Welcome to Love Where You Live, a production of the Sheboygan County Chamber of Commerce, designed to help all of us become reacquainted and excited about the wonderful things that go on throughout Sheboygan County. I'm Betsy Alice. I'm the Executive Director of the Chamber. This morning, we have a very special guest with us. This year for the first time, the Sheboygan County Chamber hosted the International Athena Leadership Award. Winning that award this year, and as a surprise to her, was Donna Wendland from the YMCA, the Sheboygan County YMCA. We have Donna with us here this morning. I'm going to ask Donna just a few questions about leadership and women in leadership in particular, just to get that conversation going in our community, and so that all of you can begin to think about how to best elevate women in the workplace throughout Sheboygan County. Welcome to the show, Donna. Well, thank you. Thanks for having me. Yes, and congratulations on this big win. Well, I am truly humbled. It was a wonderful capstone to my career. Yeah, fabulous. To be the first is also a nice thing. Yeah, that was very exciting. So it's all a surprise. People don't know until the day of. So I just, as a quick thing, we're going to get back to your leadership piece, but I'd like you to share with us your career and how you came to be now the CEO and president of our YMCA. How did that happen? Well, I really wanted to teach swimming to children. I had watched swimming lessons at Central High School when I took my sisters, and I wanted to be a swim instructor. So I was a member of the YMCA, and they only had one woman that was the Aquatic Director at that time, and she really could use assistance. So I volunteered at 13, and did that then through 14 and 15. And in the 1960s, you needed to be 16 years old to actually have a work permit. So at 16, I received my first work permit and started at the YMCA as a swim instructor. Then moved on in college days to be the Aquatic Director and swim coach. And after college, Aquatic Director, Physical Director, I worked as a Youth Director, Assistant Executive Director. Finally, the Sheboygan Executive Director. And in 1990, when Don Lohman retired, I became the CEO. Well, that's really a great... So you've spent your entire career at the YMCA. The YMCA has been so supportive of my ideas and some of my goals that I just continued to grow. And there were always new opportunities. And I started to become very invested in the YMCA. We have great support from our national Y of the USA that provides, would you say, added learning opportunities. They provide marketing. They provide all levels of support. So that helps us as a local autonomous Y. Really a fine organization. You know, I have a history with them as well. So I appreciate the kind of investment that they make in people. They really, really do. So I think I'm actually a senior program director with the YMCA. We're sisters then with that. My original goal was to be a physical education teacher. But I was not able to go out of Sheboygan for college. So I went to UW Center and Lakeland College, which was the best thing I could ever do because I stayed with our family and also was able to work at the YMCA. But following that in teaching, sometimes people are not or children and teens aren't as willing to come to a FIED class. But at the YMCA, you walk in that door because you want to be there. So I think that has always provided the fuel and the energy. That's a really great way to put it. I never thought about that before. So tell me, you're quite a leader in the community in many ways more than just in your profession. Did you have mentors along the way that really stand out in your mind that helped you become the leader that you are today? Well, I was very fortunate to work with Don Lohman, who was from Iowa and came to Sheboygan in the late 70s. And he helped to develop my leadership skills through his example and also allowing me to try different ideas that I would develop or letting me head up different events at the YMCA and just helped to form some of my leadership ability. I've also had several others along the way. At the YMCA, our chairman of our boards changes every three years. So I've had the opportunity to work with top leaders throughout the county since 1990. And I think as women and probably anyone aspiring to be a leader, these people become a very important part of the puzzle. I don't think we learned this when we were 15. No, no. I've learned like from Tom Bellott to have vision and how to structure things so that you can reach your vision. He was one of my mentors. And Steve Larson, the last person that has led our YMCA through the building project in 2011 and his term of office just finished this year, he showed me how to actually make significant sales, how to position yourself correctly before you make the next move. So he's also been a great mentor. Oh, that's a great thing to have in your, I never thought about that either. When you're in a nonprofit organization, you have a volunteer board of directors. So those people in leadership on your board can often teach you different facets of what you're doing. That's a great thing. So if you were to speak to young people who aspire to lead, what kinds of characteristics or skills would you recommend that they, or even opportunities and experiences, things that you might ask them to take on in their aspiration to be a leader? Well, I think someone that's looking for leadership opportunities should maybe start, if they're younger, start like with Girl Scouts. That's where my initial leadership opportunities were leading an effort within your troop. Also, different community service clubs provide many things. The Rotary Club, of which I'm part of, allowed me to be the president for a year, and that was an amazing opportunity. We had 100 members, two of us were women at the time. And just to bring in more women to the club, of now it is more balanced, but to actually take on opportunities like that through Girl Scouts, service clubs, your church, serve on your church council, serve as a representative in school, just depending upon what level you are at. Just take those things on and try them and do your best. I think that's really it. There are so many projects and positions that children and kids can aspire to while they're young. And school offers a lot. I started as a co-director of the ninth grade play at Urban and then moved down to South High School and took on the social committee, which was fun. I was gonna say, that sounds good. Doing part for homecoming and the seasonal dances and things, so that helped to build some of the leadership skills. But in about 1990, I would say, I discovered that leadership isn't about always being in front, it's about having a talented team and being part of that team. Right. So it took a while to develop that. That shift of power is very interesting. I find nothing more enriching than being able to watch someone else get applause. That is now the high point of my career. And I don't recall exactly when that happened, but I know it was very clear. It was a really wonderful thing to have. So does the learning ever stop? No, it's amazing. Just last week, I read something in the Milwaukee Journal and it was about working with millennials in a leadership position. And this author was recommending that you move away from the annual review and actually do something on a monthly basis, at least, because they would like to know more timely how their progress is going. So, and then I'm thinking, well, that concept is not so new. I mean, I always enjoyed feedback. And maybe we should have started this long ago. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, we're having meetings for the annual review, yes. I know the annual review was always, as my career developed, always that time where you were suddenly totally unsure. Yes. Like boy, I don't know what they're gonna say to me. No. But really in reality, you kind of know all along. And in a good organization, I think in a healthy one, you do know from day to day, week to week, how you're doing. So that kind of culture, I love the monthly idea. That's a really good fact. I'm gonna note that one. We're gonna talk to our employers about what they're doing. Oh, good idea. Yeah. Because if millennials want it, millennials will get it. They will, I'm learning that, yeah. Yeah, we have such a need for workers and for professionals and people to develop early. Yes. Like leadership, our companies often say, we're gonna have to promote these people into leadership when they're still in their 20s and 30s. And so what kind of training and development will they need in order to do that effectively? And I have several at the YMCA in that age and asking to take on leadership positions. And as the top executive, you need to trust them and allow them to do it. And when you allow it, you have to know there may be some twists and turns, maybe some things that don't turn out exactly as you would have done, but you need to allow it and let them feel the whole event. I love that. I do because think about your own career and we're about in the same generation. If I think back to all the times I felt like I was really held back. Yes. By getting bits and pieces of a project or getting, not feeling ownership, but simply kind of being piecemeal through a process when I probably could have let it. Yes, definitely. So that's a really good change. I think that will happen. I notice we've kind of come from an authoritarian kind of workplace to now a much more self-motivated, from-the-bottom-up kind of culture. I would agree with you. The light came on in my mind after reading Ralph Steyer's book in the early 1990s. And I did a master's program with Cardinal Stritch and I did my thesis on development of teams in the workplace because it had already started in other places than Sheboygan, but it was fairly new to Sheboygan. So after doing a survey of our employees, I found that who better knows how to clean this YMCA than the maintenance team? And that a clean facility is the utmost thing that someone looks at as a member. They want a clean working facility, so all of a sudden you elevate the maintenance team and their director to where they have ownership of how they're going to take care of the building, when it's going to be cleaned. And they are happier employees. It's a cleaner building and the team structure works. So that was quite a revelation. Yeah, it sounds so logical too now. It does. Yes, that's interesting. So what's the most rewarding aspect of your position now in your work and in the community? I think it's seeing the young professionals actually take on a project. We do discuss it, we do share ideas, but actually seeing them develop and finishing the project in a great manner, with great success. Yes, wow, that's a great, great thing. Can you recall a time in your career, because one of the aspects that I should show this book, this book is called Becoming Athena, and it is written by Martha Mayhood Mertz, who was really the founder of the Athena Award in the early 80s. And I happened, she was a peer of mine in Lansing, Michigan. So, but one of the pieces of this is strong advocacy on behalf of other people in what they're doing. And so I just wanted to share, if you've ever had the opportunity to advocate on someone's behalf in a leadership kind of position. I have, and it's in regards to our Live Strong program at the YMCA. Denise Nugent, our senior physical director, and she's in charge of the gymnastic program, had worked