Rez Stefan excuse then Akron Vander wheel Wongamon Warner Weninger 15 present Corms present Alder McGraw Here I now make motion that the minutes of the previous Common Council be approved as has entered in the record If you moved in second at the minutes of the previous Common Council be approved under discussion Hearing none all in favor. I Opposed motion carries Alderman Balmour would you lead us in a pledge, please? I Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all We have one hearing this evening and that three zoning property located at Any interest parties wishing to be heard on hearing And I'll move that the hearing be closed This was dated October 6th From the mayor and hereby submit the following appointments to the business improvement district for your consideration Trisha Fippin to be considered for the unexpired term of Bill Dawson whose term expires September 16 2005 Reappoint Rick Scroggins and Tammy Canard for a three-year term to expire 9 16 oh six Appoint Craig Mazza to replace Lynn Rouse whose term expires 9 16 oh three Craig Mazza's term will expire on 9 16 oh six again signed by the mayor And the other is the mayor's appointments to the special municipal court investigation committee and once again the Appointments there Alderman Michael Warner Alderman William Wongaman myself Sergeant Robert Katowski attorney David gas Ronald Beenan citizen and Ronald Irline citizen all terms expiring October 15th 2004 signed by the mayor Alderman Grosz and I'll move that off appointment be confirmed We'll just second that our court appointments be confirmed under discussion Hearing none all in favor I posed motion here. Hope we form Susan Hunley Good evening. I'm Susan Hunley 632, Michigan Avenue, Sheboygan I'm here just for one purpose and that's to address the room tax issue and That's because two individuals did bring this topic up at the last public forum two weeks ago There were a few statements made that I consider incorrect and I just wanted to clarify them one said that room tax issue could only be decided by Elected officials. That's not correct at all You can read the state statute to verify that Another statement was made saying that we were going to be taking taxpayers money and put in into our own Pockets that's definitely not true First we have not sued the city. We did file Renee Susha and myself two lodging owners a notice of claim and that was only after three and a half years of trying to negotiate and over 22 meetings that were attended by a lodging and these meetings were council meetings Chamber meetings and some were requests from special groups to meet with us We went into all these meetings very open-minded hoping to resolve these issues The very last thing that we wanted to do was to get into a lawsuit But then our we did hire an attorney to advise us didn't seem to be going any place Our attorney did meet with the city attorney For three hours and our attorney by the way is a person that is considered The room tax law expert in the state of Wisconsin He actually has written a book many municipalities purchased this book and they use it as a guide once they enact room tax law and He came to Sheboygan and met with our city attorney and after the meeting he because we had planned future meetings with him and The attorney had hoped to our attorney. I should say had hoped to meet with the mayor and maybe some other groups that were interested He told us he didn't feel this was in the best interest and we are paying this attorney by the hour so After encouragement and actually suggestions by two city officials. We did file the notice claim During this time. We were never contacted Renee or I a third party was and it was brought to his attention that He should maybe discuss us dropping this notice of claim Rather, it reflects us that somebody else would be involved and not us But we didn't have any say because we were never contacted. We were given a notice that Through certified mail that it was discarded So the next step would be to sue the city. We haven't done that. We do have six months We are hoping for some negotiation during this time. We have not heard If it would go into court, it should not it was stated in the last public forum that we would be causing the city taxpayers Steep legal fees to defend the case Shouldn't cost the city one penny. We have a city attorney that is that by been advising the mayor and all of you Saying that we are following state statute regarding room tax law in Sheboygan Shouldn't cost you penny it will cost us money and when we win we will want to be reimbursed That's where the city would have some expenditures Our only goal is for the city to follow state statute regarding room tax law. Thank you John dressy John you'll have five minutes Mayor Shram ladies and gentlemen of the city of Sheboygan I'm addressing you this evening on a few concerns that I have as well as most of the citizens of Sheboygan have While looking at the pending budget Monic deficit and increasing in fees and in addition to fees that this comic council has created Are you truly doing your guidance as part of the city of Sheboygan? There are two things that government body has an obligation to the citizenry that has put you in power The citizens have number one the right of protection and number two The developing and sustaining of a stable and robust economic structure. The first is our right of protection This lies in the hands of our police and our fire department with both stand substantial cuts in this upcoming budget First is the fire department which stands up to a quarter of a million dollar budget cut Having the potential of laying off three firefighters in this city Yet on the south side of this city alone We have one fire station taking almost half of our load which also houses our industrial park Most businesses that go under eating a catastrophic fire will be out of business within two years Are we willing to take the risk in our manufacturing or an industrial area with that risk to say nothing of the people who pay the taxes and go home? Every day and having their lives and their property put on the line with this fire department with in their hands These are the same people that are considering Wage decreases or having their wages frozen to save the jobs Definitely showing the spirit of the people that will bravely go in as everybody else wants to run out They will band together never leaving the fallen man behind Yet tonight just look in the paper to see that we're also looking at increases and wages of other people yet They're looking to stop theirs The next step is the police department looking facing almost a half a million dollar budget cut a Half a million dollar budget cut. Have we not listened to the news? Have we not seen that the city is facing a drug problem? I know people who live in neighborhoods that these drug houses have popped up. This is a neighborhood that I grew up in And what about the tragedies and we've seen on our streets having young people's lives taken? Where were the police to stop some of these drunk drivers? Second of all and the last thing is how about now a prostitution ring involving a child a 13 year old child that we're going to stand let and let this happen Second is the economic structure by increasing fees assessments Stormwater fees and things along that line. We are going to strain the industrial power that this city definitely does has it has shown for over a hundred and fifty years These businesses are not going to be able to take that hit you're going to take money from the research and development fees employment employee development Marketing and just overall profitability of the business How will they make money getting rid of jobs getting rid of everyone? These are going to affect the union jobs the non union jobs from executive to entry level This is going to affect the mom-and-pop to the major industrial people in our manufacturing sector. I Hope these cities takes these most of these issues to heart when you're looking at the proposal and making your final recommendations Because I would like to see this city go back from the 12th highest tax according to some stats To number one place in America to raise a family Drived on the streets. You see them every day. These people work hard for their money They're good people as well as you're good people and I hope you see that that they need to be represented or represented fairly On the other hand changes need to be made on major decisions that do affect stormwater fees major funding for private development These need to be brought to public referendum the people need to be heard The people need to be make sure that their voices