lot of the villains would be russians right like the holy mountain made like a pretty apt uh comparison metaphor uh about this where you know they were talking about like creating a comic book where uh they indoctrinated children into to consuming this comic book and they were like the government has decided that we want to wage war against peru and so we made the the main villain the peruvian monster like all of the films that a lot of that are from this generation of films that this guy loves and a lot of people that make these same sort of media criticisms criticisms left like a lot of them have a lot of political propaganda in it and a lot of like gender propaganda a lot of race propaganda a lot of like gender identity propaganda maybe we just didn't you know necessarily come to terms with what that was as it was happening but like a lot of it exists right um and maybe we're just more hyper aware of this conversation nowadays but that doesn't mean that it's not a thing that existed before and that this is some like new wave of like movies didn't used to be political like i i don't know if i agree with that you know i don't think he's saying movies didn't used to be political you'd be you would say it's a different these days that that's fair i uh that was more of a statement than that was more of a generalized statement to that crowd the meme of game i remember when games weren't political and has pictures of like bio shock metal guest solid and model warfare too is that what you're thinking of yeah i mean like there's a hyper like like the the conversation surrounding media it seems like there's a good chunk of people talking about media online that just that are under the impression that like things didn't used to be political and now they are or that things are inherently bad because there's anything political in it which is also just like silly right so i'm more speaking trying to argue against that mindset not necessarily saying that that is what critical drinker literally believes but yeah i could have clarified better yeah it offends you because it's in a sense hasn't got any off or carrying it crossed in the character like Ripley from alien or Sarah Connor from the terminator movie it's always Ripley and Sarah Connor like every single time every single time you talk about like female representation of movie it's always like we got Ripley and Sarah Connor i'm gonna say i will say i don't like that uh people are trying to almost rob people of the capacity to use those ones as examples because they're often cited which is something i noticed here's here's what i'll say about this i think that it kind of proves that there is like an issue and i guess you would say that a critical drinker agrees that this is that is this issue exists and you know i actually recently watched his thing was called like women in film that i don't remember what it was called but yeah he does he does agree with this like the fact that the go-to examples are just science fiction movies from the eighties and it's been so long since then like that kind of sucks i think that makes me feel like the people that want more women representation in movies like they i can understand where they're coming from when when the our best example if you saw is 40 50 years ago his video related to women in film he had a laundry list of all kinds of great examples i doubt he would have said if he's lamenting on the fact that people use them as examples because it seems like there should be more that are prominent in in the brain i would probably argue back to him it makes a hell of a lot of sense that those are prominent in the brain that celebrated as part of masterpiece films there's two of the greatest female characters of all time of course they're referenced why wouldn't it be referenced in the same vein by the way the fact that they're so old and that's our best examples i don't consistently by everybody that that reflects a problem but like if someone asked me like who's the greatest movie villain of all time my head straight away goes to veda and then it's like wow veda yeah but that's not everyone's answer that's one of the most common i probably argue that is the most common answer in the film history for people i don't know you really don't think so i don't think that the most common answer for greatest villain is vader who do you think that it would it would be in the reddit thread for sure could you think well yeah but that's the point so would ripley and sarah i no i but the reddit thread would include like 200 different answers for male villains and you know female main characters well i didn't even say male there's a male villains in general which is it's gonna be broader whatever right but the it's the same principle we draw from some of the most prominent and remembered ones it would be weird if i was to reference you that we draw from the most prominent the issue is that the most prominent is a very small laundry list compared to what you know if we're talking about male representation of characters in movies there's no point of even trying to list them because that's just like fucking most movies that are good right like the fucking i am db top 250 or whatever like just scroll down that or like whatever your metric for just judging a good film is it's just there right we don't it's not a challenge you don't have to come up with answers you don't have to try and make a list because like no one's even arguing about it right whereas when we talk about strong female characters it's it's not it's not a huge list or at least in terms of like the type of media that the average person consumes and what type of uh character would constitute as a strong female character for most people talking about films i think the how many do you think that one would have to list before you'd be like oh shit i guess there are a lot that's an interesting question because from my perspective when i'm talking about the the grand scheme of like every movie and like all the movies that i haven't seen or like you know when we talk about strong female characters in films i think what we're really talking about is like strong female characters in films that are accessible to the average person whereas like i'm sure you know movies from any country of any budget of like any level like if we're including literally everything then the answer is infinite and they're being made forever like the answer is infinite for anything right like so that's a difficult question i'm not sure how to answer that yeah and so all i'm saying is that in terms of in terms of movies that people are aware of in terms of movies that like you know i i mean i i almost feel cynical about this that the true answer this question could literally be that people just don't have the lists on their brain which is fine i mean the i don't know i i would you agree that there's less strong female characters than male characters yes media okay well then we agree okay not good characters but it's like it's always it's literally it's literally always those two examples which kind of proves the point right like i don't know it's not like it's not to say that every movie within that generation is like therefore bad because it didn't include female characters right it's just it's just an argument that like hey you know you know maybe maybe there could be more characters like Ripley and Sarah Connor you know like maybe yeah write them you know especially especially to people that really feel so emboldened by this sort of like america was great because we had muscle people in the 80s like in the same way that you might feel happy about yourself being represented in that way you know like there's other people that might i mean you did cash he went through each of the decades describing the general sort of outlook of different characters that were prominent in film like they weren't necessarily that he appeals to them as a person himself just that that was the the commonalities okay but i i do from the the videos that i have watched on his channel there does seem to be like a recurring theme of like nostalgia for those periods and those types of yeah he enjoys the hell of him but to be fair he also enjoys the hell out of Sarah Connor and Ripley and all the other women he's enjoyed in cinema whoever they may be yeah i'm not saying he doesn't enjoy them see themselves represented in a different way that you know they might enjoy it with uh say an example off the top of my head which i know will be go over well on these platforms captain marvel and the way that captain marvel was kind of presented as a hero it offends you i think because i'm as i've said before i'm a fan of your content that you don't get to see a vulnerable character evolve a vulnerable character learn lessons a character that is flawed and has to overcome obstacles in a sense this is the function of story that precedes the medium of cinema but we need to see that character in position a at the start to me it sounds like Russell's agreeing with him that that's what's missing in the modern female characters because captain marvel i don't know if you saw it but she's basically characterless yeah yeah i saw it for some reason uh i don't know why it's unable to achieve something but by you know they go through kofasis challenges whatever and at the other side they're able you think that this new ideology that's about presenting figures or characters in a particular way is unable to serve story and function story is that what you're saying jinker what's the fundamental thing like you said that gets you to identify with a character as you give a person that's somewhat likable give them an obstacle to overcome and have them struggle to do it they have them lots of things to get in their way like they fall down they pick themselves up they eventually overcome that is this the fundamental essence of what makes you like a character in a very specific type of movie that is very crab blazing yes i can't fight with them it's so easy it's they shouldn't even it is not it is not the rule for all films or characters need to be said i will say you're talking to the people right on the yeah but we would even concede that it really comes down to so many different cores that are really complicated in terms of like you wouldn't want to make any hard and fast rules definitively um because could a character work when they have no characteristics and someone might say like obviously known it's like hmm that sounds like an interesting challenge what would they look like yeah it's it's good to you know create your own limitations in terms of filmmaking and writing and seeing how you can work around that i would say that i think his recommendations and advice are pretty strong for broad as you've just said as well yes yeah but what they lack with these modern characters that they try to do is that they're not willing to take that step of have them fail and be vulnerable and have flaws and weaknesses i either because the writers don't know how to do it or because they've got this kind of prickly defensiveness when it comes to writing things like female and see um i'm gonna keep because i feel like these are all references to the point and he's talking about what we need to do and what they don't do with women these days not that we don't need women at all because we've got plenty of examples already i yeah well we'll wait until he's asked the question a second time i i'm not i'm not 100 like oh this couldn't possibly but be what he's saying i'm just i'm hung up on the phrasing of what he says at a certain point they don't want them to be perceived as weak and so the only alternative they have is well they just have to be great at everything and so they're they're brilliant everything right off the bat they have all the skills they need they don't need to learn everything they don't really have personalities because they don't have any like flaws or weaknesses and the arc basically becomes them being amazing and being up here and the rest of the world having to learn to accept how awesome they are and like eventually come up and accept them that there's no character out there it's just a straight line that's that what are you saying is not untrue it's simplistic but it's not untrue i think that i think that in general like a lot of these you know marvel of the day films are just terribly written and i do believe that you know if we were to look at human beings as statistics you will probably see a higher number of writers writing larger projects that are probably more scared you know to to write flawed female characters because of how they'd be perceived right i i get it that's not an untrue thing to say um but it is you know again the the takeaway as a whole is kind of like a very narrow view of filmmaking and cinema and just media diet in general where it's like you know it's not it's not like this is like it's not like you can't find movies with like good female characters in it or anything it's not like you can't find well-written movies it's it's just kind of like okay like if you're only watching marvel movies then yeah you know there's some there's some issues with it because it's a marvel movie but not necessarily because obviously he would argue the patent goes way further than marvel films but that at the same time he's seen plenty of marvel marvel is a generalization to yeah you want to mainstream studio films right oh shit hang on whoops sorry um no broken uh go away what was going to say was that yeah the uh that he's also praised some mainstream films for even the writing of their females like it would have happened he's just sort of doing broad statements of much more than that and people don't find that satisfying that's the problem that's why nobody watches these movies anymore that's why the box office turns just go down and down yeah because when we meet let's take the example of Sarah Connor we find her as a waitress live a drifting through life listlessly but down the line we see that this character is going to be a revolutionary figure that's sorry which character of Sarah Connor we find her as a waitress live a drifting through life listlessly it's also kind of a horror movie where like okay the two examples Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley they're both sci-fi horror movies right where they might not even be female leads if people didn't have this weird caveman brain protectionist mentality of like gotta protect the babies and the women right like how many horror movies do you like the final girl is a trope I don't know that this has necessarily any weight on the discussion that they have in though I'm well I mean like my argument is that you know not only are uh strong female characters less represented but they're more uh they're more what's the word pigeonhole they're more uh what is they're they're trapped in certain tropes uh that uh are not necessarily so the trope you're referring to is the last scale right the they ended up in those positions and I'm not saying I'm not saying that alien and terminator are you know like oh it's slash for movies or anything like that well I'm saying that like I'm happy to say that they do qualify but the obviously they're so special they rose above they did some like what was the key that made alien aliens t2 t1 why are they so much more special because like obviously the the incredible filmmaking and the scripts so yeah they may have been put in place originally the female character has been the fact that they're like we're gonna have a girl at the end because that uh makes the audience feel the most vulnerable for the character if um if you're gonna have a burly guy or a or a regular woman against an alien creature of any kind or terminator whatever then who do you think has the better chance like I guess the guy does but ultimately I don't think it makes a huge amount of difference