Hey, GovGonGiants family. Today, we are bringing back Kizzy Dominguez of KPC, her company, her organization, everything she stands for. I just really enjoyed talking to her. She is probably one of the most down-to-earth folks that I've met in the government contracting space, keeping it real. And in fact, telling us about some of the things that we may believe to be true that are not truth. In today's episode, we go over how she put together a response for bid for 40 secretaries and why she chose not to win it as opposed to playing to win. We also get into some of the details of the three camps of 8A, what that looks like, how to actually go from making money to making a profit in GovGon, and much, much more. In today's episode, this is the first time we've had back-to-back person on our show. But because, when I finished the first time around, we were about halfway through, I had to bring her back and let you hear her once more. Kizzy Dominguez, thank you. Again, just like yourself, we've been doing this for a long time, not a long time, but in this particular company I'm working with, we've been doing it for three years now. So we've already had relationships. We've been talking to them. We've looked at projects and things that we put in, all of a sudden, they just got the funding for it. So then our top three clients all got funding. Oh, wow. So then they wanted all of their projects that we were negotiating. They wanted everything done. And basically, probably about four weeks ago, we tapped out of our bonding capacity, which was 15 million. And then they came back to us with four more projects. And they go, hey, we just got the funding for this other project. Hey, we just got this funding. Good thing two of them were small. So it's a bit of a man. But then two were big that required bonding. And what we did was, we told the government, listen, obviously you, along with other of your colleagues, received excessive amount of funding and everything just kind of fell at once. And, you know, fortunately, we tapped out of bonding. However, what we could do is, you know, what we have with your project. So we have products with them already that we say, hey, these products are going to wrap up in a couple months. So once that those wrap up, we'll be able to get our bonding. That goes away. We could add this new project on for our bonding. And they knew that because it's their project. So with two different agencies, we had multiple projects going on. And we said, hey, look, we're going to finish this project. And then one of them didn't need to start until after winter. So we said, hey, look, it doesn't start after winter. Why don't we just make everything do at that point next year? Because winter is approaching and a couple back and forth, but we got it worked out. Well, that's good. That's good. It's great. No, no, I mean, it took me using my brain. I had to be creative. I was like, oh, great.  And I'm so great. I can do all the stuff. And you're like, well, I can't really. But again, it was it was a little bit of like anxiety happening a little bit, a little bit. And again, these are good problems, right? These are like, you know, well, yeah, they're all good problems. They're all good problems. So how do you increase your bonding? Do you have to like apply your bonding? You have to do jobs, right? Complete the jobs. Okay. Hey, and then you increase your bonding. So as you take on your work, profitable work.  Just like credit almost, right? So you can't get 50,000 credit unless you use the 10,000 credit. You got to use 10, 20 to get 30, you got to use 30 to get 50. So they don't just say, hey, here's a gazillion dollars in bonding. You have to have used it and then been paid, right? So not just using it, right?  And then get paid. They look at utilization. So they look at, for example, how profitable with those contracts. Oh, yeah. They look at all like bonding or like, they might as well be like a bank. Oh, okay. They look at how profitable. There's one more guy right here.  Yeah. All right. He's one of my project managers. So, so you look at, basically, we've never had to use up all 15 million before. So you don't need 20, you don't use 15. Kind of makes sense, right? They don't give you 20 when you never use 15. So then they're not going to give it to you? Not until after we complete these projects. But what I did do was as a result of that, I went out and found a larger partner that had more bonding. So then you would, with subcontract? Yeah, I'd be a prime sub. Yeah. Yeah, but then I wouldn't have to turn down work. Right. Cause you could leverage their bonding. Right. Right. Wow. I went and did that. And so I use this, I use these particular situations to actually leverage getting a, another company to work with.  I need more bond. That was like my email.  I went out and did all this good business development. The government likes us. They're giving us all this work, but now we're tapped out on bonding. And I don't want to come to, you know, I don't want it. Cause for example, if they come to me this month and give me more projects. Right. Then what do you do? Right. What do you do? They're like, Oh, I've used all of my creativity. I use the dog eight in my homework excuse. I mean, so that's it. So, um, but yeah, it's exciting. We, um, so I have a new partner that's going to give us expanded bonding. And, um, also they have a ton of past performance and so it's going to work out great. So we actually, I just came back in town yesterday. I was up in Rhode Island this past weekend meeting with the team and things. Like that. So I've been there twice since. Wow. Is the work in Rhode Island? The work is all in Rhode Island. It's a, it's all in New England, I'll say. Oh, okay. Well, that's fine. Connecticut, Massachusetts. Okay. That's fun. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's, it's great. I can't wait to start cause I'm probably going to go up there and might just get apartment and stay up there for like a couple of months at a time. That's going to be good. So what kind of is it? What is, what kind of is it? Oh, construction. Yeah, construction. That's my, that's my area.  Yeah, yeah. It seems like a big, like, like a lot of people are into that. Like a lot of people, I don't know too many, personally, I don't know many people on construction, but it seems that a lot of people pivot that way. Yeah, I don't know. Cause I mean, I never really pivoted to it, right? I've always been in it. So I'm not really sure. But I do get a lot of inquiries from people asking me, should they go into construction and I'll say no. It's a hard business. It's a tough business. And unlike what you do and some of my other podcasts, guess what I've grown to learn is in construction, you can lose money. Yeah, you can lose money in all of these areas. Well, not people that do staffing. They have, they, they fail the government. They get paid the FTEs. They get their rates. It's all approved. They don't get, they don't get to like the guy doesn't do a good job. They don't cut a salary. And then you have to pay the difference. Well, yeah, you know, it's intriguing. It's intriguing. But on our situation, if we say, for example, a lot of the production is stopped because of COVID, right? And so now if I told you, hey, Kizzy, I can build this building for a million bucks, but because the production is stopped, the prices have gone up. Now it's going to cost me an extra hundred thousand. I don't get to pass that cost along to you. Right. I