The next topic of interest for us is what is called as the hydrogen damage. This is a very interesting and important subject somewhat similar to stress corrosion cracking, but the mechanism of cracking is different. I have used the term broadly as hydrogen damage as given by the Fontana book. In all these cases the main species for responsible for premature failure is hydrogen, but the way the hydrogen causes the failure is different. And so, we we we we called broadly as the hydrogen damage. Under this we could have hydrogen blistering or also called as safe wise cracking. The other one is hydrogen embrittlement. Some people loosely termitize hydrogen induced cracking called decarburization. The fourth is hydrogen attack. I would like to say that 1 and 2 are ambient temperatures, processes and 3 and 4 are high temperature failures. You say look at that again briefly not going much into details. Let us now discuss the topic of hydrogen blistering. The typical failure you know happened in one of the refineries and located in Mumbai. You can see how the sample bulged we call a blistering. Primarily because the hydrogen accumulated somewhere here ok and created the pressure and so it happened. If you look at microscopic level you see that these these are all stepwise zigzag kind of cracks. If you look at even more at a microscopic level they are micro cracks and this is actually a cross section of a pressure vessel ok. So, we will discuss this in detail why does it really happen and how do you prevent the hydrogen blistering of steels. Hydrogen blistering generally occurs in low strength steel. Let us look at the mechanism how the hydrogen can cause problem. We all of us know that you know hydrogen is the tiniest element in the periodic table ok. There is I do not think there is any other element which is smaller than that and hydrogen in the atomic form can diffuse through the metals and steel for sure you can diffuse through that. You can diffuse through the interstitials and so it can cause two types of problems. The one type of problem is hydrogen blistering. Let us take a cross section of steel here steel plate ok or a vessel it is exposed to say an acid make it simple exposed to an acid and this is steel. The steel has got a small defect and this defect is where the metal corrodes what is the reaction you get? You have iron going as Fe 2 plus plus 2 electrons H plus can combine with the electron to form atomic hydrogen that is all we know. These things happen on the surface and hydrogen ions move towards the surface and accept the electron and form hydrogen atoms. All these are all absorbed hydrogen. Please note here that these are all atomic hydrogen they absorb on the surface. The following things are possible 1 H plus no no no H the hydrogen atom can combine with the other hydrogen atom and it can form a hydrogen molecule and it can escape from the surface. That is they can simply combine and go out escape as hydrogen. The second chance is that the hydrogen diffuses through the metal. For example, it can diffuse come out as hydrogen here and diffuse come out as hydrogen here. Here they can combine and the hydrogen gas can get liberated. It can happen in many of the cases. In fact, in some pipeline corrosion monitoring they monitor the amount of hydrogen that is escaping the pipeline that related to the corrosion rate. You know is not it? Each ion that is getting oxidized in an atom you have one gas molecule is getting released right. You have two electrons and two electrons in the combine with H plus and form one gases hydrogen molecule. So, by monitoring the amount of hydrogen you can monitor the corrosion rate. In fact, people do that. So, you have this option taking place. The other option is through metal and escape. Third option is hydrogen diffuses and get trapped at the internal defects and become hydrogen molecule right. So, you will have quite a bit of in these places you can have hydrogen molecules. It can build up pressure in in the case of 3 hydrogen builds pressure advances the crack. So, what is the role of hydrogen? The hydrogen role of hydrogen is just to exert pressure. The existing defects they grow that is what they do that. In which case the fracture here is a really a ductile fracture you are not going to get any brittle fractures. The hydrogen does not interact in with the lattice at all. Now, the fracture here is ductile. The strength of the steel also less only steel quality also unclean steel. So, in addition to the pores and cracks you can also have other other trap sites especially you can have manganese sulphide stringers and especially you have it in kiln steels when rolled. When you roll it the manganese sulphides they elongate the stretch ok and if you see this in the micro in the microscope you will see they are all in the plane. These are all the planes and sulphide inclusions. Now, what happens in this case? The hydrogen get accumulated here hydrogen accumulate cause micro cracks right. So, what happens then? Micro cracks choirs they choirs and form not the cracks. So, for example, you know this this can grow this can grow this can grow and then they join and the form stepwise cracking finally, leading to blister. Please see that these cracks generally grow parallel to the surface. They grow parallel to the surface why all these stringers are aligned in a plane and that plane is parallel to the surface of maybe a pipeline or maybe a pressure vessel. So, it is a material problem first of all it is a material problem. The material has is not clean in the sense it has got pores and micro cracks. The steel has got inclusions and they especially the the manganese sulphide stringers are there actually. Now, what are the factors that affect this more poisoning of the interface? What does it mean by poisoning? Here in the sense when say poisoning here it means hydrogen is less allowed to combine and escape as molecules. If the surface for example, if surface of the steel has sulphur, arsenic, antimony and phosphorus all these are poisoning agents these are poisoning agents right. So, they so they they hold the hydrogen on the surface for quite some time. They do not allow that means the actually they retard recombination reaction.  When this is retarded what happens they have enough time for the hydrogen to get into the steel. And in the steel the manganese sulphide inclusions there are two problems here. They are good trap is not it? They are good trap sites because the sulphur they trap the two. The manganese sulphide is is is a long stringer what happens to the steel is toughness is transfers ductility is less. So, so that is the kind of problem that we have. So, it is a problem of surface. Now these elements like arsenic, antimony, sulphur all can come from the environment right. Now if you are going to have crude if it is a crude oil pipeline crude oil pipelines may may have and you know in this crude may have hydrogen sulphide gas this is called as a sour gas. So, crude may have some no so sour gases right and this hydrogen sulphide acts as a poison and so they are problems. They are problems in the oil and gas industries that transport crude oil and crude oil in many cases it has a hydrogen sulphide gas and so cause the problems. And sometimes these cracks can be it can be few foot length it can happen not small it can have a very long cracks. So, we have seen this mechanism how do you control this? Yes. Yes. First of all lower H2S or or poisoning elements in the the environment this may not be possible always right depends upon the crude we are going to get you can reduce of course they also use diesel prices and all they do that, but that is not going to be you know easy in all cases go for a clean steel you can also go for inhibitors. Please notice it is no corrosion no hydrogen. So, no hydrogen no blistering you can control the corrosion. And 4 when talk about coatings coatings eliminate the corrosion and so hydrogen blistering becomes very less hydrogen embrittlement occurs in high strength steels high strength steels and the fracture is brittle there are quite a few mechanisms here in this. There are quite a few mechanisms and I just name it and then move on I am because this this is very involved subject. One is decohesion and there is hell called as hydrogen enhanced localized plasticity. There are also some model which talks about it lowers the surface energy.  