Hey, this is Brett and this 2020 Ford F-250 Crew Cab Short Box Lariat FX4 is stock number 1-4265Z. I am here at Summit Automotive in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, you're new and used heavy-duty truck headquarters this 2020 Ford F-250 has a 6.7 liter power stroke diesel engine, puts out 475 horsepower, 1,050 foot-pounds of torque, and it's paired up with a 10-speed automatic transmission. This truck has been fully-safetyed and inspected by our service shop, has a fresh oil and filter change, all the fluids have been checked and topped off, and this truck is 100% ready to go, probably one of the best-looking F-250s we have on our lot right now. I'm going to go all the way around in this video, inside, underneath, start it up, take a look under the hood and give you the most accurate representation that I can of the truck as well as show you all the features on it. Oxford whites the color, I show all my videos in 4K, if you like the video consider subscribing to the YouTube channel, click the bell notifications to get updates on the videos I do each and every day as well as having access to one of the largest catalogs vehicle walk-arounds on YouTube and staying current on our vast and ever-changing inventory here at Summit Auto. This one comes with the 18-inch black painted alloy wheels and it has Nitto Ridge Grappler LT28575R18 tires. These tires are very new, I would say 80% to 90% of the tread left on those tires. The frame and underbody is in really nice shape, this is a one-owner clean title history, clean car fax out of Colorado. Front fender is in excellent condition as well, headlight lenses are nice and clear and it does have factory fog lights too. Front bumper is in excellent shape, I didn't see any major dents or dings on there. You get the gloss black grille as well as that kind of bronze finished Ford logo looks really good. The hood is in excellent shape as well, didn't see any major dents or dings on there. Passenger side front fender looks good and the passenger side front wheel no major scuffs or scrapes on there. You get the blacked out Lariat and F-250 badge there, this one does have the power running boards which I like showing that they're working and as you go down this side of this 2020 Ford F-250 just take a note of how clean that body is, how reflective and mirror like that paint is. Take these HD videos so if you're far away or even if you're close by and you just cannot make the trip down but you're still interested in purchasing the truck you can see the truck, hear the truck and have confidence in the vehicle that you're looking at before you even get here so when you do get here there's absolutely no surprises and you can make a smart and informed buying decision from wherever you're at. Now if this video helps you make that buying decision definitely let your salesmen know that you saw the video that it was helpful and that Brett sent you. Back wheels in excellent shape and the back tires have just about as much tread as the front tires. Frame and underbody looks very nice and clean what you'd expect on a truck from Colorado as all the remaining factory exhaust and the lower rockers and cab corners all look really good as well. Get the FX4 off-road suspension package, get those decals there, rear bumpers in great shape, no dents or dings on there. The truck does have the full towing package which includes the receiver hitch 4 pin and 7 pin wiring and the tailgate is in really nice condition as well. Comes with a Ford factory fold-up tonneau cover that's in pretty nice shape. Get a very nice spring and bed liner this is a Ford tough bed so it's a factory spring and bed liner, fifth wheel and goose neck prep package, side box tie downs, LED bed lights, 7 pin wiring, 4 pin wiring and the bed is in really nice shape back here. The rear bed liner goes on to the tailgate and it does have the tailgate step assist. Shuts nice and solidly and as we go down the driver's side just as clean as that passenger's side no major dents or dings on the box and for full disclosure this back wheel is just as nice as the rest no scuffs or scrapes and down the rest of the side of the truck cab and doors all look really good. No dents or dings anywhere on there it does have the power scope mirrors they power fold-in power telescope out blind spot monitoring built-in directional signals this one does have driver's side door code entry we do have the code for this truck if you ever want to figure out what your code is for your 17 to 22 super duty in the upper right hand part of screen I have a video showing you how to find that there is your latch child safety system power sliding rear window with the built-in rear defrost these back seats are heated on the outboard side no rips no tears smells very clean inside this truck you do get a collapsible storage area back here that goes down like so factory floor mats carpetings and really nice clean shape back here get those heated seat buttons to a USB and a USB-C and then a 110 volt 400 watt max plug-in as well as a 12 volt power point these seats go down like so and you do get child safety locks on the back doors inside and bottoms of the doors all look really good show you the VIN sticker here no previously Canadian owned vehicles here there's your tire and loading information sticker inside the lariat package gives you the black leather interior now this one says it's a lariat ultimate on the original window sticker that I looked up this is the first lariat ultimate though that I've seen without a sun roof or a panel roof but the seats are in fantastic condition heated and cooled both are power factory floor mats up front here power pedals power drop-down tailgate auto headlamps power tilt and telescopic steering wheel LED side lights on the mirrors power windows locks and mirrors memory driver seat woodgrain trim and these mirrors do power fold in I always like showing both sides so you know that both sides are working properly and then they do power telescope out and in out and in hop inside check out the miles radio and everything that this truck has to offer on the interior see this one has 38,524 miles on you do get that nice digital instrument cluster does digital speedometer on there as well instrument cluster is very nice and clean comes with the leather wrapped multi-function steering wheel no rips or tears in there Bluetooth and information or Bluetooth and audio controls in the right cruise controls and information center controls on the left there's your shifter for that 10-speed automatic transmission so it has the sync 8- inch radio it does have the factory navigation system there's highway 41 so you can see that is working nicely you get AM FM and Sirius XM radio and Bluetooth capabilities on this radio climate controls right here and then you have your different settings and apps as Ford pass connect Apple CarPlay Android Auto where you can project your cell phone to screen it's also where your backup camera shows up this is also where your cargo cam shows up so you can see what's going on inside the bed has lane departure warning or lane departure assist or warning and then downhill assist control hazard light stability control factory exhaust break the B&O premium sound system and down here your push button start turned out four-wheel drive factory brake controller more tactile vine and tune and climate controls they're heating cooled seat buttons and your wireless cell phone charge pad keyless entry with remote start and power drop down tailgate and then this is my magic trick you get two cups cup holders here abracadabra four cup holders also get a 12 volt powerpoint 110 volt 400 watt max plug in dual gloveboxes passenger side format and seat absolutely perfect smells very clean inside this truck I don't think it's ever been smoked in and the headliner is in great shape as well you do get six auxiliary up-fit switches power sign where window controls and map lights right there all right let's start it up take a look under the hood starts right up no check engine lights or anything like that I would personally like to thank you for checking out the video today there your LED they turned off there you go there your LED side lights and hopefully from this HD video you've been able to verify the quality condition options and of course cleanliness of this truck inside and out all the way around does have some nice lights up in the front here under the hood we have a 6.7 liter power stroke diesel engine and today's very clean runs very smooth once