And we'll be talking property investors, right? You're already speaking about them hitting the ceiling. What are other challenges that you guys have identified that could be threats to investors not being able to grow their property portfolios? So it's so incredibly important for us that investors remain healthy that they can manage their existing portfolios. We want to make sure. Want to hear about tonight. Yes, we are talking about financing your next investment property with Apsa's future rental income. So I'm talking to Miguel Martins, who's a portfolio manager from Apsa. He's an investor's Apsa's home loans division. And I really, we are really looking forward to having this conversation. Good evening, Miguel, how are you? I'm fine. Thank you so much for having me looking forward to our conversation. Thank you so much. If you are joining us for the first time, this is on this podcast, we talk each and every single thing around property. We talk about investing, buying, selling, and whatever you're really looking for, just managing your overall property portfolio and ensuring that it grows from strength to strength and just becomes better. Tonight, we are talking about growing it. And that's why I was saying that this is something everybody wants to know about because Miguel is going to be telling us about Apsa's future rental income or is it a product? Is it a way of doing things and what it actually entails? So that will be my first question tonight, Miguel, to say, what is it? And how does one get to use this opportunity? Fantastic to me. And this is a conversation I've regularly with investors. I probably get a call from an investor every other day just asking about how do they get finance, listening to some of their problems and just want to find solutions for them, not just to maintain the existing portfolio as possibly to get into their first property but also closer to grow. So about three and a half years ago, one of the challenges we had was that investors were generally purchasing one, maybe two investment properties and then nothing, and then not further. And as we got around the table with quite a few investors nationally, we started to realize that the issue was affordability, that investors were hitting an affordability ceiling. So it got to a point where if they added their income as well as the rentals they're receiving onto their finance applications, that they were actually hitting their max and they weren't able to actually access and grow further than that. What future rental income does as opposed to using existing rental income is it allows you, allows investor who is an existing investor with at least two properties in their portfolio to add the expected rental income of the property that they are purchasing to their affordability. So that's what we call it future rental income because we're adding the expected rental that they're gonna be earning to their income and affordability. This helps most investors just get over that hurdle and just break through that glass ceiling and have the ability to finance their next property. And we'll be talking property investors, right? You already speaking about them hitting the ceiling. What are other challenges that you guys have identified that could be threats to investors not being able to grow their property portfolios? So it's so incredibly important for us that investors remain healthy, that they can manage the existing portfolios that they are quite steady tendencies and they're managing the vacancies and their costs because a healthy investor financially, fit investor is a good bank customer and it also allows them to then come back and continue growing their portfolio. So some of the problems we've seen and I first put it into managing one's portfolio versus growing the portfolio. So the managing portfolio first and foremost interest rates. We are in an increasing interest rates environment. We've already seen a couple of interest rates increases of 25 basis points twice, I think, over the last few months and we're expecting a few more increases this year and into next year. But the absolute house position is that we're expecting interest rates to hit a max of or at least to hit 8.75% by the end of next year. That's an economic forecast and the various different forecasts in the market. But so although we end that increasing interest rates cycle at this stage, we still are well below the 10% that we were at pre-COVID. So although our financing costs are increasing still below what we were pre-COVID but definitely increasing. And of course, you offset that with a weak rental market in terms of rental increases. We're only seeing about 1.8% increasing year on year. It definitely does start to squeeze the margins for the investors. And then thirdly, tenants under stress. Tenants on the income stress. Tenants also fire the cars that they're financing, et cetera. So interest rates increases and other inflationary costs are also stressing tenants. And that just really requires investors with the portfolio, whether it's one or two or 15 apartments and properties that we do manage them carefully. We do manage them and start to think about what are the other shocks that can come through to us and try to prevent that. That's on the managing side. On the growth side, of course as investors we need to absolutely safeguard our credit profiles. We need to ensure that we stay up to date with our payments and that we keep that credit profile blemish free because as soon as that is tainted and accessing finance becomes so much more difficult. Of course, I spoke about affordability running out. That's a common issue with investors. And in that way, it really is about managing your net rentals, making sure that when you do invest you need to invest in good cash flowing properties. You've got the right skills behind you. Our most recent HAPSA homeowner sentiment index, the results that come out of that was that investors are still positive about