Just give us a sec and we'll spoil it for you, jeez. I'm excited, just do it. Yeah, we'll do Black Widow 3rd out of those three, but which would you guys want to do first? We should get Midnight. Well, let's do the Mario thing, because it's probably going to be quick. Midnight maps will probably take a little bit longer. And plus, we need to just get that out of our systems. Yes. OK. So, well, we're almost public. So, you know, Fringy, I feel like you should take the reins on this. You should give the exposition. Mario. You saw it live. I didn't even see it live. I did see it live. Nintendo Direct. There was Nintendo Direct the other day. And it was really cool. There's like a 3D Kirby open world game. That looks really cool. Band Edit 3 finally. It's been like four years since that game now. It looks awesome. Lots of fun. Splatoon 3 looks really cool. So there was a lot of cool stuff. And then Shigeru Miyamoto comes in. It's like, oh, hey, I've been over in America like working on this Mario movie. It's coming out next year. And then it's like, oh, we're about to announce the English voice cast for Mario. Now, the preamble, I had heard about this movie. And I wasn't super optimistic because it's illumination. I don't really make good movies. But are they the despicable new people?  Basically, they're messing up. No, that's Dreamworks. Oh, that's the A team. I got you. Yeah. So funnily enough, I had just assumed that the avoid... Oh, sorry, assumed. I had assumed that Charles Martinet would just be the voice of Mario. Fringy, what's wrong with staying assured? Oh, that's a whole story. I got a comment.  We're Australians. We can put your language as much as we freaking want. Yeah, that was that was my initial. Oh, we can tell you can. On that topic. But anyway, yeah, I had just assumed that the original voice actors would be involved. I just assumed I thought that's what they were going to do. I never even thought that they would be getting other voices because, like, I don't know that I don't know that I was ready to ever learn that there would be other people who were playing Mario and Luigi and Toad and stuff. But then you just get that image on screen. Chris Pratt, Mario, I don't know what I'm meant to do with that. I don't know what I'm meant to do with that. Well, I have no idea. There are some great takes to the fact that everybody, all the headshots that they used for the actors were in color, except for Chris Pratt. Yeah, that was so weird. Kind of suggest it like he died during. Mario movie in memory of Chris Pratt. It's what he would have wanted. I am dedicated to Chris Pratt, Mario movie. Is he going to try and do the accent? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. We talked about this before. I was thinking it would be really cringe to do it. But now I'm thinking like it probably would be he can't. He can't do it, right? Because it would be too offensive nowadays. Are you going to mark Italians? You can mark Italians. Well, well, Italians are white-ish, so it depends. Maybe it's it's it's funny. You say that because there's like a defamation case going on in Australia where a comedian made fun of an Italian. Oh, oh, no, not a comedian making fun of an Italian. Well, he called him Super Barra Laro. Super Barra Laro, that's offensive. But I guess he could still. Well, if Mario is OK, if you're allowed to do Mario anyway, then surely you can still do Mario, like with the Italian voice. Chris Pratt said on his Instagram that they're working on the accent. Oh, my God. So it is going to be a voice. Oh, my God, it's going to be a voice, I guess. You know what? I think Jack, Jack Black will be entertaining. I'm not sure about he does not seem like Bowser to me at all. I just cannot see this. Kind of the whole thing here is like none of these people seem like. I was Keegan-Michael Key toad. Yeah, even Michael Keen makes you go, what? See, I told the guy who constantly has a really high pitch kind of whiny sort of voice. Yeah, I think. Well, I guess the thing is Seth Morgan is Donkey Kong. Like, what is that? What is that? I don't know what that is. I can't I can't picture this film like it doesn't exist in my head. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know what it is. It's so bizarre. I can't even formulate my imagination. If I could make a picture version of it, I guess the problem is I sit here and I can see it. I can also see Charlie Day as Luigi kind of kind of miscast. There should have been Willem Dafoe. Everyone knows. No, wait, sorry. Willem Dafoe is while Luigi would be the most suitable. Oh, yeah, that would be fun. I'm something of a war myself. I wonder if they're going to have war on while Luigi. No, he's it's going to be like a Marvel Cinematic Universe cut in at the end where we got Danny DeVito going at the end. I like we're going to have Link or something and they'll be a super smash. Oh, no. The funny thing is that's something that I would have thought would have been cool, but not anymore.  Look at this. Look at him on screen. I don't I don't know. I think Jack Black could put on a bit of a bowser voice. If he if he tries not to play Jack Black, but tries to do why are Jack Black's adult play Jack Black? That's all Jack. All Jack Black can do is Jack Black usually just does black. Yeah, that's all he does. It's Jack Black, but Macho. What game is that? Like something legend, brutal legend, right? He's still kind of just Jack Black in that game, though. Yeah, yeah, that's all he is. Yeah. Well, I don't know about you guys, but I reckon they should have rehired Bob Hoskins to just do the voice of Mario in the original film. A little bit dead. Yeah, Mario Mario. Where is the CGI? Oh, the power.  But yeah, they even have Charles Martinet in the cast, but he's not Mario Luigi, Wario or Waluigi, which he's done for a decade now. I don't know. To me, that just it's like how it was recently talked about Space Jam 2, like none of the voice actors who did all of the other Looney Tunes got credited. Zendaya got a credit for Lola Bunny, but nobody else got a credit.  But like in any case, they're like the three main characters. They weren't on the poster. Their name wasn't top billing. Like they weren't even on the poster, but they're playing the main characters. It just feels like that. Yeah, the problem with modern movies is credits aren't they're not to credit the creators who helped make a film. It's advertising. It's for marketing. Oh, I mean, it's always been advertising. It's always been a contract. I guess it's just like really lame that the guy who is kind of almost solely maybe not solely responsible because it was obviously creative influence, right? But like the Mario that everybody knows is like that's him. And we all know it is for marketing, but at the same time, they are called credits. And it's like we like to believe in our mystical world that credits are designed to credit the people who have brought this to life sort of thing.  Because usually that's just what happens along with marketing this time, though, or a lot of times recently. It's like to put it to put it to perspective. Charles Martin has been playing Mario since 1992. Yeah, really. Yeah, literally longer than I've been alive. Right. So you think the guy like he'd be a great, a great pick. I mean, I understand that they're going to do. I understand, like, for example, they're not using James Hader or sorry, David Hader for the middle of your salt movie because it's a live action movie. I understand that you've got to have the physicality and the voice. But in animation, you can use whomever you want. You don't really need to pick celebrities because you don't see them. It's all about the voice. So well, I think it just kind of. I kind of because it's this is like a meme, but they could they could make a Mario movie that could be really wholesome and fun. That's I feel like that's entirely possible. Yeah, you could have a Mario film where there's actually not a lot of dialogue at all. You could have a lot of it just be communicated through visual views. I mean, it's animation like that's that's the place to do it. But we don't want to do that. We want like Donkey Kong needs to sound like Seth Rogen, probably. We need like the celebrity voices to sell. Don't get that, Donkey Kong. He's just going to be a weed. I guess that's what I mean. It's like they tried Bowser talking and then they made it subtitles again for a reason. Like I don't want to hear these people talking. I don't want to hear Mario talking in full conversations. I just want let's go. Yeah. That's that's all I want. You've got to be directing this. I have no idea. I'm on the stage. Yeah, I don't know. But it's your stage. Platform, you know what? I'll take I'll take Super Mario movie director. When. We might not know yet. Oh, it's the Bob Hoskins one. Twenty, twenty two. Yeah, that's coming out next year. No, Bob Hoskins one's not going. Oh, wait, that one's already out. Is Chris Pratt Italian? I mean, I don't know. Like he's culturally appropriate. Races that, yeah, that is not Italian. I've seen people complaining about that on Twitter already. They're like the chance to have Italian representation. You give it to an American woman.  It's Mario. Calm down.  Yes, it's the recording booth. It just makes sounds. Maybe it doesn't have to go good. Don't be probably. Oh, OK, OK, Batman, Brave and the Bold. Oh, they did cartoons, at least. So at least they know what they're doing. Well, of course they did cartoons. It's not often that you get live action directors making. Oh, yeah, that's true. Also, again, it's illumination. But again, Shigeru Miyamoto has apparently been advising on it and he's highly protective of Mario as an IP. So what are they doing? Like, what are they allowed to do? You know? Well, apparently not. Yeah, but he doesn't let people make Paper Mario games. But like he's letting this happen, you know? I don't know. I think that they'll basically probably police the tone and not make another Super Mario Brothers 1993, because that was like you pick it apart. It wasn't a terrible, completely terrible movie, but it was just the tone was so wrong from our Mario Brothers movie. I saw that in theaters, I think, as a kid. That was one of my biggest disappointments in cinema. I swear to God. Yeah, I was kind of bored when I was watching it, actually. Yeah, I've been learning about it a lot, actually, the last couple of days. Apparently, they got like the same production designer who did like Max Headroom, Blade Runner and stuff like that. So they got a lot of like really like talented people because like you look at the sets. You got like these miniaturized cities that have neon signs like Kupa and Bullet Bills bar or whatever and all these things. So like they obviously put a lot of work into it. But I think it was like a husband and wife director duo and they were getting in like personal fights on set and stuff like that. So the production was a complete mess. But there was like some talented people working on it. It just was not the right fit for that story. I mean, we'll get some good memes out of all of this, I guess. Oh, probably. No, I'm willing to be surprised by the movie. I mean, it could be good. Yeah, it could be good. It's not like in the Sony in the Sonic trailer where we actually see Sonic looking like, you know, and everyone, we haven't seen anything yet. Well, I mean, I get the impression with it. Go ahead. I'm reserving judgment until I hear like Seth Rogen speak. Doc is Donkey Kong. So hot take. I'm not a fan of Mario or the universe he exists in. Wow, because he doesn't exist in the universe. He exists in a galaxy. Yeah. And it goes there. OK. But it all strikes me as very random, incongruent, messed, not too much of a consistent through line in a thematic style or execution and stuff. And it's just like a vomiting, a random things thrown together that they just combine into a video game. And I'm not experienced in the law. And so there's probably heaps of fanboys going to be coming out saying, well, you just need to know all the background and all that stuff. Funny because I'm sitting here. It's like, well, Yoshi saved Mario as a little baby. And then later on, Mario grows up to live in the Mushroom Kingdom and help Princess Peach and save her. And they go to all these different kingdoms and they have their own names. There's like the Mushroom Kingdom, then there's the Kingdom they go to in three world where they've got like the little pixie princesses that they have to save. Let's not forget the Island Resort of I'll Del Fino. Yes, I'll Del Fino. And then, of course, the Observatory when they go to the Super Mario Galaxy going on adventures with Rosalina. In fact, Super Mario Galaxy had like a story like it had an actual story and it was kind of cool. I will be interested to see how they translated into a film in this new attempt because it was an interesting execution the last time. So I because I think it could obviously work for video games because it's just random combination of all these different elements that, OK, in the background, if that's explained, just on the surface, it looks very, you know, out of place with all these different elements thrown together and say, yeah, we'll see if they can pull it off in the film. I disagree. I think it's very coherent. You've got a Mexican plumber who's also Italian made by a Japanese development company who lives with the soundtrack is Caribbean music with the Caribbean drums, who eats mushrooms to get the power to defeat dragons while also riding a dinosaur. I think that's perfectly. I guess it's I guess that is the funny thing. The funny thing about the Mexican writers is it was they just wanted to figure out mechanics. And like, I'm not sure how concerned they were with like the story when they first made it. But then Mario became like the biggest thing ever. So it's like, all right, let's let's like actually figure out what this is. Like it like completely embraces the random. And I think it doesn't price the random. Yeah. Yeah. And it got even weirder because the original there's the original NES game. And then the sequel actually was never released in the states. Instead, they took a different, Birdo and all those other weird creatures and stuff. And then they reskinned it and released it as Mario 2. So what we know in the States as Mario 2 was actually a completely different game. So you're basically merging these two very, very different universes together. And then that all became canon. And then they did whatever basically they did whatever and anything, anything stuck. So. Well, I mean, I actually, I like, I kind of like the inconsistency because yeah, there is no canon. It seems to make much sense. But I do like the inconsistency in the sense that it feels like there's a lot of variety, even though you kind of have this idea in the head of like, oh yeah, Mario, Mushroom Kingdom. And like the hills have smiles on their faces and things like that. So it feels like there are these different places. Well, we're horrifying and charming. I actually, I think when I saw this announcement, what I realized is like, I actually do really love Mario. Like I really like these Mario games. You're just friends. I would be, wow, yeah.  