Okay. Good afternoon everyone and thank you very much for joining us at our panel Meet the OpenStack Ambassadors. We're very fortunate to have time from our ambassadors today. They're quite busy people. So my name is Tom Feifield. I'm from the OpenStack Foundation and we're here to talk about the Ambassador Program, which aimed to create a framework of community leaders around the world to kind of glue everything together. Because OpenStack has more than 75 user groups around the world in more than 50 different countries and each of them are very different people from different cultures, different company backgrounds, different technical backgrounds. And so we created the OpenStack Ambassador Program to try and get some of our best practice leaders together. And here's one of our best practice leaders arriving slightly late to kind of pave the way for everything that's been going on. And so you can see on this wiki page here some of the roles of the Ambassador Programs, basically acting as a liaison between all of the user groups in the world and the foundation. So information gets down to the user groups and we can collate all of that feedback from all of these people who hang around in the user groups back up to the top level. They help find the right people to talk to. Everyone here kind of knows everyone in the community. So if you see one of these guys around the conference, buy them a beer or just be annoying and ask them lots of questions because they know more than they will tell you. We want coffee in that beer. Exactly, exactly. But without further ado, I'd love to introduce to you the OpenStack Ambassadors. And if possible, please, can you just say your name and where you're from? Okay. Hi everyone. I'm Akira Yoshiyama from Japan. Nice to meet you. Hello everyone. My name is Marcelo, Marcelo Jeter, and I am from Brazil. My name is Ken Hoi and I'm from the US, northeast. G'day, I'm Tristan and I'm from Australia. Hello, my name is Martin Kish and I'm from Hungary. Hi, my name is Erwin Galen. I'm from France. Hey, my name's Michael Still and I'm from Australia as well. John Roberts, I am from California, western United States. David Munchi, I'm from India. And you can see that we've got basically the entire world covered. We've got time zone coverage. If you have a problem at any time of the day or night, you can get in touch with one of these guys. And so just to kick off the panel, I'd like to throw a question to the ambassadors. Since you're all from different regions, what's special about your region? What are the challenges you face? What challenges do people face using OpenStack? That's a difficult one to begin with. Thanks, Tom. Don't just give one word answers like neutron. Yeah, yeah. Well, Australia obviously coming to summits, we have to come a long way. So that's probably a difficult thing. Michael, do you have any other thoughts on particular difficulties in Australia? I think different markets are at different stages of adoption. So I don't know about other markets. I think a lot of people in Australia are doing proof of concept, relatively small deploys. And that doesn't particularly surprise me because I feel like our marketplace lags, say the US, by a couple of years with most things. Yeah, very cool. I think we also feel the pressure of a growing economy. So there's a lot of competing technologies out there that compete for talent. It's very difficult to find talent on the ground that basically knows what to do. And to drive that growth, we have to go to universities that are outside the main metropolitan cities and try and interest students to basically learn about the cloud, learn about what are going to be the emerging technologies. That's been a very big challenge for us. So for Brazil, it's very difficult to bear this language because the people don't speak much English in the other countries around the South America and it's very hard also to find speakers, speakers about cloud, about OpenStack. I think it's the most difficult for us. Yeah, for us in France, we have lots of OpenStack developers. So for Meetup, it's quite easy. And for the market, yeah, lots of companies are still in POC status but we have in the telco few production deployments, so quite active group in France. In Hungary and it is true for entire Eastern Europe that the people usually don't like to learn very new things because they have used to do something and they want to do the same. But maybe to teach this DevOps culture and how to use cloud and teach them about cloud, it is very hard. And the other thing I see as a problem that we don't have a culture of traveling to conferences. For example, it works very well in the States, but in Central Europe, maybe moving from Sofia to Budapest for a conference, it is not a so common thing and moving out to a different city. Anyway, we don't have so huge distances, so technically it cannot be a problem. So it sounds like there are many issues around the world. So in your role as an ambassador, what are you doing to solve some of these issues? How are you helping people to, you know, well, how are you helping to promote and protect and empower the OpenStack community and ensure that in every region we have a high quality OpenStack experience? I think we started with one city, Bangalore in India, and we made it a conscious effort. We are in 10 to 11 cities now. We try and go to cities and we approach universities or software companies to give us a venue. We try and do a basic what is OpenStack, what is cloud, kind of a session. And we also try and show the docs. We also try and show a demo. And we try and go outside the cities where the infrastructure is very good and people would find out about OpenStack anyway. And we try and go out to rural areas where it is not as popular or there are not many resources. And we try and foster adoption. We also try and organize, we are in the process of organizing a mentorship program where we try and nominate people from several vendors and try and get them to either go to a university or talk to students or talk to just a general community about a particular project and help out anyone who wants to get into development or ops, stuff like that. So that's been the focal point so far. I think in Brazil I am one of the founder of user Brazil groups or it's very hard to do the user group in a country as Brazil because it's the biggest country. So I help finding people to organize local events in Brazil, in other locations, South Brazil, North of Brazil. And I think it's defined that people can help to disseminate the OpenStack is the better role. So in Australia we've had an OpenStack day at like our biggest open source tech conference for the last couple of years. And I think one of the things what I needed to do was listen to people about what they were getting out of that. It was actually really interesting. System admins weren't going because they thought it was a day for people developing OpenStack. So we were totally hitting the wrong market if that makes sense. And so we're kind of pivoting. We're going to rebrand it. We're going to make it clearer that it's about deploying OpenStack and what OpenStack can do for operators and system admins and app developers. And so we'll see if that helps and maybe we'll come back with some data about rebranding. And I'd like to, Sean, did you have something to say? I was going to say we had the opposite problem because there are so many companies actually commercially working on OpenStack in the area I live in. Most of those guys don't have the time to go do something extra at this point. They did in the beginning. That's how the user group in that area got started as a hackathon. So now we have the opposite problem that the people showing up are real beginners usually from, you know, Python experienced, OpenStack inexperienced to real beginners all the way. So that's why we started training people because they didn't have any experience. In Japan, we, in Japanese OpenStack user group, had joined many local open source event.  So we have to continue the activity. In Eastern Europe, I'm trying to find the proper leaders who can start maybe a new user group in different countries. And I guess what we did good in Hungary that we built up a lot of marketing and promotion channels. And I tried to support those people to clone the same story and reach different audiences of the industry. For example, now we are reaching the enterprises, the startups and financial and telecommunication sectors. So almost everybody. And I think we need to clone this model into the different countries. And what we did, we started to organize also one day conference in Budapest. We did two in the last two years. And it is a good chance for everybody in the region to gather into one place and talk about the common problems or how to deploy OpenStack and learn from each other. And I think that's a good point to jump into something a little bit different. I'm not sure if the audience on entering this room realized that this was an interactive session. Because, yes, we should lock the door.  And we actually, in preparation for this meeting, one of the things that we decided on is that we actually wanted to spend quite a lot of our time actually listening to what people in the room wanted the ambassadors to be doing or what you need in terms of OpenStack. So we actually have three microphones there. I would really appreciate if anyone could get up to one of those microphones and give a demand or ask a question. I have seen the etherpad. So while someone's going to the microphone, I'll just answer one of the questions there quickly. The OpenStack ambassadors are volunteers, entirely volunteers. They're doing all of this amazing work by themselves. So your question. Again, I'm throwing at Sean possibly because I had discussion with him. He said that because Summit is not possible for every country to organize, it's quite possible for to get some kind of a service provider, kind of a Summit, OpenStack Summit, or OpenStack Meetup, or something like that, if I recollect. Would you like to comment on that? Like you said, February, we might look at India for some kind of service provider meet or something, if I recollect. Not virtual. This is physical. Okay. I know we talked something about this, but I guess I lost a little bit of the flavor of it. Maybe I wasn't completely conscious earlier this week.  Okay. We evaluated the possibility of Summit being in India, and then we came up. I remember that part. Two or three, four times I have presented. What I find is, you need 4,000, 5,000 people to be, you need a facility which is 4,000 to 5,000. Then the second is you need to have some visas and you should have one time flight, because most of the folks come from California, 2,500 or 2,000 developers come from there. So running a developer conference, so you said that this is too big a huge effort. Why don't we come down to just say service provider meet. I say service providers in India, like there are service providers, little ants, idea, and there are other many providers. So for that, can we have a smaller summit so that it doesn't consume so much of an effort? And since we are moving towards NFE, that might be a good idea. That's what you mentioned, if I remember correctly. We're arguing over who's going to answer now. So this is interesting to me because I think we have the same problem in Australia, right? I would love for this event to go to Australia, but I can't see it happening. Mostly because of travel time and costs for US people, right? So what we've done is we identified a local tech conference that was willing to incubate smaller conferences, and we run this day long thing that I mentioned before as part of that event. So they call them mini comps. And that's worked well for us because somebody else does most of the logistical work, and what we do is provide content, you know, speakers and marketing and stuff like that. So I guess my advice would be try and identify what, you know, tech event is successful in your region or segment of the market or whatever it is, and see if they're interested in running an OpenStack Day. There are other examples of this, the Pecona people in Santa Clara in California have an OpenStack Day now too. Because frankly, running a conference by yourself, I did that once for only 800 people.  