So first I applaud your enthusiasm for embedded vulnerability analysis because you know who cares how this badge works and what cool stuff is on it right so I'll probably go there after my talk but anyway I'd like to give a big thanks to my colleague Mike Costello who's going to help run the demo. My name is Ang Tui and I'm presenting Frack the firmer reverse analysis console and actually I gave this talk yesterday at black and I ran out of time a little bit so I'm going to make this talk small so I can or short so I can give you guys a really long cold demo of all the stuff I didn't get to show yesterday. Who am I? What I do? I'm some guy. I go to Columbia. I'm a co-founder of a company called Red Bullen Security. I write academic papers sometimes about the defense and exploitation of embedded systems and on the offensive side you know I like to do some tinkering with these devices. Last year I presented a root kit at blackhead that ran on a large number of Cisco IOS router images in an OS agnostic way and a few months ago I discovered the HPR few arbitrary firmware modification vulnerability. So just out of curiosity how many of you guys have heard that or heard about that? Good. How many of you guys went out and updated the firmware to your printers? One? Okay this is the right crowd. How many guys went out and updated the firmware to other people's printers? All right good. Excellent. As part of the presentation I did for our chaos communication congress I wrote this root kit for this laser jet printer that turned it into among other things a reverse IP proxy. Now this is useful because once I compromise this printer through a malicious print job I can then use this reverse IP proxy to tunnel through the corporate firewall, the perimeter firewall and using that printer to compromise machines inside the protected network. And in fact my demo used Metasploit I just auto-poned in through this proxy printer to own machines inside the protected environment. And I started working in a third embedded device type which will remain unnamed for now and I realized that my workflow for this type of thing looks pretty similar. The stuff I did for Cisco IOS root kit and the HP laser jet root kit and even the work that I do on the defensive side for red balloon security usually starts with this. It starts with the analysis of the original binary firmware image that I get from the vendor. If you think about it this is really useful if you want to understand how this mysterious embedded device works, how if there are vulnerabilities inside and how you can protect these embedded devices against exploitation you really want to run some useful analysis on the code and the data that reside on these devices. That says firmware analysis by the way. And by useful analysis I mean static analysis, dynamic analysis, tank tracking, symbolic execution, vulnerable library identification. These are things that we as security researchers know how to do fairly well for general purpose computers but of course we're working in the embedded space where things are a little bit more complicated. In order to do this for embedded devices you're going to have to go through this laborious terrible process called guess what the proprietary firmware format is and unpack it reverse engineer that. And only when you finish doing that can you really get to the part where you start doing useful analysis on the binary, on the data and the code. And every single vendor uses a different former packing format. It's all security through obscurity. This doesn't buy them any security at all really. But what it does mean is that for security researchers to look at this code and data you're going to have to spend a lot of time reverse engineering through these mysterious file formats. And like I said every vendor is different but you know I generally start the process by trying to find something that serves as a package manifest. Some binary header that tells me how many records are contained in the firmware image. And there's generally more than one. The sizes of these records maybe they'll give me some hint about what they do and how they're encoded etc. But not always. Once I figure this out I go out and I extract the binary records. And for every single one I have to figure out whether the record contains data or code. Whether this is obfuscated in some way, compressed in some way, encrypted in some way. And for every record I need to figure out whether there's a checksum algorithm or digital signature attached to it. And when I've done this I'm actually not done because this is not a single step process. It's recursive. Right? Because if you think about it a lot of times when you unpack a binary image often times you'll find another packed image inside that unpacked data. So for example suppose you extract a binary record that holds the boot image for an embedded device. Often times you find some code and inside that unpacked data you're going to find let's say a compressed binary record that contains the root file system for the device. So you really should think about this as a recursive process where the root of the tree is the original binary firmware and you're recursively expanding down the tree until you extract every single binary record. And when you're finally done, when you finally get to this place, this is when we can actually start doing some useful analysis on the software and the data that lives on these devices. And if you do what we do at Rebellion Security you're also interested in modifying the firmware. Changing the device behavior. You know, be it for offensive purposes like making a root kit or for defensive purposes like injecting whole space defense into these embedded devices. If you want to make modifications you're going to have to essentially do this entire repacking process. Everything you did for the unpacking you have to do in reverse recursively up this tree repacking every single record until you get to the top of the tree where you get a single binary image that contains all a packed version of all the modified code and data that then you can put onto a physical device for testing. So I did this a few times and I started thinking about where I spend most of my time, what's efficient, what's not efficient, what I can do better. So for, you know, whether I'm doing offensive work or defensive work, I usually start by, you know, figuring out how I want my payload to work. I spend some time designing it. I spend some time implementing it. Spend some time testing it. But this is by far not where I spend the majority of my time and not how I spend my Friday night. Most of the time I spend when I do this type of work is playing this terrible game called stare at the binary blob until I figure out the proprietary format of this firmware image. To give you guys an idea of what I'm talking about, this is what I do on Friday night, right? So here's a typical printer firmware image for an HP laser jet printer. You know that this contains code and data that's really useful for analysis, but in order to get anything useful out of it, you're going to have to start figuring out what the purpose of all of these bytes are, right? So for example, do I get a cursor here? Can you guys see that? You know, you can see here, this is some ASCII header, right? That's easy to understand.  So this kind of looks like a table. You know, this is good. You have to figure out what the actual format is, but you know, that's looking pretty promising. And then after that, when you get to somewhere around here, the data gets really random and you know, who knows what's in there. It could be code. It could be data. And if you have stared at this blob for as long as I have, you'll know that 789C is the header for a compression algorithm that I'm not allowed to name. But the point is, you're going to have to spend a lot of time staring at this thing to figure out how you can actually do some useful analysis on this data.  It wastes a lot of time is laborious. You have to do this for every device vendor and every time, every time you do it, you know, the process is the same, but it's different and it takes a lot of time. And the thing about it is, this doesn't actually push embedded security forward at all. This is just the hard work that you have to do in order to get yourself to a place like here where you can actually do something useful for embedded security. Now, wouldn't it be great if we had a tool or some automation that reduced the amount of time that we have to spend here so we can start concentrating on making, doing useful work here. And that's exactly why I wrote Frac. Frac stands for the Firmware Reverse Analysis Console. It's essentially a software framework that allows security researchers who want to get into the embedded game to get into this easily without having to spend a lot of time in starting the binary blob purgatory. And all of this code is going to be open source very soon, so I'm not going to talk about implementation level details and how it works. I want to give you guys a high level view of the different components of Frac. There are four major engines and these engines are modular in design and it very closely mirrors the workflow that I just talked about. On the left side, you have your unpacking and repacking engines. These engines are the firmware format dependent portion of Frac which has been minimized as much as possible. So here's an example. The Cisco iOS unpacker, for example, is responsible for unpacking a Cisco iOS image from the vendor, extracting the binary records in an unpacked form into an intermediate format that Frac knows how to manipulate. And then you have your corresponding repackers too that does obviously the opposite of what the unpacker does. Now, this is the firmware format dependent part. Here on the right side, you have your modification engine and your analysis engine. These modules are the firmware format agnostic part. So think about it. Let's say you wrote a symbolic execution engine to look for bugs for Cisco iOS. Now, wouldn't it be great if you could do that? You can use the same code, not on Cisco routers today, but on HP printers tomorrow. And with Frac, you can absolutely do that. So here is the workflow that I just talked about in Frac World. Let's say I'm working with Cisco iOS images. I use the firmware format dependent unpacker module. This module extracts every single record into an intermediate format. And then send those records over to the modification and analysis engines to do whatever analysis and modification I like. And you can do this in an iterative cycle. So for example, you can use the output of an analysis module as input to a modification module. And you can do this for as many cycles as you like. Now, when you're satisfied with the results of your analysis and your modification, you then send these records back to the repacking engine, right? Which then will spit out a single iOS image in this case that you can then slap onto a CF card and test it on your physical router. And we're going to show you this in our demo.   