Welcome to Seymour's World on Think Tech, Hawaii. I'm your host, Seymour Kazimerski. Our show today is called David Livingston, the man who gives and never stops giving. And we're going to talk about what he has done in all of his philanthropic efforts here in Hawaii. We're going to address the issue of how he has such a totally unselfish attitude to help others. If you want to ask a question or participate in the discussion, you could tweet us at thinktech-h-i or call us at<PHONE_NUMBER>. Now, before we get on with Dave, I want to talk about last week's show. We've had so many comments regarding Sharon Yarborough and Sisters Empowering Hawaii. And I wrote some of them down for you. First of all, I have to tell you that we were rated the number one show for Think Tech Hawaii. Some of the comments are from a lady in Calgary who's 89 years old. She wrote, you go girl to Sharon. Another lady in Israel wrote, please come to Israel. We need you here. A lady in Montreal, Canada, what a powerful woman Sharon is. And somebody in Los Angeles saying she is doing exactly what we need for the world. Well, due to popular demand, we have asked Sharon to come back. And she's going to be joining us with two guests. We're going to continue the conversation on the empowerment of women and more important, how these ladies got to where they are. So stay tuned for that show. Now, I also promised you, and I didn't deliver last week because we didn't have enough time, some of the photographs of our last trip to Germany. So we're going to cue those pictures up for you. Here's our first one. This was in a little town called Garmish Park in Kichen. I was actually born here. And if you recognize that scene, that is from one of the James Bond movies. The next picture we have, let's see if we can get it up, is part of the area called Berksis Garden Area, which is unfortunately where Mr. Hitler had his summer residence. The next one is the area I went skiing on, believe it or not. This was just two weeks ago. It was zero degrees up on the top of the mountain and 65 degrees at the bottom. It took us over 40 minutes to get through. I think we have one coming now. There is my wife Sue, who was our photographer, and she actually took the pictures of me going skiing. And I think we may have one more. That shows you the lift we had to take to go up to the top of the mountain to be able to go down. It is 2.7 miles and 8,500 feet above sea level. So I was stuck in air up there, but I loved it. Absolutely loved it. So that's the last four. Oh, here's the last one. That's the actual hill from the top to the bottom. So may I please introduce Dave. Dave, I have known you for 24 years. Is that correct? That's correct. And in 24 years, we've done many, many different things. But I wanted you to come on the show because I've never known anybody that gives so much to so many wonderful organizations here in Hawaii. Thanks for having me on the show. But that's probably, there's a million guys out there that do more than I do. But I am more than happy and pleased to serve. I've had a good time. And thanks to you for hiring me 24 years ago to come to Hawaii. I appreciate that. You mean I am responsible? Well, you're one of three. You, Phil Sammer, and Sally Takamini made the final decision to bring me in here to run the YMCA 24 years ago. It's hard to believe, isn't it? It really is. And you know, Dave, now that you say that, I have to say that not everybody was in favor of bringing this howly into Honolulu. And I said, but he's experienced and he knows what he's doing. And we need somebody to really make sure that the Y gets to where it was. So as the chairman of the Y, I said, we've got to have you. And I have to tell you, you did a great job. Well, I enjoyed it. It was great. It was a great 25-year career. It ended here. I retired here in Honolulu. And you know, what a great place to retire. And thank you so much for bringing me here. Of course, I'm not retired, but I retired from the YMCA. Well, we're going to talk about that because... I've had a couple of experiences since then. Retirement is not in our vocabulary. That's true. I know it's not in mine. And I know it's not in yours. No. We had lunch the other day and we were already talking about more things we can do for kids here in our Y. Yeah, look at all the things you're doing for kids. I'm wearing your badge. Yes, you're wearing our Make-Em Smile pin. And that is our program with the hospital. And we talked about our foster kids program, how you can help our foster kids almost have a different kind of experience by coming to the Y. Absolutely. And this is something we're working on just because we had that lunch the other day. Isn't that great? But let people hear a little bit about you. Tell us where you came from and what happened. Well, I came from... interesting. You're probably having the only guy born in Iran ever on your show. Were you born in Iran? Yeah, my dad was a Shaz pilot for seven years. He was U.S. Air Force. And I was only six months old when we moved to March Air Force Base in California. But my start in life, I grew up in a trailer park at March Air Force Base. My dad, my mom, my parents divorced when I was eight years old. And my mom and four kids, she had an older brother and two sisters. We stayed in Riverside. Dad went back to Kansas. I grew up in Riverside, California, had a blast, ran the Riverside Y, the Corona Norco Y, the San Bernardino Y, the Pasadena YMCA.  I remember we had many conversations about the Norco Y because I had a client there who was a veterinarian who was the actual, he invented the microchip, the RFID microchip for dogs and cats. Yeah. I helped them bring back to the market. Small world. Small world. Yeah. Yeah, that did it. But Dave, what makes you do what you do? Hey, I get up every morning and ask one simple question. Who can I help today? And I've got a whole list of activities that I can do and help at as a volunteer. And it works well into my occupation as a financial advisor because I get to go out and meet people and work with people. And when you gain their trust, a lot of them ask you, hey, can you help me with my money? So it's kind of a symbiotic relationship, my volunteering and being a financial advisor and helping people. And you're working with AmeriPrize. I'm with AmeriPrize. I have my own franchise over here at the Alamoana Pacific Center. That's wonderful. And of course, that helps both ways, right? You get potential clients that you talk to. And at the same time, you get people that you work with to help in some of your endeavors. Absolutely. And you know, it's all about teams. None of us get anything done alone. You and I talked about that at lunch the other day. We're just lucky to be surrounded by really great people. People don't want to help make this community even better. We live in a beautiful place, but we've got some challenges that we need to work on continuously. And how do we do that, Dave? How do we convince more? I've been trying for, since I turned the corner and decided to devote my life to helping others in all the different things that I do. And I see people really understanding it, but then they have to take that step to really begin helping in all of the different ideas, whether it's children, whether it's cancer, whether it's any type of organization that needs assistance. Well, I mean, that's exactly right.  But you know, I belong to this small group called Rotary, 1.2 million members worldwide. And we continue as Rotarians, we continually look at our communities and assess where the needs are, both locally and internationally. So for example, our club, we wanted to address the homeless problem. So Stephen Morgan, our community services chair, went down and met with the folks at IHS and next step shelter and said, how can we help? And the guy at next step said, hey, look, we got a great facility down here, but you know, it's pretty ragged. And Steve just happens to be a painter. So with the last year, every quarter, our Rotary Club goes down and repaints one third of that shelter. So those people have a more decent place to show up at night. We help with gathering goods for them. We help with the feeding, the clothing, obviously the housing by keeping that shelter in pretty good shape. One of the many things on an international scale, Rotary is involved the last 30 years with wiping polio off the face of the earth. And we're this far away. Folks like, again, those teams that you develop, Bill Gates from Microsoft gave us a two to one match this year. So the $150,000 we raised in Hawaii became $450,000 against to fight polio. And Rotarians are going around the world putting those drops in those little babies' mouths so that they don't have that virus. And we had 15 cases last year and five this year in polio, or when we started that campaign, there were 385,000 cases a year. So it's just great to be part of these organizations that really do make a difference in the world and in our community. Steve, we have viewers all over the world, as you heard in the intro, that watch the show. And one of the most important pieces of the puzzle in what to do with your life is what you just said is taking that first step. Well, an easy step, join a Rotary Club, join Kiwanis, join Lions. You have a whole lot of people that have a lot of great ideas and they need the manpower to affect change in their community. Or you can, I'm on 12 boards and I'd never say no. I just say yes with here's my limitations. One of the things that I bring to the table whenever I do any of my community service projects, I'm a photographer. I do a lot of photography. I just did the 