n rpa bruce hall to 24 to jets Thanks again everybody finest coming up Uh, yeah, it was random that I think two or three days later. We reached out to everybody Um, and it wasn't unanimous to sell it or whatever so Um, it ended up getting random Yeah Just uh, yeah, I probably need a picture of this.  That is what's going on in here Look at bacon That looks like bacon What is going on around here? All right guys. We got finest uefa. I got flawless tonight with sam and shon Elaine's off nattox live with some bowman chrome and some flawless Good times ahead. I say 6 p.m. Start with persil's on channel two with kyle. He's gonna start with a decent cue I believe I saw some orders coming in Who's ripping flawless personal tonight? Who's uh, who's who's buying some of that? If you guys looking for more finest or more flawless check the schedule. We have more finest cases tomorrow There's one on friday, too. I'm gonna schedule saturday when we're done here And uh a bunch more flawless over the next few days. So definitely check the schedule for all of that stuff All right. Let me just copy the titles and we're ready to random here So the checklist was out for a very short amount of time for me before I uh was able to make combos These are pretty darn close though Just considering the py t pricing that I saw from other places like these are pretty spot on though for 15 spots in finest So everyone everyone will have some chase here, but they may get adjusted before tomorrow. I'll definitely take a deeper dive into it Try to make it as fair as totally possible Some teams, I mean obviously man city psg ryan madrid those are like the teams you want still but Barcelona with the ronaldeño autos the ronaldeños come on man Dude rivaldo ronaldeño dual auto and I'll lose my mind. I might lose my mind more than than the mahomes. I don't know Not as big of a card, but I love ronaldeño Randoming now for tops finest uh uefa eight box case number one random teams That is a seven That is a seven names first One two three four five six and seven Bryant down to leeway and the teams seven times as well here one two three four five six and seven rial madrid down to frunkford combo That's not the right screen All right, you got bryant with rial madrid davis p has a simulon and leipzig nikolas Oh arsenal kopenhagenstein renae victor o with bayern and club bruce marcus b totnam rangers iax alexander with psg joseph m chelsea shane c man city ching l with barcelona victor o liverpool torto schoonway with man united cheng q with inter Milan and sporting tele w huve benfica atletico john k dormund roma and leeway with frunkford seltec and salzberg these posts will start in a moment I'm gonna give my bottle my bottle of water and then we will keep going everybody. I haven't had water in like two hours Especially after drinking coffee trying to get the link for the results there it is Okay, give me a sec guys You excited for the game on sunday? Oh my god It's gonna be a moment right there Just got to pull a messy now to get ready for the game on sunday. Hey there you go vaughn look at that. That's awesome, man um mudrick and obviously enzo Let me get up the I don't know if they posted the checklist online yet Okay, cool. It is there. Okay earlier. It was I had to get it from somewhere else But it is up now so you guys can check it out. Um There it is Yeah, mudrick and enzo and then i'm sure they have you know They have some other guys too the autos. They got like haverts coal mount mudrick Jao felix has autos. I don't think enzo has autos, but that would be like the um Oh, he does have autos never mind. He does So he's not in the base auto set, but he's in the finest rookies auto. So that's an insert. Okay I mean that's pretty much it for them. There there are legends in this aren't super great, right? I mean, it's just actually coal is fine chi haverts mount Felix Chelsea legends jao felix Is there for so many So many like, you know single-digit minutes just about all right.  Well, this is a long name random team style There's the results. Let's go ahead and get started. Let's get into it So we should get two autos per hobby box plus some color some cool inserts Again, the checklist did just kind of come out recently to like the public which um kind of thinks it wasn't earlier But it is out. So we're good to go What is our sp our sp is going to be the prize footballers fusion I believe I think that's the one This prize footballers is pretty common, but prize footballers fusion is a uh shorter printed card Yeah, all right, cool. Let's do it man Really cool dual autos in here like they've done with um a lot of the Chrome soccer products this year Oh, there it says around the box look for ultra rare prize footballer fusion cards. So the prize footballer is Pretty common with the fusion has like this It's like color blast ish like behind it's kind of like that. So that's a qr code Like just checklist and stuff Oh, there's that thing. All right, here we go All so fun For sure. Oh, yeah by by like a mile and a half man Knew it too Castiano's gunned him down. He got him All right, got refractor musiola moments of Guys bowman chroma flawless on fanatics live good deals on teams over there Bowman chrome baseball and flawless football fanatics live right now You don't even have to wait go over there get a team prize footballers carvalho rookie Like a design though You go, uh, Liverpool and green lava to 99 his name are psg. Nice. I like the design is Interesting take me a minute if you're used to The packs aren't fun to open. I'll say that So long go Nice Look at that. So 500 is a prize footballers rickiotto mcala mudrick Hey, you go mitchell It's a scratch right here. I'm gonna send a boxon wrapper. There's a scratch right near the uh champions league logo Very nice mudrick though. You're gonna have to gonna try to get that one in place for sure But even as is that's that's worth a solid amount for you Nusa Sheldorope Pulisic ricky purples morera jr. 299 going out to benfica Fractor and ketia that's sweet man A rookie variation. I think is pablo tori finest rickies action finest rickies pablo tori refractor is Uh, keppa which called keppa because That last name is not it's not an easy one ariza ariza balaga Yeah, that's what it is, but okay, so keppa keppa got it Prize footballers is messy with an orange prize footballers leonel messy That is so good looking dude 225 This set looks really freaking good, especially the inserts in the autos Yeah, dude gorgeous messy going into a mag for you psg. My goodness What a box that was a mini box Cavalio refractor as muds reach with a purple shimmer of layout of 199 for ac milan AC milan got stomped by enter. Oh my goodness That was That was Ridiculous by no gittens prize footballers and an enzo green speckle to 125 rookie enzo man All right. Well, if you guys want more break spots of this, uh, check the schedule check the site Next few days we'll have a rookie auto pablo tori for barcelona Because uh, this stuff is awesome I like this a lot I like a lot rookie refractors got nacho for manu got refractor of fati for barsa And uh, finest rickies is by no gittens What's up rookie? Price footballers of grease man with a gold leonel messy to 50. Come on psg. Come on, man. Come on Very nice gold messy Oh psg killed it psg and chelsea you're on fire There's a lot of value in this stuff This is it's a cheaper price point than like merlin and tops chrome and things like that Um, but you get that second auto and just about as much color It's good stuff. I mean, it's at a lower price point for for now That that could that could change Rookie refractor as pablo barrios for atletico moments of gabi I want to see a moment super factor I want to see a raldeño auto Spilliers spilliers spilliers got price footballers ailing holland I'm taking minutes to get used to all the new names as well again The check this was not out for a long time whatsoever. So I'm gonna have to uh Do our best to catch up Hey comma vinga green wave auto to 99 rialma drid Could hit there too Oh, look at this pack. It's like they broke through. It's weird Hard looks okay Yeah, it looks totally fine. It's gonna be a base car because it's the outside But that's strange refractor is pellet greeny for roma with a green rookie futabu to 99 sporting Color pops on these two the color pops a lot A cure-guard refractor for salzberg finest rookies alvarez for man city How they do yellow or orange here and it is a anzu fahti four of 25 bar salona Good color there Two boxes two oranges. I think we're doing super well Fractor of gray lish for city with a purple shimmer rookie by no kittens to 199 Arusha Dortmund. It's nice Dortmund rookie Messy auto I love I like to pull a messy auto Down with that price footballer is benzema with a sky blue to 275 jowl kenselo From bayern probably not going to top of all these at price of ballers. There's a lot of them It's one in three packs. So it's like four per box Any like rookies or bigger names will top loan price footballers auto rookie fabio carvalho to 500 liverpool Purple rookie is faziole to 299 for huventus Nicola faziole rashford refractor Antonio show so lock Show lock so lock refractor add a yummy for Dortmund's Camari finest rookies Gonzalo Ramos purple fahti to 299 Barça fahti rainbow is coming along here. It's still third. He's still third Two outs might not matter, but double steel The whole harbor was just whizzes watching. Um Whoever was a leading She's watching Fractors with charlison purple shimmer sesco to 199 for salsberg Guys, I think we have this in stock for personals too. I'll be live at 6 p.m. Order some up I'm sure kyle would love to rip some finest Price footballers just kaffu That's a new rookie barbie harry You have to muscle barbie harry is a new rookie. I believe there's a few in this I think every soccer set they kind of introduced new ones because it's Not like black and white house soccer rookies become you know what I mean? some guys Play senior levels Blue refractor auto is turnbull for Celtic to 150 They even turnbull A gold refractor after a soccer refractor is gold refractor de ketillere to 50 AC Milan Finest rookies of carvalho for liverpool refractor soba's live for liverpool Sorry, no lightsig lightsig It's a lightsig card. He is currently on liverpool, but Last season was all lightsig price footballers is alvarez with the man purple to 299 leonel messi On the man on the man on the man So I think two per box on the man inserts says 148 packs Which no is that a did a case hit How many packs in this 12? 