Good evening, everyone. Can you hear me? Crystal. Yes. Thank you. All right. So good evening. It's 6 p.m. according to my time. So and my name is Marina Julian Joseph. I am the Acting Education Officer for District 1. I'll be your host for this evening's meeting. I want to make an excuse for Mrs. Inosin, the District Education Officer for District 2, who is out on some special leave. So we have to keep her in our prayers as we continue with this session. Okay. I think some Julia, your mic is on. Okay. So this, let me just have to do the welcome and the prayer. So we're going to start with prayer. So let me pray. And before I do so, I would like participants of District 1, District 2, parents and so on. Some of you are signing in with the name of your phone. We'd like that you put a name so we can refer to you by in the event that you ask a question or something and we want to know who we should refer to. So you can change your iPhones, some of the other devices that you have. Just put your name or a name that we can refer to you by. Thank you so much. Okay. Let us pray by the presence of the Lord into this consultation. Heavenly Father, I'd like to thank you for this opportunity, Lord, for us to deliberate on matters pertaining to our students. Sorry about that. Make sure your phones, your mics are off while we pray. I know it's not your fault. So I'll start again. Heavenly Father, I would like to thank you for this evening. I would like to thank you for this opportunity to, for us to deliberate, put it into matters, put it into our special students. I pray that you open our minds, give us the courage, the boldness to understand what is being explained to us and that will get enough clarification so that we'll be able to help our students. Be with the facilitators in a special way that give them the courage also, give them the clarification to assist the educators, the parents, and the community members, the principals who are here so that we can better our education system. In Jesus's name I pray. Amen. Okay. So excuse me, Ms. Joseph, but your mic is muted. Sorry. Did you hear the prayer? How far did, what happened here? It got muted after the mic. Oh, okay. Sorry. So I'll do the welcome. Sorry upon that. Okay. So good evening, everyone. And I said welcome, a special welcome to the facilitators, Dr. Spencer Hernandez and Dr. Edward Kern and all principals, teachers, parents, community members, all educators, everyone special welcome to you. And it is indeed a pleasure to have you here this evening for this very important consultation on special needs education policy and strategy. This is the first of many consultations and feel free to ask as many questions as possible to get all doubts clarified. It is a pleasure to know that actions have been taken to address the needs of our differently abled individuals among us. In the past, it was very difficult in our education system to cater or to attend to these special students. And knowing that a policy has been put in place speaks volume for the growth that is taking place in our education system. So this week one and two educators, parents and community members at large welcome to this consultation. Feel free to participate for this consultation. Sorry, feel free to participate in this consultation for our clarification and betterment. Okay, thank you very much. At this point, I would like to refer you to the facilitators and Ms. or Ms. Edith Emmanuel. Welcome everyone. So let me just refer you to the facilitators and Ms. Emmanuel. Ms. Emmanuel, over to you. Thank you very much, Mistress Julianne Joseph. Good evening, everyone. I would of course like to defer to Dr. Dionne Edwards Coe who will commence this proceeding. But of course, we would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for availing yourselves this evening. This is a matter of national importance as the Ministry of Education pursues the agenda of inclusion. If we are to include every child in the instructional delivery or in learning within the school environment, it is important that the relevant policies be put in place, the relevant legislation will also be put in place. And so this is really a very important meeting to really get the public's opinion, have the national or have everyone within our nation really involved in this discussion so that the final product produced will be in the interest of all stakeholders. So once again, thank you for availing yourselves at this time for this sacrifice. I know it's a little late, but we had to try to allow for time for as many participants to be available to participate, given differences in work schedules. But thank you very much for availing yourselves and without further ado, I pass on to Dr. Dionne Edwards Coe and her team. Thank you, everyone. Liam, come. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Okay, I'm Dionne Edwards Coe, part of the team that has put together this policy. I am here in Kingston, Jamaica University of the West Indies. My colleague, John Spencer Hernandez is also online. And our colleague, Incent Lusia Cathy Depardine is also online. Together this evening, we are going to try our very best to break down what the special education needs policies about. And hopefully, we are hoping that you will have some questions that you can ask that will help to maybe clarify some things for us. Give us some insight and add your comments. It please be as candid as possible and as open as possible to making your points. There is no nothing that is off the table, whatever you feel or you look at and you figure, well, that won't work or that will work. Then we are seeking your guidance in this respect. Okay. So in terms of starting, I'm just going to ask Dr. Hernandez to go ahead and introduce herself. And Cathy, who is somewhere here to also introduce herself. Okay. Good evening, everyone. I'm John Spencer Hernandez, special educator by training. I'm a senior lecturer at the University of the West Indies Mona campus, and also the manager of the joint world of teacher education. And we have been in this team for quite a while working to ensure that the best is delivered for our colleagues in St. Lucia. I hope that you will share with us and be very open and friendly as Dionne has asked. Thank you. Cathy, are you on? Yes, I am. Good evening, everyone. I am Cathy Depardine. I am attached to the South Louis Community College. I function as a teacher educator, educational research consultant. And I'm very, very passionate about what's happening here this evening. And I look forward to, as was said earlier, your very candid contribution and comments on what will be presented. Okay. So we're going to start out just providing an outline in terms of where we're going this afternoon. So far, I must say that we have made similar presentations to the minister and the senior executives of the ministry of education, as well as to other public bodies and the private sector bodies. I'm not sharing anything. Hello? Hello? I don't think this is watching. I just wish to follow on. Oh, oh, oh. I don't know. You're talking and then I'll stop here and first. I can tell you wouldn't have to go into a lab. Right. I'm sorry about that. Apologies. Okay. So the outline of the presentation, the presentation is really in two major parts. First, the background section of the presentation and then a focus on policy and the strategic goals. And this is where we really want to engage with the public, with persons, especially persons who have had experiences in the system in terms of what is likely to help the system work better for our children and young people. So the background really focuses on what the objectives are, what are the objectives for this project that we've been working on since January 2023. So this is just a little bit over a year. Now the general objective for the project is based on the need to transform the education system to make it responsive to the needs of all learners. That is every child who is part of the education system and to ensure that the education system, what they get in schools, both from primary school to high school, that what they get is actually aligned with the requirements of the 21st century labor market system. So specifically, we were to prepare a gender sensitive policy and strategy for the government of St. Lucia that would provide the best options, the best alternatives for educating children with special education needs. And it's important, I just kind of stick up in right here just to say that by gender sensitive, the UNESCO spectrum defines gender sensitive as an awareness that gender plays a part in how a policy is developed. And in terms of special education needs, we're talking about the spectrum. This really refers to the spectrum of needs of all learners from those who are absolutely brilliant to those who have more profound needs in the system. So it's a spectrum of needs that we're talking about from the gifted and talented to those who have additional needs or complex needs and require additional attention. Now the government's aim is to improve the quality of education overall and to ensure that there are pathways for all children who are participating in the education system. But what is the policy issue? The real issue here is that St. Lucia has actually recognized that there are barriers to learning in the primary and secondary schools system and that these stem from factors that include impairments, psychosocial issues, differences in abilities, life experiences, deprivation, negative attitudes, an inflexible curriculum, access to the curriculum, access to safe environments, policies and legislation, the attitudes and outputs from education managers and teachers and the lack of skills or inappropriate skills. And this is undergirded by the recognition that all children need educational support, regardless of where they are, that there are multiple issues, not just, you know, we were very often when we think of special education needs, we think of children who are quote unquote disabled, but that's not what we're clearly here. The range of factors that we're talking about is not just about disability. We're talking about all the needs that would put a child at risk and undermine their ability to achieve in the education system. Now, the approach that we took and many of you may, there may be people in this meeting who are part, who are part of those consultations where we interviewed persons about their experiences. So two things, we conducted 35 meetings, consultative meetings, including meetings across all the districts, meetings with the unions, meeting with teachers, meetings with students, meetings with persons from other ministries, meetings with parents. Parents are an important part and remain an important part of this work. We also conducted a desk review of the existing legislation, the Education Act, the draft special education needs policy. And importantly, the statistical analysis that tells us what are the outcomes from the school system over a number of years. And we use combined, we use this data to provide the kind of policy analysis that would identify where the gaps are. So what generally did stakeholders have to say, the stakeholders agreed that the existing legislation that the Education Act did not provide sufficient coverage for a coordinated system of special education for the sub-sector to be healthy enough to deliver services to students. And so they identified several gaps. These gaps included qualified personnel to conduct clinical assessment, appropriate interventions, qualified special education, long wait times for assessments, long wait times for intervention, teaching and learning resources in the classroom, for example, the need for assistive technology and technology that would allow those children who are impaired, visually impaired, hearing impaired, and visually impaired to have access to what's happening in the classroom, appropriate placement options. So one of the key placement options was the special schools. I will talk about that later in terms of the likelihood that there are children in our special schools that might not