50th anniversary for the Veterans of Vietnam Commemoration. We did three events. We had Tony Orlando and We're going to see some of those pictures, I think. No, I hope so. Yeah, we'll see them in the second half of the show. But the three things we asked volunteers for, time, talent, treasure. I've got a little talent with my camera. I can help with finances. And we do. Pam and I, like Sue and you, we give to organizations that we believe in. The time is something a lot of people don't have anymore. They got so busy in their retirement that they're busier now than when they were working. So we have to measure that. We have to very carefully decide what we want to take on as a project so we can give it the adequate time to accomplish the goals we set. So if you have time, talent, or treasure, one of those three, join an organization. I've got boards of directors, junior achievement, for example, right now looking for volunteers to go out and help teach kids. They have the kids, they have all the knowledge, they've got, it's a completely packaged program, takes you about an hour to learn how to be a volunteer and you can take that into a classroom. And we've got lots of classrooms asking for junior achievement volunteers. YMCA is looking for volunteers all the time. Rotary needs volunteers. There's so many organizations out there that need help. And both of us attest to the fact, Dave, that volunteering makes you feel great. You know, you make a living by what you get and you make a life by what you give. And you and I both know the more you give, the more it comes back. And we are blessed. You and I are blessed. First, we have beautiful wives who care and love us. That's pretty cool. Or so they say. Well, so they say. Yeah. But they put up with us. Yeah, they do. I know my wife has to put up with me and I sometimes wonder how she does it and I sometimes wonder why she does it because my schedule is like yours. I'm all over the place. I play my sports. I do my stuff and I do all my volunteering. Sometimes weekends, nights, we could be in Europe somewhere and I'm on the phone for an hour or two, you know, helping somebody do their thing. Exactly. And they still love us, no matter how many things we get involved in. And our families. And it must work because they're getting younger and we're getting older. It's kind of working for our wives. You know, you just made a couple of points. But you're very good at that. So that's terrific. I have to ask you, Dave, the wherewithal to do it, where do you find, when you get up in the morning, you say, you ask, you said, I ask, what can I do for somebody today? Who can I help today? Well, you know, it's funny, a lot of people have 12 hours a day that they get things done. I go to bed 10, 12, two o'clock in the morning. I get up at four. Wow. So I get a lot more hours than most people. I put together a newsletter called Things We're Saving. Goes out every Monday to about 22,000 people. It's all about what's going on in our community and it's stuff that people have given me from literally all over the world. Please share this and Things We're Saving. I started it in 9-11, 2001. A friend of mine said, I just spent a lot of money on advertising and nobody's in my store. And that was when everything was shut down. And I said, you know, George, I don't know if this is going to work for you, but let me try this. Give me something. And I had 2,000 emails at the time and I sent out George Nellis at piano outlets having a sale. He'll take 10% off.  So hold that thought. I want to go a little further, but we've got to take a break. Sure. So hold that thought. As you can see, I said that we're going to have a wonderful guest today. And it's been terrific because I don't have to say anything. Once I give Dave the microphone, I just have to sit back and let him talk. We're going to be back in a minute with Dave Livingston, my very good friend, who gives more to the community than anybody else I know. Back in a minute, I'm Seymour Kazimurski on Seymour's World on Think Tech Hawaii. Aloha, I'm Kaui Lucas, host of Hawaii is my mainland every Friday at 3pm on Think Tech Hawaii. We talk about things of interest to those of us who live here and my past blogs can be found at kauilukas.com. Aloha, my name is Steven Phillip Katz. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and I'm the host of Shrink Rap Hawaii where I talk to other shrinks. Did you ever want to get your head shrunk? Well, this is the best place to come to pick one. I've been doing this. We must have 60 shows with a whole bunch of shrinks that you can look at. I'm here on Tuesdays at 3 o'clock every other Tuesday. I hope you are too. Aloha. Hi, welcome back to Seymour's World on Think Tech Hawaii with my guest, David Livingston. And I'm smiling because I'm having such a good time with Dave. I mentioned prior to the break that I just have to sit here and give him the microphone and everything goes. But if you're really listening to what Dave has to say, it's amazing. He is just one of these people who never, never stops giving. Let's finish that last story about Piano Planet. Well, we sent the email out to 2000 people and 2000 people and two dramatic things happen. One is I got 17 of the people I sent the email to saying, can you tell them what I've got going in my store? So that was things were saving volume. One things were saving volume. Two had 17 little things in it that they wanted me to tell the folks about. I got hundreds of people saying, how do I get on the list? How do I get my friends on the list? And now you have how many? 22,000. Isn't that nice? So Pete Martinez, we talked about earlier. Pete was the desktop publisher at the YMCA when I came here. Wait a second. We have a picture of him. Let's go to the pictures, can't we? Well, let's go to the pictures. Pete's not in the picture, but hey, there's Tony Orlando. Tell us. Tony was just here, did a concert for the 50th anniversary of the commemoration of Vietnam, 50 years. He, an amazing guy, what an amazing entertainer. And he used to entertain the troops back in the, in the days. And I was a Vietnam era veteran, but not, I never went to Vietnam. I was a drill sergeant at Fort Ord during that period of time. And it was great to get to see Tony this weekend with Ann Margaret at the, at the Vietnam 50th anniversary. That was a lot of fun. And again, my camera was there and I got to shoot. And I know you're very involved in the Navy League too. Patros in the Navy League. You got my money on last week, right?  I became a bridge member.  So please let me know if you want to be a bridge member. Call me up. Great, great. I'll be happy to get you, get you on board. Well, there's talking about the Navy League. There's Jane Ferrara and Jean Castanetti. Jean was the chairman of the 50th anniversary events and put together the team and asked me to shoot the event and asked me for some help and web design. And Jane is the head of the Navy League. Executive director of the Navy League. She was on the phone with you talking to you about your programs. Yeah, she wants to get involved in your program. It's teams, well developing teams. Let's go. There's one. You know, that's the rotary team. Those are the nine assistant governors. I happen to be one of them this year with our district governor, Clint Schroeder. And Clint Schroeder is a district governor through the end of this month. He's done an outstanding job. He's a good friend. He and Jason had a dive. I'm a school instructor on the weekends. Taught him out of dive about 10 years ago. We've been friends for a long time. He is a great human being and he gives back more than anybody I know. Well, he's ahead of Haggadon printing. Haggadon printing, of course. What's the next one? You know, that's a group of Rotarians at the recent walk. March of Dimes has a march for babies every year and we handle the water station. And again, we've got 70 Rotarians. So we always have, you know, 15, 20 of them at each of our events that are helping out. These guys did a great job. I've been a member of the March of Dimes Finance Committee for the last 20 years. I help raise money and bring businesses to help the March of Dimes. We raised about $800,000 on the walk. They did a great job. Let's see this next. Oh, maybe they asked me to go and see a convention that they want me to head up in August of 2018. This convention that I went to in Washington, D.C. was a seer in space. We're going to call our something different here in Honolulu. But it's bringing all the defense contractors and the military folks to a huge convention. This was a 90,000 square foot convention filled with military implements. We're going to do that here in Hawaii. This is what the convention hall looked like inside. It's one of the vehicles they brought in to show off. I couldn't shoot pictures inside this. It's classified the outside. These are the things that help protect our soldiers around the world. Let's look at the next one. Well, you know, that guy on the left is David Hader and that lady on the right is Gene Rolls. Gene was our salesperson of the year. David was the president of sales and marketing executives this year. And we have the annual salesperson of the year. And we recognize that the person who has most impacted positively Hawaii and its culture and Gene Rolls was our honoree this year. She's definitely deserving. She was very deserving and Outrigger, of course, has always been there for the community. I'll be taking Dave's place January 1st. I'm going to be the president of sales and marketing executives. Again, for the third time, 10 years ago, I left that position and I'm having