12 blocks. Okay. So yeah, two a case two a case on average. We'll say that's pack gods with uh with tops, of course And then how rare is the purple Purple one two to 43 packs. Okay. Very nice messy messy. I was just a messy spot psg doing well Hey, there are there are breakers that sell like holland and then like the other man city And then they sell like messy and then like the other psg. I mean you could do it that way You can do in PYT's ricky refractor as aslani form inter Moments uh, is that kaku? Uh clover. It's like clover for uh for ix That was only two box or two and a half boxes so far Mbappé price footballers sky blue to 275 is kamori for ac Milan Fractor auto is shinji kagawa dormant. Good legend hit there shinji kagawa Every auto we've had so far is at least pretty solid I uh Truth all about three boxes. I'm a big fan of this Uh purple to 299 is tonali for ac Milan Fractor rookie is giri for stadre nae a sule base Rikki your factor is orally for celtic finest rikki's sheldroop for benthika Price footballers is vlahovic for huveh purple to 299 price footballers hennrick larson for celtic. All right Lollis and everybody right now right now flawless on fanatics live with lane as well as some bowman chrome Fanatics lane everybody go see lane Then he's gonna be breaking a little more going for Make sure you call him fanatics lane from now on Sure. He would I sure he would enjoy that Rikki your factor is illing jr. For huveh moments of Inzaghi for ac Milan Beautiful inzaghi Yeah, what's the was it again app dot fanatics dot live or no it's app dot fanatics dot live is how you can go buy on the Click on the stream You always have to sign in then So you can create an account sign in watch and buy on fanatics live now on the desktop app dot fanatics dot live Look at that, dude. Look at that Cristiano Ronaldo Prize footballers For sporting. Oh my god. He has he has sporting autos in this. That's like the sporting chase is Some autos of the youngster there. Good lord. It's like over half of his life ago Um to 275 is memphis for atletico. That's a blonde hair rinaldo. Yeah, man Parallels without you would do pretty well. I think yohanneson rikki got blue refractor auto turnbull agendo 150 Turnbull 750 this time Celtic. All right guys if you if you if you're if you're gonna go buy a personal box right now What do you buy him? You have pros and sips to refractor capital j zoos blue refractor gavi to 150 barsa Pre-gel. Yeah Uh, hazard refractor reamadrid finest rikki's of enzo It's full of super here. We got a rose gold coming up larson price footballers rose gold is st. Chikamada the 75 for frangford Oh, man mentor high stress right here one-on-one count basis juice top 10 two outs refractor tren alexander anold and the man ehrling holland nice insert ehrling holland from manchester city Uh, which uh, which moody are you talking about the auto? Yeah, the auto is the 500 I don't think there's been another I assume that's what you're talking about moose. Yalla price footballers What they purple rikki is aslani To 299 inter Milano Oh, we got aqua blue vapor wave is danuma to 250 tottenham Refractor auto is david nere spent benthiga There's another new rikki too. Enzo, uh, uh, bernichaea refractor de bala Trying to find the the the newer rikki says we go along here Try to point them out Isn't obviously, you know, a little if you get rikki's that little little premium on their first ones, right? Xer emory rikki, uh finest rikki there Royce refractor Another one of those packs with the the corner of the back card sticking out That becomes a thing. I mean nothing's wrong with the card though It's also it's also interesting, but it is the bait. It is a base card on the back, which is good mudric prize footballers and purple rikki Finest rikki is 299 is carvalio for liverpool. All right four more box I feel like we had a lot of cool stuff. We still got we still got half a case A lot of teams I think doing pretty well even to this point I was pretty good right there. I hate apple bees, but they make it look good on the tv All you can eat boneless Like it's something I would never do but I'm like man right now I probably would eat them so hungry Boneless wings are weird though.  I don't like red wings Fractor is edson alvarez purple shimmer louis d as the 199 liverpool. Oh halloween candy season coming up y'all prize footballers coffee Fractor auto camera carter vickers for Celtic third auto for Celtic. That was like merlin There was there were so many Celtic autos They were almost like guaranteed to hit at least two or three per case Seems like that's trending that way in this refractor asaka for arsenal Chili's boneless. I feel like some places do them fairly well Nowadays though, I yeah, dude one time I got like the wings from like a pop of john's like a domino's biggest mistake I ever made Was almost it was like the board that was like worse than like mcdonald's chicken nuggets or something Elliott refractor finisher keys carvalho Don't order like the wings or something from a fast food pizza place Some pizza places do have good wings, but You gotta go to the closet. Yeah, not the not the chain ones the place that you can still get like a good chicken parm or something like that Usually those good wings alvarez prize footballers purple pulistic the 299 for chelsea kind of thing about wings. I think about all food right now about all of it Rocker refractor is that's a new one too for club brews a yarn your knee or yarn spillier spill spilliers Where's he from belgium? Yeah, it could be like spill air spilliers. We'll get that there's like a piece of There's like a piece of fluff on the top left this one. We'll get off That's a new one too. Cholok or cholok for uh rangers Price footballer has been ogetins Iwata rookie to 250 for Celtic. I think that's a new one too aqua blue vapor wave Start talking about wings. Everybody left chat. They're hungry now Green wave auto actually cold chelsea to 99. It's good stuff there Mitchell again Have a good break buddy. Happy for you I know the the finest boon is legal wasn't the nicest to you But it's much cheaper price point of course refractors abraham for roma And a blue refractor is sun the 150 Tottenham you know gittens on the uh finest rookies bobby clark rookie refractor liverpool Price footballer's grease mon with a rose gold meter at t to 75 huve All right, three more boxes left Can't do it flawless doesn't make sense Put our orange. What are the orange messy up there? Oh, yeah, I know definitely good hit More uh roma and dormant you got the kagawa, which is pretty cool. We're doing well. John. Hope you're having a good day, man Yeah, I think I made good combos. What do you guys think? You think they're all right? I'm gonna take a look at it later really dive into the checklist I didn't have it for very long at all So I want to Adjust I mean all breakers adjust. We always re rethink it, but definitely want to make sure The man of christian pulisic Chelsea Back in champs league already up to oh, yeah, it's kind of cool. Alexander.  How's the how's the matches today going? Let me let me bring up the champion. Let me bring up the scoreboard here for champions league today First leg of the year in a first leg, you know, I mean Opening games of the group stage Sky blue rookie it has to know that's a new one too. I know I think that might not be new adly to 275 for AC Milan and they tell go out contra liverpool refractor auto ebra ham refractor Yeah, I mean it's psv. They're uh a little over their heads against the squad like arsenal Salisbury up on benfica real one ill union berlin Copenhagen galatasere 2 2 is interesting Fractor is king you know gittens Copenhagen galatasere is cool teti and boye the bowie l i'll you know see and can solve this for Copenhagen interesting interesting Cross footballer schriezmann rose gold mini diamond to 50 is kody gotko from liverpool Work here refractor is going to sell the gorgeous porto moments of in zaghi for ac Milan How many you got 10 and flawless 12 and boom 10 and flawless 12 and boom and guys for the next live with lane right now If you buy a spot now we're giving away silver packs lane is giving away silver packs You heard it here first ronaldo on the sporting Thing sporting a price for ball price for balls Fractor auto dire me for Copenhagen So silver packs you buy some spots over on fanatics live bowman chrome hobby pyt case and a flawless hobby pyt case Fractor martinelli for arsenal and a green viny jr. To 99 real Enzo on the finest rookies refractor graven birch Larson bluer refractor ricky warren there. I made a 150 psg What is the the url again? Guys click on that link if you if you don't have an apple device click on that link You can sign up For fanatics live right now and view the streams buy in All of it web purchasing and viewing is available brand new That's a little kind of To open the if you have something on the app you have to be signed in as well You can't just like have a burner account on deck and just you know like youtube just Coming in hot Again, they're giving away silver packs over there right now My res refractor purple shimmer rookie is casper Tankstead to 199. That's a new rookie Benfica Well, let's hit a monster card right here Muziala green speckled o block to 125. I'd let it go interesting I'll say the least It works though I mean, that's the first view of it. That's that's gonna change for sure. Give that like a week It'll look different refractor auto is a bada for Celtic. Dude.   Thank you ricky refractor is clem for copenhagen a Zare emory Kind of stricties Yeah, that's insane Sean Lane Price footballers mudrick with a purple rookie is best at this at 299 Liverpool Sean wandered in a few days ago with his Dolphin jersey on and a raiders hat. Oh, yeah, what is wrong with you? What is wrong with you for cure fractors outdoor for club bruge? I think it was friday, right? Yeah That is a gavi moments. Thank you. You know what else happened? I saw this kid at the mall once Carmelo Anthony next year is being a bowl snapper. I'm like Oh Oh Price footballers hollands Alexander on the tune of 75 for Liverpool There's like two teams that hate each other too. That's not like that's not just like random That's like two like rivals. Yeah, it wasn't like blazers bowls or something. Yeah So now the auto for AC Milan Colin Sam Ray Lewis blue refractor de Bruyne at the 150 for Manchester City A Bellingham would be awesome. We need we need a Bellingham refractors Anthony Work your fractor shung you oh Celtic finest Ricky's alvarez We definitely cooled off second half so far. We need to we need a big card here Price footballers Del Piero green lava moments is in zaggy to 99 for AC Milan. Nice This cool color that would look awesome with gold. I think oh, yeah, everything was great with gold, but that's a cool one What does lane talk about lane's acting like the game matters for the red sox Dude, don't be so insecure lane Not like they're moving up the game matters for the rangers. It does not matter for the red sox like the red Sox colludes doesn't mean red sox are playing games right now because they have to Yep Ricky refractors fuzziole for huve. What is this? Oh price for ballers fusion the uh, they're probably about one a case I didn't see odds that has a vlahovic for huventus Let me see if the fusion has odds. I didn't see it at first, but Might be different now. See usually they have pack odds for all of it, right? Um, oh just as one per case actually so that might actually just be kind of like case hit There we go. Vlahovic on the sp. There you go huve That's what the fusion looks like very noticeably different. Yeah Yeah, benzima aqua blue vapor wave the 250 is mulla for Bayern Munich Yeah, I like those those will do really well with like the big big names. I think it's the 20 card set so I've got refractor auto his desk for ac Milan us men's national team right there serginio desk Can you see if this little something something will come off? Precure fractors duet for stadrin a You're gonna pull back-to-back shields in the pack like I did earlier probably not the Hawkinson and and Sean Alexander were literally back-to-back in the inner box Rich lucked in and I was like What do you do? Camarie refractors Ramos It's price footballers is guns all the Ramos All right last mini box here got one more auto. Hopefully some more nice color Super factor rookie refractors Antonio Silva Benfica moments of record yet record for ac Milan AC Milan had a moment last weekend when they got beat five one by inter That was a moment moment to forget Price footballers of sesco green lava vlahovic to 99 huve box huve Oh, Billy's one at the end They wrote for nothing gave up four runs and like like the eighth And then still A potaboo rookie Finest rookies auto to 500 for sporting potaboo Maybe next case we'll pull one of those cr7 sporting autos Purple refractor rookie is valentine carbone to 299 inter Milan Fractors doku doku doing well at man city Fractor camada frankfurt's Patawoo finest rookies Price football Another base there price footballers of sun and blue refractor on the back is Ramos price footballers That looks awesome with the blue the color on these like my favorite thing in the set So far so we until we hit like a monster dual Until we hit that Rivaldo Ronaldinho dual auto.  