The other one had a very strict agenda and very helpful. But we have less of an agenda than some very reasonably bright people. And we're going to speak very good experience. I will speak for myself. My name is Jason Grunewam, no relation. I'm a translator from Hindi and a fiction writer and I teach at the University of Chicago. My name is tragically not Jason, but Antonia Lloyd-Jones. And I'm a translator of Polish literature full-time based in London. And that's all I do. I'm John Masjak. I work for a commissioned sales rep group. We represent publishers to bookstores. I have about, depending on how you count them, somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 to 200 presses that I represent. Probably more, but it's hard to count at that upper level. I'm Jeff Waxman. And I work for other press. I see at least one other publication. That's nice. But I've also worked in marketing for the University of Chicago press. And there I worked a lot with Siegel books. So between the three of them, a fair amount of translations across my desk. Before that, I was a bookseller at the Seminary Co-op, where I kind of specialized in translation if in fact that is a drama, which it's not. But it is as far as anyone else is concerned. And kind of how we're going to be treating it today. Because you all write in very different languages. We're reading them. But if I were to guess why you showed up, it's because you're looking for a readership. For yourself or for your author. And there's no good answer for those of you. They're hard to find. There isn't a readership for books in translation purely outside of the people in this room at this conference. Not even kidding. But when I saw Scott Estetito here, I was like, oh, that was it. But what we do have are some guidelines that we can help provide. I'm going to be speaking on behalf of publishers. But I can tell you that I spoke to a couple of different publishers that I don't work for about this panel. And I got some extremely contradictory advice. Which is funny. You're screwed, all of you. Some publishers are going to want your undying devotion to your book and to your author.  And others will want to hear from you again. They said this is our book now. And let us sell it the way we think best. To represent these competing ideas, we actually have these translators who, between the two of them, kind of represent, more or less, I think, the spectrum of what a translator can have. We've got UK and US publications in India, for that matter. And Australia. The books in Australia. New Zealand. I've had New Zealand publications. New Zealand. We've got Jason teaches as well as translates. Antonia only translates, which is a rare breed. Very hungry. They're rare because they don't get enough to eat. And between the two of them, they've also published with some of my favorite publishers that I don't work for. Melville House. And Seven Stories. And also a couple of university presses. Yale and Northwestern. And you've also published, I think, some YA as well. They've been marketed as YA, but that's more my problem. I did a book with a very small publisher who essentially based in Israel, actually. But had an American imprint. And that was YA. Come again? No, called Pen Light or something like that. It's a tiny thing. But anyhow, to start with, I'm going to say that what I look for from a translator is a level of engagement. When the book gets to me, it's already been bought. And I had no say in that. That's what the acquiring editors are for. They're very interested in the literary merits of the book. The marketing often with small assets will come second. And so when I say this, it's already mine. And I have to kind of find something to do with it. The questions I'll ask will be about who you all know. And that's what it comes down to in a lot of cases. Who will review your book? And sometimes it's your friends. And whose books have you reviewed? What are your thoughts on writing about other people's work? Everything is a two-way street. We need to be involved with other translators and other people writing about translation to have your work be seen by them. So after I ask all these questions and answer them without asking you, I'll Google you. It kind of ends up in your court. I'm going to ask Antonia if she wants to tell us a little bit about her experience. I think as a translator, I'm not just a surrogate mother. Those are my children. And I'm going to have some say in how they're brought up. So once I've produced a book, I do a great deal to help with the promotion. And I try to work, first of all, obviously, if your publisher has a publicist or a publicity department. It makes a great deal of sense to offer your services to them. And if they say, oh no, no, we don't want your involvement. You can make them want your involvement by having some very good and creative ideas to help them. And one of the first things to do, if you have a nice live author, which is a great thing to have. Well, it has its pluses and its minuses. But obviously it's nice if you can have book events where the author comes over to your country and you promote the book. And that costs money. So what you can do is you can help the publisher by telling them where there is money available for that. And for instance, in my case, I'm translating Polish. There are Polish cultural institutes in New York. The representative is sitting over there. And in London. So I will, I make sure I am in touch with the people working in those institutes on the literature side all the time. Telling them what I'm doing. Not much in their interest to know what I'm doing. And then I also tell the publisher, so I tell the publisher that there's this source of money. But I also tell them about things like, for instance, in Britain, English Penn has a promotion fund. And publishers can apply for funding for promotion. And it's very generous. And obviously that's more competitive than the cultural institute funding. But there are these sources available. So I help the publisher to know, first of all, where they can get some money. And then I start to have ideas for them. I will start suggesting literary festivals that might suit the writer. And try and place the writer at particular events. And keep feeding these ideas through to the publisher. And then I will also help the publisher by giving them a list of potential reviewers that I know about. Because often I know far more about who's interested in Polish literature than that publisher can possibly know. Because they don't publish Polish literature every day of the week. And also, and sometimes there are reviewers who I know personally, but not always. Sometimes I just know they've given a favorable review to something else. So I keep lists going. I make sure I keep track of who's done what so that I can then refer to these for the next book. And then also I can suggest presenters for events. Once you start to get some events in place, I'm often suggesting who can present the person. So an example is I had a book out with Melville House in May in New York. And I've been working closely with the editor all along to think about what readership this book should be reaching. And we work together with Sean from the Polish Cultural Institute to set up events for this author. And then Alex Zucker, who probably a lot of you know, who's the co-chair of the Pan American Translators Committee. The book happened to be about the Czechs. Alex translates Czech, so we brought him in as a presenter. So it's all about putting together the jigsaw pieces. And then the other thing is that this particular author doesn't speak English. So I offer my services as an interpreter. And I very often, if the author does speak English, I will offer to be the reader. Because there's nothing worse than listening to your translation being read by somebody in a very strong accent who really is struggling with the English. So you can be part of that event. And my involvement comes right down to picking the author up from the airport and having them stay on my couch and taking them to the events in my car. And I have now had to institute at home the terrible bottle of wine, the alcohol I leave out because when Polish writers are staying, the level's on the whiskey bottle. So seriously go down in the tunnel. And I have this as my vengeance on me. And then another tactic that I have is obviously once you've got events set up, you're Facebooking, you're using Twitter, there's all the social media stuff that you can use and get other people to spread the word. And then another thing that I've been trying lately which is being quite successful is I identify people who might be interested in this book who are well placed to say something about it. And for instance, this author of the book we were promoting in May mentioned that he has a favourite very famous writer and he buys ten copies of this man's book at a time. So I thought, right, famous writer, you're going to help us here. And with a bit of magic, I got the guy's poem address. I wrote him a personal letter and sent the book. Of course these people are bombarded all the time, usually via their own publisher with requests for blurbs and so on. But I did it privately. And he wrote back very enthusiastically about the book. Could I send it to famous writer number two, please, who'd been telling all about it. And this book, Being About the Checks, I also had my friend happen to be going to an alumni event for her college. And Madeline Albright happened to have been at that college so she was given a copy of this thing and wrote his personal letters back about the book. But I can't quote those people because there's a personal, private contact. However, one of them's made it a book of the year in those newspaper lists. So that's a pretty nice piece of publicity. And that's all just thinking about, now what can I do with this? Who might be interested? What might I do? And keeping the publisher, obviously, informed the whole time of what I'm doing so that it's always done jointly and with full knowledge.  