The main thing that I don't know if it'll hold up in movie form is that despite all the wacky, completely non-senseful stuff that's happened in the probably 50 to 100 plus Mario games over the past 30 plus years, what's always held them up is really solid gameplay. Like who cares what you're playing and what you're doing if the gameplay is solid? Like there's very few Mario games that are actually bad. They're all really, ever really solid foundation. Like one of my least favorite ones is Yoshi's Island, not because the gameplay of the game is actually great, but I despise the little crying baby Mickey. Oh sure, yeah, but I- It's a great game, yeah. Or Yoshi's Island, it's like, oh, yeah. That's a great game. That's been my kind of impression, that there's been a lot of Mario games I've enjoyed over the past, like the really old school ones and even Mario Kart I enjoyed heaps because the gameplay has always been solid and entertaining, but the background story, I've always thought it's just utter complete garbage. And it's like, I'm not really interested in Mario as a character. The fact is a plumber and so to me, trying to make a film out of that is basically trying to take the worst weakest parts of the franchise into a film that's reliant on those weakest elements of the franchise. We don't know if that's what it's relying on. Well, a film technically is predominantly a story and the story element of Mario things is- It could be hyper adaptation, right? Like this could be hyper different I don't expect it to be because I don't think they would do that, but it could be hyper different from Mario. But then again, when it comes to the story thing, it's like, yeah, I agree. I mean, I find the story is totally fine in terms of the context of the games. It's like, yep, your princess is not another castle, go get her, that's totally fine. It just pushes you forward. But I mean, if we're gonna pick a Nintendo IP and make a movie out of it, I feel like you could have picked anything else and it would have been a better option, like Star Fox, Metroid, Zelda. Yes. Oh, it's a Metroid would be great. You could have on Kirby. What do you go, Mario movie? I'm just like, what, hmm, what is that gonna be? Like- Of all of them, make a Fire Emblem movie. You can make a movie about basically any other Nintendo IP. You can make a friggin, like, you can make a knockout movie. You just do that, but like Mario, it was like the weirdest choice of them all. You could make a Luigi's Mansion movie. You could make a Luigi's Mansion movie. They could do so much with like Zelda as well, bringing Link into live action and stuff, like full on epic fantasy treatment. Well, maybe we'll be getting them if this is a success, which it probably would be, right, if they market it right. Well, it's Illumination, all their films make money and they're probably gonna, it's probably gonna make money. I'm assuming this got started up because of Sonic. I would assume. No, I think this was on the cards several years ago. Like it's been known about for a while that this project's been happening. It might have been Warcraft even, like I'm not sure if there's just more video game movies now. I mean, well, if we're going that far back, I mean, everything would have encouraged it, right? In the same way that maybe Logan was being tooled with for a while and then Deadpool made it, so they were like, all right, let's do it. No, it's funny. There was a leaked poster, early pre-release poster for the Sonic movie that had Chris Pratt instead of James Marsden. So yeah, I can't 100% verify the veracity of it, but I saw the picture and it looked pretty legit and I'm a photoshop, you know, do photoshop for a day job. So it looked pretty legit to me, but if that's true. I'm gonna get a real job. Yeah, real job. But if that's true, then Chris Pratt was directed by Sega to then work for Nintendo. Oh my God. What kind of world is that? So yeah, plenty to be worried about. We'll see how it all goes. It'll probably be a meme riot. I was gonna say, it was quite the meme in general for the incident. Seeing Chris Pratt as Mario was just like, wow, that's, hmm, okay. Everyone thought it was a joke. Memes are great regardless, yeah. Like that one on screen, look at him, look at him go. My prediction is that it's gonna be absolute garbage. I'd hope that it wouldn't be, but not only am I just more cynical these days because of the just slop being made, because I'm already a bit, you know, skeptical in the franchise being adapted into a story format like this is like, I'm thinking it's gonna be horrible. They could do one thing though, it would make the movie 100% consistent and perfect. After everything, all the illumination, 3D, hygiene, spouser, you know, Seth Rogen, whatever.    Yeah, and then there's Smash Brothers, Super Smash Brothers movie by a limitation. Oh my God, they're gonna do it. Oh my God, Friggy, they're gonna do it now. Sounds crazy, but in a world of this adventurous world. Yeah, there's no way that that's not been discussed if not been the focus. That's probably like the main thing they wanna do.  Maybe if this works, we'll have a Donkey Kong movie. I can see them like talking about it behind the scenes. Well, I think Cranky Kong is in this movie. Which is that? Yeah, more distant Kong. Cranky Kong is the original, so here's your Mario lore. So like the Donkey Kong that isn't like all the Mario Kart games, the happy one, the Donkey Kong Country one, he's the grandson of the original Donkey Kong from Mario 4 in the first game as Cranky Kong. He's angry. Okay. So Donkey Kong that you're familiar with is like the happy, friendly- It's Jump Man, right, is the first one? Yeah, Jump Man was originally in for Mario back in the day with like the original Donkey Kong arcade game and wrecking crew. Wrecking crew and something. But Pauline's back now after Odyssey and she's sticking around and she's really cool. Well, so cool about Pauline ringing. She's a great singer. She's the mayor of a town. She's doing a bang-up job trying to help out her citizens. She's got like a very smooth voice. She gets captured by apes. Well, but not anymore. She's the mayor of New Donk City, all right? She's revitalising that town. She broke up with Mario? Well, you know, they moved on to the beach. Mario, Mario, yeah. Mario was Flopman and she was the princess of the city. Well, that's that, I suppose. Super Mario. Super Mario, bam, bam, bam. Which I suppose leads us to the second event of this intro. It's going to be less funny. Yeah. So all right, we're done with that topic. It's all down here from here, guys. Well, I think you're referring to Black Widow. So topic number two. Good old, good old Horton of Hill House is something that we often praise and people really liked. And then Blind Matter came out as everyone remembers. We loved it. A lot of people didn't like it at all. And then Midnight Mass was this new show coming out. Same creator, same, a lot of the same cast and same sort of, I guess I could say, is just style. The same approach and, you know, we were all we're all excited. Released yesterday and because we're totally normal people, we spent nine hours just watching the entire season all the way through. Oh, God, damn. Oh, damn. That's what we spent our yesterday doing. Yeah. At least half. Yes. And it was a triumph, an absolute wonderful thing. What was it called again? Wait, Midnight Mass? Midnight Mass. I thought the Midnights were exceptionally done. You've not even seen it.  What? No, I don't know what you're doing.    The Mass is good. So, I mean, I don't know how I. Hey, Rags, what did you think of Midnight Mass? So, Mahler, I'm glad you asked. So for those of us who remember when we talked about Hill House, that was 10 episodes long. And we thought the first nine episodes were super great. We really love. There's a lot of really good stuff in there. Nine solid episodes of crazy good TV. And then episode 10 happened and it kind of did a lot of damage to everything. It was a really, really, really bad. Catastrophic 10th episode. We will remain spoiler free until we say that we won't be. He said every show, I had the same experience with Hill House and Bly Manor. I loved everything up until episode 10. So, obviously, there was a 10th episode at one because. Oh, there was no 10th episode, but also the Bly Manor, like the finale is pretty good. It's really good. It doesn't, you know, we'll get to that. But Rags continue. And like I said, we will sign post when we get to spoilers chat. And you'll know to leave. Don't worry. Yeah, so Mike Flanagan, he's the guy who does these three shows, right? He has a track, he sort of has a track record of starting something, not getting to the finish line and tripping horribly. And unfortunately, midnight mass had us on the edge of our seats with excitement for the first six out of the seven episodes. It was full of incredibly good dialogue, well constructed character conversations. It had great tone, shot compositions, it had a great setting. It was very interesting to see, you know, what it was about and how things were explained and what was happening with all the characters. And we were very, very, very pleased with the show. And then episode seven happened. And it kind of ruined basically everything. And we and we we were not happy campers. I woke up today and I saw no group chat. I just saw Mel saying, I'm still sad. But like, yeah, it is one of the worst endings to a TV show I've ever seen in my life. It is kind of incredible. Profitally bad, six amazing episodes that I highly recommend six stellar, wonderfully crafted pieces of media all capped off with a giant turd. And like people, people might be like, wow, again, like it's worse than Hill House this time. The drop off was I think it's worse than Hill House. It's cliff levels.  Why was the last episode so bad? Well, so I'm thinking now, like if we want to get a little bit more specific, this is your warning people in chat and people in the cast, if you want to mute. I suppose I will signal that we're back to non-spoilers by showing the cast of the new Mario movie. So I might mute it because I've not seen it yet. So I'd rather experience it even if it's going to be disappointing. All right. I have no intention of watching it. I'm not a fan of horrors. So go ahead and spoil very well. All right. It's like the other ones. It's not really horary in a more in a traditional sense. It has some spooky moments, but they are they're spaced out fairly well. They sort of sneak up on you. It's not like it's not like a conjuring or anything like that. So if you generally don't watch horror stuff, I think this still might interest you. I would definitely recommend these shows because I wouldn't say that the horror is really their strength, per se, but it's a great tonal addition. It it's used really, really well. But the horror that's there, I liked it. It's just not yeah, it's not all the time. It's not really highly focused, much more based on the characters. And yeah, so last chance, people in chat run away. Like I said, I'll signal you by changing the screen to the cast of the Mario movie coming next year or whatever. So this show is is is mainly about a little island town that our our protagonist is returning to after having served, I think, 10 years in prison, something like that. Or Oh, is it? Is four to 10. OK, it's four. I think for someone I think you got four. And he comes back and I mean, I'm trying to think of how fast I should explain this, I guess. It's just weird things going on. And the local main Monsignor is mysteriously kind of missing and a new guy is replacing him. And Mass starts to get more and more popular over the course of the episodes and the town starts experiencing miracles, different people getting healed for different ailments. Meanwhile, we're learning a lot about all the people who are there and why they're there. And I mean, there's also sightings of a hideous person slash creature on the island. And weird things are happening, like cats are getting killed on mass. And I guess that's about all you could say before progressing to the halfway in the season. Where we start to discover that the again, this is just spoilers. So why not? Because I want to get to that last episode and explain quickly how horrible it is. So the the Monsignor is a man who when losing is like mind. He stumbled in the desert on while on a pilgrimage and discovered a vampire in a cave. They never use the word vampire in the show. But I mean, I don't understand why you wouldn't refer to this thing as a vampire. So we have to assume there are no vampires in their world, because none of them refer to any of this as vampiric in any way, shape or form. But it's a good old pale, winged, monstery humanoid. And yes, what, you know, flies a whole nine yards. It doesn't go out in day time. Yeah.  Why not? Fun. Let's see where this goes. And the Monsignor interprets all of it. Nice reveal, I'll add. The whole because you don't really know what's happening. And then they reveal it that, oh, it's like a vampire thing. Yeah, but in a very good way. We were like, oh, this is a vampire thing. All right. Yeah, we had no idea that was coming. It was cool. And then the Monsignor interprets this all very much to be religious, that the vampire is actually an angel. But the the youth and healing faculties and stuff that are given to him are all through like gods. Divine plan. And so he wants to spread it to the town to look after everyone, but to also warn them of the fact that when you get this amazing benefit, you're unable to go out in the sun and you get a thirst for blood. We are about. Yeah. And and, you know, there's a couple subversions here and there, a couple of twists and turns. I don't know. I can probably avoid.  So it'll be like Hill House. Again, avoiding more so the journey, I'll just get to the ending so that we can talk about why there's a main stupid thing we have to get to. So the the the town gets fully infected, if you will, almost during a midnight mass and the the remaining citizens who are either non-religious or refused to take communion, which is how they were giving vampire blood off to people a lot of time.  Our our our heroes escape and a lot of the town is just getting slaughtered and the vampire team try and attack. They try and attack our heroes by throwing some molotovs into a house and then they realize that that house is set on fire now and it's going to spread and then they're like, that's fine. Because Bible verse about fire. And then our heroes start setting the remaining houses on fire as well as the boats on the island because our heroes plan is if we get rid of all the abilities to leave the island and all of the cover on the island, the sun will kill all the vampires. And we will we were like watching this episode. That was like a halfway point. I think that became clear and we were like, huh? Hmm. Like why would that's kind of baffling. And why would burning all the buildings mean they can't take cover from the sun? They can't find a tree or dig a hole or any number of things or a bridge or any number of things that human beings get stacked some tin cans in a wall. Yeah, it was just high. Well, they're like, oh, but the houses are burning. They have to be know it's like you can still hide underneath the rubble. That's, you know, if your choice is that or die, like, you know, basically, the show tells us to accept a completely ridiculous, implausible, logically nonsensical premise. Yeah, we have to accept something impossible because they kind of want an ultron ending where it's like, nah, all of them are dead. See, it's all good. They stopped them. They're all dead. Yeah, there is a portion in the show where a crowd of vampires are heading toward the last building that's not on fire. And that building gets set on fire because one of the vampires has a change of heart and does it. But then all of the vampires are basically like, well, we're fucked. Nothing we can do. Let's just stand in the open and get bit by the sun.  And thematically, a show that I thought was leading to a certain place now feels like it's all over the place and it kind of doesn't know what it is thematically. Oh, yeah, this show is thematic for a very skewed and confused and weird. And I don't think they were until the ending until that last episode, because now I'm not sure what I'm meant to think. It just feels like I don't have a clear through line to identify. I think it was safe to conclude that the show was about addiction. But I don't know that the ending makes sense anymore with that in mind. Yeah, we were very confused as to what the show was trying to say. I don't think, well, yeah, because I think the show kind of keeps changing its mind on like what it means.  