the market, but they're tentative. They are careful about what their next step is. And I think that's just a general theme that we have for whether we're managing or whether we're growing our portfolios. Sure, and you know with something like this that assists investors, are we talking specifically for residential or residential properties or are we talking all categories of properties because as an investor someone might want to just open up their portfolio from them just having residential to having commercial to having warehouses and even some land. So is this open to all categories of properties or is it specific for some? So the HAPSA future rental income is specifically for residential properties. We're the only bank that offers it and creates ability for investors to extend their affordability with future rental income. And that's how we do it with existing investors who are already in the market. When you start looking at commercial property and the various types, although it's still property, it's a very different market with very different dynamics and there are variations of future income that are utilized but those are very different strategies and the financing in that space is done quite differently. Here we're looking at home run residential investors and there are a lot in terms of market size, there are a lot more residential investors in South Africa than there are commercial investors. So we really are. So this income type, this income type, this part of our back to let product really does appeal to the majority of property investors in South Africa. Sure. And now let's talk about the nitty gritties of one actually getting into or using the service that HAPSA offers. How can someone go into it? And you spoke a little bit about that but if I don't have the properties or properties that I've already bought and can I buy as a first time owner or is it just specifically for people who are going into the investments? That's number one. And number two, how does one, if I'm already in this investment offering, how can I make sure that it stays lucrative and it stays working for me? Because sometimes things happen, especially when you're investing and with the different movements in the market, with COVID throwing curveballs into the industry, what ends up happening when an investment is not panning out as one had projected? Absolutely. So quite a few points to be made there. So we partner with two key industry partners, the South African Property Investors Network, SAPIN, as well as TPN. So as an HAPSA customer, you can access the South African Property Investors Network which provides education, content, networking with other investors. And we really encourage investors to build or get into networks with other investors because those problems that you mentioned, they can affect an investor at one point and then investor now has the ability to share their experiences and the solutions that they found in that particular situation with other investors. And SAPIN as a key partner of ours enables investors to come together and to share those learnings and insights. And then our department of the likes of TPN, TPN is a credit bureau, a tenant credit bureau. And with TPN, investors can, when looking to invest in a particular suburb, they can pull a suburb report. And in that suburb report, TPN includes what is the good standing ratio? How many tenants, what percentage of tenants in that area are paying their rents? What are the average rentals? What are the average vacancies, et cetera? So some really good tools and reports that TPN provides as well as property rental software. So really, really, really great products and services from both SAPIN and TPN. Armed with that, an investor is in a better position to go out to find a property, to ensure that they've run the numbers correctly, they've got the education and some of the, and those partners behind them to ensure that they're making good investment decisions and a better position to manage those properties, manage the tenants. Tenants come and go in the implications of leases, going in inspections, exit inspections, et cetera. So really a wealth of knowledge with those two partners for a property investor to both grow as well as manage and maintain those portfolios. But running a property portfolio is not very different from any other business. Many people fall into the trap of thinking it's a hobby or treating it like a hobby or a very easy to do side hustle. It is, it doesn't have the same complexity as running a shop or running a store or any other kind of business. But if you apply good business principles to your property investment, whether you have one, two or 10 properties, it will come back to you and multiply effects because you really applied sound principles and thinking to how you manage your tenants, how you source your tenants, taking the long view as opposed to taking a short view in many, many situations. And we really hear, and part of what I do and part of my role at APSA is ready to support investors through that and by guidance and by direction bringing the partners like I've spoken about in terms of providing better direction and that's nationally. Sure, no, thank you so much for that. And I hope anybody who is watching who is a potential investor is really gaining a great insight from the conversation that we are having tonight. And you spoke some along the lines of business compliance and making sure that you are on the right side also of the law and understanding what each business or what the business entails. Let's talk a little bit about the tax implications of taking, of using a method like this. Is it, is there specific tax implications or even legal implications that speak to this particular where you're financing or is it just the same as it would have been done traditionally? Oh, no, absolutely. There, there, you know, so we're getting to the business of property management, letting sales potentially, et