There you go. Good morning and welcome to this week's edition of Encompass Live. I am your host, Krista Porter, here at the Nebraska Library Commission. Encompass Live is the commission's weekly webinar series where we cover a variety of topics that may be of interest to libraries. We broadcast the show live every Wednesday morning at 10 a.m. Central Time, but if you're unable to join us on Wednesdays, that's fine. We do record the show as we are doing today and it will be posted to our website for you to watch later at your convenience. Both our live show and our recordings are free and open to anyone to watch. So please do share with your friends, family, neighbors, colleagues, anyone you think but be interested in any of the topics we have on the show. For those of you not from Nebraska, the Nebraska Library Commission is the state agency for libraries in Nebraska. It would be similar to your state library, for example. So we provide services and training and resources to all types of libraries in the state. So you will find shows on Encompass Live for all types of libraries, public academic, K-12, corrections, museums, archives, anything and everything. Another criteria is that it's something to do with libraries. We, something cool libraries are doing, something we think they could be doing, book reviews, interviews, many training sessions, demos of services and products, all sorts of things. Sometimes we have Nebraska Library Commission staff that come on the show to talk about services and programs and things we're offering to that through the commission, but we also bring in guest speakers as we have this morning. So we have a trio of library directors from here in Nebraska. Jessica Chamberlain from our North Fork Public Library. Good morning, Jessica. Laura England-Biggs from our Keen Memorial Library in Fremont, Nebraska. Good morning, Laura. And Sky Siri from our North Platt Public Library. And they're going to talk about something that possibly some of you have encountered in your libraries or you've heard about happening, these first amendment audits, and how you can deal with that in your library. So I will hand it over to you all to tell us all about it. Who's starting. Oh gosh, we never really planned that, did we? You're running this. I'll take the first one. For those of you thinking to yourself, what is a first amendment audit? Normally it's conducted by a small group of people, one or two. They, they come to record their interactions with government officials, whether that's their city or town hall, maybe a police department, or their library. To ensure that their first amendment right to record in public is preserved. They generally select that facility, film the encounter, and if nothing happens, no one tries to stop them from filming, then you pass. If someone tries to stop them from filming, then you fail the audit and that's when it usually turns up on YouTube. So, I have a first question now already. So interestingly enough, they don't promote and share all the ones that are passing and say, here are the good places. Not generally, not in our experience. Interesting. And, and just, just to kind of start off some of the discussion please do like Krista did if you have a question along the way please go ahead and jump in. We don't want to, to come at you saying we know all the answers, we know exactly what you should do and how you should behave. We want to make this an opportunity to think about it, to learn about it, and then decide, you know, what's right for your library for your community, how are you going to respond. And so we're just kind of giving you lots of information to think about looking at it from some different angles with some different libraries have done other experiences. So keep that in mind, we certainly do not have all the answers in our, you know, we're not here to say this is how you should do it. So it's good to have a lot of information so you can be prepared. And instead of instead of blindsided. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what we're hoping that people just take a minute to think about it and kind of know what plan, you know, for when it does happen or if it does happen. And this is like anything you do in the library that you have your policies and your rules and regulations that you think of what could ever happen what we need to respond to. Let's have it in figured out ahead of time. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead and continue. It's like we lost Laura for a second sky. Do you want to. Sure. Well, to continue on with that thought of the videos being posted online something. The reason you see the. I guess the bad videos or those videos that go viral with the First Amendment audits is because they want the views. So I think we talk about this a little bit later maybe in the, in the slideshow but that's, they monetize these videos, and that's how they make money so by exposing libraries to these and showing these bad experiences. They garner views and therefore money. So that's something to keep in mind on why they don't post those First Amendment audits that pass, per se. You would really watch that. Correct. Correct. Well, I mean, I guess depends on your their reason for doing this is it to show here are the good places to make sure you support these places as opposed to the ones that aren't. Or is it just for attention. Right. And so First Amendment audit versus video harassment. This is something that we've talked about considerably in our library. And we had a look at our policies. We had a look at video harassment them coming in, where in fact we take video we take photos of events that go on in our library. So we had to change our policies to encompass everybody, and not just our own perspective in library land. But we can advance the slides without email from Laura said she's frozen her screens frozen so I suggested that she log off and back in again. Does either of you have the slides that you could do instead until she can get back in. We can wing it. And I can, if you want, we could jump to the video, the videos that I have to share. And we could talk about that while we wait for Laura