Welcome back to the Breakfast on PlasTV Africa. Our first major conversation for today is going to be talking about the plans to, of course, on banned Twitter in Nigeria, but before that, how much has that cost the Nigerian economy and the Nigerian people in the 69 or 70 days since the ban was put in place? We're speaking this morning with Nasser Agbalaya, who's joining us, who's a business editor. Good morning and thanks for joining us. Good morning. Thanks for joining us. All right. The estimates, according to reports, it says that Nigeria has lost about 169 billion Naira from the ban on Twitter. The government, of course, has stated that that ban will be lifted very soon.  I want you to share your thoughts, first of all, on what that ban has cost Nigeria, Nigeria's economy and Nigerian people for the last 70 days. Literally, I'm sure that it's, well, first, it has cost Nigerians more than we expected. And we know that, we all know that many people use Twitter as a means of reaching out to the general public. Now this affects more people in the medium and micro-entrepreneurship scale. Now they don't have big budgets to, and they will have big teams to manage their advertising. But on Twitter, we just, a mere Twitter can reach up from 50 to 500 individuals. So now that space has been reduced. Now this has cost a lot of job losses also for people in this sector. Now even multinationals in Nigeria also have been affected, even broadcast houses also were affected. Though, yes, so we know that some people have been using, it's out there. So for that reason, many people have been reluctant to use this. All right, we seem to be having a glitch with the network, speaking with Mr. Agbalaya. As we wait for reconnection, once again the conversation is about how Nigeria has truly lost the cost of the ban on Twitter, the suspension of Twitter in Nigeria. And how much of a toll that has taken on Nigerian businesses, online businesses, you know, initially we had conversations about what people really were able to achieve simply by having a Twitter account. Mr. Agbalaya, can you hear us? Yes. Okay, brilliant. Please go ahead. As I was saying earlier, the cost for Nigeria is not just fully about the financial aspect. Now many people, of course, you know, have not been, what they were ending before. Now many people have lost a digital presence. The mileage which many Nigerian firms have had also has not been there anymore. The government on their part also were affected. For instance, NBS, the Bureau of Statistics, usually announces a new rate on Twitter. This has not been happening since the ban. So now everybody needs to wait on their websites when we receive email alerts from them, which is not as fast as when Mr. Yemikale tweets, this is the new inflation, this is what is happening with PMI. Instantly Nigerians get it, media houses get it, the whole world knows. Now that has been removed. Also, the government themselves, they announced information on the social media handle, on their social media handles. This has been reduced. We are very hoping that this proposed cancellation of the ban will happen much sooner. Okay, Agbalaya, there's a post here. It basically goes on to talk about just how much, financially, Nigeria has lost in terms of the Twitter ban. I want you to help us break this down, where these monies are being lost from. Would that be from ad revenues? Would that be the cost of goods and services that must have been purchased through businesses that aren't Twitter? Where exactly that fund really is coming from? Is it in terms of Neto providers, the fact that maybe data subscriptions, the fact that they've been caught off from assessing Twitter? Can you help us put traces of where exactly these funds have been lost? Sincerely, you hit the nail on the head. Now, those who didn't lose so much really are the telcos. Come what may, we still need to get data as we are right now. We are using data for this particular interview. Now, they have not lost so much compared to that person who has maybe a salon that can reach out to these customers, that person who needs to sell this week or that other commodity. Now, those individuals, that's millions of micro-scale entrepreneurs are the ones who lost the most. Many people have not been able to keep their staff. Now, early in July, I had an interview with a music producer that the young man has a growing outfit. Now, he had to let go of some of his staffs that hopefully when our business improves, he will take them on again. Now, that story cuts across not just Lagos or Abu. It's unfortunate we're having that glitch there with Mr. Balaya, a business editor at New Central TV. But really, I find it important for us to be able to pinpoint exactly where we're losing money and how exactly we can fix it. I think it's great news that the federal government and Twitter have been able to sit down together to discuss the terms of the resolution. But when we look at some of these agreements, like Mohammed mentioned that it's not a matter of what, it's a matter of when because according to him, Twitter has agreed to fulfill these conditions, which include that they must register with the Corporate Affairs Commission, the CAC, that they must register with the broadcast organization of Nigeria, the NBC, that they must work with the FIRS, lots and lots of conditions there, especially with registering or having an adjourned office. So I still want to be able to look at the flip side and see, like I asked the question to one of our guests yesterday, does Nigeria benefit anything in the long run when we look at the other side of the Twitter ban? Mr. Balaya, can you hear