don't have that luxury. Right. And that's, you know, it's firm fixed price. So the government doesn't go, well, we're sorry for you. We'll go ahead and absorb your hundred thousand. That's not. And that's a lot of times in our industry where that's why I say if you're not, if you're not from that sector, just be careful. It's just, it's tough. I can tell you, yeah, I mean, again, I had a lot of good, good, good ups, ups, ups, but I've had some really low lows. So I just, just, I just caution people, right? It's, it's, I don't know. Again, I, anytime I tell people my stories and construction, they go, that would never, that never happens in IT. That never happens. So that's what I hear from people. Oh. You get me? When I share my stories, no one in other industries can relate. Oh, okay. So that's why I kind of disagree from stamp with that. Well, it happens every business because every time I tell people my story, they go, that would never, I've never had that happen in IT. I go, well, it's construction. So point in case, in construction, if you're working on a project here in Florida, right, not federal, just commercial product project. If the owner, or if you are sub, the prime decides not to pay you. You cannot stop work. That's not a valid reason to stop work on that project. You have to complete the project. Now, again, people are attracted to construction because there's big numbers. Well, if you have a billion dollar job and someone will pay you, you still got to finish the whole million dollar project. Right. People say that doesn't happen in other industries. I don't know. I've never been in. It does. But do you have to finish a project or can you walk off? I don't think you could necessarily walk off because like here's a good example. So if you have a project. It could be either or. So you could have a project where you're subbing and then let's say the sub doesn't pay you. Well, if you stop the work, then they could just say you abandoned the work and then they wouldn't pay you even more. Like you just, you can't just, it's almost like when you have an issue with a tenant, I mean, you're a tenant and you have an issue with the landlord and you say, I'm just going to stop paying my rent. You can't, you can't do that. What you can do, I mean, not that it's going to work, but what I've, what this is what's happened. So one place they misled a contractor. So she complained to the government client and he intervened. There's sometimes they'll file IG complaints, but it doesn't mean they're going to get their money. And then if they stop working, then. Right. You've abandoned the contract. Right. And then I've seen the opposite to where there was a person. This is where people get burned that do a lot of staffing. So this particular person has some FTEs and the FTE.  But instead, the contractor kept telling the government like, well, that's just how it is. She can't come in. I mean, so then, but here's what gets funny. Here's what gets interesting about that. Then it goes back to what kind of contract, not just if it's firm fixed price or, you know, and then it depends on the terms of the contract because then the agency is pissed off because you're not performing the work. But then the contractor was like, but Sally can't perform the work because Sally is going through life changes. But the contractor should have backfilled Sally put Sally on furlough or family medical leave act, depending on how many employees they had. So it happens. People, you know, I don't know about the people who talk to you, but I know that on the FTE side, people get burned all of the time. And I think they don't want to talk about it because then it makes them it's a reflection of them. I mean, they get burned from a rate perspective. They get here's here's one other last one. So this one person. So this and again, this is what they told me. So I don't really know. All right. They said that they won this work like they got this work army and something like when when it so that so apparently the incumbents, it wasn't services act. So then when they bid on the work supposedly they switched it to services. So then when they brought in when they badged over the incumbents, they had to make all of these financial changes because it supposedly all of a sudden switched to services and then they like it was like a multimillion dollar contract that maybe they made $50,000 on. But you know, when I think of something like that, I'm like, but you knew that going in. So I think I think a lot of people, they have trials and tribulations. They just don't want to admit it because it seems sexy to say like, oh, I have 500 employees and we're just making all this money. And I'm like, I doubt it. I'm sure you're not because I see how these contracts are like one, you know, one last thing. So like we bid on this opportunity for 40 secretary like just three weeks ago 40 40 40 all were filled but one. So I was like, that's easy.  I know we're not going to win because I put in like a fair rate wage. It wasn't lowest cost technically acceptable. But I was like, you know, I'm not going to lowball 40 secretaries in Mississippi. So we didn't win and our price. Let's say our price was 2 million over. But again, if I just wanted to win, I knew what to bid. I was like, if I just wanted to win, this needs to be under 10 million. I said, or I can do what makes sense for the people doing the job and for our profit. And then the company that won, I think their rate was like a little over 10.  Right, because you have to pay the people and everything like, no, I am. So that's why this the that whole staffing, I mean, unless you have like millions upon millions upon millions, it's like you have to accumulate. Right, right. Because the profit margins so thin that it's like, okay, so when I'm going to brag, I got 40 secretaries. Woo. Right, and you're making it right. Yeah, just to make $100,000. If that over five years, I got to deal with four. I got to deal with all that drama for five years in Mississippi. No, no, Mississippi, please. So, but, you know, but I got a nice little email and they just were like, you weren't the best value. So I was like, okay, at least the rest of the contract is pretty good. I mean, our proposal, I felt good. So I'm just, you know, I'm just saying that Eric, sometimes they don't want to tell you the truth. And I appreciate that. I appreciate that, honestly, because I go, I wasn't, to me, it made sense, right? That this was happening to other people, right? Like to me, I'm like, wow, I'm a unicorn. I mean, I'm like, okay, my industry is bad. And I'm like, that's fine. So then I just started saying, all right, fine, I'm going to only speak from my own personal experiences from construction. I'm not going to project that on other people's industries because they're telling me it's not happening. No, I'm there with you. I'm there with you. You know, so I just, I just speak from my own personal experiences. Hey, I know what happens to construction. I know the laws of construction. I've been sued twice. Okay. I've gone down those paths, you know, and I've had to finish out a project without being paid. I'm going to have a right to make a claim on my money. So, yeah, I mean, I'm there with you. We've had our trials and tribulations. So tell me what's going on with you. Oh, I'm like, I don't know what's going on. The big thing is just going into the new fiscal year, reviewing forecasts are 8A expires in two months because I suspended it. So now, what's interesting is though, since you and I last spoke, did you read about them changing the policy on sensitivity training? I did. Okay.  