it is so early I'm not as sore as I thought it would be let's see how this goes these are my favorite socks Colorado flag and day of the dead in one oh it's a beautiful day I'm gonna take this bag over to the to the truck they transport it to the next place for us all right it's time to go to school oh hey it's my buddy Patrick that's going man even a good morning thank you very much all right let's do some running me feel like I'm gonna skew does running really suck on the descent ankles like I said knees it's it is tricky in section so just be very intentional about your foot placement marky mark is my favorite my favorite pump-up music marky mark that's 8.3 miles stage 2 I'm already sore it's an interesting feeling starting a race kind of sore and slow that's how I feel right now I'm thinking these next couple kilometers will shake it all out good news is my hips feel all right so we run up this road for about two miles and then we go up hope pass think about 3,000 feet of elevation gain the top of that baby will be about 12,000 feet not a whole lot of oxygen but just enough what's up girl I can't thank you enough for being here have a good one you know what I'm liking about this race is that there's a lot of peace and quiet out in nature a lot of the races I do burning man ultra javelina all the road races there's tons of people which is fun I love the energy and I'm kind of liking this just me in the trees that I wasn't paying attention to behind me that is beautiful my hips feel pretty good is one of those moments I'm just really proud to be a Colorado this is my state so fun to show it off all these people from around the world so bro where do you go when races get really hard where do you go mentally to get you through it you know deep down in the bayou no man just I mean today look how beautiful this is I mean this is what it's all about man just kind of ask how much you want it how much it means to you and it gets tough how you doing girl beautiful day so cam just got fifth place in Western states no big deal how was that you guys are doing awesome here we go I think we're at the top of hope pass congratulations everybody down hill is easier it's definitely sketchy and you can really one bad fall in your your race is over so I like to take it pretty chill I usually say this on my bike but no crashes no whammies no slip and fall on my face ease what this is it's a huge field of sage that smells so good I should pay attention that was close one that interlocking building is an old spot pretty cool it's still there Dexter's cabin look at that it's not every day you get the pedal armor hey buddy you're so cute doesn't mean LA John LA I think we're getting close-ish few kilometers away I love running through the grass and forest it's my favorite okay I am tired for sure but the good news is my hips aren't killing me like yesterday I love finish lines I love them so much this feels so good yes it's a pretty cool home for the night we're camping out on the the what is this the baseball field of the Leadville High School this is how I mark my tent with my Marabu chocolate towel if you're Swedish you know I'm talking about this is the best chocolate in the world I do think the laughter is because I'm trying not to cry it's pretty fine when the vendors get bored they break out the slingshots and try to hit beer cans off the picnic table yeah so here I am done with stage two and I got to say my body is in pain my legs are super sore the idea of four more days of this is kind of daunting and I'm used to adventures that go day after day after day but man two days in I'm already I'm hurting but I'm loving it the best part about this whole event are the people you know the vibe is just it's so fun I really really am enjoying all the people and so as long as my body stays somewhat you know in shape and capable of moving forward I will be able to finish this whole thing and end up in beaver creep creep beaver creek very happy it's freezing here in Leadville my poor little feet got a blister there starting one there going with another pair of Colorado socks because I love Colorado this is where I do some of my best pre-race thinking it's quiet doesn't smell all that great but you know it's a good place to get in a zone my body is definitely feeling the aches and pains of running for for two days already today's number three today is 25 miles not nearly the elevation gain like yesterday but you know 25 miles of 25 miles every hard this start line is becoming a familiar scene day after day after day it's kind of like Groundhog Day you're like have I already done this but no I have to do this four more times Christmas there's nice there's not a lot of air but what air there is is nice I'm running right now with my new friend Elliot how's it going that's true good point Elliot you seem a lot younger than me how old are you 17 that's amazing who did you get in front of me yeah yeah buddy he's everywhere we're running today the Camp Hale and Camp Hale is the area where they trained the 10th Mountain Division the ski warriors before World War two when they went and fought in Italy the Alps and my grandpa was an honorary member of the 10th Mountain and he took me up here once when I was a little dude I was only in I was only six years old and he took me up here was all of the guys from the 10th Mountain Division then we went on a cross-country hut to hut ski trip and that really was kind of my first taste of adventure and when the members of the 10th Mountain Division came back after the war some of those guys were responsible for starting the ski industry in Colorado ski cooper is right around the corner I think one of the guys started veil so we can thank the 10th Mountain Division for for skiing really as Jens Voigt the cyclist would always say shut up legs shut up that's what I'm telling my legs right now shut the hell up it's amazing how it goes from very cold to pretty darn warm pretty quickly once that sun gets up in the sky what's up you're always right where I need you to be at the hard hill thanks for cheering us on again I'm gonna try to run what do we have here you have saw our patch kids my favorite I love age stations they always make me happy always full of good people some nice flowers going off right now a lot of wildflowers all right well I guess we're going swimming oh that's cold I hear those crocodiles in here be careful it's not my favorite thing to run in sopping white shoes but you know what it's adventure time overall I feel pretty good just tired yeah just plain old tired this is a test for sure aid station I almost never drink coke because it has caffeine and I don't usually need caffeine to get me going today is a very peaceful day I've been running alone for most of it I'm not quite fast enough to be with the fast fast guys but I'm kind of right right behind them all in front of all the others it's been it's been tough but I'm just moving forward that's that's the best thing you can do right now it's just one foot in front of the other look both way before we cross the train track all clear ah here's my new friend Joe from Scotland how's it going it's good so beautiful out here it is welcome to Colorado and the company's great too I don't know if she's talking about me maybe somebody else the snakes yeah exactly this would be a great trail to my bike my legs feel pretty good it only takes about 20 miles to get warmed up I guess those are all the bunkers from camp hail that's pretty cool all right I have three miles to go that's a 5k that's easy right maybe not so easy after 20 miles walking really wobbly three stages down three to go this is a pretty awesome camp look at this look where the tents are it's gonna be a good one it's really hard for me right now to even bend down to pick up anything my legs are so damn sore hopefully I saved enough energy for the next three days there really is no easy day on this whole thing every day has its own challenges but I'm so excited to be done laying in this grass this is a great spot I've been talking up this beer mile 8 30 and I'm exhausted I went to bed last night 9 p.m. slept till about 5 so I'm getting a lot of sleep my body needs it I have not been this tired in a long long time this thing is beating me up hopefully at night sleep well we'll make me feel a little bit better I do know I'm definitely gonna wake up sore I'm gonna start the race sore again but that just seems to be the name of the game here at TransRocky's. Buenas noches


Darring Walter Brennan in 10 in Texas on the Cable Cade of America sponsored by the DuPont Company. Maker of better things for better living through chemistry. But first here is Gaines Whitman. This evening I'd like to say a word about New Year's resolutions. Some of yours are probably concerned with home improvement. To help you make your home beautiful, we suggest speedy-Z wall finish. Speedy-Z saves time and money because it rides in just one hour. Because you can get those rooms done so quickly and it costs less than $3 due over the average room in one color. Speedy-Z comes in 11 beautiful colors to suit the most convenient decorator. With a large brush or roller, you can apply speedy-Z over most interior wall surfaces including wallpaper. Start the New Year off with a cheerful house. Use speedy-Z. One of DuPont's better things for better living through chemistry. The DuPont Company presents 10 in Texas. Darring Walter Brennan has Lens Struthers on the Cable Cade of America. Every year in August, there's a cowboy reunion at Bell Heart, Texas, where old hands of the biggest ranch America ever knew gather to swap tall tales of the bad days in frontier Texas and to sing the songs they used to sing while herding longhorn cattle across 3 million acres of panhandle rain. Should you pause to inquire into the history of the fabulous XIT Ranch, you'd be directed to the leanest and leatheriest of the cowfolds. Here he comes, Old and Struthers. Watch him now. He'll unscrewing the makings, roll the cigarette and sit back and tell you the story of the big ranch that changed the West. Well, see, King Ranch in South Texas is big, but the old XIT Ranch is three times bigger. Way back in 1870, our state legislature decided we needed a new capital building. It's the Austin. So one of our representatives had an idea. Ladies and gentlemen of the legislature, the sovereign state of Texas should have a new state house. A state house taken in size and magnificent, only to that of the capital in Washington. Very well spoken, sir, but what do we use for money? Gentlemen, gentlemen, what does Texas have more of than anything on earth? Beauty, brains and courage. Texas has an abundance of