So we'll call the meeting to order and first up is to approve or amend the agenda. Is anything that needs to be added to it or are we good to approve as written? We need to add the appointments to two rivers. So you can, I don't know if you want to do it down with fence viewers. You could do it down there. As you know, we make our annual appointment and two rivers was looking for some paperwork. So we just found out who they were going to be. Same as they are now. Okay. I'll, I'll represent it. Yeah. Okay. And that's it. So add. After the fence viewer. Sure. Okay. Anything else. No. Motion to approve as amended. Okay. All in favor. All right. Okay. To begin the meeting, we have our pleasant street sidewalk. Alternatives meeting. So we will, we have, yeah. Chris Lathrop from Dubois and King as via zoom and Rita Cito is here from two rivers along with Sarah rate from two rivers. And they're going to be outlining the three grand alternatives, but there was a little bit of change.  Well, so. Are we having another meeting? I was like a little confused. So I guess one of the things was. With the original grant application. The scope was to look at. Replacing the retaining walls. Not knowing exactly what this, you know, the full. Yeah. And so what she had recommend to the project team was. Look at replacing the full wall as one of the alternatives. So we know sort of the full scope. Yep. And then the other alternatives is sort of like, you know, Partial wall replacements and then so on, just so that we can have a comparison of all. Yeah. Two or three different alternatives. And whatever the town does decide to. Select out of the alternatives, then we can use that to present to the trans to say, we'd like to modify our scope of work. This is what the town is selecting and then kind of go from there. Okay. One of the things was, I guess. At some projects, they kind of combine these alternative meetings with sort of like a public information meeting because perhaps the alternative or the selection is pretty straightforward. So they kind of combine the two, but this one is just. A little bit different enough. Okay. Depending on, I guess the wall choice. Yeah. Is that they would need to kind of have the trans review. Sort of the proposed alternative. Yeah. And then once everything kind of goes through the checking, then we can proceed with having a. Another meeting, which is a public information meeting of the final. Okay. Design and things like that. All right. A lot of emails going back and forth. There was and that's fine. It's just kind of more of like a B trans procedure. I want to do it this way. So we will do it that way. It is what it is. Yeah. So I guess before we get started on the alternatives, Sarah and our office would like to just say a couple of things. Yeah. Slowly. Everybody, my name is Sarah rate. I'm a senior planner at true of exotic creature regional commission. The state department of health has generously made some funding available to support participation of folks who have been underrepresented in the planning discussions historically across the state and who've also suffered the worst of health inequities across the state. And they're particularly interested in supporting their participation in these kinds of planning discussions around transportation. So we do have some stipends available for those who identify with any of the following groups. If you're low income, if you have one or more disabilities, if you are a black indigenous person of color, a refugee, an English language learner, LGBTQIA plus, or if you identify as unhoused, those are the groups that the state is targeting for stipend support for these kinds of planning processes. So if you're interested, there is a quarter sheet on the front table where you can get my contact information. You can reach out to me. Your name and identity will be kept anonymous and private in the process. There's a little bit of paperwork that will help you fill out information. I'm happy to support you through that. If you're on zoom, there should be a message in the chat that Teresa's dropped in with my contact information. You can also just call our office and ask for Sarah. And I'll help you through next steps. Thanks so much. So yeah, so if anyone's here in the audience and you couldn't hear Sarah very well, there is a little flyer on the table that there's a possibility of you may qualify for $50 stipend for coming to the meeting and participating tonight. So just being here is participation enough. So if anyone's here in the audience, there's a little flyer on the table, there's a little flyer on the table. So certainly take a peek at it and you can get a hold of Sarah and it's all confidential. And she helps you through the paperwork. So. If it applies to you, please take advantage of it. It's not often the state's giving away money. So. They'll pay for it in the end. That's right. So take it. So, so Chris, are you going to start or is Rita. I, unless she has anything else to say, go ahead. Okay. My name is Chris later. Du Bois and King. I was there in September for the local concerns meeting. And since then we've developed three alternatives. Which we'll be going through tonight. Oops. There we go. So. I'll give a brief project overview. I'll give a brief talk about the project development process. Share the purpose and need we, we came up with after the local concerns meeting, present the three alternatives and then open it up to questions or concerns. Again, the project for those of who weren't here last time is along pleasant street from Sandhill to the school. And the intent is to replace the existing sidewalk. And the original intent was certainly to make a five foot sidewalk. The one that exists today is three and a half to four feet. And there's, as you're all well aware, there's two retaining walls along this stretch as well that, and a piece of one of them, it's actually leaning in. So it feels quite narrow adjacent to the roadway. So the first two alternatives that we'll talk about is replacing the existing two walls, pushing those back to allow for a five foot sidewalk along this entire stretch. And the final alternative will be just to repair a piece of one of them. That will mean that the sidewalk will be narrower adjacent to those walls, either the being the existing width that it is today, or we can discuss pushing the curb out, you know, six inches or so just to make sure you have a minimum of four feet. But the majority of the project would still remain replacing the sidewalk with a five foot. So it's a little bit of project background. The town applied for a grant in 22 a bicycle and pedestrian grant and was awarded that grant that fall. Du Bois and King was retained in June of 23. We did survey and other project setups and then came and had the local concerns meeting on September, twit 25th of last year. So as part of the federal funding comes a fun.  This is the flow chart from the VTrans municipal assistance bureau. Very quickly, the, you know, the project was selected for a grant. It was the VTrans authorized the town to proceed at which point, Du Bois and King was the selected consultant. And then we held the local concerns meeting. We've developed a purpose and need statement, which I'll show in a moment. And that was submitted to VTrans. And then we've gone through and done alternatives. And I'm here to present those tonight. Moving forward in the real purpose of this is for the select board to see these make a decision on which alternative they'd like to proceed with. At which time, Du Bois and King will do the conceptual design. And as Rita mentioned, we'll come back and do a public information meeting to discuss that. And then it moves into the environmental process. And I won't go all the way, but then it goes into the design and construction. So at the local concerns meeting. I'm going to go back to the, I'm going to go back to the, I presented an overview of the project and requested feedback from the public on issues or concerns. Concerns raised during the meeting included property owner impacts. Recreation center drive access concerns during construction. Project schedule. If there was a best time to construct. Best time of year during school during the summer. Once the least usage through that area. And then the drainage basin down near the school. Is in disrepair and was mentioned and hopeful that it would be replaced as part of the project. I'll just note that of these concerns, we certainly all have them on the back of our mind. The only one that really should probably discuss tonight as we go through the alternatives is the property owner impacts because that varies with each alternative. So the other concerns are associated with all three alternatives. So after the local concerns meeting, we drafted up a purpose and need statement in conjunction with Rita and Teresa. I'll just read it real quick. The purpose of the project is to improve and enhance safety, mobility, connectivity, and safety. And we identified the needs as the existing pedestrian facility within the project limits are narrow. Black proper curb reveal. And the existing bituminous sidewalk surface is heaving, cracking, resulting in inadequate access for pedestrians, especially ones with disabilities. One of the retaining walls along the back of the sidewalk is the sidewalk. Both retaining walls will need to be removed and reconstructed back from the roadway addressing both accessibility and wall safety concerns. Several of the ramps at driveway crossings are not ADA compliant with respect to sidewalk grading. So that would be addressed as part of the project. And then as I said earlier, grading and rim elevation adjustments are required to the sidewalk. So. As it relates to replacing the walls and moving them back, there was two alternatives looked at. One is replacing it with a cast in place. Concrete retaining wall, which is out there, which both of them out there are today. Are you able to see my mouse? Yep. Okay. So this, this is the existing. The existing one. The new one. The new one. The new one. The new one was diluted in order to get a five foot sidewalk. We need to remove the existing one and construct a new one further back to get you the five feet. Okay. So this particular one shows a typical one on one. Slope, you know, to be OSHA compliant. And as part of the installation. And in. As part of the project, I'm going to talk about the new one. However. We've, we've, uh, this vertical line here. We've shown as kind of a contractor design support of excavation. But talking with our land stick, Cape architects. Um, the. We'd be excavating almost vertically upwards, you know, within five feet of these trees. And there's no guarantee that they would survive. Um, so that's one. Um, I'm going to talk about the new one. I'm going to talk about the new one. I'm going to talk about the new one. I'm going to talk about the new one. I'm going to talk about the new one. I'm going to talk about the new one. We look through and determine what the best option is here. So this is a survey. This is wall one. Which. Is in front of the. Applequist property. Yep. And this is wall two. Which is, I believe in front of the Ketchum property. That one's a little, um, not quite as high. But again, has a couple of maples. We don't believe that they would survive. Um, if this option was, was installed. So options there would be, um, you know, remove them and replace them with other trees or. Not replace the walls. So then this is a continuation of alternative one. Um, the gray here is obviously the sidewalk. Um, the green area shows kind of the limits, the impacts, uh, to the properties behind in order to grade back, um, or excavate back and install. And again, I've kind of, I've shown the support of excavation in front of these two trees, but just want to read it again. There's, there's no guarantee even if a contractor can install it in front of there or that those would survive. And then this is wall two similar situation in front of the Ketchum property. And as you can see, you know, other than the wall locations, the rest of it's mostly inside the right away and really limited impacts, um, beyond the sidewalk. And then we get down near GW plastics and the end of the project near the school. Um, one thing I did realize today is your intent was to reconstruct a piece across the street from green mountain development. That did not make it into the plan yet or the estimate. Um, but if that's still the case, we'll, we'll, we'll add that because I know you wanted, you were looking at potentially moving a, uh, the crosswalk to this location. Right. Okay. So I can stop there for just a second, see if anyone has any questions before I move on to the, the second wall alternative. Does anybody have any questions on that alternative? No. Okay. All right. You're good on this end. Okay. Well, and actually there is one, one more slide. So that, that, that one, um, we've estimated at, um, uh, it was like 715,000 with a hundred and $7,000 contingency, which is 15%. Um, and I know trees speaking with you, that's well above the, um, which you have for a grant amount. So, right. Another consideration as we pick alternatives. So the total for this one was 822,270, right? Yep. Yeah. So moving on, um, the second alternative is really identical to the first. We're still trying to get that five foot sidewalk along the entire stretch, but in lieu of doing a cast in place wall, we're proposing a precast concrete gravity wall. Um, they're typically cheaper to install. Um, they're, they're, uh, cheaper to a manufacturer and certainly cheaper to install. And you don't need to excavate down as deep. Um, I failed to mention in the first scenario, I think the geotech recommended five feet below, um, existing grade for frost protection. Whereas these precast concrete gravity walls have some ability to flex. Um, and therefore they only need to go down a couple of feet below grade. Um, still have similar, um, concerns with the trees. Um, but there is a, there is less potential that they don't get quite as close. So again, this is wall one.  