Is it? Yeah, I don't know that. Yeah, I mean, again, let's let's so for all the people who miss episode the first take we discussed, that's kind of how you start your career. Right. I knew to pivot. Okay. I felt it. I literally felt it around 2012, 2013, right? Because I saw so many come like not so many, but there were people really focused in on it. And I thought, how long can, how is that going to last? Like, what's your additional sale? Like if you, okay, you give me a contract, I provide that service and then what, what are you going to buy next? How am I really turning that into a profitable business? So I saw that. I mean, thankfully, we don't, we really, so when it comes to diversity and inclusion, while that's how we got this, our start right now, the only thing we do on the federal side is there's an office of civil rights that we work with. And literally it's policy based training that we create. So it's, it's not any of those topics. What's been interesting is on the commercial side, because my expertise, and this is another revenue stream for people listening. My expertise is umbrellaed under a well established diversity company. So now I have this multinational company that I'm providing a diversity assessment for, for like 8,000 of their employees in America and Canada. Wow. So it's like, so while the government may be where they are on the commercial side, we're up and running and it's, it's, it's, it's been nice. It's been great, but it shows that, you know, you can kind of go the other direction if needed. Right, right, right, right. No, that's pretty cool. I like that that they're like C song. So where they felt taken the fall this other, it's up areas up tremendously. That's great. Yes. Thank you. Yeah. So that's been, that's been fun. Okay, cool. I know we left off before talking about, and again, I had to review. I reviewed the end of our conversation. I said, yeah, I did, I did, we jumped on today. Okay. Yeah. So I reviewed our interview conversation and, you know, it's funny. You're still like five episodes out. So that was interesting, but no, we were talking about actually you're, you growing up by racial and issues with that.  And then we mentioned you being by racial and, and the conversation said, Hey, I'm sure there's a lot of challenges with that, but we never really went into it in particular. And then we kind of, you know, had to rush and get off and we left from there. So yeah, I think, you know, the thing is I lived throughout the Midwest. So I lived in like Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, like we just moved around a lot because my dad worked for manufacturing companies and they usually are located in rural communities. So if, so one would shut down or relocate to Mexico or he would find a better job offer. So we moved around the Midwest quite regularly. So it was, and especially at that time, it was, you know, growing up, it was always, it was just kind of funny to watch people's reactions. But I think I enjoyed it in a sense because I've always had this psychological kind of mindset. But if there were times it was weird, like I was the only person of color in a K through eight school, I mean, it just, it, you know, but the thing is later on in my life when I was job hunting, so right before I earned my PhD, I applied for this company, they flew me out to Denver and I interviewed, I think it was like right around the time of the Super Bowl of that year. And so it was cool and it was this company that offered training and their expertise was around like occupational health and safety. And I thought, wow, this is kind of a really cool fit. However, I kept thinking about that experience in lovely Allendale, Illinois, when I was the only person of a certain hue. And I thought, wow, I don't really want to work for this company because they, they literally, I would have been their first hire of color. Wow. And not that, you know, there's nothing wrong with, with being that person. It was just like, I had done that.  Where either there weren't that many or maybe there were, or I didn't want to have to deal with that. I mean, even, even in my graduate program, I was the only African American. There were people from the Caribbean, people from Asia, China, India, Germany. There were people, you know, Puerto Rico, people from all over all different backgrounds and, and language abilities. But as far as African American, I was again, the only one. So I didn't want to do that. So if anything, it's what really helped spring board this journey because I would have taken that offer and I didn't, I declined that offer.  I don't remember the name, that statement. You have to write, you know, impact or something like that, that in statement. So yeah, something like, like hardship or something that you've experienced, some set of effect. Yes. So that helped. I mean, because these are legit. I mean, it wasn't like, I mean, there are all kinds of interesting things that happened, but I knew I didn't want to go through that again. I didn't want to relive the day in life of eighth grade in Allendale, Illinois.  So there was like this day that they took us to the high school. I don't remember. I think the city was Mount Carmel. I don't really remember. And if this is not, you know, any slight against these cities, I'm just sharing my experience. So we went to the local high school and I played volleyball at that time. So I played volleyball. I did discus and shot put. That was it. That was it.  I think that's a lot. Like that's it. Just three spores and a student like that's it. I know, I know. We didn't have much to do. Like I would hang out at the phone booth a lot and like listen to music out of people's cars because there was like nothing in that town. Like we had our eighth grade dance inside of the fire station. Like they pulled, they, they, yeah, because we didn't have much space in it was really, really small town. So it was very, very small town and lovely Allen Bay, Illinois.  Like this was one of those movies from like the seventies or eighties. And they thought, oh, this brown girl can do it all. They're like, okay, so you can run track and you can play basketball.  I do not run track like I can run. I mean, but I was not like, I'm not, I don't have a sprinter physique or sprinter jeans where like that's not very strong. So I was like, oh my God. So that was really humorous experience. I didn't end up going to high school there. We ended up moving to Evansville, Indiana, but so there, but the thing is it I can look at it with humor and it helps going forward. Like it really helps keep things in perspective. I like that story. No, thanks. I did.   Right.  