were heard 29 businesses stood in front of you 28 opposed one stuff here and defended it yet the stormwater fee goes through What is that going to affect to the local business structure? I? Hope you take a lot of this in there And I know a few of you as I've talked to you feel the same way that I do And I hope you stand up and let this rest of this council know how you felt as you have expressed this to me Because it is a true proverb that the world will follow one person who knows where they're going Mayor Shram ladies and gentlemen she will again. I thank you and God bless Thank you John John just to clarify one thing. This is not pay raises going to employees This is paperwork following up for the ranges to readjust your ranges There are no raises attached to this nor will there be any raises attached to any of these Salaries so it you may have misconstrued the way to paper Printed it, but there are no raises going to to non rep employees with this three structuring and Donny You may want to talk about that Thank you, your honor. I'm ahead of the salary grievance department This has not come up in the salary grievance yet. It's first coming up Thursday And there will be no raises for any person all it doing is expanding From the low to the high there will be no raises whatsoever in that document you're reading wrong The other thing John just to clarify to correct is yes, there were 29 business people up here, but not 20 Let me back up 28 did not oppose it. There are several who spoke against it I spoke to some of the business people that were up here They were up here to listen get information they talked to me about it They did not oppose the stormwater fee just because they didn't get up to the microphone expressed your opinion doesn't mean they're up You're opposing it. They want to get the information from there Jamie shrimp Good evening. I again. Thank you for allowing me to speak with you this evening and for sharing five minutes of your time Two weeks ago I challenged us as a community to turn away from the campaign of deception diversion and disrespect launch from this microphone and Suggested we embrace the values of hope opportunity in progress I also made a promise to present the facts whenever and wherever they were being misrepresented in the past two weeks the campaign of deception Diversion and disrespect have continued their assault upon the truth There's an old saying in politics that if a lie is if a lie is allowed to be told long enough It becomes truth such inaccuracies must be challenged My favorite one over the past two weeks is the assertion that the budget challenges We face are because of the money being spent on the Blue Harbor project This despite the fact Alderman Warner and the mayor both laid out information contrary two weeks ago The fact is there is no line in the upcoming 2004 city budget that allocates one cent of general fund tax dollars to Blue Harbor none zero Blue Harbor is funded through the TIFT district in which it resides not general fund dollars Along with this is the wild assertion the owners of Blue Harbor will have their property taxes frozen till 2018 Again the facts tell a different story in an effort to protect local taxpayers The city's leadership made certain a minimum tax payment was made each year to the city and with the project success Great Lakes will likely pay more than the minimum guaranteed tax payment We also heard again this past week that should wagon is the 12th highest in taxes in the country But again the facts tell a different story This report done by a firm in East Coast covered the entire Sheboygan metro area in other words the entire county and compared its property values to tax rates the Wisconsin taxpayers Alliance a Wisconsin group did a similar study which was recently highlighted in the Sheboygan press on October 7th 2003 the city of Sheboygan Let me repeat the city of Sheboygan ranked 291st out of 220 communities included in the taxpayers Alliance study Instead of 12th highest the city of Sheboygan is 29th lowest out of 220 municipalities in Sheboygan County alone The city is ranked behind Howard's Grove Plymouth Usberg and Sheboygan Falls and tax rates over the last 10 years Additionally, will city tax rates have averaged a 4% 4.6% increase below the state average of 5.1% Property values have risen better than 9.4% That's a significant return on one's investment. It means our city's leaders all of you are spending our tax dollars wisely Alderman Bill Stefan was indeed correct two weeks ago when he stated the voices concerned about high taxes Must now make their case to the Sheboygan school board and Sheboygan County board which by the way is proposing 2.75 percent raises for their employees 0% what does it mean when the mayor and common council pass a budget with a 0% tax rate increase They'll be subjected to the same definition as zero that past leaders have followed for decades yet now Some in our midst wish to change the definition No one has said there won't be increases in our property values Which by the way happens to be a good thing yet. We have heard every reason why zero just isn't zero Have we not have we not all heard this before did we not have a former president when asked if he smoked marijuana in colleges pond Yeah, but I didn't hail We need to stand up for the truth for decency How often does the media turn the other way? Publishing the opinions of the self-serving rather than investigating the truth lies to sell market share sell newspapers lies are interesting Exciting the truth is plain and simple black and white It is easier to gossip and spread the lies engage in deception diversion and disrespect Then it is they have the courage to stand up for the values of hope opportunity in progress the values we teach our children We can learn a lot though by following the values we teach our children my six-year-old son loves to play soccer This is the ball. He uses the practice. I've never been much one much for soccer, so we're learning together I'm convinced however that regardless of how great a soccer player. He becomes he's learning some very important life lessons on the soccer field Six years old and he's beginning to understand He will not always win. He may not always be the best and he certainly cannot lie steal and cheat his way to the top criticizing The other team doesn't make him or his team any better practice and hard work make him a better player Enable him him to uplift his team six years old I can see it in his actions on the field and his comments to his teammates He gets it six years old too bad some of us much older haven't learned lessons from the soccer field I invite you all to come out and play a game That same six-year-old loves the color. This is the box of crayons. He uses right now his favorite color. It's blue I'm certain there are some people gathered at night. We try to convince us. This is red green yellow Anything but blue certainly it can't be black or white because they thrive on finding the gray But this is blue. It's blue because our tradition tells us it's blue Common sense tells us it's blue our values tell us it's blue and the Binion Smith Criola Company of Eastern Pennsylvania tells us it's blue Who also happens to be the color of the sky?  I'm not promising 75 in late October, but the Sun will come up and she'll buy again You know what we're gonna be all right. I always tell Sorry, thank you Marty Butson Okay, my name is Marty Butson and I'm the manager of Screamers Tavern I'm here today in regard to the sign we currently have on our lower roof This sign is a fiberglass race car shell that's professionally painted with our logo our name We spent about five thousand dollars to have this car made and then lifted on to our lower roof We were not aware at the time that we needed a sign permit So we were ordered to take the sign Down or apply for a variance for a conditional use permit So we spent another hundred and fifty dollars to apply for a conditional use permit so that we could comply and be You know, we want to obey the law but we were denied the reasons for denial were based on aesthetics and There in the city planning committee's hesitancy to set precedents for anyone in the future wanting to do the same thing After the last vote by the planning committee, which was three two and one Three voted for denial two in favor and then one abstained I was approached by Bob Petrie from the shaboygan press Who informed me that he would like to interview me for a story that he was you know going to do for the paper? Well, our issue made the front page of the paper and then Jerry Bader called me from WHBL and he wanted to do an interview which I