beauty, brains and courage, but the thing we got the most of is land. Now I propose, I propose we offer 3 million acres of the panhandle to anyone who will build us a capital building worthy of the Lone Star State. Gentlemen, is that all we can offer so generous a party? That's a hand of privilege for becoming a Texas. Some years later, a couple of the Chicago Wholesale merchants, John and Charles Farwell, took up the offer. They signed a contract out even seeing the land and on what was known as the Capital Ranch Syndicate. I first heard about it at the time when, well, I was just a little trigger-happy and had a disposition like a deceptic sidewinder. Colonel B. G. Campbell of the old Bob B. Q. outfit called me and then Blocker and Johnny Black over for coffee. Why, we was a toast and a boot to this campfire. He told us about it. Well, it's going to be the biggest ranch in the West, and I'm to be managed. How about joining me, boys? What do you think, Blackie? I thought we were fixing to get our ropes in a few strays, set up an outfit of our own. Yes, and your maverick's left in the range. Oh, boys, the day of the maverick is near and an end. We've got big plans for this ranch, boys. Make the run over 150,000 heads. Our spread will be 250 miles long by 30-wise. Yes, bigger than some nations and a lot of states. Ten full counties. They'd have picked out a brand yet barbecue. Nope. Let's see, Tenon, Texas. Hey, X stands for Ten, don't it? You did when I went to school. Here, I got a brand for you. I'll mark it down by the fire lights. XT. Tenon for Tenon, Texas. Yeah, it's a good brand, all right. It'd be hard to change. Yeah, you bet I could change it. Oh, that looks good to me. Charlie, boys, I'd like to have you meet up there. Oh, wait a minute, Colonel. Just, Charlie. Oh, yeah, yeah. Now, this is Charlie, boys. He come west and the car goes to learn the car business. How do you do, fellas? He ain't got no use for boot-black tear punches. Well, I'm very sorry. Just for there's a boot-black puncher. Oh, don't mind him, Charlie. Len cut his I.T.s all the books off. He'd mean stand-a-foot or a greenhorn. There's no concealing it. I am a greenhorn, all right. But I promise y'all learn the cattle business or bite. Change it. You're biking off more than you can choose. Well, come on, boys. How about it? You want to join up with a new X-13? Well, as long as we've saved you to a brand, I reckon you might as well. This blue shot, I'm short over 20,000 inches. Longhorn delivers the new range. Trails rumble with freight wagons, hornin' lumber, equipment and food supplies. Every time an outfit brought in more cattle, I... The boss is under orders to buy him out, lock, stock and barrel. To hire the men, too. All of which didn't bring nothing but ill will to the X-I.T. And that couple with the rules pushes to govern us hands. It's all of us rare and three billions. Hey, fellas. We're getting a bookkeeper. So tomorrow we've got to start finding payrolls and working for it. What? I won't do it. I won't do it. Orders is orders, boys. I'm quiet now. I'm quiet. Charlie here has invented a little contraption. The syndicate wants us to put into operation. Tell him about it, Charlie. I've invented the branding shoot. They've got the trouble of roping and tying tabs. All right. All right. Now ain't that just a sort of a contraption the syndicate had come up with? Listen, you greenhorn. When you take a rope out of the hands of a cowboy, you've got nothing left. I know back off, man. Orders is orders. Yeah, that's all for me. No, listen a minute. Any of you fellas quittin' with me? Oh, I go. I aim to throw my loop on all the mavericks' craze I see. Bookkeepers. Doggy squeezers. I'll be hanged for I work for an outfit that don't know how to brand a cab. No, wait. I'm through. Good night, goodbye, and bad luck. I'll make some change of the retro and the rip-roaring fringe. That's the cactus gave teeth to the ants.  Hey, man. Oh, hi. Hi, it's Greta, are you? Hey, give us a hand here, will you? And we throw the wheel off of Mr. Ebbuck boys. Hey, I don't reckon you know I quit the XIT. Oh, okay. Oh. Well, I'll be a ring-cared ringer, a lady. All right. I think there is Ms. Katie Martin, ma'am. Can I present Mr. Lam Stubbers, one of our unwashed and unvarnished cowboys. How do you do, Mr. Stubbers? How do you, ma'am? He is a stormy coming up, and I was wondering if you'd put Ms. Katie on behind you and ride back to Lantow. Well, old Smokey ain't never been rid by no lady, and you ain't gonna like this. Give her a hand, Streaks. No.  Well, how many? How many? How many? A little bit. Yeah. I did. Hey, have the boys pick out a new wheel, ma'am. Hey, here's what I'm gonna say to you. Hey, don't fall off. Well, there's nothing to hold on to. Do you mind if I'll put my arms... I mean, take my arms around here? Well, ma'am, I'm sort of ticklish, but... Well, if you do like it, ma'am, climb down, open up the horse and drop. I'll take your place. Let's go, Smokey. Come on. Hold tight, ma'am. Don't let him get away. It's awfully nice of you to accommodate me like this. Oh, she's here. She's nothing, ma'am. Why are you leaving me outside, too? Oh, I'm tired of it.  Bookkeepers, doggies screaming. Gee, how come a pretty girl like you is coming out here to this job for a second country? Well, I work for the syndicate. We're a team? You work for the syndicate? I'm the new bookkeeper. Bookkeeper? Well, don't that beat all. Get out, sir. Get out that there, bookkeeper. Come on back. Morning, ma'am. Morning, sweet. I was coming back last night, Len. Yeah. I thought you were through for good. I thought I could change his mind, Teddy. Why are you getting all flicked up, Len? Yeah, that hair oil makes you smell like the morning after a pole cat picnic. And how come you're curling your moustache? Oh, see, come on, fellas. The colonel wants you up to the big house to meet the new bookkeeper and sign the paper roll. Oh, he always does that. I for one ain't signing no paper roll and ain't gonna meet no bookkeeper. How about you, Len? Blackie, I wouldn't miss it for the world. Oh, thank you. Oh, Len, look at that beautiful view. Yeah, never mind the scenery. What's that secret you was going to tell me? Well, the colonel is going to name new Foreman. Foreman? I don't let the boss know that I left the cat out of the bag. Yeah, so far as I'm concerned, it's still in the bag. You mean you don't want to be Foreman? No, ma'am, not me. Being Foreman of the XIT is like being measured for a shroud.  Well, never turn my back on troubled years. Well, let me tell you, it's easy to go along with everyone else condemning the XIT message, but it's going to take courage to fight for the big ram. Katie, the harness is only buzzing and the rat race is merely rambling. But one of these days, all the hate that's accumulated in this city keeps going to swarm and strike this ranch, or it'll work. But I'll go along with you. Oh, Len, spend your with us. Did you say first? I'm with you, Katie, all the way. Where's Len's brother? You looking to meet Blackie? They're down shooting. I'm looking for you. We all looking for you. Anyway, boy. Yeah? Well, guess what? They're faster than you this time. Have new rules. You're just supposed to say to no hands of XIT to carry firearms without special authority. That's right. You reckon it's how you're big enough to disarm me? Well, I reckon you could do it, if it's a minding. Well, then start disarming.  Put up your hands, John Blacker. I've got the cover. It's the greener fin, Johnny. No, no, it's not. Oh! Oh! What is that? That does for you, Blackie. Now the rest of you reach. Good work, Len. Take the gun, Charlie, so I can hit my feet. You get a lot of nerve for a tender foot, Charlie. Don't worry about me, Len. All right. Foreman? Good morning, Simon. It's dark this morning. All hands kept in line. Now the riders will be divided in the crews. We got fence to string. Fence! Fence! Yeah, that's what I said. Fence! Hey, that's your pay-in. It's going to be a long-term job. You feel like working, Mr. Black? I'm not working for any outfit that expects his hands to go on arm. If a string and fence is a job for nesters, plain dirt farmers, it's not for me. Then clear up of here, John Blacker. Well, Mr. Greenhorn, it's pretty clear to me now just who's been responsible for the rules around here. Any of you boys coming with me? Well, you'd rather be nesters working for this Greenhorn in his syndicate. I'm with you, McJohnny. Well, that's that. Some good riddance. The wire and the poles in them wagons. You rest your pile of board and move out. What's the trouble, boys? A little mutiny, Katie. Excuse me. All right, you fellas. Let's get going. Well, Katie, they got me bored. They got me bought from the crew that's the string fence. 2,000 miles of it. I'll miss you, Land. Yeah, and this makes me the biggest God-gown nester in Texas. I know you. And you're doing it for me. Katie, I've been wanting to ask you a very important question. Land, wagons are rolling. Tattle up and ride. OK, Charlie. Miss Katie, I will. Yes, Mr. Land. It's Katie. I'll think you every time we set a post. You were listening to Walter Brennan as Land's father's in Tandem, Texas on the cavalcade of America, sponsored by the DuPont Company, making her a better thing for better living through dinner. He spent months on the job digging porstoles, setting posts and stringing wires in that dreaded barbed wire. Then at Christmas time, we came in for shindig. Katie and a few other girls was on hand, but they wanted enough females to go around, so some of the boys tied hankies in the sleeves and laid off like they were ladies for the square dancing. Be sure ahead of time of it. Get in your places like horses in the crevices. There's just a ghost with you. Katie, I've been wanting to tell you how much this barge is circular like.  