t those pilots that we've approved already off to a start The other thing is with respect to the um going down the road the office of of uh victim services the the As task force go the Now that we have a fully vested safety department I don't know if the best view or use of that million dollars Is is to is to establish structures that are going to weigh past a million dollars In other words, once this task force is is dissolved or you might ask for an extension like, uh, the, um Racial equity task force did but once this task force, um Is disempaneled because it has an expiration date You kind of find or kind of putting things in the structure that are going to cost a million dollars way beyond the life You know as task force go my thinking was that that million dollars would serve the work of the task force Not necessarily change the org chart or structure of the city Which usually comes from administrative Ask, um, so that that's that's something else. I was kind of wrestling with as well You know because that's that's more than a million dollars and we have a city manager. We have a staff Do we want the task force also adding to the workflow of the of the Um, you can certainly ask to but at this point, I think part of our job Is to make a determination about the bandwidth Uh in capacity and cost So, uh, you know, I'm not saying no, I'm just saying no for now I would I would like to get through this budget cycle and then perhaps take a look at this Down the road when we can do a deeper dive Talk about maybe getting some other folk to help write the check Since the county has representation dps has representation on the task force, but the lion's chair is being asked for from the city So, yeah, those are my thoughts. I think it's a wonderful initiative, but I would be inclined not to And I saw the date as well. You want it done like june this month? I think that And given your your agreement that it could very well be bundled in your final document a list of recommendations My recommendation to the council would be Uh, let's take another look after we get through this budget cycle. Thank you, madam air I do have a a couple of questions that I'd like to raise as well. I think So when you started your presentation was saying that this is sort of a duke initiated study So my question would be I know that the county sits at the table As man for twins indicated during public school sits at that table And and duke is well. So what is the financial obligation for each of those? I know that we are I think I can gain from what Mayor pro tim is saying that the county is has not put any money or have they been requested the money and then what Is duke's um financial? Part in this as well Duke duke is committed Approximately $35,000 to this um and no, we've just this is a recommendation to the county Council So duke has put it in 35. We're being asked to put in how much 112 Okay, the the other question that I would have is what is what do you all see the correlation between I too have some concerns On with us trying to stand up a new department and they are still in the They're actively doing that right now What is your take on the correlation or the relationship between what you're asking now And the community safety department. What what what are you all recommending? As that relationship would that relationship be? Thank you for the question. So we have four roundtables sub subcommittees um This one is coming from subcommittee that's looking into survivors of of violence And and the proposal before you has nothing to do with that department We do have other roundtables that are working hand in hand with the department because this department didn't exist When this task force was formed and so our um crisis intervention roundtable We meet with them they meet with us and we don't what we don't want to just get ahead of a great department That's doing great work or add to that plate And so that would that that's the second part that we would like to see that we passed last night of liking to see Um an office of community safety. I mean it's an office of survivor care But separate from that. This is a part of our ongoing research So the ask before you today is separate from any work or capacity That would be added to the community safety department This is that this is part of our research if that helps clarify the two Second one that we voted on last night in ours Has it come to you yet because we just voted on it and that's something for it is something for down the road But for today's consideration, we're talking about um our research aspect Well, there is no relationship at this point between the ask today and the community Safety department. That's my understanding. It was your round table. So I'll make sure I'm right. Yeah, that's correct We we we looked at it and it just it just seemed like given what is happening in the crisis response That it is the perfect fit because we've got care navigators. We're we're we're We're serving and caring for You know It's not it's a non-legal intervention. We're not asking people what law was broken. We're asking What needs do they have? What of them has been broken? and so That's it just made sense That we have this new department. It just feels right and it made sense That that's it and if you recommend someplace else, that's fine We would just we would really would like to have this information to inform our recommendations And hence also the the urgency of it And I I think that that that information if we can get it and I I preference it that way because What happens in a lot of instances? Is that a lot of people who are involved in these situations are reluctant to talk to anybody? So and when you have that type of reluctance you also They're they're going to have to be some cultural differences that have to be worked out because there are As as dr. Harmon has indicated Sometimes we've not had the best experiences as black people in going into medical settings and and feeling like we are a part of being researched And not really helped So that that that raised some concerns for me Also the other thing, you know When I when I first started running and trying to get my hand around this one of the things that I had broach is an office of Having an office of gun violence Which was still an idea But as I've gotten into this role what I've come to realize that there are lots of great ideas But there are lots of moving parts That that there can be a lot of overlap And so now that we have a community safety department Which encompasses gun violence among other things I've had to rethink that To sort of figure out how do we How do we limit The because we have limited resources How do we make sure that we are Creating structures and organizations that that are that filling gaps and we know we need those gaps feel But we also have to be conscious that there is not a whole lot of money to go along And in that same vein where are the places that we can partner and not just partner and name only But people are actually putting their dollars behind it. So I do find it I know that this task force was set up with a million dollars But if you have other community partners their ass should be the same Now if you're a partner then You're asking us for 112 then Somebody else needs to come up with 112 all the partners that have a pocketbook Need to put some money in that and not just the city of those three big organizations That are talking talked about the county Duke health system and Durham city we we're the Our budget is a little bit smaller compared to the rest of them and do this thing over there with a billion dollar endowment too Is what I hear So I just think that we have to be conscious That If others want to see this type work done, which we we definitely needed I know the gaps that are in that system, but if you're going to be a partner Then partner More than just in name put your money At the same rate that you're asking us to put the same rate and I and I charge that back to do You know split that money 35 000 compared to 112 That's not equal That's not equitable and the county is like zero Nah And Durham public schools a big zero too That doesn't fly well with me. I think it's a great idea, but we got to be fair about resources And who has the big bucks? I would just like to reiterate that this money is for The task force to understand better What is happening in Durham and how do we respond to the needs of survivors that it's not A systemic it's not about You know, it's about individuals telling us What is needed in Durham? So it is task force based Councilwoman johnson Thank you madam mayor. Thanks y'all for coming today and for this proposal Um I've been in the task force meetings kind of watching this whole process come to life and it's exciting to Have you here for for the first? presentation I I think we should support this. I like this proposal. I think um that it's an important piece of the Safety and wellness especially puzzle. It's something that I hadn't really Um ever Considered despite, you know, I have my family has of course like most families been touched by gun violence, but when we Um were in that situation there, you know, there weren't resources For us. I didn't it wouldn't even have occurred to me to go to the city in which the The incident had occurred and asked for some sort of like victim support resource. So um, so this is an interesting Uh an interesting entry into the space that I think is very is very different. Um I would like to know I'm a little bit confused about the nexus between this proposal and this community safety department Would the people who are hired? Be contractors and just like contracts be administered by the department or are you okay? That's what you're proposing Okay, and have I know that you know, ryan and dwayne are in all the meetings have have they Like do they support this are they supportive of administering the contract and they're they don't They don't think that it would be an over an overload on their on their plate That's right. They they've said also because because it is a one-year pilot. It's a very small project actually That there is an advisory group as well circle of of citizens Volunteer citizens to support the work of this too. So It it feels it like um It it wouldn't be much of a burden On on the new department that it could be supported by lots of people and not have to rely on I think I have a couple more questions, but we should we go to bill great Good afternoon. Bo Ferguson deputy city manager for public safety Mayor mayor pro tem members of council just wanted to offer that you know, I have Had conversations with ryan smith about this. I know ryan has been in dialogue As his department and our fuse fellow doing cambell have been with the community safety and wellness task force I want to be clear that the department has not evaluated their capacity to host. I think they have had general discussions about Um, you know the potential value of this work to the community I know they have had I believe conversations about the potential for multiple agencies to Serve as a home for this work But that does not constitute a formal analysis or formal Acknowledgement that they have the capacity at this time. So Want to offer that the clarification and marsha. Hopefully that sounds consistent with conversations you've had Thank you. Thank you That's um, that's yeah, that's great. Thank you bo. So in that case I think that um, we definitely need to have the department more formally evaluate the proposal before we would Um be able to move it forward even though the staff would not be city staff the you know the ability to properly Maintain and manage that contract. I think is um is important on the question of the funding Have y'all approached the county I think the school district should be off the table just due to relative levels of Funds and the school district is Is pretty seriously underfunded not that the city and the county aren't but I would say that of the three I would least want to go to them for money. Um But I think the you know the county potentially could contribute some I do I'm not I'm not worried about the money though. We do the funding is allocated We did approve a million dollars for for this initiative This is half of what we're proposing to spend on shot spotter, which is far less useful. So I'm I'm not I'm not worried about 112 thousand dollars, but if there were if the county was interested in In putting in some funding then, you know, then that would be great, but I think I'm interested to hear my colleagues think but I think the best the The best path forward would be to um send this to the community safety department for A more thorough evaluation and then bring it back to us, but I'm very supportive and I appreciate all of your work on this. Thank you Thank you. Thank you for that. Um, I am In favor of you know, putting a pause for a second so that the relevant department that you all are suggesting Maybe the the home for it at least for at least oversight But I do want to point out that at least for me, this is urgency. These are decisions that we made already this department I mean this task force has a million dollars. There's a reason why we did it We did it partly because we learned from the race equity task force work that we didn't resource that department and so when there were And from other task force or commissions that we've kind of stumbled sometimes because we didn't resource them effectively to actually Move the work forward. So I would say that while I very much support giving Ryan's department the opportunity to really think about is this the right place? Do we have the capacity all of that's critically important? I want to name that we we as a council discuss Gun violence on a regular basis and this is an actual resource And let me be clear. I mean, I'm pretty sure the cdc Is actually banned from doing research around gun violence. We have purposely seen the gun lobby Stymie this kind of research exactly what is being brought up here and and providing victims of violence An access point. I'm sure there is going to be pain points Recruiting them making sure that we're creating a process that really Is caring and trauma informed. I think the folks here are very well aware of it I think the folks on the community safety task force are very well aware of it And I think our community partners are very well aware of it But this is to me a very very urgent need To understand I think every single person on this dais has been touched by gun violence in some form or another Maybe not directly as victims or as family