with several people that had recovered from cancer at the YMCA, helping them become stronger through personal workouts and fitness classes. Well, an opportunity developed with the National YMCA, and they offered a grant to starting the Live Strong program at your YMCA. This would be competing among all the states of the United States for this grant. And they only selected three YMCA's each year to go through the development of this program. So we had to advocate for our YMCA that we had the correct staff in place, that we completed all the required courses, that our facility was up to par, and that we would have a strong director, which would be Denise Nugent to run the program. So we actually went through a two-year application with this, and we were selected. So it was a period of advocacy for the YMCA and Denise Nugent as a strong leader for the program. Wonderful. Yes, a strong woman leader of the program. That's fabulous. So, you know, the advocacy piece, I think too, about the YMCA in general. You're really an advocacy organization in so many respects. You know, for young children, for strong families, for good health, for all of those things that can really enrich a life. My gosh, change a life. Yes. Yeah, anything you can recall in terms of a family that came to the YMCA in a situation where you needed to show strong advocacy for them or help them along the way? We have several cases, and it's usually a single-parent family, whether it be a mom or a dad that is bringing the children in and need a little help through our scholarship program for membership, possibly childcare, working with them to make sure that the children are taken care of, you know, that they're bused from school back to the Y so that the parent can actually hold a job. We've had several that are struggling with cancer to where the mom wanted the children to go to some summer camp so that they wouldn't be home when she was so ill after her treatments and trying to help that family stay strong. So we've also helped people that have changed their lives, they've become healthier, have lost many, many pounds and taken the right turn to avoid type 2 diabetes. Wow, that's fabulous. That's an interesting project. So you talk about teams. How do you celebrate at the Y with your teams? With a high five and a lot of smiles and yeas. Food is always a good celebration. We'll have a special lunch at the Y. Now and then we actually have t-shirts printed. When we did our 2011 building project, we were so excited about that. So everyone received a t-shirts with We Will Together just to bring that team atmosphere together. Well, congratulations again to you. I mean, for your leadership in the community, we're so fortunate to have you here. Oh, well, thank you. And I just wanna say that next year, this award program will happen again. I believe we're gonna do it in November in 2018. Okay. I'm gonna move the date a little bit, but same kind of program. So if there are women in leadership or people who really promote women to leadership positions, they can be a man or a woman, please consider nominating them for our Athena International Leadership Award. So congrats to Donna. Oh, thank you Betsy. Yes. And next on our program, we were going to welcome Sean Jackson, who is the new Community Relations Director at the Sheboygan County Chamber of Commerce. So please stay with us. Welcome back to Love Where You Live, a production of the Sheboygan County Chamber. I'm Betsy Alice, glad to be here today. And we have a special guest on this segment of our program. Sean Jackson is the new Community Relations Director at the Chamber. Welcome Sean. Thank you Betsy. Good to be here. Yeah. We have, we searched far and wide and we came up with someone from Sheboygan. You did. Yeah. That was great. So tell us a little bit about yourself Sean and what, first of all, kind of what your background is professionally and then maybe let special talents you think you bring to the Chamber. Okay. I said I am from Sheboygan, born and raised in Sheboygan County. I moved away to go to college and had been working in the restaurant industry for a long time. And somehow found my way out to West Bend, Wisconsin and owned a restaurant out there for 10 years. And I had, I know, a lot of work. And I actually was smart enough to buy another one down near O'Connor Walk for about a four year stretch in the middle. So after I was tired of working 90 hour weeks and gonna have my first child moved out of the restaurant business, I spent the next 14 years in two industries, one in autos, sales, sales management, general sales management, finance director. So ran that gamut. Also spent five years as the consumer lending manager for Collar Credit Union. So I've been back in Sheboygan for about 13 years. But I've also been involved in service organizations like the Kwanas of Greater Sheboygan. I was the president with them. Sheboygan Liars Club, which, you know. Yeah, I love that. Has to do with dice, not the other thing. But, you know, handicapped organizations we've supported and involved in the Elks, helping with their junior bullying program with my kids. So, yeah, love this community. It's just, you know, the whole county is amazing. The features and amenities, the state parks are awesome. The lakefront, obviously, road America, the Gulf. I mean, you know, probably the best county to live in. It is, I think it is. We are very lucky. So you've been on the job now for about a month. So what are your first impressions of the Sheboygan County Chamber? Like I said, I was a business owner and I was involved in a chamber. It was a good chamber, but it was a, you know, a local community chamber. And they were, what they did was good, but it was a little limited. And what I'm seeing in the Sheboygan County Chamber is just a very vibrant chamber, over 900 members in all segments, all sizes from, you know, single mom and pop retail shop all the way up to large manufacturers. The Sheboygan County Chamber offers so many benefits and programs and events where there's not a thing that a business can't latch onto and learn from, be educated, benefit from. So yeah, just incredibly vibrant chamber. Yeah, I think the hardest part for the members is selecting. You know, they're expanding the entire scope. So we always try to figure out what might most interest them, but it's hard. It is. And that's, you know, the part of my job is gonna try to match up, you know, the retailers, their goals and their visions for their company or their business with what we offer and try to help them succeed. Absolutely. So what, what, another first impression, I guess, after just a month, what do you see as maybe the high value offerings to the whole gamut of members? There's so many, it's hard to pick. You know, the business roundtables stood out to me right away because I had been involved in roundtables before, but the ones we do are facilitated by our John Rogers and he does an awesome job. So he really keeps focus on what they're trying to accomplish in the roundtables.  I'll talk about the innovation one because I sat in on that one and, you know, there was some higher level folks from healthcare and manufacturing and the school district, but as a previous business owner, again, I looked at a restaurant owner could sit in the innovation roundtable, a repair shop could, you know, pretty much anybody could sit on that because we're all concerned with innovation as a business owner, you know, staying ahead of the curve, finding out what's new, how to- Solving problems.  Yeah, yeah, they're amazing and they're offered at no additional cost. Which is amazing because there's a lot of places that charge for roundtables. That's business part of your membership, so. Yeah, it is a nice benefit. Anything else, any other high value offerings? I think really any good chamber just does a good job at networking their folks and getting referrals and we do a tremendous job at that. I mean, our phone is ringing nonstop, people calling in and asking about, you know, where to go for this or where to go for that or how can I get this and us giving out tons of referrals, both over the phone and our website, our website, shaboygon.org.  It is, it's the portal for anyone looking to, you know, visit, relocate to open a business in Shaboygon County. Everybody comes to our site. We had a new member, see both deli, great place on the south side of Shaboygon. Yeah, nice ad there. Yeah, I know. But, you know, they've been, a little over three months they've been a member and I just looked yesterday, they've had over 560 directory hits, people coming to our website and opening up their directory to find out about that business. And even better yet, they've had over 260 click-throughs to their website, from our website. And probably to see the menu. Exactly, and again, that business listening is free to them. It's a great way for referrals and you pay a lot more for that and go into, you know, some companies. Absolutely. So, I know you've been scrambling so far, it's only been a month. Fantastic. And occasionally, you'll have a success at something more than occasionally and I'll hear about it later and I'll say, Shawn, you know, you need to just email me, let me know that happened. I love that stuff. So, I know you've been scrambling to get ahead in a variety of areas. How do you determine what your priorities are and what might they be at this point? Boy, I think my biggest priority right now, other than learning everything I can about the chamber, is networking with our members. You know, to me, I take this job very personally because I live here, my kids are here, I wanna raise my family, I wanna support my community, I wanna make things better. So, getting out and meeting with the members to find out what they're all about. You know, what do they do? What are they looking for for me in the chamber? Who can I get them involved with that could help them? And I just take it personally.  That doesn't roll off the tongue very easily. Just, I wanna be the chamber guy. Yeah. Any member or anybody looking to be a member, call the chamber guy and we'll help you out. All right, I love that. I'll start referring to you that way. So, what in this job appealed to you and still appeals to you the most? Every day is different.  You can see from my resume that I'm always involved in something. I love to network with people. I love to help people. So, it's really just getting out there and being able to do so many different things on a daily basis that I hopefully will help impact and strengthen our business community. That's great. You know, once in a while I refer to it like, what's the memory card game you play with your kids where you flip the cards over? Oh, the memory game, yeah. Well, I feel like that at our events or at our expo, things where I go, oh, that business does that. Wow, there's a business over there they need to meet. I think that's one of the strongest things our staff offers and our ambassadors offer is that ability to connect business to business. It is my passion and yours too, I'm sure, to have Sheboygan County businesses doing as much business as possible right here in Sheboygan County. And, you know, we have 100,000 people in the county, over 3,500 businesses. There's so much more work we can do to help. I agree with you. And I also just want to reference very quickly the workforce development piece and our Coastal Young Professionals Group. Yes. And our advocacy. Our business advocacy has been coming on very strong in the last couple of years. So, we have a great team at the chamber, I will say the work is being done by some top professionals there. So, if your business has any interest in joining the chamber, call the chamber guy. And he will, he's very responsive and we have a lot of things that I think we can help you with. So, thank you, Sean, for joining us today. Congrats on the position. We're thrilled to have you. I'm thrilled to be here. All right, great. Thanks.


