That's okay, well, it's officially 6.30, so I'd like to call our December 12th, 2022, Parks and Recreation Advisory Board meeting to order. Please follow up on this. Aaron Angel? Yeah. Scott Coleman? Yeah. Jeff Ellenbogan? Yeah. Manojgan Warren? Yes. Paige Lewis? Yeah. Nicholas Novello? Yeah. Dan Olson? Yeah. And Tim Waters, our council liaison, is now present. Let's move to approval of the previous, oh, approval of the agenda first. And I'd like to request that we move the new business, but for all of the business, and otherwise, are there any other changes? If not, that's it. Take a motion to present the agenda as amended. Go for it. Thanks. You owe me a coke. I think that we amend the agenda for new business to take the place of old business and approve. Great. Can I get a second? Second. All those in favor? All right. Okay. Okay. Now let's go to the previous month's notice. Does anyone have any changes? Scott? Yeah, I don't think any of our speakers work from one line. Yeah. We had a, well, we did have a long monitor, but she didn't ask me. And one more. Just that. Yeah. Yeah. And almost, and then everybody else was walking up. Okay. Okay. Okay. One small change on number seven. The first question. Scott, I think asked if Steve was going to post a notice or something about the place was that the way it got captured. Didn't really make sense. I am planning to not about the place. There will be a public notification process before we take soils away from the site. Right. Right. I just think we need to clarify the question. So did you ask Scott? Yeah, I asked if there was going to be a public. Yeah. And he said, yes. Not that Steve noticed that the place. All right. All right. All the pieces were there just on the right order. I'm going to be providing a notice once we get the schedule for the contractor will notify. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Anything else? I'm going to get a motion to approve the minutes. To approve the minutes. Second. Second. All in favor. Do we have any public? They would like to be heard. See none. But before we jump into. New business. I have a couple of things. One. This is the last meeting from a note. So I just wanted to thank you both. For your service. It's been a fun to have you appreciate your commitment. And maybe we could just have a quick round of applause. The other one is just a quick reminder that we. As part of our bylaws do operate by Robert's rules of order. And I know we're not the most formal board, but I think we've gotten a little bit away from that. So one of the things. I'm going to ask is that we remember to just raise your hand. If you want to make a comment or ask a question. It really helps me to be able to kind of manage the meeting overall. And make sure everyone has a chance. To talk. So just a final request for meeting. Okay. New business. I don't know if it's. I think. Is it. Yeah. So yes, we chatted a couple of times now with the work that the city has been doing with the different tribal nations and indigenous peoples from the part range area. There's definitely interested here that more felt that the work that I can talk a little bit more about is the work we're really doing in IGA that is still going to legal. So I won't share the whole thing. My concerns and general concepts of that IGA and really how we're going to do. Our attempt is to do a better job of working with those tribal nations, those indigenous peoples on them as stakeholders, helping to be part of decision making processes, including them as they were neighbors as process even though may not physically here this time because the private's been moved to another state or they no longer have the direct accesses area, but historically they were part of this front range area. So how we include that. So I'll talk a little bit more about that at the open space sort of level, but Cameron is here this evening and she's talking to talk a little bit more about some of the things that we've been doing as a city at large. I've been involved down the periphery of those, but Carmen really we're very fortunate and one month have Carmen because they were working with City of Boulder, Boulder County. Carmen is always there and always doing a great job of representing the city and some of the work she's doing. So you want Carmen doing that higher level? Yeah. Thank you. Carmen is a community of neighborhood resources. So did anybody do their homework on the links that we sent to you? And if you saw the documentary, you saw that this has been a process of creating trusted relationships that don't happen overnight. So when it comes to our open space, a couple of things as David mentioned, Boulder County City of Boulder City of Longmont is working together to try and find consistency in how we work with tribes and also not to over tax because we have a tendency to ask people to volunteer like yourselves and to do a lot of work without being mindful of the relationship and what is the long-term purpose. So that's really what the IGA is going to be is that the three of us can work consistently across Boulder County, open to other communities who are smaller City of Longmont, sorry, City of Lafayette, Town of Erie. They have some interest in joining and a lot of times this way they don't have to start the relationship. We've established a relationship already. We are the first city in the world to become a sister city with a sovereign tribal nation. There's been nobody else that has done that. There's a lot of reasons, good reasons. And we actually were told not to do it, but it was very interesting this whole process. So over the last four or five years we've been building relationships. We've been talking about open space. I can tell you that when I meet with elders and they talk about how they used to come through this area and go up to Estes and gather medicine and where that medicine lies. And it's interesting because it's some of the trails that we take in their life and I can't tell you where that medicine is. I can tell you where some of the medicine is. But it's very interesting that that is not a story that is told about our open space. David has been amazing at supporting us to really be inclusive of that history of the native people that were here and have been displaced. Before the Chicago Colony there was a lot of other people. So with the IGA they're working with 13 federally recognized tribes. You should also consider that we have local indigenous people that have lived here for a very long time. So that was it. David did I miss anything? No, I think that's, I'd like to maybe go to some questions with some of that higher level stuff. If you have questions about the videos, if you watch them or some of the work they've come into doing, I'd like to give you a chance to talk a little bit more about the open space piece. Yeah. Okay. Any questions? Yeah. So the Intergovernmental Agreement is just between Longmont City of Boulder, County of Boulder about how you all will work together in engaging with the Tribal Nations. Exactly. Exactly. From that kind of partnership, we'll then be able to create, if you think of tribes that could identify from Sandstone, all the way up to Estes Park, there's several jurisdictions in there. And so it will create that consistency in relationship that we are nurturing. And what kind of activities will that contain? Luckily at the beginning, and David, tell me if I'm wrong, it's really identification of their trails, what existed, whether it was gathering the medicine or gathering the food or animals. And where did they come in the summer? Did they come in the fall? That narrative. I know I had a conversation with the folks at Sandstone about telling the story of Sand Creek Massacre. There's one version right now, and that version was written by John Kaufman. So there should be a second version. So correcting that history will be part of that. Where it could go later is really dependent on the relationships and the different government entities and how they would work on that. And I think this is going to be a evolutionary process. It's not going to quite happen all at once because there's pieces in there that City of Boulder, much for the long been entities as far as their collaboration and their work with the tribes. I think Longmont was one of the work we have done is for the long been different aspects. I think City of Boulder probably more on the formal governmental circuits. I think Longmont more on the relationship and how we're building that. I will preface this with having personal keys in this story too that I can make that commitment to these conversations that having worked with permanent tribes that I just really think that Longmont has an obligation to do a better job of telling the story of our open space properties. So engaging the tribes and when we talk about the naming of a property, it feels like nothing was evenly acknowledged before there was a ranch, a tall ranch, a white ranch. It's as though a ranch. It's just this idea that before there was a ranch there was a better job of talking about that story and bringing together this is going to be a hard part too because it takes time because there are conflicting stories of how things have happened. I don't know personally that we have the ability to change that narrative immediately, but I think to take time and dialogue in relation to building a trust to do a better job of telling that story and helping it come up. We can do a lot of things that really tell very factual pieces about who's here and what they did and why this land was important and what lives in those conversations. That to me is a piece that in an open space background and do this for a long time I think one feels very comfortable. It feels like the right thing to do is the direction that I think City Council has given us and why I tell that narrative is pretty easy to tell to most anyone. As you read this IGA, there'll be things that talk about co-management. There'll be things that talk about return of lands and those are the conversations that I think can be hard for people to have and it's going to be a community response to that and I think for me helping to hear that message is going to be working with our community and how you have those conversations where people are going to listen and talk about this and I think as the more we have those conversations the closer we get to something that kind of helps heal this whole process but again making those tribes, those indigenous people's communities this area feel like they're part of that conversation no matter where they reside right now. It's a progress and I think different entities and different groups are going to get there at different points and I think the ideal of the IGA is that we all recognize that we're working in the same direction and trying to remove some of the bureaucracy with our entities so that we're not having to have group scope to one entity to ask for something to another one and then I get like Carmen said volunteering the time and using your time in this process that's been repeated kind of broken promises from these entities that hopefully we can achieve that. Yes, Anu. Two cities has been identified as sister cities. One is Japan one is Northern Colorado there's a cultural exchange part of it. Yes, so we have three sister cities. We have Sudan, Guzman and Mexico and Chino-Japan and then we also have the Northern Urepa hope and we've done student exchanges as well last month in November we had firefighters from Sudan, Guzman that came down and they did training with our firefighters and then the city of Longan donated a fire truck to them so it was surprising with that. We've had youth exchange from each community with the Northern Urepa hope because the issues around boarding schools and the trust we've handled the way that we bring in the students in a different way. The first time all ten of them stayed in my house so and then the second time we had them stay at the youth center so we make adjustments that are culturally appropriate and sister cities is a nonprofit it's funded, some of its funding comes from city council to shepherd these relationships if you know about sister cities I didn't know this until I accidentally got involved it was started by Dwight Eisenhower as a way to repair relationships with countries that we had been in conflict with and so when the mayor and the time mayor vaguely said