belong in a special schools. Okay, accessible school plans. So the need for ramps and rails and those things that allow children in wheelchair and children with any kind of mobility issues to access the schools. It was also highlighted that at the secondary school system, the special education delivery of service was particularly sparse, particularly gaps in the curriculum, gaps in instruction for children with SEND, gaps in the referral and the assessment, gaps in skills training and approaches to providing services for the transition from school to work. So in terms of the desk review, we were able to see over a period of years what the outcomes look like from the education system. And some of the things that we were able to identify was the high percentage rate of repetition in the primary school level at grades K, one and two, sorry, one and three, and at form four and five. And while it is not specifically disability or any kind of cognitive issue that would undermine these children's outcome, as I outlined before, there are a range of factors, including a range of disadvantages that would actually keep these children back and enable them to be in the position they're in. So we identified that the risk of school failure started, I was evident from as early as MST2, and that if there wasn't sufficient remediation over the period of the school years, up to grade six, then that carries on into the secondary school system. We saw that the Education Act, as it was the 2005 Act, which is what the one we had to review, was not aligned with the various conventions, UNESCO conventions, UN conventions that the St. Lucia had been signatory to that actually required the need to ensure that all persons are included in the education system. In addition, the overall framework for special education needs was missing the cooperation, collaboration and coordination between different ministries. The Ministry of Education by itself is not able to carry all the issues related to the needs of children. And so what was missing is a kind of sectoral framework to coordinate those services. Importantly, when it came to the special education unit in the Ministry of Education, the absolute need for a multidisciplinary team and by multidisciplinary, I mean a clinical psychologist, occupational therapist, physiotherapist, speech and language pathologist, and other special educators that would support and not just conduct assessment, but provide services for children. So those are the areas we focused on, we focused on the areas that emerged from the conversations with the stakeholders and from the desk review. I am going to pause here and take any questions and answers at this point in time. So the floor is actually open for anyone who would like to ask any question about what I've presented so far. This is what we call the preface of the policy. The meat of it will be undertaken by my colleagues, Joan and Kathy in a little bit. So any questions at this point in time? Any comments? We welcome any comments? Yes, hi. All right, good evening. Yes, yes, Julia. I am just like to make a brief comment. Yes, please. Yes, I'm speaking on behalf of my son. He has a speech, should I say impairment? Yes, speech impairment. He was in grade K and he has a little lips when he talked. He wouldn't be able to pronounce certain words because of his speech impairment and what he did fairly well at the end of term. I think he got about 80 percent there about and his teacher wanted to keep him back in grade in kindergarten. She wanted to keep him back in kindergarten because of the speech impairment and I told her I don't think that's wise because when it comes to everything like alphabets and grammar usage and all of that, he knows all his work, he knows alphabets, he knows his words and all of that is just that he can speak as clearly as the other kids because of the speech impairment. So it's not a matter of he being intellectually back, it's just that he has that little speech problem. So I tell her, I think it's wise that he goes up and probably gets some help, professional help with speaking or she spoke to the principal of the school and he was referred to a speech therapist which I brought him to and I think he has gotten much better. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I think sometimes, yeah. Go ahead, man. Go ahead. So like I was saying, I think it's not a matter of sometimes the child being like not advanced as maybe his or her parents. It's just that sometimes they have a little issue and they can't be rectified like say looking for different measures before leaving them back and making them because what if the child, you know, has done so well and believes like I'm capable as my other parents and then you want to leave that child back then the child will start to question themselves and think, you know, I'm not up to my friends level but I'm seeing I'm doing sometimes at the same level or doing better. It's just that I can't pronounce certain things or say it like my friends, you know, so it's just a matter of getting the help that they need. Okay. Well, I mean, these are some of the things that we had to look at when we talk about inclusion and who are the children who will require help at a given point in time. So you recognized rightfully so that your challenge was really about a speech, a delay in his speech, but this was not impairing his academic performance. So with help to pronounce his words and so on, he was he's quite fine. So in this our proposed policy, of course, parents will have the right to like you do now actually to appeal a decision and to your voice must also be heard. Of course, decisions in addition to one would have had to have a speech language pathologist assess the child to say, okay, this is a kind of problem he has and we work with the child. But once his academic performance is where it should be, then he can move on which good, you know, I'm happy you made such a decision, but we have to protect the rights of the children and parents and also the ministry and others ensure that the right decision is made for each child. Yes, that's true. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. We have another question from Irvin Smith. You can go ahead. Bade, can you hear me? Yes, yes. Not so much a question as a comment. I just am a special education teacher. I just wanted to applaud you guys and I'm happy to see the thrust that is going on in terms of looking at policy and special education because there are many issues and challenges, like you rightfully said, like building policies and to put rams in schools and it's amazing how some parents can get through the referral process in a matter of a few months and the others who you feel like your hand is tied and they go through the entire school system over years and you cannot move the referral process. So I think policy would go a long way to really make the job of a special education teacher less frustrating and get the resources and personnel that is needed. Today, like today, some schools don't have a special education teacher and with inclusivity and all the other things that we are embracing, these things are becoming even more glaring. So kudos to you all and I look forward to hear all the wonderful things that are in the pipeline. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for that. Okay. So we are going to go into the second phase and my colleagues, Kathy and Joan will take over from here. Joan, go ahead please. Okay. John, can you ask permission for us to record today's session? I believe the session is being recorded. I just sent a message to you to allow it to be recorded. It wasn't being recorded. Okay. All right. Go ahead. Good evening. Good evening. Okay. I'm going to walk you through some of the principles. Sorry, not the principles. May I go to the next slide? That would have happened before. Do I have sharing facilities? Do I have? Yeah. Okay. So we're going to go through the overall policy goal and to look at some of the related policy components which there are six of them. So we want overall for inclusion to be systemic within the system and learners with special education needs and disabilities have access to high quality appropriate education to meet their individual needs. So what do we mean by special education needs and disabilities? Now, there are some children who are vulnerable by virtue of the fact that their first language might not be English. They may live in deep rural areas where they have no access to or limited access to services. They may have attendance problems and which is what is causing their underachievement. They may be ill, have illnesses that keep them away from school a lot. So they aren't truly what we would call persons with disabilities, but they are performing just like that. In addition to that, a child who may be gifted and talented would be considered one who needs special education because that child does not really deserve to be every day doing the things that is expected off the grade level when that child is way advanced. So a special program may be developed for such a child in the same way we want to bring the others up from wherever they are performing. So it's about the individual child. So special education needs and disabilities. So the disabilities would be the roughly the 14 categories that you may very well be aware of, visually impaired, hearing impaired, physically impaired, those children who may need to be the wheelchair or have other kinds of physical disabilities. There are those who may have a learning disability. There are those who may be autistic and so on. You know the different slow learners will get into that. So there are roughly about 14 categories of disabilities. And then we have most of the children actually who may be underachieving would have special education needs, not necessarily because they have a disability, but because they are performing significantly behind their grade and age equivalent peers. So at the center of this, we have access to quality inclusive education. It does not mean that inclusive education gets rid of special schools because then we have to make sure that we have a range of placement of options. And each option is designed for the child. Once we have the assessment results, maybe this child cannot fit into a full time general education school, but may very well need to be in a special school, or maybe a special class in a general education school, or maybe just pulled out for special attention in a resource room and so on. So there are different placement options. So what are these six policy components? One has to do with the organizational structures. What structures do we need to put in place to ensure that their needs are met at the school level, at the ministry level, at the home and community levels and so on? Then we need to know what infrastructural provisions and support mechanisms are necessary to make this work. Do we need to put in ramps? Do we need to ensure that the environment is safe for any child who has a disability?  