So outside the wall areas, this scenario is identical to the first, just slightly less impacts across the applequist property. And the Ketchum property. And because of the cheaper wall, uh, cost of the wall and cost to install, um, we have this one estimated at, uh, just about 722,000. Clear. We cannot with alternative to, we can't necessarily guarantee the, that the Ketchum's trees or applequist trees will survive. Right. We're still kind of can't guarantee. That's correct. Okay. Just wanted to be clear. Thank you. So these were the, you know, the original kind of three was no, no alternative or these two alternative different wall types. And, and, um, After speaking to Reese and Rita, we decided to, you know, provide a third one, which would minimize these impacts. And so. Instead of replacing both walls in their entirety, just the first wall, there's a 40 foot section that's leaning. The rest of it looks like it's sound. Um, so this proposed, this, this alternative proposes to again, do a five foot sidewalk up to the wall. Only repair the 40 foot wall section.  So we wouldn't touch the wall in front of the Ketchum's or the other walls. This is just saying we're just going to replace that 40 foot section in front of Apple quest. It's leaning in just clarity. That's, that's correct. And it's the red spot right here. Yep. Yep. Dave. Any other questions? Oh, sorry. I don't see any drainage behind these concrete walls. Tipping again. This is just concept. You know, if we obviously during the design process would. Would detail that. So, yeah. And then the rest of the rest of it's again, identical. Other than the two walls. Wall locations. We'd still be providing the five feet of. Sidewalk width. And that one was a little cheaper. That comes in at about five 20. But I will say again, I, I did miss 120 foot across the street. I forgot that was supposed to be included. So this would go up a little bit. So as it relates to comparing the alternatives. We believe they all meet the purpose and need. As far as resource impacts, those are to be determined. There was an archeological. Assessment done. To date. And there was a small. Resource potential on the Shetty property. So UVM cap has recommended that they go forward and do additional testing there. That has not occurred. So that's what we're going to do. But that, as far as I know, would be the only potential. Impact of resources. As it relates to utilities, there's really none other than, you know, potentially adjusting one of the sewer manholes. Elevations with the, when it's paved adjacent to it. Private property impacts. Private property impacts. The first two are certainly at least moderate. And I had alternative three as moderate, but that's probably minimal. Same for. Right away impacts. And. I think all three meet the grant requirements. As far as it relates to schedule. At the earliest, we're looking at a 2026. Construction. Is for 530,000. Obviously this is, I'm sorry, construction estimate. So where would we, we're going to need more funds because Du Bois and King needs to obviously engineer it. And if the construction cost is 520, which is currently what we, we, you know, we're not going to have enough money within the existing grant. So what are, do you know what our options are? Yes. So other 10 projects that I manage have. Some have been successful in requesting additional funds from the grant program. One of the caveat is usually they want to see the project in a more developed way. So if they've cleared right of way, they want to see the design plans are pretty much ready to go to construction. And they just show like what is the gap and why perhaps. So I think if that, if depending on the alternative that the town selects and Chris moves forward with kind of the design. We get through environmental clearance. And right of way. And then we kind of have sort of the most up to date costs. We can apply, say for the year 2025. Yeah. For an enhancement request to kind of add to, to hopefully make up for the gap. Okay. It's usually sort of been the, the ways that other towns have kind of made it the gap. Yeah. And then there's changes and, you know, quantities or a cost of quantities or ton of jokes, whatever payment. When we. Wrote the grant. We knew the wall was going to be sort of an unknown. Right. And we didn't really know exactly how much that would be. Yeah. So this, this was kind of, I guess you said the risk of that, but yeah, I think the three alternatives that Chris provided are kind of manageable to kind of address that.  Yeah. So, so, um, Chris, if you went with alternative three and just doing the wall repair, um, does that give us a better chance of saving the applequests tree? Or are we still kind of in the same? I know it saves the Ketchum's trees if we choose alternative three, but what does alternative three do for applequests tree? Yeah, that one, um, they're not here tonight. So I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure that one would have to go as opposed to probably three under the other two alternatives. Okay. All right. Just they're not here tonight. So just in case she reaches out. So, but it would save your trees. Yeah, Dave. I mean, is the cost of replacing the trees is you scope of a possibility? Is that in this number? It is not. It is not. Yeah, we would have, yeah, yeah, we would just include it. We'd have to speak to the applequests if they wanted one. And then we could include it. Yeah, we could include it. Yeah, they might. And we could include it into the more fully designed project number for replacing each tree. I don't know. Chris, do you have any idea how much it would cost to replace a tree? Oh, well, it all obviously all depends on the size. Right. Yeah. You're not going to replace those trees on the Ketchum property. No. Kind. No, no, just like a smaller tree. I'm sure it would be more about either a shrub or.  Yeah. Something reasonably sized. A couple of trees. Yeah. So I had a couple of questions. So looking through it, I guess, I had assumed that the minimum width that we needed for the sidewalk was five feet to be compliant, but looking at alternative three, you've already had in the alternative about a three and a half foot sidewalk, which is the current width of that sidewalk there. So at that point. Why even touch the wall? Like why not just leave the wall alone? If it's leaning, it's leaning. Can't we just. Replace as is, you know, reset the curb. Put, pave the new sidewalk and, and just leave the retaining wall leaning. You're talking about from start to finish habit, the original width or just in front of the walls? Well, basically, I guess it, if, if we go to alternate three. So in alternate three, instead of fixing that one section of wall that you have at whatever it is, 40 feet or whatever it is. And you show even fixing that a three and a half foot sidewalk. Why not just leave the wall alone as it is and just replace the sidewalk? Well, it's leaning over. I forget how many inches, but you know, you're already three, I think three foot minimum, three foot is the minimum and you can, you have to have it wider than that every three. It's either two or 300 feet. I know that the apple quest wall is only about 180. So keeping it narrower than, than four feet through there is, is, is acceptable. But I guess I wouldn't, I wouldn't recommend. Yeah, I guess that's up to the town, I guess.  So the original reason why we applied for the grant was for a couple of things. One that be trans is going to be coming back through here in a couple of years to redo up to the school. And that current sidewalk right now is actually the elevation of the sidewalk is actually below the street level. So we have water ice buildup that gets on that sidewalk that becomes hazardous. So our, what we wanted to do was reset the curb, put new sidewalk in, and then we ran into the wall issues. Now we had assumed when we applied for the grant that, you know, we needed a five foot rule on width of sidewalk, but being that we don't need that, you know, I mean, that wall has been leaning as long as I've been here. I know. Yeah. Cause we wrote it in the scope of the grant. I think that may be the problem here is that we, we knew that a section of the wall was leaning. And I'm not sure. I don't have the grant application. We wrote the whole wall in the grant where we did. And now we're not doing that. So I'm not sure. Does it matter? What do you have any idea, Rita? What? Cause then you don't have to worry about tree removal. You know, I mean. I just don't know.  I think overall is going to be a smaller piece of the project. The main project is really the sidewalk and we are, the majority of the sidewalk is going to be improved to five feet. Yeah. It's just these little sections. I think like Chris said, we're going to have to double check with the trans. If the down did choose to say, you know, the wall is too much of a can of worms. Yeah. Can we just get by with just improving what we can. Right. Based on the sidewalks and not touch the walls. We'll have to see what the trans says. Cause just looking at the estimate, I mean, I would assume that by not touching the wall, you're going to see 50 to $80,000. Correct. Then to make sure it stays in our budget and then we don't have to worry about cutting trees and not cut the trees. And it's at that point, it's not going to be insecure that anybody's property. Now we do take the risk that the wall falls down in 10 years, but, you know, you actually have a three and a half foot sidewalk, but you actually, when you walk down through there, you actually may be only three feet of space. When you walk down there, it feels more like three feet because you feel crowded by the wall. Reed and I have walked it. So can we push the curve out to get, you'd have to push the curve out to get the three and a half. I think he said three was the minimum. That's what Chris Lathrop said. What's the minimum Chris three, three and a half? I will have to double check, but I think it's three feet. You can have up to like I said, 200 feet or 300 feet and then you have to have a wider section. So we're fine with that with both wall sections. But if the fifth of wall is leaning in six inches, you actually lose that space. So I think that's the minimum. I think that's the minimum. Is that part of the, is that acceptable? Right. So I'll, we'll, we'll double check in to your point. And then I mentioned earlier, we can, we could steal a little bit by when we remove the curve to reset it, you know, move it out six inches. It's, you know, obviously that narrows the road, but it gains you space on the sidewalk. Okay. Doesn't mean it. I would just, I would just note. It's Steve, right? Who has the question? Chris. Chris or Paul. Whatever one. Yeah. Anything but Steve. Sorry. So, um, I guess I lost my train of thought there. Sorry. The steepness of the wall. Oh, so in, in regards to the leaning wall, I guess one thing I would, would, um, say is like, we're going to be, you know, the contractor will be excavating adjacent to that to install the sidewalk, um, you know, a foot or more, because you got five inches of sidewalk and then, you know, six to 12 inches of gravel. So during construction, that might become a little bit more unstable. True. I hadn't thought about that. All right. Yeah. So that's something to think about. Excavate just a little bit and tie it back. There's people who do that. Yeah. That's not out of the realm of possibilities. Yeah.  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. More of an identifying. So the process is, um, I think I made a note here. Um, so you need the select board to, um, decide on a preferred alternative. Yes. Tonight. Well, you know, you know, I think it's going to take a long time in the near future for, in order to, for us to move forward. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's obvious. I mean, we can't afford alternative one or two.  Is that correct? That's what I thought. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. If they could fix the one by the personage by. Of course. You know, just skip that. So it wasn't leaning in. I would think that would. Yeah. And if they, if we can, then what we're talking about is kind of going out, you know, resetting the curb and gaining you some more width. Yeah. And, but not necessarily maybe touching the wall, but gaining some width. Yeah. I don't think that road should be much narrower because when the trucks and the ambulances and all that kind of stuff come up through there, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of extra room. Yeah. Yeah. And it's true when you're walking on the sidewalk, you feel like they're kind of right there. So, and I, I think Chris had alluded to it at the beginning. So the other concern that we had when we were putting the grant together was, was, so if you can envision now the, the crosswalk for the school right now is right in front of Milado's. We call it the. Yeah. Not on the lot side, but in front of the business portion of it. Yeah. And so the kids cross there and then, then they have to walk up a little ways and it's not really identified very well. Right. So the other hope was to move the crosswalk up. To kind of like where the end of the lot is at Milado. We have a direct crosswalk with a pet pole. There that would go to the ball fields. And I noticed that the pet pole and stuff was in. The estimate. So we, you know, want something that the kids can push. Yeah. You know, Exactly. And we talked about that and looking at what either alternative, either leaving where it is, where it is, or moving it forward by either way, creating a substantial, you know, more attention to it, to make it a safer crosswalk. So that was part of the grant as well.  And the reason why the crosswalk is in the position it is now is because they didn't want the kids. Because back when, when the car dealership was functional. They didn't want the kids having to walk through the, you know, a busy entrance to the car dealership. So they shipped them across the street. Which was a safe route. But now that that is just a lot that's doing nothing. It'd be nice to have them cross up. Direct across. Yeah. And there is some sidewalk on the other side coming up closer that Rita and I looked at. So there is existing sidewalk across the street. Cause I don't, it's not the rule. You're supposed to crosswalk. You have to go sidewalk to sidewalk truncated dome to truncated dome. So yeah. But yeah, definitely. Yeah. And where they cross. There is no truncated domes right now. So that would have to be so much. Yeah. Yeah. So definitely that was a big push for it. It was part of the safety of it. So. Can we get some revised numbers. Before we make any decisions. Having that, that crosswalk in there and what the find out whether, whether or not we can.  Take the wall out. To kind of refine alternative three. So three A would be, you know, repairing the wall, adding the crosswalk stuff in. And then alternative three B you can say it is. No wall. Yeah. With the crosswalk. Yeah. That's what I'd like to see. If that's doable. Yeah. And these, these numbers that you have here now are based on current construction costs. So. If the project isn't getting off the ground for the next two years. Right. There's definitely going to be increasing construction costs. And that's why there's like the. Right. Assuming it covers. Everything about contingency. I know it's kind of, it's like. How much can it's contingency. You know, 25%. 50%. Yeah. It's kind of hard. It's been very, very difficult to, to estimate projects the last two to three years. Things just keep going. Yeah. So does the board agree with what Rita was just talking about, that we would have a, a three A, which the three A would be. Which would be the alternative. The way it is right now with the added crosswalk. And then. It's been very, very difficult to, to estimate projects the last two to three years, things just keep going further and further up. Quicker than you. Can believe. So yeah. No doubt. So does the board agree with what Rita was just talking about, and then three B would be no, not touching the wall at all with the crosswalk. Cause he does have some crosswalk stuff in the estimate. If you look at concrete three, I mean, he does talk about. Markings. Markings, but I don't have the rapid flashing beacons. I don't believe it's going to run there like 20 grand. Yeah. Yeah. So it's exactly. Well, it's probably three years ago, a set of rapid flashing beacons were like 18 grand. Okay. Yeah. I just, yeah. Put one in for 20. So yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do we know what the old car lot is going to be in the future? I think early on it was mentioned that maybe look at limited act that's going to be in the future. I mean, if you're limiting the access there, do you, do you want a raised curb Island across any portions of that to narrow it up? And I don't, I mean, it's, it's their property and we have no idea what they're doing. We currently, we don't know what their plan is. So I don't really want to invest. You know, any money there if we can. Avoid it. I don't know what their plan is Chris. Yep. Okay. And yeah, I'm not sure they know. So we may need to consider something there as the destination. Sure. As opposed to just dumping them into the middle of a, you know, driveway. Yeah. But. Yeah.  So I assume you could do sidewalk and then a break for the. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So yeah, I will, I will reconfirm them. The minimum, if that's three feet. Or. I'm pretty sure it's three feet. I just put the three foot six stairs because that's what looked like was existing. But we will confirm that. Yeah. Yeah. And then we'll put together two kind of. Three a alternates. Great. Thank you so much. Yes, sir. There needs to be a break. All right. We're. At the end of our. Property. There's a break there. Yeah. And that's where I went. We have a right away there. Yep. And there needs to be a break there because that's where I go in and out. And. And look with my campers. So Mr. Umbrella is saying that right at the end of his property, he has a right away over GWs. Or Milado's property. And there's a break there right now. And he wants that to stay open. He parks his camper and stuff and he can go in and out right there. So he wouldn't. To install sidewalk right there. It's a. That's right. That's all part of that paved parking lot. Yeah. This area. Yeah. And it's right at the end of, of their property. Yeah. So. Okay. So we don't want to build anything there. Did you have any questions, Marguerite? Yeah. I mean, and that's the alternative they're looking at is not touching any of your trees and maybe having to deal with one of Apple Quests, but not all of them. That's if they do the wall section, that 40 foot section near her house. And if they don't, then none of the trees. If they choose this alternative will not be touched. Yeah. And that's what he's saying is that there'll be some that will be five foot and then we can get away with going narrower and then, and then making it wide again. So we would sounds like alternative three would not affect your, your trees or your wall. And now I'm just, we'll have to decide about the leaning piece near Apple Quests. So, so that probably should be changed. In the three. It's shown when you do the wall repair it shows using the cast and place concrete retaining wall. Could you, could we use the gravity wall to the other style retaining wall instead. I guess it wouldn't be our recommendation to mix and match. There's going to be, I forget what it is. It's like 20 feet of sound wall and then, and then there'll be this 40 feet of repair and then you're back to the same. So we're really thinking to keep the same. Same style. Okay. So I might have missed it, but in order to keep the process moving, would, would we be able to have the changes for the next select board meeting, which would be two Mondays from now. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Then we can look at that and vote on it. Hopefully make a decision at the board level to move the project forward faster, right? What's the plan if we don't include the wall and then the wall falls while they're excavating. A lot of tears. Well, I'm assuming we wouldn't. We'd hit our contract provisions for whoever the contractor is. There is going to be some stipulation of like, you know, stabilizing or curing the wall during construction type of thing. Yeah. So we don't know what you said. They bored. I'm not sure if Chris knows later. I didn't quite hear that. How far does the existing wall go down was one of the questions. We're not sure.  I didn't think so. Should go down a third of what the height then. So if the heights five feet should be down, you know, three quarters. Yeah. Usually a third is buried. Kind of like, like telephone. No. I think there's a little more engineering to that because the amount of wall that's up there that has pressure on the land. Yeah. A third might not be that particular wall. There's only a third of that below. That's not enough to hold that earth. I mean, I'm no engineer, but I'll bet that the engineer will tell you that if it's only down there. It's not going to hold that earth. Yeah, that's why he was. He has a footing. It goes back underneath. So it's an Allen. That's what they're going to. To match. There. If we go that route, we may have to do some exploratory to figure out, you know, exactly what's there or make some assumptions. And they'll, you know, they'll figure it out when they excavate it. All right.  To kind of repair the wall. That's three C as three C. Yeah. Sure. Why not? It makes sense. We're going to be there. Might as well look at all the options. That would have to be into the proper. It's just a hole. It's back in there. Certain Disney drill drill hole, put a plate in. You bore a bar through. You pull it back. Am I correct? I believe so. Yeah, I'll have to confirm with this. Our structural engineers, but. I was just trying to see if this. Where the utilities were on their property, which it's not on this plan, but that would be my only concern. So yeah, you'd need an easement from them to, you know, do that all those anchors, but you don't see it. It's fine. We're no stranger to construction easements. So that's fine. So does that make sense? Everybody that will do a three seed with the tieback just to see what's what. Good. Okay. Yeah. And then Chris Jarvis is right. That allows us to keep the ball rolling at the next meeting. And then we're not holding up the process and we'll have a better idea. If we need to look for, you know, More money or whatever. The next meeting three, maybe, I don't know. It would be our next meeting will be on the April 8th. Yeah. Eclipse day. Our next meeting is April 8th, Chris. You know where your tin foil hat that day. Yeah. So our next meeting is April 8th, Chris. So I would just need it like the Wednesday before that. Okay. To get it into the packet and all that. So we need it on the third. Yeah. So that's only a week and a half. If we want to get it in. If not the next meeting after that would be the 22nd. So do what you can, Chris. If you can't meet that line, we'll shoot for the next like we're meeting after. So it's up to you. You're the one sounds good. I'll shoot for the first one. Excellent. Alrighty. Any other last parting questions or. Any other questions or comments? No. No. No. Anyone on. Jamie just joined. Thank you very much. Good evening. Thanks. You too. And we'll get the current here in a second. We just got public comments. I don't see anything that's not on the agenda this evening. Anybody wants to bring up. I don't see any in person. So anything on. On zoom, anybody out there that has any public comment. Like it's just Jesse, you know, one. Jamie only two people I see out there. Not seeing anything we. We'll move forward. Thank you. Thank you. And we have Kirk here tonight. So it's falling back up with us. Let us know what's going on up. We are. For the record representative Kirk white. I'm just getting used to that. You do that in all your committees, right? I don't know who you are and why. I'd mentioned that in the legislative process right now, we're in this period that's called crossover. Officially, we just ended crossover. And what it is, is, is that all the bills that originate. In one side of the two bodies in the house. Basically have to be completed. Before. Before they before the crossover date. And be sent to the Senate or else they die and vice versa. All the Senate bills have to be done. So at this point, there are, there should be no new bills. Are rising. I say that there. I taught a class at Bethlehem University on how state government works. And the three people that showed up and joined it a great deal. And that was, and part of what I talked about was how. Officially those bills are dead, but sometimes people will. Well, amend something that didn't get taken and put it into somebody else's bill. And it becomes an interesting. Political game sometimes. Now. A couple of years ago, my committee had a bill. It was a