It's a massive amount of work. So like leveraging somebody else's event is probably wise. How many user groups are there in India? Is it just one? Just one, but we have a lot of local branches and each branch is autonomous. So we have a committee, we work democratically, right? So we have around 10 cities now, each has a local representative, and then all of us we get together and decide what to do, what direction to take forward. Speaking about that problem, we already kind of have been doing an OpenStack India Day for the last three years. Next year is being planned in other February, March 2015. So we welcome any service providers that want to sponsor us, give us some money. I don't know, it's getting increasingly difficult to do a completely kind of a benign kind of an event, like with no one sponsoring us, because we are getting to 600, 700 people now. And just to provide food and a venue for the whole day. So we need people to sponsor us as well in the past. A lot of vendors have sponsored us, but we kind of need to kick it up a notch and do it on a bigger scale, because just hiring a hotel room isn't cutting it anymore. So we need to grow that and that's why we kind of postponed it from December to March. So it would give us three or four months extra to try and galvanize some support. So it is happening, and if service providers want to join us, that would be excellent. Thank you. I'd add onto that that there's already, I mean, that's how OpenStack started. It started at AusCon, and there's continued to be at LenoxCon, which is called Cloud Open, but it's primarily OpenStack stuff. So that stuff's already happening. So I'd say let's copy that because that makes a lot of sense. So keep it going. We're seeing these kind of events spring up around the world. So Yoshiyama-san can talk about the OpenStack Tokyo Day, which gathered 1,300 people. There was one in Taiwan that did 1,000 earlier this year, Silicon Valley, all of these kind of things. So just to grab another random question off the etherpad. First, how many of you speak or can use a language other than English? Kind of speak German. I think you speak Japanese, right, Yoshiyama-san. Yeah, okay, great. Yes, I know English is difficult. And so one simple question that's cropped up on our etherpad is, should we translate documentation? Anyone want to go on answering that? Yes, the docs team should do that. Typey typey. Unfortunately, my Chinese is not that good yet. I think we are trying to empower to translate the documentation and translate the user interface in OpenStack in different languages. Maybe last time we tried to do something with Serbian and the chat. I think it will work right for the next release. But usually, I guess, most of the system administrators and the users of OpenStack can speak English or understand English. So it is not so mandatory in this Central European region, I guess. Because it requires a lot of resources and a lot of effort to continuously translate everything. I think the question to start with though is not, should we translate? I think the question is, are there regions in the world where not having documentation in the native language is holding OpenStack the adoption back? You know what I mean? I think that's the first thing we got to answer. Obviously, folks from other places could answer that better than I can. I think we have to translate. Most of the technical guys, developers, they don't like translation. They say that English is enough. But for newbies, people who want to discover the project, people in companies who work most of the time with enterprise products, they work with translated, you can find some translated documentations. So I think we have to do it. And the ambassador could help for this in France. We have an active group for French translation with Quebec. And we support this work. I'd like to add that we were colonized by the English for like 200 years. Everyone speaks English, I guess. Also, all the higher education is in English. Like if you want to do university, you can do it in a non-English language, but all technical study, engineering, COMSI, the programs are delivered in English. So I guess we do need some local language translation. But so far, we haven't really received those many requests from the actual user group. I will make it a point to raise it in the next meeting and see if I get any traction with it. So we started writing our stuff down because we were training people a lot. Because the type of people that were showing up and we wanted to help them and we wanted to try to make it as consistent as possible. So fast forward to today, there's a couple of people from Indonesia that really want and have actually used the material we put together their own version because partially to translate but partially they felt the way that we were saying it didn't translate right to the way that Indonesian people thought and looked at this. So maybe there needs to be some different copies of stuff just because of ways people are used to learning in different areas. I think also it's very difficult to translate. The translation is up to date with the official documentation. There are a lack of time with the official documentation and the translation documentation. So for us, it's better to use the English version than the Portuguese version. Yeah, because we just now got the docs team. Well, I shouldn't say just now, but the docs team is to the point where it's sophisticated enough that they just cut stable the kilo documentation a couple of days ago. That's pretty awesome that they have so many people now but to then reproduce that for other languages seems pretty big hill to climb. So I think we've comprehended. Yoshiyama-san, did you want to say something? Yes. In Japan, most Japanese need Japanese document because most Japanese can't read English documents. So first of all, our user group started to translate the documentation and had a Japanese website for OpenStack. And our community is very active to translate OpenStack documentation. So we have Japanese Juno release note and our original OpenStack documentation. So just one last thing. We have vendors who ship in other countries, right? Maybe they have translation resources we could be using. And the foundation also has money. So I wonder like, if say the Japanese user group can get it 90% of the way, maybe we can find a way for the foundation or vendors that sell in Japan to help with the ongoing every time a patch is made, we need to push it across to the other language. So that's an example of a suggestion that the ambassador group might make to the foundation. And as Michael said, the foundation does have money. And these guys are amongst the people that we trust to suggest things that we should be spending money on. So I'd like to see if I can get someone else to perform the very scary task of standing behind a microphone. And I'm looking for something that's more of a request rather than a question. Is there something that the ambassador should be doing for you that they're not right now? Okay, I have a question. I'm from Romania and we're also trying to start up OpenStack Meetups and User Groups. My curiosity is, is the foundation open in sponsoring or helping out in organizing these types of user groups? In the likes of Enno, maybe bringing foreign speakers or stuff like that? You can answer that, Tom. Like a request, right? Can you fly people over? Indeed. I talk after this session, right? I can, we can find some way to start your user group. And I try to give a lot of support because it is my old goal to start something really Romanian because there was some initial user groups in Bucharest as I know, but it is not regular. So the first step would be to chat with your ambassador in Europe. It sounds like Martin might have some ideas already on some people who might be a little bit closer than in America, for example. So maybe you guys should catch up after that and that's exactly the kind of thing that we want to see happening with the program. Yes. I was going to, sorry. No, don't go away. So I don't think that we actually advertise our names anywhere, right? Like not like on the user group page or anything like that. Maybe that's something we need to change. We can put some Blink tags and some animated gifs. I want dancing figures. Just to finish about this question, we can help. I've seen a question about Hub with a local sponsor. We know lots of people, lots of companies. So in the east of Europe, big companies can help in all countries. So we can discuss about this and you can have support for specific meetups to find some sponsors to help you. So our poor audience member has been standing up and down. One quick question. How many ambassadors are there per country? Is that universe of ambassadors or are there more than this side and then are there more per country? I noticed there are two Australians, two Americans. So there's currently 13 ambassadors with a broad geographical area. They're not the same as user group leaders. I don't know if you guys want to take that as a question. How do you interact with the user group leaders? Where do the ambassadors fit? Is that helpful to answer? My follow on is more in terms of we have a women's group and I was wondering if there is an opportunity to recruit some women ambassadors as well. And if that could be, you know, we can broaden it or is it one ambassador per country or that kind of thing? I just thought that might be an interesting request or alignment to take back to the women's group to look at broadening the participation of women with open stack. Absolutely. It's very unfortunate that when we're finding the first tranche of ambassadors, we didn't have a single woman apply and we did try. No, I'm sure you did. I was just wondering if there's an opportunity to expand it or because it sounds, it seems to me just in the last couple of open stack summits that there's just been a lot more inertia there. Absolutely. This program is in its infancy, so yes. Okay, great. Cool, thanks. But I think there was a question there about how you tie in with user groups. I run a user group in San Francisco. So I don't think it's necessarily has to be a one to one, but I interact with a few of the people here on a consistent basis. We don't necessarily always talk specifically about the user groups. We usually talk about community related stuff. So, yeah. So, so the model I kind of the model I've been doing to help. So I'm actually helping out three or four groups right now. And the way I do that is I have a model where each of those groups have a local set of organizers that does logistics and facilities and get sponsored, you know, for for the events and my job because I have happened to know a lot of people, a lot of vendors in the ecosystem. My job is basically to provide speakers. And I think that's something that a lot of us probably can do. We know people in the ecosystem. So if you're looking for speakers, we try to get them to you. One request I have one request Tom is I know a lot of the, a lot of the user groups outside of the US have problems finding speakers. I think I've heard that multiple times now. I wonder if there's a way if we can get people who are willing to can and willing to be speakers to almost kind of publish their schedule of