And I know that other people have super cool wheels and I don't want to reinvent that. So the analysis engines very closely integrate with tools that we already use every day for security analysis, right? Tools like IDA Pro. Everything that you've written as far as IDA automation, whether it be dynamic or static analysis, automatically integrates with frac as it is today. I've also integrated bin walk into a lot of the auto analysis features, which you'll see in the demo. And apparently I'm working on integrating MATLAB for some of my own analysis that has to do with entropy related stuff, which I'll also show in the demo in a few minutes. Decay stands for console. And there is a very bare bone minimal tool, GUI, that the user can use to unpack, modify, explore, repack these binary images in real time. But frac is just a software framework and you can call it through library calls. And for example, this is all the code you would need to run in order for frac to unpack a Cisco iOS image. Identify a particular string inside that image. Replace it with whatever you like and then repack that image into an iOS image that has all of the proper checksums calculated, et cetera, that you can then slap onto a router, a physical real router for testing. So, you know, this is my workflow without frac. And in a lot of ways I consider this just the dark ages of embedded security analysis. This is my workflow with frac. I spend a lot less time staring at the binary blob and I spend a lot more time doing useful work as far as analysis and modification. You know, things that I think actually pushes embedded security forward. And this is what I hope frac will do for the community. I hope frac will allow security researchers who want to get into this game to get into this game easily without having to spend a lot of time staring at the binary blob. And I hope frac will collectively save the community some time so we can all just stop wasting our time with that and start getting on with making useful contributions to furthering embedded security. So, blue through the talk, Mike is going to start the demo. We're going to show you guys frac in action. And we're going to start by loading up a Cisco iOS image. This is something you can just download from Cisco. Here we're using a 7200 router image. All right, so this is a frac console. And as soon as Mike loads the frac or the iOS image into frac, frac is going to actually run a lot of auto analysis modules that tries to determine as much as possible the nature, the content of the binary record that we just loaded. So, at this point, we haven't told frac that this is an iOS image. So, you'll see as soon as Mike runs the load command, a bunch of auto analysis modules are going to run. And it's going to give us some useful information about what this firmware image that we're working with is. So, notice first that the entropy, every binary record inside frac, I automatically go out and compute the average entropy value for the binary. So, this value is anywhere between zero for non-random to eight, which is completely random. It's a modified binary Shannon entropy function. I also noticed that frac found out that this contains a MIPS header and actually has a MIPS ELF image at the header of this thing. So, this is kind of strange, right? Because, you know, we'll have a very random file that's large. We also have an auto header. So, we're going to use the Cisco iOS unpacker on this image. And this creates three children records, right? Each one of those records will have its own auto analysis done for it. So, you notice that the first record is this very small executable code that contains an ELF record that has, um, its MIPS is beginning. But the second record, very large, right? This is, um, it contains a Zlib, uh, or PK zip header. So, we're going to use the generic PK unpacker to extract that record. And this is the meat of, you know, iOS. This is the unpacked binary that you want to modify if you want to change the behavior of this router. Uh, another thing I want to show you is some very cool things that for, as far as analysis goes, you show them the, um, the entropy map for the boot loader. So, oftentimes, you know, you're going to look at a binary record and you're not exactly know what the structure of the file is. But what I did here is I have an analyzer that goes out and generates, oh, here, just do it again. Just run the analyzer again. Anyway, so this thing goes out and generates a 2D image of, uh, the entropy map of the file. So this gives you a visual idea of, you know, the structure of the data that you're looking at without really understanding what the actual specific structure is. So analyze, show the, uh, show the entropy map again. Okay, so this is, you know, this generates quickly. I want to show you some pre-generated images, um, that I did last night for the rest, entropy maps for the rest of the records. Can you show that? That's in the directory. Yeah, here. So, let's just show this one. So for example, this is an entropy map for the unpacked binary record that represents the executable code for the Cisco router, right?   So this looks like an elf record, right? You can see that visually. Uh, let's show them the IDA interactive integration. So, I mentioned the analyzer is going to integrate with, um, IDA Pro and we're going to show you that. Uh, do FS first. Alright, so Mike is going to run the IDA interactive analyzer on the executable record for Cisco iOS. Now all of your IDA Python stuff, all of the automations you built for IDA Pro interacts automatically with this, or integrates automatically with Fractu, okay? Um, so now we're going to have some fun. We're going to start modifying this from our image. For that, Mike is going to run the string finder analyzer. So this is something that's very simple. It just looks through a binary record and it tries to find a string and it tells you the beginning of the string, the length of the string, right? And the string we're looking for is, this product contains and you'll see why in a second. Okay, now once that's done, right, notice the meta information that's generated by this analyzer tells you the length of the string and the location of the string and the record that you're interested in. Now Mike is going to modify this record using a string replace with file modifier, which takes the offset that you want to replace, um, and the content which is in a file. And there's an overrun flag to see, to ask you whether you want to overrun the length of the string. And in this case, it's okay. It's just for demo. So, um, okay, you can do FS first. Okay, now once that's done, notice that there are two asterisks next to the record that we just modified, right? That means that that record has been modified. So Mike is now going to use the generic PK zip packer to pack the middle record and then once he's done with that, he's going to use the, our Cisco iOS packer to pack the entire image into a Cisco iOS image that we can then test on a router. And then as soon as that's done, we're going to fire up the original Cisco iOS image and then we're going to fire up the modified image in Dynamics and show you guys, you know, this iOS image running. Now, as soon as Mike runs the Cisco iOS packer, this is, this is where all the magic happens. This is where the packer calculates the appropriate checksums for the unpacked and uncompressed and compressed data records. And it fills in all the meta information that, you would need to get, to form a well-formed, legit Cisco iOS image that the bootloader and the router will use. Okay, now the unpacking is done. You see the meta information being exported. We're going to export this to disk. So why don't you show them what the records exported to disk look like. Do you not have that? Okay. Okay, we export it to this directory here. So Frack exports every step of its process into files so this is, you know, so that it's easy for you to work with intermediate output of Frack. And the thing we're interested in is this image here in the repack directory. That's the file that we just generated. So now Mike is going to fire up Dynamics, which is a Cisco iOS emulator. And in here we have two routers. One is the unmodified router, so I want to show you why we look for this product contained string. Okay, this guy's loading, loading, loading. Right, you see, as soon as the router boots up, this is the shell version string that says, you know, this product contains cryptographic functions not suitable for export, whatever it is. Okay, so let's check out our modified iOS image. It already booted up. Right, so we're going to do shell version. This comes up. Who knows who... Does anybody know who this handsome man is? Just shout it out. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? It's John. It's John Stewart. He's the CEO of Cisco Systems.  So that's it. That's our demo. One thing I want to mention is the state of support for frack now we have Packers and Repackers for Cisco iOS obviously. We also have Packers and Repackers for Cisco CNU, which is the firmware that you find on Cisco IP phones. Not the signed version, just the unsigned version. And also HPR View, so you can actually start analyzing data you find on laser printers and repacking them, making your own firmware images. And, you know, if you do this and use our tool, you'll find a lot of stuff that I guess I won't talk about now, but it makes you unhappy inside these firmware images. Right, that's John. Frack will be open source very soon, so we're working hard to get that out there. I want to do one more past internal code review before you guys see my dirty laundry. But please, sign up for our mailing list. We're going to let you guys know as soon as the code is up. The project page is frack.rebulancesecurity.com. And the last thing I want to say is thank you for DARPA Cyber FastTrack.  Our work is funded partially by Cyber FastTrack. And also X colleagues from the Intrusion Detection Systems at Columbia wrote this really cool book, book signings at 4 o'clock. So that's it. That's my talk. Thank you very much.


