So yes, this is towards coherence through collective action, laying the foundation for sustainable open infrastructure. And we've got four of us here to talk, and so we'll just go through introductions real quick before we start laying the foundation for the foundation and jumping into it. So Catherine is through unforeseen circumstances as happens, wasn't able to be here in person, but she is joining us remotely wonderfully. And so perhaps Catherine, we could start with you on the introductions and we'll go down the line. Sure, so I'm Captain Skinner. I'm the executive director of the Ejukopia Institute and I am working on one of the projects that we'll be talking about today, several of the projects you would talk about. I'm Morris York. I am the associate university librarian for IT at the University of Michigan Library. After five years, I'll get used to saying that. And I work on a wide variety of the infrastructure and community projects that we're going to be talking about today as well. I'm Aviva Wainraub. I'm the associate university librarian for collections and technologies at Northwestern University, and I too have been working on a number of these projects for quite a long time. Also today is my birthday. Aw, happy birthday. Thanks. We will not sing to Aviva. Are you sure? If someone else can, I will not. I'm Heather Joseph. I'm the executive director of Spark. I have the privilege of working with these folks on the invest-in-open project that we'll be talking about today and also in various aspects of the work that Spark is doing on community controlled infrastructure collaborating with them across the board. Yeah. So to give a, oh, that doesn't want to advance. OK, there we go. Quick overview of what we're going to do today. So we're really talking about three coordinated initiatives. And we're going to set up a general context first and then characterize each one of those three. The three are the invest-in-open infrastructure initiative, also known as ILI, the open platform initiative, and the mapping scholarly infrastructure census. So then we'll do the framing and mission and vision around the entire concept of community infrastructure and collective action, especially this concept of coherence and what that is. Look at the overview of the initiatives and the niche for action, niche for action, whichever you like. And we'll also then go into sort of just open questions. We really would like a dialogue. This is why we've all come is to engage in a dialogue. We were pretty sure that actually there would be probably like five people here because we knew we were up against the UC system in Elsevier. So I will say about our slides. In that context, there are very few pictures and tons of text and very little humor. So there's like the intention behind that is we knew like, OK, maybe people are going to want to read this later and see what the presentation was about. And also we're humorless. And we're humorless. We can't do that. So we're a lot of what we're talking about is on the slides. We're not going to read them to you, but you don't have to read them either because we're going to be talking about them and everything like that. And just a quick context on here. So IOI, invest in open infrastructure is kind of a global view. How do we build global community infrastructure at scale? The open platform initiative is really looking more at the local context. Let's say it's sort of seeded from the US initiatives, looking particularly at North America. What can we do there? When we look at the global scale, and IOI realized very quickly, I think you can't have one thing for the entire globe. South America is not the same as Europe. It's not the same as Southeast Asia or North America and so on and so forth. Open platform really took a look at what is possible when we move into those sort of continental or national perspectives. And Mapele Scali infrastructure really says, well, what have we created so that the other two can start to say, what are we going to do about it? And just a few signs of the times, things that have been happening recently, just in the last few months and last few weeks, in this space adjacent to this space, in the things happening in the commercial sector, and are very important as well. So Lyrisis Endura Space announced their merger and are merging by July 1st of 2019. This is one of the major players in the library market and that many of us are members of, saying looking at one of the umbrellas for the open source projects and saying we're stronger together, we should join together. Also, earlier this year, in the higher ed space, Hampshire College announced that it was potentially insolvent and might not have a fall class and had to contact students and start telling them to prepare for the fact that there might not be a fall class. They announced a desire to merge and turns out that there are long time partners in that, is it four college consortium? Five, it was gonna be four if Hampshire folds. In the five college consortium and the other four looked at them and said, no, I don't think so. So that Hampshire is still looking for a partner to merge with, so that the college doesn't go insolvent. Of course, the UC system breaking their contract with Elsevier, those folks are just upstairs talking about that. Stay here. Yes, you can stay here. And how many people probably didn't notice this in the last few weeks? MySpace made a little announcement. Yes, MySpace is still around. A few weeks ago announced, I think to a lot of people surprised, that they were making any kind of announcement, that they had actually lost all of the user uploaded content from 2003 to 2015. It was gone. So the ironic thing was that about a year ago that all of the content became inaccessible. It was just non-functional. And they said they would fix it. And then they went into a server migration and then they had to make an announcement that it was all actually just gone. It was gone. So it's kind of funny a little bit. I mean MySpace is a little bit of joke of the modern social media world. It's like they're still around. But what if that wasn't MySpace? What if it was like the University of Michigan? Then it might not be so funny anymore, right? So this is just to provide context for the importance of what we're diving into and particularly collective community action. So Heather, if you'd be. My job is to give you a little bit of the overview of the context for again what we're talking about here. And what I really want to say is see last talk and Kathleen Fitzpatrick's keynote for a full context. So just keep it really brief. I mean we all know we've had a steady stream of recent developments ranging from commercial acquisitions of key infrastructure to new policy mandates that have really put the issue of who owns, who controls scholarly communications infrastructure right smack into the spotlight. And it's no secret to anybody in this room that key platforms, tools, systems, ranging from publishing platforms to discovery tools, research assessment systems, productivity tools, you name it, things that are critical to the full research life cycle are increasingly vulnerable to not just commercial provision but exclusive commercial provision. And part of the crux of the matter for us is really that the companies that we're dealing with may or may not share the values of our academic institutions. And our history with many of these commercial vendors has shown that they tend to consistently move more in the direction of locking things up and minimizing competition than moving towards open sharing, which is really the direction that the academic and higher ed community is going in. And additionally, even when projects are open, tending towards open, we're seeing a tendency for those projects to operate in a little bit of a siloed environment, maybe not working together as smoothly or as interoperably as we would like in terms of inconsistent funding, functionality, and goals. So really leading to a need for movement in this space. And... Yeah, Catherine, go for it. That leads me. So yeah, there are a lot of things we don't know. So one of the things that's really challenging right now in the scholarly communications space is just getting our heads around who are the players? What are they doing? What is it that we've created? What are the different motivations for all of these different players and stakeholders that are invested in some way, whether for a profit motive or for other motives, whether you're talking about the scholars and what they're creating or whether you're talking about the libraries and what they're trying to provide access to. Who are all of these players? And how do they interlock or not? Whose interests are being served by the current system and what's left out of that picture? And so particularly looking at the system level of use and not just looking at an individual institution and what that institution is able to provide access to or gain access to, but instead looking across the system, we see that a lot is being left out and that there are some interests being served in ways that actually keep others from being served as well. And then finally, you know, overall, what does landscape look like now and what is it that we've actually created? So these are some of the questions that all of us are grappling with right now and that we can't really move forward until we know. So really these become sort of the key questions. So we say, what's at stake here and what could happen if we don't act? It really becomes the driving question. And there's so many people, so many good organizations participating in this space. And in a certain way, this is like a great gathering point. This is the moment that is calling us together and we have to ask this question of what happens if we don't act. So these questions of who controls the knowledge, what's saved, who gets to say who gets saved, who gets to see what, if it does get saved and on what terms and particularly who decides. And there's an enormous risk particularly, you know, so if we enter into these questions of who gets to see what and it may be the first question becomes those with power and wealth. But what happens to all of the communities and people that are depending on this knowledge going forward and we're talking about a long range of human knowledge moving into the future. Looking at this imbalance that could be created between academy owned and commercial infrastructure. So this privatization of public knowledge. The silent behaviors that we can get into in a global network world. I mean, this is the trend, this is a global trend actually for the last 150 years is towards networks. And it's a severe loss of national and international competitiveness if we fall into the silent behavior that we could be sliding into right now. Increasing waste and redundancy. So we're all highly concerned about our resources, particularly when those aren't used well. But if we look in the commercial sector at very large technological infrastructure projects like say the Obamacare website and national health infrastructure cost millions and millions of dollars before it ever rolled out the door. That rolled forward and is in place today. So waste is not particular to our segment. It's not particularly to what we do. But we have to pay intense attention when we have limited resources and limited capabilities to direct those. And particularly what's at risk here is that we become unable to serve as effective stewards of the scholarly and cultural record. This is what we depend on. It's what our institutions depend on us for. It's what actually the public