Welcome back to the Q&A and this is part six and this is take two of part six Why take two because I did something with the cable. I'm gonna touch anything right now Hopefully everything is recording correctly just in case some oil in there my back up This is my feedback critique microphone. So I got two things recording as a backup anyway If you're new to this how many straight E and I do sometimes Q&A it's been a long time usually I do Animation lectures I do product reviews review views. I do animation feedback stuff animation analysis clips I do all kind of stuff. I don't know. So that's kind of the pitch at the beginning So feel free to browse around the channel and look around if you like it subscribe So you don't miss any of those uploads if you don't like it don't subscribe Maybe you want to watch this and maybe you're convinced later on who knows but this is how this works now The Q&A is a bit different Q&A's are usually just me rambling for half an hour an hour Usually minimal edits unless I cough or I do things that need some edits But it's usually I read the questions just in case you are only listening to those Q&A's You can just hear the questions and then I talk about it and that is that Got a bunch of questions actually a lot today. I have 16 it's not 16 questions 16 screenshots of multiple questions. So it's gonna be packed and Why wait so let's start in question number one is really long. So As always gonna read the whole thing bear with me. I have the same question as Eric Malaco Now this has been five. I mean says here 11 months But since the last Q&A recording for the answers, I think five months apologize for the long break in between and got really busy And I don't remember what the question was that Eric had he says he's the same questions It must be something similar just for context whatever I'm learning Maya and 3d animation by myself. Your channel really helps me to learn more about 3d animation Thank you. That's awesome. Although I was 2d game animator I quit my job and decided to switch to 3d because I really want to work in triple a game game companies I am practicing every day. Sometimes if you lost and I ask myself am I on the right track Is there any specific exercises like a list or something that newbie animators start with them? Yes, there is a list I'm gonna put that in the description. It's a classic 51 exercises that animators can do. I think that was somewhat kind of the paraphrasing title, but a really long list really really cool. I would start with that Generally my answer would be whatever you do do anything that helps you with body mechanics Well, you can always build on top of that and then add your whatever you need action fights dance Acting performance, whatever you have But if your body mechanics are not not on track in terms of just being really solid and believable You're gonna have problems also problems I just have banana bread Some reason I'm just a lot of saliva. There'll be a lot of swelling in his q-names. Very weird asmr I'm very close to his microphone as well here. But anyway, I would definitely concentrate on body mechanics first So if you start brand new bouncing balls Pendulum that type of stuff into the classic building blocks you build on top of that to make it more complicated You got a ball tail Squash and stretch to the ball the ball can be alive and not physics driven It was more character driven and so on but definitely go with weight weight shifts jump sit-downs just anything mechanics wise Human two creatures can only be super helpful. Sometimes. I really don't know what to do I stopped my practice and start overthinking and asking myself. No, no, maybe I should try body mechanic Yes, or no, maybe I should make some acting animations and Sorry for a very long comment, but I'm about to explode and I need help Right and at the same reaction that I had last week and since my brain clearly I don't remember anything, but the same reaction again I I'm I apologize for this really late answer since he's about to explode. I hope Nilou far that's your new name Nilou far You're okay. Hope you found answers. I feel like I'm really really bad. It's really long Reply or it's been a long time since you heard from me. So I hope everything's okay. If you're still watching the channel Let me know in the comments. What did you find out again reiterating? I think anything animation wise that you're going to do will be helpful Even if it's you're not solid body mechanics, but you're going to do acting clips right now It's still practice for something You know, I mean it's like to me like anything even now if you if I go back to bouncing ball for students or a little demo It's just a lot of fun. It just and it's it's so less complex than humans her creatures But it still reinforces weight and timing. It's just I know it's I think anything you can do animation wise is Going to help you in some way then again if you're if your mechanics are not solid I wouldn't dive into an acting piece because then you still struggle with mechanics when you just want to concentrate on performance So whatever you do if you have time and the opportunity to be structured I would go with the principles build on top of that and really lean on body mechanics So that you're really good at them and then get get into acting pieces But again, if you just want to kind of experiment and see how things are you just want to try out some acting pieces Why not? Just know that you will have that that extra problem of dealing with body mechanics So live up. Anyway, hope that makes sense. Needle far. I hope a Pronouncing it incorrectly, but that this is okay as an answer despite being so late. I hope you're okay moving on The 3d fella writes here. Can you get a job with a triple a studio while using while only using blender? I don't know. I want to say yes Because I don't work in triple a studio I don't use blender and when I recorded this last week the day before I saw some stuff on Twitter where people were Saying actually that zero problems with blender on their resume and only knowing blender And I know my thing is probably yes, but I'm completely ignorant about this So do not listen to me 3d generalists versus specializing pros and cons Well, I mean it really depends what you want to do And what your focus is if you if you're if you're good at multiple things, right? The jack of all trades master of none some like that You have potentially a wider pool of job opportunities because you can do this this this and this but If you are Spread out in terms of where you put in your time to learn things you might not be able to really master something specifically So will you be able to advance in that area?  I think it's good to know a bunch of stuff versus me I only know animation barely. So I wish I could I would know more And by wishing it just means I just need to take time and you know make time to learn things I just have too much stuff going on. I don't I just I I would love to know more For that reason to have more of a job security type of thing Then again if you specialize, you know If you really like animation like I really like animation and I love Specializing in just that knowing whatever I can within that field be it camera animation creature animation human animation Props and effects and all kind of stuff. I just like that a lot like performance and and just mechanics That is just really appealing to me and I like Specializing that to be to try to be really good at that, but I think the pros and cons are valid Obviously on both sides. So I think it really comes down to what do you like and what works for you? Are you in an environment where or somewhere where you have? Multiple job opportunities. So you know that you know what if I'm a generalist I actually have more opportunities to pay my bills and to advance and no more It's gonna be more fun meeting more people different companies are great or you are somewhere where? That is not really a possibility job wise and the the companies are around you are more Specialized job opportunities. I think that's something for you again to consider So it's a pretty tricky thing. They both have their pros and cons I know it's a very general answer, but and it's gonna end up being whatever works best for you say like that Things to know when shooting reference footage I'm gonna link and blend in here my series about reference And have something else coming up. I want to talk about there's a reference but generally things to know for me it would be Set up your space so that it really mimics your shot as in the camera angle The props are you sitting at a table? It's your character at a table when you animate it Well, then you should be sitting at a table as well And if you're looking something heavy don't pretend You know like I don't hold back in your reference because you want to see what it actually does to your body If you live lift something heavy if you talk to someone tall with a tape somewhere on the walls you look up so to me all that stuff is The closer you are with your reference to your final product the less guessing you have right?  So I would just stay, you know be as true as you can to the final product In terms of setup Acting wise, maybe you're more comfortable just acting things out generally and then pushing it When you animate pushing the poses the timing and everything some people are really good at acting things out in a very cartoony way So there's less Changes to do or interpreting or anything some people should reference it and re-time the reference So then use that as a guide for their animation There's just many ways that you can go about shooting reference again like I said to me the setup should be As representative as you can and then I would not hold back As in don't pretend really go out with your energy if your audio line has someone yelling Don't just mouth the words but do yell because it's going to be different in your body Posture and language and everything and how you move when you actually have that much energy coming out And I think that would be that and many other things but leave a description with more information But I think that's kind of that just don't hold back replicating as much as you can as One more thing and I just escapes my brain I might remember as I continue this Demo real advice same thing link in the description put in my the series that I have about demo reels Which I'm gonna continue the main thing will be best shot comes first and make sure that your work is tailored towards the company You are applying to for whatever English So yes, so make sure that you know if you have something super for real that you don't send that to a cartoony company won't really work and Don't wait for people to To you know Don't think that they will watch the whole thing and then keep your best shot till the very end for this big reveal Because they might not have time so as shot comes first And that's kind of that Yeah, I think so Next up we have Anna asking here is there something you disagree with and or wish to change in the animation industry? Yes, for sure. I mean there's always something and this can be small something really big. I mean it really depends on You need what you you know, what what are your needs? What is your focus? What are the things you're missing? I can't really complain too much about My animation career so far, you know, obviously I had a bunch of help from the very beginning like my dad paid for school Right, so it's already like the financial hurdle of attending the Academy of Art, which is not cheap Has been solved for me, which many people they don't have that opportunity. So Then I would say access access to learning material. This is why I'm doing the channel Hopefully that it's helpful that I can just you know, give people as much information as possible But then also my information is in English. So maybe a better way to have all the material that I do neatly translated into other languages It's my dog since there's a free-flowing Q&A Where is he there is yes, where's my finger there right there? That's Indy Anybody listening to this going what is going on? Well, let me get up. I'm gonna cut this and pause this because I gotta close the door Okay, hold on. All right on pause so yes, I think access to learning material and access in a way that You know as many people as possible can