ulating biogeochemical cycles and providing information on evolution and extinction. And then I'll just say that we had a couple of other kind of close contenders which echo some of the things other people have said including thinking about the role of the oceans and storing carbon and looking at carbon fluxes, and then also geohazards. Virtual room seven, the other Brad Brad along the other breath. Thanks Jim. So we were a group of six or seven and we had a good discussion and covered a bunch of things we tended to focus on kind of the paleo perspective but then Katrina brought us back to kind of at least draw some attention on to to hazard so that's why you'll see the third topic there. Things we didn't I'm not presenting here we talked a lot about or considered kind of interacting time scales and differing kinds of roles of microbial kind of organisms within the system. Some of that's hidden inside these questions but the first is really trying to link various aspects of freshwater cryosphere. So the tipping points related to the deep circulation and Western boundary currents. So if you're in the Atlantic this could be an amok but if you're, you know, in the Southern Ocean, it could be, you know, formation of Antarctic bottom water there could be lots of different kind of connections there but it was the, the link between drivers through kind of the nonlinear tipping points and then response. And it is, we talked about carbon in several different ways both in an ecosystem and an organizational sense but then kind of drew it to this, this question about phrased as what might the unintended consequences of large scale ocean carbon would be thinking of carbon sequestration in its most general form including, you know, alkalinity enhancement including, you know, artificial upwelling including, you know, you know, seaweed cultivation whatever you think of is in carbon sequestration and then needing to link that to understanding how ocean carbon cycle will respond to warming thinking of the kind of intro for me at least and for us I think interesting Danny's talk about the shifting perspective on oxygen which I'm still absorbing and we come to terms with yet the idea that the paleo record may say something different than we're thinking of in the presence space for climate change. And finally the very specific hazards discussion around a particular kind of earthquake issue from the the slip to these slow slip events which are kind of very drawn out tsunami genetic earthquakes in regions like Cascadia New Zealand Japan, and there's all sports sorts of aspects of that in terms of drilling through to understand how these systems function, but also actually adding or including early warning capacity to to that kind of exploration. So, I think I'll stop there. Thanks. Virtual room eight, which is Jason. Oh, it was Jason. Everything that we have here has actually been covered a few times but we were talking about reconstructing the geologic record for the ground truthing models basically to for better models to test the models and to be able to better predict future climate change. And then we talked about ground truthing again with in terms of engineered and nature based climate solutions. So understanding the oceans role in carbon dioxide uptake through biogeochemical cycles through sediment uptake and sequestration in the crust. And then we talked about monitoring the state and properties of the seismogenic zone pertaining to geohazard mitigation. Well, I think the, just in terms of taking a look at what all the groups reported on it seems that there were at least two general themes and each group went a little bit. Oh, two more. No, they're down at the bottom. Okay. Alright, virtual room nine I guess I didn't see it on. That's why I had virtual room nine. This is Leanne. We've said everything that everyone else has already said the beauty of being at the end. I think we did try to go about it a little bit more broader aspects aspects so that they're a bit more encompassing of everything what people have been saying but yeah, climate change geohazards and deep biosphere and subsequent. Alright, I'm, I'm virtual room 10 and very similar themes again, focus on paleo climate and the importance of analog for present day changes, geohazards, both as measurements of the current state and behavior but also as a long term record of past events. And then biogeochemical cycle so but not just thinking about the deep biosphere but also thinking about hydrothermal input and how it directly influences geochemical as well as biogeochemical cycles or the ocean chemistry and and ultimately potentially the atmosphere. And we also discussed was the importance of tools and techniques that may come more into tomorrow but, but recognizing that these are evolving rapidly and critical to all of these there was particularly some discussion of the value of applying E DNA, more broadly. The importance of AI and and machine learning in analysis in particular, and then continuing to develop novel and simple downhole tools and measurements. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, so I guess we could try to. Talk about how to how to put these together and it seems like there's two, as I mentioned that crossed all of them which in some way climate change and particularly with respect to ice sheets and in effect on circulation whether it's in the Antarctic or Atlantic. That seem to be common in some way and all of the groups. And then the other is geohazards, particularly with earthquakes and perhaps involving sensors and board holes. It's also interesting to see that there's other NSF funded groups that are thinking about this including the was the best subduction zone for the SC4D group is talking about this and I think it's some way the seafloor part of the Ocean Observatory Initiative off Cascadia I think was also involved in some way with us. So those are two. And then there was things like there was a wide variety of things that were that people that popped up in the third, some of them are related, some of them are not. There was a lot on seem like several of them had to do with the carbon steps capture carbon, different aspects of the carbon cycle and impacts of warming on the carbon on carbon mass removal. Some that had something about tipping points, but those could be tied back in I think to the climate climate theme. Let's see there was, there was the one that was very different the technological solutions and governance was one. A couple of them are more than two really talked about the need for greater public engagement, trying to get the message across better resources was another theme that popped up. And then different aspects of a subsurface biosphere that showed up quite a bit and ocean ecosystems in general and how they're changed and affected but that perhaps could be tied in back to the climate change theme. So, I think two of them really jump out and that are pretty easy I think to and to write something that will cover what most of the people. Most of the groups said about them. And then the third one is a bit bit more dispersed least least way I saw it but perhaps someone else might have better. Subsea for life. No, I, yeah. Okay, now that showed up a lot you're right. And I didn't mention some deep sea deep deeply very biased to me will see for life but yeah, no that showed up a lot so maybe that's third one. But there was, you know, a number of others that also popped up. And I wanted to point out that the subsea for life and it also engages another hard rock community, which was a good thing to be inclusive. Yeah, since I think hard rock is underrepresented at this meeting I think oh maybe in hazards it's there but I don't know. I don't know people may have other ideas but other comments are people happy with the idea that a group could take the first two themes easily and deal and write something that would appeal to most, not all on hazards and and climate change, and then a third one. Well, subsurface life could be one, and could be one or, or, you know, there were some other candidates as well we got to narrow it down a bit, but things like two would be pretty easy to write in a way that most, most of the people in the room would be and online would be happy to support I believe, but if you disagree that you might disagree. First, I'm going to go back to this thing about underselling subsea floor life because all day today we've been hearing about the importance