Thank you for joining us on a brand new episode of 420gms and I think we deserve a Guinness Book of World Record medal because we've gone one minute before time. This has never happened in the history of 420gms. If anything, we say we're coming on a Tuesday and then we end up coming on a Wednesday. But then that's true to our nature and if you've been following us for a long time, then you know, this is our story. Nonetheless, of course, the four of us are back here today. We were talking last week as well on a different subject. But today, we're talking about a subject which we spoke about on Sunday with René D. Singh and Ishwaka Ahmad. And that is the biggest news in Indian football currently with the entry of East Bengal or should I say Shri Sement East Bengal into the ISL for this coming season. Now, if you've seen the Sunday show, then in the Sunday show, we talked to René D. and Ishwaka about how important it is for the club and how important it is for the league. And in the same year, you brought Mohan Bagan and East Bengal into your league setup. Today, we won't talk about that, but today, we're going to talk about the inner workings of this deal. Because up until a long time in this season or in the build-up to this season, it seemed like the door to East Bengal has been closed for the ISL. But then something happened out of the blue. East Bengal found an investor and the doors were made open for them to enter the ISL. As always, we're joined by two very seasoned journalists who know the inside workings of Indian football, Jetty Basu and Times of India, Siddharth Saxena, guys. Thanks for joining us and a very seasoned personality on NewsClick. Siddharth Ani is with us as well. Sir, and if any of you are watching right now, East Bengal fans, Indian football fans, if you have any questions pertaining to this topic, to East Bengal, then please do put them in on YouTube. We'll try taking them as many as we can answer. But if you go off-topic, then it's a little difficult for us to take those questions in our show because we only have a show for two hours. We only have one show for two hours. How will we answer your questions in two hours? Sir, let's start with you, Jadeep. What are the inner workings of this deal? Because after four months, they weren't going to have an entry. Then it started to happen that investors will get it. Then a phase came in that ISL has said that there is so much of a team's league. So for us, that was a shut case that East Bengal is not playing in the 7th edition of the ISL. So how did this turn around? They said that it will be a 10-team league.   Like promises, the rules are meant to be broken. So the rules have been broken. That's the second nature of Indian football. After all, the rules have been said by people who have broken it. So we have nothing to say on it. It is their own rule they have broken. They have not broken anybody else's rule. And see, nobody has officially spoken about it. Not even East Bengal, not ISL, of course they have not. And all India Football Federation, as we know, they had no clue what was happening. Perhaps they came to know when we came to know about East Bengal joining the ISL. Why perhaps? It is like that only. How many bad days have they had? I think a long time ago, not that something new has come. But I think East Bengal was looking for a disparate to have a sponsor. They were looking here and there. And as it happens in India, they approached political power lobby to do something for them. And the Chief Minister of West Bengal was kind enough to arrange a sponsor for them. And speak to the ISL organizers and ask them to accommodate East Bengal. This isn't only. So everything fell in line and so far everything has fallen in line. They have opened a new bid also and I believe East Bengal will be accommodated as the 11th team. And now ISL will be 115 match 2 on it. But sir, before I get Siddharth in to the chat. Shree cement, how did the Nata join Shree cement? Because once the Nata has joined Shree cement, then everything else has fallen into place to get them into the ISL. See again, as I told you Arjun, the Unconfirmed sources said the Chief Minister of West Bengal personally spoke to Shree cement owners. Shree cement, I believe, if what I read in the internet is right, they are the richest people in West Bengal at the moment. Or they are the 14th richest business house in the country and richest business house in West Bengal. So I think Chief Minister have spoken to them and today only I read an interview in which I found that one of the owners of this cement has been an East Bengal member for a long time before. Not that family, not that they were very active, but they had a relationship with East Bengal. And I think on the request of the Chief Minister, they agreed to come on board with East Bengal and nowadays you don't call sponsor, you become investor, become the investors of East Bengal. Siddharth, were you surprised a little bit at least but suddenly you wake up one morning and hear the news of East Bengal joining the ISL just purely because of all that was built up till that news broke. Not really surprised because this was meant to happen in the sense that if things need to be worked out, they can be worked out. That is the other story of Indian football. When you find that there is a need to suddenly wrestle up some kind of like you say investor or sponsor or backer, you'll always find one. I won't say surprises me but what comes through the fool is the fact that these people are always there. You always had investors waiting, you just have a full call away. And the story about Indian football, people saying that we can't run this, we can't sustain that because where are the sponsors? Pirajan Das Munchi, the late Pirajan Das Munchi was always at the top of the affairs in Indian football for the longest time because everybody else who probably had a problem within the Federation and otherwise in the system would say, we have to deal with them, we have to put up with them because he's the only one who gets the sponsors. I mean he's the only one able to get the sponsors in Indian football at that time and if sponsors and investors with such a big deal, it just takes a full call. It's what we've learned again. So surprised. I don't know who's more happy or who relieved the ISL. Who do you think? I think ISL. Obviously ISL is more relieved. They wanted Mohan Bahan. They wanted Ease Bengal. Otherwise sustaining that tournament would have eventually become difficult.  I don't think it works the other way around. Ease Bengal want to be part of the elite as it were. That's aspiration. Fine. That's a good thing. But I would think ISL is the one who's doing the Bhangra at the moment. I think just to take that forward, Ishwak on the Sunday show said a very nice thing and he said now this season can be said as the one season. Now you've inherited two proper football clubs into the ISL and by that he meant two clubs who have their own infrastructure. They have a ground. They have their own dressing room. Like in the MLS when we keep hearing this that they're spending this gazillion amounts of dollars. A large part of that gazillion amounts of dollars to get franchise rights in the MLS is because you have to then stay in the next five, seven years. We are building our own infrastructure, stadiums, so on and so forth. So maybe that now that Ease Bengal and Mohan Bahan have come in. Other franchises hopefully can follow suit and start building their own infrastructure rather than renting it out. What they've been doing now for these last six years. Yeah, but I think that would be one of the more trivial, I won't say trivial, but one of the lesser important issues facing these guys. Like you said, they're making their own rules, they're making their own rules, so you know rules are flexible in this context. So how about if you rent them out or create your own infrastructure, well and good enough. I'm sure they would want to go on that path, but yeah, I mean I don't know what to say to that, but yeah. Okay brother, you tell us about that. Firstly, are you writing a public apology to Ease Bengal? You can put my name there as well, that we were always saying that it's not going to happen. No, it's not going to happen, it's going to happen. No, I think what we were saying was this season might be a little bit difficult. In terms of the conversations that we were hearing and of course we are not privy to what really goes on obviously. But yeah, I suppose for the league to not have that derby situation going on was too much of a risk to take. And I think the fallout of that to avoid, this resulted in this very quick and very sort of, I don't know. It's a bit strange, like Siddharth was saying, if all it takes is a couple of phone calls and all this could have been sorted out much sooner. But this has been going on for a while now. This is no, I mean it's not a secret that they are trying for a long time to get them into the league. Yeah, and I think there was a lot of resistance even from within the club, from within Ease Bengal itself. There must have been those who said, you know, let's wait it out, let's see how things go and all of that. So there must have been some internal discussion going on, whatever democratic process the club follows, maybe that was happening. Because what does happen when these investors come in and Ease Bengal, I've had a series of investors with the UB group. It was called Kingfisher Ease Bengal for a while and then Quest Ease Bengal. And now, I don't know how the name will feature in the whole thing, what the nominator will be. But now with C. Simmons, what happens is that the fans and the members of the club get taken out of the decision making process completely. I'm not sure to what extent they are actually involved today or before today. But the minute you have this sort of one party coming in and putting in a large chunk of money, which is what is the only thing that is ensuring your participation in the league at all, then most of the major decisions, whether it's sporting decisions or otherwise are taken by those people. So it kind of takes away from the club's identity as a club itself in that way, despite the fact that of course maybe it will still be known as Ease Bengal Club. But in that sense, it stops being a club, it's now privately owned or more equal among, there is one party that's more equal among equals. So that's how I see the scenario in terms of the back room situation. But this is for all of you. So prior to this, Ease Bengal and Mohan Bagan would possibly be the example of a club which has the fans investment in it. Now investment doesn't mean money, investment is invested in it in some way or the other. How much was it working? I know you were shunted out of the ISL, so you were practically playing a second division for the last five years. But how much was it working, honestly speaking? What was the growth like? This is basically, Ease Bengal going into the new league is like what I say. It is a completion of corporatization of Indian football, or rather we say privatization of Indian