Oh my God. It's so crazy. I was like, okay, I'm playing basketball. I can't do it. I was like, I can't dribble. That's funny. I like that. I like that. So what do you, I know we talked about your, uh, you're moving into becoming certified for DAU. Yeah. Let's talk about some of that. So we, so an opportunity came up to provide acquisition training. And so we now have multiple clients where we provide web-based acquisition training, not because of COVID. It was already planned. It was already planned because many people have asked like, Oh, how's business cause of COVID? And I'm like, we've always been virtual. That was the other thing about when I set up the business, I would look around and I'm like, why waste all these resources on a fancy office and having everyone in one location. It makes more sense to just be virtual and provide options to clients. So if they want it online, they can have online. They want it in person. What may have you? So it really worked out well. So as we've provided these acquisition courses, someone mentioned like, Oh, I think you can get certified through DAU and I was like, what? I didn't, I had no idea. I just knew of defense acquisition university. I have no idea. So fast forward. There's two firms that you can work with to become certified through DAU and there's a fee is several thousand dollars. I don't know the prices for both firms. I only know the one that I worked with and there are all these steps that you have to take to apply. There's also a site visit. So because of COVID, I think I'm the very first virtual site visit in the history of DAU. So that was really cool. Nice. Yeah. So, um, and then what that means is we are now, we are certified as an organization. We get access to all of their content. Now we have to submit every course. So this is where you have to be very strategic because I'm not going to spend $30,000 sending courses. Explain what he may submit every course.  Okay. So if you go to a bigger firm like management concepts, it's certain courses that management concepts has that certified or maybe there's an independent acquisition trainer out there and they may be the king or queen of like, you know, acquisition one on one of just throwing out things up and they decided that they wanted to have just that class accredited through DAU because that's where the majority of their work comes in. So you have to, you have to submit every course and you have to give them the test for every course. And then of course you have to pay the vendor. So it can be anywhere from hundreds of thousands per course. And go under DAU. There's a lot of courses. There's a lot of courses. There's a lot of courses. Okay. So now you said you have to be strategic. So what's your plan? Like what does that look like for you? We're going to submit one. We're going to start with one and go from there. I would prefer if a client says, Hey, do you offer this course and then because I think we can get it passed in a couple of weeks. Okay. This was the big hurdle. The big hurdle was you have to provide all this information, resumes and bios and policies and procedures. And then even in the tour, like I had to show her, you know, the office and how things are set up on my computer. I had to show her around the building, the outside of the building. I mean, yeah, it was, it was. I want to make sure you're legit. Right. So, um, so that's where we are. So we're going to send courses in soon and kind of go from there. Okay. Nice. Now you said you have clients that we're asking for this. Yeah. We had multiple multiple clients said, do you have certain, do you offer certified courses? And I was like, Oh, what, you know, tell us more to you know, it's interesting that, um, when I look at entrepreneurs and business people, they say that we're risky, right? Um, that we take chances. And I like to say that we're really not, we're more strategic because you only did this because people are asking for it. Right. You didn't go out and said, I'm going to go get DAU certified and then hope someone wants to buy this. Right. Um, and I, and I kind of, to me, I liken that to people getting certified with the eight a program as oftentimes. Right. People go, I'm going to get a certified and people are going to give me contracts. I mean, it, it would be great.  I got a bunch of contracts because I'm a day or a woman owned or service disabled vet or because I'm here. Woo.  It's, it's really, you know, people would always say out if they still say this, but they would often say like, it's a hunting license.  It really is a great analogy. Like just because you have your license to hunt deer doesn't mean all of a sudden you're going to wake up and there's like a ton of deer outside your house. Right.  It doesn't work like that.  You got to hustle and you got to take care of your clients. You have to resolve their pain points. You really have to make their life, their lives easier because often they start to, they'll start to resent eight days, especially eight days. They get so just resentful and then they want to go Alaska native. Again, nothing wrong with going Alaska native. Hey, if I was in the government shoes, why not go Alaska native? You can direct award them millions upon millions of dollars and they keep spinning off eight days. Why wouldn't I go that route? So yeah. So it means as an eight A you have to, you have to be even better. You can't be mediocre. That's interesting. Can you expand on that? I mean, I see where you're going, but I think it might have went over some people's heads. Yeah. So like you said, you have to be even better. Meaning. And again, maybe my view is skewed. The thing is, I've like, especially of recent, I've attended several like Govcon kind of virtual events and also from just past experience, like even before COVID during COVID as life continues. And these are kind of the camps that I see and what I mean by being better. So you have the group of people where it's like, okay, I'm going to get an A day and make a lot of money. Okay, that's cool. You can resell on Amazon, make a lot of money. Okay. So it's just like, we want to make a lot of money. Okay. So their motto is just get a lot of money. Okay. Then you have people that are like, okay, maybe for whatever reason, they're like, okay, I want to do it. I think this is going to be a great investment. Maybe they have no clue about what it means to lead or own a business or take care of clients. Like they just know like they're supposed to get this A day or they were told to get this A day and they're kind of fumbling because regardless, they just have a lot to learn as a business owner. And then I think the third camp are those that know like they have experience. They understand the value of the A they have all of the necessarily necessary pillars to be a success and they're off to the races. So then in addition to these kind of three camps, you have Alaskan natives, you have big businesses, you have everything in between. So when a government procures work that's A day and they get sub par services or it could be, it could just be a stereotype bias, which is what I think. And here's what I mean. So I once met with this amazing small business rep and this particular person said to me, they said, Kizzy, if we gave you this kind of work that's worth millions of dollars and let's say he's like, we gave it to you because let's say we had made it A day. This is all hypothetical. He said the way this agency would view it is let's say you made an error. Okay. He's like, what would happen is all the people involved in giving you this work will be called into the boss's office and it would be almost like it's done. Like it would be horrible. However, if a big company did the same thing, it would be all right. Wouldn't matter because they're a big company. And I was like, wow, he's right.  Whatever. Again, whatever could even be service disabled. It's like, yeah, you don't really know what you're doing. So therefore, that's why you have to be even better because everybody makes mistakes. There's no perfect company out there. So you have to be ready to deal with it. So kind of just being okay.  