Hey, Dan. Hey, Bijan. How are you? I'm good. I'm excited. Happy quarantine. Oh, yes. Day I don't even remember what day it is. Nope. I think it's Thursday, right? It's Thursday, I believe. Want to welcome everybody. We've got a small but game group today to talk about airplane. Just want to mention Bijan and I are going to tell you some some fun facts about the film. If anybody would like to chime in using the Q&A or chat feature, which is on the bottom of your screen if you're in a Zoom meeting on a computer. If you're on your iPad, it's in the upper right, I believe. I'm on a laptop, so I see it on the bottom. Please feel free. Bijan, I think we should just mention that we have Captain Over has logged in as an attendee. Roger. Roger. Kudos to whoever, yes. Roger. Roger. Kudos to whoever is using that alias. So the thing you always like to talk about, and please feel free to chime in on the Q&A, if you can post your answers, is we always like to talk about when was the first time you've seen these films? So you want to go first, Bijan? When was the first time you saw airplane? This is another one I think I saw on TV first. I think when I was a lot younger, that's how I got really exposed to a lot of the movies that I had really no idea about, and I think seeing parts of airplane on TV and just finding it absolutely hilarious, and then being like, oh, I need to see this whole thing, and then seeing the kind of on TV version, which was a lot more hilarious and funny, and that was my first experience with it, and how I got acclimated to it. I actually had to think about it a bit, but I remember very clearly when I asked my sister if she remembers the same thing, but I saw it at our local drive-in when I was 10. That's awesome. Yes, and she and I were camped out on the roof of the car in our sleeping bags, and we had this really cool old-school drive-in theater, not too far from where I lived, and that's where I distinctly remember seeing it there, and she confirmed that because I thought I might have been imagining it. Is it still operating? No, God, no, I wish it was. I mean, they went, but it was the old style where you put the speakers in your car, you remember that, and then they switched over to FM radio for a little bit, and then they shut down years ago because they built a huge multiplex down the street, and people stopped going to the drive-in. That's okay, maybe making money right now. It would be. That's probably the one place you can go to watch a movie in public. I think a little bit of background, I think everybody obviously has seen the film, and again, if you want to chime in with your thoughts, we'll read them out loud about the first time you saw the film. This is obviously a parody of the classic 1970s disaster movies like Beside an Adventure and Towering Inferno and the airport series, but it's actually based on a movie called Zero Hour, which was released in 1957, believe it or not, and it is available on Amazon Prime, and if you have like nothing to do, like we're all looking for stuff to do while we're sitting at home, killing time, waiting to be able to leave our house, if you watch Zero Hour, like if you're insane enough like I am to watch Zero Hour, back-to-back with airplane, you're going to pick up all the, they literally take lines word for word from Zero Hour and use them in airplanes, so the main character's name is Ted Stryker, and they actually have the line, we need to find someone who can fly this plane, well not only can fly this plane, but didn't have fish for dinner, and it's the direct let they weren't playing it for laughs obviously, but you know you can do a little Mystery Science Theater 3000 type thing and watch it. It's so similar, I actually found out, Bijan, that the producers had to get permission to do a remake of Zero Hour, they had to call this one a remake because it's like literally the same script, and the same story, and everything is so, you know, it is on, I looked, it is on Amazon Prime, if you're so inclined. I think it Zero Hour was supposed to be a serious piece, not a crime. Yes, well that's what they, I guess that's what they thought, I guess now looking at it through the lens of airplane, maybe not so much anymore, but you know, that is the way of the world, you know, it was a Canadian film, I do remember that, I don't remember there's, I think there's nobody real famous in it, but it's scary how exact it is, I mean you could, you could follow the plot like all the way through, all the characters are virtually the same, it's really, really funny to do that. And so, you know, the, we should talk a little bit about the production team, this is a Zucker-Abraham-Zucker production, they had done Kentucky Fried Movie, which is a great, great funny movie if you've never seen that, and this was sort of like their first non-sketch film that a plot from beginning to end, and it has, I think, Bijana, tell me if you, I think you would agree, and everybody who's who's listening in I'm sure would agree if you've watched it recently, there's so many jokes buried in this, you have to watch it multiple times just to get everything, so you want to talk about the first, one of the first ones, you want to talk about the PA announcers? Yes, well I think I really like your point about how kind of back to back, and you don't really, what I think was really different with modern day comedies is the jokes I feel seem very sparse in modern films, and I think what I love most about airplane is how it's like every single line in that movie has a got a funny little punch line, or you can get some humor out of it, and you're right you miss a whole bunch of it, and you almost have to watch it multiple times to catch everything, but yeah one of the great parts is in the, very early in the the movie with the announcers announcing the the zones for where you can move and where you can't move, and they actually hired the real-life announcers who did the announcements for the airport in LAX, right? Yeah, to do the vamps about the zones, which is really great, and they're married, they were married in real life, which is surprising, you wouldn't think see that coming, but we actually, I actually did a little edit, so you're going to see after we do some more fun facts about the film, I did a quick little highlight reel of some of the better parts of the movie, even though there's a lot of great parts, and it was impossible to pick everything, but so you'll see that scene and a couple others, what we have coming up. Well the great part about the announcing too was that if you're not, if you're just listening like peripherally, I was watching it again last night in preparation for this, and my wife was sitting there just reading a book she'd seen a million times, and all of a sudden she picked her head up and said, wait a minute, like what's going on in the background with the announcing, because you don't realize what's happening right away until it keeps going for like, and it goes for two or three minutes at least, and then it gets into real like ridiculousness, so it was funny watching her reaction to do that, and you want to talk about the part of the glass windows? Yes, you know this one I actually was, thought really, found really interesting because my uncle is a pilot, so I'm gonna have to ask him how true this is, but apparently in the scene where the airplane comes crashing into the windows in the terminal, apparently a lot of pilots have said that that is actually not too far from plausible, because they've said that they can get, sometimes they say they've even touched the nose of the plane to the window, so I'm gonna have to call my uncle George and find out if he's ever gotten that close. Makes me feel so much better. Yeah, right, it makes you think twice now about getting off those planes. Seriously, we have a comment from our friend Captain Over who is chiming in, he says, if you're not prepared for the level of consistent comedy, the PA announcing sets you up for what's ahead, and he's absolutely right, you're absolutely right.  But I think we know what was great, when a lot of people don't really remember is that Leslie Nielsen, because he's so associated with this movie and like the naked gun movies and everything that happened after that, he was not a comedy actor prior to this movie, he was a real serious dramatic actor, and that was one of the reasons why they hired him because they figured he could deliver that deadpan, and he and Robert Stack and Lloyd Bridges were not comedy guys at all, and you know it makes it even funnier that they're so straight-faced and deadpan throughout the entire film, but you know I guess he was getting these like older grandfather parts at that point, and so now they originally wanted, do you remember who they originally wanted, Bijan for the Leslie Nielsen role? Oh my gosh, I can't remember. I put him on the spot, do you have it to remember?  Don DeLuis, yes remember him? But the directors, I guess they fought the studio on that when they got Leslie Nielsen, and he had a whole second career, I mean his whole, that's truly what you remember him for, right? I mean every now and then you see him pop up doing guest shots on like some old TV shows, he was on MASH, he was on a bunch of other shows, and he plays a very, almost like, not even a good guy a lot of times, he plays the bad guy, and it's hard to imagine that that's Leslie Nielsen, because you're so used to him climbing around in these movies. That was very fascinating for me because I really don't even recognize him as a serious actor, because all I really know him from is comedic roles, so I was like, wait, he was a serious actor before this. Right, and Julie Haggerty, this was Julie Haggerty's first movie, and she was a model, and then she went, but right after this came out, she became really in demand, and she was in, she did the Woody Allen movie, which was called the Midsummer Night Sex Comedy, and she did a great movie with Albert Brooks called Lost in America, which is a really, really, really great film. She did What About Bob, and she was just last year, she was in Marriage Story. She plays Scarlett Johansson's mother, so she's still working. People always say whatever happened to Julie Haggerty, they're not paying attention close enough. And you remember, of course, my favorite part is the lady who speaks jive, which is played by- Yes, I added that in just for you. That's right. Well, you have to. I mean, that was, you know, everybody, I'm sure people watch, listening will remember, that was Barbara Billingsley, who was the mom on Leave It to Beaver, and the only reason she got the part was because they wanted Harriet Nelson from The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet, and she didn't want to do it because there was so much foul language in the movie, so Barbara Billingsley did it, and probably today Barbara Billingsley's more famous for that