So we were, we wanted to finish group theory today. We were talking about the CELO theorems, and the only thing that was missing was the proof of the third CELO theorem. Ah, so I'm supposed to, okay. So we had, so the third CELO theorem said the following. So if, again, we have that, we have a group such that the number of elements is n which is equal to p to the m times r. And we assume, as usual, that p does not divide r. So then, so we look at, we want to know how many p-CELO subgroups are there. And so the statement is if let S be the number of p-CELO subgroups. Then, we have first that S divides r. I will now kind of always use this notation for divides, no? And S is congruent 1 modulo p. So if you divide S by p, the rest is 1. So we don't precisely know what the number of p-CELO subgroups is, but we get some good estimate we have seen in some of the applications. That is sometimes when numbers are not too big, for instance, allows you to conclude that the number of p-CELO subgroups is indeed 1. We had some cases where this was the case. Okay, so now we want to come to the proof. So we had them a corollary to, so proof. So a corollary to the second CELO theorem told us that all p-CELO subgroups are conjugated. All CELO subgroups are conjugated. Now, you remember this, the statement was much more precise. Contrugated anyway, so I may be right in such a way that I can actually read it, although. So they are conjugated to each other. So I can say they are conjugated to one given one to one p-CELO subgroup, which I call H, so I've kind of picked out one. So we have that G acts on these p-CELO subgroups by conjugation. So by the stabilizer under this conjugation action of H is the normalizer of H. So that means that the number of CELO subgroups, which is just the number of elements in the orbit of H. So it means that S is equal to the number of elements in the orbit of H is therefore equal to the index by the orbit stabilizer theorem to the index of NH in G. Now NH is a subgroup of G and H is a subgroup of NH. So H is a subgroup of NH and NH is a subgroup of G. So therefore we find that the index of NH in G, which is our number S, divides the index of G in H. Namely, by an exercise we know that we just have that this number, the index of G in H, is just a product of this and the index of NH of H in NH. So this was an old exercise in the first session that G H is equal to G NH times NH H. Well, and so that's it because the index of the p-CELO subgroup is precisely R, because the group H has p to the m elements. So this proves the first statement. So this first statement is basically obvious. Now we have to show that S is congruent to 1 modulo p. It's also not very difficult. So we look at this set, so first we look at the set H1 to HS is a set of p-CELO subgroups. Now, we know that G acts on it by conjugation and the subgroup, if I take a subgroup of G, it also acts on it by conjugation. So I can take H to act on, you know, also the subgroup H of G acts on this set of by conjugation. So G acts on the set by conjugation and therefore also H. So we can decompose this set into orbits for the action of H. We know that if you take the action of G, there's only one orbit because they are all conjugate. But H is a subgroup, so there might be more. And I will, so these are, we know that, so one of these CELO subgroups is after all, the group we chose, so the first one we call H. If H was one of our p-CELO subgroups. So we have this, so we want to know how many, you know, we want to see that S is congruent to one more p. So we want to see that, basically we want to see that there's one orbit which has one element and all the other orbits have a number of elements divisible by p. So we can look at the orbit of H. So obviously, so the orbit, I'll first say, the orbit of, do I really, you know, of H i, consists only of the element H i itself, so only of one element, if and only if H is contained in the normalizer of H i. The normalizer of H i are all the elements such that if I conjugate with it, I get back H i. So and you know, we want to, we look at the conjugation with elements in H, so they won't do anything to H i if and only if H is contained in the normalizer of H i. So now we can, so in this case, I say that both H and H i are pseudosubgroups of the normalizer of H i, because the normalizer of H i is a, you know, is a subgroup of G. So the maximal power of p that divides the number of elements can be at most this m, but H is contained at it, so it is m. So the pseudosubgroup of it will have p to the m will be this h. There cannot be a bigger p group inside n of H i, because, you know, it must be contained in G, the number of elements. So maybe the number of elements in n of H i divides the number of elements in G, because it's a subgroup of G, so thus which is equal to p to the m times r. So it follows that the largest power of p which can be contained in this is p to the m. On the other hand, we do have a subgroup of order p to the m contained in it, because h is, in under our assumptions, h is contained in it, so therefore this is the p0 subgroup. But if this is the case, so H i, by definition of the normalizer, H i is a normal subgroup of n of H i, you know, because the, you know, n of H i is just all the, so just if you look at the definition, it's a normal subgroup. So all the p0 subgroups of n of H i are conjugate to each other in this n of H i, so and, but this one is a normal subgroup, so it means all p0 subgroups are equal to this one. So it means H i is equal to H, a conjugate, now in n of H i, it follows that, you know, as it's a normal subgroup, it cannot be conjugated to anything else than itself, it follows that H is equal to H i. So under the assumption that the orbit of H i consists only of H i, we find that H i must be equal to H, okay. On the other hand, if we look at H, obviously the orbit under conjugation by H of H is also H itself. So we find there's precisely one orbit which has only one element, so thus the orbit of H is the only one with only one element. And now we will want to, you know, so by the orbit stabilizer theorem, so if we have any out, for any other, for any other H i, and by the orbit stabilizer theorem, we have that the number of elements in the orbit is a divisor of the number of elements in the group that acts, which is H. So the number of elements in the orbit, so under, so H acts on this, the under of elements which lie in the orbit under conjugation of H on this, so number of elements in the orbit. So the number of elements in the orbit is a divisor of the number of elements in H, which is P to the m. So and it's a divisor which is not one, because we know that the only case when the number of elements in the orbit is one is when this pseudosubgroup is H itself. So it follows thus the number of elements in the orbit is divisible by P, no, and this is not one. It's different from one, okay. So thus this number is divisible by P, so we find we can decompose the set H1 to Hs into disjoint subsets, namely the orbits, so thus H, so this thing H1 to Hs is a disjoint union of orbits. So such that one of them has one element and the order of all others is divisible by P, have a number of elements divisible by P. So it follows that the number S, the number of elements here, number S, leaves rest one if one divides by P, thus S is congruent to one. So it's not, okay, so that's, that is it. So it's not, this one is in some sense is not so difficult but maybe slightly tricky to take this action by H, but in some sense we just use the standard results of a stabilizer theorem a few times and there was nothing really fancy going on. And maybe kind of using that, if you have a normal subgroup then it's fixed by the conjugation and whatever, okay. So maybe that's now it for the, for the CELO theorems, are there questions about this? I should say that you are looking, anyway, so I mean I can also, if it's not clear I can also repeat some part but in some sense it's really an elementary argument, it's only a bit more complicated than what we had in the beginning. So the CELO theorems were certainly the most complicated part of the group theory. I mean mostly because we somehow put everything together that we learned until now and kind of expected to be able to use it freely without, kind of, okay. So maybe that's now enough if there are no further questions, I will start with rings. So basically in this group theory there was a certain acceleration, it got slightly more difficult towards the end and with the rings we start again by zero and it again starts quite easily. We just give the basic definitions of rings and the first properties. So basically, from school you kind of know the integers and you kind of know that you can add them and you can multiply them. And you can also take, you have a neutral element for the addition and the additive inverse in the integers. But you don't always, you don't necessarily have a multiplicative inverse of every element. So a ring is something which kind of has this property that you have some set where you have an addition and multiplication and the addition forms a group and the multiplication at least is a little bit compatible with the addition. And so that some of the properties that you're used to from the integers still hold most of them. So let's just give the definition. So a ring is a non-empty set R together with two binary operations. Operations, which just means maps from R times R to R.   Such that with the addition R is a commutative group. So also we have a distinguished element and an element C0 in R. Such that if I take R together with the addition, this is a commutative group like the integers with addition with neutral element 0. And we will always know for this additive group, we use the additive notation. So the inverse of an element is minus A and so on. This is the first thing. And then we have this operation and it should be somewhat compatible. And this is reflected first, the multiplication should be associative. And second, it should be compatible with the addition, which means there's a distributive law. So such that maybe, so this is the first statement. The second is we have the multiplication associative. So that means for all A, B, C in R, we have A times B times C. This is the same as if I do it in the other order. And we have this compatibility between additional multiplication, which is the distributive laws. Namely, we have A times B plus C is equal to A times B plus A times C. And say B plus C times A is equal to B times A plus C times A. So I don't here, for the moment, I do not assume that the multiplication is commutative. So this is it. And so this is the definition of a ring. I do not require that I get a group with a multiplication. And I do not require that multiplication is commutative, but we have these laws.  I call is called the additive group of R. And I call 0, one can also call the 0 element of R. And I will, as usual, from now on, I can also just not write the dot for multiplication, as I did also for the multiplication in groups. And obviously, the typical example is that if I take Z, together with the usual addition and the usual multiplication, this is the ring. And the 0 is the 0 of R. Maybe I don't need that now. So now that we have rings, we can define subrings. So like with groups, if you have a ring and you have a subset of a ring, it's called a subring.  