The next item of business is a debate on motion 7558, in the name of Mary Gougeon, on carbon neutral islands project, first steps towards decarbonisation. I would invite those members who wish to speak in the debate to please press their request to speak buttons and I call on Mary Gougeon, cabinet secretary, to speak to and to move the motion around 12 minutes please. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I'm absolutely delighted to be here today to open the debate on the first steps towards decarbonisation for the island communities that form part of our carbon neutral islands project. Today, I'll be outlining the progress that has been made by this really exciting project, which has the potential to be hugely transformational for our island communities. I also just want to start initially by thanking Liam Kerr, Rhoda Grant and Liam McArthur for their amendments today, because the vast majority of what is in there, I agree with, and I'm happy to accept the Labour and Liberal Democrat amendments. I also just want to say as well that there is a lot within the Conservative amendment to the motion today that I do actually agree with, but I think it does go against the spirit of what we're actually trying to achieve with carbon neutral islands project, and that is that communities are at the heart of it, they're decision makers, and we want them to be the ones who really drive this project forward. Yes, I will. Jamie Greene. I know it's very early on in the debate and I appreciate that, but which bit of the amendment to the motion does the minister disagree with? I mean, we've tried to make it respectfully factual, but point out that yes, communities do drive this stuff, but it does need government support and resource, and that's all we're saying. Come on, Secretary. Which, of course it does, but I think it goes more broadly than that as well, and I hope, as I'll make clear throughout my contribution to the debate today, exactly what we're looking to achieve. But again, I didn't feel like the amendment contributed that, which is why I won't be supporting it today, though there is again a lot within that that I would have been happy to support. Now, I just want to start today by reiterating the Scottish Government's commitment to this innovative project, which places islands at the forefront of our response to the global climate emergency. This ambition is very much in line with Scotland's national islands plan, which includes objectives that support environmental wellbeing and biosecurity, and contribute to climate change mitigation and adaptation, while also promoting clean, affordable and secure energy. The carbon neutral islands project provides the opportunity to support communities in several areas and not just decarbonisation. We recognise that many of the issues that our island communities face are interlinked, and this is very much a key consideration of the project. Before I go on to discuss the progress that we've made over the past year, I would really just like to take a moment to remind the chamber of some important context. Climate change and nature loss are amongst the greatest threats facing our planet, and our island communities are particularly vulnerable to climate change in predicted sea level rises. It's expected that there will be increased instances of flooding and coastal erosion, impacts on water supply, food production, health, tourism and habitat depletion. Most island economies are highly dependent on outside sources for food, fuel and even employment, and all of that is being exacerbated by the current cost crisis, where island communities are among those hit the hardest due to their higher levels of fuel poverty and the additional cost of goods. That's why I recently launched the £1.4 million island cost crisis emergency fund, which is being delivered with our island authority partners. This funding is being utilised in a variety of ways, including providing free breakfasts for around 1,400 pupils in Shetland and supporting third sector organisations in Orkney with the impact of higher electricity costs. I know that everyone will be aware that Scotland has of course declared a climate emergency, and we're stepping up our climate action with legally binding targets to reach net zero by 2045. Islands climate change legislation also ensures that we prepare and adapt to the impacts that are already locked in, including rising sea levels and more extreme weather. As part of the international community, it's crucial that we take every opportunity to raise global climate action and ambition. We can do that while continuing to promote and support the huge energy potential and natural capital of our islands, which will help us to reach our net zero and climate resilience ambitions. On 17 May last year, I shared with Parliament that the islands included in the Carbon Neutral Islands project are Yell, Hoi, Barra, Rase, Isla and Great Cumbria. Those islands allow for a varied mix of geographies, populations and socio-economic make-up and include one island per local authority. I'm delighted to share that over the last eight months we've laid the groundwork for each island to become carbon neutral by 2040, which remains a really ambitious target. That work has been detailed in a progress report that has been published today and which provides an update on all the key elements of the Carbon Neutral Islands project. I would now like to take a little bit of time to talk through some of that work with the chamber today. We committed £800,000 to support initial development in partnership with Community Energy Scotland, who have extensive experience working with island communities and in delivering work-based on effective community engagement. They have been working on the important first step of supporting all six islands to carry out in-depth carbon audits. They will also be supporting communities in developing community climate change action plans, which will be published this year, and that work will culminate in the development of investment strategies to support delivery of the action plans. Those first steps are vital to ensuring a co-ordinated approach to decarbonisation that has island communities at its heart, so it's important to take a moment to provide some more detail on each of those strands of work. The work that Community Energy Scotland is carrying out on the six islands is embedded within island communities. Each island has a local steering group, which employs a community development officer directly within local anchor organisations, all of which are playing a key part in the implementation of the carbon neutral islands project. It's also great to see that some of the community development officers are young islanders who have taken the opportunity to return home to work on this project. That demonstrates from the start that the project will do more than just cut emissions and it can also be a vehicle for the growth of our island communities. I'm delighted to have had a chance to meet some of the community development officers just prior to the debate this afternoon and to have them join us in the gallery here today. They've been in Edinburgh completing important training that will support their conversations about climate change within their communities and my island officials look forward to working closely with them throughout the implementation of the carbon neutral islands project. Carbon audits, as I've mentioned, are also in full swing on each of the six islands. The audits are as comprehensive as possible. They don't just focus on energy production and consumption but focus on all aspects of life that lead to greenhouse gas emissions. We know that on some islands audits have already taken place. We've been incredibly careful to try and avoid energy application while ensuring that there is that alignment and co-ordination with other efforts too. In doing so, my island officials and our partners have developed a really strong network of island net zero related stakeholders who are fully aware of the project and who are really keen to be part of it. The carbon audits will also not just be limited to land but will include an audit of each island's blue carbon habitats such as Salt Marsh and Seagrass. Drawing in expertise from the Scottish Blue Carbon Forum, this will help us to understand the relative contribution of these important habitats for climate change mitigation and adaptation. This is not just a technical exercise that specialists can appreciate. The audits are a starting point for community discussion because we know islands can only pay their rate in net zero if they have reliable data on what their climate change trajectory will look like. Consequently, the audits will be translated into plain language, be user-friendly and have accompanying tools so that they can be replicated over the years in the most cost-effective way. I was struggling to find out what budget is being provided for this project annually or the project over its lifetime. As I have outlined in my opening comments, £800,000 has been committed this current financial year. In the budget that I appeared in front of the rain committee last week and that we have published, there is £3 million over the coming financial year committed to the project and to help us to deliver on that. It is crucial that island communities set the net zero trajectory that they feel most comfortable with. I am confident that the structure that I have outlined with the islands and their people at the heart of the process will ensure that the project will be driven by the communities involved. It is in that spirit that I look forward to receiving the sixth community climate change action plans later this year, but I am also keen to see if there are similar actions that several islands wish to take forward, whether that is in areas of housing, energy efficiency, transport or renewable energy. We really need to sit down with the island communities and fully digest and understand their plans to identify the best way to support them going forward. It is only then, once we understand the island communities priorities, that we will develop investment strategies to support the aims of those action plans. This will involve different funding mechanisms and we need to begin by pulling together already existing public funding. The Scottish Government has a range of different net zero funding pots that can be accessed and there may be other initiatives that can work together to achieve the aims of our communities. I am delighted to say that this approach is already taking place within the carbon neutral islands project, where £60,000 has been provided by the net zero portfolio to bring an adaptation element to community energy Scotland's work with communities. This will bring together adaptation and net zero planning in that joined up way, ensuring that mitigation efforts are climate resilient, while also understanding climate trends and projections for each island. However, we know that public money is not going to be enough to get us to net zero. That is why we also have to look at public-private partnerships and private investment where that is appropriate. However, all of this work will be underpinned by three key drivers. The first is alignment, which I have already touched on. The project aims to align with existing efforts and avoid any duplication. This is important and especially for those communities who are often juggling multiple projects with little capacity. The second, fairness, is also critical. We need to ensure that we bring communities with us on the journey to net zero and that they can take advantage of the opportunities that the transition presents. Supporting island communities through the already mentioned steering groups, local anchor organisations and community development officers is a step in the right direction to ensure this element of fairness. Lastly, the ability to replicate and take this learning to other Scottish islands is needed to ensure that as many other island communities can benefit from shared learning and good practice to overcome barriers. This was actively considered in the design of the project, where the mix of islands included cover a range of distinct characteristics that will apply to many other areas. The network of community development officers delivering across the six islands has kick-started that sharing of experiences across but also beyond those six islands. The project also directly acknowledges the role of young people. It has developed a school component to ensure that young islanders can contribute to the carbon neutrality journey of Scotland's islands. Our delivery partner for this strand of work, Youth Scotland, is carrying out its activities in close alignment with the Young Islanders Network, which is another important programme for government commitment with islands policy. This builds on the success and legacy of the climate change message in a bottle project, which was previously supported by Scottish Government. I mentioned at the start that it is crucial that we take every opportunity to engage with the international community to raise ambitions. This is something that Scotland is already doing, and likewise, the carbon neutral islands project has developed an international strategy that reflects the leading role of islands in decarbonisation. The project has begun sharing Scottish island-based renewable energy technologies and expertise with island partners in Europe, as well as beyond. In closing, I am genuinely excited by the first steps that are taken towards decarbonisation on the six islands. Scotland is fully committed to its legally binding climate change targets, and the carbon neutral islands project is a really exciting opportunity and demonstrates that we are putting our island communities at the heart of our climate action to achieve those ambitious targets. That momentum will only continue to grow, and I really look forward to the publication of the community climate change action plans later in the year. I know that during the debate today, we will touch on many of the climate change initiatives relating to islands, and I would like to reiterate the links of this work to the national islands plan and our wider work to support island communities. I look forward to this afternoon's debate and to discussing the importance of island communities and the steps that are needed to support them in reaching net zero. Thank you. Thank you, cabinet secretary. Could you please move the motion? I'll move the motion, please. I call Liam Kerr to speak to and to move amendment 7558.3 around eight minutes, please, Mr Kerr. Thank you, Presiding Officer. We also welcome the publication of the progress report on the carbon neutral islands project, and we will be pleased to support the government motion today. For reasons that I'll outline and my Conservative colleagues will develop, we will seek support for, and I hereby move in my name, the amendment, which I hope will help the minister to frame her thinking as we go forward. All of us support creating carbon neutral islands to help Scotland to reach net zero, and it is