What's up football fans and welcome to radio row here in Phoenix, Arizona. You're watching Fandall TV's more ways to win Super Bowl style. I'm Lisa Kearney. We are at Super Bowl 57 getting you ready for the big game. We've got the Chiefs. We've got the Eagles kicking off in just a few days. And these guys are the guys joining me here in Phoenix to break down the big game here. Former NFL wide out Super Bowl champion James Jones. Where is ring? Right, right. Ah, we got it. We will get a close up on that at some point. We got Dave Weaver, sports betting expert. We got sports talk radio host Andrew Philipponian house. And as always, we're talking spread totals, props. They're giving out their best value bets here on this show today. Guys, can you feel the excitement? It's only it's early in the week. And it is just it's popping here between the lights in the ring. I'm going blind though. Yeah, we barely got that right. We barely could sleep. So you know, they barely could sleep off of one of these. I love it. I love it. We're going to get into all of it. We're breaking it all down. James was talking before this show. This brings back memories of when he was here playing in the Super Bowl. So we're going to get to all of that. And of course, along with all of us here in Phoenix, our NFL expert Cole. Right. Joining us from Chicago to drop some of his knowledge as well. What up? Oh, what's going on? Apparently they're giving those Super Bowl rings out to anybody since James has one. He earned it. He earned it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? All right. We'll send in you all the Super Bowl vibes from us here in Phoenix. These guys are ready to do this thing. Our guest list is absolute fire this week. Yes. Stay tuned for some special guests joining us today. Giving us their unique take on this matchup. We got bears running back. David Montgomery. He is just behind this set. He will be here in just a few minutes. Of course, we also have Hall of Fame offensive linemen. Jonathan Ogden joining us on set here today as well. It's going to be a great show. So let's get it going. More ways to win starts now. You see it right there. The graphic chiefs and Eagles. It's going to be an awesome game. Hey, we're going to break it all down for you. We've got two number one seeds here in the chiefs and the Eagles.  But some of the guys already ESPN, Adam Schefter and Field Yates. They both have won 546 or excuse me. They're 16 and three. Both teams scored exactly 546 points during the regular season. Both teams have a Kelsey.  It is unbelievable. This line as well, by the way, has been pretty consistent. Eagles giving a one and a half that hasn't moved. Pony, you and I talked about it starting at two and a half. We're going to get everybody's pick. And James, I'm going to start with you because, hey, I'm going to start with you because I really before we get to the game, I really do want you to bring us into the moment of what it means for these guys to play in a Super Bowl. You played in the Super Bowl. You want it. You've got a ring on your hand. Bring us back into those feelings that you had. So I'm just going to give you all a crazy story, right? So going into the playoffs, I had dislocated this finger and I dislocated this finger. So during the playoffs, right? I'm shooting these fingers up, right, to play the game. So I can't feel these four fingers. I only could feel my outside wants to catch the football, right? And I mean, in practice, Aaron knew JJ is going to run the route to make sure his legs is good, but you cannot throw him the ball because I can't shoot them up during the week because they can't shoot them up every day, right? And the pain was too, I couldn't handle it, right?  And you know, everybody got the chills and all that. And I put my game pants on, my cleats on and I walk out to the field and I'm out there. I see Pam Oliver, Pam Oliver's out there and she's like, James, how are you feeling? Like, what are you feeling right now?  Like, I feel good. Like, boom. And I caught a ball and I said, I have not shot my hands up and I feel nothing. Like, that's just how much adrenaline I had. And the dot came out there like, JJ, and I'm like, I'm good. Like, I don't need to shoot them up. Like, I just didn't feel, and I'm like, sit down. And I just had to really like calm down. It was that much adrenaline.  So I know these players going out there, that is what they are going to feel. And I'm excited to watch it. And I know we got to talk matchups and we got to pick a team.  So she's going to look down on me. But I'm interested to see how this one going to go. Because what the Chiefs do really, really well is play man-to-man coverage on defense. Right? That is what they do. That is their M.O. We're going to get in your face. We're going to jam you. We're going to try to get some pressure on the quarterback. And we're going to do what we do. I want to see if that's going to change. Because what kills man-to-man coverage is a quarterback that can run. What kills man-to-man coverage is big-time receivers on the outside that can play the game. You got AJ Brown. You got Devonte Smith. And you got to account for Jalen Hurts legs. So are they going to change? Are they going to come into this like we did? We who we are? If they beat us, they beat us. And if they do do that, I think the Eagles are going to have a field day. I think it's going to be tough to stop Jalen Hurts and his legs. And I think the one-on-one coverage, I think Devonte Smith and AJ Brown are going to make them plays. On the opposite side of the ball, the Chiefs offense aligned is really not that good. And you're dealing with obviously the best front seven in football with the Eagles with everybody they have. Man, even with all the money they put into it, James, with Brown and Tunney and Creed Humphries. You can block one or two. But can you block four or five? And that's why the Eagles led the whole league in sacks. And I feel like just match-up-wise. And I know Patty Mahomes is over there and it's tough to go against Patty. But match-up-wise, I just don't feel like this is a good match-up.  He might not. I mean, in fairness, I mean Andrew Wiley all season long, that right tackle for the Chiefs. Looking at him going against Reddick, that makes me nervous and it makes any Kansas City Chiefs nervous. Well, it should look at Brock Purdy. Ask him about Hassan Reddick. Both of them. I mean, I know you got, I know you got Josh Johnson off the street, but he didn't make it out the game.  And that's what I'm looking forward to seeing this game. Are they going to adjust, especially on the defensive side of the ball, because you play so much manly? Yeah, I mean, all three levels of defense there. Pretty dang solid. Not going to lie. Dave, it's the biggest game of the year. How are you playing it? I love my homes. I know. Obviously, it would be nice if he had an offensive line that was going to keep him clean the whole game and no sex. He's going to have to move a little bit. I think he's going to be a little bit more mobile. What I can't get around is the fact that three weeks ago, you picked Daniel Jones to beat the Eagles. I did. And now you're thinking Patrick, my homes can't beat them. When you look at what he's keeping receipts. When you look at, that's a good job, Dave. When you look at who the Eagles have played since week number seven, and they do have the second best passing defense in the league. But it's because they played the Steelers, Houston, the Colts, the Packers, no offense. But we're talking about teams with no passing game. Titans, the Giants three times, the Bears, and then the Saints and the Niners. I mean, getting after the Pass. Now you're playing Patty, my homes. Getting after the Passers, getting after the Passer, Dave. You know what I'm saying? And that's what they do. That's why they led the whole. By 15. And I did pick Daniel Jones until I seen this defense against the Niners. And I don't know if they're going to be able to get. And James, in James' defense, though, we didn't know if Jalen Hertz was going to be completely healthy for that Giants game, too. He was coming off that shoulder injury for that one. Yeah, but still, I probably still would have picked Daniel Jones and the Giants just because, you know, I'm an upset guy. I'm going to pick them upset. And he's never believed in them all year, too. The Eagles in this pass rush. I think that's going to be the equalizer in the game. I think we possibly can see Patrick Mahomes running like he was running against Tampa. Tampa.  That would be bad. And seeing what he did in the AFC Championship game and knowing he has two more weeks. And listen, everybody's getting healthier. Everybody's banged up at this point in the season. But I wanted, I did want to give our, our, I was going to say our listeners with you guys on your radio said, people are watching the show. So for everybody tuning in, so you mentioned it and you guys have been talking about it. This pass rush is not just elite, right? They had 70 sacks in the regular season. The second team, is that like double everybody was 55. The Kansas City Chiefs, but 70 for context is tied for most in NFL history. So what they're doing is not just saying they have a great pass rush. What they're doing is historic. And as a Chiefs fan, you got to respect that. And then you've got to be smarter another way. And no, and no, like we're not taking no credit away from Badbury and no credit away from Darius Slay. But when you're in zone coverage and you know that this ball has to come out in possibly three seconds, that changes the way you play the game on a defensive end too. And that's why they're having such a good year. And Lisa, you mentioned injuries. I think we're sitting here Tuesday. And what happens with the Chiefs secondary and Snead is a big subplot to this game. Because if he can't get out of concussion protocol, they're going to start three rookies that corner. And I know those guys have played a lot of football this year. Two of them are seventh round picks. James talking about the butterflies you feel when you get into the Super Bowl. It's one thing when you've got Arrowhead going crazy for you. Now as a seventh round pick, you're lined up across AJ Brown. Yep. Come on. And you don't know if you're going to have safety help because if the safety's got to take into account the run. Got to. If they don't play him deep, they're going to run all day on Kansas City. It's not a good matchup for the Chiefs defense. Even with the Saxon, Chris Jones is coming off the game where he looked like Aaron Donald in the AFC Championship. You know I want to talk about that. Speaking of injury news, I know you guys heard it this week. Clyde Edwards-Hilaire has been activated. Yep. Nicole Hardman now