All right. Well, happy June everybody. Welcome. Welcome to the new member Q&A via Zoom. I'm Betsy Coe and in the purple is Stephen Greenwood. So and we're we're just really happy to have a great crowd tonight and a big hello to all of you who are watching afterwards if you're watching me to video. So our two guests tonight are Deborah Martin who's zooming in from Australia. I think that I think that's super cool and Ralph. Yeah, Ralph. Where are you. Where are you located up north in New York, Rochester area. Aha. Okay. All right, I have some Madison County ancestry. I'm actually a downstater from New York City. Mm hmm. Yeah. So interesting. All right. Well, so both Deborah and Ralph gave us profiles to look at. So I'll start with Deborah's unless you know there's a reason not to. Okay, so I'm going to share my screen. Steve, I did make you a co host in case there's anything that I'll be looking out for new people joining. Yeah. Okay. So do we see. Mm hmm. Good. I'm on now. How do you say his name Deborah Glenkirn. I have no idea really. I'm in Glenkirn. It's built different ways on different documents. Okay. What kind of do you have any idea what kind of a name it is. Um, it's, they came from, um, let me think about this came from Stepney, which is like cockney. Mm hmm. Yeah. And his father was a warfinger on the River Thames cockney. Mm hmm. So I haven't gone any further back than that. And what I'm going to do just in case everybody would like to look at the the profile on their own screen. I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to put the the link in the chat there. So you can either look, look on your zoom screen or on your personal screen there. And I did have a couple of thoughts as I was looking, looking along, Deborah, and then when I reviewed your list of questions, a lot of them like corresponded you were wondering about similar things so Um, right on the money there. Um, one, one little style notes is we we wiki tree prefers not to use a title in the name. You certainly can use that in the biography. But, but that's a that's a style preference. Well, let's just specialize like captain or some other type of title. Right. Mr. and Mrs. and Miss don't tend to show up in that field. Now I didn't consciously put a title in. So is that um, let me look at that. Yeah, I'm just going. Ah, I see. I'm in edit mode now. Yeah. And I see that you put the pre perfect. Mr. Ah, okay. So I don't need to put a prefix in unless it's something like captain or Right. Yeah. All right. Don't worry about it really until it shows up. Do you want me to take that out or? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So do that. I'll have to go back through all of my other profiles and do the same thing because I just It doesn't change the name of the profile. I mean, just added to that very specific section to let people know. In case there's a clarification of gender where it's unclear, like there might be a gender neutral name. The Mr. and Mrs. and Miss can be used to identify gender a little bit better. You know, they'll still have a color coded image, you know, in this case it doesn't have an image on it. So you see the color coded image. But, you know, I feel like it could be used in certain instances where gender might be uncertain. Yeah. Um, and let's see. I see your, your, your co managers with somebody do you know Lee tingle. Um, we've made brief contact and exchange phone numbers, but I've never met Lee. So he, I think it's a he put up the basic when I was researching in my biography. Yeah, yeah. Well, this is this is. Wow, all I can say about your the biography is wow.  So now I did notice with these. Now I have the browser extension wikitry browser extension and one of the really nice features with that is I can just hover my cursor over an inline citation number. Instead of having to scroll all the way down. I can, I can see what it is. And I see you, you got this from ancestry, and you have some find my past sources as well. And but there's no way for somebody to find the same source easily. Yeah, I'm that that's something I'm sorry, that's my phone. I'll just stop it. I struggle with citations like a family search. I can just copy a citation. Right. And I know that ancestry has a link to a citation, but it seems really complicated and messy. Well, you know what you need is sorcerer. Are you familiar with that. I've heard of this I haven't used it. Yes, what you can see on the top. I underneath my tabs this little one. Yeah. So that that's my source or extension, and what it will create now. Now I'll go to my, my models has ever been switched over to Ella Louise now. Related to this person. Yes, yeah, well I did this because this is your profiles. I'm looking here. Well, I use sorcerer for this only because I was having the family search was strangely not giving me a citation weight is this. This might not be the one that I want to show you an ancestry one. Let me go to say her to brother. Okay, so here we've got a 1918 98 year book from ancestry, and it will give you a link. So the payable though right. What was that. The payable though because the CGI bin link is the unless you have access to that. Yeah, no, but what a what what it will show or I'm going to click on it. And it will take you to do this. Yeah. So if I'm, if I use wiki tree saucer, I'd go to the record and then click on that extension in my browser. And then that brings up a citation that I can just copy and paste into wiki tree editing or do I just copy and paste it as well. Let me see if I can walk you through an example. But first, let me show you if I click on this. It not it will create citations, and it also will search for you for all of these sites. And then down here the second section will either do an inline citation for you, or source citation where you just put the little asterisk. So let's let's go to ancestry for a second. And find a record. What's the difference between inline citation and source citation. Yes, good question. So if I let me go back. So this is this profile was a fair amount of work and I'm not done with it yet, but you'll see that that I've got these 101213 in these are inline citations. So the fact that I cite this fact about Alan and Jesse's divorce, and then the source number 12 is my, my source for that, for that fact. So versus these ones at the end of the list that just have a little bullet point, which is created by the asterisk. And those, those are not woven. I haven't used them to back anything up in the biography. And so therefore I haven't, they're just sort of floating at the bottom. If we go to the edit mode. Here are my sources. So these are the ones that are just the little bullet point ones, because the other ones are incorporated into the text. So, for example, that what I was just talking about there, what I've, what I've highlighted in bloom is an in what makes it in inline citation is these little ref tags ref. Right, right. So I've just been using inline citations I didn't know about the source citations. Yeah, yeah. I think inline citations are nicer, because it sort of connects all the dots for the person versus seeing just a list of sources that at the bottom and I tend to think, oh, that's nice, what does it all mean.  