Welcome to the Zeldinformer podcast. I am your host as always Alfred Tabax to join today by one person and one person only And that is Nathaniel Murpheljantz Yeah, I'm excited for this week Although it's not this podcast why I'm excited, but and if you guys noticed We had a cool new intro at the very beginning of the video done by the fabulous and fantastic Mr. McIntyre from McIntyre Productions and a bunch of his friends and a bunch of his friends He's been on the show a bunch of times. He's been a great guest. He's a really cool guy check out some of his videos He's great at what he does so go ahead and Just enjoy what he has to do but after the podcast because we've got some cool stuff ready for you Okay, so the first thing that we're gonna talk about is of course We're gonna begin and end with this Okay, so we're gonna talk about the game awards and we just recently learned like as of like maybe an hour and a half ago that the game awards are going to feature an exclusive look at Breath of the Wild Now there's really not a lot to go off of here but as We reported and as has been reported multiple times before is that Jeff Keeley has said that he wants the trailers and games or trailers and games the trailers for the games or the Gameplay footage or whatever to be more than just little snippets of the video like more than just five to 30 seconds kind of like what we got with No man sky, which it was just like screen swipes of things that might be in the game, and then we all know what happened there Sorry always taking shots at that game. They did release an update. It does make the game better bases. Just yeah I mean hey, there's some improvements that are like better than nothing. Yeah, it's it's it's not the game We were promised just yet, but it's it's getting there Aside from that What we're hoping for what I'm hoping for Is a few things and we'll just talk about what we're hoping for for this It's just more of a discussion topic than like oh exciting news look at all the things that we're gonna see Is what I really want to what we really want to see I imagine first off is switch footage because we've seen Six seven hours of Wii U footage of the game now. It's time for us to see switch footage like native switch footage and One of the things that we might get Considering that this is going to be an exclusive Preview of the game is I'm hoping that they're going to give us a release date for the game now This may happen this may not happen based on like you know Nintendo being Nintendo they might say look forward for more information in January to find out when we're gonna release the game But I'm hoping that they'll at least give us like a you know fall or winter 2017 or like, you know Q1 2017 or something like that to where we know kind of in a definitive range where it's coming out Other than that, you know, I'm one of those people that doesn't really want to see too much of the game Like I want to see how it looks on the switch But I don't really want to see like dungeons or anything like that because I don't want that spoiled for me But what about you, Nate? I'm just kind of talking to talk here total opposite of you. I know I know you're According to Nintendo we've seen like less than one percent of the game So what's it gonna kill the show off two or three percent more? And If in that two or three percent it just shows off, you know, like a couple minutes of like an area outside of the starting area Preferably an area we haven't really seen a lot of yet Maybe we seem like a glimpse of it in their reveal trailer, but we haven't really like seen any gameplay there And then you know, I'd really like to see I'd like to see this trailer do something that we haven't seen so far with the game Because all we've seen with the game is basically here's a big open world. You can do anything you want in it Have a good day. You know, that's all they show again It's like okay is that all this game is and we know is all the fans that that's not it. There's story There's towns. There's NPCs. There's things going on, but we haven't seen any of it We just keep her and I'm saying oh it exists, but you know, whatever Yeah, and I'm hoping for like a cinematic trailer like that was one of the things I mentioned a while back Like if this is a really story focused Zelda game Then maybe they're gonna show us like actual cut scenes and like what we talked about last time where Was it last time of their time? It was the time before I Think no, it's Bethany was on when we talked about how they wanted to be up to par with the Hyrule warrior cut scenes So I'm hoping that we're gonna see those kind of like visuals and in movies in Breath of the Wild And hopefully we're gonna see a cinematic trailer at some point putting that together maybe showing us like Some some of the cool updated Graphics in terms of how the movies work, but again, that might just be a pipe dream that might just be me All I want to see is them show thing I guess the biggest thing here because Jeff Keely specifically mentioned like they're gonna have like four or five minutes of mass-infect and drama footage And he said that's kind of the direction, you know, they wanted to go as he said earlier They don't want to repeat No Man's Sky where it's too much of a vertical slice so little of it that overpromises and then you know under Delivers, I think Jeff Keely kind of took it personal With what happened with No Man's Sky because he was part of the hype train for that game And he doesn't want that to repeat. He wants the games to get hyped upon their own merit based on a realistic vision of what that game is and You know, no man's obviously overpromised We've underhanded the bash that game so many times in the past into the ground but I Think with this that tells me we're getting at least three four maybe even five minutes a breath of the wild here Whether or not it's just a trailer whether or not it's like, you know Like an E3 thing with like there's a trailer followed up by like a live-on stage demo or something. I have no idea but I Just want whatever they show Number one, I think we both agree it definitively needs to be switch footage and they need to literally state This is breath of the wild on the switch Or somewhere whether maybe it's just a logo on the footage. I have no idea But like then it needs to be pretty clear that this is switch And I wouldn't even mind. I don't think they would do something like this until the January event But I wouldn't even mind if at some point in this display of breath of the wild They show like one of those silly video slices that show the differences between the switch and the Wii U version Just from a visual presentation standpoint I mean, they don't spend a lot of time on it You know just even if it's just like a five six seven second clip like if the switch version Definitively looks way better than the Wii U version That's something they might want to highlight right here when they have all the hardcore audience paying attention I mean like this game isn't held back because of the switches basically what I hope that message is Did they do that with Twilight Princess HD and do a side-by-side video? They did but again, that's a remake This is a point and they didn't I didn't know if that was them or if that was another Like channel or I don't know if there was a lot of them. So All I know is is you know, this is Nintendo Nintendo in front of the most hardcore video game audience there is An audience that cares about video game awards is a pretty serious gaming audience And you know that that's why you know back in 2014 they showed off, you know at the time Zelda you There in the first place was that's where an audience might be for that game So now that it's coming back like you know now two years later They need to you know really show that not only is breath of the wild the game You should still believe in like don't you know lose the hype you got from E3 Here's why you should also believe in it on the switch and why no one in the right mind should believe The switch is holding this game back Which is what a lot of people fear especially if this game isn't coming out at launch it is coming out You know in June they're worried well once you get so far away from launch You start looking for games that take advantage of the switch and if this game is held back because of the Wii U version visually So I'm hoping that's why I kind of hope they do like one of those little vertical slices Even just for a little bit to show how much better it looks on switch Which might be discouraging to Wii U owners, but to be fair. I don't think Nintendo should care about that. I'm trying to a lot of people watching these awards don't own a Wii U So that that shouldn't even be a thought process that they need to worry about but beyond that I Think everything they show needs to be new I don't want to see any retread as you said we got seven hours of Wii U footage of like one area And that's not even counting all the various demo, you know gameplay footage out there So I really want to see something new They talked about NPCs and villages show us one The only way I say don't show us one as if there only is one Hope not but like with a game this size you got to figure there's multiple villages and you know hundreds of NPCs at least that you can interact with So I would hope they could show us a village even if they don't want to show us any story Like say they don't want to physically talk to an NPC that gives away story, you know elements or whatever You know because that's not what they wanted to do at E3 they can at least show hey look like NPCs exist villages exist. There are things to do here There are things to you know to find out in the world because a lot of what we've seen in the exploration so far is you find a Shrine or you find like an overall boss and that's pretty much it you might find you're like cool things at the fire rod and all Stuff but that's stuff you kind of expect in Zelda. Yeah, I want to see some unexpected things and Ways to show that this game is a modern game not a last-gen game like people are afraid it's gonna feel like So and then that's kind of my theme here is like, you know Defined that this is switch footage show that the switch, you know version looks visually superior to the Wii U Even plays better even plays better whether it's FPS or I mean I don't think they're gonna do that because they're not gonna crap all over the Wii version But I could see them just at least showing visually that it's better on the switch And then just showing that there's a lot to this game beyond just hey you can go anywhere and do anything What's the point of going anywhere and doing or anything if there's nothing to find so they need to show? Village, you know a village and I would like to see even like just entering a dungeon We have not we've heard them say there are dungeons We have never in the history of Zelda gone into a Zelda game release Without seeing footage or screenshots of a dungeon. Yeah, and I'd like to know how many dungeons Specifically because it's again. We've talked about the rumor that there's only gonna be four dungeons Mm-hmm, which is you know Majora's Mask did that.  That's fine And like I said Majora's Mask did that and it worked fine for that game and you know Say what you will that was ranked Zelda and former's top Zelda game So two of the last three years now Sorry that anybody hates that game or disagree you said, you know, I voted for it You can shoot me if you want, but that was the like that that should give you hope if they only say well There's only four dungeons that game was still long There was so much to do in that game and the dungeons were only a part of it. Mm-hmm, and so this game As much as we look forward to dungeons as much as we look forward to shrines and stuff This game is like yeah, all that stuff's nice But we also want to include you know the towns and the shrines like I said earlier the open air Mm-hmm That that whole aspect of the game is just as important as the dungeons if not more important I would love and this is maybe just because it's a dream that was never fulfilled with skyward sword I would love if they end all the footage showing link hopping on a sky like up like a Loftwing on the ground flying up into the sky Into the clouds and just dropping himself anywhere he wants in the world Like the freedom of flight that people wanted in skyward sword like they can do that now There's the console restrictions aren't there So I still think that was I don't think it's that I don't think flights even gonna be in the game But if it is that would like just be such a sick way to be like yeah We've been showing you all this exploration and how you can climb and I can do this Oh, by the way eventually you could fly in a loft wing How how bad is it and then like even if even if they don't show him dropping off the loft wing anywhere he wants You know you can kind of infer that's possible because the sail cloth is in the game or parasail as they're calling it But even if they show like you go up on that loft in up in the sky and you just in the distance See this giant beast just flying and you're like what and then it just ends And then it just tells you like a month and a day or if it just ends of 2017 or whatever Because obviously we want to if it's gonna come out in March. We want to know what's coming out in March Yeah, if it's not coming out in March, I would almost like them to hint At least give a little hint like get the bad news out of the way now that summer 2017 You know if they say summer 2017 or if they say, you know launch window So you know 2017 or wherever where now, you know launch window means not launch day. Yeah We want to make as Nintendo they should probably make sure At this point since they're conflicting reviews, it's gonna come out in summer and then it's gonna come out in March They need to go ahead and settle this and say, okay This is what this is when it's gonna come out like March 2017 or June 2017 or summer 2017 And the thing is if it's coming out in March like in Nintendo knows it's coming out in March They should not shy away from that right now if they have a huge killer like showing for this game It looks awesome and somehow they end in that epic finale that I want them to get in the loft of the sky I see this huge beast that you think you can fight whether or not you can I don't know Nintendo's gonna leave that as a mystery But so you go up to see this big beast and all of a sudden it flashes on the screen if it says March 2017 People are gonna flip like it's gonna go nuts because everyone is worried. This is not making launch So if it is gonna make launch and Nintendo knows it, this is the crowd to tell that to hey look Come check out the switch on January 12th But by the way this game is gonna be their day one So no matter what happens like you need to show up and buy a switch because you're gonna want to play this We've kind of we kind of already transitioned into the release date, which is another yes topic that I had again We're bringing up the release date for Breath of the Wild because game UK is Apparently advertising Breath of the Wild as a March 2017 release. Yes, so You know, there's that yeah, and GameStop has plans to advertise the game in Q1 Even though so we're getting conflicting reports. Yeah, it's weird It's really weird now to be fair From what I read from other like game UK like people who actually shop there It's really hard to believe game UK with any sort of release date for anything Apparently they lie with their in-store advertising all the time to push pre-orders And the fact that game UK has an advertisement out for Breath of the Wild when literally no other retailer in the world does Like there's not even a poster at GameStop for this game So you wouldn't even know it's coming unless you asked an employee about it So it's really weird that they even have advertising out for let alone that it has a date on it Like it's highly doubtful. That's the actual press material Nintendo gave them It's also highly doubtful. Nintendo's gonna do anything about it They're they're quote-unquote press release or whatever Game UK is put out looks like something made in MS shop.  