right that the Scottish Government sets up ambitious targets to support six islands in their journey to carbon neutrality by 2040. However, the report comes just a month after Lord Dieben, the chair of the Climate Change Committee, told a committee of this Parliament that the SNP's net zero plans and their legally set targets are so overambitious that there are insufficient strategies that could be implemented to actually achieve them. He commented that there needs to be a clear programme step by step for how Scotland is going to achieve the targets. I think that this is a principle that can be readily read across to this report, which, bear in mind, is covering pledges first made in the 2021 programme for government and extended at COP26, yet it runs to just 18 pages of which three are the front cover, the contents and the back cover. So it has to be a concern that the laudable ambition to help six of Scotland islands to become carbon neutral appears to lack the underlying data and the practical steps for islanders to ensure a just transition to meet the targets. Drilling into that position, I look, for example, at page 4, which cross-references strategic objective 5 in the national islands plan to reduce levels of fuel poverty, an admirable aspiration, but one that demands scrutiny. First, the fact is that this government doesn't know how many Scottish households are in fuel poverty and hasn't had that data since 2019. But what we do know is that the period 2017-19 saw the median fuel poverty gap being higher in island and rural local authorities. Presiding Officer, we also know that there are 170,000 off-gas grid properties in Scotland and the Scottish House Condition Survey for 2017-19 tells us that they are massively concentrated in our island and rural areas. The cost of achieving the upgrades that Minister Harvey demands by 2025, principally using air source heat pumps, has been estimated for these at £32,000, which islanders are going to have to pay themselves if they can afford it. Yet nearly a quarter of these off-gas grid properties are unsuitable for this technology and so the government needs to help these people understand if they can't use the preferred heat pumps. What are the alternative fuel sources? On which note, last year, Minister Harvey told me, recent advice from our statutory advisers, the Climate Change Committee, states that sustainable bioenergy is essential for reaching net zero. Yet in March 2021, the bioenergy updates stated a bioenergy policy working group would be set up to outline how we intend to move forward over the next 18 to 24 months to understand the most appropriate and sustainable use of bioenergy sources in Scotland. I learned three days ago that the bioenergy expert panel, which is intended to inform that group, has not even been assembled yet. So I do find it rather concerning that this report isn't directly addressing these issues and challenges. At page 6, the progress report refers to transport as being part of a carbon neutral island. Now we know that the Climate Change Committee said Scotland will need 30,000 public EV charge points by the end of the decade. We currently have around 3,000, and reports suggest that around a quarter of those at any one time are faulty. Now, just last month, Jamie Greene flagged at Cumbrae, an island of more than 1,400 residents in winter, and part of this project has only one public EV charge point. And that's important because not only do we need EV charge points on islands for residents' vehicles to decarbonise, but as people move to EVs, they have to be confident that they can charge their vehicles on our islands, or the tourist pound might think twice before coming. So what I'd really hope to see in this document is planning, for example, how many charging points does Cumbrae need to become carbon neutral? How many will the government be installing in the next 12 months? And so I know that no discussion of islands transport can be complete without mention of the ferries. Leaving aside the issues that have been rehearsed in this chamber, many times, we simply have to decarbonise shipping. As if nothing else, the SNP Green Government pledged in its 2021 programme for government to make 30 per cent of Scotland's state-owned ferries low emission by 2032. If we are serious about island transport becoming carbon neutral, we can't ignore the fact that the vessels carrying the ardrossan to Brodic and Uig triangle routes are more than 20 years old. And we can't ignore reports that the project to make the notorious hull 801 run on LNG and diesel is stalled after a failure to supply the sensors for the LNG fuel system. So it will be diesel only for at least nine months after launch. And since the LNG storage tanks that are ardrossan and Uig won't be ready until at least 2025, even when running on LNG, the two ships will require between four and six road tanker loads to be imported from Qatar and sent up on the road from Kent. Presiding Officer, the final point I wish to make is also around delivery. It is all well and good to demand, as the report does on page 10, that what will be produced at the end of this is six carbon audit, six climate change action plans and six climate change investment strategies. But someone has to build this infrastructure, install it, test it, maintain it and generally look after it as we go forward. And we have to train these people in the context and that's to be done in the context of the Accounts Commission saying just this week, Scotland's councils face their quote, hardest spending choices in years to make up for budget shortfalls. Of course. Briefly please, cabinet secretary. To say that I fully appreciate the importance of all the points that the member has raised, but would he also appreciate that the project update that we've delivered so far would not be the place to outline all of that information? Because what's really critical with this project is that first of all, we need to get the baseline data. We need to know where we're at with the carbon audits. We also need to build that community engagement to ensure that they're part of that process and in helping deliver us and help deliver the ultimate aims of the project and that they're at the heart of it. We need to build that capacity and we need to work on that as well. So would he accept those points and accept that that's where we need to start with this? And of course there will be further updates as the project progresses. Mr Kerr, I'll give you your time back. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Yes, I do accept that. And I think that's a reasonable point to make. The issue, the key issue I'm bringing up is this was first talked about in the 2021 programme for government. It was revised and rebuilt from COP26. And yet here we are today in January 2023 and none of this is available, as I've pointed out. And the key point to go back to the issue of how we're actually going to deliver this is that in this report, page 12 is the first time that skills are mentioned. And even then, it is only an aspirational we will commence a study that will map the net zero gap skills on Scottish islands. And I presume that means a skills gap rather than gap skills. But I'd be interested to know in closing whether that, which was clearly written before publication, actually commenced in December. So, Presiding Officer, there is no time to lose. Yes, this report is welcome and we absolutely back the aspiration to support the six islands to become carbon neutral by 2040. But it is far from acceptable that, as apparently with so much of this government's output, there is a demonstrable lack of data underpinning the aspiration. There is a blatant failure to plan properly and ultimately far too much of the magical thinking that the Climate Change Committee identified. Accordingly, we will support the motion but for all the reasons demonstrated, I also move the amendment in my name. Thank you, Mr Kerr. I now call on Rhoda Grant to speak to and move amendment 7558.2 Around six minutes, please, Ms Grant. Thank you, Presiding Officer, and I thank the Cabinet Secretary for our prior site of the Carbon Neutral Islands Project progress report. And I'm glad it mentions fuel poverty because all our islands suffer from fuel poverty in common with other off-gas grid areas. We must, during this cost-of-living crisis, ensure that all islanders get this assistance that they require to tackle this. In Barra, one of the islands in the project, six new affordable houses were built at a cost of £1.4 million. This is a true reflection of the building costs for affordable homes throughout all our island communities. Therefore, renewing the housing stock on the scale required is not an option. Existing housing stock needs to be retrofitted. Whilst the Scottish Government has adopted Alex Riley's passive house bill, which will make a difference to the fabric of new-build houses, more work and more research needs to go into retrofit and property to help towards net zero goals and also help to fight fuel poverty. The project is also looking at net zero skills gaps, and this is welcome as there is a lack of these skills, and that is a very real problem. One that I have raised with the Government before, but with little effect, needs to look at how they accredit builders to do the work required. For example, again, talking about retrofitting, currently all training for retrofitting is available in the central belt. A huge expense for small one- or two-person operations, and that is the average size of a building company in these islands to attend. They have no way of recouping that investment. Without that training, they cannot be accredited and they cannot carry out the retrofit and work required. That is not a just transition. This example highlights the need to island-proof all-policy decisions, and I hope that the Scottish Government will look at that. If island-proofing comes to the forefront of the decision-making due to this project, then it is most welcome. The progress report goes into some detail about auditing and overseeing, but, as already said, lacks detail on how it will actually deliver it, and while we need a clear view of where we are, a measurement of the current position, there needs to be an indication of the vision required to make this goal a reality. For instance, who is part of these partnerships? How will communities and private enterprise be included, which public bodies will be taking part? All those organisations must be included given their impact on island life, and when will the Cabinet Secretary be able to put more detail in the public domain? Can I also ask about energy generation? I spoke previously about fuel poverty because island homes are largely off-gas grid, and yet many of our islands have the ability to generate renewable electricity. In many cases, island communities are prevented from generating renewable energy because they cannot get a grid connection to distribute the energy that they generate. Can I ask if that would be one of the challenges that are looked at during this project? Take Orkney as a case in point. Their grid is full, yet they are at the forefront of renewable development. They are unable to reach their full potential because of grid restrictions. Also, when they build public buildings, those public buildings cannot utilise that renewable energy that is available and low-cost in Orkney because they need to use wood-fired boilers in line with Scottish Government policies. There aren't many trees in Orkney, so fuel needs to be transported on island and probably procured from abroad, which is a carbon-generating consequence of that policy. We also hope that the focus on islands in the project does not take away the focus from all our other islands. Again, I go back to Orkney, who recently missed out on having a green port. They have very ambitious harbour redevelopment plans for renewable production. Those plans need to be realised in order that Scotland meets its climate targets. I would welcome reassurance on this point that they will be assisted to develop those harbours. I also can't speak about islands without mentioning ferries. I understand that carbon-generated ferries will not be included in the carbon audits despite everything that comes on island coming by ferry. The reason that was given was that inter-island ferries are run by local government. However, many of the islands have their ferry provided as CalMac, whose ferry building programme is directly the remit of Scottish Government, and therefore they must be included. It is also impossible to reach carbon-neutral goals without the input of local government. Indeed, every organisation with a locus on these islands must be involved, including the UK Government as well as the Scottish Government. However, on ferry specifically, we must look at tried and tested technology to work towards new ferries being run on clean energy. The Government warned that the geofuil ferries that they are attempting to build will not be any greener and possibly even less so. We cannot afford the east design mistakes if we are to meet our goals. Presiding Officer, we welcome the steps that are taken to getting us closer to net zero, but those projects must have a practical impact and must not be simply window dressing. We will be voting for all the amendments, which add, I believe, to the Government's motion. I move the amendment in my name. Thank you, Ms Grant. I now call on Lee MacArthur to speak to and move amendment 7558.1. Around six minutes, please, Mr MacArthur. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I, too, am delighted to be taking part in this debate on a carbon-neutral islands initiative, an initiative strongly supported by Scottish Liberal Democrats. I again reaffirm my congratulations to the six islands selected including Huy in my Orkney constituency. I think that, as Liam Kerr said, the motion this afternoon and indeed much of the progress report is a bit thin on detail, and that may be part of a reflection of where we are in the process. I think that the Cabinet Secretary may reasonably observe that this is an opportunity for MSPs with the experience of different island communities to contribute ideas and proposals. I think that in that spirit, all three amendments this afternoon, I think, have embraced that invitation. I'll offer some thoughts on some of the points made in the other amendments and in the progress report itself, but let me start by reflecting on the issue that forms the basis of my own amendment, which I move. Namely, the compelling case for ministers to make sure that lifeline transport links serving our islands are fully factored into helping our islands achieve carbon-neutral status. Indeed, Climate Exchange's research for this project underscores the importance of cutting emissions from ferry travel to from and between our islands. Self-evidently, none of the six islands selected or any others seeking to follow in their path have any hope of achieving their ambitions without investment in new low-emissions ferries and where relevant air services. Denmark and Norway demonstrate that technology already exists for low-emissions ferries and Orkney itself is leading the way in the development of the technology for low-emissions air travel. However, while the carbon-neutral islands project is commendably, and I think very correctly, a community-driven endeavour, the transition that we need to see in lifeline transport links will need investment, sustained investment, both from Scottish and UK Governments. Some of that has been forthcoming already, but it's been glaringly and I'd say shamefully absent when it comes to addressing the desperately needed replacement of Orkney's internal ferry services upon which Hoy and other islands in my constituency depend. A ferries task force has been established with a view to feeding into the budget process later this year, and that's, of course, welcome, though it must deliver real, tangible and bluntly ferry-shaped results. The financial and environmental cost of operating the current fleet is no longer sustainable. The lack of reliability threatens the viability of island communities in Orkney every bit as much as the more well-publicised disruption on calm routes on the west coast. But let me turn now to the housing issue referred to both in Liam Kerr and Rhoda Grant. I'll take a brief intervention from Jamie Halcro Johnston. I'm very grateful for Liam McArthur taking the intervention just before he moves off the ferries. Would he agree that there are opportunities perhaps in the northern isles and wider afield for fixed links instead of ferries? Would that be something that he would support where suitable? I welcome that intervention. He'll be well aware of the work that my colleague Beatrice Wishart had been doing in relation to Shetland. I think that the debate in Shetland is perhaps further advanced there, but I have absolutely no doubt that there is a debate that we will be having in Orkney in the coming years too. On the question of housing, Orkney, as we've already heard, is some of the highest levels of fuel poverty in the country. It's too often a feature of island life exacerbated at the moment by the cost of living crisis and an energy market that simply doesn't work for island communities. Improving the standard of new housing is essential, but so too will be the task of retrofitting existing housing stock. The Government talks of stepping up investment in retrofitting measures to improve energy efficiency with £1.8 billion of allocated public funding, but its own estimates suggest that it will take around £33 billion to achieve what is needed, and that is an awfully big gap to fill. Climate exchange identifies that the off-gas gas community is affected by an insufficiency of financial incentives and they call for climate financial investments to be more readily available. That seems to make sense, certainly from the experience of the innovative reflex Orkney project of which I am a member. There seems to be a need to look at more creative funding models. Perhaps the SNIB could be encouraged to look at working with local partners to develop, for example, a carbon transition fund. Where sources of funding have been identified, notably with community turbine projects, they have been exceptionally helpful in supporting a range of community-based initiatives. HOI is a perfect illustration of that with the community turbine operated by HOI Energy Ltd has fed money in through the development trust to support a bus service, welfare officer, community centre and there are ambitions to go much further in terms of retrofitting houses on the island and putting in more renewable sources of energy. It has not been helped, I have to say, by the cap brought forward in the energy prices bill that certainly may stymie the ambitions of HOI and other similar communities to go further in developing revenue streams of that sort. Can I perhaps finish off by welcoming the local focus of the approach? I think that every island is different, that has certainly been acknowledged by the cabinet secretary and something those of us who live in islands would readily recognise. I welcome therefore the more local island approach taken, I welcome the appointment of community development officers including Ashlyn Phillips in HOI. I think that the cabinet secretary is absolutely right to point to the opportunities that this provides for young people to return to those communities, bring their energy, their enthusiasm and their talent to this initiative which commands broad support. But there needs to be on-going long-term financial and broader government support if this is to be a success. Government does need to stay the course over the long term to properly empower not just these six islands but other islands who have similar ambitions to meet their net zero targets. In that they will have Scottish Liberal Democrat support and I suspect the support of members across this chamber and with that again I move the amendment in my name and look forward to the remainder of the debate. Thank you Mr MacArthur and we will now move to the open debate speeches of six minutes and I call Alistair Allen to be followed by Jamie Greene Mr, Dr Allen Thank you, Presiding Officer. Scotland's 93 inhabited islands are all radically different from each other not just in their landscapes, histories and locations but in their own cultural traditions, their own economic contributions and their own needs for the future. What all our islands have in common however is their shared appreciation of global environmental threats. The most obvious of those being rising sea levels and increasingly chaotic weather events. As the cabinet secretary has pointed out each of those things is already having a measurable impact on our lives in island communities. It is therefore only natural that islands would want to make their own distinctive contributions towards our collective efforts to decarbonise Scotland. In my own constituency I can point to the long running efforts to develop more wind power. I say long running because it is only now after decades of negotiation that Ofgem has finally made the commitments needed before an inter-connector can be built to export much of the island's renewable potential. Scotland's islands however hold unmeasurable reserves of other types of potential energy to not just wind which is certainly abundant but also tidal and wave power the latter of which is as yet completely untapped. Meanwhile efforts continue to decarbonise transport and housing against the backdrop of challenges including extremely high rates of fuel poverty and poor energy efficiency in many Western Isles homes. I know that the Government and the local authority are working together at present to re-establish area-based insulation schemes which are certainly a key part of addressing that problem. Across my constituency however people are already taking their own steps in working towards reducing the island's carbon footprint. Last year the Scottish Government's islands communities funding assisted local businesses and community groups with sustainability projects including Taks-e-ouish, Clan Macquarie, Community Centre, Gareg Vagatou, the McLean's Bakery and the Leverhulm Community Hub while the regeneration capital grant fund made awards to initiatives like Croix-sur-Yre and in the Dhurst. I mention all of this to put our current debate about six specific islands into the context of the wider work already under way to tackle climate change in many of our islands. The Scottish Government's very welcome commitment to ensure that six islands become entirely carbon neutral by 2040 and in my own constituency the community concerned is the linked islands of Barra and Battersea. Now the definition of carbon neutral in the context of this project means an island which gets to a point where its local greenhouse gas emissions captured as CO2 equivalent are in balance with carbon sinks. And setting out to achieve the same in Barra and Battersea is from the outset going to mean a community-led initiative with the carbon neutral islands anchor organisation on the island voluntary action Barra and Battersea working closely with other community groups businesses and residents to fully explore their islands potential. Because Presiding Officer the best people the experts in their own communities are of course islanders themselves and the journey to decarbonise must be led by them in order to ensure that local knowledge shapes local solutions. Now I'm sure Presiding Officer that this outlook will shape the projects elsewhere too. The on-going fortnightly project group meetings provide an excellent opportunity for the community development officers and steering groups from all six islands to meet together with Community Energy Scotland to exchange knowledge and support and this collaborative approach will help to ensure that Barra and Battersea along with Yale, Rassie, Hoi, Great Cumbria and Islay act as catalysts for decarbonisation across all of Scotland's islands. I will yes. I'm very grateful and I'm listening intently to the member's contribution because I respect that he knows an awful lot more than me about islands. I wonder then just to go back to the question to Jamie Greene posed earlier on can he help me understand what it is in my amendment, in the amendment in my name that he will be objecting to at decision time because I'm struggling to understand that. As I think that the Government have set out that while there may have been things that could have been agreed with, it didn't go, it wasn't addressing all the needs of islands that I think this side of the chamber had identified as important. But I'm certainly sure as I say that going forward those islands will influence work that's taken place within other islands too. And on the 30th of November 2022 a project showcase was held in Castle Bay. This was an opportunity for the community to learn more about the Carbon Neutral Islands project from members of the Scottish Government's islands team. The Carbon Neutral Islands team then met with a range of local businesses to discuss numerous potential opportunities for collaboration within the project. Presiding Officer, I really just want to conclude by saying that although the deadline for this part of the project is not far off on the 31st of March, after that the community in Barat and Battersea will be in a position to create specific local climate change action plans again led by the community at every stage. And in order to successfully achieve the project's aims there will of course be challenges on the way. Some of which will be unique to Barat and Battersea some of which will be experienced elsewhere. But Barat and Battersea will be playing their part as will other islands to ensuring that Scotland meets its aims of zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2045. Thank you Dr Allan. I now call Jamie Greene to be followed by Jenny Minto. Mr Greene. Thank you Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I thank members thus far for their contributions? I think it's fair to say that since I was elected to this place in 2016 I've sought to bring up numerous issues about island life and some of the struggles that our islanders face in any way that I can. I represent two of Scotland's most beautiful islands I should say as part of my region the aisles of Arran and Cumbria. It's really good news that Cumbria is on the list of those six that we're talking about today. But I also sat in the rural economy and connectivity committee for many years in the last session where we passed numerous pieces of legislation such as the Transport Bill and the so-called Flagship Islands Bill although I'm yet to meet anyone who knows actually what the islands bill has done for islands but that's a debate for another day. I was also my party's digital spokesperson and transport spokesperson for many years and I took part in so many debates on those issues connectivity, energy, transport, housing, net zero, ferries and don't worry I'm coming on to ferries. And many of these do form the substance of the motion that we are debating and that's why our amendment focuses in on some of those areas. It's no secret I've been critical of the government where I believe that they have failed our islanders and our island communities and not least many of the grand promises that have been made over consecutive programmes for government and manifesto commitments but I've also given credit where credit is due. Today's comments from me today will be a bit of a mixed bag and I think that's partially because of my I would say deep disappointment at the front bench today for not supporting our amendment. I would also ask backbenchers please read the amendment don't just read your whip sheet look at the content look at the words contained therein what we're trying to do and I specifically went out of my way not to directly attack or criticise the government in the amendment for good reason what it does do however is point out that there is welcome resource coming from both of Scotland's governments that's a fact whether you like it or not it does point out that it does require a cross-governmental approach across all government departments and agencies to support our islands that's a fact as well and it's difficult to disagree with that and it also points out that islanders themselves will play a part and are already doing much good work and I'm going to cover some of that. I mentioned the Isle of Cumbria in the west of Scotland one of the six islands to achieve hopefully net zero and I think that's going to be ambitious and difficult but I really hope that everyone on Cumbria is on board with it and that will come through a well publicised communication from the government but also making it quite clear to them in a most jargon-free way that we can what is required of them as islanders not what we do and what we tell them to do but what we're asking them to do because they each have a part to play in it. Good work is being done I have to say I was really impressed on a visit to the Field Studies Council centre in Milport which has reduced its carbon emissions by 34 per cent in the last decade it has saved 390 tonnes of carbon dioxide through a whole range of interventions solar panels mini wind turbines and better insulation in its buildings I spoke before in this chamber about a cracking new business that I went to visit recently on Cumbria itself Jack's Altstays which is a I say posh glamping but it's better than that it's eco-friendly and that's what's really important it's run by two young lads entrepreneurial commercially astute but also socially aware and they put the environment at the heart of what they're doing and that to me is really what this project is all about it's role models on the ground in their island communities setting up businesses but they need government support and they need government help and the problem we have and this is why it is important that we talk about transportation is that is what is letting so many of them down 2022 I'm afraid was probably the worst year on record for connectivity to those two islands that I mentioned in my region more than half of CalMac's