Hello and welcome to this session in which we will discuss distributions from corporation What's the big picture? Well when the corporation was formed by the shareholders It was formed by shareholders contributing money and property to form the corporation and remember in the prior session We looked at section three five one when we said if this transaction is under section three five one It's not taxable in return the corporation issue stocks to the owners simply put these individuals Become owners in this corporation. So this is how the corporation is formed at some point Money will start to flow also the other way From the corporation to the shareholders in form of distribution Now, why would that happen? Well, think about what what was the original motivation for the shareholders? Why did the shareholders invest it in the company? Why do you invest? You invest to earn money to earn cash. How do you earn the cash? The company Operates for example every year they prepare an 1120, which is the tax return. They list their revenues They list their expenses and hopefully the company will earn a profit. They will have more revenues than expenses What's gonna happen? Part of that profit Will be a distribution to the shareholders now notice I am being specific and using the term distributions because not all distributions Will be dividend so notice distribution is not the same of dividend because the first thing we are going to discuss is The three types of distribution. We're gonna have three types of distribution Knowing what type of distribution we are dealing with will determine its the tax consequences of that distribution So, let's go ahead and get started by discussing the three types of distributions Before we proceed any further. I have a public announcement about my company farhat lectures comm Farhat accounting lectures is a supplemental educational tool That's gonna help you with your CPA exam preparation as well as your accounting courses My CPA material is aligned with your CPA review course such as Becker Roger Wiley Gleam miles. My accounting courses are aligned with your accounting courses broken down by chapter and topics My resources consist of lectures multiple choice questions through false questions as well as exercises Go ahead start your free trial today. The three types of distribution are first is dividend To recovery of capital three capital gain So any distribution might be classified under any of these categories and there are different tax consequences So we're gonna learn what each category is and how do we determine whether a distribution is dividends? Recovery of capital, which is we're gonna abbreviate as ROC or capital gains. What is dividend? Well, the dividend could be cash dividend so they can pay you cash Dividend dividend they could give you a property dividend some sort of a property or they could give you additional stock in proportion To your current Position so if you own 10% and they distribute 100 different stocks You'll get 10 of them and we're gonna talk about each one of those separately in a separate session whether it's cash property or stock How do we tax dividend? Well, it's a long-term Capital gain which is at the alternative rate as long as the dividend is considered a qualified dividend and what we mean long-term capital It could be zero 15 or 20% I hope you know this otherwise go to the Alternative rate or qualified dividend rate or the dividend is could be ordinary dividend, which is non Qualified dividend and if it's non qualified dividend guess what it's taxed at the ordinary rate The ordinary rate is the highest level of dividend Did the distribution might be considered recovery of capital? What is recovery of capital? Recovery of capital means we are giving you your money back Do you remember here at some point we contributed at the beginning when we formed this corporation? We contributed cash and property what we're saying here if it's considered ROC This distribution is giving you back your money and if we are giving you back your money That's a recovery of capital recovery of capital is not taxable. It's a recovery of the basis. It's a tax-free transaction now If it's not dividend if it's not recovery of capital, we're gonna see what determine whether it's a dividend or recovery of capital shortly Then it's capital gain usually it's long-term capital gain It's also taxed at the long-term capital gain alternative rate Which is the same thing as qualified dividend and why when is it capital gain? We're gonna have to determine when for each one. Now, let me tell you from a motivational perspective What do investors prefer? Well investors would prefer the least the distribution to be classified as a dividend So as a shareholder, they don't want the distribution to be Classified as a dividend. Why because if it's ordinary dividend, it's gonna be ordinary income If it's qualified dividend, they will have you know a lower rate nevertheless, they have to pay taxes on it So this is the least is a desirable category by the shareholder IRS knows this IRS loves to classify every distribution as Dividend well, what's the most desirable one for shareholders? You guessed it recovery of capital if the distribution is considered recovery of capital It's tax-free not tax-free tax Free and other words you are not paying any taxes because they are giving you your money back and shareholders loves it IRS hates it and in between second most desirable for for shareholders is capital gain because capital gain we know it's if as long as it's long-term We assume it's long-term. It's taxed at the alternative rate, which is 0 15 or 20 percent Now we need to know what's gonna determine whether a Distribution is dividend recovery of capital or capital gain in order to learn this we have to learn about certain terms Starting with a term that we called current earnings and profit That's gonna lead us into something called EMP earnings and profit. So we're gonna look at something called Current earnings and profit which can lead us to something called earnings and profit. What is earnings and profit? Earnings and profit is the company's accumulated capital. What is that? So this is a new term earnings and profit What is earnings and profit? Think of it as retained earnings from financial accounting What is retained earnings from financial accounting? Think of it. It's not the same think of it and you're gonna see why in Financial accounting what we do is we generate revenues then we deduct the expenses and hopefully we have net income What's gonna happen to that to that net income net income goes into? Retained earnings and in other words, we're gonna keeping this income unless we paid in dividend And if we paid in dividend, we're gonna deduct the dividend then we're gonna have some retained earning left Then the following year what we do is we generate revenues Minus expenses we get net income again and that net income will be added to beginning retained earning and if we don't pay Dividend again the processor beats itself. So this is what retained earning the earnings that we are keeping retained earnings Now in taxation, we have this term called earnings and profit earnings and profit again Think of it as retained earning, but it's not the same. What is it then? It's the company's ability to pay dividend without impairing its capital. What does that mean? It means What is the company ability? What is the ability notice the ability? Do they have the ability do they have the capacity to pay dividend to pay you dividend without touching the money that you sent them? The money that you contributed to them. Well, where does the money come from if you did not contribute it to the company? Where is it coming from? Well, it's coming from their earnings Well, okay, then that's easy then what you're telling me earnings and profit is the same thing as taxable income. No No, why because you're gonna see many reconciliation But let me give you an example quick example to kind of scratch the surface here Think of money bond interest income when we prepare our 1120 when we prepare our 1120 We're gonna report all our revenues minus the deductions and we're gonna get to a profit of 100,000 including in this revenue was 300,000 of revenue but the company also had for the sake of illustration 10,000 of Munibod and Munibod interest income Well, hold on a second. They only reported 300,000 of revenue But they also received a check from a state government for interest rate interest income that they received Well, this 10,000 is not included in this 300,000 because it's not taxable. It doesn't go on form 1120 Well, nevertheless, we receive the money So that's why what we say earnings and profit is the economic ability to pay dividend Therefore what we have to do we have to go with okay if taxable income is 100,000 Now we're gonna do we're gonna add to it the $10,000 of municipal bond that we did not Account for now. This is I gave you the simple adjustment But there's gonna be many many adjustments some of them are pluses some of them are minuses to come up to Earnings and profit. So this is the point. It's not only taxable income. It's more than taxable income It's the capacity to pay dividend and there are two categories of to earnings and profit current earnings and profit C EP and AEP accumulated earnings and profit. So we have to understand what is CEP? What's current earnings and profit and what's AEP? Well, if you understand what CEP is You're gonna easily understand what AEP. So let's discuss CEP and Accumulated earnings and profit. Well, what is CEP? CEP is I told you we start with taxable income That's the starting point Then what we do we have to have some reconciling item and we're gonna spend few minutes discussing the reconciling item Sometimes we're gonna add the taxable income. Sometimes we are going to deduct from taxable income.  