Okay, welcome everybody to this fourth session in the Seminar on Metaphysics of Science. It's a pleasure for me to introduce Vanessa Seinfeld as a teaching fellow at the University of Athens. She's going to talk about chemical bounce and patterns. So Vanessa, you have roughly one hour for the talk and one hour for discussion, but you can manage the time as you please. And okay, if you want to share the screen, I find that. Okay, let me show you. Can you see it? Can you see my slides? Yep, perfectly. Yeah, perfect. Okay. I cannot see them. Wait, let me just. Sorry, people at the University of Luván can see the screen or? Well, let's see, it's complicated. I'm not very efficient here. But to do, I mean, we see anyway as whole screen, so it's fine. It starts, there's no reason to wait. I'll fix things here. Okay, okay, perfect. Okay, Vanessa. Perfect. So thank you very much for inviting me and especially Christian for this opportunity to give this talk. This has been a project that I started after finishing PhD. Can you hear me, everyone? Yes. Yes, okay. So let me give you a little bit of a context here. So I did my PhD at the University of Bristol under the supervision of James Lademan, where I worked on the relation between chemistry and quantum mechanics. During the PhD, I was a bit resistant going into thinking about real patterns and structural realism, despite the fact that my supervisor has done such an extensive work on this. I started working on it after I got my degree, and I presented it quite a lot this topic, but today, given the time that I have available, I will go into a lot of detail. The presentation is very much, well, it's completely based on the paper I've written, the chemical bond is a real pattern, which hopefully I expect is going to come out soon. It's in its final reviewing stage, so hopefully now I'll be able to upload it for everyone to read, I suppose. So there's going to be a lot of detail here. Let me start. So, as you can see from the title itself, the claim that I will propose and support today is very straightforward. I'm going to argue that the chemical bond is a real pattern. Now this is a twofold claim. It is a claim about the nature of chemical bonds, so what chemical bonds are chemical bonds are patterns. But it's also a claim, a realist claim. It's a claim saying that in virtue of being patterns, they are real, they exist, right? I'm going to discuss the claim in a lot more detail later on, but this is essentially what I'm going to try and argue today that chemical bonds are real patterns. Now, why should we be interested in the chemical bond? So the chemical bond is one of the most central concepts in chemistry, one of the most standard ways chemists use in order to identify the structure of molecules. And the structure of molecules in turn is also a very important concept in chemistry, but also in science more generally, because it is used in order to explain a variety of phenomena. So not only chemical phenomena, for example, how a certain molecule reacts with another, but also biological phenomena and physical phenomena. So for example, the boiling point of water is explained in terms of the bonds in the H2O molecule and between H2O molecules. The DNA structure is explained in terms of chemical bonds, even drug design, why certain drugs exhibit specific neurological properties, whereas others do not, is also explained in terms of the bonds that certain molecules have, right? So this is a very important concept in science, not only in chemistry. And this in its own, this kind of gives enough support of why we should be interested in what chemical bonds are. Now, you might think that chemical bonds and chemistry being quite of an established science would have already have a very concrete understanding of what chemical bonds are. But if you go into the literature, you will find that this is not the case, right? So what is the chemical bond? Michael Eisberg has famously said about this, that once one moves beyond introductory textbooks to more, oh, I cannot see the whole quote, because it's the images of people on the right, but you can read the quote in four, I suppose. He says, once one moves beyond introductory textbooks to more advanced treatments, I suppose one finds many theoretical approaches, but few, if any definitions or direct characterizations of the bond itself. While some might attribute this lack of definitional clarity to common background knowledge shared among chemists, I believe this reflects uncertainty, or maybe even ambivalence about the status of the chemical bond. Now, this is something that it's not only philosophers who have picked up this ambiguity. You can also find it when reading, you know, classic science papers, even very recent papers in chemistry journals, right? So for example, Zao and Al, who are chemists, have written in a paper where they study the chemical bond that later studies show that the nature of chemical bond is far more complicated than initially thought. And that the connection between the Lewis model and the physical nature of chemical bonding is quite in, what's the word there? I cannot see it. I cannot remember what the word is. Intricate? What does it say there? Intricate. I can only see the in. I couldn't see the rest of the word. Okay, good. So as you see, this is an actual problem. This is not a made up philosophical problem. It is a problem that chemists are also very much concerned with what chemical bonds are. And it's not obvious what chemical bonds are for neither scientists nor philosophers, right? Let me a little bit specify a bit more how this ambiguity arises. So what one standardly does, what one standardly does, when they try to find out what a chemical concept means, they go to UPAC, right? UPAC is the organization that sets kind of the standard definitions at all that the entire chemical community accepts worldwide. So UPAC has like a huge kind of repository of chemical concepts where they provide the definitions of different chemical concepts, including the chemical bond. And the definition of the chemical bond is quite interesting. It says that when forces acting between two atoms or group of atoms lead to the formation of a stable independent molecular entity, a chemical bond is considered to be formed, right? Now notice that this is not strictly speaking a definition. It states when we have a chemical bond, but it doesn't state what a chemical bond is, right? So even when we go to kind of a very standard and primary resources, we find that the ambiguity is already revealed around the nature of chemical bonds. And this becomes even more, what's the word, is even more revealed if we go into the different types of chemical bonds. So in chemistry, chemists pose different types of bonds. We have covalent bonds, ionic bonds, hydrogen bonds, multi-sender bonds, metallic bonds and so forth. Now here we see that the definitions kind of don't help out in clarifying what chemical bonds are because they specify a different referent each time for the chemical bond. So for example, the covalent bond refers to a region of relatively high electron density. The ionic bond refers to an electrostatic attraction. The hydrogen bond refers to a form of association, whereas the multi-sender bond refers to electron pairs, right? So we see that the definition of each type of chemical bonds has a different referent here, which is very strange because all of them seem to be referring to some type of chemical bond. So there should be some underlying definition of what chemical bonds are that encompasses all types of it, right? Now one might think, well, yes, okay, we have this, but doesn't quantum chemistry and quantum mechanics, haven't those sciences provided a way out of this? Haven't they given us a deeper understanding of the nature of chemical bonds? Well, unfortunately, well, to an extent, yes, but unfortunately, they haven't fully. And this is from one main reason that Robin Hendry first kind of identified. The reason has to do with the solution of the Schrodinger equation. So what is usually done when we apply quantum mechanics to describe molecular structure and the interactions that happen within a molecule is we solve the Schrodinger equation, right? So the Schrodinger equation provides the quantum mechanical description of molecules in terms of the interaction of its composing parts in terms of the interactions between the nuclei and the electrons, right? However, in practice, there is no single way of solving the molecular Schrodinger equation. Some argue that this is because it is in principle impossible to solve the Schrodinger equation from first principles and that is why we have to use approximations. This doesn't matter for the present debate. The fact is that there is no unique way of solving the Schrodinger equation. What in practice happens instead is that scientists have developed different methods of solving the equation. Each method seems to accommodate specific kind of explanatory or predictive purposes or seem to fare better with respect to certain types of molecules. Whereas other methods might be more accurate with respect to other types of molecules, right? Now, the problem with this is that the different computational methods that have been developed to solve the equation follow different mathematical structures and make different assumptions of the molecules that they describe. And this in turn has led to different methods kind of implying different understandings of what chemical bonds are. Now, in quantum chemistry, we can distinguish between two main approaches of solving the Schrodinger equation. The one is the valence bond approach and the other one is the molecular bond approach. Now, both approaches, these are kind of umbrella terms that refer to different kind of sub methods that are subsumed in those two main approaches, right? But if we are going to look to the main distinction, we see that the VB approach, the valence bond approach, implies or rather takes that chemical bonds referred to the change in elacone distribution and to the interjected stabilization that results from this change. Whereas the MO approach kind of implies that chemical bonds referred to phenomena, which due to localization are neither directional nor subatomic. So here we have seemingly contrasting understandings of the chemical bond. The VB approach kind of implies that chemical bonds are changes in electron distribution that are directional. They're identified with subatomic regions of high electron density and there are changes which imply they kind of involve also the participation of electrons in a bond, right? Now, this is not what this is not the kind of image that the MO approach produces regarding chemical bonds. In the MO approach, we have chemical bonds as a delocalized phenomenon that is not something that happens within a particular region of the molecule but is rather a molecular white phenomenon, right? Something that happens to the entire molecule and explains its entire energetic stabilization, right? So it's neither subatomic in that case nor directional and it doesn't happen between two sets of atoms, as is often assumed due to the VB approach. So here we see that we already have a problem. Quantum chemistry has in fact clarified the chemical bonds are. It has enhanced the ambiguity that exists on the nature of the chemical bond. Now here looking at the history of how these methods have developed is quite interesting and illuminating in an understanding why we have this contrast. So very briefly we see that initially the method that was initially developed was a VB approach, right? And the VB approach was very attractive because it was very attractive because there was especially by Linus Pauling who developed it in more detail because it seemed to provide a