fleet are way beyond their life cycle and we know all the problems that comes with that the physical, the fiscal problems but also the financial cost and we heard from CalMac this week about that the reason I mentioned that is not simply just to have another bash at the government about ferries which we do so often I'm afraid but it's actually because it is important there's no point having a carbon free island if the waters around it are polluted by ageing vessels what we need are and many countries have been very good at this very ambitious and if I had time I would talk about them there's so much more that could be done I want to touch on something slightly different in my contribution that's how we measure carbon reduction I think that is perhaps because it is actually the first point in the implementation strategies carbon audits it then talks about action plans and then investment strategy and I think that's the right logical order that the ministers put things in but carbon audits are important the problem we have is there's not a consistent approach to how we account for greenhouse gases or carbon emissions across the islands that's not my point of view that's actually the point of view of climate exchange itself the think tank that the government is clearly engaging with if we cannot adequately and properly quantify carbon reduction then we don't know where the interventions need to happen and if we don't know where the interventions need to happen then the government won't know where the funding needs to go so that logical flow has to take place but what I would say to the government is that data should already be here you know it's a nice progress report but there's 16 pages and that includes the front and the last page lots of pictures lots of maps lots of spaces between words what I wanted to see in it was data and if the government doesn't have that data and needs to get it quickly the next progress report must tell us where we are at in those six islands and I take on board the points that Liam McArthur made about this being a starting point and opportunity for us to raise those concerns in this debate while I'm raising them in this debate I could talk I'm in my closing seconds but if I get my time back happily if it's a brief intervention a brief response very briefly sitting off I just wanted to test whether the member appreciates that some of the data he's talking about is currently being collected on the ground by some of the development officers sitting behind him Jamie Greene I'm very pleased to hear that and I welcome into the chamber but you know this is a progress report I was going to be unkind I would call it a lack of progress report I'm afraid minister because there's not much in it for us to go on in today's debate I welcome everything that is in it but what I do want to see are some real action plans it's all very well talking about an implementation strategy but what are the strategies and what is the investment and where is it coming from and as far as I can see much of it's coming from the private sector or PPP not actually from the government itself which was the point of our amendment I'll finish on this you know our islands need action now because we're not far away from that target and it's the basics that we need to get right and it's the basics that the government can deliver on housing, transport, insulation on energy these are things that the government can already do and should be doing and it's only then if we stand a chance to get these six islands fully carbon neutral and that means all of us pulling together and all of government pulling together and accepting its own responsibilities in delivering the outcomes that we all want thank you thank you Mr Greene I now call Jenny Minto to be followed by Mercedes Miss Minto Thank you, Presiding Officer it gives me great pleasure to speak in this debate I refer members to my register of interests I have a personal investment in Islay Energy Community Benefit Society owners of Islay's community winter and I'm a member of Islay Energy Trust and of course Islay is my home Islay Energy Trust is the anchor organisation for Islay's carbon neutral island steering group and it is their work that I will focus on I'd like to thank George Dean of the Trust and Tom Skinner for their information for my contribution to this debate and also all the other steering group volunteers on Islay and those who are supporting them who are providing their time knowledge and ideas to this project There is evidence of human life on Islay for 12,000 years its fertility attracted misolithic hunter-gatherers followed by neolithic farmers and well before its reputation as a whisky producer Islay was famous as the green island and now as one of Scotland's carbon neutral islands Islay is once again set to become green Islay Currently more than 80% of Islay's energy comes from fossil fuels and its electricity network capacity via subsea cables to Dura and then to Islay is severely constrained this makes decarbonisation extremely challenging and demand for electricity is growing existing distilleries are increasing output more are being built more housing is planned and the use of EVs is expanding Islay needs action Over the years Islay has frequently been at the forefront of testing new renewable energy technology and projects that utilise heat exchange photovoltaics wave and wind power have all been developed for example Beaumaud's community spoon pool uses waste heat from Beaumaud's oscillary these projects are great but now is the time for Islay Scotland the world to change as Greta Thunberg says once we start to act hope is everywhere so instead of looking for hope look for action then and only then hope will come this action is starting on Islay there are 23 volunteers representing a broad spectrum of the community three working groups have been created covering energy and transport land use and waste as the cabinet secretary has said the baseline carbon audit is currently being carried out which is considerable on Islay due to the island's industrialisation both distilling and farming yes of course Liam Kerr I'm very grateful The member will presumably know better than I that presumably the nature of the islands the population of the islands and the emissions from the islands will change significantly depending on when that audit is done whether it be the summer and the tourist season or the winter for example so can she tell me on the carbon audit over what period is the carbon audit being conducted and how does the Government intend to make sure it's authoritative for all times of the year? I thank the member for that intervention the carbon audit is currently being taken just now and people in the group on Islay are working with farmers who clearly have are having to do carbon audits as well but also working closely with the distilleries to look at what the developments are going to be it's a small island people talk people understand what's going on people know about development and that's the joy of this project in that it is pulling together people with different experiences and different knowledge to find out the situation that we are now and hopefully a projection as well into the future it's possible that Islay's greenhouse gases will exceed the total of the other five carbon neutral islands put together this analysis phase is planned to be finalised in the next four weeks so Liam Kerrill will be able to find out more about it then it will then be followed by development of options and timescales to decarbonise along with the wider community the waste working group is looking at current arrangements and considering what might work better and the land use group as I've said are working with farmers which is more intensive than other islands so they're looking at practices to see what can be improved the Scottish Government's act of further investment of £3 million into the project is very welcome and I hope will enable other investments to be levered into the project I hope too that each island will receive a share that reflects the scale and nature of the challenges it faces an important element of Argyllunbut's rural growth deal is supporting isla towards a low carbon economy it is likely that this will focus on domestic properties the age profile has been mentioned previously about other islands of islas homes mean that 50% of no EPC and are likely to fall below modern standards so the rural growth deal alongside other support schemes will aim to improve insulation and introduce small scale renewables however there is another capacity issue here although IET continues to provide training for local tradespeople there are simply not enough of them I could go down the route of lack of housing and the impact of second homes but that's a debate for another day Scotland does provide isla with longer term options to address its electricity requirements Scottish power renewables have the option to build a 2 gigawatt wind farm north west of isla and have signed an MOU with IET there is an ambition to land a proportion of its output directly onto isla which could revolutionise energy youth on the island giving local control and involving improved infrastructure it's important in my view that these discussions with the distribution network operator SSE will occur Presiding officer to finish carbon neutral isla aims to establish itself at the heart of isla's net zero journey one which will demonstrate the island's spirit tenacity, innovation and forward thinking exactly the attributes we need to take this transformational action desperately needed Thank you Ms Minto I now call Mercedes Biaba to be followed by Fiona Hyslop Mercedes Biaba Thank you Deputy Presiding Officer I rise to speak to the Labour amendment because although we welcome the progress the Scottish Government is making in supporting the six islands in the carbon neutral islands project to becoming fully carbon neutral by 2040 we must not lose sight of the needs of people living on islands not included in this project as has already been said today the cost of living crisis is hitting some island communities hardest with extreme fuel poverty being highest among some of the islands not included in the project and as we know fuel poverty or any other aspect of poverty requires action on incomes and while employment law remains reserved a greater commitment from this Government could be demonstrated to address the systemic failures in our economy which suppress wages and widen wealth inequality so that's why it's so disappointing that today's motion doesn't commit the Government to investing in island services or to prioritising job creation and retention on islands and it's why the Labour amendment calls for guarantees that a just transition for workers is included in all areas of the carbon neutral islands strategy Today is just one debate and I expect we'll hear constructive ideas from speakers from across the chamber and I hope that the Scottish Government will take those forward and integrate them into all aspects of upcoming legislation because for every bill we pass in this Parliament the application to islands can be understood as a microcosm for the rest of Scotland if something works for our islands with all the pressures and difficulties islanders face then making it work for the mainland must surely be achievable Take the circular economy bill for example this presents us with an opportunity to shorten supply chains which improves food, energy and workforce security among other areas and that in turn can only increase the resilience of our islands counteract depopulation and ensure they are places where people thrive and live well but this takes planning investment and a prioritisation of people over profit of democracy over diktat and of workforce investment over short termist outsourcing Presiding Officer I've listened with interest to the speeches in today's debate because unlike many if not all of the members who have spoken I do not live on one of Scotland's islands nor do my constituents however it's important to stress the importance of sustainable island life to the rest of the country as has already been highlighted islands represent significant opportunities in renewable energy and economic development for Scotland and they're also of course home to thousands of Scots with a history and culture intrinsic to life in the rest of Scotland I've also benefited from the opportunity to visit some of Scotland's islands Last summer as part of my research into community land ownership I visited Gia and Collinsay where I heard about the difficulty of maintaining schools and other services in declining populations and of the difficulty of building communities when so many are experiencing homelessness yet despite those difficulties I saw incredible determination and resilience but that resilience doesn't relieve us of our duty so I urge all members to support Labour's amendment which reminds us all of our responsibility to islanders and to our path to net zero Thank you Ms Viaba I now call Fiona Hyslop to be followed by Ariane Burgess Ms Hyslop Thank you Presiding Officer Scotland's islands have so much to offer and to learn from in the delivery of net zero and can lead the way in offering solutions for current and future challenges and I will address this debate not as an MSP for an island constituency but from my perspective as member of the net zero committee and talk more widely about our islands not just the selected six because others will have more local knowledge as we've heard We know that our island communities are vulnerable to the impacts of climate change they face particular costs of living issues and are trying to recover from the pandemic and the continuing repercussions of Brexit and there is an I already and an outright anger that 40 per cent of people living in the West Nile live in fuel poverty according to Energy Action Scotland compared to a Scottish average of 24 per cent of old households from figures last year and neither figure is acceptable but there are many examples of islands leading the way in renewables for example at Ocne Surf and Turf is an innovative community project in Ocne that uses surplus electricity generated from renewable energy to split water making hydrogen gas as a fuel and it's been as a result of islanders thinking out of the box regarding energy Renewable energy generation for wind, wave and tide sees Ocne in the lead in many regards and on storage I'm pleased that Vanadium batteries and alternative Tlithium batteries are being used on Ocne to store hydrogen and they are manufactured at the infinity site in Bathgate in my constituency Construction on improvements to Scapaflow Harbour the largest natural deep water harbour in the northern hemisphere is another example which is one that is due to start construction 2024 and that has potential future birthing of reduced carbon international shipping enroute through the north west passage in the Arctic saving many kilometres in carbon and it's not out of the realms of possibility that will have global impact and on the western isles at the end of