where they may be traveling. Particularly since a lot of the speakers tend to come out of the US in probably a year, whatever. So, so a good example is, you know, I was in London last week, two weeks ago. I'm going to be in Sydney, Australia, you know, next month. So there was a way for me to let people know that and then people can go, you know, we're actually going to have a user group, which like to come and speak up. I'm sure because I think one of the challenges of having speakers fly to another country is who's going to pay for it. So in this case, if I know we traveling different parts of the world ahead of time, and I tend to, then basically my company basically pays for that. So I think having speakers physically at the event is good, and we should do it as much as we can. But we have had some success with, for instance, John Dickinson did a swift presentation over Skype or whatever. So there's also kind of other options available if we know that people need content, but that requires the user groups to actually come and talk to us. We've published that somewhere. Here's some, you know, options for, if that is in fact an issue, right, for people who have content and speakers, we should publish that somewhere with different options and then say, here's the ambassador in your area you can talk to that can help facilitate. I like that a lot. There's a small drawback around privacy. So, but if we could figure that out, I like that idea a lot because I actually did over the last couple of years did travel to a couple of different user groups. I knew I was going to be in the area and I specifically contacted them and said, hey, are you interested in doing X, Y, or Z? And it was pretty successful. Bless you. And then, so if we could do more of that. And I go to enough of these events, I guess it's a little bit easier for me right now because people tend to seek me out more than I have to seek them out. So that's a good problem to have, I guess. But there's no reason why we can't seek them out and say, I'm going to be here. Do you guys, what do you guys need? Indeed. Well, our gentleman in the audience has been standing by the microphone for a few minutes. Apologies for the delay. Being a lot as well. So I don't mind standing here right now again. So in terms of causes, I actually have a request. It's something I've already raised with the foundation personally is if. So one of the things about OpenStack adoption in the greater level is a lot of things of tool support. So there's a lot of other tools outside of the Stackforge or wherever they are. There's a particular company, probably some of you are familiar with HashiCorp. They produce tools like Vagrant and Packer, which are I would say best practice kind of developers tools in their toolbox. But there is no formal association between the OpenStack Foundation and HashiCorp. And as a result of that, the integration support between those different various tools is lacking is compared to if you compare it to something like the integration with Amazon. And I see this as kind of an issue. It's a personal issue for me because these are things that I work with with various customers. So I am trying to help encourage the foundation to have that relationship with HashiCorp so we can improve some of these integrations. That's interesting, right? My employer has a developer relations group and one of the things they do is they go and try and find things like cloud libraries and make sure they have good OpenStack support. So I think Vagrant for instance would make kind of falls into that class of problem, right? But it's hard for that group to identify what tools are lacking. You have support that maybe it exists a little bit but it ain't great kind of thing because they don't use all of the tools. So if there are requests like that, I feel like posting to OpenStack Dev would be a reasonable thing to do. So Phillip's already done that. So I saw that there was a Vagrant thread, but I thought that was from an employee of HashiCorp. Am I misunderstanding the thread? I believe you work for a cloud provider in Sweden, right? Yeah. Okay. Our provider service in Sweden. Yes, I did throw out the thread there into the DevStack. The developers mailing group. I'm doing all I can. I think there's an opportunity doing it the opposite direction rather than going for the top down, doing it for the ground up. That sounds like a pretty good ongoing topic for an OpenStack user group. Yeah, but anyway, especially for Vagrant, I know that an OpenStack plugin exists and it works in some way. I had a presentation about that and we tried out and it was working. But anyway, it is not an officially HashiCorp support. That's kind of main issue is that there's stuff that works, but again, there's a lot of other things. There's a whole tool suite and the integration between those various tools don't work that well because there's no official plugin. So even though it kind of works, it's not as seamless as, for example, if you're working with stuff on Amazon. Okay. So I think I misunderstood you originally then. So what you're saying is we need the foundation to reach out to HashiCorp and be like, hey man, let's do this thing. Okay, interesting. I don't think that's impossible. I'm not immediately aware of who the right person at the foundation is. But in fact, it's probably Turi as like the engineering manager, but yeah, we can chase that. And so this is an example where the ambassadors might connect people with the right people. Exactly what you're supposed to be doing. So with about five minutes left in this panel, I thought I'd throw it back over to the ambassadors. I think we've actually got a really good question up here in purple, which is an existential question first. But I think the second part of that is what you hope to achieve in the community in the coming year. So any comments on that? I want to answer the first question. Tristan hasn't spoken much. Let him speak. No, I think for me, one of the cool things about being an ambassador is kind of a mentor for new user groups and community. So I'd like to keep doing that and like to sort of always like hitch myself to new groups around the place and help them get up to speed. I mean, especially like yourself, Martin can mentor you and obviously, you know, teach you much more quickly to get your user group running from experience. So that's a big part of why I think the user groups exist. Sorry, the ambassadors exist as a sort of a mentoring posse more than anything else. I think I was kind of going to say the same thing, to be honest. Like, I think it's an attempt to scale the user community organically, right? The foundation hypothetically could go and hire 100 people whose job it is to go and organise events that felt very commercial and shout out to you about how great OpenStack is. But successful user groups kind of pop up where they're needed by themselves. And the ambassadors are about trying to support that instead of imposing, oh, there's no user group in Wagga Wagga, we should fix that. You know, maybe there's no demand there. But so yeah, supporting people who are passionate is what this is about to me. I think what I've also noticed is the fact that a lot of people feel isolated when they live away from the US. They don't, they talk to the mailing list, they go to, go on IRC. But it's not as good as personally meeting with some developers in a meet-up somewhere, having a few drinks and you know, just socialising and feeling generally included. Like they, it feels to them like what they do matters and user groups are a very good way of doing it. And as an ambassador, I make sure that if someone does come to me with a problem, I say, look, thanks for bringing it up. I will definitely get someone to speak on it or someone to address that in the next meet-up. And I try and make sure that people feel included. That's a brilliant place to stop actually. We've got about 60 seconds left in this. Who wants to take it out? I can dance if you sing. Brilliant. Well, with no comments left apart from a couple in the etherpad, hopefully we can sort out in this next ten minute break between sessions. Please do come up after the session and introduce yourselves and we'll see how we can work together to help whatever it is you're doing. Let's please thank once again our OpenStack ambassadors. There is one last thing I think we should mention, the community mailing list. So you have questions, you want to talk amongst each other, join the community mailing list and we've monitored as well. So it's a way to talk to the group. Excellent. Thank you very much.


I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone because more and more I'm seeing clips from the view that don't completely make me lose my mind. Like a couple of weeks ago they talked about the election and you know they brought up Abigail Spanberger's criticism of the left and how she believes that defund the police and Medicare for all and you know the label of socialism led to Democrats losing seats in the house. And when I saw the view put out a segment where they talk about this you know I kind of braced myself because I expected them to have a really really terrible take. And surprisingly they were all reasonable. The conversation that they had about this was substantive and furthermore it was correct. They talked about how you know the incumbent Democrats that support Medicare for all actually won re-election and it's a very popular policy. So when I saw them talk about something that Obama said lately with regard to defund the police and how Democrats shouldn't say it once again I braced myself because I figured that that last segment was just an outlier but once again we saw a pretty substantive discussion. But not as much as the last one not as not as good as the last one I should say because Sunny Haasen really was the voice of reason on this panel and she got pushed back. Sunny Haasen actually called out Barack Obama and disagreed with him which is something you almost never see in mainstream media. And she got pushed back but I do want to respond to some of the points made by individuals who disagree with her because I think that there is a kernel of truth to what they're saying but it's just it's not applicable to defund the police and I think that Sunny Haasen basically explains perfectly why that's the case. So take a look. Former President Obama has been commenting on the current state of politics in recent interviews and he's warning progressive Democrats to be careful how they pitch their platforms. Take a look. If you believe as as I do that we should be able to reform the criminal justice system so that it's not biased and treats everybody fairly I guess you can use a snappy slogan like defund the police but you know you've lost a big audience the minute you say it which makes it a lot less likely that you're actually going to get the changes you want done. Right. So does he have a point here Sunny? You know I'm always low to criticize President Obama because I'm such a fan but I do think he's wrong here. I mean when you think about defund the police that's not a term that was crowdsourced or tested in focus groups you know that's a term that was born a rallying cry that was born out of this over-policing of black and brown communities born out of the frustration of seeing black and brown men and women killed in the streets by police officers and defunding the police does not mean for the hundredth time I've explained it does not mean eliminating police departments it doesn't mean stripping agencies for all of their money it's reimagining policing in this country to address systemic racism we defund school programs all the time and they call it defunding school programs yet no one seems to have a problem with that but people all of a sudden have a