you know anything about the tribes that were here and I said yes and he said told me about sister cities and I said well we've been at war with tribes communities for about 500 years so maybe it would be okay to start that relationship and he's actually the one that really started having that conversation so we do cultural exchanges this last time we showed the documentary and then we had a panel discussion we brought in folks from Northern Rappahoe the Saturday before Northern Rappahoe folks came down and they made fried bread in Indian Dhaka they set up a TV they showed kids and their families at the youth center how to set up a TV and how a traditional buffalo hide TV would be made so those are the kinds of things also that we think of with open space could we begin to bring people down to do education there was a up in Estes Park this summer they held a Rappahoe language summit where they brought elders and youth together because their language is disappearing like in many states their languages will be fading away if we don't do something so those are opportunities that also could be hosted or brought up by our open space partners do we know yet what our goals are for the identification of the resources the historical news resources like medicine and animals and you know pathways is it to restore access is it is it to just mark honor I think those would be part of the conversations we really have there's definitely been some past in the past we've talked about those but I think one of the things we've really heard about is our rules of rights do not allow for collecting the one of the pieces is the idea of kind of the tribes come back and collect traditional medicinal herbs or plastic they use for their rituals and their medicine and is there a way that we can do that and kind of plant a piece between different to these palaces yes during these times in these windows or in certain circumstances again going at deep price and getting to take both ways but again try to reduce some of the barriers for some of those ask bringing kids down and having them on a land maybe in places that aren't open to the public that through some sort of primitive process say these are the new times that these tribes can use these areas in certain ways we haven't historically looked at those lands being used at least I think it would be a part of that discussion I think the other thing to consider is you have a northern and southern as well as a northern Cheyenne and southern Cheyenne the government divided them and placed them on different reservations but the southern folks travel up to the north for their ceremonies their Sundance in I believe it's in July and other ceremonies that they have and so wouldn't it be great to be able to stop home throughout Boulder County whether that was to do education gather or to even camp out we haven't quite gotten to what that could look like those potential are all future conversations we're thinking about very similar things in my work where we have protective limits and thinking about access and coming and potential transfer obviously it's a big conversation so I think it's having a trust to help a conversation to start with some of those pieces and we think they're easy wins those are the places that I get in I think in regards to IGs and stuff you'll be seeing for me in this work signage and ideas of ways that we just do a better job is start talking about our properties in some other way than just the whole city and the ranch aspect of these properties I also will add that we've had Ernest House with Keystone consultants and he was in charge of the state Indian Commission as well as I think he's either Southern New or Mountain New and so he's been helping us along with this conversation so that we have that representation and I just found out that at Rocky Mountain National Park their supervising ranger is a Northern Erepo so I'm going to try and reach out to him and see if we can get him engaged in this effort and that's really the other piece of this too is as you talk about all these different tribes and these groups that I've used this area are we talking to the right people and are we in our little vacuum even with everything the government brings to this to be your credit group and people have this conversation what we need to do to help repair this and make sure that we are working with the tribes, those individuals to make sure that we're trying to do these three months as well It's a very humbling effort Any other questions? Jeff did you have a question? This is a thinking both Well thank you so much and welcome to be here sharing this and hopefully we can keep it in future agenda as appropriate Great thank you Carmen Carmen I'm a Carmen that's not your jacket Kayla do you want to jump up here? Do you need to sit down? I can move out of the way Whatever works Do you need to be here? I wouldn't mind Is that too complicated? Where are we going? Can I sit here? Are you sure? Is that on the old ride or something? On the chair Yeah While they're doing that just real quick I'm sure over here has met Taylor in the past Hi yeah I'm Taylor I'm the chair coordinator She's been doing a phenomenal job If you're called We started this position Danielle We really started Rebuilding the volunteer program She was a part-time in that position I think she lays a really good foundation of getting some systems in place and really did a great job of building the foundation Taylor came in and actually brought her skill set, her connection She'll be talking about where she came from and all the connections she does have She will be able to build that foundation just things taken off of her going in Every time someone says we have a problem We don't have funds We'll do it volunteers and Taylor will take care of it And then Documents Volunteer program Annual impact reports There we go I guess so Perfect And actually she started here I'm not sure how far along she got this But that's one of the things I get staff to do Sometimes those numbers are coming in until the end of the year So this is quite a little bit of a rush for you doing this I appreciate you pulling these together No it's actually a good deadline for me I'm sure we'll do that So I'm Taylor I know I introduced myself about a year ago for my last volunteer impact report I was relatively new then But yeah, some background I right out of college started doing volunteer coordination stuff with Wildlands Restoration Volunteers I have a degree in Natural Resource Management from CU So I work with Wildlands Restoration Volunteers which is we'll get into it a little bit A local non-profit The biggest in the state in the region for materials and restoration So I was their volunteer manager for two years Then I left and did Wildlands Firefighting for a couple years Came back and did more volunteer management Restoration coordination with Wildlands Restoration Volunteers again And then I spent the last year and a half before I started here I was their volunteer services field leader So I was doing all of the field stuff which was interesting because it was the start of COVID time So it turned into an unusual job But I've been here since July 2021 So a year and a half almost So So these are similar It starts with similar slides to last year I have not changed the program vision or program goals So I'll just run through these really quickly Connecting our community with our natural resources by protecting natural resources respecting our natural environment furthering our community identity providing experiential opportunities educating a new generation of stewards and promoting a sustainable and resilient long life today and in the future I've changed none of this This is the master plan for the program and I see no need to update this I think they're great Same with program goals preserving and enhancing our perks and natural resources providing connections providing passive low impact recreation compatible with resource protection goals and embrace public engagement This is a neat picture I think in September I did a native seed collection at Rathopolis Reservoir Lots of happy faces So This year we wrapped up our big GoCo grant This was a grant we did with Wildlands Restoration Volunteers Same organization I used to work at As I mentioned It's a great profit for exactly the kind of thing that my program does they do restoration work and habitat work and forestry work and all sorts of good stuff and it happened to be a long month which is really fortunate for us The grant was through GoCo so great outdoors Colorado Lottery funds basically that get directed to a good relief grant So it was our grant 2021-2022 It's about 219 k and in total we did 43 projects and trainings through that grant with WRD A major part of working with Wildlands Restoration Volunteers They have been around since 1999 They've been either in Boulder or Longmont that entire time so they have a really deep well of volunteers, they're really well established they have thousands of volunteers and they run like 250 projects a year or something wild like that so they're a really good resource for us to tap into as far as getting new faces and new people on board with what we're doing But that grant's over now so we'll get into what that's going to look like next year and going forward but we have a lot of money for the volunteers that we're going to be missing next year So this is a picture from a plant watering project at McIntosh Lake sometime this summer I can't quite remember So be close up with me Event types So a lot of this is stuff we've been doing for years so some science stuff So we've done, we did some macroinvertebrate construction also some species monitoring that kind of thing fence construction and deconstruction in a variety of places landscape beds mulching projects So this is primarily what Parks uses the volunteer program for is mulching landscape fence because it is something that takes staff potentially weeks to cover a park and a good volunteer group can knock it out Prairie dog barrier we just did one of those this year but little barrier construction fever tree painting more landscape bed renewal noxious weed eradication restoration plantings and maintenance seed cleaning and seed collection then we'll use those seeds in future restoration projects shrub and tree plantings trash cleanups, trail building seeding projects and plantings This is a trail project at Bonsie we do a lot of work up there this year Other program we do educational classes kickoff events and sign ups trainings and the volunteer appreciation event at the end of the year This is citizen science phenology while training so this is a new program we had this year where we put together a, it's called a phenology trail at Rogers Grove and we located a few different species plant species and we had a group of volunteers go back regularly week after week and take phenology data or like seasonal data for each of those plants and tell us when there was bud burst and when leaves fell off things like that and then they submit their data and it goes into a big national database that trends throughout the country and tens of thousands of volunteers contribute to that nationwide effort so it's cool data to have nationwide and it's also great data for our open space or ecosystem management staff to have it tells us kind of exactly what's going on right here in town now on the right we have a community bird walk these are some educational events we did this year I think we did five or six when we just go out for an hour and a half in the morning it's a cool perk for volunteers we get our wildlife staff to come out and we go to different open space locations each time and we teach them how to bird we see what we see we loan out scopes and we loan out binoculars and it's a it's a neat opportunity people they filled every single time so we go to do more of that next year ongoing programs so these are rather than like single day events long time events these are the programs we have that we run on more of a shift basis so people come week after week or month after month to contribute to these programs rose gardeners breeding bird monitors raptor monitors the adaptive part cleanup green up people on my beautiful program that's those are all sort of part of basically a trash cleanup effort trail ambassadors parking trail renewal photographers and citizen science which is that analogy