on IR so the Chiefs will not. And to bring up that too, so they banged up on the defense. And then you talk about the receiver core. The biggest key for me in this game is JuJu Smith going to play. And I'm not saying it's JuJu Smith going to play because JuJu Smith is just this all-world wide receiver. I don't think he's that all-world wide receiver. He's a solid number two, number three receiver. But if JuJu doesn't play, now you got M.V.S., you got Sky Moore, and you have Travis Kelsey, right? So it's going to be two guys. It's going to have to be two receivers that's active. He's already out, right, April? Well, he's up in the air. Yeah. So it's going to be two receivers that we might not know about out there. And when you got a pass rush like this, that means things got to happen fast. And M.V.S. isn't going against Eli Apple this week either. That's a side-adjust and all that stuff that's happening on the fly. All these young fellas going to be able to do that. You might be able to do it in practice, but when this game comes, is that chemistry going to be there when Patty look at him and this ball got to come out quick because the pressure coming on her. He see a blitz vice versa. That's going to be a big answer in this game. Cole. I think Cole has Andy Reid on the phone. Cole, are you there? You got Andy Reid on the phone? I don't have Andy Reid. Not just quite yet. Jump into this conversation, Cole. Come on. Jump in here, Cole. I'd love to have Andy Reid. Got to give your take on this game. Well, you already know which way I'm going, Lisa. We've been in lockstep all season long. I'm going with those at Kansas City. Jeez, 31 to 27. And you look at the line, absolutely disrespectful. I mean, they have 10 wins this season by 10 points or more and three of those W's they came versus playoff squad. So what are they able to do? They're able to go out there and get wins versus teams that know how to win in the second season. And they had eight games this year decided by three or fewer points. So those close-knit games, Patrick Mahomes, he has a knack for winning those and two of them. Well, they were versus Cincinnati and they split. So you can throw at least one of those out of the window because there's only one of those two teams that's currently standing. Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs. And Lisa, you know right now I'm pretty much the apple of your eye because I'm going Patrick Mahomes in Kansas City eight days a week. There's only seven days until the Super Bowl. Stop, James. No, I got a question for you. No, no, no, I got a serious question. Put your Andy Rea hat on right now and your Eric B. Enemy hat on right now. I want you to put that hat on.  What will be your game plan? Are you attacking them running? Are you attacking them passing?  How are you attacking them knowing that Fletcher Cox and these boys is coming? Well, defense, like you said, they will be coming early and often. So my game plan, if I'm Andy Reed, at least defensively, well, I'm going to go out there. I'm going to try to stop Miles Sanders. Now on the offensive side of the ball, defensively, if you're looking at from a Kansas City perspective, what do you need to do?  Offensively, Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelsey, Isaiah Pacheco. It looks to be a three man weave. Now there are some other components that will be front and center on game day, but Travis Kelsey and we know how good I feel about Isaiah Pacheco all season long. So hopefully a few tickets will be punched on Super Bowl Sunday and I'll be able to walk into that window and cash a few dollars in there. I hope, I hope it's a under over and under on Pacheco because it might be, he might have 15 yards. There is. There is. But he's coming off the game with 85 scrimmage yards and that AFC championship came a rookie coming in and stepping up when his team needed him. So badly he did it. It calls the president, vice president and treasurer of that fan club. That's right. I am right there next to him. All right, you guys, great stuff. We got to move on here. Playmore coming up here, including fun, Super Bowl player props. We're going to get to all that. But right now we got to take a quick break. Thanks for hanging with us on Radio Row. You're watching Fandal TV's more ways to win. We are coming right back with our special guests. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back to more ways to win here from Radio Row in Phoenix, Arizona as we get you ready for Super Bowl 57. We got the Chiefs. We got the Eagles. It's going to be a huge game. Have lights. We'll travel, right? Thanks for coming with us here to Arizona. I am so excited as you see on our set right now. I'm so excited to welcome in a special guest that we brought to you at IT's from the top of the show. We've got Chicago Bears running back. David Montgomery in house. David, thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me, really. Yeah, how's the offseason going? It's going good.  But it's about time to start picking it back up. All right. I'm going to get your pick on the game. Of course, these guys want to break it down with you. But before we get to that, I want to talk about your status.  You've got to know, are you going back to the Chicago Bears?  You came such a fan favorite. Give us your status right now. What's up? Yeah, really just taking it one day at a time.  And I'm just waiting for the league year to start. And you know, I'm excited for free agency. I love the Bears. I love the organization. And I love how the city treated me. And they got a good thing going over there. And you know, I hope I can be back. Yeah. It's been four years in Chicago so far. Can you see yourself in another spot? What type of scenario would you be envisioning for a great setup for you? I really just see myself where I am right now. Honestly, I try not to look too far ahead. I try to just, you know, take it one day at a time and be president where I am. Be where my feet are.  So I'm excited for whatever's next. That was so peaceful, right? Like massive future. He's like, I'm good. Just be where my feet are. Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm stressing nonstop about stuff like that at all times. And I don't have the decision that you're going to have this offseason, David. I'm so curious. We're a few days away from the Super Bowl. Do you remember the first Super Bowl that you watched when a young David Montgomery sat down?  Great food, chicken wings, pizza and stuff. What's the first Super Bowl that made you fall in love with football? So to be honest, I'm going to be all the way like honest with you. I didn't watch the Super Bowl at all. None of them? None. Like when I was a kid like... Zero Super Bowls. Yeah. Did you grow up a Bengals fan? I was. I was more so like, I was kind of a weird kid. Like I was, I didn't know I was good at football until like I knew I was good at football. That makes sense. So like... How old were you? When I realized I was good. Yeah. Probably like middle school. But then when I got middle school, it wasn't like important. But then I got to high school and I'm like, well, it's kind of cool. I already had Mr. Bunch the Super Bowl. So you never watched it as a fan then? No. Really? Have you been the one since you've been playing or no? In a league? Yeah. I don't think I can... I couldn't take that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm with you. No, but I hear a lot of people saying like, this experience like other players, like you got to go, you know, just to experience it and, you know, envisioning yourself in that spot. But it's a lot for me. Like it's hard for me to, you know, go somewhere like, no, I know I can capable of being in the playing in, but I'm not in. So I'm with you. Well, you got a chance to get into playoffs next year, assuming you're a bear. Maybe you can get back, but you got to start somewhere. You guys have the number one pick. Putting your front office hat on. How do you build this team? What would you draft if you had the choice to do that? That's above my pay grade. I ain't got nothing to do with me.  I'm sure to be, you know, a great pick and a great addition to our team and be able to get this thing rolling the right way.   You know, for me, it's all about the quarterback spot, right? Can your quarterback sling it? So when I was a free agent, I was like, ain't no way. Ain't nowhere else to go because I got AR 12 throwing me the ball. So I'm good. You know, let's talk about the money with you. You know, it comes down to quarterback, offensive line coordinator calling the plays. It was Coach Luke's first year with you guys up there. How'd you like him? Do you think that that's a fit for you, you know, moving forward with Coach Luke calling the plays and being the coordinator? Of course, of course.  Like, we didn't open up nothing in the offense. Like, we were just scratching the surface of being able to do a couple of things.  And the things that he does in his offense, I know I can be, it'll help benefit me, but it'll help benefit our team as well, you know, if I'm in those situations to where I can help. So, yeah, Coach Gessie, he got it all down. Pat, you know, we took a little, like a little escalator here just trying to figure everything out, trying to learn everything, learning personalities, what works for different players, what works for us, what works for the coaches.  