en's first, whilst we figure it out or what we put in place, we have to ensure that we're not even maybe worst in the situation for a child. Well, exactly. Yes, that's very true. And being involved in conflict, of course, is very bad for children. And everybody, I mean, I think that's general knowledge now, but of course, there's lots and lots of research to support that. But if children are exposed to their parents' arguments, that has a really negative effect on them, a long-term impact. So there's a move to try and stop that. OK, well, it's good to see it being discussed and it's good to see this webinar is coming up. Solutions for Parental Alienation is part of the focus of the discussion. On Monday, the 20th of June at 6pm, you can go to eventbrite or alienated.ie for more information. Dr. Denise McCartney, thank you very much for joining us. Thanks, Greg. Take care of yourself. Bye-bye, OK. It's a complex one, isn't it? And there's different points of views. Louise Cooks, an independent researcher, and joins us now. Hi, Louise. Oh, hi there. Am I on? You are. You're live with Greg here. Good morning to you. Oh, excellent. I've never been on the radio before. No problem. All right, Louise. What are your concerns? Well, so what I'm saying is nobody sensible argues that mothers never unreasonably or maliciously obstruct contact between fathers and children following separation and divorce. But the international evidence, particularly Joan Mayer's research from the United States and certainly my own experience researching this, reveals that parental alienation ideology is used overwhelmingly by abusive, controlling and dangerous men to silence the voice of the children and cast themselves as the true victims and the protected mothers as perpetrators of serious emotional child abuse. But if that is our starting point, Louise, right, then if we are going to look at this and because you don't want this to happen, I don't want it to happen, then we have to deal with that and weed that out as part of this process too. Don't we rather than that just being a hardened position from us to begin with? Yes, you're probably right, Louise. You've done the research. But just fixing that need not to be part of this process and that makes this process worthwhile. Well, if you look at the actual parental alienation ideology and where it came from, it came from a man in New Jersey called Richard Gardner who had some very, very disturbing ideas.   I mean, we don't accept that, Louise. Well, well, no, no, no, because a lot of these parental alienation experts actually still explicitly or implicitly follow Gardner's rules, okay, and Gardner's ideology.  And that fellow's got a problem. He's got a problem if that becomes that point of view. But I know there's a psychotherapist who says on her blog that she's working in Ireland. She's from England. And she is a follower of the Gardner ideology. Right, well, let's let's us say, for instance, we get down a different route. Let's just talk about two situations. If there's two people listening to us right now. One is a situation where, and we'll go with the mom and versus the dad for the purpose of this example. So a mom and dad split up, right? Parents split up and it was, it wasn't an amicable split up, but the man's a very good man and loving father. And the woman is a good mom and a loving mom. But because of that breakup, okay, she maybe wants to punish the father and withholds access to that child. I think we could both agree that that's not good for the child and needs to be looked at. Second scenario, second scenario, which is one you're probably talking to, a woman was in an abusive relationship. She left the partner.  Two very different situations. Surely we should have a system whereby for the child in the first case, they get access to both parents and it's good for everyone. In the second case, keep that man as much as is possible out of that child's life. And then we approach it like that there and we weed out the type of stuff that you're talking about, dismiss that, but we realize and recognize that there is a problem and what's best for the child is for us to find a way to fix that without throwing in maybe the extremes with respect, Louise. Well, you certainly do not want to throw out the baby with the bath water because as I said, I do not deny, nobody sensible denies that this can happen. But what is happening is that these parental alienation experts, some of them are unregulated and I know that there are some unregulated ones working in Northern Ireland and I believe in the Republic of Ireland over from England, but also regulated ones sometimes. They hold to an ideology which is very problematic. Yeah, and we have to write that out. No more sold to Louise than we have heard awful cases of charities that we send money to and they go out and help people, allegedly help people. They most of them do very well in far-flung countries, but that is used as a means to buy someone that they've been before the courts to actually not help children but to abuse them. But that does not mean that we still don't have very good children charities that we support. Do you get where I'm coming from? It's the emotive arguments, Louise. I just don't think we get anywhere. Yeah, it's incredibly, incredibly complicated and but I need to draw your attention to the international stuff on this. So if I just explain to you that internationally, people are starting to come out against this because, as Denise said, it is an international problem but she's approaching it from the other perspective of, oh, it's a problem. And we're saying this ideology is becoming a worldwide threat to women and children. Parental alienation ideology is explicitly condemned by the United Nations special rapporteur on violence against women. The United Nations Committee for the Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women to which Ireland is a state party and the Council of Europe Istanbul Convention to which Ireland is a state party. Now, there is a group of experts with the acronym GREVIO which monitors the implementation of the Istanbul Convention in all the countries that have ratified the convention. Each country has to undergo an evaluation by GREVIO. Ireland is about to undergo its own evaluation and Ireland is going to be absolutely hammered in the GREVIO report, particularly if Helen Mackenty, the Justice Minister, decides to criminalise so-called parental alienation, effectively criminalising mothers for supporting and protecting their children. Or fathers as well because it's not specific to mothers. Well, I need to point out that Denise is saying, yes, yes, yes, it's gender-neutral, we shouldn't exactly say that. That is a core plank of the ideology and more of the campaigning and the lobbying that they say it's gender-neutral. It is not gender-neutral. Last summer, Spain outlawed the use of parental alienation ideology by all public bodies following a damning critique from the United Nations and the semi-autonomous government of Catalonia in the northeast of Spain formally recognised the use of parental alienation ideology as state