And we are back, thank you for staying with us and you know being a Tuesday as I had said we want to talk about entrepreneurship and today we are exploring investment between Kenya and diaspora businesses a very interesting topic especially if we have been thinking of you know investing you know if you are in the diaspora, if you know someone in diaspora who's been thinking of investing in Kenya or even vice versa for this particular topic we've been joined by an expert she is Mary Muturi as the CEO of Jambalist thank you thank you so much it's a pleasure for me to be here thank you for having me this morning yes and I'm glad that I'm here yeah we can explore this topic definitely we're glad to have you so before we delve into the topic maybe you can give us your background because you have been in the diaspora for quite a long time and even that forms the basics so the foundation of how you formed your company Jambalist and why are you the experts to give us this advice so tell us about your experience thank you so much as you have said my name is Mary Muturi I'm the chief executive of Jambalist limited and this is a company that is founded or was founded by three ladies both two of the partners are in the US and myself I'm here but it just didn't get done before we started or I joined Jambalist before we founded Jambalist I used to work with the United Nations I worked there for more than 27 years and I retired in 2019 and I somehow I find myself back home so and so we founded this company three years ago actually during the COVID time and it was more to be able to meet the demands of the Kenyans diaspora in the diaspora at that time having lived in the US for more than 30 years we and also my partners have also lived there for a long time and therefore you know most of the people friends you know people at the UN the ones that I used to work with they'll gravitate towards us to find out about information you know I would get calls though I was not working for the Kenyan mission you can't imagine how many people used to call me to find out how can I get a passport how can I get you know visas or you know all those things and because of out of and then it's like the Kenyan community started growing in the diaspora and of course with the population and people having families then you know you start all those normal lives where now you have got Kenyans who have got families have got children and you start the ask again asking where can we get a good apartment where can we get a house or where can I get somebody who wants to cook and braid my children or I've got something happening over the weekend do you know somebody who does this or that catering or and therefore we started an online platform where all these people asking us questions and we keep on telling them they can all start putting that information on an online platform where instead of us having to tell them the information is like okay we gear them to our website and tell them why don't you just go to jambolist.com and there you'll be able to look for what you want if it's a Kenyan church a plumber who can be able to help you their plumbing issues are catering and also the people who have got businesses we also told them go to the jambolist.com register your online your business there it is free of charge we don't charge people listing their businesses there okay so that's how jambolist started and therefore we gravitated and became an advertising and marketing company and through the marketing we were able to have a virtual expo in 2022 which was very successful we had companies which were actually from here and also companies from the diaspora we opened we did it through zoom because that was what was there during that time during COVID you know everything was zoom as jambolist we find we held parties we held baby showers we held matanga everything virtually and it was very it worked it was very successful before we didn't know how it was going to be whether it was going to be successful but with this you know these three ladies were able to pull out these services for the community for free and but now when it came to jambolist now there are people want to advertise on our platform then we decided okay we can do this for business so that's how jambolist was born and we have invited people to come and join us last year we had first physical export and again it's because of the demand the people who joined us for our virtual they wanted to be able to do it physically you need to come with our production yes which they want to bring their own merchandise there they want to come and showcase what they do they want to be able to explain to the people and of course it's easier to sell when we are talking one-on-one other than on the phone the other reason why jambolist was actually formed is we have been swindled and some those are some of the challenges that you find in the diaspora yeah a lot of people who had gone there during my time a lot of them were not able to travel back to Kenya frequently and regularly so you found that okay they have got money they have been working they want to invest here they want to build a house even for themselves they would trust that money to their parents to their relatives to companies but eventually when they were able to come here they find nothing has been done and they have already sent too much money so and of course you know these are the things that jambolist wanted to make sure that I being in Kenya I'm the one who is on the ground I can be able to go under certain whether that business is true whether this company really exist sure so let me let me ask just to interject a bit so if there's someone in diaspora and their interest is to build a house in Kenya so how do you how do you come in how do you confirm is it through you that they build the house or through whoever they choose but now you are the one to just make sure that it's happening what we have done is that we have partnered with business people business companies in Kenya where we have already done our due diligence that this is a good company this is a company that exists it has been in existence for a long time the directors are legit and therefore we bring these business people with a diaspora who want to invest and they invest through them so we have got very many people who want to work with us we have got contractors who is like okay I'm here I would want you know if you have got people want to build you can introduce them to us so what we do we introduce these businesses to the diaspora people yes all right that makes a lot of sense yeah because we have had a lot of stories you know you've been sending money then when you come what you actually requested for what you were seeing you know it's not even barely a shadow of what you wanted or you know in some cases together nothing has been done completely they're actually sending you pictures of someone's house that is being built it's very devastating because I understand the people in diaspora you know they really work for their money they do they work they work 20 almost like 24 hours you know yeah you have doubles but because they have got goals and they have got this in mind and they also want their families to uplift their families you know that is the other thing that the diaspora people do they just don't work for themselves and you find that they get devastated when they have really been helping their relatives their siblings to come up and they take advantage of them because and that's again why we want jambolist to be there to educate our friends in the diaspora don't always just send your money to people because retirement and old age comes very fast before you know it yeah so it catches up very fast so with jambolist we are here to tell also try to invest and that is also what the department of the diaspora is doing you know again remittances and the money coming to that to Kenya from the diaspora not only from the US but from all over the world where Kenyans are has been helping and building this country but wanted you know just don't send money for people to live on and all that also think about yourself think about your old age because sometimes it's very difficult to really invest as a Kenyan in the diaspora for something that you can say okay I can live on this but it's easy to invest in this country because you know your country better yeah and they can be able to do invest here in a way that they'll have a comfortable retirement and that's what we are you know as jambolist we are always selling to our diaspora friends you know we are based in the US we are also have got linkages with Mexico we have got linkages with Canada and we are also going to be of course expanding to other countries in due time just to let people know yes you can and it is safe to invest in Kenya and you can have your return if you invest wisely in Kenya okay well I think that's wonderful and truly it helps with the economy you can build our country as a Kenyan there you're still investing you're helping yourself when you're helping the country at the same time so we have talks about investing in Kenya you know but and you'll get to some some of the great investments options that are there what about Kenyans investing in the diaspora you know are there possibilities are there opportunities for Kenyans who are don't really plan going to the diaspora but what to set up businesses there yes it is possible and thank God you know our government is trying very hard because you know the president you know has been talking about exporting and less importing so it's how now to get the routes to be able to really take our products out of Kenya the government is working hard to do that I know of a lady who has been selling academia in the US she was doing very well but unfortunately because of COVID it has slowed but you know after COVID things I hope you know they are picking and to be able to go back to where she was we have got now at least you can go to a shop or a supermarket in the US and find a gene made in Kenya so so they are the Agua also and