This energy required to create a new surface and hydrogen gets absorbed then what happens then the energy required to create a new surface reduces the simple mechanical model. In the decohesion you know the decohesion comes with the it lowers the bond strength it lowers the bond strength and so what happens you can cleave right the energy required to cleave the atoms they become less. So, that is called as hydrogen induced decohesion model they call H C D E you call it ok this also called as H E D E hydrogen enhanced decohesion model and help means what happens it lowers it it assists the assist the dislocation motion. The dislocation can move even at a stress level lower than the yield strength. Assume that the dislocation moves below the yield strength there will be no ductility to localize plasticity right and so it becomes brittle. So, anyway I have given you a broad I mean contours about the the mechanisms of this. There is one more mechanism is also talks about hydride formation these things are happening in the case of titanium, zirconium, even magnesium and you know some of these materials they form hydrides and hydrides are when they are brittle I need you know it refracts us to lose the ductility of this. There is also anyway there is also one more model called as aid adsorption induced dislocation emission actually ok model. So, there are a lot of things you know the aid mechanism is basically of course, that way even aid help and and H C D E are all crystallographic models actually right all involving the dislocations and as well as the cohesion in the lattice. It will be nice to compare stress corrosion cracking versus the hydrogen embrittlement. Stress corrosion cracking again I am very simplifying it I am simplifying it. Stress corrosion cracking is anodic dissolution involved in hydrogen embrittlement what is involved hydrogen evolves there may be metal dissolution there may not be hydrogen dissolution there may not be metal dissolution right. So, either there can be metal dissolution most cases it can happen because hydrogen evolution how it can come unless metal dissolves it gives electrons H plus cannot reduce to hydrogen but it is not necessarily it can happen. I can do a cathodic protection and hydrogen evolution can occur ok. So, this is anodic dissolution here there is a hydrogen evolution process occurring. So, if you look at the fontana book and just give a nice distinction between these two. So, potential and this axis is time to fail how long it takes the time to fail. If I apply a negative potential in relation to the ecard if the time to failure decreases like this is the time to failure right or every time the time to failure. So, it is the fail here this is no fail and I can also have a similar thing here fail that is no fail. Can you now guess or just analyze what you call such failure and what you call this type of failure what would happen suppose if it fails faster right this is this is a time axis right when I increase the potential positive the time to failure decreases it will be faster. So, what do you call this failure? If I can classify as SCC in hydrogen embrittlement what do you call this yeah choose between these two. So, this is your hydrogen embrittlement failure and this is going to be SCC. So, one way to differentiate is whether the metal undergoes hydrogen embrittlement or SCC is to apply a potential for apply a positive potential if the metal does not fail then you say that it is what it is prone to hydrogen embrittlement may be prone to hydrogen embrittlement. If you apply a a negative potential if it does not fail and it fails in the positive side then you can say that it is it is susceptible to SCC why when you do a cathodic polarization what is happening to metal what is happening here here what happens now over here metal dissolution decreases right metal dissolution decreases metal dissolution increases you can able to understand why things really are happening at all. There is one more way of uh distinguishing these two I thought I will just discuss that too I have not discussed to use this strain rate all the stuffs ok and in ductility strain rate is um let us say it is 10 power say minus 8 I just give something 10 power minus 1 something like that ok. Here I carry out a simple tensile test right the specimen is immersed in the environment of interest when I carry out a tensile stress tensile test I pull the sample at a given strain rate what is the strain rate how do you define a strain rate what is strain delta L upon L right and strain rate means again is going to be your time ok dt. So, it is going to be your strain rate this is going to be your strain rate what rate at which you are going to pull in relation to the of course, it also involves the gauge length right L is the gauge length and delta L is the elongation extension and of course, dt is the time ok. The metal can behave like this two types of behavior the metal can exhibit the first one how does it behave the ductility is very high at high strain rate also high at low strain rate. The other one the ductility gradually decreases and then almost becomes steady state downward it does not take off again ok. How do you explain this? If you want I can say that the case one one corresponds to stress corrosion cracking the two corresponds to hydrogen embrittlement. Now, let us discuss why I would assign the one the curve one to SCC whereas, the second curve I assigned it to hydrogen embrittlement. Well, let us just look at SCC what is SCC we discussed earlier at least in the slip assisted dissolution model right what do we discuss there ok. One I can have it is not a well drawn it is smooth curve suppose I draw it like this ok. Now, you tell me the order of susceptibility of material one, material two, material three I get it like this ok and this is scratch or when slip step forms the current increases and then decreases say amount. You tell me what will be the order of increasing susceptibility to stress corrosion cracking. What will be the order of increasing susceptibility to stress corrosion cracking? We are talking about a model which is slip assisted active dissolution model for stress corrosion cracking use that model I have tell me which one you would expect to be the highest susceptible and the lowest susceptible. Sir, the 3 will be the lowest then 4 by 19 2. 3 will be the lowest least that is right then 1 then become 2 right you are right why why you saying like this. So, the time for repassivation.  So, time for repassivation becomes. So, that is a key issue. Now, there are two things are happening one you are deforming the film is broken other is the repassivation right. Now, let us look at this curve now if you pull the sample so fast the time for the dissolution is very less because I when I pull very fast how long it takes to to practice the sample it takes less time to practice samples.  The time the sample resides in the environment during the completion of the test is very low here because the time taken to fracture is very less because of the high strain rate. So, I do not expose the environment for long time. So, it becomes totally ductile I understand this. So, when you are allowing more time for exposure as the strain rate is lowering never happens becomes a maximum here this also you can understand here. Why does it go back? It goes back because before the mechanical you know before the mechanical you know stress breaks the film the film is again reforming. So, you do not have. So, it there are two process opposing processes one is the film breakdown other is a repassivation. The film breakdown occurs because of the mechanical strain right. So, if the strain is so low ok the film is not really broken that much it is it is able to repassivate compared to the film breakdown. So, in this case it is easy to heal it is easy to heal the film and so the time so the ductility becomes more and so you get more elongation here. In this case of course, you have a bare metal the time taken for exposure is so low so low here is optimum. So, you are going to get the highest excessive susceptibility in this case taking place. So, that is why it goes to a bell curve and have the lowest ductility over here in SCC. Hydrogen embattlement is a different story together right. How does the hydrogen embattlement work? The hydrogen embattlement works SCC for hydrogen embattlement it works differently right. Assume that I have tensile sample and I apply a load here tensile load the crack starts advancing now. We have given different models in a decoction model or localize the plasticity model aid model what are model it is going to be there. In all the models I need hydrogen to act. If a hydrogen is not there then it is not going to act that means, I need hydrogen at the crack tip ok. So, the hydrogen now what happens start diffusing to the crack diffuses to the crack tip here ok. The hydrogen diffuses to the crack tip. So, hydrogen needs to diffuse and reach. So, the diffusivity of hydrogen is very important diffusion coefficient is very important. Now, whatever be the diffusion coefficient ok the two factors that would advance the crack one is the rising strain strain rate the crack advances when you apply a strain rate. Other one is the diffusion of hydrogen right. If hydrogen can reach faster than the crack advancement right by mechanical straining then what I what it can do it can it can now it can assist the crack growth right. So, when the crack front I have hydrogen it assists so, but it is not there it is going to mechanical failure. So, it depends upon the diffusion rate now look at this if I am going to now load the strain rate the concentration of hydrogen at the crack tip would be increasing if I load the strain rate right. Isn't it? If I if I pull it very slowly what happens the diffusion rate is same almost you do not worry about the strain induced diffusion and all forget about that. Assuming the diffusion coefficient is constant and if I if I strain it very slow like this then there will be ample hydrogen on the crack tip and so, the cracking occurs right. So, now look at this now look at this plot go back to this plot here as I load the strain rate you expect more and more hydrogen to crack reach the crack tip and so, the effect becomes more. It becomes steady state because after that it saturates it does not really go beyond that level. So, it becomes saturated. So, the hydrogen embrittlement tendency increases when you lower the strain rate and lowers only one way whereas, SCC the SCC you know this distress coefficient cracking goes through a bell shaped curve and you have an optimum value