benefit from it That would be one thing And that to me is kind of like not on the lower end, but it's kind of where it starts like you want to start learning about animation How how do you about it? Do you have I mean are you in a country that has infrastructure to learn online? Are you in a country that has frequently their online access cut off for whatever social political reasons like all that There's so many things that are outside of my Blinders where I can only talk about it I don't really have any experience with it. So I mean, there's there's a bunch of stuff you can disagree with Really depending on it will depends on where you're from and your your point of view I mean just now since I recorded this last week this week the whole activation blizzard thing came up That's definitely something you want to change within industry So again, it really depends on where you are what what company what type of industry the people you're with There's always something so to me it would just be fair treatment access You know enough possibilities to to to succeed within a company Enough access to be able to switch between companies without repercussions or problems or that's like the remote work is great Because you know before that you have to move from city to city or maybe from country to country That's really that's a massive pain especially if you have family and kids So now that with the lockdown and you have or you know the the situation we're all in with the remote working Has opened up so many possibilities. I think that's great. So stuff like that To me is a huge benefit But again, it really all depends on on Yeah, what you need and what your what your problems are so this I think this is a this is a question that would have so many topics to cover and Like a five-hour But yeah Here's though what you think or people watching like what you would love. What are your top three things? You would like to change Yeah, leave it at that How do you plan your shots? For example, if you have seven days for a single shot And then how many days you're gonna spend for gathering references or doing research and how many days you're gonna give to Execute the shot and is there any do's and don'ts for the shots doing tight deadlines? So how do you plan your shots? Me I plan all in the hand was orange and filming reference because I can't really draw I love to draw as always say if you watch myself, you know what I'm saying I love to draw what I can't my drawings confuse me Just I can't even do proper stick figures Which I really should change given that I do feedback and I draw horribly on Movies and clips. I have many many how to draw books now. I'll get to it one day But yes, I do plan in terms of my dogs falling asleep I Plan in my head I try to visualize as much as I can and if there's no reference then it's just in my head I don't start until I have a really good idea what I want to do. It helps me to fill myself in terms of Ideas that's what it was about the reference going back in your reference going back to previous question Don't just shoot like two three takes ten fifteen twenty fifty takes whatever even you have two hours worth of reference It can be a pain to sort through it But get everything out of your system that you're being too self-conscious about your timing and you in front of a camera Let's get more relaxed get everything out of your system That was the extra thing I wanted to talk about for the reference So same thing here So when I plan I do that I shoot a lot of takes just to get all the ideas out And I'm it doesn't mean that I have to stick to the reference again another answer to the previous question Just because you shoot reference doesn't mean you should copy it 100% unless that's what the style is asking for Sometimes you shoot a bunch of reference for more ideas or just for a small moment of knowing how the shoulder is going to interact with the elbow The push, you know, it can be a loose reference, but I try to do Enough quote-unquote homework before I start Well, that means and the good thing about working remote is that people don't see me working is that sometimes I'm just sitting at my desk for hours Sometimes even a day I was like this As the plane goes over here, you can hear the plane I just say do nothing and it I felt bad because you know if people work by Back at island was right there where the hallway was people walk past me and they would just see me doing nothing and I was doing something. I was thinking about it But I don't like to just jump into a shot without an idea Which sometimes you do have to sometimes deadlines or the turnover comes in and this is due tomorrow two days Whatever sometimes you just got to go in there really fast But ideally if you can if I can I'd like to have a plan and an idea and however I get to that is is what you should try so you're in your case I'm meaning that maybe you need thumbnails. Maybe you need you better at drawing things out Maybe prefer acting things out. Maybe you can do all in your head. But that's what I do here You're saying here, for example, if you have a seven days for a single shot, so I'm going to spend if I can a day again, this is really dependent on the deadline and what you have to do in your shot Sometimes you got 10 minutes Sometimes your planning is as you get your turnover and you're here the notes You see maybe the animatics and then you go, okay walk back to your desk and let's go Or sometimes you have time so I spend hopefully I can a day sometimes half a day really depends on again on on the deadlines Um, and then how many days to execute the shot? Well, how many days I can as much as I can as in Some shots are due like two days three days five days two weeks a month. It really depends what I have been doing And since I've been I'm recording all of this again. I don't know if I'm answering this And that's ahead of another question But basically, um what I do at work now is that I go for final every time I animate That doesn't mean I'm going to do a crazy facial finger stuff But I try to but it really all depends also on the time You mean like it's you have a shot and I don't want to do something rough because then there's more guessing work I don't know how is this going to be and maybe they want to show the shot Quickly to the client I'm just at this point where I go as fast as I as I can While keeping the quality up meaning Mechanics are there. Hopefully solid camera work, whatever you need and if there's time Extra stuff fingers face detail whatever just in case you can go for blocking plus or some smaller shots for final And then it's basically the client likes it and you just hear, you know final plus cleanup Like whatever you want to call it the dirty final and cbb whatever you guys call it whatever whatever company but that's kind of My goal is to show as much as I can While making sure that the most important things are addressed first So i'm not going to do something really rough in the body, but then have super detailed finger poses It's not that like you do the best you can with the most important sections first But if there's time I go and do more just in case you never know and actually that helped me a lot on the last show was on Before I left ilem was boba fat and it was a bigger sequence that we were all able to do And there were some bigger shots I can't say what it was obviously what about what it is that I was doing But some of them were also smaller because it was a longer sequence with like story shots Not not like damn a real shot or something big But every now and then you got shorter shots in between and for those like why not why not go full on And polish and then show the whole thing and then you just know you're going to get notes on the bigger shots Because then you might need changes or just more polish and the smaller shots are pretty much numb So that's kind of how I approach things. I hope that makes sense And is there a do's and don'ts for shots during tight deadlines. Um Do's and don'ts good question What I do during tight deadlines Is that I do two things I trust my gut in terms of Let's just not go with the first idea. You want to ruminate like you want to take your idea and then iterate on that and make the idea as original as you can and more creative So don't just go with the first thing that comes to mind but At the same time sometimes you run about of out of time, right? I just try to go with this sounds cool in the context of what the show is How to explain that so if I get a shot I go, this would be cool. It wouldn't it wouldn't just be Me looking at the shot in a vacuum where I go. Oh, this would be cool for the shot You have to look at what happened before And what's going to happen afterwards. What is the show? What is the style is it star wars something marvel and whatever you do whatever company whatever style you have in content you look at What would be something that fits this world this movie the sequence is character and then base all your awesome ideas Hopefully on that So it's not just all a single thing that you might want to put in there It needs to work within the you know the bigger context And then if possible I shoot reference because if I'm on the really tight deadline it's easier for me to Shoot reference and then take that reference put that into Maya and rotoscoping People might go as always rotoscoping creativity gone cheating whatever. I don't care for me. It's I wanted of my idea Fits the character in terms of the scale the look of the character how the character moves within the scene What if there's a match moves? There's an actual real camera is my acting in my movement Fitting the camera move am I in sync am I leading the camera behind the camera? I just want to know if those ideas will work in the greater context of the shot So scale the asset the camera the surrounding maybe audit cues Maybe there's an audio line from the actor in the scene and I don't want to I don't want to guess So I want to take my ideas and get them as fast as I can into the shot I know if it's something for real then rotoscoping references do not really a problem And then if it doesn't then I can reshoot reference or try something else Or you can get really rough version of your blocking lamp that way And then you can shoot your leader soup and then they can decide it's just to me I want to be as fast as I can in order to present As many ideas as possible if that makes sense regardless of how I get there Is this all keyframe imagination is a keyframe based on thumbnails keyframe based on reference Copying reference rotoscoping reference like or taking mocap. It doesn't matter to me Whatever gets the job done as fast as possible with the highest quality possible to present as many ideas as possible If I could summarize it like that that's my That's my approach currently Because I am working for someone someone else's deadline. They have their budget. They have their schedule So I have to kind of you know take a step back in terms of what would I like to do? What would I prefer to do? Would it be all out of my imagination and keyframes? So it's all me for ego or whatever. It doesn't really matter So I I put that aside and I want to work in a specific way to be as good as possible as fast as possible When I do things at home, I do things a bit differently But not by much. But anyway, that's kind of that hope that helps All right couple questions here how to work as an independent artist. I don't know. I am not one How will we get work? I don't know. How will we earn from it? I don't know either What is most challenging to work as an independent artist or to work in a studio again? I don't know Uh, but I will link the description. I thought I saw someone I gotta find that actually I probably last week remembering that as well The couple youtube animators who they've done a couple clips about Freelands independent stuff. I'll find it and if it's not linked today I will find it and then check back in the description. Maybe a couple days. I will find it Um, I can only answer the second part. What's the most challenging to work in a studio? I would say deadlines Many comes to work the thing is what's the most challenging work, right? To me when I say deadlines, it seems kind of ridiculous When thinking about the activation blizzard situation prints right now because I'm it's all over twitter right