one the asterisks are for trail ambassadors and citizen science because those are those were new this year so we added those programs because the opportunity prevented itself in different ways and so we ran sort of small pilot programs for each of those this year this is a Lisa she's at one of our parks tanks at a Roosevelt she works at the rose garden she runs the shape of the rose garden so this is a mulching event in the spring she was helping stage mulch as we were getting down and that's actually one really great thing we did this year we sort of figured out how to work I figured out how to work with staff park staff, open space staff we built better relationships and they sort of learned how to better work with volunteers and how to help me run volunteer events so that's something we made a lot of progress with this year is just getting better organized, getting everyone on staff on the same page for long years alright, this is the interesting stuff impact metrics so here's what we did this year or some of what we did this year a little over 3,000 linear feet of trail maintained 675 linear feet of trail or rerouted trail 330 linear feet of closed trail 225 cubic yards of mulch in landscape ads it's hard to visualize that it's a lot maybe like a dozen dump trucks or something, it's a lot of mulch 1,350 gallons of trash removed, I think that's a conservative figure it's hard to sort of measure gallons of trash but something around there rose garden 18 ongoing volunteers 260 volunteer hours both of those numbers are a little bit up from last year but I don't really see them changing, we're taking good care of the rose garden we don't need 50 volunteers there ecological restoration 730 plugs and trees tanned in 405 feet of fencing built 400 feet of fencing removed 4300 gallons of water fed to native shrubs and trees 200 acres of invasive species removed 298 acres of habitat benefited 7 species of seed collected for future restoration and volunteer surveys 99% satisfied or very satisfied I had one unsatisfied and it was an educational program run by an external party and frankly it was unsatisfying so it was a fair it was a fair feedback um this is from a prairie dog area event that these guys targeted this year well like monitoring breeding bird survey this is a year round program so this is just a year to date stats that look a little bit different by the time we have the end of the year but not too much um sorry that first bullet point is a little bit unnecessary but we did 38 site visits 154 volunteers 154 volunteer hours and 4 properties monitored um rector monitoring that's a much bigger effort that goes throughout the summer and it's a bigger group so we did 304 site visits 16 volunteers 164 volunteer hours we monitored 6 rector species uh monitored 28 nests and worked on 12 open spaces nature areas and other and density limits 98% success rate for nests oh and this is a neat picture we have one rector monitor we have a couple that take really beautiful pictures but this guy in particular takes incredible pictures which is really cool try one master pilot program so this is again one of our new programs um we had some volunteers request this program so we gave it a try um 55 site visits 6 volunteer let me explain this for everyone I wrote about it um yeah new program pilot version so it's small we put it small so that we could learn some lessons without hopefully having too much of an impact in either direction um so we did a training with myself and with Bryce he's the lead ranger how the union we taught them how to have positive welcoming helpful interactions with members of the public and then we sent them to parks and greenways and we sent them, we stocked them with backpacks that had like doggy bags leashes, spare leashes white repair kits, band-aids spare water bottles trail maps just kind of helpful things and they collected visitor data like how many dogs they saw how many little violations they saw, how many bicyclists they saw, what what parks they were using and not using um and they reported maintenance issues that they came across in parks as well which is really helpful because staff are limited they can't have eyes everywhere so having some extra eyes in our parks and greenways is really helpful um we have this feedback as we were meeting tomorrow I wish we had it before this so I can tell you what our trail ambassadors thought of the program hopefully they enjoyed it um but that will sort of their feedback will sort of guide what we do next year whether we want to keep it small or expand or if they hated it only you know maybe we cut the program entirely um we'll see but they did they had a big impact as far as I'm concerned so those six volunteers contacted 186 people in total um you can see most of it was visitor hospitality so just welcoming people talking to people asking what they do with their parks how they're using the parks and then 20 of them were visitor assistants um so you know band-aids or helping fix a bike tire or whatever uh five other I don't know what those are um 43 violations observed and in our report they detailed exactly what those violations were so we can see at any given park you know if there's a pattern we're seeing a lot of people or a lot of dogs off leach and walk into the hero area that can potentially guide us to put a sign up in that location um that kind of thing uh 37 maintenance concerns reporting um which then went to Kirk staff so that we could take a look uh 21 locations visited throughout the city so that's uh that's just for our trail ambassador program I will keep you guys in the loop on feedback from volunteers to see how they liked it what changes they might have for next season the other new one uh I described a little bit citizen scientists with Penelogy off out at Rogers Grove some species that they monitored for Penelogy data um and that's a year-round program so that's not just 3 or 4 months we want winter data as well so 42 site visits 5 volunteers maybe 6 volunteer hours 6 plants and 5 animals regularly monitored um and yeah that's that's happening right now so we are going to do a winter feedback session at some point we're going to wait a lot for the holidays um here we have folks who are well we have 2 of those volunteers have COVID right now and so that would get you to all of this before we before we met in person um oh and this is this is a picture from well these are both pictures from trail ambassadors so this is one of the contacts that one of ours have we have a really big fish I don't actually know what that was but it was just going to ask um so yeah this is this is the big the big slide so uh this shows our numbers over the past few years 2020 is on there it's obviously a little bit of an outlier that was like prime COVID time and also you know a part time volunteer coordinator so things look a little bit different but um really I'm using 2021 as our baseline um and you can see we had some big increases from 2021 so we went from 44 volunteer of us to 70 volunteer of us which is a 59% increase uh from 708 volunteers to a little over a thousand for a 49% increase uh about the same number of community partners 3,400 18 service hours to 4,640 645 which is what 36% increase and a volunteer time increased 42% so we had some really good numbers this year um I'll get into that a little bit on the next slide um but or I guess in a few slides but really I think with these numbers they're awesome there are I think what the uh sort of carrying capacity of our program is right now um we were able to accomplish all the goals that we had set out for in the spring and then we sort of moved the goal post and we were able to accomplish almost all um our project goals once we moved those goal posts so we got a lot of work done um I think my understanding is that parks and open space natural resource staff are really happy with what the volunteer program is able to do this year um however this is this is sort of we hit our max this is I think right now with the resources we have and other resources in this case really I mean one staff member that's about as much as I can do um so uh these are just some more pictures I don't need to explain every one of them but there's some cool it's in the defense we built at our Dickens Farm Nature area I'm going to try to this area has been totally trampled so we'll try to restore it um invasive species removal it was at a seed collection the water was really flowing so we got a cool picture um another seed collection some more doctors um fever tree painting this is rose garden uh the little trimming we can cut back the roses some trail work stuff uh water not at nothing hush a few pictures from some of our planting projects at nothing hush me um got a tree program here happy volunteers check-in process some trash collection with a very cute family um and there are a lot more cool pictures where I came from another thousand pictures just um lessons learned 2022 so one July and August it's in this way for five years and it's time to sort of acknowledge that it's more than just a one time thing they're too hot for most outdoor events people do not want to be outside when it's 95 degrees it and these days it is consistently 95 degrees out um I sort of planned for this here and I did sort of a light load of projects um and even those were really hard to recruit for so next year I'm going to plan for it even more um and really just do indoor stuff educational stuff um because people really do not want to volunteer their time to do outdoor labor and it's super hot and if we end up with a cool July and August we'll plug in some some more projects but something to plan for next year I went over this a little bit we hate current program curating capacity for events and those ongoing opportunities that's in my opinion um and at this time we don't have program resources to expansion further that means there's just me and without goco funding that that grant um is complete uh at this time we don't have funding to do more events next year than what we've been able to do um and in fact we don't have funding to do all of the events that we did this year so and I'll get into this on the next page but one of the goals for next year is going to be to fund some more funding um recruitment uh one lesson one for me program promotion is a lot more successful than asking for volunteer help so uh I've been working with comms on this we're putting together cool comms plan for next year just like getting folks excited about the stuff we're doing putting together videos and interviews with volunteers cool before and after pictures that kind of thing has proven to be a lot more successful like just posting saying hey we need help with this project um so that's something we'll be doing a little bit more next year um and hopefully we'll be more visible um in that way as well uh successful new interagency volunteer coordinator collaboration effort kind of a mouthful um basically I worked with uh an old colleague of mine at city of boulder um open space and mountain parks we put together a group of volunteer coordinators from a number of local uh agencies so we've got several folks from boulder county we've got open space and mountain parks so I had boulder we've got boulder parks and rec and the city of bluesville myself and we get together quarterly and we're able to sort of pass volunteers like if I have a project that I have volunteers that I can't find a project for I'll send them over to them um or like for example we have a lot of restoration work to do in the coming years at button rock and we do not have enough land to connect or to collect enough native seed to do that work at button rock so we'll be working as I select phew I can't breathe in that thing um so we'll be uh working with boulder county and city of boulder doing some seed collections on their properties um to gather enough seed to do that restoration work um so that's been a cool new thing that we're doing um we are hitting high project and volunteer numbers um which means that in some cases in my opinion program development capacity building community building some of that stuff suffers because I'm in the field I was averaging three days a week in the field every week um which means I didn't have enough time in my opinion for really solid recruitment work um really solid uh like reaching out try to do capacity building stuff volunteer