So it doesn't look Nintendo quality to me But they do list it on their website as March 2017 as well That's kind of the big. Oh game UK is that guaranteeing. It's gonna be there. Yeah, just be careful with those retailer dates a Lot of retailers have it listed for December 31st 2017. Some have it listed for June now. I think it was Was it target? There was some retailer out there that that for a little bit listed the game is June 13th I Can't remember which retailer was it's not listed, but it might have been Wal-Mart one of those two Yeah, yeah, well, it was only for a very short time and someone got a screencap of it but it's you know, they've taken that down now, but If Nintendo knows it's gonna be a launch game This is the time to be really confident about it and really hammer home that like I don't it doesn't matter What you've been hearing like this is coming March period Of course at that point they literally cannot backtrack They cannot come out in January and be like, yeah, we said March, but not really and here's the here's the thing about this too This is one of the things like I can we mentioned these guys before I doubt they even listen to us or hear hear us talk But we talked about kind of funny a lot and I was listening to one of their gamecasts one of the most more recent ones and they talked about How while one of the rumors has also said that Mario whatever the Mario 3d game is gonna be a release game So I'm gonna kind of pose this question to you Nate Do you think that it'd be wise to release their Mario? Whatever their new Mario game is like the 3d world not Mario 3d world But the Mario in a 3d space like a huge Mario game alongside their Zelda game as a launch title Or do you think it'd be best to stagger those out? Uh part of me wants to say it's it's better to stagger them But again, this all depends what the actual first-year lineup is for the system Mm-hmm if they've got like 12 massive games hitting Next year which would be you know less that'd be over one game a month. Yeah Then they absolutely should launch with Mario and Zelda, especially if they know, you know a month later You know that's when they have Pikmin coming or a month after that They have Pokemon stars and a month after that they have you know the new smash bros or whatever like whatever they have lined up Like if they have such a killer first-year lineup to me you almost should because I know there's the argument over Oh, you really should only have one killer game at launch. Why? Not everyone cares about Breath of the Wild and Mario is a much bigger franchise Then Zelda in terms of popularity So you could argue it almost makes sense to delay Zelda for so Mario can have the spotlight But they're both gonna have like equal spotlight when you go to pick up a switch There's gonna be a giant Mario and giant Breath of the Wild banner like you're if you like Nintendo games You're gonna grab both day one. It's just gonna happen I don't think Nintendo needs a concern itself Especially if they know the switch is coming in at a killer price like if they know hey 250 people buy a couple games with it like that's that's a good price. That's a good deal You know for basically what you could buy the Nintendo Wii U deluxe version on its own You could end up having the switch with Zelda and Mario Like that's huge and I think also what people have to remember is that Breath of the Wild is not exclusive to the switch Yes, sir It's also a Wii U game Which means that While it would be a killer game at launch It's hard for me to be like man the killer game at the launch of the switch is a cross-platform game So it almost feels like there's actually room for that Mario game to also be there at launch because It would be exclusive. So like you might be able to make the argument at launch I'll just get Breath of the Wild for Wii U, but you can't get the new Mario game for Wii U So I can kind of see both scenarios I think if it exists at all like if Mario's coming at launch, I could see why they might purposely delay Zelda Because Zelda's not an exclusive But I can also see a world where it's really some both. They're ready to go What what? You can't have too much too many good games at the launch of a console You know Mario and zombie you was kind of like the big combination for the Wii U. Why can't it be Zelda and Mario like?  Oh, so mascot for and So like that makes sense to have that as a system seller And if you think about it a lot of people even some of the people that have commented on our Facebook page We have commented on on our posts have said that they're probably just gonna end up picking up the Wii U version at launch Like they don't know if they're gonna get a switch yet So if let's say theoretically if half of the people pay or pick up the Wii U version and half the people pick up the switch that means that It's not pushing systems like you like a Mario game would like they're not getting yeah They're not getting you don't have to buy the switch to play that game. Yeah, that's that's kind of like a Maybe think about any not that this is a cross-platform game But in a way it is it's like saying oh, I want Call of Duty Specifically for the PlayStation 4 so I'm gonna go buy a PlayStation 4 even though I have an Xbox one It doesn't really make that much sense to a lot of people to us to hardcore Nintendo fans We're like, of course I'll go buy a switch day one even if it's like a brick that says switch will be here in two months like Probably probably that'll be my pre-order but That's that's not for everyone not everyone's gonna jump on the switch bandwagon right away And they're gonna want to play Breath of the Wild right away Because there are fans and we'll get to this topic a little later with the fan topics There are fans that feel like they've been burned by Nintendo by by Pushing the release date of Zelda what was originally Zelda you way way way further back than they ever thought was it was gonna be and They're also Burned by the fact that it's now a cross-platform game that the quote-unquote definitive edition with a better graphics and better frame rate Is gonna be on the switch And so that you know that doesn't sit well with him but Moving on and this is this isn't really news, but this is something that I kind of want to just just like think about for a second so Very a few days ago Majora's Mask released on the Wii U virtual console This is like no surprise. They're just gonna keep putting out these games on the virtual console, but With the Wii U second screen and I know that this is like a You know the Wii U's dying, but do you think it would have been a better use? Or do you think it's okay? Well two questions. Do you think it would have been a better use to put the 3ds version on the Wii U or just to Or do you think it's even worth it to put Majora's Mask on the virtual console for the Wii U in general? Like do you think anyone's really gonna play it now? Do you think it's really gonna be that like? You know big of a seller on the virtual console. I guess not really a topic But I was just kind of thinking about this the other day like when it came out. I was like, okay, but you know Not that again, I love Majora's Mask, but like who really cares that it's on the Wii U virtual console now I mean Then we use dying out. So it's easy to argue That adding anything to the virtual library really isn't worthwhile But at the same time it doesn't cost Nintendo anything to really do it and They might get some sales and people might be hoping like the Wii that you could transfer these these sales to the To the switch in some form. We have no idea if that's gonna happen Hopefully we find out that news in January, but I Think I mean like like you said, you know bringing the 3ds version over. I don't really think that that Matters to be honest. Yeah, the 3ds version isn't an HD It would have to be remastered again to even make it look good on On a home console and on top of that This is the virtual console So it's supposed to be the classic games as you remember them. That's sure And Majora's Mask 3d isn't as you remember Majora's Mask It was actually funny because I was reading a comment on Facebook today about a post that that we made the other day about How was Hyrule Field being remade in Unreal Engine 4 which is like the third different version of this we've had posted out there And the comments like I don't really like that this version in Unreal Engine 4 looks so glum and like, you know Looks so dark and I'm like, well, here is the original trailer for Ocarina of Time Like the actual opening for the original game. It's dark. It's glum. In fact, the whole game feels that way Mm-hmm, and some of that was because the N64 did have kind of an issue where like all like all games Basically got a little washed a little bit. So it made things appear darker than they were meant to be So some of that isn't necessarily maybe what the game intended, but that's what the game felt like So, you know, I look at it like with Majora's Mask It's all bright and everything on the 3DS just like Ocarina of Time 3DS Which maybe that's what the original vision of vision for the game is But that's not what me as a player experienced back in 2000 So I Like that. It's the original version. I hate that for some reason they released it and People who have it on their console already aren't getting the $2 thing. Yeah, that's that sucks That should never happen They should never release a game a virtual console without testing out how well it works with that discount system To me, that's just a massive oversight. I don't know how that got out of testing to go live At the same time the Wii U virtual console has been extremely disappointing And I don't just mean from like a game release standpoint And how weird it is that every new console they released they have to reset the whole virtual console That's just weird Which I understand why because they keep changing architecture But they really need to streamline that more and hopefully the switch is the beginning of them doing that hopefully hopefully but People like anyone who plays the original games or like even now if you have the if you're lucky enough to have the NES Classic Edition Those games look like the games were originally supposed to be Okay, I will be right back. Apparently I have to come back train of thought I could leave this in Make everybody listen to awkward silence or me talking or oh, okay So one of the fan topics This is a special one This and they've been taken away and I figured that he might not want to sit through this I'll just read this until he comes back So as some of you know the There's a meme going around and it's the B movie Okay, it's my opinion horrible film, but apparently everybody loves it for some reason Somebody Jake Davis on our Facebook page just said B movie So I'm gonna go ahead and read the script until Nate comes back.   Oh black and yellow. Let's shake it up a bit Barry breakfast is ready coming. Hang on a second. Hello, Barry Adam Can you believe this is happening? I can't I'll pick you up Look at sharp use the stairs your father paid good money for those. Sorry. I'm excited Here's the graduate. We're very proud of you son a perfect report card all bees Very proud ma. I got a thing going here. You got lint on your fuzz. Oh, that's me wave to us. We'll be in row 118,000 bye Barry, I told you stop flying in the house. Hey adam. Hey, Barry Is that fuzz gel a little special day graduation? Never thought I'd make it three days grade school three days high school Those were awkward three days college. I'm glad I took a day and hitchhiked around the hive You did come back different. Hi, Barry. I already grew into my stash looks good. You hear about Frankie. Yeah You going to the funeral?  I guess you could have just gotten out of the way I love this incorporating an amusement park in order day. That's why we don't need vacation Boy quite a bit of pomp under the circumstances Well adam today, we are men. We are be men. Amen. Hallelujah students faculty distinguished bees Please welcome dean buzz. Well, welcome new hive city graduate class of 915 that concludes our ceremony and now begins your career at hunnix industries industries. Yes I heard it's just orient. Oh, whoa Will we pick our job today? I heard it's just orientation heads up Here we go. Keep your heads and antennas inside the tram at all time wonder what it will be like A little scary. Welcome to hunnix a division of hunnesco and part of the hexagon group. This is it. Wow. Wow We know that you as a bee have worked your whole life to get to this point where you can work for your whole life It's kind of like being a kid like adulthood That's the joke Honey begins when our valiant pollen jocks bring the nectar to the hive Our top secret formula is automatically color corrected set adjusted and bubble contiered into this soothing sweet syrup With its distinctive yellow or sorry golden glow, you know, it's honey That girl was hot. She's my cousin. She is yes. We're all because it's right You're right at hunnix. We constantly strive to improve every aspect of bee existence These bees are stress testing a new helmet technology. What do you think he makes not enough? We have our latest advancement the krelman What does it do? What does that do catches the little strands of honey that hangs after you pour it saves us millions Can anyone work on the krelman? Of course, most bee jobs are small ones But bees know that every small job if it's done well means a lot But choose carefully because you'll stay in that job you pick for the rest of your life The same job for the rest of your life. I didn't know that what's the difference You'll be happy to know that bees as a species haven't had one day off in 27 million years So you'll just work us to death. We'll sure try kind of like adulthood. Wow that blew my mind What's the difference? How could you say that one job forever? That's in the same choice to have to make I'm relieved now. We only have to make one decision in life. But adam, how could they have never told us that? Why would you question anything where bees were the most perfectly functioning society on earth You ever think maybe things work a little too well here? Like what give me one example I don't know, but you know what i'm talking about. Please clear the gate rattle nectar force on approach Wait a second. Check it out. Hey, those are pollen jocks. Wow. I've never seen them this close You know, they know what it's like outside the hive. Yeah, but some don't come back. Hi jocks. Hey jocks You guys did great. You're monsters.  