of strain rate that gives you the maximum SCC and this optimum value will depend upon the alloy you know it may not be the same for all the alloys it could be different for stainless steels for and it could be different for aluminum alloys and magnesium alloys and so on so forth. So, you have seen the hydrogen embrittlement behavior of the metal and what causes the embrittlement. You can say one thing that if the strength of the strength of an alloy increases the strength of alloy increases the hydrogen embrittlement tendency also increases which means if I take a steel of let us say 1000 mega Pascal the critical amount of hydrogen required to form a crack if it is going to some x value if I increase the strength level to 24 100 mega Pascal for example, ultra high strength steels then it could be much less than that it can be even one PPM level of that for a mild steel you can even have 20 PPM or 100 PPM nothing happens. So, as the strength level increases for a steel the tendency of the steel towards hydrogen susceptibility increases more and more ok. And you have fraction mechanics concept we will not enter into why does it really happen is enough to say that the tolerance become less and the strength of the metal it increases it can happen in aluminum alloys it can happen in steels it can happen in other metals as well. So, this is one thing that we should be aware of that. So, the hydrogen embrittlement I would say can be a function of strength and the concentration of hydrogen. Of course, one more called as applied stress please notice if you do not have you do not apply a stress no cracking occurs here. In the previous case and the hydrogen bliss spring the cracking occurred without any external stress here you need to have an external stress. So, you need to notice the difference right. So, external stress is required for hydrogen embrittlement to occur bliss spring not required similarly here you get a brittle fracture whereas, in the in the in the case of hydrogen bliss spring it was a ductile fracture this happens in high strength steel whereas, there it happens in the low strength steels and unclean steels. So, please see the difference between ok you want to call it as a brittle fracture this is your hydrogen embrittlement hydrogen bliss spring it is it is a ductile fracture to applied stress needed no applied stress needed. Generally in high strength steel happens in the low strength steels and both of them of course are ambient temperature fracture process. What creates hydrogen in the system you know there are what are the sources of hydrogen the hydrogen source it could be you know corrosion simply a corrosion process can lead to hydrogen to electrode deposition could be cathodic protection it could be may be during welding ok welding case what happens you have using a in humid conditions right humid conditions it can be in the steel making process several places the hydrogen can be a source. Fortunately hydrogen embrittlement is a reversible process. So, if you can degas hydrogen then that treaty can be recovered. So, people have studied you know some work on this time to failure versus the applied load on this and they have done it on a steel which is which was coated by an electrode deposition process you know when you do electrode deposition process you make the metal into a cathode and hydrogen evolves and part of hydrogen gets into the material right. So, you find that the behavior goes something like this this is asplated it is baked let us say baked you know T 1, T 2, T 3 and T 4 right what are the T 1 they are all baking time T 1, T 2, T 3, T 4 the baking time normally if it is a steel that you can have in the range of 180 degree Celsius to 250 degree Celsius if you do it and most of the hydrogen can get a escape. Some hydrogen can still remain as a trapped hydrogen that may not of course, significantly affect the hydrogen embrittlement. Please notice the hydrogen embrittlement occurs only if the hydrogen is diffusable because hydrogen does not diffuse then embrittlement does not occur why it has to go to the crack front control. How do you control this? First of all reduce the hydrogen level in the material right to what you can do reduce residual stresses same thing what do you do for HCC right of course, reduce the applied stress you can give coating all this and reduce corrosion and reduce corrosion hydrogen and take reduces reduce stress concentration there are several factors you can also look at reduce stress concentrations in the structures wherever you have. But very interestingly if you if you take if you take a ferritic steel an austenitic steel it could be steel or stainless steel it is resistant to hydrogen embrittlement prone to hydrogen embrittlement what is the reason anybody because the diffusion coefficient for hydrogen they are all changing quite significantly right it can be 10 power minus 6 centimeter per second it is a plain carbon steel and it is 10 power minus 12 centimeter actually you know diffusion coefficient comes as a square right per second right. So, you can see about 10 power 6 times you know the diffusion coefficient is less for austenitic stainless steel. So, austenites are generally more resistance to stress corrosion crack sorry more resistance to hydrogen embrittlement than ferritic stainless steels the contrary true ferritic stainless steels are more resistance to SCC and austenitic stainless steels are more prone to SCC. So, you need to understand the the the basic reasons why these materials behave in that way. So, continuing our discussion on hydrogen damage the third type of hydrogen damage is decarburization you know the steel take steel the major strength comes from where it is coming from the carbon right from carbon. Now, if you are talk about a steel at ambient temperature the solubility of carbon in the ferrite is very low right. So, the solubility of carbon is very low. So, what form the carbon present in a steel typically that leads to strength. If you take a microstructure of a carbon steel what kind of microstructure do you see you will see ferrite and what else you see you will see a polyite right the polyite consist of ferrite plus the cementite. Now,this combination gives the highest strength the cementite in fact, gives the highest strength to steel. Now, supposeso, you have essentially alpha plus polyite and the polyde is nothing, but alpha plus Fe3C. Now, suppose I take this steel and I subject it to a temperature ok a temperature greater than 200 degree Celsius and I have hydrogen in the system. Now, what would happen that steel is nothing, but iron and the carbon is present the carbon is present as the polyite. When you do this when you heat steel in in in hydrogen what is expected to happen. So, when the steel is exposed to hydrogen atmosphere the temperature above 200 degree Celsius right. Now, what can happen now thethe carbon present in the steel will react with hydrogen and it can form emitting gas. So, the carbon is essentially removed right if you do this then it becomes what it becomes an iron and it becomes a methane gas. Now, this reaction can a CH4 yeah this is a 4 hydrogen here you can balance the equation oh yeah sorry yeah to write thank you.  So, the carbon can interact with hydrogen either in the atomic form or in the molecular form. If it is in the molecular form it reacts only the surface then what happens it removes the surface carbides right you have a carbide essentially you have this. Now, if the atomic hydrogen diffuses into the steel and then form methane gas it just can happen. Now, what happens the molecular hydrogen of course, the atomic hydrogen also can react with the carbides present on the surface is possible right. Now, what could really happen right if we look at the reaction essentially it is it is a diffusion of carbon right diffusion of carbon to the surface when you remove carbides because the concentration of carbon or the surface is reduced because of decarburization. So, the poured in the bulk will slowly decompose into iron and the carbon will migrate to the surface and then form surface methane gas ok. So, you you see this happening.  As the time passes more and more carbides will decompose and come to the surface and form the methane gas. It is also possible the atomic hydrogen the hydrogen can also migrate inside and can form a methane gas in the grain boundaries these are all methane gas and they build pressure. If you build pressure in the grain boundaries what will happen to the grain boundary deform the form inter granular cracking. I I show you the micrographs of a steel containing 0.1 carbon because you have some chromium you have some molybdenum you have some vanadium in this without exposure to the high temperature and hydrogen content you can see the microstructure here you see a nice folite quite large extent of folite is seen right. On exposure to hydrogen in a holding in for about what is more than 110,000 hours you can see that the amount of folite got reduced because of the decarburization happening within the steel. So, this is one of the problems happen in industries especially it happens in hydrocarbon industries wherein you do what is called as catalytic cracking of hydrocarbons.  