Because it seems like all the main character vampires are incredibly lucid, but everybody else is just insane. I don't know why and if so, what does that say about them in terms of moral culpability or anything like that? It had a lot to say on death that seemed pretty good. Like that that seemed fine. It was relatively undamaged, but the the addiction stuff was all over the place. Well, we talk about Bly Manor and how great it is to have mechanics explored and explained for the establishment of stakes and understanding what's happening and the rules. And this this kind of was a failure in that regard in a lot of senses where up until the end, they did a pretty good job explaining a lot of the mechanics of vampirism and whatnot. And then at the end, it all just sort of falls apart and they don't. I would go as far as saying they spent like half an hour teaching someone exactly what it means to be a vampire.  And it was very confusing to watch people like become vampires and they're ravenous. They just want to eat and drink, you know, blood and stuff. But then near the end, they're like, you know what? We're bad people. We should die. You're like, oh, I don't. I think that's what I don't even know if that's what they were going for. That's the thing. It's so just open and unexplained and weird and unbelievable. I don't even know what they were trying to say. Didn't Mola say that only a blind man was some of the best television you've ever seen? Yes, it is. Yeah, it is. Blind man is insanely good. I yeah, we needless to say we were very disappointed. Yeah, the characters get hurt significantly. A lot of the characters are damaged in the final finale. There is. Well, I guess that's because we did really like this show up until that point. There was a character in the show who was in it for not until the end. And his story is complete from beginning to end. It's done. And it's it's really fantastic. And he is safe. He's safe. That character is safe from the finale. So so but but he's kind of the only one when I think about everybody else. Their ending was really disappointing. Confusing that there was one character who we were all super happy about. Like he was he was just a cool dude and he got a really unceremonious ending. And it's not like everyone almost. I was going to say two of the best characters. There's no need to really this is the spoilers. So like it's it's a guy who is fighting to get his place on this island. Everyone's always hated him. And he's only ever done the best he can for the people of the island and his son. And in the finale, he's trying to burn down the last house.  Like he he circles around the whole house and ends up right next to this giant group as if like he's like, OK. And then he gets shot because, of course, and he shot by the most reprehensible character in the whole series. Well, wait, hold on. So he got shot because two characters made the smart decision to get some guns, but then dropped them after they were getting chased by some vampires. They dropped the guns and then that guy they just left them. Yeah. Yeah, they got them there for them to use against our protagonists, two of them, which is killed with that gun. Yeah, it's bizarre.   To explain that a little bit more cleanly, right? Like the two characters running away from monsters, they have a gun.  And then they slip for reasons. We don't need to go over that. And the gun is obviously dropped right next to him. And then they see three more people coming at them, many, many, many meters away. And they decide to sprint off and leave the gun on the floor, which is just the last thing I think you would do when you're desperate to survive. You have a gun, you don't leave the gun. And that would be bad enough, except that gun is then picked up by a bad guy who then ends up. Yeah, who isn't a bad guy who, despite the show, wanting to tell us he gets redeemed is not at all redeemed. No. Well, the problem, yeah. Two of the best characters are casually killed by that gun. Just just just done so. And their endings are shite. Well, and and and their endings being baptised into other characters, endings being like the first character who gets shot hard. There was a moment in the finale where there was something really cool that happened where it was basically all of the people were there. And the the guy who was kind of responsible for causing all of this realized that he made a mistake. And then he'd like open the doors to the church and everybody's welcome here. And we're like, oh, are they going to do a thing where it's like they split up? Who wants to be in the more like the good guy side versus the really evil side? But then the person gets shot and then they just burn down the church. It's like, oh, I guess you just give it up. Like, yeah, that was that was weird. How they started to set up that good, bad vampire thing. And then like 10 seconds later, it's just done and nothing becomes. Yeah, exactly. Very it's just like, I know we're just sort of casually sort of explaining things. And you might. Yeah, you are going to lack a lot of context if you haven't seen the show for why a lot of this stuff is frustrating and doesn't make sense and is horrible. But like everyone in that call was just so deflated after six great episodes, you get to the end and you just.  I mean, a clear example like this. This is kind of the worst character, not the like she's basically the villainous character right at the end when all of the vampires are like, yeah, I guess I'll die now. She goes to the beach to watch the sunrise.  If I can dig a hole, I can survive. And it's just like, what are we? Didn't know why didn't you think of this earlier? You did it now. And then and then when the sun rises, she's screaming in agony. And it's like, so she's screaming and everybody else is just calmly burning to death. Yeah, what is going on? They basically want to give you the satisfaction that the villain character screams as the sun burns here as a vampire. But all of the other vampires on the island just they're standing. They're singing or they're sitting and they peacefully perish. Yeah, they piece.  And it's just like, yeah, everyone died like that show. Don't convince me. Including including the kids on the island. Yeah, like there's no attention paid to them at all. Yeah, they're yeah. If you were looking for a show where the bad characters get punished and the good characters are like at least the die heroically or they're spared a terrible fate, this ain't the show for you. It's insanely unsatisfying. Everyone good and evil.  And it's confusing. It's very confused. And then all the ending, the specific ending line. Man, I don't know. I don't get it. Yeah, we will. Yeah. Should we explain that? The healing properties of the vampire stuff make it so that a lot of people on the islands are fixed of their blue vision or bad backs. You know, unbeknownst to most unbeknownst to basically everybody on the island inside of the communion line, there's vampire blood, which is which is given to them in race amounts during every mass, because this is a Catholic mass on the church. And so slowly, everyone starts to get healed and everyone starts to get better, get younger. And so one of the there's a character. I'll go ahead. There's a girl who is crippled and she because she has been attending mass constantly.  Unbeknownst to her, she is cured of her crippledness, crippled crepality, and she can now walk and everyone's amazed. This is the big, amazing miracle that really starts to get people to go. Whoa, that's crazy. And for most I would say half the show, she can now walk.  It's a big deal.  Our two survivors, that's right, our two survivors. They're on a boat overlooking the burning remnants of the island. And she turns to this other character and says, I can't feel my legs and and she smiles. Credits and she smiles, which is bizarre, because I would not be thrilled about that. That means she's not a vampire, right? That's why so I think that's what they're going for, is that the curse is done, that the vampire's influence is over, that blah, blah, blah. But it's just like I can't use my legs anymore. Woohoo. You're like, OK. Because it seems like as far as we know in trace amounts, it seems like the vampire stuff is kind of great. Yeah, there's no, they don't really explain a drawback to it. Yeah, there is no drawback. If you just take a little at a time here and there, like even her, she had a little sip, a little taste every day at communion, at mass. And her paralysis was cured. Yeah. There doesn't seem to be any negatives whatsoever to trace amounts of vampire blood. Another huge problem is like the thematic element, right? And in moderation, a lot of the things that are incredibly addictive, but also dangerous, they're fine. Yeah, they have they have the lines about alcohol, is it good or evil?  It's you and what you do with it and stuff like that. So that's that's hard enough to square away that, like, why couldn't you just regularly drink bits of vampire blood? What is what is the show? I would want to, yeah, and you've also got you might you be thinking to yourself again, OK, but at least we know being a vampire is bad. And it's like, well, not really. We have several vampires in the show. Many of them refuse to eat people. They're like, no, I won't. I can't do that.   So what's the idea of an ethical vampire? And so what is what is wrong with with being a vampire at that point? And you're like, well, it's gross. I don't know.  And yeah, there's a line at one point from one of the main characters toward the end saying, like, you know, when our time is done, it's done. As if to imply, like, you shouldn't be trying to get more time by being a vampire, you should accept death.  I'm really. Someone said, I think they're just saying the main vampire dies and the vampire blood stops working. Like, yeah, no, I get it.  You're like, OK. And a happy moment. If that's what I mean. I don't think they if we knew that having any vampire blood in your system was horrifically bad and it'll lead to horrible things, I could maybe understand it. But I'm just sitting here like, it wasn't that bad. It seems to be nothing but a positive. Like I said, if I was in that universe, man, I'll take a sip every day. Thanks. So, um, wait, so that's great.  Like if you have a little bit of it, I'm yeah, I'm sure. Unless you die, in which case, then you turn into a vampire. That that's probably the concern, right?     Drink. I'll just go buy blood bags or drink. Exactly. Pigs, blood cows, blood. They make it clear you can survive on that as a vampire in this universe. So I don't know, man. And they didn't explore that at all.  Like, OK, everyone on the island, a hundred people as far as over a hundred people, as far as we know, they're just like, yeah, I'll die for it. Not just I'll just die.  Yeah. Despite the fact that some of us made the conscious decision to become vampires anyway, basically, some of us didn't. Yeah. And some of them were super devout, but apparently only the evil lady was the only one who wanted to find a way to survive, but none of them came up with a way of just digging like nobody thought of that. It is. We didn't have a shovel on the island, I'm afraid. It ain't good. Right. So if I if if I am also getting it from what you guys are saying, everyone acted intelligently until the last episode. Am I getting that right? Pretty much. Yeah, for the most part. Yeah, I'd say for the most part. There's some bits and bobs throughout the show, please. Yeah, I was pretty pleased. Yeah. But oh, you get some great, like, conversations throughout the season, loads of awesome stories and histories of particular characters, whole stories we're seeing. There'll be episodes one through five. It's like, yeah. Yeah. And episode five's ending is haunting, to say the least. Oh, yeah. They did it quite well as they often do with episode five and so this is the thing. We come to the end of all of this. Fringy rags, do you recommend the show? I'm not sure. That's the thing. As good as those first six episodes were and don't let that be understated. Those are some no, no, really good, amazing episodes.  Not time isn't wasted, but Mike, Mike certainly takes his time to establish everything. But, man, that's the thing. If the ending is the payoff to all this stuff. Oh, it's tough. It is really it is a sour taste when you complete it. Mm hmm. Yeah, I don't know. I if I said to somebody, yes, stop after five, but they'd probably say, no, I want to see how it ends because that's what we wanted to do. I think I would recommend it. It does just slip over. I think it's worth seeing because the craft is top notch for a lot of aspects. Just that just be warned that last episode is coming. I'm going to get you. Yeah, stop. Yeah, if you're the person who could stop, stop at the end of six and just sort of imagine it turned out how you wanted it. It's bad. Well, that's that, I guess. I've got it. I got it. OK, so a head cannon new episode for episode six. Blade comes. No, six is great. Yeah, but blade comes, kills them all the ends. I would have preferred that. No, I'll take it over the cannon ending. I mean, is it better than the cannon ending? I guess I think you could do better. I think you can do better than that. Oh, you changed the ending, Rags, if it was you, if it was me, I would I would go with something safe that plays better into the thematics. It really can't be understated how how funky the thematics are after the end of that last episode, like it's really bizarre. Like what do you mean by thematics? The theme of the show of the show. OK, so what would you what do you get from the theme of the show then? After the seventh episode, I don't know. That's the thing before let's ignore the what was it? What was your impression for the first six episodes? And on the first six episodes, I think, bringing sort of alluded to it, but it's kind of like addiction, in a sense, that there is a bad part of you that you need to control and you can't let take over you. And so addiction plays into that where you can't let things kind of ruin you like there's an there's an internal battle inside of you that you have to fight for and and win, essentially. Well, it's really, really good and would be wonderful. That's the thing. It's it's it seems as if it was set up perfectly for like a vampire. Yeah, vampire stories lend themselves where you have a good and bad vampires. Yeah, absolutely. The bad vampires succumb to their bloodlust and they do the easy thing and they just hunt and go on the prowl for blood. And the good vampires are like, no, it's not the right thing to do. People suffer and I'm not going to do that to other people. So I'm going to be a good vampire. And there you go. And so maybe the good vampires, they're the ones who survive because the bad ones get burnt up because of something they do or they get to live on the island as a vampire place and you get to have the priest. Monsignor, who gets to keep. Yeah, he gets to be like the van, the guy in charge of the vampires or he gets to be their their pastor, lead them to sell. Yes, especially because he kind of changes his tune at the end because he seems what's along with the meetings like this. It's all set. You're all good to go. And because, funnily enough, in this vampire thing, they don't do the garlic stuff crosses fangs even. They just sort of bite. We don't have reflections or invitations. They leave out a lot of, you know, which is fine, by the way, very blood related. Yeah, they try to keep it in terms of it's all about blood stuff. They have boosted healing, but they don't have any kind of boosted strength. Everyone, all the vampires are of the same strength they had previously, which I thought was interesting as well. So it's like, OK, they basically just people with blood lust. And that's why you're like, oh, I see you stripped away a lot of the vampire stuff to make it very much about addiction. Then like, that's clearly the point. Yeah, like nothing about garlic or crosses stuff. It's stuff you could believe. Really? Yeah. Every blood related stuff. The kind of thing where if you had like special weirdtism blood, you could believe that that would be a result. Kind of sounds like they ran out of money in the show. It's supposed to go for another one or two episodes.   