when it's an alien terminator but I understand the appeal to the uh the audience and therefore that's why they ended up as women is is part of what you're saying but the thing is like they were written so well that now they are blatantly used because they are as a great template for female characters yeah you could have a man in a position for any kind of reason like that as well right I'm not exactly exactly I'm just saying I'm not saying that the movies are worse because of it I'm not saying the characters are worse because of it I'm saying that it is kind of you know it's it's reflective of the greater point of like oh yeah there isn't that all that much in terms of representing uh strong female characters when it's all just like oh like kind of the sci-fi horror movies from the 80s it's very narrow um I feel like they've evolved past that though it's not I mean we have we have but no those characters like I don't think people see Ripley as oh yes the sci-fi horror law skill they see her as Ripley I certainly don't yeah I just see her as a well written character I mean I don't see her that way is what I meant to say okay because that's what I'm saying is that's why they like a beacon they they've evolved past whatever original reason that they ended up the way that they are yeah it's less it's less about what those characters are specifically and I'm just talking about the opportunities for uh like roles you know for for women to appear in films and get roles yeah I mean it seems to be like more narrow but um it could be considered pretty subversive that those two ended up being part of a big poll to see the stories in these films right at the time as in like aliens I think she managed to negotiate millions more yeah I'm not I'm not trying to dismiss the achievements of those movies and I'm not trying to dismiss those characters as being anything but good examples of uh strong female characters okay the word girl is in there because like to make people scared you got to have it a woman because they're more innocent because they're more defenseless right like that that's a part of the trip that's a part of like the gendered sort of stereotype right and so when both of the examples are like Ripley sci-fi horror right Sarah Connor sci-fi horror thank you for the raid red radius right like they're great characters but they're the exception to the role when it comes to the genre but they might not be females if it weren't like a horror sci-fi genre a horror genre yeah I don't think that's relevant okay specifically um you know when we're talking about characters like overcoming obstacles I agree that that helps you empathize with them especially in like a mainstream film you know like we're gonna go like watch a film like drive right the guy barely speaks a fucking word but you see him suffer a bit you understand what he wants you understand his goals you understand what he cares about and you understand what it means to him by the end of the film for him to achieve his goals those are important things if you're gonna make like a mainstream like goal oriented like a bc plot sort of thing that appeals to a lot of people um I agree with that but like I don't know if these I don't know if if Ripley and Sarah Connor are necessarily like the prime examples of writing female characters when they're both just you know sci-fi strong women characters that we're down on their luck mostly because there's like a thing trying to kill them like I have no clue what you're trying to say here yeah I'm what I if I phrase myself better my argument is there's other examples of female characters that we could do that don't have to adhere towards what they did with Sarah Connor and Ripley is that the the landscape of what is possible with writing a good female character is not necessarily a strong you know like a like leadership sort of like badass killing a sci-fi creature thing you know you don't think it's a little bit reductive it depends on what you think I'm saying I guess that the writing discipline behind the two of them should be celebrated to hell and back for hell of a lot more than just they turned what could have been seen as more of a timid female character into a warrior leader who's gonna be doing all kinds of it's not it's not a criticism against the writing of those films at all I'm just I'm saying that in the landscape of films between then and now there's so much more opportunity to create strong female characters that where you don't have to copy that to get that I'm saying that well you'll hear me say it soon I'm pretty sure like I talk about how you know a lot of uh women audience members you know relate to films that I don't necessarily relate to and the types of female characters that they want to see in a movie might be in something like Lady Bird or some shit right completely that's what I'm getting at the thing there's a lot of miscommunication because like what I'm trying to get at is the say the main character and um I'm trying to think of just any romantic comedy that's super chill and like pick whatever one you want versus the writing for Ripley I would say there's gonna be if it's a really good romantic comedy I would likely connect them significantly on the writing discipline they would likely be broad elements of how they've approached writing the characters that I would connect even though they're completely different and that's what we're supposed to take I believe from Ripley and Sarah not that women can be action heroes like no no no it's treating them very very seriously respecting their layers as characters having the consequences of the actions in their lives reflecting their experiences and values that sort of thing okay that's not an unfair thing to say but like most of their hardship was the fact that they're in a horror movie right like you write a character like Captain Marvel it's not like you know it's it's not like she's got like an alien or a terminator trying to get her the whole thing it's not like have you seen Captain Marvel yeah he hasn't have you you said you've seen it right yeah she's got a an alien race chasing her sorry what did I just say in the video you said it's not like Captain Marvel has like a robot or a monster chasing her um I forgot half the fucking movie it's okay it's literally just in my brain and out I hate I hate I assume the point you were making was the the nature of having a creature like that after you will facilitate like losses in some way and so the character will have to strive to overcome it and so that's like a natural part of the genre yeah it is possible to still flub that and fumble it in a movie yeah yeah well and I was gonna say like a superhero is a fucking perfect for that sort of thing right it's not even it's not really a sci-fi horror you know no no of course it's just that it is there's ample opportunity to provide her the same sort of growth options you'd even expect them to be there it's actually strange that there's not a lot of the superhero movie origin stories relate to like the old time down points right like strange getting his hands completely crippled stock getting his hot blown out yeah all that sort of stuff I know what you mean and I think again I'm just gonna say like Sarah Connor and Ripley are fucking great characters and it sucks that it's difficult to imagine something that can be at that level without like essentially copying what they're doing I think that that speaks to part of the problem is that what I'm thinking like you know like how do we make a character that's as iconic and as likable and as respectable yeah characters it's like you almost just inevitably kind of go back to what are I guess now potentially considered tropes or you know like how do you even do that it's it's part of the problem yeah because I think there's a double edge sort of bad too because a lot of writers take for example the writers of Captain Marvel might have said like oh that Ripley and Sarah fully inspired Captain Marvel and all they think about is like when she goes to attack the Queen and Aliens and when Sarah is like approaching whatever she is at the peak of her confidence they don't think about everything that's to do with those characters I was about to say it feels to me like part of the problem is that there's too much of a focus on how competent somebody is to the exclusion of their vulnerabilities or their weaknesses or their flaws as an individual but like the rough edges of characters can often be the most interesting thing about them she's mentally unstable like in her rise above those problems and succeed and prevail and reconnect with John like it's it's from you know that low to get to that high and it's the same with Ripley Ripley's got her own problems and her flaws and vulnerabilities but those are the things that help make them feel well rounded whereas like I don't know with someone like Captain Marvel what they were really thinking in terms of all right well what's what's what are her problems that she needs to deal with internally and I think what's in it for Captain Marvel basically realizing that she was awesome right from the start yeah yeah I want to I want to make it clear to anybody listen to this free he's not like meming that is that is what happens in the film she's very strong she's captured and then she has a conversation with the villain and in the middle of this conversation she realizes she's much stronger than she always thought she was that's that's her arc she understands that she's a god because her inclusion into the MCU wasn't even like organic they were trying to find a replacement for Iron Man right uh well basically I think that the plan initially was that she was begun going to become the new leader of the Avengers but now it's probably going to be Falcon or Doctor Strange um because people don't really care about Captain Marvel as a character and I mean I it is that a surprise she's not very interesting it's very unlikeable not interesting there's not many layers to her approach to any situation I guess the point would be that it's part of the reason why I don't like the strong female character like meme as a statement because it feels like it's missing the point it's just like we're trying to write people here yeah just trying to yeah just write good female character yeah like I don't need yeah they're good that would solve it it's just like I want characters I want people I can connect to yeah that's what everybody wants ultimately is people they can connect to and I mean yeah you know something I've been thinking about as well in this conversation is I want to be part of the reason why people often default to Ripley and Sarah Connor is because when you're thinking about characters in action movies or science fiction fantasy or anything like that that um it might be too focused on a genre that to some extent can skew more towards having male protagonists uh then you might find another genres as well and if that and if it's a matter of almost like trying to broaden our uh well yeah and that's the true progress that needs to be made is well written female characters we need more of them yeah yeah yeah and and then it's something you've mentioned as well as it sometimes you default to those ones because they're on the top of your mind they're good examples but if you sat down and thought about it for a while you could get a much more comprehensive list of female characters from action film science fiction and you know fantasy that you could uh put in a list like you know yeah I genuinely believe like drinker could write you a list of a hundred if he's given the time yeah I'm I'm sure the movies would start to get pretty obscure but uh maybe but I'm sure that it is possible I like you know Evelyn everything everywhere that's a good character right absolutely yeah and he would he obviously did a very positive review of that and he would appraise the hell out of her as a character and her daughter good character like captain marvel it's not like you know it's it's not like she's got like an alien or a terminator trying to get her the whole it's not like it's a fucking horror movie right like these are entirely different genres so I'm not saying I'm not saying that captain marvel was well written I'm not saying that captain marvel like it wasn't it was not but I'm sure there's examples of marvel movies that had male characters that did not have as much struggle as like captain marvel or whatever you know unfortunately yeah this is uh in the marvel in the marvel movies this is not true like okay all of the male characters have things that they have to struggle so yeah I don't think yeah yeah yeah that was that was just like a you know throwing it out to the audience and hoping they'd give me something and then nobody did anything and it was okay well I don't watch those fucking movies Iron Man obviously in several instances uh has obstacles to overcome both external and internal Bruce obviously he's got uh he's got his internal struggles that he has to deal with Thor's arc in the original movie was that he's too vain and egotistical and that he needs to become more humble and in doing so he becomes more of a hero when he's stripped of his god powers I'll trust I'll trust all of you on this one I just fucking yeah I'm not watching all this well I mean did you think Iron Man was good uh it wasn't bad okay this is gonna be a compliment as we'll get I think we don't take it maybe maybe I'm full of shit because I've never watched every marvel movie but like I'm willing to bet that there's some marvel movie that exists where there's a male character that also didn't really go through much struggle or suffering no before they were expected to be here um I just don't talk about that the bright oh I love maybe maybe when I said marvel I meant student big studio movie I mean at that point this gotta be somewhat yeah yes but in terms of MCU movies nah that was years ago I don't know what I mean the bright is a great great example of like a you know strong female character but it's also a dude movie you know it's also a dude movie like and as a you know biological male person with a penis whatever like I gotta accept that a lot of things that I love you know I love a lot of dude movies I love some girl movies too again I would appeal not to the nature of like the action or whatever would qualify as a dude movie just did the discipline behind the writing again for the bride would be another one that's respectable mm-hmm no I'm yeah my point was there was not to discredit those types of films uh but to justify why there's people in the industry trying to create films that are more uh broad in terms of what their goals are sorry not broad but more uh varied it's to explain why there's a push for you know girl movies and shit um sure I mean I'd like to believe that a great film like doesn't necessarily have to appeal to male or female in and of itself but I mean I understand and I've heard plenty of arguments that relate to it in terms of what men and women I don't know typically prefer to see in their stories I'm not gonna say that's not true I guess it's gotta be but I like to think that some of the greatest movies of all time like can transcend that and that's what we should be maybe striving toward not necessarily have to achieve every time because everybody's expanding their horizons as viewers right that people don't go oh well that's not a genre that I'm interested in so I won't watch that and then potentially mess out on a story that really rip you I feel like there's a lot of films that I would naturally be like nah but that could be my favorite film of all time yeah yeah and you like it um and I was gonna say as well when I said earlier we need more really well written female characters I mean all characters I mean we need more well written male characters we need more well written all characters it's