to come back in. Sure, sure. Not a problem. I can. If you've got things up on your sky can give you presenter than Jessica. Yeah, great. I'm going to change you to presenting. So did we want to talk about this video harassment or the slide that's up is about that. Yeah, just keep keep in mind that, you know, First Amendment audits is their term, whether these really are First Amendment audits and and the whole idea of passing if that's actually good. That's all from the videos. You know, the video errors point of reference. So realize that that is their framing of the language and another way to frame the languages they're coming in and harassing library staff. They're coming in and just filming events and doing nice things that they're coming in with an intent to cause a scene. So whether you call it a First Amendment audit in their language or you call it video harassment in a, you know, in another way of looking at it. That's just to get that point of view out there. Yeah. And this isn't something only happening in libraries to this isn't a library specific issue. This is a, this is a public spaces issue. Yeah, public spaces government buildings, anything like that. They're not the only ones, but that's helpful or not but yeah. Laura says she has to reboot her her oh it's her actual computer froze up. She's rebooting, she couldn't even log off of the good webinar she's going to have to reboot her computer and get back in. No problem. Let me see. Jessica, I'm going to make you presenter now. So you should see that pop up. All right. And you should be able to just okay cool there's your desktop I see. Okay. If you have multiple screens you can choose which screen it. I was waiting for that option and I didn't see that option come up. No, I didn't see that option coming up. So I'm going to go to the screen sharing, and there should be a show screen but little menu where you can open up. Now do you see YouTube. Yes. Okay. So our library here in Norfolk had an audit last year. And we had just barely started talking about what this is. We had not done any staff training. Look at this. This is a thing that happens.  But so here is a little video of our lovely library and we'll show just a big, we're not going to show the whole thing but just a little bit of what this person did. So this is just one example of what it could look like. In our library. And in our example. The auditor did not speak at all was completely non verbal so we did not know what he was doing we did not know really what was happening. This is not part of the public library here may help you up front. This is our staff in the area. It's my melodious voice there. So if you find a book or a resource. And I would have to add the computer helping someone else. But I'm happy to help us if you'd like. To see he continues to just not say anything. He was also completely covered. It was May it was pretty warm out. He was wearing a parka, a face mask.  So we weren't really sure what, you know, what he was doing. What was going on. Yeah. Yeah, he does eventually leave the staff area. Let's go ahead and stop. Have I stopped sharing my screen. I'm sorry. Yeah. So, you know, that was, it was unusual in a few ways that he didn't speak. He was not dressed for the weather. And then he did violate a lot of First Amendment auditors will not violate that staff only barrier. He did. He also walked through some offices and another part of the building we found out later. So, but after this, he went around outside the building and then later had an encounter with the police which is what he was. We assume really looking for and what he really wanted. So, because we were, as you can see, nothing but kind, nothing but helpful. And so also on his YouTube channel, this one does not have very many views compared to some of his others because there is no real confrontation. And what he does highlight in his video is his interaction with police and the fact that he doesn't speak to them. So, that's one way it can look. Let's see, let me, we have another one that I will show here. Okay. And this is in a Colorado, I think, and this is just a different kind of interaction. It's a whole team of people. They're very obvious about what they're doing. And we'll watch just a few minutes of how that goes. We're at the Aurora Public Library. And I got a MLH and details with me today. Yeah, I forgot my SD card. I know it wasn't in my camera. So, I left these guys out in the cold. Go get it. So, you can see with them, they're very obvious about what they're doing, complete opposite of what happened to us. It's very clear what they're doing. They're very straightforward about their process. Hi. How are you? Good. How are you doing? Good. What's your video report? Oh, just taking some video. Okay. Oh, gosh. Nice. Are you about the ad there? You're so far so good. Okay.  You know, when like somebody has a beard in a shave or something like that. Yeah. It's kind of wants our attention. That's the youth services area. That's the youth services area. Yeah. So, that's the determinant area. So, I'm just letting you know where you're headed. Okay. Why would you tell me that? Because you're filming. Okay. You're filming minus without a concern. Oh, is there a log inside? So, imagine if you know what they were doing, that's what I said. Okay. Well, I mean, I'm not trying to record kids, but I mean, if they're inadvertently in the camera. Okay. I can do about that. Just checking to see if you knew that. I'll just try to make sure. Yeah, I got you. That's not against the law. Miners without their parents consent. Yes, it is. No, it's not. I'm not going to worry about you. I'm just trying to. I'm just trying to make sure that they're not doing that. So we won't show any more of this one, but I like showing this because you see a very well meaning. Security officer trying to, you know, gently request that they not do that. He isn't quite sure about the law. He does think it's not allowed. And so this is one of the things that I think auditors really love to capture when, when you're not sure. Or when you are sure and they want to counteract what you're saying. And then they turn it