Hi, good afternoon everybody Tom Stewart with cleaning business today. I've got my partner Liz Trotter over there to your right I guess and I have the most awesome special guest for us today and this is You know, she's got a unique business. I mean most of us are in the business of cleaning homes We I do maintenance cleans like on a recurring basis and we might do a move out clean and you know Several different types of clean all in the realm of residential cleaning Sharon grammar is in St. Louis, Missouri, and she is owner of her business called Benacor and she's been in business since 2005 She's got a very special niche. She does bio recovery work. She Type of jobs that her business does is everything from like crime scene and trauma. She cleans up meth labs Porter cleanup stuff that's really hazardous, you know, you've got You know jobs where people wear the Tyvek suits and the respirators and like all the full, you know PPE well, you know, that's that's basically their job every day and they're 24 hour a day seven day a week operation and We're all really interested in terms of how do we cleave and clean in the COVID-19 world and you know We're all getting calls from people that you know, they have a family member that's been sick Or there's an office space for somebody who's been sick and you know, how do how are we going to deal with that? How are we going to respond to that? So You know, this is really great opportunity because Sharon knows all those answers She can tell you what you need to know to do that type of work and what the risks are what the requirements are and You know, I could go on and on but I'd rather free to hear it from Sharon. So how are you doing today Sharon? Good Tom? How are you doing? I'm doing awesome. Thank you so much for joining us. You're welcome Could you could you tell us a little bit about your business them type of work you do and maybe some of the interesting projects You guys are currently working on sure. We've been in business since 2005 doing I call specialty cleaning We do all types of hoarder cleanup meth lab or mediation restoration crime and trauma scene cleanup vehicle decontamination odor control Anything that that's a special cleaning we can get it done and we really enjoy it Okay Do you guys have any increase in demand since the COVID-19? Epidemic pandemic has come to our shores Absolutely And I'm sure and I'm sure a lot of maid services have had requests too But there's a few differences that I wanted to discuss with the maid service owners because we also have a maid service My sister myself, but we have this and we're trained So there's a lot of things that people need to know before they go out and do a deep clean For someone that they don't have no idea what really is involved Okay, share with us a little bit about Well, so what how much how busy are you guys? I'd like to get into that You were sharing with me a little bit about some of the work that you're doing and I mean you're doing some work for like We've got this term out there that we're talking about essential services and their essential services and then there are essential services You guys are doing work for Businesses if they weren't in business It would basically shut down everything and you guys are keeping them safe so they can do their jobs Could you share a little bit about that? Definitely, we were very fortunate to be in contact with Amron UE, which is our big utility here in Missouri and Illinois To be one of their contractors 24-7 that was one of their stipulations So I think we signed contract on a Friday our first job was on I think 322 322 and Ever since that day, we I don't think we've had a day off. I think we've had 32 jobs in 20 some odd days or not even 20 days. It's insane the first week was Crazy, I think we thought we were prepared we were we had all our stuff are a lot of ducks in a row, but the Electric company did not I think when the pandemics started to come to st. Louis They didn't think it would be here as quick. So they had they had employees. Oh my god. I need this clean Oh, he said he was sick. I need my truck clean. I need my building cleaned We cleaned a lot the first week until they figured out their systems and we put some Protocol on paper to them. So after this when the second week came There were steps to follow and people understood were you in direct contact with someone a secondary or third third? Exposure and that really helped calm down the situation and their employees because the electric company is something we all need We need our utilities. I mean so to give them a safe place Really felt great because they actually used our expertise versus what they had to offer. I mean it was it was awesome So when you get these calls you're you have to ask a bunch of questions, I guess just to kind of figure out What problem you're trying to solve and to kind of come up with a scope of work So is there a lot of dialogue before you guys even start doing the work? There is we have a we have one Consultant that handles our company and the Missouri the southern Missouri and what we work in probably a two three hour range of st It was so she tells us is a what happened There's we we deal with three levels level one is I'll read them to you Level one suspected second or third exposure to a confirmed case, but no test So when you say second or third exposure, what does that mean? It could be a co-worker of a co-worker. It could be a co-worker of your spouse That they were sick, but they didn't they didn't get a test so it wasn't confirmed So it could be hearsay or they could have just had the flu or a cold So I you know my wife is sick and I work with you. I'm I think I'm healthy But because my wife is sick and I work with you that's a second exposure. That's that's a level one They're doing that because there was no test if there's no test and there it's hard to get testing here because so many people have Try to get it that they've really tried to weed out the people that really aren't that sick or it couldn't be the COVID so there's not a lot of testing available. So When I talked to there's three levels all three levels, I Just need to know the floor plan Because all three levels I wear the same equipment because I don't like to take someone's word that Okay, level one just knew a co-worker that could have been sick Okay, it could have been as wife That had a co-worker that definitely was sick, but you know the code we're in the allergy season There's a lot of things that people get mixed up and the the way the pandemic came so quickly I think a lot of people are scared and they just I guess they're assuming the worst So they just they want the area clean to be have a peace of mind So they can go to work and get their job done and I feel like they're gonna get a disease That's that could possibly kill them What's a level two level two is Direct or indirect exposure to a possible but confirm unconfirmed case, but it had a positive test Okay, so there's no question about it somebody had COVID someone had COVID there Okay, then level three is a positive COVID test direct interaction with a positive test. It was there a kid a family member or a spouse in Their immediate family or a boyfriend or girlfriend that had a confirmed case of it So to us like I said all three levels we suit up and everything's treated the same way The only difference is on the scenario level one We they may only want us to do half of the building as far as high disinfecting the high touch areas and then fogging and then versus the second and third We do the whole building no matter how large it is the trucks are the same way Everything is the trucks are a little different even if it's level one We do everything because you understand the trucks. They are so dirty. They're like the power plants so you really have to clean it first and Then disinfected and it really does take twice as long to do a truck One truck could take us an hour to clean it because they have all that mud and dirt Everywhere caked inside the cake inside their truck So we have to get that out before we can even disinfect same way of the plants that we do a lot of those tech shops Maintenance shops they're in the mud all their time their hands are filthy the drawers with the labels They're so dirty You can't even read the labels because if they're all black because they're used to you know They know where this stuff is and what drawer it goes in but they can't read the labels So we actually have to clean that before we can actually disinfect anything So I mean you get into a truck. I'm I'm I'm imagining like a truck that a power worker would use They've got to have like all kinds of tools and toolboxes and drawers Do you have to get in and clean all of that stuff too? We do what we do They can tell us whether or not the gentleman either stayed inside the truck or walked around his bucket truck Well, they have different compartments around the truck if they didn't go inside the compartments We still do the handles and the the doors on the outside if they did get into the tools We hand wipe all the tools and then we just we use the gun or a fogger to get in there and let us sit in It has to stay wet for ten times or ten minutes We have a ten minute dwell time with our disinfectant that we always go by right Okay Wow, this sounds my mind My heart's racing a little bit. I mean this is exciting. This is like a this is like a TV show Honestly every time we get a call my heart races, too. It's almost like it's your first job. You're like, yeah, baby. Let's go. Let's go Hi Sharon, you said at one point that cleaning the truck would take like an hour That doesn't sound very long if you're having to clean all of that stuff inside There's that like kind of a minimum that you might expect to spend a minimum Yeah, because you're they all there it's not like a regular car word just as you know the gear shift I mean, there's all yeah buttons CB's a couple other pieces of equipment that they talk in and out of like walkie-talkies Their bucket trucks we we even do the buckets where they have to stand in but We have to get behind the seats It's only the truck is only the front part if you think about it. It's like the cab Sometimes people can sit there and then sometimes three So it's not very big But there's a lot going on in that area that you just have to get to because they I know that you know They touch it and then plus if they had it you don't know where the droplets land So it is just a matter of touching everything cleaning it and then disinfecting it How do you deal with like the electron? It's like the radios and all that stuff if you're like getting any of that wet wouldn't that create problems That's a great question One reason that we had a lawyer draw up a coronavirus contract So whatever we clean whoever we clean for we go over the specifics of the contract Because there are issues when you have to leave like an electronic wet on some of their electronics We will sit there and actually instead of wetting in with the gun we'll fog it out But we will have to keep Manually wiping it off If we can see it starts to dry off we wet it again We do the best we can and we tell them we're not responsible because it's what has to be done Like in the plants in the control rooms. We're not allowed to touch any keyboards Switches or anything all we can do is the counters around everything Because everything's so sensitive and it's set to certain programs for the electric company That's probably the scariest room is are the control rooms, but Are these like nuclear power plants no, but it's I've never been Really because they're like don't touch this