So practically, that means, so to check it, this means the definition that R be your ring and A subset R subset. It is a subring of R. By definition, if the following holds first, we have that if I take A plus, so A is a subgroup of the group R with the addition. Now we know how one checks for a subset to be a subgroup. For instance, for every element, A and A minus the element is contained for any two elements, A B and A A plus B is contained. And the second is that it is closed under multiplication. So for all A, B, and A, we have that A times B is an element in A. And then obviously, by definition, if I take A and give it the restriction of the addition on R and the restriction of the multiplication to A, this is again a ring. So a typical example, a simple example, is for instance 2z, which we had before. Set of all 2n such that n is in z is a subring of C. So we'll later restrict attention to commutative rings. So what does it mean for a ring to be commutative? We have assumed in the definition of a ring that the addition is always commutative. So the ring is commutative if the multiplication is also commutative. It's called commutative if the multiplication is commutative. So if A times B is equal to B times A for all A, B in R. As I said, the addition is anyway commutative. So for instance, the integers are commutative ring. Of course, multiplication is commutative. In the integers, we also have a neutral element for the multiplication. If you multiply anything by 1, we get back the element. So this would be such an element is called a unit element. So definition, an element 1, I noted by 1. But in some cases, it would be not the number 1, but just something called 1, which is an element R, which is different from 0. So we require this element to be not the 0 element. It's called a unit element. So in a moment, we will also talk about something which is called a unit. That's something different. So a unit element is the element 1. It's called a unit element if it's a neutral element of multiplication. So if for all elements A and R, we have 1 times A is equal to A times 1 is equal to A. And such an element does not always. And so it's easy to check. I mean, you can do it. It's like for an easy exercise to see that in this case, if such an element exists, it is unique. And check that. And if R does contain such a unit element, one calls it a unitary ring or a ring with 1. So I'm only telling you definitions. So nothing at all is happening. There are all these words which eventually you will have to master. But obviously, I have not done anything. So if R contains a unit element, then it's called a unitary ring or a ring with 1. I usually just use that or a ring. So we can see that, for instance, the integers Z contain a unit element, namely the 1 in Z. And 2Z does not contain a unit element, because whatever you multiply any element here with, you always get something different. So later, we will mostly be interested in commutative rings with 1. Can you just kind of check it? So let's look at at least one case of a non-commutative ring example. So we can look at, say, so that R is the real numbers. We look at, say, M2 times 2 of R, which is the set of all 2 times 2 matrices with coefficients with entries in R in the real numbers. So the elements look like A equal to A, B, C, D, where A, B, C, D are real numbers. And I claim this is a ring. So the addition in the ring is just the component-wise addition, as usual. So A, B, C, D plus A prime, B prime, C prime, D prime is, as usual, A plus A prime, B plus B prime, C plus C prime, D plus D prime. So you just add them as vectors. And the neutral element for the addition, obviously, is 0. So 0 element is the matrix where all entries are 0. And the multiplication in the ring, you take the matrix multiplication. Maybe I don't know multiplication equal to the matrix multiplication, like you learn in high school or in the first semester. So if I would do it for the same thing, you would have for multiplying the same things with each other, you get A times A prime plus B times C prime, A times B prime plus B times D prime. And then you have here C times A prime plus D times C prime and C times B prime plus D times D prime. So the usual multiplication. And as usual, this is actually a ring with 1. So M2 times 2R is a unit ring. And the unit element is the identity matrix with unit element, the standard identity matrix. OK. And maybe I can also come back to these integers modulo k. I want to use them. Also another example. So if k is a positive integer, I had introduced the set. So zk was supposed to be the integers modulo k. So this is just a set. It's just a set 0, 1, 2k minus 1, as we had before. We had defined the addition by saying that in this group, we have, for the moment I write the addition differently, n plus m. It's just we take the sum n plus m. And then we take the rest after division by k. And we can, in the same way, define also the multiplication, namely the product of n times m. It's just we take the product of these two numbers in the integers and we divide by k and take the rest. And you can check that this is, again, a ring, a commutative ring because the multiplication in the integers is commutative, obviously, ring with 1. So the 0 element is element 0. And the unit element is element 1. Anyway, this is quite standard. And I think this you might also have learned in high school. OK, or at least we had it for the addition. It works the same way for the multiplication. So we make some trivial remarks that some of the obvious rules that you have when you work with integers also hold in any ring. So just, for instance, in the integers you know if you multiply anything by 0, then you will get 0. And this also holds in any ring. Then if you multiply anything by minus something else, get minus something else. So minus a times b is equal to a times minus b is equal to minus a times b. And also say if you take this twice, you get this.  And now I'm above the line, but it's not. And a b in r. So if I assume that r is unitary, so if r is a ring with 1, then we have if you take minus 1 times a is the same as a times minus 1 is equal to minus a. So these are all things that you certainly have seen maybe even before you came to high school, but now we are talking about an arbitrary ring, not about the integers. So I just want to prove them. It's all kind of obviously trivial, but it's some exercise in playing with these axioms like we did for groups. So if I take a times 0, now 0 is a neutral element for addition. So that's the same as if I do it twice. I added 0 plus 0 is 0. By the distributive law, it's a times 0 plus a times 0. Now the addition is a group. So we can subtract a times 0 from it on both sides. So it follows that 0 is equal to a times 0. And obviously with the other one, you can imagine how to modify the proof. And for second statement, it's quite similar. So we want to show, for instance, that if we take minus a times b, that this is the additive inverse of a times b. So we have to see that if we add this to a plus b, we have to see we get 0. Now again, we can use the distributive law. So this is minus a plus a times b. And minus a plus a is 0. And so we find that this is the inverse of that. And the other one is similar. Now if you, the third one is just applying this twice. You do first do it here. This is minus a times minus b. And this is minus minus a times b. And minus minus is just a. And while the fourth one is actually essentially just a special case. So if I take minus 1 times a, this is according to what we said here, this is minus 1 times a. This is minus a. So this is not very difficult. So now we want to introduce a couple of further properties that rings sometimes have. So one nice property that the integers have is that it does not happen that you have two elements which are non-zero and you multiply them and get 0. And so a ring which has this property, say if it's a commutative ring, which has property is called an integral domain. So we can introduce this property. And we will later mostly be interested in integral domains. So definition, so as we assume now, we maybe just look at commutative rings. So let R be a commutative ring. So an element, say b, say a and R, and the element is not supposed to be the zero element, is called a zero divisor. Well, in some sense, if it is divisor of 0, so that if you can multiply it with another element to get 0. So if there exists an element b in R and this element should also be different from 0, such that a b is equal to 0. We know that this is something which cannot happen in the integers, for instance. And a ring which does not have zero divisors is called, so commutative ring with 1 without zero divisors is called an integral domain. Zero divisors is called an integral domain. So somehow it says it's very much like the integers. And as we know, it's obviously clear that z is an integral domain. So if we are in an integral domain, we can cancel factors from products, like we can in groups, I mean, trivially. So that means we have the cancellation property. So if we just have need that we have no zero divisor, but I say integral domain because I don't worry about other cases. So let R be an integral domain. So if we have elements, if we have a, b, c in R such that a, b is equal to ac, then such that then b is equal to c. So we can cancel common factors. Well, and this is quite obvious. So we assume that a, b is equal to ac. So we can bring this to the other side. So we have a, b minus ac is equal to zero. It's the same as a times b minus c. So now a is non-zero, and we have a product of two elements so that we get zero. As we are in an integral domain, one of the two elements must be zero, and a is non-zero, so b minus c must be zero. Yeah, and so I failed to make the assumption that a is different from zero. Such that a is different from zero, and then b is equal to c. B minus c is equal to zero, and thus b is equal to c. So let's see what the few rings that we have seen so far, which of them are integral domains in which are not. So we have seen that z is an integral domain. Then if we look at, say, z6, so integers, modulo 6, this is not an integral domain because if we take the product of two, now I write the usual multiplication. Two times three in this ring is equal to what you do if you take six and take the rest dividing by six of that, which is zero. So we find actually two non-zero elements whose product is zero. And on the other hand, so one could think that all these z n's are not integral domains, but so if p is a prime number, then we can take, so if I take any element, so if n is different from zero, so if p does not divide n and p does not divide m, then sp is a prime number, but also does not divide the product. So that means that if I have elements n and m in z mod p, so thus if n is different from zero, also m in z mod p in zp, then n times m is also different from zero in zp. So we find that zp is an integral domain. OK, so I had introduced these, so in a group, we have that every element has an inverse. In the additive group, obviously you have always a negative of any element because that's a group. But in the multiplication does not form a group, so we do not require that every element has an inverse. But those elements which do have an inverse, we call the units. So the units in R, so which is a ring with one, are elements with a multiplicative inverse. So that means, in other words, so an element A in R is called a unit if there exists an element B in R, such that A times B is equal to B times A is equal to 1. And so the set of units in R is denoted R star, and now the tiny. So it's easy to see in group theory that if an inverse exists, it is unique, and we denote the inverse then by B to the minus 1. So B will be unique, denoted A to the minus 1. You can check that it's unique. So for instance, as an example, what are the units in Z? So these are the elements which have an inverse for the multiplication. So this is only 1 and minus 1. And whatever if we take the rational numbers, then the inverse, the invertible rational numbers are precisely the rational numbers minus the element 0. Every rational number which is not 0 is invertible. So in these cases, it's easy to see that this set together with the multiplication forms a group. 