So yeah, first of all, thank you all very much for coming in here this way more people than we ever would have expected Yeah, and we know it's late in the conference the last couple of days were pretty hard and we really appreciate yeah, your stamina here and See it coming holding on until the the final end Yeah, one thing before we dive in I wanted to ask real quick And on the first day keynote Chris mentioned that 58% of the participants of this just keep going were like first-time participants So can I just check again who in here is here for in the cubicle for the first time? All right, that's good. Cool. Well, thanks Yeah, and so and and two of you kind of currently on in the process of Going towards Kubernetes and considering as a productive platform for their for their workloads It's still a few. Okay. Yeah, so that's that's perfect. We this is as described an intro level talk and I hope we can share some of our experience and And things we've learned so far with you. So this is the title how to make Kubernetes rhyme with prod readiness My name is Matias. I come from Smaller or medium-sized company in Germany. We are focused on on software engineering like modern software Distributed cloud cloud native and microservices based software And I'm here with my colleague Hi, I'm Tiffany journey in and I'm way shorter. So this is kind of fun So I am a developer advocate at VMware. So Actually, I'm curious who here has ever heard of the title developer advocate before Okay Not so much but still kind of yeah, we do stuff like this as part of it. Um, yeah, so It's kind of VMware is kind of the opposite since we don't have like the consulting But we have a bunch of our own products that are used in this whole cloud native Kubernetes and a lot more space And if you still use Twitter, we have our Twitter handles at the bottom there And I think on my Twitter is my mastodon link too. So there's just there's things All right, thanks. So before we dive into the details We first of all wanted to like share with you how we came to think of Doing this talk and there's also also a bit to do with what we just said like what our working backgrounds is So as a Tiffany is working for a company that basically provides a product For running or like a form having Kubernetes production ready with all the things it should contain Whereas I'm more from a leak Technology consultancy side where we help people to get their workloads onto the cloud But also to build their their stacks and and maintain them so with that we kind of want to combine the things we've seen so far and What kind of advice we can give back to you? So in general, we're not a fan of bulleted lists. So we're gonna see probably many Kind of visualizations in those slides. I hope they make kind of sense to to the most of you So in the end, this is what it's gonna be about. So the users and the happiness of the users so the users are the lovely people here on the bottom left and We want to make them happy, of course I think most of you will want to do that too. So there's the software running in the clouds based on Kubernetes containerized modern software and We want to talk about how to enable or make that service good enough that that all the users are happy So that kind of brings to the point. What is actually production readiness? I mean, I don't think there is an official official definition But if you we try to kind of summarize it on a high level to say It's kind of the state of a system which is fully prepared and capable of running prod workloads and provides the level of service and Performance required by its users. So again kind of going back to that picture. Of course, this definition is not Like bound or scoped to to what Kubernetes does and not it's way way more than that But of course with this talk as we are in KubeCon right here We certainly want to focus on on cloud native and CNCF based technologies There's a bit more to it and I said, I don't like bulleted lists So there's I think this there's another one But that's that's gonna be it and I'm not gonna read through all of that But that's a couple of more detailed things how we would say what we would take an account to have things prod ready I think the bullet to pretty much summer summarizes pretty good. So to say it's ensured. It's reliable stable and secure That also include they includes that it performs well under expected and also unexpected conditions that it's adaptive to changes and Basically, that's whatever it takes to be up and healthy and providing the things to the end users of course that includes to be monitored and observable and So giving whoever Admin administers that the option to say what's going on currently or make some predictive analysis What might happen in the future in order to take the necessary steps for that? Right so with that I'm handing over to Tiffany All right So let's first talk a little bit about like what vanilla Kubernetes actually provides and the concept in general of prod readiness is More than just within the space of Kubernetes, but well since this is cube con We're basically nearing down the scope to both like Kubernetes and also like the cloud native Landscape CNCF type of thing as well All right, so as kind of mentioned a little bit earlier This is more of like a like more entry maybe intermediate level talk Since it's the last day of the conference I'm assuming that you have learned at least something this week related to Kubernetes if not The videos are online. So it's okay, but So basically at a super high level for anyone who is Make sure you're all awake I'm sorry. I'm gonna put that away here. I don't I don't know what it was go away At a very high level Kubernetes basically it runs and manages your container workloads because it's like hey I have this application and Well, what if I want to have a bunch of versions of that running? What if I want high availability what like how do I handle all that stuff? So Kubernetes if you are pretty unfamiliar with Kubernetes still There's a QR code that is up here It's for a blog. I wrote on getting started with Kubernetes. So Might be useful for some people in this diagram basically you can just see here's a bunch of users and a bunch of pods that the users are Creating you can see that for instance There's these cute little like little log things there because you know people definitely hold out paper nowadays for their logs Kubernetes, but by default in Kubernetes you can use kube-cuddle and do kube-cuddle get get logs if you have access to the Control plane you could go as a station to that and you could find your kube-lit logs like these logs are all there by default So as kind of like a high little level Kubernetes is a distributed platform for running connecting and logging your containerized workloads You can do things with being able to scale up for instance for your on the level of infrastructure Like it's not where you go and say hey, I'm going to create a Kubernetes cluster I'm only going to have four nodes and then later you're like, oh, no now. I need 20 I need to kill my cluster or I'm scared like you can actually just add more nodes and that is totally fine and as a result you can also Like you can scale it down as well And if you're using some of the like managed Kubernetes offerings, they make this type of thing a lot easier for you as well And in addition to being able to scale up and down the infrastructure You are able to also do that on the workload level So for instance, you could have a deployment and be like hey I want to have 20 copies of my redis application or whatever you want and Have that be highly available. You could have a bunch of nodes and then it'll distribute those across those different nodes You can do things like Hey, I'm going to have this new version of whatever. I'm running and do some sort of graceful migration There's also things like fault tolerance So for instance assuming you're not using just a plain pod where that's just going to die and well You have to start a new one yourself There will be auto restarts if you There's like how it's mentioned. There's like load balancing between the Different replicas of whatever workload you're running. There is the ability to do scaling There's the ability to do updates without actually having downtime So there's just a lot of things that you can have there So as another like summary of all of those things Some of the focus is like having high availability and resilience of your workloads. There's fault tolerance There's elasticity both of the infrastructure and of the workloads that you have as well and as well as extensibility All right, thanks. So, I mean, this is was the kind of Trying to make sure part we are on the same page here and and kind of the common awareness and understanding of what Kubernetes will do for you Looking back at the topic of production readiness You can clearly see that the the core of Kubernetes are like the the internal part which is available all the time Has is has a strong focus on that Reliability and scalability part so that kind of brings us to the to the next part of say, okay If I have like my application running in a container and I can deploy it to mini cube or like kind or whatever How far am I still away? Of getting this in into a into a productive landscape there is actually then you will see there were quite a few things missing and It was also a hard time for us to like Separate them out so we try to categorize them a little bit Even though you will later on see that a lot of the things will actually kind of overlap and interact with each other But the the five main categories where we say there are shortcomings or things that you have to certainly look into and work on If you want to make it or harden it for production is on the one side security observability on the other Network kind of in the middle infrastructure on the bottom and the workloads on the top So I'm going to tell you what I mean by all those so Yeah, if you if you run Kubernetes, of course You are responsible basically to provide the underlying hardware that it requires Tiffany I said it's it's easy to as possible to scale up and down. That's fine But still of course you need to make sure that underlying hardware is available In addition to that. Yeah, it can these can be VMs. This can be still bear metal This can be respiratory pies whatever probably not for productive workloads, but technically it can You need to provide the storage the store and and the storage classes for the for the persistent volumes so This is actually a good example of how Kubernetes works in many ways here So there are API objects for storage for example There's persistent volume claims and persistent volumes and they will pretty much work the same in every cluster But still if you want to have external storage attached This is something you need to provide and make available so that the API objects of Kubernetes can actually consume that in addition to that To be on the safe side, of course We recommend to do backups both of the cluster infrastructure itself and the workloads and Also, if you want to connect to things outside of your Kubernetes world They say some kind of managed services like databases Messaging services or legacy systems is also you to do to make those available and accessible from the workloads inside From infrastructure, we're gonna go on to network. I mean networking is also something which probably every Kubernetes user will have to deal with first of