I love it. I love it I don't I'm either losing my mind or this is how It's it's done. Okay. I wonder where they are Where they were. I don't know their day's not planned outside the hive flying Who knows where doing who knows what you can't just decide to be a pollen jock You have to be bred for that right look there's more pollen than you and I will ever see in a lifetime It's just a status symbol these make too much of it perhaps unless you're wearing it and the lady see you wearing it Those ladies aren't they are cousins too? Distant distant look at these two A couple of hive herries. Let's have fun with them. It must be dangerous being a pollen jock You know, once a bear pinned me against a mushroom He had a paw in my throat and the other and with the other he was slapping me. Oh my I never thought I'd knocked him out What are you doing during this trying to alert the authorities? I can autograph that a little gusty out there Wasn't it comrades? Yeah, gusty. We're hitting a sunflower patch six miles from here tomorrow six miles. Huh, Barry I would jump a puddle jump for us, but you're not up for it Maybe I am you are not we're going at 0 900 at three j gate I might be it all depends on what 0 900 means. Hey, hunnix That oh honey. That's what it is. Okay, so the transcript I'm reading has replaced certain letters with with other letters for whatever reason so every y is an x And every c is an o and I've been good with the c's, but I you know, I didn't Okay, whatever. Hey, honey, dad, you surprised me. You decide what you're interested in? Well, there's a lot of choices, but you only get one you ever get bored doing the same job every day Son, let me tell you about stirring You got that sticking you just move it around you start around you get yourself into a rhythm It's a beautiful thing. You know dad the more I think about it. Maybe the honey field just isn't right for me You were thinking of what making balloon animals. That's a bad job for a guy with a stinger Janet your son's not sure he wants to go into honey barry. You are so funny sometimes I'm trying not trying to be funny. You're not funny. You're going into honey Oh my gosh, this is so hard to read our son the stir. You're gonna be a stir No one's listening to me. Wait till you see the sticks I have I could say anything right now. I'm gonna get an ant tattoo Let's open up some honey and celebrate. Maybe I'll pierce my thorax shave my antenna. It sounds very painful Shack up with a grasshopper get a golden tooth. They call everybody dog. I'm so proud We're starting work today. Today's the day. I think there's been a cut here Come on. All the good jobs will be gone.  Is it still a thing? Is it still available? Hang on to left one of them is yours Congratulations to the side once you get taking crud out stellar. Wow a couple of newbies. Yes, sir First day. We are ready. Make your choice. You want to go first?  Restroom attendance open not for the reason to think What other reason is there? like what What else would you would you be? Maybe I'm not getting it. Maybe it's some secret like dirty or joke that I'm not getting Any chance of getting the the krelman. I think that's supposed to be kremlin, but I'm not sure Sure, you're on. I'm sorry the that krelman kremlin just closed out wax monkeys always open It just opened up again. What happened a bee died makes an opening.  That's life Oh, this is so hard heating cooling stunt bee pour stir humming inspector number seven lint coordinator strike supervisor might wrangler berry Which do you think I should do berry berry? All right. We've got the sunflower patch at quadrant nine What happened to you? Where are you? I'm going out out. Where? Out there. Oh, no.   You crazy Hello another call coming in if anyone's feeling brave. There's a korean deli on 83rd that gets the roses today Hey guys, look at that. Is that that the kid we saw yesterday? Hold it son flight decks restricted It's okay lu. We're gonna take him up really feeling lucky. Are you sitting here here just initial that thank you Okay We got a rain advisor today and as you all know bees cannot fly and rain so be careful That's always watch your brooms Watch for brooms Honey hockey sticks dogs birds bears the bats also got a couple of ports of root-proving poured on us Murphy's in the home because of it babbling like a cicada That's awful and reminder for you rookies be law number one. Absolutely no talking to humans. So We're gonna have the exception here That bees could talk. Okay. That's what this whole movie is about. Is that bees could talk? They're influencing human politics So you're they're telling me That they can actually communicate with humans and we're not just hearing them speak like if we're watching The dubbed version of the passion of the christ This is they're they're actually they're talking english okay, so All right, lots positions buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz black and yellow Hello, you ready for this hot show? Oh, okay. I think oh no Yeah, yeah, bring it on wind check antenna check nectar pack check wings check stinger checks scared out of my shorts check Okay, ladies. Let's move it out pound those petunias. You striped stem suckers That's mean All of you drain those flowers. Wow. I'm out. I can't believe I'm out so blue I feel so fast free box kite. Wow flowers. This is Hey, I'm back Nate you've missed me. I've been reading the b-movie script the entire time Oh my gosh, because one of our One of our audience members one of our facebook people just said the b-movie for the comments So I got pretty far in maybe about Two tenths of a way into the script so uh that might go up that might not go up, but we'll see Should I get back into my train of thought? Sure. Do you remember what it was? Yes, um so yeah So if you look at the virtual console, you know compared to like the nes classic edition or Even like the original games And the original systems that came out on like nintendo 64 super nintendo, etc Uh the games that we you are not emulated very well They have a lot of I guess input leg Uh, they're also extremely washed out even more than like the original n64 was uh, so The Wii U virtual console isn't good anyways My only hope is that they allow you to transfer the game to the switch and that Emulation is fixed on the switch because as it has proven with the nes classic edition nintendo does know how to emulate their own games really Really well Uh Just the Wii U does not do that. Yeah, like it's it's done well on the 3ds also um Like we have at least I was playing a adventure of link the other day. Um, and It was it was pretty good. Uh, it's all the two. Sorry the adventure link. It was really good. It was it was Well done emulated on on the 3ds, but you're not going to get that type of emulation on On the Wii U. It's sadly this this is not going to happen I don't know why I don't know if nintendo has ever even said why the emulation is just so bad I don't know And like you figure it's it's more than powerful enough to run this stuff Well, and it's weird because the we had okay emulation on it and then what we have with the Wii U is it's not No, not as great, which is bizarre um, so Yeah, I mean, I'm glad it's the original version because that's what it should be on a virtual console Uh, I just I don't know. I I guess I'm kind of with you like I don't really know why they're still releasing virtual console games to be honest Yeah I mean, I mean, I guess You know, maybe it's to fulfill that promise where they said hey, we're not done supporting the Wii U Yeah, if that's the support then I think they need to be done um Well, what are they still releasing virtual console virtual console games on the Wii? Yeah, no, they were they they kept going for some reason and then they shut down the shop or the shop doesn't work or whatever It might just be because I have homebrew on my Wii, but That's the thing they they got rid of all their online services That might be it because I know the we connect 24 thing died a long time ago Um, which is I still don't didn't really understand what that was. Um, but Yeah, we're kind of in agreement there. Um, Nate, have you played pokemon sun or moon yet? No Okay, well then you're not gonna have too much to say about this topic Um, but I just wanted to to talk about impressions and if we recommended the game or not And you've probably seen some of it so you can make some comments here and there Um, and I'll keep this brief But I've been playing a lot of pokemon sun and one of the things that's impressed me is how different it is From past pokemon games and now it's like there's still a lot of the same things like you catch pokemon You're you know, you're training them. You're evolving them. Um, but there's no gyms. Um, There there's there's the island trials. There's um You know the the z moves. There's Team skull. There's the other founder. I'm still not like maybe about halfway through the game Um, I've been swamped because steam sale happened and I got a little crazy Um, that must happen. Yeah, but I you know I love ruby and sapphire. That's probably my favorite series or favorite generation was Generation three and a lot of people are gonna hate me for that. But that was my favorite one I think that's that's really really when I got into pokemon like as a game Like I played it on on the game boy Um, and I collected the cards But I never really got super into the game until like I just fell in love with ruby and sapphire Um, and so I love stuff that was in uh, you know, the the remakes that for the 3ds Um, but it still wasn't like, okay, this is something new something we haven't seen before Speaking about sun and moon on the other hand is something new that we haven't really seen before And while it still has a lot of the old in it, um, it has enough new to feel fresh Um, it has a fresh story to it kind of like x and y did Um, while there was still like the You know evil team that had whatever world domination plans. There was still like a story about a guy in his pokemon Um, then the war and all that stuff.  I can't recommend it enough You know, we're not paid to say this I'm just saying that I really liked the game if nintendo gave me money to say it. I you know, I'd still say it But they're they're not going to contact us on that. So From there, we're going to go to our fan topics and you guys already heard the b-movie one I'm hoping that I decided to keep that in there depending on how long it took. I think it was about five 10 minutes, maybe Something like that, you know, however long it took me to put my kids back to bed Yeah, that we had the whole we had the first maybe two two tenths of the b-movie there Okay, so fan topics All these come from facebook. Uh, our first one is Actually a pretty good one So this is more of a Abstract one. It's not really a question just a topic. So kindre moat says there's so much to talk about the games themselves Maybe focus on the interpersonal Relationships between characters you can discuss how in-game relationships and the stories from previous games could be used to make A zelda franchise worthy movie. It's a pretty abstract idea But I think a lot of legend zelda fans not only enjoy the character development That is commonplace in the games But can relate to the series more through it. So basically Not I guess this is in response to our our uh movie like movie idea So her point is that The driving force behind zelda has has not really been this story because the story has been very You know aside from a few other games the story's been pretty singular, you know zelda gets kidnapped or A form of zelda gets kidnapped. You have to go save her or something happens to zelda. You have to go save her But the thing that makes the games is the characters interactions and that can Influence the story and affect the story kind of like we saw on majora's mask And how the characters interacted with each other In different ways But she seems to say that The character relationships are what really drives zelda for her and for other people Um, so what do you think about that Nate? Uh, she's not wrong Uh, maybe the game that a lot of people praise for its story Uh, really exemplifies her point and that's major's mask. I know we talk about major's mask Maybe a bit more of this podcast than I plan to but uh Reality is that that's usually considered to have one of the better stories in zelda and the main story and it It's cute. It's nice But what makes it really work is the character interactions Um and making you care and invest in that world. Uh, it's actually I don't know if you've seen it. Uh, there's there's a new tv series out called west world Heard about it on HBO. Yeah I just started watching it, you know, I think it's like eight or nine episodes in now and I'm I'm on episode three Uh, and you know the premise of that of that show is basically a bunch of rich people Um, and this like company that created fake people To give rich people like their own little western fantasy hence called west world Um And these fake people, you know, they're not real people But like they start remembering things and having like people like emotions and stuff and They get all that through character interactions And like, you know interacting with the rich people that pay to come, you know, have fun in this world Um, you know, or or even sometimes they get it from interactions with, you know, other fake characters And I kind of look at it as all the story kind of in the same way where What makes you really invest in the world are the characters and it's really weird saying that because This is a game where the story usually doesn't give you a lot to go off of Um, you know, as you said go save the princess That that's very mario-esque Um, peach has been kidnapped go deal with it There's not a lot of driving force necessarily with that initial story, especially like Oh in orc ring of time, you know, zelda's taken away or running away with impa I would gander d'or chasing her but up to that point. You really have no reason to give a hoot about zelda Um, yeah, you met her once okay That there's nothing even about that encounter that makes you be all Yeah, I should really really really care about this character Not really. I should kind of tell you that maybe you're important But okay, it's sort of the great deku tree and I cared way more about him than I did her Uh, and he was dead by that point in the game kind of kind. I'm sorry kind of dead, uh, mostly Yeah, it's one of those things where uh, zelda doesn't really necessarily have like this lot of individual drive usually associated Maybe the wind waker did it best Uh Like kind of by a default drive because the very first character you meet in the wind waker is your sister And she's the one that gets kidnapped.  