workforce development. And a lot of those were for money, for plumbers and electricians and CDL drivers and meat pack. Meat cutting facilities. All stuff. Really important bill. And the Senate decided they knew it was really important. And we really wanted it. They held it as hostage. They didn't pass it for a long time. And so what we had to do is we waited until a bill came from the Senate. robocalls and we and we stripped robocalls out put our workforce development bill in their bill and then passed it and then it goes back to them and they have to decide but they like that or not so it was a way to force it so it's a game uh guess what I'm saying and uh and it can be pretty complicated but in general the theory is Bill's dead if it hasn't passed crossover with the exception of the transportation bill which goes for the whole length of the process and the and fiscal year budget which also the fiscal year budget is the last bill that gets passed and the transportation bill is usually the next last bill so were there any bills that have died at this point that maybe should have been on the radar or things that maybe you thought might have moved forward or should move forward or I mean uh not that I'm aware I mean and and you know those are all in their committees and whether or not they've been they've been taken up uh in process or not you know it's hard it's hard to know um you know my my committee had this year uh we had there were a lot of people with bills um but we had more bills than and historically we close to a thousand bills in the two years that were proposed at any given time you know you you passed 10% of those maybe um so uh so there's a lot of bills that are just dead on the wall at this point um I did want so and at this point during crossover the previous two years were cross uh two weeks were crossover and the first week was policy bills if they're bills that have no financial impact and uh and then the last week was the money bills and those are ones that do have financial impact where they're either either they're going to have to generate revenue or they're going to appropriate revenue they already have but one way and usually both and um and so that last week was that this week were were still full bore so we've been doing about 30 bills a day um and so it's a lot of bills to keep track of and uh so if you are aware of the bill that's why I sent a couple of you a message saying if you know any bills you'd like some input on let me know because I I honestly do not hold all hundred bills in my head at any given time right yeah when does crossover end uh crossover officially ended last Friday okay so right now we're we're just getting so now what we are getting is all these senate bills and and they're and that were and and a lot of them have already they had come over from the senate but they were but because we were working on getting our bills done to get to the senate they've been just sort of sitting in a queue waiting so now they're being worked on so when will we know if they die how will you know if they die yeah I mean like in the night yeah because I mean I you and I had emailed about the the tax yeah I mean it's how do we know we we we don't until I mean until they do it's at the it's at the whim of the chair one of the things I said my class was most important people actually in the legislature of the chair committee chairs because they determine what bills get worked on what don't and if you have a committee chair that just doesn't like a bill or it's just not as high on their priority list as as it is on yours uh it's too bad they just they uh I think we saw in the senate actually just recently uh where uh one of the chairs wanted to push through a particular bill that was a priority of theirs and everyone else in the committee is like it's not a priority we don't we don't care about this and and that that chair was just like yes and we're going to work on this bill anyway uh so it and there were senators that walked out it was it was a vt digger uh you know there was a whole article on it so so that um so it really comes down the chairs have a lot of power uh and so anytime you have a concern about bill it's in a committee reach out to the chair uh so we don't know uh the things I wanted to mention that I thought might be somewhat pertinent to to um us is a couple things one was house bill 829 and um and this is a ways and means bill and it's um and it's so it's one of those bills that is probably special they're like said there are some that get exceptions and what it is is this is the um some changes to the property transfer tax that's charged yep um whatever you transfer property to someone else um they have there's a tax that they have to pay and um and so they haven't uh they haven't really changed that too much since 1967 they thought perhaps it was getting time and one of the things that they're doing is so the the way it's set up was and still is is it's what's called a marginal tax and so what that means is is if you have a $400,000 home at you pay this rate at for the first $100,000 value of your home and then you pay this rate for the second $100,000 of your home and this rate for the whatever right so so um you don't automatically if you have $300,000 home you don't automatically pay the highest rate you just pay that on what's remaining um so what there the plan is to do is is to reduce the bottom rate uh well well actually not to reduce it but to expand it and so um right now it's 0.5% on the first $100,000 of the value of your home and what they want to do is expand that to the first uh $200,000 of your home so if you're transferring by the way the transfer tax is paid for by the person who's receiving the home not the seller the sellers the sellers don't don't pay anything for this similarly if you just give your land to the your kids uh you know the if they aren't paying then there's no right and and there's been some concern they there were some questions around whether or not it taxes you know uh for for farmers and they pass the land onto their kids there are there are exceptions for those people there's all sorts of exemptions and things in there but the idea is if you sell your house to someone that usually this amount gets tied into their mortgage they pay in um so anyway the 1.5 rate uh goes from the first $100,000 of your house to the first $200,000 of your house um and and so that the idea is that for people who have a modest house under $200,000 which it's getting hard to find a house under $200,000 but if you find one uh they're paying the absolute bottom rate so the property tax transfer on a $200,000 home is $1,000 um so that's the the plan for that um for the the over $200,000 your property transfer tax is 1.25 percent um and and that is still through right now it's currently uh anything over 100,000 is 1.25 but they're now it's over and then what they've done is and so ultimately if you have a house that is pretty much under a $600,000 house your your transfer tax will go down if what they did though is they added another rate at $600,000 house that's 600 if your house is $600,000 or more then the then you get hit with a 3.25 transfer rate for anything over the 600,000 and um and that the idea is that lower income and middle income people there there's will actually go down but the people that have higher they'll have to pay more um this has proven to be tremendously controversial in the legislature um and um I attended a meeting last night at eight o'clock um in case you think the legislature's only a weekday thing um and uh and there were it was uh fascinating to watch the the people in uh the moille county saying well $300,000 house pretty nice house so 600 makes sense that's a you know and the people in chitin and county saying you know I have a I have a lot of really super modest house and it's a $650,000 house and uh and so um so the arguing between the chitin and county folks and the non-chitin and county folks was really fascinating and uh so yeah I don't know where that bill is going it's probably going to come up maybe this week uh to make that change or it might not it may may actually die if they can't get enough people to support it but I thought that was a an interesting thing and also to give you an idea how these things work and how they're not always just a whole bunch of people saying yeah let's raise taxes on everybody uh well I think it I think it's good that they're having that discussion because you know it's so often all we hear is you know we always talk about income based right everything's income based and we fail to realize that sometimes just because your income is higher you might be in a higher cost area of the state right so $600,000 in Bethel is a nice house right $600,000 in Colchester is is a small little house yeah and we talk about the same thing with income you know I mean $40,000 in this town might be a lot but $40,000 in Burlington is not a lot of money you know so yeah you know we always get hung up on that yeah so there's a lot of love there was a lot of heated discussion around all that uh allegedly according to the data which the representatives from chitin and county disagreed with but the data collected by the state um housing folks uh said that the average home cost in chitin and county is $454,000 uh so uh so the ways and means folks when they were putting this together they were thinking well $600,000 a sizable bump above that um but uh but the chitin and county folks were saying now it needs to be 800 to a million if you really want to hit the the high end of properties so I don't know but I thought it was an interesting uh yeah well everybody gets hit if it's over 600 I mean and the 800 or million yeah whatever that is it sounds like it's the first 200 is this and then that's this and then it's that so it's kind of a graduated it's graduated and so so they you know on the lower end yeah we're saving money uh and that was sort of the idea was was to to shift it that people have a $200,000 house are are going to save money uh and uh and uh or 300 or a $400,000 house going to save money but if you have a $600,000 house you're going to feel it uh so we'll we'll see we just need to educate people on not transferring it to your family instead there's other ways of moving your property without paying well if they do if you transfer it to your kids and stuff there's not a there's no trust you can do all kinds of things with that and there's a lot of ways they have to yep exactly and and so actually both these bills I'm talking about today I I mean uh I think I mentioned I think to Therese was that uh the briefing that the legislature gets on the bills that are going to be dealt with this week happens Tuesday uh and so so I you know I I don't know as much about these bills as I will tomorrow at this time but uh so I'm I'm going from what I what I can glean the other one I think that's interesting is there's a Act 250 land use modernization act which they're trying to get through uh this week as well um 128 page bill um and it rises out of three studies that were commissioned last year from the natural resources board the regional planning commissions and department of housing and community development and and but it created three three different reports that were all designed to then blend together and work together to come up with with ways to uh basically start to make Act 250 less of a a nightmare uh honestly um you know having a creating a professional board that oversees the administration of it so you know to try and streamline some of that stuff um you know moving this from size of project being the determination of its the jurisdiction toward uh a system of jurisdiction which is determined by location and so some of that is um they're planning on reworking the downtown designation process uh right now there's three levels of downtown there's downtown and I remember the what the three levels are um the village I know there's just two the village in the downtown the village downtown in neighborhoods oh that's right yeah and uh and so basically really streamlining that down to just basically really just two um and uh creating only two categories while simultaneously creating three financial benefit levels that's tax credits uh for public investment uh working upward from towns with limited planning and zoning uh that's also another thing is is basically uh part of this is if these towns don't have their own zoning then then uh the Regional Planning Commission will sort of come up with a a hypothesis of zoning that that town would would use and basically say this is what we this is how we think that you're probably going to be controlling the things in your in your town uh so that's also a bill that is coming through I know there's uh I know there's at least one amendment to uh also stream streamline simplify and create a study commission on uh uh how to make Act 250 more uh wood product friendly wood product industry friendly right now Act 250 is really rough on loggers and and wood product processing businesses and we have some