Bwm, mae'r ond. Yn ymwneud yma, mae'n gweithio i chi'n gweithio plattonwau yng Nghymru, y dywedig ystod y Llywodraeth Lwcwagol yn Canpa Van. Felly, yn ymgyrch, yn ymdweud y glenn, plattonwau'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Felly, ydych yn ei wneud yw'r ffordd yng nghymru, yw'r ffordd yng nghymru, yw'r gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. If you've ever dreamed of owning your own Volkswagen camper van, now's your chance as you can save £500 by using the code James500. All you have to do is speak to one of your friendly sales team and say that James English sent you there. Now, let's get into the episode. You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications button so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. Bwm, yw'r ond? Yw'r ond? A t'w ddeisgeis yw'r UFC legend, Michael Bysping. Thank you, James. Thanks for coming on. My pleasure. I was just about to say thanks for having me there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Relax, calm down.  How are you being there? I'm good, I'm good. We were just saying a moment ago before we started, very, very busy obviously promoting this film here, which is a sentence I never thought I'd be saying, promoting the documentary about my life. Yeah, things are great, incredibly busy, which is a blessing, it is. You know, I never take anything for granted. As a former fighter or a former athlete, you know, you always kind of worry what you're going to do afterwards. You know, and certainly for me, I was always worried, you know, what am I going to do when it's all over? Yeah, things are good. Things are really, really good. So yeah, to answer your question in a long roundabout way, I'm good. Good on you. I always go back to the start of my guests, where you grew up, how it all began. Yeah, 45 minutes away from me, a little time called Clithero. I mean, I was born in Cyprus on an army base, but you know, grew up in Clithero. Yeah, you know, I just, I mean, if you watch the film, you'll know all about it, but just, you know, just a very, very average young lad, just getting in a few scraps here and there and whatnot. You know, I did martial arts when I was a kid and love that. Left school at 16. Nothing, nothing, nothing particularly noteworthy, to be honest. How well you at school? How well you at school? How was I at school?  You've got that accent. How was I at school? Yeah, no, no. I had good grades. You know what I mean?  Well, I was a terrible pupil. I didn't care about school. I never applied myself whatsoever. And that's one of my biggest regrets, to be honest. But you know, I didn't have a bad brain on me. So I still somehow, somehow managed to get decent GCSEs when I left school, even though weirdly enough, I was quite proud of this. I went for five years of secondary school without doing homework once. But in our house, it was such a volatile household. It wasn't really like you could sit down at the dining room table and do your homework. It was kicking off all the time. But when I left school, as I say, I got some decent GCSEs. So I went to college for a little bit. I went to Blackburn College, but I had no idea what I wanted to do. And I remember looking at a college prospectus and my dad, because I got decent GCSEs, I could qualify for the Advanced Electronical Engineering course. I've got no interest in Electronical Engineering. I know nothing about it and I had no business being on the advanced course. Everyone else on the course had already done a year to get to that point, but I had decent grades. So I qualified for it. I did not understand anything. It was all well over my head, far too advanced for me. Because I didn't understand, I stopped listening.  So I just listened to my own mixes at the back of the classroom and then I just stopped going. I remember my dad. He was like, are you going to college? I'm like, yeah, yeah, of course I am. And there was this little cafe by the bus stop and he'd come and sit in this cafe just to make sure I was getting on the bus. I'd give the bus driver 20p and get off at the next stop. And then I'd just walk around for hours on end. So, yeah, that was my college experience. And your dad, he was a sniper? Yeah, yeah.  I've had a couple of snipers on the podcast and they struggled mentally as well. Did that play a major effect on yourself as a kid?  But that was in the army. I was born in an army base, so I don't remember any of that. But, you know, I talked about this in the film a little bit.   They did the best by us, you know? Times were hard, money was tight. We had six, you know, they had six kids.  Do you know what I mean? And he went from being a sergeant major in the army and a sniper to all of a sudden working as a petrol pump attendant. Do you know what I mean? And I can only imagine what that must have been like. Do you know what I mean? And I'm not making excuses for him because there was violence in the house. You know, there was a lot of violence in the house, you know, but I'm sure he was going through some kind of depression and PTSD. He was, he was, you know, he was involved in some heavy stuff. I know that now as a man, you know?  You know, my dad supported me every step of the way and you know, he's part of the reason why I'm standing there having this conversation with you now because when he realised I had a fflair for martial arts as a kid, he would drive me all over the place. He did with all of us. You know, with Conrad, he was good at rugby and canoeing. And again, he did everything he could to support us. Yeah, he had a temper. Yeah, he was a bit of a, bit of a mad man. Do you know what I mean? But he loved us daily and passionately. Do you know what I mean? And yeah, he was quick with his fists and whatnot. Do you know what I mean? But it was also a different time and I'm not excusing him. Do you know what I mean? He was kind of accepted back then wasn't he? Yeah, yeah, weirdly enough, weirdly enough. Do you know what I mean? And I'm not saying I'm not justifying what he did. Do you know what I mean? But yeah, it was a little different. And my dad was a bit extreme. Do you know what I mean? But yeah, giving your kids around the Ed wasn't frowned upon. Not that I mean ours was a little bit different. I remember, I hope he doesn't see this. But I remember my son, he wrestles in his college in San Francisco and he came out to watch one of his wrestling tournaments and we were sitting at the hotel and we were having a beer and I sat him in ages and we just got chatted about old times, right?  The TV licence inspector, you know what I mean?  And I come in from school and there's a guy in a suit sitting there in our front room and lo and behold, it was the TV licence inspector. But I didn't know and my dad's sitting there saying, yeah, we've got a TV but we don't watch it. You know what I mean? We don't use it because we haven't got a licence. You know, we're very honest. And I walk in from school and just walk in, plunked the TV on straight away.  I said, I mean, he just got talking about that somehow. And my dad goes, yeah, good times, good times. I said, good times.  But yeah, there you go. That's kind of like what it was like in our eyes.  Do you think all that shit? 100%. As I say, I love my dad. I love my mum and dad. My mum was just as bad as my dad, let's be honest. But yeah, without question. Without question, you know what I mean?  