of ocean drilling like it's something we can't do without being able to drill either into the crust or into the deep sediment, and also with poor fluid work and so if the task as I understood it was what important questions do we have remaining or for the future that require ocean drilling. I think life has to be one of the top three but I think somebody who actually studies subsea floor life might want to speak instead of me. See what a surprise. This is Steve don't you are I one of the things I do is study subsea floor life, and there was some confusion in our group about the phrasing of what was the word. So we were, we were thinking about what is, you know what is important what is what is a priority but also what is urgent and and so the thinking about the term urgent, because we know that has such ties to action quickly. We wrestled with that and I'll turn it back to Steve in just a second but we, I think that was why. So for room 114 we really tried to think about. We had the phrase seek subsea floor life as an unknown natural resource so trying to trying to find a crafty way to connect to urgent, but that that's a bit of a screen. Right, and the reason I bring that up is I think that the use of that word urgent may have confused conversation in our group and it did in our group and it may have in other groups. You know, as Becky said, the only way we can study subsea floor life through its full range is through scientific ocean drilling.  We heard a lot about it from other scientists today. I, you know, I don't know that for the current directive NSF, it's urgent to understand the largest unknown biome on the planet. But, you know, if you set aside that issue of political urgency. I think it's a really big target for IOD for scientific ocean drilling. There's something that came up in your group about how it affects ocean chemistry and how it would be a water circulating through the rocks basically effective chemistry chemistry changing by surface life ends up affecting overall chemistry to the ocean to. You know, we know in sediment that it's a primary that the life as a primary driver of chemical exchange between the ocean and the subsurface in the basement it's a more open question. Right, there's a lot of redox activity in the basement microbes are almost certainly hitchhiking on it. The only question is to what extent do they drive it. In our group we actually also rolled in ecosystem response into habitability and life questions is our third bullet so we did we kind of sliced it slightly differently I noticed other groups sliced it with the budget chemical cycle side. So I feel like that is the third one but the nuance of how you write that is important. Something I'd like to add is one of the strengths that I've seen of scientific ocean drilling is how it approaches complex problems through a systems framework. You know, here we're, we're necessarily in this work process trying to identify distinct science priorities, but the reality is, these challenges, all of the all of the earth system challenges are very interconnected. I think part of our challenge moving forward is to to be able to identify, you know, key areas but also to really communicate well the interconnected nature of, of probably many priorities you know each of these there are sub areas and they connect to each and for the deep biosphere. Yeah, this to me I that is not my field that that is to me this is one of the top three priorities and it is part of an interconnected system. So it's also not my field and I agree that just the fact that it's the largest biosphere on earth, the largest on study biosphere on earth deserves to make it a priority. If we are concerned about prioritizing things and giving the inter, given the interconnected nature of all these different systems, something else has come up a lot was carbon sequestration and understanding hydrothermal cycling and cycling in general the oceans and the role the biosphere and mediating that if we don't even have a good handle what the sub seafloor biosphere is we don't understand how it can modulate carbon sequestration and so maybe combining those two things into a third urgent priority is the way to go. Okay, I just want to like add on to this because like Chris said this is a huge I agree like microbiology is not my field as a micro paleontologist it is incredibly important because it can also inform our plankton that we study. We just got over a major pandemic. I'll take that back we're not over it yet. Even though the CDC says we're out of a pandemic, still in a pandemic right. I've heard about viruses that my colleagues are studying in the sub seafloor. There are other types of things. There's some biomedical innovation that could come from that as well. And I think that's incredibly important and I would rank that as urgent, because that has medical implications or biomedical implications. And that again thinking back to the panel that we had earlier that links in with tips mission right and the NSF tip mission about innovation training early career researchers and getting them involved with this research. So, I agree. There's a lot of other reasons why bio G for sorry to microbiome is incredibly important in this day and age. One, two, three. Yeah, so just to follow up I think on what Chris had said and others have said I will add to the, the bevy of voices that is not a microbiologist. But one of the things that concerns me a little bit is if we have a list of things that are urgent priorities that are geo hazards, climate change, and the biosphere we might as well dust off the 2013 science plan and hand it back to NSF. So I think there is an aspect of this that is important to think about highlighting the urgent components of this or the urgent elements. And so it may be that the framing of this and the way that Chris articulated it maybe it's about carbon cycling or incantation CO2 secretion or resources or some other pieces but it still allows us to go after the deep biosphere is a way to frame this and maybe I'm preaching to the choir, but it hasn't been said so I thought I'd say it. I'm following on to that, and also trying to bring in a little bit of the hard rock perspective. I guess one of the ways that we phrase the sub seafloor stuff was the sub seafloor ecosystem being an integral part of the system and I do think that's a new framing. From the hard rock side, I think it's going to be really important as we go about this assessment of sub seafloor life and exchanges hydrologic exchanges to be doing a good job of characterizing what the formation is, or it's not. And sometimes that's fracturing and deformation sometimes it's the composition, but I think we're not going to get at the whole picture unless it's an integrated exchange approach where the sub seafloor biosphere is integral. Okay, so my, my comment is perhaps a good follow up to what you just heard. In our group the word urgent certainly steered our conversation, and I was pleased to see that some of the groups made reference just to the to the board quote boring science. I worry that we're forgetting that basic research is still really important that basic research is what allows applied research to to happen. So our fourth priority that didn't make it onto the big three was the solid earth, and I have concerns that that community has not been, has not been very vocal today, and maybe they have been on the chat and I didn't see it. But that is something that can only be accomplished through scientific ocean drilling right there's no other tool that can drill into the crust. There's no other tool that can get back as as you've heard right so deep in time, and to study the whole cycle of plate tectonics. Well yeah I can't see that but it. Okay, sure Anthony, if you're online go ahead. Anthony coppers are you online. So yeah, are you muted. He's looking for headphones or something. Well, in the meantime, if it's a problem is it a problem if you come back with these three themes, and they've been given before. But if you highlight the urgent aspects of it as someone mentioned does that help with that issue. Subsea for life climate change and geological hazards has been in IOBP science plans in the past. There's still a lot to look at how to say what if you highlight the urgency part of that so it's that. Yeah, in other words, can we get around it, get around the problems or the perceived problems of saying things that have been in science plans in the