violence against women. The Italian Supreme Court last year ruled the Court of Parental Alienation Ideology inadmissible. And I was not convinced. When I started looking at this two years ago, I was not convinced. I was sceptical because, like anybody else, everybody knows women who behave inadvisably in a case of separation or divorce. It can become messy. Nobody denies that. However, what convinced me was going on Twitter and being subjected to the most horrendous abuse. OK, I'll have threats, trolling, malicious complaints. Not just me. OK, I've had malicious complaints made about me, about my mental health, about me to the police. Yeah, OK, I guess. And this happens to the London Victims Committee. And I'm not diminishing that at all, but Twitter is a cesspit in any case. We're trying to Twitter is a cesspit that these people go beyond that. They are incredibly aggressive. I understand. Any academic who stands up against this gets vexatious complaints made to their employers. And people try to hound them out of their jobs. They're incredibly aggressive. And that's really actually entrenched. I don't want to say I'm entrenched. I know, but you see, the problem is, and this was from the start off, is it's difficult because obviously, your conversation was talking a bit about the ideology and talking about some of them that might push it, might be involved in child abuse or something along those lines, right? And then they, from the other side, will say some of the accusations against you and it gets us nowhere. Like the word parental alienation, maybe if we had a different way of describing it and move forward in that direction, if so much negativity has been associated with that terminology, all I want is that what's best for children? What's best for children is absolutely, but if people are having a real problem in their separation and they're so angry and ranker us towards each other that they need help, but they're basically both acting in good faith and they are capable of putting their children first with help, I absolutely accept that they should be getting assistance. But people, I'm sorry to say, people who specialise specifically in parental alienation are usually linked with... I understand, we have with the sweeping statements because like there's some people involved in this movement in Donegal that may have none of the connections or probably don't have that you talk of, but I understand... I suspect I know of them all and I would be able to provide substantially... Well, OK, I don't know precisely who you're talking about, but anyway, Louise, thanks for your time this morning, Louise Cook there, to say I just... That issue is... There's very strong views on both sides there and you're trying to get down the middle, but it's very, very difficult as you can hear. All right, sir, we heard two sides to it there anyway. The 90 Noon Show is brought to you by Letter Kenny Credit Union with monster loans available up to 60,000 euro for all occasions. Visit letterkennycu.ie Start playing NCBI Radio Bingo today. 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But then things changed. What happened? Yeah, do you know what? I was trying to find out that from the Aramaa ones yesterday. Was it a tactical change from the line or was it just how the game kind of evolved? Because in that period you're talking about, after that goal, Donegal were absolutely brilliant. There was space over the pitch. The match itself was brilliant from a neutral perspective. You know, we are from Donegal fans and very few Donegal fans are again yesterday. And I'm just wondering how much of that was the style of play from the Ulster final. But it wasn't a huge crowd, that Ulster final, particularly, you know, look Dairy on the way up, Aaron Aramaa on the way up, completely outnumbered us. But whatever fans were in front of us, I was covering a game we read in Ulster yesterday. There was a lot of Donegal fans in that Gery Arthur stand. And they were getting really vocal. And I think as much as they were excited by what Donegal was doing, the game itself was brilliant because after the horror show of the Ulster final, we suddenly had an end to end game. The best of schools we've seen at Donegal in that period where he had six points in a row, almost went 10-5 up. It was nine points to one-two. And you thought, wow, this Donegal team is coming again. But after that, great, the swing. Well, what was the swing? Because early on, you know, Aramaa weren't scoring. I think they scored just the goal in the first 10 minutes. There were, you know, two scores in the first 15, 20 minutes, maybe a bit more than that. But Donegal seemed to be scoring quite freely. And then the tables turned. Yeah, if you go back to, I suppose, the two previous games against Aramaa, and then Lerner-Kinney towards the end of that match, Aramaa sent on their better players, squeezed up on Donegal, and really put the panics on our kick-out. And I lost boxing. Should have actually won that game, Lerner-Kinney. I was looking at that going into Balbuffet then, I thought this could be, these boys are going to be hard to work with, you know, championship should be different, but they're going to be hard to work with. But when Aramaa came to Balbuffet, they played with fear. Because Donegal's record, they think at Balbuffet, they wanted to maybe work themselves in the game. They allowed us for a kick-out, and they didn't go for us in terms of what they did at the weekend. Now, so we beat them by seven points. Now, bear in mind, we lost by 10. That's a 17 points win, Greg, which is unbelievable. You think a two to close all-star teams. The fact that we beat them so well, and the fact that we got hammered in the end yesterday. But when they squeezed up on us, going physically with Dallas, you look at our back line, we don't have physical power at the back. And when they went for us, and even went for us all over the pitch, and we talked about our midfield dominance the last day against Aramaa, Jason McGee, and Felsi, I guess, had a brilliant game, you know? With so much hype when he looked at Langan and Murphy coming out on it. But I think they're just attitude towards the kick-out and squeezing up on us when they went long, they hoarse us all around the pitch. I mean, if you look at Falker did to Murphy in terms of how he was all over them. And the same me, Morgan and Connelly Spurs, they were getting about her lads. And when her lads got in there 45, after that 20-minute period, there was two or three Aramaa wins round them. At the other end of the pitch, Aramaa were mixing up their game with kicking. But one-on-one, every Aramaa forward could engage in their defenders. We don't have physical power, we just don't have it. Yeah, but you have the ability to look at this in a far more analytical and informed way than I do as a former player in all. But the black card seemed to be a turning point for me, right? And I obviously don't know enough about the game. But what I thought would you not in that situation is put an outfield player that's already on the pitch in the goal, right? And sort of try and limit any damage