than for Leave It to Beaver, because I mean, I don't know how many people still watch Leave It to Beaver, and we have a comment, and actually this is very true. I want to just, there's another comment from Rebecca who says, I don't think that joke would fly today. I think she's talking about the jive. There's a lot of jokes that would not fly today. There's a lot of jokes that wouldn't fly today. I think the part when the, you know, the lady in hysterics, when they're lining up the slapper, that's probably not going to go over very well, although apparently she, the actress who was the one having the hysterics is the one who suggested it, said, no, just line them all up and let them hit me, and I have to go on in the crowbar. What's funny is too, I think also what's so timeless about bits like that are that the internet has kind of picked it up where they'll, you know, everything gets memeified nowadays for those of you who don't know what a meme is. It's basically a picture or a video segment with words over it, but there's definitely been a couple of scenes from my airplane that have been memeified, and to me that's like the pinnacle of making it in internet history nowadays. So that one and the scene where he's running through the lobby and has to like avoid everyone and punches everyone, I've seen that a lot nowadays where people say like me going to the grocery store. That's very funny. That's true. And there were so many, I mean, you know, obviously, I guess you really, if you were of that age and of a certain age and that when the movie came out, which was 1980, there's a lot of inside jokes that you probably a modern audience really wouldn't know. And certain things that nobody would know unless you have the wonders of the internet to tell you this. But remember the lady who's trying to put makeup on and it keeps going all over her face? That was the Zucker brother's mom. That was their actual mom who was playing that part. And the other one, the big inside joke, which I could never quite put my finger on until I was reading it yesterday, is remember the nun who has the guitar? Yep, you remember she plays that. So that's Maureen McGovern. And Maureen McGovern sings the theme song to she's remember she did the morning after from the Beside Adventure, and she did the theme song from the Towering Inferno. So she had a connection to those disaster movies. And she also at the time that the movie was made, there was a sitcom, which I'm sure nobody but someone like me who was raised by the zenith in their living room remembers. There was a there was a comedy, a sitcom called Angie, which Donna Pescat, who was in Saturday Night Fever with John Travolta. And Robert Hayes plays her husband on the show. And she sang the theme song for that too. So there's the connection with Robert Hayes and the show. And I had no idea until I was watching the credits again. It's been a long time since I've seen the movie all the way through. I was catching on TV at various spots. And that it was Maureen McGovern. And she did and she had that connection to the to the disaster films, which I thought was hysterical. And you know, there's a there was something about do you remember there was a thing about how much the budget was and how quickly they spent it? Yeah, crazy story about that. They spent it very quickly. But what I think is very interesting, especially from, you know, kind of a theater manager point of view, because we're always looking at numbers and how well a movie performs. But the movie actually in the first two days of opening in theaters, grows the entire production budget. So it was a big success. And that's that's very interesting, especially for a comedy to do so well right off the bat. Yeah. Rebecca actually just asked another question saying just trying to figure out if the beach scene was a reference to Greece or to blue lagoon. It's actually a reference to from here to eternity. There's a very famous scene in that movie with Bert Lancaster and Deborah Carr on the beach, and the waves come splashing up not quite with all the seaweed and sand that happens in the movie. But that's that's the I believe that's the reference they were going for. Because Greece had just come out the year before this, or two years before this and blue lagoon came out the same year. So it is similar, but it probably wasn't the wasn't the same thing. And there's a lot of if you ever it's a really, really famous scene. It's almost always the one that you see the clip that you see when people talk about from here to eternity. And there's a really famous Sid Caesar parody of it where they get they have people throwing water on them. And in this case, they got the seaweed all tangled up in their faces, which was really, really great. Yeah.  So it's been for being culturally, I have to say right, culturally, historically and aesthetically significant. So what does that tell you? That's what they ever thought that would happen when they were making a film, right? I mean, if you had to take films to go into the yeah, I guess, who would think the airplane, but I think it's well deserved. I think it belongs there.  I mean, we talked about the naked gun movies with Leslie Nielsen, but they did top secret, which is one of my favorite movies with that was that was Val Kilmer, right? Top secret was like Val Kilmer's first movie right before Top Gun, which was really funny. And I didn't even remember this. They also did, they didn't write the script, but they directed it. There's a really, really funny movie from like the late 80s called Ruthless People, which we should actually do on one of these one point because it is hysterically funny. And like one of the great like complicated comedy scripts where Danny DeVito and Bette Midler and like really, really hysterical movie. And I had, I totally had forgotten that they did that one too, because it's not really the same type of movie is airplane and top secret where like everything, every other line is a joke. It's like it's just one of those great ones. And Captain Over would like us to mention the control tower scenes, which is great. You know, I picked the wrong week to quit with sniffing glue. Yeah, drinking, sniffing glue, smoking. Right. Do you remember the sequel? Did you ever watch the UFC airplane too? I saw part of it. I remember I didn't really like it as much. The only thing it really has going for it is it has William Shatner. Shatner, because remember it's like a space, it's like a space shuttle thing. Yeah, yeah. And Shatner is the guy in the tower on the moon. And he has like the typical, you know, Shatnerisms, which I was thinking he's not on the plane because there could have been something on the wing. That's right. You're right. You would think they would have gotten them for that, right? Yeah. Right. That episode of time was great. And I guess we should also mention Captain Over is giving himself a shout out. The questions that he asks the kid in the cockpit. Yeah.  You know, like some of those have you ever seen a grown man naked? But there are a couple that are like, whoa, can't do that anymore. Right. I think the DVD extras actually talk about the ones they cut, which were way worse than what happened. Yeah, I gotta check that out. Some of them were like really, really, really risque. Well, some of those favorite scenes, we're gonna cut now to some highlight reel, some of my favorite scenes, some of Dan's favorite scenes that we pulled to show you. It's not very long. It's only about six minutes, but enjoy, have a chuckle, and we'll be right back with some fun trivia and some upcoming stuff. All right, guys. That's right. Better roll. Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor? I was in the Air Force stationed in Drambui off the barry coast. I used to hang out at the Magumpal Bar. It was a rough place. The sedious dive on the wharf populated with every reject and cutthroat from Bombay to Calcutta is worse than Detroit. Can I get you something? Chimofo butter layin' into the bone. Tighten me up. Tighten me. I'm sorry. I don't understand. Cut he say can't hang. Oh, it's Durtis. I speak Jive. Oh, good. He said that he's in great pain and he wants to know if you can help him. All right. Would you tell him to just relax and I'll be back as soon as I can with some medicine? Just hang loose, blood. She's gonna catch up on the rebound on the men's side. What it is, big mama, mama, mama raise no dummies. I duck a rat. Come and some slack, Jack. Jump to one half. Jump to get the help. Say can't hang. Say seven up.  Don't got no brains in here. Crane? No, thank you. I'll take it back. Like my man. Get better, telecaptain. We've got to land as soon as we can. This woman has to be gotten to a hospital. A hospital? What is it? It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now. Telecaptain, I must speak to him. Certainly. How soon can you land? I can't tell. You can tell me I'm a doctor. No, I mean I'm just not sure. Or can't you take a guess? Well, not for another two hours. You can't take a guess for another two hours? This is Captain Over speaking. Been a little bumpy up here, but we'll be past it in a few minutes. A couple points of interest. We're now flying over Hoover Dam, and a little later on we'll pass to the south of the Grand Canyon. Meanwhile, relax and enjoy your flight. Now we know what we're up against. Every passenger on this plane will have fish for dinner. We'll become violently ill in the next half hour. Just how serious is it, Doctor? Extremely serious. It starts with a slight fever, dryness of the throat, as the virus penetrates red blood cells and victim becomes dizzy. Because we experience an itchy crash, from there the poison goes to work on the central nervous system causing severe muscles spasms, followed by the inevitable grueling.  We've got fog right down to the deck, every place east of the Rockies. There's no pocket place I can land, so I'll have to come through to Chicago. Looks like I picked the wrong week. We're smoking. Don't panic. On the belt line of the automatic flight, there's a hollow tube. Now that is the manual of inflation, Doctor. Pull it out. This is due to periodic air pockets we encountered. There's no reason to become alarmed, and we hope you enjoy the rest of your flight. By the way, is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane? Both pilots. Can you fly this plane and land it? Surely you can't be serious. I am serious, and don't call me surely. Doctor, I've checked everyone. Mr. Stryker's the only one. What flying experience have you had? Oh, I flew single-engine fighters in the Air Force, but this plane has four engines. It's an entirely different kind of flying, all together. It's an entirely different kind of flying. Can't stand it anymore. I've got to get out of here. I've got to get out of here. Down, get a hold of yourself. Stryker, please let me handle this. I'll get- Get back to your seat. I'll take care of this, Doctor. The nation's the reverend moon. Read about Jehovah's Witness. Please, kids. Johnny, what do you think I got of this? This? Oh, I can make a cap. What a broach. A pterodactyl, please. How you doing, honey?  