I owe all the brothers as well. And listen, I was always getting in fights as well. But that's all I'd seen, do you know what I mean? I'm not making excuses for it because I'm responsible for my own actions. But I thought it was kind of normal to get into a fight. I thought it was kind of normal to, you know, if you had a problem to use your fists because that's what I saw in the house, do you know what I mean? So obviously I was getting in a lot of fights and from there you end up getting in trouble. You know what I mean? Trouble with the police and whatnot. But yeah, to answer your question. Yeah, of course. But I always had a flare for martial arts as well. I was good at that and I loved it because I wasn't good at sports. I was terrible at sports, you know what I mean? I had two left feet when it came to football and wasn't particularly coordinated. I was kind of clumsy and whatnot. But when I started doing martial arts, I'd found something I was good at, do you know what I mean? And it was a great feeling. So all that stuff together and of course getting your face smashed enough. Your foot went down on a daily basis, doesn't it? You ended up in the gym, was it for 28 days? Yeah. What was that for, kicking somewhere in the head? Yeah, it was actually a public order offence. Do you know what I mean? So no one pressed charges because they started it all. But I finished it. Self-defence?  So obviously, and I went to break it up and then boom, another one of them makes punch me in the back of the head. So it all kicked off and then we got outside and yeah, I ended up kicking one of them in the head and the police pulled up and everyone legged it, this cop says. Saw the whole thing, Michael. No point running. I thought at the end there's no point. It's a small tile. They're going to be waiting for me outside of my house and went to court and as I say, it was only a public order offence but it was the straw that brought the camels back. You know what I mean? I'd been there a few times and the judge was like, this guy's not learning. You know what I mean? So he gave me a little sentence and to be honest, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. It really was because I wasn't learning and I was very flipping and I just, I didn't care, you know? And I had a beautiful girlfriend. She's now my wife with two... No, sorry, we didn't have two kids. What am I saying?  You know what I mean? I was still very immature and when I went to prison, I remember sitting in the holding cell before they take you to your cell and whatnot and just looking round and thinking, wow, is this it? Is this what my life's destined to be?  You know, I remember with some guy I kept, oh, you're all right, man.   I'm not one of you. And I said to myself there and then that day I said, right, that's it. I've got to make a change. This is not what I want from my life. This is not who I want to be. So as I say, you know, I'm in a random way grateful to that judge because definitely taught me a lesson. So what was the plan of action when you came out then? Your Mrs is pregnant. Your mum and dad probably feel let down as well. That you're 20 days.   Yeah, well, as you say, 28 days. I mean, it's nothing really. But as you say next time, it would have been six months and then two years and whatever.   Do you know what I mean? That's not what you want out of life.  Do you know what I mean? Cos I didn't care.  Do you know what I mean? So I got a job working at an upholstery factory as a quality control inspector. And you know, I was doing that for a couple of years. I mean, you know, it was, I was all right, but I was like, there's got to be more to life than this. I remember this guy, Mickalene. He was my supervisor at the time and he came up to me and he said, Mike, he said, is this what you want to do for the rest of your life? I said, no. He said, well, you need to give it some thought. He said, because before you know it, 20 years are going to pass by just like that, you know, and I did think about it and I think, what am I going to do? What am I going to do in my life? And I was doing some soul searching and then I went up to him on there and said, Mick, I figured it out what I'm going to do. He goes, oh, what's that? He takes his tool belt off and he's walking over. What's the big idea then? I said, I'm going to be a professional fighter.  I said, no, I said, trust me, Mick. I know what I'm talking about here. And he did. He thought I was out of my mind.  Do you know? And that's what everyone thought. And I was given an opportunity by one of my old senseis when I was a kid. I never even heard of the UFC. I mean, no, sorry. That's a lie. I'd heard of it, but I wasn't conscious of it. I'd heard of it when it first came out, but I wasn't aware of it. You know, it wasn't something I was looking at or considering, but he told me all about it. And he said, Michael, there's a lot of money to be earned.  You're bona fide celebrities. You make money and all the rest of it.  I'll give it a shot. And yeah. So everyone was laughing at me. All the lads at work and said, I'm quitting work. I'm moving away. I'm going to become a professional fighter.  Everyone was laughing at me. Even my own mates, even a lot of people, you know, they're close to me in my hometown. I'm like, what's he doing? They're already skin and he's quitting work to become a professional fight. Oh, because he thinks he's hard. Do you know what I mean? But yeah. How was that for you to try and prove people wrong? No, I didn't care. That wasn't my mission. I wasn't trying to prove people wrong. I was trying to prove myself right. If you will, I was trying to, you know, trying to make something of myself, but more importantly, provide for my children and my wife, you know. How wronged were you? 20, 20. This was 2003 to 24. That's when you've been into the contender? Yeah, the ultimate. Well, no, yeah. So this guy said, if you quit work and let me train you, he said, if you get to top five in the country, I'll pay you a loss of earnings. That was the deal he made me. And I said, well, I thought, I know I can be top five in the country. I know I can. So I quit work and started training down in Nottingham Monday to Friday. I'd come back at the weekends and do a bit of DJing. And then, yeah, within two years, I think I had 10 professional fights. So I became the Kage Royce champion, Kage Royce champion, FX3 champion, British kickboxing champion. So things were going well. And then, yeah, they came out to the UK looking for two guys for the ultimate fighter. So Dan at Earl's Court, we had open auditions, but everyone else auditioning. I knocked them all out. Did you know what I mean? So I was like, yeah, I'm a shoe in here. So yeah, that's how that came about. What was that feeling for you to begin over at the States? Mate, unreal, unreal. Like there's a little bit of it on the documentary when these van pulls up outside the house. For those that don't know, it's like big brother. Except every week, two guys fight. And I've never even been to America in my life. Do you know what I mean? And now here I am in Las Vegas. It's a massive mansion on a reality TV show. Get into fight. And it was just the most exciting, unbelievable experience of my life. It was, yeah, I loved it. I mean, it was lonely. You know what I mean? No contact with the outside world and all the rest of it. But it was a crazy experience. And I loved it, yeah. Cos UFC wasn't big then.  Was it not? That show kind of changed the game for it, man. And gave it the platform to then kick on. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Exactly. For those that don't know, so Dana White and the Fatita brothers, they bought the UFC, I think it was 2003. And they changed it. You know, they brought in all the athletic commissions. Cos back in the day, there was no rules pretty much. There was no time limits. There was no weight classes. So they tried to mould it into a proper sport and got the athletic commissions involved. And they believed in it. But at one point they were like $45 million in debt, you know? And they were like, right, what can we do? Because the UFC wasn't even allowed on TV. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't even allowed on cable TV in America. Porn was, but the UFC wasn't allowed. Excuse me. So they thought, right, we'll do this reality TV. This was their final attempt. This is right, we'll put some money into this. God knows how many million. We'll put some money into this. But if this doesn't work, that's it. And they had the first season of The Ultimate Fighter. I was on season three. But the first season of The Ultimate Fighter, the final was two guys called Stefan Bonner and Forrest Griffith. And day four, and it was on Spike TV, which is like a regular TV channel in America. And when the fight was happening, because it was a crazy fight, like the viewing figures just went crazy and people were calling each other up saying, have you seen this fight on this channel? And it just exploded from there. And that is what saved the UFC. And then from there, it just became this, you know, not overnight success, but that was the true turning point. In season two, three, four, it just got bigger and bigger and bigger to what it is today. And you won it, you were the first British person ever to win it. Yeah, yeah, season three, I went out there, yeah. So, yeah, yeah. And how was that connected to the final match? No, there's a six figure deal there for you. Change your life. Your message is there. You're stuck by how you think and feel it. Did you feel a lot more pressure then than you did when you were fighting for the world title? I felt tremendous pressure. You know what I mean? Because at that point, you know, it's still a million miles away from, you know, having any kind of success in my life. Yeah, I'd had a few fights and maybe had a bit of TV time. You know what I mean? But that's not what I was trying to achieve. I remember when I was at the final in Las Vegas and right before we started, I was like looking at the lights and stuff.  I'm a coach at the time. So, Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael, just remember every training session that you've ever done all comes down to this moment.  I see you're not helping. Do you know what I mean? You're pouring the pressure on it, Jesus. But yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was, yeah, it was a good time. And then when you won that, you got your deal. When you won your first, was it six, seven fights in the UFC? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, I'm a first fight at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas 2006. Yeah, then I'm the first one in Manchester after that. Yeah, Lost of a Shard Evans. There's his name on there. Contentious split decision. You know what I mean? It was very, very close fight, but he got me. So after that, I moved down to the middle weight because I was a little small for light heavyweight. Yeah. What was it like getting your first loss? Well, I mean, it's cliche to say, but you learn from your losses.  But if anything, you might develop bad habits or whatever because you're getting away with it. You know, you're doing great. When I lost to a shard, obviously I went 15 and 0. You know, so I had a good run, but I was like, right, you've got to do some, you're going to look at yourself. You've got to analyse why you lost. And the first thing that stuck out was that I was too small for the weight class because on the day of the weigh-ins, he was sitting in a sauna trying to dehydrate himself like 20 pounds. And I was sitting in a Chinese restaurant eating noodles and drinking 7-up. And I said, well, I'm not making all the sacrifices I can do. I can make to be the best version of myself, am I?  You know, the diet was wrong. I over-trained. I was a little weak. I need to do more of this. My cardio wasn't good, you know what I mean? And it's a working progress. You know, so that's why, you know, I won the bell late in my career. You know, I think I was one of the oldest guys to do it to become champ.  And for me, the main thing that I learned was about the mentality of it. You know, I mean, obviously fighting is a very physical sport, but the mind controls everything. And I used to be an emotional wreck. Yeah, I still am in many ways. You know, my emotions were always all over the place.  How do you deal with that? Yeah. Well, fortunately, I met a great coach, Jason Parillo. He's kind of like a mentor to me. And he just, he was very patient. He just works with me. You know, like, for example, I remember when I got the world title fight, two weeks notice, I was doing this film. Came from set, sounds very loud if I can die. Apologise. Came from set and went straight to the gym and I was training. I was doing jiu-jitsu with my jiu-jitsu coach and he's very good. That's why he's my jiu-jitsu coach and he was getting me a little bit.  I want to do good. I wasn't stressing at him, but I was stressing at him, but he wasn't the reason. And anyway, Parillo says to me, he says, he says, my look, listen, he said, you're fighting for the world title in two weeks time. He said, we think you're going to win with your coaches. He said, but you might not. Right? You might not win. He said, if you don't win, this is it. This is the pinnacle of your career. You're in a great position. You're the main event. You're fighting for the world championship. You're on pay-per-view. Your face is on the poster. You're going to fight on TV all over the world. It's a great position to be. Many people want to be in that position.  He said, oh, we can go through this next two weeks with you spazzing out and all being angry and we all arguing or whatever. Oh, we can enjoy the process. It's up to you.  My God. And just when you look at it from a different perspective, look at it through a different lens, it just changes your perspective on everything. And then from that day forward, we went there and like the kind of the pressure was kind of eradicated a little bit. I was like, all right. No, I am in a good position. This is incredible. This is fun. You know, I am a lucky man. Do you know what I mean? So that kind of changed everything. Fetal Belfar. Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, he's well known for taking a little steroids. But I just want to ask myself a question about something. I read something I said earlier. I hope it doesn't get taken out of context.  Do you know what I mean? That's an expression in it. Do you know what I mean? I was like, is that going to get twisted? It shouldn't.  Do you know what I mean? But anyway, yeah. No, he takes a lot of steroids. He's well known. He's a prolific cheat.  But you know what? I mean, I knew he was probably going to be on steroids, but that's the arrogance of a fighter. Do you know what I mean? I said, all right, well, whatever. You know, that's his weakness. You know, he feels the need to do that. I don't feel the need. Yeah.  My retina is detached. That's when you lost your day. Yeah.  It's unbelievable to lose your eye, keep fighting, kind of lying, cheating. That's kind of the bad boy for the back in the day.  When you're going through that and then I wait for you to say, look, your career's over. And your career was just kind of flourishing then. You were kind of starting to get into the limelight. Look, how was that feeling then when you think, did you know automatically, right?  Like it's not over? Yeah. No, no, I was just talking about this a second ago when Dana called me, you know, he's wearing different hats because then is obviously the president of the UFC, but he's also been a really good friend to me over the years as well. I've got tremendous respect for him. So when he called me, he was calling me as the UFC and my as my promoter to say, listen, you can't fight anymore, but he was also talking to me as a friend to say, mate, your eyes, folks, you're never going to fight again. So for me, it was it was tough to take, you know, and I was fighting back the tears. I remember I was outside target. I just nip down with my wife. I think we should buy some whatever it was for the house toilet roll or something. And, and, you know, and then he's telling me that my career is over and I was fighting back the tears and I went to see the doctor and, you know, to get confirmation. Then yeah, he was like, yeah, you need to have twenty two hundred vision to be clear to fight, which is still classed as clinically blind. But still, you know, it is a requirement. But he said he gave me a little glimmer of hope. He said, you know, he said sometimes I have seen it. If people, you know, rest, they don't do anything. They don't get the heart rate up. They really take it easy. Sometimes it can improve. He says very rare, but sometimes it can improve. Well, that was it. That was the glimmer of hope. That's all I needed, you know what I mean? So I spent the next best part of a year literally sitting on a couch, depressed as fuck, drinking a lot. Do you know what I mean? Going through, yeah, some some dark times. Do you know what I mean? I feel sorry for myself, basically, you know, because of my career been taken away. And as you say, I would just start everything was going great. Everything was going. We just moved to America, you know, so all an exciting time. And then all of a sudden we move out there and then all this, you know, and the eye wasn't getting better. In fact, if anything, it was getting worse and it slowly slowly got worse. And this is a prosthetic lens. It looks terrible without it in.  