past if you highlight the urgent parts of it, or is it not something to worry about so we'll go with Steve and then then you and then over here. Yeah, I want to respond to the point that these have been part of the past science plans. I think with subsea for life we've made a really good started understanding what's down there. And, you know, that's mostly come to fruition actually in the last couple of years, but there's a huge difference between knowing what is somewhere and knowing how it operates and what it does and how it evolves. And, you know, I think we could make the same argument for paleo climate it's been part of scientific ocean drilling since before there was a DSDP. Right. And, but it's still a primary driver and there's still very, very important things to learn. I was just going to ask, I would love to hear from our NSF folks about this as well, and their opinions. If you don't feel obligated you don't have to answer anything. Okay. Thanks speak. Thanks Danny. The question was open ended enough that either I can answer it however I like, or you could refine it a little bit so I can try and answer a specific aspect. The concern is, as if there was, and I, is it a concern is if geological hazards, climate change and substance and deeply buried biosphere of the subsurface life were in highlighted in prior I ODP science plans. Is that really something to worry about since, since clearly the emphasis on all three is going to be different now than it was 10 years ago. No, I mean that's that by itself isn't problematic and that, and I wouldn't, I certainly wouldn't put it that way. Maybe because it's late in the day and my filter is, is worn a little, I'll, I'll expand only slightly on the urgent matter that Jim what you're pointing to is sort of refinement. I think that's a little of the topics, or let me put it slightly different. I am choosing to hear you say that you're refining the message, a little bit. So, maybe, maybe more than a little bit, but maybe not refining maybe told different aspect of it. Yeah, I was being, I was being broad but but yeah so we're, I think we're talking about the same thing is, is where I'm getting at.  I won't say that it's problematic necessarily but it's certainly challenging in the way that we think about, we think about the science. When I, when you, when you think about the message so somebody's asked me, I've been asked, I've been in my current job for one year and two weeks. And I have been asked multiple times and multiple venues, what do I do, I am a messenger. That is what my job is. I have two former division directors in this room. They will be willing to bet they tell you the same thing that that is our job. So, on the list of people I talked to are people that don't understand our priorities the way we do. So, part of the decadal survey is to help us message the priorities to groups that quite honestly don't, don't need to understand what we do, but want to understand what they do. And so the, the sort of shortcut is I talk to Hill staffers all the time. You know, I, I talked to more people for as many people I talked to in the scientific community. I talked to people not in the scientific community. And so those messages, your messages. Think about your messages helping me help you. That's so when we, when I talk about urgency, it has to be urgent to more than everybody in this room. And that's what I mean by that. And Jim, what you've done is presented an option for refined. We're talking about the same thing, but refinement of a message in a way that it's easier for me to articulate. I don't mean to make it all about me, but for better for worse, I'm your messenger. So, that is what I'll stop talking now. But, but that's what I need. And the reason we're here listening is we're listening for the messages. So, the short answer is, you got it, Jim. Yeah, I have, but it was Becky has been trying to say something. And then after that, Anthony says he's ready. His, his Bluetooth. Yeah, go ahead, Anthony. Yeah, sorry about that and I might have missed part of the discussion, but actually, I wanted to go back to what Kristen and Damien started to say right I had the same impression right when we look at the priorities that are being brought forward to almost look like the science questions of the style of the, you know, the current or the treatment or even the science plans before that. And I think the one thing that really stands out to me is that this community has been going through a whole evolution over the decades and how we're doing scientific ocean drilling. And with the science framework we're standing at this new spot in that in the timeline where we actually starting to connect way more disciplines that comes truly transitionary. And we start looking at your system from an interconnected point of view. And by now having that urgent thing in there and everybody say oh we have to do something now. You know, we all are falling back to our old habits and start to look go after single questions. So I wanted to, you know, second what Damien and Kristen said that's a bit worrying I think we should keep that in mind that maybe we should look behind beyond that and see if we can keep some of that interconnected thinking in our in our, you know, prioritization here. Do you still want to say something. No, other other comments on this or questions. Yes. I have a note I guess there's urgent as in needs to be addressed now and there's poised for really immediate advance. And I think maybe having the second in mind might help us a little bit here. In terms of timescale or urgent in terms of timescale and then there's urgent in terms of like potential for like novel and revolutionary and transformative science and I think that's where if we drop the biosphere we might really lose out. So yeah, just any last comments. May I. Yeah, so I said this to the committee and I shared this with our group to I think I, and this is from from a book I read, but it's about the difference between urgent and vital as urgent is almost always driven by a deadline. And vital is something that we cannot live without our planet can't live without we can't live without it's essential. And I think of this committee's work as focusing on those essential vital questions, not urgent ones that are driven by a year long priority to year long priority, but something that is absolutely essential to the well being of humans and plan and our planet quite honestly. I really like the vital and urgent distinctions as well as how urgent can can be viewed in multiple ways, as was also added. I do think urgency has a place in communicating to the broader world about the value of scientific ocean drilling. You know, as Jim was describing that that's something that people can resonate that resonates with them. But the other way that I think urgency plays a role in what we're thinking and I guess my mind is starting to go to tomorrow is the J. the J. R. is is is not going to be here anymore and what has to be prioritized early. But you know what are the the most urgent things to try to get done with whatever the infrastructure is in the next five years or 10 years versus what is still so incredibly important but it could be, if it has to be put into a different place in the queue for longer term that this ties to infrastructure, you know what is most urgent right right right right now, even if it's vital for also long term so I do see there's a time frame for action. Thank you. I think Andrea has her hand up. Yeah, thanks Jim. I just thought I'd add something that we talked about in our breakout group that really ties into this concern of like are we repeating things from before but also this urgency conversation. We can make arguments about you know how studying climate in this way where we can get long term and abrupt events and so forth, can help us to answer some, you know, pressing questions what makes these things urgent is maybe seeing the immediate relevance to us as humans right so how can we use these records to talk about like ocean health right like heat waves and how that affects things and like we have these great records. And we can take that and focus it on these kind of modern problems that we're living through and get worse in the future so that ocean health thing is one thing or you know the hot topic right now. I think what was really intended was you know how do extremes change in the context of a longer term changing climate right