Hello, everyone. I'm so grateful to have all of you with us here today on a Friday afternoon, no less. I'm Ivy Love. My pronouns are she, her. And I'm a senior policy analyst in the Center on Education and Labor at New America. And we are here today to talk about community college bachelor's degrees or as we call them CCB degrees. We have a wonderful group of folks here today to share with you the what, why, where and how of these programs. So I just want to point out a few things before we get started. First, if you click the resources button on your event viewer, you'll find some links to some useful publications that will add to what you hear today. So I'm going to take a quick look at Maria Claudia Soler's brief documenting the growth of CCB state policy over time, a national inventory of all CCB states, colleges and programs that exist nationwide from Deborah Bragg, Tim Harmon and myself. And then finally, a brief from Elizabeth Mesa and myself just published yesterday, looking at CCB colleges programs and student outcomes in Florida and Washington. So take a peek at those at your leisure, and then I just want to reiterate what you heard, we have time built in to answer your questions today so please do not be shy. There are no silly questions, please feel very free to share those with us. And with that, I'm just going to get going through our presentation so let me pull up my slides for you. So first, what is a community college bachelor's degree. Well, these programs are distinct from transfer agreements with universities or even universities having a center on a community college campus. This is actually community colleges themselves conferring bachelor's degrees. So, why would a state want to do this. Well, this list is certainly not exhaustive but what I want to start off with you today is just sharing a few common reasons why states might want to authorize their community colleges to offer bachelor's degrees. One is that in some fields some really critical fields requirements to enter the profession or to progress in the profession are rising. I'm thinking of allied health immediately. While nurses and respiratory therapists for example can enter the profession with an associate degree and successfully practice more and more employers are wanting the extra education and skill set that comes with a bachelor's degree to either further support their professional practice, or to facilitate the opportunity for those folks to move into leadership roles. So that's one common reason. This may also be interested in removing more barriers to bachelor's programs through these community college bachelor's opportunities. The states who are asking who's not showing up who's not enrolling in existing bachelor's programs and our states might observe that they're perhaps not reaching older students or racially minoritized students, or other groups that are being under served the way those states want those folks to have access to bachelor's degree programs. We do know that some groups of students who have been long underserved in higher education enrolling community colleges at higher rates, especially racially minoritized students and older students. So supporting the continuation to a bachelor's degree for those folks might be facilitated by these community college baccalaureate programs. Finally, and this rationale ties in with the second point states that have set goals for themselves around bachelor's degree attainment may be inclined to think about CCB as a means of meeting that goal. If other programs aren't working for folks that they want to reach with bachelor's program opportunities, perhaps expanding to community colleges could really help move the needle. So those are some states rationales that that why they might want to expand bachelor's opportunities to community colleges let's talk about why colleges might want to offer these programs. So first and foremost these programs are about meeting local needs. Most all authorizing states require proposed CCB programs to connect to labor market demand. So while the college may already have experience at the associate level in a particular field. If local employers are running bachelor's degrees it makes good sense for the college to build on the expertise they've already built to build on the program they already have in place to get up to that bachelor's level. We see that in many technical fields which you're going to hear more about later. The flip side of that is that perhaps another local public institution doesn't have a bachelor's program that's connected to a local need but they might not have the capacity to support all the students needed to meet that local need. Together with the community college if they're both able to offer bachelor's programs, they can connect more people to local jobs that are important and good jobs in their own communities. And related one thing you'll hear more about later is that the average age of community college bachelor's students in Florida and Washington to states with the highest number of programs run in the early 30s. These are not folks straight out of high school. And in that chapter of life they may already be really deeply rooted in their own community. This is home. So for occupations where it's really important not just to bring folks with important skills to fill local needs but to keep folks in the community. It makes good sense to bring the bachelor's degree opportunity to them, where they live and where they are rooted. So that can be especially a strong rationale for teaching and allied health professions among many others. So finally, before I hand the mic over I want to show you what students and graduates of CCB programs are saying about why they chose this path to get a bachelor's degree. All of these quotations are from either New America interviews with students over the past few years in Florida, or from the work of Deborah Bragg and Elizabeth Mesa connecting with folks in Washington Community College Baccalaureate programs. So let's look at this first theme relationships. So not all CCB students are going to attend the same institution for their bachelor's degree that they do for their associate degree or gen ed. But for those that do we're hearing that they're really interested in staying close to their support systems. If they already have good relationships with faculty advisors peers and others at their community college it makes perfect sense that they would rather stay there to pursue a bachelor's and then we can look at institutional fit. So a thing that has come up in this is a sense that culturally community colleges may feel like a better fit for students who are older working full time or are different from a student coming straight from high school in other ways. It isn't about prestige here it is not about the college's brand name. It is about a sense of belonging. That's what we've heard from students. And finally there's this practical sense of fit. So core schedules support services and other parts of institutions are just not always accessible for an older student who is working full time, or as a parent or a caregiver in some other sense. In just a logistical sense a program that's developed and offered through a community college that gets these many roles that they have in their lives, maybe the only bachelor's option that works well for them for some students who were interviewed it was a CCB or nothing. That's it. There was no, there would be no bachelor's degree if it were not for this path to get a bachelor's degree. So I'll just leave you with that, and I want to thank you for coming and thank you for your attention. So now I'm going to hand the mic over to Maria Claudia Soler, who's going to share with you what the state policy landscape looks like. Maria Claudia, the mic is all yours. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you so much for the introduction. It is a pleasure to attend this virtual event to speak about state policy adoption of community college baccalaureate degrees. Before I start, I'll tell you briefly about me. I currently work as a channel is that the American Council on Education and my work focuses on domestic and international issues around access and success. When I work at ACP, the research that I'm going to be presenting today is work that I did in a consulting role outside my ACP. I started researching CCB degrees working with Debra from who you will from whom you will hear later today, when I was doing my PhD at the University of Illinois, and later on working as a consultant for the community college research initiatives at the University of Washington. So part of my presentation today, you can go. I draws from a data note that I wrote in 2019 with three objectives objectives in mind. The first goal was to update national landscape of CCB degrees. I wanted to answer the question, where are these degrees being authorized. My goal was to capture sometimes in CCB state policy adoption. Is this new. How is the growth of CCB degrees as a state level happening. Third, I was particularly interested in describing some of the factors influencing state CCB policy adoption. The public work I relied on iPads websites of coordinating boards in each CCB state, including the websites of state legislatures state administrative agencies and institutions, as well as research literature and media. And here that updating the count of CCB states is particularly challenging, especially among states in which authorization takes place at the institution level. So every single effort to collect data on CCB conferring states institutions and programs, including the America's effort to do the same is really really relevant and appreciated. I know a summary of my findings regarding the count of CCB states and the national landscape. Back in 2019, I reported 23 states that authorized at least one public two year predominant degree granting institution to confer baccalaureate degrees. The updates have been made to this list, and today I will report 25 to include Massachusetts and Arizona. In Massachusetts only one institution, Quincy College confer CCB degrees. Arizona on the other hand, it's part of a whole new development that I did not capture capturing my data notes, because CCB degrees were authorized last year in Arizona. What you see here in the slide is CCB states in green, and the full list of CCB states at the right hand side. So my question for everyone here is, and feel free please you have a we have a poll for everyone prepared. Do you live in a state that authorizes CCB degrees. I don't think I can see the results of this poll, but I trust Ivy will collect the information later and share with us. I will indeed yes. So one thing that I find fascinating about being able to go back on about being able to future CCB states in a map like the one that you see in the screen is that it gives us an opportunity to think about accessible pathways to the baccalaureate as I was mentioning earlier, and about bachelors degree attainment from the lenses of geography and equity and that's pretty cool. Something else that I looked at in my data notes relates to the state policy adoption of CCBs over time. I concluded that the growth in state adoption of these policies has been happening at a steady pace for the last two great decades. So they are not really new. This figure shows that the number of CCB states has increased relatively smoothly between 1981 and 2021 at an average pace of point 74 states adopting per year. The factors influencing state CCB policy adoption include first of all, an interest in improving associate to baccalaureate degree transfer policies and processes. Second, attempts to increase college completion rates. And third, efforts to align higher education with the changing labor market. Finally, I was really interested in describing trends in state policy adoption. So I classified states into categories, those in which all two year degree granting institutions are authorized to confer baccalaureate which I called type A, and those where authorization is granted on a case by case basis type B. The current figure reflects such distinction. I won't go over some of the details and patterns in this presentation, those which are included in the data notes, as for now I just wanted to focus on two specific things. First of all, we can go next. A state wide authorization rather than an institutional degree program specific one is especially effective at increasing the number of community and technical colleges that offer a baccalaureate degree. In Washington and Florida, our states with statewide authorization and both