What's going on everybody? Got Kyle and Sprinkles here. Late in sports cars. We're up in 2023. Topscore update series. This one's eight box mixer, four hobby, four jumbo. Number 14. Pick your team. Stop. Got Tony H with the Astros. We got Ben S with the Twins. Bill B has the Reds. Blair B has the Orioles. Cheye T has the Mariners. Derek I with the Brewers. Got Isuke with the Marlins and the Royals. Eric P with the Race. ENT has the Blue Jays. Jeff S with the Tigers. Jeffrey H has the Yankees. D-Backs. John N has the Rockies. Joshua has the A's and Padres. Joshua W has the Braves. JT H has the Giants. Juddson C with the Guardians. Ken H with the Red Sox. Leone G has Nationals. Luis S has the Pirates. Matthew L Cardinals. Mike C with the Mets. Paul K has Cubs. Ray G with the Phillies. Ray A has the White Sox. Scott V with the Rangers. Tony Y has the Angels. And William E has the Dodgers. Alrighty guys, good luck on this one. Case number 14. 3 to go on the next one. Got Rockies, Pirates, Blue Jays. Good luck guys. Start the hobby again. And this Chrome Dust is accumulating quick here. Cumulating quick here. AQ Brett taking the Twins. Garrett taking the Cowboys and both of our origins are certified. And Ray taking the Angels and Bowman Baseball. Thank you guys. Tend to go just mark down those remaining teams. Tend to go. Why is Washington underdogs the Oregon State today? I don't get it. I don't get it. Been on the road. Oregon State is pretty good at home. We're gonna say it's pretty good at home. Hope so, Joshua. Me and Dylan were talking about it earlier. Louisville and Washington both seem like some trap games for sure. Miami is bad. I don't know how Louisville is dogs to Miami. Miami is bad. I talked about Washington. Joshua said Washington, money line, easy money. Joshua. So I'm saying to you, I couldn't resist. I couldn't resist either of those, man. I couldn't resist either. Louisville and Washington. I took them both. Took them both. Both trap lines, I believe, with being higher ranked underdogs. Rock knows not. I always do. You can take in the Pirates in the Delight case. Two to go on that one. Rockies and Blue Jays. Prism Jordan. Walker on the rookie. G-man. Grayrod, insert. Come on, redemption. Come on. Brayden Shoemaker, Fractal Rookie for the Brapes. I think he was part of a trade last night. Titans Jordan Walker. Shuster and Shoemaker for someone not as good. The 250 is a rookie. Don't panic. I'm like so panicked right there for the Angels. The 250 on the rookie auto. Rocio. Irvin. What's up? Yeah, I think so. There was another trade, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They had another trade, too, I think. We got Diamond Dominance. Matt Olson. Rookie Neto debut. And it is J-Rod. Nice one there. Mariners on the Diamond Dominance Short Print. Julio. Diamond Dominance J-Rod. Trout and Vulpie. They are traps, right? Joshua is not just me thinking that. Those lines are weird. There's a Corbin Carroll. I took them. I took the trap. I fell for it to see if it happens. Nolan Jones on the rookie refractor. Action stars of Michael Harris. Matt Mervis for Fractal Rookie. Prisma Riaz and Corbin Carroll on the throwback. The Postop Potsy. Yeah. I like that. I like that. A little hobby therapy. Alonzo. DeGramm Refractor. There is a Oscar Coloss on the Lava Lint. One's a $2.99. Purple and Fuchsia. Fractors Dom Smith. That was box one. Definitive. Definitive is live over on Fanatics. They are hitting some good stuff. Got teams over there somewhere for a Monday night, too. Some pretty cool stuff there. That is really fun. Game used the logo, man, of Mookie. It should be Red Sox, Mookie, but I'll just keep it at that. Oh yeah, I agree. That is sick. I'll take that. That's sick. Yeah, guys. Definitive over there with Rich and Forrest. Definitely check it out, guys.  That is sweet. That's a good starter right there. Thank you, Justin K. Grabbing the Falcons in Certified. It's like, John, grab. Rockies, one to go. One to go in the delight case breaking next. Just the Blue Jays. Teams on sale. Teams also on sale on Bowman Chrome Baseball, guys. Just marked that team down. Those teams down got a full case coming here in just a few minutes. After a delight case, about an hour and a half or so from now. No sprinkles with stats on Fanatics. No, but we do have me and Sean tomorrow morning on Fanatics. Oh boy. Oh boy is right. Me and Sean tomorrow morning. It might be a mess. PFT, really. He is the guest commentator. That's interesting. I think he's the probably is the most famous JMU alumni. Oh, really? Maybe Steve. Steve Orvius. Could have been the celebrity guest pecker. That's the goal, right? He's a JMU or a GMU, I don't remember. I think it was JMU. Steve. Steve Orvius celebrity. Dude, what if he's Steve Orvius? Oh, Lord, man. Letting anybody in there now. No, you're not wrong, Timmy. Yeah, Sean being up in the morning in general is going to be interesting to see. He might be half asleep here. Sean being awake before one o'clock is kind of wild. Yeah, I agree. Otto on the first handful is a Josh Lesser to 399 or 299. Purple speckle Otto for the Orioles. First handful got an Otto. Got refractor Brewer Hicklin. Prism rookie of Michael Harris. Mike Trouty. Michael Garcia on the prism or the refractor rookie. A lava lamp. This one's Jamer Candelario to 299. Lava lamp nationals. Prism rookie of Tovar. Lopez refractor. Altuve and Osmer. Raiders game will tame him. Yeah, he's not going to be happy if that goes sideways. Mookie Betts refractor. Raiders are looking a little bit better. Future stars is Kassus. Moreno. Justin Steele. Negative of Dustin May. Refractor Jared Kelnick. Gregory Soto and Aqua is going to beat a 299 Jared Schuster rookie for the Braves. No longer a Brave to 199. Riley Greene and Kodak. Riley Greene. Almost forgot. Almost forgot. Riley Greene. Jared Schuster refractor. Never forget a golf. Never forget a golf. Bless you. Future stars gunner. Action stars Volpe. Volpe Titans. Yankees. Miguel Amaya refractor. Oh no rookie. Barrero Alonso and Garrett Mitchell on the back. All right, you guys two down. Two down. One to go and the breakers the light case breaking next. One to go in that. Thank you Dave taking UCLA and the Bowman Chrome U. I'm gonna get that going here in just a little bit. Thank you Dave. Some Bowman Chrome U. Again, ultra high end Almanac breaking tonight with Mr. Sam and Mr. Jake. Check that one out guys. Four to go in the first one. Get some ultra high end Almanac going tonight. That is starting at 9 p.m. Eastern. Starting at 9 p.m. Eastern. One to go in the next one. Breakers the light. Just the Blue Jays. Ten to go in a Bowman Chrome Baseball Full Case and 11 to go in Bowman Chrome U. Still spots available on ultra high end Almanac tonight guys. Definitely grab them up. Some live hit draft style. So if you guys do buy spots be sure to be in the chats. You can make your picks. You got all the cards out and then we'll do a live draft. I'm gonna get to pick their own uh smack the little card and like three packs flew up and out of the trash can. Be careful man. Snacking it down. I don't see. That's a game. That is a noon right? Not so. Might be ACC Network which we might not get. Box three. Got a Cola Sensor. Clayton Kershaw All-Star Game. Got a Refractor Josh Young Rookie. Blue Bob. Future Stars. And Otto is gonna be Grant Anderson for the Rangers Rookie Otto. Grant Anderson for the Rangers. Casey Schmidt Refractor. Prism Senga and Shersy. It says ABC. Really? Yeah. What channel? Oh it's this channel. I think we're already on it. I don't know. It says PN. I don't know. It should be one of the top ones though right? 3, 4, 5, something like that. I'm sure it's like ABC. Future Stars Volpe. Yeah it has the station code on there not the W. Okay yeah this is it. It's a LeMont Wade Refractor. Purple is gonna be Bryce Miller to 250 Rookie debut for the Mariners. Not bad they're M's. Prism Hunter Brown Rookie. Refractor Vinny Pascatino. Adley Rushman on the insert. Refractor Salvador Perez. Refractor Rookie of Casas. Action Stars of Cunha. There's a Greyrod Prism Rookie. Refractor Rookie. Jamer Candelario. There's Jordan Walker. And a Corey Jokes. Gold. Gold. Minidom. Nado. There's a Refractor James Paxton. And Gold Minidom is gonna be Nikki Lopez. Going to the Royals of 50. Another Gold. Yeah that's Trumalan. He might actually do that. Action Stars Gunner. Puts out a bounty on his own card. Refractor Wombie. Future Stars of Riley. You know I'm sure that'd be a cool card for him to have like obviously what could have been. I mean I'm sure he was happy with what happened in his career. I'm sure he's happy with sticking with football. That'd be a cool card for him to have though man. I just can't picture him as a catcher. Yeah right. He's a QB. Yeah. He's the Coke. He's a non-athletic. Well they were. Can't just kind of get that going a little bit. Yeah I feel that. All right just the Blue Jays left in this the light case breaking next. Yeah it's pretty cool man. It's a pretty cool how they set it up. It's just not really going exactly the plan so far. The drivers don't seem to like it very much. Or the locals or anyone watching so I don't know who's liking it so far. But I think the race should be fun man. Night race in Vegas. It's going to be some scenes jacked up on coffee right now man. Feel it. Nothing in my system besides it. Besides that? No well no Wendy's French toast thing. No.  And I was like what the heck is this? Sab and KJ are both asleep. I walk inside and I get a text from our other friend who wasn't even there yesterday and he says he's like yeah I ordered a McDonald's with the wrong address by accident. You can have it. All right. Appreciate it. It's like two cheeseburgers a 10 piece a sprite. I was like what the heck man. For the free. I literally was like driving into my house and there was somebody like parked right in front of the thing and I was like what the heck's going on. What are you doing? He got out of the back of McDonald's and he came up my window too. He was like is this for you? I was like I guess. I guess. I don't know. So then he put it on the door and I just walked right in. Thank you for your McDonald's. I was like uh he wasn't even here yesterday. How are you ordering into our house dude? There's a Jordan Lyles on the negative. There's some rookie Patrick Bailey. James McCann. Rookie Masataka. Yeah no I think uh I think they're going to be good with it. They'll get it. They'll get it sorted out. They're going to come back for sure. So yeah first race not necessarily a tragedy that doesn't go perfectly to plan. Daddy's Ward Refractor. Otto is going to be Matt Swarmer on the rookie Otto there for the Cubs. Fractor of Batten. Prism rookie Jake Bird. Vopey. Morrell. Jayrod. Fractor Kinley Jansen. There is a Thor. Nova Cindergarde 299. 