Boys we got a banger today the team assembled has Cubies it has golden tickets. It has every 98 overall wide receiver. What it has Lydani and Thomas What are you talking about man? It has mega truck free safety? I'm out man My absolute favorite lineup every single year is out of position and they added so many crazy out of positions this year with the Ultimate Legends program so it's gonna be better on top of the amount of people who make golden ticket out of positions this team is 95 overall Robert Woods is our blocking tight end That's super weird taste some hill is the backup behind him is will shields a 98 overall tight end We got prime-time Daryl Reavis Ed Reid a Dory Jackson and Jeremy shocky as our wide receivers Randall Cunningham a half back with Patrick Will is stick better your mouth boy. Well, let's be nice As a backup at back Marvin Harrison Jonathan Ogden the goaded QB The alien Thomas and as the backup, I don't know who I want to use honestly. I might interchange them Unfortunately, there's no out of position offensive line So we got an awesome 99 overall offensive line pretty much 99 overall They're not defense megatron free safety with acrobat Jamal Adams right outside linebacker with enforcer and deflator a nasty combo The Danny and Tomlinson who is gonna be a nasty user Keanu Neal I've used him in a wheel of mud landing Collins left outside Carl banks a strong safety Jim Thorpe corner Travis Frederick as left-end Patrick Ricard de tackle Steve Hutchinson de tackle Rodney Harrison right outside linebacker as our right end. This is gonna be so sick We also have Ocho sinko kicker breath far puncher But I get a shout out to John for building this squad this squad is dope John hit me up on Twitter He's sitting out of position line up for me. I appreciate you so much, bro. Thank you so much And the sponsor today's video is a personal favorite of mine is the best mobile RPG It's raid shadow legends of course use my links to download ready for yourself It's on mobile and PC among some of the many things that makes raid amazing They've got a whole world of amazing looking champions each champion comes from a unique faction and each faction has its own crazy Deep lore here's a quick dive into one of the first factions You're gonna meet the banner lords the banner lords are basically medieval knights with a massive kingdom in the west of Tilleria They're arrogant and warlike and believe themselves to be on the side of good But the orcs ogre and skinwalkers and lizard men would disagree the lands of the banner lords were taken from the non-humans by force and kept Through centuries of persecution with the help of the sacred order now with the banner lords weakened by the wars of their King the time may be at hand for these races to right an ancient wrong by whatever means necessary Without a doubt my favorite banner lord is art mage. How much you can't look at this dude I'm telling this is not one of the coolest champions you've ever seen the black knight is a legendary And he looks really incredible too. Honestly my personal favorite part about raid shadow legends is the champions I'll show you guys my collection right now some of my favorites But Kayla is my starter as a special place in my heart also grinner. I mean just look at him Bro, just look at him. Also. There's a bunch of new stuff in rape They've released 11 amazing new champions and 200 brand new missions to complete Also, if you complete all that you can be an exclusive legendary champion plus five tough new levels to almost every dungeon in the game Raids getting bigger every single month, and it's never been easier to start playing So what are you waiting for make sure to go to the link in the top of description to download Raid Shadow Legends right now It's that easy click the link in the top of description I'll see you in the game and Ray. Thank you for sponsoring guys. Enjoy the rest of the video I'm really excited users going up against RG 3 sandmills and primetime lots of 99s get this work at a minute corner Oh my gosh, this is gonna be funny. Oh Going gunslinger pocket that I roaming dead. I random cutting hands reach for it back to a master Oh a looping blitz I've been using those wheels We're gonna rifle on the wheel shields who just toe taps will shields the right guard. Oh My god, that's a laser. That's a touch. Oh, no got that foot out of bounds.  Let's go for it. Why not, baby? Oh RB no, no, I don't think that was good I'm gonna win. I don't care. I'm gonna win. Oh a little read option. Oh Oh that first tackle didn't go through good play by him. I don't really care for this cover too that much Snapped my safety's ankles. That's tough, bro in the middle. It's check down city right now But we're moving down the field and that's the only important part Randal Cunningham is gonna bubble Maybe not nice loop. He finally got the looping blitz to work. I Don't know about that. Yikes, dude. Why is everything getting covered? Oh, I can't I can't double team him cuz he's too far off That's kind of that's kind of smart. Okay blocks are holding up. Yep. He's wide open Still very winnable Wide open underneath Randall Cunningham where she can hold our be blitz bro. I need to be executed. I'm so over it Big time catch. That's a two-minute warning first and goal.  All right a clean touchdown right there. He doesn't user the middle He literally is just trying to loop blitz loop blitz loop blitz.  Oh, I did A two-point conversion Play action again. I want that bumble row.  Yeah, it's clock is ticking here. We got to get in there. We know he's running the ball.  He does not want to do anything else All right, I'm just gonna look I'm literally gonna look at Randall Cunningham. Oh He put a man. He put a man He man them up with his left end But it wasn't enough clock is stopped cuz I call the timeout Do you think Robert Woods could get to the back of the end zone here? Ogden. Ogden. Ogden is just too fast for you, bud. He's too fast. Pick them up, buddy Robert Woods. Oh, I don't know My goodness, why does prime time moss my golden ticket?  Oh Real Cunningham, I'll do a little run in my own. I literally love this team I'm not gonna lie to Robert Woods is not doing anything. I either hit Cunningham or Woods Cunningham is kind of there a little sketchy. I'm not looking deep though. If my dudes are open deep. I literally wouldn't know Got him.   He just gearing up for a field goal. Yeah, I didn't expect it damn Ten to eight. Yeah, now I'm sad that I didn't get my field goal earlier But I'm gonna stay in this formation so that taste some Hill is always blocking Wait, what? How did he get through? I didn't see what happened. I Don't know about that pass volleyball simulator, bro.  That is so depressing to play against Edelman, let's go make another play man. We made plays before today Honestly boys, this is just what Madden looks like in the late stages. I guess is that's just it We didn't get a goal on that stop though, so that makes me feel good. He's gonna do it off the left side now I'll run at him. We'll see how that goes. Oh No, I just got inside stuff. Oh, okay All right, Cunningham. Yeah, you know, I did have a little bit of success in on-game air I should have been running a little bit sooner. Can we play that one back? Just so everyone is on the same page. Can we rewind that one? Just so everyone's on the same page. This is what Madden looks like at the end of the season fourth and eight I'm gonna hit Robert Woods if he's there. Oh, is that it? Did I actually just get a roughing to pass her? I Get so score touched out. I literally can't win. I should have taken that field goal, bro There's so many blockers over there. That's that's gotta be one of the stupidest things ever like That's really crazy that you can do that He just got roughing the passer again. I can't believe he didn't get this earlier, bro and That's the game. Yeah, I'm excited for this one to be over ladies and gentlemen put me out of my misery Alright, hey, I see such a cool team. I'm really bummed that that's the game You guys had to see with that team because it's such a cool team It is it is I'm playing Madden so late in season like I have nothing to complain about I need to accept my fate. All right boys. Hey, I appreciate you watching if you have a squad hit me up On Twitter you have good days yet bad days. That's part of the process. I'm all right with it I still love you boys. I hope you enjoyed the video. Peace out