again this truck has been fully safety dead inspected by our service shop has a fresh oil and filter change all the fluids have been checked and topped off and this truck is 100% ready to go there is the emission sticker I would highly recommend this truck from a quality and condition standpoint I'd ship this one back to Colorado California Texas New York Florida whoever's gonna get this truck's gonna absolutely love it and to see more pictures of this truck or one of other 550 new news cars trucks SUVs minivans wranglers half tons three-quarter tons one tons you name it we got to go to the website right there's summit auto.com full pictures and descriptions of every single vehicle all at summit auto.com click to check out more HD videos go to youtube.com slash summit auto click the bell notifications get updates in the videos I do each and every day as well as having access to one of the largest catalogs of vehicle and heavy duty truck walk-arounds on YouTube 9,000 videos in county in fact in a second you will see a link to subscribe to my YouTube channel the upper left a link to all the F-250 videos I've ever done in the upright link to this vehicle on our website and lower left and a link to one of our latest YouTube videos in lower right click those check us out we're super excited to help you with this ultra clean 2020 Ford F-250 crew cab short box larry at ultimate FX4 in Oxford white clear coat thanks again for checking out the video remember to like subscribe and share on the YouTube channel I really appreciate it thanks again


Y tîm hwn yn roi ddweud o golygu яwtyn yw'r ddweud. Ddiwethaf a ddweud fathu yw'r ddweud o'r ddweud o'r ddweudio, ac rwy'n cael ddweud o bwysig. Dwi'n mynd i ddigonанаeth a ddweud o'r ddweud, i ddweud y cyffredinnig mae'r ddweud yn cael ffioedd, mae ddweud rŵr y ddwy'n cael ei fod yn gwisir.  So that's the good part of the pain system working as a detect and protect system. The problem is that sometimes this system can go wrong and it tells about problems that don't exist or it amplifies the signal an awful lot. So if we consider chronic pain conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis, irritable bowel syndrome or osteoarthritis, here there is an ongoing pain which serves no protective function and broadly speaking in the UK the adult population will experience chronic pain so pain lasting more than three months can be as high as 40% so there's a good chance that any individual during their lifetime could experience chronic pain and the problem we currently have is the therapeutics that clinicians have available to treat chronic pain are quite limited. We have drugs such as opioids so things like morphine which although they're quite good in post-operative pain relief they're addictive you quite often have to increase the dose over time they cause side effects such as constipation but it's the side effects that are really the major issue. What you want to do is use a drug that causes pain relief but doesn't cause other things so in the case of opioids there should be addiction or constipation as two examples. So because we've got this limited number of therapeutics available what we try to do is study how the pain system works what goes wrong in chronic disease and can we therefore identify new pain targets for the development of new pain killers. Now the naked mind is particularly interesting as a model organism here because something that it displays in an unusual way is what we call inflammatory pain so inflammatory pain is with you receive an injury the area becomes red and swollen and your sensitivity in that area increases and again from an evolutionary point to you that's a really good thing past the body is damaged you get increased sensitivity you'll look after it until it heals but sometimes that healing process doesn't happen properly and then you end up with this prolonged chronic pain and the naked mind shows very unusual inflammatory pain sensitivity in that it often doesn't show the same the same level of extreme pain and one thing we think is one reason for that we think is because the naked mind doesn't respond to acid as an unpleasant noxious stimulus so quite often areas of inflammation will develop a level of acidity and acid activates nerves to make you go ouch so think of being in the kitchen lemon juice or vinegar if you spill them into cut skin your generator pain signal and the naked mind doesn't respond at all to acid as an unpleasant stimulus and we think this is because the naked mind lives underground in large colonies and they nest in chambers that are very small so lots of animals breathing all together in a small chamber will cause an increase in the carbon dioxide concentration because carbon dioxide is what we exhale when we breathe carbon dioxide will mix with water to produce carbonic acid so any mucous membranes in the eyes and the nose that's where you could generate carbonic acid which will drive pain so the naked mind is in this quite safe environment but quite acidic environment and over time with revolution it seems their nervous system adapted to no longer feel acid as being unpleasant and we were able to take the naked mind demonstrated the behavioural level they didn't show any behavioural response they really didn't care you inject them with a small amount of acid they just walk off as if nothing happened we could then show at the nervous system level how the nerves reacted differently and we were then able to identify a single gene that was altered in the naked mole rat that could account this difference in acid sensitivity now interestingly there's one gene that we identified the naked mole rat had been identified by others in humans and in mice as being important in pain processing so it's really interested in the naked mole rat from a completely different angle was able to shed light from a different way and how this one gene is really important for pain processing so if you were to go to the dentist and they're going to do something nasty like doing a tooth extraction hopefully before they do that they'll administer a local anesthetic and what the anesthetic does is it just prevents electrical signals traveling in nerves so it doesn't matter what stimulation you receive at the site of where the dentist is working that signal just cannot travel along the nerve and what we see in the naked mole rat is this gene has been altered such that acid acts like a local anesthetic on this gene because this one particular gene is important for sending electrical signals and what happens is the mutation the naked marat has means that when acid acts upon it it switches it off in the same way that a local anesthetic does so therefore acid switches naked mole rat neurons off whereas it excites neurons in mice and humans so the gene in the naked marat controls their acid insensitivity but evidence from humans and from mouse workers demonstrated that this gene is particularly important in pain processing in general and it's a gene that's one of a family of many that control the electrical excitability in nerves specifically how signals travel from A to B but when you take a local anesthetic at the dentist that's a drug that acts in a non-selective way it acts on all genes in this family to switch off the function of all of them now the particular gene we're interested in pain is nav 1.7 that's the protein name and that protein is one of a family of nine but its expression within the body is limited to a certain number of parts of it and one major area is the pain system the idea is if you've developed a drug that specifically blocks the activity of nav 1.7 you'll switch off activity in the pain system but you don't have major effects on other bits of the nervous system so again going back to the local anesthetic at the dentist you want the pain relief but you don't want all the numbness and the inability to feel anything there's a difference between touch and pain so the reason people have slurred speech after they come out the dentist is because they've lost the ability to control perhaps their tongue and their cheek muscles properly and that's because local anesthetics switch off these voltage gated sodium channels in all nerves whereas this gene that encodes the protein nav 1.7 is only really present in parts of the nervous system to do with pain processing so we hope that if we can block its function you'd have a drug that causes pain relief but doesn't come associated with the side effects of blocking other versions of this protein elsewhere in the body.