into this big, you know, really just conflict. That's what they use to spark the conflict and try to get you on camera, you know, doing whatever, but. So that. We thought that was an interesting video from that perspective. And it was really good to show, they showed the other camera people as well. So you kind of get an idea of what that looks like. It can be as simple as recording with a phone. Or in some cases through our research, people come in with the actual cameras and lights and. Like a news crew kind of looking thing. Yeah. Yeah. So. It's good to be prepared. It could be just a simple cell phone, but. It make them in. Full board too. So. Yeah. So. Yeah, it's interesting the difference between those, like, I don't know what. The first person at your library, Jessica was expecting when they just come in all silent and. And totally hiding everything about themselves. That's a scary situation. I would think. Yeah. I mean, you know, the staff not knowing what's going on in this person, just standing there staring at them. And not answering any, do you need help? Can I help you? What do you need? I can help you find a book with. What are you here for? What can we do for you? Yeah, it wasn't. And I think that's why it's, it's helpful to just kind of realize the variety of ways in which it might show itself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When Laura gets back with our slides, some of our slides.  You're still muted on your side. Lord, do you want to. Do the slides or. Yes, I can try it again. Oh, sorry. There's, yeah. Going to the webcam off. Okay. All right. Hold on a sec. Yeah. I'm going to present your control again for your slides.  It looks like. Yes. Yeah. I think where we left off, we were talking about. I don't know if you folks talked about the video harassment term versus first amendment audit. Yeah. Okay. That's why it stayed up for a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of thoughts on. So how do you respond? It's generally uncomfortable. It can be disruptive, but you can prepare yourself. And then you'll find some of the tips we found. And you'll find the links at the bottom of these slides of where we found some of these resources. You can educate employees about what a first amendment audit video harassment is. Most importantly, don't overreact. That's what they want. Go through and mark your non public forums, like your staff areas. And then you'll find some of the rules about harassment are. And as always.  The law where you are. We are not lawyers. We don't play one on TV. Yeah. And I will mention Laura mentioned the slides and the links there. For everyone afterwards when we have the recording up available for this, we will have the slides as well for you. So if you're interested in that, you can find the links there. You'll have these links afterwards with the archive recording. Absolutely. So then we go to Norfolk's audit. Sounds like you did that. The other audit. You did that. Very good. Does anybody else want to talk? Otherwise I can keep going. I don't care. Why don't you keep going, Laura? Okay. Okay. So the public forum like a public square, the public sidewalk. And facilities that are open to the public for particular uses or purposes, like. A library or a courthouse. And did you flip over? The facilities like a library. They're considered to be limited public forums. Or non-public forums. So that the public doesn't have free reign to go wherever they are. The agency is only obligated to allow the first amendment activities. Where. That piece of the facility is open to the public. Consistent with the. This is talking federal law. I believe so. Now that you've said that I'm not a hundred percent sure. I will look that up. I feel like it's federal. So a lot of what we're going to talk about is setting policies. How do you set a good policy to, to deal with. Any kind of disruption, but especially these kinds of. Auditors harassers, whatever you want to call them. They need to be carefully examined. You know, you want to embody the principles expressed in the library bill of rights, as well as any state and federal. Statutes. When you are creating those policies, we recommend you cite whatever. Statute or ordinance gives you the authority. To do what you're saying you're going to do or not do. In general, look at your use. In general, look at your usage policies. And again, get an opinion from your. Local attorney. I'd like to add whenever we're setting policies that. Are of this kind of nature. I also think, what am I asking of my staff? What am I asking the frontline people who are going to be the ones who deal with this. How hard. You know, of a task in my setting for them. You know, and sometimes we have to do the hard things and there's just no choice about it, but sometimes there are more gentle or easier ways to deal with things that just make life for your frontline staff a little bit easier. So when you're doing these things, I would definitely recommend that you involve your frontline staff in these discussions. See what it is that, you know, they, you know. You know, you know, whatever it is that you're going to end up asking them to do, make sure that they have the tools to do it in a way that is not. Too scary. Anytime we have to confront a patron about any kind of behavior issue or, you know, anything, it's always uncomfortable. You know, very few of us enjoy that. But definitely involve them in that discussion of what you're going to be asking of them. And so that they understand why. I would agree with that 100%. And we happen at North Platt. We happen to talk about the First Amendment audit in a staff meeting at the same time that we were looking at our policies. And so it really worked out well. And we had a lot of really good discussion with all of the staff involved. And so that's where we came up with our. Revision. Absolutely. I did do a quick look up because you had the office of intellectual freedom link down there at the bottom of that previous slide, Laura. About what the laws and it is based on, it's according to the Supreme court. Thank you. That is a limited public form. So it is. That's a federal. That's what