Yeah, I think the sky's the limit. Super Bowl's here. Who got the advantage in the run game? You got Miles Sanders. You got Pacheco. You know, they just said Clyde Edwards to Lairs coming back. Yeah. You know, you got Scott and Miles Sanders. Who you taking? Backfield-wise, running game-wise, Eagles or Chiefs? Bro, it's really tough, bro, because like, it's really two nice groups, like really, really good groups, like Miles, you know, being, we came out together. Like, I know how he play. I've always watched his game, loved his game. And then you got the young cat over in Kansas City, like, Pacheco. He's nasty, you know, and, you know, big ups to him. But, you know, I can't really pick, bro. It's really going to be up to the boys up front, really, to decide, like, how the game going to look. Like, how that front five want to play is going to be dependent on what those guys can do in the backfield. That's a scary proposition. We were just talking about the two lines there and the play that's going to happen in the trenches and I don't know if anybody's as confident as I am because I'm a Chiefs fan coming from Kansas City. We do have to decide the game because that's what we do here all week long. We say who's going to win it. So I'm going to ask you, who's going to win the Super Bowl on Sunday? I think it'll be Kansas City. I say Kansas City because I want Kansas City to win because I got, like, one of my young guys, Brian Cook, on the defensive side. You know, we went to the same high school and, you know, being able to see me and him have some success in the NFL and him being able to get a ring. It'll be dope for our school and for our city. So that's really, like, the only edge for me to say, like, I want Kansas City to win. So your heart ended a little bit. Boy, out there. I want him to snap and I want him to feel that feeling. And he can let me know so when it comes time for me to have that feeling I can do the same thing. Yeah, he'll rally the troops to tell everybody to cheer for you and your squad went to get there. Hey, you're in town all week long. So what you got planned this week? Training and talking to people. That's about it. So you kind of like me, right? Because when the season was over, if I didn't go to the Super Bowl, it was a week off. That's all I took off. Because I was one of those ones to where I never liked getting re-sore. Like, I don't want to take, like, a month off and I got to go back and I squad and I'm coming out of there on my leg. I never wanted to get re-sore. So is that kind of like your, that's what you do like week off, couple of weeks off and then it's back at it before the Super Bowl even is over. Yeah, that's where I'm at. Like, I kind of been like that my whole entire life, like mentality wise, but like me, like me knowing myself personally and knowing like the possibilities and the capabilities of what I know I haven't reached yet and it's still out there. Like how can I sit around, especially when everybody kind of got like that opinions on who I am. And I want to confirm like myself, like how right I am with myself before I let anybody else confirm like they write about me. No doubt. Keep grinding. All right. Well awesome having you on the show. Chicago Bears running back. David Montgomery here with us. Appreciate you joining Fandall TV. Appreciate you joining Moreways to Win for all the guys. Thank you. Good luck next season. We'll be watching every move, man. Thank you. Awesome. All right, you guys, let's move on here on Moreways to Win. Thanks for hanging with us on Fandall TV. Love having him on the show. David Montgomery, we're going to have another great guest coming up later on Moreways to Win. Hall of Fame offensive lineman Jonathan Ogden. We'll be right here with us on set. We're asking former Baltimore Raven for his thoughts on the Super Bowl matchup. And of course, get his big winner. That's Hall of Fame offensive lineman Jonathan Ogden coming up here on Moreways to Win in just a few minutes. Let's laugh the whole thing. Yes, Moreways to Win come to you from Super Bowl all week long, leading you right up to kickoff on Sunday. We're here getting you ready for this Super Bowl with daily shows from Phoenix. And you can see the show times are right there on your screen. Make sure to check us out each day on Fandall TV for great betting content, special appearances from current and former players here all week. We'll be here right after the break as well. Stay with us. Hey, everybody, welcome back to Fandall TV. It's Moreways to Win before we get back to the game breakdowns and props that we have ready for you. I want to tell you about the most anticipated kickoff of Super Bowl Sunday. It's Fandall's kick of destiny for $10 million. You see the guy right there. That's right, Rob Gronkowski will attempt a field goal live in the third quarter of the Super Bowl, and you can get a piece of the $10 million in bonus bets. Just place a wager of $5 or more on Super Bowl 57 before kickoff. You'll receive a bonus if Grant kicks the field goal, makes good on the kick of destiny. Now, it doesn't matter if you're new to Fandall or already playing with us, everyone is eligible. Grant kicks you in. It's as simple as that. We're going to limit one person, one per person, and then go ahead and cheer on Gronk as he goes for glory. And of course, $10 million for Fandall betters. And we're going to have Gronk on the show with us this week. So you can join us Thursday. We'll have Gronk with us. We'll talk all about that kick of destiny, all about those $10 million as well. But right now, I want to lean into some chiefs player props. There are hundreds of player props for you.  So let's get right into it, guys. We're going to start with Patrick Mahomes. We've got over or under 292 and a half passing. It's going off. It was. Last time we did the show was in the 2-8. Tony, start us. 292 and a half for Patrick Mahomes. Yeah, I don't like it, to be honest with you. It almost feels like it's too obvious. It's too good to be true.  You're making me nervous. I just, I'm waiting for the explanation. Go on. When the Eagles give up a 300-yard passer close to it, they're blowing the other team out. That's what I'm getting at. And so I've been up here saying, I think Philly is going to win the game. But is it going to be 38-9? James, you think it is?  It's crazy because even as I want to say yes, but I'm looking at the guy in the pictures right now on the TV and I'm just thinking to myself, Patty, not going to get blown out. But for me, this is just, I just truly feel it's a bad matchup for them. And that's how I feel, Tony. I feel like he possibly can get this number, but it's going to be because they're down and he has to try to throw the ball all over the yard to bring his team back and he'll get a couple late scores in the game to kind of make it a game and have some solid numbers for people to talk about what he did in Super Bowl. But I don't think this is going to play out good for them. Lisa, they had five games this year where the opposition went for more than that prop, number 290 and a half, or was it 290 and a half? 290 and a half, yeah. And four of those games, they won by double digits. I think he gets it by having a big game and winning. Like, I don't think he needs to chase to get 300. I think he was out there, has an MVP-type performance of a game and gets 190 yards in the first half and cruises home with the other 100 in the second half. What do you have? 360 plus something in the AFC Championship game? I know I keep going back to that, but... M.V.S. is my little brother, right? Spent a lot of time with him when he was with the Packers, right? Sky Moore's a rookie, right? JuJu Smith Schuster at best, number 2, number 3 receiver, right? You covered him a whole lot in Pittsburgh. Yeah. How are they going to get open? Well, Kelsey's one of the most clutch postseason players in history of the game. I know, but Kelsey... And he gets 160. And he gets 160. Well, if he gets 160 and he's getting the MVP, he's going to win his team. So you just answered my next question, because Travis Kelsey's over on her 78 and a half receiving yards. He's going to more than double that. I want to bring in Cole to talk about Isaiah Pacheco because I know that you are a lover of this rookie. Oh, yeah. And so am I. Cole, over or under 52 and a half rushing yards for Pacheco? Well, he's going to be a key component in this game. Like James said, when all the dust settles, he may only have 16 yards, but if he gets his fingerprints, not only will they be all over the ball game, they'll be all over a Vince Lombardi trophy as well. Sticky fingerprints is what they like to call him around Super Bowl time, but he led the team in rushing yards as well as rushing touchdowns. He had five to his credit in the second season, a completely different beast. We know he's still on the hunt for that first postseason touchdown of his career. And I think he's going to complement that passing game, albeit limited for Patrick Mahomes, only a select number of targets out there. Pacheco, when it comes to his rushing yards, I think he's going to stay under. He's only gone over that in two of the last three, but this one will not be that one. He's going to be big where it counts. You can count on that one. Okay. I'm going to count on it, Cole. Thank you. All right. We're going to get back to you in just a moment, but right now I want to get to that team representing the NFC, the Eagles player props. We're going to start with the quarterback, and you guys are going to love this number sitting here right now. It's over or under 291.5 passing plus rushing yards. We had 292.5 just for Patty Mahomes sitting there. All right, James, is he going over or under 291.5 passing plus rushing? He's going over, and the only way he doesn't go over is if the Kansas City Chiefs change who they are. And I don't think the Kansas City Chiefs are going to change who they are on the defensive side of the ball. They are going to do what got them there, play man to man, let Chris Jones try to get after the quarterback. He will get outside the pocket. He will make some explosive runs because everybody's back his turn playing man to man. He'll get some gas plays, and he's going to take some shots down the field to Devonte Smith and AJ Brown for some explosive games. I think he's going to go over this number. I'm not going to say he's going to go over it by a lot, but he's definitely going to go over this number if the Chiefs do what they've been doing and what they show him. The X factor to this bet is the rushing yards. So because earlier in the season he was going 80 yards, 90 yards. He had 157 yard game on the ground. His last three games, he has had less than 90 yards combined. Where has that running game been? Has he been saving it for the Super Bowl?  