All right everybody Today is a special day. I've been waiting for this for five months I'm gonna unbox today my brand new custom bite suit This pattern that I picked is the only one of its kind. I custom made it to my own Patterns and all that so I'm the only one in the world that's gonna have this exact suit now Before I unbox this I've said, you know, I have my protection videos. I have my instructional videos and I Used the Ray Allen suits and I tell people that that's what I use because of the fact That I switch out decoys of all sizes all the time, you know, people come to me all over the world to learn protection from me, so I Have to have that flexibility To be able to just stick all sorts of body types in a suit right now Okay at any moment so but Everybody's been telling me you got to get your own custom suit done have your own style and You're gonna love it So this suit is from say Nav Right now the number one suit maker in the world the best suit in the world so Five months. I've been waiting again customized to my size my dimensions and My color patterns only one in the world ever done with this design so I'm excited to unbox this thing. I haven't touched it yet. It just came in today and I'm gonna do it right now in front of you. So Let's get at it Yeah Thing is heavy I had to get a cart to bring this thing out of My post office by the way very expensive They said I have the most expensive suit ever made Alright, that is beautiful See there I'm gonna pull it out. It's just to get a little look That's a sign a second All right, so the pants are stuffed inside. All right, there's class here It's to keep in mind. I've never used one of these. I've never had a custom suit like this So figure out Things here. All right, so we'll just pull out from the bottom Legs are stuck inside We go there's the legs straps Got a strap back here that my other suits don't have Tighten this up Get your nice and tight in here to get a nice Tapered so you can move well take the bites well So to put that aside for a second beautiful Red white and blue awesome right, so The sleeves I ordered like this This pattern I wanted the American flag Added these I These colors to it exactly Okay, and then they put the red on top of there the clips your button-ups now Here on the left arm There's an extra cuff here So on top so the right side doesn't have it This is normal regular Okay the left side Has an extra see here the seams that they stitched an Extra bulky in here. There's a like a bite bar But it's protecting the left Bicep, okay, so the reason for that twofold one To protect the suit from damage and wear The other thing is it gives you extra protection on Big biters now Most of these the people that buy these types of suits are sport competitors so They don't usually put the cuffs here and all that Because they're dealing with Malawas Dutch shepherds generally those types of breeds That don't have the massive biting power, right and so when I was designing this suit I Specified that I'm gonna do those breeds too, but I do deal with rottweilers and Those bites are heavy-duty Right So Connie corse those I do a lot Roddies American Bulldogs But so specifically for the mastiff types, especially rottweilers They have that massive power and nasty bite, right? so This suit alone to be great for the Malawas and Dutch shepherds those bigger mastiff types It would hurt so I wanted as much extra on my left side as possible To take that bite better, okay Now the reason originally that I got it on the left side was because I Was planning still am on competing in PSA in In protection sport association in PSA The bites are always to the left on the left bicep So that's why I put the extra cup cuff here. Okay now For reality though, right opposite of sport stuff The right side for me because I do real protection mostly Most people are right-handed, right? So the weapon is going to be in the right hand So for reality purposes We were doing this at attacking we want those dogs to mostly target that right bicep in reality okay, so I didn't get the extra padding here the the cuff and Only because of stiffness purposes so I'm gonna do that in a second now and see what it feels like but You know the the maker of the suit was telling me that the in originally the cuff here is gonna add a little bit of Tension less flexibility in that arm until it's broken in when it's broken in I'll be just fine so I didn't want to Have my right arm that in re it real protection that I do most and that's what I do I Use this arm mostly for the bites to stop a weapon attack so I Wanted the flexibility in this arm to be able to hold a weapon and do all that now I know in the beginning when you get these suits. It's very tough, right? So I'm still gonna have a little problem probably with the flexibility But after some bites with these types of suits it'll loosen up and I'm sure it'll be fine quick But the cough it might take it's gonna take a little longer probably because of that But the great thing about this cough is That it's you can take it off so I can just pull the seams out and Just take the cuff off without ruining the suit at all So it's perfect perfectly designed there And if I ever want to put the cuff back on or I can even switch it to the right arm if I want to I Can just stick it right back on either side I want and stitch it right back on so I have that flexibility to be able to move it and do what I want with it so For now, I'm going to keep it here on the left and again the purpose of the left side was because I'm going to be competing in PSA and Everything is the left bicep left bicep left bicep. So that's why I did that, but the design of it I can already feel the difference from my Ray Allen suits or that The the tension of the material so now to give you the difference with this suit because it's custom made and my dimensions are Right on everything has to be perfect shoulders everything Gives me that leeway to be very flexible run in my other suit because it comes in medium large extra large and on beyond The pants are too long for me. They drag on the floor. It's hard to move. It's hard to run. It's hard to have flexibility You know, it's a little too bulky. Now again, great you know, especially starterer people and all that and again for You know Swapping out decoys at any moment. Fantastic. So the suit is still good to me. I still like the Ray Allen suits But this is my first custom where you have to do everything by measurement and it has to fit you perfectly now also the bites when things are tighter and It's on you like that It's supposed to absorb the bite power and not feel the pinching as Much when the suit is tighter onto your body Unlike the other suits that are coming Just, you know one version and you can feel a lot of leeway in those legs and inside that suit right, hence you feel Some pinching if you don't maneuver well in the suit So I know they'll be pinching in this one, too. It's not that they won't be so But it's supposed to being tailored to you Have much more flexibility and you can move really well Almost like it's your normal like it's normal without a suit on so Let's take a look here. All right. So let's look at these clasps. So Here, I'm gonna assume you push this in pop it out Okay, so I guess that's how you yep. So you just push that red button Pull it out There on the bottom is another one All right, so they get you really Tightened up here with this with all those clasps. So you're really tight safe. There's no holes. There's no gaps All right, we'll give it a little feel and look What this feels like first time ever putting it on? Yeah, so I can feel Yeah, very tight be tight like tight tight to the body. I can feel Little pressure compression like on my biceps From the shoulder down I could feel it very tight on the shoulders So definitely I can feel a big difference already in how snug the fit is All right, I had to have help to put the buttons in and The main reason that I did that was because I Don't know I just opened the box. So I don't know the placements of the the clips yet So with the bulkiness right now, and it's not that bad actually compared That I can reach I Can clip them if I have to so but I Don't want to break them Right, so if I start playing around right now with the new stiffness and trying to find it I'm afraid I'm gonna break one of the clips So that's why I just had my wife button me up But otherwise I know I'll be able to do that by myself But let's talk about the flexibility of this thing. I mean Really you you you have good flexibility So if I take my arm up already here I mean I have some good flex You can see pretty quick. I can change and this one has the cuff So this one's supposed to be a lot harder and I still Have some decent mobility in there where it's not completely restricted so Yeah, I can see how when they were saying a few bites on that getting that cuff to loosen up It'll be completely flexible. So Yeah, holding that arm up sticks weapons, you know having that Putting it out No problem moving those arms so Really good good flexibility, so Very tight like it tapered feels great, and I love the mobility. I really do So Really really nice. All right now the pants So You can see man. They are tight The it's very snug See here these straps are really I have an extra belt here right Strapping this up like a belt so I mean Very fit very tight. I've never felt a suit like this before And then you have here. These are very tight And your back you have a strap back here That also tightens in To make sure your hips are good keep everything nice and tight for safety flexibility But I could tell you already You can see on the bottom where my shoes are That they fit right to my shoe With the other suits