Usually if you if you made a profit you increase it usually Here's what's gonna happen to CEP CEP at the end of the year is closed to AEP So what does that mean? It means whatever? CEP we have at the end of the year. We have to close it down to zero and goes into AEP therefore the beginning of CEP every year is zero. Why is it zero? Because whatever is left at the end of the year. It's closed into AEP What's AEP? Accumulated. What's what's accumulated? It's undistributed earnings from prior years and this could go back as far as I believe early the 1900 I'm gonna see the specific here on the next slide. So undistributed earnings from prior year It means how much the company is keeping in profit from year to year Not only in profit and dividend-paying capacity because remember AEP is the accumulated of CEP So dividend capacity from prior years. This is where it's parked in AEP now. Let's Discuss now a little bit more in specific Current earnings and profit CEP. How do we compute CEP? And this is the heart of this session how to compute current earnings and profit Well, always we're gonna start in theory the balance at the beginning of the year is zero Why it's zero because we're gonna close this account at the end of the year So we're gonna start with taxable income whatever taxable income is coming from 1120 We're gonna look at the 1120 you're gonna be giving taxable income then we are gonna be making certain adjustments to taxable income We're gonna call these reconciling item. So we're gonna go from beginning CEP, which is basically zero Corporate taxable income plus or minus certain item end up with Current CEP now if we pay any dividend, let me just real quick if we pay any dividend from CEP We're gonna deduct that dividend and whatever's left from this number. Whatever's left. Whatever's left from this number goes to AEP Accumulated earnings and profit. There are two type of reconciling items that we have to be familiar with and we're gonna look at them in Examples some items are Execluded from taxable income that does affect current earnings and profit There are certain items that you don't see and the tax return. You don't see on the 1120 They're not on the 1120, but they affect your ability to pay dividend Those items could be pluses. Those items could be minuses. What could be some examples? I already told you tax exempt income like municipal bond You don't see it. You don't add it as revenue on The 1120 but it is indeed revenue you receive the money, but it's not taxable Life insurance proceeds if it's for the benefit of the one of the executives If the company received this it's a plus you have to add Federal income tax refund from prior years. This is called like a time in adjustment. So from the prior year You overpaid your taxes now. They're giving you the money back Well, if they give you the money remember you did not deduct the federal income taxes Now you don't have to include it in federal income because it's a refund. You receive the money you add it What do you deduct? Well access charitable contribution? Remember when you make a charitable contribution Let's assume you made a million dollar worth of a charitable contribution of that one million dollar You might be able to deduct eight hundred thousand only because that's ten percent of your taxable income You are limited. Well, but you wrote a check for a million. Well, it means you have to deduct an additional 200,000 although it's not on your 1120, but I did make that payment Now you're gonna see that this access charitable contribution when you deducted later this 200,000 It's gonna be a positive adjustment because you deducted it from a prior year now You're taking a deduction without paying. We'll look at an example Federal income taxes is the classic one. This is the classic example. What do I mean by classic example? Remember when you file your form 1120 you're gonna have to pay your income taxes. Let's assume your income taxes are 150,000 so you wrote a check for 150,000 to the federal government and you send it with your return But if you look at your 1120 at your form 1120 tax form, you never deducted this money You cannot deduct your federal income taxes on your federal income tax return. Da, this is your bill for that, right? But did you pay it? Sure? I paid it. Therefore, what do I have to do? I have to deduct it when I'm computing my current earnings and profit Interest that you paid on tax exempt interest. Well, remember tax exempt income is exempt It says exempt well interest on tax exempt interest also not deductible Well, it's not deductible, but you did pay it. Therefore you have to deduct it same concept applies to fines Penalties and lobbying cost all these payments that you made for fines Penalties and lobbying cost they are indeed real money. You wrote a check for them But you could not deduct them on your 1120 therefore what they all do they reduce your dividend paying capacity There are also other items included in taxable income that does not affect CEP I'll give you an example the dividend received deduction when you prepare your form 1120 and you did if you received dividend The government gives you a deduction a deduction called the dividend received deduction that deduction reduced your taxable income Why because it's a deduction but that deduction you did not pay a penny for it. It's given by the government therefore what you do is you The add that your dividend receive deduction because it reduced your taxable income without reducing your dividend paying Capacity now the best way to illustrate all these concepts is to work a series of examples I'm gonna start with with a simple example To show you how to compute current earnings and profit because current earnings and profit goes into determining your earnings and profit Which is very important in determining once you determine earnings and profit. It's gonna help you determine whether that distribution is Dividend recovery of capital or capital gains So I just want under I want you to understand why we are going through all this trouble to to understand one concept It's important. Let's start with the first example Phoenix paid $80,000 in federal income taxes and also earned $4,000 in tax exempt interest from the state of Florida bonds So that's what they did to compute current earnings and profit We're gonna start with their taxable income whatever their taxable income is and what we're gonna do from this amount Let's assume it's a million just kind of I should have gave you a taxable income It's a million then I would say well They paid 80,000 in federal income taxes, but that 80,000 was not deducted from the million I'm going to deduct the 80,000 now, which will make their Current earnings and profit 920,000 this is their dividend paying capacity. So they did pay it. It's real money, but it's not deductible Then we're gonna add to that $4,000 from the interest received from the state of California, Florida So their current earnings and profit for that year 924,000 and this is goes into their earnings and profits of they pay anything from this amount for that year any Distribution the distribution we're gonna see later. It's considered dividend again. Think of the form 1120 Those two numbers are not on the form Well, but we did make the payment and we did receive the money. This they're not on the form Let's take a look at another example Raven Enterprises transfer a property with a basis of 20 to its only shareholder for 15,000 so they have something for 20,000 they give it to the shareholder and the only shareholder. Is this a related party transaction? Yes Now, what does that mean? It means the company cannot take the loss as per section 267 Cannot take the 5000 loss when determined taxable income. Why because the transaction is between related parties Did the company lose 10,000? Yes, they lost 5,000 worth of asset. Okay Giving the overall economic impact of the transaction 5,000 is decreased in net asset. This loss minimizes current earnings and profit For the sale years basically you lost 5,000, but you cannot record this 5,000 So I lost 5,000. I could not deduct. I'm gonna reduce my current earnings and profit because it reduced my current Capacity to pay dividend my current earnings capacity to pay dividend Sometime what we have is called timing adjustment a charitable contribution is a classic example So let me give you this example and see how it works during 20 x3 for hat makes charitable contribution 18,000 which of which cannot be deducted when figuring out taxable income for the year Why because remember there is there's a 10% limitation of taxable income as a result The 18,000 carried forward to 20 x4. So I made the contribution I could not deduct it in 20 x3. It was fully deducted in 20 x4. Now, remember I have 20 x3 I have 20 x4 in 20 x3. I could not deduct this contribution So I'm gonna arrive to my taxable Income whatever my taxable income was and what I'm gonna do to compute my CEP I am going to deduct the 18,000 and that's gonna give me my CEP for 20 x3 What happened is in 20 x4? I was able to deduct this 18,000. I deducted this 18,000 to arrive to my taxable income It's 18,000 that was deductible. I arrived to my taxable income. Well in 2018 It was deducted, but I did not really wrote the check in 20 20 x04. So what do I do? I will add the 18,000 to my taxable income to come up with 20 x4 current earnings and profit. So this is called the timing adjustment Why? Because the excess contribution Did affect my 20 x3 Earnings and profit And also affected negatively the fact that negatively 20 x3, but it affected it positively in 20 x4 when it was permitted to be deducted without me writing the check in that year So no, remember I wrote the check in 20 x3. I took the deduction in 20 x4 It doesn't matter. We have to understand this timing adjustment That the same concept would apply to net operating loss and capital losses carry over you're gonna take them in different years Make sure which year you deduct them to add them back sometime what's gonna happen with CEP is you have to make certain Accounting method adjustment Because when you compute CEP you might have to use different rules think of CEP as using different Accounting rules and we have to look at few accounting different accounting