Do we have qualified special educators? Do we have qualified special educators, speech and language pathologists? We just heard about a child who had some speech problems very early in the day, young child and so on. What do we need to make this work in terms of qualified human resource personnel? And then we need to know what curricular adaptations and modifications are necessary to have access to quality inclusive education. The curriculum is typically designed for the average learner, but about those who are falling behind or those who may be way ahead how do we meet their individual needs? Then of course our stakeholders, how do we get them involved? Our local persons who may be belonging to advocacy groups, you know you have the Blind Welfare Association and so on. What about our private sector? What about our non-governmental organizations? How do we get stakeholders involved? Parents, community members and so on. And then primarily now, well everything adds up. It's a puzzle that we're putting the pieces together. How do we identify children who may have special education needs and disabilities? And what kind of intervention programs do they need and where do we place them? So we're going to go through each and spend a few minutes on it and then we'll ask for questions. Dionne? At this point persons can also ask questions or we can move on if there are no questions. Let me explain a little bit further and then we can go to the questions. Okay go ahead. All right go. Okay so the first one we're looking at is identification, intervention and placement. Now the policy surrounding that has to we claim all learners with special education needs and disabilities will have access to quality, appropriate, inclusive education with free and compulsory primary and secondary education in their communities with their parents unless it is clearly demonstrated that the child's educational, welfare and social needs may not be adequately met in a general education classroom. What are we saying here? The general population of learners are in free and compulsory primary and secondary education at this time. So we're saying this must be afforded to everyone, every single learner regardless of what your disability or your special needs might be. Now we're saying as much as it's possible you should be educated within your community with your peers unless that's not the most appropriate accommodation for you and so you need to be in a special school or a special class as we had mentioned before. Now to make this identification, intervention and placement policy work we have to have an early identification system. So as early as the disability or special education needs present itself which we may be as early as birth, some children from birth we know that they will have special education needs and disabilities. There may be those who we only pick it up in high school and it may be that they've gone ahead in high school, something happened in high school, maybe some traumatic event or an accident or something that is causing this same child to not perform it, perform at the level the child used to perform it and that's the earliest time that this is presented itself. We must have a system in place to deal with it as early as we identify the problem. We also have to look at how do we assess them, what are the instruments that we're using are they culturally relevant and standardized on your population or generally speaking children in the region? We may very well be calling some children intellectually challenged and it's because the test is biased against our setting so we have to be very careful and look at all the items to ensure that they are culturally relevant and that they are not discriminating against our children. We need to look at placement options on the least restrictive so the most or most enabling environment all the way up to and these may include as I said general education setting and I'll share with you now that most of the children who may have special education needs and disabilities are actually in our general education classroom. We have limited space in places such as where we might accommodate children with hearing impairment, children who are visually impaired or those who may be multiply disabled and therefore are in special schools and so on but most of the children are already in general ed and most of them unfortunately are without services so we need to fix that. We want to look at the types of intervention programs that we're developing for these children and to ensure that these programs are meeting their needs. We want to look at transition across phases and levels of education. We know when you're moving from grade three to grade four that the lower school which is kindergarten to three there's a transition period into the upper school four, five and six and then there's a huge transition process from primary to secondary and from secondary to tertiary or to world of work or further training. Then we need to look at our referral systems. How efficient is it? Are we having children waiting for a year or more to be assessed or is it that our referral system is bogged down because we don't have the personnel to deal with it so even though we might have the best referral system going there are some challenges because we are unable to meet the needs of all the children who may be referred and so on. What is the referral system like at the classroom level versus at the ministry's level? Can we start with an intervention program and identification program at the school first referral and then we take it from there to call in the ministry personnel, the district personnel and so on. So we have to consider all of these. Now in relation to identification, intervention, and placement we have some other strategies that we want to just share with you quickly and then we can ask some questions there on next slide. So we spoke about the policy goal and when we talk about inclusion in general education we're saying it must aim to address the underachievement of all vulnerable groups without discrimination based on disabilities, varying socioeconomic status. We do know that some children whose family are below the poverty line may have a lot of challenges sending their children to school regularly and also to ensure that their nutrition is right for them to be able to see up in school, participate and so on. We need not to discriminate versus based on gender. Are we actually having a girl friendly school and so the boys are having a harder time? Is there discrimination against girls for whatever reason?  So it's difficult for you to make that transition to school language which is a standard solution English. Is your local a problem? Are you in deep rural inner city communities and services are not reaching you? You are being discriminated against and other learners who might be migrants, displaced or refugee populations living in St Lucia. So we're saying no discrimination based on all of these and any other little vulnerability you may have as a result of your status. All learners must have access to quality and equitable inclusive education with their peers and in their communities at all levels whether it's early childhood, primary, secondary and tertiary. But bear in mind that little caveat that says if this is not the best placement for you at this time then you must be in a special school or a special class where your needs may best be met there. All right we spoke about free and compulsory education already and the early identification system to deal with screening, placement, intervention and support needs of learners at the earliest stage. We need to look at the Department of Education is it that we are collaborating enough with other ministries responsible for youth equity health and gender affairs for example and third sector organizations to establish a long-term multi-level policy framework for implementing quality inclusive and equitable education in schools. Okay any questions at this point before we go on to the next policy goal? Good evening. Good evening. Okay I don't know if I'm jumping the gun. I know we're looking at the policy but did we set out a legal framework? My saying that is from my experience from what I know subject to correction. Our parents tend to be in denial. I'm talking about those who are physically. They are in denial when we tell them that they need to go to the test and move forward so on with the test and they are in denial and they only really do it when the child is at grade six and there is nothing that the teacher or the principal or even the EU can do if they are not ready to do it. My question is although we're looking at a policy but did we have a legal framework to help us in that direction? Okay so the policy would speak to that and also the Education Act because parents have the right to appeal a decision and for some kind of group to listen to what the parents' objection may well be. However at the end of the day the state also has a right to ensure that the child is getting the best possible education that he can afford to have that child received. So it's about within the law that legal framework will state the extent to which a parent may appeal and that parent may lose that appeal because what they are seeking if not at all may not be our regulation to assist parents and also the state to ensure that the child is at the center of all of this and not necessarily the parent who may be thinking that I don't want my child to be in a special school or a special class or even general education because I think the child should be in a special school but the parent has a right to be heard and the state also has a right to be heard and an amicable decision is the right because remember you also have for example school attendance officers who can take a parent to court who for no good reason is not sending the child to school and the state can rule on that so in the same way we're asking for that because what we're presenting now when it moves from here to policy it becomes legislated down the road to say okay this is what in the same way the Education Act had to go through the various phases for it to be accepted and for the the the ministerial lawyers to take it to the next step to have it go through parliament and all of that so most definitely that is being considered any other question or join if I may interject yes go right ahead I'm in reference to mr. Daniels query the education act is currently under revision and there is significant consideration regarding the policy goals and the policy statements that are presented in this party under this particular consultancy the education quality improvement project team we did have the two consultant films dialoguing with each other to ensure that the revisions to the education act do speak to enhancements for provisioning or enhancements for special education within sentences education sector and of course as the consultants do develop this special education needs policy it is very much informed by the proposed amendments to Sinusha's education act so there is some alignment and streamlining that is going on in the background thank you for that anybody else in terms of content anything you want to have clarified if not then I will move on to the next overall policy role so we spoke about organizational structures the policy goal policy and strategies describe how the support structures at all levels will be organized to enable schools to effectively implement inclusive education now our schools are general education schools and the curriculum designed for children who are supposed to gain a year in a year yes and so oftentimes it's it's it's called the one size fits all approach how do we make our schools become truly inclusive and how do we enable them to become that way so we're going to have to look at financing monitoring and evaluation they need to be financed to ensure that they are getting the right kind of materials equipment qualified teachers and so on within the school setting to assist to to make the structure sound enough for them to be successful so general education schools must be transformed to inclusive schools how do we do that what organizational structure do we put in place to ensure that that happens how does a principal and the teachers function in such a school it's a little different so we um no it's not that different children are there the difference is that we're going to structure it in a way so that all children that their needs will be met and not just necessarily those who fit nicely into the design curriculum for secondary education what structure do we need to enhance post-secondary education so these youngsters may become citizens of st lucha who are able to contribute and to take care of themselves and do so in a way that they are self-sufficient while contributing to the development of their country then we also need to put what are the structures currently in place for special schools should we enhance them maybe um we have to look at the provisions made not maybe we have to look at the provisions that they have within the school setting are they appropriate enough what else what other kind of support do they need inclusive