Welcome back on the channel of Karlssonet TV. And now we have an English speaking contribution. And for that, I welcome Pandemonium, who is a historian and documentary filmmaker. And therefore, we will also not have a normal talk, but we will see the documentary information. What are they looking at? We see a documentary, what do they see? A private documentary on English here in the cross zone. And after that we will talk about it. Anyway, please ask your questions and we can take it over. And now the film starts. Because the great promise of the internet is freedom. Freedom of expression, freedom of opinion. These are fundamental rights of our democratic values. Only because we have security, it doesn't mean that we have freedom. And only because we have freedom, it doesn't mean that we have peace. We should look for truth. We have to break the unlawful laws. We fight for something. That means, only to be safe. Ok, I didn't get it right now. There is freedom everywhere, but we are only free to see it for a short time. Before the internet began, the communication in the rule of one meditator to many readers. People have the opportunity to reach millions of people. That is a new way to communicate. Facebook and Twitter are the people who see that they are not alone with their opinion. And that has created a critical mass. That is an important role that social media has played. You can see Facebook Square, Tahir Square. And there are people out there who could feel that they are not alone in their desire for change. The great promise of the internet is freedom. We are afraid of it. We are afraid of it. We know it is free. Because it was promised that it is the great equalizer. Before the internet, everything you said was so anonymous. Because the concept is of anonymity. We could discuss things that were not the standard way, the standard values of society in which we were. The question of how to deal with the claim. I haven't been to Verbergen for many years. No, I haven't been there for a long time. Because this sentence is very short, but very perfidious. The speaker who gives me the sentence. I haven't been to Verbergen against Schleudert. He doesn't just say something about himself. He also says something about me. Lisa, I haven't been to Verbergen. Actually often, without the fact that the component is spoken out, you don't do it either, do you? In this sense, this sentence always finds a piece of solidarity. Because at the same time I don't agree with the other who may be to Verbergen. One of the things about privacy is that it's not always about you. It's about the people in our network. I know friends from Syria, people who I met in other places all over the world. Not afraid, but also people who have fear all the time in their home countries and also in the countries where they stay. And I can say that I haven't been to Verbergen. But if you have a person in your network, an activist member, people from countries where that's not the case, then it's about data sphere and security. That's why people are safe. When privacy is safe, because when everything is public, when normal is public, then everything we have to keep is a part of guilt. And that's not the world we want to have. It reduces our freedoms, reduces our democracy. No one should be subject to any interference with their private sphere, family, HMAT or correspondence. That's human rights sphere. Human rights is something that was realized in my opinion about the freedoms of people all over the world. It should be everywhere and completely. And that's what a person does. And they collect data and metadata over hundreds of thousands or millions of people. And a little bit of the data is never looked at. But at the same time you can only, because you're not an activist, then that doesn't mean that you can't be a target at some point. And that's something that's very, very bad. At the moment it's not a problem, but maybe your friends or your family or maybe you in the future. That means we have to think about it now. Not because we're going to dig out our houses in the middle of the night, but because these data, these metadata can be stored for a long time. My observation is that we currently are experiencing the privacy space, the space that remains in the digital world. The private, that should be private, slowly begins to erode. Or it becomes permittable. That might not only factual, but also in the experience that we have of those rooms. Imagine the digital world that is a panopticon. The Jerry M. Benson building, the circular building where in the ring, in the cells there are the prisoners. At the center there is a surveillance tower. And the guard can see the prisoners around him. And the trick is that the prisoners do not know whether they are under surveillance currently. They only see the tower, but they do not see the surveyor or the guard. But they do know that at any point of time, permanently, they can be surveilled. That is, that changes how they behave. I think surveillance is a technology of government. It is a political technology. It is about controlling and how you control the population. It is a lack of power. It is about people who are connected to the state. It is a population management and control mechanism. That means that people have to be convinced that it is in their interest. And not the day of the day. It is just everyone for themselves and everyone just tries to reach everyone. I take my cue from my previous NSC council. He asked this question. Metadata tells you everything about someone, the life of a person. You do not need any content. It is so shameful that it is so. Let's say you make a call. For example, you are wearing a hotline. A few hours later, maybe you call a friend.  Now the content of this call or this e-mail was not collected. But what is recorded, what you did, when you called, different metadata can be linked together to create a professional. You can kill metadata based on metadata. But that is not what we do with these metadata. Thankfully. Wow, I have sweat there for a second. For conducting this kind of surveillance. To go after, yes, at least. And obviously, that you are looking for terrorists. That many people have understanding of it. But there are some problems. The first is, they have not proven that surveillance actually works to prevent terrorists. It did not work in Paris. It did not work in Boston. It did not work anywhere. So that is the one part. But the other part is, we waste billions of dollars for surveillance, but not for the reasons of terrorism. These values do not stand against each other. And the purchase of these propaganda no longer exists. I think power is hidden around surveillance. I think power is hidden around surveillance. That is our interest to keep us safe. And there were cases in the populations that fought against this surveillance. And I think that is a kind of mystery around this technology. There is this intuition, there is this technology. And it is there to do that and it works. But the power relationship is hidden. For whom is it there? That is the problem. It is not the overwhelming majority of the English majority. It is against white people. It is not the white people. It is about Muslim populations. For example, at the airport, the other passengers say, oh, this Union speaks Arabic. And that is why this person is a subject. The goal of this surveillance. This type of surveillance of each of us. On the other hand, because of this culture, this culture of fear, which has been strengthened in a way. And it is growing around us. This fear is that I think it goes from being concrete to being brave. It is another way to have a connection of control. It is about identity. It is very, it is very easy to define. There is a lot of fear when you use the fears of people who are justified.  And I think it is very dangerous to give more and more to this. Also, because I think that with this, the negative instincts of people are strengthened. The exclusion of racial profiling. It is inherently disenfranchising. It makes you feel differently than others. That is why surveillance and things that are possible by technology are extremely harmful. And they cause you to feel differently as a subject. Because you are a target of the region. This program has been kept secret for years. If they are necessarily so meaningful and effective. Why has no one been justice for this? Why is everything in the secret of secret courts? Why does the Commission of Secret Service, which has imposed its own Obama, not a single zero of the cases of terror or terrorist attacks through these huge telecommunications and metadata were only explained in action? In trying to stop something from happening. If you try to stop something before it happens, you can enter a measure. And that will probably happen. But you do not know if this measure has prevented it. Because it has not happened. You cannot check it. You cannot measure it. And you cannot say with 100% certainty that it did not happen. But after 9-11, after the catastrophic attack, politicians were in this impossible position. The people were scared. They did not have to do anything. One of them is that every objective has to be checked. And a kind of panoptics of surveillance. No, no, we can see everything. Do not be afraid. We have all the information. We just have to find the needle in the haystack. But then, obviously, we have to talk about it. We can see it clearly. When we go to your door, you saw something, called this hotline. And they have listed things. The neighbor who goes to a vacation very often. Or the other neighbor who always has the curtains. It changes how you look at society. And it changes the assumption of innocent to danger. It does not start with a problem. If he wears a spring belt and already holds the belt in his hand. Or if he has already bought parts for a spring belt. Or if he has only been informed on the Internet how to build a spring belt. When can the state intervene properly? For me, it is very central. The very problematic question is whether someone who has been put into a potential danger or a potential terrorist suspect without being a terrorist. Yes, yes. Whether someone like that is allowed to wake up right away or even be arrested. That means, whether certain people because they could create a specific danger for the community fundamental human rights should be discussed. First of all, let's face an unequal threat that will last. Two days after the attacks in Brussels on December 22nd, 2016 John Claude Juncker and the French Prime Minister had a joint press conference. We are living in our art. But we also think that the Union of Security and all the elements... In this, Juncker called on the Minister to take a proposal of the Commission to protect the outer borders of Europe. For over 15 years now, we have observed a big... Over 15 years, we have noticed that there is a lot of pressure to form more surveillance measures against the attacks of the last years. That was not possible. We have a new proposal that is only based on ideology. The Supreme Court passed the law. The Green House President, Jan-Philippe Albrecht, wrote a statement on netpolitik.org which defines the guidelines as terrorism could be used by the government to criminalize political actions or political protests. These rules, these laws they are very discriminating. When you talk about a politician on the level of a local politician this problem is known to us for a long time. We always deny everything that is unpleasant to us and that is unsightly to us to set the horizon. That is strange to us. We don't do that. And if one of us does it, he has to be crazy. This is Edward Sayed's point of view that Western self-definition has to be defined against the other Eastern self-definition. Everything that is Western is not the East and vice versa. And that is... Western self-definition and its... and that is the dichotomy that continues. For the first time in the context of the French Revolution the Jacobins who were under Robespierre who had established the rule of law or terror were the first terrorists, that's