states exemplify this point in Washington, 85% of the community colleges and technical colleges over CCB degrees in Florida such figure is 96%. States decisions to authorize CCB degrees in specific fields of study reflect labor market trends and efforts to avoid program duplication for the most part. For instance, Michigan authorizes all community colleges to confer CCB degrees. But the degrees can only be offered on a couple of specific fields with workforce gaps, such as energy production, concrete technology, maritime technology and culinary arts. In California, where only 15 community colleges are authorized to offer bachelor's degree. Program specific health information management, bio manufacturing, industrial automation and a couple of other degrees, I mean back in the pilot phase. Most conversations about authorizing CCB degrees are really at the core of policies that emphasize the role that these degrees can play to improve college degree completion roles to potentially address access and equity. And how this has to do with higher education and field workforce that impact economic development. All these issues are pretty important to efforts to investigate details at the program level, like Tim Harmon has done, and to learn more about the outcomes of students CCB programs. And Elizabeth will tell us later, I really need it. And that's precisely the information that we're going to learn more about later today. So I'll stop here. But if you want to learn more about CCB degrees in the US, we want to take a look at the data note that I wrote, please access it. The link is going to be one of the slides then the next slide, Ivy, and feel free to contact me at mc solar is not you can go to the last slide. I'll just hold the information here. Thank you so much. Yeah, and Tim. Thank you so much Maria Claudia. So to access this data note you've got the first page here. There's a resources button on the event viewer that you can see if you click that you'll be able to access her a link to her data note as well as a couple of other publications that will kind of give you a deeper knowledge of what you're going to hear today. So thank you so much Maria Claudia that was really wonderful. I don't mind the data note I emphasize this part a lot. I counted 23 states, but you know Americans phrase new America's effort for instance has updated two more states that have been the outcome of new development so if you see 25 or 23 again disclaimer, I counted 23 back in 2019, but a lot has gone on since then. As you point out we're authorizing like about one state per year so it makes sense that you know two year two to three years later we have two more states we're on a roll. Thank you so much again I really appreciate it. So now I'm going to hand the mic over to Tim Harman to talk about what's going on with CCB programs Tim it's all yours. Thank you CCB and thanks Maria for that excellent setup to this whole discussion about the trajectory of how this is evolved over time. It's fascinating to me to see how it's kind of been steady progress with a few periods of rapid growth if you will, and it's certainly one thing you'll learn if you spend any time working in this at all is that this is definitely a moving target so every time we turn around something new is happening. So, we're going to spend a little time today talking about the inventory work that we've done, and giving you some sense of the what we're learning from that. And understand that if you look at it today you would see a little bit different array of programs and there's new programs coming online all the time, and maybe some programs being retired so it's a shifting thing. But when we do an inventory we sort of take a point in time and, and that's what we that's what we're going to be talking about today. And I think all of that how the landscape is changing is California, which has authorized recently through legislation, all of its community colleges to offer the the baccalaureate degree, which is a huge change for them because they have sort of pilot status with 15 colleges authorized to do that they've a rational to 30 new programs a year but that's a lot of programs and there's a lot of community colleges in California so that's just one example of how this landscape is changing. By the time we get done with this webinar today it'll probably be different than what it is right now. So it's, it's an exciting time to be involved in this work so this first. So let me just say a little bit about the inventory that we that we have been working on, and we're, we're very pleased with what we've done so far but we know we have a lot more work to do. We had a lot of information about what states were authorizing the baccalaureate for community colleges and why and sort of the circumstances of that but what we didn't know was, which, which specific schools are doing this and what programs of study are they offering. And so we spent a good amount of time over last year. So we're digging into that. And so we really, we can, we first of all we had to say well who who what kind of institution that we're looking at so we were looking at those institutions that are associate dominant or baccalaureate mixed mission institution so that's kind of technical stuff but these are, these are the schools that are primarily associate degree schools community colleges, or their, their so called mixed mission schools. So it's like PEDS categories 14 and 23 if you're keeping score so we had to kind of draw a line around what we're looking at and that's that's the that's the population of schools that we're that we queried here. And so this back between it was April to October of last year it's when the lion share this information was collected. So we gathered information on authorized programs of study from state agency public records websites telephone interviews, etc. And then we drilled down into that to look at individual schools went out and looked at school individual college websites and even college program of websites to gather information about the programs that they were offering, so that we could characterize them in terms of the CIP codes that they were using the type of degree that was being conferred the specific you know occupational area that they were that the students for and a number of other things but sort of when when the program started because we want to have a sense of how long these programs have been in existence so that's just, you know, a little bit of background on the inventory work, and it continues so what you're looking at here is a sort of a diagram that kind of is meant to show the numbers of programs in each state. So the circles there are centered on the capital of each of the states that are authorized provide have authorized a community colleges to provide baccalaureate degree approximately 600 programs of study spread across those states. Obviously when you look at that. The majority of programs just a little over 50% 52% in fact of all programs of study are in two states Florida and Washington. And when we expand that out a little bit you had three more states Georgia, Texas and Nevada, you're going to get 75% of all the of all the CCB programs of study that are in place. But as I mentioned, we expect this map is going to look a lot different year or two from now and we come back and do this again because we have just in counting up institutions I think we have about 1545 institutions that are offering a Community College baccalaureate right now. That's probably different today than it was yesterday but in any case, it's moving target, but we one of the things we've identified that I think is interesting is that there are 200 colleges that live in states in which states have authorized their community colleges to offer the baccalaureate that have not yet fielded a program of study so there's a lot of room for growth week and a lot of that is in California but we expect a pretty significant amount of growth of this over the next over the next few years. Next slide. We asked the colleges are in our inventory we found out what fields of study what program categories are these programs offered in and we looked at that both in terms of the two digit and the six digit classification instructional program codes. And so what you see here are the most common areas of study and it was interesting to me that business like if a single most frequent category was business and a lot of these are very applied programs in in business management logistics management and a range of things that are very specific application oriented management of baccalaureates in the business area. If you we've broken out in this slide, nursing as separate from the rest of health professions and nursing here the 65 programs these are, I think, almost exclusively going to be bachelors of science and nursing programs, but it would be if you combine all if you take all health together nursing and other other health professions as the single most, you know prolific area of program development and that's of course, reflective of both the kind of credential evolution that's occurring in the health field particularly in nursing as was mentioned earlier, as well as just demand, you know, there. We have very deep demand for health care and so we're colleges are responding to that demand in a way that effective for reaching students that otherwise can't be reached or can't get access to these programs. So, you'll see those are sort of the major categories and aside from, you know, business and health care education is probably the user next biggest one and then computer information sciences and information technology generally. So, large numbers of programs in each of those categories as well. And we'll talk a little bit about technology and a couple slides in. So, one other question we asked was, what kind of degree is it in the most dominant degree is the bachelor replied science so it's a bachelor's degree with a with a occupational focus and applied focus. And so that makes sense because these in most states are require that these programs be developed in response to particular labor market requirements and to meet unmet needs and also many states further require that the programs not be directly duplicative of programs at the four year layer. And so that leads us to what you see here where the vast majority of programs are bachelors of applied science that are focused on specific occupational preparation, but a bachelor of science is second most common type of degree. And then the BSN bachelor of science and nursing, which is they sort of a species of bachelor of science but it's one that's focused specifically on nursing is the third most frequent category of types of degree and if you take those three types of degrees the top three, they are for about 90% of all the different types of the programs that are out there so there are other types of programs there are some bachelor of applied technology. And then there's even some bachelor of arts but the primary, the primary focus here are on these applied programs of study. And, and that's true across all the different categories, you know business and technology. Next slide. Oh, so we also drilled in a little bit on common tech programs. And here I think we're looking at mostly, we're looking at CIP codes 10 and 11, which would be 11 is computer information sciences and support services and communication is CIP code 10, those two digit codes. And there's also some other programs in here from like in health information management. That's a technically oriented program. It's really a sort of an IT program but it sits in the healthcare field which category 51 in health professions. And so there are some very applied business IT management type programs that exist in the business category. And so that which is CIP code 52 to digit code there so these, this is about 60 ish programs 70 programs. Bend the definition of tech a little bit and add in some other programs like, like engineering or engineering technology, or mathematics and statistics and we would we would see more programs maybe all together we might have 100 of our 600 programs would be that was what you might would be like, you know, tech tech programs. So what's that maybe 18% of our total program category is in the is in the very technically oriented fields. Okay, I think that's, that's those are my slides and I like to turn it over to Deb Bragg now who's going to talk about the results outcomes and what these programs mean for students. Thank you, Tim. Where are we going to do another poll at this time. We can. Thanks for the reminder Deb so we have