appreciation stuff responding to volunteers I tried to respond within a day I wasn't able to do that because I was in the field so much so some of those sort of behind the scenes pieces that I think are really important to make making a program feel feel like it's really really well organized and well done and community is really solid I wasn't able to do all of those pieces um but we hit somewhere good numbers so trying to find I think you know in every program there's a balance between um any number of things I think next year I'd like to bring the balance back a little bit from doing as many projects as possible and bring it back towards building community and building some more capacity into the program so I'd like to move that back a little bit um we are still gathering volunteer feedback from the new programs as I mentioned so I don't have a ton of info there 2023 and beyond so current staff resources volunteer program cannot support expanded programs or any increasing projects uh we're looking into a possible season employee in 2023 has not been approved by city council yet but I have my fingers crossed that would be huge for the program it would mean that ideally with the right person in my room could they could do some of the and I could be behind the scenes doing a little bit more recruitment and again the capacity building stuff so give us space to do everything I want to for the program um oh and find funding because that's that's going to be a significant piece because go-co is complete so we need additional funding in 2023 um greater focus on community building and program capacity building gone over that um potential expansion of chairman bastard programs and gardener programs um so right now we run the rose gardener program um we have two native pollinator demo gardens coming in one at rogers grow one at the visitor center at sandstone and I'd like to run native garden programs in the same way we run our rose garden program um we also have a greenhouse that is currently being built out back or maybe is practically done we're getting there um and we'll have volunteers help maintain uh some of our plants in the greenhouse as well um so those are some new ongoing things that are coming up and then this is sort of insider information kind of um for nature experience is uh there in boulder and they do it's a non-profit group and they do a lot of programming with you and there's a there's something called native kids not yet and they're coming up with uh native kids one month uh in the coming year or two and I've been uh the person who's going to be starting that up is an old colleague of mine and we're we're hoping to get a consistent partnership with youth program um and the work we did here so that's pretty cool uh because I would love to engage more youth um and especially if it's a consistent group uh of folks that come back week after week I think that would be a pretty cool opportunity for us and for them and I think that's it yeah thank you and if you have questions thanks of course yeah any questions board members Karen um who's the person who's your friend that gave you this long one uh new employee there um Rachel Brett oh well Rachel Brett has been yes she's not new okay uh new to uncle Warren not new in okay it's written for Rachel for the last yeah Rachel's been a WRP for five years you said a seasonal employee but not July and August what is the season for this sort of thing oh so yeah our volunteer season is it starts late March depending on the snow and all that I think stands through through October sometimes in November a little bit without that spot in the middle yeah that choke in the middle I guess I didn't know if it was only spring or only fall any questions do you mind if I add a little bit to that nice job and I just wanted to hit on those points and one was that tough position that um we do have some funds we're looking at Coomberry because I think um if you're looking to get more time out of the field to get that support where she can work on those grants and work on dollars to kind of love each other because it's better to use it for time so we go ahead and push that those down the seasons it's time for they can start accumulating numbers they can do some of these number crunching and work on stuff so I don't have a problem with the idea that they just work for them to do up there they do a lot of coordination with these projects with the parks and open space staff and what it really takes to be able to do it so it's not just go do a fever project it's a lot of kind of corporate work for the piece that I was surprised to be asked on the next slide your wildlife monitors I know the volunteers are working on a lot of work is there opportunities for kids to partner with these individuals yeah I think so as far as there's only so many nests in the city and we have them currently all covered with volunteers and we try to give folks who have volunteered with us a few years past doing the raptor monitor and first go at those nests and for the most part most people come back however I do think there's an opportunity for shadowing or for educational events I think that's probably one of the greatest opportunities is shadowing or working directly with our wildlife staff and do some educational stuff in the field teaching kids how to monitor nests and we can even we can always double up on nests so if we do have a youth group and take over three nests even if we have volunteers who are also monitoring those nests there's no reason for an educational maybe we can't draw an educational component where you also monitor those nests I was just thinking about our future volunteers I was going to ask that same thing because I'd love to do something with that with nests is this completely available data? it is not yet but it will be it'll be on our website we'll be handing it over to Constine next week and we'll figure out where we'll post it but it will be soon Karen? are you monitoring on private land as well? I'm just thinking the next door neighbors have the giant red tail hawk nest but basically the whole neighborhood is monitoring already my understanding is yes if we can monitor from a same place a place that's far enough away from the nest but close enough that we can see what's going on in it with the scope or binoculars and I believe the wildlife staff I think they connect with those they really try to land you stuff they're required to do your natural resource and wildlife surveys a lot of times they look at the site they're on and we know sometimes just beyond that property lander's nest we don't go trespassing on people's private property because those nests are very visible a lot of times we can kind of ground through things just by staying on city properties right away and getting ideas having to go on to a private property so we don't go on a private property monitor per se but we do have the opportunity to do that the last thing I'd like to talk about this program is the fact that we try to go to seed collection and restoration work this is a full circle sort of piece it is really hard to proceed in these projects to find the right native seed varieties plant plugs and stuff like that from growers in areas where we're doing restoration work to have the ability to have people collecting the seeds growing out the seeds and then planting the seeds in our projects is a wonderful opportunity for us to create a full circle use of our volunteers and our volunteer resources which goes back to the last point how can you get the question are these field good projects are really really at value and it is worth it I would say the how long have you done plugs full of mulch that you bring to staff are always the end of your saying we just couldn't get to it and the stuff that really we is on people's work project it wouldn't probably get done and it definitely benefits those beds the shrub water conservation plans by having mulch out there so this is all from Prager Offensive Projects that not only engage community but is work to see what needs to be done thank you great thanks congratulations great year thanks any other questions are you ready to move alright thanks for coming thank you guys okay our next agenda item is to get an update on the recreation library culture funding initiative so I think Jeff's going to give us an update on the recent conversation at city council and then hopefully you all saw there were great questions for you all to consider in the packet and I would like to make sure we go around and give everyone a chance to answer those questions after John Fitz's update so it's a pretty important opportunity for us to form feedback and so Jeff thank you so on November 29th city manager presented to council a list of projects that could be included in a library recreation and culture tax in November of next year did everybody get a chance to see the number side I won't take too much time going over that because I think the three questions are most important but he presented $244,700 thousand dollars worth of projects specifically that's hard to say that's a big number for recreation and parks that included renovation of Centennial pool completion of direct creek community park Montgomery farms construction a new recreation center union master plan implementation and some updating of the existing recreation center and then in your packet it also talks about operating dollars and what it would cost each year to operate that he proposed to them a combination of ways to fund the projects that being both with property tax and with sales tax namely that the property tax would fund the capital side of it or the construction and the sales tax would provide the ongoing operation for the facilities conceptual council did not make any decisions their guidance was to have staff start to go out to the public and get input on what the public think should be included in the tax that would be asked so any questions on kind of where we're at with the project and again that's real quick but really want to make sure time for the three questions to do your input again I just want to make sure I understand the projects, this is all a cart it's not like all pulled together we believe all a cart the only ones that might be combined is the parks and reparations because we have some there's a standard within the state of those projects being together but it's our belief that each question would be asked individually so museum, parks where performing arts and my word that makes sense but I think the intent maybe to do outreach and try to build public support for the package and so you know get like the parks and rock community and the museum community and the library community all together because we don't want to get into a position where I'm not going to vote for the museum if I don't get a new rec center and vice versa kind of thing so a unified front I think is very important you remind me what did we have on the ballot, what was the number on the ballot three years ago for Kahua Nights in particular because 64 million for the rec center seemed like a big number to me I think it was 45 64 million and that's based on yes it is but the cost of no I get it I'm just making sure I was grounded correctly I think I'm about to reshape exactly what you all just said but I feel like in the summer when we heard this pitch originally wasn't the idea that it was going to be a one-packed deal and we were going to try to get people to vote on one thing opposed to the Alucard idea was it going to change? well ideally that's how we're going to do it we are working with legal staff from the state that helps give guidance and the initial guidance is that you're not allowed to group the projects that they would have to be loaded on individually which was the same thing that happened in 2018 when we went to an election that had a question about golf had a question about the Civic Center and a question about the fire department and initially we wanted to bunch those together but it wasn't allowed but it was allowed in 2000 and we did the flex center museum and senior center together yeah 99 99 that was together yeah so I guess I'm trying to clear but if we imagine it's going to say something like ballot initiative 19A is $64 million for the rec center and then it's going to just be a laundry list and people are going to check the extra bill on every project I believe so that's fine I just think