What's up everybody? How's it going? We are here for classic cast number 11 We're here for classic cast number 11, and we are here with Cren d'Or the the artist formerly known as wow Cren d'Or along with my friends tips out and stay safe and Cren d'Or do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself? Sure, I can do that Hello everybody. I am Cren d'Or formerly known as wow Cren d'Or, but pretty much the same thing I've been doing YouTube for it's gonna be ten years in January, which is kind of insane because that's like a chunk of my life essentially Get people always that'll combined like dude Cren d'Or. I used to watch you when I was like eight All right So it's just I know people have like gone through tears of school in the time They've like watched me so I'm like it's cool, man But yeah, I used to make a lot of wow machinimas back I started like around wrath of the lich king and then After doing YouTube for a while. I like branched out Well, I guess I did wow YouTube then I branched out into a variety YouTube and then I was lucky enough to get on things like the Co-optional podcast and get to know a bunch of people and then I started streaming and Now I've been streaming for about Five years. I've been streaming for like five years now because I've got some subs that are around 60 ish months So it's just one of those things where like I've just been in the been in the industry for so long that it's like just I feel like one of those like old veteran sports guys when you think like like basketball or foot like a Like Terence Newman Like yeah, I've been around, you know, it's not like a name you're gonna hear at home all the time But like you just you've been around you have connections, you know people and I just kind of keep floating around So that's fine with me. I like I like just floating around. Yeah And you have over over 500,000 subs on YouTube floating around so that's pretty good, too. Yeah Yeah But yeah, and then I mainly got into YouTube and journal just because a while So, I mean I got started playing vanilla wow way back in 2005 it was January 2005 so I start things in January essentially is what I've learned about myself Yeah, and yeah, so I think when did vanilla come out it's like November of oh remember Yeah, it's like a couple months after that. I remember because All my friends were getting vanilla.  You didn't have like battle net or anything like I see an old-school battle net But like, you know, it wasn't anything like it is now Yeah, and so I remember I went to GameStop and I bought the the box Like the the actual box, you know, and then they only had two left and so I got one of the remaining two Old vanilla wow boxes and everybody else was sold out because it was crazy So I was like, I'm just gonna go buy it and then you couldn't find it anywhere. It's crazy Yeah, and then I was just hooked from there on yeah, I think if I if I remember here in this right I think they sold out like on launch Like it was it was almost impossible to find after like right after launch And then they had to like it it was almost like a second launch like the amount of like stuff that they had to put back out And it wasn't like it is now like it's like now everybody just like downloads whatever expansion or whatever game they want like through steam or It's crazy how things have changed in like that amount of time. Yeah, I mean There's sort of like it was like almost like a second relaunched during Christmas because it came out Mm-hmm, you know, like almost a month before Christmas in December. I Don't think they expected it to have like the amount of sales that it actually did I think even they were surprised in a way. I mean, I guess they did have things like steam But it's not like the steam we know today Like people would buy like box copies like I got a box copy of Half-Life 2 and and orange box. I think I Think I got both of them in the store. I Kind of miss that too. Yeah under the stores and seeing all the boxes like on the on the display on the walls and stuff Yeah, it's kind of fun. Yeah, for sure so um You were you've been out a while like as like your main focus for a while now and I know like you said you've been streaming for like, you know five years now and Recently like you've been streaming a lot of League of Legends Like what are you? What are you looking at and as far as like getting back into Wow? I mean, I think if they are just gonna wait for classic I've been playing some BFA. I really like BFA too like I've been doing all the The pre-expansion stuff and then me and my friends who've been like getting some transmog gear and doing all that but I've really liked what I've played so far lore wise. I don't know if I like it so much But I mean in terms of like gameplay and having fun like I pretty much have made a priest for half the expansions And then I played a druid in wrath. I played a mage in Legion and TBC but everything else I played priest and so I was just kind of tired of Pastors and I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna make a warrior So I just boosted my like 73 warrior I've had since vanilla because he's just got I used to use him as like my gathering guy He had mining herbalism and I would go to ashara And I would just go like and get all the herbs and ashara and then I would go up to winter spring And I would mine thorium and I would do that for hours and then that's That's how I make money in vanilla. Wow 14 at the time, so I don't even know if it was a good way to make money Do you typically play alliance or horde when you play? I'm pretty much horde. I did play alliance last expansion But primarily horde. I've made a I've been an undead priest and a goblin priest essentially gotcha So whenever like so what what's your vanilla experience right like farming mines? You know mining thorium. That's one Yeah, what else do you do in vanilla? So that's like a long time to level in vanilla. Wow, because I'm not great at video games Which I think people who watch my streams have figured that out And so back then I remember I got to like level 43 I got to my early 30s and wow and then I quit what I played Star Wars galaxies for a while because I was like It was taking forever to level And then all my friends quit and played that too But then we came back and so that I got like 43 and I still don't have my mount at 43 So your mount was just expensive to actually buy or the training was the man. It was one of the two It was really expensive. And so I I finally got it then and then I Pretty much played up to 60 and then I saw a guy in Orgrimmar and he was wearing the What's the shaman tier one? Earth something yeah earth something it looks like good like volcano like But I saw that and I was like, oh my god, that looks so cool I want that. Yeah, and so I wanted to raid earth theory. That's what is and so It made me want to raid and so I was like, well, I want to join a guild so I joined Just one of the like top guilds with my friends on the server and then I guess there wouldn't be a top guild So it wouldn't even invite me in but like, you know a guild that could Do 40 man raiding which in itself is kind of crazy to get 40 people together all at the same time And so then we just raided molten core and then I just kept progressing and I did all of the vanilla raids Except for next at the end of it. Nice. That's awesome. Yeah Dude, it's so funny that you mentioned the like, you know, just seeing that shaman seeing the earth theory shoulders and like that That's like totally gone in the game now with transmog like people still have like oh like I want to transmog to that Like that's what people want but like people that guy was wearing those shoulders because they were good, right? He wasn't wearing them because you know, they look cool, right? It's like if they look cool That's great, but like people wear the gear for the stats and often times the gear with the best stats They look the coolest, you know Now while I actually like with the current state of the game I actually couldn't imagine not having transmog in like, you know in retail Wow, just given how everything's gone and also the fact that I don't think a lot of the gear looks cool like a lot of the newer gear, yeah, but I Just think it's funny like how how stuff like that's changed so much, you know, you look back on it The game has changed a lot That's something that I I kind of miss too because that's the it's the whole argument behind like epics were epic But it's you know, it's almost extended beyond that because they really were epic because you saw somebody wearing it And it made you be like, oh my god, that's literally epic. Well, it's so cool. I want that I want to do that thing to get that while now it's like, oh, where do I go like farm to get that in like a few hours Yeah, I definitely like to value looking cool.  That's a really good way of putting it And it wasn't even just like that gear like you had to have your other sets to like your fire resist set You had to have your like a nixia cloak like there's you had to swap between things It wasn't just like well, I've got my one thing equipped and that's it But I mean I see why they did it it simplifies it Um, and it used to be different used to be more of a role-playing game. I think and now it's more of a You know It is what it is now. Yeah, I kind of I say it's more like action rpg now No, they have slowed the game down quite a bit in bfa compared to legion, but it's still a lot of the same as far as like Them having like gone away from what classic was. I think they pulled back a little bit, but it's still still ways to go Yeah, but I mean I still appreciate it for what like it is currently. It's just it's definitely not What it used to be and I think uh, that's the big thing with classic wow coming up is I want to see What it really used to be because I've forgotten because it's been like 15 years, you know, yeah, exactly So that's uh, that's why I'm really looking forward to it Yeah, and that's really like one of the big things and and we talk about this, you know all the time and This is really going to be the the main uh, you know the main focus of this podcast probably is uh talking about like nostalgia as far as classic goes versus game design Because you know, they're two different games right now the retail game and the classic game are really two different games and uh, some people like one some people like the other and some people like both and then that's fine, right? but um A lot of the argument against classic has a lot of people say that oh, it's a big nostalgia trip and people just want That that's just what people want right people just want the nostalgia and then they're going to get bored or whatever They're not going to like it What what do you guys think about that? I mean when you look at every every like publicly available piece of data out there about vanilla You can see that you know, it does extend beyond nostalgia and it's it kind of it's bigger than classic itself There's a lot of people that think the older way of doing things or just like old things in the past are naturally not as good As the things we have today, but there's such thing as timeless classes like we have the godfather in cinema We have you know in television shows like things like sopranos and stuff like that we have stairway to heaven and music There are some things that are just good and they're timeless and they endure you know 10 years 20 years 30 years And uh, I consider classic to be one of those things. I don't think it's just nostalgia I just think the game design happened to endure and I think it's something that even 10 20 years from now You can enjoy, you know I think um, so I go ahead I was gonna say yeah, yeah, I agree with him like um, all that is true and vanilla. I've definitely It it it stands its own. I think regardless of what year it is. It's a very very good game And on top of that, I just don't think there's anything really wrong with nostalgia either I mean have who here has gone back to replay ocarina of time or or whatever like or or any old game You played near a kid like just because you played it then and enjoyed it then does not mean that you know in current year It's a bad game, right? It is timeless like tips out suggested Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I mean It's just one of those things where it gets Spoken about so much by uber plague. I don't know what it was like in vanilla. Wow you So I think so many people Want to go back and be like, all right How was this vanilla?  