problem with defunding the police that term I don't think you should allow people to co-op the movement and and tell protesters what language they should use I think you know President Obama was a community organizer and I really think that he you know knows better I spoke to my good friend Alicia Garza you you guys have met her and she co-founded the Black Lives Matter movement she told me when they first came up with the Black Lives Matter movement people told her that they should call it be all lives matter movement now I think that that would have been a mistake now you know because that that was born of protesters in the street yeah but but I think what he's trying to say is that people hold on hold on a second I think what he's saying is how people perceived that message and how it was carried through is the problem that's I think what he's saying be aware of how you're presenting yourself because people do grab it and run it's you know and we saw it in Miami we saw it all over Florida how people took that message didn't matter how many times you said that's not what it means people took that because the right kind of message that grabbed it and turned it into something else go ahead July I'm sorry well yeah but I think that sunny gate came up with a better slogan reimagined the police yeah that's a good slogan it's it's more accurate the defund the police is not an accurate statement it has to be more like here's an accurate statement give me liberty or give me death there you go and I dated Patrick Henry so I happen to know that's a good one but the thing choice also and pro life those things don't work either it should be pro woman they need to get a slogan that does not make people nuts and defund the police scared that's what tree and that's why so many Democrats well that's what he's saying so it's not working that's what I disagree with Obama is saying disagree I know you do but I think you're wrong this time so I thought I do it when I came back I didn't know how much time we had do you want me to go because I actually I do agree with President Obama that when there's any confusion I understand what sunny is saying that there's an anger there's a rage that you can hear that and agree with where you're going but not how you get there and I think what President Obama said resonated with me because I think that if there's any confusion how do you speak across to more people it's you know your friend Alicia Garza said it's all about math it's getting more people not just your community to understand it and in order to do that you got to make sure you don't lose some of those people in the messaging as President Obama said so I really appreciated your quote but you also guys I hate to do this to you but we have to go so usually when I am critical of the view Sonny Hauston is the one that I agree with the most if I'm gonna agree with any of them which is pretty rare to be honest but you know over the years she's been growing more and more out of touch and you know I think it was last year that was basically the straw that broke the camel's back for me when they were all lying about Medicare for all how popular it is its advocacy and that really that that irritated me and I kind of held this grudge against them but what we saw here from Sonny Hauston I mean she said everything that I would have said in that predicament you know this isn't some sort of slogan that a politician came up with this manifested organically on the ground I mean it's not like a ballish ice where AOC is the one who kind of spoke this into existence to fund the police came from the bottom up not the top down and that makes it very different very different and she says you know we talk about reimagining policing in this country to address systemic racism and we defund school programs all the time like everything she's saying is reasonable and I think that Jamal Bowman put it best if you're more uncomfortable with the slogan then black people getting murdered by the police at alarming rates then I mean you're the one with the issue and it's just a matter of educating people and changing their hearts and minds I mean we shouldn't base our policy preferences on what is or isn't popular we should support policies that are good policies now Joy Behar and the other host disagreed with Sonny Austin Joy Behar said we should call it you know we imagine the police it's not working and she then uses you know pro-choice and pro-life as a reason why Democrats often miss the mark when it comes to labeling and it should be called pro-woman now I don't agree with what Joy Behar is saying with regard to defund the police because I think that defund the police is very specific we take the funds that we are giving to police departments and we reallocate them into other social services so rather than you know just calling the police for everything mental health issues and whatnot we actually have a social worker come out to deal with mental health crises you know something that they're more trained to deal with than not police officers like we can't just have this one-size-fits-all approach to policing we have to reimagine policing in America and defund the police I think speaks to that and if it's not popular now we make it popular we keep pushing to make sure that this is something that individuals support right this is what happened with medic air for all it wasn't always as popular as it is now we had to work on it and convince people and we won so you don't run away from something just because it's not popular but I do think that what Joy Behar is saying about marketing it is important because Democrats oftentimes are terrible at marketing and Republicans they're pretty effective at marketing and I don't necessarily believe it's because you know Republicans are geniuses I think it's because they're disciplined in their messaging right so they say something and initially you'll think wow that's really stupid nobody's gonna believe this and then they say it's so much that it ends up sticking if Democrats were this disciplined it wouldn't really matter what the policy is you dis elevate one issue use an anecdote and you run with it and you stick to it and that actually does work so when it comes to like pro-life and pro-choice I do think that there is some truth to what Joy Behar is saying because when you call a Republican who's anti-abortion pro-life you're giving them far more credit than they ever would deserve because these individuals oftentimes who identify as pro-life support bombing other countries they support wars you know they don't think that individuals should be guaranteed health care that's free at the point of service so that's not pro-life so why are we calling them pro-life why are we calling ourselves pro-choice when they can easily misconstrue that and say well that means that you think that abortion is the pro-choice and not that you know we're in favor of more freedom for women like these are things that Democrats have to think more deeply about I think but it's not even about them like getting better at marketing I think that this is something that Democrats and the left has to work on discipline really is the key because you know when Republicans say something they're they're relentless they have Fox News say they have their politicians say it and repeat it like it's the same thing with death panels and Obamacare like all of a sudden people were worried about death panels because Republicans said that we should fear death panels and it sounded stupid at first and it was stupid but if you say something enough that raises the salience of that issue so you know there's there's a lot to be discussed I think that this conversation is important like I think that talking about the efficacy of slogans and marketing it does matter but when it comes to defund the police this is something that manifested on the ground as I stated earlier so you know you can't attack politicians for simply doing what they should be doing adopting what activists are encouraging them to support you don't attack the politicians for adopting the slogan of activists you attack the politicians who don't support this mass movement perhaps the largest civil rights movement we've seen in America so you know I really give Sonny Haasen credit here because everything that she said was astute


Now we have a little bit of time. I think this is Karl Kaiser, who is a German and American. But then you would say 75 German, 20, no, 70% German, 30% American. Listening to the two of you, I am struck by a possible interesting peril. As we all remember, and if we and other European institutes did studies in the 70s and 80s on this, at the beginning France was the clearly leading space power in Europe. Fire ahead of the others. And it pulled the others along. And I still remember very well when the French had to put a lot of pressure and persuasion on the Germans to make the move into this area, because only by being a group you have sufficient resources, because it's very expensive to do these things. But there's also political motive behind it, as we all know. And Madam Minister, it seems to me, aren't you now going possibly the way France once did, being the leader of a future coalition of partners, possibly in the region, in order to gather enough resources to do more than you can do nationally as a country alone. So that would be one question. And the other one would be, do you see a possibility that like Europe you may move to an area which is not just only civil, but possibly for other uses, observation satellites, for example, Europe's doing that, which can be used for civil purposes, but also for, for example, control of arms control agreements, or possibly even military purposes. So, two questions. Please, Madam. So on the topic of the first question with regards to the collaboration within the region, like you said, space is really expensive. And the riskier it is, you spoke about constellation, for example, of communications, that's a paradigm shift. So we're at a time where any program that you take is riskier, therefore more costly in some instances. You're creating paradigm shifts in sectors. So the earth observation sector of imaging, earth and various wavelengths has been transformed over the course of the last 10 years. The next 10 years we'll see a full transformation of communication systems. I think navigations will come in sometime in the next decade. So you're talking about entire paradigm shifts that requires you to reinvest in infrastructure, reinvest in methodologies of development and so on. It's natural for coalitions to be formed, because like you said, you need to offset risk and you need to have various resources to create the right impact that you'll have. It's a natural progression for a region to move towards working, and it's not about force. It's about the mutual benefit, which is what happens in Europe. It's mutual benefit that pushes this development forward. There will be competition, but it will be healthy competition to further advancement and development. So that's on the front of cooperation. When you're talking about utilizing space systems, yes, there are civilian uses of space. Space started as a military endeavor. What we're looking at at the moment is economic drive and economic development for the UAE's purposes. And that's where a lot of resources and investment is going in. Do countries utilize space for various uses? Yes, it's normal. It's natural. Everyone does it. But the primary purpose will remain from the space sector in the UAE for the economic development. So now I will take three questions. You are identified. Wait a second. I suggest that we take the three questions together and you answer not to be too late. And I start with Farid Yasin. Questions that is very biased. I used to be a scientist. Money for