my brain imagined we were doing the opposite from the last time I wonder because usually I'm not an expert in ballot legal language like if they have something if they're connected so you might have like the revamp of Centennial Pool and the new rec center and the update of the old rec center like there might be a package of recreation facilities there would be one piece and then like a library that would be one piece and then museum so it wouldn't be like Centennial and the rec center yeah I guess now it's based on whatever community is interested in I don't know but there's a part about the mill levy going up from like I think you have numbers 15 to 30 that number won't be able to be stated that way if it's actually based on each question so in the counts of communication it did share how much mill levy or sales tax would need to go up for each item so that has been calculated and so you now staff has direction to begin planning for public outreach around this package for like can you plan and begin implementing for how much direction do you have not a lot I think we as a committee need to get back together again to plan but one of the things that you and I and David had talked about is starting to get feedback on the public process and how we do that outreach because the clock's really ticking and by August council will need to determine whether they're going to put this on the ballot or not so we need to do everything in our power to start the process so that we can get moving we've decided to plan but that's the latest that they can put something on the ballot so what we had hoped when we sort of planned for the discussion for this meeting is that this would be an opportunity for all of us to share thoughts on if there are particular amenities related to the rec center recreation facilities that you really feel should be included in the community scoping and then if there's any particular requests or guidance around how the outreach is conducted they wanted to be able to get thinking and also it could be important to the extent that it can be early in the planning so if there's no other background questions maybe we could just go to the first question which is what amenities should be considered to be included in a new recreation center I'm happy to just go down the line Jeff do you want to start and then we'll just go to me an indoor and an outdoor pool in the pool area I think we've already said something that is oldish I would definitely say indoor and outdoor pool the structure is very lacking if you don't have a car you can't literally there's something that you can get to and hopefully a good one anything in indoor or outdoor I'm sorry? skateboarding should yes be outdoor well there is indoor sure that would be great I'm just not trying to imagine great what are you going to say? we're just getting a little opinions the same isn't great in my indoor city I agree on swimming but I would also I'm not sure what does staff have in mind by picking 64 million dollars that already that destroys this conversation I totally won't know but I mean we could name 53 things and it's 64 billion dollars right I mean somehow you had some model of a recreation center in Thornton that we're matching or in where you know that kind of thing so I would say I mean a gym or pool we could duplicate our current rec center which I think would be a waste for example I don't think we need another kid pool but I would need numbers to say oh it's vastly subscribe but I hear people you see in times call oh there's not enough gym space we had a guy here last week who was complaining or last month who complained that the volleyball folks there wasn't enough space in the gym and there's not enough space for swimming laps versus having a masters versus having swim lessons so it's hard to judge my wish list is huge but I think we should be guided more by demand outside of this what they're going to do is present options and engage demand so you should share what you think are the most important options to be that by the public I think a lap pool and an ice rink but we tried that but I still think those two things we don't have an ice rink and we need more lap pool especially if Centennial is going to go away and that seemed to be part of the deal here was that Centennial was going away so what do we need a lap pool this is just a question what the school district built in the pool I don't know you're supposed to tell me you're the staff member who has all those numbers that's what the public is going to tell us see you then we're saying you need to ask the public about a lap pool did the public have access to silver beach pool? nope the district changed its mind a little bit all it does is take the district swim teams out of the lanes with the public queue it's helpful but Centennial is there a plan for when the quail if the quail rec center go updated to update the children part of the pool I think it's falling to the truth at this point isn't it we're not going to add any capacity as far as square footage but what we'd like to do is update the slide area the kiddie play area in there that again wouldn't add capacity but it would add a new feature that would trauma people that would be more fun for the kids well back to my original point we got a lot of positive feedback from folks about an ice rink and a pool in particular a lot of folks want a 50 meter pool but realistically that can't happen we already went down that road and failed so I would say that's silly to build a humongous pool but an ice rink I think would be a big boom to a lot of folks but that's a huge no matter price wise we all know that so tricky yeah I'm going to repeat a lot of the same things since Taylor comes offline obviously take up back capacity but even there we're already we have more demand than the past we already have so lanes I think on the poolside or ability to do lessons I think is a big part a lot of the other stuff that's there in the Kermit Center repeat I think there's just an overall you know whether it's court space or gym space or whatever that's why we need the Kermit Center whether each one of us uses it or not I'm not the thinkable player but someone's going to yell and scream and we've heard it a million times that if the private market which it doesn't seem to be money for because I personally did two market studies now for companies to have some of this not court, not basketball court pickleball facility indoor indoor somebody was telling us that no one just opened that it's indoor indoor has has one but for the most part the ones that are opening are people who can't rent their facilities and so those property owners are going to basically white label their building with their courts and then they run with it so the one that's in the rest of these studies like that that is losing money because there's just not enough density of people it's 60,000 square feet there's a lot of pickleball so if somebody came in to split it or something you needed 20,000 25,000 square foot space it would be great but it is it's a market of people who are price conscious and as soon as it's nice outside it will play for free it's a tough market to beat but right now Longmont's group which is over a thousand people now they are screaming every time the weather hits 40 degrees or it rains or snows they are all cursing at the city that we don't yeah exactly but to me I pulled them a bunch of times like what would you pay for a private place and basically comes back with not enough and so that's why there isn't that's why there aren't more private spots it has to be a private and that we see is losing money left and right and tennis players in the same bunch so not to take it on the paper but that's the sort of thing you don't make money on skateparks either so it's those type of things that the city has to provide because the market can't provide the other side on pool Sunset is chaos obviously during the middle of summer and Sunset might pull somewhere else in the city it's super fantastic but the only question overall we can't quite get to is where how does this happen if we place the rec center somewhere would it affect development of one or two of these other places that are on this list well Harold he said dry creek he said dry creek that was that's his spot so it's dry creek plus 64 million dollars is it dry creek is supposed to be expanded to a second phase that we were talking about the numbers with dry creek are incorrect is there such a number for one part we as a part of our next meeting need to talk about the numbers how they were further developed and what we present okay that's a piece to talk about Harold's desire to have eight parks done in five years with some work this deep and those all kind of play a little bit with each other too so we have some questions about dry creek and my government farms on there my government farms on all of this because if it ended up in the rec center there we definitely would be then trying to coordinate the building of that park so we definitely have some clarification as to how to use the pencil sharpening those numbers too Aaron I'm not echoing what a few people said outdoor pool and indoor pool indoor outdoor pool had one as a kid that I thought was the coolest thing that you could swim outdoors like you would swim into the outdoor part and you'd swim out like you'd be snowing and you'd swim out like in Missouri it was the coolest thing yes for ideas giving you ideas not just staying conventional on here I want bus access I want bus and bike access really big because I don't want it to be a parking lot and I don't want us to be using our art just land for parking as much and I'm not sure what our numbers are in climbing but everybody I know in south of here just the climbing chains are just so packed south of here like Lafayette Louisville Boulder just so packed and more climbing facilities especially as we give more young adults moving in not sure exactly what's the offer the amenities are going to be offered in the museum library sphere but if the museum doesn't get their kitchen we need kitchen space people want to do cooking classes there are no places to do cooking classes and in this area at all we need maker spaces it's great British Bake Off I'll be a judge thanks I just wanted to get these and multi-generational crafting areas would be good crochet groups different people come in there's a lot of group meeting space it's not there youth meeting space every place has I'm not disparaging this meeting space but we can't see each other and it's not in a circle where people can meet and have conversations and things like that the library has these bookshelves if you're trying to meet with four people and I think that's a big thing and those could be the new library they could be the new museum but we have to coordinate with those because it's all recreation and I think those are all going to be and then back to the pool some of you mentioned it but as a former 20-year swim teacher designated a lesson space for swimming that was designed by instructors because you need certain depths and you need kids to be able to hop off stuff and things like that in a decent temperature for kids it really makes them learn exponentially better when the temperature would go up your kids put their faces in the water and then they swim those are that's a long list sorry can I ask you a question related to what she does at is there a maker space in any of the city of Loma infrastructure or the art district does that exist anywhere I don't know but that would be something that the library would consider I think the museum that's going to be the interesting part of this once you get the immunity feedback on the amenities which amenities go where the museum is further ahead than all of us because they do have a design that's what the expansion would look like but the rec center and the branch library and is the branch library going to be part of the rec center or part of the redamph of some time it would be part of the new rec center yeah this question was good for me to answer because currently I'm not a frequent user of the current rec center it's not my goji spot but thinking through this who is the recreation center most started before who has the biggest impact by having this and I really think that it comes down to teenagers and young adults having a safe place for teenagers to go after school to