So That's something that is is more than likely gonna happen with classic, but it's not going to be something that Should be alarming. I think that's something that should be expected Um, you know, some people might come back and you know, they just might want the taste for the nostalgia Some people might you know, just want to see what it's like for the first time. I think that's a lot of people Um, one of the biggest things that I've noticed one of the biggest things that I've noticed is that whenever People talk about classic coming out It most people are saying that oh like I started playing at the end of vanilla or like I started playing burning crusades So like I just missed it. I you know, I was start I was leveling but I really didn't get to experience vanilla Um, like everybody talked about right And I think I think that's what's going to be the Honestly, probably a heavy population of the people who played classic not necessarily people who Played on private servers or people who were hardcore raiders in vanilla, right? You take the method guys for example like scope. I think scope completed naks. Yeah, he completed naks in In vanilla. Wow, you know, it's not going to be a lot of guys like that There's going to be some guys like that for sure There's going to be some guys that are private server guys for sure, but It's I think the overall Community the the biggest chunk of the community is people who either just missed it and played in the original trilogy Or people who started playing but but didn't really get to max level whenever Whenever vanilla was actually there Yeah, I definitely think I would probably bet that that the majority of classic players will have not played it before ever 80 to 90 easily I would say it's going to be a huge majority I mean just think about it like what 12 million people maybe 15 million people in total probably played vanilla back in the day Not counting like the concurrent subs and like How many people have played wow like over 200 million or something? I read that once So it's like just by that virtue you're going to have like 80 to 90 of people that have never touched it before And a lot of them are going to enjoy it. I mean even the young kids I remember reading the nostalgia is supposed to mordom Like what was like a third of the people that played on that server were between the ages of like 13 to like 20 or something like they were probably too young to ever play it When it was actually live, but a lot of people, you know, even the younger audiences seem to like it. So Yeah, definitely I think it's more just because it's like a different style of game like it is that more old school rpg Style game and that's kind of morphed into this but like back then you had to you know You had to click on each individual flight path. It's those little like inconveniences That a lot of people remember even like not as many graveyards being around Or you know, just having to walk everywhere and you know, it just it slows everything down when you slow it down You start to appreciate everything around you a little bit more Yeah, and that definitely contributes to the satisfaction of of accomplishing a goal because you know This was really annoying or inconveniencing to work through the steps to accomplish the goal But I finally worked through it and accomplished it But that's that's a funny thing tips brings up. There's going to be a lot of people playing classic That weren't even born when vanilla wow was out Like a like 10 11 12 year olds like we're there's going to be kids playing Yeah, well like one of my uh, so so in raid three one of my officers his son and him play wow together and I mean like he's in college now. I think he's a I think he's a sophomore junior in college now But uh, it's like he grew up with wow like he was like five years old And he just like would you know sit at the computer and just like wasd and just had no idea what he was doing But he played a little bit of vanilla again Not having any idea what he's doing eventually like got the point where he's like really good and he got gladiator and stuff I think a couple times this last expansion But there's people like that where they they've grown up with the game and they just they want to go back And they want to experience it for real, right I guess that's kind of what I want to do too is I want to just go back and Replay that nostalgia just to kind of Clarify if it's either my rose tinted glasses or whatever they say it is or if it's actually how it was Yeah So it's one of the things where you basically you want to go back and finish And I think a lot of people are like that too where they they didn't get to finish and they want to go back and beat the game I uh, I actually went and So I love kingdom hearts, but I never actually finished the first kingdom hearts and a while back You know like I I I rented it and I I got to the very last world and I didn't finish But a while back I went and got it again And I went and played through the whole thing and it was so satisfying to actually go back and finish kingdom hearts one After like, you know, I think 14 years 13 years that had been out And I think a lot of people kind of want the same thing within a while the difference is that you can't really go back and Uh, you can't really go back and pick it up legit and and go through and play it again And uh, I think that's that's what's going to be so awesome about plastic for sure Yeah, absolutely like it's just can you imagine like if every time jk rallying released the new harry potter book the previous harry potter book Would suddenly disappear from like all shells, you know Yeah, it's like we just be like with harry potter seven just like wait. What happened in the first book, you know So it's nice definitely Yeah, it uh it even with like Um lore wise it was kind of weird because Uh, when I played vanilla wow, I didn't really know anything about the lore. I didn't even play like a warcraft rts game So this was like all brand new to me. I'm just like, oh cool orcs.  There's always something crazy like laser cannon like Her ship flies into shooting like arcane cannons. It's like it's just way over the top. It feels like compared to how it was in vanilla wow Yeah, I think so, uh, it's I think you're right I think it was more of like a humble adventurer's journey type of experience because I mean and then there was so much more A variety it felt like it's like a molten core And then you're going to blackwing lair, which I mean that's still in black rock mountain But then you're like going to silith this and I think it's because everything was in that old world That you still felt a little like connected to it wherever you went because you're like, oh, yeah, I leveled here I know there's a raid here or like I didn't know there was a raid here and stuff like that. So it's Um, I don't know. I just enjoyed traveling all over the world So in the expansion's head, it's like you go here now Like that is the place you play this new expansion Yeah, but back then it was like, you know, the the entire world was your game And so you can just go everywhere and explore and there's all the different biomes in the different world And it was just on those is different. Yeah, it was cool. It was really cool. So did you uh When you started playing wow, you said you started playing wow because a lot of your friends were playing wow Did did you play warcraft or anything before that? Did you play any other mmo's before that? I know you said you played star rooster galaxies, but Before wow The only mmo rpg that I played was called mu online And it was an old school korean Diablo s game online is imagined diablo, but online in korean That's pretty much this game.  I just took a zeppelin and now I'm fighting Croclists or whatever. I'm like, dude, I want to fight croclists You know it's like you don't know anything You just you hop on a zeppelin you're in strangle thorn But for all you know, you're just you're just on this little adventure of like wow I'm level 10 and I just took a zeppelin and I'm in a whole new world and I'm getting attacked Yeah So that uh The mystery the mystery behind it was kind of fun as well I remember coming from from old school runescape like way back and we're talking to 2004 And then transitioning to wow and like as a kid my mind was blown because I didn't even know that computer games Could have graphics that good because runescape look terrible, right? It's like such a giant visual upgrade Like my mind was absolutely annihilated Yeah going from like point to click to like 30 abilities on your action bar if not more and like being able to buy a mount and stuff like that it just Like I came from old I came from escape classic and it was just like the upgrade was just insane, you know Hmm Redscape classic by the way Hey, uh real quick mcconnell just hosted us mcconnell. Thank you so much for the host dude. I really really appreciate that Can can we get some can we get some hearts for mcconnell for for mick consistent? We do that. That'd be good. That'd be real good Dude, I have uh one mcconnell story I think after I fished with azman gold Um, I learned who mcconnell was and one time he showed up in my chat and all he said was repeatedly Banned me. I bet you won't ban me. I've been said that and then we banned him and he never came back so I mean We did what he wanted and uh, you know So, uh, okay, so so how When when do you actually like not when but but how or why did you start getting into machinima because you started in wrath? Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm. How did you how did you start getting into that? What kind of like that? Um, there was a lot of old school machinima or as oxhorn was one of them Um Rurikawa is another there's just a lot of people that where they do it But it's more of a hobby because it was you couldn't make money off of it yet Right.  It's like, uh I don't know if you would so, um Yeah back then I was like, you know what a lot of these people aren't even making Uh videos anymore and I really enjoyed these wild videos I really enjoyed the wild machinimas and everything like that. And so I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna do it myself. And so I just did and that was kind of the, uh The reason I got into making wild machinimas was just because I wanted more and nobody was making any Did you have a video editing background or do you sort of have to pick up these skills as you like Oh, I had no no video editing background whatsoever If uh, if you've watched any of my videos prior if you actually if you've just watched any of my videos You will very well see that I have no background video editing Um, but I mean my first ever video. I remember I made with windows movie maker and it was um It was bad like I did a stream where I went back and I watched my old videos and anything before 2012 ish just like I cringe visibly as I watch it. It it pains me, but then I kind of I kind of got progressively better at it. Um, And then, you know, there's still people that are far superior at like video editing and stuff like nixium Nixium is insane with machinimas. If you watch Nixium, I'm like, wow. He tried teaching me adobe after effects one time and I was like, dude It's it's you're not getting anywhere with this You know, but I think uh, it's it's become my style almost my like really shitty video editing Um, so I mean I embrace it It's funny. I always think like If I had got into streaming or youtube just any sort of content creation Uh, you know, however many years ago All right, it's like people are like, oh like, you know If you if you start a long time ago Like oh well you get in early and you're like in on the ground floor or whatever But I think like if I had done it like five years ago, I probably would have been like terrible One I would have probably said something that would get me in trouble now. That's one Two I I just I don't think I would have had like the social skills and just the like the ability to be personable Like stuff like that that I learned like from doing real life for a few years Like I think I just would have been boring. I don't know like I don't think I would have been there Yeah, I was very socially awkward. I was you know, I never left my house never go outside So I mean making those videos, you know, I didn't know how to Act or react with interactions and like he like hello friends You know that type of thing so I mean like when I went to blizzcon in 2011 That was like the first real like social Uh thing I'd went like the first like big party Like that I'd been to and so I remember that because there's videos of me from blizzcon 2011 Being visibly nervous as I linked a lot like I would I would do this in a lot of the videos, right? Just keep blinking I know that I was doing that And that was in a lot of just like interviews and stuff and I said awkward thing Like I remember somebody interviewed me and they're like, what's your favorite game? And I was like it is Diablo. Just kidding. It is world of warcraft and I was like Why did I say that? Yeah, and so like a lot of it's just it's fun to look back because it's like you watch yourself grow It's as a person and so it's kind of I mean, it's fun to go back and do that But like, you know, it's it's not fun at the same time Yeah, uh, by the way guys, I've seen a few uh, I've seen a few questions in the chat We'll get to we'll get to q&a at the end here. Uh, we do have uh We don't have super long because uh credor actually has to leave You know relatively soon But uh, you know compared to like a really long podcast But we are going to get to a q&a eventually before before crendor has to leave I gotta go to the doctor per uh my weekly visit at this point I've gotten everything ripped off of me and out of me this year. It's been very fun. Let me tell you Yeah, it's um, I see I see your face is like oh the shit's gone. Oh my god. Do you have ligma?  