I'll turn on some air. Take a little milder, of course. That's impossible. They're all instruments. Be a real sweat. Condors, let me know when you get anything. Got a cigarette, Nelson? I can take much more of this. Looks like I picked the wrong week. Quit on filiming, sir. Would you like a little whiskey, man? Certainly not. How are the passengers doing? I want to see you, Mr. Stryker. We're running out of time. Surely, that must be something you can do. I'm doing everything I can. Just stop calling me Shirley. I know about you, but I love Barbara Billings me more and more every time I see her. Yeah, it's so funny. Because she's got such a distinct voice, too. It's so recognizable, and you think? Right. And you know what? We forgot to mention, you know, it's funny with everybody else we talked about before. Like Peter Graves, who, you know, everybody knew from Mission Impossible, was another guy who had never really done comedy. And he didn't want to do this. And he turned it down, I think, like three or four times until, I guess, I think the story is this. Kids read the script because it was sent to him and convinced him that he had to do it.  Yes. And he was great. I totally forgot to mention him when I mentioned the other guys before. Very funny, very funny. So we have a couple of trivia questions for everybody, and we'll give everyone a chance to answer if you want to play along. Bijan, why don't you go ahead and ask the first one? Okay, the first one, I think, is very good. It is, which company was the only airline to buy the film for their in-flight entertainment? So which, which, which flight could you go, which flight company could you see airplane on an airplane? We know what, we should give them a little bit of a hint because it's a little difficult. It's not, it's not an American airline. We've got, we've got one, one answer. Unfortunately, it's wrong. It's TWA, Captain Over, but it's not TWA. It's, it's a tricky one. I'll give you that. That was a good one. Anybody else want to read, anybody else want to guess? It's not an American airline. Well, I think Sarah's got her hand raised. Sarah, you want to, you want to type your answer in the chat or in the Q&A? Anybody else who wants to take a guess? They actually, they make fun of this too in the, in the, remember this part towards the end when they're watching the movie and it's another disaster movie. It's the film within the, the in-flight film is a plane crash. Oh, Rebecca guessed LL, nope. And Claire guessed LL, nope. Nope, the good guesses. The good guesses. I don't know, Sarah guessed Air France, nope. Good guess, but no. Anybody else going once, going twice? Dejan, what's the answer? It's Aeromexico, sí, muy bueno. Those flights down to Mexico City or Cozumel, I guess you could have watched Airplane, Airplane. Yep, you could have watched Airplane on an airplane. I think that would have been one of the ticket in itself just to say you watched Airplane on an airplane. Well, at least it wasn't that one. You remember the one about the, the soccer team in the Andes? I mean, thank God they- Oh, yes, alive. Yeah, that's, that one is definitely not happening. I actually saw that movie on an airplane. I couldn't believe they were showing it. And I was young, it scared the bejesus out of me. Yeah, somebody wasn't thinking, thinking straight on that. I couldn't believe it. What's the next question? All right, the next one is, which Keeping Up with the Kardashians member auditioned for a role in the film? So who on Keeping Up with the Kardashians? I don't know if any of you guys are familiar with that little show, but who- It's just like, it's like just the modern day version of Leave it to Beaver. Yes, right. Who do you think would be, who would want to be- Think about, think about that's up. Sarah got it. Oh, yes, we have a winner. We have a winner. Actually, Rebecca guessed the two sort of guys. It's a two time winner. Yeah, Bruce or now Caitlin Jenner. Caitlin Jenner. Yes, either answer will take. But yes, they, he auditioned for the lead, I believe. So. Yeah, he did. He did. I think I have a good time to remember that I was Bruce Jenner for Halloween one year. Okay. We have one more trivia question. One more trivia question. This will be multiple choice. So make it a little easier for you guys for the last one. The airline used in the movie was repainted, a repainted plane from what airline? So the airplane that they use was a repainted airplane from which airline? So your guesses are, was it TWA, American or Delta? Looks like everybody's mentioning TWA. Captain Overs says Delta. No, it's not Delta. And it's not American. If you said TWA, you are small. Daniel and Rebecca both said TWA. And I should, I can't let this go. Sarah also mentioned she added another piece of trivia. You know, the Karima Abdul-Jabbar part was supposed to be Pete Rose. Oh, wow. Yes, but baseball season was in full swing. So I guess, I guess he couldn't get away. It's a good basketball season. That's right. That's right. And it's funny because when I was a kid, I mean, I totally knew I had no idea I knew who Karima Abdul-Jabbar was, but I just thought it was a guy who looked like I'm like the kid in the movie who thinks it really is him. I was the exact opposite. I was like, nah, I can't really be him. Why would he be in a movie? He's playing basketball. You did another one of my favorite movies, which was which is the Bruce Lee movie. It was not Enter the Dragon, but he was in the unfinished Bruce Lee one where... Oh, yeah. Oh, shoot. Anybody on remember the name of that one? Yeah, I can't remember what it is now. It's the one where you find the power. Yeah, it was Bruce Lee. It was the last Bruce Lee movie because he was he was Karim's instructor. Yes. He got me in the movie. He was like one of the big boss guys. Oh my God. I can't believe I'm blanking on it. It's been a long day. And I have to also point out just because my daughter caught this. There is one cameo, which I thought was the greatest, which was Ethel Merman. And it was her last film appearance before she passed away. Ethel Merman, she was in Broadway.  And she's in for one joke. She's there for one line. I wonder how much she got in the per diem. I was Game of Death. That was the Bruce Lee movie. Game of Death, right? Sorry. Oh my God. Totally vapor locked on that. All right. Well, I want to... I think we should thank everybody for coming. This was great. We hope you enjoyed it. We have a couple of things coming up. We want to make sure you're all aware of. And you can always find this information on our website, which is virtual playhouse. So starting tomorrow, we have for streaming a great documentary called Slay the Dragon, which is about political gerrymandering. We have the booksellers. Talk a little bit about the booksellers. That's about the strand. Yeah, it's about basically the New York City book, like the storefront bookstores, and basically like book collecting. And I thought it looked really fascinating because it's all kind of about how the bookstores have changed and adapted through the kind of Amazon craze because at certain points in New York City would get judged for kind of going into a bookstore. And if you didn't ask for the right thing or the people were there just reading and didn't want to be bothered reading. And unfortunately, a lot of them went out of business but there are still a few that are still operating and how kind of the younger generation now is not reading things on an iPad or Kindle, but now prefer books. So the storefront bookstores are kind of beginning to come back. And it's really, it looks like it's very well shot and very interesting. So if you have a chance, definitely, I was just checking it out. I know I'm going to rent it and watch it. Yeah, if you're a book lover, it's definitely worth it. And we've got Fantastic Fungi coming back. Yes, yeah. This movie is unbelievable. Really, really well. And if you haven't heard about it or checked it out, give it a, it's all about mushrooms and how like their ability to kind of help the planet and all the amazing, fantastical things that they do also shot really beautifully. Because, you know, some of those mushrooms are just really pretty looking. They do a great job filming it. So if you have... It's a really, really amazing film. And then on Tuesday, this coming Tuesday, we have our classic Tuesday series. We're doing a film called Tunes of Glory. It's the 60th anniversary. It's probably not as well known as some of the others, but it's a really great film, British film with Alec Guinness and John Mills. You definitely want to check that out with John Thar. It does a really great talk and gives you a lot of information about the film, the making of and the history of it, and takes questions. That's Tuesday night. We have an author coming up. We have the book codename. I'm going to mispronounce it, but it's codenamed Helene. Yes. Is it Helene or Helene? Yeah, Helene. Helene. Helene, which is a really, really... Again, some great buzz. We have the author coming virtually to do a talk on that. And then two weeks from today, Bijan and I are going to be back and we're going to be talking about Clue. If you remember Clue with Madeline Kahn and Martin Mull, really great cast, Christopher Lloyd. That's a lot of fun. It was in theaters in the late 80s. One of my all-time favorites. You can watch it any time, day or night. I've come across it on TV. I stop and watch. Oh, and we should also... We can't forget the cat video fest. Yes. Which is exactly what it sounds like. So if you... All of this is on our website under Virtual Playhouse. So if you can check it out, if you people are looking for stuff to do while we're all making our way through this new world order that we're in waiting for things to get back to normal. There's a lot of great content on there that we're happy to bring to you. And we hope you'll check it out and we hope we'll see you back here in a couple of weeks. Any last words? No, just come check us out. And if you've got any suggestions or any movies you want to see, you can either send us an email at info at Bedford Playhouse and go on our website. Again, please, please, please, the theater shut down so any donations you can make, we really, really appreciate it and really goes to helping us and are continuing our mission of bringing arts and entertainment to the community. So tell your friends, thanks so much for coming. We really appreciate it. We love you all. And I think we've got to go land a plane, right, Dan? That's right, yeah. They're calling from the top. I hope you can have a good night. I hope you can have a good night. Have a good night, everybody. Bye, guys.