football. They were the last two bastions of public clubs in the country, big public clubs. There are small, small public clubs around, but now they have also been eaten into it. I'm not saying it will be bad for Indian football, it may be good for Indian football. But the thing is over. It is like ONGC and State Bank of India being privatized. It is like that. Two of the India's biggest or BSNL and ONGC have been privatized. It is like that. So now the thing is that in Indian football, you have to only think big, with an inverted comma big, PIG big. Because you can't play Indian football if you don't have 100 crores. You have to have investor on board, on table. Otherwise, nobody is even ready to talk to you. They are talking about everything is mixing up at the end of 24, when the promotion and relegation will start. Just before our conversation began. So they are saying so far. So first of all, I was telling Siddharth about it. First of all, the talk about relegation has come from a source who has no power at all. It has come from certain all-in-livable federation official who has no say in it. Whether there will be relegation or promotion, whether there will be league or no league. So you are saying there is a question mark right now on that 24. I think there is a huge question mark. Promotion maybe, because you need to increase teams because you have to go into that 27-27 match thing of AFC. Everything is there. But relegation, I sincerely doubt. Even it comes from very, very senior officials. I sincerely doubt there will be relegation. No way there will be relegation. Because the moment the talk of relegation will come, then immediately the theory which will be put forward, I can tell you today in 2020 what will come in 2024, that the second division is not ready yet. The gap between the first division and second division is huge. So let's not go for it. That's all. And those who have put money on the table, it has happened in Indian football before also. It's not that only ISL is doing it. Everybody has done it. Then they will come here. We didn't give money. We gave it on time. Why do you have relegation? It has happened with JCT. It has happened with 10-4. You are saying that when the job is open, then the two franchises will come down. Because the system tells you that that is the way it works. So there is a possibility that those two franchises will say, why should we stay here now? Because suddenly we are coming to this thing of one. At least in their eyes. So there is a possibility that they might disband and leave also then. Yeah, that's what I say. So that's what I say it is coming from very, very senior officials that relegation is coming in 24. I am very, very skeptical. See these franchises were not created to go down in terms of in a regular footballing cycle, relegation. None of these franchises that were created out of nothing in a way, they did not come in with the intention of, oh, we have not done well this season, so let's take the drop. So they will go down picking and screaming. It won't be a very pretty sight to watch them do that. So yes, I agree that the idea of relegation will really be a, it doesn't seem to look viable with the ISL philosophy as it were. I think whether Mr. Trick and a serious trick is that for a large parts of this league, you've been trying to shun the iLeague away by saying you're a competitor, so let's shun you away as much as we can. Now if you were to help the iLeague grow with you, that gap possibly would not have been that big. Now you've grown the gap so much that suddenly the thought of an investor in the ISL who drops or gets relegated wants to come to the iLeague. He'll be like, where are we going? Because suddenly we might not even have that. The fear is probably too far because if you let the iLeague prosper alongside the ISL, chances are that iLeague would grow bigger in terms of quality, in terms of its game. The last time we spoke of the world of iLeague has a greater possibility of potential because that's what we've been doing all this while. So all in all, I worry greater for the iLeague at the moment with what's happened. He's been getting kicked upstairs in a sense. But if you allow the iLeague to prosper, which they don't want to, they want to keep it at arm's length. You seriously believe, Siddharth, that iLeague football level is better than the ISL? You believe in that, even though the best in the country are playing in the ISL? You have a crop of players, a generation of players at that time who are good enough to be playing them because they get paid more there. That's perfectly justified. But if you see the last four or five seasons of the iLeague, it's stood on its feet. It's grown by despite its very meager backing support and stuff. Football grows like this only. I still believe I'm a sound very out of date with this view of investors and privatization and 100 crore club and all that. But at the same time, football grows like this only. You give them half the money to play. So if you play better football without the HDTV telecast. I would think. That's what football has been in the country. You create something out of there and say, this is better and let's follow this pattern or this model. The other one which was there earlier, well, it doesn't measure up. I find that argument hard to pick. So that's the reason why they keep the iLeague at arm's length. I also just... Your smile was this big. Your smile was this big when Siddharth was saying that. Sir, your time is up. One, two, three, go. No, just on the point that you were making Pandit about taking the iLeague along on whatever this trip is. Yeah. The point is, I don't know too many examples of countries or systems where there are two leagues. And the more we talk about merger, the more we say that it's the first division and the second division. So if you look at England, which probably is the most watched football league, sort of club football in this country, the most popular club football, the English football league structure includes all the clubs from the Premier League down to the, I think, is it the third or the fourth division? Yeah, so whatever, 17 or 90 clubs, everyone that plays in the FA Cup, essentially, all those clubs are member clubs of the same league structure, which is very different from, let's say, the US, the MLS, where you have the MLS, which is one entity, and then you have other leagues which are going on separately. So there's no relationship between the two. The argument could be that why should, like Siddharth was saying earlier, I have come in and bought a franchise or created a franchise in the ISL to play specifically in this tournament, not to play football. If I wanted to play football, I could start a club in my community, in my locality, in my village also. My intent is not to play football. My intent is to participate in the tournament known as the Indian Super League. And that is the deal that I've done. So for sure, when relegation, if relegation becomes a reality, and if any of these franchises, or anyone for that matter, why franchises, anyone who's joined the ISL now, I'm assuming they are at the same level. They're sitting at the same table. So whoever is in that position of being theoretically relegated will, of course, kick up a first shout, scream, do all of that. And in the end, I don't think, I don't know how that body also, what its decision-making process is, because they are very opaque. Transparency is not in their DNA at all. So we do not know how things are decided when they get together to take a call on things pertaining to the league structure, the decisions, and such, such. But if there is a voting process, I also don't see other leagues, other clubs, or other franchises voting in favor of relegation. Everyone will be like, no, why? Let's not. If I can add here, the other reason why I fear for the I-League is also this, you know, that 100 Rock Club is a very glamorous club. Everybody would want to be a part of it. So someone like Real Kashmir with all its symbolism would like to be a part of the I-League. So they're making no bones about the fact that sooner or later they would want to be playing, whether they get invited or they get promoted is a different thing. Why do you think that Gokulam, for all their very interesting glitz that they can do on social media and their very good fan base, would not be lewd away to the IS, you know. So very soon what you have in the I-League is the good clubs ending up closed, or the worst cases are becoming what they call feeder clubs. That is a very unfortunate truth of Indian football. The Northeast clubs, the good ones, they just simply fold up and they become, you know what? Oh, they become the feeder club. We are supplying players to franchises in the other tournament. What is the ambition left for the players coming out from that region, you know? Those things are something we need to look at. Because usually your more number of clubs, the Federation has to look after the larger number of clubs which are in the second tier. And if you don't protect them, if you don't take care of them, it's going to be a very shallow, very hollow kind of a structure, which may not sustain for too long. If I may, now that we've been going for a few minutes and we have achieved some sort of critical mass, people have tuned in and started watching. Not bad. On a Wednesday. Love to you guys. Much love to you guys. But Pandit, if you can do a quick recap of the whole how the deal went down just for those who joined in late. Yes, because exactly. It's like you read my mind because I was just going to say that we had come here to talk about the deal of East Bengal. But we are talking, except for East Bengal, we are talking about everything. So we are taking the car back, you know? Because Jai Deep Sir, you have talked about the deal. Now this is a very big decision because this is involving one of your biggest clubs, not someone who's been born post-2014, but someone who's been along for the last 100 years. So what role did the federation have to play in this as far as this deal going down? I don't think they have any role to play. So far they haven't played any role in it. They were bystanders, mute spectators like I and you were. Once, I think it was one day when we got some Friday morning, we woke up in the morning and read in the newspaper that the East Bengal I think it happened with the same with them also. So they have absolutely... I don't know how it happened, but you see, just you look at things. When East Bengal's investors were announced, then what happened? Who held the press conference? The press conference was held by the chief minister of the state and where it was held at the state secretaryate. Who else were present? The present where East Bengal officials, obviously they were present and who else were present? The officials of the ISL, the AFF marketing partners, an official from the AFF's marketing partner, not exactly from the marketing partners, but a company which is a part of the... who are also part of the marketing partner, but did you find any AFF official there? Did