River State Governor Nyesong Wike has said the conduct of the governorship election in comparative terms is better than what was experienced during the presidential election of the 25th of February, 2023. The governor's conviction is predicted on the fact that, unlike the delay he experienced with the use of bimodal voter accreditation system beavers in the previous election, only about two minutes were spent to accredit him to enable him to vote. Governor Wike spoke shortly after he casted the ballot at his polling unit 7 in ward 9 of the Rural Community in Obyoakbo Local Government area of River State. Speaking of reported voter apathy in some part of Obyoakbo Local Government area, Governor Wike said when the election of the 25th February, 2023 was conducted, some people came out and voted with great expectation. Governor Wike said that even if Anneke had denied it, which he expected, I can tell you that the director of security in Anneke-Empress, one neighbor in Ndo, he was one who carried it up because Bagre Sabi is from Bougony and the director of security is from Bougony. So I don't want us to go into the details of health and rule, but for the security in such a sensitive commission to breach security, it's quite appalling, it's quite appalling. But we thank God that the National Authority has led the health quarters of combat to deny it and the security groups are taking it. Hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.


Awesome. Hey guys, hope everyone's having a wonderful KubeCon so far. Our talk today is going to be focused on the application operator persona. So we're going to talk a little bit about the importance of operations to managing cloud-native applications. My name's Sidanwa, sometimes colloquially referred to as Spud, mainly by Ria. And you want to introduce yourself? Yeah. Yeah, and we both work on the same team. This talk is going to be pretty abstract. It's not really going to dive into a lot of technological details. But if anybody has any questions throughout the presentation, just feel free to stop us. And we're open to having a discussion at any point during the talk. No. Okay, so a little bit about the operator. So operations is responsible for managing everything from infrastructure to applications. So at the very beginning, it is the operator's responsibility to choose the infrastructure. And traditionally, when you're on-premise, this refers to your compute networking storage and your security standards. So the operator is responsible for choosing the technologies that are going to back these. And they're responsible once that's done to actually deploy and monitor the infrastructure. So they're responsible for building out the tool chain to make sure that it's easy for them to deploy and then they're after monitored the infrastructure. No. The third one, I have an asterisk around it. And this is one which there's generally two schools of thought around this. So how many of you have developers who operate the applications once it's deployed? And I think generally the industry is heading towards this where you have this DevOps role or this DevOps role where the developer is empowered through technologies like Kubernetes and some of the serverless offerings to actually operate the applications. But the other more common one that we see, at least I see when I work with large enterprises is that there's a very strict handoff between the developers and the operators. So the developers are responsible for only writing the code and delivering business value. And then there's a completely separate set of people sometimes referred to as the DevOps people who are responsible for actually running that thing in production. And the different schools of thought both have merit and it really depends on the enterprise and how they're structured. Typically the larger ones will have separate people doing all these separate duties and the smaller companies will have the DevOps role. So even within the operator role, when we talk about the word operator, there's a ton of roles that fit into this category. Traditionally there have been systems admin who are responsible for, you know, administering the VMs, administering the servers when there needs to be an increase in capacity. There's the network engineers that we see very often in large enterprises and these are responsible for things like IP allocation, subnetting, where the applications are deployed, what kind of network rules are applied. You have the IT systems admin who work more with developers and make sure that the developers have working development machines and have great security access groups. You have something known as the SecOps which is responsible for making sure that all the enterprises security standards are passed down to the actual operators in the AppOps. You have something called the database admin who is responsible for actually administering the database. Throughout this talk we're going to refer to all of these as the infrastructure operations. So those operators who are responsible for the three things that we're going to talk about again and again, which is the setting up the compute storage and networking of your enterprise. And really all of these things you're doing to serve your developers. So at the end of the day your business is only successful as your developers are with respect to delivering business value and all of these roles have existed or exist at some point to make sure the developers are empowered to actually deliver business value. So clearly the operational role as you can see has a lot of variants. So there's a lot of different things an operator can do and an operator who does role X at one enterprise might do something completely different at a different enterprise. So if I say I'm an IT systems admin at a particular enterprise I could move to a different one and it will be completely different. And one of the challenges with operations has always been the challenge of operating on different environments. So with the dawn of public cloud you have this compute networking storage happening in two different places. So you'll have a completely separate stack on-prem and then in public cloud certain things are managed for you like virtual network or VMs and the availability of VMs. But typically when the operators are building out these tool chains such as CI CD monitoring and safe delivery pipelines they have to duplicate this. So when you have an on-premise setup and you have a public cloud setup the tool chains with large enterprises will be duplicated. So they're forced to build these separate set of tools to actually manage things. And then Kubernetes came by in the cloud native landscape and it created a common control plane across these different infrastructures. So it created a common API surface between on-premise and the public cloud whereby operators can now build tool chains such as CI CD pipelines or Prometheus for monitoring that can work across both of these planes. And at the end of the day your development team is empowered to just do what they do which is picking the development patterns for their code and then the frameworks. As an infrastructure for DevOps teams because networking and all those things are pretty complicated sometimes which developers usually don't interfere with. So you see that there are companies who provide managed Kubernetes platforms. Do you also have that experience? Yeah, so Rhea and I both work on the container computing which is responsible for AKS which is our managed Kubernetes offering. And even there what we see is customers still have to worry. If customers have an on-premise setup or even if they don't they'll still be doing things like bringing in their own network where they have a network that already has some applications and they want to use that same network for