now So that seems like a petty thing like oh deadlines. Ooh, because that's part of work. You mean And I say this because there are people that have many other problems that are much more challenging and that can be in terms of harassment in terms of workplace problems and limiting in terms of advancing a career that are so much more um Kind of holding you back and and more mentally taxing than a deadline You know, I mean, so again, what is it was challenging? It really depends on who you are and where you work and what your needs are again for me I've been super lucky in my in my time at ilm. It's been really really great So that's why my answer is deadlines because the people I was surrounded with they were great It's always fun. We always laugh. There's no real like, you know, like political or like co-worker problems I know it's been there's always something that comes up, right? There's always going to be someone that does something weird or someone that treats you weird Not in a harassing way, but like really did you just have to say that like this sometimes typical job Situations because we're all humans and we're gonna have conflict. This is how it goes But it's nothing where I will go. I quit. I'm out. So For me, it's more how can I deliver the best word possible under deadlines where you wish you have more time But then you don't you just have one day or two or whatever it is So I think it's it's being able to do the best you can within all the limitations. I had to cut that out. I was coughing But again, this sounds completely separate from issues that other people have that are much more challenging much more Concerning so I really again depends on on where you're at and and what you're faced with it's kind of a super subjective What kind of challenges or difficulties you face when you work as an independent artist? That's the last question again. I don't know. I have zero experience as an independent artist. I have been full-time staff at ILM for 17 and a half years. So I have massive blinders when it comes to The outside world of switching companies. I've only switched to what are the company now I'm starting Warner Brothers next week So I'm learning a bunch of stuff about unions and contracts and negotiating and negotiating English all kind of stuff So that will be more fuel for this channel that I can talk about in q&a's But there are some other things that I have zero experience with. Um, so yes, so I'm going to continue With this other question here It's a long one. Let me read this whole thing. Could you please help us how to plan properly and precisely? kind of goes back to what I said before to me It's just having a really clear vision of what you want to do and in order to plan that precisely for me is Thinking about an idea and really brainstorming this idea as much as possible going through revisions This is an idea that's pushed enough Is this an idea that really works within the context of the character the sequence the movie or whatever you work on tv show whatever um, and then Either what do you need maybe you draw again for me? I shoot reference. I film Or find reference online. So that's kind of how I work and hopefully that's an answer to your question That's how I plan Properly and precisely and also just to fill it out there Sometimes I can do all that stuff and then I start to shop and it's and it's horrible All my planning nothing really ended up working So I either start over or I try to fix it as I animate And then shoot reference later for something else or wing the whole thing and kind of Kind of come up with stuff on the spot It's not always just because you can plan properly and precisely It doesn't mean that everything's going to go according to plan It might start off great And you might get notes from from a client and then the notes change everything And now you're running out of time to shoot proper reference or the plan more and then it's more catching up until you get to the deadline So just try to plan as much as you can I mean, you know the way Whether how it works for you and a quick pull edits because I ran out of Recording there. It stops after half an hour. Um, so it's going to say try to plan as much as you can But know that your plan is going to change So you are in a creative environment you can plan as much as you want to but people people are going to have more ideas And it's going it's going to go in a different way. It's never going to go as planned. Just be ready for that How to use video reference exactly how can we add things to it or remove parts of it? So again reference what I said before but generally I mean, I'm going to read the rest because it's all kind of the same thing I mean, should the video reference be the exact reference we want or is it not necessary? We can change it I use the combination of video reference and thumbnails thumbnail and key poses are easy What extreme poses like contacts direction changers are hard to draw because you need to be precise to show the extremes You know what I mean? It's hard to explain in summary It's hard for me to change video reference and don't know how to do it exactly Any help would be appreciated. All right. So again Yes, you can absolutely change and remove things. So the way you would look at a reference is that It's an initial guide And that can set you, you know, it's beginning to start But that doesn't mean that your reference only only has to be at the very beginning of your process You can shoot reference. It's going to be awesome. You animate and now you polish Shoot reference again. You need extra detail for fingers for facial stuff for close-ups You can shoot reference and look at reference at any point of your process For any kinds of reasons general blocking for Body mechanics something close-up for again face or fingers or contact points or whatever. So Don't feel limited that the process is Filming reference at the beginning and that's it. Absolutely not You can use reference whenever you want to and in terms of changing things Just look at whenever you shoot reference. It's going to be Is it going to be a springboard for something that You want to use later on or that's kind of you want to base your action on Or is it going to be something super precise That you want to stick to because you need to because of the content someone that told you to the style, whatever it is I think You you have to make changes To make the shop better.  It gives me an opportunity to try things out If I like something Over the process of shooting reference because I don't shoot reference, you know, three five takes and that's it I shoot a bunch of takes over a long period of time and then it's the later takes are going to be the ones I'm going to use because as I'm filming I'm realizing that's not good. Oh, that's a good idea I like this now and then my new take will incorporate all those ideas But that's kind of I'm I'm still fairly general in my In my acting and my Quantical performance, which you know, I'm not saying I'm a performer here But then when I animate I will take that And stylize it and do a character of that or just really push that moment and I'm not huge I'm not really good at acting things out the way it's going to end up being In the for where the shot I'm doing in terms of like cartoony acting and snappy timing I prefer to do something more general more naturalistic and real So I can see can I like this or like that? But then I take that moment and then I stylize that once I animate it I know some people do the opposite they they act things out and it's super cartoony If they look at the camera and then their acting is all like nicely silhouetted So they have less to do once they put that onto their shot It really all depends how you work Um and what is easier for you, but generally You can change things or move things whenever you want to it doesn't matter when Whatever whatever helps you Um, and you don't know if you don't know what to change just look at What is the essence of the shot? What is the most important part of your reference? And everything else is just kind of extra right is it are you looking for specific mechanics? Are you looking for a specific move a specific acting moment a specific look or head turn? Or you know it say you're going for like weight and you actually pick up something really heavy And you're lifting the thing maybe the main essence is that you just want to portray the timing of weight And how your body goes from you know hunched over to Stretching and then bring it up there and that's all you want to concentrate on So you are not looking at the feet at all in terms of are are my toes doing all kind of things What kind of shifts do I have in my ankles? Maybe none of that is important Maybe just it's just the essence of how do I show this to be heavy without extra detail? I would look at it in those terms like what are you really looking for? Um, in your reference in terms of what is needed to keep how that makes sense. I'm not well again feels like rambly Hope it helps Uh, there's this guy so that account called this guy. He says or she said I don't know. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry Since it's guy sorry, sorry. Sorry one more last question How do you give breath and settle to a character especially when we have like four to five frames? That's a good question That is a tricky thing. You only have four to five frames. I think what I would do Really depends on the shot. I don't know. It's a hard question to answer but I would say if you have A settle or a hold or whatever it is Whatever you do and especially with such a short period of time I would think In terms of what is important to the audience like what does the audience have to focus on? So let's say if you do like a and you hold I'm not even going to talk about your breath like let's say a hold and Your audience needs to look at the face I wouldn't do much in the moving hold in terms of what this arm is doing off-screen I guess for me it's off-screen But imagine that's on screen for you to see because then the audience might look down and miss what's in the face so if you do a settle Then you're gonna have to have something where it's not distracting from the focus If that makes sense same thing with with the breathing, but again four to five frames. You can't do much.  So it all comes down to the quintessential essence of that moment Is the settle and the breathing something because of Being out of breath hunched over so you can just do one big chest inhale Is it something like that where it's in the face and you do mostly nostril stuff and closed mouth? You mean like there are different ways of how to show breathing and I would look at what is the most important way to show it In terms of focus and what the audience needs to see again. I hope that makes sense Because you don't have time over four to five frames. So you have to pick something that is readable without being distracting and that Tells the story and serves the character again. It seems like very broad in terms of an answer, but it's the best I can do um At least that's how I would approach it more so than Well over four frames make me do a like a you know two frame inhale and the three frame exhale So at least it's not mirror and it's not the same. I wouldn't approach it that way Obviously, there are many answers that could give you in terms of technical things But to me none of that matters because it's all the technical things are driven by the intent of the character and what what needs to be Clear in the shot to the audience Hope that makes sense What should I do animation challenge or animation exercises? And I replied as in an online competition versus your own home exercises and this was 11 months ago And I never saw reply So I don't know. Uh, I'm just gonna answer this generally. What should I do animation challenge or animation exercise both? That is my answer why Because if you do animation exercises, let's say you're at home And this is why I was asking here So if you do stuff at home, you have no deadline So you can dilly dial you can noodle you can waste a lot of time Going through some something where no one tells you final or you run out of time or something So but it gives you the freedom To try stuff and that's why I like home exercises. You can pick and choose You are your own clients. You got your own