did and He had a hour-long program were Callers, you know call in to voice their opinion He had over 30 callers and that one negative comment was made by anyone that called in Every person said that our sign looked great and professionally done Some said it actually improved the look of the area and its surroundings They said it was creative and imaginative way to promote our business and some people win as far as call it art From raised fans to small business owners to ordinary citizens We received so many positive comments and so many people offering their support that I couldn't help but wonder If there wasn't a chance to change the city planning committee's mind about our issue So on Tuesday October 14th I called Mayor Shram and he said that I had an opportunity to address the council So here I am on Tuesday October 14th Petition was also started to keep our sign and we have over 1500 signatures in six days What I'm asking the Common Council to do is send our issue back to the city planning committee for reconsideration I really feel that when the committee members see the overwhelming support for our sign Aesthetics will no longer be an issue. I mean over 1500 people think it looks wonderful When they see all the signatures of small business owners Citizens and especially the lack of negative feedback They will have the basis they need to grant us a conditional use permit You know, they'll have the basis they need to set a precedence in granting us our conditional use permit to keep our sign up and So what I would like to do is ask that you send the matter back to the city planning committee And I would also like to request that if you do do that We would like to keep the sign up there until such time as the city planning's decision Comes back to us again our original day or our deadline right now is November 1st So I assume it would be the first planning committee in November the first meeting And that's all I have to say and I really thank you very much And I appreciate the chance to be up here Marty We have nothing to send back because there's no document on council floor this evening just petition Petition but Alderman Warner is chairman and Alderman Warner if you'd be open to inviting Well, I'm chairman, but you're a council person on there if you invite Marty back to the plan commission and discuss this Okay, so we'll get you on the next agenda Okay, great. Okay. I'm sorry. Can we have the time so can we keep our sign up? In the meantime Steve had some Tuesday, oh, okay Okay Go ahead under our zoning code does the plan commission is the final decision maker on conditional uses It's not a council decision council adopted the zoning code that provides for the plan commission to act on conditional uses conditional use was denied the It's not any action before the city council Well, I understand that but we just received so much support and so many people rallying For us to be able to keep our sign I felt that it was appropriate to come here tonight And it was appropriate to ask at the city planning committee for just some consider to reconsider their Third their decision, you know 16 o'clock close to 1600 people think our sign is aesthetically beautiful or aesthetically appropriate for the city of Sheboygan and The fact that we were denied based on aesthetics and the fact that we were denied based on Hesitancy to set precedence. I think this would be the perfect reason to set a precedence if you can say to someone I have you know over 1500 signatures saying we love it and no negative comments. That's a perfect Um situation to say yeah, okay, Marty. You're done. Thank you. Thank you all my friends Thank you, your honor. I my question was going to be the one the answer I just got from Steve as to why a council had no final authority over it And now I can understand why why we don't All of them in Vanderbilt Vanderbilt. Thank you, your honor. Um, I just like that Steve. Can the Commission? Vote on it again and change their decision or is their decision final? What can the Commission change that? I have to look I guess at the zoning code on reconsideration, but typically this the city ordinance provides under the Roberts rules and the The city's Manifestation of the Roberts rules is that reconsideration can only be done at the same meeting where the original underlying vote Is taken that you can't Act to reconsider something at a subsequent meeting that's contrary to Roberts rules, but that's what our Our code provides so and the council sets the rules of the council So I would I would think not but I can take a look at what the zoning code Provides after the meeting. Okay One more speaker. Oh, hang on all of my friends. We're not done yet I guess I'm a little intrigued by all the support this issue has gathered But I realized that a motion to reconsider would be inappropriate But a motion to rescind perhaps might be but more in order according to the rules of order Also an ordinance can be changed by a council vote get it not so the council could actually change the ordinance to To allow there is some room as I can feel there is a room for approval of this sign We're looking at it in one way, but it can also be looked in the other So there's there's some latitude there that I see that council might want to consider Council as all could change the zoning code that would require a zoning amendment which would require public hearing and going through the process for zoning changes Well, Ms. That wouldn't help Marty in time before she had to take it down because that takes too much It's too long a process to get I believe they were ordered You know many many months ago to take the sign down and then Then sought to go to the plant commission for conditional use you know after maybe Steve Salkalowski from the planning department can address the The process that's taken place Go ahead to Alderman Warner first you need you have someone say yes, your honor One thing for sure is I would be very resistant to looking at changing any of our zoning codes or Our sign ordinance at this time that was put into place Based on laws around the state and around the nation that have such such Sign ordinances as part of our comprehensive plan, which the city had a lot for that came out in 2000 And and we have to be very careful We do that there is a mechanism in there at the plant commission that will allow something like this to happen in a plan Commission could have allowed it we don't need to change our sign ordinance or a comprehensive plan to allow it the plan commission Simply felt and this is my belief that the sign first no one really thought the sign was unattractive in any way the main problem is it was a rooftop sign and we have very few rooftop signs if you allow one The next person puts theirs up without asking now their sign is up now They have to go through the same process Eventually what you're doing is every time someone puts up a sign when they shouldn't have and it's a non-conforming sign The people have to look at everyone and try to decide which one is appropriate this time Is this one okay that one okay is this car on top of the building okay Is this airplane on top of that building okay? And that was the feeling we had and as the plant commission changes and mayor changes Every time a plan commission gets together to discuss the sign They're looking at different people with different viewpoints and different ideas of what's of what's what's appropriate and what looks nice And what doesn't look nice you would have signs of all different kinds all over the place and pretty soon It would look like cartoon land or could look like cartoon land and that was our concern We've made churches keep their signs back the setback distance. We we've made them abide by our sign ordinance plus many other Companies and businesses with signs so we looked at it thoroughly we looked at it twice But I have no problem looking at it again in planning commission. Okay. Thank you Steve Thanks, mayor. I don't know how many people are familiar with the history. I know there's been a lot of press There's been a lot of stuff on the radio. I think it's fair for planning department to also give you And an idea as to what has occurred throughout this matter It was in November of last year that we did receive a complaint about the sign Anytime staff receives a complaint we check it out to see if it's compliant with today's zoning ordinance This in fact was not a letter was written to the Bootsons for screamers Indicating that the sign was not compliant and they must either remove the sign or Apply for a conditional use in variance. That was the only way to have the sign as is allowed at the site presently