depends on us for. So the loss of relevance, integrity, trust that can come with that deeply damaging for us. But actually for the public and for the durable progress of humanity. So in a lot of our discussions, many of us have agreed over time that we really need a new way of framing how we might work through this problem. So we've got examples of efforts to point to and work from that have highlighted the gaps and the challenges to creating collective community spaces. Many of us in this room, maybe all of us in this room, have invested in some way in projects like Vivo, Duraspace, Fedora, Deepin, AP Trust, the Software Preservation Network, Sanvera, Fedora, Islandora, TripleIF, I think I said Fedora twice, DeSpace, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, right? So we know that many of our community investors are frankly sick and tired of spending $10,000 here and $5,000 there and what is my money going for and is it paying for this person and why doesn't this community have somebody and I don't understand what's going on and why can't you all just work together? Maybe you've heard that before. So we know that the agencies that have funded our projects are also telling us to look beyond assuming that they will always be there to fund our projects. So as we're moving away from innovation and we're moving toward maintenance, we really need to take this as an opportunity to rethink how we as community investors spend our money as we try to create something that is around supporting sustainability and interoperability. So if you've heard Heather talk about the multi-trillion dollar industry in this room just moments ago, that the content providers are hoping to bank on as they move into the data analytics business, we really do recognize that there is a narrow window for us to construct and support a comprehensive framework for collective action to impact the broader ecosystem at a global scale. So we are trying to approach this from a different angle than we have in the past, right? So we're attempting to embrace this from a truly sort of global perspective. We recognize that we are a series of communities and alliances, some of which are interoperable and interdependent and that we are not going to come up with a sort of collective blanket solution for everything for everyone, right? That I am, nobody is sitting here saying that what works for one community is necessarily going to work for another. That's not what we're talking about here. But we're looking to build a coherence approach where we use the structural elements of our various projects to ensure interoperability and interoperation. And finally, what we're really hoping to do is create a sustainable financial stewardship model to really allow us to reinvest in what we're building and be responsible with the limited resources that we have available. So we're really trying to sort of pull the risk that we have for failure and to manage that investment really thoughtfully. So with that, we'll go through and start looking at these projects in specific, both what's going on with them and how they interoperate. So, Catherine, if you start with the scholarly, mapping scholarly infrastructure. Absolutely. So the context for the mapping scholarly communication infrastructure project really starts off with all of the things that we've just been talking about. It's a slightly audacious project. So I will own that up front. And as a consultant on this project, I definitely warned the PIs that we were biting off a lot in what we were trying to do here. The PIs on this project are Mike Roy and David Lewis. And Mike from Middlebury College, I'm sure many of you in the room know him. And today for David Lewis, who is at IUPUI recently. And what we're trying to explore in this project is really what is the state of higher education and scholarly communication as a system? So really taking that system level view rather than the institution level view and trying to understand how can we move, if not to a completely open system, to at least a system that is significantly more open than what it is right now? How do we move to something that is more affordable, particularly over time? So that instead of the escalating cost that we've gotten so used to, we actually start to see a plateau at least and maybe even see a decrease in cost of scholarship. We recognize that scholarship's never gonna be free, but there does not have to be an exorbitant price tag attached to every piece of scholarly communication. And then we're also trying to think about how to take advantage of the affordances of the digital to really rethink what counts as scholarship and what counts as the scholarly record. So in order to accomplish that, we've got two big project goals, one of which is to map the range of infrastructure that, whoops, go back. Sorry. I'll tell you. There you go, yep. One of those is to map the range of infrastructure that comprises the system of scholarly communication. So as I said, audacious. We're looking globally. We're looking across with open and non-open spaces and we're really looking at all different types of scholarly communication infrastructure, tools, services, et cetera. We're trying to take as broad of you as possible. We've had a census underway over the course of the last couple of months, which I'll tell you about in just a moment. And then we've got a number of other project activities. This is a relatively small project. It's one and a half year of Mellon-funded project. Andrew W. Mellon Foundation generously funded this. And the second big piece of the project will be surveying colleges and universities in order to understand what the current investment practices are for those colleges and universities. And that gives us some of the grounding we hope to understand and interpret both the cost of the system, which the census is helping to identify, and then also what are the investment possibilities that we bring as a community. Before we do the next slide. So the census, our goal with the census is to really try to assess what the strengths and birth opportunities are for different communities and infrastructures and providers across the scholarly communication space. And so we needed a good backbone, a strong backbone to really begin gathering the critical organizational and financial and other types of data that undergird that strength of a community or an organization. And so we built on the Community Cultivation Field Guide, which for those of you who haven't come into contact with it yet, this is an Ejukopia publication from last year that summarizes the last 12 years of our work and really takes the model that we've been using with lots of different communities, not just those that are housed within Ejukopia, but also a broad range that we've consulted with and really distills down the principles and what it is that we're trying to do to help communities mature up over different time frames in different skill sets. And so what we're looking at in the census is really the organizational side of the context in which these scholarly communications, tools, services, et cetera, are being built. Also the technical, the fiscal, the administrative, the governance structures, how community engagement is handled, and then also HR and staffing activities. And what we wanted to be able to do with this census is lay a baseline so that we can start to establish a health index for what we're calling scholarly communication resources, that's SCR that you see on the slide, mainly through the aggregated data. So this is not an attempt to judge individual organizations or individual communities. It's really trying to understand again at the system level like what are some of the things that are predictive and that we can start to encourage groups to do that they may not be doing already. Next slide. So at this point we have run the first iteration of the census. The census was opened from February 18th to March 22nd. We sent it out to invitation only. So we identified about 125, 150, I think, different scholarly communication resources globally that our project team, our advisors, the IOI group, which you'll hear about in just a few minutes, and then JRost, all of us worked together to identify who are some of the crux points within the scholarly communication infrastructure right now. And we invited them one by one to take this survey. So far 45 have responded. That is huge because this is a big undertaking. As anybody in the room who has taken it knows, it can take up to three hours to fill out the depth of information that we're asking for. We've also had indications of interest from 25 others who are 27 others who did not have time to do it within our tight one month time frame, but who do want to be included. And so we're continuing to gather data at this point. These visualizations that you're seeing today are not hot off the press. There's no press yet. This is literally off of the drafting table. So we just normalize the data over the course of the last two weeks, and we're in the process right now of starting to see what the data tell us. So on this slide, what you're seeing is a couple of map views that include some of the content. And there are lots of things that need to be fixed about this, but you can kind of see the positioning of 25 that we've so far worked with. And you can also see in the blue dots on the bottom or the blue colored in the squares, which of the different types of activities, these different scholarly communication resources are engaging in. We've anonymized all the data. Mostly we're gonna be looking at this in aggregate when we do full report outs. So that's why it's anonymized at this point. Go ahead and move forward. So some of the types of things that we don't know right now about the system. One of those things is how fiscally strong and how strong in terms of the VISTA systems that our infrastructure elements are running with, how stable are those? And so this particular graph stood out to me as I was walking through the data over the last couple of days. And this is just six of our respondents and it was chosen randomly and anonymized, but this is pretty similar to what the whole pile of data looks like. What you're seeing here is in each one of these columns, you're seeing one of the scholarly communication resources. So SCR one, SCR two, et cetera. For each of those columns, you're seeing three bar graphs. The first is for 2016, second is 2017, third is 2018. And what it's showing you is the fiscal variance. So how big of a difference was there between what the scholarly communication resource expected to both bring in in terms of income and expend in terms of its expenditures? How big was the difference between what they budgeted at the beginning of the year and what they actually did at the end of the year? And in mature businesses, what we would expect to see is fairly stable near zero amounts, at least most of the time here every year. That's not the trend we're seeing here. We're seeing highly, highly variable infrastructures, which when we correlate that with some of the other information that we're gathering about the different fiscal models, we're gonna be able to shed light on some of the things that make this such a fragile moment for the infrastructure. Next slide. This gives another quick view. And I mean, again, there's three hours worth of data from each one of these scholarly communication resources that we're working through. And so these are just very small glimpses of the types of things that we can show. Again, anonymized. And what you're seeing on the left-hand side is two different organizational pieces. So a