bridge between our standard understanding of chemical concepts and quantum mechanics, right? So the VB approach was taken up by Pauling who then set explicitly to show how through this approach quantum mechanics can become relevant to chemists. And this is why the VB was constructed in such a way so as to retain chemistry's image of the bonds, of the chemical bonds. Now what do I mean by chemistry's image of the bonds? Chemists were greatly influenced by Lewis's work on covalent bonds. So the work of Lewis implied that chemical bonds, especially covalent bonds, refer to electron pairs that connect atoms. And this is considered to be kind of the basis of how chemists understand chemical bonds. And here a quote by Lewis is very kind of illuminates into understanding this image of the chemical bonds. He says, in the mind of the organic chemist, the chemical bond is no mere obstruction. It is a definite physical reality. A sum, what does it say there? Something that binds, essentially, something that binds atom to atom, right? So Lewis took that the chemical bond is a thing. It's an entity that exists within molecules. It is a connective that connects and relates pairs of atoms within molecules, right? So it's something that exists and it's there. It's part of what composes a molecule. And this was very influential and kind of underwrites the standard of understanding of chemistry of the chemical bond. And this is also kind of the spirit that the VB approach tried to also capture, right? However, then we had, unfortunately, and then we saw chemists saw that the VB approach wasn't very good at doing predictions, accurate predictions, and that it failed to describe accurately certain types of molecules. So quantum chemists started to develop an alternative methods of solving the Schrodinger equation, which was the molecular orbital approach. And this kind of gave you a completely different understanding of bonds. It kind of dissipated its reality. It made it a more abstract concept that referred to a phenomenon of the whole molecule rather than of a material part that constitutes a molecule, right? And here Coulson and Mulliken, who were two of the main scientists who developed this approach, were very influential. And they actually explicitly challenged the Louisiana understanding of chemical bonds and its reality as well. So for example, Coulson here said that the chemical bond is not a real thing. It does not exist. No one has ever seen it. No one ever can. It is a figment of our imagination, right? And this is based on his analysis of the MO approach or rather of his development of the MO approach. So we see here that quantum mechanics kind of gave us a good tool to describe molecules, but didn't help us out in understanding what chemical bonds are, it produced different understandings of the chemical bond, which what is important here for philosophy implied radically different metaphysical understandings, right? So we had a very anti-realist, eliminativist understanding of the chemical bond. And on the other hand, we had a very strong realist understanding of the chemical bond as a thing, as a material part within molecules. And we had this contrast in ideas. Now, what has philosophy done about this problem so far? And philosophy of chemistry in particular. There was one philosopher who kind of did extensive research on the nature of chemical bonds, namely Robin Hendry, who wrote this paper called The Structure on the energetic conceptions of the chemical bond. So what he did was essentially propose that there are two different understandings of the chemical bond, if we look at the scientific literature so far. The structural conception, which is in line with the VB approach and the standard chemical understanding of bonds, which states that bonds are material parts of the molecule that are responsible for for localized submolecular relationships between individual atomic centers. And then on the other hand, there's the energetic conception, which kind of corresponds to the work done within the MO approach, where we take chemical bonding to signify facts about energy changes of molecular states. And here it's interesting, and I quote him, he says that under the energetic conception chemical bonding is a theory of bonding rather than an explanation of what bonds are, right? So this is how essentially Robin Hendry tried to recapitulate what is happening in science and how the chemical bond is understood in the entire literature. And indeed, based on this distinction, what has been done so far is debating which of the two conceptions is the correct one. So Robin Hendry distinguished between the two, and then Michael Weisberg took this up and said, well, if we look at the structural conception, this doesn't seem to work out so much. So probably the chemical bond is something that looks like the energetic, what the energetic conception says it is, right? So so far we have had a competition between the two conceptions and a discussion of which one more accurately captures the nature of chemical bonds. However, what I argue in the paper is that neither conceptions provide actually a way out of the ambiguity around chemical bonds. It's not that they give us a solution, these two conceptions of what chemical bonds are, they explain the ambiguity that already exists around chemical bonds. And they summarize and highlight the main points of disagreements that exist in the scientific literature. And so that is why we have the structural conception, which kind of corresponds to the VP and the Louisiana understanding of bonds, and then the energetic conception which has been developed based on the, on our understanding of bonds in terms of the MO approach. Now the problem is that given this, neither of the two conceptions do justice to all of the results we have from chemistry and quantum chemistry, right? Exactly because they capture one of the two sites, neither of the two manages to capture all the facts and all the kind of modules and explanations we have around the chemical bond, right? So we are here a little bit in a standstill. And there are two strategies that one could follow in understanding the chemical bond philosophically. We could retain the discussion and the debate between the two conceptions and try to find evidence in support of either the one conception or the other. Or, as I want to do today, ditch the two conceptions completely and think of the chemical bonds in terms of completely different, in completely different terms. And this, as I will show, will also kind of help us understand the meaning of the two conceptions and their role in understanding the chemical bonds. Now, let me go to my proposal. My proposal is based on Dennett's classic paper, Real Patterns, right? Now, as you might know, Daniel Dennett wrote this paper about what is a real pattern and what is the method of identifying something as a real pattern. So let me explain a little bit this and then I will go to how this applies to chemical bonds. There is a standard image in this paper of six frames in Dennett's paper, right? Now, let's focus on one frame here. Let's say frame E. So each frame consists of black and white dots, right? Now, as you see, there are different ways that one can describe each frame. Let's say frame A. The one way is to identify the position of each and every black dot, right? Another way is to say that, well, this frame consists of six black boxes with, say, 5% noise in between those boxes, right? Now, what does Daniel Dennett say about this? He calls the first description, the bitmap description. So a description which specifies the position of each and every black and white dot that makes up a frame is a so-called bitmap, according to Dennett. And this, according to Dennett, is the least efficient description of the frame because what it does, it specifies the entities and properties of every single entity that comprises a frame, right? However, he says there might be alternative ways of describing that frame that don't require identifying the position of each and every black dot, right? If such descriptions can be offered, according to Dennett, then this means that there is a pattern in how the black and white dots are positioned in the frame. So if I say, for example, the frame consists of six black boxes, this constitutes a more efficient description of the frame than providing the bitmap. And therefore, this is sufficient evidence that my description reversed some pattern within the frame, right? So this is what Dennett actually, this is what Dennett says in this paper. And this is the famous quote where he kind of comes up with kind of encompasses his whole thesis. He says, a pattern exists and some data is real. Is it real? Yes. There is a description of the data more efficient than the bitmap, whether or not anyone concocted it. Now here, there are two important elements for Daniel Dennett. Not only is this a method of identifying the existence of a bitmap, of a pattern, sorry, but automatically if you find a pattern, that pattern is real. Now, of course, this has raised a lot of objections that I'm going to try and deal with some of them today. But this is essentially the account. If you have more efficient ways of describing a system that are more efficient than the bitmap, then that means that there is a pattern there and that pattern. In virtue of being a pattern, says Dennett, is automatically real. It exists, right? Now, let's see how all this can apply to the case of chemical bonds. What I essentially try to do in the paper is apply Dennett's argument to the case of chemical bonds. And indeed, I think you can see that how this goes. So let me explain. So Dennett's method of identifying real patterns applies to how subatomic interactions are described in terms of chemical bonds. First, we have a molecule and we describe it through the bitmap. So the bitmap here would correspond to the description of the quantum state, which is produced by the Schrodinger equation from first principles. So if I take the Schrodinger equation, make no idealization or approximation, the Schrodinger equation, what it would do, it would identify the properties and interactions of each and every entity that comprises the molecule, right? It would be a complete description in the sense that I wouldn't disregard any entity comprising the molecule and none of the interactions that happen between those entities. So in that sense, you could say that solving the Schrodinger equation from first principles corresponds to the so called the Dennettian bitmap. However, both chemistry and quantum chemistry have employed and developed alternative methods of describing a molecule. Quantum chemical methods, whether that is through the MO approach or the VB approach, are more efficient methods of describing the state of a molecule. The chemical description in terms of the postulation of types of bonds is also a more efficient way of describing the molecule. Therefore, this is sufficient to argue, in virtue of the existence of more efficient descriptions, that because such descriptions posit chemical bonds, chemical bonds are real patterns of subatomic interactions, right? So here, essentially, the argument is we take Dennett's framework, we apply it to chemical bonds, the framework works, and therefore we have sufficient evidence to conclude that his argument applies here as well, right? And let me give you a more specific example. Consider, for example, methane. So methane consists of one carbon atom and four hydrogen atoms. So here solving the Schrodinger equation from first principles would amount to identifying the interactions of each and every electron and nucleus that comprises methane, right? All of the atoms, all their nuclei and their electrons, how they interact with each other, this would