all of get of course to get the inbound traffic to the application So to make your applications accessible from external users First thing you probably there are things like ingress, which is again Kubernetes API object, which is kind of the same all that most of the time But the ingress controller for example that that implements that is something you need to define and you need to evaluate and need To make sure it's the right one for your purposes Now there is this new thing with the gateway API coming up or you can still add some kind of custom implementation for something exposing load balancer IPs and have mappings like at DNS externally The possibilities are there that the point. I'm just trying to make there is no single golden path And it's not gonna be out of the box for you. So you have to basically do that for yourself Going from External traffic to like internal traffic this may or may not also be a requirement for you for example to encrypt or make or Secure connections between workloads in the cluster or in an advanced way to do like weighted routing or Advanced I would say advanced network features. This is not a requirement everyone has but certainly people have and Kubernetes is not providing things out of the box there So you can use service meshes or something alike to put on top to basically get there in the end You want traffic control so defining network policies encrypting or as I said advanced routing From network next part was about observability So, yeah, this was also one of the hot topics. I think on this cube con I mean as Tiffany said before Kubernetes provides basic logging and if you have a metric server You can also get of basic metrics from from your from your nodes and from your pods But that's probably not what's gonna make you happy all in total So what Kubernetes is kind of missing here as well is like a tool stack where you actually persist your information that you're from your monitoring something to visualize something to evaluate and Kubernetes does not go beyond locks. So everything that comes into metrics and traces You will have to instrument and make your workload adaptive to that and make sure it's gonna be routed somewhere Where you connect basically look into that All right, so From I mean, of course, we can only scratch the surface here I'm pretty sure that there are many more things But we just tried to summarize that as we only have a half an hour of time so security is next and Of course, this would certainly be able to fill not only one but many talks on its own as well So a couple of things you need to make sure you handle there is of course to provide the right people the right access To the various resources. I mean for example in most of our productive scenarios or pretty much all of them We don't give a production access on a cube CTL API level to any users We sometimes do that on a on a time-based or ticket-based thing So we can really go sure somebody needs to go in there for like getting a log for a certain time period But in general, we just cut that off. So the right our back policies service accounts API access limitation On namespace isolation depending on the way how you structure your namespaces or if you use multiple clusters For pot security, these are all things which which are very important and probably not there's probably even more to that But we're gonna leave it with that or Just should I add something? I mean there there's also stuff like dealing with certificates or like OIDC tokens There's also things with like some sorts of secrets manager So that way, you know accidentally do something like committing your secrets up to github because it happens and I may have posted secrets at some point Yeah, please don't do that, but I guess you knew it already now Some something which is arguably a part of Kubernetes or not are other workloads I mean in the end the your consuming users of your application will probably not care If wherever they run and what which program language they will be written in and how containerized they are But in general the production readiness of your overall system is of course the combination of the runtime and the workloads on top and and of course that means If you have if you like harden your cluster in the best possible way and still fail on your on your workload aspects That's probably not going to be a great thing so Question is of course then what can you do on the workload side to go in the same direction and make them stable secure observable and so on So I hope this is a visible well I mean, this is basically more like a software engineering best practice than actually looking too much into Kubernetes, but Of course, we always recommend to automate all the steps and may and I get like in a repeatable continuous way So you that that you have a chain from from source code up until your productive runtime Where there are basically no manual steps involved where you can do that take the Compilation the testing the packaging containerization and then later on push out to the to the cluster and of course You should make one of this secure as well. So basically and encrypt your Your images make sure you have safe base images or use technologies like build packs that take the thing things away from you To basically say, okay, this we can kind of call this a git sec ops workflow where all the things are coming from Now this is the summary kind of all those shortcomings and yeah, this slide is intended to look as chaotic because this these are all the things and Potentially more that you have to worry about in order to make your your cluster in a way that you can say, okay I'm feeling safe to deploy things to the world and and I'm not worried about things going wrong so With this what's what can you do then? I mean, how can you approach? There is again no golden path But just being aware of the things you actually have to do you can start approaching that that that problem scenario So some checklist might help. I mean this checklist has no like Aspect of being all the way complete. It's probably because each of the checklists will be different You will have different workloads different client scenarios and so on but just going over it and say, okay Do I have I covered all those things? Are they working? Well, have I then tested them thoroughly? It's definitely a thing to approach them So while this was all completely conceptual will now look a bit more into actually How can you approach this with technology from like the the CNCF world? Okay, so who here has been in like the booth area during this conference That is way less than I expected. Okay, sure The people have you can probably see that there is just so many booths the entire floor is Tons of different companies tons of different project booths, etc That kind of gives you a little bit of an idea of like how vast the cloud native slash Kubernetes landscape basically is This lovely image if you were able to read any one thing on here Can I like get your vision because I can't There's just so much stuff that isn't there like someone posted a little bit earlier that in like 2017 There was only I think like seven projects that were part of the CNCF and this is what we're at now. It's a lot So obviously I can't I don't know about every single one of these things I don't think that's possible at least it's not possible for me maybe someone here knows about all of them and wow you rock but What we're going to try to do next is to for all of those categories that we had just gone through to list a few open-source products that we thought either are things that are like Graduated incubating sandbox or tools that we may have specifically had some interaction with it doesn't mean that anything else Is any less valid they totally are but I can't talk about those ones yet all right, so First on infrastructure, so there is cluster API, which is this cute little like turtles all the way down thing going on There's also Valero. So these two on the left are specifically focused on kubernetes So cluster API you do things you have an existing kubernetes cluster you use CRDs to be able to Spin up new clusters and deal with managing and things with that and then there's Valero So that's like backing up the workloads that you have it also backs up your persistent volumes Then on the other side of things a little bit There's Terraform cross plane and Pulumi. So they're big their infrastructure as code And you can use it to create a bunch of different resources, which can be kubernetes infrastructure as well All right, so networking so we have Istio and linker D Which are specifically on the side of having service mesh I mean they're more than just networking as we were kind of saying a bunch of these things kind of like overlap into different Categories so that also falls in under security and observability as well There is also psyllium which is based on eBPF So basically instead of like with And linker D where you end up having a second Container that is running in your every single one of your pods This actually is interacting on like the node level so it can do things like service mesh You can also do things like observability, etc there's also and Tria and that implements the CNI or container network interface and Also the kubernetes network policy, so it helps with network connectivity and security for your pod workloads For observability I feel like a lot of people in general have probably seen a lot of Prometheus and Grafana kind of being like two things together So you have Prometheus where you have a bunch of metrics and then Grafana is there for you to be able to visualize all That it can be kind of chaotic for some people such as myself to look at just like here's a ton of numbers inside Prometheus, but like I want to actually see what does that look like how has that changed and be able to do things with it Then there's keali, which is for observability on service meshes, which is kind of relevant since we just mentioned service meshes There's open telemetry, so that's kind of a standard for like things with integration layers for like logs metrics traces There's also Yeager, which is for distributed tracing. There's fluent D which is also for logging It's quite a bit. Yeah, it just keeps going so security So there's a open policy agent or OPA as you can tell there's a lot of acronyms or a lot of long words here So that one and Coverno are for policy-based control. There's ser manager, which that one is very self-explanatory It deals with managing certificates We have key cloak so for identity access and management, which is I am There's spiffy and there's also spire just kind of ran out of room But spiffy spire kind of go hand-in-hand and there for an identity control plant across infrastructure there's also in toto and That is for like supply chain integrity So like if you think back to that get sec ops slide where I had all those little locks at the bottom of each path along the Like starting from your code to building all of those things that you need to worry about hardening your security all the way along the chain and That includes making sure that you have some sort of tools that can help you go along with doing that Additionally, then there are the workloads because yeah, you have a production ready Kubernetes cluster But if you're not running any workloads on it, it really doesn't matter. No one's using your things so Who here has dealt with YAML in Kubernetes? All right cool a lot of you. Okay. There's