And we're live! I love the way he did the countdown in such a way that it wouldn't show up on the video at all. Very nice to see you Stephen. And you. For those of you who don't know us and have never heard of us, this is Seb Schmoller. Alt C...Guru. I used to work for Alt. I don't anymore. Alt C...Ex-Guru.  Or is it still British summer time? Yeah. So 2pm British summer time, which is 10am Atlantic daylight time, 9am Eastern time, and 5am if we're on the Pacific coast of North America. It's sad that I know that. Yep, I would agree with that. So what have you made of the conference so fast, Stephen? It's been fun. I guess my overwhelming impression so far, with all due respect to the conference organizers, very full meeting was. So I'm not used to being jam packed like that. Because I really, and Martin's in the room, so I can say this, I liked the... See again, the video doesn't tell you the whole story, right? I liked the conference website a lot, and I haven't had a chance to use it at all since I've been here, because when you're in these conference rooms, you're like this. And so I'm sitting there and I'm like this, trying to work, and it's just not conducive to my relaxed online participation. But the talks have been fun. I enjoyed hearing from the student leader, and I forgot her name, but I have it down here. Just for the live TV audience, I do have my cheats here. Rachel Winston from the National Union of Students. Best line of her talk, I sort of chuckled to myself, because it's one of these things. It was something along the lines of, yeah, Student Union was very good with communicating with students throughout the process, and I thought, yes, of course you would say that. But it's interesting, because I've had experiences in student leadership myself. I was editor of the student newspapers and undergrad, and president of the association as a graduate student. And so it was interesting to see her hackle sort of get up on the inevitable questions I'm offering. Are you really representative of students, or are you just some active students who have been given a podium? And with the student association things, it's always a bit of both, right? Because only the activists really become student representatives. On the other hand, it's untrue to say that they're not representative, because there is a process. And as she said, you know, it really depends on the process being a good process, but there is a process. I had the same issues, and the way I demonstrated my legitimacy is to organize a massive demonstration, which I understand has happened here as well recently as students, and I think they're a good thing, and I encourage them. And we marched across the bridge and onto the provincial legislature, and I was at the head of that march, and after that. And just so you know, we had 5,000 students march, which is a lot for Canada, not so much for Britain, but it was minus 30 degrees. I expected them. So 5,000 is plenty. Minus 30, and the march was about a mile and a half to two miles, and we had paramedics on standby. And you'd be going so slowly you wouldn't have kept going? No, you'd go fast.  So what did you get from Rachel's talk, Stephen? Well, let me check my notes again. Because that was mostly what I got from her talk. It's interesting, the thing I was thinking about when I listened to the talk, which I needed to remind myself of now, is the difference between personalization that is done for you, and personalization that you're a part of for yourself. And most, if not all, the personalization that I see being done by learning management systems, course providers, academic institutions is of the former type. We will personalize it for you. A large part of her talk was about students being engaged, not just in the menu selection kind of fashion, but in the actual design of the menu. The actual nature of the choices that are available, the actual course and progressive studies. You know, it's interesting, people talk about it. This is a personalized Physics 101 course and my reaction is, if it's Physics 101, it is by definition not personalized. You're going to cover this very specific content area. And personal learning, as opposed to personalized learning, is learning where you pick and choose even what the subject area would be. And I don't know if the university should even manage with that concept, where a student comes and studies for four years and they choose their own course of studies, although it was once like that. So do you think that broad issue of systems doing the personalizing, obviously it's a pervasive issue? What are your reflections on it as a pervasive issue across all the different ways in which we use web-based systems nowadays? Well, I mean, it's a pervasive issue, not even web-based systems, but just systems generally. I was in another session yesterday Jenny McNess and Roy Williams, who were participants in our very first massive open online course, and have been a lot of work on it since. I'll catch you later. Bye! We get these interruptions sometimes, and that was Bob Harrison, who's someone who just barges in. That's funny. So they had everybody go through an exercise where you take a course and you evaluate it on different dimensions of degrees of emergentism, and emergentism and personalization and personal learning are almost synonymous if you use the definitions that they used. They're obviously very different concepts, but in practice you end up with the same terms and the same measures and all of that. So I decided, because I'm a contraman to evaluate the conference instead of the course, and it's interesting because the conference has very strict control structures, it has a schedule, all the access is limited, you have to pay money to get to it, you have to travel to it and all of that. So it's interesting that this personalization thing impacts not just web-based courses but pretty much everything. Actually I think it's instructive to look outside online courses to think about the different degrees which can have personal as opposed to personalized learning. You think about the design of a city even, where people create their own personal dwellings or personal residences, they choose where they're going to live to a certain degree how much they're going to spend depending on their needs etc. But now I was one of the things I'm thinking about because I've spent the whole time at this conference thinking about what am I going to say tomorrow, because I have a deadline and I really need to write my talk sometime before I do it. And so one of the things that I've been thinking about is the explanation of why MOOCs fail. And of course they don't really fail, but that's a different issue. But the explanation if I had to give an explanation, my explanation would be well it's because they're courses. 90% maybe more of MOOCs basically are some course that's the equivalent of university course or some similar facsimile that's been put online and quote-unquote open. And so all the things that don't really work in terms of personal learning with courses are things that don't really work in terms of personal learning with MOOCs. Yes, I mean I might take issue a bit with one aspect of that and I'm reflecting on having done to conclusion of properly two MOOCs and the thing that I found completely counterintuitive was that in both of them I felt I was in a one-to-one dialogue with the teachers whose stuff had been canned months previously. And I'd got kind of two halves of my brain operating at once, one saying this is all being canned previously, it's utterly impersonal. And the other half saying this feels like I'm in a one-to-one dialogue and the fact that it felt like I was in a one-to-one dialogue definitely altered my motivation and helped me learn made me determined to succeed. And that just struck me as a very very odd characteristic which to some extent I think has been ignored when people describe content-rich, non-collaborative MOOCs as simply another form of publishing. Although technically they're another form of publishing, from a point of view of what learners feel like, that doesn't feel like reading a book in the science. I was just going to ask what's the difference between the MOOC you just took and reading a really good book. Because I read Gimmons to try and read more. And at the end of it I thought I'd lost