you find any AFF statement in the next 24 hours? It's a photo op, sir. At the end of the day, if you look at it objectively, it's only a photo op. So whether you played a part or not, a photo op doesn't tell you if you played a part. And no, it was not exactly a photo op. The chief minister was very gracious. She called everybody to speak. Even we had... Kalanbabu, come, please have a look at the video. Kalanbabu, come, please say something. Then he called that marketing partner. People come forward and say a few things, but nobody invited the AFF officials. So I don't think what... coming back to your question, I am not here to really bash up what AFF did. Coming back to your question, you said what role AFF has to play. I don't think they have any role to play. That a team which was playing in the iLeague has one fine morning has moved to ISL. That they were saying from the day one that this iLeague is going to be a 12-team or 11-team tournament. It has suddenly become a 11-team tournament. That they were talking that from the day one that we will have a 132-match iLeague, now one team has suddenly gone. We had no idea and they also had no idea. But if I have to believe my sources, they had no idea. Jairi... One second. Sorry, just one thing. Talking about role play, I also have a role to play. Because sister-in-law is in the chats. She has said, Hi, Pandit. Hi. Sorry, back to you. Sorry. No, no, that's cool. Jairi, what is the sort of reaction that you're getting out of people who are running or who are in roles in the AFF that have to do with the league? Whether it's the iLeague office bearers or the league committee, what is their response been to losing, essentially, because the iLeague is still a property that is theoretically owned by the All India Football Federation. I think, of course, it's owned by them and run by them. Right. So, losing East Bengal Club, how have they reacted or what has been their sort of response to it? I think they have put up a, what you call it, a very brave front. Taken it in their stride. They were like, I have to go next year, because it's been a year. What difference does it make? We were making the 11 team, we were making the fixture, what's the problem with that? Sir, tell me one thing, this is something that you've taken out very well. Do they not feel sidelined that here we are, we are the federation, but we barely hold any decision making power? I know you've signed on that MIR yourself. But at least in the inner sanctum or the workings of the AFF, and I'm not saying official word, I'm saying unofficial word, with the so many hardworking people, there are many hardworking people in the federation, sir, who work tirelessly. What is the vibe you get when these things happen? Do they not feel sidelined? I have two things to say about it. First, what I said that they are putting up a brave front. And secondly, they are used to it. It has been happening for so long. It's been happening for so long now. So they are resigned to take it, actually, because they know Indian football will now be run by this man. If you say it on their face, they are upset. So let's not say it on their face. Keep quiet. I think I lost my video. So now with renewed Wi-Fi energy. Can I just say one thing? Just one thing, sorry Sadat. After we've of course done the show, last night our brother, he has written a very sweet mail to ask for an interview with Mr. Egosty match.  Any time soon. You should do the... Are you now more important than what AF officials feel? They feel bad or good doesn't matter. It simply doesn't matter. Even if they feel good, it's very good. If they don't feel bad, it doesn't matter. The thing is that what E-swingle fans feel. And overall, see fans feeling at the moment, Arjun, we mostly get from the social media. At least that's what we try to believe, that whatever social media is saying is right. But we have to see what the E-swingle fans, overall, because E-swingle fans is not one or two or a hundred. They have millions of fans all over the world. What some of them are feeling? I think everybody is keeping their fingers crossed and waiting for two, three seasons to go and see what exactly come out of it. Like I said, like I told you Arjun, it is the final nail on the privatization of Indian football. Whether good will come out of it or bad will come out of it. That is only time, because at least I cannot say when the time will... Sorry Sadati, you were saying something. No, I just wanted to add on the federation thing. They wanted to be sidelined, so they're sidelined. Simple as that. They like to stand and watch, to use a very... They're the best, they're the fastest, they're the quickest at calling for disciplinary committees and disciplinary action. But enough for players and clubs, they did this, this, there and that. When it comes to iLeague clubs, when it comes to... It's not a thing, the past is there. The larger idea, the larger context, this is fine. What can we do? I think it's the fact that they always keep saying because we are short of money, which is every federation's story. So our hands are tied, what can we say? The other people are showing the intent and you can't... I'm sure they don't want to fight that, but you can't fight that. So I guess that's what's happened. They are the disinvestment managers of the sport in India. Surprise, surprise, sitting on top is Mr. Prof. Pate. Yeah, yeah, I didn't take any names. No, no, yeah, we all know he's the president of the Orangia Football Federation. That's what the federation has been doing.  It's fine because that's their job. You better be doing it well. Of late, one can say that disinvestment has been there, breaking it down and selling it in bits, the entire structure. I think that's the thing. And they wanted to be sidelined. We also faced with, I think, a bit of a dilemma in that I'm talking now about the professionals that are employed by the Orangia Football Federation. They are employed by the Orangia Football Federation and they perform specific roles as per their job descriptions. But who pays their salary? As in where does the money come from to pay their salaries? And therefore, where do their loyalties lie? So what is a fight worth having? What is a fight not worth having? You're talking about being sidelined or not. At the end of the day, I suppose the relationship between the Federation and its commercial partner is one of some sort of synergy. They are essentially agreeing. There is no difference in the opinion of one party versus the other. Otherwise, we would have heard about it. We would have seen more sort of enthusiastic, passionate discussions between these parties and there would have been somebody proposing a different model. But none of that seems to be going on, which means that it's, again, this is an assumption and I'm sure there will be individuals within the structure who will have different points of view perhaps. But overall, it seems to be the case that everyone is, as far as the decision makers are concerned, whether it's the commercial partners and those who are deciding for the ISL or the AFF in general. Everyone seems to be on the same page. Do you guys think that's all accurate? I don't know whether they have a choice to be... I won't say dissenting, but to have a contradictory opinion, I don't think so. I'm sure Jenny will bear me on that. I don't think they... About what? Probably a difference of opinion on how things are headed. On anything. On any subject. See, different opinions only come when you have an opinion itself. When you do not have an opinion at all, how the difference will come up. Because you have agreed to raise your hands from day one. You enter the field by raising your hands that I have already lost by five goals. It is like a polo match. You are handicapped by five goals when you come to the ground. Isn't it? So I don't think there will be a difference of opinion because one party, I don't want to say which party it is, has no opinion at all. They're eager to lap up whatever the other party has to say. See, the East Bengal going into the... Whose league is the new league?  Yeah, of course. There's no doubt about whose league it is. I mean, it is clearly stated whose league it is. Then who will decide who will play? The I-League was your league. Why didn't you protect it? The I-League was your league. It was your creation. It was a novel creation. It was a brilliant novel creation. You started the NFL, you realized that we got to follow the ASC things about all those regulations. Let's create a professional league, the I-League. It was a brilliant idea. You should have protected it. You run a sport in what is basically a footballing backwater, like it or not.  Now, your job as a federation is to take care of that, to protect it. You just step back and say it's their league and it's okay for them for our creation, our invention to be trampled upon. Then fine, let them all join the bigger club. I'm sure all the I-League clubs are kind of in a way aspirational for the bigger tournament. I don't say bigger in terms of standard, but in terms of scale and in terms of patronage. Siddharth, at that time. Also in terms of what the ladder is, if you have any aspirations in competitive sport, then it's obvious that you would like to go up. Whether you can sustain yourself or not. I mean, what you're trying to say is that there is this, you're giving it this, I would say legitimacy, but you're giving it this viability that it's a step up. I'm talking about a different philosophy where the other clubs also probably are lured by the idea that we can do what probably he's been going to move on and have done. Invest and allow, probably get a thing and then move on. Or probably why would some club like Real Kashmir, which say that they don't have too much money going for them sponsors and they have a hard time, yet look for that, look ahead for that dream. It's surely not a footballing one. So what is the, and they are very aware of their own symbolism within the football context in India. A team from Kashmir, they've got this strange story, it's got this following. And they would like to be in that, the team with a special appeal and story. It's a different kind of identity. But as much as we say about investment and all, at the end of the day in an environment which is not thriving for football, at least financially or self-sustainable, if I may say, then the sole model of wanting an investment is so that you can become a self-sustainable club and you don't have to, you know, you don't have to do that. That is the whole point. You're too big, you're too good, I lead winners when Mohan Bagan was not winning and Bangalore was not being the I lead with the British Club. We're small sustaining clubs, they were neighborhood clubs. You know, Icewall gets money from localities. They're locality clubs in Icewall. And as well, I say, it's not even the biggest club in Mizoram. You know, the other clubs which have greater support, greater patronage, greater fan base. So the idea of sustainability or sustaining is what? I mean, it's only a pre-condition.  