a lot of YAML I mean sometimes you can get by with doing like some kubectl things But overall there's gonna be a lot of YAML Especially if you start doing once you're at the point of dealing with CICD and so there are tools that can help you with that So things there's like Helm. There's a tool in the Carvel tool suite That's YTT that basically instead of doing a bunch of copy pasting of your YAML and changing a few things You can have a few consistent ones and have like pull-in variables from other files and just do a bunch of different things with that Carvel also has a bunch of other tools in there for being able to like different ways of running your applications Things like cap controller where I can deal with like say you have stuff They're pushing to GitHub and be able to update things based on that and there's a bunch of other things there There's Harbor and I mean if you don't have a container image stored somewhere you don't have an application So basically you need Harbor for that and Harbor also Falls a bit into the security side too since it has image scanning and then we also have on the CD or continuous deployment side so like on the get-off stuff we have Flux and Argo and Then there's also build packs So like perhaps you're very familiar with using Docker files to go and be like hey I want to do all these things to create my container image whereas with build packs. It's here's my Java code Here's my go code. Here's my whichever supported code make me a container image. I don't want to write a docker file So I guess the question is like alright Now what do we do? Like we have all of this stuff But we need to figure out things of like how where are we running and how are we doing that so? In 2019 which honestly feels kind of like quite a long time ago now Um Kelsey basically was saying that it is your responsibility to purchase Staff patch scale and upgrade so that is a lot of stuff that you have to do out if you want to do all of that You need to make sure all your versions and everything are in sync because if they don't work together Then everything is just going to crash and burn So we kind of this isn't like the one ultimate way of separating these things out This is kind of our way of separating these things out There's little dot dots dots because there's obviously paths that are in between So on the far left side here, I don't even know if you can see my laser, but there is one and yeah that side So that whole section is basically saying you are managing all of these things so everything from the infrastructure the hardware Like hardware for that like you have your own data center and you're dealing with all that you're managing kubernetes You're managing the security in the network the observability like and then on top of that also your apps and your workloads Then there is this concept of basically managed so instead of like you still have to deal with the apps the workloads and you Stop to do the security networking visibility by yourself But the infrastructure the hardware and kubernetes is managed by some sort of provider So for instance like GKE or EKS or AKS or a bunch of the other things where they're handling those things for you Then we just made this term called fully managed There's a little star there because I mean again, it's not some official name But basically it's on top of that It's adding that layer for the security network and visibility Which is basically all those things that we've kind of been talking about this entire talk that are fitting in right there as well That can be managed with things So this is just like an example from Tanzu kubernetes grid um basically showing you a bunch of the open source projects that they specifically picked to fill those voids in What is needed to be production ready with kubernetes like you probably recognize almost I think only Calico wasn't on another slide or something, but like most all of these were on that So it's just like a bunch of projects working together to be able to come to some sort of endpoint and that's gonna be run either on cloud or on-prem All right, so I'm taking over here real quick just for this one slide Where you can see another kind of stack of similar components being grouped together in in a cluster So we from Novatek we provide also training on kubernetes for our clients where we have an own implementation So we're not building a product We basically started building the cluster from scratch not exactly from scratch We used to manage cluster deployed by a terraform on ashore and assembled all those projects inside to make them part of the training And yeah, I know it doesn't make sense to run Istio and Linkety in the same cluster Just yeah, this is certainly for training purposes But then in the end what I'm the point I'm trying to make is that this definitely gives us quite a bit of a hard time To keep all the ways in sync I mean sometimes the cluster needs to get updated from the provider Sometimes the projects get updated and we always need to validate our is all the entire matrix of the of the projects still working together well and This is exactly what I want to manage product project is basically trying to solve for you. So I'm gonna give back Okay, so there's a couple choices that you stop to make So there's do I want to be on the cloud or do I want to be on-prem? So for instance, if you have like a ton of bare metal sitting around you just have all these servers Then you probably won't end up going to on-prem unless you just have buckets of money or something If you have some sort of sensitive apps, so say something like military intelligence medical Then there's the question of can is there a cloud in my country? That will allow me to actually run these types of workloads on them if no Then you're having to do it on-prem and if yes on the cloud and pretty much every other scenario We're suggesting that you go and run it on the cloud Then there's the concept of do I want to deal with managed or self-hosted so For the most part if you're on-prem you probably end up having to just go down the route of self-hosted if you have a super huge Cluster and there's not enough support from any of the providers then same direction If you need to use the newest kubernetes features or you want to be able to like you want to use the latest kubernetes version Since most providers are tiny bit behind Or if you want to be able to enable some like beta or alpha things Same thing and if for some reason you tried it really really hard and tried all of them and nothing seems to work You fall into that last bucket, but otherwise try managed so like quote from Jerome Pedazzoni is the fastest easiest and cheapest way to run your kubernetes cluster is to get someone else to do it for you so Just a suggestion there All right, so yeah again We probably should highlight Jerome a little bit more because he was also he gave the name to our talk He was actually the creator of that title. So thanks again for your help not only with a title but all the video feedback and So I'm trying to bring this to an end with the second bulleted list slide that we have I mean In the end why we're doing this is just basically to to show you and indicate It will take quite a bit more than just putting your application a container and writing some yaml files to deploy that The way you approach it that there are various options I mean and and I'm whenever start diplomatic here and say in the end there is no right or wrong on any of these approaches It's more about your decision Where you want to invest the time and money and there can be multiple drivers for either side of the decision I mean sometimes it can be definitely desired that you want to maintain the stack yourself that certainly means You need to invest in the skill of the people that doing that But in turn you have that skill in-house which can of course be a valuable thing in other cases It might be that you say yeah, I don't need all that I I just want to focus on deploying my applications fast and I want all this management be done by somebody else Then you go for the for the managed solution in that case you pay the price to the service provider and this is something that everybody has to decide I'm for themselves given under the Like restrictions or guidelines that that Tiffany had just said In general if you can basically speak of a general rule what we always would suggest From our experience to say go with the highest abstraction possible I mean in the end don't try to solve problems again that somebody else has already solved So maybe somebody has already figured out which kind of combinations from security Observability networking whatever tools and what it will actually work So you don't have to redo that over and over and and that's what they what they offer as a service and The more of course you already built on it Battleproof or well-tested platform the more enables you to spend the money and the time that you have in Basically your core value, which is supposedly and that's I might be blurred there because I'm coming from like a Software engineering background, but it's the value is like the application logic of your applications and not the configuration of your infrastructure So in the end if there is a managed solution that suits your need I would recommend to go for it if you wanted to set yourself Also try and reach out to people that can help you with that because this landscape is changing the technology is constantly refreshing So my people are there are people out there that provide training that provide enablement provide their insights That can certainly help you just to save some time and I think we are on the edge So this is if you want to you can certainly give us feedback on that presentation again If a big apologies if we missed some one or the other technologies that you would have liked to see on one of those pages This has no guarantee of completion whatsoever It's mostly a few things that we have already worked within the past Or like from from from products that we know but of course there might be many out there Which do this things in the same or better ways? So is something missing here doesn't certainly mean we don't think it's it's great I just wanted to make that sure and If you have any further questions again feel free to connect to us You will find us on LinkedIn under our names or these are Twitter handles and with that I think we would like to say Thanks for listening


And Lebanon's Hezbollah chief, Said Hassan Nasrallah, said on Tuesday any aggression against Jerusalem or its holy sites would mean regional war. Nasrallah's comments in a televised speech were his first since the ceasefire ended the fiercest fight in years between Israel and Gaza-based Islamist militant group Hamas. The Israel Hamas hostilities were set off on May 10 in part by Israeli police raids on the Alaska Mosque compounding Jerusalem's old city and clashes with Palestinians during the Muslim Holy Month of Ramadan. Nasrallah said all the resistance movements could not sit back and watch if holy sites were in danger. The Iranian-backed Lebanese group is a staunch opponent of Israel and Nasrallah's speech marked the commemoration of Israel's withdrawal from southern Lebanon in 2000. Nasrallah, who also said the fighting showed Hamas had greatly advanced its rocket capabilities, which he said was a big military achievement. Be sure to hit the bell button so you get notified about fresh news updates.