their Kubernetes cluster. So they still have to deal with a lot of the infrastructure concepts. Is that a question? Yeah. And one of the things that I wanted to talk about was with Kubernetes making kind of applications more accessible because that's really what it did. It came by, it obstructed away the infrastructure and it gave this lore that applications are easily accessible and developers can interact with this thing to deploy their apps that the operator role is kind of going away. But I would argue that Kubernetes and the ecosystem only makes the operations role even more important and creates a more well-defined separation between infrastructure operations which is those folks who are responsible for the lower level things in your enterprise like your on-premise setup. And then the folks who are responsible for just operating the applications. So if you have a common API surface on top of the infrastructure you can create a separate role for those people who are responsible for the delivery of applications on top of Kubernetes. The monitoring of those applications and then the safe delivery of them. This makes the roles more streamlined and concrete. So you'll have those folks who are responsible only for the infrastructure and then those are responsible just for managing the applications.  And from the customers that we have spoken to, having this clear separation allows people to A, hire for talent, which means that you can hire infrastructure operations who are good at what they are. You can hire Kubernetes admins who are good at, you know, administrating Kubernetes clusters and managing applications on top of it. And having this clear separation will just allow you to move faster. So I touched on this a little bit and the idea that Kubernetes came by and it created a division between infrastructure and applications is very true. So it creates this API surface that makes it super easy to get started with containers and deploy applications on top of it. But some of the things that it makes easier can lure you in and then it becomes very complex really quickly.  And then really quickly you get into like really complex and it becomes a very big beast. So for example, if you were to deploy a Hello World application on Kubernetes as a developer, the quick starts are very easy.  But the day two ops of, you know, actually deploying this thing, setting up an ingress, setting up autoscale policies to support your customers and managing all of those quickly becomes very cumbersome. And you don't want your developers doing that. You want a bunch of folks dedicated to application operations to actually take care of that task. So we think that there is room for a new role in the ecosystem that sits on top of Kubernetes, which is definitely an infrastructure orchestrator. And that is the app ops and the app ops role is responsible for just delivering the applications, monitoring them, taking care of things like safe deployment and then securing the traffic. So as a developer, you're responsible for just building your code and you don't really care about the fact that it runs on Kubernetes underneath the hood. The application operator would make that decision for you.  So you would write your code, you would iterate on it, upgrade it, and then the application operator would take care of doing, okay, let's use service measures to actually do the canary deployments. And we're going to do, we're going to follow the canary pattern to actually do safe upgrades. But again, as a developer, you wouldn't care about this. You're just caring about writing new code. So these are the duties, you know, digging into those duties a lot more. So the delivery of applications includes, you know, setting up and using those CI CD pipelines to deliver the apps. And you can deliver this to multiple environments by virtue of Kubernetes being the common API surface. You can set up and manage the monitoring agents on Kubernetes and you'll get a common control point to actually monitor these applications. And this also includes building out the learning. Safe deployment includes performing upgrades and maintaining availability during upgrades. And this is where things like service meshes with Istio and traffic actually come into play. The last one is securing traffic and there's actually a wider, this actually falls into a wider category of just security in general. It's not just about securing your traffic, but also making sure that the data that the application accesses is stored securely. But even in on Kubernetes, the application operator in order to accomplish all of these tasks has many technologies that are disposable to actually get this done. So these are just some of the ones that we found just by doing a quick Google or Bing search. And if you want to do things like deliver applications, you need to go and not only pick, but you need to learn Jenkins and you need to learn Brigade.  If you want to monitor your applications, there's Prometheus, Grafana, Datadog, Dynatrace, and the list just goes on. And as an app ops, you're responsible for choosing one of these and then picking the right one. For safe deployment and securing traffic, this kind of falls into network and security. And with the dawn of service mesh last year, there's been a lot of technologies that are available to actually get this job done. The point being that in order to actually manage applications, the application operator needs to learn a lot. They need to learn all those technologies. They need to actually set it up. And setting it up involves them dealing with the Kubernetes cluster, which is not necessary. As an application operator, you just want to care about how the application is delivered and how it's managed. And you shouldn't need to care about the underlying infrastructure. The last one is that there can be different implementations and support across environments. So some of these might work well in one environment and some of them might not work well in other environments. And this leads to the next point of leaky abstractions, which is when you're trying to set up a thing like service mesh on Kubernetes and you're trying to deploy STO, you have to deal with a lot of YAMLs. You end up having to set up a lot of YAMLs as an application operator. And this forces you to get into the nitty-gritty of Kubernetes, which is not necessary. So to talk more about how the industry is headed and where we think this is being addressed, I'm going to hand it over to Rhea. Thanks, Mama. That was a really good talk about today. Here's an overview of... Oh, I'm just going to put it down. This is an overview of where we are in this space today and what we've been doing, especially Kubernetes. So we have Kubernetes and IaaS, and this isn't an example of all of the technologies out there or all of the innovations. A lot of this is out of specific, but I tried to encompass a lot of other things. So, Kareas and IaaS is a thing. We have a lot of customers and we hear a lot of users paving their own Kareas customers on top of ISBMs and into cloud. So they have to do a lot of the hard stuff with networking and storage and all of that. They have to pave it all themselves. And then we're getting... We got into this wave about two or three years ago. We're managed Kubernetes, which is a huge thing. And a lot of us have created these managed Kubernetes services. Past that about two, one and a half years ago, almost two maybe, serverless Kubernetes between things. That also, that was a huge overloaded term that encompassed functions, containers as a service, odds as a service, containers that just spin up on the fly. So that's kind of what we branded as serverless Kubernetes. It's a completed term that we use in marketing a lot. If you just walk through the booths and walk down the sponsor booths, you'll see probably serverless Kubernetes or no serverless Kubernetes or all of that. That was kind of also in the next phase of innovation where we're consistently trying to figure out how do we abstract away more of infrastructure for customers? That's where we started with the cloud. We wanted to abstract away bare metal