o thinking about kind of like multinational collaborative opportunities. Now I'm going to focus on the algal genetic diversity. So the genetic diversity of the algae is vast, although it's quite messy and quite contentious in the community. So this led us to do an NSF workshop. So myself, Adrian Carrera and John Parkinson run a workshop to try to build consensus about how we assess and interpret symbiotic diversity. So diversity of that algal symbiont. And we came up with the idea that there's these low complexity communities that are maybe a little easier to understand where you see that they host in their cells, the same color of symbiont. But there's also these high complexity communities that are maybe more challenging to understand because your every sample of coral is a community of organisms present. And so I'm just going to riff off of the recommendations that all of these authors came up with. So just because they're already there, we wrote a white paper if you're interested. But the first one is that we really need to leverage technological advancements for assessing diversity in symbiotic ECA. And again, these international collaborations to better link diversity with function are really needed. And then we need to expand culture collections and taxonomy. Now I want to talk about the whole about interactions and incorporate some of that microbiome. So a lot of the work that's been done is on hosts or symbionts or microbiome, but there's very little kind of incorporating all three members. So we need more work thinking about how Nigerian phenotypes will differ depending on what type of microbiome you have, what type of symbiont community, what genotype of coral you are. And together, all of these interactions amongst whole about members, this idea that you can mix and match hosts and symbionts and microbiome combinations together might yield novel phenotypes that might do well under climate change. So the recommendation here is to think about focusing research on mechanisms underlying how these interactions are shaped by changing oceans so that we might come up with ideas about how we might use these different combinations to try to be more adaptive strategies. So when we're thinking about coral reef solutions, so how can we keep reefs looking like this what we see on the left? Obviously, the main thing we need to do is slow climate change and improve local conditions. So efforts to mitigate warming and improve local conditions are absolutely paramount. However, these are major policy challenges, corals and currents that take coral larvae and CO2 emissions. They don't respect political boundaries. So I think there's a huge need in the community for incentives and mechanisms for multi-national collaborations and I know that's been touched on a few times today. And I think this will lead to broader engagement with multi-national stakeholders that will bolster both science and conservation. So now I'm going to talk about specifically actively restoring coral populations, which is becoming a major focus of coral reef research. So when we're thinking about restoring corals, so this is there's a whole coral restoration consortium. I spoke before this talk kind of thinking about what some of the recommendations might be. And these are the ones we came up with. So thinking about national repositories or biobanks to preserve host and cement genotypes. So for example, for the endangered acropored corals and the Florida Keys, a lot of those had already been biobanked before the devastation of summer 2023. So there's still those genotypes in nurseries. So things like this where you have an entire population wiped out from a bleaching event. That genetic material and that individual genotype is still available and efforts to create novel genetic combinations. So the idea that maybe you mix and match individuals from the south to the north and try to think about hybrid vigor to try to increase resiliency of different genotypes and research on the potential risks associated with novel interventions. So whether those interventions are across countries or whether those interventions are quite provocative like moving Pacific corals into the Caribbean. We need research to understand those risks. And we also lastly need investment in host and cement taxonomy policies are based on species and in coral and some of us were really bad at knowing what species are.  The next decade of research will be critical. We must reduce CO2 this is absolutely critical and local stressors will also prioritizing understanding diversity and how this diversity can be leveraged for restoration and adaptive management. And I want to leave you with my final thought which is kind of the theme is we cannot conserve and restore what is out there until we actually know what is out there. So thank you. Wonderful sir. Thank you. That was a great way to wrap up this panel and thank you again for all three of you for great presentations and great timely presentations of that. We have a few questions here on Slido. And so I'm going to go ahead and I guess take it off by asking a question to all of you as well as the committee and attendees. So mainly made a point earlier about, you know, how we're seeing these species sort of changes in species distribution with a changing climate and we can kind of infer or even correlate the two. And maintenance of the details, if you will, in the middle are okay. So, I'll post this question, you know, our models at the point where we can predict either the outcome. In other words, where will species they end up after, you know, time period X right without necessarily knowing what happens in the middle, or our models at the point where we can really better understand some of the mechanisms. So I'll open it up to the three panelists to answer that. Anyone want to kick it off? Well, I'll try. I think the, the, the field of modeling species distributions has rapidly expanded right. And so there's a lot of covariates that people are including in these models, including interestingly the density of the populations themselves. I mean, there's a number of hypotheses called basin hypotheses that if populations get to a low level, they shrink their geographic distributions into the core. And so this represents an interesting problem right because you've got changing ecological conditions and changing population sizes right. So, you know, understanding how distribution shifts relate to both of those factors is important. I do think there's been a rapid progress in this where the progress hasn't been so great is actually understanding the implications of species interactions as opposed to individual species models. I can follow up on that. I tried to make this point very, very briefly, though, just that, you know, the, our simple approaches right now just relate climate to either species occurrence or biomass or abundance. And yet we know there's a lot of biology in there and the climate is actually affecting biological rates and demographic rates. And there are those process based species distribution models out there that exist. But we haven't yet brought them to bear on the incredible range of observations that exist and tied them carefully to and constrain them with experiments and the other including genomics on rapid adaptation. So I think it's about using models to link between observations and the processes we know and we haven't yet taken advantage of the opportunities that are there. There's some very simplistic approaches that are easy to apply and have been applied really widely, but they skip the biology that that matters and that includes the species interactions that Steve was just talking about. And the kinds of basin basins of attraction and dynamics like that that he was talking about as well. So, we have the models but we're not using them. Excellent. Thank you. Sarah, did you want to add anything? I just wanted to say that, like, I think also it's hard when you're thinking about species occurrence because my argument would be that like, we often don't know what species we're working with. So for example, in Japan, there's been a range expansion of acropored corals along the Japan coast but when we went in and sequenced those they're actually they're different lineages. So the individuals that are at the northern range front are different lineage than the ones that are present in the core population so it's like they look the same but they're different genetic material. So it's hard to know who's actually moving because there's no they they're like, they look the same. And, you know, my colleague she asked a question about do we have enough empirical data. You addressed that to some extent she I don't know if you wanted to add anything to that question. Yeah, I think we all might have started addressing it already but, you know, having there's there's still no empirical data on actual experiments and, you know, targeting specific questions and can we use technological advances and AI or any knowledge learning for those that you just mentioned. Well, I think that there's like AI I think can be really useful in thinking about how more there might be more logical variation that human eyes like missing that might be able to identify without sequencing so the whole idea that we need to go in and sequence everyone is obviously not a feasible idea, but developing kind of tools and techniques leveraging AI and like neural networks and things to try to. Maybe we're missing something like we think it looks the same but it's not so I think there's a lot of potential avenue for research thinking about more logical variation that we're missing to try to identify who species are and this goes with others colleagues doing this in mosquitoes for example. So it's like it's not just corals like people are trying to think about more logical variation among different lineages within kind of like a broader taxonomic group that are cryptic so to speak. So I think there's a lot of potential there. I also see opportunities around making better use of the of the images and the video that's out there using AI and machine learning to turn those into species observations. Obviously that takes quite a bit of work and careful curation and understanding what species are out there. And I also saw in the chat, you know, acoustic information and other sources of more novel information streams can be useful there too. Moving on to some other questions here Jason may ask a question. Jason you want to try me on this shirt. I missed spoke on the question. Originally asked what's the role of a couple of ecological biology model to explore all these topics. I think what I really want to ask is, what is the state of the set of models ecosystem models that they're coming to business. It isn't sufficient to be able to address not only this esteem of these distributions, but all with other impacts and see what's going to summarize and stop. What's the state of the model. And was there opportunity. You know, honestly, I think Jason is probably the one in the room most adequate to answer that question as well as asking right. You know, I would say, you know, if you look at the state of ecological models that are in use around the world, you know, the Atlantis system is in terms of in particular of larger animals is sort of the state of the art and has a number of modules, but mostly, you know, it's it's it's it's key to species interactions, more or less assuming a constant ecosystem or an ecosystem not under the rapid change. So, so having a spatially explicit component that can map these species distribution but also take into account the distributions that's probably right at the bleeding edge of modeling that that would be really useful for this right now. Yeah, and I that add on that. You know, it's, I think one of the ongoing challenges is to. And this is this is also met in climate models it's this, this balance between model complexity, you can put as much detail into an ecological model as you want. But understanding what details important and whether which detail actually is actually helpful for understanding both historical and future changes is what we haven't done. So it's really this merge of modeling and data and study on the underlying biological process that I think is so important we can't have just models. And that's part of why I was trying to emphasize this are these data science skills and the literacy to merge these these pieces