Before we get started we ask our CD clerk to read quote for the week Thank you to exercise good character daily is to be fit for life Thank you very much and once again the public has asked me to remind the alderman to put their mic I'm on the collar here so they can hear you. Thank you Call the 14th regular meeting of the Common Council to order please call the roll boran Excuse Hanna Kittleson Clayunas Myer Montemayor Rinflaich Ryan Surrock Vanderwheel for hassled and wongamon 15 present quorum is present this time. It has all of them Ryan to lead us in the pledge I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands One nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank you alderman Ryan next item on the agenda is approval of the minutes president Hanna Motion in second to approve minutes under discussion There is none all in favor say aye Any opposed Motion carries minutes stand approved resignations turning McLean like your honor There's a letter to the mayor from maryan health Advising that she's resigning her position on the wellness committee make a motion to accept and file President Hanna. Thank you, mr. Mayor. I'd make a motion to accept and file second motion and second under discussion Alderman kittleson. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. I just want to say Publicly thank you to maryan health. She's just been so wonderful on the wellness committee. She's always been there Just a great person to have on that committee and i'm going to really be sorry to to see her leave So thank you. Thank her for I thank her for a second. I sent her a letter echoing your your praise. Thank you very much Thank you anything else There is none all in favor say aye any opposed Motion carries mayors appointments attorney mclean I hereby submit the following appointment for your confirmation alder person Edward sir to be considered for appointment to the sustainable shabuagan task force to fill the unexpired term of alder person vicki mayer whose term expires for 2009 signed by the mayor that lies over and These were submitted at the last council meeting hereby submit the following appointment for your confirmation Mike Warnches to be considered for appointment to the board of electrical examiners to fill the unexpired position of robert schrader Whose term expires for 30 2010 the motion to confirm Thank you, mr. Mayor. I'd like a motion to confirm second motion second to confirm Any discussion All in favor say aye. Aye any opposed Motion carries appointments confirmed Sherpao vang to be considered for appointment to the commission on aging to fill the unexpired term of janet carter Whose term expires for 30 2010? I need a motion to confirm also I would make the motion to confirm second motion second to confirm under discussion There is not all in favor say aye. Aye any opposed Motion carries appointment is confirmed And jody brooks to be considered for appointment to the board of parks and forestry As the community recreation department representative to fill the unexpired term of herald biebel whose term expires for 3009 signed by the mayor Need a motion to confirm also Make the motion to confirm jody brooks Motion and second under discussion There is not all in favor say aye. Aye any opposed Motion carries appointment is confirmed Thank you attorney McLean Next item on the agenda is a public forum. Madam city clerk. Thank you first on the list is marge sagali if you could step forward, please And I need your home address, please it's 27 32 be like envoy north savannah circle If you want to pull the mic just close to you so that we can hear And you will have five minutes. Thank you, madam clerk. Good evening. Mr. Mayor madam clerk city attorney McLean and council I had planned on speaking at public forum at a later date But after listening to public forum on october 6th, I can find no better time to speak than now It seems like the issue of our fire department paramedics is still not Is still out there and mostly it concerns money I truly appreciate the people who are the watchdogs when it comes to the monies the city spends I too am a taxpayer and citizen of sheboygan Even though we pay rent when rent goes when taxes go up so does our rent But there is no amount of money that can replace a human life I realize human emotions are not to play a role in discussion in decisions concerning money spent by departments But when speaking of the fire department paramedics their job does concern the human aspect On august 25th 2008, I sent my husband off to work at universal ethnographers with a hug a kiss. I love you nbc Never knowing a few hours later. He would suffer what is what is known as sudden cardiac death For all clinical purposes. He was dead The quick actions of dave gobeck a volunteer firefighter an employee of universal started cpr While another employee called 9-1-1 They tell me the response time of the fire department and paramedics was extraordinary It is also my understanding the paramedics brought my husband back several times Their expertise and professionalism was also extraordinary. He was taken to the To the closest hospital, which was st. Nicholas hospital where their fine emergency department Staff continued their efforts in saving my husband's life From there. He was taken to a hospital. I never even knew existed and that is Columbia st. Mary's in osaki county where the doctors who treated my husband Commented on the initial response and quality of care administered by the paramedics to my husband Was what has allowed me has allowed for me to have him today As I stated before there is no amount of money in this world that can replace a human life So please instead of criticizing our fire department paramedics Let them do their job the best of their abilities because the next life they save Could be that of your own or a loved one We also never know until something like this happens to us What fine facilities we have in the city like coolers cardiology and the hospitals we have And also in closing like to bring up another matter I would like to say a big thank you and a job well done to our police chief David Kirk And his fellow officers who will be retiring if you the council approve the retirement package They all have served this community well and as a past all the person citizen and taxpayer I thank you all for the job you have done What I like for you what what I like for you to retire the answer is no Do you understand why you're retiring the answer is yes Thank you very much. Thank you Next on the list is renais sushi And can I have your home address, please? 303 st. Clair avenue in sheboygan And you will have five minutes Thank you, mr. Mayor and alderman for allowing me to speak tonight When I left my aldermanic post a year and a half ago I left a few items behind that needed to be addressed at a later date The day has come to set the record straight on one of those items I will start giving you a historical perspective during the public forum and address specific safety concerns during one of the hearings scheduled later in your meeting Tonight you will be asked to change the zoning on a parcel of land near the intersection of north avenue and kellywood drive As you may recall three years ago the council voted to close a section of north 21st street between north avenue and kellywood drive This little street had emini bank on the west side of the road and a manufacturing company on the east side The primary reason the council was told by the police department the street had to be closed was due to a high number of accidents Two police officers presented an accident analysis to the public protection and safety committee and the common council They vehemently insisted this road had to be closed on one end to cut down on the number of vehicles I were cutting across four lanes of traffic each time someone used this little shortcut At that point in time. I was chairman of public protection and safety I did my own independent analysis of the situation based on information I collected both from the police department and the city planning department It appeared to me. We were being asked to close the street strictly for the sake of development not safety Tonight you will have to decide if the actions of the common council three years ago were right or wrong If that road was closed due to serious safety concerns Then the police should be jumping up and down to get your attention and inform you how dangerous It will be to have citizens pulling in and out of the parking lot of the strip mall, which is going to be built on this site To help you understand the complete picture of what I saw three years ago I would like to share with you a series of coincidences that made me feel uncomfortable in supporting the road closing Now remember I looked at both the police information and the planning and development In july of 2001 the manufacturing company on the east side of 21st street took out a 600 000 loan from the city One of the parameters of the loan was that he agreed to relocate his manufacturing company to the business park by the end of 2004 In september 2004 due to a financial hardship the owner of the manufacturing company Was granted an extension by the council to relocate His business by the end of 2009 In may of 2005 police orders were issued to temporarily put up barricades at the intersection in north 21st street in kellywood drive Preventing traffic from traveling through the streets adjacent to this manufacturing property One month later a developer met with the mayor city attorney and director of city planning During that meeting the developer mentioned the possibility of building a strip mall on the property where m&i bank currently are used to sit In november 2005 without my consent a police officer altered my public protection and safety agenda by adding a proposal to permanently close north 21st street Public protection safety did take the issue up on december 13th And the police department presented an inaccurate and misleading accident analysis to justify closing the street They did not compare equal time frames as to the number of accidents that occurred when the road was open versus when it was closed And their oral reports Claimed that no accidents occurred when the road was closed I believe the oral reports were inaccurate because I have several accident reports in my possession that occurred when the road was closed So it is clear to me that the oral report was untruthful In any event the majority of the public protection and safety committee voted to close the intersection At 21st street in calument drive on december 13th 2005 Three days later on december 16th the public protection Three days after the public protection and safety committee voted to close the intersection Chief kerks submitted a $5,000 anonymous donation for taser guns to the finance department The anonymous donor turned out to be the owner of the manufacturing plant that was adjacent to the street that was just closed three days earlier Let me clarify a few things one thing. I want to make perfectly clear I do not believe that the owner of this manufacturing company ever called chief kirk and said I will give you $5,000 if you close that road That never happened It's a combination of all of these coincidences that made me feel uncomfortable for closing the road for the sake of safety I do believe that it was closed for the sake of development and I really want to emphasize That you need to look at the question of a accident analysis Because that's what was used to convince the alderman at that point in time to close the street If the street was closed truly because of safety Then you're going to have a problem tonight making your decision on whether you should change the zoning to allow this development to continue At this point, I'd like to ask each of the alderman To ask yourself a few questions. Excuse me. Renee.  