looking at these extreme events in the context of these climate changes. That's something that everyone's talking about today. We have these records and and we have the capacity to develop more of them to answer these pressing questions so that maybe helps to put a new spin on. I don't know if he's the right word but making it more immediately relevant to these emerging issues. Becky, then we'll go to tuba. Just really quickly. I'm going to put on my hat as the chair of the US advisory committee to for scientific ocean drilling. The broader community needs to also sit down and have a discussion and about their science priorities about the US science priorities and this is something that NSF has asked us to do and something that us up with the help of us is the US science support program so it is the NSF funded office that supports the scientists who participate in scientific ocean drilling sorry to use jargon. But has is so use up will have a workshop for the broader community. And I think, you know, we can define priorities here but the like details in those priorities and what we can do in how we frame it can be fleshed out in a really comprehensive way in a different setting I just I feel like this room is too small to do it here. And I don't mean the size. Can I can I just step in real quick, because I come from a place that's earthquake prone. It's not a question of if it's a question of when. And my thought is that when I showed those pictures of all of those proposals. And I think that when we come in for Cascadia, that is one place where we can apply the things that we've learned from Japan and from Hikarangi to Cascadia now to save lives US lives potentially in Cascadia and I don't know the specifics about all of those proposals. But there's a lot of stuff that they're proposing that could be useful to, you know, essentially could save lives. And I was just going to point that out to me. Well, there's no drilling that's going to help me in Southern California, but there's drilling that can help people in Washington and Oregon states. Sure. Wow. Okay, so long day, my head is full. My brain is hurting, but my heart is full too. This is just a really incredibly dedicated passionate group of folks both in the room and online and I really appreciate just how much I was able to learn. And part of the most fun part of these national academies is that we get to learn, right, and that's great. I will tell you a few things that I heard today that maybe we're a little bit surprising to me, as you know maybe somebody who was not part of an integral part of this community. But one, I feel like I heard a pretty strong sense, even though we never really said it explicitly that the scientific ocean drilling community is sort of feeling like they're not being valued in the way that they should be valued, or the work isn't being valued in the way it should be valued and correct me if this is completely off the mark but part of me thinks, you know, does that have something to do with. Maybe we haven't made the case in the right way. Right, because, and here's where that's coming from. Many of you are educators so you teach in the classroom and. So what I teach in the classroom I explain something, and a student looks at me totally bewildered has no idea what I'm talking about. If I explain that thing the same exact way again, it usually does not help. And so the over the many years of teaching in the classroom I have developed three ways of explaining almost everything. Right, if the one way didn't work, then I'll do it through a different way than I'll, because you know, people are motivated by different things right so that brings me back to a comment earlier about, you know, are we just going to restate the priorities that some other report had already stated. To me maybe it's less about whether or not we're going to restate the priorities and it's more about how we're going to justify those priorities. Right, because I really don't doubt that those previous reports did not really nail the issue they probably did. If it didn't resonate then that means we did not articulate, you know, because everyone makes sense to themselves. Right, this is one piece of advice that I was given that I have, I use almost every day. Everyone makes sense to themselves so if there are decision makers who are not necessarily going in the directions that we wish that they would. They make sense to themselves so what is it that's driving them and how can we speak to whatever that motivator is right. That also Jim what you just said I really appreciated that you said that that you are a messenger or communicator, and that really what we should do is to help you help us and one way that we can do that is to frame the arguments and justifications for whatever it is that we feel in our work is the right priority, and we really have to articulate that. And maybe one way to do that is and Daniel Daniel you did such a good job today articulating, you know ways in which this work has impact real boots on the ground impact that that influence you know impacts human life and then you know we just heard about earthquakes and tsunamis and Pacific Northwest I feel all of that in my gut too. That's one thought. The other thought I have is we talked a lot about the jr today. And a little bit of that is in here I'm learning to I am learning what capabilities the jr had has. So, I think one thing that I would love to do in our report is to be very transparent and open about if we are not supporting the jr exactly what is it that we're leaving on the table. Right. I would like to have a very clear view of that I personally don't yet. Many of you might, but I would like to be able to communicate that and. So in this context, so in my mind right I mean prioritization science priorities it's really all about we have a whole bunch of cards at the bottom of the hill and I've used this analogy a lot at OSU so those of you who are from OSU have heard me talk about this before but. So, we've got 3020 cards at the bottom of the hill and they all need to get up the hill they're all really important. Right. We don't have enough muscle power we can't get them all up the hill in these 10 years. Right, this is a decadal study. So I challenge us to figure out which carts we are going to be taking up the hill. But that also means that we're very cognizant about which carts were leaving behind. In that context the jr you know if we're not supporting the jr we should be very aware and cognizant about what carts were leaving behind because of that decision. It should be a conscious thing right we should all be aware. So that's another thing that I really would love to at the end of the day tomorrow once we talk about new possibilities and potential new technologies. You know what can we sort of figure out how to cover and what is left uncovered. And, you know, you saw maps and maybe that's one way to communicate that but I feel like there's, there's, there's nuances there that I have not yet absorbed enough. So those are my thoughts I feel like we had a lot of raw conversations today but we also had a lot of creative conversations right and I love. I don't know I've been doing this for years but why am I always surprised when breakout groups come back and there's total overlap and synergy and to me that that that makes me happy every time and that there's certainly a lot of that here today and so that's great to see. So as far as the rest of the day and tomorrow is concerned it's been a really long day right but I think we get to have some food and interact with each other a little bit, but then after that I think right around 630 we're going to ask the committee to say goodbye to all of our friends and colleagues here and convene as a committee, and I know you all are tired and that's going to be really hard to do. But we still will ask you to do so just so we can, we can debrief in a closed session, and sort of get our bearings as to what we want tomorrow to look like because again, this is a lot of time invested by a lot of very busy people so we want to make sure that we use everyone's time as effectively as possible. And then finally I want to close by thanking those of you who are online. There's still 79 of you, your dedication is just really remarkable. It just goes to show how much, how important this is for the careers and livelihoods and passions of so many of you. And we hope that you will be able to join us again tomorrow.