and VMs on-prem. And then we wanted to abstract away what it means to put Kubernetes together. That's where managed services came along and then serverless Kubernetes. But we think there's something that's going to come after this. So when we're thinking about what else could we attract away and why would customers want that? Well, they don't actually care about managing a distributed system, right? Customers are just here to deploy their apps and see them running. They care about their business code. So while we continue to get there, there's probably something else that would hopefully abstract away maybe even Kubernetes itself. And then the entire management of Kubernetes or discrete system up to somewhere, someone else, possibly a cloud provider and possibly, I don't know, another operations team possibly. There's a couple of things that are starting to get into that space. So Rio from Rancher is a good example where they're trying to have people just deploy applications and we'll get into it a little bit later. And also Knative on top of Kubernetes. So the roles within this landscape. Since Sonoma basically brought up the new role of an application operator, maybe not so new role, this application operator would sit in a space that's past Kubernetes. So they won't actually interact with Kubernetes itself. They wouldn't interact with the Kubernetes API. Only infrastructure operators would act within that space because Kubernetes is too hard. You still have to manage a lot of stuff. And it's not really for developers to deploy applications and not really even for application operators to deploy and run applications. Kubernetes just gives you the infrastructure that's for that. All right. So Knative, they've branded themselves also as serverless Kubernetes. I would argue it's a little bit of a step further than that. They're giving you a bunch of building blocks for applications to run on top of that. So for example, they have serving, which will help you with function. They also have auto scaling, so an auto scaling trait or auto scaling component within Knative. So if you want to scale from zero to X, you're able to do so with just installing Knative and then Rio. Rio also uses Knative, but they've built a really nice UI through Rancher, and they have a bunch of different load balancing and HTTP routing rules, canary deployments, so they're using a service mesh and deploying that for you under the hood. So this is also getting closer to what we think of managing applications. They're giving you all the features and all the tools you need to actually go and deploy your app directly on top of the infrastructure without having to deploy all of this stuff yourself. And then there's another problem that is creeping up into our community. We are creating a bunch of different distros. So a lot of people are talking about how Kubernetes is kind of a new OS or a new operating system, so keep making this and it's everywhere. We are basically with CRDs in production of custom resource definitions. We're creating these new flavors of Kubernetes because now every cluster can have all this extra functionality, but when you go and take a pod stack from, say, a Knative deployment and move it on to maybe a deployment in Amazon, it's not going to work the same without you deploying it and constructing it first. And the same thing with Red Hat, third distribution, and then Rancher. So all of these, and then even Microsoft in it, even other cloud providers, a lot of us are writing our own custom CRDs to give customers an easier time and more functionality and have the Kubernetes, but really what we're doing is kind of fragmenting the community. So this is a quote that I, it's just something that I wrote up, so I'm just going to read it. We promised flexibility and portability to users of Kubernetes, but with the introduction of CRDs, custom resource definitions, they add extra functionality while still looking and feeling like Kubernetes. But this means workloads using these CRDs are no longer portable to any Kubernetes cluster. They're portable if you have the CRDs as that flavor already installed. So we're changing basically the landscape of Kubernetes now, we're fragmenting it. And it's the not so secret killer of OSS communities. If we take an example from Linux back in the day, there was probably 12 to 15 different distributions. And now we only hear a three or four. We could argue that Kubernetes is taking that same route and CRDs are most likely the way we're doing it. And so customers are going to have a harder time as we continue to evolve and we continue to innovate in this space. So what if we could use a common API, just like Susama talked about on top of the infrastructure layer. So we could avoid this fragmentation and we could continue as a community building together. This is just an open question. We don't exactly know what the future holds. But what we do know is Rio things like Rio Knative and all these other implementations of CRDs that are popping up everywhere are probably not going to be the solution. We need something to tie all of this together. So if you guys have any ideas or want to talk to us about it, I think you would be very open to doing that. So thank you. We have a lot of time for questions, hopefully in the five minutes. Thanks. Thank you guys. Any thoughts, questions? You can feel free to ask them now or come by after. The solution is very open to talk with the space but no one's really done that yet. Yeah and some of the customers that even we work with, especially the really large ones, have built this layer on top of Kubernetes themselves so that their developers never have to interact with it. So a lot of the large enterprises are trying to get away from exposing Kubernetes to their customers and building their own version of something like Rio, which they call a micro pass but really it's just providing application functionality like things like data deployments and auto scaling. These are constructs that are application oriented and they just happen to use Kubernetes underneath the hood. So they're creating like a UI surface that exposes just that and doesn't really expose, you know, HPA and all the other Kubernetes details to actually just get the job done. So we think this is going to be a really hot space, especially with things like Rio and Canada coming out. I think the next coupon in San Diego is just going to be focused a lot on announcements related to this space. Yeah, there's a mic. I'm wondering what's the difference of the relationship between the F-operator and the HALM. And how? So the problems you mentioned, the relationship between F-operator and HALM. I got it. So HALM is a really good tool. I feel like a lot of us use it. I myself learned how to create applications only using HALM and Kubernetes. So HALM is really good. It's almost still like an application. It was trying to be an application operator focused tool to help people deploy applications on top of Kubernetes, but you still have to deploy everything. You still have to manage your service match. You still have to manage all of the components that HALM is probably talking to. HALM just gives you an easier way to put a bunch of Kubernetes components together and deploy it in kind of a similar way and then upgrade that same animal spec and upgrade that application. It's a little bit too loose and it gives no opportunity for people to manage the infrastructure bits underneath it. I understand that HALM can store the application but operators can manage it. Exactly. The point being, HALM is really good for just the deployment. But then after that you need something to actually manage and monitor the application and that's where HALM falls short. But it doesn't give you like Rio and K&A, for example, have gone further in helping people build applications and helping people not have to understand what the service match is and what exactly all functionality provides. They just say that we want this functionality, we want green deployments and then they would hopefully just get it with their infrastructure. Well, thank you guys. Thank you for listening.