This video will talk about the distance formula. This is our last video of the semester. Can you believe it? So we have the distance formula that says that d is equal to x2 minus x1 quantity squared plus y2 minus y1 quantity squared. And it's based on the idea that we have these two points x1, y1, and x2, y2. And remember the Pythagorean theorem, if we had a and b here, and we could say then that this length here would be the difference of my x's. And this is my y direction, so that's the difference of my y's. And let's just practice simplifying and then we'll work them in there. So the square root of 8 minus 5 would be 3 squared plus 5 minus 1 would be 4 and then squared. The square root of 9 plus 16, that ends up being the square root of 25. So the distance is 5 from that formula. Now let's use some extra points. This point right here, a is going to be 0, 0. And b is going to be the point 4, 3. It does not matter which is x1 and x2 and which is y1 and y2. So I typically use my first one as x1 and my second point is my 2's. So d is equal to the square root of the difference of my x's squared plus the difference of my y's squared. So my ax1 would be 0 or x2. It doesn't really matter which one and 4. And it doesn't even matter which one we start with. We just have to make sure that we're subtracting x's and subtracting y's because when you're square, the sign doesn't make any difference. And negative squared is still a positive. So this gives me negative 4 squared plus negative 3 squared. Negative 4 squared is 16 and negative 3 squared is 9. So again we're left with the square root of 25 and that's equal to 5. It just so happened that I had negatives this time but when I square them I still get 16 and 9. So what is the distance between these two points? Well let's try it. And we want the difference of the x's squared plus the difference of the y's squared.  So negative 2 minus a negative 1 and negative 4 minus a negative 10. Didn't leave myself a whole lot of room there. So this will be square root of negative 2 plus a positive 1 is going to be negative 1 squared. And negative 4 minus a negative 10 will be plus 10 or 6 squared. This gives me 1 plus 36. I didn't really need my parentheses. Which will give me the square root of 37 and it's not a perfect square so we can just say the square root of 37. Right, one more. Final problem of the semester. Distance is equal to, and I've been taking the first one so just to be different I'm going to take the last term or last ordered pair and do it first. So 20 minus my 10 and 8 minus and then I have a negative 7 in here so I'll put it in parentheses. Equal to the square root of 20 minus 10 will be 10 that I have to square. And 8 plus 7 will be 15 which I'm going to have to square. And then this gives me the square root of 100 plus and I think I know what that is but I want to double check that I'm doing it right. So 15 carat 2 is 225. And if I add those I get 325 which I do not believe is a perfect square but again we could double check that. Second x squared 325 if it ends up a decimal then we know it wasn't a perfect square. So we are left with the square root of 325.


What's going on guys? Welcome to a brand new movie review. Today I'm discussing searching. Searching is a brand new thriller starring John Chow and Deborah Messing and it's about a father who daughter goes missing and on this journey he gets Deborah Messing who's a detective who's on board with this case and he starts to delve deep into wondering where did his daughter go did she run away did she disappear did someone grab her and as he delves deeper into going through her computer he starts to find some mysterious elements and some stuff that might point him in the right direction. From that concept searching is one of those films that does take place on the whole computer screen. Now we've seen this with India unfriended franchise with the first and the second film but with Pareto unfriended searching uses us in a very different manner in a manner that feels like it's necessary for the story. When I say necessary this film the way it portrays itself onto a computer screen feels like you're watching something and makes you forget that you're watching a film in a sense but more like you're watching a story going on on social media or going on within your computer or on your local news where you're watching it and you're wondering how's the story gonna end it can I put any clues together and whatnot because there are clues throughout the whole entire film that the director Igneesh wanted a debut director who's done some short films and whatnot but this is his first feature film does such a fantastic job layering out all these little small clues that once the film ends you go back and you start thinking you're like oh my god like everything was right in front of me the whole entire time it's all pieced throughout it because it's on the screen and it keeps you riveted from beginning to end the whole entire time you're on the edge of your seat wondering what's going to go trying to guess along John Chow's character trying to be with him and understand where is he going through and you understand and feel his emotions within here and as you're going through this you're totally sitting there like okay is this going to be happening is this what's going to happen is this what's going to happen and you're totally guessing along just as you are within the father's footsteps the whole way through you're in his footsteps because you're not there's no way that you can guess ahead to what's going on you might have predictions but as you're getting those pain predictions so is he and this is one of the first films one of the first mysteries in a while that have kept me on the edge of my seat and to the point where if I think something's gonna happen the film's like oh you think it's gonna happen nope hard left let's go around the corner go around the block and let me tell you're not even close to what's going to be going on and what the story is going to unravel next I love when films do that I love when a film can keep me on the edge of my seat like that and keep me guessing till the very end and that when the mystery unravels I can think back and go oh my god I this all makes sense it doesn't feel like something that's just thrown in there and was such a fantastic conclusion at the end searching seriously becomes one of the best mystery stories told in a very long time and a lot of that goes to the first time director agnish but also the performances in here john chow gives one of the best performances of the year probably the best performance of his career hands down he was also in columbus a very underrated film he was fantastic in there but man the guy comes to emotional powerhouse stuff within this movie where it almost makes you tear up of how good he is like this is seriously one of the best performances of the year everyone else in here is really good as well I think deborah messing is also another actress to who does a fantastic job in this film again bringing those layers bringing those emotions to her character and making her feel like a real person everyone felt like in here like a real person and again the sense that this film brings you is that totally forget that you're watching a movie but in the end it feels like something that really just happened and that you just embarked on this quest with this father embarking on watching it from news watching him from social media and that is superb and so I love searching I think searching is easily one of the best films of this year for cons wise I do think it's a little bit slow in the pacing within the beginning of the film but as the film starts to progress it feels like a boulder that's just going downhill and as it just keeps going downhill it keeps going faster and faster and faster till it just hits right at the end great performances and seriously john chow giving one of the best performances of his career a great directorial debut from agnish and seriously one of the top notch editing for any type of film to make the computer screen not feel like a gimmick but something that was essential for the story searching is one of the best films of this year a film that you guys should not miss look out for a theater I cannot praise this film enough go and see searching all that said I'm going to give searching an a and this is easy one of my favorite films of this year my friend griffin from members the movie calls us the gong girl of this year and I agree with him really guys go search out searching what do you guys think about searching have you guys seen the trailers for this or you could treat to see it comment down below and tell me what your guys's thoughts are on the film and of course if you guys are new here hit up sandwich on films also down below because right down there you guys can get into advanced movie scenes like searching check out movie news and also some movie reviews by me and maybe some other special people out there in the world until next time stay class


Yeah! Perfect! Slava, Ukraine! One, two, three! Slava, Ukraine! One more time! One, two, three! Slava, Ukraine! One, two, three! Yeah! Perfect!