around here certainly in northeast kingdom those are large pieces of their economy and so they're they're trying to to think about how to make those kind of pieces work better there's I know there's at least three or four amendments coming through to this bill uh and we'll see how it all plays out but they're working on it um part of the idea is to uh uh here we go here's a little note uh the idea of the 250 thing is to relax jurisdiction in parts of towns and villages that need certain prerequisites and it creates automatic jurisdiction when critical natural resources are involved so um uh so while it's not a housing bill per se it builds on the last two sections by relaxing regulation for housing in scent town centers and idea of setting the stage for the creation of vibrant walkable with brand new sidewalks uh downtowns uh and so that's the idea is to try and encourage and make it easier for people to develop in a town area uh so those are the the two main bills I want I I sort of thought to bring the other piece I wanted to bring up which was which was because I know some of the folks in the in this room uh care about uh uh the way our school boards are functioning and the funding behind property tax and I know that there was even a discussion around around private schools versus public schools uh and the uh just in case you want you're aware the governor has a point has proposed an appointed secretary of education uh who has a long history in the privatization of schools so if you are not in favor of privatization of school or your public school money going to private schools uh you should the senate has to confirm that person so I'd recommend you you lean on your senators soon and often and hard so um and I just wanted to throw that piece out because it's a it's a thing that can travel under the radar if people aren't looking so any other questions what she is a second going to be a secretary not a commissioner right she's what she'd be education secretary not education commissioner she'd be secretary of education I believe that's the title um and um yeah and so that's who you'll want to reach out for um do you have any other questions I can do my best like said I don't have no no other bills on funding education funding so what no more other bills concerning education funding no other bills that are doing what we're funding anything education oh education funding um yeah oh I mean they're they're they're still working on all that um and and that's stuff because because because education funding is a ways and means it's a it's a one it's one of those special bills um because and uh and so yeah I do know that that committee is working working really hard on trying to to figure out different ways to fund fund um you know public education um also they're trying to look into funds and I think there may be a bill coming through that that um to try and help with school construction and repair um because that's another big expense that that schools are facing they're they're they're working on it they're um yeah right right now these last two weeks these are there that was their big crunch period and so um because they had to process everyone else's bills not their own uh and so uh now they're now they'll be back at that a little bit I I saw the chair of the uh ways and means committee uh which again as a reminder ways and means are the people who figure out revenue sources that would be often taxes and fees uh that that come into the and grants um that come into the state and and then appropriations are the people that pay out so uh ways and means are uh are often the people everybody yells at um and uh and they're they're working they are working on it and and they sure sure look worse the wear and tear last night uh in that meeting they were I I have a comment that it's been irritating me for years is the fact that ways and means they're always out there looking for more money and usually that uh translate to more taxes and my household and everybody else's household here if we can't afford a blow for bread we have to cut expense we don't go look to see who we get more money from do we have a ways and means reduction in cost come committee well I mean what ultimately ways and means their job is is to try to so it's a it's a I'll own my part of all that which is that every legislator there if if they pass a bill that that has funding as part of it then that becomes part of the the money that the ways and means the ways and means looks at and says all these committees say we need x amount of dollars our job is to now try and find those dollars and if they can't find those dollars then you know so they try and find the dollars but then it goes through appropriations and appropriations often says yeah I know you asked for I don't know 10 million dollars but really we only have three um that's all ways and means can raise so you get three um or maybe you've said you need 10 in order to do it otherwise otherwise it's not worth doing so even though that committee pass it bill that says you're going to get 10 million we're giving you nothing uh and so uh and so that bill is basically dead uh even though it passed but it's dead until someone can find funding and and they may never find funding or they might three years down the road say oh hey here's a vehicle fund that uh so it's uh it's a sedans appropriations not ways and means appropriations the people pay out so they're ultimately appropriations are the people who decide what bills that have been passed how much money they get if they get and uh the appropriations committee has one representative to each of the called policy committees uh you know like mine uh commerce and economic development so we have one member of the uh uh appropriations committee who works with us and's trying to look at what we what we have and also gives us feedback when we say hey we'd like a bunch of money here and and he says you know we only have this much as a as a pot so so think about how much you want to get out of that pot because all these other committees are looking at that same pot so if you know so don't don't think you're going to consume at all so they're they're trying to give feedback to the committees all the time and sometimes the committees listen and sometimes the committees are like nope i'm going to go for going to go for for the gold and uh and then and then it ultimately comes back to the appropriations appropriations says like you went for the gold but you aren't even getting bronze and uh and you know and that's just how that works so okay yeah i don't know what i yeah so understood that exactly it's it's a it's a fascinating process so any other questions or anything all right well thank you for the opportunity and and and i know i'm doing these now the the second meeting of your month of your meetings of the month which means we've got april and may uh and then because we'll close we'll end the legislature by in the middle of may uh and uh so i'll be back for those if you know there are bills that you want me to talk about when you know beforehand uh all of you uh i didn't think of it till like last night and i sent a message to chris and teresa saying hey anything you want me to talk about but if you are aware of ones that you want me to to address give me give me a little notice and i'll i'll get i'll i'll message people and look them up online and see what i can figure out so i can give you uh informed answers so yeah great thank you thank you all right we have um we have our first and third class liquor license for a locus creek store and a second class liquor license tobacco license and toasters has the first i'm sorry oh yeah get it backwards so first is first and third class liquor license for toasters and then a second class liquor license tobacco license and tobacco substitute endorsement for locus creek store yep all in favor hi all right and bethel historical studies request to hold a coin drop on the 18th of may let you know i did get um joanne marshall sent me their proof of insurance today i will have to say that's one of the best drawings i've ever seen of what's gonna happen i know don't think i should me but yeah so um i had written in there the motion to approve once proof insurance is submitted but i did receive that today okay all in favor and then we have some appointments to be fence viewers so we had stan capron brad andrews fred griffin i don't know don't ask me ask paul you should be a trench viewer yeah not anymore not anymore hey picked them out do the fence viewers get in do they have to go look at walls and sidewalk they have had to go look at something before yeah like not walls are just just two or three in the past couple years if i go settle try to settle boundary issues yeah well just um so if everybody's good with that just need a motion to appoint so moved second okay all in favor all right all right we also added in the one for representative for two rivers and if i understood kennelly's email correctly that gene kraus will remain the representative and you will be the alternate so must be you had a conversation with gene excuse me she had not heard back from gene so i emailed gene and he said yes i'll continue okay and i've been the alternate yeah you have okay so basically it'll remain the same that gene will be the first and you'll be the alternate yeah okay and that um bill hall is going to continue as the transportation transportation yeah okay okay so we had motion we had second all in favor all right and then we were talking about the last meeting there now that we have the sheriff's department doing some trolling what do we do with our constable vehicle um so i gave you the information i had and it's a little tricky for me at cars but i i assume that i had the right model because i was looking i knew it was a by looking at the um the title i knew that it was an eight cylinder so i'm pretty sure i figured out the right the right one and um so i just given you the information obviously if we were to sell it to a non-police agency we would not sell the additional well we wouldn't sell the equipment we would do something else with that yeah so we haven't decided so you haven't put it out there so we have no no interest yet no i haven't done anything we know that the sheriff's department is interested um that much we know um because they have said they were and i think that um in a past email that oscar might have had somebody that was interested in it and but again if they're not police well what i gave you was the kelly bluebook information and that would be for you to decide i just told you what i had yeah i said this is what the value ranged and then what's with the median price would be out of those two numbers plus 1500 equipment and and i just told you how much we paid for it and i'm estimating the miles because 164 last time i spoke to oscar it was 167 14 but that was a while ago so i'm just estimating it 164 000 and um but as i said we paid 11 grand for it in february 2021 you had to look at your crystal wall how long do you think we would keep it if we how how long do you how would long would you say and we're going to be staying with the sheriff if you want to look at your crystal ball and say i think yeah i mean i think you're just going to find like we've talked about this that it's going to get harder and harder for towns to do their own policing yeah especially small that car is going to sit for a year yeah you're going to take that number that you gave here and just cut that into a quarter and hope well it's going to need all the work done to sell it at that point yeah i mean right now breaks and he is yeah so we're going to have that car right after that so we're going to have to decide where to put it or what to do with it is the oscar driving we're up in car now mostly mostly uh and we have no place to store this car i don't have any room at the town garage or we just don't have a place to store it so i think yeah occasionally but yeah we just don't have a place to store it would make sense to sell it i mean i think the only caveat that i would have to it is that that we take the proceeds and we put it into the cruiser find yeah and at least let's get two three years or so under our belt yeah see if everything goes smooth because if all of a sudden well you know how it is i mean the board could change and all of a sudden someone want all it takes constables all it takes is someone to move into the area that might have a law enforcement background and say i'll be the constable right and then everybody's like yeah we want the constable right so i mean we have the cruiser fund now i would say my vote would be you know why don't we sell the cruiser um and then put the proceeds into the fund and leave it there um and then you know i was kind of looking at what you had sent out to us and i was thinking like nine grand probably sounded like a plus the equipment you know i mean my guess is you're probably gonna get somebody that wants to buy it for personal use yeah so you'll probably have to take the equipment out and whatever i'm gonna