1 times 1 is equal to 1. 1 times minus 1 is equal to minus 1. Minus 1 times minus 1 is 1. And this indeed is always the case, the units form a group under multiplication. Well, it's almost trivial, but still for some reason I call it a proposition. So let R be ringed with 1.  And this group will be called the multiplicative group of R.  We have to see what we have to check, proof. So we know that the multiplication is associative. So it's also associative if we restrict it to R star. By definition, every element in R star has an inverse. So first, we have the element 1 is in R star. So we have a neutral element. And for A in R star, we also have A to the minus 1 is in R star. So all the actions of a group are fulfilled, except possibly that the product of two elements lies in the group. So let A and B be in R star to see AB is in R star. Well, and that's also not so very difficult, because if we take AB times B to the minus 1, A to the minus 1, well, then this will be A times B, B to the minus 1 to A, A to the minus 1 is equal to 1. And the same way, B to the minus 1, A to the minus 1, AB is equal to 1. So we see that AB is a unit if A and B are units. So AB is a unit. And thus, we have seen that the units form a group. And as I said, this group is called the multiplicative group of R. So I just remind you of the notation that I introduced in the very beginning. So if A is an element in R and N is in Z, we can define N times A, which if N is bigger than 0, is A plus A plus A N times. And we can also define A to the N, which would be the multiplication. No, that's not. So this is if N is positive. So anyway, we can define this. So if N is bigger equal to 0, say bigger than 0, or A is a unit, then we can also define A to the N, which if N is bigger than 0, it's just A multiplied with itself N times. And otherwise, we have to take the inverse and then take it to the minus that power. So this we had introduced before. And we have the usual rules that I also mentioned the other time. So we have, for instance, that N plus M times A is equal to NA plus MA. And N times M times A is equal to N times M times A. And also the same for the powers A to the N times A to the M is equal to A to the N plus M. And A to the N to the power M is equal to A to the N times M. So all these statements are very easy to prove by induction. And I already mentioned them for groups before. OK, so now how much time? So now we want to come to somehow, maybe for us, the most important example offering, or in some sense of a construction of one ring from another, which is the polynomial ring. So if we are given a ring, we want to consider the ring of polynomials with coefficients in the first ring. So I mean, from high school or university, you know about polynomials. So you would say, for instance, in school, you have a polynomial is, say, f equal to, so f of x, you would say, is equal to sum i equals 0 to N, ai x to the i, where, say, ai is an integer, is a real number. And you would view this f as a function from r to r. And you view it as function f from r to r. So to sum element b, you send b to f of b, which is sum i equals 0 to N, ai b to the i. So this is certainly a quite useful viewpoint. But we actually want to see the polynomials more formally. For us, a polynomial would just be, in some sense, a formula. So just these symbols, this thing, is the polynomial. I don't care about the function. For us, a polynomial will be a formal expression. So the polynomial is fixed by saying what these numbers ai are. So let me give the definition, which is strictly speaking only 99% precise, but it's much simpler than that. So definition, let r be a ring. Don't need the one I expect. So a polynomial f, f with coefficients in r is the following expression. So f equal to, say, sum i equal 0 to sum number N, a0, x to the ai, x to the i, for sum n bigger equal to 0, and ai are elements in r. But it's not quite the truth, because if two polynomials only, if these numbers N happen to be different, but at the end, we just have some 0s, they still are the same polynomials. So let me write this down. So the two polynomials f and g, bj, x to the j are equal. And we will just write f is equal to g if, so we have these two numbers N and M. We can assume that one of them is bigger than the other. So assume maybe that M is bigger equal to N. So if, so assuming M is bigger equal to N, we first have that bj is equal to 0 for all j bigger than N. So the extra terms that we have here all have coefficient 0. And ai is equal to bj for 0 smaller equal to i, smaller equal to N. So two coefficients are equal. If two polynomials are equal, if these numbers here are equal, and some extra 0s don't count. So if this, in some sense, so we denote rx. So actually, polynomial f in the variable x with these coefficients. Denote rx, the set of polynomials in x with coefficients in r. So we can see, so the polynomial say a0 equal to, so a0 times x to the 0 is identified with the element a0 in r. So you could say we have a map from r to x, which sends a0 to a0 times x to 0. But anyway, with this, we can view r as a subset of our x. So with this, we have that r is contained in rx. The ring r consists just of those polynomials, which have only, where the only non-zero coefficient is a0. So these polynomials are called constant polynomials. So r in rx is the subset of constant polynomials. So I wanted to, in the beginning, I stressed that for us polynomials are not functions, but they are these formal expressions. They are just such expressions with this identification. And they are not just viewed as functions from r to r. So the polynomial equals sum i equals 0 to n ai x to the i in rx is not the same as the function, which sends an element b and r. So from r to r, which sends b to what one would call f of b, which is sum i equals 0 to n ai b to the i. For instance, one could look an extreme case. So for instance, if r is equal to z2, so r has only two elements. So the total number of functions from r to r is four, four functions from r to r. That's all. But there are infinitely many polynomials with coefficients in r. You can just put any coefficient, any set of finite many numbers gives you a polynomial, and they are all different as polynomials. But infinitely many, but there are infinitely many polynomials in rx. OK, still 10 minutes. So now, in a moment, I've just introduced them as a set. These polynomials now I have to define the ring structure, obviously. So we want the polynomials to form a ring. And so we have to define what the addition and the multiplication of polynomials is, finished. So we define a ring structure on rx. So we have to say how we want to add and to multiply polynomials. So if we have f sum i equals 1, 0 to n an, x to the n, and g i equal. So we can assume that this number is the same, because we can always add 0 times x to the i for the larger ones, because it's the same element. So for this, we can define the sum. So we define f plus g to be how you learn to add polynomials in school. Namely, this is sum i equals 0 to n a i plus b i x to the i. So you just add these coefficients. I should maybe say that a i will be called the coefficient of x to the i in f. And for the multiplication, it's a bit more complicated. You just write down the formula that you get if you do what you learn in school, how you multiply it out by using the distributive law. So this would be the sum over all k, say in this case from 0 to 2n. Take the sum over all numbers i and j such that i plus j is equal to k a i e j x to the k. So this looks a bit more complicated, but it's just what you're used to. Namely, here this means, in other words, we have that if I take a times x to the i times b times x to the j, this is defined to be a times b times x to the i plus j. And then you formally apply the distributive law to this sum. And then this will give you this formula. And with these definitions, one can check that we get a ring. So clearly, we have that the element 0 in R, which is the constant polynomial 0. So all the coefficients are 0. It's the neutral element for the addition. And we get, so you can check, is a ring. So if R is commutative, then also x is commutative. That's obvious if you look at the definition here. No, it's just switch them and get the other definition. And if R is a ring with 1, then Rx is also a ring with 1. And the unit element will be just the same. It is just the constant polynomial 1. So if you look at the definition here, if just one of them is 1, you just get back the original polynomial. If you say f is equal to 1, in this multiplication, you just will get back g. And we also see R is a subring of Rx. So if we look at the multiplication in Rx and restrict it to constant polynomials, it's just the multiplication in R. If you look at this definition, then all this Hocus Pocus Blue vanishes just the sum from k from 0 to 0. And if this is f is equal to a, g is equal to b, this is just a times b. So there's nothing going on. And so we also want to maybe use some kind of simplified notation. So if say we have 0 times x to the 0 plus 2 times x to the 1 plus 3 times x to the 2 plus 0 times x to the 3 plus x to the 4, 1 times this. So we would just write this, write only the terms which matter. So we write this as you would do in school as 2x plus 3x. x squared plus x to the 4. Just we don't need to keep the terms for 0. And we don't need to keep the 1. OK, now we're still two minutes. So maybe so the final, let me just state it. So finally, if the ring r is an integral domain, then also x will be an integral domain. And the units of rx will just be the units of r viewed as constant polynomials. So first I introduce the degree of a polynomial definition. Maybe I stopped there. Let f equal to sum i equals 0 to n ai x to the i view polynomial. And we can always do it in such a way that the highest for the highest for that the an is non-zero. Because if we have any further zeros, we can forget them. So with an different from 0, then the degree of f is, so it's denoted, the degree of f is equal to this number n. So if it's a coefficient, it's the highest power for which the coefficient is non-zero. And we call an the leading coefficient of f. So the coefficient of the highest power which is non-zero. And so I wanted to say, so remark, so assume r is an integral domain. And we take two non-zero elements in r. So two non-zero polynomials. So they are not equal for the constant polynomial 0. Then first, f times g will be non-zero. And in fact, the degree of f times g is equal to the sum of