hang out as putting myself in the shoes of a teenager coming into a rec center after school that they want to have there and it's probably a lot of boring stuff it's probably like football and ping pong tables just places to hang out and talk with other teenagers so it's kind of a reminder and then maybe also some programming too I don't know team sports of sorts that are more intermural like easy access so it's kind of a reminder thanks people have said I do think we need to scope the full range from recreational left indoor outdoor you know I think we really need to get a sense of what is needed I also think we need to continue to scope the ice sheet like a recreational indoor ice sheet some sort till we have one we need to keep asking about opportunities and I do think there are range I've seen many different iterations of the way those things are handled anywhere from like old sort of military facilities that are converted to really high end facilities that have like restaurants and then some of the whole range I'm intrigued by the idea of like dedicated sports courts it's kind of interesting when we heard from the gentleman at the meeting last time about the conflicts and I've just been working out at the rec center more lately as it's gotten colder and definitely there's always lots of people on the basketball courts you know the volleyball so I wonder if people would be interested in having dedicated like this is where the basketball courts are these are volleyball courts these are I think it's worth putting into and then I had similar questions about community meeting space whether that was something people wanted to be able to have various iterations and I also wondered about whether I never see anyone on a climbing wall at the rec center but I know there's a big climbing community of us few, lives that you don't see yeah how CCT's better and there is a climbing collective or whatever so I don't know what the demand is but I think it's the best they're building a giant well so maybe I don't need to do but I don't know but I can't I mean seriously I can't go for one visit I'm not in that bracket yeah you can't afford it you're for non-profit and you have a family you can't have both you can't have both and go okay so I think a good list does it resonate with what you were thinking? yes okay so real quick this was on kind of on the record the piece I did here that I had not heard in a long time was the certified kitchen and it's something that I spent quite 10 years from the county so the county has some efforts in that there were some conflicts between the private sector and that too so I can talk to Jeff a little bit about why I'm already looking at that because it really was a desire for the community but also our local farmers they would love to have places where they could extend their seasons by canning and that kind of stuff too so there's definitely up there I don't know if you can tie to this but I can share that information with Jeff that may be a good thing to dive into Jeff to be the update to the county fairgrounds and they could very well they're concessionary, they're actually I need to chase these things like that I would also put in another a plug for the just looking at weather skateboarding like there's another facility could be co-located with something because I do sandstone so far away and so hard to access and everything else is really small the bus act is not the one behind the rec center and the rec center is not usable I go to the tennis court and there's always two kids there every time could be it's a little it's a little bleak even by skateboarder standards yeah I mean my husband who's king of bleak, it's his life he's like it hurts my soul yeah and there'll be people at sandstone and then he's snowing it's the one spot you can buy no matter what time it is it's just hard to especially for younger kids and we tried to give us access there but RQD won't operate outside they won't work on that for decades and they won't send the bus out that way yeah I mean it would be fun if we start training big have a snow train I mean they have a Denver in Denver there's snow train and it's connected to the skate park and just when it snows I mean when it snows people try to beat the snow plows on the pads they'll be trying to be to get their skis out but people try to make sunset hill in this train park it might be kind of fun a little bit okay so the next question is on public outreach so suggestions for public outreach in terms of like who should be focused on public outreach what kind of public outreach tools so there's like surveys focus groups in person questions where so any thoughts you have about how public outreach should be conducted feels like the second and third question go together do you really keep them apart still I mean well the third one yeah the third one seemed really similar I'm just going to say my one answer which is to me I feel like we get a lot of I feel like the newspaper is a great leader that people do engage so I would recommend some sort of I am just all related advertisement just as a way to like whatever we choose whether it's a public meeting or whatever seems like there's a lot of engagement through that which is my one idea do you guys still remember surveys I don't have a really good idea because last time we had a couple of big meetings at the senior center and it's all folks who are already gung-ho and so I mean I guess I'm doing more advertise I'm trying to get it passed before or design it so it will pass and so we need more outreach early I mean choosing a location is going to turn some people off and the fact that we have to put these down is that I advise list is going to be a problem when we passed in 99 passed because everybody could see a net benefit and now it's I think it feels to me even not knowing anything it's going to be too easy to say yeah no yet yes no yes no yes no I'll use these three things but not those that it's going to be the lawyers coming back are going to be a tricky problem for us and so you know I don't know how you say vote for all I mean which is what we're going to want to say you know as I mean we as a board part board want to do the parks thing or the recreation thing but we can't just hang the other guys out to dry and so this is really going to be a problem I don't know and I don't know how to get around it the whole if you say like that we must keep these separate that's really hard and I understand the staff and especially the world it wasn't me making this no no no I get it and I understand that Harold is constrained or feels constrained by this but this feels like it needs to be a huge effort to try to weedle that somehow otherwise we're in trouble right from the beginning we're going to have the same problem we did three years ago where people are going to say in a macroscopic way oh competitive I see that works I'm done and people are going to say that much for a library that I never walk in no way or for a rec center or for whatever and I want this to I mean it just feels so for me that means public outreach to Harold to try to be getting them together or everything really early because we're doing this as a package it looks like it's a bunch of different things but it's a package you know and I don't know how we say that yeah I don't know how we say that but then again that's just my opinion but that's based on the 20 some year ago version and the three year ago version you know what we've got right and wrong I don't know if I really answered the question sorry no it's good I agree with you I don't have to do that it's got to do it yeah I have the same but I kind of look at the other one the second one about this when you have a complex question versus status quo status quo is always going to win because you have disparate people all fighting for those other different pieces it's destined to lose and you get majority on 12 different packages so it has to be like it does have to be like a recreation sort of package or the overall package or I don't think anything will pass because when you're choosing you start breaking it down really quickly and I think that's a communication nightmare to try to manage this thing on the list something else and whatever and then nobody ends up winning because 30% are going to vote for nothing and so that is a huge amount and I think it's our best member probably that we've ever passed 70% so 30% voted for nothing we're out for bad so you have to hammer it out of the park to get one of these things to pass to beat the nothings so we have a communication sort of issue that we're going to get to this level of detail breaking things out I think in terms of outreach I think what was great was the museum event I think it was Parks and Open Space or transportation and stuff too all together and people there were presentations and mixed presentations and other dotboards and things that we've done there before but going to existing events so whether they're private events they're open to the public whatever luck in is putting on it's not just like rhythm on the river so it's going to be a diverse map of events we have tons of events all over the city that's where people are out doing things already don't just do a city event and have them come to a city event go out and find people in special groups right there I think a lot of times too when there's placement for any of these things I think there should be specific interest in outreach to those neighborhoods or those communities that are most impacted it's great that Drag Creek is now going to get all the stuff I think won it for 20 years but there's going to be a ton of traffic so how are the neighborhoods going to deal with traffic and how do we get the bus to get over there and how do we get roads there not killing people but yeah that sort of stuff there's a long list of communications that's great I love to be sure okay I think you look in my eyes no way you should I think people are going to go for this so it's the make them awesomeer and you go with enthusiasm not with pens and I think that this could really go and yeah it's a package but you go with a brainstorm mindset you go with a listening open and enthusiastic mindset and I think I think this is going to go but really as you said the diverse group we seem to hit 45 to 65 year old white women really well in this city and white men but we just don't seem to get the voice from any place else look around at us you know what I mean like it's and so a sink of the mile day of the dead we under a thing have it be around like invite kids and older people like make things an unconventional structure if it doesn't look like just stand here at this table or back on this clipboard you get different viewpoints and enthusiasm and ideas when you mix things up like that and you may have a big sandbox where people are placing things in and then people are talking to people around I don't know I didn't think about it for that long but I think those are the ways to go school festivals I think would be a thing to do like schools all have their festivals and their meetings there's the Latino parents there's Latino parents meetings with the school district I think that is a very important group that doesn't get consulted enough because they underutilize our facilities quite a bit because they have safety concerns that are different maybe than other parents so I'm thinking this is going to be awesome you just have people make long long awesome or not the quality of life tax just how are you going to make long long awesome or if people feel like they have agency and they have voice and that their ideas can come to something then they're going to get behind it and say oh yeah my stuff isn't here but it's at the library it's going to be so cool right I'll have it up I don't want to quit my job but I might have to there's going to be a transition between on the ballot when some outside entities do need to like manage the I feel like this needs to happen before the ballot but I think this is the key is we've got to figure out how do we use the outreach to start building excitement so that it's not once it's on the ballot that people start hearing about it and what about student groups I mean why about high school student groups like let's have them look sorry this is minus two but yeah but us going to talk to the kids is kids talking to kids too if you could get those in the