in the urban commercial zone There are different types of signs that are allowed wall signs Wanting signs and there was never any type of issues in terms of the NASCAR motif or anything like that It was with the fact that the zoning ordinance which Alderman Warner stated with regards to the comp plan and the zoning ordinance which was amended in 1996 there was a lot of time and effort spent by the public by the planning commission by the Council in fact by sign companies that focus Specifically on the signs and this was one of the results of that study was to limit roof signs not to have them So the only way was for them to apply for this conditional use in variance, which they did Subsequently in November the plan Commission reviewed it and denied it They were informed to remove the sign by March 1st of 2003 There was a lot of communication back and forth with regards to letters, which the applicant decided to disregard They were informed that they were they could apply again with a conditional use permit after six months which they did the plan Commission again reviewed it recently and and Voted to deny it and subsequently they've been given a timeframe of November 1 to remove the sign so it's I think it's important for the council to be aware of this and as Attorney McLean indicated the plan Commission is final decision maker on this the applicant in another six months could apply for another conditional use permit and Again staff does feel that in terms of amending the ordinance. I definitely And and our department does not feel that is the way to go Are there situations like this that we should take a look at on an individual basis to revariance? Yes, that I think we can do but to amend the ordinance does not I believe rectify this or doesn't Provide a solution Thank You Steve Okay, we have someone else. Yeah, she wants to speak.  So Steve keifer Good evening. Marty. Thanks for making a little noise. You give me a chance to talk My name is Steve keifer some of you. I know from a long time ago Others I haven't seen for a while. I operate a sign company in Sheboygan Almost everything I produce a ship somewhere else in the country. You may see it on a truck head and south Very occasionally we install a sign in Sheboygan, but this is not our normal business But we tonight you're talking about something that is important to me, and that's Sheboygan sign ordinance I'm highly active on a national basis with my international trade association Last year I was chairman of the board This year I'm chairman of our government relations committee. I manage a staff that includes Five attorneys Dr. James Claus who's considered to be the national expert on signage. In fact, he created the word in 1976 The attorneys are experts in sign ordinances and constitutional law. I Participate as well as directing their activities and while I'm not an attorney. I've certainly learned a lot About sign ordinances constitutional law federal law. I've worked with communities since 1979 on sign ordinances As diverse as Manitowoc and watch walk even Illinois I noticed Steve turn his head towards me when he said sign companies worked on the Sheboygan ordinance I did not I asked to participate and that was denied me I am highly concerned about the Sheboygan zoning ordinance specifically the sign ordinance Interpretation and implementation of that ordinance. I Have discussed my concerns with the planning department more than once the mayor and people from that department have met with me I provided to them the same publications all of you received on Friday Yet I continue to see Actions that show a lack of understanding the show censorship of speech Violation of basic civil rights of the US Constitution its amendments and numerous Supreme Court rulings Simply stated signs our speech. They're no different than the newspaper or the magazine you read Speech is protected by the First Amendment The US Supreme Court rulings have made it abundantly clear that the burden of proof for any regulations of speech rests with the city not with the business owner a City cannot subjectively assert a claim Such as that aesthetics or even traffic safety as a reason for controlling speech There must be factual proof Behind the regulations not subjective assertions of visual appeal or dislike by a handful of people As far back as 1945 and as a recent as 2001 the US Supreme Court has addressed local actions Which censor speech and has rejected those actions Beginning in 1975 and in subsequent Supreme Court cases. They established very clear rules to interpret compliance This is not new knowledge However, I do see it being repeatedly ignored by members of the planning profession throughout our country But yet I have hope because two years ago I listened to a tape by The number one legal expert that advises their profession Stand up in a seminar at their national conference and tell them that 90% of the ordinances Assign ordinances in the United States are illegal This is the same guy that taught him to do all the stuff we have in our current ordinance Ramifications to a city can be quite harmful a Director your attention to the sign line you all receive that talks about North Olmstead, Ohio This legal action, which the local merchants won in addition to the costs the city had to pay to defend themselves Because it was brought under federal civil rights law cost the city paying back the plaintiff's fees and attorney fees over $300,000 This is one example Additionally, I must tell you I'm concerned when I see city staff refused to grant permits for signs that are allowed under the president Ordinance and instead coerce people to install smaller signs Signs which the staff considers to be appealing Monument signs, which nationally recognize traffic safety engineers indicate are a traffic safety hazard. I Believe this raises serious prior restraint due process concerns based on how I've been educated On other occasions when a business stands up for their rights, then the city staff gives in grants from a sign permit. I Don't know how Sheboygan's ordinance was written. I didn't participate But I can't share with you that as an official representative of my trade association I participated in meetings with multiple departments at the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development I can tell you that HUD is highly concerned about the use of federal funds Block grants to pay for the development of local ordinances such as a sign ordinance which violate federal law. I Can also tell you that the people in the small business administration have become highly concerned about restrictive illegal sign ordinances and the serious negative impact they have on small business success and The collateral behind SBA guaranteed loans Steve your time is up. Good So thank you tell you a lot more for hours and hours That's all I want one communication That was sent to me today. It's from mr. Craig Wagner and Subjects is tonight's council meeting. Sorry that I won't be there tonight But I feel but feel free to quote me on anything quite honestly. This is getting out of hand and needs to come to a halt Recently there have been many attacks against you and members of the council some of which I submit Submitted to the editor of the Shiboyan press. I would like to take credit for that letter But the editor took the liberty of changing Portions of my letter to not reflect my opinions. So don't believe everything you read I haven't heard any advice or suggestions on how to resolve the current physical woes from the citizens It is easy to criticize but it takes a little time and effort to come up with better ideas. I Would suggest that we try to find other alternatives to raising taxes creating fees reducing earnings or Eliminating services and find better and more efficient ways to providing services that make Shiboyan what it is We may not have we may have to compromise on some of these but don't take the easy way out How can this be done? I don't have the answer to that But that is why the citizens have elected you and the council members now it is time to serve the people I also have to give you a credit for attempting to keep the city's portion of the tax as stable by seeking a 5% reduction to the department budgets Consider the many cuts that have come from Madison it takes courageous mayor who by doing so has come under attack and Possibly risking his political future for the betterment of the people to me That is serving the citizens I am also upset with some of the members of the council The people of Shiboyan have elected them to represent us during during Common Council and other meetings There are many times as well as other citizens