has a new play that ArtsEmerson is going to premiere in October called Mala and we announced that on Monday night at our season preview and so it just both shows happen to be by incredibly talented women and are about family and home and Cuba and being daughters of immigrant parents. So anyway I thought we could have a kind of it you know just a kind of an in-depth conversation about some of those themes and I'm going to talk with the two of you for a little bit and then I'll open it up for some questions. We'll go until five o'clock so it won't be a long conversation and is that all everybody good? Sound good? All right excellent and I guess I wanted to start it off with the two of you. We named this little conversation claiming your space and I was thinking about actually Kevin and I are thinking simultaneously right now so we were both thinking about out in the lobby that idea you've both written stories I know you both perform and and Melinda certainly you write other plays than the kind of play that Mala is and you both you know you have varied careers but in these the case of Daughter of a Cuban Revolutionary and Mala these are both very personal stories very personal stories about your family life and in in that world of claiming your space I guess the question that I was thinking about was when do you know it's time to tell those kind of stories like how do you know as an artist that you're going to tell something so incredibly personal and also in both the case of Daughter of a Cuban Revolutionary and then Mala Melinda is going to perform it and so in both cases you're performing these stories and so you've had an instinct that these are not just stories that you needed to tell but that you need to tell as actors as well as playwrights so anyway if you might not either of you want to start well it's interesting because I there's something in the play we talk about seeing this person on this roof across from my apartment building and he looked like my uncle Eddie and it was the middle of the night and he's waving a white handkerchief and waving at me and I you know it was the strangest thing that ever happened and you know and then I was having all these dreams and so I really felt like I was gently and sometimes not so gently being guided and saying you have to tell the story I felt I felt very much moved by my ancestors to tell them and then I started a whole process with my family members opening up some subjects and that were very painful and that was its own journey but I think the point happened for me where I had no choice I had to tell the story that's how it felt yeah my experience is very similar to yours I mean I think in general writing an idea or an image will infect my brain for example what Sonya flew I just kept turning over this idea of what would move a parent to give up their child right so I couldn't get that out of my head and I was thinking in it I couldn't get away from it was very interesting and compelling to me with Mala I feel like creating that was an act of desperation and survival I you know I I have this over my desk you know this kind of cradle where I try to write at least one true thing you know every day every other day just writes one thing that's true for me is in a period of my life where every part of my life was completely out of control do was try to survive in desperation I would reach for my cell phone in moments where I had 15 seconds and jot down a note on the cell phone at some point I went back and I looked at this collection of what inspiration and I thought it's a story and so Mala was born out of that out of a really an elemental need to express survival mechano right the difference between writing something that you think is important I'm gonna write a play about something important I'm gonna take an issue and write about it because it matters and writing about something that's true for you that's real for you that's an experience is profoundly intensely yours and having the faith that if you tell something true it will resonate truthfully among people that you don't know and maybe that you have nothing in common with right because I have faith that the human experience above all all other things unites us and so sometimes it's just about getting out of my own way and saying what I feel right now matters and I guess that's also I try to teach that when I teach playwriting and I say you know to my students your voice is unique and your voice needs to be in the world like however that manifests whether it's writing or singing or activism so sorry that's a long that's a long answer to a simple question you're getting is something interesting there both of you I think and it's something that I think about in both of your pieces what draws me to them is both the unfamiliar and the familiar so the unfamiliar being at you know I don't have it I'm not Cuban I don't have an experience of being a Cuban immigrant so I'm interested in the things I don't know about the stories that you're telling I'm Italian so sometimes I feel a little sense of simpatico in the you know what your mothers say to you but the but but it you know so it's the unfamiliar but then of course I think you're both getting at these very universal themes simultaneously and I just wonder about for you as artists that relationship between you know what's very specific to your experience and then how you're exploring these things that matter to all of us and I think that's the beauty in both of the you know in both of your work. Is there a question in there? I don't know, maybe it's just a comment but you know we spoke briefly last night I saw the show last night and Marissa and I had a conversation and I was talking to you about how with your show this experience of wanting to know your lineage you know that your show your play has so many layers that go so far back you know to the parents but also to the ancestors you talked about the ancestors you know the gods who watch over you and this and and again the fact that it's particularly first generation immigrant that seemed to me a very American thing right we talked a little bit about that like I think in particular it's for this country that's a story that we tell and retell a lot like where our people are from or you'll meet someone at a party and you'll say where are your people from that's a line I use a lot you know and they'll say well Poland via Afghanistan or you know I'm Persian but my mother was really Irish you know that everyone's got their origin story and I feel like that's also very specific to the place where we live like I don't think they do that in Sweden I don't think they do that in places where everyone is the same you know it's where it's very homogenous a very homogenous population so it may also again be like the specific the specific the conversation that's specific to us as Americans you know I think that's also something else to look at when we talk about these and right what is America what were we and what are we becoming I think this this thing of remembering is really important we were just talking in the lobby a little bit that I mean partly my impetus for writing the piece was to claim my father's place in Cuban history somebody who had been erased and also to discover you know something about my own self right about what we understand who we are by knowing what we come from I think and the Greek goddess of the arts is also the goddess of memory and I think that's really important there are things that we are tasked to do is artists to remember things that are uncomfortable for the culture that maybe the culture wants to pour concrete over and I think that's partly the friction sometimes you know both for ourselves to dig into histories and memories and remembering things but I think it's really important I think that's certainly I feel like that's a big part of our work I just want to throw out there Polly I think it's really important to state you know the way you open this discussion about you saw the work and you said we're producing it like that doesn't happen no no one does that for for artists for writers for actors it's a it's a gerbil wheel of years of development right everyone wants to do a reading of your play everyone wants to talk to you about the play you want you want to have endless meetings about how your play could be better but but to have an organization especially with the like these incredible facilities in this incredible visibility this power to say yes no maybe in four seasons I mean right it doesn't matter what we write we're performers that has to be seen right plays have to be produced they don't exist in the drawer and so all of our great ideas and love and care and activism doesn't matter without a producer who says this voice needs to be heard now and if the producers are only listening to the same voices the same race of performers of the same particular story of the same socioeconomic you know comfortable monologue audiences will I I think audiences will stop going to the theater because there's nothing is resonating with or the same thing keeps resonating it's like you don't hear the tone anymore because it's the same so I just want to say who does to what you you do you and David and David and all of all of you guys there but it's unbelievable as an artist to have a producer say yes thank you the yeah I mean and to that question about I mean just what stories get told what stories get heard I mean I guess you know in what way for you as artists and you both are experienced artists so you've been around and you know you have a history as you think about that history how how is America changing I mean you both are talking about that and how is it changing in the world of the stories that we're telling in the theater and other places I mean how do you how do you see it evolving in your experience there's there's so much change but I mean I I think the change has been happening for a long time I think there's a way in which voices that have been shut out are just kind of taking matters into their own hands and saying we're doing this that's certainly I'm part of the Latino theater Commons that was in many ways birthed in this room or the large gathering after the initial birth was in this room so this is a very special room to perform in for me and you know that it very much is yeah we're we're changing the narrative of the American theater we're claiming our space we're telling our stories we are promoting each other we are supporting each other and we're finding those allies who say yeah your voices should be heard as well I mean that's that's really that's really the big thing that's changed I did a project around the during the last election there was a lot of talk about traditional America being lost and that really got my back up and I thought okay I'm gonna do a piece about traditional America and so I did a piece called the LA founding families and a lot of people don't know that there were 44 people who founded men women and children that founded the city of LA and all but two were what we would call today people of color everyone else was the other two were white Spaniards and then the rest were all Native American African background and then all the different mixing so I mean and it was one of those things where when I took when we presented the piece there were a lot of people who were like whoa I didn't know this you know and it's so I think there's also something about revealing what's already there the change has happened and and it's about really I feel like our communities of color are stepping forward and claiming that space and saying yeah we're here we've been here right yeah and I would also just add I think at least we have finally arrived at the point where I think I can say no major American theater company will announce the season without women in it or without playwrights of color in it or if they do the community's going to raise holy hell I mean I think that that's something right where it used to be not it wasn't something even remarked on I don't think I think everyone understands they can't they cannot do that anymore if only for the sake of all the bad publicity they will get so I feel like the as Marissa was saying the community is so much more educated audiences are so much more educated about what they've been missing and making clear their demands on their local theaters their producers theaters that they subscribe subscribe to and saying this is not acceptable that sea change although it may be it was too long coming and it's certainly not enough it's by no means enough because for me until there's 50 you know until the 50% women in the season I still have a problem with that but but it's it's better so you know we have to keep pushing in terms of our collective activism both as both as artists and as consumers of art you know I mean switching gears a little but I keep circling around this question of and I'm thinking back about you know your comments about being first-generation immigrants and what story that is and then I think about in your work writing about home and I just wonder about what is home for you as you keep exploring this you know I just had this very bizarre experience