what they were called. The first terrorism was the terrorism of the state and of course the systematic surveillance of counter-revolutionaries. The proposal, the directive says that it has to do with human rights. But it's not because of these surveillance measures to feel secure. But we have seen that these repressive measures do not mean higher security. And to sell that to people you have to have a fear around the insecure world. Everything could happen at any time and if something can happen at any time, what can we do? You have the feeling that this text wants to make sure that police authorities are able to use any kind of communication to prevent anything from happening. You have to know what happened and also the future. You can get as much information as you can at any time. It's about no risk. Democracy has a kind of concept that is called surveillance measures against each other which means to respect the rule of law. This is part of the private sphere. In Germany it's very high-ranked. But it's also very low-ranked. When we are afraid to speak about the government or about a partner or a boss or a boss, all possible surveillance is caused by a sensor. When everything is monitored, you think twice before you speak. When all the likes are collected about you, that changes your behavior. Of course you think about if you like something or don't, then social consequences are possible for you. When we look at the history of the rights to violence, all these rights were illegal by law or by culture. And when we have these mass surveillance, we would have these movements if all the laws were absolute and we would never have changed if we had the same rights. Women had to break the rights to break the rights to break the rights to break the rules to break the rights to break the rules. And that's the same here. All our laws historically have the most harsh consequences on the most disadvantageous ones. From the very beginning it was my fault that I came here last year. Especially the former boss of Google, Eric Smith, who is familiar with the fact that he actually said that. If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, you might not want to say it. But if you really need that kind of part, when you need this private part the truth is that search engines like Google can back up information some time later. Big corporations that companies that have this business model have interest in you raw material. Your information is raw material and you work on it to create a profile about you. If I know enough about you, if I have so much information about you that I can create a very life-changing picture of you, a simulation, that is very valuable. The economy of the Internet to say human behavior, to say, to control the eyes. This system is set up to sell our data, our demography for advertising, to sell something. These companies know more about us than we do about ourselves. Now we feel the beast. There is very little overview. It has to reach a person just like others. If you buy a soda and buy it in the afternoon and you immediately get a ad about pizza and where the soda comes from. And that's what advertising is about. I always laugh when I'm on the side. When I want to buy something, when I see the sweater on the same side. It's very strange that the biggest people, the biggest thoughts, they only think about how this surveillance business starts here and ends not only here. For some people, it doesn't seem so disturbing. And we don't know who the whole data exchange is. A whole company, a whole environment that has thousands of data points to collect and create a profile to create. And then you don't know what happened with this data at all. That means it's hard to say which implications exist before it's too late. Stasi in comparison to Google or Facebook are beginners. Stasi had to use people to monitor people and to play in the night. That's expensive. It cost a lot of money. They had to choose people. It was very expensive for them to pay all these people to play in the night. But on Facebook and Google they don't have to do that anymore. They are algorithms. That's the mass surveillance. And we can monitor so many people. That's conspiracy theory. We have a business model. When we talk about rhythm, we usually talk about a logic. For example, if we want to buy a book at Emerson, you always see a few other examples. These mistakes have been prepared for you, depending on what things you bought in the past. They learn that they make mistakes. It's okay if you sell dog food. It's about going to the police station to do activities. If you build up a matrix, you will have criminal actions. That's not okay anymore. We have to make the whole discussion about how we have to realize this whole thing before it's carried out. One consequence of this is that many street groups or people who have little manners can't talk about it anymore.  And the other thing is that you never hear a voice. Our data is not waste. Our data is not oil. Data is human. Maybe you don't do anything wrong today, but maybe in three governments, if you implement a certain law, what you might do today is then illegal. And people who can collect these data can look back, look back 10 or 20 years and then people will follow. And everything we buy and everything we even do, even the people we meet and the people we meet and are chosen by these algorithms, is the amount of power that we accept, something from these firms. It's more than we accept it from the start. And that is where the representative democracy has a obligation, to press the government against these private firms, to at least publicize them to a certain point, how much data they can extract. It makes it clear that the technology is still much more slipped into our lives than it is without a hitch. So, really technically in our body, in our clothes, in the devices in which we sit, in which we carry all possible areas of our life, our working life, then that is definitely the wrong way, because it ultimately leads to natural disasters. If you think about it for a few minutes, you would think that the actual dichotomy from control to freedom is there and a fairly controlled society can be free. Hello. Welcome back from the movie. Welcome back from the movie. Well, welcome to our producer. And it was very, yeah, showing very good what information. It shows very good what information can do and what we can do with information. And I think that the Germans still have a little bit of time to ask questions. And in the meantime, I could ask you why. If you want to ask questions in German, you can simply put them on the usual channel at C3T. Yeah, films were not shown at first. What would you do differently? What might have changed in the past since the film was produced? What I would change, I would try to secure money to make a better movie. To have more time, to work it faster. It took a very long time. And this film, as it was just made, was financed by some very great people who supported me on Patreon and who supported me with their private money. And almost no budget. And that would change. This documentation in Germany is very difficult to get money in Germany without a television or if you don't have a name. But I still wanted to make this film. And I'm still very happy with this direction, with the general direction. But it was mainly recorded in 2015-2016 and some new developments, especially biometric surveillance and police, and especially in the USA, body cameras. I would still talk about colonialism and racism in this discussion about surveillance and privacy. And there are seven extreme groups in Germany that we see in discussions about hate messages on the internet, in the Metaversum, how to call it. All these things are already in the film, but I would focus more on it if I had known more about it six years ago and how I would do it now. But I would generally do the same. Fascinating that you did it with nearly no budget. It's fascinating that you did it almost without money. And it was also an interesting point. And it was an interesting point where we have now finished. Basically I understood this idea that these bodycams should protect the people against the police, not vice versa, as it appears a few times. Exactly the problem with bodycams or with other surveillance methods is that you think that the video shows the reality. You always think of the angle, of the way of view. And people always have prejudices about who might be the right and who might be the right and who might be the right. And these pictures or videos have, even if they were objective, the objective reality. It's exactly the same as with a film or with other photo recordings that we make. For this film I have put together quite a lot of interviews. They took a very long time, a lot of hours. And I could put it together in many different ways. The same film that would have argued in the other direction with the same material. And that shows very strongly how important it is that at the end of the day we as judges, as police, as normal people, that we overcome these prejudices, these surveillance that is possible at a technical level. Because it's always connected with the way we view the world. I actually remember an old talk we had several years ago. I remember an old talk a few years ago. It was about a freedom of speech demonstration. And there was also a case where someone with a blue T-shirt was beaten by the police. And it was very difficult to gather these various videos to explain the story. What happened? Maybe you should be able to find it. Where it was constructed in some way. I will definitely search for it. I can't remember which year, but you should be able to find it. And now we have some actual questions from the audience. Can I find the movie anywhere? Can I find the movie somewhere to show it to someone? Yes, it's on YouTube. You can find it if you enter the title and enter my name Teresia Reinhold. That's very good. Is the 21st century short attention span for non-technological friends, non-technical friends of the front? I don't really get the question. I guess... I don't really get the question. But it's about... If there is a way, if there is a way to explain that there are non-technical people. What's the problem if you say you have nothing to complain about? Yes, if there is anything in your life... If you are happy that nobody can see it. A embarrassing YouTube video, or if you don't... Or if it's about singing in the shower. Then that is your right. That you don't... Nobody has to judge you about it. It's the same as with mass surveillance. Or surfing on the Internet. Or walking on the street. We have a basic... A basic security zone. And that's human rights. Or if it's in the technical or analogue world. If you're in the shopping mall. Or if you don't want to know that other people know what you're buying. And you should have the right that it's private. That it's not known to others. If you surf on the Internet. Then everything is analysed. Everything is monitored in real time. And our movements on the Internet are sold to the biggest bidders. And there is a big... A big industry behind it. And that's immoral. And people should always have the opportunity to share what they really want to share. They want to have it public. And if they... If there aren't a lot of technologists from the East, then just talk about the stars. Yes, thank you for the... I don't know what it's about in the film. Since it can be stored now. That it can be stored now. It can look at a story in the future and attack it. And... No... The question has been improved. And it doesn't matter if I asked. The question is... Could there be a teaser? Could there be a teaser that you could send to your friends? Okay, yes. And that's also on YouTube. And also on Vimeo. I'm sorry. I didn't get it from the question. Very good. So, Zen, I guess we are through with the questions. And I thank you. Zen, this... Talk is over. If there is feedback, use the hashtag C3Lingo on the whole platform. Or... Go to the world, look at other streams or have something to eat. See you later.