And standards I don't mean the game.  Absolutely. Investment is not important. It is necessary. The game has gone so big. At the same time, we have examples. We have many examples of teams who have sustained themselves and it's fine. But you also have examples of many clubs going bust. You also have many examples of people citing we don't have money to run our teams. If you have an Icewall, I agree. I didn't say anything. You have ample of examples of guys not doing it as well. Exactly. So that's where one phone call away story becomes all the more painful, you know, that you just had to make a call and here it was done. All these years you just had to make a phone call. It's what I'm trying to say. There is money. There are people willing to come forward and help if they're told. And they should be told is what I'm trying to say. Simply not told, not have to just join a new idea. Also, I mean, we've seen in the case of East Bengal itself, you don't need to go any further than that. How these investors, et cetera, don't necessarily add any sustainability to the program. Because like they choose when to come in, they can also choose when to leave. And there's really nothing holding them on except maybe a piece of paper or another phone call. You know, so there's nothing to say that two years down the line or one year down the line. I talk about investor. I talk about investor. Yeah. Yeah. Just on the point of that, that it making things more sustainable. I don't think in fact, it does even make things more sustainable because again, this is, this is an investment that is coming from somewhere else. So it's not within the ecosystem that this value is being created. It's, it's a, it's a false sort of investment that is coming in from outside. Similar to how we've seen investment in European football coming in from various, various parties from across the globe. Right. So it is an, if we are looking to create like just to go on. So that's point about India being a relative obscure footballing nation with not much, much really going on on a global scale. If we are looking to create an environment which sustains itself, it cannot be done by bringing in like, like Jerry was saying the number one biggest corporate entity in West Bengal. That, that means, you know, on day one, you are going right to the top of this capitalist food chain to, to find your partners and friends. So I don't think long term may be sustainability. But you never know. See, you. You're just saying just like just like when they left before that contract exactly and that's a good point. Actually. This was really alarming, you know, and the way they just, this was the hands of it. There should be some checks and balances. But a big part of it, Siddharth was because of the club people. No, a big part of it was because of the club people as well. And the relation was really sad. A lot of this thing has to, you know, that's why the Federation needs to be forceful about a lot of things. There should be definite proper checks and balances. You must, this can't go on this.  And Jerry, I think we'll agree that in this case, I don't think the investor would, would, would leave because there's there's been a political maneuver of sorts happening. So in that sense. So that's it. I don't know. But you have to ask the fans what they think, you know, how it would go. Yeah, and I think there are a bunch of people who are tuning in and asking questions and making comments. Can I say since Siddharth was bringing this in, see a major reason for a big investor coming into the ISL at least. And I agree with the fact that they're not coming in for footballing reasons. At least unconfirmed sources. Lots of people have said there's a major reason for these big corporate houses to come in is because you're getting a door in the biggest corporates in the country if not amongst the world. Right. So football is a small part of it. You have saying okay football is a part of it, but I'm also getting a door in with you to sit on a table with you and thereby I can do what else whatever I could do I could grow my business and so on and so forth. So that is one of the reasons why a lot of these investors are coming in and and I completely agree. The AFF should be putting it down or the people are running the league should be putting it down that like like Pune when Pune left. Right. Their deal was that if you leave, you have to find someone in Hyderabad. Give it over to someone in Hyderabad. I know even that was a big issue, but at least you're giving it over to someone to carry on the franchise, even though the name has changed and so on. And the franchise is still in Hyderabad because Pune is still going through some trouble there. But that is the way it should be. You can't just suddenly say, it was very nice knowing you because then if you leave them in year four then you're leaving them even way worse than what they were when you joined hands with them. Go on sir. I can't hear anyone. I thought Siddharth was going to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. So, yeah, I think that's that's why I keep saying that we can't emphasize enough that the Federation needed to be more forceful and robust about, you know, their voice, not just what can we do, it's not our game. Now, when you stand up and say what can you do, then why are you the Federation? You lost that battle way back in 2010 when you signed that agreement. Yeah, you did so. And when we were, I mean, we've seen the agreement, nowhere in the agreement has it written that there's a stipulated time for an investor to stay. It's not specified. No, no, no, what the agreement says is that all decisions will be taken by whatever entity it is that owns the rights. So, AIFF does not have a leg to stand on in terms of decision making. So, and this is why we, those of us in the press who were questioning this move way back in 2010. This is what we were questioning it based on that you have you completely removed yourself from the equation. And the job of the football of the AIFF as the Federation, just as the job of the BCCI, can you imagine the BCCI saying, Bhai Arjun aaja, IPL kholle, aur fir jo mazligar, aur wo tera hai. Soch satte aap aur hme thode paise dedin a end of every year. Look at this stuff. Kochi tuskers ka kya hoa? The point is IPL has a governing council, whatever, whatever. The IPL is the biggest money earner for the Board of Control for Cricket in India.  There is some accountability that it's held to the office bearers of the BCCI. I don't know exactly what the working process is. I'm sure we have seniors here with us who have covered cricket more closely and are more aware of these things and can perhaps enlighten us on these subjects. I think the decision making is still very inward, even if it's the IPL, the decision making is still very inward. It means that the decisions that are taken by the IPL are still keeping the IPL in mind. The only difference there is that the people who have made the IPL are the Federation. Yaha pe kya hai, the people who have made the ISL are not the Federation. The Federation has been shown this slide and this slide and they said, okay, sir, where is the paper? Let us sign it over. That is the difference. The IPL could not have happened without the BCCI. In this case, it happened because the IPL, for whatever promise it said, it would have gone ahead and had the BCCI and not said, you know, yeah. See how protective they are even of the X players that they don't let them go play outside in the leagues because they want to put in the IPL so bad. But here is a different case scenario. Please come and take our teams, our clubs, which have probably served people and the board for so many years now. Recently, there was this Federation official who said that, you know, he was talking on why so many clubs are shutting down. He says, so what for each 10 clubs at the shutdown? Yeah, yeah. That's a very callous way to actually look at things that you're okay with even 10 shutting down. Worry about that. Why look at the Mirage where you have 40 coming up and with no guarantee of how long they're going to stay, you know, football clubs keep warming and coming up. But that doesn't mean that you're okay with 10 shutting down. You have to worry about that. That's a bigger worry. I'm going to take a few comments, guys, and then Jaydeep sir will get back to talk about East Bengal and not the Federation. This is Deep Tankshu Sarkar. This is for you. Sorry, we lost the attack. I couldn't hear you. Is that you saying something? No, I'm fine. Deep Tankshu Sarkar is saying no notification again literally searched for your life. Sayak is saying the same thing. You have to put in some effort to get something. What's the notification for? YouTube, please write to YouTube. Ask them why they don't send out our notifications when we do lives. Absolutely. Yeah, because we've been trying to ask them this question for a long time. Why we have people who are voluntarily subscribed. We have not asked anyone to put a gun to their head to subscribe to the channel. They turn notifications on by their own voluntary action on their phone or whatever device they use, but notifications don't go out. So it's something that you should take up with YouTube and not with us. Sir, Jaydeep sir, this question I'll ask you if you want. Aakib Khan, he said what went wrong with the USL group bit. Is there any idea about it? No, not at all. I have absolutely no idea. What happened with the USL? What happened? I have absolutely no idea. I'm not privy to any such information. Siddharth, any idea about the USL group bit? I don't know. Okay, so sorry Aakib bro, we don't know about it. Swas, I guess FSDA never confirmed that there will only be a 10 team league. Then there is cancelled. True. Then of course, a lot of people are saying channel hollow, channel hollow. Then I'll ask you, Jaydeep sir, after Mohammedan, which club will be the best from Bengal to come into the ID? This is actually a question now because of that, once again you don't know how the rules will play out. Because only two are playing, so if Mohammedan doesn't come, then another team which can come is Bhavanipur FC. It's simple because only two teams are playing. So there is no option for the third team anyway. Bhavanipur is a solid team, they're looking good for the second division? Yeah, they are almost like Mohan Magan's B team because it is being run by Mohan Magan's previous owners, I would say. Previous, those who used to run Mohan Magan's both family, they run Bhavanipur club. So it is almost the second team of Mohan Magan for the moment. I think they are also training at Mohan Magan's ground at the moment. So it's a good team, they have some good foreigners, they have taken some good players. So it's a second division is going to be very very interesting affair. But it's always very tough, it's very difficult to play the second division. This time it's even more difficult because you have a total of 10 matches. In the last two teams, you have to play 4 matches. If you lose the first match, it will be very difficult. It is like a knockout tournament league, isn't it? If you lose the first match, it will be very difficult. So it will be very difficult. Jaydeep sir, just one more question from Aditya, sorry. Go ahead. I was saying that it's funny how moment of sporting comes back into focus because there is no big name, established big idea, old idea in the Indian football. So once again you turn back to minority club, supporting a marginal game in that way. Sorry. Aditya has earned a lot of money. Can I make a joke? Sure brother, this is the whole joke about the show. Siddharth, your room was telling you that your connection is unstable, right? If you play for more than 6 months, it will become personal attack. Jaydeep sir, Aditya Vijay Kumar is asking, will East Bengal not winning the I League ever haunt them in their illustrious history? Will it matter as much? It should haunt them, haunt their fans. At least it will haunt me. It will haunt me. See East Bengal is not a football club, it is beyond something. You ask me to talk about East Bengal. You ask me to talk about East Bengal's success. I can talk for 5 hours alone. You take out a video, I will talk substantially for 5 hours. So at the moment I am very afraid about what will happen to East Bengal. Now everything looks very hunky-dory, isn't it? Everything is hunky-dory.  