schools make long line awesome or kids groups going on talking about it it'd be great you've got the kids to pitch some of the elements like a design class long line or whatever then you've got the family and the whole school excited that there's a league with them I mean I wish we had a youth council not yet have a youth council but we do we do these children and youth and families or if they use center I would not know but we've got a youth council hi hi I had two thoughts when I was thinking about this earlier in the last week I guess so one was following through my original thinking about who would actually be the beneficiary the best the most important beneficiary and so similar kind of themes of like PDA, school board other events at schools in the area really trying to think of that those young families avoid the other group of individuals that we don't really hear from as much as one and the other thing that bugs my mind which is so similar but it's like the world has changed a lot with COVID and we're getting more online and maybe we should embrace that and so we should be blasting more I think the notion made us next door but maybe it's not how we necessarily communicate and facilitate these conversations but we can at least get attention and bring people into the discussion from platforms just next door and like the long month Twitter account so as much as I guess maybe like a young person version of next door I don't know what that is actually not sure either but I guess I think it's TikTok but I don't think they have TikTok I don't know I'll go for that okay well so similar I really would like to see solicit feedback at all the related facilities so they're actually getting feedback from the people that are using those like have solicit feedback from people that are at something at the rec center and at the exhibit and you know those kinds of things and say like what are your ideas what do you need more and what do you need less um I want to make sure if we do surveys that they're really robust kind of statistically relevant surveys and not just like oh fine I love this really conducting real surveys I like the idea of focus groups and also I don't know what you were talking about the meeting at the museum but it sounded like something like that could be fun like some kind of community interactive where people can learn about the different ideas and provide feedback and interact with each other and I definitely wanted to make a concerted effort to engage more diverse communities and I like the idea of going to different events so it's one way but also just thinking about locations where you could potentially interact maybe grocery stores I don't know that would be positive or negative um and then I also I am interested in the idea of us as public hosting some kind of community feedback session on the recreation components just to solicit feedback from the recreation community at lunch I don't know if we can do that or if that would work out but I think it's interesting okay I went early I thought of more ideas as we were talking in another place that I think seems to have a lot of people coming through is the farm of my fifth oh yeah I was thinking like there's kind of two phases in my world one is the what should go with the building like that like what are we going to pitch then there's also that hey we decided what we're going to pitch but now we need to get people to vote for and at that phase I feel like there should be maybe city staff maybe parks and rec board people I won't be on it anymore so you guys should do this but like with setup with architectural models and like fun activities like that things were months before this thing happened so everyone knows what it is not like you said you're reading the ballot with this staff can't work on it until until once it's on the ballot we're out yeah they can't talk about it now when you're soliciting feedback oh yes it can't be a favor yeah just the facts that we can share can't PRA do that yes that there was different opinions in 2019 so that we need to vet that with legal because there were some of the legal staff that said no which they're all gone yeah what should we build but let's say we want to try to build as long as it consists of city council but we're at the end of the city council yeah my opinion is yes because when Dan talks about what happened in 99 the park and rec board was very right that's a good question so let's go with crazy idea everything gets passed we're basically talking about almost doubling the mill value rate and adding 15% to the sales tax rate I don't think either of those are terrible right I mean we have to have a conversation of great this is a brilliant let's make a long long awesome list but that's a huge amount of money that most people can't afford I mean doubling your property taxes for most people is a non-serve I would agree yeah so there will be some sort of refinement within the conversation because everybody can just ask but you're never going to pass anything so I listened to the recording with the city council I couldn't go to the meeting but I listened to the recording and there was a lot of back and forth among the council members of what should be on what should be on and do you anticipate it's going to be smaller like after the initial public outreach and feedback in all your package my guess is yes you know because even at that meeting the city manager had made comments about union reservoirs on there that there was possibly another way to do that that Montgomery farm off the list there's talk about from different council members about should performing arts stay on there stay off you know the big argument for that is that the 50 million would be seed money to get other investors in to really foot the majority of that so there's all those different things that need to be weighed in on it never was union right I got a feeling so look but it's already got some sort of prioritization and then as the dollars came in that line would get kind of drawn if you had those priorities and now here's the line but you probably need that package though right unless you did something I mean I keep thinking about Denver's culture and facilities district you know that generates money and then gets allocated to things but they didn't have it wasn't set up with specific things I got to look at the mechanisms about creating the district is that what you're talking about well I just don't know how they created that it funds very similar kinds of things but I don't know the other thing in the conversation that you know there are folks that want to create a library district and so if that would go to a vote do dollars for a branch library stand you know those are all there's a lot of things that need to be happening for us to be ready for July or August well I mean I just talked to the conversation about that complexity I feel like the sooner you all can gather like really many input to narrow down that package without I mean end of March maybe would be ideal to try to get enough initial feedback to have a prioritized package that you could then you know further bet to set things up to decide for on the ballot because you're really going to have to build some buzzer I just wanted to clarify the number you said did you say 15% sales tax or 15% increases I just wanted to 3.53 to 4.79 is that the number we're talking about I thought it was like the current city sales tax is 3.53% yeah it says 1.26 it's even higher now well that's the city's part of it all together we pay 8 I thought it was 3.53 I thought it was 3.53 a little over 4 because of so I was thinking I was looking at the bottom of 15% sales tax so the bottom of top chart on page 10 says that it is 25 6% add on to the 5.53 3.53 the text above it says that it is 1.26% sales tax it was the 15% that scared me no it's not 2.53% no way so this is a separate anything else on this just an idea from the marketing side of it to get other groups out there just because Ben had been involved with this but other groups in Longmont have benefits of trying to make Longmont a smoker on the group for the visit Longmont and Chamber there too and all those groups you kind of get behind trying to to try to push this out to make benefit for them as well too so my related separate question is during that conversation there were two council members who were advocating for leaving some of the existing government broadcast funds to build a dome I didn't really understand what that was it was like a recreation facility it's what they had in mind that they weren't necessarily favoring the rec centers so I just wondered if you guys have any more information about or if you heard the same amount but I heard it's only like a million dollars so you can't do that or operate it you may have really never related to the broadcast so the city of Longmont we got just under a million dollars from the sale of the Broncos all different everybody that was in the what is the name of the district the district got money back and the city got almost a million dollars so there's a number of ideas of how to use that money the challenge is you really can't start the programs because once the money is gone there's nothing to keep those programs going so a number of council members have made suggestions of how that money could be used and I believe they're having a discussion about that at the first meeting in January some of the good repair centennial pool well I think the one thing though that it brings up when we talked about the cost factor associated with the rec center and you know my sense was this was something that would be more affordable access to recreation that was the idea I don't know whether or not it would actually work but I think that the notion of is there a way in the future to be able to make some of the recreation facilities more affordable and we reduce the need for the facilities to cover so many of their own costs you know that's we don't have to talk about that today but I think that that's a factor that we should be thinking about in the future okay cool good discussion so where do you think it will be in January do you think you guys will be have you working on your outreach plan yes when will it be ready to report back for sharing, alright so we still have an agenda discuss items from the packet updates did anyone have questions from the updates provided in the packet so I'm just curious since we're pretty much done with the year I think it's the first full year of recreation running in terms of I did a similar 50,000 earlier since 44,000 how does that look pre-COVID or whatever we're about 250 19 members not just having rangers like collecting money and collecting more as I looked at that program there's a couple reasons we wanted to do that one is there's almost a disincentive for the rangers who have tried to control activity and people trying to manage behavior to try to increase use as they're trying to manage that so I think having recreation and that and then the rangers focusing on those other pieces I think really put the right skills up to the right to help facilitate that and I think you guys have good conversations between the groups on how as you increase use what we need to do to make sure we keep it safe and fun for everyone too it really seems like the staff are trying to figure out how we work together this last year much better than this year and that sounded horrible but it just we got our feet underneath us and we only feel like that's going to continue to get better as an example union being sort of ignored for a long time disorganized is we're trying to go through the whole storage and say there's 50 boats there there's only 10 that have actual owners that we know of and some people some are abandoned some are you know no license no marking our staff is checking through state records to check if everyone has these boats and whether they want them back or whatever so it's a lot of just a little old place we're trying to build up to modern times it's starting a city ceiling well I mean we're having monthly meetings now with the rangers and it's just it's and it's not just last year it really has it long the last five years it had it's thing but it was the first place to come back and kill it so it's an interesting area that we're you know the boat storage is a really good example that the rangers don't have anything to do with the administration