I had my gallbladder out in February I had my toenails removed last month both my big toenails um And it's just uh, let me tell you something Uh, when you get a catheter put in not many things Uh, can top that in terms of fun Oh, it sounds it sounds like a great time sensation I'm just I'm trying to get back to being healthy It's what I've been trying to do for the rest of this year because it's like Not having a gallbladder the toenail story is like pretty much Pretty much what happened was like my big toenails, right? If this was my toenail like the the nail got pushed back and so the entire like nail bed got inflamed I don't know how I did it But like apparently they're like, oh, yeah a lot of joggers get this and a lot of uh I don't know like athletes and stuff like that. I'm neither of those. So I was like, I don't know how I got this But I guess it's probably my shoes fit badly or something Yeah So then that got infected and they're like just soak your feet and up some salt water I'm like, okay, so I did that it didn't do anything. All right surprise.  Oh, well, that's too bad and I was gonna say you don't have to take your nails anymore Yeah Um, but yeah, I mean it was easier than the gallbladder surgery at least but yeah, just I'm tired of I'm tired of uh constantly dealing with medical thing.  That's like, uh, man, I need to not sit in a chair all day. Yeah. Yeah Um, I don't even remember what we were talking about. I just went on one of my random tanges So, um, we were talking about being socially awkward, I guess Do you think this just a thought that popped my head Do you think that classic players are less socially awkward than retail players considering how Socially engaging the game is like, what do you think about that? Um That's a good point because I do remember Classic WoW being more of a social experiment or a social experiment a social experience because um Each server was essentially like its own Little world, you know, and so in classic WoW it's like, oh Uh, I logged in today and I see the same guy every day when I log into orgrimmar in the morning Like there's uh, you know, you didn't know him as Jim, but it's like there's torgar Hey, torgar's at the auction house again. Just like he is every day at 10 a.m So it's like those little things kind of made Uh, this Experience that much more social. I guess it it can translate over to real life But I don't know, you know the science and the psychology behind it all but I'm sure it has helped a lot of people Yeah, I I think it's funny like So so nmp nick palm went on a he had a he had a rant a little short rant that was on live stream fail Uh about a month ago about how in retail WoW right now you never have like a real like personal experience with anybody and He was like doing a quest or something and somebody came by to help him And like like he's actually talking about it. He's talking about how like, you know, like you don't see this anymore Like nobody really like tries to help anybody and then the guy in game is like Hey, like, you know, you don't see many like like literally almost the exact same thing that he was saying in the game And he's like there it is like and it was somebody who uh said they were new to the game So it was like he was just kind of the person who's new to the game was just kind of confused He was like, yeah, I don't know like I never really get to talk to anybody even though it's an mmo Like I just kind of like do my thing So it's cool that like they were having a conversation like that was like a real connection that That he had with somebody through the video game Yeah, because it's like um now it's you you click a button And you can do whatever you want like, uh raid click Dungeon click pvp click Yeah, yeah, you're like you're going to the freaking you're doing uber eats. It's like a uh like one raid, please. Thank you And it just like it comes right to your door, dude I don't even pay $50 One mount, please And I don't even think it's a terrible thing I just think it's different But I do wish there was still the option to have that like oh these are the you know The non cross realm servers. I think that would be cool if they even had non cross realm servers Just even if it was like 10 of them. Yeah or something Yeah, I I do I do think that's how RP servers still operate like that. Don't they there's no phasing Isn't that right? There's no phase because you still have the cues and stuff like that Right and you can still invite someone over to your realm if you're if they're in your in your party Yeah, exactly. I think like there's a big misconception out there a lot of people I hear a lot of people say this that the modern gamer just is not a social and it's not that You know, the modern game is less social than vanilla. It's that people today No longer want to talk to each other and stuff like that. I mean, I honestly couldn't disagree more I just think the systems and you know, how vanilla used to incentivize you grouping up with people and talking to people Meeting people those systems have been stripped from the game Yeah, you put an acute into the game. All of a sudden nobody has to talk to anybody else Because they can just put a push a button, you know, when you put all this different I guess the streamline features into the game It takes away from the incentive or the requirement to talk to other people But when you see people actually engaging in the social aspects of the game like yesterday I spent on your stream when we did that big grade Like you see people they're hyped up in the chat, you know, they've never done a 40 man raid on or gomar storm Or whatever like they want to do it They want to do it and they get so amp when it happens even though they've never done it before and it's like It's not that the gamer has changed, you know, 10 years of gaming habits has not undone You know thousands of years of human psychology people still want to be around other people at the end of the day They want to experience things socially It's just about creating systems that cater to that psychological need and those systems have been stripped away I think I think the perfect example is drain or with the garrisons and everybody always references Drain or like drain or it was the worst that it it was the worst because It forced you to play the single player game and that's like the exact opposite of wow What was supposed to be I remember I was going to say like tips tips. You said it really well players definitely respond to incentives and human psychology has not changed Oh, we lost you say we lost you you hear me. Hello. Yeah Yeah, human psychology doesn't change. You're absolutely right But the the incentivization system has changed like before you were incentivized like you could you couldn't really do anything Uh in vanilla, if you weren't communicating negotiating associating, you know Affiliating whatever whatever we're doing is with other players teamwork was crucial and now, you know, you can you can do almost Bar high level arena high level mythic plus and mythic rating. You can probably do everything in retail Wow without ever talking to anyone, you know Yeah, that's that's totally a 180 from how the game used to be and and people are going to take the path of leisure distance Just naturally right and it's like there's there's high end mythic content There's all that stuff sure but with titan forging and all this other stuff that's been added into bfa The classic does not have or retail. The classic does not have People are going to get that same sort of feeling of like completing like oh, it's like I've seen all the content Right. I've seen all of antorus in in legion and I have I I I'm in a rating guild, but I don't raid with the guild. I just do like viewer raids and LFR and stuff like that I think it's weird that I've completed the highest tier of content As far as like being able to see everything um Like playing as casually as I do when it comes to like a rating perspective I think that's weird and it's like, oh, well, you didn't do mythic It's like, yeah, I know but like that my my point is it still stands like I'm talking about Like physically going into the raid and seeing all the bosses. I don't know. I think uh, that's it's weird It's not as rewarding Well, I think it uh, it depends on what your end goal is if your end goals just see all the content Well, you'll be happy with LFR.   Go pull three mobs as a warrior Have a good time. You know what I mean? Like you want to challenge yourself Go try to solo more ladim at the appropriate level like there's so many ways To challenge yourself during the leveling process and actually get a rush out of it to actually like encounter something dangerous Whereas now it's like I want to do mythic But first I have to wait for these rng legendaries to drop for me I have to wait until I finish, you know, this time gated quest line and ceremony and all this stuff Um, I know a lot of that's been taken away from bfa and that's a great thing but it's like It feels like if you want to play at the most competitive level If you want to challenge yourself, you're somehow unable to do so without investing, you know Not necessarily time into the game, but without investing subscriptions and waiting for time gates to pass Before you can actually get to that content Yeah, I just uh, I didn't really like any of the time gating things that remind me of animal crossing But the thing with animal crossing is I don't have to pay a subscription for it And I play it on my ds or I'm like, all right. I did my like three things for the day I'll wait, you know 24 hours with wow.  Yeah and I think like in uh, so in classic, I mean there there are things that it's like, yeah, it's going to take you time, but It's a little bit different whenever it's like for example, like I'm trying to get my army of the light rep up on On lesion and or in bfa or whatever right now in retail And I want the light bringer title. That's what I want. I want I want to spend the light bringer and I basically like I as far as I know it's just I have to go and do these daily quests over and over again And it's like I can do a finite number of things And they reset every day and it's like sure that's great but As far as I know there's not more that I can do to do it faster and Uh, I don't know. There seems to be a lot of that in the current game Yeah, I think there's a big difference like In in having content intentionally time gated that you can only like do like it Like you just said you can only do so much per day And then content that just takes a really long time Like it does a vanilla like ranking or farming whatever rep or farming whatever you're trying to do I think one, you know the way of vanilla. I've did it It might even take longer But it like every step of the way feels more rewarding because every day you're chipping like I don't know like What do you guys think it that the the vanilla wild feel definitely feels way more rewarding for me? Yeah, yeah, it's uh one of the things I thought about with as like talents And I always thought it was rewarding when you level up every level You can spend a talent point and I'm like, all right great. Even if it's 1% crit I feel I still feel like I'm progressing towards something like nice. They got 1% more crit Well now you level up and you don't get anything It's like, well, you know, you don't get another talent for another 15 levels And it's like I wouldn't even care if they had like a big talent tree and it was like pick a color and I'm like red And it's like good job. You're red Like and it didn't mean anything but I'd feel like there was something there They'd be like nice. I'm red Like this is awesome It just feels like you've earned something and I feel like that's what vanilla did so well Is it made you feel like you earned everything that you got? Yeah, it's so funny that you say that because I talk about this all the time And I think uh, I think I've talked about it in the last classic cast But in vanilla wow you're you're Feeling that constitutive progression by getting a bunch of small wins I just call them small wins like you level you got a talent point you you do this you do that There's there's a lot of like small like mini progressions that you have From level one all the way to level 60 like you always feel like you're doing something The it's a grind sure but that grind is rewarding within the grind as opposed to Just rewarding at the end And I think that they added a lot of grindy stuff into Uh into legion And a lot of people like oh like oh the grinding is stupid and this and that like people who who might not be interested in classic And I actually think a lot of the grindy said that they didn't legion was kind of stupid Because they didn't do the grind the right way. It wasn't a rewarding grind. I mean even leveling like so many people Consider leveling to be completely trivial at this point because it's like why I mean, there's no real content. There's no real sense of progression throughout the leveling process I get a talent every 15 levels and it seems like such a waste of time, right? I think that you know to the point where actually I think in the last q&a Ian has costus mentioned that they've considered the thought they don't know how they would do it But they've actually considered the thought of eventually doing a level squish Which is like, yeah, I mean That wouldn't is that a band-aid fix? I don't know would that counteract The the feeling of not having those small wins throughout the the course of the game. I don't know But uh, it's interesting that they've noticed that and they've they've brought that up themselves that there's just too many levels Um, yeah Yeah, no go ahead and sorry um, it almost feels like leveling is Because it's like there's been so many expansions and then I like you have all these levels you go through all these fans It's almost like they're forcing you in a way to be like, you know what just uh, just buy the boost And I bought the $60 boost When it blows down to it, they're a business and as they've grown As a company and learned more about how to make games. They've also learned more about how to make money And more about psychology and marketing and everything and so then you get act division You know sitting up there behind them like yeah, get a set $60 boost get them get those mounts You know, it's just it's It's a it's a different game in that aspect too. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's funny if you think about it I mean $60 to get 110 levels if you work, you know, let's say you make $10 an hour That's six hours. I'm not getting a 110 in six hours, you know Yeah, so it's one of those things where it's like effectively it makes It Well, it's like even back then, you know, you didn't have DLC you didn't have but like mounts You didn't have like any of these things. It was just like you had the game and that's all you had And so I think they tried to keep you playing and grinding a lot back then just through the subscription Because it's like, all right, we make our money through subscriptions, you know But that's well like all those games like ever quest I know it did that too like a lot of those old games did But now there's just so much so many more ways that they can get your money That it's it's very visible if you just kind of look at it wake up people It's it's crazy like the effective real money transactions like as they became More socially acceptable like how companies have just you know, you give them an inch They take a mile sort of thing where they're slowly crossing the lines and crossing the borders every single day What was unacceptable like I remember when the celestial steed came out Do you remember like the uproar like on the forums and just like youtube videos about it?  You can buy gold You can buy whatever you want and all these things would have been considered pay to win back in the day But now it's just like Well, it's more it's it's pay for convenience. It's not pay to win The line just consistently gets crossed Yeah, I have no problem with I have no problem with like cosmetic stuff Like if it's like a non-combat pet or this or that it's kind of like, okay It is what it is right for what retail wow is it's like, okay, sure but uh, I I don't know as it gets into like actual pay to win that's it's always really really bad for the game and I don't I don't think it's quite there yet, but uh I mean, you can kind of say that about about maybe the leveling boosts But well, there's the argument that they I don't know how true this. This is a pretty conspiracy tinfoil hatty But this is intentionally, you know unbalance or rebalance races to incentivize race changes Who knows dude? I don't know I was gonna say Definitely, I I bet that they probably make more money today than they did You know at the end of wrath or at the start of cataclysm when their sub numbers were peaking up I bet they probably think we're money today. They do report it in their earnings. Wow is more profitable today than it's ever been Yeah, yeah, yeah, so so let's talk about this for a second and this has come up a few times but uh, if Uh, you know, people have talked about like if they put a store into classic wow Right whenever wow classic comes out if they if they have like a store for whatever like name changes race changes stuff like this Um I hope that they don't do that personally. I really hope that they don't do that and uh Because there was some things like there was server transfers in vanilla. Wow. I I had one now I believe it was a free server transfer due to population, but I don't know when they added the paid stuff I think burning crusade for server transfers. Although i'm not sure. Was it burning crusade? I I can't remember Um That's a good point. I don't actually remember when it was I think it was like within the last six months of vanilla. Wow actually Yeah, because that's whenever I got my free transfer. So they had a ton of rules related to uh, I remember the end of vanilla was when they started actually Yeah, it might have been the end of vanilla because I remember um, they started announcing a lot of uh, you know Edgy type of things at that point like hey guys, what if we uh, you know, everybody could play shame and in a paladin everyone's like, what? That's not a thing Yeah, you know, we'll just do that and then uh Yeah, some new races throw them in there. What if uh, you know, you can transfer You know, they start like slowly pushing their boundaries at that point And I think that's when it they really started getting into all the additional profit profit measures or everyone to call it. Yeah Yeah, so I think that uh I personally hope that they don't add anything like that. I really don't I honestly think that they won't I don't think that they will Uh, but like you said, they are a business and it's something that uh, I think people have a natural concern about it Because it it probably is going to affect the game to some extent Again, I don't I don't quite have a problem with like the cosmetic stuff But if they're adding in cosmetic stuff, well, that's not vanilla. That wasn't stuff that was in the game So like I don't think they should do any of that. It's like sure Like it's not something that's going to affect the game like balance or whatever as far as like having a storm out but They said vanilla is vanilla and a lot of people hope they're just going to keep it that way This is something this is something I hear every single day just about someone suggesting that, you know, if you collect, you know Ashbringer or corrupted ashbringer in classic weather, you should be able to get that transmog and retail So crossover transmog. What do you think about that?  Just keep it separate. Keep it separate. Well, what's the point of that? You know what?  It's just Please please. Yeah, and I think what what are the cool things about the the classic community is? I'm pretty sure if something like that happened there would be a pretty significant amount of pushback I think in general Uh, the classic community when it comes to kind of preserving the game Especially since g. Allen Bragg said that was the goal for this entire project I think people would get really up in arms if they saw some kind of cash shop Um, I mean, I know I'd make a video about it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, I think the uh As far as cash shop goes. I think that's not good. Uh Name change is a bad one name change is a really bad one because in vanilla while your reputation is everything And if you if you're in a situation where like Somebody goes and like they ninja loot they do this they do that like I mean, I'll tell you right now There was a horde player. There was a horde player. This is this is about uh, this was back one of I was doing my old my old streaming stuff on youtube. There's a horde player Uh shaman who ninjaed naltharians tear a lot of guilds. What they might do is they might go free for all loot And just kind of like okay. Hey, you go get your stuff and you can trust your guildies You're supposed to be able to trust your guildies because you're trying to speed around or whatever an enhancement, sorry an elemental shaman went and ninjaed naltharians tear off of nefarion and Quit the guild logged out whatever and I don't know The story exactly behind why he did it because he stopped playing all together He stopped playing that character all together and didn't just re-roll a character He re-rolled on an alliance side as a paladin after that so it's like His his reputation was so tarnished that he was like he couldn't even play his character anymore It was that crazy Is there is there an item in classic wow that you would pay for a server transfer for to ninja the item So you ninja the new server transfer. Is there is there an item that would be worth it for you guys? Yeah, dude corrupt the dash bring Really you did you have that bounce? Yeah, uh, yeah No, no, I actually uh Accidentally ninjaed something back in the day accidentally And it makes it uh that much worse because of what it was So we were in black wing lair and we killed brood lord And I remember I was just like talking to my friend on the phone And just like not paying attention and so I was like, oh it's a quest item and I picked up lord's head And I was like, oh sweet. I got his head and everyone was like And then they're like you took brood lord's head and I'm like, yeah, and they're like read it And it is like, you know, only one melee at this head and I'm like, dude Oh So I uh, I lost DKP and so I couldn't get like gear for like a week or two So for those of you guys who don't know That that head of brood lord lash lair You need it for the the aq swept scepter quest chain and you can only get one per raid lockout per week and That's a So only one person in your raid can complete that stage of the quest to keep going In order to ring the gong and get the uh, the black carajie, uh Whatever it's called battle tank. Yeah So that's the legendary mount from aq 40. So basically cring door It totally cucks somebody from getting the mouth Yeah, I did and uh, I still have it for this very day in my bank So it sounds like I'm not gonna grind for this. So I don't really care. I'm not gonna get it. And so it's just in my bank So great, dude. That's so terrible I mean, that was just my my way because uh, I missed out on getting all my tier, uh Tier two pieces because of that. I got like, yeah, I'm not surprised Like three or four of the pieces and I ever got like the fourth or fifth or whatever it was Dude, but uh made a good story dude. I cannot imagine if I had been your guild leader. I would have been so big Yeah, what's the thing too?  You can get black listed. You can get yeah So it's like, well, he's got to live with it like yeah Wow, that's crazy. That's crazy But yeah, like I think anything like that like your reputation is so important like stuff like name changes even if it's something that seems so trivial Um, it's not good Server transfer if they had paid server transfers in vanilla, that's that's one thing Like I mean, I know they definitely had them because I got one As far as a free one goes due to population like a little illidan was overpopulated. So I so I got a free transfer to kill the Zod but um But yeah, that was definitely uh, that stuff like that's definitely something that's come up a lot and and like stay safe said They led into what stay safe was saying about how And this happens to me a lot too. People will come into our chats and be like, how do you feel about that like Taking classic wow as an extension of kind of that completionist, you know, doing all the things Uh type of gameplay that people have come up with for for retail. Wow and the thing that's so bad about that the thing that's so bad about being able to do that is People are going to want to get gear not even for the sake of getting the gear for their character and continue playing there You're basically taking these people who want to play that way and they really want to corrupt that ashbringer on their main To go through and do everything in classic And not only that they're taking stuff away From somebody else who's actually going to want to use that in classic There's going to be I guarantee you there's going to be people who are just going to want it Like it's going to be a hunter that's going to want to corrupt that ashbringer So that he has the transmog active so he can use it on his warrior in retail, you know That's what it's going to be I really just like that crossover But I think also at the same time like if you're even in a position to be looting or to be loot counseled a corrupted ashbringer You're invested right like some idiot is just not just going to randomly get one, right? That's true You've put in a time at that point true. There is there is a hunter on retail I can't remember what his name is but he has a corrupted ashbringer I'm getting a YouTube video about it. So yeah, well, I remember actually on killthuzad There was a hunter with corrupted ashbringer, but he got it in burning crusade Um, I can't remember who it was. I think he was in I can't remember but uh, but yeah I know I've seen that before too, but like my point still stands. It's like now like somebody who's in a loot counsel Has that power over somebody in the raid who's going to use it for pvp or something, you know And and I think I think none of that's uh, that that's no good. I think that's so bad But um For the record real quick. I do want to say that, you know, all these are like hypotheticals Based on the dev water cooler update and like the software engineer position that opened I'm pretty confident. Like I'm no longer scared anymore. You know what I mean? Some of these are like really big f ups if blizzard does them I think they're very conscious of what the community wants and hopefully Those