last year it was named as one of the potential hydrogen hubs by the Scottish Government due to islands abundant onshore and offshore wind resources producing enough renewable hydrogen to power the islands as well as for export to the UK domestic and international markets but improved transmission of electricity from the growing offshore wind sector off the isles to power local business but importantly to tackle the fuel poverty I referred to earlier is essential proper interconnect to grid connections and tackling excessive transmission costs will be vital if that potential to export electricity and green hydrogen is to be realised not just for the western isles but other isles too and innovative storage solutions that I referred to earlier will also be key and on Barra in particular the electrification of airplanes using its speech I assume will be part of the carbon neutral project Shetland is already home to world leading wind farms such as Burrardale which generates 3.68 megawatts enough to power more than 2,000 homes and Garth Wind Farm operated by the North Yell Development Council boasting five 900 kilowatt wind turbines that generate clean electricity for the local grid whilst reinvesting profit back into the local community now on Tuesday evening the net zero committee heard from stakeholders that fixed transport links for Unst and Yell could in fact be the preferred longer term route to inter-island carbon neutrality with electric car use Fuller are already generating their own electricity and have ambitions that it power electric ferries Shetland will also be home to the UK's most productive onshore wind farm in terms of electricity output SSE-owned Viking Energy Wind Farm is due to become operational in 2024-25 and in reference to Islay my family have reliably informed me about the sustainable carbon-saving initiatives from the islands whisky businesses wherever Clanty leads the way and I think they had extensive research as part of that inquiry on Rasse I would say that they have great entrepreneurship and innovation I met members of the Rasse community at the Arctic Circle conference in Reykjavik where they were presenting on their local sustainable water project and their entrepreneurialism I think lends itself to being one of the six selected islands Islands and I think this is the message from this debate Islanders are the experts in their own local community and the journey to decarbonisation must be led by island communities to ensure local knowledge shapes local solutions There is a strong message here for the government and mainland local authorities for strategic support with local island leadership and innovation Scotland is a world leader in the deployment of floating wind We currently have the two world's largest operational floating wind farms with a third under development which will supersede these two wind farms to become the world's largest project Tide and Wave are also being led from the islands and the EMEC project is testament to that and islands can also be world leaders in sustainable tourism and I am encouraged by Visit Scotland's work on this and sensible promotion of electric car hire can ease ferry loads and costs A further benefit comes from developing peer learning among islands among the world leading to strengthened international relationships and I'm keen that the government supports that So while there will be challenges ahead while as we've heard there can be criticism about the scale scope and remit of this it is clear that there is a massive opportunity for our island communities to lead the way in realising Scotland's climate change ambitions They are well placed and highly motivated to be hubs of innovation in renewable energy and climate change resilience Presiding Officer our islands are profoundly important to Scotland and are known around the world and I have no doubt that the world will be watching and learning from the carbon neutral islands project Thank you Mrs Love I now call Ariane Burgess to be followed by Donald Cameron Ms Burgess Presiding Officer I'd like to thank the cabinet secretary for providing sight of the progress report providing clarity on the outputs of the carbon neutral islands project is welcome and gives assurance that this project can produce useful outcomes for the six lighthouse communities and all our islands and while I welcome the on-going progress being made in these six lighthouse communities it cannot be forgotten that we as it has been said already have 87 other inhabited island communities facing challenges to carbon neutrality lack of resources and expertise and financial restraints are significant barriers to island communities taking ownership of projects and long-term planning likewise our diverse island communities are at very different stages in this process and trailblazers such as egg will require different support than those less progressed the isle of egg heritage trust continue to demonstrate pioneering work on energy decarbonisation the development of their forestry sector and community ownership celebrating 25 years since their groundbreaking community buyout they have proved that community-led decarbonisation can be successful in the long-term and contributes to community wealth building population retention and even expansion the extended period of power cuts and internet outage in Shetland last month emphasised the need to build resilience within island communities the transition to carbon neutrality offers us that opportunity to do so we must prioritise reducing island household and businesses being at the mercy of market failures creating householder resilience through smart storage and small-scale generation will change the normal consumer into prosumers producing, consuming and selling energy smartly we must do what we can with the inadequate power we have on energy affairs to change the imbalance of our current energy market which fuel poverty indicators show our islanders bear the brunt of and I'm keen to hear whether the cabinet secretary thinks we have adequate powers in Scotland to truly tackle the energy crisis and move to carbon neutrality in our islands Presiding Officer I strongly agree with Zoe Holiday CEO of Community Energy Scotland who emphasised that communities are not just key beneficiaries of the recently published energy strategy but also key actors in its realisation To achieve this vision a joined up approach is essential I look forward to the delayed island energy strategy which must bring together plans already in place and integrate with the carbon neutral islands project Island communities do not face one single barrier to decarbonisation but an array of barriers across portfolio areas and that is why I'm pleased the selection of the six islands in this project represent a diversity of circumstances and stages on the path to decarbonisation It's vital that the experience and knowledge gained through this project is shared to maximise the support we can give and inform work in all our island communities The carbon neutrality of all our island communities will not be achieved without emphasis on our natural environment Island communities have long histories of economies based on the natural environment kelp harvesting forestry peat extraction have at points dominated island economies and still today farming and fishing play a crucial role Achieving carbon neutrality in our islands must include direct support for both new nature-based economies and decarbonising where we can existing sectors The 2021 to 2022 programme for government included a commitment to support new green and nature-based skills activity particularly on the islands and this should be an opportunity to deliver that promise The blue carbon economy and nature restoration are exciting opportunities where we can do exactly this I want to stress how pleased I am that the plans being developed with host communities will be community led community owned and community actioned and I'm also delighted to see that almost all of the community development officers are graduate returning islanders and I welcome them to the chamber today The wider social impact and opportunities for communities to build social resilience must not be forgotten in our efforts towards carbon neutrality I hope the cabinet secretary can provide some assurance today that the plans created will include this wider role of social resilience and that on-going funding for the development officers charged will be delivering them in secure long term Presiding Officer, in conclusion there are no silver bullets for the challenges our island communities face Government must recognise that a diverse cross-cutting approach is essential The move to carbon neutrality offers an exciting opportunity not only for our climate and biodiversity but most of all for our communities and I am excited to see how these communities harness this and the future work of the carbon neutral islands project Thank you Thank you, Ms Burgess I now call Donald Cameron to be followed by Monica Lennon Mr Cameron Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer Can I begin by dwelling on the point about the amendments? I do have to say I am astonished that the Scottish Government don't feel they can support the amendment in Liam Kerr's name and I have yet to hear any SNP member give any justification proper justification for that position It is a detailed amendment It lists Well, yes If you can Johnathan is that The opposition always accuses the Government of having motherhood and apple pie and everything in the kitchen sink in motions I suspect actually that's the problem with this it's not as specific as it can and should be on a very specific carbon island project for six specific islands Donald Cameron Will that offers absolutely that proves my point it offers no justification It is a detailed amendment It lists a number of different issues many of which have been covered by SNP speakers and I hope that the reason the SNP are not supporting this isn't the fact that this amendment has the four words welcomes UK Government investment because that would be utterly depressing Let's move on When we last debated this issue in May it was clear that there was a need for the Scottish Government to provide more detail as to how it seeks to achieve this ambitious scheme which we have already said enjoys broad support across this chamber All too often we have heard about various projects aimed at reducing our carbon output and meeting Scotland's net zero targets but on so many occasions the Scottish Government is found to be wanting when it comes to moving beyond general principles which we do support and on to practical sometimes technical change and as Liam Kerr has already quoted Lord Dieben chairman of the CCC who said that Scotland's climate goals are increasingly at risk without real progress towards the milestones that Scottish ministers have previously laid out and he told the net zero committee unless there is clear movement towards those targets they are without meaning Now speaking personally I have to say I remain to be convinced that there has been significant progress advancing the carbon neutral islands plan since it was first announced back in September 2021 and I welcome the report but there is a lack of detail in it the report references the six islands I'm sorry I've already taken one intervention and I only have a few minutes left the report references the six islands that were announced last May and it refers to the criteria by which each island was selected and some of the measures that the Scottish Government looked to take but there is still a lot that we don't know we don't know what this project really means in practice how it will affect islands in their everyday lives we don't know what measures communities will need to take to achieve carbon neutral status and we don't know what investment the Scottish Government will need to make and I hope that the Government the minister may be able to address in summing up because while we support this project and we will work constructively to ensure it can be realised we do think there are a number of unanswered questions and I also know that there is support from the communities and the islands that have been selected in principle and in August I had a visit to Barra and had a pleasure of meeting members of the Barra and Vatysau community council Alasdair Arlands mentioned them already they were very enthusiastic about this they told me that the voluntary voluntary action Barra and Vatysau who are the local anchor organisation have already taken initiative developing local projects and will help to meet its carbon neutral goals Jamie Halcro Johnston, my colleague, organised the most recent meeting of the cross-party group on islands and that meeting heard how Orkney is driving forward the green agenda through projects such as Reflex Orkney a specific item mentioned in our amendment Liam McArthur has already spoken about Orkney but I was encouraged to hear about the work of the island centre for net zero which brings together partners from Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles to work towards decarbonisation the centre has been backed by the island's growth deal and has received £16.5 million worth of investment another example of the positive things that can happen when the UK and Scottish Governments work together because collaborative working not just between the Scottish Government and the UK Government between local authorities and the communities that have been selected to deliver this project is vital um there are some issues that others have touched on which I will repeat there has been there needs to be more mention of islands depopulation and the associated issues that contribute to this it's the biggest single threat to island life and we have to tackle it and its causes head on if we are to achieve the well-intentioned aims such as carbon neutral status and we've debated this many times in this chamber there has to be a renewed focus on the need for more affordable energy efficient housing in our islands in addition as others have mentioned there is the on-going crisis engulfing Scotland's ferry network again much debated but we have to move forward and deliver new ferries that not only meet the needs of island communities but also ferries that are as carbon neutral as possible and finally in this regard the use of fixed links I know as it already been mentioned is imperative to develop that and I welcome the call from Beatrice Wishart only yesterday in the chamber for a debate on that issue in conclusion deputy presiding officer we support the aims and ambitions of the Scottish Government's carbon neutral islands project although are frustrated at the lack of detail how will we help these islands achieve carbon neutral status we need more clarity we need more clarity on the role that transport will play with the focus on ferries we need more clarity on the role that housing will play with the focus on energy efficiency and I hope that when we next debate this issue we will know more about this and how the Scottish Government will bring together these different