it's something that we desperately need more of yeah I need more well written horse characters and I will not well we can't always get what we want I guess making videos I will that could be your first film the horse representation in media uh you know a lot of things I feel like there's plenty of horses in the media name five Barbie had good horse rep there were horses in Oppenheimer uh there's there's Roach Roach from the witcher uh oh Maximus from Tangled Bojack Horseman yeah there's Bojack Horseman exactly spirit and rain from yeah whatever the ones in that what that DreamWorks one the one with the horses there's that too what about Buck from Home on the Range is I feel like we're coming here's the thing I feel like we're coming I feel like we're coming up with horse answers much more quickly and easily than if we were to say strong female characters the horse from uh from I feel I feel like that's what I'm talking about the true imbalance I feel like we were like BAM BAM BAM all these great horse characters to be fair we're about to run out though like we've just named all the most famous horses we've had a lot of uh we've had a lot of recent video games that emphasize your noble steed that was with you Red Dead Redemption 2 and Ghosts of Sushi yeah yeah why that's to be fair these are not characters necessarily okay these are horses a lot of them are characters I said necessarily no Tulio was the guy then they have Miguel and Tulio Miguel and Tulio oh fuck what was the horse's name I can't he was a noble steed now of course don't he is part of the donkeys that equine donkeys he f's into a horse in the second movie temporarily you don't need to try and true yeah he's stallion baby and the definition right because donkey is a part of the the uh the what's the name it's equines right or equine yeah yeah so yeah yeah it's good that we clarify a little body from uh from uh from Madagascar and aggro from Shadow the Colossus man I'm actually kind of impressed how many both characters we can name it it's so easy well hey if you do you want to do we could do the good female characters if you want dude you know you know what I you know what I really want to do what do you want to do I want to create a busy video essay on horses and media just do rank them yeah tier list do it it's a very serious like chill because if you soundtrack if you tell chat start naming all of the great female characters you think exist in movies and tv like you'll get shit tons of examples you know like record video games as well in the mix we've got a lot of answers the thing is is if you ask a bunch of different people yeah you will get more than just Ripley and Sarah Connor for sure I think that if Russell said drinker you fucking idiot name more than those two he would we are like 10 horses without even looking at chat I we can do 10 female characters without looking at chat okay I'm sure you can all right blindfolded I'm looking to see if there's any like all right all we are I think Ripley they're gonna show up in that list yeah okay I'll I'll go sack and Sarah Codd we actually do we're naming some female characters I don't know if we do it if it beeps or for real uh Aowyn how to be Lord of the Rings oh yeah she is I mean I'm just reading people's and there's a there is a diverse sort of don't look at chat it's cheating no I'm not I'm well then I'm not participating because all right fine back to why mess wait is it yeah yeah Elvin what is her name again what from everything everywhere what's her name again oh Evelyn Evelyn Evelyn Jesus elephant consonants mixed up all right wait is it we did this awkwardly so I guess I'm next uh Marion from Indiana Jones oh yeah that's right yeah Marion Ravenwood uh so is it me now mm-hmm all right let's go with uh who's Sandra Bullock from A Time to Kill oh I don't know if I can her name was I didn't catch that but yeah she was pretty I forget her name from to be fair I've forgotten all the names the characters in that except Carl Lee because they said call Lee 10,000 because they said I'm 712 times Jake I was uh Matthew McConaughey are we back to back to why miss yeah well it depends on how I define it because I you know when I'm I'm stuck in this it's it's again part of like this weird issue where I'm stuck in this mindset of like okay what is a strong female character and then I think like I don't know like should I be listing like Emily Blunt from fucking edge of tomorrow like but the the the psychological association with the word strong keeps leading me down this path of like action and science fiction that I'm not sure I really want to go and then it's like okay well I haven't seen fucking like Amelie in a while like I gotta remember everything there is about that character would that fit as a strong female character I don't know like I can name a bunch of female main characters but then it's like how do we define that at that point as long as they are very well written right because like Princess Fiona from Shrek well she's main character but not the lead right she's one of the co-leads I'd be like an example yeah I don't know like she's not she's strong in the sense that she has her own agency and she's Wally she's the strongest character in the film was unclear sounds like why this wouldn't count those as very well written female characters when we when we talk about if we if we talk about the list of like strongest male characters like a lot of the examples that we're going to be coming up with are gonna be like fucking transformative character pieces and shit right of like wow what an interesting strong character and I feel like a lot of times when we're talking about strong female characters like if we're gonna list like Fiona like I think at one point critical drinker lists Trinity like I don't know if I they you know they almost seem like they're kind of just in the story for a checklist for the main character and sure they have their own agency they're not necessarily like damsel in distress but I don't know if they're really like that fleshed out they have personality she's supposed to submit that like I'm not sure absolutely like absolutely she's got her own concurrent story running she does but I just it seems like so far off what we would consider to be like a strong male character in a lead it seems like so incomparable okay but what if someone named Indiana Jones as part of this election it's not like that's going to be considered one of the greatest sort of subversions and layered approaches to a great character journey ever it's more so he's an incredibly entertaining representative of a fantastic trilogy that everyone really loves like and I think that's a perfectly valid choice for one of the greatest characters ever of cinema because it's just he's tied so inherently to entertainment he's so consistently written and he's so entertaining culture yeah so in the same vein if someone was to pick let's say I don't know you mentioned the bride right could someone not say like the bride love the bride okay if she qualifies fair enough but like I it does seem like we maybe draw the line in different places I'm not sure yeah it's it's it's it's an interesting thing to think about because like you know I don't I don't have this issue thinking about strong male characters where I'm trying to like figure out how to selectively define it like what is even you know like what makes a character strong it almost seems like it's less of an issue well I guess maybe that could be from my perception maybe that's my issue I don't know but like I think I think there's a problem of like it's thinking about let's get broader with the word strong it doesn't necessarily mean physically right emotionally in some in some other realm of their of their life they're really competent you know what you know it fucking sucks is like there's a lot of movies that I really love where I can I can say like oh that's a strong female character and I have difficulty to remember they're remembering their names even you know like I guess it's an interesting one for me because in my brain I find it really easy to in particular remember like characters from animated films and video games because I can very strongly associate them with that character and that design rather than an actress playing them but even then when it comes to film yeah that's what I'm finding that yeah like what was fucking viola davis's character in widows like yeah the I would have the same problem there's plenty of characters I consider amazing that I've forgotten their names which is unfortunate but it happens no I I I think I think that there's some truth in everything that we're all saying about this and that the answer is not a black and white based on just the fact that how readily chat was able to provide an assortment of characters from film television shows video games books and everything is that I think the people's faults are the notion that you can't list a bunch of like well written you know I guess strong female characters we want to use that categorization but like you sit down and think about it's like there's a lot like it's frustrating you know narrative that gets presented of like ah yes we invented female characters in like action movies yeah it's just bullshit like you can just go back through like for decades and decades and decades and you have a list of characters that you can cite why do I not know the names of like most of these female characters unless their names in the title like jackie brown obviously right that's in the title right but like you know I don't remember Francis McDormand's character from Fargo I'm looking at the things in the chat now okay oh yeah the name of the girl in Pan's labyrinth like you I have this problem with men in a lot of movies as well because like I don't accept well unless they're super iconic right like no no country world men isn't called Anton but you know you remember his name oh yeah Anton sugar it's iconic exactly yeah but I'd say that like Sarah and Ripley are practically inseparable from the franchises they're attached to as well this does happen for women too it's just that equally because we've agreed I assume that the vast majority of great characters it's much more skewed to male than female I'm totally fine with conceding that but it doesn't change the fact that there are shit tons of women in there yeah I agree Fred we're not all looking for the same thing I love Kill Bill I love Kill Bill so fucking much I think that the bride is a great character um yeah some people are looking for a fucking I don't know ladybird yeah it's not my thing but you know some people were like really looking for that I don't know it's not like it's not like a poorly written character because it's for girls you know what Evie from the mummy he was oh that's a good female character Evelyn Evelyn yeah so you got Rick O'Connell and Evelyn I guess O'Connell by the time you hit the leo ones Tom cruises the mummy what not yes the best of the the best of them it was so good Tom cruises the mummy the finest he was the best nobody at all the beginning of the dark universe what a great universe that proved to be nobody knows the names of any character in those movies did anybody watch the trailer for that movie where yes it accidentally got uploaded without oh that was so good that was so good that was so good that was so weird they get sucked out of the plane stop bullying the poor multi-million dollar franchise movie we've all done the kind of highlights that when you remove music from a scene it's fascinating to see how how few sound effects there may actually be in a scene it's it no it's not only fascinating to see how like about the layers that go into it but it's also fascinating just how much of movies rely on soundtrack and when you strip that away I'm very critical of that in the media that I watch is just like how much are you relying on the the score right now you know like it happens all the fucking time and people don't notice it it's an interesting topic because something that I've uh some of the I felt is now this could be a bias of mine but I really like video game music I like it a lot and I feel like part of the reason why I like it so much and why I can remember so many melodies is because if it's going to be playing over and over and over and over and over again you got to make sure that it's catchy interesting unique that it won't sort of tire on you right like if you listen to music from like super mario brothers you need to hear it over and over and over again and I wonder if like there's sort of the mentality that goes into composing for you know video game soundtracks compared to film soundtracks where there's different sort of a different role that the music may or may not be playing you know in a in a particular film that was a tangent that led to a dead end let's just keep going all right different people like different things yeah I don't know where I was going with that there was a little bit of a ramble but down the line we see that this character is going to be a revolutionary figure that's met the challenge of knowing that she's carrying perhaps the most sort of significant thing that a character could carry like that you know the essence or a symbol for the future hey listen we're going to come off of youtube now and here are the reasons you rumble rumble we're going to talk about freedom why is this movie causing so much controversy as it appears to be beaten in the okay do I do I dare um I was going to say by the way you said you were going to join us for four hours we're hitting five soon so I want to make sure you feel that you were free that was an approximate yeah I might have to like well that's what I'm saying I want you to feel like you're free to leave whenever you want of course appreciate all the time you're given today this is a lot of clarification but I'm happy to continue if you are yep or continue this on rumble oh the link is just to your channel I can't even like give me the actual interview how long ago was this July 14th all right we're going July 14th can I watch rumble videos on twitch it's as long as they're not banned streamers yeah no English hey listen we're going to come off of youtube now and here are the reasons you should join us on rumble we're going to talk about sound of freedom I I host some of my content on rumble and I don't get paid shit their their fucking ad split is so bad like I'm looking for a good reason to like even pimp out rumble at all by the way I started uploading my shit on rumble way before it was like anti-vaxx conservative shit it was just an alternative to youtube people were uploading cat videos and I was like yeah I'll do that and now I'm kind of stuck with it why is this movie causing so much controversy as it appears to be beaten in Deanna Jones in the Fox office what does it tell us about films oh my god they're talking about sound of freedom I'm so hyped what does it tell us about new funding models what does it tell us about the appetite of us this conversation is an hour long when am I going to bed what the fuck the audiences I'm also going to start referring to the critical drinker by his actual human name and I'm gonna ask you to remove it. This gets difficult to fully understand hopefully everyone He sounds like XQC. He does In his gaze more like in his lesbians I All right, this this is going pretty fast just so are we all are we all good with how fast this is going right now? We can we can do one point two five if it's one point We might want to slow it down a bit because I I'm having a bit of difficulty tracking here Sure, you can put it on one if you need to but this this this point this point that is being made right now Is something that I have things to say about so all right, so let me you might want to rewind it like 10 seconds even You're saying that what a movie is about is Something that you should have no qualms about supporting that merely the subject matter is something that you should support That's insane. That's insane A movie is about child sex trafficking Therefore you should have no qualms about supporting it because what it's about not about the filmmaking You person talking about films I think he would concede that just because the film is about one thing that doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna nail it But obviously he feels it does Like what he feels what no, I know but like the the even bringing up the like oh you should have no qualms about supporting it like That that's that's just that that's like the talking point right now That that seems so inorganic and I I'm not trying to say that he's doing that consciously Like many people subconsciously pick up arguments and talking points from other people and the types of media that you're exposed to but right now like that's that's the like The the conservative media pundits talking about Sound of freedom are all essentially just parroting like oh, why would you have an issue with this movie because it's about this you That's such a for a guy that that creates this entire persona and this entire Like objective of the channel not you know the entire objective of the channel But much of the channel being like okay You know the politics in a movie shouldn't supersede its quality if that's like a generous and fair way to determine What he often says and then saying like oh, yeah, you should have no qualms about supporting this movie because of what it's about I'm sorry.  