But again I want to wait for 2-3, 2-3. See what East Bengal is today, that their management had to run a delta skilter to get a sponsor. Because it remained a public club. Because fans were having pressure on them. Everybody was having pressure on them. So that was the beauty of East Bengal and Mohanmagan both. But at the moment both are gone. They are now owned by private people. So the connectivity of the fans, which is at the moment is quite major. And one of the major force behind these two clubs becoming very big institutions. I sincerely wish this connectivity remains in the future also. Because the basic structure of the club has changed. So once it has changed, the basic structure, a lot of things automatically changes. Sir, would you not agree that investing in a Pune City FC or in a first-time league, as opposed to investing in a East Bengal or Mohanmagan, the people who are investing in it will realize that a large part of why this tradition and this institution, as we call it, is because of the fans who love it. So they must do all that they can, so that they and their investment will only amplify at the end of the day. The investors are getting the full force. Arjun, I think we will realize, my question is will they respect it? That is the thing. On the last 10 years, what Siddhant was saying at this time, a few minutes ago, in the last 10 years, I don't want to specify then it will be different to a debate and it will create bad blood. But we have seen lots of things in Indian football has been disrespected. I am saying it with a clear conscience. Lots of things have been disrespected. So will this be respected? You were saying about realization. Everybody realizes, knows it, but will they like it? Will they respect it? I am not talking about East Bengal or Mohanmagan sponsors or any particular investor. I am not trying to bring them into a narrow focus angle. But I think that post 2014, pre-2014, pre-2010, there was Indian football. And it had a lot of things to respect about. I hope people will realize that. That's what I mean to say. I think the big question now is that with their entry into the league, will their voice be as big as it used to be before coming into the league? And by that, I mean Mohanmagan and East Bengal. One of the positives, and we briefly touched on this earlier, when we were talking about the ADK Mohanmagan merger and Mohanmagan entry into the ISL, is that we hope that that will happen. Because these two entities are sort of, they predate the league. And they have this very strong following across the world. Like on this small chat, there are people joining from all over the country and even from the US and places like that. So they do have a very strong and a very vocal supporter base. And hopefully if the connection or the connect between the fans and the club is maintained, and the voice of the fans continues to be something that is valued and respected by those that are running the club. Then I think that definitely we will see more robust or at least more engaged conversations happening within the ISL structure, if not outside. Because everyone has now paid up, right? So as soon as you are in the club. Stag entry. Yes, no, I am talking about press club or HV club. All the members are equal. So hopefully we will see that. So at least off the pitch, the conversation should become a little more interesting and engaged. I will ask the same question to Siddharth because we lost your connection a bit. Prior to ISL, so pre-2014, the voice of East Bengal and Mohan Bagan, that weightage, you suppose that we get a little diluted now. Do you think that they have joined the ISL or you suppose that voice will remain as big as it is? It's like the same idea which Siddharth said, club entry, you enter your club. But as a new member, you... We seem to have lost Siddharth. So I think if they are not okay, I will take some more comments. Aditya Narayan has spammed us by saying, Ani Bhai looks like Mehrajuddin Wadhu.  Then Jai Deep Sir, this one is for you. Shivraj Barode is saying, Jai Deep Sir, till the time relegation and promotion starts in 24-25, things will change. Many new faces will come. Today's legends will be replaced by new legends. That always happens. And I sincerely wish what this gentleman says comes right. But as I said at the start of this conversation, I have serious doubts about promotion and relegations. And I maintain my stand. Already previously I have explained why you have serious doubts. So I don't need to explain it. But the AFC endorsing it means nothing? AFC maybe, see, first of all AFC is the Asian body and FIFA and AFC has a very good thing. They don't interfere too much into the running of the National Association. Because they think the National Association is the best judge of how to run their football, which is right also. So I don't think if they change their stand, with the current stand of promotion relegation after four years, and come up with reasons which AFC might think is valid or AFC is meant to think is valid, then it will remain what they think about it. After all, we are running our football. AFC has nothing to say as long as it is doing well. Neither do they have the wherewithal to get involved. The last time when we had contacted the AFC in terms of getting in touch with the ethics people, when there was allegations of match fixing going on. Tell us the reply, sir. The reply was exactly the same. We don't interfere in the operations of the internal federations. So you should ask your federation what they are doing. I am saying this because now that you have aligned with the AFC competitions, there are certain rules and regulations you have to follow to be able to play in those AFC competitions. There are some guidelines, not much else. Some of these things like we were saying about the 27 game minimum and all those kind of things. Relegation promotion is also there. Relegation promotion, yeah, sure. But again, relegation promotion, I don't know. And we also have to very seriously consider where we stand in terms of the continental scenario as of today. Yes, okay, we want to play in the Asian Champions League but realistically, is the club from India even going to qualify for the main rounds? I don't seriously doubt very much. Respective, you are playing the competition. Yeah, so playing all of the guidelines. I mean, it would be interesting and we can do a separate conversation on this where we bring in some clubs and get their perspective on how much they want to even participate in Asian competitions. Because there could be a scenario where some of these clubs or franchises might be of the opinion that playing in Asia is just an added cost and it doesn't add anything because end of the day, is that game even broadcast in India? Are the fans of that club even able to view that game? Do we have travelling fans who are willing to go to Iran and Korea and wherever these matches might happen, Bangladesh, the Maldives to support their teams? So we're a long way away from, I think, continental competitions making any difference to our club sides, frankly speaking. And historically, also, we're quite inward looking. We don't have much meaning in what's going on outside the world. So what we decide to do, that's what we'll do. So AFC, it's nice to have friends in the AFC who make exceptions for you who put you in committees and allow you decision making powers or whatever it might be or add legitimacy to your program, whatever your program might be. But beyond that, I don't think the AFC holds too much of a... If anything, the India's vote in the FIFA and AFC context holds more value for the people in power at the AFC than vice versa. I'm going to back. I'm going to ask you guys. Okay, yeah, sorry.  Yeah, I want to add to Sadanth's point about the AFC thing. I don't think many people in the ISL, the franchises are very clear or aware of what entails within the Asian competitions. Yeah, we seem to have lost. Sadanth, hopefully you'll come back. Jedeep, this is for Jedeep sir from Sayak. I think promotion will be easier since it will be on merit after 21-22. I don't think you've got that correct, buddy. However, yes, sir, I agree with you. Relegation is tough due to commercial reasons. So yeah, so the people who are following the game are also kind of having... Promotion is no problem. He's right. More and more teams will come. It might go to 16 teams. Promotion, I don't see any problem. But for the relegation, I have my doubts. Whoso ever said it? Jedeep sir, you're fan favourite here in the chat because Sunil Kumar is also saying, Jedeep sir, what is the deal between East Bengal and Shree cement? Do they have sporting rights or not? Yeah, I think Shree cement have all the sporting rights of East Bengal including football cricket. Because East Bengal last year made a very strong cricket team last year of which they alleged their previous investor did not pay 92 lakhs for that. That's what they alleged. I don't know how far it is. So they have sporting rights of everything. As what I heard from a very, very senior AFF officials that East Bengal is having 24% of the share with them and the Shree cement or the investors will have 76%. And two members in the board of directors. Two members in the club. Two members in the club. I think they are making 8 or 10 members. Of course, see, if you have 80% of the share, you will have 8 out of 10 in the board. That's very logical. Pavneet Pani is saying, Jadip sir, we love you. Then Siddharth, how about you take this one? So I'm going to say, since we're talking about single ownership of clubs and while we're saying yes, here are the demerits that it might be an issue if they leave or they might not respect your club. There are examples of GSW and Bengaluru. There are examples of Tata and Jamshedpur. Recent examples. The