This is your biological sister like you You know you the big brother and your grandma is old and can't do anything about the fact she was captured So like it's kind of on you to go do something um And it really makes you care So that that's a kind of unique situation, but again a character interaction is what made me care about that um So I I kind of agree with her and I think if Zelda like a zelda movie or a zelda, you know even like a tv show Is ever going to take off as a real thing like I still believe it needs to be its own original concept and all that But it's going to be how they handle character interactions because like that's how like even westworld or game of thrones Like these big production hpo shows they work because of character interaction. Yeah, and I'd equate that to like um Say what you will about this season because I haven't actually watched the past two episodes But the walking dead is mostly about how the characters interact sure. That's what makes you care about that show That makes you would up until this point probably for a lot of people. Um, but yeah, I haven't watched any of the season yet Oh, I didn't like last season much The the you watch the show for the characters not because it's got zombies in it like I've always described it to people as a drama with zombies Not a zombie show with with drama in it Yeah, because it's kind of like everything is happening around them and they're not like directly involved We're just seeing how this group of people moves through and that's kind of how I view, you know, um Like in in zelda it's it's more like they're more involved, but at the same time like Focus more on the characters focus more on who they are with their motivations are what drives them kind of a thing because that's what really pushes You know a story is the character. Yeah If you can have a great idea for a story But unless the characters are involved unless the characters are into it unless they're Fully fleshed out you're gonna have a really dry really bland story No matter how great the plot sounds the characters need to be fleshed out for it. Um And so I agree too I think that the characters have been like in their relationships are the most important part of a zelda game because like for example Even twilight princess like our links relationship with minna um is kind of like The not the foundation for the game, but it is in a way The foundation for the game because we don't know a thing about zelda in that game We don't have a reason to really care about her Our our goal halfway through the game becomes about minna like when she gets sick We're taking her to Zelda to get healed Um and and it's it's the relationship between the two whether it's forced whether it's uh voluntary This is still the driving force behind that part of the game And again, like you said, uh same thing like ilia is the equivalent of aero except not really our sister Um, yeah her kidnapping puts us on the quest And so it's the the character interactions that really drive it because the story is pretty much samey Like you're not really getting anything different from from game to game Aside from like majora's mask or breath of the wild I mean even look at breath of the wild Uh, you know, I know you just mentioned it as a little different. Is it really the story we know so far is We sealed a dark beast away and he's about to break free and destroy the world sounds like a link to the past to me Yeah, like like it like it sounds very much like a very classic typical zelda story That's what we think that's what we know the only thing that's weird about it The only thing that's different is there's that voice talking to you Which you know, a lot of people presume is zelda, but as darin so aptly pointed out in the staff chat yesterday It's not confirmed. She's zelda. So they confirmed. She's a girl to be honest We just kind of infer based on the tonal tone of the voice But uh, it's one of those things where I I think you know, we brought up a lot of really good examples of like good tv shows or you know Mostly good tv shows but even movies Um that really focus on the characters like you know, say what you want about say like the harry potter series Of movies, you know, I know some people who didn't really like it because you know pay books forever Um, and that's fine. The books are I think the most people could say the books are objectively better than the movie series Yeah, uh, but what made the movies work for those who who weren't really book readers is character interactions You cared about ron hermione and harry because of how they interacted together and how they interacted with the other characters And if you cared about the other characters, you did it through the interactions of those three characters with that particular character Um, and that's kind of what makes us care in zelda and you know, I know we brought up some good examples But my fear and this will always be my fear if zelda becomes a tv show Especially becomes a tv show is one of my all-time favorite book series ever is a sort of truth series It is an amazing book series. I still haven't finished. I don't know why I haven't finished it Maybe I just my life got busy growing up Um But it's a ton of books. I can't remember how I was book five or six Uh, but just a fantastic fantastic story And in fact now that I bring it up and probably just start all over again Um, but they made it into a television series Called legend of the seeker and legend of the seeker Tried to take the books which were very character based very character interactive based And it kind of sort of tried to make it into like those old hercules and zena shows Uh, which those old hercules and zena shows worked really really well at the time um, but You you tried taking a heavy story heavy narrative heavy character interaction based uh book And try to condense it down into like all these little side quest stories That nobody cares about because you don't know like every episode you're just meeting new characters that you No context on why you should care about them And I think if that it would have been more like a hercules or zena that's different because There's legends that stuff is based on but none of that's based on a book Uh, or or like a long ongoing series whereas legend of the seeker was based on of this giant massive book series you know called the sort of truth series and it It it was like a disservice to the book You also have to think about the the director and the creator of that Sure, um sam rehmie like yeah, I'm I'm not his biggest fan Um, he has he did do the evil dead evil dead to army of darkness, which are you know classic films um, but they're not really like Like man that that character like ash is such a deep character like that's not why you watch the show Maybe why you watch the tv show. Maybe not why you watch the movies Sure, and you know, that's the thing I liked the legend of seeker show as its own show Like I like I really like the old zena and hercules shows So like I liked what this show was doing It just should not have been doing it with this universe And I worry that it's all that becomes a tv show that it might try to do this little side questy Kind of every episode the side quest that barely progresses the main overall like story arc Um And you know if you look at the good shows out there the shows that have lasting power like legend of the seeker went two seasons I mean, yeah, hercules and zena lasted a lot longer back in the day But that was back in the day would those kind of shows last today? Probably not no And and because things have gotten better. I mean you bring up the walking dead Yeah, it it doesn't always feel like there's a lot of like four-road momentum with the story arc But that's because the series is setting things up in every single episode that leads to that and Legend of the seeker wasn't doing that and I worry that That's what's going to happen Uh, if a zelda series does that where you know, yeah Obviously that comes out a lot a lot down to director and direction of it And you would think they'd be a lot more careful But they also like legend of the seeker tried to be a lot more playful and a lot more like let's just make this show for everyone And like nintendo likes doing that So I almost worry that like zelda isn't the right kind of series I think to do that with I think zelda needs to have more of a the walking dead or like an hbo Or even like a serious like you know It doesn't have to be super serious But you know kind of like house of cards netflix like it needs to be kind of one of those high budget Um shows that takes itself seriously because the fans take zelda seriously Yeah, I think the the way to do that Before we got a zelda film we probably and and this is just again wishful thinking is that we get some sort of metroid film Um because that that is a more one of their more story steeped games Metro is weird it is But it has a story to it. Yeah, it does but like 90 percent of every metroid game has nothing to do with the story. I know But like so like that's why like when you're like, oh, I'd like to see a metroid game It's like why the entire story metroid can be told in like 20 minutes But like so really is not a lot of story That could be like an hour long Like netflix film that they do. Yeah, like maybe a film. Yeah, like a one-off film not saying a tv series I'm saying like that could be like a foray into film for them and then go from there like well That's that's an inherently dark series or a dark game Um, so maybe they'd be like, okay Well, did the audience respond well to a dark metroid or serious metroid? Um And if they did maybe we'd get a more serious held again. Like I'm sure there's going to be like laughs and stuff in it um, like daredevil and Luke cage are very serious shows, but they're you know, they still have fun. Well, they got their comedy. Yeah Even Jessica Jones and that whole universe like they're they all they all make serious or comedy pretty well But yeah, that's the kind of thing like I'd like to see that from a Zelda series Um, but I think that they try You know again, they don't really value metroid that much obviously Right that they would probably put that out there as like they're hopefully as their first foray into films and be like Okay, well, how did this do to people like it? Yeah, see I think honestly the first foray is going to be like an animated mario movie I think it's going to be an animated zelda film or animated zelda series or something I mean, it's going to be zelda mar. I mean they already have pokemon. Yeah, they've had that for a long time but like I think If they're going to do a movie or anything at all It's going to be one.  It still feels niche. Yeah And you know, that's something a lot of Nintendo's ip's are actually pretty niche metroid itself is niche Yeah The number one game would like the most sold game ever was like 4.2 million units And that was metroid prime And that would be considered very bad sales for breath of the wild if that if that's like what breath of the wild sold So like just the expectations and the audience size just isn't really there for metroid I think to pull off a film is like a first go to But like an animated zelda, you know an animated mario, which They used to have like the the super mario super show back in the day. Oh, like, you know trying to you know I know there's not a lot of story like zelda makes more sense to to become a movie I think then mario does yeah mario is also more popular And as they kind of prove it those pickman shorts You don't really need to have a lot of story to make something entertaining Well and say what you will about it sonic boom the show is actually kind of good It is not kind of it. It's legit. It is good. It has Genuinely here's the thing moments in it. I thought I thought it was gonna be bad But maybe I'm just bad. I liked the old sonic cartoon. Well, I did too. Which one? I thought it was like a very good cartoon like the with jaleel white. Okay. Well, they all are jaleel white, but um Like I like sonic underground like chili dogs. Yeah, I like sonic underground I liked the the original sonic show like those were good But also like sonic boom Okay, we'll put it this way. It's not like teen titans go. It's not a train wreck. Um, that's an awful show in every way It's it's good and as much as people like that that kind of thing would function for a mario show I feel like they could pull up a mario show in the sonic boom style where it's like a week by week type of thing Like there's no over arc if it could be an overarching story, but it'd be very loose Yeah, see that so again like what legend of the secret I think works for an animated mario show Because there really doesn't have to be an overarching Like here's a general story where we know an end is coming like you're gonna know the trope is always going to be all Peach got kidnapped again Or you know, like like you always know like it'll become a trope in that of itself kind of kind of like, uh Like they try to do with the zelda show with excuse me princess. Yeah, um, it's just didn't work It worked years later That's popular now Yeah, so yeah, I I could see that you know mario working more as a tv show than a movie and zelda I think makes a lot more sense is like a movie series Although I think it can work as a tv show Especially as I said the netflix hbo style where no commercials each episode literally is an hour Um, because because I think you know, it would have to be heavy character and story interactions and I don't know I feel like we've had this whole conversation before because we were You know casting a movie and we had to kind of decide what kind of movie did we want it to be Okay, well, we're gonna hit on one more topic then we're gonna get into our Final thing. Um, this topic comes from john mccann It says as zelda continues to make the push forward in the modern age of gaming How does the sense of wonder and the mystery compare to other adventure rpg titles such as skyrim and the witcher On top of that, how is it that the essence of zelda has never been able to be truly replicated? It's tough to talk about a game as like zelda because it really is one of a kind Um, and I think most of that like a lot of that has to do with what we just talked about in terms of character Um And this is one of my things with with a lot of early nintendo games is that a lot of The games had character they had characters, but a lot of those characters had character Like there was specific things about them like that you would recognize Um, the specific things about them that are just Yeah, no touch on that point because you know It's easy to argue that a lot of nintendo's new ip's over the years haven't had like that kind of magic Um Except for splatoon. No, I know I don't know how splatoon. Yeah, I don't know how splatoon did it Because like your actual character that you are really doesn't matter. Well, it's not necessarily that It's like the mannerisms of the character and how they act and what they do and how they look And that's one of the things like you'll hear me if anybody brings this up at any point I will rant on it forever But that's my problem with the luigi's mansion to the dark moon luigi's mansion each ghost had its own character like the Portrait ghosts they were different. They had things that they talked about they looked different They had different ways of acting and going about what they did whereas luigi's mansion dark moon All of the ghosts are pretty much the same Um, there really wasn't a lot of like there was character in them, but it was like one character like they were all like Pretty much the exact same type of ghost Um, and that was what was missing for me was like those portrait ghosts and those characters I mean even like you brought a splatoon Characters don't have to talk to have have that like character about it that that makes it memorable like uh Well, plus like there are side characters in there. I mean you can't forget the news crew. Yeah and like like they have very um specific personalities and looks Um that especially when you're in japan like you instantly recognize they have billboards of that stuff Yeah, and the thing is like there's a reason why when we saw in the breath of the wild footage The corokes come back while we got excited for that It's because they're characters that we recognize as as being playful and and having something It's familiar to us. Um And it's almost meaningful. Yeah, it's meaningful and that's one of the things that a lot of these games don't have is you know, you go from Fall out to fall out two to fall out three to fall out four and like yeah There's the brotherhood of steel and stuff, but you're never like oh, yeah I'm so excited to see the brotherhood of steel It's just like it's something that you get used to and something that's recurring But it doesn't have like that kind of magic to it I can't really speak on behalf of the witcher because I've only played parts of the witcher three Um, but I don't know if there's again There's probably not that same type of magic where you see those characters and they say when you're like Oh my gosh, I'm so excited that they're back kind of a thing. Uh, there is in the witcher. There is Yeah, the witcher one two and three has a lot of continuity between the characters Um That like there's characters that pop up in witcher three that you haven't even seen since witcher one and you just get Like pumped that they somehow found their way back to the story And that's that that's what I'm talking about like that kind of stuff is what makes Zelda like It makes it part of what makes it so special is that there's those characters that you remember Um, because like we were talking about like you don't remember Zelda like man that story really resonated with me Like deep inside like him rescuing the princess helped me defeat my inner demons Because I am the princess and I need rescuing. That's not like you don't just not you don't identify with that like that You're like, oh well this character like um Gosh, what was his name the guy that was always trying to work out in scoured sword that was trying to like be better Like that kind of a character like something someone with that memorable of of a presence Um, it's that so memorable. You don't remember his name. Yeah, you know, I remember what he looks like um But he's the fifth tannin of selva if you know what i'm talking about like he like that kind of a thing like the characters The characterization of the characters are what really Makes the game special um, and how they act like even even ganador himself like The the pure evil type like That's that's that's memorable. That's like it's it's awesome To see it's awesome to hear Um, I mean, I don't really know if i'm explaining this well like like you said it's it's really tough to talk about a game as like zelda because It really is one of a kind there's really not a lot of words you could say like To describe what really makes it special. I mean, you can always say it's nintendo nintendo has that special brand of magic that Yeah, um Yeah, I I kind of disagree. I think there's a lot of games that are like zelda. Uh, I I think um the reason people don't Don't realize it. I guess is because they don't uh Everyone plays zelda for a different reason, right? Um, you know, you we just went on and on about the story to be honest. I don't give two crafts about zelda's story That's not why I play zelda. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I've never played it for the but but like I could talk Deep and passionately about the story Because of how big of a fan I am and how closely Yeah, I might not play the game because of the story. It doesn't mean I don't pay attention to it Which is partially why I don't really care about spoilers because like I think the only thing you really spoil in a game To me is story and since zelda story is always so simplistic anyways What are you really spoiling that I don't expect to happen regardless? um That's why I I don't really care about story spoilers for zelda, but It's one of those where I think there's been plenty of games like zelda It's just those games more define who they are targeting per se Nintendo tries to take zelda and literally make it target everyone And arguably that's been one of the biggest cruxes of the series as they're trying to please too many people at once And they end up not pleasing anybody very well And you know that You can say what you want like I love skyward sword, but there's so many people that hate skyward sword And they tried to make that game appeal to literally everyone who bought a wee And that's just a bad like you can't blue ocean zelda, but that's what they tried to do And you can argue that's what they've been trying to do for a long time um, I mean the blue ocean wind waker Literally, um No, so you could see where they were trying to you know do that like you can even argue with wind waker Yeah, it's not really a kiddie game, but that art style choice was meant to appeal to a younger audience Um, even if they were trying to make it you know serious enough for adults and everything regardless They were trying to expand zelda's reach with that game Um, and they don't need to do that with zelda But nintendo keeps doing it and sometimes I love them for it other times I'm like you're kind of hurting the series popularity by what you're doing Which is the exact opposite of what they think is going to happen when they do it um but You know it be so beyond that beyond zelda sometimes having I I guess I think sometimes zelda has an identity crisis with itself um The creators like now we're getting this giant open world zelda game, which we haven't had since 1986 So it's like it's been 30 years and now we're getting back to what zelda used to be Uh, it's really weird What zelda does and that's why like for me it's harder to say Yeah, there's not any games like zelda because no other franchise can get away with having this mini identity crisis Over 30 years. It's weird to say it's getting triforce heroes level based multiplayer One other franchise could throw that out there and get away with it and not kill itself Well, they try to do one other franchise can keep a top down and a 3d thing going that do entirely different things Um, so in that way zelda is very very unique Uh, and somehow has gotten away with it over all these years I don't know if zelda fans just have a lot of patience or zelda fans are slowly becoming more like me Where we just enjoy so many different types of games that it's really hard for them to make a zelda game I'm not going to enjoy Not just because zelda's on it, but just because I enjoy all these different types of games I love lynx crossbow training, but I love arcade shooty shooty things And that's what lynx crossbow training is So like how can I not like an arcade shooty shooty thing when I already like those and it's zelda branded like I'm gonna like it It's just I'm weird like that um But I think in terms of what zelda does at its core, which I know people have a hard time trying to figure out What that core is, uh, I think there are other games that do do that Uh, they just aren't as scattered as zelda is in identifying what that game is Uh, like here's a series that that that you love that literally compared itself to, uh To zelda darksiders. That's what I was thinking that game is It's literally like structure point for structure point a zelda game But They do enough different things with it to create kind of their own vibe And they very much know what that game is and they continue that in the darksiders too And if a darksiders 3 ever happens, it's going to continue that in the darksiders 3 Like they have a continuity to it all that zelda doesn't always have because zelda is a very fragmented each game Typically stands on its own you don't need to have any prior knowledge And that's true with like even the witcher, you know, you don't need to play other witcher games to play witcher 3 But you're going to get more out of it if you have It's the thing like um, I have What was I thinking about um Like it's funny that you mentioned that uh We're going back to what zelda used to be because zelda was only really like this once Maybe twice if you want to count the link to the past No, the past wasn't even close. Yeah, so like this it was only like this once So zelda's never really used to be anything We're just kind of returning to 1986 with this game exactly um and that to me it exemplifies I I guess maybe what makes zelda so unique is it can get away with this Yeah, like this isn't what zelda has been in 30 years And now it's that again and everyone's excited for it and it's like Maybe that's what it should be. I mean some people think maybe this is what zelda should have been the whole time um You know, it could have been literally the skyrim of open world games and just Be the definition of open world, but uh, that's not the direction the series went in so Yeah, I mean It's I don't really disagree with you on any of that. I know it's kind of boring that I don't disagree Yeah, I know well, you know and just like other examples like a lot of people think Dark souls is what zelda would have been if it would have stayed with what zelda one established And I could see that you play dark souls It has a very zelda one like feel to it and you could argue that's a zelda like game Even though it feels like the polar opposite of what is it's difficult at first starters and zelda games usually aren't But you know, it's just it's a very zelda-esque Experience if you play the very first game or you know, you could even look at like shovel knight That's a very zelda to like experience like there are zelda like games out there in different skins It's just those games and those series know what they are and they stick to it What makes zelda? I guess quote-unquote special. I just air court. I hate air quotes is uh Is the fact that it's gotten away with not really defining exactly what it is over 30 years Is it a multiplayer game? Is it? Uh, you know a single player game that's heavily story-based. Is it a top-down game? Is it linear? Is it open world? You know There all these different words you can use to describe zelda because zelda changes what it is with every single release And their excuse for that is that it's a legend and legends changes to get passed down Which but this is all gameplay. So I know I know I'm just saying like that's that's that's the excuse It's a bad excuse So yeah, like I I'd say like we've talked about Uh, when the dark souls creator said that it's not a fair comparison Um, but I think it kind of is because well, I think he was just trying to say like out of respect for zelda We should not be compared to zelda. Could you imagine though like in a parallel universe? If zelda had taken the route of dark souls and just gotten like extremely dark and harder Than it is right now Yeah, what about it like could you just imagine that like universe like it? Yep, that'd be an interesting interesting place to live in Because I think zelda'd be a lot different than it is now. I don't even I don't know if it'd be a household name them And I think that's the thing is that I think it would have been a household name uh for totally different reasons like if you look at the series, right? Zelda one was really really popular Yes, zelda two for very obvious reasons even though I love it was not was not as popular Only to the past was even less popular than zelda two like everyone's like only to the past is this big pinnacle It actually undersold the previous two games So like the series was losing popularity. It kept changing what the you know like only for the past Oh, that's a return to what the first game is kind of not really it got it's not truly open world Um, but I mean it kind of sort of is like it really wasn't what what the first game was So yeah, people loved it. But again, that was you know a downtrend in the series You know a Linux awakening did okay, but again first zelda game on a handheld I pretty much every first game in a series on the game boy did really really well back then And then a creative time came up which redefined again You know what people expected of the series and then overtook zelda one as the number one selling zelda game And then if you look at sales outside of twilight princess It's kind of been on the client again ever since um And a lot of that is because even in those early games zelda just did not define what it was um And As I said, I guess that's what makes zelda special is that it doesn't have a true definition for what I mean It's an action adventure game outside of that Like pure genre definition I think one of the even then it dabbles into rpg now at times Well, you mentioned that that it tries to apply to or uh appeal to everyone and that's one of its downsides But I also think that's one of its benefits because I know that as a kid If zelda was a rated r or rated r rated m dark souls esk game I probably wouldn't have been able to play it like I wouldn't have been into zelda as a kid because Yeah, but if you look at today the most popular game games that when kid kids besides like minecraft are rated are like I know I'm just saying like as a kid back in the 90s or back in the 80s when this like back when age ratings Mattered to parents. I don't know I mean, they did to most people that I knew Um, but still like okay, there's a lot of people that like of course, I'm in the bible belt of texas. So Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say my own little bubble here. You got a little little religion bubble there help me video games of the devil Um, I'm a libertarian trapped in a republican stain. Um, oh my god, but It's it's kind of like that. I I don't know if it would have been as popular Like I don't know if that's something that like, you know parents would have played with their kids or kids Would have played with their parents if it wasn't, you know Based around like, you know, it's it's still dark. Okay enough time was dark But it was still like this is still kind of a game for kids Um, and so it is its downfall because it holds it back But it also spreads its appeal which it's it's a good thing and a bad thing like it's again it's not yeah, well as I said, um the the problem with like the game spreading its appeal Is that it usually doesn't work. Yeah. No, it doesn't it when you try to um, it actually fractured the fan base even more Which uh, like if you look at Breath of the Wild, right I don't look at Breath of the Wild as the game that's trying to appeal to everyone It certainly didn't feel like that when I played the demo Well, it's not because a lot of people are upset with the way that it's going They say it's too western Like this feels like a game that is appealing one two gamers who are heavily experienced in games Because you need to be if you're gonna get good at this game Two it's appealing to veterans of the series who are fans of other open world games like The Witcher or Skyrim Uh and three They're trying to make it feel as natural of an evolution from Zelda one as they can Nintendo's own website has been releasing comparisons to Zelda one Like very clearly they are trying to capture what Zelda one captured And Zelda one, I know that you know a lot of people played it as a kid They had that you know Yeah, that that's all the rap commercial with kids and everything like but zelda one today would not be a kids game Back then all games were hard. So yeah, really didn't matter But like in today's realm, you know, that's not the case kids are playing games on like tablets and stuff They're not introduced to these super difficult games Or like the original mario brothers is a pretty difficult That's what i'm saying like depending on like because of when it was released and because of Like how games were viewed back then. I don't know if zelda would have flown as a rated m dark souls type game Oh, you don't have to be rated m to be like dark. No, I know But I mean like just like that type of gate like that Like for for the purpose of what an illustration. I was using like a rated m game in dark souls Like I don't know if it would have been as widely received or as popular as it is now even though it's still niche It's still pretty popular I don't know if it would have been as as as popular as it is now had it not had the roots it does Because say what you will dark souls is a very niche game Like that's not that doesn't apply to everyone. Like I know people that will not play that game Whether because it's hard or not, but well It's very interesting because You know zelda, you know, we've been talking about the identity crisis has had You know, whether or not it's been a good thing or not, you know Because nintendo's goal has always been to try to make zelda like mario and literally be for everyone And that's been kind of a divisive thing that's split the fan base over the years Uh, well, even when they tried not to make it for everyone people still split up over it What what game is that you want to say twilight princess or win waker? The the you know the funny thing about twilight princess That was more for everyone than all their other games were because twilight princess was a Recognization of the gaming market in north america at the time where kids were playing call of duty Kids were playing, you know morrowind kids were playing these realistic hardcore looking games They were not playing mario Or stuff like that. In fact, it turned out the people still playing mario were soccer bombs and You know, you know older adults that grew up with it. It wasn't even a lot of kids playing mario at that time That might have changed now. I don't know. I still whenever I see a kid with a with a ds or 3ds I still never see them playing mario So I still wonder if mario is even appealing to kids anymore but the You know in terms of zelda, I just Twilight princess just felt like it was going with the times one of the rings was really big And because of that twilight princess sold really really well And I think twilight princess really felt more like for everyone Then people want to believe like nintendo believes the wind waker is more for everyone twilight princess was rated t So it's for adults But that's not actually how the world works like to even today kids like I was just talking to a seven year old At My other job because I work at elementary school and she was just asking me, you know to name to name some Movies so here I am naming like trolls frozen Aladdin You know just go through all these kid movies that I've seen and all of a sudden she's like hey, have you seen suicide squad? I'm like, yeah She's like, yeah, so have I went to the movie theater for it.  