of that we're really good at that that's an area we really excel they're really good at checking on things in their facilities and getting the physical part of it so I think we really have a whole new boat storage thing which we were cheap we were too cheap for boat storage if I can see it so as someone who has a boat there everybody knew you pay every other year and then nobody would ever really worry because you're sick or what's kind of new and that's all you just watch out for each other that's what you would do even if you never used your boat but it's kind of out of the sticker that's crazy but you would have to go to you guys to get to be like I want to pay I don't even know how to do that well that's a real thing and then you have done a great job of trying to modernize that making people have easier ways to pay yeah I think there's just nothing but I think it's over to us the rangers have ordered you markers, stickers that are going on the boats again that conversation we can have is that Jeff has been on that cost recovery and putting dollars into programs to reach for a dollars investment when PWNR and Public Works Access Resources program that it is right back to the general fund and there is kind of gone so I think the idea now that Jeff and his group can take those dollars and try to reinvest and try to do more is great Macintosh Lake is now in the city did we ever get a boat there was a discussion a year ago that I never ever saw it maybe we didn't need it but we do need it so Dan Wolfford's there's some extra for union there we go why not I don't know the boats you want there was going to be a patrol on the weekend that was one of the supply chains we just have not been able to get it it's been on order Bryce has been working on that so we have taken one of the open space boats and we have been able to get it out there we have had people on the water actually a little bit it's actually stored over there at Macintosh so it was kind of stored back here now it is stored over there so the rangers can go take that out so yes it said roll over finish up the acquisitions on that the rangers that do those boats they also do everything that has a motor on it and as the city is trying to make this transition towards electric vehicles they are just overwhelmed with supply chain issues and trying to get the vehicles we need the problem has kind of settled down have you seen that too in the usage and stuff this year and so I didn't know if we decided not to bother or I was just curious what you would do with the update here we have two jet skis out now that's what it is that might be a smarter easier way to go yeah you're right we talked to fire about the best vehicle to have for control out there and our fire department said it's by far a lot easier to trailer access to and contact people yeah you're open and you're part of the community it makes sense as you fired actually comes over partners with us they're training out there the other one I had was on the button rock was mentioned in here that February we get an update I think it is I've had several people complain to me or tell me that they still take their dogs and let them off the leash are dogs going to be allowed or disallowed when that comes out so that will be part of the conversation going to council I'm not sure if Danielle is going to give the updates on that but I think the staff recommendation going forward would be the no dogs but I think we also have looked at what our response would be if the public or council gave us other direction too I've had several people say they will be showing up with guns literally I want to take my dog there they're already grumbling about having to have it on a leash sleepy lion part people on council will feel the same way I was just curious if that was out there in public yet anyway, thanks what's the current rule? leashed everywhere now and one dog one dog per person on a leash the proposal right now we haven't got that out and Danielle is still working on that working on it somebody is making a decision there will be decisions staff recommendations to council and then council will be able to take public input ask staff how that fits into it what the rationale for those staff recommendations are based on truly the desire at Button Rock in our management plan is laid out that the primary reason we have Button Rock is for water qualities and watershed are there going to be a lot of geese too then? have you been by McIntosh lately? we don't have a huge problem up there and geese don't have the same kind of disease transfer that so the next piece that we look at at Button Rock is to provide a place for wildlife I understand all this so the tertiary piece is how do we bring humans and their activities into that environment and that's the way we'll present our findings and then council can direct staff over there they're coming here with the help gate here at the water board and somebody else though sustainability yeah I forgot okay thanks I had fun with the question I just wanted to know do you feel like the answer is out? we, Jeff and I are going to be here on Wednesday finalize some ravage and send it to procurement to get out early January well she's done work on it so I'm hoping it's really quick shouldn't be any hold up finalize some of these angles that we want to have and then that's a whole process similar to what we just talked about as far as the public input and all that the whole package and everything you guys have just talked about specifically related to and then camera creation programs any other arms from the packet I just kind of wanted to check on you know Gayo Hart and looks like it's 90% and the last the last time I saw there were two people ball courts I was just at the Casa de la Esperanza their Christmas passada and I was at their Halloween thing and I talked to different families about the forms and now I really know what's going on with the park and they're asking what's there and something that I'm hearing a lot is soccer because that neighborhood they don't play pickleball in that neighborhood and I think that's a neighborhood park or community park there's going to be a community park nearby but that's where the hotbed of St. Rain's best soccer players are the best soccer players that go on to now high school and lead it to championships or that trailer park right there and Casa de la Esperanza and they don't actually have a place to play they play and I don't think that they need marked goals and things like that really the new marked foot soccer is really important to that neighborhood and they kind of fight for soccer rights so like in their yards where they have it it goes directly into people's gardens when they kick the ball and things like that and I know that like one click made a pickleball court but I just kind of wanted to see it there'll be a large open turf area there for field sports you need a neighborhood park we don't typically program soccer it's not stancer, it doesn't have a parking capacity for that there's nothing that says you can't have recreation games there whenever you want to there won't be goals or anything like that bring your own cones put down pennies whatever I've done in all sorts of ways in my career playing soccer and so there will be open turf there okay yeah I definitely wasn't thinking like because program soccer doesn't, that's not access to you can they don't have access to that so I was looking for and I'm just wondering, I don't know if we could have a marked a marked area that wasn't programs that people could could we have a marked soccer area with marked goals it sets a different standard and if you mark it and put goals there the soccer groups will want to play games there and that causes a whole different set up issues I went on through the whole public process saying this is going to be an open turf field or whatever sort of uses so we're not going to change it now we have one sport there it'll be available for all sorts of different field sports flying and play a family picnic set up your volleyball, badminton nets go play soccer, go play baseball, whatever you want to do and what school do they go to? they go to Indian Peaks and we're about middle schoolers they go to Sunset and then they go to my walking school some of them some of those kids are playing in our soccer program that we have for middle school because Sunset's always in there yeah there's killer soccer I won't even go out there and play with them I mean I've tried it so like over time if we want to 8.35 do we want to extend to 8.45? I don't know that we need to vote if it's only going to be 10 minutes doesn't even have anything it'll work for me maybe do it if the board is just planning to make it to 8.45 then we do not have to vote do you have any items from staff? I just have one I really want to thank the staff for what was community services library, recreation museum children, youth, and family for all helping with long long lights this last weekend again two beautiful nights otherwise and just lots and lots of people so thank you them and to the community for continuing to support that event that's all I have to say who's the director? I can't I can't the challenge and that might be where you could help us because a lot of times when we're organizing the event we don't have any staff that can do the booth because they're all we are actually for project 8.5 we are having our first educational session with vendors on Wednesday the RFP tomorrow for the first two unit parks. Box Meadows and Cove and Meadow. So, we are, our proposals will be due early if I work. All the more information in here. This is the design build thing. Definitely, I agree. Good luck. Yeah. I hope so. I hope that's good. Anything from board, quick items? I said the quick item, it's a recreation item. There are these stickers that are on the swings. I don't know if they're official or not. They had, at Thompson Park, and I saw one sticker was in the park. So, that's what makes me think that they're not official. They basically say that the swings are up to the age of 12. Those are official. Those are official. There is something that people love taking those stickers off. We try to set them up. We use Gorilla tape over them. We've done everything. Is this tape in max ages 12? Yeah. They actually, depending on the structure, they'll have different ages on them. Okay. Those are supposed to be up there. And when we have playground inspections, that's one of the things that they will look for is those stickers are on there so that people know they had to write age requirements. And the park staff just carries bundles of those trying to keep them on. And it's just been a challenge. Okay. Because the stickers have been placed in other things. Oh, really? Yeah, I don't think they pull them off and move them.  They get put on other parts of the park, or whatever, but that's why I'm like, someone had this collection from Amazon or something of these stickers. I just, it's different. So it just felt like very young age, to say like, swing on a swing, age 12, to talk to the park. Yeah. Are you feeling attached to it?  Well, I'm like, it's like, I was like, right. I think that felt like it was young age to say it's that sort of thing. I'm not really making fun of it. Yeah. And we do, I think I'm not, but at some of the time, I've been separating those age groups with the types of swings that have to be there to give, give all separation and age groups.  That's all I know. Yeah. Are they relatively you? Because those swings have been there. That's forever. Okay. Yeah, they have to. They both do for replacement. Both of those ways. So that would not be something that would be enforced. Like, no park staff would be like, you're too old for those swings. No, it's just the other way around.  You want to enforce it until it ends up in court. All right. Partying kids in the swing. Get out of there. Get out of there. I feel like I feel like I'm standing there. I'm like, oh my God. That's what those cameras were for in the parks. Yeah. Okay. Anything else before we wrap up? Hey, Jeff in the house, Nancy again. Yeah, thank you.  You guys want to make a rough center after us? It could be a gang war, a one-vote-in. Oh, yeah. I would like that. All right. Can we get a motion to adjourn, please? I'll make a motion to adjourn. Have a second. I'm just doing my cricket guys, you know. All right.