members as victims But I can't think of a single person In this country right now who doesn't quite frankly have terror around gun violence So to me this is one of the most urgent things that we could do and I hope that we don't pause it And we figure out how do we have some consensus? I mean we we need to pause it for The important questions raised around Does the new community safety wellness department have the capacity to take this on if that's not the proper home? Where does it go? But to say oh, we're going to wait another year So that we can tie it to recommendations. I understand why the office is a bigger ask and why that might might need to be Wait, you know, you may need to wait for that and some of these bigger things But I think this proposal is is solid. I've heard the discussions at the task force. Those are public discussions So folks can go back and listen to those Zooms I think that this task force has been extremely intentional and really listening to community and what community needs Are around community Safety and wellness and so I urge my colleagues while we may need to pause for some small details Which to me means it could come back soon And not in a year. I really I I'm asking folks to really lean into the moment We're in and to really trust the folks who are asking For this resource Mayor pro tem. Thank you, madam mayor. I do trust the folk. Um, I think this is a good idea and I just want to Um Be clear and because I want to make sure that the characterizations are correct. Um shots about it would have been free for a year But there was a different council at the time And it's a different council that Attached a million dollars to this task force and it was not a unanimous vote And I you know, I To suggest that we gave them a million dollars because we took a lesson from not funding the racial equity task force I don't think that's accurate because we could have retroactively funded the racial equity task force If that were the case nothing stopped us from applying the lesson in real time Um, we we gave them the million dollars because at that time There was a council who was amenable to the ask of durand beyond policing Um, the million dollars was not I it was it was characterized. I think as a down payment on what they may come up with There were no there was no rubric around the million dollars. There was no Guidance. There was no set of rules. It was not and it's not discretionary That whatever they say they want to do with it. They're going to do with it The million dollars was as a result of a differently configured council. That's how it happened Um, so so I just want to be very clear Um about that with that said Um, it it's it's been over a year and gunfire has been going off that entire year Um, and I you know, I don't know when the idea was first brought but this is the first Time we're hearing from this task force 20 000 dollars out of a million dollars later After a year while gun violence has been going on in our city every night uh, so yeah, we've all Been touched by gun violence and we're all and again like shots bother. This is reactionary This isn't preventing gunfire. This isn't a root cause initiative This is something that happens after people have been shot. So once again, here we are Talking about reactions, which is fine Um, so I I I just want to be clear of how that million dollars Was set aside And if we want to you know compare costs of this relative to shot spotter Shot spotter could have been free But times were different and times are different now and that that's the nature of democracy That's the nature of of you know, the political Context but I want to be very clear. I'm not against this idea I am against however, tasking the community safety department now With more beyond listen if they could have asked for this when they did their budget proposal My assumption is that there's a reason they they didn't I also do not see well I think the work of the safety and wellness task force is vital and important I do not see them for me at least as the fount or source of altering Workflow that that's not how I view Potentially it could ultimately But when we have a budget before us right now That's about to go live at the end of june We have a brand new department that's got its hands full that we're all pulling for that's got some vital Pilots that we haven't even gotten off the ground yet I think it's important to go with what we have established now And let's listen. This is the first time i'm looking at it and i'm getting asked for money the same day the first time i'm seeing it I'd like to look at it some more. I'd like I'd like to go ask the county Do you got five on it? Would y'all like to participate? In funding this uh this proposal Um, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that It's been a year already A couple more months. I don't think we'll we'll hurt us in taking a look at at doing this proposal, right? My recommendation would be that we get through this this budget cycle And then set a date when we can come back and take another look at it See if other folk will go in with us and go forward. I support the idea. I just don't support doing it right now Thank you, madam. Thank you, ma'am pro tem and and I will be in agreement with that I do think that we need to make sure of the relationship Between the new department and this recommendation what exactly that will be give them time To look at that and iron that out. I think that is an important question And I also think it's important As being fiscally Responsible for you know our our part in that we ask our other partners To to see if they're willing also to provide some necessary funds and and once again I would you know go back and ask Duke as well that we we come out of this Equally in terms of the money asked so I am flexible in terms of if someone Would like to offer a timeline We are You know approaching the June 21st date When we'll hopefully approve our A budget so I don't want to task, you know, we're we're already down that road I know our city is also looking at those ARPA funds and they're doing that so I'm conscious that We we will speak it and then People have to change up their whole lifestyles Literally to try to make accommodating and their their plates are already full So I'm really really hesitant about putting something else on them Before we take our break. I'm really hesitant about that councilman Williams All right councilman Councilwoman Freeman. Is it okay if I go? I know you had your hand up. Okay. No worries So I keep using the phrase a suite of options And I consider it as one of those and welcome to being in the middle of this debate now On both sides of the school of thought on the council I Just one concerned regarding duke and I'm a I'll make this question rhetorical I don't want to I don't want you to answer it right now, but I I'd like to know how long we have With you all being a partner in this, you know as a funding partner Um, I am concerned about you know funds expiring um And I the other concern I have is I saw in the proposal it was 40 potential participants um so I I I feel I'm a little uncomfortable comparing You know apples and oranges Shot spotter versus this prescription for repair are two separate things But it's the same council with two separate dynamics I don't want to put you all in the middle of that And I'll say to my colleagues. I'm also uncomfortable with You know, uh, some things will give a chance some things we don't give a chance You know and I say that for myself as well But uh in regards to duke as a partner I'm appreciative of that. I hope that That you will consider, you know continuing to be a partner and I hope that we can expand but my biggest concern is I don't want us to address public safety in such a fragmented way We have 21 million dollars left in arpa that we're going to address and mayor That's what I was about to speak on we have arpa next year. We have a million dollars in this task force um We have 4.7 in the community safety department which has its own task You know, uh, I I if we're going to do it. Let's let's do it not only write what do it big, you know Uh, I in regards of other partners that are playing a role in this I know it's uh, I've been I was always asking uh council member johnson about the construct of this It's an interlocal interlocal relationship. I believe um I I don't know enough about the financial commitments on the front end of this has happened well before me But I will say that I hope that the work that the community safety task force is doing Now that we have arpa funding and potential other funding that's coming down infrastructure and and the budget that we're about to pass We're community with the uh public safety department Parks and rec. I hope that And I I can't micromanage you but I hope that as you go forward You consider your your recommendations being a part of that fabric And I think that's how we can have a bigger impact um So I I I do think that there's muster to Council man pro terms argument of we've seen it today and we're going to vote on it today I'm I'm either way with the pleasure of the council, but I really do You know, I I think we can probably do more So I I I'll invite you to expand on this work In the task force with the bigger over bigger overall project that or recommendation that comes back to us at a at a later time Well, I'll just say one quick comment to that I certainly can't speak for all of duke But the funds that we came through duke came through a specific grant program that sort of launched this whole conversation We've actually been developing this almost over over a year And things take time to evolve. I My one sentiment I will share is that from duke leadership is they are thrilled and honored to partner with the city in this effort they are We will follow your lead and our our job is to be a responsible citizen And if it takes modifying this partnership We'll modify the partnership and I'll go to pat with them that I I think that is Our duty, but at the end of the day This is our community effort and we want to work with you to address this in a very comprehensive way Thank you Thank you. Thank you, mayor. I look forward to Expanding this work I'm a freeman I was just going to ask what what would we be doing with the item I guess because i'm hearing that it needed to be reviewed so that means it's going back to staff And if you needed a motion for that, I was going to make the motion Just in hearing all of the discussion around this item We certainly will bring the item back to the administration. If it is a pleasure of the city council and review some of the logistics around What the task force is recommending To house The program as both Ferguson has mentioned as well as as as timing and bring those recommendations Back to to you all for consideration All right. Thank you. So we will land that back in your hands is that a thumbs up from everybody those back to administration All right. Thank you. Thank you city manager page. Just want to make sure that we are Um Correct on our pulled items. I do want to note that for um, miss bergman and miss stompelkamp on their Cards their sign-up cards. They had indicated they were here on agenda items 15 and 19 Which is incorrect and I have noted that madam clerk on their cards that they were actually here for items 15 and 17 So I do not believe that Item 19 was actually pulled Now, I think that we have covered all of our pulled items except for I think that councilwoman cabrero Had pulled or initially stated some comment. I've been having a hard time hearing Oh, it's like my ears don't work when I got a mask on for some reason But I think she may have pulled or said something about item 16 Yeah, I'll just follow up with staff directly because at the time. Thank you Thank you so much and I believe that that will conclude All of our pulled items Unless I've missed something All right, very good. Now. We we have a couple of um Some hearings this afternoon some public hearings this afternoon, but presentations. I'm sorry Presentations public hearing has legal connotations to it. However, it's 4 17 And I know most humans have been sitting now for one hour and three hours and 17 minutes So we do need to take a break before we start those hearings if you don't mind if you allow us to have about 10 minutes We'll come back in at 4 27. I give about a ample time to kind of stretch out. So we'll get ready for our final presentations this afternoon Megan from the moment d-pack opened. It's been a hit Everybody knows that with great Broadway shows and musical performances. You don't have any trouble at all selling tickets So why are you providing this kind of programming to all drum residents? Why are you making d-pack so accessible? Well, I think I mean you're right d-pack has has had a lot of success But that success is because of our community. It's because we have such a dedicated Really enthusiastic audience and community So I work really hard to to create opportunities so that we really have something for everybody and that all In our community can get into the theater and see some live entertainment So I think that we're getting better and better at that each year We're adding programs and really trying to to make our doors open to all and are building accessible to the community There's no place like home Home is where the heart is It is our place of safety and Home is where love resides memories are created and laughter warms the heart That's why the Durham human relations division is committed to enforcing the fair housing act Which prohibits unlawful discrimination based on race color disability religion sex familial status or national origin Here's some tips to ensure that your garbage and recycling gets picked up One your carts should be put out for collection before 6 a.m. On your collection day Two your carts should be at least three feet from all other objects such as mailboxes telephone poles fire hydrants trees and other carts Three your carts should be no more than three feet from the curb Four no vehicles should be blocking your carts The mechanical arms on our trucks need direct access to your carts and cannot reach around vehicles To find more information about garbage and recycling pickups go to this web address For media del plan access to the idioma los habitantes tienen derecho a solicitar sin costo alguno servicios de interpretación y traducción recibir la traducción de documentos importantes y de comunicaciones de emergencia en espanol Presentar una denuncia de discriminación por motivos de idioma o por no recibir