That's a very... I totally agree. And I'm happy that you said that. Someone that I work with used to work for a company called Gil Bain, a very large construction company, probably number one in like the whole East Coast of the United States. And he was... he ran like the diversity side of the business, right? Where he was recruiting small businesses and minority businesses and things like that. And he said exactly the same thing. They had a bias that when a small guy would make a mistake, they would say, this is why we don't need these programs. We need to shut it down. Why do they make it set aside 10% blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so he said, really? And then he would go in and because he did the financials and all of that. He said, okay, let's look at this contract that you gave this company a mistake and what it cost us that they made a mistake and no one said anything, right? So yeah, we gave a 10% over here, right? So yeah, one guy out of the 10% made a mistake which cost us $80,000. This big company made a mistake which cost us $2 million and no one made a peep about it because they're a $40 million company that they're friends of the boss, but no one's actually looking at the numbers. That's the point that you made. And I've heard that as well. Emily Harmon talked about that on the podcast when she came on and she said that, yeah, a lot of people already have these preconceived notions about small business programs before you even approach them. And that's why one of the things that I teach kids, which I tell my people, please don't mention that stuff. Lead with your capabilities, which you can offer them, lead with problem solving. And then at the very end, by the way, I happen to be whatever you want to say. That's so true. It is because it's there's so many firms out there. Even if your competition isn't another 8-A firm, there's a lot of competition. There's a lot of competition. Right, right, right. Well, no, that's good. I like that. So now you're doing the DAU. What else next in horizon for you? Doing the DAU. We got an opportunity with an organization to provide recruiting for them. So I can't say too much other than it's a really cool opportunity. So we've been looking for candidates for various roles for them. So that's been nice. Just really go ahead. And how do people find you? How does that come to you? So during COVID, I met with a person who works for this company in one of the government small business matchmaker events. Okay, okay. And there's something that we do. Every week, we send an email to like a thousand government people. So she's on the email list. So this person wrote and was like, okay, your email's working. I want to talk. I was like, okay, I guess she wants, I don't know what she wants to talk about. Our emails are very passive. They're not like, here's KP soon. We're so great. We know we're great, but nobody cares. This is not why people buy.  Let me just buy something. You're like, no, I need something. I need a little strap for my yoga mat. That's what I just purchased. Is that what you just purchased? Yeah, I did. I can't waste purple. It's coming soon. Coming soon. But yeah, so she reached out and we went from there. So it pays off to keep in contact and to be open-minded. Because some people, again, and again, you have to know your, you have to know and be comfortable with what you want. The direction that I'm going may be different than where you're going, but you just have to be comfortable with that. I'm the type of person where I look at what are these different opportunities out there that we can monetize. And if it's providing applicants to a company, why not? Why not? I never knew that was an option. I didn't know that they even did things like this, but they do and they contacted us. So let's go. What do you, when you talk about, you look at, because again, this is a question people often ask is, well, Eric, in fact, I received an email today just like this. He says, I'm deciding between this market and this market. How do you answer that question between what markets should decide upon? I say you do both. There's no need to decide.  And here's why I say that. Just take a Deloitte or Booz Allen or whoever, Lockheed Martin, whoever you want it to be. And you can look, you can look online, you can Google, you can go wherever. Do they only provide one thing? To the federal government? No, they don't. There may be something they're known for. Even Boeing, I doubt all they provide are planes. I'm pretty sure they have several staffing contracts. You know, I know at one point, Apple, they were staffing in Broward County. Yeah. Long time ago, I dated a guy in Broward who was on this contract, like inside, I don't know if it was the Broward School District, and he like technically worked for Apple. It was the crazy, I was like, what? Never heard of that. Yeah. So the point is, I look at it from that perspective is, if these big companies are diverse, why shouldn't I be diverse? As long as it makes sense. You know, again, it has to make sense for you. If you feel uncomfortable, pursuing staffing contracts, then don't do it. If you feel uncomfortable providing ammunition, then don't do it. But if you feel comfortable filling, you know, computer technology opportunities, then why couldn't you? But what if someone's just starting out? You don't think that that would maybe stretch them too thin? I don't think it'll stretch them too thin. I think that's a mindset issue.  I come across, hey, I'm about to retire. And this is what I do here. And this is what I want to do for the government. And it could be retire anywhere. It could be military retire, whatever. Or it could be this is a person who they're passionate about training or something. And they want to do that for the government. And I think a lot of those that come to me are in training kind of mindset. So just for awareness for the audience. I never get, hey, I want to provide construction to the government. I really don't run across that too often. There have been some interesting ones I've come across. But typically my response is, okay, that's great. That's awesome that you are so passionate about leadership training or you're passionate about providing microphones to the federal government. So are you going to be able to make money doing this? This is number one. Are you going to be able to pay your bills and live the life you need to live? And number three, are you ready to put in all the time and energy needed? Because take training. So when it comes to training, everybody offers training. Everybody offers training. So let's dissect training. What are agency spending training on? Training dollars on. Well, a ton of topics. So let's drill it down. In-person training. Not really doing that right now. Web-based training. Okay, so that's a one-off.  