of coming back I'm from a small town a very conservative town in Indiana and it's not home at all for me but it's also home it's such an odd you know like so I'm I'm always juggling how much it's not home and how much it is home simultaneously and I and I think about that in relationship to America versus Cuba versus you know and so can you just talk about how you navigate that both as artists but just you know like how you emotionally navigate that subject of home it's funny because when I went to Cuba the first time I thought I'm gonna be home I'm gonna feel at home and I was so not at home you know it was like wait a second this is supposed to be home why didn't that happen and you know I thought about this question a lot and I realize this room is home talking to you guys is home and and what's great is I'll meet artists from different parts of the world and like there's a when there's that there's so much that we share and I really feel like other artists and and that community who are working to create together that always feels like home to me like and that is I can find anywhere that's I can go anywhere in the world and I can find those group of people who are you know making work I would I always think about so I wrote a piece this is the first piece I wrote which was also semi-autobiographical but a lot of a lot of material about my doubt and in the play sort of the culmination of the play the line is it's a privilege to grow up in the place where you were born and to live a life I'm just quoting myself but but right what like how what an insane privilege is to grow old in the place where you were born right so like think about it who who does that right I mean does it anyone in this room been able to do that it you know as Americans were nomadic we're also people again we're from we're forced to move circumstances that are beyond our control or we choose a new home and I just think about the great migration that's happening in Europe and you know what is home to the people in from Syria like what will what will they look back on enough in a generation or two so so I actually think that that question is really tied up in a question of privilege because it's only the really well-connected successful I find safe financially stable people who get to grow old where they were born and and and I can't I can't like just can't help rethinking that given your family story in my family story which is similar the diaspora that so many of our generations have suffered and I just I wonder you just have to make home every day right every day you have to make your home with what you have the people around you right yeah and I mean I have mixed feelings about it because I also in terms of home having to do with a nation obviously I'm moving away from that right I I nationalism is very problematic for me and I grew up with you know and I'm sure Cubans are not the only culture but they're the best at everything right other Cubans think there's no one else that can make music that can do this that could do that well maybe it's true about music but sorry had to do it but you know that there's it's problematic and I I also grew up in a household where my father referred himself as a citizen of the world and I like that I like the idea of the citizen of the world I kind of think the survival of the planet depends on us thinking that way and that there's there's something about making a new kind of home in community you know in our extended community and communities that I like I like that home doesn't have to be although I love the earth and there's no question I love Cuba I loved being there as soon as I leave I want to come back you know I've been there five times and I've been there twice this year and I just keep like I gotta go back I gotta go back so yes it does the land of my ancestors has has a pool you know but home can be each day I like that a lot another question that arises for me with for both of you with your work I thinking about this a lot today because I've been trying very much to stay somehow to stay out of the world of politics right now like I mean you can't help but do it but in some way I don't want to be mad all the time so I've been trying you know to just not you know look too closely if I can help it and then I sort of I don't know I kind of blew a gasket this morning which I don't do very often after I read the paper and and I wonder about the way in which Cuba as a nation is just political I mean you just say Cuba and you're in such a charge political environment and and particularly in this country you say it I mean it's a very chart thing and so and and again I'm back back to having been in Indiana the last couple days with family I mean the way we get along is we never speak you know you just cannot even mention like and if somebody says anything everyone goes quiet and then they let the moment pass and so that's how we get along and and I wonder as artists as you navigate I mean I know how hard it is to navigate it you know in a home how do you navigate it you know in the work around you know family and Cuba and nation and home I'm always yeah I mean I I actually find them always upset no matter what which direction the conversation is going and I think that has you know it right complexity of the issue blah blah over simplification blah blah and then there's this thing about what we think here like okay American policy yes moving in the right direction yes and then this thing here about there's always stuff that's you're hanging on to from generations and I I'm and I'm I guess by nature or devil's advocate anyways so I'm always on the wrong side of the argument and I found like I I guess I most clearly became aware of this when I you know I grew up in a house Cuban-American so by nature very conservative very particular opinions political opinions and I was the you know Marxist Marxist you know leaning communists raging Democrat blah blah and I spent a significant amount of time in Florida and Miami and I came back and and so I'm used to that perception I came back from Miami and suddenly that this is right when alien Gonzales had been you know found unwrapped and I came back and all my American friends were like he should go back and I was like what do you mean you don't know anything and I the things that were coming out of my mouth were you know as far to the right as as you know I thought who are you and I had the same experience coming back from Cuba so and you know anyone it comes up to me and says I'm so excited about that and I'm like yes but that's what I'm that's I'm going everything for me about Cuba is yes but everything so I find it nearly impossible to talk about except on very personal emotional terms policy I I was in Cuba both Miami and Cuba during the alien Gonzales thing and I learned something so important because in Miami the news reports who's a Cuban artist in Cuba right now has started an instituto the art of ism and it's basically in Mavana it's a space for creative exploration of what it is to be to make work freely right and collaborate and I'm so interested in that when I was in Cuba most recently I was talking to somebody one of the workers in a hotel and he heard that I was speaking Spanish and he said oh we're you know where are you from or what are you and I said I said I'm so I go on and and he said well where do you live and I said the United States and he said you're not Cuban and I looked at him and I said see so I'm Cuban and I think you know without getting into anything with the guy you know I just think it's important to kind of just assert gently let's let's try and find a place to actually communicate right that's that's that's not going to be easy and especially with people who really make us angry but I don't know how we move forward otherwise you know I don't you know wall building does not move us forward communication moves us forward I would love to let anyone I know there's some folks have been thinking about the play and I would love to if you have questions do you mind just so people can hear it there's a little there's a mic on each side yeah how about you go and then you go how about we'll take turns love to hear your questions yeah go ahead hi thank you so much for doing this I have a two-part question one I as a first-generation immigrant myself who's never been to my native country and and just got a lot of negative messages growing up and a lot of prejudice about rejecting your native culture yet invariably being inextricably intertwined in it and the whole dichotomy of being torn between two cultures I'm just wondering my first part is when was the turning point the tipping point for both of you as far as really delving into your heritage and your culture was it in in the case of Marissa the death of your father or the death of your uncle or just I mean was it just a coming of age thing reaching a certain age reaching a certain point of self acceptance I don't know I was just curious like if there was a particular moment that really made you go back do the research go back to your native country things like that because I've always had the curiosity myself but I haven't had that tipping point that's why I was curious and the second part of my question is you both have chosen to do one-person plays and I'm wondering if you thought about at any point about doing conventional play where you would have actors playing your mother your father different family members as opposed to just making it you on stage the whole time and and what was the thought process or decision into making it strictly a one person show I'll just jump in by saying I mean I I've written I have written many multi-character plays and generally people come backstage and they're like oh was that your story so you get make you get conflated no matter what you do you know my my multi-character plays are not autobiographical in any way they're just stuff that I'm interested in but people audiences tend to they like to think it's a very you know it's more authentic if it's all true so I don't know what I don't want me to generalize about audiences so I I guess the closest moment I could come to identifying what you're sort of putting your finger on is now I was an actress for many years I'm still an actress and I was living in Minneapolis in the mid 90s when the new play development scene was getting very exciting lots of new players all the time and I was doing a lot of play readings where you would come in read a new play and then talk about it and say this is really exciting I was confused here you know it was part of a conversation and I came home one night after a reading and I thought I'm really enjoying helping someone else develop their artistic vision and it was really just like a light went on and I thought do I have an artistic vision so I just started writing whatever I was interested in I didn't know if I was writing fiction I didn't know if I was writing poetry I didn't know what I was doing and I thought I'll just write down some family stories and then I wrote down conversations I remembered and then I wrote down a funny thing and I amassed a pile of paper and I looked at them and I realized everything was about Cuba having never really given it much thought everything that I was moved to write about was all linked by that theme and and again that was another aha so and someone else has said it better but it's something like this right I read what I wrote to know what I think and not the other way around I recognized that that was my pool of inspiration not that I thought it would be interesting for anyone else but that it was interesting to me I had something very similar I was I worked for many years as an actress I was living in New York and I remember distinctly one my my husband who's a theater director an opera director he was writing a grant proposal for a project and I said that's so cool you know you're like getting your work done and you know and he turned to me he goes well you could do that I was like what you know I was in my my 20s and I late 20s and I thought yeah I could and he's like well what's what story what would you want to make something about and immediately and it kind of was took me to by surprise oh something about my uncle and I kind of went what really oh yeah that is and then I just kind of like followed that line yeah there there's something about it's one of the reasons why I as a I teach at California Institute of the Arts grad and undergrad programs and it's something that I do immediately with my students is get them to start making their own work you know they write missions and we do personal artistic strategic planning and that whole process of really just asking yourself what's important to me you know what are those things that I value what are the stories that aren't being told that I want to hear told what do I feel passionate about those those questions are really important and if you just take you know nobody can answer that for you right you got to take that time and space to really be with yourself and ask those questions and see what emerges and what emerges could be a surprise right have a comment and then a question you had talked a little bit