components to achieve meaningful and lasting change thank you thank you Mr Cameron I now call Monica Lennon to be followed by Jackie Dunbar who will be the last speaker in the open debate is Lennon thank you presiding officer I welcome the opportunity to take part in this debate this afternoon and I have enjoyed listening to colleagues from right across the chamber we've heard about some of the challenges and concerns but I think overall people are optimistic about our island communities and islanders and the talent and ideas that they bring to this debate and I hope that island communities feel that their voices are being heard as a member representing Central Scotland region I am a bit of an outsider in this debate however many of my constituents across Lanarkshire and Falkirk are from island communities have family, social and business connections with our islands and I have come to appreciate that more and understand that more as a member of the Parliament's net zero energy and transport committee so similar to Fiona Hyslop who is our colleague on the committee and Liam Kerr we take the issues in the debate today very seriously and I think also we are looking for innovative ways to make sure that island communities are heard in the Parliament so personally I've enjoyed the opportunity in recent months to spend time in Orkney and in the western isles to hear directly from islanders and we did have some online engagement this week including with young people to make sure that they are represented and I'm glad that the cabinet secretary touched on that important point in her opening remarks we know that the diversity of Scotland's islands enriches our culture and I think Alasdair Allan touched on those points very well my interest today in the carbon neutral islands project and the decarbonisation journey my particular interest is in transport and I think that Liam McArthur and his amendment and his speech has touched on a vitally important point around the decarbonisation of lifeline ferry services across all routes that serve Scotland's island community something that we on the Labour benches feel strongly about too if I just reflect on the progress report which I welcome the very first sentence in the cabinet secretary's name says that climate change and nature loss are the greatest threats facing our planet and I hope that that's something that we all focus on in this debate and I do agree that island communities should be front and centre in the journey to net zero I think that the report talks about the skills gap yes the net zero gap skills I think it was the skills gap but Liam carried me those points but we hear this in our work in the net zero committee that they need for more training the more investment more joined up working and partnership working and I think these are issues where government can't fix it alone but we do need collaboration and partnership but the investment is absolutely key because I haven't met anyone yet who is resistant to the net zero agenda but there is more practical support that is required and sustainable investment including in third sector organisations who bring many many skills to the table I mentioned young people I think the young islanders network is clearly very important and it's good that we have some visitors in the gallery today I think in all of these debates the publication of a strategy in the report is very welcome but it's the action and the delivery is where we really see change happen so I understand why there is some concern coming from the conservative benches I think Liam Kerr has made some important point as has Jamie Greene I know that the action plans will be published later in the year but that will be crucial because I don't particularly like to hear as a citizen of Scotland when the UK climate change committee comes to Parliament and warns us here about the danger of magical thinking we have to really pay attention and wake up to that I'm not sure that Lord Diebin was saying that Scotland's been over ambitious I'm not sure if that's exactly what he said so Liam Kerr maybe got that a little bit muddled but I think the point is well made that we can be ambitious and have the targets but we need to have the delivery plan to make sure that we deliver and work at pace I think that's a warning to all of us that there is no room for complacency here and of course the Labour amendments today are really important because we have to frame this and what's happening in the year and now the cost of living crisis how we actually achieve a just transition so I think Mercedes Villalba made very important points about the need to have the right investment you know the right job creation so that we can tackle wealth inequalities and the fuel poverty that many colleagues have mentioned today when I was visiting Orkney and speaking to some of the constituency that Liam MacArthur has talked about you know I was very very concerned to hear about the you know the high levels of fuel poverty these are the issues that we do have to grapple with the points have been made I think already by Rhoda Grant but I think they're worth repeating about not including the insert island ferry services other colleagues in this chamber know these issues better than I do but I recognise the frustration and disappointment around that minister say it's because local authorities have the responsibility not government but we know that four of the six islands are served by Calmax I think these issues need more tiddable responses but I agree with colleagues who are optimistic who see the opportunities but we need to make sure the delivery plan and the investment is up to scratch thank you thank you Ms Lennon and I now call Jackie Dunbar who will be the last speaker in the open debate Mr Dunbar thank you Presiding Officer as a member of the NSET committee I'm happy to speak in this debate this afternoon and as the member for Aberdeen Donside I want to see this innovative work as supporting our island communities on their journey to net zero is crucial for Scotland as a whole carbon neutral islands will be in the vanguard of reaching net zero emissions targets by 2045 leading the way in the journey to net zero while supporting other areas across Scotland islands can lead the way in offering solutions for current and future challenges Scotland's islands have been leaders in renewable energy development and innovation and that is why the Scottish Government is determined to harness that potential and build on that success to meet Scotland's 2045 net zero ambitions the carbon neutral islands project will embrace the opportunity for island communities to lead the way in realising Scotland's climate change ambitions and directly supporting six islands in their journey to be carbon neutral by 2040 it will not only benefit the environment but support local economies facilities and general wellbeing through investment in communities I'm very grateful to the member I'm enjoying the member's comments I wonder though does she welcome the UK Government's investment in carbon reducing reducing initiatives on Scotland islands I thank the member for the intervention Mr Kerr I'm an Aberdonian I welcome money's money to me as long as it's new money and there's no strings attached I welcome it the innovative carbon neutral islands project highlights islands as hubs of innovation and our move towards becoming carbon neutral the carbon neutral islands project is underpinned by three key principles alignment, fairness and replicability first the project aims to align with existing island based climate change efforts and avoided duplication of those efforts secondly the project will support islands to become carbon neutral in a just and fair way thirdly the project will provide opportunities for all Scottish islands through an effective process of learning and sharing of net zero and climate resilience related good practice this project also provides an opportunity to demonstrate the low carbon energy potential of islands as hubs of innovation in relation to renewable energy and climate change resilience this will also positively impact on island economies facilities and general wellbeing by allowing for reinvestment in the communities our island communities are also directly benefiting Aberdeen and the northeast of Scotland through bringing in a new era of renewable energy potential while sustainably transitioning away from traditional oil and gas mineral extraction the six islands which are part of the project will act as catalysts for decarbonisation across all Scottish islands and the Scottish government is working closely with community energy Scotland to deliver the project for each of the islands the Scottish government is developing in-depth carbon audits community climate change action plans and climate change investment strategies on each carbon neutral island to the Scottish government's delivery partner community energy Scotland is working closely with a steering group made up with key members of the island community Presiding Officer although we must acknowledge that our island communities face some unique challenges we must also acknowledge that the Scottish government is committed to supporting that island communities the Scottish budget for 2023-24 commits overall funding of £3 million for carbon neutral islands creating jobs protecting our island environments from climate change impacts and contributing to the delivery of Scotland's statutory climate change targets in September 2022 it was announced that six island local authorities would receive a share of £4.45 million to assist critical projects on climate change, population retention and tourism and a total of 11 projects spread across 31 islands have received funding for the current financial year as part of the island's programme On December 9 2022 the Scottish government announced a £1.4 million island's cost crisis emergency fund to target immediate support to those who are struggling due to the cost of living crisis either through existing schemes or new support The successful rollout of the £30 million island's programme is funding projects that will help to encourage people to live healthier lifestyles and improve their resilience and I welcome this Presiding Officer Scotland is delivering lasting action to secure a net zero future in a way that is fair and just for everyone Scotland can rightly be proud of the action taken so far to respond to the climate crisis The Scottish government has committed to reaching net zero emissions by 2045 with an ambitious interim 2030 target of a 75% reduction These targets include decarbonising the northeast from the heart of the Scottish Government's indicative national determined contribution to the Paris agreement published ahead of COP26 Scotland's emissions are down by 51.5% since the 1990 baseline and Scotland continues to outperform the UK as a whole in delivering long-term reductions In closing, Presiding Officer, I again welcome this debate and the steps that are being taken in the face of the global climate emergency Thank you Thank you, Mr Barre And we will now move to closing statements and I call on Liam McArthur around six minutes, please, Mr McArthur Thank you very much indeed, Presiding Officer I think this has been a genuinely good debate I reflected what debate should be about which is the exchange of ideas We may not necessarily agree on all those ideas but I think it served a useful purpose I certainly welcome the cabinet secretary's confirmation that she will support my amendment and the amendment name of Rhoda Grant I think the reason for not supporting Liam Kerr's amendment is rather strange I think it's absolutely right, as I said in my opening remarks, that the Government is looking to take a local islands-based approach looking at the six islands as lighthouse communities the anchoring of these initiatives in each island with a single organisation supported through community energy Scotland the collaborative approach I think that Alasdair Allan referred to seems to be absolutely the right one I think that Mercedes Villalba was right to point to questions about how that learning is then extended beyond those six islands and I would certainly say that as well as exchanging ideas about good practice it's important to learn the lessons of things that don't work as well but I am surprised and share some of the surprise expressed by Donald Cameron and Jamie Greene that the Government can't support the amendment I think the activity that we are talking about at a local level cannot be disconnected from the on-going action and support both of Scottish Government and indeed of the UK Government I talked in my own remarks about the imperative of developing more creative financial mechanisms and models, for example, to support the work on the ground that is going to require national government intervention both at a Scottish-UK level indeed Fiona Hyslop and what I thought was an excellent speech talked about the strategic support and the local leadership and it seems to me that it's that symbiotic relationship that we're looking for In the debate, Liam Kerr opened up by talking about the challenge we face in meeting our climate targets these targets have no lack of ambition we've, I think, regularly congratulated ourselves on what are seen as world-leading targets but I think we are all seized of the concerns that the UK Climate Change Committee has now been making for some time about the absence of detailed plans and pathways to the achievement of those targets and I think Monica Lennon was right to pull up Liam Kerr in relation to Lord Demond's comments which were not a criticism of the ambition but were more, I think, a plea for the detail of how that ambition could be met to be put forward I think that's reflected in some of the debate we've heard today in relation to the progress report one key aspect of that has been in relation to fuel poverty which was very much the feature of Rhoda Grant's comments and we know the situation in Ireland is bad I think it's legitimate to say that we don't necessarily know quite how bad and that, I think, does impede our efforts to try and tackle it I think both Rhoda Grant and indeed Alasdair Allan echoed concerns I've made about the fact that the way in which the energy market is currently regulated does, I think, hinder our ability both to tackle fuel poverty but also, I think, works against the interests of Ireland communities more generally and certainly stands in the way at the moment of innovation that could achieve some of the ambitions that we've been talking about today on transport could I echo the comments that were made by a number of speakers notably Liam Kerr in relation to the the EV charging network but it's not just the numbers it's making sure that the maintenance of that network is sustained in a way that we're not necessarily seeing at the moment on lifeline ferries I'll not repeat what I said earlier though I very much welcome Monica Lennon's endorsement of that and I think in terms of the laudable ambition of creating carbon neutral islands you can't avoid the feeling that that's going