together. You know, as you know, Jason and others who've worked with them like Atlantic model Atlantis models are incredibly complex but it can be hard to diagnose what's actually going on. And that's part of it's a computational channel as well as something that needs more focus. Very good. Very well. We have a couple of three more questions that at least start with that Josie. Josie want to ask your question. Sure. So, inside from the most question I was just curious about the basis species and how it can be thinking bio diversity, and what we should be thinking about the future. Yeah, I mean, one of the things I think is really important from a research perspective is is trying to generalize the impacts of novel species interactions and that's a theme that cross cuts both invasive species but also the shifting species interactions that Steve talked about. But I brought up a little bit, but I think, you know, it's often a case where we see that some species invasive species have a really big impact. Others are not invasive and have very little impact. And how do we understanding the generalizable rules for ecological interactions, building from traits and from taxonomy and from environment is really fascinating and important research question that has both practical and both applied and basic science implications. So, Josie will appreciate this answer. You know, the federal crab example is an interesting one. Is that an invasive species into the Gulf of Maine. Well, I guess it is right because it really wasn't found at any other place. Well, it's it's taking advantage of a habitat constraint that's no longer there right in terms of minimum, you know, maximum minimum temperatures right. And so, and it's going to create ecological change. In general, when we think about this, you know, highly packed niches, and you know, species moving, you know, out of there, those those relationships, it leaves open niches right that can be invaded and so I think, you know, understanding, you know, how a species would fit into a system and potentially exploit it is a really important aspect of this and so, you know, in in the Gulf of Mexico, for example, invasive lionfish have been, you know, you would have thought that that was a well packed set of niches but certainly those that species was able to take advantage of something that wasn't there which is, you know, predator of small animals right so I do think invasives. I think we need another definition for what an invasive species is if it's on a continuum, you know, of distribution, you know constrained by by by climate right so it's not like you know something coming out of the Indo Pacific right. I think Steve's right that there's like, if we've learned anything in biology there's nothing that's binary, right so it's like, you know, for example we think of coral reefs is being really great but in Japan where they've like expanded their range they're overtaking kelp community so they've changed the entire ecosystem, right that used to be dominated by kelp, and the fishes associated with kelp. And, you know, that's like, and from a coral perspective we're like yay crawls are expanding their range right but those kelp researchers like oh my gosh crawls are taking over our ecosystem. So I think invasive is also just like depends on your context to, and then thinking about the lionfish invasion into the Caribbean I think there has been some like really interesting socioeconomic impacts of lionfish so it's become like an entire fishery. You know it's created a huge economy, you know I was in Curacao and there's entire businesses based off of like lionfish jewelry and lionfish tacos and lionfish ceviche. So it's, and it has all this so it's like really people associate you know this fishing pressure is being like really positive and they feel like they're, you know, being positively impacting the environment by eating this lionfish so I think it's got this really interesting kind of socioeconomic interaction that's fun. And they're really crazy. Let's go to Leila and then Dipajana and then we'll move on to the next panel. Leila you want to close the question? Yeah, thank you very much with the same line of thought that we're in right now. I'm wondering if the models and species of study or the studies of species change and expansion are considering the built environment. Fixed structures, vessels, also ballast, you know, those are questions earlier, the things that microbes and coral larvae and other small things have a tendency to stick to and then fling off of and maybe expand their range that way. You know Leila you ask a really cogent question and I think it's from where you actually sit. So if we look for example at the built infrastructure in the Gulf of Mexico, you've got a massive number of oil platforms out there and they've actually fundamentally changed the dynamics of a number of the species and they've become stepping stones in a sense, you know, for a range expansion and moving to the next stepping stone.  But nevertheless, I think, you know, humans are embedded in this environment at this point and, you know, if we want to understand how these ecological systems are going to change. I think it gets back to the point that Malin made about these are natural and economic systems at the same time, you know, they're coupled systems and so embedding the human element in the models is going to be critically important. This is, and as I'm sure folks are aware, we're at a inflection point in many ways, at least for our continental shelf ecosystems in terms of some massive plans for more built structures and offshore development, partly to address climate change but understanding the biological impacts of that is still a really important open research question. Excellent. All right, well then, we'll wrap it up with Dipanjana's question. You're on and you could ask about the factors influencing those thoughts. Yes, Dipanjana here. Gratitude for again, excellent insights and presentations. I actually the non human intelligence and resilience are also very fascinating subject. So considering the factors which you have presented in your presentation. I would like to ask which factors are influencing this responses most and can better management or conservation of such response factors those muscles, which are providing the resilience can decelerate the rate of biodiversity loss. I'm gonna try that melon. Yeah, just just started thinking through. I mean, I think on one level, you know, part of what's so important is response diversity and functional diversity. And that get back gets back to some of the cryptic diversity that Sarah was bringing up. I think some of the functional diversity that Joey brought up as well, but that diversity across species provides insurance against environmental change so we can ecosystems can continue to maintain function. Despite environmental change, I think that's incredibly important during this, during this moment in our history and your history. I don't think I think there's also the interaction between stressors to that's really important and challenging to understand. So this idea that there's like warming oceans that are interacting with like, you know, more direct influences like human, like being close to like an urban system. For example, and all the stressors that are associated with urbanization. And so I think there's like really big challenges to understanding. I'm obsessed with cryptic. So I'm going to make another cryptic thing. But, for example, when we were looking along an urban gradient in curibus in the Pacific, we found that there were three cryptic lineages. And one of the lineages was more commonly found in the anthropogenically impacted areas. And then when there was a massive heat wave in 2018 where if you didn't know the genetic data, you would have said, Oh, those corals that were living closer to urban environments all died. So they were like less resilient because of urbanization, but actually they were kind of like a specialist lineage that was like more commonly found. And when we actually genotype them, they were all the same lineage. So you saw the extinction of a single lineage in a local area. But if you interpreted that without knowing the underlying diversity of those interacting stressors you would have said, Oh, it's, it's, it's the urbanization climate change interaction. I think there is just so nuanced to understand. Yeah, so I think there's just like a lot more to learn. I'll just follow up on it and say, you know, it's interesting, you know, in trying to sort out multiple simultaneous drivers. There's only an end of one of the earth, right? And so, you know, we need a sort of a multi-passed approach to this, which includes modeling, you know, experiments on land, experiments in water, etc. For us to sort of deconvolve all of this. And, you know, I get back to, you know, what was the driver for global one was looking at top down and bottom up processes at the same time. Right. And so, so I actually think, you know, this is becoming even more important now as we we get into sort of uncharted territory with climate change. Thank you all very much. There was fantastic presentation. Great question. So I'm going to turn it over to a judge. You can try to lead the next panel. Yeah, thanks, Peter. So, I may take my most not greatest choice here and give us two minute break. But I'm going to ask, I really want the panelists to stay on. We're going to switch topics right now. We've had this great discussion on science. And now, we're going to look at and come back from the great sort of tools and technologies. And I'm calling this part one, because we're only going to be looking at DNA today and we specifically talked about this a little bit last chat going on about other technologies. And we talked about whether we could address all of the day we decided to just focus on DNA. But stay tuned because there will be a cartoon that we will pick up. But let's just take a really quick to the break and come back and panelists from the morning, please stay out because we have a full discussion. Can you hear us. Can you try talking. I can, I can hear people now. I couldn't. Okay, so we're, we're ready to go. Okay, welcome back everyone and thank you so we're now going to talk about DNA and to talk about it for this session. We've got Paul and Zach and they're going to do a joint presentation. So I think it's all you're going to go first.  Yep. Okay, so thank you for the invitation for Zach and I to speak with you today and thank you to the other speakers for for setting us up so well in your talks. Ocean ecosystems are facing unprecedented challenges. Climate change urbanization, eutrophication over harvesting of resources and critical questions that we're facing in this coming decade are things like who are the winners and losers of climate change. How are these changes impacting ecosystem function. How can we support ecosystem resilience to anthropogenic stressors. And there's a tremendous amount of ocean observation data from drifters and gliders and satellites and all manner of things. But these observation systems can't tell us about C star wasting disease or, you know, black band disease and corals that can't tell you that Garibaldi fish, you know, now live in Monterey Bay it can't tell you about non analog communities were temperate and tropical fishes are now mixing in the oceans where they never did before. And if we think about biodiversity observations in ocean ecosystems. This is people and, you know, a lot of these traditional methods are people intensive putting divers in the water, having people go through the the catch of a troll. These methods are time and labor intensive. They're expensive. They require taxonomic expertise. You know, because of this, it focuses just on conspicuous species. And anytime you're putting people in the water, you know, you're limited to the conditions of the ocean at the time. So, if we think about the future of ocean biodiversity observation. You know, ideally, observation systems would capture entire communities. It would happen at a global scale. It would happen in near real time. And it would happen. Importantly, autonomously. So, we all know about barcodes. We've gone to the grocery store picked up a jar of peanut butter. We scan it. It comes up with a price. And DNA barcoding uses the same approach, but using species diagnostic DNA sequences to identify a particular taxa. DNA barcoding has morphed into what is known as DNA meta barcoding where using next generation sequencers, we are getting thousands, tens of thousands, millions of sequences. And this makes it possible to identify entire communities through these diagnostic DNA sequences.  