I see the highland. You think there's more fun in the bar in the month, isn't it? But I'm sure it's getting kind of high though, playing off as a woman. Now, start your home and clean your own. Katie, I'll miss you every minute. Oh, and I've missed you already. I've been going to ask for this. Oh, and the flip-flops. The dog's gone in the very heavy, heavy apartment car, and he nearly gets to speak his own mind. Whoever he is, where he is, anyway. Hey, cut the fuck, get that twirl, get that pretty girl around the world. After the holidays, we went out with another load of wire and posts. Much became years in that blasted French ride. One night in the dark of the moon, I heard cattle on the move and it was black and his gang had driving a herd of a choice breeding star toward the New Mexico Rhine. So I unlimbered my peacemaker and went in a blazing. The cattle stampeded and headed back to the XIT. I followed at a safe distance until the Russians give up the chase. Then I went after the herd and had the critters pretty well in hand when two horsemen went up to me on a wire. I reached for the star, don't pull anything or more and it'll see you full of daylight. I'm reaching. What outfit do you with? XIT. Who you with? Strangest. Just like I told you, Pete. The old men in toast with the Russians. Yeah, you're making a mistake here, ain't you? I'm Lynn Struthers, boss of the pension crew. Take your shoes on, Pete. Then turn these cattle back. I'll take him only to headquarters. I don't know what to do, Lynn. The colonel critters manager and Charlie's in Chicago and Mr. Boyce, the new manager, is suspicious of everyone. Well, I saved that herd for the XIT. The Rangers say our own men are working with the Russians. So Mr. Boyce is firing everyone and bringing in outsiders. Yeah, so that brings us all these Russians, huh? Oh. Are you going on working for a setup like this? Well, Lynn, Charlie is asking to marry him. Marry him? Well... What? Well, I've been out stringing since like a dog done nested. Charlie Greenhorn has been a feather in his nest. No, Lynn, I didn't want to talk at all. All right, brothers. Mr. Boyce will turn you loose. So draw your paint clear off the plate. Clear off the XIT? Me? Yeah, you. Oh, Lynn. All right. I'll go. I hope you don't mind if I take more of the horse smoking with me. He still belongs to me. The road's from ranch to ranch with my heart and my boots. I found out that Johnny Blacks out there didn't want the only one fighting the XIT. I've been wrongfully accused, but I refuse to let the lie become a fact. I still drew the line on Russian, but I needed a grub steak so I finally took a job with Blackie's outfit. He's a cook. Second month, I was with him.  I was waiting for us when we came through the draw. Somebody must have tipped off those ranges. I got a good idea. Who? What about little Joe? Did he make it? Well, they got him. Never knew what hit him. You mean the kid is dead? I heard him the first time.  He was too young to die. Yeah, too young to die.  You tipped off those ranges. I did not. They were waiting for us tonight and you're the only man in this outfit that stands for the big ranch. Well, don't blame me if little Joe got himself killed. He was a following you, not me. I've waited a long time for this. Good work, Blackie. Let me finish him off. Yeah, he ain't worth the lead of a single bullet. Yeah, I rope his feet together. Tie the other end of it to a saddle horn.  He ain't as thin as little never can be Johnny Black a rustling.  There's so much prejudice. But really, Kitty, I feel better qualified to handle it than any lawyer we might engage. You think Blackin is proud and done away with them? He appears that way. There's been no trace of him. Poor guy. Oh, well, I'll never forgive myself. It's called to genocide. Counsel for the Cavalos Syndicate. Will you please wind up your case? The men of the jury would like to get back to the ranches before the Cavs are all cowed. I'm going to do my best, Katie, here. Thank you. Your honor, gentlemen of the jury, I might call the defendant John Black, back to the witness panel. Gentlemen, only the XIT ranch has brought polled Angus cattle to this territory. On the night of August the 28th, I often formerly the Texas Rangers caught Mr. Black and his men driving a herd of polled Angus cattle bearing his brand. Black, what did you get those cattle? I bought them. Where did you buy them? From a man. When did you put your brand on them? Well, now I don't rightfully remember. You see, on our ranch, we don't wear our men out keeping a lot of records. Gentlemen of the jury, I charge that the defendant here has been changing the XIT into his own brand. You can stand there and make the charge all day.  Is anybody in the house that thinks you can change the XIT brand into mine? Yeah, I can do it. Glenn's brother. I thought... Glenn? Oh, Glenn. Your honor, I should like to ask for a recess. You've had too many recesses now, sonny. Go on with the case. You may step down from the witness stand, Mr. Black. Gentlemen of the jury, for new evidence, I should like to introduce a former employee of Mr. Black's ranch. Take the witness stand, Mr. Struthers. Yes, sir, that was good, huh, Blackie? Well, there's one thing you didn't figure on that drunken moment of your own. Good cattle horse like my smokey won't run for where there's a kitchen, you know. Glenn, the witness, do you want to tell the whole truth enough for the truth to help the God? I do. Mr. Struthers, here's the next I.C. brand mark and a piece of chalk. Will you demonstrate? Yeah. And here's the way Blackie and his boys done it. You notice that the T slants just a little. Now just cross the I and extend the inside lines of the X like this, you know. And continue to stem with the T until the lines meet and form the point of the star. The rest of the T is easy. I would say that's my ingenious. Gentlemen, we rest our case. Oh, man, it's so good to have you back. We'll celebrate, Glenn, as soon as the jury comes in with a verdict. We want you for best man at our wedding, Glenn. Wedding? Oh, you mean... Oh, man, I don't know what to say. Well, Katie, I reckon you know your mind. Oh, I wish you and Charlie a lifetime of happiness and a ten-star with sun. All of them Texans is a capital brand. The jury is ready with his verdict. Keelan, it's an open and shut case. Thanks to you. Order. Order. You say the jury has arrived at the verdict. Yes, fairy ball. John Black is not guilty. And we'd like to try the capital syndicate for persecuting an honestile man. After 27 years of operation, the greatest of all cattle empire sold out. A man who fought the syndicate finally whipped it. And then he woke up one day to find that the very things they'd condemned the HIT for had enveloped them in all sides. Ranches that pay the day use the sound methods of the old HITs. The ranch that changed the west. But I reckon you all want to know about the witness Charlie and Katie. Well, you know how women had their ride changed the mind and, hey, wait just a minute. Well, Katie, come on out here and meet the folks. Howdy. Yes, sir. This is Mrs. Lynn Struthers, folks. Just more pardon them planning to land this old group than them rascals ever used to run for the life out of the XITs. Yes, right, my. Yes, sir. The star, Walter Brennan will return to our cavalcade microphone in a moment. Now, here is Gain Whitman. Cattle ranching today is very different from what it used to be in the day of the open ranges. Romance still rides through the herds, but now science rides along. Dark men know much more than they used to about feed for one thing. Many of the discoveries which have improved the diet of human beings like vitamins are used to improve the diet of range cattle. It is known today that cattle have diseases just as we do. And veterinary science knows more about the diseases and more about how to cure them. An animal in need of medical treatment or surgery gets veterinary care that compares very well with the care you or I receive in a hospital. The number of cattle on the range and their health affect your table and your pocketbook. For those are some of the factors which help to determine how much meat is available and what price you must pay for it. Chemistry is making a number of contributions to the welfare of America's herds of beef cattle. The depart company manufactures a compound with a long chemical name phenothiazine which is the best known remedy against intestinal worms that cause cattle to lose weight and sometimes die. A most effective remedy against external screw worms is smear number 62. It's developed by the Department of Agriculture. In this chemical disanalamine is the active ingredient. Another depart chemical which contributes to the supply of meat is disodium phosphate. The soil in some parts of the country is lacking in phosphorus and cattle raised in those areas lose weight and energy gets creepy as cattle men say. Cows often become barren so no calves are born.  There are more calves and the calves are heavier. Still another compound manufactured by Dupont B.B.T. shows promise of controlling life horn fly ticks and other parasites that make life miserable for the cattle. Not only is it practical and efficient to safeguard the health of cattle but it's more humane reflecting greater thoughtfulness and kindness to animal friends that must be helped. Since they are unable to help themselves. Pneumothiazine disodium phosphate B.B.T. Dysanolamine in special formulations for the use of cattle men are Dupont's better things for a better living through chemistry. Now here is Walter Brelin. Well folks next week Caravacade is going to bring you Joseph Codden and Claire Trevor and the story of Donald McCay the American who built the first I'll be listening with you next Monday night when Joseph Codden and Claire Trevor are heard in build me straight on the Dupont Caravacade of America to pause at the end of the year which has brought victory on the battle front and for each to resolve to undertake with renewed determination his own path there is much to be done to bring back peace and the bountiful plenty to be exhausted world each in his own way may have a part in the opportunities the new year brings for all of us here's a wish that it may be a happy year of achievements for every one of you Music for tonight's Dupont Caravacade was composed and conducted by Robert Ambruster Walter Brelin will soon be seen in the 20th century Fox technical production Centennial Summer Our Caravacade play was written by Walter Hank Richards and was based on a Reader's Digest article by Lewis Nordite This is Tom Collins inviting you to listen next week The Tales of Cotton with Claire Sever in Build Me Straight on the Cavalcade of America brought to you by the Dupont Company of Wilmington, Delaware This is a national broadcasting company