another poll for you if you haven't already answered the one about whether you saw your state illuminated on the CCB map please go ahead and do that it's still open. We're also curious what your role is. Are you a researcher employer, are you government staff student. We have another poll for you we're just curious sort of what angle you're coming from to this conversation today so if you have a second, please click the poll link and share that with us we'd be really delighted. Thank you Ivy. Well folks do that I want to just give a shout out and thanks to this panel, especially Ivy for helping organize and put our slides together but I also want to recognize folks who we couldn't be presenting if they weren't part of our research team so I want to thank Iris Palmer and Mary Alice McCarthy at New America, and you've mentioned Elizabeth Mesa who is at the University of Washington and a great partner a lot of this work. There's several other people though, Tammy Nappian tech, Ellen Wasserman, Stephanie O'Leary, and Carrie Bishop, and I'm sure the interns who are at the at New America. And it really is one of those it took a village to get to where where we are today so just a quick shout out to thank everyone. I'm going to dive into what we've learned about students student enrollment student demographics and outcomes in the two states you've heard quite a bit about in Florida and Washington, because these are the states and not only as you would imagine the most programs they have the most students and very particularly large number of students in Florida, which is our you know one of our first states to start this and has now scaled to 100% all of the colleges in Florida now are authorized to confer they're not all doing it but they are all there. This, this just gives you a sense of the students who are enrolled by demographics in those two states. The, the this profile very much matches the students who enroll in community colleges and those two states which isn't too surprising but I do think it's important for us to note that 46% of the Florida students are students of color and 44% of the students and these are students that have graduated from these baccalaureate programs in the community college so quite a diverse group. So go to the next slide. One of the things we've been able to do in Florida and Washington is to look a little bit at the wages of these graduates, according to to the, the programs that Tim was just talking with you about. There's a lot of things you can see on this slide I'm going to go relatively quickly but for our conversation today I'd encourage you to look at the top row and really compare the wages of men and women in Florida and computer and information analysis and also though that those those numbers those wages for Washington, women and men and while we do tend to see a gap between the salaries of men and women with women lagging behind in and many of the fields where we've done this analysis. So in those areas where we see, I think a really interesting finding for for women who have graduated from computer and information sciences programs in Washington and this is a strong rationale by the way, for the state of Washington, that has just adopted a statewide legislation to make computer science programs to be awarded with bachelor of science degrees to potentially eventually maybe every community and technical college in Washington. The strong recommendation for the adoption of these programs was that they were needed to address access and equity issues for women and students of color. So some promising results there. Maybe we can. Yeah, this is the next slide this is somewhat similar. One thing I want to point out in this slide is that I think an important finding for Hispanic and Latinx students in health professions. If you look at that second band, and you compare again fourth quarter wages for students by race ethnicity, we see some pretty promising results there in Florida, actually quite substantially higher than black and white, which is, you know, still problematic that in that black students wages are substantially lower. I think then no we hope they would be, but we do see something going on there with the Hispanic Latinx students in who are completing these two programs and those two states. This is really early I just want to emphasize. You know, some of these are not large numbers yet, but we are continuing to track and look at what is happening. And the number of graduates just like the number of programs is growing. And so we'll be able to do, I think some better analysis as we move forward. So we can go to the next slide. So we wanted to just show you the what we have seen and this is Ivy, her, her good work, I think, looking at the Florida IT CCB graduates so these are community college faculty and just give you a sense of the demographics of that group. And as you can see here 33% of those graduates IT graduates are part of the Latinx group almost 20% are black so we have, we have quite a diverse group there. Next slide. And this is a comparison of the wages of those students graduate wages by race ethnicity, and it compares what those students wages would be when they completed the associate degree to what they receive and a bachelor's with a bachelor's degree in the similar program of study. So these are, you know, good, good comparisons. And we can see almost or around a $13,000 wage bump for the students who have the bachelor's degree. So there is a there is quite a substantial increase and when you think about the relatively low tuition and fee structure for community college baccalaureate programs. I think as Ivy pointed out in a conversation not too long ago. This appears to be a really good investment for students. So the next slide is really showing you the same thing with just emphasizing the difference there in that baccala ban so you really see a difference in those wages of the associate baccalaureate students. This is really promising and work that we we know we need to do in other states and really amass the data so we can speak to this. So we shift gears then and just the last few comments. We've been able to do research in Washington that compares our community college baccalaureate students to university students in again similar program areas and this is the first work that's really been able that we've really been able to do these kind of comparisons of baccalaureate grads. This slide looks at the completion rates of students who are in that upper division program of study to get their baccalaureate in a community college to the students who have have transferred to a university and completing and those completing their degree so this is looking at at students primarily once they've completed that lower division they transferred either to a university or stayed in their community college and what we see here are increasing completion rates for the community college baccalaureate students. The first analysis just looked from the beginning, you know over the last decade, you know what did we see computing just an overall completion rate. Then we said well you know what that's probably not altogether fair because a lot of those programs were brand new. Let's look at programs that are a little more mature.  So we do see a little bit higher completion rate these are quite high completion rates for you know transfer students and baccalaureate students so we will again continue to monitor this but the criticism that you all may know of community colleges generally is that low completion rates. These are completion rates that are, you know, it very high and very admirable for just about any college or university so something continue to watch but at least very promising. Also, we could not we didn't have the data, unfortunately, to compare the demographics of the enough students anyway, and it between the community colleges and the university so we just wanted to show you nursing, which is another big program to give you a sense of how those two groups compare. And this is fairly typical where we have enough numbers is we see fewer white a lower percentage of white students in the distribution with a higher percentage of students of color, and those students tend to be distributed and I also want to point out that we do see multi racial and indigenous students as well who are enrolled in these in these programs so again something we will continue to watch in and because this I this notion of equity and access and completion is just core. I think to these background degrees. So, I just have. Oh yeah, our match so we also looked and compared employment. So an employment match means that using unemployment insurance wage records we were able to identify students as employed. We were able to do that in Washington for that CCB group of graduates and university graduates we were able to look at the first quarter, after completion then the fourth and 12th quarter. What you can see here the dark bar are the community college baccalaureate students. So their employment match is higher than the university. You know graduate match now. There's reasons for this. We can't say. Essentially, there's a lot here one is that many times these older community college batch baccalaureate students are already employed. They already have more of a history than the younger university graduates. We also may find that these students do tend to stay in the state and in the area where the UI wage records will pick them up. Any university graduates may have more, maybe more likely to leave the state, or to be in jobs where we don't catch them in that UI wage analysis but these again are really important to continue to fight. And I just want to point out for the critics of these degrees who often claim that the students won't be able to secure the same kind of good jobs as university graduates. We just really don't see that in the data. Now when we dig deeper, maybe we will be able to see some differences that we all need to know about, but we have not found them in this initial descriptive work. And then there, the one more slide. I want to point out for you the middle computer and information sciences where we are comparing again the CCB graduates and the university graduates. And here is an area that may be of interest to you where the CCB graduates earnings are exceeding the university graduates earnings. In the two years or the two time periods we could compute, which was at one year within the one year of graduation and one year after graduation. So some really promising results here. And also if we had more time we could we could dig in and and really talk about this a bit more but it gives you a good sense, I think, of some of the promising results for finding. And also some of the research will we still need to do to better understand what's really happening with these students and graduates.  