very recent examples. What Jadip said earlier that pre-2010, pre-2014, a lot of things were disrespected, which is true. You can't toy with identity. You can't create an identity over something else and then claim it as your own and say, well, this is how it should be now, it should be there. I'm sure the exceptions, GSW are very well meaning in what they do. In the larger thing about sports, Tata has always been like that. But in a larger way, the people, I don't think they are in it for the football. As much as they are in it for their own visibility and exposure. You don't... Okay, so Siddharth will be back soon. Jadip Sir, Mohan Bagan, Sporting... Privateization is a joke. Hit it, bro. It's your show today, bro. Privateization was supposed to be sold out all these things. People used to abuse BSNL, MTNL and the internet. It shouldn't have happened. His private service providers are very wrong. Yes, Siddharth, you're back. Not that. If you've seen Sudhani from Nigeria, that movie, about 7th football in Kerala. The club owner, the brilliant actor, he plays a beleaguered team manager who has no money. So someone says, sell the club. Right. Let's look up. And the club's not doing well. There's no money. There's no money for the Vans' fuel either. Someone says, you sell the club. So he says that you don't play football to make money. You make money to football. Right. In all this, I think football comes... You know, there was this... I'm sure there still is this ISL owner who was given this PPT and said that he's going to break even in three years with his investment. And he fell for it. He was very happy. Then he started saying that where's the money? He's not coming back. Where's the money? And later he was told that it's going to take 10 years or more. And the gentleman was pretty shocked. He wasn't aware of the fact that it entails the returns. If at all they come, it takes its time. It's not such a simple, you know, flow idea. The one supply thing. It's a different business model if one can call it that, learning football, investment in football. I'm not really sure. We have a lot of discussions on this return on investment sort of subject. And I was watching an interview with one of the founders of Dream 11, the company which is now the title sponsor of the IPL there. And it was an interview on one of the business channels and I think Shereen Ban was doing the interview. And she asked him about the profitability of the company, et cetera, et cetera. And it's a 10-year-old company if I'm not wrong. And please correct me or don't take this as fact. But it's in that range in terms of the age of this company. And this founder, I think Mr. Shate is his name, was saying that they are moving towards breaking even and cutting down on the losses that they incur year on year. So as football is expanding to include some of the biggest business houses in this country, why is there so much surprise or so much shock when they learn that, oh, it's not profitable in two years. Because you are going into a system where you don't know who you are. No, I'm saying that they run multiple across-industries businesses. In any business, it's not like you start breaking even in the first or second year and you start making profits. The gestation period of a business takes 5-10 years for you to even start thinking along the lines of making profit. So why is football so different is what my essential question is. Football in fact is longer. I agree, they probably have very little idea of what they were getting into. The money for them, the investors, the main investor is the very small thing for them here. For example, you might be familiar with IPL. How many years has it been? And how many teams in IPL have made profits? I don't think running sport is a model on the way that you make money and you start projecting where you are going to make money. It's not a mobile manufacturing. Even there you don't know till along this time. In this case, I'm saying that this owner was probably very meaning and his partner from the region told me that his ex-partner now, I mean, business partner says that he was told or somebody sold him the idea that in three years, boss, your money that you've invested or whatever you wanted from, we'll start coming back, don't worry, this is a women's situation. And then suddenly, I think that that team had the best crowds for the first two seasons of, I won't say a season, first two editions of the ISL. And then you realize that it's not happening. What's happening? I mean, despite the crowds coming in and this and that, where's the money? Then he was told boss, somebody else, he could probably show the model. He says not for the next 10 years, many more. And to build on Sadan's earlier point about the Asian idea, competition idea, I don't think these guys want to go there. I'm sure they understand the extra costs involved and they don't have that much ambition. That's why the ISL is more anxious to get in Bangalore or use Bangalore and Mohan Bagan, you know, some kind of legitimacy of the whole thing. Because I don't think anybody else is actually seeking that idea. I'm talking about the players who are doing it or the coaches who are preparing the team are talking about the larger owner idea. I don't think they see it that far.  But I don't know whether the franchises are actually, you know, very aware or curious about what lies there. For them, it's a good thing that, you know, you're playing in this thing, this limited entry scenario and apparently making not big losses. In that sense, not bleeding too much. There's one question that I noticed from somebody called Akshay Patel who's asking about television revenue and since, I mean, there's a monitoring the environment, the industry and Pandit, of course, you've been in broadcasting. What does these clubs coming in with their fans and their legitimacy and credibility and all of that? What sort of impact will it have on the broadcaster in terms of potential revenues and such? Or just even, forget about revenue. Even in terms of numbers. Partner, partner. What is partner? Partner wants me to amplify the product in which I invested. I'm asking, what will be the positive impact of these two clubs coming into the ISL? It'll be huge, man. It'll be huge. At least from a broadcast perspective, you might love it. You might hate it. You might think they're doing it the wrong way. But I'm just saying simple, if a Dabi was reaching 100 people and now they'll make sure this Dabi reaches a thousand people, right? It's that kind of difference. And for that, you've got to say, yeah, why not? Because the more people get to know about the game, the more, of course, that love story of Mohan Bagan. At the end of the day, when you're doing television, that's all about narrative storytelling, right? So here is an organic story which has history behind itself. So just watch the way you can build it. I mean, building a Chennai NFC versus the Northeast United. What will you do? You've been playing for four years. How much will you build up? How much rivalry will you get? But suddenly you have East Bengal, you have Mohan Bagan, and now you have Bengaluru as well, and there's a lot of tension and rivalry with both these clubs, you know. So from a TV perspective, they'll be very happy because, see, now you've called them. Your viewership won't go down. If anything, your viewership is going to increase. So I'll flip the same question and ask you a little bit about what is happening today. Essentially, the narrative is with you. It's been with Mohan Bagan. But to participate, you still have to buy a ticket. Because everyone else has bought a ticket. No, that's fine. But if you have a narrative and your partners, the broadcasters, the television storytelling, the mother of the general entertainment channel, you shouldn't go to them and say that they're starting this league. Please come. Why did it take so many years for them to come? I don't know. I'm asking. No, the whole reason was this only. We don't need to give money here. We have a legacy. We invested so much from so many years. So we should get an entry straight up. So this is what the fight was going on from so many times. No. From their perspective, I understand. I was asking the same question. But from the broadcasters' perspective or the league's perspective, why shouldn't they have been more welcoming from day one? But then you'll say that, look, if you're doing it for two of these clubs and why are you doing it for these other nine people who you've asked to invest so much money? Because they're new. If I would say that if that is the logic, let's say I'm a big corporation and to sit at the same table as me, you need to put in or show that you have also a substantial bank balance. Similarly, I'm Mohan Bagan. I'm East Bengal. I have a hundred years of legacy. I have 10 million fans, blah, blah, blah. So to sit at the same table as me, you also need to show something. You don't have fans to show, right? You don't have a legacy to show. So you bring the money. Fair enough. You mean... That was the decision of the league. No, no, I'm just discussing it. Their decision is pretty simple what they've gone with. They've said if everyone is paying 15 rupees, then you also pay 15 rupees. It's a simple thing. If you want to come to our table, then you should pay 15 rupees. If you want, then we can do it for you that you should show it in three years. I think something like this came in the middle. Because you have so much legacy, we can give you that, lakhs. But what happened after that? You paid 15 rupees, you came to Shree cement, and the car came forward. Yes, sir. There was a little difference. There was a change. Earlier, you had to pay 15 crores to go to Tantan Gopal. We can give you the money. But now, the central revenue has increased a lot. It has increased a lot. So as a franchise fee, we will be given the same money. More than that, we will come back in the central revenue. So that is there. They are saying that the central revenue can go up to 20 crores. I don't know. This is all here. Nobody should take it as a fact. It can go up to 19 crores. So it is fine. If someone is paying 15 crores, I don't know how much they are paying. They are paying in 10 to 15 crores. If they are paying, they will get it back. Because at the beginning, it was like, don't give or take anything. You will start bleeding. But now, people will bleed. People will bleed, but not to that extent. Actually, I have a valid question here. Now, since all of you have been involved with Indian football, way before ISL. So I understand your emotions and your attachment to all of that. What have I commented to you from the perspective of a young fan, right? Who started following football post ISL? How much do they care about this legacy? How much do they care about someone paying 15 rupees, 16 rupees to come into the league? They just want, that their team is playing with the best people. That is the end of the story. See, legacy, Arjun, it comes from what you teach them. What you teach your child, it depends on that. If you teach your child, everything goes wrong. So they will come up like that. They will grow up like that. It depends on what the parents teach. So I don't want to come into that legacy part of the thing. But the thing is that, see, one thing you have to see I hope the young generation from this should, I don't know whether they will learn that everything in football depends on merit. Money is not, everything can be done. If I take it, that is legal, we can guarantee the team. We can guarantee the team. We can come in, we can take anyone out. We can send anyone to big tournaments, we can send anyone out. This is something which is, which is not right. That I need to say. They don't care. They go to India. Previously, pre-2014, whatever happened, they went to India. Okay, I accept it. Not a problem. Please, go ahead. But go ahead in a manner which football is all, in the end of the day, football is all about merit. Nothing else matters. Nothing else matters. Even if I pay, even if you pay me five crores, I cannot keep a straight pass into the box. That's all. Because I have not learned it.  