amount to producing the bitmap. However, quantum chemists have developed different methods of identifying it alternatively. For example, Mendoza and his partners have developed a description of methane through the density functional theory, which is kind of a sub method within the MO approach, very crudely, I kind of describe it here. And this is a more efficient method than the bitmap, right? Also, I should note that it's in the paper, it's not here, that other scientists have developed other methods apart from the DFT. So for example, quantum theory, they have applied the quantum theory of atoms and molecules in order to describe methane. This also represents a different efficient, more efficient method than describing, than producing the bitmap. And then also if we go to chemistry, kind of standard chemistry. Chemistry describes this molecule by positing four covalent bonds, each bond kind of connects bonds, you know, the carbon atom with each of the hydrogen atom. And chemists usually also apart from positing for covalent bonds also identify the length of those bonds, the angles that are formed between them and so forth. And this is also a more efficient description than the bitmap. And this therefore is sufficient to say that Dennett's account is satisfied chemical bonds are real patterns, therefore, right? Now, here though, we need to kind of fill a lot of gaps. The major gap here is what makes a description more efficient than another. And this has been a major kind of point of debate and criticism against Dennett. I'm not going to discuss in detail the entire debate, but I'll try and kind of provide a definition of efficiency that seems to work well in the case of chemical bonds. OK, so Dennett first kind of specifies efficiency in terms of compressibility. He says that if the amount of bits that we use in one description are less than the amount of bits that we use in the bitmap, then this renders the former a more efficient description, right? Now, this is a very computational understanding of efficiency. And I don't want to criticize against it or kind of discuss the problems that this might have. But in any case, it seems a little bit weird to talk in terms of compressibility when you have like non mathematical chemical descriptions of molecules. So whether or not this is correct, it doesn't seem to be very intuitive. So let's just see if we can if we can clarify efficiency in a different way in different terms, right? Now, here there are two proposals. The first one is to just kind of remain naive about efficiency and say, well, efficient is a description that scientists regard as such, right? So scientists would take the MO approach as being more efficient than describing then solving the Schrodinger from first principles, or they would regard postulating for COVID and bonds as being more efficient. What efficient means, we don't care as long as scientists regarded as such, then that is enough for us, right? However, there are very there, as you can already imagine, I suppose there are some problems with this understanding of efficiency. One of them I'll just mention one is that this is a very anthropocentric understanding of efficiency, right? And then also kind of it is a very dynamic understanding of efficiency as well. It is kind of subjective because different scientists might regard something as more efficient than something else based on the specific epistemic goals that they might have. Or also more than that, it might turn out that, you know, once we develop our computational means even further, one might argue that, you know, solving the Schrodinger equation from first principles is no longer regarded as less efficient. So this doesn't seem to work out very well as an understanding of efficiency. So what is the second proposal here? The second proposal is to understand efficiency in terms of degrees of freedom, of minimizing degrees of freedom. And this idea is based mostly on Jessica Wilson's paper. I don't remember the entire title now, it was in BJPS 2017 on degrees of freedom, but also Ladyman and Ross have talked about an understanding of efficiency in terms of degrees of freedom. So let me explain a little bit what this means. So what Jessica Wilson has said is that degree of freedom is an independent parameter needed to characterize. Oh, I cannot see this. Well, let me say it in my own words, a certain description has certain degrees of freedom, the degrees of freedom correspond to the number of variables that we need to identify in order to kind of produce that description, right? Now, what Jessica Wilson says, or rather what the idea that kind of device from this is that description is more efficient than another if it restricts, eliminates or reduces the number of variables that are required to sufficiently describe a system. So for example, if one description requires has 10 degrees of freedom. And another one has five degrees of freedom, the one that has five degrees of freedom is a more efficient description, right? Put in a different way if a description can be formulated by specifying less variables and those required by the bitmap, then the former is more efficient than the latter, right? Now, I take that this is a good specification of efficiency for the present purposes, because it has two advantages. The first one is that this understanding of efficiency is no longer anthropocentric. It is a matter of fact of whether a certain description is going to have a specific number of degrees of freedom or not, right? Based, of course, on scientists' choices, but that those scientists' choices are restricted by empirical evidence and experimentation. And also the second advantage is that it kind of overwrites standard criticisms against then its understanding of efficiency. So the criticism was that then its understanding of efficiency associated that term with simplicity. And simplicity, again, seems to be a very ambiguous philosophical term, an anthropocentric one as well, one that could be subjectively kind of spelled out. So here we kind of dissociate efficiency with simplicity. It has a more robust and kind of matter of factly understanding, right, in terms of degrees of freedom. Now, what makes, though, the quantum chemical descriptions and the chemical description more efficient than the bitmap here? So if we apply our understanding of efficiency in terms of degrees of freedom, we see that it applies perfectly here, right? In the case of quantum chemistry, what we do essentially is apply idealizations and approximations. And by applying those approximations, what we do is disregard either certain entities within the molecule or certain interactions that occur within the molecule. And by doing so, we effectively reduce the degrees of freedom that are required in order to produce kind of a quantum mechanical description of the molecule. And a standard example of this kind of reduction of degrees of freedom is the BO approximation. So almost all quantum mechanical, quantum chemical methods, what they do first is make the BO approximation. And the BO essentially what it does, it disregards interactions between the nuclei in a molecule, right? And this is an example of minimizing the degrees of freedom here in solving the Schrodinger equation. Of course, each method employs other approximations as well, might disregard other additional things too. But we don't care about that here. As long as we can say, as long as we can provide an example of how quantum chemical descriptions have less degrees of freedom, this is sufficient to claim that they are more efficient descriptions than the bitmap. Now in chemistry, we can make a similar claim, though it's more qualitative than quantitative here. Again, chemists disregard certain interactions within a molecule when they produce their description of that molecule. Essentially, when they want to postulate the existence of a bond, what they do is they focus on the electrons that occupy the outer shell of the atoms. They don't have to identify which orbitals are occupied by all the electrons that make up a certain atom, right? So here again, we see that there's a certain disregard of certain interactions and entities, therefore a minimization of the degrees of freedom required. And this is enough to argue that in this sense, the chemical description is a more efficient one than the bitmap description. Than solving Schrodinger equation from first principles essentially, right? So this is a claim and based on all this now, I think one could argue that Dennett's account is successfully applied and therefore we can argue that chemical bonds are real patterns. Now, we have one main problem here. Well, Dennett's account has many problems. I admit that one could discuss many different problems, but there is one that is the most central perhaps. And that is a challenge from pluralism and instrumentalism. Now, what is this challenge? It has been argued, so this debate started primarily from Fodor, that Dennett's account seems to allow that all efficient descriptions identify patterns. And critics have taken this to imply either an instrumentalism about patterns or pluralism about them, right? So what does Dennett say? Dennett say that, you know, as long as we have a more efficient description than the bitmap, then this means we have a real pattern, right? But he doesn't deny that we can have countless efficient descriptions that are more efficient than the bitmap, because remember in the quote, he says whether or not one can cook such efficient descriptions. So strictly speaking, he allows for the possibility of many different efficient descriptions. And why does he allow many efficient descriptions? Because he admits that each description is allowed to make different sort of assumptions, approximations and idealizations. Each description can choose to disregard different things within a system when they describe that system. So in principle, it's possible that we can make up many different ways of describing the system, all of them being efficient, and all of them identifying real patterns, right? So which pattern is real? Which efficient description shall we take for as indicating the existence of a pattern, right? So Dennett doesn't really clarify that, and especially Don Ross has done extensive work in interpreting Dennett. He has pointed out that Dennett himself has been a little bit confused about that. In some writings, he seems to be more of an instrumentalist admitting that, yes, okay, there is kind of a functional role in having these efficient descriptions. There aren't really real patterns, but then he wanted to retain the realism as well behind his account. So there seems to be a bit of confusion here. Now, why is this relevant? Because we see that the efficient descriptions, even in the case of molecules and chemical bonds, suffer from the same problem. So let me return again to methane. So for example, if we describe methane in terms of the DFT method in quantum chemistry, the DFT would describe surfaces of electron charge distributions, not only between carbon and hydrogen atoms, but also between hydrogen atoms. And this would amount to saying that it kind of identifies or rather posits bonds in places where chemistry wouldn't posit bonds between methane, right? On the other hand, chemistry only identifies bonds between an interactions rather subatomic interactions between carbon and hydrogen. So given that both are efficient descriptions, then it would say we have to admit both of them as identifying real patterns. But the image that they produce is a little bit different because one of them identifies only interactions between certain pairs of atoms, whereas the other one identifies different ones. And the criticism goes like this. They say there are two options, therefore, either we admit all