us? Yes, I can hear you. So I want you to finish up your thoughts regarding the losses that Nigerians have incurred during the duration of the Twitter ban. And also to look at the flip side, if Nigeria as a government might have gained anything, maybe the office that is scheduled to come up 2022 and the fact that they've said that they must employ a Nigerian director is that good for economy? The fact that they say they must now work with the FIRS and that they might be taxable. So when you finish talking about the cost, also talk about possible benefits for the Nigerian economy. Well, when Twitter was recruiting, the focus of those individuals, from their DJTs, they had interest in Nigeria. So opening an office in Nigeria has always been part of Twitter's plan. It is not new for Twitter. So getting the country rep for them is like a work in the park. For the government, it might be a win because they have been having a taxing, more multinational, particularly those in the tech space. Yes, and that has been through the Indonesia Act of 2020. Yet this is a win for them, getting more revenues. But that is not new. We knew that that would happen along the line. And even many multinationals have been bracing up that African nations will be taxing them more. But the major win is for the average Nigerian. This is the platform where people have been able to air their views, do business. Even people have never got admissions. So having Twitter back in Nigeria will greatly enhance the potentials of the average Nigerian. All right. Let's talk about the use of VPN now and how in any way that helped with cushioning the effects of the Twitter suspension in Nigeria. Did that save some of these businesses in any way or was that not enough? Yes and no. Yes, at the initial stage, it helps some businesses. But only those who could afford to pay the premium with this VPN have been charging. So the main winners there are the VPN service providers, which incidentally are not jewelry-based in Nigeria. Most of them are based in Europe, particularly Western Europe. They are the winners of this particular ban, not Nigerian. Because many people who went for those VPN services are at risk. Because how will those people make their money? They are going to make their money by selling those people's data, which of course is a privacy breach. So the main winners is not Nigerian because they're using VPN. Unless you have a particular smartphone, which is the latest model, has installed VPN. Well, you were talking about the pre-installed VPNs on some new model phones. Some new phones have pre-installed VPN, a particular model. I don't want to do free hardware to any brand. But really, there is a premium brand in Nigeria currently that has pre-installed VPN. And those who have that particular phone, or the models in that brand, can access the internet despite the ban. Okay. So now was there any... And what are your thoughts on the fact that there didn't seem to be any consideration of the losses that were possible before the suspension of Twitter and Nigeria? The Nigerian government didn't think of how much money was likely to be lost by this suspension. Do you think Twitter was... Nigeria was at so much of a risk through Twitter that the possible losses were not considered? Nigeria was never at any serious risk. But this particular trend, it's not new. Iswatini, the Gambia, it has been happening even in India and China. Many nations to put their agenda, the government have been restricting access to the internet. It isn't new. I would assume that is one of the reasons why some smartphones have pre-installed VPN. See, it's a Nigerian reaction for Nigerian government. They did it to protest what Twitter did, removing President Buari's quote. But that has been happening even in America, where Twitter is from. Former President Donald Trump, his tweet was also deleted. They weren't banned there because the comments then in that particular tweet was against Twitter's policy. So when it happened here, Nigerians were not surprised, but the government felt offended and sought to redress how they thought it was best. Yes, they were not considering the aftermath. But after Nigerians protested and even went online, they continued using Twitter via VPNs, they rescinded. That is no longer a ban, but now a suspension. And even the lawmakers also paired the cries of the masses and are waiting on it. So now we've seen the reality that yes, they are considering and they intend to lift the suspension, which is a win for democracy. So, Mr. Aguilaya, how I see it is this, the federal government banned Twitter. What happens is that SMEs lose revenue. Nigerians go ahead and use VPNs and they risk privacy breach and data theft. So all around it seems that Nigerian businesses really lost, whether it was financial or otherwise. Definitely, definitely. It's a sad reality that it's brought in a particular new business. A sort of Twitter-like social media site came into Nigeria at this period. From India that allows a multi-language, say, using more many languages to pass the information across. But it has not caught on. People are not really into it as much as they expect, but even when so far as using or taking President Mohamed Uwari as their brand ambassador. A bold move on their part, but it has not caught on as Twitter and other social media which Nigerians are used to. But who knows, maybe after the ban is lifted, where people can now weigh each social media handle and see, oh wow, I can get this from here, I can get this percentage from there. Maybe that will catch on also in Nigeria to have more options. So, yes, that's exactly where I was going. First