Kasper Novist responds to claims the brass show with Cas ratings is plummeting. Rapper and TV presenter Kasper Novist is not phased by claims his TV shows ratings are dwindling. The rapper replied to a tweet asking how he felt about the dip in viewership by claiming there is talk of a rear-run for the show. I'm not even going to explain anything, my dog. You always have the answers in your tweet but the fact is, I made a big bank and my client is very happy with my service. Everywhere I go I meet fans who watch it religiously and are talks of a rear-run," he said. The rapper also hit back at suggestions the reason the show was trending every week was that he was buying his spot on the trends list.


I won, I won. Oh, in my junk mail, I got an email from CVS Pharmacy saying that I won a $90 pharmacy gift card. And all I have to do is click the link that says confirm here. Isn't that awesome? I think I'll click on it.   Unless the gift that keeps on giving, Rick. Just like your mom.  I'm Rick. Yeah, come here. Oh, yeah. Yeah, right there. Today, we have a film companion interview. This is right here at Incheon. Oh, baby. And that's all I know. He spills the tea. Awesome. How long is this bad boy? 18 men. Oh, spectacular. Bring it on. And I saw in the title, like the little thumbnail, it said, like a quote from him and said, I'm finally tiring of cinema. It's interesting. It's what, so I'm guessing he says that at some point. That would be interesting to, I mean, he's old. He's been around for a long time. It's changed a lot. He's done a lot and I wonder. And maybe he's more theater. You like theater? We know he likes theater. Yeah. Well, I've had a very recent realization for myself, which is what birthed me doing Barbarian again and teaching acting classes. So I'm, I am excited to hear this thespian talk. Here we go. After 50, almost 50 years of acting in cinema, I think I'm finally tiring of it. Stars like to make this statement. You know, I've arrived. So it'll be like the Shah and Shah arriving, you know, Hoshia. What does that mean? I'm right. And then the door will open and the star will enter. It's like feet is delta blue on part two of January. We're all gone. Never forget our first, if you'd never seen our introduction to this man, watch our interview of Deborah, which is the, yeah, the review. There's Zindagi, Delbrun. Thank you. This is my first time interviewing you. So I'm going to do my best to not be intimidated. But I want to ask you what you do as an actor to ensure that when you're working with newcomers, you don't allow them to just get caught up with the aura that a good question can come with being starstruck on set. Absolutely. I don't get pleased when newcomers say we are so nervous and all that sort of thing. And I tell them, look, this is not a boxing match that you're involved in, not a contest. So there's nothing to be nervous about. And I, I'm one of those actors who's never felt nervous about acting. From the start. Call it vanity or call it whatever you like. But the fact is this, never ever have I felt any nervousness while acting, except when I have to do a romantic song. That's understandable. And I've always found it impossible to do. But I've worked with great actors like Dil Kumar Saab, Kamal Hassan and others. Why isn't Kamal Hassan a Saab? But I've never felt intimidated by them. I don't know either. Also because they were, both these gentlemen, they are thorough professionals and they know what they want to do. And I know what I want to do. So it's like two musicians doing a jugal bandi together. So I try to, I don't make friends easily and I'm not very good with the, you know, breaking the ice between people. But when I meet a younger actor on the set who I can see is terrified of the prospect, not only of me, of the camera, of the results, etc. So I try to put him at his ease by having a little chat, you know, putting an arm around his shoulder, reassuring him. I don't know whether I succeed or not, but I do, I do try. Yeah. And well, you are succeeding clearly because Z5 has reported some pretty staggering numbers on season one of Taj. How much of that feedback were you able to sort of assimilate and bring? He looks great in that role. Like a royal? Well, I'm happy that the series is doing well naturally. But I, once I've done a job I'm through. I don't anticipate anything. I put it on my memory shelf. I don't press erase button on them all. Some of them I like. Depends. So it's, it's, it's really not much consequence to me because I'm accustomed to all the ups and downs that can happen to an actor. And I've never had any anticipations of, of any kind from any work I do for me. Doing the work to the best of my ability is of prime importance. And I think I was taught this lesson very early in my career because my first film, Nishant, made in 1975, starred Ganesh Parnad, Shabana Azmi, Smita Patel, Ambrish Kuri, Oh wow! Oh geez! And after Nishant was released, every one of them got to work. Except you. For some reason, I, I later figured out that, that reason was in fact a backhanded compliment because people didn't think I was an actor. They thought I was some local that Shyam had picked up from Hyderabad. Oh geez! Which is a huge compliment. That is a compliment. Yeah. But the fact that I never got to work, it confused me and it made me, it gave me this lesson which I have never forgotten that do your job and forget about it, you know. You've got to do that as an actor, especially up and coming. You've been doing this work for 55 years now. That's more than half your life. Damn! He's been acting longer than I've been alive. What excites you about this current phase of your career? That I'm still getting interesting parts in fact. After the age of 50, I started getting more interesting parts than I got as a young man. Not a surprise. My reputation got established with all those art movies and everything. But really challenging parts I've received in the second phase of my career, in fact, or the third phase, whatever you like to call it. The job of participating in a project which I'm going to enjoy is what drives me. If I feel I'm going to have fun doing this, I do it. One can have fun for any one of a million reasons, you know. It could be the role, it could be the director you want to work with, it could be a month of shooting in Switzerland. It could be a ton of money. But then you have to do the number with the girl. It could be anything. But these days I prefer to play cameos because I'm kind of tired after almost 50 years of acting in cinema. I think I'm finally tiring