it comes over my sneaker like a bell And it's usually touching the floor so you're dragging Your feet and it makes it much harder to run and move so With this right away without it being broken in of course It's it's very hard because of that still but I Can feel the flexibility already even the stiffness. I mean there's a good amount Right I can So going down So I have a lot of great flexibility already So Yeah, this is going to be very different To be moving with dogs. I love it already Giving me a lot of comfort and I know even a little breaking in I'm going to be able to move really quickly when You know catching dogs and working with them so Yeah, I love it Feels great now also with these pants I added from the knee To my ankle extra padding here and in the back so because for PSA or any bite work Nor for real and we're not having dogs bite in here so You still have padding here It's just not a place you want to do bites and bites and bites who wears in It's not going to be a comfy place to take a lot of bites But I can tell it's not bad and it won't be bad, but from here down they put extra These kind of plate Paddings So this way I have a lot of flexibility in the pants to move my legs well But from here we give the bites I'm going to have plenty of padding from the knee to the ankle to be able to take those bites and take them nicely without suffering The pain so Yeah, real nice really very snug very fit very comfy so loving it love the feel and Already again having such flexibility and they're not even broken in so Really like it. All right. Now we got the full get up Captain America style So the flexibility Right Really good. I mean It's fantastic. I mean have great mobility so Yeah, I'm loving this suit already and I haven't taken one bite, but I'll do updates on it as I take bites in it. It breaks in but Overall Much different than a suit. It's not custom very tight very tight fitting Very comfortable though and Very flexible and I can feel the difference and Again, it's not broken in so I can already feel a big difference in this So loving it so now New suit new look From here on Right in front of your eyes From today on There's a change I'll no longer be called the Miami dog whisper from here on I Am now America's dog trainer. Why? for a long time People kept telling me You should change your name. You should put like America's dog trainer since you do everybody in the country and you do more All around the country than you actually do in your own state or city so you're really America's dog trainer not Miami since you do, you know, mostly international and National so you might as well call yourself America's dog trainer and Because I do everything in dog training. There's nothing I don't do So I specialize in everything so Anybody who needs anything around the country I? Handle anything that they need or want to do so Through friends clients Trying to Urge me into changing my name So I decided then I might as well since I'm going to get a new suit Design it in the style for the new image so from here on I Won't be called Miami dog whisper anymore I'm now going to be America's dog trainer


So, we are here because I read some columns by Mr. Krovitz in the Wall Street Journal that were quite interesting on the topic of Internet Governance in general and some inside baseball about ICANN and the transfer of control in specific and we struck up a bit of a conversation and thought it might be nice to have an informal conversation right now about these topics and we thought the best way to start might be a little bit to each say how we came to these topics, what brought us into this zone and then a little bit just sort of an overview and then let the conversation evolve from there and if you're watching through YouTube you have an opportunity to enter comments into a chat box that we might even have a chance to see and as we do this we will be sorting out various tech especially audio issues as we go so please be patient with us and with that I think I'm going to try to turn it over to Gordon and Gordon feel free to introduce yourself and we'll see if we can get the various mics and such up and running. Oh, Gordon I think you have to unmute yourself, I'm sorry, you click down. I should do it. Alright, yes, we hear you now. Thank you, I was getting a lot of echo before I'm sorry. Thank you Jonathan for organizing this, I've been looking forward to it. The issue of internet governance is a great one, a fun one, one that's going to be with us for some time. I thought I would set the stage a little bit for my own interest in this topic by going back well before the internet to my own early experience with a multilateral system of governance as it relates to freedom of expression going back to the early 1980s when I was a young journalist of the Wall Street Journal and at that time to me the similar issue at that time was a UN agency called UNESCO was doing its best to create what I called a new world information order which was basically a system to use the UN to legitimize censorship and suppression of free speech obviously in the free the pre-internet era but during the Cold War and during a time when governments were very aggressive in trying to legitimize censorship a time that I think in some ways is similar to today in any case as a journalist reporting UNESCO I had a fantastic story I wrote about it in the Wall Street Journal and the day before a congressman from New York a Democrat from New York was coming to Paris to investigate some of what I had reported it was a mysterious fire at UNESCO headquarters in Paris all the files were disappeared shortly thereafter the US Britain and Singapore all left UNESCO for some time but that is why I am focused in part on this issue and in part because of the miracle of the permissionless largely unregulated internet that we have all come to know and love and the question I think before us is are there risks now to the internet that did not exist before the Obama administration's decision to make an adjustment to the governance of ICANN and IANA which we'll talk about today. Wonderful I've unmuted my microphone you may need to remute yours depending on how the sound turns out and that's a very helpful introduction to hear I guess for my part I came to this when I was a teenager I used my parents credit card to sign on to the CompuServe information service which was one of the pay by the minute or by the hour services CompuServe run by H&R Block on their mainframes when they weren't crunching tax return information and found a whole world opened up through that 300 Bod modem text only of course and after about six weeks the bills came in my parents told me I had to sign off and I sent my apologies to the CompuServe forum for TI99 computers that I was participating in and I got back and offered to be an assistant sysop or system operator in exchange for free time and the course of several years from there was a sysop and several forums a shout out to any former sysops out there today and over the course of those years I they actually kept track of the billing if I were to have been billed and I ran up over a quarter of a million dollars and that was when money still meant something in connect fees over that time and it was from there that I saw the internet really take over and at the time we thought it was going to be CompuServe versus the source versus Prodigy who would win and out of left field came the internet in part because as Gordon was describing it had the sort of permission less over the course of those years I actually wasn't billing by the minute and that worked out wonderfully for the world and for the internet not so well for CompuServe I became fascinated by internet governance and in particular in ICANN domain names and that sort of thing as I was teaching on these issues I taught a class at Harvard one of the first classes I ever taught in 1997 in which one David Clark who is teaches at MIT came over as a guest and described the way that the domain name system is managed and it was so jaw-dropping how informal it seemed I couldn't believe it worked and neither could the students and it was around that time that the informal ways were being supplanted by much more formal ones and I in the Berkman Center actually had a very modest role in being around as ICANN was coming together I confess I ended up with perhaps a bit of a hangover on internet governance issues within a few years of going to meeting after meeting around the world arguing about the proper governance of what ICANN does and at some point I realized ICANN does domain names and the internet is so much more than that that actually what ICANN is doing may not bear as much on the digital future of anybody watching this podcast whether individually or as part of a company that it wasn't clear to me it mattered all that much whether Google chooses to list you on a search for bicycles if you're a bicycle shop it's far more important to you than whether you get bike shop dot bicycles or not or under what circumstances you might pay to renew the domain name so that was sort of the place I came from and it's it's just very interesting I should pass it back to you Gordon but I think we agree on a lot including on the kind of world we want to see online and maybe just happen to have a real different view on how much ICANN matters and therefore how much this backstop by which the US is perceived to ultimately bear responsibility for ICANN how much that backstop matters back over to you thank you Jonathan and I am grateful as a user of the internet for all the ICANN meetings you endure from everybody I've known who has gone to them they do seem a wee bit tedious I'll never get those hours back the analogy that I