So, how do you get Indian gas? You get Indian gas from long chain hydrocarbon they are essentially liquid right and you fragment into smaller molecules they become gas and then they compress and give you as a liquid. So, when you take a long chain hydrocarbon you crack them into fine smaller molecules you what happens now you see that the hydrogen also evolves along with that. So, there is a free hydrogen the catalytic cracking is done at high temperatures because of the of the generation of hydrogen these steels they suffer decarburization. Now, decarburization leads to two kind of problems one of course is the cracking as as I have mentioned before. The other thing that can happen is can you fill up that what can happen if you remove carbon strength falls down. So, this is a a severe problem over here. So, how do we really control? How do we how can you really control? How do you control this? You need carbides to form you know I mean to to to have high strength to import high strength to steel right they are required, but the carbides interact with the hydrogen they decompose. So, how do I minimize decarburization? Any strategy? So, you have to form stable carbides right you have to form what is called as the stable carbides. You have some idea about stable carbides you know iron carbide is not that stable. Can you tell me an alternative carbide which is more stable than iron carbide could be titanium carbide could be vanadium carbide it could be as simple as chromium carbides. You know very well you know when it dealt with sensitization of stainless steels chromium carbides form in preference to iron carbide because that is the most most stable phase as compared to iron carbide. So, you allow the steel with chromium molybdenum more specially and you can also add vanadium kind of stuffs vanadium can have titanium all this kind of components, but more importantly people add chromium and molybdenum to that. Now, just look at this equation temperature right. Now, the decarburization tendency depends on what? Can you look at this equation and tell me? Present of hydrogen and temperature. Is a present of hydrogen and temperature. So, what how do you quantify this? It depends upon the partial pressure of hydrogen and the temperature of of the reaction. So, people have generated some data on this temperature partial pressure of hydrogen, this is the simple carbon steel, this is one chromium of moly steel and also have. So, when you increase the the hydrogen partial pressure to increase the temperature you see you need to have high chromium content and high moly content. Again, there is a limit beyond certain hours you see that if you increase you know beyond beyond certain partial pressure of hydrogen, if you increase the partial pressure of hydrogen again what happens? The temperature over which the reactor can be subjected can be reduced. This is the relation between the temperature of the reactor and the partial pressure of hydrogen in the reactor. If you increase the partial pressure the temperature at which the reactor can be safely operated is decreasing now. But you want to increase the temperature and increase the partial pressure of hydrogen and you go for high chromium and high moly content. So, this is a way the material is selected for the reactors where decarburization is a major problem. By the way the chrome moly steels are also known for creep resistance right. In order to have high creep resistance people go for chrome moly steels in in fact, it goes both ways ok.  So, that the stability of the steel against decarburization increases with more chromium content. So, chrome moly steels are better materials for environments where the decarburization is a is a problem ok. So, this is about the decarburization and these curves are called as Nielsen curves. Please look at this the decarburization is a high temperature phenomena and it is a chemical reaction taking place. In the case of hydrogen embrittlement it is a ambient temperature phenomena and it is a it is a more of mechanical loss in ductility because of embrittlement taking place. It is not an embrittlement here here because of loss in carbon the strength of the steel significantly reduced and beyond that it is a high temperature process. You can have a molecular hydrogen here you can have atomic hydrogen here both can cause problems as far as the decarburization is concerned. Let me go to the last topic of hydrogen damage that is called as hydrogen attack. This again is in high temperature process. It is found to happen especially in in copper base alloys especially in copper beryllium alloy systems. Copper beryllium is used you know the strength of copper beryllium is very high. In the copper base alloys assume that you have C2O in oxide inclusions are present and if you anneal this sometime what people do is you know when you have highly rolled work hardened aluminum I am sorry copper alloy and you want to remove these the riskless stresses you anneal it at high temperature in hydrogen containing atmosphere so that the copper is not getting oxidized it is reducing atmosphere. But if you are going to have it at other temperature what it can happen is you can combine with this and you can form steam. So, hydrogen can diffuse into the metal and you can form water. Please notice the water is at higher temperature at higher temperature what happens now this will be in form of a this will be in the form of a steam. So, builds up pressure and cause. So, it is an internal cracking it is happening because of hydrogen atomic hydrogen getting into the copper base alloy. Please notice copper is noble compared to hydrogen that is why hydrogen can reduce coppercoupress oxide leading to copper and water because of high temperature the water becomes a steam because of high volume it leads to a cracking process. So, this is a you know we termed as hydrogen attack in high temperature process ok. So, any questions in this so far? There are no questions I think this brings us to end of our discussion on stress corrosion cracking and hydrogen damage of metals.


There's such diversity. So every session you go into, there are people who are doing some stuff that's very grassroots and there are other people who are very institutional. And at other conferences, that's not really true. At the conferences, I go to, it's typically very institutional. So it's nice to have that diversity of background, diversity of thought, and that's always been a hallmark of SOCAP.


The president of one love charity organization, Patrick Eholo, said that one of the governorship aspirants of the People's Democratic Party, PDP, in a forthcoming governorship election in a two-state, Mr. Sue Igdalo, is not a homeboy and as such has no right to contest as governor of the state. Eholo made this statement in an interview with our sub-correspondent in Benin City, the state capital. Also, Eholo said Gavna Garvelobasekhi has failed the people of a two-state who voted for him in the last seven years in office. Hello. Hope you enjoyed the news. Please do subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.


It's going on everyone. Sam here at Layton Sports Cards. We're from 22 Tops Museum Collection in Tops Chrome Jumbo. Three box MLB mixer, number six Rendered Vision Style. There's a look again at your results. As always you can find those on the website under the results tab as well as the link in chat. It's a good look guys. We'll start with Tops Chrome Jumbo. We'll start with our two boxes, do our silver packs, and then we'll finish with the museum. Again should have 10 Tops Chrome Autos here. Hopefully you could snag a red or a super or a gold or something. That would be cool. No, all regular. That base split even, right? No, all regular base, okay. Rosaranna, Brandon Marsh, Matt Veerling, refractor rookie, nice one there. Crab leg of the Halloween costume in a Publix bag, that's great dude. Mount Castle, Green Wave, Cedric Mullins, the 99. Nice one there. Jose Abreu and Xander Bogertz. Prism is a retoxins, Tyler McGill, Refreshing, and it gets me laughing.  Because it's funny because what it's evolved from, there's nice Mike Trout on the Aqua to 199 for the Angels. Alexander Wells, Otto Yanni Hernandez, nice one there. That's going to be going to the Rangers and Lubeb. Tray Turner, there's Hard of the City is going to be, Detroit is going to be Miguel Cabrera. Joey Vado, another auto. Gavin Sheets, nice one there. Grats on that white side. He's starting to heat up a little bit down in the south side, or I should say up in the south side. I mean, everything's north, not south anymore. O'Neal Cruz, rookie right on top. So that'll still be a split even, right? Regular base is split even. Relfel Castro, there's Julio Urias and Johan Montcada. I don't know. He can't operate a locker. Clearly can't operate the locker out there. Sad, really. It's sad, really. Rafi Devers, Refreshing. Golden. I don't need to go home. Trevor Lorneck, Prism, Otto. Alec Thomas, nice one there for the Diamondbacks. N.L. West. Here you go, N.L. West. Very nice. Kim Grats on that one. Yeah, he's one of the guys who doesn't have a base in this, but has autos, which is nice. Him, J. Rod Witt, Abrams, a few others as well. I didn't know that that was an invitation to come back here. Just making fun of you. Do you remember inviting him back in here? Do you remember inviting him back over here, I should say? Walker Bueller. There's Harrison Bader on the negative. Wander Rookie. N.L. East, Tyler McGill on the Rookie Auto. Nice one there. Congrats on that. And Kyle Muller. That was the last time we ever saw a Rookie. Virdugo. Friend Mill Rass. That is Ronald Coonya, Jacob DeGram, and Whit Merrifield. Wander on the Prism Rookie. Nice one there. Congrats, Ale East. Very nice. And Josh Hayter, Refractor. You have one more auto, I believe, and there's only four in there. You've actually only team to not be shut out in this season. That's kind of wild. That's actually a pretty wild stat. There's Tyler Stevenson. Refractor Auto. Reverse San Martin. Nice one there for the NL Central to 499. Reverse San Martin. And Nelson Fruge. So that'll be Swartz. That would not be Fox Numero Doss. Bobby Dahlback to 199 on the Aqua. Shohei and Kyle Huntress. Vidal Bruhan. Aaron Judge, Prism. Oh man, what's coming up on Ely Morgan? Oh god, one of those things you even want to know. Prism, Cedric Mullens. First auto, AJ Alexi for the AL West. Nice one there. Congrats, AL West. And Aaron Ashby, Refractor Rookie. Oh geez, what's coming up? The trash list? True. Man, I think not this week, but next week. I think Swartz is on vacation. I think I'm going to be working Friday night, so I'll be here for a live release of the trash list. The glorified opinion piece, as I call it, since there's no validity committee to it. There's no validity committee. There's Vidal Bruhan. NLE's Peyton Henry, Rookie Auto. I am that committee. And Brandon Lousey. It's a one man committee, so that means it's just an opinion piece. It's just your opinion. That's all it is. No facts. No facts. Just opinion. Opinion. Look at the data, man. Opinion, there is no data.   