till you get to halftime and get back to full complement. Instead of taking inferential players off, using up three substitutions to sort of make that happen. For me, as a safe as someone who doesn't know as much as you do, that seemed to be a turning point. And what would have the logic have been there? Well, I think the turning point was more, listen, that we didn't learn from our kickouts against Deri. The game swung for me with short kickouts that Deri squeezed up in us. And it happened again. And the thing I suppose the most worrying about is, the first one we got away with, Keeley-Marth somehow saved when Aramaa burned down goals. There was a man inside, Keeley-Marth saved it with his leg, so we got away with it. The next kickout, we went short again, but Cole loses it, three Aramaa boys converge on him. The ball ends up with that whole incident. So your black card would lose a keeper penalty, right? So that, why we didn't go long with that next kickout is because when Lynch come on straight away and furnished him, he goes right, put the ball out long, Langen ones the ball, out the pitch, calls the mark, we end up getting a free and we get a score. So that's, I suppose, a lot of fans will think, why would we chance going short? Because if we lose it out the pitch, we're not going to concede a goal. Now, we did get that last point then, and we didn't have time four points down. I thought we were lucky to be four down because Aramaa really went at us. But then the start of that second half is where I think the tail was tall because we're going to go against Derry, the last day of going on the point at the start of the second half. This time, we conceded two quick ones and then we conceded another, it was three points in a row. And at that point, we were really thinking, you know, we're, no, a few times, our boys didn't come back, they did try. But you're talking about Aramaa switching it up, right? Yeah. And a lot of people were sort of critical, say, for instance, towards the end of the Derry game that we didn't switch it up to suit what was happening on the pitch at that time and the score positions at that time. Like, are we lacking the ability or the motivation to change mid-game or in phases of play when it's the right time to do it? We're a bit better team yesterday. Sometimes you've got to just hold your hands. So there's no point in analysing it at all then? Well, I'll tell you this, you can analyse all you want. Everybody's playing the same way to a degree, right? And what Aramaa did is, physically, they had too much power for us and they had too much pace. And when the man to the man on our back, and we can't handle power like that, we just couldn't handle it. You look at Ri and O'Neill, the point that he had in the second half, he was dovetailing around. He was like a senior player playing in another 16-game. No one could get near him. And at the end of the day, or blanket defence, sometimes because teams have backed off us. You look at Derry in many ways, he's now backed off us. They didn't actually go for a jugular until they went for those kickouts. And Aramaa looked at that and realised that in Balbuffet, they didn't go for us. So when they went for us in, we were shaking. Right, so the Donegal puzzle then has been solved. What next then? Well, we need to on earth a few powerful players at the back like this. And physicality is one of the biggest things in GA now. And I just say that particularly with our defenders at the back, we're not able to handle. Everyone in Aramaa was causing their players one-on-one trouble at the back. And I think at the other end of the pitch, when McBurdy or Murphy or anybody got the ball, there's three or four of our mass players swarming around them. So the only way you get around not having physical power is to be swarming players and everybody tackling. We didn't have enough of that happening. So you talked about our kickouts there, right? Donegal's kickouts, sorry I should say. A decision was made at some point to for us to start doing short kickouts or to stick with that strategy. Who makes that call? Is it the goalie? Well, it has to be down to Pat. Now, the two kicks before them short ones were both won by Aramaa when we went long. So these things really, you're not really blaming this. Pat was one of the things. I'm not blaming anyone, by the way. It's just to... If we've lost two, we need to go short to get possession, to get ourselves a bit more back into the game. So it's not to say that it's a right or wrong decision. You know, the two ones went long, we're lost. And then the two short ones, the only difference is to say, if they go out, the pitch will be losing. At least you're grouped down there. That you're not going to concede a goal because both of them... But that call's made on the pitch, for example. And the only reason I'm asking these questions is to try and sort of have the same conversation as people had in the pub last night or around lunch. You know what I mean? Try and get to the... There's a deeper thing here, Greg. If you really want to look at where football's at, now, don't go all to me playing the same way they're playing. A lot of teams are playing it now. In terms of everybody dropping back and going forward, they just look a bit jaded. Mollin looked the same. Turun, I think, got a lift off their management last year, but they looked the same again this year. And if you look at the two teams that are coming with all the energy, Derry and Aramaa, because they've been down there for so long. So I think that energy of them, teams on the way back up, is driving them. So do you think, then, we should maintain the current setup and we need to look for more physical players in certain positions, because I'm not going to don't want to sort of add to it, but you know yourself what a lot of people feel should happen. Maybe a change of management, but from what you're saying, you don't seem to think or do. You don't put words in your mouth that it's the tools you have to work with. So what's your feeling as to the future? We've got a long time now, unfortunately, to reflect on this. Do you want to see things kept as they are and go out and search for the players that you talk of? Or does it need a fresh pair of eyes? So I don't know, what? As I suppose, there's always a bounce off a freshener. I just think that it'd be very difficult, I think, to take the bonus decision to do it. And it's something because the weight of what take the bonus put into GA in this world, we have to give the man his respect. One of the best underage players from right back to his youth, don't think I've ever had. We've given an awful lot. Then through his whole playing days to all his management underage, twice to his senior. So listen, I'm not going to say anything to take a bonus around what he wants to do. That's his decision. Listen, everybody's playing in a similar fashion. It really comes down to the players that you have at your disposal. And if you think back to your brilliant teams of the past, when Neil and him and McGee, Frank McGann, Karelassie and these boys were in their pump, we don't really