I don't think he's going to get enough rushing yards to make this bet happen. He's been handing it off to Miles Sanders because the box is like the box. But if he does that again, he's not hitting this number. And Gainwell was great in the divisional round game against New York too. 112 yards. You know what? I feel like the one saving grace for the Chiefs, Lisa, is that I still don't think Hertz has looked as a passer good in the playoffs. His downfield passing, he's not in sync yet with Brown. They haven't hit on those big plays. They haven't needed to. They haven't needed to. So if the Chiefs win this game and he goes under, it's going to be because that shoulder injury is worse off than we know of. Then it hasn't really manifested or shown up yet because they've just blown away the opposition in these first two playoff games. You know when we'll find out about that shoulder? February 13th. On Monday we'll find out just how bad or good that shoulder is. You guys mentioned Miles Sanders. So let's talk about his numbers. Find it right now in the Fandalsports Book app. Sanders is over under 62 and a half rushing yards. Pony. Well, that seems low to me because they run that RPO game so well. And I would think that Kansas City is looking at it like, let's make Hertz hand the ball off to him. I think that's what they want on every given play. So I think the opportunity is going to be there for Sanders to go over that number. Cole, do you agree? Let's bring Cole in. Cole, do you agree with that? Do you think Sanders is going over under 62 and a half? Well, Kansas City, their defense, they're going to be hit with 50 different shades of gray, much like Dave and Pony's combined ensembles out there. But either way, I just think that Miles Sanders, he's going to be too much. He's going to be one of the really bright spots for Philadelphia in this game. But like we said, I don't think it's going to be enough for Philly to pull this one out. We know Sanders balled out versus the Giants, but that was a while ago, even though James picked the G-Men to win that contest, we're going to scrap that one right there. He was able to eclipse 56 yards 12 times this season. So if you can add a few on, we'll see if he's able to get there and I think he's going to go over. Miles Sanders, that's the one I'm going with when it comes to the over on the Eagles' prop bets. Cole, hopefully by the end of the show, research can get in our ear and they can let us know how good the Eagles are or bad the Eagles are when Miles Sanders has a good game, because if Miles Sanders has a good game, like you're saying, you think he's going to be one of the bright spots, how is Kansas City going to win if they can't stop him, Cole? Kansas City has more guys on that team that have been here before and done that before, James. You know, it's all about experience. You have experience. You know what it's all about.  You look like Fred Samford at the start of the game. You look like Vitruvian Man at the end. They beat the Steelers and they had won it two years before. Cole, you hear Pony? Why are you bringing up old stuff, Pony? We were inexperienced. They were two years removed from the Super Bowl and we beat them. If the Chiefs cannot stop to run what I'm getting at, they are in trouble and Dave, you have to agree with that. They can stop to run. Chris Jones has got to be a one-man record. You know what, though, to Cole's point, experience means something. This is the third Super Bowl for the Chiefs in four years. This team has seen this, they've seen the stakes. This roster, there's turnover. Yes, I know it's not the same team that's been there. Where did that experience get buffalo, Lisa? But we talked about this on the radio show, by the way. Yeah. James is sitting there. No, no, it doesn't matter. You have to say it does a little bit to feel it before. Experience, for me, is overrated. And the reason why I say that is because I truly feel like it's all about the team playing the best at the right time. Like, forget experience. Like, when you look at these two teams, who's playing the best at the right time? And right now, you can say it's the Eagles' opponents or whatever, but right now, they're playing the best going into this Super Bowl. And that, to me, is really the answer that you're looking for, not experience. All right. Well, we can say all the things. But that's why we play the game. That's it. We're going to play the game. Gotta lace them up. And you can play the game right now. Go ahead and hit up the Fandals Sportsbook app right now. And every better has a system to play these bets. We want to remind you to make Fandals responsible gaming tools a key part of yours. To learn more about time, wager, and deposit limits, visit fandal.com slash play well. And we've got plenty more coming up here on Fandal TV's more ways to win, including another big time special guest. So excited to have these guys joining us this week. Ladies and gentlemen, Jonathan Ogden will be joining us here on set. Super Bowl winner, pro football hall of famer. He's going to get in the trenches and tell us who he thinks will win on Super Bowl Sunday. Ogden in house with us next. Welcome back to more ways to win from Super Bowl 57 right here on radio row in Phoenix, Arizona. We're breaking down the big game. We're getting you ready to bet Super Bowl Sunday. Thanks for joining us. And now I want to welcome in a big time baller and special guys with us here on more ways to win set Super Bowl champion, Hall of Fame offensive lineman, Mr. Jonathan Ogden. How's it going? How's it going? Thanks for having me. Nothing much. Thanks for joining us this week. That's your plan yet? Absolutely. That is my plan. Whenever the Super Bowl is here in the Phoenix, Scottsdale area, I forego media role. I head towards the golf course. I'm excited you're here.  So I'm telling my husband. He was a former defensive end for the Atlanta Falcons and also the Seahawks. But in his falcons days, he went against you. It's Patrick Kearney. So he said he'd line up against you. And his goal every time obviously is to get to the ball. I swear to you, I couldn't even see the quarterback. This man is so big. His frame just locked out everything I needed to do that day. So anyway, mad props. He said you are a human moving wall. Well, thank you. And congratulations on that. And your husband, he was out there working hard. Blessings. But he's one of those guys who I always get credit to who never left anything. You know, he left it all on the field.   So yeah. So he was quite a good player. He hasn't lost it. I appreciate that. Pass it along. Hey, we got to talk about you. Played 12 seasons. Retired in 2008. Going to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. What's post football life been like for you? It's been great. I've just been working with my foundation still in Baltimore that I've had for 20 plus years with kids. I still have my own children. I'm living in Las Vegas. My son just turned 18 the other day. I got 11 year old little girl. There you go.  I mean, like my 18 year old, it didn't seem like he just seemed like the other day. He was like eight. And now he's, you know... Is he a left tackle too? You know, he is about six to about 230. He's not quite a left tackle. He plays a... He played at Bishop Gorman High School. They finished number three in the country. He got a little bit of playing time, but he wants to go to Towson University back east and play football there and just try to, you know, have some fun with it. To La Crosse School, I think. Towson. Towson. They're not bad there. They're not bad. Your defense that you played for for the Ravens was one of the best that we've ever seen in NFL. The Eagles, second ranked defense in the league. From an offensive standpoint, sometimes when you have a defense that's that good, does it change the way you play offense? Because you can rely on them to always get a stop? I mean, I was watching the 30 for 30 about the Baltimore bullies that came on yesterday. It reminded me, like, we basically said, look, just don't make any mistakes offensively. Don't turn the ball over.  If we do that and just punt to them, we're not going to give up more than 14 points. And, you know, Jamal Lewis running the ball, Trent Dill from making one or two plays a game. It's amazing how far that can take you all the way to a Super Bowl ring. So how do you see this one going?  You got Chris Jones on the other side. How do you see this game playing out right here, especially in the trenches, because that's where you played it at? That's where it's going to come down to. I mean, I really like Phillies' defense. I really do. But it's tough to go against Mahomes and Antiree. You know, the better quarterback and coach combination tend to work it out and, you know, but I love Jalen Hurts.  It's just going to be a good one. This is just one of those that I'm leaning towards Kansas City, I think. But, I mean, Phillies would not surprise me at all if they pulled it out at all. Jonathan, so I'm in bed last night. I'm a Pittsburgh guy. So I'm going to put my, exactly.  Oh, it was really good. It was really good. So we saw the personalities. Shannon Sharp. Did you see him almost getting to a fight at an NBA game the other day? I did. I did. Did you think of that? I was thinking like, Shay, what are you doing, man? Why are you on the sideline to act as a fool on the court side, man? Oh, man. But Shannon's one of those dudes who used to play. Yeah. Like, you know, he's a tight end, right? And I got the defenseman.  And he's over there talking smack to these dudes. I'm like, hey, Shay, that's my dude. You talk that line back in that state deal with it.  I got to deal with that heat from your talk. Yeah, no doubt about it. That's good right there, though. But hey, you know, like I tell people all the time, with NFL players, respect is everything now. So Shay, still, he's still carrying that, you know?  He's still carrying that. But what did you think of the documentary, though? I thought it was really good. I thought it was really good. I mean, so sad Tony Siragusa passing away a month after it was done. But I mean, you know, I told a great story. I mean, that season was kind of, it was special to us in particular. But I mean, you can't win a game like that. Super Bowl like that anymore. I don't think not the way we did it, not the way we beat people up defensively. I mean, you could play great defense like the Eagles are right now, but you know, we would have had at least another 25, 30, roughing the quarterback penalties. I mean, it was a whole different, you could intimidate people. I mean, Ray Lewis intimidated people come across the middle.  I mean, that's what we did. Chris McAlister, we were just really a great team that year.  I want to know who is the best pass rusher that you ever had to compete against? I always tell people this. I say that the white Freny on the road in Indianapolis was always a hamper because they always seem to get a lead with Peyton. And now I tell you what, he would get that little spin move going and that speed rush. I mean, he had the best spin move probably in the history of the NFL, at least I ever saw. But I also said that Derek Thomas was the most versatile, the most complete pass rusher.   Yeah, rest in peace. One of my favorite players of all time. I grew up Kansas City. My whole family's there. It's a big matchup for us. But I was just talking to a friend back in Kansas City doing a radio thing and we were talking about Derek Thomas and just how incredible the player he was and his precision. I love that shout out. Let's talk about a current player, a current Raven, that's obviously gotten himself a lot of respect. And question marks with Lamar Jackson. What's your take on the contract status and situation and is he going to be the quarterback there long term? I hope so. I hope so. I mean, I think he's, well, obviously the best quarterback the Ravens have ever had. I wish he had an agent, me personally. But I mean, I hope they just figure out a way to get this done because they're going to franchise him if they don't get something done. And I mean, he can sell if he wants to, but he missed not on $40 million to give a take. I mean, that's a lot of money they missed out on and he'd be getting a year older. So I just wish somehow, some way, we can get this whole, I got to have the Deshaun Watson guarantee thing out the way and get something that's more in line with the way business is done in the NFL to make him the highest in that way you look at it. No doubt about it. Ma'am, loved having you on the set.  