We're broadcasting live once again from three different parts of the world with our Transcontinental Triumvirate Triangle back to our Honolulu, Hawaii with Bishop Museum Historian and Archivist, Yuta Soto Brown, hi to Soto. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Think Tech. And we also have with us again our mid-century modern master, Ron Lindgren in Long Beach, California, hi, Ron. Hi, happy to be here again. Good to have you and myself when you wish so back in Munich or near Munich, Germany. And that gets us to the first slide. This happens to be the volume two of our show being called Kakaako Cool versus Cool with C. And the context, the global geopolitical context we're talking about is very complex. So, but let's still give it a try with a slide here. Last week, we have been saying we here in Munich have the world's security conference coming up and that happened. The picture number four at the top right is what we took of our US Embassy. We drove by, we were able to drive by, although we're some traffic detours you can see here. And we will report more on that one when we get back to our automotive and architecture comparison. So this is a very interesting embassy and tune in again when we talk about that one, interesting details about it. But what in the world does this have to do with the built environment at all? A lot we can tell you because there's a couple of your guys weekly German learning lessons in here, the one at the very middle center to the left is you can probably figure it says Putin's threatening potential with natural gas has evaporated. That ever since has been related because people say you Americans and I'm putting my American citizenship on the side and addressing you too as born Americans who had saved us ones. You save us again for sure through the end of this winter which by the way is almost over unless they related it, it's gonna be really cold again then we're already in trouble this winter. But if we don't get off the fossil then we're in deep trouble as the prognosis to say in the next couple of winters because we and tempered and Ron you come from American tempered continental from the Midwest which is my home away from home and you just sort of have been living on the East coast so we all know what cold is. So in this tempered and here in Germany we rely 50% of the natural gas comes from Russia and that is keeping us in dependency and currently getting us into big trouble. Big trouble is also one of the photographs from the conference at a dinner. It was predominantly a white old male and there were almost no female representatives in attendance and some of the old white male are particularly problematic as being very sympathetic with Taran Putin. Unfortunately, we don't wanna give him more attention and necessary but former president Donald Trump has his own social networking channel and was cheering Putin for what he's doing not any better on my side he's post former German president slash Bundeskanzler Hamilton Schroeder which we see on slide six, image six down there is budding up with Putin and that also happened in architecture. We were talking Wolf Pritz from Coop Himmelblau as one of the articles said is a poser for Putin or being accused of and he also left the European Union with a very questionable symbol which is the high rise tower of the European central bank that we see up there in the middle top on number three which is a fossil formalist high rise. A regardless and this is gonna make a turn to a positive angle. We have a few powerful women in the profession one is just above that picture here who is another president the president of the European Commission Oso La Fonda line and we have the equivalent on the American side because not Joe Biden was visiting us here over the weekend but it was his vice president Kamala Harris. So with that, although the two bottom show quotes also didn't end on a positive note because when you think and paradise everything is more paradissel also the energy problem but we had to find out that the recent high rises as this IO that claims itself to make wind visible we said with a joint venture of glass bohan and triple pane jealousy systems it would have literally been that rather than figuratively saying that or this Ali which you just sort of told us is named after a tree. They both have little nothing to do with the natural environment of that sort and kind but continuing that positive female feminine angle we wanna go to the next slide because we wanna revisit what we have already been looking into so two guys maybe problematic now a third guy joining maybe even more problematic looking back into something very promising because we also have a female architect finally joining us again because Ubisoft reminded us there has already been one and we've been talking please reiterate that but then Ron you please tell us about your experiences of over half of a century and more about the discrimination in our profession and discipline. Yeah I'm happy after all of the sort of bad news that we were discussing with the first slide to counter that slightly with the fact that there was some good news in Hawaii and that the Hawaiians are being graced by a major architectural project by a woman who in fact formed and operates her own firm. When Genie Gang named her firm the Genie Gang Studio it was a very dramatic and very confident announcement that a very distinctive and talented new architect had arrived on the scene. We're looking at a high rise from near the ground looking up the face of a high rise building that's newly complete that she has designed and she's designed it not partly I think in terms of having to overcome sort of sexist assumptions by men that have always pestered the profession and then and now. When I talk about then when I got my first class in 1959 as a freshman at the University of Illinois my architectural class was over 900 students of which only two were women. Five years later when the program ended it wasn't so surprising that the hardy class of 46 who had left included the two women. But women in architecture are just I having so many things to overcome and despite the fact that about 50% of women students in architecture are now doing their thing and the fact that a little over 30% of teachers part-time or full-time in architectural teaching are also now women. That sounds like an improvement from my bad old days but consider the fact that of the 116,000 or so licensed architects in the United States only 17% of them are women. So why are women sticking with the profession sticking with the industry? Again, it's the same old male assumptions sexist assumptions, macho assumptions. First of all, you don't hire a woman because she's going to be married and she'll be leaving very quickly. She probably doesn't even have the talent of men. Some men who I've talked to have said that very plainly but they considered women inferior as creative beings which is rather astonishing. And so what happens is and probably the one I ran across most as the practicing architecture on site was these same men had a real problem with any women being on the job site. They felt that women couldn't stand up to the rigors of maintaining authority on a job site amongst all male contractors and subcontractors. And so what's the result? Unequal pay, unequal opportunities and the old school form of architecture still hangs on but it is dying away much too slowly however. Yeah, but extending that optimistic view from within education I can confirm what you said as a positive trend in both quantitatively and qualitatively the women are on the rise in my current studio. You guys be happy about it. The woman in our current studio are out waiting us guys. So that's very weird and that's good to see. So that being said again, but we still wanna be fair and not be prejudiced in one way or the other. So we wanna now basically go to the project and try to be as fair as we can, although we're guys and we're talking about one of our female colleagues here and this picture here we took to probably present the building in its best way that it really wants to come across as it prides itself to be inspired by sugarcane and in this position, but mainly from this position you can really see this sort of borrowing from the organic nature of vegetation. But when we go to the next slide this is an reiteration of the initial show we did about two and a half years ago. And on the top left, we wanna recall that architects when Genie was first showing up with a project called the Aquatow, which we see at the top right people were saying, well, this is so refreshing. It's the first time ever since Marina City which is by Bertrand Goldberg, which is Bertrand is a student of me's and he was going up against basically his mentor who had started out organic before he was kicked out by HIPAA and luckily found a new home within the United States. But in the United States, he basically went foxy. And so Bertrand was basically going up against that as well as the other mentees and disciples of me's chipperade and partner who dig lead point tower. These are two organic towers. But Marina City is an example also of something we've been talking about. We will continue to talk about which developers always pride themselves of mixed use. Marina City is a prime example of that more than most of the towers which just have a couple of stores at the bottom and then just dwelling above.  So it's a much better example. That's however, a half of a century, 50 years, young or old. And you were alluding to again, alluding to nature that they nicknamed the corn cups. And we're saying, you know, people can clearly understand why, but we're not trying to distinguish between form and perform. And I'm saying you, Ron and I and you, just so we've lived in the cold and we know that probably in the summertime, you prefer to have a North or a South unit in this universally illanized towers. But in the wintertime, I would choose any of them but the North one because it's keeping me warm. So energy plays a big role in it. And that is one of the observations that at the bottom left is when I was still in the prairie in Nebraska teaching and Chicago was my hub in and out, I was suspicious and afraid that I didn't see something and it's not there. And when I finally got the chance to tour Genie's office for the emerging generation, we had one German staff member who I pulled aside and he confirmed, he said, we didn't do this. And this is basically that would spin around in Europe forever and made it up to Canada, which is the thermal disconnection of the structurally connected lanais and they didn't do that. And that way it kind of causes what we can call our reverse radiation, because all that cold in this current season is just creeping into the tower. And that's obviously something that is bad and it's not quite as bad in the tropics but still in these days, again, if the Ukraine problem teaches us something, we should get off the fossil everywhere no matter what and kind of regain our independence and that way, you know, make it way easier to get along with each other in the world. And but what you were saying Ron, at least the project the Aqua Tower already had lanais and so has the Koula and so has, you know, it may be inspired and informed the most recent high rise condominium that we sort of quote at the bottom right, which seems to have some analogies to the project. So with that, let's jump to the next slide. And here again, we see a show quoting at the top right. Do we have the, yeah, at the top right, we will see that rigid form with a rebar sticking through that you better use for your lanais and having it from the disconnected. We don't see this in the Koula either. We didn't have it in the Aqua, which was bad. And here we don't need it as badly as in Chicago, but still