of all, we cool. I downloaded cool. I used it for a while, but it didn't quite give me that satisfaction of a social media platform that I was looking for as a perfect substitute for Twitter. So, I had to let that go. But looking in hindsight to it, what exactly happened to the Nigerian economy and Nigeria's social interaction with the ban on Twitter, do you think that we should begin to see or expect more investment into tech and maybe the emergence of Nigerian innovators creating more social platforms that are local and you know homegrown? More investment in tech is an ongoing discussion that would not stop. The reality is this, Nigeria, Southern Africa, not the whole African continent is rich with intellectuals, with people who have ideas and not just ideas. So, I think I know how to actually make things happen. For instance, look at all these startups that are starting across Africa. They're not just starting. They are getting more and more funding. And a startup start in Nigeria ventures to Ghana, to Kenya. While another one starts in Africa, moves to Namibia, comes to Nigeria. This is showing a trend, a trend that African startups are sought after. We all know what happened to Flutterwave. We all know how well they have grown and many other startups in Nigeria, even in Kenya, even in Egypt. So, this shows that Africa has what it takes. Now, for Europeans who are bringing money here, they know that they can make more money by investing in this startup. These are millennials and Gen Zs who have ideas, who just need some funding. But the good thing for them is they get to portray their funds back to Europe, Asia, or wherever they're sponsored. But that's a loss for us, in a way, because that will encourage a degree of capital flight. So, it's better if we can get more Nigerians or more Africans investing in these startups across Africa. Okay. Is it also important in this time to hear from Tuta itself, with regards to the agreements that they have with the Nigerian government? Because we've heard the Minister of Information, Lai Mohamed, make these claims of the agreements, saying that Tuta has agreed on this and that and that. But would it be also important to know Tuta's side and understand what conclusions and what agreements they also have with the Nigerian government with regards to lifting the suspension? Fairly said. Right now, Tuta is not responding. But we do hope that Tuta, personally, will come out with a statement to either confirm or deny what the federal government has been saying. But as it is, you need to yourself take it as it is. It could be true. It could be a bit not so true. But it's the only information we have as of now. It is possible that they will have an office in Nigeria. Like I mentioned earlier, during their recruitment process, a good number of those roles recruited for, it was, I feel like Kavit was there, having knowledge of the politics and quality of Nigeria. So it shows that Nigeria is part of the Tuta scope in Africa. They know that many Nigerians tweet and are very active online. And also I mentioned something about startups. Many startups are active on Twitter. Now, a degree of initial proposals are sent via Twitter to venture capitalists. So it's an important tool to be active in Nigeria. Okay. So lastly, before I let you go, let's talk a bit about censorship because this whole began when Twitter deleted the tweet by the president. And if Twitter's coming back, they have a lot of agreements. Do you think one of them might include some form of media censorship? Because I know that, like Mohammed has also said that Twitter has to be careful because it seemed like they were sponsoring or allowing protest movements to go on on their platforms. But do you think when Twitter comes back, there will be some form of wall, firewall in the sense that you can't post certain content relating to protests, relating to things like that that seem to be anti-government. Do you think that sort of thing might happen? I doubt it. I'd say silly doubting. If it didn't happen in America, it did not happen in India. I don't see it happening here. Twitter has made this policy that the platform is for free speech. A while ago, which particular election it is, a particular Nigerian millionaire way to contest for a state election. I believe it was in understate. What demand's named? Now, when it came on Twitter, he was bullied. He was critically bullied. What unfortunate incident. But such things do happen. Now, the Twitter policy had not kicked in then, this particular one. A lot of people who incidentally were not using their real names because most of those handles had parodies of one person or the other. And bots. Who did he? Exactly. And bots. I assume that that attack was maybe, maybe, had no facts. Maybe it was a sponsored attack, but I'm discouraging from reaching out to young voters. But it works. He went back into his shell. So that is one reason why I would say that Twitter had this policy. People can express their views freely without being intimidated. Because many people have enough money or friends who are online who can unfortunately muzzle any dissent or any opposing voices, which is not good for politics or business. All right. Thank you so much for your time and for speaking with us this morning. It was your great weekend ahead. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. Absolutely. Next. Sports. Yes. Big, big sports news recently. Talking about Lina Messi and Wei. Why did you? Why did you react that way? You're not a fan? I am a fan. Your bias is so obvious, man. I am a huge fan. I will talk about Romelu Lukaku and his move back to Chelsea. Stay with us.