Love your perspective. You guys are great. You are the best. Thanks, Jonathan.  We were saying you must kill it off the tee. Well, you know, if I had a good shoulder, I'd hit it a little further, but that's okay. As long as the chipping and putting are good, you know, if you put me around the green in regulation, I should be able to get up and down. There you go. Awesome, awesome. Jonathan Nogden, Super Bowl champion and Pro Football Hall of Famer. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much. All right. We're back with more fun Super Bowl bets after a quick break. Welcome back everybody. Thanks for hanging with us here in Phoenix, Arizona from Radio Row. We have just a few minutes left in the show. That show flew by. I'm going to get back to the book and hit some unique bets available for us on Big Game on Sunday. So you can find all the bets we've talked about right now on the Vandalsports Book app, including this over or under 10 and a half yards for Patrick Mahomes, first touchdown pass. Dave, that's a fun one, right? It is a fun one. It's first of six touchdown passes in the game. James says that they're going to go three and out and punt on their first possession. I think he's going to lead them down for a touchdown. But first drive he's actually scoring. His first touchdown pass will be 18 yards. 18 yards. Over, 18 yards. All right. James, you get Jalen Hurts' longest pass over under 37 and a half yards for Hurts. It is going to be a 55-yard bomb. You see how quick I was ready for that? 55-yard bomb press, man-to-man coverage, tough catch, AJ Brown touchdown. All right, Pony, you're up. The position will score the first touchdown. The first touchdown? I think wide receiver. Well, come on now. Talk to him, Pony. It's crazy that James and I, it's like somebody took our brains and gave it the same information because we're seeing the game almost exactly the same way. Wide receiver, AJ Brown. All right, that's plus 200 in the Fandalsports Book app. Right. Now, Cole, got to get you in here. You're up, my man. Over or under 251 and a half combined rushing yards for both teams. How are we doing on the ground? There you go. Again, Cole. And we came here. Cole. I know it. I know it. I think he said over. I think he said under. Cole, the mute button again, my man. All right, that was sad. Again, you can find those props and dozens more. There are literally hundreds on the Fandalsports Book app right now. Before we go, we got to throw you a big fist bump. Check out this special Super Bowl offer from America's number one sportsbook. Fandal is giving new customers a No Sweat first bet for the big game. Just download the Fandalsports Book app. You've got the fancy QR code right there. Place a cash bet on the big game. If your bet doesn't win, you're going to get up to $3,000 back in bonus bet. So make sure to download the app and take advantage of this No Sweat first bet promotion happening right now. The Super Bowl is here, guys. Thanks for watching. More ways to win with us this week. And a reminder, we'll be here in Phoenix all week long, leading up to Super Bowl Sunday. Catch these showtimes all week long. We are so excited to be here. And we'll see you right back here tomorrow.


Welcome back. Day two, CUBE live coverage here in Vancouver. Open source summit, this is our coverage. I'm Trevor, Rob Stretcher here. Breaking down all the action. Rob's been analyzing all the keynotes. We've been in the hallway conversations after I was getting all the data and all the action. Rob, day two kicks off. We've got the great scenery here. If you look at, if we can get a shot of what we're looking at here. This is our office today and yesterday. You can see the mountains, that snow up there. Those little skiers are apparently up there. Beautiful weather here in Vancouver. Open source summit is the premier event for all things open source. And they got the great venue. It's a very intimate event.  This is a very intimate insider game right now. Open source day two. My takeaway is day one, clearly open source. The top players are here, they're digging in and they're trying to assess the landscape. And it's changing and our narrative yesterday was, the question was, is this tornado called AI going to decimate and topple the foundation and the infrastructure and the institution of generations of open source? Our answer was it will not, but it will shake. It'll definitely rattle the cage. It'll rattle the house, rattle the foundation. This AI wave is real. The DevOps wave is real. C&CF has, they had 10,000 people in Europe. They're probably going to have bigger numbers in Chicago in November.  They spun out the security events. AI, I'm sure they're going to have an AI event. So I think the Linux foundation, they're beavering away, they're, you know, getting in there and figuring it out. What's your take on day one as day two keynotes just ended? Yeah, I think, again, one of the keynotes today was on from a Luther AI and really helping them remain open. And I think they made a commitment to be open, not take VC funding. I think that there is some realization that AI is coming and how to use those models. I think what was interesting was that she said that AI is not ready for production from the stage, which I think, you know, again is, depends, I think your mileage varies with AI. But I think that what, like you said, this isn't trying to be that big tent event. It is trying to bring in new contributors though. So I think there's a little juxtaposition with the multiple events and travel budgets and who can go and see what, especially with this economy. So I think, again, we're looking at it from that perspective that it's truly a event that's growing, but they have so many competing events. And there's really not a lot of news and a lot of executives more getting down and dirty, getting in the practitioners, getting with the experts. You got Phil Estates from ADEVS Cloud on stage, now talking containers. We broke the exclusive news yesterday about CW open source as well as finding and fixing their internal tool. You got Amazon Contribute. You got end users here. I mean, it's interesting. I call them end users contributors, but end users are also now companies. So you got corporations like Google and AWS. And then you got companies like Discover, Lyft and Fidelity, they're companies too, but they're donating their stuff to open source. And they have a different agenda. So you have corporations now playing two sides of the coin. You got, I'm going to fund projects like Google. They're like the Sugar Daddy, a lot of projects as well as AWS. Then you got Fidelity, they're donating codes. So they have the Sugar Daddy for code contribution. So the collision of those two things is a power dynamic that's here to stay. What's your reaction to that? I think it's a good thing. I think it will keep certain things in check. I think that, and again, especially in the AI world where we're looking at it going, okay, is this going to be controlled by the open AIs and the Googles and the Metas and the Amazons of the world? Or is there going to be an open version of this that can be leveraged by everybody? Or is it just going to be usable via API? And I think keeping that check and really pushing that agenda, like we said yesterday, open source is one. And I think that that continuing to catch up with some of the new technologies like AI is critical and I think it's going to be pushed by some of the consumers, as you put it, the Fidelity's, Discover's, Lyft's, Metas, who are all contributors, consumers, and companies selling these things. Well, one of the things I really love about what's happening in this market with AI and we had Stella Biderman on stage walking through the open source AI from the Linux Foundation perspective is that the vision of the cube has always been an open source concept, a community concept where we contribute our code, which is to meet media, to the market, and that's been a great formula and it's been a great success for 13 years. Of course, SiliconANGLE is a free and open, non-monetized editorial organization. But the cube has been media. Now in the speech, one of the generative AI applications that Stella was referring to, and I want to get your reaction to this, interesting thread, there are bullets where powerful new class of AI models coming. You're seeing what happened to open source, leaks or donates their stuff. You've got the donation, Google's leaked memo shows that open source is powering and leveling up and beyond the proprietary models of AI. But then second bullet, she says, is capable of generating synthetic media. She's throwing the word synthetic out there, okay? Synthetic media based on natural language inputs. This is where I see the content as code, vision of the cube coming out where it's all data. It's going to come back down to data. We'll get that in a second. And then she says, third, develop primarily by companies and generally not production ready, which you just mentioned. So this is the power dynamic. Data is code, media is code, software is code. This whole infrastructure is code revolution. Feels like it's going to step function up. It just feels like, you know, go back 15 years when the early digerati and the clowderati of cloud was working on cloud for cloud. It was all about web services. And it's also about infrastructure as code. Look where we are. Okay, if you look at AI, you can say, okay, AI is code, data is code, media is code, software is code. The data underlying everything is huge. So the synthetic idea is where we're seeing kind of code pollution on one end, hallucinations on the other in the large language models. You've got graphics, you've got mid-journey, you've got audio, you've got deep fakes. We're going to see a lot of misinformation, Rob. I agree. And I think that the Linux Foundation is trying to get their hands around this, arms around this. I think that was part of bringing Stella from a Luther AI in. Again, not part of the Linux Foundation officially, but hey, here's another place that we need to stay tight and stay aligned with. And I think Hillary Carter, in her part of the keynote this morning, really went into what is the Linux Foundation's research agenda. And so looking at the research groups that are looking at and looking across all of the