I'm going to be honest with you. Green Heart of the City 299, Josh Hader. There's so much data. I just went there. Trent Grisham and Horat Saler. It doesn't take up much of my time to be honest, Shane. Seeing on number one on that list. Not losing sleep over it. Yeah. That is Prism out Curelaw, but based on a Spencer Watkins is going to the AL East. And Bobby Dalbeck. Oh, exactly. Undeniable. Opinion. Maybe even went through like three or four other people if I was number one. That's valid. I could have went through half of America. Okay. I think what it said, yes. Wanda Rookie. What it said, hell, yes. That's up. That's Shohei. That is Mike Trout. Logan Gilbert. Nice one there. Teele Wave Auto ALS 2 at 199. And Julias. That's right, Dean. 79 more days. That's such a great feeling. George Springer. Blue. Jose Ramirez. Blue Wave 275 for the Guardians. Yelich and Luis Garcia. Fortigo on Revolution PYT, guys. Those teams are all on sale as well. Those teams are all on sale. A couple of good deals still available. Definitely check it out if you are interested or the Rockets are still available. Jazz. It's going to Casey Meyes on the Prism and Wander Refractors. We had a Wander Prism and a Wander Refractor in two boxes. Very nice. Congrats, AL East. Yeah, I need football back around life too. I feel that, Dean. The only thing is when it gets here, it's gone so fast. I know. You're like blinking. It's gone. It's so annoying, dude. O'Neill Cruz Rookie. Same deal there. That is going to be a Prism. Chris Sayle. Nice one there for the Red Sox and the AL East. Alex Kirolov. Blue Auto to 150. AL Central. He's starting to heat up a little bit as well. And Paul Goldschmidt Refractor. Let's do our two Silver Packs now. I'll see something crazy out of this. Bobby Dalbeck. Don Carlos Stanton. Shohei Otani. And Ernie Clement. Refractor Rookie. There's a Wander Rookie on ENHAP and Bryce Harper Refractor. All right. Fortunately, nothing big in there. Let's do Museum. So it says all regular base, what do you think? I'm not going to count Museum Base. I would say just put this with everything. What's what here? Those are sort, that's what you need. This is going to be just very clear. I'm going to say so, yeah. My, my, my humble opinion. There is a Alec Bohm on the canvas creations. We've got Tyler Glasnow. Nice one there to 200 going to the AL East archival autographs. And Copper Hobby Bytes. Not that I'm aware of yet, Shane. No. I think Lane's been going through a lot of stuff. So I'm assuming it's probably got to be coming up relatively soon. Blue Bob, Mike Trout. There's a big hurt. 16 of 50 going to the AL Central on the Jersey Guard. Frank Thomas. Nice one there. And there was Vest Jersey. And a blue Salvi to 150. Wander Rookie. Nice one there. We've got Hoseil Tv. 50 of 99 on the Quad Jersey for the AL West. That's AL West on that. And an Anthony Rizzo. Last mini box of the break. I'll write a note on the sale sheet after. Killabrooved, Al Bruhan. We've got Derek Lee going to the NL Central. Nice one there on the Jersey. 170 out of 399. That's NL Central. Tom C with that one. And a KB on the Copper. All right guys, that's going to do it for the break. We'll do a quick recap here. So over there at Jersey's we had Hoseil Tv and a Frank Thomas. And Autos. We had Derek Lee. Tyler Glass now. That's going to be Spencer Walkins. Peyton Henry. AJ Alexi. Riva San Martin to 499. Tyler McGill. Alec Thomas. Nice one there. Gavin Sheetz. Yanni Hernandez. And Alex Kirilov to 150. It's going to do it for the break everyone. Thanks again for the fill. Up next is the Bowman's Best and Five Starman.


You all set? Yeah. Let me have her. You're okay to go? Okay. Welcome to the Monday, March the 6th, 2023, my beginning of the Design Review Committee. My Pealier, I will let the committee members and staff introduce themselves. Chair Jolerson, member. Benjamin Cheney, member. Meredith Crandall, staff. Steven Everett, member. Martha Smirsky, member. Lucy Zabson. Oh, okay. At this point, we will let Meredith review the remote meeting procedures. We have two applicants on remotely, and I'm not quite sure. I don't have anybody for the third application yet, but I know that they know that the meeting is going on, so we'll see what happens. Okay, so, oops. I'm a little slow today. I'm out of whack. So, hold on one second. Got to bring up a presentation for anybody watching via Orca Media. I knew there was something I forgot. Okay.  What's on the screen is mostly for anybody watching via Orca Media, but the information that I'm going to be sharing is for everybody who's on remotely. All right. So, for anyone watching tonight's design review committee meeting via Orca Media, you can participate in tonight's meeting via the Zoom platform through either video or telephone access options. So, you can either type this link into your web browser or you can call in using this phone number and this meeting ID when prompted and you will be able to both hear the meeting and participate. If anyone is having problems accessing the meeting, please email me at mcrandallatmontpillier-vt.org. For those attending via Zoom, turning on your video is optional. For everyone attending, please keep your microphone on mute. When you're not speaking, this will reduce background noise. And the Zoom chat function should only be used for troubleshooting or logistics questions. Right now, all we have on remotely is applicants, but if a member of the public does sign on, please make sure to raise your hand, either physically or using the raise hand button on your toolbar and wait till someone has, till the chair is called on you to speak. If the public is unable to access this meeting and I would get notice of that via email, the meeting would need to be continued to a time, place, and certain. Okay, I'm in place certain. All right, thank you very much. I'm going to hand this back over to the chair. At this point, unless anybody has anything to add, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? And I'll second it. All in favor of the agenda, speak your names. Martha. Ben. And Steve. Agenda is approved. We can go forward to the first application for a Putnam Street. Steve Ribellini, applicant Joe Boulie, for a new science. Joe's looking to unmute himself. It looks like there. Hi. Hello. How's it going? Happy Monday. Happy Monday. Go ahead and describe your sign for us. We are looking to do something pretty simple. And it's basically our logo for the cafe. It's going to be painted in white directly onto the building. So we're not going to be having to attach anything. And currently, we are not looking at lighting. That is something I've got to discuss with Steve at a later point. But we're just looking to let people know where we are. And Joe, again, what does NOA stand for? They're the initials of my three daughters, Nikita, Olivia and Anik. And the three of them have all worked in the business over the years. And so for lack of coming up with something super catchy and snappy, I took the easy way out with the name. When do you hope to start this, Joe? The sign or the business? A sign. Well, as soon as we can, probably when the weather is a little bit warmer, because we're it's going to require us to put up some on the front of the building. We are going to have to put up a little bit of scaffolding. Nothing permanent or ridiculous. But it's going to be easier than trying to work off of a couple of ladders. So preferably nicer weather and hopefully with a little bit of sunshine. So when you're thinking of the lighting, depending on how easy or difficult it is to run wiring for either a canopy or a goose neck light, you have a decent exposure to do a solar light. Yes, exactly. Yep. And the nice part of that building as old as it is, the second floor, boy, it's an old granite shed. So it's all exposed beams and it's open all the way to the peak. So the wiring is going to be relatively uncomplicated. But I've said that before to my chagrin as well. So be careful what you wish for. Exactly. I'm learning to get a little bit more cautious with what I say. So is anybody on the committee have any suggestion regarding lighting rather than have to come back? We could give him the option of putting either a hardwired goose neck or canopy fixture or a solar fixture. Maybe a black color that sort of blends in with the rest of the facade of the building at the locations of the signs. I would be fine with any of those. OK. I have been looking at a black goose neck. So we're on the same page with that. Nothing crazy. OK.  