You know, I've got to do what I've got to do. So I've got to start lying and cheating and scamming the test.  You know, doctors are kind of nerds. Do you know what I mean? You can pull them all over their eyes. So it's bastard, doesn't it? The smart, they're not street smart. You know what I mean?  See when you're getting through your depression there for a year and you're boozing and kind of probably putting on weight. How does that affect your wife and your kids?  Can you can you see a part of that in your dad as well being with the adrenaline rush being a sniper? And then it getting took away from him. Then he's pumping gas. Like did you see a kind of resemblance there? Not yet until you just mentioned it now. Yeah, I never saw a parallel in that, but I can kind of see it. I see the angle you're coming from.  I don't deserve her. She's just she's been my absolute rock and she doesn't want anything from me. You know, she doesn't. She has no expectations or anything. She's the best person, best thing that ever happened to me. And she was just so supportive the whole time. You know what I mean? All she wanted was and still to this day just what's best for me. Couldn't care less about money or anything like that. That doesn't excite her. Keep telling like she doesn't want me to work so much right now.  Do you know what I mean? It's not a money tree. Do you know what I mean?  And the point I'm making is like she was just supported from day one and whatever was best for me. And then when I when I decided I was going to carry on fighting and I was trying to I mean, what happened was I went to the doctor one day and I kept going every week and every week and you're sitting in there. And it's all like, you know, people that are in the 80s and 90s with cataracts and stuff like that. And I would sit there in these waiting rooms. I think I feel sorry for myself. I'm like, look at all these people at the end of the life. I'm in my prime. I'm a professional athlete. I'm a fighter and I'm sitting here with these old biddies. Do you know what I mean? I don't deserve to be here.  And we're going back week after week after week. And one day I went in and my regular doctor wasn't there. This other guy was there. He said, Michael, he said, you keep coming. I see on the records you come every week. Well, why do you come in? I said, doc, I said, I've got to fight again. Do you know what I mean? I said, I'm just coming. I'm trying to see if there's been a little bit of improvement. As soon as you say there's an improvement, bum, I'm back. Do you know what I mean? And he said to me, he said, all right, well, why don't you start training? Why don't you start training and, you know, we'll see what happens? I said, hold on a minute. I said, I've been told that I can't ever get my heart rate up. I said, and now you're telling me I can start training. And he says to me, he says, Michael, my dad always said, and I say this in the film. So there's two types of men in the jungle. First man swings through the jungle on a vine and waits until they have hold of another one before they let go of that one. He said, the other man swings through the jungle. Let's go to the vine and they hope that they catch the other one. He said, something tells me you're that second type of man, Michael.  He said, all right. He said, well, start training again. And then, you know, we'll see what happens and what happened from those. I started training. I called the UFC and said, you know, I'm back. And then they went, oh, no, we're going to get your eyes checked.  And they sent me to doctors and they're choosing and whatnot. And yeah, as I said, just totally black dick, bullshitted, lied guest. You know, there was one test. You have to put your eyes in this thing and like these little lights line light up. And when you see one, you have one on your left and one on your right hand. And when you see a little light, you push it, but you just go look forward. Obviously I can't see past my nose. I can't see my hand there at all.   And then like sometimes I just memorized the eye test. You know, I saw this sweet Indian doctor and I went in. And of course he doesn't know I'm trying to black the test. He thinks I'm trying to check on my eyes like a normal person. Do you know what I mean? So he covers up because I remember he went. He walked this old guys, the patient that was there first.  So I go in and there's the eye chart there. I was like an old fashioned one. It was like it wasn't digital. Excuse me. And all I got to know is the top letter, which is massive. And then the two bigger ones underneath it. I don't need to know the rest of them. I know that that's 2200 vision. Just got to know those top three letters. So I just memorise them like C, D, E, spin it round, F, L, M, whatever.  And he says, right? What can you see? And I'm like, go down the whole list and he doesn't spin it round or anything and he covers up my other eyes that right? What can you see?  I'm like, C, D, E, I'm like, oh, it's getting a bit blurry now dog. And he goes, right? He says, well, you've passed. You've passed. He said, but you shouldn't fight. He said, if anything happens to your other eyes, you're going to go blind. He said, do not fight. I'm like, oh, yeah. You're right, dog. I'll give it some thought. I'll talk it over with my family and yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, but then I walked out.  The stress was crazy. Do you know what I mean? For me, the fighting was the easy part. The fighting was that was easy. You know what I mean? That was like, well, finally I made it. The hard part was getting to the fight, you know what I mean? And calling everyone and lying to everyone and bullshitting the whole time. Do you know what I mean? It was very stressful. How do you think your life would have been if you never got back fighting? Oh, well, at the time we just moved out to America and we just bought this big stupid house that we didn't need.  I'm happy to say that just got thrown out recently and he owes me a ton of money. But at the time, you know lawsuits, you got to you got to fight them.  It was totally made up and totally fabricated. So that was costing a lot of money. So to answer your question, if I hadn't got back fighting. I don't know. I'd probably be back in Clithero now. You know, I don't know. I'd like to see maybe doing something better, but you know, probably just living a normal life having a job.  Maybe I would have, maybe I'd be training people, something like that maybe. But at that time I didn't have any of the opportunities that I have now. You know, and in many ways I'm grateful for what happened with my eye because that I knew my fight career was on borrowed time.  You can't fight. Do you know what I mean? So I was using my platform for one of a better word to open as many doors as I could. So I started doing a podcast, started doing pre and post fight shows, started doing weighing shows, started trying to work on an acting career. Trying to do anything I could whilst I had a little bit of an opportunity to do that. So then by the time I came to Victoria, I mean, I've already got about 20 or different jobs that I do now.  