they'll steer clear of a lot of this stuff. I think yeah, I think so too I think it's just going to be like a subscription and that's it You know just kind of like how I used to be, you know, you pay your 15 dollars and you get to play the game And there's nothing else. I think that's that's what it should be Do you guys think do you guys think player behavior in early vanilla is going to be really bad with ninja looting and one thing One thing I'm anticipating is a lot of leero jankins people Oh, I'm not going to I'm not going to plug you. I'm everybody's going to do it and everybody's going to think the funniest person in the world Yeah, I'm like guys. I saw this video from like 10 years ago Like dude, you're all we know we all hey, we all know the joke. Okay. We all get it. That's so funny, dude Have you seen the family guy remake of that? Oh my goodness Oh, yes, I actually uh, I actually messaged leroy In wow back in vanilla wow because I had characters on his realm on alliance, which was laughing skull And I remember because I'd see the pals for life guild all over and so, uh I remember, you know, I was like what like 14 15. So I was like leeroy That was a very funny video And he was just like, hey, thanks bud And I was like wow Yeah, it's just you know, I was that annoying kid Like thanks bud, it's like carry on now keep playing your baseball Uh But uh, it's that dude must have gotten so many messages and tells just being like love the video, man. Love the video Yeah That's awesome. I'm definitely anticipating though a lot of ninja looting early on in classic before people realize like The name the negative ramifications of it. I think it'll happen all the time Yeah, there's just gonna be a lot of general ignorance that's gonna spur this stuff on I mean a lot of it like just ninjaing in general like I've ninjaed a couple items in the past I just didn't understand, you know, I didn't understand loot priority. I didn't understand, you know Well, there's there's a dice on my screen too. You know what I mean? So it's like Kind of the most cultural norms have to set in I think I mean ninja and technically exist today, but Oh my god, does it even anymore with the personal loot? I guess not really I just had a flashback to a fun story. So I was in What was it strat home? Uh, not live strat home undead strat Uh, and I was a hunter which was like the hunter I made a lot of my machinima stuff with and I remember I was like gearing up I got my ancient bone bone skull man. So I was like, all right, this is going good And then I went here and I was trying to get my tier It's a 0.5 like the beast stalker Oh, right. Is that what it was called?  It's like, yeah, I can use this roll. I got it even though it's your set Yeah, that was uh That was me with valor gear I uh, yeah, yeah, but here's the thing dude valor gear is paladin gear like warriors should just like wear greens I don't know A fury warrior back then and like barely any people rated as a fury warrior and he just had like full rogue gear Yeah, yeah, like devil sword leather and stuff like that.  So it's it's it's really funny. Like how how the game is uh, how the game The knowledge of the game has has increased just as a whole like everybody knows so much more so In in essence the game has evolved even Like after it's been done like post mortem After it's been done It's it's evolved. So it's it's really crazy to think about stuff like that actually I think that's part of What people are gonna miss the most they used to play vanilla while like me is because back then You'd do all this and you you didn't know anything, you know, there's no data mining There is no wow head or anything like that Like I had thought bot that was more to be like, where is this quest at and then you'd know figure it out but like So many things were just unknown and I think the unknown aspect of vanilla wow back when you were playing it is Like half the fun Of vanilla wow and I'd play like for example when I did start Playing wow that that moment of those like my friends getting off the zeppelin getting killed by crockless It was like, whoa, where is that? How do I go there?  This is like an adventure, you know, you're going on this big unknown adventure now. It's like One new string of code gets added and they're like Like they date them behind the shutout and it's like you know everything before Even the news sites know Yeah Yeah, that's so true and I have to tell you man like I've I've leveled up one to 16 vanilla Maybe five or six times now in my life and every time I go back and re-level I learned something new I find a new quest or find a new little easter egg area or like I'm every time I play I'm I'm always learning more And uh, I mean is that is that true for you guys also or am I just an idiot? No, absolutely, dude. There's always something like Even even as the like the game continues to evolve and I think it'll continue to evolve even after classic launches Like there's still so much that's not really known at the end of the day What's known now about what's known now about vanilla is based on you know, sir private server values And maybe those values are different and maybe that difference impacts itemization. Maybe it impacts, you know How you you know, which profession is true stuff like that So the ripple effect come classic is going to be big and I do think people are going to learn new stuff every day Even those that have been immersed in at the past decade or so, you know Well, even like one of the old horde quest, which is the mancrix wife quest in the barons Like uh, everybody knows it's like a meme now. Like where's mancrix wife? I don't know But like back then the reason it became the meme is because nobody knew where she was Right, you would go into barons chat and you'd be like, where's this quest at? Like I don't know. I can't find his wife.  Wow the most um I don't want us. I don't want us to go over because I know I know you have to go for your doctor's appointment Um, so I think now would be a good time to go into some q&a. Uh, like I said earlier, I know that uh I know I know that a lot of people were asking questions while we were going But uh, now we're going to go into some q&a. So if you guys have any questions You guys want to tweet at us We can answer your questions from uh from twitter or you guys can post it in the chat either one And by the way guys real quick if you haven't already Please please please Go follow crendor tips out baby and stay safe tv here on twitch They're youtube's or twitter's everything's up on the screen. So if you guys could please uh, go do that and Also do that for myself if you haven't already I would really really appreciate that I would really really appreciate that You don't have to follow me if you don't want to uh Yeah, just just send him a email telling him that you hate crendor Yeah, dude, I swear to god doing this for so long You just build up thick skin some people I still know that have like done this forever And they still are like, you know fathered by a whole bunch of stuff But like I remember one time It was just like a month ago.  And he just keeps saying it people in chat are like, dude, can you just stop?   You're gonna that's just part of doing this is your job or hobby or everything Is you get people that like you get people don't like you and you move on Yeah, I think this is a good question just because like I see this all the time not really A question that that maybe needs to be addressed Gentry was asking how do you feel about add-ons allowed in vanilla? I I never remember playing add-on or wow without add-ons Yeah, I like I remember like from the beginning I had like ct mod and I had all this one a Titan panel. Yeah I remember I used that yeah, so like there there's been mods like from the very beginning like people were developing add-ons Like in the alpha I'm sure because I started playing a week after release and I and I had them like right away Actually it blew my mind because I played Dark Age of Camelot before I played. Wow I played Dark Age of Camelot and there was nothing like that in deok So like I was just like wait, there's like mods like you can do like we're sevens like well They're not like real mods. They're add-ons, you know, so like I still call them mods all the time, but like um, I don't know I think uh, I think that's something that's kind of like a big misconception That a lot of people say like there wasn't add-ons in vanilla or like maybe there shouldn't be add-ons in vanilla I should just keep it the way it was like and there's a lot of really really useful mods that um I don't know. I need my damage meters like I'm just like what's up like that? So I'm like, oh, I'm doing this much damage. I'm doing that much So imagine imagine trying to play without ktm or some sort of threat. Oh my goodness. That's a good brutal Yeah, no threat meter would be really bad I definitely don't think uh, I mean at least I don't think the question is You know whether or not there should be add-ons It's should there be any kind of oversight with certain add-ons of certain add-ons kind of cross the line and kind of Detract from the spirit of vanilla And I think it's it just goes back to something Blizzard already does I mean they already monitor add-ons if certain add-ons break the game they they break the add-ons So I think that's just kind of how it should be basically. Yeah Uh, this is just uh, this is a nice one for men loss. Uh, what are your guys favorite zones? Just a nice nice good boy question Um Are we talking just in general or like classic? Uh, classic. Let's go classic. I'm gonna add that inform I'd probably say either winter spring I've always loved winter spring, but I always like snow and just like the chill kind of quiet environment I love how it's kind of purplish too. It's almost like that in real life when it snows gets kind of purpley Yeah, this guy And then uh, I've always loved arathi highlands, which is kind of a weird zone so like but I don't know I've just I like the open plains like the rolling plains of the arathi highland. Well, I guess it's not it's highlands, but you know Yeah, like the green hills.  I love the aesthetic of the arathi highlands What about you guys? I feel the same way like those two zones.  I really like tenaris I don't know something about it. Just like the vast desert and stuff Reminds me of the homeland. I was gonna say it's coming. I knew it. I was like it's coming from somewhere Duskwood has the best quest though I think duskwood, you know, just the quest legend of stall von Bride of the embalmer the morla deem quest morben fell In general like the duskwood quest around another level, but I like tenaris a lot. So many good zones Yeah, dusk duskwood. I think is duskwood and winter spring. It's it's funny like I don't know. I think uh I mean we all we all kind of like overlapped quite a bit, but those are good zones I really really like duskwood and and winter spring is you know, the snow and stuff is really cool And so I'm from Texas. So we don't get a lot of snow Even snow in a video game is exciting for me I would even say uh, I really loved old ashara This is like an autumn esk zone and it wasn't you know goblin destroyed or anything.  That's like like I said earlier Um, or even uh hinterlands. I like the hinterlands a lot as well. I like it a lot too. Yeah You know, it's funny. I think If I remember correctly I don't think that I had actually explored Like in vanilla wow, I don't think I'd actually like fully explored ashara because I did not have a dowse I remember I didn't I didn't have the the Um the dowse for mc in in retail vanilla And I'm pretty sure I I didn't I didn't have anything more than just the ashara flight path like for the longest time And like on my retail wow character Like I didn't go and like explore all that stuff until uh, I came back and did it again like on my old youtube streams Which is kind of crazy But um ashara wasn't Like there wasn't much there. Yeah, it's just kind of a random zone. It's like until they cataclysmed it Really, it really wasn't much in ashara. The most notable thing here is probably uh the dragon azure goes, right? And I never did Yeah Now I think they said uh like ashara. I think that's one of the reasons why it was so Overhauled and cataclysm. It was just never finished like they never finished it until kata basically but yeah, like said azure goes and And uh, yeah, the douses I guess Mm-hmm a feralist is another good one too. I always liked feralists. I like green if you couldn't tell Yeah green snow Yeah Honestly elwin the elwin is not like it's kind of a nice answer. Yeah, it's really nice. It's with the music too It's next level. Yeah, like elwin a lot. Um, let's go to twitter. Let's see if we got any twitter questions Uh Actually, my phone is frozen And okay, it's it's fine. We can get to that later. My phone's like freezing up but um Let's see. This is from domco Uh, do you guys think that they should fix certain bugs optimize the game in ways that might change gameplay? For example, improving pet scripts so that pet behavior is more reliable in combat Uh, which would in turn make pets more effective. What about corrupted blood if they progress to it? So it's kind of like two questions. Um On the first on the first thing I think there's going to be some natural like Backend