the degrees of f and g. And the second statement is that rx is an integral domain. OK, this is kind of trivial because we have just said if f and g are two non-zero elements, then the product is non-zero. So that means it's an integral domain. So this is just a reformulation of part of one. And the third statement is that if I take the units of rx, this is the same as the units of r. So that means a polynomial can be a unit for the multiplication only if it's a constant polynomial. So it has only terms of degree 0. And these are a unit. OK, so this is all very simple, and then I stop. So we can write f, so we are doing 1, can write f as sum i equals 0 to n ai x to the i with an different from 0. And g sum j equals 0 to m dj x to the j is bm different from 0. So that means the degree of f is equal to n, and the degree of g is equal to m. And so we had this formula that f times g was sum i equals 0 to n, say ci x to the i, so k, ck x to the k, where ck was equal to the sum i plus j is equal to k ai bj. Yeah, OK. Now, so the highest possible thing that occurs is n plus m. But if you look at the case n plus m, the only possibility that i plus j is equal to n plus m is that i is equal to n, and j is equal to m. And then we get therefore that c, n plus m, is equal by this formula to an times bm. So it follows, and this is non-zero because these were both non-zero, and this was an integral domain. So therefore, we find thus f times g is indeed different from 0, and the degree of f plus g is n plus m, which is equal to the degree of f plus the degree of g. And then finally, we can do this, how much more, OK, you can do this thing with the units. So if, say, a in r is a unit, then it will be unit in rx, because you can always just multiply with the inverse in r, and this will, if you multiply a polynomial, and you will get back the element 1. So there's no problem with that. We have to see that these are all the units. So let f be unit in rx. So it's actually like this. So then by definition, this means there exists an element g, the polynomial g, such that f times g is equal to the constant polynomial 1. So constant polynomial 1 has degree 0, and we have seen that the degrees add up. So the degree of f plus g, of f times g, which is the degree of the polynomial 1, and this is 0, is equal to the degree of f plus the degree of g. So it follows that both the degree of f and the degree of g is equal to 0. But a polynomial of degree 0 is just an element of r, and they are still inverse to each other, so f is a unit. So maybe that's enough for now. I'm sorry I went slightly over time, but sometimes also finished earlier. OK, we see each other next week after this holiday. Any question?


All right, welcome everybody to the March 16th hyperledger technical oversight committee call. For those of you who don't typically join us, but you're probably also aware we do have to abide by two things on this call. The first is the antitrust policy that is currently being displayed on the screen. So, basically, don't act in any way that's going to impact any of the applicable antitrust or competition laws that might exist. The second one is our code of conduct.  And we will all get along just fine. And then, yeah, I guess for the meeting today we have our typical announcements that definitely developer newsletter goes out each Friday. If you have anything that you would like to include in that newsletter, please do leave a link or comment at the link that is linked in the agenda for the upcoming newsletter. As far as quarterly reports, I believe the only one that's really outstanding for us to take a look at is the firefly one. I believe there are six to see numbers who have reviewed that at least as of yesterday. If you haven't had a chance to review that please do. We do also have one comment on that report that is outstanding. And based on our rules, we cannot merge that until that is either addressed or the comment is somehow removed. So we do need to take care of that firefly one. As far as the past year reports with hyper ledger grid, you may have seen there was a conversation on the discord channel, we're looking to potentially move that project to end of life. There is a issue that I have opened in the TOC repo the will probably give a give a moment for people to take a look at that review that it's copied the grid contributors I know right has opened up a number of issues in the different grid repos to allow for the grid contributors and contributors to reflect on that and see if there's any comments and we'll probably bring that up to the TOC for a vote next week if we haven't seen any comments to the contrary. So, so far Dan and ROU have commented on that particular issue with a thumbs up, but we'll be revisiting that again next week. The transact one as I'm still waiting on a list of maintainers from transact based on the conversation that I was having there with Sean to determine what its status will be. We may just do a very similar sort of thing with that and open up an issue and see if we can get some responses coming from the different containers from transact. As far as upcoming reports we do have the Ursa one that is for Q1. I know we just got the Q4 one a couple weeks ago, but Q1 is now up for review again so we'll look to see if we can get the Ursa community to report on their Q1 work. We also have Basu and Calliper that's coming up next week. Any questions on the reports as we stand right now? Okay, I'll take that as no. So for discussion items today we do have three items we have the brand update from then we screen to tell us about what's happening there. We have the maintainer guideline PR that we talked about a bit last week but we'll hopefully bring that up for discussion and potentially a decision there and then we have the task force discussion for the onboarding content. So with that I'm going to hand it to Ben to give us an update on the brand. Thank you Tracy. I'm just going to share my screen here if that's all right. Sounds good. Okay. Firstly thank you, a shout out to David Boswell and Tracy as well for bringing this to everyone's attention and working with me to help bring this to the community and roll out plan for the rebrand. This is something we've been working on over the last four months now. Why do we need to rebrand? It's the current brand is seven years old. The stretch has been stretched as far as it can and we've the teams decided it needs a strong refresh to make it more marketable for prospective members and to strip away the frills and excess design appeal to appeal more to developers. Some of you may or may not know this is what we've been up to, but we wanted to make sure that we bring it to the community in a timely manner that doesn't upset or surprise anyone. I've been working with the marketing committee on this as well who've been heavily involved with us and the team throughout various stages of the rebrand. And we've also presented it to the governing board thanks to Tracy as well who provided some really excellent feedback. So at this point, I'm happy to basically present it to the TOC and the plan moving forward will be to roll it out into the community and hopefully launch it alongside a new website. Most of you probably know our website is increasingly performing badly. The load times are terrible. It's pretty much falling over at this point. So we're upgrading to a new HubSpot website that will usually increase performance and the thinking is to launch that with the new brand in about two and a half months. Sorry, the rationalization behind the new brand is that we want to have it be more of a direct representation of the blockchain business community. Have the brand colors reflect more of our three top values trusted open and enterprise grade, and most importantly differentiate ourselves from all other members and the crypto community. The current icon, I think is an improvement on the current one which doesn't scale very well across all properties in terms of sizing. It now represents the trinity of nodes foundation members and community, and while still retaining the character and memorability of the current icon it's essentially exact almost exactly the same shape ankle and known style but visually stronger. And yeah, as I said, it's, it's way more scalable. So without further ado, this is the new logo brand mark icon color scheme as well in vertical. And this is how it will look across the new website. This is basically a kind of mock up to give you an idea of the look and feel. It learns a lot stronger. And again, these photos are just for mock up purposes, but we're going to use photos sparingly with layered graphics to create more depth, much simply UX UI. And again, we're working the website to bring it up to speed and basically the whole purpose is to bring high pleasure foundation brand into the future, and make it way more appealing for prospective members. And put it future forward. I'm working with the LF team as well to the design team and the website team to make sure the website is a lot stronger. As I said, high, much higher performing, and that UX and UI really spot on. We, for example, most users spend an average of just under two minutes in total on the website. So we want to make sure that it's extremely clear the information is very accessible. And we're going to, you know, really start stripping back a lot of the convoluted information that's currently on display so that user journeys are much more straightforward. And if you need to deep dive and find the access the information, the detailed information you're looking for that is a lot clearer to find as well. The plan is to launch hopefully mid June. As you can see here's the, the website design timeframe. We had the final revision of the brand delivered in March. We plan, as I said, we've shared it with the governing board, we've shared, we've worked closely with the marketing committee. Now we're sharing it with you guys. And the plan is to share it with project leaders next, and essentially roll it out to the community over the next month, so that in mid June there isn't a big shock and surprise. If there's any questions, or any feedback, more than happy to take it, please get in touch with me directly. Thanks, Tracy. All right, thanks Ben. Any, any comments or questions for, for Ben at this point. I've seen a couple of thumbs up Ben, just for your reference. Right. So, so far no questions, no comments. Oh, I guess one. Will this spill over and will this impact the per project logos, or do they, will they kind of fit in. Do we think. Yes, good question. We, I think we're going to do it. We're going to do the transition slowly first it's going to be the website and, and the launch off of 30 brand of essentially what you've seen here. We would like to bring the, the actual brand mark just the hyper ledger font in in line across across the community. But I think the plan is to roll that out slowly again, you know, in a timely fashion. We're not talking about rebranding icons. None of the project icons are going to change. We may look at updating the, the SIG icons for example at some point but yeah, we're the plan is to is to is to do it collectively and in a fashion that doesn't, you know, surprise or upset anyone. Right. Hi, can you guys hear me okay. Yeah, thanks. So, I guess one question I want to bring up is that I also see sometimes we have an overlap between other Linux foundation entities like, especially like I said to AP. Are we also thinking of delineating up working like we do, especially in the field of, you