he vote is Elizabeth Drey. Good evening, Elizabeth Drey, Jason Street, tell me a member in precinct 10. I'll keep it brief because Amy said a lot of the things I was gonna say. I support this warn article goal. I think that there may be some initial grumbling and griping, but I also had the analogy to when we got rid of plastic bags that that was, you know, it was hard, a hard lift at first, but now we all bring our, it's like our reusable bags to the grocery store and we don't think twice about it. So I think that we can make this shift also and that we need to make this shift. So that's it. I support it and I hope that you will too this evening. Thank you. Thank you. The next is Sarah McKinnon. Good evening. Good evening. Thank you for letting me speak. My name is Sarah McKinnon. I'm a 10 meeting member from precinct 20 and I live on Kill Scythe Road. Everyone who's spoken before me has spoken so eloquently and so with so much information, I was particularly surprised and struck by the, what I think I heard was that one of the businesses in town has a thousand bottles of water a month, which means that this kind of legislation would mean 12,000 bottles less are out in Arlington from one place. It just seemed like so much. And so it seems like such a small step, but I think that each small step we take gets us closer to what we want long-term as a community. I know my children in particular, I have a 12 year old and a nine year old, are very strong proponents of us never buying single use bottled water. I think I'm probably not the only parent who hears this from our children. And I think that they would want this too. So in part, I'm speaking on my behalf, but I'm also speaking on their behalf as to people who can't vote, but if they could, would definitely urge you to please support this one. Thank you. Thank you. And there's one last hand raised. And it's prior, I'm sorry, if I said your name wrong. Okay, yeah. Why don't we promote, yeah. Good evening. This is Priya Sankalya. I am town meeting member from precinct 13 and also the chair of Zero Waste Arlington. I'm just here again to support Jennifer and Jim and Jennifer's excellent presentation and hope this like what will support us on this. Zero Waste Arlington's mission is to educate the residents of Arlington in all these issues. And we really try to do a lot of outreach and understand that it's going to have to be an attitude change that's going to be required of a lot of us. And every little step we take towards that will help in our goals. So thank you very much for allowing us to bring this article to a town meeting and hope you'll support it. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. There's one more. Okay. Larry Slotnik. Good evening, Mr. Slotnik. Thank you. Good evening, Larry Slotnik. I'm also co-chair of Zero Waste Arlington. I live in precinct seven as a town meeting member. I just wanted to add some detail because the panelist prior to Priya sort of referenced the numbers we provided for Dagestinos which I verified myself today after a prior person had visited them and they are indeed correct. I don't think what we've mentioned today or tonight is that the seven large retailers that sell mostly cases of bottled water and these would be the two CVSs as Walgreens plus Whole Foods Trader Joe's and Stop and Shop sell an estimated combined about 500,000 bottles a year 12 ounce uncarbonated water. So they can bear the loss of that revenue possibly better than some small retailers have can particularly maybe the small convenience stores. But yes, elimination of those bottles from our community with the very small recycling rate I had estimated closer to only 15% than the 20 that Jennifer mentioned. This does mean that more than 400,000 probably close to 450,000 of these bottles are not going into the blue bins around Arlington. They're mostly consumed out of the home. As we know, in places where recycling just doesn't exist and there's not the incentive of the 5 cent deposit that there is on carbonated beverages. So it really wouldn't make a big difference in our community and I urge your support. Thank you. That's it. Okay. Mr. Hurd. Yep. Thank you all for the presentation. And I think this is a certain article that we had anticipated coming forward for the past few years. And I look forward to the debate on it. Again, like one of the previous articles that we talked about, I think this is an article that is definitely going to be debated by and voted on by town meeting regardless of how we vote on this article tonight. So I will move favorable action to pass this on to town meeting and let that learned body debate this and come to a conclusion as to whether or not this is right for the town. I mean, I do have a few concerns in mainly, so in looking at the towns that have adopted this doesn't look like any of the towns that border Arlington have adopted this. So there is some one of a concern for the major retailers that people will go elsewhere. But I think in reality, practical reality, people buy the groceries wherever is convenient and don't tend to drive too far for groceries. And I think the major retailers can absorb any losses that are incurred as a result of imposing this on the major retailers. I do have some reservations about small sub shops, small retailers and the impact that this can have. And particularly the idea with small restaurants and I don't know how this could be flushed out in the language, but I would like to see an exemption for sort of fast food, takeout type restaurants where if you're going to go and have a sub you're going to have a drink with it. And just from a practical health perspective, the variety that they can offer isn't the variety that a stop and shop can offer as to an alternative. And if you don't have a bottle of water, you have a Coke or something that some sugary beverage that just doesn't have the same health benefits as water. No, I understand that not everybody is, most people don't drink Coke and someone might tend to bring their water or bring their food elsewhere where they have a water bottle with them. But it is a concern and the impact that this might have on those small businesses. And again, I'm moving favorable action and I'm going to vote for my motion for favorable action. But there are concerns that I have and if I am reelected to town meeting, I'll bring my concerns at that point. But I think that the tenor of the article is good. I think this is the direction that the town is moving in and the town around it has always been at the forefront of leading against climate change and working towards a much cleaner lifestyle, which I'm all for. It's just whether or not we can get the language tailored so it works practically and ideally for the town of Arlington. Thank you, Mr. Heard. I do have Mr. Helmuth. Yeah, I heavily second that. And I think that this probably bears some additional research, but I follow the Concord experience somewhat over the last few years. They first did their ban in 2013 and recently read a WGBH news story from 2018, five years later evaluating the ban and the progress. And I think the general picture was that there was a lot of adaptation and that stores were actually still selling single servings of water, but not in PET plastic bottles. The milk bottle and the milk containers. So, you know, I think for myself I might, I think that Tommy and he absolutely will need to have a healthy debate on this as we have other things. I don't know if we're going to need some of the exceptions that had been mentioned, but I think it's, we need to have that discussion. You know, I think the retailers may have some options for still making water sales that conform with this bylaw. So I think that would be a good fruitful line of inquiry as we put our heads together, but I certainly support it. All right, any other comments? I have a couple of comments and I will support this as well. One, I spoke with Mr. Baylon. One of my concerns or maybe just comment is it seems to me that this should be done at the state level and then I'll support it. But, and I know there's a bill pending in the House, at House 869 that Representative Rogers and Representative Garberly are cosponsors, which would outlaw single-use plastic water sales a year after passage. But I don't know, it doesn't seem like that bill is going very far. And it also deals with plastic bags, which we've already addressed here as a community, but to the changing the industry and changing the way water is sold, it seems like it would really affect change more if it was done on the state level. And I would hope if we do pass this, if we could put something in there that we encourage our state delegation to support this on a statewide level. Because I just feel we're blip, as Mr. Hurd said, there's no other community really around us. Conker's probably the closest community that has done this. Brookline I think has some sort of ban as well. And it really should be done in the state level. And I hope that takes place because that's a concern I have. I will go along with this, but I do have a concern for the businesses here as opposed to, you know, if you're up the heights and there's businesses in Lexington, you'll just go over the line or somewhere. And if it's done on a statewide basis, I think there'll be more of a change. Just a quick question. I don't think this will affect it much, but how do you, I know that there is an enhanced bottle bill that's pending as well that would include water sales, but I think it still doesn't address the issues that you talked about with just plastic bottles not being recycled. Is that accurate? Mr. Chair, if I can respond to that. Sure. And also I wanted to just quickly respond to one of Mr. Hurd's comments. First of all, there is an expanded bottle bill that's been proposed. It's now currently in the Senate Ways and Means. CWA is very supportive of that being passed. It would certainly have a beneficial effect on increasing recycling rates, which would be a good thing of course. We don't necessarily think that it would drastically reduce the amount of single use bottles that are used and produced. And so to that extent, we still feel like this warrant article is important. I don't think the other bill, as far as I know, has much chance of passage. I think the expanded bottle bill may have a better chance. We're still waiting for a statewide plastic bag ban to go into effect, even though so many communities in the state already have one. The state still hasn't done that. So we don't really want to wait for that for either of those bills to pass, but of course we would support that. And just quickly to one of Mr. Hurd's comments, certainly we were encouraged restaurants, we're gonna make quite a bit of outreach effort to restaurants to offer tap water to their customers. That's really what we're after here is a culture shift to get people to drink tap water, which is just a great, healthy resource in Arlington. So people don't have to drink a sugary drink when they go to a restaurant, if there's no bottled water. They'll always be tap water. And we're gonna highly encourage and even promote restaurants that offer that. And aside from that, there will always be other options for people that are not sweetened beverages. As Jennifer mentioned, this does not include vitamin drinks, other unsweetened beverages, seltzers, carbonated water, things like that. So we don't think there's much evidence that this is gonna encourage people to switch over to more unhealthy drinks. And again, we really wanna encourage a culture shift towards more drinking of tap water and avoiding the very wasteful bottled water. Thank you. Thank you. Any other, Mr. Diggins? Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. So I was pleased to hear from Mr. Helmets that there are other containers in which you can sing, can sell single serves of water. Because I was also kind of a little bit concerned about the possibility of a perverse unintentional effect, to shift the pushing people towards being less or unhealthy drinks being in. So I was gonna ask if there were any studies about what had happened when these bans had gone into place elsewhere. I'm just saying, I'm gonna ask a few questions, but I'll just say from the outset, me and I support this, I support this strongly. And then I'll say at the very end quickly why. A question about, do we have sense of the profit margin of these single use sales? If you know what they're selling for, they're selling for, sorry, go ahead. Well, just the profit margin, because I think a lot of times we're thinking, you know, they're gonna lose me all the, like the full sale price of it. But it's only the profit margin that we're concerned about because if they're not selling it, they're just not selling it, but then, but it's the margin, the profit that they're losing or not gaining. So do we have a sense of profit margin on these? I don't know, Barry or Jim, do you wanna speak to that? I don't think we have the data on the actual profit margins. I think we do know for single individual water bottles, there's obviously a fairly significant profit margin for the bulk packaging, the profit margin is certainly much smaller. And I don't think we have the specific numbers. All right, just get a sense of what the hit might be to any given business that's selling them. Okay, great, thanks. And so what was the genesis of this article now? Either of you.  Yeah, yeah, what, what, yeah, what, what caused? Well, it's a discussion that, you know, the committee had been having and a town meeting member, Lynette Culverhouse, actually came to us and said, she was very interested in this and that kind of gave us the incentive to start discussing it. And we decided that it was, you know, we wanted to move it forward. This committee was involved in the past in the effort for the polystyrene ban and the simple use plastic bag ban. So, you know, this is another step towards reducing unnecessary plastic waste and addressing the plastic pollution and climate crisis. Great, well, I was wondering if that might be the case because Ms. Culverhouse reached out to me and I had suggested that she check out you all because I felt that you all were doing good work, me then, and that me, I felt that this was the home meeting for that kind of article. So I'm really happy to see that you worked with her, you took her idea and then have brought it, you know, to us, I mean, I'm in a form of what I think is a really good article and I'm voting for it because I was happy to hear one of you say that me, or maybe another speaker say that, I mean, their kids mean do not want, mean to use, mean liquids in plastics, mean, and I think the next generation gets it, and so we need to make it easier for them to continue doing what it is that they want to do. And we just have to shift the mindset, mean towards uses, practices that are just beneficial to the planet in the long term, mean, well, there are lots of things that we do that help us in the short term, but do damage in the long term and it's gonna cost us to make the shift, but in the short term, in the long term, it's gonna pay off, mean, so every chance I get, I hope that I will make these kinds of decisions and yes, I may have to have a conversation with Mr. Tacostino about this, but that's okay, you know, because I think in the long run, it really is in the right thing for us to do, so thank you for bringing this forward and I look forward to voting positive action on it here and in time meeting. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Diggins. Any other comments from the board members? Okay, seeing none on a motion for favorable action by Mr. Herd, seconded by Mr. Helmuth, Attorney Hine. Mr. Herd? Yes. Mr. Diggins? Yes. Mr. Helmuth? Yes. Mrs. Mahan? Yes. Mr. Dacourse? Yes. It's an anonymous vote. Sorry. Thank you both. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Next is Article 13, By-Law Amendment to prohibit the use of facial surveillance, face surveillance. Mr. Fisher? Hello, everyone. Hi, my name is Ezra Fisher and I'm a town meeting member from Precinct Four. Thank you for inviting me to speak tonight as a proponent of Article 13 of By-Law Amendment to prohibit the use of face surveillance. My hope is that this issue is fairly non-controversial. This by-law would ban all use of facial recognition technology by the town of Arlington, except that which is already provided for by state law. Boston, Somerville, Cambridge, and Brookline, as well as several municipalities in Western Mass have all passed similar by-laws or ordinances. Our own state representative, Dave Rogers, has been working on this topic at the state level and there are federal efforts in the House and Senate led by Iona Presley, Elizabeth Warren, and Ed Markey. I'd actually like to start by clarifying what this article is not about. So it will not ban the use of any existing security camera in the town of Arlington or restrict, sorry, that the town of Arlington operates or restrict buying or deploying new ones. In fact, since Arlington has never used facial recognition software, it will not change anything about the way we currently use video or still images. It also does not prevent the town from attempting to identify people based on an image of their face by current methods. This article would not prevent a private entity from using whatever software they wanted on a security camera on their own property. This article will not even prevent law enforcement from using facial recognition in certain limited scenarios. These parameters are established in a state law passed last year called an act relative to justice, equity, and accountability in law enforcement in the Commonwealth, referred to as the GIL Act. What the GIL Act says is that law enforcement can, with a court order or in the case of an emergency, submit a request with an unidentified image to the state police who are then able to take that image to the RMV and use their facial recognition capabilities to attempt to identify the person. As I know, you know, nothing we pass at the town level could supersede a state law, even if we tried. But in this case, the language of the proposed article is careful to preserve the state carve out so that we don't have any conflict. So what does this article achieve? First and foremost, it tries to fill two gaps that we see in the state law. The GIL Act, focused as it is on law enforcement, is entirely silent on the topic of any non-law enforcement use of facial recognition. Under state law, it would be entirely possible for another part of town government, say the fire department or the schools or even the select board, to use facial recognition software on the cameras that they operate. In order to understand the second gap in the state law, please bear with me as I describe two terms. The terms are defined in the suggested language for the article, as well as in state law, but I'll paraphrase here. So facial recognition or face surveillance is any kind of automated software that attempts to identify people based on their faces. A facial recognition search is a specific use of facial recognition software in which you take an image of an unidentified person and run it through a piece of software to get an identity based on facial recognition. The GIL Act defines both of these terms, facial recognition and facial recognition search, but then only legislate the use of facial recognition search. So this means that while the limited application of taking that unidentified image and using software to identify it is regulated, there's absolutely nothing to prevent any part of government from doing facial recognition in their day-to-day operation. Arlington is currently free to install facial recognition software on any or all of its 400 plus surveillance cameras. This software could be fed an image of a known person and asked to compile a record of that person's movements or passively build profiles of all of us as we move throughout our lives. In other words, while the state law defines how law enforcement may use responsive facial recognition, it fails to set up any guardrails on government's use of proactive or passive facial recognition. But these gaps I think are worth closing for any number of reasons. Here are just a few examples. Current facial recognition technology is inaccurate. Actually, it's worse than just inaccurate because in addition to not being extremely good at recognizing any faces, it has been proven to be worse at identifying people of color and women and even worse at identifying women of color. There have already been multiple cases of false arrest based on the use of facial recognition leading to lawsuits against municipalities. Even if the technology were perfect, it would still be against our values. We don't have a surveillance state in this country. We don't believe government officials can walk up to us on a street corner and demand to CID. They can ask and most of us are happy to comply, but they can't compel us to. The rights to free speech and free assembly are among our most prized and would absolutely be negatively affected if the government were able to automatically identify everyone choosing to exercise those rights. And most of all, the people disproportionately harmed when government surveillance power expands are the segments of our population uniquely vulnerable to any kind of poorly wielded government power. LGBT plus homeless people, people with mental illnesses, people of color, and of course, the many people who embody more than one of those categories. As town council points out in his memo on this article, town bylaws are commonly used to define what people in Arlington can and can't do, not what the town government can and can't do. While this may be true, I don't think it needs to deter us. The attorney general's office has already approved a very similar bylaw in Brookline. More importantly, I think it should not deter us. While our current town manager and chief of police have said that they never have and never intend to use facial recognition, we can't always count on having like-minded leaders. As elected representatives, it's our responsibility to codify our expectations for how our town should be run, particularly on issues as important as the limits of government power. It's important to do this now while the technology is not in use because it's much easier to preemptively establish a limit than it is to take away something already in practice. Thank you for your time and attention on this issue. I'm looking forward to your questions. But before we get there, I do wanna introduce Cade Prokford, director of the ACLU of Massachusetts Technology for Liberty program, who has been instrumental in efforts to ban face surveillance at the state and local level, including Brookline. I'm really grateful to Cade for being willing to attend our town meetings tonight and help me answer your questions. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Fish. Good evening, Cade. Good evening, how are you? Good, how are you? Good, thanks. I know it's very late, so I'm not gonna reiterate anything that Ezra said. I'm just happy to answer questions if anybody has them. Thanks. Thank you. All right, so I'll turn to board members first and then open up to the public. Before I do that, I do wanna say we had received memorandum from Attorney Hyman, Attorney Cunningham, about preemption issues with state law. And this in particular, a couple of other warrant articles before us raises the question, but as we go forward tonight, I'm in complete agreement that facial recognition shouldn't be used. It's not reliable. But at the same time with the Geolact specifically, the creation of the study commission, which has not issued any recommended findings yet, they're supposed to by December 31st and that date has passed. But there are a number of things that they're going to study. And within the Geolact law enforcement agencies, the definition includes municipal police forces as well in addition to the state and county. And so I wanna raise the issue of preemption as a potential bar to anything we're doing here. And I know Mr. Fitcher, you mentioned that Brookline passed a by-law and this copies that by-law. And that by-law was actually passed before the Geolact and it was in July of 2020 that the Attorney General said it's valid, but also said in the letter there are several bills pending in the state legislature pertaining to the use of face surveillance systems. The town needs to look at what the state does to see if the by-law is in compliance. So I just wonder if, I think there's some issues here whether the legislature through the passage of the Geolact has preempted the field here and whether it doesn't behoove us where we're not using facial recognition to see what comes out of that commission because there are specific areas regarding privacy of individuals that they are supposed to get back and report out on. And I usually don't go first as chair, but I wanted to raise this as it almost seems to me that you may be where there's, in the short term, there's no irreparable harm at the local level because we're not doing anything. Do we wait and see what comes out of this commission before we enact a by-law and run the risk of having it be declared inconsistent with state law? I don't know if either one of you have thoughts on that. I know, Kate, you had read an article in the New York Times where you were referenced as a person who had a lot to do with the success of the Geolact at the local level. And Massachusetts was pointed out as one of the few states that seemed to pass an act, but also to continue to study things. And so I don't know if you have any comments on what I just said on that and whether, not that personally I'm opposed to what you're trying to do here, but I think it feels to me that maybe we need to wait for the state a little bit of time here. Sure, Chair, yeah, I can address that. I appreciate the question, it's a good question. I actually serve on the commission, the special legislative commission to study governmental use of facial recognition. And I can tell you that the report is gonna come out very soon. So you'll be able to read it very, very soon. The report, though, won't change the law, obviously. The report will go to the legislature and will make recommendations about what the legislature ought to do, if anything, to change the existing law on this topic. Whether the legislature takes the commission up on those recommendations is a separate matter, obviously. We at the ACLU hope that they will and that they'll strengthen the law. We have some concerns that are similar to Ezra's about the existing statute. We have other concerns as well. But on the question of preemption, my understanding is that the warrant article that's currently before the town of Arlington explicitly addresses that preemption issue by stating clearly that the police department, which is the only entity that would be touched, that is touched by that state regulation, can use facial recognition in compliance with state law. So we don't see there being a preemption issue here. We've looked at it pretty closely. There are also, as you know, and as Ezra said, eight other municipalities throughout the Commonwealth that have these municipal prohibitions on the books. And we believe, after doing a legal review, that the portions of those municipal laws that deal with non-police entities remain intact. And that the only area where state law preempts those municipal prohibitions has to do with section 26 of the police reform bill, which only regulates a very narrow area of law enforcement use of facial recognition technology. So, you know, it's our view that the town could go forward. But, you know, certainly if you think it's prudent to wait, that's obviously your call in that line. Thanks. Okay, thank you. And Mr. Hurt. Thank you. The presentation and the information, this is certainly a complicated issue. And I think you've brought up a lot of very specific and very good instances where this law can be beneficial and the passage of a bylaw such as this would help town residents or visitors to the town or anyone in the town of Arlington. I am, in addition to the preemption issues that the chair referenced, I am concerned a little bit about unintended consequences as this is just an area that I've done a little bit of research in anticipation of this warrant article, but I'm certainly not there as to call myself an expert or I'm not able to say I know all the instances where facial recognition is used. And I'm concerned that as we a board of non-experts on facial recognition support a bylaw banning the use of such facial recognition technology that we are, there are unintended consequences where we're banning useful uses. The technology exists and to some extent, I'm sure there's instances where it's beneficial. And I just, this feels like one of the issues that I really would love to defer to the experts at the state level who are looking at this and determining, and I know it's a very specific area of the law that the commission's dealing with, but I think this needs a little bit more of a global discussion of persons who have a little more information than this board has at this time. And I'm just speaking for myself and maybe my four colleagues know a lot more about facial recognition than I do, but I do have a concern with this that we're, if we pass this article, there are some forms of facial recognition that are useful that can no longer be used. Thank you, Mr. Heller. Any other comments from board members? Mr. Heller? I think I'm really on board with the intent of this. And I'd like for Arlington to get there. I think to Mr. Heard's point, I think we could do this within the scope of favorable action perhaps, but and I'm not sure what form that would take or what form town meeting would want to do. Town meeting may decide they want to study this, for instance, instead of proceed with the bylaw. I think as part of that process, I too would want to understand with clear vision, what we would be potentially excluding depending on the wording and depending on the implementation. I don't think, you know, I think that it's our role as policymakers and town meetings role as a legislative body, you know, to know what the town's policy is, but I think that I would want to rely on town staff, personnel, to help us understand the implications, you know, so that we don't have unintended consequences. I don't know how quickly that can be done. And you know, and I agree that I think preemptively addressing this before government uses it is a good approach if we have really concerns about technology. I have no concerns about our current town administrations misuse use of this, which would constitute misuse because it's bad tech, but I think there can be a clear rationale if we know clearly what we're doing to put to codify a preemption, so that future iterations of the government are not tempted to do the wrong thing. So I'm not sure where that leaves us. I think I do want to move favorable action if for no other reason that I think that I want, if depending on my colleagues support me, to express support for this in principle with the objective of getting there. And you know, it may come down to town meetings to decide whether this is a study or whether this is where they were ready for a bylaw now. I'm honestly not sure. So I remain open to the rest of my colleagues as well. Thoughts on that. Okay, Mr. Diggins. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I had some really good conversation with Mr. Ron Fisher about this article. I mean, this is what makes, I think, this gig a lot of very enjoyable to me because I get to learn a lot, think about a lot of things. And so one of the parts of the discussion was that, well, right now, me, the non-organic machines aren't very good at the facial recognition, but that may not be the case for very long, you know? And so at some point they may be better than us at doing recognition. And then me, is it that we want them to do it or they do it when we tell them to, and only when we tell them to, because ultimately the issue is, what do you do with the information? How do you use it? Because if humans had the ability to just remember everything, then we would almost always be under surveillance by our fellow human beings. And so then what do we allow them to do with that information? I think we have to really come to terms with that eventually, and so, because essentially we just want to have privacy. So anyone can know whatever it is that they know about you, but they can't really use it against you. I think it's really the law that we want to eventually get at. And so I see this as, I don't know if it's really a stepping stone towards that or even, or maybe like a sidestep, but I just put that out there as I think what we ultimately want to aim for. The issue that I have really comes down to the town manager act and what the town council said about maybe the collision with that. And I understand that right now we have a good town manager, and chances are we'll have another good one, and we won't have to worry about the deployment of technology appropriately. But it seems, with the deals that the town manager answers to the select board, I know that we generally don't micromanage the town manager, but I think it would be acceptable for us to say, be as a policy, this isn't something the town doesn't do, and we expect our town manager not to allow the police force to do that. Am I right about that, maybe the Mr. Chair or Mr. Town Manager or Mr. Town Council? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Diggins. I do think that this is something that's important for the board to consider, not just in this specific matter, but with respect to a lot of matters. I'm not the expert that a lot of folks who are discussing these matters about facial recognition technology and some of the important issues in technology and the law. But with respect to the town's form of government, the town's elected through its town meeting to have a town manager form of government invests substantial discretion in the day-to-day management and operations, including setting forth the policies of the town. Part of the question here is not about facial recognition technology. It's, if you pass a bylaw of this nature, is there any realistic limit to what you put in the bylaws with respect to anything that the town does? Will the bylaws be a forum for very specific decisions about how each department operates? I do think that the board generally supervises the manager and that the manager is responsive to the board. The board ultimately has the ability to terminate the manager if they're not satisfied with the manager's performance. Not to be too flip about it, but as the manager has noted to me several times, the manager knows how to count votes on the board. So with respect to setting policy, I think it's important to recognize that our act vests most of the town's policy and day-to-day administration supervision of departments in the manager and this board's job is to supervise the manager. So it's foolhardy for a manager to not recognize a policy that the board is urging that manager to take. But I have a lot of respect for what we're talking about and the expert that's here with us tonight Mr. Fisher, who has done a tremendous amount of homework on this, I've really enjoyed our conversations, by the way, Isra. I do think that the fundamental question here is how do we account for this decision by the town government in years past to have a strong town manager? Is that what we want to have? Is it not? So I'm sorry that I don't have a super clean answer other than to say that the manager supervises, I mean that the manager supervises departments and the board supervises the manager. It's not as bright line as it always could be, but that's, I think, the best articulation. Yeah, that was a good example. And the board being the residents, the voters, determined the members of the select board being, and so ultimately the power is in being the hands of the residents. So for me, what, if we were to put something in the bylaws, what that would get is easy visibility as to what the town's policy is regarding facial recognition, you know, and now it would just be a matter of us being not colliding with the powers given to the town manager, by the town manager act, so if there's a way to, it's almost as if I'm asking for a resolution, trust me, I'm not doing that, you know. So the alternative would be, how could we make the policy me that the board has towards this and anything else easily visible to the public and knowable easily by the town manager? Me so that it'd be, okay, well, here's what we want. Here's our policy, everyone, this is it. Me, you can help us keep the town manager accountable as easily as we can. Me by saying, well, I'm watching what he or she does, you know, and if they don't, I'm gonna use they, because it's just easier. Me, they don't do what the policy says, we'll report, me and you as the board, he should correct what the town manager does, because if you don't, we'll see you in some April, you know, so it seems to me that we can get it, me and that way if we had some way of making the policy more visible, you know, so I'm not sure where I'm at with this, you know, and I'm gonna stop talking and listen to folks, me and then we'll do another round and it'll be after 11 o'clock, that'll decide something. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Diggins. Mr. Chair, can I jump in and answer a few or provide some comment there? Why don't we do this answer? Why don't we, we still haven't heard from the public yet on this and what I think we, and I don't really want to do it, but I said we would stop at 10.45. I'd like to hear from the public, but I also, and I'm surprised to hear myself say this, but Mr. Diggins, not that I'm looking for a resolution, but I think there's a way to make a statement and wait and see what comes out of the commission and sort of get a point across, but also, you know, hear from this legislative commission and hear from the legislature in the next year and maybe accomplish both without running potentially a file of a review by the attorney general, but before we do that, why don't we see if there's any members of the public who want to speak and what I think we may do, we're running late. I want to hear from the public and then I think that's going to be it for tonight. I think we have a lot to think about too. We may not be ready for the specific vote and I appreciate both of you reaching out to us as individuals and maybe there can be some more discussion between now and the next meeting as well. Okay. The first number is Jeffrey Pyle. Okay. And while we're waiting for Mr. Pyle, if unfortunately the other articles tonight will not be heard, so that's going to go to next week. So I apologize for that, but that's just the way it is with public hearings. I don't mean to sound plump. It's been a long night and it's, you know, we're just not going to get to everything. Okay, Mr. Pyle. Hi, I'm Jeffrey Pyle. I live on Gloucester Street in precinct eight. I'm also a First Amendment free speech lawyer and I joined the meeting today to express my support for this article. I believe as everybody agrees, seems to agree that this is an opportunity for our town to express the value that we don't want Arlington to become Jeremy Bentham's panopticon where the government can track our every move at all times. But I want to pick up specifically on Mr. Diggins point about transparency. It seems to me that it is, it ought to be well within the purview of our legislative body town leading to enact a general protection of civil liberties for this town and a general policy so that everybody knows that surveillance is not permissible for these non-law enforcement purposes, which, you know, this Warren article couldn't be clearer that this is referring to non-law enforcement purposes only. If the town desires to use it for some other non-law enforcement purpose, then I think it ought to be incumbent upon a future town manager to come before town meeting and request specific permission for that. And what that does is that it provides transparency and oversight for the public to know what the town's policy is and puts the burden where it ought to be on the party that could be violating civil liberties or violating people's reasonable expectations of the use of this policy, rather than putting the burden on the public to constantly wonder and suspect and check in on whether future government is using this technology for something that the Democratic elected officials in town meeting wouldn't approve of. And then as a First Amendment lawyer, I'd also just like to say many folks may not think twice about joining a political protest or standing in Arlington Center and holding a sign for whatever cause or political issue or what have you. But there are many populations within the town of Arlington that wouldn't feel so comfortable if they suspected that the town of Arlington was creating some kind of a database based on facial recognition technology that sent their names off to Washington to be put in a black and white folder like our Lou Guthrie's Alice's Restaurant. That can really affect undocumented populations and populations that are more vulnerable than people who look like me. So as you've heard, our other neighbors of ours have bylaws like this. I say if it's good enough for them, it ought to be good enough for us. And I would encourage you at the next meeting to vote favorable action on this article. And I want to thank the proponent of this article for an eloquent presentation. And thanks to Kate Crawford as well, who's a national expert on this issue. And we're very lucky to have her here to advise us. Thank you. The next speaker will be Anna Hengen. Hi, Anna Hengen, town meeting member for precinct six, Marianne Rowe. I also want to speak in support of this article. We as a town really don't need to be compiling profiles of where everyone is. You guys don't need to know where I go get like cookies every week. But on a more serious note, we really should see this as the extremely important civil liberties topic that it is. And it's important to put a really public really high burden of proof to have to implement any sort of facial recognition and tracking thing on the town. We really should have something that needs a vote that needs a presentation at town meeting in front of the public to be implemented. This is a really big deal. And I think that having this as a bylaw would be really important in making sure that that kind of really high bar for something this intense that has this high a potential for abuse really has to clear a super high bar to be undone. And putting something like this into our bylaws I think is a really good step for doing that. It makes sure that this is something we do with incredible intent and gravity. And right now this technology is so unreliable. It is bad. You can just some of the technologies for this are as heavy accuracy rating but it's as low as something like 30%. And they're much worse at identifying women, the elderly, children, people who have facial scars, anyone who is not white, particularly people who are black and