to lack credibility for as long as this fundamental issue remains unaddressed I think it was Jamie Greene talked about the fact that you would have these carbon neutral islands with polluting ferries plowing back and forth delivering vital services and delivering the population back and forth too and that simply doesn't feel to me terribly sustainable but I think we're not we're not I think moving from a standing start here I think Alasdair Allan reminded us that islands haven't waited to be invited to take action in tackling the climate emergency delivering a degree of self-sufficiency and climate mitigation they're taking action each will have its different challenges but there are common issues as well but the solutions will need to be tailored to meet the needs and circumstances in each island I thought Jenny Minto as usual gave a a passionate advocacy of what's happening in Islay I would certainly commend her for her personal involvement in a lot of that activity what was maybe slightly more surprising was Fiona Hyslop's position as an evangelist for Shetland which I very much welcome but I think it gives me an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon and do likewise for Orkney in terms of arc and credentials we are I would say the energy islands our track record and development of renewables marine onshore and soon to be offshore I think the reflex project which being mentioned by many brings together not just the generation issues but how that's then deployed in meeting the challenges in transport and heat so our islands have the skills they have the incentive and they have the appetite to embrace I think what we're trying to achieve through carbon neutral islands we do need to flesh out the detail and the pathway to achieving that but I hope the local development officers who are sitting up in the gallery can take some reassurance from the fact that their endeavours enjoy a degree of cross-party support I very much look forward to supporting Ashlyn and others involved in the project in Hoi not least in getting those that project and the lessons from it rolled out elsewhere in Orkney but also look forward to working with the Government to take forward the project thank you very much thank you and I call on Colin Smith thank you thank you Presiding Officer it's just under a year since the Scottish Government announced the six islands that would be part of the carbon neutral islands project and as Liam McArthur has just said this has been a good debate about that project and I welcome chance to acknowledge the work in not just those six islands but in all 93 of Scotland inhabited island communities is part of a transition to net zero The target of decarbonising six of those islands with a combined population of less than 7,000 is an important target albeit a modest one but I think the real benefit of this project could well come from developing initiatives that could be scaled up to other communities as part of a Scotland-wide journey to net zero and as Mercedes Villalba said if something works for our islands with all the pressures and difficulties islands face then making it work for the mainland must surely be achievable The progress report published yesterday sets out a framework on the carbon neutral islands project and acknowledges the diversity of the six islands Barra, Great Cumbria, Hwy, Eile, Rassie and Yell and therefore the importance of providing decarbonisation support which suits local needs but as Monica Lennon stressed it will be the delivery later this year of comprehensive detailed action plans of how the government and communities will confidently meet the commitment for those islands to be carbon neutral by 2048 that will be so crucial and those plans will need to show how that transition will be a just one The climate change committee's recent progress report to parliament could not have been clearer the cabinet secretary said in her opening comments we were stepping up our efforts with legally binding targets but as the committee highlighted the problem is Scotland lacks a clear plan to deliver on those targets the publication last week of the government's draft energy strategy and just transition plan did little to change that perception it was very much a rehashing of existing policies which we know don't go far enough and the further behind we do fall the less likelihood there is that any transition will be a just one with families across Scotland facing a cost of living crisis a just transition is particularly crucial for our island communities who we know already pay more for basic necessities such as energy and food a really important theme in this debate is the extent to which our island communities suffered extreme levels of fuel poverty and we know that's getting worse Fiona Hyslop said the latest figures from energy action Scotland show that fuel poverty is a shocking 40% in the western ills the average fuel bill there has increased by 240% but according to the western ills poverty action group it's likely that fuel poverty there could rise as high as 80% we know that electricity costs are higher in the islands and that's 60% of households have a dependence on oil boilers for domestic heating there are no homes at all who use mains gas in Orkney absolutely yep yep Alistair Allen I thank the member for giving way and I agree with the points he makes about fuel poverty in the western ills does he think matters would be helped if the UK Government at some point could decouple the price of renewably generated electricity from the arbitrary price of a unit of gas Colin Smyth I absolutely agree with that point and it's a point that we constantly stress to the UK Government because there are no homes using mains gas in Orkney and Shetland and 80% of households in the western ills as Mr Allen knows are off grid as Liam Kerr highlighted there's a lack of clarity however at the moment on what future heating options there will be for many of those households if these communities are to achieve a just transition to net zero then we also need to support them to properly insulate and retrofit their homes as Rhoda Grant highlighted reducing fuel use therefore also cutting bills and cutting emissions so it was disappointing that in the recent budget or in last year's budget the Scottish Government cut the energy efficiency budget by £133 million rather than tackling why there wasn't a higher take up of some of the government schemes and a just transition for our island communities also needs to be jobs led as Mercedes Villalba stressed the proportion of people under the age of 25 in Scotland's islands fell from 28% to 24% between 2001 and 2020 as more and more young people were forced to move away to find jobs the national records of Scotland's statisticians have forecasted population reductions for all of Scotland's islands local authorities will fall over the next 20 years so I wish all those involved in the carbon neutral islands projects well including that the community development officers employed by local steering groups who are joining us today in the gallery and I was particularly encouraged to hear the cabinet secretary say that some of them were young people from the islands who have returned to work on those projects we need to learn I believe from the mistakes of the past when growth and renewable energy production did not translate into growth in jobs the journey to net zero is an opportunity for job creation and skills development right across Scotland with our rural and island communities at the heart of the transition to renewable and green energy not least in what Alistair Allyn described is largely untapped sources of energy such as tidal meeting that jobs potential will need better more reliable connectivity and as Monica Lennon and others highlighted too often to many of our island communities are being failed by the current ferry network transport remains the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in Scotland responsible for more than a third so investment in that ferry network to decarbonise is needed more than ever as Rhoda Grant and Liam McArthur rightly highlighted and on island communities themselves a car is often a necessity not a luxury so Liam Kerr was right to highlight the importance of making electric vehicles and charging points much more accessible and affordable the climate change committee has said that Scotland needs 30,000 charging points by 2030 but the government still has no plan to deliver that Presiding Officer Labour will be supporting all the motions and amendments today the carbon neutral islands project is an opportunity for Scotland to demonstrate that we can deliver a truly just transition to net zero albeit on a modest scale but on our islands and across Scotland we need to ensure that transition not only meets our climate targets but it is a just transition that tackles fuel poverty and delivers economic security for all our communities Thank you and I call on Jamie Halcro Johnston Thank you Presiding Officer I'm delighted to close for the Conservatives after what's been an interesting debate and one which has highlighted the role our islands are playing in driving decarbonisation and also the ongoing opportunities they have to be at the forefront of efforts Like colleagues I'm slightly confused still by what the SNP have found that they can't support in the amendment but we will be supporting all the amendments today and the Scottish Conservatives fully support the ambition to help Scotland's islands to become carbon neutral but what we must see and which islanders will expect is that that ambition is backed up with practical steps and support by the Scottish Government going forward because as my colleague Liam Kerr highlighted we know that this Government is good at setting targets and talking about climate change not so good at delivering on them and as an islander myself I've seen commitments to islands come and go the islands bond was hailed by ministers then dropped we've seen promises on reduced ferry fares made and then forgotten and even the islands act with its commitment to consider the impact of legislation on islands communities is viewed with let's just say some skepticism about at least some in the islands and of course my colleague Jamie Greene as well five of the six islands which make up the project a part of my islands and islands region and one of them Hoi sits just across Scaperflow from my own home in Orkney and I can watch the Hoi head ferry travel across the water and she's a vital lifeline link for residents of Hoi but she's also part of the problem because she's coming up to 30 years old and as Liam McArthur Liam Kerr wrote a grant Jamie Greene and others have highlighted one of the greatest contributors to carbon emission on the islands are ferries they use millions of litres of fuel a year and in a freedom of information request that bit just wish it put in it was shown that in just three years on just three routes in Shetland nearly 18 million litres of fuel were consumed and we know that nationally the SNP are further away from their own commitments to ensure 30 percent of Scotland's state-owned ferries use environmentally friendly technology by 2032 then they were when they made it instead of greening Scotland's fleet the Scottish Government are actually going backwards on lower emission ferries and the problem will only get worse as Scotland's fleet both state-owned and that run by local council gets older and less efficient so the Scottish Government must ensure that a new greener fleet is delivered and while lower emission vessels will have a role to play other countries such as Norway have been operating electric ferries for years and Norway's busiest ferry connection is already served on its 10-mile route by the world's largest electric ferry which can accommodate 600 passengers and 200 cars other countries have ambitions on ferries that we could only dream that this Scottish Government had but of course there's also the opportunity for developing more fixed links such as bridges and tunnels and serious considerations should be given by the Scottish Government to fix links replacing ferries where suitable there are communities across our islands where this would work which would improve social and economic connectivity and they shouldn't be seen as a pipe dream the ferro islands are investing in tunnels and they believe this can play a crucial part in building sustainable communities so I hope the Scottish Government will be more open to opportunities in our own islands yes I thank the member for giving way I have seen the ferro islands tunnels that it refers to would he support the Scottish Government having the same kind of borrowing power that the ferroese Government have to achieve such a thing thank you some of the points being made by the ferroese is that these are essentially direct replacements for ferries and the Scottish Government has a commitment to deliver ferries although as we've seen in the last few days thankfully the UK Government's stepping in and providing the community on ferrail with a ferry coming up so I think that's something we as a chamber should welcome the Scottish Government's amendment says the six carbon neutral islands will demonstrate Scotland's climate change ambitions on the international stage but Scotland's ambition and success is already on the international stage and has been for some years and not to be outdone by Liam McArthur or my Orkney credentials as Liam McArthur mentioned Kirkwall airport in Orkney is home to the UK's first operationally based low carbon aviation test centre with the UK Government through their industrial strategy challenge fund trialling an electric aircraft on routes in the islands Orkney has been the forefront of marine energy development with the European Marine Energy test centre established in 2003 following a recommendation by the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee two years earlier now self-sufficient but previously supported by the UK and Scottish Government as well as the European Commission and Carbon Trust and as Donald Cameron mentioned there's the work of the island centre for net zero and of course as others have mentioned as well the Reflex Orkney this is an innovative project funded by the UK Government that has been doing work that can provide a model for communities on our islands and throughout the country the project is about digitally integrating different types of renewable energy generation in an innovative way that can be managed by the local community and maximise energy use it's about coordinating combining multiple energy assets across electricity, transport and heat and people aren't aware of it and I would very much suggest they go and look it up and I was delighted to welcome Gareth Davis from Reflex Orkney to the recent CPG on islands which I convene and it was focusing on decarbonising our islands and it highlighted how energy usage on the islands differ from that in other places and that the average island household uses twice as much energy as the average UK household but also that even with the work of Reflex Orkney