we're talking about. And there are case study. If that link actually goes to the office of intellectual freedom on the LA website. And it does talk site actually specific cases, which is awesome. Very good. Thank you so much, Krista. I hope that sakes me some time today. Let's see. Next up we want to talk about what policies we set sky kind of led us into that. Staff only areas, label them and both caveat there that I found as I was researching is don't bring someone other than staff into that area. area as well. In most of our cases, that's not going to be a big deal. I mean, there's nothing going on in my office that's that interesting. But if you make an exception for somebody, you have to probably do it for everybody. And video policies. I think Sky, you made some changes to yours. We did because previously our policy said no video recording in the library, which was wrong. We take video as staff to put on our social media or, you know, just for marketing purposes. And clearly, I mean, in a public forum, there is a right to record. So. And the question that that that that one security guard was mentioning about videotaping minors in a public space. The whole key is the whole public space. It does that that kind of I mean, it may seem like and feel like an ethical thing to don't videotape minors, even if they're out in public because come on, don't be the bad guy. But legally, the whole public space thing kind of overrules the fact that who are the people that you're taping. Right. To play devil's advocate and kind of piggyback on that, Krista, when one of the videos that I watched, that's exactly the argument that the recorder uses. He says, you know, I go watch my nephew's soccer game, and I record the soccer game. And no one ever has a problem with that. So how is this different? And I think that's where the gray area and the confusion comes in, because if we are a limited public forum, and we are allowed to set rules about who and when and where you can do certain things. That's to me what muddies the water and makes it hard to be super clear about, you know, this is not black and white. And I think that the recorders take advantage of that gray area to say, you know, even if it's your policy, it's not the law. Yeah. So I think that just adds it's certainly another layer to it. And yeah. Well, and additionally, we're also very protective of our patrons privacy. And so that's a big factor into that, because we want to make sure that everybody feels safe in a library and everybody's privacy is protected. And how can we do that if somebody's recording? And what are they going to do with that? Yeah. Yeah. It feels like a huge violation of your own personal privacy, even though the law may not see it that way. It certainly feels that way. And I think our patrons feel it that way as well. I think what a lot of libraries do is what I've done with the reporters from the local paper is I say, you know, I'd really appreciate it if you could keep people out if you're going to take their picture, get their permission just to be polite. But I don't tell them they can't. Just let them know, hey, we're over here recording doing this, this, you know, thing. You may or may not be in the background if you would not like to be. Why don't you move over there and we'll be done in a few minutes. Yeah. And I've heard of libraries using colored lanyards to denote like children in programs who parents don't want them in images. So if you see a red lanyard around their neck, move the picture over a bit. That kind of thing, because there are some reasons not to, but it's a separate issue. Anyway, I digress. Again, get an opinion from your attorney. Always. Nebraska Statute. Todd Schlechte from Southeast Library System. He's the assistant director. He shared this information with us that the library may exclude folks from the board, may exclude folks from the library and reading rooms if they are willfully violating or refusing to comply with rules and regulations established for the government thereof. The library. That's our revised statute 51-212. And it refers back to statute number 51-211. So if you need the statute in Nebraska for what gives you the right to make these rules, there you have it. Yeah. And this is something that a lot of people like that, you know, following the statutes, that's the law. That's our Nebraska law. I have this discussion with people of the time in libraries, mainly people not in the library, not understanding that we in Nebraska do have laws that regulate how libraries are run. Check your state if you're not in Nebraska to see what you have. And they are required to be followed. Nobody, you know, so if the library board does come up with statutes policies, yes, you do have to follow them. No, there's no law that says you can or can't do these things, but there are library policies and this law says that you have to follow the policies. Otherwise, you can be removed from the premises. And we have an example of a policy right here that refers you to the statute. Perfect. Basically, the Stromsburg Public Library in Stromsburg, Nebraska, and I have their permission to share this, says that no conduct interfering with or discouraging the public's use of the library is permitted. Basically, be nice. Don't upset other people. And this is what gives us the right to do that. So it's a very succinct policy. But I think it's easy to adapt to almost any setting as long as you have the right statute cited. Absolutely. I did a little comparison of a public library of Cincinnati and Hamilton County's video policy in 2004. This is how long it was. And it was generally permitted if it was for the media, student projects or personal use. But you may not video without express permission of the patrons. And you cannot do commercial without permission from the library director. So 2004 jumps to 2022. They say it's generally permitted. And commercial still has to be approved by the director, but they dropped out the part about getting people's permission. They do ask you not to disturb customers or invade their personal space. But they really simplified their, their statement, I think, because of this