Asian. And I don't have to tell you how historically biased and profiled those groups already are in our country. But you can also completely confuse this with makeup getting a black eye, weird glasses. So I mean, if you guys really want the youth of Arlington to start wearing kiss makeup I think we have easier ways to encourage that but this is not just like a moral hazard. This is I think also a safety hazard. There's an enormous amount of information that you would collect in having any sort of tracking with facial surveillance. And no cybersecurity is ever truly perfect. And if either there's a breach in trust or there's a breach in cybersecurity this is the kind of information if you're ever compiling this kind of profile that you do not want malicious actors to have whether that's advertisers tracking you around town or that's your stalker or your abusive ex-husband. Like this is the kind of information that really can damage people's safety. And it's also an enormous amount of information that has to get stored by the town in a large database that's very expensive. This is the kind of technology that's great. Okay, no, thank you. You're at three minutes, we have two more speakers but thank you very much. Fantastic, good night. The next speaker is David Erner. Okay, and we'll have one, I believe we have one more speaker after this and then we will conclude this part of the discussion. Mr. Chair, your speak limit is three minutes and do the public is aware? Is it? Yes, yeah, it's three minutes for members of the public. Thank you, Mr. Hamilton. Thank you, I am David Emmer. I would like to express my thanks to Select Board for the opportunity to speak on Article 13. I live at 37 Windsor Street. I have lived in Arlington with my wife for seven years. We now have a growing family that consists of two daughters. My oldest daughter is starting kindergarten at the Hardy School in September. For a living, I work as an attorney for the Massachusetts State Senate. Today, however, I am speaking in my individual capacity as an Arlington voter. This is my first time speaking for the Select Board. I urge the Select Board to wholeheartedly endorse Article 13, which bans facial recognition technology. Before I speak specifically about facial recognition, though, I want to provide some context for this warrant article with some uncomfortable truths. According to the 2020 federal census, Arlington's population is comprised of just 3% black people. On a percentage basis, Massachusetts has more than four times as many black people as Arlington. If you want to know why this is, I urge you to read The Color of Law by Richard Rothstein. The Color of Law explains how segregation was no accident. To the contrary, centuries of laws, zoning ordinances, restrictive covenants, and official government policies created segregated communities throughout America. With this warrant, we have an opportunity to show that we welcome black people and other people of color to Arlington. Hear me out for a moment on why that is. I am deeply concerned that the unintended consequences of not endorsing this warrant far outweigh the any possible unintended consequences of endorsing it. Facial recognition systems falsely identify black people and other people of color at higher rates than they do for white people.  These consequences are severe. They could lead to police questioning. For nearly a half decade before I joined the state Senate as a staff attorney, I was a trial attorney. In that role, I represented clients that were questioned by law enforcement. I can assure you that just being questioned, even if you are 100% innocent, is scary. Even worse, false identifications can lead to false arrests and jail time. Still worse, false identifications can lead to guilty verdicts and imprisonment of the innocent. An equally pernicious consequence of false identifications is that they lead to unjust plea agreements. These occur when an innocent person pleads guilty to avoid the risk of a more severe sentence after trial. There is a better path. It is the path of Black Lives Matter. Now, sometimes a phrase is repeated so often, we forget what the words mean. The clarion call is Black Lives Matter, not stop Black death. Merely preventing the murder of a person similarly situated to George Floyd or Breonna Taylor is a woefully insufficient response to achieve a racially just Arlington. To lead a fulfilling life, a person, white, black, brown, or any color must feel safe from arbitrary police questioning, arrest, and wrongful conviction. We must ban the use of facial recognition to make three promises to every person regardless of their skin. First, you are safe in Arlington. Second, you are welcome to move to Arlington. Third, if you do so, you will be treated with dignity and respect. Enacting a bylaw to ban facial recognition will not on its own desegregate Arlington. Let us not be naive. Welcoming Black people and all people of color to Arlington will be a lifelong challenge to those of us committed to racial justice everywhere, including here in Arlington. Yet passing this warrant article is one small step in the right direction. I respectfully urge the elected select board to endorse warrant article 13. Let's do it. Thank you. Thank you. The last speaker is Judith Garber. A town name member precinct for Mass Ave. Just gonna keep it short. I support this article. It's been interesting to hear the debate around what bylaws can and cannot do or what previously historically they have been used to do or to not do and the role of town manager versus town meeting. I would support this bylaw. I would also support a resolution or some other kind of solution in order to make the spirit of this bylaw within the town's policies or rules in some other way. Whatever would work for this, although I think Ezra's bylaw is very well-written. I support it. Thank you. Thank you very much. I just wanna say one thing because I think that the proponents of this article would agree with this statement. I think it's just important to be clear if we're gonna revisit this. One, my understanding is that this bylaw does apply to Arlington Police Department just not in a way that's inconsistent with the GLAC. So it's, yes, it applies to other town departments which the GLAC does not cover at all. Everybody's in agreement on that. But it does apply to the Arlington Police Department. It's just important with that. Second, I just want everybody to be on the same page in this, that town meeting is a legislative body but it is not a standing legislative body. Can't go to town meeting for permission to do something as the town manager. We can pass a bylaw and we can amend that bylaw. We can pass a special act. We can amend a special act. We can express the will of town meeting through a resolution but it's not as if the manager can go to town meeting and ask to do something. So I don't think that's what these folks, Mr. Fisher, or Miss, I'm sorry, is it, it's, Crockford, I apologize. Crockford, no worries. I don't think that's what they're proposing at all but I just want to be clear that as we think about this and talk about it, you know, that that's not really an option for us. We've got to have as the pass a bylaw or take some other action. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so I think given the hour it's appropriate for, I think we have some work to do individually between meetings. I appreciate the presentation tonight and we will resume the discussion on March 28th. Do you need a motion to table, Mr. Fisher? Yes, yeah, if I could have a motion to table, second. Okay, so a motion to table by Mr. Heard, seconded by Mrs. Mahan, Attorney Heim. Mr. Heard. Yes. Mr. Diggins. Yes. Mr. Helmuth. Yes. Mrs. Mahan. Yes, thank you. Mr. DeCourcy. Yes. Jim, it's a vote to table. Thank you both. Thank you very much. Okay, so we have final votes. I think given the hour we can, if we could have a motion to table that, the discussion on the final vote to the second. The final votes, comments. Okay, a motion by Mrs. Mahan, seconded by Mr. Heard, Attorney Heim. Mr. Heard. Yes. Mr. Diggins. I think we lost Mr. Diggins. Mr. Diggins. He'll log back on. You know, I might have bumped him out by accident. I'm sorry. It's okay. All right, why don't we- He's back. Okay. Yes, she did. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's okay. What's the motion? That's all I need to know. To table. We're gonna table the discussion on final votes. Oh, yes, of course, please. Okay, so Mr. Diggins, Mr. Helmuth. Yes. Mrs. Mahan. Yes. Mr. DeCourcy. Yes. Okay, unanimous vote. Thank you, Attorney Heim. A new business. Mr. Mahan. Attorney Heim. No new business. Thank you. Mr. Chapter Link. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know it's a very quick share. Congresswoman Clark was in town this morning to announce that she was able to secure for Arlington and seven other communities a $750,000 federal earmark for a regional collaboration to reduce coastal flooding risk up the Mystic River. This will be used to plan substantial improvements to the Amelia Earhart Dam and potentially also the Charles River Dam. And Arlington will be the host fiscal agent due to the good work of both the Mystic River Watershed Association leading the effort but also the Department of Planning and Community Development being willing to step up and be the lead agency for this big earmark. Great, thank you, Mr. Chapter Link. Mr. Helmuth. No new business. Mrs. Mahan. No, thank you. Mr. Heller. The only thing that I was gonna bring in new business and I can just maybe table this for the next meeting was to try to form the board as to what me and Mr. Diggins had come up with for a date for a town day, which would either be the 16th or the 23rd of September, but we'll kind of go towards the next meeting to get thoughts on that. Okay, thank you, Mr. Heller. Mr. Diggins. Sure, just two quick things. There's a virtual town meeting that we can this night tomorrow, 7.30. So any of you running for town meeting, welcome to join that. And then on Wednesday, we get to watch our chair debate himself at the League of Women Voters in the night. I hope I get to go second on a couple of the questions. Thank you, Mr. Diggins. I have no new business given the hour, so I'll take a motion to adjourn. Second. Okay, motion made by Mrs. Mahan, seconded by Mr. Heller. I'm Mr. Helmuth. I'm Mr. Helmuth. Attorney Hyman. Just as good. I'm getting names wrong, left and right. So Mr. Heller. I second it, I just have no voice. Oh, sorry. Yes, Mr. Heller. Mr. Diggins. Yes. Mr. Helmuth. Yes. This is Mahan. Yes, thank you. Mr. DeCourts. Yes. Thank you, we're going. Good night. Good night, everybody.