This is a lot of this is a big recap, dude Not as much as Bundesliga, but it's a lot Bundesliga stack was up here To 299 of carbone basettic Camada politic Carvalho aslani larson tonali Uh, you know messy purple the man. Did you know I didn't realize I was purple at first. You know messy. Nice. Oh, yeah Yeah, I did. It's the other one that didn't have color on it Fatih Fajoli Moreira junior to 275 Memphis Alexander Arnold Adley to mori cancelo 250 muller iwata danuma Number to 199 sesco Diaz Tank steps, you know gittins layout to 150 son gavi de broina Ramos and xer emory to 125 all block Enzo to 99 patawu vini jr. Blahovic in zaghi and neymar to 75 meretti and camada to 50 koti gakpo True gold to your diketo layer and messy nice messy gold orange to 25 asfati autos of dest tonali abada that were me alcantra carter vickers neres cagawa torre Carvalho to 500 Patawu to 500 moudric to 500. There is a scratch right up here. We'll send a box wrapper to the chelsea spots Very nice moudric either way to 150 turnbull twice to 99 ashley coal Kamavanga, and then we had orange prize footballers of leonel messy Super cool hit right there. Thanks again everybody case two coming up next fire and whooping up on manu no surprise there, manu stinks Okay, let me get that uploaded and we'll get the random going for the next one That's good though. I like that. That was a nice product good price point too. You know, it's not it's not, you know As premium as like the merlin or the tops chrome Even a stadium club, but Still really nice cards You get a good you get a good value good inserts two autos To the odd is pretty solid too Yeah fanatics live There you go. There you go Guess who has the most viewers on fanatics live right now lane dub dub I'm also giving out silver packs over there right now Giveaways y'all giveaways Randomizing now for 22 23 UA for finest a fox case number two random teams Go 11 times Yeah, it goes fast sometimes Mitchell. I'll be like I'll check I'll check later and then it's just totally everything's gone one two three four five six seven eight nine 10 11 Down to brian. Oh, there's more the next couple of days though Judging by the price point and like how the product looks they're not going to last too long We do have more though. We'll get the list like next week Probably the weekend too One two three four five six seven eight nine 10 and 11 Real Madrid down to Barcelona We got posion k real Madrid jinwoo with man united Uh taco with biron and club bruce brian. Oh ac Milan leipzig marcus b francford selteck salisburg When she with liverpool porto dante m chelsea chunwei psg brian. Oh man city lance m tottenham rangers iax brian Oh dork madroma jinwoo with arsenal kopenhagen and stade renae brian. Oh huvei benfica atletico brian's k inter Milan's sporting and brian. Oh with barcelona It's postable starting a moment here. You didn't know that people collect Flawless Hold out a game. You know strong boli From starting pitcher to reliever to clover. He's got good stuff He's always had like nasty stuff Now i think they moved i could even come back to like something for some reason All right, here we go y'all best of luck. Let's do it Everybody forced here up in 22 23 club competitions finest Random teams this is case two by the way, you can find the results on screen anytime late in sports drives.com. Let's get started What's the score? I love them five or love them four Yeah, it doesn't matter Yeah, like the reds are not trying to win massive skid right now They lost like They lost like they got swept by some of the lost the others like they haven't won a series in like two two weeks Norwich and Lester, what is this? Oh efl. I was like what? Norwich and Lester's two of the better teams at EFL at least She means like it's probably on cbs I think actually a group stage. I don't know a check like channel five or something No, I guess not. Yeah, they probably don't do it until until there's knockout rounds. That sucks It could be somewhere but actually Oh, well if it's in Spanish we can still watch it don't matter We're gonna watch this beat down Not to watch this beat down The black and whites for I'm guessing that's fine.  Okay, because Ohnana is in goal. All right. Yeah, those are cool Yeah, we did 10 cases earlier JT Refractor Hongmin son moments of in zaggy Zaggy AC Milan prize footballers cr7 for sporting green lavits and 99 kai havers chelsea You guys laying his live on fanatics right now. You do not need an apple device to be on fanatics anymore App dot fanatics dot live is where you go We've got a dual auto. I've had a war to come of Inga and david alaba Congrats to real madrid Great hits I don't see any numbers. So these are not numbered. Okay, right making sure come of Inga and alaba dual auto Good stuff That's real Got a purple rookie of kola. Mulani the 299 for frankfurt's fracter martinelli the fracter damele for barcelona Got enzo on the Finest rookies there. Yeah, I've seen pops our pops ours pops ours hilarious Price footballers larcen green lava to 99 del pierro for reguventus Very nice del pierro there. Oh, that was close Rocks rookie refractors torey for barsa purple shimmer rookie gorgeous to 199 Porto He beat everybody too Price footballers musyala sky blue to 275 ramos for psg auto is no a lane club bruce Aqua blue vapor wave is modry to 250 for real madrid rickie refractors eluski for roma The factor is avanilson porto finest rookies there emory Price footballers mudrick for chelsea and that's a red That is a red Red kevin de broyna five of five Manchester city bryan o congrats buddy That's an awesome red right there. That's going into mag That's going into mag So i'll be back tomorrow. I think 10 a.m. Start time If you have more finest in the morning plus some bowman chrome tomorrow night Is a fanatics live stream only we will not be allowed on youtube and twitch So make sure you guys either if you have an apple device download the app or Just go to app dot fanatics dot live and sign up We'll be breaking there tomorrow tomorrow night is where the stream is our factor in kung-ku leipzig moments of um, uh, cloyver iax Price footballers is imbappe for psg. We'll be over on fanatics live more going forward. So At least want to keep it as an option. We're gonna have different different um deals over there different, um Breaks it's going to be Uh different kind of all around more giveaways over there Price footballers imbappe We'll do some auction breaks. It's going to be a lot different than like in the normal streams here That allows us to do a lot more to 50 is conselo Rose gold mini diamond for byron auto is grayless for manchester city Got udeguard arsenal refractor refractor danuma top num Shother root finest rookies We'll see the man coming up and it is a gold ronaldinho 12 of 50 Dude, that is sick barsa Who's got barsa brian? Oh again. He got five spots and uh doing very well so far gold ronaldinho. The man is going into a mag One of my favorite cards we've pulled today So pretty Two card stands here. Hey, what's up brian? How you doing buddy? Thanks for joining, dude holland refractor price footballers fusion also barsa is gavi Dude, it's two boxes Awesome gavi. You don't have to mag this one with that six short print gavi It says case hit on those i'm inclined to believe that's how it was last year I'm just always you have to go because usually top says pack odds. Yeah, I just said one per case I would still assume that is an on average pack god type thing But that's just what the cardboard connection checklist says Kaffu we got to 275 ton lungo rookie for sporting Really is all gavi super dang man I can't I I say dang well like I've pulled some supers like for myself before so I really cannot complain Uh, I'll door to 250 rookie for club bruce. We have an orange auto here It is patry This is unreal Barcelona the second box of the break Ryan, I know you know where insurance is on the site but I'll refresh your memory here Yeah, brian, uh, you can kick back and relax that might pay for all that might take care of all your spots Honestly, those good god, man the 275 is tilman rangers refractor rookie. Call him when those died renais Did he transfer yet? I know he was tearing it up at uh renais repair fractors allidu for frankfurt's finest rookies carvalho Hey, george, how's it going today got alvarez prize footballers on the box three I can't believe this is only box three Oh, that ronaldinho is so pretty the others are sick. But god that ronaldinho is awesome One of the one of the most fun things to do entertainings to do is go watch ronaldinho highlights And he was at barca is just a guy Was like poetry in motion so quick man What's a nose for out to what kind of beer is that I'm assuming that's a beer For here factor going to do out for salisbury Uh, gavi well that sounds delicious Yeah A pumpkin beer is fine. It's like a one a year thing for me I could but like it has to be done. Well, like a like a pumpkin stout can be pretty solid. I think Cross the ballers holland's 275 is tonally You see milan.  I don't I don't think this product gonna stay at the release day price for super long The demand is going to be crazy refractor constate shop for iax alvarez finest rookies price footballers del pierro purple to 299 benzema price footballers For real What other case? Rikki refractor as riko lewis man's city purple shimmer lucaku to 199 or uh inter milan Price footballers benzema aqua blue vapor wave is belling in the 250 Dortmund Fractor auto darami for copenhagen They had the draw in the first group stage game against gal atasare Byron taken down man. You pretty easily right now refractor is rashford I mean byron's got to be one of the favorites to go to at least the semifinals. I would think Finest rikki's kameri rikki refractor mudrick New castle on the champions league I don't know michael that's ambitious seska refractor gavi finest moments Price footballers holland's 275 grailish color match for city Guys nine to go in fanatics Got a record moments autograph ac milan to 100 Frank record there you go milan Purple to 299 is most solid for liverpool refractor pellet greeny refractor vlahovic finest rikki's alvarez Need a need born myth to uh Secure a win this weekend so they can go to the champions league Piero purple to 299 is kapu price footballers for um, ec milan again Rikki refractor potabu sporting price for ballers fusion is levandowski c on average told you very nice for barcelona again, though levandowski price for ballers fusion Barca is just they're just rolling right now There's yalla price footballers aca blue vaporwave the 250 is tomori for ac milan Oh, see now now now it's a problem. I can't read the stats. I don't know the stats Should have paid more I should I should have done better in spanish in high school refractor auto is verner for leipzig team over But I was in ap spanish first half of my junior year That was that was clearly I got out of there because I didn't want to do any work to baller What am I like counselors teachers like yeah, you should do like ap like you would be good I got there and I'm like this is a lot of work. I just I like transferred out like week one. I was like, I'm out of here Bala my shoulder up to 125 rookie for benfica green speckle So I never even I never even had a chance. I just want to play video games and and guitar and basketball licked refractor warren's air emory prized or not prizes, but Finest rickies it kind of is right lucric prize football is green lava to 99 is sesco for solsberg All right halfway through Thank you all very much today for filling up every single break. I had a lot of fun today um Crazy flawless breaks finest has been very good so far.  