that is something that I think Kenyans need to be taught and or to be told more about it because that is how the trade between the US and Kenya that Kenyans can take advantage of we have not taken advantage of Agua for the long that has been there but and that's why those that don't know Agua expand a little bit more yeah it's those the business is between the US and Kenya and we are glad that this year we have got the CS for investment trade and industry who is our keynote speaker and who is our guest for our export this year and wanting her to come and talk more of the opportunities that are there between Kenya and the US and we have also got a lot of you know their people we I know there is a county of Kourinaga also you know has been exporting coffee and they have they have been doing it for some time now I was speaking to a lady who is in artisan and just the small time business people would want to be able to work with them in the future to see how they can be able to sell their merchandise because right now we have been talking to earlier say but you know you have been working with big companies but as we are small companies we cannot be able to compete because their products are not like if you sell a mansion which is 17 million and when we are going just to sell you know necklaces clothes those ones there are small things but yet they are very marketable in the US so it's just how can we be able to package for them to be able to profit so there's a lot of opportunities from here to Kenya to the US and to other countries I believe yeah but also is how the government is able to assist the Kenyans especially because we have got people who would want to invest in agriculture and agricultural products are a bit sensitive yeah so it's how can we be able to package them to be acceptable in the countries outside I am glad at least we have got a direct right now to the US and they can be able to have to shorten the time that they used to take when they'll be a layover in another country we can get to the US so while Kenya was more or less limited to the European countries when it came to agricultural products but I believe in future we shall be able to also have be able to market more of the agricultural products they are you know there are people who in technology of course Kenya is high in technology and that is something that in future also can be especially for the youth because we'd like to bring the jobs which are in Philippines which are in India where they are they have got the places where they can call and get the information you know we can want would want to be able to have a call center in Kenya instead of having you know these are things that are you know to be explored and example is this exploring some of these things what are the businesses that we can be able to say okay we can form a call center in Kenya for a business in the US and they and you know and I know that the ICT department or the minister of ICT is also looking into that how they can be able to have you know such businesses so their business is that the opportunities the opportunities out there you don't even have to travel it we are in the age of digital marketing you know technology is helping yeah technology is helping yeah wonderful because I know there's a lady I saw a story of a lady who is selling chapatis something as small as chapatis I think it was in the US yes make a good money out of it exactly would you have thought that you can ship chapatis no no but there's a lady who is actually in Maryland who does who does the mandazis the samosas the chapatis and she's shipping them in the whole of the United States whatever you are in fact not even that I saw somewhere a Kenyan in the US say they can ship those the same products to the US to the US yes you can if you do your chapatis here and you freeze them yeah like the way the people carry their own you can still do it if you have got a market yeah you freeze them and it gets done people enjoy people enjoy you know yes so that is exactly what we are trying to really all these more small businesses and big businesses bringing them together and you know and as I said this year we have got the jamboree's expo which is going to be on the 24th I feel that 26 in New Jersey and it is a second one that we are having our keynote speaker CS Miano and we that we have had the president is also going to the has been has been invited by the president of the United States for a state dinner for a state visit and we have extended an invitation actually to the president if he can be able to also attend the expo after the dinner because I believe the dinner is on the 23rd so it falls during it is false during that time so I hope that the president can even hear us and be able to come and grace our because I'm sure he will bring a lot of good information to the diaspora people we and it would be like a linkage between the diaspora conference 2023 that was held here last year in December it can be an extension because so many people are left with questions so many people want to you know to interact with the government jamboree's is well versed and is well placed to be able to bring government and the diaspora people together so we have invited the president we are hoping that we can receive our confirmation soon for the invitation to the United States great so let me ask speaking of the government has the government created an easy business you know I'm business investment for people in the diaspora here in Kenya because sometimes people are saying you know one of the taxes at least were really going high we were saying that it's not creating a good business environment for Kenya for people to invest in Kenya do you think this is do you think this is the case or things are a bit different I lived in the United States for more than 30 years I used to pay for my property taxes and I could even it was around nine thousand dollars and we pay taxes in the US I was talking to a friend of mine who is also in the US because you know I'll be beaten by people here in this but you know and she was complaining that there's a lot of taxation in Tanzania so I think what it is is that we only know about ourselves in Kenya and we possibly don't know much about the other countries how they are performing so we think that possibly it's just as Kenyans who are being taxed or who are paying these taxes but again you know you find that different people have got different views and therefore we let people just you know have their views but we also you know the dollar has been going down not a long time ago it was 163 of course the diaspora people were very happy when it was 163 because they could invest very easily the dollar would multiply but as in Kenya we were hurting when it was too high today I believe it is about one and the other two and it is still going down so again you know so I think there's something happening we don't know you go to the supermarket a few things are going down we don't talk much about that but I believe I think we are on the you know on the right track but yes there are things the government is doing a lot to be able to at least bring these people to be able to invest easily the only thing that I find missing is sometimes the diaspora the Kenyan diaspora don't have enough information of what to invest here in terms with the government housing property where the government is not involved it's easy to do that but I would want the CES when she comes to the United States to be able to explain to the Kenyans what is it that you can be able to do here what are the projects that a Kenyan in the diaspora or a group of Kenyans in the diaspora can be able to do and tangible things we have been told before you can you know the diaspora can come and engage in construction in infrastructure but you know how it is even to get a tender to just wash more road it's so difficult so if there would be a few things which are dedicated for the diaspora and therefore it is only the diaspora people will send tenders there it's only the diaspora people who will be able to access this then that would help the diaspora people because then they'll be a director so this is just for the diaspora and therefore we don't have you know people saying going behind the doors and whatever of course Kenya is Kenya but at least would want you know for the for the Kenyan government to do that I know the affordable housing has been talked about a lot yeah the president also mentioned about it during the conference the diaspora conference 2023 that the diaspora people can also be able to invest in the affordable housing and they can be able to buy for themselves they can be able to buy for their relatives and what would want to do as jamborees is really to be able to be the connecting factor between the government because you can get all this information on our game on our website what we have tried to do as jamborees is the things a few things that affect the diaspora we put it on our website you can't imagine sometimes it's so difficult to get information I people don't read a lot people don't do research they want to give a courgette's call so and so to give you the information I've been here since 2022 and I still receive calls from the US how can I get this and I'm here it's easy but of course because again people are used to that but now we have been leading people to jamborees.com to go and get all this information we want to be able to put the link is linkages between the embassy the US embassy the Kenyan embassy in the US with jamborees so that people can go they can tell people okay you want your ID you want your passport you want you know okay you don't know where to go to jamborees you'll be able to get all these things so go to jamborees.com so we are building that to be able to meet the needs for our Kenyan diaspora so yes the projects I believe that the Kenyans can be able to take advantage of but they do not know how they do not know where and that's why we have the CS for for investment trade and industry coming to the US to give us more explanations