But so I think like if the addiction thing was their angle, maybe like them realizing that they were doing a bad thing and they and they all killed themselves. Maybe that was the guy it was going for, but it was executed. Maybe that's what he was going for. But it just doesn't work. None of it works because they're good vampires who moderates. Yeah, there's clearly good vampires. Some of them feel remorse for bad things that they've done. Some of them are just they're just like basically none of them kind of deserve death. It's very they're like downright evil ones. If some of them are attacked and killed and turned into a vampire to then decide, I will not feed on people. Just they've done nothing possibly wrong.   That is weird. It's like there's no nuance. Like it's I'm cursed, so I have to kill myself. It became something like that. I think that's what they're going for. But but I think that's a problem when it comes to the theme of addiction. Yeah, yeah, like what you said and yeah, I have an addiction. Kill myself. Yeah, exactly. And I got to assume that's not what they actually mean. But the problem is like killing the addiction means destroying you. Like, is that is that meant to be? Well, no, see, like because the speech to the end, it's like, we'll see that there is no self right. So you can get rid of that. Like, yeah, but you are ceasing to exist like at that point. The collective that represents you is now gone. And yeah, that's the thing that you could have had. If you balance it, Peta, because now we've made it so that they became a vampire, they needed to die. And is being a vampire giving into addiction? Or is that just because I thought it was not being the vampire because you can become a vampire. I guess that plays into addiction where it might not be of your choice in a sense, but it's still kind of wonky in that regard. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it'll be out whenever our recordings and stuff on it. It'll be a while. We got to do Bly first. But like, I've not got a lot of passion for Midnight Mass. I think it was murdered in that last episode. Yeah. Because it was all the vampire stuff. It just permeates back through all the older episodes where I know that if I rewatch them, I'm going to be frustrated about thinking about what kind of message they're trying to go for.   And you're like, well, they're out. You're like, OK. No ending for their story, really. Yep. Um, yeah, that's that, I suppose. Is that we? Yeah, that's that's that's all I care to. So that's all that I care to really say, honestly. I think I've just I'm just kind of over it in a way. As a kind of going, what a shame. Theos in chat as well. And you just said, like, there's a lot of stuff throughout the show of how to healthily and unhealthily engage with, like, faith and religious institutions and how they can manipulate the people or huge religious angle to this. Yeah, and I've seen different people say I checked the subreddit saying like they loved it because of how anti-religion the show is. And I honestly didn't get that myself. Yeah, I didn't get an anti-religious vibe. Just don't be a it's it's it's pretty basic stuff, really.  The show basically says like having faith in God and stuff doesn't make you a good person. That seems to be the message I got and that you can have like the crazy evil ones and then the genuinely good people who are trying to do the best they can. And they find a lot of, you know, path and meaning through God and stuff, which I'm fine with. I I thought a lot of it was respectful of it. And as we had with rags, kept like pointing out different things, how they work with different like ceremonies. Oh, yeah, they do a really good job with the because I used to be Catholic when I was young. And they do a lot of work to make sure that a lot of the Catholic ceremonies and things are accurate with the terminology and the liturgical times of the year and stuff like that. It was like, like you could tell what's going to happen next by, oh, it's Ash Wednesday. That means that Lent is coming. Oh, OK, that's done. OK, it's going to be Easter. Like, OK, you know, then you could you could tell. There were like three or four times where rags would say a word and then they would say it in the show. It was uncanny. Like, you'd be like, oh, this celebration is this or this event is this. They're wearing this. And then the character in the show would say, I mean, like. So, yeah, as far as I know, they paid some decent respect to how everything works.  And so, yeah, yeah, it was it was that was that was part of the show that I really enjoyed was the characters. You know, some characters treating that differently and how the priest who's the other man, senior, who's a central character is a really likable guy. And he's a very, you know, he's very approachable, very down to earth. And I enjoy his I guess we can talk about it. I guess we can say it almost goes without saying because it's a Mike Flanagan production, but like the acting was across the board stellar. Yeah, there was some scenes that everyone was fantastic to say we were silent would be an understatement. We were just staring and listening. Very impressive cast once again. So I don't know what's next. I don't know what the reviews will be over the next week or so as people watch it and finish it up. But my hopes are not high. Yeah, obviously, we hope people criticize it for how it folds back on itself or it does this that the other. But like, I have a feeling that we're going to see a lot of it was boring. Which would be like, oh, well, that's fine, I guess. But yeah, is that that, I suppose? Because the thing is, we're probably not going to talk about Midnight Mass again, other than in passing. Yeah, it'll be in passing. What's interesting is that by the time our recording of it comes out, it's possible that we we've referred to by then the ending of Midnight Mass many, many, many times and you'll see us doing real time. It'll be weird for an audience to know exactly how we feel about the show and then to watch it all happen when it first happened. We were quiet most of it. It was only until the end that we were like, right, OK, we have things to say. Will you do a mini for Midnight Mass? Yes, but it won't be out for a long time. We got loads of other stuff coming like the Resident Evil arc. That's on the way. Do you guys see the trailer? I did. Yeah. I like that trailer. That was really cool. We get more. Did you see the trailer? Not yet. Useless. Chad, did you see the trailer? Yes, it was a triumph. And I particularly liked the the Resident Evil in the trailer and the reactions that amazing. Very. Also, yeah, I was going to say, like, I've got the Mario stuff back on. So no more Midnight Mass spoilers, everybody. OK. Go check it out for yourselves. Have fun, hopefully. All right. So I guess that brings us to the main event. Is the reason why you all showed up? Yes. Wait, what was that? Let's watch the trailer. Let's watch the trailer. That's the main event, right? I mean, we could watch the trailer for EFAP. It's 11 minutes, though, so it's quite long, you know. Oh, 11 minutes. Yes, quite long. Is it better than what we're going to watch? Actually, I'm excited to watch whatever we're watching today. Oh, that's that's a no from me. Yeah, me too. That's a no from Rick. Sorry, guys. No from me. That is a no from me. I would like to carry on with our EFAP stuff. However, maybe we could end with that. We could wrap up with it and we could put the links in there. And it is also on the ruler. So because it is a really nice trailer. I'm I'm quite excited to see the Resident Evil EFAP movies come out. All right, I'll watch it on my own time. But you know what this means, Mola? I expect a I don't know what we call our historical. Do we call it War Movies Arc? Even though I don't see it. War Movies Arc, I expect a trailer for that. Then I'm waiting. Well, we we've got to record another. Is it we're on nine? We've got to record another three. Don't we have like another 20 playing? No, no, we've got to record another three to complete this arc. And then we will start a new one and we can all decide on exactly what we want it to be. And because 12 movies means a year's arc, you know? One per month. And then we'll have them go in and record another 12 within the year and it'll just be a constant arc. It'll be wonderful. So, yeah, that's going to be fun when that comes out, too. Anyway, you know, we talked about Black Widow all those years ago. And we never it has been many years now. It's correct. Yes, we never covered any like videos talking about how great Black Widow was. And, you know, videos were made, guys. Excellent. Videos were made about how good it is. And so you think of yourselves like, why would they do that? Why would why would why would anyone do that? You know, because they're bad at their jobs. No, because opinions are OK, rags. You racist. Jesus, Hitler was fine. Did Hitler like Black Widow? Hitler had opinions and if all opinions are valid. Yeah, about movies, rags, not about all things.  Well, I guess I can watch this watch together here. I provided a link on it. Well, you can jump right in. Oh, very exciting. It's an old friend. Art one. It's an old friend of the channel. Cinema wins, everybody. Oh, and they're going to tell us about all of the victories, cinematic victories in Black Widow. And yeah, he made two parts. That's how thorough he had to be. Yes. Yes. Wow. It wasn't because it like is better for the algorithm. And thus we'll get him more clicks, views and money and stuff. It's because he couldn't possibly fit 30 minutes into one video. It had to be 15 apiece. That's how it works.  I don't know about you, but technically it's illegal to have any videos longer than 15 minutes.  And he's managed to do this in just the 30 minutes. That's way less than the movie. Nice. Amazing. It's OK as long as it's less than the runtime of the of the thing you're you're covering. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, if it's one minute over, then it's then it's horrible. But if it's like, you know, 30 seconds under the runtime, then it's fine. Mm hmm. Um, so I'm hoping everyone has seen Black Widow in chat. You guys love that movie. I've heard. We are going to give a different perspective on it. We think it's less good, like, not great. It's one of the best MCU movies, of course, but it's not, you know, it's a wibbly wobbly. That's true. That that accolade is reserved for Shang-Chi. I wasn't even concluding that, because that's the triumph movie. That's top tier, like, yeah, well, I mean, Black Widow is a triumph of its own kind. What's the first movie with a female lead, which is pretty cool? That's right. She's the first. I think it's the first movie with a woman in it. Yeah, I just woman flat. Yeah, I agree. Isn't isn't isn't Black Widow like the first woman? She might be the first woman. Might be the first woman. That's very true. I don't recall ever seeing one before Black Widow. And I will say, as the first woman, Scarlett Johansson, it's like quite a start. Really ladies, I just want to say the bar has been set really high. I don't know if a lot of I don't know if most of you can live up to that. But well, you know, do your best. Yeah, that's what I devil's advocate here. I have to say, I don't think she has looked as good as she did in Iron Man 2. Like that was her peak, right?  OK, she's she's had. I think she's had two kids since then or something. I'm not sure. So she's gone through it. I mean, you know, just her hairstyle, even her hairstyle, like she had the best hairstyle out of all the incarnations of Black Widow in the first Iron Man. And then they do some weird things like the arc of the worst haircut she had was the one where she was in I think it was Winter Soldier. It was the flat one that was just stroked on the sides. It's like, man, that's a hot type right there. Yeah, that style is not doing anything for this guy. I'm sorry. I disagree. Wait, what's your favorite one? Winter Soldier, frankly, wrong. Um, I honestly, it could be. It could be a toss up between like, I think, I think for me, the toss up is Iron Man 2 with the soldier and Civil War. I think that's the idea. I really like her Iron Man 2 hair. I'm not a fan of either of the Avengers hair. It's just not the styling. No, not. Yeah, I think that Iron Man 2 was her best iteration, at least physically, obviously. She gets better character moments later on. But I like the kind of the character she's the lighter on. Probably I'm guessing Avengers is probably your best. I mean, she's really, really good on point character in the first Avengers. Both Avengers movies do a lot of work for her. Yeah. Winter Soldier is probably good for her, too. Civil War. Do we agree that the blonde Black Widow is the worst hair for her? Do you mean the Elena? Oh, you told me about Infinity War. I thought that's what he meant, too. The blonde Black Widow, Elena. She was blonde there for a bit. And then she had, there's that one time where she had like dark roots and then that went blonde halfway down. I forget what that was for. That was Endgame. That was Endgame. Endgame, OK. Well, not all of Endgame, but yeah. Um, what an interesting start to this conversation. Well, you know, all the comments are going to be about how all we do is we objectify here and we talk about the best one must just be the one with like the one that is the prettiest. We objectify here. Even though we literally just said that Iron Man, too, she's like not a character at all, basically. Hey, she's the femme fatale. That's about it. Alrighty, well, you know what? I guess is everyone ready? I mean, anything else we should say? Just we also learned that Fringy has terrible taste in hairstyles. Damn, Fringy, you going to defend yourself or are you just going to leave that there? Well, what does it matter? Who cares? I care for you. That's what someone says when they know they're wrong. Yeah, it's fine. We'll just we'll just continue. It's OK. All right. I'm sorry, Fringy. Don't worry, Fringy. I still love you, but hairstyle. Yeah. Hey, look, all right. I just I just think it I think I think it's neat. That's all. A passionate defense. All right, citizens, what have you got for us? What did you bring? Let's see what's up. Everything great about Black Widow is sponsored by the Curiosity Stream Nebula Bundle, and if you want to see both part one and part two right now, go to the link in the description and sign up for Curiosity Stream and get a Nebula for free. Well, we we we got them because we're in the future. We didn't need no Curiosity Stream. Anything great about Black Widow? No, just the just the normally the holy noises that's like. All right, this is like worship this movie. Yeah, that's implication with with the offer with the.  I know that's what he know the funny part is he does that for every single thing, but this one is so unsuitable because that title card plays behind the sound on top of the sound of the children screaming at the beginning of the film, you remember human trafficking. So like this doesn't work at all. Watch that again.  