you should do it and it hasn't been done. So that's something to definitely improve. And now we want to return to aesthetics and if we can go back to the, no, we don't need to go back and go to the next slide, move on to the next slide. Because I want to quickly talk about the top right chokehold and the middle image in there, which I took when my buddy Dan Kubrick told, took me to his, at that point, new construction site some property about a decade ago. This is when the Aqua Tower was going up and his building was going up, which is 600 North Fairbury with his boss, Hal Moudian. I had that chance to take that picture from frontal, like as an elevation and there is no Aqua to be seen. So this sort of image of something natural, might it be water, as in case in the Aqua Tower, might it be shuriken, as in the case of the Koula? It really depends on the perspective and the position you look at the building, right? And I'll leave it up to you, Ron, to judge this view that we took. Yeah, I was going to say that there is a slight move in an architecture called biomorphic architecture, where architects are growing as far as having some of the architectural forms sort of mimic plant growth, or even if it's just a regular square framed tower, it might be completely smothered, as you see in some great examples in Italy now of vertical gardens in the sky. But Genie Gang claimed that what we're seeing here visually represents a number of shurikane stalks next to each other. And I find that sort of justification for this look rather dubious. On the other hand, however, any time an architect makes an effort to enliven a building with shadow, which will arise, and with handsome proportions so that there's a gray snow against the urban sky. I always applaud that, and she's trying here. But again, as DeSoto has been telling us, there aren't any examples of shurikane in Hawaii anymore, but that's the day that it's coming down. And shurikane is like bamboo. It doesn't twist, it's straight, and it also sort of rather unceremoniously cut off against the sky, kind of just brutally cut off against the sky. So again, the justification that it is shurikane, I think might be a little bit stretching the point. Someone looking at it from a distance, I don't think would make that connection in their own mind, even native Hawaiians. But again, kudos for a building that is interesting and up close and looking up the face of it over your shoulder, Martin. It is an interesting residential tower. Yeah, and move on to the next slide. In all fairness, this was basically captured about four months ago or so. So at this point, it's probably completed, or very close to being completed. But DeSoto, you had a good point about not minding effect, trying to make a bold statement, right? Yeah, exactly. And I think Ron just said everything that I agree with. Making something that isn't just a plain rectilinear box is something that I admire as well. And going to the extent of doing something different is also very good. However, I would also point out, as I said earlier, to go to the difficulty of forming plywood, which is flat and rectilinear into curving forms to create these undulating surfaces is a big deal in building a building. And you normally wouldn't go to that trouble in that extent and that expense. But what we do note, and this is something we're probably gonna get into as soon as we can, is, is this performative? Is it just decorative or does it actually do something? And we will, I won't get into that yet because that's something else we're gonna do a duration. Yeah, and performance happens on multiple levels, right? One of the, we were having, you know, threats of men and woman kind on many levels. And one is on social equity and affordability, right? And having to cut glass into different forms and pieces as it had to be done here to follow the curving is also very, very large effort and is increasing the cost, right? So on that performative side, questionable. And on a thermal performance side, there's this interesting pattern here that's not painted on, that's a good thing, that's what many do, but it's actually these kind of white, lintel, shaped, you know, things are basically shadows cast, but look at them. And when we go to the next slide, in detail, what they are, and so little ironic that this is basically the sort of Southwest elevation, when that really brutal, harsh, yet beautiful sunset sun comes, this is the situation around sort of everything sort of past midday. And you see that these extravagant sort of fins, warping fins are basically self-shading themselves, which is good thing, but they're primarily shading the lanai, which is easy breezy anyways, while they, on the other hand, leave what's that fixed glazing panel next to the lanai absolutely brutally uncovered. And then there is this, at least there's an operable part of it, but that is not sufficient to basically cool your space, you know, sufficiently, as one would need to. And go to the next slide. The several show quotes up there where we were looking into how you mitigate the sun with vertical louvers, with breeze delays. There's so many great examples in the mid-century modern mastery of architecture that you know so well because you practice it wrong, that is there. So we're not redesigning the building for a genie game, who are we? But we just throw out, you know, if nature wouldn't have just been a buzzword that you give, that you name the building after, but you would have taken it more seriously, then look at what's right next to you is the lease of the palm tree that is louvered. And having something like that is it be the outer fenestration of these glass panels being directed so that the sun wouldn't get in, wouldn't heat up the glass, and it would still keep the view and light, you would have gotten much closer to nature than just, you know, pretending it sort of name-wise. Right? Yes. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. So go to the next slide. Us always in our easy breezy PI mobile here once the mumu is off that while it's sitting with you, the solo it has it on, but we're gonna take it off soon. And so when we look back at the building there, again, we're seeing this, you know, especially towards the ocean, you're seeing that the glass gets bigger and bigger and bigger and gets buildable. The next slide, once you drive away, you see the building in its context around the other recent hard use high rises here that we've all been looking into and observing them and assessing them. And next slide, once you drive by the building, you more clearly see this very front end that is Prime Ocean View 1A, as real estate people call that. But it's again, it's on the expense of that, these corner units which have what you call butt joints. So it's an all glass joint that really do materializes it. So from the inside out of the view, it's beautiful, but talking energy and crisis and fighting, basically endangering the world peace because of fossil fuel, which we are having closer as ever. I mean, again, in Europe, we had things to you guys when you helped us out last time when we had, we were in peace, right? And that's been like, what, 70, 80 years. This is the first time. And then once again, it's over fossil fuel. It's so bad. So we should take any effort to avoid that and make buildings that don't get us into this trouble. Talking back then, next slide, we got these modern masters impersonated by Huron and then also by buildings of this era. And this is Yamasaki with Alfred Yi, 1315 Alamoana Boulevard that is so carefully calibrated in its fenestration that over the turn of the day, hardly any sun is hitting the glass. And that's after all what nature does, right? That's how talking performance. That's how plants are engineered because otherwise they would die, right? They do this naturally. And we just throw this out as a hypothesis. Maybe that's why we think nature is so beautiful because it's so perfect, be basically engineered in a biochlamatic way. And we just wish architecture would do this more. And probably our concluding slide for today before we pick it up next week is the next one. And the final one, starting at the bottom, this is what we took as panoramic views in walking along the beach of Waikiki. The bottom picture basically shows to the right, the Trump Tower and to the left, the Waikiki in which is one of the recent timeshare towers. They're both, believe it or not, right as far as orientation because they run Malcom and Makai, but they're wrong in fenestration in two different ways.  But how long does it take to have the heat of the sun transfer through and radiate back in? So these are bad examples as far as fenestration. But I bet you that the middle role here is what Genie wanted to be part of that gang. So Genie gang, Genie gang wanted to be part of this gang of the best practices starting from the right, the Rainbow Tower, maybe not so much, but for sure the Lagoon Tower by Edwin Bauer, then the Ilikai by John Graham. Also John Graham, our favorite Alamwana building with his Lovered Feathers, the 1315 Alamwana Boulevard. And then by you guys, Ron, the Harbor Square, right? These are best practices that Genie really seems to wanting to be buddy with. And again, how much she was successful or what else we could recommend maybe to to approve then we will pick up from today next week and we leave you for this. And until then, please stay very easy breezy and breezily easy and that way safe. Bye. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.


Hello, my name is Victoria Riles and I'm the Animal Services Superintendent for the City of Columbia. I want to thank you for tuning in today as we highlight some of our programs here at Columbia Animal Services and introduce a few of our life-saving team members. We hope you enjoy this short segment and find out how you too can be a part of life-saving. Columbia Animal Services has a rescue program since 2006 and we have sent over 18,000 animals to our local and national rescue partners. Rescue is very important to our shelter. It helps animals have a greater chance of finding a home with our rescue partners as well as finding a happy and loving place to live, not only in the local area but also nationally. Together we have created a no-kill community, it's something we are working towards. Becoming a rescue partner is very easy. You can submit your 501c3 through rescue at columbiasc.gov. Columbia Animal Services is in communication with over 150 rescue organizations weekly. Some of these rescues help with our life-saving efforts for animals that would not be able to find homes otherwise, mostly our medical cases. Like Treyal who came to us with an unknown leg injury, one of our rescue partners took him in to help save his life and he is getting the medical help that he needs. We are always looking for volunteers to help with our rescue efforts whether it's transport or coming in to do pictures. There's lots of opportunities with volunteering. If you have any interest in becoming a volunteer or a rescue partner please email us at rescue at columbiasc.gov and if you have any questions you can email as well. Thank you. There you have it. Thank you for listening to details about our rescue organization at Columbia Animal Services. We'd also like to thank our rescue partners, volunteers in the community in general who will assist us with this life-saving effort. Thank you again for tuning in and learning what we're doing over here at Columbia Animal Services. We'd love to have you be a part of any of our programs whether it be foster, volunteer, rescue or engagement on a daily basis. Please reach out to us via our social media platforms on Facebook, Columbia Animal Services and Instagram, Columbia Animal Services to find out what's going on and how you can be a part of the fun.