From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of AWS re-invent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS, and our community partners. Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's virtual coverage of AWS re-invent 2020. I'm John Furrier, your host with theCUBE virtual. We're not there in person, but we're going to do our job with the best remote we possibly can, we're wall-to-wall coverage on the AWS re-invent site as well as on-demand on theCUBE's new 365 platform. We've got some great power panel analysts here to dig in and discuss partner day for AWS, what it means for the customer, what it means for the enterprise, the buyer, the people trying to figure out who to buy from, and possibly new partners. How can they re-engineer and re-invent their company to partner better with Amazon, take advantage of the benefits, but ultimately get more sales. We've got Tim Crawford, Sarbite, Joel, and Dave Vellante, friends of theCUBE. We all know him on Twitter. You guys, the Posse, theCUBE Posse, thanks for coming on. I'm sure it's getting entertaining and... Wish we were hanging out drinking beer. Oh my gosh, that'd be awesome. It's great to be on theCUBE again. Glad to be here. Guys, great to have you on. I wanted to bring you on because it's a unique cross-section of perspectives. And this isn't, this is from the end user perspective. And Tim, you've been talking about the CXOs for years. You've expert in this. Sarbite, you're taking more from a cloud perspective. You've seen under the hood what's happening. Let's all put it together. If you're a partner, first question to the group. I'm a partner. Do I win with Amazon or do I lose with Amazon? First question. Tim, you want to go? Yeah, I'll jump in. I'll say, regardless, you win. You win with Amazon. I think there's a lot of opportunity for partners with Amazon. You have to pick your battles though. You have to find the right places where you can carve out a space that isn't too congested, but also isn't really kind of fettered with a number of incumbents. And so if you're looking at the enterprise space, I think that there is a ton of potential because let's face it, Amazon doesn't have all of the services packaged in a way that the enterprise can consume. And I think that leaves a lot of fertile ground for SIs and ISVs to jump in and be able to connect those dots. So I'd say it's win-win. Star B, if you're so cohesively on stage, Jesse's coming out talking about Chai, the chips and data.  How do you see Amazon as a partner? Yeah, I see Amazon as a big market for me. It's increased by sort of TAM, if you will. The one big sort of trend is that the lines between technology providers and service providers are blurred. Actually, it's flipping. I believe it will flip at some time. We will put consume technology from service providers. They are becoming technology providers actually. They are not just being pipe and power kind of cloud. They are purely software, very high sort of highly constructed machinery if you will behind the scenes with software. That's what Amazon is, a big machine, if you will. And you can leverage that and then you can help your customers achieve their business goals as a partner. I think it's a win-win. And the role of actually SIs is changing, I believe. SIs, I thought they were getting a little sidetracked by the service providers but now they have to actually change their roles the way they used to get these shrink-wrapped software and then install and configure and all that stuff. Now it's in cloud and they have to focus a little more on services. And some of the SIs are building tools for multi-cloud consumption and all that. So things are changing under this whole big shift to cloud. I mean, I think if you're an SI and you're lifting and shifting, you make a few bucks and helping people do that and deal with the tech. But I think with the real money is the business transformation. And you find the technology is there. It's another tool in the bag. But if you can change your operating model, that's going to drive telephone numbers to the bottom line. That's a boardroom discussion. That's where the real dollars are for SIs. That's why guys like Accenture are leading into the cloud big time. All right, so go ahead, Tim. I think you're absolutely right, Dave. I think that's one aspect that we have to call out is you can be one of those partners that is focused on the transaction and you'll be successful doing that, but you're absolutely right. If you focus on the long game, I think that is just like I said, completely fertile ground. And there are a lot of opportunities because historically Amazon was a Lego parts type of cloud provider, right? They provided you with the basic building blocks, which is great for web scale and startups, not so good for enterprise. And so now Amazon is starting to put together and package parts so it's more consumable by enterprises, but you still need that help.  You're going to be using other providers too. And so I think this again is where partners, they pick a primary and then they also bring in the others where appropriate. All right, I want to get into this whole riff. I have a Jerry Chen on day one. He came on a special fireside chat with me and we talked about the cloud errors before cloud, Amazon and now I'll call it post-COVID because we've seen this kind of whole new, in the cloud kind of generation. And so he said, okay, this pre-cloud, when you had Amazon generation where it's lift and shift, a lot of hybrid, and then you have everything's in the cloud, like a snowflake kind of thing. And he kind of called it the reptiles versus the amphibians.  I mean, so he kind of went on, took that another level meaning that, okay, there's always going to be hybrid, but there's a unique differentiation for being all in the cloud. You're seeing different patterns. Amazon certainly has an advantage. You see DevOps guru, that's just mining the data of their entire platform and saying, okay, yeah, do this. There's advantages for being in the cloud that aren't available hybrid. So amphibian on land and sea hybrid and then in the cloud. How do you guys see that? If you're a partner, you want to be on the new generation, what's the opportunity to capture value? You know, hybrid certainly co-exists, but in the new era. You remember Scott McNeely used to talk about car makers and car dealers, and of course, son's gone, but he used to say, we want to be a car maker. It's car dealers, they got big houses and big boats, but we're going to be a car maker. Well, I think it's some similarities here. I mean, there's a lot of money to be made as a car dealer, but you see companies like Dell, HPE, you know, they want to be car makers, obviously Google and Microsoft, but there aren't going to be a lot of successful, really big car makers in this game. Yeah, I believe, I believe, I always call that Amazon is the maker's cloud, right? So they are very developer friendly. They were very developer friendly for startups. As Tim said earlier, but now they are very developer friendly and operations friendly now actually in a way for enterprises, I believe. And the whole, the jerry cans sort of, are you all in cloud, are you sitting just in the dry land right now? I think every sort of organization is in a different sort of mature, different maturity level, but I think we are all going towards a technology consumption as a service. Mostly I think it will be off-prem. It can be on-prem in future because of Edge and all that. And on that note, I think Edge will be dominated by tier one cloud providers like crazy. People who think Edge will be nominated by telcos and all that. I think they're just smoking enough mirrors. If I may interject for a second for the folks watching that might not be old enough to know who Scott McNeely is, he's the founder of Sun Microsystems, which was bought by Oracle years ago. Yeah, basically because of mini-computed data. There's a lot of young kids out there that don't even know who Scott McNeely is. But remember. Now do your homework. Scott McNeely. You have to know who Scott McNeely also said, and because Bill Gates was dominant, Microsoft owns the tires and the gas too, and they want to own the road. So remember, Microsoft was dominating at that time. So Tim, gas, data, is that, I mean, Amazon might have everything there. I was going to go back to the comment. McNeely came out with some really, really good analogies over his tenure at Sun. And Sun had some great successes, but unfortunately cloud is not as simplistic as buying a car and having the dealership and the ecosystem of gas and tires and the rest. You have to think about the whole journey. And that journey is incredibly complicated, especially for the enterprise that's coming from legacy footprints, monolithic application stacks, and trying to understand how to make that transition. It's almost in a way more analogous to you're used to riding a bike and now you're going to operate a semi. And so how do you start to put all of the pieces into place to be able to make that transition? And it's not trivial. You have to figure out how your culture changes, how your processes changes. There are a lot of connected parts. It's not as simple as the ecosystem of tires and gas. We have to think about how that data stream fits in with other data streams, where analytics are going to be done. What about tying back to that system of record that is going to stay on a legacy platform? Oh, and by the way, some of that has to still stay on-prem. It can't move to the cloud yet. So we have this really complicated, diverse environment that we have to manage, and it's only getting more complicated. And I think that's where the opportunity comes in for the SIs and ISVs is step into that, understand that journey, understand the transitions. I don't believe that enterprises, at least in the near term, let alone short term, will be all in cloud. I think that that's more of a fantasy than reality. There is a hybrid state that is going to be transitory for some period of time, and that's where the big opportunity is. I think you're right on, Tim. I think just to double down on that point, just to bring that to another level is, Dave, you remember back in the days when PCs were the boom, many computers where most clients there was just getting started, there was a whole hype cycle on hard drives, right? Hard drives were the thing. Now, if you look at today, there's more observability startups than I could count, right? At this point, this monolithic breakdown and componentizing, decomposing monolithic apps or environments with microservices is complex. So to me, the thing that I see is that, that I can relate to is when I was breaking in in the 80s, you had the mainframes as being the young gun. I'm like, okay, mainframes are old. That's monolithic client servers, a different paradigm than you had PCs and internet working. I think all of that change is happening so fast right now. It's not like over a 10 years to Tim's point. It's like mainframes to iPhones, it's happening in like a three years, right? Imagine crunching all that complexity and change