So you should say something. Are you sure you're not at a book publicist conference? Because everything you're doing is what publicity departments used to do when they had staff. That's more or less true. To speak to some of the points and Tony made, it is often a very good idea to push back and somebody pushes you out. If you feel like you can do, and if you want to do work for your book, you should. And on the other side of that, you mentioned having an author and how great it can be. Some of the most successful events I've been involved with have been for dead authors. Yes. And when you have a dead author, some of you might. Or anyone who doesn't speak English and will not travel, which is basically dead as far as the American readers. That's why you're here. You can still have an event. And the translator, and Tony has great examples, this can be the best proxy for an author. And I've seen this with dozens of translators, but there are, again, the ones who do it well, the Susan Bernofsky's out there, Natasha Wimmer, they are unusually good at speaking for their authors. Another thing is that if you were saying that's what the publicity department would do if they had the staff. It is, but a translator can do more because you have a much more personal connection as the translator. And you know that culture that you're trying to sell. And you understand far better what this product is. I mean, it's your product. You wrote that book. So you're always going to be able to talk about it better than the best publicist, actually. That's true. And it is complicated in that there are a great many venues for reviews, for events that don't want to hear necessarily directly from an author or a translator because they're too close to it. And you should let the publicity and the marketing department do their job. On the other hand, those personal connections, the people that you've known for years who are in your line of work and are thinking about what you do. Those are connections that being approached by me doesn't make any sense at all. I look like a weird page show. And when somebody has enough passion and a personal connection to it, that can make all the difference. Jason, did you want to tell us about your five books of the one? Right. So I'm going to, I mean, Antonio was talking more about general things that people can do, that translators can do. I'm going to speak about one author, two books, and five different publications of these two books. So the author is Uday Prakash, a Hindi author, contemporary living, very good friends, has slept on my couch many times as well in his, I think, four trips to the U.S. And we've collaborated on two books. One is The Girl with Gold Carousel, which was first published in 2007 with Penguin India. So this is book one, publication one. And Penguin India at the time was just starting a Hindi list. They hadn't, they'd been exclusively, more or less publishing in English, and they were starting to publish Indian languages for the first time. Uday was one of the first Hindi authors who they signed up. So that's how the translation of The Girl with Gold Carousel was accepted with them. There, so this is, this first story is a story of things that didn't go as well as they could have gone. The editor who was assigned for the project had never worked with translations before. I think I was quite a young, quite a young editor. We got into, you know, a sort of disagreement. And when I say disagreement, you know, I mean that, you know, she would, she would say, do this, do this, do this. And I would say, you know, emails, 50 pages long explaining, walking her through all the choices that I had made. Stop me if this sounds familiar to anybody. So I think this sounds like a pretty fascinating text anyway. I haven't looked at those emails in a while. Anyway, to make that part of the story a little bit short, she had a particular relationship with the publisher and that sort of poisoned the well a little bit for that project. So not a lot of publicity was put into it from the Penguin India side. We did get some nice reviews in some Indian newspapers. It was a little bit before social media had kind of taken off in the way that it is now. So our sort of options that way were limited. So what we did was a kind of a DIY tour bringing Uday over here for the first time. Luckily I had some photographs of the dean of my university in a compromising position in somewhere in a safety deposit box. I'm joking. But for various reasons I was able to squeeze out some money from the dean at the University of Chicago to bring Uday over. Even though the book wasn't technically available here we did some events there.  That just simply doesn't exist and unfortunately probably will never exist, you know, for India in the same sort of ways. Although there's a private foundation now that I'm hoping will fulfill some of the role of like the German book office and putting together a calendar. Anyway, so that was experience number one. Experience number two is the second book that we did called The Balls of Delhi, which was, it's three novellas and that book came to be because I was cold contacted by an editor at the University of Western Australian Press and something about Australians because they're so maybe lost, I don't know, in this very remote part of the world they just kind of know everything that's going on in literature and the arts. It's true. And I pitched her this idea for a book of three novellas, which you know, if you're an editor in general you have, you wake up in the middle of the night with sort of cold sweats having a nightmare saying, oh my God, someone tried to pitch me a volume of three novellas.  They were setting up interviews on ABC Radio and we were getting reviews and I mean, probably one of the reasons because Australia is such a small, you know, market and everybody knows everybody, but that was a great experience in what a publisher and a publicist can really do. And then from there, she sold the rights to Hatched India and then Seven Stories Press. Right, and Seven Stories Press, I'm skipping one other, Seven Stories Press has just been sort of an ideal relationship to exactly the kind of receptiveness to all the different creative ideas that Antonia was talking about, pitching them ideas about different events that we can do here and there and so we cooked up some very interesting stuff with them. So I think I'll stop there. That seems reasonable. I'm sorry? That seems very reasonable. Okay. In the course of this little chain, after kind of while these translators are doing their additional work, we've got some other people at work and one of the first people that I talk to after I get the book is our sales reps. John is not one of mine. John is a... We're legally obligated not to work together now. Yeah. We really shouldn't even be in the same room. But it's a closed door. Oh, there's a guy. But John sold to my store when I was a bookseller and he was one of my favorite reps to come through the doors. He was one of the best read and a former bookseller himself so he knew exactly what we needed to hear. He also is a commission rep for the Abraham Associates which reps a large number of university presses and trade publishers. Go ahead. Wow. The good news is I don't have any particular specialty in selling translated works. I sell a lot of different kinds of things. Got many books. Yeah. Good books. I sell Grumpy Cat. I sell pens. I sell journals. I sell fiction. So what I do bring to my job is curiosity. As a former bookseller, I'm always looking for something great to read. So when the marketing people and the editors come to a various sales conference meetings and present the upcoming season of books, I'm looking for something good to read. I'm looking for something new because I started out as a bookseller. I started out trying to convince actual paying customers why they should read a book when they walked in the store. And when I became a sales rep, I kind of kept that job. I just walk in the store and I sell it to booksellers who then have to take what I tell them and sell it to their customers. So I do a lot of reading of manuscripts. I do a lot of reading of marketing sheets. I do a lot of reading of finished books after the fact.  It's crazy. But the good news is I'm an interested outside observer. I don't have any specialty. I don't speak any other language. I don't even know what it's like to have another language in my head like you guys do. It's very impressive. But what I do know is bookstores and I do know how to talk to booksellers. And so when marketing people, like Jeff, come to sales conference and they start telling us that they've got this new book or a new wave of books coming for the season and they start telling us about a book like a project that something that Antonia's done and she's already got lined up a festival or a reading in New York and that's the cornerstone of somebody coming to the United States and then they're hoping to scrape together a tour and maybe send them to Chicago or send her to Los Angeles or she has a cousin who's come to the United States and she's in North Dakota and we don't know, is there a bookstore there? All of these things make me prick up my ears because all right, we've got some things to talk about now beyond just here's a book that we're publishing, it's been translated, the cover is so-so, the author says it's really good, the translator says it's really good, the editor is fairly convinced about it, good luck with it. Actually having a person in the United States for us, whether it be the translator or the author or above is amazing. It's like, okay, this is something I can hang a story online, talk to my booksellers because it usually means that there's going to be something written up in The New York Times or The New Yorker or some newspapers that still exist, whatever. Yeah. It just, it bubbles that book up to the top of what I'm going to be looking at to read and hopefully it has been well translated. Hopefully I do find something else that I can talk about as a reader who's talking to other booksellers. I don't know what else to add. I was going to say, this is a kind of a mutual circumstances right now that these people are almost never in the same room. The translators and the sales rep have layers of buffers between them. And some of the publishers that Jason and Antonia have worked with are very, very much like the one I work for. I work for other press. Like Melville House N7 Stories, they're distributed by Random House, which means they have the best distribution network in the country, in the world, actually. And so the books are widely available if the buyer, Jason, buys them. That said, those layers also act as a sort of dampening effect. A translator's passion for their project has to pass through the editors, to the marketing people, then on to the sales reps, sometimes through a few different layers, because as a distributed press, I don't get to talk directly to the sales reps. I do, because I'm kind of a curator. But I'm supposed to go through like two or three layers at Random House. And my bullet points will get whittled down to like three or four of the most salient points according to somebody. And I'm inferred that it's sometimes before it gets to a rep. And sometimes there are, you were on a conference call earlier today with Princeton University, yes? Right. And he was listening in, but you probably weren't speaking, yeah? Well, I was talking on your cell phone in public as a sure way to be rude. But a lot of times these are blind, or like one-way blind calls. Yeah. We were listening to people to describe books. Right. I mean, we were listening to our sales director at the press, and we were listening to some of the other marketing folks who were there, each presenting their books and talking through the key points. So there's, I mean, there's room for questioning, of course, when something comes up, and sometimes they'll seek out feedback, especially if there's something regional. The group that I work for represents my many, many, many body publishers to 12 states of bookstores here in the Middle League country.  