about home and having money to go make wherever you are home it's been my experience that usually gentrification or whatever you don't have a choice you don't have the money to stay hence you have to move but my question has to do with the internet mind control you had talked a little bit about the news here versus the news in Cuba and with the internet kind of making the world kind of one place and totally accessible how do you see your place changing or maybe videoing and going on the internet or how do you see that working I just want to clarify so my comment about home was actually more geared towards you can only afford to stay where you're born it if you have money it's it's so often people without options without choice who get swept away in movements and like as you said gentrified neighborhoods sprout up around you that you can't afford to stay in so I think I think it's an incredible luxury to be that person who gets to say oh yeah I was born right here in this house this is where I grew up in this you know I think that's the luxury and so many of us are just trying to you know just trying to keep keep ground under our feet never mind you know this idea of what a home is so yeah I just I wanted to make that clear that I don't think of money buying you other homes I think of money and privilege keeping you where you were where you come from but you want to touch on the question yeah I my parents each had two jobs and we moved nine times by the time I was in high school and so part of that was you just you know it got too too expensive to stay so I think that was also a reason when I talk about traveling and I'm in a privileged position because my work will take me somewhere to be able to you know to do a play in in Scotland or something like that so that that there's definitely you know a privilege there but the the home thing is the people that I can't meet even you know from different parts of the world here that I connect with but what was to the second part of your question the second part of the question he had to do with you talking a little bit about the commercials or the news in here versus Cuba and having being controlled or having the public opinion controlled how do you see your plays say using the internet or combating that it's the internet is just starting to get to the island it's but I think it's a little bit like you know if it opens a crack I mean when I was there last and you were there more recently but you know in order for a tourist to access the internet you have to go down to the lobby and you pay a fee and you get a number and there's a special code and you can access it for two hours like it's very controlled you know that's not gonna last much longer you know I'm sorry even here in the states what you see is controlled by pretty much nine media centers and companies so how do you and they mold public opinion so how do you see arts be it and it doesn't have to be the internet I just use that as an example combating that and unifying that yeah no that yeah it that's clear I don't think it can I don't think in not in a I mean I can't compete on it doesn't have the bandwidth I mean our plays will reach a hundred people in an evening you know that's that's not gonna that's not gonna threaten Rupert Murdoch's empire that's not gonna threaten the Castro regime's line on you know what happened in Havana today but I think it's all we can do which is talk and tell the truth and you know I'm skeptical of everything I read and here I'm skeptical of everything I see I'm skeptical I mean I think that that's our only power so I don't know I'm I don't I don't I don't think I don't think a play can compete with with a cat video seen by millions and millions of people like you know but I don't despair and you know and maybe your question about how it how open how opening the relationship might change my work I don't know but I expect it will change my work so I guess I can say that it's gonna change my work somehow that is such an important question and it's something I was part of a delegation of theater artists that went to Cuban October and that was something we you know it's not true in the Cuban dance community it's not true in the Cuban music community or visual art why theater and honestly I'm it's something that I'm really interested in and want to have conversations in Cuba and with Cubans about but for some reason theater you know it's it's deplorable the representation I mean there is none you know and I saw several plays there during the festival it was really shocking and those of us in that were on that delegation all had the same response like what's going on isn't a lot of the theater stay controlled or it's all it's all state-controlled so perhaps there's some relationship there I'm I'm guessing no but it's a very important question well I I would just offer up that any any anything that is controlled from the top down whether it's business or the arts or theater anything that comes from the top down with a mandate of what it should be is doomed to fall into a cycle of perpetuating the same errors of you know the past so it's I don't I don't have any experience with Cuban theater yeah I did not see it I mean I know I I know that this is you know I I don't know the the answer to that or I do know that there are Afro Cuban artists who visual artists there's I'm I can't remember right now but there's an Afro Cuban visual artists who did a whole thing on beauty and hair in for the Biennale this past year the year that I was there I met her so there are artists in other areas that I met who are grappling with that issue but I didn't see it in theater yet I haven't seen it in theater yet yeah yeah yeah go ahead and make comment and question I see a question coming up behind whoever wants to yeah I just had a comment I don't know who said it but I thought it was great that you went to see the play in LA and you immediately bought it here and bought it for us to see the last year and a half I've come to art episode on a number of occasions in the place that I've seen here have just been phenomena I just want to thank you for seeing it and bringing it here thank you so much yeah thank you I'm also with the play reading club from Newton and I read your play actually a couple times before coming in today and at some point you're saying that you're the radio or a radio and I just checked my notes and I translated to myself she's a transmitter so the question of mine is that me as a receptor what you actually wanted to deliver or what what you wanted me to hear today and I want to ask this question first of Melissa actually because you said that you saw it yesterday the play and you're a Cuban or Cuban American or whatever let's not go into details but whatever you feel about yourself but but I want to know what you learned yesterday about revolutionaries or anything new to you was there something new politically emotionally I understand so I would rather wanted to have I don't know historical kind of information but it's question for both of you so but if you could start with Melissa could start with your impression of yesterday and learning and then just what it what you wanted me to hear so thank you that's a great question my I feel like I know a lot about Cuban history I've just been always very interested in and I do a lot of reading about it I pick a period and I get to know things about it and I've also learned a lot from my parents and the thing that I always learned about the revolution was you know well everyone supported the revolution at the beginning that was sort of that's like the party line for almost anyone you ask well everyone supported at the beginning and then later you know but I never understood the pieces of it like I didn't know about at each of us I didn't know about this you know this family legacy I had heard I knew very vaguely about the suicide but I got I got so much more clarity on the timeline and the trajectory of how it went bad how things fell apart the size of the hope of a democracy of free speech of you know the right to vote and how it all came crashing down and so quickly so there was a bunch of factual stuff in there but for me and Marissa I haven't talked to you about this but I felt like the thing that grabbed me the most was this unfinished line you had where I think maybe it was right after the man in white and you were I think you were over here and you're saying but is it my fault that I'm like you were drawing a very direct parallel between you and your uncle and there was something about his suicide and it was implying something about you and and your worldview and and I was so moved by that it felt like underneath it there was this this constant question of like why am I what why am I different why do I feel too much why do I do things in a way that people say I should you know these questions that are always sort of under the surface for so many of us and for me the play really grabbed me there because it wasn't aligned to your dad it was aligned to your uncle and this like you talk about this gnawing desire to know this man who's unknowable to you and and I was really struck by how theater can make those connections so apparent so quickly and so viscerally so what I got there was that it's it's really always about like how did I get to be this soul and so I don't know that that was what that that through all the politics and through all the facts and through all the history and through all the longing ultimately what you're what we're longing to know is the only thing we can know which is this right and trying to answer those questions to get other people to tell us why am I like you why am I not like you how am I different how am I the same that's what really what just moved me so so much I think I'm very interested in again claiming my father's place there's a lot of assumptions I feel like the the revolution was hijacked you know and everybody knows one person maybe now two and they're both castrels and there were a lot of people there were a lot of people that made that revolution happen and a lot of people in the story of Cuba that aren't people don't know about and so that's really important to me that I'm sharing you know the story about this figure who is really important to happen to be my uncle and and my father and of course my mom that I so sharing stories that aren't heard about Cuba that aren't heard about or is that's really important to me and then I on a deeper level like I'm also had to put that in that list of things that I'm a daughter of you know I'm the daughter whose deep roots travel far beyond homeland and geographical borders and you know I I want to reach people and I want you to be inspired to know more about what you come from and and how those voices who have been before you have affected you you know I think both those things are really important to me the specific about my family and then the you know I guess that's more spiritual right of you know who are we had we get here like I have that line you know that moment when my father you know and that actually happened to him where he was taken and was told he was going to be killed and that moment of like how did I get here I think that's that's something I think you know whether we conscious of it or not we're often asking ourselves that certainly at this point in my life you know I'm how did I get here you know it's a different horizon than it was you know 20 years ago so those are all things that I'm interested in and sharing yeah so I just want to say we're gonna wrap up and I just a couple final comments which one is you know I think of that internet question and I think well you know the only thing the only thing to be done is to tell stories in these kind of pure honest ways that you both do and and to do it in the kind of intimate spaces that change lives and so I just want to thank you for being artists who do that and give us those opportunities and then I just want to say a final comment which is that one of the things that interested us at Ars Emerson this year in terms of programming was we use the word Latino all the time like it means one thing and that's so odd to me because it seems to mean many things and so we program very specifically at the end of the season a show from Santiago Chile a show that was you know a Cuban American show and then a Mexican American show pre-meditation Chicano show coming what date is that is it next week oh my god it's actually next week so and we and on main no actually May 10th May 10th but to somebody's birthday I know is we're gonna do a conversation about the diversity inside of the Latino story just around that you know to be able to think more deeply about you know what it means to say Latino in this day and age right in this moment in America so thank you so much for sticking around for being part of the book club for having the conversation thank both of you for being here today I really appreciate it thank you


You have to stop acting like there are no other choices out there. There are millions, there are millions of other options and choices out there and choosing to be in the circumstance that we are currently in is in fact a choice.