down to a short window. I think Amazon has kind of brought that to, I'm just riffing on that, but that's fine. Yeah, you're absolutely right, John. But I think there's another piece and we can use a very specific example to show this. Another piece that we have to look at is we're trying to simplify that environment. And so a good place to simplify that is when we look at serverless and specifically around databases. Historically, I had to pick the database architecture that the applications had right on. Then I have to have the infrastructure underneath and manage that appropriately so that I have both the performance as well as security, as well as architecture. And I have to scale that as needed. Today, you can get databases as a service and not have to worry about the underpinnings. You just worry about the applications and how those data streams connect to other data streams. And so that's the direction that I think things are going is, and we see this across the enterprise. We're looking for those packaged, packaged might be a generalized term, but we're looking for a more packaged scenario and opportunity for enterprises rather than just the most basic building blocks. We have to start putting together the preformed applications and then use those as larger chunks. And this is the opportunity for SIs. I was talking before about business transformation. If you take Tim's database example, you don't need somebody anymore to set up your database, to tune it. I mean, that's becoming autonomous. But if you think about the way data pipelines work and the way organizations are structured where everything goes into this monolithic data lake and it's like generic content coming in, the generic data where the business owner has to get in line and beg a data scientist or a quality engineer or to ingest a new data source. And it's just like the old data warehouse days where I think there's tremendous opportunities for SIs to go and completely re-architect the data models. Sarbjit, this is something you and I were talking about on Twitter. It's why I like what Snowflake's doing. It's kind of what AWS is trying to do with the elastic glue views. But there's a whole business transformation opportunity for SIs, which I just think is huge number. I think we all talk, go ahead, sorry. Now if I finish your thought. Yeah, I think we all talk about, we all agree on one thing, that the future is hybrid for, at least for next 10 years, if not more. And hybrid is hard. The data proximity is very important. That means latency between different workloads, right? That's super important. And I talk about this all the time, almost in every conversation I have about such scenario, is that there are three types of applications. Every enterprise has systems of record, systems of engagement, and the systems of innovation. And my theory of cloud consumption tells me that sooner or later systems of record will move into SAS world. That's how I see it. There's no other way around, I believe. And the systems of engagement or systems of differentiation, sometimes I call it, they will leverage a lot of platform as a service. And in that context, I've said it many times, that to be a best of the breed platform as a service, you have to be best of the breed infrastructure as a service provider. And that's Amazon. And that's also a zero to some extent. And Google is trying to do that, too. So the feature sort of a gap between number one cloud and two and three is pretty huge, I believe. I think Amazon is doing great. Data democratization through serverless. I just love serverless for that. I think serverless- Serverless is a winning formula. There's no doubt about serverless. I totally agree. But I think one of the things that Amazon has done is they've taken serverless. They brought, they're putting all the IaaS and the chips and then moving all the value up to the service layer, which gives them the advantage over others because everyone else is trying to compete down here, they're going to be purpose-built. If you look at what Apple's doing with the chips and what Amazon's doing, they're going to kind of have this chip to chip scenario and then the middleware in between is the containerization and the microservices and Lambda. So if you're a developer, it's programmable at that point. That could be a lock spec, I think, for Amazon. It absolutely could be, John, but I think there's another aspect here that we have to touch on, especially as we think about partners and where the opportunities come in. And that is that we often talk about non-cloud to cloud, how to get from on-prem to cloud. But the piece that you also have to bring into the conversation is the edge-to-cloud continuum. And so I think if you start to look at some of the announcements this week from AWS, you start looking at some of the new instance types that are very AI focused. You look at the two new form factors for outposts, which allows you to bring cloud to a smaller footprint within an on-premises situation, different local zones. And then the other piece that I think is really interesting is their announcements around ECS and EKS anywhere, being able to take cloud and Kubernetes across the board. And so the challenge here is, as I mentioned earlier, complexity is paramount. It's a concern for enterprises just moving to cloud. You start layering in the edge-to-cloud continuum and it just, it gets exponentially more complicated. And so Amazon's not gonna be the one to help you go through that, not because they can't, but frankly, just the scale of help that is gonna be needed amongst enterprises is just not there. And so this is really where I think the opportunity lies for the SIs and ISVs and partners. Well, you heard how Jassy defined a hybrid, John, in the article that you wrote when you did your one-on-one with him, Tim, in the analyst call, where you answered my question and then I want to bring in Antonio Neary's comment. But Jassy basically said, look, we see cloud bring, we're going to bring AWS to the edge and we see data centers, this is another edge node. And Antonio Neary, after HPE's pretty good quarter, came out and said, well, we heard the public cloud provider talking about hybrid, welcome. You know, I can't- Yeah, welcome to the party. Yeah, they were first acquainted. And then Gelbin here jumped on that big time. But yeah, look it, hybrid, Tim nailed it. Complexity is the evil, is friction, is one friction area. If complexity can be mastered by the edge provider, closest to the customer, that's going to be valuable for partners. And then we can do that. Amazon's going to have to continue to remove the friction in putting that together, which is why I'm nervous about their channel partners, because if I'm a partner, I ask myself, how do I make money with Amazon? At the end of the day, it's money-making, right? So how can I be successful? Am I going to sell more in the marketplace? Will the customer consume it through there? Is it friction or is it complex? So this notion of complexity and friction becomes a double-edged sword, Tim, on both sides. So we've got five minutes left. Let's talk about the bottom side, complexity, friction. So you're absolutely right, John. And the other thing that I would say is for the partner, you have to look beyond what Amazon is selling today. Look at where the customers are going. And Dave, I think you and I were both in an analyst session with Andy Jassy several years ago, where one of the analysts asked the question, so what's your perspective on hybrid cloud? And his response candidly was, well, we have this particular service. And really what he was talking to is a service that helps you on board to Amazon's public cloud. There was not an acknowledgement of hybrid cloud at the time. But look at how things have changed just in a short few years. And I understand where Jassy's coming from, but this just exemplifies the fact that if you're a partner, you have to look beyond what Amazon is saying and think to how the customer is evolving, how the enterprise is evolving and get yourself ahead of them. That will position you best for both today and as you're building for the future. That's a great point. Dave, complexity on buying, I'm a customer. You can throw me a marketplace all you want, but if I'm not going to be tied into my procurement, how I'm consuming technology to Tim's point, Amazon isn't the only game in town. I got other suppliers. Yeah, well certainly for some technology suppliers, they basically can bring their on-prem estate if it's big enough into the cloud. What is big enough? That's a big question here. Guys like, Red Hat's big enough. We know that Nutanix, Pure, they're sort of the next layer down. Can they, do they have enough of a customer base that they can bring into the cloud, create that abstraction layer? And then you got the born in the cloud guys, Snowflake, Columio are two good examples. So you've got the technology partners and then the SIs and consultants. And again, I see that as the really big opportunity as Tim points out. Amazon is acknowledging that hybrid is real, in a newly defined way. They're going out to the edge. Fine, you want to call data center to the edge. How are they going to support those installations? How are they going to make sure that they're running properly, that they're connected to the business process? Those are, that's a SI white space, huge. Guys, we have to wrap it up right now, but I just, and we'll get everyone to go a little lightning round, quick sound bite on the phrase with them, which stands for what's in it from me. So if I'm a partner, I'm a customer, I look at Amazon, I think, what's in it from me? What's in it from me as a customer? What do I get out of this? Yeah, having done like more than 100 data center audits and I've seen what mess is out there and having done quite a few migrations to cloud, migrations are the messiest piece, right? And it doesn't matter if you're migrating 10% or 20 or 30, it doesn't matter how much you're migrating. It's a messy piece. And you cannot do with our partners that work actually. You need that know-how. You need to infuse that education into your organization, how to consume cloud, how to make sense of it, how you change your processes and how you train your people. So it touches all the products, people and processes. So all three tiers, you got to have partners on your side to make it. Hey, I'll go quick. And Tim, I'll give you the last word. Complexity is cash. Chaos is cash. Follow the complexity you'll make cash. Yeah, you said it, Dave. I think any way that you can help an enterprise simplify and if you're the enterprise, if you're the customer, look for those partners that going to help you simplify the journey over time, that's where the opportunity really lies. Okay guys, expert power panel here on KubeLive program part of AWS re-invent virtual coverage, bringing you all the analysis from the experts, digital transformations here. What's in it for me as a partner customer, help me make some money, master complexity and serve my customer. This is the Kube, thanks for watching. From around the globe, it's the Kube.