You want us to get the app and do the cards there too? You You got to watch second case jt rickie refractor is Baronetia for huve moments of ricard The moments are like all ac Milan like every single one of them is outside of like two Prize footballer sesco blue refractor sesco at 150 solsberg. He's a good one. He's been playing well Rikki Otto is is a haku puttahu for sporting Yeah, there you go, brandon refractor is ericsson for manu refractor dest ac Milan um finest rikki's puttahu for sporting Prize footballer son refractor marquinhos psg moments of zidane for real There's some ridiculous dual autos in this too. We hit the one that honestly Is like a little less like yeah, but there's some insane dual autos Carvalho prize footballers sky blue to 275 for ahashi Celtic Kyle horre auto for huve and a prize footballers fusion of erling holland Have a break brian Have a break brian We'll get that one mag. That one's going to the mag Fractor is sencho Rain over fracter. He got torre finest rikki's. Whoops. Uh messy prize footballers Yeah, it's just fun stuff brian o got five swats. He got barcelona and um And manchester city There was also prize footballers fusion of Of levin doweski and gavi Which is sb This is good stuff That guy's price is most likely going to go up and it's like he did the last few soccer products The demand is going to be crazy. I have to see what we've been pulling here.  That's not purple. That looks just like the purple You scheduled you listed the brakes You're right, steven gerrard the man very nice 15 cases Rich's prize he uh He listed it Sam, I hope you saved up your voice the 299 hit top day for Celtic Get your spots for tonight guys. Lane's also got spots on um fanatics live right now You can join fanatics live via desktop. You do not need an apple device App dot fanatics dot live i'm gonna make a timer for it when i'm done It's 275 average chelsea and an auto of gansalves for sporting Lane's giving away silver packs too Aqua blue vapor is yugarte to 250 for sporting refractor rookie is jed spence for stod stod rookie jed spence He did have a prism obviously. It's peening. We did have a prism rookie. Oh, it's hot in them last year. I think I guess I would have been this past this past season as well, but It's first top truckie though refractor imbappe psg Uh finest rookies like a tk Also psg. All right, let's see if man. You've got anything the second half Gaby prize footballers orange rookie or finest rookies at 25 jamie by no gittins There we go for dorkmund Nice one for dorkman. Gaby refractor moments of uh cliver for iax Mbappe prize footballers gold is philphode in the 50 Also, manchester city auto is in kungku for leipzig Look here refractor is guiri for stod rene and a green is levendofsky to 99 from barcelona I don't know john This is definitely a juice case Guys 14 total spots silver packs being given away app dot fanatics dot live Shelderoop refractor marquinhos app dot fanatics dot live Give away credit. Yeah fanatics in there. Yeah fanatics live is in there. Give away credit too, dude. That's ridiculous Come on now. I'm over here breaking. I can be getting break credit app dot fanatics dot live Got bowman chrome py t and flawless py t with a few spots left on each head on over there guys Get three silver packs as well Vlahovic What's up rory? How am I going to rip one of these when we're done? Yeah, it is it is for sure rory Benzema refractor rickard finest moments Price bubble arsesco number to 275 is an aurelion shulmeni Real madrid Black white united kits are very interesting Autos kevin the broina Oh, wow alvin's on twitch Chippy on twitch There you go. Hey, hey holland holland with the goal Dude, he is money That was the best sign they've had they've had in so long Doku refractor green rookie is veron for porto to 99.  I'm sure alvin's watching awesome, man Oh, it's like a deflection not a clean goal, but hey that guy that guy's he's gonna grow there Fractor is sakala for rangers fatabu finest rookies Man counts as a goal Especially when you when you need one. Yeah, you're down to one on the road Sun price footballers rookie blues reg here for iax the 150 Jesus rory rory is the luckiest person alive in soccer breaks. There is no luckier person rory in soccer breaks Fractor meretti For huve purple shimmer to 199 is edson alvarez for iax Yeah, but why are you over there? What are you doing over there? pressure waters lovendalski a Baranet shia to 250 rookie for huve Your rookie there green auto lay out a 99 nice hit for ac milan Nice lay out Volpato refractor for roma ecotique on the finest rookies with a tonali refractor Gaby price footballers purple to kids a layer to 299 ac milan last box of the daytime everybody. Good luck Thanks for filling up flawless and finest finest is full yesterday. Oh, yeah, simply too good That's hoyland's toilet is he danish? I think he's danish, right? Oh, yeah, it's helping northern europe danish Or norwegian this that's the two that's like the one or two Fire they're they're they're they're getting after was yalla VAR try to find a penalty. Oh boy. Oh boy, alvin. Don't look for here factor reg here for iax VAR gonna take another victim here price footballers holland's for handball That's a handball. That's a handball brother. Sorry alvin Auto is consola ramos. Nice one been fika fika consola ramos Antony refractor got alvarez on the finest rookies pepe refractor Harry kane from the spot alvin look away look away harry kane versus onanna. You just i'd probably turn the tv off Pierrot aqua blue vapor at 250 is layout for ac milan review refractors luca for iax and the man christiano ronaldo for sporting Sporting cr7. That's awesome, man Benzema there purple birch vine the 299 for iax Got a green wave auto hatate to 99 for Celtic No, not numbered they're numbered on the front The purple looks exactly like that like this one. So like That pink is just the color of it The purple's like slightly darker. We hit a a messy last one, but the numbering is on the front. It's not there so The purple messy i didn't i thought i didn't recognize it first, but i looked at i'm like If you're a factor do a for stade renai green speckle pepe to 125 porto Or if you're a factor by septic finest rookies comery It's all around us and that's we'll do it. Let's do a recap here All right guys sam and shawna are live at about half an hour 30 minutes from now. They'll be live get your spots for flawless Again apt-aphenatics.live Sign up right there guys. You do not need an apple device. It is desktop now You can join watch all from a web browser now But come from your own home. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. All right to $2.99 bourge vine de ketel air hattata kafu Salah benzema silva Muwani That's called a muwani there to $2.75 graylish halberts for ahashi chua mani Tilman tan longo tonali ramos 250 is yugarte to mori outdoor Bellingham Baronecea Leal Modric to $1.99 lucacu alvarez. That's edson alvarez and borges Um to 150 is regir and sesco to 125 pepe Shelderoop to 99 del pierro sesco levendowski veron and havertz to 50 is fodon And conselo to 25 by no gittens autos of ramos de broina in cunku consalves and Jorge Well, I gotta go watch I'm gonna go listen on the other side of the wall I'll be like takes his chain is so it's like touching his face Got but yeah, he's gonna use that sam will literally punch him in the face I don't want that on camera. No sam. Sam. We've had some regressor just make a bunch more schnicks Yeah, you got fatalu verner darame graylish Lang two dual autos of the same kind kama venga and alaba I was crazy two dual autos of the exact same That's wild right there. There you go, reyao Yeah, I think they're all one team in this I think might be one that's different uh, ricard for ac melons cool one Atate and layout this stuff is fire This I kept telling like guys get the break spots because Since not for personals guys. Kyle would love to rip some of this tonight, too Cristiano Ronaldo the man the young Cristiano right there for sporting Price footballers fusion is Holland.  Thanks again everybody Talked to you in a few minutes Sam's live with Sean about half an hour. You got it's all football tonight. It's flawless a little bit of NT The goods we'll see y'all later. Thanks for a great day


Good day, my lovely listeners! You are listening to the Forty Autie podcast. Tune in every week to explore inspiring stories and insightful information that dive headfirst into the world of autism and mental health. With all those tantalising tongue twisters out of the way, let's get into the show. Hello and welcome to the first Forty Autie podcast. Today I'm joined by Guy Shahar, the author of Transforming Autism, How One Boy's Life Was Renewed and the creator of the Transforming Autism project. Guy, say hello. Hello Thomas. So just to give everyone a little bit of background, Guy went through a bit of a journey when his son Daniel was diagnosed on the autism spectrum. In the book he talks about the development of Daniel's autistic traits, the difficulties in finding effective mainstream treatment and the transformation that occurred in Daniel after their decision to go to the Mithni Centre in Israel. So do you want to give a little bit of an intro into what the book is about and what the Mithni Centre is about just to give a bit more of an in-depth? Yeah, so the book is basically about my son Daniel's life up to the age of about six, which is when at the age of one we started to notice that there were some things about him that were changing and that worried us quite a lot because it looked like he was having a much less happy life and he was much less connected. So it's about the process that we went through to find out what was going on and try to get help for him and that included going to this centre that you mentioned called the Mithni Centre in Israel, which is a specialist centre for very, very young autistic children. It now only treats children up to the age of two. Daniel was slightly older than two when we went at that time, but yeah, that's what it is and it treats children in a very different way from a lot of the other treatments that are available out there in that it's not about trying to mould the child according to expectations that we have of them and of how they should be, but it's about developing a relationship with the child and providing a safe environment around them so that they can bring out the best in themselves. Brilliant. So that leads us on nicely into the first question, which was what were the early signs of autism that first appeared in Daniel? What