Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today we're discussing something very, very important. Coming on the 29th and 30th, we have farmers from across the country who are going to be coming to Delhi to discuss more about the ongoing agrarian distress. And to shed light on this important issue and this movement of the farmers, we have Viju Krishnan Sir, who is joining us. Sir is the Joint Secretary of the All India Kisan Sabha. The AIKS has been instrumental in mobilizing people and the farmers across the country, shedding light on the various concerns that the farmers have currently. So, sir, we welcome you to NewsClick. And more importantly, to begin with, I'd like to know about the kind of mobilization efforts that we are seeing across the country and what are the kind of concerns that the farmers are coming up with from multiple regions. Actually, the last four years, we have seen continuous struggles by the farmers across the country. And the All India Kisan Sabha has been in the forefront of many of these struggles. And we have seen the Kisan Long March from Nasik to Mumbai, a very historic event, which caught the imagination of people across the country. And we have seen massive struggles in the state of Rajasthan, in most parts of North India and also in many states in Southern India. Today, we are having, for the first time, from across the country more than 200 organizations of farmers coming to Delhi, where thousands will march from four points in Delhi to the Ramleela Maidan. And on 29th and on 30th, you have them marching to the parliament. So, for the first time, we also find there is an unprecedented solidarity that this march has evoked. Earlier, we have, during the Nasik-Mumbai Long March, as well as during our Rajasthan struggles, we have seen different sections of society coming forward in support. That is in the, during the course of a struggle. But even before the march itself, a solidarity which is being built up in the name of nation for farmers, you have had different sections of the middle class. You have the students, the youth, the teachers, scientists, artists, journalists, all of them coming forward in support. We, for instance, yesterday, some auto rickshaw drivers, they have come in support of this march. So, this is something which we have never seen before. It is an unprecedented solidarity and we also have the retired soldiers, the Javans coming out in solidarity with this march. That is something new that, which I think is something we have not seen before. And that also is an indicator of the kind of struggles that will come in the future, in the near future and the kind of solidarities that we have been able to build over the last four years. So, of course, there is massive solidarity that the march is going to be witnessing. And my second question to you is that, how does this solidarity translate into, you know, legislative processes? The AIKS has also spent a lot of time in putting together certain bills. And so, the parliament, the march towards the parliament in a sense, would it be about sending a strong message to the government to look at this from a legislative perspective as well? No, actually, in the earlier Kisan Mukti, sansat that we had, we had a Kisan parliament in which two bills, one for ensuring liberation from debt and another for ensuring assured remunerative price. These two bills had emerged from the Kisans themselves as part of our struggle. For the first time, probably, these two bills, such bills had come out of a struggle. And these were put into the parliament or as introduced in the parliament as private member bills. In the Raju Sabha by the Kisansabha Joint Secretary, KK Ragesh, and in the Lok Sabha by Raju Shetty, member of parliament from Maharashtra. Raju Shetty had earlier contested as part of the NDA. He came out of the NDA against the betrayal of the Modi government and betrayal of farmers by Modi government. And he has joined this All India Kisan-Sangarsh Coordination Committee. So, these two bills are something which the All India Kisan-Sangarsh Coordination Committee through the Kisan parliament have developed. We have had consultations across the country and based on the suggestions given from different parts of the country by farmers, farmers organizations, we have incorporated that. And that is being in this March, the Kisan Mukti March, a special session of parliament we are demanding where the agrarian crisis will be discussed, the different aspects of the crisis would be discussed and the solutions for that. And in that, in this particular session, we want these two bills to be passed. That is what we want the political class to actually commit to the farmers in this coming days. Coming to the question of political commitment. So, what are the kind of anti-farmer policies that have given more energy to this movement of sorts? Because there is a significant, perhaps would you say, is there a betrayal of the farmers by the Modi government? And how has his policies strengthened this movement? No, surely, Narendra Modi and the BJP, in 2014, when they went into the elections, the kind of promises made to the farmers, that led to a lot of hopes among the farmers. And farmers were promised, Achyedin, like every other section of society were promised with. They were promised that farmers suicides would come to an end due to the policies of BJP. They were promised that the Swaminathan Commission recommendation of providing remunerative prices, at least 50% more than the cost of production would be implemented. And literally, the entire wish list of farming community was promised by Narendra Modi and BJP in their manifesto, except probably land reforms, almost every other issue that would feature on a charter of demand of any farmer organization that was featured in their manifesto. But once they have come to power, they have systematically gone back on each of these promises. Within a few days after coming to power, we from the All India Kishan Sabha visited the Agriculture Minister and asked them to implement this recommendation of Swaminathan Commission. And he very openly stated that it is just an election time