399. Thor. Go to Reezy Prism. Fractor of Thor again and Josh Young. Jordan All-Star Game. There's a Gus Varlin Refractor rookie. The Deer Brewers. There's a Future Stars Michael Harris. Titans Jayrod. Prism rookie Logan Allen Guardians. Prism Elvis Andruz. Deer Cole. And game Moreno. I like Max Verstappen strictly because I have a very good card of his. That's the only reason really. I also like Lando. I like George. I like the younger guys. All the all the young guys really Max, George, Lando. But uh mostly Verstappen for selfish reasons. I just want to see him keep winning. Yeah man. Take as many championships as he can get. Keep that card going up. Exactly. Box. First box of the jumbo here. Good luck guys. Yeah I wouldn't mind seeing some lower rank teams like McLaren get a win. I like I want Lando to get his first win at some point this season. I don't know if it's going to happen this season but Xavier Edwards Otto. That one's a Aqua Shimmer 2199. Will Smith, Yordon Brandon. Williamson Refractor. It's funny on hard rock they have uh like the Constructor Cup thing you know the end. Yeah yeah besides. Without Red Bull yeah. That's pretty much how it usually is yeah. That's kind of cool honestly. Shane taking a couple tier one spots. James taking a couple definitive spots. You guys just see Blue Jays left in the next one. Do a uh Breakers the Lightcase. Future Stars Corbin Carroll. Prism Shay Langlears. Fractor Fott. Negative Rookie Corey Jokes. Jordan Walker Titans. Matt Strom. Prism is Runeto Door. Refractor Riley Greene. Riley Greene and Logan Ohapi. How about you Milan? Who do you like in that one? I know Matt's freaking got a shirt for everyone so I don't know if he has a favorite. Matt's got a shirt for every team. I think he's uh McLaren. Jay Narciso Crook. That's going to be a Rookie Otto there for the Red Sox. Space Rookie Otto. Narciso. Future Stars Adley. Jake Urban Refractor. Lava Lamp coming. Lava Lamp is Tristan Casas. Not bad there. 299. Red Sox on the uh Rookie debut. Casas 299. Dylan's Boy. Giorme and Refractor Juan Yepas. Turn these cards around for no reason. What are we doing? Gunnar Henderson. Kodi Refractor. Jayrod and Michael Harris Refractor. Prism James Paxton. Galle Josh Young. Insert and Refractor Jesse Wanker. Tops Chrome Update. Which number is it? We're on uh this is number 14 right now so I don't oh the random team one uh let me see here the Katarina just bought it as well let me see what that one is on the schedule. That is tonight uh tonight at five. It'll be the first break tonight um Langston. First break tonight with Sam. Five o'clock. That is Eastern time as well. Five p.m. Eastern. Blue on the Otto is the 150 Charles LeBlanc for the Marlins. Hey of course Langston no problem my man appreciate you buying in. Sonny Gray, Mookie and a Barrero. Good luck on that one too. Gonna be fun in the uh random teams on these. Just the Blue Jays left for the next one guys if we want to get the uh the light case going. Just the Blue Jays. Hanneger. My trout. Cole Reagan's Refractor. Mookie. Refractor of Jonah Hyme. Peter Lanzo and Kodai Senga Refractor debut. Danny Ricciardo is his favorite. He is a very entertaining guy man that's not a bad. So is Louis. I like Louis. Not a bad choice. It's Joey Weimer to 299. That one's gonna be Fuchsia rookie debut. Brew Crew. Montserrat Brew Crew. Altuve and Tommy Pham. Alrighty guys there's a jumbo box down. We'll get going on the second. Five touchdowns ten interceptions. Let's go Van Dyke.  Make it like twelve thirteen interceptions.  Alright guys just the Blue Jays on the next one. Full case of breakers that light ten boxes. $39 on the Blue Jays. Howard grabbing a spot in Definitive grabbing the Astros. Otto is Miles Mastro Boni Refractor. Otto 499. Cubbies. Martinez action stars Corbin Lee by Stout Refractor rookie. Just the Blue Jays left and we got 10 to go on Bowman Chrome Baseball. Got teams on sale on that one as well as our um four um football breaks. PYT's got certified two of those and two um origins. 75 Great Anderson rookie nice one there. Yellow Mini Diamond. Love the Mini Diamonds. The Rangers. Kodaisanga Prism. Brett Beatty. Nikki Lopez. Oh it's gonna be Refractor rookie Otto for the Rangers. Ezekiel Duran. Two 499. Rookie Refractor Otto. Brett Beatty. Josh Young and Caballero. Prism Barrero. Juan de Peralta. Joe Hope. JP. Route 66. There's a Kyle Lewis from New York with the Route 66 uh gamer tag. Brain Shoemake Prism rookie. Devers and Mareno debut rookie. Yeah I'm not winning right now Milan. I'm not winning right now. I would like to be winning that race but right now I'm certainly not. I don't think I have any camey on me. Need some though. Alright last team here in the Blue Jays. Let me mark them down here. Five more bucks. We'll get this delight case going. Looking for some Vladdy Jr. um autos all-star game autos and then um they have some game Mareno debut. You can get some color game Mareno in there as well for the Blue Jays. Vladdy all-star game autos. Probably our biggest chase in that one. Oh what's that Shady? What's up Shady? How we doing today? What'd you grab? Prism Michael Harris. Any Tigers? Um let me see uh Jordan Walker. Kellanick I don't remember any Tigers but essentially. I don't remember any autos at least Jeff. I think so. Not yet. Yeah no autos yet Jeff. Still got two more Jumbos. Definitely some Riley Green rookies and stuff like that but nothing crazy yet. Acunia. Elvis Andrus. Jordan Travis let's go Shady. Go Noles. Good call. Good call. I like that. Sabah my roommate has a green one of from last year too. I like that. There's a uh James Caprilli into 250 for the ace. Rich Hill Prism. Gonna be the uh National Championship winning quarterback this year. Might as well. Adley Rochman Refractor and Hunter Brown debut refractor. Might as well cop the uh National Champion winning quarterback. Would they're saying that? Action stars Riley Green. Riley Green. Louis Sarayas. Knock on some wood on that one uh a little ahead of myself there. A little above my skis on that one. It's all right it's all right. Thank you John. Thank you John taking the Cubs and Bowman Chrome Baseball. Nine to go on that one. And Paul taking the Blue Jays closing us out. Thank you Mr. Paul. We'll get the uh the light case going next. Hopefully we can see a uh live debut patch. Still looking for one of those. Future stars is Francisco Alvarez. Prism Ryan Walker. Coloss Refractor and as he yields over our refractor. I feel that Milan. I know uh Alvin actually hit a red uh Caminero first bowman auto earlier on when uh when Bowman just came out. I was extremely jealous of that one. There's a purple speckle that's gonna be Gerard Incarnacion to 299. That one quickly went out of my price range when he auctioned it so I didn't grab that one. Jake Byrd. Alrighty guys two more jumbo. That one quickly got out of our price range. That's true Shady that's true. He didn't have the greatest start to the career man but he is uh he is a very good player. Don't know if he was better than Jamis at Florida State but I don't know. But he has been very good. I agree with you there. Jamis was uh Jamis was a force. His freshman year. My freshman year. There's a Prism Casas, Masataka and Ballinger. Jamis was actually pretty nice this weekend too for the Saints. He came in for a card. He actually played pretty nice. It is Jamis time. It is Jamis time. Got uh AT Perry his first touchdown. There's a Israel Panada rookie there for the Nationals. That's why he's the best. Yeah he's the best runner and all overall for sure. He's also played more years so I like it. I like it Shady. Yeah the uh it's not bad passing up Heisman Trophy winners for sure. Heisman isn't like fully set either I don't think. There's a James McCann there to 199 Oates. Garrett Mitchell Prism. Stopped him on third. They're still taking bets on Heisman I should say at least. Obi-Harris or Fracter. JTrap still is in the uh in the discussion. Don't think he gets it but he's in the discussion. Yeah Pennix has been leading for a few weeks now I think. Say Jordan Groesch is the 250 rookie Marlins. Garrett Cole, Mike Trout and Mitch Garver. Are they punning? Let's go. Let's go. Come on Lou. Come on. Put Lamar in. This is Adley Rochman on the Future Stars. No one will know the difference. They won't know. Tanny Mindick Prism. There's a Vulpe Refractor. And Brett Wisely. Yeah yes I have a few good uh like two really good games here and that could definitely be possible. If he plays really good against Florida like lights him up maybe man. Freddie Freeman, Michael Harris on the rookie, Shay Langlars does the um do conference championship games apply to that too because they'll be playing Louisville I think. So if he plays good against them too could also help that. I don't know if they do apply I don't know if it's just regular season award. Prism rookie Garrett Stone or Gavin Stone, Corbin Carroll and Engler to Refractor. The biggest card of my PC is the Max card actually that I was talking about the Verstappen. I have a um one of one Ronaldo as well Otto. That's fire. Refractor is Aaron Judge, Freddie Freeman and Garrett Mitchell debut. I'm a boom underscore collectibles on Instagram if you want to check out some of my cards Milan boom collectibles.  