This off season for the Baltimore Ravens has literally been nonstop. We're already in the month of June, we're two months away from preseason, three months away from the regular season, so we're getting right there and it feels like stuff is maybe starting to slow down, but at the same time, who knows, it could just be picking up. But as of right now where the Ravens stand, they still have a couple of questions that surround this team. And to help us answer some of those questions and to talk about some of those topics, we brought on a very, very, very special guest. Yeah, this feels like a dream. I ain't no jazz, but a man. You too, team, keep it clean. You see my boy, he like, got him made it. Got him made it. Boy, that's my homie, ain't that right in Raven? Right in Raven. Team Keep It Clean, very, very special guest in the building, Bobby Trusted, Bobby Baltimore. Welcome to the channel. Before we dive into things, I want Team Keep It Clean to get to know you, get to know your background story, get to know who you are, why you're doing what you're doing, how you jumped into YouTube. So let's hear it, tell us about Bobby Baltimore. Absolutely, I appreciate you having me on, man. I've been watching your stuff for a long time. You know that. And I know you don't, you're not this type of guy, right? But you are the blueprint on Raven's YouTube. So I appreciate you having me on first and foremost. But yeah, I'm originally from upstate New York, the Albany area came down to school in Baltimore and really never left. I did a brief little two-year stint in D.C., but when Keith Mills' job opened up, and he is the longtime sportscaster in Baltimore, when his job opened up at the flagship station of the Ravens at WBAL, I jumped at the opportunity. I earned the opportunity, I was given the opportunity. And so we're really just a couple of months removed after almost three years with the team working the Ravens post-game and pre-game shows and all kinds of stuff alike in Baltimore sports. We're just a few months removed from me taking that next step in my career to plunge headfirst into YouTube and I'll be launching a podcast later on this summer. And so I'm really excited.  There's a certain freedom and flexibility and even an innovation that comes with this space. And I know you've enjoyed that throughout your time as well. And so it's been a, wow, I don't even know. It's been invigorating, re-invigorating. And so pretty fired up about it. And I'm fired up to talk about OTAs and everything that's coming up right now and all things Ravens with you. Oh yeah, for sure, man. And I appreciate you coming on. Now you did mention you're gonna be starting a podcast. Now is that podcast gonna be based around Baltimore Sports, is it gonna be more personal or what's the podcast gonna be about? Yeah, it's gonna be all things Ravens. I am sort of strong to keeping it hush-ush for right now, just based on the terms and all that stuff. But I am comfortable enough to say that it will be coming at some point, the launch at some point this summer. So I'll definitely have more on that soon. All right, cool. So we look out for it. And before we get into things, where can everybody find you at as far as Twitter, YouTube, even though everything's gonna be down below in the description, where can everybody find you? Yeah, wherever, man. You just, you mentioned it. You know, I'm pretty active on the big four, right? YouTube, Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. I still, my millennial self should be more in TikTok. But right now I just, I'm so focused on building the channel that I'll get into TikTok in a little bit. But you can find me on all those things just at Bobby Trossett, S-B-O-B-B-Y-T-R-O-S-S-E-T. Yeah, that's true. And yeah, you definitely really big on Facebook. Every Ravens group that I see, your name's always popping up in there, man. So let's get into it. You, the other day, well, actually a couple of days ago, two different days, you and a little viral in the Ravens community. More recently, you got Lamar going back and forth with Chris Sims. And tell us how you felt about that, about Chris Sims comments about Lamar Jackson and OTAs. And just really this whole thing with Lamar Jackson and OTAs. How you feel about that? Yeah. Wow. What a day that was leading into the holiday weekend, right? I mean, you kind of just, look, I've gotten to know Lamar a little bit just based on my role the last few years and the proximity that the role had me to the team. But to say that we're buddy, buddy would be a stretch. And he doesn't follow me online. I think he just, it obviously started taking out, taking on some steam and he had an opinion about it because let's face it, everybody's had an opinion recently about him and his decision to skip, yes, voluntary OTAs. So I just thought that it was a compelling take. That's all. I thought it was a compelling take from Chris. And I thought it was a more than fair response on Lamar. And of course, of course, those, you know, your viewers out there that aren't familiar, I'm sure they are at this point, but Lamar essentially clapped back at Chris for criticizing him about skipping OTAs, at least the first session of OTAs. We'll see what the rest of the way looks like. But, you know, I thought that Chris essentially alluding to comments made by Lamar earlier in his career that he wants to be the Tom Brady of his era, put him up for the, left it open for criticism, I would say. I don't think it's a big deal. I do not think it's a big deal in the short term that Lamar is skipping OTAs. In the long term, however, I do. And I do think it sets a precedent that this disconnect, this perceived disconnect between Lamar and the front office, there's multiple layers to it. And this is another layer. And so while I don't think it's a huge deal in what the 2022 season will bring for Lamar himself and this offense, I do think that in the long term, as their franchise guy, it leaves more questions than answers. Oh yeah, there are definitely a lot of questions surrounding Lamar Jackson right now. Now, as far as this Raven's offense this year, what are your expectations for them based off of right here right now, with the way that they've drafted, with the way that they've signed some different free agents and also brought some guys back to, both recent guys like a Pat Ricard and then both some throwback guys like a Brent, or that's not offense, but Brent Urban. But how do you feel like this Raven's offense is constructed for 2022? Boy, you getting waves of 2019 in, right? I mean, they're bringing in tight ends, like they're not playing, right? They want to get back to what they were doing with those multiple tight end sets in 2019 with that high powered historic offense. I'm not saying that they're going to sniff that. No other offense in the history of football may sniff that again in a single season. I mean, they broke all kinds of records, as you know. But can they get back to a certain percentage of that? Can they get back to consistently protecting the quarterback? And I think when you look at the off season that was for the front office led by EDC, there's a lot of boxes that have been checked. Have there been any big splashes? I think Marcus Williams on the defensive side of things can be coined as a splash. I would call him a splash. Yeah, that's one. But there hasn't been anything crazy. And I think that's okay, because if they get half of the guys back, that they, in some form of what they once were, that were injured throughout the contingent of players, the plethora of players that were down last year, if some of those guys come back, that's already having success in free agency, even though they've been under contract. So they've short up the offensive line. They have bolstered the running back room and brought in much needed depth that they did not have last year after their main guys went down. We saw that. That's no disrespect to Latavius and Devante. I think we could all probably agree on that. There was a significant drop-off. I really like what they've done this off season, but to get back to your question about the offense, is there a number one receiver on this team right now? That remains to be seen. Can Rashad be that guy? I think so. Will it be this season? I don't know. I think that there's a long story short. They went out and addressed significant needs that this fan base was crying for, and they should have been crying for. They went and handled that this off season. What do you think? Oh, yeah, for sure. Because the biggest thing to me was offensive line. Because offensive line last year was rough. Offensive line in the past couple of years has been rough, but also the offensive line last year has taken a big blow with losing Ronnie Stanley multiple times. And for them, I think one of the biggest things for them was just to make sure to stay ready so they didn't have to get ready. And with Ronnie Stanley, you don't want to expect him to go out, but you have to prepare better if he does go out. And now I think they did that this off season with just being prepared, just in case he's not ready. Now, we all expect and hope him to be ready, but just in case he's not, it seems like the Ravens are prepared for that. And also at the center position, with them drafting Tyler Lindenbaum, they've had a lot of flip-flopping at the center position over the past couple of years. It's had Matt Scurro, they've had Patrick McCary, they've had Tristan Cologne could steal. And then of course, Bradley Bozeman. And with a lot of those, like with Patrick McCary, he didn't consistently play center with Bradley Bozeman. He just played center for the first time in his NFL career last year. But now they're giving Lamar Jackson in his offensive line somebody who's placed in it throughout his collegiate career. And then he'll continue to do that in his NFL career. So he'll have that consistency. So I really like what they've done with the offensive line. And of course drafting Daniel Philele, who is just a monster among men. I wanna see him lined up next to Ben Cleveland just to see the size comparison with those two. Oh yeah. I word about in practice, him going up against the, you know, Cleis or if there are wolves out there, whoever it might be, right?  