science is scarce. Money for science is scarce. People fight for it. There's competition. There are areas that are very trendy, like space exploration. There's particle physics, which you mentioned. There's quantum computing. The topic I want to mention here is fusion. Why? Because we're all under the threat of climate change. And one of the silver bullets that is being talked about as a solution to the problem, the energy that we face, is fusion. Europe is very active. I'm sure you face some competition for the funds that you get from people involved in fusion. And in fact, the new international reactor is being built in Kedahash, France itself. My question to you is, are you being affected by this new focus on funding towards addressing climate change? And the second question that I have has to do with the involvement of the private sector. Most of the projects involving fusion are publicly funded. But now in the United States, in Canada, in the UK, we are seeing private investors building Tokamax or equivalent machines at a much lower cost in the hope of finding a much cheaper, quicker silver bullet. Is there a similar project in France or elsewhere in Europe? And if there isn't, why? In terms of the number of space actors who, by the way, this multiplication encourages cooperation, at least for peaceful activities or civil activities, which are now dominant. But I remember that when I was in the United Nations, the big question of space was the arms race in space. And the question of the arms control that Carl Keiser had earlier. It was the idea, it was the big debate on this subject. So today I think that military situations have not decreased. And space is still decisive for communications, for surveillance, for military operations, for nuclear destruction. And the treaty of 67, which remains today the space chart, which contains some principles, which are simple principles and principles that have so far been respected, the question I ask the experts is, is this treaty sufficient today? Because it is essentially devoted to military issues. It is very precise in terms of the non-proliferation of weapons in space, and even the interdiction of placing massive weapons in space. But it is very elliptical on the rest. So is this treaty sufficient today for the users? Or is it required to be transformed? Because it was actually concluded between the United States and the USSR. And it is possible that it does not respond exactly to the needs of current utilizations. That is why I would be very happy to have the point of view of the panelists. Thank you, sir. Last question, Daniel Handler. I'll be brief because the two previous speakers were excellent questions. So first of all, I'm not entirely reassured by the fact that right now the non-military activities seem to predominate. I wonder whether when push comes to shove, the military won't sort of take hold of the field and make it go in the direction it wants. So that's my first question. My second question is about cluttering. I've heard that there's a big problem of satellites cluttering the space and how that problem will be solved. And the third one has a little bit to do with the fact that there are limited resources. And I was wondering whether, especially Philippe Baptiste, thought that we had the right sort of young inventive engineers and scientists to really fuel progress in the space field or whether we should start thinking about new ways of training our young engineers and scientists. Thank you. Thank you, Daniel. So I would like to give you the last word. So I give the floor to Philippe. Thank you very much. Each of the questions deserves a long debate. Maybe a few elements. Do we feel a competition, for example, between the questions around fusion, sorry, switched to English? Do we feel that there is some kind of competition of resources, of funding between a research program on energy like fusion, for instance, and space? I would say the answer is no, not directly. And typically I would say that the countries that invest the most in either program also invest the most in the other one, because basically those countries are the countries that do believe in technology and do believe in the fact that technology can really change the world. So I'm not really scared by this competition of funding. I would say it really goes in the same direction. Just perhaps a word on militarization of space. This is, of course, a big issue. I just want, if I just perhaps focus, the question is very wide, but if I just want to focus on launcher, which is only a subset. But today I think that we have worldwide something like 250 companies, either small ones, startups, or larger ones, that wants to develop a mini launcher. So a mini launcher is really very close to a ballistic missile. So the question of proliferation and the question of how do you manage this technology, I mean of course the rules are the same and all big countries will do their best to monitor what happens and to forbid some kind of lots of technologies to avoid this kind of usage of launchers. But still the question will be there because when you have so many actors who are developing technologies everywhere in the world, I mean this question will be really key. Again I go very fast because we are out of time, but the question of debris and the question of how do we manage pollution in space is a key question, especially in low Earth orbit. So the orbit which is very close to Earth and where you have an incredible increase of the number of satellites there, it's an exponential low, it goes very very fast and we will be in trouble. The question is not to know whether yes or no we will be in trouble, the question is to know when we will be in trouble, trouble meaning collision. And collision meaning that you have much more debris and the probability of collision which is heavier again. So the question is how do we regulate space? We at some point this question has to come and I think that we have limited choice, we have to think about that and we cannot only rely on good wills of private actors. There has to be some kind of global strategy, worldwide strategy on this question. Perhaps finally to answer the question on private investors and if I can reformulate the question, the question was basically where are they in Europe? I would say that we have limited number of private, of people, of billionaires who do invest in space, at least in France, I'm afraid I know none of them right now but I hope they will come very soon. Still we have a lot of companies that invest in space and we have many new, I'm not talking only about Airbus and Thales which are giants and which are key players in space but they are also new ones. Let me mention for instance Kineis which is a young company which manufactures small satellites for many different usage, especially IoT. It's very young, it's very dynamic, it comes with very low price. So I'm pretty sure it will be very, very successful soon. Well, there are many of them. Still I really believe that we have to put much more effort in this new space sector because it will really boost space, technology all over the society and it's a huge economic growth too. So we will invest a lot of them. Thank you very much, Madame. I think we touched, if I got this correctly, the questions were across three different streams. One with regards to militarising space and proliferation space. It's about each actor being responsible for what we've all signed on. There will be more and more companies up and coming around the world like you were mentioning and it's about how the local regulations reflect the intentions of the countries in terms of proliferation of space. On the aspect of the private sector, I think it was specific to Europe but for the private sector itself what it gives us and what we've seen that it gives us is new innovations because these companies are up and starting and they develop things different than it's typically developed in agencies that have been around for 40 and 50 years. Space I think is as innovative as it is, it's a highly indoctrined mechanism of design and development especially in larger institutions and a lot of it is inherited from failed missions. There are policies and procedures that some entities are following that are from failed missions in the 70s as an example. When you get new entrants into space, countries that are entering new link to space or companies that are entering new space, they don't have those baggage of what I call relationships that went wrong. They can start a fresh page and therefore they're able to innovate a development. Therefore there needs to be a nice balance between the two. What we need to see in terms of investment, I know there's a big hype in investment, parts of it are hype, parts of it are real. What we need to play as space agencies is ensuring the sustainability of the real investment to carry through over the course of the next decade because that's the way that we're able to develop new mechanisms of retraining engineers and new mechanisms of thinking in terms of space systems development. We can find better products and services coming to space and we can find a solution to the clutter that we have in low earth orbit because what we can bring to the table today is discussions on a policy front and an international policy front. The real innovation will come in ensuring that we're accessing space. Finding out early if there's collisions but more importantly understanding better how do you in a low-cost manner declutter space and that's an innovation that will come from the private sector and I don't think we have concepts but no solutions that are real for those. I hope I did answer the three questions but that's what I got from those. Thank you very, very much for this very interesting and stimulating discussion. I can assure you that in the coming years the issues of technology, space in particular will play an increasing role in this world policy conference but in a world policy conference there is the word policy and it seems to me that we are I would say at the beginning of a collective reflection on how policy should be approached. We have spoken a lot in other sessions of the idea of flexible alliances, cooperation all that in a world that we want all of us, the middle powers to remain as open as possible but I like to call it reasonably open and there is a lot of work to do to become more operational in these extremely exciting fields. So I can tell you that for myself I am not a candidate for a trip in the extra atmosphere even if I were a billionaire and even less a candidate for Mars when the day comes I will be elsewhere. Thank you very much indeed.


Shooter's ready. 1340 yards, send it. Right edge, upper right edge. Nice. Shooter's ready. Lower left, nice job. Hit. One minute left, perfect elevation. 1340 yards, send it. Nice. Shooter ready. Send it. Shooter ready. Send it. 1340 yards. Bring to it, I love it. Okay, let's see if I can get... Now that I'm holding correctly... Two of those were on... We'll edit that out. These are all first round. The first shot hits. Exactly. Those were tending to the left side, by the way. High? High and right. I'd say high one minute, right one minute. Right at the top of the bush at the upper right corner. Shooter ready. Send it. Shooter ready. Send it. Hit. Shooter ready. Send it. Third hit in a row, 1340 yards. Coming up on the target we were shooting at, at 1340 yards. We've got a number of hits here. Look at that. This was a beautiful solid green before we got started. And now it's even more beautiful. So at the 6.5 Creedmoor at 1340 yards. And Scott was being kind of a smart aleck and decided to get the pole. That was his shot there, just to show me he could do it. Yeah, but you shot the ribbon. Yeah, I knocked the ribbon off, exactly.