were the main things that you guys picked up on and I thought maybe that's a little bit odd, a little bit strange, a little bit unique. The first sign of all was just that he started to chew his food and then let it fall out of his mouth so he was swallowing less and less of it. That was the very first thing that was just after he turned one and we just thought well that's a bit strange we didn't know anything about it you know and eventually it progressed so that he wasn't able to eat solid food at all by himself anymore and he went back to having we had to puree everything and feed it to him in front of cartoons. But that was the very first thing after that you know slowly slowly he started to withdraw and disconnect from us over a period of months or so that you know he became less responsive to our attempts to communicate with him to the point where at one stage he didn't seem to register his name and didn't seem to want to hear his name in that he might sort of almost do a pushing away gesture and a groan when when his name was mentioned. But the most difficult thing for all of us was that he became really really frustrated really easily and he had huge meltdowns that went on for hours sometimes and totally drained him. He sort of cried himself to sleep I mean it was more than crying it was like sort of screaming and shaking and just being totally unconsolable and then he'd wake up totally exhausted sometimes it would just resume there and then and you know so he was totally depleting himself and his energy and everything and we had no idea what we could do to help him. So it sort of went from that just starting to spit out his food to that whole meltdown thing within about six months or so. Very soon and I think one of the problems with the UK medical system in terms of autism is that they don't provide very early treatment it's very much sort of a late late stage thing. Yeah I mean it's a common experience we went there we were told wait and see come back in a couple of years if you're still concerned about something and we were thinking yeah but we have this issue now he's really struggling now what is waiting a couple of years going to achieve. Indeed and obviously from what you've described it's it seems to be quite seem to be quite a glaring issue and you did say that you didn't have any prior knowledge of autism you and your your wife at the time so obviously there's got you you need to find some way to help your son out. Yeah absolutely I mean we had I actually had more knowledge than I thought at the time because last year it was confirmed that I'm autistic myself which I didn't know about so I didn't have the the knowledge in the sense that it wasn't forefront in my mind but I have the experience and you know a lot of things that have subsequently happened in Daniel's life have mirrored a lot of the things that happened in my life and in my childhood as well. Oh well welcome to the team to the little autism community that's that's quite a big thing a very big thing but I suppose that having that experience yourself is going to be very beneficial to you know bringing up Daniel because you'll obviously have a bit more of an understanding about all the difficulties that it'll be experiencing in life. I think it does and I think it does on the level of almost being able to tune into him more easily and have a sense of what he needs at any moment to feel better. In the book you go into a lot of detail about how difficult the experience of getting support was. You've touched on a little bit about how it was you know hard to get lower age sort of diagnosis and treatment but what was your experience you know going about and talking to doctors and trying to get treatment? Not good to be honest and I don't know I think part of the issue is that autism is defined in medical terms by what they see as symptoms that indicate autism so things like you know communication issues and things like this they would define it by and it doesn't seem to offer any route to understanding what it's about to understanding the experience of the child that's going through what they're going through and it doesn't seem to give therefore any clear path to helping those children and so even when you know there are some parents who find that the health system in their area or the particular people they interact with it is more responsive but what's it more responsive in doing it's more responsive in diagnosing and that's it there isn't the real support and the real intervention to help the child even with the smaller pieces like the anxiety and things like this. So yeah I mean the book has a chapter of horror stories if people are interested in that sort of thing about trying to get some sort of meaningful help from a medical system but at the end of the day in our case it ended up as quite a good thing that we didn't because that forced us to take responsibility ourselves for helping him and finding a way that could make him feel better and happier. Yeah I definitely I completely get the difficulty with the the medical system my mom used to be a like special needs coordinator and she's dealt with you know a lot of kids and stuff she goes on like to go to different schools does outreach and talks to the teachers and gives parents training and she is just astounded at just the firstly the lack of support in general medical systems so although not everybody is an autism specialist there is a very low understanding of how to how to go about that stuff and I think one of the problems that you had was in those those settings when they're trying to get the diagnosis or they're trying to do some kind of treatment they're very they were very sort of not understanding of what it was like for Daniel. Yes. Would you agree? Yes I also I mean I don't think there's I don't think they have a lot of expectations of what they're able to do as well you know there's a they see autism as a condition that involves these symptoms they call them and once these symptoms are manifest they're there for life there's nothing you can do you can trim around the edges and things like this and so there isn't there isn't any real attempt because they don't think it's possible to really help the child become themselves become who they are become happier with who they are and how they are with themselves do you see what I mean? Yeah definitely and I just I am astounded myself at just how how little autism awareness general autism awareness and specialism there is even even for adults you know young adults there is a large gap you know considering like the mental health issues in autistics you know one in one in free having severe mental health conditions not a lot of you know like mental health professionals have autism training and it just seems to be something that's not ignored I'm not saying that people do it out of spite but they just seems to be a very low lack of support for that and with that there is a lot of you know different stuff and people who aren't you know generally sort of practice they're not they they haven't gone through like medical school they they have different sort of treatments I'm trying to mess my ways up there what I'm trying to say is what were the sort of alternative treatments that you've explored what what helped what didn't you know the kind of stuff that wasn't a part of the the general medical system yeah so you know the first thing we did was we just looked around to see what else there was and we tried all sorts of things there's one thing we tried called radionics which is an unusual thing where you connect with somebody remotely by Skype or something and they do something like energy work on the child and and you know it wasn't really that clear what was happening but it was interesting that after each session there was some sort of change in him for a while in that you know he might wake up after one of those sessions and and just feel a little bit brighter a little bit happier or something so don't know how it worked but there was some there was something there we tried homeopathy it didn't seem to have any effect whatsoever in our case other families have found otherwise but for us it didn't seem to work at all I think the thing that probably had the most effect of all the things that we tried in those very early days was cranial osteopathy which is you know it's a particular type of osteopathy where the the specialist puts their hands on the body in certain places and in certain ways and he seemed to respond to that more than to more than to any of the other things but none of the things that we tried in the early days were things that were going to make a profound difference to his experience of life and his quality of life which is why we kept looking it's more of more of kind of a short-term thing rather than a long-term a long-term thing which is what you needed yes and what you weren't getting yeah I completely get that I think you touched on a little bit about how it was good for you know sleeping his anxiety but not much to do with general well-being yeah I mean anxiety yes it would have been you know if it had been a profound cure for anxiety that would have probably have solved everything but actually it did seem to soothe anxiety for a while and then a few hours or days or whatever later it would be back as it was before who knows it might have had a long-term effect if we carried on plowing ahead with that it might have it might work you can never tell but our experience of it wasn't you know it was good and we still go for cranial osteopathy sometimes because it's sometimes helpful in a tight spot but yeah not as a not as a sole approach to improving quality of life I wouldn't have thought and when you were when you were looking for these alternative treatments you were definitely looking for something a lot more long-term something that really stood out to you when yeah why why did you go ahead and choose the miphany centre over all the other organisations be it good or ethically bad I think precisely for that reason because we wanted something that would really address the reasons why he was feeling unhappy and why he was feeling the need to withdraw and you know it was a bit of a leap in the dark because we didn't know that much about it a lot of the reason we went was because my wife and I both had an intuitive feeling that it was the right thing to do you know there wasn't a lot of information on their website we connected with another family that went and found out a bit about how they work but we didn't know that much and it was a very big leap in the dark because it was so expensive and you know we had to beg borrow and not necessarily steal but do everything we could to get money together you know so we knew that if it didn't work out then we wouldn't have the means to try anything else so it was a it was a really big step but it was one that without really knowing why we felt very sure about and we were we were actually quite pleased in the end that it's what we did but it wasn't at all certain that it was going to work out before we went and there were you know friends and family going what are you doing why are you putting so much money into this you don't know anything about it it could just be some some you know just another snake oil salesman like so many other things that are out there yeah and it's so far away isn't it yeah yeah israel yeah it's not just israel it's sort of you you have to get to fly to israel and then it's you know it's uh can't remember three or four hours