CBS Radio, a division of the Columbia Broadcasting System, and its 217 affiliated stations, present the CBS Radio Workshop. Radio's distinguished series dedicated to man's imagination, The Theater of the Mind. Transcribe. And Robbers is a game played by children, and it's a game actors play on the radio for a living. Tonight the actors as usual will be playing make-believe robbers, but the cops will be real. The CBS Radio Workshop presents cops and robbers. My name is Stanley Ness. I'm a writer, mostly of crime criminals and what police do about them. For a long time I've wondered what real detectives would do when confronted with a fictitious crime. And tonight the CBS Radio Workshop is giving me a chance to find out. First, so you the actors and I can start off knowing what the detectives will try to find out. We've written a short dramatic sketch which we've recorded while our detectives, all retired members of the police department, city of New York, are across the street having coffee. The scene, a one-room flat on the upper east side of New York. What? Who is it? It's me, Duncan. Well, come on in. It's open. It's not open. Honest goodness. Be careful. My finger nails are wet. Oh. Well, where is it? Well, where's what? The Chalmaine. You're going to stop at the Chinese restaurant and bring back Chalmaine. Where you been? Oh, oh, yeah, yeah, I was. I forgot. You forgot? How could you forget what you went out for? Ellie, baby, listen. You gotta stand by me. I'm in a jam. You went out to get Chalmaine. How could you get in a jam? I did. That's all there is to it. What kind of a jam? I can't tell you right now. You expect me to stand by you and you can't tell me? Why don't you get the Chalmaine? Forget about the Chalmaine. Will you? Listen, you got the telephone number that Barron grew with Joe hangs out at the Glenham's. What's Joe got to do with this? Have you got the telephone number? Yeah, I got it. It's in the drawer there. One of their cards. Oh, get it for me, will you, baby? Get it yourself. My finger nails are all wet. What's this all about, anyway? I'll tell you. I'll tell you later. Well, where is it, anyway? It's there. Look. Look. Now tear apart. Oh, here it is. Look, I got to go out in the hall and phone him. Don! Yeah?  I don't have to sit down. I can tell you standing up. I shot a guy. You what? I shot a guy. You're the guy. I don't know how I could, but I did. So we know what our detectives will try to find out. The crime referred to as of such a serious nature that the precinct detective squad commander was called from his home to supervise the investigation. Our squad commander tonight is Lieutenant Dan Campion, who retired from the police department a little over a year ago, after 25 years in a job. The detectives working under him will be Howard C. Clancy, Jerry Heaney, and Richard Jacobson. Approximately an hour and 10 minutes after the crime occurs, detective Jacobson, who is carrying the squeal, which means that it's his case, has returned to the station house and is typing up a report on the progress of the investigation so far. Remember, the detectives have no script. They are playing themselves, doing a job just like they have done every day. What's up, Jake? Oh, hello, Lieutenant. We had a tough stick up in the precinct tonight. Oh, another one? Yeah, liquor store over in 72nd Street. What time did it happen, Jake? About 9.50. It's that fair land liquor store over in 280, 80, 70 second.  He had a pistol. So you got a permit for it? Oh, yes, he had that. We checked on that. But anyway, he, poor fellow, got shot. Is he seriously hurt? Oh, yes, sir. He's alive yet, though. Oh, yes. He's over in Metropolitan Hospital. He fired a shot at the stick-up man. The stick-up man fired two at him and hit him. And he went down. Where was he shot, Dick? Under the chin it hit him, deflected into his jaw just below his lips. Oh. Anything else to it? He got a little more than $800. He grabbed a, uh, money in a paper bag and ran out the front door in the street. Anybody see him? Any good identifications? Well, he had a pretty fair identification. The, uh, fellow had a car. We found it out later. He ran around the corner in 3rd Avenue and he hit some old woman, knocked it down. Anybody see him? There was a sanitation man trying to help the old woman up. But he saw this fellow continue to run. He went around 3rd Avenue and looked him over and he was getting into a car and got away. You got the sanitation man name and all like that? Yes, we have that. Good. But on the back of his car, he had some of that red tape, that fluorescent tape they're using. Oh, yes.  And he got the last three numbers of the plate. I sent out a alarm for the car over the teletype with those three numbers. And, uh, all the boys in the neighboring precincts have been notified. Lieutenant Campion, Sergeant Klein on THS rang upstairs and he says, doubt over on post 11 thinks he's got that car spotted. Oh, that's fine. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. It's over there at 2nd Avenue 77th Street. It's a two-door Plymouth C. Dan. It's 3T 152. Oh, we got the full license. Yeah, and I verified it and it's registered under a Joseph E. McCondy. It's 761 E 76th Street. Hey, Clancy, could you check us properly on that? OK. See if you can get the description of the car and get the owner's name and address. Yeah, doubt his guard in the car over there. He's not letting anybody go near it. Say, Jake, you go over with Howie after he makes that call and say we can get that owner in here and we'll talk to him. Very good. We'll do that. OK, get that on him. Now we see the detectives are off on the right track. But what about the characters played by our actors? Let's get back to them. The following scene was written, rehearsed and recorded in advance. And, of course, Lieutenant Campion and his men are unaware of what is going on in this scene, just as they would be in the job. All right, Joe. I'm coming. Oh, Joe, darling, you're done. You've got a friend in me. That was the best fight of all season and I got to miss the finish. I appreciate it, Joe. Hello, Ellie. Hi. What's the big jam you're in? You're sure it's not the car? No, it's not the car. It only should be. Where's the keys? Here. Here you are, Joe. Where'd you leave the car? In the same place, right where you're always leaving. All right. Now, what's this big jam you're in? He went out to get some chow mein to bring back. Let me tell it, will you? Who's stopping you? I went out and I started to the Chinese restaurant. All right. Then I figured it's Friday. It's going to be a long weekend and I don't have much money in my pocket. So? So I figured I ought to do a little work. Then I ran into you on the corner and I said, Joe, can I borrow your car? You said, sure, why not if you fill it up with gas? So you gave me the keys and that was that. Not yet. That wasn't that. Yeah, let me tell it my own way. So I lent you the car. Yeah, that's right. And I drove around Scouting for a good place to make. I parked it on 72nd Street where I could get away easy. I walked around a corner and there was this liquor store just right for picking. You was in my car for the get? It was all perfectly simple, Joe. Wait, wait. There's more to come. What's to come, Donk? Well, it was a good touch and I cleaned out the register and I'm heading for the door and all of a sudden another clerk comes out from the back with a gun. Uh-oh. So what could I do? I blast away. He drops and I take out around the corner for the car. To make the long story short, I'm in the car and I'm away. It's the guy dead. He didn't wait around to find out. My car, you gotta borrow it to go heist the joint and shoot up a guy. That's a fine thing. I'm sure. I'm sure I got away okay. I don't think anybody made the license number. There were some people looking at me as I came around the corner, but I don't think they made the number on the car. I suppose if somebody did. That's what I want to talk to you about, Joe. Look, if by any chance somebody did in the cops come talking to you, don't tell them you let me in the car. What do you mean don't tell them I lent you the car? What do I kind of tell them? Well, you know what to say, Joe. You'll think of something. There ain't a chance in a thousand anybody made the car, but I just want to cover every step of ground. Look, look, I'm an innocent bystander. I was in the bar and grill watching the fight. You didn't tell me what you were going to do. Why should I cover for you? Joe, I've known you a long time. A friend in need is a friend indeed. Oh, tell me something, Duncan. Huh? What? How much did you get out of the liquor store? Money, you mean? Yeah, money. Over $500. How much? Over $500. $812. That wasn't bad. Was it worth shooting a man for? Joe, you've got to help me. I help you plenty. Give me $400. What do you mean give you $400? You want me to help you, don't you? But that's half. It ain't half. You've got $812. All I'm asking is $400. What? There's not a chance in 1,000. There'll be a kickback. All right, then what are you worried about? Now, let's forget the whole thing. I'll go home and go to sleep. And if the cops talk to me, all I can tell them is the truth. Well, you got me in a box. Joe, that's your box. Give me the $400. What are you taking chances? Well, what are you going to tell them if they talk to you? I don't know yet. I'll take her something. Yeah, but why? Well, you give me a chance. The deal was just sprung on me. I've got to work it out. All right, Joe, you cover me now. Don't forget. I'll cover you if they talk to me. Thanks, Joe. I knew I could count on you.    