Good afternoon everybody, welcome to DDRC members, staff and guests. We ask for your patience during this meeting. Multiple staff members are behind the scenes to make sure that the meeting runs smoothly and applicants and citizens are able to communicate with the commission at the appropriate time. Public will be able to participate via multiple methods. When participating, please provide your name for documentation purposes. The public may watch, email, phone in, or log into a web session. If you're watching, you may stream the meetings through City TV, accessed at www.youtube.com, backslash user, backslash Columbia SC government. The public may submit letters and statements via email to cocboardmeeting at columbiasc.gov leading up to and or during the meeting as this account will be monitored throughout the proceedings. Emails or letters will be read into the record. If you'd like to phone in, you can call<PHONE_NUMBER>. When prompted, please enter the meeting code 2252. Those participating by phone will receive three options on how to participate. Star 1 will allow you to listen. Star 2 will allow you to record a voicemail message that will be read into the record. And Star 3 will allow a participant to be placed in a queue so that they may speak live when prompted. Please make sure your computer audio is muted if calling in live via your phone so we don't get feedback. You can stream the meeting via the web at publicinput.com backslash cocddrc-can2022. We'll call the roll. Ms. Brannum. Here. Mr. Brum. Here. Ms. Jacob. Here. Mr. Salibi. Here. And Mr. Wolff. We have quorum. In order to avoid ex parte communications, DDRC members are under strict instructions not to discuss cases under consideration with the public or with each other outside of the public forum. The meeting typically starts with staff calling the case, giving a summary of the project, and then calling on the applicant to present if they wish. Decisions are typically made on one evening. Decisions may be appealed within 30 days to a court of competent jurisdiction. Oaths will be administered individually as we hear either from applicants or from live speakers. Applicants with requests before the DDRC are allotted a presentation time of 10 minutes. This time should include but is not limited to an overview of the project, case history, and any pertinent meetings held regarding the request. This time also includes all persons presenting information on behalf of the applicant such as attorneys, engineers, and architects. This time limit does not include any questions asked by the DDRC or staff regarding request. Members of the general public are given the opportunity to address their concerns and intervals of two minutes. Applicants may have five minutes to respond. Staff has a timer and will make presenters aware of when their time has expired. Are there any changes to the agenda? There are no changes to the agenda. The DDRC uses the consent agenda to approve non-controversal or routine matters by a single motion and vote. If a member of the DDRC or the general public wants to discuss an item on the consent agenda, that item is removed from the agenda and considered during the meeting. The DDRC then approves the remaining consent agenda items. Will staff please read the consent agenda? Our first project is 122 Try-On Street, a request for a preliminary certification for the Bailey Bill. This is in the Granby Architectural Conservation District. The next project is 1617 through 1619 Hayward Street, a request for a preliminary certification for the Bailey Bill in the Wales Garden Architectural Conservation District. Our third case is 1529 Assembly Street, a request for a design approval for an addition and side improvements in the City Center Design Development District. And our last case is 920 Gregg Street, a request for a design approval for exterior changes and preliminary certification for the Bailey Bill in the University Hill Architectural Conservation District. Is there anyone from the DDRC that would like any item removed from the consent agenda? Is there anyone from the public that would like to have an item removed from the consent agenda? Please communicate by sending an email to COC Board Meeting at columbiasc.gov or communicate via phone by pressing star two. Believe a voicemail or star three to speak in person. We will pause a moment to allow any communication from the public. We have not received any emails or phone calls. Do I have a motion and a second to accept the consent agenda and also the December minutes? I take a motion to approve the consent agenda in the December minutes. Second. Mr. Broom. Yes. Ms. Sims-Sprannam. Yes. Ms. Jacob. Yes. Mr. Salibi. Yes. And Mr. Wolfe. Yes. The motion passes. Great. We'll move to the regular agenda, please. Our first case on the regular agenda is 1231 Gervais Street. This is a request for design approval for exterior changes specifically for replacement windows for the Supreme Court building. The case originally came before y'all in April 2021 and there was a larger scope that was approved and replacement windows were approved as well with the condition that a mockup window would come back to y'all upon fabrication for your review and approval. So that is what we are here today for is for approval strictly of the mockup window for review and approval of the mockup window. So the window was fabricated and it's been at the back of the Supreme Court building for about the last week. The architects and I spoke about details on the window. Staff feels generally that it looks good with some of the details that were spelled out by Mr. Joe Guido as needing attention. There is agreement on those. So interior grids need to be applied to the window. But the final window will have ballistic glass. I just wanted to note that this is not the final glass in the window. For purposes of the mockup it was not. There's some small details like that medallion where the mutants come together and need to align properly. There's a rather extensive cock joint that would be minimized that we've discussed. And there's a ridge missing on the vertical mullion of the window. These are just strictly the arched windows that we're talking about right now. It's not only one that was required to have a mockup done because these are the most prominent windows. So those details that ridge on the vertical mullion needs to be addressed to. And those are some of the things that we talked about fastener that's visible that needs to become invisible if it's part of the final window. So anyway, staff feels like generally the window is a good mockup. That there are a lot of details that were well done and we just need to address these. So the recommendation by staff was to grant a certificate of design approval for the replacement windows, allowing staff to work out remaining details as listed with the applicants. And including the details of any other windows to be replaced for security purposes and any details which cannot be worked out. Where are sufficient important to warrant reconsideration by the DDRC? Maybe return to y'all for approval. That's where we are leaving it and opening it up for discussion with you all. And the architects are here if y'all have questions for them or would like to discuss anything with them. And it sounds like from your conversations, staff with architect, they're working with you and amenable to the items that have been pointed out. That's right. And that was one reason I felt confident about moving it forward and leaving details to staff because they seem committed to working these out. I was excited to see the mockup window. I dropped Amy a note every few months. Since we had this case, wondering where you are in the process, I went by and looked at it and I was pleased with what I saw with the comments that you had. I don't know if any other commissioners have any other comments on it. I totally agree. I think that I really appreciate the architect working on the details that they could clearly see needed some improvement in the mockup. And I have every confidence that the staff can continue to work with them to finalize it. And again, if there are any issues that you can't be resolved, then we're happy to relook at that. But it's starting to look beautiful. Are there commissioners any comments or concerns? All right, with that, I'd ask for a motion. Well, I guess I'll make a motion. I'd like to recommend- Oh, I'm sorry. Hold on. But we have to have a comment. I'm sorry. Yes, I'm in a Blitz Creek here. So guys, I'm sorry. It's been a long month. All right, sorry. Let's go back. We encourage those who would like to communicate via email to begin sending in letters and emails. You may email at COC board meeting at ColumbiaSC.gov or communicating on the web at publicinput.com backslashcocddrc-jan2022. For those wanting to leave a voicemail or speak live, call<PHONE_NUMBER>. When prompted, please enter the meeting code 2252 and then press star two to begin leaving a voicemail. Or if you'd like to speak live, press star three. We're checking all sources at the moment. I guess I felt like we discussed this case so much when we did that we were in great shape. We have not received any emails or phone calls. Any comments received in writing? No other comments? Okay. All right. I will now receive an emotion. Well, then I'd love to move that we, based upon Section 17-2.5 of the City of Columbia Unified Development Ordinance, that we move to grant a certificate of design approval for the replacement of windows at 1231 Gervais Street, allowing staff to work out the remaining details as listed with the applicants, including the details of all other windows to be replaced for security purposes. Any details which cannot be worked out or are sufficient importance to warrant reconsideration by the DDRC may be returned to the DDRC for approval. This approval is based upon the prior approval which allowed the replacement windows in April 2021, given the extraordinary security needs of the occupants and which required the review and approval of the first floor mock-up window. Second. Second. Mr. Brum. Yes. Ms. Sims-Branham. Yes. Ms. Jacob. Yes. Mr. Salibi. Yes. And Mr. Wolff. Yes. The motion passes. Next case. Our next case is 2210 Clark Street. This is a request for a certificate of design approval for exterior changes. The structure at 2210 Clark Street was constructed circa 1911 and is two stories with a hip roof. It has a partial width, shed roof front porch, and two front doors as it has been converted into a duplex since its construction. It retains its original form and like a number of other structures in Elmwood Park has had vinyl siding added to the exterior and some of the windows replaced. Overall, the structure is consistent with patterns in the district. The applicants are requesting to replace some non-original 1 over 1 wood windows. As these windows are later replacements and in poor condition, they may be replaced with appropriate replacement windows. This can be reviewed and approved at staff level. The windows requested for replacement that require review are on the facade and right elevation, which is currently obscured by vegetation on the neighbor's property, which, if removed, would make the right side highly visible. The applicant is requesting approval for vinyl replacement windows. Those are a key feature on historic homes that play an important role in the overall architectural integrity of a structure. Appropriate replacement windows that replicate historic profiles and detailing help maintain the integrity of districts as a whole. As such, when reviewing replacement windows in architectural conservation districts, preservation staff look at technical aspects of their replacement windows construction, including the sash size, muntin profiles, measurements of the rails and styles, and depth created by the distance between the front of the frame of the sash and the glass. Staff's experience has been that vinyl windows generally do not meet these technical standards. As you