servicios de manera adecuada de acuerdo con la política del plan Access to the idioma de la ciudad Para recibir más información sobre la labor de la ciudad relacionada con el acceso al idioma Visita Durham NC.com diagonal access The Durham city council meetings and planning commission meetings are now available to live stream on all devices Via the city of Durham social media accounts to watch simply go to city of Durham NC On youtube facebook or twitter devices include phones tablets laptops desktops streaming boxes and sticks and smart tvs The easiest way to view the live stream on smart tvs and streaming devices such as the roku apple tv and amazon fire tv Is via the youtube app Now you can follow along with the latest developments in the Durham community at dinner your kids game The mall in bed During a breather in the bathtub and even on the international space station Awesome adventures and great bike shops. I know I can count on Durham for great sports in every season I always count on Durham for amazing cultural events I count on Durham for its innovative ideas and the determination to bring them to life I count on Durham for community and a place for everyone I count on Durham to do a good job and to celebrate our success Did you know that the city of Durham counts on these individuals in a city of more than 260 000 people? You're looking at residents who are making their voices count people who care about the past The present and the future of the city of Durham And you know what it doesn't matter how mature or young whether you're passionate about the economy the arts Or the plight of the homeless in fact we have nearly 30 Boards committees and commissions that you can participate on the requirements are To be a Durham city resident and be current on your Durham city and county taxes Durham is your home You can count on Durham to be there for you. Can we count on you to be there for our city? Can we count on you to be there for Durham? Can we count on you to be there for our city? Can we count on you to be there for Durham? So come on get involved apply today. We can count on Durham But can Durham count on you? Alrighty everybody's coming back in we're moving kind of slow, but we are going to change the order um this afternoon We have a gold triangle here for Presentation item number seven, which is Durham orange light rail transit Uh project expenses and we're going to allow our guests this afternoon to go before My sister miss amberway I hate them 36. I'm sure she doesn't mind so I'll put it in your hands miss eager Thank you Thank you, um, madam mayor president mayor portem And council members, uh, happy to be here today to have a discussion about The Durham orange light rail project expenses I would like to thank the mayor for her role in helping as a gold triangle board member in helping us the staff in developing the presentation back in before She was a member of the board the mayor and I met and we had discussion about some transit issues One of the top things that was mentioned was that communities need for further information on Durham light rail Uh expenses that uh, and I went and looked and checked with my staff. I've been here about two years. There was some information given out before I got here and some after When I looked at it, I agreed with the mayor that this was not adequate that the uh, the information that we had provided before miss the mark and When I in january, uh, I told my board that we're going to redo the information We're going to go back and uh, and based on the advice and guidance from the mayor Uh, commissioner howerton and the rest of my board, uh, we developed this information For our board and uh, I told the board that when they were happy with it We would bring it out to the to the city and to the counties and presented. So, uh, we'll do that right now I'm going to introduce uh, saundra freeman our cfo and katherine eglson our chief of development To start the presentation. We'll start with saundra freeman. Thank you very much Thank you and good afternoon to everyone bear with me as I make sure I understand how to advance the screen here What I want to do first is just uh, spend a few minutes talking about fta, which is a federal transit administration Uh, they provide financial and technical assistance to local public agencies transit systems such as a go triangle Uh, in order to advance uh, large capital projects, which in our case was a light rail project The federal funding process is one that I really want to focus a little bit of our time on There are three phases to the fta process. There's a project development phase This is their engineering phase and then there's a full funding grant agreement phase And you do not get your money until you get to that last phase You have to spend money to get money and fta was uh, Committed in working with us to provide 50 of the funding for this two billion dollar project We spent a significant amount of time throughout the project working with fta Meeting with them on a regular basis to answer questions They uh, obviously if they're going to give out that kind of money They want to make sure that you have the resources that you need That you have the support of the community and that you have a plan to move forward And so I do want to emphasize that fta worked with us from the very beginning of this process And it nowhere along the way did they indicate that there were concerns about our ability to deliver on the project We started in the project development stage. You have two years to get through that You have to complete your environmental review And select your locally preferred alternative go triangle advance through that stage Within the two-year time frame that was required by fta The next phase of the project was the engineering phase This is where you get a lot of your commitments in place and get all of your funding in place And make sure that you have sufficient engineering and design Fta again work with go triangle to ensure that they were comfortable that we were moving forward in a way That we could get into that full funding grant agreement phase Unfortunately, the project was canceled before we could get out of the engineering phase We were very near completion of engineering And moving into the full funding grant agreement phase where go triangle Could apply and receive money from fta, but the project was canceled. Excuse me before we could get there A little bit about the background and the timeline for how this project came about This was a vision that started back in May 2008 by a group of individuals. They were both universities People from the community business people as well as the county in the city and the mpo That came together to have this vision of a light rail project that would go between Durham and orange counties In 2011 durham county actually took the lead And the voters passed the half-cent sales tax with a 60 favorability And the durham county commissioners approved light rail as part of the bus and rail investment plan The following year in 2012 orange county voters also passed the half-cent transit sales tax at about 59 favorability and again the orange county commissioners approved the light rail as part of the bus and rail investment plan Additionally, there was a cost sharing agreement arranged between durham and orange in terms of who would pay what percentage of the cost of the project Just some other quick notes on uh, how engaged the community was and our partners were the dchc mpo added it to their transportation plan in 2013 Uh, the fta again as i mentioned approved us to go into project development We got through the first phase of project development In 2015 dchc mpo durham county city town of chapel hill and orange county unanimously endorsed a preferred alternative for the light rail In 2016 we got our final an fbis, which is a final environmental impact statement and a record of decision And then in november 2016 we added north carolina central university as a station in the to the project We continued and again, we moved along uh, what we felt was uh, well what fta felt was at the appropriate pace We got a record of decision All along the way There were discussions. This is what the plan looks like This is what is entailed in putting that plan together. These are what the dollars look like And in april of 2017 when we did an analysis of the dollars That were going to be needed because of some of the changes that had been made to the plan Orange and durham got in a room and renegotiated their cost share So, uh, that was a great commitment on both both sides We want this to work. And so there was a renegotiations renegotiation of the cost share durham picked up a higher amount And allowed orange to take a lower percentage Again, um, one other highlight. I want to make we did purchase uh, some property In january of 2018 we were authorized to Uh, acquire some property for our rump, which is our rail operations and maintenance facility We did that and uh, we have that property to this day Uh, with some discussions at some point of how that will be disposed of or how it will be utilized And in march of 2019 the go triangle board unfortunately voted to cancel the light rail project This is the slide that we have shared in the past and uh, we we've gotten feedback that we needed to provide more detail behind it Which we have done But overall between the beginning of the project and june 30th 2021 I'm sure you're familiar with this number 157 million dollars The breakout of those dollars are as shown on this chart and again Catherine we're going to quite a bit of detail. We had 131 million dollars that was spent on management and design This is a lot of the work that has to get done, frankly And again, I want to just say that fta Work with us all along the way looking at the money that we're spending looking at the resources that we had in place To make sure that we had what we needed to deliver on this project We had 16 million in uh, administration and staff support cost We had a um an office here in Durham To ensure that a lot of the Connections that needed to be made when we had to come over to city hall or have a meeting Instead of go triangle having to spend money and time running back and forth between go triangle and here We situated an office right in the heart of Durham to facilitate a lot of great discussion We spent 6.2 million on real estate acquisitions And other expenses we had some professional services, which were about 3.8 million and again that total was 157 million dollars I want to talk a bit again about those expenses the 157 million dollars As I mentioned, uh Durham and orange worked very well together on this project At the beginning the cost split between the two counties was 81 And a half was excuse me was 80 percent Uh 20 is that's what ended up being the average 80 percent in Durham and 20 percent in orange The initial cost share was 77 percent Durham and 23 percent orange But after the renegotiation to the 81 and a half percent Durham 18.5 percent orange We ended up at 80 20 that was a great uh concession on Durham's part because they were committed to the project And they recognized that in terms of the funding and uh some of the other changes that needed to be made That Durham was able was willing to go on the hook for a little bit more money Of the total I mentioned the 131 million dollars on management and design that is about 83 percent of the project Which is what we would expect early on before we get into construction 16 million was spent on administration and staff on a project this size you expect somewhere between 10 and 12 percent And we were right in line with that We spoke about the real estate which was 6.2 million and there was another 3.8 million on professional services and operations Which was about three percent of the total Catherine is going to spend some time talking to you about the various consultants that we used on the project And uh who they are what they did and answer questions you may have about that Thank you saundra. Good afternoon Saundra said i'm going to go into some detail to answer the questions of Who received this money and what did they receive it for? So saundra explained the largest category of funding was for management and design expenses in order to Construct a project that's overall cost is in excess of two billion dollars. You have to design it Before you can get to that construction phase So i'm going to go through on the next series of slides and explanation of the four major consultant contracts On the project at the time of its discontinuation Also get into a couple of other um smaller dollar Contracts um that are in this management and design category. So all of the Consultant contracts that i'm going to describe here were procured using an open competitive process with Qualifications based selection, which is the type of procurement process that's required by the fca and by the state for these architecture and engineering type of contracts for design So our first one the project development consultants go triangle procured services from u r s corporation for this that's a large national firm international firm really um headquartered in california During the course of their work on the project u r s was acquired by a com so you'll see u r s and a com in here Also a very large firm over 50 000 employees Have local offices in north carolina in raleigh morrisville and charlotte so This firm was engaged to Perform services during the project development phase, which is the environmental review phase and preliminary engineering so They developed all of the environmental documentation To get that record of decision that sondra mentioned as well as a Engineering to an approximately 30 level for the project that was then handed off to the General engineering consultant, which i'll talk about next so in all in this category about 27 million dollars of expenses Second major contract. This is the largest one was with hdr This was the general engineering consultant again. This is a large national firm. They're headquartered in nebraska With local offices in charlotte and raleigh and a couple of others in north carolina They were engaged as i mentioned to be the general engineering consultant So that's taking the 30 preliminary plans and developing those to be prepared for construction So all the way to 100 ready for bid so this involves Field survey investigations geotechnical boardings all that and then development of the plans and specifications As well as the environmental management to ensure that those commitments made and the record