Now, with sufficient information on which to act, Lieutenant Campion has instructed his men on their next step in the investigation. Detectors Clancy and Jacobson, for instance, go to 761 East 76th Street. The address lists it for Joseph P. McCondy and whose name the car is registered. Remember, from now on, there is no script. The actors are on their own. So are the detectives. Let's see what happens. Hey, Mike. McCondy. Mike. Is there something I could do for you, John Lynch? What's your name, Chief? Joseph P. McCondy. What detectives? Oh, do you own an automobile? Yes, I do. What kind of a car do you have? I have a 1950 Plymouth, two-door. Do you have a little accident tonight with it? No, sir. Do you have a license? Yes, sir, I have it right here. Do you see it? Sure. Is there something wrong, gentlemen?  I'm sure, someplace, didn't you? No, sir. You sure of that? Absolutely. Do you own the car to anybody? No, sir. Where is the car now? Well, it left it on 2nd Avenue, between 77th and 78th Street. Why did you leave it around there for? Well, I was at a bar. Well, now, I was watching the fights. Nice. Anybody with you? No, sir. How are you, sir? I have a couple of boys I see every once in a while in there. What's some of their names? Give me one name. Well, there was... I'd give you a couple of those, Bud and Tommy. Uh-huh.  No, no, no. We were always like to talk to you. Oh, hold on. You don't mind, do you? No, sure, sir.  No, sir. Absolutely not. You're sure of that? I'm clean. Ever been arrested? No, I've never been arrested. You're sure of that? Absolutely. Look, anything that you say we're going to check, don't forget that. Right, sir. You might just as well tell us the truth right now. Yeah, I've never been arrested. You've never been arrested. Oh, I've been down at a house. Okay. Let's go. Okay. With Joe McCondy and custody, the detectives returned to the station house. They walked them upstairs to the squad room and into Lieutenant Campion's office. Son, if this is a... McCondy. Follow along that car. Oh, hello, Mr. McCondy. How do you do, sir? Sit down there a minute. Yes, thank you. Can I see outside a minute, Lieutenant? Yeah, and you stay in here with him. Okay. I'll be right back, Mr. McCondy, where you have some other business to take care of. Could I smoke in here, sir? All right. Gary, go ahead. Don't throw the butts on the floor. Oh, no, I wouldn't do that. You want any coffee? Yeah, I wouldn't mind a little. Okay, stand up. Yes, sir. Everything you have in your pockets, take them out and put it on the desk here. Everything, no matter what it is. Okay. If it's money, count it. All right. In front of me. Yeah. It's embarrassing, because they're not too well-heeled. They only got $5, $10, $11, $12, $13. $13, okay, put it back. Okay. Any other cards? I have a wallet here, howie. Okay. Yeah, let's look at that. Well, if... All right. Yeah, my wallet. There's not a wallet I got. I keep... Who do you live with at this address? Nobody. I see. All right. What do you work at, Mr. McCondy? Well, I've... I kind of dappled in the sports, the equestrian... What do you mean, dappled? Well, you know, I hang around the racetracks a little bit. Your bookmaker? Well, a little bit. You take numbers? No, I don't take numbers. Have you ever fingerprinted for anything? No, I was never fingerprinted. Never fingerprinted? No. Because we're gonna fingerprint you. Well, that's all right. That's your privilege, I guess. Excuse me a minute. Excuse me a minute. Well, tell me, he was in the spot up on the avenue tonight. Yeah, we'll come to that. I'd say, Jerry, check the BCI in this fellow's name and address, and you've got a pretty good description of him. Okay. Now, I want you to check the information bureau and see if he's been... Do you ever get a summons for anything? No. Never had a summons in your life? No. Well, you live in a park and summons and stuff like that? Yeah. Well, I got a ticket for speeding, I once, twice. How long ago was that? How long ago was that? Yeah, I... Why don't you answer the question? Well, I... I call those tickets, you know. You were convicted then. That's polite. Was that right? You were fined? Yeah, I was fined. Well, that's your conviction. Now, where were you at 920? I was at Glendham's Bar and Grill on 2nd Avenue, between about 75th and 76th Street. I got there about... Oh, about 9 o'clock.  And we were chewing the rag there for about an hour to fight one on at about 10 o'clock. And we made a couple of bets, me and this Bud and Tommy, and... You didn't leave the premises between 9 and 10 o'clock? No, no. Did you see the whole fight? Yeah, I went 10 rounds. Who won the fight? I won the fight. I won the fight. I won the fight. What odds did you get? Two to one. I gave to you.  What did you get on that, Jerry? Anything? McCondy, what are you handing out here? You did a bit in 1952 of a Pettit Lasny. What kind of a Pettit Lasny was it? You went to the island for it. Oh, what kind of a Pettit Lasny was that? Was that Grand Lasny and reduced to Pettit Lasny? You took a plea on it, didn't you? Yes. It was Grand Lasny, then, wasn't it? Well, yeah, I don't... Listen, I don't know the technical words for these things. Oh, you know just as much about it as we do. You arrest us. You know more law about that. Now, hold it, fellas. Listen, who used your car tonight? We haven't got all night. There's a man dying.  Remember me saying that? Yeah, yeah, I know that. Listen, Mac, why don't you stop kidding? We're bringing the bartender over here. Well, you could bring him in. He's coming in. That's okay with me.  And if he don't come up with something different, boy, you're in. It's after one in the morning. A detective has drawn the Glenham's Born Grill on 2nd Avenue to get the bartender, Whitey. He brings him in at Lieutenant Campion's office. Hi, Luke. Hello. This is Harry White and they call him Whitey. He's the bartender. This is Lieutenant Campion in charge of the squad here. Hello, Whitey. How are you? This is Detective Heaney and Detective Jacobson. Hi, Whitey. How long you been in our precinct, Whitey? Oh, I've been working a joint up there about eight years now. Eight years? Okay. All right, if I sit down. No, go ahead. Sit down. You can smoke. Do what you want. You know Joe McCondy, Whitey? Yeah, I know Joe a long time. You see him tonight? Yeah, yeah. He was there tonight. Was he in the general tonight? Yeah. Yeah. Was he there all night? Uh, well, whatever. Pretty busy night. He came in, uh, came in a little after nine o'clock, and he was about nine o'clock, yeah. Was there all night then? Yeah, he was there, uh, well, let's see. Now, the fights, he was watching the fights. He was there about, uh, quarter of 11, I think. Anyway. Who was he with, Whitey? I had a couple of pals of his, uh... Who are they? Oh, I don't know. Their last name's Tom and Bud something. He's always with them. What time did Joe come in there, did you say? Well, I think it was around nine o'clock. Who wasn't ten o'clock? Oh, no, no. No, he was there at ten o'clock. Was he there at seven thirty? No, no, he wasn't there at seven thirty. Did you miss him any time at all between nine and ten o'clock? Between nine and ten? Yeah. Did you miss him? No. You took a bet off him, didn't you? No, he was there. He was drinking all the time. Well, he said he was there since about seven thirty. All evening and all night. Somebody's lying here, Whitey. Either you or him. No, I remember this, and I know. I know Joe very well. What about us two pals, Whitey? Do they leave the place at all tonight? No, the two pals were there. They were there all the time. I came in with them. Wait a minute. I'll tell you one thing. The phone rang. And I picked it up and called. It was for Joe. But this was, uh... This was about ten thirty, I think. So, uh, I called Joe and Joe went up the phone. I forgot about it. It was busy, like I said, you know. And, uh, suddenly Joe comes running up the bar. He says, I gotta go. What time was that? Well, this was, uh... This was about right after the fight. It was male or female voice? Uh... You mean the guy that called her was a male voice? Male voice. And he called and then Joe said he had to leave right away? Yeah, he said something about, uh... He said, uh... I gotta go up to Ellie's, I think it was. What time was that about? I think it was about quarter of eleven. It was right after the fights were over. Oh, we don't need a lineup for this. Bring Joe in and make sure he identifies him. Uh, take him out and bring Joe in. Is this the fella here? Yeah, hi, whitey. Hi, Joe. Hi, Joe. Yeah. You said that you were in the bar all night. Yeah. Until the time you come home the detectives met you at your door. Yeah. What are you lying about? Well, I was there. Well, I'm not... Now, stop. Whitey said you weren't there. He said you left there. Who's Ellie? I don't know, no, Ellie. Well, you got a phone call and you left the place all excited. Well, I wasn't excited. Yeah, it's true. Who called you? I got a phone call at Whitey's place, you see? Now, here's the way it works. I like I told you it'll be fine. All right, I'll take a little book in there, see? Listen, Joe. No, that's the truth. That's the truth.  