by car to get to the place and it's a village on the other side of the country and definitely Daniel obviously probably didn't like all of that then I can imagine no actually we we we um we thought we'd make a bit of a holiday of it and we had a few days of Tel Aviv we went to a hotel in Tel Aviv and it was you know it was terrible because you know he was in a different place um he wasn't happy with you know the temperature there it was like you know very much hotter than england which isn't difficult at all he he just became very unsettled and very unhappy there so it wasn't much of a holiday yeah he wasn't happy with that that part of it at all so what what difficulties did you have with the the whole miphany approach initially now what what did you sort of second guess a little bit what was what was the main sort of problems that got in the way of getting the most out of the treatment i i'm not sure there were any because we'd sort of decided we were going to really give it a full go um and also you know we'd put our eggs in one basket so we had to give it a full go so we were very trustful of whatever they told us would be the best thing to do there was nothing they said that didn't feel right probably the thing that was hardest was that on one of the very early days we needed to both of us go out of the room and leave him with the with one of the therapists so without a parent and it would have been his probably his first time in his life without a parent and that seemed like a really big step to take and we really weren't sure of it so that was probably that the one thing where we thought hang on i'm not sure i want to go ahead with this but we did we did go ahead in the end and he did find it very difficult but it turned out that that was an important part of of the process and just even before getting to the miphany centre you said you touched on a little bit about about get actually walking on that long flight of stairs or that long hill yeah what was that like because that they they sort of gave you some guidance on how to so you mean the west so they they put us up in a house which was about a 10 minute walk away from the centre and every day we needed to walk um to the centre and that was part of the part of the treatment walking at that hill is this what you mean Thomas yeah yeah yeah sorry so he'd been he'd been very much used to going everywhere in his push chair he didn't really like to walk he'd like to be carried and things like this but they told us you know it's going to be really helpful for him to to to sort of work towards slowly towards independence work slowly towards being trustful that he can do things that he doesn't believe he can do for him to walk there so we needed to encourage him to walk we used to walk with him up the hill every morning and he you know there are a lot of stops and a lot of tears on the first couple of mornings um he didn't like it at all and again that was another time I guess when we were thinking are we doing the right thing here are we pushing him in a way that that isn't right that isn't respectful of him but by the end of the time there you know actually probably by the end of the first week he was sort of you know proudly marching up the hill by himself his whole thing had given him this sense of confidence and happiness and so that reassured us as well that that we were doing the right thing so the miphany centre has a few sort of maintenance containment offering interaction you know reassuring space and acknowledgement could you just give us a brief overview of what those mean maybe give some examples of how they enacted those tenants well I think that the main one was containment and I think that that probably encompasses all of the other things that you mentioned and content my understanding of containment and it's a really really important concept and it's one that we we use a lot and we talk about a lot in the charity as well and you know that we've got articles about containment and it sort of runs through not only how we want to be helping autistic children but how we want to work as a team together as well and be containing at each other in its simplest form it's the idea that everything's okay that whatever happens everything's okay whatever happens I can cope with it whatever happens things will be all right I think that message that conviction is something that every human being could would you know is the most valuable thing for anybody it's the one thing that can reduce anybody's anxiety and the question is how do we use that with children how do we give children that sense that everything's okay and what we learned was you can't do it by explaining anything you can't do it by you know telling or showing the child what they should be doing or how they should be thinking or feeling you can only do it by embodying it yourself because the child will tune into that you know every child looks to their parent as a sort of barometer of how safe the world is how safe things are around them and if they find that their parent is stressed the message they take from that is wow there's something to be stressed about here this is a serious situation there's a crisis going on and if they look at their parent who's stressed who's calm who really understands that who really feels and believes that everything's okay and there's nothing to worry about and that things are going to turn out okay children can easily tune into that from their parents and children will therefore understand and take the natural lesson and trust that that's how things are and it works on such simple levels like you know some time ago I was just walking nearby with my son and he felt down and scratched his knee and he started screaming like it was the end of the world and I just laughed warmly with him and it sort of calmed him down almost instantly because he was like oh well actually there's no problem here whereas if I go oh my god Daniel you've cut your knee what are you going to do about it then he would that with his sense of terror that something unmanageable it happened would only be reinforced and he would go more he probably would probably lead him to a meltdown so yeah it's it's really about embodying in ourselves that everything's okay and giving that as a cue to the children and they pick up on it and there are you know it comes up in so many um aspects of life um but some of the other things you mentioned well as well um you said about um offering interaction so this was about for example if if he seemed like he just wasn't interested in interacting in any way um instead of pressuring him instead of having an expectation I need you to interact with me or I have an agenda that you should interact with me which will not make him feel comfortable and it will only increase his resistance as he does for anybody instead we would not pressure him at all we would offer um an offer in a very gentle way and offer with the understanding that the decision is whether he interacts or not is with him and it's fine either way our job isn't to force him to interact but it's to make that available to him and make it interesting for him if he wants to so we might do something like sit in the corner of the room with one of his favorite books and start reading it out loud to ourselves you know and maybe look up at him occasionally as a way of saying you can join me if you want but it's fine if you don't want to and most of the time if we did something like that he would sort of keep he would tentatively peak up and then within about you know within less than a couple of minutes he'd be sort of right there sitting by sitting by our side or sitting in our lap following the book listening to the story it's just about doing things in in really light and simple and non-pressured ways instead of using a sledgehammer to invite children to do things and that that is massive that is very from what I've seen with a lot of the different overall autism organizations it's very different in the sense that you do have that offering and containment and reinsurance rather than do this or you get punished or do this or you get it's very it seems to be very ethical in comparison to a lot of the the other sort of treatments that I've looked at well I think so I think so and it's you know we're really passionate about that actually and it's like we've got a number of therapists on our team volunteer therapists and they're really great but we'll only take therapists who really subscribe to this this what's known as a more developmental way of helping children as opposed to what's what's known as a behavioral way which is about trying to get a child to fit into it to an image that we have of how they should be control and mold them into something that the parents will find easier or find better yeah because as well as being counterproductive that's also I think you said really disrespectful it can be sometimes be quite cruel as well it can be really cruel and a lot of people a lot of autistic people who've been through that sort of behavioral therapy really feel when they get to adulthood that it that it's that it's violated them in some way that it's it's not respected them as individuals and and try to force a way of behavior on them which doesn't match with their natural way of being it doesn't teach them skills to be independent and do their own thing and grow it's just a set set number of things that they have to do and if they do that then yeah I can imagine and I was very surprised about you know reading about it in the book yeah how long how long did you go to the mithni centre for gonna ask three weeks three weeks so although that is quite that's a good amount of time yeah what what I didn't say about the centre is that you know it's three weeks but it's very very intensive because the whole centre treats one family at a time only so you know they sort of five or six therapists I think we're working with Daniel and it was just him it was just and it wasn't only working with Daniel it was working with us as a family because they see it very much as a as a whole family a fair rather than just an issue with the child which it isn't well that's great that is I can't imagine how beneficial that would be I mean I can imagine a little bit because I read it but how did you incorporate those those teachings those aspects of the mithni centre into your daily life in the beginning it was it was in a very structured way because you know whereas what the ways had worked in the centre in Israel is that he'd he'd been in a room for six seven eight hours a day with with a therapist one to one and with you know they they changed the therapist every hour or so we needed to replicate that as much as we could when we got home so it was it was a very very exhausting thing to have to do but you know I did maybe an hour before work and an hour after work and my wife did some hours during the day and we had a therapist who came in a couple of times a week or maybe a bit more at the beginning to fill in some of the gaps as well so it was it was really really intense at the beginning but as time went on as he started to go to nursery we reduced the hours a little bit as he started to as he started to come out of himself a lot more we gradually expanded the whole thing so it wasn't just him in the room you know it was happening all over the house and so it was less structured the whole idea is that you have that very controlled in the sense of it being fixed in one room you have that very specific situation for a time