Well, thank you and thank you to all of you. I'm just going to stop sharing, because we are anxious to answer all of your questions. While I'm pulling up the questions document I was thinking about what we anticipate might be around the bend for CCB's and so I will talk through that while I'm pulling things up but I would just invite the other panelists to offer your thoughts as well. One thing that has come up a few times over the course of our conversation today is that a couple of states have expanded their authorization of community colleges this is not just one piece of legislation and then the state is done. So as Tim mentioned California has now authorized any of their community colleges to offer a bachelor's degree program so one thing that we see around the bend is probably a lot more programs there. In the last few years, Texas is another state that comes to mind where I anticipate will see a lot more programs. And then there are states like Ohio who recently passed a second piece of legislation that is bringing the bachelor's program to nursing, they are specifically authorized to to offer a bachelor of science in nursing that is a completion program so nurses with an associate degree can do their final two years through this and earn that bachelor's degree. So we'll see more of those. Are there other things that are coming to mind for you all what you think might be around the bend for the community college baccalaureates I will say just to add real quick. I think we might see some first authorizers or conversations about first authorization I know there are other states that are curious about how this strategy may work for them. So we're, I'm feeling optimistic so would love to hear from all of you while I'm looking for these questions. Well I'm excited to see what's going to happen in Arizona. We just held our national conference there as my colleagues know and besides a very large contingent from California there were many folks from Arizona who are very excited and I saw a preliminary list of programs that the colleges are interested in working on and it is quite a long and impressive list so I you know go Arizona it'll be quite interesting to see what they do. Absolutely Maria Claudia did you want to add something as well. Thank you. I saw someone asking about. And how common. It is to have different fee structures. It's not something I covered in in my data notes, but when I was looking at when I first started to look at these degrees I was really really interesting in the cost of these degrees and how we can look at the return on investment. And this has to do with I mean a point that they also covered when she was trying to compare you know like the earnings for like CCB degrees versus baccalaureate traditional baccalaureate. One thing that I found really really puzzling is that it's the information. This is not just about CCB degrees, but the information for many many institutions. It is really hard sometimes to understand what's the total cost of a degree. So, I remember myself trying to classify lower division courses and upper division courses and trying to come up with. How much would be the total, like of this degree I remember calling institutions and asking them okay but can you please tell me how much does this degree cost. No, but we cannot tell you it's hard to come up with a number. It depends on how many courses you've taken. So, I was just thinking for myself, I mean I have a hard time sometimes understanding how much is the cost of this degree and I was again approaching these as a researcher doing the study on the websites and calling institutions. And I was trying to put myself in the shoes of a student who has finished high school or is starting to work or hasn't had a lot of experience to college. And I was just thinking about how hard it is sometimes to come up to understand those types of things. So working on making information accessible for students is really important. And I think that applies to, to most institutions some programs and there are some states in which the legislation clearly says, these degrees not going to cost more than 10k. That's one approach, and some of these legislations have adopted that approach in some other states. That's not the case. So, again to respond to that question about this person who asked how, how, how communities to find different fee structures. My answer is, it's super common. That's probably the norm these days. So working on making information accessible to students is important. So we think about students as consumers who are informed and make informed decisions. That's something for instance, that's an area of improvement, let's say. That was very diplomatic and very accurate. Yes, transparency for students is very central. And I think that's that did either of you have any thoughts you wanted to share on tuition or fee structures based that we got a question from an audience member about that. Can you say more I'm not going to understand the whole question for you. Yeah. So curious how common it might be to have different fee structures for upper and lower division components of students programs. We haven't talked about Washington yet but I suppose we could have the Washington, Washington, Florida do this very differently between the two of them. Well, it depends on states so states approach this differently and some states that are highly decentralized could even approach it differently from institution to institution, which leads to the complexity that Maria Claudia mentioned. So Washington has a policy that says the tuition rate will equal at the upper division will equal the average regional public university tuition rate and the reason for that was that they're in negotiating the authorization of the degrees there was the feeling that cost is a big issue, and that they want to parody in in those two other states have different taken a different tack I believe in a state like Michigan. There is no difference the upper and lower division tuition rate is essentially the same. Now, the fees may vary at the, and that is harder to figure out, as Maria Claudia said. And IDI, the Arizona bill, I said, I think that tuition can exceed 150% of the lower division tuition rate, I believe. So anyway, it's not standardized it varies across the country there is a strong. I think, you know, sort of ethic principle that this tuition should be less than the four year publics, but who are seen as the peer and awarding background degrees. But we need more, we need to know more about that. And I believe our colleague, Iris Palmer is working on this and will be writing a brief to really unpack this and help us understand it, and give some insight from a policy perspective so we all look forward to her work. So we're in the thick of it right now so guess we'll have more to share soon. Before I could have bring the next question to the group I just want to quickly answer an easy question that came in which was, does DC allow CCVs know the District of Columbia does not. And to go a step further, neither does Maryland, neither does Virginia so there are no community colleges in the DC metro area where you could get a bachelor's degree so thanks for sharing that question though I appreciate it. Let's look at, oh I've got a very good question for us. What happens to public four year institutions when community colleges add bachelor's degrees does their enrollment drop or does this grow the pie. I might give that to Deb do you want to take that one first and then I'll open it up to to the group. We, we recently wrote a book chat chapter Maria Claudia and Elizabeth mays and I on Washington and we looked at enrollments at the two year and four year level over time the trend over the time these have been offered. We've seen enrollment growth in both sectors. It pretty much parallels. So it's not as though we see a big increase in baccalaureates at the community college and a big drop in university we see, we see that pretty much the same trend line over time, even during this whole time so that's very descriptive results and we did see that and the only real study that we know has been done that's looked at this is researchers at the University of Florida, who analyzed potentially whether enrollment was impacted at the baccalaureate level in both public and private nonprofit and for profit. What they found was they did not find a drop in enrollment in the public institutions but they did find a drop in enrollment at the private for profit institution so it does look like there could be a shift, and that shift could be that students stay at their baccalaureate rather instead of than getting a baccalaureate at a for profit institution. So that's an important finding. So it's maybe growing the public institution pie. Yes, yes, yeah. I should also say that Mike Potter, who is really a very knowledgeable did his dissertation and just let me know he is trying to replicate that study in Washington has got some interesting data so that is a study that we really would like to see done other places. That's great. Tim, Maria Claudia, do you have any thoughts and then I've got one more question I want to make sure to get in for us. I was going to add something quick to the to address that question and is that when we ask about that question in general terms, we need to keep in mind that when when we say like what type of state that we're talking about these all community college back all community colleges are authorized to offer the degree, and then we look at all enrollment across the state, or is it a state in which we need to focus on specific pro on on specific institutions and more specific degrees that are the ones for which an institution is authorized to for the degree. So all those types of details make answering that question, like, is a challenging aspect because we need to look at different levels of analysis, and many times what happens to be unavailable. So, for the most part what we've seen some programs, as that was mentioned before is that we see that involvement has increased was to trying to figure out what why. But again, what needs to be really careful and focus on what institutions what states what specific programs because legislation happens to be restrictive in many cases and it could be that the community college I don't know 15 degrees but only three out of those 15 are the ones who we can consider a CCB degrees. So, that was just my two cents. Thank you, Tim. I saw you wanted to say something as well. I don't know if it's been if it's been mentioned yet, you know, but this business of what happens needs to have the context of what's been happening with with the pandemic and the significant decline in overall community college developments. And we, I think we have some evidence to suggest that those enrollment declines did not occur in the in those programs that were baccalaureate in the community college layer so that's indication I think that there's significant demand for it, we're reaching a population that we might not otherwise reach, and that maybe traditional students are deferring entry into into post secondary instruction generally during the pandemic, but maybe people that are already working otherwise engaged didn't because they, you know they had they had means to access that so it is a complex situation you have to look at it in the in the context of what's going on right now. I wouldn't worry about too much about run last couple years because it's all been thrown in a in a hat. Well isn't that the truth. Yeah. Okay I've got one more question for us and I in the last three minutes that we have and I might be selfish and try to answer it first and then I'll open it up to all of you. I have a question of, let me find it again here. What are the chief barriers community colleges facing getting their state to approve CCB and what are successful strategies for overcoming those barriers. That is a big old question and I cannot answer it in three minutes but here's the short version that I can give you. I think understandably sometimes universities are nervous about this. They're nervous that there's going to be duplication and that they're going to be going after the same students. So the study that Deb mentioned comparing, you know, the, how this may have impacted state university enrollment versus for profit enrollment is an important finding I think to share with universities and also another thing where I have seen kind of light bulbs go off and talking to folks about this who may be a little on the fence is this notion that the average student in a CCB program in Washington is 32, the average in Florida is 31. You're not fighting for the same students. You're not fighting for the same students and in the evidence that I have seen so far sort of to Deb's point is that the public institution pie is growing. And I think if that becomes clear to folks in the university sector that this is about what we can offer together and who we can reach together rather than going after the same students with public money. That that hopefully will allay some concerns but I mean I would say that, you know, I get the nervousness I get the nervousness but I think there are some reasons that we could allay that. Do others want to answer in about 30 seconds. One all concern about the degree has to do with the with mission creep. So there are many, many opinions around whether a community college that offers a baccalaureate degree wants to be like a university. And that in like some concerns are being raised about what's the, what's the mission of a community college what this has what what this has to do in terms of access and equity. And there are some people concerned about that particular aspect. It's also true that some community colleges did shift to become universities after offering the baccalaureate degree but that's not the norm. And the most part some legislations also include pieces saying that the community college needs to maintain that mission and remain to remain a community college. I'll stop now because I stole those 20 seconds. You're fine you're fine. Thank you all for coming we're so grateful you're here I'm sorry we couldn't get to all of your questions maybe we can try to tweet out some responses later. I wish you all a great afternoon a great weekend and thank you to all the wonderful panelists who joined us. So thank you so much. Thanks.