might try out on you and see what you think about this is if you're an admiral in the US Navy and you're watching US naval ships protect the open ocean for free trade to keep those networks open the networks of trade open during peacetime it's also quite boring and nothing happens and that's good and the analogy that I can I think is with the role that the US has had light and benign as it has been it has been a bit like the US Navy protecting the international sea lands and the risk to that happy world is what happens at the US Navy is not protecting sea lands we're to extend the analogy the Commerce Department does not have ultimate veto authority over ICANN and maybe more importantly the root zone and the naming of the domains and the websites of the addresses and keeping that directory honest and accurate and non political so the so I completely understand the people who say role of ICANN has been kind of clerical and passive and I think that's true but what I would say to that is we have had a multi-stakeholder management of the internet where engineers and developers and network operators and the entrepreneurs who of course have built the internet have been able to operate largely freely in terms of the global internet different countries of course as we know have had a different point of view toward their domestic internet we happen to be speaking on June 4th the Chinese devote enormous amount of resources to closing off their internet people don't know in China many of the history of Tiananmen Square for example that I think is largely because the internet has been apolitical because of the US role in making sure that it has been apolitical so there are hypotheticals that you know I think are at the very least worth discussing that I think are very hard to defend against without the US having the kind of role that it currently has so the alternative to the US role to me is not that all governments get out of a role of the internet instead it's that all governments not just the US government will have some role some greater role they'll join the multi-stakeholders and there are within the rules of ICANN there are ways that governments if they want to can adjust the existing rules to give a majority of countries authority over ICANN and the root zone that I think we would all find highly troubling and what for the first time give countries like China and Russia the opportunity to affect the internet outside their own countries including for those of us in the US used to being able to go to freeukrain.org or remember Tiananmen Square dot org and those are the kinds of issues that I think that I'm concerned about it's a reason I've been writing about this issue and I don't think the Commerce Department or the management of ICANN or anybody else yet has answers to the questions of what if countries certain countries focus on using inherent powers and authority within ICANN and the naming authority to extend censorship and suppress the freedom that we've had on the internet.  Baptist churches have their websites taken off as the first line of attack and I guess I'd like to unpack a little bit more because I found myself doing this as I moved from somebody I think very much holding the kind of views you've just expressed 15 years ago to somebody not seeing this as a problem in fact seeing the most recent move of the Commerce Department getting out of this is a very useful thing to the extent that it matters at all and it is let's unspool the worst-case scenario here you've kind of hinted at it it would be that Russia or China or name your sort of regime that doesn't embrace free speech or the rule of law manages to quash the domain name of a particular website by having taken control of I can but let me I mean that that maybe is what you're suggesting I should let you fill that in a little bit more and then I'll take a crack at explaining from my point of view how plausible or not I think that is and why great so first let's establish that a majority of governments in the world if they could censor the global Internet certainly would we had yes the way they would put it is if they could make it conform to their local law the way that they get to say how cigarettes are labeled even if those are shipped from North Carolina why shouldn't they get to say how the bits are shaped that that you're right would be the argument of many governments of course including our own when it comes to the speech or behavior expressed in bits that our own government doesn't like such as gambling right so we saw a couple of years ago the meeting of the international telecommunications union of both taken 89 to 55 essentially to split the global Internet into one where the majority of those countries would be the beneficiary of a treaty that was created by the ITU at that meeting that in effect legitimized domestic Internet censorship in a way that those countries Russia China Iran many others that you well know and have written about when they looked for the legitimacy for their censorship that UN agency can bring so let's say for argument's sake that the roughly 90 countries in the world that are in favor of that sort of thing roughly 50 around the world that are not so the idea of any kind of majority vote and government control I think we both agree would be trouble so there are scenarios under which the rather ornate maybe even Byzantine rules of ICANN can be manipulated by governments focused on doing that to give first governments much more control over ICANN than they have previously had one of those would be to move from a consensus view among the subgroup within ICANN that is of governments yes I think the word you were looking for on the procedures of ICANN is Baroque they're very Baroque the procedures I'll share why it just it really doesn't concern me in the hierarchy of many many things to be concerned about about the health and openness and freedom of the internet first we should note that ICANN is as much as it it tries to express itself as an international consensus-based etc organization for very understandable purposes it is a California nonprofit it's a 501c3 governed under the laws of the state of California and nobody's talking about changing that I'm sorry to interrupt you that actually is one of the questions that came up in congressional testimony and I think the head of ICANN's answer was he has no plans to shift from California I've spoken to him about it I don't think he does have plans to shift from California but he immediately said but of course I'm not really in charge of ICANN if I try to change kind of coffee being served in the cafeteria I get a lot of pushback from the multi-stakeholder community so yeah yeah yeah absolutely so but I agree with what his testimony appears to have been that there's been no push for that but he is not a dictator it is community oriented which means that it's actually hard to get anything done such as change the coffee in the cafeteria which means a change as drastic as that would probably be quite hard to put through and to put it through would require action by the board it has a board of trustees which is decidedly not governmental there's a governmental advisory committee which was a way of trying to get the governments to have a place because they all had their designated liaisons to the Internet and decided that ICANN was kind of the best manifestation the tangible manifestation of the operating internet that they could find and those liaisons needed a place to confer and thank the kind gentleman from whatever country for that wonderful statement and that's what this advisory committee does but this is just sort of one of two points I wanted to make the first is as a matter of sort of corporate non-profit governance there are already some pretty decent things in place I'd be hard-pressed to think of what more could be in place even hypothetically that prevent any great transformation of ICANN is suddenly coming under the heel of X number of governments that want to control it but there's a second point that maybe is a little more fundamental which is let us suppose that somehow name your bad entity for these purposes government X that really want censorship basically maybe like the FIFA soccer scandal just writes a big check to the ICANN president I should just be clear this is entirely hypothetical this is not suggesting this is happening that says if you'll if you and the rest of the board will buy off the whole board to you and the board will all vote the way like buying off a ref for a soccer game what's the worst they can do and it turns out there the worst they can do through a fairly genius and quiet way of which this is all organized is next to nothing if for example I wanted to make sure that free Tibet org went away if I control ICANN the only way to do that is to threaten the registry that runs dot org that happens to be something called the public interest registry itself a separate non- profit incorporated in the United States it in turn is kind of a wholly owned subsidiary of the internet society on whose board I served and I see Kaled Kuba has put in a comment on our side screen Kaled was a fellow board member of the internet society although he now appears to be in an ITU meeting Kaled if it's a hostage situation just let us know through the chat window but you would have to threaten dot org with being entirely delisted from this file you mentioned called the root file so that when people try to visit any dot org not just free Tibet they couldn't go anywhere that is such a crude tool it would be truly beyond conception of ICANN attempting to use it and even if it did suppose it actually tried to pull the plug and take dot org out of the root zone at that point internet