the honor to do it again. You don't have enough to do, Dave. Well, you know, it's a great group and they asked me and I said, yes. All right, cool. Let's see the next one. There's the March of Dimes. There's Carmela Hernandez. Again, the executive director of the March of Dimes. This lady is amazing. She's a great friend. She's done wonderful things. She's been with the March of Dimes for the last 20 years and I've supported her and her devours. Her and her husband are Pam and I's closest friends. But she, this lady is one of the top fundraisers in the world. She just does a great job of the March of Dimes. Wow. I think we have one or two more. The Toys for Tots campaign. Our Navy League puts that on. I love this one. You know, my goal is to raise a thousand toys every year. That's my personal goal. And I do that through sales and marketing executives, through the Rotary Group, through a mayor prize. The mayor prize collects toys for me and for the Toys for Tots. And then we give those toys to the kids, the native kids out there. And our golf tournament raises about 360 of those thousand toys. So the Navy League is there every year. The first Friday in December, we have the golf tournaments. It's a great, again, a great networking opportunity for me. I meet a lot of people there and I've had the privilege of chairing this event last couple years. But there's one, you know, there's one organization where you're giving directly to the kids. They're getting a toy. Toys for Tots. It's not a money thing. It's the idea that kids who need toys will get a toy. That's exactly right. Thanks to you. No, that's great. It's a great organization. And that's our most recent, you know, when I left the YMCA as the executive director, they've had several YMCA directors after me. Troy, to me, is one of the finest I have ever met. He's running a central YMCA right now. Troy's just a great, great person. I used to work for his mom. Oh my gosh. Yeah, just imagine that. Wow. So Troy's great. Made our goal this year. He's a wonderful YMCA professional. And I look forward to working with Troy and all he does at the YMCA. I know there's a good one here. There's a great group of people. Bob McDermott's in the middle of that group. This is the Rotary Visiting the State Capital. Bob McDermott is in our Rotary Club, so is Gene Ward. We have two state representatives as part of the Waikiki Rotary Club. Once a year, we go down and find out what's going on at the state capital.  And fortunately, we have two guys in the state house that can take us on that tour. Bob is the past executive director of the Navy League, one of my closest friends. I love that guy. He's a great guy. And there's some of the Rotarians that help support the Rotary Club and go on these great little Rotary on the Road, we call it. Get to see what's going on out there in the community. Well, Dave, we have more pictures. Let's do this one and one more. Sailor of the Year Award. One of the greatest programs that the Navy League does. They recognize sailors from all over the world. They take the best of the best. This last several years has been at the Alamona Hotel. Again, in the past, I've had the opportunity to chair this event. This is our Admiral Swift, our Command Master Chief of the Navy honoring one of the sailors there at that event. And again, if you join the Navy League, you have the opportunity to recognize a lot of young men and women that serve our nation. And I think that's really an important thing to do. That's terrific. Terrific. Well, that time went by fast, didn't it? I know. It always does. We have time for a couple more questions. And I have one from a viewer that just called in. What are your personal reasons for helping others? Gosh, somebody's helped me my whole life. I ran YMCA. I didn't do it alone. I had hundreds of volunteers in every community that I worked in. It's my time to get back. It's my time to be one of those volunteers. It's my time to use my time, talent, treasure, to make things happen in my community. I'm just like you, Seymour. Again. I could never aspire to be to do as much as you do, Dave. You do so much. You're so modest about that. No, no, no. You give so much. It's something that we both share. We both share something happened to us sometime in our life that made us feel that this is more important than anything else in our life. Absolutely. It really gives me great pleasure to do what I do. And I think doing a show like Seymour's World and doing the commentaries that I do for our viewers, I get so many comments back that make me realize it's worth it. Just yesterday, I was at Schreiner's Hospital for our Make Him Smile campaign. And they gave me a picture, and I'll bring it for the next show. And on the back of the picture, the kids, the patients all wrote down saying how much they loved every Thursday when the musicians come to play for them. And these are kids that are there for three, four, five, six months. So it's just such a pleasure to be able to give back. And you're the epitome of it, and that's why I'm so happy to have you on the show. Well, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it. Well, I'm hoping we might even get you to even host a couple of shows. Dave, happy to do that. Terrific too, right? Because it's such a wonderful medium to be able to show people how to give back. Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming. It's a pleasure. Absolutely. And that brings us to the end of our show. We have enjoyed bringing it to you. I'm your host, Seymour Kazimerski. Our guest has been David Livingston. We've been talking about Dave Livingston, the man who gives and never stops giving, and his unselfish attitude to help others. I want to thank our production engineer, Ian Davidson, our floor manager, Robert McClane, and all the people who care and contribute to our ThinkTech products. If you want to see this show again, go to ThinkTechHawaii.com or YouTube.com slash ThinkTechHawaii, where there will be a link to more shows just like this one. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. Aloha.


Our app is called KTaker. It's basically a medicine reminder service. We hope it's much more easier to use for people. So when somebody wants to add, I mean they got a description, they bought the medicines, they want to just add a reminder, they click on a new medicine. They'll take a picture of the bottle or whatever that is easier for them to recognize the medicine and then they schedule it saying mornings or evenings or nights or three times a day whatever and just say yes and it'll pop up a reminder at this thing. That's pretty much it. It should come up in about 10-15 seconds. It's basically that. That's all there is.


Appalachian Wireless now has new forward pay prices where you can pay up front and get the data and features you desire. Five gigabytes of data, just $39.99, unlimited, just $79.99, better service, bigger savings. That's today's Appalachian Wireless. John Russell Hall made his first court appearance today after being indicted in the murder of Pyrgle Police Officer Scotty Hamilton. In Pike Circuit Court this afternoon, John Russell Hall entered a not-guilty plea to charges including murder in relation to Pikeville Police Officer Scotty Hamilton's death. The arraignment hearing was fairly short and uneventful, but it helped paint a picture for where the case against Hall could go from here. A pretrial hearing was set for May 24th. Between today's hearing and that May 24th hearing, the Commonwealth will have to determine whether it intends to seek life in prison or the death penalty for John Russell Hall. I would hope that the Commonwealth will make a decision about whether or not to seek to enhance a penalty such as the death penalty or life in prison or not to do that from that next day. We can do that in Ryan before that next day after we're good and file carefully and consultation with everybody that might have an input on that topic. Hall's attorney Brian Hewlett with the Department for Public Advocacy said the case will be difficult for the community and for his office as well, but he said Hall has a right to representation. Part of my job is even though if there's a tragedy, every person is entitled to do process and to be represented, to have quality representation and that's what I'm here for. It doesn't change the fact that still are human beings and obviously our hearts go out to the family of the officer and it's a terrible tragedy for the community. John Russell Hall was ordered to continue to be held without bond in order to which Hewlett did not object. We're here today to start the process and it's with heavy hearts, we're here but we have our job to do and that's why we're here. Pike Commonwealth's attorney Rick Bartley declined to comment on today's proceedings. Pikeville police officer Scotty Hamilton, a 12-year police veteran, was shot and killed March 13th. John Hall remains lodged in the Pike County Detention Center. In Pikeville, Chris Anderson, EKB News.


This study developed a new type of wound dressing based on polyacrylic acid, PAA, and its derivatives. It was found that the PAA-based coaservate hydrogel had strong wet adhesion capability, which could be attributed to the presence of isoprenyl oxypoly, ethylene glycol, ether and tannic acid. The coaservate also demonstrated excellent antimicrobial activity, promoted fibroblast migration and modulated macrophage polarization. Furthermore, it accelerated healing of full, thickness skin defects and improved collagen deposition, angiogenesis, and epithelialization. This article was authored by Lingxuan Wang, Lianduan, Jia Liu, and others.