of it. I'm still enjoying the stage very much. What a shock. I hate that you say that. It's the waiting that is brain damage. That's most of acting. The fact that you're already to go in a shot. It could be waiting around hours. All systems go and as you're about to go into it and you say, I wish this didn't happen. It's the nature of the beast. I don't complain about it. I've lived with it all this time. But I'm getting a little tired of it. I'd rather be on the stage where live contact is possible between you and the viewers. In fact, I just spoke to your wife very recently where she talked to me about what she fears is this threat of delusion with just the enormous entourage that actors have today. You walked in. I don't see anyone adjusting your collar or sort of pandering to you. Hey, someone come over here. Is it something you? Because he's not a movie star. Stay away from. I don't see the need to have these people hanging around me. I never have. Shabana early in my career would advise me to get a public relations man. And I said, why did I don't need a public relations guy? I can handle my public relations. I'm not going to be interested in it in any case. And I didn't have a personal makeup man for many years. And until until it became, you know, that I was doing several movies at the same time. All movies that I'd rather forget. But sometimes two shifts a day kind of thing traveling from Ali Bagh to Rhode Island and back, you know, that kind of stuff. So I realized that I can't be having a different makeup man each time. So as we wrote in on this, one person called Jay Raj, who was an assistant to one of the makeup men, he read makeup man, and he's been with me since. He's even my manager now. Oh, wow. He run a company and he's the only one I need. And I need somebody to get me a glass of water now and then or I can get it. Myself, I don't see them. I think stars like to make this statement, you know, I've arrived. So it'll be like the Shainshaa arriving, you know, Hoshi, Bada, Bambulazza, and then the door will open and the stars. I don't think of myself as a star. Exactly. And I find a lot of the behavior of stars rather, you know, immature. But you've actually placed a lot of hope in a lot of young talent as well. Is there like a word of caution you'd want to give them to just perhaps not lose track? Love the craft. Not to lose contact with life. You know, that's what happened. See, the reason a person like Nawazuddin or Pankaj Tripathi or the late was so good, so good, Nawaz and Pankaj Tripathi, or a guy like Tushan Devayya or a guy like Gajraj Rao, KK Manoj Bajpayee, marvelous actors. Agreed. No shock that those are the people who hear that. He's relative obscurity and middle class or lower middle class homes into and They're still grateful. Nawaz and Swarabdin, the transition has been gradual.  Swaraj cautioned them, if I may, is not to lose touch. The reason that these guys are so good is because they had real life to draw upon. Exactly. The more you become famous, the richer you become, the more isolated you become. And you lose touch with that. Touch with reality. Yes, absolutely. I suppose that's the requirement of a star in India. And the requirement of an actor is to be in touch with life. There are grey-haired guys who will dye their hair and then put white hair on it. It's true. I find it a bit hard to ask, but honestly I'm curious to know, is there an emotion that you still struggle to play on screen? Romantic songs. No, see sometimes the emotion can hit so close to home, to the bone rather, that it's discomforting. But then I don't take it personally. I don't try and become the character and feel everything he feels. It's good enough for me to represent what he feels. There was a time when I believed in trying to be the method. And the method still has a lot of useful things to offer, but this nonsense of becoming the character, I've always found ludicrous, because you can't and you shouldn't. If I decide to become the character I played in Goodbye Again, whatever it was called, welcome back. What is that? Then that means I have to go blind. Goodbye Again, I guess, right? I don't think it's an actor's job to suffer with the character. It's because Daniel is the goat, and so everybody thinks that you have to do that. Brando. Yeah, Brando. But we'll talk about that. But you took a while to get here because you've said that you were pretty hard on the sets of Jhani Bidoyaru, not nice to work at all. I mean, I would have, myself, I would have probably done something drastic to such an actor, because that was a time when I believed deeply in the method and believability and logic and all that. And Kundan was out to make the Marx Brothers kind of movie. I hadn't seen enough of the Marx Brothers then. So I found many situations in the film Ludicrous, and I said, this is not even going to be funny. I didn't find anything funny. I don't get it. What are we doing? None of us were laughing at ourselves while performing it. There's some of these that we should watch. Please let me know, obviously, in the comments. Ravi Vaswani. Wow, that's interesting. Kaushik, it's like fate has dealt a blow on part two of Jhani Bidoyaru. They're all gone. Yeah, so I gave Kundan a lot of grief, but I did apologize to him later when I saw the film. And I realized that I was mistaken and I was being unreasonable. I should have tried to get on to his wavelength instead of trying to get the film on my... Are you more trusting of your directors now? I was always trusting. I depend on my directors greatly. And I felt that Kundan was going wrong. I was mistaken. I felt it was going wrong. I don't know why I felt that. I think it's because, you know, after movies like Albert Pinto and Manthan and Junoon and so on, I was too much into this thing of logic and emoting all the time. An actor's only job is not to emote. It is to communicate. And Jhani Bidoyaru was a movie that wanted to get across a certain idea. It was not a comedy for the sake of making people laugh. It made people laugh, but it also disturbed them. Right? And maybe that's why it wasn't a big success when it was released in the theaters. But over the years, it's become a cult. And people see it now and they realize that this guy who made this movie was very farsighted to think of the no other, trying to make a sequel to it. And Kundan did try. Impossible. Because the corruption that it's talking about has now reached such humongous proportions that it would be a very expensive film to make. And secondly, he would be able to get all those actors to be other. Ever again. You also play a really terrible dad in Taj and, you know, someone really screws up his kids. In the real life front, how would you rate yourself as a father? I would rate myself as a father who tried his best. Aren't we all? It didn't always succeed. See, I was very conscious that my children should be friends with me. But, and they do try very hard not to take me seriously. And I try to say I would love them to, you know, sit and chat with me. But I don't know, they're a little bit, I don't know what the word is, uncomfortable. I think it's because of this reputation of mine. But I know I would open my veins for them if they needed it, you know. I would like them to be a little less anxious when they're around. You spoke of the reputation. Is there a price that comes with being outspoken in today's world? Not that I've had to pay. Yeah, you get hate messages and so on. I don't pay any attention to them. Yeah, all the time. I don't even look at them.  