I didn't get to watch the whole thing because very shortly into the video He started summarizing the plot and I didn't want it spoiled Uh, so I wasn't able to finish it um Even it even if he does, you know think that it's held up on its own merits about uh the acting the writing's cinematography whatever The fact the fact that he threw that into the conversation and that was the first thing he said is really I I don't know it's it's indicative of like the types of the Things that he consumes and I think that it You know if he took a step back then maybe he might not say that um I I I don't know how that's like defensible when when the entire uh Perspective of the channel is like the art should be a focus over the politics for for you to then say Watch this or you shouldn't have any problems supporting this movie and then only list because it's about this like that's irrelevant to the movie uh my understanding Of uh my understanding of what he said was uh supporting the message not supporting the movie and going to see it Hmm Let's rewind rewind 10 seconds 10 20 seconds if we want No qualms about that's a that's a very charitable interpretation.  I don't know But it just seems to be like Like that I I really don't This this is one of the biggest issues I have with like the whole interview Is is that moment because it just everything else he was saying seems to be contradictory towards that Yeah, well, I was gonna say as someone who knows him I wouldn't buy that he would say If a movie has a message you agree with therefore you should support the movie Like I don't think he would ever agree with that as a sentiment. I think he is getting he didn't say those exact words But he he essentially He didn't say the exact words in the other way I he he repeated the the common perspective being shown in other conservative media, which is Why would you have an issue against him? Why are you trying to not watch? Why would you make fun of a movie when it's about why actually have no idea what he claims his politics are? I genuinely don't know. I yeah, I don't I don't know if he's conservative or if he consumes conservative media But it's just I I don't know where that would come from unless you've seen Other people say that exact same sort of thing and or unless you you think that wrestle brand Is expecting or wanting you to say that on his program and again, I mean, you're aware of it, right? It's not necessarily conscious Well, you're aware of it, right of that being a thing that's being talked about Yeah, I wouldn't say it because it because it like it's not a criticism of like Oh, this is the types of things he's saying the types of things he's repeating, you know Um, is it just it seems it seems like something that's being said without actually Critically thinking but you know how you're like as soon as you your um your assessment is at least somewhat Uh influenced by surrounding matter, right? Yes, so is his but He's saying this in relation to the fact that the film is getting in so much trouble when he's seen it and believes It shouldn't get in any trouble at all Meanwhile, a good connection to this would be a film that claims to be very much against Of a particular subject.  Okay. It looks like in any case That's where he's coming at it from he's baffled that people would want to shittle over it because obviously that We know in the matter there's a lot of other things. It's a culture war film. It's barely get it barely gets to be considered a film I I respect that interpretation, but what he the the words that he spoke in this interview Are you know, this film is about that I and therefore I don't see why anybody should have any qualms about supporting it, right? If he if he meant something else and he just phrased himself improperly then so be it I'm reacting. Well at the very least he would say no, no, no, no, that's not what I meant I didn't mean you should support it no matter what because it has a message I will if he wants to say that's not what he meant. I will take him at his word if he wants to Correct that but like I just I Yeah, I I I get bad vibes from From that justification You know, I I do not agree with that A movie is about is something that you should have no qualms about supporting that merely the subject matter Is something that you should support That's insane.  I do not understand it at all Specifically he's talking about What their values are like I I already know he's talking about people who haven't seen it They they're talking about the film uh in a meta sense. None of them are talking about the actual films events or the filmmaking What that's that even if you go with my Interpretation of what he said then that lends itself to that as well Like I already know what what he's talking about is the people who are Shitting all over the film pushing it down without having seen it They don't they don't talk about like the events the film itself or the filmmaking They talk about the film as a whole is something you should stay the fuck away from Yeah, and he's he's saying that that that he's questioning their morals because of what the subject matter of the film is He's questioning the morals of people who don't want to see the movie or who don't like the movie I don't blame it at all for finding that strange But the thing that uh, obviously, I don't know if they're gonna Russell's already mentioned it right that the connection people make is something to do with qanon One of the actors slash produces Something like that Yeah So that's like the matter of that film It depends on what I guess I guess what you're exposed to because I haven't read every single article of people saying like Don't watch this movie or whatever that whatever they're actually saying it seems like it's probably overblown I think that there's a lot of people clowning on this movie and talking about its success I think that there's a lot of people that are mentioning that you know Some of the filmmakers are related to you know, at least qanon sympathizing sort of things Because it's fucking the internet media and of course articles are going to mention that because it's You know Jim cavizel, right? Jesus himself. I'm not surprised that Jesus himself Yeah, exactly like I'm not I'm not surprised that like articles are going to mention that or dunk on it But I'm not I'm not convinced that like I I think that it's a very Dishonest framing to Look at You know the amount of people that are making fun of it not watching it or even articles saying like oh This is dumb. Don't watch it and it might be related to qanon or whatever I think that it's that it's dishonest to take that and then be like Oh, I'm I'm concerned about your morality now because this movie is about child sex trafficking like that's What that's what he's saying in this interview if that's not what he meant then we'll have to Determine that later. I guess but That's what he's saying here and that's I take a I take issue with that I like I said would seriously doubt that he wouldn't let you know if you were to ask him But it not at all doesn't mean that he's and I think he's specifically talking about the people Who are condemning it without seeing it? but Like like for the for reasons that relate to Stuff that has nothing to do with the film. So even if Uh, he would find it bizarre to stay away from it for reasons that have nothing to do with the film necessarily But maybe not. I don't actually know what his perspective is on it entirely I'm just like okay, so we're in this conversation right now in this discord chat, right? The conversation is about my reaction to What he's saying, right? But Like and I feel like especially in this sense right here like particularly here Like I'm coming away with like a pretty literal interpretation of the words that he's saying um, and your Disagreements or your charitability in terms of like what he might be saying You're adding these other things of like oh, he's talking about those other people and all this stuff that he didn't say And so it's like well at the very least if let's say I misinterpreted him. I don't think it's Unreasonable for me to have walked away with the perspective that I did because I'm basing it on what he said not like Not these extra things that I didn't get mentioned in the conversation, right? Yeah, I get why you said that but I'm also basing my interpretation off of literally what he said I thought russell introduced it as a lot of mainstream media outlets are Shitting on the film. Why is this happening?  Did you know that at the end of the movie?   Don't worry and i've got close friends that have seen it in theaters and like ever, you know But it regardless of what the quality of the movie is it could be the best acted best directed fucking thing in the world It's just very The the conversation surrounding it.  It's about well It's about this and I question the moral of people's people Arguing against the movie because this is what it's about.  I would have watched it before today for this conversation But I couldn't find a torrent.  I'm doing a watch along for it So yeah, I I've got no context on a lot of everything. I don't even I barely have context on what people have been saying about the movie surrounding it so I can't do much for this one Most the overwhelming majority of the people promoting this film Don't say anything about the movie and just talk about how it's an important movie to see Because that's what the movie literally tells you And it's it's like a fuck. It's it's so weird. I'm not saying that critical drinker Does that I'm positive that he talks about what he liked in the film in his video I just I couldn't finish the video because he started summarizing the plot and I don't want to watch I don't want to spoil the movie.  You're just parroting what other right wing people are saying This is this is or he believes it himself Well, I mean if he does if he genuinely does believe what he said that it's still contradictory to like his whole channel Right, so I'm I'm giving him an out by saying that he's parroting what other people are saying Like that's that's me giving him an out Like I said, I think if you would speak with him, he would never say You should see films and support them based on whatever message they have that agrees with you He would he would want to appeal to the filmmaking of the execution Which I believe he would with sound of freedom. He'd say it's about the execution of that message Such that's why it would be contradictory to everything else that yeah That would be why and pc. Shit. Oh my god Like holy fuck. Were you just like waiting for the queue? Oh my god, so I'm I'm as an r.m. Brown subscriber who subscribes to his patreon I'm going to share a bit of his patreon exclusive. Do you want if we skip over the spot? Yes, yeah, and go for it. I don't okay. It's we just talk about q and on shit We talk about the people who Which I agree by the way the movie that's not in the main theater The people who say like they're trying to prevent me from seeing sound of freedom. No, I'm agreeing with you that it's silly filmmakers agree Oh, do they know the filmmakers have yeah, they've released like a statement being like Yeah, amc is not trying to prevent people from watching the movie.  I actually have like an updated I I mean I have my own conspiracy theory about it that I think is at least fun to think about It would be funny if it turned out that amc was like Fucking with people and making their experiences uncomfortable It would only be because they discovered that that's free marketing And that every time they do that some some nut job is going to come out of the theater being like You have to watch sound of freedom because they're trying to stop you That would be funny.  You'd have to concede that with the authority I would I would I would agree with the word authority for sure. You wouldn't agree with expert and that's okay I mean that's subject. I wouldn't even I don't even know that he would call himself an expert. Yeah.  