revisions You might show it to other people But it's kind of you're free to explore stuff. Which is really cool The downside is you might get lost in having no deadlines I really thrive on deadlines. If I have an open end Um, I'm slower The more I have to do And with a type of deadline the more my brain goes into how do I Divide it into this this and this and how can I be as efficient as possible to get this all done Versus you have one thing to do over six months. I'm gonna do it during the last week I'm horrible at that Versus an animation challenge. You got a deadline. That's the massive pro where you know, whatever you're gonna do You have to hit that deadline and that's why I would do both It's fun to explore things at home without a deadline and at the same time Sometimes it's just really important to be able to come up with a cool idea and good animation quote-unquote good whatever Within a certain amount of time because you're always going to be fighting deadlines if you're going to work for someone That makes sense. So it's it's good practice to come up with something and do good work Um under a time limit So yes to both Have you ever received feedback on your work that made you feel like a horrible animator? What was the feedback? Uh, well, I'm not going to tell you the feedback because it would be work related And I'm not going to talk about work clients and stuff confidential But no horrible animator. No But the thing is I question my animation skills on my own already All the time every day There's always this thing of when I start a shop like I might have a great idea in my mind grades And then I start and then it's horrible And then I realize okay Today is the day or where they're gonna realize I can't really do all the things that I'm pretending that I'm able to do English again, I don't know if that made sense. And then as I continue Through either looking at what people have done within the sequence or my previous work On that show or generally or feedback in daily state always comes a point where it's going to be okay You get to a point where there has been enough feedback and you've gone through enough of the Crappy blocking where it ends up being oh, it's actually not that bad And then hopefully it can be better than just not that bad. It can be good and great But I think to me I always question things all the time and especially when you do something new After all this time, you know There comes a point where you're very used to certain actions and it's you kind of rely on almost muscle memory in terms Oh, this is why it works and so the graphic is going to look like But you will always encounter something where it's going to question your Your skills in a way um So I don't really need someone To tell me that I'm horrible. I'm already questioning that on my own and in terms of clients. I mean again I'm not going to talk about clients. Um But thinking about it. No No I'm really thinking I'm actually thinking about it. Did I ever get feedback from someone? Be it within work Maybe I feel like a horrible animator. No, it's more like it's more like me Realizing I didn't do enough In terms of this is really this was back on Narnia Where there was a something about a post change. I think I said that before one of my q&a's or something I feel like I'm repeating this story But short short story is basically I was supposed to change something which I did But I spent all the time in my perspective view Tumbling around the camera looking around now This is difference and I didn't check in off the render view And then I rendered showed it to the lead and the lead just flipped the image like in terms of old version new version And I literally it looked like I just moved like two pixels And this was hours of work and the look was really Did you really do any work and he wasn't that mean you just he just had that funny look and and uh He was totally right. I look horrible in terms of me doing nothing But I did do stuff. So it's not like it made me feel like a horrible animator, but it was more of a it was embarrassing and A another reminder and check mark or or like a list of things that are now in my head When I present things did I go through this did I check that did I you know address these notes? Like after all those years, you just have a mental checklist of what you should do and not do before you present Um, so yeah, I hope that makes sense What are main animation exercises I should do to learn body mechanics and acting in animation? Well, these are Different things. So what I would do It's a good question For body mechanics, I think it would be complex actions and weight So anything where you can start off with like a sit-down or getting up and then the jump in place to jump over something Jump from low to high high to low anything where it's there is a Weight shift or I can weight transfer Be it from like, you know standing to walking walking to a stop like all that stuff Weight transfer momentum in this general weight. I think it's really complicated and difficult to pull off That's what I would focus on and then you can extrapolate and do Outside force onto your characters you could be standing and someone pushes you and you got that tumble or Or for what a reason you do tumble. So I think stuff like that to me Yeah, that's what I would that's what I would focus on like learning weight weight transfer shifting um more so than like an arm gesture and really like That and just the general concept of if you as I'm thinking that because I'm doing this arm gesture Whenever you move something That body part is going to influence the rest of the body So I would practice those things while always keep in mind that if I move my arm up It's going to move my shoulder up and because of that shoulder move and this you can see my chest is moving as well But I want to keep talking to the camera, for instance, and I move I do this I'm going to counter with my head to stay Stabilize and you know addressing the camera like that.  I don't why the first gum jumps in my brain right now But first coming he does like a he waved before he jumps into the other I can't remember something like that And you look at this and if you do a big dramatic wave You're going to have the movement in the elbow that's going to move your arm and because of that it's going to move your chest around That's going to have some head wiggle. I mean all that stuff is There's going to be always something influencing the rest of the body I think that that's what I would keep in mind When you do anything bottom mechanics or anything general right in animation and acting in animation What I would say there as like a general answer Make sure Well, that's not that's a tip. It's not a main exercise. Well, how about this? Find exercises or make a list of exercises where your character is reacting and thinking before acting If that makes sense So you want to show thought process Otherwise you just then just becomes movement if the character is not thinking or we're not seeing that the character is Processing something and then reacting to something It just it won't feel as alive as it could be and it just feels like you're going through the motions So that would be my advice. So for animation excess for for acting it would be Even like simple stuff where a character just sits there and then you have outside influence like stimuli where it's like audio or something popping up and your character is going Or maybe like a sign pops up and a character reads and then has a reaction Just you want to really practice that like give you a character time to see process and react Yeah, close their exits Checking my camera here. What is this 60 minutes? All right Batteries dead though, but it's connected. Anyway, subtle break eventually my Q&A is a curse. By the way There's always something breaking For VFX animation shoot the focus be creature animation and realistic movements. Sure and camera For sure creature.  So everything has to Fit the physics and that world. So yes, it will end up being more realistic than stylized Um, and I would also focus on animation for cameras Because you might have to do pre-vis or post-vis or animatics Or an actual shot that's all CG and you gotta make it all for the real including the camera movement the handheld the lensing all that stuff So yes, yes and more That's my answer to Isaac What are best websites to find animation job? Um, it's a good question. Uh Self-servingly, I would say my youtube channel Uh during the animation minute my monday news thing I try to round up all the animation job postings that I can find That would be one place Um, but generally I get these from linkedin Linkedin if you follow the right people and the right companies and by right I mean the ones that serve you like whatever you're interested in those companies. They post job listings all the time um, so I would look at that then I would look at um twitter people post stuff there all the time as well and um I can linkedin you can fill something out where you can write down what your interests are what kind of jobs or job types And then you get email newsletters like this one called holly list I have all kinds of stuff coming in where They tell you you know animation positions or animation assistant or animation supervisor Within wherever you you designate it to be in terms of what city what country? Um, that's super helpful there as well. Um And as always I'm always forgetting and someone always replies or lets me know and I should really write this down and put that in a safe folder. There is someone that keeps a uh, uh, like an excel sheet of google doc with all the um game development jobs like just game related jobs as well so Yeah linkedin for sure and twitter these are my two go-to places for job postings How to animate realistic and cartoony body mechanics Um, it's a good question. Well Anyway Again, this goes back to the whole reference discussion that we had before or we had that I was rambling about But you can choose reference and not stylize your movements where it's you just move the way you move realistically And if you use and if that's your your beginning For realistic body mechanics, then you're you're fairly set because you can see how things move realistically And if you go into cartoony body mechanics Then again, you will take the the essence of what you just did like the main idea and then take that and stylize that and caricature that So it fits the style of your cartoony mechanics, right? Because cartoony can be somewhat naturalistic cartoony to like super snappy one frame post-changers.  