rules That's not all of them at some point. I will have a list of all the adjustments, but let me show you a few accounting rules The installment method is not allowed for EMP calculation So if you sell something and you said I'm gonna be using the installment method That's not allowed. What's gonna happen for that year? You're gonna assume that you received all the amount So it's not allowed an adjustment is required for the third gain from annual property sales under the installment method Simply put the installment method means you made a sale today this year So you made the sale, but you are going to receive receiving the money the next three years year two Year three and year four you made the sale in year one Well, guess what? Although you're gonna be receiving the money in year two year three and year four. We're gonna for CEP All the principal payment considered in the year of sale. So we'll look at an example, but this is what I want you to know It's not allowed. You say I'm using the installment method. It does not matter also for Earnings and profit when you compute earnings and profit you cannot use maker. So if you have any depreciation You have to Recompute your depreciation using the alternative depreciation rate ADR will work an example Also section 179 deduction is spread over five years So if you took a section 179 deduction for tax purposes, they're gonna say no way You cannot take the full deduction for EMP. What you have to do is you have to only take Prorated over five years It means every year you have you can only take 20% of the deduction for the purpose of C EMP which we will look at examples Also, you cannot take first-year depreciation. So if you took a first-year depreciation, you have to make an adjustment for that It's not allowed for CEP. The best way to illustrate all of this is to look at examples Let's assume starting with the installment method and 20x3 Sparrow company a calendar year taxpayers sells a track of unimproved land for 180,000 the basis in the property is 40,000 For the terms of the sale Sparrow would receive 100,000 and x4 80,000 and x5 along with the interest of 5% and Sparrow does not up out of the installment method. They want to use the installment method now remember I don't care what they use for tax purposes. They want to use the installment method. That's fine But when I'm computing my CEP, I have to assume what I have to assume the whole sale took place in 20x3 Since Sparrow taxable income for 20x3 won't reflect any gain from the sale the corporation must make 140,000 positive adjustment Hold on a second. The sale was 180. Why is it 140? Well, that's the deferred gain Remember we sold it for 180 the basis was 40,000. So we have a gain of 140 what's gonna happen? We're gonna take this gain and say this is a positive adjustment to CEP hold on a second But it's not in my taxable income. I don't care as far as dividend-paying capacity. You made the sale Now what else do we have to do now? We have to compute the gross profit margin on this transaction So we made a profit of 140 on a sale of 180 the profit margin is 77 point seven eight Rounding rounding. This is rounding. It's seven seven seven. It's rounding. So here's what's gonna happen in 20x3 in the year of sale nothing was taxable remember because you're using the installment method under the Installment method you wait until the payment is made and you compute your taxes if you don't know the installment method You gotta you gotta know this but for EMP purposes I Have to add It's added therefore I have a positive adjustment for the year of the sale although I did not receive a penny yet But installment method those are the rules. It's called an accounting adjustment for 20x4 you received $100,000 the first $100,000 how much of that $100,000 is taxable? Well, remember you receive a cash of 100,000 the profit on this is seventy seven point seven eight It means on your taxes. You are going to report seventy seven thousand seven hundred and seventy eight Dollars in profit. That's taxable. That's a great.  It's gonna increase your taxable income in That year in 20x4 you have a negative adjustment because you already added all the profit from this Transaction in 20x3. Therefore you have a negative adjustment of EMP for 20x4 20x5 you received $80,000 you received $80,000 in 20x5. Well, if I received $80,000 for tax purposes I'm gonna multiply it by the gross profit percentage for this sale Which is seventy seven point seven eight rounding and that's gonna give me a profit of sixty two thousand two hundred and twenty-two dollars Boom that goes on my W2. I have to pay taxes on that on my EMP I have to deduct this sixty two thousand two twenty-two because this whole amount was Added to EMP in the year of sale. So notice If you add those two they should equal to one hundred and forty thousand just FYI Let's take a look at a depreciation adjustment because that's important. Remember. What do we have to use? We have to use ADR. Let's assume on January 2nd silver spent fifty thousand dollar to acquire an equipment With an ADR midpoint of ten years and makers class life of seven So for makers, it's gonna be seven years for ADR It's gonna be ten years. We're gonna spread over more years. It's more conservative. You're taking less deduction The equipment was depreciated under makers and the asset was sold on July 2nd x3 So x so we kept it x1 full x1 x2 All the way till mid x3 and we sold it for forty five thousand now Let's compute the depreciation for both. So now I'm assuming here, you know how to use makers Obviously you should okay. So now for twenty x1 will take fifty thousand times year one makers for seven year fourteen point two nine The depreciation for makers is seven thousand one hundred and fifty. So on your form eleven twenty you took a deduction of seven thousand one hundred and fifty great For the For ADR, it's fifty thousand divided by ten Then it's considered mid-year. So it's ADR mid-point life times one half you took a deduction for ADR not ADS ADR of 2500 here's what you did you took an access deduction You took you took too much deduction You took too much deduction for makers because you took seven thousand one hundred and fifty What we're saying is since you took too much deduction for makers We're gonna add back 4645 the difference in the depreciation method for year x2 take fifty thousand times Year two seven year maker rate 24 point four nine for makers you took 12245 for the ADR method it's fifty thousand divided by ten we have a full year we took Five thousand once again you took for makers you took too much deduction twelve thousand two hundred and forty five We're gonna have a positive adjustment of seven thousand two hundred and forty five for twenty x3 We took fifty thousand times seventeen point four nine and it's gonna be eight thousand seven hundred and forty five Then we are going to take five thousand divided by ten times one half Which gonna be two thousand five hundred because it's a mid-year. We sold it mid-year so all all in all the depreciation is For makers total of twenty eight thousand one thirty five the depreciation for ADR is Ten thousand the difference between them overall we had a positive adjustment of eighteen thousand one hundred and thirty five Now bear in mind for twenty x3. We multiply this by one half. I don't have the one half here But we multiply it by one half now When we sold it remember when we sold this asset we sold it for forty five thousand So what does that mean? It means we have to compute the proceeds amount realized minus the adjusted basis under each method well The amount realized whether it's for income tax or for EMP purposes It's 45,000. This is how much we received for this asset Then we are going to do what deduct the adjustment the another adjustment the adjusted basis Well, what is the adjusted basis for income tax? Well, the asset has a cost of one fifty thousand. We already took twenty eight thousand one thirty five Therefore the adjusted basis is twenty one thousand eight sixty five. So we made the profit of Twenty three thousand one thirty five Why because the basis is twenty one thousand the difference between the amount realized and the basis is the profit now for ADR We the the cost was fifty thousand we only took ten thousand of the appreciation the basis the adjusted basis Is forty thousand forty five minus forty thousand we have a profit of five thousand There's a difference in the profit between the income tax and AEP Well, if we compute the difference in the profit guess how much it's going to be it's going to be eighteen thousand one thirty five And that's going to be a negative adjustment. So notice as we were depreciating the asset We had a positive adjustment of eighteen thousand one thirty five, but that positive adjustment was recaptured when we sold the asset Why because for income tax purposes, we have a higher profit for income tax purposes We have a higher profit. Why do you have a higher profit? Because the basis is higher that we have a higher basis So therefore we have less profit for for EMP. We have a higher we have We have lower profit because the basis was not eroded. We only eroded five thousand of the basis well, we have a negative adjustment because It we recaptured the depreciation when we when we make the sale Let's take a look at section 179 remember section 179. What do we have to do when we have section 179? We have to spread the expense over five years for CEP on January 2nd a zoo for a five-year depreciate the appreciable asset into service the purpose the purchase price was 50,000 and the company claimed section 179 for the entire amount. Well, it's five years starting with x2 and year x2 They for tax purposes, they took the deduction. They happily took the deduction one hundred thousand How much can they take for EMP? Well, you have to be spread over five years, which is 20 percent We have to deduct from EMP only 10,000 it means so let me show you this On 11 20 we had revenues And we had expenses part of this expenses was this 50,000 now Then we