special units there are some schools that may have a unit a special class what kind of structure must be in place to ensure that they are successful at what they do how do we get the miniatures of education health and social welfare and others involved so that we have a more comprehensive approach because some children um when they are very young they are taken care of by the ministry of health so birth from birth the ministry of health identifies some issues and then the ministry of education does not know that because the information was not transmitted to the ministry of education to say okay from birth we know this child has a physical um maybe cleft palate maybe clubfoot maybe um cerebral palsy whatever the disability may be that has been recognized from birth and yet still the ministry of education didn't know that but maybe social welfare knows because they may be supporting the family by way of a wheelchair or any other kinds of um social contributions that are made through social welfare um gender affairs may very well know and are involved so we want to have more of a collaboration inter ministerial collaboration so that there isn't this situation where um the ministry of education is unable to really do the comprehensive um intervention but um health has some funding and already knows the case or needs to know about the case and so on so we want to have a comprehensive approach right so organizations organizational structures will have to be in place to ensure that all of what we're discussing here happens right next slide there okay so inter ministerial um cross sectoral collaboration is necessary and must be established between the department of education and ministry's responsible for health youth gender affairs and so on as I um shared with you the operational remit however roles and functions of the special education unit must um clearly ensure that assessment and intervention reach all students requiring services at each level of the education system so a lot will be placed on the special unit within the department of education to continue to ensure and to expand to meet the needs of the the special ed population and those children with disabilities the department of education must provide long term national level financial support and resources linked to a system wide inclusive education strategies and establishes systems to monitor and evaluate the effectiveness and quality of inclusive education provided so you can just put something in place and leave it you have to monitor it you have to ensure that it is adequately financed what are the line items in the budget that you need to have apart from a big budget for an overall budget for education what are some of the line items there monitoring procedures must be well established to ensure that inequalities in access to educational resources and services nationally and at the district level are addressed at the organizational level so these are some of the strategies projectives linked to the policy goal any question before I go on to the third one are you following well understanding well no issues concerns um clarifications oh okay go ahead mrs manuel go ahead there is one question online which speaks to why isn't the information that you have presented i'm assuming the data that you have presented why is this not captured in st lucia's census this question of course maybe beyond your purview but hopefully with with this policy being formulated and the relevant enhancements to census education act there would now be enhanced provisioning and statistical reporting as it pertains to the special education aid sector um of st lucia uh in fact uh edith we have made very specific recommendations about what statistics needs to be captured um specifically relating to accommodations and being able to report those children will receive the accommodations at the c-sec level in terms of what the performance outcomes are so we can actually see how whether or not the accommodations are providing a benefit for these children at this point we don't know so there are there are quite a bit of specific stats that we've asked for in the report to be included in the collection of data yes and we are very pleased that the consultant firm didn't make those recommendations and so hopefully once this policy is formalized and ratified by the government of st lucia we could have that networking with the central statistics office in terms of their reporting regarding um st lucia's um advancements or progression annually thank you so much for that anybody else before we move on okay dianne go to the next one okay curricular adaptations and modifications because it can't be business as usual the chief education officer will institute programs promoting equity and quality inclusive education that will ensure that the varying needs of learners will be facilitated through curricular accommodations modifications and adaptations and adaptive and assistive technology which will allow all children to optimize their potential now st lucia led the way in the region i must say in terms of looking at the curriculum as it is right now and making some adaptations and modifications that we assisted with to ensure that there is a tiered level of um understanding and and and the way in which we do things so where whereas the objectives might very well be the same what is happening is that we now have to look at different um activities and the way in which we assess children to look at the different levels of the learners and the different modalities in which people learn so are we catering to um learners who are strong visual learners strong auditory learners strong in aesthetic style learners they learn by touching and working with manipulatives and so on we catering to um the various needs that human beings have and not just simply talking to children and expecting them expecting them to get it by just sharing information in the traditional chalk and talk way so those are things that we are advocating so we have to look at the the curricula from kindergarten all the way to form five are we catering to the needs of all the different learners groups of learners within a general education classroom or in a special class or in a special school right because they vary to wherever they are we have to look at the pre-service teacher training programs are those programs adequately preparing our teachers to go out there and teach children with varying needs or are we training them to um teach straight down the middle yeah the one-size-fits-all approach that we spoke about so are they able to to deal with learners who are well ahead of themselves or learners who may be struggling with the general um curriculum we need to look at the in-service teacher training programs because if you're going to have this happening and you're going to have inclusive schools which we already have how equipped are our in our teachers in these classrooms how equipped are they to to provide for these children's needs when we do their research and we talk with teachers they did claim that they are not as prepared as they would love to they have received some training but they believe that they should have more comprehensive ongoing training so that they can be in a better position to work with children with varying needs we want to look at the universal designs and learning what is that all about it looks at differentiated instruction responding to the different types of intervention necessary to make children maximize their potential we have to look at assessment accommodations CSEC will give you a reader if there's a proper um report that says you need a reader it will give you a writer if you need a writer you can get various kinds of modifications extended time national exams that's happening but at the school level is that happening are we catering to the needs of our children who need some assessment accommodation or are they expected to sit with all the children and do the same exam in the same time whereas if they did get a little extra time or with some other kind of approved assistance the the results the outcome may be much better next slide that's okay what are some of the objectives linked to that maybe some of our children who are in the general education classroom who are visually impaired may need braille alternative scripts augmentative and alternative modes of of learnings means of means and formats of communication such as sign language orientation and mobility skills how do they get around the the compound where their class is located and facilitating peer support and mentoring in schools the department of education will provide curricula that are adapted and modified for use with learners with sand who are in inclusive and special education classrooms yes one size fits all approach has to go a range of placement options will be provided the least restrictive environment most suitable educational arrangement we spoke about that but it will it will surface throughout because placement is a very important aspect of what we are doing so we based on what the assessment results say we'll decide your your specialist will decide where do you go from the least restrictive which is a general education classroom to a special education and classroom there are some children who are in hospitals what services do we provide for them some who may be incarcerated or in special homes because they may have been in conflict with the law how do we continue to educate them and so on a mechanism will be developed to guide the transition across phases and levels of education extremely important career counselors and transition officers will be provided alongside school personnel to support learners and employers regarding school to work transition training and employment possibilities and 3.6 universal design for learning approaches will be outlining school strategic plans to show how this will be used to provide a variety of teaching methods and that give all learners equal opportunities to maximize their potential okay so we have dealt with curricula adaptations and modifications question and answers again and then after this we're going to turn over to Kathy who will take you through the other three any questions hi Joan I have shared with you and Dion two questions raised online yes if you could read this out to the audience and I suppose you and your team can respond okay so the first question is can the school make some adjustments in order to accommodate these students rather than excuse me putting them in a special school Joan that's the first question and the school makes and the school makes some adjustments this is what this whole process is about to what extent the learner if we go back to the very first um slide that was shared Dion that had to do with um can you go back a little bit for me to access sure yes let's share that one go back go back right this is it right this is the one um in fact uh go to the next one go ahead go ahead no go ahead right here so all learners will have access right we spoke about the fact that we must ensure I think it was one before but it's okay I speak to it we must ensure that once we identify children with special needs and disabilities that every effort is made to include that child in general education and the services brought to that child however if it is not in the best interest of that child to be in general education let's say for argument sake this child is totally nonverbal is unable to control his or her um well that is it is impampers cannot walk cannot speak make loud noises head self-injurious behaviors various kinds of things that's happening to this one child that may not be in this child's best interest to be in general ed because his or her own education may not be appropriately met in a general education classroom in addition to that this child's um complicated uh disability may actually affect how the other children um learn because there are some children who may be into head banging and loud noises and so the children will not be be able to focus and the teacher may not be able to go on with the class if that is happening so