My ears. I didn't notice the screaming. What were you thinking? You didn't have to use the audio from the film. You could have put any no audio. Just have to wire things. So take the soundtrack that would have been a beat in there. You could have used you just kept the children screaming. Why did you do that? You know, you can like I think it's a is it you in Premiere where you just like you ungroup the track from the.   Man, which is obviously what you do instead of having screaming children over your choir music in your intro. Before we continue, I just want to have a I don't know, a macro kind of observation on the cinema wins style. I don't get to comment too much on him and and look, of course, critiquing his videos. Nothing gets impersonal. He's probably a really nice guy in person, stuff like that. I just I find it interesting. His his kind of approach to, you know, looking at films because I can kind of get the idea of trying to be positive about stuff. And you can you can still find good things in terrible films and give it credit where it does good, you know, actual good things. But what cinnamon seems to do is he really reaches and he picks is a mega-reacher. He's just like cinema sense. He's just the reverse. Yeah, it's like it's a compensation. It's like it's like he feels like there's too much negativity. So we just overcompensates positivity and which is there's something that grabs that it's called toxic positivity. It's when you pretend everything's awesome when it's all being wrong. Well, I just prefer to think of it as like, you know, there are things that aren't like good, right? And that's that's fine.  And you can totally do that. And you don't have to make videos where like you you kind of just make these really bizarre points to defend something. It's OK to like thing. Well, nobody's coming. Nobody's coming. I would have. Yeah, I don't have no issue. With someone who wants to approach things and look for the legitimately good elements of even even in terrible films. And so if he points out legitimately good parts of Black Widow, I'm sure it would have no objection at all. It's just when he points out things that are wrong or just reaches and just bizarre things like that's that's rather odd. A safe place to start for all these usually the acting for these sorts of movies. You're like, the acting is probably going to be so you can play. Yeah, great. Um, cinematography might be something. Soundtrack might be something. Story is going to get tough to praise because like Black Widow, especially this is a movie where basically everything falls apart. But I understand the idea of you. Maybe you could try. I've done it for TFA. Those TFA videos, like there's lots of sections about the things I thought that JJ did well, especially in when Ray is first introduced. There's like a lot of stuff in there.  Too bad I was in a terrible movie, but the the call back to the whistling at the end where it's over the grave. That's like that was really well done. Actually, I felt something actually myself. I saw it in the live chat when I was premiering. A lot of people saying cringe, lame, like about that. I was like, so like having this whistle the go, I think it's like a one tone and then two tones from Yeah, Natasha. And, you know, they do it to each other as kids. They do it to each other as adults. And then you only hear the half of it at the grave site because it's you know, it's only Yelena's half left. And I was like, that's kind of kind of sad.  But like it's, you know, I think that's weird. You could compliment that little good things can be in bad movies, people. Yeah, I guess the problem is, though, is that this attitude doesn't exactly foster any desire to improve. At your craft. But yeah, man, it's all good. If all if all our art is of equal value and there's it's all just great, then. What an admission of horrific. Well, yeah, because what I think that's the problem is, it's like a lot of people, it's a really great example of cognitive dissonance, where you like you will accept that you need to practice writing to get good at writing. You will accept that you need to read books on writing to learn about writing, except authorities on writing, try to. Yeah, and that there are these rules that you have to follow. But all that matters is expression, and it doesn't really matter like how it turns out you've expressed yourself and you've done that. And so it's all it's all it's all great and good. It's weird. It's kind of this bizarre state of like, I recognize that that there is some level of this works and this doesn't and that there's a way to improve. But also everything that everybody does has like value that is somewhat equivalent. And there is no such thing as like good or bad when it comes to story weird. And I think that it can directly influence better movies. Like I after your whole DC arc, we saw an extremely extremely valid example of that between Man of Steel and Batman versus Superman. I mean, Batman versus Superman still has a ton of problems. But I think the fact that they were that people responded so drastically about the just the collateral damage and the destruction in the first film. And that became basically the inciting incident of the Batman versus Superman, where Batman was directly the effect of Superman's carnage. And that actually made for a much more interesting film than if they just had came with something else. They actually respond, you know, criticism and inspired a new story. So I think that was pretty cool, actually, to see that that that responsiveness from, you know, audience critique. I think you've raised something that's interesting, that's kind of like an important caveat is you can always ignore people's criticism, like they might be wrong. They might actually just be totally wrong and what what you did works and their criticism is bad. Criticism can be bad. Like it can just be wrong or the priorities offer it's just something they didn't like and they can't really substantiate it with something that's in the film. Well, even Zach was like, oh, yeah, there should be a lot of people dying, actually, in that opening. Oh, yeah, that's that's the thing, right? If a lot of people are responding a certain way, then something's happening there that probably worth thinking about. But like criticism can be super valuable. I don't I don't like the idea of just saying, well, no, it's like criticism bad, you know, having positive opinions is cool.  It always comes back to that. It's good that it happened so early, I guess, in this whole the the e-faps history and stuff. But that conversation was just right, where a point of praise was the that Holdo had good reason not to tell Poe the plan. When you like discuss it down to the nuts and bolts and you finally get him in a position where he's like, oh, actually, yeah, that didn't make sense. Like, so now that it was a point of praise, now that the references aren't the same as you thought they were, what is it? Is it a point of flaw? And you can see like the dot, dot, dot, like. And I feel the same way for someone like CinemaSense. If you were in the call and whatever he's going to say in this video, I'm sure he's going to praise a piece of the writing in some way that will lack a key piece of information that will shatter that through line. And I just wonder how he'd reconcile it. And is it as simple as you don't like ignore that part? That's yeah, it's like at that point, it's like, if I have to ignore components of the story to lack the story, then maybe there's a problem here. And at that point, everything is on the same level because you can just take whatever you want from anything. It doesn't matter what's actually there. You can take whatever you want from any story. That's that's totally fine. Because, of course, whatever you get out of a story up to you and there are certain stories that can have something that means more to you because of history or anything like that. That's totally fine. But then you make a video called Everything Great About Black Widow, you know? Part one, even children's screaming at the beginning. It's just a different plane. There's I remember YMS said something along. I just remember it because it's like, yeah, it's kind of epitomized that it was something like if you don't like that piece of criticism, then like maybe or something like you should change your response from no, this movie is actually really good to. Well, I liked it. It's like there is a difference between these two statements. I think everybody can appreciate that there's a difference between the two statements. Like how many times have you had a conversation where someone says, I know it's not good, but I like it? Like people are absolutely aware of that of like, yeah, it has merit. But when you say something you like versus something is good, it feels like the difference between saying something I see and something we see. And you're like, whoa, you just included me now. I don't I don't agree. I guess, yeah. I think that is YouTube creators. We could all agree that have we not gotten criticism and any critical comments over the past however many years we've been doing all this, we would have been worse off. Like I've definitely improved due to some of very, very harsh criticism I've gotten over the years, whether it's like, you know, audio quality or editing or not making something clear enough or having, you know, jarring, you know, audio cues or something like that. Or just, you know, writing or noticing mistakes. I've I've definitely improved because of some criticism.  But other criticism, if it has a grain of truth, I definitely take it to heart and try to improve next time. Identifying the difference in those two is also difficult sometimes. Because, yeah.  But the one percent is like, oh, God, he's kind of right. And those are the worst. Those are those are so painful. But at the same time, you just you just got to kind of, OK, well, I'll do better next time. Well, it's the whole thing of is it detrimental to you? Like if somebody very harshly says something that's true, you are detrimental yourself if you are like, well, you were harsh. So go away. I'm not listening to that, especially if you recognize it to be true. Yeah, benefits from taking advice that is correct, even if it's harsh and then improving the work like that's beneficial. I guess it would be preferable if everybody was nicer about it.  You just said it would be preferable if I was nice about it. I think that just explains the origin of this channel. Like the cinema wins, I mean, like, isn't it nice when people are positive? And it's like, I feel like, you know, it should be nice when people can just be honest and nice. That's entirely possible. And I don't. Well, this is this is the interesting point about this, because some people take any type of criticism, regardless of how it's delivered, even if it's delivered constructively, in good faith, as meanness, that's just cruelty in pointing out the negative things in my work and stuff. Because, yeah, people can get super defensive, especially about, you know, their own works and stuff. At that point, it's like, why are you sharing it with me? You just want me to say that it's great. Awesome. Good job. Fantastic. Good for you.  Because it actually is more of an indictment on you if in response to criticism, you get really pissed off, like, then it is to just be like, OK, that's that's I'll take that into account. And of course, you can disregard it because it might just be criticism. Power is in your hands. All right. How you want to criticize is more important than how the criticism is delivered to you. This is true, but let's expand a little bit on it because there's some more nuance to this discussion that I think is worth acknowledging. When I was young, I wanted to be a comic book artist. And I would draw all the time. That was like my thing. If you saw me in school sitting at a desk, I was drawing. I thought I was supposed to be doing work in school. I was drawing. Yeah. And I was super heroes. And and I'm a storyteller. I'm an orphan now, right? But the way I express my stories when I was younger is I would draw them instead of write them because I was actually really bad at English. And so I didn't read a lot, but so I would draw. And I actually started to get pretty good. But I mean, compared to a professional when I was young, I was a large difference. I eventually got to a professional standard. But OK, so when I was trying to get better at drawing, I actually put a lot of my own self-worth in my this talent. This is I was a large identifying feature about who I was. Being young, I took criticism of my art very personally. And and I would get really, really depressed when people pointed out the legitimate flaws. And I think it was because I kind of knew the flaws. I was always comparing my artwork to the comic books I was reading. And I could see the difference. And so no one really needed to point it out for me to be able to know that I still have a long way to go. But praise of my work, even though it was still very imperfect, was the biggest motivational boost for me. That that would get me enthused or get me one to, you know, draw more and get better at it. But when people would just be an A-hole, well, this is the thing that I because I would perceive criticism as being this because I was young and immature. That was my own failing, but that was the reality of how I responded. And so with sometimes when people pointed out flaws in my work, that depressed me and it would have the negative effect on me getting better at it because it would make me not want to do it. And so it's a difficult balance because where I was, I was too immature to be able to take criticism properly again. That was my own failing because I was young, but it kind of depends on what you want to achieve when you're trying to give feedback and also who you're dealing with as well. Like, for instance, professional YouTube creators, I think, should be mature enough to be able to take some constructive criticism because they're professionals. And this is very different to, say, a young person trying to make YouTube videos and stuff like that. Because I see young people trying to make videos. My nephew is actually one of them. And when he tries to make something, I'm not going to hold him to the same standard. I say, I would with a video from a YouTube who does this professionally and say, this is garbage. I'd say, no, this you've got your show. It's a really good effort here. I could see some really great promise in what you're doing here and there. And it's a completely different mindset of approach where this person I know is wanting to achieve something, the encouragement, so I'm going to focus on things that are doing great, you know, well, things that I can build up on and build positivity inside. It's just I think it's an interesting discussion to look at both sides, I guess, of the of the criticism tree, if that makes sense. Yeah, I guess the have you seen what you mean? Both sides of the criticism coin. Yeah, coin. I think I was going for that. Because trees have I guess tree has two sides.  