got the taxable Income now we're gonna have to go from taxable income to CEP Well of this 50,000 we're only supposed to deduct 10. So what do we have to do? We have to add $40,000 to taxable income. So if we add $40,000 to taxable income add 40,000 so minus 50 Plus 40 the net deduction for EMP is only 10,000 This is how we came up with the 10,000 for year one, but the adjustment is for 40,000 Now x3 how much can we how much can we deduct for tax purposes for this asset? None because the full amount was deducted in x2 So on x3 what we do now we deduct the 10,000 because remember the 50,000 the 50,000 asset Will have to be spread over five years. So we did year one year two 10,000 year three 10,000 and the adjustment is 10,000 Okay, so keep that in mind that for year one you'll take the difference and we'll work another example But I hope you can see this that in year one. We only have to take an the EMP adjustment is for 40 To make it net the difference is 10 to only have a 10 Why did we why did we have a positive adjustment? Because we took too much deduction We have to add back. We have to add back the 40,000 So for EMP the deduction should be only 10,000 the effect on the adjustment Then in the following year every year you will deduct 10, 10, 10. So notice the adjustments plus 40 notice here plus 40 Let me just show you here plus 40 Minus 440 basically the adjustment is zero and what you did is you for tax purposes You took it all in one year for EMP you took the deduction over five years and the adjustment Basically cancel each other out Now the only reason you're gonna learn how to compute CEP is to work additional examples And this is what I would do. I would look at additional simulation and exercises That's gonna help you understand this topic. I also have plenty of mcqs through false on far hat lectures This is where you should go now and work mcqs. Good luck study hard. This is an important topic and stay safe


Hey, and good afternoon. I'm so glad you guys are here today. I'm here with Brenda Scott. She's a professional home organizer and the owner of Tidy My Space, specializing in organizing homes for those that are aging in place. And I'm super excited that you guys are here with me today. I am really excited that we get to have this conversation because we are talking about organizing and cleaning homes for our parents, for those that are our clients, for those that are our neighbors, people that we are close to, it could be relatives, it could be us. All right, what are your questions? I want you guys to jump in today. I want you to ask me your questions and I want you to ask Brenda your questions so we can get those answered. Now, we're streaming live to the Ask a House Cleaner show, which is a lot of professional house cleaners. And a lot of them have clients. And so I'm really excited because we get to go inside people's homes and we get to make some of the suggestions that we're learning today. And with Brenda's help, we're gonna be able to find some simple solutions that will make aging in place a whole lot easier. Now, for those of you that are new to the concept of aging in place, this would be like my parents. My parents are still living at home and they're doing the best they can to be independent as long as possible. They're not living in an institution or a nursing center or something like that, like my husband's father was before he passed away. So if you are living at home, what we wanna do is this. We wanna make your space as comfortable as possible. Then we wanna make sure that it's clean and that it's tidy and that you don't trip on stuff and that you can find the things that you're looking for. And so that's why we have Brenda here with us today. And she's an expert on safe living and she's the owner of a company called Tidy MySpace. So please help me welcome Brenda Scott. Brenda, how are you today? Great, thank you for having me.  So how did you get to this moment in your life? Well, I think it's always been something ingrained in me. My mother was always a very, very organized, tidy person. And I remember her always telling me, tidy your room and put this away. And she was a really incredible example of how to run a busy household and know where everything was. She was the person where if you couldn't find something you would ask her, she knew exactly where it was. So it was ingrained in me and I just started helping all my family and friends. And then I used that as a, I don't know if you would say it was kind of like my way of always staying connected with my children as they grew up. It was like, oh, we do always need help. So I was always there. And so then when I decided to retire people were telling me, this comes so naturally to me. And I said, well, doesn't that come naturally to everybody else on how to be tidy and organized? And they said, no, it does not. So I was like, okay, maybe this is something I can do. So when I started looking at some of my older family I thought they're complaining a lot about things not working as well as they used to in their house. Things are getting harder. Things, I can't do that anymore or I don't feel safe doing that. So I thought, well, how can I marry the two? How can I help them tidy and be organized and also be safe? So I looked at the, I believe in the States it's called CAPS, which is Certified Aging in Place Specialist. And here in Canada, we didn't have that yet. So they were still kind of rolling it out and trying to Canadianize it, I guess you'd say. And so once that was in place, I took that training and now I offer this home assessment aspect of home organizing. So it's just evolved into what do I see people needing and where's the gap? Where's the thing that people are struggling with? And it seemed to be, I don't wanna move I wanna stay where I am, help me do this. So that's kind of my evolution of tidying my space. Well, I'm really excited that we get to have this conversation today because as a professional house cleaner of 30 years I've been inside lots of people's homes and I get to watch them as we continue to be there there are our customer year after year after year as they are aging, suddenly some of the things that we used to do in their home don't kind of don't work anymore.  And so then we have to be really sensitive like, oh, something's changed now we need to make sure that when we leave the shower head is like dangling down now near the floor where they can just grab the hose and like reach it wherever they are knowing that they're not gonna be able to reach it way up there but way up there they can't access it anymore. So there are little things like that that even as a professional house cleaner we had to like be really sensitive to the fact that things are changing but at the same time we want them to be as independent as possible. And so we don't wanna highlight the fact that things are changing but like you said we wanna create a safe space. Tell us if you will some of the things that you are working with people to help them do something just like that shower head on a hose what are some of the things that are common that you experience when you help somebody create a safe space? It usually comes down to listening to what their challenges I don't wanna say complaints it's their challenges. So if they're saying like you said I can't reach the shower head anymore well then either install one that's adjustable so that they could do it when they're able to stand or if they have to sit or dangle it down where they can reach the bottles like if it's in the bathroom definitely maybe they can't reach that little caddy where all their shampoos are so you have to figure out a different way that they can get at it. So maybe that might be putting a lower shelf in the shower or some kind of suction cup thingy on the wall so that they can put them in a little basket. It's just listening to what their challenges are and seeing what will work. A lot of times it's I can't lift this anymore. Well, is there a lighter version that they could get like the pots and pans if they're really heavy maybe there's a lighter version or if they can't reach the clothes in their closet well, can we bring them down lower? Like you were saying if they have shoulder issues can they reach everything so that they can be independent? That's the main goal is you wanna be able to live in your house without calling up so and so can you get my shirt? Can you get this thing out of it? You know, just so that they can do it without having to ask for help. And one of the things that I'm and I'm glad you brought that up about lowering the clothing inside the closet and I've not thought of that which is a great suggestion. I know that my husband's mother, for example, will say, you know, when we moved into the house we put all these things up in the cupboards and now that I'm older I'm not able to get up on the step ladder anymore. And so I can't reach them. And so things that are as simple as removing some of the things that are higher from the shelves that they would use and putting them in shelves that are reachable and then getting rid of some of those things that maybe you're not being used as often just to clear up some of that space. So what are some things that you're running into? Definitely moving the stuff into their area of reach. I've noticed a lot of people like using tall upper shelves and that's almost impossible to reach so if they can put things in like base cabinet drawers I think are super handy for everybody. Definitely reducing the clutter so that it's easier for them to get around. It's easier for you as cleaners to clean if they don't have tables full of knickknacks and piles of books.  They're not doing all the, well, they might be. They might be still doing the canning and the reserves and all of the stuff that goes with that. If they're not doing it anymore, then why is it there? So if we can make it so that what they need is right there that's our job. So when somebody takes your assessment does it ask questions about things like are you canning anymore?  