The final talk today is another slight experiment in the Euro-BSD algorithms concept. Stephen didn't submit this paper, we pulled it out of there. He's an invited speaker, Robert Watson to do it. This would be a really interesting topic, somewhat offbeat compared to all this BSD is the best thing and BSD is the second best thing and all this stuff. Here we go. Stephen's playing with computers and tech apps. I think it's really cool. Thanks for staying around everyone. Here's a coffee light on my top. We're talking about clock scoops. So I'll introduce some definitions of what I precisely mean by clock scoops. Show how this is linked to the temperature this will become clear later on and also how to measure clock scoops remotely. Then show how this technique can be used to attack the power and the maintaining work. And finally I'll discuss some current work on improving this technique and also some alternative applications. One of the general lessons of this talk is actually the background of academia and sometimes if you read academic paper it will be like I did A, then I did B, then I did C and then I made this amazing discovery. I have my Nobel Prize for things. Actually this is not how science works. It's a lot more messy about this. So as this talk created, I'll discuss how I actually got to the stage of finding the results that I wanted as if that is what I meant to do in the first place. Here's what I mean by clocks. I don't mean what clocks, although that's one example. I'm talking about a very general concept of just something that counts, something to do with time. These are constructed out of both hardware and software components. There's an oscillator. This is driven by a crystal. So I'm looking something like that. There will probably be three up over in your average computer. And then this is connected up to a counter. Sometimes this will be hardware, sometimes it will be software. Sometimes it will be implemented in the processor. That's the adventure about here.  And as a good example, I'll mention the 3DSD. They have something called tick counter. It's a little variable called tick. It runs at h, then it's clock speed. There's a very similar concept in Linux called the Jiffy Timer. And this is incremented to each time there's a timer interrupt. This plugs into the system clock. This is the one that will be seen to most user space programs. You get at this by doing get time of day. And one that I'm not really going to talk about is the BIOS clock. This is the one that runs even when your computer's off. Sometimes this is a dedicated chip. If you have a older EC, you might see a Dallas chip that's got an alarm clock on it. That's the real time clock. And more modern computers like what I'm taking photos of, this is in the South Bridge. For the BIOS system of this clock, I'm interested in looking to connect with clocks to remotely. There's a very large number of ways to do this. But a few important ones are the ICMB timestamp request. This is where you can send an ICMB packet to a computer. If it hasn't been disabled, it will respond with the current time according to the get time of day system call at a millisecond position. So that's running at 1 kHz. This advantage of this is it's disabled by default on a lot of systems because it's not that useful nowadays at a potential security risk. And also in a lot of firewalls, ICMP will be completely locked or there will just be some quite listed packets that are permitted. Another one, which is actually only applicable to Linux or... It's not applicable to ASD or previous E, which I looked at. It is applicable to Linux. This is not normally considered a timestamp, but it works like one. This is because in Linux, when you're generating a TCP initial sequence number, you take source port, destination port, source IP address, destination IP address, actually all together and then add on a 1 mHz counter. So that if an initial sequence number is generated for that same post and port tube later on, there's not going to be a collision. So this is from an RSE by Steve Bellman. OpenBSD uses almost a completely random initial sequence number. FreeBSD uses something that's inspired by the Bellman scheme for generating sequence numbers, but it's not together the same and it's not good for getting a timestamp out of the host. So the most general technique that I'm going to talk about and this is where all my results are from, is the TCP timestamp. This is an option in TCP packets. It should not be confused with the IP timestamp option. In TCP timestamps, the host generates a timestamp. It's up to it how fast it is in practice you see between 2 Hz and 1 kHz. It sticks this into every packet that goes out. The response to that packet will include that timestamp so that allows a host to estimate the ground strip time. Another advantage of this is to generate sequence number wraparound on great fast networks. Because sequence number is 30 to this and that can wrap around and the TCP timestamp allows you to tell the difference between 2 packets with the same sequence number. So that's how you collect timestamps, but now you've got them. What can you actually do about them? I am going to have to choose a lot of technology. The offset is the difference between 2 clocks. So the offset between this clock and that clock on the wall is when you subtract the 2 times. If they were perfectly synchronised that would be 0. If they were off by some constant then the difference to offset between 2 clocks would stay the same. But if this one is running faster than that one then the offset will change over time. And this is what this graph shows. Each of these lines is a different computer and each of these dots which you can barely see is a sample of me asking for a timestamp from that machine. And as you can see this host drifts down here this host which is over a chance of landing length the green one is more or less static and then there's another 3 or 4 machines that are going off in a different direction. This is interesting because a single computer will have a fairly constant skew. Skew is the rate of change on the offset. So it means you can, by measuring the skew of another computer, you can get a fair amount of information about that computer's identity. There was a paper from Yoshi Kono from Kaida and Keist. Yoshi Kono is at the University of Washington and Keisty Clampy from Kaida measured this for a large collection of computers and they found that even if you have the same model of computer the clock skews will vary significantly across them up to 50 parts per million. But on one machine it will work very well over the day by one or two parts per million. A few applications of this fingerprinting technique one is that you can identify a machine if it moves ISP it changes IP address it's still going to have the same clock speed. Even if they change physical location and you've got no idea which ISP it was when you see it again you will be able to roughly guess if it's the same computer. Similarly if you have network traces it's common for measurement techniques you'll get a non-managed traces of information being sent across them to net. They'll take off IP addresses but if you can find out the clock skew based on the TCP timestamp then you'll be able to find out if you've seen this computer before. Another very neat experiment that Kono has added was Nuckeits, virtual machines like the one generated by Honey. HoneyD generates a very large number of machines so someone who's trying to attack that virtual network will think there's lots of machines and this is a big company and it's all worth by attacking. In fact if you measure the clock skew of all these machines it turns out to be the same because they're all sitting on the same physical machine and in fact HoneyD has now been updated in order to generate a random clock skew for all the different virtual machines. Another trick is if you have a net everything coming into that net will have the same IP address but by looking at how many distinct clock skew the clock skew measurements there are you can identify how many machines that are behind that and one sort of a site almost that the paper mentioned was the clock skew changes over time I mentioned one or two parts per million and one of the potential reasons of this is temperature but the paper didn't really go into much more detail about that and that's where I came in and to do a little bit a little bit more work on that. So I mentioned that science isn't about anything I didn't think about the temperature initially at all I guess. Is there a question on that? Because you said that you can count the number of machine on the net and you only get like 5-6 bits of information about that. Yeah. I mean it's not possible to count more than what I said earlier also. On average yes but in pathological cases where machines diverge far more than you'd expect just by running then you're really able to count more. Another measurement of the 5-6 bits is for machines which were absolutely identical hardware where you have machines with different operating systems and different hardware then diverging more than that. The way I came into this was not thinking about temperature it was a good idea or even coming close to that I wanted to collect better measurements than what the original was on the actual picture you mentioned a bit. I saw that they used TCP time stamps which at best run at one kilograms but I noticed because of their entirely unrelated paper that TCP initial sequence numbers on Linux have one megahertz counter so that's a factor of sense and difference so I thought using this faster counter I could do better and I tried to do that and the results were just weird I was expecting that I'd start off with noise about that weight and then jump about that weight actually I got an entirely crazy graph of two peaks and I puzzled for a while why this was actually happening and then looked into a bit more detail and at two o'clock in the morning the clocks could change anyone guess fine? Time flow it was Tron Tron woke up and updated the Acebook 8 database that spun up the hard disk and that warmed up the computer and that was enough and decided to investigate exactly what that is so this graph shows how the clock speed and the graph's y axis change the temperature and the scale goes from minus 50 to 100 degrees celsius that's the specifications for the clock trust me while I look at that and it changes and it changes between minus 20 and plus 20 that's quite a lot but on the hand I go from minus 50 to 100 if you want them to keep on working so this is the same graph it's zoomed in to where a normal PC will sit and I measure that when I'm sitting in my office going from no load down here up to high load this isn't the CPU temperature this is the case temperature because it's a clock crystal it's not sitting on the CPU it's somewhere in the corner and now the clock speed changes far less when I measure that it's less than one but on different dimensions of the crystal it doesn't sound very much but it's major so here's the same graph again these are several different computers that I measure the offset for and as you can see this is the same version but these look very close to straight lines and the clock speed is changing you wouldn't be straight lines so you have to do something a little bit more clever first of all you take lots and lots of data and then you take those lines that are up there and then you shift all the points down by subtracting the linear component of the offset and now you get a graph like this the scale is far less so in this previous graph it's minus 20 and over a few minutes on this graph it's only going to minus 2 and this is about 24 and there's a lot more data in here and you can see it's also very noisy this noise is a problem so we want to remove it somehow and the obvious thing to do which is also