But most of these sales conference presentations are, you know, like this, kind of a one-way street. And I said, you represent many presses, but how many titles might that be that you're representing in a sales? The large scary number is I travel around my territory twice a year. So there's two seasons. Books are published in one of those seasons. And in the aggregate, there's somewhere in the neighborhood of 5,000 books that I'm selling each season. So that's your book, sitting with 4,999, that's being presented in one or two different meetings. Which is one rep. And that's just one rep. Random House has two reps for every, at least two, because they also have children's. But, you know, that's what I said. For every store, and each of them will be presenting like 1,500 to 2,000 titles. So it's easy to get lost. Most of what my job is, is making sure that our books at least aren't getting lost. Other press, that's 25 titles a year.  And I actually spend about half of every month visiting bookstores to make sure that they've gotten copies that they've read them, that they've heard about them appropriately. It's kind of a mop up job. But, those people that I'm always mopping up with are represented today. Because you're the problem. You have Conrad. One of Jason's colleagues is a man named Conrad who has read just about every book and loved just about every book that I've sent him. I do make an effort to only send the books to the right bookseller. I think on a first name basis with about 5,000 booksellers. That's important. It's disturbing. I see them in my sleeve. You too, buddy. But the last link in this chain from translator to publisher to sales rep is Jason before it gets to the buyer. And you want to tell them a little bit about the reader. He is the buyer. What Jeff was saying earlier about translation being a genre, when I get presented books I don't think of books as being in a genre. I am sitting there trying to get the rep to relate to me why this book should be in the store why I should be stocking it. How are my customers going to find out about it? What's the importance of the book? And a lot of times it's people like Jeff that does hound me constantly. Call me. Emails. Call me. Who really makes me take notice of certain books. We get into the right booksellers' hands. We get the reads. And that's really important. Is having your publisher make sure that there's available early reading copies of the book out. The sales on the book will just change if I start off with display quantity in the store compared to you just representing it as a single copy. But I do sit through a lot of appointments when Mesjak comes through. It's a long day. There's drinks. There's beer. That is the thing about publishing. It's always drinks. We have finished off at my house over a case of beer at times. And so it's all about the rep's enthusiasm over the book that he gets from the editors that hopefully come down from marketing different layers that I don't have to deal with. And he's going to bring me all the information the promotions, the possible reviews and his enthusiasm and I would say John is probably one of the best. If he's really enthusiastic about a book he would bring his accounts, his key accounts copies of the book to be read and to pass around. And his enthusiasm in fact he dropped a book off yesterday I don't think it was a book in translation. But he was talking to my book sellers as he was walking through the store and he remarked to me today because I wasn't there. He remarked to me this morning that he'd be shocked if the book was still on my desk. It was, but I could tell I had been thrown around. It had been handled. My desk is fair game. And so that's kind of how I look at translation. I do care about who the translator is personally for what I read. You know, like the what did I say, Jenny or Fendak? Her end of days. This is the first time I saw a galley of her book, a galley of one of her early translations by Susan Bernofsky. And when I finally saw it, I've never seen an arc of any of her translations early. And we had three people read the book ahead of time and we're selling it really nicely. It's at the front of the store. It'll be there through the holidays. And I think that's new direction. It is. New direction. And it's, you know, it means so much to get that early read out there. It's good for the rest. It's good for us. And we really rely on that early kind of read to know who to sell it to. As soon as I finished that book, I knew six customers that I just talked the book up to and handed the book when it came in to the customer. So it's very important. And that's how books are sold. It's pretty much one by one for the last part. I know that I can visit a store in Richmond, Virginia. I get little lists of where our books are selling. And so I can track by city and based on that I can actually break it down by account by which bookstores are selling our books. And if I show up at a store in Richmond, Virginia and I sell 40 copies over the next three weeks, I mean that puts them over most metropolitan areas of any size. And this is how it's done. We need the most information, the most opportunities and the translators are really the people who I was best suited to get it to us. For most translators, speaking specifically what Antonia was recommending, when you finish your book, when you finish the productions, that's when you really have to start working. It's a lot of work. You don't always get paid for it, but if they do sleep on your couch sometimes there's extra money to pay you out of the cultural institute funding, for instance. And there are other things you can do to help the publicity persons such as translate interviews with the writer that exists in the original language, because they don't have access to that stuff. You do. You can be that middleman and you cannot know what prizes they should be putting the book in for. You can place pieces of the book with literary journals online in advance. That's another good way of getting people knowing about the book. All the time you're helping the publicist who's trying to sell 50 different books that week. This also speaks to what marketing is. You keep talking about really great publicity ideas. What marketing tends to be is the thing that aids discovery. That brings the book to the reader somehow. It's the thing that links together publicity and sales. It's kind of an overarching strategy. It's what makes what you do into an actual commodity. Which doesn't sound beautiful, I know. It's funny you said the word discovery, Jeff. I noticed there's, I don't know how many independent bookstores there are left in the country. They're growing now. There's more bookstores around the country in the United States now than there were last year. This is the third at least year in a row that we've seen this trend increasing. So that's good. A number of the, most of the independent bookstores belong to regional bookselling associations around the country. There's about 10 or 12 of them. A number of them this year started referring to their annual trade show as a show of discovery. For a long time the buzzword among independence was curation. We were looking down the collection into just the stuff that belongs which is a good way of thinking about it because it was a good response to their online competition which can theoretically stock everything that they're contractually working with. But then it also casts a bookstore as a museum. Right, exactly. And I don't know if the discovery thing came about as an intentional response to that. I think it's sort of trickle down from marketing terminology to discovery and awareness being the key ideas. But really everything we've talked about is just different ways of approaching helping the next level discover these books and the magic within them. I'm looking for some sort of hint, some sort of glow that I can then share. But if the marketer doesn't know about it then I don't know about it to pass it on. The phrase that you used earlier, a hook to hang it on, the most apt because that's what everybody's looking for. I mean that's what you're looking for when you're selling it to an editor and that's what they're looking for when they pitch it to me and we all need to find that right hook which is a boxing term, unrelated. One thing I was very impressed in this country I was at Book Expo America this year with an author and it's the first time I've been there for that and they had a day before the actual book fair opened when there were just booksellers admitted which I've never seen that before we don't have that with the London book fair and that was wonderful and these booksellers were really enthusiastic and they were queuing to talk to my writer and everything, it was a really really good feeling and then after everything was over I went off to the small town in Massachusetts where my stepmother lives and there in the bookshop was my book small place and I said to the guy who owns the bookstore who's a friend because I go there quite often I said how come you've already got this and he said our person was there at BA saw this, oh it's yours oh you know, he didn't realise it was mine so thank you Book Expo America He's the only person I think who's ever thanked Yeah I know Don't knock it It was her first trip there It was her first time Was it those green pills they handed me at the door? Oh I see But if anyone has any questions I think we can probably move on to that Yeah Yeah I'm wondering if they said right off the bat they can put up a website and talk to a couple people but the promotion is really on me and so I'm sort of flying on this human hand but I'm wondering if you can show me what I shouldn't do and also another question I would be judicious with the books I hand out so like when is it better to hand out a hard copy instead of the like Ask the person you're about to give it to if they read electronically because if they don't you're wasting that tiny little bit of electrons but then if they don't if they say I don't read ebooks then it's probably a better use of your time to publish books What language is it from? I'm just wondering if there's things that I might What you want to make use of I think is that there's an enormous Russian population in this country and if you think about large parts of New York Boston area there's a great Russian population and one of the things we looked at with this Polish book I translated about the Czechs was where are the Czechs in America or something like that but they're all sitting there more but you can use that because you can bet for instance with Polish books there's a lot of polls who live in Green Point in New York so there's a wonderful Polish library and there's a wonderful lady who runs the library who is more than keen to have us come and promote Polish books there so Sean will protest and I bet you there are Russian libraries Russian community and okay you're not trying to sell to Russians specifically because they can read the book in Russian however I find that people who are I suppose immigrants isn't the right word because these are people who have been here a long time but they're very very interested and often there's a whole next generation that is cut off from their own original culture and language they want to know about it so if I had a book like that with a tiny publisher and no money I would try to set up and supposing I don't know if your author can come here or but you can do this on your own you can set up library events where you read from the book and talk about him a bit and just do a little show and you can do that same thing in each place but try and make use initially of those Russian