Would you like your additional one minute? Yes, please Go ahead What would you do if you knew a city employee was providing inaccurate information during a committee meeting? Put yourself in my shoes. What would you do if a city employee said no accidents existed during a seven month time frame? Yet you have in your possession several accidents that did occur With the alderman we have today. I don't think any city employee is brave enough to pull some of the stunts that were going on three To five years ago Unfortunately three years ago. Many aldermen still accepted everything city employees said as the gospel truth Three years ago some alderman went as far as trying to censure me For pointing out that some city employees were being untruthful and this road was being closed for the sake of development Your actions tonight are going to prove whether I was right or wrong If you deny the developer's zoning request to proceed with the strip mall Due to safety concerns with people going in and out of the parking lot Then I was wrong and there must be serious concerns in that area about safety However, if you change the zoning and allow the developer to proceed that proves I was right and aren't That there aren't enough sufficient safety concerns and I should be exonerated from all the allegations of wrong doings. Thank you. Thank you Next on the list is joanne scribner And joanne, can you give me your home address, please three Seneca trail? Okay, and do you want to pull the mic just closer to you a little bit and you will have five minutes Mayor prayers should we in common counsel? First of all, I'd like to preface my comments by saying I'm not speaking as someone that's holier than now With that kind of attitude because I know just exactly how imperfect I I am On friday october 3rd My husband and I went to the Stephanie wild center on north a street to hear the bob and tom show Canadian mist comedy stars tour at the 7 30 p.m. Show This show was sponsored by the buzz radio station with their office being on washington avenue along with whbl the point and b 93 I am so ashamed of myself for allowing myself to actually Laugh have laughed out loud At some of the filthy jokes that came out of those comedian's mouths I was apologizing to god all night for even having been there and having bought tickets to see that show To see that filth I will no longer listen to the bob and tom Comedy show on the buzz Nor will I ever listen to the buzz radio station ever again The so-called music on the buzz is downright dark and depressing Personally, I would like to see the buzz radio station removed from the airwaves And the bob and tom show completely out of existence I have talked to people at the while. I have not talked to the buzz radio station yet To register my complaint and my concern and my disgust for the promotion of filth in shabuagan Here's a verse from the bible that could pretty well sum up how we should live Ephesians 4 29 and 30 do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth But only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs So that it may benefit those who listen And do not grieve the holy spirit of god with whom he was sealed for the day of redemption another verse Romans 1 18 through 21 The wrath of god is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth By their wickedness since what may be known about god is plain to them because god has made it plain to them For since the creation of the world god's invisible qualities his eternal power and divine nature have been clearly seen Being understood from what has been made so that men are without excuse For although they knew god they neither glorified him as god nor gave thanks to him But their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened One more verse first chrithians 10 31. So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do do it all for the glory of god What does all of this have to do with the shabuagin common council? plenty In all of your decisions as mayor and alderman Is your primary goal to glorify god To give honor to god to do what jesus would do w w jd. What would jesus do? If you can answer yes to these questions, then the city of shabuagan is in good hands some examples The newest state of the of the art police station on north 23rd street a good thing Now i know that this is still probably a controversial issue probably something to still be debated, but Overall a good thing the shabuagin police force neighbors against drugs mothers against drunk driving And shabuagin county crime stoppers and community activities like the 2008 national night out 25th anniversary walk against crime From fawn park to fawn park held in august And the saturday october 4th shabuagin county crime stoppers event at shabuagin falls municipal building good things The shared and park remaining a park green grass and trees and swings basketball hoops and climbing wall and basketball and lots of kids of all ages hanging out in the park plus community picnics Promoted in the park by friends of shabuagin parks a good thing And i know that this is still probably controversial and a debated thing too Orange cross ambulance and the fire department ambulance in shabuagin a choice a good thing And i know this is also a little controversial On a personal note the shabuagin police and the shabuagin fire department ambulance were jawning on the spot They were there in it seemed like in seconds on easter sunday morning march 23rd 2008 After my mother called me at 422 in the morning To tell me that she was having difficulty breathing Unbeknown to me she had suffered a heart attack at home And she died that afternoon at shabuagin memorial medical center But for her it was her homecoming To see jesus so all is well with her But i owe always a huge amount of gratitude for the shabuagin police and fire departments For being there that day and i say thank you from the bottom of my heart Excuse me joanne you're five minutes up. Would you like an additional minute? Yes, please go ahead? On another subject some years ago the sex respect curriculum was taken out of the shabuagin public high schools Which i thought was a very bad decision This curriculum promoted abstinence only the only way to go There is no such thing as safe sex. The safe sex statement is a myth Do you really think that unwed teen mothers as well as unwed mothers of any age are a good thing for the moral fabric of shabuagin wisconsin Or the u.s. Say in the world or the men that act irresponsibly the answer is no The answer is yes to abstinence only too bad sex respect curriculum was removed from shabuagin area school district What about sex before marriage what about living with a member of the opposite sex before marriage What about recreational sex or a one night stand before marriage? What about adult three? Where does the shabuagin common council the shabuagin police force the shabuagin area school district Planned here into it and the social agencies of the city of shabuagin and shabuagin county stand on these issues Our adult Thank you. Thank you for to be continued. Thank you very much. Thank you Next on our list is matt walsh And that can i have an address? 828 center avenue sweet 101 shabuagin And you will have five minutes sir. Thank you Um, good evening. Mr. Mayor council members ladies and gentlemen Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak tonight I'm speaking to you as president of the shabuagin professional police association Let me get right to the point The sppa has decided to make a statement tonight about the reorganization and early buyout package Pardon me not early retirement package. I misspoke that is being proposed We are very happy for those individuals who are being offered incentives for early retirement. We are happy as well To be able to help save the money city some money. I'm terrible tonight Our fear is that assurances that the assurances that have been made will be delayed or worse denied due to budget concerns The assurances that i am speaking of are replacing the upper management officers with patrol officers investigators and detectives Those street cops if you will are needed now more than ever and in fact We're needed badly the past several years The police department is currently six officers below the required staffing levels for a city this size This early retirement proposal will put the police department in a situation of being 13 positions down Many of these retirements come from the very top of our leadership Couple that loss of experience over 230 years With a shortage of officers if the positions aren't filled the results would be disastrous The police department is very young and is about to become much younger This lack of experience combined with the loss of leadership will result in grave concerns for safety I speak not only of officer safety, but of public safety I cannot stress enough how important public safety is The safety of families and of children in sheboygan is the cities the police departments and the sppa's number one concern With the recent downturn in the economy experts are predicting a rise in crime This is already being seen locally In comparing crimes from this year to 2007 so far sexual assaults are up nearly nine nine percent Aggravated assaults are up 16 percent Forgeries are up 12 percent and sex offenses in general are up 22 percent The sppa is concerned with saving money, but at what overall cost and risk Liability for the city due to new less experienced officers Operating with less supervision is of great concern The assurances of street cop and detective positions being filled as a part of the early retirement incentive aren't extremely important This must be taken care of immediately The promotional and hiring processes should begin now This should not be put off until 2009 Those positions need to be filled and the new hires need to be ready to go on january 1 In summary the sppa requests that the retirements are followed up quickly with the hiring of more officers Putting them on street investigating and preventing crime and doing what we do best Keeping the citizens of the city of sheboygan safe Thank you Thank you And last on the list is henry capetillo Henry could you give me your home address, please? Yes, that's 16 19 north 38 street. That's in the town of sheboygan And i'm here speaking on behalf of home ink And you will have five minutes. Thank you I'm glad to follow the representative from the sheboygan police department because that's the issue that i'd like to speak about today um, I also have concerns the concern is also Exactly what the association is saying that in the past The council has said well, we're going to hire the police replace the patrol officers and That just drags on and drags on and as of today, yes You are not at full staffing and it has been for quite a while that we have had shortage on the police department with patrol officers I can remember about a year and a half ago two years ago I came here religiously to speak on the budget of the police department the hiring of patrol officers Keeping in mind of what is going on within the city And again, I I read in the paper how We're going to have all these retirements from the police department