the right thing to do is just draw a line over the top so that's what I did and this is the denoise version of the offset but I don't want the offset I want the skew that's the slope of this set each of these line segments and overtime, in other words differentiation sorry and now you have a graph like this so you can see that the skew is gradually going up over here and then the skew drops and then it starts letting up if you remember the clock skew changes in the opposite direction to the temperature and that's why I've actually flipped this axis so this is high skew and this is the most skew and if we compare this to the temperature you can see it's actually a pretty good match as on the site I find the temperature was changing at about 8 o'clock in the morning and it certainly wasn't because I was in my office it turned out to be a fuck in the building temperature controller it's far too smart for a zone route what it does overnight this was in the summer overnight it looks at how fast the building is cooling but what it doesn't look at is whether any windows are open so in summer people leave the windows open the building controller sees that because the windows are open they're cooling very fast so then around 8 o'clock in the morning the panics and things they're always going to be really cold if the sun doesn't come off and then it turns on the heating so it turns on the heating and then the sun comes up and it starts panicking so it's probably too hot and it turns on the heating so being a security researcher is a bit of a strange occupation once you've done something in the years you're like what can I break now and I've been working on TOR for a while to break projects they actually hired me recently but I like breaking TOR I've written a few papers on this and I thought I can do it again so for those of you who don't know about TOR it's an anonymisation service if you want to browse a website and you don't want to interact you can use TOR to do this so here is me looking at Google and this all happens in Europe it turns out that I actually come out in Denmark yes I can do a few other neat things one is that it can have post hidden websites so-called hidden services I'm going to talk about those later but actually most people use it for this anonymous web browsing facility and also get TOR it works by taking your data encrypting it under multiple layers and then sending it through a set of volunteer TOR nodes there's around about a thousand nodes now each of these nodes will take one layer off, look where the data is meant to be sent to next and pass it on and that means that the data coming into each TOR node looks different from the data coming out what it doesn't do is introduce any delay for those of you who don't know about the anonymous media and premiums they delay a message if you did that for web browsing TOR is already pretty slow so it doesn't introduce any delay and it makes it vulnerable to a certain type of attack so I've mentioned about hidden services I'll give a brief overview about how these work the details are entirely important but maybe I'll address there are three stages to that the hidden service up here was the publisher website they connect to TOR nodes they chosen a random called the introduction point and makes a permanent connection to there and it sends that over two other TOR nodes so the introduction point doesn't know the real idea of this hidden server the hidden server then sends the address of the introduction point to the directory server these are three or so producers run by the operators of the TOR network now time passes and the client wants to access this hidden service it connects to the directory server and asks what is the introduction point for this hidden service and it gets this back then the client connects to a node called the roundy viewpoint this time the client chooses it over two TOR nodes and makes a permanent connection to that and then the client sends to the introduction point same one over here the address of the roundy viewpoint and that gets passed on to the hidden server in the final stage the hidden service connects to the roundy viewpoint makes a connection there and the roundy viewpoint is still connected to the client and they can now send data back and forth after all this the client doesn't know where the hidden service is and also the hidden service doesn't know where the client is that's exactly what you want from hidden servers and hidden servers are used for real data one of the more high profile cases was there was a drug called plexia and employee probably of the company who produces that drug released some documents which said that it had much worse side effects than the company was disclosing and those documents had been pretty much removed from the internet by the lawyers acting on behalf of the company who produced this but they're still available on torian services so someone's using this to protect them from at very least a very serious court case so it's important to understand exactly how well tor works and personally be able to know if there are any weaknesses how serious they are and if at all possible fix them so one attack on tor is by lasso over there from norway and Paul cybersome from usd research labs and the goal of this attack is to de-anonymise hidden service I mentioned before the connection set on this is the last stage and the interesting thing is this node over here is around the chosen part of node is the idea of this of this hidden service it doesn't know at this point that it's being connected to the hidden service and it doesn't know what is the pseudonym of this hidden service that the current one is but I mentioned before it doesn't introduce any delay in the data sense so the client wants to find out the new idea of this server can send lots of data and stop for a little while send lots of data and then stop for instance this node is controlled by a malicious client it will see the same pattern and then it will know that the pseudonym that the client is talking to it matches the idea of this of the hidden service there's 1000 tor nodes so there's only 1000 chance roughly that the hidden tor node will be on here but what a client can do is just keep on connecting until it sees the correct hidden service and this works surprisingly well within 15 minutes or so you can de-anonymize the tor hidden service so Paul and Lassa came up with a fix against this which is rather than this node which is the critical one here being chosen at random it's chosen at random once and then it's fixed for the life of that node which means that if the client starts meeting lots of connections this one will stay the same so if the hidden service is unlucky and it so happens the first one you chose so go card node is malicious then it's lost but otherwise it should be safe I have a question? Yes How does the the match one who knows that it is talking to the server and not another server? Every tor server is registered in the tor directory so that means that the last node you can see if the hidden server is also a tor node if it is then maybe it just happens to be one of these other two and if it's not it's probably the hidden service but even if the hidden service is also a tor node which is better in some cases for security although it's actually worse then you can just keep on trying and two of the tor nodes will change at random and then one node will stay the same and that's the hidden service so you might have to do multiple times but eventually it will work in that previous attack I assumed that the attacker can snoop on the network it can become part of the network in case it's work that's true because anyone can join but what happens if it can't let's assume that the attacker is entirely external to the network it can use it it can send data through it but it can't actually introduce any nodes of its own then this scenario is that we have a two web server and then the victim is looking at web page on that web server the web server wants to find out if the client is and the client doesn't want to leak its identity to the web server what the attacker can do is send in a funny pattern send lots of data for a few minutes and then stop and do this over and over and then the attacker has another user which simultaneously probes the latency of all the tor nodes in the network there's only a thousand or so if you want to botnet then that's quite easy and for this tor node it will get another funny pattern back and it's not the same so it knows that this one of the stream going to the client is not going to this tor node but if it codes this one when the data that it's looking for is going through then it will get the same pattern back and eventually over time you can track whether a given connection is going through a tor node without even being part of the network all you have to do is get it or maybe you can use tor to send data over it and watch how much the data comes back and that's the theory but we actually had to try it and here's one graph on the top whenever there's a gray bar I'm sending some data I'm being the victim of the e-webs however in this case so here I'm sending lots of data then I stop for a few minutes send data then I stop and the simple thing is that I measure the latency going through all the tor nodes and this tor node is the latency and as you can see when I send data to the tor node its latency jumps a lot and this one is quite blatant there are other nodes that we look at which then have quite as good a correlation but over enough time you can discover whether data is being sent to the tor node you're interested in so this tag is pretty bad it doesn't tell you who the client is but it does tell you the path that the client took to the e-webs server so it released and prevented and this seems like a typical quality of service problem the tor node servers so busy servicing one request that it's delaying all other ones so you can use a quality of service feature in order to prevent the attack that is that you set a rule that no stream going through a node can affect any other stream this could be implemented by a tor node generating a fixed number of streams that is able to handle and breaching nodes have a maximum data rate and accept no more traffic than that maximum this also means that when one stream that is allocated one circuit is using less of this bandwidth than the capacity allocated the server can give that to any other stream because they now give a measurable signature so it just has to sit there and do nothing when it's doing nothing it's not going to do as much encryption and then it will cool down and then it's temperature the temperature will decrease and then this clock screw will change so that's the theory but I want to actually try that and it works basically here's the graph same graph, probably the same graph as before I'll go through it one of these dots is one measurement of offset and you can see there's lots of noise here then I've got a green line over the top of it to get rid of the noise and then the blue line is differentiating that green line and when I'm sending data to the core node the blue line gets high and then when I stop it goes down and this correlates very well with the temperature for the purpose of the experiment and see this although realistically an attacker wouldn't be able to do that I've just given one example of how you can use temperature as a forward channel for an attack but it's a communication channel that can be used for random inter-process communication in some systems there's a rule that two computers two processes on that computer are not permitted to communicate say for example when the top secret program is processing satellite photos and then the other one is the payroll application where it's got lots of bugs and some key information to the internet if those are running on the same