under the hood type of stuff that's going to get cleaned up Um, I don't think they should go out of their way to to do stuff like that because what's going to end up happening Is there's going to be like indirect buffs like you said like maybe making pets more effective um I think that some stuff is just going to happen Like as far as like so if you've played on like a private server Especially if you're from na You'll notice that like one the client is is not very responsive compared to retail. Wow And the second thing you'll notice is that you have way more latency than you're probably used to playing most other games Uh, because they're you're you're playing on a server that's overseas Um stuff like that. I think is naturally going to get fixed. I don't think they should go out of their way to uh To like make any changes like fixing any like, you know like bugs like you said, um Unless it's what you think about go ahead. The first thing that comes to my mind is the um, Alley jump And the worcest on gold's jump where you can essentially just like the wall jumps the wall jumps. Yeah, the wall jumps I don't remember. I would want to see those fixed I if I remember right you could get in trouble for that because what would happen is like Well, basically people would like wall jump, uh, you could you could go and not have to take the ramp or the Uh, or the tunnel to cap a flag So people would get the flag and then they would jump on the side like through the graveyard and then get up there Um, there's like there's a bunch of jumps actually in war song Like that was one another thing people would do is like They would find a way to get on top of one of the huts like the berserker hut or the resto hut they would get on the the resto hut and uh, just like hang out and they could just run around and they could just line a site the whole time and uh I mean nobody could get up there and this wasn't at a time where you had like death grip or anything like that So you couldn't pull them down. Um But yeah, I don't remember. I remember like people could uh I I remember people getting in trouble for stuff like that So I don't I don't know like that just might be like private server me worry. I don't know either way Like it should just be how it was On a lesser extent there's like the uh, the old wall walking Or you could get up to like under order mar like you'd go on top of order mar Then you'd get under order mar. I think you do that with iron forge too Like you get all the way up on iron forge before there was flying and they could uh, it was the uh, what's it called? The airfield. Yeah, you get up to the airfield. Yeah, and I think all the way at the top There was like a skeleton of like a dwarf or something A little flag Yeah No, I see I love all that stuff Honestly, like I love all the wall joming and stuff like that But I think like in battlegrounds. I don't remember I do I just for some reason I remember people getting in trouble for it But um, what do you think about? Sorry go ahead. I just wanted to say uh regarding the wall jumping. I actually uh, I'm kind of okay with in fact I think it's just kind of like another skill you can master in bg's like the war song jumps Like it's just like another layer of complexity that you know Something you have to take into account when you're chasing like an fc or something like that Just to be aware of those jumps are like, you know, if you know those jumps It kind of gives you an edge over people who don't and I kind of like that separation between tiers of players But but I I do want to go back to the void walk or the pet question because I think that's actually really big Um, so yeah, like there were just there might be a lot of things that are just that change not intentionally But as a consequence of downgrading the game from the current client And that that was a great example for whoever asked who's the guy who asked the question That was domko. Yeah, like that was that was a great question from domko like Pet pathing stuff like that so many things dude so many things Are probably going to change unintentionally and I think it's really um, hopefully that's the job of the beta Is for players like, you know, everybody here and whoever gets access to Kind of dissect those changes to discover those changes And if they do have a severe impact on the game to bring it to blizzards attention just be like, yo man Like this this is game breaking or this just changes how the game felt back in the day, but I expect a lot of that stuff Yeah, with pet pathing it could just be how it was Back in vanilla and it would seem like a change if you've been playing on private servers But you know private servers have never really Perfectly nailed pet pathing so it would feel different But it would actually be correct because you've been playing the wrong way for so long Yeah, well, I don't want to get too much into this but like there's all kinds of stuff like that goes into Like you're talking about like vmaps pathing stuff like that in general that private servers have like Historically been pretty pretty bad at Um, yeah, like there's a few that are better than others, right? Uh, at the end of the day like no no private server is going to be perfect. You know, we've been saying that forever, but um There's there's definitely certain things that you'll see on some private servers that you won't see on other private servers And it's because like nothing is really accurate and you don't really know how to do a lot of the stuff and Uh, people will try and do like finicky things and they might do something here And then they'll claim that like, oh, well, this isn't blizz like Even though like assuming blizzard says like, okay, a hundred percent of changes whatever And they didn't change something then I think that'll be interesting Right saying people complain about something being changed whenever they're they're talking about their private server experience Because I know I think I'm going to run into something like that where I'm going to be like, wait I thought it was like this and then I I ended up being wrong because like I've been um Like basically I like my my my brain gets freaking confused because of what I've seen more recently, you know Um, yeah Saying a part of that question was uh, what about corrupted blood if they progress to it? I've talked about this before actually like Stuff like that that's that's an oversight and design that was hot fixed Yeah, like very similar to the uh, very similar to the reckoning bug And uh, which was it wasn't even a bug. It was you could stack it unlimited Like it was limitless, right? How much you could stack in what would happen Or what didn't happen was there was a paladin who just Had I think a feral druid just sit there and crit him like a thousand times or something some insane amount of times And kassak had spawned the world boss and he basically just ran up to him I think he bubbled ran up to him and one shot him so like Yeah, like they were like, okay We did not think anybody was going to do that So we're going to have to change this to cap it out at four stacks. So like the original wreck bomb Um Yeah, it was it was it was a big time but like now like a wreck bomb is four four stacks of white hits plus the one Um, see like that's an oversight and design. I think the corrupted blood is is very similar Like that's not something that they thought like, you know, people would transfer it to their pets Dismiss their pets and bring it back and then the pet just spreads the aids to everybody like Yeah, it's not good I I would I would categorize like the graveyard or not the good or the battleground jumps is an oversight Like you have to ask yourself was this intended and I would say probably not, right? Yeah, it probably wasn't intended. Um, yeah But I don't know. I don't know if people got in trouble with it for that or not back in the day I do remember people getting in trouble, but I don't know if I'm making that up or not So I don't know. We'll see whatever one of that one hits. We'll see What about this? Do you think do you think mind-controlling people out of like worson gulch should be Or i've seen it. I've seen it done in arathi basin as well. It should be punishable Uh No I think I haven't done it to a few people I hate mind control so much. Like I think it's like it should never have been in the game Like that's how much I hate it, but I don't think you should get in trouble for it. Um That's a good one. That's a real good one, but yeah, I don't I don't think you should get in trouble for it or whatever like Just don't get mind controlled next to the portal Well, the thing is like if you're if you're resin in their graveyard camping you you don't really have much option I would hope they mind control me out at that point. It's like Well, the thing is you get you get deserter if it happens you get a what is it 15 minutes or 30 minutes deserter Like that's the ranking. That's really bad. Yeah, that's really bad. Yeah Yeah, well, here's here's the thing here's the here's the fix to that You just got to cancel the res and you just got to sit there and and just yeah Yeah, you got to keep canceling the res until until the game's over because the game's gonna end soon If they're camping the graveyard like that in an arathi basin Yeah, at least arathi basin is a really bad one. You're right like war song is a little bit easier to avoid But arathi basin is really really bad Uh, just because like it's right the the graveyard is right next to the instance portal Yeah Regarding the the corrupted blood thing I feel like bringing stuff back like that as cool as it might seem could potentially tarnish the legacy of that event You know Part of what made that so like spectacular was Like all the cultural stuff surrounding it like you know that at uh university doing like the study on it and stuff like that And just it being accidental If you bring it back when people know how to abuse it and they know what's coming It's not as exciting and it just it could potentially tarnish the legacy of the original incident and I feel like Look, that was amazing. It was cool. It's like this highlight in wow's history But bringing it back would just be like me me for like 10 minutes and then everyone would get bored of it because Oh, no, I'm dying over and over again. I know it's coming. It's not interesting anymore. There's no mystery beyond it behind it so it's kind of like Just some things just keep them in the past. They're awesome memories. They're cool things about the game Bringing them back as a gimmick kind of I feel like just takes away from that Yeah, would you would you guys want to see one talisman a binding shard drop? Like one worldwide or something I I do I really do. It would be kind of cool. It's funny because that totally goes against what tips just said It would be cool because something like that is such an isolated thing like one person gets into the entire world It's a pretty inconsequential neck piece like I do think it does tarnish the original one too But uh, that's kind of more of like an easter egg thing Like kind of then like this big event and you know recreating an event that was Based on like mystery and oh my god WTF and stuff like that when that shock value is just no longer going to be there. So Yeah, I mean I It is what it is. Yeah, and I mean it's it so the necklace is like It's really really good.  