You know what and i'm not here to speak for or against that I think they have the reasons for wanting to retire But what is concerning is that there's so many And the time frame that we're looking at um, I would I would ask some of the private sector representatives here that are in a council kori buk back who's not here uh jim gisha if 60 percent of your top management Left what would that do to your business? What would the board of directors say when you had those things happening? Would they be as happy to see everybody go like that? No, I don't think so I think they'd they'd want something where it was more timely and it was well thought out And and again, I'm not here to say no that these people should not retire I think they have good reasons for wanting to retire but I think that You should take your time And also when you're looking at filling the positions and and and I I read the paper where I know all Dominguesha said well, you know, this is a cost saving effort and we're going to be looking at saving money And in the long term we're going to take the cost savings and we're going to hire additional patrol officers And I would like to see that that actually follow through And to even go further If the police chief does decide to retire I think you have more than enough qualified Personnel within the police department Where you could have the next chief for the sedish boygan to come within the rank and file the police department I don't think you have to go outside the city to be looking for A potential candidate when you have such Overwhelming and qualified staff within the the present police department to be able to promote And to fill the positions that are that are going to be vacated I don't think you have to go outside and look for a chief elsewhere I think and if you and if you use the argument, well, you know what this is big city crime now We're having these problems. We're getting all these things Where was that two years ago when I kept coming here and saying we got a drug problem We got a gang problem Don't use that as an excuse to go outside and now to hire somebody else Without side the community you have individuals that are within the police department that are Well qualified to be able to to promote into these positions And I think that who's ever going to be looking at the hiring process and who's going to be involved That I think you should look within the department. I really do I've I've had plenty of contact with some of the officers and I've talked to them And they all personally feel that there is definitely enough personnel within the department to be looking at To hire some of those management positions and and even the chief if he does decide to retire I would say and and you know one of the other things is I I've heard and I've read in the paper that You're looking at the non-union reps. You're looking at the cost savings on this What happens is I can give you examples when you hired the IT position when you hired the city assessor what happens is You you want to save money but the people that actually come aboard actually are making higher Than they normally would they're starting salaries. I mean if you're looking at the IT position I think the person who retired was making something close to 90 some thousand dollars by the time you hired some person That replaced that individual that was up in in the mid 70s I mean that person worked for over 25 years to get to that that level and now you've got a person that comes in Less than a year is making that kind of salary How can you justify saying we're eliminating these positions? We're going to save money And then when you go out from within and hire people at such higher salaries that you're already Excuse me, Henry. Would you like an additional minute? Yes. Okay, go ahead. You're already At a loss because what happens is you're starting these people at above above the salary Some excuse is well, we got to pay this because we need to have these people come to the city Well, my response to that is that you have qualified officers that are presently in the city That would probably want to fill these positions and also the position of the chief I know that the mayor had said in one of the interviews as well You know, I look forward to seeing a female mayor in the city of sheboygan You know what I would say I'd like to see a female chief of police in the city of sheboygan And I think you have more than unqualified people within the department to be able to do that And I think the citizens of sheboygan that are listening to this should call you and should Voice their concern and say yes hire within the department. Thank you very much. Thank you Thank you to the Public that addressed the council tonight. I have some brief comments regarding the budget tonight And regarding an update on the new police station First the budget and deals basically with some of what's going on right now The budget has made his way to the council in a preliminary form Went to finance committee and each respective committee And has made is will may be making its way back and then on october 27th It'll go back to finance committee all mingisha. You get another kick at the cat If there's any concerns or any issues that anyone has please speak to all mingisha If there's any questions as to your understanding of the budget you can Feel free to call me here called uh terry hansson our of finance director On november 7th, you would We would take that as a date where the numbers will be finalized where the numbers will be taking shape as they're going to come through the the council November 17th, there's a public hearing some of you may or may not have been here But that date was we added on an extra public hearing date that's separate from the date of the adoption The concern there will be in to remind all that Why have a public hearing on the day of the adoption if you're really not going to be doing any changes? So this gives the people and again another opportunity aside from all those opportunities that you have to go to the committee meetings To address your concerns The actual adoption of the hearing is november 24th And there will be again a hearing before the adoption and that meeting is usually just For that particular purpose Two things that came into play as we worked through the budget And balanced it as you know when I submitted my preliminary budget, it wasn't quite balanced yet. It is but it is balanced now My special thanks To bill bidner and chief kirk Because they came through When times were rough they understood what was going on Bill bidner stepped up to the plate and made some changes that in his mind And I trusted judgment that will create efficiencies and cost savings As we continue to remain responsive to the people of shaboyan as a plea for tax relief We have to resort to drastic moves And we have to take a much much closer look A very close look As to how we're conducting business and how that business is affecting the people and what it's cost in us So bill bidner stepped up to the plate Made the necessary changes that needed to be made and assured me That things will although they will not roll as smoothly as possible Probably works will be manageable The other person is chief kirk He too stepped up to the plate I know there's been some concern addressed tonight as to the safety Maybe perhaps compromising or jeopardizing the safety of our citizens and the police force I thank chief kirk for taking the initiative To come in to me and some alderman and saying I have a plan That will make my department more efficient And more cost effective reorganization that you have heard about Chief kirk initiated this and as I listened to it. I wasn't too much in favor of it But as I listened to it more and more it made more sense The numbers make sense the math makes sense Emotionally, it may not make sense to see this many years of experience If you want to calculate cumulatively what that experience amounts to It may not make good sense to a lot of people But mathematically, financially And keeping the police department well structured it makes sense Please understand that no one twisted anybody's arms or pulled anybody's ears As I said, I wasn't in favor of it in the first place The terms were mutually agreed upon Chief kirk assured me That public safety or that of his police force would not be jeopardized or compromised I take that in full truth This is why I feel comfortable that these early retirements Are important not only to the new police to the police department But to our budget as we look to balance it And continue to be responsive to the people's pleas For tax relief Next item I'd like to just briefly talk about is give you an update on the police station November 7th, which is a friday There will be a lot of moving going on to the evidence and property rooms And anything else can be packed and ready to go The overall department move is november 12th. That's a wednesday So you're looking at friday to wednesday Things should be out of here The first day of operation at the new police station is november 17th That's when they will physically be operating out of the new police station The radio cut over will be at 6 a.m. And hopefully i've been assured everything will work out. There'll be no disruption Open house. This is important. It's november Saturday november 15th And a ribbon cutting will be held and We will be inviting people but in general invite anybody And everybody to come join us at this very important date The ribbon cutting will be at 9 30 a.m. And tours will be given at 11 o'clock for certain guests alderman Department heads city employees and so forth and then the open house to the general public will be from 12 30 to 2 30 p.m And if there's more people than we can fit in within that time frame We'll extend it. We'll we'll make sure that people get a chance to see their new police station Also, if some of you have driven have driven by there, you'll see this big cellular tower that's gone up A huge one very modern state of the art. That is a agreement that was reached with the cellular company and Hopefully it'll it'll be ready when the police are ready to move in there But hopefully they'll be able to be using it because we will be Paid a monthly amount for that. So that'll be our way of recouping some of the costs for that And during McLean worked out the details in the agreement and it turned out to be a really great agreement there I should say Something else because it's really great news As you'll recall we bonded eight million dollars for eight million dollars and we borrowed a million dollars from the industrial fund To date we have An estimated remaining funds in the in the in the bond 105,000 549 dollars And 387 thousand dollars 387 554 in the industrial money The bond money that's left over may may have some restrictions and we'll take a look at that Some of that cost may be able to be applied to planning the design The industrial money. There's no restrictions. As you know, it was money It had been put aside by the city of shabuigan and that was transferred over for the for the police stations So if you take the 105 549 387 554, that's 493 103 dollars under budget And we have a fabulous fabulous police station If anybody hasn't seen it just drive by and if anybody wants to see it go to the ribbon cutting ceremony You will be absolutely amazed and pleased. I visited that Facility at least six seven times and every time I walked in there I came out feeling better and better and every time I talked to the