a friend. Yes, I mean that may be because you, unlike I don't relate to books in that way and it may be that the proportion of people who kind of feel personally engaged by content is kind of very small in either context, in which case it's an outlier effect and therefore you don't have to worry about it. I got the sense from fellow students with whom I discussed this that that was a very predominant feeling that they felt when there's a guy on the AI course that Peter Norvig and Sebastian Thrun did who said it felt like sitting in a bar with a really smart friend who was explaining things to you in a way which you knew were going to get your head held. That strikes me as a remarkable set of feelings to have engendered in learners through dead content. That's not really what we think of as a course sitting in a bar talking with somebody who's really smart. I mean that's almost not transferring the academic process. It's something different and it's interesting as well you say you were talking to people in the course which means you were talking to people in the course. The course did not consist only of those videos. Although to be clear most of those conversations happened when the course was well near completion. So if I think about the two individuals that I kind of struck up extensive dialogue with, it was essentially because I was writing about the course that they picked up on it and we got to know each other. We didn't get to know each other through the course processes. How important was the writing up for me to your participation in the course? It clearly meant that I was thinking about the course in a way I wouldn't have been thinking about it if this is a self-evident point I'm making that knowing that each week I was going to have to write a report meant I approached it in a different kind of way. Of course to remove ourselves from the realm of self-evidence different how? Different how I was observing the sort of pedagogic processes because I was writing about them. So it's almost like the instructor was a tallied? No. Not specially. It's interesting. People who are themselves kind of interested in aficionados of online learning, their take on experiencing online learning is going to be different from people who are not aficionados. Right. I think we might be careful here too because the terminology can be confusing because we're talking about personalization or personal in terms of the personal connection that you get with the instructor or the material. But when I talk about personal learning or personalized learning I'm talking about the degree to which the learner is in control or is defining the course and the environment. There are two very different things obviously. And I think both are desirable. I mean what you're describing is what Terry Anderson describes as presence. And this presence whether it's an actual physical presence like we have here, even though the camera is a third presence in our conversation I'm certainly aware of it and I'm sure you are. I'm just like... The presence is a desirable feature in a course and in learning materials that doesn't require that the person actually be present in order to generate presence. That's one of his theses. And that would stimulate engagement. But I think if a person is designing their own course, their own learning experience they may or may not seek that out. They may or may not seek out the presence of particular individuals or particular types of individuals. I think there are two major TV series that were influential on me. Actually three. I'll use three because it's better. Where this sort of presence was created. One was Kenneth Clark's Civilization. Another was Carl Sagan's Cosmos. And another was Patrick Watson's Democracy. You may have heard of one, two or all three. Probably not all three. Two. Okay. And I much preferred Carl Sagan and Patrick Watson for different ways than Kenneth Clark. Kenneth Clark? I'm sure he's brilliant, affable and all of that. Not a guy I'd have a beer with. Just... Being the kind of guy he'd have had a beer with. And as much as Kenneth Clark tried to personalize that course for me, it wouldn't have worked. It has to be me picking. I'm going to study art. I'm going to do it a different way. Although I will say I love the book. I just thought to... We're being asked to wrap up so we're going to wrap up. I just like to wrap up now. I hadn't expected the conversation to take this form and it's been interesting having it. And we need to remember to tell people who are watching this that something is happening later. There's more of this. There are also some live streaming of various keynotes including Stevens and Dame Wendy Hall's this afternoon and I think before Wendy Hall's keynote there's a live streaming of a presentation by two people who are here from the Sloan Consortium. I think those are the three things that are happening that are live streamed. Very good. We'll cut an end at this point. There's nothing left to say. Don't cut it off yet. You heard it here first. Subschmaller has declared that the world is not ending right now. Something else will be happening. Thank you.


Hey everyone it's Allison. Welcome back to The Tiny Herd where we talk about everyday pet care for guinea pigs, rabbits, and other small pets. Today's video we are going to do my much-awaited hay comparison video. So I have around me here five different brands of hay that are easily accessed on Amazon. So I literally went on Amazon and searched hay for guinea pigs and then picked five of the most common ones that came up. So I'm going to show you guys what brands of hay they are. I'm going to show you in detail each of the hay is what it looks like, what my first impressions are, and then I also did a taste test with all the pets to give you guys an idea of what is the best quality hay and my favorite hay that you can get easily accessible, like I said, from Amazon. So let's get into it. Okay so first off let's talk about the five brands of hay that I got. So I'm just going to kind of tell you what the brands are. First off I have Small Pet Select. This is their second cut Timothy Hay. So I will show you guys that. And then I also have the Oxbow Western Timothy. Sorry for the lighting. Oxbow Western Timothy, this is actually emptied from taste testing it. But I bought these two brands, the Small Pet Select and the Oxbow, because these are two of the most common ones talked about. So I wanted to do a comparison of those with some of the other brands that are not talked about as often. So the other three brands I have are KT Timothy Hay. This is the, it just says all natural Timothy Hay. It doesn't say what cut it is or anything like that. So I have a little bag of this and then I have, this is American Pet Timothy Gold Premium Timothy Hay. That is all it says. But the brand is American Pet and I will show you guys all these up closer in a minute. And then I have the Vitacraft. This says Fresh and Natural Timothy Premium Sweetgrass Hay. So I again don't know what cut it is or anything like that. But a lot of the cheaper brands of hay don't tell you what cut it is. So we're going to talk about all of that and I'm going to show you guys these in more detail. All right so I did want to give you guys a more in-depth look of the packaging of each of these. So this is the Oxbow Western Timothy Hay. It has some information about it on it. But basically I like the packaging of this hay because it does have good information about feeding hay and about guinea pig and rabbit nutrition, especially on the back. It talks about it being Western Timothy Hay grown specifically for your pets to deliver the fiber they need and the premium oxbow quality they deserve. So there's a lot of different information on this because Oxbow does offer different kinds of hay. So you can see it has like a taste versus texture and then some other nutrition information. So packaging wise I like the Oxbow Hay because it talks a lot about how important hay is and gives you details about the hay itself. All right next up we have the small pet select. So normally when you order small pet select it comes in a box like this. Every time I've ordered it it has come in a different size box like this which I actually really like because it kind of helps keep the hay contained because in the bags that are supposed to be resealable