of Shiboyan. Excuse me. There are on My time they are on my time as well as citizens of Shiboyan and they should act accordingly Common council meetings are not for personal gain nor is it a soapbox and attempts to further their political careers I would suggest that they campaign on their own time and do what is right for people when representing us. I Have one last question. I would like to ask When did being the mayor? Council members or any other government employee change from being a service to the people to self-serving people Maybe if we got back to serving the people things wouldn't be so difficult. Thank you, Craig Wagner I'll stamp and I'll put on document for tomorrow Okay, getting to the agenda 14-1 through 14 30 except the No, no 14 1 to 14 23 14 23 excuse me You're right 14 23 You're right except the suits that are coming from the north side 14 10 14 11 and 14 14 I would like to hold those till the next count to me and did I miss one? 14 13 2 was not a different one 14 10 14 11 and 14 I would hold those for the next council meeting and Steve No, just hold them in council Steve. Would you like to comment on that where we're at with that? Those claims relate to the sewer backups stemming from the Power failure at the North Avenue pump station back in August I believe and We're going to be after we get some further information from our Engineering consultant Donahue and associates we had as engineering consultant for that project. We're going to be Communicating once again with the general contractor on the project Try to point some things out to the general contractor to see if They will take a responsibility for the matter Without having the the property ours to undergo litigation or to get compensation Okay, no, I just want to explain so they know if they're watching tonight, they know what we're doing with these claims Everybody's aware of that that just Reminded me 14 1 will go along with 14 30. That's why I have 14 30 mark there Okay Under discussion Alderman Manny Thank you, your honor. I would like to pull 14 21 have a motion for yeah, let's make a motion Alderman Gough I'm sorry. Let's get a motion on the floor. Thank you 30 your move you're holding one 14 ones holding for 14 30. Okay, then it will lie over all right Then for documents 14 2 through 23 less 14 10 11 and 14 right I Would move that all our C's be accepted and adopted all our O's in communications Be accepted and filed we pass the resolutions and general ordinances and great ordinances Okay, it's been moved in seconded all our O's be accepted and filed our C's accepted and adopted Resolutions general ordinances and great ordinances be put upon their passage now under discussion Alderman Manny. Thank you I would like to pull 14 21 for separate consideration vote Okay, Alderman Manny I'd like to vote. I'm going to vote no on this myself and would do so with this desire that we Send it back for broader consideration and come back with a new door ordinance that we would include increased access in public parks at least in some measure for dog owners At the same time as we would authorize but limit use on the urban recreational trail limiting use to the Michigan Avenue point further north Thus keeping dogs away from that area to the south. That's periodically heavily trafficked So I would have encouraged others to vote no on this for those reasons to come back with a new ordinance Proposal in the near future. Thank you. Do is that a motion to form a motion to refer back to committee? No Did you know I'm Refreshing about it now. You just want to suffer. Okay, super. We'll take that first Alderman Vanderwill same thing Yeah, okay. Yeah on 14 21. I just wanted to say that I've gotten a lot of phone calls from people for and against having dogs on the On the trail on the lake and if it doesn't work out the council can change your ordinance back any time If we get hundreds of phone calls by June, we can change your ordinance and look at the ordinance again then so That's all I have to say. Thank you All the money Thank you, right? I don't I don't mind the idea Alderman Manny had of looking at allowing Pets and into some of our parks other parks and things. I think that might be something we should take a good look at But this item here as far as the Urbana Urban Recreational Trail usage Keem to public protection and safety first and passed in our committee on a vote of five to all and then I believe it went To our public works. We sent it to public works for their consideration rather than pass it in council That they would be able to look and I believe it was unanimous vote there also and part of the reasoning behind this is We allow people to walk their dogs and cats. I would suppose All the way up to where the trail starts from both sides on public sidewalks We're the same bikers joggers and runners and walkers and skaters go now Except when I get there to that recreational trail They have to walk in the street if they have a dog and it came to public protection and safety because the officer Assigned to that area through community policing was having a real problem Forcing dog owners to walk in the street and there are some people who have concerns about The dogs being on the trail with them on a recreational trail I understand that but I bike that trail and I've walked the trail myself Many times and I've never had a problem with dogs that were on the really My guess is is that we should hold them to the same standard that we do on the rest of our sidewalks and pathways in the city of Sheboygan and Also, if you actually look at the recreational trail in the county on that trail, they have horses out there They have rollerbladers. They have dogs. They have I Haven't seen anything else. I think other than that and but bicyclists and you name it joggers and everything and walkers and kids on Bicycles and the horses and dogs and there's there's no problem out there in that trail And I think that just allowing this trail to be an extension of the sidewalks and either end is probably a wise thing for public safety They're not allowed on the beach. They're not allowed In all our other parks, but perhaps some not some time We should be taking a look at some of these other parts to make parks to make Sheboygan a little bit more pet-friendly if possible So I just think we should send this through. It's been discussed in committee quite a bit and I'd like to see it get passed To another discussion Pat would you want to roll call on this? Yeah, you have to be okay Bonnet Doyle graph Manny Montemayor Moody Perez Rindflash then Akron Vanderwill Wongamon Warner Winninger Bowman 14 I is one no motion carry Okay, if there's nothing else Pat would you call a roll on the rest of the documents? Bonnet Doyle graph Manny Montemayor Moody Perez Rindflash Then Akron Vanderwill Wongamon Warner Winninger Bowman for 15 I's motion carried 1424 through 27 to be referred 1428 will hold for 1443 1429 will lie over Along with 1430 31 and 32 and along with 1401 1433 through 41 to be referred 1442 and 1443 we will hold In council lies over it will lie over till next meeting correct 28 along with 2428. Thank you Don 1444 and 45 lie over 1446 through 49 to be referred 1450 lies over 1451 by public protection and safety recommending the nine beverage operator licensed 6175 and 4920 based on their arrest history all of them and Doyle Thank you your honor. I move that we accept and adopt the report of committee Move the second accept and adopt report a committee under discussion. Thank you your honor I'd like a request to open up the floor to the audience Garrett Keefe one of the persons whose license was being denied would like to speak and Would mr. Chauvin of it's like to speak also? Do we have a motion to move the second open up the floor? You don't need a motion. We don't need it. He's automatically allowed to do it. Okay. Thank you. You may speak First off, I'd like to thank the mayor and everyone on the council for your time here tonight to hear me voice First off, I've realized that I have Most of you can see the paperwork in front of you have had my several mistakes in the past I accept them. I have paid for them and still paying for them as we speak but my case in point Mainly is that all of my mistakes have had nothing to do with Water Street pub or my being employed there They've all been Obviously mistakes on my my time and nothing to do with my occupation I have been employed by mr. John which and Water Street pub now for it will be four years come February I take my job very serious professionally, although it's on a different aspect I take it as serious as everyone here sitting in this room takes his or her job seriously