cetera. So, you know, a lot of this sounds like you, as a property manager, as an investor, you are partly an estate agent. If anything, just sourcing of properties, you're partly a letting's agent, you know, and all the aspects that come with that. So it is good to understand at a workable level the implications of the property practitioners act as it just came in, even if it doesn't apply, it doesn't apply to most self-managing landlords. It's good to understand that. In terms of the tax side of things, it's incredibly important to have a tax accountant that you can go to and you can explain to what you're planning to do, what your portfolio looks like and understand the tax implications of that. All of a sudden, you have to include the rental income that you earn onto your tax return. But you can also add the expenses incurred with that property on your tax return. And done correctly, it definitely asks some tax advantages with property, but it's definitely got to have the backing and the support from a professional like a tax accountant. From a legal perspective, you're entering into a contract with tenants. They're specifically legal frameworks and requirements that requires. So you're also good to have that legal support and ensuring that you've actually got an attorney who is experienced in property law and in dealing with tenants. There are many attorneys out there that provide this kind of services. Our partner at TPN, they provide an up-to-date lease agreement that they provide to their members and their clients. And utilizing that, you can have confidence that you are contracting in the best way possible in a way that protects the landlord and their investment as well as is fair to the tenants. So property investment can seem fairly simplistic and easy to get into initially, but if you want to do it properly and especially if you're wanting to build a portfolio, get to know the rules of the game. Because just like soccer, once you get to know the rules of the game, you know how to bend that ball. You know how to make it work in your favor. Thank you so much. The question was really apt and on the pulse. Thank you so much. We have actually reached the tail end of our conversation and thank you so much for joining us tonight. Such great insights that our Facebook family is going, is raving. Lewa Khan is saying great information and Sherreen is also really just saying that the information that we have received tonight has been so worth it. Thank you so much, Miguel, and have a good evening. You're fantastic. I'll go into Facebook and answer some of those questions as I'll add to some of the views. Please do that. Please do that. Thank you so much. Thank you to me. Take care. Thank you. And that is how we reached the end of our episode tonight and thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for staying till this part. And if you missed any part of the conversation for any reason, remember that you can still catch up on it and make sure that you watch from the very beginning. And if you joined us on the Twitter space, special shout out to you for staying till the very end. Until we see you tomorrow, same time, same place, right here on the Private Property Facebook page. It is good night. Thank you.


الحمد لله والصلاة والسلاة أشرف الأنبياء والمرسلين أالمين أب القاسم المصطفى محمد صلى الله عليهك يا رسول الله صلى الله المضلوات الأمة ومؤمنا ومؤمنا نفوزا فوزا عظي كتابه الكري بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم وما بأمفوزهم لا يوجد أسلام وفوبيا ومصطفى كأننا نقوم بأمفوزهم على أسلام ونقوم بأمفوزهم أكثر كما يحدث ستواجهات ونقوم بأمفوزهم لا تتواجه المسلمين ونقوم بأمفوزهم على أسلام ونقوم بأمفوزهم أكثر كما يحدث أمفوزهم أكثر كما يحدث ومعت that ايسس مجموعة مجموعة طالبان القاعدة ومعت that these terrorists who are killing people in the name of the Quran and in the name of the religion of Islam بسلام they are the ones who truly represent the religion of Islam and we have seen the result of this type of thinking Islamophobia it's not a myth it's a reality that we are witnessing and especially here in this community with the masjid that it was not allowed they did not give permission for a masjid to be built here in sterling heights now it's not a myth and it's a reality this hatred that we are witnessing it's a reality and it's very visible for anyone who wants to see for anyone who pays attention they will see that there is a growing fear and hatred towards Muslims and unfortunately there is a lot of people who believe that hateful feelings towards Muslims and of course they are armed they go walking places because the constitution says it's okay to carry weapons so the question is what's the difference with these people who have a mentality that everyone else is wrong and they are right and they are armed what's the difference with them in ISIS what's the difference with them in the terrorists and we've seen many incidents were Muslims just because they're Muslims or a woman just because she is a lady just because she is wearing the hijab practicing the modesty of Islam you see that she is attacked and these incidents are growing day after the other now the question is where does this come from where does this Islamophobia come from did it just come out of nowhere is it just incidents that are happening in society that there was nothing to cause these the answer is no there are reasons for this Islamophobia the first reason is no doubtedly and we admit that there are a group of people in the name of the religion of Islam that are carrying out crimes against humanity and crimes against Muslims and non-Muslims alike in the name of the Quran and in the name of the religion of Islam and we see them all over the news ISIS, Taliban and Qaeda and these groups of people they do not represent the religion of Islam and you see it is always the Muslims who are the first to condemn their criminal acts always the Muslims who first condemn these evil acts against humanity against Islam and you see