By the way, if you know if you're ever in a profile, or you go into somebody's profile to look at the coding and see how they've done it but then you want to get out, get out without doing anything. This is very helpful return to profile without saving. I'm going to go to my ancestry and see if I can just find, find something here's my grandfather, his profile. Okay, so I have a number of sensors here. So if I go to, if I go to that, not to the actual image. If I go to the sorcerer app. Let me go to, let me build the source citation. And it's, look, it was not even a second. It's saved to my clipboard. Now if I come back. I might as well put it on his profile. And go to my family tree. There's my grandfather. So now if I go to edit, and I just paste it in. You can see that it already, I don't even have to put the the asterix in it's done. The triple single apostrophes that's going to put it in bold. Anyway, what, let's preview it. And you can see what it would look like. So would end up looking like this. And it would give the sharing link. And that would be the date I accessed it. And let's see, that's the 1921 census, which I already have. I have so I'm not going to keep this but does that does that help Deborah and everybody. hugely thank you.  Now, back to john and, and, and Australia. You had asked about, should you be hyperlinking. And yes, yes, I think that that's a great idea. hyperlink. Yeah, I find that even though the profiles will link to them, you know, through its own connections, you can connect to anyone you can link to someone who's not related. You can link to adopted parents. So if the connections aren't there in the wiki, those hyperlinks, you know, by using the pipe links with the two brackets on either side will allow other people to get to those profiles easier. We want to make it easier and accessible to everyone. So that that's the idea is the link as much stuff as you can locations. You know, if there's a space page, I always try to link a space page whenever possible. So more people can find out information on that location or that thing. You know, so there's multiple reasons for doing that. Yeah. Can you show the coding for that I see you've got a hyperlink in there. Yes. I've gone to my, my model profile for the evening. And of course, these are all hyperlinks, the immediate family. But the reason I'm bringing up Charles Allen Marsh is that he's the he's the uncle of of Allen.   Oh, I have to, is it a paternal or maternal uncle. So it just makes it easier to hyperlink him. And so let me go into edit. So then it would, if I click on it, it takes me right there. And let me show you this, this bit of coding is really, really helpful. And fairly straightforward, pretty simple. Yeah, very common across all of media wiki any kind of wiki projects utilize this, you know, this double bracket link. I'm going to put an example. If I, if I wanted to hyperlink myself. And it's coming in the chat. I could do it to right there. Steve can do an example of himself. Here it is. Our pipes hyperlinks or the pipe is referring to the straight line in the middle to separates the actual profile link from the text that you want to display. The text you want to display would go on the right and the profile number would go on the left and that's, that's an internal link. You can make external links with single brackets that that's a different situation where if you want to link to somebody, something outside of wiki tree, you would use a single bracket link with a space in it, instead of a, not using the pipe. Yeah, there's another example. Yeah, so that that is the hyperlink. That's exactly what I used in this profile. The wiki tree ID, but what gets its display is what comes after that little square bit. By the way, that key. Well, I assume it's the same on all keyboards. It's right, it's right under my delete key in the upper right hand corner of my keyboard. And you do have to to shift. It's an uppercase thing. I could just make a quick comment. Yes. Betsy you have that free space page with hints. Yes, different things that you can use. It sounds very helpful that has that information on it. Yeah, I hear what I'm going to do is I'll drop it in the chat. So this is just my personal cheat sheet that I translated into a free space page. It was a good exercise because I had to make it clear for hopefully clear for brains other than mine. And so a lot of wiki tree members have similar things so you could, you could consider doing your own but it has some of the wiki code and models for how to cite things. So if you're, I think, ever you said your source citations are hard.  Thank you. You're welcome. I'm glad it's helpful day. Okay, so back here. So yes, I would, I would know you put john himself in the list of siblings. Yeah, I don't, I don't think I don't think I would do that. Because there are some like, like you'll see and especially, oh, well I've done a lot of work in Scottish Scottish profiles. Families will if they've had a death, a child die, they'll reuse the name. So, so that that would be might be a little confusing to see. Yeah, I think I did that because I wanted to show that he was the oldest child. I could do that by just saying a sentence saying john was the oldest child and these are his siblings. Yes. So you'll see on the other hand, if you'll if you'll notice if you scroll through here john is in the list on the right there brother of John is the first one in the list he's the eldest and, and they've chosen to include them in the list as a feature actually to highlight that. And so, so I'm not sure that it's always the case that that you shouldn't have a shouldn't include the