Water Street pub is one of the finest and well established taverns in this city, and I take pride in being employed there once again, I Have been there for four years. I will be going back to school in January to further my education to further my life and put my mistakes in my past and farther behind me than they already are That's pretty much all I have to say. I thank you for your time once again I do take my job very professionally. I hate to pound out that point, but that's pretty much All I have to say is that I do take my job seriously. It is my full-time occupation I work 35 to 40 hours a week for mr. Johnovich And that's is my point is it is my job. It's my occupation. It's my income and That's all the time I have. Thank you Mr. Manovich speak all our favor Hold please Thank you very much. All I'd like to say is Garrett's working me for four years At that time Water Street has only got two people that work 35 40 hours if you do not give him his license He's no longer able to work for me. He is currently in jail. He's out on Hubert if he doesn't get Hubert He's going to be shipped back to lacrosse His chance of actually coming back in December after he gets done with jail are Non-existent as a small business owner. I'm going to need to replace him at that point in time We're putting another guy in shabu again out of a job Until hopefully next year all I'd like to say is Garrett's done really really well for me He's never got in trouble with the police while he's been at work Taverns go through after hours underage shrinkers all that out of everything that I've had between both my taverns with employees Gardsen ever once done anything illegal not once He gets in some trouble when he's on his own now when he's at work So between Hubert and working I don't think that there's any room for him to mess up. I would not keep anybody who actually can Jeopardize my license if I didn't really think that he's responsible at work So I really really really wish you guys would take a look at it and reconsider giving him some bartending license rather than taking Way his livelihood. Thank you for your time. Thank you All the time. Thank you. Mr. Keith is correct in that his violations were not directly related to the Licensing function, however, they were indirectly related Which means it was a judgment call on the part of the committee and I'll give you the violations that were concerned to the committee He had three underage alcohol Violations of prior to turning 21 since turning 21. He's had four OWIs Operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated. He's also had a damage to properly property Domestic disorderly conduct and eluding officers. So we felt that his record was of concern Thank you Did you want to take a separate vote on this? You have two licenses here. Yes, I would Okay, which one are pertaining to we're we're going to take mr. Keith's first 4920. Okay Here Alderman Warner Oh, thank you. Honor is chairman of public protection safety the umbrella for our licensing function Which Jerry Brunson does a very good job at I just have to say that whenever something like this comes to us. We take public safety Into consideration in the individual when we look at the record Is it something that we feel a little comfortable with in this case with mr. Keith won't be 25 years old and having all these violations. It was a concern to the committee What we have done in the past if someone shows that over a period of six months or a year that they can Not get in trouble again to come back to us. We've Looked at granting them a license at that time, but these are all very recent in 2003. There were two of them 2001 there was a couple a couple of offenses and it's just they're so close together We didn't feel comfortable with it and by the way, mr. Keith can still work. He just can't work alone Scott have a license bartender on a premises. He can still have a provisional still work He just can't close up can't work alone. So It's just a feeling the committee is that you should be not denied Thank you all the wrong way Thank you, your honor I think one of the violation that concerned the committee the most was eluding police As you know, this is a very serious violation and the nose is full of horrendous accidents caused by this type of violation every day And so we looked at this one and we thought this really showed A very poor judgment on the part of the mr. Keith and it had a great effect on our decision Not that it had anything to do with his bartending, but it does really I think demonstrate judgment. Thank you. Thank you All the money Thank you, honor I just want you to know i'm going to abstain because garret is a friend of my son. Okay Okay pat, would you call her all? And I will be to deny his license Doyle graph Manny Montemayor moody Perez Rindflash Van Akron Van Der Wiel Wongerman Warner Wenninger Bowman Berg Boney Just want to make sure I had it right 12 eyes two nose one abstention Motion carried. Okay next one Thank you I'd like to Consider the license of Nicole cave rocks And she is not it To know other discussion pat, would you call the roll please graph? Manny Hi, montemayor moody Perez Rindflash Van Akron Van Der Wiel Wongerman Warner Wenninger Bowman Berg Boney Doyle Fifteen eyes Motion carried 1452 through 54 to be referred 1455 by finance recommending amending resolution providing for outside legal services for the great lakes company's project to increase and not to exceed cost of such services all of them graph You know I'll move that the rc be accepted and adopted and that the resolution be put upon its passage Moved to second rc be accepted and adopted and resolution be put upon its passage under discussion alderman montemayor Thank you, mayor Two questions two questions Did the city realize that the costs were going up substantially as they were going up Second question any negotiations to reduce the amount asked for uh Marilyn No, I guess We were caught off guard somewhat the the last estimate we got was The number that we had presented to the council Back in early may or the end of april. I think we brought it in it was adopted in may at 120,000 dollars We weren't being billed on a regular basis the first the bill we received for the whole year service was back in august Or september and Costs did escalate Pretty rapidly as we got closer to the closing. I guess You know you could say a lot of things with hindsight If you'd known that it would Would have been that high would you have done things differently? Perhaps Might have monitored things more carefully, but I know there was a time crunch There always has been a time crunch that the developer had to get up and going by the pga next year That involved A significant amount of time by the outside council and that that firm has it got closer to the closing There was more And more rushed need to complete development agreements and also the The sub documents if you will the the ground leases the The reimbursement agreements and all that stuff. So there was more people at the firm involved and That sort of geometrically tends to increase things The good news I did check today as far as The amount of fees since Since the closing Which was like the end of july and from From mid august until now There's you know, we've incurred about six thousand dollars worth of fees But As I say near june and july The meter was going very rapidly and I guess I'm not happy about it. I don't think anybody's happy about it, but I've looked at the bills I don't think there's any issue that the work that they billed us for Was actually performed by their firm as far as negotiation. I did talk to them about that They're not willing to negotiate on it They did say that If if we wanted we could take some period of time in which to pay it I think our intent was to bond Next month for the blue harbor project and to include all the tiff expenses or a lot of the tiff expenses in the borrowing So I don't know that it's it's something we want to consider as far as stretching out payments, but The firm has told me and they're Sort of designated point person has told me that they feel that the service was rendered They feel it was professionally Performed and so forth and they're not really in a position to start cutting their fees Alderman van der Waal Thank you, your honor Just one question if you know, I remember we were always waiting for great lakes For a very extended period of time would it be unethical or wrong? To ask them to pay for a portion of the fee Um, I don't know. I guess that's a council decision I'd feel a little uncomfortable about doing that after the fact I think if we were going to do that that would have been