You have a trusty, reliable vet in Morgan Moses who you expect to be the fill-in, shoe-in starting right tackle come September. You got the guy who was the unsung hero last year among a group that was heavily criticized in Kevin Zeitler. Just a brick wall, very consistent. Tyler Linderbaum is expected to be that guy, that generational type of talent and a shoe-in starter at center. At left guard, I think that's probably the most compelling part here, right? Is it gonna be Ben Cleveland? I think the fan base probably wants it to be Ben Cleveland. You don't go and pay this off-season, McCary, six million a year, if you're not gonna use him, perhaps he wins that job. Then power should be in the mix as well. And then obviously that leaves Ronnie Stanley with the hope that he's ready to go. And finally, after a two-year battle with that ankle, you hope that he's ready to go. But I think, again, there are a lot more answers than there are questions. The opposite of what our first topic was with this ongoing contract dispute with Lamar in the front office. Now, back to that first topic. A lot of people have said that Lamar Jackson, it seems like he has to carry this offense on his back. Somebody else that had to do some carrying on their back was Derek Wolf with the bear. And that was another one of your tweets that went viral a couple of days ago. And because I don't follow Derek Wolf on Instagram, so I had no clue about it until I saw it pop up. What do you feel like is gonna happen with Derek Wolf? Because it's June 1st that we're recording this on. There's been a lot of speculation amongst Raven's fans about him possibly being a post-June 1st cut. We'll see. What do you feel like the direction of the Ravens and Derek Wolf's relationship is headed? Aang, have you noticed that, I know you don't follow him on Instagram and he's not very active on other platforms. So maybe you don't have a good feel for this. But he's been super distant, man. Like he's been very, very just at an arms length. And I know that every NFL player leading up to mandatory mini camp and stuff like that, right? They should have that right. Do your own thing because we both know as content creators, the six month grind is a grind. I mean, it's a next level grind for professional athletes when they're in season. So I don't wanna question the way he's handled his off season or the way he's spent his free time. But I just get the sense that based on some podcasts that he went on, I know Jonas Schaefer from the Baltimore Sun hopped on. The podcast snippet that essentially, he was mulling retirement because of that back in hip injury that forced him to miss all of last year. He then clapped, speaking of clapping back, he then clapped back at Jonas. Even though I think we could probably, I know we were both on top of this. I think we both felt that Jonas was well in his right. He did not overstep any boundaries there. And he certainly did not, you know, jumped any conclusions. I thought Derek left himself up for that type of criticism or at least wondering whether or not he was mulling retirement. Anyway, long story short. The whole cap casualty thing comes to mind, man. He would free up some significant coin for them and the way that they've bolstered this defensive line over the course of this off season, both in free agency and in the draft. I think it's a fair question and one that I've been thinking about a lot. And you can hear it in my voice. I have some doubts that Derek will be back in Baltimore. Yeah, it is a very intriguing situation because when they first signed him, yeah, that first year he did his thing, but then we just really haven't seen much of him ever since. And something that you did mention. Yeah, when you, I don't follow him on Instagram, but when you did post that, I did check out his Instagram and I said, okay, yeah, doing his things, celebrating with his wife and his kids and stuff, which is great, which is a beautiful thing and which I respect. But yeah, you did mention distant because like we literally, we of course heard Kaleas Campbell, he came back, he talked Ravens. They brought Michael Pearson, Marcus Williams and all these different guys. And we have like literally not heard anything from Derek Wolfe, not seen him, not heard that, oh, he's going to be like nothing at all from Derek. Now on the bear photo though, right? To get back to like, okay, if we are going to see him in a few weeks for minicamp, then I think we're going to be seeing a Derek Wolfe that isn't in as much pain as he was last year that required that January surgery. Because I'm looking at his Instagram and this dude has a 300 pound, and I'm sorry for those who are sensitive to hunting out there and some, obviously some folks are not up for animal cruelty and not to say that this was animal cruelty, right? But it is a difficult photo to see if you don't enjoy that, if you have a tough time seeing it, but he, and it was a difficult time too to have this on the internet because after the Texas massacre, so I definitely thought about that a lot before posting it, but then I did my research. It was actually bow hunting. It was not, he was not using a gun when he killed this bear. It was with bow and arrow essentially. So I felt like it was okay to go with that even though it's a slippery slope. Anyway, the reason why I posted it more so than anything else is because he just had surgery in January and it was a hip surgery. And when you have a 300 pound black bear on your back, I think that probably speaks to how your rehab's going, right? So I just thought it was fair game. And so anyway, it was in Wyoming, he's a hunter, he's a blue collar guy, and I hope he had a great time out there. Yeah, it looks like he definitely had a good time picking up bears and everything like that. Now, to stay on the defensive line, how are you feeling about this defensive line? More so the pass rush because it's expected, it's not official yet. It's expected that the Ravens are gonna get Justin Houston back. No, they did that crazy unrestricted free agent tender, which I had never heard of before, this off season. So he will probably be back. Of course, gotta die for your way. He's healthy. So he's been at OTAs and whatnot. So that's a good thing. David Ajabo, he'll be a bonus when he comes back. Well, how are you feeling about the pass rush as far as the Ravens? I think that's the big question because it has been in recent years. They've proven that they can win a ton of regular season games with a very, let's face it, lackluster pass rush. I think that's fair to say. They've had consistent pressures, right? From guys, Justin Houston comes to mind for sure, but they haven't been able to get home. So I think it's a unit that, again, to go back to the phrase of this episode, there's probably more questions than there are answers, but they have gone out and addressed it. And if Adafi Owe can come back fully healthy from that foot setback that he had that forced him to miss the last couple of games of last season, I think we're looking at a guy who could very well be a pro bowl caliber guy for them. And we don't know what David Ajabo's future is, obviously, in terms of his timetable. I think the optimistic look at him is October. But should we look at him as a dynamic game changer type of guy come October? Now there's gonna be a learning curve, I would imagine, for a guy like that who's barely even playing football for all that long, right? I mean, his background does not have a ton of experience playing the game of football. So I think we need to have some patience with him. And we should also remember too, that although Tyus Bowser is coming back from his Achilles setback, he's one of your more consistent guys as well. So again, they have proven that they can win a ton of regular season games without a true X wide receiver on the offensive side of the game and on the defensive side with a very lackluster pass rush. To me, those two areas have prevented them from winning consistently in postseason and making deep runs in the postseason. So can they make those strides in those two areas this upcoming season? And will that lead to, will there be a correlation there between a deep postseason run and that? Who knows, but it just feels like those two areas come to mind as areas of concern when it comes to having the stamina and having the consistency and the firepower to compete in late January. Now, how do you feel the Ravens should go about addressing that? The wide receiver position? Do you feel like they should run with the guys that they have already and the undrafted rookie free agents that you think they should add somebody from the outside or trade for, what do you think they should do there? Well, they've made it very clear how they feel about Rashad, right? When you get rid of Marquise Brown, I mean, granted, you didn't just get rid of them for nothing, great return. I think we can all probably agree on that. And you didn't pay them, right? You didn't end up paying them. Arizona's gonna have to dole out the big money there. And we know the wide receiver markets next level right now. It is. By them doing that, that tells me that they feel really strongly that Rashad Bateman can be that guy. We haven't seen it yet. We've seen flashes of it. We know he's silky smooth route runner. We know he's got great hands. We know his confidence is certainly oozing. There's no question about that. And we know he's got great chemistry with Lamar. To me, going out to get a Julio Jones or a Will Fuller, just to me, seems like somewhat of a bandaid. That seems like somewhat of a project like Sammy Watkins was. How do you look at the Sammy Watkins deal a year later? Was it worth it? I feel like all expectations, they were met. Because with Sammy Watkins, we didn't expect him to come in here and just take over the wide receiver room. I think most people expected him to miss a significant amount of games. And he did just that. When he did play, he was solid. And I think it didn't work out as a whole. But he met all of our expectations, especially when it came to injuries. For me, like a Julio Jones or a Will Fuller, somebody like that, it would give most of Julio Jones a Will Fuller. I mean, a lot of the free agents that are out there, they got the injury issues. T.Y. Hilton is another one. OBJ comes to mind. Oh, yeah, that's another one, too. And even before the Super Bowl injury, O'Dell Beckham has a history of injuries, too. Yes. Still, he's been a good player, but he has a history of injuries. But I just feel like I don't see the Ravens going into this season. And I would be shocked if they did. But if they went into this season with the guys, with just the guys that they have now, like a Bateman, a Pro Shade, a Duven, a Tylen Wallace, Benjamin Victor, all the undrafted rookie free agents that they signed. I would be really shocked if they did that. Because I just... But at the same time, Eric Acosta does seem to try to sort of be turning a page from the old way of Ravens do things, the old way of them doing things a little bit, slowly but surely. Because last year, he signed Sammy Watkins another year before. And he tried to sign T.Y. Hilton last year, to try to sign JuJu, but those weren't like those older receivers. But the year before that, he did sign Dez Bryant. So that, yeah. And the year before that, Seth Roberts, Willie Snead. So for the most part, under Eric Acosta, they've been signing younger wide receivers because, again, before last season, at the beginning of last off season, I think Sammy Watkins was like 27, 28. Even though me, I thought Sammy Watkins was like 30, 31 years old based off of the injury history. But when I found out he was like 27, 28, I'm like, what, really? That's crazy. A lot of these guys feel like they're in their 30s out of nothing after what their 20s has been. Yeah. And I apologize. We got a little thunderstorm going on right now, but I don't know if you can hear that. But I think we can probably agree, right, that all those guys that we just mentioned, the ones that are still remaining on the market, are any of them needle movers at this point in their career at what would be asked of them in Baltimore? I don't know. I think the, I would lean towards no. I think the answer is no. What do you think? I think, man, needle movers. Are any one of them needle movers for this offense, for what would be needed of them in Baltimore at this current point in the franchise? That's a good question. Interesting, right? It's a good exercise to have, I mean. I think with Julio, I think he could come in and help. I don't think he would be asked to be this 1,000-yard receiver. And with him, I feel like he would be on, he's not gonna be like the full-time, the number one guy, obviously. I think that still will be Rashad Bateman when that time comes. But I feel like with Julio, he could give you somebody that can go up and get it, somebody who has that experience, somebody who will provide you quality depth because the depth is lacking right now at the receiver position. And he's somebody that, with his experience, he's literally played in every single type of game that there is. He's played in every single pre-season game, every single regular season game, every type of playoff game. And of course, he's played in a Super Bowl and he's performed in all of those games too. So that experience, it could help. And not that he would have to come in and be a teacher, be a mentor, but that would be another benefit of adding somebody like Julio Jones for a lot of these young guys to just help show them the ropes and help Lamar too. Just to sort of give him that veteran in the locker room, in the offense, in the huddle, that can sort of ease Lamar as well. I feel like somebody who that was a couple of years back with 2019, Mark Ingram. Mark Ingram, his presence was huge. It was huge. And he obviously made an impact both on and off the field. The energy that he brought, it was just crazy. And he showed that energy from jump, from his first presser that he had with him and Earl Thomas when they had their pressers together that day, the energy was there like crazy. And then we saw that throughout his entirety of being with the Ravens, the support, him just getting guys riled up, him talking.  