That was real But oh, I like this idea of collapse and shoulder spike. Maybe that's the like something that you take Uh into your shop So yes, so how to animate realistic and cartoony body mechanics. Um, it would be And I say reference because that's how I plan things, but maybe your planning is um All just through thumbnails And then you just rely a lot on your sense of timing because the thing is the difference between realistic and cartoony body Mechanics is how much you stylize and caricature a certain moment and that will be visible through timing So really look at how far can you push the timing? So it still tells the story, but it really reduced everything to to its essence. I was like saying essence. Um So yes, that would be my my generalized answer to that There's more to say, but I think yeah, I'm gonna leave it at that how to animate realistic body mechanics because the thing is even cartoony body mechanics still have to be based on functioning real-world mechanics I don't mean that you know when the road runner goes off the the cliff and floats in in the air and then falls Clearly in cartoony land you can bend gravity and rules and all kinds of that's not what I mean But if you have if you have a character And that's my thing is always for mechanics and for my students that if you take it If do a side shift or a side step and you go from this to this and you want to go the other way If your body momentum goes this way the only way you can change direction Is either by someone pushing you the other way you have your hand out you pull yourself over there Or your leg that's pointed This way can push me this way if that makes sense. So if you are completely off balance How are you going to be able to move the other way? So If you take that wrong off balance pose and put that into a cartoony animation Then it has to be really cartoon in terms of I'm so off balance that I can now stretch my leg out And that leg does like a twirl or gets extra long for that change or Or you're off balance and you do like a big anticipation with your arm that then Snaps you over I mean you can cheat and bend the rules and be super cartoony to go You know around those limitations But if you're not Realistic if you're not not really if you're not successful in that it's still gonna look wrong Does that make sense? Right? So you still have to look at proper posing and balance and weight shifts And of course the more you know the cartoony or the stylized the more stylized you get the more you can go around this and make it Absolutely crazy But if we talk about you know for some people realistic Uh, oh cartoony animation that says disney Disney is for sure cartoony, but it's not super pushed like all the stuff you can see on there On there as in like my screen in theaters or on tv or whatever so For disney animation you still have to look at proper balance Versus cartoony tv shows can really go around that like around that You know limitation of what it's supposed to be when you let's say change direction. It's very rambly very rambly, but I hope that makes sense Basically my whole q&a the umbrella runs. I hope this makes sense How long is the deadline for a big studio like pixar or whatever? I don't know pixar. I don't work there But I can tell you the whatever part Uh that actually I don't have an answer because the the answer is it depends Which is always the the complete bs answer. Um I don't know it depends You're you know, how long is the deadline a deadline could be five hours Could be a day could be two days could be five days could be a month It really all depends on the complexity Uh on the schedule You might have something really complex and at the beginning of the show you got enough time like a week or two And then at the end of the show you only have three days It really depends it depends on where you're at in your cycle of the show And the complexity of the shot and it's I can't really unfortunately answer. How about this? How long is the deadline? always too short Hi gene, it's john or jade I was wondering what is your opinion on social media as a way to distribute ideas and animations as a way to promote oneself Do you have any advice on how to approach this? Is it worth it to pursue? Pursuit an internet presence as an independent animator. Thanks. Uh good questions again I I don't do independent animation. So I can't really answer that. I'm checking my phone because my wife just called I don't see a text Maybe it's not that important. I'm sure it's totally important. It's probably about lunch. Um I think self promotion nowadays I mean all depends how comfortable you are with this Like I spam my twitter account Incessantly every day with Workshop critiques like when I post something on youtube I post it on my on my twitter feed and then I post I post it on my blog as well and that blog is usually a couple hours later and that gets an automatic Tweet as well. And then the next day I tweet In case you missed it either just a youtube link or like a short clip and this could be I could be posting about One youtube clip three or four times on my account and for some people they still miss everything Like oh, I didn't know you did this and I'm sure a lot of people go like really again You just you just never know who sees what a what point it's probably Less than you think whenever I think this is probably too much and I should stop It's probably only reaching two percent of the people that I would like it to see. I don't know that's kind of you just never know so Any advice on how to approach this? I think Social media is is really great for visibility like for me. I love it just because I have a very curated twitter and instagram feed where it's just it is very specific artists and It it's so helpful because it's every time I open twitter I'm not following news or whatever that gives me the drama or the conflict or just the horrible stuff that goes on in this world I'm also I'm consciously avoiding and creating a very very What's the word like in a blindfold about a like a blinder or a very narrow View of what's going on in the world because I'm always seeing something either through trending things or people that retweet stuff But I try to keep my feed Educational for myself. It's very selfish where I look at people's work There could be movie news animation news Demo reels like I like that stuff. It's like it's like another constant stream of education for me and Then that goes the other way So for you as an artist you can promote yourself in in in whatever way you see fit So this could be a very honest truthful You know the picture of who you are or super curated where you just leave out everything except your work on whatever you want to do But I think it's very it's definitely helpful And I think you can see this a bit people like giving parry Where they have a massive falling in a massive amount of job opportunities because They have left the job They're now full-time either tiktok or instagram or twitter for all of them or linkedin. I think all of that can only be helpful That would be my my main answer and i'm seeing my camera Uh, it's going to cut off again. It's already 27 minutes. Okay. Um Yeah, so I think it's a great way to distribute ideas at the same time the moment you distribute something whatever it is be ready for feedback and unwanted feedback rude feedback That's just the downside of anything when you present something to someone else that you don't know They don't know they don't you they don't know how you present things They don't know the context of why you're posting this and sometimes you get a comment that you don't really care about Or that are just really wrong take on things or rude all kinds of stuff. So just be be ready for that There's always a pros and cons Yeah, and then just you have to weigh in your options. Is this something that is going to be helpful to you? Do you need this for a job hunting for promotion? to You know show a new product that you worked on Highlighting on the people is all that is in pros and cons I can say that the new job that i'm going to I got because of social media From what I hear i'm gonna dig deeper once I start is that someone saw my youtube channel They saw my acting analysis stuff. They liked that Checked on linkedin and I had my batch open to work and then contacted me and now I got a new job It's it's literally through youtube youtube and the linkedin and I got a job. So I'm definitely going to Say yes to social media as as being a great way to promote yourself that opens up opportunities But again, your your mileage may vary and depends what you need and where you're from and and you know your access to all that and It's very subjective and individual So is it worth it really depends on Your list of pros and cons and if there are too many cons, maybe it's not worth it to you for me. Yes Um, and I'm sure for other people know so it's it's unfortunately not something I can answer for you I can only tell you what how it has been for me. Okay Uh And then One more question, but I'm out. I'm gonna pause this All right, I'm paused it and hopefully that didn't trigger the whole cable thing I should probably redo my whole cabling system. Anyway, I hope this is not but Oh, it's not squeaking Rough for this. I got my second mic here and this is still recording an hour and seven minutes. I said Last question actually I like to know your opinion. How much do coronavirus damage the cg industry? I'm planning to move to other company, but I'm not sure if I can find new job In my country, Thailand things not change much, but I'm afraid that some companies may already have Financial damage. Sorry for bad English. Don't be. Sorry. It's not your second. It's just like a language So your first language so anybody speaking multiple languages. Don't apologize. It's already more than one and it's not easy. Um It's a good question and I I can't really answer that question First of all because I'm not in Thailand. I don't know I don't know what's affecting you there and how things are there I don't even know what's going on in switzerland or france I can kind of see it through news and stuff and it's even kind of hard to know what's going on in the states I think all I can say is the The change that we've all been going through since 2020 is that there has been a massive shift to working from home So like the damage could be in terms of Like live action shoots, but there's it's either delayed Uh canceled or they might start and then someone gets you know gets it and then they have to pause the shoe I think in terms of life action plus CG industry There is a Delaying a change in production schedules, and I'm sure with that comes always financial damage I mean that's kind of if you don't have your job lined up and it's being Delayed that you don't get paid. You can't pay your bills. You're always going to have damage like that When I take CG industry and I think it does animation I think If you look around the news and what's going on. I don't think there has ever been as much animation work Like that in the years. I mean it's netflix is pumping stuff out left and right like every day you see news about Either like netflix opened up something in la with the additional thing marvel's doing the mini studio for more animation What i'm seeing in the news there or uh like a movie or a tv show I think there's a some season of some tv show that is finishing but all animated instead of live action I think right now animation is really Flourishing because of the situation we're in So in terms of job opportunities, I think it's a great time and combined with remote working My dog is snoring I don't know if you can hear this but his little feetsies are are really cute Anyway, you can't see him but no but anyway, um, so I think again pros and cons. I'm sure For sure it has done some damage and at the same time is also good stuff that came out of it Like the remote working access to people the people the access that people have now because of this In terms of working for a company that they can't because of either disabilities or they can't go there in terms of moving there Like it has opened up so many opportunities. I think that's great And at the same time. Yeah, like there will be you know projects that have been delayed or cancelled and that always comes with financial damage um, but that's within The area that I'm in and what I'm seeing. I can't really say um What's going on in Thailand and other companies? So I don't know again. This is kind of a non answer um All I can say it has definitely changed things um Yeah So I can say I mean look at like the Mandalorian it definitely has helped Stagecraft and production with that and realizing. Oh, there's some really good work You can do with this that can be safer. You don't have to go on location I'm not saying it's better. I'm sure like real sunlight and wind and all that stuff you can fake But then sometimes you can really tell when it's real Uh, but you know, again, it gives access. I don't like to me. It's like lots of pros and cons Within that industry. I'm not talking in terms of general Problems that last year and this year have cost in people's lives again I'm talking very narrow-minded cg industry perspective here But that's kind of that. Um, yeah, I hope that was helpful and I'm moving forward. That's it 16 That's it for that. I'm going to do I think that's the last one on my channel more planes um There's going to be another part for sure because I have In the meantime the more comments on my q&a's So when I combine those new questions and then I have questions from I believe linkedin twitter and instagram That I haven't addressed yet. So this is a very long running series And then I'll probably you know do another one where I go questions And we'll do it all over again because I'm sure things have changed more questions new questions new people joining Uh, this will never end. I'm always happy to just you know ramble on Hopefully this wasn't too rambly and I will cut this whole thing together. Hopefully it won't be too Too messy. This tells me. Uh, yeah, it's definitely going to be an hour ish something like that So if you're actually listening to this till the very end, thank you so much If you're watching this you got nothing else to do. Thank you again for your patience Um, maybe you liked all those answers and you want to see more of what I do That's when I go in with the pitch um like and subscribe the usual youtube pitch Um, and that's kind of that. I don't know. It's kind of that. So I'll say thank you I'm going to stop rambling and leave you be and maybe I'll see you in my next upload And if not, thanks for joining once. Um, have a great life and uh, that's that. All right. Thanks