But there are people who, ninety-five out of hundred times, even in their sleep, will send the ball there. Because it is merit, they have learned it. It's not of money. And when they learned it, there was no money involved in it. I will give you a small example. This is who have come, brought up this point, this legacy point, this point. I will give you a small example. Arun Ghosh, the 1962 gold medalist, he said, my coach, his coach was Mr. Mitra, some Dasu Mitra or something. He says, he was a junior, junior clerk in court commissioners. And he retired as a junior clerk because he never went to the, never went to the office. He said, eleven o'clock in June, from six o'clock we are practicing. At eleven o'clock, I will ask him, finally, brother, I don't want to go to the office. He will tell me, yes, you will go to Orbeez Bolly Maher. He said, I will keep on hitting Bolly after Bolly. I played twelve years for India, not that way. That man didn't ask for anything from him. He only made him play. So, it's not about, it's about merit. The ball is about merit. That's all. Your point is absolutely correct. My question, Siddharth, if you could take this, it's simple. While we are delving into this, what is right? What is wrong? Should it be happening? Should it not be happening? What is the right way of operating? Okay, fine. But I'm just saying, your fans, going forward, the people who will follow your clubs, who will follow your league, and it works both ways. Do they really care about it? That's my point. Have you got a sense of it? Don't care any other fan. If you don't care about, about what was, what was past legacy, and you just care about the present and winning and, you know, playing with the, the best set. And then you're not a fan. You're just an opportunist. Right? You said that the broadcaster believes in, in a narrative. And what is narrative? The narrative is legacy. Or the other way around. If you don't have that, that then there is no narrative, right? So, if, if a fan is, is born when, when he is told stories. Or what he's like, what he's taught. Or if he, if he takes time to stop and, and read and, and, and try to discover what, what this club had stood for, or what it, it meant at some point. You know, what his father, his uncle supported and why the rest is fine. If you're winning with, with a good bunch of people from that point, if it starts then, I don't think fandom starts like that.  And that's why this club is, needs to be supported. And yes, like he's saying. But, but if you, the kind of fan you're talking about, say India has 100 people, that, that kind of fan is present in about 10 people because football, as it's, as such was only limited to those 10 people, you know, when you talk about a system or culture. So the other, say 90 or 80 odd people who are going after, who have no idea about how a club runs and how, you know, it goes from family to family. What about them? That's my point. Because the thing is the larger pictures, you need to get more and more people to watch the game. So the wider your net goes, educated people to watch the game. You need to get more and more aware people to watch the game. So those 90 coming in, you know, they also need to stop and think and look, look back at what was, and, you know, one thing, if they really don't care about, why did they, Mohanmagan and Ispengal. Now, now you yourself said, now it will be huge. The broadcasters will be very happy, there's so much money. Why? Then don't bring Mohanmagan and Ispengal. Bring two other clubs, because Ispengal and Mohanmagan, if you bring them, they will, they will, even if you don't like, unwillingly, they will bring some legacy from behind, and which is, perhaps, little over 100 year old, that's all. Yeah, yeah. Like it or not, like it or not, the ISL needs legacy. The ISL, there's a lot of mystery. There's nothing, no issue to follow back on. So it needs these people. So the fans who are looking at the 10, 10 fans who have got this idea, they'll follow them, and they'll come. Otherwise, there's no point, you know. Why was the ISL so keen on, bending rules and including teams to get these guys? They need the real fans. Also to, I think like, like you guys have mentioned to, to drive the final nail in the coffin of whatever other leagues might be standing in competition. Because if one thing is, I think we have seen the world over, it's that monopolistic sort of systems is what these guys prefer to operate in. And having establishing that, that position, co-opting everyone who wants to be co-opted, and then sort of getting rid of whoever's left, that is the general way of functioning. So, yeah, yeah, the only widening the heads on have not the gap here. I was looking at some figures yesterday, we talked about the percentage of income between the top 10% and the middle 50%. Did you study for the show? No, no. How did this happen? It was fun. The context is quite different. This is legacy, right? This is legacy. You have to read history.  This is a 2000, it's been studied since 2010. I haven't studied anything yet. We are looking for it. Write a book on history. If you don't recognize the legacy, you will not understand the present and not worry about the future. And also, it's like not legacy for the sake of legacy, just because you've been thinking for years, that has any value by itself. Not even saying that traditions should not be questioned or traditions should need to be, in fact, they do need to be questioned. We need to evolve, we need to reform, we need to change. But that should happen, like Jairi was saying earlier, in a democratic and inclusive manner, not in a Jiski Latihu's manner. You can't just trample on what existed, even if in a very precarious way, it's a very fragile ecosystem. We're just kind of letting the cattle on it, that's something you need to... I would think as somebody who writes on football, follows football, that worries me. What comes later as a market is something, it's not my domain to bother much about. That will sort itself out, it will implore or explore whatever it does. A flourish, yes, why not? Yeah, yeah, and there are so many people now who are doing... My question was very simple. My question was very simple. I'm saying that, I'm asking about the realistic picture. Are there people, see, whether they should or they shouldn't is different. Are there people who care about this? That's all I'm saying. You've all been on fields, you've all been on ground, you've all, of course, nubs, they say, they go to the fields, they don't ring light at home. So are there people who really care? That is my point. That we sit here and say, okay, that's good, I'm not saying, everyone should say it. But are there really people who care about it? That's my point. I don't think so. I don't think because we're having a discussion. The people who are running the show are so careless. I have my grave doubts about it. See, whether people care or not, I mean, the point about being inclusive in whatever we do and however we sort of try to develop this ecosystem is what it's all about, man. Whether people care or not is not relevant anymore, because the decisions are being made from the top and everyone else, the actual fans, whether it's us or anyone else who's watching, the people who joined the show, the people who support East Bengal, all the clubs, even the people who support ISL franchises, how much are they considered in the decision-making process when anything is decided off? You don't know that completely, do you? I don't know. I'm asking, so from what I see it, the decisions are being made in boardrooms and it's a top-down decision-making process. And just like it is in terms of, this is the top league in the country and this will set an example for what will happen and the consequences or the ripples will be felt, no doubt, by the other leagues. What will happen to the I-league, to the I-league's second division, even to local leagues? And in fact, I think it might be a good time for all of us to go back to our districts, our states and start focusing on those local leagues because that might be where real football will now reside. So, whether people care or not, I'm not sure. I'm sure they do because otherwise we would not have, we would not, like Siddharth was saying, we would not be having this conversation for an hour and a half plus. That's very good. With bad connectivity. With dedication. Dedication. Sometimes someone is coming, sometimes someone is coming. But the people's opinions, the people's wishes, the people's feelings, the people's feelings, there needs to be someone to listen to them. Fair enough. There's a nice question that's come in. So, we're going back to East Bengal. Jadif, I'll ask you. Rishabh Pathania is saying, will Salt Lake Stadium be shared for the ISL? And he also goes ahead and asks, how will they schedule the fixtures when it's only one match day, which I doubt that should be a problem. I'm sure they'll work it out. But have you heard any, this thing that they'll play, or they're trying to refurbish their own grounds and wanting to play there? Any word on that?  