He like straight up supported his guys. And I feel like the Ravens on offense right now, they're just, they're missing that. Who's gonna be that guy for them? Somebody could of course step up, but who is it gonna be? And I feel like if somebody's gonna step up and have that voice, then I feel like it would get a lot more respected if it was somebody who had been there and done that. So that's what I feel like a Julio Jones could bring. Could he move the needle? Oh, he could push it. He could push it for sure. Now, and we know this Ravens offense, it's not based so much around wide receivers and whatnot. We know it's like super tight and friendly and whatnot, but having a Julio Jones, and I just envisioned him, and I wasn't even expecting to play every single game. I feel like if we expected that, that wouldn't even be realistic. But having somebody like him with a Rashad Bateman would approach, I feel like he could just help open stuff up for them that much more and help make Rashad Bateman and Mark Andrews and Tyler, whoever the other receivers are gonna be make their job that much easier, also while making Lamar Jackson's job that much easier too. And I think that should definitely be the goal of this offseason to try to make Lamar's job that much easier. If Julio wants to win at this point in his career and he wants to embrace the Lamar Jackson lead offense and the exciting nature that it is playing with Lamar, and embracing to your point the Mark Ingram type of role, the hype man, the tail end of your career, just enjoying things and winning games and embracing the town and the slogan, the Truz slogan. By the way, I was walking through Baltimore just a couple of days ago. I don't know why I had never seen this before, but it was in Fethill and a vehicle had their license plate, Truz, T-R-U-Z-Z. Had you seen that before? That was news to me. I'd seen it on like BIOS and on social media and shirts, but to go to the length of your license plate. I mean, that just speaks to, yeah, exactly. And it speaks to what the 2019 season was all about. But hey, I think we're on the same page here. If Julio at this point in his career wants to win and is open to taking a team friendly deal and because of some of the moves that they've made and will still make, perhaps it's their role for whoever else is potentially on the chopping block there, then maybe they could make something work. And while he wouldn't be a needle mover, like you said, I think you said it best, he would help push it in a collective unit that would be pushing that needle. So we'll see. I would love to see, I can't wait to see how things, you know it's gonna be one of those random days, right? It's gonna be totally the dead part of the season, right? Maybe July, when nobody's talking about anything, we're all on vacation, right? You're trying to hang out with the family, right? You know it's gonna happen like that. Every time. So that's how they do every time because with Ravens, it's crazy how this off season has been. It's kind of funny too. You hear rumors though, Ravens are interested in a Jarvis Landry. Ravens are interested in a Melvin Gordon. Ravens are interested in a Bobby Wagner. You heard, and there's been more guys too, but everybody who there have been all these reports on the Ravens being interested in them, nothing happens, no deals. But then guys randomly just pop up, oh Ravens signed Marcus, oh okay, Ravens signed Morgan, oh okay, Ravens signed Brent Urban, Ravens signed Mike Davis. All these guys that they signed, they just, they popped out of nowhere. At least guys who weren't on the team before cause they signed Pat Ricard and I don't think anybody was surprised about that one. But all of the guys that they bring in that they signed, they just randomly pops up. So, for whatever the Ravens do next, I'm sure it's gonna, Kyle Fuller, that was another one too. There you go, there you go. Yeah, the Ravens, they are- I like the way they do business. I really do, I like the way they do business. Clearly there's some agent speed going on there with some of these leaks, right? But, and we get that, it's part of the business. But I think, one thing for a topic for another day is the fact that both sides in this Marquise Brown situation had to honor the, and I know you've touched on this before on the channel, both sides had to honor their commitment. And that deal does not get done on draft night, night one of the draft without, again, both sides, Ravens front office and Marquise and his camp, making sure that they hold up their ends of the bargain. And I just, you won't see that often, right? That does not happen these days, especially with how active Marquise is online. So, anyway, I was really impressed by both sides. Yeah, for sure. And in this day and age of social media is so easy. Like, I mean, we've seen what happened with Debo Samuel, even though that's gotten kind of quiet over the past like month or so. But yeah, this whole Marquise, but it could have gotten ugly with Hollywood. It could have gotten nasty. It could have gotten just really disgusting, but it didn't, it didn't. And Ravens really over these past three, four years, they have been, they've been honoring these guys' trade requests.  Like with Hayden Hurst, Orlando Brown Jr. And now Hollywood too. So, yeah, man, it's been something to see. Hopefully nobody else ends up feeling that way, but you never know how stuff goes. It's business, it's life. It is what it is. It's not a big deal. So, in closing, what do you think with this Ravens team right now, whether it be offense or defense, what do you think they need to do in order for that needle to be moved? Is it something outhouse? Is it something in-house? Do you think it's a different strategy or philosophy or do you think it's adding a guy here, what do you think the Ravens need to do to really move that needle all the way and really truly be Super Bowl contenders? Yeah, I don't think it's all that complicated. You know, I think they need a little bit of luck. I think they need a little bit of faith, right? As John Arbaugh always says, and what they really need is this modern medicine to kick in and, you know, crossing the fingers, right? That these guys have speaking of honoring commitments. That that big list last year of guys that went down, right? That that list, the overwhelming majority of that list honors their rehabs, their respective rehabs. And that they come back, that J.K. Dobbins comes back and isn't a shell of the star rookie that he was a couple of years ago. That Gus Edwards continues to come back and just fight and fight and the yards that he picks up after contact are just incredible, that that comes back to a certain extent. That on the defensive side of the ball, they get back to, yeah, the true no fly zone in Baltimore because we see all the graphics that are out there, right? I've been victim to putting those graphics together as well, right? I've put it together and on paper, what does it look like? There is a true no fly zone. But again, I think, you know, again, I don't want to think, nothing's too complicated about this thing. It's getting guys back. It's ensuring that their rehabs went well, it's easing them back, right? We probably won't see a lot of those guys in training camp. I think you're going to see, and Pat Ricard kind of alluded to this not too long ago, there's been a significant difference in the training and conditioning program. And I know you've touched on that as well and deservingly so. They needed to shift some things around. Let's be honest. I don't know if it was deserving of a true, remake and remodel from a department standpoint, but I do know that John Harbaugh said something at the end of last year and it looks like he stood by it and they were going to look at things top down, make adjustments as necessary. Whether they are necessary and will work in the long term, we don't know. But what we do know though is that he held himself and his staff accountable throughout this off season. They sure did. And you know, something that's funny, it kind of broke my heart yesterday. Somebody I forgot who it was, they posted this video and it was of one of Raven's running back drills. And they showed Justice Hill, so he gave the ball to JK Dobbins. JK was cutting quick. I was like, okay, JK is back, let's go. But then I looked at the comments and they're like, oh, this video's from two years ago. I know exactly what you're talking about because that thing was floating around recently. Yeah, because I'm like, okay, but it's all good, he'll be back eventually. But anyway, Bobby T, Bobby B, appreciate you coming through. Thank you. Just before we get out of here, give everybody a reminder one more time where they can find you at. Yeah, like I said, just a few months into starting this channel so you can find me on YouTube, just type in my name, Bobby Trossett. That's T as in Tom, R-O-S-S-E-T. And wherever else you kind of screw with on social, right? Whether it's Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, you can find me in all those different spots. And like I said, man, really appreciate you having me on. And I know I'll return the favor as well soon. And as we all kind of get ready for training camp and it's right around the corner, man. You know how summer goes. The early months are, yeah, they're slow, but you have your vacation sprinkled in there and you'll have a couple moves made here and there. And I'm sure there'll be some off the field stuff, right like we saw last week. We'll have some fun with it, but I'm looking forward to all that. So thanks again, man. Oh yeah, for sure. Appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you.