succession plan. You wanna know in a scholarly communication tool service, et cetera, what do you do when crisis is? What do you do if leadership needs to change, et cetera? So how many of them had a succession plan versus not? Again, random choice on these 15, but it's pretty indicative of the overall set. And then annual reports. It's another marker of kind of maturity or how much are you sharing and how far are you able to share it? And then we also ask questions about things like the organizational structure and the legal structure. So you can see on the right-hand side, the organizational structure. The first column is standalone. The second is hosted. So you can see that difference between who has broken off and become an organization in its own right versus who is hosted either under someone like at Jocopia or Duraspace or Lyrisis or Clear or who is hosted by an academic institution, et cetera. And then the legal structure delves a little deeper into that. How many are for-profits versus not-for-profits? Are there B-core? What types of forms are we seeing? And next data. Our next slide. So overall, and again, quick snapshots, all of this very rough, but what the census is going to be able to tell us, we think, is a good bit about what we've created and what the landscape looks like today. How initiatives are supported and how stable that support is. And that's both revenue, but also community engagement. We have a ton of questions that related to the types of structures that are in place to support community communications and how often those are being used and in what way. We're also hoping to be able to identify what some of the greatest risks are to the infrastructures that we're supporting today. And we want to identify how we can improve the ways we build and fund tools and services. That's crucial to everything else you're gonna hear about in this presentation. It's one of the really important things that hopefully we're gonna be able to shed some light on. And then finally, can we responsibly use this type of information, particularly when it moves from pilot, which is where this small project is, to something that is more rigorous, more robust and run year-over-year? Can we responsibly use this type of information to actually guide the investments that we make? So I'll hand it back to you. And the kind of work that the census, the kind of information that the census is providing us is definitely helping to inform this second project that we wanted to talk a little bit about today, which is this IOI Invest in Open Infrastructure effort. And against the backdrop that we just talked about, a whole host of international organizations interested in or involved in providing open source infrastructure tool services have kind of got together to develop what's titled a joint roadmap for open science tools when you have heard us reference J-ROS just about a year ago this month. And just to give you an idea of who's involved in J-ROS, like just a small snapshot of the roster, everyone from California Digital Library to ASAP Bio to Crossref to Datasite to Dryad, E-Life, Jupiter, Metta, Mozilla, Orchid, Public Library of Science, just a wide range of international groups who were interested and involved in contributing to this space got together to really try to figure out how to do things in an overtly collective manner. And while the initial effort focused on facilitating technical collaboration and that effort continues, a small subset of the group sort of started to meet regularly to really hone in on and focus in on how we could construct a solution for collective funding of these projects to sustain the infrastructure. And the result of that small group collaboration, that small but growing group collaboration is invest and open. And invest and open is essentially an attempt to create a community led global strategic framework for open infrastructure that will be able to support a viable, diverse, efficient, thriving ecosystem to serve as the stable foundation for SCALCOM in the 21st century. It is, again, when we're talking about these projects, we do have, I think, an audacious vision for the context of the projects. And the mission is really to enable not just for today, but for the future, durable, scalable, and long lasting infrastructure to emerge, thrive, and deliver benefits on a global scale. And the direction that we've kind of taken to do this was to try to create a strategic global sort of framework, which is an interesting kind of label for the collective body that's gotten together with a mandate to facilitate and create a shared strategy and agenda for this collective funding across international stakeholders. And the way that this group is working, I should say, we'll talk in a second about the folks who are involved in this project. It's been a group that's sort of accreted members as we've gone along. And I do wanna point out that so many of the projects that are involved in JROS are able to articulate sort of the desired, the same desired end state for their projects. I think the real power and the potential of IOI is to be able to do this on a collectively across that broad range and that diversity of different kinds of projects. The sort of shared vision is to have that fully formed end to end community owned slash community controlled infrastructure that will support all aspects of science and scholarship in the fullness of the research and scholarly life cycle to provide sufficient funding to not only support the startup, right, the innovation and evolution of these kinds of pieces of infrastructure, but also where the things tend to fall off in the funding cycles is in that sort of mundane day to day maintenance and operation where there's an enthusiasm for providing funding in the beginning and it's really difficult to build the right structures for ensuring the long-term stability of infrastructure. And also really making sure that we have a funding from a mix of sources. There's a tendency in the community and we're all aware of it, that we do these sort of pass the hats to libraries to contribute certain amounts of money and think that going back to that single well for funding or just going to research funders to provide funding for the entire life cycle of an infrastructure initiative, we've seen from our experience it simply doesn't work. So really looking to provide a mechanism for ensuring a diversity of revenue streams and sources of funding is a key element of this endeavor. As I mentioned, I gave you sort of some of the names that are involved in the J-ROS group, the Joint Roadmap for Open Science Tools and many of those folks that J-ROS group is represented on IOI in terms of the group of organizations, coalitions and sort of like-minded efforts who have come together under the IOI umbrella to do this. There's been a lot of conversation in the last year about efforts like the 2.5% proposal. You've heard of, I'm sure, of SCOS, right? The effort to do a large-scale community sustainability structure. All of those efforts are involved in IOI. So this has been an effort to kind of really look and say we've heard the rap time and time again that all these individual efforts kind of spring up, they have different ideas about how to proceed and then we kind of all go off into our different corners and try to come up with funding structures. IOI is actually an effort to kind of put our arms around all of those things and work together from the inception of these ideas to create a structure that might have components of those different projects, but that ultimately creates that kind of robust framework with all of those characteristics and that ideal end-to-end steady state that we're trying to achieve. And it's open, I should say. So it's invest in open and the membership in this particular group is open. So if you know of initiatives or if you're involved in an initiative that would like to be part of the planning process for IOI, it is a wide open group at this point and we would welcome additional participants. Fantastic. Great. So, and to that point, all three of these initiatives in some sense were emerging alongside each other at exactly the same time. We all kind of found each other and was like, you're working on that? You're working on that? Oh, we should work together somehow. Right? These got to connect. Actually, it was at CNI in December and I was walking into breakfast and John Dunn grabbed me and he was talking to David Lewis and he said, wait, IOI is about to have a meeting in New York coming up in January. It was on my birthday. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to come. So all of this stuff is like immensely emergent and happening alongside each other. And so the open platform initiative will talk a little bit about what that is. Many of the folks that have been involved in the conversations about what the potential is here and what it could look like are in the room. So community is showing up already. And we have at this meeting sort of our first drafts of documents that we can now make public to describe some of what this is and some of the ideas that have been incubating. So if you'd like to see and read those, just get in touch with them. They're not out in the wild yet, but they're totally shareable and we can talk about what's in there and look at them and stuff like that. So what is open platform? So here we're moving into the institutional context, right? The academic institutions, the stewards of content. What's that perspective and how do we join that to the picture? So in the fall of 2018, and this was leadership from 16 research libraries, and a lot of this was hallway conversations and connections and we all agree we've got to do something, right? Something is wrong. And we know we've been involved in this for 25 years. We've been building these platforms and things are not turning out the way that we want them to, particularly with the funding, with the coordination. There's different kinds of problems with the community infrastructure projects. And we all rely on them heavily, these 16 institutions to get our work done and to act as good stewards. So this shared sense of an imminent threat, right? That actually this is right now. I mean, if we wait till next year, it's too late. Something has to be done now because everything in this ecosystem, and I'll show a little bit of picture of, like, what the context of the ecosystem we were looking at, that it's reached a level of complexity and scale that it's just simply overwhelmed the capability of the funding and governance structures that we created to handle it. That doesn't mean we created the wrong things. They were fine for when they were created, but the scale has just gotten so big that they're overwhelmed. And if we keep doing the same things, the results are not going to be good, right? So, as James Hilton, my dean says, let's make different mistakes. We'll not keep making the same ones. So really it's this shared imperative that got us together to look at what can we do to take immediate collective action and really stand behind the commitment that we have to promoting sustainable interoperable infrastructure. And the first meeting of this was in December. It was actually the week before Christmas. And as I was trying to... We were recruiting a number of people and I was talking to Tom Kramer from Stanford. It's like, Tom, Tom, can you come, right? He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I'm free.  