person unless the siblings because it's a question of how we structured this particular profile right. Yeah, yeah. Right. I could just change the heading to children of family or family members or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, that will always pull up on the side either I believe that's an extra feature that is not necessarily default to wiki tree. So that will always appear. Yeah, that's wiki tree browser extension feature. So if you, if you don't, you haven't enabled this feature, or if you don't have the wiki tree browser extension, you would be seeing the family members right underneath the born and birth and death locations, which is less than it would not break them down by color code or by order, necessarily. Where do I find the wiki tree browser extension. Okay. The wiki tree tree. Okay, cool. There we go. It's so it's now we have Murray Malone with us, who knows a lot about the wiki tree browser extension. Murray you want to you want to talk a little bit about it. You're muted Murray. Oops. This is a good day to ask that question because because they just released version 1.6. So you can get the latest and greatest version of wiki tree browser extension today. And yeah, you just go to this page. And if you scroll down a little bit and get rid of the table of content so it doesn't slow us down. Good. Now you just go past installation there now see you'll see that there's a stable version. And the preview version. Now the stable version as I understand it's being held up to get into the Chrome store. It just got to go through some approval process so it might get there on Monday or something like that. The Firefox one is there. But if you're in hurry and you want to get the Chrome preview version actually today, maybe today only. This version is identical to the stable version. If you go to the preview version link, you can get the Firefox version also. And then for Safari you'd have to contact Jamie to be a tester, and she would make that available to you and it's also available in version 1.6. So I have just edited to Chrome. So yes and it's the you know this little look it's the wiki tree logo and it's there's so much you can do with this. I mean, they've actually the wiki tree team has devoted multiple live stream presentations to showing off all the all the bells and whistles. They're the wiki tree tours. That's the title of the series that goes through the insert session. Yeah. Do you want me to. Do you want me to say anything else or. Well, so, so, so the features that I love about this thing this tool is number one is the hypertext capabilities, the previews. And so that's he has already shown you that you can preview the footnotes the references. But you, but you can also if you go. Yeah, but you can also preview space pages and category pages and, and stuff like that. And now just brand new, you can, you can, you can preview to the place in the file. So if you want to name the link right to the actual section that you want to go to the preview will take you to that section. So that's really nice. Yeah, yeah. And then the second thing is the readability options and if you if you set up the readability options you can choose sort of what's going to be on your page. If you want to hide some things and rearrange things like that, that list of relatives on the, on the right there that's a feature that you can, you can set that up so there's all kinds of features that you can change. Yeah. Yeah, you just said you just have to play around with it and and see what you like. Thank you very. All right, yes, so sorcerer and browser extension or to two must haves. Let's see. So we talked about sorcerer hyperlinking the siblings, the mister. One little thing I noticed when you were talking about his working life. Use the first person 10. Yes. And I, we shy away from that in a bio, but it would be perfectly acceptable to do that in research notes. Right. Right. And I think did you ask me about research notes. I did. I think that was one of your questions. So here's, so research notes go between the biography and above the sources. And one thing that's let's see. If you wanted to, if you were making a conjecture, or you wanted to really, if you felt like you should take ownership of what you were saying in the research notes. You can do the four till these, I'm going to put that in the, in the chat. So what you're going to see is on the upper left hand corner. And what that's going to create is, it'll say your name and a timestamp. So it's kind of like your signature. You just la da da da and then the four till these in edit mode, and then it will create the signature. But a lot I, I, in this particular research note, I, it seemed pretty cut and dry to me. So I didn't in that case. Okay. And then the, you asked about the transcription. You're like, for instance, Yes, here's the second marriage. And you have a transcription of the, of what's on the marriage record. Better as, as a image. Yeah, I know how to present this a little bit better. You can use the block quote. You can use HTML. So you'd have block quote in the two carrots. Then you'd have the text, and then you'd end it, you know, make sure you end that block quote to that way it would offset it a little bit. It would indent it a little bit to the right, and it would make it stand out as its own paragraph so it wouldn't be confused with whatever is typed on the profile. I'm, I'm wondering if that's maybe something we can do as an example right now. Yeah. Um, yeah, would it be okay if Steve absolutely. Okay. I believe that's the right one. The profile you want is Rainer 2722. Oh, I can do it. Okay. Yeah, go for it. I'd like to learn this too. But I'd like to see what the coding is that makes that happen. Right. Let me go ahead and share my screen then. Thank you, Steve. So, if you want to get out of your screen share, I'll switch over and share mine. Sure. Great. Okay. And I have permissions outstanding. I am on the profile for John Blunt here in Rainer. Can you ever go and see that? Yes. And we close this chat here. Okay. So let's go make sure this is the correct profile. Oh, I'm going to have so much fun with this. Where was it? Okay. It's down here in second marriage. Yeah. Yeah. I would usually I have the ability to edit sections, but I think that maybe that's only available on space pages. So they haven't quite got that on profiles yet. But let's go ahead and open it up. You can edit whatever you