computer you want to make sure that no information can leak from the satellite photo program down to the payroll program one way of beating a measure like this if you close off all standards communication channels or the high level process to send them in some unconventional way back even in the 1970s it was realised that if you use up lots of CPU in one type on one process then other processes are going to be started so to send a one the top secret program can use up lots of CPU time and then the payroll application will recognise that it's getting very little if it wants to send a zero the top secret application will run for a third time and then the payroll application sees that it speeds up consequently there's a defence against this where you allocate every process think for a time slot and you don't allocate that to any other process even if that process isn't using it this reduces efficiency but it eliminates that over a channel but this is similar to the case I just described when that time slice has not been used by anyone and the CPU will go down another program to detect it it uses time source to act as a reference clock and this could be something like ATV or if it can't get access to network it can just compare its own measurement of time to another clock crystal in the machine it mentions that a PC might have up to half a dozen clock crystals one is on the SIM card it can just compare its own percentage from the time to the SIM card and it should know the temperature of change another case is crossing air gap security boundaries air gap security boundaries are supposed to be basically impenetrable you don't want two computers to communicate you put them in separate points in the rack but heat rises if one computer runs up then the one above it is going to do a change of temperature as well and we've had confirmation from another person that he can cause a three degree temperature difference by warming up the computer below it in the case of a blade server you are going to do even better because then you've got a very tight couple between each of the blades to confirm this I would set a blade server so instead I took this one up here and put it inside of my PC case and then turned it on and off to our favorites and you can see that I'm getting a corresponding oscillation in temperature and also I'm going to take this using clock scoop I hope just pretty sure I'm trying to make it better as well and another attack against Tor is if you take over enough of the Tor network, again it's only a thousand Tor nodes that's timing then there's a good chance that one of your servers will be both the first and the last clock on the Tor connection then you do the same trick as before you correlate the amount of traffic coming in with the amount of traffic going out and then you know who's going to where so this attack has been known since the beginnings of the onion routing project packet in the department of defence so when 30 Tor nodes came up all on the same two slash six teams started getting nervous then there's a tracer to them and found it on Washington near FDI and then people were really nervous and also how many people can get two slash 16s yes some places have two slash 16s but your average ISP doesn't so a lot of people started investigating them and I knew about this temperature coerce handle thing so I applied here and these are six measurements I got from the 30 Tor nodes and I can learn two things from this firstly there's the constant screw between all of these machines so I mentioned that in the Kono et al attack machines can divert 15 parts per minute in the cases of these six computers they were all the same and also you can see that they're changing in the same pattern of equations they're roughly the same environment so basically these graphs you can guess that they are the same machine and almost certainly they were another way to do this was I tried SSH into them and being very wise they blocked SSH from both blocks and these are Tor nodes so you make a path to the Tor network from the node to itself and then it's by the parallel and then you can log in and then try to get a password probably illegal but I didn't get the host key and it was the same for actually there are two host keys we can guess that there are probably only two computers here and there are not virtual machines because they're all the same the same host key just one machine was not to write the addresses and then Tor is bound to each of my addresses so we got more thinking and found out actually it was rather nice and in turn it wasn't the Stoogs it was just someone who thought that he really liked Tor and one Tor would be good so 30 Tor nodes would be great but he was causing a problem so this problem is now being fixed and the person doing many nodes has to be not to say who he was sorry sorry he's one of the types of people who isn't a Spook who does have large numbers of signs but I hate messes so there's a lot of fat on the other end yeah but there's lots of people in universities in places like that get to the door so this is pretty crazy but we can actually go a bit further and I just want to note that for any of you who come from warmer places temperature changes depending on where you are on the earth and also changes over the day other than the fact that it's realized by a building controller in my lab so based on the temperature and which is likely to clock-shoot the dimensions are when sunrise was on that place there and also the length of day changes depending on your latitude so based on the temperature the length of the day and when the midday or sunrise actually occurs you can roughly guess for something I haven't tried this but let's do the source codes on the webpage an obvious problem with these types of attacks is what happens if the server is running NTP in practice this isn't much of a problem firstly, NTP changes clock very slowly if it starts to change it very fast then as soon as one NTP packet is being delayed then it will jump dramatically although over time NTP will destroy any absolute screw between computers which will defeat the fingerprinting attack when the temperature changes it will change fast it can often change faster then NTP can adjust it this introduces some problems when you're trying to measure it by the fact you can bypass any of these problems by just using a different type of clock so while ICFP timestamps are under links adjusted by NTP TCP sequence numbers aren't and that's for every reason if you have a clock, then sometimes the clock will slow or sometimes it will look faster and you'll actually need that for TCP timestamps 3DSP is pretty similar but it looks like ICP timestamps are going to be safe but TCP timestamps come from the instrument controller so aren't all TCP sequence numbers as I mentioned are randomized so not particularly helpful to estimate clock speed so if NTP doesn't help what can be done better you can block time information you can block TCP timestamps and so on and that will defeat some types of attacks but it's not going to affect things like the packet interrupt timer when a TCP connection is tested it will drop and that comes after a timer interrupt and as the timer interrupts are being adjusted by NTP then you'll be able to take that and the other thing you can do is keep on running the CPU from load no matter what happens this is pretty inefficient and also I noticed that depending on exactly what you're doing with the CPU the texture difference will change for example there's a problem called CPU burn which will cause a very big difference in the temperature but actually just doing crypto doesn't increase that as much you can install the temperature compensated crystal this is called this little temperature sensor on it and then adjust it to the clock temperature this might not be good enough because it sticks but these show one part per million accuracy and the texture introduces a smaller difference than that and can be detected if you want to go one level up you can get uncompensated crystals these have little heaters in it and try to keep that constant temperature these work better but the right expensive ones are also by power hungry I'm using a different set of slides than to present so I mentioned that there's lots of noise in these samples and here's another graph and in fact this graph is a good case here you can see there's this band noise now this comes because clocks don't have inferred precision they actually run down the time stamps so when you ask for the time you'll get a slight amount of inaccuracy the other source of noise is network jitter sometimes accuracy will be delayed but in cases like this it's quantization noise that's a big problem I'll go into a bit more detail on this the quantization noise of a sample depends on how close that sample was to a clock edge so imagine I think that my watch is a little bit too fast or too slow so I ask someone what's the time if they tell me accurately I'll be able to guess when the time stamps that out and guess the difference between my clock and their clock and then correct it but now let's suppose that I think my watch is five minutes either too slow or too fast but the person who's going to hit me isn't going to be that much help and then they will just tell me if it's before or after five o'clock now if I asked quarter an hour ago then regardless of how fast my watch is they would always give me the same answer and it would be no use to so what I should do is wait till it's almost I think it's almost exactly five o'clock and then ask them the time and then depending on whether they ask whether they think it's before or after they'll give me a different answer so to overall make sure this is the closer this is to the clock this is a sample and this is a clock tick this is the clock increasing on a time closer to the sample is to one of these lines the lower the error is going to be another graph this one is the quantization error so in the best case I can get a one tell error clock and that has a period of one millisecond in some other operating systems the GCP time stamp clock is 250 errors so in that case the end of that bar will be somewhere over here but other clocks for example the one in the HTTP time stamp is one hertz so that means any noise a few hundred meters over in that direction and that's when the noise will destroy the type of noise that I'm doing so some work that Sebastian Zander's been doing with me is trying to reduce this noise by asking the question at the right time this is just what I mentioned before if you want to ask someone the time you ask either when you think when their clock takes place to happen so if they take one error in case of someone who will tell me whether before or after an error I should ask that at that point when they're going to change their answer and we can now compare with the noise we get with these blue dots these blue dots are intentionally as close as possible to the clock takes and you can see here it's a little bit after and here it's a little bit before and this is basically what the technique that Sebastian and I worked on does the algorithm works by the it first works along the typing standards it sends out packets in sequential times until it sees a clock tick and then it goes roughly when that clock tick is it knows roughly when the next one is going to be so it tries to get before and tries to get after in the guess guess is right then it can start guessing much closer to when the clock tick is but the guess is wrong for example it sends one with when it thinks it's before and one with when it thinks it's after in terms of both reports then it whitens that error and then starts guessing again and over time it will start converging on the correct value and this is the graph which is going to get out and much more examples are extremely wrong and pretty much everything all the