and to be able to explain these things I'm sure she'll also be able to explain about taxes because again there's a fear that the diaspora will be taxed twice yeah in the US and here and over here yeah so that one again hinders the business but I've talked to banks and they say no usually they don't they but they have to have to have a form that they fail but we need to have that confidence that there's no double taxation because then why do that you business exactly make sense yes so and then of course we also want to be able for those who cannot be able to travel we want for them to have an easy way of transacting their businesses through banks because sometimes the banks ask for information that they cannot be able to have they are there and they don't have so it's a there's a lot of working together with the government with the people and all that yeah and we have to thank the department for diaspora because now they have started at least taking mobile services consular services to different places different cities and because one of the things that was very difficult to do is getting IDs when you're in the diaspora that one the department has been able to cover through the mobile consular services also the if the passports and also how to get other birth certificates other documents offered by the government that are required by the diaspora people and you know this this year at least in that in the US we have got in Massachusetts they are going there they're also going to Texas and they're going to Washington those are three states that you know those who are in those states can take advantage and be able to go and get their services done okay we have also gotten in touch with the ministry with the department for diaspora to see whether they can bring those services during the expo so that those who are in New Jersey those who are in Massachusetts you know Massachusetts will not be able to have gotten their things done they can get it they can come during the expo you have had it before and therefore I believe we can also be able to have those consular services in New Jersey during the expo okay yeah that's that's wonderful and it was about to ask you know the investment opportunities or options that you've said that the CS would be able to advise better you know when is when she comes for the expo so let me ask now when those that are going to the expo are from Kenya because that for those that have a market or the target market is that people are brought so how do they travel do you do they get in touch with you with the generalist to facilitate their travel that maybe make it faster yeah so do does your company help with what we do is we try to start our processes early so that those who are interested in coming because we have got no way of doing with with the the American Embassy in the U.E. in Kenya here they have to apply there's no shortcut about that but also there are those who already have visas who can travel and they have got no they are not inhabited by lack of visas so we do the processes early we advertise early and tell the those who are interested to please apply for their visas early enough so that they can have at least the interviews before May before the expo okay yeah alright great as we close up on this what are some of the challenges faced by clients and even investors yes I mentioned those challenges first of all is those who do not have documents to travel okay and therefore they have been swindled because they cannot be able to really to travel to go and asserting that what they're being told is true is there is a reaction and when eventually when they get to be to come to the US to Kenya they look for those companies and they don't have the offices anymore the offices are closed they have lost their money and you know hard and money you know the other is of course are the challenges of not knowing what are the investments which are readily available for them here and also the people you know how with the banks how to work together the banks for them to be able to finish their you know to finish their transactions and all that but we are happy that we have been able to partner with banks last year we had DTB who came to the expo and they were able to talk the people this year we are hoping that we have a few you know a bank that will also come over and be able to give the services of about we have approached KCB we have approached Consolidated we have approached equity and we are just waiting to hear who will come on board so that they can be able to go and to be there but also you have got banks which have toward the US you know before then okay yeah that's great finally you know this being a youth channel some babies a young person is listening in and say ah this is probably not mine you know it looks a bit big and in my team it's for a person at a certain caliber you know in status so how do you advise young people to even tap into this this opportunity that's there in the diaspora yeah you can't believe it but we have got very many young people now who are interested in investing in Kenya one of the things that you know for the youth in the US for the young adults who are coming up you know our children who are there who are born there they are now in their 20s we have got doctors they've got lawyers and what I would want to advise them is not just to get close and think that there's nothing really in Kenya but is to be able to come and visit or their parents to bring also to start bringing their children early enough for them to start enjoying the country and showing them don't just take your children to the village to say hello to the grandmother to the grandparents but show them what other Kenyans are doing I have a friend who came last year with the family she has got a young girl a young adult and also a youth a teenager almost a young adult and they visited a lot of businesses around and we have got a couple who lived in the US in California they're building a very big building in the on Riverside they went and so these are Kenyans who are doing it so they have to be shown that there are things that are happening there is not just when they just go to the village they're not they see oh you know it's like they are in an uncomfortable zone so they're not but I tell you now I've got one of my partners the son came here and he has said he doesn't want to go back he wants to study here he wants to stay here so there is a future in this country for the youth when they come here they see the transformation they understand the culture we have got a very open culture you go you are YouTube people yeah you go to the YouTube and see all the youth especially those who visited from Nigeria from Ghana they are youtubers and they come here they say how great Kenya is yeah we just need to advertise Kenya better in a positive way and Jambulis has also got an a youth a young adult branch called Ipad where we try to educate young adults of the things that they can find in Kenya in colleges and all that and also in the US so we start train showing them their things that you can do in Kenya before we started the station mentioned about a young man who is a New Yorker who studied in New York yeah and he has traveled around Africa there's got a few states but now he's in Kenya because he sees opportunities in Kenya so these are the people that would want to bring together as youth to speak to the youth to speak to the younger adults and be able to encourage them to come and invest in Kenya because it's very doable okay yes we have we take our country for granted sometime yes I think we also don't advertise it very much in a positive way yeah like now fun enough what a lot of the diaspora are talking is about the floods on the expressway and the waters you know and you know that one happened one night okay we suffered that one night I being one of them but yesterday you're driving everything is dry every business is back you know to normal to normal went and say that you can drive through the expressway without a problem nobody we never went back to say that you know definitely you know jamborees would be able to link up with you and bring you some of the youth maybe you can talk to them of and then see what can you be able to do with them what is it that can be able to sell exactly yes we can definitely that can definitely happen because we're all about the youths and you know empowering ourselves and you know doing all that all right so how can people get you use your website or maybe social media platforms if they want to reach out this is your camera yes again we are actually present you know all media platforms we are on Facebook as jamborees.com we are on X we are on our tiktok we are on Instagram and also we are on jamborees.com and we have also got jamborees.com for the expo that is going to take place in May 24th and 5th and 6th it's a memory weekend it's the beginning of summer that's when everybody is now tired to just remove their jackets and have a good time the swimming pools are open that time we are also going to have a barbecue for the community on the 26th it will be on a Sunday and you know everybody is of course invited even those who are in the diaspora those who are in the tri-state and anywhere from the diaspora and my number here that if you want to reach to me is 0742-287-666 again 0742-287-666 my name is Mermuturi and I'm glad and I'll have the pleasure of connecting you to be into our expo in the first place and also to show you where else you can be able to invest in the diaspora and the places that you can be able to go to thank you thank you very much for having me this morning and I'm sure you know we are on the right track as tenants and investments and our government is doing so much so that we can be able to have more over the exports instead of the imports and jambolists is in a place where we can be able to partner with all interested people with the government with the institutions you know anybody who wants to really get we can be able to be able to invest to advise them what to do not only in the US but also in Canada in Mexico and also as your friends in another place that we are reaching out to okay great thank you very much once again this has been Mermuturi the CEO of jumbo jumbo list limited and I hope it's again a thing or two about that from this conversation and you've opened your mind to investing there are a lot of opportunities you know as a diaspora here in Kenya and there's a lot we can do as Kenyans because there's a lot of potential in our country so now I'm going to take a short break and then we'll be back with more to in comments and another conversation follows right after that stick with us