Here we go. Very nice. Yeah CR7 CR7. Diamond dominance Corbin Carroll got out of iMac in a $15 random hit uh spot. Walmart Wade um Eddie Rosario. Not uh not a bad day. Not a bad day. Titans is Vulpe. Ozzie Albee's Judge and Mendic. Yeah again guys we have Forrest and Rich live in the other channel right over there. They are ripping some definitive baseball. Grab up some spots released they have defended it for us. It's a Josh Young prism. Grayrod Colby out. Let's go. Let's go. Already moving. Keep it moving. I slam. I had to. I can't respect my any man I can't. I can't either. I'm from. I don't know the 499 is rookie Oscar Gonzalez. Guardians. Dan's B Swanson. Goldie and a Gavin Stone refractor. No it's got a pretty big like dent in the back so I didn't get it graded. I just just threw it in a mag. It's got a pretty big dent in the back of it. I don't know if it's something I'd get replaced but I just haven't really tried so yeah I haven't graded it because probably wouldn't grade too well but I mean one-on-one Ronaldo I'm pretty cool with it either way. Yeah. Just sitting in the mag. Cameron Kitchens. No him from Boba Chrome U. Yeah. Miami. Cameron Kitchens. Jafari Harvey. Also Miami player. Purple is is reopened at 2.99. Purple speck a lot. 2.99. Got a Shohei. Gunner on the action stars and Jaymer Candidario. Last hobby box I bought I think it was Boba Chrome U. Boba Chrome U is the last one I bought. Before that I bought some Star Wars. The Top's Chrome Star Wars. I bought a Galaxy Box as well and a Finest Soccer so I've done like four kind of recently. Brett Beatty and JJ Bleday. Got a pretty cool Ronaldo out of the Finest Soccer too. It was one of the the man inserts. The man. Yeah I like those. I like the throwback. Mark. What up Mark? How we doing? What's going on man? What's going on Mark? How we doing today? Boba Shep Refractor. Local legend. Action stars Shohei and Kyle Farmer. West Seminole Fields legend Boba Shep. I haven't really decided yet. I'll have to see if something catches my eye. I need the new releases coming up here soon. Prism Corbin. Gunner Rookie and Matt Mervis debut. Hey what's up Chad? How are we doing today sir? How's everything? How's the Saturday morning going for everybody? Thaddeus Ward and Negative Rookie. Otto going to be Jainer Diaz Rookie there for the Astros. Jainer Diaz. Dolis Garcia. Boba Shep and Rookie Refractor of Tainer Baby. I can't believe Boba Shep played at us. Right? That's kind of insane. Local legend. That sounds like a pretty nice card Milan. Geez. Orange Wave Bobby. All about that. All about that. Yeah good man. Can't complain Chad. Having a good morning. There's a Colasa 250 Rookie debut. Got some football on here so we're good to go. Tainer Baby Prism. Soto and a Blake Sable Refractor. That's awesome man. That is sick.  Righty guys. Breakers to Light coming up next. Looking for a live um live redemption here or a debut patch. Zack Netso. So after the Delight case I have Bowman Chrome Baseball. Bowman Chrome Baseball Full 12 Box Case. Got the D-Backs, Rockies Tigers, Dodgers, Yankees Phillies, Pirates Cardinals and Rays left. All teams on sale on that one guys. Last nine. Ripping on some Bowman Chrome Baseball. Hey appreciate you Mark. I'm glad you're hanging out with us man. Got Rich and Forrest live on Fanatics. Live as well guys. If you guys are looking to uh see some definitive baseball get ripped. New release today. Mike Kale Garcia, Adley Rushman and Vince Velasquez. Forrest got that. Sarbas. Boy need it. Boy need it. Boy need it. So it's going to be Johnny Brito on the Rookie Auto Yankees. Johnny Brito. Eric Osmer. Oh I feel you Milan. Those were they were tough hunts. They were tough hunts in that uh 22 update last year or even Chrome Base. They were very hard. There's a Prism Rookie Jose Hernandez. Alcatara JP France Refractor. Lord Escurio. Acunha Action Stars. And Refractor of Jose Hernandez. Still looking at that? Yeah a little air catch to me. All the offenses on the field. Come on. Starting early with the sweat. There's a Matt Strom on the purple. There's a 299 on the Lava Lamp. Lava Lamp. Jared Schuster. Devers and Edward Julian on the back. Alrighty there guys. So that will do it for 2023 update series. Hobby and Jumbo 8 Box. Do a quick recap and then we're on to Delights. Diamond Dominance. That's going to be J. Rod Mariners. 399. Cindergarde Weimar. 299. Kossus. Candelario. There's Strom and Coloss. 2-2-50. Another Coloss Rookie. Just got Prillian. Bobby Miller. 1-99 was James McCann and Schuster. 75 Grant Anderson. The 50 was Nicky Lopez. For our autos we had Johnny Brito. Yanar Diaz. Grant Anderson. Panada. Crook. Swarmer and Refractor. Master Boney. 499. We got it. 499 was Oscar Gonzalez. Got Duran. The 299. Panada. Incarnacion. Lester. 2-50 was Groeschens and Stefanik. 1-99 Edwards. 1-50 Leblanc. And on the back we had a Diamond Dominance. Corbin Carroll. This one there. Rookie Short Print for the NL Rookie of the Year. Alrighty there guys. Get that one uploaded and get on to Delights.


kdrop to this debate. There are all sorts of issues about making it easier and things like much more publicity. The posters issue, I know locally that some of my party were overjoyed when posters were banned. Others of us just thought that that is really going to draw attention away from the day and people will not know it is voting day. Publicity is absolutely crucial. It might be posters, it might be the media, it might be local government itself, it might be what we do in the political parties, but we need to lift awareness about voting. I think that, particularly for young people, some very sensible suggestions are made. I think that when you think about it, the role of local government is absolutely fundamental to young people's lives. Schools, the quality of education, local buses, support for young carers, libraries, sports facilities, housing, licensing policy, community safety—lots of the nuts and bolts of what local authorities do in terms of service provision—have a massive effect on young people's lives. Maybe we need to do more to draw that out. I think that we need a cultural shift, and that is partly what I am alluding to in my amendment. It is partly about re-empowering local government. It is also about making the connection with local communities. There have been lots of initiatives in local council levels. I have been to quite a few meetings of youth councils, but they seem to wax and wane over the years. If you have a champion at the council level who is interested in that, they will promote it. We have the Scottish Youth Parliament. What lessons can we learn from their work in involving young people and having us shadowed? I have certainly met my youth parliamentarians over the years. They bring in energy, a perspective and a freshness about youth politics. We need to tap into that. We also need to tap into our own youth organisations in our own political parties. We need to do everything that we can to encourage our young people to stand for election, whether to fight a seat that is winnable or whether to fight the cause. It is important to give young people that experience and give them their responsibility and profile, and to trust young people to get involved. That goes for both our youth and our student movements. There are particular challenges in getting our young student movements involved, but we need to do more to make that work. I think that this has got to be about making local government more accessible and more empowered to take decisions closer to people and to actually make the connections. You could say that establishing the Scottish Parliament with a more proportional voting system was designed to do that, and yet, in our own votes, we struggle to get much above 50 per cent. It is a major challenge. Empowerment is part of it. There is a wider debate that we may have about this, but there is more that we could do. We need to focus on, politically, what we can all do in our different parties. There is a strong message that came from the electoral reform research, which focused on the point that was made particularly well by Cara Hylton about the large numbers of people who actively choose not to vote. It is not just that they are not aware of it. They actively choose not to vote. They do not trust us as politicians at whatever level of elected representation. They do not trust our parties, and we have to re-engage with them as political parties. At the local level, that is something that we all need to do. We need to make sure that we get more effective engagement. We need to look at the best practice to make politics more relevant. There is something about us not just focusing on involving people at election time, although that is crucial, but it has to be between elections. It was one of the things that I was keen to promote in the review of the Labour Party, which we conducted after 2011. We had lots of ideas because we had to go back to first principles and say, how do we do this? It has certainly focused our interests on representational politics in terms of having more women, as Anne McTaggart mentioned, in terms of more young people and people from ethnic minority communities. There is a lot more that we could all do as political parties to make those connections. I think that we need to do it. If we do not, people will not be connected and they will not see the relevance of voting. I think that the points that were made by Tavish Scott and by Alec Rowley about local government finance need to be addressed by all of us. It probably is in the aftermath of whatever happens in the referendum, but we need to start talking seriously about how we make local government finance work more effectively. It is unfinished business for all of us. I think that it is essential if we are to see local government empowered, not just as service providers. I think that that is where some of the tensions come about centralisation. When we have laws that we pass here because we do not want postcode lotteries, that leads to attention. We need to be upfront, we need to debate the consequences of that and still try to push power both to local authorities and to local communities. It has to be both and it has to be about a culture shift and we all have to be involved in that in the parliamentarian level and at the local community level and the council level. We all have to be part of that and there will be tensions but we need to own up to what those tensions are. Local government finance and powers for our local communities and the land reform changes and the community empowerment changes that need to come, I think that they are part of that process. It might be about co-operatives, community ownership. It is about making those connections not just in local groups but then pushing it back into mainstream politics. I want to end on a quote from the electoral reform society because it highlights the social justice perils of us not being engaged about the disconnection particularly from people from low income backgrounds. They analysed the 2010 general election and the cuts that followed that and they looked at the 2010 spending review and they showed that those who did not vote in the 2010 general election faced cuts worth 20 per cent of their annual household income compared with 12 per cent of those who did vote. In that way, they argue, unequal turnout unleashes a vicious cycle of disaffection and underrepresentation amongst those groups for which participation is falling and for whom politics seems to have less and less to say to them. That is something I think we all need to take to heart. If we look at local government expenditure, the long-term impact to the council tax freeze, we have debated that in other debates but I think go to that social justice issue of the people who vote are most likely to be represented best. We have got to address that democratic deficit. We need to make sure that we are open and we are more committed to making local elections meaningful and to local politics meaningful. It also is relevant to the Scottish elections. It is an issue across Western democracies. I hope that the minister will accept our amendment. It is promoted in good faith. We think that there are some key issues that need to be addressed in addition to the technical issues. I now call on the minister to wind up the debate that the minister has until five o'clock. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I say at the outset that this has been, I think, a very constructive and well-informed and helpful debate in taking forward that work. The Government do intend to accept and support the Labour amendment. I also like Sarah Boyack's description of those who have contributed to the debate and those who are here present. I was going to describe it as something of political anorax but I far prefer the term most enthusiastic members who can contribute to this debate than the ideas going forward. I think that the tone and the contributions of the debate will help to fuel that on-going work. Some would ask why we are embarking on this so early for the council elections that are some way away, but the Gold report taught us that we have to put those preparations in advance and to have confidence in the electoral system. We should engage first and foremost in a cross-party style with wider stakeholders and then put in place that the preparations for an election can inspire confidence because of the transparency and the preparations that have been made. We have very much learned the lessons of previous elections. I am very mindful of the local government regeneration committee's work that has helped to bring us to that point. In terms of some specific questions that were specifically raised, there will now be a new online registration process that will be quicker, convenient and more secure and I think that that will be welcomed. Another technical point was raised around rejected postal votes and, for the first time, the electoral authorities will write to those who had their postal votes rejected explaining why that was the case. It is also very welcome that people are made aware of that going forward and that will be the case for future elections as well. Sarah Boyack and other members covered very pertinent issues about geographic areas. Social class may well be an issue. I am very mindful when we move from door-to-door registration to a different process. Many thousands of people were taken off the register and that has had an impact and there is no doubt that, I think, how well-off areas are and how well-off individuals are seems to be a factor there. We need to make it easier to register and, as Mark McDonald says, to stay on the register as well and there is much work around that. Continuing with probity and security is important but also remove that mystique from the polling place. I remember a time when there was a police officer outside every polling place. There may not have been disabled access and even just at the European elections there, someone asked me, do I need my passport to vote? There is an issue about awareness and the ability and how easy it is to vote but not necessarily highlight, as maybe Mark McDonald did, how easy it is to commit personation by walking in and pretending to be someone else. There is absolutely something in raising the awareness of how easy it is to cast your vote. In terms of young people, we will engage further with Young Scott and others in the event in the SCC. It might not be as popular as the major attractions that normally attend there but it will be important to engage with young people to take forward that strand of work as well as other areas around gender because we have said, we agree, that councils and other places of decision making should more accurately represent and reflect the communities that they have to govern, making the governors more closer to the governed. There is a duty for parties to recruit more women to stand and put them up as candidates in elections as well but back to voting, it is much wider than just the administration of voting. John Mason very helpfully covered issues of convenience. Cameron Buchanan, I am sure, will welcome the electoral reform society on the stakeholder group contributing to this on-going debate where you raised a number of issues. We do believe that STV has, by proportional representation, stimulated better representation in local government but it does come with challenges as well. We do not support compulsory voting for the same reasons that you have given. It is bigger than the administration and the bureaucratic issues but they have to be addressed going forward. We will consider that good practice and continue to consult. Tavish Scott very helpfully covered issues of empowering local communities and financial accountability as well in rebalancing power. I think that, for example, the work that we have undertaken around the island areas ministerial working group will be a trailblazer and will help that agenda of the rebalancing of power. I think that we will be warmly welcomed by focusing on what we can do. I also appreciated the comment on the relatively youthful minister because I get that rest frequently as the years go on. Richard Lyle covered his election in 1976. I was not born yet, but I appreciate the contributions and how electoral. I know that he is a lobro, Presiding Officer, but I appreciated his commentary and how systems have improved over years. Excuse me minister, there are far too many conversations going on, particularly at the back of the room. Could members resume their seats? There is far too much consensus on how we conduct elections in this chamber, Presiding Officer. That is to be welcomed. John Wilson helped to point out a number of recommendations from the local government regeneration committee that the Government has been able to take forward, some of which I have identified. I am sure that it is not out of personal interest that Mr Wilson has mentioned the ordering of ballot papers. I am sure that, along with many colleagues, I welcome the announcement that the minister has made today. Is it possible for you to put all those announcements together into one package so that we can disseminate that information across our connections and networks? Yes, of course. I am happy to do that to update the local government regeneration committee as we continue the process of engagement and consultation. What we have already committed to and what we will continue to do is to look at the ordering of ballot papers and the question of randomisation as well. I thought that Anne McTaggart's contribution was helpful, but I would not agree with much of the points around finance and budget settlement, but I am absolutely correct on questions of turnout and encouraging more women to participate in becoming candidates. Mark McDonald made a very helpful point and intervention, pointing out that in Aberdeen City Council put aside the issue, but in the referendum, which was an all-postal ballot, the turnout was 52 per cent. For the local government elections, electing those people who would actually make the decision, the turnout was not 52 per cent, but 33.7 per cent, which makes the point around alternative voting methods that there is found so much consensus that we welcome in the chamber today. In terms of Kevin Stewart, he has covered votes for 16 and 17-year-olds, and there was much consensus to our surprise across the chamber that all parties have supported votes for 16 and 17-year-olds, not just in the referendum, but for every election in Scotland. I think that that will be welcomed by 16 and 17-year-olds across Scotland. That is where the spokespeople now are. I know that Cameron Buchanan might have some explaining to do to the Conservative Party, but we welcome that conversion of the Opposition spokesperson. I think that he will need to explain to the whips later, Mr Buchanan, with 40 seconds left. In essence, there is increased confidence in new methods and different methods of voting, and we have to consider them very closely and carefully as we look at improving participation in our democracy and in elections beyond the issues of just turnout to inspire people to vote so that they have confidence in the electoral systems and that we can ensure that we have a healthy, thriving democracy that builds on the momentum on whichever side of the referendum that you stand, but it builds on the momentum that we have right now in engaging with the people of Scotland in Scotland's electoral future. That concludes the debate on local government elections, delivering improvements in participation and administration. The next item of business is consideration of business motion 10272, in the name of Jo Fitzpatrick. On behalf of the parliamentary bureau setting out a business programme, any member who wishes to speak against the most should press a request to speak but now, and I call on Jo Fitzpatrick to move motion number 10272. Thank you. No member has asked to speak against the most, therefore I am now putting the question to the chamber. The question is that motion number 10272, in the name of Jo Fitzpatrick, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed to. The next item of business is consideration of two parliamentary bureaus. I have asked Jo Fitzpatrick to move motion number 10270 and 10271 on approval of SSIs. The question on these most will put decision time to which we now come. There are four questions to be put as a result of today's business. The first question is that amendment number 10262.2, in the name of Sarah Boyack, which seeks to amend motion number 10262, in the name of Derek Mackay, on local government elections, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The amendment is therefore agreed to. The next question is at motion number 10262, in the name of Derek Mackay, as amended. On local government elections, be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed to. The next question is at motion number 10270, in the name of Jo Fitzpatrick, on approval of SSI be agreed to. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed to. The next question is at motion number10271, in the name of Jo Fitzpatrick, On approval for the SNS Yao be a great to, are we all great? The emotion is there for a great to. That concludes decision time, we now move to members' business. Members should leave the chamber, should do so quickly and quietly.