Good morning everyone. Thank you for joining us this morning. We're joined today by Nigel Cizer, the Global Director of World Resources Institutes Forest Program and the WRI team here in Indonesia. So Nigel here will demonstrate the Global Forest Watch which is an online forest monitoring and alert system. He's going to talk about how GFW can be used in Indonesia as well as worldwide and what WRI's plans are to support Indonesian stakeholders with early detection and monitoring of fires and haze during the upcoming dry season.  So as I mentioned, he's the Global Director of WRI's forest program. This includes the Global Forest Watch, the Forest Legality Alliance and the Global Restoration Initiative. Prior to WRI, Nigel served as the Vice President for Asia with Rare. He also served as the lead advisor on climate change and energy issues in Asia to form a president, Bill Clinton and the Clinton Global Initiative. And he's also worked with UNEP in Nairobi and he established the Nature Conservancy's Asia Pacific Forest Programme. So thank you very much Nigel for coming here and for the WRI Indonesia team for joining us. Thank you very much. It's a great pleasure to be here. I actually used to have an office here so it feels like coming home. When I was with the Nature Conservancy, I had an office for three years here at C4 when David Kymowitz was Director General and we did some wonderful collaboration together, particularly with Kristof Obzynski and his team. There's several of my colleagues here. I would like them to just stand up and say hello so that you know who they are. Maybe each of you could just introduce yourselves and just name and what you do very briefly. Good morning. My name is Paula Mastre. I recently joined the WRI. I was with the World Bank in Jakarta for four years with the environmental team and I'm the recently hired Indonesia Manager for the Global Forest Watch. So helping create partnerships and leading engagement with Indonesian stakeholders on the GFW and the sister websites as well. Good morning. Selamat pagi. My name is Hidayah Hamza. I work at the GIS with the WRI Indonesia just for this recent two months. Thank you. Hello, Selamat pagi. My name is Tanya Puspita-Firdausi. I'm with Hidayah as the GIS Analyst at WRI Indonesia. Thank you very much. So we actually have an evolving collaboration and partnership with C4. We were just having a meeting with your Director General. Very much hoping that that's going to deepen and expand significantly over the coming years and I think there's a good chance that will happen. We've also just joined as an implementing partner for Landscapes Day. I think we're the only NGO at that level in the organization of Landscapes Day for Lima. So close links, long historical links. I think we received one of the, when C4 was first established I was telling the team this morning when Jeff Sayer was setting things up here. We actually I think got probably the first grant that C4, at that time C4 was giving out some grants. I think we got the first grant for some work we were doing in Brazil at that time in 93, I think it was. So the connections between C4 and WRI go way, way back. For those of you who don't know, WRI is a global think tank and do tank. We've got about 500 staff now on the team and we're organized across six programs. Forests, Water, Food, Climate Change, Energy and Cities. Here in this region our most active program is the forest program. But our cities program is also becoming and our climate change program also becoming more and more engaged here as well. Here in Indonesia we have a team now of about 10 people working full time on forest issues. So what I'm going to talk about today is the Global Forest Watch initiative and how that has been evolving. I'm sure some of you have heard a little bit about it, seen some of the news coverage and so on. It's a major initiative at WRI, it's our largest effort on forests right now. It actually builds on work going back over 20 years. We launched the first Global Forest Watch in 1999 as part of something called the Forest Frontiers Initiative. And that was an effort that was very much based on reports like this. Publishing as up-to-date information as we could about what was happening to forests in key. At that time we focused on what we call the intact landscape. So Russia, the boreal, the Congo region, Indonesia, parts of the Amazon, the Guyana Shield and so on. So you can see here a sampling of some of the reports. We actually did the first interactive atlas of Indonesia's forests at that time in collaboration with the Ministry of Forestry. So this was the norm and what we were doing merrily until four or five years ago. But of course it's not good enough. This kind of information is typically several years out of date by the time it's actually published, read and policymakers are starting to look at it. If they read it and look at it at all, which I think my sense is that they increasingly do not want to look at these kinds of reports and read them. And at the same time, our friends who are in the business community, the investment community all take this kind of information completely for granted. Updated every second or almost every millisecond online. Thousands of companies, the world's economies. You can see what's happening almost instantly. It's free. It's in many languages and it's very easy to use. We all probably look at this kind of information from time to time. This is the BBC website and there are many you could choose from. So our sense, having worked on information about forests for many years, is that it's time for a new approach. That we need to get as quickly as we possibly can to near real-time, if not real-time information about what's happening to forests around the world and deliver that in a format that policymakers can use and understand almost instantly. So it's a hugely ambitious initiative, but that's what set the heart of Global Forest Watch. As you know here better than anybody, there is a huge amount of information about forests. There are all kinds of studies and data sets being produced constantly. Of course there are still some very big gaps, but most of that information does not find its way to those who need to be using it. So the basic mission of Global Forest Watch, the initiative, is to take that wealth of information and the complexity therein and make it as simple and accessible for policymakers and policy relevant as possible, whether they're in government, NGOs, business, communities, wherever they may be. And of course the good news here is that the technology now enables us to get much closer to realizing that vision. When we started this 15, 20 years ago, Landsat data was not available for free. You had to buy it from the USGS and it was very, very expensive. Almost no one was doing anything with Landsat data at that time. Now it's all freely available, the entire archive, let alone all the other systems. Cloud computing enables us to take terabytes and terabytes of data and run parallel processing and sophisticated algorithms with those huge data sets and come up with answers to some key questions or at least get closer to those answers. And people are used to sharing this kind of information with social media and online in various ways that we would never have imagined even three or four years ago, let alone 15 years ago. So a partnership of about 40 organizations has come together over the last two and a half years to create Global Forest Watch. And what you have here is, I mean you've got UN agencies, UNEP FAO is also a collaborator now, some very key technology providers, Google, Esri, Planet Labs who are high resolution satellite imagery, Janix who are processors of high resolution imagery in Russia, donors, Norway, USAID, the Dutch, the British, the GEF, and then various NGOs who have expertise on this around the world together with some key practitioners in different regions around the world. There's a number of other groups, not on this slide that are also involved, but these are sort of the key groups. And they've come together to create Global Forest Watch which we launched as you may know in February this year. This is the home page. And what I'm going to do now is I'm going to switch to a video, which is a five minute video, which just takes an animated walk through some of what's on the Global Forest Watch system. And I'll talk while that plays. It basically stops me talking too much because I have to keep up with the video. And then we'll come back to a few slides talking about what's going to happen next. So let's start the video here, the full screen. So here you have the home page, which is where we just were. And you click on here or on the map here and it opens up. This is meant to be a very simple and intuitive system. The resolution on the screen here isn't great, so you're not going to be able to appreciate this. But you've got a set of pull down menus. You can click on those tabs. There's information about what's in the data set for each of those tabs. So this is forest cover change. And what's selected here right now is the UMD Google data set of global tree cover change. There's near real-time, former, all the world's fires from the NASA Active Fires MODIS system. There's forest cover layers, forest use, logging, palm oil, plantations and so on. All of the world's protected areas from the WPDA database. The people layer, we're adding data on traditional and indigenous land into the system right now. And there's a news tab. We'll come back to that in a moment. So zooming in here right now into the western Amazon, what's up on the screen here right now is the Google UMD high resolution global data set that was published in Science last year. So they're core partners with us. And we've pulled up one of the protected areas here. This is the Surui indigenous area. And the pink areas are tree cover loss year by year. And you click on the time slider and the tree cover loss comes up year by year from the Google Hansen data set. This is 30 meter global resolution, a very, very powerful data set. Obviously some significant limitations as well with that, which we can talk about. We can change the backgrounds by clicking on here. So this is bringing up a satellite, a composite satellite image background. In some places it's very high resolution like this. This is actually some digital globe imagery that's within the Google database. So depending where you are in the world, switching to the satellite view, you actually can pick up an awful lot of context at surprising resolutions on what's going on. So zooming back out, you've got the zoom buttons over here. It's just like using a Google map, coming over to Indonesia. And we'll pull up some of the other data sets in the system. So from the forest use tab, here are the palm oil concessions for Indonesia. This is Ministry of Forestry data. Obviously limitations with that, but it's the best that's publicly available. Click on any of those and the name of the company and some basic information about the concession come up. And now we've turned on the near real-time former alerts, which are modus based at 250 meter resolution, updated month by month. And you can move the time slider around here to look at whichever time period you're interested in. So again this is tree cover change month by month at medium resolution. So zooming in here and you can see there's a protected area, palm oil concession, interesting patterns of tree cover change here, of tree cover loss. And this is now being very actively used in the industry and I'll talk more about that in a minute. Switching to the other layer, you can actually see clearly here is the area that's been cleared for the palm oil license. So those are all automated algorithms that are generating automated updates running on the Google Earth Engine cloud every month. So zooming out, the last place we'll go to is Ivory Coast and the protected area here. And with the protected areas database and the tree cover loss and gain information you can start to see some extraordinary dynamics around protected areas. This is Kijimpan's e-habitat which seems to have been virtually lost. You can see exactly when that happened, how that coincides with local political dynamics of course which have been dramatic in Ivory Coast. But then you have other protected areas which seem to have fared much better. By clicking up here we can draw on the map and on the fly it will give us an analysis for the polygon that we draw, how much was lost, how much was gained over that particular time period. So it's an analytic tool as well and you can subscribe to alerts for that area by typing in your email and it'll email you an update on what's happening to that area as new data becomes available. So that's some of the basic tree cover change data and how that can be overlaid with other data sets. The flip side of the system is the bottom up piece. So this is displaying stories that people have uploaded into the system. So there's a crowdsourcing component here which allows you to submit your own story. You go to the stories tab, you can bring up the various stories that people have submitted and you click here which says submit your own story and type in a title, you can browse around on the map here, zoom in, drop a pin anywhere on that map and then you can put in where and what happened, the dates and add multimedia and other information to that and that will be seen instantly. I think most important for you here is that all the data sets in here can also be downloaded directly from Global Forest Watch. So we are designing this, this is designed for the general non-technical user but then in the background there's also all the technical stuff. So you can actually download all of these data sets in various formats and feed them into your research program here as well. So that's the end of the video.  