Our next session is decoding the next big pivot for the music industry for our new viewers. This is Preeti Katpal, your host from Mumbai and we're celebrating World Music Day brought to you by LoveThis.in with showcase brought to you by Exchange for Media and BW Business World. Well, it's time to welcome our second panel. We have the Prince of Bangra joining us here. Team, do we have him here? Yes, are we ready to welcome him? Alright, let's get ready to welcome our second panel. We're going to talk about decoding the next big pivot for the music industry. First up, we have MD and President PDC Network. Please give a warm welcome to Mr. Ravindranarayam. Hi Hamid. Very warm welcome, sir. I hope you are in love with music like all of us. Would you tell me which is your favorite genre of music? Since I look off of Punjabi, so I would say Punjabi is that's what the beat is right now. That's what is making the world go around. So Punjabi music. Alright, yes, sir. We're talking about music and Punjabi music, which makes us dance. I can also see Siddharth here with me. Well, he's a German CEO of Event Crafters, Siddharth Chaturvedi. Hi Siddharth, how are you? Very good, P.P. Happy World Music Day to all of you and everyone really delighted to be here today and looking forward to a great engagement. Well, it's wonderful to have you here. You've also done a lot of events, music related events, correct? Yeah, I've been a festival for these, we've done many music festivals. So yeah, we're very excited to listen to the journey and a lot more. Well, before that, we also have composer, music director, Shamid Tandon. Has he joined us? And I'm really excited to meet the Prince of Bangra, Sukhbiri. Do we have Sukhbiri joining us? Team, can we have them on? Alright, so let's get ready for our next session, which will be led once again by the CEO of Showcase Events. Once again, please welcome Nani Singh. Oops, sorry, sorry, I didn't realize that. Sorry. Hi Siddharth, nice to see you here again. Always good to see you. And hi Ms. Siddharth, I'm good to see you again. So thank you Preeti and a perfect day to meet up yet again. And I just saw a message saying that I'm moderating the session. So lovely. We are waiting for, I think Sukhbiri joining us from Dubai. And I don't know where Shamid is just now. So I guess he joined us some stage. But however, because we've got there's a certain time that's been allocated. So let's get cracking. So, you know, talking about introductions and talking about knowing more about you. So I think best would be if you tell us about yourselves, about your connection and your musical journey and your, what does music mean to you? Because today we're going to be moving on to decoding the next pivot. So but first let's understand what music means for us. So over to you Mr. Nala and let's hear from you. Music for me is life.  And as they say, the entire world was created out of a beat of the sound of home. And that's the creation sound. And since we run about six Punjabi channels, and three of them are music channels, PDC Music, PDC Chakde and PDC Gold TV. Plus we have a record label, PDC Records, where we record those who cannot afford to record and make their videos and record music. We help them. We do about 500 to 600 original songs in a year under PDC Records. Then we have a streaming app where we stream all this content. Plus we have 19 beams going across the world where the world is enjoying the Punjabi music. And I would say the success of Punjabi music has been the Punjabi channels led by PDC and others, Tashan, Nemechwan and the likes. And Punjabi music as we know, today rules the world everywhere you go. We had Canada, Australia, Dubai, USA and far away places like New Zealand, Belgium, Spain. I've seen packed houses in Spain listening to Malkeet Singh's live show. And so Punjabi music is across the globe. And right now it's the Indian music is known with the Punjabi music. I would say the sound of Punjabi music has made Indian music popular. The other forms of Punjabi music which are now emerging, the rap, the fusion, the folk pop and all those new things which are coming in. They are making it more popular amongst the not just the non-Punjabis, but even the non-Indians. The audiences abroad in US, Canada, UK, Australia, Belgium, Rome, the whole of Europe I would say. People are listening to Punjabi music and Punjabi music is conquering the world by its ability to adapt and to merge and to fuse with other forms and to inspire them. That's right. That's right.  This might interest you as well. It's like I was down in Greece for a Thalassimia conference which is like a few years ago and down in the small place called Thessaloniki. So you know, you wouldn't even think anybody would understand.  So there's a lot of rich culture over there and art and culture and music and art. And of course, you know, like every conference has a gala, dinners in the evening they had this music, et cetera. And we had a big delegation from India over there, but people were there from across the world. We were about 1500 delegates for that conference. So then came the Greeks had put together this musical evening and they came up with their instruments. So there was this big instrument which looked like a dhol. Okay, and beautifully they were playing pretty. I want to do our rhythms, but they were slower rhythms and they were playing their rhythms, et cetera. We had one Serdi in our delegation. So after a while of, you know, listening to their music and the patients, you know how it is after a few drinks down, the patient was kind of wearing out. He just went and he said, can you hold? And there was language was a big barrier because they couldn't understand what he was saying. He said, can you hold? And the guy said, yeah. He said, sticks. He took the sticks and he started playing the Punjabi dhol. All the people who were sitting were on the floor. All the people, then they had on the pendrive, they had Gudunalu Ishgvitha. They gave it to the sound guy, the DJ. There was no DJ, I mean the sound guy. They gave it to him to plug it into the laptop and played it. Everybody was on the floor and the song was played in a loop. So all exactly like, you know, retracing what you just said is like Punjabi music has captured the world and a non-Indian audience. But it's the rhythm. It's the rhythm in the music. The sound is so powerful. And we were all on the floor. I think we probably danced for two hours after that and there was no stopping. The beauty of the Punjabi music is that it has passion in it. And that's what moves everyone who listens to the Punjabi music. Even the softer songs. It's not just about the Gudunalu Ishgvitha. Even the song is about the night. Like where? Look at the softness in that song and how it goes on and on. You see the boliyan and tape, two lines tell you the whole story. Look at the poetry even. Probably the closest to this would be Haiku in Japan. But this is amazing stuff and it's doing very well. It's finally got its glory in live music. And similarly the Indian music writing on the Punjabi wave is getting its glory now. Absolutely. And I'm so glad that in our lifetime we've seen musicians making a career out of it, making money out of music. Perennially if you've seen from the olden times the classical music or the folk music, they would live in penury. I mean, masters would be on their deathbed where nobody is able to look after them. And look at the music stars now. They're driving the Ferraris and the audience. And they're getting 40 lakhs a show or 25 lakhs a show. So that's a brilliant thing which has happened. Musicians can actually make a living out of music. A profession out of it. Earlier it was a passion and then one just kind of dived into it. Look at Ustad Bismillah Khalsa. You get goosebumps when you see what he has done with the Chennai. And then look at the way he went and that one which I mean he was alone when he died, not a person and not nothing to, you know, there's no palace that he went in. So I agree with you. And that's just the fact, yes, I think it is. Similar to the story of Mendy Hassan, Edo Sheri, all these people. Totally. Nobody knew what happened and when they went. And they're all Padma Sheri's and Padma Vibhushan's and you know, yeah, very true. That is really true. So Siddharth, you see, you've been doing, you've been working so closely with music for so many years. And so how do you see this trend changing with the music and musicians? Mendy, it's been a long journey. You know, it started, I mean, of course, music has always been there. But I'm talking about the whole evolution and the whole, I'll say revolution which is, which we are seeing today, you know, in music is thanks to a lot of stuff which happened in the early 90s, you know, a lot of credit goes to MTV coming in in India, you know, channel V at that point of time, you know, starting music videos and stuff from India got into this thing of, oh, there are, there are music videos available to watch apart from those movie songs. So, you know, the whole ball, I mean, of course, Bollywood has been predominantly dominating the music scene in our country. I'm talking about popular music per se. And so, but this whole evolution of independent artists coming in and a lot of new music happening in the early 90s and 2000, actually we saw, I mean, pandemic has been a big boost to a whole independent music scene in our country. And it has evolved and revolutionized like nobody's business. $1.2 billion is an estimated figure of what independent music has made during the pandemic.  