Hello. Good morning. Gregor is going to talk about how to integrate new contributors in teams. He has experience from Pearl Group, which is pretty large, as you know. So here it is. Thank you for the introduction. Welcome, everybody. As Franklin said, my name is Gregor Hermann. You may also pronounce it Gregor depending on your accent of English. I hope you will cope with my Austrian accent of English, but I will try to give my best. I'm a Debian developer now, since a bit more than a year. I'm involved in the Debian Pearl Group for some three and a half years, I think, now. And well, and I'm interested in social aspects of teams and Debian itself, not only in the code and in the technical details. Some of you might remember that there were two buffs last year in Matelblatter about packaging teams. We tried to find out, well, what works, what doesn't work, what can we learn from each other. And one issue that came up is that no team had a, well, a systematic approach or some guidelines or whatever for finding new members, integrating new members of a, well, dealing with people in general. So I thought it might be interesting to look at this aspect this year. And I hope we can do it together. This is not the talk I have to warn you. I will say something in the beginning, but then, well, I invite you that we do it together, although this setting with the cinema chairs is not ideal for a buff, but I hope we can manage. Okay. So, yes, I will start with two slides, giving a short overview about my thoughts for the next hour. And then I will invite you to join me in a little exercise, experiment, however you call it. You can stay seated. It's not dangerous or anything. I think that should take about 10 or 15 minutes together. So then we have time for discussion and sharing. And I have just put up a few topics we might discuss about so that we don't get lost completely and have a bit of a structure. Well, in the end, let's try to find a summary together. Maybe there are some ideas we have, what could be improved. And, yeah, I'm sure we'll get reminded by someone if we are running out of time, so that should be fine. Okay, so the title of this buff was Finding and Integrating New Members.  The first one is the start or beginning or introductory stage, which means from the point of view of a potential new member, that they have to find out about a team and have to actually make the decision to join it and to, well, then integrate into the team, find out how it works. And from the point of view of the team or of the other members, you could say that this stage is about finding and integrating new members. The stage two is then the regular working phase where you just are a member to your regular work. From the point of view of the team, the task or the challenge in this stage is to, well, on one hand, to support each other and also maybe to keep members, to help them from getting burned out or bored or overwhelmed or whatever. And then there's also a third phase, which I just labeled the end here, which means there might come a point in time where a member decides to leave the group, be it actively or be it just by going MIA or just becoming inactive. And the challenge for the team as a whole or for the other team members at that stage is to, well, to get to a reasonable end to maybe say goodbye, say thanks or whatever, or to remove them from the project on earlier, to find some defined end instead of just letting go. So that's the framework in my view. And now in this buff I want to look at the first stage and the other ones might be interesting if we have come up with something in the first stage. We might also look at the other ones maybe in another buff in the next step, so this is a long-term project maybe if there's interest. Okay, now what are we going to do now or what do I expect that we come up with? I think it's important to start with personal experiences. If we remember how it was for us as team members, it's easier to think about what it is like for new contributors. So we should think about that and exchange our experiences. Well, and then it would be of course great to collect some stories from different teams what works, what doesn't work. And I'm sure we will find some ideas for improvement out of that collection. Okay, now I'd like to invite you to a short exercise, completely non-technical. It's an imaginary journey if this is the right word in English. It's very easy. I would ask you to close your eyes when I say start in a minute. You can leave your laptop open, you don't have to move, you don't have to do anything.  Okay, are you fine with that? Well, so let's start. Please close your eyes if that's okay for you. And let's start the journey. Well, I assume that you are a member of a team that you are here for that reason. Please now decide which team you want to think about. If you are a member of several teams, please choose the one you're most involved with or most attached to. Try now to go back in time to the point where you joined the team or where you first came in contact with the team. It's not important that you find the exact date in your memory but the situation and the feeling at the time. You have arrived in the past. Think about how did you learn about the team? Did you find it on the wiki? Did you read about it on some mailing list? So what was the first contact? After this first contact at some point you thought about joining the team and you finally did. Try to remember what made you join the team, what triggered this decision, what motivations for applying to become a member were just pulled in by somebody. Did you see advantages like getting free sponsors getting help for your work from others for your reviews? What motivated you? So when you joined the team you got commit rights or whatever permissions, access to something. What was helpful in this very beginning? Who was helpful? On the other hand were there some things that made it difficult, some roadblocks, some obstacles. Was there anything you had to fight before being able to fully contribute to the team? When you joined and took your first steps in the usual work of the group, of the team, did you know what was expected from you? Did you know what being a member of this team comprises which tasks are usually done? Did you know what you could expect from the others? Were there some offers for guiding or mentoring? And when you made your first steps, which support did you get and also which support would you have needed in retrospect if you think back? What did you miss during this first few months? Okay, so in this journey back to the introductory phase of you being a member of the group, we have now reached a point where you are a regular member and I now invite you to come back to that confine, to cathars, which means if you like you can slowly open your eyes again, maybe shake your head or hands or whatever to wake up again and return to this upper talk room. Okay, I hope it has worked a bit to remember how it was for you. And I would like some people to just tell a bit what came up in their memories, how it was like back then. Yeah, well, however that works. It works? Yeah. I will tell you about my involvement in the Perl group. I can't remember the date but it was some, well, four or five years ago when I needed some Perl module for my stuff at work. It wasn't packaged so I wanted to make a package from that and I can't exactly remember how I heard about the group. It's maybe when reporting books to some other modules that I used and when the replies come from the members of the group and something like this I don't remember. And first contact, what was Gunnar Wolf? I don't see him here. Anyway, he might not remember. And I have recently found these third messages and I realized that that first contact was very helpful because Gunnar was very friendly.  