can see in the presentation in front of you, the comparison between a cross-section of a typical vinyl window, which was used as the applicant did not provide an interior, excuse me, an exterior view of the proposed window, versus a historic wood window shows the overall lack of depth of the vinyl window. While it is possible to include a muntin on the exterior of the vinyl window, like this one, the resulting muntin is flat, making the window lack the necessary depth overall. Compare that then to an aluminum clad window versus a historic wood window. The aluminum clad window leaves sufficient room for a muntin to create the overall depth that is standard in historic windows. I've brought a sample of an aluminum clad muntin, which was given to our office by a window representative. Amy's going to bring that up for you now. This is just an example of the type of profile that can be created with an aluminum clad window. And just as a note, the aluminum clad muntin that you will see in just a moment actually matches exactly the depth of the historic window shown here. As vinyl replacement windows have not previously met the necessary technical specifications, when the applicant requested to use this material, staff reviewed a sample of the window on site. In reviewing the proposed window, staff found that it was not consistent with the details of historic examples in the district or on this home. Other materials previously approved in the district, such as aluminum clad wood windows, are significantly more successful in replicating the details of historic wood windows, including muntin profiles instead of the glass and overall depth and profile of the window, as shown in these slides. As a result, staff denied the request to use the vinyl windows, which the applicant has elected to appeal to the DDRC. The review standards as set out in the unified development ordinance addressed replacement materials in several places, including F. Deteriorated historic features shall be repaired rather than replaced. Where the severe deterioration or complete loss requires replacement of a distinctive feature, the new feature shall match the old in design, color, finish, texture, and other visual qualities. And, where possible, materials. Replacement of missing features shall be substantiated by documentary, physical, or pictorial evidence, and character defining features that have been lost due to intentional damage, removal, or neglect shall be rebuilt. As these windows are damaged beyond repair and they are not original, they may be replaced, but the replacement windows need to be considered carefully. As the pane configuration of the historic windows on the structure are two over two, the replacement windows should replicate this pattern, as well as the profile of the historic windows. The proposed windows do not successfully meet this standard. In looking into past precedent for how requests of this nature have been handled, vinyl windows have not been approved in this district for either historic structures or new construction. As previously stated, architectural conservation districts prioritize the details of structures to ensure a high level of architectural integrity is retained in the district. Previous requests to use vinyl windows have not met those standards. Vinyl windows were not visible from the public right of way, such as on the rear structures are permitted. All in all, staff finds that their proposed replacement windows at 2210 Clark Street do not comply with section 17-2.5 G6B2 of the city ordinance and recommends denial of the request for certificate of design approval for exterior changes. It should be noted once again that replacement windows that are compliant with the requirements for the district may be submitted and approved at staff level. Any questions to staff? The sample represented what? What was it what they represent? The sample is just to show you that the profile that aluminum clad windows can achieve when compared to historic wood windows up on your screen right now. There's a side by side showing you a cross section of an aluminum clad window and a wood window. You can see that overall there's a similar amount of depth between the edge of the frame and the glass, whereas when you look at the vinyl window or a typical vinyl window as compared to an aluminum clad window as is up on the screen now, you can see that overall that vinyl window lacks the same kind of depth that you see in aluminum clad windows and historic wood windows. Thank you. Any commission or any questions or clarifications? I believe the applicant. Is the applicant here? Yes. Okay.  Please come up and state your name and do you swear to tell the truth in these proceedings? My name is Denise Jolly and I do swear to tell the truth in these proceedings. I did submit information prior to the 10th. Our biggest concern the house that we are in now was obviously built before I was born and before we honestly truly decided to be permanent residents of this area since that decision to take up residents permanently there we have started to restore inside things are obviously over the years not properly done and so in our research and restoring we have found not only from an EPA standpoint but just from a consumer standpoint that vinyl windows are longer lasting and I also submitted information from the government website on vinyl versus aluminum windows as far as like environmentally friendly and energy efficient windows and our biggest thing is one we have no issue in complying with like going forward and following information for what needs to be done which is how we kind of found out about the historical preservation even just going forward anything we've done on the house before when looking at the windows even the ones that were in our house to begin with a lot of the companies have gone out of business parts could not be replaced or ordered there's about eight windows on our house the company has gone completely out of business and so the company that we chose that does do the vinyl has been in business for over 80 years again that compliancy with energy efficient and EPA cited by the the dot go website that I submitted I get the aesthetic appeal and like the visual of like fitting into historical situation but for us this is our home and the longevity of it and to look at the window for me to go I'm not when you're walking by my window visual you're not going to be seeing the inside of the sash you're going to see the two lines and the double pane that fits in there and for us this is not like a side project this is our home that we'll be in we hope to be in for a significant amount of time and to not have to replace something every 15 to 20 years some of the pictures I submitted some of these windows that are coming out have been a mix of materials would vinyl not sorry not vinyl aluminum which obviously were put in poorly but it just shows that over time it has not sustained the company that we chose that we're asking to put the windows in has a lifetime guarantee as a person who's purchasing the windows we have reassurance that there's something wrong with the windows they'll be replaced which allows us to to maintain the upkeep of the home um and therefore just to add to the value of our neighborhood I'm gonna open up to any questions first of all thank you so much for for investing in this neighborhood because I think it's a wonderful neighborhood to be it's an amazing neighborhood yeah that's why yeah I decided to say and and I do think that um clearly you need to replace those windows and and we begin an approval to do so I think that you will find back to um your return on investment and things like that and in keeping with the guidelines that your aluminum clad windows are going to give you both the insulation that you're looking for the long-term maintainability and the profile that that we need for the historic district and and you know the other window manufacturer may be telling you that that's not true but that that is possible to find a relatively inexpensive aluminum clad window that has that profile that has the wood that's clad with the aluminum and it gives you that profile plus the insulatory factors that you're looking for it's not just a hollow aluminum window it's a clad wood so I think in the long run you'll be happier with the look of your home having the profile I realize that it's a long aside part but you never know I mean even on your interior for your purposes it's going to be your home you're going to see the same profile experience from what you have in your other window so I do believe that it's possible to get the best of both worlds by going with the recommendation of the staff and still meeting your your needs I think and I hear what you're saying because we did like once we got the first initial like denial like I probably called upwards of like seven to eight different companies for us none of us could offer the same guarantee that this company was going with not only that it was oftentimes like the length of time for the amount of windows that we need as you can see I was like we've got a window almost coming out of the side so while it's not like a completely broken window it's obviously an urgent thing some upwards of to 20 weeks for us to wait for windows and again I think for us being a prior military family like we're not investors we don't have a whole lot of money so for us this is what is going to get us the best quality of window that complies with like energy efficiency because at this point our energy bills are running about $500 a month of what we have on the window right now and then again just looking at that EPA from the government website and knowing that this is like energy efficiency like star rated and even some of the companies that we called to get that energy star rating are double pain for the aluminum we were going to be spending double what we were quoted for the vinyl windows so is it possible that you don't have to replace all of the windows are there some that you could keep and then maybe over time continue to do the replacement and I do appreciate that there's a backlog on on all building products these days so I'd be shocked if if the other company could actually get them to you quicker than can the others but maybe they maybe they can but but you know maybe an option is to try to just replace the most needed ones with the aluminum clad wood windows and then maybe over time start to replace the others might might be one way to to look at it so it's already kind of a weird situation because there are some historical windows on the home so there are five windows that we are keeping them like the original windows restoring the wood and doing that part but for the most part the rest of these windows like we have one that's in our older son's bedroom like another good storm probably coming through it's going to fall out you know it's going to fall out of the side you see the one where that's not even his bedroom like that's just like the downstairs side window and that's pretty much the condition of all of the windows that need to be replaced like they are holding on by a prayer at this point so again for us it's keeping the look and honoring like what needs to be visually in the community but getting it done getting it done safely getting it done something that's going to have longevity for our family and if I can call a company and know that they've been in business in America for 80 years and look at the warranty compared to some of the other companies that I've had because even in the neighborhood where there are the new windows going into the new construction they may be the aluminum but we're looking and researching and so some of these and the hardest thing too is the replacement aluminum so not even just getting aluminum for new construction but if you're looking for replacement aluminum windows in homes it is not as easy to find or order especially at this size as it is for the vinyl windows I do hear you and I promise we have I have