something that we would have negotiated up the front And actually thinking about that and discussed that a little bit You know the problem you have in doing that is Sort of diluting who they're representing in other words if Great lakes is paying half the bill then are they really representing us in To uh to our best interests or they sort of taken a neutral position and just draft draft and documents You know the problem we had early on and and one reason why we looked at hiring that firm was great lakes was using fully and larger which is Bond firm that we had been using At that time for bond services We had used quills and brady for bond service prior to that and a lot of the issues That we knew that were going to be addressed were really financial issues and bonding questions and private activity questions and things like that and It was kind of a feeling that we had to you know pull out pretty good sized guns to to Counterbalance their use of fully and larger firm And I I think while You know the cost is Is a big cost and whether we would have Hired them knowing what the cost would have been I don't know But I do think we were well served by their service I feel what we ended up with was In the city's best interest as far as agreements In the beginning fully and lardner on behalf of great lakes was pushing to use a different entirely different sort of mechanism for funding through lease revenue bonding that That was appealing to fully and lardner they had done that before but We felt was not the way to go because The revenue stream was Not secure lease revenue bonds work good where you've got like a utility Sewer utility or water utility where you know what there's a revenue stream Here there wasn't a revenue stream And our financial consultants were saying that It would probably be an unmarketable sort of product on a lease revenue bond. So anyway, there was a lot of things that went into it a lot of things that Sort of contributed to Them spending an awful lot of time. I did go back there their last month or so And kumer was spending You know every day I think the last month she averaged like 10 hours a day Uh every day of the week, you know over the entire month of july weekends and everything working on this project and at At guelz and brady rates that adds up pretty fast Alderman prez Thank you, your honor. This is a really tough situation for me to vote for And I hope that the words I am going to speak to you tonight or not misconstrued As being words for personal political gain Even though the past voted patterns of this common council assure me that this resolution will pass tonight with flying colors I am going to vote against the passage of this resolution Only five months ago. This common council authorized the cost of attorney's fees not to exceed a hundred and twenty thousand dollars In the blue harbor project It was a cap. We were told Apparently that cap imposed by this council had very little meaning The cost we were being asked to approve tonight is more than three times What this council authorized? Only five months ago The cost is now $400,000 It has been suggested that the amount $120,000 was only an estimate If that is the case Somebody was way out of whack Moreover, I don't recall a resolution this council passed five months ago mentioning anything being an estimate At what point during those few months that this city lose control of the attorney fees being charged At what point did those attorneys fees Start to become exorbitant and grossly excessive of the previously authorized amount Why was this council not notified that extra services were being required of the attorneys Where is the $400,000 to pay this bill going to come from? The problem with entering into a business relationship with anybody Whereby services are to be rendered only up to a stated amount is when the amount is reached The city has to bargain for further assistance in the midst of a transaction And the city usually ends up bargaining to its detriment Or faced being left out in the coal Unfortunately, this type of open-ended contract and has been characteristics of the Guharba project I never liked it then and I certainly don't like it now How many of my fellow alderman would casually casually dish out out of your own pocket More than three times the amount of money Then you had previously agreed to pay for anything My vote of no tonight is a simple message to this administration If you are going to deal Deal like the money you're spending is coming directly out of your pocket not out of somebody else's pocket And by that I mean the taxpayer Thank you Steve would you like to reply to that that this is not the taxpayers money? Well, uh, yeah, this is this is a tiff project. These are tiff eligible expenses. Um, that That doesn't mean they're not coming out of somebody's pocket, but they They're proud to be project expenses and will be paid back through increments generated by the project Assuming that there are increments generated from the project Rich did you want to comment on this? I think Steve explained it pretty well, but it would be included in the next edit issuance The sale is scheduled for the next Council meeting on november 3rd for uh, be both the tax incremental district number six that issuance approximately four million dollars and then there'll be, um The bond anticipation notes for the convention center approximately eight million dollars will be scheduled for the next Council meeting on november 3rd Rich do you ever remember alderman pres said it came out as a cap of a hundred twenty thousand dollars for spending on a finance Was it? I think the resolution said not to exceed not to exceed was Okay, alderman Thank you, alderman montimer Thank you, mayor Thank you, steve for explaining and alderman pres. I can understand how you feel And I also feel that If this is our bill we must pay it's as simple as that and um Triple oops, of course certainly hurts But if it is our bill we must pay it And now that you said that the money will come from the tiff not from our taxes That helps but still oops Thanks Alderman Uh, thank you your honor I'd like to put this into a broader context and ask david biebel to speak to the issue of costs that are actually coming in Under estimates for things like the promenade well Basically the the contracts that have been let for the public portions of the project such as the streets The utilities the the sanitary sewers the promenade Those bids have come in under the original estimates based on on the tid that was originally developed as a budget So we're under budget for some of those public improvement projects that we've already been under contract for so Rich can maybe explain a little better on how how that affects the tid budget There might be excess capacity within the budget, but that that should have helped how much under david I don't have those right off the top of my head, but I I specifically remember the promenade I believe was about 300 000 under budget as well as the roads and and the utilities I don't have it right in front of me, but I know it was at least 150 to 200 000 under the budget But like I said, I don't have those right in front of me But I know those three projects that the public improvements did come under our original estimates So the money we're spending for legal fees actually were budgeted in the project But yet we if we could have saved on legal fees we'd have saved that too I'd have to then refer to the rich and paulette on the original tid budget with the grand total was I know the portion of public construction for the projects that we let came in under budget So I I'm not sure of all the legality. There should be excess capacity within that tid budget Richard paulette Yeah, I don't have the complete numbers I have some of the earlier projections but I don't have everything that has come in since then but we were looking over About 425 000 for professional services and some of the original projections But that did have some of the environmental consultees and it also so as a combination of of both the legal and the environmental But as they said, there's there's been, you know various ones that have to come in under budget and This of course, you know, I know it was a very tough process and Was very difficult for both sides to go through was much longer than both sides anticipated Obviously great lakes also incurred a lot more legal expenses than they expected Um, I think, you know one plus side is, you know, one thing we had to make sure is that everything the city was protected was covered And I think steve and corals did that quite well We also wanted it to be a success and we knew we had to