of decision Make their way into the design and then ultimately are implemented The third category of major consultants that we had was the program management consultant for that We engaged with hntb again a large national firm. This one's a little smaller than the others It's still a big firm with local offices in raleigh and charlotte hntb was engaged to provide Program management services, which is basically an extension of agency staff to manage a program as large as this as complex as this And with disciplines that go triangle does not currently have rail operations safety specific to rail operations And then also oversight and staffing for the real estate acquisition program as an example So in all hntb This team was paid about 12 million dollars for their services The last major contract that we had was with a joint venture of gannett fleming and wsp again national firms Again, if Fleming is on the smaller side wsp is one of the larger ones again 50 000 plus employees So this joint venture was engaged to be the construction management consultant So during the course of the project before its discontinuation They were paid about 3.2 million dollars for services related to preparation for construction The project had continued. They would have been Doing the inspection and construction management during that construction phase So there are pre construction services included support for cost estimating detailed scheduling Constructability assessments and workforce development planning So that's a summary of the four major consulting firms the next few slides You'll see the detail of all of the sub consultant Firms that were included on those teams before we get to that as I mentioned just a few other Smaller contracts in this management and design expense Category about a million dollars spent on a financial consultant To support the modeling risk management and development of financial plans necessary To submit to the federal transit administration We spent about six hundred and fifteen thousand dollars to procure Ebuilder project management software That's one element that has been retained by the agency when the project was discontinued We repurposed that software to be used for our small and mid-sized capital projects So we use that today on projects that we implement regionally as well as projects that we Implement on behalf of the city of Durham for example the bus stop improvement program that go triangle manages We use this ebuilder software to To manage those projects maintain the documentation and do the financial management for that We also spend about four hundred thousand dollars on design review reimbursements That's reimbursements to partners like the city of Durham for reviewing all those engineering designs typically Local partners even the state DOT and TRR don't don't have Staffs large enough to review designs in a timely manner when there's a huge project going on So it's typical for agencies like ours to reimburse for staff time and consultant time To review those plans and engage in a timely manner So as I said, I have a number of slides here that List all of the firms that were on each of these teams You'll see these split out into the disadvantaged business enterprises, which is similar to the mwbe program or hub program that you're familiar with You'll see here on this slide the goals that we had for each of the contracts was between 8.8 percent on the low end and 15 Percent on the high end. You'll see the actuals on the next couple slides And then we also have a listing of the non dbe Subcontractors as well So on this slide this shows all the Dbe contractors the dollar amounts paid to the firms as well as the race Ethnicity gender and location of the firms you'll see on here a mix of north carolina based firms and firms Based elsewhere Some of the firms based elsewhere were selected by the primes for their prior work on other projects Or for discipline specific expertise specific to To rail programs So you see her on the left hand side the actual dbe participation Generally in in excess of those goals in the range of 10.7 to 18 and a half percent As opposed to the 8.8 to 15 percent that you saw in the previous slide Next slide here again the the non dbe contractors This is the list of the firms the amounts and then the locations same on this one about 50 50 between firms based in north carolina and then firms based elsewhere So i'm going to hand it back over to sondra to walk you through the administration and staff and then i'll come back to talk about real estate in a few minutes So one thing that is very important about FTA and again, they don't give money Unless they're very comfortable that we have the capacity that is needed to Maintain and run such a large capital project So they spent a lot of time with us looking at they asked for resumes for everybody that was on the team They asked for work charts They uh interviewed individuals just to make sure that we had the capability and the capacity To deliver on this project and the right mix of both internal staff and consultants So we did have uh administrative staff support We had as i mentioned a project office that was located in downtown durham We spent about 14.9 million dollars on the staff and administrative support Which i indicated is about 10 of the total of the project, which is right in line with with what you would would expect The staff did quite a bit of work the design and engineering plans for the project All of the requirements that uh fta has in place for a new starts program It is very very cumbersome It's a lot of detail and we had an expert who literally spent Every day just going through making sure we didn't miss a mark where fta was concerned We also did a lot of project coordination with our local government partners We looked at the real estate acquisition activities and we had an individual who led that We had to use our legal department obviously for our land use entitlement And support for our local planning efforts along with the real estate Lot of communications with our project property owners Go try and go took that very seriously We wanted to reach out Often often and more often to any property owners that might be or and businesses that would be impacted by this light rail And uh, we had a team of people who went out on a regular basis to meet with people and answer questions My team was responsible for the financial modeling the budgeting the procurement and the administration piece So fta again spent a lot of time understanding and making sure that I had the resources in place For what I needed and then we had legal obviously a legal staff That was engaged throughout all areas of the project And the other professional services we had about 3.8 million dollars A significant amount of that was related to the redesign of an impacted facility at UNC Chapel Hill It was a golf course and so we had to do work to ensure that Any issues concerns were mitigated based on what we were doing with the rail project We also set up a nonprofit fundraising venture What we hope to have occur with that is to allow individuals businesses corporations That wanted to support not just the light rail project but transit in general to be able to contribute This was a nonprofit again a nonprofit organization Individuals could donate tax-free and so we had a consultant to come in to actually look at the potential For what might be available if we took on such a project And set it up, which we did We also had our outside legal counsel Parker poe which and Bernstein Which we needed for a lot of the work that was being done And then there were some minor financial services that we needed doing the project development phase I'll turn it back over to Catherine to talk about the real estate piece Thanks, Sandra. Sandra said about 6.1 million dollars Suspense on expenses related to acquisition of real estate for the rail operations and maintenance facility If the project had moved forward a lot of other property would would have been needed along the alignment for the location of the tracks and park and ride Facilities and so forth But at the time of the project's discontinuation The maintenance facility was the only property that had been acquired in advance To to ensure that it could proceed through the entitlements process necessary to prepare for construction So about 4.7 million dollars was actually spent on the acquisition costs to the property owners the additional 1.3 million was for The related expenses administrative things like appraisal site reviews site preparation As well as relocation payments To folks that were relocated And the and the outreach and communication that Sandra mentioned earlier So in total, you see the properties here. I think it's about 13 properties all located on fairington road Between fairington road and i-40 and in the western part of Durham So as Sandra mentioned earlier go triangle owns these properties now There's a memo in your packet about potential disposition options We have been Awaiting conclusion of the updated transit plan to identify potential other transit use before moving forward with Disposition of either of a whole property and then repayment to the transit plan for those dollars that were used or Potentially identifying a portion of the site that could be used for another transit purpose. So That's more to come on that And I think that concludes our presentation. I'm going to ask Chuck to come back up here And oh happy to turn it back Thank you all so much for this today. I would open up to My colleagues for any questions that they may have any questions All right, I'll start I will ask a series of just really direct simple questions Because I really hope this is the last time we have to talk about light rail But I want to make sure that you know The reason why we're that'll be the the reason why it'll be the last time is because we just really clearly put all the information out there of what's happening And then I'll ask a series of questions about what's next all right so If i'm understanding the timeline we About a little over a decade ago. We Came up with this idea of you know regional transit And I think Probably You did a good job at explaining what happened to the money Help us help our constituents understand the funding structure Let's start there who funds what? um Because The regular every day Durham might look and say all right Durham your transportation department is filling with the transit system Uh, but it gets really complicated and I'll ask that you spell out acronyms So that folks who are listening to this so we can go back and reference it can be educated So I really mean it. I don't want you guys coming before talking about this again. I'm ready to talk about what's next So who funds what how does this transit work and shawna if you need to tag to evening Talk about in terms of the light rail project and the Durham transit plan Uh, I mentioned the haveson sales tax So the dollars that funded the light rail project that fund the Durham County transit plan at which uh, the city gets the benefit of some of those dollars There is the have since sales tax which was passed Specifically to support transit as they transit related tax There is also a and and the purpose of all of this was to have not just a rail project But to have enhanced and increased bus service So we had the have since sales tax, which was anticipated at that time The majority of the money would be supporting the rail project But there is also a three dollar registration tax that comes to go triangle to provide Expanded and enhanced service in Durham And there is a seven dollar registration tax that is used to provide Enhanced service in Durham the city of Durham has access to those dollars And uh, there is also a piece that allows for increased cost of existing service Because obviously you expect that the the baseline service is going to go up And so additionally the city of Durham has the opportunity to use up to 50 percent of that seven dollar registration tax For increased cost of existing service. So your transit plan is funded by And and and plus the rental tax 50 percent a portion of the rental tax that go triangle receives So it's a have since sales tax which was passed as a transit tax. There's a three dollar tax There's this registration tax. There's a seven dollar registration tax and there's a portion of the rental tax So that is what encompasses the transit plan. That is what it's used to fund the projects That were expected to happen not just the light rail But in transit as as a whole Durham city or Durham county Durham county. It's Durham county tax Durham county voters voted for the have since sales tax So Durham county said Durham county folks voted for this For the benefit of The city so the transit plan funds a lot of the activities that shan receives the benefit of as well as go triangle in support of Yeah, so we have access to the funding by way of the county Yes What happens is uh every year there's a work plan You probably heard about the transit plan and the transit which is the budget Yeah, or what we're going to do which turns into the budget So there's a uh, we have what we call a staff working group There's a representative from go triangle from the mpo and from Durham county and that is going to change With with the new agreements. There's a vote each year During the budgeting process on what projects should be moved forward and they come to go triangle for final approval And all governing bodies have to vote on that from the county to the mpo to go triangle, uh, the rep there. Yes the three representatives the three representatives So go triangle is the regional facilitator of transit The mpo the mpo is Durham and orange county. Yeah, they're two separate staff working groups But yes, it's germ county the mpo and go triangle those are the three Entities that vote and recommend as of right now. We're working in ila. So that's subject to change But as of right now, those are the three entities that vote And Durham county well, they recommend let me say it this way they recommend Uh, what should go in the plan go triangle the board as part of the budget votes on on it And and the presentation it showed up to 2018. I believe that all bodies voted and then 2019 project cancel or Ended Could you talk about what happened in in that point right there? Because it seems the presentations looks like it Everything's going well and then it just ended. So I want to I want to make sure folks understand What happened between that year? I'm going to let my illustrious ceo articulate exactly what happened So, you know My understanding is that That there were several agreements that needed to be had one with duke Because the light rail was going to Go through their campus Also the north carolina railroad corridor was going to be used for a portion of the The light rail project And there was also some state funds that were going to be made available for the project In which the state legislature had Imposed a timeline When these funds could be available or up until when they could be available for the project My understanding is that the the agreements with duke and ncrr were not able to be executed And also the timeline was expiring for the availability of state funds and that caused the board to act to Cancel the project because it was no longer viable From that standpoint. So the right away was going away state funding was going away. How much was the state funding kathryn? 