of those interactions as being chemical bonds. So any subatomic interaction that is identified by more efficient descriptions qualifies as a chemical bond. Or we are instrumentalist and we say, well, none of them exists. There are no chemical bonds, right? Everything has to do with the purposes we develop those methods. There is no metaphysical weight behind those descriptions, right? Now, this is a very difficult discussion that has taken up a lot of literature and I will not pretend that I can provide an answer against any of those positions. But what I can say is that at least for a scientific realist, none of these positions is appealing, right? Because both interpretations, both instrumentalists and the pluralists dismiss in different ways the special status that chemical bonds have in scientific practice, right? So there is, as a matter of fact, scientists do distinguish certain interactions as being chemical bonds and others as not. And we should try and make our metaphysical account kind of consonant to that fact, right? And in general, I'm here, I'm appealing to a kind of standard, what, intuition behind scientific realism that disregarding the success of science is not in line with the commitment of taking seriously the success of scientific concepts when evaluating the existence of the relevant entities, right? Because as a scientific realist, you want to take seriously into account how science classifies and uses scientific concepts in order to support the reality of the relevant entities. And this doesn't seem to be in line with either instrumentalism or pluralism. So what can we do? The point here is not to challenge any of these two views, but rather to find a way out of it. How can we find a way out of it? Well, what I argue here is that we can take up some ideas from structural realism. Now, structural realism is a very natural position to go to when you talk about real patterns because it is a realist thesis that has been very explicitly and largely based on then its account of real patterns. So the choice to go to structural realism isn't a random choice. It's based on the fact that structural realism have been, realists have been heavily based on the evaluation and use of then its real patterns. So this is what we're trying to, what I'm trying to do here as well. Now, what's important here? The important thing is that structural realism, especially Leitman and Ross have proposed an amendment to then its understanding of real patterns. What they say is, is that real patterns are not only those things which we describe by more efficient descriptions. This is not sufficient, but they are those that indispensably figure in generalizations that allow us to predict and explain the behavior of the world, right? So special science descriptions they claim identify real patterns, not only because they are more efficient than the big month, but because they also make counterfactual and homological generalizations that are very successful when we explain and predict scientific phenomena. And this is what qualifies and this is what we can use as a criterion to distinguish between actual real patterns and not real patterns. Because then this is what qualifies only some efficient descriptions as correctly identifying those patterns and stands as a criterion to discern those, right? So how can we kind of, how can we rephrase this in terms of the chemical bond? Well, if we follow this amendment to the account of real patterns, then we can say that it's only specific interactions, which in the scientific descriptions of bonds of molecules, rather, figuring the counterfactual and homological generalizations, because it is those that play the largest role in explaining a molecule's behavior. Of course, this doesn't mean that the other interactions do not occur, they do not exist within the molecule, or that they don't have some effect on a molecule's behavior, those other interactions that we might kind of dismiss with an efficient description. But we can take those as being negligible, nomologically and counterfactually right. And therefore, it is correct that scientists do not place them and they do not figure in the generalizations that they make when they describe a certain molecule. Now, applied to chemical bonds, this of course explains why only some patterns are identified as chemical bonds in science and why some are not. So, that aromatic compounds, for example, are unusually stable is explained by the fact that bonds are formed between the carbon atoms, right, that water boils at a high temperature is explained by the hydrogen bonds that are formed between H2O molecules, that metals conduct electricity is explained by the ionic bonds. So, here we see a postulating chemical bonds or postulating that certain interactions correspond to chemical bonds and labeling them as such, has a very important role in explanatory and predictive generalizations. And this is what explains why only those interactions are identified as bonds, whereas others are not, right. Now, a criticism that can be raised against this is that the usefulness of a specific methods of identifying certain interactions as bonds and others are not. It's not an objective thing. You know, it's subjective whether a postulating a pattern is going to be useful or not, depending on the cognitive and practical aims and goals and abilities of the person who employs that method, right. And of course, in a sense, to a certain degree, this is correct. The usefulness of positive chemical bonds and the choice of which subatomic interactions are going to be identified as such has a certain degree of is to a certain degree goal oriented. But it is also very largely based on the explanatory and predictive success of the method that they use. And the explanatory and predictive success is evaluated in terms of the empirical evidence we have and we draw from the experimental manipulation and the measurement of the system. And it is this that kind of retains or rather minimizes the challenge from subjectivity, because even if we accept that there is subjectivity about which method we choose and what assumptions we make in that method, the usefulness of depositing chemical bonds within that method that we have subjected chosen is always evaluated on empirical evidence. And this is objective, right. The evaluation of it in terms of empirical evidence, you cannot make up the experimental results you get. So that concludes the presentation of the account. Let me go a little bit into the advantages of this proposal. I'm going to mention four advantages here. The first one, my favorite one is that this understanding of bonds kind of incorporates something that has been missed by previous understanding is conceptual conceptions of the bond, namely that chemical bonds are dynamic things, right. They are interactions between moving electrons. There are things that are dynamic and time dependent, right. They are not a frozen fixed thing in space. There's something that happens a process that happens within a molecule. And this is very much this kind of feature of chemical bonding is very nicely accommodated by its understanding in terms of real patterns, because philosophers who have talked about real patterns themselves have argued that real patterns are dynamic and dynamical things, right. So this fits very well with this feature of chemical bonding because patterns allow for this at diachronicity and dynamicness. No, this sounds wrong. Anyway, this dynamic and diachronic feature of bonds to come up and emerge in the account of real patterns. So that's the first advantage of this proposal. The second one is that it resolves the ambiguity we had around chemical bonds without undermining or dismissing any of the classifications or methods of that we have in science of describing those bonds. So all methods of solving the Schrodinger equation and positing chemical bonds, all types of chemical bonds that are positive in chemistry, all of them are admissible in the sense that all of them identify patterns, right. And now, why do we have so many different methods one might ask well this is accommodated by the account because you can say that you know the proliferation of methods is partially due to the specific aims scientists have, like the predictive aims the accuracy they want from their methods, but also by the specific characteristics of the molecules that they examine. So what becomes very, what is revealed especially if you look closely at the different quantum methods is the main reason why we have so many different quantum methods of solving the Schrodinger equation is because each type of molecule, the rather the inner workings of each molecule are substantially different or rather unique in a way, all of them come down to interactions due to clonforces, but nevertheless, the final pattern the final result of those instructions are very much influenced by the number of electrons and nuclei that we have in the molecule and this changes the image a lot right and this is why we have different methods because some methods manage to identify, for example, very accurately the interactions of very large molecules, where we have many interactions between many subatomic entities, others are more successful for smaller molecules, right. What about the structure and energetic conception? What about them? Well, in one sense, those two conceptions now become obsolete. And in what sense do I mean that? In the sense of what they imply metaphysically. If you take the structural conception as requiring chemical bonds to be material parts of molecules, then this is wrong. And it has been already pointed out so by people such as Weisberg, for example, because then certain molecules are left out by this conception, right. So you cannot say that the structural conception is correct in terms of implying the chemical bond as being a material thing. The energetic conception is also incomplete, metaphysically speaking, if you take it to imply that the chemical bond is a molecular wide phenomenon or property because then you would disregard important features that chemists use when identifying chemical bonds. So the fact that indeed in certain cases of molecules, it is a submolecular phenomenon and this explains, for example, the reaction mechanisms that certain molecules undergo. This is kind of missed out by the energetic conception, right. So metaphysically those two become obsolete. Nevertheless, they are so useful. They might not be metaphysically accurate, but they do identify each one of them highlights different important features of chemical bonds. Chemical bonds as patterns, right. So in certain cases, it is correct to say that those patterns have large energetic effects and like molecular wide effects for certain molecules as per the energetic conception. For other molecules, it is right to say that this pattern kind of is more enclosed in a more specific subatomic region as per the structural conception. But in all cases, what underwrites both of them metaphysically at least is that all that all this refers to patterns of interactions within the molecule. And those patterns are the result of clone forces, right. And that's what the real pattern gives you here. It essentially specifies the nature of the chemical bond and also kind of supports its reality as a pattern. Without without displacing that the two conceptions are epistemically useful in identifying certain distinct features of chemical bondings under specific context, right. So the other thing, the last thing that I want to mention is also suits very well our understanding of the use of approximations and idealizations in chemistry and quantum mechanics. So now under this understanding of chemical bonds, the use of idealization and approximations is no longer a threat towards the