Started your Christmas shopping yet? Worried about where the money's coming from? Want to get away from it all? We offer you escape. You were seated around a green felt table with a dozen desperate men waiting for the turn of a card. If it's the ace of spades, you will be next. And you desperately desire the impossible. Escape. Produced and directed by William M. Robeson and carefully plotted to free you from the four walls of today for a half hour of high adventure. Tonight we escape to London of the last century. A London of gas lights and handsome cabs. A London where a gentleman still valued his word of honour above his life. A London of which one terrifying incident is recorded by Robert Louis Stevenson and his unforgettable story, the young man with the cream tarts. Oh, bored? Oh, rather. City seems to awful little amusement tonight. Well, bottoms up. Let's be on our way. Righto, your help and yours. Gentlemen, please have a cream tart. It's absolutely free by condiments. Madam, will you honour me? Well now, what's this? Young man with a tray of cream tarts. He's giving them away. Perhaps one of the turns on the bill. Perhaps. Shall we go? Here's let's. I pray you accept this confection for if you do not, I am bound to eat it myself. You must be crazy. I was never more sane. I do. There's nothing for it. My twenty seventh tart since five o'clock. Now there are but two left. You, sir. Yes? Will you so far honour an entire stranger? Truly excellent pastry. I should know I've eaten enough of them. It is not the nature of a gift that is important, but the spirit in which it is offered. The spirit, sir, is one of mockery. Mockery? And whom do you mock? Myself. However, my purpose at the moment is not confection, but rather distribution of these cream tarts. Won't you and your friend dispose of the last of them? Yes. Yes, on one condition. If my friend and I eat your last two cakes, we shall expect you to join us at supper. Supper? It's a horrible thought. I've already eaten two dozen of these pastries. Very well, then we shall omit supper. And become better acquainted over a bottle of wine. I'm uncertain whether my repugnance for these two remaining tarts or the attraction of your invitation compels me. But I accept. Excellent. Then let us finish off your pastry and seek a more quiet place. How about Michel's in Soho? Splendid. Shall we go? Excellent wine and two excellent friends. I drink to your health. And we drink to yours. I'm sure you will understand my curiosity. But you are curious. Naturally.  Indeed. You may rest assured that we are two of the silliest men in England. My name is Godal, the awfulest Godal, and my friend here is Major Alfred Hammersmith.  I'm true Major Hammersmith, though I suspect those are not your right names. It is of no importance. Exactly, nor is my name, so I will not divulge it. Although I see no reason why I should deny you my story. It's brief and foolish. Pray tell us, then. It's an off-told tale. The oldest fortune which I squandered in the usual ways at cards, the horse races in Paris. Then two months ago I met a young lady exactly suited to my taste in mind and body. My heart melted. I was in love too late. Yesterday my solicitor warned me that I had but a hundred pounds left in the world. Forty of these I used last night for a special purpose. And I have agreeably spent the day disposing of the remaining sixty pounds in his foolish manner as I could devise. And the future? The future has been taken care of by the forty pounds. Is it not odd that we three should have met by the nearest accident in so large a wilderness as London and be so nearly in the same condition? Yes. Major Hammersmith, I was thinking the very same thing. What's this? Are you two also ruined? Is this bottle of excellent wine the last folly, like my cream tots? Very nearly so. I'm perhaps a week behind you. I still have a few banknotes in my wallet, however. Here now, this bill will take care of the bottle of wine and the others I throw into the fire. Oh, no. You shouldn't have burned all of them. You should have kept forty pounds. Forty pounds? Why? Why not fifty or seventy? For to my certain knowledge there were more than a hundred in his wallet. It was only just forty pounds he needed. But without them there is no admission. The rule is strict. What do you mean? I have not yet completely emptied my pocketbook. You are not fooling me. You are indeed ruined, men, like me. Oh, indeed. Could you muster eighty pounds between you? Well, let me look in my wallet. Yes, eighty and a little over. Then you're indeed most fortunate. Forty pounds each is the initiation fee of the Suicide Club. The Suicide Club? What the devil is that? The Suicide Club is death's private door. It's the ultimate convenience in our modern world. It exists for unfortunates like us. Those to whom the painful agony of corrosive poison is distasteful. For those whose courage fails them when the cold muzzle chills the forehead. For those whose fear of drowning is greater than the compulsion to die. For these sensitive misfits the Suicide Club ranges every detail. If you are truly tired of life I will introduce you tonight to a meeting and I can assure you that within the week you will be relieved of the burden of living. What do you say? It's more serious than a cream tart and I suspect more palatable. More serious, certainly. So I wonder if you would give Mr. Goodall and me five minutes alone to discuss it. Certainly. I shall wait outside. Your Highness, this adventure must stop here. Nonsense, Colonel Geraldine. I propose to see this through. See it through to what? Death? You forget your obligations. Not only to yourself but to your country. Prince Floresel of Bohemia cannot risk... Tonight I am plain, Mr. Goodall. And so I propose to remain. And please remember, Colonel Geraldine, under no circumstances are you to betray my incognito. But your Highness... We have survived graver adventures than this one promises to be. And now, Colonel Geraldine, let us pay our bill in a company our young wastrel to. Death's private door. Here you are, Governor. Box court. Gentlemen, we have arrived. Here you are, Cabbie. Keep the change. Oh, thank you, sir. Come on. Well, Mr. Goodall, Major Hammersmith, there is still time to change your minds. Lead on, sir. My mind's made up. And mine. Follow me then. Just dark as a tomb. An apt and concise simile. Here we are, gentlemen. At death's private door. Shall we enter? Pray let's. You may hang your things in here. If you'll be good enough to wait, I shall call the President. Of all our farries, this is the wildest and most dangerous. I'm beginning to believe you're right. Let me beseech your Highness... Do not forget you are my aide-de-con. Not your father. Yet I am responsible to the King for your well-being. Colonel Geraldine, you're not afraid. Certainly not for myself, but for your Highness. The President will see you in his office. I have vouch for you, but you must give him honest answers. The indiscretion of a single member might lead to the dispersion of the society forever. He can't afford to take that risk. Follow me. In here. He's waiting for you. Good evening. I am told that you wish to speak to me. We have a desire, sir, to join the suicide club. Sir, you've made a mistake. This is a private house, and you must leave it instantly. We have come here upon the invitation of a friend of yours. He's already told you of our desires. And believe me, sir, when one has come this far along the path, one is not likely to be turned away and certainly will tolerate little rudeness.  Well, now, that's more like it. This is no place for men not yet desperate. I believe you, sir. But what of your friend? My reasons are even more cogent than Mr. Goodall's. I, uh... I was cash-shared out of my regiment last week. Why? Cheating at cards. I see. And you, sir, what is your reason for being tired of life? An adulterated laziness. Don't trifle with me, sir. You must have a better reason than that. I have no more money.  If I did not have a great deal of experience in these matters, I would turn you down. But I have learned that the most frivolous excuses for a suicide often cover a deep and lifelong desire for self-destruction. Thank you for your understanding, sir. Very well. To business. I shall read you the oath of membership to which you will each subscribe. I swear to obey without question the instructions of the president of this association, or any of his appointed deputies. Realizing that desirable death could scarcely be a penalty for violating this oath, I am aware that any violation will be met at the discretion of the president by those means deemed suitable by him. Namely, excommunication from the church, loss of whatever honor still attaches to my name, and or, when necessary, violent reprisals against my bereaved family. In full knowledge of the sacredness of this oath, I subscribe my name. Well, gentlemen, you are in a position to enforce those penalties. I am. Hand me the pen. My friend. The pen, please. Major Hammersmith. Thank you. That will be 40 pounds of peace, please. Here you are. Thank you. And now would you like to join the members in the smoking room? Indeed we would. This way, please. Just make yourself at home. Everyone's quite informed of him. If you'll pardon me, I have some other matters to attend to. Come along, Major. Let's mingle with the company. Your Highness, be quiet. Oh, there you are. You've got in all right, I see. Naturally. You'll never regret it. I'm sure we shall. You care for a game of bellards or perhaps some mists? No, not immediately, thank you. I'd like just to wander around and listen to the conversation. You'll find it most revealing, you understand? She had always stood in the way of anything I wanted to do, and I don't care if she was my mother. She crossed me one time too often. You may be sure that I would never have joined this wretched club if I had not read the origin of the species by Darwin. I could not bear to be descended from an ape. Certainly I have. There are some men who cannot abide the restrictions of the monastery, and after the abbot discovered me, there was nothing I could do. It's incomprehensible to me. Why, this talk, this boasting, the self-justification.  Be done with the matter. As I told you, there are some of us more frightened of the act than of the result. There's only one man in this room who does not seem to be in a state of hysteria. Who is that, Mr. Godot? The gentleman sitting on the devan. Oh yes, yes, Mr. Malthus. Would you like to meet him? Yes, please. His others are too obvious. There's nothing very subtle about Mr. Malthus. He looks like death himself wearing thick eyeglasses. Let us discover for ourselves the reason for his relaxation. Mr. Malthus. Eh? I should like to present two new members, Mr. Godot, and Major Hammersmith. How do you do, gentlemen? How do you do? It's a pleasure, sir.  