do that but i guess i could see what's there was some of it was a radio i could see if the fire department wanted someone will steal it so do you want me to put out for sale or do you want me to just try to deal with the share first and it's it would give us what we're asking for that makes life really easy does all right i'll reach out but i but i would suggest that if they want to purchase it outright from us that's fine yeah but i wouldn't want to get into swapping no i don't want to swap ours i don't know how i'm gonna ever be cash in hand or yeah i don't know how to figure that out so yeah i'll reach out to him first and see what he's thinking yeah i mean and then if somehow we don't get any takers on it then maybe we need to think of what else we'd like to do with it but okay um i just realized that jesse uh no one had a message in the chat asking what a fence viewer is and so i didn't i'm sorry i didn't get see it until just now so is that you jesse want to know what a fence viewer is yes so actually one of those positions that's been around a long time and they actually go out and if there's a dispute with your neighbor over where your fence is to be on your property line they actually can go out and take a look at you know where the markings are for your property whether or not you've had a surveyed and they take a look as to whether or not um offense should where offense should be placed or if it is placed incorrectly they can they can make you move it so onto your own property if you've you know encroached on your neighbors amazing thank you you're welcome okay so it sounds like we're we're all in favor of this so i'll reach out to the scene if we can sell it and we'll put it in the cruise of fun and go from there and we just don't want and uh yeah i might get it out before then and try to look for the median price or nine as our bottom kind of seemed like looking at what you'd given us nine was kind of the number i guess all right the motion do we need the motion to sell it um yeah yes you have to authorize the sale yeah Dave sorry okay all in favor all right yeah you guys are the only direction yeah exactly we'll skip over the next one yeah right it looks like you're gonna have another appointment coming up i just got an email from eric web at the end of the day um i think they found somebody else to join the planning commission so i'm not going anymore so i can accept it or not no oh once you became slack work now you just became an exit yeah yeah even though i don't live in Bethel i actually can be on the planning commission right but you have enough members now yeah all right so just uh motion to accept the resignation into the planning commission for tress thank you for your years yeah i do enjoy it but it's just too much and they got a good group in a second okay we did have a second all in favor don't worry i got other things there's another great flip okay i'm building the arc right now we're gonna start pounding them yeah no um and then um you know it is that time again to um start the negotiation process with make a sound with the town manager so now um although you should see my demands so the process so um it's i think it's september 15th right is that how we drew it up before so we'll contract this October is that time or 30th then um have you until oh i think it's like october 14th or something i can't remember sign something like that but anyways we have some time so what i wanted to do is like in the past well at least the past two i've negotiated with you so i just wanted to get um the select board to allow myself to enter negotiations with tress and talk about an extension there so we have we probably won't talk about it for a month or two it's just so that when the the light hits us we have some time that we'll start kicking around things um i mean the ideas to bring threes back so um as we did a i had a so just so jordan knows i had a three year which i served and then this and then i want i asked for a two year that was a big negotiation was a two year and we changed some language in my contract only because when we get our time off in january made me in violation of my contract because i had too much time off so that's the only thing we changed in last year's contract was we made a two instead of a three and we just fixed that so i obviously wasn't violating the contract with time off um so four now no i think two is good i mean and again as we found out with one town manager that we had is you know if you have two three or six year contract they can always break it well and there's a there's a caveat you know there's small consequences but yeah and and honestly it's i believe i had to give you which makes total sense was 90 day notice if i wasn't going to um to renew and um so kind of the deal that happened to therese right now is the the process for the the whole town manager uh process we have seen over the years is about a six month process oh if you're looking for a new one yeah so imagine so um so what we talked about at the last time was you know that therese would give us kind of the wink nudge in february on kind of what she was thinking for september that way if for some reason she didn't want to renew then it gives us that kind of six months or so process to get started um so so um yeah so i saw things i want to do so the idea right now is you know between now and like a goals september her and i will kick it around a little bit and then get back to you guys in september at some point to okay one favor and then um as we had talked about at the last meeting was um you know it'd be nice to kind of for us to select some goals for our board you know one it makes it really easy at town meeting um to you know kind of write up the blurb on what we did this year um in this case we can kind of compare it to this is what we wanted to do and this is what we did you know which and you know the goals a lot of times are things that you know a true goal or something that usually you don't really quite achieve like you almost get there but you haven't quite got there yet and so if you pick easy goals then we're really not really helping anybody but we kind of want to you know i don't know i mean there's some things that just need to be handled and it's just i'm i know and some of these i'm just not going to have time to handle them so i mean whether long-term goals or short-term or maybe you end up with a mix of both and i know dave said no because you were doing aren't you working on the state estate committee about school tax isn't that what you said it to trying to i haven't had a lot of luck about they're not sure they really want us low life outsiders talking to them we don't we don't play the game we don't play the games yeah a lot of the people that i want to be with don't play the games yeah yeah so i think i knew you were i think the idea would be i am working for us to have these goals that either as a select board we can work on together or maybe we have somebody on the board that really would like to head up that goal for the year yeah or in some cases it might be a goal that we have that trice can help us with yeah i did talk to trice last week when i was in there doing um payables and she mentioned starting to work on some ordinances so she printed off for now for me or whoever um like the traffic ordinances yeah because that is one thing that we talk about is looking at policies and ordinances and this is one that needs to be dealt with um i've talked to the sheriff's office about it they're willing to do give some assistance too and so i think i mean that's that is a long-term goal because obviously it takes a while to get through policies and ordinances but certainly i gave her the traffic one because that seems to me to be the one we need to deal with first for me ordinance policy what's the difference so ordinance is more like a town law whereas a policy is just a practice or a policy we try to adhere to but an ordinance is the one where we have to have all the public hearings and you have to have the notice and you have to have it warned yeah and you do that yeah that's right regular meetings but an ordinance is just like when we amend zoning ordinances or things like that there's a public hearing and you have to have it in the newspaper for so long and you have to have it posted and then once you vote on it you can approve it but i believe it takes 30 or 60 days before from your vote until it comes into effect because people can we want public vlogging and take a while to get that it might take a minute or two right through if you make a quick one fly through but if you make an ordinance it's going to take a minute yeah and we had done that one not long ago but trash ordinance needs to be revisted with the attorney which is like well member we need to make a change and i have to get back to the manure piece i got to talk to our town attorney david ru yeah so but you have a binder full of ordinances and a binder full of um policies and richard and i have been talking about we have to update the water sewer ordinances and so there's it's it's a long process and it would be nice to have a select board member you know spearheading it that has so would it be easier to it sounds like there's more than just one ordinance so would it be easier to say updating ordinances and policies yeah and then and then you know at the year end review we can say here are the ordinances that were updated this year or here's what we're going to work on for next year yeah right exactly we're still exactly right but it's it's a goal and you can clear some of them you'll get done i mean it it'll take you a while to do the traffic ordinance i could take a few months but or do we want to just say we're going to specify a certain ordinance that we want to work on well you could do the traffic start with the traffic ordinance and you could do traffic solid waste um i'm doing the personnel policy right now so um so traffic and solid waste ordinances yeah or some boom trash traffic and trash gnt oh i thought the solid waste was a trash one yeah i just don't remember what we called i think we called it trash ordinance or trash what are you allowed to change with traffic without the state basically it just talks about it really clarifies where your stop signs are where your yield signs are that type of thing because and what your speeds are in a certain road because when the sheriff if he goes to pull someone over and the speed limit is posted incorrectly somebody fights their ticket you're gonna the sheriff's gonna lose so you have to make sure that where that the roads are posted per correctly per the statue now you're right as far as we're not going around lowering speed limits because with the current legislation if we you can't change a speed limit without a speed study maybe i've explained that to you and and yes exactly they almost never change them so and they and besides which is yeah and it's it's crazy they'll get back to me like oh looks like people up on but then we did find that it was yeah i think so yeah and that's part of that thing with ordinance and yeah and so that's a perfect example of the you know making sure that we and is there a speed sign where we said there's a speed sign making sure that there's actually one there doesn't need to be put in or you know it's something need to be doubled may they call it um double gated so it's like two one sides that type of thing so some of it's just i don't think it's been looked at since the 90s so i i know one thing i wanted to work on that i would be more willing to help do is is establish a gravel roads maintenance plan for for our town just like you know we the most common practice is to have a paved road inventory you know because it's kind of easy to figure out when that but but at the same time well we need to do the same thing with the gravel roads and you know you know what is the life cycle of a gravel road and when do we need to add more material are you going to talk about the proper properly built gravel road also well i think you know that would be because we have we have we already we've passed up taken over a road because it wasn't built according to state uh specs to be across the road so we said either you spend the money to make it a class free road or we're not taking it over yeah that's it makes sense because they'd have to build it to a a 76 standard so i mean certainly be something that reference to be part of it i'm asking well i think i think the start i think two star anyways would be just to categorize our roads and what is the condition that those roads are currently in so when's the last time we added a significant amount of gravel or not so the easiest way to do it is you go and you survey your roads and you break them into red yellow green so green is you know maybe something that we did in the last few years that's got some decent gravel to it yellow might be something that it hasn't really been touched in a while that's okay and then red is you know we've been grading nothing you know there's no gravel left we're just grading you