And compare differences between communities, either the same community at different time points, different communities in different locations and things like that. Now, there's some common approaches to meta barcoding. And what really differs is the input into the system. So, the first thing that really counts as meta barcoding that we didn't call meta barcoding at the time is microbial community profiling. You take a sample, you amplify 16S, you put it into a chime and it spits out a distribution of microbial taxa in your community. A method that has gained a lot of prominence over the last decade is environmental DNA or EDNA. EDNA is based on the fact that all organisms are leaving behind small biological traces of themselves in the environment. And that if you go out and you collect water or sediment from that environment, either using scuba divers or a niskin bottle, you can filter, isolate, amplify and meta barcode that DNA and reconstruct entire communities. Another meta barcoding approach that is gaining prominence is autonomous reef monitoring structures. These are essentially stacks of settlement plates that get encrusted with benthic marine organisms. You take them apart, they make very pretty photos. And then you can scrape all of that biodiversity into a blender, extract the DNA and put it into a meta barcoding pipeline that allows you to reconstruct the communities that were present. So some of the points that other speakers have made that we want to emphasize is that it's really critical to think holistically about biodiversity monitoring and move beyond this very narrow focus that we have on megafauna commercial species, foundational species. So, for example, in the Channel Islands National Marine Park, they monitor 56 priority species at 37 sites once a year. And that is very coarse observation of the biodiversity in these systems. Essentially, they're flying blind. They really don't understand what is going on in these systems on a finer time scale. And if we can pair results from EDNA to the visual surveys from the National Park Service, we capture a lot of the same things, but EDNA gets a lot more. And importantly, 25% of Zach's EDNA samples had a giant black sea bass in it. In 30 plus years, National Park Service divers have seen one ever. So EDNA is capturing diversity that other methods is missing. And so if you look at the sensitivity of EDNA compared to other methods such as baited remote underwater videos compared to beach sains, again, EDNA is outperforming these other traditional survey methods. So the sensitivity of EDNA is higher as well. So in this study, Zach compared fish biodiversity inside and outside of the marine protected area. And what you can see on the right hand side is that EDNA does a better job of differentiating those two communities, allowing us to see the impact of the marine protected area. Now, we talk about meta bar coding and different approaches to meta bar coding, specifically because they capture very, very different communities. So this is data from Indonesia comparing arms and EDNA from the exact same sites. And what you see is a shocking little overlap between the tremendous amount of biodiversity that each of these meta bar coding methods captured. And one of the really cool things about these meta bar coding approaches is because you're looking at entire communities, you can do a comparison of sites across a marine pollution gradient, which you can see very clearly in those images, non photoshopped images on the right of the arms. And if you plot the bio or if you plot the abundance of specific taxa versus the pollution, what you see is that there's some taxa that increase in diversity. There are other taxa that have significant decreases in diversity. And so from a monitoring perspective, if we want to really know what the canary in the coal mine is, you know, these methods allow us to focus or identify and focus on the taxa that are most sensitive to change so that we might be able to respond to environmental changes proactively, rather than, you know, once all the corals have died. So, it's important to think holistically about biodiversity monitoring, because right now, what we're monitoring may not be the best indicator species of environmental stress. We need to be moving towards whole communities, vertebrates invertebrates microbes. And this is going to allow us to focus monitoring efforts on the things that are most sensitive. The other point that several speakers have made is that we need to be thinking about thinking globally about biodiversity monitoring and move beyond US borders territories and our exclusive economic zones. So, many years ago, Peter sale wrote a paper about connectivity being a critical gap in the development of effective marine protected areas. And this is because if you want to protect to marine ecosystems here, those ecosystems are dependent upon larval input from upstream populations. And so, if we're not protecting these upstream populations. The MPAs may not be stable in the long term. And this is important because, you know, larvae don't respect national borders. The other thing we need to be thinking about is that most of global biodiversity is not around North and South America. It's centered in Southeast Asia. And most, you know, 40% of the world's economy and 80% of the needs of the poor are derived from biological resources. This is very true in Southeast Asia, where, you know, it's home to nearly 400 million people, about a third of which have fish as a primary daily protein source. It's a big part of the GDP and supporting the livelihoods of, you know, 120 million people. And it's incredibly threatened by anthropogenic stressors. The red and yellow here highlighting reefs in at risk of local collapse. And it's important to note, as Joey did, biodiversity is food security, food security is political stability, and political stability is US national security. And so, us focusing only on US waters, US territories, US interests, we do that to our own peril. Thanks Paul. Hey everyone, Zach Gold. I just want to first thank everyone because I'm a product of NSF and NOAA. That's the only way I got here today is because of all of the undergraduate, you know, graduate funding that got me to this position today. And I'm really honored to be here. And I'm going to highlight here, you know, talking about the additional needs that we have. And this is about developing those resources that we need to be able to pull off doing EDNA, you know, at scale. And so, as this is a surprise to no one, there's a lot of studies that have been happening in the US and the global north and not a lot of applications of EDNA and meta-marketing, you know, in the most biodiverse hotspots. But the few that have been done have been really interesting in that when you compare how many species you get in the same leader of water, we get the same number in Southern California as we do in Rajampot. Which is insane because there's about two orders of magnitude more species of fish in Rajampot in the coral triangle than there are in Southern California. And so our techniques and technologies and our sample methodologies that we might be using in our biodiversity, poor, you know, comparative regions might not immediately translate to, you know, how we do these same kind of surveys, how we're going to evaluate these hyper biodiverse systems. Right. And so what that means, though, is you can get away with taking 12 liters of water at a site in Southern California, and you did a pretty good job of saturating biodiversity. You know, estimates are we need 300 liters ballpark to get the same saturation on a coral reef, right. And now, all of a sudden, that's not cheaper, better, faster. That's really difficult to do. And so we're going to have to think about how do we design these tools to be better to work in places where there are far more species. And one of those tools as highlighted and you saw in some of the slides that Paul is presenting, those are phylum level or family or order level tax and other assignments and part of the problem is our reference databases for these species and has been hyped up by previous talks today. We need those taxonomous and we have fewer taxonomous now and maybe we've ever had in the last 150 years. And here's just an example of what happens when you put in the legwork to have some of that taxonomy. You know, all of a sudden you're turning light switch on we can actually put names to faces for these species. I spent in the second chapter of my PhD, specifically doing that on frankly one of the most well studied group of organisms in the world which is fishes in the California current. But even then, we had so few sequences and reference barcodes that one by doing that effort we're able to find, you know, almost double the number of species by actually putting in the legwork, doing the museum tissue specimen collections identifying those species down the painstaking frankly boring science that is the fundamentals right and you can't win championships and can't make free throws right so we have to be able to do those fundamentals. And here's just a further example of you know when you further curate those and think really intentionally about how do we design these reference databases, and this was just one really small subset in Southern California, we can improve our ability to assign taxonomy pretty dramatically. And we were actually by just having this regional curated database that took a lot of effort. It took a lot of effort to just get a species list of who are all the fishes that live in Southern California involved interviewing 30 different you know sort of fish, biologists and pulling out their tons and tons of these lists, but we improved and got species level resolution here. And you need this data, because, ultimately, we need to have defensible taxonomy practices for when we do, you know, take a DNA do DNA meta bargaining we're putting names to basis as DNA sequences. The only way that we can do that and even test which parameters matter and what does that shape look like is by having those databases and this is just one example we did. And we found that there's actually this direct trade off between confidence and resolution. This is true in all fields of science, not just, you know, bioinformatics. But the reason why this matters is if you have $100 million detection of this invasive species showing up in the Great Lakes, you know, on the other side of this dam.  