Maybe Joe would rather talk to us with Whitey outside. You wait outside a while, won't you? Yeah. Go on out with him, Dick. Very good. Good luck, Joe. All right, Whitey. Thanks. Are you going to tell us who you loaned your car to or not? I didn't lend it to nobody. All right, nobody had your car tonight. No. You had it all night. It was on the street. All right, fellas. Does the car belong to you? Sure. Is there no mortgage on it or anything else? It all belongs to you. Yeah, yeah. Does everything in the car belong to you? That stuff in the back, on the trunk and all like that? Everything.  Yeah. Is that right? That's right. All right, well, how about the gun under the seat please? No, not the bottle of gun. Now, you fellas heard him say everything belongs to him. And do you know where the previous Mr. Meena boy? This is a felony. You're not kidding anybody. You're Rin. Well, there's a man dying over there. All I know is you could check with the lady and with Bud. Bud works in the garage on First Ave. We'll have somebody check. Mccondy, I want to tell you something. Yeah. Now, we found this gun in your car. And what we're going to do, we're going to send this gun down to the ballistic bureau to have a test made and to see if it conforms with the bullets that were shot into that man tonight. So we're just going to hold you. You are now arrested. You're arrested for 1897 of the penal law, which happens to be a felony.  Mccondy, why don't you get some off yourself and kick in? You haven't got a chance. I'll tell you, everything I told you is true. We've been babying you all day and all night. We're not going to baby you anymore. I don't want to take no raps for nobody, so... You're not going to take any raps? No. I'm glad to hear that. Why don't you tell the lieutenant just what happened? OK, OK. Let's go. I got a phone call. Let him talk. Why, you see, from, uh, from Dunk. Dunk. What's Dunk's name? Dunk, Dunk Rui. Dunk Rui? Yeah, it's like Dewey with an R. Where does he live? He lives on, uh, 390-8071 Street. That's Ellie's, uh, that's his girlfriend. Oh, yeah? Yeah, that's what he called me from Ellie's house. Let's take this name and address for a while. Check that at the BCI, see if we get anything on him. Go ahead now. Well, he called me up and, uh, he said, uh, he had to see me, you see. I told him to come down because I wanted to watch the fight. I didn't want to miss the last round. So he said it was very important I should come to Ellie's house, as fast as I could get there. He was, he was the one who was excited. I wasn't excited. You're the calm type. Yeah, you know, I, so anyway, uh, I went over to Ellie's house and I longed, I longed Dunk my car. I didn't, he didn't tell me what he was going to do with the car. No, he twisted your arm for you to get it from me. Well, I, I'd lend him a car. When is Dunk now? I don't know where he is now. Maybe he's at Ellie's. At Ellie's house? Yeah. What time did you learn the car? I don't know when he took it. I gave him the keys. Where do you generally meet him? At Whitey's. At Whitey's? Yeah. Yeah. But he goes study with Ellie, huh? Yeah, I've been up there for a bit. Does he live with her? Well, he's there most of the time. Just a friend. Let's be discreet, you know. What's that location again? 390, 871st. What a problem. It's, uh, 3E, I think it is. It's on the third floor. They got a phone over there? Yeah. Okay. Say, Dick, Jerry, get right over to this Ellie's house. Get that guy right there. In fact, I think we better put him in the boob downstairs, and we'll all go over. Now, 20 minutes later, the detectives are in the hall on the third floor outside of Ellie's flat. Here, as they hope to make the final arrest in the case, Lieutenant Campion gives his instructions. Yeah. Listen, everybody get your guns out right now. We don't want anybody to get hurt here. Special delivery. Oh. Where's Doug? Wait! Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Don't hide it. He's not.  Listen, Ellie, where's, where's Duncan? Duncan, who? Oh, you know, Duncan, who? Now, don't give us that line. I don't know what you're talking about, really. They don't have to. Yeah, look at this giant dog. Okay, this is a good section. Yeah, give this a good section. There's nothing here. We'll find out. We'll find out. We'll have the best movement in the world. We're going to scream, too. So just keep it nice and cool. Go over there and sit down. Really? That's my money. How much is that? A couple hundred dollars. What is a couple of hundred? It's my money. How much? I don't know. The choice to be a hundred dollars is something like that. Count that out. I saved it. Ellie, where's Duncan? I don't know. Well, we know he was up here. Charlie, let her watch him counting this dough, will you? How much is there? There's eight hundred and fifteen dollars here. Well, that's... Eight hundred and fifteen isn't a couple. I don't take it out and count it all the time. I don't keep my money in the bank. I keep it under there. You know the difference between a couple of hundred dollars and eight hundred dollars. Look, I'm going to cover the door in case this bum comes in. Oh, dude, that's what you all mean. And yell if you need some help, then. Let's get back to the money. What did you get this money? It's my money. It's my money. It's all the money I have. Don't be screaming. I'll ask you that again. What do you do for a living? I'm raising right now. Where did you get this money? I saved it. I've worked other times. What kind of life do you do? I've been on the stage. How long ago? Several years ago. Just for a little while. And then I've had other jobs. Well, how do you maintain yourself right now? Right now I'm unemployed. For how long? About six months or something like that. Six months and you got eight hundred and fifteen fish under the cover there? You live here alone, Ellie? Yes, sir, I do. What's men's clothes doing in the closet? Some, that's... Your father's. No, not my father. There's somebody left him here. She'll explain. Come on, she'll explain. You've been arrested before, Ellie. No. Ellie, thunk. Yeah, man. I think I'm up. I think I'm up. Give me a quick fan. What's this, Ellie? Give me a fresco. Oh, no, I don't know. Sit down. Sit down there. You didn't know, Dunk, huh? I didn't say I didn't know him. I said I hadn't seen him in a long time. And I hadn't.  You're gonna need it. Where are cops? I don't know you're cops. Oh, do you want to be shown? Sure, I want to be shown. What do you work at, bum?  What do you work at? I don't work. I'm sick. Oh, yeah? You'll be sicker when this is over. How long do you know to Jane here? How long do I know you? A couple of years, huh? A couple of years. Do you want to live here? Well, I don't know what you want. What do you want with me? I know you're clothes in the closet. They're his clothes. Did you leave any money with her? You left an envelope with her, didn't you? Some dome. She said you did.  You'll keep quiet. I'll leave with her. Look, I want a lawyer.  You'll get a lawyer. You'll get a lawyer. How much did you leave with her? How much money? She said you left 800 bucks. Is that right? I didn't leave. How much did you leave? No, no, no. You didn't leave. You didn't count it. I didn't leave any 800 dollars. Help me. Where did you go? You got a charge or something. Where on my charge? You'll tell him. You'll hear a charge. I'm going to give you a 48. Did you ever hear about a 49? I don't know what it is, no. Well, we make out a short affidavit down in Caught, see? And it's a 48. And if we can't find anything on it, in 48 hours, we give you another 48. And we keep giving you 48s. Until you get wifey. What kind of a deal is that? I did not want to hush the wifey. All right, get them up. We'll take them down the house. How do I see that Joe? I'll tell him. Come on. Keep going, Duncan. Next time I'll borrow somebody else's car. And that was cops and robbers, with real cops and not so real robbers. They were actors, and I'm sure you will agree, very good actors, playing for the most part without a script, knowing only the backgrounds and motivations of their characters. John Sylvester was Dunk, Elsbeth Eric was Ellie, Larry Haines played Joe, and Ken Lynch was the bartender. The CBS Radio workshop is grateful to Lieutenant Dan Campion and detectives Richard Jacobson, Howard Clancy, and Jerry Heaney for helping us try to prove a point. I hope we did. You have been listening to cops and robbers on the CBS Radio workshop. Cops and robbers was conceived and directed by Stanley Ness, who also acted as your narrator. All names were fictitious except those of our detectives, who are all retired members of the Detective Division, Police Department, City of New York. This is Art Hannes inviting you to listen next week when the CBS Radio workshop will present The Legend of Jimmy Blue Eyes, a narrative poem set to music by Ray Noble, the story of a jazz trumpeter who sells his soul to the devil. The CBS Radio workshop is produced in New York by Paul Roberts. Another brilliant concert by the New York Philharmonic Symphony comes to you over most of these same stations on Sunday as Guido Cantele returns to conduct an exciting program featuring the Beethoven Concerto No. 4 in G major with the distinguished German pianist, William Bauhaus, as soloist. Stay tuned for five minutes of CBS news to be followed on most of these same stations by the Jack Carson Show. Tonight the CBS Radio workshop was transcribed. This is the CBS Radio Network.