Where's your recurring revenue? They pay for contractors to run if they have a school or an academy or an institute. But if you're just starting out, that may not work for you. Right. Because you don't have the past performance or the capability to do that. Okay. So it's like, how are you going to make a living training? What's going to provide that ongoing revenue? Unless you're prepared. I don't know. I mean, I don't really know. I don't know the answer to that. No, I don't know. I think that from the people that I've heard of that do training, they, so they were looking at, like you said, those quick hits that the in-person training or the web-based training, but like the one-on-one where, you know, you get, I don't know, four or five training contracts. And then, you know, whatever that pays out. I don't know what that number is, but again, and you're right. I mean, I always tell people, are you trying to build a business or are you just trying to make money? Right. Because there's a difference. There's a difference. So those four contracts make sense if you're making money, but it doesn't necessarily give you a business. And also when it comes to making money, isn't enough to sustain your life? Oh, well, I mean, yeah. No, not four contracts. I mean, it's not. And I would argue that it's not just a training. It's in a lot of these areas. You know, like I came across some where it's like, okay, their specialty is, maybe their background is acquisition. And then their specialty is helping contractors with making sure, I guess, they're compliant. Plus, I think this firm may have government contracts. So I think to myself, okay, why would a government contractor really want your services? I mean, in many ways, they really don't need them. I mean, unless you're working on certain kind of contracts, the governments are going to ask you for anything. They don't. I mean, maybe they've asked you because I don't know. I don't get knocks on the door or emails where they're like, hey, Kizzy, have you done this? I mean, I don't even know what that would be. So, you know, so it's like, my first question is, you know, how are you going to be profitable? Because then there's also that, oh, well, I'm just going to, I'm going to do staffing or I have these three FTEs. Okay, that's awesome. So are you making money? And then they can't answer me. And I'm like, you know, I understand that there are decisions you may make because it's for the long term and maybe it's a strategic move. But we're not charities. There has to be revenue that you make from your business or even if it's a side hustle. Okay, now, okay, fair enough. But again, we're talking about, and this is a very good topic, okay? Because a lot of people ask me, well, Eric, I listen to your podcast guests and it's great that they're doing all these big things, right? So it's easy for you, Kizzy, to say that, but hey, I'm a one person, right? So what advice are you giving to me as a newly, quite racial woman who wants us to get started in government contracting? Okay, that's not really telling me how to do it. You're giving me a lot of warning shots, but tell me how do I do this? That's very fair. So number one, you have to look at how much money do you need to be able to eat, sleep, and be... Okay, I need $50,000 a year. $50,000 a year. Okay, so you need $50,000 a year. Number two, how can... What are the ways in which you can make that $50,000? What are the skills that you bring to the table? So, you know, I'm just going to use training because I know training. So let's say you have background creating training. Maybe you have trained. You've done webinars, Zoom. You know, you could figure it out. So one way is you contact companies. Now, this is where you're going to have to do work because nobody said this was easy. So you've got to do some work. But the lowest hanging fruit is you contact companies or other solo peneurs that may need somebody like you and you have to provide a solution. You have to provide that aspirin. So if you contacted a company like mine and you said, hey, you know, do you have a need for anyone to create curriculum or do you by chance have a need for a facilitator? You know, I would love... Or even if you don't even say that and you just say, hey, you know, I would really love to learn more about you. I'm just starting out in the government space. Can I talk to you? So then that way, you're putting it on the person you're contacting. So then now we're starting out where I'm like, oh, I want to know about me. And our most important person in our life is ourselves. And so then it's like, oh, I feel good. And then I'm going to talk to you.  She can provide curriculum. Okay, maybe I can use Barbara for something. Because then that way you can at least start building past performance and get a little bit of money working under a more established company. And you don't just reach out to one or two or 50. It's like 30 a day. You have to hit the pavement. You do because you think about it. You hit 30 a day. Let's say 10 of them say yes. How much work is that? You're probably almost closer to 50,000. That's without you even bidding on anything. Because what I find is people jump that. They go straight to, well, I want to contract. Okay. So chances are if an agency puts out there, well, we want communication training for three days in Tennessee. They probably know who they want. Or they've been using Billy for bazillion years. And they know Billy's going to bid on it. So it just is going to all it's going to do is make you mad.   The president has elected through the electoral college. Period. It's how it is. So you either learn to play that game. Or you just are upset. That's what you do. So the same thing with government contracting. So the easy route is you reach out to others who may need you. And maybe you already know. Like if you're an acquisition, you know, management concepts, you know this, you know this, there may be others. I've mentioned we do acquisition. You can contact us because we have acquisition trainers. So that's one route that you take another route. You know, again, this, this, this isn't going to lead to money immediately, but you got to hit the pavement and start reaching out to the agencies. So that one, that's a lot to unpack. And there's different routes to figure out which agency you do or do not contact. I heavily suggest LinkedIn, but I'll, I'll circle, I'll circle back to that one. I think another item, and this is something I always suggest to people, especially those. If you have, I think, I think you only need a bachelor's degree. Another way to potentially bring in, at least help you get closer to your 50,000. As you're building things is you can teach. You can teach online. You can teach at your local college or institute. They're always looking for someone. The more unusual the name, the more that they really need someone. I mean, I'm being serious because like, okay, we have Miami Dade Community College. Yeah, they're going to need instructors because it's a massive community college, but maybe you live in a small city or perhaps you live in a location where the supply and demand just really isn't there. Then you need to go online and search. Are there places where you can teach or work online for a school as a tutor? You can even get paid to serve as a speaking partner for people who want to learn English. Because again, it's like, it's not to derail you from your financial goals and your entrepreneurial, you know, aspirations. It's to help you at least bring in some money. So you're like, okay, I may not have that contract yet, but I'm making a little money over here doing this. I've reached out to these companies over here. And then you're also building past performance. So you can say, oh, I provide curriculum development. I instruct. I help with translation. Oh my gosh. Look, you're building this capability while you're building and creating relationship with government agencies. So then it helps you get ready because I think too many people, even bigger companies that I've come across, they're all caught on that, that shiny. And I think you had an email message that came out the other day about that, about being attracted