have a complete project Not only with the resort and water park, but also the 64 condos that would be under construction And we had to have incentives that in place In order for them to do that and we had of course have them agreed to those conditions and those incentives So there there was a lot of Things that we incurred every step along the way that just took a lot more time than we expected And and I think corals was very dedicated in doing that and trying to protect the city Yes, it's a shocking bill when we got it We do not expect it to be that high, but I think also the product that we got was was a very quality product from corals Hang on rich Alderman right No actual question. I'm just a statement. I actually want to vote no on this one But probably not for the reasons why people are thinking for it On my experience on public works committee. I have seen time and time again how Our departments in our planning and our budgeting The public works department, excuse me has come under budget a lot of times only to see those savings be passed on elsewhere And now the city is paying for out of taxpayers money We are going to pay for out of the did district when we want to bond for it But there we could have bonded for less and that savings gets eaten up by by another Something has nothing to do with public works has something to do elsewhere over that For that reason, I'll vote no second reason though is recently when orange cross came back to us and asked for a raise Contrarily we had to do it and much like this situation. I understand. We probably have to do it anyway It is our bill like Marilyn Montesbiere had said we must pay it But we did vote make a message saying that That doing so was unacceptable and I would like to vote no I think walls and Brady you're getting the best when you hire them I think they've done a good job in terms of negotiations with us But there's no way that they would know that the work that they would have to do for us would be as little as 120,000 They should have known from the very beginning would be a bill about this size And I feel that they should have come forward with us right away and I'd like to send them a message Okay Alderman Rock Thank you. Your honor. I just wanted to give the council some idea what happened at At finance committee. We basically asked a lot of the same questions that were were brought up here and uh, Alderman Stephan had brought up the fact about Negotiating with the cost of it and at that time when we told no, but um Alderman Vander wheelie had mentioned something about asking great lakes company to To pay some of this and I believe it was a feeling of the finance committee Or at least myself For sure on the finance committee that I thought no, we couldn't do that because we were asking quarrels and Brady to protect us From great lakes company from taking advantage of us and and from getting us the best deal We could for our citizens and so forth and that's what we did I also want to make sure and and mention again that the $400,000 that we are paying or in this $280,000 difference from what it was originally estimated to be Is is all coming out of the tiff district. It's not coming out of the taxpayers pocket And um, it will be included in the borrowings that we are doing in november Thank you. Alderman Warner I think I guess I will vote to support this I I don't like it any more than anyone else does anytime you have to pay more for something I had to pay An awful lot to get my brakes fixed on my car last week I went in for one price and when I got there And ended up being almost twice as much And uh, but in this case, it's unfortunate. I just had one thing I was wondering, you know, we had a lot of special meetings We had committee the whole meeting special council meetings that all adds to this cost There was a lot more information that was requested by this council that they had to bring in We wanted more information on on one phase of it and other things And they had to come here and send send their people here And I would just assume that That's add something to the cost of this thing And you know, you could add that up pretty quick And I don't know what to get a hundred or more dollars an hour probably I don't think it's ever a good thing that you have to do this but Unfortunately the bill the city got and like we send tax bills To the people out in the city and we expect them to pay them and and we have to pay our bills also Thank you. Alden Van der Wiel. Thank you, Your Honor I just want to say that hindsight is always 2020 and this is just a message that Next time we uh go for outside counseling. We just have to be more careful. Thank you Okay Pat Would you call the roll please Manny Monta Mayor Aye Moody Perez Rindflash Ben Akron Aye Van der Wiel Aye Wongerman Aye Warner Aye Wenninger Aye Bauman Aye Berg Aye Boney Aye Doyle Aye Graf Aye Thirteen Ayes, two Noes Motion carried 1456 by finance recommending distribution disbursement of the city's 2002 and 2003 CDBG funds Alden McGraw Your Honor, I'll move that we accept and adopt the RC of the finance committee And that the two resolutions be put upon its passage Move to second accept and adopt the report of the finance committee and the resolution to be put upon your passage Is there any discussion on either or? Hearing none, would you call the roll please Monta Mayor Aye Moody Aye Perez Aye Rindflash Aye Ben Akron Aye Van der Wiel Aye Wongerman Aye Warner Aye Wenninger Aye Bauman Aye Berg Aye Boney Aye Doyle Aye Graf Aye Manny Aye Fifteen Ayes Motion carried 1335 R.O.L. by city plan commission recommending amending the zoning of property at Excuse me, 1427th house 15th street Alderman Warner I thank your honor I make a motion to accept and file the report of officer and pass the attached ordinance Move to second accept and adopt Accept and adopt accept and file the R.O.L. and pass the attached ordinance under discussion Under discussion your honor I thank you this is relative to rezoning the property located at 1427 South 15th street from class neighborhood residential to class urban industrial and I know Alderman Moody has a concern about this uh recently Leslie Umburger on behalf of Amy McNeil inquired about operating and potentially expanding a metal art Studio at 1427 south 15th street the property is currently zoned neighborhood residential and it must Be changed to a urban industrial to allow such a use and this is one of those things that slipped Through with the 1996 zoning update and it seems we find one or two of these each year And these this there already is an industrial building on this property And it has operated that way for many years in the past, but somehow this got put into the neighborhood residential zoning Coordinated should not have been This is also compatible with the city of Sheboygan's comprehensive plan for the area So the plan commission recommends approval Okay, I have to another discussion when you call the roll, please Moody Perez Rindflash Then Akron Vanderwill Wongamon Warner Winninger Bowman Bird Bonnet Doyle Groft Manny Montemare 15 eyes motion carried 1357 resolution by Alderman Groft Winninger Stefan Doyle and Bonnet Transferring funds to establish estimate estimated revenue And appropriation for business development loan to i and z properties ink Alderman Groft now I move that the resolution be put upon its passage Move to the second resolution be put upon its passage under discussion Alderman Ben Akron Your honor, I just want to know what is this is this a motel? And the restaurant on a street You got 922. This is for the big fountain park Fountain park Every modeling are already done They're done. I believe correct Thank you Another discussion we call the roll please Perez Rindflash Then Akron Vanderwill Wongamon Warner Winninger Bowman Bird Bonnet Doyle Groft Manny Montemare Moody 15 eyes motion carried 1457 we'll go to finance Steve 1458 is communication from Ron Van Roy and president of RCS relative to a bill for grass cutting at 1221 St. Clair Avenue That will go to finance 1459 is communication being petitioned from Marty Puttson at all supporting the effort of Screamers Tavern to keep their race car sign on their lower roof We will take that to plan commission 1460 is resolution authorizing signing an easement for a mini storm sewer to be constructed in a portion of property at 3907 south 17th place Public works 1461 is a committee report by the special committee on risk management With respect to Mead Public Library participating in the city's medical prescription drug and dental benefit programs effective in 2004 That will lie over Moving to the second day adjourn under discussion Hearing none all in favor