Thomas Jefferson said, a well-informed electorate is a prerequisite for democracy. The following program is part of the series, Influencers and Media Makers. A number of years ago, CCTV sat down with some of Vermont's most influential voices in media, news, and information access to understand their perspectives about the role of media in democracy and how their decisions shape the way we as Vermonters receive information. Much has changed since our first interviews. The people, the technology and social media, the political landscape, and so much more. Fast forward 20 or so years, and in collaboration with Leadership Champlain, we are revisiting the topic with a focus on what has changed, gaps and challenges across geographic, language, and socioeconomic boundaries. The conversations you will hear with today's gatekeepers provide important, varied, and insightful context to the media in Vermont today. Enjoy. Welcome again, Ali. Thank you so much, Ali Jang, and I want to make sure I'm pronouncing your last name correctly, because I've heard, I know my name gets mispronounced a lot, so I want to make sure I say your name properly, Raquel. So Ali Jang, thank you so much for joining us. As we've shared, we're doing a series of interviews with local media makers and influencers, especially on the topic of the role, the evolving role of media, and the necessity of an unfettered press for a healthy democracy. And as we explored this topic, we knew we wanted to get a diverse group of perspectives and representing as many different community members as we can in this conversation. So we've spoken with some TV personalities, and we will with additional radio, newspaper people, but we were thinking that we wanted to expand this conversation to include leaders from particular sub-communities, multicultural communities in our area. And so that's one of the reasons we asked you today. Now, you've had a variety of roles, leadership roles in our community. You've worked with lots of families in the school district, started parent university, you're a building bright futures, and of course are now an elected city counselor in Burlington. So you also came here as an immigrant from Mauritania. So in terms of vast experience and perspectives, it felt like you would have a lot of rich insight and experience to share with us. And I know you don't represent all immigrants or everyone in our multicultural communities, but we would love to hear especially your perspective as you represent them, as well as the broader community of Burlington. So that's sort of how we thought of including you on this conversation. Thank you for having me. Yeah, thanks for being here. So our first questions are about democracy and civic engagement in particular. And starting off with, when you think of our multicultural communities that we have here, how do you believe, how do they access the information that they need to know, whether it's about their local neighborhoods or whether it's about processes related to civic engagement such as voting? Do they have the information they need? Where do they access it? And what are the sources of information that are working well for them? Yep, thank you for having me. And I think that's a great question because civic engagement matters, and as newcomers we should feel that we belong and that we are part of the process. And where the new Americans are accessing information, most of the time it's in so many different ways in so many different areas. There are some who are, you know, educated, who understand the language, understand the system, they can access the information easily. And those same people also are able sometimes to, you know, provide the same information they acquire to others who are vulnerable, you know, in terms of the language. And, you know, there are also some families who definitely rely on their children only in order to understand when is voting, who should I be voting for and why should I be voting for this particular person, for example. But unfortunately there is not like an outlet where people go and understand what's going on in the civic life of the city and the state that has not been. And, but currently there are leaders of the new American communities who decided to come together and try to change that narrative a little bit. And those leaders are, you know, people in so many different sectors who understand the system, who are doing great work and they will now create an organization called the Vermont New American Advisory Council, which is, you know, working to increase engagement and provide opportunities for new Americans to have a sense of belonging. And it's a working progress and I feel like that's a good start. It's needed and we are trying to provide that service. Yeah. So that was an important preliminary conversation that we had with you and with Sandrine Dabouie of the, of the, of VNAC, the New American Advisory Council that was really helpful for us as well in understanding some of those broader issues. And you mentioned that many families are relying on their children. That is because the children are the ones who learn English most quickly, right? So you're speaking especially of those who come here without English and have to start really learning the language. Are there media sources? So it sounds like there's a very piecemeal approach out of necessity in terms of getting the information people need. And what are some of the sources of information? It sounds like VNAC is still forming and developing its ways of interacting and helping educate people about civic processes. But are there sources? Is it about community leaders? Are there certain media sources, are there additional? Is it social media? Is it WhatsApp? Is it multi-cultural liaisons in the schools? What are the sources that are that are key to getting information out? I mean, I think, you know, let's make the distinction about accessing to information and accessing information about civic being civically engaged. And when we talk about civic engagement is about, you know, from my perspective at least is about, you know, politics in society, etc. But there are also all the sources of information that exist. For example, you mentioned one of them like the homeschool liaisons, multi-cultural liaisons of the Wellington School District who are trained professionals who are definitely, you know, interpreters and cultural brokers who are able to take information about the education of their children and appropriate paperwork to families and vice versa. What the school need, what the families need and they are the bridge between those two. People also access information in their places of worship, for example like the mosques and where they go to, you know, so many places. We also have the Association African Living in Vermont. They have many professionals from different socioeconomic and cultural backgrounds who are able also to talk about, you know, the COVID-19 and who are able to talk about benefits and all of it, VRRP, all of it, you know. There are so many different ways. But also, you know, most of the time what I have noticed lately is community groups they are organized in WhatsApp groups. WhatsApp, which is an app where you can send, you know, audio messages, video messages or see people just like Skype. You know, it's very popular and very accessible. And people come together and definitely to, for example, Penn University, we use WhatsApp to definitely have conversation, talk about the classes and it's very interactive and easy to access. You don't need to sign up, you download the app and you end. And it's from the phone, right? From the phone. Any, you know, smartphone you can download that app. You know, and what I also noticed when we talk about also information, what's hard is information about what's happening, for example in the state or in the country. They're not accessing that information from the news outlets in the state. They are not. No. They're accessing it actually from their country of origin television. Yeah.  It's here in the United States. It's not WCAX, it's not Channel 17, it's not Channel 5, but it's their country of origin national television that provide information about what's happening in Ukraine, for example. Right. So in terms of world news they're accessing that through home. Do you feel like they're also getting news about what's happening here in the United States from their own news channels at home? Exactly. In that language. They can talk about Trump or whatever. Yes. I think why it's important maybe for them is this new outlets here is not providing one from their own language and also two hearing it in English they will not be able to comment. But in their own language a conversation can start. People around a cup of tea they can talk about the TV, what is happening in the U.S. but the news is not coming from here. Right. That's just an observation that I have noticed. Right. And that might work for sort of national level news but probably not so much with news about Vermont. Exactly. Even though we're very important we're probably not getting reported on on the Somali news stations is what I imagine. Okay. So it sounds like non-traditional sources like WhatsApp in terms of information sharing. What about civic? What about things like voting? Are there ways that are working or not working? We're being hosted here by CCTV and that's part of the mission here is to provide access to information and democracy supporting processes. So I think there's also a curiosity about what are things that could be happening to better support. You mentioned now a community television that has like a mission that is unique and from my perspective I don't even consider them as like this big news outlet. This is for me and anyone feels like this is my home. It's not only about even accessing information but also producing your own information. Sometimes you go to CCTV you see Somalis together just talking in Somali. It's for them. That's why it's beautiful this organization. But also I believe that this organization also does an amazing job by basically identifying youth training them, giving them the tools in order to go to the community and create their own television, their own programming. Sometimes in different languages that's amazing. But you know unfortunately I feel like seven days did start something amazing. New American birds where new Americans have like a column and there was a reporter named Camelia Sarri used to be here and just talking just about the new commons their lives they live here but that no longer exists and it's unfortunate that the other media outlets are not providing that level of civic engagement here. But when we talk about civic engagement I think VNAC also does an amazing job and our members worked very hard in making sure that the ballots are now translated in different languages. At least it's a sample in all voting booths for example. Where you go there is a sample in different languages. You can reflect and vote. And yeah so basically I feel like it's an ongoing process and people are identifying the issue and it's a fact, a matter of fact that you guys are having this type of project to talk about media and also inclusion in the media. I think this is something that we all can produce something and learn from it and see where there opportunities to fill the gap. Yeah and what you said made me think of a conversation that we actually had here or maybe it was a conversation with Sundreen and with you. I'm trying to remember where it happened but where we were talking about democracy and civic engagement and skill building really and understanding like where do you get that sort of learning about what it means to be civically engaged especially if you come