127 million 147 million dollars of state funding was going to disappear On the project But at the time it was canceled Is that 147 million of the 157 million? No, that was monies that were going to be spent after the project got into Into construction got you so once we had gone past the engineering phase to get to the actual Yeah, you get to the full funding grant agreement. Yeah, and then the other funds were going to kick in and we weren't going to make those dates especially with the You know the project not being able to reach agreements on the On the right away Got you And I'm going to ask my colleagues to bear with me on this because I want to this is a this is a lot of money that You know, folks want to know what happened to and we need to you know, take the time to understand it Um, is there indeed do we know why the general assembly had a timeline? or what motivated that timeline on That funding was it was it like the fiscal calendar or something? So I I don't know. I don't know if it was a fiscal calendar if it was arbitrary I think at one point there was an agreement that the state would put some money into the project and then And they decided that at a certain point the money was not going to be available So I will not assume that they knew we were not going to be able to get something so big done so quick but It does leave me to want to explore that Okay, so now that we have this Now that we have, you know, we're at the point where it's down it's 2019 is over At what point did we introduce? commuter rail I think about a year later, right by a year later. We started the phase one started when So it's about the same year as the project was canceled Phase one of the current feasibility study started around that same time. However commuter rail was part of the Durham transit plan that was adopted back in the 2011-2012 time frame as an element of that plan And earlier studies major investment study on commuter rail was initiated after the 2016 transit tax referendum in wake county The commuter rail project was sort of put on hold following the 2011-2012 plan adoption because there was not a partner at that time in wake with funding for transit So in 2016 when the wake funding came into play Studies for the commuter rail began with that major investment study And then as truck said the kind of phase one of the feasibility study that we're doing now started around the same time in 2019 Thank you In in regards to regional transit Durham is the common denominator Light rail with orange and now commuter rail with wake What lessons have we learned? Moving forward so that we won't find ourselves at another fail to project So A lot of lessons first of all, you know making sure that you have your agreements in place You know before you take the project into advanced engineering Is key I participated in other large rail projects in maryland And that was a key component having the mo use in place Prior to moving forward to full funding grant agreement. So there's that there's also I think that while they are The legislative bodies the elected leaders had probably received reports from time to time Certainly more detailed about the financial reports could be made to you and to the counties Involved in other project stakeholders. They might have a funding skin in the game so to speak There's that Apta came in aptas the american public transportation association They came in and did a peer review On the project after the project was cancelled So a team of volunteers from apta namely Other transit agency folks from around the country took a look and they made some recommendations I'll let katherine talk a little bit about those recommendations But certainly, I think there's I think that was probably one of the Top things that we could take away From the failed project and to You know take with us as we go forward and other large scale projects if we choose to answer into them Do you want to talk for a minute about the apta report? Of course Chuck said there was an apta peer review There were a number of transit agency executives including ceo Of a transit agency a number of other top level executives From from large transit agencies around the country with a successful track record of project delivery Who came in interviewed? Members of go-tangles team go-tangles board as well as some project partners To understand the situation And make recommendations for moving forward. So there is a report available on our website with those recommendations Developing additional in-house capacity for Major project delivery prior to embarking on Additional major projects was a key piece Go-tangles board after that Brought in chuck who is as he mentioned has a big project experience from another major actually one of the largest FTA capital projects from around the country and there were other recommendations related to board governance related to taking Incremental steps such as the feasibility study that we're completing now for the commuter rail To really assess in-depth Risks to project success early in the project and develop a broad base of Of lasting community support. It's very difficult to maintain a high level of buy-in for a complex project That's very expensive has Funding uncertainty particularly related to the state funding and the changes that we saw there And so the recommendation really was to ensure that there's a A strong foundation of regional support for a major project Earlier and prior to moving forward and and to very carefully evaluate that With the board and with project partners early and along the way I would also add that the Phase two of the feasibility study that's going on right now for commuter rail reflects a lot of that we're invested heavily in Figuring out what the construction challenges are early A large portion of the nine million dollars that has been spent on this phase of study Goes into figuring out The complexities of durham and building another one or two rail lines through durham and how the impacts are What the construction challenges are what these challenges to schedule would be Carries also complex To bring a lot more trains through There's also some issues that we need to address and Raleigh at the train station there. Maybe having to operate off a separate platform You know also doing a heck of a lot more public outreach I think then was done last time we've done this time So investing in ensuring that we know what the problems are ahead of time What the land acquisition issues are what the other complexities of the project are Where the points of risk are are going to be detailed in this feasibility study In a lot greater detail even taking on some of the issues like the light rail suffered from having a disagreement with Norfolk southern and ncrr What the issues how the project would be insured and who would be indemnified if there was a problem You know that issue at the time of the project was the light rail project was cancelled was still not resolved In large part we have resolved that issue in ncrr an asset right now So we got that done early. I think it was essential in order to gain their cooperation for the commuter rail lights Excuse me the commuter rail study That that that we Resolved those issues early this time so And I think this is uh I think what you have here is going to be a much better product much more thorough Much more comprehensive it'll include A host of recommendations from building out the entire project the segments And I I think this feasibility study will offer a lot more to To the region decision makers You know as we complete it in next month Thank you, mayor. Uh, I'll I'll yield and um, I have a few more questions later Yield to my colleagues Thank you madame. Thank you councilmember williams uh for your your line of inquiry Um, this will be my first time speaking about light rail in public since march 2019 Um For a number of reasons when first of all this was going to be a $2 billion project So I want to put that 157 million in context with the two billion Much like we have to do with our 95 million affordable housing mon in context with a 160 million plan I think it was billed at that time It would have been the largest infrastructure project to date in north carolina if it if it had gone through All kinds of economic boom would come to durham in the region For black folk in haytie. It was billed as the physical reconnecting of haytie with downtown that 147 had dissected So a lot of people's hopes and dreams were tied up in this I said I wouldn't speak about it again because my life got really weird during that period Because one of the things um, and I I was looking through the report Um, so let me start this way. One of the things that's not listed in here is that Some of our real estate acquisitions were acquired through eminent domain Right. I remember when the folk from farrington road filled this room up When we got the land for the rail operation maintenance facility, we used eminent domain When I suggested perhaps using eminent domain on duke all hell broke loose And and and it's not that I was anti-duke for me. It was an equity and fairness issue Because the eminent domain threshold had already been crossed For regular citizens So we learned the valuable lesson about power in this city and who really wields power Light rail will go down as a case study On who really wields power in this city Um, so when you talk about government officials and governing bodies, you know, what we have the stomach and political will to do Um, I just merely recommended it. I got threatened on tv low-key by executives All kind of crazy Messages to me for simply saying Why don't we treat everybody fairly in this process? So then march 2019 came and the vote was um was had I'm gonna say something For me the money was never missing It was something far worse. It was wasted We knew where the money went. We bought a ring We hired a caterer We paid for the hall We bought cases of champagne We hired the dj We rented suits and had dresses made We paid for tickets for the honeymoon, but the wedding never happened And then we wanted to go back and ask all of those service providers for the money back and I said, I'm sorry It's not we already cooked the food We already popped the champagne. It was non refundable We wouldn't be having this conversation if light rail had come to fruition Because it would be two billion dollars and and 157 million would look like nothing compared to the two billion So we are here because the wedding didn't happen So there was there was never any question in my mind, you know, because if the money were missing Then at least we could go after somebody and put them in jail You know that the attorney general could prosecute we could investigate if there was malfeasants If the money was stolen, but we can't put anybody in jail because it wasn't stolen. It was wasted Which is far worse and far more hurtful So so, you know, when we talk about real estate acquisitions, I want to be very clear That some of this was Who were willing to flex on and who were not willing to flex on as a government? Um, I'm going to be very clear about that. So so moving forward. I guess my question is Will our governing bodies Commit and are they prepared if we have to use eminent domain again for commuter rail? Are we prepared to use it equitably? Uniformly and across the board and do we foresee that matter even coming up and do we need to start working on agreements now? So So for commuter rail, it's it's a different ball game, right? So it's it's going to be in the Uh, North Carolina railroad corridor All the rail all the trains will operate within the corridor. None of it goes through duke And it's all in the corridor is generally 200 feet wide Throughout it gets a little tighter here in Durham Because you know, you have build up around the corridor around the around the tracks and more so than other areas of the Of the Clayton west Durham, uh, you know area that we're looking at right now Where there might be some property acquisition might be for the stations, you know, so where the stations are and I would have to say that You know, we have a plan for the stations We we haven't looked at if there's yet if there's a need for eminent domain. Obviously you want to go to a property owner and you want to have a Good buyer seller relationship with that owner If it's a business you might be able to accommodate a move for them You know, but if there's uh, if there's a need for eminent domain We don't know what that is right now if there is a need for any eminent domain But the station footprints are going to be a heck of a lot smaller than All the property that was going to be needed For the for the light rail project Because the light rail project was you know, it needed its own right away when it got outside of the ncr Our corridor needed to go through duke need to go through other areas need to go through streets And in some places those streets would have to be widened. So certainly You know a lot more challenging as the property acquisition for a light rail Similar to the project I worked on in maryland. We had a 225 million dollar property budget Which we exceeded by 20 million dollars Because of all the property that needed to be done, but for the most part even in maryland There was very little eminent domain used it was mostly It was a cooperative relationship with the with the property owners for the most part There was times we had to go to court and reach a settlement with the owners In order to get possession of the property But you know, I think for the majority of the property on the maryland project We didn't need it. I don't see and that was a light rail project So light rail again in the street going through, you know parks and things like that So it was much more complex. This project is different So until we get into some kind of design We won't know exactly how much property we'll need for stations and for parking lots You know, hopefully if there is parking and station development, we can do that in cooperation with developers That would want to be situated and build near a station But right now, you know, I can say that the eminent domain issue Is it's going to be minor compared to what the light rail Well, you'll understand our caution because we've been hurt before Another nuance of some of those engineering costs were changes Because duke wanted the the rail elevated past the emergency room And anytime you change engineering drawings or architectural diagrams, that's big money So even before we couldn't negotiate the final agreement with duke We were already spending money to accommodate their wishes Through through engineering drawings and architectural changes for the light rail So some of that money is that now is it criminal? No, is it waste? Yes. And and and so again the money not missing. It's wasted. It's wasted money Um, and I hope that the lessons, you know, councilmember. Williams asked about the lessons. I hope moving forward You know those lessons will will be taken to heart and and that a healthy birth and allowance for skepticism and concern on the behalf of people of durham will be allowed because they You know, they plucked the string the most emotional and historically important string for black folk That haytie would be restored and rejoined to to downtown in a in a tangible physical way through light rail Till the big boys showed up in the room and and and you know But anyway, or big girls big folk showed up in the room But hey, um, it feels good to talk about it again. I've sat through a a few iterations of these This has been the most detailed one thus far and I hope it brings some sense of understanding and comfort if not relief to the folk of durham. Thank you very much. Thank you madam mayor Councilwoman cabello Thank you madam mayor. Uh, good afternoon. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate the very detailed presentation This microphone really doesn't like me. Um, I just had a couple of questions not so much about Not so much about the presentation itself, but one of the things that you talked about with your lessons learned Um Is around the incremental steps around design and just curious with the commuter rail knowing some of the design complexities, especially in the downtown corridor Are we thinking that a incremental or phased approach will be a better fit than trying to do the entire corridor at once? So that's a good question and I would have to say that it really depends on Um With the three county partners that are involved right now, johnson waking durham Each county has different priorities. Each county has different Transportation issues and you are going to experience your growth differently, right? So, um, I think wake is going to experience the The most growth in between the rtp and uh and rally corridor You're going to get a heck of a lot of growth here In durham even the 15501 corridor to your to your south and west is going to get a lot of growth Although this project doesn't cover that So and what and what what do you need? Right now in order to transport folks around to get them the jobs and other opportunities So that's a decision here if If durham said, okay, you know heck we're we're we want to be part of commuter rail But maybe maybe we want to be in a different phase What we're going to do is provide a study That's going to show the whole thing from clayton all the way to west durham and it's going to have All the costs put in so you're going to get everything in so you're going to get a large cost You're going to get for for the large project, but that doesn't mean Um at the end of the day that it's johnson county decides for instance, uh that they don't want to be part of it That doesn't mean that a segment can't be dropped out or one segment could be prioritized over another segment Um, I think it all depends on what the priorities are for the city and for the county In durham and also in in roley and wake and johnson too. So they all got to figure out their priorities might now Um, I was just in johnson county on monday And johnson county is dealing with a lot of issues related to growth Many many issues that they are never had to experience before and I would say that they are um Um, I am not sure that they are going to be in the first phase of commuter rail based on the comments I received From johnson county. So that's so that's that's that's something that they've already asked this question has already come up this week I would say this project is scalable and not only if you build a portion of it I think it's also this is just phase one right So, um, I think there's opportunities to expand the project after Uh, a segment is built I think the big thing right now is to get a project into the corridor in north carolina railroad And get the cooperation of the north carolina railroad and norfolk southern and amtrak all on board with the idea And uh, and also that commuter rail can be built here in the triangle Thank you. Um, just to follow up for that. So I I understand that whole process But then with the funding, you know, if We're having to tie and I'm going to say this so a johnson county doesn't have a transit tax They don't collect one. So really this is on on durham and wake And I do want to name that for the public. Um, they they could pass that but they have it. So, uh, I think that's really important to know who's actually paying for things. Um And then secondly when we when we talk about our transit plan and another thing that I do want to name Which was said in the earlier part of the presentation I really want to emphasize for residents There's three parts of the stool and the city of durham is not one of those parts right now The three parts of the stool are the mpo, which we do have our presentation on councilmember williams and I are there Uh, um, go to our angle board, which the mayor sits there and historically the mayor has been there former mayor she was in that seat as well and then Durham county So I just want to also name for our residents that we are In adjacent power to a lot of this we do not have Direct oversight into the 20-year funding plan It is it is different agencies who lead this while we do have some votes there It's not the same thing and I think there is confusion Especially when you have the city of Durham and county of Durham as to who's doing what and I think a lot of our residents Are confused so I want to name that as well my my concerns So I hear what you're saying about this phased approach or those segments and where we build it But do we have to show the funding up front? Like if we're planning for the whole corridor, even if we're not saying we're going to do We're going to focus on this or this kind is going to do this piece How do we frame that because if we're putting it in our transit plan that we don't actually get to vote on How do we um Make sure that we have enough dollars or are we just going to be hoarding all the money into one project? Even if it's not ready to go Okay, so um right now the the Durham county transit plan Has a certain Amount that is already targeted for commuter rail in its draft form and the plan hasn't been finalized yet It's going to be in the next couple of months. It's going to be finalized What they have in there is a 20 share on a close to a two billion dollar number, right I think that when the feasibility study is released, uh, you know It's going to be the numbers for the project is going to be more than that because in the year of expenditure with the inflation Like it's going today. You're going to have a higher project cost coming And we're still determining what that cost is going to be But when the feasibility study is finished, you're going to have a higher So there's going to be a there's going to be a very active discussion about how how does durham county in its transit plan pay for Help pay for this project now. There is still a A gap between what durham county and what wake county is Things that they have agreed to pay for So, uh, right wake county has not agreed to an 80 20 split So right but durham is at a 20 percent because durham has said that This is what we can afford and also accomplish our other transit priorities for bus service Which are very good priorities and and very important to durham So, um, so there is still a lot of discussion that has to be had When the train when the feasibility is final study is finalized and I think that's a very healthy discussion to have You know transit plans are uh, you know, whether it be a However, the financing is found whether it be through uh additional half penny on the sales tax or some other mechanism You know, I think I think that the That comes after the study is released. I know that you have a Durham county has a very healthy budget set aside for commuter rail But it's it's certainly going to There's going to be more money needed based on that they have a they can kind of constrain their contribution For the entire project. So again the entire project could be scalable It could be uh, if you know, but I think that's that's that's a discussion that's yet to be had Because the report has not been finalized Thank you so much. I really appreciate that and I look forward to continuing this conversation I've said it many times. We need to do everything around transit. We need to have commuter rail. We need to have a really excellent Local bus system and we need to have brt and we're going to have a figure out how to get there. Thank you so much We do need all of that. I agree with you Thank you councilwoman cabrera. Are there any other questions of Mr. Lutuguel or his Is elgo son of mr Egan I'll Ask just a few more minutes to be yet If we take a phased approach How attractive is that to federal support? So I think that um, if if the project were phased, uh, I think that Um, that takes the federal government perhaps Uh, the process they were going to use the new starts process Uh, I I don't think that's the right program for a phased approach, right? So there might be, uh, Depending on how big of a phase you build How much money is needed? Uh, then we can kind of rethink that so I would think that would be local dollars, right? Maybe some uh, go triangle has the authority to bond So some borrowing, uh, there are other federal programs tiffin Tiffia and rift programs where you can get loans from federally guaranteed loans for your projects Um, the bright line. I think was received a what they call a rift loan To build their Lauderdale to orlando piece they rejected at the end they went with private financing But that was a loan that was offered to them for that project for bright line So, uh, there are there other programs. We'll have to figure out. Okay Where is that segment going to be? How much is it going to cost? Certainly, um, then where would be, you know, a lot of a lot of questions that's to be answered Where would be the the maintenance facility? Could we buddy up with dot for instance and save some money if we're only going to have a few extra trains? But I think there's a lot of questions that have to be answered and probably require a few months to study to figure out If the segmentation approach is is Is what the the elected leaders want to do? How do we accomplish that? Thank you. I'll close with this. Um Elected bodies can be very dysfunctioning at times And I'm I'm saying that as part of one Uh and and colleagues. I'm not saying we're dysfunctional. I'm saying we're dynamic But trying to get the elected bodies around the triangle to get on the same page is, um You know, it's it's it's kind of like, you know, a camel with a horse designed by a committee Right. This is not going to work out too well I hope that it would be appropriate to ask you all as the facilitators of You know, what we are in need of regional transit To look at all of the circumstances, you know, look at the fact that there's a lot of apprehension here in Durham because of You know the failed project And and in delight rail, you know, and Also, you know, wake county's ready, but wake county has a very different looking tax based on what you do They do, you know, and they are much more capable economically than we are Um Johnston county have a lot of people working in downtown Durham And living in johnston county, you know, they're going to be according to the ridership analysis They're going to be the the greatest benefactors Of the project as is Um, at least what i'm told uh and and correct me if i'm wrong. Um, oh, you're correct They're going to have you're looking at almost 4 000 boardings a day Out there, but whether you reach clayton or you build at the garner I think folks drive from johnston county to garner to jump on the train Yeah, so I i'm saying all of this to say as Go triangle You know, we are going to need a leader in this And you guys that's your role your role is to coordinate all of these crazy dysfunctional bodies around the triangle Uh relying on us to get it together. It's not going to happen And I think that we're uh, we're going to you know until we put these safeguards in place You know until we put the sensors in place that are going to help us identify when we're headed down a red flag road um We may be on another road to disaster, you know, and I hope that that's that's not going to happen So I say that to say Get us together You know like you you all are in the apex of this and you're seeing what county's perspective durham county's perspective You know and you see the different governing bodies and our taxpayers are just saying look get me a bus to ride and get me a train to ride And higher frequency at an affordable rate. So take all of those factors and just bring us a proposal on what's next whether it's If it was light rail again, it would be light rail again if it's commuter rail it is what it is And if commuter rail doesn't work out, then what? You know give us those options Yeah, I would say that commuter rail really is your best bet. You know coming from the outside coming afterward um, uh, you know for me, uh, my experience the light rail Is a good mode of transportation, but it's also a development project, right? A lot of development happens around Light rail commuter rail is is more of a true transportation facility and they could it will generate some economic development But that's your real that's