So that one was in Ann Arbor. We met in Evanston in February. I think it was the exotic locales that had everybody showing up, really. It's the cold. Yeah, it's the cold. So fortunately, there was no... Come for the cold, stay for the infrastructure. Yeah. Oh, I like that. That's going on a t-shirt. You trained me at Spark to come up with these things. So this is a quick... This is part of what we did in gathering that conversation. Is this to say what is going on in these communities? And this data was incredibly hard to collect. It's all on just on various public websites in different formats and you really have to scrape the data. And then it took like 10, 20 of us to come together and create profiles of these communities and how does the governance work and what's in here. And this, to my knowledge, is sort of the first map of really of what's the different funding going in. Who's in there? What kind of governance structure does it have? And we're looking at what stage, right? Early stage, mid stage, late stage, what's the life cycle? How much money total is going into this ecosystem? And one of the compelling drivers behind this conversation, frankly, was the collapse of deep end in the fall. And that shows up as an immediate, wait a second, things are falling apart. Did we do the wrong things? And it's like, no, we didn't do the wrong things. We have to innovate, we have to fail, we have to learn from those, but we have to learn and how do we do that? So just a quick snapshot off of this, which is a fascinating graphic, and if you want to dive into it, we can totally do that later. But one of the things about this was that before deep end collapse, there was about 3.1 million dollars going into this open infrastructure ecosystem. 3.1 million dollars collectively. We're talking from hundreds of institutions. After deep end collapse, probably about 1.9 million dollars. Deep end actually soaked up a lot of investment as a startup. And actually, it would be a shame if we lost what we created with that. We can't do that. It was a big investment over many years. Collectively, just as a point of comparison, HathiTrust, which has also supported 120 plus institutions, has 3.4 million. So before deep end collapse, 3.1 million, HathiTrust, 3.4 million. The problem isn't necessarily that there's not enough money. It's just that it's split up and not very well managed across a lot of projects. Just by way of comparison, ARL institutions, which are a subset of the institutions that use this infrastructure, spend 1.6 billion dollars on collections every year. It's just a point of comparison, you know. But I don't even know what is .00 something percent of that is going to open community infrastructure from hundreds of institutions. So the Open Platform Initiative and this slide I am going to read, because if you've been in some of the leadership workshops, we'll say, right, if you believe something, read it out loud and read it in public and see if you can get through it. So I'm going to do that. And this is coming out of a lot of work of many different people coming together and trying to craft statements to say, what do we believe? What do we know about this space and what can we do about it? So the objective of the Open Platform to create a coherent, interoperable and adaptive ecosystem of systems and services under joint stewardship, resting on a foundation of shared understanding, common purpose and interdependence. It's trying to support usable and dependable technologies, also strengthen the health of the communities that create them and fortify the collaboration of the institutions that use them. Can we show up for each other and can we work together and depend on each other? The purpose to provide value to a diverse community of higher educational and cultural institutions to safely and continuously steward the digital content, integral to academic inquiry, scientific knowledge, and cultural heritage. Doing that by promoting shared capacities and services that enable durability and persistence for content and data, providing usable discovery and access for our users and building and enabling capacities for staff to effectively manage and curate the knowledge stewarded by participating institutions. So the desired future condition from all of that activity through collective action to create an open platform that brings financial, strategic, and institutional coherence to community-built, interoperable, service-driven infrastructure and software projects that support the preservation and access of scholarship and knowledge. And of course, because of what we see and what we have been involved in and what we know is happening, that platform must have an intrinsic, robust capacity to execute, sustain, and scale. Okay, so the open platform is not simply a collection of software and tools. It's a fluid ecosystem, a set of technologies, shared principles and standards that include both open and commercial solutions. So what we are talking about trying to create here is a standard... something that's standards, interoperability, and there's some sort of a certification that goes along with that, that would help to develop and promote interoperability, that documents the various components of the various platforms, and then maintains the alignment with some sort of international standards. We are looking for fiscal stewardship and sustainability, so we are talking about gathering and distributing funding and resources centrally, and then reviewing and evaluating the necessary resources for the various projects that we're talking about funding. And that there will be some sort of structured services, partnership and alliances, which cultivates relationships that works for the whole. To some extent what we're saying is the various projects would still govern themselves, so nobody is coming in and telling them how to behave. And that's really sort of what we're trying to structure, the kind of basic premise of it. So just to give you some idea of who we are, as Morris sort of indicated, we are primarily a group of research libraries that have come together, who have been major supporters and investors of this ecosystem. We are not the only players in this space. We are the ones that were identified as being the heaviest financial investors. That does not mean that as sort of Heather indicated with the IOI conversation, that is not where this conversation ends. We've reached the point where we're opening things up for further conversation and discourse. We're looking for a broad and inclusive initiative, and we're looking for input, and we're looking for other people to be engaged with us in this space. And with that, I just want to say we are open to... Oh, sorry, I missed a slide. Never mind. So within the context of both IOI and Open Platform, we've done a lot of work thinking about sustainability and inclusivity and diversity of thought. But we recognize, as I said, that there is still tremendous room for other voices to be included, a place for further conversation and input, and there is a lot of room to grow here. So we look forward to that as part of our conversation. And with that, we have a whole 15 minutes for questions. And we'll... And to enter into the questions, and this is really part of... This is where community starts showing up. And it's in gathering input and having voices added to the conversation, and adapting and changing, and it starts to become a fluid and malleable thing that we're creating that responds to the needs of the communities. I think a central premise behind all three of the projects that we've been talking here is we can't afford to duplicate efforts anymore. We can't indulge in that. We can't permit it. We can't allow it, or this will collapse. And we have to act together. We have to act in concert. And this is just sort of the fundamental foundation of what we're thinking. Things change, things modify, things always get better. But as long as we can act together, then we'll be moving in the right direction. So with that, and we threw up just a few questions, maybe hopefully people have questions of their own. But this kind of thing, right, these are the kind of questions that are fundamental to these type of community projects. And to start in this day, what do we not know? What do we want to see? We know there are huge gaps. We know there are tons of things that we don't know and lots of blind spots. And calling those into the light and understanding them is actually the only way that we get better. So a few of these questions, other questions that folks might be holding as we're sitting in the room and things that we might want to talk about.


Thank you so much for all of you joining us for another episode of the non-profit show. We are thrilled to have with us the CEO of the League of Education Voters, Lori Hennessey. Welcome and thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. This is great. Yeah. Well, we also want to, of course, share what the title of today's episode is or the topic rather, Networking for Do-Gooders. The Lori has so many things that she wants to share with us when it comes to networking for do-gooders. And I'm going to share that Lori reached out to us just as many of you can to be a guest on our show. And she said, you know, I see a lot in this specific genre, but really not when it comes to networking. And I would really like to talk about that topic. And we said, yes, please, we welcome the diversity of the topics on our show. So I'm really looking forward to diving into this conversation with you, Lori. And of course, we start every episode saying thank you, thank you, thank you from the bottom of our hearts to each and every one of our presenting sponsors that you see on the screen in front of you. If you haven't yet, please take the time today to do so. Reach out to them via the internet or interwebs. I always like it when people say that interwebs, but find them online. Give them a like, thumbs up, some love, some good follow energy. These are amazing organizations that are elevating the good that you do in our community. So thank you for being here with us to support the nonprofit show. And of course, to Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy, for having this wonderful idea now almost 300 episodes ago. And thank you for allowing me to be on this journey with you. I'm Jarrett Ransom, the nonprofit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group. And we, again, welcome back, Lori. And I would love for you to start out by telling us a little bit about the organization and what you do in our community. Sure. So I'm based in Seattle and League of Education. Voters is a statewide organization here in Washington State. We advocate for a better education and it's everything from working on legislation and our state capital, creating community groups, organizing, advocacy, reaching out to the public, doing trainings. It's an exciting and obviously really necessary thing to get people to advocate for better education. And our goal is to make education more equitable for everyone. And right now it's not right now.  