noise here is caused by the network and this is almost this is almost in pain of the clock frequency so even if you have a really slow clock like the one maker's 80 degree clock then you still get very good noise quality so in summary the results are a vital attack in theory it should all work but actually when you try it, it does I gave an example of when you can track Tor ahead services by warming up the server and then measuring the result by the clock skew and also it is custom on the ways that it's possible to use Tentra core channels in situations like multi-level even crossing ERC security boundaries in hostly thermally coupled racks or blaze arrows I also mentioned that a more general message that is true not in the case of these examples but in other areas of our research no one thought that temperature was a security critical quantity and if you look at the system that is secure in the astring designers were thinking of introducing more to that abstraction you start to find additional attacks so even if you have a system that you think is secure start thinking a common phrase think of weird things that someone might actually try it probably won't work but maybe it will and it may turn out that the system is not as good as you might have thought how long does it actually take to say fingerprint a machine so if you're just trying to figure between the number of candidates it can be tens of minutes in the case of temperature it's closer to overnight because although we can get very clever techniques where we're moving the noise actually the smaller amount of time that you run the experiment the smaller difference in absolute difference between two clocks and they were just the start of the problem at all so we realized there would be errors in your attempt to reduce the measurement noise you realize that you could actually use DSP technologies to do that because if the radical quantization error is a grant function and you have a number of samples of that which corresponds to an over sector so if you fill in the blanks with non-measurements you actually get the base frequency at a very high position and you get the faithful image and you do that with very few samples yes, but you still need to sample out the right points then you'll know where the right points are yes so the nice thing to be when you add it is it may actually be the same it may be the same as what you're restraining because it's a POL it's a low loop so the last thing we've been doing most of the work in this I suggest the idea of a while while we're just a little bit I say one of my papers and then he's been working on some fairly advanced control algorithms for me as well hopefully you'll be able to score them online soon as well have you tried to play with the Blitz kernels to see if you were able to see your measurements no, I haven't that would be interesting but what do you really look to properly you can see it's pretty much the same but the Teclos kernels will be very interesting well you've made these Teclos kernels some much better well what I think on your comments on your content comment on why you said it was proper to use the top green one above your red dots yeah so in the case of this graph if the temperature wasn't changing you would have a smooth line at both the top and the bottom but when you start measuring over a large length then you start having a network jitter and the reason you choose the top length is because in the top length the network jitter is zero up here there's actually loads of points off here so there isn't a clean bottom line but there isn't a clean top line I don't have a clutch in mind as you have a clutch a variable clutch yes, you can't get a latency less than zero and that's why you have a clean top line but latency if you want the seconds when you're going across some money resource think outside the box


I'm interested in co-operatives, I suppose, because over the last few years I've become more and more interested in how people and communities can take ownership of what they do and take more control over what they do and to try and create more equality as well, and the more I've become interested in those sort of issues, the more it inevitably brings you towards things like co-operative ownership systems, social enterprise, community share schemes, that kind of stuff. So I love the concept a bit. I feel like in the kind of communities that I'm from in the South Wales Valleys areas, these are communities that grew up during the industrial revolution around industry, so the industry was a sort of more traditional capitalist model, but the communities themselves were based on a kind of mutuality. All our welfare halls and miners institutes came from money from the pay packets of the men who were working there. Ideas like the Trudiga Cottage Hospital that served as a model according to an Iron Bevan for the NHS system, that was a similar idea of mutuality, people coming together to support and help themselves. And so I feel like in the DNA of the communities that I come from there is a kind of sympathy for the idea of just working together, cooperating. And there's a clear need I think in those communities that have suffered so much from deindustrialisation, that have lost a lot of services, lost a lot of amenities. There's a real desire to want to take back what they've lost. The tools for doing that kind of thing I think do lie in cooperatives and social enterprise and community shares, but those communities don't often feel connected to those ideas as concepts there, they're not familiar with them, so there's a kind of a disconnect going on there. So I want to try and put as much energy as I can into bringing those two things together, the need, the desire and the tools. And I think the more I can learn about it, the more I can sound like I know what I'm talking about when I do talk about it, and the more I can help people hopefully or help to offer them up to the tools at least so they can help themselves, I think that's something that I would really like to devote a lot more energy to. The strength of the cooperative movement is in what it says, it's about cooperation, it's about solidarity and it's an international movement. And I think if we don't want to just tinker around the edges of trying to make a fairer economy, not just in this country but across the world, then we have to really not just play around the edges, we have to get our hands into the machine and change the guts of the machine and we can only do that if there is as much solidarity in this movement as possible because that is a big, big ask. And there's a lot of resistance to it, but if it is, if it can connect up on an international basis, I think the kind of the work ethic, the dignity and the respect that's inherent in the movement and the innovation that's in the movement, I think it can overcome anything, but it will only happen if there's solidarity, not just between cooperatives in this country but all across the world. But if they do come together and do that, I think they can change the world.


Welcome to the ITU Plenipotentiary Conference 2022 here in Bucharest in Romania. We're very pleased to be joined in the studio today by Dan Scherblum, who is the Director-General of the Swedish Post and Telecommunications Authority. Dan, welcome to the studio. Thank you very much. Pleased to be here. Now, I'd like to ask you, you've, you're obviously, I'm sure you're a busy man. Why have you prioritized your week here at the ITU Plenipotentiary Conference? Well, the Plenipotentiary Conference is a very important event, obviously for the ITU. It's where we elect the coming periods, top officials, and with digitization spreading through our daily lives and our private and professional activities, the focus of that new leadership on digital is something that we think is very important. So we want to ensure that we have the best opportunity for the coming period, which will be critical for everyone, I think. And in terms of key priorities, what are Sweden's key priorities during this conference? Yeah, so back to the digital development I just mentioned, we are strongly committed to activities to bridging the remaining digital divide, which affects us everywhere. We really want to think of digital as opportunities. There's so much good in digital for us on a personal level, on a professional level for our businesses and for our governments, with the government having so much potential. But in order to realize any or all of that across the globe, we really have to reach out and connect those who are not yet connected. And for us, it's very important also that we don't merely talk about connections in the physical format, but we need to build trust in systems to get people to be comfortable with sharing their data, as you may have to do for many of these services. And also the abilities of less fortunate groups, groups that are significantly behind when we talk about the digital divide. In my country, we often talk about elderly people. We talk about the people with functional variations. We talk about newly arrived immigrants. And more and more we're actually talking about some of the younger generation. They may be very happy with their games, but they are not always so connected in terms of real connectivity. So those are areas that we believe are important for the coming period. I was going to ask you, but in terms of sort of challenges of connectivity, I would imagine Stockholm's, I mean, smart city, it's there's no major challenges there, but is the rest of the country as well connected? So we have a lot of experience in what it takes to connect a large and sparsely populated country. There are many difficulties and we have been at it for a long time and we still believe that there may be like one in ten that needs to have much better physical connectivity than is the case today. And then, as I mentioned, also the building the trust and getting people to be in the right mindset to actually use the services and therefore bring on the opportunities. That's very much our focus and we would bring that into our experience. But we've also been very much active in the international scene. So we have for almost ten years now been running a capacity building program together with our development agency in sub-Saharan Africa where we really work on peer to peer engagement. So it's their projects that we develop together in a format that I'm very committed to. I think that's it's been a great success and many of the the participants have spoken very warmly about the experience. So that's also something that we would bring into what we would like to see the ITU doing more in terms of bridging the digital divide. OK, well, let's talk about ITU. I mean, you mentioned this is a very important conference. It decides really that the future of ITU for the next four years. How do you see the future of ITU in the forthcoming future? Yes, well, I'd like to think of it very positively. Of course, I think there's so much opportunity. So I think we all just need to to accept that we are at the place where we can can make an impact and say, let's use digital for good and for good for whom, for good for the people, for our constituencies, for everyone, let's bring everyone on board. And let's make it open, transparent and accessible to everyone. And I think that's that's really one road ahead for for the ITU that we should choose to take. There are many other roads that we could potentially take, which would not lead us in that good direction. So it is a very important time for the ITU to go in the right direction. Moving forward. Well, thank you for taking the time to be with us in the studio today. And hopefully we'll catch up with you at some stage in the very near future. Maybe we'll come and see your work in Sweden. You will be most welcome. Thank you very much. Thank you very much indeed, Dan.