Mr. Breakfast and plus CV Africa, many thanks for being part of the show and I hope you're having a great holiday. Time for us to take you through the pages of Anashu Delis, we'll call it Off the Press and Openabon Qatari joins the conversation. Openabons, good to have you join us this morning. Good morning, nice to see you, Justin and Nigeria. Good morning. Okay, I can't see you people. I can't see you people. No, we're actually working on that and we're hoping that we resolve all of that in no time, but you seem to be in a whole day mode and we appreciate that. We set off with the leadership newspaper this morning. On the front page of the leadership, you have 2023 presidency, Asarok stays aloof as aspirants battle for APC ticket. So it just probably might just make nonsense of the permutations and all of the speculations making the rounds that maybe the vice president might be the anointed candidate of president Muhammad Buhari, but that's fine. And underneath intensifies consultation, lobbying for presidential endorsement as a rider. I may see visits, I am not stepping down for anyone, says Umai, show Nigerians your legacy, coca-tales aspirant. Now these are the head, the riders underneath the boat caption, talking about the 2023 presidency. Easter, vice president Jemosibarjo, Bajabi Amila, others pray for peace. Zulam raises salary of doctors in liberated local government areas and presidency tackles weekend as more criticism trails pattern for Joshua Dariye and Jolly Nyame. Bandits kill policemen, three others abducts cause in Niger, 11,536 schools closed of our insecurity in Nigeria, UNICEF is quoted, troops killed 10 commanders, 90 terrorists in Lake Chad. These are the headlines on the leadership this morning. All right, moving away from the leadership newspaper, our next spot of call is the punch newspaper. The main story this morning, a presidency is in the news and it is saying the PDP opts for indirect, okay, the presidency of 2023 rather PDP opts for indirect primaries may prune 17 aspirants, I would sum. Riders there, consensus not about imposing candidate but reducing number of aspirants, key spokesman is quoted on that one. Neck will soon meet on many of May 29 primaries, other issues as PDP spokesperson take convention to the moon, candidate that will, when presidency will emerge, are the stories are making a front page of the punch newspaper. You voted, silent on Dariye, Nigerian tackle. All right, Osina cheese husband took her cars, left her stranded, that's the mother of the deceased. More defections looming APCS PDP was Yari, Marafa, more stories, Nigeria imports 109 billion Naira anti-malarial drugs in six months, local pharmaceuticals struggle. Let's see, we can take more presidency mom as Kuka Nox Buhari over into purity, corruption. Ista or Shiba Jogh Bajabia Mila clerics others preach hope. 15% imported vehicle levy illegal against finance act ex NAC panel member. Increasing fuel subsidy puts a Nigerian economy at high risk. The World Bank is saying 25% of 2022 capital expenditure may not be funded. That's according to economists that those are the major stories you can find on the front page of the punch newspaper away from the punch. We take a look at the Nigerian Tribune and it says Kuka to Buhari Nigerians no longer recognize their country and that's boldly written on the board. I mean on the front page of the Nigerian Tribune. You have several riders underneath the boat caption. Nothing be sure backs nothing elders and call for Buhari's resignation but it's okay to make all of those calls. That's entirely on the National Assembly and do you think that you know the National Assembly will go ahead with this if they should? Why haven't they done that? Nigeria's peace prosperity will be restored soon. The Vice President is reassuring Nigerians Yamio Sibajo and you have Bajabi Amila governor's orders call for prayers at Easter. Interesting. Why Yahya Bello's presidency will benefit the masses? This might just be very political campaigned. Examphara governor Yari Mafara dump APC for the PDP. NDLEA intercepts cocaine hidden in footwear and toothpaste at airports. It's getting very interesting and Falana takes over prosecution of Ade Doi others over the alleged mother of the OAU student. Sgt food price or food and gas prices push Nigeria's inflation rate to 15.92 percent. We're talking about double digits for seven consecutive years and it calls for a lot of concern for us as a people. And you also find the MNJTF eliminates 100 terrorists in Lake Chard. These are the headlines on the Nigerian Tribune. And finally we will review the nation news paper. What the banner caption for this morning security architecture on the reformation says presidency equities read 10 rises to 2.53 trillion Naira fund managers invest 8 trillion Naira pension cash 2023 bill ready for open contest says campaign DG if a student murder or show case Falano as prosecutor at Easter of war Pope seeks peace. Governors let's remain united. Teenable let us build Nigeria as never before. There's a pictorial there the Pope are giving a blessing to the child on Easter Sunday. Most stories are Yari Marafa head for PDP for Held in Kaduna for it kidnapped bid. All right.  Benway PDP deputy governor to battle speaker at one of the six acquire on a PC ticket. Abbey joins reverse race. The master DG begins consultation in Kaduna. Those are the stories you can find on the nation news paper at the front page that is. All right. Let's have open up on Katari joined the conversation this morning. It was good to have you join us. Thank you. Just saying once more. Thank you yet again. We set off with the Nigerian Tribune and it talks about the fact that cooker has said to the president that Nigerians no longer recognize their country. It talks about the security issues that were faced with as a people and several. So you have the fact that northern bishops back that northern elders on the call for the resignation of the president. I mean how many more days to the president leaving the office. The call is becoming very loud and very loud. But what are your thoughts? Well that the country is in their strength. I mean that the tenure leaders have never been distressed in the history of this country. Not even during the civil war. It's not in doubt. It comes in that's one fact that you cannot compare. Nevertheless I think the call for the resignation of the president is just to underscore the fact that Nigeria is heading slowly for setting the perennial and that the president has failed to ensure coercion, peace, unity, and most importantly to protect lives and property which is quoted to do from the May 22nd to May 22nd and May 29, 2019. So that is just to underscore that fact, that facade that fact that the president has failed. I don't think that it sincerely believes that the duary will know will ever contemplate resigning. Yes, no doubt it is in order to get out of office. No doubt because the issues of our women have never expected to be confronted with these issues. So it's in order to get out of office. No doubt. But that he's going to resign. Everybody knows that the duary wants to resign. They can bounce around him especially now that the political leaders rise up and most of them depend on him to succeed. They will not even let him resign. So the issue of resignation is completely out of the way. But it's basically to emphasize the fact that we are still at this moment. I don't think that the future will be that the president is going to resign. So I mean, just quickly, the issue of resignation that you have mentioned is out of the space for the president. He cannot. But what about the other option? That would impact it on the speaking with him. It's a pretty delusion to think of that. So how about the issue of impeaching the president? The president has always been in peace, not always once or twice. Sorry, let me just use this opportunity to answer this. I finally make a mistake while we're talking about impeachment. Impeachment is not a mover. Impeachment is not an indictment process that leads to removal. But most times we say impeachment is a mover. No, impeachment is an official indictment. So I believe what you're talking about is removal. It's impeached by the National Assembly and then removed. On a few occasions here, but the National Assembly of today and the Robert Stam's Assembly will not have the government to muster the required constitutional number to remove the president from office. That again would be another damn emotion. The National Assembly, especially now that you have the ATC in majority in the National Assembly, and the decision is that president has a father that even when he goes to work, he can just be talked to or appealed to to have a change in attitude or action and not to be even politically escalated. If you look at this National Assembly, that is the kind of National Assembly where it is not like the Santa Cruz National Assembly. It is not like the Alcaldibus National Assembly and the National Assembly in the past. This is just one of the National Assembly. And it will not have that mayor, that gunsome, that bed to remove the president from. It will not even commence the process of the impeachment. It will not even commence it. So that again, it's taking me too far. It is addressing the National Assembly world rules. It will not. Not that it doesn't have the constitutional power, but it doesn't have the gunsome to solve it. All right, let's stay with the Nigerian Tribune. All the stories are making headlines. Just to both of them, the must-have. Messi and I, we were chatting about it now, doing top trending. It's like there is no end in sight with the war without the captioning that is the Tribune. War without end between Tinnabu or Shibajo supporters. And they are talks of the vice president being a Judas. What are your thoughts this morning, Opunabu? Well, look at this program on the sister station. Wendy, I tried to analyze when they referred to the vice president, Judas and Peter. And I just laughed. At the time, Opunabu, a lot of what happened there, right now is impression that Tinnabu was instrumental to the idea from the vice president of Simanda's vice president. That is quite wrong.  He was more or less poised there. The courage you go to Akande and Heraf and let them say, oh, that is one major fact. Now, having said that, the vice president, it is his constitutional right to also fight. Is it because he was Tinnabu's commissioner? I told you, they have pressure for justice. So, therefore, he should be stripped of every order, right? Not to contest. That is unfair. It is the wish of a father to allow the strong, the wish of everybody to allow the strong to be greater than it. So why would Tinnabu be that strong? Why would they go center? Which is why you said it's the Judas. Thank God we are not talking of resurrection of Christ. Best for the betrayal of Judas, the one time in salvation. We would have been celebrating the resurrection of Christ. Are people talking about that? That's another way. Christ has to be betrayed for us to be saved. So if Tinnabu has to be betrayed, because it's part of Nigeria's problem. So if he has to be betrayed for Nigeria to be saved, why would we want to condemn him in the back? We criticize Peter for denying Jesus. Yes, but don't forget, that same Peter we criticize as you are is the foundation of the church. Yes, it is the Christ Peter for denying Jesus. If these things are not taking place, in every way Christ himself said, Lord, it is possible for this to pass away. It is what I shall drink of it. Christ, at a point, was no longer willing. Let us not be fanatic about these things. God, I don't believe the clergymen deceived our great-grandfathers because they could not be. This is a fact that I could put to leave. Stop telling me about spiritual interpretation. No, sir. The truth about it is that Christ, at a point, was not willing. Even though the Cosmos father, we have done forsaken me. Guys came in two forms. Human form and spirit. And he had no choice. Because he wanted to come to pass. Well because he thought death didn't happen. He had to drink. He had no choice. And even if these things are not taken place, would not be talking about salvation in Christ himself. Would not be talking about salvation. These things have to do with it.  