have those type of players in there at the minute. And that's just the way it is. I think the blanket defense of some ways with players dropping back, masks, what we have been when a team really goes for it, and they have the quality of grooving, grugging, Steph and Karelassie and Neil, those players are top top. Do you think those involved in the game that likes yourself, and I say this with absolute respect, Brendan, are circling the wagons a little bit, right? And having a different conversation to what the general public is? Well, I don't know what conversation I'm having with because there's nobody there just to be supporting Donagall. And you're upset about that? There's another thing, well, I'm a bit disappointed with the crowd that came the last couple of days, but then I couldn't blame them after the last final because it was so poor. But the Donagall fans, particularly in that first half, would actually love what was happening there from a football perspective. You've seen a game start to happen. It just then, our match took over so much, it was hard, it was very difficult for you to be a Donagall fan in the second half, but we've seen glimpses of what we can do. We have individual brilliance in our team. Greg, we just, Armah and Derry played like two very together cohesive teams. Credit to them too, yeah? We play in Futs and Stars, Greg, and we don't have that cohesion that those teams have. And we've no right to victories either, you know? I mean, we have to give the opposition credit where it's due as well because they... They were top-class yesterday. Listen, look at it now, Greg. The balance of power is switching. Derry and I beat the three big teams in Ulster, the three Division I teams that were Ulster dominating. Derry beat the three of them. Now Armah have beat two of them in us and Theron. So you'd have to say those three, those five matches were all well-deserved. Greg, you'd have to say Armah and Derry are certainly, and what they're doing are on the way up. And at the minute, by question mark of where we're Donagall's at, the question mark is where Marlon's at. And like Theron, what happened to Rhone this year? So it's not as if we're the only ones in this boat, you know? Armah will go in his favourites against Goalway. That'll be a good game, would you agree? Yeah, certainly. I think that's a draw they would have been happy with. Derry versus Clare, Clare were involved in the next game of the week. Yeah, Smash and Grab, they were five points down a couple of months to go. There's something about Clare, real, real plucky side. You really love them in Championship. They're a never-say-die team. So the game will change now very much when it goes to Crow Park. But I think that'll suit a team like Armah. I think they'll revel in Crow Park, not so much Derry. I think it could hamper Derry's progress, getting into a big fast-playing pitch. They play that defensive. But certainly, the way Armah played yesterday in terms of going for a team, that'll suit a game in Crow Park. Well, look, the DL debate's going to be very interesting this evening, as it always is. There's a lot to unpack there. And it's interesting in that it'll... There's an interesting cut, as I said, about the conversations going on. It'll be interesting to hear how aligned the conversation that you have this evening is to sort of, you know, the type of stuff people are saying as well. Do you get where I'm coming from there? It's very easy, just to say, all tactics, or we should have done this or should have done that. At the end of the day, we're completely outplayed by Armah after that opening 20 minutes. So sometimes that happens in football. The problem is with Donegal, I think, because of the manner of the poor, austere final game and defeat, it's left a bit of a cloud was hanging over us. And I think you've seen a bit of a spark. You've seen Michael Murphy was pumped up. A lot of criticism came out of Donegal. And they did give it their all in that first half. But as I say, physically, Armah just clamped us on. And how you deal with that, Greg, you've got to fight power with power. We hadn't got enough power yesterday, and I think that's what is coming down there. All right, listen, brilliant stuff. The show's on after the seven o'clock news this evening. It's Aaron Kearney, Kevin Cassie, Keith Duggan of the Irish Times, and of course, Romo Donald. Donegal ladies, of course, winning. They flew the flag for us, beating the water for us. It's squeaky bomb time towards the end, but not a bad game of football. That's it, they were six points up when they came back, and so fair play to Max and him. Another tough trip they're playing. Cork in the second group game this week. So we've morrowed online as well to give us our views on that, and they will continue to keep the championship flag flying for us. Keep the old debate on there. That's for the club championship. Actually, it'd be interesting to see what the impact of... I mean, there's a few teams we'll be glad to have. Third player's back. See, if we start talking club championship now, we've already been a bit of a negative feeling.  This is the club championship. If something happens to score more than 10 points, we'll be happy in the game. There's been a few dodgy league games coming in, Greg. So I'm hoping that our club football is actually very representative of what's happening. Club teams need to get out and play here, Greg. At the end of the day, the diamond indictment are senior, junior and intermediate finals. They're still losing teams at a combined total of 12 points. So club football, don't really go all-in. There needs to be, like, a mini-revolution, and their teams need to start to play, because this is affecting everything, and people are switching up. Some might think, though, that you're quick to comment on the club setup, but not so much the Donegal setup. Well, you see, I'm not saying Donegal didn't have a go yesterday. I mean, they still post it. Listen, did you see some of the league results coming through there? Greg, I mean, the Units and Gilcharity of our top teams, the other week, I mean... I get where you're coming from. It's unbelievable what's happening there, Greg. So listen, that's a generalisation on the whole club championship. If we're talking about Donegal, listen, we're beat by a better side yesterday, but there's a lot of head scratching, figuring out how we lost by that much, Greg. Seeing as we beat them by seven, we then lost by 10. Our man... The home was a point in the game, though, where it's out of your reach. Yeah. The goals killed us. Yeah, exactly. So we never looked really like scoring a goal, and I think that was probably a big marker. But any of that, Greg, is small in terms of the general vibe of the game. Our man took over, and we weren't able to cope with him. Well, here you just have to seven times, Brandon. The 9 till noon show with Letter Kenny Credit Union. Is your bank leaving town? Letter Kenny Credit Union is now offering myCU current account and debit mastercard, bringing full banking features with no appointment necessary to open your account. Is your water safe to drink? If your water tastes unpleasant or has a foul smell, it may be a sign that something is in your water. Brothers Tech Donegal provide a complete, private well water treatment service using the best water treatment equipment to meet your needs. Or maybe you drill the new well and the water isn't satisfactory. At Brothers Tech, their expert team will also service existing problematic systems. If you're concerned about the quality of your water, call Brothers Tech on<PHONE_NUMBER>. I've just had the Eclipse cinemas experience. 