your regional your true regional Facility is having that commuter rail and using that north carolina rail or corridor, which has been around forever Since the 1850s certainly is Something that could be maximized. It's there. It doesn't require other people's property for the most part You know, I think we can fit in there with a large number of trains. We've done the modeling study I think you know That's where you want to focus the effort Because even even if it's even if a segment is built You're always going to be able to expand that segment and you're that corridor serves eight out of the 10 major activity centers for employers in the region No other corridor does that so that ncr corridor is I think vitally important and and its utility for moving people Can be multiplied many times. Thank you so much mayor. Thanks for the time We need to have something soon. We have a lot of jobs coming maybe about 30,000 or so the next five years We're very fortunate. We we need to take advantage of leverage this opportunity. So look forward to hearing. Thank you What's next? Thank you. Thank you We appreciate you all being here today and We'll see you real soon. Appreciate it. See you next week All right We now turn to our final presentation for this afternoon Item number 36 to excel pilot update Which will be given by miss amber wade Good afternoon. Mayor o'neill mayor pro tem middleton and city council members I am amber wade assistant to mayor o'neill and I am pleased to be with you today to share an update on excel Durham's guaranteed income pilot launched in partnership with mayors for a guaranteed income and the center for guaranteed income research at the university of pennsylvania You saw serita hill was here earlier from step up Durham She had to leave for some childcare. Um, so hopefully you will be able to meet her at another date So mayors shall join mayors for a guaranteed income in the fall of 2020 and since being sworn in Mayor o'neill has continued this partnership In december of 2020 durham was awarded a $500,000 grant to design a local pilot Through an rfp process in august of 2021 step up durham was chosen as the nonprofit administrator The last year has been spent designing this pilot for individuals who are returning home from incarceration And the last six months have included fundraising and implementation All dollars raised to support the participants monthly payments are private dollars And the city is providing funds for step up durham again to administer the pilot For today's presentation. I will give an overview of the recruitment and onboarding process Review some of the challenges that we have overcome And our final pilot numbers So this first slide Is a reminder of durham's pilot goals Our original goal was to have 115 individuals who would be receiving the $500 monthly deposit And also have a comparison group of 138 individuals who would also be chosen So to start the recruitment step up durham opened a pre-screen form on their website This form was used to build a list of individuals who would be the first to receive the application once it launched In-person assistance by step up six cell coordinator was offered to anyone who needed additional support or access to a computer This form asked for eligibility questions. Do you reside in durham? Are you 18 or older? Do you have income below 60 a.m? I and an income income table was provided for individuals to to see And were you released from incarceration after november 1st 2016? Um over 500 individuals responded to this initial pre-screen You may remember that in january of this year step up durham received an anonymous donation of a hundred thousand dollars To allow us to increase the number of individuals that were that would participate in this pilot So on january 5th of this year the pilot application launched and again in-person assistance was offered to anyone who needed Additional support or access to a computer The four eligibility questions were asked again along with additional demographic questions and baseline questions related to the research domains Once this application closed on january 23rd and after excluding duplicates 288 individuals remained So the 288 individuals were categorized into the following groups and this randomization was completed by the center For guaranteed income research. So the four groups were stipend participants the comparison group Alternates and those who were not selected For the onboarding phase we used multiple outreach strategies to contact the 129 participants After notification there was a three-step high touch process that included benefits counseling for all those who were chosen As well as a time to sign the various consent forms There were a number of challenges that we encountered during this notification an onboarding phase Some of the challenges are documented here 19 people we were unable to connect with by email or phone Seven people had returned to incarceration between the time that they were selected and the time of notification Uh 20 people did not meet residency and incarceration eligibility requirements and then two declined due to the potential impact on their existing benefits This slide has our final pilot numbers Because we did not make our original goal We were able to take that additional funding and increase the monthly payment to 600 a month So our final numbers we have 109 people in that stipend recipient group and then we were able to identify 138 for the comparison group We did talk to the center for guaranteed income research about Sort of moving people from the comparison group into the stipend group to increase our number But we were Not allowed to do so So finally i'll just share kind of our path forward Durham is participating in a seven week online learning collaborative with mayors for guaranteeing income and results for america Focused on best practices for our local storytelling and narrative building efforts Each pilot at the end of the sprint is going to be eligible for $10,000 to support a future storytelling project So if we are selected for that step up Durham will be kind of leading what that future project would be for us The pilot will continue until march 2023 with all of the deposits occurring on the 15th of each month You all will continue to see Individuals who have agreed to tell their Stories and share the impact of this income on television and through media and other outlets We do expect that our final results from the pilot will come in the spring or summer of 2023 Um, I appreciate your time and i'm here to answer any questions that you may have Thank you miss way some efficient You all have any questions for Madam mayor Sir, thank you madame erin. Good afternoon amber. I'm so sorry serita couldn't stick around to be with us So wish you could meet us, but glad we'll have opportunity for her to come for us again sometime in the future Just not a question. Just this is really exciting Uh work My thanks to council member freelon Who's no longer with us? He's still alive. He's just no longer on the uh the council and and uh mere shul For for allowing us to get this off the ground. This is one of those things that actually I think could be Called root cause or going directly to preventative kind of things. It's amazing the number of initiatives Proposed dealing with poor people that don't involve giving poor people money Uh, you know poverty by definition is the lack of resources lack of money and we know that this particular population the mayor O'Neill has has Tutored us and and and really hammered this home on a number of occasions the particular Challenges that this population faces when they come out We all got stuff going on which is reason why we want to make this universal at some point for all residents of the country Um, regardless of you know age race immigration status or citizenship status because um economically secure people make better neighbors And I you know, it's just such a source of pride for us as a city to be one of the uh Cities around the country participating in this cohort. I said some time ago that I hope That we'll have conversations about ways we can perhaps continue it beyond this pilot. So Um, just putting that out there that I may be coming back to you guys for more Um bandwidth to continue this but just You know, you really have just um been such a superstar in this work and quarterbacked it for us and and just um anytime I get an opportunity to say thanks to you and The team that worked on this publicly. I want to do that step up derm has been an amazing partner In this and I've heard informally because I'm not supposed to talk to them But I've heard informally uh that it's making a difference in people's lives in very tangible ways and to the naysayers and those folk Who sent uh nasty racist emails and all kinds of stuff surprise surprise They're not spending the money on weed and grape soda and crab legs They're paying rent They're they're they're buying uh clothes for their kids. Uh, they're paying off bills Because that's what folk do when they have money They take care of themselves and they take care of their families um So thank you and thank you council for uh allowing this to go forward in this city And um, I'm looking forward to hearing those great uh stories and and sharing uh from the Participants. Thank you so much. Thank you madam mayor Thank you, mayor pro tem. Just excellent excellent excellent all the way around. Thank you for staying late tonight. Um we We'll see you tomorrow month Thank you all Hope you feel better too All right, we now turn our attention to our boards and commissions the task force nominations in the hands of our clerk Good evening everybody. Um council has nominated the following residents to the board's committees and commissions For the Durham city county appearance commission. There are two appointments These are nominations again michael m bell and quinton holloway Durham convention center authority appointment pashara black Durham sports commission appointment umar muhammad The housing appeals board regular member lawyer is indra nil gauche Housing appeals board alternate member neighborhood association elizabeth wiener Human relations commission appointment for six vacancies. Um, the category of african-american person was not settled there's no consensus on it. We have a um A four-way tie or not tie but There are nominations for natoschia l. Adams tammy wood jamad m lane and clayton charles disusa Would you like the breakdown? Go for it, right? Okay jamad m lane. There are three um nominations for him and that's um mayor o'neill councilmember freeman and councilmember holsey hyman There are two nominations for tammy hood That is um councilmember johnson and councilmember caballero And then one each for clayton charles disusa And natoschia l. Adams Mr. Disusa is councilmember williams and natoschia adams is mayor pro tem middleton Mayor o'neill have a clarifying question. I thought that that was a reapplication And that the applicant who reapplied had a 75 percent attendance and that would be Is that correct? Okay, it is as is my standard practice We get the application if it's a reapplication and the person has been meeting attendance and an active member of the Board or commission. I just reappoint Okay, does anyone want to shift their vote? Yes, ma'am. I'm willing to change my vote to the reappoint to the reappointment Is there anyone else because we need to I would as well Okay, all right. Thank you For the position on the human relations commission for caucasian non-hispanic person thomas w cadwaller Um christine codie and amalia jackson were nominated for hispanic person maria el solis guzman Other person stacey white knight Mayor's appointee anita r daniels kenney For the mayor's council for women. Lydia mitchell has been nominated The mayor's hispanic latino committee appointment is ma'am clerk. I'm sorry. Could you speak up just a little more, please? On the mayor's council for women. Lydia mitchell has been nominated The mayor's hispanic latino committee appointment goes to joshua top and the participatory budgeting steering committee appointments. There were six nominations michael m bell rosa i capari And gc Jimmerson donna lk don a page and jada richardson And then finally for the participatory budgeting youth seat The youth I think I skipped I'm sorry. I skipped the participatory budgeting steering committee appointments michael m bell rosa capari angela jimerson Donna k don page jada richardson and then the youth seat jana jona pernell And finally the racial equity commission appointment for at-large resident is kedrick tea laury So everything has been um reached by consensus That's the end of the report Madam mayor quick question Um, madam clerk has michael bell been nominated for two boards I believe he was applied to the appearance commission and another one that you mentioned And that's not allowed, right? Right. You can only be on one board. He's been nominated for the city county appearance commission as well as the participatory budgeting steering committee So how do you recommend we resolve that issue? Do we pick one or do we ask him which one he'd prefer? We can ask him which one he prefers and then we can re-advertise. Okay, that would be great. Okay. All right We will move to other matters, which I think we have two The first is that the proposed date from for staff for our rescheduled work session will be july 26 July 26 If you give me a thumbs up that they may be okay Madam mayor on the I may need to be an hour late, but I could come at two I'm sorry. Say that again. I may need to come at at 2 p.m. Instead of at 1 p.m On the 26th, but I could I might be able to make it work Is that fine two o'clock I will find for everybody Two o'clock on july 26 to 2 p.m.  