So it's it's an exciting thing to do. And I've been there 18 months. And I'm and I'm thrilled to be able to do it because I spend a year or a year. I spent an entire career doing public relations. I started in journalism. I did nonprofits, politics. People always say that my resume is kind of weird because I've bounced everywhere and I loved bouncing everywhere. But I always told people at some point in my career, I wanted to lead an organization that helped kids. So at this point in my life, I'm one of those lucky people who gets up and feels good about what I do and feels like I found my passion in my job, which is all you can really say in the nonprofit world. So I'm pretty lucky, you know, that that is remarkable. And I think your story is something that Jared and I have been seeing more and more. And I think we're going to continue to see that. And it's it's really exciting. We talked a lot about how we have this wave and the shifting demographic of retirement, people leaving the nonprofit sector than we have this wave behind it that should be a little bit stronger, but it will continue to grow. And that is young people coming into the marketplace who have been educated in nonprofit management, which we are very excited about because we see that as only a win win for our for our sector. But one of the things that we are really interested in talking to you about was why we need to know about networking. And it's to me, Lori, it's such a critical time because we're seeing this bleed off of the old talent and then this new talent coming in. So let's start off with what is networking just to kind of get us recentered? Sure. Yeah. To me, networking, I guess I always look at it this way. This the statistics show us and we all know that everyone had a first job. But many of us many of us get to a place in our careers where we forget what it was like to have that first job and how we got started and the humbling feelings in the experience. And more importantly to me, many of us and this one we do know from statistics have lost a job. At some point in our careers, you've lost a job or in some way had a bad job experience. And we don't talk about that as a society. It's something that we just all kind of ignore. So to me, that's the critical piece around networking. It's helping those young people who don't have experience, but maybe even more importantly, helping people who are in career transition when they reach out to you and say, wow, something changed. I'm looking to land somewhere. How do I start? And for all of us, I think that means tapping into our own memories and saying, wow, how did it feel when that was me? And can't I make some time to help this person? Because I've been there and my kids are going to be there. So it's kind of reminding, I think, ourselves on a day to day basis how networking is a very, very important thing. And it's up to all of us to be a part of it. Wow, I needed to hear that. I love how much you I love all of that and what you shared. I lost my first job, not my first job, but the first time losing a job in 2009 with the economic crisis. Ironically, that's also the same year I started my consulting firm. However, I said, you know, at that time, nothing prepares you for unemployment. Nothing prepares you for losing a position. All of the years of schooling that I did, all of my previous networking, all of my previous mentorship relationships, never one of them talked about when you are let go. And this time it was an economic crisis. I say this time because I have several times when I have either ended a position or the position has ended for whatever reason. So thank you for bringing this up and really, you know, just illuminating this topic. So we appreciate it. Yeah, I think it's and I think a lot of this is about stigma. A lot of it is about the fact that we don't talk about it. And then we carry around this kind of sense of shame. I lost a job and I actually wrote a LinkedIn blog about it later that said I was fired and it was kind of about reversing this feeling that we carry around because none of us have linear lines or most of us don't have linear lines in our career. And so to me, networking is being available when people need someone to connect with during that time of transition. And for a lot of kids graduating from college, this is so scary to be joining the workforce and your resumes short. You don't have all the stuff that you feel like you should have on there. Where do you where do you begin? And now that I'm in a generation where I have kids in the workforce, I see so clearly how scary that is for them and their first job. So for me to answer the question, Julia, that you asked, I think the networking question just comes down in two words. And I just realized, I don't know if this is two words or one word to LinkedIn. I think I think LinkedIn is key. I have so many students who reach out to me and their LinkedIn profiles aren't ready to go. I mean, they're either they have typos or they don't they don't talk about some of the valuable stuff that they might not have thought was valuable on the resume. And I always tell people as soon as you can start joining the affinity groups on LinkedIn, get in every group you can. So you start seeing the content and you start sharing the content. And then you learn about all the things like tagging people, thank you, thanking people that, you know, if someone spoke at a conference, thank them. There's just so many things that I know the three of us all see as intuitive that for students coming out of school, they don't see it as intuitive. So when someone reaches out to me, the first thing I do is basically like a LinkedIn tutorial on the phone where I talk through all of these things. But one of the key things with with that is if they don't have a job, they should be volunteering. They should be doing something with that time to build that resume and build it on LinkedIn. And to me, that's the first step when those students and obviously when people are in career transition as well to make sure that you're all polished up and ready for people to look at you and LinkedIn. Right. And, you know, I think it's really great advice because with this changing work environment, work from home, as Kevin Pace, our executive producer is coining WFB work from beach.  And the platform of LinkedIn is really a powerful thing. I think a lot of folks are saying, yeah, the resume, OK, send me the PDF. But really, they're going on to LinkedIn and digging deeper to see what your community is and who you're going to bring along with you. Yeah.  You mentioned in the beginning about the changing workforce and this kind of wave of baby boomers that are looking at changes in the next few years and the millennials behind us. And I talk a lot to people about how the millennial demographic, there's all these stereotypes that people have about the new way of working. But what I have seen in terms of research is that a lot of the values and the approaches that the millennial generation brings at work, Gen Z feels even more. And those those are things around quality of life. Those are things around being able to travel, being able to have a full life, having some sense of boundaries sometimes around your work. And what I always tell my friends who are, you know, I'm a young baby boomer, old Gen Xer, I guess, I always tell my friends who are in my place in life, you know, either I learn how to get along and support and appreciate the growing part of the workforce, or I might as well step aside, because in five years, I'm going to be by far outnumbered by younger people in the workplace. So to me, it's been an exciting time to get to know my staff and my colleagues who are from a different generation and change some of my work habits. I love that you said that. I think that's brilliant. And, Jared, I mean, we are really looking at this recovery. And that's one of those things that we keep talking about is how nimble are you knew you were nimble going into the to the pandemics? How nimble are you going into recovery? Right, because we're not just going back to where we were. Yeah, no one's going back, right? We're going all to the new territory. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. OK, one of the things I can't wait to talk to you about, because I think this is so interesting, is in terms of our conversation today and rules for networking, rules for coffee. Yeah, wow. OK, I'm not good at rules. I'm just going to throw that out there. And just so you know, rules does fit on the slide. But my the title of a LinkedIn post that I wrote about this was Read This Before You Ask Someone to Coffee. OK, OK, OK, that's a lot to fit on the slide. You can find that LinkedIn post. It really went viral. I think it was I do a lot of LinkedIn columns. And I think it was the most popular thing I ever wrote. And it was called Read This Before You Ask Someone to Coffee. And it basically gives people 10 recommendations before they ask someone to coffee. And at the time, you would both think it's so intuitive. I mean, it didn't at all seem like crazy observations to me, but I've heard from so many people who said that they actually read it before they went to coffee with someone and it was a guide. Love it. But, you know, a couple of things were don't cause the person work. If you're going to go to coffee with someone looking for tips, trying to find a job, you can't cause that mentor work. And I used to have people who would come to coffee with me where they'd say, so give me a bunch of ideas of people I should meet. And I would tell them a number of names. And as I was talking, it was horrifying me to notice they were not taking notes. They're just sitting there as I'm talking. And at the end of like 10 minutes, they'd say, great, can you type up all those names and send them to me? Yeah. So that's one rule. Wow, yeah. And one was bring a notepad just for that exact occurrence. Or put it in your phone, right? Like just put it in your notes or whatever. I'm guilty of that as well. I do a lot of note taking, like pen to paper. I love that. But I also just say, will you say that again? And how do you? I just want to make sure I capture it. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, however they wanted to capture it. But the thing was always my realization that they weren't capturing it. Because then I thought someone's going to have to write this up. Like when you're in a restaurant and the waitress asked like from the orders for eight people at your table and she doesn't write a single thing down. And there's so many waitresses to say that's totally doable. But some of us are stressed out the entire time. Why aren't you writing this down? Yeah, yeah, me too. And I was a horrible server for that reason. I would get back there and say, oh, my gosh, I totally forgot someone's order. And then I would have to do the rush order with the chef. And I didn't last long in that industry. Those are the rules for coffee. I like this. Yeah, so there's there's the thank you notes, which, you know, that's that's part of a genteel sort of culture. Some people think that's something that's in the past. But the reality is that so many people who are in hiring decisions do believe in thank you notes. So as long as we have people in those positions that do believe in thank you notes, I encourage people to do thank you notes. So there's that one already right here. So I branded mine for me, but growing up in the South, Emily Post etiquette was like that book was on my nightstand. I kid you not. I I do this and I love receiving them as well. Yeah, yeah, me too. And another one that I always talk about is the the the idea of when you go to one of these meetings, know your ask, know what you want. And so like some people will come to a meeting and they'll just kind of, you know, oftentimes they're beaten down. It's been a long period. It's been a tough period.  