to readjust them. Would you go and move that one little more to the top of the desk so you can move those? Yes. We've got right here for the one running, Mark. The plane came circling around the place, and it kept being these blinks like this. Why is it that somebody photographing with a plane like that? President, you remember Mark Mulroy? Yes. I know you, sir. Nice to see you. Thank you very much for taking this time with us, and for these distinguished persons. Great, thanks for your work. Thank you very much. Just leave this with you, too, is any body breasts for yourself. This is Mr. Don Barclay, the publisher's sponsor. My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you, Jim. We've taken a time to do this. And if you would step behind the president a little bit, we'll bring in the others. All right. Are you ready? Yes. First law from the Atlanta Braves. Mr. Dale Murphy, and his wife, Nancy. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, President. Nice to meet you. I had you stopped by Atlanta. And if you would go, I'd just sign a baseball and someone would make it for that. Pleased to have you. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Sure. Get an actual bedroom. Oh, OK. Here we go. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Very good. Heardless champion, student garage king, or husband garland. Hello. How are you? Yes. Hello, sir. Did you get us all? Someone almost as tall as a wife. The white forest university chipperies, and his friends at the beach. Hello. Nice to see you. Nice to see you. Thank you. It's David. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Nice to play a Rory Sparrow and his wife, Jackie. Hello. Nice to see you, President. From Kenya all the way from Kenya. Where's one of his wife, Phyllis? There we are. Nice to see you. Nice to see you. Nice to see you. Nice to- Good to check your hello. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Nice to- Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Ac些 flair from Los Angeles filed one of his wife, Janice. Nice to see. Yeah. Nice to- Nice to see you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Daddy She-in, the great sneer. President Seth Until fine, how are you? Good fine. Thank you. Nice to take your time out today. Well, please do it. You used to see me yesterday. Really? Yeah. one sand trap. Of course, we're the first time I've played since a year ago. We're supposed to throw now, that's great. Thank you so much. After the Cincinnati day, it was Reggie Woodlinton and his wife, Marianna. It's just a computer.  And I saw, sir, this is what's supposed to be. This is Patricia Hall. June Mitchell. Don't forget. June Mitchell. Yes, sir.  And Jane Delta, sir. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. One lighter round over here, please. Thank you, sir. Yeah, I want you to step on it a little bit. 6'8". OK, that's exactly what I'm saying. That's great. It's very nice. Congratulations to all of you. Thank you. Mr. President, I was a wonderful New Year's greeting you gave the other day.  And step on the other side, please. OK. Just move it a little closer. That's good. That's good. OK. There we go. Total po. Perfect. Thank you very much. I think you've all done this before. Can't imagine why. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. OK. Here we go again. That's great. And one more time for him. And click at the mark and down bar. Step in the last week. Mark, would you mind stepping back to the center behind the lovely lady? That's a lovely lady. Thank you, Mr. President. It doesn't change. OK. Here we go. Thank you very much. Great. Now, for one last shot, ladies and gentlemen, let me get to the original booth again if I'm not mistaken. This guy is very tight around the president. They're very close around him. If this were late 87, I could all call your photo subject of the year. Or the jury will be out. But I think you're going to make it. That's great. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Well, again, as I say, the longer you're doing it, the more it's true. Let's see. Who are they? Who are they? I thought you had something more to say. You know there was a... There was at least a... Not to the sense of humor. Babe Ruth. Babe Ruth, I mean, in the Chicago and the World Series, then stepped up to the plate and pointed to the left field fence and then hit it over the field fence. And that he had promised that he had visited a little boy that heard about him once. It was his third time at that and he hadn't got one. And he was doing this for that. How's it going? We had to start at the picture field in the wheel, but the government tried to do those things. And so this meeting with parents... How? It's a good thing. It's a good thing. I have an opportunity to come to a dinner with Mubarak and so I've been invited to someone to express my appreciation for that later on in this month. But hopefully you'll remember when I'm there. Thank you. Speaking and spreading it around the world. We wish you a happy new day. The place that had gone out was a policeman waiting for him at the bar. And the policeman said, you hit on a car with this. He said, I'm sorry. He said, what do you want to do about it? He said, I figured it would go away. It's nice to see you again. I had dinner with you and the Duke of Vets just left the building. I was fortunate to sit at your table. I didn't know if you would remember, but I did. I know. Thank you. It's nice to see you again. Have a nice year. Good luck to you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. We'll let you get back to work. Literally. Thanks again for having me. Thank you very much. I still don't know what's his tolerance to you, right? We have one more photo. Hines. Hines, why don't you do it? I shouldn't know this better than anyone, but I don't do it very well. Thank you. You're on the wrong side of the camera. When you have this face, you're still on the other side of the camera. Thank you very much, sir. Okay. I'm honored to meet you, sir. Nice to see you. Appreciate being here. Thank you, sir. Bruce Browick, Mr. President. Happy New Year. And your certificate. And him, he had that to you. How do you do? Good to see you. Hi, Jeff Holm. Sorry about the cold hands, but it's freezing out there. I know I've been out twice today. I don't know why I went out. I'll tell you about it. Or for Chuck Hobbs. Mr. President, Bob Johnson. Nice to meet you, sir. There you go. Thank you very much. How do you do, Mr. President? Kerry Keller House. Nice to see you, Wibbs. Thank you very much. Mr. President, I'm Helen Cobb. I'm going to be there next week. Yes, Monday. Very good. Enjoy yourself. You're welcome. Mr. President, Jim Nusser from Cambridge, Massachusetts. Mary Sterling from Kansas City. Thank you. David Webster from Chicago. Thank you, sir. I'm the end of this operation, sir. I'm John Wynne, glad to meet you, sir. My pleasure. Nice to see you. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Well, I think we take it that you were here. I'm not always like that. I'll let you all squeeze into it. Thank you, Mr. President. We're all supposed to go in now. Now, welcome to the White House. It's a pleasure to have this opportunity to meet with you and your families. As you know, the White House fellowship is exposed to some of our nation's most promising leaders. And that means you, the government in action. I remember when I first saw the government in action. Maybe you should speak about that. But that's when I saw how right Jefferson was, when he said that government, that government, governs best, that governs least. It's not true, by the way, that I was president and heard him say it. My country will always need leaders of courage, conviction, experience, and foresight. The President's Commission on White House Fellowships was started precisely to help meet this need. And it has. I'm proud to have so many former fellow serving in my administration. People like National Security Advisor Colin Powell, Assistant Secretary of State Mike Armacost, and Deputy Marine Maritime Administrator Elaine Chao. You can be proud to follow in their footsteps and in the footsteps of other outstanding White House fellows like General Pete Dawkins, New Mexico Governor Gary Carruthers, and Los Angeles Times publisher Tom Johnson. Your selection as a White House fellow is a recognition of your abilities and accomplishments, but it's also a challenge. You must continue to excel and believe. You must use your fellowship experiences to do even more with your life. And I just learned that you are expected to be in the Soviet Union in the spring. Shortly before somebody I know is supposed to be there. Well, I'll be looking for you to brief me and tell me what it's all about. Wait, how do you do that? Sure. Well, I can see the pride of your families today, and I know that you're grateful to your families. They've supported you and encouraged you. This year especially, they understand the demands made on your time and your attention. And I think we owe them a debt of gratitude for sharing you with the nation. So to all of you, fellows and families alike, let me say, keep up the good work this year and beyond. Congratulations to all of you. God bless you. Thank you. Well, this is better than after dinner speech. Would you care for some punch? Yes. Don't just stand there. How do you do, Mr. President? Hello, thanks. California.


And welcome everyone to this session, which promises to be a really interesting one. It's advisor, broker, consultant, distributed leadership roles that steer rapid learning technology adoption. And we have four contributors today, but I think most of the presentation is going to be given by Tim Neumann. And he's joined by fellow colleagues from UCL, Leo Havman and Clive Young. And really looking forward to hearing your presentation and your particularly analytic approach to looking at distributed leadership. So over to you, Tim. Well, I hope it's analytic. So welcome everybody. So I will take you through a number of slides that you should see on your screen now. I'll keep the introductions short. Clive is the team leader for digital education advisory at UCL. So that's a small team that advises people really. And Leo is one of the digital education advisors in Clive's team. Myself, I am associated to Clive's team, but I'm actually employed as a lecturer at the UCL Institute of Education, one of the faculties for which I'm also performing the role of a faculty learning technology lead. We had quite a bit to go through. I will affect the construct a story throughout the pandemic and how we evolved and how new roles came into being, but then we'll focus hopefully on four specific role profiles and what we can learn from that, which should be quite interesting. I do have a few takeaways for you to take home after the end of the session. And if technology works, then the slides should have just been tweeted under my account. So you can download them and you'll find more links there. So when the pandemic hit, we were not really starting from scratch. Every university across the country or any other organization, further education, whatnot, had already engaged with learning technology to some degree, I assume. That's no different to us. So we were not starting from scratch. And what you see on the screen now is that we had the digital education department, which comes under the wings of what we call information services division. So it's effectively the techie guys and the digital education team had like four or five sub teams and advisory is a big part of that. So that's where Clive teams were situated. Then not within ISD, we have an academic development team called Arena and they do all the teacher development stuff and so on. But we did coordinate and collaborate as well before the pandemic, but there was a slight barrier between the teams as it normally happens. These are the central teams. Now, the departmental teams might have had their own local learning technologists. Most departments did not actually. We did have an institution-wide e-learning champions network and some other people were collaborating and so on. But there seemed to be a pretty big barrier. We didn't really know centrally what people were doing in their departments and probably also vice versa. But overall UCL has never been a full online institution, very much face-to-face oriented. So that's the starting point. When we all had to pivot to online learning, we had to move fast, obviously. So there were a lot of opportunities to grab there. Firstly, there were some central roles added to the team and these were roles that were long-sought. We added learning designers who were ray, which we didn't have before, but suddenly we found the money because these type of people were needed. But then we also launched a big assessment project and enhanced media and so on. And that was centrally, but locally as well. Faculty's added learning technology leads, departments added connected learning leads and every department had COVID mitigation coordinators and so on. And these three roles were suddenly appearing in every department and that is then really a centralized cascading idea of communication. So we suddenly had people who we could easily identify in each department, in each faculty and the communication has been strengthened to a great deal. I mean, it might have looked very top down also, but thanks to these new structures, we also had a way