I was going to say that I am not going to give you any information. These things we are meant to have, you never even do that, return the money, and hang themselves. They committed suicide. These things we are meant to have. If they are not they are destined and able to have. So they don't have control over me. So they are meant to have control. So in that sense, I will say that I don't have control over what I am doing. Let's delve into some of the things that you have mentioned. As much as we are going to move away quickly from all of that. But you also need to understand it. It was not categorically stated that Judas himself would be the one that would betray Jesus. And so there was no name. Yes, yes. Judas was not the one to betray Jesus. There was no specific God. But we put him to the science of all things God. So he knew who was to betray him. And don't forget, he turned and looked at Judas. If you remember, he turned and looked at Judas. Oh yeah. So he knew. So he knew. So let us know if I have to call about all of this. When they call, like, like, like, like.  Alright, let's hear this move on now. Open up on Kotaria. You can do it with your parents. That is another form of pay tax. Alright, let's move on. We need to move away from this, right? You also have the issue of the presidency on the leadership newspaper. 2023 presidency. Acer Rock stays aloof as aspirant battle for the APC ticket. It means that, you know, the president or the presidency, no one is actually concerned. And you need to see the calibre of persons that have declared their intentions or have indicated interest to be coming. The president, of course, he has to be on the, you know, seeking the presidential ticket at the time at the party level. And so the presidency is not really involved in all of that. So how do you see all of this pan out with all of the persons that have showed interest?  Not only one would have just acquiesced in this guesstimation by calling it the conjecture from nobody's show, but from the president's interview, if you remember, he said it was asked by channels. And he said he has the person disclosed his act. If he discloses the act, then it's going to be the case. So that doesn't give the need for any further proof that the president is interested. Definitely the president will be interested in who succeeded. Definitely. I mean, if you full-handedly don't think that the president will not be interested in who succeeded, definitely he's going to be interested in who succeeded. And that's why every body wants the president or not. On the platform of advocacy, they want the president or not. Because whether we like it or not, where we have some level of order, say the president, I know. I said the president, I know. The body language of Mr. President, you very much understand, also affects the voting process. I'd like to do these official, those those that are loyal. So there is no way the president will isolate himself, will remain aloof. It is not possible. They will want somebody that will succeed whether for positive or negative business. Positive business, I said, oh, I believe I have done well. I want somebody that will continue to progress, or a negative business, somebody that will come and help all my ineptitude, my mafisa. So whether for positive or negative business, Mr. President will be interested in his success. So nobody to come and tell Mr. President that Mr. President is aloof. That is the clear case of Mendocino point. It cannot be aloof. He has also alluded to that fact. When he said the president is not his son, well, he would know he was not going to disclose that entity because that would be traumatizing the life of that person. So how are you going to... Open up, Alcatario. Who do you think that the president might be interested in? I mean, I'm just trying to put you on that spot. Sorry, sorry. So who do you think the president might be interested in if you say that? That the president cannot not be interested in who succeeds him. And so the question now would be, who do you think the president is interested in and succeeded him? I believe the president is interested in the man whose identity he has refused to disclose in order not to traumatize the life. So... Well, the way out of that... That can be political this morning. All right. Let us move on. Interesting stories on the front page of the punch. Let's see which one we can take. Interesting. So PDP helps for indirect primaries. May prune, 17 aspirants. Also interesting is the fact that the reactions are trailing the pattern that was given to Daria and all the Nigerians. The punch caption said this way. You forwarded Alamecia's pattern, silent on Daria, Nigerians. Tackle. Keiyamu, how do you react to that particular one? Open up. Which part of that... There are three questions now. Let us start with the pattern that happened not too long ago, given to Daria. Okay, the pattern. Yes. Well, you know, we are approaching the crunch time. Politics. It's all about politics, you know. And APC is going to pardon Daria. APC is going to pardon Daria. APC is going to pardon Daria. APC is going to pardon Daria. So there is this possibility that this person is going to be loyal to the party. That is my own thinking.  Because I cannot decipher the rationale behind that pattern. They won herself four years, they won herself six years ago to start giving the sentence. The sentence to me, it was too mild for the offense committed. A man stills one goat. The sentence to five years in prison.  The sentence to two and a half years. Another one year you've gone under. What method are you sending to other? You know, the general need right now is, okay, I'm going to steal 100 billion. When I steal 100 billion, I am going to save 20 billion for judiciary. I'm going to save 10 billion lawyers, SAM, then another 2 to 3 billion for this. Then I still have at least 60 billion. That's okay. If I wait for four years and come out and I have 60 billion, that's how people think these days. That's the truth. That is the truth.  You go. I tell it myself, as a parent, they will come out, they see all the story, definitely the proof of Christ, after a while, they release. Four years. But the man who stole those goods and cows have been languishing there. I wasn't trying for 16 years. I wasn't trying. Then the case will go on for another four, five years. Then it will be jailed for 10 years. Because it's a format. Is it the rule? I tell you that we live in a country where the ten percent of justice grows safely. The rule of law is clear. There's no justice. Run with some money. Run with some money. Why would such cases come out? Why? After how many years? You stole how many billion? Then you spent three, four years in prison. And no, I did such a thing that I can bet you. They are not like other business. No, they are not. They receive phone calls. They receive visitors in the night. They might even take them to their house to sleep. We prescribe all that. Or put them in a place, air-conditioned. They might even sleep in the control office. Or get out. And the money they pay them out to show the world that they are free to sleep. That is all going on in this country. But how do you expect us to have a change? But what do you really... I don't know if you are condemning it. Open up on Qatariya. Would you really blame that president? Because if you look at it as a constitutional concern. Section 175 of the constitution talks about the prerogative or pattern of presidential pattern. If I would blame the president. If I would blame it on the president. Isn't it messy? No, but I'm saying how do you... I mean, it's not... He has the right. I mean, he has the... He's been giving the right to choose. And it's within his jurisdiction to choose... You have just answered. You have the question. And you answered. No, no, I'm saying... No, I'm saying that should you blame... Should you blame the president? The question open up on Qatariya. You have the question. Let me ask. Now, if we should blame the president. People said it's a council of things. Not the president. The president. They say, oh, you can't blame the president. But we all know the body language. Number two. It is a right. That you should exercise with a lot of wisdom. Your discussion of a judge to advocate on an issue and deal with it as prescribed by the law when you have between five and seven years in prison. Now, it's in the right of the judge to choose between the five years and seven years. Now, the governing of the facts will determine whether it's going to be five years or it's going to take the maximum of seven years. But that right must exercise intelligently. That's the point you have made. Well, how do you define intelligence? Open up on... No, nobody's saying you have to do that. But we are saying you have to have sentimental ground. Because you cannot define... You cannot define... That's the point you have made. Open up on Qatariya. Yes, yes, yes. So, I mean, as much as you're saying that the point is you can't even define if the constitution give the president the powers. How do you not define what is morally right and at the point where the president should act rational? Because it's within his discretion. And so for the president down, I mean, freeing or having to grant pardon to these governors, that of terrorist act. I mean, the president is acting within his own discretion. Now, let me have some now. Come on, let's see. Go ahead. Thank you. Ma, when you talk of right, presidential power is the prison of Mr. President. Nobody is disputing that power. But how it is being exercised is what is emission. I give you an example now. If you say for example, you have civilized clients, you have people of power. Prisoners who are released on parole, certain indices are taking into consideration the gravity of the offense, the attitude of the prisoner, how he conducted himself while in jail, and so many other indices. That is what is taking into consideration. In this particular case, we are talking about work. We are not talking about murder. When you say that a man has endured the same and penetrated the authority, he has now been lost. We are talking of work.  