like, Steven. You have my permission. Well, we've been reason, of course. I try not to vandalize it too much. So I love this profile. This is a very nice profile in line citations. A lot of details. I love this. We might want to reword that too. I'll come back to working life here in a second then. Okay. So here's second marriage. This is text. Okay. So this, what we probably want to do is I'm going to use block quote. So you can see what I typed in here. I started that foot in block. What is one word ended it with that. Now I have to actually finish the HTML on the other end. That this will just take this paragraph. And let's see what it does. It's going to preview mode. Go back down. And look at that. It's the entire thing for you. Now we could probably clarify as well that this is like text from the document. So what would you, what would we want to put in front of this? Like that's not going to be quoted. What is this actual document here? The marriage certificate or the entry in the register. Okay. So it's this link right here or it's this source. Okay. Okay. Let's just click on that. It takes me right down to where I need to copy this. Because we already have it cited. I'm just going to go back to here. I love having a scroll wheel. Okay. So we'll just add an extra little clarification here. The following is text from. The marriage certificate then. Um, it was. It was actually the, um, register. Um, Okay. So the marriage register. Yeah. John Raider and Kizia Esther. Yeah. Okay. So then it's like a little bit cooler now. Bring that there. And you have that type. Yeah. I see what I did. Oh, that was being scrutinized.  Yeah. Yeah. So it's still part of the text. Then it still adds a little bit of a gap here. And then it indents that. Uh, even further more, I could take it one step further to make it stand out. I can add two little tick marks here. And that will make it italicized. And let's see how that looks. Oh, look at that. Now we can know for certain ads texts. I love that. Yeah. So does, does that look nicer? Or beautiful. So with that, um, two single quotes or a double quote? Uh, yeah, but you don't want to use the actual, um, like quotation mark because it uses the single ticks and sequence in wiki code to indicate italicism or bolding. So if you do three, obviously it's full to italicized. Uh, and one doesn't do anything, but the one will show up as just like a quote mark. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I mean, that that's one little thing I can update on there for you. Uh, let's go back to that working life section. So I know that you said you haven't been able to find any records of John's working life as a sailor. There is a, we can reword this as currently no records of John's working life as a sailor have been found. Yep. Yeah. Maybe that's the text we want to use. Yeah. So it's a non, a non POV, uh, setting, you know, having edited enough wikipedia and other wikis, I have a tendency to, to know how to. Yeah. So, uh, currently Caspian stops scratching my stuff. My cat is being very meaty right now. I know I could just copy and paste it again, but. And I think I was on a computer for eight hours before I came here. So you currently know records of John's working life as a sailor have been found. There's a John Rayner list is ordinary semen on the Java. Oh, let's add some italicism. Because Java is the name of a ship. I literally could like work on these all day. Like I'm kind of nitpicky when it comes to my own profiles. Uh, but 13 1833 is after he married James Stewart and settled in Australia. Okay. So maybe there's a way that could be reworded to, um, maybe I should put all of that in research notes thinking about it. I mean, in terms of working a life, I think it's important to still note here. Uh, you know, we just worded in a way that it reads more like a biography. Yeah. Uh, and that's fine when we say it like this, you know, because we're all doing research on this. And this is a presentation of research. Um, you know, also, uh, in, in verifying like the number of children. So even though they're like a reference individually, like there could be another reference potentially for, you know, however many children they had total, like if it shows up in a census or something, or if it's, you know, there could be another thing for that alone. Cause it's possible that maybe they had eight children. Maybe we don't know about another child and, uh, you know, that would give us some kind of limit to that. Um, and I guess just as a, this is again another nitpicky thing. I tend to like not put a space in between the ref tag and the actual title of the thing. Um, it probably doesn't make any difference, but effectively it's just going to, it's going to sign that straight to that ref name. Um, I also, if there's repeating ones, you can use ref space name and then title, like what that reference is. And every time it sees that, it'll just add like another version of it down below. Now I think maybe you have individual ones that are all different. So that might not apply here. Yeah. Other profiles. I've certainly, um, I haven't used that facility. I've just quoted them twice. So, uh, I'm not seeing any repeats in here right now, but if there were, if there was repeats, then we would basically have like, you know, 16 dash one 16 dash two. And so it would group them together. I provided samples of that in my cheat sheet. So you can check that. I'm not going to manipulate any of this since you did such a really nice job, citing all of these as it was. Um, but yeah, I think with those changes, I'm going to say that I did some, um, what bio build. I tend to see the word things certain way. Um, we'll, we'll say formatting. We'll say we did formatting. And then I'll go ahead and just commit changes. And there is the new updated John Blinker and Rainer profile there. So you can see that. You can see that Steve has the tradition, traditional, I guess you'd call it, um, way where you list the family underneath. Or between the birth and death. And yeah, this still shows up like this for me, but I have an extension where, or maybe it's integrated now into wiki tree where you can just highlight over these and it shows you the profiles. But, uh, yeah, I still, I kind of like seeing how they're related in order and like genders and things like that too. Yeah, I've only added like that for a few weeks. I'm, I'm sort of used to it. I'm just playing around with it. Oh, I