The whole is just to what is the optimal, you know, number of species that we can identify doing this in Indonesia we don't actually, there's not a lot on the line this is more of a research question, you will choose a completely different parameter in this instance right and so having that information developing those best practices is really fundamental, but we can't do that without having these reference databases and understanding that sequence diversity for these key markers. In addition to investing in these reference databases, we have to invest in people. And we can't just let EDNA be the science, you know, of the most well funded institutions. It has to be democratized and provided. And you know, these are the future scientists that we have to have and we need more and more of these skill sets. To my knowledge, I was one of the first three students that had graduated PhD doing environmental DNA in the US. And that was, I graduated in 2020 that was not that long ago like we need workforce development if this is going to be the future of how we're scaling our monitoring. And really to scale the monitoring we need to overcome some key technical challenges. And so, you know, it's awesome. I love spending my PhD in the Channel Islands diving and taking water samples with some of my friends pictured here, but that's not going to cut it if we need to have the kind of observations that, you know, Paul highlighted before and that all the previous speakers were talking about right, we need to have automated sampling, we need to develop it and there are some freaking cool technologies coming at the end of the day, but I'm a Bari and Woods Hole, but what about the rest of us, you know, right, like, we can't all be affording Lamborghinis, like we need to be able to buy our smart cars, right and how do we get those off the streets so that it can be democratized everybody can use these technologies. So we can actually scale this, you know, across ocean basins. And another element and this is something I've spent the last few years really working on is, you know, at the moment metabarking is really good at telling us who was present, but not how many and quantifying abundance right and we know that abundance matters, you would not manage these two marine ecosystems the same way, but they have all the same species, right and so we don't have abundance we only have presence, we're going to be really limited understanding how marine ecosystems are changing, you know, in response to climate change other anthropogenic stressors. And so part of it is developing mechanistic frameworks this is work led by Oli Sheldon, and North Pacific Science Center and Ryan Kelly at UW, we're just some simple math, this is the math the first equation is pulling marbles out of a jar. The second is the PCR equation that we've known about since at least the 80s. And it turns out that just correcting for amplification efficiency bias, doing some standard validation improves our ability to derive quantitative estimates pretty dramatically. And you might even be able to notice that on the zero there. There's a bunch of points that are not explained by the model and that was why we added the, you know, pulling marbles out of a hat equation right and this is just really simple work that's come out in the last year and a half but there's so much more. Frankly, people that are much better at math and statistics to be able to keep pushing and making better tools and models where we can get better abundance data from these. And this isn't even, you know, this is really going from, you know, the DNA tube all the way to through sequencing and more work needs to be done on understanding, you know, from a water sample from the environment how that actually relates to biomass but I think we can get there. There's been a lot of really promising results in just the last year and a half that show that we are approaching these, the ability to get there. And the other really exciting work and I think is really critical and obviously something NSF has been funding for a long time, but is thinking about long term observations because if we're really going to ask how are marine ecosystems changing over time. We didn't know where we came from. So, one, some work that I did in an NSF, you know, grip internship was working with Noah taking these ethanol jars. They're actually older than all of my siblings. And it turns out you can just pet the ethanol at the top of here and reconstruct which organisms were living, or were captured in these samples, right and so you can sample process sequence and reconstruct what's there. We've found thousands of species of zooplankton we've never had in the California current, a long term zooplankton spatially explicit time series right that's a fundamental piece of ecosystems that we've just never been able to have. And if we really want to know how marine ecosystems are changing we need to know how the food sources are changing right. And so, this is just some pilot data that we're really excited about but we were able to look see that temperature is obviously a main driver which is surprised to know that this is only 100 samples right there's 7,000 of those samples. This is one LTR, you know, so there's project associated with an LTR. There are museum samples collections of these jars sitting everywhere around the United States around the world. These can be leveraged to start answering these questions of, well, what did our marine ecosystems look like we've never had enough time in the universe to count copepods and identify the species now we do, you know, using EDNA approaches. And I just want to highlight this paper that came out in the last week that I think is something that certainly we are thinking about really strongly and Noah, moving towards which was, it took the, you know, the Australian Government CSIRO they're sort of equivalent to know spent a lot of time integrating the last decade of all EDNA samples that were taken off of the East coast of Australia, and they were able to identify, you know, in the red and the blue these sort of heat wave associated communities. And the only way that those possible was investing, you know, in the data integration, investing in the people that be able to smartly put these together and combining the physical oceanography along with, you know, the biologists to answer these questions. There's no reason, you know, my ballpark estimate is that in the US over the last 23 years since Craig mentioned the first EDNA sample, there are over 100,000 EDNA samples. There is no repository.  But we could be doing this kind of data and so it's how do we mobilize data sets that already exist. They're in supplemental data files. They're the raw data sitting on NCBI somewhere. You know, but how do we actually integrate these at scale to answer these big questions and, you know, basically provide this data to the people like the folks on the previous call who can analyze it and move that to actionable science. And so why is all this possible? Well, when I was 10 years old, I made sequence the first human genome. It cost about $5 billion in today's dollars. Now it's two bucks. There's nothing that has declined costs, you know, with inflation this fast. And so that makes all this work possible. It's also incredibly complementary to lots of tools we heard today and moving in the future, whether that's AI and machine learning to integrate, you know, what do you do with a data set with 30,000 species, you know, and 20 environmental variables? How do you find those features that are important and not right? Autonomy, putting, you know, and Barry just had a couple of papers come out recently and putting these ENA samples on sail drones on long range of UVs. You know, how do we deploy these at scale so we can actually have these ocean basin scale, you know, visualizations combining this with imagery and acoustics. You know, the thing that ENA is really good at is putting names to faces. What ENA is not great at is counting, but imagery and acoustics are very good at counting, right. And so it's how do you build those joint models, those joint statistical approaches to leverage the strength and weaknesses of both of them. And lastly, it's really scalable. The one day in Seattle, we process more PCR samples than all of NOAA has ever combined during the COVID pandemic. We have the technology to do it. This is possible. You know, just do we have the investment and resources to actually commit to doing this? And so I'll just throw these up, you know, ultimately, summarizing that we need to think holistically about biodiversity monitoring. We need to think globally about our biodiversity monitoring can't just be, you know, in the US, the species distributions are going across borders. We have to develop these resources and capacity both human and the databases. And we need to overcome some of these key technical challenges and leverage our long term observations. With that, acknowledge many, many people that have made all of this work that Paul and I have done possible. And happy to take any questions. Well, thank you, Paul, and that was really. I, my computer has just decided to die. Slowly charge that what's going on. So bear with me. If you see questions coming up in the chat. Let me know, but we have a anyways. You will have a couple of questions. Yeah, I'll meander a little bit and then you can figure out where the answer lies in this and it's really pointing to the fact that it's a it's a new measurement technique and every new measurement techniques that has calibration understanding issues and it's really, I suppose, asking the question, do we really understand where this DNA that's being measured in the water has come from what its trajectory is and whether the tween species and within environment there are real differences in persistence or abundance and availability and it's really kind of understanding of whether the kind of does it really calibrate and do you understand the implications of the presence, could an organism eat another organism and through a fecal output release DNA and so move DNA DNA around, you know, without the organism ever being present. And so we really know what's going on. Yeah, absolutely. I can answer that question and Paul at you chime in. So I think, I think the answer is we're learning more and more every single day, you know, do we have a perfect answer there. No. But there's a lot of work that is compared to variability in DNA signatures versus traditional methods. When nobody likes to admit, certainly not know, is that there's a lot of variability between Charles, but we don't quantify it because we, it's too expensive to go back and do a second trial at the same site the same location. So my DNA is actually sort of guilty of we go in and we're holding ourselves very highly accountable we take tons of replicates we know exactly what our variants is right and so we can quantify that we can look at it and I would say that is a huge advantage, knowing what your variants is being able to quantify it now your questions about space and time resolution there's a ton of really cool projects that are going on actively and there's in the last year there's been 10 DNA papers that have been published per day. I'm not sitting on top of literature I don't think anyone in the world has. And so we're learning so much. And, but to answer a question briefly, like from what we've looked at in both coastal and tragic systems. It looks like eating a really is a snapshot of here and now. And so you're something on the scale of a, you know, a couple hours to a day in terms of time resolution and, you know, spatial scale of something on the order of we've seen differences as small as 50 meters apart as different as 10 meters apart in the water column.  And, but other places and other systems, we just, you know, I did some work up in Kenai River. You know, 40 foot plus title exchanges and it's like in those systems there's an active title board, like yeah, you can move 10 kilometers but that's not surprising because it's going moving the title board is moving faster than a car. So I think there's still a little bit unknown about exactly pinning down those questions of how long and how far and have distant but everything that we have seen so far is that it has resolution, certainly, you know, on the scale of 10s of meters to hundreds of meters and hours and so I think, and it's going to differ in different environmental systems and so what works in Antarctica is not going to work in an estuary in the Mississippi is not going to work, you know, in the twilight zone, you know, off of Cape Cod and so I think really understanding transport dynamics and, and thinking about integrating which I don't think is done at scale enough like getting those physical oceanographers to talk to the DNA biologists there's been, you know, a handful of folks that have been really doing that to nail that down. But everything that we have seen so far is that it is relatively spatially controlled, and the results, you know, make sense, you know, with a little bit of grain of the salt, and especially having those reference databases in place, they're able to answer a lot of questions.  And we can show that, you know, 70 or 25% of our samples pick up black sea bass, they've seen one in 30 years. So clearly there's biases. I think a lot of established methods, we've sort of for we don't talk about how they're biased and so, you know, it's not, it's not about, you know, meta bar coding. Certainly, you know, arms doesn't have the same transport issues that EDNA does, you know, it's a different meta bar coding approach. It's telling you about what's in this one, you know, cubic foot of simulated reef. So, I think a lot of the methods that we've been using for decades, we kind of forget, you know, that these have biases as well.  