A year later I was a very active member of this friendly group already trying to organize some stuff, change radically, whatever I had some successes and failures. So in the beginning the important thing was that you were welcomed by a friendly support and a thank you. I was very much welcomed by all my questions no matter how stupid they are or how many documentation there is on the matter, somewhere was asked but friendly, it was just great. So thanks Gunnar, you're not here but you're possibly watching the video some day later. Okay, thanks Dan. Someone else who wants to share what came up in the memory? I'm Ode, my name is Ode. You have to put it closer. And I'm involved, for me it was really easy to recall I started with Debbie and Edu some nine or ten months ago and the reason I got into it was that I wanted to find a solution for schools with diskless workstations to make maintenance here and I got to see LTSP, from LTSP there were pointers to some other projects and I chose Debian because I was using Debian. Okay, so in finding the group it was helpful that there were some links on related pages that showed you the way. Actually what got me to LTSP was that someone has removed the diskless how-to from the Linux documentation. So I went the other way to the server side. I think Debian and Edu is probably a little unique in Debian because it's not about packaging, it's about integrating other packages into a ready system. So it has a lot of structure, it manipulates the installer, it does a lot of system administration in a box. So what I felt was my initial idea was to start something very basic, very primitive and let it grow and therefore I would have had knowledge of all the components and by going the other way and adopting Debian and Edu I faced other problems of understanding what was already implemented which is pretty mature and quite complex. I started by looking at the way Debian and Edu manipulates the Debian installer and some stages I could have used some help about how things are working on that level and it wasn't readily available. But also in Debian and Edu I felt pretty comfortable, pretty welcome and it was quite easy to start making contributions and get some codes into the system. What made it easy for you? Holger. Holger, okay. So which year? Holger? Okay, so it's again about the people, about welcoming. It's a lot about the people. What I feel though that is probably lacking is structure. Structure and what topic? For learning the system, to see what, to learn about how the system works and how to get some sort of a path for learning and also for getting in some kind of... So something like an introductory documentation for new contributors? Something like that might be helpful. Yeah, and there's a lot of it but it's not always understood. There's also a lot of different, I don't really know how to explain it because there's different kind of projects. Okay, so it was a bit complicated in the beginning to find your way around the whole project. Yeah, and the other thing is culture of free software and free people who they don't really want to tell others what to do but sometimes a person wants just directions, not instructions, just direction and if for example on the mailing list you may ask a question that people will not answer because either because they don't know so they will not write, I don't know, because it's not helpful but some people get the impression that they don't get a response, they don't know what it means. Okay, so maybe a bit of guidance, mentoring in the first time would have helped you. Okay, thank you. We've had two teams now, maybe a short third statement from a different team. My name is Peter Reynoldsen and I would like to share with you some of my initial experience with joining the Debian installer team. This was a long time ago, shortly after Joey has abandoned the project and decided to spend time elsewhere, we in the Debian Edu project discovered that the old installation system didn't do what we wanted so we had to come up with a different mechanism and decided to go with the Debian installer project. Basically I was not a Debian developer then and I started just looking at the source poking around the CVS tree and hanging around on the RC channel and discussing with well, whoever was left there, I think it was Tollef again that was mostly active at the time and we started to work together on improving the installers to get the appointment to actually install Debian and I always felt that the Debian installer project or the Debian installer team was very welcoming to people that wanted to do work. They were giving access to the CVS tree without when a lot of administration or bureaucracy they would give us the opportunity to help. That was the really important thing to get things working and to actually become part of the team is to be able to contribute easily without having to spend a lot of time proving yourself worthy of the whatever cause of the project. So this little threshold for entering made it easy for you to get going. Yeah and the Debian installer team was I think the first team in Debian where we would allow anyone to contribute to the CVS and they had a few people able to actually upload packages so once a month or so the two uploaders would wrap up all the Debian installer packages like 30, 40 packages and upload it into Debian and see if it worked. Of course we had some testing, automatic testing going on and a lot of work to make sure that the changes done was actually improving the packages but still it wasn't very hard to do changes and you were expected to take risks and it wasn't a big deal if you broke the installation it was a normal way of improving things, try and see if it works if it doesn't go back and start over or fix the problems and move forward. I think that attitude in the team is very important to be able to accept new members because new members of course are new, they don't know all the horrid details of the project and they are not expected to either well eventually Debian installer is so complex that nobody knows them. All the details of that project but still it kept the low level of threshold to enter the project I think. Debian installer it's still possible today to move in and work on one specific topic to fix whatever itch you have in the installer and get that patch accepted very quickly. So the implicit message was it's fine if you make errors that's just normal and work what we do with it, it's no problem, just go ahead. I think that's very important to make it easy for new developers to not be afraid of contributing. Okay, thanks Peter. So now okay, screen saver has turned the screen off completely now so we've heard some of your experiences now and in the next stage I would like to try to collect them and also the other thoughts not only when we were new members but also from our experience now in a bit more structured way. As you see I have not been taking notes now because that would be too much besides speaking and running around. I have set up this more or less empty page on whiteboard.debian.net and I'd appreciate it if some of you could just take some notes while we are going further. Okay, well this could be topics we can discuss and I'd like to invite all of you to just share your thoughts also your experiences that you now have with new members. As a first issue that's the question about how do you get to a team where can the information be found, does it work or is there some need for improvement? In this first round now we've heard that well replies to bug reports can be a way to get to know about a team that links on related pages can be a way to find a team. Does anyone have an idea what other ways to advertise your team exists and which of them actually are useful in work? Yeah, it was quit. This is working. I have two now so you will hear it. We hear you in stereo. Okay, if you allow. This one is work. Okay, well I'm Kurt Grammli from Germany. I