So, let them come, they will know. Sir, we did a show for 1.5 hours. Yes, and secondly, this year matches will be played in Goa. So, the question of Salt Lake can be shelved at the moment and discussed next year only. Isn't it? This year, you don't have to do anything. Because this year, if you have to do pre-season, pre-season, they're also doing it in Goa, I believe. So, in the so-called biobubble, I don't know. Big biobubble. Big biobubble. So, that, wouldn't you want for the might of these investors that have come into both these clubs, that they should refurbish their grounds and make them playable in official competition? Have you seen East Bengal ground? I have, I have. I'm scared. I'm scared that something will break. I think, where? Were they sporting? Were they standing behind? No, non-sporting. No, no, non-sporting. No, no, non-sporting. Yes, yes. Building your tent's ground is always the, should be the first thing that the club officials and the clubs, the sponsors should insist on carrying out. I mean, when they're sporting, got there floodlights or something, so late, about a few years only. I think, you started a new ground and floodlights. East Bengal club is very well-made. Very well-made. Yeah, the tent is beautiful. Yeah, that's nice. Only thing, only thing, it doesn't belong exactly to them, because it's armies. It's armies. That's the other issue. It's the armies ground. Otherwise, both East Bengal and Mohan Magan also, they are well-maintained club, they have at the moment. Previously, it's not used to be. You should see the junior level Derby's over there. The age group Derby's at either of the ground. It's great fun. Yeah. In the Calcutta League, in the Calcutta League, the age group teams, under 16, under 15, they're Derby's. Even this year in the age group Derby, there was massive fight. One group chased away the other. And there's a path, there's a path which, from behind, which joins the two grounds. So these guys just don't have to, they just come, come through the trees, sorry, language. They come through the trees and the, and the, and the foliage. It's very, it's very beautiful. It's very difficult to maintain that age group. Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, Sir, It's a continuous process. So something has changed keeping the actual thing in mind. What is wrong in it? And it's not that something they will do, do something new. It happens regularly. Now it is being noticed because new investors have come and brought a fashionable league and everything. For focus. But it's being done over the years. Isn't it? Don't you think? He's been a lot more than had at one point of time had a common ground. The current East Bengal Indians ground, which was exactly what's previously been called Monmagan ground. Then Monmagan in only 1963 or 1964, Monmagan moved to their new ground, which is we now Monmagan ground, which was which was which only belong to the Calcutta Football Club. Then it became Monmagan CFC ground. So changes have come over the years. So I don't think something new is coming up if it is done properly. As far as the players that East Bengal are going for, friends, you are writing a lot of comments. We don't know as much as the news that is coming out there, even though we've given a few agents a call and they've also given the same players names. One is Sandesh Jhingan is being approached. Then Anas at Athotika is being approached. And of course there's JJ Lalpeklua and the rumours have gone into overdrive now that JJ said that he won't be playing for Chennai and FC. I think from JJ's perspective, it's really important that the guy starts getting regular playing time. I mean, he didn't get playing time because of the injury. And then after that, of course, in the club, with Gregory, he wasn't always getting normal playing time even when he was fit, I remember. But it's very important that JJ starts getting regular playing time. Otherwise, you don't have a striker or a holding striker. JJ was getting time, still his injury, he was... There was a time in the league when he was making him sit out even when he was not fit. Yeah, but in a larger way, the playing time for Indian strikers is a call of concern in the eyes. That remains, right? As is the idea or their idea that no Indian can be a coach. I don't know if that's changing or that's changed. So these kind of things make you want to stop and wonder what's happening.   These things are... Okay, I'll end the conversation. Just a couple of interesting questions that have come in just now. Jaydeep sir, you've laid down as a fan. So as a fan that he's not in opposition to some things and he is in opposition to certain other things. So from that same perspective, if this 100 plus year legacy, why doesn't East Bengal have the best academy in the country or among the best academies? That's what has brought the club here. That's what they've brought the club here and it is not East Bengal. No club in the country has a proper academy. I can take one by one and those who have been thumping their chest for the last six years, for the last seven years, how many have brought out how many players? Tell me, who are playing for India at the moment? Ritam Kotal, Ranae Haldar, Narayan Das, J.J. Lalpeklua, Gurpreet Singh Sandu. From where they have come, everybody has come from Indian Arrows. Look at the national team. The national team is an Indian Arrows team. Which club has brought out which players? Nobody. I completely agree that if it is a 100-year club, what they have done? They have done nothing actually, to be very frank, in that front. Even Mohan Mughan Academy that way? See, it's not that key. They have not brought out players at all. No, of course they have. I have players that are currently also in the squad. See, let me name at least one player who was a product of Mohan Mughan Academy. His name was Chunigo Samy. He never played for any other team. From 11 years onwards he is playing for Mohan Mughan, Mohan Mughan Juniors. So let's not get into that. Again, it's a matter of not knowing the history. They have also brought out a lot of players. A lot of players I can name in East Bengal of Mohan Mughan who have come out from the Juniors team. But not to the extent of numbers which should come in 100 years. What Barcelona has done since 1992, East Bengal might take 300 years to do it. And still end up not doing it, as far as academy is concerned. So it is there. But what about those clubs who have been promoted as the saviour of Indian football? Who will be bringing up so many players from the Juniors team? There is a check and balance for that. Ask them to name. Name how many players they've come from. Yeah, I know I am fair enough. Siddharth, whoever else wants to take it. What are some of the challenges? What does it take firstly to set up a modern football academy? Because it's a legacy. You have a history of 100 years. But the game has changed a lot today. And to make an elite level athlete, I think it takes less effort to make a fighter pilot or an astronaut. So I will tell you about that.  That's where he played. And that's where he played his entire career. Fair enough, you don't see that happen very often. What is the importance of local clubs in creating this talent, apart from this new fad of academies that has sort of come up? Did you... Local clubs have predominantly been supplying players to clubs. So academies are a more recent phenomenon, which is now mandated that you need to have academies. So that's the way to go ahead. Those results have to show sooner or later. I don't think the time... It's still time for them to... But local teams, if they still exist or they're still playing or how they survive, what little funding and sponsorship? They're the ones who have been providing players. And can you spoke about Indian arrows? I think that's the one area where the Federation needs to be loaded and they have taken care about this crop of boys and then let them play and give them proper direction. So that's the one lone success. And as far as creating a model academy or a model club, I think the steps need to be... Taken need to be smaller. The goals need to be more immediate than the long-term as the dreams are fine. But the ambitions shouldn't exceed your... I won't say budget, but your plans or project. Start small. I also want to say... Play for the next match. Play for the next level. Plan for the next level. I wanted to say it to everyone who's writing in about a lot of these questions. We had a long conversation with Ishwar Ghermur and Renity Singh on Sunday. No one has seen it. No one has seen it. Both these players have very strong ties with East Bengal Club and who spoke at length about many of these issues. So please do check that out. If maybe we can ask Sanika or Aaryanshi if you're on still to post a link in the comments to that chat, the previous chat that we've done. Or I'll do it in a minute. So you can check that out as well. I think we can... Final question, if you don't mind me asking the last question, you can add another one after that if you want. But according to all of you and you can go and whatever order you'd like, what would be your successful first season for East Bengal in the ISL? It's very simple. For East Bengal and Mohan Makan's successful season, it means champion. Runner-Sup is nothing to them. Runner-Sup is for all franchise clubs. Finish second, finish fourth. As a fan. I'm not a East Bengal fan first of all. As a football lover, East Bengal's entry into the ISL should be the champions. Nothing less than that. Doesn't matter. I can challenge East Bengal fans only to be able to say how many times they finish runner-Sup in ISL. I leave. Because they don't want to remember it. That's a failure for them. It's not a club which has come up five years ago and we are in the first four. That is nothing to do with it. You have won it or not won it. If you haven't won it, then you are a failure. What do you think? I totally agree. Why do you need them there? Because they need to win. They have that ambition. Frankly, if you ask me, what now in ISL who wins who doesn't, is of very little consequence or relevance. In a way, what I want East Bengal to do or Mohan Makan to do is to help create more equality. And a more democratic system if they can. Which filters down to the other divisions and the levels. The earlier question before connectivity cut me off was as legacy clubs, when these guys come into the club, do they have a voice? Probably like when we enter a new club or a given membership, we are slightly quiet and inhibited and take the side table. For a while, these guys would do the same. They would stand on the side and let's see all things. But given their might in the sport in India, some more equality and some more voice for the people they have left behind. We need to help those guys then to worry about how East Bengal Mohan Makan will carry on their story. They will find somebody soon or later. Just a phone call away. You had me on hello. We have done 1 hour and 50 minutes. Not bad man. Respect. So once again Siddharth, Jadeep sir, Ani guys. Thanks once again for joining us on 420 grams. All of you who joined us. Thank you so much. We appreciate your love mid-week. The Sunday show remains Sunday 2pm on YouTube. We will come back with Renédy Singh and Ishwak Ahmed. A lot of people are asking what happened on the chat. How did this 3 shows happen? Let's say we let the internal matters remain. Just like the people running football. It will not be so transparent that I will fall on my feet. Okay. Thank you so much for watching. We have done another show on East Bengal. Prior to this Sunday with Renédy Singh and Ishwak Ahmed. Do go on NewsClicks YouTube page. Make sure you see that show. And of course if you haven't seen this and if you are seeing this right now, do spread it to as many people as you can. Thanks once again and we will see you now on Sunday at 2pm. Thank you for watching. Great chatting with you guys, Jadeep Siddharth. Thanks so much guys. Thank you. Thank you.