I'm Hollywood, it's time now for Edmund O'Brien as... Johnny Dollar. This is Mitchell Kendall, Mr. Dollar, you call my office? Oh, yes, Mr. Kendall. I'm an insurance investigator from Hartford, Connecticut. I was sent out here to look into the Jarvis Wilder killing by the company that holds the policy on his life. Oh, Mr. Dollar, I'm defending Mrs. Wilder, not prosecuting her. I understand that. I'm not a prosecution witness, not yet anyway. I'm glad to hear that. Insurance money had nothing to do with the situation, Mr. Dollar. Killed him and self-defense. Edmund O'Brien in another adventure of the man with the action-packed expense account, America's fabulous freelance insurance investigator. Yours truly, Johnny Dollar. Expense account submitted by Special Investigator Johnny Dollar to Home Office Britannia Life Insurance Company, Hartford, Connecticut. The following is an accounting of expenditures during my investigation of the Jarvis Wilder matter. Expense account item won $150.50, airfare and incidentals between Hartford and Farmington, New Mexico. It was shortly after noon when I reached the drowsing western town. I checked into a hotel and read in the local paper that the county grand jury at any moment was expected to indict the widow. This is Alma Wilder for the murder of her husband. I contacted her lawyer by phone and a few minutes later walked into his office. That's quite a trip. Hi, Mr. Kendall. It's a lot of miles from Hartford. Not too many hours these days. Sit down. Thank you. Well, I read the papers. The indictment comes any minute, huh? Yes, it didn't take long. From arrest to conviction, with as little cost of the taxpayer as possible. That's the way they like it. Not that there's anything wrong with the way things have been handled, you understand? I haven't gotten too many details. Alma, Mrs. Wilder confessed when she was arrested and confessed again at the inquest. That was only yesterday, also only a formality. Why the indictment then? Why doesn't she plead guilty and get it over with? Because I won't let her. I want a trial because I'm going to get a not guilty verdict for her on the grounds of self-defense and temporary insanity. Those grounds have sprung a lot of widows, I guess. Do you object to that? No, not at all. I hoped you'd tell me she's innocent. A lot of money tied up in the policies for Jarvis's brother and his estate. None is due her. I wish I could help you on that. Were you planning on going out to the ranch? Yeah, I thought I might. Why? I wanted to warn you about what kind of people they are. What kind of? They've been the most hated people in this part of the state for two generations. Russell is a twin brother, you know, and he has not only the appearance of Jarvis, but every single bad quality. Selfishness, cruelty, conceit. Russell has a wife, too, hasn't he? Yes, Rosemary. And if she shoots him, I won't be surprised. But I'd advise you to be careful if you're going out there. Don't push too hard. They like to run people off their property. I'll watch it, thanks. Just what do you expect to accomplish, Mr. Dollar? I've got to make a report, that's all. Murder, it's routine. If you still have any idea I'm working with the prosecution to set up a motive for your client and turn it into a first-degree charge, forget it. I'm not. Well, they've been awfully quiet, and I've been practicing law long enough to develop a suspicious mind. It was nice to meet you. Thanks a lot for the help, Mr. Kendall. I'll probably see you again before I leave. The wild ranch was about 15 miles out of town by report some 5,000 acres in cattle range. I wheeled a rented car up a road that led to a large house resting on a knoll among a few pine trees. There were some outbuildings, and finally a grizzled character who got up from a bench to stop me as I neared the house. You got business here? That's right. Well, you'll have to wait. Ain't nobody at home. What kind of business? Nothing to do with ranching. My name is Dollar. I am here from the east to get a report on the shooting of Jarvis Wilder. What's that? I said I'm from the east. What's your interest in the trouble? I've been hired by an insurance company to get a report on it. Where'd you say he was from? The east, Hartford, Connecticut. My folks come from there about from west in the 80s. You heard of the Shrams back there? No, I don't think so. My daddy had six brothers, so some of their kin is still around. Hazardville is where we sprung from. You heard of that? Yeah, it's in the northern part of the state, isn't it? On the Scantic River. It's marked on the map. Yeah, I know the place. Mr. Shram, I take it you work here on the ranch? For more than 40 years. Worked for the old man before Jarvis and Russell was born. Where were you the other night when Jarvis was shot? I got a cabin to myself. I'd sit over there. That's where I was. Could you tell me what happened as far as you're concerned? As far as I'm concerned? Sit down. Sure. I'm an old man. I lived through some right troublesome time. I've seen a lot of men get killed. And I always sort of figured I stayed healthy because I never meddled with nobody's business, right or wrong. I'm not sure I know what you're driving at. Are you advising me to stop meddling? It ain't my place to advise a young fella. Besides, I ain't smart enough. You ask me as far as I'm concerned. Well, as far as I'm concerned, I don't know what happened. I still don't get you. You're telling me that other people don't know what happened?  I didn't come here to investigate the murder. All that's been done, and it's in the hands of the authorities. Jarvis' wife confessed. You know, I haven't even waited here for Russell and his wife. I got short. Now, wait a minute. That was it, wasn't it? You thought something had been uncovered and that I'd come to look into it. Isn't that it, Sram? You don't concern me. Yes, it does. Is there a possibility that Alma Wilder did not kill her husband? She confessed, didn't she? That's not what I asked. She said she killed him, and I reckon she knows better than anybody else, don't you? I ain't got time to talk no more. I ain't got a choice to do. All right, Sram. I can't hold you, but I'll have to go to the police with this. Not sure enough. A lot of trouble, young fella.  You do. I got a feeling you're going to be sorry. If it's there to be stirred up, I'll have to do it. And I guess it's there, all right. But I can make a deal with you, Sram. What deal? You talk to me and I won't go to the police. As an insurance investigator, I'm in a position to make a deal like that legally. All right, young fella. You want to grab it with a tail, you can. It ain't much for a certain what I saw. I heard Jarvis yelling at her. That's what woke me up. When I heard the shot, I jumped to the door. It was light enough to see and there was bows laying on the ground. They'd come out of the house. Yes. And it'd come over me when I saw him that she didn't shoot him because she was laying on her belly with her feet toward him. Like as if that's where he'd knocked her. Well, that wouldn't mean much, would it? I told you it wasn't much for a certain. But when I got to where she was, she didn't have no gun. It was on the ground next to Jarvis. Where was everybody else? They'd come out of the house, and I got out of sight. It stayed in my mind that Almond didn't kill him, till she said she did. Is that all, Shran? You're telling me everything? That's the whole of it. The way she was laying and where the gun was. I got there fast. And it come to me that she didn't shoot him. What are you figuring out I'm doing? I'm not sure. I don't see what I can make out of it. Thanks for telling me. I'm going back to town. You can count on my confidence, but if anything develops, I may have to talk to you again.  After talking to you, I think I'd better get to them later. And if you don't feel like it, you don't even have to tell them I was here. And I won't. It ain't my business that you come, and it ain't their business that I talk to you.  Back in town, I approached the authorities on the basis of wanting a routine report. The investigation was no more thorough than could be expected. A confession naturally would do away with the usual need for examination. There were photographs to record the position of the body, etc. Results of ballistic comparison tests to establish the fatal weapon, the 30-30 rifle. That was about all. The autopsy report hadn't yet been added. I debated on where to go from there and decided against Kendall, the defense lawyer. I got permission to visit the cell of the confessed murderers. Alma Wilder was a slight well-formed grenade of 24. She looked older than her years, but she would have been quite beautiful under different circumstances. I don't understand why you've come to see me, Mr. Dollar. You told them all how it happened. Didn't you talk to them? Yes. Then why have you come to see me? I read your confession. I guess I was curious about what kind of a woman could make such a calm statement about killing her husband. It was done and finished. There was no other way to say it. I'm curious about what kind of woman could be driven to the point where she'd do such a thing. If you read it, you know. It wasn't the kind of a woman I was. The kind of a woman he made out of me. In your confession, you said he'd been cruel to you. What kind of cruelty did you mean? I won't talk about it. Physical cruelty? Yes. I won't talk about it. Why do you want it? I'd hope maybe you would want to talk to somebody that might help you. I told all the truth I'm going to. I won't tell anybody about my life with him. I went through it. Now it's finished. I won't talk about it. All right. Time I've been here alone. Time since I killed him, I've been happier than I have for three years. It's the kind of a woman I am now. I'm happy now. I hadn't noticed. But I really wasn't after that part of the truth.  What about the twin brother? Do you hate him? He thinks it's about me. Do you? Yes, I hate him. I hate him the same way I hated Jarvis. What about the sister-in-law? I thought much of anything about Rosemary. Something brought me to that house.  I should have known then what it was like. Wasn't there anybody you liked out there? Or who liked you? Why? Any of the men who worked there? I never saw them. They weren't allowed in the house and I wasn't allowed outside alone. Why? I'm asking these things because I don't know if this confession you made will stick. What? Alma, right now only you know whether or not you really killed your husband. Yes, I did. If somebody knew you and felt sorry for how unhappy you were, he might have killed him. There wasn't anybody. If somebody thought enough of you to do that, you could be thanking him with your confession. It would be a noble gesture, I suppose, but if that is the case, it's going to come out. It wasn't. You could save everybody a lot of trouble if you'd tell me about it. It wasn't that. Nobody would do that to me. I didn't know anybody. I killed him because I hated him and I was trying to run away and he was trying to stop me. Don't do anymore. More what? Any more looking for things. Why not, Alma? Because you don't have to. Please. I killed your husband. Nobody else did. Nobody had to. Because I killed him. He was trying to run away and he wouldn't let me. He was going to take me back to that house. I couldn't go back. Please. Please let me stay here alone. You better sit down, Alma. I won't bother you anymore. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Alma. We will return you to the second act of yours, Julie Johnny-Dollar, in just a moment. There's one married couple you can always depend on for fun on Saturday evenings and to invite them over is as easy as staying tuned to CBS. They're Lucille Ball and that man she calls my favorite husband. You don't have to get involved in the strange predicaments they do.  