said it before in the talk before. I'm doing the project leading in Germany for Debian Edu. So there are some experience and let's say our tricks how to win people. Cool, that's what we're looking after. So somebody says be aware when you speak with Kurt perhaps after that you are a member of Debian Edu and I found the different groups and teams in my time in free software but also I'm politically involved in climate change and other things. Very important thing. So what I want to say, what have you done? I got involved in Debian Edu because we tried in Germany and I'm responsible for some schools and I'm working in adult education. So I had to use in the evening computers with adult person where people and students have played in the morning and the adult person they paid money for. So you see the problem and it's called Volkshochschule. So this was my point to come in and then I saw this free software possibility to connect to internet for schools. This is more than 10 years ago now and I started with SUSE or the normal German way until you hate to reinstall everything from scratch. Well, it was clear. I started to build a Linux user group as it were in these times everywhere creating user groups and this user group helped to build up a big event with more than 60 talks in one day and then we saw the installation of a German school server and there were some Debian people besides this installation and then it was clear we need to have a Debian school server. So we start to design it and then while designing there was a mail coming on the Debian list that there are Norwegian guys won a prize. Then we started to test the system but it was in Norwegian. Nobody knows Norwegian so it was the first install system in Norwegian language. But I saw the packet list that it must be the same system we... Well, then I joined the conference in Oslo and then so what have we done now for this purpose what we are discussing now? We built up a wiki and if everybody asks a question on the mailing list or somewhere we ask him, oh, could you please take an account on the wiki and it would be nice if you as first build your home page and says what are your interests in education and what you are doing, what you are knowing. So these are pages about people? About people, about the person. A short profile. So we started with about 400 pages on the wiki. We have now 4,500 and we have now 400 subscribers. They could write in the wiki and we have more than 200 home pages. So now if you join this, it's all in German, sorry, so mostly in German. So if you join and you build up your home page, it's less than a day. Somebody will ask you, oh, I have the same problem. I've done this blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we organized, we had our test center, we built up a test center where we can test software and learning and teaching together and then we have about once in a month or once, two months. We had a meeting and we invite actively new persons to come and to see us how we work. And normally every time in this meeting we learn something, we never thought that we learn this. There was always some prize and a lot of fun in there. Well, it's no time to sleep while this meeting and so, but it's similar like here. So the point of the wiki page is that you don't join an anonymous group but you know who you're dealing with. And so you see a list from the person who is active because you see the name always in the wiki and you see the recent changes and this is, then we have some pages you will find, if you give in Google, if you give Lern software, the German name for teaching education software, you will, the third or fourth hit is our wiki because we collected a lot of free software or still unfree software we like to change. So I think recognition is the most important point to be aware if somebody is new and then to contact him and to help him in the first steps. This is somebody who has to do this job. So this is mainly what I'm doing. I'm not a devian developer, I'm not a package maintainer, I'm doing something like community management to watch this and there's also some, there should not be a question on a mailing list not answered let's say three, four days. There should be a response, any response and if, well, if it's not so good public, private response, you are welcome or something or perhaps join these people or look at these people there you could find answers or such things. So this is important and let me finish. We also sought to build up a way how to become member and we look at the new member process from devian and thought, okay, well, this is heavy stuff. We should reduce the barrier. We should look, then we build up something we call new member new member process and it was German. So it was so complicated and so bureaucratic that it doesn't work because the people who has to do the work to help the new members they were overloaded to check all, does he have a mail address, does he have this, does he get the t-shirt, does he have it being at the meeting and all, we reduce this. And now you can just apply for to be new member then you wait half an year and look, have you done something, have you been at a meeting but it's very low and then we say, okay, you can have an email address, scrollinux.de or something like this, some recognition you will find it in the German wiki, scrollinux.de. Okay, let's stop here. Okay, so maybe one question. So after the people apply it's your job to mentor them, to support them, to give them some initial guidance. Have I understood this correctly? Okay, I think I will talk to you in detail afterwards. Thanks. Okay, any other experiences with promoting the team? Like we've heard it now? No, okay. Yeah, reasons for joining means advantages, motivations. My thought behind it was which advantages, which benefits can we offer to potential new members and how can we communicate those benefits? Does maybe some group have on a wiki or wherever on the project page something like, this is what we can offer you, this is what you get for free when you join. Are there some experiences in this area? Okay, Tim. Okay, so I found it really interesting when I was just getting into contributing to Debian, there's the whole, even before the new maintenance process, you have to adopt some packages and so on. And the way a lot of new contributors seem to try and go about it is following ITPs for new software and trying to get new packages on their own and then go through the mentors, Debian Mentors List and so on. And that's actually a really quite a difficult process. But when I started getting involved with teams, one of the big benefits was the sponsorship that it's actually a lot easier to get a sponsor when you're working with particular people with new people. That's something we should probably advertise through the documentation for new contributors to Debian more that actually getting into teams like, well, whatever they're interested in is a huge benefit of joining a team. Where could we advertise this more? I'm trying to think where people go to look for how to get involved in Debian. There is a web page on Debian's site, but I don't think anyone ever finds that. Yeah, that's something, how to help Debian or something like that. Yeah, but no one finds that. Somewhere in the mentors, Debian.net documentation, because that's where people end up and really emphasizing there that go find a team, because it's great. Yeah, we've heard it also yesterday in Datu's talk, I think. As far as I understood the Spanish, it would last it a lot, yeah. Okay, and grabbing people on Debian mentors list is probably also a viable way. Okay, any other ideas on communicating benefits? Yes, I think that we generally really search at saying that we need help. For example, I was observing Debian for years before I started getting involved in Debian development. I think that we need to try to send a