just realized that that's kind of pushing into that. So maybe I need to add an extra space here real quick. That's going to bug me. Let's go ahead and just fix that real quick. I don't know why it was pushing it down. Probably because it was using an HTML code overwrite it. Oh yeah. I'm going to have to go back through all my profiles and apply all this stuff. I've just learned slower. I'm going to do a minor edit. Minor corrections. See that helps. Sorry, it's a little laggy. Well, that's interesting. If I don't do it, it bunches it right up. If I do it one space, then it has this horrible horrendous large space. So you can fiddle with it as you please afterwards. I don't want to make a bunch of unnecessary edits. But yeah, cool. I really like this profile a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Bravo. I'll back out. Well, I'm thinking at this point, maybe we should switch over to Rolfs. As I recall, Rolfs, we're going to look at Rolf's father's category, which has. Profile. I'm sorry. Rolf's father's profile, which uses categories. And that was another area where you had questions. Yeah. And I think that. My grandmother. I had a relationship with a man. That fathered my child. My father, my father. And, you know, there was no relationship. There was no marriage. There was nothing. An optional event. Right. But, but he is the biological father and. And she married two other times. So there's like three men. And I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. If you look at it, you get the impression that the one is actually a husband. If that makes sense. Oh, wait a minute. Oh, by the way, my, my profiles, my biographies and my. Information is nowhere near. As. Sophisticated. As what we just looked at. That is okay. Sometimes there isn't information. I don't have, I don't even know who my, my maternal grandfather is. And he's in Germany somewhere. So I have nothing. See, my problem is, I tend not to write in paragraphs. I write in sentences. He was a carpenter. He would, you know, Oh, the facts. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. So. So I've got to get. A little bit better than that. I mean, yeah, everybody does differently. Some writing pros and some writing. You know, bullet point. Just depends on what you want to get out of it. Again, for those who want to look on, on a screen at home, there's the link. To the profile that's on, on screen right now.  And interesting point. My parents and I came to this country back in 55. Before they came, they made a decision whether to go to Australia. Or come to the United States. There's a lot of Germans that immigrate to Australia. Well, yeah, the, the, the, my understanding, and I don't have any documented proof, but my understanding was that the Australian government offered immigrants a plot of land. If they were tradesmen, my father was a carpenter. They decided against it. So what was the benefit of coming to America? He had a sister, half sister. Okay. Yeah, the family connection. That usually helps to get them grounded. Yeah. Yeah. It would have been interesting if I had lived in Australia instead of New York. Did they immigrate to New York then? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay, there it is. Right in front of me. So, well, do you want to, you had some specific questions about sources that are documents in your possession or your. Yeah. I think, I think I heard. I'm not sure if it was you Betsy that said. We don't tend to add photographs of documents to the profiles. Is that correct? You can. You can. Okay. Like for. Is this a document that you personally own that's not available? Yes. So for my father, I've got a couple of documents. Yeah. That I own. That I wasn't sure if I should put them on his profile. Yeah. Or if I should. Yeah. No, no. Right. So I think that would be okay. Like. For example, I ordered an ancestor's civil war pension file. A couple of years ago. And within that. There was a copy of his marriage certificate. And it's like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Which to my knowledge is not, I'd never seen it before. It's not, I had researched him extensively. And so, but it's, it's cool looking. So I, that's something that I would eventually like to put up on his profile. Now, if it's something like. An image or maybe a newspaper clipping of an obituary. If you clipped it. You just need to source it with a link. Okay. The issue is that the newspapers are still copyrighted up to 1928, I believe. Yeah. And there is a complicated situation with newspapers based on like who was the editor, like who has access to it. You know, we generally I'll go, I'll go from newspapers that are older than like 1923, just for to make sure. Yeah. Well, I have things like marriage certificates. Bird certificates. Things like that. That. I have that the German government isn't releasing at this point because of the amount of time. Yeah. I forget what the. Yeah. It's going to be a hundred years. It might be stricter. Yeah. Yeah. But if it's, I keep coming back to that sort of thing, if it's, if it's your. Related to your father, it's, I mean, it's your property. Yeah, no, exactly. I'm just saying that I, I'm not able to go out to family search or ancestry and find the exact document. But I have the document and it is mine. Yeah. Now that doesn't mean that this stuff isn't already floating around the internet freely. I mean, it's just who's going to enforce it. Right. Yeah. I haven't found anything. Like that. Yeah. I mean, I had a contact of the church out there. They sent me the document. Stuff like that. That's good. Yeah. Now, again, is your ancestry largely Biden, or does it start to spread into other German states? No, is where the most of my family. You know, they, the max line of the family is not a biological. Right. He adopted my father when he was two years old. Okay. And so he took on that name. He was given that name. But he's not biological. Right. So we would want to follow the zealot line because that's the biological line. So I mean, from a, from a button book and bag standpoint, that family line originally came from the Czech Republic. Oh yeah. So about Bohemia. Yeah. I have a difficult time finding any information any further back information on that family.  I'm, I'm part of that project, but we're right, right.  