have I think is still for Bill so I'm just going to pile more questions on. I wanted to follow up on one of Ashley's points about oversight over the length of the term say it's 50% for ten years I feel like I read somewhere in there that we do check to make sure that for example the job still exist and I'd like to hear just a little bit about that. So they're required to do an annual report and we through the assessor will do spot checks and confirm with them and make them at the very least sign a document that they're doing that and we obviously check to see most of the criteria is either the jobs or the grand list value for the most part at least under the current policy so we know that we know that the grand list value has maintained but if there were other conditions like putting in a boat array or something like that we make sure that those conditions are still being met because it is a contract it's not a and we have I think there's something about the ability to I'm hoping to get to Steeter. Yep working on it almost there so our lowest full-time rate is $15.40 with the 45% benefit so it's a couple dollars higher than the state livable rate. I apologize for not Steed Whitaker not having these thoughts as well organized. I'm no expert in tax stabilisation but I want to just make some observations. We recently witnessed the kind of race to the bottom with the Amazon second headquarters we've heard privatized the profits, socialized the costs we may be trying to contort ourselves into such a potentially advantageous to the wealthy who can afford to develop that we are selling all the rest of our citizens short this may not really be worth pursuing beyond what we've already done. I just the example on the other side the example of why would you give out of your way for $12,000 you know because your kid can get basketball shoes locally right. I can't buy a men's shirt in this town you know it's it there are disadvantages too but the idea that we those who can afford to gain the system and apply who can apply a staff to apply for these stabilizations that really is a not a finger on the scale it's a it's a foot on the scale and maybe we need to keep it very simple that if you want to contribute and join into this community and build it pony up and the benefits are will apply equally to everybody but this idea of giving 10 years of you know 50% off your taxes is not something that the poor people and the renters who are paying the taxes for the landlords are going to agree with so you're making decisions on behalf of people who aren't as well off as yourselves so I would caution that this may be a slippery slope that advantages the already advantaged at the expense of those who aren't. Thank you. Laura did you want to say something? So Laura got part of Montpelier Development Corporation a quick one or reply to Steve's comment. Thank you. And just kind of put it into context the development opportunities in Montpelier we don't have a lot of sites to be able to attract this you know the big fish so in no way do I see this tax stabilization as an incentive that's really for some you know big business that really doesn't fit into Montpelier anyway so I do want to frame that the tax stabilization is helping to incentivize something that you all want to see happen whether it is efficient buildings or good jobs or growing the grand list we're not at the scale of some of these other communities who are doling out really big incentives and I'm very conscious of that from the economic development perspective few things so I want to read something from Shannon McIntyre and Timo Bradley they weren't able to make it tonight but they're from timber homes so they just wanted to share their perspective from the tax stabilization policy just to give you some context there so our business timber homes in Vermont recently opened our shop doors on Elm Street in Montpelier we've been operating out of a wall tent in middle sex for six years and slowly growing the business when the perfect piece of land for our shop came up for sale we felt ready to move forward with buying and building in Montpelier even though it felt like a colossal financial leap the number of employees and the level of production had outgrown the wall tent and we wanted to be a more visible part of the community we all live in we made this move carefully with our eyes wide open to the fact that to build the facility we'd need we'd be taking on significant loan payments for 30 years to come and a much higher tax bill to push our business into a position of needing to meet a certain yearly revenue and needing a certain number of employees to do so needless to say this has been an exciting and stressful year for our company as we grow into our new size, our new financial demands, and our new digs I understand the perspective of some who feel it's not the city's job to give a tax break to businesses so I'd like to share what the tax break meant for timber homes for us getting approved for tax stabilization has felt like a sign of welcome the city's stretching out its hand to shake ours as we venture forward saying quote I see your challenges and I want to support you specifically during your transition if we continue on the on track this year we will break even in 2019 as we spend resources finishing up our new shop for a particular case as a worker owned cooperative we intend that our business while at last its ownership its current ownership and the city is therefore all but guaranteed a significant amount of tax revenue from timber homes long into the future the tax stabilization that we received is a generous gesture from the city and also a drop in the bucket in terms of what we will need to spend this year to be an operation I say this to point out that we are not getting a free ride by any means and in that in that in practice the money will save we saved allowed us to reallocate funds towards trading new employees we just hired as a resident of Montpelier I would personally support moving to add additional requirements to being approved including living wages for employees and energy efficiency standards it's important to me as a member of this community that this program be targeted at businesses that have a positive impact on Montpelier's residents and our footprint tax stabilization is a valuable tool for the city to welcome new businesses and with a few tweaks could be a well targeted incentive so that's from Shannon the other thing I just wanted to provide you all with so I did a really quick development pro forma and so sorry if this is confusing I try to simplify it a bit and just kind of give the perspective of what a developer is going through from the cost and revenue perspective of any development project and especially in Montpelier's market the numbers are really tight and so with this pro forma I got creative and did a three story mixed use building presumably in the downtown about 13,500 square feet 4,500 square feet for each level and with that there's only a certain amount that you can actually lease out so the other parts are for you know bathroom or hallway and kind of those unusable areas so when I applied very average rents this is assuming that these are average quality spaces apartments on the third floor $20 per square foot office on the second floor $18 per square foot retail on the bottom floor $22 per square foot so very average for our market you can go a little lower you can go a little bit higher but that's pretty much the average you work in operating expenses and per year those that net operating income some of them got a little blurry but it's $131,000 about for the cost to operate each year or sorry the revenue is each year when you look to the other side and look at the development costs it costs $150 per square foot to build new in Mount Pelier and this is where we start to see the numbers get really close where the cost to build is pretty similar all across Vermont but when you go to some place like Burlington you're able to acquire much higher rents and so this is where we are really tight in our market to making those numbers work and then I got to the end with a project for you to have the green light to even move forward and start applying for permits you want a net operating income that's higher than your total cost of capital that didn't happen and before I left the office I was like fiddling with the numbers I jacked up the rent prices I really lowered the interest rate on the loan I was going all over the place and I still couldn't get above that threshold the revenues were higher than the costs and so I didn't do a great job of that but it's showing you like it's really hard to make a project work any sort of development project and so and to have rates that actually work within our market that people are going to pay to open