message that we are looking for new contributors. For example, on the planet, often people talk about what they do, but not where people could help. It's something that we could use more, because people who are Debian users and might get involved in Debian development usually read planet Debian. And probably listing very concrete, detailed, small, simple tasks would make it easier than to say, well, just join, just help. Okay. Anything else? Yeah, just a small aspect of reasons for joining a team is that I think that a team should always make very clear what is the advances for the package maintainer to join and what's the advances for Debian as a whole or for the team itself to join. So that the new member gets motivated to join. For instance, the Debian Perl group is, in my opinion, very open, very accessible. It's very easy to join. On the other hand, Perl packages are very small and very easy to maintain. So there's no real reason to maintain one particular package with multiple maintainers. So it might not be clear to everyone the existence for the Perl group. Why is it? And I think the Perl group should also do more selling from what is the real advantage, the reason of existence of the Perl group. It's not just a collection, but there are some synergies that can help to maintain a large number of packages, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. So you think if it's clearer what the purpose of a group is, then this could motivate people to join. That it's not just some random version control system where everything ends in. Okay. Thank you. Good. Well, yes. We have about 11 minutes and three more topics so maybe we can just combine them a bit. Stepping stones and obstacles. We've had about, we've heard a few of them which what helps, what makes it difficult. We've had this mentoring for new members. We've had the idea of maybe some introductory documentation to find your way around in the group. The obstacle being that at first look it's a bit, might be a bit complex, all the stuff. Yeah, that's also the last one integration ways of support. Does anyone have any other ideas or experiences? What is helpful in the first weeks, months, or what would be needed because it was not helpful? I just like to stress the point that was brought up here that I feel, I didn't say it and I feel it's the most important, is the confidence of the newcomer to actually write either it's on a wiki or code to actually add his stuff in, make him confident to do that because make him feel like he's being watched and there are people to fix if he's doing something wrong. Okay, so that's what Bette has said before, that it's okay to make mistakes and that there will be a helping hand around. Yeah, I just wanted to make it clear. I think it's probably the most important aspect. Okay, does anybody accept, could have any experiences with some mentoring in groups? Doing this, that new group members? Okay, that anyone is assigned a mentor, that there are inter-facial people who grab the newcomers and try to help them. Is there something we could learn? Okay, then I will try to talk to Kurt afterwards and we will try to summarize these experiences. Yeah, mutual expectations, that's about the question, do new contributors know what will happen to them when they join a group? Should they know? Does any group have something like requirements? I mean, one thing I remember is FTP masters asked for new FTP assistants that they said, okay, you should have 5-10 hours time per week and it would be good if you knew DACA, whatever, code and language and you should be familiar with licenses and stuff like that. Are there some other experiences with such descriptions or list of requirements? Is it useful or is it maybe not helpful in the context of free software? Well, we have a description in our wiki and we looked around what exists and we found this Ubuntu declaration for not to beat each other, not to bite each other and these things, we reduce this a little bit or we reduce it to little things because we also experience on flameless, on mailing lists and so on, we try to reduce this so that it be kindly handled. The special thing in Debian Editor is we are handling teachers. Nobody else in the world has more fear to make mistakes than teachers. So it's a special way to learn that free software to make mistakes is a good thing because it's a thing to learn and this is for teachers, very difficult. So often a lot of traffic is firstly going in private emails and then they need some help to allow and to use his name publicly on a mailing list who is public saved. So every student or pupil will find in Google the teacher's name. So it's a special thing so we had to be aware of this. So I think to help somebody to get the first step and also to find out what is his real interest. There are so different interests to join a group, a cognition to spend his life in, I don't know, the English word, a more meaningful way of life. To find out what is his purpose, what he wants to do and to give him some examples what he can really do, some small shops so that he could be involved into the community. This is often needed, as I see. So it's not that you have requirements like you have to spend so and so much time and you have to have this and that technically experience but it's more like offerings what they can do and what they can gain out of it. And also this practice to make it as transparent what you are planning, what you are doing. So you find in the weekend under my name, you find goals. I have listened publicly my goals what I want to reach in 2000, 2000, 2003, 2004. And there you see, didn't reach, didn't solve, still not, still on work. So it's a kind of professional work as I do it in my company. I have goals, I try to reach them and try to... Well, and a special thing for mentoring what I'm doing, a special thing is I don't know the English word. I have given a talk about open management at the Linux talk in Chemnitz. Perhaps somebody, there is the sound also. I use this thing called in German Wieder Vorlage. I don't know what is it in English. So I have a very small system, a grown job who gives me a reminder that I should contact these people if there are nothing has happened meanwhile. So if there is something I suspicious, then I do a Wieder Vorlage and four weeks later it reminds me. Then I contact these people, what's going on with you? Why you didn't answer, what's happening with you? So a lot of family stuff and all these things. So what's coming to this all this deviant developer they're getting father, getting children like better and others and that will change a lot of life. So that gives them the feeling that you care about them? Right, yeah, this is important. But the big problem is if somebody is not able to handle with me that's the problem also. So I look for some advisors who are carefully look that I'm not only the good dictator, not so that they control me or I ask them not to but there's also bad or hard experience emotionally what you have to be aware when you do such a job.  So that's... Okay, thank you. I think we have one minute or something like that. Four minutes. So my clock is late. Okay, so yeah, do we have a conclusion except that I hope everybody has taken notes of every good ideas in this whiteboard and I will sum them up in a mail on Wikipedia or slash team slash something. Is there something, some final thoughts about this step should be taken, this step should be done, some next action item on this topic? Okay. If there are no more ideas I'd like to thank everybody for coming and also for contributing during a session like that that relies on input from the audience is always a bit of a risk because everybody might just hang around on ISE but you were really active and I enjoyed it. As I said I will try to wrap it up and maybe work a bit further on this issue. So thanks everybody and see you later.