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At Shane Connelly Car Sales, we deliver straight to your door and offer excellent finance packages. Check out our social platforms or visit ShaneConnellyCarSales.com. Bingo every Monday night at Halfway House Bingo Burnfoot. Doors open 7.30 with eyes down at 8.30. 2,500 Euro must go. The snowball is now 5,650 Euro on 45 numbers or less. If you're not in, you can't win. That's Halfway House Bingo tonight at 8.30. OK, we're joined in studio now by Angela Tourish, centre manager, former centre manager of iCare. Angela, thank you very much for coming in to us. Thank you for having me. Really appreciated. And I suppose thank you on behalf of all of those that you've helped for all your service over the years. Well, I suppose I did it for my own ends as well. It started off because my daughter was diagnosed with autism and there were other parents in the area who didn't have any help or services. So we gripped together and we formed iCare. Which is amazing because you knew yourself the gap was there and yet whilst you were doing everything you had to do as a parent, felt the need to get together with others to fill it. Absolutely, yes. And it's a constant journey, isn't it? You don't just establish it and they'll write we've done that. No. Talk to us about what iCare was when it was first created. We gripped together in the year 2000 and there were eight or nine families back then and we worked closely with our local Sky Leaseagon and the principal she named McLaughlin and we helped, I suppose, establish autism classes in the school and she would tell you that she had no funding to do that. So we were working closely with her, setting up the autism classes and providing her with maybe extra services for those classes that she otherwise wouldn't have had. Maybe therapies coming in and she was open to everything that we could sort of try. She was very open to let us try things. And we were so lucky to have a brilliant teacher as well, Doreen Freel, who was paramount in establishing the autism classes in the school. And we were very lucky in that respect. Yeah, and you could see the progress in the schools. But then there came a point then outside of school and there was a vacuum there. There was a vacuum in the fact that our children couldn't go to a youth club after school or they didn't have play activities. So we established an activity centre then with the help of an initial partnership who gave us some funding. Plus I tackled my brother Kearn, who did a concert for us. Alton fame, isn't it? Yeah, and they did a concert for us which enabled us to buy some soft play equipment. And then the youth club let us use their premises to house all the stuff. And then we were lucky the GAA after that let us use their premises for maybe three or four years. But it got to the stage that we needed somewhere ourselves. And there was a car park that was there vacant from through to the loom times. And I approached George McLaughlin, who's now one of our directors. And he let us plunk three big prefabs on it, which are still there to this day. And it has just grown. Like it was eight families to begin with then 50, now over 100. And you talked about the progression. That was because of the success, the demand that was needed and say, hold on, we need to do more, we need to do more. And yet before all of this, there was nothing, very little. Yeah, exactly. Funding has always been a challenge, hasn't it? Which I can never understand because the money involved to support iCare is significant, it's pittance. It's absolute pittance. And yet annually, there's always this as if there wasn't enough to be done, caring for your own families, putting these facilities in place. It then fell on another small group of individuals to try and keep them going through fundraising and going back to the same well of the local community. And that well never ran dry. Never, our local community have sustained us through the whole procedure. They have been fabulous. We've had brilliant volunteers who've helped us through the whole thing and still to this day, you know, they dig deep. People do events for us even during COVID where two fellas cycled in 24 hours from Mozambique Mall and raised nearly 15,000 euros. Amazing. You know, you just can't quantify how good our local community have been only for them. Only for you. No, I wouldn't say that now. Well, it was you set the ball, you set the ball rolling and I know how much the local community and wider community think of you and what you've done. What is the situation with funding now? Is anything improved in that regard in terms of the HSE seeing the fantastic work that I care do filling the gaps it's left itself? Is funding still an issue? It has improved funding from the HSE is definitely improved. Good. But it's still not enough to sustain us for a year, but I suppose COVID too has stopped the fundraising a wee bit. But hopefully now again we're able to keep things going. How tough a decision has it been for you to step away, Angela? I think it has been very tough because I love my work, but my health sort of took a downturn two years ago and stress was the main reason for that and I've had to just step back. Trying to keep so many balls in the air. All right, and are you finished up with I care now when you're official capacity? Yeah. And how long has that been for? Just nearly two weeks. How's that been for you? Well, I retire on the 31st of May and then we had an event on the 3rd of June. We opened a lovely sensory garden that Donegal County Council funded. So I was sort of involved in that. I suppose this week and maybe the end of last week has been the first few days that I haven't had to think too much. Do you feel less stressed? Maybe I will in time. Because there's a responsibility on you, isn't there? Because you're such an integral part of this answer that you feel, well, if I step away, will other people maybe consider? Because I've spoken to people involved with I care and others and it's intense and it's constant and there's no respite. You know, it feels like there isn't. So you give it a hundred's not enough. You have to give 150% to it. And it's not a lot of people that we're talking about here. No, I know, I know. I hope other parents will step up and help. Yeah, and do you think that needs to happen? It has to happen, doesn't it? Sometimes I think when we set it up, there was no precedent for us receiving a service, if you know what I mean. But parents are now bringing their children with an already established service and maybe don't realize the