It's about, you know, integrating complimentary approaches so that we can actually improve our understanding of how these ecosystems are changing and functioning over time. Susan. I have a question. And I'm just fascinated by your ability to get the EDNA out of the reserve samples to the biological collections. But I'm wondering, is there going to be a potential bias in what actually gets preserved in those collections? And how would we now understand what that bias is? Yeah, absolutely. That's something that we looked into. And there was nothing, at least in our pilot study, we had, we found no evidence there, but it's definitely something that needs to be done to calibrate these. And I think there's a really cool work that I've heard of coming from Mumbari that's going to get published in the next couple of months where they were actually looking at form length preserve samples over the last 30 years from sediment traps. And they actually did a whole bunch of intercalibration, you know, where they were able to pull recent ones, expose them to form length, go up to a year, see if they can see, detect any changes and impact of that. So I think there's things that we can do in the lab to know if there are those biases or not. And at least from what we saw, we didn't find really any evidence that that was happening. But it's super important to obviously calibrate and validate as in with any science. And then the second question I had was sort of the problem of contamination if you're looking at low abundance species, and how do we detect that? Yeah, I mean, I think it's true for the same as the way we were doing COVID tests, right? I mean, it's just like implementing controls at every step of the way I have field blanks, you know, this is this the standard of microbiology like applied that to and so there's a really great wonderful standards that people have thought about for a long time. And I think one thing that hasn't really happened yet is, you know, a lot of people came into the ED&M at a bar cutting world as fish biologists. And the microbiologists were like, this was the third paper ever published, you know, after the human genome was ED&M sequencing. It's been around since 2001, at least if not earlier in some form or another. And so, you know, having better cross communication between those research fields and leveraging what has been learned and optimized in the medical fields where they have just the same problem of contamination. And they've built out systems to control for those and it's very possible. Well, I can give you an example. I think it was SARS-CoV-2 being detected in England by the public health England and it was, you know, before they could detect it in the population and it was a contamination issue. But it wasn't detected until I think several years later that they have the contamination. So that's why I mean it's just a it's a cautionary, you know, sort of example of how it's easy to get contamination and hard to detect sometimes. Yeah, one thing that we've done around that is just to implement multiple replication at multiple scales. And then you can use that to really understand, you know, what are real detections, what are not real detections by having that kind of built into the site to sign it. So, and luckily one of the advantages of EDNA is because it is relatively cost effective, like it's, you can implement these replication levels at multiple levels in a way that you'd never be able to afford to do that, you know, for a SCUBA survey or visual survey. Okay. I just was curious to get people's thoughts on the issue of data sovereignty in terms of how we do this. Now clearly work is done collaboratively, but on the other hand, we're also seeing a lot of regulation of framework of regulation on data collection, especially generally data collection in areas where national distribution of infection is, but it's curious about how you're thinking about that. And you as an anybody, all of us. Is that addressed to the general. Well, I was hoping a panelist who I'm debating for. That is a lovely, why don't we use this as a segue. We are going to find time and now I want to open it up to sort of the more general discussion. I know this was just going to discuss all ocean life in the next 10 minutes. The transition and I think it gets into what we need to the previous panel was talking about the need to look globally. So, if you're all still online, please chime in. Hi, I'm still charging cover so you see somebody on the room that I was going to go ahead. Just to respond to that I had some connection around this issue of with the global networks are go folks and writers about the mentoring other national territory and water. The key issue that's always come up is any inclination or indication that they're making biological measurements. As long as they're measuring temperature of salinity. Most nation states have shrugged their shoulders a better for both our goal and even glad that they're not allowed to fly. There's a perception that they're making biological. No, you don't want to there and it's a big story. And so there is a lot of national sensitivity. Once you get into the biological. So I think it is a big issue. And try to pull up that information. Yeah, I just like to add to that. You know, I think. You know, the convention on biological diversity has been really, really important and highlighting. You know, just how dependent humanity is on biodiversity and getting. People to think about protecting it. I think one of the unintended consequences of this is that. Because. You know, one of the selling points to developing countries was that.  It is basically equated. Any sort of. Biodiversity work, particularly anything involving genetics to bio prospecting and. You know, over, over my career, like I've basically seen the evolution of biodiversity science be, you know, it. It's the one use of biodiversity.  You know, if I want to go. You know, collect some animals, you know, to eat, that's totally fine. If I want to collect those same animals and sequence their DNA, it's like, well, hold on a second, you know, this is, you know, we got to talk about this. And so I think one of the things that we need to think about as we are talking about, you know, looking at biodiversity, both in the US and, you know, globally is, you know, to sort of push back on this on this. You know, what is essentially the criminalization of biodiversity research and I don't use that word lightly in Indonesia. They actually have made, there's a national law that any violation of a foreign researcher related to biodiversity research is punishable by multimillion dollar fines in 10 years in an Indonesian prison. So it is being. It is being criminalized and it's criminalizing people who actually are doing permitted research without actually doing anything to decrease people doing illegal research. I guess the question was also about data sovereignty, and I think that's also important sort of even beyond genetic information, but you know, sharing data internationally, especially with, you know, countries with fewer economic resources really requires a long process of building trust and understanding how benefits can go in both ways and identifying what those benefits can be. I think there is a danger if it's just making data openly available in some ways that becomes a different form of colonialism in some ways with countries that have resources to take advantage of those data using them. So I think it's that process of building trust and thinking about how benefits go both ways is an important part of that international relationship and international collaborations. Sarah, are you chiming in on this topic? Sorry, I missed that. Did you want me to speak now? I was wondering if you were adding on to that topic or if you were changing topics. Yeah, adding on. Well, I think this really is like a push for thinking about those multinational funding opportunities that I think should be creative because then you can actually give leadership opportunities for people in these places. So, you know, for example, if you want to understand the topic was brought up by Paul, like if you want to understand connectivity of a species across its range, you need to work with like many countries. And you also don't want the situation where people are prepping libraries in different ways because we know there's like drama, like, it doesn't work. So you need like, we need ways to like move samples between places, and we need to provide funding opportunities for people to collaborate with us like as equal leaders. I think the multinational funding opportunities is something that like came up as a common theme to all of my colleagues when I was chatting about like research needs. Everyone was just like, uh, working across international lines, like CITES permits, this that it's like, and they want to work with people and people in these countries want to work with us. Like, it's like, but there's no mechanism in place. So I think it's a real need. Yeah, I got, I want so badly to add what Sarah is saying. Set that aside for now and pick up on what Paul is saying, because it's more directly relates right now to this. How we're using the technology. So one, I think Paul really hit the nail on the head. It's many in our community have spent the last four years working with the United Nations on high seas. And I can tell you that there's a lot that is going into that regarding marine genetic resources. And the next few years that we're working to advise policy makers on the implementation plan, there is a lot of room for error. And I would also just want to add on a different note, there's a lot of room for opportunity. And I think that one thing I would like to see us do as a community is really keep up the engagement with the delegates who are who are really working on the implementation plan. So just leave that there. But it does connect in a way where Zachary is presenting and I have a question. I suspect there aren't enough resources being made available to, to, for lack of a better word, cross calibrate what you're seeing with EDNA and other analytical methods, both existing ones or how EDNA relates to, you know, you know, how we use EDNA approaches to look at the historical archives and the like. Do you have a recommendation to us on one thing you think you'd like to see NSF do to help us better establish the relationship between what we see in EDNA samples and related technologies to existing, you know, imagery data sets or other kind of existing approaches and data. Yeah, I think the thing that I would love to see there is, I mean, I think ultimately, in sort of the same way, Heidi was talking about the IFCB is right, it's like, in that regional local area, how many observations were needed to basically validate the IFCB. I think we need that, frankly, for every real large scale application of environmental DNA, or at least as many of those as possible, right. And so if we're going to pick one, I mean, I think there is just a real emphasis on doing those kind of pilot ground tree thing, validation, very favorite studies. And I think, and I think the components to that that I think are really critical are having those reference barcodes for the species of interests, because I mean, we're doing a separate across just species that NOAA monitors. Our best estimate is it's like 15% have genetic resources. These are the like lowest hanging fruit like these are the things that like we actively care about I mean some of these are whales for God's sakes like, you know, let alone the policy worms that like nobody cares about except for except for except for the people that you know, like are out here. And so I think like, like those need to be there, but we also need to do much more of that and I would you know I'd point to one of, you know, the coolest cooler papers that's come out, but only Sheldon's work and lots of others at Northwest history Science Center where they did side by side acoustics of hate trolls in EDNA. And it's just like, boom, on the money those maps are there like, we feel really good that we could, you know, if we just had EDNA signatures, we could interpolate them over space and time alongside those acoustics and so it's that kind of ground tree thing and work that I think is really critical and it doesn't take a lot to add in some of those components and I think we can leverage, you know, existing LTRs that are already happening existing surveys that are already being funded, you know, by, you know, indirectly or directly NSF and other sources to you know basically add in right all sort of mentioned this and you know, it's never going to replace boots on the ground, it's never going