done awful lot of research doing all this and like you said like for us it is the neighborhood you know like I sit on the new member council and I lead the women's bible study at Earlwood so like this neighborhood is not just an investment like this is our home and this is our community and so we do want to honor the restoration of this home as much as possible. Just a quick question for the applicant and for staff and thank you for being here today. I can certainly relate to your concerns being a homeowner myself and not wanting to undertake costs that are above my budget but I noticed that staff and their findings and comments mentioned that the vinyl windows the exemplars were not consistent with what was found in the neighborhood do you have any pictures of other examples you were able to find or are you asking about vinyl windows that are in the neighborhood right so any vinyl windows that are in that neighborhood were either there before the district went into place replaced without permits they were not approved as a part of the historic district. When referencing other examples of windows in the district we're talking more specifically about historic window profiles that's really where the issue comes into play even the windows the wood windows that are on their home have the same kind of depth as other historic wood windows in the area and as previously mentioned vinyl windows and the ones that are proposed just don't really come anywhere close to recreating my profile. Yeah I mean and this issue of course comes up a lot and unfortunately our role is to enforce you know what's required in the ordinance right now and clearly not all windows are made equally we've learned and I know it's a it is a challenge any other questions or comments all right well thank you we can move on to any public questions or comments. Does staff have any follow-up or anything you want to share or I will just add as well that appropriate replacement windows are an eligible expense for the Bailey bill. Y'all see Bailey bills quite frequently more often than not on the consent agenda but since appropriate replacement windows would restore historic profiles to the the windows that have since been replaced like I said that would be an eligible expense a way to qualify for that 20-year tax abatement so I just want to mention that as so staff could work with a homeowner to understand that process. Okay have you have you already discussed that with her? Yes okay great yeah I would definitely think that's a great thought to to pursue that option to help with the financial. In regard to the Bailey bill like as you know like there's even with the vinyl that was put on at some point illegally before we were in the home like there's plenty of other projects that we are going to use the Bailey bill for the vinyl like fixing that and restoring that like Driveway our HVAC system there's a lot of things that we know that will go towards the Bailey bill this is the windows in itself why we decided to even come appeal because at least the windows are in a budget where we know that we wouldn't get that reimbursement from the Bailey bills but we'll stood foot in within that $25,000 range where we're okay with not having to use the Bailey bill for that. Thank you. I will just mention to you that if vinyl windows are put into this home it's no longer eligible for the Bailey bill so even for any other kind of restorations we encourage those that would like to communicate via email to begin sending and letters and emails you may email cocboardmeeting at columbiasc.gov or go on the web at publicinput.com backslashcocddrc-jan2022 for those wanting to leave a voicemail or speak live call<PHONE_NUMBER> when prompted please enter the meeting code 2252 then press star two to begin leaving the voicemail if you'd like to speak live press star three it doesn't appear that we've received any phone calls or emails that being said i'll um oh anything and writing we were clear right okay all right with that i'll open up for a motion i guess i'm in charge of motions today i don't know if i was elected but i didn't know it i would like to um move that the request be denied for the certificate of design approval for these exterior changes at 2210 Clark street as it does not comply with section 17 2.5 b2 of the city ordinance replacement windows that are compliant with the requirements for the district may be submitted and approved at the staff level second second mr bram yes miss sims brannum yes miss jaco yes mr salidi yes mr wolf motion passes all right we'll move on to other business so the only thing we have under other business tonight would be our elections for chair and vice chair we had those open for nominations and um what i heard was that folks are basically very happy with the folks who are presently serving um and i did hear from the folks who are presently serving that they are happy to continue serving if that is still wanted um we of course can open up the floor for other nominations if anyone else would like to nominate another member of ddrc for chair or vice chair nominations open all right hearing none um then i would suggest that we just do a show of hands um uh for i guess we would start with our chair first so miss jaco being willing to serve and uh would be our our nominee and all in favor of proving miss jaco for a chair please raise your hand so nominated that passes thank you mr salibi has been nominated for vice chair and if we could see a show of hands for vice chair and that has been passed so thank you both for serving once again we appreciate this this is these our terms last for a year in case for newer members um so we always have elections in january so i like to make a motion to adjourn second there we go all right meeting adjourned thank you everybody thank y'all yeah there we go there we go


My fellow Americans, this coming week, the Republican National Convention will take place in New Orleans, the 32nd such convention since the Grand Old Party first met in 1856. I want to talk about that convention in just a moment, but first I'd like to tell you a little about what's been taking place here at the White House in the past few days. And you should know I have a special reason for wanting to do so. You see, in this campaign season, some and the other party are parading around the country talking and talking about what they claim they'd do if they were elected. Well, while they talk, we deliver. To begin with, I recently vetoed the defense bill that Congress had sent me. Why? Because Congress, perhaps taking their cue from the other party's leadership, laid on my desk a bill that would have set back our nation's defenses severely. I won't stand for that, neither will George Bush. Now it's up to Congress to come up with a new bill. One that strengthens our defenses instead of weakening them, and strengthens our hands still further in dealing with the Soviets. Still on foreign affairs, we're seeking from Congress effective aid for the freedom fighters in Nicaragua. In recent weeks, the communist regime in Nicaragua, the regime the freedom fighters are opposing, has stalled the R.E.S. peace plan, expelled the American ambassador to Nicaragua, shut down the independent press, and brutally suppressed a peaceful protest. Regarding Nicaragua, the leadership of the other party advocates policies of disengagement and unconcern, policies that would surely permit the communists to consolidate their power. Indeed, they would permit a communist lock on a nation right here in our own hemisphere. George Bush and I happen to disagree with them. It's our firm belief that in Nicaragua, the United States has a high moral duty. A duty to stand for human liberty and to extend our help to those who are struggling to secure it. Turning the matters here at home, we saw the passage this past week of an important fair housing bill. George Bush and I have supported stronger fair housing measures from the first, and I look forward to signing the measure. On Wednesday, I signed legislation that compensates Japanese Americans who were wrongly interned during the Second World War. And on Thursday, I signed into law the largest disaster relief bill in our history, trout legislation that will help the tens of thousands of American farmers who are suffering from this summer's terrible shortage of rain. So, while the other party talks about compassion, we put it into action. We're also working on important legislation involving trade. And in this connection, I might as well admit that the leadership of the other party has my Irish up. You see, they talk as if the country were in some kind of recession, if not an outright depression. But the truth is just the opposite. Since George Bush and I put our economic policies in place, we've witnessed the longest peacetime expansion in American history, an expansion that has created over 17 and a half million jobs. Now, the vice president and I are determined to go still further, opening America and all the world to still greater trade and economic growth. This past week, we saw the implementing legislation for the U.S.-Canada Free Trade Agreement move closer to final congressional approval. And Congress has passed a trade bill, one that more closely reflects George Bush's and my emphasis on world trade that is both free and, yes, fair. So you see, while the leadership of the other party have been talking, George Bush and I have been hard at work putting into practice the ideals you believe in. The ideals that at our heart, America has always stood for. Strong defenses, low taxes and limited government, compassion and fair play like that embodied in the Fair Housing Bill. Faith in our future and an openness to the rest of the world has demonstrated in our trade legislation. And yes, those are just the ideals you'll hear us Republicans rededicating ourselves to this coming week in New Orleans. You know, I'll be addressing the Republican Convention on Monday, the opening night, and taking an active role in the coming campaign. But even so, my name won't appear on any ballot this fall. What's at stake for me in this election is my love for America and my dreams for her future. And that's what my support for Vice President Bush comes down to. You see, George Bush understands that the question for America today is not what's different, but what's next. Until next week, thanks for listening and God bless you.


Morning, son. Thanks, love. So I hear you're having trouble with your FIFA career. Let's get cracking. Right, here you go. Most important thing, three, pin back four, and then you move from there. Oh, no. If he can't go that way, he spins in that way. Get him! Simple. Classic offside trap. That's your last defender to solve. There he comes to catch up. He's the attacker. What is that? That's the attacker? Are you listening? I'll tell you what, what about big man up top? He's not going to be doing that on a wet and windy night in Stoke-A-Z. Yeah, two sugars.  Sorry, love. Just three more of those and we'll be level. Son, it's your center house. They need to be knocking 10 bells of... Pause it. I'll be back. Ah, champion. Cheers, mate. What? I'm working for Moon.


A local artist has brought his ceramic and mixed arts work to Brainerd in a new exhibit at the Crossing Arts Alliance. The exhibit features the work of Pine River's Cyrus Swan as he combines the disciplines of function, domestic installations and wall art through his ceramic pieces, paintings and other art forms. Lisa Jordan of the Crossing Arts Alliance says that by combining these different installations, Swan's unique work cannot be defined by one medium. This show features a variety of his works from domestic installations to wall art to the pottery that he's known for and it's a beautiful and strong body of work and we're just thrilled to have it here. The exhibit runs through March 3rd at the Crossing Arts Alliance in downtown Brainerd. If you enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax deductible contribution to Lakeland PBS.