What kind of things would come up that would then trigger? Oh yeah, we do need to remove this from the house or we need to swap something out for a lighter weight version of that. Yeah, with the assessment, the way that we go is right from like the driveway all the way through the house because getting into the house is important and it needs to be safe too. So we look at, okay, show me how you get into your house, show me how you move around your house. What is your normal routine? And then you can start to see what they struggle with. Like if they're really struggling with opening the door knob, like simple as that, well, can we change it to a lever? That makes it so much easier. And if there's nothing to put, like if they're walking in the house and they have to walk 10 feet to put their coat down or they have no place to sit so they have to kind of struggle against the wall to take their boots off. I mean, that's a red flag to me that they need a drop zone. They need a chair there that's safe enough for them to sit down and remove their shoes. And you go through the whole house that way looking at how do you use this? Are you struggling with this? Can you get your clothes from there? Can you get your cup and tea cup and can you get your plate and show me where your stuff is? And are you using this? And a lot of times because something's been there and that's always where it's always been, they don't think of it any other way as, well, I didn't know I could move it, you know? It's like, yeah, you can move it. Like it's just, sometimes it's just an eye opener that they're going, that would make so much sense if it wasn't there, if it was here. So that's what the home assessment looks at. And a lot of times it's simple, easy, just move something or it can go all the way up to hiring a renovator to put grab bars or changing some lighting or changing if the floor is too slippery. I have one client that her wood floors are high-gloss and she's constantly walking like she's on eggshells because it is so slippery. And it's just a matter of, well, we can get some anti-slip mats and put them in the path. She goes, oh my goodness, that's so much better because she was so scared she was gonna fall and break a hip and then there was nobody there to look after her and what does she do? So it's just a matter of looking at it with how can we make this better? And you know, I'm really glad you brought that up because for a lot of seniors, when they reach a certain point where they feel unsafe because they might slip and it could be their eyesight is not what it used to be or their depth perception is not what it needs to be. It could be a balance issue. I mean, it could be a variety of different things or it could be a strength issue. And I know a lot of seniors that have gotten to a point where because they feel unsafe, if they do trip on a little something or if the floor is slippery, for example, and they do fall, a lot of times it won't just break their hip. It'll break their clavicle and their shoulder and their elbow all the way down when they land. And I've seen that where they bust up their whole entire body and then they're in the hospital for six months while they're trying to recover. And somebody that busts up that quickly does not have the strength to recover as quickly as we did when we were a kid and we broke our arm and a couple of weeks later we're back out there hanging in trees, right? It's not the same recovery process. And so I think to be really conscientious of how is my parent aging or now that I'm setting up my home for an aging situation, how can I set it up so that it is safer? So I really love that assessment that you're providing your clients so that they can start looking at things from a different perspective. And if you are a house cleaner and you're watching this show or you're watching the replay, I want you to pay attention to the customers that you have because as you go inside their homes and especially if we have customers for 10, 12, 15 years we're getting older, but so are our clients. And so things that used to be always the same way it's not the same way anymore, things have changed.  It might be something as simple as putting in a bath mat that has anti-slip properties to it where when we were young everybody's jumps in the bath and the shower or whatever and no worries, but the older you get and the more slippery things become again, because of balance or depth perception having a floor mat inside the shower makes a whole lot of difference.   What are some of the questions that customers ask you when they're in the process of creating a safe place either for themselves or for their parents? They usually ask me, how much is it gonna cost? And is it going to be cheaper than putting them into a retirement home? That's one of the things they always ask because a lot of times it's the older children or you know, older adult children are trying to figure out how can mom and dad be safe without always calling me because they're not always around. So they're always asking, is this going to be something that will last a while or am I eventually going to have to move them anyway? So they're looking at the money factor of, can I do this reasonably and let them stay there for maybe five, 10 more years and then eventually or is this a one year and they're going to have to move? But I think that's where the question has to also lie with if they've got a physiotherapist that they're working with or any other specialist that the seniors are working with to actually ask them if this is a progressive thing that's going to be fast or if it's just something that they need a little bit of help right now with and it can be as simple as like I said before just moving a few things and making sure that their mats are taped down on the edges and the corners and putting things where they need them. It's sometimes it's really simple fix but most people are just asking how long it's going to last before it has to be changed again. And sometimes you can actually talk to a renovator that can like if somebody doesn't need grab bars yet they might be able to do a renovation where it's framed in so that when they put the grab bar the backing and the support is there but maybe they don't want the grab bar there yet or they don't need it but the backing is there and the support's there so when they do need it, it just goes up. So sometimes it's just preparing for their future needs and that's something that you know you can discuss with okay you don't need that yet but you're gonna need that in five years or 10 years. So you just plan for their future and that's some of the questions that they're asking. And I think planning for the future is a really important key. I know that I'm youthful right now and right now I can climb in and out of bathtubs just fine but as I'm moving to a new house and we're selling our home right now moving into a new house in the new house I'm having all walk-in showers installed and I hope if I live there for many years that when the day comes and I'm not able to hop in and out over the ledge of a bathtub which comes up to my knee that it will be easy just to walk in and out where that's gonna be easier the older I get and what really drew my attention to that is I had knee surgery this year and to try to get my knee up and over into the tub I was like whoa that's you know and then I start thinking in terms of okay in a minute I'll be healed and I'll be fine but what if I wasn't? What if I was older and I couldn't climb in? We got an issue there. So how can I prepare for the future? And so I love these conversations because this is helping us pay closer attention. How could things be differently? And right now I'm able to climb up on our ladder and I'm able to get stuff in the way top covered but the day will come when it's not safe. And I know for my dad right now we have told my dad you do not get on a ladder you call somebody will help you but do not get on a ladder because it gets on a ladder and then he falls you know. Or get up on a chair or get up on a chair. I've seen that. Well it's only gonna take a second and then they pull the chair I'm gonna be like oh don't do that. Worse than that and I hate to say this because I've seen this from my clients in the cleaning business where you go to a customer's home and the client will have like one of those chairs with the wheels on it. And they're like well it's just a chair. No no no it's a chair with wheels on it don't you dare stand on that. And then they start slipping and sliding around and one guy toppled over. Well that's lousy. And another one climbed upon a folding chair. Well the folding chair by its nature folds. So you step on it and you put your weight on it it folds backward and he got sandwiched in there and then he fell over. And yeah we need to keep seniors off chairs and step ladders this just is not good. No no it's not good. And it's not just seniors too. You know we all get kind of clumsy or we're trying to do something fast. And I know if somebody's trying to climb up on a step ladder and it doesn't have the rail bars. So they're like holding onto the cupboards and trying to lift something down and it just doesn't work. You end up dropping something or stepping off or thinking that there's one more step or two more. It's just it's not good. Yeah. So what are some of the critical things that we need to pay attention to inside a home where we have parents or relatives or clients that are trying to age in place and we need to help keep them safe. Definitely security starting at the front door. Definitely do they have a way of knowing who's at the door without having to go to the door? Like technology is really awesome right now especially with if they're a little tech savvy they might have it on their cell phone or they might have that doorbell camera thing. They can see who's there. There's a lot of problems with door to door scammers and seniors seem to be their target. So if they can answer the door without going to the door and knowing who's there and just telling them to go away