but the purpose of it is so that the child feels safe to come out of that and and expand their their horizons I guess in terms of in terms of the the types of environment where they're able to feel good expand the bubble out yeah exactly so yeah so it sort of spread to the house by the time he was five we weren't doing anything in the room anymore but after that long of putting the the treatment into practice by ourselves it had sort of been incorporated into us were there any other sort of resources that you you um drawed upon after the miphany centre I know you talked a little bit about the davis method could you could you give us an idea of what that was yeah the davis method it's another I mean it's another one that we really like in that it's about helping autistic actually it works more with autistic adults in fact but it but they do work on children from around the age of five or six how I don't know how would they the language that they would use to put it I think would be to interiorize concepts things it might be it might be things as simple or as profound as concepts of the self and the other there are many people who don't perceive I mean and an intellectual level yes but don't have that sort of inner understanding of the boundaries between different individuals and that starts to do in mind blindness isn't it like I think there's a concept that that's quite you know known about in the diagnosis and on psychological understanding of it and is that is very hard for autistic children and sometimes autistic adults to empathize and not empathize but put themselves in someone else's shoes and view the world from their angle yeah I think so I mean that's that's Simon Baron Cohen's concept isn't it the mind blindness one and I to be honest I don't know enough about it to be able to say whether it's the same as the one suggested by the the Davis method but it does sound like it's very similar and the way that the the Davis Ron Davis actually who's the that he founded the Davis method he's um he's autistic himself he suggests that this this non-distinction between the self and the other comes from this it's a really spiritual thing actually a sense of interconnectedness of all things and all beings that he has experienced himself very profoundly but it's a it's a it's a way of without losing that sense of interconnectedness to be able to distinguish between the self and the other in daily life um but that's just a starting point it goes through a whole load of other things about time and sequence and they've got a whole load of other things we had a really really good therapist we were working with but she was in Germany and the distance piece of it didn't work that well and and so and also Daniel was one of the youngest people who'd ever been been through that so I think it was it didn't work so well for him on that concept level but I can certainly see the potential on it if we if we found somebody who was really really good at working working through it with him here but what they also have the um with the davis method it's a it's a little they've invented a little machine called a night oh yes yeah I remember I remember you saying something about that in the book it's very it was very interesting yeah there's some huge acronym for it which I'm afraid I don't know but it's um it's a really it's a really um uh interesting thing it's a it's a little device that is placed between his shoulders and it emits a sound to each of his ears at the same time and this sound has an orientation quality to it so it's all it is it's just a sound going on every few seconds and what we found when we when he started to wear that was that it did sort of um give him that sort of sense of orientation because one of one of his issues was that he was really really disoriented you know he'd go out he wouldn't really know where he was he'd be looking around he'd be sort of confused and lost quite often sounds like me well I mean it sounds like me too but I think it's um you know it's quite common in autism for that to be the cases yeah or for the fairies yeah and it sort of did work to sort of to sort of orient him at those times when he needed to be oriented so that was a really useful thing we did things like music therapy which again you know uh I really like music therapy and I couldn't I couldn't do justice to it if I tried to articulate sort of how it works but when you talk to the music therapists you know I'm always sort of awed by sort of their depth of understanding of how to to connect with the child and you see them working with the child and see them using music to to you know really just reach them and make a connection with them and get them to get them to feel good about themselves and wanting to share something and wanting to participate in in a joint venture it's a really nice thing I really like music therapy horse riding we did you know he learned horse riding a little bit which he really liked he really connected with the horses and that's quite a grounding thing and he goes to a little children's gym where he sort of does you know exercises for his balance and they're sort of really good as well and they're sort of quite grounding and orienting as well so there's some of the things that we've been trying since history but obviously our main focus has been on the on the the principles of the mythnotherapy and you know expanding that as he gets older or adapting it but these are these are additional things that have been really helpful as well that's brilliant so the music therapy did that help with the did that help a lot with the anxiety or was that more of a did that help more of the connection and sort of sharing experiences part of development I think and with all with all of these things that I've just mentioned it's difficult to say with any of them this is for x or this is for y it's again it's an intuitive thing it's just a real you know watching him take part in them it's a real sense that he that they're doing him good basically because you see how he's interacting how he's relating with them and yes okay it doesn't necessarily make any noticeable difference in daily life but it's an experience that's a very connecting and positive experience for him and one that you know you make adjustment can only do him good well I've never I've heard a little bit about music therapy but I've never heard of that no it's a no it for anybody who's interested does it work with adults or is it just for just for children so what it was actually designed for was the non-verbal autistic people adults and children and it promotes the orientation that enables speech to develop so people often people use it most often to to promote speech hmm I'll have to have to give it a bit more look after the uh have to speak very interesting did you have a few schools in mind when you were because obviously the whole choosing schools is a very you know a difficult process for anybody but when you when you have a child who you know has special needs they have different needs it's obviously quite hard to find somewhere that you'll feel comfortable with and obviously with the distance as well so how did you get around that how did you find somewhere that was good for Daniel well we live in an area where the schools aren't necessarily the ones that parents would most desire I guess and yeah so first of all I guess you've got the you've got the question do you go for a mainstream school or an autism school and you know there's you that's a huge decision to make in itself and we we decided at that time that we wanted to try him in a mainstream school because he he did you know through the treatment that we were doing with him he seemed to be going from strength to strength it was a big step for him and a big challenge for him but it seemed like it was something that would he would adapt to and and he would enjoy and there was a new school opening in our area which is one of these these three schools that had a you know very different ethos and we sort of really liked the the thinking behind it so we enrolled him in that school and he did you know at the beginning it was a shock you know there were you know hundreds of people in one place it was very busy there were a big class of 30 children so he was you know at the beginning he was quite thrown by it his academic work was pretty far behind all of the others actually way behind but over time over the first couple of years he really i mean his attitude to it was amazing he was really determined to make it work he loved going to his school he really felt good there and you know within a couple of years his academic work had caught up with everybody else and it was actually starting to excel it was starting to to be really quite exceptional so yes it was a good start in the new school what happened then though there was a there was an issue of bullying unfortunately when he got to about seven years old and you know the other children may not have realized that it was bullying but it was you know as far as they were concerned it was a case of they found a way to get what they considered to be a funny reaction out of him and they kept pressing that button and every time they pressed it it was it was an extra element of trauma for Daniel and after quite a long time of this it just became too much for him so he went through quite a serious regression at that time and he became really disoriented you know all of the games that he'd made since starting school they all just totally reversed actually and he wasn't able to to really be in that situation anymore he was still adamant that he wanted to go to school every day but when he was there he was totally disoriented and it can't have been doing him any good so we moved him to an autism school and he's actually he's actually been doing a lot better there you know it took a long time for him to get his confidence back actually and you know the knockbacks that he received during that that bullying period you can still see the effects of them now you know there's still he has a much higher level of anxiety now and fears than he had before that happened around other people around like in social interactions not not only not necessarily only in that sense it's it's almost like it's transmuted into a sense that the world is not safe and so everything is not safe yeah well I can imagine that that's quite contrary to the idea of containment I suppose yeah totally because if you go in every day to a school and you know that what you expect to be to have a negative experience there it's obviously going to affect and quite a lot isn't it yeah and you know it's it does and it like you say it's the opposite of containment and whereas containment is about bringing about trust bringing about confidence bringing about that you know that sort of sense of joy in life the bullying did the opposite of all of those things and so he's now carrying a lot of anxiety and a lot of fears which you know we're working with as best we can and just in our family but yeah it's a real shame it's a real shame because you know parents have to make this choice do you go to a mainstream score which will give the child exposure to the world that they're going to have to live in when they get older and you know the idea is the thinking that we had was well that will make him much more resilient in the future as opposed to a special score where it's a protected environment and you don't have the exposure to that however the other the flip side of it is that in a mainstream