And yeah, I mean, you could be anyone, you could be singing anything. The divide of genres, the divide of, you know, the whole, you know, legacy of wherever you're coming from has broken big time. You know, today, if you have it in you, if you can write like nice lyrics, if you can have some great tune, if you can have some great, you know, poetry or anything or any expression which could be musical, I think we're living in, I mean, time has come that golden age of music in India has arrived. And it's going to be big time now because the global giants are here, you have the Spotify and YouTube music, they are really, I mean, there's a whole more going on in terms of digital, you know, space distribution. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we have, we've been blessed with the number game, you know, we have 1.2 billion people. We are the consumers, which is one of the largest 2027, we will cross China. So we would be the largest consumer economy.  This will increase phenomenally because you will start choosing, you would be, you want to go ad free, you want to go, you want to download your music, you want, so eventually this will all help the musicians get the revenue, eventually this will, and this whole, this whole, this whole thing of streaming is bringing a whole lot of transparency, you know, in terms of, you know, who's consuming what, who's actually listening to your music and, you know, and, you know, somewhere, I feel it's one of the best times to be musicians in the country. And next five years is going to be I mean, this is going to be, this is going to be a very different economy altogether, the music, music economy. Yeah, things have taken up, the pandemic is definitely helped, especially the independent artists, because you know, I think during the pandemic itself, the social media was always a support system earlier, but social media has taken off during, because that was our only resource, right? That's the only thing that everybody went to as a, you know, so that was the only path forward. And I think where so many YouTube stars have come up, and you know, the other good thing, I mean, that you must have noticed as well is that earlier, like we used to say, okay, the artists go to a studio, they record a song, the voices get auto-tuned, and you know, they're kind of melodigned and all that kind of stuff, but when you're performing on social media, there's no melodining and auto-tuning. So it is what you are. And I think that has helped create some very good artists. So people have actually spent time practicing, rehearsing so that they could sing better on their, on their Instagrams and on their YouTube's and then put out songs, they learned how to create music at home, they learned how to digitize their content and put it out. And I think, yeah, you're right, I mean, the pandemic has helped us decode our next step forward. Mostly thanks to, thanks to not much Bollywood coming under that duration also. If you had to hear new music, it was coming out of independent artists. The Spotify, Redar, India, that particular streaming channel has been viewed so much and thousands and thousands of musicians which have come up, come up big because of that.  So it's become so easy because going through publishing and recording labels was always a tedious affair. It's a process. It's a process that's happening that you're chosen one or you're not. So again, the whole independence, it's a real independent scene happening right now. And I'm so glad that we are living in this time that today, any musician who wants to, who has it in him can become a start tomorrow.  It wasn't that you just had to see a single chapter just to become a famous person. It wasn't that they were singing their own song. In fact, Hangama, I remember when Sharmini was working on this project and they came up with this thing of independent musicians to promote them in the setup that app, they tied up with Big FM. And I often make it a point to hear that program because it is independent artists and they've actually managed to get them a platform on the radio.  People are going to listen to it. And so I feel the radio channels do kind of need to give us space for independent musicians and not just play, you know, only Bollywood stuff. As much as I totally respect Bollywood, I have nothing against Bollywood, of course. You see that they're also in radio channels also. People are doing it. See, this is going to become mainstream like nobody's business. I'm telling you, five years down the line, everyone will be, I mean, the bigger stars themselves will say, I mean, there are so many bigger stars which are claiming that I'm an independent musician. You know, I'm an independent musician. Correct. Yeah, you're right. I just explained that 50% of the music which is now playing on PDC Music Channel is created by individual artists. And the biggest success story, I'll say this is the I completely agree with Siddharth because the artists learn that they don't need the big studios, all the musicians sitting together and then making music. Now I can do my audio at my home studio, send the track to the music director who will then get a guitarist from maybe London and he'll get a flottist from Spain or Tabla player from Jalandhar and then they will collaborate send their own tracks and it will all be mixed. And now suddenly you're sitting at home and here you have a brilliantly mixed track.  So she would record her audio, then the flottist was in Jalandhar, the Tabla player was in Mohali and the guitar, my son plays guitar, he was in Oxford. And then he was mixing the sound in London there and sending the track back on which we were then creating the music video and then the song was out and everybody is being together and you have suddenly you don't need an air manager to notice you, you don't need to go out and give your samples or plead with people to record them or release them or spend your own money and create stuff. And if you don't have money, then you are actually selling something and in the past this used to happen that you're doing some job and in the free time you're creating some sort of music as a hobby. Now suddenly you can reach millions, you're creating music at home, collaborating with the best of the talent, creating those tracks, creating those videos and suddenly they're out there. The mushroom cloud I would say of the music that burst during Corona is now engulfing everyone and suddenly the opportunity are there and people are getting noticed. Careers are being made, people are making living out of creating music on their own, which was unheard of earlier. It's happening now. So in the artist's collaboration, exactly like you said, it was fantastic because I know so many artists, there's a bass guitarist here and she's collaborating with the flottis somewhere else. There's another singer here, she's collaborating with the rapper across the world. So at the end of the day, they're putting together a video and they're presenting, you would actually think they're sitting, standing together in the same studio and doing it. So that is where I think digital technology has kind of really taken off. All this would not have happened. Honestly, the way I look at it, none of this would have happened, at least for a while, just the way it has taken off. So the minds opened up and this can be made like this. If you didn't have cheap internet available in our country, this was not possible. This was not possible. And now with 5G coming in and all that, you will see this going in a very different direction. This whole thing of issues which we saw in live jamming virtually, the whole lag and this will also get sorted out from 5G. You will see real live collaborations happening virtually and this is going to change. And like I said, I'm very bullish about where we are and where this industry is today and so much young talent coming in and expressing themselves and making a career out of themselves. It's amazing and they're making global careers. Look at Prateek Kohar. He's a global star today. I mean, I'm just naming him. Coming out of small town like Jaipur and he's becoming a global icon. He's doing 100% sold out shows in US, UK, wherever he's performing. And these kinds of musicians, you used to only hear in music festivals earlier, right? Used to be dedicated music festivals, which are very and that's where you are to sample them. But things have changed today. Things have completely changed today. They have a fan following like in a big way and yeah, I mean, it's great times to be.  So there were challenges trying to get the artist to perform live, etc. So we did try to record they would specially record for the because we never believed in going the YouTube way because that everybody has access to. But you know, while you're talking also, internet used to be a challenge. But you know, we did this show with Nathu Ji, Nathilaal Sri Lankan from Pushkar and he is the Nagara Maestro, right? Now, the difference over here was that he, you know, the people when we put that show out, when we were doing the live show, the people who joined his audience, his students, his fan following, Brazil, Germany, Switzerland, Austria and we were like, oh my God, you know, and we had decided, you know, we had this absolutely, we had decided to ticket those Inconversations particularly because we wanted to see a dedicated audience. We didn't want random, of course, I mean, you know, when you especially when you're interviewing people where there's the genre of the music is the hero, right? So we kept a minuscule figure of 100 rupees for Indians. And I think it was whatever, some few euros and dollars for the international joinees.  