reality of chemical bonds. It is no longer, it doesn't need to imply some sort of instrumentalism for descriptions. Instead, the role of approximations and idealizations is kind of to, they correspond rather and then its account to what he calls noise, right. So each efficient description has a certain amount of noise, namely things that it disregards, right. Each efficient description might have a higher or a lower level of noise. This corresponds to having more or less approximations, more or less idealizations in the descriptions. Nevertheless, they all identify in virtue of having such descriptions, we can identify patterns. Now, does that mean that every description with any amount of noise can be accepted as correctly identifying real patterns? For Dennett, yes. For structural realists, no. This is why we needed the amendment to his account of real patterns because what we say here is that science decides on empirical and theoretical grounds whether a specific approximation or idealization is acceptable, whether a specific amount of noise. Let me put it in Dennettian terms is acceptable and therefore whether the description adequately agrees with empirical evidence. So everything comes down to judging the description in terms of empirical evidence and this is going to be the final stage, the deciding step into admitting that description as correctly identifying a real pattern or not, right. So that's the last one. So in conclusion, I argued that chemical bonds are real patterns of several different fractions. This however, in order to circumvent the main challenge from instrumentalism and pluralism, I also adopted an amendment to Dennett's understanding of real patterns, one that includes ideas of patterns from structural realism. Essentially, we take here the fact that such generalizations, that these patterns have to figure in counterfactual and normal logical generalizations. So we kind of admit all of them, right. Now this proposal I argues was supported by scientific evidence fits well with how we describe chemical bonds and how we use them. It does not undermine the special science status of chemical bonds in science. And it captures very important features of bonds, namely the fact that they are dynamic and diachronic. And I take the advantage here is that we essentially hit two birds with one stone. We correctly identify the physical nature of chemical bonds, while also proposing an understanding of the chemical quantum chemical descriptions of those bonds, right. We don't dismiss any of the things that scientists do with respect to chemical bonds. We incorporate them in a way that is consistent, and also provides us a robust metaphysical understanding of what chemical bonds are. I think, yes, I've talked too much. Thank you very much. I'd like to thank. So I've written here all the people that have supported me and helped me out with this project. Thank you. I'm looking forward to your comments. Okay. Thank you very much, Vanessa, for this great talk.


cost as well during the year we also are going to build kennels in our centres so that we can expand capacity to take animals out of private care but the final piece as you just asked there is to you know really as part of this appeal is to ask for people to step forward and to take an animal in if they're not sure you know if they're saying well I'm not sure you know I will I be able to take care of it I'm now working or whatever uh they can foster and even an animal getting three or four weeks or maybe two months in a home in a fostered home it's a significant benefit to that animal for us in terms of its rehab so if people are not sure we'd be delighted to hear from them they can call us on 043 3 3 2 5 0 3 5 national animal centre line into langford or they can go on our website and register interest in fostering or adopting which would be terrific but you're right we have to ask Irish public to you know temporarily ispca.ie 4 slash donate you know to help us get through this immediate spike an immediate problem in 2023 and then for people who are animal lovers who are considering it we will work really hard with them to make it a success and to get animals back into homes. The ispca would not move animals abroad or put animals to sleep dogs that's not part of the policy. Well we haven't sent animals abroad as of yet but there are a number of very good options that we will have you know consider and you know it's a case that we want animals to have a full and happy life and that's what we're targeting but no animals do not are not put obviously if there's a a medical issue or some other matter that requires it that they are veterinary professionals tell us that's it but under no circumstances we are going to save every animal we're not leaving any animal behind and we want to focus on the gall and the northwest and all of Ireland really to step forward and help us through this. And very finally you know so just very finally Cyril I don't want to take up too much of your time but the question has actually completely escaped me at the moment so I think I've concluded with your time but no actually no it's Cyril sorry it's common to me locally we've had calls in the past for dog ownership to be more heavily regulated you know that our attitude towards it it's almost like fast fashion you get it and then ah it doesn't suit me you can give it is there anything that the ispca would like done in that area to regulate or license in some way dog ownership. Well the 1986 control of dogs act the legislation is there so responsible ownership is the law you know it's not just a nice thing to do to take a dog in or take an animal in and have a pet on the other side no I'm not really going to do it also the 2013 animal health and welfare act even the simple thing of taking a dog in as they look I will go away for the weekend and leave food out in the garden you're breaking the law you know you have to make sure that you you know you provide adequate facilities and adequate food for the animal so the law is is definitely there and it's a case that you know we are as inspectors or inspectors ispca inspectors who go out and inspect this we are very successful in terms of our court cases and our sanctions but obviously the ones that we bring to court is by 26 to 30 year are serious cruelty cases they're very serious cruelty cases there is a departmental group which the government formed recently which is looking at the control of dogs particularly after the very serious attack on a young teenager in Wexford and the impact that has had so from an ispca point of view we believe that it's the responsible ownership it's the piece the the animal is not the issue you know it's the case that if you are responsible owner an animal will never attack immediately you'll make sure you have a complying with the law in terms of the length of the lead or a muzzle or whatever so those things are very important but can I just say one final thing Greg I know you're you want to move on but just finally our strength and our support have come from us our supporters across the years you know where people have donated to help us save animals and have saved a significant number of animals this is a national appeal this is you know we haven't done this before this is an exceptional situation we're in so we're looking for that support from our existing supporters from animal lovers and and the Irish public generally to get us through 2023 into 2024 just to make that point ispca.io for a special thanks this is not uh just a nice thing to do is a crucial thing for the ispca yeah and it's an emergency all right sir thank you very much indeed for your time dr sir solovan CEO of the ispca all right next guest on the way the county's number one talk show the 9 till noon show on highland radio disney's the lion king in dublin more to be seen than has ever been seen join highland radio on our trip on thursday 26th of october 2023 to see the award-winning lion king the musical brought to you by disney theatrical productions your trip includes luxury transfers overnight stay at the four star city north hotel dublin on a bed and breakfast basis and your ticket to the show all this for just 219 euro per person sharing call 074 9125 thousand to book an unrefundable deposit of 100 euro per person will hold your place single supplement applies to see disney's the lion king in dublin hello there farmer tinny here it's summer and tinny's toys have 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clon money show dot com or from any committee member this would make an ideal father's day gift this is national food waste recycling week so here's a reminder to always separate waste food remember both cooped and raw food as well as compostable packaging go in the food waste recycling bin be climate positive visit mywaste.ie for lots of excellent tips and tricks brought to you by the government of ireland highland radial time checks with expressway travel route 32 from letter kennedy doblin when you book online and travel for less expressway bringing you the time asked the time is 16 minutes past 11 and in studio with me now is Fiona kondren founder of emotions matters hi Fiona hi great you're gonna have to move forward a little bit for me just so i can hear you i'm good how are you i am good very good okay so um we're talking about the mental health of children and the importance of that and i suppose it's recognizing areas that need some attention and we're known from recent statistics uh Fiona that we're seeing more uh children with mental health issues than ever before more instances of of of self harm and it frustrates me a little bit that we seem to recognize the issues but we don't really talk about the cause or no one's prepared to nail their flag to the mast on that or what we actually can do to improve things so what's your views on all of that well i think you're spot on craig and what you're saying we have seen a massive increase and we have a mental health crisis now on the ground at the moment so what i would often say is that mental health amongst our children has reached never before seen levels so we've never seen anything like this um anxiety and depression as widespread and worrying and self-harmon and um suicide as rising at alarming rates so i suppose what that tells us is our children are struggling and um you know the race the recent studies would um indicate that so we have a study that was undertaken of secondary school age pupils um down south and the republic here in the republic of ireland and what um that concluded with 78 percent of pupils reported having experienced a mental health condition and what we also know from a recent report from action for children is that one in five children now from the age of five to 16 are likely two percent with a mental health condition that's 50 percent rise in the last three years and our children who are age 17 to 19 there has that has gone up from one in 61 and four so they're very clearly telling us themselves that they are struggling and we are seeing that very clearly yeah but we've never been in a situation before where we've talked more about uh young person's mental health you go into a school you'll see all the signs on the walls as opportunities speak and all that there so whatever we're doing now is not working or in fact it might actually be uh nurturing the mental health issues i i would like us to have that conversation because i find that it sort of gets dragged into other areas when you try and have that conversation and we're all in the business of looking after children but i think we need to have a grown-up conversation about you know the the space uh that we provide for children and how we support them yeah and i again i think you're spot on um there's a lot of paper and over the cracks um