communities public libraries are very good I quite often started doing in Britain a little show where I talk about various books that I've translated and I read little bits and make it quite varied and short pieces so I don't bore people and then I have a few books to sell and it's always really really successful so that would be my advice on that The Russians, the Poles, the Chinese in any city where they have any sizable population they have they're on media and those newspapers are very well and it's a start they may not be the only people you want to sell a book to but it's a very good place and yeah I would inquire about I mean, you know, even it might not be that expensive to advertise in some of those newspapers but even if you can't do that just to make some contacts with some of the editors there to let them know about there's also, because we there's also often radio stations for those communities we have a Polish slightly public access television station and we've done your views with doctors on camera and the thing that we find is that particularly with the most established ex-backed communities and we found this with government Poles would buy a book because they read it in Polish years ago and they bought it to give to their American people they want, I get this in Britain a lot, there's a lot of Polish recent immigrants to Britain and of course all the British men see those Polish girls and you know, nature takes over but the Polish girls want their British boyfriends to know about their culture so they come and buy these books at these events but there's it really doesn't seriously, I've seen it happen with that book that's the thing they want to share with all the recent immigrants that's how we get a fourth generation of those and speaking to the idea that you might look amateurish I mean, I am anti-professional that is true there are many people who know about it for how unprofessional I can be but I don't believe sometimes that the veneer of professionalism is good for books discovery it helps that book fade away I don't know, it's easier to get lost over because everything presented the same way so your passion is more important than some publicity publishers name at the top of a piece of paper in fact, I have known publishers send out books and I've said, I'll send it to so and so he'd be really good to read it or she'd be really good and they say, oh no, it will send it you're not sending it and then there's no, it does like what the Poles say to a compote, I don't know how to say it in English but like a stone into it down a well but then I've sometimes subsequently sent that book myself with a personal note and got a response because these people are being bombarded with professional stuff and often it's your love and your passion that will actually be far more attractive than something official looking that's something I don't do anymore is I don't type letters everything I send out is handwritten interesting a personal pitch in a handwritten letter is so much more useful than anything that just looks like a press release because I've thrown away more press releases than I've read yes, no one reads them there's a question here that being said I mean is there any market in the country of the original author or an English version or for that matter what you're working on is the psychological response of a man living in Portugal fictional but under the crushing economic situation and perhaps even what would the English version do perhaps even in the European Union is a hopeful I mean definitely from the books I translated absolutely because there's a huge population of Indians who simply wouldn't read the Hindi version for any reason so I translated Will that's simply published in India in terms of the sort of ideal marketing though it's published first in the West either in the US or the UK to get that sort of glow of legitimacy and then oh yes this is something very interesting but I don't know that any of us can speak directly to how a book would be sold in Europe next year an editor on the panel well then only maybe the way translation rights are carved up like I only ever end up with at least now I mean in the past I've had stuff that had rolled in with rights but 95% of the books that I work on are either North America or the United States but uh you love it that why you got it free hi I also commented that English in China is very much a prestige language so I have a friend who is a an editor in China who agreed to sort of serve as a representative for my it's a book of translations a poetry book very long and poetic and those he managed to get it into some major bookstores in China it's actually been selling I think better than it's I was wondering is that actually could end up being the case it's just that when people in China are very interested in reading I'm like such a nice story it's like when can I get the next slide over but my question is so to the bookstore I'm going to see is my book air don't be guilty really okay thank you and if it isn't that I'm feel guilty that is my question so if you don't what do you do as the translator can you is there anything you can do to get your book in there I say hello my name is Antonia Lloyd-Jones I translate from the polish I have a very good friend named Jason Grudewald who translates from Hindi and I like to tell you about how fantastic his book is and that you should have it I do get people to go and ask for the book and then to order it oh really most of my relatives have had to do this oh you haven't got it but didn't you see this review but I was so hoping to get it but we can order it how quick can you get it the other question is when you do that's great okay I'm glad I have some friends to do that any of you do don't laugh you absolutely shouldn't and library acquisitions too educate them and if you do find your book is it useful to buy it like yourself if you have a decent contract you should be able to buy it from the publisher to discount it oh we sold a copy of it kind of priming the pumper that's what relatives are for is there anything your relatives don't do even poorer than she is they didn't have to read they didn't have to read the famous you get one some questions so many book reviewers and review editors read bloggers to know what to look for and book sellers read them and book sellers very frequently argue so if you can get away with distributing electronic copies assuming of course that your publisher doesn't have the budget to distribute to every blogger there are not people that I don't send books to because I don't know what's going to work sometimes there are people that I'll send them faster but a book blogger is depending on the size of the blog the readership almost always not a bad idea there's a very good blog called Pen Atlas if anyone's interested which exists promote translated books so take a look at Pen Atlas on the English Pen website and you may, there's a possibility that you can offer them something maybe write something yourself or have something by the author so they're always looking for good ideas I always thought for the next book I'd translate what I'd like to do sort of keep an ongoing blog-ish diary of the different translation choices I made and kind of allowing people to peek behind the scenes and maybe packaging that as sort of a deluxe edition box set type of thing or if not that then at least have the link there maybe in the book where people who are curious about that sort of thing could go and that's also serves various purposes too helping to educate people about translation and the process people love those things and you write about what you're doing or you write about from the translation point of view about your experience of a book and you can write a nice blog and there are various places to put them on the internet lots of good places and some of those people those editors who publish things like that are here can't see any of that isn't there a session on online journals maybe it's on right now but those people they're helpful in that way and one of the things I do is I spend a lot of time soliciting recommendations from booksellers and once I have them I find something that's spectacularly well written I say hey do you want to meet a review editor because I think you should be a reviewer too and building an additional extra reviewing like core reviewers for books seems to be one of the most important things to be doing so whenever I find anybody he has even a glimmer of intelligence and it says something that I haven't heard before about a book that I've been pitching to people I'll say I want to put you in touch with other people I want you to be writing about books and even if they're not mine because building up that kind of a culture where everyone is interested in everything that they could be writing about it I mean a book that's unreviewed never happened even a bad review which publicists will say sometimes there's no such thing as a bad review I mean I'm with them I don't use it as part of a conversation that's happening like somebody criticizing your book is an opportunity for somebody else to defend it not you don't ever don't engage but uh and I get a lot of translations people send me their translations publishers, translators and I'm starting to write more about what I read in translation because I'm getting all these books and I feel terrible that I don't read enough translations and I want the publishers to be recognized and I want the translators to be recognized and so my point to you after the vloggers don't just look at book vloggers per se but but look at people who might write about translation look at people who write about the culture but look at people who write about that and to follow up on what Jeff said about books that don't get reviewed I don't necessarily write about every book that I talk about I may not write about a book on my vlog but if the library asks about something you can mention this book a book that is undiscussed right because there is a lot of discussion that goes on online people email me all the time I get lots of things what do you remember from the year would you recommend a book from the old cut to me but if somebody has specific criteria I'm looking for a book about world war 2 that wrote about translation and I haven't read a book but I might still recommend it there's a lot of odd ways that I try to make people read books even if I haven't read them but I've heard about them so cast the blind net there's actually a subset of book bloggers there's a whole cadre of book bloggers who seem to exist just to echo their own echoes and they self-identify as book bloggers but the larger community I think is what I was thinking about while you were talking I mean I belong to a certain other communities you guys have a really solid community here of translators and world literature experts reaching outside of that thinking a slightly broader about the publication of the things that you're working on getting to know booksellers there's a very diverse and active group on Twitter Tumblr of booksellers and publishing people there's nothing stopping you from engaging them talking about your books genuinely, excited that's right but like you say, you're a person who blogs about words and books not a book blogger and