And I can tell by the letter, the look of the letter, because there'll be no address or sender's name on it. I don't bother about them. And it's not a question of being outspoken. It's this reputation of being this great actor, you know, which is a burden to carry around. I want, I really want to lighten up and I feel that I've been shortchanged because I never got enough chances to do comedy. Your wife talked about how comedy saved her. Yeah, exactly. And that's the last thing she expected. I think I'm not bad at comedy too, but... I say romantic numbers. Who makes romantic numbers? Instead of those, I wish they were comical numbers. But we don't obviously don't make good comedies. I mean, that's a fact. Tell me the last good comedy that you saw in this country.  Well, that's true. That was the last one?  I love what you said once about how... Telly Belly made us laugh. Yeah. I think there's been quite a few. There's been a lot of disappointed people won't remember you.  I'd like them to see Bar And I suppose, maybe, though, that's a comedy here. The others I'm certain they'll see on their own anyway. Masoom We saw that one. We liked that a lot. That was a classic month one. All generations of children. They all seem like they can't eat it today. It was shot 45 years ago. So I'm not concerned about that. That they're going to see anyway. Also, my son is still singing it. So what a legacy you've left behind. Yeah. Thank you. I was lucky to be in that film. Thank you so much for talking to me. I think I did well not being intimidated. So you actually helped me. Thank you so much. He's very introspective. Very. And like all great actors can listen to him all day long. Yeah. But yeah, it's funny. It's been in my mindset a lot in recent days because I alluded to this at the outset. I had a pretty big revelation recently. And out of that revelation came the acting classes I'm teaching and the doing Barbarian again. And the revelation I had. I haven't even shared this with you. It came out of a really an awful day that turned into a good day with Andrani and I. Yeah. Sex. I don't remember when or why I started doing this, but it was going on for too long of a time where the focus of my attention was representation, getting an agent, getting a manager, getting the audition, getting a callback, getting a headshot, getting a reel, going to the showcase, doing the one-on-one. And when those things weren't being accomplished, it was very deflating for me because I was looking at the clock and thinking, okay, the year is passing and I'm not doing things and my goals were okay. By this point, I want to have gotten a guest star. By this point, I want to have gotten a supporting role. By this point, I want to have done a film. By this point, I want to... Nothing about craft. Nothing about love. And I went back and I watched an old teaching series I did that I had created. It's a four-hour video series teaching on acting. And thanks to Andrani reminding me, she just straight up said to me at one point, why aren't you doing a play? And I realized I had become way, way too fixated on career instead of craft. And it really brought me back home to my love of the craft and the fact that if you're not careful, that's a word of warning is that if you're an actor in any industry, you can easily lose sight of the fact that you love the art form and become more fixated on becoming a star than just being a good actor. And he's made choices. I'm sure he's made choices. He looked back and he went, you know what? I was, I was just thinking movie star at that time, but... He said specifically, there's a lot I'd like to forget about. A lot I'd like to forget. And yeah, as far as I talk about this in the acting class a lot, Daniel Day-Lewis, the king of method, he in no way, shape or form prescribes that for others. He has said, I think the reason I have to do that is because I don't think I'm a good enough actor to do it any other way. Which is insane. It really is crazy. And I love, you know, Jeremy Strong is also notorious in succession and Brian Cox hates it.  And says, you know, just remember your lines. Remember your lines and don't bump into the furniture. That's Cox's process. But I understand for Jeremy, I've heard him talk about his process. What's his face, right? Yeah, he's Kendall. He doesn't have, as many actors, don't have the exact same process with each role. And that's something I would love to talk with him about. I would love to talk with him about process. I would love to talk with him about the differentiation between roles. Universal principles he has scribes to versus the times he has fluctuation and times he just throws it out the window. It's super interesting that Kendall subscribes to method. Because he's one of the actors that I don't think is as strong. Until maybe I think it's fact that he does that, I think he might get in his head a little bit. He might get in his head. I don't think he's a fine actor. I think he's good. And it's not a surprise. But he's not like it's an amazing actor. But I think it now makes sense. I think he gets in his head. But it's not a surprise that, well, so does Kendall. Kendall's in his head a lot. But it's not a surprise if you look at the resumes of the primary cast members of Succession, there's only one that doesn't have a huge theater background of stage and screen. They're all Thespians with roots. It's called Colic, yeah. Who's my favorite character on this? He's magnificent. He's beautiful. But there's a funny story about Strong on the last episodes they were filming. So they were filming on a soundstage that had obviously adjacent sets and sound stages. And this guy on another production saw him come in and he came in and he asked the production assistant where the bathroom was. And he went to the bathroom. Production assistant thought nothing of it. A PA from Succession comes into the soundstage. Says, was Jeremy just in here? Yeah. Was he asking where a bathroom is? Yeah. He's going around everywhere because the scene we're filming today, Kendall's asking for a bathroom and he's going around everywhere asking people where a bathroom is. That is how method his approach to Kendall has been.  