to replace white ships on the water, right, but we're never going to have a fleet of 108 global class white ships. I mean, we can dream, I don't think it's going to happen. But what you could envision is having 100 gliders complement, you know, our core set of white ships and provide us the icing on the cake to extend to spaces depth times that we could not ever get to you know with those ships and so that's really where I think we need to have those that validation so we can scale appropriately because, you know, as that slide showed like our ocean biodiversity observation, or it has not scaled with our ability to measure temperature and salinity and other biogeochemistry, but we need to get there if we want to answer these big scale questions. Yeah, I have a comment on that but also a question that might shift it away so I don't know if other people have comments on this topic. Okay. So, um, regarding the DNA, you know, we're, we're in Hawaii, thank you, thank you all for your panelists. We're working with, you know, communities and for the brain, you know, a lot of the resource managers are interested in a new technology and, you know, what like speaking of data sovereignty or try to provide communities and I know Ryan Kelly, you know, talks about this a lot to providing communities with an agency to conduct the methods themselves and then, you know, the scientists actually providing the guidance for curation so that the ownership and decision making stays within the appropriate parties and I think, you know, I would like to hear the party, you know, the final thoughts on that. So that's, that's one, sorry. And then the second thing is kind of related in that, you know, we're also I'm part of the nurse system and, you know, we're working on DNA technologies and estuaries and, you know, as we shift the thinking of oceans and humans like holistically, you know, the coastal regions estuaries don't, you know, et cetera, are very crucial areas, you know, so speaking of that, what are some strategies for an ocean, both to explore these important kind of questions about biodiversity and technological challenges that can be contained within the regions and estuary or climate effects maybe both extreme like so. So, sorry, long question, but I would love to hear any other panelists. Thanks. I would, I would just add one little bit but I've been talking a lot so I call this. The one thing I would say is like, I think what we would want to answer that question of like being able to enable anyone do the science is like, think about NCBI and NIH's support of blast. Anybody with a DNA sequence can copy paste that it's not hard to teach, you know, anyone with any computer literacy, how to annotate a single DNA sequence. And it tells you the answer and you don't even need that good of internet connection we've done this and Paul's done this a million times in Indonesia. And how can you enable that same kind of word for EDNA data, right, you could imagine that actually the Department of Energy already does this but for microbiome data, but it's only on microbes and they're not allowed to do this work in the ocean right. So how do you get the interagency calibration between there are, you know, the nationals, you know, NCBI, DOE, NOAA to be able to have sort of a data portal that implemented best practices and did all the behind the scenes work. And just, we're not keeping the data we just give it to you as an output right and so that enables anybody who gets a DNA sequence, even if you know you're a tribe and serving our quest, you take a water sample you send it off to a sequencing company they email you the raw sequence data that you know they're sitting on and they have the sovereignty, they can put names to species and analyze it and we don't need to keep any of that information right like that kind of open source and providing the tools and resources and to be able to do that scale I think would help help that and I think, you know, we think about this all the time. Lots of collaborators in Indonesia and former lab mates of mine, PhD students of halls. You know how do we enable them to be able to analyze this data in a country where they don't have a supercomputer the supercomputer that UCLA, you know it's awesome that we can do this for the people that we know and work with. But how do we, you know, extend that globally. And so I know certainly a lot of my career is building a lot of these software tools to, you know, diversify and allow anybody to do this work but I think we could also build an NSF could think about integrating use that scale to provide that kind of tool that enables anyone to do this kind of. So, reflecting back on this entire session, we heard a lot. And then Steve said we need to go back to looking at what is the moon shop. So here's my question and I would propose that we go back in the order of presentations and just step through each one of the speakers. And here's my question for you. There's going to be go back to. One sentence mission state. What are we doing. What is the emphasis of go back to whatever we call it in this context, the biodiversity and climate change impacts. What's that one bullet point was that one statement that you can use to sell this and energize global ocean community for the next few years. I think you should go in reverse order of speakers. Well I'm not shy about this. I mean, you know, I clearly see the utility and an at scale project that's large enough to actually encompass the range of issues at various taxonomic levels that allow us to understand the implications of a rapidly changing planet on the biodiversity of the earth. That's my elevator speech. Yeah, I come up with something fairly similar. I mean the future of ocean life in a changing climate. I think that that really is a cross biological scales and across oceanographic processes really requires massive integration. I think my pitch about the, we can't know what's what we're losing until we know what's there, and that will require multinational collaborations across species ranges. And I think I agree with everything that's been said, I think, you know, converging on some standard approaches and some priorities for what we're trying to document is going to be very important if we're thinking we can be, you know, far reaching but also fairly efficient, even, you know, even with significant resources. Oh, you know, the more we use zoom the worse we get. I think it boils down to integrative ocean observations and and really sort of adding this more fine scale biodiversity model monitoring into these other ocean observation platforms we have. Because, you know, it, it will allow us to see what's there it allows to see how it's changing but by integrating it with all of these other more physical observations that we're taking. We can actually start to understand some of these relationships between these physical processes and the biological communities. Yeah, the only thing that I would add to that just to echo agree with what everybody said but this, the, the connections to human well being and particularly for whom the impacts on which communities, I think is is critical if we want to understand the impacts of these changes. I know you're not understanding you. I think everyone covered it. Nicely done. I think Jason will help us up well. Can I add one component to see I'm sorry. So I think sort of underpinning all of this is where it's possible that we're co developing these kinds of approaches and research and observations and data provision with groups on the ground that you know, really require help or information or have their own knowledge streams even to contribute. So that co production co development pieces is pretty critical now. So we need a biological origin circulation experiment. We are almost out of time and I'm going to have the last support. So make it a good one. Yeah, well, I'll try my best. I'm asking this question from a perspective naive Italian lack of knowledge, because as folks know I'm not a biologist any stretch away. But I am influenced is a workforce question. I am influenced by a lot of what I'm observing in the medical genetic world road Institute and other places like that in the Boston Cambridge area. They really have a terrific model of having a lot of hardcore biologists, microbiologists partnering up with mathematicians or five mathematicians might not be trained in biology at all. And I'm wondering if there's opportunity, or if that is a direction that the marine world of genomics is going. And again, I'm asking this from perspective of lack of knowledge on the part maybe this is happening. Maybe not, but I wondered if there was a desire for that or if there's anything we can do to support in our work translational research being created and manifest by expanding our fields of expertise that we have doing this type of things. I don't want to comment, but I wait for the family. Sure, I just a couple points. I mean, one is a, I think a huge need for bringing mathematical and statistical approaches to understanding biodiversity data and biodiversity change. So that's a lot of what we've been talking about on this panel and I think there are a lot of unexplored opportunities there on the genomic side. And in the context of changing environments. There's a lot we haven't done in understanding genomic functional genomic variation, not just species and cryptic species but, you know, what are the functional genetic differences between different species between different locally adapted populations or individuals. And what role can that play in ecosystem restoration and understanding which species are likely to survive changing ocean conditions and climate conditions. So, yeah, I think there is a lot of opportunities that has been unexplored. Yeah, I just wanted to say that actually, a lot of the bioinformatics is, you know, there's a lot of crosstalk. Yeah, a lot of them, right. The crazy thing is that a lot of it came from the marine ground. I mean, folks went into human genome and things like that with training in ocean micro, aquatic microbiology. The problem is the number of zeros in front of the just, you know, the human health angle just has so much more when you show up, but you actually have a green drain going in that direction that way. Yeah, that's interesting. All right, thanks folks. I guess I would just add one little element to that which is, I think there's also a ton that they can learn from us. Like we, like one of the things when I started and, you know, Paul and I were first trying to do ED&A, we can't get to family level resolution and talk to a marine manager. If we say we found fish in the ocean, no really like cool, you know, like, but if you do that for bacteria for microbes, it's like, we've never seen this thing. So it's fine. It's good enough. And so like a lot of work came from that marine world where it's like, we need to put better names on these things. And those actually ended up leading to improved developments in the microbiome space. So I think it's, there's a lot of opportunity in that cross space and also, you know, thinking about the leveraging the physical oceanography and AI and machine learning all of these places. Like, I think there's a real need for these, these gross data. They deserve definite translational is in both directions. And a lot of times those, those form mathematical field type people, they're attracted to what we do because it's so messy compared to a relatively cleaner world. So they actually really appreciate this challenge too, so you're right. I really want to thank the panel for the whole panel for this morning. We covered a lot of topics rather quickly. The panelists, we were superb. He gave us a lot of good information. As I said, we will be continuing some discussions about acoustics and in addition, not just acoustics, but other technologies sensing marine life. And I just want to thank you all, I want to thank you all for hanging in there for a long session. And this has given us a lot of information about so appreciation and I think that wraps it up for you. Indeed, and I also want to thank all three of you moderators Jason, Peter and Joey for just doing a phenomenal job. And of course, our panelists, I don't have a biological background so I learned a lot here over the last few hours, and I have more thinking into do to make sure that I understand everything with the help of the rest of the course. Thank you.