that most of the victims of these terrorists are who they are Muslims themselves so does that make sense that in the name of the religion of Islam and they are killing Muslims most of the victims are Muslims themselves so how does it make sense that they are doing this in the name of the religion of Islam when you go and you look at the reality the reality of these terrorist organizations you will see that they are politicians they are politicians they are trying to achieve power they are trying to gain a seat but sometimes a politician they use one way to gain power and sometimes they use force and these people they are politicians they are after power because if they were truly worried about the religion of Islam they wouldn't bomb and explode mosques they wouldn't explode graves of the companions of the Prophet they wouldn't explode graves of some of the Prophet some of the Prophet they bombed their graves and their shrines is this an act of a true Muslim you see that these graves and these shrines they have been around for over a thousand years suddenly a group of people they came and they're destroying all of the graves and all of these shrines in the Middle East so this group of people does not represent the religion of Islam and the Muslims they are the first to condemn their evil acts second the second reason for this rising Islamophobia is the bigotry that we see in society and unfortunately we live in a very free society we live in a free society however there are a lot of bigots and people that have so much hatred in their hearts in this free society and we see this on a daily basis someone who wants to be a presidential candidate he wants to achieve votes what does he do to get rising poll numbers he comes and he says Islam it's not compatible with the constitution others you see they talk against their religion of Islam on the channels these shows on the channels in order to get publicity in order to get ratings they sit and attack their religion of Islam attacking Muslims and this causes other people to go and attack innocent Muslims and this is bigotry if it's not bigotry then I don't know what it is it's bigotry they're generalizing and accusing all Muslims of being terrorists and this is definitely not true but we see that this is very apparent and this act of bigotry it is what's causing it's causing more violence and more Muslims to be attacked and abused we see that only when a Muslim commits a crime right away it's a Islamic problem it's a Muslim problem however when someone else who practices what happens to practice another religion commits a crime you don't hear anything about it a few weeks ago there were shootings in the Oregon community college I was watching this the police officer what's the name of the one who killed these students he went into the community college and he began to shoot his classmates he refused to say his name why did he refuse to say his name because that terrorist he was not he was not black he was not Muslim he was not from a minority he happened to be a white person he refused to mention this bigotry in the united states in the year 2014 and this is according to the website of the FBI I don't visit it but I had to visit it just to get this statistic it says that during 2014 an estimated of 14,196 murders took place in the united states 14,196 did we hear the religion mentioned did we hear did we hear anyone say which religion these people are from the united states is filled with prisoners criminals that are in there because of murdering but the moment you hear a Muslim killed it's all over the news everyone has to hear about it and it suddenly becomes a Muslim problem the question is what do we have to do to satisfy these people you see the Muslims they are very successful their children are educated they pay their taxes what else do you have to do Muslims do not break the law there are other groups of people that break the law more than the Muslims but you see that there is this hatred towards Islam and towards the Muslims what do you have to do to stop this the third reason for this rising Islamophobia and this rising hatred towards Islam and the Muslims is that there is an agenda there is an agenda that is working against Islam and the Muslims there was a study that said that on an annual basis 57 million dollars is infested just to bring down the name of the religion of Islam just to create fear in the hearts of people in the name of the religion of Islam and you can look this up so much money is invested there is actually companies and people influential people in the government that put money so that people have fear of the religion of Islam and people have fear of Muslims they tell you Muslims they want to take over the world and they will kill anyone who does not believe in their belief system or scaring people with this Shari Allah you hear everyone talking about it but you see if you ask one person if you ask some of them even some of the ones who are candidates to be presidents of the United States you ask them what is Shari Allah they won't know they won't have the details of Shari Allah and the religion of Islam but you hear it constantly mentioned now let's analyze what is Shari Allah what is it we constantly hear it being mentioned even unfortunately you see some Muslims because many Muslims you don't see them attending the Masjid you don't see them coming and learning about their religion and they'll probably take their religion from Fox News and from these media channels so you see many people many Muslims are confused themselves many Muslims they actually think Islam is a religion that was spread by the sword and Islam is against women Islam oppresses and abuses people and this is why we need to educate ourselves what is Shari Allah first of all when you see the religion of Islam you see that contrary to other groups of religions contrary to for example Christianity and other religions of course not all of Christians but a group of