Yeah Totally inappropriate in my mind, but that's the thing kids are Consuming this kind of content sooner and sooner and sooner and wanting more and more of it Which I don't know if that is necessarily a bad thing per se because like kids when I was you know I kept thinking when I was younger kids were going to radar movies. I guess I didn't think much of it back then. Well, you know, of course back then it wasn't so much new today or anything You know some swearing but There was already swearing and violence going on in the playground man. Yeah um but it Like I think that's twilight princess was actually catering exactly to That everyone audience and nintendo just can't realize that And I think what they're going to find out with breath of the wild at least what I hope they find out because I I really hope this game crosses like 10 million sales. I really wanted to be the best selling game in the series Assuming that it's good enough to be obviously I haven't played enough of it to know But assuming it is as good as I hope it is Breath of the wild seems to be catering Exactly to the audience that grew up with zelda And I think breath of the wild is going to end up becoming the new entry point for new gamers Because I think people who have never played zelda but have played any of these other games I'm going to look at the breath of the wild and be like I got to try that. Yeah And I think it's going to end up being more for everyone than nintendo thinks And I think by nintendo literally trying to design their game for the people who grew up with zelda um, it's going to end up being Uh It's going to end up doing exactly what they keep trying to do with the series would always fail at um, so like Plus, I really hope it sells well so nintendo like thinks this should be the way the series goes in the future And honestly twilight princess sold really well and it didn't make any dang difference for the next game So chances of breath of the wild actually making a difference in the future is probably slimmed in on we'll see Because this is nintendo. Yeah, you know, we're going to go back and get the win raker 3 which I would love But I mean it it would feel like a step back after breath of the wild But nintendo does what they want and I guess that's part of zelda's unique charm You know getting back to the original question like there's not a lot of games like zelda because zelda is just weird man It lives in this world that I don't think any other franchise but mario Can survive lives in a world where it ignores the world Yeah, it's weird. It's like all of our fans really love this game. So let's give them the exact opposite and they'll still buy it Oh fans were excited by link between worlds. Well, this is like a good time to throw out a level based multiplayer game Based on outfits Yeah, the yeah, I mean anything is I really love these games, but like I'm a weird gamer I like a lot of weird things Um a lot of I recognize a lot of zelda fans aren't really going to be cool with that But for some reason nintendo thinks they will be um And as the sales of triforce heroes show they really weren't cool with it um so I I don't know the zelda is very unique But I as I said, I do think there's tons of games that are like so I'd even argue the witcher series is a lot like zelda It just doesn't hide the fact. It's an rpg clearly an rpg zelda kind of dances that line between action adventure and rpg But like clearly tries to define itself as not being an rpg The breath of the wild might be changing that So like I I guess you can argue genre wise or some difference But to me like that's why I think I actually love the witcher series so much because it feels like zelda did accept that There's things that like the witcher and dark souls And all these other, you know Darksiders like there's one thing those games do that I've always wanted zelda games to do they just don't And I like the continuity of those games Um and zelda doesn't have that zelda's always been unique in that every game you could just play that You don't need any other story and you could do that with these other games, but like you're rewarded for playing the prior games. I don't know it's So like I want a breath of the wild too and I wanted to build off of the end of breath of the wild and it's never going to happen You know You could argue maybe we get a Majora's Mask style game, but did Majora's Mask really build off of our community time? I mean kind of but not really It really had nothing to do with after enough time Um, so Yeah, it's I maybe I'm weird. I don't know. I know I'm weird. So I'll stop talking now. All right, so That's that's our fan topics And now for the thing that Nate thought he was going to be worried about but he's really i'm still worried about So as we talked about earlier that I was going to begin and end with this The game awards 2016 are coming around on thursday And that means that we're going to see a lot of games get awards and a lot of games get not get awards Sure, but I wanted to take this time for the two of us. There's you know, there's probably gonna be more but you know There's just two of us now to to vote or to say to vote on what we want to win because You know we like predictions. Yeah, we could do predictions And then we say like well, I you know, I predict that this will win, but I want this to win Sure now I gotta bring up the nominee of this dang it. No, I'll read it off Well, I'm still gonna bring it off because I'm gonna forget. Okay, so For game of the year, okay, they have a whole section on their site. Yeah for game of the year We'll start from the bottom from the top worker way to the bottom Um, so the biggest award there is game of the year recognizing a game that delivers the absolute best experience across all creative and technical fields You have doomed by id software and Bethesda inside by play dead Overwatch by blizzard entertainment titanfall 2 by respawn on electric arts and unchartered for thieves and by nutty dog and si e Sony interactive. Yeah, so Out of those I've played doom inside overwatch and uncharted I you know, I don't really think titanfall 2 is gonna win. That's just me um I Liked overwatch or I like overwatch. I constantly play the game. Um, I don't know if it's necessarily game of the year like Man, this this is a game that is pushed Like gaming forward I mean, like it has in some ways like free dlc type of stuff But like it's not something that I look forward to or like look at like this is the pittacle. We've reached the top In terms of storytelling or in terms like it's kind of great story if you watch the shorts It doesn't feel as revolutionary as say world of warcrafted in 2004 I mean, it's still it's still a really good game with really interesting characters a really fun Playstyle. It's just not like I mean, it's a blizzard game. Yeah, it's it's good Like that's no shocker. Every game blizzard releases is good um And then in terms of doom I like that's just it's just a straight up adrenaline shooter. Um, well, that's what doom is. Yeah, I know It's got a story. I don't know if I'd say that that's like Oh man, this is this is the best game that's come out this year And here's the thing like I've heard a lot of people talk about inside So I decided to give it a go for myself yesterday Um played the whole game through in like two or three hours Yep, I I'm probably gonna get hate for this. I didn't like it. I got I it's okay I didn't really not every game for every person. I know I just I didn't think it was like Man, this is this is fantastic gameplay or fantastic storytelling. Like I didn't really get it Right, I'm gonna know that I probably should Um, because like I love abstract things and I love abstract movies Um, and let's figure it out. I just I didn't get inside Um, and I don't know like I disagree that it's a nomination for game of the year My my vote is gonna go towards towards uncharted 4 That game like I felt something break in me as I realized that this was like the ending of the the series Like uncharted 3 was great and I was like, okay, I'm fine with this being the last game But after the ending to uncharted 4 like the conclusion like the final conclusion I was like This is like the perfect ending to the perfect series of video games And I think that that game that game deserves game of the year fantastic acting storytelling Um graphics gameplay all of it packaged and uncharted. Not even always does a good job What do you think Nate? Uh, there's the game I want and then the game I think is going to take it Yeah, I think inside's going to take it, but I want uncharted 4 it went I don't think inside has a shot really? Um, I know This is not one that's decided by fans I don't believe any uh, I believe only the fans choice ones are yeah. This is a jury selected. Yeah This is the jury selected one So so it does have a better chance than it normally would because I think if it was just fans It would take like a reddit movement to make it Take over because It's I played it. I haven't beaten it. I only played it for like an hour Um, it's I I'm the opposite of you. I think it's fantastic But at the same point it's also an indie game basically going up against AAA titles Yeah, and in a game of the year award that would be fan base. It would have no shot Uh, but I also think that all these other games listed um I think the panel is going to lean heavily Towards something like uncharted 4 I think uncharted 4 is going to end up getting the win because of the weight for it The culmination of what it means Uh, and the fact that it is like the de facto playstation 4 game PlayStation 4 has not really and I might get burned for this PlayStation 4 has not really had a de facto game like this is why you buy a playstation 4 Bloodborne is probably the closest and that's in a niche genre We talked about this before uncharted 4 is not really a niche genre So, um uncharted 4 feels like this is why you should buy a playstation 4 And everyone who's been buying a playstation 4 has been kind of waiting for like that game to say that Um, you know microsoft keeps releasing all these exclusives and playstation 4 is just kind of trickling out a game a year You know, here's here's your mlb the show. Yeah Like like they haven't really hit you with anything big and then uncharted 4 hits and like, okay That's awesome.  Yeah, so You know, I think it's going to win just based on the merit that it is literally the best playstation 4 game Yes, it is. Um, so it's going to win I think just because of that all everyone on this panel is going to own a playstation 4 and has probably played uncharted 4 Even the nintendo people like like they have played this game um I don't think they all they will have played inside. Well, but here's the thing. I I think of it kind of like I do And and it can go either way with this because uncharted 4 is like a mess I consider it just like the last of us like a masterpiece of storytelling like this is what If I want to show someone that games should be in the same ballpark as film I'm going to show them a naughty dog game and show them last of us or uncharted 4 But a lot of people if they want to show that games are art more so like That had abstraction to them or something.  I hope not like I want uncharted 4 to win That's where my vote. I I don't want uncharted 4 to win. You don't so that's kind of where I'm sitting at I don't think uncharted 4 is going to win in a landslide I don't even think it's going to be close. Now, obviously we are we don't actually know what the final tally is What I'm pretty dang sure uncharted 4 is win a game of the year In fact, I thought the moment the game released and was getting all these nine plus reviews that it was a shoe in for game of the year And nothing that came out since has really told me that it that that opinion has really changed But the game I want to get game of the year is actually titanfall 2 And The reasoning isn't just because it the game got it is totally overlooked because it came out with like a battle feeling It was released. It was released at a bad time But that game to me and and I'm not like a huge first person fan So maybe I'm totally off base on this because people who are bigger first person shooter fans might have something different to say That game to me is the pinnacle of what first person shooter should be both single player and multiplayer um That campaign in titanfall 2 might be the best fps campaign I played in my entire life It is that good it beats out golden I it beats out all these other campaign great campaigns the original modern warfare Some of the older call of duty games, you know, we're in world war 2 Even battlefield 1, you know campaign like titanfall 2 is the best campaign. I've ever I've ever played It is just an amazing you could literally buy titanfall 2 just to play the campaign. That's how good it is Uh, and then it absolutely nailed everything it needed to in multiplayer it took what the original titanfall did and Improved upon it in ways that made sense improved the mechanics improved the weaponry improved the the Titan battles because the original titanfall 2 the original titanfall was good Um, I don't know that it was fantastic that it was like, you know this big revolutionary step Like it was brought up But it was it was good titanfall 2 reminds me what made call of duty popular in the first place Is they absolutely nailed the campaign and they nailed the multiplayer And they've kind of just been living off of that that one instance with modern warfare that they did that ever since All all of call of duty duties today's popularity has been built off of the original modern warfare And titanfall 2 feels like it just did it again And no one's gonna notice it because they released it at a terrible point They basically send it out to die, which is really sad Yeah, and even the people behind the game are like mad like we didn't choose for it to release them Like that was that was yeah, we got her like we got to release it at the holiday season. It's like that's fine We told december like why you're releasing it at a point where it's competing against names that are bigger It's competing against a name that EA owns that's bigger than I thought that was a really weird decision on EA's part Um, I think they could have got away with it if it would have remained an xbox exclusive Because then microsoft would have got behind the campaign for it. Yeah, um and really pushed it hard Like sony pushed on charted for hard Well, it's microsoft back back in the day was pushing titanfall really hard And they would have pushed titanfall 2 just as hard if it was still exclusive But because it was walled that platform that meant that respawn EA had to do its own advertising Dink and it got completely overshadowed by battlefield 1 which yes battlefield 1 