OK. So, hello everybody. I'm glad to welcome you today at our session. My name is Artur Koženjewski. I'm working as software engineer at Intel. This is Grzegosz. He's also software engineer at Intel. And today's presentation was also started with Hemant from Rackspace, but he wasn't able to join us. And only the two will be in this presentation. So, the topic of today's presentation is rolling upgrades. Perform a schema rolling upgrade in just one release cycle. So, first of all, and the question is, what is the rolling upgrade? And like upgrade is installing new kind of software, new version of software that was already running. And in the distributed systems, you should be able to replace one version of a software with a newer version without disruption of working, for example, API serving to the end user. And when you install this version 2, it should be working as the same with the version 1 in the same time. So, for example, when you will be serving the API, user will not see the API downtime at all time. So, you will be able to upgrade from one version to another without losing any customer requests. And the problem here is that you will access the database with two different versions. So, we need to have special case for managing two different versions of software, accessing the database, new schema, new fields, different type of fields in the upgraded database. So, why does the rolling upgrade matter? It's like I said, when you will have these rolling upgrades running, you will not drop any API request from the customer, from the user of the cloud like CSP. You will be having no operational downtime, both at API level, the server level and data plane level, like access to the VL via SSH or VNC. So, it's like your user won't be upset when he knock at your API and don't get its service done properly. So, current approach in rolling upgrades is to do this via multiple releases, like at least two, three or even four releases. And when you are doing four releases along migration, you got this extra cost of development and extra effort from maintainers and reviewers of the code to be aware that this something should be there for backward compatibility with the previous version. Also, the old code, like, for example, old column name has to be carried for the multiple releases, as well as you are getting the backward compatibility issues for all this extended period of time. So, the most complex... So, what we need to elaborate here is like the complexity of changes. It's like data compatibility, the data format and schema changes when we are talking about database layer. And also accessing the data with two different versions of software on the upper layer. Okay, so before we discuss the open stack architecture, I wanted to introduce you to other pre-existing solutions for intercustal communication with support for different service versions at the same time. Okay. So, one of the first was on CRPC, developed by Sun in the 1980s, and it was actually a part of NFS project. In SunRPC, we define XTR files, which contain the schema, version numbers are incremented, when functionalities change in the remote program, and existing procedures can be changed or new ones can be added. At the same time, more than one version of a remote program can be defined, and the version can have more than one procedure defined. Another one is protocol buffers. They don't have explicit versioning, but we will design it in a way so that old and new services with different schema definitions could still communicate. To get that, depending on the implementation, unexpected data is either stored as extensions, make it grounded safe, or silently dropped. And new fields should be added as optional, meaning that old data can be loaded successfully. At the same time, you should keep the fields ordering. Your numbering could break existing in flight data. You also shouldn't change the way that any given field is stored, but it may be a case-based case. Another one is Apache Thrift from Facebook. It's pretty similar to protocol buffers, as it doesn't have explicit versioning, but still defines strict schemas. To maintain compatibility when the protocol evolves, you shouldn't change the numeric tags for any existing fields, and any new fields that are added should be optional. Sensible default values also should be set so that new code can properly interact with messages generated by old code. And when messages are created by new code, they are parsed by the old code, newly introduced fields are ignored. However, if you modify and serialize the message again, the unknown fields are serialized along with it. So if the message is passed on to new code, the new fields are still available. Next thing to remember is that non-required fields can be removed, but the tag number can be used again in updated message type, so it's common to rename the fields instead and tag it as obsolete with a prefix so that any future contributors don't accidentally reuse the number, and changing the file value is OK, but the file values are never sent over the wire. So if the program receives a message in with a particular field, it isn't set, the program will see the file value as was defined in the program's version of the schema. Next up is Erlang, which is a distributed programming language and runtime system in which program state is stored in processes. So it's a dynamic language just like Python. Processes usually send and receive data represented as tuples. It contains a simpler approach to live upgrades using records, and records are an extension of a tuples syntax with which you can define schemas. This is similar to named tuples in Python. In case of Erlang, the preferred way to extend the existing protocol is just to append new values to the end of the tuple, and it works. This gets us to the database schema definitions, because Erlang databases are also stored tuples defined with records, and when you want to change the database schema, you should change the record definition. In OpenStack, we have... I wanted to show that in this case, we usually have two types of inter-service communication, in which we have to keep data compatibility in mind. So messages are both exchanged and stored on RabbitMQ message queue, and rows of data are stored in the SQL database, which is another story. So you probably know SQL database, which uses the data definition language to describe schemas, and in the simplest case, we could approach the problem in the same way, just add new fields, and this actually covers most of the cases, but it's too simplistic when we want to have the possibility to remove data to, for example, enhance performance of the database. We want to have the possibility of changing this schema in an incompatible way. There are also other things to consider, like database logs when adding foreign keys, and we did a presentation which discusses this particular problem in the previous OpenStack summit in Austin. Yes, so, like I said, currently OpenStack is using multi-release approach, generally using version objects for database access and RPC messaging, and expand contract schema changes. What is version object? It's Oslo library created initially in Nova, and then ported to Oslo to gain every project in OpenStack ability to use these objects, and they store the data version together with the data and describe in point of time how the data is defined, like what's the fields, what's the type of the field, like integer or string, and also it's useful in RPC messaging, like you can version your RPC message that is currently sent with JSON dictionary and have this strict versioning on the server and agent site. Also what is cool about version objects is they had this translation method to another version, meaning when you will be upgrading your server version to the newer one, and the agent will stay older in older version, and you change something in protocol exchanging the information between agent and server, you will be able to translate newer format on the server site and send it back to agent containing known format. Of course, also what we can do inside version object is to migrate the data between one format to another one or another format, another column, another place to store the information. When we are talking about keeping compatibility at database SQL level, it's more complicated. It's the expand contract approach when you have some kind of DB schema defined at one release, and first of all, you have this expand, which is only additive changes to the database schema, so you are only adding new columns or adding new fields and new tables, and does not disturb the older version to work, and after you will be... You can do this expand phase online, because it's not disrupting the older version of the server. The second part is contract phase, so it's kind of destructive changes, so we'll be removing the data, the columns, and it's not safe to run it online, unless you will move to the multi-release approach when the contract changes will remove not needed data from previous releases that are existing in database and are no longer accessed by any version of software that can run. In OpenStack projects we are generally keeping the compatibility between X and X plus 1, so it's one release backward compatible approach, and after you will roll to another version, you can, in contract phase, remove the not needed, not accessed anymore column or any other piece of schema, database schema. So the current multi-release approach is like when you have this application and it's reading and writing from the column, and you like to rename it to another column name in X plus 1 version, you will be having read from the older one and write to the older and newer one, and you need to provide the data migration script so that in the background you will be migrating in small chunks of data from the older column to the newer one, new format and so on. In X plus 2 version you will need to write to the older column because of the X plus 1 is reading from it, but you can also read from the newer column because also the X plus 1 is writing to the newer one, so you will be having the compatible data inside both columns. And the first moment when you can release the older column is like X plus 3 release because X plus 2 and X plus 3 are only using the new column only for the reading purposes. So it's like you can have, like you have seen up to four releases of having the stale data of the old schema version inside the database to become backward compatible to the older version. It's because of when you have multiple servers running at the same time, serving API and accessing the database and you have to make this compatible to one point, sorry, minus one release and if you would have, like, only one point when it will access database you can do this in two releases. So it depends on the project use case. So when we are talking about one release approach for the rolling schema upgrades we can, like, access