up their shop or to open up a new office so when we talk about new businesses that want to open up and try their concepts it's really tough to enter into a building with $22 per square foot into a first floor retail space so that's where it gets a little challenging for developers to build and to get the return there's a certain rent that they have to hit and yet so all to say it's really hard to make the numbers work in this community so any little bit helps especially if we want to build in our downtown if we want to redevelop brownfield sites that just continues to add to the cost so you have the soft costs which are architectural designs, engineering drawings and add into that any infrastructure improvements that they're paying for themselves it really it starts to climb and so I just wanted to put into context people aren't getting rich off of these developments it's a really tight margin for any and all in this city so just to again put that into context. So I'm anticipating team we have a lot more work to do on this conversation to be had and we did just talk about having some kind of a working group meeting to talk further about this so that it's okay to the group I'm seeing a lot of nods council members so I had assumed a council subcommittee but I think we should you know to Ashley's point about you know having broad set of stakeholders I think we could I mean it's obviously going to be a public meeting but sort of be intentional about making certain voices are at the table but I think it's my suggestion we have a small council group and you know some staff people to flush up the ideas and then hold a public hearing and reach out to different groups because okay yeah sure so and it has been you know voted on so thinking like maybe a group of three councilors Max well I was going to also jump in there I'm sort of interested in this but unless unless you Ashley are you interested? okay if that's okay Jack okay let me know if you have thoughts to okay great so we'll find some time oh Lauren yeah I was just going to say I mean this is something that I think I'd be interested to bring to the social and economic justice group and get their thoughts and I think a lot of this conversation fits into how are we you know positioning this within all of our priorities and how is this dealing with equity and other issues so I will I will do that as that's kind of happening on a parallel track great thank you. And any suggestions that people have about priorities or your ideas please send them to me and then we'll work that through the committee and I'll just know one one last comment from me at least is you know talking about the impact on the community. I just know one last comment from me at least you're talking about the impact on the community some of Steve's comments this has been in place since 1980 and we've done it and in the first you know from 1980 to 2003 we had 26 of these and some of them weren't large and to be clear if you're looking at an estimated amount of the contract that's the grim list amount that's not the dollars tax dollars so just in case there's any confusion about that so no one got a two million dollar tax cut it was only their taxable value you know since then there's only been five so it's not like this is something that happens a lot and particularly that it really tracks with the change that we couldn't do the school tax and so I think you know it is people the pro forma that Laura shared is very comparable to many conversations I've had with people about doing projects in town and so you know this isn't something we do a lot of although hopefully if we have more development we will two quick observations one going through the looking at the particularly some of the considerations that the draft adds I think there are city committees that are whose work is relevant to that housing task force there's some energy stuff in there and so asking those relevant committees to look at it I think would also be useful I also think that as a factual I think this point will be lost if we don't if I don't mention it now which is that with the abatement or a tax stabilization agreement we just did for the CVH project I believe that at least some of those jobs are not jobs transferred from Berlin or barrier here they're new jobs because some of those jobs are for their epic center which is a new software package that they're rolling out and it's training and installation and implementation of their new software program so I think those at least some of those are going to be new hires who would have been somewhere else if they didn't go to Montpelier I just want to revise my previous offer I think I have in the last 30 seconds realized that I actually don't have time so if Jack if you are still willing to be on it Jack you can make sure you reach out to all those groups yeah okay just making sure we're clear Ashley do you have something more I just I appreciate that this has been in place since 1980 but I can look at lots of policies that have been in place for a really long time and I just I don't I don't find the fact that something has existed for a very long time as a reason to continue to perpetuate it like I think it's a conversation that the city needs to have and I think it's also I think it's also fair that it may be the kind of thing where people are like we don't want to do this anymore I mean and I'm not saying that's on that's anything that I have proposed I've proposed scaling it back significantly but I just I want to make clear that for me simply because something has existed for a significant period of time does not make it something that is something that needs to continue to perpetuate it and to be clear my comment about that was not right just because we did something before it doesn't mean we should do it again it was that it has existed and has not really created financial hardship on the city and in fact you can see many successful projects hunger mountain co-op and other things that are big contributors to the community that was all I was saying final comment sure subject to the open meeting and if at the end of the meeting or whatever I'd like to raise the issue I spoke with you about just because of the Sunday deadline that's coming up you'll have to refresh my memory but okay I'm sorry that's right a big section of state law to make it illegal for those people who are about to be out on the street okay so moving on so do we know who's calling that meeting by the way of the subcommittee great alright so moving on so we're on to a discussion about the rec building center with goals to focus for now on the existing rec center and try to get a handle on the costs and what it might look like to improve that building and there wasn't really a consensus I guess at that meeting about how to proceed so I'm trying to get a little more direction from the council specifically on how to proceed the proposal that I put forward and it's up for discussion and if you'd like to change it would be to contract with an architect to walk through the existing building and work with the senior center the existing building and the consultant to come back to you with a range from basically just getting the building up to code, getting it safe and slightly more usable the bare minimum to making it sort of a premier rec center and what would be involved in costs layout this would not be a final architectural design it would be just a quick look to give you a better sense of what your options are so that the council can make a smarter decision going forward comments I guess I wanted to go to the next steps sooner that I thought when we got the proposal and I'm sorry I don't remember those numbers I was really hoping not to shout out another $10,000 to do the minimum when we did some of the minimums before and got estimates I really like us to be a little bolder and move forward but maybe we can't go to the architect and actually get it designed until we do this step is that what you're telling me it just seems that we've already done the minimum is that would you say that's true have we done the minimum sort of evaluation at this point well we know what the cost of putting in an elevator would be the guesstimate somewhere around $350,000 but also to do the minimum we'd have to redo bathrooms and redo stairs we'd have to go down into the basement and figure out is there lead in the building all of that so we're not 100% sure the consulting guesstimated around $1 to $2 million but he said right up front he's not an expert which is why we would bring in an architect who is an expert to figure out what the cost of that would be versus going all out and I'm guessing that you would like first to break down on what it would cost to do the full again the architect guesstimated it would be about $5 million to do a total