from a place where maybe that was less available or where the processes were different. What does it mean to come here and how do I learn even though people who are born and raised here sometimes are not so civically engaged so it's not just a question of coming from another country but just how do we develop the skills in all of our community members and what does it take to help people feel like informed. I love how you said this place is sort of like home. It's our place too. We can come here and make our own news in our own languages. So yeah thank you you've been joined by Kelly here. No sneaking in. So another one of the topics that we've been speaking to in our speaking about in our interviews has been the topic of news deserts which I'll read our definition we've been sharing here. We define it as a community either rural or urban with limited access to the sort of credible and comprehensive news and information that feeds democracy at the grassroots level. What are your thoughts and again you don't have to speak only to the multicultural communities of course you have that unique perspective of the people that we're speaking with but what are your thoughts on what constitutes a news desert and do you think they exist in Vermont? Yeah so yes I don't I personally I don't think basically it exists and it does not exist. It depends. It exists in a fact that basically what news are being told what is important enough for these let's say corporate or privately owned news outlets to decide this is a message we want to share out right so basically in that sense it exists basically because they have the power to decide what to let out what to not let out and also you talk about let's say the printing right they also have the power who to coat who to include in the in the article and who to not for example and sometimes you can compare two different articles about the same subject but still you will not see that it aligns perfectly each one of them have their own bias have their own basically way of doing things and they have to stick to it and even the reporter sometimes is not the one who make that decision so in any way if you hold the media you have power basically in that sense it exists there are some news being told and some that are not being told because it's not important to them but at the same time it does not exist in Vermont because in Vermont here we have so many different news outlets that are very different that are very diverse and they all provide abundant amount of media of news but also what type of news they decide to share out I think is we have to put it in a balance but from my perspective it exists and it doesn't exist okay I think that's interesting that you talk about power you know because I think we're thinking of news desert as in is there a place or is there a group you know are there holes in where news media where there's access to media and information whether it's a geographic place or a group of people are there people who aren't able to get what they need in terms of information but you sort of turned that around to power and are we inadvertently creating deserts which it sounds like you don't think we do so much in Vermont which is good to hear in terms of just our decision making about what is news or the angle that we use to tell that news the bias that we may not even realize we have as we tell the stories exactly and what you said made me think also of one thing currently the Muslim community around the world and here they're celebrating the month of Ramadan right you haven't read about it in any media you haven't watched a clip about Ramadan is happening in the state our children are going to these schools the teachers need to know the community need to know in order to build a community we are not the white Vermont that was here couple you know centuries ago it's changing and we have to embrace a change and the media has a role to play we have a mosque the Imam has not been interviewed what is this what does it mean the coworkers that you work with what are the perspective what should you do for someone who's celebrating Ramadan what should we avoid you know that education the media have the power to use and educate but here it's right here it doesn't exist so there is desert in that sense again in terms of what gets covered and so we could take this moment to say that Ramadan Mubarak is one of the one of the greetings that we would give at a time like this right let's take our little tiny moment for educating but yeah I had to learn that myself before I met with you I was like okay what do I need to say again and we don't we don't offer you food right now and so are these things no but I think it is important right like because we have so many neighbors who are observing Ramadan so thank you for bringing that up and thank you for joining us during a month that is the most important time of year right for people who celebrate it so let's see impact of social media what is the impact of social media on news access issues in particular with maybe our multi-cultural communities but just from your perspective if it has an impact you know so if it does then what is it you know I think here in the United States and compared to where I'm from you know social media is starting to become something right but there the community you can access the news anywhere all the time in buses you know circles outside because access society is just people are outside people know each other right but here it's a little bit different people are more isolated in their own home their own job their own small communities so there is not that level of interaction human interaction right but here social media plays an integral role of this society almost when you when you fighting a war it's not the words through social media that's where you reach the people that's where they connect that's where you send the message and that's where people react it can be dangerous sometimes you know and very not healthy at all to be in it Facebook let's say Twitter and as an elected official I know it's sometimes it's just it's just too much because of comments and people who comment you don't even know who they are but they can exactly strong opinions and feel more free to share those opinions because they have that sort of yes and no nobody's you know holding them accountable you know sometimes but social media for example from the perspective of new Americans I don't think you know through WhatsApp yes people interact they talk about it but also you can become a target as well it can be very dangerous you can become a target the social media also can be very you know because you can access all type of personally I can access all types of information that I look into Facebook or Twitter quickly you know and I think if it was in Africa I wouldn't have that opportunity but here at the same time there is just you need to find the balance find the limits you know when it's not healthy you get out when it's healthy interactive you grow it's good yeah okay alright when we so sort of moving to more your personal experience as a leader in the community from what you see what makes an influencer when you think of yourself or other leaders whether whether on the city council or within the multicultural communities what makes an influencer or leader in those communities and how do people become trusted leaders yep I think you know I think before anything you have you have to earn the trust first in order to influence people there is something that you're doing well and you're doing uniquely and you're doing you know you build relationship basically with people you know who you are and I think with that you have to be authentic have to be yourself who you are there is no too much basically makeup for example you're not putting on a show yes exactly you be you be you you be authentic and you know and I think also having the love of helping people and if you help someone and I think that someone also will go to you somewhere else you know and then over time you are accumulating some credit basically trust from the people that you serve and in one point if you want to sell this let's say a cup of coffee for example it doesn't matter what's in it people are not buying it because what's in it they're buying it because you're selling it you know what I mean so I think that relationship building is so important self and people you know will definitely rely on you on air formation that are credible they'll say oh if he says that it's right because you you worked with them and you worked with so many people and you know I think becoming a leader it's sometimes all about some people are it's just natural to them it's not something that they don't need similar seminaries they don't it's just they're just natural leaders right and you know I think whatever it is there should be a power or a love of service it's not you're not serving your own self and at the end of the day it will also show you're serving people authentically by being yourself and I think you will become an influencer and a leader who's trusted with anything that you say mm-hmm I love that I like that perspective you a love of service and being authentic seems like great advice for a leadership seminar right there um you're a natural um as a public figure and leader in the community and among you know these various multicultural communities because I think you I imagine are seen as a leader not only you're from Mauritania originally but but just as somebody who has also had the experience of coming here as an immigrant um and then becoming a leader an elected leader in our community I imagine first of all that you're seen as a role model including to other new Americans right whether or not they come from even the same continent um but just as somebody who has had a similar kind of experience um how do you reach people so in your work as a city counselor or a building bright futures how do you reach people when you need to share important information what what techniques do you use like I you know I rely on social media sometimes and just putting it out there you don't know who's picking it up and who's going to respond or something you know twitter facebook whatever it is have pages where I put information and pages where I just put a question and people react basically and I'll I'll I'll have an understanding about where people are at right um but most of the time also it's more about you know the people that I know in the community too who are leaders like me yeah and I know Raquel if I send you an information I know you have the ability to send it to 200 other people right through your work the network that you are involved in I think perfectly look like that you know I go to jitan for example in the Nepali community same thing you know I have my people my my network of leaders also that I leave information in order for them to decimate that information so there is social media there is also the community members that are leaders who are influencers and who are who have the love of service as well those two so it sounds like um and I think that's another nice thing about Vermont actually as you say like we have our networks and it's a very small community we in our program like we get to hear from commissioners of various departments you know it's such a small state and so we do know each other across the community um and so even if I don't have the connections I know who to ask like oh I'm going to ask Ali and who else should I be talking to about this particular issue he'll be able to give me some great names and great sources and um thinking of the term code switching so I thought this would be an interesting just as you know from anybody who is bilingual multi-lingual multi-cultural um and so defining it um as the process of shifting from one linguistic code whether a language or a dialect to another depending on the social context or the confirmation the conversational setting so if we think of that as code switching um when we're multi-lingual by cultural we often resort resort to cultural switching as well right like there are things that I would do with certain groups of people that I might not do with others do you find a need for code switching as you share or try to get across information for the communities you serve both in either direction whether it's for the larger