No problem. It is your right. But when you grant him this paddle, I don't forget. What is granted paddle? He is completely charged of all his sins and has the same right as you do. Now you grant him paddle. He comes out, goes back. What is that? Generally, I will tell. Tomorrow, what will the next sitting governor do? He will stay. He will now stay one trillion. We now know in this country how this paddle is being granted. He is the sister. What he actually wanted to see was five hundred billion. Why is he making it one trillion? He knows he is going to spend five hundred billion to ensure after two, three years he gets that paddle. We are the deterrent there. Why not allow the staff to attend? Why not? What is so special about the paddle? The fact that you can grant the president five hundred dollars, there was nothing more present. Who they said is God's? That's what God's message is for. We all know that. What is the rush in granting this paddle? What? What do you stand to benefit? What are the advantages of granting this paddle? Some have just one or two more years to go. Why not allow them to spend all their time in prison as a visitor by the God's? What is the rush? Why grant them paddle? That's why it's a discretion. All right. Nobody said what he did. Nobody said what he did is ultra-violent. The decision is right. The decision is right to so do. But we are looking at the most devilness in that aspect. It's because it has a discretion. When you are given a discretion, I understand the point you are putting out. But when you are given a discretion, a discretion that does not have you don't have clauses around it. There are no do's and don'ts and what you are expected not to do. It's a discretion. And so it's totally under constitution. You can't blame him. That's his discretion. Because it is believed that the man that would exercise the discretion will be do so intelligently. That's why. But that might just be his intelligence. Open up on Qatariah. That might just be the president's intelligence. And that's why a discretion is a discretion. And you can't explain it. All right. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you so much. What's a very big thank you for all of your thoughts. But before we go, we still have some time, right? Let's just take care of one more. It's always in the heart to send me away. We are dwelling so much on that issue to discuss. Let's take all the stories now. The president, like I said before, let's talk on this PDP opt-in for indirect primaries. May prune 17 aspirant. Is that a good development right now in direct primaries for the PDP presidential polls? Well, it is the party's discussion. The electoral act impiles your three moves into the party. The best thing any party will do right now is to adopt the modus operandi that will show victory at the general election. So, probably they will sit down to get an agree. We all know the direct primaries that we all know the benefit of direct primaries. We all know the benefit of direct primaries. But the same direct primaries, that means one or two persons won't doubt about that. We'll definitely want to influence those with the financial watchers who want to influence. And if you have that financial watchers with the numerical strength in terms of delegates now, we're not talking of the masses in terms of delegates now, well, fine. That's what we're going on. And so we want to sell their conscience in the daytime there will be at night they are doing something else. But for somebody else. Lots of interest. So that none can be caught because of all the accused of being the judas. If the resurrected they find the political power to be the judas. None can be accused of being the judas. So when it is indirect, how do you know? When it is direct, you will know. If it's consensus, well, consensus, as the name implies we all agree to produce a candidate. We all know the programs associated with consensus candidates. So a lot of them will offer indirect which is the safest landing point especially if you want to win. It's the safest landing point. So a lot of them will offer indirect. But if the parties excluded with that if they so decide it's not going to be decided I want one. Not even the national chairman can so decide. The net will decide, the party will decide and then they all are going to be fine. Then they'll bring up their best if producing a candidate that they believe will not be getting the party the softest in the digital election. All right. Many thanks for being part of the show this morning. We appreciate your time always. Thank you. Do have yourself a wonderful holiday. It's a public affairs analyst and always on Mondays it's a delight to have him join the conversation. But we take a break down and let's let you know what happened today in history. When we return we'll be looking at a first major conversation right here on the show. Please stay with us.


Yeah, as you heard, my name is Victoria. I'm a PhD student in neurobiology here in Munich. And even though my topic is not cognitive neuroscience, but actually Alzheimer's disease on mice, I want to talk today about cognitive biases. Because from my personal experience, I know this topic is something not just interesting, but also very useful in everyday life. That's why I want to give you a hint what cognitive biases are. And hopefully by the end of the talk, you are inspired to learn more about them. I also see if you experience these cognitive biases in your own life. Wikipedia tells us, so cognitive bias is a pattern of irrational behavior in the situations when we need to make a judgment or we need to make a decision. I think this is very descriptive, but not very easy to grasp what it is. So I wanted to give you first an example that you can easily see what the cognitive bias is. Let's imagine the experiment. So you are a volunteer in the experiment. And you are presented with two pictures, either to female or to male pictures. And then you have to choose which one you find more attractive. So you choose one, and then you are given this picture and you have to describe why you think this is more attractive. So why did you make this decision? It's quite an easy task, right? So I think everyone can do that. But imagine what will happen if you actually given the wrong card. So you say, I want to have this card, but then you get the other one. Who of you think that you will immediately realize this is the wrong card? Raise your hand. Okay, some people think it's easier, right? That's like, it's obvious you see it's the wrong card. Okay, let's check what happens in reality. 80% of the people we tested had absolutely no idea that a switch had been made. Again, this one just struck me. Interesting shot. Since I'm a photographer, I like the way it's lit and looks. So you see apparently 80% of people don't realize that they were given a wrong card and they experienced two cognitive biases by this. First, they have a false memory. So they think they actually did select this card that they were given, which never happened. And then they post-rationalized and they come up with the explanation. Why did they do this decision? Even though apparently there were no really rational reasons because if they were rational reasons to choose the other card, they probably would realize that they were given the wrong card. So these are two examples of cognitive biases. We do something very rational but we don't realize that. And if you now feel that cognitive bias is probably something which happens with people in the lab because you're stressed by the scientists, they're giving you some weird tasks, this is not the case. Actually this happens in many different environments. And one of the cognitive biases which is called Curse of Knowledge is something which we see a lot when we prepare the talks for 15 by four. Our speakers are experts or at least very big fans of the topic they want to talk about. So they know a lot. And when they try to explain their knowledge, they start with a very high level. And for them it's really hard to see that the audience will have a very different background. So this Curse of Knowledge really prevents them from making good talks. This is why we do three rehearsals for each of the talk to help the speakers get rid of these cognitive bias and be better. And I think you all had some kind of experience with the Curse of Knowledge even if you did not need to give a talk, you probably tried at some point to teach someone something new and realized that the person just doesn't get it even though you explained it in simple words. And the problem was probably that the person did not have the same background as you had in this. And then you had to go back and explain all the background and only then it became efficient. So this is another example of the cognitive bias. Why do the cognitive bias happen at all? Why do they appear in our life? It's because our brain is not a super precise computer and it's not also very fast in calculations. While our life often requires us to act very fast, we need to make decisions fast and we don't have enough time to make rational decisions. At the same time, there is information overload. So we always bombard it with a lot of different information. We already don't have time to think about it. And then we also have to select which information is important and which is less important. And then what is worse? We often still lack details. So we have a lot of information but for many cases, we don't have a full picture of the situation. So we need to make a decision but we don't know all the details. What do we do? So our brains try to find a way around. So it tries to find a proxy by which it can make a decision fast with lacking information and also in situation where there's too much information that has to be filtered. Let's look at one of the examples more close. Imagine there is not enough information. So you get some information but not enough to make a very rational decision. So what the brain will do then? One of the cases or one of the proxies that the brain has is to find a pattern in a sparse data. And this is actually why the superstitions appear. This is why some people think, okay, if I catch the bus early when I go out to work, then the day will be great. Or if I meet a black cat, actually then the day will be super bad. While not the bus, not the cat, has nothing to do with whatever happens afterwards with your day. Still, our brain tries to find some patterns because then it's easier to make decisions and easier to behave afterwards. And even though we are having some problems with the projector that's not the big problem for me, I still can see the slides here. Yeah, thanks. So I will go on in any case because the next thing I wanted to talk to you is a more specific example of the situation when our brain doesn't have enough details and then tries to look for them. And the situation is that then we try to generalize things. So we try to find some rules which are common to all the situations and then we can apply them. And the specific case when we do that is called survivorship bias. This is also kind of cognitive bias that we use a lot, but then can also lead us to wrong decisions. And the vivid example of this cognitive bias is the situation which happened during the Second World War in the US Army. US Army wanted to have a better aircraft so they wanted to reinforce the