What was it like your first feet back off the 1A? Yeah, it was tough. I mean, I lost to Tim Kennedy. So I mean, I went from being sitting on the couch for over a year being well out of shape and, you know, unfit and overweight. I called the UFC and they said, oh, we can stick on a fight card in six weeks. And yeah, boom, let's do it. Did all the main. So I went from doing nothing for a year to six weeks later fighting. I went to a decision five rounds and got just got out of wrestle. That was terrible, but it was an adjustment period. Like even now, like when I grabbed that, like the first few times, I'll miss it, you know, because I've got no depth perception, but I can see, you know, I can kind of judge it, but the first few times I miss. So in terms of fighting, obviously that's that's challenging, you know what I mean, because I've seen 2D. So yeah, it was definitely an adjustment phase. And I wasn't even aware of it when my coach at the time was, you know, he was he was working towards like trying to fix that, engaging my my distance and stuff like that. But because I didn't know a lot. I did a book quit is never win. And the author won the author, the co-author, the guy that ghost wrote it for me, Anthony Evans. He put some stats in the back and I didn't even know this before the eye injury. I had I used to use my job basically a lot, lot more. You know what I mean? But then afterwards I wasn't using my job. You know what I mean? I wasn't even conscious of that at the time. But obviously that just goes to show because I couldn't gauge it. You know what I mean? Look rock cold. How did you know? Did you not spar with him? Was it him you sparred with?  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, we sparred together one day. He was the strike force champion, which was like the next biggest organisation in America after the UFC. And I did an interview one day. Someone said, oh, I saw you were sparring with Luke Rockhold recently. How did that go? And I'm like, well, you shouldn't really talk about sparring. But let's put it like this. I'm the unofficial strike force champion of the world, right? It was just a joke. See, look at you. You're laughing.  He did not find it funny. He did not find it funny. So, yeah, you know, we ended up fighting. How was that for you? The first one? Yeah. It was sounds like an excuse. I started an excuse. Headbutt one up. It beat me fair and square.  Anyway, just for the views that don't know. There we go. Boom. That's what you wanted in it. So, because they're all like, his eyes look fine. Do you know what I mean? That's why I did that.  Anyway, so this eye doesn't work. And then right before I flew off to Australia, the fight was in Sydney. I was grappling and a guy need me in the head. One of my training partners by accident. I opened up a big cut right above this eye. And when we got to Australia, when we were doing the square ups and stuff, he kept saying, oh, look at that. You got stitches in your eye, Mike. I'm like, yeah, so what? I've been training, you know what I mean? And I remember day of the fight, as I say, I was always worried, you know, that I was going to get rumbled because of my eye. I remember walking into the arena day of the fight and as I walked in, oh God, I feel nauseous. Too much coffee in an empty stomach. As I'm walking into the arena, like some of the UFC staff came up to me these two ladies, like Michael, Michael, Michael. The doctor needs to see you right now. I'm like, doctor needs to see me. Why? Why? Something to do with your eye. I'm like, oh God, I'm like, this is it. This is the moment I've been training. I've been rumbled. We're fucked. Day of the fight, you know what I mean? So I was terrified. And I had to sit in this room and wait for the doctor to come in. The doctor comes in and I said, what's up, doc? He says, you can't fight with stitches in. You're going to take those stitches out. He just took the stitches out and that was it.  And then in the fight, after about a minute or so, we clashed heads or he had butted me in whichever way you want to put it. And the couch opened up and blood was pouring into this eye. And if you watch the fight, you can see it. It sounds like an excuse, but it's true. But I've only got one eye and when blood was going into that, I couldn't see. It was just red and I'd wipe it and I'd see for a second, but then more blood would go in it. And it's like if you put a tub of paint on a car windscreen and put the windscreen wipers on, it's just going to smear, isn't it? That's how I could see. It was just like a red blur. And then, you know, throughout that time, I got kicked in the head and fair play to him. He got me. But after that, I was very frustrated because I couldn't talk about it. I couldn't say, you know, otherwise I would never fight again. So there was a bitter pill to swallow. So I had to stand there and say, yeah, he beat me fair in the square.  He seemed to have knew that your eyes were fucked. He seemed to have knew that what you were doing on the fight anyway and you're listening to him speak on your kinder film is if he knew because he waited and waited because you changed your dynamics of the way you used to fight. Yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, you just saw when I took that lens out. You think people knew? Oh, of course they did. Of course they did. I mean, I mean, as I say, without the lens and you can clearly tell and I only got this a couple of years ago, you know what I mean? I didn't know these things existed. I actually went to the doctor. I wanted him to take my eyeball out and put a glass eye in because I was very self-conscious about the way it looked. Do you know what I mean? And every time I looked in the mirror, I just couldn't stand my reflection. But so yeah, so everyone knew about it. Do you know what I mean? And it was like the worst kept secret. And he was like, you know, I don't know. I was still fighting though. Like even George Shakespeare when I lost my belt, he was sitting on the microphone to rogue on afterwards. He said, yes, we know he cannot see out of this side. So the plan was the left hook. Fair enough. Hey, hey, old fairing lover. Exactly. When you got there, you kind of went on a win streak again. Did you ever feel that you'd always won a world title when you were going on that win streak and then you had Anderson Silver, was it? Yeah.  Yeah. But did you feel that you were always going to win a world title? No, I didn't, to be honest. I mean, obviously that was always the plan. I was always working towards that. And if that would happen, fantastic. And of course, you know, I got to, I was in like three or four number one contender fights prior to being the champ. And I was proud of that in itself, you know, just to be a professional fighter and get to a number one contender fight.  That's what I would tell myself. Well, it's hard to be a number one contender several times. Of course, nobody wants to be the number one contender. But I was, I was, I'd come to terms with my lot in life. Do you know what I mean? I knew I had one eye. I knew I couldn't see. I was still fighting. I was earning really good money. Do you know what I mean? I was like, if a world championship comes along great, but if not, I'm still doing all right. Do you know what I mean? I've still managed to turn my life around. I'm still still having a fight career. And I was getting into my late 30s anyway. Do you know what I mean? So I was like, well, it's probably not going to happen. Of course, still still hoped for it, still worked towards it, still didn't give up on it. Do you know what I mean? But also at the same time, you're going to be a realist and say, well, I'm pushing 40 now.  Do you know what I mean? I'm probably not going to get it. So yeah, that was kind of like my mindset. If it comes along great, if not, well, so what? Happy day still. And Anderson Silva was that London? Yeah. What was that when you got the Colt if I had him? It was great. It was Christmas Eve and I was supposed to fight Gagard Musassi. He was a tough, tough fighter. He's the Bellator champ now. And Christmas Eve, I get a phone call of Dana White and he says, yeah, he says we're thinking of changing up your opponent. Anderson Silva.  