police officers They were feeling better and better. It truly is a remarkable accomplishment That this council has made to the city of shabuigan and to our police force So I thank you for that Moving on we have two hearings One to amend the zoning map to change the use district classification for property located in north avenue And kelly med dry from urban industrial to urban commercial classification the second hearing For the vacation and this continuance of a portion of a paved north south alley between south seven street and south Eighth street and bordered on the south by clara avenue Is there anyone that would like to address the council? Renace shop, please And please tell us which one which one you're addressing the council first one Go ahead. I've got your address. Thank you I'll wrap up shortly The majority the information that i'm sharing with you tonight came from listening to the december 13th 2005 audio tape of the public protection safety committee Reviewing old council tapes and reviewing my notes and other documents given to me by the planning department and the police department I know it will be very difficult for anyone that was involved in this Uh situation three years ago to comment on it without reviewing their notes Um, the reason I say this is because three years ago the primary focus of the situation was lost Chief kirk did such an excellent job of throwing mud at me that he diverted the attention off of his men who misled the entire council The focus needs to go back to the issue of public safety Three years ago. We were told that one of the most dangerous intersections in the city was located at the corner of north avenue in caliumet drive With the close proximity of this dangerous Intersection to the north 21st street We were told it had to be closed due to the safety concerns with people cutting across multiple lanes of traffic If you think about the people that used to use that street when it was in existence It was primarily used by people who lived or worked in that area We didn't have many people coming from the south side of shabuigan or coal or howards grove to go for a joy ride on that Little street. It was pretty much just a subset of shabuiganites that really used that shortcut However, when you put a strip mall Up on that site and you put the parking lot located actually closer to the intersection Than where the street was because the strip mall is going to go pretty close to I guess right where the street North 20 feet north 21st street was so the parking lot is going to be closer to the dangerous intersection You have to kind of question about public safety if you closed a road for that reason How can you justify putting a parking lot where cars will be coming in and out cutting across? You know multiple lanes of traffic and now you've created a destination And we just got done talking about the little road was pretty much used just by people who lived and worked in the area Now you do have people coming from howards grove and coal or And south side of shabuigan all the way up to the strip mall because they're going to have eight tenants in there Which which I think is going to be great and i'm real excited to hear who they're going to be But the question you need to ask again is why didn't the police department have any safety objections when the planning commission or the architectural review board looked at this project last week And I think the answer is because there aren't any safety objections Since this is the case. I believe you should change the zoning tonight and allow the strip mall to be built Thank you Thank you Is there anyone else that would like to address the council? On any other two hearings Henry Henry which one are you talking on? I'm talking about the same problem yet. Thank you I hadn't planned on coming here and speaking on this, but I've been here in shabuigan for such a long time. I can remember when Some of you might even remember We're in that same spot. There used to be a fast food restaurant I think it was called robbies if i'm not mistaken And I remember because I was in high school at the time That was a big parking lot there. You had plenty of traffic coming and going I don't see why There would be a problem with that being a commercial site at this point says at one point it was and also with all the things that i've been hearing about the budget and The shortfalls and everything I would think that you would want to be able to Include that and increase the base For property taxes in that area. So it just makes sense to be able to do that now what happened A year or two years ago regarding What occurred with the police department and Former alder person. I think that's pretty much water under the dam I think that at this point you're looking at what you have before you It's a commercial site that potentially could generate some tax revenue and I I would recommend that You look at this and and do approve the the rezoning because you already have more Growth just right across the street with the wall greens That and I just drove by there and when they first came out and I I was thinking about it And I thought well, how's that going to look on there? But you know what now that it's there it actually looks very nice I I even know that uh, they repaved Well, that's my vet over there that I take my dogs to And they repaved that parking lot also So I think that for all intents and purposes I think that this is a good thing for shaboykin and I would encourage you to Be able to change the zoning on that that property Just for the the property tax revenue that you're going to be able to generate Thank you Thank you Is there anyone else that would like to address the council? Is there anyone else? Is there anyone else? President henna Thank you, mr. Mayor. I'd like a motion to close the hearings second motion and second to close hearings under discussion There is none all in favor say aye. Aye Any opposed? Motion carries hearings are closed Consent agenda 14-1 through 14-17 president henna Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that all RO's be accepted and placed on file And all RC's be accepted and adopted second motion and second under discussion There is none. Please call the roll Communications and petitions 14-18 and 14-19 to be referred Report of officers to 1420 through 1426 to be referred Resolutions introduced 3 1427 by old man. Gisha clay Eunice bauk Boran and montemayor Authorizing the finance director treasurer to enter into contract for the reconstruction of wisconsin public service gas lines On indiana avenue in the amount of 75 thousand dollars 968 and 43 cents president homing issue Thank you your honor I'm going to ask for a suspension of the rules and offer an explanation. Is there any objection to suspension of the rules? There is not please offer the explanation. Thank you The there's a time frame need for this frankly. There was a miscommunication departmentally on getting this Getting this together and there's a timeline window that is closing It's kind of interesting that we are actually paying wisconsin public service instead of the other way around But that's the way the rules work. So i'm asking that That this be adopted For the amount noted. Okay, so you're making you're making a motion put it upon its pass put it upon its pass Is there a second motion second under discussion? There is none Okay, hold on Thank you, your honor. Can I ask the chair just to offer an explanation as to how that number came to be? The source of the number Gee, thanks, uh, especially the 42 cents whatever I will pass the buck to uh To uh, polet enters uh, she was at the meeting and uh, we'll be able to offer It's my understanding. It's a formula of sorts, but I I did not get the specifics on the polet which please step up The polet is the department head. There's no need to open the floor Thank you, mayor and common counsel The amount is related to the length that has to be moved And typically wisconsin public service if they're going to be moving the line They would pick up the cost but because it's not necessary for them to move the line now We just need it to we need them to move that line because of the indiana project and the um, I guess the Significant size of the reconstruction We have to pay for a certain length and that's how they come up with that figure Okay, thank you polet Okay, is there any further discussion? Otherwise i'm calling the The vote please call the roll Decker Gisha hannah Heidemann kittleson clayunas meyer montemayor rinflige ryan suric van der wheel verhassell wongerman and boran aye 15 ayes motion carries 1428 all of them in my house Thank you your honor on um agenda item number 1428 I'm hoping jan wilberg is here tonight just to give us information even though we're not Voting on it tonight. I don't see her Next meeting sorry, okay, thank you 1428 and 1429 lies over 1430 to be referred Report of committee 6 1431 by law and licensing Recommendant denying beverage operators license number 8032 based on the applicant's failure to include all relevant convictions on the applicant and failure on the application In failure to cooperate with the committee Vice president borne Thank you your honor. I moved at the report of committee be accepted and adopted motion and Second second under discussion Under discussion your honor is joseph mendez here tonight He's not here your honor very well, please proceed Mr. Mendez had two opportunities to appear before the committee the second one by certified mail He did not appear and for the reasons you stated previously We decided we voted unanimously to deny the application Thank you vice president borne any further discussion There is none. Please call the roll gisha Hanna Heidemann Kittleson Clioness Meyer Montemayor Rindflige Ryan Surrick Vanderwheel for Hassel Wongamon borne and decker 15 eyes motion carries 1432 and 33 Lies over to november 24th The report of committee 7 1434 by law and licensing Recommendant deny and beverage operators license number 8060 Based on the applicant's failure to include all relevant convictions on the application Record of violations related to the license activity and record as a repeat law my leader Vice president borne Thank you your honor. I move that the report of committee be accepted and adopted Motion and second under discussion under discussion your honor is mark felde here tonight He's not here your honor. Thank you. Please proceed Mr. Feldy did appear before our committee on october 14th and after Discussion with mr. Feldy. We voted Three to one to deny the application. Thank you Any further discussion There is none. Please call roll hanna Heidemann kittleson clioness meyer montemayor rindfleisch ryan I'm sorry. Thank you siruk van der wheel for Hassel Wongamon borne decker and geisha 15 eyes motion carries 1435 through 1439 to be referred for part of committee's 8 1440 by finance Recommendant authorizing an early retirement incentive program in the police department for 2008 and authorizing the mayor and the interim director of human resources to offer the benefits to qualify in police department employees all right geisha Thank you your honor. I move that the resolution be put upon its passage motion and Second under discussion allerman wangman Thank you, mr. Mayor fellow council members I've received a lot of Contacts on this. I've talked to a lot of people all over the city I find a lot of people are against this They find it hard to understand Why we have to pay people to retire and I know that's not the concept that's being