Hi guys, this is Rich here on behalf of Rich TV Live. We are six days, 16 hours, 42 minutes, and 22 seconds away. And your boy Rich has been bringing you all the new IPOs today, F-O-N-E-R-O-M-J. And now a new IPO today. Bam, the third IPO. And I got to bring, I got to give this to Moby, who brought this to my attention today. Actually, I apologize. Chris Jay brought this to my attention today. Next Green Wave Holdings, NGW, a new IPO today. Next Green Wave Holdings, Inc. on the CSE Canadian Securities Exchange under the symbol NGW. Next Green Wave or the company is pleased to announce it has been approved for trading at the Canadian Securities Exchange at the opening of the market on Wednesday, October 10. Today under the symbol NGW. For information on the next Green Wave, please visit nextgreenwave.com. Let's look at the key highlights. Now, let's just quickly look at the website. Now, remember, Rich TV Live is strictly for education, entertainment purposes. You can go to richtvlive.com, Hoverover News, all the top news is there, Hoverover Stocks, all the top stocks are there. Contacts, join our secret trading group, follow us on all social media, and bam. Next Green Wave, premium seed to consumer integration, now on the CSE under the symbol NGW trading right now. Look at this. Next Green Wave has been established to produce and supply medical cannabis products to patients throughout the state of California. Next Green Wave has two sites, totally 85,000 square feet, has been permitted for medicinal and recreational marijuana operations. In Colinga, California, buildout has commenced and facility A completion is scheduled for September 2018, which means it should be done. Two additional sites have recently been acquired and are a licensed application phase which will increase our capacity significantly to 350,000 square feet. Next Green Wave has been awarded conditional use permits cup for indoor cultivation, nursery, manufacturing, and extraction, and distribution, making it a completely vertical integrated operation from seed to sale. With the state of California having commenced recreational sales on January 1st, 2018, it is poised to become the largest cannabis market in North America. That's true. Next Green Wave is well positioned to become a key producer in a market that expected to grow to US 6.5 billion in sales by 2020. Wow. This is unbelievable. What do you think about this? If you like this company, smash the like button, comment down below, share the video everywhere. Remember, I win and you win, we both win. Fully licensed seed to sale model to produce and distribute cannabis products for both medicinal and recreational use. We talked about that. 15 acres of approved cannabis zone land with capacity to grow up to 350,000 square feet. First major facility of 35,000 square feet becomes fully operational in late Q4 with expected revenues in early Q1. Beautiful. Led by six-time award-winning cannabis cup winner and industry veteran Mike Jennings and industry innovator specializing in premium cannabis brands. Raised over 21 million used to acquire, design, and build state-of-the-art facilities as well as accelerate the seed to sale model in California. What do you think about this news? I'd like to know what you think. Comment down below, share this video everywhere. Do you think that NGW will be a big winner? Their website is nextgreenwave.com. What do you guys think? Looks good to me. Comment down below, smash that like button, share the video everywhere. You heard it here first from your boy Rich. Nextgreenwave.com. Over the next five years, we project the total state market to grow at a compounded annual rate of 18.5%. That's right, 18.5% from 2.76 billion in 2015 to US 6.5 billion in 2020. What do you think about Next Green Wave? Comment down below. Let me know. Will it be a big winner? I say yes. This is your boy Rich. Bring you another IPO launching today. That's not one, not two, but three IPOs today. All on the CSC. It's true. NGW, keep them on your watch list. Put it on your radar. Don't just go and buy it because you heard it here first. Obviously, you heard it here first. We bring you everything first. Buy it because you love it. Let me know. What do you think? NGW, holler at your boy. I'm out. Peace. 60, 16 hours, 37 minutes, and 13 seconds away from history. It's true. Next Green Wave, I'm out.


This is covering the spread part of the Fandall podcast network Today is kind of like a seconding opening day in major league baseball because we have got games Scattered throughout the entire day and I know that my plan is to watch these games while I work And I thought that some of you may want to do the exact same I won't tell your boss if you don't tell mine So what I wanted to do was to run through Some bets you can make across these games in case you want some action on these of course always betting responsibly But I think that it could be fun to get some action in on these games if you are so inclined So I'm gonna break down what my numbers are seeing across the day games for today across major league baseball Hopefully getting information in a fast fashion so you can fill out your bed slips go on and enjoy your day before a first pitch These games getting away under way at 12 35 p.m. Eastern that is our goal for today is to break down major league baseball This is covering the spread right here on the Fandall podcast network and number fire calm My name is Jim Saunas. I am a senior writer and analyst for a number fire You're gonna break down today's slate across major league baseball letting you know my favorite money line strike out in homerun props You can bet over at Fandall sportsbook We'll dig in to all these games beginning with the money lines in just one second First a reminder that our master's preview podcast is up with Brandon Gadoula We broke down his favorite outright's his favorite non-outrights his read on Augusta some Stat digging he has done into Augusta over the past couple years as well. That is up over on the Fandall YouTube page and on the covering the spread podcast feed So go search for covering the spread wherever you get your podcast hit subscribe and if you like what you hear Leave us a five-star rating big. Thank you to those of you who have done so already in a coat Of course tomorrow western baseball again. I'll also talk some NASCAR on the show Plenty more to come across the rest of this week, of course NBA playouts just around the corner So make sure you are subscribed to covering the spread Are you looking to have a stake in the master's all weekend? Well Fandall has you covered with the PGA mega eagle DFS contest Which is now live test your knowledge of the PGA tour by putting together a six-person lineup While staying under the salary cap and using Fandall's live scoring feature follow along as you compete for a share of $750,000 with first place taking home a hundred and fifty thousand dollars all for just a fifteen Dollar entry fee there plenty of options to help you fill out your lineup as you compete for first place Thursday We'll be here before you know it so submit your lineups on Fandall today Eligibility restrictions apply go to Fandall.com or download the Fandall app for details if you want a DFS breakdown of the master's We did that as well That's also on the Fandall YouTube page and up on the number fire daily fantasy podcast feed Let's begin the MLB discussion for today by talking about some money lines There are four money lines where my numbers are showing enough value today Where I'd be okay betting it and those are on the Astros Giants Braves and cringe Nationals will do the nationals last because I understand if you don't want that one on your bed slip I don't really either but you know hey value is value Let's start things off here at the Astros their money line against the Tigers for today is Minus 255 and the start of the year for the Astros has been pretty close to a nightmare They are two and four so far this year so getting 72% implied odds than to win this game seems pretty steep I've got the Astros at 74.6% so a bit above the implied mark here and It makes sense why they struggle their lineup is diminishing what it was They've lost some key pieces, but they got Christian Javier starting for today Javier He's a righty facing the Tigers the Tigers active roster has a 79 WRC plus versus righties since the start of last year the Tiger song in Rotterwood Riga's he is a lefty facing the Astros and yeah They have lost a lot of key pieces no wholesale to bear right now Michael Brantley is out So they're missing key guys, but they still have Seven players on the current active roster who have a WRC plus of 100 or higher Against lefties since the start of last year where they minimum of 100 plate appearances now WRC plus is not a number. I want to look at in such small samples It is frankly atrocious in that small sample But it tells me if we use it in this regard that they still have enough guys They've got volume of hitters who can hit well versus lefties So when I see their mark versus lefties, I still put stock in it I think there's still enough guys here who can do well versus a southpaw. So I Do think this number may be a bit reactive to the the record for the Astros so far this year I think they've underachieved. I think they are undervalued. So minus 255 to me is totally totally fine Both the Giants and the Braves are teens that I have favored to win for today But they are currently underdogs at Fandals sportsbook. The Braves are plus 106 The white the Giants are plus 114 against the White Sox. Let's start things off here With the Giants throwing out Logan Webb for today And if you watched Logan Webb on opening day against the Yankees, you can probably understand Why we are here. He was lights out in that game with a bunch of strikeouts and I Don't find that super surprising I bet Logan Webb to win Cy Young last year, which did not go well But he improved down the stretch seemed like he figured stuff out in August September To get him back to closer to what he was back in 2021, which was a legitimate Cy Young contender Not sure if he's quite there again, but a big strikeout game gets me intrigued He's facing the White Sox here a 99 WRC plus against right. He's in their current active roster Not a ton of power. So I think Webb can get the job done here all the opposing side You got the White Sox or bullpen their defense not huge boons for them But you could say the same thing about the defense for the Giants as well But I do think that plus 114 a good number to get the Giants that either 50.3 percent to win The implied odds of plus 114 are 46.7 percent as far as the Braves go They are starting in Bryce elder and I feel pretty good about elder You look at what he did last year in a very small sample. It was 10 appearances in the big leagues nine Starts he looked good. He had good results. The peripheral is not quite as tasty, but still decent And I think it makes sense because in triple a last year really solid numbers now It's a tough task here. He is facing the Cardinals They're a very good offense. They don't strike out a ton, but the bullpen behind elder is really good So should elder have issues I have faith in the Braves to you know, at least keep things tight Later on this game miles Nicholas is on the other side of this game. He's fine He's someone I respect in terms of his pitching, but not someone need to fear all too much So I have the Braves at 50.9 percent to win the plot odds 48.5 percent. So Both these teams decent little values slight favorites from me Whereas you're getting plus money on the money line So I will take that and take on both the no both of those the final one is the woofer here. That's the Nationals I again understand if you don't want it They are plus 220 at home for a reason reason is they stink and they're also throwing Patrick Corbin So the idea of putting money on Patrick Corbin is not fun at all I do not like that, but the implied win odds of the Nats are 31 percent. I've been at 36 percent So still pretty low, but just not quite as low as the market So I'm gonna take this personally. I have bet this but I don't blame you if you'd rather not I think the other way you could go here would be the total right now The total is eight runs minus 115 on the over I find that pretty intriguing because again, it is Patrick Corbin So that's definitely a boost for the total here shame the clan of hand. Obviously a very very good picture, but Not a ton of strikeouts recently Look looking back at last year. He's made some changes to his repertoire. I'm not sure if that's why the strikeouts have been down Throwing more forcing fastballs recently. It's been a little bit odd So going on the road here to face the Nationals 83 degrees in DC for today Very good often a very good weather for hitting today So you combine that with Corbin combine that with some Waryness or I'm a clan of hand. I think that does add up to Checking out the over here at eight runs. So if you don't want to go the money line You could take the total instead, but I'm willing to put a bit on the money line here and kind of just see what happens I have no interest in the run line.  