issue. I don't know that for sure. But that's my guess. Well, this is something that has come up since 2004. Yeah. Yes. And answering that commercial purposes, I think, I don't know, Sky, you maybe mentioned, or who mentioned the monetization of the videos on YouTube? Right. That's, that's making money off of those views and those things. I wonder if that would fall under that and if someone could ask someone, Oh, are you going I mean, this would be the full question. Are you planning on posting this to YouTube and monetizing it? That's commercial use. No, you just well, I think you could ask them that, but you might be asking also for a fight. True, true, true. It depends on what you want to engage with them. Or is it one of those things you just want them to do their thing and get out? Yeah, I think the way that your staff handle Jessica is, is, you know, don't make a scene. If they're not doing anything illegal, being in that staff area is a little off because labeled staff not public right off the bat, they're in a area that doesn't even meet their criteria for wanting to show this is a weekend video in public spaces. Well, this isn't the public space anymore. And that leads beautifully into our next slide. I just love this. This is how North Carolina has designated some of their staff areas. And I will say it has come in handy. We have not had a First Amendment audit. But simply labeling the staff areas has come in handy in other situations. So I am really glad that we took the time to do this. All of our doors, whether it's going out to our garage, into our staff area, all the spaces are clearly labeled now. Like you may just have patrons that don't realize where they can and can't go or get lost or whatever.  Here in Fremont, we did it low tech because we're in a temporary space. We just laminated some sheets of paper and used the blue tack and kind of went that way. We did have an incident this week, Monday night, where someone followed staff into one of these areas and it was a little creepy, but they weren't filming. They just they were asked to leave quite forcefully and they finally complied. So the sign doesn't do everything for you, but it gives you protection against the videographers in theory. Earlier, we talked about staff training. I haven't found a lot of formal training out there. A lot of it is just finding articles. And again, you'll get access to these. You don't have to scribble. Utah local government's trust has a 40 minute video that's really good. We really, the three of us have recommended talking about it and the ever loving role playing that everyone just adores. I have a staff member. Oh, go ahead, Jessica.  So when we had our discussion about this, I had a staff member who said, I think we should use this as a marketing tool.  I'm going to show them our creation station. I'm going to show them this and I'm going to show them that she's like, they're going to. Yeah, it'll derail them. But then hopefully get the word out about the cool things that we're doing and what we have to offer and I love that. Absolutely love that approach. Along with Laura's comment on role playing, I know not all staff enjoy the role playing. Sometimes what my staff has told me is some of them really appreciate like some canned phrases, or some example phrases like, here's an example of a thing you could say. And, and just providing a couple of different, you know, you could go with this approach, you could go with this approach, but giving some actual sample sentences so that they can find what feels good to them and what feels natural, you know, that they're not required to follow a script. But if they're not sure what to say, they have something they can fall back on and say, okay, here's here's the thing that I know I could say that I've had a chance to think about in practice. And so now I've got it ready. I'm gonna say my thing. Absolutely. My staff loves that as well. Just giving them some key phrases they can make their own. Yeah. Yeah. And if they don't use them and use their own language, that's great too.  So that's another option. We don't have a few questions that have come in. I want to jump to those for a second here before because some did relate to slides you already gone have done. So simply about I'm gonna jump down to this one. It's about the one you just did about the Stromsburgs policy. Question is would it be prudent to post that policy in a public area so that frontline staff can point to it? Like, is that something that would be like on a sign or something? I mean, it depends on how I suppose it depends on how often this situation comes up. Or, and I'm just riffing off what this question says, is there somewhere where you all have in your like at your front desk? Here's our binder of the policies. Let me show you the one that I'm talking about. And so I'm under that available. Yeah, I like the latter. Just because I think that we can get so sign heavy. Yeah, well, then they're ignored. So we have a binder of our policies at the desk, and they can also easily be printed off for patrons as requested. We even have some of our, especially our code of conduct printed out on like a little bookmark size. And we have them throughout the library. So that way in case someone is, you know, breaking any of the codes of conduct, we have an easy thing that we can grab throughout the building and say, Hey, maybe you didn't know, but here's our code of conduct. You can take a look at it. And, you know, as a way to kind of diffuse the situation and also educate them at the same time. And again, giving staff that they have something they can do and take to someone rather than say, Hey, I'm making this up, you know, like to prove that this is our real policy here, just in writing. And so we have them on in handouts throughout the building. So I find that helpful. Yeah. And I think that's exactly the approach is I don't think you know, or maybe you didn't know, rather than accusing them of, Hey, you're doing something wrong. Sure. Yeah. Kill them with kindness. Yeah. Kill them with everything cool we have. So go back to the videos that you showed someone wants to know. And do some