employed here, but I I find that there's a great deal of objection to this And I think every one of us of course is aware That we're here to represent our constituents. Each of us represent approximately 3200 people and You have to know that this is a very difficult issue for me because I feel very closely about the police department I feel very strongly about Chief kirk. He's a I consider him a personal friend as well as deputy chief Shervin, I've known both of these men for a very long time. They're both very qualified and highly Conscientious officers and they've done a lot for the safety of the city and to promote safety in our city but I can't agree with this concept and Because of that, I would have to vote no on this. Thank you. Thank you And so it doesn't get an emotional doesn't get emotional. Please address the chair I'm sorry Thank you, your honor I'm opposed as proposed as I voted nay at the souring grievance committee and and I voiced some objections to his proposal at the finance committee And I will I plan on voting no this evening For several reasons one. I think that you know, they're losing a lot of experience two hundred and thirty years of experience We're we seem to be rushing into something. I think that I'd rather see down on a slower basis You know let the tradition take its course Analyze the program is this working is it not working and how do we fill the positions? There appears to be no succession planning plan here and there seems to be no organizational Chart that we can kind of take a look at but that being said Because I fear it might pass tonight So I would like to move to amend this proposal and add that Any employee benefiting from this program Be restricted from future employment with the city for a period of two years from date of termination Is there a second second thank you The amendment is that any city employee be restricted from future employment with the city of shabuagan for Two years from date of termination. There's a motion and second under discussion the amendment only I'm going to turn off the lights Okay Can I first ask who did the second please? Thank you Vice president borne you go first Thank you I would have a problem with the amendment because that would also Preclude somebody for running for older person which I would not feel comfortable with Precluding somebody run for public office I guess I would have some problems with with people being re-employed by the city, but I would have a problem with I won't consider I won't consider the amendment unless it's amended to not include people running for office which I have a problem with precluding people from doing that if they wish Okay, Hannah on the amendment. Yes. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. I share vice president borne's concerns And may I ask our city attorney a question? Please. I mean is it within our rights to restrict people as to How their future their future employment? Yes, I think you can preclude them from being hired again by the city As to whether you can prevent them from running for elected office. I would say no Thank you. So then That motion that that would oh by vice president borne suggesting Should not be made with the two issues going on one Any any anyone that's offered their retirement cannot be hired within a period of two years after they take their early retirement Now we're going back and saying They can't if they run for office, but they can't if they get hired. I don't Well, please explain that I don't think that that hasn't been acted on. I mean that's been suggested by alderman borne, but I think I don't think constitutionally the council can prevent Someone from running for an elected office. You know, there's there's statutory Criteria for people running for elected office and I don't think the council can unilaterally say that Because an individual was an employee of the city that they can't run for an elected office I do think you can prevent or state that They can't come back as an employee Or an officer of the city, but I don't think you can prevent them from running for elected office So then there's no need to change your I'm taking them in the order All right Thank you, mr. Mayor I did I disagree with having restrictions To say that they cannot be employed by the city period for for two years after leaving office A couple years back I came up with an anti cronyism Resolution which was basically aimed at us alderman that we weren't hired by the city After we left our elected positions And what we did with that is is we came to a decision In agreement that nobody and any former alderman could not be hired by the city Without a three-quarters vote of the council You know, I mean we're looking in the future to also save more money with the department possibly by using some retired officers When we can renegotiate with the the police union possibly use some of these retired officers for the parade routes Um, yeah, we can we can use these these these retired Folks to save the city money So to to basically exclude them from any employment with the city I don't think is right because we we could have some true cost savings there And to totally say no you can't work for the city for two years makes no sense I would say that if it does make sense That three quarters of the council would see that it does make sense So I would like to Offer a friendly amendment to that that Rather than restricting it for two years With for restricted for two years or with a three-fourths vote of the council Because I mean they we may have some real cost savings that are coming up That we can use retired police officers for Why not take advantage of it if I I would think this council or any future council has enough sense that it would Approve something if it does indeed make sense. Thank you Thank you, your honor. I uh the amendment actually refers to the bio program only is the way I phrased it But I would and I would maybe just to go along with attorney mclean. He had A non-elected positions in there just to make it clear and I would agree with To follow the amendment to have a three-quarter approval of the council to Bring by the someone back for employment at the time. Okay, so we don't have to go back Why don't restate? Why don't we restate your motion and then if we can get a second today? I say that an employee benefiting from this program be restricted from future employment to a non-elected position with the city for a period of two years from date of termination and this restriction can be Let me Steve get on the overrule by two-thirds of three-quarter rule of the vote of the council whatever Waters Thank you Motion second under discussion on that motion only I'll get you Thank you, your honor You know, we do have a hiring freeze here till the end of next year In the in the city the council will have would have to vote on every employee hire anyway for the next Year and a quarter so I just get the sense that this is treating these seven fine individuals with 220 years Of experience serving this city kind of shabbily To think that there's some grand conspiracy of they're going to come in and swoop up taxpayer money By leaving the city and coming back in and the old double dipping conversation. We've heard it's just a little Disconcerting to me frankly If we're losing if the argument is we shouldn't do this because we're losing all these years of experience But oh no, we can't let them work for the city again ever that just seems to be somewhat contradictory to itself So I just think it's a shabby way to treat people where if we need them we could call on them They couldn't according to this this amendment work for sue richards at a polling place To help out this city for a hundred bucks for like 26 hours a day where they'll work I just don't I just think it's it's putting a cloud over individuals Who have done nothing but honor this city and brought this proposal to us in a matter of honor to to put this cloud over their head I just It doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't serve anything except I think tarnish their efforts thank you Okay, I will call the roll on the motion as amended Vote in favor approves the early retirement plan with the amendment That people are not Just the amendment. I'm sorry. That's right. I'm sorry. That's right on the amendment only please read the amendment so we can get it Yeah, okay Well something to the paraphrase to the fact that the amendment would restrict employees taking this early retirement program From working with for the city for a period of two years from termination Except as a non or as a non elected person Or with three quarters approval of the council. Is that basically what you're Saying so an aye vote would do that. Okay, let's call the roll height of men Kittleson Clowness Meyer Montemayor Rindflash Excuse me Ryan Suric Vanderwheel Verhaselt Wongaman Boran Decker Yesha Hannah Nine eyes six nose Motion carries. I need a motion to Pass the resolution as amended Is there a second Second under discussion on the motion as amended almond kittleson Thank you. Mr. Meyer. I I guess I just want to state I I have concerns about this plan as well and I I'm just not certain That the money that we are expecting to save or whatever is going to To go for what it's intended to go for that concerns me I I feel strongly that if if we can Reorganize with an incentive plan. I guess I'd like to look again at reorganizing maybe without the incentive plan as well So, thank you Next we have Alderman Clowness Thank you your honor. I also have some problems with this particular proposal I see it for a number of reasons as troublesome It sets a precedent. Are we going to be buying out or paying out different? department heads every year Let's become an expect at an expectation of these people that well, I'll just come and say this is the package I want and I'll get it another thing is I'm not sure we are going to be saving money. We're going to be paying it out of this budget this 309 We'll be coming out of this budget out of our operating funds It's not going to be something that we pay off in the long term. It's coming out right out right now I also think to ask ourselves the question is mathematics the only reason we make decisions You know, if it's cheaper or it looks cheaper or it looks like a better deal Is that the only reason we would? Reorganize the police station in this manner. I do think the police station needs to be reorganized I had some concern when the representative from the police association spoke about His concerns That this could be happening too fast or that we wouldn't be doing things In the right way. So we would be leaving the department exposed without enough Leadership and without enough experience and that we'd be taking some chances As we know we don't move fast in government And he was you know asking for a very quick movement And I'm not sure that we're ready to do that without a lot of Looking at the structure in the organization So I appreciate his his comments And I'm not sure we can give him that a speedy a response And I am concerned about our liabilities and responsibilities to the citizens of shabuagan With some leadership still in place and if we can let this move through at at Attrition where people retire when they're ready to retire and we move them in place their replacements in place with a logical and Sensible and reasoned pace We might be doing the city more good Thank you President hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor and I really appreciate detective walsh taking