I find that it's like compressed and then once you start taking it out it no longer fits in the bag. But with the box I don't have as much of an issue it seems like. But with the small pet select it also has this sticker on it that gives you information about the hay. So it is second cut Timothy Hay. You can get different cuts of Timothy Hay from them which is really nice. So this tells you a little bit more about it and I actually have another video that I will link in the cards and in the description box that talks about hay and kind of like the different cuts and the nutritional value and that sort of thing. So that will be linked but that is the small pet select. Next up we have the KT brand Timothy Hay and it doesn't really say much. It just says rabbits, skinny pigs and other small animals. It just says Timothy Hay. It kind of has a little that's not really any information. And then on the back it has some information but it doesn't really I mean it says high fiber hay supports digestive health. Like it doesn't have a lot of information and then it just says sun cured Timothy Hay. So not a whole lot to go off of there. I do like though since this is a hay that's sold in pet stores that it has this little window that you can see the hay because the Oxbow bag has that as well. And if I was an owner that knew the different cuts of hay and all the different nutrition and that sort of thing. So pretty much if I was the owner I am now but I was buying hay from the pet store I would definitely be looking through the window to see the quality of the hay. So we will talk about that. Next up we have the Vitacraft. Like I said it just says fresh and natural Timothy premium sweet grass hay. It doesn't really tell you what cut it is but again it has that window. I don't think you can buy this in pet stores near me but you probably can somewhere otherwise it wouldn't have that window on it. And then it does actually have quite a bit of information on the back. So it looks like it talks a little bit about why Timothy Hay is important and then how to feed it. And yeah that's that's about all it says. It just says sun cured Timothy Hay. So that I like when they provide some information on the packaging just because if you're a brand new owner and you don't know a ton about the different types of hay that can give you a little bit of information but this one definitely gives you more information than the KTH does. And then finally we have the American Pet brand Timothy Gold premium Timothy Hay. So this is a pretty small bag you can tell but I actually purchased the smallest bags of all of these just for the test of this video.  This again doesn't have very much information on it. It kind of talks about what animals can have it but that's overall all it really says. It does actually have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. So that's kind of fun. I didn't catch that but that's kind of nice.  So that's actually kind of nice. So those are all of the bags themselves of the hay and box. So now I'm going to actually get the hay out and show you guys my first impressions of the actual hay itself. All right so now that you know what the hay's are I want to talk to you a little bit about what I look for in a good hay before I show you guys each of these the actual hay itself in detail. So the things that I look for in hay are that it's good quality meaning it is not dusty. It's pretty green. It's pretty leafy depending on what cut it is because the earlier the cut the less leafy it's going to be but it should be the right consistency for what cut it is. If you're just buying hay like going on Amazon like I said and picking a hay and it doesn't have what cut it is I would prefer it to be on the leafier side. You don't want it to be dusty and you want it to just kind of feel good quality. Like you can definitely tell if you've tried different brands of hay that sometimes you open it up and you're like I don't think my pets are gonna like this or this just doesn't seem as nice. Sometimes it's really brown so I want it to have a nice green color. I want it to have a nice texture and I want it to smell fresh and not be overly dusty or overly pokey. So those are the main things I look for and if you're confused about any of that I'm going to be showing you in detail the actual hay and the consistency of it so you should be able to get a better idea of what I'm talking about when I say you know texture and color and that sort of thing. So let's go ahead and flip the camera around and I will show you guys the hay in detail now. All right guys so we are here and we are making a mess on my floor. You guys might have to bear with me a little bit through this video because I am super allergic to Timothy Hay so my voice might get a little scratchy by the end of this but I'm gonna do my best. So first up here we have the small pet select. So first impressions this is the second cut so it is a little more stalky because it's second cut but it is still it does still have some of those leaves in there but I don't you guys should be able to tell on camera that this has a nice green color. It looks nice. It's like a deeper green mixed with the lighter green. It does have these little fuzzies in it is what I call them which guinea pigs really really like and it smells really nice. It smells really fresh and just from me playing in it like this there's no like major dust cloud or anything so it's not super dusty. I've used small pet select in the past and it was pretty good quality and this looks to be another batch that is pretty good quality. Okay next up we have the Oxbow Western Timothy. So from me touching this you can probably hear a little bit but this is pretty it's pretty significantly softer I would say than this. This is pretty stalky and hard and then this is a little bit softer. It has more leafy bits mixed in with the stalks but again you can see it's a really nice color. It's like a deeper green. It also smells really fresh and when I got this out of the bag it was it's definitely dustier than the small pet select seemed but it's not crazy dusty like I didn't immediately like start coughing or anything like that which I do with dusty hay so it is a little dustier but I think the dust sometimes just comes from it being in a bag so sometimes if you dump your hay out of a bag and keep it in something else it really cuts down on the amount of dust. All right next up this is the KT brand Timothy hay and for me touching it again it is very stalky it's very pokey like this you can see like it's very hard like that would not be good for an eye poke or a hay poke. It also has these little fuzzies in it. It's not quite as nice in color you can see the difference here it's a lot lighter and looks a lot drier so that is one thing to note and I will say I only buy pet store hay if I'm like absolutely out and waiting on a shipment to be delivered of my normal hay.  This is the Vitacraft Timothy hay and again this one is pretty comparable to the KT hay honestly wouldn't be surprised if they came from the same place but these stalks seem a lot smaller like the grass was a lot smaller when it was cut than this this doesn't really have those fuzzies in it I don't see this also when I pulled it out of the bag was very dusty so that's also something to keep in mind but again like I said when it's in a bag even with the KT hay when it's in a bag I really think it holds onto a lot more dust than if it's in like a box so that is the Vitacraft hay and then last but not least we have the Timothy gold from American Pet so you can immediately see a difference here okay this is very soft and leafy I would guess this is probably third cut Timothy hay just from my knowledge of Timothy hay it is a really nice color I mean look at the comparison between those two this is a really nice rich color it's really soft and when I started to get this out of the bag I was first off surprised at actually how much hay is in this little bag because it's kind of compressed and since it is so leafy they were able to compress a lot in there but it also was not very dusty which was super nice I honestly was pleasantly surprised when I got this out so of the three like other haze besides the oxbow in the small pet select because the oxbow in the small pet select those are pretty well known to be pretty decent quality