work that went on to setting it up and maybe the work that's needed to keep it going. So maybe they're unaware of how much is needed to be done. So maybe they might try and help a bit more, you know. Do you see a future where the likes of the HSE goes right? You know, we can see what's happening here. It's a proven model, it works. We should be doing this and they take over, run and fund this type of work in communities. Or do you think there will always have to be a space for the likes of your iCares and your Bluestacks? I can't see the HSE will do it. From what I can hear from parents, even generally, services are worse than they were when we were in our younger years. I mean, that's worrying. It's a terrible indictment of our system, isn't it? Because it's not just in the work that iCare do, there's so many other areas, even caring, whereby there is this expectation that the public will do the work that the state or its arms aren't doing. Yeah, yeah. You know? Even for services, for assessments and for speech therapy, OT, physio, all those services, they have diminished so much. And you hear individual stories of what people are going through and it's just absolutely heartbreaking. And it's individuals, but there's hundreds and thousands of families that need supports that they're not getting. Even though if you looked on paper, they're there, but you can't get them and you can't access them. What do you plan to do with the more time that you have? Is it just to regroup and recharge the batteries, Angela, or...? I have to rest. I've been told by doctors that I have to rest and try and not do too much. I can't see myself being able to do their own thing. You're saying that's if to say, yeah, in case the doctor's listening. No problem, I will do that. But it's tough for you too, isn't it? Because you've got going on outside of the... The eye care work was on top of everything else that you deal with, isn't it? Absolutely, yes. I'm still living with some of the autism at home. But it's not an easy task either. That's all it, isn't it, obviously? Okay, and how is Aura now? She's great. She's good. She's in a great day service. We established Eye Adult, which is the adult day service side of eye care. And it's going fantastic. Again, though, through the initial idea to right where we are now, what would be there for Aura if you hadn't established it yourselves? Absolutely. Well, I had to take her out of a HSE service a few years back because it was totally unsuitable. So this is going really, really well. There's six adults in it now, and more to come in September. Well, Anja, I'm sure I can, without fear of contradiction, on behalf of all of the families that you've helped and are helping over through the establishment of Eye Care and all your efforts and everything that you've done for the fundraising, for the sports, whatever, to thank you for everything you've done over the years and best of luck with the extra time that you might have. Thank you so much. And thank you for all your help as well. No, well, compared to what I've done very, very little. You've done a lot of campaigning for us and a lot of publicity, which was much needed at the time. Well, anything I can do, I will. And Anja, thanks for calling in. And again, thanks again for everything that you've done and enjoy the extra time that you have. Father, I've just this feeling you're going to find something else to do in its place. I probably will, I probably will.  Angela, a tourist, former manager of Eye Care, in a show on autism care related education. OK, we're back with you tomorrow at nine. Enjoy the rest of your day. The Ninetal Noon Show with Letter Kenny Credit Union. Is your bank leaving town?


separation work is very simple this simplest case would be air I put the air here let us assume here consists of only nitrogen and oxygen for the case of for the sake of simplicity what I really have is a membrane as I said all these are thought experiments let us assume I have a semi permeable membrane that can distinguish between the size of oxygen and size of nitrogen. So nitrogen would go right through you can pull out nitrogen here oxygen will come out here now air is at some pressure p I want nitrogen at pressure pn this at pressure p0 as far as thermodynamics is concerned even this sketch is very complicated drawn envelope like this all I have is air going in and oxygen nitrogen coming out. So if I take one mole of air let us assume 79% is oxygen nitrogen 21% is oxygen all I am saying is I have a mass balance I have ?g you know that Ws dot by m dot is equal to – ?g isothermal the what happens inside is immaterial this is at 25 degrees this is at 25 degrees all I want to do is to calculate how much work I have to do to separate air into oxygen and nitrogen the gaseous mixtures all I have to do is to calculate according to thermodynamics – ?g you can make this if you like n dot usually m is used for mass make this n dot per mole for 1 mole per hour or per second flowing through I want to calculate the rate at which work has to be done for this is very simple so ?g is simply g of nitrogen or µ nitrogen sorry we will call nitrogen as component 1 this will be component 2 so it is – of x1 µ1 plus x2 µ2 – µ air actually sorry this is x1 µ1 pure these are the products this is pure – x1 µ1 plus x2 µ2 this is g before in this case it is – ?g this is not ?g of mixing this ?g for the process so this is equal to if you like ?g mixing because this is ?g separation which is – of ?g mixing this according to the equations the models we have this is gas phase so let me rate gas phase models only one model for the gas phase or µi saturation at temperature T I think I wrote it as not saturation I do not need µi saturation µi 0 sorry µi 0 of T plus RT ln P y1 times ?1 or yi and µi pure is again µi 0 plus RT ln P into ?i pure µi 0 is the chemical potential of pure I at the temperature of the mixture but one atmosphere pressure so normally this is written at one atmosphere therefore P has to be an atmospheric units otherwise you will get the numbers wrong because you are taking log P this is actually log P by 1 which corresponds to one atmosphere pressure at which µi 0 is reckoned so if you use millimetres here you will be off by a large number you have to be careful so this difference therefore ?g mix or ws dot by m dot by n dot is equal to RT into the difference between these two log in the mixture its pressure P in the mixture composition is y1 ?1 by pressure if you are talking of component 1 component 1 is at pressure Pn into ?1 pure you must have another x1 in front sorry we will divide ws dot by RT we will take RT to this side this is x1 this is y1 now sorry plus y2 log P y2 ?2 by P oxygen ?2 pure the simplest case is this if you assume ideal gas and ideal mixing if you assume ideal gas P1 pure and P2 pure R1 and ideal mixing means P1 is equal to P1 pure that is also equal to so the fees will cancel then you have y1 log y1 plus y2 log y2 plus also written slightly differently like this is a small P1 P into y1 is the partial pressure of 1 in the mixture small P2 is partial pressure of 2 in the mixture