Now one, one thing that you did that was really good was your C also section. And that's really where find a grave and things like that should go. And what Murray's done in the, in the chat here, it looks like he ran sorcerer on it, sorcerer on it. And so this is the, the proper way that the find a grave citation should look. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I remember talking about that. I did learn something. And I got it from David Randall and his profile completion checklist. Now, now that's the one that's automatically at the bottom of the find a grave. So those, those tend to be the ones I end up using. But again, I will only sort it. I will only cite it relating the burial. Don't cite it for the death or anything out there. Mation. You know, because the location we can probably say is fairly accurate. Unless it's a cenotaph, the information on the stones may be accurate, but it could have been submitted by a third party that was reporting the death. So they might put on the stone was afforded. That might not be accurate. Right. So, so yeah, for those reasons, like I'll still put it in as a source, but I'll only cite what it applies to, you know, the location, the burial, anything else that is in the death record. That's going to actually like talk about death dates. Maybe even birth dates are in the death records as well. But yeah, that formatting that's in that page is what's usually on to find a grave itself. The other one that was produced by sorcerer just, you know, adds that extra information links it a little bit differently. I have a tendency to do it myself. I just have the tendency to like do a handheld and not even worry about the sorcerer because I'm weird. This is really very, very detailed. I mean, the plot, the section. Yeah. If that information is available on that find a great profile because not all the find a graves have, you know, applied information. I always try to put that into the text. If possible. So you can see with regard to categories. Categories are are really great ways to tag our profiles with regard to places that the person lived. Born, married, died, lived in this place. Where they were buried. What their occupation was. So you can see where we're talking about. The, the find a grave that Eric is, is categorized within the cemetery's category. If we go there. Then we see all these other wiki tree. Profiles from the same cemetery. And then my favorite part goes the top. Yup. I know. Yup, I do. Let me get the chat. Out of the way. So my connections. Let's see if I'm related to anyone in maple grove cemetery. Oh. Okay. Seven cousins. Oh, yeah. Interesting. Because there's probably the American bottleneck being attached to the cemetery. The American bottleneck is what I like to refer to is when everyone came over on the boats at the same time in the 1617 hundreds and Intermarried into each other. And so a lot of people in the Northeast connect to a lot of people in the rest of the country. So, so these. Seven people up here would be. Yeah, direct. Direct bloodline. Whereas the other. Other people down here connections. There would be some marriage in between. 15 for marriage is pretty close. So. Yeah, it is. It is. So that's a, that's a good point. You can play a play around. And in terms of where to find, I've lost. I've lost there. No, I'm back. Okay. Where you can find categories. Is to go under find. Categories. And this is the first one. And then the second one. And then the third one. And then the fourth one. And then the fourth one. And then the fourth one. And this is the first page you come to is very, very broad. But for instance, see here, you could go to cemeteries. Or occupations. And it's, it's highly specific. Like I have a lot of doctors in the family.  Not just a doctor. So it's, it's neat that way in cemeteries. It's, you know, by continent and then country. And then, well, in the United States, state, county, or, or town. So. Yeah. And the way to categorize. Let me, let me do it on my, my grandfather's profile. If I go into edit mode. And. I'm trying to think of, you already have a draft. So that might be affecting your ability. Do I? Yes. Again, active drafts. You may have to just. Delete the draft. Oh yeah. Because I wanted to, yeah, I didn't want to resave the census. So here I am. I'm in edit mode. And so it's this, this is what you want for categories. So I've only categorized him in physicians. Let me, let me categorize him for Niagara falls. Ontario, because that's where he was born. I could also categorize him to Bronx, New York, where he spent his adult life. And then, so you don't, you don't, you can, the system will just. Better now for auto completing them because we used to have to do it when we didn't have to drop down.  Well, now. Can I give you a new tip? Yes, please. So see the, see the categories button below the toolbar. Yes. Now see it's got to look at location category, add cemetery category, add any category. So that's something that's not already in the system. Well, no, no, no, it's already in the system, but let's just say, let's just say that you wanted to add a cemetery category. Go ahead and click on that. Okay. See that new box? Yeah. Now go ahead and start typing in something Niagara falls or, or Paris, France or whatever you want, and it's going to list. Okay. All right. So, and I could do. There we go. And it would just show up the same way. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have auto categories enabled. And that's another thing that. It's probably new. Okay. That's on the browser extension. Yeah. Yeah. It'll go through. It'll go through and look for locations and look for cemeteries. And if it can find in census records, it'll find occupations and see if it can find a category. What, what is that called the auto, auto categories. Yeah, auto categories. So searches the text of the biography to determine what categories it should be going into. Yeah. And then how does it create those categories? Say that again. Will it create those categories based on what's in your biography? No, no, it'll, it'll, it'll look for, for example, it'll, it'll look for Fairview cemetery in Niagara falls. It'll recognize that pattern and it'll say, Oh, I've got a category that fits that. I'm going to add that category. But if it sees, if it sees Fairview cemetery in, you know, Bracebridge, Ontario, it doesn't already have a category for that cemetery. It's not going to create one. Hmm. Right. Yes. Right. Yeah, you could still do that. Of course. And in fact, once you had. Then it would start to show up in suggestions, right? Cause, cause once it's in the category list, then it's part of the suggestion list. It might take a day for it to rotate for the system. Well, yeah. Yeah. How do I get out of this box, Marie?  