so I was really interested in testing these three other brands as well so I was pleasantly surprised like I said by the American pet hay so we will see how the guinea pigs and the rabbits actually like all of these haze I will do one more quick overview of all of these like show you the hay close up just show it to you and without me giving my impressions so that you guys can get a good look at it and then I will move on to giving you guys the actual testimony from the pets I've also just decided to do one additional test taste test this one is going to be with the bunnies so since I spread all this hay out here and have it kind of separated out on the floor I am just going to leave it here because this is the bunny's playroom as you can see it's also a dining room but it is the bunny's playroom so I'm going to leave these here and see if there's one that they choose to eat over the others all right guys so how I'm testing all of these haze is I've set up each cage to have one hay bag that has the normal bluegrass hay they usually eat and then a hay bag that has the new taste test hay so for example in this cage that hay bag has the normal bluegrass this one has the hay that we are sampling so that's how I'm doing this taste test I didn't want to risk anyone not liking a hay and as a result not eating enough hay during the day so I went ahead and just gave them both and then it will also give us a good comparison on if they like something more than their normal hay and again I'm severely allergic to Timothy hay so by the end of this video I'll probably do sneezing but gotta do what we gotta do this is really dusty so I'll probably use the same footage for the hay comparison video I don't actually have asthma I just you know have really bad allergies and I start wheezing and can't breathe for like 15 minutes which is why I don't feed Timothy hay okay it is the next morning before work so I was going to show you guys how they reacted to the hay initially so for them this one is the orchard grass and no this one is orchard grass this one is the new hay so you can see there's way more of the orchard grass gone isn't it it looks like they pulled some of this out but not that much that one's so pretty full these girls you can see this is the orchard grass this was the new hay so they pulled a whole bunch of that out and ate a bunch of that so they must have liked the Timothy hay at least this brand of it so that's interesting and then here's the boys this is the orchard grass so they ate a normal amount of that and then this is the other hay and it looks like they've actually pulled out quite a bit of that as well and ate some of that so overall for the viticraft it looks like the boys ate some of it liked some of it the girls really liked it they ate most of it and then the little babes didn't really eat it so kind of a mixed reaction to that one all right guys I wanted to show you because this is something people ask me a lot so they had orchard grass in this hay bag and then they had the viticraft Timothy hay in this one and people ask me all the time how I get hay out of my fleece and if you can see this hay just like comes right up this hay does not this hay leaves all these little pieces that stick to the fleece and make it way harder to clean so that's one of my tips I guess is the better quality hay that you have or the leafier hay that you have the easier it is to clean up okay here's what I mean you guys hopefully you can actually see this but I've done a super thorough spot cleaning job on this and there's still just like little bits of hay stuck in the fleece and I don't like that all right so consensus on the viticraft Timothy hay so the boys ate some of it I feel like they pulled a lot of it out and left it on the ground but they did eat some of it but you can see their normal hay rack is completely empty so they definitely didn't like that hay more than their normal hay the girls were the opposite because this is their orchard grass or their blue grass I mean and this was the viticraft hay and you can see it is all gone which I'm not sure they don't usually eat as much hay out of this one which is why I thought it would be a good test they generally eat more hay out of this hay bag so they did pull a decent amount of it out but they did eat a lot of it so that was interesting and then finally for Johnny and June's cage this one had the viticraft hay and that one had the orchard grass I keep saying orchard grass the blue grass hay their normal hay and you can see the viticraft hay bag is much fuller than their normal blue grass hay so overall I would say they preferred their normal hay okay so this is the viticraft hay that I just took out of their cages and then this is the American pet Timothy Gold that we are going to be putting into the cages this hay comparison is ending up also being more of a test with the guinea pigs just because a lot of the bags that I bought don't actually have enough to fill an entire hay rack for the bunnies so this clip is actually the bunnies eating the viticraft hay I decided just to give them a little pile of it I knew that they would end up eating a pile kind of more than a hay rack but if they just completely didn't touch this pile that would definitely say something so they are actually eating it the bunnies really like Timothy hay they just don't get it that often so I'm really interested in the outcome of this comparison because I would love to buy smaller boxes of Timothy and supplement everyone's diet so the bunnies do actually like the viticraft hay as well so you can see the bunnies are here eating their pellets but right here was the pile of hay that I gave them last night of the viticraft Timothy hay and they spread some of it out but it's pretty well gone all right so first off sorry for the background noise my air purifier is running right directly next to me because I just filled all the hay bags but this is the new Timothy gold American pet Timothy gold hay they seem to be checking that out the girls are checking it out as well this will be interesting and then Johnny is actually eating it and June is eating the normal bluegrass hay so we will see in the morning and tomorrow evening what they think of this brand okay so here's the next morning with the American pet Timothy so this is their orchard grass keep saying orchard grass this is their bluegrass this is the Timothy so you can see they quite enjoyed it theirs is pretty much all gone I'm gonna have to refill that same thing over here with the girls they ate quite a bit of the Timothy hay as well and the little babes as well I'm surprised everybody really likes this one all right guys so here is the final testimony for the American pet Timothy gold please ignore the fact that my cages have not been spot cleaned yet I just haven't done that yet tonight but this is the boys cage you can see they have eaten quite a bit of this compared to their normal bluegrass hay I'd say they ate about equal amounts of both of them today so they definitely like it you can very clearly see which one is the winner for the girls cage this is their normal bluegrass hay this was the new American pet Timothy hay and then here is the little babes cage again clear winner here this was the American pet Timothy hay and that was the bluegrass hay so everybody seems to actually really really enjoy this one and then this was the pile of hay from American pet that I left for the bunnies and you can see they ate quite a bit of that huge pile that I gave them and they spread some of it around but they they ate quite a bit of that all right so everyone currently has the small pet select in one of their hay bags so we will see what they all think of it in the morning all right guys it's the next morning with the small pet select so this is the small pet select this was their bluegrass it looks like they did eat some of it looks like they actually kind of pulled a lot of it out but it's kind of hard to tell how much they've eaten at this point so I will check again this evening same with the girls it looks like they've eaten some but they definitely didn't eat as much of this as they did the American pet hay so we'll see what they think over the course of today as well all right and with the boys they definitely ate more of it than the other two cages did but with them it's kind of hard to