promise. Every party makes promises. So, these are not to be implemented. And the BJP president said they are Chonavi Jumlas. And the government also went to the Supreme Court, filed an affidavit saying that you could not implement the Swaminathan Commission recommendation because it distorts the market. So, very clearly from the, within a few months, the correct, the intentions of this government came out in the open. So, in the initial years, in the initial days, usually the honeymoon period after a government comes in, not many protests are expected. But they went back on their promise even on the issue of land acquisition. They had mentioned that there would be scientific land use policy and no acquisition of land without consent of the farmers. They brought an ordinance to actually do exactly the opposite of what they had promised. So, we managed to build a massive issue-based unity called the Bhumi Adhikar Andolan, where more than 300 organizations of farmers, agriculture workers, adivasis, dalits, fishing community, and forest workers, different sections coming together and massive struggles we could build against it. There were promises like reducing the costs of inputs, production costs, but all input costs have been rising. We have seen how diesel and petrol prices are rising, prices of fertilizer seeds have been rising because there is no control over these prices. And similarly, providing credit at very low interest rates, we find while government has made a lot of campaign about the agriculture credit being increased, we find that massive loans are being given more to the agribusinesses in the name of agricultural credit. There recently an RTI has revealed that around 615 accounts are getting about close to 60,000 crores as in the name of agricultural credit. This has been going on the last four years. So, that is the kind of policies this government has been pursuing. When crop losses are there, they had promised there would be insurance, farmers would be compensated. The Pradhan Mantri Fasal Bhima Yojana has again, it is a major scam. We had pointed it out when the policy was first implemented. In this manner, each of the promises, whatever hopes were raised by Narendra Modi and BJP, they have been belied. So, naturally the farmers are upset and they are out on the streets in protest. Of course, because of this apathetic political approach, if we may say so, is existing at the level of the national government. Sir, AIKS has been mobilizing people on the ground and if you could shed lights or some light on the kind of demands that are there on the ground and just how the impact of these policies have been in the areas that AIKS has been working in. No, one of the main things which we have been able to see under this government is that the prices of all agricultural products, it has been incessantly falling and ever since the disastrous demonetization policy, we find there has been a sharp fall in prices of all crops, whether it is food grains or commercial crops. So, this is something which we have been raising in our struggles and even when the minimum support price is announced, since there has been a systematic dismantling of the procurement mechanism, there is no procurement happening. So, let us take the example of Paddy for instance. The minimum support price of Paddy, now around 1750 per quintal with the recent announcement. In a state like Bihar or Odisha, Jharkhand, farmers are not getting even 1000 rupees a quintal, whereas the cost of production is much higher than that. So, this talk of minimum support price, even while it is not meeting the actual cost of production, even that is at best notional because there is no procurement mechanism. So, in many states, states like Rajasthan, Bihar, Odisha, one of our struggles is to ensure that there are purchasing centers, that itself is not there and this government has also states which are willing to give a bonus over and above the minimum support price. This government is very strongly discouraging them from doing that. For instance, the state of Kerala where there is a left democratic front government, they are providing a bonus of about 800 rupees per quintal more than the central MSP for Paddy. But this government has written to states saying that if you give more than the centrally fixed MSP, then there would be no procurement by the FCI. So, that is the kind of approach, anti-farmer approach that the BJP and the Prime Minister has been taking. And speaking of the March, of course, the MSP, the debt being core issues that we are looking at. Apart from that, there are other issues that are also assuming greater importance like women's entitlement when it comes to the land or even the status of the wives of the farmers. So, if you could discuss more about those. Women play a major role in agriculture today. Unfortunately, the government often just overlooks their role in farming. And we find even if you look at the National Crime Records Bureau, which looks into the farm suicides, when a women farmer commits suicide, that is usually not recorded as a farm suicide. And another aspect is a lot of farm suicides that are happening. You have the major brunt of it falls on the widows of those farmers. That is also something which is not recognized. There is no proper compensation. There is no long-term assistance for to carry on with the family expenses and so on. This is something which we have been seeing. There is no pension at all, whether in most of the states, neither for the male farmers also. There is no pension that is there which would effectively address their at least the minimum needs that are required. With the increasing expenses for education, health, that is also adding to problems. We find food security is a major issue in many parts. States like Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, massive malnutrition is something which is happening. Women are often the worst hit in this. Other than yes, a lot of children died due to it. In Maharashtra, according to a news report, in a year around 21,000 children below 5 died due to malnutrition. This is such a national shame and in all these places, you find the condition of women is extremely bad. We have visited many villages where farmers have committed suicide. We have seen the condition of the women farmers.  