But yeah, so on today's call, we're going to check in on membership and recruitment. Oh my goodness. On phone.  And so, does that sound good? Um, and so first, if we want to review and approve the minutes from January 4th and January 18th, I think those were the most recent ones that we have minutes for a different world. Jeremy Bode we learn her all Helen Conn. Right. Well, I guess I'm the only one who was there. All second design. Sorry. Before we take any votes, just because of the committee composition, it appears that there are three vacancies.  Great. Okay. And so if that's the case, then you do not have a quorum. Okay, so it's of the total seats, not of the total participants. Correct. Okay. Um, Okay, so we will probably never ever again have a quorum. Well, that was the first thing on our agenda was just of talking about recruitment and membership. And so we, I've, I've had a couple of conversations with folks who maybe want to join, but I haven't heard anything that they've applied or that they're, they've been approved or I don't know what city council has looked at any applications or if there have been any applications. I can certainly check in with Mary to see what we have on file. I am not aware of anybody at this point that has applied, although I'm certainly happy to check and come back with that. Cool. Thanks. All right. How many people are we trying to recruit in order to get to a quorum at this point. We need to get okay. Right. There's three. Yeah, so based on the website, that's what it says. I do want to take a look back through our records. We are really reviewing committee membership and trying to streamline process in terms of, you know, all the things that, you know, this is dealing with recruitment retention, making sure that the terms are synced up, you know, making sure that we can get a really short things up and make sure that the process is really working. And so that being said, the only thing that I would want to do is just take a look back through the file and not necessarily rely explicitly on the website but based on what I can see here, that's what it is. The three seats. Well, yeah, for a total of eight. How is the recruitment been going for other folks anything to note. I sent out, I talked to Tom McCone I think I'm right. Yeah, he would mention it to his book group. I haven't heard from him and I don't know if you have. Anybody associate I don't know anybody on that. I mean, he didn't give me names. He just said he would bring it to his group and so share that around. I did send out one letter to another person that I know of, but I don't know personally and did not get any response at all. So, I guess that means no interest, but I mean, I reached out directly to two people from the community that I know and neither was is available right now to add anything on their plate. And I'll keep thinking about it. And I'm also recruiting for our advisory board because we're low on folks there so I've got competing interests, but I'm trying to think specifically about folks who would, you know, for this because it's such a specific, specific work. So I'm trying to think differently about those two ways that I'm recruiting and the people that I'm looking for. For example, and maybe this will be helpful to hear. I met with the Waterbury town manager and he is is hooked me up with somebody that he that will likely join our cab. So I'm going to go to like around in the other towns that we serve to get representation there so I'll think more focused around Montpelier specifically for C. I should, I should remind us all that the by the by laws, I guess, do not require a person to live in Montpelier to be on a Montpelier committee isn't that correct. Yeah, and I got two folks who I'm recruiting in Berlin and Barry so. Okay. Yeah. And we've had folks on the committee before outside the city. So, it's great. All right. Sweet. It would be sweeter if we had some results. We could take minutes. Okay. And so Kelly, can we dive into the stuff from you have just like the training for the city, the website, the city committee application update and stipends. Yeah, so taking it from the top with D I specific training that's being offered right now is something actually through Carol's office that has been opened up to city staff and leadership. If we could always share the details of that training that would be good and then from there it'd be really sort of figuring out if we wanted to focus maybe a training on a topic within D I or, you know, maybe do another session of this training. And who are you doing it with again I'm sorry. Yeah, Carol if you want to provide the details that would be really awesome. My name is Shane Moliere, and she lives in St. Johnsbury and the curriculum is racial literacy, and it's based on three books. So, I don't know if we're reading all three of the books or if she's I think she's going to take pieces of the three books because she said that we know like we're not reading one and then discussing it over a couple of sessions but it's eight sessions once a month on Thursdays in person from 530 to 730 at City Hall. Racial literacy is is what it is and I can share that because I thought of offering it here too we have three spots available right now. We have I think 10 between staff and volunteers we have like 10 folks registered and so there are already a couple people from the public and other departments that have signed up with us so I'm completely open to that we can take 18. And so I want to fill all the spots and even have a wait list. So, and I've told people that if they anticipate they might miss one or two sessions, whatever I just want to I just want to get all 18 spots filled so I'll share that with you. The syllabus is actually pretty vague like each of this she does list each of the sessions sessions in the syllabus but it's, it's basically, there's a reading and we're going to discuss the reading from the prior class. So, you know, so I'm not I, yeah, and I, you know, I don't know her work well but she was recommended by another CJC director and St. Johnsbury so that's what we're doing and I felt a little bit under the gun to spend the money because it has to be spent by the end of June. So, any of you who want to join, let me know I'll put you on the list and I'm going to. It's next week starts next week on Thursday. And so is was this just kind of made available as an option to staff is that how we get people. Yeah, a couple of weeks ago or maybe it was last week Kelly I can't remember when I sent it because my schedule has been like, I'm insanely busy. I can't remember when I sent it but I did open it up to, to other departments. And already, and it got also it started it started in your department and then you open. Yeah, so we got, we got additional money in fiscal year 23 from the Department of Corrections $5,000 specifically to do this work. You know, and there were and there were no guidelines on how to use the money. So, you know, other CJCs are doing different work, somebody is, you know, doing some work specifically around their strategic plan and, you know, anyway, so I felt like this would be good for I wanted something that was going to be directed to our volunteers and staff would benefit from then realizing that, you know, I think people also, and I get this are a little burned out on the topic right now and so I'm appreciative that we have as many spots filled as we do for staff three of the staff are doing it and Kia is not going to do it because she's a black woman and wouldn't be appropriate for her to do this particular training. So I left it up to her to decide if she wanted to participate. But yeah, I, that's what it is and I'll share the syllabus and her bio again with this group and then again with with the city so we can make sure we fill the spots. I wonder if there are things that we could do to make it just to encourage city staff to do this. I don't know if you could like, let them do it on a work time or. Well, it's it. I mean, I know I know it's not scheduled during work time but like if somebody could come in two hours late that that morning. Do it. Yeah, I mean I'm assuming that I'm assuming that my staff is being paid to do it like I would think that it would be its professional development. So I would assume Kelly correct me if I'm wrong but anybody wants to take it that's what they would do. Oh yeah for sure I mean so if they took it in the evening hours they would get comped for that time. Oh that's great. Good. Yeah, that doesn't happen where I work. Yeah, it is a really nice benefit of the city that we do offer comp time, especially in these kinds of situations. Oh great. Okay. Can you say Carol that it's in person only it's not being done on zoom. Correct. Yeah she insisted on that I asked if if we could even do a hybrid and she said no so going with it. Is it available for committees and then like committees can use stipends to be able to participate so yeah I'm like wondering if we should circle back to everyone that has reached out to us for trainings from other boards and offer this so. Sure. I mean again there's only a few spots left and it starts next week and but and the other thing was that I wasn't sure we would be able to afford all of the books it's about $700 books. I didn't want anybody to feel like the buying the books was a barrier getting the books was a barrier so she waved to her consulting fee of $500 and so we're able to work it out to buy all of the books, most of them from through bear pond to use somebody local so the books are available. People can pick them up here in the office if we're here. Otherwise, you know, they'll get them at the first session. Okay. So we're going to provide snacks at everyone to because 530 people are going to want snacks. No that's great. That's really important. Yeah. I would have loved if we could have offered childcare. Also, so Kelly and I have had some some conversations about the stipends so that's something that I would love to keep talking about changing the wording on how the stipends are distributed and how they can be used for. So, should we skip down to that one yeah any other thoughts questions on the training. Yeah I guess I'm just before actually before moving on I'm just like because there are like, I don't like 100 people who work for the city and it's like, if there's 10 spots feel yeah just like knowing that there was more full staff training that then everyone wasn't able to get involved. Yeah, I don't know why that never mind. Well, if I might, I'm curious about this myself. So yes so there are about 120, 123 full time permanent employees with the city. And you know I think if this is a goal that we have, or that the committee has to have staff get training. And then we should strategize about that. Yeah. And so if you know what I was thinking and maybe you might consider this as a, you know, an option and then we can come up with other options for sure I like options is that you know maybe perhaps this is kind of a pilot and so we're using that $5,000 as a seed, which is really nice and then we're leveraging that if this this program works well then maybe perhaps it is something that we roll out to city staff. And then we do other sessions. You know, either with the same instructor or of a similar nature, so that it becomes a series, instead of a one time thing. So then, you know it's kind of ongoing and we are starting to kind of fold city staff and because I do think it is really important. And I think based on, you know, sort of the work that we've already done around this. You know, with the group. Discourse, I was like it's coming to me it's going to get there there it is creative discourse. So with that group I you know I want to be able to at some point pick up where we left off and really evaluate that and think about okay. So what are the next steps, you know what do we need to do and you know I think because the nature of this work it's an ongoing conversation. And you know we need to keep that going and so I would like to keep that going for city staff. I do think that there's an opportunity here to maybe look at this in the lens of a pilot and then you know maybe keep it rolling forward and then we the strategy piece would be thinking about you know