And. Oh, at the bottom. Okay. No, don't, don't scroll. Just. Oh, you can't move your mouse. Oh, underneath. I'm sorry. Yes. It was hidden by the. By the. Photos of all of you. Okay. Close. Because I had already done it the other way. So then this. I've done categorization. Full save. And now if I. Go to that category. Oh. Go to the category of that cemetery. And my connections. There's my grandfather. Oh. Oh, two. Yeah. Father and son. That's my, my grandfather and my great-grandfather. Yeah. Wait, you have. Oh, there's my surname in there as well. Interesting. Greenwood. Yeah. You know, it's maddening. We cannot figure out. Where that name comes from. Greenwood. What the significance is it's not a family name. So it's a middle name. It's a middle name, but you know, usually middle names, there's some kind of link. Right. Like the mother before that would have had. Greenwood is a place name in our area. Greenwood is a very common name across a lot of the planet. The funny thing is my name is actually adopted at some point. I'm no longer Greenwood after the second great-grandfather. It's an adoption. But I know where those people came from that adopted. They're from Dent in Yorkshire. So that's like where those greenwoods came from a long time ago. I have some ancestors who were given the names of a family friend. And I only picked that up because the family friend was also an old friend and the little one. They were in the wilds that can be. Yeah. But I mean, they were in Ontario and she was the youngest child of the family and the only one to be born in Ontario. So it could have a connection, Mary. Greenwood, Ontario. Look into that. Right. If you're looking at that connection. Yeah. back to back to Rolf isn't that what we do best i know we are very good at that um okay so um things that are in in uh in your in your possession and i think this is in my cheat sheet i you can just say um that it is a personal document right yeah within within your possession yeah i read that but i guess where i was confused was you know do i overload the profile with all these images no don't worry about that don't worry about that if you have if you have if you have records and they are part of your private collection that's what i say i write down uh part of part of my private collection so these you know i refer to records in my private collection do you want to make photographs of those records that are in your private collection there's no copyright on them they're yours right so you so you can you can photograph them and you can put them on on thing now you know you probably don't want to put thousands of records up there right you don't want to overload the computer and and overload the system but but you know you're probably talking but it doesn't are a couple of dozen records so what's the harm in that okay yeah all right so here's my dad um where um you know i i knew him for 48 years so um you know that's i i can be a source because i was there um but i have his death certificate i did put you know the number but just in my possession um this was one of my early profiles so i don't know what i was doing here i'll have to check this out um i have his naturalization certificate and i have his his call well his his high school and college diplomas so that that's how i handle that um i think same okay so it sounds like i have some work to do well we're all we're all in the same boat we have so many different projects we have to do i was going to add that if you wanted a separate space for some of the images if you felt like it weren't appropriate to put into the profiles themselves you could make a space page especially again if you wanted to talk about a location or maybe a very particular part of the family like you can have a page on a family heirloom you could talk about it and have images associated with that you know and that might be something that one of your cousins might be interested in checking out as well okay yeah um i'm looking at ralph i'm looking at this national archives us reports of deaths of american citizens abroad this would be something where if you could track this i mean is this something that you visited the national archives and you saw or no i have the document my father and mother were on vacation my father died out there and the body wouldn't be allowed to send back to the united states until they had a burial site so i got a document from that represented that information and that was posted on the national archives okay yeah and so this would be a really good one to say you know in possession of and then your your id yeah and and maybe explain the circumstances um you know of that and put a copy of it on on the profile you can look at it and look at it this way i mean we're not going to be here forever right so any information that you feel is relevant to help others continue the research after we pass away uh that is information that you can provide on those profiles if you look at it that way you know kind of a completist view but that could again further research for future people still wanting to learn about your family and maybe they want to learn about you you know because then you'll become a historical figure that'll have his own profile and you know he'll be accessible to other people at that point right so right right we're all part of the history that just continues we're just the next shame in that history so did we do we answer your questions wrong yeah i think so i mean the only thing that i'm still a little in quandary about is what do i do with this guy that was my actual father's father yeah your actual name was zeigler yeah can we can we go and look at him yeah sure absolutely okay there he is so do we have parents for this i do interestingly enough for whatever reason my father had to have his birth certificate with his parents on it okay so that's a baptism record um that's that's something that we would give me yeah there's a family search record for it so that's proving his birth to that father krelstein and berthenberg uh willemstein uh so i'm trying to figure out like what do you feel like is missing from this profile well where where um i guess not concerned but confused is uh if you look at my grandmother's profile he's listed