And I think his show had the largest audience. And it was amazing. So this is just trying to save the beach. Now, Nathu Ji is from a small town of Pushkar, but look at this global following and he's a simple man, very simple man, humble to the core, but look at his global following. So it's exactly the same thing how technology has helped. And by the way, now back to, we are decoding the next pivot, right? So that is where technology has come in helping the younger artists grow. What about these older ones? They never had any technology. When Nathu Ji became a spread globally, there was no technology. There was no social media that took him there, right? So obviously there were people behind his fan following, his lovers who took him out. So that's what it is. Even the experienced artists are evolving, they understand the whole thing that this is what they have to adapt to. And it's good and I feel as, I mean, as experienced musicians you are more evolved, as much evolved to take newer things. And I'm sure a lot of them are releasing digital music, streaming in various platforms. So it's great. It's great to have music. So, Mr. Narayan, back to you. So tell us about like you've obviously been receiving a lot of music from younger artists. In fact, I would really be happy if you can share your email ID online, because you know, I remember some artists reached out to that point of time. They're Bengali artists and they're artists from all over the country. Well, so they were experimenting with Punjabi music and they actually created some very good Punjabi music. So at that point of time, I thought, you know, it would be ideal to connect them with you, where not only could you give them a platform for visibility, but you could also guide them on, you know, what was like, whether they were doing it right or whether, you know, what were the kind of things that they could bring into their music. And because I thought the fact that a Bengali artist experimenting with Punjabi music that itself I thought was a win-win. No, it is an interesting thing. My video director and music director here in PTC is an Asami's guy. Oh, so see now, look at this. And we create fantastic Punjabi music with them. And the key for us, the biggest happiness that you got was people who could not afford it, but were immensely talented. Now, at 3.30, we are doing a concert with such artists who earlier were unknown. Now, they are coming into our studios. We're recording them. We're making them perform live to the worldwide audience. And when it is broadcast, it goes to the US, it goes to Canada, it goes to Australia, Middle East, Europe, it goes everywhere. And suddenly they are following all over the world. And once they become popular here, that's when they start getting shows. The money for an artist is not in making music and releasing it online or portals or streaming platform. The money for them is shows. The most troubled time for them was pandemic when there were no shows happening. But that's when they learned the technique, the technology, they adapted, they created music. Now the music is coming out. Now they're getting the shows and the world has opened up. Suddenly artists like Anu Amanath or suddenly like Jee Saab and all, they're getting shows in Canada, they're getting shows in Europe. That's because of the visibility that you are giving them.  They can create the music, create the video, put it on social media and other platforms. And then the world is watching them. We are a medium. We are one of the mediums and we give them a platform worldwide. We have a record label, we have a recording company, we have a publishing company, we have a television channel, we have Facebook, YouTube and an audio platform. So it's a one-stop shop for them. So once they come here, they put their stuff here and there's no money involved for them. We do it. For me, it's software which is coming to me. For them, it's their break, the much needed break which we would never get without money.  Then it's up to their talent. If they're good, they'll get popular, they'll make good money, they will get shows and then we feel good about it. Kaur, V, Ranjit Bawa, Nimrat Khera, Tanishk, all these artists are those who came to our music contest, Vaisapunjab, Vaisapunjab, Chota Champ or the Vaisapunjab seniors. And they emerged out of it and today they're big stars. And that's why you could give them their launch platform. An artist only needs a launch platform now and then their job is done. It's talented, they're sure to get noticed and they'll get work. And that's what is happening. The most important word is what you just said is talented and how good they are with their music. See, it's not just that I've done like one year of free hours, etc. And I'm ready to get on to the stage. You will last for this much and no more. So I think at the bottom line is that also that they need to be well-practiced because they'll become like a one-song wonder then. That's it after that they won't grow. So that's very important for their growth as well. So exactly like we said, digitally you're decoding the next pivot but also for your own growth, you need to be consistent with your practice, you need to be consistent with your music, you need to be sincere about it. Passion is one part which need to be sincere about it otherwise you will end up getting a break, you'll end up doing those one or two songs and after that watch. If you have to grow you have to be sincere about it. Yes, absolutely. So may I request you to share like your email idea, some kind of contact information which we can share over here with the listeners because I know there are many who would like to reach out to you. So at least they know that fine. We don't have to go through showcase. So we don't have to go through loudest. We have Mr. Nara and directly up for us and we can reach out to him. It's very simple. R N, R for Russia and for Nagpur at ptcnetwork.com. I'm also available on Facebook, on Twitter or LinkedIn, Instagram. You can direct message me anywhere and I'm going to put it to my relevant teams and then they take over. Perfect. Super. So I hope everybody's heard the email ID. I'm going to repeat that. It's R N at the rate ptcnetwork.com. So it's really not difficult and they are on all the social media handles as well. So you can reach them directly. In fact, that's what everybody's doing nowadays is I've reached out to so many artists like that, sending them on Instagram and finding them to Facebook and saying, I need to talk to you. So it's interesting and everybody responds. I mean, that's the good part now. I think that way social media has made the world closer, has brought the world closer as well. So Siddharth, on to you. Like you've also been promoting a lot of young talent, etc. And so just tell us a little bit about your experience and how do you think, I mean, do you see other than the fact that of course there is a growth industry and there is fortifies and all these that have come into the country. There's their distribution channels, their publishing houses, their labels, everything is there. But I want to hear about from you about the talent that is there. So I mean, I'm not saying that they're going to evaluate or judge any talent, but do you feel that there is sincerity? Do you feel this potential for growth if they, because they have to focus? It's not just about, you know, the other thing that I want you guys to bring up very importantly is that right now the way I'm noticing is that every artist, the moment they release a song, the first thing they do is I got 1 million likes. How important is that? Isn't it more important to give a good quality product? Your likes will automatically happen. So I want you guys to talk about this because this really gets my go at it. Let me give you an insight. The trouble is, like the television industry, which is in the midst of this TRP game, the music industry has also got stuck in the game of likes and views. The YouTube actually did this and everybody now it's become the Bible. How many views on YouTube? And you've seen the biggest of the names buying likes or buying numbers. I know they're popular. Yeah, I know they've done that. And unfortunately, the quality took a backseat because they never made it. I have to take so many likes. Shows me. You know, I need 25,000 likes. I mean, I'm shocked. Look, it's a whole industry in itself. It is millions these days. It's not how many likes in million in a day. That's where the whole thing is. It was thousands and it became million and now it's how many 100 million or 500 million? It's a complete revenue industry over there, separate revenue industry altogether, isn't it? They don't realize that that amount of money they could have put into their music or put it under a show. That amount is going to just platforms who are minting money on this psychology that they need to have views because when I go for a show, the man will not know my name. He will see how many views does he have? How many followers does he have? And unfortunately, that's a bad thing that's happening. And slowly, I'm sure, very slowly, the filtration will happen. The real talent will stand out. Then the likes and numbers and views will not matter. The talent will matter. I have a little contraining view to this. I think this is a part and parcel of the whole game. And trust me, it works for some people to see how many million views someone or how many views someone has got to kind of here to what's trending, that trending thing. So if it works, it works. I mean, who are we to debate on it, on the quality and all that, which is okay. I mean, if you're one has to go into the morality of you buying those things, and that's another debate because, yeah, I mean, one should feel that it should be organic. But hey, people are doing this. But like I said, it's going to be, you'll always have the goods and the bads coming together of any kind of, I would rather focus on the goods. And it's so much better for anyone to get noticed today for being a musician. And again, the following and the likes would always be accordingly.  