people, some of these auditors come in aggressively instead of passively like in the two examples, what is their usual way of starting there? They just come in kind of sneaky, I'm just gonna video and see what happens. Or do some come in saying things right off the bat to staff. There's a whole gamut. Some just walk in. Others are ready, looking for a fight. There are videos out there where patrons get involved. And that was gonna be I've got to be lax that and before they came up with I even wrote down myself. What about patrons confronting them? Has anyone had experienced a staff not engaged in the auditor, but a patron getting angry about getting filmed and making a scene? Did the patron sometimes ask them to stop? Don't videotape me. Leave me alone. They're definitely our videos out there like that, that I've seen. And then I think you have to be really careful to follow that code of conduct and how the patron is that's being recorded is behaving as well as the person that's doing the recording because that has really escalated the situation in some cases where the library staff is on the patron side and because they also don't want there to be filming. And so they don't really address any behavior concerns on that end and just on the other end. And but yeah, it can get messy if the patrons get involved for sure. And it said, you know, the patrons may not like it, but they are out in public. So they do have to, you know, take that with you might not like it. Maybe you leave for now. Come back later. This is a public library. Public Yeah. Yeah. There's some more staff training resources. We do have one link from the auditor's perspective. It's about as neutral as I could find. There are folks who say, why are you giving them this audience? Well, you don't have to click it. Be prepared. Learn learn. I don't want to use the word that I want to use, but see what they're coming at you from that. Yeah. And that's one of the questions, too, is why what is there, what would be, what is the reason for doing this besides, you know, showing off and getting views? But is there ever any follow up after that if they've had an encounter that they did not think was done correctly by the library side where they were kicked out or totally couldn't videotape and, you know, broke the First Amendment ability to videotape? What do these people do then? Is there something else that, like, do they go to the mayor? Do they try and sue? I mean, beyond the views and the clicks and showing off the videos, is there something else that they try to do as a follow up? I've seen one lawsuit mentioned in one of the videos that, you know, I try not to watch them because I don't want to give them my views. But I have seen that, but it was, it was involving police officers. It wasn't anything about the library. And it was, it was something that they caught the officers doing on camera that they then filed a lawsuit. And I don't know the legitimacy of any of that. So, you know, I think if we, if we look at it from rose-colored glasses and like there were a good reason to do this, I think what, what they might say is that they are really just trying to make sure that our rights as Americans are protected and that we have the freedom to do and say what the Constitution says we are allowed to do and say. And so this is their way of protecting that. I think that is what someone, I think that's what they would say from their perspective. From our perspective, it certainly looks like wanting to pick a fight and posting it on YouTube and getting clicks and possibly monetizing it and, you know, promoting your channel. And a lot of them will even say like, hey, this is whatever channel, you know, like they're very actively, openly promoting their channel and this is how they're choosing to do it. In a couple of articles that I've read recently, you know, libraries are facing a lot of book challenges. Oh yeah. And there could be correlation, you know, whether showing these books on video that are highly challenged and, oh, look what they have. And then that kind of stirs the pot. It's just something to be aware of that. They might at some point tie those together. We just don't know, but it's always good to be prepared. It seems like the same kind of people may be involved in both of those groups, right? They want the right to video record and have the have rights. But don't read that book. Right. Don't have that right. This is another one. So basically our final thoughts. Remember that when the audit goes well, nobody hears about it. Any lack of controversy is not newsworthy. But if there's any kind of for fuffle. You might find it on YouTube. Mm hmm. And then there's our contact information. Yeah. Yeah, so be prepared is the key here. Definitely. Be aware and be prepared. We do have another question come in. He has come in here. Anyone else has any other questions? We still have about 10 minutes left in our hour officially. If you have any other questions, comments, if you've encountered this in your library and how you dealt with it, good or bad, let us know. And we can talk about that. All right, so we'll just leave this slide up here for now. So you have their contact information, Jessica Lawrence. Guy would be happy to speak to you about any of these issues. We have a good question here. Someone says it's a little longer. We don't allow patrons to stare continually at other patrons or staff and make them uncomfortable. We've had issues with stalking in our branches before. If someone recording is focusing on a specific staff person or patron continually against their will, how is this different from stalking behavior? When can we call the police and when they've crossed that line? Where does that? Where is that line? In your case, Jessica, of your video, that's something I thought about then, too, is nobody knew why this person was there. It could have been a stalking issue. It could have been someone because they were hiding their identity very obviously. And then went back into a staff area. They specifically may have been specifically looking for a particular employee for some reason. There I mean, we are having librarians physically