So I'm not taking the run line here I want the money line if I'm gonna bet it all plus two twenty is a money line for the Nats And I do think that is fair So the money lines I like for today the Nats at plus two twenty if you want to go there the braids at plus one 106 the Giants at plus one fourteen in the Astros at minus two fifty five in the strikeout prop department I am on one of the guys we discussed in the money line section and that is Bryce elder elder again facing the Cardinals his Strikeout prop is at three and a half with minus one thirty on the over and I do think the over there is Love is good enough for me to take that. I feel good about elder being strike Yes, or stretched out because this is not his first start this year in the bit or overall Because he did make one start in triple A and in that game Six innings. I have elder projected for 85 pitches for tonight Looking at elder specifically last year was interesting because again, he mentioned I mentioned that he made Made nine total starts for those earlier in the year for them later on and it seemed like he may have made a Tweak in his pitch mix in that second stretch and he got a lot of strikeouts after he came back up Part of that may be because all five starts were against either the nationals or the marlins a very cushy schedule for sure But he is also a young guy He did make some tweaks as mentioned So maybe he unlocked something four strikeouts and his triple A starts not a ton there, but He's at three and a half right now in this one Minus 130 on the over is not nothing that is paying a decent amount honestly It's important to know what the implied odds these things are so you can realize the difference between Minus 105 minus 110 it actually does make a pretty big difference the implied odds of minus 130 56.5 percent that's a pretty decent mark for sure But with elder being stretched out with the possibility for more strikeouts. I think that's very fair I am not assuming the increase in strikeouts in last year sticks I'm actually assuming it kind of regresses to his full season number and even with that I have elder projected at 4.63 strikeouts. That's a decent amount above the 3.5 So Bryce elder over three and a half strikeouts minus 130 a decent spot for me to go to for today And the one strikeout prop I feel decent about you know, there are some other ones I was tempted by specifically Logan Webb if you want to shop around He was over four and a half at like minus 120, but then got seen to minus 140 minus 146 at fendal right now if you can find a minus 125 or so on web over four and a half I would take that but at least a fendal specifically elder is the one strikeout prop that I am buying into as mentioned before home run props Are not things I feel as much confidence in as money lines and Strikeout props these are more so for fun for me But there are two that I feel pretty good about based on looking at today's slate The first one actually does not mesh well with my thoughts on the nationals money line does mesh well with the total That's wonder franco hit home run now franco is plus 680 at fendal sports book I should mention he is eight to one elsewhere. So This is more of a broad recommendation of franco not a fendal specifically shop around see what you can get on him Uh, I got him eight to one earlier on this morning. So shop around there But franco I find this very interesting with his number being where it is given that for his career franco has been a more powerful guy betting right-handed versus a lefty than the opposite His iso versus lefties for his career is 208 versus 143 against righties The fly ball rate does go up a hair here and franco looks really good so far this year Specifically looking at the amount of loft he's getting his fly ball rate is 44 percent up from 31 percent last year and 34 percent the year before a lot injuries for franco last year So it makes sense that you might see some lag there does seem like he's maybe getting back to Being what he was in 2021 at least early on this year Not might not stick because it is a big jump for sure, but It is warm out again 83 degrees. He is facing patrick corbin who lets up a ton of hard contact so I think that 680 is a fair number again shop around you can get eight to one At least I was able to earlier on this morning But I do think that wander franco is undervalued in the home run prop market And I wouldn't be shocked if i'm just broadly on franco against lefties early on this year Given the number we're getting right now on this one. I also do not mind isaac paredes He is plus 430 a fandal. I need a longer number than that But if you can find paredes at a longer number than plus 430 I would take it He has said for a lot of power against lefties Probably going to bat third for today as well So paredes that would check out and then franco a plus 680 the primary guys catching my attention For the rays for today The other longer odds home run prop that I like for wednesday is going to be michael harris the second and that is In the brazier's cardinals game Facing off with myles michelis now harris over a fandal is eight to one to hit a home run for today That is similar to what he is in at other books as well So probably the better numbers you can get here is a fandal on harris at eight to one Harris similar to franco not a huge fly ball guy But he smacks the ball He had a 45 hard hit rate last year That is the percentage of balls in play with an exit velocity of 95 plus miles per hour 45 last year 60 percent in a very small sample so far this year 13.3 percent barrel rate this year was 10 percent last year and that's why You can see a guy hit 19 home runs in a small sample Relatively small sample last year because he wasn't in the big leagues the entire year You can see that happened despite not having a massive fly ball rate And that fly ball rate does go up against righties, which is what he'll face today Myles michelis starting here for the cardinals. He led up a 37 percent fly ball rate to lefties last year He's also been throwing a couple fewer sinkers recently Which has helped bring his ground ball right down a bit So harris is eight to one for a reason again It's probably because of the low fly ball rate because michelis broadly does a good job of keeping stuff on the ground there are reasons why Harris is lower here, but If harris lofts won he can put it in the seats and I think that that is very encouraging We know the hard contact should be there So home run prompts for today michael harris eight to one wander franco You can probably suck it eight to one so I would chop around for that one 680 at fan dual sportsbook strikeout prop is elder over three and a half strikeouts minus 130 in that braze cardinals game And then the money lines I like for today are the gnats at plus 220 if you can stomach it But then the braves at plus 106 the giants at plus 114 and the astros at minus 255 That is all that we have here for today On covering the spread if you want some daily fantasy thoughts on the early day games We'll have those over on the number fire daily fantasy podcast feed in just a bit again If you're looking for our master's podcast search for recovering the spread wherever you get your podcast or go over to the fan dual youtube page If you've got any questions for me. I am on twitter at jim sonnis j i m s a n n e s You can also follow the fan dual podcast network at fan dual podcast back again tomorrow talking more baseball talking about Some nascar at bristol dirth this weekend looking forward to talking to all of you then about that This has been covering the spread right here on the fan dual podcast network


Hey, if you do switch, you use this. Let's get it. Hey, bro. Let's get it, baby. Hey, go make some plays, baby. Hey, that's what you live for right here. Opportunity playing in NFL. You got it. Go get it. Turn it up, baby. Turn it up. That's what energy and passion. Sir. Yes, sir, right. Really like that.  I blocked the f*** out, buddy, too. And he fell off inside late.  I got a technique. Don't worry about it. There's a technique to get off the madness. Chick! Chick, he's blocking you. He's blocking you. Big slime. He dunzo. I would assume so.


I am so honored to be among the very first winners of the UN Women and ITU GemTech Global Achievement Awards. I am also sorry that I have not been able to be with all of you in Busan for the events today and the Plenipotentiary Conference. Four years ago, with the Plenipotentiary Conference in Guadalajara, I was heading the Serbian delegation which proposed the resolution 70 on gender mainstreaming and empowerment of women and girls. The resolution, which was unanimously adopted, called on a specific action. It invited all the member countries and sector members to denote a Girls in ICT Day, a day when girls would visit telecommunications and IT companies, regulators, universities and ministries and learn about technology. After organizing the Girls in ICT Day twice in my own country, I know this is a truly life-altering event. The girls never forget the futuristic offices, the high-tech gadgets teleconferencing with girls in other countries. I am so happy and proud to say that this year the Girls in ICT Day was celebrated in 140 countries across the globe, touching lives of hundreds of thousands of girls and showing them the endless potential of the ICT. It is even more amazing to know that many of these girls will consider education and careers in ICT and many of them will indeed become ICT professionals. They will have secure jobs, high salaries and excellent working conditions. They will have an opportunity to improve their own life and the lives of people around them. Let us not forget that industry will also benefit from having more women and girls among them. The industry, which has touched every aspect of our lives in the recent years, now needs ICT skills more than ever. Women will bring new vision, new dynamics and new perspectives into the industry. At the very end, let me thank the people at the ITU who have made the Girls in ICT Day such a huge success. At least of them, I would like to thank Dr. Amadon Tourette, without whose support the Girls in ICT Day would never have been possible. I would also like to congratulate Houlin Cao on being elected the new Secretary General of the ITU and Malcolm Johnson being elected the new Deputy. I would like to thank my colleagues who have worked with me on the Girls in ICT Day and I thank the ITU and the UN Women of giving me the award.