Go button and then they're halfway into the first question before it actually connects There we go Nope Hello punk, would you haul her at our speaker ups channel saying we're going live? Gotcha. Thank you. Gotta find the channel. Yeah one of many many many many many channels Got it channels. Hey, cool. We're live. So Welcome everyone. I want to thank everybody for coming to join. We're sitting here with Cooper. Oh, what did what's your last name Cooper? I had it up here somewhere Quinton Cooper Quinn Yes, all right. He his presentation was detecting fake 4g base stations in real time So thank you so much for taking the time and effort to put together This death con talk. We're in this brave new world where we all get to do things virtually. So thank you very much Yeah, thanks for having me Absolutely, so we've had a few questions come in already Well, we'll just get you started with this first one from RPTK 2015 who has been watching I think all of the talks for as we're going through this Question if I can see that I'm connected to a fake cell ID. What can I do? Should I just stop using the internet? Yeah, that's a great question and I'll answer it in a couple of parts The the first thing I'll answer is that if you think that you are connected to Or that you know, if you're in a situation where you might be worried about a cell site simulator The best thing you can do is just put your phone on airplane mode and that's that's always a good idea if you're out of protest or if you're if you're Committing a crime. This is not legal advice But if you know if you're doing anything where you don't want to be Tracked by your phone. The best thing you can do is just put it in airplane mode the question though of if you see that you're connected to a Rogue cell like you're usually not going to see that there's the unfortunate thing about how phones work is that it's actually really hard to tell if you're connected to a to a cell site simulator and So you're usually not gonna know And a lot of the things that cells like simulators do are Similar to the things that cell networks do when they enter failure modes So like when a cell crap when it you know be crashes or when there's too many people connected to a cell So you're you're Likely not going to know but if you do have that concern. Yeah, just put your phone in airplane mode Leave it in that until you need to send a text or something airplane mode alright, so there's a been a lot of Conversation in the past about airplane mode doesn't protect you from a lot of stuff Are we thinking that this is still gonna be good enough or is this your situation if you don't bring your phone with you? So, I mean, it depends. I think it depends on your risk model, right? It depends what you are concerned about I think airplane mode is going to be good enough for most cases and situations Because not bringing your phone with you means you can't take pictures of whatever's going on It means that you can't make calls. It means you can't call your friends It means you can't call anybody if you're about to get arrested I don't know like again. I don't know what situation you're planning on taking this out And but I think airplane mode is good enough for most cases and yeah, if you're If you really have high security needs If you you know if you don't want to be displaying any Weird patterns of travel like yeah leave your phone at home and leave it on right? That's That's then it looks like you're just sitting around at home doing that. So Again, not legal advice You know, we had a follow-up that I think a lot of people would find true So I'm interested and what you have to say and that's does a VPN offer any protection from a cell site simulator And also, what does it not protect against for example a GPS data or exploits and pre authentication messages? That's a really great question and yes, exactly It does not there's it does not protect against those two things It doesn't protect against GPS data. It doesn't protect against exploits and pre authentication messages Which is where most cell site simulators happen in the first place and actually there was a really There's a there was a great talk at black hat and a really good paper that's out And I can try to find the link and post it somewhere later about So the attack is called I Think it's called alter Yeah, well, so there's no okay, so there's two attacks one is called a LTE are alter and then the other attack is called Shit, I forgot the name And there's another attack and these are two attacks that allow you in that allow a malicious actor in the pre-authentication stage to manipulate DNS queries Being sent to the tower to send back fake To to or to send back fake answers like to send back malicious DNS answers, right responses, so there's Sorry, so to so to answer the question like a VPN might like It might protect against some eavesdropping attacks, but I don't think it's gonna be good enough but the other thing is that the it seems like at least in the US the primary usage for cell-side simulators is to determine Who is in a specific place or in other words what phones are in a specific place or to locate a Suspects or to locate somebody like down to what apartment they're in or down to you know, what up what building, right and Neither of those attacks Rely on looking at the person's or people's internet traffic They only rely on looking at signals being sent from the phone and a VPN won't do anything about that Interesting That makes sense. So there's there are some things that you can protect yourself with in this way There's some things that are outside the scope of your research in this case Yeah Well that is that the natural follow-up question from that is the one I asked quite a bit further But then what's next in this research space and if you if you had more time or money What could you have done to expand this? Yeah, that's a great question so the thing I would love to have is Transmission data so I mentioned in my talk that like we can't actually connect to the tower and we can't actually Transmit things we can't actually like send authentic authentication messages to the tower and see our response We can't look at paging messages, etc. But if we had if we were able to to gain access to Licensed hardware like a like a licensed 4g baseband and program it ourselves or gain access to Lower-level messages then it's possible that we could do them. So that would be that would be an amazing thing to do I think the other thing I would like to do in the future is Get better heuristics involved in crocodile hunters the the heuristics that crocodile hunter uses right now to determine what's a suspicious tower or not They're they're kind of my first pass at that and they think that once we know more about what? What malicious cell towers look like in the wild will be able to get better heuristics to better You know to have less false positives What's suspicious and what's not I don't want to stomp all over the wonderful people putting stuff in chatter here But that is my next follow-up question if it's right into there There are people out here with a lot of time and effort and energy and want to get involved in projects if somebody wants to get involved in this project if they build your rig and Are doing this do you want their data is data from other people helpful? How can people assist? Yeah data from other people is absolutely helpful and there's actually an API Built in the crocodile hunter to allow you to send your data back to us And we have there's documentation on that in the GitHub repository but Yeah, if you if you go do scans even if you don't find anything having that data is super helpful Yeah, so please please go ahead and send it to us and please go ahead and get involved on On the github and you know file bugs and pull requests and stuff We'll probably eventually set up a chat server somewhere if it if the project seems popular enough, so Specific question here like specific to an area so Latin America.  Yeah, so I I don't want to put words in their mouth too much. They have a website with it. I think is fadeprojects.org maybe What maybe one of you can confirm that real quick? They're all opposed it later So they have a website. I don't want to put too many words in their mouth but basically this is a group of a group of technologists a group of hackers that are in various countries in Latin America and they had previously done Fake antenna detection with seaglass which is a similar project out of the University of Washington, but focused on 2g towers and they found some really interesting results in Mexico City and I Think in Columbia if I recall So they found some really interesting results a few different places and they're just they're just doing this To see what they can find and to see how widespread the problem of CSS is in Latin America And they're planning on on Doing this with crocodile hunter doing the same research, but next with great You get to see what that's where it takes you when you're traveling in other countries. Um, yeah, yeah, I'm really excited to see what they find Probably some interesting questions as well as what's allowed on the send receive if you are in non US countries so I Am not an international lawyer. I'm not even a national lawyer. I'm not any type of lawyer So I I cannot speak to that if you if you are curious about that you should ask a lawyer in your country As to what's allowed first and receive because it varies from country to country It does like we were looking at some we were looking at doing this in some Middle Eastern countries and the laws there wouldn't even allow us to receive packets for this all-tower There's questions that I saw here that I'd be interested to learn a little bit more and it's you mentioned briefly in your talk that 5g handles pre-autocating pre-autocating. I can't speak today pre-authentication Thank you This never happened Messages similar to 4g do you suspect nearly identical? Cell-site simulator techniques will carry over from 4g to 5g Yeah, unfortunately, I do a lot of the almost all of the attacks that work against 4g still work against 5g there have been There have been some Mitigations put in place in the standard, but unfortunately a lot of those mitigations are marked as optional in the standard and Anything marked as optional means that the phone companies are absolutely not going to do it Because they want to spend as little money as possible effort as possible because phone companies are a giant pile of shit so So So I don't expect that those that those Mitigations will make their way into actual deployment and I think that yeah, I think that a lot of the same techniques that you see it in 4g are gonna still work in 5g All right, that's good to know. I had another question that I think more just shows my ignorance in the subject but so the kit that you've built in order to do like the hardware on this one is It was $500 for the for the radio and you've got a raspberry pi which is relatively inexpensive and yeah around the laptop and all this the the question that comes to mind on this is We all carry around a cell phone that already talks to these devices Yes, I Can cell phones themselves be modified to to do any of this work? Yeah, so that's a great question and I would love it if they could I Have not found a good way to do that so we can't we can't do this in a native app Because for two reasons a we don't get enough low-level data and B We're only going to see the cells that the phone is actually connecting to And the neighbor list of cells that the phone is actually connecting to and I want to All of the cells right I want to be more driving Gt towers not just looking at What the cell phone wants to connect to right? and then the other thing is there's no way there's no API for the base band right like and there's no if there's no I Mean the closest thing to an open source base band is in SRS cell Tee Right, there's no there's no like open