overhaul of the building the consultant did but he said it's not a specialty so that I would think you might want a slightly better nail down estimate going forward I mean my ideal situation is that there would be some options even in between so we know what the minimum would be and what perhaps the premium luxury option would be but knowing that there's probably some steps in the middle if we wanted to refurbish the basement if that was to isolate as a cost or just the bathrooms like that sort of as you're saying but I'm not sure what the different elements would be but I'm sure that you know this process I hope anyway would be that this process would figure that out and be able to assign some costs to that so we have some choices I like your point that if within the grand picture he or she did the projects they were self standing and we might do some mix but okay I sort of you know my feeling on this is just that if we're going to go even if we go forward with the we're going to renovate the building we're going to be asked well what would it cost to just do the minimum and so we might as well have that hard number and be able to present this is the difference and this is what we think we're getting for it and it's an informed decision it will be harder than what we have now until the architect until you actually design something I mean I think this is you know people always want to know what the hard numbers are and we care that you don't know the cost well the fact is you don't really know the cost until you get your bids back but what you do is you know you start with a ballpark estimate and the architect will they'll apply square footage cost so that will be a better estimate then you move forward into design and then you have real specific you're going to have too many inches of this and so many feet of this and then they put unit cost and then it's much better cost but then you put out the bid and it could be high low depending on the market so you know I mean you'll you never know we run into this a lot with people sort of you know how come you don't know the cost and like you know it's like you do you do something on your house and until you get your actual cost you don't know is a vote on whether we move forward or unless Conard yes oh go for it yeah can I move to approve the proposal to develop cost estimates and design concepts for the renovation of the recreation center I'll second for the discussion I wanted to raise a question so having not been here when the decision was made to kind of limit the scope so I got the survey in the mail and filled it out diligently and with a kid I was like oh it would be so great and yeah that that's not where we're going but I'm just thinking of public process and knowing how many conversations we're having on Frontport Forum and other things about public process and it seems like an opportunity to engage the public and make sure that like I didn't even know that this decision had been made so there's clearly some room for better communication about how this process is going and ensuring that we're setting up a diligent process for you know okay we get back a menu of ideas which sounds great and how are we getting input from people and engaging especially because this was initiated with a citywide survey so people were proactively engaged which is great but like the follow through on that so just putting that out there like I'd love a public engagement plan around this or slash communications he comment on that Sue are we planning to do that was that a part of it sure well we can then the other thing just to add is yes the short answer yes we can do a public we actually did do a public engagement plan it's kind of hard to get the word out but even once it's developed it is worth going back I mean she did the survey but doesn't sound like she knew you did public meetings out of City Hall around that I even had seen the report but I didn't know that that decision had been made so just as like a relatively engaged person I didn't know so I'm just guessing other people did I think our interpretation of the decision too was that the council expressed a preference to look at the Berry Street building and that we weren't going to spend a lot more money getting final costs on a big building but we knew it was in the 14 million range and so we'd at least be able to say okay here's the minimum here's Berry Street and we know there's some big number out here and then engage the public on sort of that range of options I don't think it was that definitely well I hear you too and I mean we're about to once we have the choices in front of us we're going to absolutely want a lot of input on that so I mean those don't those choices don't even exist yet so great oh we need to vote for the discussion please say aye opposed and motion carries great so and I think that is the end of our regular business we're going to do council reports all the other reports and we do have an executive session and we will not be coming out from that we will come out it's a hostile situation I thought it was a meeting oh dear okay gotta keep it together here council reports do you want to go to Steve? now is great thank you I recently became aware from folks who are staffing several of the shelters around and I did some deep research in it and I spoke to one of the police officers there's a perception that Title Section 1106 of Title 19 is a section of statute relating to public highways, right-of-ways, municipally designated areas for camping and what I learned is that both of the overflow shelters that Good Samaritan runs that the city relies on well that the population relies on are closing this weekend for the season and there's been over 20 people staying at Bethany and there's at least a dozen staying and heading okay and anyway they're all being shut out the Good Sam shelter is full at 30 and these people are intending to camp some of them already have back up camp ideas out of the park or you can see some on Route 302 and others people know where you can see camping but the idea that we're making inadvertently making outlaws out of all these people just because we haven't really thought through whether or not we want to have a designated area or whether or not we want to supply a porta potty or you know I know this could be pushed back from the business community anywhere that you allow those less fortunate to have a minimalist existence but you know it's something that merits attention and it's urgent because I the idea that we're automatically criminalizing behavior that is not a criminal behavior is troubling to me and I think government including specifically this council need to take a more active role and not rely entirely on the charity community to handle this there's bridges to be built between you know casual labor jobs in the business community and some of these folks who need to step up but just even having a lawyer interpret section 1106 and help us understand what that municipally designated means and whether that applies only to state highways or whether it applies to all municipal because I don't think it's illegal to be poor it certainly shouldn't be so I just call that to your attention and I think the sooner you can I would ask you to point to subcommittee to work on this between now and next meeting oh do you have something I was just going to respond quickly to my knowledge we've never criminalized we've moved people who want to camp on downtown sidewalks in places but through people stay in all sorts of places around town and in fact our police typically know where they are check on them at night make sure they're okay particularly in cold weather will in fact give them rides to the shelters if they're available so I don't think criminalizing behavior we do keep them you know I think trying to find a balance as you mentioned the business community someone's camping on a downtown sidewalk we would probably move them but there are many places where people stay and we're aware of and have not sighted anybody of this that said I'm not saying those are the ideal places for people to stay and we certainly could be looking for better solutions but I don't think there's I want to rest everyone but here we're clear that we're not aggressively seeking to arrest people for being homeless I do not mean to suggest that we were aggressively criminalizing people but in effect what I've learned from interacting with some of these folks and the managers of the shelters is that they these in effect I think this is where even where the zombie movies came from these are people who through lack of privacy and lack of basic human support and dignity are becoming less subhuman and avoid it and you know cast and it's not fair or right and we owe it to ourselves and our own humanity to figure out how to reintegrate