this and this and we're like so We're only doing the white the counter that we can see right yep, okay It's funny because we clean one power plant three times because of the coronavirus The first time we went in there We're all in suits and people will walk around with their hands They see us in suits and gloves and mask and shields and they're touching everything the second time They're doing the same thing. They're touching the doors. They have no gloves on the third time low and hold This guy they all come out in suits and gloves and they were fine And I'm like didn't you learn the first time when we're on the suits and gloves we don't touch any handles We open things with the gloves or our shirts. No, they didn't learn it took them three times and learned that you know what they're in this The next probably four or five months. You're gonna be wearing gloves to touch something or as soon as you touch it You're gonna have to go wash your hands use a sanitizer But people they really don't think that it can affect them and tell There's a lot of people that from their company that get I mean, I think just one plant had like 35 people sick with it So we cleaned it three times within I think 10 days Because they wear respirators now when they work. They sure do But except in the control room it's funny because one gentleman actually worked in the control room And they still don't wear the respirators and a lot of a lot of older guys and they're like, oh, you know We're fine if we get it we get it as part of God's work. I'm thinking well, but you can protect yourself I mean it may be part of God's work But how about let's take a little precaution and extend your life Don't let it be your fault that you get sick let it be a maybe another reason But definitely not because you're not just protecting yourself with gloves and a mask. That's something simple that everyone can do So we're talking about gloves and masks all the PPE can you explain a little bit like what the Proper PPE is to do this type of work. All right. Well, let me first by starting most cleaning companies Really can't be compliant with OSHA to do this type of cleaning. I'm gonna show you our company book. That's OSHA compliance only it has our hazard commution communication plans our blood-borne pathogens Everything if they come in and ask that we need it's all in this book.    I mean, it's just really important I don't want to miss that. So if I'm going to be Doing this type of work going into space where there's like a level one two or three You know COVID cleanup case that I'm taking on I need to let my insurance company know I'm doing that work and they're gonna give me a different what they call scopes code and they're going to Charge me I presume a higher workers comp rate for people doing that type of work Definitely. Yeah, I can tell you the money is awesome but we pay a hefty premium for all our insurances because of that reason because of Too many unknowns. There's too many unknowns in our line of work. I mean, whether you're doing crime scene disease control There's too many uncertainty uncertainties that we don't know and they can't even explain.  I mean, it's a long list of what it could cost you. It's not worth it Sharon is this Would you say that this is the same thing on just residences? So if somebody's in their own home and they're saying hey, my husband's co-worker thinks he might have been exposed You want to make sure before you go into that house that you have special insurance and All the PPE you're gonna talk to us about in a minute Correct and you know it seems simple because a lot of the CDC recommendations and as we go on our power plants and buildings We see a lot of bottles that are That has bleach and it says bleach on there and it's broken down one to ten Well, it tells you what it is on each bottle and they go in and they use that and sure I mean, I'm in a drill time and it's good, but just think you can't use bleach on everything Bleach does corrode some items and who wants to the breed that continually you really can't even our disinfectants that we use That's why you have to have the proper PPE because it does give you a few respiratory issues I mean, if you don't have a mask on you're gonna your eyes are gonna be irritated Your lungs are gonna be irritated and it's gonna be hard for you to breathe And you're gonna need to step outside and you can't because you're in full suit Because if you go outside, you got to take it all off and start all over again So you mentioned the breathing, you know, you hear a lot about the N95 Respirators and everybody's looking for those because supposedly that protects you from a coronavirus But if you're using some of these disinfectants, especially if you're fogging or misting is The typical N95 enough or do you need something more substantial than that? Well, we use full face mask respirators or a half face We have either the full face or the half face respirator a face shield the safety goggles and then the suits and Then we triple glove no matter what scenario we do we always triple glove We'll clean a room and then we Everyone leaves and the person that fogs or uses the gun the gun goes first and then the fogging comes last So he's the only person in there usually and he he just worked his way back out of the room But the personal protective equipment the PPE is crucial. I mean N95 is okay if you're going to the in my opinion if you're going to the grocery store Something like that. It's a simple small mask It's great if you're going in a home cleaning and you want to protect someone from a code or something But I think you need a little bit more than that For the this type of cleanup. I mean just added protection. Why would you want to? Shortcut yourself and just go to the second the next level and get something that can protect everyone So you're basically cover from head to toe and tibet suit What type of footwear do you guys use tibet suit? Well, we're always in still toe shoes Because of the plants we always have to have still toe shoes and in the plants themselves We have to have hard hats so you're talking in closed suit with the booties and the hood We also have booties over our booties Then you put your respirator the goggles booties We're we are extra save time We are double tripling everything because it's not worth it one more pair of booties one more pair of gloves At a certain point you can only have to move a little bit anyway. So what does it matter if you have three pair of gloves on? It's just added protection. It's not overkill.  Some things are really serious like COVID-19.  I mean it's some I mean you can't how long can you work in that before you need to? Take you know that respirator off and breathe real air We've done five hours the first time we did the power plant We had to stop at five hours because it was actually a full night like 45 But in the plants, they're so hot and then when you add the added suit and then plus on level three I'm sorry. I think it's level three. We wear two suits Okay, it is it's very hot, but Once you do it, it's not really uncomfortable It may you may get a little heated But you learn how to breathe and adapt and all our workers know if you get hot you go outside Take it all off take a 30 minute break. We have you know ice packs and stuff cool down Then you just come back in and find us and you do that, but we'll take a break after five hours Here lately, we've been very good since we've done a couple plants It doesn't take us five hours anymore. It's a matter of getting your your systems down and how you're going to do it We all do the same jobs and we work very well together. So It's actually a lot easier now since we have two weeks underneath our belt So like when you're taking all that equipment off, I guess you have to take a lot of precautions there not to To So you don't know off that's why you need the proper training of the PPE Outer gloves first everything else can come off at the finale your suits gonna come off everything You take it inside out your last gloves all inside out everything your shoes inside out one person I'm usually the last person that takes everything off because I get all their year it goes in bags and totes The suits get pitched the respirators the filters gets pitched because after each one we replace the filters And I go back and we we before we leave whatever job we have Extension cords tools whatever we have we have job boxes. It all gets disinfected We stay there ten minutes well time for our equipment also We take it back to the shop and that's where we soapy water everything with the our respirators and all that Okay, it's just a long process a job may take you four hours, but you're talking another hour beforehand Sometimes an hour and a half afterwards just to get everything back into working condition for the next job Yeah, I'm exhausted just listening to all of that But but I am like kind of impressed that you can go five hours Double-suited with all of that stuff on I was totally expecting to hear you say two hours I'll tell you why it's hard Fortunately for us We stocked up a little bit because we're members of an association and they warned us Start stocking up because people are going to run out of things so we stocked up on our suits But we're actually still running out of suits and you know We're continually ordered ordering them. Fortunately that suits aren't as bad as the gowns that the doctors needs But you get used to it I mean they all our workers are individuals and they know how long they can take if there's if it's hot outside It you know on 80 degrees outside. We probably couldn't make it more than two three hours, but being 45 50 degrees It's actually sort of cool Bad you get thirsty. I go to the bathroom. I mean I I mean you just gonna have to suck it up I guess huh you do and one thing we do and we know we haven't a long job We take electrolyte pills that helps retain your water And it helps you not have to go to the bathroom and we usually take those in the end of the day So it lasts the rest of the day and they really do help so the next day you don't wake up Drained totally tired.  