or leave it at the door and I'll get it later because that's sometimes how they do is once you open the door they come in. So if you can start at the front door by giving them some kind of security as to knowing how to answer the door safely that's the first step. And then definitely looking at their floors making sure that there's nothing that's going to trip them. Do they have what they need? Is it starting to pile up? Do they need some help with taking the garbage out and that kind of stuff? Do they need a bin there or are they just throwing it in the corner and it's going to trip them? Do they need some help with doing the dishes? Is it starting to pile up or even look at the condition of their dishes? I know some of our senior clients use stuff that is damaged because it's not damaged enough to throw away but you always get that, it's okay, it's fine. I'll use the good stuff for company and I'll use the stuff that's damaged like there might be a crack in a teacup or they're using plastic containers that are been used in the microwave. So now they're all stained and we all know that the plastic containers, if you're putting them in the microwave, the older ones, especially if it's like spaghetti sauce or something like that, it'll start to stain and that's gonna get in your food. So I always encourage family members and even cleaners or organizers to look at what the clients are using and encourage them to not use some standard stuff. Like if you've got some nice plates and cups, why are you using the icky stuff? Like get rid of the icky stuff and use the safe because I'm sure if you're using like a teacup that's got a crack in it, it's gonna bust and it's gonna bust in your hands or when you've got something hot in it. So look at replacing all the stuff that's showing its age and get them the nice stuff. And I'm really glad that you brought that up to remind you guys and to highlight what Brenda just said because a lot of times we do slip over this and I've seen this so many times expired Tupperware and not just Tupperware but plastic containers where sometimes they've gone from the freezer to the microwave freezer to the microwave or they've fallen out of the freezer and they hit the floor and they break and they crack and then they're being used again and again and again and stuff is leaking out but you don't really know why and it's not apparent that that's why it's leaking out. And so if you have older containers, please inspect them for chips and cracks and holes and breakage so that you don't have stuff that's leaking because the leaking stuff is what you slip on and you don't understand that you slipped on it because it leaked out of the broken container that you have. Also the chips and cracks what Brenda is talking about on your dishes on the rim of the dishes, it's super easy to crack plates or to chip plates and bowls and stuff and then you'll hold them and they cut you and you don't really think that's gonna happen but it does and many times and I wanna just pay attention to this because it's easy when we're young, we get cut and we heal immediately. When you are a senior, it's not so immediate and sometimes the skin is much thinner than it is when you're young. And so you cut yourself and then you don't heal very well.  And they're like, oh, I just touched something and I started bleeding. Okay, so we have to be super careful about breakage on any item. If we have a chip items that can be picture frames, it could be anything that you pick up. If there's anything that you use on a regular basis, if it's cracked, chip, broken, it needs to be discarded, not fixed because if you just fix it, it's easy to break again. And there's a lot of stuff out there that can be replaced very inexpensively and a lot of it for free if you use an app like nextdoor.com. Someone can give you a replacement that's not broken. And so I do encourage you to please, please be very careful about those kinds of things. And I also, I feel for the people that are doing their day to day with substandard, you know, the old faded plates and cups and then they're keeping the really pretty stuff. They've been invested a whole bunch of money for the special con... It's like, no, get rid of, like make every day special.  And you've got some beautiful stuff there. Like just use the pretty stuff. I mean, you're worth it. And not only that, but there's a lot of pretty stuff that's available now that's even ladder weight. So instead of having like the great big corning wear plates that are really heavy, I know that even as my mother had gone through and she's one of the people that fell and busted up her whole body, in the process of that, she's got one hand on a stabilizer, which is like a little Walker stabilizer. And the other hand trying to carry this big, heavy corning wear plate. And so they do make a lighter weight version, whether it's a plastic or like a, it's kind of like a Melmac or whatever the stuff is, where it's a very lightweight dish that you can put your food on and still, it supports you and it lets you be independent that much longer. And so little tiny things like that, that would be super helpful just to pay attention to for your parents or I don't know, your clients or maybe it's you. I wanna stop for just a second and say hi to everybody. Hi guys, I'm so glad that you guys are here. We've got Terry, Terry says, especially if they have stairs. And then Terry says, shower chairs help a lot too. Yes, that's absolutely true. Thank you for that. Eileen Novak says, hello ladies, appreciate this topic. Quitter Angel says, hello me and my friends, watch you. Hello, I'm so glad that you're here today. Thanks for joining us. Collector at heart says, I'm on a blood thinner for the past two years and I have to be very careful with cuts. Yes, please, please, please be careful. That's what we're talking about today because this is a very serious issue.  Peggy Reardon says, be gentle when suggesting they get rid of things. Some old people filled parts of their lives are being thrown away along with the item. Yes, that is true. And so we have to be very conscientious not to just throw stuff away, but to say what can we swap out and then create new memories with some stuff that's safe.  And I tell you what, it's an ongoing thing. Terry says, you let them know that it could easily injure them and let them make the decision to get rid of it. Yes, that's a very great suggestion, Terry. Thank you for that. Oh, and Tammy said, how lovely to speak towards our seniors. We love them and want them to stay safe. Yes, that is true. We do. We do love our seniors and we want them to stay safe. Tell us some of the things that you're seeing as far as like trip hazards inside people's homes. Definitely scatter rugs. I know simply because we like the feeling of cushion under our feet, it's a lot softer than probably tile. So if they're really keen that they need to have these rugs, then make sure they're not really high pile because that just makes it more that they have to step up over. And definitely if they'd have a scatter rug to have all the edges taped down. Like you can get the two-sided carpet tape on hardwood with scatter rugs or tile or scatter rugs. Please don't have scatter rugs on top of carpet. That I know it's nice and cushy, but it's just too much of a chance of tripping on it. A lot of times with the seniors that I've worked with, bringing their foot up seems to be, they like to shuffle, put it that way. So when they're shuffling, if there's things in the way that they have to lift their foot up over, that's where they trip because they don't know how far up to bring their foot or they forget. So if you can have less things on the floor or if they have to be on the floor, make sure that they're out of their main path. I know some people like to do home decor on the floor, like pretty vases or baskets or whatever, but make sure they're up against the wall and they're not in their main path. Definitely if they're doing a lot of reading, like the newspaper or magazines or books or whatever. If they've got some place that they can put it that they don't have to be gingerly walking around it, like if they can put it on a chair or back in a bookcase or in a basket that's not going to get toppled over. That's what I see a lot of. And here in Canada, we have winter right now. So we have a lot of winter boots and that kind of stuff. So if the home entrance doesn't have some kind of shoe storage, it ends up just being tossed on the floor and that's where you end up people not watching what they're doing and tripping over the shoes or the boots. So having a spot for everything that's on the floor and making the floor space as wide and open as possible because a lot of times people might have a mobility device or maybe even just a cane and they need to be able to move freely and with enough space. I know with my training, they're saying they need to have a certain measurement for a hallway, but that is probably different for every home because not every home is able to have a 36 to a 48 width hallway. But just to make spaces as clear as possible, try and get everything off the floor. It makes cleaning easier and it just makes moving around easier. One of the things that my parents did and my parents are in the late 70s, one of the things that they did a couple of years ago which has served them very well is they put casters on all of their furniture and so they are able to actually move the furniture out as need be. So if they need to clean or dust underneath something or behind something, they can just give it a little push and they can grab the broom and a duster or something and they're able to clean behind it. And at first I thought that's kind of odd but then I was like actually that's a really great idea because it's allowed them then to be independent much longer still living at home where they're able to move things around a little bit instead of trying to move a really heavy piece of furniture where that then becomes a back issue or they can pull a muscle or something like that easily. So that's another idea. And Tammy says eliminate items furniture in the middle of rooms that's easy to trip over. And I think that's also a key to remove things that are in the middle of the rooms. I know that it was real popular for a period of time to have like sofas in the middle of your living room with a little rug that's creates a tinier space. And as we get older, sometimes moving all that stuff out of the way so that you have more space to move around is especially easy if you have like a wheelchair, for example or if you do have a walker that has the wheels on it that makes it easier to move around in the space that you have. I would make sure that it, like I like the idea of the casters on the furniture I think that's brilliant. Especially with like if somebody has a large potted plant that they have to move every once in a while having it on one of those little caster thingies is awesome so that they're not straining to lift it. But I would make sure that the wheels have some kind of locking device. Yes. Yeah.  