Have you seen Whiplash Shad out of curiosity? No, you thought it was a movie, isn't it? Yeah, so that's that's a really great movie. And it's there is a part of that film that is about the idea of the film is basically kind of about what does it take to be basically the best at any particular creative skill? And one of the characters I don't want to I've seen ads about this. Yeah, I've seen a trailer for this film. You're very much a drummer in the world. OK, yeah, yeah, that's that's the one. So I don't want to spoil too much. There's there is a character who has a perspective on what it takes to basically create the best player in the world. And he always refers to Charlie Parker as a jazz player. And he got a symbol thrown at his head when he performed with a group like it didn't hit him, but he got a symbol thrown at him. And and then he came back later on and basically became like one of the greatest jazz players ever. And the logic that he had is that there is no that that somebody like that could never be discouraged, no matter how harsh the criticism is. That's an interesting thought. But there probably are a lot of people who could be really great to would actually be discouraged from incredibly negative scathing criticism. And so, yeah, I would be inclined to agree that not everybody is going to the same approach is not going to work with everybody. You can't be harsh with certain people who could be incredibly talented, who could be discouraged by being harshly berated. Yeah, I think tact is very important when it comes to criticism. Tact is important. It's just also to be important to be clear on your criticism and not just label it as crap. Like that doesn't help anybody just say, OK, your audio level is wrong. The section isn't clear, you know, the visuals in this part of the video don't correspond to what you're talking about. Things like that you can work with or saying like all your voiceover doesn't have any gaps between it. So everything's a run on sentence. Things like that can be are like pretty objective and pretty useful when you go into when you get more esoteric. Like, you know, I wasn't I wasn't feeling a theme to this story. It's just like, you know, OK, we're supposed to do with that. But I actually have two stories. One about myself, one about a colleague. I'll try to be quick because I know we're barely past the title card here. But I have done a lot of music since I was a teenager, like electronic music and stuff like that. I've never done anything professionally. But I take it around, did some loops and stuff. Didn't really learn music theory, which is probably my biggest problem. But everybody I showed me music to people would like say, you know, friends and him is like, wow, it's really cool. I like it, you know, so and so. And people would actually ask for it. I'm like, that's neat. And one time I was in a car with this with a work colleague and I just without telling them anything, we're just driving. And I put my music CD into the the music player and they're like, what is this crap? And I'm like, oh, interesting because they they weren't they were. They if I would have said, hey, this is the music I made. They probably would have had a completely different response. Yeah. But, you know, having no context, I got their honest opinion. I'm like, oh, interesting. OK, that kind of hurts. But at least I got their honest opinion on it. You need something like that. You need someone who's willing to tell you the truth. And it's really interesting. I have a very like a polar opposite example. There was a local singer in my area that kind of friends, colleagues with. Are all local singers in your area? Local singles are in your area, too, by the way, local singles. Well, yeah, they know about all the iPads you won. And so they want to get in on some of that action. Exactly. But interestingly enough, she was like she would like to do local music at like the local keep on saying local the local church and stuff like that. And of course, you have a captive audience there. You know, they're they're all going to clap. They're all going to cheer. And she kind of went to her head and then she went on tour and it failed. So she didn't I think she some actual criticism or some guidance or at least constructive criticism would have helped her because I think she got the miss the kind of warped idea that she was, you know, incredible and everybody wanted to hear her and she did a tour and that didn't quite work out that well. Not to say she was necessarily bad, but had she had a more critical eye like a music producer go over her and say, oh, yeah, you know, you actually need to do this or this is not going to stand out or what people really want to hear is this, you know, for better or worse, that she probably would have done better on tour. But because she listened to an exceptionally uncritical and positive audience, she kind of went to her head and she was like, oh, well, I can be I can become a rock star. And so, you know, criticism could be harsh for sure. And it can actually be quite like Shad said, quite unmotivating, you know, demotivating, in fact. But at the same time, if you don't get that criticism, you may completely have a warped idea of how good your work actually is. I totally agree, totally agree. In fact, sorry, I have an experience that that mirrors right into that. Because you know how I was saying, I want to be a good artist. Well, eventually a professional cartoonist moved into my congregation in the church where I attended. So as a member of the same faith and and he was a professional cartoonist. His art was just amazing and seeing him work, how fast he could draw was crazy. And like he had these Conan panels that he did for for what he didn't do a professional because they were the submission panel.  And they offered him a job, but he turned it down because they didn't offer him Conan and he specifically wanted to come in. They're amazing. And so I remember showing him some of my work, right? About these superheroes I created and I was saying all the high big dreams are like, I want to send it to Stan Lee and make comic books of him and stuff. And and his response, right? I remember it was like, now, I don't upset you, but you really do you understand that if you send this in, it's not going to get accepted. Well, that was like a stab to the heart, right? But it was so true. It was absolutely true because my drawing wasn't even half as good as it needed to be to be accepted, because there is a professional standard that people are accepting. And as hard it is to hear, even the big wide-eyed dreamers need to know where they're at before they try and jump into something that they're not ready for. You've got to you've got to get past that Dunning Kruger part. You've got to I feel like Dunning Kruger is so true because it's happened to me so many times. You should probably explain to the people at home what the Dunning Kruger effect is.   But then and the reason why you're so confident is because you kind of don't know what good is yet. And then, you know, you start figuring it out when you learn a little bit more about the craft and your confidence poor, just craters. It goes down. It's it's a it's a steep drop. And it's it's this point where I think a lot of people quit. And then eventually you start to that's not it. How is that not it? It's similar. It is that you can go more broad with it. Essentially, the less you know about something, think of it as a spectrum in terms of those who don't know much about a topic, think they know a whole lot more than they do. And the people who actually do know a lot about a topic are also confident in how much they know and people who are kind of in the middle are generally the most accurate about how much they really know about something. It's it's like the lower the lower skill you have or the more less knowledge you have, the more the higher estimation of your knowledge and skill you have, basically. So the more you know about a topic, the more accurate your estimation of skill is. You tend to have to wait a long time. Yeah, yeah, basically. Yeah, like I have a I have a great example of that. I almost quit YouTube within my first few months, because my first scripted video I did, I did a doom retrospective. And I spent like weeks and weeks on it. It was like a 10 minute video. My God, it was like, Jesus, so long. And I got it up and I was really proud of it. And then I searched for my video and then I found a Hoy's video on doom, which was an hour long and looked like a movie documentary. His video on doom. And I was like, it's incredible. Yeah. And I was like, I can never do this. So I thought that like, well, I'm useless. I should just quit right now. But luckily instead of what I did is I was like, OK, let me try to improve. And I don't think I'm as good as a Hoy even today. But I've significantly improved since 2016. That's for sure. So you can take it one or two ways. You can look at like, oh, man, I'll never be that good. Or you can look at it like, hey, maybe I can try to improve. Why is this so good? What techniques does a Hoy use that I don't want to rip him off? But I could I could see, OK, his pacing. He'll have like meaningful silence.  And so all these things I took to heart. And eventually it got a lot better. And and I probably wouldn't have had a Hoy not existed. But just just on this note, then, just of course, I read it off. This is also the big danger about self-publishing because there is a lot of people who are self-publishing work that is really not up the level that you would ideally want when you're publishing anything. And it's a difficult thing to actually figure out where you are as a writer, if you're at the level adequate enough to be considered a professional. And one of the points of advice I have for people about trying to figure out if you're writing is up to standard and quality is I have a whole video on us. So people just watch that video. It's about when you're continually trying to learn the craft and you get to a point when you review your past works that you're not finding nearly as many problems as you were before is one. But the other way is still even if you can intending to self-publish. And this is actually what I was doing. Still submit your work to literary agents and publishers. And as soon as they start to show interest and ask for more samples, that's a clear sign that you're writing at a professional standard because no literary agent worth their salt is going to ask for any additional samples of your work or the whole manuscript. Unless the sample you set them was at a professional standard. They do not even look twice at things that have just, you know, low quality sub past standard. And as soon as you start to get, you know, interests and feet and people wanting to see more, that's a good sign for you to say, OK, I might be somewhere with my writing now. And that can give you a bit more confidence to go down the self-publishing route because it's wrong to say you should never self publish. I self published and have seen incredible results and and people have offered to represent me, you know, professionally. But now I say no, because I can do a better job for myself doing it my own on self publishing. And so it is a danger, though, because I have come across people like, all right, I got this book, I'm ready. I don't want to self publish. I'm like, OK, have you really looked at that?  And because one of the worst things that you do is put something out there, publish your first work and it being terrible, because that's a mark on you as your, you know, professional writing standard that's there forever. And it's like, that's a yeah. Yeah, I got this image up on screen that probably represents what the point of the Dunning-Kruger effect is pretty well. You start out with a little understanding and hyperconfidence. Then you hit that valley. We are like, oh, man, this is so much more complicated. I'm actually pretty sure that then you start climbing back up. But I mean, if only enough, the different graphs have different points to make in terms of where you end up at the end. A lot of the time, the idea is that even once you're like basically the best in your craft, you'll never be quite as confident as you were when you started, because you're kind of more aware that there's still probably stuff that you could be better at. This is the thing of you start really overconfident. Like even the best doctors in the world will probably suggest, hey, get a second opinion. Somebody else might have more experience in a specific field than I do. You know, they're mostly just less definitive on things because they know more about the caveats and like, hmm, actually, well, that's not quite the case. Well, you know, there's always that argument. But the idea is you just got to push through that valley of like doubt. This is kind of the approach with the Dark Souls boss. Oftentimes, the first to the first couple tries are your best ones. And then you slip into many bad ones and you're like, I'm not going to do it. And you start really learning and then you do it.  It's just the thing of as you learn, it becomes more daunting. But then as you keep doing it, you'll get better.  You get through that, that back to that kind of peak, kind of peak. No, not ever quite as high as it was at the beginning, I don't think. Well, then. Should we carry on with the video? Yeah, I think that was just a very elaborate way of saying we feel a lot of these film essayists should, I don't know, get their stuff before they put it in. So they always think that their feelings on a film are absolutely valid. Because that's just I was going to say that part of the problem with that is that they feel I've had people I've talked to in the past, YouTubers who have been like, I do not want anyone's opinion on this movie before I complete my whole video and release it, like not even get it proofed because it's so important. I'm not of that mind. It's so important to capture those initial human reaction as if this did this, this golden egg that cannot be touched whatsoever. And it needs to be captured. And by the way, I'm totally on board with the idea that like it's fun to compare, at least with initial reactions to like later on reactions. But the idea that like I couldn't possibly show you my videos, it would taint it, you're like, OK, that's weird. That is so bizarre. That's like writing a draft and never getting it reviewed or revised at all and just publish. I would tell him that's like, I was like, oh, I would tell him. I'm the opposite writer. When I finished watching a movie that I have things to say on, I want someone to talk to you about it, not a mirror. She was like, hmm, what did you think? Well, you know, these are the problems.  And then, you know, if two people like, yes, and two people like, no, I'd be like, oh, here we go. Now, I would think that your initial experience of some media would could definitely be tampered with if you watched a review and already have a label of this is a bad movie or this is a great movie. I think that could definitely alter your opinion of it. But once you've kind of like experienced it on your own, I definitely find value in seeing other people, other people's viewpoints on it because there's something you could completely miss at somebody else's point of notice. Yeah, I just I feel like the work gets improved when you have more eyes and more minds on it, at least in terms of input for you, because you'll never know what kind of stuff they can come up with that makes you go, oh, shit, that's true. I didn't even see that. Something like that, unknown, unknown. Well, absolutely.  You're always getting feedback on every single level because figuring out if things work, because when you're writing something to figure out, pacing can be a very instinctive thing, but you're going off your own perception and you need to try and find out, OK, that's how you feel. That's either flowing or you hope audiences react this way to how you've written it, but you're not going to know that until you test it out with a sample group. And sometimes the response is very different to your intention or what you what you expected. Well, here's something to think about, though. People be more in test screening and bringing people in. What's the cool with video games when they bring people into like play it play test while a test? Yeah, that's right. People criticize that because that's yielded bad results sometime. I guess it's just interesting to think about at what point do you do when you bring other people in to take a look at it?  