you know um in terms of the statistics and i like to be very open and honest so that people know what is actually i just feel that when i was younger if i went to my parents right and i said this is how i'm feeling that i would or school that i would get something constructive or some guidance everything seems so hands off now with young people it's like well what do you feel what why do you feel like that what do you think might be better for you do you know what i mean i just think we're losing the art of uh caring yeah and i suppose um why is the statistics um why are we seeing these on the grind could you just bear with me for one second fiona ashine i think there's a setting on that microphone could you fix it for me listen we could put all the airs and graces and i think it's it's switched to the wrong setting and i'm struggling a little to hear fiona there is it ash no is it oh everything's okay should we swing mic three over okay because oh it's an important message fiona and you can shift over a little bit because i want to make sure that we can hear you that mic's just a little bit quiet right sorry continue there oh loud and clear so yeah so i think a good way of um understanding why the children are struggling as they tell them they tell us themselves and as i mentioned in those reports what a lot of young people are indicating is that they're struggling with school they're struggling with their exams friendships um there has been an increase in children's struggling with the cost of living crisis worrying about you know the family's financial situation and how that's going to impact on social media has a big impact on children as well too and covet when we look at a 50 rise over the um past three years then covet has played a huge role in that it's played a huge role in the mental health of the population as a whole but particularly our children as well too so let me explain craig when you kind of ask me there what um how has that played out during covet okay so during um covet children became very disconnected they were no longer going to school they weren't in contact with their friends they weren't in contact with their um extended family and whatever during the time of crisis children looked at us their big people to see how are we coping and they imitate that okay so through no fault of parents own when covet kicked them we were all scared panicky we never dealt with a situation like that so that we were scared anxious panicky fearful so we've dysregulated parents and we've dysregulated children what i often say is our children are our murs they're a reflection of our inner state of being so when children are dysregulated they are in fight or flight mode they are in stress response what do they need at that time they need emotional human relational contact connection with their big people but if their parents during that time were also dysregulated then they're disconnected from their children they're not able to provide them with that kind of safety to help do knock that alarm off and give them some emotional rest okay so what we've seen was a lot of children loving and fear during that time and fear doesn't grow a healthy brain okay what also kind of happened is when children are dysregulated when they're in fight or flight mode they cannot come to us and say this is how i'm feeling this is why i'm feeling like that this is the impact it's having on me why can they not do that because they've underdeveloped brains what age craig do children's brains grow at all their age till the 21 out of four girls it's 25 for boys it's 27 so what does that mean that means that they haven't mastered the skill of emotional regulation they're not able to cope with their big emotions remain calm and adapt and respond appropriately to it yeah so it's us the big people that are doing that yeah but i get you i i i get exactly what you're saying and you're right and you're the professional as it relates to uh the impact say cove we would have but i want like but broadening that out for y'all now right you you will see out there now that parents money cuddle the children do you know what i mean we protect them from absolutely everything you've got 18 19 20 year olds living under the rules being treated as like they're 14 we've got students heading off to to college that don't know a handle of a saucepan from a sieve do you know what i mean like it's rather than just the the major things that i think that have amplified it like covid as you mentioned are we just not raising our children a little bit different now that is not preparing them for the tough realities of life that come at you very quick what um what we know for now um craig from the science of child development it is gifted as the answer as to how we raise emotionally intelligent children children or emotionally intelligent children or children who know what they're feeling yeah why they're feeling that how it impacts them and what they can do about it to help themselves feel better these are the children who thrive in life and go on the adulthood and thrive okay so they have gifted us the answer how do we do that that all comes down to how we grow them a brain okay and it means growing them how do we grow them a brain that allows them to do that has been they trust them trust in us to be able to invite us in to help them to feel safe in that provision of our care okay so we have not we um have not been taught within our society we've all gone out to school we've all learned aq but we've been not been taught aq we've not been taught how to manage your emotions in healthy ways okay so when we're not taught how to manage not only were we not taught how to manage our emotions in healthy ways with emotions in our society we're also seen as bad and appropriate we don't want to see them we don't want to hear them so when we see emotions in our children outside of what we deem to be good we shut them down we dismiss them we do as you say rescue and fix jump and molly-colly them try and make them better or we punish them okay so what that leads to is the stuff and down of emotions rower than the release of emotions i get you if i can just finish it because this is really important yeah that leads to the stuff and down of emotions rower than the release of emotions then what happens is that we know those emotions just don't go away they stay buried alive and they come out in two ways through anger and aggression or they turn onwards through the manifestation of anxiety depression self-harm and suicide and addiction hence why we've got a pandemic on the ground at the minute in relation to our adult population around violence crime mental health and addiction and all of that so if we now want to raise emotionally intelligent children children who are able to cope with their big emotions reduce the likelihood of mental health and all of that kind of stuff then in order to do that then we have to learn to become emotionally intelligent ourselves that's exactly where i was going to go you see because i know as a parent okay sometimes you feel that if you're too tough and i don't mean tough in any physical sense but if you're too emotionally tough on your child we've been conditioned to think right if they go off to the room and disappear for two hours are they contemplating self-harm or if they storm out of the house have they gone to kill themselves right i'm going to use the frank language because that's it we now are so fearful we as adults many of us lack the emotional intelligence to hand that down and it's i think this started some time back and people that were weren't emotionally intelligent and now the parents so you know what how do we then make sure we mature emotionally ourselves that's where we use now the scientific updated research which teaches us that in order to raise emotionally intelligent children the work starts with us we have a tendency when children are presented with big emotions and behavior we send them out to counseling it's the work begins with us the big people we need to learn how to manage children learn in three ways so we're developing you know when i says to you about their brain growing every day well what's it growing emotional regulation impulse control empathy critical and logical thinking the ability to make decisions that's what we're wiring up every single day and that takes decades to do that but if we weren't taught how to do that then we need to go back and learn that we need to learn to cope with our big emotions and we need to learn to respond to their big emotions and behaviors using emotional intelligence not fear not being harsh and critical because if we're harsh and critical to our children then when they're struggling they do want to lean in and rest yeah and the provision of an explosive bomb if we're a jellyfish parent if we're wobbly wobbly fearful panicky are they going to do this are they going to do that them and our children are struggling they're not going to want to lean now because they fall flat in their face so what we want is to raise children now who feel safe being able to lean in and rest and that provision of our care and we do that by growing ourselves so we can grow them in the best possible way we are teaching them every single day to master those skills in terms of growing their brain the same way as we say in the mighty school we wouldn't expect them to do a GCSE at the age of seven why because they have a mastery skills so why do we expect them to be able to cope with their big emotions when they're nine ten and thirteen when they fully don't develop until they're in their middle yeah but we are saying but I think there's an expectation of young people to maturing earlier as well to do you know what I mean and and that's a societal thing we're rushing them along in terms of their development 100 and they are not developmentally able to do that but they're being exposed to all the horrors of real life say through social media for example when they're literally should be you know playing outside yeah but how then do we because the reality of life then is is that we're all in a cost living crisis particularly here in the northwest you know lowest wages lowest possible income thousands upon thousands of us living in homes that you can't pretend the cracks aren't there stuff like that how do we deal with all of that sort ourselves out and then start working on on on the emotional intelligence of our children it's overwhelming sometimes yeah and I suppose when I look back in my early years of parenting I was 19 when I have my first daughter who's now 26 I didn't really have a clue when I reflect back on it I had an underdeveloper in myself I couldn't cope with my emotions and I came to the table with my own story and my own stuff as well too which we more on to your children then as well okay so I suppose it's really important that I have a wee middle daughter who is 17 she's significantly disabled with a life limited condition so when I went down to have her Craig she was my second wee daughter my other wee child was coming in between years at that stage in their development what we also know is that during adolescence not only is their brain underdeveloped they're also going through a period of construction so 40 percent of their neural connections is being primed while the brain reorganizes itself what does that mean a lot of times they feel very out of control with themselves so they need us they need that relationship to help them to feel safe well when I brought my wee daughter back home that was significantly disabled I was very much in fight-or-flight dysregulated myself the same as some parents who are dealing with lots of all their challenges and the home as well too and when we're disconnected from ourselves and we're in stress response then we can't