So yeah, you wanna make sure it's secure. Yes, and by the same token, I think all of the devices in the home that have wheels should have some kind of a stopper or a lock on them for that very reason. And so I do think that there is a hurdle from going from not having any kind of a mobility device to having one. We run into a lot of seniors that as they're aging in place they're like, oh, I'm so independent. I don't need a cane and I don't need a walker and whatever. It's okay if you do. It's okay if you do.  Okay, well, you're gonna be walking all the way through the airport and none of those people know you and it gives you balance and so please use it and you can just check it on the airplane. They'll check it and they'll give it to you right when you get off the plane, okay?  And so I just really wanna highlight this because nobody wants to be walking around with extra stuff but I'll tell you this, when I had my knee surgery I had to have crutches and I didn't wanna have crutches. Oh, I'm very strong. I don't need to have crutches but guess what? It really eliminated the pain from trying to walk on my legs when one of my knees wasn't working properly. And so if I didn't use the crutch, what happens is this, I use my other leg in a different sort of way to compensate and then now I got my other knee is bugged up because I'm trying to compensate for the bad knee that I just had replaced, right? And so it's okay to use mobility devices to help you recover or to help you keep your balance or to help you become independent so much longer. And like the question that they were asking Brenda earlier, how long is this gonna give my parents an extension to stay in their home? We don't know the answer to that. We don't know because everybody's different. What we do know is this, if it buys them an extra year and they're able to stay in their home an extra year living in their own space and their own comfort rather than living in a place with strangers where they're on a time clock and somebody comes in and checks on them only at a certain time of the day. I mean, I'm not knocking those places but their home is gonna be a much more enjoyable lifestyle for them if we can give them an extra year, two years, five years, 10 years. But we don't know, we don't know how long that is. And so if we can set up the property right now and we can keep it clean and we can clear the passageways and I'm talking about empty Amazon boxes even. We've got Amazon boxes that come in the mail and what happens? We open them up and we stack them to the side. Don't do that. Let's flatten those boxes and let's recycle them because truth is, and we all know this, let's admit this right now. We're not gonna save those boxes so we can be shipping stuff to other people. We're not shipping stuff to other people anymore. We're ordering it right off of online. We're having it drop shipped from that place. We're not packing up anything and we're not sending it out in our own boxes. So we don't need to keep the boxes and all the packing that goes with it, right? Yeah, and when you're talking about mobility, the advice is then not being afraid to actually have people see that you're using them. It's also important to get them so that they fit because I know my dad just had a knee replacement so I stayed with him and that really showed me what he goes through daily and what his routine is. I'm going, well, we can make this easier and he goes, well, why? I said, no, no, his walker was too low so he was hunched over and I said, dad, it's adjustable. He goes, oh, let's crank it up so you're not bent over and hurting your back. He goes, oh, that's easier. I said, yeah. Or even just getting a little basket for the front of the walker. Because I said, okay, dad, show me how you're bringing your food to the dinner table and he's got one hand and he's trying to balance.  So what if we got you a little basket or a little shelf for your walker and you can put your food or your remote or your book or your newspaper in that instead of trying to carry it with one hand and do the walker with, he goes, oh, that would be easier. And I said, yeah, and it's also safer and it's just looking at it so that it fits the person. It's not a one size fits all. So it really do have to look at the routine and see how to make it easier for them. And while we're on this topic and I'm really glad that Brenda brought this up but a lot of the different mobility devices are created to be adjustable. Like the chairs that go inside the showers, they have adjustable length on the legs. And some of the bars that you have that are brace bars, some of them are longer and they can be adjustable. Some of them just have sections so that you can move them up or down depending on the height of the person. And so like in one person's shower, we put a adjustable bar and we put it about the length where they can hold on to it. And then we took the shower head on a hose and we positioned it so that it was behind that so it wouldn't fall, but that's as high as it would go. And then they could just pull it off the little suction bar and then use it for the showering and put it right back there instead of trying to do it all the way up there. Those are some common things that we've seen. And so just to have extra safety devices inside the house, I think is a really, really key issue especially if you live in Canada or you live in some of the areas where they have really cold outdoor weather, getting in and out of the car, coming up to the steps, all those areas can be slippery, to have extra handrails, extra handbars to have ramps if need be. It just makes it so much easier so that people feel safe and secure when they're either trying to push their walker or they're not able to climb up and down stairs even if it's just two or three stairs at your front door. Right? Yeah, there's just, you can get really, you can get a little ramp for a one-step. You can get, it all comes down to what your budget is and how long you're hoping to stay there. You can do a lot of DIYs. There's a lot on YouTube or you can hire a contractor to deal with it. But yeah, definitely the making every place that you go safe to make sure that there's no cracks and the sidewalks are all uneven. For instance, I went on a holiday and we went someplace and the sidewalks were extremely treacherous because they weren't flat. They were all cobblestone and flagstone and up and down. And I thought, anybody with a mobility challenge would be tripping on their face left and right because you can't see where the next bump is or the next hole is. It was just, it was very hard to relax because you couldn't look around. You have to watch your feet. And I feel the same way for people that are in their home they can't relax because if they're trying to move from the sofa to the kitchen, they have to watch what they're bumping into or, you know, I got a, oh, that's in the way I got to walk around it. So trying to make it as comfortable and easy is a really important thing for not just cleaners but organizers and anybody with any senior family. Well, we're talking about senior family. Let's talk about senior pets. Cause a lot of, a lot of seniors have pets and as the seniors get older, so do their pets. But a lot of times we run into this issue and this is something we can't deny and something we can't pretend doesn't exist. And that's where our little pets have accidents because their bowels are not as strong as they once were. And now we have a senior person trying to take care of the pet and they can't bend over because of the back or what have you. And so we have accidents that have happened inside the homes that sometimes go too long between cleanings. So what can you tell us about helping our little senior pets when they live with senior family that we have some issues there? I've seen a lot of people investing in those pee pads. I don't know if that would work for every situation, but if their senior pet has a problem with getting outside or the senior can't get them outside, if there is an area that they can have pee pads, the ones that are just disposable, or maybe even, I've heard of some people doing this where they have the artificial pee patch, like they do at the airports. That might be something to train their senior dog to use because a lot of times it's just they can't get out or maybe they can't tell the pet owner that they need to go out. But if they know that I can go here, that might be one way to solve it. And if they have a cleaning company that's kind of on call or I'm not sure, if I haven't heard of people using diapers on their dogs or pets yet, but I have seen some articles about it. I don't know if that might be an option. One of the things that we've done in the cleaning industry is we've helped our senior clients get outfitted with their little spray mops and they're very lightweight. They're easy to use if you have like a shoulder replacement and it's not like a heavy mop where you get out of a mop bucket or anything. So a little spray mop and inside the spray mop you can put a cleaning chemical. One of the cleaning chemicals that we recommend and I didn't make a note, but I will leave a link in the note below to the particular brand that I'm recommending, but it's Otoban, stain and odor remover. And so you can put that, it's a clear liquid. You can put that inside the spray unit and it removes the smell, but it's, what do you call it, a biodegradable enzyme eater.  