Now you know why Cox loves him. It's just when it comes to their process, it's a completely other world. Bless his heart. Yeah. You can tell that he gets in his head. That's funny. Well, I mean, for Kendall it works. Obviously, Kendall's always in that one head. The bottom line of process for me, what I teach, my objective in teaching is to make acting. I say acting isn't easy, but it doesn't have to be hard. You can get to some basic foundations. And sadly, there's too many acting teachers who put you on this nonstop journey that never reaches its end because they want you to come back and continue taking classes. Versus, if I wanted to teach somebody how to do a triple time step in tap dancing, I have certain steps to teach them and then they execute them and then they're doing a triple time step. I believe the same is true with acting process that you can take all of these things and kind of whittle them down. And the bottom line, all process has one end in mind. Do we believe you? That's it. If the audience believes you, you've done your job. So whatever means it takes for you to achieve that end, that's why so many actors have different process. I have a hard time with acting classes because the reason I would like an acting class is not uncommon, it's just for practice. To do the work. Yes, absolutely. I've never learned something from somebody in a class that I'm like, aha. Oh, really? No, I've never learned something in a class that I was like, don't already know. I'm probably very similar to you. I'm just a very instinctual actor. And you're probably very similar to Christian Bale. Yeah, I'd say that. Yeah, totally. No, in terms of Bale, if you don't know, Bale doesn't have any formal training. He's self-taught. But yeah, I've been in classes. It's just normally they just annoy me a lot of times. Many can be annoying. Many can be very self-serving. Obviously, they work for people. Obviously, some people need these classes. I'm not a class-style person in any form of my life, not just acting. I'm just, that's not how I like to learn. You know, I do acting classes because of repetition.  Like, I'll re-watch something I do and be like, oh, yeah, I'm clearly doing something I shouldn't be doing there. One of the best things about a class, and this is something because I have, I'm starting off with just a one day and a three week, which are the fundamentals. And after you've done that, you apply the fundamentals to scene work. That's it. So my objective is after those four weeks. It's a one day and a three week. You go into a three week scene work study where you as the actor can choose any monologue or any scene you want to do. And we, you come off book week one. We run it. I give you notes. Second week, we run it and give you notes. And by the third week, it should be stage or set ready because that's what the industry expects of you. You need to be ready to present this thing. And I don't see a lot of acting classes that really get you that quickly on your feet and have it all under your skin. Yeah, good. And that's, I want to, he's an amazing actor. One of the goats. And the people he referenced, obviously, are all the, some of them are our dose that was so honored to have interviewed. I would love to see her as a dose. Oh my goodness. But he, I've been told he doesn't like doing a lot of interviews, especially video. He does not like doing video interviews. I think, I think if he was, I think if he was told and guaranteed that our only objective is to talk craft, maybe nothing but the art form and to talk about theater process, which schools of training he's been exposed to because I promise there's some things he's been exposed to. We're predominantly exposed in acting process to all Western teachings. We're, it's Stanislavski, it's, he's Russian, but that's the Western modality for acting systems come from Stanislavski and then Strasberg and Adler and Udohagan and Meisner. And there's a list of contemporaries now, but there are a lot of contributors to the art form in India who have a completely different approach to the craft. And for me, as much as I know there's universal principles, I tell my class that I view my thing as, my approach as basically kind of like the constitution. I have principles that I think work, but it's open to amendments. It's a living document and I don't claim to know at all. You have objections, tell me, you may teach me something and I'll go, you know what, that's better. Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, if there were movies that he referenced in there that we definitely should be watching, please let me know what they are. Let me know what they are. I would love to watch, obviously, everything he's ever done because he's such a great actor. Beautiful. Please let us know down below.


Hi everyone, Joe for Jaspy's casewrakes.com coming at you with the 10 team number block randomizer for premier hockey Which is coming up in a separate video right after this This is how the number blocks work if you're not familiar with it and these are the teams involved 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Perfect those are the teams involved and these are the people involved in the number block. Thank you for getting in Let's roll it. Let's randomize it 6 and a 1 lucky 7 times 1 2 And 7th and final time after 7 we've got Wesley lowering down to Robert Lenny 6 and a 1 7 times for the team teams for the numbers 2 3 4 and 7 final time after 7 we got 0 down to 1 remember 0 gets you any and all redemptions for those 10 teams including one-of-one redemptions and But Robert you'll still get any live one-of-ones All right, so West with 0 and 2 Jack L with 9 Robert with 4 and 8 Josh with 3 Mark with 6 William with 5 Sean Maddock with 7 and Robert L with 1 Let's order those numerically right there and just as a quick reminder. These are the teams involved Those are the teams involved right there So there you go coming up in a separate video will be the break itself Jaspy's casewrakes.com