Oh, yeah And or is it or additionally is it because this is a funding model Not a distribution model but a pr model that's bypassing a lot of the gatekeepers You know, they're going on podcasts that you're promoting it that tim pool I've seen talking about it, but you know, it doesn't seem to have to go through the I don't know green tomato red Tomato fresh or whatever stuff. What do you think about that? I mean, it's two folds really like it's crazy because like The fact that they're supporting this like grassroots film in it like I would love to see them support indie movies in general Like it seems like they would get what they want if they were just aware of more indie movies The movie doesn't try to make any connections to some I mean, just yeah, he does and he's making one which would be really cool Well short film, but still Should I grab a drink? Uh, it might be the only one You're okay if you want to do that. Yeah, you can you have our permission to drink I've been hearing those sodas pop open I mean, they're not well, they're they're Water they're like carbonated water things. Oh No, what are they called They're called bubblies. I used to be a liqori boy but uh Wow, you are please bubblies might be replacing them bubl y Uh, yeah bubly bubly they're pineapple pineapple one's good. Oh, that's better than our I mean, it's like Yeah, that's better. Yeah, because flavorless is nasty. Uh, I don't know how I don't see how people drink sparkling water just by itself Oh, I hate it It's so that you can spend more than poor people Oh my god I don't know. I feel like I feel like when you're at a restaurant Figure it out pretty early on like in the in the game. I feel like it wasn't didn't need a patch Water. Yeah, it's pretty good. Oh water. Yeah. Yeah. I like I like Sparkling water. I Yeah, classic water 1.0 Yeah, I genuinely think I have like some sort of ADHD because like everything I do is just for some form of stimulation I'm like, I just want the stimulating water I need my my tongue needs stimulation when I'm drinking this water. I want to crackly water Crackly. I don't know how I get fucking diagnosed at this point Impossible You know ring that's like operating at the top levels of American society or anything like that It's very much like this is stuff that's going on in, uh, Colombia Mexico that sort of thing It's just a guy trying to rescue kids from a hostile situation And that's that's really the limit of it. So it's not trying to make that connection at all Which is so weird that people seem to be getting so defensive about that. I'm too it's a cheap Okay, well what I described was not necessarily that the movie was uh trying to implicate top level people as orchestrating the Child abduction or pedophilia, but I know he's not arguing against me, but I'm just clarifying I would say as well that that Gives me more of the impression that he really is trying to say that the film itself isn't It's not proportional like the reaction to it to the film itself But it's worth considering there's loads of matter around it, of course What I'm saying. Yes. Um, and also you can probably up the speed by 0.25 Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, but in the video I decreased this the speed from oh, that's why That's why okay. Yeah, go for it. I was curious why it seemed so fast all of a sudden and I was like, oh no Isn't that political? I mean, it is very political. This movie that he's promoting is very political, but uh, yeah the uh I mean, I assume you agree the conversation surrounding the movie Yeah, because the dichotomy between like it it pertains to policy in relation to different governments and countries, but the the film itself isn't necessarily taking any shots at any particular person outside of I haven't seen it right so granted, but that's what I've heard exactly Yeah, the conversation surrounding the movie is yeah, like inherently political and it's just like it's one of those things where it's like fucking no like It seems like nobody would have seen this movie if it wasn't this big weird drama You know, yeah, I mean, there's so many indie movies that exist like as a guy that that's seen like There's I I've seen a lot of let's say like Spanish movies Where it just it clones this exact same type of or at least from what I can tell from the trailer of like Yeah, we're doing this like uh like action stereotypical thing and it's like kind of low budget like There's movies like this from what I can tell and I haven't seen it yet But from my understanding of what it is It feels like there's movies like this all the time and then this one just gets like thrust into the mainstream and just hugely successful Because there was a huge political drama about it, you know, it's it we we live in such a weird Contrarian culture where it's like well, no, we don't if you If we if you if you present the idea of like this is bad then someone's gonna be like I want to do that Or like this is good like I fucking hate that like everybody's just trying to be a contrarian. It's so annoying Yeah In this It's it's so corporatey corporately exploitative at this point in time. Although. I guess it was an independent film and not a corporation, but People are the issues with the movie are coming with the uh, unreliable narrative narrator aspect I'm getting more intoxicated as the night goes on Deep movie like it was made for like well under 20 million dollars This isn't like an indiana jones job where it's like 300 million plus god knows how much on marketing and stuff And so they don't have the budget to to do tv commercials and all the fancy advertising that you can ask for They do this grassroots stuff where they're just make themselves available to talk to podcasters and stuff Um and sell the the movie on its own merits imagine that imagine a movie the movie on its own merits like I'll watch it. I'll watch it. Don't get me wrong. I have a tough time believing based on the trailer and based on the movie that I've The the bits that I've seen like I have a tough time believing that the movie based on its own merits Is why people are like talking about it, right? It's very clearly Well, they're talking about the um The the movie makers themselves and how they've marketed it and I haven't seen any of the interviews or anything like that for it So That's true.  That's literally the end credits of the movie Well, that's the movie itself We're talking about he's talking about the way that they're going on the podcast and the the grassroots sort of advertising that they're doing Yeah, I would say that that's included that that's part of the marketing is how they put that in the film um, I mean Sure, but like I just for some reason it feels like you you're trying to find a way to disagree when Surely what he just said is perfectly agreeable, right? We would want more indie directors to be more willing to talk to different podcasters Maybe to celebrate and promote the movies I Don't disagree with that part. I was just I disagree with the idea that it's a film that Is successful because of its own merits We said they're trying to advertise it based on its own merits Uh Okay Which I couldn't I I don't know because I haven't seen these interviews and these uh these sit-downs They're having with podcasters and youtubers and things Yeah, I wouldn't know. Yeah, I I don't know if that's the exact words he said, but it's fine and I it's not anything that I need to Politically based right people are like, oh if you don't like the movie you're a pedophile It's just actually good that people watch it because hey, it's actually a really rewarding experience And it's a tackling an important issue that we should go on imagine that that's that it's almost like okay Hold on you're kind of contradicting yourself when you say it's actually good But then you say it's actually an important issue, right on its own merits Imagine that imagine a movie that's just actually good at people watch it because hey It's actually a really rewarding experience and it's a tackling an important issue that we should learn more about Is that not is that not exactly like what you were complaining about earlier when you're like Oh, it shouldn't be about like the race or gender of the character Well, so That would be something that's worthwhile, right? Like if they actually did bring in Maybe a very controversially chosen character or background, but it's actually executed really well If you had like two characters to promote one of them was standard one of them was unusual and they were both great You might choose the unusual one just to try and promote a slightly different experience Like you said about different cultural sort of things, right? And I guess he's saying that one of the aspects that celebratory is the fact that they've nailed a very important and good message But that it's not it's it's necessary to full praise but not sufficient I just I So I feel the same way by the way about a lot of movies that are my favorites if they've got like really good writing But also a really solid bit of like philosophy or messaging in them that feels like I'm more encouraged to promote it There's Okay, so The Film is like a based on a true story and it's argued, you know, just how much of it is like embellished or how much of it is like accurate um I could imagine people being like Share this because it's about an important issue if it were like an actual credible documentary or something, right?  Like I don't know if people's minds need to be changed About that or if people don't think that it's a thing that happens Like I think that that's kind of like so It would be as if fucking Derek Savage released cool cat stops the school shooting and is like Well, this is an important issue like it feels just a fringe, you know Like the movie itself should be If it were really really good though the Lorax, you know, like if it were really really good I wouldn't blame you at all for including in your review that it is an important message that we need to be more aware of How these like horrors and stuff the thing is a lot of people would probably tell you yes Of course, I know that there's a child trafficking throughout the world and stuff But they might watch the film and come away with like I didn't know it was like that and I didn't know it was that That you know, this is obviously going to be a shock of seeing it And I and I Completely agree if you want to include that as a phrase in your review about how like it's an important issue or whatever great, but I mean like that was his opening statement and it's most of what he's talked about Like to give you an example And even if even if we don't have the critical drinker as an example Like the overwhelming majority of the conversation on the internet about this movie is just They're trying to stop you from seeing this because it's an important issue and you have to see it Otherwise they win like that's it's not about the art, right? And I'm not saying that that's what critical drinkers experiences But like the the overwhelming conversation about this Is that that's why I'm taking an issue with with uh him phrasing it in this way and making these uh With him having that focus it seems I feel like the seems I wish that he went against the grain on this Well, but like the the actual like quotes that are clearly influencing how you're feeling about his quotes Like, uh, I just we gotta try and treat them as their own sort of thing as best we can, right? Like if he said something that crossed further lines, I'd be with you completely but so far He's mostly apparently talking about how he's shocked that this film is getting so controversial and so hated Despite the fact that it regards a pretty agreeable message and it does it in a very strong way. He thinks it's executed well Is that not is that not like contradictory to the movie's own merits in your opinion when you say like It's an important issue that people should know about Right. This is the exact same reason why it was critical against precious You know, I'm like, okay.  She was sexually abused or whatever like The subject matter isn't a reason to think the movie is good. Is it is this not exactly what you argue against in the rest of your videos? You know, imagine that that it's almost like that's foreign to us Yeah, therefore, it's an example, isn't it of a quite it's quite gorilla and quite radical because it doesn't have to go through The processes that typically a movie would do the amount as you described that's typically spent on advertising You know you work in independent media. I've worked in independent media and sometimes what I start to feel when I wonder if you feel the same Is they're attacking the content? They don't agree with my ideology But actually I'm starting to think what they don't agree with is us existing at all. There's more like an economic problem Oh, no, this is where people are going to spend advertising. Shit. We can't keep up with this Well, I mean put it this way like when I work here making my videos I do it's me in my office at home. I got zero percent overheads I spent zero dollars on anything And so I get millions of views because people are interested to hear what I've got to say And that's you know, this this is kind of why I don't hate the critical drinker is like he's not He's not funded by billionaires He's literally just a guy that's expressing his own opinions on movies He's expressing how he feels the industry is and even though I might take a lot of disagreements with that and you know come out With a completely different perspective.  I think that it's very important if we if we are to make like I shouldn't include make Olivia make sure you you get oh wait He can't see the url never mind my webcam's in front of it. I was about to say block the url So no one can see that video Um, I think it's important to understand why he has 1.77 million subscribers With less videos than me. He's very clearly connected with people He's very clearly connected with like a large portion of the population He's very clearly connected with some people in the industry like Russell crow He had an interview with Russell crow if you're one of my genuine opinion on why that is I think he makes very bite-sized easy to understand very dense 10 minute videos that cover Unrecommend or tell people to stay away from in a way that they can easily associate with as to the quality of current film industry it's very very Connectable a lot of what he says remember goes well beyond Whether or not things like appealing to a particular political Perspective he talks a lot about writing in a very easy to understand way in a very quick way And um one of the powers I feel like he has that I certainly don't Is uh, he could do it quickly. He could have like a thousand points stuffed into like 10 minutes Um, would you would you call him short man? Maybe I don't think he'd take it didn't take that well, but you know What is it when you're short, but you make loads? I don't know Machine gun man That's uh the fact that he had an interview with Russell grow right I think that it's important not to just completely dismiss and be like, oh, yeah You know like no one cares what you have to say like try to try to understand what he has to say Try to understand what he has to say like engage with it. Um I I disagree with a good amount of it. I agree with some of it. I don't think that he's completely wrong in everything that he says but like, you know I think that there's a bit of nuance that he's missing And that's the thing they hate where you've got like, uh, but I'm also a person that consumes art movies and goes to film festivals where he just kind of watches Marvel movies and Everything was so great up until then, but that's okay Indiana Jones and it's it's depends on how you define it. Sure.  They might not have the big production I understand someone who's as angry as him at the current state of media And I think about people that watch Russell brand I think about that, you know The my friend's sister whose boyfriend watches him. I think about that sort of person But I don't understand like making your career based off of like the media that you're watching If you're that person, I don't understand that part because it seems like you don't really Must inherently have like a very limited perspective on me with the understand with with the misconception that he wasn't seeking out many other films Which I can even even if um I mean, even if you only care about, you know, the MCU and star wars and more, you know, stuff like that You know wanting to preserve their quality or get those back on track should be pretty reasonable.  But they could say like this is what matters getting the the voice out there You know, they believe in it sort of thing Mm-hmm They're talking about things that they care about and that they're invested in that's what people want honesty Yeah, it seems like it seems like Inherently you must have like an interest that suits you more, right?   