time the It was several months ago that the police chief approached me on this issue And I had pretty much the same concerns that detective walsh had But the police chief has assured me That he does have a succession plan That his police department is prepared to to step up in fact He used the example now that often he and deputy chief shervon are off at conferences And the police the police department doesn't stop There's a whole method by which they continue to manage and there's a line of command So I have I trust police police chief kirk. He's assured me that there is a succession plan in place He assured me that this is the best way to get more police officers on the street I assure a detective walsh that I will be diligent in making sure that we get those officers on the street Ryan Thank you, mr. Mayor I concur with uh alderman hannah, you know that the police department is is is The structure of it is like a military organization And the military one one person leaves a leaves an office another person moves in You know if they're if they're out in the field and one person happens to be a casualty the next guy steps up Police department is structured in the same type of fashion It doesn't take into the in the police department Months and months and months for somebody to step into that next higher position The the the big question here is going to be filling those lower positions Because we have to get some people hired and get them on board and that will be our job as a council Provided that this passes to make sure that we approve that and that we get the ball rolling on that I'm going to support this. Thank you Thank you, mr. Mayor. I've already spoken to this item of course But there was one part of it I I I didn't speak to and that was the reorganization and nobody agrees more about the reorganization and I do It's something that should have been done many years ago I've always maintained that the police department in many ways is extremely top heavy and I of course have personal insight into that having been worked there when I started on the department in 1963 The staffing level was much lower than it is now Each shift had a lieutenant and a sergeant now. We have a captain a lieutenant and a sergeant We had one captain that took the job that Is now occupied by a deputy chief at one point. We had three deputy chiefs on the department So a reorganization is really uh very much in order, but I'm not convinced that if we Turn this buyout down that this can't happen. Anyway, I don't understand why if we If this buyout is not passed why we can't go ahead with the reorganization anyway In fact, I question as to why it wasn't done years ago I think everybody there in the department itself agrees that There's a lot of if you want to call it that dead wood that maybe should the system should be refined And that we need to have probably a lower staffing level. So I wouldn't have much preferred it if this could have been presented in two different documents Because there are people in this chamber right now that are against the buyout but are very much in favor of the Shuffling of the police department and it would have given these people a chance or a voice to be able to express that opinion But now we've got them both lumped together It's being treated as one item and in my opinion, it's actually two separate entities So, uh, this is why basically I can't support it because I can't support the buyout But I certainly do support a reorganization that's badly needed. Thank you Thank you your honor, um I'm going to go backwards. I guess You can't do The reorganization without the buyout It's that simple. You can't do one without the other when you have That nobody's fault but just out of sheer baby boomer bubble When you have seven Individuals representing roughly 10 percent of the entire city budget Unless you remove that you have no money to reorganize This reorganization makes it more of a pyramid with management on the top and adds dollars for the bottom I can't stress enough You all have your budget books. You have last year's budget books and this year's budget books You cannot have more officers on the street unless we do this So if you want more officers on the street, you vote yes for this If you want less officers on the street, you vote no on this It's really comes down to that basic fact I appreciate matt walsh's comments. He's absolutely right being vigilant on the On the rehirings That will be available with freeing up these dollars is all of our responsibilities in this room And I illustrated for the both of the committees the immediate hires and the remainder going to patrol and detectives We have a serious need for more detectives. There's no money to hire them zero And this gives us money to do it. We have a serious need as as matt walsh from the sppa noted For officers on the street. We correct. We we addressed some of this last year Many of us were in this room or the back room. We swore in six additional new officers. It worked the money every money dollar from last year's Early retirement buyout went right back to the police department plus some So it worked from that sense last year As far as management leaving this was brought to us by the chief It was a plan by the chief and the deputy chief If anybody believes that the chief would would Take a check and put the city in peril Don't know chief kirk very well and as far as Leaving us with a vacuum of management. I thought alderperson ryan spoke to that very well top managers hire top people And a suggestion was made about private industry if you had your entire half your board of directors or management team leave I can tell you in our company a five and a half billion dollar company if that happened I wouldn't sweat For a second because if you're a good manager, you're how you're good people who are prepared to step up You want them to step up the chief spoke very well about the excitement in the department right now And and how it's it's been a positive thing internally to that how he spoke about the safety is his number one concern and he's he's he's ultimately Satisfy that that there will be no safety risk the citizens of shabuagan And doing this These questions were answered at all these committees I know we had a lot of alderman there. Perhaps we should have a lot more there They were important blocks by the chief and by the deputy chief and actually the money doesn't come out of the o9 budget Comes out of the o8 budget has to be paid by december 31st We start paying it back in the o9 budget So we can't reorganize because we don't have any money to reorganize And to add more officers So it really comes down to if you vote for this You're in favor of more officers on the street if you vote no then The the complaints are there by the citizens The complaints might be there about this early retirement buyout having to pay all this money I'll tell you those some people complain a lot more when there aren't enough officers in the street so with no vote Does not put more officers on the street And I think this council stood for a lot of things over the last couple years But that number one thing has been has been something we've all spent a lot of time and energy on And a yes vote puts them on the street If you don't want to vote yes, want to vote no Then there's there's a 50,000 people in this community to explain why there's no more officers on the street that we need Alderman rain place Thank you, mr. Mayor I have to follow that one up. That's going to be tough um, I think though the argument of A yes and a no vote and what it means is a opinion of one alderman sitting next to me. I think it's perhaps a bit Insulting to the work that you as mayor have done and can continue to do us as a council can continue to do And the police department as a department can continue to do No one here is for more crime. No one here is for less officers But as alderman clayunas said we are losing a vast amount right away as alderman longerman did say If it was possible to do two separate documents These are ideas that need to be taken into account and to simply rule them out at this point in time Because we have a vote right now. I think is a little short-sighted Again, if it if there was the retirement plan and reorganization, that's great But the buyout is the concern that I have at this point in time One i'm still not convinced that the numbers are there immediately for this It may be but I don't think that last year's experiment Doing so the numbers that we got to do the buyout Shows that it's it's not as effective as it can be. It's one way to to do it to reorganize But I give the police chief some credit to come to This council to your office mr. Mayor and suggest this I mean it's a very bold statement to say that they're willing to work with the taxpayers work with the leadership of the city to To propose something and I give them great credit for that as well, but I think The precedent that uh that uh alderman clainison mentioned is something that we're we're going to run down the slippery slope If we're going to look at other departments to do some reorganization as well They won't come to us unless there is some kind of management buyout Clause in that aspect, uh, and I think that's that's something that can be dated said Down the road is if we go to public works or other departments say okay now you're up We have some money. We're going to buy you out now for retirement as well I think Long term we're going to find more and more of that and to me the moral issue comes down to this this year Within the budget, uh, we will be paying people to retire at the same time We'll be laying people off without any benefit whatsoever in public works Uh, so what we're telling the union people that you're not important enough to pay to retire We're going to let you go we're going to tell management people. Thank you for your service Here's an extra bonus to retire at this point in time and I think that's that's something very dangerous, too and especially in these times of Taxpayers are looking at themselves. They're looking at their own jobs being in the part They're looking at the city watching out for for them as well And and we're basically telling that lower level that union people that We're not there to support you. We're going to let you go But we're going to look at the management say here you go. Thanks again and pat them back So I appreciate the time. Thank you. Thank you Next we have olemann rassel Thank you, your honor just a point of order here I'm not sure but the original doc isn't in our packet But um, correct me if I'm wrong madame city clerk, but the issue before us is whether we offer A retirement package and I hear a ton of discussion about a reorganization plan. I don't believe that's technically part of the document in front of us just uh I guess just a thought here as we pursue Discussion on the subject matter I've allowed that discussion because it bears directly on the on the uh, the resolution that you have in place the At uh, it's the direct it has a direct bearing to to the discussion there. So I will allow that. Thank you Next we have all along while in the second time sir Two times speaking on the issue just one last comment I have to take issue with all of anguishes statement and uh He's an expert on finance and I can't balance my checkbooks I have to you know bow to him on that But I think I know a little bit more about the police department and he suggests that we can't have a Reorganization unless we spend a whole bunch of money