is absolutely fantastic But you'll notice battlefield 1 is not up for an award in in terms of game So clearly the panel that that picked all these things titanfall 2 is better than battlefield 1 in the first place Otherwise it wouldn't be out like it is the you know, yeah, there's the overwatch kind of fps game But it's like a team thing Uncharted 4 has some fps was kind of third person kind of an action adventure titanfall 2 is the representative for fps And that's saying something it means that they think it's already better than call of duty and already better than battlefield 1 And battlefield 1 is fantastic. I don't know if you've had a chance to play Not yet It is probably is it might be the best battlefield game And for me for me to be like titanfall 2 is it's just that much better than it It's insane to me because I didn't really even like the idea of titans in the original titanfall Now I love it It is so what what they didn't type will do is so amazing But the thing is no one's gonna no one's played it It's probably not going to get the recognition it deserves Even though i'm sure everyone on the panel has played it because again, these were selected by the panel So i'm sure the panel has played doom inside overwatch and titanfall 2 and uncharted 4 at least a majority of the panel But titanfall 2 is just not gonna see if we say that it's gonna and this is probably where we're gonna have to end Because we're gonna have to move on to the next one But even though we look at things that are like well obviously this game hasn't been played a lot But it's like so it's not gonna win an award her story won best narrative and best performance last year Um, and I've never played that game. I didn't hear about it I heard about it like right up until the game awards and hadn't heard about it before then So yeah, I think and I think the panel is like a whole bunch of media members I'm I I remember seeing a giant list of it earlier because I know I greg from kind of funny games I know we just brought them up earlier. Hey, I know he's on the panel And so it's it's a bunch of people that really care about videos a bunch of people that really know what you're talking about Sure And again, I think uncharted 4 is still gonna win because all those people gave uncharted 4 like the top review score Yeah, um, and so like I I personally I hope it wins Um, obviously Nate hopes I really don't want it to know Um, but well, here's the thing. I'm a little biased. I've never played an uncharted game And what upsets me about the fact that I haven't played an uncharted game is I love Indiana Jones and I haven't played uncharted and I don't know what's wrong with me Uncharted it feels like the perfect series. I've been waiting for my whole life and I just fantastic. I haven't played it Um So yeah, maybe I will someday and I'll probably end up agreeing with you that uncharted 4 Maybe should win because I like I've played a demo of it And I've seen other people play it and I've seen some gameplay of it But like I don't the impact isn't felt on me Yeah Because I haven't played the prior games and I think if anything's working against uncharted 4 to win It's that it doesn't really stand well on its own You have to have played the other games to get the full impact Um, whereas titanfall 2 you could might as well just skip the first titanfall Overwatch is is a first game and what might be a series or it might just be a constantly evolving game Like world of warcraft is um, you know doom is part of you know kind of a reboot of an established series um So if anything's working against uncharted 4 it's that you kind of have to play the prior games But I still think I don't even think it's to be close. Yeah So anyways next next studio game direction recognizing a game studio for outstanding creative vision and innovation in game direction and design So we have blizzard for overwatch Dice for battlefield 1 aid software for doom Naughty dog for uncharted 4 thieves and and respawn for titanfall 2 Yeah, this one's kind of difficult um I don't feel like it is but like for me to pick Um, not to call I I actually want blizzard to win this one Because they hit it out of the park with overwatch like I I'm not like I'm a first person shooter guy in like the sense that I'll play like borderlands and stuff I'm not like hardcore call of duty or other things like that um Sure, so blizzard for me is like or but overwatch for me is like wow this this game really like You know interest to me it keeps me coming back regularly um, and so I I want I kind of want blizzard to win Uh best studio game direction. I feel like naughty dogs gonna pull it off again um so here's um Here's where I differ on you I don't think naughty dogs gonna pull it off because they this is an ongoing series That uncharted 4 is just a natural progression from one to has uncharted 3 one. Let me go check on that. You you keep I can't remember. Um, I don't think even though I think titanfall 2 is fantastic again It's another game that's just improving upon something. It's done. So I don't think it's going to When I think I think uncharted 4 and respawn is gonna be pretty much like disqualified From the game direction aspect just because they're just doing what they used to do and doing it better um You know it software is going to get some credit for doom, but again doom feels like doom It doesn't feel revolutionary. It doesn't feel like you know, they It's good. They did doom right because they could have went way wrong with it. You're thinking dice, aren't you? What I think in dice for who's gonna win Yes And the reason I'm thinking dice because like blizzard, I think Absolutely nailed what they were doing, but think about all the similar type games that came out like that this year Blizzard ended up having the most popular of them all, but it's not like the other ones were so terrible Yeah, and now there's like that paladin game coming out. That's like everyone's saying in beta is really really good um, so it like it feels like Overwatch was a game that came out during a time when a whole bunch of these kind of games were coming out And it just happened to be the most popular. There's people who don't even think it's the best one But it's blizzard who already has like a pre-established 10 plus million audience that scoops up everything they release So it naturally became more popular and dice and this really hit it. I bought it. I bought it because you played it Like I was I wasn't going to pick it up and I love blizzard games. Um, but dice Because battlefield was on was like a sinking ship, right? It tried to do the call of duty thing for trying to do that that police thing the hard line Yeah, that pulled that the hard line that last one they did like the game before that they tried to be called duty The game after that they tried to be like this unique. Oh, we're gonna do this whole cops robbers thing and that just It just tanked.  Well, obviously there's things that aren't necessarily true Like historical accuracy like yeah, this one weapon existed back then But it wasn't like you saw 20 people on a map and running around with it, you know, it was like one person You know, so there's some, you know, it's a video game thing going on but It really represents um the brutality Of that world and presents it in a way that doesn't necessarily make the player feel uncomfortable But does make them realize that man Like death is like this is a serious thing, man Like like I didn't do it, but I just saw this guy's head get You know decapitated by a mortar like like there's all this crazy stuff going on every death You get that that title screen where it's like this person from here to here This yeah, you're like a character in the in the war.  Like it's crazy how they did that Um, and I think just in terms of the direction and how well they executed it and just how different it is from prior Battlefield games while maintaining like that high quality like vehicle combat and all the stuff that that battlefield players expect I think that's going to end up winning like best studio in game direction I in fact, I think this might be the only award the battlefield is But overwatch I think it's going to be right there because it's like the best of like a new not really a new A new genre, but like a new popular emergence of an old genre Yeah, but you know, I think I think dice if they're going to win an award. This is going to be the Best narrative for outstanding storytelling and narrative development of the game Got fire watch by compo santo inside by play dead mafia 3 by hanger 13 I can't believe mafia 3's neither can I Oxen free by the night school studio and uncharted for a thief's end by naughty dog and sony interactive entertainment I so this is either going to be a clean sweep for a naughty dog here Or and they're going to pull it off or fire watch for for for ending or it's going to be fire I say the reason why I don't know if it's going to be uncharted for is because of what you said Is that the story is it just uncharted for the stories? But but also it's also That they culminated an already great story in a really good way Like you said like I could see uncharted for sweeping this because the story in the game was fantastic the way it was told like how There's there's a plot point that I really can't say because it's I just I don't I'm still laughing at mafia 3's. I know and let me like I love the mafia series Like I know a lot of people didn't like mafia 2. I loved it. I played mafia 3. I don't get what's so great about the story But it's okay, but it just feels like It happened But I I wonder if it was included just because they wanted to get mafia into the category But fire watch is a is a solely story driven game. Yes, I haven't played it I've heard really good things about and I've been wanting to play it Yeah, well, I haven't played it for very long. It's like when I say not very long I got like 20 minutes. Yeah, so it's not like I'm a really good assessment of how good it is But I've seen people based on the videos I've seen like like this is If we're going to be solely on story and we're talking self-contained Then it's going to be either fire watch inside or oxen free. Yeah, I can see oxen free I haven't played any of oxen free. So I don't know Um what that game is about but again this this is the kind of Category that to me always felt like a favorite indie titles Yeah Because one thing indie titles can do that triple a titles don't always focus on is tell an amazing narrative Because indie titles aren't necessarily always focused on the visuals or having all these effects or even gameplay like You know like I said her story won some stuff last year that you know, okay, it doesn't even feel like a game. Yeah, but But it's a very good story. So Uh, I think that mafia 3's got no shot and uncharted 4 just has has a shot because of how well they they ended things But to me, this is an indie category all the way And fire fire watching inside are the two more popular of the three on there vote for them. Um I think I think uncharted 4 is going to end up winning. I want fire watch. I want fire watch to win too I I can see it going both ways. So I don't know who I'd predict Like all I ever hear people talk about the uncharted 4 story. That's why I'm like Okay, like when I hear like ps I love you and greg miller who's on the panel talk about uncharted 4 He doesn't talk about the gameplay. He talks about the story. So it's like that story clearly resonated Um, I'm just hoping that Some of these indie games resonated a bit more like fire watch So next best art direction for outstanding creative and technical achievement in artistic design and animation You have abzoo by giant squid and 505 Fire watch by compost santo inside by play dead overwatched by blizzard and uncharted 4 a thief's and a naughty dog This is where I think inside gets a win And it's not because I personally like it. Um, I mean, I don't think it's terrible. Yeah, but um You know, I'm looking at the other games like abzoo. It looks like other indie games I played Mm-hmm. It just does it looks like a unity game Fire watch looks like other games upside Overwatch looks like a blizzard game I mean, it just does it was literally built off another mmo.  Um, Well, yeah, it's the best looking uncharted. I'm like they all kind of look like Yeah, well, I mean it is literally the best looking But but like do I give them a technical achievement for making the best looking a charting game on their most powerful platform? Like how's that a technical achievement? If it wasn't the best looking game on their most powerful platform Then something's wrong at naughty dog because they created the last of us on the playstation 3 Um, so like you expect them like it's almost I can't give them outstanding creative with it because this is what you expect On a naughty dog And it's not really artistic design because it's a continuation of what they've done with like the last of us and stuff like that Um But like yeah, I mean the animation is obviously top notch I I think inside we'll end up winning because one I think inside is a media darling. Yeah Media loves this game And two one thing I always hear media talk about it is they just love the visual presentation Um, that's why I think this is the game like fire watch if that wins story Well uncharted 4 ends up winning game of the year I could see inside I mean like this is the one we got to give to you look at you look at inside and You think this is what an orwellian? like Hellscape would look like and yep They did a very good job of that like I'll give them that like I didn't really like the story and the gameplay was I mean that's what we're talking about. I mean it's literally just our art direction That's what I can see this going either to fire watch because it's a beautiful game It is but it doesn't look like something I haven't seen or inside Like I don't necessarily think like Overwatch is going to get best best looking art direction because yeah, it's it's detailed, but it's like it's you know It's it's overwatches. See the only reason I don't like fire watch is going to get it Is because every time I see screenshots of fire watch, I can't tell it's fire watch. It looks like a zillion other games Um, so like you know, it's just like with abzoo like yeah, it looks fantastic But how many unity games have I seen with a similar art direction like so many? It's still a beautiful game and this art direction is absolutely gorgeous. So it's fire watch, but it's like it doesn't feel unique Inside I'm not going to say it feels necessarily unique either There are other games. I think that have been like this I just think there's been less and not as many than have been highly praised like this one Okay, so we're so yeah, I think I think inside's getting that one you think fire watch No, I think either inside or fire watch, but my vote is still for inside on this one Kind of like you're okay. Oh, I converted you know my my vote was either way But I played inside and I like I that's the one thing I can give that game is that I really like the art design And then the this next one's gonna be best music and sound design. I hate that they mix these together Yeah, it's like well one's a great is what it is soundtrack one's like Well, this is a cool sound effect for outstanding audio inclusive of score original song licensed soundtrack and sound design We've got battlefield one by dice and ea hey doomed by it software and Bethesda inside by play dead Res infinite by enhanced games, which is a trip if you've ever played And thumper by which is a I think it's a VR game Yes, so I mean we're just on sound design. So like I think thumper like It's it's not very long and I don't think it's very good But we're just talking about sound Um, it has very good sound design, but the thing is all these games do yeah um I still think it's gonna go to battlefield one. Yeah, I feel like this is where another one's because like um, like they they nail like it's not just the sound effects alone because this includes sound effects Uh, absolutely stunning. You feel like you're back. You're you're back in world war one It does none of these sounds sound like modern weapons.  