I mean like I said, we've been going since the 22nd every single day And I haven't had anyone call off They're all they all get excited too, but yeah another job It just preparation as long as you have your systems in place you can do it But you have to do it the right way do it the safe way and do it the OSHA way Yeah, I heard somewhere that you have some type of a training for this is that accurate so that people can do it The right way. How do they learn to do it the right way? We're members of the American Biorecovery Association That if I could give you any recommendation go through that association and pick one of those members that train you There's a lot of people out there that you can do stuff online Like the 40 hour that's something you have to go get that you need the hands-on experience These people at the Abra American Biorecovery Association They're certified most of these people are we're very fortunate. They are Infectious disease control people they give us a list of stuff and protocol what the follow I mean, we're lucky that they have they knew ahead of time I think I'm like November that this may be coming to America from China that they had some words So get someone that has the knowledge and their check their credentials because some of these people for $99 you're not going to get the proper training for $99. I don't think you're going to get it for $1,000 We paid a lot more than that, but you get what you pay for So you guys you guys were starting to prepare for this back in November. There there was someone that mentioned The The White House cancer Fiery or whatever he had published some articles and did some interviews Saying that an outbreak was destined to happen and go back and check it I think he even mentioned it in like 2017 that this a pandemic was going to be coming and November that they sent out an email December hit You can no longer find the electrostatic guns. They were foggers. I actually don't use a regular fogger I use a motor mediation fogger because they're so hard to find and they to me The air the houses that we do in the buildings that we do they work better, but December it was hard to find in 95 mask People were starting to hoard them because as you can see here I think like in January everybody was trying to sell stuff on eBay for an ungodly amount of money Because they knew and they went out and bought sanitizer and all this stuff But the big thing was the suits Gloves and the electrostatic guns people bought those up really quick and before anyone had a chance or at least companies Had a chance to buy more get them ready available for it to clean for the pandemic Wow, I have two questions One is great has a question Sharon He wants to know if you guys use a buddy system to make sure that everybody's following the protocols We do we never split up as a team we may have nine people on a job we're in the same room together and I've had many requests to split up in the power plant, but Like I said, we work well together. We have one older gentleman and we all check on them We all we all know how we react to certain things like with the respirators the two suits So everyone knows we're like in a row. You sort of know how to check on them and make sure everything Everyone's okay because I think one or I think twice he had to leave Anyway, so we took a break and then he came back in with us But you know, they know you can't it's something that you can't don't wait another hour or 30 minutes If you feel yourself overheating you have to immediately go outside get some ice cool down get some cool water and let your body Chain, you know, get the temperature back up to what it should be or you back down to what it needs to be My next question. Thank you. Thanks, Sharon I mean you have so much information my my brain kind of is already Thinking You would not be able to figure the stuff out on your own you need someone to train you like the like the electrolyte pills, right? You know that nobody's gonna be able to figure that out, right, right, but my question was When you're when you're shopping for some of these things and specifically I'm talking about the Tyvek suits I see all different types of price points around Tyvek, right? I can see him as low as four dollars I can see him for as much as $60. What what's the difference there? Well, there's Tyvek suits. There's there's different types And there's different clean guard suits clean guard suits. We use for more along the lines of the blue suits blood-borne pathogens Tyvek suits there may be some Tyvek suits that have the hood, but don't have the booties some may not have the hood or the boot and you we use a certain brand that has the hood in the booties but I pay probably I think 12 something 12 some 12 60 something for our suit and Then I charge I think it's 1862 when we use the suits all you know It's like you know, she upcharged a little bit our filters. I charge a little bit more for them I think our filters we I charge 1675 for the little respirators and I think they're Around 10 bucks at our normal prices a normal Tyvek suit Normal Tyvek suit that you can probably get from John Donn could be anywhere from 785 up to Maybe 15 depending on the size and the number you use so there's different types of them But now people like the N95 mask great example. I see people selling those for $10 a pop.  I mean, I'm telling you people have gotten rich and it's it's sort of sickening because come on people You know Maybe at first they thought alright I can make a lot of money but when this hits so quick and it killed so many people and all the Hospitals and stuff needed the equipment at a certain point. Come on go donate it You made some money donate what you have left and do something good for what you did I mean something good can come out of you hoarding a whole bunch of N95 masks that not everyone could use and mainly the people that Hope you know the hospitals that really need those masks or the people at turning in the and the people that are sick It's sort of sad Yeah You also said something else Sharon. Sorry to pull us off track, but I I'll lose my question if I don't ask You were talking about charging Different prices for different things So what I'm hearing is that maybe you charge a price, but then you have add-ons for different things Is that right right because every time you order equipment the price always changes because sometimes one Vendor might be out of it and another one. So we I have a set price when I charge people Here's what I charge when I do our invoices a suit I have three supervisors. So a supervisor is 295 25 The our biotechs are 140 275 and we pay them 50 bucks an hour We've charged sick. We charge 6775 for 75 microfiber towels We charge the respirators the Tyvek suits are 1872, I believe and the respirator filters are I think 38 or something. So we charge for the respirator Sharon the microfiber towels. So you throw those away. You don't do correct Correct, let's get thrown away, but they they've been known to actually pick up as you guys know extra bacteria Tyria, so we use those when we clean and disinfect everything with the high-touch areas. I Think it's all I charge for mobilization fee the suits The respirators the towels Oh, the whatever disinfection I'm using because we have three disinfectants that we use and The electric company with all their engineering and chem labs They reduce this to two because there's one that's a stronger one that interferes with a lot of their Equipment so we're not allowed to use that at their plants or their buildings And then yeah, the labor and that's all we charge for it. Oh That's all things So what's a mobilization fee well because I don't since I pay them $50 an hour while we're cleaning It helps documentation fees and pay a little bit more when I can pay them up You know 12 bucks an hour because some places we go or two three hours away So I had to pay I like to pay them something besides the $50 an hour because this is hard work Yeah, the money is absolutely incredible But you can be really physically exhausted even if you take your pills five hours in a suit When you are hand-touching everything and when we do these big power plants we may go in 45 different office built Areas so one after another it's sort of it's a little tiring but like I said now we're used to it, but There they deserve every penny of it because there they work their butt off and they do it the right way That's the key you got to do it the right way that you cannot have any shortcuts not in this line of work You really can't You are also saying Sharon that you pay $50 for your text. What do you what do you pay your supervisors? Do you mind if I ask that?  I mean, I was just I like it I like they're getting 295 just saying It really is hard I charge that that's my Being in in bio and crimes Trauma cleanup. It's the same fee I charge for that line of work, too Yeah, well, I mean, it's a lot of education too. This isn't just the work that you're doing at that point in time There's a lot that goes in so right if a homeowner called you up and said that you know a family member has had COVID-19 and You know, we want to get our three-bed two-bath 2000 square foot home Disinfected What would that take and you know, how would that process look like how long would that take? Probably a lot longer than I do with the plants the plants are really simple because their offices and There's not a lot of clothing or porous materials. Everyone takes their stuff home There's not a lot of things laying out except for staplers, you know, the phones the mouses and you know, the pins and that line of things I Would bet just say a 2000 square foot house Three-bedroom two-bath. I bet it may take Close to five hours because there's a lot more there that you have to clean Is that five is that five like clock hours for your whole team or just five labor hours? it probably be close to five labor hours and I'll tell you why because Yeah, we do the high touch areas as far as the knobs the doors We do a little bit more. I don't like just doing a doorknob or Around the door Handle I like doing where where people touch guys are gonna lean up here on top of the door So we print we wipe a lot I wipe all the cabinets the drawers Inside the drawers the lips where I think they're gonna touch a house is gonna have a lot more activity So I think that would take a lot longer between four and five hours sure you're probably looking at If I had I'm gonna do the numbers real quick if I had say four people with me five hours There's a calculator. Okay Let me use my calculator quick. So 1180 20 to 72 plus 1180 3450 34 54 is just labor. So then you're probably looking at you might be looking at 300 towels So that's another what 71 40 280 Mobilization to use 275 you'd have five filters at to say hundred bucks Oh, I cleared it up 24 22 plus You said 300 cows is that 300 like dollars worth of towels or no 300 I charge per 75 So it's 300 towels. I would say at least that might be more. You're probably looking about $4,500 to clean a 2000 square foot house It may not be as bad if they didn't have a lot of things sitting out When you have a lot of things sitting out like I said We're touching all that we're gonna clean it by hand before we gun it because we do it We do it three ways or three fold Everything gets hand-touched and wiped We come through one person comes through with the gun and gets all those eye-touch areas And then the last thing we do is fog So I called the triple effect because I'm gonna make sure that house or that office building is super clean There is nothing's gonna escape us. I mean because you don't know how long the droplet the COVID-19 droplet They say it could stay in the air four hours, but they don't know there's too many uncertainties They don't know how long does this stay on a a map piece of metal. It could be up to nine hours Or it could be four days. I've heard so many contradicting opinion. So I take that out of the I prefer to do it High-touch areas the gun so it saturates everything and then we fog it To me I do a great enough job, but I don't think I'm gonna have anything left, but One thing bad about the COVID-19 With the asymptomatic to people and the symptomatic people I can clean a house The next day someone comes in and they can recontaminate it that was And that was part of the problem why they didn't want my contract because we did the power plant three times remember You don't it could be the guys not wearing gloves, but it could have already been somebody that was sick They didn't know they were sick yet. So this is a crazy disease that could cost a lot of money for cleanup because for those reasons and For me doing it the way I do it I like it, but then again Someone could come in the next day or a couple days later Touch something and get something affected and then there goes spreading it again So it's going to be a very costly cleanup forget the economy part of it clean up is going to be astronomical for some of these companies Absolutely, I have two more questions Sharon. I've always have two The first question is is that price the same regardless level one level two level three