in the territory on west there's just one way to handle the killers of the spoilers and that's with a u.s. marshal and the smell of gondates marshal the first man they look for that you got no call to haul me in so rough it's your legs real bad ain't done nothing to get drugged around like this get in there there they come I wasn't hurting him none his relatives won't look at it that way they'd call it grave robin I wasn't gonna must things up none I just sort of looking for some things they might have buried with a marshal like well it sure wasn't doing him no now you listen to me read you're a fool but that's no excuse in the first place those Indians don't bury anything with their dead that you'd want an old pipe maybe a ricotta grease or a horses tail but even so they don't look kindly on grave robin they'd have caught you before I did you'd be needing a grave by now or you'd be praying for one anyway and the whole countryside would be in danger of an uprising now you're gonna stay in jail for a while but my leg marshal it's still bleeding all right I'll have doc take a look at it if I can get him to come over here trust him yes you don't get back with him yes well but if it was me I just soon let him bleed today I would too Chester but that way we'd have a job of burying him guess you're right there mr. Dillon I'll go get the more that whiskey Sam look at the law I'll do that miss kitty but it sure ain't very good and that's the fact that's the best we can get the size of the men that come in here wouldn't pay for any better most of them wouldn't know the difference anyway oh kitty you want to drink well that ain't exactly what I come in here about but what's on your mind well I've been all over town looking for doc I guess I had worked up quite a thirst to that beard go down real good give him a beer Sam coming up cracking somebody down his shore dry work there you are thank you kindly for the beer miss kitty you should have come in here first Chester I could have saved you getting so thirsty how come a doctor's in earlier on his way out south of town someplace he said he wouldn't be back till tomorrow well I swear I sure don't know what the good of being a doctor he ain't gonna be around when you're needing to slow down Chester doc didn't go off on a pleasure trip you know who needs him or mr. Dunn turned me out to find him and bring him back with me that might hurt oh no ma'am it ain't him it's that no good Joe red we caught out there climbing up on an Indian bearing place he hurt his leg when we pulled him down he's carrying on something awful about it well he'll just have to wait till doc gets back tomorrow I beg your pardon yeah I couldn't help over hearing there's no secret about it sound as though I might be able to help my name is Milford brand I'm a doctor oh what's good of your doctor brand is it Chester proud for I do proud foot why don't you take Dr. Brand over the jail Chester he can look at Joe Reds leg all right I'll do that miss kitty maybe he'll have to cut it clean off well works a little slow Chester how long have been since you cleaned it well not too long look at it you can see that it's dirty catch right after last time we ain't too bad oh by now go what are you doing you figured I'm starting the war just want to be able to finish it if one gets started doc we was only checking over the gun is all I can don't mean we're planning to shoot nobody we had to hear that oh so you still got Joe red locked up yeah how's his life now he's stopped complaining anyway well that could mean it's better a lot worse you want to see him no no he's Dr. Brand's patient let him handle it you mean that other doc is still in dodge he's still here and is going to stay here just him huh he's gonna take up doctor in here that's what the time it why he can't do that and why can't he well this is your time doc that's why he can't oh now wait a minute ain't no two ways about it he can't come in here in his darn city suit and start drumming away you all that can you keep going on like an old woman with your quiet down on that doctor now listen to me for a minute this town is getting bigger all the time we can use another doctor we don't need no more no I don't mind a little help and it just plain foolishness and say that you don't want a doctor because you don't like the cut of your suit well now I never said I'm gonna go to the dodge house and see if I can help him to get started with and if you have any sense of all just about what you can give him a shot and give him a chance you might even yourself someday well now just what did you think of that Mr. Dillon well I tell you Chester from the way dark does left here I think you better stay healthy for a while from Dr. Brand understand Philadelphia is developed into quite a medical center oh yes indeed several medical schools there newest methods and procedures are taught now it doesn't look much like God's city oh no you'll get your hands dirty here that's a fact my office is just up those stairs that's very kind of you Dr. Adam oh no trouble no trouble at all you'll be welcome to use my office and do them have time to set up in a place of your own I hardly think I wish many a time there was somebody around to help with the load yeah there's another room in equipment doctor fits right into that black bag my laboratory travels with me well how are you able to keep up on the current studies on research well doctor not it doesn't give them how much time for study research it's too busy keeping folks alive anyway can whether it's in the book or not but maybe now it's over here and can help out with the worker I'll have a little more time Dr. Adams yeah perhaps we'd better get something straight I didn't come to Dodd city to be your assistant I intend to practice medicine in a professional and scientific manner we're sure you do not brandy sure you do I just hope you'll be able to the times are inclined to eat too much or to eat foods that disagree the results acid indigestion heartburn or gas so remember this you do you know what you come six roll pack with free metal carrier only 49 cents food taste accounts it's what it does for you that's what I'm afraid of now wasn't that bad you know you're pretty squeamish for a man of your hip well maybe so but I'd hate to know the bloodlines of that stew I just ate wait a minute a matter of their Zach will I want to ask him about his wife I'm sure that Zach Zach Willard oh come on over here I want to talk to you a minute I want to ask you about murder Zach she feeling anybody why yeah Doc she's better good that medicine we tried her must be doing the job huh I've been trying to get out there for a week Zach you tell my little it I'll be by to see her real well I'll tell her Doc but ain't no need for you to come by sure I'll come Zach I may have to neglect my patients for a while but I always get there eventually well the Myrtles took the doctrine a little different she has well as long as she's feeling better I'll come by and check on what she's doing well you see well Myrtles doctrine with the new Doc now he comes out every day oh I see Dr. Brand who tell me that I'm glad she's feeling better is that the common Kansas complaint too much dust too much loneliness too much prayer it's good to have a visit every day from a doctor I never had the time funny thing though what's that I have the time from now on you ought to do something what do you want me to do kitty lock him up throw him out of town I'm serious Dr. Brand needs talking to he's going around as though he's the only man who ever had a medical degree so Doc isn't anything more than a medicine man well does he actually come right out and talk against Doc doesn't come right out and say anything that he's too smart for that he sure gets the idea across I wish you would knock some sense into him kitty as long as he doesn't poison those patients I can't do anything about excuse me Joe Red just came in I want to talk to him much like a man who's going to stay out of trouble Joe you to stay out of trouble or stay out of dodge it's liquor the law against breaking the peace and I think you better get out of town until you sober up well look Marshall I got a right to be here I got a right to be in dodge a man's got a right to see his doctor now tell me you came in to see Dr. Brand I come in to see Dr. Brand a man has a right it isn't your health that interests me Joe but you cause any trouble and you're gonna go to jail sick or well now you go on and