whether or not we would make this, you know requirement or some sort of proportional goal of city staff to be trained up in this. So that would be something for the committee to consider and recommend, but I think from the city's perspective. I'm really interested to see how this goes that then we can kind of maybe implement future planning around it. When fast Carol how many sessions all together. Eight. So it's once a month until December. Which you know I, at first I thought oh maybe we want to do it twice a month and speed it up but I think once a month is good because it gives you time to digest and you know really live it. And I agree with Kelly like I really think there should be, even once this one is going like we should be starting some other effort and making something available to folks in the city. And I say that because people are in all different places in terms of how they feel about even acknowledging that racism and exists and that white supremacy is an issue right so I think that trying and trying different ways of helping people think about it and have the conversation is really important and that's the way that we're going to actually get to some to some change that ongoing effort. You know our full time jobs it's like, Oh, do I need to do this thing this is my professional development and, you know, I recognize the burnout factor on on that too and I hear that from my staff, you know like, I just need a break from having to think about how I'm being more inclusive and being more diverse and, you know, recognizing my own whiteness and all the biases I bring to the table like I hear that. And I feel it too. Yeah, I guess I'm like, is it clear that this is this is targeting for white folks and like dealing with their way fragility and stuff and in the, in the sessions or racial literacy so it's, you know, really just having an understanding about what what it means. Cool. Okay, thanks all. Yeah, something like I don't know if there's more to talk about for that, or if we should go on to talking about statements. Yeah, I mean we can bring it back to your meeting just to kind of be to talk about how it's going and being to think about next steps. I have a question related to this. The police review committee also addressed the question of training, race training stuff like that do you know what's going on over there. Kelly, what are they, they just monitor that themselves. Like for police staff. I don't know of any specific trainings but I can certainly check out with Chief Gordon and see, you know what they've got going on. Because I do know that they have done a lot of work but I am not sure about specific trainings. I mean one of the questions that comes up for me is, and mostly because he's, you know, there are three who are still at the Academy right now is what's the Academy doing like I feel like that would should be a part of the Academy is putting more emphasis on for law enforcement and I have no idea that's like trying to find out what that curriculum looks like is. It's kind of like trying to find out what driver's ed curriculum is all about. It's, it's tough. I mean, when I was doing I was on the police review committee and when I was doing my research I could get the number of hours that they devoted to thing but never the curriculum itself maybe occasionally a paragraph but not. I don't know why it's not more transparent it's like, what. Maybe that nobody has asked it to be, you know, could you know when how much more more would they be willing to offer in terms of, you know what what topics or what what's the reading list or something like that. I think just asking this is because a starting point. I think who asks makes a difference to just saying. Because if it's me they're like, whatever. Well, I can sift through my notes and try to find out the person with whom I had a conversation about the Academy and ask that question. Yeah, great. My notes are a pile of papers, it's just, you know, so it's an archeological expedition but I'll see if I can. So you'll either ask or tell us who to ask. Yes, as it comes from the city council or from something else. Great. Okay. You want to take on the next thing on the list. So the city website has been updated and actually, if you don't mind, I think I can do this. I'll share my screen and just show you what the webpage looks like right now. And see we think and see if that's something, you know, if there are the changes that you'd like to see. Cool. Okay. Okay, so here we go. We have been kind of combing through each committee sites and so see Jack included. And so what the question at hand was around membership. So we've got that reflected here. And then we've got the meeting schedule up above. And then just a little bit about the committee, such as the mission and current work. I want to ask a question about that, that meeting schedule section. Sure. I went there this morning to try to find the link. And it didn't really work. Didn't really, didn't really work. Okay. Yeah. It was like a bunch of cooking in it. And then I gave up and finally just signed into my city email to get it from. Yeah, that's super helpful. I mean, we are trying to streamline that so that it's not. So it is seamless. And in this particular instance, it wasn't so things. I'll look into that for sure. And then for the members, it's yeah that Helen and Jeremy are no longer on the committee. Okay. All right, right. That's right. Okay. But, you know, aside from, from my, my little trouble this morning, I think it looks really good. I think it has, it's a nice concise description of what the committee does tonight, the way it's laid out with the columns, it's really easy to see the key information without too much scrolling. So I think it looks really good. Thank you. And I will definitely update that for sure. So we can kind of flip back as long as everybody else is, you know, good with what this looks like aside from the membership. Sorry about that. I'll definitely make sure that following this meeting today. We get that updated. So I'm going to stop my share because there's it's pretty straight ahead. I'm going to keep it here. Okay. Okay. I mean, I think the next thing is the committee application and it looks like that hasn't been updated yet. I just like over to it and so yeah I've just I don't know if there's anything does that has been changed if you if you want to share through that. So there is nothing that has been changed. We have been internally talking about how to change that. Honestly, there's no issue with changing it it's just that we haven't gotten to it yet. And so that's where we're at I do want to make sure that we do. And so this week is a little bit slower so I'm hoping to make some of those changes based on the committee meeting notes. And then hopefully next time I'll report back that here it is it's been updated because that's the goal. So that I did receive and talking it through with staff is that, you know, if we don't ask about education, for instance, you know, then will we get a person's background but I don't know that that necessarily matters but I wanted to pose that to the group because particularly when they would be answering those questions they would share, not only their interests but why, you know, or the or their background. But we also want to encourage a diverse background. And so I just wanted to touch base with that and make sure that that's still, you know what the sentiment is. What was the suggestion to to leave that off entirely. Yes. I think I think we felt really strongly about that because because we want people from with lived experience and from marginalized populations and that can be intimidating, you know, to folks and I, I don't think it's necessary for the work that we're doing. And just to say like the language that we decided on was what talent skills, education credentials and experience you bring to this border committee so I think it's still prompting people to share that if it's relevant. Great. Yeah. Yeah. No, and that's all I really was wanting was confirmation of like, yep, it's still kind of in there it's just not the thing. It's on its own like separate. Yeah, question. Okay, cool. We can work on that and Carol we can work together on just making sure that that happens. Okay, so then the next thing. On that responsibility to me. Kelly. Thanks. Mostly Carol just a second set of eyes. Yeah, thanks to make sure that you know we're getting this done. Don't worry. And just to say I think like we proposed removing some questions at the top and just wanting to see if the legal was okay with those two, like that that could be an additional step of just like we proposed removing the question I related to any personal professional or business pursuits that would affect your ability to make fair and impartial recommendations as a member of a city advisory board or committee do you have any pending litigation against the committee, having to be like a required question altogether, but just yeah recognizing like you don't have to be a voter or a resident of a certain age. And just saying like are you involved in any personal professional or business pursuit that would affect your ability to make fair and impartial recommendations as a member of a city advisory board or committee.  And, even though we don't need that for people to participate so, but just wanting to make sure that legal was okay with that before making those changes to. Okay, yeah, no we can we can double check. Great. Sorry. Yeah, thank you. No, all good. So the next item was around the stipends. And so, Carol and I have talked a little bit about this and I think, you know, the, you know, I don't see why we wouldn't come up with a recommendation to open up the stipends stipends especially if it's related to city business. I don't know if we want to open it up further for conversation here. One of the things that I brought up was, you know, I love the idea that we can give somebody $50 so that they can afford to pay somebody to do childcare but how much easier would it be. If we were able to hire a couple of childcare professionals to be at meetings where we knew we had folks who would be where it would be difficult for them to attend the meeting with, you know, it would be much easier if we had a room and two people and, you know, and three different families could bring their kids. They'd have snacks, they'd have toys for them, whatever, during that meeting time in the same building. So, you know, to make that an option instead and use the stipend to figure out how much that might cost and then it'd be more of a process to figure out which at which meetings do we need to provide the childcare and then, you know, have somebody who's kind of on call that when she says, yes, I'm going to need it tonight, then, you know, they can show up and make it happen. I mean, I did this when I was working in the Moyle County doing substance use prevention and it worked and it worked great and this young woman actually was, she would bring her daughter with her and that's the way she could do it and she wanted to earn the extra money and it was fantastic and really appreciated by the folks that were showing up with their kids. So, if we're going to provide childcare, do we not need to be concerned about liability? You know, well, and that we're, we already are a licensed childcare provider at the city is but like, but not, I don't know exactly what, you know, what part of the city is and how that would work but we're not licensed for City Hall to be a childcare providing so in this case, we would have to have the staff do it it couldn't just be, you know, somebody's teenage daughter coming in to do it has to be. So Arnie would have to be involved. Yeah, Arnie would like would need to be involved in helping us provide that is what you're saying. Yeah, I'm saying there's a lot involved that probably costs more than we have in the stipend budget, ultimately. Not saying we shouldn't do it but a lot of considerations. What about doing it as a kind of subcontract to good beginnings. I don't think they're a childcare provider. Yes, they are. I think they do some. Well, I don't, I don't, I shouldn't speak, say something specific I know they have programs for bringing kids together at where