I know you said you were the same PPE, but you charge the same as well. Yep. The only thing On level one the I came to the agreement on level one if it's a if it's a 20,000 square foot building and if they can guarantee me that And themselves that they know the the foot traffic of that individual if they know because we've done a couple of them If they can tell me exactly the floor plan where they walked the four ways the offices they visited the lunch room I will do it that way, but I still fogged the rest of the building to me You can't be overprotective. You might as well just fog it because of the How long does the buyer stay around they just don't know yet So I would prefer to just fog the other areas and make your co-worker your co-worker Want to come into work because they know the whole building got done Not just where Joe walked down to pick up a sandwich stopped here and ate stopped here and talked to Mary, you know, it's sort of It's the best practice. It really is Well, and it makes sense to me because maybe Joe walked here left a little bit of covet right here But then Mary came along and grabbed someone took it somewhere else. So they don't When I I had to do scenarios for the the electric company and They didn't it took them I swore almost a week to get that and that someone else could have picked it up and transferred it and they finally We finally agreed on these three scenarios. So it's just easier. I mean, why would I'm already there Why would you want to send me back again to incur more more calls? Just let me fog it It doesn't take a person that long to fog a building it really doesn't So if you fog the entire building, but you're fogging space that you have it wiped down Yeah, I are you making any claims of it being disinfected? What is the efficacy of fogging that space it just to give the co-workers Like I said the first week They had so many panic workers. It was crazy. Everyone was saying they had a runny nose. He had a cough I need I need my space cleaned. I mean I can't I drove us crazy because we're like, okay We'll get there, but we got two hours here and maybe three hours here and it was a long first week It really is just a safeguard to make sure nothing's still there Because I don't just fog it. I mean I use the gun the gun is always first and then we fog it I don't high touch those areas, but it's the high touch area is getting done with the fog And the gun is the electrostatic the guns the electrostatic spray Wets it and it makes sure it sticks on whatever we hit whatever it hits it stays on there So it's almost guaranteed to be a two minute dwell time. I mean a lot of the areas I tell them we may have some phones or some keyboards that don't work, but you know what? It's clean and I guarantee you there's no germs on that sucker Okay I had another question Sharon. Um, when you look like if you were to clean a house Um, and you've done all of this work Is there a certain amount of time that you want the house to remain vacant before people are allowed back in? Right. Well, actually the cdc recommends that you don't clean anything for 24 hours Well with the electric company, we can't wait. I mean there's some areas like the control rooms We have to get right there. They can't they usually have two control rooms It takes them 30 minutes to close to open the other one down up before they can close the other one down and so the times are uh, we got restraint time, but You're really supposed to after we clean it You're not supposed to be in there for three to four hours because of disinfectant and the irritants So and then after that you're supposed to ventilate it and open the windows for I always tell them a day I'd prefer them not to go in there for a day, especially if it's a house So what the electric company is actually doing is after we're done We open all the doors They usually have a couple workers outside the park a lot waiting for us And they stay there all night and leave the doors and windows open and then close the next day before the workers come in Because some of their buildings they can afford the the people can go home and do the work from home But other buildings they have to get back in there and go to work. So They don't have a choice yeah uh, so, uh, Heather just popped on here and so Question You might have to go back and watch the this video Heather because sharing has shared So much information But her question here is um Do you have a recommendation on where to learn the proper way to use a fogger for this disinfection? But she's going to tell you that that's not enough You need way more than just learning that it's not enough You need to start with the owner guide owner's guide and go with the manufacturer go to their website There's a lot of videos on all of the manufacturer's website how to use it properly and then look at all the disclaimers I mean like the guns it'll tell you You can't use anyone that has a pacemaker and you may not know if someone has a pacemaker There's a lot of things that go into this stuff The deaffibrillator you can't use that within I think 10 feet of that So a lot of our every office building that we clean has had those so we always watch out whoever does the high touch areas We do this Someone gets the attention as points so we know where big breaker boxes are any kind of medical equipment You just learn to watch out for that kind of thing. I mean that's their our first four people as they clean That's what their job is to look for the big breaker boxes any kind of medical device But like the pacemaker some things you would never know if someone's walking by in the plants because we do areas at a time Where the guys just walk through and walk out right in front of us something like that you would never know So I would never want to put something in harm's way So We don't use it and that it's always off until we get into the area when we're getting ready to use it So go to the manufacturer. I mean you really it that's what you really need to do You also mentioned Earlier Sharon you've mentioned a couple different times the number of people that you take in and that you guys always stay together um, do you have uh, like a certain number of people Per square foot or how do you determine how many people are going in like you wouldn't put the same amount of people in a 2000 square foot house that you would put in No plan and our power plants we take everyone on a building that A lot of the buildings probably average five to six thousand square foot and I take one there's five of us I don't I don't like going less than five because we all have certain jobs So we're all used to that person doing a certain job So we have two or three people that do the first couple jobs So I can do without the extra people But the back end is imperative that we there's certain protocol that we follow and for us to get our job done quickly and efficiently We keep the same people that's always there I just What's an example of a job you're talking about people doing different jobs. What what what what are these jobs? The last person would be the fogger the second person would be the The second from the last would be the gunner the first set of people are the high touch areas Those are the people like I said look for the medical devices and think breaker boxes Anything that could be a device that could interact with the um the gun I'm usually the gunner person But before that before they start we always take a walk around the floor plan and look and we try to remember the areas that we go into but With me being second the last sometimes on the fog or two You just learn to look for everything the the third The person from the gunner always double checks everything on the dust to make sure it looks like the stapler's wet Everything's wet everything was touched every pin the markers it's sort of The mindset what what each person has they know what their job entails So we know every we cross all our T's and dot the i's Is the high tech person actually applying a spraying on a disinfectant with the idea that it sets her for 10 minutes No That is the person I we just like that's the first part of it. We like to hand touch everything as far as staplers keyboards Pin every marker every pair of scissors you're just you're just cleaning it with a regular clean with it cleaning it with no no no no no We use a regular cleaner if at first when the plants were dirty when we go into these buildings A microfiber and the disinfectant that's on all high-touch areas. That's first using the disinfectant to clean with Yeah, if it's dirty, it's got to be cleaned before we can go to that stage That's just the that's a pre stage the clean part So you're making four four stages if it's dirty the first stages is getting the dirt off correct correct But that's what I said We hand touch everything the gun does it again all the high touch areas and then the fogging does the whole the whole room itself You mentioned a 2000 square foot home you could you would use up to 300 towels You know it's heavy homes. How about just general maintenance clean? How many homes would we clean with 300 towels? I use a lot less towels than most companies so i'm not sure I'd use that many in a year Because we fold ours and you're not supposed to move I don't like using more than one or two square foot Poor purse per flip So once something gets dirty if there's visible dirt on it They have to flip it and you turn it and if your towel is too dirty you get a new towel It's just I'm not going to add bring contribute that dirt to another area They know if something's dirty and you can't flip your towel over and there's nothing on it. You go get a new towel Well, and it's different power plants are totally different too. I mean even office buildings There's a lot of different grind that you get is it's not worth transferring I need it clean so I my disinfectant does the first job and then it's ready for the gunner and the fogger So just get a new towel. I mean i'm not paying for it, but they want it done the right way So just get you a new towel.  