He says, yeah, Merry Christmas because I'd always wanted to fight Anderson because he was the champion. He was a long time champion. He defended the belt. I think it was like 14 times. You know what I mean? He was the best fighter that the UFC had ever seen. And I always thought I could beat him and he'd lost the belt. He'd been beaten by Chris Wyman. But not really. He was dicking about. He was messing about and he got caught with the shot. That was all. But you know, I always wanted to fight him when he was a champ. Now he wasn't a champ. But still, for me, that was my world title fight. You know, I was like, OK, well, it doesn't get much bigger than this. Find out the O2 arena, you know, sold out crowd Anderson Silva. Still the greatest of all time. So for me, that was my world title fight. And that was the approach that I went into that fight with. So I left no stone unturned in the training camp. I was the most disciplined they'd ever been. And yeah, I mean, I got the job done, but definitely got a few extra scars on my face. It was it was I was cruising to a victory.  And then my gum shield came out in the third. And as I say, I don't see out of this eye. So if you're Anderson Silva, my mouthpiece gum shield comes out and the referee's not stopping the fight for me to put it back in. You know what I mean? So I'm like, I'm backing off and I'm waiting for the ref. And in the end, I turn, I go ref and I point at my mouthpiece. But see when I turn that, I can't see you now. You don't exist like my hand doesn't exist there. And then when I turned back, he was in mid air and he fly and need me right in the face.  And he thought he'd won the fight because as the knee hit me, the round ended. So the referee jumped him and he thought he'd won. So he was celebrating. I was on the floor covered in blood. I'm like, I'm not unconscious. He's like, yeah, no, I know the fight's still on. So it was pandemonium. But yeah, Rath's four and five pulled it back. That really set you off.  I was no doubt all the fights beforehand. But that was the one that really cemented you as an absolute lunatic.  Like it was what's all out.  Or I've been the best in the world? Or was that your world title fight? You accepted that? Yeah, it was funny.  Uh, he even said to me, he said, he said, Michael, he said, you just painted under the silver. Why didn't you call for a title fight? Do you know that? And it's a good question because I should have done because I should have made the most out of the opportunity. But yeah, I just think I was just to overcome with emotion. Do you know what I mean? I couldn't think past the next part.  It meant a lot to me that fight. Do you know what I mean? It was like a lifelong ambition. It was something I always worked towards. So at that moment of time, you know, with blood, I had about 30 stitches in my face. Do you know what I mean? Cuts here, cuts there, cuts there all over the place. And I was just living in that moment. Do you know what I mean? After that, I was very lucky. I got, I went for an audition. I got a part in a Vin Diesel movie, Triple X, Returners on the Cage. And that was mind blowing for me that I got that part. So I'm up into Ronto. I'm filming a movie. You know what I mean?  Do you know what I mean? I'm like, well, this is all right, isn't it? That's easy on me. Yeah, this is all right. And then, yeah, you know, and then we talked about it before. You know, I got an opportunity to fight for the belt at the last minute. How was that feeling for you? It was mixed emotions because I always wanted to fight for the belt. But then I remember when I found out, I was because I asked to do it. And I didn't think I was going to get the opportunity in the night before. You know, went to a basketball game, had a few beers and whatnot. And I woke up a bit ropey in the morning.  I'm going to go to the gym. I've got to be on set later.  Do you know what I mean? All right. So I'm going to go to sauna. I'm going to sweat it all out. I'll be good by tonight. And as I walked in the gym, that's when I found out. So I was freaking out. You know, I get on the scale. I'm 30 pounds over the weight limit that I needed to be. So over two stone.  Me and my mouth, I got myself in the right situation here. So then I run out the gym and I'm running through the streets of Toronto. I'm like, I'm just going to run. I'm just going to run. I've got to get in shape. I've got to lose some weight. And as I'm running, I start having all these negative thoughts. I'm thinking this is just typical in it.  And now I get it on two weeks notice. I haven't been near a gym in three months.  And I've still got to finish filming a movie and the fights in two weeks and I've 30 pounds over weight. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, this is just typical because what's going to happen is I'm going to get beat in the fight. And the people can say, oh, he was never that good anyway. No, he was never destined for that.     He said, you just beat and this is over the greatest of all time, not long ago. He said, stop thinking like this. You can do this. You know, so, yeah. And how, like, how does that then come into play when you're going through all the emotions through your life? You've got two weeks, notice that. Did you think that helped you because of your character that it was kind of more pressure? Oh, it definitely helped.   I wanted it so badly. And when you want something so badly and you obsess over it, it has a negative impact. Do you know what I mean?  Like, I've got no knees. I've got two total knee replacements because I just, I ran. I ran. I wanted to be in the best shape possible at all times. I was always the hardest working one in the room. I would be the first there, the last one to leave, you know? And I push myself to the absolute limit but also mentally as well. I would stress out and obsess over the fight and it meant so much to me. There was my only identity. It was my only way of making money for my family.    With this fight, I didn't have the ability to do that. Do you know what I mean? It was short notice. I was a 10 to one on the dog.  I didn't have time to over train. Normally in my training camps, I would start and I would feel strong and explosive and stuff. But by the end, I'd be skinny. I'd be weak. I'd be over trained. Over training is worse than under training, believe it or not because you just got no strength and no explosivity. So, you know, but that was because and it's a weakness, you know, over training. And another one that Prilla would always use to say, say, it takes confidence to take a day off. Do you know what I mean?  Having the confidence to take a day off means you know what? I'm good. I'm on track. Today I'm going to rest. I'm going to get a massage. I'm going to just do some stretching and whatnot. You know, when you're not confident, it's like, I'm going to run. I've got to train more.  That's mental weakness. It takes confidence to go. You know what? I'm good. I'm just going to chill today. You know, but I would never do that. Anyway, long roundabout way of saying is that with two weeks notice, I don't have time for any of that. And I felt no pressure.  Everyone expects me to lose anyway. I'll go out there, I'll swim for the fences, give him my best shot.  Oh, with great difficulty. But you know what? It wasn't, it was actually the easiest weight cut of my life. Why? Like for people that don't know, like we typically cut about 15 pounds of water weight.  So if you know how to manipulate that, you can temporarily dehydrate yourself and make yourself very light. I wish we didn't do it in MMA, but it's just part of the culture. So I had to lose, you know, about 15 old fashion pounds first, you know?  