I mean, whatever he brings out tomorrow, anything which he brings out tomorrow would be watched and watched by millions. And it's debatable. The quality of music is very debatable. It might not sound good to you. It might sound great. Exactly. That's a subjective thing. So I feel these are part and parcel of the whole digital phenomena. And I think it's that the audience eventually will mature and would understand that, okay, this is and now people know, right? People know that, oh, this guy also buys likes. It's all there. Till the time the music doesn't groove you, I mean, bottom line till the time the music doesn't groove you and doesn't move you, it doesn't matter whatever the other person is doing. But when it does, it does, right? It touches you and somewhere it moves you. And it could be anything. And again, I don't think so. We are here to judge the quality of music. No, but you know what it's also become like in the current day time. It's become like a chicken and egg situation. When you propose an artist to a corporate, you know, when they ask you the first thing they go and see is how many users this person have or how many likes. And then they tell me this is not that great area. So how do you create a person?  This person can sing up till like Dhani, Moka to those go. So that is it. So like I'm saying that there's nothing wrong and there's nothing right. Like, I mean, be a nobody to judge and nobody's anybody to judge anyway, there's nothing with us. There isn't a wrong in this isn't the right. You've got to survive. It's about survival and it's about bringing forward the best both. But yes, I have to say that exactly like it's another and said a lot of good music has unfortunately gotten a back seat because you know, everything is coming out and being judged on the basis of likes and views where we feel that the audience needs to be and the people need to be a little bit more liberal and more exploratory when it comes to this because I think the other artists need to be given a chance just because the flip side is there is a lot of money power comes in. We all know what is happening in Punjabi music industry with the money power comes in the gangsters and the show is a show that's happening in Punjabi. That's the saddest aspect of creating music. The music is now being engulfed in the money power. Those who have money will rule the roost and that's it. That's not music. That's not music. Music is way beyond all this and unfortunately, you know this is a commercial. This is the evil part that's exploiting the such a pure and such a pious art form and I think that's like that's really not acceptable.  Then he says, I will invest but sign a contract 80% of your money is going to come to me for three years. You'll get only 20% and that's what is happening to the industry today. They walk off with that 80% because they're investing that money into buying likes, not into creating music, not into helping the artist to create. Artist has to spend to create music. After that, he goes to an agent boss, make it popular, take it to people. That's when they invest. That's when the money power comes in. That's when they have to recoup their investment and that's when this underworld gangsters and all this comes in. A whole new industry kind of setup. So that's a sad part. I just want to ask Ojasvi, Preeti and Pishar, Ruhi, Alba, Shamid and Sapir joining or should we continue because I mean there's three more things that I'm thinking of and so one of you can just help us with that. Ojasvi, Preeti. Okay, something, I don't know if Sapir would have been here. He would have tales to tell you of the journey that he's been. That's what I would have loved to hear and even Shamid, Shamid has been there like ever since till today and he has actually seen the evolution of the industry. So for decoding the next pivot he would have been absolutely the apt person to come in. So Preeti, sorry you joined in for a second but are the two joining in? Are the two panellists joining in? Would you know? Yes, are the two panellists joining in? Yeah, I'm trying to see do we have Subbhi joining us. No, they're not here right now but if you can just check back. Actually, they are having a bad network. Subbhi is in Dubai so he's having a very bad network. So he won't be joining today. Okay and Shamid, Shamid is also in Dubai or he's in Bombay? Yeah, he's not available. Okay, so it's the new one of the three. Okay, fine. Thank you so much. So back to us guys. So tell me one more thing now. We come back to now let's pick up the actual subject right now, decoding the next pivot. So given where we are today, we are in 2022 where the music industry has given the COVID and we've all heard the pros and the cons of COVID etc. We've all been doing it for the last two years and talking about it and the challenges that we face. But of course, given the positive that it's made us, it's brought in technology and taken us to the next space altogether. And from the time when we started to today, it's only growing. Every day we are blasted with something new like I reached a point when I say I've learned the TEC, I can't do it anymore. Like at my age, I'm done. I'm exhausted now. But every day there's a new thing coming in. And so where do you see the industry? I won't even say in the next five years or 10 years, that's too far a time with the way things have been evolving and changing. Where do you see the industry in the next one year? We are now in 2022 June 2022. Where do you see it by the next World Music Day June 2023? First over to Mr. Narayan. See the biggest change that I see is it's the death of music companies, music labels, and maybe music television channels. The artist has the power in their own hands now. They can create music, they can publish music, they can distribute music, and they can earn their own money directly. There are middlemen which are going to go away. The streaming platforms, the digital platforms, they'll be in the forefront. Even the FM radios, the television channels where there was appointment viewing, you come at a certain time to listen, whosoever is available at that time is the star. It's gone. Now I'm searching for my kind of music, the kind of mood I'm in, the kind of artist I'm into. I'll search for them, gana.com, YouTube music, any platform, streaming platforms, Spotify, there are 170 such platforms. I'll go to my platform. I'll get my music there. So I know that if I'm an artist, I'm a good artist, and I can spend a little bit on distributing to make my reach wider, I'll get the audience. Once I have the audience, that audience will have a web effect. It will get me more audience and my network will wall. I will start getting queries. I will start getting shows and I will start getting money. So the biggest revolution in the next one year you will see is every artist will have their own music label, their own publishing, their own copyright, their own making money, their own booking paraffelinia and platforms like Facebook paid events will be in the forefront where I can sell my own tickets. I don't even need an agent on my Facebook page. I will just make tickets available, appointment viewing, six o'clock on Saturday. I have a concert on. Guys, you want to see me? Go on. Come on. You want to learn music from me? You want to collaborate with me? We're all available digitally. So the international collaborations, individual artists making music on their own, that will be the key thing for the future and the shows will be smaller as well as bigger. Both kinds of shows are going to work now for artists. A smaller audience in a, in a, let's say, amphitheater setting, a bigger audience in a arena setting, everything is going to work. You create music, it'll work. And most of all, the artists are going to get shows. The moment you start getting shows, you're making money. The industrial stripe, they will thrive. That is true. Siddharth, what is your thought on this? I kind of agree with Rabindran. I feel it is evolving by ours, Nani. The thing is really evolving by ours. And I think in next one year, you never know, you might see a Despacito coming out of India. You might see a global single coming out of India, which becomes like a big thing. And I must tell you, you will see a huge amount of regional music researching that. You know, the South Indian music. Look at what South Indian movies are doing. Fantastic. You know, so the whole regional content and which includes regional music is something to look forward to and their time has come, their time has arrived.  So that aspect would be something to watch out for.  You know, platform is no more a struggle anymore. And, you know, tomorrow, if you made something nice, it just goes viral. And by the way, we're not even discussing and talking about Metaverse. Oh, yes, that was my next thing I was going to come to. What will happen there? The whole collaboration of, you know, amazing visuals and animations and, you know, your avatar singing there out there for you. Your NFTs out there. That's what I want you guys to talk about. That was my next thing I was coming to.  