people like you everywhere are probably going to be interested in your books how big are we talking? well I think one thing the book I cast I did was one of the lucky ones that's nice but then other ones including whoever that's on the phone had not been chosen it was one of the ones where they said well we'll publish this but we're not going to sell any it's an indictment it was too late by the time I figure out that they're not doing anything it's the sort of yeah I wouldn't take no for an answer on that even if some of the books are getting wonderful marketing budget and they're really putting 50 grand into selling it which is very nice I would still try to get to know the people in the publicity department at some level it may not be very easy but it's worth trying and try just write to them just write to them saying oh I'm so thrilled with what you did with such and such a book for me it's really nice and I'm very grateful and I particularly like this or by the way did you know this and this and I've got this coming up and it will be so nice to meet you I hope we'll have a chance one day just write a kind of friendly letter like that appreciate what they're doing and be a human being and address them as one and see where you get see where you get to and that must be very annoying because I mean oddly enough as a translator of Polish I have really worked with very big major publishers who have loads of money and they've built things I'm about to have this experience but it's interesting that it's not always because they don't want people to perceive, they want people to forget that it's a translated book don't they they don't like translation they're a bit allergic to it well then they've got to be educated that's what I think it's about time they learnt and everybody can learn that translation isn't some sort of weird thing oh I've got to read the subtitles no I know people who won't watch film because it's subtitled I mean what the hell kind of nonsense is that and it's the same as I'd rather read it but anyway we have to get these people educated don't take note for a moment they can move our way and those publicists they may their boss their mandate may be to just not to worry about, don't bother the little translator, they did their work let's go they're looking for a hope too your author should be able to help you too get your author to treat you like a co-author I don't know what the author's like in this case but yeah, well the author can help you with that by making a noise yes but they are wary of it they have this thing about it yeah I'm a translator and I don't bite I don't put people off you know, perhaps I do but but it's this perception that people don't want to read translated works so the translated name is going to be tiny at the back and we're going to pretend that this was written in English I'm preoccupied I have no idea where that thinking comes from I've never met a bookstore customer who gave one any kind of a damn who wrote the book really they want to know if it's good it's one of the great myths of publishing short stories don't sell, novellas are hard maybe we should make a video all to next gear a mock horror movie of a reader discovering a book has been translated and all sorts of terrible things happen and the zombies start coming out we can send that to publishers realize how long it is the translators are coming you mean it was written in a foreign language when English was good enough for Jesus Christ read that question oh hey correct yes yes yes yes since then publishers were approaching book after book last time we translated the same also nothing other than but I enjoyed it and I don't consider like them to be better translators what they have to do also God will do himself in not even this writer about the not that sensitivity and the issues that there are especially regarding the Arab Spring so I think it's a little sad that there might be better translators out there and better writers out there will not take any problem because well you know about them because you have that language and you have access to their work so why don't you try and promote the other authors work to the publishers who are coming to you begging for you can take advantage of that sort of crack in the door that you've got and you can also recommend other translators if you know them so I would take that opportunity there are a lot of translators who do that kind of their free time but I read an Arabic blog that Marcia Qualey puts out and she's a translator she's also the only person I know who's writing thoroughly about their literature there's there's a book called Love German Books there's Translationista these are all translators driven a report does really on what's happening in this particular literature and a lot of it hasn't been made available to English readers in any way and there's a lot of favors you could be doing for people there's probably someone at this conference who would be only too happy there's someone who's looking for work we have the speed dating service out of all time it's an author intensive I've seen a sales report is there any sales rooms for booklets? does that make sense at all? ordinarily I'd say yeah but energy range that sounds fine but it also sounds like a real pain in the ass won't you fail for you drink? oh yeah here's the thing there is room but at least you have to find it in a bar honestly once there's some kind of social connection made and alcohol helps really there's room for almost anything I'd imagine well look at it this way I'll be downstairs have I mentioned that my problem with Jeff is his ulterior motives depending on who publishes you your works the secret is if you get the catalog that your book is in at the very back of the book is a list of who the sales reps are usually or at least what the companies are or what companies handling sales as Jeff said those who are distributed through the random house monolith call it that they're kept pretty remote but they exist they travel one night and get to know your local books walk into a bookstore and introduce yourself let me know what you said before we've had translators in our neighborhood we weren't carrying them but we didn't realize they lived in our neighborhood and as soon as we realized that we started stocking and making sure they had ignorance in our part not knowing who's around us just walking in and introducing yourself is huge we don't like either we're all fellow travelers if you introduce yourself friendly in a friendly way to your local booksellers they're not going to be offended the Glenn Close model of introducing yourself that usually doesn't go over well but you know from when I was a bookseller I still have a dozen customers who call me up asking for recommendation it's been a few years oh, I'm sorry this is going to be the last question we haven't really talked about online sales specifically when I talk to kind of like I feel like sort of semi lay people like people who are mostly readers but who sort of like follow what's going on in publishing and kind of read the kind of books that I'm interested in one of the things I hear us over and over is that you should get all of your family and friends to a period of time and this is like the most effective thing that you can do do you have any feedback about online sales generally? no our books sell really well on Amazon they're going to continue selling well Amazon's discovery for example is so heavily managed paid for there are not accidents on Amazon once upon a time for reasons I don't want to go into I had about 10 German speaking friends of mine bombard the German translation of the girl with golden parasol with fantastic reviews on Amazon DE well if nothing else it felt good to sort of feel like I kind of gained the system over and over I don't know I don't know that's the short answer it doesn't hurt as long probably as long as they're not obvious put-ups because sometimes I read reviews I'm like well this was the author you can see that yeah I don't like real last one it's the it's true nobody sheds out your boss but not my boss forget about that they can be great intermediaries they can be great intermediaries and have a disability worth more chuckle thanks for that thank you I was hoping you'd be able to provide we are going to have something awesome


So, after the introduction of the rocket propulsion, let us now look at the basic principle of operation of a reaction based engine or a jet engine, jet propulsion. This is applicable to both rockets as well as gas turbines, because the primary energy for propulsion is coming through the jet. Let us consider that we have a tube which is close at both ends like this. Let us say that the cross sectional area of this tube is A and it is kept in atmosphere. Let us say the atmospheric pressure is acting on all side of this tube P A is the atmospheric pressure. Now, let us say that we maintain a very high pressure P naught inside this. So, now if we look at this system, we have walls closed at both sides. Therefore, all the pressure forces are balanced. There are no unbalanced force in this. So, initially even though we have high pressure here, all the forces are balanced in this system. Let us now consider a scenario where we remove one side. Let us say this side is removed. So, at time t equal to 0, we remove one side. As soon as we remove this side, what we see is that now on this side of the system, P naught is greater than P A, because as I have said, this is a higher pressure. So, P naught is greater than P A. Therefore, the force acting in this direction is greater than the force acting in this direction. So, there is a net force acting in this direction. So, if we calculate or estimate that force, let us say that force is given by tau, then that force is equal to the pressure forces acting on this phase because of the pressure P naught, which is equal to P naught times A, where A is the cross sectional area and the pressure forces acting from outside, which is equal to P naught P A times A. Therefore, the net force is P naught minus P A times A. So, what we see is that we have a net force acting on this system towards the left. So, this force, if we do not do anything and if this system is kept on a fissionless surface, because of this force it will start to move. So, let us say in order to prevent this from moving, we exert a force in the opposite direction tau, which prevents it from moving. So, that is the reaction force. So, the instantaneous force thrust then is this reaction force given like this. And let us say that once we have removed this, there was a pressure differential on this side. So, the gases will start to escape because this is the high pressure here, there is low pressure here. So, gases start to escape from this system. Let us say the velocity of the existing gases is given by u e, exit velocity. Now, the gases start to move out. Then some of the mass is being removed. If we consider this as a fixed volume as the mass reduces, the density is reducing. Therefore, the pressure will start to drop. So, the P naught will now starts to drop. So, after some time the P naught starts decreasing. And then at sudden instant of time t, let us say the pressure is equal to p. Then at that instant of time, the thrust force is equal to p