community or whether it's more specifically for the multi-cultural communities do you find that you have to navigate certain and are you able to say something about that or share with us absolutely yes yes I mean I feel like you know it exists not only from the linguistic perspective but also from just day-to-day operation day-to-day life you know there are in places where I go people that I am with you know we speak freely about anything yeah but sometimes I have to you know filter what I have to say yeah we have all of that and I think sometimes also is about because you have to make things funny in order for this yes make it funny make it interesting about because the person the reading you have about the person in front of you you know this is not you should not make this too serious make it funny make it easy right and sometimes people also bring you like a problem you know this is big but you don't want to add a level of stress to them right but you have to at least you know make it in a way that you know there is no issue that we can solve it might take some time and you switch you code switch about and to make that person feel better right there is also sometimes even in there are things that I want to talk about but I have to code switch use different language in order for all the people in the room do not have to say because you and I understand French and the others don't is all of mechanism that you have to use but it all depends on the setting it all depends on you know the situation for example but code switching those that I like the most is in your dreams like your sub-conscience for example when you are let's say you speak different languages right from my perspective you are not a good speaker of any language until you are able to dream about that to dream in French to dream in English dream in Germany then I can say I can speak German there is all of that I can explain to you in DC when I worked in a restaurant my first job in the US you know it was break time I sat down and then there were two French people you know I think they came to visit and they were talking about me I've had this experience too not knowing that I speak French not knowing that you spoke French no and to them they are like ok is he African-American or is he African and the woman was like oh look at his nose this guy this guy is natural here and then in one point you know they asked me where is the White House and I just wanted them to be in French so anyway what was their reaction no they were like no problem just go they were like you know there I could switch and just to make them feel better it's ok I have the humor to the situation I have the exact same situation because I'm a Spanish speaker I think again because of the biases or just not knowing I'm very fair so the fact that I would speak Spanish was kind of a shock to them I don't hear that it's kind of fun it can be fun and I think when I think of code switching too sometimes there's a sense of formality in some cultures I think of Vermont as a very informal place you know so I don't know the ways we dress the ways we communicate like you said certain language that we might use and that's true of everybody whether you're bicultural or not ok interesting the dreaming thing because I sometimes feel like I don't dream in a particular language like I'm not conscious of what language I'm even dreaming in pay attention pay attention you might be dreaming in different languages yeah it's almost like anyway that's another I feel like we can go off on a lot of tangents ok let's see perspective on partisanship and bias in media so it's hard not to talk about media nowadays and think about this and just the whole topic of partisanship as we talk about democracy and civic engagement some of our questions for media makers have been around these topics especially in the national media to what degree do these issues show up if they do in the information sources that reach people with a little less English or who come from different cultural backgrounds does the partisanship that we are conscious of sort of as people born and raised here and being English consumers of English language media does that come across or is that as present for people in the new American multicultural communities is it an awareness is it kind of a curiosity is it a problem how is it perceived if it is yeah that's an interesting question I don't know that much about it but I'm going to tell you I think I talked about it earlier about these media they have their own mission and also basically vision about what type of media they want to share out etc you know the printing sometimes they choose what to coat what to not coat about the person they interviewed personally I always have some time issues with reporters because we can talk about this and then what you when I read your article I'll call you to just say hey or you took me out of context or what are the important elements that I'm like I ask you to why you did not coat me on those for example but they all have their own stories to tell you know and sometimes this is just a matter of you understanding what to tell what to say yeah yeah and that's interesting because what they perceive as like oh this was so interesting what Ali said I'm going to quote this part and you might be like well that wasn't I don't think that was the important thing I thought this other thing was way more important but you didn't you know and so when is it biased or when is it just like oh that was really interesting or maybe that's something I don't want to bring attention to right like it can be both of those um uh somebody that we were just talking to was talking about the difference oh I know we were watching a previous interview that we did for this series and he just talked about the difference between um what's news and what's opinion you know and I think when we think of partisanship like that feels like something to many of us that has become such a part of people saying well that's not news or that should be news but actually it's not it's just opinion you know and I but it sounds like that's not something as present or as occupying of your thoughts on media and democracy necessarily as it is I mean yes sometimes basically because VT Digger for example has this you know section about commentaries anyone can write a commentary anyone right and at the same time they also have professional who can do investigative reporting they investigate they do research and then they report about something but those commentaries most of the time people perceive them as like it's investigative just because VT Digger printed it out I mean put it on their website which is completely not the right I can have an opinion about anything you know and sometimes you know especially about the issue about the police there were so many people who attacked me about in their own opinion but many people I tried to convey the message hey these are their opinions look at my voting record and do not judge me because of what perception of another person but I think in any other case people like us or anybody right who is new here you have to learn to make your own media your own news it's not because you can tell your story better than anyone anyone has their own stories to tell and I think learning to write learning to convey a message is always key because it's your opinion it's you you produce it and I think people can react trust it accept it or not yeah and do you feel so you touched on this a little bit earlier you were saying that seven days used to have a reporter that used to cover issues of particular relevance to our immigrant and from refugee communities are there things I don't know why that went away I don't know if you know but are there things like that that you think could make a difference whether it's CCTV or WCAX or Vermont Digger what are is that a particular action that media sources could be taking to better tell stories or more fully tell them or to increase access what other steps could the media community be taking yeah that report of seven days I think her name was Camelia Sarri I believe she was from Sri Lanka I believe you know she left she went back to her country of origin I don't know the reasons right but I think they could have found somebody else who could just have the new American births immigrant births in here because when you think about it 57% of the population growth in Chittenden County is composed of people from new American immigrant community right so I mean basically you think about the amount of houses that we buy here the cars we make the economy grow we're part of this society but all the media also need to play their role in making those people understand that the sense of belonging we all have to play an integral role you are here you have stories and we are news-outlet and your stories need to be shared out I mean I feel like for example what I was telling you about Ramadan is here nobody from me my story doesn't have any importance in this society right the sense of belonging we need to plant that seed not even for us but also for the future generations right and people feel free their cultures matter who they are matter their sexual orientation or whatever they are I think we need to be intentional all of this media news media need to be intentional in recognizing you know that the other yeah great let's see are there is there any before the last question is there anything else that you think is important for us to know regarding media, democracy or information access that we haven't already covered anything I haven't asked you about or that you think is a part of this topic and conversation I mean yes and I think also sometimes do not also absorb any media that's out there it can be from anybody do not absorb it all to just say this is true they have a story to tell to share right but you know I think it would be important those who are in the middle of a story also to hear from their perspective directly and not from the media and accept and trust that this person is like this or is not like this I think that's an important element to that people need to think about I know you're talking about the people that are creating the stories or like the media makers are you talking also about those of us who are consuming media and information to have some critical thinking about what we're absorbing exactly it's always important and you know sometimes if you pay attention to read an article there are a lot of corrections sometimes they come back and say oh the previous version had this but this version because they got called to correct this it was wrong I think do not consume everything and have a critical thinking especially in this day and age where things are shared so quickly or out of context and finally unless you know my colleagues may have other questions but is there anything that is giving you a sense of hope or optimism about what you're seeing related to civic engagement, media, information sharing other things giving you what do you think like highlights or things that are working well and there might not be you can say nope not right now that's okay I hope it's not the answer I mean I feel like I'm hopeful the more that I understand channel 17 CCTV channel 17 the more hopeful that I am that basically it's that power is not only at the discretion of just few people because this is a community oriented people can come here and produce and you know tell their story produce their own media I think I'm also hopeful that you as leaders your group decided to have this topic which is an important topic we always consume consume consume but you taking a step back to think about this who are we missing is this really I think you just having that aspect as well is very hopeful because each one of you are in different part of the system and I think like whatever you learn from here will serve you in what you do you know consensus about what you all that you have heard and try to have that lens as you move forward I think all of those are hope because you care people care yeah I hope that like you not only will it serve us in what we do but also in our ability to serve others like you said you know having a love of service that that will serve others as well if you like this and want to see more watch the rest of the series thank you for watching and please vote