Ferrari All quiet on the western front arcane 1917 event horizon dread fight club I will say even without The best set of films even without the the other ones that he's done that's not bad We all we all have different thresholds for what we would consider to be Compared to what I imagine you went to recommends and it was just like big mainstream studio movies That are you know like he recommends fucking infinity war and then he recommends star wars rogue one or something Well, I mean like in terms of like how I don't know how to Categorize them other than by saying like that they're almost exclusively just movies that everybody's already heard of Except boiling point which I which I misattributed as hard-boiled which I I would be curious to know a percentage of people who have either seen the menu the whale all boiling point in chat right now I know the whale's been talked about but how do you actually see it? Well, here's the thing Here's the thing in your chat There wouldn't be a lot of people in my chat There would be a lot of people and that's not to say that i'm better I think that we all have different thresholds for What types of media that we're exposed to and the types of media that our audiences expect us to cover a lot of people watch me because I cover Foreign independent films and do film festival things and because they want to you know, not only just want to be exposed to more films outside of the Mainstream purview or whatever the word is not just because they want to be exposed to more But because they're already actively engaged in it A lot of the films that I wind up discovering are from people in my community that post on my subreddit being like Oh, shit. I just saw this thing at this film festival You should check it out and because I've cultivated an audience that is familiar with that And is interested and genuinely loves and pursues all of these smaller films It helps me to discover them too. It's it's just a part of my thing. So Um, I would say with the audience that critical With yeah, exactly with with the audience that critical drinker has I will agree That's that's why he has that audience Sorry, that's it's all circular. That's why he has the audience in the first place recommending things like this is what I think you interrupted me without me saying Something that you were going to disagree with I was saying even if even if he's recommending something like the whale Right, that's a good thing To his audience because it generally Um, the types of people in his audience are going to be less aware of a film like that than if they were in My audience So that's a good thing that he is exposing them to those things. And so yeah At the beginning of this conversation I completely conceded that point and that seems to make up a lot of like this But it sounded like you weren't unfortunately, but uh sounds like you disagree though Yeah, I thought I thought you said because we were saying even with this selection not including all of his other recommendations Well And then you said the just just the menu boiling point in the whale Well, the nature of them that those choices because what i'm trying to get at is that I'm gonna go through the list here on my desktop if he was to Recommend a lot of indie films that he doesn't actually know whether or not they appeal versus peppering them in with Lots of because didn't you say you want to you want to make sure you cover a lot of mainstream stuff as well Yeah, I don't I don't disagree with that and I don't criticize him for Well, I'm saying that I think he's pretty much cracked a really good ratio I'm not sure that he should push too hard and start like focusing too hard on a lot of indie stuff as opposed to I don't uh Yeah, I I Thought I conceded on this earlier, but yeah, I don't I don't expect him to uh cover the You know diverse area of films that I do I don't expect him to do that and I don't Even think it would be beneficial for his channel And I think that there's a lot of things that I might be interested in that he might not be that would be completely inaccessible for his audience Um, do you know about I kind of think about this in the same way that you know, you know the argument of like People will say like oh, you're a pipeline to like the alt-right or you're a pipeline to like fucking socialism everybody every major Person communicating on the internet is a pipeline to somewhere in some direction in the same sense that we're having a conversation right now You could argue that there's people pipelining from your audience into mine right now, right? So um, it exactly So I like like every there's there's different thresholds and there's different focal points um, and so what might be A movie that nobody's heard about In my audience Is entirely different from a movie that nobody's heard about in critical drinkers audience and i'm saying That that is not a bad thing That he is recommending those types of movies for his audience I'm just saying that I would categorize a lot of the movies in that specific search when I search Recommends on his channel and I've since learned that that is not the entirety of everything he's recommended I'm just saying that most of those are just movies that like You know, you don't need his channel to discover is all i'm saying But theoretically the people he draws to his channel would need his channel to discover them Yeah, depending on what type of media diet you have so yeah, it's not incorrect that he's recommending them It's not incorrect that he's not recommending more You know There are hard to find movies I'm just making an observation, which is you know, like the the same as just what I said Two sentences ago. I think It sounded like uh, you were saying that makes sense upon discovering that he recommended more it made it better to you But what we were trying to say was just this list alone is still pretty solid for his channel But now it sounds like you agree and you're chill with it Let's see So we get to the bottom of the word recommends one two three four I'm like i'm looking at purely based on the word recommends There's a few there's a few in there uh I wouldn't yeah, I would still agree that it's not Zero like certain channels only cover like yes big budget franchise ip movies Yes, I agree with that. I'm having uh a little bit of uh mental difficulty right now Differentiating between my personal feelings on the list and how I would consider them personally versus Uh, what it would mean to his audience the role he plays So so like what I'm saying like oh is this like a good list of movies like I can't really A lot of it is just stuff I'm either not interested in or jaded by or have seen and you know love or have seen and is bad but Uh, it's difficult to to quantify exactly How many people in his audience know of? Event horizon, you know Well, he obviously the the context we're recommending that is it's it's one of his like he loves that film Like that's why you wanted to throw that in. Yeah, even just the desire to go back to look at older films and recommend them Instead of just doing things that are coming out right now. Isn't that worth anything? Uh, yeah, but it I would say that I would say that the catalog of older films Uh featured on this channel is a little bit like borderline tropey In the same way and it's not to say, you know, the conversation we were having earlier Sarah Connor and Ripley are not bad characters because they're everyone's answer But I I always just kind of get like, you know, fuck, you know, when I see a lot of the same thing I wish for something different.  Yeah, I'm excited to watch it I might watch it tomorrow actually Wait thing everywhere a lot once the expanse ford v Ferrari all quiet on the western front arcane 1917 event horizon dread fight club blade runner Top gun maverick predator draws invincible falling down like Oh man, like you have two million subscribers I can't be that upset at somebody like that just Doesn't have the same peripheral the same purview like I don't know It just it just seems like everything that you've ever recommended is something that like You have like inherently to have known about it. Someone has to have thrown it at you rather than you discovering it and I think Because the reason why I saw the menu was just because I had time to kill and I was like, oh Yeah, I'll check that one out And I mean, I don't know why there's any reason to assume that that couldn't be the case for drinker for one of these movies Yeah, I hear about these movies in such a variety of ways and I don't I don't see why it's Bad, especially if you're drinker and you know a lot of people and a lot of people are communicating with you and you them Oh, yeah, I mean get a lot of your recommendations through there That's right at some point if you're immersed enough in uh, like Like it's it's hard to be surprised by a film that comes out like it's not going to ambush you was like Oh, I'd never heard of that at all Like it becomes harder and harder because you're just more Sort of think about what's happening. Think about how we Buy video games I think that probably over 90 percent of all the video games I buy I heard about or was encouraged to buy because a friend told me about them Because I have so many people talking about games around me recommending me games people telling me about games Posting pictures of games that they were playing that I just absorb it all from them And that then I can you know, like oh, what's everybody playing? What are they recommending me to play? What does a friend want to play with me? Um, I mean yesterday the billiards, right? What we played. What was it pool nation? Because mama was like, hey, let's play pool nation All right, let's play pool nation. So we started playing pool nation. So The reason why I got picked in four was I mean I was aware of it But when I booted up my switch, I got an ad for it. So like that's an ad actually working. I'm like, oh, yeah I might play that Which uh, I don't know if that's a good thing and to clarify myself rags and Fringy all consider ourselves pretty into video games But yet we don't tend to browse the actual like libraries and see what takes out fancy if you know what I mean No, no I already know I'm interested in so I know when it's coming out No, I'm keeping like dead space didn't surprise me, right? That was one I'd keep. I was keeping my own Um, or uh, well, I guess boulder's gate three, which I that kind of snuck up Because I wasn't really paying much attention to uh To to that game But now that one sort of but that would be another instance of word of mouth because all the heroes people talking about How much they're enjoying it? like in large numbers There's kind of interesting to see how Like you said rags the way that a game can sort of organically or a film I mean everything ever all at once right is like the most recent obvious example of word of mouth Serving to advertise a film dramatically Yeah, um, when I look at some of the the games that I play or have played somewhat recently and how I got into them I'm like, oh I Deep someone wanted to play deep rock galactic with me So I downloaded it and now it's one of my favorite games or oh I saw a youtuber playing rimworld and that looked fun So I downloaded that and that that's one of my favorite games, you know, it just happens You know that and but it's not someone's fault either the way that they receive information Especially if people are calling you about it and you have to consider drinkers backlog is going to be enormous Like uh, yeah, he's not gonna want so you like any kind of he doesn't need to discover When he's got so many things that he needs to see because they've been highly recommended by people he trusts Yeah, yeah, that's like a way of curation or like a litmus test Right, you have that's kind of the thing that we haven't talked about much, right? It's just a finite time Yeah, if I have if I'm curious to see a movie and You know, I have a backlog of 30 movies and 500 games And I get a recommendation from three People that I you know trust and whose opinions I value on something That's gonna skyrocket it to the you know near the top of the list Because of course dove, of course it would that's kind of how boiling point spread I caught it That's kind of funny actually I caught that randomly on netflix. I was just like, huh? I don't know what this is. All right I remember hearing about it because of jason flaming was an interview that I was actually there for with him and I was like, all right I did say I wouldn't mind checking out to probably see it now And then I watched it was so blown away by I showed fringing rags immediately and hyper recommended it to drinker Oh, yeah, that film didn't come out this year. It came out last year, right? I think so. I think so That film was so good It's 2021 it says Right because I was gonna say like I wonder where I'd put it on like a list if it came out this year But damn it'd be really high that film would be really really really high up on the list Everyone see boiling point. It's very good It's rated g for good I must say has he dead? That's rated r for restaurant He said he had to go pee. Maybe he's have maybe this one's a big one.  Maybe his objective Change along the way Maybe his side quest became the main quest so to speak Maybe he's shitting Who knows Are we wait are we waiting then? I don't know. Should we wait? I mean, I don't know Well, I don't know. I mean we could wait we could press forward. It depends. I guess it would Confirming factor would be He's kicking the can down the road because he doesn't know fringy There is there is no can and there is no road what I'm trying to say here is that it would depend mostly on I am in my chair.  I'm having some fun And I'm trying to explain that we should consider whether or not We have something to say to adam relating to this point That should probably be the Yeah, I mean the fundamental thing is It's okay if you don't go looking when you have this many forms of films being thrown at you I think in a way. It's like a luxury I don't have to hunt down things or look and find things and maybe take my chances I feel Fortunate that I have people who can recommend me things that are like really good Consistently, you know, I think that's that's very really mentioning by the way I don't actually know for sure that he doesn't Go looking Yeah, I have no idea very possible This is a lot operating under the assumption that he only does take recommendations, which I mean like with me and my like the video games that I get is it really is like over 90 percent I can't remember the last time. I just like randomly found a game And it was like, oh, I'll play this when I know that I have all of these recommendations already In a wish list already that's built from those recommendations and people constantly saying hey rags If you played this that and the other you're like, oh, no I feel like if he was peeing he'd be back. I know maybe we should just carry on I don't think maybe he has a maybe he has a lot of pee It's almost two million subscribers, right? I don't know. I'm trying not to be like super pretentious about this, but like If you care about film if you care about art, right like like showcase Showcase some people like That's not the determinant though and whether or not you care about art, right? And he does and express that in a wide amount of ways Yeah He also does and I don't I don't think um why is he even aware of his second channel He does a lot of promotion of all kinds of different things there and then obviously podcast stuff as well And if you're his size and you really do care about art, it makes a lot of sense to focus on a Huge amount of your attention let's say Let's say potentially all of your attention on the most influential and biggest media in popular culture at the moment, right? If you do care about art makes tactical sense that that would be what you go after most Because that's what's most that's what most people are watching and uh ingesting Introduce people to new artists I'm not saying that those aren't good films night of the world. I'm not saying that there aren't good films within what he recommended there I'm saying that they're all just Films that you can't possibly have known about without them being thrown at you is the problem I think you might be surprised the purpose of being a film recommend I feel I just I just struggle to buy it like you can have a really good diet Even if you're only getting things thrown at you because that's kind of the point of yeah, I mean I'm subscribed to why in this to help me catch movies. I buy a missed otherwise, you know, I mean They've thrown at me by him I mean you recommend in Movies to me and we watch those constantly, you know based on your recommendations or your curiosity or things that you've been Recommended and then we end up watching together and I feel like I have a pretty healthy film diet We watch a a good variety of things. We don't really rule much out in terms of what we watch So, I mean what were the last three movies