minus p a times a times p a times p a. So, the pressure has reduced to value p. Atmospheric pressure or ambient pressure p remains p a remains same. Therefore, the thrust has now reduced to this value. Now, if you keep on opening this, more air gas will pass out of the system, go out of the system, pressure will continue to decrease. Till at certain instant of time, the pressure becomes equal to p a, approaches p a. Now, when this pressure inside this tube becomes equal to the atmospheric pressure, then the thrust at that instant will tend to be 0. So, the production of thrust stops as soon as the pressure attains the equilibrium. So, as soon as the system reaches mechanical equilibrium, the pressure will be equal to the atmospheric pressure, the thrust production stops. So, then the vehicle will stop moving. So, how do we attain a state where the vehicle will be continuously moving or in order to do that, what we have to do is, we have to somehow maintain a higher pressure inside. So, if we can somehow maintain a high pressure inside and a lower pressure outside, then there will always be a pressure differential that will allow us to produce the thrust to have a sustained motion, because as soon as thrust goes to 0, we do not have sustained motion anymore. Now, how do we achieve that by let us say modifying this? What we do is, we add a secondary supply of let us say compressed air, which can maintain the pressure at p i. So, we have a secondary source of air with supplies air into this system even without the right hand side wall and it can maintain a high pressure here. Now, if that is possible as we maintain this pressure here as p 1, we can produce a thrust tau equal to p i minus p a times a. So, if the pressure inside the tube can be maintained at a constant value p i, then we will produce a thrust given by p i minus p a times a. This shows that if we know the pressure distribution inside the thruster, we can calculate the thrust. So, if we can get this pressure distribution, we can calculate the thrust produce. So, the easiest way is that if we know the pressure distribution, we can get the thrust, but that may not be possible always to know a priori what is going to be the pressure distribution. So, this is essentially the force balance. Force can be projected as rate of change of momentum. So, instead this is a force that is acting, if we look at the rate of change of momentum, then the thrust can be equated to rate of change of momentum. Now, in this case rate of change of momentum is m dot u e. The next thing we are going to derive that for the time being, let us just look at phenomenologically how this is correct. The momentum m is given as mass times velocity. So, the rate of change of momentum equal to m d v d t plus v d m d t. So, as long as we want to produce a constant thrust, no acceleration. If there are no acceleration, this term is 0. So, therefore, this is equal to m dot v, roughly equal to m dot u e. Here, this velocity I am talking about is the exit velocity, the velocity of the exhausting gases. So, this is a very crude way of talking about it, but just using the Newton's second law, we can show that rate of change of momentum for this system is equal to rate of mass flow rate multiplied by the exit velocity. So, here m dot is the mass flow rate and u e is the exit velocity. So, roughly speaking, we can say that the thrust produced essentially depends on the pressure differential, which can be represented as the product of mass flow rate and exit velocity. So, the primarily what we need to do is then maintain this high pressure. That is the primary function. So, with this background, as I said, this is applicable to any type of jet engine, whether it is a rocket or gas turbine, this is what is applicable. And that is why nozzle becomes a very important component, because this exit velocity u e is produced by the nozzle. So, during this course, we will discuss that as well. So, because phenomenologically, we have shown this relationship, now let us go into a more rigorous mathematical treatment of the same. So, next thing we discuss is the performance of rocket vehicles. So, next let us talk about performance of rocket vehicles. So, we will define the performance of rocket vehicles. So, we will define the performance parameters for the rockets. The first and foremost, what we want to know is the force, which is thrust. So, the first parameter we define and try to estimate is the thrust. So, we begin our study of performance by studying the rocket under static state condition. That is, the rocket is put on a test stand, like typically is done in LPSC in a test stand. It is not flying, it is on a test stand and we estimate the thrust from there. So, let us consider that we have a rocket, let us say, given like this, this is the rocket, which is on a thrust stand. And let us say that the thrust is equal to f t. Let us draw, first of all, the control volume here. So, let us say the control volume is the entire rocket from root to tip and consider a rectangular control volume. Then the force is acting on this rocket when it is on the thrust stand. The atmospheric pressure, let us say, is acting everywhere, which is given by P a, is the atmospheric pressure acting everywhere, including these surfaces. And then, out of this rocket, the hot jet, let us say, is coming out with a speed u e. Let us consider the exit area of this rocket nozzle is exit area is equal to a e. And let us further consider the pressure forces or the pressure of the exit jet at this plane is equal to P e. This is the exit pressure. Now, this is our configuration. We have a rocket on a thrust stand and let us say that the reaction force is R, which is the reaction force. Let us say our axis system is an initial frame given by x y. Now, in order to estimate the thrust, first let us make some assumptions for this problem. Let us consider that the process, the exit flow is steady at this point. It is one-dimensional only along the x direction as shown in this figure and it is uniform. These are the assumptions that we make regarding the exit flow. Now, from the Newton's third law of motion, which we have already discussed, the action is equal to the reaction, equal and opposite to the reaction. Therefore, the reaction force is equal and opposite to the thrust generated by this rocket. And this is what we want to estimate from given parameters. So, let us look at the momentum form, sorry, the control volume form of the momentum equation. Momentum equation, as we know, is essentially Newton's second law of motion applicable to a fluid flow. So, using Newton's second law of motion then, on this control volume, we can get the forces. So, first what does the Newton's laws of motion says? That the sum of forces on the control volume, where this is our control volume as I have just discussed, is equal to net rate of change. Change of momentum of the control volume. So, the sum of forces acting on the control volume are the external forces. External forces acting on the control volume is equal to net rate of change of momentum of the control volume. Now, the net rate of change of momentum can have two components. One is the instantaneous component, which is a time dependent term. Other is the convective term. Since we are considering steady flow, so the time dependent term will be 0. So, the only the convective term will remain. And the external forces acting here are the pressure forces and the reaction force. So, now, if we apply the forces and the moment balance, then what we see is that R is the reaction forces acting in this direction. Now, we consider all the everything positive in this direction, because momentum equation is a vector equation. So, we consider everything positive in the positive x direction. So, R is positive in this direction, then minus at this plane, the pressure acting is P e, which includes P a atmospheric pressure is included here. So, the pressure acting is P e times A e is the exit area. We have considered this is a rectangular control volume. Therefore, this area is also equal to this area. So, this area is also equal to P a and the atmospheric forces are pushing them on this side. So, the atmospheric pressure forces will be acting as P a times A e. So, this is the net sum of all the external forces acting on this control volume. And this is equal to net range of change of rate of change of momentum. And the momentum is changing because of the exist velocity u e and mass flow rate. The integral from if you look at that, it will come out to be equal to m dot u. So, in this case, it will be m dot u e. Actually this term in the integral form will be integral over the control surface rho v v dot n d a, right, where v dot n is the normal component of velocity normal to the control surface here and rho v dot n d a is our mass flow rate. So, that becomes mass flow rate times velocity. Therefore, the right hand side here is m dot u e, which is mass flow rate times the exit velocity. So, this is the basic thrust equation. Now, we can what we can do is, we can get an expression for r from this, which is equal to m dot u e plus P e minus P a times A e. So, that gives me the expression for the reaction force. Then Newton's laws of motion says that the thrust is equal and opposite to the reaction force. So, the thrust is given as r, which is equal to m dot u e plus P e minus P a times A e. So, the overall thrust or the net thrust produce is m dot u e, which is the momentum thrust and P e minus P a times A e. This is called pressure thrust. So, what we see is a thrust has two component. One is because of the flux of momentum out of the rocket, because this is the momentum going out of the rocket. So, this is the momentum flux of momentum going out of the rocket and work done by the pressure forces. So, this is the rate of change of momentum because of the pressure forces, which is P e minus P a times A e. Therefore, this pressure force term is now particularly for rocket application, rocket proportion is very important. Typically, for gas turbine applications, we neglect this term, but we cannot neglect that much so easily for rocket proportion, the pressure term. So, now, this gives us the expression for the total magnitude of thrust along the negative x direction that is in this direction. We can modify this expression a little bit and define a new velocity called equivalent velocity m dot u equivalent and the significance of this will become clearer when we talk about specific impulse. So, if we define the equivalent velocity like this, then the expression for equivalent velocity is equal to u e plus P e minus P a times A e divided by m dot. This is called equivalent exhaust velocity. So, this essentially is a term which includes the pressure forces also. So, we can express the thrust by just one expression that simplifies the calculations later on as we go along. We will see that that simplifies the calculation substantially. Now, from this expression, we can see that if the exit pressure is equal to the ambient pressure, then equivalent velocity is equal to the actual exit velocity. So, certain cases when the exit pressure is equal to the atmospheric pressure, the equivalent velocity is equal to the exit velocity. This is true if we have ideal expansion in the nozzle. So, this condition is