them the religion of Islam it does not even view that I have to convert other people to the religion of Islam it's not an obligation for me I don't go knocking on people's doors and telling them convert to the religion of Islam we don't yes it's good to guide people it's good to show people the truth but I don't believe that I have to convert everyone to the religion of Islam and we see that even during the time of Rasul Allah ﷺ there were many people who were non-Muslims they were living in a Muslim community with Rasul Allah ﷺ Allah says لكم دينك وليدين you have your faith and I have my faith there's nothing wrong with that in another verse الله says فمن شاء فاليؤمن ومن شاء فاليكفر فاليكفر he who wants to believe they could believe and he who does not want to believe they're not forced to believe Rasul Allah ﷺ did not force people to join the religion of Islam because the day Rasul Allah ﷺ passed away he had power but there were Christians and there were Jews that were living within the Muslim community and in the other verse الله says اتبيّن الرشد من القي there's no compulsion there's no force in religion now this has two meanings one is that you should not force other people to join your religion this is wrong and the other meaning is that you cannot even if you try you cannot can I force someone to love someone else can I force someone to hate someone else no because this is a feeling in the heart and the religion and faith it's also in the heart you cannot change someone's heart by forcing them through force you cannot change someone's belief system اتبيّن الرشد من القي however when you look at other communities when you look at other religions you see there was colonialism for many years what was it for was it just for taking and stealing the money and the resources of countries it also had a reason that let's convert these people because these people their religion is worthless their religion is nothing at any cost if we have to kill these people if we have to annihilate whole communities let's do it and we see that under the excuse of the cross and Christianity and of course this is not Christianity this is not the teaching of Jesus this is not what Jesus wanted but you see that under the cross millions were killed millions were annihilated here America it had Native Americans where are they now do you run into Native Americans when you're driving when you're walking around you don't even see them they're extinct because of this hegemonic practice of spreading our belief system was it the Muslims that did this no you look in other countries today in Palestine why are they being killed why are they being kicked out of their homes why are their homes being demolished over their heads the only reason is that they're Muslim but you see that this is not called terrorism here it's only called terrorism when it's committed when the crime is committed by Muslims however when we look at the religion of Islam we see that the religion of Islam is tolerant towards other religions رسول الله صلى الله عليه وعلي وعلي he was tolerant الله how many times in the Quran says oh people of the book يا أهل الكتاب that means Allah acknowledges them that means they have a right to be live in the community and you go and you look in the Muslim communities in the Muslim countries Christians have been living with Muslims and Jews have been living with Muslims and other people of different faiths they have all been living together the religion of Islam did not exterminate and kill anyone who believes in another religion in fact the greatest sin in the religion of Islam is what? it's shirk it's associating a partner with Allah but you see that even a mushrik is accepted even a mushrik someone who associates a partner with Allah this person he is accepted in the Muslim society الله says in the Quran وإن أحد من المشركين استجارك فأجر even if one of the مشركين he came to seek refuge give him refuge give that person refuge and this is what Rasool Allah did isn't this what Rasool Allah did to Abu Sufyan in his family he freed them and he let them go he let them live so the religion of Islam is very tolerant but you see that there is an agenda that's working against the religion of Islam so this is the first point regarding Sharia Allah I don't believe that I have to force my Sharia upon other people the second what exactly is the Sharia what is the code what is the laws of the religion of Islam you see that the religion of Islam it has a legal system just like other religions they have a legal system the Catholics they have a legal system by the name of the Canon law and the Jews they have a legal system by the name of Halak Allah Halak Allah because these are legal systems of other religions why are they allowed why do we not hear Fox News and other networks attacking these other legal systems religious legal systems and why is it only the religion of Islam that's constantly being attacked and then you come and you look at these legal systems you look at Sharia Allah you see that it's divided into two categories there is one set of laws that pertain to an individual for example I choose Allah سبحانه وتعالى orders me to refrain from eating pork Allah سبحانه وتعالى orders me to refrain from alcohol Allah سبحانه وتعالى orders me to practice modesty Allah سبحانه وتعالى orders me to eat halal food meaning that the blood and the germs and all of this leaves the body of the animal that has been slaughtered now what's the problem if I come and I'm practicing this law what's the problem of me practicing modesty what's the problem when a Muslim woman decides to wear the hijab is it wrong is it going against the teachings of the constitution no you see that the constitution the first thing it orders the first thing that it speaks about is religious freedom and people came to the United States to seek religious freedom but why is it that when it comes to a Muslim it becomes a wrong thing and it becomes something wrong in the name of being open