Well, I'll wait for you. We want to make sure Two o'clock july 26 two o'clock is the set date All right, now we turn to councilwoman Freedman's of the Matter that she wanted to bring back to our attention Thank you madame. I just wanted to just get a consensus of Or to motion that we do allow for our Staff to actually reopen The wheels fun park skating rink Yes, sir. Madam. I'm mr. Book protein. Thank you madame. I um I am I actually resonate with the the animating Um spirit of council member freeman's we actually had a discussion earlier today Um in which I challenged the council that if that was within our purview to do that if we wanted to but I also said that I think it's important that staff has an opportunity to do their due diligence um, and we can certainly direct staff to Uh bring us back a report bring us back Potential vendors what that could possibly look like the indemnity issues Financial impacts, but I think it's just far too premature at this point to just You know say we're going to open wheels. I just don't think that would be a responsible message to send today It we may very well, but I think the first appropriate step would be just to direct staff as we always do With major decisions to do some due diligence Um and do some you know some research and and bring us a you know well informed View of what that would look like I certainly would support that but I I think it's way too early um to to Suggest we're going to go into the skating business as a city at this point We might but I I you know, I think the staff should have some opportunity to look at this And that that was the thrust of my comments earlier and I'm still the thrust of my comments now I just don't know what that I couldn't responsibly vote for that today Thank you madame. Thank you. Mr. Frotel councilwoman johnson Thank you madame. Um the our parks and rec staff is in the middle of a pretty extensive engagement process about the use of the wheels property as well as the Park across the street, and I think that it would be reasonable to allow that engagement process to To continue and to conclude before we before we make any Any formal decisions as a city and to for the staff to continue um Talk to the community and that's you know because the I I fully expect that a strong majority of people in this community will be in favor of renovating wheels and and keeping it in use as a skating rink either You know either the city runs it or we bring in a contractor or something but you know I think the commitment to equitable engagement requires that we follow through and also that the Loudest people don't always represent the majority. We've heard from a lot of people about wheels And I and I do in this case believe that they recommend the majority, but I represent The majority, but I think in principle it's important for our commitments to engagement that we actually follow through with the engagement and allow the resident feedback to inform the The path forward that we take rather than Rather than making a decision based on The folks who have been able to come to council only I think that we should we should wait until We have a full picture of what the community wants before we make a decision. Thank you Thank you councilwoman johnson turn it back to councilwoman freeman. Thank you. I was just trying to move us along And just understanding I want to make sure that I do clarify that the current engagement process does not include the rink And it hasn't I saw if it does it may have started recently But I know that there had to be an online campaign to ask people to write in the rink It was not inclusive of the rink. And so if we're going to restart the engagement process, that's different But the current engagement process does not allow for the rink to be incorporated into the I'm turned to our city manager So, um, I would I'm going to attempt to to respond to the engagement And I know that the engagement um, the engagement is ongoing and From where I said there has not been any decision made about The assets community assets that are going to be ultimately a part Of the redeveloped project I know that deputy city manager johnson was at one of the engagement activities A couple of weeks ago, and I don't I know we spoke about it. I don't know if you have that specificity I know keep Chadwell is is in another meeting, but if you wouldn't mind me putting you on the spot Good afternoon bertha johnson deputy city manager I wasn't an event uh as at an event about two weeks ago And there was no specificity around what people could propose They had lots of pictures of different, you know, uh, recreation activities And there was an opportunity to write in other activities or other Components or amenities you wanted to see At the site and so there it was not explicitly that you could not there could not be a rink there was even Put put golf as an as some folks put that as an option So it was open ended that's my point that people could actually Provide any kind of feedback they want to provide In the course of the engagement process I would just say that I think that the skate park The pool and a couple of other put put and a couple of others are specifically stated And so those are the items that are being selected And the rink which is which is what a couple of folks raised as an issue Is not an option so that there has had to been a coordinated effort in the community to actually Push people to actually indicate the rink which is not the case for the water park or the slides or all the other Actual photos that are listed there or with what have you so it's just not as um Plain as you know just going through the engagement process. That's all i'm saying So I just wanted to make sure that we gave the our staff the authority that they needed to actually open the rink And so whether we vote for it today or not That's up to the council But I do think that I put forward a motion if someone would like to second that would be great point of order Councilman with this is a work session We haven't suspended the rules and our honor hasn't called for Emotions is a discussion and we're in the work session. We don't vote during work sessions without suspending rules That was the request I made at the beginning of the meeting Was to vote the rules was to actually vote. We don't vote in work sessions Okay, I wait wait wait for one second, please I see a hand raised by Councilwoman comby error and then we have a motion that's been seconded on the floor But we also have I believe a question. Yeah, I just had some clarifying questions I want the engagement to continue if we need to be more clear that the The engagement needs to include the amenity of the skate rink, which is what I've heard consistently I haven't heard things around the like ball pit or the go-karts mean the wheels has a ton of stuff on it If we need to be clear in our engagement, I am you know, I mean good lord I think everyone is doing the skater than that rink. I don't want to know how many birthday parties there So I get the the the love for it If we need to be clear if we can direct staff around that that that is an option on the table I think that that's the positive way forward. I do not feel comfortable directing staff right now in the middle of a very You know month-long engagement process telling, you know Making a decision right now that we're going to open wheels. I don't I don't even want to think about the liability around that so My my ask of my colleagues is to maybe direct staff to if Parks and rec could just be clear that yes the scape rink is an amenity that that the city is considering keeping and moving from there Thank you All right. I'm just going to look to my attorney for a point of order now that was the Question that was raised, but we still have Um a motion that has been seconded on the floor. I would Ask if it is appropriate if I offer a friendly amendment to the motion Or if that's appropriate at this point, we always we already had a um from um mayor pro tem that um There has been some discussion about whether in fact that is an appropriate motion. So I look to you To clarify so the council does not by its own procedural rules does not take votes at work sessions unless it chooses Oh, I'm sorry The council by its own procedural rules does not typically take a vote on an action item At a work session unless it first suspends the rules to vote on that item Similarly to what you all did with agenda item 13 earlier today I have not heard anyone propose that you also spend the rules to take action With respect to the wheel skate park So you would want to entertain That sort of conversation first Before actually taking an action to give a directive to the administration. All right I can make that motion if you'd like A motion to suspend the rules to take action on the wheels skate park I second if it's appropriate All right That has been motioned by a councilwoman freeman that we take and seconded by councilwoman Hyman that we take uh that we suspend the rules to take action On the wheels skate park all those in favor Which is signed by raising your left hand All those that is for all those opposed have the same Right that motion passes for three with councilwoman Hyman councilman williams the mayor and councilwoman freeman voting in favor Of suspending the rules a motion that we We allow for staff to go back and assess and move forward with opening the wheels skate park Or also the authority for the staff to open wheels skate park. I second All right, it has been Question. What's the motion? A motion to authorize staff To open wheels skate park Do they lack that authorization? I don't think this motion means anything may I offer a friendly amendment to your motion Yes, and that friendly amendment would be that we authorize staff to make inquiries about what it will take to Operate the the the skating rink And come back to us with a Report be it if they operate or choose an outside vendor and we allow them the time to Tell come back with a report on that Is that an acceptable Be clear we're asking for an assessment not right because it's going to have some budgetary Cost to it right manager. We're just asking them to open the door pretty much to see What it will entail to Open that rate even as the city would operate it Or not just to make inquiry and come back with a preliminary report and then we ought to be able to move from from there We need a motion Huh, all right. I'll go after do we need a motion for? No, I offer the I offer the friendly amendment and my friendly amendment is that we make inquiry Direct the staff to make inquiry as it's to what that would look like to Open that ring I just I don't think we need to vote on that I think we I think we could just ask The manager to do that and also I think that's already part of the plan we're talking about in the interim between from From what I understand There is going to be a Possibly a four-year interim period between the planning and the actual final plans of the entire site So we are trying to see if there's a way doing that interim at some point in time if we could possibly open the ring Since you have such a large gap of time. I know there's going to be community engagement But what do we do in that in that interim period? Is there something we can do? But just for them to make inquiry Is there a possibility of us opening the skating rink sooner than the master plan? Madam manager, could you give us some guidance? Whenever I'm So I um, we certainly can that's what we do That's what the administrators do when we are given direction to go and evaluate something and bring you back Information and options That is what we would do. The only thing I would add here Is the expectations for staff as to when that you know when when we should be involved in that is that You know immediately and as soon as possible or some other time frame because we have to you know, we have to We we want to meet your expectations and it would be good for us to know what you know, what that is even for this evaluate evaluated period and I I really want to leave that date certain Um open for you all to talk with your staff since we have so many moving parts at this point Y'all are in the middle budget. I'm really conscious about adding something else to people who are already It under other deadlines. So I really Would like to ask you all to bring us a date back Um when we come back for our our next meeting Um and have a have a proposed date is what would be my suggestion rather than us give you a date today let us Give you all the opportunity to think about what that entails Councilwoman Freeman, and I'm just trying to give you the latitude. I was trying to give you the latitude to kind of if it is a huge, you know, like Jump out there. That's different than if it's just as simple as you know Of rfp and what have you in 30 days or whatever? So what whether it's one or the other I think the dates or however long would be different But that's based on the findings of our staff looking into it I'm just trying to be cognizant of The fact that you know, this isn't this is brand new territory Um, and they are already in the midst of Lots of other things So if we could give them time to kind of figure out what that layer of the land is And come back with a proposed date as to they know what the question is now Can we open that ring? It's sometimes sooner than the master plan May allow there's going to be a gap and what that looks like and if they can Have time to figure out what that date If what date is reasonable for them to be able to answer that question I would prefer that they have time to think about it rather than we set a date today For them to come back And because they're really efficient about that stuff though Just don't want to ask them to do that today Council may approach him. Thank you madam mayor, and I appreciate your um your clarity and leadership on this I think everything that you asked Is well within your purview to just ask as a council and we've done so I would I would for the sake of it the institutional integrity I would just suggest that the motion Be allowed to die. I think it would we For us to put the imprimata of the city through a fully binding legal vote just to ask the staff to research something Is a threshold we just simply do not need to cross Um, I defer to you. I'm good with that. Well, that's my yeah I think all of us are good with it Staff asked for us to vote for them to give them authority. I didn't hear that. I'm sorry. Do you need to vote? We're gonna ask do you need to vote? We do not all right. Thank you. We have we have changed that into an ask and at this point We are now going to settle our agenda Yes, we are for our June 22nd city council meeting. We have for consent items one through 12 item 14 item 16 item 19 through 35 and item 44 For gba, we have items 15 and 17 and for gba public hearings items 38 through 42 I would entertain the motion to settle our agenda second It has been moved by councilwoman Freeman seconded by councilman Williams We would raise your left hand for those who are in agreement those who Would like to say no have the same right. I believe that passes unanimously with the six that we have remaining Are there any other items to come before the council? Henry none. We are Adjourning this meeting and this day that has been full of work for our citizens at 16 We'll see the strong Have a good evening everybody