Well, I'm here to tell you if you would hand me tomorrow's roster I could put five men on the street and it wouldn't cost a dime Just through reassignment. That's all it would take. It's just reassignment We could put five officers on the street tomorrow And it wouldn't cause us a dime. Thank you Thank you, uh, vice president moran Thank you, your honor. I'm going to reluctantly support this tonight Uh, and the part of it that I don't like is also the buyout I heard from a retired police officer today That's been retired for many years that worked with alderman wangaman when he was on the force His comments comments to me where shame on all of them It does not show a lot of class After they're paid top wages Top benefits and almost an 11 percent retirement fund funded by the taxpayers He said it does not show a lot of class on any seven of them They have to be bought out to leave the the police department But I am going to support this although reluctantly Because I understand that it's the only way that the reorganization is going to take place But uh, this is a probably one of the most difficult decisions I've had to make since I've been on the council because I do not like having to spend 309 thousand dollars to get people to leave early. Thank you Alderman Ryan Thank you again, mr. Mayor Um, you know, I think everybody has some reservations about the the so-called buyout Um, everybody does you'd rather you'd rather have uh something that costs you nothing That's something that costs you money However with the buyout in the long run we are going to be saving money and putting more officers on the street This is a way of facilitating it of making it happen a heck of a lot faster Then if we waited several more years through attrition, which will cost us more money So, you know as distasteful as it may be to some people to have a 300 thousand dollar buyout This is the way to facilitate the process And that's why I'm supporting it. Thank you Alderman give her your second time also Thanks, uh, just a quick note on precedent. This doesn't set any sort of precedent We as a council don't have to do this ever again Uh ever Uh, we can we can decide to do it. There is a big difference between management and union Uh mediation arbitration laws, etc. It's our decision whether we do it ever ever again It's there's no precedent regarding this Um regarding uh, and I do have just huge amounts of respect for all the person wangeman my seatmate here And he's right. He uh, I'm not an expert on finance. Um, I can't balance my own checkbook either And I'm also not an expert in the police department And I would encourage alderman wangeman if he has such ideas I spent four months of my three months of my summer last year doing the first early retirement plan with alderman Hannah I've spent the last two and a half months On this plan if there is another idea. I don't see anybody bringing it up I don't see anybody else digging in on this if you have those ideas Don't keep them to yourself if you have an idea to put five or six officers on the street I think we'd all love to hear them And uh and until that time We have to find some way to do this and this is the only way It's the only way at hand The The final point is Regarding the dollars with alderman born with alderman rye and I I dislike Spending money for things But it like this But it's kind of like buying milk at the minimart It costs you a few cents more But you pay for the convenience right now the convenience for us Is they've come to us the police department have come to us with this plan This isn't alderman gish's plan or alderman hannahs or mary perez's plan This is 100 the police department's plan It's convenient for us to take advantage of this plan so that we can reach our ultimate goal It is not convenient for us to wait another five or ten years for natural attrition Because we will get no benefit. We will have no additional officers on the street next year. There is no money And uh again, that's why I say a vote for yes is for more officers on the street And second time I want to clean this Thank you your honor I just want to let you know that my vote no doesn't say I don't want more officers on the street I do want more officers on the street. I would like them on the street because we have people offering to retire Rather than being uh buying bought out to retire. So thank you Alderman Kilsen second time. Thank you, mr. Mayor. Thank you so much and I have to echo the sentiments I too want more officers on the street But I feel that Alderman wangeman did offer a way to to reorganize there are people who have ideas and I've always supported the police department and And I think there are ways that we can come up with the reorganization without having to Go through this incentive this incentive plan. Thank you In fact, second time field we leave. Okay. Thank you, mayor Uh An idea if we want more officers on the street, why don't we take the three hundred and ninety thousand dollars? Instead of giving it to people they're going to retire Ed take that amount of money and hire some officers And put them on the street. Thank you So this doesn't happen police address to chair when you're recognized There are no more I want to make one comment a couple of comments because if judging from the Healthy healthy discussion that I I think Needed to occur It may be a closed vote and in the event that there's a tie. I will vote support the the uh the early retirement You have to remember that that I was an alderman Several years before I became mayor not once Not once that I hear any other alderman talk about reorganization and when they did there was no reorganization occurring Uh chief kirk has assured me Several times public safety will not be negatively impacted His reorganization will put more police officers on the street, which is everything I hear all the time and I expected I didn't know how much but I expected calls and emails When this idea was leaked out or came out in the paper I can honestly say I had three Three people called me and two were in favor and one was not There may have been other people I called I did not get to talk to him, but I don't think that there were So that tells me that yes, there may be some disagreement on the community But it may be coming from a different direction for for different reasons Again, if there's a tie, I will vote supported on the basis that chief kirk Is there a cell phone going off here? On the basis that chief kirk has assured me that this is a great way to reorganize the police department and put more police officers On the street, madam Please call the roll kittleson clayunas mire montemay or rinflash ryan suric van der wheel verhasselt wongerman borin decker gisha hannah heidemann 10 ayes 5 no's motion carries mood along 1441 by salaries and grievances recommended authorizing an early retirement program in the police department for 2008 And authorizing the mayor and the interim director of human resources to offer the benefits to qualifying police department employees Allerman montemayor Thank you your honor Do we all go ahead and do this again or do we just file our document except and adopt and put the resolution upon its passage I accept and adopt and Please make a motion to file I move that we file this Is there a second? Motion and second any discussion on the motion to file being that 1440 has taken care of the matter Please call the roll kittleson clayunas mire montemayor rinflash ryan suric van der wheel verhasselt wongerman borin decker gisha hannah and heidemann 15 ayes motion carries 1442 By salaries and grievances recommend and direct in the city to immediately begin recruitment for a director of human resources and labor relations Allerman montemayor Thank you your honor when this came to um, I move that the resolution be put upon its passage and That's it except and adopt the board committee And accept and adopt the rc. I'm sorry Thank you. Is there a second? Second under discussion Thank you again your honor when this came to salary and grievance We were very eager to go ahead and start recruiting for an hr director We truly had thought it was going to work out with the county and mike collard truly thought it was going to work out But the county board of supervisors said no, it's not going to work out So i'm eager to get going on on hiring looking for somebody for an hr director And I think susan hart is more perhaps more eager than we are Uh Also part of this um resolution There's it says the committee on salary and grievance be responsible for this action and that this committee begin Interviewing potential human resource consultants upon approval of this resolution Which means we're looking for a head hunter, but if we go ahead and do that which i'm not yay or nay on that part of it um I would like to be sure that if our municipality magazine or our shabuagan website Gets an hr director. We don't still have to pay a head hunter for what he hasn't done Thank you Okay, please call roll clayunas mire montemayor rindflash ryan siruk van der wheel for hassel wangaman boran decker yeshah hannah heidemann and kittleson 14 eyes one no Motion carries 1443 by salaries and grievances bring in fourth The document providing raises for non-represented employees for 2009 and forward in the attached substitute resolution to the common council with no recommendation All the moment of my own Thank you, honor I move that we accept the rc And move that the substitute resolution be put upon its passage motion and For a second second second under discussion All in the cleanest Thank you, your honor. Uh, why was the one paragraph taken out? All in my own Thank you, old man clayunas because there is another document coming up toward the end of our agenda that takes care of that therefore all over hassel Thank you, your honor. I'd like to make a motion to amend the document To reflect a raise increase of rather than 2.3 percent To make it 0.81 percent Is there a second second under discussion on the amendment under discussion and the reason I the I guess the The reason I come up with that number is our Father alderman cori bow came up with a number did a little research on it and looking at the average shabuigan constituent Median in median income raises over the last eight years Their average increase over that period of 1999 to 2007 was 0.81 percent increase now comparatively speaking We would have seen our own non reps here in the city of shabuigan experience an increase on average annually of 5.29 percent Okay, if you break it down you're looking at things like over seven percent in the fire over six percent in the police department sit Excuse me city hall six percent transit over nine percent average increase During that time period. I don't think it's fair when our average constituents are earning less than one percent of an increase Per year that we're averaging five six and nine times that across our own city payroll The shabuigan press put out a nice article here just this past weekend It's actually friday and they document some numbers here over a period of 2006 to 2000 or 2000 to 2006 The average state four four person family lost six thousand dollars in their their take home pay During that same period of time using a five five point two nine percent increase The average city of shabuigan employee would have earned over 18 000 of an increase on their wage So again, we've got shabuigan city of shabuigan, excuse me state of wisconsin Four four person families losing six thousand dollars over the period of six years And