While many have been dispossessed of their land due to the agrarian crisis, we also find there is no employment opportunities for them. Even the rural employment guarantee scheme, MNREG, that also is not, they are not able to provide employment opportunities under that for the women here. So, this is something which we have been witnessing. There is rampant migration. They are being forced to work in extremely insecure conditions. So, that is a situation which is there. Women are not recognized as farmers. Women are not able to get access to subsidies and loans. These are problems which need to be addressed. So, on the March, on the 29th and 30th, how big are these demands going to be playing? Like what kind of role will these be playing and what kind of participation can we also expect from the women as well on the 29th and 30th? No, women in all our mobilizations, a big number of them are actually women. In all the mobilizations, whether it is the Kisan Long March, the struggles in Rajasthan, struggles in Karnataka, in all these, you have a massive participation from women. Naturally, these, the issues that we are raising, all organizations which have come together, we are aware about the increasing role played by women in agriculture, the kind of distress that a large majority of them are facing. So, that is something which has to be addressed. So, surely in the parliament session, special session of parliament, we would want a special discussion on the problems of the women farmers. There have been certain discussions earlier, certain reports which have come forward, but no government has actually taken a special interest in addressing these problems. That is something which we will press for. Other than the women specific issues itself, the remerative prizes, ensuring liberation from debt, the issue of cheaper credit, the issue of cheaper inputs, the issue of ensuring that there is pension for farmers, insurance for farmers. So, all these issues, a broad charter of demands would be prepared, which would be announced on 30th at the Kisan Mukti Rally there. So, that would be announced. And of course, this is going to be a historic precedent for the movement to come, for the future of the movement as well. So, what lies ahead after this, of course? That is a big question. See, as far as the Kisan Sabha and the organizations which have been taking up these struggles, our intervention has been on the genuine issues of the farmers, the life and death issues of the farmers. It has not been necessarily with the immediate electoral considerations in mind. However, we have a prime minister and a political party ruling our country, the BJP. The prime minister singularly is responsible for destroying the livelihoods of millions of farmers with the disastrous demonetization policy. They have gone back on each of the promises that were made to the farmers. The farmers had come out in support. A large number of them had come out in support of the BJP in 2014. But these disastrous policies have led to extreme distress to them. So, these struggles that we have built over time, we are confident that our struggles will create an atmosphere for their defeat. The Kishans, the Masdoor, the agriculture workers, the Dalits and Adivasis and also the Javans, an unprecedented solidarity has been built. We will together ensure that in the forthcoming elections, there is a situation emerges where there would be vote bandhi for the BJP. So, would you say that you are very confident that the kind of social movements that we are seeing, of course the march and other movements that are ongoing, would actually translate into votes to defeat the BJP? Surely, from my involvement with these struggles and whoever has been part of struggles on the ground, there is clearly a trend against the BJP. And it is in the four years of the BJP rule, every section of society has been hit, adversely hit by the demonetization, by the GST, by the deliberate policies for ensuring corporate profiteering. So, naturally, they are all coming out in big numbers, in solidarity with our struggles. It is not that all of a sudden sections are just coming out in solidarity. These four years have, we say, Char Saal, Janta Bihal. So, that is the situation that we are having. Surely, they are coming out and with our involvement in these struggles, we can say with a certain amount of confidence that these struggles will surely ensure their defeat. And if you had to give one key message to what comes ahead or one key message or a big takeaway that this march will give, what would that be? As far as the Kisan Mukti march is concerned, we have, I think, exhausted all our efforts with this government. There have been innumerable efforts. We have petitioned to the government. More than two crore signatures were collected. We have had massive protests earlier on 9th August, the anniversary of Kittindaya movement, where more than 5 lakh people took part in the Jail Bharu program. We have time and again come to Delhi in protests. But this government has not had the time to even speak to the representatives of the farmers. So, today, while we are coming out on the streets again, this is surely, for them, it is, I would say, the last nail in their coffin. They have ignored the farmers and the farmers are extremely angry. They have ignored the workers. They have actually hindered the interests of the working class. So, they are extremely angry with this government. And we have seen in educational institutions across the country, universities across the country, the students, the youth who have been promised crores of jobs, they are without jobs. They are extremely angry. All sections are angry. So, it is, like I said, it is going to be the last nail in their coffin that they ignore these demands. It is only leading to their peril. On that note, we end this discussion. Would this prove to be the final nail in the coffin for the BJP? Thank you so much, sir, for joining us and for this insightful discussion. Thank you.