maybe the the best placement of this child is in a special school and maybe with some intervention may actually be able to reintegrate it depend on the extent to which these things are managed and are under control there are some children on the autism spectrum who may have difficulty fitting into general ed class because of some of these things i'm saying i'm sharing with you there may also be children who are truly attention deficit hyperactivity disabilities that they may have and these children may not be able to focus in a general ed so once we get them to a level that they are best able to be reintegrated that should happen but for all intents and purposes we're saying we don't have children in separate schools but we can't get rid of separate school a separate special school because some children that's a very best option for them to be in at the point at which they were assessed and needing an intervention yeah all right question two based on these policies will there be provisions made to educate parents about their child's educational needs and accommodations if needed absolutely on point excellent question parents have to go through parent education program we heard earlier that some parents are in denial so true yes and so part of getting them to accept and to understand and to appreciate is to educate them about what is happening to their child and what are the state's options for the best education for this child to get the parent on board we need parents as advocates for their children to put the pressure on to ensure that their children's needs are being met so parent advocacy groups extremely important but it must be driven by education so that they understand what is happening to their child so that they understand that I have five children and I am making because I'm the below the I'm really very poor I can't afford to send all five to school their school age I can't afford to send all five every day so I'm sending the one I think that's the brightest might go to school every day because that child might be the one who's going to take us out of poverty that's my reasoning then this little one will seem so bright so I'm going to send this one one day two days or maybe not at all so there's a problem in this home what are the services necessary and the education that that parent needs to know and the social welfare services to kick in to help this parent to ensure that all five children are in school every single day what is necessary for that to happen so there's a lot of education at different levels that must take place for our parents so that they are totally fully on board thank you there's another question and it's the parent someone is asking if a child has cleft palate how would that be dealt with in a school setting and in a classroom okay I think cleft palate usually needs a speech therapist usually has a speech impediment some cleft palate children may actually be gifted and tinted are we going to put that child in a special school because of the cleft palate and we're not sometimes able to understand very well what that child is saying that child may very well fit into an inclusive setting with speech and language intervention programs and a teacher who is trained to assist or someone within the school setting to assist that child during that child may actually be able to communicate better in writing yes but if that cleft palate situation is only one of several other concerns if it is linked to other conditions that's that's creating problems for the child we have to look at the best placement but if it's just cleft palate and there's a difficulty understanding the child that should not mean that that child is definitely a special class situation but each child must be assessed and the decision made by a qualified team of experts just like a child with lisp or a child who's tottering yes a child who's tottering may not be placed in a special situation if the only thing that is happening to the child is that the child is tottering and so we have to be very careful when we decide who needs what what placement should the child have based on the presenting situations that that we are able to assess and to diagnose what the challenge is and the appropriate placement made for that child okay we can move on dear so we're going there's a there's a comment here and the comment reads I fully support the need for EIS we should mandate the transition required at each learning phase and level of education thank you for that it's definitely in what we are recommending so thanks for the thumbs up think this is where you take it from Kathy okay someone has asked um please expand on and give examples of referral systems is that a question for me what did you say yes please expand on and give examples of referral systems okay so referral system usually it starts somewhere with a suspicion that a child has a problem it may start from the parent can make a referral a teacher can make a referral a community member can make a referral and so on so we have person we have the first phase would be a system whereby we allow for referrals so we may need special kinds of forms and um how do we go about identifying why we suspect that there is a challenge a teacher may say may complete a referral form to say I notice that this child is regularly absent from school uh the child is reading significantly below grade and age and grade expectancy level and so on so we need a reason for our referral right from there it goes to usually we say to the school so you have your school internal referral system and a school committee meets to look at the concerns that are being raised within the school or from the parent who may have come in to say um I believe my child has a some kind of disability or some challenge and that school um team will meet uh and look at the different referrals that have come in would make no this is the ideal situation we're talking about would make some recommendations could be one I'm referring up to the district team or to the um to the the the central team at the ministry of education because I think based on what we're seeing here we need the full team to come in or for the child to go to the full team for a comprehensive evaluation that's one route then another route could be let's try internally first and these are our recommendation to the class teacher or to the parent that we're going to do some interventions we're going to do some minor um assessments that we can do at our level and then we're going to try an intervention first then we meet again if that does if we get reports on the interventions that we're doing and those that are working put us to everybody for for where we are calling the parents say okay based on the individualized attention the child is getting we don't think we need to bring in a team or send the child to to to um castries to have any further assessments done and so on but coming out of that there may very well be those children who must um be listed for comprehensive evaluation by a multidisciplinary team meaning the clinical psychologists special educator maybe a speech and language pathologist depending on what is happening maybe a physiotherapist maybe an occupational therapist a social worker and nurse a doctor whomever the child must be a part of this team to dig deep to find out what are the needs of this child so referral system is really checkpoints at which we start with identification of the problem where do we refer this um to we have different levels of referral um starting with the school internal system the district person responsible for special ed the central um special education unit the department of education and so on so we look at that then the same team may decide on intervention and the further referral or referral to a special school but that can only and should only be done by a comprehensive multidisciplinary team so it is really the various stages along which we identify early what the challenge is and what are the options that we have so we line them up ensure that everybody understands um the various levels and what it takes to stay at the school level the district level and the central ministry level okay so there's a whole diagram that is associated with that all right there's another question here um and it may be that someone from the ministry wants to answer this it says does the bill speak to that's the education bill ensuring that relevant specialists are employed to assist both general ed and special ed teachers to help enhance special check the children's special needs well we are recommending that so we hope it will go into law so um most definitely we have that as part of policy decisions to be made so if anyone from the ministry wants to highlight that some more I know um Dale Shunjush is is online uh would anybody like to um speak to that question but it is recommended strongly recommended yes the um that is very much the case the education act of course it is not really itemized because the the education act has to be broad um so such specificity it is not really evident but there is provision within the act for ensuring that the human resource capacity is adequate and is in accordance with the needs of the sector um the the policy however is designed to really speak to specific matters that would more or less reinforce the education act um but at this stage it's it's termed a bill so the policy does strengthen on that and again as you have mentioned Joan you have spoken to that in your recommendations and in your proposed policy statements I think we can move on from here Kathy or before you do there was someone who asked the question I think Robertina Holland said another question or there's a hand in the comment section okay I'm not sure it's a shouldn't that be something that would have been mentioned to the parent during the child's one and three year assessment at the clinic I'm not sure Robertina can you expand please what exactly are you making reference to is that reference to the referral system or is this in relation to something else and good night everybody um yes good night everybody um I was I was referring to very in a setting a child annoying whether a child would be featured in a regular school or in a special needs school instead of after you when you go to the school to have the child registered then you get to know that um normally during clinic during the during the child's first years first three years you take your child to the clinic to get assessed at that point they would tell they should be able to tell you there whether or not they notice anything different about your child they normally do those um those those little tests where they would ask them about different colors to kick a ball those little things so I wanted to know wouldn't that be assessed at that point instead of waiting until when they get into the public schools public or private schools okay um a lot of children will not show up with some of the challenges that you're speaking about so early if it is there at that stage most definitely the ministry of education should be very aware and which is why we want the interministerial collaboration now those children who show up early must get early intervention there are those however whose disability or whose special education needs let's take for example a child who has been molested and things are going okay and then suddenly the work has started to suffer that child is no longer interacting no longer participating and the child is in grade six or even in high school something has gone wrong in that child's life the first time we're seeing it is at this late stage and when you when that child is referred because work has fallen off everything is not going right and sometime behavioral issues come in and everything when you reach out to that those parents or the child you realize something traumatic has no happened and the best way the child could let us know that something is wrong is through withdrawing or through becoming extremely boisterous and and and bothersome so there are those children also who who's learning problems as i mentioned before those