So we launched this in February in Washington D.C. and we've been quite taken aback by the level of interest, roughly about ten times the level of interest that we were targeting. Literally within a couple of days about 200,000 people around the world had gone in and looked at the system. I think we're getting up to nearly a thousand media stories now. On the social media side, within the first week, we reached 15 million people through the tweeting and retweeting and Facebooking and all of that stuff. And globally the pattern of users is quite... Well, we were happy to see how dispersed the use of the system has been. I remember it works across several languages, so it's there in Mandarin, Bahasa Indonesia, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic. So this is from Google Analytics here, which is amazing if you've never played with Google Analytics with a website, but it shows us that the U.S. has had nearly 100,000 users. But then across the world we're seeing nearly everywhere else people have been looking at it with the exception of Western Sahara and North Korea, over 200 countries and territories. I took this screenshot yesterday, but the map already was pretty colorful within the first few days. But as of yesterday, it's interesting to see who's in the top 15 here and how many people have been looking at this, compared with the kind of reach we would have with the normal kind of communications where we would do. So Russia is up there with 30,000 unique... 30,000 sessions, so about two-thirds of these would be unique visitors. And then you've got France, China's coming very high up on the list. Brazil, nearly 20,000. Indonesia's number 15 at 7,000. So this is... we were very happy to see this, happy to see people in countries where forests are a very big deal, paying attention to the system and starting to use it. We've now got about a... the current return rate of current users is about 40%. So people are coming back into the system, and they're staying in the system now for five or six minutes on average, whereas around the launch, the return rate was about 5%, with an average period of use for about two minutes. So we're starting to see use consolidate and deepen. So that's where we are right now, and I'm sure you've got some questions about that, but I quickly want to talk about where we're going next. So this is a very active ongoing program, and major investments are going to be made for several years to come to continue to expand the program. So the first area of development is country data. Right now in the system, you can select a country, and you can pull up some basic information about that country, quite a lot of which we draw from the FAO, Forest Resources Assessment. We want to tailor each country's piece of this much, much more to the priorities and interests in those countries. So most people coming into this are interested in that country. We want to give them what they're looking for for that country. That's a huge, huge amount of work, but a very high priority. And then across the system is developing more specialized apps for more specialized user groups. And the one that's first out of the box that was launched in beta version about a month ago is Global Forest Watch Commodities. We've been quite amazed at the level of corporate interest in this system, particularly from palm oil industry related companies, particularly consumer goods companies and major trading companies, folks like Unilever, Nestle, Wilmar, Golden Agri Resources, and then the broader Roundtable and Sustainable Palm Oil process. Our team here has been very active on palm oil issues for several years, and we're very active members of the RSPO. And so we've teamed up with RSPO and the other partners in Global Forest Watch to experiment with Global Forest Watch Commodities, which aims to take the information in Global Forest Watch, then add commodity-specific data sets to allow companies to start to make progress in addressing the traceability and transparency challenges that they face. As some of you know, they've made commitments to what they call deforestation-free palm oil and pulp and paper and so on without defining any of those terms. And I would say, broadly still, without having defined those terms a year or so later. So we're aiming to help them address those challenges here again and the partners here. So this time you've got RSPO added into the mix. Here's a few screenshots from Global Forest Watch Commodities. So this is more specific to this region right now on palm oil. It will expand for soy and beef and so on with Latin America becoming very involved. But you've got land cover and land use data added into the system over lane with tree cover loss. And you've got the RSPO member concession data. So if you're an RSPO member, company, you have committed to share your concession maps publicly, which is actually very precedent-setting. As you may know, the quality of concession maps available from the government here right now is variable. And so the companies actually have the most detailed and accurate maps and they are now forced to share them through a resolution that they actually signed onto at RSPO. And they're using Global Forest Watch Commodities as the place to disclose that information voluntarily. So this is what's in there right now. Each of these is an RSPO oil palm concession. These are the certified ones. And by November, all of the member's concessions will be in here a lot more than you can see here right now. So if you are sourcing from the SIPEV group, you can pull up the SIPEV group's group-level company data in Global Forest Watch Commodities and see what the various overlays are telling us about tree cover loss, what land uses those are over, how many fires there are currently in their areas, and other useful information. You can also look at it at the PT level, at the company level, rather than the group level for a more detailed look. And you can overlay this in various ways, so for fire monitoring and so on. So we are in this partnership now with these companies who don't provide any financial support. What they're providing is their expertise to help us understand how can the information that we have or information that we don't have back could potentially be generated with further investment. How can that inform their supply chain management decisions as they shift to what they call deforestation-free commodities? The second example is Global Forest Watch Fires. This is going to be hopefully launched next week in Jakarta. We've been working very fast on this just literally over the last month. Because of the fires issues here, as you know, some of you know we did a lot of work on that over the last year. Some of it, working quite closely with David Gavo here as well at C4 to basically publish very simple GIS analyses, overlaying fire alerts with concessions and protected areas and so on. Very controversial. And it generated a great deal of discussion amongst the companies and the governments and the enforcement agencies and so on. So we're now taking that and adding some additional information to it and creating a tailored fires version of Global Forest Watch. I'll just show you a few screenshots from that. This is actually the current Global Forest Watch, the general system which has fire alerts from the last week, the last three days, the last two days and the last day. So that's what's on the general system right now that's been out there since February. The more specialized system looks like this. So it's a similar configuration here, but you can also select only high confidence fires by clicking here. We're adding the NOAA fires data. And the maps is focused on this region. It comes up with the peat layer on it as well, which is not on the general map. And then you can click on any of these and bring up other fire-relevant information. So here are the wood fiber plantations, for example. So quite similar to the general system, but with some added bells and whistles. If you click on here, then you get an automatic summary analysis and figures of the fires over the past seven days. So this is analysis that we were periodically publishing and producing manually. So it now automated this. So it's updated every day on the system for everyone to see. There are about seven different figures like this, which... Ooh, I keep pushing the wrong button. Hold on. Which... So this is which districts have the highest number of alerts over the last seven days. I mean, here we're really hammering home the message that fire work in Indonesia needs to be concentrated in this area. Riau is half of the alerts, and three or four districts and sub-districts are where nearly all of those alerts are. That seems to have gotten through into the policymaker process, policymaking process, and various ways of presenting that information. Very, very simple and easy to understand for those who are working on this. We're also adding some very attractive graphics. This is actually on the system. This actually is an animated map of winds and wind speed. And you can see, particularly here, the patterns of wind and so on moving over Sumatra. So you can see, for example, here, that Singapore was getting wind coming up from the south. I looked at it yesterday, and actually the wind was coming that way. So you can see in real time this is updated every four hours. So these are useful tools for the situation room and real-time response from policymakers who are trying to figure out what's going on on the ground. There's also a Twitter conversations tab, which brings up any Twitter conversations, and you can see those automatically that refer to any specific hashtags related to the fires in English or Bahasa Indonesia. When the fires get serious, there's a massive amount of activity on Twitter about that, particularly here in Indonesia. So we're putting all that together, and this is going to be launched hopefully next Wednesday in Jakarta with BP Red and some involvement from some other ministries as well, hopefully including Ministry of Forestry. And you're all invited. We'll send the details over as soon as they're finalized in the next day or two. The system also includes an effort to increase the response time of the government. So we take the fire alerts. We prioritize them based on the data about each alert that's in the system and automatically can send SMSs out to the Kapaladesa, the Chamats, the Bupatis, the Mangala Agni, the various firefighting response crews and so on the ground. So we've put that together. We're now in discussion with the government about how they want to roll out an automated SMS communication process, which I believe would cut the fire response time by some agencies from about 35 to 40 hours, which is almost useless, of course, to something more like four or five hours for alerts coming into Jakarta and then communicated with orders to fight fires on the field. So that's quite a simple set of technologies that we can put together to do that. So that's already up and running. We're waiting for the government to look at how they want to integrate that into their management systems. And we will roll it out ourselves directly with some of the companies and so on, probably with the alerts coming directly from our system in the U.S. This is an example of a sample SMS alert that you might receive overnight with the long of a fire and so on. And we can obviously tailor those to say whatever would be most helpful. We're working with Google Earth Engine to look at how we can add information about how to access that particular fire and what water sources there might be nearby and automate that as well. So that's where some of the big data map stuff can potentially come into play for very rapid response across very, well, basically across the whole world potentially, but certainly across an area the scale of real at very low cost. The other piece, the final piece I'll talk about here, is beginning to work with ultra-high-resolution satellite data. This is extremely challenging because of the size of the files, because of the cost traditionally of this data, and we're just not used to handling this type of information, and most researchers are not, because it's usually the provenance of private companies and intelligence agencies. So we have a partnership, a new partnership with Digital Globe who owned four ultra-high-resolution satellites over Indonesia twice a day.  