it with, address it with also version objects. It's like when you have the X release and it's kind of tenant ID is example from Neutron. Currently in Neutron we have renamed tenant ID to project ID and this scenario will show you how we should done it if we had Ovo in place, which we don't have right now in Neutron. So not all of the data is using OVO to access the data. And so in the X release you have only the tenant ID and version object with version 1.0. When you will go to the X plus one release you will need to increase the version of the object to 1.1 and also you will need to write to the older column and also read from the older column. With using the expand phase introducing the new column and also write to the project ID which is the new column name for the tenant ID. So you are serving, you should be able to from X release to access the tenant ID and inside the X plus one release serving both tenant ID and project ID for tenant ID for the backward compatible like agents from the server agent communications. And of course there should be some kind of migration script and you need to run it on the background and when you will translate all the, you will migrate all the data and you can drop the old column and in this case it's kind of tricky because you will lose your X minus one compatibility so you cannot do this like being all the time compatible with the older version using the also version object only approach. And also you will need to switch inside this data access layer object are using some accessing methods you will need to switch the write and read from the older tenant ID column to the newer project ID when you will apply the contract scripts removing the older column and of course you have the older data in the newer column. So let's see what's the other opportunities. So what happens if you miss step when applying this and there can be a lot of misunderstandings when first introduced with this idea so here is for example an example in this case you start a new service which writes new data to the old and new column so that it can still be read by the old version but because it reads data only from the new place which with a possible fallback to the old column when the data is not found it can miss an update with the old service which the older service can make to the row added for example by the new version. Next is another problem could result when the new version stops updating the old column while the old version still tries to read the data from it and again because you don't have any information about the version all the release may miss an update or even new rows added by the new version. So this is the proper way that even the OpenStack CI needs to test like Multinode Grenade test Adjustment Services version running together with consideration for the aforementioned edge cases. A new idea to shorten the release cycle in which developers need to keep track of the changes in the data model are triggers and this is currently considered in Keystone and Glance. These are services which don't have internal service RPC communication which are between Q. So the main database layer with which we want to keep compatibility is the SQL database and by introducing these triggers you can actually skip two steps and the data migration part is started before the upgrade. So the layer implemented with triggers manages the data compatibility and the actual application doesn't have to switch between different patterns of accessing data. When aligning it with the previous examples it looks like this so when triggers are introduced and all data is migrated before the upgrade they make sure that the old date and newly introduced code updates and reads are consistent, have a consistent view of the data. On the mailing list there were some skeptical voices about the trigger approach. The main concern for me is that there is not enough expertise in the current Python community to maintain triggers and the one approach proposed by Michael Bayer is to use SQL kemi events which could be used like triggers and this should be possible to make upgrades in one release cycle entirely in Python since even without events you can place fields in a SQL kemi class under if clauses changing the model on the fly while the application is running This doesn't take into consideration though that we can't modify the data access pattern in the old version of the app so only in the new one we have to approach it with and cycle through four data access patterns and only the three last would be implemented in the new release. So this actually could be a split up into a sub-project like a sub-project of Keystone or Glance the compatibility enforced data access patterns can be made totally transparent for the main project by using triggers with table views to represent data as two separate databases so the first would connect to the first database and the second database can be created for the new version And like you see here the original developers would write schema and data migration scripts as normal on the first part and these migration scripts could then be used as documentation for creating triggers in rolling upgrades sub-project If you want live upgrades you could benefit from this separate project which would propose an alternative upgrade path And as I previously mentioned this could be used even with an older release of Keystone or Glance which doesn't support upgrades So summing up what the operator should get is in either case whichever running upgrade implementation each OpenStack project considers it should be as simple as downloading the new code running expand which can install triggers roll out the new version run contract removing triggers or schema and data And we want to encourage our projects to use that model from the operator's point of view Thank you Questions? If there is any questions there is a microphone so you can speak to the microphone My name is Arkady Konezkiv from Dell EMC Question with respect to ordering Is there an upgrade across all the projects and is there workflow or triggering order to make sure they are all done in the appropriate order so to reduce the disruption to the user? Yes, so most projects authors take that into consideration that when introducing new functionality it can cause incompatibilities so usually a new feature that is implemented in one release isn't across project feature isn't available until you upgrade to the new version so you could upgrade the services usually in either order but you won't be able to use new features from this release You need to be like cross project compatibility from another point of view using some kind of exchange enhance feature from Neutron you should be able to see that Neutron is not yet upgraded and not to use it and be also compatible with the older version of Neutron And the main concern here is API compatibility it's the HTTP API that services communicate with each other they usually don't use RabbitMQ but for example for notifications the version objects are used So for example now the Nova Neutron, Nova Cinder communication is using OSvif and OSbrick libraries so it's kind of also version communication between two services Kata implemented in Newton to also implement the OSvif for example so Nova can ask Neutron give me the port and the version of its service and Neutron can respond with the version that is currently running so it's kind of backward compatibility at this level cross project integration Any more questions? Thank you


Look what's arrived. Pesto is very pleased with it. Chris has got a Cintiq. How exciting. Look what I got I got this print from Redbubble. It's Dean's tiny house. I love it It's really cool. The cats are like, what have you got for us? Nothing. She looks really like, what is this?  She's my little buddy, my plastic inspector. I can show all the plastic is correctly chewable She's waiting for the scraps. Yeah, she's like, when can I dine on this plastic? I can chew. No, no, no Pesto Enough with you. Yeah, well Chris for the scissors, please wave them near her face So they get unboxing It's Pesto, yes A bit of a dent there. Oh, not impressed. Oh, has that like that fresh like expensive box smell? He does doesn't it? Has that like new laptop smell kind of? I want to open it just in case I want to return the box or whatever. Return the box? I mean like in the future if I want to replace it, I want to have the box. Fine. You want to cut it, please? I'm not even gonna see to you like just cut it. Whoa, Pesto, calm down. Calm down Pesto. Jesus Okay, she needs to calm herself. She's like just get it open. Oh Give it bigger. Instant disappointment. Plastic spoiled brat Let me feel. Oh smooth silicone. No jank. Like yours Name. Get off the sink. Whoa. She was like, thank you for my new bed has arrived. Out of here. Pesto. Get in that one. Don't like that one. Yeah, you can probably sit on that one Is she trying to eat a Pesto Don't don't do that. Oh, what's all these? Trinkets. Trinkets. Oh, they're just a hundred cables Why do you need all those cables? It's like it's like extra cables and like links and power cables Well, then maybe you should leave them in the box. So you know that. Get the ball out. Okay. Oh I like that. Is that the pen holder? Yeah, you can put it on the top. Cool And what's this? That's the pen holder as well Yeah, it's a pen holder as well. Yeah, and you can open it and it's got spare nibs inside. Very nice What do you think Pesto? Read it out of ten. Read it out of ten She gives it a five Not enough plastic for her to chow down on Good morning everybody for today. I just do like a little chatty vlog thing because I miss doing that And yeah, this is where my desk is now because I had to move it here Sorry Pesto was scratching or so for I had to move it here next to the window so I could get some good light Move some stuff around so I could film over here So I just want to do like some chill videos this week and I hope that's okay I'm just going to draw something work on my horror comic So what I'm working on right now is a horror comic I wanted to work on a horror comic for a long time But I think I've always been intimidated by it because yeah, I think I've explained this already a bit I think it's a very hard story to put across and I'm super intimidated still But yesterday I let everybody know that I'm doing it via Instagram and I posted This image which is the working title Emily is burning But I might change the word Emily because I'm pretty sure I got it from this the author of this through the words Emily because I was sitting here going. Oh, what's a good name? And then I was like, oh, maybe and Emily. Yeah, and then I wrote it down and then I looked to my left I was like, oh, I wonder where I got that from the so this is a horror comic by Emily Carroll You probably know her she has a lot of stuff online And her online stuff is amazing because like her websites They they're working a way that they do different