to that shiny. Like, it's like, oh, I want that 108 million dollar contract. Okay. Yeah. Who doesn't, you know, so there's other ways to obtain your goals. It just takes a lot of sweat equity is literally contacting 30 firms a day, leveraging LinkedIn, being known on LinkedIn, being known and active in whatever Facebook groups are connected to your field. It's looking at other ways to diversify and get money to coming in. You know, you have to do what makes sense for me. I taught online. That's what I did. I mean, I think at one point I was teaching for like five different schools. It was crazy. It was crazy in like 2010, 2011. I think it was like right before I got the eight a was insane, but it helped because then I, because here's the other thing if you think about, you don't get paid every two weeks from the federal government, you may work on a project and not get paid for 30 days, 60 days, two years. I'm on a contract right now where I don't think we're going to get paid again until 2021. And it's not a reflection of us or the work. It's because it's a deliverable based contract. So you may win that contract, but what if it's deliverable based? How are you going to pay your bills? It could be a million dollar contract and you're the only person doing the work. So yeah, you have to have those other revenue streams. So at least you don't come across in what is the worst thing you could ever do. And that is desperate. Nobody wants to be around desperate. No, I think that was, that was, that was great. Thanks. That was the other written downs. No. Don't be desperate. You know, it's, there's so much business out there. It really is.  I mean, I didn't even know that was a thing. Right. I hadn't, I mean, I'm being serious. I had no idea. I mean, it's, it's crazy. And people have reached out. Now back many years ago, they would contact me often because they wanted an IO psychologist. I don't really get that anymore, but that was a thing. You know, people really needed that background or FTE.  So you have to figure out how do I monetize this? No, no, I have another podcast guest of mine who today fights the wildfires and he started off as a laborer. And he was, he said when he started his company to get past performance, he would go out and do very similar what you're saying, but he would do it in the commercial sector, working at people's houses, helping them with prevention and labor type jobs to build up past performance. And that's what it takes. And it's interesting. He said, because we actually, he, he's, he's a, he's a he's a fan of ours in the show and the content we provide. So it's like I do Mondays on YouTube live. So he's on there. And I asked him, I said, Mark, can you tell people your story? And he's, well, I wouldn't encourage you to want to take that path. But, you know, I kind of disagree now and looking and listening to you and also myself, you have to take whatever path that you're afforded or whatever one that you create for yourself. You can't really dictate. You want $20 million in contracts is my beginning starting out the gate, but it's not realistic. And it's not going to happen. So it's not going to happen. You have to take whatever path that comes before you. You do. You have to take whatever path and then on top of it, even if you buy a business or maybe you buy a business, maybe you buy two businesses, you then still have to run those businesses and make sure that hopefully they're profitable. So I think that's also the misnomer because I've come across those where they'll buy a business to expand. Like I know somebody that I think they bought a construction business, but it makes sense when I, you know, when I look back at this person's journey in their portfolio was like, okay, that made perfect sense. I know a mentor protege. They bought a business together, made perfect sense because of the kind of work they're looking to go after with their joint ventures. It makes sense, but you have to remember it's, you know, you got to really look at it because whether it's a thousand dollars, one million, 20 million, it takes various skillset and you don't want to run it to the ground because that happens too with any kind of business. You know, it's like so few businesses are in business after like eight years. They just not, they're not there. Right, right, right. What is something that you need help with or that we can help you with? My biggest thing that I need help with is I have a position on Twitter. It may be on LinkedIn is definitely on both Twitter accounts, the Kizzy KPC and on the KPC account is I need. So I have a social media manager as the actual position, but I really, I realize I need a person who has some type of marketing background. So whether it's, they have a degree or they worked in marketing and it's not necessarily for the government. That's not what this is for. So I need someone who's kind of like a, whether it have to be a guru, but you have to have an interest in marketing or a formal background degree. That would be really cool because I think I'm closer to framing like at least phase one of my kind of social media marketing journey. I see you're always active on LinkedIn. I mean, yeah, thank you. I'm active on LinkedIn. I'm trying out some new things on LinkedIn. I bought a new LinkedIn course and I'm doing it, but I have so much more and I got to tighten up LinkedIn. I got, I got to revamp LinkedIn. I learned on Teachable. They had some really cool courses. It was like $15. Like Gary V was one of the. I remember that. I remember that. That was really good. I did. I attended a lot of them. I have to re-listen to so many of them because I didn't make it to that. I'm talking about that for $15. I remember that. I use Teachable platform. Oh, we'll see. Then it was awesome. They have the recordings. I mean, it's amazing. Amazing. So I have to go back through that because there's so many tips that I was just like, I didn't even know. No, thank you. That's, that's, that's really neat. Yeah. I've been using Teachable for now for two years. Well, they were, it was amazing. It was just the caliber of the presenters, the type of information is really helpful. Okay. Okay. All right. No, no, that's, that's really neat. So social media manager with an interest in marketing, but not specifically for the government. No. Yeah. This won't. It probably won't have anything to do with the government. Not really. So it's for other things. I'm looking to try out and diversify. And, um, all of that. So that's, that's the, the big thing now. Okay. Okay. That's the big thing. And then I got a, I would love people to join. I have to pull it up. I joined community. So, so they don't have to text my home phone number. Oh yeah. Yeah. I got. Oh, tell me about it because I was looking at getting community. So I thought about it. So I have to, I'll tell you about it. So you should people please reach out. It's<PHONE_NUMBER><PHONE_NUMBER>. So I had been following community for, for a very long time and I kept like signing up for the waitlist, signing up for the waitlist. And I was like, goodness, when are they launching? So I got an email that said, you have been moved up on the waitlist. So, um, contact us.  