we watched? It was Casablanca a time to kill And What was the one before that? I'd have to check out we watch a lot of movies We do I forget what the third their last one was Going by those things was in a bridge too far Yeah, oh, yeah, I think it was yeah, so it was a bridge too far Casablanca and a time to kill where the last three movies We watched all on Recommendations to some degree so all mainstream in their time Not so much mainstream. I guess right now. I don't know how you'd put that Adam you back I am great We're talking about your discoverability point What did I say that uh You you thought that for a person who cares about the art and for a person with two million subscribers You should be going out to discover movies rather than just having them all thrown at him Uh, yeah, again conceded point based off of me searching the word recommends and not realizing that he recommended far more than You know the videos with just that word in the title. Okey dokey mender, right like I'm pissed at myself for being so Far behind on my yearly list reviews like I feel like that's part of where I shine I'm trying to reorganize myself in a way where like I can Continue doing 2016 2017 all those things like I gotta cut back on how many things I include in a year um, my biggest problem is you know, like I started including like mini series and shit like that like don't worry. It'll come I've been figuring it out But like I find a lot of value in like Introducing people to things that they wouldn't have heard about without me where as I don't know if such a thing exists on this guy's channel and I'm not trying to feel like Oh, I'm such a better person because my film taste is more Unique or abstract, you know like I don't know I just I just feel like If you're touting yourself as like I know what types of things that people should be watching if you're touting yourself as like Mainstream things are bad and I know what people should be doing like I would kind of expect that you would like You know Two million subscribers almost I would kind of like hope That you're introducing people to new things and not just saying like the menu You know like just you don't like the menu or do you think this is too mainstream? um Yeah, I explained earlier uh You know different channels and different audiences will have different thresholds for What they consider to be a movie that they've never heard of or you know being exposed to different things And him recommending the menu is not a bad thing. Uh, that is a uh, yeah Just things that like everybody first impressions sort of like I think you know I think everybody kind of has this in them Everybody that talks about like media There's always kind of like this um Like I guess judginess in everybody about like the types of media that other people consume or the types of media that other People would consider to be like a hidden gem You know like that gets made fun of on on reddit So I'm gonna be like oh, I just heard of this like hidden gem called fight club People people will say like like no, but everybody everybody that cares about art has this to some extent I should assume that to some degree you have it to some degree the critical drinker has it like maybe I don't know if It's something it's something that you know just being self reflective that I'm trying to keep in check um Because I've seen that uh appear in toxic ways You know from a variety of different people, you know like criterion heads will Uh Criticize people for you know not watching enough like foreign films or something like that um But yeah, I mean like yeah, it's a I don't I don't really stand by that Point it was just uh, yeah fair. Um genuine question like an eight hour stream and uh, yeah, how do you feel about like the Ascentage of the coverage you've given is remain solid It depends if we're talking runtime or points runtime runtime Well runtime and point whatever the answers of both I'd be curious what your answers are both runtime Somewhere in the 60s um a huge amount of uh the video is uh the um, you know with with the misconception of him not Uh recommending enough of other things to his audience Uh, you know It's one point, but it makes up a huge amount of the video because I get hung up on it um In terms of points I don't know how many get brought up in the video What are they like so far like less than 10? um Because it all seems to be under the same Like repeated points, um and again I should mention Uh When doing this reaction stream, I didn't you know, I didn't come up with a premise and then start streaming Um, I didn't I didn't go like oh here's what I want to get out of the video I kind of just saw where it took me um, I provided some context as to what uh You know my limited perspective with his channel was before reacting to it and also like it as much as much as it is Um an exploration of trying to see how much of it conforms to those predisposed Uh Assumptions or or I guess predispositions is a better word as as much of it is Uh A way of me seeing how much it conforms to that. It's also a way of me seeing um, how much of Uh Other people's criticisms feel unwarranted because as I mentioned at the very beginning beginning of the video Um, I feel like he has gotten a bunch of criticism online that has been unwarranted And I feel like a lot of the times when people are just like mad at someone because they're conservative or something Uh, they kind of stretch to find Uh reasons to dislike someone which I don't think I was doing here like my my Any misinterpretations that I've made were not like because I was operating in bad faith They were just like oh, okay I didn't realize that he had other videos where he didn't include recommends in the title Which made up I don't know 40 of the whole video, uh, you know So I don't know.   What do they even call them? Broke an attack video or something like I don't know. I didn't like Hit piece. Thank you. Um, you know, I didn't I don't think that I made that and I don't think I definitely didn't set out to make it Some people, you know, whenever there's any kind of disagreement on the internet, especially if it it's disagreement between like Political or worldviews or even perceived political or worldviews?  It's like, I don't know if that's what I was doing I kind of just I kind of just disagreed with some things and yeah, sure there are moments where I'm like, that's crazy But that's like the majority of it is just me being like, well, you're right But there's more to it than that, you know, so If if we're including points that I'm making As not just criticisms, but things I'm agreeing with then I mean like, yeah A lot of the overwhelming majority of it stands because we don't half of the video is just me agreeing with him But providing more context anyway, so So my perception is that it's um a lot of the major points that are critical of drinker lack Significant context that can completely alter them and that this is basically the main source Of yms and his opinion on the critical drinker as a youtuber, which culturally speaking Isn't too useful um, it's unfortunate at best and uh, we can we can keep going of course. I'm just curious if Do you have any preference beyond that or would you rather just be considered? This is a casual stream and that's all it should be treated as What do you mean a lot of people could see this and point to this and share it as this is this is one of the most respected film critics Breaking down everything that's wrong with drinker Um I don't know if that's what I did and I don't even know if that's what the takeaway from the audience is Like there's tons of people in the comment section on my video that are just like, oh, yeah, I like them both Um, I understand this or blah blah blah blah I think you know Something that I try to be in something that I feel like a lot of people got from it um, is that I came in fair and with an open mind and uh good faith and You know, I'm willing to hear people out. Even if I misinterpreted some things I think that that's kind of inevitable not only from You know having limited perspectives on Anything but also just the nature inherent nature of it being a live stream format um So I don't know I I I I guess I misunderstand your question, but yeah, like it's this isn't this isn't like a uh An essay video. No, I know. Um, I guess I'm lamenting on the fact that I think the the two of you could easily be Uh in good communication, but this would be seen as like You're condemning him along with many as as the kind of character that a lot of people assume that he is I feel like at the very least I'm providing context as to why people assume that he's this way I feel like it like as much as I have to learn from Uh, you know your defense of him and these clarifications of things that he said or maybe he means but didn't say um, you know I can I can take away a lot from that I'm hoping that you know the broader community or his fans or him or you Also take away like okay. Well, you know That the way that the he phrases some of the titles It's no surprise that people come away with that impression or the way that he responds to some of these questions in the interviews like again, this is one interview Uh, that's what my video was based on. Um But it doesn't seem to be like an inconsistent issue in terms of like how he could Uh, Clarify or phrase himself or the types of the types of caricatures that people paint him as I don't think they just came from fucking nowhere They're not like oops like this could just happen to like any youtuber And I'm not saying he deserves it and I'm not saying that he intentionally feeds into it But if he's trying to avoid that sort of caricature, I think that this whole conversation Can provide at least some food for thought as to You know self-reflection of like, okay, maybe how could I avoid? You know this miscommunication or this Misunderstanding happening in the future pretty much everything I've ever been heavily criticized over on the internet I've made some pretty, you know pretty detailed Uh, clarifications for and you know engaged pretty thoroughly with um But again, I haven't seen all this content. I haven't seen any interview Uh Well, yeah, we'll just have to see What curiosity will this go but yeah, what we're doing today. Will that be going on your clips channel? Highlights, why not? No, would you like it too? I mean, I think it works as clarification, right? I mean, I think that this coverage would um supersede this video I feel like you've been way more detailed. I mean, I Yeah, I I'm comfortable with that and I was intending on it. Um at the very least linking to your video Um Yeah, I I assumed That that would yeah, okay. I'll be able to highlight this Already knows about like I don't know. Maybe this is a weird criticism, but yeah Well, I know he pays me to do this as such like, you know, I don't have relationships with studios I can damage by sliding off their movie and that's the thing I can just be honest about it But I always try to be fair That's why I always want to be I don't want to just hit on a movie because like it's made by a director I don't like whatever be fair. That's all I expect from what I do I'd hopefully people People understand that and that's why they watch my videos because I'll give an honest opinion about things In the Indiana Jones one you listed movies where you sort of where you were wrong You said like I fought Dungeons and Dragons wouldn't be any good and you were wrong about that I feel like even some of the uh, Disney TV shows you've sort of gone. Actually, that's pretty good And you know, so you've like I guess that's your point about all fantasy being a currency And in fact, this is a border point He didn't think Dungeons and Dragons would be good and then he enjoyed it But the problem is like He's still only seeing movies like Dungeons and Dragons, right? You need principles if you have a principle then sometimes that principle is going to cost you sometimes He's not he's not he doesn't really have a healthy media diet Stop it support you but it remains consistent I know it's past Adam.  I'm afraid we're gonna move right along And then when you're Another country, I love you guys are the same thing Yeah, you mean close the bombs like that idea, but yeah, I mean, it's it's like, uh, yeah I sometimes I'll watch the trailer for a movie. I'll get my thoughts on it and like make some predictions about what the film's gonna be like Sometimes I'm right almost this time. I am but sometimes I'm wrong and like I'm happy to admit that if a movie I go and watch it and it's better than I expected. I'm a happy man because I got to watch a good movie So that's okay as far as I'm concerned. So yeah, for me, there's nothing wrong with admitting that you occasionally call it wrong That's well, I mean again, this is the problem my subjective anecdotal experience with the critical drinker is like people that would otherwise not Be subscribed to any channel that talks about movies if it wasn't for them talking about like, oh Things are bad now Things are bad now because the people are trying to make you be a thing Okay, as long as you're you're honest with people What about do you sometimes get a bit um, let's say super charged by the like, you know, if something isn't If I want a better term woke, do you think oh my god, do you think it almost gets an extra bit of juice because of that? I'm talking about films like maybe um, you know maverick or the even and the mario brothers movie just Oh Even though the mario bros movie got fought over as to whether or not it's woke I love the anti woke crowd Gravitating towards the mario brothers movie that was so funny.  It's a thing. It's a thing And I don't know why they're like mario brothers being successful is is it Is a stab against the woke mob like virtue of the fact that it's not like I find it It's just mario. It's super popular thing that exists in the world Like I don't know why it was so surprised It's a very apolitical movie Well, I mean it's it's illumination, right? It's like super duper safe In terms of like what it's trying to be as a film can very conventional from a storytelling standpoint crowd-pleasing It's just a very normal kind of movie Think that by not having the kind of Even though I mean You know luigi was captured for most of the movie and princess peach wasn't and she was helping I get your highlight and how that discussion went down a lot of people talking about whether or not that makes it woke or not It was that's just a thing that happened mario like you could say that that's just as woke You could say that that's a very feminist movie Honestly the mario brothers movie But it seems to have split a lot of conservative commentators because it was successful and they're like Oh, yeah, this was successful because it wasn't woke Lag the wokeness can um apply because it prevents as to use for one example a character from having a meaningful arc Because they're already presented as perfect on the basis of identity We shouldn't be what's presented at the center of a film and if it's free to that it's a little bit better Or do you think that you're sort of off and god bloody mario brothers isn't doing that and you get excited There's the initial emotional reaction of like, oh this movie doesn't fucking hate me because I'm like a straight white man It's a pretty bold thing to say about the mario movie, right? It is funny to say it about the mario movie That seems like kind of out of nowhere right Again The conversation around the film like he's on wrestle brand.  