And VR concerts, VR concerts have in any case started earlier. Yes, it's going to be a reality within Mons in India. Absolutely, because, you know, with the headsets available and now the variety of headsets earlier, it was Oculus only and you just had that one piece. But now with, of course, cardboard was never really the best quality that you could get. But I mean, it is there. So it's not that, you know, there was a restriction to it or limitation because you did not have the Oculus device. But basically, the web VR has gone beyond being device specific. So, you know, it's kind of, it's again, bringing the industry as I want to hear about the LFT. We have great success with the VR. We are now broadcasting 100% live from Golden Temple. The Guruvani is sung there, available in virtual reality 360 degrees and we thought there'll be a few hundred people who'll see it. It's thousands of people watching it on YouTube and on our app and on YouTube. So it's broadcast real time live 360 degree VR. So after that success, we thought, let's do a concert. So we did a virtual concert concert where one artist was performing from Amritsar, one was performing from Mughali, one from Delhi. Now we are converging it into VR. The artist performing in a virtual reality kind of settings and the audience will be in a virtual arena where your mind and body will say that you are sitting in a ticketed seat where you bought the place and you're seeing it from there. So that's where it's headed. Siddharth, your experience on the VR part? You know, when the pandemic hit us, remember the game Fortnite was launched. Fortnite was, of course, the biggest rage amongst the youth and billions of kids were hooked to it. And Travis Scott launched his track at that moment, that game, when the game was launched. You know, we're going towards that. The entire e-gaming industry is really moving in a big speed again. That's another... It's been viral. Gaming industry went crazy. So gaming and music has a huge scope of integrating. So I beg to differ there. Future might not be just about live shows. In future, it's all about integration and finding your platforms and multi-platforms. Even when you stream today and when you have so many subscribers or whatever, you get that kind of revenue coming from digital platforms. So even while the artist is sitting at home and not doing shows, he's making his money today. He has that kind of followership. He's getting those kind of subscribers and people are listening to him. So I mean, the whole game is going to be changed.  It will always be there. It's not that it's going anywhere. And this will only thrive further. Live businesses are going to even thrive further because of this whole multi-dimensional availability of content, which becomes great for exposures and which becomes great for you seeing out there. So it's going to be phenomenal times ahead. Going in that direction is working on the direction. We'll have the first movers advantage. We'll be able to create that cult which follows them, which is very different. And youth today is consuming entertainment in a lot different way. We have to do, absolutely. And also, I get asked this question very often since you guys specialize in virtual events and are they here to stay? And I say, absolutely. First of all, they're not going anywhere and now everything is hybrid because of the advantage we have seen with hybrid. Life has its own energy. Nothing can replace life that we're not even contesting. But yes, definitely bringing in the virtual aspect to the life, creating a hybrid environment. You know the outreach is so much better. Time is saved economically. It's more vibrant. Like we've been doing conferences, for example, or we've got artists and speakers joining in from across the world. You're not spending that much time for a half an hour session or for a half an hour performance to come across the globe and then go back and look at the kind of money involved. So of course, I mean, life has like, I always maintain that it has its own energy, but the outreach is definitely better with technology. So tell me one thing. Of course, I'm zero when it comes to understanding NFTs and blockchain and the Bitcoin, etc. Right. I don't I just know these words. I have no idea what they mean. So I'd be delighted to have y'all and I'm sure in the audience today, there are many like me who are struggling trying to understand, but we want to keep up with the NFTs. So what exactly is it? And what does it mean for the music industry? Because basically, that is where it's all headed. So what does it mean for an artist and how should they reach out to the NFTs space to put out their music so that it gets bought? And what does it mean when somebody buys your music or buys a song? What does it mean for the artist? So, Siddharth, why don't you take this first? Yeah, so like I said, you know, the metaverse is taking over and I feel people will have their own avatars doing a whole lot of stuff in that space.  Now, Fortnite success has been its online concerts. It has a huge success rate. They've had Jay Baldwin, they have Ariana Grande playing, they've had many artists, they have Lin-Nas performing, they've had huge amount of success which they saw in these online concerts which have happened in a game format. So, so there's going to be a collaboration of whole lot of animation and music coming together and that's something which I feel is the future. I feel Indian industry should really look at, I've not seen anyone working on that in India very faculty till now. So, there are a few, there are a few artists that have put up their music as an NFT but I just want to understand maybe like, you know, Ms. Narayan, you can help us with this. Yes, there's a practical artist. If I'm an artist, how does it benefit me? Now, to create music, I need funding. Either invest, I'll borrow, I'll go to a label or ask someone to fund. I need to shoot a 30 lakh exotic video and I need to record collaborating with the best of the international talent and it'll cost me 10 lakh rupees. So, overall, I need about 40 odd lakh rupees to create a masterpiece which would be no less than anybody. Now, I don't have that money. What I can do is I will appeal to people that I'm going to create this and you can own a portion of it. So, they fund you. They'll give you money. Yes, go ahead. I'm your fan. I'm putting in this money to own this thing that you're creating and when it gets released, the royalties or the income that comes from it, from across the globe, you also get a part of it. So, if I invested 1 rupee, my 1 rupee might get me 1.5 rupees back because forever, as long as the asset will remain digitally active in the metaverse or in the digital platforms, it'll keep on earning money and the money will keep on accruing to me, not just to the artist, but to everybody else who invested in that artist. So, that's the practical aspect of it that it's like investing in a company and then in the shares of that company and then making money from it. Plus, I'm the top star artist and I've created something and I'm not putting it in the market that, hey, you can also go on this creation. You can have rights. You can have sync rights of it. You can have, I would say, dubbing rights or language rights of music I've created and they're available to you. You pay in my digital currency and you can have this right and record. Now, I have to record a cover version. I need to go and ask for permissions. I don't know where to go and ask. Now, I can take it digitally, from the artist directly. I can invest in the product also. I go on it also. So, whole lot of investments, whole lot of earnings, whole lot of collaborations and whole lot of owning the creation comes into the playwright. So, the artist doesn't really lose all soul rights to the song that they have created. They just get co-owners. So, they have just more stakeholders to that particular song and then as a result of it, everybody tends to gain in terms of revenue. As an artist, if I don't have money, why would I mind that people are investing? Investing in me and they are making money also from it. I'm making my money. They're making their money. Correct. So, which is a fair deal. So, as somebody who can advise us to be artist, maybe it's a good idea to put up your songs as NFTs, right? Or your music out as music videos as NFTs. Good idea. More than they're selling song, I think that's I mean, it's the moment which they sell. It's something which, you know, a lot of merchandise and a lot of virtual merchandise and a lot of artwork around you and a lot of which is going well and which is really going crazy. But you never would have imagined what your one poster can fetch you when someone is buying it at the NFTs space. So, that's the area which wherein you're seeing a whole lot of new fans coming in and you of course have to be back with a great, it's a collaborative time with other art forms actually. If you're a musician, you have to have a great graphic designer teaming you. You have to have a great animation artist backing you and you guys can do wonders as a team together. And that's one area of collaboration which should really evolve in times to come. That's wonderful. So, I think we've ended up giving some very, very good important takeaways for the musicians and artists of today and not just the artists of today, even of the yesterday years to just kind of, you know, pick themselves up and get into the digital space because eventually that is the path forward. And true to our session where we said decoding the next pivot, which is really, it's all heading into that direction. So, of course not foregoing the fact that, you know, like space will always still have its prominence. But yes, now it will be complemented a lot with the digital space because that will help a lot more to grow. So, thank you very much gentlemen. I know that we were just the three of us but we managed to pull up a session for one hour. I don't know if we bored our audiences or not, but I enjoyed every moment of it because I think it was a lot of learning for me in all of this. So, thank you, Ms. Imran and thank you, Siddharth, for being with us today and I hand it over to Preeti. Thank you so much. Thank you everyone for such a wonderful session. Thank you, Nani, for hosting this for all the questions and for the sharing. Well, ladies and gentlemen, our lovely audience. I hope you enjoyed this session. We started off with speaking to some lovely women in the industry and then we had these really powerful people who transformed the music industry and now we know where we headed, what's coming up next in the world of music. Today is World Music Day and there's a lot happening around and I got to know there are three concerts all around and this is a day where you should try out different types of music. Listen to something new or make a post on social media about music, about what you like. Let's celebrate this day. Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen, for joining us. This is Preeti Katpa, your host. I'm from Mumbai, the city of dreams and saying goodbye to you. I hope to see you soon. Enjoy World Music Day.