I'm not a pro at this. I'll call it the lampshade. It measures about 18 inches. But it's just a classic goose neck. Nothing crazy. Yes. With a flood bulb in it that would give you a good spread that would light your sign up pretty nicely. Yes. Yep. Were you thinking just one, Joe? One on each sign. One on each sign. Yes. Yep. OK. We can, again, we can add that in as an option for you. Oh, OK. That would be great. The light ought to come out fairly far from the building just to be able to cover the signs. And to be able to reach back. It's tied to the building. It's going to hit a wash straight down. Yeah. And it's going to, the clavards are going to create shadows. OK. So I would do a long goose neck, a swan neck, maybe. OK. I think what I'm looking at would come out. I'm going to 18 to 24 inches, probably closer to 24. I would go with the 24. Just prevent those shadows. OK. All right. Now you're teaching me something. Oh, I'm taking notes. So, Joe, what this having that recommendation in will do is mean that you don't have to come back to the design review committee to get installed. But you would still need to get a separate administrative site plan amendment permit for the light because we have to evaluate the lumens that are being emitted on the parcel. So just so you know, you still need to come back to Audra and me when you figure out the exact like fixture you want. But you wouldn't have to come back to the design review committee. OK. Oh, perfect. That works. OK. As long as what you propose fits in with what they're recommending, you know, giving you as an option, then that'll help. Yeah, we're keeping things pretty simple. I'm not trying to do anything too ostentatious. So any other comments, questions, or suggestions? For another project, we've got specifications for shades. Yeah, that's for the third application. But I'm looking here and they have ones that go out 27 inches and as much as 48 inches. Oh, for the goose neck? Yeah. OK, I'm not looking at 48. I just said a 24 to 36 inch goose neck. Yeah. You know, we want to keep the building we've gotten siding up and, you know, we've cleaned it up pretty nice. And so I'm just looking to keep it pretty clean and simple. We even kind of kept the original color on it when we did redo the siding. So it's kind of a landmark. People don't realize what you're talking about until you. Oh, yeah, that. OK, I walk by it every day. So I want to, you know, hopefully get that keep that working to my advantage. OK, good. I can go through the criteria for signs in the design control overlay district. Number one, the size, location, design, color, texture, lighting and material of all exterior signs within the design review district shall be compatible with the building and structures of the site and surrounding properties. This one's acceptable. Where appropriate, signing shall respect the original sign placement and sign bands on historic structures on the side of this building where it's located is acceptable. If a building has multiple tenants. There's this one would not be applicable. It is recommended that sign placement be centered over building entries. These locations are acceptable. Sign installation shall minimize damage to the character defining materials of the building acceptable. Sign design color and typography shall respect historic precedents where appropriate and shall be the appropriate scale for existing and new buildings acceptable. All in favor of the application with the option for the Gooseneck light fixture, speak your names. Eric, Ben, Martha and Steve. It is approved for to nothing in favor. Are you Joe's wife? Um, any chance I can get you to sign this recommendation form since we got the option and then and then we should be able to issue the sign permit tomorrow as long as the office. Perfect. Awesome. And did you sign the sign in sheet when you came in? If you can just before you leave, if you do that, be great. Same for you too, as well. If you didn't sign in. Awesome. Thank you. Me thus. Oh, I signed in the wrong place. Myself. Friendly, thank you for not paying attention to what I'm doing at the present. Thank you. All set. Thanks, Joe. All right. Thank you, everybody. Appreciate it. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Have a good night. The next application is for a state street owner Vermont rental solutions applicant, P.J. Berry. P.J.'s on remote. There he goes again. Hello. Hello. Go ahead and describe your sign for us. Hi. My sign is just the lettering. I had previously met with you guys towards the end of last year. And the recommendation from the design review committee was that the words were too thick and hard to read. So I've changed the font to just a standard sans and made them much skinnier. It's just the letters or world cow. And they're 15 inches tall. And it occupies the same space as proposed before, where the first letter of world W and the last letter of cow W kind of land sort of middle of the windows. And they're just white lettering. They're either going to be wood or kind of like the outdoor vinyl plastic. And yeah, it's just the name of the business that I'm doing business as. Seems as though you're showing us three options. Is there one that you prefer? Oh, there's two. Why not? There was a sans and then a sans bold. I kind of like the skinniest one. Just the sans. I think it looks clean. And I agree with the DRC's decision earlier. I think it was a good call to make them thinner. I certainly think I prefer the thinner. And I think I'm happy to hear that's your first choice. Also, I think it looks really nice. I agree with you too, DJ. I like it too. I don't know if you guys can see the decals in the window, but those are not going to be like that. The circle logos will be on the inside of the window.  But I just wanted to point that out, because it looks like in the image I resubmitted that they're on top of the window. DJ, so on the copy that got scanned for them, I put a little note that the decals would go inside the window glass. Just so that it's not actually subject to zoning, but I kept it in the application package because you submitted it. OK, OK, thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. And thank you for confirming that I caught that for them. I did have a question about the lettering and the installation. And it was kind of last minute inspired by the previous gentlemen that you guys were talking with. If I were to paint those exactly how you see it white directly on the wood, could that be like an alternative that we talk that we maybe that I know it's too cold now. But and I am going to find somebody to make the letters. But I was just wondering if that could be an alternative option. Find me. I think it creates some sort of a maintenance headache in the future, but. That's up to you. For painting. Painting directly on that sign ban. Do we have to directly on the sign ban in that area? I'm not sure. I think it is. I'm sorry, I was going to ask, is the sign ban solid or is it several boards boards together? Is several boards, but it's got a pretty heavy coat of paint on it. So it's pretty smooth when you get up there. I would stencil it. If I were to paint it, I would stencil it and then I would hand paint it with a really high quality exterior white that I use on my murals that for seven years now look like I painted them yesterday. I it's just a thought. I mean, it's way too cold to be doing that. And I'd rather just get them made and hung up and installed. But I didn't even really consider that until that gentleman said that that he was planning on painting directly. So if that was an option, you know, I just would be nice to know if that was an option for what it's worth. I think it would be very nice to have it painted directly on there. I think it would actually stand out as a unique way of of having your sign. And I think it would be very clean and very. Sophisticated to have it just be nice and flat like that myself. We we could actually give you the option to either paint it on directly or to do separate letters applied to the to the sign ban. So if you if you start to paint it, it doesn't come out like you hope for. You have also the option of putting individual letters on. That would be great if I had both because I do like the idea of hand painting it. It's kind of what I do. Um, you know, it's just a matter of timing. I know in April we can get some pretty warm weather and I could do it in a day. And then to have that option to just paint over it with the same black and then do the actual letters out of wood or plastic if it didn't work out. That might be the approach that I would take. OK. That way, if we get lousy weather continuing, you have the option of painting the letters inside and then applying them. Yeah, exactly. I think that I could even have Bevan's make a vinyl stencil with that exact lettering and size for me to use and paint. So there's a little different ways to do it. But I do think that painting it right on would look really nice. The old sign ripped up a little bit of the old paint. And so I did find some of that in the store to kind of fill in that black. Awesome. My preference is to have letters attached, but I would not fight your option of painting directly on the board. But I just want to state my preference. Thank you.  