And so as soon as there's an accident on the floor you can spritz the floor and then mop it up with the mop. And so it's a very easy way to kind of maintain the house in between either your regular house cleaner or your family that's coming to help you clean up. But that way it doesn't go for days.  But that's just another way to be independent for a little bit longer. And they're very inexpensive, very easy to use. So that's one of the things that we do recommend for cleaning. In the bathroom, we have some issues sometimes. Can you share with us some solutions you've found for the bathrooms to not just keep it safe but also help us keep sanitary inside the bathrooms? My first one always when it comes to bathrooms is to get rid of the extra clutter. I know everybody seems to have too many bottles of too many things that we don't use because we buy something, we try it, we don't like it. It goes back in the cupboard because we spent good money on it, we don't wanna waste it, we'll go buy something else. And sooner than later, it's just a mishmash of all these part bottles. So I always tell people, we need to go through all of your collection of stuff. Find the stuff that you actually like to use currently. Not, I've even seen people that no longer color their hair but they still have shampoo for coloring hair because it's not used. So you can either donate or toss, depending on your situation, all the stuff that you don't use. I know there's a lot of homeless shelters in our area that will take part bottles and they love it because it just makes them feel so much better if they can get clean. So if you can get rid of all the extra clutter that you don't want and that makes it easier for you to find what you do want as opposed to where is that shampoo in the purple bottle? No, not that purple bottle, the different purple bottle and it's just the chances of you picking the wrong one and doing a body wash on your hair or hopefully not the hair remover as a shampoo. Hopefully you don't do that one. But just making it simple to choose and simple to find is definitely the first thing. Try not to have too much decor in your bathroom. I know it's pretty and Instagram looks nice when they have it but in real life, it's so much easier to clean and get mold control if there's not a lot of nipples if there's not a lot of knickknacks sitting in the corners or on the counters. Try and make it as easy and quick to clean and quick to spot if there's a problem. If you've got a lot of artificial plants, which are fine but if you've got like a rainforest in your bathroom of artificial or real plants are you gonna spot the water damage? Probably not because it might be hiding behind something else.  So if you have less stuff to go through, to sort through, once again, the mats in the bathroom I know it's nice to step onto a mat out of a wet shower but make sure it's secure to the floor or I don't know if you can really afford it then get a heated floor and you don't have to worry about a cold floor on your feet but just make sure whatever you're stepping on is secure and you're not going to be sliding out. Like I've seen some people just throw a little bath towel down and they go sliding and it ends up, they crash into the vanity and it's not a good thing. So if you can streamline everything in the bathroom, if you can look and see where you're stealing the most insecure, like if it's getting in and out of the tub or the shower, maybe that's where you need the handrails. If you're finding getting up and down off the toilet, you find you're going to fall, then maybe you need to have a taller toilet or have an insert on the toilet and some rails beside it. I know one of my friends has an older house and their bathroom is original to probably the 60s and every time I use their bathroom, I feel like I'm falling because the toilet is so low and it's scary because you think you're there and you're not and you fall down another two or three inches. So I can imagine what it's like for a senior if their needs are getting sore and worn out to be trying to get up and down. So investing in a taller toilet is a little pricey, but it saves you from hurting yourself or just getting the riser on the toilet is an easy fix if you don't wanna go to the expense. Yeah, and let's talk about the riser on the toilet for a second because I know that many of my friends are seniors and right now I have a riser in my house. And so I just keep it inside the shower and there's a shower curtain that blocks it from view, but when they come over, it just lifts out and it puts right on top of the toilet, fits right over your toilet seat and it has two arm rails. So it raises the toilet seat about this high and it just has two little support handles so that you can lift yourself off and you can lift yourself on and you could guide yourself to where I know this is kind of personal, but let's have this conversation. You can kind of guide yourself to sit down so that you don't fall in or that you don't fall over. And so as we age, it's really important that we are paying attention to who is my guest that's coming over because it's really easy for me to say, oh, look, this is a guest that is having a hard time getting up the stairs. What do I know about that guest? They have balance issues. So I'm not trying to embarrass them.  So with just a small adjustment, oh, company's coming, let me hurry and pull that toilet seat out. And it doesn't cost me anything to do it once you've invested in those and they're like 25 to 40 bucks or something, they're not expensive. But if you have elder parents or you have elder friends or you are aging in place, it's a great thing to have at your house. And now we're pretty mobile in my house, but I have a whole bunch of mobility assisted devices in my house right now. And so if somebody were to come to my house and I were to have company over and I know for a fact, some of them just have knee replacements. Some of them have balance issues. Some of them are like my husband's mother. She doesn't move around as well as we do, but we're a different generation, right? And so I'm gonna have near the sofa a couple of bars, like they're just like little bars. You just open them up. It's like three sides and you can pull yourself up, right?  I don't expect she's gonna be able to get up from that by herself.  And so if you put something right beside the sofa, that's gonna let them push themselves up and go, oh, hey, look, it's right here. I'll just use it, right?  When I go to see my mother, I always take, and this is my mother coming from the airport to come visit me because I know she's not traveling with her walker because she's too proud, but I take the walker with me and I put her suitcase on it so that it's like, hey, I was using this as a little wheelie cart so that I could wheel your luggage around, right? And I've got my purse on it when I get there and I'm like, oh, hey, I got this. It's just right here. Why don't you just use it? Oh, thank you so much, you know? But she's not going to ask for it. She's certainly not going to travel with it because she's too proud. So there's a certain specific age group where we have to pay attention to that kind of stuff. Yeah, definitely. And it could be just a simple look, similar to your situation in the living room where the couch is really cushy and you can sit back and lamp. My in-laws are similar where it's too deep for them. So if I know that they're coming over, I'll position some pillows at the back so that it brings them a little bit straighter up and they aren't struggling to get out or make sure that they get the side of the couch with the arm so that they can have something to push up on.  I know we had a friend that was in a wheelchair. So when we know that he was coming over, we've made sure that anywhere he had to go was accessible for him. It might not be that way all the time, but you just have to make it easier for them to enjoy the revisit. Well, and I so appreciate this conversation today. I know that there are a whole bunch of things I would love to talk about still. And there are things like having pump dispensers in the bathroom for the soaps and the shampoos and things like that, because it's hard to flip the little lid, even a lid that opens up.   I wanna get rid of the little toilet lid covers and the little furry toilet seat covers, things like that that at one point a long time ago was really cool, but it's really not sanitary as we get older to have those on our toilets. There are a lot of things like that that we didn't get a chance to cover today. So we're gonna be revisiting this conversation and leaving comments like that in the notes below. I wanna thank all of you guys for joining us today. This was so awesome. Many of you have said such great things in the comments about scales and chairs and making sure that you have the right chairs and the right toilet seats and the things that people have done to try to keep their homes safe. So I do appreciate you guys joining us. And Brenda, thank you so much for your time today. This was really informative. And tell our listeners where they can go to find you and take your assessment. Well, they can find me on my website at tidymyspace.ca or they can just directly email me at Brenda at tidymyspace.ca and I'm on all the social media channels. Just look me up Brenda Scott or tidymyspace.ca. Everywhere. Thank you so much for today. This was really awesome. And I appreciate you guys jumping in and adding your questions and joining the conversation. So thank you and tell them we see you again. Take care and please leave the world a cleaner place than we...