service providers around the world who consult the root zone voluntarily for information about where to find org names if they get back an answer that says I got nothing I forgot where all the dot orgs are they would buy just a special tweak in their own respective files keep happily consulting the public interest registry for the dot orgs it turns out and maybe this is the case in many organizations where if you run the organization you're more aware of your powerlessness than your power it's actually really hard for me to game out in the chess how even Vladimir Putin running ICANN could actually get rid of free Tibet dot org in this kind of censorship sort of way that we're talking about well as as you know there is you the word Baroque I think is quite after this as well there's a Baroque structure of who controls the registries etc I am not saying that it would be a simple matter to make a dramatic shift in the open nature of the internet but it is a conceivable matter and in exchange for what so you know Bill Clinton and during his administration the concept of a multi-stakeholder internet was invented has come out against the transfer citing the enthusiasm of other governments to find ways to undermine the open internet what benefit is there to the internet or to free speech or to some of the American values that have been spread through the internet to countries that don't have them to making this change if it's not broke I don't know why we're trying to fix it yes and in that sense I I have no inside knowledge but I suspect that the sleepy hallways of the Department of Commerce were not expecting their announcement of this planned quote transfer of control or really a lapsing of a cooperative agreement with ICANN to have any of the pushback the reaction that it has had I guess I should know that I remember back in 1998 when all of this was getting started there was a real sensitivity to wait a minute is this just US imperialism is the US still going to be somehow trying to run the internet through ICANN and the proper appropriate answer especially to get it off the ground given that there was potential chaos looming in the Department of Commerce had stepped in with almost zero legal authority in particular to do it had it was trying to kind of heard all the cats along and the answer was look we'll have a we're going to be in the mix to make sure this thing gets up and running and that there's confidence in it it's basically a confidence-building measure and then fly little bird fly you will be a community stakeholder driven organization and I the judgment was okay it's it's ready to fly is in fact not a whole lot the Commerce Department could really do if it were mortified at the way ICANN were conducting its affairs in part because it had very little original authority under any statute done to where does the Department of Commerce get the authority to have regulated at all and the answer I think is nowhere the original framework for creating ICANN was called the white paper it was published in the federal register as a statement of policy it was not even it was not a regulatory thing at all so it was really just to say this is now what's the actual plus all optics it's all optics and in some ways I think you and I are just having a different take on what are the optics that for commerce to announce with a press release that okay you know bird has grown up it's left the nest have fun ICANN I think you were reading that as a signal to the adversaries of a free and open internet that it's open season let the you know hunting begin of this vulnerable ICANN and to me I think it indicates something quite different which is a vote of confidence in ICANN so that some of the alternative schemes of governance that have been tried at times that would bear some of the characteristics that worry you including much more heavy-handed government involvement this is a way of saying to those in the middle trying to figure out which path to take who don't want any government including the US and maybe these days especially the US to have a thumb on the scale to be able to more comfortably support ICANN I think your history of the creation of ICANN and the point of view in 1998 is entirely accurate I think there was sort of an intent over time to find some new governance for it what I would say however is that a lot has changed in the world since 1998 the enormous resources of countries like China and Russia the understanding that authoritarian regimes have of the potential threat to their legitimacy of various parts of the internet social media and others has grown exponentially since then and we have through the ITU and through ICANN itself recently some evidence of the enthusiasm that some of those authoritarian governments have to look for ways to mock up the open internet that we both you know would like to protect so I think you are right that I am quite concerned that when one looks at the importance of closing the internet censoring the internet undermining the open internet to a large number of authoritarian governments around the world including some with very sophisticated technical tools and diplomatic and financial and not can use the word bribery tools but bribery has been known to happen elsewhere that over time those pressures can only grow and can only become more of a danger and I see very little to no benefit to a change in the current system when Congress pushed back after the announcement by the Commerce Department Congress asked for a couple things and asked for a copy of the legal opinion the Commerce Department says that it is done it says that the Commerce Department can give up the authority over ICANN without congressional action for which you realize by the way my view on that is it never had any authority to give up to begin with but anyway go ahead but you know I think just as the US government can't transfer land in the West to somebody without congressional action you know the Constitution is pretty clear that things having to do with commerce have to go through Congress and I think the last time this came up in 2000 by the Commerce Department said it would have to be heavily lawyer to determine and there are as any you know this legislation that's passed the House that says no transfer of ICANN without congressional approval hasn't passed both houses but it's a real issue reflecting concern about the downside potential downside of this shift and I would say more broadly you know less legally more politically if there are so few risks and if there is some benefit to doing this let's have an open debate about it let Congress vote on it that's the way our politics are supposed to work rather than the executive branch unilaterally making a decision that obviously has the potential to affect enormous amount of commerce as we all know the internet represents so if we have an open debate about it if the people who are running ICANN can come up with bulletproof ways to protect the open internet then that will be a different scenario but right now the Commerce Department when it made its announcement tasked ICANN with coming up with some way to keep these bad scenarios from happening the leadership of ICANN is very focused on this I know you're a former trustee I think of the internet society the internet society lists serve on ICANN governance is it reads a little bit like no computer scientists trying to become political theorists it's a little bit like watching political theorists try to try to write code it's very complicated and difficult and I don't know of any institution in the history of the world that has managed to be a multi-stakeholder organization and run the way the internet is run without becoming a multilateral that is government led operational organization that's that I think is my concern which I think is shared widely but I do agree with you that I think you know one of our major points of difference is that I see very little to no benefit of the US giving up this control it's not as if there'll be no government control that might be more appealing it's that there's going to be controlled by a lot of governments many of which have values quite different from ours yes I think it's really a question of how much of this is control and ownership and when we use metaphors of as if giving up federal parkland or something for another purpose that's actual territory that you either own or you kind of don't and when you think of control you think of one of the more florid metaphors was this is like Jimmy Carter giving back the Panama Canal which not to start another conversation that doesn't appear to have gone horribly awry as best I can tell but control over the canal would mean well who gets to say what ships shall pass through it and in this case I don't think we're talking about ownership like of a piece of land you and I both celebrate the unowned nature of the internet and I don't think we're talking about control of the sort that is a blockage that could in turn express censorship the closest we see from at an icon is its implementation of a only in some domains like dot-com and org a global trademark dispute resolution policy if some entity has McDonald's dot-com and it's not McDonald's the hamburger people they can do a summary proceeding and there are all sorts of issues maybe with that but I've seen no movement to extend beyond the dispute over the domain name to a dispute over that to which the domain name points and more and more domain names don't matter nearly as much again as something like the search engine and of course quite properly none of us is talking about how to govern search engines in some common multi-stakeholder way we all get to debate over what the top hit for governance