And I encourage people to do their homework. So they come into that meeting and they say, hi, I looked you up. I saw that you're connected to someone. So organization, that's one where I'd like to meet someone. Do you have any ideas? Come into the meeting with some sense of doing a little research ahead of time and then actually know, here's what I want from you. Can you give me three names of people that I could meet? Just have your ask ready for that 15 or 20 minute coffee, because a lot of people don't have more than 20 minutes. So I have a question. And again, I told I warned you, Laurie, like none of this is scripted. It just comes like it just sometimes it flies out of my mouth. My schedule and as I say this, I feel I feel pretentious as I'm saying it. OK, but again, I have a feeling others are thinking the same thing. My schedule does not allow for coffees and for people to pick my brain, right? Like I'm in a place where my calendar, just the commute, right, is inconvenient. Are these rules for coffee, if you will, or read this before you ask someone to coffee article? Are these applicable to a telephone call? Oh, totally, totally. Meeting totally. Yeah. And and I would say, obviously, in this crazy year we're in now, everything is on the phone, right? But in the normal world, I live on I live on an island near Seattle. And so my coffees have become phone calls because I commute two hours each way in normal times. And and I will just book people in for half hour increments and we're sitting there and talking. And it's the same concept. It's the same idea. It's more coffee as the metaphor of someone reaching out. Thank you. Thank you. And for that, too, I might just want to eliminate that I'm noticing it has become very culturally norm for others to say, including me. Here's my calendar link. I would love for you to go ahead and take the initiative to schedule this coffee, right? Yeah. Whereas I feel like, honestly, a couple of years ago, I felt super rude sending that. Like, pointy, pointy, like, who am I, you know? I will have this calendar link. But now it's like we all have this calendar link. It's growing. It's growing. Yeah. The first time I got like a Calendly thing, I went, whoa. What's happening? Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you for that. Now, I know I feel like we need to move to the next slide because I know we have a couple of things that we don't want to miss. But I personally am going to check out this LinkedIn article. So I wouldn't be shocked, Laurie, if you see like a spike in viral share of that article, I know I'm going to to read it and possibly share it as well. Talk to us about equity when it comes to networking for do-gooders. Yeah, I just feel like equity is is the question now when we talk about networking, because I think so many people now see networking as a playground of connected people. So, you know, when my daughter graduated from college, I was making introductions to people that I knew in the field and all of us do that. And I would like to think even before the last year that we've been through in terms of our own reckoning around race, I would like to think already we were starting to talk about the downside of networking, the downside of people all getting jobs because they know each other because it leaves out so much of our country. And so what I'm now trying to look at is ways that we can do networking in a more equitable equitable way. And one idea I've come up with anyone can be open to helping people. So if you were to put on LinkedIn, are you graduating and are you looking for 10 minutes to talk to someone about what's out there in our community message me? I'd be happy to hear from anyone and give you 10 minutes of time. And anyone can do it. They don't have to know you. They don't have to have their parents know you. It's something that's open to people besides those we know. I think every time you help network someone who you met through a friend or a relative, you should try to find someone to network who you would not have otherwise known. So that's that's one of my personal goals, but it's it's something that's very important. I accept that challenge. I know you didn't challenge us, Laurie. I accept that challenge. And Julia, I'm challenging you right now. Publicly, would you also be willing to make that post? Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, this is a part of what I do morning, noon and night. I've always been a great connector. But, you know, when the way you just phrased it is, yeah, it's within my community or my social circle of people that I know. And I think you feel more empowered and more secure to do that. But the value and the being valiant in that process is for somebody you don't know. When one place one place where I've found a lot of a pathway to reach that community is through schools. So I do a lot of talking to classes about networking, where I'll go to some class and say some of the things we've talked about. What I have found is that it's a bit of an equalizer because after the class, I will have a lot of students reach out to me through LinkedIn. They don't know anyone. They just took a class. And to me, the the challenge in that is that some of those people who reach out to network with me are just so well qualified, where they have four or five jobs and they've done everything and they're together and some people are at a real different part on that continuum. So I have to sometimes take a deep breath and know that part of being that mentor is to slow down sometimes or to adjust what I'm expecting sometimes, because not every person looking for help is at the same place. But to me, that's very fulfilling to find students who reach out for that too. Perfect. Thank you. If that's your first one, I'm curious what the others are. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of first rule of equity, you mean? Yes. Yeah. I mean, I would say so the first one would be students. And then, like I said, putting the post and asking people to come to you. Another thing I'm finding is there are some groups where you can find people who are looking to get into the nonprofit world like there's one in Washington, it's a Facebook group. I'm sure every state has these kind of Facebook groups that support oftentimes women, oftentimes people of color who are looking to get into the organizations. So what I do now is when I have a job opportunity or a volunteer opportunity, I make sure and share it on networks that are different networks than where I've always been before. They're different networks. And I encourage people to come in and find those communities very, very deliberately. So that's also part of networking that I think we need to work on is advertising our jobs and finding people in different places. Yeah. I think it's being aware of it. I mean, I had and tell we were getting ready to chat with you. I had never thought of this of the issue of equity within the issue of networking. And it seems to me that we spend a lot of time in our world or I should say I do teaching young people that want to come into our profession just how to network and what to do and how to behave. And and some of these like very introductory things that in my mind, they should have been taught in college or in school. But they're not. And so then it's really, really hard to even get to that point where you can even get to the same starting line because you're so like, what? I mean, as a young kid, unless you have somebody that can pull you along. And it's really hard because we haven't had the nonprofit sector really organized in a professional way like this. There are some of the groups on LinkedIn that I have found and joined have some great dialogue on these issues. There's a couple of women's kind of focus groups on LinkedIn that I found a couple of those that are focused on nonprofit marketing. And I really like having some of these dialogue groups that you can go to to talk about this. And I'm seeing more and more people actually do this. Hi, I'm available if anyone's wanting to meet me. Here's I think it's a nice. I feel like we're in a place as a culture in the nonprofit community that we're all becoming aware of how fortunate many of us have been. I know I'm very much aware of that. And as you become more and more aware of that privilege, I think there's this need to to do better at at bringing the folks in behind you. So it's an exciting time, I think. I love it. I love it. And I love that we're having this discussion, given as Jared mentioned, you know, we are in the time of graduations from high school, from college. I mean, it's really, really the right time to be having this discussion. And as we go into recovery, you know, Jared, think of all of the different people that have come on recently from everybody from, you know, Katie was staffing boutique to nonprofit HR talking about how hard it has been or it's going to be to find this labor ready to go. Absolutely. Absolutely. This is such a timely conversation. And again, for those of you watching live or recording, so appreciative of Laurie reaching out to us. Any of you can do that, or you can also, you know, recommend someone to be on the nonprofit show. But Laurie noticed a need for this conversation on the show.  Honestly, and I know you didn't challenge us, but I wanted to, like, take the challenge wholeheartedly. I'm all about elevating other people, being of service, right? Like, that is just my jam. That's what I'm about. So Laurie, CEO of League of Education Voters, I just, like, I just want to breathe in so much gratitude and just say thank you. Thank you for reaching out to us. Thank you for all that you do. The organization is lucky to have you 18 months new with that organization. Phenomenal. So thank you so much, Laurie. I'm going to look at your read this before you ask someone to coffee. And I just loved everything that you talked about. So would welcome you back, of course, another time, because this was just really insightful. Thank you. This has been really wonderful to talk to you both. And you really energize me on a Monday. Good. Well, when I leave my studio and get back to my office, and I'm going to do what you said and offer, you know, a connective point for for somebody that wants to talk about our sector, because we need that. We need to be building greatness and excitement and bringing people into our sector. We need it as a community. We need it as a nation. And we have this talent coming out of schools and talent that's shifting within the American population that wants to serve. You know, if anything, these pandemics have taught us that a life of service can be a very, very good life. And so this has been just amazing, Laurie. Really, really cool. Hey, I'm sure what a great way to start the week. I want to thank you for for being with us as always and with me. We are coming up just a note on our 300th episode, which will be celebrating Friday. And so look for for that, because that's going to be a lot of fun. Again, we want to thank our presenting sponsors without you. We would not be here having this conversation. And Laurie is just one of many folks that have come on. I think I figured out, you know, we've had like over 250 guests. Wow. So think about it.  And Laurie is just a prime example of that. So thank you to our sponsors. Wow, a great way to start the week, Jared. I'm excited. Yeah, I know. I want to go into LinkedIn right now. One, read your article and to make that post, I think that's really wonderful. Ironically, later today, I am a podcast guest talking to or sharing the topic about how professionals might want to change their career into the nonprofit sector. So I wrote down some of these things and I have a feeling they might come up again in conversation and just so grateful for you to bring this again to light and to illuminate these ways and to introduce equity into networking. Thank you. Amazing. It's been great. Well, hey, everybody, as we like to remind everyone. Stay well so you can do well. We're going to see you back here tomorrow. Have a great day.