So it's an insanely good pvp neck Because end game those are the things that are like I mean shadow is pretty good too end game But like you have like pom pyromages with like full max gear like they're just going to one shot everybody You have nature for like ellie shamans that are just going to one shot people Like it's it's an insanely good neck and I mean it would make somebody pretty strong But like there's one in the world like you want to talk about a legendary item Like that's that's a legendary, you know Yeah Yeah, I mean I like I think I don't know I I would totally I would totally be four one player getting it Um, you know actually well, I was just gonna say the guy who got it Uh I want to check his armory. I checked his armory like a few years ago and he still was just wearing it He was just wearing it like logged off or something and he was in I don't know if anybody remembers the the add-on nerf dui Knocked in from nerfed. There it is. There it is. Mr. Alex danger got it But but uh, I think it was that like the guild made a ui called nerfed ui. He was from that guild. I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure that's what it was um But yeah One thing that blizzard does really well. I feel like they're very good with easter eggs Like one of the best companies I've seen with easter eggs And they even do this in in retail like for example, I think the unstoppable force in vanilla There was something called the stoppable The gray item the gray item. Yeah, so maybe something like that We're like they have like a gray or like a white version of talisman a binding shard, but they call it something slightly different Yeah, just kind of like a thing like that just a callback, but yeah talisman of the binding shard, yeah talisman of the binding pebble, I don't know but uh Yeah, um, yeah, it's it's it's a good it's a good neck. It's a real good neck Uh, do you have any questions here? Um, we we do We'll take a few more. I'll take a few more questions. I don't I don't know where it came from but somebody was asking about Somebody was asking about the possibility and I feel like we talk about this a lot like if not every podcast It's it's you it's pretty often, but we'll go ahead and talk about it. Anyway Um, just because it is it is something that people ask every single time Talking about like progression post next post next progression bc Uh, what do we expect to see? Uh, it comes up pretty much every single every single time. So, um I think a lot of people For me burning crusade was actually my favorite expansion or favorite period of time I I when I'm saying favorite expansion like I talk about vanilla like that too But my favorite period of time in the game was actually burning crusade Just like a hair like I just I just liked it just a little bit more than vanilla and um I think that uh I I think that's something that we could see I think that's if they make a lot of money if they do if it does really well if wow classic Vanilla does really well. I think wow classic burning crusade Is definitely something that is going to be on the table um As far as like post-nax progressive content goes kind of in the same vein as what old school RuneScape did I think that might be on the table too Um, I don't think blizzard's gonna let their game die I think if they're gonna make burning crusade servers the burning crusade servers have to be done in a way where uh You server transfer to them you can keep your level 60 characters and you can maybe not transfer but a copy right so you can keep your original You can copy to there you can copy to servers that just stay at 1.12 and then maybe the original server progresses to uh 1.13 and on because there's a lot that could do with that and I don't think blizzard's gonna let their game die I think if they come up with the idea of something that works um You know to incorporate hygel and kerosene caverns of time uh old them All all these things that are in the game in vanilla inside of hygel there's Presumably it's death wings lair and hygel is another like a nixie is lair type thing another just just a dragon raid I think that that's something that would be really really really cool But uh, I don't know I don't know. I don't know if that's something they're gonna do or not But I think it might be on the table. I think burning crusade is is very very likely If classic does well, I think they can go up to wrath Honestly, I think that's kind of like the cutoff point like kill the lich king and then I think once they hit cataclysm They'd be like, all right. We don't have to make servers for this Who's the guy who got the neck piece is noctin no k ty n from nerfed Yeah Speaking of classic by doing well Do you guys are you guys going to be paying for accounts like you have a major account in the alt account for whatever reason? I think I am. Yeah, I think I'll I'll be paying for two accounts. Yeah, I might have to cancel my camera lot It's been a while Mine will just depend on how Much fun and like, you know, how committed I am to at that point It's like I don't remember, you know hardly anything from like playing it and leveling and doing all that So like if I have fun and I level up to 60 because I want to play a rogue Uh, and I want to gank people and strangle thorn, but I feel like most people do Uh, as well. So it's going to end up just being a bunch of rogues fighting each other Uh, but I want to do that and then if I have fun, I'll be like, hey, I'll make another character or something like that but for now I want to I want to just level up and then see what happens from there Yeah, yeah, yeah, so just to kind of like expand on what stay safe was saying so the reason why stay safe asked that is because In vanilla wow having multiple characters like let's say a summoning alt Or a mage to be like your your portal guy and water bot Stuff like that's really really valuable. Like I think that I'm probably going to level a mage Uh, I don't know if I'll have a summoning alt. I well, you only have to get the 20 So I might have a summoning alt too, but yeah, it's not It's it's very common actually at least on private servers where things are free, right? and What people would do is they would go like they might make a mage get them to 60 They might make a level 20 summoning alt and they might make multiple level 20 summoning alts And have them parked at different parts of uh different parts of the world, right? You might have one in feralis for a song flower. You might have one on the zg island. You might have one outside dire mall You might have one wherever right even black rock mountain you might have a guy and um I don't think it would be a bad idea for somebody who's playing super hard core To to pay for two accounts and to do something like that. Well people would like Essentially like as a mage You could be a portal profession because you could make so much money just making portals for people. Yeah, exactly Dude, I remember it So You you talked you talked about this earlier about like seeing like the same people in iron forge doing the same thing What I would do is uh There's this guy. There's this guy. He was a guild leader. He's a no mage guild leader um His name was manlet and I would always run up to manlet and I would just kneel in front of him and I'd be like Oh, it's the mighty gnome king and I would just like rp with him and uh And he would just give me he would just give me a full stack of water just every time But like he would just sit there like mages will just sit there on uh on iron forge and Like on the bridge and iron forge and just sell portals sell water or whatever And I would just like rp with them and I would I would seduce him into giving me free water. Yeah So no, it was it was it was good like stuff like that's cool, you know yeah Let's just uh It adds to the whole like feel of a community in the game like you're like, oh, yeah, there's the portal guy You know, it's it's almost like your town your town You're like, uh the bread lady and the even though there is an actual bread lady in iron forge, but like, you know Yeah, there's old man johnson making his portals again. I want another one I have a very clear memory of there was an enchanter uh back in manila wow Who would sit at that cart right outside the iron forge bay and he had he said like It was whatever his name is enchanting emporium whatever knew it sells a chance off the car Like that was that was his enchanting store was a cart It's the rp dude the rp cells. It's good. Um Um I lost it. Oh, there it is human plus human plus is asking Uh, will ferals have mangal and will shamans have storm strike both were implemented later in classic uh I believe that Those were like the equivalent of crusader strike for paladins in the 2.0 patch Am I wrong? No, no, no those were they were implemented They weren't available at launch, but they became available if they were in because because I don't know I don't know the ferral and enhance shaman talent trees Um, but if those are what he's yeah, yeah, if they if they're after the rework then then that would be in because they're going off of 1.12 base um Exactly. Yeah, so if it's Mangle was not okay. So yeah, basically the here's here's the blanket answer for that Here's the blanket answer for that If it was in the game from 1.2.1 and earlier Or really as far as talents go if it was in the game at 1.2.1. That's what you're gonna see um 1.12 1.12. Yeah. Yeah. What do I say? 1.2. Well, 1.1. One I'm getting adult onset dyslexia. That's what's happening 1.12.1. Okay. That's that's the patch Uh, those are the talents that they're gonna go with I did say Okay, we're gonna derail if if you're there if um if the talents are there at that point That's what they're going to go with. I I do get a lot of people saying what about crusader strike that was in the game at At the end of vanilla and it's like what wasn't because Once it's 2.0 once that first digit changes. That's the next expansion Like even even if it's like the pre patch like the pre expansion patch Uh kind of like we're in now like we're in the bfa patch in retail But we're not really like sure we're not like retail or bfa hasn't launched, but we're in the bfa 8.0 patch Um, so yeah, that's that's kind of that's kind of how I feel about that But yeah Agree 100% Do you guys see anything any any questions that you guys want to want to pick out in the chat Somebody asked uh earlier crender. I think storm asked it Uh, he wanted to know will you be making machinima in a classic wow? um I mean I probably will because i'm kind of curious to just go back to the old world and walk around and stuff so I'll probably get some ideas the thing is like Uh compared to what I used to do Uh because machinima used to be my main thing back when I was doing youtube at the start and I've kind of branched out So I do like maybe like one or two machinimas here at this point um But it's partially just because uh, I had so many ideas back then I was like this is great So motivated now I've like made over a hundred and so you just kind of Just get burned out and you're like man. I've just you know, it's uh, you know I almost feel like I'm making sequels where it's like here comes You know machinima to electric boogaloo You know the fifth version And then on top of that there's so many good machinima people nowadays and then I do so much streaming. It's like a good I know i'm gonna stream classic. Wow. I know that's the big thing I'm gonna do um because it's gonna give me incentive to be able to play and Work at the same time um, so I'm uh I don't know. I'll probably I'll probably make a few still just because I think I'm gonna be motivated from playing classic Wow and having all that nostalgia You want more bore thrills the bore thrills and all the old zones man That's true. I think if anything I would probably do that just because they are Like when I make those types of videos, it's so focused on the old zones that Um, that probably fit really well Yeah Yeah, and you mentioned nostalgia again, and that was uh, we talked about this earlier in the podcast guys Um, but talking about like nostalgia versus game design and nostalgia is is a big It's a big thing for you and I think I think it's a big thing for a lot of people. Um You know and you like the game design as well But nostalgia as somebody who who played from pretty much the beginning january 2005 Like that that's going to be a big thing for you. Um, I think I think in the future I would like to have on somebody who Has a content creator who's excited for classic But did not actually get the chance to play maybe somebody who started playing in burning crusade or wrath or um Maybe even later on maybe cataclysm or something because I think that'd be a really interesting perspective and What they would expect what they wanted to and Just see uh I don't know. I just get their perspective on it. I think that'd be something that'd be really really interesting Um, yeah, because I think there's also a lot of people who can relate to that Mm-hmm This is this is a question that's a little bit more specific to to my type of content But I'll go ahead and answer it from kirish. Uh, he was asking about like playing A ret paladin in vanilla.  Wow You put in a lot more than you get out of it the input is a lot higher in the output as compared to like a fury warrior And uh, you know, whatever other class rogue You just you just don't do as much dps as like as a true like mainly dps class Um, you can do fine. You can do well enough if you're in in like a casual raiding guild or in a progression raiding guild You're gonna be fine.  Your guilt is just bad. Like I don't know what to say like You should be able to Like the content Every single raid every single boss is killable with 39 people Like let's say somebody dies at the beginning of the fight, right? You can still kill the boss So having that 40th person be a rep paladin or a moonkin or a feral druid dps Whatever, I think feral druids are very good. By the way, as off tanks too, uh, very good for your raid, but That's besides the point. My point is is that that one guy doing a little bit less dps Uh, is not going to make a big difference to me. You just got to make sure that you're being a good raider And you're doing all the right things You know showing up with your consumes your world buffs isn't that and uh, you should be just fine I think all that is true. Um, like definitely all that is true But I think like there is also there definitely is also class discrimination. There is discrimination in vanilla. Wow and uh in current year In current year, I know It will be it will be much harder for you to get a raid spot or or definitely Uh, even more so than a raid spot a premade spot if you're a rep paladin It'll be very hard for you. I think that's that's the reality.  