they where they are. And maybe we can incorporate. I mean, I think one of the things that we might want to do too is just poll the existing members that we have. And then as we're bringing new committee members on, you know, asking the question. What, you know, does it work for you to get the $50 stipend so that you can get child, do you need childcare, you know, just to have a better sense of, of how many people actually need childcare. I mean, I think just, yeah, going back to what Carrie was saying, and I think what we were hearing from Cameron this last, you know, time we talked about this too is like we went with the stipends because it gives parents a lot more options and because this city has a lot of licensing things happening already around childcare, adding in a different thing. Like they wouldn't yet the physical building they wouldn't be able to do it in so then kids would have to go to a different built like there was it just like added a whole lot more problems and that like because meetings happen every hour of every day that like it makes. Yeah, the stipend was more of the lowest common denominator that would be able to support the most number of people and people could hire their their own folks but I get so I do want to like make sure we can go back to talking about that but I guess like yet can people use that stipend to pay for the city child care or people can't just like drop their kids off at the city's provided childcare it's like you have to be in the system already to be in the program yeah. Okay. And who are you saying that was already. I don't know. Arnie Arnie who's the rec director. Okay. I don't know that person. The other point that I brought up with Kelly and I think I'm brought it up here too is that right now for some reason. The decision was made a million years ago that Community Justice Center volunteers are not city appointed volunteers and so we're not eligible for the stipend and and you know our folks I think should be eligible for the stipend so I don't know what I mean but if that's just a language change, then let's make the language changed around around that, and then the same way I don't think we're going to have many folks who are existing volunteers taking advantage of it but I think it would really help us with recruiting people from marginalized populations lived experience and young families to be able to attend and want to participate. So, I would, that's my pitch is to not exclude our volunteers who put in hundreds of our I mean our teams meet three people once a week, and we've got like six Cosa teams right now right so they put in a lot of hours for the city, and, and they're not eligible for that stipend, and then our you know we've got five panels plus a youth panel, I think it'll really help us with the youth panel to so and that's an important piece of the work that we're doing that it's difficult to, it's difficult to recruit and retain teenagers and young adults on our youth panels and I think if they were provided with this type and they'd have more incentive to participate. And it might all go just toward that I mean I, you know, depending on who we get but I would like to make it available. I think yeah I think there's like overall lots of interest in expanding the stipends projects for on, you know, for for the country club road public hearings for other committees I may not be eligible like there's like a definitely a couple buckets of things that are not just committees and board meetings but for other like specific public meetings or for public meetings more broadly. So just like think of like, what, what would the language change be that the city would need to approve in order to make that more available for participants. Do we have any sense or who who would know and how to make that proposal. That sounds like something Kelly. And if that's the if that's the committee would like to do I'm happy to bring something back for the next meeting as sort of a starting point to consider language. I think yeah, really helpful. Yeah, sure. No problem. There are other buckets that we want to make sure get included to be like participating in public hearings and public processes.  I think Kerry, you had previously talked about like canvassers for the country club road project. One it feels like the timing of that is, you know, I think that was proposed a few months ago and now things are kind of shugging along so that may be less relevant but like yeah are there any other buckets of work that we want to make sure are included. I wonder about it. I mean things like providing food at a meeting, you know, not just stipends but like at those country club road gatherings if there's a little food it just makes it so much more welcoming and inviting. And I think if we there are some people who are going to need their time coverage to come to something like that, but there's a whole lot of other people for whom that's not the barrier the barrier is more just feeling like this isn't really for me it's not my scene I don't belong and not part of this group. And so anything that we can do to break down those walls a little bit so sometimes just providing food or having a different time of day or in a different location all that kind of stuff. But so if we could use some of the money in ways other than just direct payments to people that might open it up a little bit I'm just I'm wondering if we can just build in some flexibility to the language of how we use it so that then we can decide as we go. Yeah, that kind of was my point too. And I think, you know, doing, doing equity training in parallel to to these efforts, you know that I think helps other departments and other committees and people who are on those committees, just be thinking about like how we can better help people feel like they belong in that they, they can participate. And personally I think we have to really look at ourselves, and when we're making decisions about how we design something. That's what makes a big difference. Thank you Kelly for taking that on. I have a question about recruitment and all how in how to get the word out. I don't know if any of us or any city committees participate in the do good festival at up at National Life every year. Maybe planning on participating and just having a table for, you know, not all the not all the city committees necessary but there could be one table that list, you know that has information about it there. It's a great way to get, you know, people who are attending a fair, basically. And that's a lot of people in the city as I, as I understand it. I went to one of them, but I was away last year. I understand that the CJC used to do it and you know I came in in 2020 so we haven't haven't done it but it's something that I thought about the in the last couple weeks to get the information so we have a presence there. So, yeah, I think it's a great idea to have a presence at the do good festival.  We don't need panel volunteers. We have people that just show up and want to be panel volunteers, which is great, but our advisory board and, you know, for other committees for the city, I think it's a great idea. If we're going to do that then we should get started find out what the date is, and I just looked it up. Okay. And again, I think it may be, you know, more effective than trying to round up the committee chairs of all of the committees and have each one have a table but to try to consolidate it so that, you know, there's somebody there who can hand out. You know, just information. If it's nothing more than the kind of narrative that Kelly's put up on our, you know, for each page. Each committee have a page and sign up sheets that can then be distributed back to committee chairs or whatever wherever they need to go but I think it involves fewer people and it can, you know, consolidates the space and also the focus. I think I'm maybe we'll just skip down to our last agenda item city celebrations and recognitions. I'm just going to report back from Michael's initial research. Okay, I'm going to ask for Kelly's getting all of this stuff but it took us a while to connect but we finally had a conversation about it. So Kelly, maybe I'll, I'll, I'll take a stab at it and you'll correct me or get me back on track. What what appears to have happened in this situation is that it was a it was not necessarily a public event. It was an event by the city garage folks. For their staff and they invited city council as I understand it but I don't think. I don't think it was a kind of anybody come. And as Kelly described it as we were talking to really is is imparted an opportunity for the staff there to sort of have a staff event. And was not meant to be anything more than really a way of consolidating or sort of making them feel part of a small community. So I don't know that getting too much deeper into this raises questions that we don't, we don't want to answer we don't want to ask about how departments, you know, sort of try to create communities of their members. And if we start sort of putting clamps down on things like that. I think that maybe, you know, we're asking for more trouble. These are not as Kelly pointed out they're not necessarily public. They're not related to, you know, I guess they're not necessarily related to religious or ethnic identities but in the case of the St. Patrick's one well it was kind of, you could call it a spring spring spring or something like that. So I don't know where we go from here. I mean I think it really opens a big can of worms that that would be hard to sort of sort to separate and sort out. If I might.  Because I don't want to look away from it in terms of, you know, not having the conversation or not giving it the space that it needs. You know, I will share and just based on the conversation that Michael and I had, you know, we, we don't have a city policy at this point for these kinds of events. And this one in particular, you know, I would say that it's less about St. Patrick's Day than it is about the DPW folks sponsoring a citywide luncheon for staff. And so it's not public in nature.  So, you know, I do think that we've got to at least talk about that a little bit. And you know, maybe, I mean, there's kind of two things here that I've been kind of trying to think about a little bit more and trying to get more information about what the intent was in the conversation. And because we do want to be inclusive, we want to make sure that everybody feels welcome and invited to attend these events. And for some reason, that wasn't the case, which it kind of seems like it is here. Then, you know, I want to really understand that and make sure that we can be. So if that means that the St. Patrick's Day designation is off-clinic, then maybe perhaps we, the city staff should be evaluating that. You know, it is something that the DPW garage does take pride in because it's something that they do for the city. It's something that it's, and it's actually probably one of the only events that we have, and especially in light of the pandemic, that people have kind of come back to.  Because, you know, that's kind of how these things continue, right? So it's kind of being in the spot where it's like, okay, well, what, you know, what recommendations would we kind of put on the table for this? And I think, you know, the sort of two minds like one is that it's really about the people and getting together for a meal. And so it doesn't necessarily have to be associated with St. Patrick's Day, per se. And then secondly, if there were another event that somebody wanted to put forward to be recognized or to have an event around that would be city supportive, then we should also talk about that too. Like, well, what does that mean? What would the sort of criteria be? Like how can we make sure that we are inclusive? Because I think that's also in this kind of, you know, like the point is that we do want people to feel welcome and to be able to participate in all city events, especially city staff. And so we want to be able to break down those, you know, barriers, if possible. So I think that's, you know, and so it's a Michael and I did talk about it and, you know, I want to make sure that we're, you know, really considering this because I don't want it to seem like we're not. We have an item on the table that needs consideration and so kind of leave it to the committee there, but I wanted to just share those thoughts. And I want to follow up because I had after having conversation with Kelly, I did some follow up with Kia who's the one who raised it and she had a couple of questions one was how many people of color are actually employed by the city. And I told her I can think of one, which is her. And she raised it because what what came up for her and she also made the point to me yesterday in our staff meeting that that there was no acknowledgement, even a black history month by the city, right. So when she saw the St. Patrick's Day thing happening. That's what kind of triggered her. And she made the point to me.  