applicable for ideal expansion in nozzle. Again, we will discuss this in detail later when we talk about the nozzle flow. So, ideal expansion actually is optimum expansion also called correct expansion. When the expansion is correct, then the pressure forces will be equal to that pressure, pressure at the exit will be equal to that atmospheric pressure and we get ideal expansion, velocity is equal to the equivalent velocity. But, if the expansion is non-ideal, in that case there will be a contribution from this term. So, let us look at the significance of this ideal expansion. First of all, typically what happens for nozzles or practical rocket applications, whether the exit pressure will be equal to the atmospheric pressure or less than the atmospheric pressure or greater than the atmospheric pressure. What is the typically the scenario? Typically, we will see exit pressure is less than atmospheric pressure. Now, there is a reason to it. So, this type of nozzle is called over expanded nozzle. There is a reason to it that when we talk about nozzles, we will see that if this condition is not maintained, if p is greater than p a, then there is a possibility of shock wave formation or expansion wave formation at the exit, whether for, but with this case we have shock wave formation at the exit. Now, across the shock wave, it is very easy to match the exit condition, but against the expansion wave, it will take few expansion waves crossing, only then we will match the exit condition. Therefore, this is typically the condition that is maintained. Now, another thing that we will discuss again and why we need to have this condition. So, typically what we see here then that p minus p a is 0 is less than 0. Therefore, this term is less than 0. Therefore, the equivalent velocity is less than the exit velocity. First of all, as I said that first of all there is a question of expansion wave. Secondly, even let us say somehow we maintain an isentropic condition and all, even then what should be the pressure to give us the optimum thrust that is what we should be our look out. So, let us look at various possibilities and see which one will give us the optimum thrust. So, let us look at first of all a nozzle wall like this and let us consider this as a flat plate. The nozzle wall is typically curved, but let us consider it as a flat plate. Now, external pressure is acting on this nozzle wall is the external pressure and internal pressure is also acting, but inside the nozzle the flow is expanding. So, there is a decrease in pressure in the flow direction. So, pressure may be higher here, it is decreasing reaching this point somewhere here. So, the internal pressure is giving like this. Now, this pressure of course, is greater than atmospheric pressure. Let us look at this pressure variation. This is greater than atmospheric pressure as we go along towards the exit the pressure is decreasing. For the moment let us assume that the pressure here is less than the atmospheric pressure. In that case somewhere in between it has crossed the atmospheric pressure. So, somewhere in between we had p equal to p a everywhere else p was not equal to p a. Now, with this scenario let us see this is our exit pressure p e. If p e is less than p a which is this condition here which is represented here is this condition. Then of course, this is called an over expanded nozzle. Another scenario can be that our nozzle is actually truncated before it reaches this condition. So, let us say nozzle is truncated here. Then in this case as we can see at this plane p is greater than p a. Therefore, the expansion is still not complete up to the exit pressure. So, that case is called and under expanded nozzle. Let us look back at this scenario. If our at this point the pressure is getting equal to the atmospheric pressure. Therefore, the area ratio available here is our critical area ratio for which the expansion is ideal. So, let us say that the area for this exit area is equal to a c ideal area. Once again as I am saying that we will discuss the nozzle flow in detail later that we will discuss this things again. So, a c is the area which provides us the ideal expansion. Then if I look at this case the first scenario where p is less than p a. We see that the exit area is greater than this critical area. So, for over expanded nozzle the exit area is greater than the critical area because of that and p e by minus p a is less than 0. So, looking at our thrust equation then we can clearly see that the thrust produced by an under expanded nozzle is less than the critical or the optimum thrust. So, that is a straight forward thing. On the other hand so this is straight forward we should agree to this. But now let us look back here when p e is greater than p a. Then according to this expression the thrust should be more. Now let us look back at this diagram and consider this case where the nozzle was truncated here. In that case what is happening now that for an under expanded nozzle what we have is p e is greater than p a as shown in this yellow line. So, p e is greater than p a now that has been truncated before it has reached the ideal expansion. Therefore, from this figure only we see that a e is less than a c. So, the exit area is less than the critical area. Now the velocity depends on the exit area. For the constant mass flow rate if you have larger area the velocity will be less, but here talking about supersonic flow. So, that will be other way round. So, in the smaller area will have a lower velocity larger area will have a higher velocity. So, because the once again let me refresh in the mass flow rate is constant then for a given flow typically when the area is larger velocity is lower when the area is lower velocity is larger. But in this case when if you look at this condition here the flow was expanding. So, for subsonic flow what I said was correct, but here the flow is expanding because it is supersonic flow and the expansion grows as we move towards away from the initial point. So, there is a diverging area and the expansion grows in the diverging side. So, therefore the velocity increases or there is acceleration in the increasing area side. So, therefore looking back back at this condition when the exit area is less than the critical area the exit velocity is less than the critical exit velocity. And because of that the overall thrust which is the combination of this and this even if this is positive this thing is decreasing the exit velocity is going down and that makes the thrust in this case less than the critical thrust. So, what it shows is that for the ideal expansion the thrust is maximum on both sides of it the thrust will reduce. However the reduction in thrust for this case is because of lower exit velocity. So, because the expansion is not complete whereas for this case it is the other way round it is because of the decrease in pressure. So, in a nutshell what we have shown here is that for the ideal expansion the thrust produces maximum and we have got the thrust equation. Once again I would like to point out here that few lectures down the line we will take up the nozzle flow in detail and we will discuss all these things in detail there again. Now one point that from the practical application point of view is very important that why we want to have this because a rocket is launched from say from ground and has to go to very large altitude. The pressure is very high on the ground and at a very high altitude the pressure is very low. So, the pressure has to vary from the launching point up to the intended final location and the pressure is decreasing. Now if the pressure is decreasing then if the exit pressure is less than atmospheric pressure at certain point in between initially we will start off probably with a higher pressure for certain point in between this pressure actually this pressure will fall down drastically. Then we can get into a condition where P e becomes greater than P e and after that the pressure it is always greater because the pressure is decreasing here. So, if we start our design with an under expansion then for a long duration of operation it is operating under expansion condition and that will reduce the thrust substantially. But if we design with an over expansion condition we design with a higher P e now as we go up P e is decreasing at one point of time we actually hit the ideal condition and then little bit of let us say over under expansion. So, but where a substantial period of time is a possibility of having ideal expansion as well therefore, overall thrust will be more because the thrust essentially is from low to high and then coming down whereas, here it is monotonically coming down. So, therefore, the overall thrust is more in this case. So, that is why typically as I said that under over expansion is something that is preferred for practical applications. Now, so one of the performance parameters we have discussed is the thrust. Let us look at some other performance parameters which are important for rocket propulsion and perhaps the most widely used parameter is the specific impulse. When we compare various rockets we actually talk in terms of specific impulse. So, this is a very important performance parameter. This parameter is defined as I S P is the thrust produced per unit weight of propellant consumed. So, the thrust per unit mass flow rate of propellant multiplied by the acceleration due to gravity that is the definition of specific impulse. So, if we consider thrust as f t then this is equal to f t upon m dot which is the mass flow rate times G e which is the acceleration due to gravity. What is the unit of the specific impulse? Seconds. So, here G e is our acceleration due to gravity at sea level because we need some reference point. So, is acceleration due to gravity at sea level. Typical value of G is 9.8 meter per second square. So, now if we combine this with the expression for the equivalent velocity and the thrust then in terms of the equivalent velocity the thrust is written as m dot u equivalent.   