stuff as you read the comic So it kind of it's very creepy and yeah, these are just comics from online But they're all horror and they're great and I thought I just Really look at that for some inspiration. I also got some inspiration from joy sand I will link her youtube down below And you guys I've mentioned her before but maybe you haven't seen her stuff, but she's really cool She's really nice vlogs relax like chilled vlogs that are very inspiring and her work is So it's very inspired by her because she has a lot of really cool horror comics One in particular stood out which is really gory and I don't know if I'm going to do a lot of gore in Mine, but I also I still don't know yet So there's that and if all what I do today is just because I was drawing some scenes I was drawing some houses So I was thinking I was thinking that I would just sit here and draw some houses for you guys Because this is me trying to find a style and I really like the way that this pencil looks with copics But it's really it's funny because it's just It's like a really old pencil from this place called the early learning center And I don't know if you have that where you are But it's basically just a place For toys that you buy for like toddlers and stuff, but like learning devices and things So this is probably like really old pencil either from me or Chris's house But it feels really nice like on this paper. It's really um like smooth. So there you go I was like, yeah keeping that like in my secret pencil case Secret. I don't know why it's the secret But I'm just gonna do all some stuff for you guys and I hope that's okay Like I said, it's just having a bit of a We so I just want to chill with y'all I have a lot of zini type comics from comic cons that go to like elka I really like going to which is london east london comic con But they always have very high standard of stuff if I go there I'm just like I want that that that and it's difficult. It's difficult just looking through different things I don't know. I think like I'm still trying to find a style that is a set style for myself Chris says anything I do is my style. So there's no such thing But I feel like I if I want to be an illustrator then I definitely need a portfolio of work that is Distinct, but I guess you can't force anything either. So I'm just you know on my little art journey there I'm really drawn to stuff that looks simple and simplified. So I'm really trying to do that and like steer myself away from That's a bag. That's not a comic um Steer myself away from being so rigid in my drawings because sometimes I really can be and I If anybody knows any exercises for like loosening up Before you draw then let me know I think one that really used to work for me was in live drawing when we do like a 30 second drawing Pose and then you do 10 seconds of 5 seconds And always the ones that you didn't really care about that much like the end drawings would always be The best ones and convey something that the other drawings didn't for me anyway Well, this is a something I got from flow magazine I'm pretty sure Franard was recently in that thing But this one was about lettering and I knew that was like my weak point So I bought this just to help me practice and learn some things And I think it's been a really cool cool thing to have around actually So yeah, let's get started on the the drawing. I need to find an image on Pinterest because these are both from Pinterest and This one is so I'm gonna do one here I really like the way these colors work out like a washed out color scheme might be quite Good, and then if there's any blood or anything it could be like BAM in your face BAM blood Don't know what I'm saying I'm gonna get my iPad so we can look at Pinterest stuff. Okay, so I got some creepy house References here. Sorry. There was like a hair cat hair Standard my life all these cats around I mean I've seen most of these before and some of them are a bit too complicated because what I want my story to be Is that there's this woman and she's recently divorced And in the settlement she got a little bit of money So she's buying either a derelict house or she's renting a house or something She's just like I'll take it and yeah It sounds a bit generic, but that is where my the bones of my story are at right now I need to do some writing later because that one's cool with the trees Okay, so I'm gonna set this up over here so I can see it I don't know what my voice is about like your hair. I've never done a real time Drawing with you guys. So this will be fun. Listen to sharpening. What's my sharpener? I left it in the other room Okay, I'm back and I bought two sharpeners just in case I'm pretty worried to sharpen this because I think because this pencil is so old that it's just gonna break apart It's very it feels very bristle. I'm gonna be careful with that stuff Okay, and I know you can find like smooth black pencils anywhere, but something about the quality of this one Maybe it's the the 10 years it has on its age I don't know what I'm saying. Okay. What I was gonna say is the story I've had this idea in my head and I kind of know how it finishes which is always a bonus because if you finish If you have the ending then you can write to it But if you just write freely towards an ending you can sometimes get lost and a bit like stuck I mean forward writing it can be done. I think there's lots of people who do that Stephen King is a great person who's done that When he wrote the green mile he would write Just episodes weekly or monthly. I think it was weekly for this magazine who were paying him um, what happened was that he He just wrote it out straight, so he didn't even know where it was going So can you imagine just writing out a story Episode by episode and not being able to go back and changing anything. I think that's crazy, you know something that shows his His talent because that story is really cool if you've read it or Seen the film you would know that it's really good story And how do you come up with that and keep everything concise and I don't know. Yeah, very impressed. I'm always impressed by Stephen King. I think he's just always working always has stories out some of them are better than others but still that Keeping up that schedule of just work work work And I think like he always says this thing like if you're a writer then you would be writing every day, but And I agree I agree But I think everybody goes through ruts and self-doubt and I think you know if somebody's if you have like A big audience saying like you're really good at writing and buying all your stuff and you have time and You know, you can spend your time um creating writings and books then of course you're gonna be like, yeah, I'm gonna write every day. I'm a writer I think that's Easier than it's somebody who's struggling To confirm whether or not they are any good or they're just starting out and Don't know what to do. You know, like I think all these factors play into it So I don't think anybody should be so hard on themselves if they don't write every day or draw every day, etc Everybody does things that they're in pace, right? So Yeah, that's my excuse for not writing every day I think I kind of do write every day though because It it's not literally sitting down typing at the computer but I do I why I've stopped doing my comics for this month to do this But I think you are storytelling within drawing and I think it sounds a bit bizarre, but I feel like If you're creative you have a sort of Pool of creativity and if you use it up on something in that day, it goes down So if I was to write then I would probably feel like empty of energy to draw Does anybody else have like that kind of thing? There's a helicopter now passing. So I'm just gonna be quiet for a sec It's still there, but it's quiet Is it quiet? See, there's all the things I have to contend with daily when I'm trying to film This is the best spot in the house to film because of the light And I only recently figured that out because I'm dumb But yeah, I can't afford a big light setup So I have to resort to natural lighting next to my open window and moving my whole labor room around Yep And yeah, so writing I need to I need to get to the bones Of this story. I have the ending Like I said, but I want to bulk out the characters make them believable I think character is everything in a story if you don't have believable character You don't have a believable Non-cliche kind of character then it's not gonna be interesting for anybody. Everyone won't believe your story They'll just think yeah, this is a story and they won't really get into it. So you need to make Really believable characters and not just like stereotypical characters For instance this Uh story I was like, okay, she's gonna be a divorcee And at one point I thought like oh, I have her sitting at the computer Like I was seeing this scene in my head and actually drew it out a little bit of her Sorry about the dog See you see what I'm talking about. Usually I don't talk to the camera. So I it's I can just ignore the noises That this is dog city as well my whole block of flats There's a block of flat behind us and a block of flats down there and they all have dogs And they all set each other off.  Anyway, okay. I'm just going to talk. Um Yeah, I thought like oh, I'll have a little scene here Just testing out different character styles and stuff of her sitting at the table drinking wine and maybe looking at her ex-husband with a girlfriend on facebook or something and then I was like That's a bit cliche. I don't know like if I want to go that route at all.  I don't know who she is yet. That's the problem I don't know who my character is.  