give our children what it is that they need so when those needs are not met in the relationship with us they get those met outside of the home and that's what that looked like for my daughter her needs then she dropped out of grammar school and created a lot of problems for her then in teenage years okay so how now do we move forward with that well shit's always going to come to us we are always going to be dealing with challenges and stresses and all that kind of stuff but it's really down to us now my wee daughter that's significantly disabled her condition has a magically got better if anything it's got worse but it's over the years I've learned to manage my emotions I've learned to self-regulate and I have learned now to deal with my teenage daughter and respond to her behaviors using emotional intelligence and they pick that up too as well yeah I am not parent and no more out of fear so this all comes down to us educating ourselves and using this knowledge and information we have got Andy away within our society of seeing children's behavior through the lenses of morality what's right and what's wrong and not through the lenses of child development so when we are making children wrong for engaging in what they should be doing children are supposed to be chaotic message challenging all over the place they're supposed to make mistakes and get things wrong but if we are constantly coming at them criticizing judging them shaming them doing all the fair based traditional behavioral approaches that we were talking to use then we are growing their brain every day that the message that we communicate to them every day that you're bad you've done something wrong you're not good enough that message over time becomes a belief that becomes cemented and there's days when they fly over 20 odd years that then becomes their blueprint we're sending them out the door them where they don't feel good enough for them themselves and when they don't feel good enough for them themselves they're always going to look to the outside to help themselves to feel better okay right um there is an online masterclass coming up on the 14th of June where you're going to give people tips to manage uh and I suppose to we're going to be spending more time with each other over the summer aren't we okay so maybe it's a great opportunity to work on things yeah not a challenge I mean it could be challenging but it's an opportunity to immerse yourself in in this process so how do people get involved in this masterclass to I suppose fix themselves and fix their young people suppose the masterclass is really only a snippet of teaching you how to deal with your children's mouth downs um and um a way where we use relationship and connection um I suppose the bigger kind of picture is I run a program called parent in my love and limits without losing it so that's a really more in-depth program which teaches parents to be able to self-regulate and it teaches them then to be able to co-regulate their children using emotional intelligence so if any parent wants to avail of my training then they can follow me on social media Fiona Condren Emotion Matters I have got in the process of getting a website developed now that should be up and running next week so that'll be available there as well too but I suppose you know what I would always encourage parents Craig is that it's really best to get this information and knowledge and from a preventative point just just finally yeah right in terms of say for instance we were all parenting perfectly which is impossible what is what is the what is the one thing do you think in a sort of school going children's needs to change you know societal wise do you know what I mean so rather than us constantly trying to keep the lid on the part or playing whack-a-mole do you see one thing of significance that's triggering a lot of the problems in younger people I suppose um as I say we're now raising children in such a fast-paced technological world as well too and that brings with it an awful lot of challenges you know so with children growing and developing you know they're growing up are we bombarded with too much information say for instance a big topic at the moment and we're not going to get into it and I don't want to debate in it or to put you in it but there's a big conversation at the moment about gender and identity and what have you are are are the children too young to cope with that in your mind as well as everything else the other challenges of the world like do would you ever can not as I say I don't want to paint you into a pro this or that that's not my motivation but it's just a topical conversation the moment you have concerns that that's too much to take children are being exposed to an awful lot of outside the gender thing with with technology at their fingertips they're being exposed to an awful lot of information at a very young age information overload you know um when they've got an underdeveloped brain and they're not able to um have the capacity to be able to kind of manage that as well and we're as I say we're seeing that um on social media with bullying people can be very negative there can be a lot of judgment a lot of body image um issues and all that kind of stuff as well too so there is but I suppose the bottom line as Craig is that our children are struggling at the minute when they're struggling they need their big people they need to be able to come to them when they're struggling and if we're harsh and critical they're not going to come to us and when we're parent and out of fear they're not going to come to us so the key here is really um aquapon parents to be able to be the type of big person that they want their children to be but what I can also say as well too is that children spend a lot of times in school and it's important at the minute there's a lot of children struggling within school as well with emotions behaviors and mental health and it's how do we support you know education schools and educational professionals to be able to achieve best outcomes and the must of this kind of crisis as well too and the approaches that I would teach support behavioral regulation and children by using moments of high emotional distress to be able to teach and coach and guide them to be able to calm down south south and self-regulate so it's really important to provide this train and not just parents but also teachers but should this not be happening in schools as well you know I think and we can't medicate and bury our heads in the sand and think oh this is going away because it's not we have to meet the big people have to meet your head on uh Fiona Condren you can search Fiona Condren emotions matter if you want more information and details too on that upcoming master class but the wider program there as well Fiona thank you very much for calling in it's great to have you back on the show again and we'll chat to you again soon okay take care we'll be uh getting some live music uh on the way very shortly stay right where you are watch the show live now on youtube facebook and at highlandradio.com with a high digital online skills course you'll feel a real difference I can listen to all the music I like the post app that's coming out and it's brilliant anything you want and all it's at their fingertips does small turns but they mean something learn essential online skills with simple accessible lessons at high digital dot ie or free phone 1 800 20 30 30 brought to you by vodafone island foundation and alone vodafone together we can knew this weekend home store and more all clothes hangers are all half price that's right all clothes hangers are all half price but 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also a great choice of shirts ties and fruitware extra reductions for all wedding parties at wantson men's wear open seven days a week on main street better kenny see wantson men's wear dot com with july around the corner it's time to get your two three two ordered with low finance rates it's time to find out why nissan is dominating the irish market with petrol e-power hybrid and electric models calling the i motors today we're sure to have a nissan model for you house proud summer sofa sale is now on across all stores sofa starting from just 399 pounds plus an extra 15 percent of everything in store scorching hot deals with thousands of sofas in stock and ready for delivery and by now pay later finance available call in to our strong super store located on abracad square or shop online at house proud furnishings dot com join derrick ryan for a night of dancing at the clanry hotel letter kenny this sunday the 11th of june that's derrick ryan live with the clanry hotel letter kenny this sunday the 11th of june pay at the door dancing from nine till 11 p.m okay you're very welcome back to the line till noon show of my left shoulder it's a proud parent you can see him there he doesn't think it's on camera but he is but we have a primary there's no point leaving now you've already you've already made the shot stay where you are we have in studio with us a full piece irish indy rock band they are the afaids good morning great to have you back on the show thank you and we're speaking i just introduce you actually we've got 15 and 16 year olds kahr and grace and there's two graces the great smurfie and a grace newgents and carl warner all of you very welcome back on to the ninth lino show thank you so much right so talk to us about this new single i mean it came out how many weeks ago well 19th yeah so it's been like i'd say two weeks ish kind of two three and do you guys feel you've found your spot now you know because you're a young band but you've been together for for a bit do you think you found your voice now do you do you like where you're at yeah we feel like we've definitely improved like greatly from where we started like even writing songs you kind of just find your way a little bit more like in actually what you want to play live and what you want to kind of sound like so it's always changing like but it's uh it's nice like you don't remember kind of getting into a groove a little bit more yeah and yes they're building up your audience as well organically too isn't it it's about getting the music into people's ears and then getting them to the shows when you perform live yeah that's exactly it like we just want it to reach as many people as possible like well that's it yeah we we believe in the music so we're thinking now just when we're releasing the song we want that as many people to hear it as possible and then if they like it they like it yeah now if gigs upcoming in Dublin and Belfast what's that like is that nerve wracking is it exciting are you outside your comfort zone or is this what you're all been waiting to do or what i mean it's all just like new experiences for us and that's just what we're kind of welcoming like would you enjoy it because you see here's a little bit of advice when you're old like me uh what are you laughing at sorry when you're old this is where someone jumps in when you're old like me and you haven't done much you know you can't go back so now's the time to do it all like it's great just being like a like a local band like we love the latter candy scene and it's it's been great for us but you know the natural progression is to play to a bigger audience isn't it yeah and there's different types of people that you know you could blow up in in Dublin or Belfast you know I mean you just never know that's the exciting thing what about the traction online the the ability to get your stuff online i say this quite a lot to bands well i think it's such an important part of growing nowadays isn't it i mean to be able to get your own stuff on Spotify yeah no so we actually were recorded and done everything for the song