So, equivalent velocity divided by acceleration due to gravity that is the definition of specific impulse. We will define some other parameters also. One is total impulse also sometimes called just impulse which is given as I t divided by which is the overall thrust integrated over the period of time. So, this t is the flight time f is the thrust at a instantaneous thrust because many times thrust may not be constant and this is the time increment. So, this is equal to then thrust from this equation is I S P times rate of change of weight. So, we can write it here as I S P m dot G e d t that is the total impulse. Now, another performance parameter is specific propellant consumption. This actually is reciprocal of I S P. So, specific propellant consumption is given as 1 upon 1 by I S P. So, it essentially is the measure of how much weight is written as required to produce unit thrust. So, that is w dot by f t which is m dot G e by f t. So, the unit of specific propellant consumption is per second. So, this is essentially the measure of how much weight of fuel will be required to produce per unit thrust. Some other parameters which are very important as far as the performance of rockets is concerned when we talk about vehicle dynamics they will become apparent are the mass ratios. So, let us define the mass ratios as well right now. First of all the overall mass ratio M R. M R is the ratio of final mass after the rocket operation and the initial mass of the vehicle. So, M F by M naught where this is the final mass of the vehicle this is the initial mass of the vehicle. Now, when the vehicle is under operation what changes happens. So, therefore, this is after the rocket operation which is essentially excluding the propellant mass. So, the mass ratio is given by M F by M naught which is a very important design parameter. Typically this mass ratio applies to single stage and multi stage rock vehicles both. For multi stage vehicles this for single stage vehicle for multi stage vehicle let us say with n stages every stage will have its own mass ratio. So, first of all we have an overall mass ratio given by M R naught which is the overall mass ratio for the entire vehicle which is nothing but product of individual mass ratios where M R i equal to M R i. So, total mass ratio of ith stage total number of stages is n every stage has a mass ratio M R i. So, overall mass ratio is. So, let us see that why that is true take a step and show that this is correct. Let us say that we have n stages initial mass is M naught let us say the final mass is the payload mass let us say M L. Then after burning everything let us say let me put it as M F this is the final mass. So, overall mass ratio is the final mass divided by initial mass and for a particular stage M R i this is the initial mass for that stage and final mass for that stage only right initial mass M naught M naught i. Now, for the first stage for the first stage the initial mass is actually M naught the overall mass and the final mass is what remains after the burn out which is M F 1 right. Now, this M F 1 now becomes the initial mass for the next stage. So, M F 1 and the final mass is M F 2. So, this term here is the mass ratio of the first stage this term here is the mass ratio for the second stage and so on till we get to the last stage. So, the initial mass for the last stage is the final mass for the last but one stage and then final mass which is just M F. So, this term here is M R M right. So, what we see here then is M R 1 times M R 2 times M R 3 etcetera etcetera. So, M R 1 times M R 2 times M R 3 etcetera up to M R M is equal to M R M R M R M R M R M R M R M R M R M R M R M not overall ratio right because that is what we started from. So, overall mass ratio is given like this. So, we see that the overall mass ratio is the product of independent stage mass ratios that is why M R naught is product of i equal to 1 to n M R i. So, therefore, the overall mass ratio can prove to be the product of individual mass ratios. Now, one more thing would like to point out here is let us say the final mass here is M F initial mass was M naught the difference of these two then is what the propellant mass because that is what has been used. So, we can define the propellant mass here now M P which is the propellant mass equal to M naught minus M F right. Now, this M F is the final mass that includes the guidance devices the navigation gear payload tanks structure engine hardware everything is the final mass except the propellant everything else remains. Now, once we have defined the propellant mass then we can define another parameter which is called propellant mass fraction given by zeta this actually is the percentage of propellant mass in a given vehicle. So, it is defined as propellant mass divided by the overall mass. So, as you can see is the percentage of propellant mass in the given vehicle defined like this. So, we can take a step further write this as M naught minus M F by M naught and this is equal to 1 minus M F by M naught and what is M F by M naught is the mass ratio overall mass ratio. So, this is equal to 1 minus M R. So, zeta equal to 1 minus M R therefore, we can also write you can bring M R to this side zeta to this side that M R equal to 1 minus zeta. So, the propellant mass fraction is 1 minus overall mass ratio overall mass ratio is 1 minus propellant mass ratio.


Good afternoon foundation staff. This is level 4 researcher Theron Sherman and today's briefing is well Interesting first of all this document contains adult themes So those of you in the foundation junior academy should turn this briefing off unless you have a superior officer's permission Second by order of the overseer council the following file has been locked due to repeated malicious External and internal attempts to make edits to the documentation the purpose of these attacks are not currently known proceed with caution third I Swear to our long and merciful lord the longest boy scp 5320 that if I hear even one of you utter the word Nice, I will personally email you a jpeg of scp 096 his face Okay Let's proceed Item number scp 6969 Object class Ketter Risk and disruption classes are pending and the document is level 5 classified special containment procedures Due to the inherent nature of the anomalies activation conditions within human biology scp 6969 cannot be contained at this time Efforts are directed towards nullifying the thaumaturgical activation of scp 6969 on a global scale via application of the thaumaturgical intercalator termination string Regardless as scp 6969 effects are self-censoring and global neutralation would be immensely costly This is considered a low priority Access to this file is restricted to individuals with level 5 6969 clearance to prevent panic amongst wider foundation personnel Due to the large amount of individuals attempting to access this file for unknown reasons Editing the file has been locked and requires o5 or research lead credentials description scp 6969 is the designation for a thaumaturgical Biological process which occurs during ejaculation When a human being attempts to discharge whether during the process of intercourse or more commonly not a series of internal thaumaturgical processes occur within the individuals genitalia affecting the entire body Over the duration of approximately two seconds the affected subject will enter and experience a causal time loop Repeatedly beginning at the moment of ejaculation and lasting a short period of time No changes to the subject's physiology are preserved between time loops safe for two factors One the activity of the nervous system and two the sperm's genetic composition were applicable Footnote of note the genetic composition of the sperm ejaculated changes state before and after scp 6969 suggesting the anomaly modifies it Upon conclusion of an unknown number of repetitions the causal time loop ceases and a secondary thaumaturgic effect activates The secondary effect resets the nervous system to the state It was when the time loop began allowing for the seamless transition between pre and post-orealism states by resetting memory following this anomalous activity relating to scp 6969 ceases Research suggests that affected subjects may experience a subjective time of anywhere from 16 days to roughly 73 quintillion years every ejaculation Addendum 1 testing log subject designation D652589 Subject sex male testing location specialized testing chamber zeta 2841 procedure a counter spell on the secondary thaumaturgic process was activated on D652589 The subject was instructed to masturbate which was performed without complication result Immediate liquefaction of the subject's nervous system analysis of subjects adaculate confirm changes to genetic material subject designation D8007135 Subject sex female testing location specialized testing chamber zeta 2841 procedure a specialized thaumaturgic spell is placed upon D8007135 Which modifies the scp 6969 process allowing for the entire body to be preserved between time loops Subject was informed and consented to the experiment prior and was instructed to masturbate result subject immediately disintegrates subject designation D05370 and D908707 Subject sex male and female testing location specialized testing chamber zeta 2841 procedure Subjects were previously married and were reported to possess quote unresolved sexual tension in D class-holding areas Both were informed of the nature of the experiment and begrudgingly agreed D05370 was thaumaturgically modified to retain memories of their experience during scp 6969 D908707 was not modified both were non-invasively recorded during the process result D05370 became comatose and D908707 became immensely distressed and uncooperative latter amnesicized Formers in medical wing pending termination order At this point all testing was halted by order of the ethics committee Addendum 2 note from the head researcher When I began working on scp 6969 I initially tackled it with the idea that it was a malicious force I was working against I think in one way or another We all believe that this anomaly was evil or created by something evil to do evil upon us How many anomalies were the result of eldritch horrors? Surely this must be one of them, but as I stand here before my research and the evidence piles on my desk I have to conclude that the theme we're seeing isn't a malicious force It's a natural one The process of evolution is one which is cobbled together from random happenstance Jeans change at complete random and anything which is potentially beneficial or at least not harmful gets passed down While those which are harmful get killed off. It's brutal and messy, but it works just barely and The theory goes scp 6969 is the result of just one of those many many evolutionary Happy little accidents, which may help pass on some jeans scp 6969 as we know changes the genetic material of the sperm released during ejaculation From what we can tell it also prunes a significant amount of unhealthy specimens and increases sperm count in general All signs point to it having simply evolved over the course of our species lifespans Creating vastly improved genetic material in a tiny time span When scp 6969 first came into existence There may have been a significant amount of casualties by people who experienced it without the secondary effects Until one person evolved the ability to reset the nervous system in scp 6969 Simultaneously any descendants of theirs not up to par were killed off in the process of natural selection This is perhaps one hypothesis of a colleague of mine, which I'm too afraid to admit may be true From the complexity of scp 6969 We can place the approximate period from where it evolved and it appears as though the time corresponds directly with the development of higher Intelligence and human species as if to make matters worse the hypothesis goes on to state that without scp 6969 The genetic makeup of humans may become significantly more unstable resulting in very high birth defect rates and fatal mutations I cannot fathom a world of such suffering where we conceived Where we were conceived in such brutal conditions made to endure such horrors and die an eventual meaningless death sex is a joke and We're the punchline Following this head researcher Nathan Brown was disciplined for adding unprofessional personal anecdotes to official scp files All right staff that ends today's broadcast use your foundation encrypted YouTube account to like comment and subscribe Hit the bell and support our broadcast at patreon.com site 42 and All right, we all get one nice