problems are as a result of being vulnerable so i'm a strong strong strong french creole speaker and i come into school and i'm still not understanding some of the language of school yeah and so um the the the it becomes a challenge for me to transition from the french creole to to english and it is it is um affecting how i learn so it's a language um influence that's taking place there that may not be picked up so early as well as it could be picked up so there are things sometimes that children we don't want doctors to tell children that they're going to grow out of things because when that happens it our job gets harder so as early as it is identified definitely sharing of information and knowing what to do but some of the disabilities and like learning disabilities like dyslexia oftentimes we don't know for sure until around eight six seven that this child that's right okay thank you because john can you hear me there's a problem with your connection uh john hello there's a problem with your connection reverse number early intelligence nobody was here yes there was a problem with your connection there was a problem with your connection so i i think earlier on and i think the point was was duly made though so i'm going to take um i'm going to take dale's raised hand good good evening everybody i i thank john for that excellent explanation she's on point in regard to the fact that there are conditions that emerge after the child enters the formal um school system but to the question that was was asked these services for children in the zero to four and a half five age range these services currently exist but as it stands now without this policy a lot is left to the parent there is not a lot of of um established rules that that would say to the parent you are required to do this and that and especially if your child um is is demonstrating certain issues certain characteristics you are required to do this and that the other thing that the the policy establishes is that stick holder involvement so it is not just the parent and just the doctor but it it brings in various other support agencies that can give guidance support assistance to the parent it can include human services it can include um the the ssdf with with the welfare resources it can include medical personnel it can include education personnel as it stands right now that is not well coordinated it is left to everybody's you know own set of rules and regulations how that goes but what the policy establishes is a a a mandate for coordinated activity and establishment of organized rules that would guide the parent in in such a situation thank you thank you thank you for that deal on point mr says he's on point uh do we have another question if not we're going to ask kathy to take it from here and she'll take us to the end of the presentation are you with us kathy kathy is muted oh my apologies okay my apologies yeah so i i did say good evening again ladies and gentlemen um earlier on uh dr spencer nandes would have highlighted that one of the the policy goals really focused on curricular adaptations and the modifications and specifically focused on promoting equity and quality inclusive education that would ensure that the varying needs of the the the send learners would be met um these adaptations are contingent upon having proper infrastructural provisions and the support system and mechanisms in place so the the main focus of the the next policy goal would be establishing structures and the systems that will provide reasonable accommodations in the form of adaptations resources and support systems which will optimize learning opportunities and outcomes for special education needs and disabilities learners in an inclusive environment so uh those support systems some of which would have been been mentioned earlier in the presentation for example would include accessible classrooms and buildings and again we're looking at the the mainstream classrooms that would promote in inclusivity and of course so for instance here we would be looking at whether or not um the learners can actually access through ramps yes um we're looking at whether the playgrounds or the the fun facilities that are that are at schools really cater to all learners and do not exclude certain learners because they may have special certain special education needs or disabilities so something um perhaps persons may think it's very trivial but including um all the learners um and are making provisions for them to have access to fun activities or to participate rather in fun activities is is actually critical those um systems and reasonable accommodations would also include adaptive technologies that would of course enhance the learning experience um we spoke earlier of um applying the UDL the universal design for learning and if that that um you know approach to instruction has to be applied then certainly the various um ICT tools which would facilitate the application of the UDL would definitely be be necessary so um along with that we are definitely looking at the provision of um accessible learning materials certainly um every every learner who presents as a special education needs um learner must have the proper materials that would enhance and help him or her meet the um educational objectives or learning objectives that would have been set for him or her again if you have to apply UDL there should be access to multiple means of engagement so you're still looking at um different types of learners identifying the different types of learners and providing materials that would cater to all of those learners who would present themselves in the classroom because a child who perhaps has a physical disability um uh or that disability physical disability does not take away from the fact that this this this learner would um or would have a specific learning style that needs to be catered to if the learning objectives have to be met and suddenly there should be visual and auditory supports for all um all learners within the classroom again if we are focusing on um including learners not excluding anyone and um ultimately meeting the objectives or meeting the learning objectives which have been set for those learners next slide please so certainly in order to meet this main um policy goal which focuses on establishing all of those structures and systems that will provide those accommodations to our learners certainly the the recommendation is that um the the department of education will provide reasonable accommodation of of the individual requirements that will maximize and and the interesting term there is individual required individuals requirements um or not interesting but important term there is the term individual so we're looking at not leaving any learner behind okay and um certainly we're looking at um increasing the capacity of all schools to meet a greater diversity of educational needs so that learners may be supported within their local communities and Dr. John would have mentioned um this much earlier on that there has to be the there's this focus on um accommodating the learner whether within um the the general school setting and or within his or her community and if if the learner cannot be accommodated within those settings then the the learner would have to be accommodated at a special school or in an alter at an alternate location okay um next slide please um oh do you have any questions or comments before I move on okay well certainly if you think of anything then of course we would be happy to answer go ahead Dion of course again I like to go back to the curricular adaptations and modifications um really implementing those curricular adaptations and modifications really depend heavily on human resource provisions because it is the human resources that are required to really um be be the um the faces of the implementation of the the curricular adaptations so um the main policy goal here would be that the government of St. Lucia will undertake appropriate measures to improve the quantity and the quality of teachers educational leaders teacher educators and the specialists who support school communities in implementing inclusive education you would note here the the the specific mention of a all of the stakeholders here teachers educational leaders teacher educators and other specialists so we're looking excuse me specifically at the composition of the or providing the necessary personnel on those multidisciplinary assessment teams um additionally looking at having qualified teaching staff you would have heard Dr. Joan um making a reference to during the fact that during the consultations um one of the the gripes of teachers was that um they themselves or that there's a depth of teaching staff were qualified to deal with or to implement inclusive education and to do so you know with with with with a certain degree of confidence so so one one of the focus areas would be the provision of qualified teaching staff to include those with disabilities that that is critical also in both in inclusive settings and in the special schools of course for those persons who are currently functioning as both as special education teachers and also general teachers there needs to be ongoing professional development so that persons require the um they receive sorry the requisite training that is so critical so that they know how to deal with how to cater to um those learners who have um special education needs or disabilities in the classroom um we would need to also have a focus or ensure that the Sunday unit is staffed with qualified education officers because of course there there needs to be that sort of oversight of what is happening in the system so certainly um having qualified education officers would would would assist in that regard um if we are going to make make put out this clarion call for um teachers the teachers in the classrooms to be trained then certainly the persons training those teachers would themselves need um to be qualified qualified so that the preparation of of in-service and pre-service teachers also to function effectively in inclusive classrooms is actually something that is um well done well planned for okay so there there needs to be that thrust and that focus on teacher educators to ensure that they are equipped with the skills which are supposed to be passed on to the teachers who have to function or who are being asked to function and to function at a certain level um within an inclusive setting additionally um if having an inclusive school or a school that promotes inclusive education is part of the strategic plan of of an institution or of a school then certainly the individuals managing and leading the persons sorry leading those schools would have to be qualified to manage and to provide the necessary oversight to institutions or to schools which are supposed to be inclusive schools so that those persons would have to ensure that all of the processes all of the the activities um of of their particular schools are they actually reflect the characteristics or the requirements of inclusive education and that they there's the necessary monitoring even at the school level and evaluation at the school level to ensure that if we say that we are following or implementing the principles of inclusive education that that is actually happening next slide please so um if we are to realize success with this general policy goal which looks at improving quantity and quality of teachers um when we look more specifically at the strategic objectives aligned with that policy goal the recommendation is that the department of education will provide appropriately trained teachers who are qualified to teach learners with send in inclusive classrooms additionally that department will recruit teaching staff from diverse backgrounds inclusive of teachers with disabilities so as excuse me um that will allow a sort of you know kind of modeling of what the expectations are additionally principles and teaching staff would need to be trained to meet the diverse educational needs of the learners um and of course training pathways and it would need to be outlined to