It's just not worth it Sharon Yeah, this is obviously dangerous work In the years you've been doing this because you guys have been doing this since 2004 five five Have you ever had any close calls where? Somebody's suit rips or something happens where you know, it was a close call a scary moment The only incident we had as a couple meth labs when we were cleaning We one time we picked up a mattress and there was still chemical I guess the police didn't see him because they had it hidden underneath the mattress There was chemicals in a mountain dew bottle and usually you can tell the coke bottles that likes the Put bubbles or something on the top And it was actually part of the chemicals they used to do the meth So that's sort of scary because we're cleaning there with different chemicals And that could have ignited an explosion or something flammable. So that was probably our scariest moment other than that I mean we've had We found guns. We found bullets that you have to stop and call the police but nothing except for the Meth part that was like life that could be life altering to any of our employees or you know myself Okay This is It's a different world, isn't it? It is a sort of scary This is a new question Sharon. So if someone had COVID-19, but they vacated the home for two weeks Would you still do this entire process? Well, the CD would recommend it the cdc says after someone has the symptoms for at least seven I think seven or nine days. You don't really have to clean I Maybe I probably wouldn't go to the Links that I do But I sure would at least High-touch everything and gun everything just you know for my safe of mind as you know my piece of mind. I mean just So no one else more psychological It is sometimes it really is it really is Yeah, absolutely. At least a basic disinfectant. Yeah, I mean they couldn't never hurt anything. So Like I said, there's too many uncertainties. They don't know how how long it Stays on different circuit, you know, like metals Uh carpets If they knew for sure it'd be easy to answer that question, but they're they don't know for sure I mean different experts have different opinions, but if they don't know I'm going to go take the extra precaution to do everything I can to make sure that area is clean and safe So someone can come back into work and know. Wow. I can touch my keyboard and do my stuff and answer my phone I'm good to go So you're reminding me of another question Sorry, tom. I have to ask this where I'll forget again So earlier you had talked about It was going to take more time to do the home Then it would be the power plant because and one of the things you mentioned was because of the different surface surfaces There's a lot more Forest surfaces you mentioned clothing. So are you cleaning all the clothing the bedding? What's happening there? You're supposed to launder the clothing like you can actually wash You're like if I didn't have a if my spouse had the covet I could actually wash Their stuff with my stuff as long as you're cleaning it in the with the in the hot the hot water You're fine. This is the cdc says So anything pours I would just take down wash it in hot water And that should be good. You should be good to go there Shampoo you can shampoo your carpets with a disinfectant just to make sure that Is safe, but usually Usually carpet sucks up the moisture anyway, so it doesn't live very long on the carpet part of it I would be more worried about the high touch areas than you know, your knobs your countertops remotes Uh things along those lines your coffee maker furniture Do what a postage furniture It would I'll tell you what we do in the offices a lot of the offices have their fabrics half of the chair is fabric We I saturate them because it has to be able to get into all The whole part of the chair you want to make sure it's wet enough So it soaks in and gets the whole entire part of the back and the bottom of the chair So I mean some things it may discover I haven't had any problems with the disinfectants that I use that it would do that, but you know Leather leather might leave some running runoff lines on it after 10 minutes. It's it's something you may just have to Live with at least, you know, it's safe. I mean if you don't want it I don't know what to tell you just go ahead and throw it away now if you don't want me to clean it I mean seriously, especially if you It sounds like if you have contracts that kind of indemnify you from that, right?  So I make it very clear when someone calls me What happens you got to tell them exactly Why how could that can happen and just because you clean how can they come in and dirty it again? They don't sometimes it's a mindset. They don't understand that you just got to go over all the scenarios with them and you know It is what it is Yeah I guess I did have another question if I forgot it. Okay. Let me go back to the other one real quick When you were talking about going in and we were talking about like the clothing and the carpets Are you including all of that in your 30,454 dollar price? Are you expecting them to do some of that? If they do some of that that would help I just that's just probably a guideline the price If I have to do all that You know a lot longer in a home if I if they wanted me to take down all the drapes and all that I have no problem doing that or I could saturate everything but the clothing alone needs to go in the You know in the wash machine in the hot setting that has to be done But the drapes something like that and the furniture And a coat sitting out I can saturate it with the disinfectant But eventually they're going to have to wash them before they wear it anyway Yeah, I did have another question Sharon. Do you have um as far as your disinfectants that you use? Do you have a favorite or um, is there something that makes you think? Oh, this is I like this better than this because of this reason or I like shock wave shock waves a very strong disinfectant and they're the ones that the uh electric company wouldn't let me use because of the all All the uh hazards and the flammability but I like microband germicidal And milgo plus are two really good, uh disinfectants. I've been using the microband germicidal for all the electric plants that we do Shock wave and a power plant probably would Exactly I even got that Oh There's even one like the pro lexus guns use pure tabs and it's actually a really good It doesn't smell it. I really like it But they wouldn't let me use it because of it's considered with the epa registered disinfectants It's registered as a pesticide and they told me unless I had a pesticide license that I wasn't allowed to use it I said no problem. I have another alternative Okay, oh, yeah, I didn't know that about the pure tabs. Yeah, and I'm just amary you was I mean all their engineers and chemists they went over our msb's sheets and They were really particular I mean, I liked it because I learned a lot about the different chemicals and disinfectants that we use but They were all about uh making sure it was safety going all the power plants and all their buildings Yeah We're we're right up against it our hour here sharing this is Awesome information I apologize for talking so fast because I get so excited that I just like the ramble There's a lot of thinking about you know What do we as house cleaning companies do and how to react and what are the opportunities and this information? What you're sharing is is is really needed for You know for us to get our minds wrapped around what What we actually are dealing with and and what we need to be be doing moving moving forward Are there any last thoughts that that maybe we haven't asked or touched upon that that that you should share with us No, just just think about a couple two or three thousand dollars And it turns out that it could be your life and an employee life someone else's life or you totally Blow up something. I mean You think it's not possible, but it really is feasible. Just be careful. It's not worth losing your business your home Your life's work be careful And if you want to get the proper training just go to an accredited place like the american biorecovery association And get it done the right way.  You won't be scared of thinking. Oh my god. Did I do that? Right You'll know you did it right if you did the proper training, you know got the proper training So go out there and get to the right at the right place. It's well worth the money And you guys were talking about something go ahead and grab your link tom while I just mentioned this real quick Tom has to put a link up for us But before we ever went live You guys were talking and tom you just asked Sharon So what what do you think about somebody that wants to go out and grab a fogger or grab an electric static sprayer And go out and start cleaning. I like how do you recommend that they go about that and Sharon you said I don't They shouldn't don't do that. That's not good. It's not safe You don't know what you're doing and it's not going to be efficacious So I just want to make sure that people on the call heard that because you guys were saying that offline before we ever went live I think a lot of people even even after this I think a lot of people might think I could do that That sounds fun. That sounds cool. Especially you do make it sound really cool And you're gonna make it kind of sound fun too So Thanks for so much for sharing all this Sharon and just the Some of the detail level of detail that you gave was I mean really I was expecting you to say That you have your people wearing depends in those suits Still they take out a water. She's got them in diapers. I know she does Don't give me any ideas now this come on Okay Cleaning business today. We've got some articles here about coronavirus that if you haven't seen would would encourage you to uh to look at we just posted something yesterday with uh, Joe Walsh's article not articles, but uh, I guess templates for us to do either a press release to Get them get the media involved with with helping us fit some of the some of the gaps in the ppp Or the other as you can send a letter to uh, a congressman or a senator That information is useful. I got some feedback yesterday on that just want to mention that um, the ppp really Designed to help your employees get a paycheck through This you know this tough time and and we understand that but You know, it needs to be done in a way where it's rational for You know the business owner the the economy as a whole and just paying people when you have absolutely no work at all Plus when you've got a unemployment rate of additional months funds coming from the federal government that Makes the compensation higher than what people will be making when they were working full time All of those are incongruencies that that that that need to be figured out. So We're well aware of that this program is for the benefit of our employees, but but but it has to be economically Rational, so that's what what Joe's trying to help us with This is how you subscribe If uh, you aren't getting our newsletters your email first name last name And as we share after every call We've got a a magic secret secret link here that gives you all of our resources that you can access and download By the way, we've got sponsors here if you ever are on our website and In you know, check out some of our sponsors direct mop sales is an awesome company not mentioned But he actually gets a lot of his product from them, but um We're going to go ahead and I'll get a link from from Sharon for the American bio What what's that association Sharon? American bio recovery association bio recovery association Um, and I'll I'll place that here if you guys want more information about it. You can can come back here uh Tomorrow and we can find that I'll go ahead and place a link to Our resource page I don't know if you can see the comments Sharon, but lisa Kirk patrick is saying that she so appreciates your knowledge and that you're awesome. Thank you lisa Again I'm thinking that this is the quietest we've ever seen these people be On one of these facebook lives. I think they are so busy Just taking notes and listening and paying attention that wow, I don't think they even have room to Comment you really uh, Caleb says also this was great. Thank you for this. Caleb pierce awesome Um, and actually, um, heather earlier had said mind blowing Denise had said awesome. Thank you. So a lot of um great comments Bridgette in awe. She says Bridgette randles Um, uh, yeah, I kind of feel like that too.  