How's for asking them in this evening? Lucille Ball and my favorite husband will be waiting on most of these same CBS stations. Now with our star, Edmund O'Brien, we return you to the second act of yours, Julie Johnny-Dollar. Hi, Mr. Kennel. I didn't know whether you'd be in your hours or not. Five o'clock? Oh, yes. I sometimes stay in the office until eight or so. I'm a single man, no place to do any homework. Sit down. Thanks. Well, I see you escaped the wilder ranch without loss of life or limb. Yeah, I made it all right. Nobody was there. Perhaps you were lucky. Did you talk to Crutchfield? Whom? Crutchfield, prosecutor. Oh, I didn't even know who he was. No, I haven't seen him. Would you like a whiskey? Uh, yeah, thanks. I think I could stand one. Good. Well, I went to see Alma Wilder. Oh. What's the matter with her? Well, just what do you mean? Oh, will you take this knee? Yeah, that'll be fine. I mean, how could any woman live like a prisoner with a man she hated for three years, wasn't it? Three years? This is the 20th century. Nobody has to put up with anything like that. Why didn't she leave if it was that tough? There you are. Thanks. I believe she did try to leave one other time, and evidently was discouraged from trying again. Please, that's what she told me. What? That she was beaten. Hard to believe. I know that. So was the case that broke in the papers last year the man had been locked in a room for 14 years. Remember? Yeah, that's right. Well? Shall we toast the human race, Mr. Dollar? Let's not bother. Mr. Kendall, did you ever give a thought to the possibility that Alma Wilder could be innocent? What? I mean actually innocent. That somebody else could have killed her husband. Mr. Dollar, if you come into any information pertinent to this case, I want to know about it. Well, it's not quite information yet, but maybe it will be. What was it sourced? I can't tell you that now. Why not? Came to me in confidence. I've got to keep it that way. But I faced Alma with it. The way she reacted makes me think that there's something to it. What'd you say to her? I asked her if somebody we don't know about got rid of her husband for it. How'd she answer? Naturally, she said no. And I don't believe it. Has anything you've learned pointed to the identity of this person? No. Well, until we can be more specific, this is worthless as testimony. Yeah, I know that. And I'd give anything to produce a witness that would blast Crutchfield's case from here to the state capital. Yeah, but there's too much to hope for. From here? Who knows? Well, her confession assigned statement a matter of record. Obviously, you're going to follow it up. Oh, sure. I'll have to now. Would there be any way to keep the whole thing confidential without interfering with your work? I don't know. We'd have to see. Of course. Well, there's too much to hope for. I won't start impaneling a jury until day after tomorrow at the earliest. If you're making any progress and need more time, let me know. I can delay that. All right, I will. You ought to be congratulated, Mr. Dollar. However, you came about this possibility. Case of plain fool luck, as a matter of fact. No, don't say that. You put us in the back seat. A green horn. We westerners don't like that, you know. I turned in early and the next morning, I looked up the arresting officer in the wilder case. The man who had supervised what little work had been done on it. There's not only a green horn, but a Johnny come lately. I expected a lot less cooperation than I got. Well, I'll be damned. I don't know what to make of that. She's a queer one, all right, but I never thought of nothing like that. Maybe there isn't a thing to it. But how did she act that night? Well, she was kind of numb when I got out there. That good day. She didn't talk till the next morning. Russell, that's the brother, says he was an eyewitness. His wife didn't see nothing, and the old timer that works out there says he didn't either. I suppose it's pretty late to run a paragon test on her, isn't it? Well, we can try. I don't hold much by myself when you're trying to prove somebody didn't fire a gun. When you want to know did they, then they're all right, I guess. We'll test her, though. And the rifle? Yeah. I'll send that back through again. Got her prints off of it, but we'll see what else. I know this is a lot of trouble. No, we need nothing. We don't get many like this, and to tell you the truth, I sort of enjoy trying to work out these things. It was about a quarter after ten when I turned into the Wilder Ranch Road. Passing the outbuildings I looked for, but didn't see the old man's tram. It's been there the day before. Yeah. Are you Russell Wilder? I don't business with anybody, I don't know. I think you'd better get back in your car and drive on out. I think you'll talk with me, Mr. Wilder. What about? The Britannia Life Insurance Company sent me out. A few things to take care of on your brother's policies. You aren't the salesman we bought from? No, I came out from Hartford, Connecticut. Why'd you come all the way from there? There's quite a bit of money involved. The company wants to be sure everything's in order. Jarvis and I kept our own books, everything's in order. There seem to be a few loose ends to take care of. Not that I know about. I understand you saw your brother's wife kill him. I saw it. That's what you told the police, but it's not true. Maybe I didn't hear you. Sometimes it doesn't do any good to throw your weight around no matter what kind of reputation you got for being rough. This is one of those times, Wilder, so take it easy.  You can put me off. It won't do you any good. Murder doesn't brush you off that easy. And you're in this one up to your neck. Is that what you got to say? I said it. You didn't see your brother get killed. You know it and the police are working now to prove it. I saw it. What were you doing outside at 11 at night? Didn't the sound of the shot bring you out? She killed him. It's not the open and shut case you thought they had against her. Why did you lie about seeing her shoot him? It didn't make any difference. I do things the way I think they ought to be done. You've got no right to ask me questions. I don't have to ask you anymore. I've found out all I want. Yeah, wait a minute.  What do you want? She killed him. It was the same as if I saw her. I know she killed him. No, they don't. She said she didn't. Now they want to find out why she said it. She's not the only one in the picture anymore. You're in it too. You could have done it. Kill my own brother. Your reputation says you could have.  Both of you seem to get a lot of satisfaction out of kicking your wives around. If that's what passed for love in your marriages, what can you expect people to think about the association between you and Jarvis?  Why not? For the insurance money and the ranch?  You know, Wilder, I think you would. I guess that tells me everything I wanted to know. I'm all right. Just been out to the ranch. I'll never see it again. And I finally met your brother-in-law. Or him again. How did you happen to marry Jarvis? Because my friends were all married. I wanted to be.  He could be different when he wanted to be. A long time ago, anyway. The rifle you shot him with, was it his? Yes. But you knew where he kept it, huh? Yes, in the bedroom. He kept it loaded? Yes. And you took it when you tried to sneak out of the house? Yes.  He was asleep, and you got up. And got dressed. Shirt and Levi's and some shoes. He didn't wake up while you were dressing? What have he had? Were you near the rifle? Yes. Was there a cartridge in the chamber? I don't know very much about them. I think so. You ever shot the rifle before? One like it a long time ago.  With a lever or with a hammer? What? You cocked the rifle with a hammer or the lever? I'm not sure. Now, what difference does it make? A lot of difference. You'd cock it one way if a cartridge was in the chamber and the other way if you had to bring one up from the magazine. You know that. Yes. Well, which way? I don't remember, and it doesn't make any difference. Yes, it does. One way would have left an ejected cartridge on the ground and the police would have found it. They didn't ask me these questions. They didn't have any reason not to believe your confession. It's true. Did Russell see you kill your husband? Yes. Did the police see you? Yes. He said she killed my brother. I'm a witness. I saw her. He said that. He was lying, wasn't he? No, he saw me. He told me he was lying. No, he didn't. He saw me. I stopped him. He didn't see you. He didn't see you because you didn't kill him. I did. Did Russell kill him? Did he? He could have. Come on. Tell me the truth, Almond. I can't stand it. I can't stand it. Tell me the truth. Mr. Daller. Huh? What is it? Officer Dandy, send word.  Can't it wait? He says it's mighty important and you better come. Well, it wouldn't have to be so rough, you know, Almond. How was it, you know? I'm not certain. Something about the rifle they was working on. I think we did her. I hope so. Here, look, right here. Now, this is the murder weapon. It didn't bother her a lot. But look at that butt plate. There it is. Yeah, jammed into the ribbing on the plate and into the indentations for the screw heads. More on the one side. We got that covered, too. You told me how she was lying with her feet towards the disease. Yeah. Well, that figures in, too. And I called back the corner about some marks they found in Jarvis's arm. Teeth marks. There, you see? Yeah. You've done a lot of work, Dandy. And next time, I won't wait. Anyhow, we didn't have a Marlin rifle like the murder gun, but it didn't make no difference. We took one of our Winchester's out on some dirt. We sort of guessed at the angle to get more dirt on the one half of the plate like that Marlin has in it. That's it, Dandy. You've got it. Yeah, we jammed the stock on the ground and pulled the trigger. The recoil pushed the butt plate into the ground and we got dirt in it about the same as the Marlin. That's good work. Say, could we phone Mitchell Kendall? I promised him he'd be in on this. Officer Dandy and I waited 20 minutes for Kendall outside Elma Wilder's cell and we went in without him. It took her a while to realize how much we knew now about what had happened. Why do you want to keep on saying that, Miss Wilder? It ain't true. It can't be. You didn't know anything about that rifle. You didn't have it when you left the house. Jarvis had it when he came out after you, didn't he? I'm scared. I don't know what happened. Well, he can tell you. He tried to stop you outside with a rifle. It was cocked. I don't know. We do, Elma. He tried to stop you and you bit him. He threw you with one arm and the rifle fell from the other. You were no off when it hit the ground. Everything fits in. You were lying in such a way you couldn't have shot him and got there. Nothing you can say now will change it. We know what happened. It's true, isn't it? Yes. Yes, it's true. Why didn't you tell us? You made a false confession and stuck with it. What made you do that? What were you afraid of? Were you afraid of Russell? I was afraid I'd have to go back to that house. You mean it's better to go to prison? Yes. I wouldn't have died for it, would I? But I will now. Why should you, Elma? What do you mean? He said I would. Russell said I would. He said, you killed my brother. I'm a witness. I am a witness before the law. And if they don't kill you, I swear no matter where you go, I will. And they will. That's the kind of men they are when they say if they can do anything. Oh, please. Please, you've got to let me stay here. Expense account item two, Miss Elenius, $185, item three, same as item one, transportation back to Hartford. Expense account total, $540. Remarks? No pleasant ones. The girl who reached the point where prison seemed better than what we call freedom is giving up both for a hospital where they hope she'll improve. It was truly Johnny Dollar. Yours truly, Johnny Dollar, stars Edmund O'Brien in the title role and is written by Gil Dowd with music by Wilbur Hatch. Edmund O'Brien's latest picture is the Paramount Picture Production, the Redhead and the Cowboy. Featured in tonight's cast were Parley Baer, Tim Graham, Bill Conrad, Herb Butterfield and Mary Lansing. Yours truly, Johnny Dollar, directed by Jaime Delvalle. This is Dick Cutting inviting you to join us next week at this time when Edmund O'Brien returns as... Yours truly, Johnny Dollar. There have been some changes made and it's faster, it's funnier, it's got new life and a brand new punch because Jan Murray's taken over. What show is this? Why CBS Saturday Night Musical Quiz, sing it again. That hour of melody, mirth and money that stirred on most of these same CBS stations. Yes, Jan Murray is your new host. Be sure to hear the news sing it again with Jan Murray this evening on CBS. Stay tuned now for Barnman Rose Caravan which follows immediately on most of these same CBS stations. This is CBS where you'll have to jack many every Sunday night, the Columbia Broadcasting System.


Social justice is the idea that everybody should be treated equal, no matter what they virtue, no matter what they vice, no matter how much they, let's say, in economics produce, they should all be the same. So the most secular social justice movement is really animated primarily by this notion of equality, of equality of outcome, whether it's economic outcome or whether it's social outcome, but they want equality of outcome. It's this altruistic idea that those who create more, produce more, who make more, who have more, who have higher standing for whatever reason should sacrifice what they have or should be forced to sacrifice what they have if the state deems that necessary. Social justice is unjust. It's the opposite of justice. To demand equality of outcome is to demand an injustice. It is demand that we take from those who produce, those who make, those who justly have earned what they have and give to those who have not produced, who do not deserve the benefits or the income or the wealth that is being taken. So social justice requires injustice in order to be applied in the real world. In the real world, people who make a lot of money, honestly make a lot of money in a free market, deserve the wealth that they have and to take money from them, to demand money from them or even to guilt them into giving money away is immoral and unjust. Every single one of us is different. Isn't that a beautiful thing? And to force us to be equal can only be achieved through violence, can only be achieved through force, can only be achieved by violating our rights. The only way to make me and LeBron James equal in basketball is to break his legs. And the only way to make me and Bill Gates equal in wealth is to do the equivalent of Bill Gates which is to take the wealth that he has worked hard to earn. I think most of us should recognize the important role that free will plays in our lives. Yes, genes play a role. Yes, who our parents are is important. What the environment we live in is important. But the most important thing, the most important thing in an individual's life is the choices he makes. The only compelling argument for social justice is to deny human nature. It's to deny free will. Since we are not responsible for anything we do, since nothing is really earned, then it's not ours. And it can be then distributed. And if it's not really ours, then we haven't earned it and we don't deserve it. And the whole issue of morality in a sense is out the window certainly of individual morality. The only obligation individuals have towards one another in a social context is to respect the right of the other individual to live their life free, free of coercion, free of force. So I have no right to inflict or to use force, to use coercion against any other individual in society. Other than that, I have no obligations outside the obligations I choose to have.