only 15% of total energy demand was accounted for by electricity the other 85% of energy demand was still sourced ultimately from fossil fuels and the current energy crisis has highlighted that need for change and that's especially true in our islands where households are affected to a much greater extent by the knock-on effects of increases in fuel and energy prices and if I can just to very very briefly to the Labour amendment which we will be supporting today we're already an energy rich in the Northern Isles but as Rhoda Grant rightly highlighted too many households are in fuel poverty and not seeing the benefits of the energy generated on their doorstep and that anomaly must be addressed and this is a wider issue than just our islands according to the Renewable Energy Foundation in 2020 constraint payments to onshore wind in Scotland amounted to some 3460 gigawatt hours costing around 243 million and I don't have the latest figures for that but it's still happening and that's public money being spent not to generate energy during an energy crisis Presiding Officer turning back to the Carbon Neutron Islands project I was pleased that the project lead for Yale Reuben Irvine of North Yale Development Council and for Rassie Rosie McInnes were able to attend the recent CPG and I wish them and all the project leads every success and there is already much to build on with Nova Innovations offshore tidal array off Yale powering local homes and businesses since 2016 and Isle of Rassie Hebride and distilleries working towards reducing its carbon emissions by 83% to enable production of whiskey products than a net zero Scotland has 93 populated islands and there is a great scope for expansion but this is about getting it right learning from each other building on the experience from work that's been happening for years in our islands so we support the carbon neutral islands project but our islands are already playing their part in decarbonisation and tackling climate change Thank you and I call on Mary McCallan to wind up up to 5pm minister Thank you very much Presiding Officer I'm really pleased to have the chance to wind up this debate for the Scottish Government today and to have been able to listen to the exchanges I'd like to respond to some of what we have heard this afternoon which has been constructive varied but before I do I'd like to reflect from my portfolio perspective some of the stand-out points of what I think is an excellent project that the Cabinet Secretary her islands team and of course the islanders themselves have been leading Firstly I'd like to touch on our natural environment and its centrality to the challenges that we face As the Cabinet Secretary said the dual crisis of climate change and ecological breakdown are I would say the single greatest long-term threat that we collectively face The scale and the pace of this challenge means that we have to work fast to undo damage and at the same time to build a resilient future and of course owing to the enormity of that it can feel daunting In my job I meet a lot of young activists in particular who despite being utterly committed to fighting climate change and so brave in their pursuits they admit to me of huge feelings of anxiety and of course that's only natural when you're confronted with a task the size that we are and none of us can be in doubt about the seriousness of the problem but the point I want to make is that amid all of that difficulty there is opportunity Of course the opportunity first and foremost and most fundamentally is about salvaging the equilibrium in our natural world and delivering an inhabitable planet in the future but opportunity is also available in the here and now at the socioeconomic level the community level and indeed even at the personal level For example we know that we have to replace fossil fuel demand with zero carbon technologies this means fundamental changes in how we travel heat our homes and in many people's employment this can feel deeply challenging and to avoid the mistakes of the past must be managed fairly something that the Scottish Government is committed to and of course this Parliament legislated for when it underpinned our climate targets with a commitment to just transition but my point is we know there is also opportunity with Scotland's vast capacity for renewables we're able to build green energy systems of the future and much of this is already as has been narrated by colleagues around the chamber it's already and will increasingly be centred in our rural and island communities because not only does this tackle climate change but it can create jobs it can bring us greater energy security and done correctly it can help us to tackle fuel poverty and of course our recently published energy just transition plan sets out our vision for this similarly away from energy into our natural environment we know we have to plant more trees so they can sequester carbon and support wildlife Scottish Government has very stretching targets for woodland creation and for the fourth year in a row we have managed to plant over 10,000 hectares of new woodland and we have exceeded our target for native woodland creation likewise we have to restore degraded peatlands so they too can lock up greenhouse gases and we're investing a quarter of a billion pounds over 10 years to do this we must also protect our waters and our coastlines and the vital blue carbon that is within that but all of this requires land use change which again can be challenging but as with the energy transition also poses huge opportunity again for good green jobs in our island and rural areas and for our communities to benefit from this and I say all of this Presiding Officer because in many ways I believe that our islands and the people who make them home although diverse among themselves they do I think embody so much of both the risk and the opportunity of climate change and I'm sorry the climate challenge and I think much of that is actually captured in this carbon neutral islands project the yes of course Liam Kerr I'm very grateful and I don't disagree with what she's just said at all one of the things that does strike me is that when it comes to the preparation under the report of the carbon audits the action plans and the investment strategies presumably that will require professional help so I wonder what professional help has been identified as being required and when will it be available to islanders minister thanks Presiding Officer I was just about to go on and talk about some of the detail of the audit process I want to firstly respond just by reiterating to the Conservatives who seem to have had a slight issue with this this afternoon but this is community led by the islanders themselves and whether it comes to the amendment whether it comes to detail which many of you have said or many of the Conservatives have said are lacking from what the cabinet secretary has published the point is this is being led by people on the ground right now and they will provide the detail but I accept that yes they will work with professional organisations I don't have the detail of that to hand but I'm more than happy to update him on who communities are working with but I was going to go on to say Presiding Officer that the audit process is exceptionally valuable because it will provide that accurate local information on a multitude of factors from energy through transport housing waste and of particular interest to me land and blue carbon and it will provide that baseline from which to both mitigate the risk and to maximise the opportunity but Presiding Officer having touched on the environment and what I see is the centre role of island communities in a lot of the challenges we face I just want to turn to the other side of my portfolio which is land reform and communities because, as the cabinet secretary said in our public gallery we have some of the community development officers who are funded as part of this project and who are passionately working on each carbon neutral island they are so enthusiastic so skilled and so passionate about their homes they are not only drivers of the project but they are an invaluable resource for their home islands going forward and certainly in the Scottish Government we know that it's our responsibility to continue to foster their talent and their passion so that their islands and actually the project itself can continue to benefit and thrive through them because, Presiding Officer as I said this project is for with and by the community and I think as Fiona Hyslop put it islanders are experts in their own needs and aspirations and I know that the cabinet secretary and I both very much look forward to seeing the results of the action plans later this year yes happy to Jamie Greene I'm grateful to the minister if you cut away all the jargon essentially though we won't get carbon neutral islands unless every household and every island that is on board but that will require being very clear to them about what is required of them and their households in their day-to-day lives could I make a suggestion or recommendation that perhaps we should do a door-to-door drop informing them every person on any of the island six island communities should know exactly what is being asked of them I don't think it'd be terribly expensive to deliver and should be quite simple to deliver but I think that we'd find it helpful minister Presiding officer I think that's a great suggestion because I actually know that door-to-door work has already been done by some of the project officers on some of the islands but that's the granularity that this project is seeking to achieve and of course that local community is very important but the community of which I'm also speaking is not limited to Scotland climate change is a global issue and we do not have time not to collaborate and the carbon neutral islands project recognises this continuing Scotland's long tradition of internationalism by actively engaging with partners in Malta Finland and Ireland and I'm particularly pleased to see that conversations with Vanuatu have been commenced I had the pleasure of meeting the minister for climate change of Vanuatu at COP 27 we held bilateral discussions on the threats that low-lying island communities face and we both took part in a joint press conference calling for action on loss and damage which of course we were both very pleased to eventually see welcomed Presiding Officer if I can I just would like to turn to some of the points that were made in today's debate transport was obviously a dominant theme I'd like to begin just by clarifying something that I said I think was said during the debate regarding the inclusion of ferry emissions within the audit process I just want to confirm that they absolutely will form part of that I think the distinction with inter-island ferries is absolutely that local authorities are responsible going forward but they will still form part of the audit and that's why we're working so closely with local authorities as part of the project another transport theme was electric vehicles and the need for charging infrastructure I absolutely agree with that it is already happening I think Orkney is leading the way and numbers are steadily increasing we recently supported two new stations on Eila through the community-led local development fund and if Cumbria doesn't have enough no doubt this will be flagged up by the audit process that will be undertaken of course the cost of living crisis was another very important theme something that the Scottish Government absolutely recognised particularly the additional exposure that islanders face to that that's in part why we created the £1.4 million islands crossed crisis emergency fund which was an example of the island's act in action I've got to say the fund has gone to local authorities for them to decide how best to help alleviate the cross-crisis some have used it to double the Scottish welfare fund crisis grant of course energy efficiency was also rightly mentioned and we're supporting this through our area-based schemes delivering energy efficiency improvements for households that are living in or at risk of fuel poverty and of course that included an uplift for our island communities yes happy to Liam McArthur I'm very grateful to the minister for taking intervention on that specific point about energy efficiency there has been a concern raised about the upfront capital costs and I reflected in my own remarks about the need to look at more creative financing models and to shift away just from private sector investment or public sector investment to actually ensure that gap between the 33 billion and the 1.8 billion that's been committed by the government can be bridged who should be prepared to look at that thank you I absolutely agree with the member's point as with so much in the climate crisis the costs are I think eye watering would not be unreasonable term to use and the Scottish government very much recognises that the public person cannot fund it alone and I think it was Jenny Minto who made the point that we have to work to leverage responsible private investment and other methods which of course we're turning our turning our minds to a couple of points that Rhoda Grant raised that I just wanted to give her some assurance on she wanted island communities to be at the heart of this that that's absolutely what this project is about I think Ms Grant also made the point about other islands being able to benefit from the process it's absolutely our intention that the learning on these islands picked for their diversity can be replicated in other parts of Scotland and Presiding Officer I realise that time is now against me but I just would conclude by saying that this is a very exciting project with huge potential it recognises how close our island communities are both to the threats of climate change and to the solutions and therefore just how central islanders are to the biggest issues of our day thank you thank you that concludes the debate on carbon neutral islands project first steps towards decarbonisation it's now time to move on to the next item of business which is consideration of two parliamentary bureau motions and I asked George Adam on behalf of the parliamentary bureau to move motions seven five eight five on committee membership and seven five eight six on substitution on committee thank you very much Presiding Officer and moved thank you minister the question on these motions will be put at decision time there are five questions to be put as a result of today's business can I remind members that if the amendment in the name of Liam Kerr is agreed to the amendment in the name of Liam MacArthur will fall the first question is that amendment seven five five eight point three in the name of Liam Kerr which seeks to amend motion seven five five eight in the name of Mary Gougeon on carbon neutral islands project first steps towards decarbonisation be agreed are we all agreed the Parliament is not agreed therefore we will move to a vote and there will be a brief pause to allow members to access digital voting