attacked and killed at their libraries because of things they've encountered. They've had the patrons that has nothing to do with first and then audits. So how is there? How do you figure out where that line is to call the police? Where it's escalated to something this is too weird to, well, disruptive, scaring people, that kind of thing. I think that's a fabulous question and one that I know I certainly don't have the answer to. Sounds like this person is in a multi-branch system, so probably in a bigger community. You know, we're a town of about twenty five thousand. So we knew this was not one of our regular patrons. It wasn't someone known to us. So. Yeah, I think every community is going to be different. And where you draw that line in a smaller town, you might know if someone, if there is a stalking issue with your staff, you might very well know about it. But you might not and you might not know that this person has a protection order against someone else.  Yeah, that's a tough one. I don't know. Sky and Laura, if you have advice on that, I think based on my recent interaction with the local police department, I would just. Follow my gut. If it started to feel wrong, I'd call them and say, hey, I have a potential situation. I wouldn't call 911 necessarily, but the non-emergent number and I don't know, I'd probably end up on YouTube. I think you have a policy. I'm sorry. Now go ahead. We do have a policy addressing unwelcome contact or staring or. And, you know, basically if somebody brings it to staff's attention, then we have a conversation with them and say. Your actions are making another person feel uncomfortable. We have plenty of room in the library. Do you want to move over here or, you know, ask the other patron to move or whether that's right or not. A code of conduct issue.  That's where that was in wonder. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think erring on the side of caution is good to have that policy about disrupt, disrupting other patrons and follow it. And you don't know. You may not know why these people, they're following us filming, even in that second one. At first, I'm sure they didn't know why they were filming. They still didn't come in and say, hey, we're filming for this purpose. They just came in and started videotaping at the Colorado Library and waited for someone to say something. And the library at the front desk, the staffers there just greeted them and said, OK, let him do your thing. And they still didn't say why they were there. So you still didn't know. And if you don't know and things become a little yet, your gut is the key. And it doesn't hurt to call the non-emergency, get the police there, let them know this happened. For any, yeah, because if it does become something else, not a First Amendment audit, you want to have that documented, definitely, I think. Well, and I feel like the police are very well aware of the First Amendment audits.  They've certainly been trained on it. So. In our case, even the individual person was well known to them once the police, you know, unfortunately got involved. And I say, unfortunately, because they handled the situation very well. It's just that we inadvertently gave the film or exactly what he wanted. But they were they they were completely aware of this person and and what this person was doing. And, you know, it was, like you said, they're very familiar with this. Question for you specifically, Jessica, so must know after they did that that video was done in your library, did you call the police after that was filmed to say, hey, this strange thing happened and we're not sure what it was all about. Well, the full story is, you know, because this person was so nonverbal and not dressed for the weather, we were actually very worried about them. And after they left the library, they went back in the parking lot and were kind of like hiding behind a car. And we're just behaving really strangely for for like half an hour. And so I got worried about them and thought maybe a caregiver was looking for them. So I called to do a well check on the person because I was worried about him because I didn't know what was going on. And so the well check, of course, is always done by officers. And so officers show up showed up and gave that interaction, which is why I'm like, that's my fault. I called. But we didn't call because he was filming. We didn't call because of the behavior in the library. We were really honest. Once he left, we could still see him. And and we're honestly worried about him. Yes.  And you never know if a person does need assistance or they lost. Are they is it someone who is? Yeah, just. Yeah. And I called and said, Hey, has someone reported this person missing?  Because they're here. No, I see those news reports of police are looking for this 85 year old man who walked away from his home. Please help. You never know. Yeah. So another question about that Grand Island Public Library now has a police station in their library in their lobby. I'm sorry. In their lobby. What do you think of that kind of situation? Is that something that? I suppose that the police are right there right away. I'm not sure what the question is about that, but that they do have that quickly available. In having security in your build in your building or next door. I think there's always a pro con about that. I mean, it's a great safety thing and we have a wonderful relationship with our police and they're very supportive in our community, but there are always going to be people who will not come in because they see an officer there who do not have the same experience with police officers wherever they're from. So that would be I think that would be interesting because there is definitely a pro con situation there. And there's some clarification here that it's actually a substation and isn't always doesn't always have police there isn't always staffed. It's like if they need to be there or something or it's a place they can stop off for things. So I'm going to totally stop and check that out next time I'm in Grand Island. Yeah, absolutely. All right, we're almost at 11 a.m. Central time here. Does anybody have