tell because they only have two hay bags and there's two pigs and they kind of since they're boys they are you over spots but they definitely did eat more of this it looks like they actually pulled out quite a bit overnight so again we'll see how they do throughout the day so I've now also given the bunnies a pile of the small pet select hay so we will see what they think of this over the course of today okay guys final consensus on the small pet select everybody kind of ate it but nobody really absolutely loved it um I mean the girls had quite a bit of it left so nobody absolutely loved it I will say if you look in the boys cage here they don't have a lot left in their hay rack but they absolutely just spread it all over the place like this is the biggest mess we do not normally have hay like this in just a day like this is a lot so nobody super loved it but they did eat a little bit of it and also you can see Andy is eating a little bit of it here but they've had this pile of hay for the whole day and they really haven't touched it okay everyone has the oxbow western timothy hay now so we will see what they think of this in the morning and then check on it tomorrow evening here's the bunnies with their western timothy hay they had a nice pile and then Mikey immediately dug in it and spread it around so we'll see how much of this is left in the morning okay how everyone has done with the hay so the girls did eat some but their hay bag is still pretty full we will see how they do throughout the rest of the day this is just how they did over the night same thing with the little babes with the oxbow hay so this is the oxbow this is the bluegrass we'll see if they eat more of it throughout the day today all right and then for the boys please excuse the incredible mess they have made but they've pulled out all of their bluegrass hay overnight and made a huge mess but for their oxbow hay they've actually eaten quite a bit of it they did pull a ton of it out as well but I don't know why they're pulling hay out now and making a huge mess all the time but they are so I will refill their hay bags as well and we'll see if they also eat the oxbow throughout the day today and then you can see here the bunnies did eat quite a bit of this but they also just pushed it around so also kind of a halfway answer on the oxbow from the bunnies all right guys final consensus on the oxbow so the boys did eat quite a bit they also had pulled quite a bit out of their hay bag and then they did eat their entire bag of normal hay so they definitely ate it and were okay with it but they didn't eat it over their normal hay the girls kind of the same way they definitely ate more of the oxbow hay but they definitely didn't eat as much of it as they did some of the other haze that we tested and then finally with the little babes they definitely did eat you can tell they did eat some of the oxbow hay and they ate more of it than the bluegrass hay so it seems like everyone does also like the oxbow hay everyone now has the KT hay in their cages so we'll see how they like it just to show you guys the girls have the KT hay and so do the little babes and I did add some KT hay to the bunnies hay pile this was not my best idea because this is turning into a huge mess in the pet room but we only have one more day left of this so we'll see how the bunnies like this hay okay everyone last morning check in this is with the KT hay so the girls actually did eat some of it but it looks like they did pull out quite a bit but they did eat some with them I think they just prefer to eat out of this hay bag so I don't know if they are necessarily the best taste test sample but they did eat the KT hay little babes are the kind of the same way they did eat some but they also pulled out a bunch and spread it all over so they also kind of ate it but we'll see how they do through the rest of the day okay all right and then the boys here you can see this hay bag is just about empty but there's also quite a bit of hay on the floor so again I think they pulled a lot of it out but they did also eat some so again we'll see how they do the rest of the day and then the bunnies pretty much just spread theirs out um they probably ate some of it but this is all KT hay on the top here so they didn't have a huge pile they just spread it around and apparently decided they wanted to poop in a circle around it so I'm gonna have to clean that up okay time for the final consensus on the KT hay so they did actually eat some of it but a lot of it is just on the ground so I don't know how much they actually ate but you can see they did still eat some of their bluegrass hay as well as pulled out a lot of the KT hay and then same thing for the girls they did eat a lot of the KT hay but they also did pull a lot of it out and leave it on the ground which is something they don't normally do with their bluegrass hay and then last but not least the boys also did eat quite a bit and pull out quite a bit of the KT hay but then also ate quite a bit of their normal hay as well so overall I feel like they ate this but it definitely wasn't their favorite and then the bunnies really just spread their pile around and didn't really eat a whole lot of this they did eat some but it's mostly just spread around in the pile all right guys so I apologize for the bad lighting in this clip but I wanted to give you guys my final thoughts after comparing all the hay and letting all the pets do a taste test so out of the oxbow and the small pet select so I kind of have those you know segregated out to the side because those are the two that people talk about the most so between the two of those I would recommend the oxbow over the small pet select second cut just because my pets likes the oxbow more they ate more of it and there was less that was just pulled out of the hay bags and left on the ground I have used a small pet select third cut Timothy before and I would probably get that over the second cut if I was going to use small pet select because I do actually really like small pet select they have really good quality and they're really consistent so I would either do the oxbow or I would do probably third cut Timothy if I personally was going to be buying them then out of the other three Hayes that are the less well-known brands I would recommend the American pet Timothy gold over the Vitacraft or the KT hay so the American pet was really leafy I do have to say that I think that is third cut Timothy so it's a little bit unfair to say it's nicer quality when it's a different cut because third cut is always going to be leafier and less stalky than second cut which is what I believe the other two are to be perfectly honest I have never purposely bought first cut Timothy hay and I don't know if Vitacraft and KT are first cut or what cut they are they don't say I would not recommend for my own pets I wouldn't buy for my own pets the Vitacraft or the KT hay again I just want to say this is my opinion this is based on my pets taste test if you use these brands I'm not saying they're terrible or anything like that really go off of your pets preferences and what they want to eat and what they like but for what I recommend and what I would purchase I would not purchase the Vitacraft or the KT hay I just want to say because I have the opportunity here I've bought the KT hay in an emergency from Walmart before and I absolutely hate that hay I am the most severely allergic to it it is extremely dusty it is extremely sharp I was getting splinters from it putting it in hay bags so it just scares me with hay pokes and risking that so I don't like the KT hay at all I think it's super low quality and I don't like it Vitacraft was right there with it it wasn't really any better at all so those are two brands that I won't ever be buying again and then the American Pet Gold American Pet Timothy Gold was great it was not dusty it was leafy it was all the pets liked it and ate it so that was great and that is only $5.99 on Amazon so if you only had two pigs that bag could probably last you like a week so if you're only buying a $5.99 bag every week that's pretty good so out of the total five the two that I would recommend the most would be the Oxbow Western Timothy and the American Pet Timothy Gold so those are the two that I like the most in this comparison and then I would say small pet select after that for sure because again I do really like small pet select products they're all really good quality and that is a good quality hay it just didn't match the taste test of the other two so those are my top three recommendations and then the two I didn't really like so just wanted to leave you guys with my final thoughts there so those are my final thoughts I just wanted to wrap up by saying of course this is my opinion and my experience with my pets your pet might love the KT brand or like the small pet select better so it's go off of your own pet's preference this was just my opinion based on my things that I look for in hay and the quality that I look for in my first impression so so thank you guys so much for watching I hope you enjoyed getting to see this hay comparison let me know what brand of hay you guys use down in the comments what your pigs like and I will see you guys in the next video bye