I might do that exercise and Get to know her a little bit better because at the moment. I just have the bones of story and what happens to her within this House that she rents beyond that. I'm not really sure Where it's going. So I need to bulk the story out. Definitely, which can be quite tough for sure I posted online that I'm doing this I was kind of surprised by the interest in it a lot of people who don't usually comment on my other comics We're really like, oh, yeah, I want to see this and and stuff. So I was like, oh Okay, no pressure then. Well, it's not really that much pressure, but There's a massive tree here. So I'm going to draw the tree in the front And yeah, so I like I said, I'm very intimidated by this project and idea I want it to go well. I want to do a good story And it's the first time in like a year and a half that I've given myself time to work on something That isn't my slice of life comic So I wanted just to do something completely different style because my slice of life comic. I wasn't really I love doing it. I love Making that comic, but I think every day Doing that same style. I'm not really learning anything. I'm not really Um adapting or finding new new styles or building Myself art wise. Does that make sense? I think I just got stuck in a bit of a rut of doing that every day So I'm glad that I gave myself a little bit of time off to Work on this but then within that there's a lot of pressure because My one big income for me is the patron that I have for the slice of life comic and obviously I didn't feel fair Charging people when I wouldn't be making them every day So I've like stopped the payment for that. So there's also that added pressure of like, well Don't waste that money. Like I'm basically paying So that makes sense basically paying to work on this But not really because I don't you know, it's not like a massive massive deal But it is for me. I don't owe very much money. So that's a big thing for me to do Trying to get into Finding ways to earn a bit more a bit more cash. I think This is really weird because this tree is actually going behind the house But it's so big that it looks it looked like it was going in front of it So now I've kind of messed it up Yeah, so feeling a bit like a bit down this week to be honest with you guys because I feel like It's really easy to compare yourself to others and be like, oh these these artists are Doing this making this and they're doing really well. And then there's me just kind of flandering around a little bit Not really sure what i'm doing. Um, I feel like with my videos as well I feel like I haven't done vlog stuff for a while, which is What I wanted to do when I first started this channel So this type of video is kind of refreshing for me because this is more the stuff that I want to do But I don't think it's necessarily that entertaining So I have to watch myself a little bit and my friend was saying she works for the vna in london the museum And she was saying they had like a big talk about how audiences affect Artists and how they like sway them to do stuff and Oh not sway them to do stuff that sounds a bit Bit dramatic there, doesn't it how they sway them to kind of go in a certain direction with their work That they usually wouldn't which I think is fine Like I think people can affect you to change and do different things that you necessarily wouldn't have done before I think that's great, but I feel like too much of that can be bad and you want to be authentic and yourself and stuff I don't know. I do enjoy doing my other videos I think it just takes away time from this kind of work, which I would love to share with you more So let me know if you like watching me do this kind of stuff Because that would be really helpful Yeah, because I miss doing this I miss just vlogging and Chatting with you guys The community is so cool with you guys at the moment.  I think is what I'm trying to say I like the the vibe that we have and I don't want that to change. There we go. That's That's what I'm trying to say this pen as well these um Pro markers because they're alcohol based. I think they're alcohol based Yeah, alcohol based they kind of smudge the Pencil and I'm not sure if I like that effect or not yet, but it's kind of cool Like it could kind of work with this style Trying to find a style for a comic. So whenever I start a project I think I will sit down and I will look at inspiration for like a while gather them up in my brain and try and See what I like about it and try to analyze everything What I like about it what I don't like about it what could work And then I just sit down I start drawing out concepts So any sort of situations a character might be in even if I don't have the character down just sort of drawing Someone similar to what she might look like is good and then doing environments. Obviously just house fronts aren't going to be that um useful in the sense of a whole comic but I feel like within my story the house might be sort of a character as well within itself So I wanted to get the house Down you know in my mind of what it would look like and I was really thinking like It would be quite cool if it's kind of a dilapidated mansion So she's received this money from the divorce and she might buy this rundown mansion because that's all that's all she can afford But also it's also a good like buy to buy a mansion It's quite she's quite lucky to have gotten that So I can see that kind of being like maybe cut off a little bit from the rest of the world because she will cut herself off But I also feel that I don't really want my power character to be so affected by the divorce I kind of want her to be like whatever about it a little bit and I'm not sure yet Like I said, I need to write I have the bones of the story I have the outline so to speak because I have the ending and I have the beginning But then just to get there like the journey from a to b I need to figure out And I think I really kind of like this kind of style of house I think this one's too obvious like they're too obviously like oh spooky house Whereas this one is like, well, it could be nice, you know, you do it up and stuff where I feel that My character would be like, yep. I want that I can focus on doing this by myself fixing this up This one's kind of cool, but it reminds me a bit of a farmhouse. Maybe that one's off the list But it's good to explore all these different options From this point on I have to sit down and do the hard work of typing out the story I think I'm gonna do it as in like a panel you type out panel and what's happening in the panel Actually, I'll show you this is my old graphic novel. Please don't judge the art too harshly It's probably about seven six years old now, which is crazy to me And I'm always really proud of this because it's just a big amount of work that I accomplished. So let's just peek in I really like the color schemes that I did. I wanted each chapter to be kind of um have a different color scheme but on the same sort of Spectrum, I don't know if that makes sense looking back at it. I'm like, oh, I don't like this style I don't like that about it, but I also Really really proud of it because it's a lot of work, right? This is what I did for my masters. It's basically like a thesis, but in comic style Some things I do like and I learn a lot doing this you can learn a lot by doing So if you're afraid to start something out, then you should just go for it And then you try it out and you learn this was my script for that This was I wrote all this out and my friend taught us how to bind Papers like this. So what you do is you write panel What number it is then you write Oh this paragraph of what is in the scene And then if there's a person then you write them there and then the dialogue now This works for me because I knew that that is the way that I laid it out and used to have the page number So this is literally this would be if that makes sense. So if I turn to page, I don't know Seven here, obviously, I'm not going to undertake a massive project like this for the the horror comic. It's going to be a short but yeah So this is this is this page. This is panel 37 38 39 40 41 and 42 and whatever they say here is said here, you know Really helpful because this was basically my bible whilst I was doing this project Because I would take this page and then I would do thumbnails of this and then I would transfer it to a bigger thing And this having this really really helped. So I suggest if anybody undertakes a project of a comic then definitely do a script because I don't think I could have gotten through What I was doing without this because I could see a finish line And I could I had everything planned out to the final detail. So it was really helpful So today I'm going to try and do that for this horror comic. So lots of writing ahead So that has been this videos Friday's videos. Um, I guess it's a vlog video. I hope you don't mind I think this casual video is really nice for me to just talk through some things that's happening and helps me Direct myself towards what I want to accomplish over the month I'm also going to be doing a month vlog about this horror comic So you will see that hopefully at the end of the month and you'll see my processes I'm trying to film a little clip each day, and I hope it won't be too choppy So we'll see you will see I'll link everything that I've mentioned down below in the description But I hope you guys are having a great day and have a great weekend and I will see you next time guys. Bye


Hello and welcome to the session. In this session we are going to discuss the following question which says that evaluate tan of 2 tan inverse of 3 by 4 minus pi by 4. We know that 2 tan inverse of x is equal to tan inverse of 2x upon 1 minus x square where modulus of x is less than 1. Also tan inverse of x minus tan inverse of y is equal to tan inverse of x minus y upon 1 plus xy xy is greater than minus 1. With this key idea we shall proceed with the solution. We have the expression tan of 2 tan inverse of 3 by 4 minus pi by 4. First let us solve 2 tan inverse of 3 by 4. From the key idea we know that 2 tan inverse of x is equal to tan inverse of 2x upon 1 minus x square where modulus of x is less than 1. Therefore 2 tan inverse of 3 by 4 will be equal to tan inverse of 2 into 3 by 4 upon 1 minus 3 by 4 the whole square. Also modulus of 3 by 4 is less than 1. So we have 2 tan inverse of 3 by 4 is equal to tan inverse of 3 by 2 upon 1 minus 9 upon 16 which implies that 2 tan inverse of 3 by 4 is equal to tan inverse of 3 by 2 by 16 minus 9 by 16 which further implies that 2 tan inverse of 3 by 4 is equal to tan inverse of 3 by 2 upon 7 by 16 which is equal to 2 tan inverse of 3 by 4 is equal to tan inverse of 3 by 2 into 16 by 7 which implies that 2 tan inverse of 3 by 4 is equal to tan inverse of 24 by 7. Now replace the value of 2 tan inverse of 3 by 4 with tan inverse of 24 by 7. In the given expression we get tan of tan inverse of 24 by 7 minus pi by 4 which we can write as tan of tan inverse of 24 by 7 minus tan inverse of 1 as tan pi by 4 is equal to 1 so tan inverse of 1 is equal to pi by 4. Mark this equation as A. Now let us simplify tan inverse of 24 by 7 minus tan inverse of 1 using the key idea which says that tan inverse of x minus tan inverse of y is equal to tan inverse of x minus y upon 1 plus xy if xy is greater than minus 1. So we have tan inverse of 24 by 7 minus tan inverse of 1 is equal to tan inverse of 24 by 7 minus 1 upon 1 plus 24 by 7 into 1 and 24 by 7 is greater than minus 1 which implies that tan inverse of 24 by 7 minus tan inverse of 1 is equal to tan inverse of 24 minus 7 by 7 upon 1 plus 24 by 7 which further implies that tan inverse of 24 by 7 minus tan inverse of 1 is equal to tan inverse of 17 upon 7 whole upon 7 plus 24 by 7 which implies that tan inverse of 24 by 7 minus tan inverse of 1 is equal to tan inverse of 17 upon 31. Now substitute the value of tan inverse of 24 by 7 minus tan inverse of 1 in A we get an of tan inverse of 17 by 31 which is equal to 17 upon 31. Therefore the value of the expression tan of 2 tan inverse of 3 by 4 minus pi by 4 is equal to 17 by 31 which is the required answer. This completes our session hope you enjoyed this session.