On that note, Fringy, it actually relates to a point you rose previously is you have to know enough about the craft to be able to point out good criticism and feedback and bad criticism when it's just incorrect. Like I've had people try and say, this is really bad. Or like it was actually one of the beta areas for my novel and they try to point out something that wasn't working and they were objectively wrong. They were not understanding the character at all. And if I had followed what they were trying to say, it would have ruined the book. And it was the other part is what they were saying was in direct contradiction to something that heaps of other debate readers were praising very, you know, like quite a lot in the book. And so, yeah, you have to be able to be aware enough of the craft to be able to figure out, sorry, you're wrong at times. Yeah, I mean, even if you conclude that you shouldn't take it or should take it, at least give them a listen, right? Yeah, absolutely. You just got to be discerning. That's all. Which is interesting. Go ahead. Now, I was just going to point out there's another layer to it, too, where even if the observed flaws are incorrect, you could also fault the creator for not making it clear enough that that's the case. So, like, there are sometimes very obscure references that clue you in on something that, say, a lot of people, even the majority of people watching a movie might not notice. And so you could well, say objectively, that isn't a flaw because it is explained here. Maybe it's so obscure or it's so cryptic and maybe intentionally so that, you know, a lot of people can't pick up on it. And so you could even criticize, hey, well, although you do explain it here, it went over most people's heads. And so you could even count that as a flaw. If you're trying to get it across to a majority of people, maybe you made it too subtle or maybe you didn't make it clear enough. Lots of tough details to sort out. But I mean, it's funny. We're talking about stuff where it can get really complicated as to whether or not is it a flaw? Is it a misunderstanding? Is it a bubble? But I'm stuck all the way back at, like, they'll make a major mistake and won't see it because they didn't show anybody. And then, for example, Wonder Woman 84 just has a rap seat at it.  Because you know, for a fact that she would have not done that if she could go back. Oh, yeah, yeah, she wouldn't have done that. I like that. That one still baffles me. I can't believe it went through all the stages and know what. Like, did someone raise it? And they just said, now we disagree or it's fine. I don't think that could have happened. I'm assuming that everybody just sort of went with it. And if there were ever any thoughts about it, they were like, I'm fine. I think it's fine. And you know what? We were we were struggling on the rules when we were watching it in real time. We were like, wait, is it is it this? Is it this? Is it like, how is that? And I wonder if people on set were like that. They were like, oh, this all makes sense in post. I don't even know what's happening, really. I think it's Chris Pine. She's having sex with. It's fine. It's all the individual scenes are so, you know, like self-contained when they're doing the filming that they're not paying attention to the larger implications of what's happening. Yeah, I think the writers, at least, gosh. You'd think someone on the Tross script stuff would have been like the enemies don't know how to look up. That seems stupid, right? Also, they probably filmed several versions of the different scenes with different lines. They could have had a whole version that we don't know about that she was actually like he wasn't inhabiting someone else's body.  There was a version where it was just Chris Pine came back and that was that. Yeah. Yeah, you could change that in editing, practically. Like it's such a there's only a couple visual cues. You could probably could have fixed that in one idea line. You'd be fine. Yeah. I just I really want to see like if if you've seen the skit by White as Kids, you know, about the Greatest. I really want to see like a version of that with Patty Jenkins, like showing the showing the movie to like a focus group. And they're like, isn't that kind of rapy?  The reaction like you would have to be so sick to think that's right, of course. It's not. Be cold already then. Let's see what his first point is. Location cards are giving me Civil War feels, which makes perfect sense since we're about to jump to right after the events of that movie. It reminds you of it's like Civil War. So that's when you know, I can word it better. I think this is a a minor win for the film that they kept the locations consistent when this film takes place inside Civil War. So it's like, I guess it's nice that you remain consistent with how they do the location descriptions in Civil War because your film is in Civil War. But I don't know that that's much of a compliment. Is that a compliment to Civil War more than it is to this film? Well, the compliment comes to this film for just maintaining that consistent sort of approach. It's nice, I guess. I guess that is a nano compliment to the film. But okay, that's fine. I mean, I could have been literally the editor was like, what kind of title card should I do for this location? I'll just copy and paste the After Effects project I had from the other time. Okay, cool, done. You know, it could have been as simple as that, actually. It's like the two towers using the same font as Fellowship and Return of the King. You're like, ah, that's good. They used the same font. Well, so the thing, to be fair, Black Widow could have not done this and I wouldn't have considered it a flaw. I would have been like, okay, do whatever you want. You're your own movie. Yeah, I wouldn't consider it a win. So that's kind of why I'm saying it's like a nano win. It's more neutral, but it's fine. Yeah, that's a little thing. It doesn't seem like a win, yeah. I like that the specific praise he gives this is that it makes perfect sense. I'm like, hmm, how much in this movie makes perfect sense? I just, the implication, obviously, we talked about this before, so things not making sense would be bad, right? Send me a send a win, sorry. Jovovich isn't a bad doppelganger for Scarlet. Wow. She sort of looks like a young Mila Jovovich. Kinda, I guess, yeah. This is just my subjective reaction. I couldn't tell who was the young Scarlet. I had to ask when I first watched it for the events of that movie. I wasn't, especially because they gave it what looks like brown haired dyed blue. Like, isn't she supposed to have red hair? Yeah, the easiest way to have done it is to have young Scarlet with black widow red hair. It's like, why blue? Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. It threw me off a little bit at the beginning. She's not like other girls. Yeah. My ability to figure it out was even further off, and I don't know if this is just a thing of me. Like, because I didn't know that the one in the shirt with the yellow sleeves was young black widow, I couldn't tell that that was supposed to be a character. I then couldn't even tell if the young person was a boy or girl. I was like, it was nothing signifying it too easily for me, so I was a little confused at the beginning. Yeah, I mean, it got cleared up as time went on, like, I don't know that I would compliment the casting or the way they represent the character for the ease of the audience. Yeah, I think it was necessarily distracting to have the blue hair. Like, it may seem kind of like just cheating, but a red-haired girl, you're like, okay, I know who it is. You could also do it another way, which if you, I found the first act pretty tedious. It's a weird way to start out what is essentially an action movie. To have like a couple of kids playing in the playground, but I think it would have been interesting to start out with modern Black Widow, and then maybe she looks at, you know, something happens and you look into her eye, and then it cuts to the same exact position with the little girl so we know exactly who it is. You could do blue hair or whatever, but as long as you kind of introduce the character, you know, and then it cuts to that exact framing or something, that's one idea. What they wanted to do from what I could tell was give us this wonderful, classic American suburb and family life, and then it all comes crashing down, and this is what she always wanted back. Yeah, I can see that. She wanted her blue hair back. That's what it was all about. I'm also like, honestly, it might even be something as like, is this her purity, a blue purity, and then she becomes something red and dangerous and dark or something. Blue purity? I don't know, that was a thing. Color association, like you ever noticed that banks quite often have green carpet? Green kind of like represents finance. From money? Yeah. I thought white was purity. White could be purity. Blue is usually like calming something good. Water is blue, for example. You need water to survive. Red is like danger, attention. Portal. But yeah, I don't know, I'm reaching here, but you could see something like that where she seems like kind of free, blue, safe, calm, red, danger, death, blood.  That's like, I mean, there was probably, yeah. It was odd to see. It was really strange to see. Not nearly as common back then. I knew a couple of people with dyed hair, but not so many people with blue hair now. In the 90s, yeah. Yeah, in the 90s. Wow, you look like a clown, like they do today. That way, what? This made me even question if Black Widow was a natural redhead. Yeah, same, that's what I was saying.  Cause she likes to dye her hair in general. And then I was like, no, cause the idea is that the red roots come out when she's not dyeing her hair anymore. And I was like, I'm confused. And in fairness, your hair color can change as you get older, like your natural hair color. Obviously when it goes to gray, but I mean like literally, like my sister went from like a really bright blonde to a really dark blonde, the older she got. And so I don't know, maybe they're saying she went red or as she got older, cause those roots don't look that red, you know? Maybe she was like, well, and she was born with blue hair. Once again, they're talking about Black Widow's hair in this video. They have nothing to say to him to say. Just an hour of the matter of criticism. They just want to hate women by focusing on their physical appearance and making fun of it. It's funny you bring that up because it's a compliment from the video and we're trying to figure out, like what is this, if anything, it's kind of a flaw. What's the compliment other than an observation? Well, I would categorize it more in the floor territory than compliment, but I wouldn't bring it up. Yeah, Mila Jovovich doesn't look like Scarlett Johansson. So I don't know if a mini Mila Jovovich is a good doppelganger for Scarlett. I mean the baby, like, or the young kid looks like a young Mila Jovovich, which I can see. I just don't see, I don't see how that's a win. We can more of saying how is that good to make them look like a young Scarlett Johansson. Yeah, if you're going to make her me like the grown-up Black Widow, she doesn't even, like, if you're good, if your comparison was Mila Jovovich, you failed, if she could be a young Scarlett Johansson. Yeah, she looks Scarlett Johansson. I mean, I'm pretty lenient with stuff like that. I'm like, she's fine, this is the thing. I don't think of anything about this, but if he's gonna- So if I grow up, yeah, it's fine. If he goes as far as saying it's a compliment, I would be like, I mean, it's more of a flaw, but I'd rather just go talk about it. At least it's fine. Yeah, exactly. If you want to raise the issue, then, yeah. Oh, the thing, when a movie actually nails a younger actress to look like their older counterpart. A lot of young actresses get nailed in Hollywood. That's unfortunate, isn't it? But it actually really increased the aversion. The early film that I could think of, and there might be other examples, but that act, when I remember watching it, did it really good? That had a young version of the same character and the child actress they got really similar to the old one. I think it was 10,000 BC, that film. Apparently it is me that Jovish has taught it, by the way. That's what people are saying. Oh, really? Really? It's interesting. Which is interesting, yeah. I'm glad that she's carrying the legacy, the family legacy of being an actress. Someone else said she likely had blue hair IRL and that's why she has it here. It's like, oh. Maybe. I mean, who could color hair for a film? That's what I'm saying. Or a wig, you know, like. Well, for one, she's already a better actress than her mother, but two, I have to push back on that because hair in Hollywood and TV and movies is there's an incredible amount of work and amount of attention on hair. I read a story, yeah, no, literally. They spent hours and hours figuring out Riker's hair for Star Trek Next Generation. In fact, when he was done filming the first season, he came back with a beard. They're like, oh my God, they freaked out. They're like, wait, you can't have a beard? You know, so-and-so, Riker doesn't have a beard. And then everything was like, oh, okay, great. No, actually we like the beard. Let's work with it. Thank God he got a beard. And then they had hair stylists trim it and cut it for tweaking it literally for hours and hours and hours. And eventually, they actually shaved off too much. So they actually appended it with glue and extra hair to fill it out again. That's how much attention they have on hair. And it's a serious deal. So the fact that they just casually made her hair blue, that must have been a deliberate decision because a lot of the people- Well, either that or she came on with blue hair. They were like, we could use that. We're okay with that. Yeah, they're like, ah, it's a kid, whatever. Yeah, but just to, just because Mila Jović has come up with an item of conversation and tied into Rags's point before about the degeneracy in Hollywood. Mila Jović has actually come out and admitted that she was, yeah, bad things happened to her when she was underage. And so, yeah, Hollywood is a cesspit that deserves to be burnt. Oh, that's pretty awful. Yeah, you hear stories like that all the time and that a lot of people just, of the few that spoke up, they lost their careers, right? Like, there's a couple of examples.  Yeah, especially the children. Children are so vulnerable. I was really relieved to hear, because what's his name? The guy who plays Frodo, Elijah Wood. Elijah Wood.  No parties, no get-togethers, no meet-ups. You come directly home. And so he claims. Very normal, well-adjusted. So it's probably thanks to that. Yeah, thanks to that. But I would be shocked, you'd probably be shocked to find out how many of these kids were abused and then horrible things done to them. But luckily, we have a few that got away from that. Anyway. Mini-m- Isn't a bad doppelganger for Scarlett. Wow, have we come a long way since Michael Douglas rudely uncanny-valid all over our screens? Huh? So I guess they're talking about, I don't know if you looked that bad in Ant-Man. He was right. Yeah, he looked good there. I don't remember that, yeah. And the thing is. Also, he's much older. Yeah. And he was playing a committee who was much younger than he is. It's a lot harder to make him look younger than it is to make Rachel Wise look younger. But no, that's a fair compliment too. The technology to D.A.H. actors is doing great. The one in Captain Marvel of Samuel Jackson kind of surprised me. I was like, whoa, he looks great. Yeah, that's really good. You can tell him. See, that's a positive thing in a really shitty movie. Yeah. Makes you- I'm just curious when he gets to the storytelling ones, like instead of the effects ones, it's like, mm. Rachel Picks is fun too. I like how he says, does Rachel Wise just look the same 21 years later? It's like, there's a lot of actresses that do that. Where you're like, wait a minute. You look exactly the same. Look the same 21 years later? Brave girl, your pain only makes you stronger.  