you see your doctor then you get out of town that's what's the matter with it it's only good for a buffalo grass that's it can do is grow a cottonwood you can dry it all day and all night and it don't never change up I swear I don't know what they'll spoke settlin in a place like this now you ought to know Chester you settled here or I ain't either settle here well you've been in dodge a good many years now you live there your friends are there I call that settled well now that may look like settling to you but I ain't about ready to settle nowhere you can't miss doing right over there next to that little solid house that man there he's signaling to us let's go over and see what he wants to the marshal nature yeah I'm the marshal what can I do for you well I'll tell you I mean much for cotton and up to the law but right now it's a choice between the law and an Indian uprising what are you talking about them poor need to go on the war path as they found out about it sure shoot oh come on mister tell me what happened why it's a grave little grave out on the prairie that Indian grave up on them poles what happened to it nothing happened to the grave marshal it's still there all right what's the trouble it's the body body yeah somebody made off with it clean as a whistle them Indians are always stopping by come on let's get back to town if you do with that body what body marshal I ain't killed nobody don't get smart with me right or I'll break you in two now I'm talking about the body you took from that party grave last night I can't be near no grave you haven't got much time read you better start talking to see for a minute can't wait a little while dark and I think it might be important that all right but make it fast with you I want to get the truth out of this man before it's too late it won't take off Chester lock him up huh I'm coming right back to you read you better have your story ready but I ain't got no story marshal even if you beat me to death I might do that too come on red get right now doc what's on your mind it's about that doctor brain I haven't got time to worry about how you two are getting a lot of listening to me man all right doc shoot but it seems to me that there's something mighty peculiar going on in those rooms that brand is set up to practice it now I know he takes great stock and being as up to date and scientific as possible that's all right that's a good thing but I think this is going a little too far but you get to the point doc all right man doctor brand keeps a body in the back room of his office body professional call on dr. brand this is a matter you'll have fun verifying each Sunday night when the Mitch Miller show brings sparkling show business chatter your way over most of the CBS radio stations I mean that you keep a body in your back room is that right it isn't exactly a body marshal it's a skeleton yes I do keep it back there it's helpful in my study where did it come from I'm not sure it's any of your business more it's my business all right where did you get the skeleton doctor Adams as a medical man is it necessary for me to answer these questions I think you better answer that one doctor well as a matter of fact marshal it was a lucky find I procured the skeleton quite near Dodd City you better hope you're lucky it came from an Indian grave doesn't it well yes it did who got it for you I got it myself marshal I took a wagon and got it myself Joe red told me about it but he was afraid to go out there again I managed all right without him that's the first time I ever heard of Joe red being smart now listen doctor brand as soon as it's dark we're going to take that skeleton right back where it came from we'll bring the wagon by and you'll be ready come now marshal Dylan aren't you making a mountain out of a molehill every good medical officer should have a skeleton to refuel you'll have to provide your own doctor brand this one is private property but it was just an Indian I don't know how you think about things where you come from brand but Robin a grave any grave it's considered a crime out here more than that you place the whole countryside in danger these Indians visit their graves and if they come and find a body gone they won't like it dr. Barnett if they came to me and ask me who stole it I'd tell him turning a man over to tell you something if I had a choice of whether to turn you when I let the Indians start an uprising over something you did it wouldn't take me very long to make up my mind so you just be ready and bring that skeleton out as soon as it gets dark we got the weapons back on all right just oh I think we've done a real nice job I don't think they meant in 11 o'clock the thing about let's hope not oh he's sitting down there in the wagon with dr. Brandt all right let's go John yeah look yonder on that ridge over there and make too bright but it sure looks like Indians me yeah and they're headed this way let's get down off of your quick chest and get back to the wagon here I'm gonna do the talking to them grave of your brother's brother too there may be new ways of doing things in the medical schools doctor but folks out here have learned a lot about staying alive and had a hard way of learning and beginning to understand that Dr. Hems good come on Matt now let's get back to town somebody might be needing this doctor continues to pass car after car in sales in state after state rambler now outsells all but two other makes come see why drive the success car at your rambler dealer and by John Meston featured in the cast were Jack Moyles, Vic Perrin, Ralph Moody, James Nussar and Howard Culver, Pahry Baer is Chester, Howard McNear is Doc and Georgia Ellis is Kitty this is George Walsh inviting you to join us again next week for another story on gun smoke


A while ago, I did a video on GET and why I thought GET needed to get good, as I put it, and wound up talking about Fossil, which is normally my go-to source control manager, or revision control system, or version control system, or whatever you use to refer to these things. I got a request to talk about Fossil, and this was something I actually had planned to do. I've been busy and had some other things I wanted to do, but I'm more or less prepared to do this now. I'm not going to get hardcore into details, mostly because Richard Hipp already has an absolutely great presentation on some issues with GET and why Fossil has a better approach, in his opinion. He's the author of Fossil, so obvious biases, but inevitably, when you are the author of a product, you designed it a certain way, because you had needs for it to be that certain way. We'll start off with installing it. If you're on Linux, or BSD, or anything like that, the installation procedure is fairly straightforward. Use your package manager. It's going to be called Fossil, end of story. On Windows, if you are running a recent enough version of Windows, you will be able to use Find Package and Fossil, or it'll say, from the Chocolatey source, there is a Fossil package available. If you are not on a recent enough version of Windows, and the Find Package and other package management commandlets are not present, you can install Chocolatey directly, although you can also just go to the Fossil webpage and download the binary there. The only thing you'll have to be aware of with Windows is, by default, the search path is a little not what command line junkies typically expect, but it's not particularly hard to have it set up. Now, in my case, I have it set up so that anything that Chocolatey and others wind up installing gets automatically put in there, so what I can do is install package and Fossil. Because there's only one provider, I don't need the specifier for provider, and then I can just go ahead and get this installed. And now, it should be good to go, granted with a very odd looking command name, but as you can tell, it gets a bit confused, but it still runs exactly the same. On say like Linux, that would look a lot cleaner. Fossil does something a little bit different from many other version control systems, especially distributed version control systems that sort of confuses some people. Fossil is almost like a hybrid of the centralized version control and decentralized version control, and it follows this in a lot of ways. One thing you'll need to keep in mind, much like with centralized version control, is that the repository is separate from your working directory. So I'm going to create the actual repository first. Now