source base band programmable base band that runs on an actual license for a chip Right, and that's the open source LTE Library yeah, yeah, sorry, so that's the open source LTE Sorry, so LTE is the open source LTE library that we use in the back end of crocodile hunter to actually emulate part of the of the user equipment to emulate part of the cell phone and Do the and scan the frequencies and get the Information blocks that we need got you So like we are we are essentially we are emulated phone doing part of what a cell phone does But we're not doing it on cell phone hardware, and it would be great if we could do that on cell phone hardware But I haven't and I am I don't think that that currently exists But it's a good idea and So Seaglass the seaglass project from University of Washington that I was talking about earlier is doing that on a phone using the Osmo Com baseband for 2g or GSM so so that like that does exist for GSM It just doesn't exist for LTE Okay, but it is a good idea and if and when it does exist for LTE it'd be great to to We you know rebuild crocodile hunter using that So you're you're barking up the right tree there for sure What else do we have coming in L. O. Bunk? I can't believe I just used the phrase barking up the right tree. Yeah, he did Back to the alcohol In a coffee cup well done All right, so next question. I was wondering. Oh, sorry You mentioned during you mentioned turning off 2g could help Do you know of any progress to create and enable this feature? I I think that there are people within these companies that really want to see this happen But I think it's going to be I Think it's gonna be an ongoing Battle right like we need I think I think that the the Manufacturers like like Sam or the OS manufacturers Samsung Apple will need to see that there is a consumer demand for it And I mean, they're still they're still not likely to turn 2g off completely or even by default Because it is still used by so many people around the world unfortunately, so But even getting a toggle to turn it off if that's certain Be great, but I think that the company is even though there are people within the companies that really want to see this happen I think the people at the top of those companies need to see consumer demand for it to really make it a priority It's probably a deal all over the place and people The consumer needs to understand that this is the thing that they want before they know how to ask for it Yeah, exactly That a follow-up is so can you sorry I Lost my thing on here. I'm just doing horrible today guys. Sorry. Oh, no, okay It's the day so with disposable phones and burner phones being so readily available Why not buy one of those and give it a try? Yeah, I mean again it I'd say it depends what your threat model is right like I Burger phones are really hard to do properly Like there's a lot of things you've got to take into account Not to actually use a burner phone You have to be able to actually buy it anonymously. You have to call people that you normally call on it You have to stop using it afterwards. There's a lot there Audrey has to come in at the right place and time Yeah, exactly. So it's not it's Actually look even though it's cheap to buy cell phones days It's still not actually I don't think trivial to set up and it and and Again, it depends on what your threat is right if you just don't want the Law enforcement agency in your country to rat a protest, right? I would just put your phone in a plane If you really need to be making a call during that protest, but you really don't want them to know You're there. I mean your chief were we should not be MC catchers. It should be not getting arrested, right? Like it's not I I think that MC catchers should actually be like fairly far down on your list of Threats if you're going to a protest, right?  Like so I don't know. I don't think I Think I think using a burner phone is kind of engineering the solution there I think you should just put your phone in airplane mode Or if you really need to be doing a lot of comms like yeah You know then but you need to be anonymous then think about That but also think about facial recognition and also make tattoos recovered. I'm sure you don't have hair, right? Make sure that nobody can find your t-shirt on Etsy, but exactly exactly make sure you're not wearing a custom mask And over we're kind of coming up to the end we still have you know more time But a great one is any suggestions on research avenues for others to looking to build off this project on Most of this project in the past seems to be around 2g and 3g based So it'd be great to see a project, you know catching up to the latest protocol That's so that is what we're doing That is in fact the whole point of the project Is that the all the past research has been focused on 2g and 3g and we're specifically focused on 4g And what the latest iterations of cell sizing motors like the hail storm and the crossboat Specifically is how they can give back, you know research more Okay, I'm sorry. I understand. I misunderstood the Yep, that was the talk Yeah, so how you can give back, I mean Like we're we're we would love people to get involved with the project right and if you you know We have we have theories about how these things work based on our Based on based on our research based on reading the academic papers, right? And again a big shout out to Yamna She you know me and her spent two years reading all of that kind of fine ability a lot I think you probably back here. We had some cutouts. Okay. Oh, sorry. Yeah, so me and Yamna spent a long time reading all Yamna wrote a really excellent paper detailing all that we know about the 4g and Yeah, I mean, but you know further further research rate and you know new new theories about how they might work I mean for your quest right getting like we there was a really excellent set of manual for the sting rate, right and if we could If somebody just similar for your request and God was for the hail storm, I suppose like yeah, that would be excellent So well, this is a fantastic time for us to put in here a couple of Bits so you work for the EFF Everybody here should know what the EFF is But if you are brand new to the info set community give us just a blurb on the EFF sure so EFF or the Electronic Frontier Foundation is an organization that Defends civil liberties as they intersect with technology or as we say when you get online your rates come with you Don't lose your rights. You don't lose your human rights You don't use your civil liberties freedom of speech the right to privacy free expression Just because you're working with technology and so we we defend that and we defend that through a combination of legal strategy grassroots activism and technology like what I work So we've been doing this for 30 years now 30 years this year. We started in 1990 but our first case was defending Steve Jackson games when they had put out a RPG a pen and paper RPG called cyberpunk Which the FBI decided was a manual for hacking and they rated Steve Jackson games and took all of the copies of cyber We're teaching kids how to hack And and we defended them and got their books back and because this is a clear freedom of speech issue And so that was our first case and we've been taking on cases ever since then So I work I work at EF work specifically in EFF threat lab Well, I guess you watched my talk where I talked pretty extensively about that So I won't I won't dig into the EFF threat lab But that's what EFF is we're a nonprofit we're members supported Over half of our annual budget comes from individual donations from our members members like you Well, Cooper if I if I have a little bit of extra money and I wanted to give it to the EFF how would I do that? Yeah, so you can buy EFF swag here at DEF CON in fact We even have a special DEF CON safe mode EFF shirt that you can only buy during safe mode buy it right now And that's at our website EFF.org and There's a I think there's a there's a donate a link up there There's a shop link there you can go find all of our all of our Branded swag and all of our DEF CON swag or you can just donate us money Directly from there if you like we're also taking donations in Zcash, I think during DEF CON So if you want to donate truly anonymously you can donate to us through that. I have no idea how that works so but you can drop into the Vendors channel and message that EFF account set you up Well, and I also heard a little bit that you are involved in some other things at DEF CON here So would you like to talk a little bit about what you have going on later on? Yeah, I am so Civic time I guess I lost it again. Oh shoot I said at five o'clock tonight 1700 Vegas time We're running the EFF tech trivia event. So I will be the quiz master and We will we'll be asking trivia questions. You can sign up for a team right now if you go to the discord channel Under contests and events it's EFF Triv And you can sign up for a team and we'll ask a bunch of questions and the winning winning teams will Get some free EFF swag Great. All right, so I'm sure that with all of the stuff that you've been talking about here There are people who are interested in reaching out and doing more of this work with you. So we'll have you At the end here post whatever sort of contact information you would like for people to reach out to you with Yeah, do you want me to post that in the talks channel? Sure, we'll put that in the talks channel and Yeah If there's anybody who has one additional question that you'd like to hit or if I look punk. Did you find anything? Are you sitting on something? Maybe so maybe I was having so much fun listening to that So I did post links for the shirt and more information on EFF in the grid chat. So Awesome. Thank you. I look like so. Do you have a final call to action for the people who are listening here? Something would like them to take away I do my my final call to action. It's just to Get involved with what's going on in your local communities, right? Like as As hackers, there's a lot we can do There's a lot of problems that we can solve in our smart hackers way We don't always have to solve it through making a new app A lot of a lot of people working in your community just need help setting up a mailing list, right? Or just need help setting up a simple static website, right? But there's also there's also more creative Like I think the thing about using leaf blowers to blow away tear gas is a is a very much in the hacker spirit, right? It's such a such a great thing to see. So I think that there's there's a lot of ways to get involved You can also get involved with other EFF-minded people in your community by checking out the electronic frontier alliance which is a group of EFF affiliated Subchapters in local region. This is sort of the like way to act locally And you can check that out at EFF dot org slash EFA It's a perfect question to end on here is yes all the project documentation on get hub or any information about a paper being published Yeah, all the project documentation I have not published a paper.  So I may publish a paper eventually, but all of the documentation such as it is which Boy open source and documentation. It's always it's always great, right? But yeah, most of the documentations in my headation that exists is on the github and I'm happy to answer questions and I'm I'm happy to take it upon myself to improve the documentation that people are actually using this That's where you're sharing all of your spreadsheets, huh? Yes, yes All right. Yeah hacking is just spreadsheets Thank you everyone for coming to join. This was a wonderful presentation I like you know, you appreciate your willingness to come spend your time with us So if anyone has additional questions, we will make sure that the contact information is available here in the track one Otherwise have a great rest of your convention and we hope to see more from you soon Thanks. Bye everybody. Bye You