different projects that are out there to kind of actually start to build a roadmap for, okay, here's the ones that are actually touching on sustainability, for instance. And she talked a lot about that. And how does that map to what's going on with the UN policies and things of that nature? I think it's, there's still a, as you put it, they're at the lower levels, the infrastructure levels still. And I think there's a need for more promotion at the app layer. And I think that's where the open source needs to go is upstack, not just at the infrastructure layer, which I think is doing a great job at this point in time. Yeah, the other thing I want to give a shout out to Lisa Marie who hosted a panel with us, kind of a community, kind of took over the stage. You know, it's hard to give up the microphone, you know how it is on the Cube. She hosted for me, but she had a great panel. Shout out to her and Shilia from Comcast and a variety of other folks, Nithya from now at AWS on the chair of board. The women in tech and non-binary groups are here. That was a good shout out for them, seeing the smiley faces and everyone's happy. There's a, the vibe is electric. And I think this is not a big number event. That's drawn on the 10,000 people Rob, but it's the right people. And I think what we're seeing with open source and we've been covering this on SiliconANGLE on the Cube is AI is changing everything. They're going to level up. We're going to see a change in how organizations are run within the Linux foundation, how the business model is going to emerge, how projects will be nurtured, measured, and brought forward in an ecosystem way. Again, this is like a whole nother level. I think it's going to change. And we're going to see who will survive because there's some old school dogma in open source. And you got to watch out for that old school, holding on too tight to the old way when open source has won, it is the industry. Open source software is the software industry unlike when we got into it. There was a software industry, Gartner Magic Quadrants, proprietary companies. That's gone. Open source is now the software industry. I agree. And I think that it's going to be even deeper as we go along about how that becomes commercialized and how we see the companies are going to make money off of the open source so that they can contribute back because I don't think there's going to be another red hat but there may be a whole bunch of Hashis out there that are able to contribute and have theirs and build up a nice company out of that. If you look at red hat, okay, and this comes up a lot, will there be another red hat? Well, I think there's, you know, you look at Docker, you have a lot of guys from the Jboss world, you got Rob Bearden over there, advisors that have been in open source, benchmarks now involved, Peter Fenton, they know open source, that team's very focused, they're pure open source. But the red hat was situational. Linux came on the scene to beat the proprietary OSes, okay, and it needed a red hat to support it. It was the first mover, but it got such scale and such, it was so important to have that foundation element. It's just hard to replicate that, and that's inimitable at this point, but the idea of supporting something, like we were talking yesterday off camera, we were talking about why people buy open source, simplicity, speed, what was the other ones, a few things that we were riffing on, but there are legit commercial reasons to use open source and then have someone support it, and it better to have the maintainers as well. So the business model of freemium, I call it the freemium, do a project, contribute it, and then just be great at supporting it is a legit kind of red hat model, but not to the scale of a red hat. Right, I think it's just, Linux is so foundational to everything, hence the Linux foundation, and you start to look at it and go, is anything, any of these technologies going to be that? And I think, you know what I mean, you got Elon going out and saying, he's going to start his open source AI company to compete against open AI, I think that's great, but are you still, is it still going to get to that scale? Could that be the next red hat? Who knows, but I think maybe in the application space, you start to see people that are able to build that out, but I think what open source has done is democratized a lot of these different, all of these different technologies so that companies can embrace them, embed them, utilize them, hopefully contribute back. Open source is the way developers are going to collaborate, get to know each other as work goes hybrid, even though people want to get back to the office, you're going to have global input, and you're going to have integration and transparency and the success of software, no doubt in my mind, open one and is winning and is the model, it's got transparency, it's got community, which has ecosystems and moats for competitive advantages, so there's commercial opportunities and there's the mission of writing great software, and the end of the day, the security aspect that we talked about China last night at dinner is important and open source has proven that if you're turned to keep the lights on, you can see everything, right? So seeing everything is good, that's observability, so I believe that we will never revert back to proprietary except where it's needed. You can have a hard top on something, if it's not going to impact with something differentiated, I can see that working, that could be differentiated software, but to make something platform-wide, it's got to be in the open source and I think that's going to be the key and without it, security will be a problem and that's how cloud started because of open source, if you look at Amazon, it wasn't for the hypervisor, it would never be no cloud, right? So open source is the game changer, it's one, and I think how they handle security and data, which essentially feeds AI, it's going to be huge, we're seeing AI take over the growth in terms of the contribution. If you look at the academic papers hitting right now, since February, okay? Since the meta-leak of their code, since the foundation model started to kind of expand very rapidly, LLMs came out, I think chat GPT educates everyone, but this is not just about chat GPTs, but open AI specifically, and then it's like the advancements of capabilities equaling open AI have gone crazy. I've read more academic papers in the past six weeks than I have in the past six years. It's been incredible contribution. Everyone's jacked up. It's just so awesome to see open source. It's almost like someone pumped in vitamins and steroids and energy into the developer community. Yeah, I think it is, and I think it's really exposed the excitement for people to get involved. And I think one of the things coming out of KubeCon, Kutman, CloudNativeCon, and out of open source summit is how do they seize upon that energy? How do they bring more people into the tent? How do they bring more consumers into the tent as well? And I think that'll be a great effort and a great marketing effort that they need to do from an outreach perspective. You know, as we wrap up the conference, we have this great view here. Planes are landing. There are lots of people, open source projects, plane lands, okay, another successful project plan takes off, okay, it's off the runway in this case, the water. Sea planes are cool. It brings the vibe of coolness here. And I think we're going to see the Linux Foundation, I think bunker in a little bit and then come out guns blaring with a very strong AI response. I'm expecting the open source community to kind of galvanize around security and open source. While the CNCF continues to be that commercial piston of innovation, I think that's going to continue to rock and roll with that. And I think we're going to hear more of that today. What's your vision of how the future of open source was going to play out here in day two and day three? Yeah, I think it's about ecosystems and it's about how these different companies are playing in their ecosystems and how they have co-opetition within them, as well as, like you said, the differentiation that they're building out on top. And I think a lot of that differentiation comes from either SaaS or on-premise deployed versions of X that have a control plane that is unique and differentiated. So we'll see how this all plays out, but I think that's the key to this open source and cracking the code for them. Yeah, well, we're here. theCUBE's been here. President of Creation from day one, certainly with CNCF and CUBE company, every single one of those been the multiple Linux Foundation events. This open source summit is the premier event for all things open source. theCUBE is here on the ground covering and the big wave is coming. It's a tornado. You got to get inside that tornado. Otherwise, you get spun out. And I think that's going to be the challenge in this industry. We're going to see the community rise up. Rob, let's kick off day two. We'll be right back with our first guest on day two after this short break.


Aloha, everybody. I'm Richard Emory. I'm your host for today's condo insider show. And many of you know that for a long time I've been a member of the Legislative Action Committee, the Hawaii Council of Community Association Board of Directors and have been actively engaged in issues affecting the Association of Living in Hawaii. I recently was appointed to the National Task Force by Community Association Institute, looking at defining public policy with regard to reserve studies. And this all stems from the collapse of the surfside condominium in Florida, which now every legislature across the country is looking for ways to get credit for introducing a bill and how they will singlehandedly solve this problem with respect to condominiums and mandating condominium inspections and mandating engineering reports and things along that line. So I want to talk about that because it's been an interesting, I just had a third committee meeting today. It's been interesting to hear from all the different states, the different problems they have and how their legislators approach this particular issue. For example, in one of the counties next to Surfside County in Florida, their city council has already passed a rule that if you're a condominium, and you get an engineering report on your building for any purpose. You have to provide a copy to the building department of that county. We, a couple years ago in Hawaii, had a bill established that they wanted to mandate structural engineering valuations of buildings over 10 stories every five years and both the building department as well as the industry department, because it's too often and structural issues sometimes are hidden. It