Yeah, if you don't know what you're doing, right? Right. Heather says no words just trying to process it all I think I think a lot of people are feeling that way. I'm sure yeah So yeah, I again much much appreciated you're doing something that's helpful to to anybody that's in the cleaning business because We're all getting requests to help with uh, COVID-19 cleanup and we need to know To ask the right questions and make sure that we're not Committing to do doing Work that that that we aren't properly trained in in equip I don't have insurance for exactly. Don't forget that. Yeah very very important. So um It's friday So let's uh, let's remember to get some rest take care of ourselves. Uh, this is a long race. We're running I know that uh, our worlds are kind of turned upside down at the moment But uh, we're going to make it through this but uh, we need to take care of ourselves and uh, You know enjoy your weekend and and we're going to be back here. Uh next friday at five o'clock Um, we're going to have more information coming out over the week Monday next monday next monday. What did I say friday friday? No, this is friday Next wednesday and thursday, we're going to be um, doing some some special training We're putting together the program that that that you guys asked us to do on on training for for for how professional house cleaners, uh, should should should be be cleaning during COVID-19 and What we're going to be doing is nothing like what Sharon just shared with you here I want you to hear this to understand what we're not going to be talking about But what we are going to be talking about is what is the proper PPE if you're going to be Cleaning mrs. Jones's house on a on a biweekly basis and the special things you need to be aware of now that You know, COVID-19 is in the community and you know, how do you properly clean and sanitize high-touch areas? How do you keep your yourself clean as a cleaning technician? How do you keep your your clients safe? How do you do the responsible thing within the community? Um, and this is going to be designed for your cleaning technicians So it's going to be wednesday and friday. It's going to be four o'clock We're going to have on both days and it's going to be a two-part class. They're going to be at the end there's going to be um a quiz that that participants can take and You know success for completing it. You'll get a Certificate of completion that will have the employee's name and in your company name on it as well And and again, we're putting more information out this week and giving you more details as to where you can get it But if you can be thinking about getting your cleaning technicians available that they can participate live on wednesday and thursday of next week at four o'clock These are eastern times by the way We're going to be recording it as well and we're going to be putting it You know like in youtube so they can go back and get it get it later as well But uh, you know, we want to make sure that everybody understands You know how to do their jobs responsibly during this trying time be at your job Doing regular maintenance clean in a home or be at your job on the other end of the spectrum doing biohazard cleanup We all need to understand You know what our jobs and panel and what the risks are and how to do it responsibly So we're going to be packing it on the end of residential cleaning, which is the world that that we primarily live in and again That's going to be uh wednesday and thursday of next week anything on mytholist I don't think so. You did good, tom okay Been a long week hasn't that? Yep Everybody on take take a break get some rest. You know, it's even on the cdc website, right? It's one of the recommendations is to make sure you get enough sleep get enough rest It's one of the best things you can do to keep your immune system high So we're not just saying get rest because we want to sleep more Although we do want to sleep more But it's good for you too Okay, well again. Thanks. Thank you so much Sharon. This was really good stuff. Thank you so much You're welcome We'll see you guys monday at five o'clock. Easter. Y'all have a good weekend. Happy Easter. Happy Easter


Footage showing the inspection conducted at the residence of head of Wagner private military company Yevgeny Prigazin has been released. As can be seen from the footage released by the Russian mass media, a large amount of money, including foreign currency, weapons, fake documents, wigs, and a sledgehammer with the inscription's important negotiations on it have been found in the house. The residence that covers a large area has rooms for various purposes as well as a helipad. It should be noted that the inspection time to Prigazin's march with Wagner members to Moscow. It has been reported that the confiscated money has already been returned to Progozin.


Access ERC is about capacity building. In a classroom, students scroll images of forearms. They tape a grid on an arm. They take a photo of the tiny symbols on the arm. Words appear. Access ERC, promoting the participation of people with disabilities in engineering research centers. Cheryl Bergstahler. Access ERC is a project funded by the National Science Foundation. It's actually a supplemental grant to the Center for Sensory Motor Neuroengineering, which is an engineering research center at the University of Washington, also funded by the National Science Foundation. And there are about 15 of these centers across the country. And we were funded to help the other centers recruit and employ and engage individuals with disabilities in everything they do. Rajesh Rao. So we're helping other ERCs train their staff, create accessible websites, collect demographic data, and also ensure that the space and the labs that they have are accessible to people with disabilities. Pam McLeod. I think it's important for ERCs to include people with disabilities. Because when we think about pretty much any problem that any of us are trying to solve, the research has shown that the more diverse group that you have working on a problem, the more interesting and probably robust solutions that you'll get. Words appear. Recruitment and engagement. Develop strategic partnerships, including those with disability and veteran service units. Recruit people with disabilities, including veterans, onto advisory boards and leadership teams. Willie Savine. We've reached out and have partnered with our Veteran Center on campus, so that's a good start. Because the director is very willing to share information about our activities to help us recruit students who might be very interested in being researchers in the lab. Alexis Campbell. It's easy to send out an email or a letter that's saying, you know, we want to look at you. We would like you to apply to our program. Words appear. Communication. Promote disability awareness. Highlight the achievements of people with disabilities. Encourage faculty and staff to engage in disability-related conferences. Delia Sains. And so I think one key message that cannot be underscored enough is the fact that an institution is willing to create the environment that allows for that success. And so how do we put out that message? Well, I think in every brochure that is there to recruit students, employees, in every message on the web that showcases your institution and all that it has to offer, in every message that is delivered by the president, we need to allow information. We need to highlight information that shows where to find connections about universal design, about services to disabled students, about our commitment to inclusion. Words appear. Accessibility of facilities, information, products, and activities. Apply universal design and provide reasonable accommodations. Xifei Chen. We did mentor a blind student before. And I think, luckily, we have a leader, director, and also our staff, a very supportive of the student coming to our lab, because our lab is dealing with high voltage equipment. We provide an opportunity for him to do modeling and really advanced analysis, and which was a very challenging research project. And this student was just wonderful to work with. And he helped us to understand what he needs, what he wants. Shayla Kotadia. When we are organizing events, we try to make them accessible to all. We ask people for their accessibility needs. And I work really, really hard to make sure everybody feels comfortable with whatever they do need. And especially when we do diversity inclusion workshops, because that's the whole point, is that they should feel like they are welcome. Consult with individuals with disabilities in lab and facility design. Review websites, documents, and videos for accessibility. Roy Charles. Right now, we're in the information age. We're disseminating information in a variety of ways.  Devdas Pai. And there's something I can do, some things that I can implement myself as an instructor. I learned about captioning processes, the use of headings. Roxanne Zelen. The website is the first entrance into our program into what we do. And if that population cannot access it, what good is it? Chet Moritz. Given that we are a center that works on sensory motor impairment, it was important that the space be accessible to a broad audience. And not only students with disabilities, but members of the community. So we have members of the community come to our practitioner and user advisory boards attending our research seminars. And so having this wide open space makes it much easier to negotiate whether the users are using an assistive device, a wheelchair otherwise. In high speed, staff rearrange chairs in a large space. Another aspect of this space that we really enjoy is the flexibility in the furniture. We can set it up in many different configurations to engage users. But we can also clear it out of the way if we have an event where many people with assistive devices are present. It's really an element of universal design. Various configurations appear and disappear. Words appear. An inclusive climate. Consider disability as a diversity issue. Provide mentoring opportunities for people with disabilities. I've worked in diversity for quite some time. And sometimes the conversation about diversity can focus very much on one or two particular groups in part, racial minorities and women. And not as much be discussed about persons with disabilities. Engineers are problem solvers. And many of these students bring a different perspective based on their experiences. One type of people will have one type of solution to the problem. So with the different people bringing their different perspectives, we'll have an opportunity to solve the problem in a way that we hadn't thought about before. Words appear. Data collection and evaluation. Collect disability status with other demographic information in application and evaluation forms. Analyze data to determine effectiveness. It is important in all of our evaluation instruments to ask about disability when we're asking students to evaluate how well they've done in an activity or what they've learned or how a lab is working for them. It's important for us to ask if they have a disability so we can see if their experience is different than other students. But it's also important to ask access questions. ERCs are designed to have huge impact in society by solving some of the major challenges in engineering that society is currently facing. And in order to have that kind of impact and to solve these important problems, we need to include every section of society, including people with disabilities in all aspects of ERCs. Words appear. To learn more about how you can incorporate accessibility and universal design in engineering research centers, visit the Access ERC website hosted by the University of Washington. Washington.edu slash doit slash programs slash access ERC. Access ERC is a supplement of the Center for Sensory Motor Neural Engineering National Science Foundation grant number EEC-1028725. Any opinions, findings, and conclusions or recommendations expressed in this video are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of the National Science Foundation. Copyright 2016. Permission is granted to copy these materials for educational non-commercial purposes provided the source is acknowledged. Fade to Black, described by AudioEyes.