should be and it's not between some multi-stakeholder group or governments that will decide in that case it's one or two private companies and the market share for Google in Europe as we know from the right to forget debate something like 93% and that is that's a canal not run by Panama but run by Google that has far more impact on the world as far as shaping the information people experience then again these sort of very to me implausible situations in which domain names could be affected so I think what sounds maybe to you like naivete on my part oh I think that if the US removes its exceptional role on paper with ICANN it's nuts to think that that vacuum won't be filled by other states I guess by my lights it's not even a vacuum there's not a lot of power being expressed there and the optics of it what otherwise looks like a surrender or a retreat in fact are quite positive and healthy optics to keep the multi-stakeholder model that's what we've got right now up and running and rolling rather than imagining somehow that the governments are going to be able under law or fact come in and do something so I see one person in our comments tree I'm just looking at the most recent one asked what does the summary proceeding process for trademark issues involved as ICANN possess a way to enforce the ruling afterwards or does it delegate to other organizations the quick answer to that and you can look this up Molly it's the uniform dispute resolution process the UDRP and the enforcement happens really at the registry level the entity that runs org or calm will have agreed with ICANN that it will respect the principles of this procedure and then somebody who doesn't like the way a domain name is assigned has to pay some money to fund the proceeding they can do it all over sort of email it doesn't have to show up anywhere and whoever has the domain name assigned who is being challenged has to come back with something or if they fail to that might not look so good and there are a number of dispute resolution providers oddly enough they get to be selected by the plaintiff ish character you can see I'm not that fond of the UDRP in some ways and then if the UDRP results in a win for the challenger the registry can just reassign the name and that takes care of that so it's one of the few areas of internet governance where the judgments can be self enforcing because the dispute is solely over a piece of virtual property rather than say somebody stole my money I want it back now you got to go find the money somewhere it's not in the realm of the digital Gordon I should throw it back over to you you just gave a fantastic answer to you know a fairly detailed question so let me just come back to what is otherwise a narrow question of whether the contract relating to ICANN and the naming authority is property and control and therefore requires congressional action this is not debated by many people you could you go to the rest of YouTube and you probably will not see two people debating this issue no you'll see two cats debating it you very well may the the you are right the federal land analogy is a real property analogy the better analogy is a contract to run traffic control at a government airport to run a souvenir stand at a national park and those have to be delegated authorities from Congress to the executive branch or an agency in order for the executive branch to be able to do that and there's been no such delegated authority I'd say close but not quite in my view and the way to understand my thinking on it is I remember back in 1997 there had been the back in the real sands of time the National Science Foundation wrote checks to smart engineers to experiment with networking and the experiment turned out to be the internet and some would say that jury is still out the experiment is running and the checks were to fund their research and to help the hard costs that kind of thing and as best I can tell the total US government investment through these means in developing the internet is less than yahoo got in its initial IPO back in the late 90s I mean it's kind of very good investment for what we got on a return as a kind of public around the world on this and one of the agreements again run through the National Science Foundation was to fund just the ministerial recording of who had what name in particular in something like dot com back in the day before this happened you didn't have to pay to register dot com you could have as many as you wanted and they were free it was just assumed that nobody would want a whole bunch of them because isn't one enough for you and this is how back in the day you could have journalist Joshua quittner register McDonald's dot com before it even occurred to the multinational hamburger company that they might want it I mean it was a weird time okay so you end up with the company called network solutions that had won the bid to do this ministerial registration paid for by the government they had a genius entrepreneurial idea which was instead of the government really paying us to do it why don't we collect the fees to maintain this database from the users registering the names and the government doesn't have to pay us anything the government said okay great we won't pay you any more money and there was a cooperative agreement for the network solutions to charge $70 for a two-year rental of a name great idea to have it be rented not owned and after that thirty five dollars a year to keep renting this name as if it were something that like they had to hose down every so often or dust off or who knows what I mean most of the money that went to network solutions was to fund the infrastructure to know when to send you the bill and to chase you if you didn't pay it so it was kind of one of these circular things and this was a five-year agreement started in 1992 so the question was as we near the end of 1997 what if the agreement expires and we haven't figured out yet what's going to be the new system and the real wedge that the Commerce Department had to even get into this was on this agreement with network solutions expiring and I was part of those being I wonder what will happen this could be a crisis the Internet could shut down the day after the contract expires but then I realized you know what it is a little bit like municipal garbage collection where step one is your taxes pay for the city garbage truck to come along every week then step two like in some more rural areas there's no city garbage collection your taxes don't pay for that sorry instead you pay directly to the garbage collection firm and in fact network solution said you know what if the contract expires no biggie we'll just keep doing what we're doing gratis which is to say charging people thirty five dollars a year for their names and nothing would have changed in fact if the contract had expired so this gets back to your observation about the nature of the contract to me the thing that I can is doing which is to say entering into arrangements with registries by which the root file will point to those registries to say where dot org answers can be found to questions like where is isaac dot org what they're doing was not something the U.S. government itself ever did is not something that if I were to start doing it tomorrow myself anybody would prevent me from doing and that's why to me it's nothing that requires any sort of real scrutiny by the government to figure out who's allowed to do it the answer is anyone's allowed to do it it just so happens that I can does it and everybody pays attention to them because of the fidelity with which it's been doing its job and the fact that if you listen to I can's answers to the question of where is dot org you'll find the dot org sites you're looking for I predict before we get to the end of this issue whenever that is when the card I can't contract expires in 2015 or as the Commerce Department more recently has said it could be kept going for another four years an hour 2019 and a new president and maybe a different point of view will have to say I do predict that this interesting legal issue will end up getting aired in some detail I the difference between the early innocent days that you I'm sure quite accurately described and today is that I can is now hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue of the contract with I can if we're not good I can is meaningful in an economic way the registries of course are become quite but if I just should say if that contract evaporated tomorrow if some some judge somehow decided that things hadn't been signed properly and in fact the contract was dead letter I can would be worth and have that ridiculously large income flow that it has it would still have it nothing would change because by that contract no meaningful thing is being given to I can and doesn't already have except legitimacy and in 2014 it does turn out as an optical matter legitimacy is now conferred by favoring no government rather than by being perceived as sheltered under the US government for reasons of course we both and everybody watching probably no I think two small points one the contract is worth a lot to I can if I can didn't have it renewed it would be economically significant which would be the legal issue before separation of powers lawyers and whatever court it would end up in I think it's a good it's a real issue and and without getting into the minutiae of Washington politics when I first began reporting on this question I asked the Commerce Department for its legal opinion saying that it had the authority unilaterally to give up the contract and the Commerce Department says they do have such a legal agreement but they haven't shared it Congress has now asked for a Congress is