Hello and welcome. This is the Education Committee in the Vermont House of Representatives. It is Friday, February 5th, and we are continuing our conversation on H-101, an act relating to the implementation of Act 173 by providing grant funding to bill systems-driven sustainable literacy support for students with measurable outcomes. So the bill that we have before us is our working document, and we are really interested in hearing from you. So let's start with Mike Lamarton, and if you could introduce yourself. Thanks for having me. I'm Mikaela Martin. I am a co-director of school transformation in central Vermont supervised reading, and I'm here with my colleague Andrea Watson, who's also a co-director of school transformation. We work in partnership to build systems within schools around academics and social emotional with my 12th year in this position. Central Vermont was recently merged, a merged school district with the Orange North and Washington South. So we are the third year into our merger. Great. I would just add that our job titles alone, I think tell a little bit of the story from what was Orange North and now the merged central Vermont Supervisory Union, and that Mikaela would be more what you would consider the typical curriculum director in an SU, and my lens is more on the special services, special education side of things. I'm also here in my capacity as the president elect for Vermont council of special ed administrators, but again thank you for having us, and Mikaela and I submitted some written testimony regarding the bill, and we thought that today it might be most helpful for us to tell a little bit of the story, the story that started before I came. This is my fourth year. In CVSU and Mikaela and the team started to work well before I got here and I've been able to reap the benefits and just continue to help support the efforts, in particular with the merger that's required, some revisiting of the practices and re-looking at what was done and what made it so effective. So I think probably it makes the most sense for Mikaela to start just by talking a little bit about the history and the story and where we are and then we can fill in that and answer any questions that you have. Thank you. So when we came to work in 2014, it was really about supporting our multi-tiered system of support for academics. So literacy was an area of need that we had and what we discovered through this process is there's a couple things that we wanted to highlight that are critical to our success, one being it was part of a system. It wasn't just another initiative, so when we looked at our schools in 2014 they were failing schools and we had a huge over-identification for special education in the area of reading. So when we peel back the layers, what we realized is there were some key components missing. We lacked teacher expertise in teaching reading and we also knew that the major driver of any change initiative had to be the building principal and there needed to be a vision coming out of our central office that we were committed to. So those were two key components along with building a system that was rooted in data and accountability. So that's where we began. We thought it was very critical to start at our pre-K2 level and that's where we emphasized our professional development. So our professional development was rooted in research as well as the focus on foundational skills and knowledge for our classroom teachers and using a common approach for both our classroom universal instructions, what we call it, as well as alignment with our targeted intensive services so that the language was similar. Because we had a huge silo problem between general education and special education and we were investing a lot of money into one person being an interventionist through our title funds. So we flipped it and said, well, what if we focus our professional development on the classroom teacher while building their expertise for their classroom instruction as well as making them also an interventionist? So that model of building expertise at the building level within a system rooted in collaboration and using data as a way to monitor our progress transformed our schools. So that's where we want to emphasize this idea. We applaud you for the focus on reading, but we also emphasize this idea. It has to be part of a system that everyone is invested in and we were very fortunate to have classroom teachers willing to take on the role of an interventionist as well as their classroom. But we took a lot off their plates because we also created a model where they only would have to teach one or two content areas. So while building a strong social emotional system, we also built an academic system really primarily investing on the universal classroom instruction because we know that if we have highly effective classroom instruction at the universal level, then 80 percent of our students should be meeting expectations, especially at pre-K. Yeah, so what I would add to that that I think is unique about the work and the focus unique for me and my experience across working across a few different SUs in the state is this, as Michaela said, a strong leadership team. So the central office with the vision and the support and building principles who all bought into the approach. And this, as Michaela said, was larger than literacy. But if we just focus for this conversation on the, in particular, the K2 foundational literacy, that there was a universal curriculum universal approach and that in terms of equity for students and in particular in this SU, we serve a lot of children in poverty. So creating equity for them across the schools where there was a common approach to literacy instruction that is rooted in scientific data. All classroom teachers are trained and they're deeply trained. So Blanche and Jana are here. They'll heal from them later, but they are the folks that provided that training for us. And then the deeper work that special educators or interventionists might do is also built on that same foundation. So children who are struggling are not learning something different in their special education services from their Gen Ed classroom. The other thing that we wanted to emphasize, it wasn't in the written testimony, but I'm sure you're interested in. So what did that mean? What are the outcomes? And we're continuing to work on this, right? That's the other piece is that it's a never ending, right? We're always looking at where are we and what do we need to continue to do to support our teachers in our system? But I think remarkably over the past several years, the referrals for special education evaluations in particular at that early grade level have dramatically reduced. So this in conjunction with 173 is sort of like CVSU jumped on the bandwagon before 173 and said, we really don't care about funding. We want to put the most struggling students with the most qualified teacher to ensure that they grow and we're not going to operate under a wait to fail model. That special education has sort of perpetuated. So by intervening as soon as they recognize that kids are struggling with a highly qualified teacher, the need for referrals to special ed have gone down dramatically. I believe of course this year is a little tricky for us to assess. But in the previous years, in one elementary school in particular, we had as few as two initial referrals for special education in that school. So kids' needs are being met early without waiting for them to fail. And that's again the result of flexibility with service provision, data driven decisions, monitor careful monitoring of student progress, understanding when kids are struggling that we might need to do some assessment to learn more about how they're processing. But that wouldn't doesn't need to go through the full special ed evaluation. We saw dramatic improvement in state and local testing scores for children in particular at grade three. Their literacy skills dramatic, dramatic growth that has sustained over time. And then again, as we said, a more equitable experience for all students. Sounds like you're describing the model that at 173 is trying to implement related to the DMG report of building the the expertise in the general in the tier one programs, getting rid of the three nice ladies that taught reading differently to you. And as we used to refer to it, and setting in place the leadership to make it sustainable. That's what I'm hearing. As you look at our bill, the bill as it currently stands, we are looking to expand that to other areas using some of the federal funds that are flowing into the state to start to get some of these groups that aren't as far ahead with their MTSS implementation, that still are using reading programs that that really don't align with what we know about reading instruction today. Do you have any recommendations on the bill? If you had a chance to take a look at it, recommendations for the committee as we as we continue to work on this bill? And would you agree with the idea? I think we're all looking at multiple plans to support how we move forward post COVID. I think that if there's ways to tie it into the continuous improvement plan process, or the COVID recovery process, because I think that I think we're all initiative fatigue right now, especially around what we've experienced this year. And I think if there should be some connection to either the MTSS division at the agency, so that people aren't seeing as a one other thing we have to do or maybe apply for, I think it fits nicely the structure with what how we approach continuous improvement through that MTSS lens. I think it's critical that those five components are part of the plan. That's how we approach any initiative is through the five components of MTSS. It doesn't go away. It's like not another thing that we do. So it's critical. It's tied to that. You have flexibility around how you approach as long as it's the evidence-based approach of it, not naming something specific, because I think people have different needs based upon where they live or their communities itself. We chose a particular approach because that's what we felt was in the best interest of our students and the needs of our teachers. So we did a lot of analysis around what are the needs of our kids and our teachers too, because the teachers were critical to the success. If they were not feeling confident in what we were providing, they were not going to go forward with it. So our approach really has built confidence with our teachers and they don't feel overwhelmed. They feel like they're having a huge impact on students. This committee will shy away from actually implementing curriculum. That's not something that's within our purview and we're quite conscious of that. Would it help if the agency had a list of programs that would be helpful? I think the more resources for SUs from the agency would really be beneficial, because I don't think there's enough professional development providers within the state to even think about a large-scale implementation. I worry about that. We used to have a professional development agency, an ESA LAPTA, that's now gone. So I think we're lacking in providers for professional development. I'll be honest with you. I know that if I have new teachers coming on board, I've got to get my teachers on the list early for PD, because when we hire people, we have to train them. That's just our reality. But those slots fail quickly because everyone has the same needs. And I think there's going to be a tremendous need coming off COVID around academic areas and social emotional. And how do we get enough vendors to help provide that support? That was, I think, when we reviewed the bill. And again, definitely applaud the focus, the attention, and the recognition that it requires financial support in order to fulfill the recommendations of the DMG and the hope for Act 173 that districts do need some financial support. There is a little bit of concern that this be seen again as something in isolation that's not connected to a larger effort and the recognition of just how long this change process can be and will take. And that the two-year cycle isn't going to be enough. And I was a little concerned with the limited scope in that some districts who will jump on and benefit and others where there's still maybe not enough incentive or help. So we thought, right, we've got close to a million dollars here. How could that be used maybe from the agency level to help support all districts? Just some just some wonderings around that. As Michaela pointed out, I mean, teacher training is a critical component. Teachers aren't coming out of their prep programs prepared. They don't they don't have the knowledge or the skills to teach children how to read. And that's true for special educators as well. We have to train everybody that comes through our door. So that's that's a huge investment. One of the parts of this is also to create the idea of regional groups getting together to access professional development. We certainly heard from Nate Levinson of DMG, he can he can provide it to several to the same thing with several districts at the same time, thereby kind of creating a whole regional training, as opposed to just one small school district. Which for me starts to create the idea of it's a statewide implementation when those teachers are moving around, they're moving around with the same context. Yeah, no, we definitely felt like that was a smart approach. I mean, we try to do that as much as we can with our you know regional partners already, but yeah, I think that's very. Do you recommend that there be some prioritization as to who gets the grants that the agency can select rather than maybe taking the the one who has the grant writer in the district? I think there's has to be some kind of readiness. For implementation, I think we'll start the strong leadership is key. And then and then how willing already are they or what do you need to do to get people ready? I think we