And then the weight cut that when I dehydrated myself was the easiest process ever, you know? It was like, you know, I don't know. It's like it was meant to be or something. You know, I've known that guy, but it was like... But it did you some steps to beg down to me. You know what I mean?  This is all going rather well, isn't it? This is all going to plan.  Yeah, I felt amazing when I walked out for that fight. I've never felt so good. I've never felt so confident. Never felt so calm. Never felt so like just like present and in the moment in my life.  You know, you're walking into the cage. There's your opponent. You're going to fight in a really vicious form of combat. You know, basically anything goes.  But other than that, pretty much everything's fair game. So you're going to fight properly. You know what I mean? The entire world's watching. There's 20,000 people in the arena.   There's a reason he's there. Do you know what I mean? And it's all posturing. Do you know what I mean? You're like trying to pretend that you're not scared. Do you know what I mean? And he's probably thinking the same thing, but inside you're like, fucking, what am I doing here? Why do I do this again?  On this occasion, there was none of that. I was like, yeah, I'm good. I'm good. And this just perfectly exemplifies that because when we went to the middle, right? And then the referee gives you an opportunity to touch gloves. I went to touch gloves and he goes, no, no touch. I said, well, no touch, no touch.  I said, I'll touch you in a second motherfucker. And the fact that I was making a joke in that moment that shows like that I wasn't stressed out. Do you know what I mean? The fact that I was being quick witted, you know, and my normal cocky self shows. I was I was in a very positive mind frame. So what was it like to lift a belt to be world champion and everything you've dreamt of was being a kid to come into that existence at that present moment? What is that feeling? It's hard to put into words, you know?  And it's something that I've held so close to my heart, which is bizarre.  I know it is. I know it's a personality flow. When I was younger, I was always fighting, but that's all I was good at, do you know what I mean? And I wasn't popular. I didn't have any friends, do you know what I mean? And but then when I started being able to fight and being one of the bad guys, if you will, then I started making friends in everything. And then I started leaning into that character as well. Do you know what I mean? So I was always getting in fights. I was always the badass or whatever lived in America too long. But do you know what I mean? And I was like that kind of became my identity and that's all I cared about.  We're going to find out. We'll meet tonight in the park. Half six, let's go.  Come on then. And I was always doing that. You know, someone in another town. Cock of another school. I was like, let's meet up then. Let's figure this out. And that was bizarre.  There's definitely something wrong there. But as I say, that was all I had and that's all I was, do you know what I mean? So anyway, to answer your question to fast forward all these years later and that kid that's still in Simon to this day that still does in many ways hold that close to his heart. You know what I mean? Yeah, it was the best feeling. But it was not just for me.   You know what I mean? She's been there every step of the way. So for her, for my children, for my parents, for everyone in England or the UK that supported me, you know, it just it was it was an amazing feeling. Do you think you'd have lost that for you would have retired? Well, that was the thing my wife said to me. She's right, Michael. She said, after this fight, are you going to retire?  What are you talking about? I said, if I lose, I'll retire. I said, but if I win, come on. That's a chance to make some proper championship money. But yeah, that was the plan. That was the plan. If I lost, I was going to retire. And then obviously I didn't lose. I won. So my plan from there was right. I'm going to try and defend this belt three times and then I'll retire. I never managed to do that, but I defended it in Manchester. I had a super fight in Madison Square Garden against George St Pierre. You know, I had a good little run. How was the GSP fight? He's a legend, isn't he? Yeah, yeah. Well, are you better against that? No, no, not bitter against it. I just came out with retirement, don't you? Yeah. I had the best training camp in my life for that one. And this, I was honestly, I was, I was performing so good in that training camp. I was knocked out so many people is born and that's not really something you should really brag about. But I was just on. Do you know what I mean? I wasn't trying to either.  And that's how I felt.  Last day I was supposed to fly to New York on the Saturday on the Friday. I wanted to do another five rounds of sparring. You know, even though I was flying, I was in the best shape ever. I'm like, no, come on. Let's do some more sparring.  I was like, I couldn't move and I went straight to the doctor and he says, yeah, it's not broken but all your cartilage is like kind of ripped and stuff. He said, I said, so what can I do? He says, oh, there's nothing you can do. You're just going to wait. I said, how long? He said a couple of months or so. I said, I'm fighting George St Pierre Madison Square Garden. I fly to New York tomorrow. He said, oh, you can't fight.  George is a big pay-per-view draw. This was going to be by far my biggest payday and help set me up financially. You know, I mean this would have probably paid more than a lot of my other fights put together. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, there's no way I'm pulling out of this fight doc. No way. This is my doctor, not the UFC doctor. And he says, right, okay. He says, so we came up with this plan. He says, what we can do is, he says you can inject yourself with lidocaine, right? He says that will numb it completely. You won't feel anything. He said, but the problem is it only lasts for about 45 minutes. He says, so we can't do it now. He said, you'll have to do it at the arena about 20 minutes before you go out and fight. He said, but you'll have to FaceTime me, right? And I'll walk you through it. He said, because if you get it wrong, you can puncture your lung and die for fuck's sake. So anyway, so I'm like, so he gives me a thing of lidocaine to take with me in a needle, a syringe. And I go to New York and I speak to the UFC first off the record. I speak to someone I said, I tell him the situation. I said, I want to make sure lidocaine isn't a banned substance. That was the conversation I was having.  You know what I mean? So I said, I said this. I've got a bit of an injury in there. My doc was talking about giving me some lidocaine. Is that an issue? And he said, well, you'd have to talk to the commission. He said, but the thing is Mike. He said, lidocaine isn't a banned substance. There's not a problem at all. He said, but if you tell the commission that you want to use lidocaine, they're going to know that you're injured.  You know, he said, so that's your call. It's up to you what you want to do.  I'm not telling the commission, am I?  And I'm not there. And I'm like, oh, fucking.  And they watch it every move. They watch what you drink.  And I remember I walked into the, I went to my bag and pretended I was getting something out and like slide the syringe.  I'm like, all right lads, I'm going to drop a deuce. Do you know what I mean?  So I sit in there and I'm like, am I really going to do this? This is crazy.  Anyway, so I went in that fight and the first round or so, I wasn't good.  You weren't moving too well. I was like, yeah, I couldn't move. Do you know what I mean? But I'm not taking away from his victory, but that is the actual scenario that I went in there with. Do you think you'd have won if you weren't injured? Yeah, I mean, listen. George is amazing. He's a great guy. He's a class act. He's an incredible martial artist. He's probably or if not the one of the greatest of all time. So I don't want to disrespect the guy and say that, but yeah, of course, I think I would have done better. For sure would have done better. Definitely would have done better.  