It's like, well, no like I I earned all that stuff before I started streaming like I earned a raid spot. I got invited to the guild Whatever I got all that before I started streaming and then eventually just went from there so, yeah Kind of just a side comment too to add to that It's like if you if you really think about it five out of the seven raids in vanilla Are not like balls to the wall like insane. You know what I mean? Like molten core anixia blackling layer zg aq 20 like There I say like a lot of raiding guilds will be able to clear that content basically And that's that's not the content that requires like insane in maxing and stuff like that But it's just kind of funny how when we talk about viability We're usually talking about in terms of like aq and axe when technically like 75 percent of the content in vanilla is not aq or an axe at the end game But just something to think about I guess if you're not going into a really hardcore guild You can get away with paladins. You can get away with druids But if you want to go into aq 40 and x 40 obviously, uh, it's You know, you kind of have to make some changes there.  We were actually it's funny, dude. It's so weird that you bring this up So, uh, 1776 of your account the american number by the way, I just want to point that out. Okay, uh We were talking about this last night. So so asman and uh nick and tips and stay safe A bunch of us were actually sitting in my discord while while we're streaming. I just got in the big blizzard bear mje gave that to me that was pretty awesome and We were just talking about like Streamers in vanilla.    That's what I want to do and and not all not all the people that I've made friends with Are streamers, of course, but um A lot of them are and that's something that's going to be very interesting and we were just kind of having that discussion last night It's going to be really really, uh It's going to be really really interesting to see actually Yeah, it's going to be really interesting to see that might be a whole a whole topic for another time. I think yeah It all depends on how the population caps and do they do sharding which hopefully they don't right? Um, yeah, man, it's how many servers are they gonna have? I mean we all this stuff is still kind of you know up in the air. So hopefully as more information comes out Yeah Yeah, the queue times the queue times are like my biggest concern at this point with being on like a like a streamer server Or whatever that that it could be really really annoying. Yeah, it would be a lot of fun, but uh It could be kind of scary too like in terms of like hey guys We're uh, we're in a two hour queue Streams starting soon Yeah, like I can't imagine a scenario where blizzard overshoots the servers They're probably going to undershoot the servers and if they have like 50 servers even at 5k cap That's 250,000 people dude. There's going to be like three to five million people at least on that first day trying to log in No matter what we're going to be stuck. I mean unless you get in right away You're going to be stuck in some gnarly queues those first couple of days for sure You're the first week or first month I'd say the first week definitely and then the first month it'll probably drop a bit and then after that it'll probably balance out You know what i'm going to get i'm going to get one of those little flamingo things that does this and dips its face in the water And i'm going to put that on my spacebar Like i'm so yeah, so i'm exactly like on the simpsons and like i'm going to put it on my spacebar So just like homer did that press any key for work. I'm going to do that So my character keeps jumping and I never log off. So I never have to worry about a queue Yeah, it's right genius. Yeah Yeah Oh, yeah Classic is 99.9 percent not probably probably not gonna be free master cam for it. Yeah, no I mean, that's the true classic experience. You paid $15 a month. Yeah, yeah True and actually here's the thing. I I think there's uh They're going back to like the like if your tax values have changed in your area They're going to take the tax values from 2004. So the tax you're going to pay. Yeah, it's really weird Yeah, and uh, and europeans got it in muntflate and australians don't even have their Yeah, yeah, exactly No changes dude. No changes. No changes. Yeah, george bush is still president. Yeah, we're going back, dude Because we're on this subject I actually have a question for crendor because crendor you bought the game back in the day you know, uh All of us are vanilla boys. Um, what do you think crendor about? Having to repurchase the game at box price like if you have to buy A 60 dollar box version of classic plus a subscription. What's your impression on that? Oh, if it was a box, I'd buy the box I mean, I I'd buy the box just for the nostalgia Even though I still have the box. I would still buy another box What yeah, if they come out with classic collectors edition, I would definitely buy it Yeah, but I mean like the base game on principle like would you be okay with buying the same game twice? I guess I because I I think that's a question a lot of people have in their minds Like I already bought vanilla back in the day. Why do I have to buy it again? You know what I mean? And is classic vanilla? I mean do you consider those the same game? um I mean, I don't think you should have to buy Like the full 60 dollar price again I think it should just be the subscription because I mean essentially they've told you like, hey You've got wow. You've got all the versions a while now So, I mean it should include that even though they're remaking it and everything at least from my perspective Yeah, I I'm gonna be honest. I I could care less either way like And and let's be real like people want this game so bad and we talked about earlier their business They might just make you buy like a 20 dollar or something. I don't know what they're gonna do If they make you pay for that, I'm gonna pay for it And I think I I would be shocked if anybody didn't pay for it I would think they would do it like a collector's edition. Like you said, I think that would be really cool So even even if they put like some really old school stuff in there like Uh, like I remember the manual that I have from when I bought it Uh, it's it tells you about how the tar and don't get mounts They get the planes running ability. Yeah and so Just putting things like that in be like, hey from the original launch we had You know a thing that showed tar and not getting mounts, you know, like little easter egg tidbits and all that type of stuff Well, and here's something else too Some who just said this in the chat and this is basically like a really really good point, but like Yeah, a co-ocl said this they put work in to bring it back. So somebody's got to get paid, right? So so they have a dev team for classic, right There there's a group of developers as a team that's making while classic. So I mean somebody's got to get paid for work, right? I it wouldn't be surprising to me if they if they made people pay Uh, I don't think Now here's another thing. I don't think that there's going to be a separate subscription I think it's in it's in everybody's best interest to have them be linked subscriptions So let's say you have to pay if you're in two Like I'm not saying that this is the case but in the hypothetical sense of like, let's say there's two scenarios where there's no payment But you got to pay five dollars a month. There's no box or whatever that you have to buy and then you have to pay five dollars a month For classic in addition to retail. So it's twenty dollars a month or 15, right? Let's make it two full subscriptions Versus like you you buy the box and then it's just linked into your last subscription I mean what would be amazing and I don't know if they'll do this even though Even though they're still gonna make a ton of money off of it I think if you don't have to pay for it if you don't have to pay for it And you don't have to pay for a subscription as long as you have a wow subscription and a wow subscription has two linked Subscriptions because thirty dollars a month is a lot of money for for a lot of people Right. I don't think they're gonna do that. I really don't think they're gonna do that But it just would be really really cool if they didn't make us like pay for the box or the original purchase Um, their numbers their sub numbers are going to skyrocket It's gonna be huge. Oh, yeah, wow classic is it's like I I'm I'm not joking whenever I say this like at least whenever I think this I think that wow classic Is almost gonna be a little bit of a renaissance in gaming like people are gonna start to realize like why is classic so popular? Why is this game from 2004 so popular and people are gonna take elements of that game and uh, see that like, okay People like the old stuff, right? There's so many old games that were really really good Why do they like it so much as opposed to like these new games that people are like running through and they're like, okay I'm bored of this in a few months, you know Like, okay, like this is a really good game Like I I haven't heard of anybody talking about like god of war came out god of war four came out and everybody and their Mom was talking about it. I haven't heard a thing about it in maybe a month, you know It's been 14 years and we're still talking about vanilla. Wow Yeah, I think a bunch of morons I think for the subscription I think that it is just going to be tied into your $15 wow subscription and the main reason I think that is because from a business Uh side of things I can see them being like, all right. We'll get them to play Classic wow and then I'm sure a lot of people will be like wow This this is great. This is fun Maybe I will check out the bfa and the modern get whatever expansion we're at at that point And then they'll be like, oh, you know, I can buy them out Oh, I can and they want to hook you into the modern game from the classic. Wow, and I'm sure that's definitely a Like point they bring up when pitching this to all the high-up CEOs that are like, what's the roi? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, definitely that that player crossover is really important I think I well, I think the best option or the best way is to have them linked with the sub and then have both Games be very successful and have a ton of crossover. I think that's that's how it should go I think blizzard will do whatever maximizes the roi. They'll be testing. They'll be polling. They'll be figuring it out internally They're they're running their analytics.  They'd be like, is it making money? You know, because that's all they care about but I think uh, I think wow Classic would even benefit from that because a lot of people would play the like modern version and then when there'd be Dry spells and wow, they'd be like, hey, I'm gonna go play some uh, some vanilla wow, you know I can go do that and I think that would see spikes every so often whenever the main game would run out of content Yeah, or or vice versa like I know for me. I uh I don't plan on raiding in bfa after classic comes out But I would really really like to arena still like I just I love arenas. So I mean, that's you know, that's something I'd be interested in doing somebody Let me see if I find it somebody said that Like yeah, god of war is not an MMO But that's not that's not necessarily like what I was talking about who said that um I can't find it Um But yeah, somebody was saying well god of war is not an MMO. It's like yeah, it's not but that's not necessarily What I was talking about like people still talk about kingdom hearts and people are still waiting for kingdom hearts three to come out Right people still are waiting for half-life three to come out, you know And it's you know, I use god of war because that was a really popular recent game and uh Skyrim's another one space exactly skyrim's another one. These are games that came out years ago But people are so attached them because they were good games, you know, and that's the same way I feel about uh That's the same way I feel about Vinyl a while So yeah, really really good games have have definitely they have staying power and you don't see many games with staying power these days They just You know, they're they're a flash in the pan or whatever that saying is Yeah, yeah, exactly 12 One more time Now we've got lasers that shoot f our eyes Well, it's because those are the safe the safe bets as well They're like, I know I can make this and I know it'll sell enough to be profitable and we don't have to Have creativity At all and you know, you just pump it out every year and then always some guys like new modern warfare Yeah, I'll know like normie people out there like bro. Have you played this game?   I'm like no like there's more games in that It's fine like, you know people can play fortnight. It's fine, you know, like you like but not everybody plays games plays fortnight Yeah, so anyways guys, uh, I know uh We we got to get going and uh Yeah, crenda crenda's got to get going where we're gonna make them late. We don't want to do that He came in joined us. Yeah. Anyways anyways guys, please Please please please if you haven't already again Please go follow crenda or it tips out baby and stay safe tv. Yeah, if you could post those links, there you go Yeah, if you guys could go follow them as well Uh as myself, we would really really appreciate that we want to do these uh class cast about one every two weeks We we want to we want to do one about every two weeks or so maybe three. It just depends so, um I'm gonna be hosting stay safe if you guys can follow us on twitter as well youtube Right here on everybody's panels Thank you guys so much for joining us We'll see you guys later