prepare specialists who support school communities to implement inclusive education and of course that would ensure that members of the multidisciplinary team are themselves qualified an additional recommendation is that um and again that is to deal with the the the gripe that um teachers are saying they aren't they they really feel that they need some assistance in terms of how to deal with the everyday um the day-to-day issues that having to deal with um send send learners would present um they they really need that sort of of of grounding in in implementation of and dealing with so the recommendation is that the department of teacher education and educational leadership at at SALCC will offer compulsory send courses for all pre-service teachers to prepare them to teach all learners so again the that that um that's um goal of leaving no child behind yes so as well um we would the policy is um well we're recommending that the the that sender should be integrated into the teacher education programs um the final strategic objective here would be that the special education unit would be staffed with the requisite personnel um or the necessary personnel to oversee the implementation of special education island-wide do you have any comments or questions before i move on hey miss um good evening i have uh a comment or a concern um i really appreciate that the the the report that we get from this the mgt team i i find it to be very concise it it addresses a lot of things and where my concern is the recommendations it is a lot now i'm not in it is too many recommendations but um let us look at the classroom where you will maybe have in that one classroom five children who receive reports from the team and we get ip's for each of those five children in addition to the the teacher having to cater to the other children in the class um i know that we don't have to implement all recommendations at any given time we have to try for what works and whatever but in terms of the teacher the teacher ability the requirements that we want from the teacher in meeting the needs of all of the children and having to cater to each of those children's special needs um do you see that there will be a need for us to maybe on a case by case basis sometimes depend on how many children we have in the class need to reduce the teacher the student teacher ratio based on the needs of the children um i i would certainly say so and remember there are um learners based on um the the actual needs they would need further assistance that perhaps the the mainstream teacher cannot provide himself or herself so certainly there would be that need for assistance and again like you said on a case by case basis um there there are there would in fact be learners who would need that sort of assistance certainly yes i don't know if may i ask a question oh yes okay let's forget that the child has been diagnosed with a special need and let's say where i am a grade three teacher and i received the 20 24 children from the grade two teacher and when i assess them uh so this is the beginning of grade three i find that some of them are reading at the pre-proma level some are reading at the grade one level some are at the grade two level and um this is a grade three class right the grade two level ones would be fine because that's where they should be i'm going to introduce them to grade three work now regardless of of of what i know about the child do i just go straight ahead with the grade three curriculum because they're in grade three even though some of my readers are at pre-proma and so on or do i try to differentiate my instruction so that i have groups of learners within my classroom and try to meet their needs in in the general education classroom now that's linked also back to college where we are saying at the college level teachers must be exposed must be trained to work with children on varying ability level because no one classroom has everybody at functioning at the same level so even though you may have five ips one might look and see that there are commonalities and sometimes some of the children may not need help in a particular area uh let's say it's reading is the main problem but the child's math skills are normal and quite fine or even above average or depending on what the child's needs uh those needs are we would design a program to help because as a teacher responsible for everybody in the class but services to assist me must be available maybe a pathway coach maybe someone who knows this more than i so that i can be guided as to the best way to implement but certainly one of my options is not to ignore the presence of those who are not functioning at the level that they should be when they when i receive them september morning but services must be provided to assist the classroom teacher to understand and implement help in a way that sometimes it's it's really grouping for uh thank you so much john i see that there's a oh are you still speaking go ahead i think because i'm using my phone as a hot spot whenever call is coming in that's the problem but you can go ahead it's okay okay thanks john i see there's a hand up from elvin smith yes there are also some comments online don't miss the smith yes yes um i i heard um the principal a while ago i believe if i got the voice correctly um but she was um going along in a direction that i thought um what i thought she was going in a direction that my mind was i was just asking um she spoke about reducing the student ratio i was thinking more along the lines of on a case by case basis should a student need a teacher aid in the class what provisions or recommendations have been made for that because it's a big challenge for the schools when we have um some children who require um that that um support that is not readily available and if the parents are not able to afford then it becomes a big issue on the children um really and truly do suffer so any anything on that um yes mr smith yes um the policy does cover or one of the recommendations is the provision of aids um to students um john or do you want to elaborate yeah or add anything there yeah yeah there are times when um i think even now where a teacher's aid is present or um coaches persons who are special educators are deployed in quite a few of your classrooms i was really shocked pleasantly surprised to see how many maybe not all fully qualified but to see how many special educators are deployed all over um st lucha to assist classroom teachers with the implementation of um identification of some of the challenges and implementation of some of the strategies to work with them so within the system as is now there are persons um maybe not enough but i can tell you um we are ahead of many of us in terms of the numbers uh what needs to happen is to ramp up the qualifications of these persons but they are actually provided and we're advocating that more be done in that in that area and also with teacher training you're going in service training you're going to find teachers are better equipped to deal with children who um have um who are not fitting the curriculum exactly the way how we would have liked it um was that um something in the chat trying to check yes i think there are a number of comments here um there is one comment that says i think we can take this at the end so all schools will not be inclusive schools um there's another question regarding the timeline for these changes to be implemented and there's a comment that says i must say good cent very good st lucha uh i'm amazed by your new policies in the educational system as it is provided every child with an opportunity to be successful most importantly remove limitations and inequalities very good okay thank you for that um mr sedjouz has responded to a question i believe um and here's a parent speaking from observation and not maybe factual the sound this sounds good on paper but in fact does not work sounds like the minimum standards program where the student do the exam but not the result what the results are not used uh i think uh idiot would you like to respond to that sure dion um i do understand the parents concern um and the administrative education is committing i would like to state um is committing to attempt in to do this differently again this policy the goal of this policy is to have its ratified by the government of st lucha and having the government's backing and having this policy enshrined then it really allows for greater accountability to be developed within the education system and where you have accountability i would assume and i would hope that the mechanisms would be put in place to ensure that this does not just sound good on paper but that this policy is actioned and really successfully implemented i would like to add that the consultant team there is um discussion as to having an implementers workshop while the initial timeline was supposed to have been towards the end of this month but this has been pushed back probably into march so there will be an implementers workshop where the key stakeholders will be brought together to really determine how the ministry and the relevant um stakeholders across the system or within the public service as well as other relevant agencies as to how these parties can come together in the interest of ensuring that this policy as you mentioned miss um does not just remain one that sounds good on paper but is successfully implemented but again you do have a very valid concern based on um historical patterns yes yes certainly certainly and thank you so much for sharing that miss yeah would anybody else get to comment or ask a question well i'm seeing one parent ask the question lory charles i would like to know what's going to be done oh i'm speaking about my daughter she should like can read and would like to know what's going to be done about that or asking how can she be helped please so she's asking how the policy would speak to um assisting her daughter with reading um certainly if the that your daughter is um goes through the the requisite assessment miss um i'm certain that a plan of action would be put in place for her um would anybody else care to add i'd like to oh sorry drone oh before you give your your expert statements june um is it possible um for the parents to also share her details so hopefully um a special need experts on this call maybe able to lia is with you thereafter because again if this is inclusion we really want to help every child and if your child has this little challenge then i'm sure that the relevant parties on this call would be happy to assist you but you could go ahead june okay um mom the first thing if you have recognized that she has a reading problem uh she should be as the system is now she should be referred for testing and based on the test results and a program of intervention would be developed for her now we do know that one of the limitations of that sometimes is a long waiting list and with that long list sometimes it doesn't happen immediately but i would think that you need to act immediately i try and get those services in place uh dale so jusey's online he can give you further information to help you with your daughter but thanks for coming out and sharing with us oh mr senjist um but if she is unavailable or to provide her contact details you could always contact the special education unit oh there there it is oh yes and i noticed that one parent did speak to the matter of stigmatization hopefully with this policy being implemented and ratified by the government of sin lusia um we would have some um redress and have the the matter of stigmatization dealt with across the system very very good a quick a quick story to this program apparent listening right based on um what the parents said about the the debates about stigmatization how can ministry of education stop the the stigmatization being happening to persons of disability because most times as a parent i firmly believe stigmatization for disability or persons with disability starts with ministry of education because when we as parents we come to them and ask for assistance they don't give it to us