I'm going to move over to a different drive, which apparently, yes it does. Why are you, why, why, do I have it assigned to a different, it's different, no. Oh yeah, I have an issue to resolve involving this connection not being made initially. So it was trying to connect when, it was trying to move to the drive when the connection hasn't been made yet. It used to auto mount it, and then after an update that stopped, and I just haven't tracked down the error, because it's not that big of a deal, but I obviously need to get around to doing that. So I actually want to create the repository itself over here. And this is done through Fossil, I think just newer work. I've been using get so much recently, and much as I hate get, using it for all the stuff that I hope people will contribute to has caused me to forget some of the Fossil commands, but I think it's just in it. So I have the actual repository name, and what this is actually, or should be unsurprising if you recognize who Richard HIP is, is actually a SQLite database. That's it, just that single file is the repository. And it's obviously set up a special way, but it's just a SQLite database. Now you can name this anything, the extension doesn't matter. And in my case, I'm just going to create a repository for the spin objects. I haven't really done anything with them. So, but I have a test file in that for the VS code extension I was developing. So you can check that in there, and it should work fine. Should not take this long though. No, no, look, yeah, look like it went through. Okay, okay. So one of the first things you're going to want to do, of course, is configure it. And this is one of the actually really big selling points, except it's free, behind Fossil. I don't have to do anything. There's already a full website with branches and tags and even a ticketing system, a wiki system, and configuration is done through here. Assuming that it doesn't, or good. One of the things I'm going to do is, that's an interesting rendering error. I would not recommend doing this in the majority of cases, but since I am the only developer and I don't want to mess around with other things and just giving myself full permissions. In a team setting, like if anybody else winds up contributing to this, which is unlikely because the spin objects thing is not actually going to be public, then I would scale back my own permissions and, you know, assign them just the permissions they need and similar. But it's a very convenient way of managing this kind of stuff. And of course, contact info. I'm not going to bother with that. And a password, I will deal with this later. One of the other admin tasks I strongly recommend doing at the beginning, I believe it's here. Yes, the actual project name, which of course you do not want unnamed Fossil project. Yeah, we'll just leave it as that. It's not really that important. It's an internal project, so it's not like this would be something that search engines would really scan because it's internal. And that should go through. I'm not entirely sure why it doesn't go through the very first time when you had apply, but it, as you can see, did actually go through. One setting I strongly recommend doing if you are intermixing operating systems is the carriage return new line glob. Let's just do that. If you're only, if you're in a controlled environment where you can guarantee that the only checkouts and the only place you get commits from and all the editor settings and everything follows a specific convention, then you don't really need to worry about that. But if you're very intermixed, just that's going to help out a lot. Other than that, this is good for now. You know, obviously fill it out more as time goes on, but that's basically it. You know, anything you want to add to the wiki, all that stuff, just do whatever you feel like. And we can go ahead and stop that. And yes, but as you notice, this isn't really anything you can work with. So again, much like with a centralized version control, what you actually need to do is check out from this repository. Now, true to decentralized systems, you can actually have tons of these repositories exist on the same machine, on different machines, and they can all, you know, push to each other, pull from each other, all of the things that you would expect to see with decentralized, or decentralized version control are present. They're just, you can reasonably operate Fossil like a centralized version control as well, which actually has quite a bit of uses, especially when you have, say, like a team of developers on one machine or one server that hosts the repository. They can all have their working directories and then just commit to the same repository, then push out from the business onto, say, GitHub, well, it's not, it wouldn't be GitHub, but that same idea, they can push out to chisel app or wherever else. Or in the case of, say, multiple teams within an organization, they can, each team can have their own repository on their system and then, you know, push and pull throughout the entire organization, as opposed to with, say, Git, where the repository and the working directory are the same thing. You're left with, say, oh, I've seen somebody complain once that they had 32 different instances of the same repository on the machine just because they needed for the entire team, 32 different checkouts. It's a little crazy, especially trying to synchronize the changes between all of them. So what we can do for this, I'm just going to move back over to the desktop. And we can go into the existing directory and then it should just be fossil open and then we're open. This directory just became the working directory for this repository and I can show that through, I think it's fossil status. Yes, so we have an additional empty check-in. Now, one of the things I commented on really liking about fossil and just finding absolutely obnoxious about Git is the way changes to existing files are done. In fossil, when we want to add a file, it can be done through a simple add and then I can just go ahead and add the test object.  If you just fossil commit, it'll bring up the system default text editor. I don't want to configure this on Windows, so I'm just passing it through the command line, which is fine because both the command prompt and PowerShell have, what's the term for them? The command line editors, anyways. So we're not talking about the really old days where you just type it in once and you can move through and edit the message. And of course, because that's what it is. Now, even though we're in the working directory and not on the repository, because the working directory knows what repository it came from, we can still do this. The only difference is because we're in the working directory, it opens from the timeline because that's usually the most interesting thing when you're working on things. So there was nothing for me to configure here. I didn't need to set up a web server. I didn't need to set up some third-party component to display this stuff. I have a visual representation of the timeline. But this doesn't really show off what I was talking about just yet because the file there, adding this the first time, is basically the same way as it's done in Git, just called code. So we open up VS Code and edit the file. There's nothing in here at all yet. So let's just go through. So we've got the changes saved. With Git, what you would need to do is add it. What's called staging.  