ourselves yeah i have a bit of a recording studio up in the house and uh done a few days recording and then i mix it all myself but i just get a breakdown of where people are listening to aren't you where your tracks have been streamed so you're getting streams from all over the world as well aren't you yeah i mean what was our stats like um yeah well we're doing fairly well on Spotify now like you know getting it out there was it was a bit of a challenge but we got it and yeah it's cool seeing streams in germany yeah that's what i was saying i would love that so there's someone in germany listening to this track it's brilliant isn't it like it's kind of even hard to believe well the world's shrinking for you so you know and there's a funny thing i think particularly from the northwest our music seems to travel really well to germany and particularly the netherlands you know there's a lot of acts around here that go and do gigs over the summers over there whatever it is anyway okay right so we're gonna hear only char does it yeah right it's that now which means it's available to stream did you do a video for this or you're focusing just on the audio streaming of it what's the story so the video still works brilliant excellent okay and should we talk about gigs what's coming up we talked about the gigs come up in Dublin Belfast uh how's the summer looking for you's what are you where he's playing and uh party in the park party in the park for everyone yeah we're doing that again a bit further up the building yeah we're going i think we're branching out to dairy now as well great stuff and what i would love to see because i i would be at a few different events around the county yeah not many but not as many as i'd like and sometimes you have periods where there is a crowd right there's no band on stage and they're playing out music out of the speakers and people are wondering when's the live music going to start i would love to see organizers and promoters get bands like yourselves or others if you should be up for that get yourself on stage before that the main show starts because the audience are there they're mad for music and it gives you an opportunity to play to another audience you know and make if you could at the same time you know i think i do really think that we do do amazing stuff but i think sometimes we're missing a trick there you know what i mean that there's brilliant stage time to get used up there in front of a crowd and others uh so we'd love to see more of that in the summer right okay only child who wrote it whose fault is it and how many joking i kind of came with the cards and a few of the lyrics and brought the band and then this whole sort of bridge thing then came out whenever we were playing it together and it really made the song cool so it's a collaborative effort right yeah everything all right okay well should listen whenever you's already give us a lash this is only child from the brilliant aphades you've been calling to me when you say you can't sleep i don't see purpose of my presence in your future weeks and i know and that's the aphades and only child and uh what you's always managed to do and i don't know if it's how you record how you play live but you really do a great job of recreating the recorded version yeah we've never we've never done that song acoustically really yeah sounds good right that's the aphades where uh so when are you playing locally again you talked about the what's it called the party in the farm come on sevens july sevens the dry okay so hopefully uh plenty of gigs between now and then um and we wish you continued success do you have any influences musically we're speaking about this in the car um and we all for our instruments we all take very different influences which i think makes a pretty unique sound that's pretty cool for the band i think is there a wet leg is there a wet leg vibe there now maybe yeah i read some of us love white love yeah i there's a just a vibe like a year old people but i just there's a there's a sort of the lyrics and might just be the two boys two girls is it two boys two girls is it two i've never seen the boys yeah okay actually i did you're right okay listen come here hopefully it's uh letter kenny this year uh glass and brunette's year why not uh but let's just love to see these guys you know get the the stage that you deserve more than you are especially locally uh but you'll go down a storm and Dublin and Belfast you can check out the aphades on Spotify and also um on their social medias of course and a video for that coming up as well too so you get a second you get a second band see if you get to pull that off all right thanks very much the two graces uh kaha and uh kyle and uh the parent managers as well we appreciate you's calling in and thank you so very much indeed all right we'll be back with our final segment after the break around the northwest we'll be live at foyan company's letter kenny store this friday the ninth to celebrate creating colorful homes a three-day big paint weekend which is on this thursday until saturday in both the letter kenny and ballet buffet stores book a free in-store color consultation with a du lux consultant in letter kenny this thursday we're in ballet buffet on friday call in and enter to win big prizes like a sofa mattress room makeovers paint vouchers and more north west regional college has launched its exciting range of part-time courses starting this september and enrollments are now open whether it's a new scale or a new career direction there's something on offer for everyone for course details at our dairy london dairy limivari or stroban campuses visit nwrc.ac.uk slash part-time and remember enrollments are now open future proof your career with a part-time course at northwest regional college have you heard about charlie's chips they're made from potatoes that are carefully selected then peeled cut and like everything else that charlie's in letter kenny cooked to water that's why they taste so good from 12 right through to eight in the evening charlie's at pierce road letter kenny offer an extensive menu that includes a great selection of gluten-free options all available to sit in or take away the next time the hunger hits pull into charlie's disney's the lion king in dublin more to be seen than has ever been seen join highland radio on our trip on thursday 26th of october 2023 to see the award-winning lion king the musical brought to you by disney theatrical productions your trip includes luxury transfers overnight stay at the four star city north hotel dublin on a bed and breakfast basis and your ticket to the show all this for just 219 euro per person sharing call 074 9125 thousand to book an unrefundable deposit of 100 euro per person will hold your place single supplement applies to see disney's the lion king in dublin well what a great job we have to be able to um firstly listen live to great young talent like the aphids and talents of all ages um but also to give them a wee platform as well fantastic stuff uh right okay now let's see can we help pauline hi pauline hi greg nice to speak to you right okay um missing passport is that it what's happened yeah well it's my 21 year old son and we're all members in green cattle i live in green cattle um uh went out to play golf it's open week down there and he had just arrived back from university and he had the passport in his coat pocket and he took the coat off to go out and play um at five o'clock yesterday evening and when he came back in the coat's gone right now he's had his passport in the pocket i think somebody has because the locker rooms have just reopened the day before and he had left so people are coming in with their golf bags for the first time and i'm thinking somebody has gathered it up and just stuffed it into the golf bag or somebody has you know while they're getting changed lifted it by mistake which happens yeah happens all the time i'm sure i'm sure it's been lifted by mistakes so if you found a blackface north jacket if you took it by accident there's a passport in it but also and i think pauline you make a great point maybe you just stuffed it into the big pocket in the bag if you're listening please double check the uh pocket of your bag to make sure that the black for north face jacket but most importantly the passport isn't in it because your young 20 year old one year old fellow is heading away very shortly and needs that passport yeah he's he's he's flying out he's supposed to he's flying to england on tuesday and then to turkey on wednesday it's a trip that he's planned with his girlfriend and her family from last october and he's absolutely he couldn't speak on the phone he's up to hide over he's up to hide over this is uh this is really and listen we know it's been lifted by mistake from from green castle golf club we just appealed to anyone and what day was that golfing again sorry pauline it was just yesterday yesterday okay so it's five o'clock right so if you were in there so we know the timeline so in green castle golf club after five five o'clock yesterday please double check your bag or your car for a black because they're very popular especially in the golfing fraternity so someone's lifted it thinking it's theirs or they've lifted it thinking their mate's left it behind it's got a passport and it's out there we just need to make sure the right ears have heard this i'll stick it up on my social media as well pauline and we'll put it up on the highland stuff and we have to make this trip happen for for for this because we've tried to get an emergency appointment we can't get anything down in Dublin yeah um so we're we're really really hoping that somebody comes across it in their golf bag or in the the bit of the car where they've just gathered everything and thrown it on all right okay so collectively appeal to everybody and we want collectively people out there st anthony you know yourself uh we need this young fella to get his passport but as i say if you were at yesterday evening a real specific timeline a green castle golf club please double check you didn't accidentally lift a north face jacket within it a passport uh and it's a it sounds like it's going to be a great holiday for him listen fingers crossed pauline fingers crossed thank you but we'll get it up on the socials as well and hopefully get people to share and let us know if there's any success will you please but i will indeed i will indeed that's fantastic right okay take care of yourself for him bye bye thank you very much indeed take care all right you too all right some comments to take us up to the top of the hour here um excellent band and sound from the afaids singer's voice is fabulous yes she's got and it's effortless you know when someone sings and they have to sort of or they appear that they're uh banging it out uh it's effortless uh for her uh love the talent on our doorstep hope they go far what they need is just the the the the right break the right support and i've heard them a few times and i've no doubt that they can make it because as well as that being um fantastic musicians and artists is they are four lovely young people as well uh hu in creasel assays the afaids are just fantastic here here hu i agree uh another person agreeing with me hi greg i agree i'm in my mid 60s and was treated as an adult from i was 16 working in a full-time job young adults are not allowed now to grow up and we do it i think some of us do it in the name of love uh to protect but sometimes i wonder do we have to make sure that we're not wrapping them up in cotton wool and holding them back rather than uh helping them progress any comments on that 08 6 60 25 000 we'll pick them up for the morning or give us a call on 07 491 25 000 but that's where we have to leave it on the show today