school everybody knows that children can be exceptionally cruel and you know that can happen and it did happen to the extent that it undermines and makes impossible that aim of getting that exposure to increase resilience and comfort and happiness in the in the world that you'll have I suppose there is a you know there's there is a dilemma because there are benefits and downsides to to both of them and I suppose that it would be very dependent on how their child is experiencing school I had an absolutely horrific time during school I was very good at primary school I got along with got along with people well I was very I was I was okay I felt good I was all happy I think the main thing for me was secondary school and that's when you know I sort of wished that I had somewhere to go to that wasn't there so it was just horrific you know from everywhere lots of different sources of bullying lots of different especially when you grow a bit older you know there's other stuff coming into play like hormones and different social dynamics and groups and everyone seems to be pushing forward in this sort of social world that you don't really know about and that was the main the main thing for me and you knew you were autistic at that time I did so I was diagnosed when I was 10 and were you supporting the school uh I had somewhere to go to and I had someone someone to talk to if I needed it which was nice but no very specialist support there was no one there who really sort of and no adaptations I guess of school life you know when you when you're at that age you you want to try and be strong and they're the cool person and you know I didn't want to that time to be having such intensive support and I I even shunned quite a lot of the support that I was getting for my mental health because I just didn't want to talk to people about it but I think probably that was the symptom of just not feeling safe with people and I guess being able to catch that in in your son was was probably a very good good thing to do and I would have probably made the same sort of you know same sort of decisions that you have well you know we got to the point where it was like if if this can happen when he's six what's going to happen when he's 12 what's going to happen when he's 15 yeah okay you know and if you're going to make if you are going to choose to put your child in a mainstream school it's so important to to be really really clear about what the school can do because the school that my son went to they were they were they had every intention of being very supportive but they didn't have any understanding of autism any specialist understanding of autism and so they wouldn't necessarily have picked up on the signs that there was something wrong for Daniel and even when we brought it to their attention it it didn't necessarily seem like anything to worry about from their point of view they thought we were being overprotective parents so you know they were really keen to get to to sort of you know do what they could and provide whatever support that they could but without that real understanding and that real commitment to making adaptations for the child that are based on that understanding and being able to notice preemptively what's going on for a child and to step in when it's when it's when the child needs it and probably doesn't even know that they need it or like you doesn't want to take it that's that's critical it's really critical if it's going to be a success and we do the rates of bullying and social isolation especially in school is ridiculously high rates of you know severe mental health conditions as I've said and I think a lot of that is to do with mainstream schools I don't regret going to a mainstream school now that I'm older in some ways if it if I was in a different school if I was in a if I was surrounded by different people it would be good if I'm surrounded by nice people but just because the nature of the school I went to and we had a lot of people who were just you know very toxic and very willing to pick pick on people who weren't able to defend themselves and it's it's a hard one isn't it yeah it is I am not sure you know whether whether one option is better than the other I just think it depends on as you've said whether they have the resources there in the mainstream schools and whether they are getting on because primary school is good for me mainstream secondary school not not too great yeah well I mean exactly for that reason it needs to be a really dynamic thing as well so it needs to be monitored all the time and you might need to switch from one from one to the other as we did but do you do you find that what you went through at school does that have any lasting impact on you now does that you know is that a factor in you know how you are as a person now or have you managed to to fully overcome it by now do you think uh it's it's always hard to know I think a lot of the difficulties that I have it's never been autism that's been the problem for me it's it's always been my mental health and it's it's hard to know whether it's just ingrained dummy it's just biological that I just had like a lower serotonin or I have higher anxiety or just it's it's very hard to tell whether my experiences at school really was was the cause of my mental health nowadays yeah but I do definitely think that it had a long-standing effect on my mental health and uh although I'm pretty much over that hump I still have you know remnants of it and possibly you know a little bit of insecurity high levels of anxiety it's hard to know what I would be like if I wasn't at mainstream school but I'm very happy with how I am now I did a lot I have a good social life now I've I've done well at sport I've you know gone to university and and traveled and stuff and whether that's because of mainstream school I don't know but I think in general even if you are at you know autism specialist school or a special needs school getting getting that sort of contained exposure as you as you said would be ideal for me it's just a assumption but I think that that would be better for me when I was when I was younger but I'm not I'm I don't regress at all because it's you know it's over now I can move on with it I have experience of it and now I can sort of help other people make the right decisions for their children or for themselves and yeah it's all good it's all good now and do things like podcasts indeed yes even though I'm trying to get the hang of it but anyway at the end of your book you boil down your experiences and learning process into five key things for other parents to learn from can you talk a little bit about these well containment is one we've talked about that a lot and a lot of the book you know containment is a theme that runs really heavily through the book because it's so central to giving the best opportunities to a child or to actually any any person one of them was to respect the child obviously it's not helpful to anybody to see a child as having limitations or as having problems look at him as a human being or her and see what what's there within that person and the things that you find difficult well maybe the difficulty is how we're looking at them and how we're responding to them and how we're perceiving them maybe those things have got a flip side that are amazing which we're just choosing not to look at so it's really respecting the child by by by valuing everything about who they are one of them was about patience and just having patience because some of the things that you do to help your child will not seem to bear fruit for a long time and it's a question of really again I talked about intuition a lot but really tuning into your intuition and finding out is what I'm doing helpful is if it is keep doing it and and wait for the response you know and it might just be one of the things I think I mentioned in the book is sometimes it's just it might just be a number of days and you will get some sort of great response from trying something to help your child but during those days it feels like nothing's happening it's it's an eternity it's going on forever it's clearly not working so so that's where the patience thing comes from and the trust as well another one of them is trust and and and that's about really having faith that your child knows what's best for them and that your child is going to take the best of any of the good experiences that you give them you know it's almost trust that you don't need to step in and do everything for the child you don't need to be over protective because at the end of the day that's going to make the child less confident more dependent and the last one is looking after you looking after yourself as a parent because you know for us it was it unbelievably draining because of the path we chose them because it was so intensive for other families it's unbelievably draining because they don't have a path like that and they're dealing with meltdowns for years and years and years on end and they have no idea how best to to support their children so it's about being compassionate to yourself as a parent and about not being demanding not feeling guilt it's so easy to feel i'm not doing enough it's so easy to feel well look i'm going flat out and i'm killing myself but it's obviously not enough because he's still suffering or she's still suffering and it's really about cutting yourself some slack and being satisfied that you can only do your best and if you push yourself beyond your best it's going to be counterproductive because it's going to take away your capacity to help your child it's going to leave them with less help because you're spending too much of your time beating yourself up when that energy should be diverted to doing the best that you can whatever that is however limited that is to help your child brilliant i couldn't have said it better myself that is a nice little list list of things to take away from this podcast it's been really great to talk to you guy if you want to check out guy's book and the organization i will put the link both of these in the description on the podcast it's available on Spotify i'll put it on youtube and it's available on a lot of different sort of audio platforms so if you just check the description down there you'll be able to find them is there any of a sort of social medias or links that you want to put out um the website is transformingautism.org org and i don't know all of the social links but they're in the top right hand corner they should be links to the the twitter and facebook and linkedin and all of those things brilliant i'll try and put those down in the description as well perfect brilliant thank you so much for coming on talking about your book if any of you have enjoyed the podcast make sure to tell your friends share it and consider heading over to my youtube channel aspergisgrowth where i talk about mental health autism self-help all of that good stuff if you have any ideas of who you want on the next episode or a sort of future episode or you have an amazing story or accolade you want to talk about yourself you can contact me at my email aspergiscgrowth at gmail.com with all that said and done guy thanks so much for coming on the podcast did you enjoy it certainly did brilliant thanks so much for listening and i'll see you all in the next couple of weeks where i'll talk to the founder of chewy gem a sensory items company for autistics i'm tomas henley and this has been the 40 autie podcast thank you for listening see you later