What's up, how are you guys this weekend? We have our latest health expert Mariana Dvorska maybe she's a Better at nutrition than I am at pronouncing non-English names, but hey since She's marketing it as healthy, you know fitness stuff. We have free reign. We have free reign to say what We why now we can criticize her because it's not like this silly thing where they're just showing you what they're doing and This is in the context that you know, she knows what she's talking about from a nutrition standpoint And she's gonna show us plus, you know being half naked in every video doesn't hurt. It doesn't hurt Honestly guys, I had another Korean girl lined up, but I figured you know, we can't do two Asian girls and raw You guys are thinking I have a problem Saab is just squeezing half lemon into the glass regardless of seeds I was about to start making my morning matcha, but I realized that I'm all out of milk So I'm going to do a little morning walk. I actually think I'm going to try Something different today. I'll show you guys what I get it We're gonna talk all about just dietary changes over the last few months. I've made Super exciting stop super exciting music Revolutionary If you know my history with PCOS and got health problems and all that then You know, I've changed my diet if quite a few times. I used to not eat any gluten any dairy I was very very Specific with the things that I couldn't eat and things that I could eat However after I kind of dealt with the hormonal problems that I was dealing with and my period my gut health everything became normal and regular Again, I wanted to introduce things back into my diet and just be more fluid with the things that I eat and more intuitive If I'm craving something I'm gonna have it the whole reason for this feel is that I got some raw milk I've been dabbling with this idea for a while ever since it doesn't look like Franky's your age meat calm We might have to they give her a visit me my Amish buddies My grandma got here from Ukraine and she reminded me of how much I used to like raw milk as a kid And how the most important thing when it comes to dairy or meat or any of that stuff is sourcing and Quality I'm gonna be playing around with adding a little bit of it into my diet and just seeing how I feel again My digestion has improved significantly. Yeah, bro. Definitely go to Erwan and support those big corporations and pay $15 for that container Look, that's that's the way to go from a few years ago. I eat gluten pretty much with no problems now I have butter every so often so I feel like this is kind of just the next step of again just broadening my diet and Having options and then deciding what I feel like having sorry with all the construction going on All that to say that I am going to make myself a matcha latte I also got a coconut milk, so I'm going to do mostly coconut milk and just like a splash of the raw milk Obviously like there's a bit of confusion and she doesn't have a base understanding of what you I mean that this is like this is silly by the way, there's raw milk and then there's pasteurized milk and Pasteurized milk is Actually safer to have raw milk can have bacteria. It's a little bit more dangerous So if you're like pregnant for example, you can't have raw milk just to be safe But if you know you're getting it from a trusted source the benefits are that this has more enzymes and live probiotics in it So it actually kind of helps you break down the milk proteins that a lot of people have problems digesting little spiel Good morning. Let's make some so The real difference between the raw and the pasteurized milk is It's like an extreme thing the way they do the homogenization and they heated it very high temperatures If you took a raw milk and you just like minimally heated it at like a hundred eighty degrees for a few seconds If it's grass-fed from the same cows, there's honestly not much of a nutritional difference Maybe you reduce the anti-scorbutic value a little bit, but you know the base amount of nutrition the B vitamins the protein Everything's there everything's there So, you know this whole big debate that all raw milk is so much better than regular milk It's more about you know Do you have grass-fed milk versus conventional feedlot milk? and then if you're actually talking about health benefits of raw dairy products It would make more sense if you're bringing up yogurt if you're bringing up kaffir kefir the very high probiotic foods that would make more sense I Mean it's you know, we're getting there we're getting there You know you have this fairly horrible concoction that people think is healthy And then she just dumped a cup of raw milk in it So so we're getting somewhere from you know We have a semblance of animal nutrition, but if that wasn't in there You know, I mean matcha just green flavonoids polyphenols all that stuff It's just toxic to your liver And if it's goitrogenic enough you can have thyroid issues to taking the stuff on a daily basis, especially in such large amounts She put a collagen powder in there probably just the regular chemical process collagen and coconut milk is actually Probably the best out of all the plant milks. It's just The brand she had I didn't I didn't look into it, but sometimes what they do is they fortify it with synthetic vitamins Which is very bad for your liver, and they also add like chemical flavorings and preservatives and then on top of everything You know when you don't go organic There's there's some chemical concerns, but At least she's giving her body some B vitamins to deal with the oxidative stress and toxins from the other foods plus Raw milk animal protein is very good for you know building tissue in the body The reason people look unhealthy, and they don't look good is because their body is composed of like junk food, basically Basically this will destroy your liver eventually, but at least you'll look a little healthier doing it Before we get any further into the video I did want to tell you guys about this necklace because I know I'm going to get questions on it I am working with Abbot Lyon on today's video, and I'm so excited to bring you guys All right, we're not we're not here for the necklace young lady interesting sponsorship choice for a diet video That's like About roughly half of her nutrition video is talking about her necklace sponsorship. That's lovely Let's see what's next Breakfast normally you guys know I love my avocado spread. I've been craving bananas lately I think I'm probably missing some potassium or something So I'm gonna have some sourdough bread with this creamy almond butter the only ingredient in here is almonds Some banana, and I think I'm going to add some cinnamon on top You're craving sugar This is like a vegan-esque dessert kind of thing although I would consider this very healthy actually because you know you have Chlorically dense sourdough bread nothing really wrong with that. You know is it organic is it made with clean water? That's that's up for debate, you know I Don't see organic on there It's probably better bread than what most people are eating But then just everything else is glorically dense, you know, it has a purpose banana starch and sugar We did do a video on how bananas can be very inflammatory. They're high in anti-neutrants saponins and all types of other stuff very very Bad for gut health and if this girl has gut issues Honestly bananas might be one of the worst foods you could eat from a gut health perspective So probably not something she should be eating personally She put some almond butter on there. I'm kind of indifferent about almond butter if you go organic on these nut butters They're okay peanut butter usually still pretty full of toxins and mold and pretty bad for you I usually sell macadamia nut butter Pecan butter hazelnut butter those are much better choices, but very hard to find if you go to supermarket You won't even find those nut butters You have to search pretty hard to find them and I'm putting cinnamon like maybe I'll do videos in depth on On these spices and what they do to your liver But if you just look up like and CBI studies on cinnamon and liver function, it's it's not good You know these spices when using them in every meal have to be processed by your body and just taking the cinnamon out of the Meal would take some stress off of her liver, you know taking the bananas out opting for something else Even if you just cook the bananas It's it's a lot better At least it's I find it so interesting how my philosophy around food has changed so much as it got an older I look back. Yeah. Well, hopefully it keeps changing. She could really use some probiotics in this diet And these phases of there's a hundred percent plant-based and then there are phases where I was like terrified of carbs And then there was a time in my life where I didn't eat any fat I avoided anything with any kind of fat in it and like my poor body Trying to send me signals with hunger cues and I was like, no, I'm not listening to you like that It's so stressful and I think eventually your body does give up and I really do believe that the more intuitive you are The easier your life will be and I know that It's easy for me to say that again now that I have been at least she's moving in the right direction You do want to listen to your body, but you also have to understand like There's an element of modern conventional wisdom that can kind of ruin that like if you say, oh I'm just gonna listen to all my cravings and go eat McDonald's like, you know There's somewhere you have to draw the line and actually understand why you're craving certain things Intuitive it's so much harder to be intuitive, but I think having these calculated ideas about what you should be eating and how much and all that is To an extent good because yes, you want to use your common sense There are certain things that are healthy for you. There are certain things that you need to have but If you combine common sense with intuition, that's when you'll be winning but if you're only using these calculations and these specific formulas and you think that that's what's going to like Bring you closer to your goals. You are only moving in the direction of Of disconnecting from your body. You have any more jewelry to sell us something nice In case you guys didn't know Cinnamon is a blood sugar stabilizer. You can add it to like carb heavy meals.  So your organ system isn't functioning Real great way to stabilize your blood sugar. Sorry if there's food in my mouth To help To help you stabilize blood sugar so things like oatmeal you can add it to coffee you can add it to toast and It supports you in that way, which is so cool That's a great idea bro just douse every meal with cinnamon Shut down your liver and then after five years of doing that when you can't sleep and your near liver failure See how hard it is to come back from that But you know that that type of liver damage Isn't something people understand or realize and it come usually comes later in life for a lot of people You know from the conventional Stan's American diet perspective, I mean this is probably super healthy, you know, I'm not much of a fan of sweet potatoes They don't digest too well You know the anti-nutrient and that type of stuff It's not really known in these heirloom varieties of sweet potatoes It's kind of hard to tell a lot of the time with all the different colors and types But just like a white russet potato is a much safer bet Salmon, I mean you're getting omega-3 as you're getting B vitamins Some people don't stomach salmon too well, you definitely want to get wild caught to avoid a lot of toxins salad I mean Is salad the end of the world? Is it organic what type of dressing are you gonna put on there? Most people eat salad because they think it's healthy. They don't actually enjoy eating the salad And if they do it's because it's a Caesar salad that has Like Parmesan cheese and anchovies and egg yolks in there But you have you know some starch in the potato This is like my go-to when I just Have five minutes to make something. I just don't want to think about it I just no effort to give to food right now. I'm going to pan fry this steak Which is fairly easy to do I'm going to microwave myself some brown rice and then I'm going to mix a group a lot Spring mix with some olive oil lemon sea salt and So, you know grass-ed beef steak can't complain more animal nutrition brown rice Some of you guys probably saw the rice arsenic video wouldn't touch it White rice much much safer alternative and even then white rice You don't really want to have it more than a few times a week brown rice is just so high in arsenic and If you're buying like pre-cooked rice like that you want to be Mindful that they're probably not using a good quality water source So it's always better just get a rice cooker and make it yourself Vegetables the greens You know why is she having this probably because she's not eating enough rice The brown rice full of arsenic is still healthier than the greens, so