Good morning everyone, my paper presentation topic is ultrasonography and evaluation of breast lesions staged by Byrads in correlation with FNSA and dystopathology. My co-authors are B. Paneel Kumar, Professor MDRD and Dr. Pradip Kumar, Professor MDRD. I'm introduction sonography has become a standard breast imaging procedure during the last 15 years because of technological advances such as use of all high frequency transducers up to 13 megahertz and color and power docker imaging. My ambition objectives include evaluation of breast lesions using ultrasonography and classify them using ultrasound Byrads categorization to evaluate sensitivity, specificity, post-operative value, interpretive value and accuracy sonography in differentiating malignant form benign lesions to determine the most accurate sonography feature in differentiating malignant from benign lesions to correlate ultrasound features of breast lesions with FNSA and dystopathology. My materials and methods include source of data from Department of Radiology Shantra Medical College Nandiyal and the duration of study is from October 2020 to January 2020 which includes 50 sample size. My sampling criteria include inclusion criteria which is all patients with clinically palpable breast lesions or with suspicious lesions from mammography about 18 years of age are included and follow-up of tissue diagnosis that during the duration of my study in this hospital are included. Coming to exclusion criteria, all patients with inflammatory breast lesions and patients whose sonological examination is inadequate or tissue diagnosis not available are those who lost follow-up. Coming to results analysis, this table shows distribution of patients according to age group. This table shows talentic symptoms. This table shows ultrasonographic findings. This table shows frequency of the shape of index mass lesions on ultrasonography. This table shows frequency of the margins of index lesion on ultrasonography. This table shows frequency of presence or absence of pseudo-capsular index lesions. This table shows frequency of posterior aqua intensity index lesions. This table shows frequency of ecogenity of the index lesions. This table shows frequency of microcalcifications in index lesions. This table shows frequency of flow characterization of index lesions on color Doppler. This table shows frequency of pattern of of aspecialization or index lesion on color Doppler sonography. This table shows frequency of resistive index lesion on color Doppler sonography. This table shows frequency of Byrads' category of index lesions on ultrasound. This table shows calculation of p-value for ultrasound features. This table shows calculation of significance for Byrads. And this table shows results of comparison of Byrads with BioC. And this table shows results of conversion of Byrads with FNIC. This table shows comparison of ultrasound features with FNIC and BioC. This table shows histopathology for the final diagnosis of the index lesion. And this table shows histopathology and FNIC for the type of carcinoma in index lesions. This table shows comparison of ultrasound classification with the pathological findings in 50 breast lesions to detect malignant lesions. All 50 patients who underwent ultrasound examination were in age group of 90 to 55 years, a palpable breast lump was most common for them to complete. Some patients had more than one complaint. Focal mass was the most common finding on ultrasound. Associated axillary lipids were seen in eight patients. Four of which were seen in malignant lesions. All of the malignant lesions were hypoechoic. Majority of them showed irregular shape, its secreted margins, and distal acoustic attenuation 63.6%. Majority of the malignant lesions showed dilapidated and oval shape. Echogenic pseudocapsules surrounding the lesion were seen in 25% of cases. Other benign sonographic features included hypogenicity and smooth margins in 75% cases. Other sonographic color signal were seen in 90.1% of malignant and 28.6% benign lesions. Majority of them malignant lesions showed penetrating pattern of vascularization. Spectral Doppler analysis of breast lesions shows RI greater than 0.99 in 90% of malignant lesions and RI less than 0.99 in 87.5% of benign lesions. 11 malignant lesions were characterized as bi-rats five and 13 lesions as bi-rats for ultrasound. Most of the primary tumors were infiltrative ductal carcinoma on histopathology except two of them were medullary carcinoma on malignant fillouts on musinus secreting carcinoma. It is found that ultrasound is insensitive for the detection of index tumors. This is the case of medullary carcinoma. This ultrasoundogram shows large hypochloric mass lesion with areas of specks of calcification and the actual tail of breast. Here we can see in the histopathological picture the synthecial pattern of underplastic tumor cells with surrounding lymphoplasmostatic infiltrates. This is the case of fibroid normal. This sonogram shows hypoequilation with a smooth margin with few specks of calcification. The histopathological picture shows intra-analytical imagination of stromal connective tissue with increased stromal component. This is the case of intracarcinoma. This ultrasoundogram shows hypoequilation in retroilliar region with angular margins. This lesion shows evidence of peripheral basclarity. This histopathological picture demonstrates cellular clusters of ductilectile cells with gliomorphic hypochromotic UVA, which is in a high-grade intracarcinoma. This is the case of fibroid normal. On this sonogram, we can see subellic circumscribed mass lesion, which is heterogeneously hypoic and has microablosions with specks of calcifications. This histopathological picture shows increased evenly distributed glandular and stromal components. This is the case of invasive ductile carcinoma. Here we can see mass lesion with irregular margins and area of cystic lesion. Central and eccentric intracystics of tissues are noted. This sonogram demonstrates evidence of peripheral basclarity with low resistance flow. This histopathological picture shows gliomorphic hypochromatic nuclei within highly cellular ductilectile cells seen in the middle stromal tissue, seen in invasive ductile carcinoma. This is the case of invasive ductile carcinoma. The ultrasoundogram shows the different hypoic mass lesion with the microcalcifications and irregular margins is seen in breast. This histopathological picture shows gliomorphic hypochromatic nuclei with high cellular ductilectile cells seen in the stromal tissue, arranged in sheets and cords. This is a picture of invasive ductile carcinoma. This sonogram shows hypochromatic mass lesion with the angular margins. And also we can see large axillary lymphenopathy in the breast. This picture shows highly cellular ductilectile cells with hypochromatic nuclei seen in the stromal tissue, arranged in sheets and cords. This is the case of medial ductile carcinoma showing hypochromatic collision with penetrating artery. Restive index was seen more than 0.99. This histopathological picture shows large tumor cells in a syncytine satchel and are sharply separated from the surrounding stroma which is heavily infiltrated by lymphocytes and blast muscles. This is the case of pilots tumor. This ultrasoundogram shows large-cancelated, smooth-marginated hypochromatic mass lesion with multiple septations in the breast. This histopathological picture