I'll show you what they look like in a second. The interesting thing about this partnership is that we've been able to bring down the cost to a level that we can afford, that's not still not cheap. And more importantly, the licensing arrangement we have allows us to share these at full resolution with you, with the government, with universities, with anyone who's working on these issues. So we're going to make all of this freely available. So David Gavo and his team and others here will hopefully be able to take this imagery and do some important research with this. So we have basically a perpetual license that allows us to share it with anyone who's working on these issues. And I think that's the first time that's happened. So here is what you see on the digital globe interface. They've captured this image, and you zoom in, and they've put it in false color here. Basically, you can start to see here at zoom level 13 an area that's burned and an active fire and smoke plumes. You can see which way the wind's blowing, and you can see precisely where the fires are burning. But we can go much better than that. So we can do them into 15, 16, zoom level 17 here, 18. And here you can start to see it's not so good on the screen. There you go. So this is the maximum zoom level, although this isn't full resolution because of the file size and the screen here, right?  And we also have access to their archive so we can start to try to see the history of land use in each of these areas. So this is hopefully a boon for speeding up some of the research on the dynamics around the fires and could have interesting applications in the law enforcement process because you've got a precise time stamp and a precise lat long for every point on these images. So this is already being made available to the government on a day-to-day basis as we collect it. Oh, sorry, one more zoom level there. Another image there. This is more real color. So you see here active fires, an area that's burned, again in a landscape of palm oil and scrub. And if you know the context on the ground as well or you go out there and look, you can learn a lot from this. And then we can render them in this type of format. So here's the fire, here's the scar, we locate the scar for the policy makers precisely on the map, provide them with this information and then it's over to law enforcement to go out and see whether that's helpful. Coming soon, we're working very actively right now with the Woods Hole Research Center at the University of Maryland on a global carbon flux and carbon stock layer for the maps at 30 meter resolution. We'll be launching the tropical piece of that at the Lima COP, so we may well include presentations on that at Landscapes Day. And the global, the full global coverage of that will be launched at the Paris COP next year. Global Forest Watch Biodiversity with Eric Dynastine who used to be at WWF, the WWF Chief Scientist in DC as one of the leading global experts on patterns of biodiversity and biodiversity data sets around the world. So he's now part of our team and we're designing and developing Global Forest Watch Biodiversity to take the biodiversity data sets and present those in a way that support improved decision making around infrastructure investment, link it in with the fire stuff, and so on as well. Go, no go zones for the commodities industry, for example. Terra Eye, which some of you may know was developed by SEAT, I think I mentioned that earlier, did I talk about Terra Eye at the beginning? No. So Terra Eye, SEAT Columbia have developed a wonderful near real-time alert system for vegetation change, not just forests, that we're now integrating into Global Forest Watch and we're funding them to take that to the pan-tropical scale and increase the frequency of updates through a major partnership with SEAT and the CG system. And I also showed you some, I just showed you some of the high-resolution work, so I think learning from our experience here with Digital Globe as that develops, we want to potentially apply that to many, many other problems around the world, such as detection of illegal logging across the Congo. Several governments there have indicated their interest in us supporting their efforts to enhance enforcement around detection of illegal logging roads, snaking out of concessions and cutting blocks and so on into areas where they shouldn't be. The high-resolution information allows us to do that kind of thing. It's not just tropical, it's global, we've actually got a piece coming out, maybe today on our website on the Tarsans and Canada and the Excel pipeline, which is a huge, huge story in North America, the biggest environmental story ever just about in North America, I think. Looking at deforestation, forest conversion linked to Tarsans' development in Canada's very special boreal forest, basically about 2 million acres of boreal forest has been cleared over the last few years. I can't remember the time period since 2000, I think, for Tarsans' oil development and some of its very precious caribou habitat and so on. So more and more work of that kind. I'll stop there, take some questions. There are lots of challenges and constraints and shortcomings with this work as well that we are quite familiar with and very interested to get your perspective on those. And we look forward to much more collaboration on this with C4 in the months and years ahead. Thank you. Thanks, Nigel. Does anyone have any questions? Can I ask people to stand up and state their name and nature of their research? Thank you, Nigel, with you. It's a very, very excellent presentation. Perhaps this is a great effort, really, that maybe scientists can take a lot of benefits from the existing database or information like this. Perhaps also important to have a real clear data dictionary. Data dictionary, because, for instance, the definition of forest is not necessary all people talk the same thing when we talk about forest. Inside the country also the different definitions for different countries. For instance, Malaysia defined forest quite differently from how Indonesia defined forest. I'm wondering how this kind of global database, if you want to say, accommodate different kind of definition of forest. To me it's like to have a clear and strong data dictionary is very, very important in this database. The second one is talking about the update because this also covers the dynamic of the data. It's very nice about the fire. But sometimes the dynamic of the data is also about the government. I mean, sometimes, for instance, government already cancelled this concession. It's no longer exist. You talk about the data, but actually government already, for instance, cancelled this concession. I don't know how often you actually update this kind of data. It's very, very challenging this kind of dynamic. Thank you. Thank you, Paheri. Paheri and I did a wonderful panel. When was that? It seems like a long time ago. I think it was last week in Jakarta on the fires at the Jakarta Forest Correspondents Club. And that was a great discussion there. In terms of the data and the definitions, of course, this is a huge issue. I think Ken McDickin at FAO, who used to be here a long time ago, likes to say he's cataloged something like 2000 or 3000 different definitions of forest and what forest means. So this is a huge issue. A couple of things. We're very, very transparent about what definitions we're using and how the systems are derived. So you click on the info bubbles, or go to the data page, and it takes you right back to the original citations and summaries of that research. So people can see if they want to what it is that we're working with here in great detail, and then work with the data directly themselves. So we aim to be very, very transparent about what we are using. There is a modification to the system which is in the process of being coded right now. I don't know if, Paul, you know when that's coming into effect that allows you to change the definition of forest in Global Forest Watch and that will change the analysis and what you're seeing on the screen. So we're able to adjust whether we define forest as 10% tree cover, 25% tree cover, 50%, 70%, 75%, something like that. So there's basically, like on an iPhone, you can change the settings with little sliders. We'll have a default setting which corresponds to the FAO for our definition of 10%. But if you know a lot about this and you want to start fiddling with the settings on the system, you can go in and start to do that and see how that changes the results. So that's, it's very constrained by what's in the data and the resolution of the data and how far we can go with that. But as time goes by, we'll be able to do more and more of that. So that hopefully allows more people to work with the system with a definition that's closer or closest to what they're currently working with. In terms of updates, the concession data here in Indonesia is of course extremely challenging and we're getting into that in quite astonishing detail with the government right now with various agencies as they recognize the value of putting this together with the data sets that they have, many of which are not yet public. And yes, the situation is very, very challenging. On the fires, we're starting to dig in deeper at certain parts, certain places on the map where there are repeated and very serious fires. So who is actually there on the ground? Which company is it? Is it Palmwell? Is it Polkwood? We're seeing areas that were on our map as Polkwood are actually clearly Palmwell. We can start to see that with the high resolution imagery as well. The maps in the Ministry of Forestry versus in the province are completely contradictory even on the basic type of licenses that are issued for some of these very significant areas where there are fires and a lot of conflict on the ground. So we're figuring out how to deal with that. For now, we'd like to continue to use the national government's published databases but are aware that there are some serious inaccuracies with that as they themselves have said. We may try to move towards showing the various different databases as we get access to those so that people can also see that this is very problematic and that will then create more impetus for resolution of these discrepancies by the government. And as you know, there are people in the government working very hard to try to resolve those discrepancies right now. So the more resources and the more support that they can get broadly, the more rapidly that work will advance. Hey, Nigel, thanks very much. Very enlightening talk. I just wonder whether you've been here for a long time and been working on this issue for a number of years. What would be new in this kind of exercise, especially on the approach? People keep on talking about bottom-up, bottom-up and then forget about top-down, which is still important. Is there anything new that we can really push this approach? As we are talking here, fire is raging somewhere else and a lot of new institution is in place and what would be the appropriate entry point to deliver this kind of information? Talking about Indonesia specifically. That's a tough question. I'd be interested in your answer to that more than mine. What's