doesn't necessarily solve the problem and every time they, they pass many things of mandatory structural inspection, mandatory sprinkler system mandatory this mandatory that they indirectly make condominiums too expensive to live in, and we're not sure that they satisfy what the original issue was. So they had a condo association in Surfside. They had nothing to do with reserve study. They identified they had building cracks, and they had engineers look at the building cracks, and they had government officials say, yes, it's a problem and it's not that bad. The problem was that the owners under their requirements would never approve alone to fix the building. And so the industry was looking at that in this national task force and one of the questions was, should we as an industry support or not support owners rights to prevent a building repair from being made and overwhelmingly the people in this task force said, no, you have to fix the building in the law shouldn't allow owners to opt out of fixing the building because they don't want to spend the money. This is catastrophic loss of life and in Florida may not be as bad somewhere else but doesn't make sense, you know, and other issue came up was developers. Should developers be required to do a reserve study on new buildings and the consensus again was 90% said yes they just can't improperly or artificially give owners estimate of maintenance fees and don't have any real basis for what the real reserve should be, meaning you get owners to buy with one expectation only to find out once they do a reserve study more money is required, and then they don't want to go along with it because that wasn't in their original budget so should developers be required to provide accurate maintenance fees, including reserve contributions and should reserve contributions be my national standards, and everybody overwhelmingly said this is true. The problem is when you start getting always different states some people were saying, well the reserve study has to be done by a licensed reserve professional. Okay, well, how about a two year economy and more 20 an economy and only has a road. You're going to impose that requirement on smaller condominiums and someone the task force and yes, it has to be a licensed professional, and they have to pay the money Well, Hawaii, you know, let's the board have to do a reserve study by law but it lets the board do the reserve study if they feel it's appropriate based on the size and complexity of the association. So it's been very eye opening this whole thing but what I've learned is I've participated in many, many, many issues on national level of how associations we run is that number one, one size doesn't fit all. Number two, every state kind of addresses us a little differently. Most states, I think there's only 10 states that have a mandatory reserve law. And but now that we have this attention because of the building collapse. I can see all this stuff coming out of the woodworks that we're going to have to find a acceptable measure to deal with this and I give CAI a lot of credit for setting up a task force to look at a national policy and what we feel is appropriate. Recognizing all the one size doesn't fit all type of issues, but that led me into my thoughts that I'm going to apologize in the beginning. You might find it interesting to see some of the most recent legislation or litigation across the country on condo or association issues with the results were another state. And then maybe give a little short comparison with how that would have maybe worked and why, and my apology is going to be because I have to look at the, the nine examples I have here and hopefully we can get through all nine examples. I want you to look and I want to read two or three sentences. So I don't get this wrong so I'm going to look down from the screen. Well I read this to you and I apologize. And, but it's the only way I can figure out how to do this, but this is this month's 2021 August notable legal decisions. First one. In channel view east condominium association versus Ferguson, the Michigan Court of Appeals ruled that neither the Michigan condominium act, nor the association's bylaws permitted the association, the file a lean against the unit for unpaid fines. That's an interesting situation because the keywords are unpaid finds the lean was filed. You may remember last year when we talked about act 187 was 187, where associations here and why used to have to pay first dispute later so so station can find someone you had no legal right to dispute that. Unless you paid it first. And so if you didn't pay it then the old days association would put pressure on you by foreclosing on you, then by non judicial foreclosure. The law was changed in Hawaii. And the difference is that the association certainly has the right to put a lean on you in Hawaii, and foreclose on you if you aren't paying common assessments made to speed special assessments, apply to everybody. On the other hand, other charges against you, such as a fine or late fear legal fee. They don't have the ability under Hawaii law to put a lean on your unit without first offering you the right to mediation. And the mediation must be conducted within 60 days. If you get a mediation, of course I wouldn't ignore it because if in fact you go through mediation and you're unable to solve it. Then in fact they can pursue the issue of collecting the fine, although they can't put a lean on your unit and foreclose on it. And everything I just said doesn't apply to active service members in Hawaii. You can see the problems kind of common across the country, where associations want to find people. There's not much leverage because it's, it's a $50 fine is not much leverage get people to pay it but they got to have people follow the rules. It's kind of a common problem with how to deal with it and in Hawaii I've already discussed what it is. The board's got to give you the right to mediation, and they have to be mediated within 60 days so if you're an owner you think you're going to stall them out forever, that's not going to work. In Hawaii then they can pursue a collection action against you and exclusive foreclosure and and and certainly they can get a judgment and court theoretically for you. But the best thing is to try to work with your board and to get it to happen. But that was the Michigan case. Let's look at the next case. Here versus cat the lotto the Florida Court of Appeals held that the Florida homeowner station act, not require dispute between homeowners to be immediate. That's kind of a similar situation that the association upon a mediation in Florida against another they didn't want to go to mediation, and, and they made a request that they went to court. The Court of Appeals said the way their Florida act was written. It didn't require them to do mediation. Well you know in Hawaii it's mandatory. Mediation is mandatory by the board is mandatory by the person following the mediation which should be an owner in this case. So you don't have a choice you have to go to mediation. And yeah you cannot show up. And, but you're going to be in violation and under Hawaii law, they could then say, I'm finding a motion in court, force you to go to mediation. And if the judge agrees, you're going to have to pay all the legal fees they had by statute. We're not showing up and going to mediation and forcing the association or the owner forcing the association to file a claim in court and force you to go to mediation but you can see this all to dispute thing is, is a problem nationwide and, and frankly Hawaii has more options than any state I know. They give you facilitated mediation, evaluative mediation, non binding arbitration. And yes you can go to a board meeting that have a talk story session. Before you file the negation so you have lots of ways to resolve disputes here. And there's prevalent being a value of the mediation which is funded by the real estate commission here in Hawaii, and you have to pay half of the first hour of mediators time, about 175 bucks under a value of the mediation that judge you think the judge off retired judge takes the gloves off and tells each party directly what he thinks and tries to drive a resolution to the problem very successfully or the way. The third case is may versus Spokane County. The Washington State Court of Appeals ruled that the court order was sufficient to declare a discriminatory covenant void without physically altering the recorded documents. And even though a state law provided a mechanism for doing so, erasing a store record of racism would be a dangerous because at risk for getting and denying the horrible truths of racism. In this case what happened. There was a court order. But the governing documents were never changed to record the discriminatory language was in the governing documents and this court ruled, rightfully so, that fact that the documents are not amended and corrected to correct the proper discrimination had no effect on the courts order and future discrimination claims that the court order trump the fact that they weren't in the document. The fact you didn't put them in your documents doesn't give you a reason to look at that one discriminatory conduct and claim that association lost as a single issue within the court. And the court basically ruled the governing documents were were unconstitutional and requiring us so that's basically a written argument about whether you have to. If you have a court judgment or a court order is it only limited to the one case you just try it or is it, you have a problem down the road that because the documents were amended that you still committed a discriminatory practice because you haven't corrected this and the Florida court said yes probably rightfully so, seems to me pretty logical if you're governing documents are are unconstitutional or violate state law that you can't enforce them number one number two, it holds out to now and everybody in the future. And yeah you should amend your documents but whether you did amend your documents or not doesn't affect the order of the court and and future claims so pretty interesting but pretty predictable in that case. And we'll do one more than we're going to take a short break in turn mills LLC versus leisure acres association. I'm looking up these names by the way this is exactly what it is. The Indiana Court of Appeal ruled the property owner lost the right to complain about the association forcing their company documents, because the owner had complied with them for 13 years. I have a similar case on an expert in right now that where an owner buys in and wants to go back and say procedures who use when you amended your documents 10 years ago were incorrect. And so these documents don't apply to me. It's