What comes to mind when you think of leadership? For some people they would say well it has to do with charisma. Do you have a leader with charisma? Somebody who is engaging and popular and and somebody who can connect with audiences and really have them feel what they're saying and and where they're trying to go. For other people it has to do with is this person inspirational that they have great ideas and do they are able to to motivate people and inspire people toward great action. For other people it's are they at the top of that organizational hierarchy? But for some that would just indicate a boss not a leader somebody who's not necessarily a great leader but could be the boss nonetheless. So in this video we want to take a look at what it is that makes a leader and some different perspectives on leadership in general. So we're going to start by exploring the foundations of leadership. First of all to define leadership. Leadership is the ability of an individual or group to influence and guide others toward the achievement of a goal. So let's take a look at that in a couple of important ways. First of all leadership has to do with their ability to influence and guide others. So influence and guide not necessarily demand or threaten those types of things but leadership comes from our ability to will will power and and to direct people through influence and guidance. Leadership also has to do with others. It's hard to be a leader if you don't have any followers. If you don't have anybody who's willing to listen to you or to to be guided by you or influenced by you. So leadership is important and it's important to be a leader, but it's also important to have others involved in that process. And finally leadership involves the achievement of a goal. Leaders aren't just guiding people around on a you know walking tour of a city with no purpose in mind. Leaders have and groups with a leader have the achievement of a goal in mind as their primary purpose. Now that we know a little bit about what we mean by leader, let's differentiate that a little bit from manager. So we're going to talk a little bit about the differences between leadership and management. So we can start with the idea that first of all management is an organizational construct. Management by definition has to do with organizational hierarchy and structure. And so it's put into place somebody who's a manager or influences through management is put there by virtue of their place in that organizational hierarchy. Whereas leadership involves a human element. People follow a leader because they want to they believe in that person. People listen to a manager because they're required to based on organizational norms and structures. People follow a leader because of that human element. There's a human connection there. Another difference between management and leadership is that management involves efficiency of process. It involves getting something done in the most efficient way possible. Leadership however involves the development of potential. We're investing in people. We're investing in processes. We're investing in all these ideas because we see the potential there through proper development, right? So it's not about making small tweaks to make things more efficient. It's about the development of the potential in that person or in that process. Management has to do with the present. Management has to do with what are people doing now? What should we be fixing right now? What's happening in the organization right this moment? Leadership though is really about the future. Again, it's about the development of that potential. It's looking forward past this present moment into how is this going to look in the future? What's this person going to be able to accomplish in the future? So leadership has to do with the future as opposed to management, which has to do with right now. Management is also about supervision. It's about making sure that people are doing what they're supposed to be doing when they're supposed to be doing it. Leadership, though, is about casting a vision and getting people to do those things and buy into those things by casting that vision and really not then requiring as much direct supervision under leadership. They may require some management, but under leadership, we're just casting that vision. Leadership is not about supervising people, right? In that moment, it's about pushing people forward into the future through that vision. Now, to be clear, management and leadership oftentimes go hand in hand. The best leaders are also good managers and the most effective managers are oftentimes the best leaders as well, as well, an effective at leadership because as different as they are, they really work hand in hand together in order to accomplish that goal and achieve the goal. Hopefully, we have a little bit better idea of what we mean by leadership now. We're just establishing that foundation and we will continue to have this conversation about leadership through the different types of leadership functions and styles. But in this video, just providing a bit of a foundation on what it means to be a leader and how that differentiates itself from being a manager.


All right, so today we took a trip to Ikea and bought a couch which is still being assembled over here But at the same time I wanted to buy some LED lights for these little lamps here We have a round and I still have a little 25 watt bulb in them and it bothers me that I still have that not energy efficient at all So I noticed they have these little Tiny bulbs. It's an LED. It's only four and a half watts And 200 lumens so it's equivalent of about a 25 maybe a 30 watt light bulb And I put them in these one of these is incandescent one of these is LED I just asked my wife which one's which she guess this was the LED. That's wrong. It's actually the incandescent This one's actually the LED. So I thought it was really cool that they're close enough that it actually fooled her I think that's the first time that's happened yet. So This will last about 20,000 hours, which is 10 man years if it was on 40 hours a week So hopefully I won't have to replace these bulbs until we break these lamps That's the hope and it's one of the reasons that I really like LEDs


You used to work in a hedge fund, broker house. How was that key to where you got today and learning how to trade the markets? I think it designed and defined who I am today. And you were exposed at some point, I was managing the exposure of the trading room. And at some point you started to see what people do in terms of position. And I was, I got myself in this place where I like, how can I make money if I do exactly what these people do, right? And they lose money. So something has to change. And it changed my mindset completely. And since then I found a world of cycles and the technical world. And I started to develop these techniques for myself. And it led me to make the decisions based on when people panic or people start to get angry with everything happens in the market. When people, in simple words, when people buy, I'm looking for possibilities to sell.


Back in 2018, September, we interviewed Oscar Trimboli for the podcast, and he walked us through the five layers of listening, and we're so excited to unpack them for you here because this will change the way you view listening in a conversation and allow you to become a more active listener and a better communicator. The first layer is listening to yourself. That inner monologue that we all hear, for some of us, it might be critical in social situations. For some of us, it might be the comedian who just wants to jump in with the witty one-liner and get people laughing, or it might just be anticipation of, oh, this person's gonna say that, so then I can go ahead and say this. But that first layer of listening really impacts your ability to communicate clearly and powerfully if all you're really concerning yourself with is what's going on inside your head. We need to actually listen to the other person move beyond that first layer to be an impactful listener. AJ, just a few weeks ago, we dropped an influence episode that had some clips from Vanessa Bonds, and she had also mentioned that that first level of listening is for opportunities for us to reply. And if you are listening for spaces to which you can reply, you're not listening to what they're saying. Well, that brings up the second layer of listening, listening for content. Now, a lot of us might work in really analytical jobs where all of the data and information has to be parsed, has to be problem solved, and you have to come up with a solution. So you might be very adept at listening to the second layer, the content. Where is AJ from? What type of music does Johnny like? What color shirt is Michael wearing? That's his favorite. This is the content that the other person is sharing with us. It's the data collection.  But we have to move beyond just those first two layers because that's really where the magic starts to happen. Now, the second layer is listening to the context. This is about the assumptions that people are making. What is actually going on? What's the frame of reference that they're working from in sharing this information? So for example, if I'm in a professional setting, I'm probably going to share differently in my communication than I would in a social environment or at the bar. My stories are going to be different. The sides of my personality that I choose to share are going to be different in that context. So an adept listener is actually listening beyond just the data but then thinking about what's the context behind what this person is sharing with me and is there something that I can pick up on in that context that I can use in my communication in my response to them? Now, the fourth layer and when we practice this in our implementation session, this is really when the light bulb goes off. The fourth layer is the unsaid. You have to be listening so intently that you're picking up on, well, what is AJ withholding in his communication? What is he glossing over? What hasn't been shared but is implied, right? So if I'm sharing a story about something, maybe I'm hyper-focused on the setting but I'm not really sharing who I'm with or maybe I'm talking about my work and I'm talking about a big project but I'm not really sharing the department that I work in, right? What is the unsaid? What am I holding back? And that's a great opportunity for you to explore, to get the person to share even more because if you can pull out the unsaid in conversation, you're actually a powerful communicator.