You come us. You come us. I envy you the novelty of your first visit. You will learn to relish it if you're spared. Why, my dear sir, this club, gentlemen, is the temple of intoxication. If my health would permit it, you may be sure I would be here more often. For this is my last dissipation. Believe me, sir, I have tried them all, all the vices. People trifle with love and ignorantly call it man's most powerful passion. Nonsense, sir. Nonsense. Fear. Fear is the strongest passion. It is fear that you must trifle with if you wish to taste the intense joys of living. Envy me, sir. Envy me.  How, sir, is the excitement so artfully prolonged? Oh, of course, of course. I must tell you how the victim for every evening is selected, as well as the member who is to be death's high priest for the occasion. Great heavens.  The guilt of suicide is removed in that way. I, or my friend, or you, any of us, might be selected this evening to murder another man. Exactly. But how have they escaped the attentions of the law? Ah, the ingenuity of our president knows no limits. The departures always appear to be accidental. It's monstrous. On the contrary, my dear major, it is godlike. Oh, yes, yes, of course. But Mr. Malthus, I am still in the dark as to how the members are selected for the evening's work. Oh, of course. I forgot to explain. But I see that the others are filing into the card room now, and the play is about to begin. You shall see for yourself. Will you lend me the help of your arm? I'm quite paralyzed, you know. Oh, of course. Thank you. Ah, this is the moment for which I live. The quintessence of poignancy. The ultimate of passion. Coming here as infrequently as I do, I've savoured this bitter taste of fear longer than the others. But my turn will come. Who knows? Perhaps night. But how is it done? Tell us what to expect. Oh, it's so simple. The president deals from an ordinary deck, playing cards, and each man turns up his card as he receives it. The ace of spades, the card of death. The ace of clubs designates the official of the night. The murderer. If you like. Here are three chairs together. Happy. Happy, young men. You have good eyes and can follow the cards. I can only make out the faces. Is everyone here? My friend, we still have a fighting chance to escape. Quiet. Let us play the game. Attention, gentlemen. Three clubs. Jack of Hearts. Ten of diamonds. King of clubs. Queen of hearts. Three of spades. Nine of clubs. Six of spades. It's our young man of the cream tarts. He's drawn the ace of clubs. I came here to be killed, not to kill. I wanted that. Gentlemen. I must caution the members against such unseemly adversities. I don't want that. Since the ace of spades has not yet turned up, I will continue the deal. Eight of hearts. Seven of clubs. King of diamonds. Jack of spades. Ace. Eight. Mr. Malthus. That concludes the play for the night, gentlemen. Will the member who drew the ace of clubs come to my office for his instructions? Yes. Good morning, Roderick. Good morning, sir. Oh, I shall have my breakfast in bed this morning. Yes, Your Highness. And Colonel Geraldine has been waiting for you to awaken me. Oh, very well. Show him in. Thank you, Your Highness, sir. Colonel, His Highness will see you now. Good morning, Geraldine. Sleep well. Not too well. Did I dream it or were we initiated into the suicide club last night? Seems like a nightmare. It was a nightmare. But you didn't dream it. Here. Look at this. The morning paper. Melancholy accident. This morning, about two o'clock, Mr. Bartholomew Malthus of 16 Chepstow Place, Westburn Grove, on his way home from a party at a friend's house fell off the upper parapet in Trafalgar Square, fracturing his skull. Death was instantaneous. Mr. Malthus, accompanied by a friend, was engaged in looking for a cab at the time. If ever a soul went straight to hell, it was that poor paralytic. Yes, at least he's dead and out of it. But think of our young man of the cream tarts. Last night that lad was as innocent as you and I. This morning he is a murderer. Thank heavens we're safely out of it. Are we? No. You're not going to return. I must. You are infected with a passion of fear just as poor Malthus was. Perhaps. Whatever it is. Tonight, once more, we take our places at the table of the suicide club. Good evening. Good evening, Mr. Goodall. Back again to try your luck? Yes, indeed. And Major Hammersmith? Good evening. You are to be congratulated, sir, on the matter of Mr. Malthus. Very neatly handled. Thank you. But I shall miss poor old Malthy. He was a man I could talk to. Yes, your bereavement must weigh heavily upon you. Indeed it does, sir. But then it's all in the game. And now you will pardon me. We will sit down to play directly. The fiend, the foul fiend of hell. Steady, my friend. Once more, let me plead with you.  Sorry, tiresome tonight. Oh, here's our young friend of the cream tarts. Good evening, old chap. Oh, Mr. Goodall, Major Hammersmith. Oh, how I wish I'd never brought you to this infamous place, oh, leave. Leave while your hands are still clean. But our oath. We could not go back upon our oath. Well, renounce it. Forget everything. Let them do their worst, but leave. Leave before it's too late. If you could have heard the old man scream as I pushed him from the parapet, the crunch of his brittle bones as he furried to the pavement. Yes, I perceive the dealing is about to begin. Shall we go in? Yeah. Mr. Goodall, if you have any kindness in your soul, wish the ace of spades for me tonight. There's nothing left for me but to die. Attention, gentlemen. Three of hearts. Queen of spades. Ace of diamonds.  We are just 13. This at the table. This fourth round. This will, this will tell the tale. And I am next to last. Only four more guards. King of spades. Pray for me, Mr. Goodall. Pray for me. I have one chance in three. Pray that I get the ace. Six of diamonds. I have one chance in two. My friend, don't. Silence. Ace of spades. Very well. That concludes tonight's play, gentlemen. Oh, Mr. Goodall. I'd give a million if I had it for your luck. I would sell you this card for much less if I could. Well, well, Mr. Goodall, my congratulations. I am pleased to have met you, sir, and to have been in the position to do you this trifling service. At least you can't complain of delay. Yes, yes. And now before I leave forever, I should like to ask a question.  But you wonder what would happen if you did. If, upon the turning of the card, you had changed your mind and now wished to live? Precisely. Suppose my friend, Major Hammersmith, and I elected to ignore our oath. Suppose we began by tearing this place apart. You wouldn't even get started. The guests themselves are desperate men, but if they did not stop you, the servants who were even more desperate would. You would never leave this house alive. I see. Well, it was purely an academic question. Naturally. Very well then. What are my instructions? You will proceed along the strand in the direction of the city and the left-hand pavement until you come upon a black carriage with drawn curtains. In this carriage will be the member who was tonight drawn the ace of clubs. My executioner. Your collaborator and suicide. You will enter the carriage and he will continue your instructions. Please have the kindness to obey him in every detail. The authority of the club is vested in his person for the night. I wish you a pleasant walk. Thank you. But first I must say farewell to my friend, Major Hammersmith. I regret that is strictly against the rules. No farewells. Too disturbing for the still living members. You will leave through this side door to the workroom. But I must have... We won't have any trouble now, will we, Mr. Goodall? No. No, of course not. Your coat and hat. Your stick. Thank you. Again, Mr. Goodall. A most pleasant walk. Death's private door. Why didn't I listen to Geraldine before it was too late? What is this? My instructions are to meet the coach in the strand. You'll take this coach right now. Go on fire. Take this one away.  Geraldine. Oh, my friend. It was quite necessary under the circumstances. As soon as you turned up the ace of spades, I slipped out of the house to prepare for your escape. But how did you manage it? When I realized I could not dissuade you from attending the club tonight, I retained the services of a certain capable and reliable private detective. But his secrecy has been bought and paid for. His men are now raiding this suicide club. The members will be removed to your townhouse, where it remains for you to pass judgment upon them. That I will gladly do. And with the utmost dispatch. What have they brought us here for? They didn't look like Scotland yard men to me. What difference does it make? Perhaps this will be a quicker way out. Gentlemen. Why, that's my friend Major Hammesmith. His Royal Highness Prince Floresel of Bohemia. Why, that's Mr. Godot. Always thought there was something odd about those two. Gentlemen. Tonight, we have removed you from a house of death, to a house of life and hope. Those of you who have come to your present condition, through lack of fortune, who receive employment and remuneration from my treasury, those who have been driven to this unnatural solution of their problems, by the agonies of guilt, must find amnesty from a power greater than mine. Power that eternally promises the forgiveness of sins, no matter how grievous.  Where is he? Where is the president of the club? Colonel Geraldine. Why, he should be here, Your Highness. Well, begon Your Highness's pardon. Who's this man, Geraldine? The chief of the detectives. Yes? What is it? Was you referring to the sallow chap with the sword whiskies and the black suit? Yes, that's the one. The president of the suicide club. Where is he? He ain't here. Why not? Well, when we broke into the little office down there at the club, we found him sprawled over the desk with a little empty bottle in his hand. He'd committed suicide. Escape is produced and directed by William M. Robeson, and tonight brought you The Young Man with the Cream Tarts by Robert Louis Stevenson, adapted for radio by Mr. Robeson, with Paul Freese as Prince Florizel, Bill Johnstone as Colonel Geraldine, and Barton Yarborough as The Young Man. The special musical score was conceived and conducted by Cy Fuhrer. Next week? After you've put in a tough day at the office or leaning over a hot stove, when your four walls seem to be closing in on you, next week when you want to get away from it all, we offer you escape. This is CBS, the Columbia Broadcasting System.