know that and then just kind of start with that so that we can start to say you know um so for instance with gravel roads a gravel road should be the the life cycle of a gravel road before before adding more in materials about seven years is what some studies i read on where a paved road is like 12 years so so it would be like building that life cycle of the gravel road so like a seven-year life cycle of that gravel road so that and to help the public works department understand where they would be at in that cycle so we you know maybe break it down into quadrants of saying okay here's the christian hill quadrant or here's the liliesville quadrant or here's the you know gilead quadrant or north main or whatever you do it and then and then we can kind of then then we can budget it like are we budgeting enough gravel or we're not budgeting enough gravel and if if we're going to break this to seven years that we need so much product every year and we'll just kind of and divide it like we do for floods just and then we can categorize you know especially this time of year where our problem areas right some areas have some significant problem areas right by Dave's house and if we have those problem areas those will be things that the next time we go to gravel in that area maybe there's a make it up maybe there's a 200 foot section that we need to excavate out and put some fabric down and put some gravel on because or or or maybe we need to fix some drainage in that area because it's you know not properly done so that I think that's something that we've kind of needed to do I think so makes sense yeah this was done back when Mo first turf got on the board they did that back in 84 85 and then that kind of just got yeah so I agree yeah that's it sounds like a lofty goal too yeah you know because the hard part in in my mind is you talk about inspecting your road when do you inspect it because the and I'll go back to me I have a spot on our road that I don't need some work but you wait another month to look it's beautiful right you don't look at a month ago you'll never know how bad that spot is I think this might take us a year or two to do just because you want to survey your road at different times in the year so when you're actually doing maintenance do it in wait spring right then you can talk about like do we have enough material to grade or regrading proper material or you know late March April we're talking about where are the problem areas that right you know are just soup that we need to fix or drainage areas and I think one of the bonuses of Chris and I both having to deal with the 2019 flood and the 2023 flood is we we know what areas we've rebuilt and and Morgan has a map of and he kept up to date of where he replaced culverts and so it's going to be you know kind of a formulation of least we have some good intel right now between the four of us you know AJ Morgan Chris and I and and certainly from two rivers so we have been tracking like where that stuff went and you know culverts things so it'll be helpful we know what lasted what didn't last you know that type of thing yeah so we got two yeah so I'm gonna be working on the human service oh yeah human service advisory trying to analyze excuse me to try to analyze the whole process and see if we're hitting the right targets if we want to hit targets at all you know and maybe we don't want to have go that route for appropriation so I've already already got a couple of ex select board members that are interested in and three other lay people that are interested in coming into that group to talk about that so you talk about more kind of investigating like do we have enough appropriations in that or excuse me well it could be everything we could say well you know why are we doing appropriations streets broke up a good point the other day why are we doing that if you want to give to the american red cross or if you want to give to whatever they are you do it as a private citizen I'll get you know we in effect telling the taxpayers you need to support this particular group you know I've been doing some research about all the surrounding towns and how they handle theirs and it's quite different they all have a different way of handling it so just kind of bring all that out and throw against the wall and see and see what happens so it's good to look at the statute and see exactly what the statute says there about it I mean so instead of the yearly meeting you'll have some every month every quarter or something to well yeah we'll have you know several during the year to to and then have each each person kind of go out and do their part of the research and bring it back again yeah just see and then we can present it to we can present it to the select board and say okay is this you know we want to modify you want to change you know how we're doing it oh no we need another $50,000 because you know we think we need more right whatever so so that services some of those organizations are 5.01c so they're 5.01c yeah so if it's going to cost me $20 in tax that's I gotta give you 20 bucks but if I give it to them right it's a tax deduction yeah for me works out better yeah in a way I'm proud of that I was thinking about on the way back from the I wrote back the detree from town meeting and I said that we were her and I were discussed again like some people give to their churches some people have their certain places and I said to her you know it's like we're forcing mandatory giving via taxes and I said I wonder if we just abolished all of it then the tax rate drops and then we just you know and then the select board says to the residents take that $25 and give it we want you to give you give to who you want to give to you know and but since there's a statutory place where people could can petition I'm not sure you're ever going to get away with it so Paul's approach of managing it may just be better yep but it was an interesting thought that's that's one thing and I just also mentioned about the emergency shelter fund that and that whole thing about the the storage the container at the school trying to get some traction about getting that replaced or repaired or whatever so that they can be properly stored emergency I told them to grant money out there for stuff like that and I'll check because I they had two other that's what I thought they had two other containers out there that they wanted to get rid of yeah that's what I thought and I think the only thing that was stopping them from getting rid of them is they have a bunch of like chairs and desks and stuff in there um but yeah let me yeah let me just go talk to Pierre the principal hit me he's new there so he probably doesn't know much either so he'll then go talk to um what then we could get either get rid of that one we'll get it out of this just it's getting worse and worse yeah that July 10 flooding a lot of the red cross stuff was in there and that's when you know it's it's beyond its years and a new one but somebody did say that somebody at the school has one that they just aren't really going to be using much so they had three told me back there one of which was ours and there was two other ones that were just sitting there but I think there's a real nice one right next to it yeah 750 bucks in the capital fund for it and then we budget some money in the general fund but it'd be nice to just like you said it was 1400 yeah and we spent 850 because we paid to have the generator maintained the Yankee generator every year and we paid 50 so that came out of that 1400 plus there's yes yeah let me check with the school like it'd be nice to be able to just I was just here today but I saw yeah and it's a pain to get into yeah it is when we need the stuff for the flooding it's a hassle for sure so there's a couple there anyway so we got the the traffic and trash ordinances the gravel roads inventory and then the human services reorganization yeah um process you want to just stick with three or do we'll do we have anything else we want to do or I spoke with three about the energy at the town hall in the town office and she was looking for a little help to go through that and get the grants lined up with it and what can be done it would be helpful because remember we got the MIRP grant the 4000 and then we were able to get our free energy audits for this building in the town office which put us in a place where they keep telling us there's like a half million dollars in grant money but I'm gonna need help interpreting the well I mean I imagine I could stick a plastic butter knife through the outside of town office but um it would be helpful since Jordan has construction experience to figure out what we should be applying for out of the grant you know what I mean because supposedly there's you know quite a bit of money there that we can apply for for upgrades and updates energy efficient so and we have those done like the 16th and 18th or I don't know do you have contact for the 18th I don't know who's doing them I just told um they're coming well I'll let them in here and then one day and then the day they're doing the town office I told everybody not to come in until a little bit later because you can't obviously be in the building and and then they'll we'll get the results and then I can really really do you what are they doing for an audit uh they're full on like the whole thing lower door test and everything here and this building I'm not so concerned about but um you know certainly other and then just knowing what to apply for in the grant what are we looking for so so energy efficiency audits for the town buildings just town office and town hall that's all I got was two and just yeah because if there is that much money out there need to know how to prioritize to what we're going to apply for and you know they say that now half million then we'll see what they say later yeah exactly here's some 99 cent light bulb so the other one um I'll probably get the thing wrong but we had the revitalization pieces in the downtown and I know one thing since I've been on the board we've talked about it a little bit but never have gone anywhere was you know the whole parking you know thing in the downtown and I just wonder if that's the email I saw you somehow maybe we should put that on like or maybe doesn't necessarily have to be a select board goal but we should probably start talking about it yeah well I had said did you get the email I sent you with the stuff and then the estimate we're going to be looking for money for that for a scoping study we've been slow strolling this thing for for well we just ten years now yeah but we didn't get the finished Bethel for all until you know maybe a year ago but um I actually mentioned it to Rita tonight so I'm going to be looking for money for a scoping study and and because we did Bethel for all we're going to be in the running for more grant money so but I mean I think I don't know like well again you have two parking study and then the scoping two to three years and you know v-trans will be coming back through here so it'd be nice if we were going to do something then I'll make it up if we were going to shut parking off on one side of the road anyways at least when v-trans comes through here I agree when they repave that we can have remarked correctly and all that stuff rather than they come through here and then a year later we say oh we want to yeah and the other thing we have to do simultaneously is come from the Bethel for all is redo the town parking lot and also there's a stormwater project in there as well but um well I'll reach out to Rita about figuring out the funding for that because we know the next step is the next step is a parking and scoping study so I'll make a note Rita parking and scoping and then looking at this parking lot out here it's gonna have to um yeah it's probably gonna have to go to dirt yep and and there needs to be some significant drainage done on the upper end they did a design as you can see where all the sub base is failing because there's there's water coming off the hill it's getting underneath and you know the surface water goes where it needs to go but there's water underneath the surface that is I think that in the stormwater master plan they addressed this was one of the places that Du Bois and King addressed so we do have a plan for this one because it's deteriorating pretty fast but it's something that we could do in conjunction together that's what I was thinking because if the state has if the state negotiated a deal with somebody they might do the same tonnage to just come up here I'm not sure but we'll see and but yeah that's definitely and remember too and David mentioned it multiple times that you know we talked about conduit that's one thing the energy committee has been saying is that they want a conduit in the ground when we do this so that if down the road there's a charging station and I don't know if this is a you know how big this conduit you just gotta find it I can't remember I don't know oh we'll find it Dave when we hit it I could I could give you a rough