aircraft with some way that will prevent damage and then that more aircraft will survive and now more people also will survive. So what they did, they looked at all the aircrafts that came back to the base and they look okay where we have the most damage and then they put all the spots in the places where the most damage was made. And then the military people thought okay, so we should put more armor in these places and then the aircraft will be more stable. It sounds reasonable, right? Do you think it sounds reasonable? No. I see some people are already guessing there is a trick around. Actually this was a very wrong decision and the good, they didn't make it. And luckily they had a big group of statisticians working for US Army to help them exactly with the difficult situations like that. And one of the statisticians, Abraham Wald, told them, okay guys, actually you are looking not on the full data, you just look at those aircrafts that survived, but those which did not survive, they will provide us with most valuable information because they got the damage that was lethal so they couldn't come back, they crashed. And for example, if the plane was hit in the tail, it would never come back to the base. So this is the place where we should put more armor. The places where are not damaged in the aircraft survived, we should put more armor. And this is a typical example of survivorship bias. This is what the military experienced. They just looked at those who'd survived the situation and never considered the others. And this is what we often do also in everyday life. We look at the people who are very successful because we also want to be successful in something and we try to look for some success secret. But in fact, we just look at the people who were survivors of the specific situation. And we never look at those who did not make it through. And these people may have had very similar education, had great parents, had a lot of good stuff and made some great decisions and they also were dedicated and they had a big dream, but they still didn't make it through. And if we don't look at those, we don't get a full picture because actually those who did not survive can give us a hint what were the crucial mistakes that you should never do. Or also we can learn from them that sometimes it's not just about what you do but also about luck. And here you should not over generalize as well. So I'm not saying that luck is the only thing for success, right? They're always a combination, but you need both luck and also dedication and hard work. So this is something to have in your head when you read all these success stories in magazines. We now went through several cognitive biases just to remind you, we talked about false memories. You remember the guys that remember they picked the card which they actually never picked and this is just an example of the false memory. We saw that fast non-rational decisions are prompted by our environment, by our life and often this can be wrong decisions or just at least non-rational decisions. Like again with a card, the person has to pick the card very fast and didn't have time to make rational decision. We have experienced the curse of knowledge. I told you example of 15 by four. This is what we have here often but also maybe in your own life you had experienced that we are looking for patterns and sparse data and this is why we have superstitions or why gamblers also come up with certain rules in which they believe that will help them win. And we talked about the survivorship bias and specific example of the airplanes but as you see it also applies to many other areas of our lives. So it looks kind of scary, right? There are a lot of bad things that happen to us. There are a lot of cognitive biases and how can we live with that? I don't know maybe next each time we should sit with a piece of paper write down everything, make a very rational decision. Do you think this is the way to go? No, okay. Yeah, I also think this is not really necessary. So it's important to remember sometimes we don't need the best decision. We just need to make a decision fast enough and it should be good enough that we can go on. For example, you go to a supermarket to buy butter. You don't want to look at all the packages of different brands of butter and decide which one is precisely the best one, right? This is not so important. You just pick one, go one, you have more important stuff to do. This is why it's also okay to sometimes be led by cognitive biases and let your brain decide for you. However, in other cases, for example, probably presidential election, you want to be very rational about what you do like and use your logic. So sometimes it's also good to sit down, think what are the arguments, pro and cons, what is the opposite point of view to the situation and make a more rational decision in this case. And with this, I would like to leave you with this maybe scary but also very interesting list of different cognitive biases you can experience. I encourage you very much to investigate more on this topic. You can find this picture if you type in cognitive bias codecs in your Google or you just go cognitive bias Wikipedia and you get a long list. You can just randomly read some of the articles and you will already learn a lot. I think this is a topic which will really enrich your life in case you use it with rationality. You can be rational, it's good to be rational, but not every time. Thank you very much. Ah. Well, thank you, Victoria. So we have time for some questions. Someone, please. Yeah, I'm a little bit confused about the concept of cognitive bias because it seems like it's a little bit broad for me, but I want to pose one question here. It's like, what do you mean by a rational decision somehow? Because you are all the time talking about irrational and rational, but we know that rational decisions also are irrational. So in that concept, I want you to point out what do you mean about making a rational decision because we know that the cognitive bias actually is pushing you to make that decision. So the question is how you define a rational decision and how the cognitive bias can intervene, is this? Yes, okay. Of course, there are cases where rational decision is just not possible because, for example, we cannot predict the future and we don't know which of the decisions will lead to the better future. But in some cases, there is a clear difference between rational decision and non-rational, like more logical and less logical. For example, you get more money and you get less money. Or sales lead to you buying more stuff. Actually, you lose a lot of money. You're not saving the money because you would just buy more stuff than you should. And this is clearly a non-rational decision, even though we feel this is something we want to do. For any of us against all the news theories about how we make decisions is actually, and there is a lot of studies that says that you are just speaking something that is irrational at the beginning, but then you are aware that you took the decision so you think it's rational, but it's not. So the continuation of the question is, what about the news studies on a rational decision, Nobel Prize, for example? Yeah, honestly speaking, I don't see the contradiction to what I said. I think this is partially a question of definitions. But the rational decision here is meant, the decision which actually is more logical for anyone, like absolute. The other question is we often make irrational decisions and then we post-trationalize. This is what I also told you, and this is cognitive bias, and they exist. I'm not saying anyone is clearly rational. This is, of course, also not true. There isn't, but you need to continue with discussion after the event. So please. Do you see the conditions where we might see with autonomous driving and decision making this risk of cognitive bias in the programming of the vehicles and the protocols of how they deal with traffic situations? And somebody says, I'd like some kind of software that says, I'll be a little bit quicker on a red light, it's going to green. Is there an issue that the programmer's cognitive bias would actually appear in how the autonomous vehicles from different companies would behave in the same traffic situation? So the question is if concept of cognitive biases also applicable for the artificial intelligence system, essentially. For example, autonomous driving. I have to first excuse myself. I'm not expert in the topic of autonomous driving. So if anyone is a better expert, maybe you can talk later. I guess this is not going to happen because normally when we program things, we apply quite a rational logic. So it's not so easy to irrationally program from my imagination, but I have to say I'm a biologist. So maybe I have a very wrong understanding of programming. Maybe your neighbor can actually tell you better. Sorry for putting you in this situation, but probably you know better. We have time for one more question, please. I have a question, but a comment says, if you program a system, probably you can remove devices, but most of artificial intelligence systems are based on data. And if the data has a bias, then it will automatically be gone. And there are many systems which you show, for example, spatial recognition systems. They recognize white people more easily than black people. And this is based on data, and this is a program. So the commentary was essentially what the cognitive bias of artificial intelligence is a cognitive bias of the data on which you train the model. So I know some stuff about this particular topic. Yeah, OK, good. Do you want to answer the question? No, no, no. I'm a writer here, sorry. But I think then again the question of definition comes because normally we say cognitive to something which applies to human intelligence. And I'm not sure if it's fully accepted yet that artificial intelligence also have the cognitive things happening, like can it have the cognitive bias? It can have a bias. Will it be cognitive? I think this is an open question. Sorry, we will go for one more question, please. I have a simple question. When you recognize a cognitive bias, even if you do come to the conclusion that you're actually being biased towards something, can you actually overcome it? Because more often than not, we actually try to confirm our rational decisions if it's even rational. The question is if you feel or can understand what you have cognitive bias, can you overcome this in yourself? I think you can. But situations might be different. So I also was interested in this topic because I felt myself that it helps me to make better decisions in cases when it's really important. So in case when it's really important, when I'm about to make a very important decision, I really take a step back. I don't follow my first intuition, like to think, OK, I had some experience and I think it should be always like that. I really try to explore other options. If I'm strongly against something, I try to find out what are the opinions of other people who are pro something and what are the arguments and then logically wait. So I think it is doable. Depends on how much time you have probably. You can continue on the out of the event. This is very interesting topic. Thank you, Victoria.