to feed information bottom up, upwards the chain. So great opportunities to establish new structures. Now then when we hit the winter lockdown, so that was 2020, 2021, so at the turn of the year, we were taking some time to reflect and analyze the current situation. And it was particularly myself who did a bit of analysis, both in my own faculty, the Institute of Education, but also for UCL as a whole. And I had engaged previously in an analysis based on these 10 areas, which I have adapted from Garrison and Kanuka's nine areas that I identified was as crucial for technology adoption. And you can read more on these links on the slide. We presented on this in 2018, so you can now see the differences on how this evolved. And it's actually good to have this kind of analytical framework and reuse it time and time again because then you also have a longitudinal component and can see how things change, which is really interesting because then you do not lose all the good aspects that you did in the past. And I'll come to that at a later point, but really crucially from the technology adoption and from the advice on learning technology perspective were these four role profiles that you currently see on the screen. So in the arena team, the academic developers, they were leading on teaching and teaching approaches. The Digital Education Advisors, Clive's team, was leading on policy implementation issues. It's more than that, but this is a core area which was effectively owned by that team. The Faculty Learning Technology Lead already distributed in the, we have 11 faculties at UCL. They provided leadership in learning technology in their faculties and each faculty has at least one department, sometimes seven, eight, or I don't know how many actually. In the departments we had connected learning leads that were sort of reported or being coordinated by the Faculty Learning Technology Lead to provide the leadership in the departments. And with these four roles, we ran focus groups. We disguised them as panel discussions in order to automatically have them as kind of professional development events, but essentially these were focus groups for us to collect data in order to help us with our analysis. And on the next four slides, I'll tell you a little bit about what we learned from these. So Arena, as mentioned, they are providing teaching practice development and their leadership remit was really to make large-scale changes to the teaching practice at UCL overall. And I think it's best really to distill what came out of the focus groups in the final question that we asked the focus group participants, which was, do you have any tips for your colleagues or for teachers, tutors and so on? What do you want them to do? Or how to help? There was a question on the sharing slides. Go to my Twitter feed, and I'll actually paste the link towards the end of the session as well. So the key tips from the Arena group was trust your students and to lead them because their students can actually take up some of what you're teaching and become partners in learning. And then also connect on a human level. Humanize it, because especially in a panic situation where we did not have the face-to-face interaction, people still need to see the person behind and they will appreciate that. And this is what keeps engagement going and what prevents dropouts, really, and prevents frustration and so on. Now, the digital education advisors, again, the main remit was to advise on pedagogic use of technology, but then also to embed good practice and organizational policies institution-wide. So these were the broad, big advice areas in learning technology for the whole, that were applicable to the whole institution. And the key tips were, do number your course content or your course activities. Provide some structure and put numbers to the individual steps and then specify the expected durations for each activity in order to clarify expectation because that will, in the absence of the immediacy of what we have face-to-face, you need a bit more facilitative structure in order to clarify expectations of what we have face-to-face. You need a bit more facilitative structure, scaffolding, as we call it, and numbering of steps and providing the anticipated learning time helps a great deal. So structure and navigation there. But also be mindful of over-provision. It's easy to overload learners with activities and so on, I have never done online learning before. And we tend to overload the students this way and then they get stressed out and we do not want to do that. Yeah, so the faculty learning technology leads, again, mentioned they were in their faculties and their key tips were, if you don't know, ask. Your job is to be an academic not a technologist but then also simplify. And they observe that tutors often don't need choice or don't want choice because it's too complicated. They want what's appropriate for their context, they're currently finding themselves. And then follow a model or a shared approach if you have one because it also helps with consistency and replicability, scalability. And finally, videos do not need a high production value. Focus on a good structure and focus on what you do well and it does not need to look like a broadcast from the BBC. The connected learning leads, again, they were doing their stuff in their localized departments and their key tips were, find out what students think and strive for consistency in an S-wide group as you can manage, program team or maybe the whole department. Make your path create a learning experience. Don't ignore the past and this is what I mentioned earlier. We have done really great stuff in the past. Don't forget about it, especially when you're onboarding new people, when new tutors come onboard, induct them into what has happened before so that they don't need to reinvent the wheel. But most importantly, find out what works for you and show students that you care. So, and there are good comments coming in in the YouTube channel. I tend to ignore this for now but let's summarize. So the focus group summary, well, if I wanted to summarize this in as few words as possible, then I would like to highlight that all of the groups collect the importance of networking and coordination of working together with each other, finding the right partner who can solve your issues and then brokering the contact between tutors and the person who can help you. So building a network is crucially important for those distributed leadership roles that requires knowing who can do what and then also passing this information on. But the most important thing, even when we talked about technology in the focus groups, the talk always revolved on people. And that, in my view, is a key aspect of being a leader. And when you're starting on your journey as a learning technologist and you're probably focused on a particular project and so on, keep in mind that when you are taking over leadership then it's really about managing people because you need to get people to do some stuff, sometimes things that the people themselves do not want to do. So leadership, I've listed a few aspects on how people deployed their leadership and you can read through them on your own. There are things like expertise information which is kind of stagey bit. I'm the expert and I'm telling you what to do but most, more often than not, it's about trust, empathy, empowering people, leading by example and inspire people. So these kind of soft things. In my own leadership training I was doing my master's, I heard about butterflies. We want people to evolve from caterpillars into the most beautiful butterfly. A fly if you have a moth in the group. Right, so in terms of career opportunities and thanks for the comments in the feed. In terms of career opportunities you can read it for yourself. There are organizations who can help you but the typical digital education advisor of faculty, learning, technology, lead role is really what all looks after. The connected learning leads, they were all established academics so they probably find more meaning in the advanced HE, HEA fellowship scheme and then for the arena type of people, education, development, there are CDAR who also have a fellowship scheme. But I would emphasize that digital education leadership is not an exclusive domain of the learning technology profession. There are people from all sorts of angles coming into that but that is actually just emphasizing the message of old overall. So two slides left, conclusions. The first bit of the conclusion is this analysis activity according to these ten areas there is really useful to identify gaps but also identify areas for this distributed leadership. Where do I need to place the people to lead on the distributed aspects? So this analysis activity is really worthwhile doing. And finally, interview your distributed leaders so these focus group activities they are really great and they give you so much information about leadership development. And finally, leadership or distributed leadership really correlates with aspects that are tackled in the CMOALT scheme, HEA fellowship scheme, CDAR fellowship scheme. So there is lots of correlation going on. And what we found overall this distributed leadership of placing people at different points provides us with a structure that helps us adapt continually because we are totally aware that change won't stop. Even when we get back to some form of normal this normal will be different and evolution will keep going on. And that's the importance of having a leadership structure that helps respond to this new context. So there are the links where you can find more information and I will stop talking there so that we can have a few moments for discussion. Thank you. Thanks very much, Tim, for a really interesting talk and for keeping to time. So just looking through the comments that have been coming in certainly a question from Peter Bryant early on which I wonder whether we can have up on the screen that was asking about where does agency fit into this structured approach? This is probably a point where I can also bring in my colleagues, Leo and Clive. And that is perhaps a good question for Clive if you want to tackle that. Yeah, Leo made a point in the chat saying a lot of what we have to do is through persuasion onboarding people into some of these discourses and helping them move forward. So in terms of leadership we don't have a direct command and control. So the agency of people is always critical to what we're doing. One of the things that we've found in now is as Tim said, the environment has expanded a lot so that community is now huge. So our role then is to sort of like central people and how do we kind of manage that? How do we organize that community? How can we turn it into a community of practice? What kind of guidance do they need from us? And in some extent they are running ahead of us in many areas and we're sort of kind of catching up. So that is something we are trying to kind of get our heads around. People have learned so much over the last 18 months and it's really to some extent consolidated in that and learning from each other and sharing and so on. It's all kind of normal community practice stuff but in such a distributed community how is that going to work in practice? That's our challenge next I think. Thank you Clive. As seen in the chat there were also lots of echoing of the tips that came out of the focus groups on digital learning. So it was good to see and also appreciation of the leadership skills. There are really nice set of leadership qualities that you showed on the slide as well. Sorry if I can interrupt that because I just spotted a comment in the YouTube chat about other literature. I mean this is probably not terribly new stuff but it does confirm what has been written before and when I started reading about leadership and so on I find myself always going back to a book from 1994 that is How Long 27 Years From Now by Greg Kearsley Education Technology Leadership or however that's called. So this was one of the early learning technology focused leadership books and in 27 years many of these things haven't changed very much. Interesting to know. I think there's a kind of a something that's come out of preparing for this presentation actually is how do we help people develop in these areas. As Tim said there's many, many different people involved with different kind of roles, different job descriptions and so on but how can we help them to kind of move forward professionally in these particular areas. We do quite a lot in CEMO for example but that's really just part of the story of how we do it. And this is something again it's something where I know there's not answers but more questions but how can we help people to see a path forward and recognise the skills that they have acquired over the last 18 months. There's a question related to that from Deborah Arnold which we can perhaps get up on the screen which is to what extent was distributed leadership supported and recognised by the formal institutional leadership. Hello Deborah. I think one of the things that I would note about that is that the new roles that were created were actually referred to as leads. So the faculty learning technology leads and the connected learning leads in the departments. And so it was seen I think really key by the formal institutional leadership that these roles had a kind of a leadership role