any last minute desperate questions they want to ask of Sky Laura or Jessica or anything you want to recommend or suggest? Go ahead and get it into the questions section. We go to webinar interface and we will answer any questions you have. We'll get caught up cut off just 11 o'clock will go as long as people have issues they want to discuss. Well, I'm waiting to see if anything else does come up. I'm just going to say thank you very much. Jessica, Sky Laura. Sorry, everyone for the little technical issues at the beginning, but we got it all figured out. No problem. Thank you for bringing it coming on today and talking about this. I think it's a very important issue, of course, and something that too many libraries are having to deal with and. I hate that it's happening everywhere, not just in libraries and hopefully just with some preparation and knowing how to respond to this, just like with any issue that might come up in your library. The libraries can not be. Become news items in this particular. All right, just a lot of thank you's coming in. Very interesting. Any last minute words from you all before we wrap things up. I can't think of anything. Thank you so much for giving us the platform. Absolutely. Yeah. And everyone does have questions. You can always reach out to many of them. All right. I am going to pull presenter control back to my screen to wrap up here. I should see that change. There you are, Laura. Hi there. There's the best chance of not freezing up again. There's always something. Yeah. All right. So that will wrap it up for today's show. I'm going to pop back over to our end compass live. So thank you, everyone, for attending today. Thank you, Laura and Jessica and Sky for presenting. As I said, the show is recorded. This is our end compass live website. If you use your search engine of choice and type in end compass live, we're the only thing called that on the internet. No one else is allowed to use it. And so you'll find our pages. Our upcoming shows are listed here and our archives link is right at the bottom. We'll get you a page where it has all of our archives. Most recent one will be at the top of the page. So today's will be posted there. I should have it up and ready by the end of the day tomorrow at the latest. Everyone who attended today's show and registered for today's show will get an email from me letting you know when it's ready. While while we're so you'll know, we will also then push out onto our various social media. We do have a Facebook page. You may have seen it linked on some of our pages where we post things. Here's a reminder to log into today's show. Meet our speakers and we do then announce on here when recordings are available. So we'll post there as well. So if you like to use Facebook, give us like over there. We also use our hashtag and come live to post on Twitter and Instagram. So if you want to follow us there, you can get updates and know what's going on on the show. On here on the archive page, I'll show you there is a search feature. If you want to see if you've done a show on any other particular topic you're interested in or have any presenters, you can search it. You can do the the full show archives are just most recent 12 months. We're going to make sure it's just something current. That is because this is our full show archives. I'm not going to scroll all the way down because it's a huge, huge page going. It goes back to when we first premiered and Compass Live, which was January 2009. So we are actually in this year. 2023 is the our 15th year of and Compass Live. So there's and they're all here. All of them on our YouTube account for the Library Commission. So just do pay attention when you are watching a previous show. Look at the original broadcast date. It is on every once you'll know exactly when it happened. Some of the shows will be fine and will be good to still watch stand the test of time. No problem. But some things will become old outdated and will no longer be valid websites and resources may be broken, may have changed drastically. Staff may no longer work at a library that they presented from. So just pay attention to that if you are watching any of our older shows. So that I'll wrap it up for all of today's I do want to hear. We do at the Library Commission. We do this weekly and Compass Live show. But we also host and I just want to put in a plug for this are in an annual conference. Big talk from small libraries. This is a conference always held on the last Friday of February. So this year it's on February 24th. And it is all the presenters are from is co-sponsored by the Nebraska Library Commission and the Association for Rural and Small Libraries. So all of our presenters are from libraries with an FTE or populations population served of 10,000 or less. That's our criteria for small libraries. And the schedule is up. Registration is open. So please do take a look at our schedule and register if you're interested in if you are a small library and want to see what other libraries are doing or if you're interested just knowing what small libraries are doing. We do have links to our previous conferences. We started this in 2012. So you can also see any of our previous events if you want to. So this will be happening at the end of next month. So please do sign up for that. And any of our upcoming Encompass Live shows next week. Our topic is tech girls. Learn about tech girls, inspire girls in your community. The last Friday of every month on Encompass Live is pretty sweet tech day. That is when Amanda Sweet, our technology innovation librarian comes on the show and talks about something tech related. We have tech related things other times of the month. But you can guarantee always the last Wednesday of the month will be Amanda. And this month she is bringing on Sarah Neiman, who's from this tech girls group, going to talk about inspiring middle school girls to get into technology. So I definitely do sign up for that show or any of her other future episodes. So thank you, everybody, for being here. Thank you. Skye and Laura and Jessica. And hopefully we'll see you all at a future episode of Encompass Live. Bye bye.