know, the eye, like, compared to what other organizations doing I think that's going to be helpful because otherwise a bunch of times as a, you know, there's quite a bit of confusion between just a exactly like, like, of course we have, you know, areas and so and, and, and they, but there's quite a bit of overlap between what other organizations doing so I think it may be helpful also to have some better delineation over there. Can you help clarify the delineation exactly in terms of project logos and branding or Well, not just in terms of the graphics on right like like what I'm saying is that and correct me if I'm wrong maybe this is like if this is not the right, you know, scope for that, but basically what I'm trying to say is that I guess one of the reasons we're doing rebranding here is to because when people come in and you especially want to appeal to the dwellers and and have, like, not not just basically make this like marketing but people can have a clear understanding of what hyperledger involvement can help them with, correct like like to prospective members and also to the developer community. Right now. In my own experience what I've seen is that, especially people are like, I think there's a bunch of like obviously the major hyperledger projects, whether that's fabric or other ones they or all these other ones, they have a very clear use like and very clear set of use cases. But when it comes to decentralized identity, I think there's a bit of an overlap, like and I've seen the same thing happening in the identity workgroup, where I believe I brought that up in one of the previous meetings today that it's not very clear as to, you know, what what is the desired outcome. And from the identity practice we've working on and hyperledger versus and to IP and they're both of course falling into the Linux foundation umbrella. Now of course W3C is a completely different thing the IF is different, but at least within the Linux foundation ecosystem. I, I'm hoping we can, like, like when we are, you know, having some like when we especially when we have the project information here. I guess it'd be helpful if you can clearly say, well, here's what hyperledger is doing here's what like and if you want to do XYZ then do IP is where you better, you know, collaborate over there. Sure, I think I think I hear what you're saying, maybe this will answer your question. Hopefully, I've been working with closely with David Boswell on this and he's been leading the charge in terms of updating the project page for example. Yeah, I don't think we've been doing a good job of clearly delineating and explaining projects and the overlap of projects. We are working on an entirely new project page and project matrix which really is helping to define and explain exactly what projects are what they do what they use for and how they overlap as well. So there is a new matrix in the works and yet the goal of the UX and UI website update over the course of the next month is to is to make everything a lot cleaner, a lot clearer. Yeah, as I said, we've only got a few minutes to to make sure we direct people to the right things and explain everything as clearly as quickly as possible. So yeah, how does does that hopefully answer your question a bit better? It does, Ben. Thank you. And I think like in that matrix, I think it'd be also helpful if you can say also somehow show what is the relation with the other, you know, links foundation projects or in general with the other open source projects like like W3C, like, you know, like W3C is basically of course setting standards, but like for example to IP is coming up with and like like of course we talk about open wallet foundation. So, like, like anybody who's newcomer in the di space, then they would know it's like, oh, if you're talking about walls, then you got to work with the open wallet foundation but if you just talking about the cartographic thing then you probably focus more on the other side of things. I see what you're saying. Yeah. Good point. Thanks, David. Thank you. Stephen. A much lighter topic. Greens. A number of the logos have greens. I noticed the use of green in this. That was that would be my only concern about the, the project logos would be either contrasting or, or need for alignment of the of the greens being used in the projects and the projects I'm involved with are both using that. So, there you go. Yeah, thanks. Yeah. It is, it is, it's a complex design task and yeah we're making, we're getting many iterations of the, of the web design and layout to make sure that. Yeah, we're clean and power fine. All the first design elements. Thanks. Hey, I just wanted to comment on Sandy's point. So I will say Sandy that at the LF level, we are working on something that people have internally called the digital trust initiative which, although that will probably change in terms of name. What it is doing will stay the same. And that is exactly what you suggested to have a place where we put all of the projects involved in digital trust, like, you know, obviously identity and some others in context. So we explained the relationship between all of them. And, you know, tell people where to go for different things that they're looking. So we know this like identity, you know, we know there are a lot of projects in the LF that there's some overlap and identity. And we're working on this at an LF level to make sure that, you know, people can find them all and they know where they need to go. Thank you. Morning. Great to great stuff then my, I've always wondered about the members in the, the visibility of the members that support this phenomenal foundation, and it seems they're buried in the about section I think on the current website. And I just wonder whether they should have a more prominent standing somewhere on the within the within the website, but other than that, phenomenal work. Thank you. Thanks appreciate it. Yes, totally agree. We're getting away on the current site, but again, we're redesigning membership page. Members are going to be front and center and the two clear journeys for new developers wanting to enter the ecosystem. Current developers, maintenance and contributors, able to returning visitors able to access things a lot quicker. And of course, yes, members really completely redesigning membership page. The homepage again will be much cleaner, focusing a lot more on the members. So yes, the we've got we've got those journeys in mind and the plan is to definitely put them more funds and center thanks. Thanks. All right, well thanks Ben for providing us the brand update. Again, if anybody has any additional questions or comments, please reach out directly to Ben. We'll now move on to the maintainer deadline PR. I think the only item that is really open on this at this point is this question of what is required in the maintainers guidelines as far as information about the maintainers themselves this particular comments. It's here. So I think previously we required that you had to have all of these fields. I think the way in which the PR is written right now is that it is recommended to have these fields instead of a must. So I think that's as far as I know the only item that's open. So what does required mean. So, and I'll give you an example. When we retroactive retroactively go to create these the way you do it is you find who's on the team. The teams associated with the repo to see who has extra GitHub permissions and the only information you've got is the name and the GitHub ID. So, when we create these. So that's all you have. That is the minimum and so that's why I put it that way is that there's not a way to get the other ones there other ones are nice to have, but that's all you can get. So that's, that's where I was coming from. Second point was Ryan mentioned the the need is based on the ability to contact the person and GitHub ID as far as I know is sufficient to contact the person so that that's the second. So it's actually both of those reasons that I put those two as required and the rest is optional but I'm open to change I'm just saying that's that's the rationale. So I'm puzzled by what Stephen just said, how do you contact a person with just the ID an act and a GitHub message. Or or you can open often find associated with it. Sure. Yeah. I don't know why we're contacting so I didn't have a comment on that but that was good. So first I wanted to thank you for working on this I think you know you deserve credit for putting this together but beside that. I was going to say this, you know, it stems the initial information being requested the stems from the fact that it's not often easy to figure out how to contact people. I mean you just said yeah you can create an issue I guess and put a hat or something like this. But other than that, it's not easy to contact people and this is the aspect we wanted to have is to be able to reach out to people. So, unfortunately, I mean we haven't discussions before but how much of the identity of the person needs to be known.   And so that was primarily the, and then the company company affiliation on that obviously has more to do with, you know, diversity requirements we have. In terms of the rest I think it had to do with this notion of, you know, the more information we can get on how to contact people the better off we are. Some of it would be historical though, because, you know, like an FID and child ID I think maybe we don't need all of that. Yeah, I think auto definitely chat ID is historical for sure. I think that, you know, we have today the ability to at, you know, a group of maintainers in discord. So, you know, maybe that's not as required. I do see, right, as we're dealing with say transact, the at transact maintainers isn't working to contact those folks in discord. So, you know, we'll, we'll issue in GitHub. Hit that I don't know, you know, we've only had one grid maintainer actually comment so far on that issue, right regarding the end of life. So is that really enough I don't know. It should be right because it should hit the emails if they're watching it but if they've stopped watching it for some reason because they're not actively involved anymore than maybe that doesn't actually gets them. So I think, you know, the biggest thing truly is how do we, how do we get in touch with people when we need to get in touch with people.  You know, those are the sorts of things that I think about when it when it comes to contacting Steven you asked like what would we contact people. That's really I think that the majority of what we would be looking for is to make sure that we can truly touch these people when we need to touch these people. And then yeah company affiliation truly was for the diversity requirement that we have for moving projects to graduate.  