And that it's not that she didn't feel welcome going to a St. Patrick's Day thing but it's really just the overall question of are we having the conversation about what it means. I noticed that there isn't a Christmas party for all of the city staff every year right and maybe that's because of COVID I don't know but there isn't and there aren't other. So it's interesting that you know what do we which holidays do we choose to acknowledge for city staff with you know which are the ones that we get where we get the day off that makes a difference to because we're not acknowledging even the Jewish holidays right. So we just skip over those there are no Jewish holidays that are an official holiday for city staff but we do celebrate Christmas and New Year's and Easter and all of that sort of thing. So that was the point of her conversation and I am fully in agreement with Kelly that we do need to keep having the conversation around this, not as a way to squash what they're doing with DPW. And I think it's, I made the analogy to if I go if I say we're going out to lunch or we're going bowling which we did as staff. That's the same kind of thing I think where that originated was a way for them to get together and then they opened it up to the rest of the staff which is an opportunity for a citywide thing and it just happens to be connected to St. Patrick's Day for whatever reason maybe they have a significant number of Irish people with people who celebrate St. Patrick's Day or it's March because it's the beginning of spring I don't know, but I think we really do need to address it and the other point that Kia made was that, you know, because it's hard, and it might, it might be uncomfortable for people to talk about doesn't mean we shouldn't be talking about it. And I think like having it be just not a public event and just city is almost like more reason to talk about it and so, and to bring it up and I think yeah just to reiterate, I would like to say in a different way what I think I've already been hearing is like, yeah I don't, as the city is going back to having more events and like recognizing like days on the calendar and having community building opportunities of being mindful that of what those are you know and that this is kind of an opportunity to make sure that it's not just celebrations of like white Christian days on the calendar and I think right if, if that means that you know yeah there's like a lot of folks with Irish heritage at DPW like let's like yeah I don't think it's any ask of like let's like not do historically like like loved and like recognized events but it's more about like add like how can that be additive to it you know and so right if there's like, yeah a lot of folks of Chinese descent in the senior center let's do a like, let's you know, how can we support them of having a Chinese New Year celebration that can be opened up to everyone. But I think we all yeah we want to be really careful to not say what we can't have the DPW have a St. Patrick's Day event and we need to make sure that it changes to being another event that people don't have any experience or history or like recognition I don't think that's by any means the ask here but that I'm just like being more mindful of it and I do want to parse it out from the other point that you're making Carol of like, I think that the question about like what days people get off and I, and I think that's like that that's a different that's I think this is more like I think what events does the city recognize or what like days on the calendar does the city recognize is more, even if it's not even if it's just public facing to other city staff, it is that that's that feels different to me I'm asking for other, you know, additional holidays to be celebrated on the calendar right and if we were like 20% of people on staff all celebrated Chinese New Year and we didn't get takes Chinese New Year off that would be a different conversation but I don't as a predominantly white Christian, you know, city and city staff, like wanting to be mindful that asking for other holidays and things off is a is more of an HR issue I think then recognizing other like cultural to historic days on the calendar, you know, like being more, being more mindful of that and so I I'm not suggesting that by any means I'm just saying that I mean if you look at the roots of why those are the holidays celebrate right there's a reason that those are the ones that are celebrated and, you know, turning that ship is like that be a huge project right like that because it's their state holidays and federal holidays and all that. I just but talking about it and being mindful of it I think is in part the point that key is making is let's let's keep having the conversation about what what are we at what can we add and how and even if it's not another holiday that we add. I'm just talking about it and is the city going to say like yeah remember it's black history month and then if you look at the calendar there's like a celebration month there's something in every month of the year right like this domestic violence month and in April and sexual violence month and I think October. So like there's all these. It's a big, it's a big question. And I'm not advocating that we change the holidays but just to be mindful of like what we acknowledge as a what like who like maybe as like a starting point like who manages like the social media account and recognizes, you know, are I was just having a very similar line of thinking. So we are very fortunate to have Evelyn Prem start full time with the city as like yesterday. Oh wow. So she is our communications coordinator and is responsible for our social media presence. And we are also working through a lot of projects for her. And so this one in particular. We don't, we don't have a strategy at this point, but we should. And we should talk about that. And so I think if that's the outcome here like that's really good. And so I think we can, you know, certainly you're just thinking about black history month it is kind of like oh yeah we didn't, we didn't do anything. You know, it's like, yep, acknowledging that and then trying to figure out a way to make sure that that doesn't happen again but then also making sure that it's not just sort of another thing on the calendar because it's important, you know, and I think that you know it should be recognized. So, certainly I can work with Evelyn on maybe thinking about a strategy around these sorts of things. And then the other thing that I was thinking about is, you know, through HR, we may especially if we want to be more diverse which we absolutely do is we should be monitoring, you know, the composition of city staff and we do have a couple more people of color, but they're sort of spread out throughout the city and there's only, you know, really a few that would probably identify that way. So, but I also think that, you know, making sure that for those city employees, you know, they know that they have a place here and that, you know, they're in a background their, you know, being is recognized, just like, you know, the things that we take for granted, like St. Patrick's Day. Yeah. So I have to go because I have another meeting at nine. So thank you for the conversation and I will see you all next time. And then yeah, I think this is bringing up a different question for me too of like how to create caucus spaces for people of color, queer people who work for the city and just wanting to, you know, like that was something we started with creative discourse that didn't continue on during the pandemic so I'm going to flag that for future conversation as well. So, okay, thanks all I also have to hop so. Thank you. Thanks to you guys.


I am Chris Sackney. The visit to schools commenced at the Camille Henry Memorial, where several primary schools congregated to welcome the royal couple, with a small ceremony which included a few performances from students. The Earl and Countess of Wessex were elated to meet with the boys and girls of the various schools present after the ceremony, prompting much conversation, laughter, and a picture-perfect moments with the little ones. Prince Edward, who is the fourth offspring of Queen Elizabeth II, and the youngest brother of Prince Charles, was quite thankful for the warm reception from the gathering of primary school students. Thank you so much for the wonderful welcome today, it's an absolute pleasure to be here, and a particular thank you to all the performers, to the poem readers, to the dancers, and I suspect it was the drummers that won it today, but very good, excellent, really well done, listen, and we wish you all the very best for the future, because you boys and girls, you are our futures, and so it is really important that we listen and support you as you grow up, because you're going to be here one day leading this country. Parliamentary Secretary Senator Honourable Pauline Antoine Prosper spoke on behalf of the Minister of Education Honourable Sean Edward, who was unable to attend the ceremony because of his participation in the 2022-2023 budget debate. Senator Antoine Prosper expressed the ministry's gratitude for the visit of the Royal Corporal, saying these experiences will only help to deepen international relations with Britain. And at the same time, add to the rich cultural heritage that has molded us into a people whose values allow us to thrive as an independent nation. To you students, this is a moment that you will treasure for your entire lifetime. And I am Daniel Dubois. The talk continued to the Patricia James Secondary School, where Prince Edward and Princess Sophie, Earl and Countess of Wessex, were joined by secondary school students from various schools from District 2. Ministry of Education's Permanent Secretary Michelle Charles welcomed the Royal Couple to the brief ceremony held in their honour, citing the ministry's gratitude to host representatives from the Crown, as the adverse effects of the COVID-19 pandemic have lessened over the past few weeks. I am elated that we at the Ministry of Education are in a position to host this event, as we can all understand the impact that the COVID-19 pandemic continues to have on our education system. It is thrilling, however, that we are able to take pause from the usual demands and challenges associated with work and school life and gather to commemorate this auspicious occasion. This of course speaks to our resilience as a Caribbean people. We strive and we overcome, and it is with this tenacity of spirit we stand as proud St. Louisian citizens, welcoming all of you here within our midst. Students got the opportunity to interact and engage the Royals in a brief question and answer session, covering themes such as women equality, climate change and more inclusivity among minority groups, students are eager and enthusiastic. We all have a lot to learn from each other. So in the Western world, in the Northern Hemisphere, we have as much to learn from our Caribbean sisters as we do from each other. So in empowering Caribbean women to have more places on these international fora gives you a voice and gives you a chance to impact your own countries as well as impact positively ours. The Royals ended the tour of St. Lucia and indeed the tour of the Caribbean with a tree planting exercise at the Pigeon Island National Landmark with a group of students from the Bishop Charles Gache R.C. Primary School, members of student environmental clubs and the National Trust of St. Lucia.