If you did end up painting it on and then you ended up finding that. There were issues maintenance wise with it because the permit, the design review committee gave you the option either way. I think if you just came in and let us know ahead of time that you were going going instead after a couple of years with replacing the painted on directly painted on letters with individual letters, I don't think we'd make you go back to a design review if it was still going to look the same. Because OK, yeah, that I would make them so that they're identical and it would just cover. Yeah, so, you know, just letting you know and giving that heads up because you would basically be even recreating the exact same thing just with the other option that the design you committee gave you. Yes, thank you so much. Yes, I like both of those. And the the lighting is currently there. Is that correct? It is, I honestly, there's there is one light switch inside the store that I don't know where it goes to. And I just haven't been down there at night, so maybe it's for those lights. I'm not sure if, yeah, if they're working or not, those two gooseneck lights, but I'll I got I got a look at that. Well, the fact that the fixtures are already there, it's up to you whether you choose to, you know, put bulbs in them and get at them working again, but you don't have. Apply, yeah, that's already in existence. Yeah, no, I'd like them. I think I mean, I haven't taken a it's been a while since I've been there at night. But I think it looks nice to have the lights on there. Well, it's a nice option for you in the middle of winter when it's dark at four o'clock. Exactly. Yeah, I'm surprised I haven't noticed yet. But I'll tomorrow I should be able to stick around late enough to see. Does anyone have any other on the committee have any other questions or comments? I can go ahead and read down through the criteria. Or signs in the district, the size, location, design, color, texture, lighting and material of all exterior signs within the district shall be compatible with the buildings and structures of the site and surrounding properties that's acceptable. Where appropriate signing shall respect the original sign placement and sign bans on historic structures. Acceptable if a building has multiple tenants, there shall be consistency and placement and size among all signs. Acceptable. It is recommended that sign placement be centered over building entries. Acceptable. Sign installation shall minimize damage to the character defining materials on the building. Acceptable. Signed design, color and typography shall respect historic precedence where appropriate and shall be the appropriate scale for existing and new buildings. Acceptable. Sign support structure shall be compatible with the building characteristics and must not be overly complex or dominant in and of themselves. Acceptable. And again, the option was that you have the option to for applying individual painted letters to the sign ban or painting lettering directly on the sign ban. All in favor of the application, speak your names, Eric. Martha, I'm a yes. And Steve, all in favor. So, DJ, I will be emailing you a copy of the recommendation form that Steve just went through. And you can, we're going to need your signature on the last page and an applicant block just because they did add the option in. We want to make sure that we've got confirmation that you agree with that option. And then once we get that back from you and you can either you can bring it into the office or you can just scan that signed page and email it back. Then we'll be able to go forward with processing the permit and getting that issued. OK. Thank you, everybody, so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you very much for coming back.  Thank you. We can go forward with the next applicant for 707 Stone Cutters Way owner FHS Holdings, applicant R.K. Miles. So, one or both of you want to come up to the microphone so that at this point it's Orca Media can hear who's ever talking and feel free to adjust the microphone so it's as close to you as possible. It also means that our recording secretary can hear you on the recording afterwards. Go ahead and describe your application for us. Good evening. I'm Steve Conner and Conner Contracting and R.K. Miles has hired us to do the work associated with the new entry element that you see on the drawings as well as some much needed facade improvements. I'm joined by Jeff Notech, who's the manager in Montaigneur and just wanted to talk briefly about the fact that they want to do these improvements to the store and they're using it as a way to showcase some of the products that they sell, whether it's Marvin gliding windows or a whole bunch of different siding elements, also looking to improve handicapped accessibility into the store through the covered entry that you see and also trying to take some of the rainwater from the uproof and have that fall in behind the parapet and to travel along the dotted line that you see on the drawing that will then eventually make its way to the river end of the building. I think Dan has worked with Kyle and Jeff to send over a number of different products, which they identified for use and I'm happy to answer any questions that you guys might have. And I can also pull things up on the screen if anybody needs that. They have printouts of everything and it printed out the new stuff I got to that thing of copies of that. Appreciate that. And I just wanted to make sure there was one other thing that Dan had submitted late to you, which was the use of natural cedar clapboards in behind the railing that you see in the picture, just again to try and have some wood elements to show customers. Yeah, so that's I've got I can put that up on the screen. So that was one of the things I gave you guys today and those two new ones, but I can also there we go. So instead of because I think in the plans it was trying to remember if it was if there was something else in the plans for that area. You're starting to be identified or to be determined. Yeah, yeah. That was the one that was not identified when we threw it in. And regarding the railing that you enter, I feel like you're telling us you're proposing this aluminum cable rail infill panel and the drawing shows a vertical baluster style, something that I'm just checking in to make sure. So that's a great question. I think the the railing that was submitted the aluminum rail with cable infill along that long side underneath the porches is one element. And I don't think we've probably identified the handrail itself, which will come up the ramp, which is intended to be a galvanized handrail which shows on the overhead plan, the partial floor plan as it's called out. So that's something that Department of Public Safety will want. So that's outboard of all that. Yes. A simple double rail. So thanks for that question. So board and bat and real board and bat are as a D111. Jeff, can you speak to that? Yes. So we were looking at the party board that side. It's an actual board. Okay. At weight. At weight. Hardy, I think of as a concrete product, but it's. That is, we were looking at hardy board or the LP smart side. Yep. They both offer the same thing. It's a similar kind of same design, different products in that one. Both in a slate blue. Both in a slate blue for above. Yes. Our further band. Yeah. This is going under the canopy. No, it's going around the canopy. Actually correct. Yes. So it's above the, above the doorway element behind the RK mile sign that's shown with lighting and around the left and right sides. You're not here. Staying with a little product. Do you want to use the party board? The LP is what we're looking towards. I'm sorry. Same thing it's meant for? No, LP is a wood product. Oh, yeah. I'm not familiar with the names. The LP smart side is a, it's a wood product. Yeah. So it's exciting, but they do the board. If I'm understanding you correctly, this is just for the area underneath these overheads. It's not for the entire building. Is that correct? Correct. That is the board and bat would be the strip of room under the windows. Yep. You were proposing a major siding change. Yeah. So that's, but yeah. Yes, it's, what's up there is very tired, very bad. It's a crack. It has a, actually it's, it's still sun faded. So you can see all of your company. Yeah. Yes. It hasn't been touched in a long, long time. And so all of this is switching to vertical board and bat. And you're going to keep this side horizontal, but new. The board and bat is big. See where they sign our k-biles. So that portion projects out. That's the only portion that would be the board and bat. Right where the hand is now. Okay. The blinds don't seem to quite match up. I think this is vertical metal siding that has a little line that goes and goes to point here. And this says new LP smart side siding here. Maybe I've got, maybe you sent an updated one with Dan. And I just didn't realize that that one was updated. You know, vertical metal. Yeah. So hold on. Let me go back to my email. I didn't realize it was corrected. Okay. So hold on. Let me go back to Dan. I didn't realize it was a new plan with new codes. All right. So if you guys look up on the screen. Hold on. Are you going to keep DJ Barry's cow on the outside of? That's actually on the back of one of our sheds. Yeah. Just because we just had that. That's still a little bit of siding for this, but so I don't think I got the correct one. Is that cow going to stay? I don't think I got the correct one. So I don't think I got the correct one. Is that cow going to stay? Cow's going to stay. Okay. I'm about to sign off, but I did want to say a little Steve Conner, because he's a good family friend of mine. Okay. DJ, we're not going to touch the cow. Okay. Thank you. But you know, let's talk. Take care. All right. The load of the family. So yeah, I don't have an updated one. So the vertical is going to be board and batting. Board and batting. That's correct. Yeah. Not vertical metal. Okay. And where the metal is going once there now? Vinyl, very old vinyl siding. I think you can see it. I don't know, Meredith, if you could pull up the photos that we included. Yeah. And another one around the corner too, which is equally tired. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that just gets stripped off and you replace it. Yeah. And as part of the construction, which will give our application to the DRB, we all, in order to do this project, we'll have to put in a temporary entrance to the store to the left, just on a temporary basis to get customers safely in and out. So it's be a bit of work on that also, but. Siding on this end, that will be horizontal. Is that Brett? Jeff, is that the intent to put this siding? Is that going to turn the corner? Everything visible from the road, from stone cutters, will be the metal vertical siding coming all the way around on the main building facing the parking lot. The main building is clapboard, basing into the parking lot, as well as under the roof is also clapped board. That one will just be, the color will match the metal on the front of the building. So if we're looking at that elevation, what Jeff is saying, we're looking at that elevation. There's a four wide window there on the bottom left. Yeah. Yes. Everything to the left of that vertical corner board going out to the road, it's going to be the vertical metal siding. And turning the corner, facing stone cutters. Both sections of the north elevation. Yes. Correct. Once it gets to the, as the office is into the main building. Okay. You'll see this little bit of horizontal here that's in the lower part, should be looking around. Yep. Yep. These are vertical. And then, yep. And this little strip of the roof will be over, will be vertical. Right. Board and matting. Yep. Yep. Yep. And there's no elevations of the river side. Is there anything changing on that side? No, there really isn't. So the case is going to be there and. There really isn't. We did a couple of stairway exit stair improvements on that old stairway that's there, but mostly just some code improvements to be able to get people safely off the second floor, working with Meredith and with Michelle. Yep. So. Again, what color do you expect the exterior to be inside? It's going to be a charcoal grade, a darker grade than what it currently is. More along the lines of, like the National Closed Bender, or the player, about that same, similar to that color there. And then the, again, the proposed color for the vertical, working batting. We love the rest of the mural goes to us. Slightly blue. Blue. Yep. Yes. And then. Like the Alamo program, or K-Miles that wraps around. Okay. It would have signage, of course, facing the parking lot inside, which would also be the R-K-Miles blue to match the signs currently on the floor. Any committing members have any other comments, questions, or suggestions? Okay. Then I can go. Was it, were there any changes that you noted that from the original application or everything? Yeah. It's the one really note, one note about the board and batting being on the front, being there into the vertical metal. That was a little bit different. And I'm happy to see the file. I just wanted to add one other thing, which is, I think the materials that Dan sent over might have shown a dark bronze front door entry element. And I'm just wanting to point out that since R-K-Miles has talked about ebony window frames, we're probably going to go with a black door frame as well. So. Okay. Yep. That would match. Yeah. Just so it matches, I just wanted to point that out. Probably goes better with the gray and blue. Correct. Yeah. Thank you. Just to go ahead and change the panel, don't need to fill it in a moment. No, it'll be, it'll be just go. No, it'll be in a minute. Okay. And regarding the cow, I can't speak for Mr. Miles on the cow. But I'll leave that for a later date. It's not a sign it's public art. That's between you guys and D-Day. I can read down through the criteria for this project. Exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing buildings shall be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. Editions and alterations to non-historic and non-contributing structures shall respect and be compatible with the existing patterns and setbacks found in adjacent buildings. New additions on non-historic and non-contributing structures that overshadow or diminish the historic character of adjacent contributing structures of activity. This application is acceptable. And my pen just read that over again. Thank you. Existing buildings shall be recognized as a physical record of their time, place, and use acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities, mechanical equipment, trash storage, and fencing shall be cited to minimize adverse visual impact or adequately and appropriately screened from public view. It's acceptable here. Additions to buildings called forward by public safety, accessibility, and fire code shall be designed to maintain the character of the construction materials and features to the maximum extent feasible, acceptable. On there that didn't have lighting, they did add in one light fixture and the stuff that I added into your packets today. So just keep an eye out for that non-applicable. That's usually in the sign, but just keep your eyes open. Double check. Don't just trust my non-applicable. The height of building additions shall not overwhelm the primary facade and must consider varied heights of existing buildings and adjacent buildings. And it's not a new building, but the existing building is acceptable. Proportion, compatibility of relationship between width and height of facades, as well as relationship of width, the height of windows and doors acceptable. Rhythm, visual patterns established by the alterations of solid walls and openings, windows and doors, and the facade of a building shall create a rhythm acceptable. Roof shape and equipment, consider similarity or compatibility with roof shapes in intermediate area, conceal rooftop equipment and features on flat roofs from eye level, from adjacent public rights of way, and from the ground level of any adjacent properties, acceptable architectural features, including but not limited to cornices, windows, shutters, fan lights, and tabulate tour, trim, and other forms of molding and character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building shall be considered in the alteration, acceptable. Roof drainage systems shall not hide or obscure architectural character defining features and shall run adjacent to building corners when possible, acceptable. Outdoor lighting, structural design of outdoor lighting fixtures shall be compatible with the architectural design and function of the building and compatible with the neighborhood, acceptable, and actually that was all. All in favor, the applications, speak your names.  And Steve says yes, so vote is four to nothing in favor. Since you're here, when do you sign that? Down at the bottom. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you for coming. Have a good night. Good luck with your project. Thank you. Love the weather's kind to you during your construction. Thanks for that wish. We share the same word. We'll try and get this permit out in the mail tomorrow or the next day at the latest, right? What's the next ERV date, Meredith? Do you know that I'm talking about? Oh goodness. I don't know off the top of my head what the next deadline is. Can you email me? Sure. Because though you're tweaking, you think you might actually have to go to the ERV for the outer space? Well, I didn't. If you only stick with the one additional parking space, that was administrative. That's okay. Yeah, that's to go to the ERV. That's through me. Okay, we'll come see you then. We'll talk. Awesome. Okay. Thank you again. Thanks again. Thank you. Thank you. You too. Oh, that one's still dead, right? Yes. That's my pen.  We can approve these minutes for December 5th. So everybody had a chance to look at the December 5th minutes. Eric just moved. I'll second. Yeah. Speak your names for the final approval. Ben. Martha. Yeah, I mean. Good. And then it says 12.21. Yeah, I didn't. We didn't. I'm sorry. We have 221. We didn't get those until yesterday, so I haven't even had it. Chance Scantron. That wasn't in the office till like 2.30. So I just want you guys to know that I lose. I thought we were going to get these done actually in June. We were able to get it together. We kept going back and forth and back and forth. It just kind of feels like June already. Winter and Mother Nature got together and say, oh, we forgot Vermont. Awesome. Does anybody have anything else? Otherwise, do we hear a motion to adjourn? No. I'll second. All in favor of adjournment. Speak your names. Martha. Ben. Steve. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you for coming. Thank you guys.