were fortunate that we had a population of teachers who were eager to do this this model. And we had a superintendent who had a vision and so we were supported through the whole through the whole thing. And I think leveraging things like your grant funding to teachers like their professional development funds. So because we were able to utilize our title funds to pay for this, it made them more attractive to teachers. And that we were just focused on one initiative. So that was the only thing they needed to concentrate on that year when they took the training and then they had embedded coaching. We weren't asking them to focus on other things. So they were able to really be intentional about their professional development. And we're much more open to feedback because of that. So I think it's understanding the stress of the job and then understanding what they need professionally and supporting them the whole way through the process. Thank you. We actually heard from Levinson as well that he said that the leadership and interest coming from the district is critical. Representative Brady. I think we're going to get at this a bit later in the committee today, but where is the high quality professional development on literacy coming from? I know part of the answer is certainly going to be Stern Center, but what are the other institutions, trainers, places where you are tapping into particularly Vermont resources? The Stern Center was our professional development provider and continues to be. We also utilize, especially in special education topics, some related to literacy, the Vermont Higher Ed Collaborative. And then there are a couple of private providers that we use in particular training related to literacy. From my lens, looking at children who have present with characteristics of dyslexia. So we really want to make sure that in particular special educators are deeply trained in understanding the cognitive profile of those learners and the intervention that again sort of marries well with what kids are getting in the Gen Ed classroom but then takes it to a deeper level and with a lens of understanding that particular population. We also try really hard to build internal capacity. Because we want to sustain the initiative, so it's important that we're empowering teachers to continue with their professional development so they can then become the trainer. So that's part of our goal. We approach it as one PD investment and then how do we continue to build that within our own supervisor union? And isn't that going to be the thing that's going to keep it going? Yes, teacher investment is the key to anything. And I think, you know, building principles come and go and when we just lost an incredible principle, but we had an internal plan and it continues to be great because the teachers are now invested in the success of the school, not just about central office or a principal. Now it's become part of the culture, so it's sustainable because they really believe in what they see. And we celebrate small wins and big wins and I think that's really important. But the idea of the teacher investment is what has really carried the success of this initiative. We're now in year seven. So that's really a great indicator for us that we are able to sustain beyond the building leader and the building leader that came in understands the importance of the initiative.  I need to tally up how much it cost us. It was as well over $100,000, but I would caveat by saying any CAN program that you buy is going to be that as well. And we had that experience when I arrived 12 years ago that they had invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in a CAN-BASIL program and it didn't do anything. So I just said, well, we're going to invest in teachers. That's what we're going to because I really believe in the MTSS model and I think that universal instruction is going to get us far and that was where we invested. Because this is not enough interventionist or special educators to catch everybody up. So we just approached it before the DMG report and that really confirmed our work that the investment in teachers has benefited all kids. And it's also tripled our capacity to provide intervention without adding money to our budget. So fiscally, we had to be really responsible to our communities. And this model helped us not add personnel, but maximize personnel. Representative Conlon. Thanks very much. It is always great to hear how something unfolds in the real world and on the ground and with the people who are actually doing it. So thanks a lot for your testimony regarding that. I have two questions. One is you had to join cultures when you merged and how that, how you sort of brought one to the other. And then the other one is just, you know, you took this on at a time, at a normal time. And our hope is that there will be equal enthusiasm this fall for a similar thing. But there's a lot going on with COVID recovery. And I'd like your thoughts on if you think it can be pulled off this fall as well. So culture change as you merged and then whether COVID could derail attempts to sort of get this kind of model into place. I think that the culture change is always challenging. I think part of it was coming together to reestablish outcomes for kids. So that was some of the early work so that we were clear about what we wanted students to know and be able to do. So that from an SU perspective, that when we merged, we had to, you know, join our documents and then create new ones so to get teacher investment. But the training was, they were able to share experiences from one side to the other. And then teachers were really excited to learn more about it. So it was a lot of collaboration and it eventually followed the same path. So the merger helped us strengthen the numbers of our resources but also provide support for teachers who were just new at it. So now we've got an internal support system through the merger. And then can we do this in COVID? Yeah, I mean I think professional development providers have gotten really creative about online learning. So some of our teachers were trained through virtual and we have embedded coaching still happening within the school. So it did, COVID didn't prevent us from moving forward. So when we had new teachers hired, they went to the training last summer and the internal coaches because it's a contracted service are able to be in our school. So I don't think it can, it will get in the way of a professional development plan. I meant more just in terms of people's capacity to sort of take it on. Yeah, I think it's that readiness piece. So I think where can your teachers take on one more thing? I think it's dependent on the school. You know, we're really mindful of that as we plan for next year because I do think the social emotional needs of both adults and kids are going to be still something that we need to focus on. So yeah that's a great, it's, to be mindful of that is absolutely essential. But I think like we've said earlier tying it to and you have in your bill tying it to the DMG Act 173 and MTSS and in particular MTSS so that it's not seen as one more thing but it's more of support for the work that that's already happening. And I mean earlier today, Michaela and I were on a call with our school psychologist, you know, we're just trying to anticipate the needs of our data teams of our, you know, as kids are returning to school having lost so much time and parents who are feeling pretty anxious about that, you know, how do we respond? So I think, yes, we have to be mindful of all the needs that are coming post COVID and maybe it's more critical now than ever that that we focus efforts around the literacy needs of our kids. This is also where we have federal funds coming in to use. Yeah, I mean schools are going to be inundated with funds, right? So it's and then it's going to really be helping figure out how do you prioritize and create systems that will sustain once the money is gone. So we share that title one funds are not being used. Are you also sending title one funds back? This was a kind of a sad thing to hear that we're already sending federal dollars back. I think the title one funding, it gets one of the things that we were trying not to do through our budgetary lenses, continue to add positions that we couldn't sustain. So I think it's an interesting problem to have, which we do, because we don't need as much support. So when you don't need as much support, it's we don't want to continuing add things that we locally couldn't sustain if federal funds went away. So it's been a weird time to do that. You know, I think it's getting creative about how you use it through your summer programming after school programming for tutoring and getting materials for teachers and professional development. I've leveraged title one funds a lot for professional development because we have our internal systems for intervention. So we don't want to use it for personnel if it's just another add on. I think too is the culture of sending a student away is something that we've broken is that it's our problem. We've gone from a me culture to a weak culture so that everyone is invested in the success of kids. And that's because we've really emphasized the classroom teacher being collaborative with a special educator or an interventionist. So that's the we don't have one person designated for intervention because we believe that classroom teachers teaching and also providing intervention is the best support for kids and it also keeps them within the classroom setting. So we don't have those positions designated as 1.0 interventionist parts. Are there questions? Comments? Okay, so we are trying to not invent something new. We're trying to use some of the structures that we have in this bill and appreciate your input, appreciate hearing that here is an example of success. I'm afraid I was distracted a minute when you were talking about the merger in terms of bringing the folks together. That are they all now at this point using the same? Yeah, and same. So that was your process. It was definitely a process and there was maybe a little of kicking and screaming but I think once like Michaela said the resources are expanded and when we have non-negotiables you know there are criteria that from Central Office we expect that how building operate but we also each building and their population is unique so there's autonomy as well for how they operate within sort of the system that says you know these are the things that must be in place data driven decisions you know those the universal curriculum those kinds of things. And you are not a forced merger? No. Were you an early merger? Yeah, it feels so long ago because it was such a long process. So we merged in 2018 so it was you know I think in the in the middle probably we weren't the first but we were one in the middle and it was it was a very positive merger as far as the three six communities come together. And here you are with rising outcomes? Yes. When we read the DMG it was like yeah that's what we do and we learned a lot from that as well and and the work doesn't end but it's the system that the leadership team and the systems of support are what are critical and then the teacher professional development and and again what I think is unique here is the content specialty model that goes down to grade one so we have you know in classroom teachers deep training in both literacy and math because they're focused on one of those subject areas and the the universal approach that is that's built on science right there that the teacher is the teaching manual right there is not a curriculum a canned program that that they deliver they possess the knowledge that then they're able to individualize that with kids depending on what they what the student needs and you have you have as part of your comprehensive assessment you yet you have screening currently yes and you have benchmark assessments so you already with the trained staff can identify a student who's struggling because of a certain dyslexia or other you know cognitive weaknesses you can identify you you can identify what seems to be holding this this child back and what to do about it right apply the right method continued work is really looking at what I consider talk about like tipping points at what point after we've been delivering intervention and students aren't making the progress we expect at what point you know at that point then what targeted assessments are we doing to get a better understanding of why they're struggling why they aren't making progress and then adjusting and sometimes that's meant we're going to adjust the provider we're going to we're going to leave this person and go to this person because we you know we know that they have the skill set that's necessary right so move up the tier ladder okay um excuse me this is um we've needed a little good news so I think that committee is happy to hear a little good news um excuse me also that seems to be aligning with the recommendations of dmg which this committee has taken a great interest in um with the census-based funding block grants around the corner should be able to give you the flexibility um in your funding to to implement the model that you're that you're doing we do have a waiting study that we're looking at um and and we're working on how we're going to be working with that guess is what I would say um some some thoughtful implementation great and happy to hear from you on that I think with that I'm going to give the committee a break um and we have the people in the room so it's going to be Blanche Podaysky and Jenna Osmond right so um um and then we have um superintendent uh Libby Bone Steel and the um the superintendent's association they cannot come until three um shall we shall we just come back at one everybody sound good everybody go take a little walk thank you for the opportunity to share our story thank you we appreciate it so we're gonna go off and we'll we'll just put up our we'll stop here and um