I feel bad for doom. It like doom is a good game It's good, but that's the thing. It's just good. I can't think of anything in particular on it. That's outstanding Yeah, um, but because that's kind of the way doom has always been. It's just a good game Um, I I never even the old doom like I'm like, oh Everyone loves doom. I'm like, yeah, everyone thinks it's a good game. It doesn't necessarily mean they think it's outstanding In any particular regard and that's kind of the way I feel about the new game I'm glad id software and Bethesda did a great job with it, but it's it is a good game It's it's just not like like it's good. It's just I like I don't think it's good enough to beat all the other So we're on agreement there that battlefield one gets everything For that So so that's two two awards. I think I picked battlefield one for us performance award to an individual for voice Overacting motion and or performance capturing. We have alex hernandez as linkin clay and mafia three Uh, sissy jones is the lila and fire watch. Emily rose is elena and uncharted four Nola north is nathan drake and uncharted four It's basically no uncharted four rich summer. We just agree on that try baker. I I hope it's nola north Well, okay, they're basically this is the uncharted four award And I'm not saying that because like I'm I haven't played the uncharted games But like when three of the nominees are from one game Let's be real someone from that game is winning it Well, yeah, again, that's I mean you can argue it's gonna end splitting the votes Like people are gonna vote for troy baker people are gonna vote for nola nolan like troy baker is the most well-known name People are gonna vote for nola north because that's the protagonist people are gonna vote for emily rose because she I've seen cutscene. She doesn't see but you say that and you say well Yeah, these are people that people know that they recognize their voice But uh, viva sefer won her story best performance last year And she went up against people like Camilla Luddington for lorecroft Um, she went against yeah mark hamill as the joker and won so okay, so he like that's not a big deal Mark hamill didn't do that great of a job. He's the best. He's the best joker in my opinion So he might he might be the best joker in your opinion But in terms of when I I don't know I mean we can go on a debate forever like I don't think he was a bad joker I just don't think like comparatively to what well what else he was competing against It wasn't like a performance that I think back. I'm like, oh, yeah, remember more camels the joker No, I know but I mean like that's that's still like an iconic role played by an iconic person Like iconic person. I know that's that's what I'm saying. So it doesn't necessarily have to be Like you look at nola north playing. I think Nathan drake. I I don't think uh, the mafia 3 one has a shot And I'm not I'm not saying that because mafia 3 is like a bad game I know it didn't review very well and I think you know the voice actor for uh, Lincoln It was very very good. Like I have nothing against him I just don't think like if you look at the history of the game awards and who wins this It's going to be someone who not only did a fantastic job But was in a in what the panel considers to be one of the best games. Yeah Mafia 3 is not going to be it's not even up for one of the best games. Yeah You know fire watches have been in, you know multiple awards already uncharted 4 has basically been in every single category I think I think it might have been in every category Oh, it wasn't in sound design sound design But it was in every other category So clearly there's a bias this year towards uncharted 4 if there's no signal to me that uncharted 4 is going to win a game of the year It's the fact that it's in like every category I can see I It's going to be someone the thing is there's two from fire watch Three from uncharted and then there's you know, Lincoln, you know, Alexander Hernandez And to me it's like oh Alexander Hernandez going to win because he's the only like single one from a single game But it's between fire watching uncharted Yeah It's tough for me. I I think Nolan north is going to end up taking it because it's his last run is as uh, yeah, like Just because this is the last game and it's such a memorable character Um, you know, yeah, Troy Baker did a fantastic job as he always does Um, Emily Rose did a fentap fantastic job and and sissy jones and in rich summer. They did awesome jobs too. Um, it's just man Well, like I when you think voice acting and the king of voice acting you think Nolan north He's been in the most stuff. He's done the most stuff Yeah, and he's got yeah, I always think When I think king of voice acting, I always think it's either Nolan north or Troy Baker or someone in the like those are guys that do Like amazing job every time out. You know, you're gonna get someone good And and so like I I'm I think that it's going to be Nolan north and I vote Nolan north Um, just because he did a great job as as as Drake like he always does but like yeah, here's my thing I want it to be Nolan north. I'm okay. If it's Troy Baker. Yeah Um, I'm okay if any of the ones from uncharted 4 because I will give uncharted 4 massive credit on their voice acting um But part of me says if fire watch doesn't win anything yet to this point that I want fire someone fire watch to win Like if it did win best story, then I wanted to win the voice or uh Uh, like that's just thought let's just like a desire for fire watch to get something I don't like as awesome as uncharted 4. I am afraid that uncharted 4 is going to end up just sweeping And it's going to be the most boring award show ever See, I don't know because the people that vote are like you and me in terms of like, well, we've already given this award This like game a bunch of different awards Yeah, but it's also one of those like if they actually think uncharted 4 is just the best That's just the way it is But this isn't like the Oscars where they've never played the games before and never watched the movies and they're just like Well, yeah, they might also think well, there's awards that don't like the next award does not have uncharted Yeah, so speaking of next award Games for impact award for a thought supposed to say thoughts as though provoking game with a profound pro-social meaning or message 1979 revolution by ink stories Blockhood by plethora project and devolver digital or well by osmotic studios surprise attack See here are of course by glitchers and that dragon cancer by a new minister. Yeah, this is like an indie game category for um Profound, you know pro-social. I think I think that dragon cancer is going to win because it's had the most impact out of all of these Like I've seen I think you're right Only because I've never played any of these games. Well, like yeah, like you the only one thing I think the only one you've heard of right is that dragon cancer Um, I've heard yeah for I've seen some people in neo guy talk about it. That's it. I haven't heard it talk about Like that dragon cancer got media coverage. It was on the news. Um, it was well I don't I don't watch I know but it was on the news that got shown off like Man, this guy his his son was going through cancer and so he made this game to deal with it like it Like reached out. I think some of the proceeds went to cancer organization So I think that dragon cancer is going to win or well. I played a little bit of very interesting game um, sure I it's it's pretty much what it sounds like it's it's Based off of like 1984 like big brother type of thing um And it's interesting um, it it's a lot like Playing like papers, please or her story and the fact that like the gameplay of it's not really like gameplay. It's more of a I don't know how to say it. You know, let's play for yourself. There's a demo on steam. Um, yep But I can still see I still think that that dragon cancer was going to win Just because of its popularity and just because of of what it's done. Sure I'll go with whatever you say because I haven't played these games. Okay Here's your other the category you said this was best independent game Proud stand. No. Yeah. No. No. I was saying like all the games for impact Proud standing creative a technical achievement in a game made outside the traditional publisher system Fire watch. So this feels almost like a biased category, by the way. Why? Because if inside didn't win game a year, it's going to win any game a year Um, but but that's what's going to happen if this panel nominated inside his game of the year And it doesn't win game of the year It's obviously winning any game of the year You don't get nominated for a game of the year as the only indie game and then not win the indie game category So we got so I'm just unless and it's weird too. Is it any if inside wins game of the year? How could it not be the best indie game? Yeah So this almost feels like this is the inside award ahead of time. I'm just throwing that out We've got fire watch by campo santo hyper light drifter by heart machine inside I've played at stardew valley by concerned ape and chucklefish games And the witness by felca ink Yeah, a lot of people forgot that game even came out this year the witness. Yeah um Let's see. I know I just got stardew valley. I haven't played it. I know that a lot of people really really liked it It was like an instant hit. I don't know if it's gonna win independent game of the year because it's I don't think it's It's not really anything we haven't seen before um Hyper light drifter is a beautiful game Absolutely love that game Love that game. That's where my vote would go Is hyper light drifter I don't think it's gonna win. I don't think it's gonna like you said I don't think it's gonna stay at a chance against the side I think it's not it's gonna sweep that easily. Yeah, I don't like here's the thing like I'm looking at the panel because the panel helped pick the games in the first place, right and it's like Inside was nominated for game of the year and it's also nominated for best indie game How can it not win best indie game when they already thought it was the best indie game? Yeah like it just That's what's weird. Like I feel like this category would have been better almost if inside wasn't nominated for game of the year Because then you don't really know because inside and fire watch have both been nominated for like a lot of awards So you would figure it's between fire watch and inside In terms of just popularity like oh my god, they're talking about fire watch the best story and best voice acting And inside for best story, you know, best overall game, you know, best visuals These other games haven't even been even mentioned until just now I feel like there's going to be part of the the base that's going to say Especially if inside ends up winning game of the year That's going to say well, maybe we shouldn't give inside best indie game Because the only reason they voted for inside is because like fire watch or like the witness was not up there To vote for like it might be like oh, we originally voted for these games to be part of game of the year But you know this one ended up winning and if a couple of people who voted for inside are like, oh, we don't want to vote for it again Um, you could end up seeing like a fire watch take it Which is probably the most likely other candidate or the witness because the witness had a lot of hype going into it And it mostly delivered on its promise Um, like it's that one indie game that was made by uh, you know a well-established indie developer who already had a hit success Um, and the witness delivered exactly what the center was going to live around It wasn't like, you know, no man's sky, which notice how that's not up for any awards Um, you know, it wasn't like no man's sky where they over promised like he said exactly what the game is going to be And that's what it was You know, so You know, I'd like to see there might be some some votes for the witness just because but I so who do you vote for then? We know insides probably I I personally want fire watch to take it But I think this is insides award to lose like something weird would have to happen where the panel just suddenly hates inside Okay, um, here's here's another sad combination Uh, best mobile or handheld game for the best game I'm totally I'm totally okay with that for the best but game playable on portable devices including mobile phones and dedicated gaming handhelds So you've got clash royale by supercell Fire emblem fates by intelligent systems in nintendo monster hunter generations by capcom Pokemon go by niantic and severed by drinkbox studio So I want fire emblem face to win just because I love fire emblem. I love the fates games I know pokemon go is gonna win No, see you say that but no, I'm I'm thinking of a game that's been played It's it was the top game that's ever been on the app store doesn't matter It's doesn't matter. It is also the one of the worst reviewed pokemon games by media. Well. Yeah, it's just not a pokemon game But that but you're missing my point media don't actually think this game is good and media are the people voting Well, but if you look at media media are the people that recognized this game was promised to have all these features And it doesn't have them Media are the ones that dealt with the servers not being up. Media are the ones that realized there's nothing to do in this game after you catch pokemon Like they like pokemon go was a massive success But media did not like that game They were very critical of it like gaming media like ign and kotaku But these are the people Weekly in there.  Um, it's probably the worst reviewed of all the games on the list Of all this maybe maybe maybe clash royale might be low Well, and that's the thing like what are they basing what no clash royales at 86? What are they viewing? What are they like? Are they saying best overall game on this or they're going to be like Well pokemon go has played the most it had the most like the biggest user base out of all these Well, it says best mobile handheld game. That's what this category is It is the best of the mobile games So then if that's what we're going off of instead of like well, this is the most popular This got the most widespread acclaim again And this was like a fan vote pokemon go with no, I know but if this is I think this is a panel, right? Yeah, I just made this confirm So then so then I'd say severed wins I'd say farmland faces. That's my vote But sever is probably going to end up winning because that game I am going to go. Let me let me sit here I'm going to base this on review scores Since sever got an 89. Yeah Um on ios only 82 on vita 82 and we but it's in the 80s Clash Royale got a solid 86 Which clash royale is actually pretty good Yeah, I know you but you haven't played us any kind of thing But but it actually is pretty good like it it's a legit good mobile game. Um, believe it or not those exist Uh, um, let's see what what fates got here Fates is Currently the highest rated of all the games out there by the media Um, well, let me check monster hunter. I can't discount monster hunter. I I don't think enough of them will yeah monster hunters also got like a 85 Yeah, but that's so they're all pretty highly rated games pokemon go is literally the worst rated game And it's probably only included because of its popular Well, and monster hunter generations came out very recently The only thing the only way pokemon