I would now like to introduce to you our next speaker who would be talking about why TV is a tough to beat medium. Please I'll give a huge round of applause to the CEO of BART India, Zapat O Das Gupta. Good afternoon. Completely a full place. I mean this is there are so many well you don't get to see a full audience like this. That is the end of August audience at that too Mr. Sharma. I wish I could see a lot of family faces out here. Thank you and thank you. Now I'll thank you. The exchange for media team to invite us to talk here. So my job is simple. I think that's the topic that was given to us. I will try and spend some time next 29 minutes on this. As usual I mean after so many nice scenes, so many nice creatives. I am sorry I will not be able to show you many creatives. We'll have some videos of course but not beautiful creatives like what my previous speaker would have already shown. We all know that the roots of TV are very very deep right. I mean to give it to sir they get into some stag, some of the figures. India has about two 98 million homes. In the last two years it has grown by about 4.2% homes as in homes as a total number of homes that are there in the country. Of which about 197 million homes are with TV. And as you can see from the chart out there that the number of the growth of TV rising in the number of homes that are rising are more than the number of homes overall in the universe. So obviously TV is going through a major growth and it's a very very large number that we all know about. In terms of people TV obviously and since people spoke about a lot of the digital stuff I will also cover some numbers from digital whatever is in the public domain. There are about 836 million people that watch TV today. Compared to this this is official statistics out of TRAI and stuff like that is 450 million people have internet. And the way even now TRAI is defining internet and all of us here will know what I am talking about. It is 512 KVPS and above is what we are talking about. So watching content on the internet available bandwidth in the country is still well whatever you know. So the numbers are large but is it really usable? We will talk about it and we will see it as we go along. One trillion man minutes is what India watches in television or rather in the total video ecosystem. The 93% of that is television and only about 7% of it in today's world as we speak is in OTT content. That's the kind of numbers that we are talking about. That's the kind of differences that we are talking about because of limitations. I think things like geo happening in the country has really changed the paradigm but bandwidth issues are still a very very big issue and I am sure all of us face this within a city like Bombay or Delhi where you can imagine just going out what it would be like. This is how the country is split up. I mean in terms of the kind of penetration of homes statewide as you see the southern most states of Kerala, Tamil Nadu and Kanataka they are the most penetrated TV homes in the country followed by the lighter green ones and the other ones. I think Bihar is the laggard in the whole picture where still it is a less than 30% kind of penetration of TV but rest the country and this has been moving. I mean we have given you two years figures, two years back and now in 2018 and I think things have changed. You can see a lot of color changes have happened but this is the state of things. Regional content is very very big on TV. I think one of the reasons why TV is growing and which is so big is all about regional content. As in when as we have seen even a Netflix has started or Amazon Prime has started putting regional content in their thing. Everybody knows that regional content is something that really drives viewership. I mean it's not just the English and the Hindi that works well. Just some numbers again that's purely television in this case. Some of the local language content is really really doing very very well and these are growth numbers over the last two or two years. As you can see Odia actually tops the growth, this is the growth. Gujarati for example at one time used to be a very Hindi speaking, Hindi watching market. That has also really really grown and we all know what's happening in Marathi, whether it be cinema, whether it be television. There's a huge emergence of Marathi that has language in terms of literature, creative content and stuff like that and it clearly clearly shows there. So around the country this whole thing of writing your own language is really really manifesting in the content and viewership and views. These kinds of content obviously both takes a huge upsurge when it comes to regional content. Compared to that in OTT I think this play is still very very small. I think people have started investing in it but people things like Boichoi in Bangla, a couple of Chennai ones I am also talking about. I mean in Tamil Nadu but I think it will take a long time before that happens and that would actually spur growth in that part of the segment. We all know about this but just a couple of points on what happens in rural India. I mean I think I have spoken about this in multiple odd sessions so I wouldn't spend too much time. I think rural India is where the Indian population is beyond the cities. It's about 70% of the country in terms of population but I think the numbers are still growing. It gets affected by electrification in a big way and how much power is available and also obviously people are watching habits and content very very clearly. But this is what where we are today. TV has a huge headroom to grow. Look at TV. I mean this is 2004 if I am not mistaken. In 2004 we only had 83 million homes having TV and now we are sitting in 2018 we are talking about 197 million homes. This is the way TV has grown over the years and thanks to many many things that have happened in the ecosystem. Thanks to regulations, thanks to tremendous amount of enterprise in the ecosystem and thanks to electrification. This is the way TV has grown. But at the same time I mean we shouldn't be really really happy because at the same time look at this amount of bigger developed countries. We talk about God cutting right in US. They watch 4 hour 30 minutes of television every day. We are still at about a 3 hour 48 minutes now. Look at the numbers in terms of the amount of time that people spend on television. Now I take completely Abhishek's point that and I will come to that which is television did not mean only the linear TV. There are other things also. We will come to that but these are I think linear TV numbers. So just look at that. Content on TV obviously gets amplified. Just a set of numbers for everybody is here is part of the marketing ecosystem. There are 250, 173 and 613. Can you relate which of these three on the left relate to which of the three on the right? Which one is which? Any of you can try. Yeah. Okay. So this is like this. This is the outreach today as it stands today. So both in terms of social media, newspaper and TV. So 613 million people watch TV every day. That's the whole point that I am trying to make. Did you know and I will show you some figures. Some of you may know it. Some of you may like to see it. Take a picture if you want. 100 million people watch GECs every day. Hindi GECs every day. This is the kind of number. It's huge. How many people do you think watched an episode of Nagin? I am just putting out Nagin because it was reading the charts. Nagin 3 rather. Reading the charts for some time. How many people do you think watched an episode of Nagin? Just an episode. 32 odd million. And this is just Hindi, right? This is what we are talking about. Hindi news. As we go towards the election season, you will see more and more charcha on Hindi news. How many people do you think see it? 65 million people every day. So it's a huge, huge number. One of the biggest Indian exports of Indian, what is it called? Movie industry made in what? Seven languages and all that. But one screening, one screening in a Hindi movie channel, got them 43 million viewers. One screening. That went on afternoon. So that's the kind of number that we are talking about. Things of national importance. How many people do you think watched PM's Independence Day speech? One event on one day, live, 123 million viewers. That's the kind of feedback. It's huge. So roughly, this is the number. People watch 3 hours 48 minutes as we speak in 2018. They started about quite a few minutes lesser, two, three years back. Almost 20 minutes or less. So it's going on increasing. 93.4% of people watch TV weekly, and about 73.4% people watch TV daily. So that's the kind of number that we are talking about. So which is a huge, huge number to look at. TV serves all. Somebody, I think Mr. Shama was mentioning, 98% of India is still a single TV market. My hypothesis on this is that TV in India, unlike many of the western world, where people would have multiple TVs in their homes, India will skip that multiple TV phenomenon. In my view, personal viewing or a single person viewing will go into the tablets and the personal devices versus family viewing will always remain a TV thing. India watches TV together. That is also a very, very clear thing that we see. Whether it be soaps, whether it be movies, India loves to watch as a family, the TV together, which is very, very unlike a western culture. TV is of course extremely affordable and convenient in terms of the large masses of people who watch TV. Even today there are 577 free-to-air channels. This is for the government that is there, and you will see some nice action in the next 30 days on this space. There are about 300 pay channels that is there. Even today's subscription is very, very low. Subscription number, affordability is extremely cheap. I am sure you guys know that CRT TVs, even now, I mean non-flat TVs, the good old Dabba CRT TVs, are still at 20% of the country. Sorry, 79% of the country, I am saying the reverse. 