to play despite not necessarily being managing colleagues. Yeah the naming of these roles is very deliberate. The actual, the way they were appointed though was through the you know through the departmental system so it's you know calls to heads of departments who nominated people and so on so there's a kind of buy-in from the institutional point of view right from the outset. And when the faculty learning technologies came in eventually departments would give some funding to start them off they eventually had to fund those. So again there's a commitment from the from the faculties you know and when people have to pay real money for it then you can see there's a commitment from the faculty level. If I may come in here because I am performing the role of faculty learning technology lead and I had a very similar role before so in some way my role was just renamed but this formal recognition that you had effectively equivalent in other faculties that gave some form of well authority really so people would suddenly listen to what I say and I would not need to go to them begging to listen to me and begging to you know provide advice to help them really but they were coming to me and I actually had to change my own leadership style approach at this point because I did not really want to be seen as this authoritative figure to tell people what to do and that effectively is something that comes through in the words empathy and trust building and so on so it's really trying to be on to portray yourself as being on the side of the academics and really try to make life better for everybody while acknowledging the difficulties and then trying to figure out what to do about them. Thank you, thanks Tim for sharing that. Clive did you have something else to add? I'm just going to say that although all what's said is true we do actually have a slightly kind of guidance role in there as well we have obviously university policies around things like accessibility and the baseline around the virtual learning environment and that's the thesis of areas that we're quite heavily into so as well as trying to get everyone kind of moving on we're trying to try for the students this kind of cohesive experience as well so there's a number of different aspects of it we're guiding people along a particular path but we have a kind of idea of what path often we want people to go down in some areas. Is that right Leo? I think that's fair to say but I think that there's a lot of I think what we're trying to do is provide a structure within which there's quite a lot of flexibility. Thank you we've come to the end of our time here there was another question in the chat which hopefully you can from Matt East you can pick up in discord after the session but I will thank you again for a really interesting presentation lots for us to think about and discuss in discord after the session Thank you Thank you


Hi, as a writer and editor in Brooklyn with ColorLines.com, which has been working on racial justice issues since 1998. And one of the goals of the site is to give readers an opportunity to take action. Big question for us today, all these bright people in a room with name cards and laptops is, what's the action needed? Emily's just called us to think about closing the investment gap and the understanding gap between journalists and technologists and these other circles I've mentioned. What about action in the Yokai Benkler sense of acting on misinformation and responding to it effectively online? Lots of calls to action. Kai Wright is going to help us think about this from his perspective. Thanks. Well, sadly, I don't know how much I'll succeeded that. I actually come at this with a set of questions for folks here. Because before we get to the action question, I have questions about the broader problem. So when we're talking about truth and truthiness and in media, I think we first have to ask, whose truth matters and what are its boundaries? So I'll start with an anecdote. So this must have been, I think, probably late 2006, early 2007. I remember I was at a friend's wedding, old high school friend, right. And he is a guy, didn't have a lot of politics. He doesn't care one way or the other. This left-right stuff, he was just going about his business, had some investments, was making good money, felt pretty good about the world. And we were having a conversation. And I was like, money came up somehow. And I said, oh, yeah, it's tough out there, right? This was 2006, 2000. He said, what are you talking about? You're on the moon. It's great out there. I'm having my stocks are up. My houses were a whole lot of money. Everything is fabulous. But everything that I'd been reporting on and in the networks I was in for the past decade, it felt like a recession. And that's because I was reporting in black communities about what was going on with homes and what was going on with credit and what was going on with jobs. And it was still in the 2001 recession. And so I tell that story to say that we both had facts. And they were both accurate. But the truth, where were we? And I think news media has done a very poor job of including the entire truth because it's only looking at a narrow set of facts and a narrow set of sources. So yes, we are in a crisis right now, I think because of the fast moving news cycle in all of us who help move it faster. Present company included, right? On people who wish to tell lies and assert the mistruth. That's plain. And that is a crisis that we have to deal with and that we're talking a lot about here. But I also want us to talk about how do we broaden the world of facts? And this is an old conversation. This is not new to the internet. How do we broaden the world of facts? And how do we broaden the world of facts, of facts once we know them that matter? So to take another example from the economy discussion, Robo-signing. Everybody at this point knows what Robo-signing is, right? Tell us. So when all of the attorney generals just settled with the five largest bags for the fraudulent documents they filed in courts when they were foreclosing on folks in judicial and states that required a judge to prove a foreclosure. That is a fact that has been out there since foreclosures started. And in places like the New York Times, Gretchen Borgeson has been writing about it since, you know, gotta be 08, and I'm guilty as well. I was covering the foreclosure crisis and folks were telling me about it, but these weren't the set of facts. As a reporter I was supposed to be looking for. The conversation we were supposed to be having at the time was whether or not people are irresponsible borrowers, right? So journalism debated at great length, what are they not irresponsible borrowers?  So that then has consequential, and this is now how I guess we can get back to my lens on the actions question that I wanna have is what we're trying to do at Kullalines is bring more people's facts into the public debate so we can broaden what we're talking about, right? So, and you know, so the web is great, and this is just a one-on-one point, right? Because more people get to participate. I have a lot of microphone that are, we can build a community and lift them up and they can start saying in 2006, hey wait, but stuff's kind of bad out here actually. I'm curious, and this is my question, is how can we, what are all of the new tools we can use to broaden the conversation and broaden the sets of facts that are available beyond just policing the lies that we're already fighting? What are the tools for our community where we can broaden the set of facts? Should I be taking a question? Yes, why not? Why not? Let's take one, if you see one that's actually looking for you, then yes, yeah. That's what. Yeah. I'm Dan Schultz, I just wanted to make sure I understand. So when you say more people's facts that has the potential of bringing sort of, bring up the question, what do we mean by fact here? Shouldn't, like, does it make sense to have lots of different facts? Shouldn't, you know, our history is really relative and sort of, what are the more important things? So that's a great segue to Kathleen. What I'll say about it is that I, my assertion is not that facts are relative. You know, there is a, I believe that we can, things are knowable and they can be known and we, and there is a critical problem right now of people trying to muddy up things that are knowable. And the nature of journalism today makes it difficult for us to do our job or ret this traditional understanding of our job of policing the facts. But there's a broader job we need to be playing in the whole sets of facts that never make it into the conversation that are definitive. So if the sets of facts that I had been seeing about the economy in 2005 and 2006 and 2007 were part of the discussion around the economy at the time, we would have been having a very different debate over, perhaps we would have never arrived at the foreclosure crisis, right? But those sets of fact, the people who knew those things weren't legitimate and in the eyes of mainstream journalism and the facts themselves weren't relevant to the conversation we were supposed to be having. So how do we broaden the conversations we're having? Truth is not just about what are the fact points. Truth is about also what are we talking about in the first instance. That's it. Thank you so much, Kai. It's fantastic. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.


Good morning everyone and Dr. Sumaya, I am the Radiology resident at MNR Medical College in the hospital. My co-author is Dr. Manjiri ma'am and Dr. Kiran sir, I will be presenting paper on the role of MD City in Detection and Characterization of the Primary Focal Evaluations, Introduction. Malditector Sinti has become the primary major majority for detection and characterization of the Focal Evaluations. The visibility of the Evaluations depends on the density difference between the Legion and the normal labor. The lesions that contain Cascification, Sixty Components and Fat are better detected on non-enhanced CT. In contrast enhanced CT, it helps in determining the location, number and characterization of the Focal Evaluations. In patients with cancer, it is better characterized, better differentiated between the benign and the metastasis for the staging and management and to avoid the unnecessary biopsies. The aim of the study is to study the role of the multi-tectocity as a diagnostic modality for primary focal evolutions. Objective of the study is to classify the Focal Evaluations into benign or malignant, characterize the lesion according to the enhancement pattern, process the number, site, extent of involvement of the primary focal likations. Material and methods, this is the prospective study conducted at the radiology department in the MNR Medical College and Hospital. Informed concern was taken prior to the study. The CT scan is done by the 16-slide CT scanner GE Health. Dual and triple phases are obtained whenever necessary. The lesions are analyzed in each phase and characterized according to the enhancement pattern. Results, the 52 patients were studied and the results were compiled. The lesions are studied in various phases. Majority of them are above 50 years which comprises 48%, 44% were females and 56% were males. 65% lesions are benign and 37% are malignant. The most common benign lesion is simple cyst comprising of 14%. Most common malignant lesion is HECC in elderly which is 9%. This is an axial series image showing the well-defined hypodense lesion and the left lobe of liver will hit you around 20 which is simple hepatic cyst which does not enhance one's contrast and administration. This is the flash emanzomer shown in the arterial phase which enhances similar to the iota. This should be differentiated from the hypervascular max. This is an axial series image showing the geographic lesions HECC similar less than the liver but enhances similar to the liver. This is a focal fatty infiltration. This is a liver axis which shows a peripheral enhancement with central non-enhancing area. This is most commonly elliptic. This is an axial series image showing a large lesion involving the whole liver with necrotic and cystic components. This is a hepatovlastoma. This is an axial series image showing the central hypodense area with peripheral mild enhancement which is corangeotarsenoma. This is an axial series image showing HECC which enhances on late arterial phase and washes out in the portal. Discussion, detection and characterization of the focal hepatic liver lesions using enhancement patterns is helpful in diagnosing most of the lesions. Enhancement patterns that are seen are arterial phase enhancement, delayed phase enhancement, early washout, peripheral nodular enhancement, central scar enhancement, pseudo-capsin. The most common benign lesions are simple hepatic cysts, hemangiomas, focal fatty infiltration, abscess, hyperhydrotic cysts, open nodular hypoplasias and adenoma. Marigment lesions are hepatovlastomas, botryoid, drabdomyosapoma in children, HECC and corangeotarsenoma in elderly. Identification of benign lesions in patients with primary cancer prevents unnecessary biopsies and aids in acute staging. The conclusion of this study is Manchitectoceti is the main step for diagnosis of the focal liver lesions in assessing the number of size, extent of the involvement, enhancement characteristics and helps the surgeon to plan accordingly. Thank you.