They have, I think a lower package too. So I said I wanted just to go big. So, I mean, it's, I think it gives you a thousand, um, contacts and it's unlimited text and I'm still playing around with it, but please, please follow me. Y'all contact<PHONE_NUMBER>. Please, please, please. And so I'm excited. It's in my LinkedIn profile. Um, so that's kind of the gist of it. It's based on the number of contacts, not the number of messages you send. And I have to, like I said, learn all the ins and outs, but apparently there's lots of things that you can do. Um, and funnel and I'm looking forward to using it. No, that's cool. I really think I could use that. I think it's, it's, it's valuable for everyone. It was, there was a time, I'm not sure if people are really into this as much as they once were, but there was a time that during instructor led courses, people would say, like, oh, send a text to this number or like, you know, get your phone so you can participate in this poll. And there was a lot of that. And so you would send a text. I mean, you would text them. And then it was just like propaganda. It wasn't, it was like, well, it was just like, you know, sales material or it was like, it was very transactional. It was like, you gave me your text number, your phone number. So therefore I'm going to give you this thing because I want you to buy more of my stuff. And this was common, like government, non-government.  And I really like community because the whole goal is to create a community, not just create this transactional relationship where I hope you buy some stuff from me. And that's not why I did this. I did this because I was like, oh my gosh, this is a really cool feature. And I see, I experienced how it worked with Gary V. And I think Oprah's on it through Weight Watchers. I'm not sure which platform they use. I'm making an assumption, but Weight Watchers has something very similar. And I really like it. I know Gary V. does promote community. Yeah, I love it. I'm going to have to get community. To me, it's easier to send someone a text message than all this other stuff. Because I received so much, like you said, you talked about the shiny object in my email. I used to craft all these emails all the time. And it's a lot of work. But I still, like personally, I write down quotes and messages. And like, for example, hold on, let me see. Oh, someone I was talking to recently told me they bought GovWin, right? And I wrote down GovWin doesn't help you win contracts. I mean, I just, it's just some food for thought because people do stuff without even thinking or even knowing why. There's no intention behind it. Just like, this is what the next thing to do is I did it. Right. It is. It's true. It's like a certification. Like, oh, well, I should just get fill in the blank, you know, whether it's 8A or small business.  Like, I have GovWin and I use it in a certain way. But then I also, I just bought GovTribe. And the reason I did that is because there are certain things and certain features that I like about them. There's some other thing I just bought that I didn't even know existed. And it's new and I'm like, but the reason I bought it is because they had information that the other two didn't have. And for me, it's the investment in business development. It's not that I'm buying it because people told me to buy it. Right. I have these and I've been renewing GovWin because GovWin has helped me significantly with decisions on what I'm going to bid on, pricing and getting contact information. Hands down. Hands down. It's helped me. But it's about, again, what makes sense for you. If, if, why spend all that money, thousands of dollars if you're not going to use it. Fair enough. I hope that, I hope that GovCon giants would be one of those things that people just buy when they come into the GovCon project space. Like, let's just buy it. We know we have to have it. It's going to help us. I don't, I don't see why not. I mean, because it's needed. Like there's, you know, there's no, there's really no one stop shop. And even, you know, if there were a one stop shop, everybody's journey is so different, but there really isn't a place. I mean, even your SBA, every SBA is very different.  There's a ton of really cool training. That didn't exist when I joined the A&A program. Excuse me, but it's really cool. So now I'm going to have to like download everything because I'm going to lose that in two months. Where if you're not in A&A, I mean, I know they have webinars. But you don't have access to that training. Right. Right. And sometimes the webinars don't meet your needs. Sometimes the webinars may be on social media marketing and you're like, I really need help on how do I get a contract? You know? Yeah, fair, fair. Casey, leave us with some parting words so we can close out today. Party words, everything is possible. Hands down. If you want to succeed, you're going to succeed. If you want to fail, you're going to fail.  I'm not going to figure it out. Then you're not going to figure it out. If you have the mentality of like by any means necessary, you're going to hustle, you're going to grind, you're not playing, then everything is possible. It is. There's enough work for everyone. There's so much work in the federal government. There's a place for you. Even with it being so competitive? Yes. Okay. No, you said it, not me. I love the federal government. Yes. I wouldn't change a thing. I'm not going to play any other sandbox. Yeah. I like diversification. I diversify. But it's, it's, there's tons of work. There's so much work out there.  I don't know if you had a podcast on unison or not. But like, Yeah. Actually, we have a 16 year old government contractor does unison. Yeah. Like that, that right there, I mean, you could just make a whole living off of hustling the random things they want on unison. He does about 10,000 a month. He's got two employees that are both, they're all high school students. That makes sense because there's, but again, it's not this shiny. It's not the thing that. No, it's not. It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not anything like you said shiny or fancy. It's, it's, it's, he sells like canned meat or something or to the prisons and that's it. Yeah. Yeah. They have everything on their books. Immunition, sometimes training. They have computers, microphones. One of my interns. Cameras. Huh? One of my interns sells the, the clay disc that you shoot with. Yes. He sells that. Yeah.  Why couldn't you do that? Right.  This is the, the gateway to entries. Easy. It's way easier to sell a microphone than to hustle communications training. Sure. Good point. Casey, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. I know they're going to love this. They're going to appreciate you. Hey, give us your phone number again. One more time. Okay. Let me pull it up here.<PHONE_NUMBER>. Yes. Yes. Yeah.<PHONE_NUMBER>. Send a text. I got you. Connect me on LinkedIn. I appreciate it. Connect with me on LinkedIn. It's Kizzy M. Dominguez. We're, I'm connected with Eric so you can find me. Yeah. And she, and she likes most of my stuff. So you just, Yeah.  She's the one with the light bulbs in her name. Yes. Yeah. You got the light bulbs. Kizzy light bulb, something light bulb. Yes. Yes. Yes. To stand out. You know, it's about, you got to stand out. No, that makes a lot of sense to me. That makes a lot of sense. No, thank you. Listen, a lot of fun. You have definitely been my longest guest so far. That we've talked. So you get an award for that.  Oh wow. I'll take that. I love awards. No. I know, right? I, I perceive my future having GovCon awards. I would, I would say GovCon awards conference. I say you do all of it. Yeah. No, I have conferences. Definitely awards. Definitely. Yeah. Why not? Let's just do it all.