hard to believe people say that. But in this case, you have a situation where the government documents are there and provided to you when you moved in, you comply with them for 13 years. And then you try to say well they're not proper. And in this case the court said too late. You bought in. I don't know what the statute of limitations is on these issues, but you bought in you comply with them for 13 years with throwing your case out of court because you. This case is clear you understood them you comply with them. You never raised the issue before. Now because things have changed you want to not comply with them. So you assume the association. And at the end of the day that owner with cyan are you've lost. So on that note, we're going to take a one minute break. So I can again get myself organized and I apologize for having to look down and read this but I won't get it right. I don't do that so we'll be back in one minute and review a couple more cases and call it a day and look for a bottle of wine. I was the head coach for the Punahou Boys varsity tennis team for 22 years and we were fortunate to win 22 consecutive state championships. My show is based on my book also titled beyond the lines and it's about leadership, creating a superior culture of excellence and finding greatness. I feature a wide range of amazing guests who share valuable insights about how going beyond the lines leads to success in everything you do in life. I'm looking forward to you joining me every Monday at 11am Aloha. Welcome back to condo insider we've been talking a little bit about the surf side condominium and and the reserves and all the issues are going to surface out of that legally and otherwise. And then on top of that I said I want to share some of the most recent notable legal decisions across the country and what the courts ruled in other states and kind of related to Hawaii and how it kind of fits in and apologize anymore but I've got to read these things so I get them accurate so here we go. Westgate town home association versus curse. I don't know a pellet court ruled that the association board was not protected by the business judgment rule. When it decided an owner violated the rules, because the board failed to provide the owner, all the evidence of the alleged violation. So the board went after an owner for alleged violations of the rules but refused to provide him any evidence on how they came up with that conclusion. And the board took the position well it's our business judgment it wasn't necessary to tell the owner what he did well. I know you're probably looking at yourself for in the mirror and saying, he make this up no I didn't make this up. The board said the board because the owner was seeking damages, because he's saying I'm entitled to know what the finance and what I cause and I'm right to a hearing and and they wouldn't tell me if there was the business judgment will they just find me. I don't care where you're from I know we're a very liberal state and very much in the protecting owners right which I agree with by the way. Does that make sense to anybody. I mean I read that I had to read it a couple of times like you're telling me I'm going to find you but I'm not going to tell you what would cause us to give you the fine but the fine stand that some merit you did whatever you did and we didn't provide you any evidence or hang because it was our judgment it wasn't necessary. This doesn't sound very American to me, but anyway, the point I say don't try that in Hawaii. That's not going to go very far because you know how schools learn religiously overturned by the courts. The board was weren't given a right to appeal and weren't given all the information and, and in many cases house rules were declared moot. In some cases they were declared that households were abandoned you can't enforce any of the house rules, because the board didn't follow a proper protocol on exercising as house rules and it's fine policy, giving everybody a right to appeal everybody's right to appeal. It's pretty common sense to me that. Anyway, I find some of these things hard to believe. In fact, some of the ones coming up I find hard to believe let me give you another one. All right, Jeffrey Moise versus the Williamsburg Townhouse Corporate Cooperative Michigan Court of Appeals ruled that a housing cooperative wasn't level for residents injuries from slipping on an icy sidewalk in a common area, because winter conditions should have alerted the resident of the potential risk. So anyway, it's snowing heavily Michigan I thought Williamsburg be Virginia but anyway, it's snowing heavily and the guy goes outside he slips on the sidewalk. The snowy icy condition. As soon as the association for the injuries and the Michigan Court of Appeals said. Oh, you knew it was snowing out there is icy.  They're not liable. You knew the risk when you went out there, and people who walk an icy roads the streets and sidewalks should be careful. They're not their responsibility.  Certainly I would tell you if the sidewalk was damaged and it was broken or tilted or something with need to repair that so safe responsible for may not have had the same result. Here they're saying based on weather conditions, you know, I guess it's kind of like if you go outside on your sidewalk during a hurricane, you get hit by a coconut. It's responsible the association because the coconut blew off the tree and hits you on the sidewalk. You should have known better. I guess this is a should have known better case with the Williamsburg thing but they ruled. I'm actually surprised in some cases, the people file these lawsuits because if you know what I'm saying these are all from appeals courts. This means they had a underlying judgment from a trial court before this. I have a case right now in Kauai where the public path is on private property but it's a weird set of circumstances the association owns and they have an easement with the city but it's not quite clear the documents. Anyway, they've had several injuries. The county approved putting up with two signs at the entrance and once at the very top, and they saying, this is a dangerous jail the county has closed it, do not proceed high risk. And I've now had two injuries on that trail, people saying well I saw the sign but other people were doing it. So I thought it was okay and I broke my ankle in three places. It's not going to happen with the insurance in the courts yet but I mean give me a break you know there's two big signs saying no trails close this dangerous. They climb around the sign and the fence and go down and then trip and fall and break three places in their ankle. And it's like, how'd that happen must be the association. Anyway, onward. Board of Directors of Winnett Park condominium versus boardage. Illinois appeals court ruled the fines and legal costs were improperly billed to an owner, because the board did not set a reasonable date and time for a hearing and didn't give the owner any notice. That's going back to what I said earlier on the other case. You have these fines, you have to notice the owner. And then they're titled to a hearing and most people should say if you want to appeal this, you have I don't know what Illinois rules are collecting fine. I know in Hawaii, you can clap fine if you have to have this mediation and you have to give the notice and they have to write to a hearing and you have to go through some steps but in this case, the association didn't give the owner any notice of when the hearing would be, and went ahead and actually keep it on the fine anyway. I can't believe this happens. I said to people I talked to all these tasks for someone. You know why is kind of like the melting pot of the future condominium. We have 1800 condominiums in Hawaii. And I've seen about everything you can imagine in lawsuits and arbitrations and disputes but anyway, moving along. To Harmony House Westlake LLC versus Parkstone Property Owners Association. The US Court of Appeals rule that allowing a sober living facility to operate in a community restricted to single family residents was a necessary accommodation under the Federal Fair Housing Act, but the sober living facility operator be able to justify the number of residents desired there. And we kind of see that with childcare facilities people in a single family homeowner association want to have a childcare facility. And this case was a sober living facility. And with the federal court says well you know, it's a reasonable combination of that owner to come to the association say, I want to operate a sober living facility, but what the owner didn't do is justify so it's kind of partial win partial lot didn't justify the number of people he wanted to have in the home and, and those types of things but you know we always see these discrimination issues under fair housing. We caution boards all the time to be careful about when they get these complaints for emotional support animals or parking stalls or think to be very careful what they're doing and we suggest they talk with a lawyer because we have the Hawaii Civil Rights Commission here whose job is to defend the rights of the disabled. And I support that we need to defend the rights. There's a lot of touch and go stuff. I see some of these claims that go through this, but in this case, it was real, having a facility was deemed a reasonable combination, but the other hand, the operator didn't justify how many people he would be allowed to have in his facility. Moving along and we're running out of time. The last one is isn't all versus shadow grand home was association. The California Court of Appeals ruled an association was not liable for injuries to a visitor, walking across street after parking on a busy road. Because guest parking was not available. Pretty self explanatory as parking wasn't available and I kind of he parked on a busy road, walked across the street, I'd hit. It's not the association's fault that the guest parking was full.  I'm just, I'm just amazed at some of the things that people think they can say but maybe it's the lawyers fault because I think the lawyers are. Oh, if they got if they got a client, I'll give them a check they'll take any case. The reality of this is that that's kind of the kind of legal stuff that's going on. I would tell you you can expect next year's Hawaii legislature to address the engineering issues of surf side and reserve studies and developers responsibilities. I sure go anywhere, but we as an industry monitor all the lawsuits across the country and try to educate our boards and owners, as well as promote proper laws, rules and regulations and defend our industry. Now that note, I want to thank you for tuning in today. I hope you learn something. 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