She's training assassins, so of course she'd say that. No, but- Hang on, there is a vein of truth in that statement. I mean, it's not wholly accurate. What type of pain you carry and how you got it? Yeah, well, I probably go as far as saying pain makes you stronger is a little bit useless on its own. You're gonna need a lot more than that. Yeah. Yeah, because you could just be hurting yourself and that's not good. Overcoming adversity makes you stronger. That's probably a more accurate statement. Yeah, yeah, that's a better statement, yeah. Because that's the statement that she carries you through a whole life, if you guys remember. So I always found that so strange. It really felt like it's got nothing to do with Black Widow. Pain makes you stronger. It's like, that's not really... I don't see that in her storyline. Yeah, it's just because of her job that she might be in pain, but she still has to do her job, you know? It would be like if Iron Man said, pain makes you stronger is like summarizes my life. I'd just be like, not really, but okay, I guess you can pick things that can kind of apply to that. It felt like a generic one to throw on a character that you can kind of say is their journey. Honestly, like a much better message if they wanted to do that would be something like you need to learn how to forgive yourself and redeem yourself and do better, you know, with the whole Jacob's daughter thing. Like that would have something like that. I just pulled out of that in my head, but something like that would be a much stronger resonant message for this movie. And as people are recognizing, it's like, yeah, I guess pain did make it stronger because she kept falling in different places and getting blown up and stuff. She's getting stronger and stronger. Sorry, I don't want to sidetrack things too much, but just on the note before where we were saying that there are some actresses that age 20 years and haven't, you know, they don't look any different. What about those actors that do age like 20 years or more and they look completely different? Like for me, the one that always stands out, have you seen Young William Shatner compared to Old William Shatner? For some reason, when I look at like Young William Shatner, it's like I'm looking at two different people. He looks different, but he looks amazing for his age too. Oh yeah, he looks great for his age. He's older than that, I think he's in his 90s. He is an old man, yeah.   Christopher Lee's an example of someone who as a kid, I always knew John Cleese and Christopher Lee were people who I knew the younger versions and the older versions as almost separate actors. Like I recognized them differently. Like, oh, there's that guy. It's like, no, that guy and that guy are the same one.  Cause like I always remember Older Christopher Lee would often have a beard or a goatee or something and then younger one would always be shaved and then like, you know, one color hair and while the other one is like fully white or gray old men roles. And yeah, John Cleese was kind of the same thing where it should be like, they don't, it's not, I don't know what it is for me. I just, there is sometimes like I don't see them quite as the same person until I see enough of the middling years, I guess where they connects them. But when I was a kid, you know, I would literally jump between the man with a golden gun and Lord of the Rings. And I'd be like, I don't think they're the same person. Are they? Like they kind of look different. Yeah, like a younger Lee kind of had what looked a little bit awkward. He looked really, really tall cause he was kind of skinnier and younger or whatever. I had the same issue. I had the same thing when I watched one movie with a younger Anthony Hopkins because Anthony Hopkins has been like, quote unquote old wise man for like 50 years. So when I saw him in, I think it was Elephant Man I think I saw him in is like, oh, he's like young.  And he's not a bad looking guy obviously, but but like, I never thought of Anthony Hopkins as like, you know, a lady, a lady's man or whatever, but I could see him actually playing that role. Well, you see. But he just immediately graduated to old wise man for some reason. I watched his career with great interest and thus I saw his gradual turn from 40s to like 60s to older and older until all the color had left his hair. I think when I think of Anthony Hopkins, I think of Mask of Zorro. That's just what I go to when I think of him. Yeah, which is like the last of his sort of roles where he was a bit more, he moved around a lot. And now he's much more, I sit and talk, I stand and talk, which is fine. Cause that's his age. Um, Michael Cain's another one, I think to some degree. And these are only because I think I saw their old person movies and young person movies back to back.  Yeah, Sean Connery with like James Bond to rock. Yeah, that was a big one. Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. I don't know, I can, I can so identifiable even young and older might be his accent, but it's always so identifiable and Sean Connery. That's what I was saying. It's hard to explain this because I really, I really agree with a Sean Connery. Well, we'll see that was different, but I don't know why I would say that. And I think it's literally just on the surface. They're the complete different look. James Bond's look compared to older Sean Connery, like Liga Restorning Gentlemen or Indiana Jones. For right October. Yeah, like these, he's distinctively got a new look.  But there's been actors who have successfully reinvented themselves. Like a great example would be somebody like. What's his name? Irish guy have taken the Amnesian like he was like dark man and movies like that in his younger days. And he reinvented himself as like a more experienced, you know, kind of action star with like 50 cuts a second with the take on series. I was just thinking about how Johnny Depp is kind of like the character. He never would have been like any one character because he was playing a bazillion different characters all the time. But he was pretty normal in his like, you know, what's eating Gilbert Grape and stuff like that. He was a pretty, pretty fairly normal actor. But I guess he got into the character, character acting gig. And he is now basically invisible now. He's just playing whatever he wants to. Now he's going to struggle to get jobs because of. Yeah, he's always visible in Hollywood. Yeah, sucks, but there we are. Yeah, new fantastic beasts and new pirate movies will not have him in it. Like, yeah, that's that's a shame. They're different. If you see anybody talking about Jack Sparrow on the Internet, they'll be like, no one can play him again. No one do not allow anyone to try to play Jack Sparrow. It's kind of like King and I with Yule Brenner. He he got so iconic because the character isn't necessarily supposed to be bald, but he played it bald. And so like, nobody can play the King and King and I and not be compared to Yule Brenner.  So sometimes you just innate and that was not only that, but that was a unique character. The Jack Sparrow was the first time it's been in portrayed in any media other than the tour ride. So, yeah, nobody's going to get nobody's going to play Neanna Jones without being compared to Harrison Ford, etc. As someone just mentioned, counterweaves growing out that John Wick beard is kind of like the line has been crossed between older Keanu stuff. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he shaved it for the new Bill and Ted movie. And honestly, he looks so much older without his beard. So I think he should stick with that. It's a good look for him. He wouldn't shave it for Matrix.  I wouldn't mind a beard. Yeah, yeah, I'm probably it now. Anyway. Called by a little bit. Pretty biology lessons. Oh, would you grab half of that worth the point? Pretty biology lessons, you child. To me, that's type of the ones that is trying to kind of copy cinemasins, but in reverse, where he purposely picks out a nonsensical, irrelevant thing just to give it a tick. Yeah, like in this shot right now, it's like not handling not handling the bowl as safe as she could or something like that. Sin. Where you just be like, what? Because sometimes cinemasins kind of hear in your corner on the cut of pointing out bullcrap can come across funny, especially when he does it obviously ironically. And so it can work. But trying to reverse it without any possible comedic punchline when you know you're purposely being sarcastic, it does not work. So don't give weak, you know, nonsensical wins when there's nothing there. I don't think it works either way personally, because my big problem with cinemasins is that they're like, oh, we're satire and it's like some of our arguments are obviously wrong. It's very hard to tell. It's hard to tell when you got it wrong or when you were trying to be wrong or when you were trying to make a joke because sometimes your joke is a criticism, sometimes your criticism is inaccurate. And it's like, well, this is kind of worthless. Like I don't know what I meant to do with this. I either have to take it all seriously and then criticise the points that are wrong or I don't take any of it seriously at all, which you yourselves have claimed is not the case, that sometimes like you're actually trying to make real points. I don't want to get off in a whole tangent, but did you guys ever identify what that whole firefly thing was? I kind of like backseat script wrote an explanation for it, but it's not at all really brought up in the movie. Like you see it at the beginning and you see at the end. I thought they were going to go for when I first saw it, I thought they're going to go for something like, oh, why are those bugs glowing? It's like, oh, those bioluminescence fireflies make their own light and then kind of like retouch on that later.  I don't know. That was just one idea I came up with, but something would be at least explain it right. As I said in the video, it is waiting for a video essayist to just grab something because the movie didn't put any effort into that. But like one line would have made that somewhat thematic. Like, like I just said, you know, fireflies make their own light. You could kind of see something there, you know, maybe, but they don't even mention it again. They just show it at the end. It's like, oh, fireflies, remember that? I'm just like, OK. Alexi ranch dressing, it couldn't be tight suit shadowing. What is that? Huh? Alexi is having ranch dressing, which kind of sets up how he's going to gain weight. Oh, really? He says he said. So this is the thing for you just said it. So he just said, like the tight suit foreshadowing it. So we're all just like, oh, is that a joke? And he's like, yeah, sure, it's a joke.  Yeah, it's funny because he said it in, like, oh, no way. What in that type of voice? But like it's setting up the idea that he's going to gain weight. Is yeah, you know, like, is that a and that's a win? Or is he making fun of the way? Yeah, it's so weird. That's not a setup just because someone likes range. Fat. Yeah. Well, so again, so if he was like, it's just a joke, guys, I just feel like, all right, then you gave it a win, though. That's why it feels weird. What's the point of the wind counter? It's it's a new film making technique. It's called branch position. Oh, I get it. Who would want? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, we skipped. Can't be having that. It couldn't be tight suit shadowing. I don't want to go. I get it. Who would want to leave hover? Gave that a win. It's exactly like like cinema sense. He just adds in jokes and they're completely but that one, at least. But that one was nothing. That was, yeah, I can see why she wouldn't want to leave Harper referencing Stranger Things. You're like, OK, why is that a win? Like, what is that? I just don't like never understand the system. It almost feels like filler because he hasn't got much to say on why this is good. It'd be like reaching for things. Yeah, again, just it illustrates how useless these videos are for the overall, like, goal of film discussion. It'd be like doing any movie with Christian Bale. It's like, oh, yeah, Batman thing. It's like, OK, yes. It's like Batman. He's going to have a real point eventually. It'll come. I mean, he's had a couple of real things. Is he trying to copy cinemas is because I remember cinemas is, you know, thing on Batman Begins and he comes to the scene where Batman comes across the kid in the window saying you, Batman, and it's the same actor that played Joffrey in Game of Thrones, and he gave him a sin for not killing Joffrey when he had the chance. Yeah, I got a chuckle out of that. Funny, you know, because, yeah. And that was obviously sarcastic. It was met a human stuff, referring to things that exist outside the film. Is that what he was trying to kind of do here? It's like, oh, you like this guy? Is it another thing? But again, it's not working. Yeah, it's kind of this signature. They even tell you this, like, I don't know if you ever talked to any YouTube reps, they even tell you to, like, come up with some sort of signature catchphrase or some sort of branding personality thing, literally, like. So his one, I think, is like lap dances or whatever and jokes throughout the video. So, like, you'll just randomly take a scene. This scene does not have a lap dance. Lap dance, ding, you know, hasn't he stopped that because it's so un-PC now, though? I think I would have to say that in ages now. I haven't watched him for years. Yeah, I think so. He stopped specifically because it was too offensive, which is funny. It's too offensive. Yeah, like, it objectifies women.  Wow.  Now I'm a winner for winning lap dances. Yeah, yeah. But OK, let's just hope we get some real points then because I'm already I'm already bored of joke wins. Yeah.  Perfectly crafted. Nat's real family. I don't know how you would. So here's the thing.  Just show a normal family. Well, I was going to. But I mean, if you know anything about the MCU, so you'd be like, so Nat's Russian. Was she doing it in America? Like, what is this? Or do you know that you already know something's something's not right? Yeah. Yeah. Something's really wrong. I knew something was wrong from the very beginning. It didn't like the mother's quote unquote reaction to the kid being hurt was completely wrong. And everything was kind of off. And also they never explain why Nat never ever has an accent. Whereas everyone else gets a really thick Russian accent, too, which is strange to me, but whatever. Nat trained to not have his I would have thought what he should be complimenting is that this environment makes a lot of sense. This kind of environment would give Nat a strong, I don't know, attachment to family life that she never got to have again or something like that. But like saying this is great at tricking the audience into thinking this is Nat's real family. And I'm like, oh, not even close for me. But no, hmm. But it's a story about family. That's what's so powerful about it. Yeah, Dad says they have only about him and Nat is sad to leave her very real not at all cover for being a Russian spy slash assassin sleeper cell family in life. So it looks real, but you know, it's not real, but it's. So I guess he's just sad to. He's just complimenting the fact that it could have tricked the audience, which I guess it could have if they wouldn't pay more attention. Yeah, OK, also see how comfortable the six year old is with the rifle shells and it starts to crack a