But if, you know, for at least new maintainers right if this is the information that is required and you use a full request to add a role to the table. It's, it kind of, you know, it's easy to capture that information at that time. Yes, absolutely. And that's, and so I'm just kind of hung up on the on the on the wording to use that's all. I'm really not sure what wording so if anyone can suggest the wording I'm happy to take it. I would like to see the LF ID and chat ID dropped. And I would like to see scope. Included in the required so that we can, you know, make sure we understand I think I've done a better job now of explaining what scope is. I hope that was that was the intention and I think it, it makes more sense in that it's mostly tied to what you can have privileges are on the repository although it can. It can be, you know, can left open the option to vary from, you know, unrelated to GitHub permissions. And I would note I did add from last week's discussion the point about pointing maintainers file for a given repository to another maintainers file. So that's in there as well now. But if someone can help with the wording on this little bit. And as I say, I think I think we're saying LF ID and chat ID come out. Oh, hearts going to stand up. Yeah, can I make a point in favor of the LF ID and the chat ID. It's going to be hard. Well, you can always make it. Yeah, of course. So, the LF ID is going to be very useful for analytics, right, like if we want to do LF analytics. You know, that that kind of thing is useful, particularly for correlating across projects like if someone's working in hyperledger and they're working in something else. They may not be using the same GitHub ID. Oh, interesting. If we can use the same LFI if they use the same LF ID, then we can potentially correlate across projects. And if there ever becomes a time where like, you know, we have to lock things down more substantially than LF IDs will be, you know, much more useful. I think we've been having a big issue. Well, a bigger issue. We've had a number of meetings zoom bombed across the LF.  And so, you know, I think that's good. And I also think it's important to link like chat IDs. I know this is sort of done informally right now but you know rye gives privileges in chat to maintainers. And he sort of, you know, does this by hand right now. And having this, you know, done officially would make rise life much easier in this regard I think a little rye can can speak out on this himself. I agree. I appreciate it. Yeah, maintainers do have special privileges in discord. And like, if it's not official, then it becomes a big pain. I think those two should be included. Feel free to do what you want, though. I have a suggestion. I mean, you know, would it be okay to say, okay, you can ask for all of this but at least two must be provided. And, you know, so that way we have at least one additional way of contacting people and then it's, if you don't really have those. I think, you know, in response to the point you've just made with rye doing by you could say well look, if you don't provide you have ID you won't get certain privileges. Okay. I think actually this is enough that I can put in the should be completed as much as possible. And here's the rationale for why, why the different pieces of data are needed how about I do that. I'll change it to discord ID. Let's just assume we're going to stick with discord for a while. Yeah, and Steve and I, and to our nose comments, I think, you know, the previous or the existing guidelines, right before this PR say there must be at least one reliable mechanism to contact the maintain or either chat idea. Yeah. So, you know, I think, I think what you're recommending is good. And then, are there other comments besides this one that we should address. What did people think. I was surprised there was very few comments on the list of example list of duties of maintainers. So I hope I got those down I did get a couple of places for comments. And I'm here for feedback on that. And as after last week's I added to it, the, the need it was it's in the sample maintainers. The security requirements. So it's that list right at the bottom of the screen there. Yeah, right there. So I'll stop after last week's discussion review responded act on any reported security vulnerabilities. And I see the word reported in there twice which is bad. So I'll take one of those out. But anyway, that's a list that I found to be useful. And for what I, you know, what I've seen and what I think the duties of a maintainer are. But I think this is actually the section of why I started down this path of, of adjusting this was to get this part right. And again, people can, this is a sample one, and people can adjust it to maintainers can adjust that based on their, their, their project. But I think this is the really important part. I think you must have done a good job of capturing. Okay, I'm just worried people didn't look at it enough. That's the other option. Steve, I just wonder why I'm sitting here. Just because I don't know how this works today. The one a sort of scan, like, is this some, like, like, is this some sort of like, like in our bank for example we won the tenable scan for the vulnerability so like how frequently is that one and is there like a specific team who does that on a routine basis. Sorry, what was that again. I mean, for the vulnerability scan so how do how do the maintenance actually know what will include is out there. They are there any scans which are run by like a central team. So whether the files out there and whether it exists. No, no, I'm sorry if I'm not clear of my body is not clear what I'm saying is that, like, how do we want the vulnerability scans like is like, like, hold on how the vulnerabilities get sorry. So vulnerability scans come or things come from dependent bought alerts. That's one which is showing here. And then the other is security reports on repository so security reports that's the securities tab there. Okay, the dependent bought results are there so those are the automated ones from essentially from GitHub, and then as well. Individuals can report security vulnerabilities through this or through hacker one. And when those are reported those need to be paid attention to and and that was the discussion from last week and that's why I put that as the highest priorities. So these matter, and we shouldn't have this many dependent ability alerts. I assume this is not a good example. Not a happy example I know of one in our world that's not a happy one that we're trying to get rid of the repository just because of it. I didn't. I was going through this earlier and that one just jumped out at me. Yeah, I will point out that the talk members of the talk have read access on these repos specifically so that they can see the dependent bought alerts. Okay, and that's across all of hyper ledger. Okay. And then I'm assuming that if we have to if we cannot resolve and remediate something on a time basis, then we have some sort of an exception process for that. So, like, like the example that just popped out here so if we for any reason let's say there's a product dependency or there's a timeline dependency we cannot resolve this say by the end of March. We follow like like me probably clear an issue and then put that on the on some sort of a chart up there. So, so there is an issue that those security like CBEs. So, you know, critical, critical vulnerability reports, those are issues and those get created as such. For example, when we had one on India couple on Indie last year, they got added to a discord this session we created a special channel for it and invited all the people to collaborate on it but the whole thing is to try to make sure we stay on top of these. It's up to the project to do whatever the project is going to do and it's up to, you know, all the maintainers on a repository. What I wanted to call out was I'm finding as new maintainers come on they don't really realize that Oh, I could, I could. So part of my duty is to make sure I'm looking at the vendor bots results often they know that, but they don't realize that oh you could get a, an actual person reporting something. And, and when that happens you have to deal with it. And it's important and so it needs to be top of your list. Coding, I've got coding pretty far down that list. So third from the bottom. There's lots of things that are, you know, important to do that maintainers should be doing ahead of simply rating code and putting it in. Hopefully the other things don't take a whole lot of time so that they that third from the bottom gets lots of attention but this is the order, the ordering matters I think that was the intention. Anyway, thanks for letting me highlight that. So I think the next steps and Stephen you're going to do another commit to this. Yeah, some changes. The TOC members please let's review it on GitHub. Provide any additional comments that you might have approved if you think it's ready to go. And then hopefully we can get this one closed out. And even for taking us through that. Bobby, you're up next. Thank you Tracy I'm going to share my screen real quick. So basically I'm here to talk about where we are with the onboarding task force. So there's like a few new things going on. One is that we are applying for mentee to help us with the sections. We are working on, let me just switch this over to the GitHub, we're working on the four spots where people come into the community, and the four different types of, I'm going to call them learners who need information. So the mentorship program, what we want to do is we want to have the mentee help us develop these and kind of make sure we're all on the same page. I did put out a survey, which is in the discord channel for the onboarding task force as well as the GitHub repository. So just to find out what time zone and what of the specific pamphlets or guidelines that you'd like to work on, and any comments you might have so that when we get that together I'm going to sit down with David, and we will figure out exactly what we need to do to set up a time and so that we can get this really rolling and hopefully get accepted into the mentorship program and have someone to help us do this. So again, I did post it in the discord, but my discord is being funny. So that's it. Does anybody have any questions? Bobby obviously expected to have one minute to talk about. I didn't think I'd have a lot of time, especially with the maintainer conversation. But again, we're just having trouble because people are all over trying to figure out a convenient time because the meeting on the Monday afternoon isn't really working out for a lot of people so we really want to get this started so if anybody is interested in in helping out with any of these landing points or these guides, please fill out the survey so that you can be included in the conversation. Thank you, Bobby. So I guess that was our agenda. We went through it quicker than I thought we would. So any, any other topics that anybody would like to bring up for anything that we should discuss before we close out. I have one question about the maintainers thing. Will there be. Will this be retroactive will we be expecting projects to come into compliance. And by we of course I mean all of you. I think we should promote it for sure. I think it would be a, you know, based on my, you know, limited but interactions with maintainers on projects I think there's not enough understanding of what the roles are and how you become one and like oh man I'm you know my, my PRs aren't getting reviewed fast enough well. Maybe that's a maintainers job but be maybe it's time you became a maintainer or, or, you know, when things like that so that's the conversation I'd like to trigger in the, in the projects and repository so happy to see that. Okay, so one of the things I've been doing over the last week or so is when people file a request to have someone add and get a, I've been saying find update maintainers and then we'll do it. Yeah, absolutely.  Yeah, let's get going. Cool. All right, any other items for discussion today. All right, I will take that as please give me 10 minutes before my meeting, please. So we will post this meeting, we will talk again next week. Thank you everybody for joining. Thank you. Thanks.