notice that that work is exactly 0 if P1 is equal to Pn and P2 is equal to PO that means if this is at the partial pressure that nitrogen exerts here and this is at the partial pressure that oxygen exerts here you do not need any work of separation all you need to do is to find this magic membrane through which you get oxygen on one side this is what you do in regular reverse osmosis where you separate solutes and solvent but in this case right now I will discuss that case in a minute you have no work done at all but you actually want this usually at P so normally you get everything at 1 atmosphere at the same pressure normally Pn is equal to PO is equal to P in which case your work done ws dot by n dot is simply RT times y1 log y1 plus y2 log y2 because of pressures if there is non-ideality you have to make these corrections but you can calculate them quite easily you know if you want to calculate non-ideal corrections you know log Vi is simply integral Vi bar by RT minus 1 by P dP from 0 to P you have to take experimental data on V1 bar Vi bar and integrate that quantity you get Vi so you can throw in the Vi and the Vi pure for Vi pure is simply put Vi bar equal to specific volume of I so you need a fair amount of experimental data but these are available for gases not a problem very often in spite of non-ideality P1 and P1 pure are the same because your Vi bar and Vi specific volume Vi pure are really the same in many gaseous systems so the non-ideality here usually cancels out so this is a pretty good estimate of the work required so that in all gaseous substances if you plot log y1 against the cost in the marketplace after all this is the amount of work I put in so if you plot the actual cost which is the plot that I indicated to you if you put cost in marketplace I think I showed you a slide in the very first lecture cost in marketplace versus log y1 log y which is log of the mole fraction as it occurs in nature usually get a straight line for various substances you get an exact straight line in the case of gases even the case of liquids is proportional to this so you can take this data from chemical age of India I do not know if you look at trade journals it is worth your while looking at it will give you some idea as to where the emphasis is in the chemical engineering market place so this take this cost in the marketplace plot against the mole fraction in which the substance occurs naturally you get a straight line in fact in the US market you get a perfect straight line in the Indian market you will have few aberrations petrol for example is much higher than it will be here because that is because of the additional taxation in the government urea in order to please the farmer they give it to him very cheap so urea will be somewhere here sugar will be somewhere here so the cost except for those irrational things where there is market intervention by the government presumably I think they were all introduced with good reasons but now they are going one by one because of that you have a artificial price difference but otherwise 90% of the things it will be perfectly in line in the international market Europe US it is much more even more rational even here in India also the changes are only in about 3 4 substances where the excise duties and other things are artificially either increased or subsidized a nice plot is given in Jetson King so first point about separation work is this is the cost to give you some idea you can look at the numbers notice that W s dot by m dot will come out to be negative means work is done on the system our convention is work done by the system is positive so you have to do work to separate air into oxygen nitrogen okay let me discuss the non-ideality part of it in gas phase basically all non-ideality corrections have to do with calculating this integral vi bar – RT by P this is RT ln Vi so all you need is Vi bar if you look at Vi bar by definition it is partial of V with respect to ni folding TP all other mole numbers constant so all you need an expression for V when you do the differentiation so what I need is equations of state I will tell you the equations of state that I expect you to know one of the problems with equations of state is that they are all usually implicit in the volume that means you will get multiple routes you have to find the correct route and then do this differentiation so normally you do it numerically but let me explain the equation of state that you should know of course ideal gas law ideal gas equation of state second for simply the historical record you have to know the van der Waals equation of state third you have to know the virial equation of state I will discuss this a little more this is the only equation of state that can be derived rigorously from theory if you are looking at molecules you are looking at intermolecular potentials and depending on different intermolecular potentials you will get different equations of state so in principle there is one intermolecular potential that will give you each equation of state ideal gas comes from phi is equal to 0 the intermolecular potential being 0 it is not clear what the van der Waals comes from there is no simple you can get van der Waals like expressions from many potentials but the exact form of the van der Waals equation does not come out from theory the virial equation of state comes out very nicely because this is really a density expansion and this was originally due to a person called cammerling on us I think I told you about cammerling on us in theory it is due to mayor and mayor the husband and wife team who derived this actually it was derived even before but mayor and mayor give exact expressions from statistical mechanics for the virial coefficients this is a very important equation purely from a theoretical point of view when I say van der Waals here you must add here redlich-quang redlich-kister this is k for quang I think this is for kistler redlich-kistler equation of state and then the other sets of you have to know this multi parameter equations of state think you use the BET equation in adsorption isotherms and so on and I will put down one you just have to know at least one so I will choose one Wallace has all these things and Wallace has this integration also will give you expressions for fee for each equation of state all this has been done then you have a set of it equations of state which are really interpolative based on you have to introduce another word which is a centric factor what you do is you ask what is the cause of non-ideality and the cause of non-ideality in molecular terms and this was not necessarily this pictures this thing was derived in classical thermodynamics but it basically has to do with the concept that the center of force in the center of mass do not coincide if I have two molecules at interact I can take the line joining the centers of mass but there is also a line of force if I take even a simple molecule like carbon dioxide I have carbon and oxygen oxygen is bigger than carbon so I am drawing it a little bigger over and over now but if I have two carbon dioxide molecules the total interaction