new here? So trying to get closer and closer to real-time, policy makers, particularly very high-level policy makers, ministerial level, they need to know what's going on. They need to know what's going on now. They're making decisions on the fly, very big decisions, and they're very constrained by poor information about what's happening out there on the ground. So the message we get from them is the more precision you can bring to this, obviously, the better. But the closer you can get to real-time, the value of that, the message is almost that sort of exponentially increasing value the closer we get to real-time. Data that's several years out of date by the time it's been published and peer-reviewed obviously has a value for long-term policy making, but not responding to the kinds of rates of change and dynamics that we see on the ground in Indonesia right now. So what's been the impact of the moratorium up to a month ago? That's what policy makers in Jakarta want to understand. Where and why are there so many fires again in early June? Why are they in the same places as they were in February and last June? And who actually is responsible on the ground for that? What is the response of the various agencies that are trying to respond to those fires in practice on the ground? Policy makers in Jakarta do not have that information to hand right now. So giving them up-to-date information that's closely tailored to what they need and what they understand is extremely important. In the business community, the confusion, the level of confusion right now is high. If any of you who are working on palm oil and the corporate standards around palm oil would know that you've got RSPO, ISPO, the Malaysian's involving standards, on the production side, RSPO+, and then on the consuming side, you've got the consumer goods forum, all the big consuming companies globally who buy this stuff saying, we want deforestation free palm oil. What does any of that mean and where is that going? And is that informed by any good information and data again? And they want that in near real time because they're making buying decisions. They're involved in business transactions day-to-day across literally a company like Unilever literally is sourcing from 6 or 700 palm oil mills across Indonesia and Malaysia day-to-day through Wilmar and Cargill and suppliers like that. And they want to shift those patterns of buying to areas where forests are being managed better rather than worse. So there's a very, very direct demand from extremely powerful and resourced stakeholders who can make changes very quickly but they do not have the information they need to do that. So we are racing to pull together the existing data sets and new data sets and task satellite systems and so on to see if we can start to answer those questions in a way that would inform those buying decisions and then further upstream inform the investment and banking decisions and the equity investment decisions that are being made around the world. So very direct impacts on Indonesia very direct market signals from Indonesia if that can be done effectively. But it's obviously extremely challenging but I think the only way we can do that is through these kinds of tools and systems and then we have to combine that with information from the field. So the crowdsourcing side of this is the other piece of the technology which I just barely touched upon. Indonesia has tremendously high cell phone and even smartphone penetration, even in rural areas. How can that be used to gather feedback from the field including the things that we can never see from space like labour violations, child labour, slave labour, bonded labour and so on which these companies are equally committed to eliminating from their supply chains. Clearly it's possible in theory to start to do that so we're looking at those aspects as well but that's what we need to try to bring together here and I think what we see in the evolution of the technology is that this will get easier and easier over the next two to three years and then the tremendously interesting part of this is what do the institutions here then do in response to the opportunity to use this information to make better decisions. That's where, that's where, that's your bed. Hi Nigel, nice to see you. I'm Celine, I'm an intern here with Kristoff working on palm oil and I was curious about the response of neighbouring country governments such as in Malaysia and Singapore and what has been their response and their desire to be part of this, thank you. Celine is from Singapore, right? Yeah. Well, the Singaporean response is the most interesting and the most active. Malaysia's response is also very interesting, I think. They're very different from each other. In the context of ASEAN the five governments that work together on the haze have biannual meetings and we've been party to some of those discussions sort of up close because of the work we've been doing on this. The significant development there last year was Singapore pushing the five governments to commit to share more accurate concession data with each other. Malaysia and Indonesia but Malaysia actually more than Indonesia I think are very strongly opposed to doing that publicly although Indonesia actually already has published a lot of information publicly to their credit Malaysia has not at all I don't think. So there's an interesting discussion going on about transparency. Those in other countries those in Singapore suffering from the haze want to know who's responsible on the ground so they've been pushing that piece of this on the transparency which obviously would be very helpful we're pushing that very strongly as well not primarily for the reasons Singaporeans are but because we believe that simply having more accurate information of this kind in the public realm is key for coordination of across agencies from the federal to the local level with Indonesian civil society with research institutes like C4 who want to do more detailed work on this and there are many in the government here who are sympathetic to that. The other piece of the response more clearly from Singapore is the New Transboundary Haze Pollution Bill which had its first or second reading in the Singaporean Parliament last week I think very recently which now imposes actually much higher penalties than the first version of the bill did several million dollars potentially and finds for companies who Singapore finds guilty in court in Singapore of generating haze which harms Singapore so they can take Singaporean based companies to court they can also take Indonesian companies to court this haze also coming down quite a bit from Peninsula Malaysia that affects Singapore as well depending on the wind perhaps most striking in the legislation though is it also allows for civil cases to be brought there are criminal cases but then there are civil cases so Celine as a Singaporean citizen could herself bring a case against a company that is polluting the air she is breathing in Singapore or hypothetical example a hotel owned by her sister or the national airline or any company like that could bring a civil case against companies that affect them and we saw last June very dramatic effects and the most dramatic effects on the Indonesian economy right 2 billion dollars in impacts more or less is estimated possibly hundreds of millions of dollars in impacts on the Singaporean economy as well due to fewer tourists conventions being cancelled and so on the situation on the ground there was extremely serious even more so in real but so Singapore is basically in my opinion in a very tough situation on this and is doing whatever they possibly can to try to bring pressure to bear on the situation they are also very active behind the scenes through diplomatic channels but the diplomatic relationship between Singapore and Indonesia is extremely complex as you all know so it is not clear that there is very much progress being made there Singapore has offered funding and so on for work on the ground how much funding would potentially available is very unclear on the one hand and Indonesia I don't think is particularly enthusiastic about more Singaporean funding to do work related to the fires on the ground there has been an ongoing effort in Jambi with Singapore research funding maybe C4 has been involved I'm not sure on these issues so that's kind of where it stands I can say right now that Singapore is extremely extraordinarily nervous about a repeat or an even worse haze crisis than the one that happened last June because of the high likelihood that we'll have an El Nino extended dry season and worse fires this year than last year and they and then it's just a question of wind direction it's really just a question of wind direction of how hard they hit in Singapore but as we always say the real issue is here on the ground in Indonesia where many more people are suffering and paying a much higher price for this than the Singaporeans but it's bad enough there I don't know if that answers the question Sleen is there anything else you are curious about there involved in our IGFW we are we are in we have a very good discussion going on with the Singaporean government about this they're very very interested in the work that we're doing I'll be so whenever I go through Singapore now it always involves meetings with the Ministry of Environment the National Environment Agency and other agencies there to update them on our work which is all publicly available as well they have some quite good technical capabilities there as well with their various research institutes so they've also been able to enlighten us on some of their research findings which generally don't seem to be made public and some of the modelling and haze projection work that they've been doing they have an interesting partnership with the IBM co-laboratory on haze modelling and haze projection they've been doing some really impressive work at the Singapore Management University on analysis of Twitter and Twitter sentiment including related to the fires as well as in Singapore on the ground in Singapore they're monitoring about 300,000 Singaporean and Indonesian Twitter accounts to help monitor what's happening to fires to try to give them more real-time information so we're very intrigued by how that can help inform a real-time response to the situation on the ground because people are tweeting as it's happening the last thing I'll say on that is for example we have no air quality data at all from Sumatra none is collected I don't think any is collected if it is none of it's made public but we have very extensive air quality data from the Peninsula, Malaysia and Singapore so that's all going to be on global forest watch fires could Twitter and monitoring Twitter actually be a proxy for air quality monitoring is something that is an interesting piece it's not as good but it will tell you that there is haze that you can hear right now as people are tweeting about it in various ways it would be the only source of that information other than what we might gather with remote sensing Hi Nigel, I'm Grace Wong with the livelihoods program my question relates to kind of the data that you have I mean this is a tremendous effort and a great resource but a lot of the data that you have are data that's designed to be mapped so you have forests the concessions, the protected areas but there is a whole slew of data that's really critical to forests that are not easy so things like tenure things like the adat thing forests and that's vague and uncertain and as this resource becomes used for decision making and you have a suitability mapper there on your commodities website I wonder how you see those risks and what might be some ways to kind of manage these types of risks that's a brilliant question there is a tab on Global Forest Works called the people tab and we are in the process of adding data to that tab right now so the first edition