there and i'm not sure that unless you read the narrative that the people think that she married him so wait a minute i'm going to go back to your father and now go to his mother yes right frida so so she she married this gentleman by the name of hitler hitler and uh he died right shortly after the wedding in the first world war and then and and the story is she either had a relationship or she was taken advantage of and that was with this seedler guy and she got pregnant and that was my father and then shortly after my father was born she married maxa and he became the stepfather it does seem to fill out in the biography here yes in the biography i i try to i try to you know identify the people i'm just not sure if you look at it from the top view whether that message comes across i like the bold things that are unique and weird the bold i like to use the bolding for this is a thing where a non-partisanal event happened he also here you know like flashes and marquee and flashing lights um i could show an example of things like that too yeah yeah i do want to um sure yeah let me go back to screen here i i want to make sure i have something that's ready to go before i do so i may have to do a little bit of searching here so if you want to continue talking about that i'll do a search okay um let's go back to Frida um yeah i mean i i think it's clear in the biography i i you know i i understand okay um and yeah i mean anyone who spends enough time sort of looking around looking around at the family relationships are going to realize that now did she have okay so she this is the half sister that your father came to the united states to be near right yeah yeah and she was she was a maxa oh right right yeah so if you i mean if you go to her profile you see oh yeah that's but father was she the daughter of of your mother okay of my grandmother yeah all right i was i was able to find something i worked on recently um you'll you'll recognize this profile all right so let's so for those not in the no betsy and i actually had a nice little zoom meeting with a notable person that we're going to be sharing a video of pretty soon and this is one of their ancestors can everybody see this lice davis and horton uh he's an interesting person that connects to our notable and i found him as an interesting person because he has a connection to the civil war and so if you look in this you know biography first off and wanted to just rebuild his name that's just the thing that we do or i do at least and then at the bottom you go straight to it and see oh look he was wounded in the battle of burnt church in the civil war whatever that is and i still don't know what that battle is or where the burnt church is but i wanted to highlight it and i added it in bold so it stands out you know and so that that's like a thing that kind of points out this notable feature of this profile i don't know i'm just using this as an example you don't have to follow my lead on it but you know same thing for some of the sources to you know be bold a little bit in the front to stick out a little bit better does that clarify what i was talking about maybe yeah yeah okay rolf did you also see that gerard put in the chat that uh he has a lead to a company that uh does check genealogy pathfinders so which known as check of shabaki or check of public now back in the day it would have been known as bohemia right right or fristia in a variety of kingdoms in that area of the world let me ask a silly question is there a way to capture what's in the chat yes um that's not a silly question at all um if you hit the three dots that are at the very bottom of the uh chat area you'll get a pulled down menu and save chat is right at the top of that list okay yeah oh thank you d i have a i don't know that's the one burt church first nation let's see this is it uh new brunswick canada oh would that have been in the american civil war i don't i don't think this is the one that's new brunswick canada okay the battle of burnt church that i know about is is the french and indian war yeah no that they said this one 1700s no they said there was a burnt church battle in the civil war american civil war that'd be cool if somebody helped figure that part out is that that one's still kind of uh leaving me a little lost yeah i don't think i don't think it's the right one thanks for looking into that so again rabbit holes are they great we learn examples from them so um do we have any burning questions i see what you did there nice segue you left the door open for me there's no door they already burnt the church i think you've covered all of my questions and thank you very much that was so useful oh good good and um you know you can find find me on the um let me let me quickly grab the link for you it does go to show that a little formatting can go a long way too yes yes just make them pretty you make them look presentable um you can always find me um and lots of resources on our free space page the new member q and a uh free space page um you can leave a comment for me there i'll get a notification or you can go right to my profile i'm co-31 so always and i'm greenwood 3667 it's a little more populated than hers 3667 where does it save the chat to it uh you get to once you actually click on save to chat you get to define where on your computer it goes um so it's like a paste yeah yeah it'll show it'll be a little text file yeah i think it's a xz file and um yeah um doesn't let me paste though i've got a notepad open yeah i clicked on the it's gonna it's gonna save as an actual file on your go ahead and click show and folder so if you show a folder that should open up your um your browser on your computer for that yeah yeah okay yeah i got it thank you all right you're welcome well i guess we'll we'll wrap things up for tonight um and if if you want to spend some more time with us um on sunday sunday morning my morning uh 11 o'clock eastern standard time um d who's with us tonight is we're gonna look at these profiles uh have a new show the new camera by then and um steve won't be with me but uh hillary gatsby will will be my co-host and she's in the england and wales project so how often do you run these betty let's see um the first thursday of every month and then the sunday immediately after that first thursday oh i'll put it in my calendar wonderful yes yeah great well thanks so much everyone it was really thank you for the genealogy with you okay bye bye