The usual narrative about Katrina recovery is FEMA came in late, and we know all these stories have been messing up. What is interesting is people don't know what worked, right? It's much easier and obvious what didn't work, and the stories of the good stuff that happened are harder. You got to dig them out a little bit. It's a motivation for research too, which is you guys think you know what's going on here, but using this framework and this kind of evidence, we can tell a different story. Walmart as hero, right, that sentence right there is enough to turn people's worldviews upside down. When the storm hits, they have a major American city under water, and so the big question was how are you going to get water and food and clean up equipment to people in the aftermath of the storm? The first question that people ask coming at it from the kind of perspective that a Mercado scholar would do is what's the information, what's the incentives? Walmart's great skill is inventory management. In the 1990s, their ability to speed up inventory management was a measurable part of GDP in some of those years. This is what Walmart does, right? It moves stuff to where it needs to be. Unsurprisingly, companies like Walmart have their own hurricane preparedness protocols, and they were able to immediately start getting supplies into New Orleans and to the places along the Gulf to the east. One of the problems they had was that in a couple cases, FEMA wouldn't let them in. Walmart was sitting there with trucks of water and stuff, and there were these various fights. Agencies like FEMA lack the information, their incentive is to avoid error rather than solve the problem, which are two different things. That lack of information and incentives facing the public sector agency like FEMA is a real problem. Plus, they only deal with these things on rare occasions. It's not like they have a hurricane every single day that they have to respond to. Walmart has supply management issues every single day, so they're really good at this. Something like 110 stores were damaged in the aftermath of the storm. Most of those they had up and running within about 10 days. I also think we can't ignore with Walmart, too, that the management at Walmart sent a very clear message to their employees. Do the right thing, right? I mean, we know you're going to have to make decisions without being able to consult your bosses. One storm assistant manager in Waveland, Mississippi, the store was just flat. It was nothing. And so through the wreckage of the store, she ran a bulldozer through it, kind of scooping up whatever she thought was still usable, and just scooped it into the middle of the parking lot and said to people, you know, come get it. One place they broke in, the manager broke into the pharmacy, raided it for drugs, brought them to a local retirement home. The fact is they're part of those communities. Their employees live there. They have no desire to see those communities go under. So if it means we have to take an economic loss to do right by our neighbors, they're going to do it. And again, it's not that there's not profit considerations here. There's just multiple considerations. It's the idea that the Duke's Commerce thesis, right, that commerce civilizes us. It makes us more peaceful. It makes us treat each other better. For a private sector firm like Walmart, they know what people need after a storm. The classic story I love to tell is they know that the most popular food item is strawberry pop tarts, right? Why strawberry pop tarts?  They don't need to be cooked, strawberry, because that's the least defensive flavor. You know, and they're not perishable. They don't have to heat them up. So they know this kind of stuff. They have profit reasons to know this. So I think the key is local knowledge. That idea, like we saw with Walmart, giving responsibility to lower level employees and recognizing the initiative there until we saw with the Coast Guard. You have with the Coast Guard a very decentralized organization, an organization with a strong culture of initiative in it. They have great relationships with the local people who are along the coast. And so one of the things they were able to do was get local fishermen to bring their boats and do boat rescues. Coast Guard rescued, you know, over 20,000 people and kept a lot of folks alive and did really good work in that process. For me, that's a particular point of pride, is that this research has mattered, right? It's changed the way people think about an important issue. How do people respond? How do they build from the ground up? What information did they have? And that's a very kind of Austrian school point. When we think about the incentives facing the political process, right? Facing the public sector. That's a particularly sort of public choice type insight. Some of the other parts of the project looked at the role of the church or these other, you know, social organizations. And that's a very Bloomington School, Indiana, Ostrom type story. And what's happened since Katrina is that a lot of local area, municipal governments and local disaster management folks have engaged in collaborative ventures with the private sector to at least work them into the protocol process and to recognize their role. But I think the thing that really sets this apart is what we looked for as the evidence to tell the story. We didn't go download a big data set. Let's go look at what people said was happening. What did the actors on the ground have to say? What were they doing? So that meant looking at media reports. That meant doing interviews. That meant getting oral histories. Doing that kind of legwork, that qualitative data type work is a unique thing, I think, to the Mercatus program, to PPE that differentiates our product. And it lets us tell stories that other people can't.


righty, so we have an awesome construction update for you guys today. I think this one's more on Frontier Canada than it is Yukon, but we have some exciting news about Yukon. So as you can see, Yukon Strakers train is loaded with water dummies in the station, and that could only mean one thing. Well, it isn't going to test today, tomorrow, during the rain, but I'm almost a betting man that it's probably going to test next week with the warm weather and sunny days. Next week would be optimal for testing. So here are some super zoomed in shots of the train with water dummies. You can actually see the train in the storage shed as well, loaded with water dummies. And you can see that dive coaster rail or gate as you leave the station. That's all ready to go. And there is an op panel being and booth being constructed on the right side of the track. It is super hard to see in this photo. But they're definitely getting very ready to start testing. So we'll be flying every day we can fly. If there's rain, we won't be able to fly. If it's too windy, we won't be able to fly. But we'll be flying every day we can pause as we can to try and catch the testing, trust me. And luckily, we have a person on our team with a drone that lives right next to the park and can see if there's testing and quickly run over and grab footage. So this is going to be super awesome. We will have testing footage for you. I promise we will do everything in our power. I am in the States next week. That's what's unfortunate. So I will be at Dollywood on Thursday and Friday. Sorry, I'll be at Dollywood on Thursday and I'll be at Carol ones Friday and Saturday. And I have a feeling I'm going to miss testing and that hurts a lot. That really does hurt. I'm hoping they tested on Monday, Tuesday, and I'm still here. So I'll be at the park on Monday, Tuesday. We'll not at the park outside the park flying my drone. Hopefully catching the testing of Yukon Stryker because I would love to see this before I go. But I'm rambling.  Let's get right to the video. So outside of that, there is a lot of digging in the front of Yukon Stryker station area. There's lots of digging over in what I can only assume is Frontier Canada. I'll show you that in a second. But right here in Orbiter, you can see them constructing that path, that new path that's replacing Orbiter. So they're going to be connecting the behemoth midway to the Yukon Stryker midway. And to be honest, that's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. For being able to quickly hop from one BNM to the other. I'm a huge fan of that. So lots of work going on there. Dig Ambulano land. There's trying to think of what else is going on in Yukon Stryker. Again, this is mainly a Frontier Canada update. But over in the Kingswood area, they're still digging up land. I'm not able to make out what they're actually fully doing again. So I do want to let you know any information on the Kingswood area, please take with a grain of salt as I can't make out exactly what they're doing. But again, my guess would be if anything's going to happen there, it's either going to be a permanent haunt structure or it's going to be a restaurant. I know those are wild guesses. The second one a little more wild than the first one. But I would assume that Cedar Faire is looking for permanent haunt structures as they can leave the haunt décor up through the season. And it relieves a lot of that setup time that they have starting in like August or July, whenever they start sending it for Halloween haunt. But over by the vertical loop and the second Imelman, you can see that they are digging up the entire brickwork. Lots of work going on over there. If you're looking at the video carefully, you can actually see them digging holes around Yukon Straker as well. There's just a ton of work going on over there. I can't wait to see what this area looks like. You can tell they're re-retrofitting the entire Frontier Canada area. They just put a new brickwork last season and it's already ripped up. So it'll be super cool to see what's going on with Frontier Canada and their plans. I can't fully make out anything, but it looks like a wood structure is also going up behind the second Imelman. But again, we're flying from a drone really far away from the park. We're super zoomed in. So it looks like we're closer than we are. It is hard to make out what they're doing in this footage, but that is just a guess. So again, anything we say in our drone footage videos is predictions. We have no inside information on Frontier Canada. I wish we did, but we don't. But yeah, super exciting. From the last video, the station work has not changed. As you can see, there is a yellow dye on it. From what I'm hearing, that's actually a wood cure. From what my team was researching, it helps make the wood stronger and then they'll actually stain the wood is from what I'm guessing. So the wood should be stained, which is a little bit of a relief. I wasn't a fan of the color. I was hoping for something darker. But again, that is a prediction as well. Other than that, I'm trying to think if there's anything else Yukon Stryker related around the Q lines being built, you can actually see some cement block down there underneath the brake run. If you look closely, you'll see that whiter gray color, whitish gray color underneath the brake run that looks like it's cement. And yeah, that's all that is Yukon Stryker related. If you keep looking around, you'll see them working around. So I thought I would leave in all the clips, by the way. So when I go flying, I grab about 15 minutes of footage, 15 to 20 minutes of footage. So I've added it down to 10 minutes for you guys, just showing like the work and the machinery moving around them digging. So you guys get a better idea of what they're doing instead of my quick videos. So if you guys feel like you want to stick around and watch the construction crew working, feel free. But this is it for the update on Yukon Stryker. I really appreciate you guys coming and watching these updates all the time. They will be more regular now. So with us flying, trying to catch drone footage and Frontier Canada construction moving rapidly, we are going to start documenting Frontier Canada construction as it looks like it's a lot bigger than we originally thought. There's a lot more work going on. There's crews everywhere if you're watching this footage closely. So stay tuned for all that. We flew today as well. So I'm waiting for the footage to be sent to me, and I'll analyze it for a tomorrow video and see if it's worth it. If there's nothing too much to report on, I won't release the video. But I'm waiting for the footage to see what's going on. I'm hearing there is a crane in the station area. So we'll see what's going on. But thanks for watching guys. Don't forget to hit that like button, subscribe if you haven't, and share this video for others to enjoy. Thanks so much for watching guys. Have a good one. Bye.


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