was made a couple of months ago when we added the first local people's tenure data to that which is community managed forests for Cameroon which we happen to have because we've been working on mapping in Cameroon for 15 years the government and NGOs and others there so if you go into Global Forest Works and you click on the people tab and you pull up that and go to Cameroon you'll see the first data set on Global Forest Watch for that on July the 24th we and Rights and Resources International Andy Whites Group will be publishing a report on global mapping of traditional, tenure indigenous peoples lands mapping and so on and to coincide with that report we'll be adding we'll be adding a bunch more tenure and traditional peoples maps and data layers to this forest Australia, Canada Australia, Canada Brazil, Guyana, DRC Liberia and a couple of others I can't read my handwriting so that's coming up on July 24th we're in discussion with Aman about adding their data set here in Indonesia which is a very interesting data set and I think that will happen eventually but as you say this is extremely complex and sensitive first of all those groups may not want that information to be published because it's useful in negotiations so how you actually visualize that the boundaries of those areas is a challenge if it's there are indigenous territories in Brazil with very clear and well defined boundaries by the government so that's easy to put up it's already out there and so we're in the process of adding that for countries like Colombia and so on you've got a Hido maps for Mexico and stuff like that but when you get to a place like Indonesia where there's tremendous conflict over where these lands begin and where they end and which particular rights are associated with which pieces of those landscapes the visualization of that is a huge challenge so we're basically looking for very creative ways to address those problems such as showing the boundaries as rather indistinct regions on the map that don't disclose exactly where that area is but make it very clear for example to a foreign investor or a company like Unilever that might have palm oil mills near there that are supplying it as deforestation is moving into that area make it very clear to them that there are people here who broadly claim this area as theirs and are in conflict with these companies that are your suppliers so in the commodities space this gets very very interesting and the companies are very keen to see that type of information and be able to work with it because the risks associated with that for them as investors are huge in terms of brand and reputation so this is a very high priority for us and we're moving through it as fast as we can but there are additional complexities and then of course there's stuff that simply there's not data available for what's very inspiring is the extraordinary I think expansion of participatory mapping efforts going on around the world so those databases are growing rapidly and so we're committed to having that up here in a format that's useful that respects the the opinions and demands of those communities completely and makes that as transparent as possible for everyone to see it and doing that as fast as we possibly can that's where we are right now on that if you have any suggestions or input we would be very happy to hear them sorry just a quick my name's Annie postdoc here at Seafall we'll hear a bit more about the bottom up approach that you have do you filter the stories that come through and can you distinguish between the different sources and do you set scientific articles I mean is there a way to to get to the sources and distinguish between that so the crowd sourcing piece of this is very rudimentary right now what we did what we decided to do was simply create a crowd sourcing function in the system and then see what happened we had no idea what would happen and the reality is that actually there's been very little use of that very few people compared with hundreds of thousands of people who have gone in and looked at what's on the system almost nobody has uploaded their own information you can go in and upload anything you want so if you've done a research paper at this protected area in Sulawesi you could go in and drop a pin touch that and everyone going in and looking at Sulawesi would see that research paper no one's doing that if you are APP and you want to push back or push back on accusations being made against your company you could go in and put that information in the system but they're not doing that so we're very intrigued by why there hasn't been more uptake of this and we've got several colleagues who are working hard to understand that learn from the best out there on crowd sourcing to see what the next generation of this should look like for Global Forest Watch in terms of the curation of what comes in from the crowd sourcing right now if you upload something it's instantly accessible on the site we'll remove the standard languages we'll remove anything that's inappropriate or abusive but we haven't had to do that yet so basically anything we go up it's very clearly identified as not endorsed by us or our partners it's there as crowd sourced materials so take it or leave it if you're looking at that on the system so that's kind of where we are right now I think perhaps as we get into more specialized applications of Global Forest Watch with much more intense engagement with specific user groups for example around palm oil and slave labor then you might get into a much much more interesting and much more active dynamic with these kinds of tools looking at where you've got potentially some real incentives for people to want to share that information I've been using a lot the state of the forest for my work and usually the public figure in that report is kind of different from the official government figures and especially for example the impact of the fires in 1998 and it's always an analysis in that report that claims that the government like covering up the actual incidents of area that affected by fire or any other public figures and you mentioned earlier that you will be closely working now with the government so do you think that would change? I mean now your figure, public figure would be more likely similar to the government official figures I need your opinion on this and the second one would be possible to analyze to analyze the forest cover resulted from rehabilitations or any other in our restorations activities because the government Indonesia for example has spent a lot of money in this and to analyze effectiveness has been so difficult because we have a lack of this actual forest cover that actually increase from that effort so would be able to analyze from that and my last questions do you think that Indonesia has been successfully reducing its emissions because we have a lot of government 26 or 41% Great questions and I'll start with the restoration one because we haven't talked about that yet so we have a sister initiative to global forest watch at WRI called the global restoration initiative we're very active on that it's a whole new area of work for us that we're investing a great deal in and many others are moving into that area as well we've been in some discussions with the Indonesian countries on that and global forest watch is the tool that we aim to use to measure success of restoration the challenge is the resolution of the data sets and so on the resolution of the data the satellite data for doing that so picking up early stage restoration early stage growth regrowth is difficult because it's not, it's very sparse it's hard to distinguish from pasture crop and picking up fine scale like riparian restoration or agroforestry system is difficult as well sometimes difficult to distinguish from other land uses so those are technical questions that we are very actively working on and the higher resolution data and combinations of high and medium resolution data could help us greatly to achieve advances in that area what's on the system right now is from the from the Matt Hansen Google data set I showed the pink of tree cover loss you can click on another button and you get a blue which is tree cover gain what you see very clearly across Sumatra there is expanding plantations you see the blue of the plantations big square blocks of blue coming up very dramatically across that landscape very nicely we also detect restoration of larger areas as they mature but won't as I said won't pick up the early stages of restoration so on so there is a technical remote sensing challenge there related to the confusion with other land uses and the resolution of the data that you require and the cost of handling those higher resolution data sets I expect to see there are advances in the technology over the next two to three five years that should solve that problem I would say somewhat boldly but based on what we know is going on in the industry basically we expect to have near daily very high resolution data available and you wouldn't need to look at that across the whole world every day of course once every year once every couple of years you could do a systematic analysis or in certainly the landscape level with that kind of data it's very very useful we're already talking with some of the companies here who are as you know well one company in particular that's committed to large-scale restoration efforts around their plantations and how can they monitor and report on success with that in a credible way is a question that they're asking us in terms of the fire data and discrepancies in what our analysis and your analysis and the government's analysis might say clearly there are methodological differences there and there are political interests as well one thing we did last year that was very helpful we thought at least for us in understanding and validating the medium resolution alerts the alerts that come up on Global Forest Watch are actually at one kilometer resolution from the MODIS system derived from MODIS by NASA many people said they're not accurate you're saying we've got all these that's not true so we tested that with rapid eye data we spent nearly $100,000 buying rapid eye 5 meter data post facto and did a fire scars analysis and C4 has that data we gave it to C4 as well to David here and that showed 97% accuracy of the MODIS data so we were very happy to see that we published that also in those maps along on our blog and now we've moved up to the 50 centimeter resolution data even finer scale so for specific areas where you've got really serious issues you can do you'll be able to do an incredibly precise fire scar analysis to the tree I mean this tree burned that one didn't this was the precise boundary and with the archive depending what's there from Digital Globe you'll be able to see a lot of the history of fire in that place as well potentially so that will help basically our approach is everything that we're doing on this is made public it's published if others want to challenge the results they need to publish their material and their methods and then we can have a scientific discussion about that if they want to challenge it without doing that it's not a very useful discussion and on the emissions I don't think I've got much to say about that I think there are others here who know much more about that than I do it will be the work we're now we're now doing with the carbon flex and carbon stock at high resolution of course will help inform that and we look forward to working very very closely with the MRV team here at BP Red the team that's just been set up under Ibu Hade to see how what we're doing globally on that could be taken to even higher resolutions here and inform policymaking and public opinion and media work on this here in Indonesia okay thank you unfortunately we've run out of time so I think we're going to have to end there but thank you for your interest and thank you Nigel and WRO