doing its own yes it's a whole new stream of work for lawyers that I know we're all grateful to have to have happened so of course asking the executive branch for its legal opinions no matter how modest the topic is probably right now and always a somewhat sensitive issue absolutely and under our separation of power system it should be but I think this is going to be a good issue to yes the to be resolved and all I would say about government says I think we don't have the choice of the involvement of zero governments if there were a way to have the internet operate with zero government involvement that would be to me quite different I think our choice is either the benign light defensive that is protective stewardship of the U.S. that we've had since the beginning of the Internet or the involvement of all other governments with an outcome that I think is hard to predict except in one way which is the internet will not become more open the pressures will be for it to become more close now I know we should probably wrap up so I can't help but want to end on a separate sort of provocation which is this great stewardship of the government and in particular the U.S. government that I know you're counting upon and rely upon I'm just trying to predict how much of that stewardship you'd like to see in the provision of network services and isn't it good stewardship of the government to have those net neutrality rules that's an excellent provocation Jonathan as you I think you and I are on different sides of but what some call the net neutrality argument which I call the government regulation are see now the government stewardship I'm sorry regulation is terrible absolutely down any you and I are on kind of different sides of this issue I think we probably have more in common in terms of the way we would like the internet to operate I do come back to my first point which is that in the history of the world when governments get involved in something like information and freedom of expression that tends to lead to bad outcomes the United States is of course imperfect but it's been a great steward of the internet so far and you know I come back to the very broke what's not fixed well maybe this can be to be continued and we can pick up on the net neutrality front or one of many other topics of course my meadow kind of thought is to the extent that those listening out there do have energies or curiosity about the future of the internet and wanting to study it I guess my thought and this is indeed where we I think continue to differ is the action is happening generally not anywhere near I can it's happening on issues and debates around that neutrality issues and debates around things like the right to forget which in turn is the thin edge of the wedge about control over the shape of the information we see over the more that we move away from search engines that then present us options and we pick one and more to a Siri like model where we're just being advised by a digital concierge about what we want many subtle ways that that can influence how we understand and perceive the world and nearly all of that is undeniably in private hands right now and it's the kind of thing that I think Gordon may may puzzle or be an interesting challenge for you to work through because it will end up if there is to be a change and if we have worries about it these would be interventions into private firms rather than into this sort of more in co-it internet space I see in our comments stream one of our commenters says this isn't the kind of debate I'm used to it's actually pleasant and I agree with that and I think that's a good reason to consider possibly another chapter and Gordon I just want to thank you for being game to pick this up as we had not intentionally but very different and somewhat dueling columns on this yours in the Wall Street Journal mind in the New Republic but I hope we'll have a chance to take it up on other topics I look forward to it Jonathan it's been a lot of fun thank you okay farewell to those listening and to posterity since I believe this will be archived as well


This study investigated the effects of subcutaneous muscle displacement on surface electromyography, EMG, signals during wrist flexion. It found that as the wrist joint angle increased, so did the amount of displacement of the muscles underneath the skin. This displacement correlated positively with the amplitude of the EMG signal, suggesting that it may be beneficial for identifying subtle differences in movement. This article was authored by Lizzie Pan, Kailu, and Jamin Lee.


Welcome everybody in Rome, I'm on virtual room as well. My name is Lucy Earle, I'm a principal researcher in the human settlements group at IID in London. IID is the International Institute for Environment and Development and we're a research institute. The title of this panel is actually quite long. So this is an intentionally provocative title to the panel, the idea of the world without camps and I should say we are fully aware of the political and structural incentives that surround the building of camps. But we are in the main essay group of urbanists. And we're striving to change the narrative around where displaced people are seen to belong and how refugees and IDPs are perceived. You also need to know that as a panel we all know each other quite well. We've been part of the same research team since February 2020, when we began a project together funded by UK's Global Challenges of Search Fund. So the full title of the project was quite long. It's out of camp or out of site. Realigning responses to protracted displacement in an urban world. And we have a website, which you can see at the bottom of the protracted displacement.org and article logo. We tend to call ourselves P-Dulp, protracted displacement in an urban world. So I'm going to introduce everyone as they, in terms of their papers, but you can see the institutions represented here. We have University of Dilla, University of Lithuania, University of Massenow in Kenya, the Hashemite University of Jordan, Samuel Hall, Shacklewells International in Kenya. The panel if I touch the screen, it's going to just move on. Is that right? It's all set. Oh, it's sliding. So where are we coming from with this research project? Well, we know that the majority of the world's displacer in urban areas. And we know that refugees and IDPs in the global south are likely to end up in informal settlements living alongside the urban core, either on arrival or after their assets are depleted. We know that it seems, there's not much detail on this, but the majority of general funding and attention is focused on refugees and IDPs in camps. And research has tended to follow suit, although in the past decade there has been increasing research on the urban displaced. So IID and its partners have long histories of working on urban informality, urban poverty and local governance issues and development context. So IID is project looking at humanitarian situations is a little bit different. But I'm through new collaborations with displaced experts, we're seeking to refocus attention on urban displacement and redress this imbalance. Patricia, could you do your... Oh, my thing. You might. Thank you. So there are three main agencies project to build an evidence base for national local governments, humanitarian agencies and donors on the opportunities and challenges of posting displaced people in camps and urban areas. I need to promote an assessment of current responses to urban protected disciplines. So raising awareness on that need and building the capacity of municipal authorities, displaced people, organized agencies, urban poor and other local actors. Do you participate in planning to underpin development based solutions to forced displacement? So our approach. So this is the mixed methods comparative study. And you're going to hear some very preliminary results today from a couple of our speakers. And you'll talk through the survey, focus group discussions about positive methods. It's looking at two core concepts of wellbeing and economies of displaced people in camps and urban areas. And we do have an urban bias. So we hope to demonstrate the potential of urban areas to provide a welcoming and productive environment in which displaced people can live with them. As I said, you don't have to change the focus of attention on refugees and think about how urban areas could be better places for those for any piece of refugees. So I think it's my last slide. Patricia doesn't want to do this for me. So the field like locations. So it's rather poor quality map there. We have been affected by some considerable political upheaval in the country. So we're working, but in Kenya, we're doing search in Nairobi and Dada in Ethiopia. We've already had to change the location once that I just have a word and we, we have actually gathered data in a SATA camp in the Afar region in Jordan. So in Jordan, this is a mod and Zattery was originally on a threat camp, but that's so long possible. And we've been working in Afghanistan in Jalalabad and then barricade settlement, which is an IDP transit from just that side of Kabul. So we kicked off this research project in the same time as the pandemic basically got got hold of Europe. The British government this year and tried to cut our budget by 70% that's 70 as part of the reduction to overseas aid. And I've mentioned a little bit about the effect of my conflict with the term on the European Afghanistan and by security. But we are still here. And we are just a little halfway through the project. I guess we are delayed and have gathered less data than we would by now. We've made conceptual strides this year. I'm excited to get the new results.