Video on microwaves, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but You shouldn't have a microwave in your house or apartment But in an apartment it's hard because you're surrounded by so many other people using their microwave. It's a little rough As well to have some early minced garlic salt pepper Brown rice a little bit of olive oil and salt and then my side salad and for dessert I am going to have a little bit of this dark chocolate and this mint a square. I mean Like these meals look really good I honestly like taking a step back and everything she's eating I honestly can't complain and say that any of these meals were that bad The matcha every morning. I'm definitely not a fan of dousing that bread with cinnamon could be an issue You know that the salmon and the sweet potato That's fine if she wants to have greens with it Maybe not the ends of the world because she has animal protein diet and same thing with this dinner Yeah, you probably don't need the greens and maybe you could have some issues down the road with oxalates and anti nutrients You know, how are those impacting your thyroid and kidney function, but overall look, I mean, she's got organic dark chocolate Which isn't that bad midday squares. I don't know what those are, but she has some fat in the diet She has plenty of animal nutrition. She's going organic. She's going high quality. This diet is Probably one of the best ones we've seen in general The few things that I would be concerned about for her are you know, she seems to be eating a decent volume of food I don't know how active she is, but I'm guessing the EMF radiation in the environment could be playing a big factor in that because what it does is It impairs your organ function Your liver your digestive function is being bombarded with the radiation So it can't break down and absorb nutrients in the food So what happens is you basically have a bunch of yeast candida in your stomach That's doing most of the digesting and taking the nutrients. So I think if she just wore I think in a lot of cases most people just wearing EMF protective clothing is gonna greatly improve their digestive health. That's that's a big secret most people are missing You know, you're trying to really nitpick the diet a lot and yeah, there's a few things she could do better But yeah When when you're five to ten percent Away on the diet, you know, maybe you're you know five to ten percent from fixing it But radiation is like 30 to 40 percent of an overall lifestyle factor It's hard to justify critiquing the diet further Again, you guys, I can't even begin to tell you like how fast this dinner was for me it does not take a long time and I've really been simplifying my meals. I think the more you simplify things the better You'll become a better cook for Yeah, I'm a fan. I'm a fan definitely needs to be like as much rice as steak It seems like she's still a little afraid of carbs Yeah, she's definitely a little afraid of carbs so Overall diet really just needs more starch more carbs, maybe a little more fiber But it looks pretty good outside of that. Take a quick look at the comments Just seems like generic supportive supportive stuff But I guess when you have a reasonable amount of truth to your day of eating you're not gonna get a crazy amount of viral views so Good for her. I guess I guess you kind of need like a niche or something to To promote it It's also kind of hard to promote your diet when half the video is you selling a necklace and you don't really know what you're talking about But go figure Well, thank you guys for joining me this weekend.  But if you guys do want to support me you can check out frank dash to follow calm Where we have all sorts of unique and interesting health products Frankie's your range meet Frankie's true range foods Oregon supplements Wi-Fi shielding Frankie's natural so much new stuff coming in every week guys I cannot keep up with it You know Thanksgiving turkeys are shipping out Monday We got turkey parts as well.  We got corn and soy free pastries pork share The powdered glandulars are back on Oregon supplements. We got we got a lot of new stuff So if you guys do want to support me Instead of your local Whole Foods, you know where to go But as always if you guys can drop a like on the video leave me a comment down below Make sure to subscribe and check that notification bell and let me know if there's any Dave eatings or What I eat in a day stuff that you guys would like me to critique


What's going on? How are you guys today? I'm going to show you a look around my kitchen Pantry fridge to give you an idea of every single thing. I've been consuming lately Starting with the prepared foods and then we'll go right down to the ingredients even the water I'm using So I had a really hectic day yesterday and I didn't have time to prepare any cauliflower or vegetables So I just had some white rice and some skirt steak and in the oven. I'm actually making some more cookies right now The cookie dough is right here if you guys haven't seen my vegan cookie recipe, which isn't actually a joke I've tolerated these pretty well. It's coconut oil coconut milk White flour organic sugar vanilla extract vanilla powder a bit of salt and Carob chips and someone in the comment section told me about these. They're apparently a caffeine-free alternative I either use these and sometimes I like the white chocolate chips, which are also caffeine-free In regards to the other prepared foods, I just have a bunch of water kefir. This is stuff I'm actually drinking right now This stuff has to go in the fridge because I made way too much and here we have our Vat of first fermentation kefir. We've done two or three videos on water kefir over the past few months So definitely check those out if you would like to learn more about that. But speaking of fermentation cultures This is my sourdough starter that's hanging out on the counter and ever since I did that pizza video last week I've been having pizza every other day or so sometimes every day In this case, I do have a bowl of dough here So if you guys didn't see the sourdough pizza recipe, you can learn how to do that there This is just hanging out in the fridge for a day or two whenever I want to use it It's also in this fridge up here is the steak. I'm currently having this is actually a bevet steak From Frankie's syringe meat, not the skirt steak. These are portioned a little bit smaller a tiny bit leaner And the only other thing that's in this fridge up here for me is some organic shiitake mushrooms I prefer to get these from the restaurant supplier, but I just didn't want to make a large order all this other stuff is My parents crap Maybe a couple raw cheeses in here that I give my sister occasionally Sometimes I have coconut aminos, but that's about it now on the pizza. I'll use those mushrooms I'll put some onions. I found that some garlic was giving me headaches So I kind of stopped using that and I'll also Dice up some raw steak and I'll put it on the pizza. So you basically have a mushroom onion steak pizza I put a little oregano on there. It's actually really tasty really delicious. I've been enjoying it I guess we can finish off with the kitchen. So Wipe was mighty rice is what you guys see over there everything, of course organic We have some limes lemons and ginger. These are my kefir flavoring ingredients Sometimes I use them. Sometimes I don't like these kefir or ginger flavored This kefir is just plain and I actually have to put some lemons and limes in these because I haven't done it Over there is just some coconut oil. I've been using to cook My salt and just an extra bag of flour. I'll talk about the water when we go downstairs This is my pantry because there's no room in my parents kitchen So I bought too much flour maybe we have five bags of flour Ideally, I like to Very soon start milling my own because I am consuming a lot of grains now So I'd like to buy my own wheat berries get a mill But I prefer the refined flour and if you do that, it's always going to be kind of whole grain This is just a big bag of sugar that I've been using for my cookies my kefir fermentation Extra rice back here Some organic chocolate chips that I haven't used because you know, we spoke about what I'm using now More coconut oil a lot of coconut milk That's one bottle of molasses, which you actually need to Feed the kefir with and I'm actually running low on this so I need to buy more This is the hazelnut spread which I have been having lately. I only had this maybe a few times Just some more coconut milk in there Some beef broth which I use on occasion just to deglaze some meat if I want a little extra flavor and that's just some crappy jerky I have to bring down to Work when I'm starving to death and forgot to make something. So I mentioned that kefir should be in the downstairs fridge Which I'll put away now So we have some more bags of sugar down here the organic sprouted brown rice You guys saw a couple weeks ago, which I haven't been using lately in favor of the white rice My fridge is actually pretty empty Usually I have some kefir in here. I have an extra steak Some coloteer some beef tallow And just some old caviar. This is actually empty I don't have anything in my fridge right now because I basically Bring stuff home from Frankie's syringe meat every day or two and then I'll eat it I don't have to keep it in the freezer This freezer is stuff I haven't touched in a little while. I am still doing the lamb testicles Maybe once every two weeks to keep my testosterone up, which has really been helping Pineapple artichoke french fries haven't touched these in a while And then I have some well, this is my sisters and parents stuff But I do have some backup ground beef down here in case I want some So I have three types of bottled water One is garrelsteiner, which is a high calcium high mineral German water. The other is mountain valley Quachita mountains. I forgot exactly where this was But this is another high quality water lower mineral content And I have the saratoga and I used to drink this but After I found out my water kefir grains weren't growing in this water I figured there might be something in it and I didn't actually want to pay to test it Because you know, that's all I need to know if if the bacteria are dying in this I'm not going to drink it. So I've been using this to you know, brush my teeth Wash my face and stuff and like my water flosser And I'll use this water the mountain valley when the calcium in this binds me up the garrelsteiner I've been using mostly for the water key for though This mountain valley is what I'll drink on its own when I just want water Two major health improvements for me have been the high calcium content of this Fixing a potential calcium deficiency. So I do sleep a bit better I do feel better when I have this a couple times a week and really brushing my teeth with this water as opposed to The tap water my oral microbiome health has been phenomenal I don't even really use the tooth powder or toothpaste anymore I just wrench with a high quality mineral water and my teeth are perfectly fine Speaking of oral health I got stuck in traffic for I know that sounds weird like oral health and then I start talking about traffic But I got stuck in traffic for two hours yesterday and I had a killer killer headache From the pollution the radiation. I don't know what it was. It was really weird too like I was driving and I saw a flash of blue light And I thought I looked at the sun, but then I started getting really dizzy and really nauseous. I don't know what it was but Point is I had a headache that was so horrendous yesterday I had to lie down all day and the headache was on the left side And someone commented on my channel months ago that If you have a cavity then That could be back pain that can give you headaches and I do have a cavity on the left side of my mouth from before I was carnivore, you know 9 10 years ago that I never really fixed or got rid of because it never got worse, but I don't know. I might go get that drilled out and see if my headaches go away It's possible that a lot of my back pain a lot of my headaches on the left side are from the cavity I'm not a hundred percent sure But It seems like it could be the culprit So I'll keep you guys updated on that, but that's really it for today Hopefully next week I can do a day of eating or maybe even Show how I incorporate more protein into my sister's diet, which Unfortunately hasn't been looking too good lately in my parents hands, but that's a whole different negative story So thank you guys for joining me today. You could please drop a like on the video Leave a comment down below Subscribe so that youtube can unsubscribe you next week and check that notification bell so they don't Notified you of my videos Therefore, if you can please check out frank dash to find out calm you can support all of my businesses And continue to help me provide you guys with high quality animal foods and health information I'll see you guys tomorrow