79% of the country. Even today, at 4,000 rupees on Amazon in your phones right now, you can buy a CRT TV event today, and that's where the large numbers event today that people use. In terms of penetration, only 20% of rural India, which is the large part of India, is still penetrated by TV. So this is where you will see a lot of growth coming, whereas about 64% of urban India is already penetrated by TV. So still a very, very affordable thing. TV viewership is still growing, and this is some graphs and charts, and somebody from Pakistan, you can't escape graphs and charts here. So this is week-wise from 2015, week 42, when we launched the bar service till now. Just see the total time spent, or rather average time spent in a, followed by an individual, how it is growing, and it is continuously on the rise, driven by good content, number one, and also by electricity availability and power. One trillion man minutes are spent on TV. Any guess how much would it be spent on watching advertising? Man minutes rather, and how much would it be content? Any guesses? Because we do tend to think that there's a lot of advertising, right? This is about 82% will be pure content and about 18% is advertising, which in my view is a very good number, that fact that people watch so much of advertising. This is something being hugely discussed these days, I'm sure you know about it, that pre-digitization, people used to watch just about 12 odd channels, I mean individuals would watch just about 12 odd channels, post it has become 15 in a day kind of a thing, and over a week it is about 35. So digitization has made people sample more channels, and hence you see a lot of more fragmentation, and hence you see so many channels being launched as well, I mean all over the place. Just a point to make HD viewership again has gone, I think has been growing tremendously, especially in the area of sport and movies and GCs, I think it has been especially the last soccer World Cup, we saw the HD viewership zooming absolutely, and that's a healthy sign for the top end of the market, very very clearly. Youth, I mean we all think that the youth doesn't watch TV, they only watch the digital medium so to speak, quite wrong, these are the kind of numbers, 32% of the total viewership comes from youth, as the age group that really watches TV. And what do they watch? Quite a few, quite a dispersion out there, and they also watch mythos and dramas of our sports and all of the stuff, so very very similar to, I would say a bit less on the drama part, but otherwise very similar to a normal watching kind of a pipe. A huge amount of analytics that Bach provides, I'm sorry I'm plugging a bit of Bach out here, really really helps in these kind of insights that we give to broadcasters, and I'll show you a few of them, like for example, absolutely on that day in the parliament when Modi, sorry, Rahul Gandhi, Prime Minister Modi, we can tell you exactly how many people were watching that thing right away, live around the country, which state, how much. So minute by minute, I can give you exactly who was watching what. Now this is a curve where what we are trying to show is the past four weeks, which is the blue curve, and versus around that time and all this happened, how the viewership moved up. So it's a very clear thing that these things, these really really spike viewership. 5.7 million individuals actually watch this hub happen. 5.7, and it's a clear challenge. Any digital medium, if they can tell me exactly a moment like this, how many people they watched, how many people was watching from where, from which city, from which state, please come back and show me. More insights, English news is primarily a South phenomenon and hence you will find English news mostly covers all the events that happen on South, more than the north of the country, because 40% of their viewership comes from South. Very clearly Hindi news has three prime times compared to what we typically know about. Morning is all the Bawas. That's actually a prime time. It's a very big thing in Hindi news. Afternoon is all about the Sahas Bahus. There are lots of those kind of programs. And third, which is in the evening, is really really new. So these kind of analysis really provide a huge amount of stuff that we provide to news channels, actually. This is one feature that we provide where you can, on the left, you can see the video moving with the marker of the red marker and you can see the viewership moving on the right. And you can actually see it. Actually, there's a screen grab where our ad was playing and how viewership goes down in one channel, whereas in some other channel it goes up where some kind of trick was playing. And similarly, you can actually make out whether a kiss works or a slap works, whether a jail track works or whether a marriage track works. Every small thing you can pick up from these kind of stuff. Of course, TV is a preferred medium by advertisers. We all know the numbers, I'm sure, out here. Roughly tracking it at about 3.7 billion US dollars. At this point of time, we expect the numbers to grow like this. Out of the total pie, that is about 8.8 by 2020, about 5.1 should be with TV. This is the kind of expectation that is there. Along with the subscription review, of course, which I missed, which has been also growing but a very small space. Let's see what happens after the new regime and all that. In terms of categories of advertisers, what kind of monies they spend in which medium is very transparent now. And I think that's also very clearly showing that some categories would prefer more TV versus others. And this dispersion will keep evolving as we speak. Sorry. This too is, of course, growing. I mean, there's no two doubts about it. However, what we... Sorry. And these are the statements that we have been hearing in the ecosystem for the last one or two years. And they don't really, really encourage... I don't encourage a lot of things. Abhishek's point on unified metric, I think is very, very important in today's world. Unified metric, band safety, viewability. I think these are things that everybody is looking for answers and happy to get into a deep conversation on this. But these are things which are really, really happening, digital advertising growth, per se. Yes, Mr. Shama also mentioned some things like this, such as Netflix, for example. If they were so big, they used TV in a big way for both of these two big launches when they did. When it comes to Amazon, there's other kind of numbers. There's a kind of advertising that they do on television. So they... I mean, you really, really can't beat TV to really reach out to people. You know, it's like reach medium, which really has no other band. Flipkart, we all know Netflix. TV is a PR medium. I think the present government, in my view, and the ruling party has used it so well, so well. Any event which has Mr. Modi on television, I can tell you the numbers were just sold out, and they know how to use it extremely well. So in terms of a pure communication tool as PR, I think the government knows how to use it extremely well, whether it be Pariksha Pecharcha or any of these big, big interviews to get it out gently or wherever. I mean, I think it has really been done extremely well. Other big, big example, in my view, is GEO, you know, where they have used television as a PR medium, so well. Look at all these events, whether it's the launch of the GEO phone or GEO in the beginning and the 100 million subscriber mark, number of channels which covered the press event, and the kind of million viewers that actually saw it. It's a huge one. Can you imagine how many crores of advertising money they would have spent just by using it as a PR medium? Huge, huge numbers. Every time, I think they come up with it, and it's a big, fantastic use of television as a PR medium. Coming from our two marketers, we have some of them who spoke to us on this subject. So for the first stop was Gauravjit. I think, yeah, will you just play the video? Gauravjit, heads, you need your word. Every medium is critical in how you plan for media, especially in a multimedia world, where digital is also coming in a big way. There's no doubt that TV is a very powerful medium, and there are three critical reasons, especially in India, that it continues to be powerful and will be for some time. Number one, it is the most penetrated medium in the country. Number two, it's still room to grow with around 73-74% penetration. There's still a lot of room to grow for TV. And third, 97% of TV households in India are single TV households, which makes it very powerful in terms of being able to take a message and give it a lot of scale and reach. This makes TV a very tough medium to beat. Yeah. Next was Subha. Subha heads a medium for portraits. She also had something to say. You know, it's actually amazing in the industry that so many people are overriding the effectiveness of TV at times, questioned efficacy with digital coming up. TV actually offers such a vast pool of content, such a diverse set of offerings in terms of number of channels, the kind of content that is available. And besides, it's measurable and offers great arrowhead. Somewhere we need to acknowledge that and the fact that today the TV that we see in our country is a product of around two decades of evolution, both in terms of offerings, content, as well as measurement metrics. And you can actually target an entire family with TV. The kind of numbers that TV delivers is definitely something that we need to acknowledge. And there is a great amount of ROI in that TV delivers. And that makes it a very tough medium to beat. Ankit from Mariko also had something similar today. Say, I mean, it's not a video. So this is what he has said, almost on similar lines. So just to give you some more numbers, how many people does a TV commercial reach? And we made a listing of a few, I mean, tremendous numbers if you really want to see it. Colgate, I think, 754 million as one commercial that it made them reach. And you will see some of your own brands and you will know the numbers and the percentage of the universe how much they would have reached. So this is the kind of coverage that one can really, really generate out of commercials that you run on TV. All eyes on the future. Yes, the future is... TV is also changing. I don't know how many people are using it, but still you have seen... You have seen DTH getting into a huge amount of catch-up mode where you can record and all those PVRs and TVRs have come into the country. The numbers are not so great, but it is becoming bigger and bigger. We don't have an IPTV in this country as much, but a lot of other things have started catching up. The other big thing is interactivity. I don't know how many people actually noticed this. This whole thing of GEO what they did with KBC last year with Mr. Bachchan, which was a big one, where you could play along with the TV sitting in your own living room with your phone. That's something that really, really gave very, very large numbers and GEO has been very happy with that whole experimentation and a lot of more people are talking about it. So TV is also trying to... The good old traditional TV is also trying to do a lot of more stuff and make it much more interactive and make other things happen. Yes, of course, as Vishay also pointed out, that very soon, this big, large TV, the whole thing is about what which screen, whether it's a theater screen or it's a large television screen at your home or it's a small mobile device or a tablet versus which pipe. All these will become completely irrelevant. It will be all about content. We should not be talking in my view after a couple of years of TV, digital and all these kind of things. It will be all about content and how content plays out in what medium, whether you watch a coffee with current on a laptop or on a big screen and through which medium we don't know. It could be through your cable, it could be through your internet but it's all about that same episode of coffee with current. I think that's where it will be. For us, it is as simple as whatever people will see, we will measure it. With that, I will leave. Do we have time for questions or we'll take it later? I'm used to mostly answering questions rather than speaking. Okay, offline. Thank you so much. Thank you.