shows nodular structure with the prominent stromal proliferation in peridactal regions. This is the case of misnosticidic carcinoma. Here we can see fairly well-defined hypochromatic lesion in the right inner quadrant with the lopulated margin on the middle aspect of the lesion. This microscopic picture shows evidence of large glandar cells with the extracellular holes of musin surrounding aggregates of low-grade cancer cells. Coming to discussion, ultrasoundographies use the screening modality for screening of breast lesions. All patients suspected breast lesions should be subjected to ultrasound for initial detection and localization of lesion. There is ultrasound morphological features in the plant. Steady ortidine, overall sensitivity of 90.9% and precipitate of 87.7% and prostitute by the value of 83 and an integrative value of 92% for manual lesions. My study was a sequential screening test in which cases where FNIC positive went in for biopsy. Comparison of ULC with FNIC revealed sensitivity of 80s, 78 and the specificity of 77. And comparison of ultrasound with histopathological examination revealed sensitivity of 72 and specificity of 100%. To conclude, ultrasound is sensitive major modulate for the evaluation of the suspicious breast lesions. Ultrasonography helps to evaluate the disease morphology and extend better. It is recommended that ultrasonography be the initial screening tool in patients suspected breast lesions followed by higher imaging modalities like contrast MRI for further calculations if indicated. This protocol helps the operating surgeon to give the maximum information about the lesion by also providing a roadmap prior to surgery. Having completion, this was a sequential screening test done as a prospective study as a diagnostic efficiency of the ultrasound in clinical and mammographically detected breast lesions to differentiate breast from malignant lesions and to determine the extent of primary breast gastroenoma. All 50 patients underwent ultrasonography followed by histopathology or FNIC for final analysis. Ultrason was performed using high frequency probe that is shown in some periods. IU-22 equipment, focal mass for the most common ultrasonography finding associated Alexandria lymph nodes were seen in 8 patients. All of the malignetitions majority of them show irregular shape is circulated margin and crystal acoustic termination. Majority of benign lesions show laminated margin and oval shape echogenic pseudo-capsule surrounding the lesion was seen in 25% of cases. Other sonography features include hypo-equivalent chance, smooth margins in 75% of cases. On the galler-dopper sonography galler-dopper sclerotic serine 90% of malignet 28% of benign lesions. Majority of malignetion showed penetrating pattern of acetyluridation. Factoral Doppler analysis of breast lesions showed RI greater than 0.99 and in 90% of malignetions less than 0.99, 87.5 of benign lesions. Based on Bayreth's classification according to American College of Radiology breast lesions are characterized as benign, probably benign, probably malignet and malignet. 11 malignet lesions were characterized as Bayreth's 5 and 13 lesions as Bayreth's 4 ultrasonography. These are my references. Thank you.


The book that you just wrote the plant paradox that is by the way Congratulations number two in the York Times list. Thank you very much awesome. Congratulations, and I hope those of you who have gotten the book Have enjoyed it so far and those of you who have not I urge you to get it Not for the theory. We're gonna talk about the theory in the back of the book. Dr. Gundry has got actually very practical What to eat how to eat recipes? Sort of breakfast lunch and dinner suggestions, which makes eating what you're proposing a lot more palatable and doable because the fact the matter is What what you've identified here is that a lot of the things that we currently eat that we think of as healthy are in fact Not in fact, they're attacking us And let's let's just jump into the meat of that right now Perfect, good. I think that's the important thing to realize like at the end of the day I want our viewers to know what the hell do we eat and what don't we want to eat and why because you've changed my diet like You know 80% of what I'm sorry about that. No, it's fine Really tough to explain to people the entire theory of And I met this guy dr. Gundry through my dear friend Tony Robbins who's a dear friend of ours both so let's jump in What do we what don't we eat and why? Okay plants don't like us They were here first They had a great nobody wanted to eat them when their predators arrived they had a problem They couldn't run they couldn't hide they couldn't fight but their chemists as you and I know of incredible ability almost all drugs come from a plant compound and so they use chemical warfare to keep us their predator from eating them and They use lectins which are proteins that are basically designed to hack our system in many ways but the fundamental principle of lectins are I like people Have people think of these as basically incoming guided missile attacks and lectins like to pry apart the wall of our intestine and Most people don't realize that inside of us the surface area of the intestines is Equivalent to a tennis court and surface area every one of us And the wall of the intestine is only one cell thick and the cells are all held together by little tight junctions like kids playing Red Rover Red Rover and lectins actually flip a switch and Pop these tight junctions apart and then lectins which are foreign protein get through the wall of our gut But they also take with them what we talked about in the book are bacterial particles cell walls Called lipopoly saccharides, right?  We're under attack. We should scramble the fighter jets We should go to threat level five and wherever we see any protein that looks like a lectin or a little piece of shit We should open fire and ask questions later The idea is to create inflammation and inflammation makes an animal feel lousy or not thrive And that's how plants win So at the end of the day We know one of these lectins the whole society has gone on a gluten-free diet Because you have this, you know, oh, I've got gluten intolerance gluten intolerance everybody talks about gluten intolerance and so forth And that's just one of The minor lectins if you would correct, right? Yeah, we'll talk about all the other lectins that potentially could be hitting you Right. So why did why did gluten get such a special showing? Well, I think there's a there's a couple of things It truly is a lectin and there are Two to five percent of people who clearly carry genes for gluten intolerance for celiac disease The extreme form of gluten intolerance but when we just add if you take people with celiac disease and put them on a gluten-free diet and they're saints and Rebiopsy their intestines two years later 83% of them will still have celiac disease Even though they're eating gluten-free So that actually proves that gluten is just one little piece of this puzzle And what I try to convince people is that most people who are eating a gluten-free diet are eating a heavy Lectin-laden diet so give me the top five or ten things that contain lectins that you That I used to be eating and all of you are eating that you don't realize you're eating So where are lectins prevalent? Okay, so all grains have lectins whether they're Healthy grains one of the things that's happened to us in the last 50 years is we have actually bought hook line and sinker The idea of whole grain goodness. Yeah We've always thrown the haul away from grains.   