between two molecules is between the carbon carbon carbon oxygen carbon oxygen and so on and oxygen oxygen you have to take an average of all these and find out how the interaction occurs the center of mass may be right in the middle here but the center of force need not be located there because the force between oxygen oxygen may be much larger than the force between carbon and oxygen so on so there can be a distortion so the question is in fact it is better for me to take carbon monoxide because carbon dioxide is quite symmetric but if I take carbon monoxide then you can see that the center of mass will be shifted towards oxygen but the carbon carbon interaction may be stronger than the oxygen-oxygen interaction in which case the center of force will be shifted towards the carbon atom there will be a separation between these two when there is a separation you get eccentricity non-centric forces if you get eccentricity it leads to non-ideal behavior so Pitzer defined an eccentric factor he actually defined it in classical thermodynamics I will tell you how it is defined and what he said was eccentric factors typically vary from 0 to 0.5 so he said find a fluid for which it is 0.5 find a fluid for which it is 0 and then do an interpolative calculation for all other fluids that is what we will do these all derived interpolative ones are derived from the principle of corresponding states so what I will do is discuss equations of state a little more today and I will start with the discussion of corresponding states it is a very appealing idea you I think you already know about the simple principle of corresponding states it was again the first idea was due to Van der Waals let us start with the so I will talk about the principle of corresponding states it is much more general than let us start with the Van der Waals you look at P plus a by V squared if you look at these plots I can do it on the PV diagram if you like I am distorting the scale these are towards this end will go like finally at very low pressures PV is equal to constant so the isotherm will go like a rectangular hyperbola so this part is a rectangular hyperbola and this can be steep it is actually steep because liquids are incompressible at the point is that if you go up towards the critical point these roots come closer and closer till they finally coincide here this equation is cubic if I rearrange this equation I get PV squared plus a into V minus B is equal to RT into V squared you multiply this out let me divide through by P I am looking at the polynomial expression for you get V cube plus V squared into is a minus B here there is so I can write this as minus B plus RT by P minus a V by P is equal to 0 I have got V cube a B by P sorry there is a constant term minus A B by P is equal to 0 this is plus A B by P this is a cubic equation there is three roots what the experimental diagram tells you is two roots are real below the critical point at the critical point all the roots coincide so you will get if two roots are real in a cubic the third root is also real but it is unphysical it is not realizable in the lab so you get three roots at critical point actually let me say this at critical point the three roots are equal that means at critical point I can write this as Tc Pc is equal to 0 because the roots are equal this equation should also be you should be able to write it as V minus Vc whole cube equal to 0 so this is one if you like and this is two these two represent the same polynomial you should be able to equate the coefficients so I get V cube minus Vc cube minus 3 V Vc into V minus Vc minus or plus I think this is correct this is correct so therefore if you have two parameters van der Waals argued that you should be able to find the parameters by making a comparison between these equations so if you look at the comparison you get 3 Vc is B plus RTC B plus RTC by Pc is equal to 3 Vc it is one equation other equation is a by Pc is equal to 3 Vc squared in the last one is a B by Pc is equal to Vc cube so this these two imply that B is equal to Vc by 3 if you look at experimental data on liquids there is a nice book that you should look at it is actually a graduate level book it is called liquids and liquid mixtures I think now it is Rawlinson and somebody the original version we have several editions the first edition was by Rawlinson and he wrote it he was in Imperial College that book has table of data for several substances if you look at the critical that and look at the volume specific volume at the triple point it is almost always one third the wall critical volume they give you both they will give you the critical volume they will give you the volume of the specific volume of the liquid at the triple point the one exception is oxygen unfortunately it is one of the first ones that come because of paramagnetism oxygen alone has a very wide range of liquid behavior so you will find otherwise you will find in almost all other cases this is true the other empirical observations are like this about generalizations I mean there will be exceptions but if you want to generalize some things empirical observations V liquid is approximately constant so V triple point I will say VT is the specific volume at the triple point of the liquid is approximately VC by 3 then the absolute temperature at the boiling point is approximately 0.7 times TC which is why a large amount of data see the boiling point normal boiling point this is normal boiling point normal means at the total pressure of one bar one at most of the data is at one atmosphere so very large amount of data this is the easiest to measure TB is the easiest to measure extensively available TC is somewhat difficult to measure because actual critical point measurements are done by looking at what is called critical opalescence you know the interface disappears and it is very difficult to experimentally observe and detect it exactly I mean to within point one or point even 0 5 degrees it is easy but to get exactly the critical point is very difficult but this is a good thumb rule you can use TB by 0.7 and estimate critical temperatures for engineering purposes in correlations we will need the critical temperature it is very convenient use that estimate you do not have data having said this so this was a B you remember Van der Waals argued B was actually the volume occupied by molecules in liquid phase because he said in the liquid phase essentially you compressed the molecules as much as you can so he said the free space available is V – B so this estimate of B is a I mean this interpretation of B came in very handy Van der Waals thought he had a good equation of state with him of course a is simply 3 PC VC squared and if you combine these here you get PC VC by RTC is equal to 3 by 8 this is well known this is VC by 3 so PC VC by if you divide this by RTC by 3 is equal to no plus 1 and you work it out it is 3 by 8 so any two parametric question of state that is if you have a cubic equation of state and many equations of state are cubic and if you have only two parameters in it it will give you both the parameters in terms of PC VC and PC.