There's just one way to handle the killers, Ms. Boilers, and that's with the U.S. Marshal and the smell of gun smoke. Gun smoke. Powering William Conrad, the transcribed story of the violence that moved west with young America. The story of a man who moved with it, Matt Dillon, United States Marshal. Is this everything, Chester? Well, there might be more later when they finish sorting the mail. Hey, where's that telegram? Oh, what telegram? I thought I'd put it right on top. Let me take a look. Here it is. Might be important. Oh, we'll soon see. Up in Abilene? Yeah. What'd you say, Mr. Dillon? Peters and Gridler headed for Dodge. Keep them there, but don't arrest them until I get there with murder witness. Or I'll write Washington all I know apart you. Signed Hickok. Then Mr. Hickok's coming here, huh? That's what he says. Well, how do you recognize those two men, Mr. Dillon? I expect I'll recognize them all right. Oh, you know them? Yeah, we've met. Peters and Gridler are gunmen, Chester. The kind who kill as easy as most men shake hands. Just about as often. Too bad you can't just put them in jail. Yeah. Well, we'll start meeting the trains. There's one in at noon, sir. Good, then we'll meet it. What do we do if they are on this train, Mr. Dillon? Nothing, Chester. I'll find them later and talk to them, but not in a crowd like this. Yes, sir. You know, every time I see a train I am just overpowered with the urge to travel. Oh? Where to? Anywhere. Anywhere but Kansas. Well, I don't think you'd like it back east any better. Why not? You just have the urge to come out west again.  I suppose you're right, sir. But still it'd be good to walk down a street that wasn't all heat and dust and that wasn't crowded with a lot of grimy men looking for trouble. And I wouldn't mind seeing some women. Married women. With kids and parasols. Wait a minute, Chester. There they are. They just got off the end car. Those two headed for the depot there. One of them saw? Yeah. Those teeters in the black hat. The other's gridly. I'll just step around the corner here and see which way they head. There they are. Yeah. Looks like they're going to the Dutch house. Now let's follow them. That's where they're going, all right? Yeah, let's wait here. I'll let them get a room and then I'll go talk to them. But if you can't arrest them. And I'll just try to make them feel welcome to stay in Dutch. When do you think Mr. Hickalk will get here? There'll be a couple of days anyway, Chester. Look, right now I want you to go back to the depot and ask the ticket agent to let me know if teeters and gridlers start to leave any time. You can describe them to him. All right, sir. Then go to the stage office. Yes, sir. And go to all the stables too. If they rent or buy any horses, I want to know about it right away. I'll tell everybody. Also tell them to keep quiet about it. I'll be back at the office later, huh? All right, sir. What can I do for you, Marshall? Two men came in here just a minute ago. One of them was tall. Black hat. Well? Well, what, Marshall? You were here. Did you see them? Those were gunmen, I could tell. The tall ones, teeters, and the other ones, gridlers. Those were the names they gave you? Yes, but there'll be trouble if you try to arrest them here, Marshall. Can't you wait until they're outside in the streets someplace? No. What if they're after you? I've got nothing to do with men like that, Marshall. There's no reason in the world that they... Now just take it easy. I've never heard of you and I'm not going to arrest them. But since you're a good, helpful citizen, maybe you can tell me what room they're in. Certainly, Marshall. Certainly. Number 25, up the stairs and turn to your left. Thank you very much. But you're gone away, gridler. I just came for a little talk. And make your talk, Marshall.  Let him in. He's watching better inside anyway. Hello, teeters. What's on your mind, Marshall? I'm just trying to think. The last time I saw you, a man was in... Let me see, was it Tascosa? Never mind all that, Marshall. Why are you here? No, I heard you were in town. I thought I'd drop by and say hello. News and his travel pretty fast and dodged.  Well, maybe he was expecting us, gridler. I happened to be at the depot. I noticed you get off, so I followed you here. All right. But we're not wanted, Marshall. Matter of fact, a judge up in Abilene just turned us loose. Wasn't no witness to that killer. While Bill tried to frame us, but didn't work. Well, that just goes to show the law is fair to everybody, doesn't it? Why'd you come here, Marshall? Just to let you know that I'm still the law and dodge and that I don't want any trouble here. With men of your sort, I always like to mention that. We're not looking for trouble. Good, good. And you're welcome to stay here as long as you like. That's a funny thing to tell us. It's an open town to you. Yeah, sure, Marshall. Sure do. And I'll treat you too, just like anybody else. See, if you stay out of trouble, the town's yours. Anybody who starts trouble won't be yours. Well, I'm glad to hear that. I'll be going now, gentlemen. Oh, uh, there are some pretty sharp gamblers here. Don't let them take all of your money. Well, don't you worry about us, Marshall. So long. There was no way of figuring how long teeters and gridler might stay in dodge. If they took a notion to do some gambling, it might be a week or two or they might move on in an hour. That night, however, they were still in town bucking pharaoh at the Aleph Regensin. Everything looked fine until Chester came into the office above 10 o'clock. They're fixing leave, Mr. Dillon. First thing in the morning. Oh, how do you know? Jim Bunch at the stage office. He just told me he came in and paid their fare to Sharon Springs on the morning stage. Sharon Springs, huh? And then they're headed for Denver. Looks like it, sir. All right, Chester. Go tell Jim that I'm going to be on that stage tomorrow, too.  I'll tell him, sir. But are you going all the way to Denver? I'll follow him all the way to San Francisco, if necessary. You can tell Hickok that when he shows up. Too bad he won't be here before they leave. And it'll be another day before he can get here. But that won't be too far behind us. Uh, stage leaves at eight, right? Yes, sir. I'll be there to see you off, Mr. Dillon. Fine. We'll meet at the Dodge House for breakfast, if you like. All right, sir. The stage looks like it's all ready to go, Mr. Dillon. Yeah. I don't see Teters and Gridler, though. They're not inside, are they? I don't think so. No, they're not here yet. Just about eight o'clock. They should be here. Well, it doesn't matter, Chester. If they've changed their minds, it's all to the good anyway. Want me to go ask Jim Buncheke he's heard from them, Mr. Dillon? Uh, no, no, let's just wait here. Oh, say I forgot to tell you. Jim said the regular shotgun messenger has to go up to Sharon Springs anyway, but to thank you, just the same. No, good. Chester. Yes, sir? Look, up at the other end of the plaza there. Coming this way. Oh, I declare it's him. Yeah. Now, what are they up to, I wonder? Well, they can't be taking the stage if they're horseback. No. Looks to me like they're fixed for a long ride, too. Sure does, Mr. Dillon. Stop early, Marshall. Yeah. So are you, teeters. It's cooler in the morning. Now, for traveling, it is. So long, Marshall. What's the matter? Did you lose all your money last night? Hell, you're advised. So long. Chester, you stay here and explain things to Wild Bill. I'll be on their trail as soon as they're out of sight. I'll get my horse. You can tell Jim I won't be taking the stage. All right, you. I'll leave it clear a trail for Hickok as I can. Yes, sir. I'll tell him. He will return to the second act of gun smoke in just a moment. But first, young women are needed to enroll as student nurses and to take their places as graduate nurses in an ever-expanding field where opportunity unlimited awaits. Older women should seek careers as practical nurses where fine living and fine working conditions are in prospect. Ask at any hospital at the nurse's registry desk or at any qualified school of nursing. And now, the second act of gun smoke. I did my best to stay out of Teeters and Gridler's sight. But if they had suspicions of being followed and were watching their back trail, it would have known I was there all right. The land was flat, and we frequently crossed great patches of powder-dried dirt that smoked the air with dust under the horse's feet. After an hour, they began to swing slowly north. And by noon, it was clear that for some reason they were riding in a great half-circle. They'd left Dodge headed west, and sure enough, just after sundown, they rode back into town from the east. I waited until dark and then came in. Put my horse up. The office was empty, so I walked up to Delmonico's where I found Doc having suffered.  That's been a long time since breakfast, Doc. Oh, man ought to eat three meals regularly, Matt. You gotta run down if you don't. Yeah, sure, Doc. Only sometimes you have to eat when you can. Oh, I thought you had a hard day, Matt. Yeah, I've been riding, Doc. Riding around in circles. Oh, is that what the government pays you for? Oh, I'd like to have your job. I'd be too sure of that, Doc. It isn't always this easy. Yeah, I know, Matt. Just tell me. What happened? Did you lose them? No, I didn't lose them. As a matter of fact, they're coming in here right now. Huh? What do you mean they're coming in? Those two? Yeah. They're pretty hard-looking cars. They are. Evening, Marshal. Oh, hello, Teeters, Griddler. Marshoom. This is Dr. Adams, gentlemen. How are you? Well, what's on your mind? You are, Marshal. What? That was you trailing us all day, wasn't it? Yes, it was. Why? I didn't want you to get lost. That's a lie. Then let's say that I didn't want you to get into any trouble. You're going to tell us what it's all about, Marshal? Well, you're not exactly the most reputable citizens in Kansas. And I just wanted to have an eye on you, that's all. You sure do. And just like I told you, you keep out of trouble and you're welcome to stay here. Just remember one thing, Marshal. There's two of us. And next time you follow us, you might not come back. We're taking chances like that's part of my job, Mr. Teeters. That's a poor job. Yeah, sometimes I think so, too.  Well, they're not very polite, are they? No, but they're smart. Smart enough to figure something's wrong anyway. Well, you think they might bolt, man? That depends on how smart they really are, Doc. Right now they're so curious they might stay around just to see what it's all about. What are you doing? Oh, hello, Chester. Pull up a chair. Pull up a chair, Chester. I won't have time. Hey, we better get right over to the beef pole. Oh, why? What's happened? Well, sir, I saw him right back in town. The first thing they did was go to the beef pole and ask about a train. Oh, were you there? No, sir, the agent came and told me like he'd promised. The train goes at 7.30, doesn't it? Yes, sir. And it's just about that now. I've been looking everywhere for you. Doc, if that waiter ever does come around and tell him to hold a stake for me, will you? I might just be back for it. Yeah, sure, Matt. Yes, sir. And good luck. Yeah, thanks, Doc. Come on, Chester. Are you going to go on the train with him, Mr. Dillon? Pick up sure to be here in the morning, Chester. I can keep him off this train tonight. I doubt they'll try anything else or tomorrow. Yeah, but you can't arrest him. Yeah, I know. Well, then, Matt... I'll just face him off it, Chester.  