You lost and then having to retire a lot. Was that a difficult decision?  I'm not so enough. Well, when I lost that to George, obviously, you know, why did you not retire then? I don't know. I don't know against a legend like that. Well, I wasn't going to go out like that. Do you know what I mean? I should have done in hindsight, but I hung around New York for a few days just like eating and drinking a bit too much. You know, nothing crazy. I was with my family. Do you know what I mean? We're just enjoying life.  Got home and then my wife's parents were staying at the house. They were watching my youngest, Lucas. So Beck and the oldest who could come to the fights. And so we went out for lunch with their mum and dad. And as we were driving to this restaurant, there's a radio station in America dedicated to MMA. I'm listening to that in the car and it comes on breaking news. Anderson Silver has tested positive for steroids again and he's out of his fight against Kelvin Gastelham in Shanghai. And they're currently looking for a replacement, right? And I'm driving and it's like a week after my fight. I'm still black and blue from the George St. Pierre fight. And my wife's there and my in-laws are in the back seat.  And they went, you can't do that. Michael, you just lost.  You can't fight. I said, yeah.  And then I said, you're looking for a replacement. He said, yeah. I said, I'll do it. He said, are you serious? I said, I said 100% deadly serious.  Oh, that was annoying and time consuming and worrying. And then fly out to Shanghai, China. Now all this is a, you know, it's a nice roundabout excuse for saying I got bingoed. It's your order babe, but I went out there and I didn't go out with the intention of winning. I thought I could win, but I had no business being there. When I looked back in hindsight, it was very, very foolish. I remember when I cut weight, when I cut that 15 pounds, I caught myself, I was walking by in my shirt off in my hotel room and I just caught my reflection. I stopped and looked at myself and I was disgusted with what I saw.  Trying to make weight and stuff. And anyway, the fight starts and boom, he catches me and he clips me and gets me and God bless him. And then after that fight, I was in a nightclub and I started having flashes out of this eye. You know, and every time I looked left and looked back that way, I get a flash of light.  And I looked left and looked back. That way, flash of light again. And every time I did it, I get a flash of light.  I know what this is because I've been through it with my other eye. And the doctors always, you know, always begged me, Mike, don't fight, don't fight. If anything goes wrong with your good eye, you're going to go blind. And I was like, well, lightning is not going to strike twice. It struck once with the other eye.  And you know, but so yeah, anyway, that was the reason to retire. And how's that? Is that a relief for your misses? Oh yeah. I think so. I think so. Yeah. I mean, yeah, like now I'm, I'm so slammed. I'm so busy. It's mental. She's always telling me not to work as I said before. I'm like, you don't understand. Someone has to pay the bills round there. Do you know what I mean? So yeah, when I retired, yeah, it was definitely a relief.    You've been, did you not get a gun put to your head? Oh yeah. And South Africa? In South Africa. Yeah. Yeah. I was shooting a TV show called Warrior. And we'd been out on Friday. We had the weekend off and out on a Friday night and had a few beers and come back. I'm getting an Uber back to my hotel and the Uber driver said it's like a one way system. And we're at a four ways crossroad. He said, just you might as well jump out here. Your hotel's like just there. He said for me to drop you outside it, I'm going to go all the way around the city in the one way loop, you know. So it makes sense, but I'm pissed in the back seat and I'm not listening to him. And he says, your hotel's just there. And I'm like, all right, mate. And I get out and I didn't see which way he pointed.  Do you know what I mean? So I'm like, well, there's four ways I can go.  I'll try this one. So I'm walking down there about a couple of hundred yards. I'm like, nah, this ain't right. This doesn't look familiar. So then I walk back and I'm pulling my phone out and I'm like, I try this way and I'm like that in. And I'm looking at the maps on my phone.  Do you know what I mean? And all of a sudden a lot of homeless people start coming out of the shadows. You know, there's a big problem with that there.  They were asking for money and stuff but they were talking to me and saying, he doesn't know where he's going. Look at him, look at him.  But they weren't being too bad. They weren't being overly aggressive but they wanted money. I'm like, leave me alone. You know what I mean? But it was a little intimidating but it wasn't too bad. I could handle it. Do you know what I mean?   But you can see it had been like a cop car at one point. It just mounts the pavement. Two guys jump out of the car and this guy goes put the gun to my head and goes, get in the car, get in the car.  And you want to say that, you know, you're all tough and macho with those situations.    I thought I was going to die. And he just kept saying, get in the car. Get in the car. And I'm like, I'm not getting in the car. I thought if I get in that car, I'm a dead man. If they asked for my wallet, I would have given them a wallet or my phone or whatever. But they weren't asking for that. They were trying to tell me to get in the car. Right?  Simple as that. And when I was going through that, all I wanted to do, because I thought I was going to die. So I called my wife.   Do you know what I mean? Honestly. And then as I was doing it, because I just like, you know, you just push a button on your phone and it starts to ring.  I said, oh, by the way, I'm about to...  So then I hung up. Right?  He's going, yeah, he doesn't know where he's going. And right?  Right?  Right?  He kept calling and calling. I'm like, I'm kind of in the middle of something here.   But as I say, the guy with the gun was arguing with the homeless people. They were chatting. They're not the smartest people, let's be honest.  Pushed him as hard as I could. He went, I mean, he was a good push.  He went flying down the street and I just legged it. I bit your knees first thing when you were doing it. I have never ran so fast in my life. I didn't even chase me, to be honest. Who knows? Maybe the gun was empty. Do you think you could have died if you took your Nikar? 100%. Or do you think it was a ransom attempt? I don't know about that, but 100% I would have died. When the woman that picked me up to take me to the set the next day, I said, you know, I was all shook up.  Do you know what I mean? I did.  But when the woman was driving me to set in the morning, I said, look, I told her what happened. She said, oh yeah, because she was a local woman. She said, yeah, we don't drive on the motorways from two o'clock in the morning to six a.m. I said, why is that? She said, because what they do is they come out the townships, like two guys will grab a giant rock and they'll just dump it in the middle of the motorway.  He said, life's cheap round there. He said, that's what they do. So 100%, if I had a gun in that car, I was a dead man. Thanks for coming on today, brother.  Just before working, people get to watch this. Yeah, I mean, listen, it should be available right now. I think the release date is March 21st, which is any day now. Video on demand. So I choose Google Play, Amazon Prime, all that good stuff. That's where you'll find it. So, yeah, check it out. Hope everyone likes it. Michael, for coming on today and telling your story, I thoroughly enjoyed that great man, great career. I know you're busy with the rest of the interviews today, but I wish you all the best for the future. God bless you. Thank you, James. Appreciate it, buddy.