Live from Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Linux Foundation, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. Hey, welcome back everyone. We are live here in Austin, Texas for the theCUBE exclusive coverage of the CloudNativeCon and KubeCon, KubernetesCon North America 2017. I'm John Furrier, wrapping up the show with two days of live coverage. Here with Stu Miniman and Justin Warren, analysts with theCUBE. Guys, you guys are out in the hallways. Justin, you're at all the sessions. Still, we've been doing interviews. Great show. Second year, full year, was a standalone show. It was kind of, you know, a small show last year, but really amazing size, 4500 people or so. A lot of logos, diamond sponsors, platinum sponsors, gold sponsors, silver sponsors, startup sponsors, media partners. It's a freaking commercial party, yet tons of developers, tons of action, so it's not so much a vendor show, a lot of vendor interest in what is the A-list developers in this new way to program, new way to build services from lift donating massive envoy code, Google bringing in massive code, a lot of contributions, a lot of energy, a lot of tech action. Let's wrap it up. Stu. Yeah, so John, first of all, we had covered the show last year. You had gone done it. I've seen the buzz around Kubernetes, so I had a certain expectation, and actually, I'd say the show exceeded my expectation. Dan Kona told us we're going to have over 4,000 people, so it wasn't the size of it, but just the quality of the people and the interactions here. We've been in other shows over the years with theCUBE where you've had those builders and smart people, but wow, you walk around here, people that have done some of these things many times, and as we were talking with a number of them, it's, there's some of this infrastructure and really trying to solve some of these things and make infrastructure boring, that we've been beating on for years, as well as it's really helping the applications, and I like that this really kind of bridges those environments, because infrastructure's always known. The reason we have infrastructure is to help the applications, and for too long, infrastructure's been this boat anchor, and smart people who've been through lots of battles before, and it feels a little different. It feels like we're making some progress. Justin and I were talking ahead of the show, I remember when we wrapped up Amazon last week, it was like serverless holds a lot of promise. Well, serverless does not eclipse all of the cloud native and Kubernetes stuff here. We're actually seeing some of the intersection, I know I want to hear Justin's take on some of it, but a lot of good things, let's just jump in here, Justin, 250 sessions here. They're all online, by the way, on their YouTube channel for the CNCF. You had a chance to kind of walk the hallways, go to some sessions, what did you find, what was exciting, what was the notable points? The conversations here have been spectacular, I agree with Stu, the quality of the attendees from customers, from people who are building the things, from vendors, it's really, really high quality stuff. The sessions are really technical, it depends on which part of the ecosystem you want to dive into, so there's not as much entry level and high level stuff. So people who are involved in this ecosystem know what they're doing. So it'll be interesting to see how that changes over the next couple of years. I expect that there's going to be a bit more intro level thing, although boring is the new exciting. So maybe there will be no need to do a lot of the intro stuff because it will be abstracted away. So there's a lot of projects that are basically about making everything easy. That is the goal, that's what I'm hearing around the conference today and there's lots of, we saw in the keynote yesterday, the idea of metaparticle, which is basically layering extra layers of abstraction on top of Kubernetes. We saw it again in the keynote with Chen today, where they're trying to put different services on top of Kubernetes. So essentially, Kubernetes goes away and just becomes invisible. It's like plumbing. Clayton Coleman mentioned that from Red Hat, making containers boring. I agree, boring is the new black. That means boring is working. That's foundational. To me, I think I'm excited by the fact that there's not a lot of land grabbing, so to speak, going on by the vendors. It's very foundational tech and people are focused on don't screw it up. Let's, we got a good thing going on here with Kubernetes. That's kind of the vibe I'm sensing and then the excitement of opportunity. There seems to be a lot of that. Anything jump out at you, Justin, on in terms of tech, hallway conversations, notable emerging projects? What catches your eye? As a catching up with Stu, just before the show, we were talking about what are you looking forward to? And for me, two of the big things was serverless and storage, like state management. And I agree with Stu. Those are the two things that still aren't really solved. I just came from the serverless working group just before coming on here. And there are still a whole bunch of foundational questions about what serverless actually is. Is it functions as a service? Is it more than that? Does S3 count as something which is serverless because you don't actually care about which server you're hitting. Maybe that's serverless. So there's still a lot of work to be done there about defining what that looks like and creating some standards around things. Standards is apparently a dirty word which I thought was a bit strange that this whole idea of, well, standards are great. Even it is great. It's a standard which allows you to build other things on top of that. I think we're going to see more and more of that. That's what we've seen with Kubernetes. That's one of the great benefits of having this standardized thing run by CNCF is everyone else can take that off the table as a competitive thing. So we're not trying to outdo each other and be more Kubernetes than anyone else. Instead, people are building things on top of that. So we're seeing storage providers like Diamonte. We're seeing networking providers who are doing things with Istio and Weaveworks. So that ecosystem is being deliberately created by taking some of that competitive pressure off the table. I got, that's a great point. I want to bring that up, Stu, I want to get your thoughts on this because we interviewed Ben Singleman from Lightstep. Lightstep. And he's a super smart guy, great conversation. But one of the things I asked him about is innovation around communities.  You mentioned Ethernet. A lot of the OSI model was formulated because if you didn't standardize, there was no outcome for anybody. So there's that kind of going on with Kubernetes where it's just come together. Let's, it should be a good word. And it was done deliberately. I was again talking with Chen like community is kind of a buzzword of the conference. There are specific things that have been done to build a community here. It's not just about technology, it's about the people. And we've got things like the diversity scholarships that we saw on the first day where 103 people were sponsored to come here and be at this conference. Yeah, I come into something like that a little bit skeptical and you want to poke at things. Coming off of the Amazon show, there are many people that are scared of Amazon. This show, everybody's actually really happy and they're like, great. It's no longer, Adrian made it, made a comment to us. He's like, it's not the everybody but Amazon club. They're here and everybody's actually happy they're here. Now, some of the things they're doing will still kind of play out over time, but community is real. John, the amount of smart men and women that we talked to here blew my mind. I mean, Chen, who we just had on, you mentioned some of the other guests we've had on just super high quality, you know, just density. You brought up a good point. This is something that we didn't talk about. It's good to bring it up. Amazon, yes, last week we were talking about the Amazon, how they're winning and everything else. Everyone's reacting to Amazon and this show is reacting to Amazon in a positive way because the culture here, they're from the same tech religion if you want to call it a religion. They're cloud native. They buy the Amazon value proposition. So it's not like this is an anti-Amazon crowd. If anything, they're all going, hey, thank you, Amazon. Keep validating microservices. I mean, why would you? It is very much a yes and. I was like, cloud, great. What else can we do? Let's do more of that. Let's layer things on top of this cloud thing and let's, in fact, go multi-cloud. Let's cloud all the things. Yeah, and the competition strategy is going to be interesting by the advantage and what's great is that they're enabling stuff. So to me, we're going to see where the value will be created. Obviously the software engineering piece is going to be a big definition. I think the word software engineering now means something. If you look at all the tech here, it's software engineering and then the application developers are application developers. They're not engineering plumbing, right? So you're going to start to see that kind of role so this new ecosystem might emerge. You guys' reaction to that. I mean, John, look, Kubernetes commoditized. It's no longer, you know, there's not the orchestration wars. We've talked about this coming in. One of the things that surprised me is, as Kelsey said on this keynote this morning, there actually wasn't any really big surprises. This community has a lot of transparency. So if you're plugged in, if you're talking to the people, we understand the roadmap. There's a lot of projects and nobody can keep up with all the changes, but some of the base pieces, we understand where that is. The service mesh piece, you know, huge participation. People go into the sessions. Everybody's interested in learning to it and there's so many pieces where people can contribute. Customers are getting value and it's still very, very early days. I love the line they said. It's like, hey, 4,100 people here. That's probably everyone running Kubernetes right now around the world. So, you know, John, how big is this going to get? You know, what do we say? I'd love to get Justin to take us. He was more in the hallways, but Justin kind of smelling the vibe here and kind of feeling it and reading the tea leaves. And if things, if they... I smell brisket. If the CNCF doesn't screw it up, which I don't think they will because Dan's very competent and they got a great team. I do agree with Justin. This is a community that was designed by the people first that have the right principles and know what they want and then will allow the tech to form. So I think we might see an easier decision around standards. If that all happens, things like standards and whatnot to make it grow, I think this could be a little mini reinvent going on here. So I feel a lot like reinvents do our first time there where we got all the best guests because it's such a small community. Now it's so popular we got it. They're all booked up and we're trying to grab guests. I think this could be as big as reinvent and not as now, but eventually this could be an industry event because if this all works out, you're going to see two major audiences. Those software engineering plumbers and then on the application side, that's going to be the business logic like they've been talking about. And then that's going to create value ecosystem, a third new constituency. If that happens, it's a services world and it's a 20,000 person show. Yeah, I can definitely see this growing into a big, big show. We don't have many industry independent shows anymore. Most of them are a particular vendor's ecosystem. This one is, yeah it's like Kubernetes came from Google, but the CNCF is an independent body. They're being very careful about which projects that they add in. I was speaking with a lot of the members of the founding board and they are being very careful to not make the same mistakes as happen with OpenStack. They've learned a lot of the lessons from OpenStack and other communities as well. So they're making some deliberate decisions based on experience and knowledge that they've gained from other places so that this will be sustainable and that it can grow into something really, really big. And I'll just add to your point there, Dan Cohen said on the opening keynote, they specifically designed it to be a technical event, not a business event. Yes. Stu, that takes the question. KubeCon with a C, C-U-B-E could be the business of Kubernetes. Ah, making a land grab. Putting it out there, not going to confuse you. You were predicted for 2018. KubeCon, not like that. We're bringing our best coverage. Guys, thanks for commenting. Last word, thoughts, the show. Sum it up, wrap it up. Kube, all the things. Yeah, I mean just impressive, John. After, you know, this is our last big event of the year.  You know, this community is something that comes out of this. We do community with the K, I guess, for Kubernetes, right? Community with the K, yeah. I think high quality, okay. Purposeful, high integrity, and smart. And I think that is a formula that will play well. Love the diversity, love all the action. Guys, great wrap up, Justin Stu. This is theCUBE here, wrapping up KubeCon, CloudNativeCon, North America 2017 in Austin, Texas. Thanks for watching, of course. Visit siliconangle.com and youtube.com, which has SiliconANGLE, thekube.net and wikibon.com. And special shout out to Red Hat for all the great support. Appreciate it and continued success to Red Hat. This is theCUBE signing off from Austin, Texas. Thanks for watching.