I was like being a vegetarian and then all of a sudden the you know I was getting my protein from beans. I was so proud and then boom I mean, you're absolutely right beans are really heavy in lectins. Yeah, and Unfortunately, you can soak beans and get some of the lectins out and you can cook beans and get some of the lectins out But they're still heavy in lectins The only way to get it out is a pressure cooker and I was doing a podcast yesterday with a vegan chef Who has a best-selling book and she wanted me on her podcast and she decided to go on the plant paradox program and To test it out. Yeah, and so she was has been on it for about a month And she says okay I'm gonna start this podcast because I did this to prove you wrong Because I'm a thriving vegan and I chose vegan for lots of reasons, but She said you're right. She said I can't believe how much better I feel following your vegan diet There's there's a vegan version in the in the book. There's a vegetarian version in the book She said you took away what I thought every vegan had to eat to be healthy And when I took those out of my diet, she said you're right I hate to admit it, but I'm here on the podcast telling you you were right And this is actually the response I get from almost every human being including myself So grains okay grains of meat and beans and then an American plants So this is interesting, right? I love this again. It's it's about logic, right? most of us didn't evolve in America a 100,000 or a million years ago. We were alive in this savannahs of Africa. Yeah, we all came from Africa Yeah, and none of us from America from America. We're from Europe Asia or Africa Yeah, so none of us have ever encountered an American plant or genomics in encountering correct Yeah, or our microbiome or a microbiome. Yeah until 500 years ago when Columbus started trade Well, there are the American Indians watching who probably but they're Asian Over across the they you came here about 11,000 years ago. So we're all from somewhere else. Sorry about that And we're all originally from Africa. Yes, agreed So genomics evolved for a non-American plant diet And so what are the American plants that we are eating that we shouldn't be so the two beans that are Peanuts and cashews their beans. They're not nuts. They're American Peanuts are some of the most deadly foods ever found The nightshade family potatoes egg plant peppers tomatoes and goji berries Goji berries are American. They were called the wolfberry They were taken to China and trade and they grew extremely well So these are all nightshades and the sad thing is in general the peels and the seeds have the lectins and Italians as you probably know traditionally peel and de-seed their tomatoes before you make sauce and My mother's mother was French and she taught my mother to always peel and de-seed a tomato before we ate them And because that's where the lectins are because that's where the lectins are and they were removing them The same way with peppers You'll never open a glass jar of Italian bell peppers and see peels and seeds because they're gone The southwest american indians always char and de-seed their peppers before they grind them into chili powder or eat them You'll never open a can of green chilies and see peels and seeds because they've been removed Interesting so traditional cultures have dealt with lectins and we've kind of forgotten all that and it's fascinating They dealt with it not by knowing the molecular biology, but by trial and error. Yeah, they they knew how it made them feel in fact, there's the old joke that No sane individual would ever take a second bite of a jalapeno pepper And if you think about it from a plant standpoint the plants go, what do I have to do to stop you eating my babies? so, um So in the book you talk about the and I remember when I first met You were so kind to spend a couple hours and and and made my life very easy by having the Eat these are things you can eat and things that things you shouldn't eat and it just it changed where I shop It changed what I eat it changed everything now, um at the end of the day, I want to now talk about uh, the impact it has because uh, the impact is On number one weight reduction will come to that in a moment, but the second is if you've got an autoimmune disease I mean you have had miraculous results with people with rheumatoid arthritis or lupus or Poly maldromatica or a whole range of other autoimmune diseases. So can you talk about? The autoimmune elements And the weight loss and then cardiac as well. Yeah, I mean are there are those the three major categories? You would say or yeah, in fact the longer I do this now Um You know, I think apocrates Statement keeps ringing in my ears and I think most of us forgot it So apocrates said that all disease begins in the gut But he said that every creature has this Ability to heal itself to have perfect health And he called it the green life force energy kind of hokey, but that's what he called it It sounds better in greek or latin And so the purpose of a physician was to identify the obstacles that was keeping The green life force energy from having perfect health in in a person and to remove those obstacles and then the person would heal himself and What I found I'm a pretty good detective is By removing things from people they all Healed themselves. So I don't heal rheumatoid arthritis I identify what's giving them rheumatoid arthritis get it out of their diet and then they heal themselves Apocrates is right. Yeah, so it's interesting. I was speaking to an infectious physician with a top id doctors here in la and We were talking about the notion that his belief is that all autoimmune diseases all rheumatoid type diseases actually begin Through an infectious process It's your your body having your immune system basically identifying some kind of a alien protein maybe with part of your molecular structure and And turning on an immune cell that attacks it and then when the infection is gone, you're still keep attacking yourself Yeah, I think that's very a reasonable idea We know that there's a lot of people who We can trace the beginning of their autoimmune disease to Ininfection of viral gastroenteritis, you know stomach flu We can trace it to somebody getting a ton of antibiotics and killing off their microbiome Certainly, we've seen people with a stressful encounter I remember one woman very clearly in Santa Barbara Her rheumatoid arthritis started a week after her mother's sudden death when she was about 13 years of age She had remembers it vividly and Now she doesn't have it anymore. But what happened was she had leaky gut from that shock And one thing I like to use is an example. We know that marathon runners Elite marathon runners get a profound leaky gut and you actually see Marathon runners towards the end of a race have bloody diarrhea As they near the finish line And our immune system in marathon running takes this tremendous hit for about two weeks and the gut becomes permeable But so I think again, I think apocrates is right that it starts in the gut Now whether a bacteria gets through whether a lectin gets through whether both accomplish it Lectins are interesting because they are proteins and proteins That look a lot like other proteins in our in our body and it's called molecular mimicry And the idea is when your immune system is activated It it doesn't want to make a mistake and it would rather shoot first and ask questions later So if imagine your fighter jets are scrambled and they come across your thyroid gland and there's Lectins or other proteins that look like lectins and you're in your When you insist it says oh my gosh, you know these poorer women's are her thyroids full of lectins and we should kill them and It's amazing that other people with Hashimoto's thyroiditis that it actually has come from their gut whether it's Permiability and and what you've shown is if you change your diet you can calm your immune system down in that regard Correct. And how fast can you do that? Well, I was naive early on that I thought could be done in a couple weeks It it takes a while primarily because you have to change your microbiome The microbiome can change fairly rapidly, but then you have to go about sealing the wall of your gut We need to think of our microbiome as this tropical rainforest which is an incredible ecosystem in and of itself. There's 10 000 different denizens living in there and they compete for space and they compete for food and so it's an incredible ecosystem And one for instance round of antibiotics as you and I know will wipe out this ecosystem And it may take two years to get this ecosystem back to its complexity So it can take three months six months. I've seen it take as long as a year, but usually three to six months And last fall I had the honor of giving a paper at the international microbiota meeting in paris at the pastor institute of 78 patients with marker proven autoimmune diseases Who following this program became marker negative within the year and stayed marker negative as long as they Spiled the program