Well, yeah, this is obviously said with a lot of baggage that if you're not familiar with then Yeah, but but I like the baggage itself kind of speaks towards like again media diet and then like the the interpretation of that media, you know like how How how many movies and pieces of media do you think exist? In terms of the overall landscape of even studio films Where you watch it and you feel like you're hated because you're a straight straight white male The correct answer would be like like studio movies even I Genuinely wouldn't know how to answer that. I assume it's going to be below like fucking five percent maybe ten whatever But the true answer is too many And so that's obviously what he's appealing to but I would never phrase it that way I assume he's trying to be a little tongue-in-cheek because it is mario Yeah, I guess so it's just you know Someone if someone sees that then it just makes it seem like that's that's like the focus And if you're saying like maybe he might agree with us that it's like under five percent Of even studio movies, right To like be asked about the mario movie and then like that's your answer Like sure it could be a joke or something, but it's like again We're kind of we're kind of like learning a bit more and more about like why he might be misinterpreted in certain ways Um, you know how you know how I use the word propaganda.  That's why Yeah, exactly in a certain way You can kind of you can kind of predict how some people might react to certain things So like I don't know if I don't know if he cares or if it's a part of his goal at all to not be Misrepresented in the ways that he's currently been But that would be something to consider right is like if you're asked about the mario movie You don't know your first the first thing you say isn't well this movie doesn't hate me because I'm a straight white male But again, uh, could you buy the fact that that's that's the the comedic sort of spin on this that we're actually at that point That he's like that's the first thing I'm gonna highlight like he's obviously got more to say on he has a whole video on it And I don't know I I know But it but it again if If it represents like less than five percent of the movies that exist, I don't know if it does seem like kind of a weird thing to Be focused on to the point where that's what you're saying about the mario movie Like I said, I think it's funny, but uh There's this comedic elements to the fact that he's he may be doing on purpose But if he's not if he's very sincerely saying that's that was enjoyable about mario didn't hate me for being a white male It's funny as fuck because mario is just such a harmless plumber running through a cartoon world like the idea of Hating people for their race doesn't really come into it from my perspective. Yeah, I mean Of course he's saying it with like comedic Sensibilities like of course he's saying it like as part of a joke um It's just a matter of like You can still say a joke and kind of just play into The type of program that you're on and the type of thing that you know, but he does consider a program might want to He does consider it something worth fighting back on wherever he feels he can make reference to it, right like the Noxious attitudes in hollywood and I assume that's part of what the broad conversation was supposed to be about with russell as well Do you feel like that's every movie you criticize like it hates you because you're a straight white man like jesus christ I understand I understand and agree with a lot of the points that you make in terms of like Damn like a lot of these new writers sucks.  Would you feel justified in feeling like every movie that you watched?  That is going to be a question for him to answer, but I don't think he would say yes I think he would be like point to the movies back then that had sentiments within them that related to like The sort of black women are to blame for x yz Yeah, um when I uh made that statement I misattributed his uh his response as being That he feels as though he's hated because of uh The way that things are shifting in terms of representation in my brain As a person that's not constantly watching marvel studio movies I was not thinking of whatever like I haven't seen it But like what she hulk is that a movie is that an example?  Sure.  There's a lot of nonsense There's a lot of like hey member berries and there's a lot of people that aren't talented working on movies that shouldn't be but but to say that like The media landscape is like oh I watch a movie and I feel like I feel like I'm hated for being a white male like that's kind of that's It's kind of like an exaggerated sort of reactionary feeling towards just seeing more Inclusivity or more. He's definitely that's not like why you're saying that and I think you just said you you understand that, right? Yeah Representate like the same kind of shit that Russell brand was talking about like I don't know 20 minutes ago or whatever in the podcast like he was saying he has two daughters He was saying he doesn't want to see like every single main character being a white man He was asking you a genuine question of like how do you reconcile with the fact that like Maybe there are people that want to see more of this type of person like I don't know I don't know I I can understand that there are some examples of films that you have Where it might be like okay this specific scene it's like okay This person like writing this obviously hates white people obviously hates men But to act as though that's the media landscape right now to act it it it doesn't speak towards Media it speaks towards your media diet.  Uh No, no, I wouldn't because I I would have the exact same Opinion if it were any gender any race.   It makes it seem like he doesn't think it's like a small percentage of I'm sure he would agree that it's When he says change of pace the implication is that it's like the exception to the norm to not be hated as a straight white male, right?  Yeah, you're right. It is not in the majority And I don't even think that he would say it is in the majority if we actually like laid out the majority of studio films I doubt he would list them all as like they hate white men But he would still probably say like it's gonna influence his perspective more significantly than it is present Yeah, and I wouldn't blame anybody for that of any race and gender That's a nice way to to justify why he said that but like it's not what he's he said Right. Yeah. No all I've done is try to explain why he may have said that despite the fact that he probably doesn't believe it to be that way literally Okay That doesn't speak towards film culture or films that speaks towards the types of films you consume specifically and your experience with those films That's an that's an insane thing to say You try to be um, you try to break the movie down like into its component parts and say well, okay This one I enjoyed why did I enjoy like was the plot good with the characters good? Whatever, so you try to be a bit more objective about it. Um, but it's also possible This is an interesting discussion about um, it's possible for something to be woke by the normal standards But also be good if it's well written that the example I've given before is a tv show called arcane which puts forward This is very interesting and I agree a lot of what we would consider to be war politics Like a lot of extremely not that I finished arcane. I found it very boring, but um, you know Uh, really you did Everybody keeps saying everybody's like oh you gotta watch until episode three. I'm sorry Maybe sometime when I feel like watching how boring Episode one and two are So you well, they're not boring. Oh wait. You stopped after two it was to me So so if I found episode one boring then clearly the show is not for me if people who like it didn't find Oh, that's such a shame. I I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I wanted to like it I went in wanting to like it didn't happen I've tried my best Just you know one day if you want to try again Watch two episodes three I will say and I think we said this on our coverage episode one and two were the sort of slowest But in retrospect once completing the season and doing it over to get notes I started to realize how valuable episode one and two were There's a lot of stuff in there that I don't think you'd realize at the first time through necessarily how important everything That's getting set up is there There are like hour-long episodes right like 40 minutes or something. Yep. Yeah Like but it's not an episode. There's so many other things. I gotta watch The one thing I'll say I know you probably watch it anymore You've probably heard this before but one thing I'll say is I feel like you'd be impressed with the way episode three goes Um, like it's relatively subversive. You don't see that often especially in big productions like that. Um, There's a reason why everyone says get to three Do it I want to pimp out a movie right now. It's called hundreds of beavers and I just watched it a week ago At fantasia and it might be at a couple other film festivals before Some sort of maybe theatrical run eventually on digital Maybe it'll be on digital at the end of the year.  It's a very very funny slapstick comedy Uh With modern sensibilities and editing and very self-aware Uh, yeah, all right. That's that's that's one of those like every film festival. I see I see You know a handful of movies where I'm like, this isn't even just appealing to like me. This is like damn I'm gonna show this to everybody, you know So funny I'll keep a note Plast struggle at oh god. It's woke because there's gay relationships in it. God damn.   If I don't want to watch all of his videos, but I want but you want to make a good case for things that he's done Sure, uh, I assume you don't mind if I do that maybe tomorrow Or after we do this maybe Because right off the top of my head. I'm not sure what I would choose, you know Hello All right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'd take your time Be considered woke in other movies because it's widely handled, but it's extremely well integrated into a really good story in that tv show And so okay, well you contradicted what you said you said it's woke But it's still good and then tech 10 seconds later you said it might be considered woke in other movies But it's not in this like what do you be considered woke in other movies because it's widely handled But it's extremely well integrated into a really good story So it's not woke if it's well integrated, but you just said it was woke but still good I feel like that is a little bit tangled up. Um, I'd be curious to know what he would say Straighten this out. Hey, hey, this is an example of say progressive politics or progressive ideology done well It can be done, but you've just got to write it well. That's what we look for a good story I think that's the part you should take away from all of that All right, don't use it instead of yeah, I mean, that's the that's the part we don't disagree on Yeah Yeah, I agree. Don't use it instead of structure I agree in the sense that if you are pushing a political agenda You know, it doesn't matter whether you're left or right like if that replaces your characters if that replaces your script I agree with a lot of like the sentiment of what is being said in a uh, you know a principled way, but For for the critical drinker to be like, oh, yeah sound of freedom and like I'm gonna watch it. Don't worry. I'm gonna watch it, but like I don't know I don't know that's a little that's a little bit It seems like a bit of a contradiction there I'll watch it. I'll watch it. We'll see. We'll see what I feel about it when I watch it, but Matrix is a good example. So obviously of how sort of different ideals and identity transcendent of homogeneity and heterodoxy presented as Aspirational and cool. And then the house keys, of course, which house keys Like uh, like I had a sort of uh, obviously the was house keys was house keys Was house keys Like, you know, the trajectory of those movies like that maybe that's something for you to talk about But also like again with my personal position as a father of girls and also as a person that do Mike was asking stories for everyone. There should be stories for everyone I think this is him asking the second time. Okay You know to sort of use the phrase from which your name is derived Like I want things to reward me and to make sense, I suppose So, um, would you touch on like, you know, sort of the matrix and the house keys or whatever if I'm saying the name, right? And also what films would I direct to my girls?  Oh, whatever. I'm like, oh my daughter's watching that. You know what I mean? So Oh my god I love that Russell brand is like actually trying to like Get him to answer the real questions here I'm like actually very impressed with Russell brand here because he's very much saying like, hey My girls are growing up and like all this old media is not really reflecting like Their experience and so he's like this is the second time he's asked him this question He didn't really answer it the first time to be fair. This is a different question The first question was what are we to do? Yeah, because the first question he said We got all these strong female women. What are we supposed to do? Like what uh, how we to fix this problem and drink it like I said was talking about we cracked it pages ago Writing dynamics now. He's asking him. What can they watch that's already out? That isn't something like bad simpson episodes where they're critical of women or something By the way, I'd love to know which ones he's talking about. Uh, we're because even if Bart shits on girls in an episode He probably doesn't I don't think the episode supports that sort of stuff Lisa is the most relatable character in the show.  How Who's who's more relatable? Well, I mean you could point easily to Bart as being relatable like Bart gets an F.  Bart gets an F. He captures a hell of a lot of like younger boys. Yeah I mean, I just again. I just point to Bart gets an F Like what is that? It's an episode where he becomes really really really upset After feeling that he tried his hardest and he still failed at school Like I think I think I would imagine there's plenty of people who would feel that that's relatable And then there's also a general idea that like Bart does care about his family and sometimes because he's selfish or self-focused or He just wants to be cheeky that he ends up hurting the people that he cares about There's there's more than a few episodes that relate to him disappointing marge and that being something that he struggles with And then of course you've just gone home or is like home is relatable as uh as a sort of you know middle-aged uh Homer feels like indulging your id which is why he's relatable like you watch him make decisions This is a very interesting perspective because I thought it was like pretty unanimous that Lisa was the most relatable character I mean, I would say that Lisa obviously I'd say that's one of the strengths of the simpsons Is all of the characters are relatable in some sense It's just she's like the most grounded. She's like the the audience member.  Well, I think what we're discovering is that you find your most reliable, right? Which is fine. I see we're discovering you find it the most reliable, which is totally fine. Yeah. Yeah, of course Time all right, so so rewind rewind a tiny bit and let's just reaffirm that he's asking the question now What movies should my daughters watch if they want to see more representation and see themselves reflected in media We agree that that's the question. Oh my god I love that Russell brand is like actually trying to like Get him to answer the real questions here I'm like actually very impressed with Russell brand here because he's very much saying like hey My girls are growing up and like all this old media is not really reflecting like Their experience and so he's like this is the second time.  Let's let's just assume that he's gonna say Ripley and Sarah Connor again. Let's see if he says anything else. Yeah, like you've got this already our mov