for the same period of time a city of shabuigan employee would have earned 18 000 on top of that those numbers just don't add up and everybody watching this everybody in this room is well aware of the financial times that we speak of I just don't think that'd be right that we'd be uh Passing along such a raise even of two point three percent as meager as that might seem Comparatively it would take the average shabuigan citizen nearly 40 years To catch up given the same starting point at the rate that they've been getting increases So think about those sort of numbers another thing on top of that and everybody here again is aware There's been a lot of talk for the last three weeks about 401k is just losing trillions and trillions of dollars of value The average city shabuigan employee has no impact Being that they're part of the wisconsin retirement fund. So they have no effect on the retirement savings So I think there's some food for thought as we look to make a decision here. Thank you I'll uh only amendment. Please read the amendment To make the raise to zero point eight one percent instead of two point three percent There's a motion in a second. It's gone under discussion. Please call roll meyer Montemay or rindfleisch Ryan Suric Vander wheel for hassle wangeman boron decker Yesha Hannah Heidemann kittleson Clioness Nine eyes six nose motion carries an emotion to Accept and adopt as amended I mean put resolution upon his passage as amended Second under discussion as amended Please call a roll Montemay or rindfleisch Ryan Suric Vander wheel for hassle wangeman boron decker Yesha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clioness and Meyer Eight eyes seven nose motion carries 1443 By salaries and grievances bringing forth the document providing raises for non-represented employees for 2009 And Yeah, we're still the same That's just the one we got I actually I actually wanted you to start all over again. Sorry about that Ornus is Ornus is introduced number 10 1444 and 45 lies over Matters laid over 11 1225 Our own number 2050809 by the city plan commission For the vacation and this continuance of a portion of the paved north south alley between south 7th street and 8th and south 8th street And bordered on the south by clara avenue all in one to my heart Thank you your honor I move to accept and file the ro and the ordinance be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion There is none. Please call a roll rindfleisch Ryan Suric Vander wheel for hassle wangeman boran Decker Yesha Hanna Heidemann Kittleson Clioness Meyer And montemayor 15 eyes motion carries 1359 ro number 2290809 by the city plan commission relative to rezoning the property located at 2019 And 2021 north avenue from class urban industrial to class urban commercial All in one to my heart I move to accept and file the ro and the ordinance be put upon its passage motion and Second under discussion There is none. Please call a roll ryan Suric Vander wheel for hassled wangeman boran Decker Yesha Hanna Heidemann Kittleson Clioness Meyer Montemayor And rindfleisch 15 eyes motion carries 1335 resolution number 120809 by all persons hannah rindfleisch heidemann kittleson and ryan Authorizing the shaboyan police department to accept A traffic safety grant for owi enforcement in the amount of 20 000 dollars from the state of wisconsin bureau of traffic safety president hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor. I'd make a motion to file this document There's motion in second to file any discussion President hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor. Uh, it's not that they wouldn't want to work with this. It's just they could not fulfill the requirements Thank you very much any other discussion There is none all in favor say aye any opposed motion carries 1351 resolution number 120809 By all persons gisha clayunas born in montemayor authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2008 budget Establishing appropriation for distribution of tiff number eight excess increments Establishing revenue and appropriations for grant from the wisconsin department tourism For advertising relating to ymca national tournament almond gisha Thank you your honor. I move that the Resolution be accepted and adopted Submotion in second under discussion I would like to ask Paul at enders to return to the podium once again There's a kind of a curious item on here that uh, there was some discussion about prior to the meeting one of the distributions of funds from tiff eight Was to the colder public school system in the amount of 183 thousand four hundred and twenty five dollars And for the sake of the public and the rest of the alderman and frankly even a little myself It was explained to us in finance, but if paulette could help explain That rather odd distribution and donation to our friends to the west Thank you, um, it just happens in the boundary of that district A part of it includes the colder school district And so the surplus funds end up going back to that taxing entity During the entire life of the district we withheld those tax dollars and we could keep it in the tiff For those improvements, but now that it's closed out in their surplus Some of those monies go back to that taxing jurisdiction Okay, thank you paulette And we do have A motion to put the resolution upon its passage. There is no more discussion. Please call the rule Cirque vander wheel for hassles Wongamon boran Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clayunas Meyer Montemayor Rinflesch and ryan 15 eyes Motion carries 13 53 resolution number one two three oh eight oh nine by elder persons. Gisha clayunas balk Born in montemayor authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2008 budget Establish an appropriation for design and construction of stormwater ponds in connection with development agreement All me getcha Thank you your honor. I moved that the resolution be put upon its passage Motion in second under discussion explanation. I'm sorry under discussion. Thank you as explanation These were funds already budgeted already set aside to do these retention ponds I believe the project's on the north side of shabuagan It's now time to do that part of the housing development It's rather a large chunk of money and I think deserved a little bit of explanation. Thank you I I had you all so nobody heard you Okay, there is no more discussion. Please call the roll vander wheel Verhassell Wongamon boran Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clayunas Meyer Montemayor Rinflesch ryan and siruk 15 ayes Motion carries 1344 journal orders number 590809 By all the persons hannah rinflies ryan heidemann and kittleson relating to prohibited turning so as to add a note left turn Sign school days only 1 p.m. To 4 p.m Zone along the north side of georgia avenue to prevent traffic from proceeding west on georgia avenue When exiting the north driveway at horrors man middle school President hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that the ordinance be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion There is none President hannah Yeah, just one comment I did want to take time out to thank officer edson for bringing both of these items to the attention of public protection and safety Thank you Okay, please call the roll verhassell Wongamon boran Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clioness Meyer Montemayor Rinflaesh Ryan Syracke and van der wheel 15 ayes motion carries 1345 General Ordinance number 60809 by all the persons hannah rinflies ryan heidemann and kittleson Relating to prohibited turning so as to add a note left turn School days only 1 p.m. To 4 p.m. Zone for westbound traffic On georgia avenue upon approach to the north driveway at horris man middle school president hannah Thank you, mr. Mayor. I move that the ordinance be put upon its passage Motion and second under discussion There'll be a non. Please call roll wongamon boran Decker Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clioness Meyer Montemayor Rinflaesh Thank you ryan Syracke van der wheel and verhassell 15 ayes motion carries 1364 general ordinance number 610809 by all the persons geisha about repeating section 29-115 of the 1975 municipal code relating to the salary wage compensation program for non-represented employees Alderman geisha Thank you your honor. I move that the general ordinance be accepted and adopted motion and Second under discussion As a point of explanation your honor This goes hand in hand with the previous resolution we had that Accelerates the process of hiring an hr director now that the the county has made their decision This resolution effectively not effectively does eliminates our entire non rep pay plan that we've been playing ping pong with here for the last Year and a half and forces us to deal with it from scratch with the new hr director. They kind of meld together Unless we get rid of it and it's kind of universally understood that it's There's some need for that Even from the department heads. They've urged a lot of that at the meetings So this gets rid of that non rep plan and we start Anew With input from the non reps with input from the council with the input possibly from the community as directed by a new hr director Which we passed on the previous resolutions. Thank you. Thank you Alderman kittleson. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Meere I certainly hope that that is what truly what will happen, but you know, it hasn't worked out that way. So And I feel very strongly here that we're doing we're Doing things maybe that that aren't right and um, uh, I once I won't support getting rid of this language in the general ordinance Thank you All right, sir Thank you, your honor. Um, I too would not support this. I believe that The pay plan does have its fault. There's some problems with it. I admit that I'd rather see us have some program in place or to present to Fill the void and then perhaps eliminate the plan as it stands right now. Thank you. Thank you There's no more discussion. Please call the roll born Decker Yesha Hannah Heidemann kittleson no clayunas meyer montemayor rinflash ryan suric vander wheel for hassled and wangaman ten eyes five nose motion carries other matters attorney mclean 1446 is an arrow by the city clerk submitting a communication from kathy stable Claims director of transit mutual insurance company of wisconsin stating that they have investigated the claim of vint guard oak and ferris For injuries and our property damage and have determined that the city schwargen is not responsible for the alleged damages As presented in the notice of claim and request a formal disallowance of this claim that will be referred to risk management 1447 is a communication from dan binversee clean clearwater inspector for the city Requesting that their plumbing association be permitted to reserve the blue harbor convention center under the city's free days For their state plumbing conference to be held october 27 through 29 2010 that will go to finance 1448 is a communication from all the person for hassled along with the recent schwargen press article stating that wisconsin families are experiencing their worst sustained earnings decline since the early 1980s That is being referred to finance and salary and grievances and 1449 is a An arrow by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending june 30 2008 and june 30 2009 That will be referred to where do you want this one to go along licensing following licensing? I need a motion to adjourn All in favor say aye