so the head is always the problem without the head the body does not move so i believe the stigmatization starts from ministry of education so i really want to know how can it be stopped what what is the the necessary measures that will be taken to stop the stigmatization or yes to stop stigmatization among persons with disability because i firmly believe that's where it starts because we as parents we come to you and we ask for assistance and we don't get it we feel left out we feel like as if sometimes even when you call the office you get some rude responses or you get some nasty attitudes or they would some of the um how you call it the secretaries would say the supervisor is not there all of these things we as parents we take records of it and we feel as if we let our children down so i really want to know how can it stop or what are the policies put in place to stop the stigmatization among persons with disability that is my my i'm listening to my parents and i'm gonna find me oh sorry i was just um thanking the parent for for for sharing her concern in that regard and um just to to highlight the need for a lot of sensitization and um really making persons more aware of um the need to be you know more tolerant and so on but either you can go you can go on um just to say that the parents concerns um are maybe well placed um we do appreciate your frank statements and of course the ministry of education is cognizant that there has been um a lack of due attention to this sector and bearing this in mind and given that the ministry of education is again committed to ensuring that all of our students have a fair opportunity significant efforts are being made at this time to ensure that the issues of stigmatization and the inadequate care for students and the families with special education needs that that is adequately addressed we do have the policy that we have presented to you this draft policy is designed to develop accountability across the system and have the relevant supports and structures in place this is one huge step the ministry has taken and this ultimately is to be ratified by the government of silnusia we also have the draft education act that is currently under revision the act does speak quite strongly in terms of having statements and protections put in place for persons with special education needs parents and family members and we also have an education quality improvement project this product has invested quite extensively in resourcing special education needs schools across the island and giving supports to parents and family members of children with special education needs this of course is um just a drop in the bucket but the ministry of education is committed to continuing its investments in this regard we also have the OECS um education pool project you also have investments being made under this initiative as well regarding addressing the needs of the special education sector and of course strengthening or reducing I should say the stigmatization that you speak to um we do hope that over time we would have greater awareness greater sensitization um and of course persons will come to accept and recognize the potential of children and the families with special education needs so we are sorry to cut you short but I'm a firm believer of policy making or having policies to run the process also the process can go smoothly but what's about the the school facility right the school facility is supposed to be in a conducive manner so that learning can be conducive as well so now that none of the schools on island the only school probably is Lady Gordon what's about the school the the facility the school built in how or what policy is there or what policy was put in place to improve the school facility because all special schools and I'm talking about special schools not the schools where inclusion can happen at we're talking about the special schools where inclusion is already already taking place there's a diverse amount of persons with disability at the school so what's about the building what is the policy for the school building or the school's building to make learning of better and safer environment for the children because our facilities are lacking and they're lacking big lack so I really want to know for as a parent I want to know what are the policies for the school the school building what policy is there to enhance the school or the safety of the children while they're at school so I want to know that and I am I really want the principals to talk about that too because most times I I see that they roll back and then they don't talk about the structure of the school where really and truly the structure is the biggest policy that should be should be there because the safety and well-being of the children are important and for learning to be comfortable for them to learn they must be comfortable in the the facility to learn so I really want to know what is the policy for the building is the special schools the policy for these things thank you I'm listening I'm very valid points I'm very valid concerns I'm very valid questions again the Ministry of Education does speak to the necessary enhancement that are required in the revised the proposed revised act Education Act that is underway this current policy does speak to the need for the proper infrastructure and supports I think earlier Ms. Depradine did speak to that aspect of it and I must say I must add also under the Education Quality Improvement Project we are we were mandated to develop designs construction designs for two of the special needs schools the Nata and the view for special education needs facility so the Ministry of Education is very much cognizant of the need to improve the supports and the infrastructure of those institutions it is unfortunate that it has taken so long and well I should say but the Ministry is attempting to resolve this problem as expeditiously as is possible but rest assured that a lot has been done and is being done in the background to really address the needs of the sector and ensure that the students are not disadvantaged but are given a fair opportunity to perform and to excel within a very comfortable living environment I just find that is not it is not fast enough that is my problem but we do ask that you indulge and you best some patience with us through this process but of course your statement is quite valid your concern is quite valid and the Ministry will continue to enhance its provisioning for special education needs students across the sector thank you for that that really comprehensive response miss Immanuel would anybody else get to add a comment or have a question okay if not I would turn things back over to Dr. Care Dr. Carete are you going ahead with the stakeholder involvement oh yes yes please okay so another focus of the policy is stakeholder involvement now more specifically the policy goal is that a framework that will identify various stakeholders and their specific roles that the specific roles that they will play and the strategies that will be used to engage them to support the implementation of special and inclusive education will be established so that that framework is really really necessary to pull all stakeholders together and to ensure that all stakeholders understand their their their specific roles understand what they're supposed to do how they're supposed to function all in an effort to ensure that the special education and inclusive education policy is or will in fact be effective so the identified stakeholders are of course suddenly the parents and guardians of learners with send needs and just like the parents we've heard speaking out um um this evening suddenly your voices are of utmost value and your voices need to be heard because you are really important stakeholders within this process um suddenly another set of stakeholders would be the ministries of education health and social welfare or any other ministries such as the justice ministries that deal with some aspect of young people's lives or the lives of young persons these they they too would be critical stakeholders of this process um school and home communities of course the private sector non-profit and the non-government organizations certainly have to have their voices heard throughout um this process and of course we have to um we can't forget those various international organizations um um from whom's um that direction is taken in those things uh next slide please so in order to realize this overall goal the strategic the specific strategic objectives would be the full involvement of the families of um send learners in all educational processes and actions for inclusive education additionally um the strategies for awareness raising with all stakeholders um would have to be outlined all of the stakeholders in inclusive education so that that awareness um I'm raising um even with um the issue that was brought up earlier when it came to stigmatization this is this is really really critical because the stakeholders of this process um are there's a really wide pool of stakeholders who have to all do their part in order for uh inclusive education to to to really um be successful another strategic objective would be that um strategies for the involvement of um international organizations and the third sector would also have to be is um of course a focus all right and of course again like we've said earlier that all of these stakeholders would have to understand what their roles are and how they can support the implementation of special and inclusive education uh next slide John um the answer ah okay that's it so so this is where I I hand over to you so thank you so much ladies and gents for your attention do you have any questions before I hand over to Dion do you have any questions or comments okay well thank you for your attention and I hand over um the proceedings to Dion okay I think um if we have no more questions and no more comments uh I can pass the the button back to Edith and uh to the district coordinator oh yes um I will close on behalf of um EO Joseph unless if you would like to see anything Mr. Joseph then that would be absolutely fine but I would really like to thank everyone for participating in this initial consultation we do recognize the time constraints and we are very appreciative of the fact that you have joined on this and you have remained with us for the duration of this session I would like to of course um the state that this these sessions continue um tomorrow as well as Wednesday and Thursday tomorrow be meeting of districts 3 and 4 Wednesday districts 5 and 6 and Thursday districts 7 and 8 following these initial consultations the consultant team would probably regroup and look at how the proposed policy document can be further enhanced in the interest of satisfying the needs of the relevant stakeholders the consultant team once this policy document is approved by the relevant stakeholders will then fly into St. Lucia to meet with the key stakeholders and of course execute the implementers training implementers workshop with those relevant um in um parties or relevant parties so this is just the initial step and of course you have been very instrumental in that process by availing yourselves this evening and participating in the discussion every single contribution is well received and of course we do understand the frustrations that persons may have and that too is very much well received and we are committed to trying to remedy or address these frustrations as best as is feasible but if there is nothing else mrs. Joseph Dio for district one would you like to say anything for trans um good evening again no miss you okay we okay okay fantastic so thank you everyone thank you very much to the joint board of teacher education team for the extreme or effort that you have applied in putting this policy together the draft and for of course facilitating this week's consultations thank you everyone thank you team jbte and do have a good evening those of you are driving home please get home safely thank you thank you thank you everyone good night good night