these folks the problem of homeless people is a serious problem last year this council repealed the ordinance prohibiting begging and which I think was the right thing to do this statute 19 BSA 1106 has been on the book since 1985 I can't imagine that anyone certainly Montpelier I can't imagine there are many places that are enforcing it but that doesn't mean that homeless people's needs don't or shouldn't be addressed I think they need to be and every night that someone doesn't have a place to live is it's an urgent situation for that person but some and some else that we need to address we've got our priorities retreat coming up might be something to talk about yeah okay great thank you again council reports who would like to go first go ahead Glen I'll go first partly just because one of the things I was going to report on was what Stephen just told us and I got it from him so thanks for that Stephen otherwise I want to call folks attention to the newly installed watercolors in council chambers yeah please turn around chair spin Donna our friend Phillip Robertson who is the curator at the wood gallery found and provided these for us and I'm really pleased to see them and we had a successful I think first meeting of the city hall art committee and look forward to more of those that was a lot of fun otherwise all I have is tomorrow morning 830 to 930 at Baguitos I look forward to talking with anyone who shows up great not much I attended my first community advisory board meeting with the community justice center was held in Northfield and was I think it was really positive to see other towns sort of following the lead of Montpelier and I give particular credit to Chief Fakos who you know you can see he's really like leading by example and he's sort of a cops cop and the other departments were sort of looking at him saying okay you know sort of this repetitive way of going about it as the way to go you know you can see him changing people's minds Jamie was also there I think representing the city manager and was tremendously articulate just sharing some you know experiences she's had and yeah I was glad to be on the board and just very proud of the work Montpelier was doing with our community justice center otherwise I sent it to Bill and Sue but I've got a draft of that responsible contracting ordinance and I'll shoot that to the rest of the council the next day or so that's it for me thank you to be honest on the scooters really paying a close attention to what Burlington is doing because it may somewhat limit our options as far as inventory depending on what direction they go in you know one thing and the mayor and I have been on a couple conference calls with some companies there it's really appealing is the idea of getting like maybe some electric bikes in town as well and some companies offer that but it's really a matter of scale like one company said you know you need 250 electric bikes and if a hundred scooters freak people out you know hold on to your hat so I don't think we're ready to like commit to that but if you like Burlington's doing some stuff we can absolutely partner with them so I'm in sort of wait and see mode before taking the next step but we do have those survey results and we'll try to put together a comprehensive Sue and I just met on this today so we'll try to put together a good presentation for everybody soon I know you love scooters though I still think we need to sit down and do an evaluation of what happened we would view it and maybe how we would approach it but I didn't put you on the spot on purpose I really wanted to know the information I need to talk about two things in the parks the parks commission men and they did an experiment this last year they were working with Mamba mountain bike thank you anyway association they have received a $50,000 federal grant and they are going to be able to complete the mountain bike trails in the north branch and they went through last year experience both for walkers, skiers, bikers and it was really amazing very very positive there were some incidences where bikers got off trail but they're working together and by and large it was really deemed a success they realized that some of the features they put into a bike trail doesn't quite work for walkers like certain bankmen of curves and tables to jump off but they're working on bypasses so it was really great hearing people work together the walkers, the bikers and the park commission and likewise this last winter they did a flat tar that's my Ohio eye sorry you know the wheel and the bike tar and so it went really well they also found out that they had a problem with signing so a lot more signs but they also need more maps because summer maps do not apply to the trails that happen in the winter so just a lot of positive development and this is also leaning into the parks commission is moving forward and working with the justice center to do some facilitation on working on their mission and goals within the commission and then moving out to all the stakeholders sometime in the next year so very positive news Laura are you good? Great I just wanted to share the social and economic justice advisory committee is doing strategic planning that is looking ahead to the year and trying to map out some real to-dos and action items for the coming year so if anyone is interested in like looking at that and having any input on what that is going to look like this is kind of the point of making some decisions over the next couple of weeks so happy to share if anyone is interested in the big matrix and I'm happy to just send it around and anyone who has time to look at that would love input to see is this in line with what the council actually wants that group to be spending their time on I'll send it to everyone because it would be great to make sure that it's on track with what everyone is hoping to see and then I just have a confession that the solid waste management district I haven't been able to get to a meeting yet because of family conflicts but I'm very excited for the next meeting I can make it look forward to reporting back from that and Ellen's there right family scheduling conflicts largely past although I am very excited to see of some of the plans I've been walking around a lot lately because roads are just a little rough and the need for better lighting in certain areas where there are crosswalks is painfully apparent I don't often walk because I'm usually not in town at light hours but so I'm excited to see that and that's it I was finally able to get the trash recycling compost group together and we didn't have a quorum so we didn't take any official actions but we discussed the possibility of putting out an RFP to ask someone to do a study for us as to what it would even take to have citywide municipal trash recycling and or compost so one of our members volunteered to start a draft of an RFP to get a basically a scoping study for that so more to come on that but I just wanted to give you that update question yeah well so they may help pay for the scoping study okay at one point they did some composting pickups yep yep yep and Ellen's all over that yeah it was great so and that is it for me okay just note that we have our strategic planning next week Monday and Tuesday should have all got something forwarded for me from Julia Novak to be clear you don't need to actually have filled out all that but she did want you to have thought about those questions in advance to be prepared to discuss that you don't have to do homework one of you asked that question I did clarify that might have been the teacher might have been the teacher who didn't want to do homework right it's possible and otherwise we are meeting tomorrow morning with the group the appellate group about the parking garage and so we'll be talking about that shortly okay so I think we're ready to go move on to the next item if we're going to go into an executive session I think this is one of these things that requires two motions I move that the council find that premature to general knowledge of the status of negotiations regarding the parking garage will place the city of a substantial disadvantage by disclosing the state of negotiations and the city's position in those negotiations for the discussion do you say aye? Aye. Opposed? and then so to go into an executive session I will be going into an executive session to discuss the negotiations regarding the parking garage under title one VSA section 313 A1 something yeah you got it you got it there needs to be a second is there a second? for the discussion all in favor please say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay much curious alright and we will not be returning wait to take any official actions right there you go that's the one okay instead of damning us to eternal