Yes, sir. Now there they are. Come, just to say goodbye, Marshal. Not exactly, Chester. Oh? You can take the train tomorrow if you like, but not this way. Why tomorrow? Well, I've got orders to keep you in sight till then. Orders from who? It doesn't matter. But you have your choice. You can have the run-or-dodge tonight or you can spend it in jail. I know you talk pretty loose, but just one man, Marshal. Your friend there doesn't look like a gunman. Well, now you can't always tell by a look, Mr. I can't. You said you didn't want trouble, Marshal, but you sure are starting it. There won't be any trouble.  What if we don't?  You can die that way, Marshal. Maybe. But you won't both get on that train. Great life. You know me. You know I'll do it. We can still make a great life? No. It's not worth it. We can go tomorrow. Tomorrow, it'll be different. Yeah, sure, sure. Tomorrow, it'll be different the next day. But as I figured, Pickock didn't get off it. I questioned the man who rode the baggage car.  Soon as the crowd left the depot, we walked down to the car. Crawled under it, potted on the door on the other side. It's Dylan, Bill. Open up. Jump up, man. Come on, Chester. This is Chester Prott for now. How do you do, man? Sam, come over here. This is my witness, Sam Trimble. Howdy. Mr. Trimble, are you still here, Matt? Yeah, but we better move fast. Matt, that judge up at Abilene's crazy, but he's still the judge. And he says Trimble here has to identify Teeters and Gridler before I arrest him this time. But Bill, they can't be tried twice for the same crime? I know that, Matt, but I'm after him for a second murder they did. I'd suggest we just go kill him, but I've been waiting a long time until Bill hung and by glory I'm going to do it. You will, if you're lucky. Tell me, Mr. Trimble, do these men know you on site? Well, I'll tell you how it was, Marshall. I was in this stable where I worked, over in Abilene, that is, and a fella come in for his horse, and I went to get it for him. I heard some shooting, and then two men ran right past me. I got a good look at them all right. They just killed that fella, too. You mean you don't know Teeters and Gridler? No, I never heard of them, Matt. There's no pictures of them I know of, but he can identify them when he sees them. Yeah, sure, but what about them? Well, they recognize you, Mr. Trimble. Gosh, I don't know, Marshall. I hope not. They'd kill me on site, wouldn't they? I hadn't thought of that. Well, you just do what we tell you to, and you'll come to no harm, Trimble. Bill and I are a fair match for those two. If they start any trouble, we'll be on them so fast they'll die on their feet. No chance. I hadn't thought of that. Easy, Trimble. Easy. An hour from now we'll have them in jail with their teeth closed. I sure hope so, but how are you going to do it? Just go find them, that's all. Soon as we get them locked up, I'll buy you the biggest steak you ever ate, Trimble. Come on, let's go. I took Hickok and Trimble over to the Texas trail where we decided we'd wake while Chester located Teeters and Gridler. Then we just walk in on them and get it over with fast. I introduced the two men to Kitty and we ordered a couple of drinks for Trimble who was getting jumpier by the minute. What are you two heroes doing, getting this poor man drunk enough to fight him? Not exactly, Miss Kitty. He just lacks faith in us, that's all. I wouldn't have come if I'd thought about it. I sure would. Look, Trimble, it isn't often a man there's both mine and Matt Dillon's guns behind him. You're as safe as you'd be in church. I don't go to church. Here, Mr. Trimble, have another drink, huh? I will in a minute. I'm going out back first.  Well, I'll admit he usually leads a quieter life. He'll brag big, though, once he's back in Abilene. Tell me, Bill, do you plan to stay in Abilene long? I don't know, Matt. Charlie Utter keeps talking to me about Deadwood. Oh, it's as dusty up in Deadwood as it is in Kansas. Yeah, I know, Miss Kitty, but Charlie thinks some of that dust is made of gold. What's that? I don't know, but I'm going to find out. I'll go with you, Matt. All right, stay in here, everybody. I was just crossing the street. I thought I'm going out of the alley there. All right, come on. The shot... I was going to run away. And he got scared and ran right into it. We shouldn't have let him alone at all. They saw me with you, Mr. Hickock, and they said that that's all they needed to know. Then they shot me. Kester, who killed that fellow in Abilene? You recognize them all right? No, I saw these two before. It wasn't them. What? No, it shouldn't have come. I got killed for nothing. He was a witness to some murder they did commit. Well, anyway, they'll hang for tremble now. Let's find them before they get out of town, Matt. We'll find them even if they do. Hickock and I walked out of the alley and into the plaza. There were a couple of citizens who'd heard the shooting and had seen Teeters and Gridler run out of the alley. Telled us that they'd gone into the Dodge House. And we followed. From the look on the clerk's face as we went past him and up the stairs, I knew that they were in their room. When we reached it, Bill stood on one side of the door. And I on the other. I think they'd fight, man. I told you they'd follow us, Teeters. Well, we're trapped sure.  And it got us to the street on the wall. Open the door. Throw your guns out. There's no use trying to fight. There's no use in hanging neither, Marshall. It can just take us the best way you can. No. Our chance hanging. We got off once. Can't even get away from that door. I've listened to you enough. I ain't facing Dylan and Hickok both now. Teeters, you shouldn't have... His nerves blasted him. Shooting was too good for these two. I wanted to see him hum. How things don't always work out, Bill. Not lightly, anyway. Matt, I think I'll go up to Deadwood with Charlie out of right soon after all. Maybe I can find me a little peace and quiet. Gun smoke transcribed under the direction of Norman McDonnell stars William Conrad as Matt Dillon, U.S. Marshall. Tonight's story was specially written for gun smoke by John Meston with music composed and conducted by Rex Corey. Featured in the cast were John McIntyre, Lawrence Dobkin, John Daener, Joe Duvall, and Harry Bartel. Parley Bear is Chester, Georgia Ellis is Kitty, and Howard McNeer is Doc. Gun smoke is heard by our troops overseas through the facilities of the Armed Forces Radio Service. Join us again next week as Matt Dillon, U.S. Marshall, fights to bring law and order out of the wild violence of the West in gun smoke. We have never known peace or plenty. Their lives have gone from bad to worse. Now their future is in our hands. Without help, they cannot live. We can send them food through care of the American package sending relief agency. Send your contribution to care's local office to care New York or care Los Angeles. This is Roy Rowan. This is the CBS Radio Network.


This study found that foreign-born migrant children in New Zealand had lower vaccination rates compared with NZ-born children, highlighting potential challenges around immunisation data and engagement with immunisation services for migrants. The study also noted successful engagement of Quota refugee children as part of NZ's refugee orientation programme. This article was authored by Nadia A. Carania, Janine Painter, Aria Seely and others.


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I'm very happy when I'm singing and I said, this is what I do, this is what I love. I have a lot of dreams now because of my music, of what I'm doing. I just want to get into all of the hearts around the world. The industry in the U.S. is separated and of course for the future I want to be the Latin singer for everybody. I think that's the hardest part. I was about four or five years old and I saw that music for the girl was very important. Carol saw my reflection musically because she was the daughter who followed my footsteps. My father, he always wanted to be a singer so he was very happy. And my mother started crying and she said, you are going to make the same mistake as your father. Papa la apoyaba y yo era la cortante. My mother was very, very upset. My sisters, they were like, no Carol, no please, no again, but it was my dream. I have been in this industry for 12 years. In Colombia it was very hard for me to get into radio stations because of the kind of music that I choose.  So it was very, very hard. I think it was the hardest part of my career. I remember one day somebody took my CD and told us, do you see something? Here, it's a girl singing reggaeton. That is not going to happen. I know she wants to take over the world. There's not too many female acts, especially in her genre. And she sees that. Carol represents a new school, a new hybrid of artists. She's one of the few artists that can actually sing and rap. I'm not alone, I'm your pure, I'm your poison, I keep looking for the rules of the game. Believe me, brother, I'm going to choose you.  And you got one guy as a singer and one guy as a rapper. Well, Carol is a female act that can actually do both things. Coming from where we come from, in Colombia, and being able to, you know, splash some of the fresh sounds and textures of what's going on today, I think that's what's going to make it that much more special. Nobody in the United States knew who I am. So now they see the numbers on YouTube where they see that something is happening. So they open the door and say, OK, Carol, now you can talk what is happening in Colombia because we are interested. U.S. radio is not easy. She needs exposure. She needs to be in the country. She needs to be doing promotion. She needs to hit single.  I miss my family every day, but I think I have to work hard. I have to leave that for a second and keep going. 40 years ago, everybody was an idol because there aren't a lot of people singing, but now it's a lot of competition, so you have to push harder than before. We're going to radio station, to TV shows. I'm very happy. It's my first program in the United States and people are very positive. If we want to make it, we have to keep going this way. The first time that I knew one of my sons was in the United States, I got out from the airport. I got in the car. It didn't like my son started on the radio station. And at that moment, I couldn't believe that that was happening. It was happening at that moment. When you put the barrier on, you just have to be aware of it. I know it's going to be hard, I know it's going to be hard, but the day a woman achieves it, she achieves it in a triple way because obviously the merits and the honors are more, so I think it's worth it. When I saw her in an event of such great magnitude, I saw her as a total star. People are believing in what I'm doing, so when they see urban music, urban artists, men, men, men, now it's Carol G. Now it's happening, something is happening. Now here in Colombia, I think around the world.