With Fossil, it just immediately recognizes that it's changed because the file already exists in the repository. It goes through and checks, like, is this one the same? Do I need to do anything with it? And just since it's changed, automatically knows that those changes should be committed. Now, this is the default behavior. It is still possible to do staging like with Git with Fossil. It's just that the default behavior is what at least HIP believes is the more common case. And at least with the way I develop, this approach is definitely my common case. Very rarely do I want to only commit part of what I've actually changed. So we can go through. And now remember, I didn't actually add this back or anything. So if I were to just commit that, like with Git, it would not have actually committed the changes made. And if we go and view the file for the specific check-in, you can see that it actually did automatically commit this. This is absolutely the single biggest reason why I prefer Fossil over Git and over most version controls. It might just be a way I do development. But overwhelmingly, the changes I make, I want to check them in all at once. I don't work on things unrelated to what I'm checking in. If that makes sense, I rarely wind up ever having a need to do partial check-ins. I've done them twice. A lot of commits, easily 600 plus commits, I've done them twice. So to have something like this where the only time you're ever adding a file is when it's truly a new file is just a major help. Because I never wind up with situations in Fossil where I forgot to stage part of my commit and then have to make a commit almost immediately after going, oh yeah, I forgot to add these things. Here they are. Now the UI, the automatic web interface and the fact that you can actually very easily couple this into an existing website using CGI. Just absolutely huge reasons why I prefer Fossil, along with, like I had mentioned, the fact that the repository and the working directory are separate. So in team scenarios, you can have the team share one repository and have several working directories from it. And then all the decentralized interactions that you need to can be done based on the different repositories for the different teams instead of a repository for every single developer. You can get this thing kind of set up with Git. Although Fossil has another concept that makes it quite easier to work with called Autosync, where if it's enabled, and I better remember where it was, Autosync. Yep, Autosync is on. If I were to check out from the repository I had set up and so on another machine, create a checkout based on this repository, we just set up here. If Autosync is on, what happens when you commit to it is it's also automatically syncs with the repository that it was cloned from. I meant cloned, not checked out. Checks out, sorry for working directories, I meant cloned. But it'll Autosync between the clones, which is extremely useful behavior in the typical way that at least I'm seeing things are done. I would absolutely love something like this to exist for Git because I've seen in all too often when I migrated my stuff over to Git, I will commit changes and totally forget to push them to GitHub. And so I can rack up change sets. Two, three, I've seen six before. And be wondering why they're not showing up on GitHub. I have to realize that, oh yeah, I didn't sync those as well. Now a lot of editors will have a commit and sync or commit and push button that you can press, which helps if you're using that specific editor but doesn't help if you're using the command line. And it's sort of a hack around a feature that Git would benefit from but just doesn't have. Now there are more technical matters as well for why I prefer Fossil over Git. Like I had said way earlier, Richard HIP has a great presentation on this. Then I will link to that down in the video description. Definitely check that out. It goes into considerably more detail. I'm just talking here about my biggest reasons for preferring Fossil. Show roughly how things are done in Fossil so that you can compare, see kind of where I'm coming from. Yeah, the link for Richard HIP's talk will be down in the video description. Definitely check that out. There are a lot of technical reasons as well for why, like auditing purposes and stuff, why Fossil. I would say is the superior version control. Have a good one.


So today we received a hotfix for Borderland 3 and while many thought we may see changes to Zayn and Moles because they've currently been buffed with the Iron Bear and the Digiclone, in actual fact, we saw nothing. How's it going guys? My name is DPJ and today I bring you another VR3 video. If you do enjoy living the life it really helps out and subscribe if you do want to see more. So a hotfix has landed today, July 2nd 2020 and by the time you're watching this video it's probably already been applied to you again but we'll go through everything they talk about although it ain't massive there's still a few interesting changes. Okay so today we will release a hotfix for Borderland 3 which will be live on all platforms by 12pm PST. This week's hotfixes re-ads the two previously disabled mayhem modifiers and addresses some important concerns. Everyone has had a great time seeing the community's reactions to Bounty of Blood and all the changes that came with mayhem mod with this last patch. The team has been enjoying and laughing along at all the quirky and different builds that everyone has been playing and sharing with others. We are happy with the amount of diversity in overall gameplay that came out the changes that were made and hope that it has encouraged you to revisit some other skills, builds and gear that you haven't previously and to be honest it has with me you guys know I'm a zayn man now Digiclon is amazing I made that amazing lazy zayn build which if you missed you'll see that linked within the video description I mean it's just absolutely ridiculous it's called lazy zayn because you can literally just sit back put your legs up drop that Digiclon drop that barrier and watch him do all the work for you that again that build if you want to see it will be linked within the video description and you'll see a bit of gameplay of it in the background now and due to it's still being early in the lifespan of the changes we are continuing to watch feedback and what is coming out of the community before reacting to any builds that might appear more overpowered or threatened to limit what players feel like they can play and as usual you know to apply the hotfixes right at the main menu to use that sign that says hotfixes applied okay so changes they've done we enabled the mayhem modifiers boundary issues and drawn ranger prevented the camera from resetting after closing photo mode in a vehicle in the campaign add-on bounty of blood addressed an issue with amara the siren's glamour sometimes not respecting the enemy's allegiance in the campaign add-on bounty of blood addressed a concern that the gunner class mod megaton minesweeper was sometimes spamming error in a game log addressed various grammatical concerns throughout boardland tree this hotfix it also updates descriptions on some skill cards for moors the gunner to make them accurate to what was happening during gameplay updated the gunner's molten rules skill card to include text for its 100 percent damage boost to the salamander thrower and remove the listed fuel penalty the plus sign for the damage on gunner's hammer down protocol has been removed the updated the gunner's target softening skill description to list the 50% magazine penalty for vanquisher updated the gunner's active tracking skill description to list the magazine size updated the gunner's shock hammer skill description to list the reduction to iron fist base damage and that is it guys also the changes that applied with the hotfix july 2nd 2020 but like they said in this they're still watching very closely at the community's feedback will obviously drop changes in the future just hope they don't change things too much in regards to zayn's digiclon and moors's iron bear because the changes now you'll see more people use said builds which i think is amazing and what's needed we need a mix-up we need to mix things up and that's exactly what these changes have done i believe i saw moxies and moors build which is just unbelievable but also i've seen a couple of amazing digiclon builds too thicker fillers one was absolutely amazing actually inspired me to create one myself well created my lazy zayn but yeah there's just some amazing builds and amazing things you can do now plus with the three added points we get from the extra three levels too all in all i'm super happy and i do think the changes that i dropped with this last patch the phase two patch which would have been july 25th i believe i think it's changed again for the better now and hopefully we only see improvements in the future too but yeah guys that is it for another video not a massive one hotfix wise but still changes i thought you might want here but on that note we have come to the end of the video if you guys enjoyed it leaving a like really helps out if you're new around here want to see more boylands be sure to subscribe and if you never want to miss a video upload you can turn notifications on by hitting that bell button but guys thanks as always for stopping by hopefully you enjoyed the video and hopefully i will see you on that next one