idea where it goes from one end to the other yeah there's two yeah there's two three inch pieces of conduit in the ground but that isn't going to do what that isn't going to do what they want to do for a charging station because it's going to go one side of the other yeah right yeah so it's you know something consideration is doing the ass project but I'll see about scoping study money you know that guy never called me back so I still can't find the plans when Bethel paid for all that underground conduit you gave me the contractor name I spoke to his wife she said she'd have to get back to me he's never called me at they don't find it when they were doing the water I emailed multiple times I I'd have to ask it only crosses the road right here it crosses the road also up by the hardware it goes 45 degrees across uh just before you get to the hardware to that pole over the other side of the street and it crosses right down here by the back right so I they didn't run into either one they might have they must have because that that conduit wasn't down that deep I will tell you there's like six or seven of them that go across we just got from Tim's widow a thousand pictures that we put on a thumb drive that he'd had on his phone that he'd take it through the whole project so I just gave it to us we gave the thumb drive to Richard so he could see how he can you know sort it and um but yeah so I don't know what they ran into there but we'll talk to what we can do is um type these goals up and just have them on the next meeting so we can just visually see them and for good with that we'll just prove those and we'll work on those and maybe we could assign at that time we could assign people if they want to help out on certain goals of human services or gravel roads or whatever probably the least amount that tress has to do the better but but if we need any help with anything we can always get some help so of course happy to help all right anything further on the board goals um anything left in the town manager's report have you even hit uh just an update I know we're getting a lot of questions and stuff about the fire truck and so I'm just saying you know what just be patient I've gone through the process with our insurance company and we're on hold I've talked to the gentleman at the state state self-insured and then they have a third party authorized rep and so I've dealt with them and just kind of waiting to see and so there's a there's a phrase going around everybody's like are they going to make us whole so here's the deal the fire truck is value of that fire truck was estimated around 250 000 our own insurance company would quote unquote make us whole at 250 000 they're never gonna buy it for 200 exactly and you can't you know so people we're not over insured we didn't jack up the value of this of the truck so that's where we're at when I spoke to the gentleman at the state you know there was a couple things that came out as obviously the state holds the liability we don't the state does the second thing was he mentioned something about lack of use of the vehicle and I said well we're looking two to three years out for a fire truck and he's like you're kidding and I'm like no I'm not so I'm hoping that you know they can do better than just the value of the fire truck our insurance company will do that and no the insured value of the fire truck we know we're going to get the insured value of the fire truck so hoping we can bridge the gap between that and what it's worth today and what the replacement and a replacement so and you know so we just don't know yeah so I'm just telling people you know just bear with us we'll we'll know when we know and it's and it's a it's a marathon not a sprint because we're not going to get a truck for at least a couple of years anyways so wait and see how that goes didn't you mention that the change insurance to a replacement we did and now replacement is meaning they're not depreciating it so we get the value that we put on it okay because normally your insurance we get today's value yeah would get the you know the value minus depreciation and you know so our insurance had done better than that so the other thing is I talked to chris fours and vorac is tanking right now and it's a very frustrating process and god bless chris fours this is the 330 000 we got for trails and we have been put specifically chris through the ringer the state does not have a permit on their website that we need to get to build the handicap accessible trail down near the on the school property but they keep telling us that we need a permit and I have sent a letter to the state saying as the zoning administrator look coded our town you know plan and our zoning regs it does not need a permit we are exempt we are the only organization that has to issue a permit and they are hung up we have talked to he's talked to the river engineer you know I mean I can't even tell you how many people he's talked to he had another meeting today and we're prepared at this point we may have to throw in the towel on that chunk of the trail and we're trying to get an on-site meeting so that they could at least they're making all these you know comments and stuff without actually having come to Bethel to look at where the trail is so we may end up you know chris and I talked about is just saying forget it we're gonna forget about that section and maybe move some of that money somewhere else or I said to him at this point I'm ready we put a value on that we'll just ram a check give it back to him because they're tanking us as far as the construction season so we may end up having to get an extension through no fault of our own chris has been fighting this for months so we even know even though in our plan it doesn't show that we need a permit could could you just go to the drb and get a permit they're not looking for that kind of permit they're looking for a stay permit and it all stems from the july flooding I think that they had some vorac money had been used in another town built a trail it flooded and so now they're obviously want to protect their investment but we have already chris has downgraded the trail to a more man made materials and we you know he's done everything and we just they keep saying we need a permit but and I got a hold of the jackie dagger the lady at um head of the vorac and I'm like you have no authority the state has no authority to grant a permit here only the municipality and our ordinance says we are exempt but right it's it's so you think at that point you being the zoning that you could write the and I did and I said to him but no dice so now we have the local and our rep we've already talked to jaren borg we're talking to Ned we're talking to Claire so there's like four people in it so finally chris reached out and was like look at there's no permit that you even have on your website that the state issues that we need so we're just trying to get them off the dime and I'm hoping hoping hoping that we can actually get them to come to beffle so that they can see what it is we're trying to do but we're just kind of spinning our wheels right now so if we end up needing a project extension this is no fault of ours this is just a statement you think that they would easily just say you need this whatever permit yeah but you know what to the email yeah they don't have one that's the whole thing is it's like they're gonna have to invent one or something so I'm not really sure but we're kind of in a holding pattern and and uh so you know god bless chris fours he's been you know it's been an uphill battle so hopefully in the next couple three weeks we'll have some more news to tell you where we stand with that other aspects of what we're going through but that trail is sucking pond water right now we just I don't know what we're gonna be coming in soon to probably in the next month to do that piece between the skate park and the brick I would assume I would assume I'd have to assume when we're gonna want to kick the skate park off as soon as yeah yeah absolutely so yeah I'd have to ask um chris fours but other than that because I know that gentleman will get pretty busy here the next month yeah yeah so I'll come in and do that work soon yeah I'll ask chris fours about after that you wouldn't be available no r e m mr america but yeah so that's the other than that I think my notes were self-explanatory okay we had the select board meeting minutes from the 11th any amendments or are we good to approve as written okay all in favor all right and the other communications uh let's committee had their stuff and conservation and the red committee that they are the committee will plan their skate park opening party at their April meeting well I think after this snow and it's the first Wednesday of the month which is well and that tie-in works gotta get done right we talked about that and we told them that yeah so well I know we've told you but sometimes I wonder if there's I know it's not gonna happen on April 3rd are you like you can't do that to the side okay that's fine yeah we can't do a whole lot without cool director can I yeah we're still moving forward um right now what we're doing is it we have had a couple applicants and we are also obviously what we do at the pool depends on whether we get life how many lifeguards we get back and how many of those lifeguards are WSI certified to teach swimming lessons so the pool will open regardless and um it'll just what's gonna depend on is what those hours are based on how many people we get to come back and whether or not we have um are able to even offer swimming lessons that's usually a really big trick for us is dependent because not a lot of young people are lifeguard and WSI certified so but I do believe at this point we have a couple applicants and they choose out for part of the weeks we'll probably regroup next week and how does it look for lifeguards right now you know she's she has a couple that are coming back so I feel like we're starting to see you know coming together I figure worst-case scenario pool opens you don't offer swimming lessons and you had free swim on certain nights days or nights or hours depending on what we have for staff but it's a little bit too early to tell because we're just starting to hear back from college kids and stuff that are coming back so we'll probably have a little more update on that let's move forward and did tell the rec committee that the pool director will not be doing any family fun Friday so if they want to take those over feel free and maybe they want to reach out like maybe the conservation commission wants to do a family fun Friday one night or something Dietrich has plenty of games and stuff and information to give them so and on that drafted the job description today for the part-time assessor's office person assistant town clerk um Rick and Pam approved that so we're moving out with that and then I drafted the utility job description and sent it to Richard Morgan and AJ to take a peek at to see if we missed if I missed anything there so job descriptions are getting done and ads are going out so okay all right the only question I had on the budget status I'm just assuming that the fire department was all paid out is that why yeah they get paid out once a year yeah because I looked at that and it's it must have been they get paid out once a year neither uh end of November beginning of December okay because other than that it all looked yeah looked like it was going pretty well so and the other thing I would just the other thing because sometimes it lags behind so I just wanted so salt wise right now we're well as of this report we're at 18 000 of the 92 000 so he just ordered some and um so I know we paid a bill and and he just ordered some too so I know I just saw the shipping order I put it in his box and then um obviously Pam's done a couple payables since then but we haven't used much salt and then and I know we had uh we had talked about this a few different times but the the gravel quantity so that's 70 000 that's in there right now is that 100% what is on our budget or hat and has the FEMA gravel been taken out of that or do we still have FEMA gravel this is 100% us okay because we've used way more gravel just with the multi the multi season all that stuff yeah so I have taken out the FEMA gravel is and now in fund 89 with all the FEMA expenses okay but yeah that's us I don't think I've ever seen the sand pile this big this time of year yeah yeah it's just been crazy weather like holy mackerel that's like it's gonna be half the sand we need at least yeah for next year so we put it out so hopefully that'll help us yeah absolutely okay no those are the only questions I had on that oh and the tax sale date is set did I tell you that May 16th is the tax sale at 11 a.m so we have we're moving forward with the tax sale so I did have one payoff on Friday so um we're moving forward with the tax sale and that information will be on our website and everything um coming up so anything else come before the board you're none you need a motion to adjourn