minded in the name of western civilization and democracy you see I read this in France right now they're trying to force the Muslim students and the Jewish students to eat pork at schools at schools they bring them pork and they say you have to eat this because this is secularism you have to be secular is this truly freedom or when a woman is not allowed to practice hijab is this truly freedom why is it okay why is it considered freedom when a woman wants to walk around almost naked that's considered freedom you respect that you accept that why do you not respect it when she wants to cover herself why is it why is it then not freedom you see the double standards another issue the second category regarding شريع الله is that there are laws that the religion of Islam and the Quran and the Rasool of Allah brought for the protection of society as a whole and these are the penal laws sometimes and these are the penal laws that the religion of Islam because the religion of Islam came in a society where there was no government Rasool of Allah he formed his own government there was no civilization in Arabia before the religion of Islam he came and he brought that civilization people were there was no law at night time there was no safety there was no security the murders they were walking around they steal the women from that tribe the religion of Islam it came and it brought a justice system it brought laws so that people can live safely with one another so that people can feel protected and yes some of these laws for example the religion of Islam one of the laws of the religion of Islam is the laws of أصاص when someone kills this person is killed if there are witnesses now someone might come and say this is unjust and the religion of Islam just wants to kill and the religion of Islam wants to seek revenge but Allah سبحانه وتعالى says with قصاص you will find you will find peace you will actually be able to live and when we look at the society that that was practiced it's not the way it's practiced right now by ISIS and these thugs in the name of the religion of Islam when it was practiced by رسول الله and by the imams and during the short period where there was actually real Islam being practiced during the time of Amir al-Mu'mineen you see that Muslims were safe Muslims were safe to walk they say that a female can walk from one city to another city and this was the safety that the religion of Islam brought and of course these laws these laws they're applied now we're not coming and saying that religion because these laws have to be applied to the United States because even Muslim scholars even Muslim scholars they say that these laws they're applied in a Muslim majority community a Muslim majority society and the people they vote to live by that law and doesn't this make sense is this a democratic country where you're allowed to vote for a law that you wish to live by some people they wish they wish to vote for some laws this is what democracy calls for and we see that this is not only happened in the religion of Islam it's not the religion of Islam that's to blame because of these laws there were Muslims before the revolution and there are Muslims after the revolution before the revolution they chose not to practice these laws after the revolution the whole government the whole community the whole nation they stood they decided to live by some laws that they voted for their parliament voted for what's wrong with them if they decide to live by laws the whole community the whole society why is it wrong and you see this is not only where Muslims are living you see that this happens in a Christian country you see that this happens for example in India a few days ago there was a man a few days after Aidan Atha in a city in India who was killed why because they thought that he had eight meat they thought that he had beef in his house and they killed him in a very bad way because there is a law in that city that you're not allowed to eat beef the whole community the whole government at that time they voted for that law now do we see anyone coming and saying these people are cruel and they're forcing people not to eat beef we don't see anyone mentioning these laws but when it comes to the religion of Islam you see the Muslims are attacked and other places many other places this is very common in a democratic society people they vote to live and practice a law that they feel that is befitting for them and you see also some Muslim countries they don't practice some of these religious laws some of these laws that the Quran speaks about they don't practice it they voted not to practice it so why is it Islam that's to blame and then you come and you see that these laws that you're coming and attacking the religion of Islam for example you hear some people go on TV and they say Islam advocate stoning well guess what stoning is not even mentioned in the Quran you know where it's mentioned it's mentioned in the Old Testament go and read your own book before you come and attack the religion of Islam but the problem is today many people they don't even know what the Quran is they just hear Islam and they're coming and attacking the Muslims and creating fear without even reading without even reading the history and the actual rulings of the religion of Islam so Islam is not to blame and these laws they are there to protect society if you choose to live with them you live with them if you don't choose to live with them a community chooses not to live with them and many of these our scholars they say that they are practiced only when the Imam Al-Adil is around only when the true rightful just leader when there is a just government these laws are allowed to be implemented for example scholars they say that the religion of Islam says the thief of course there are conditions there are hundreds of conditions many conditions not anyone who is a thief they come and they cut off his hand for example someone has to break a lock someone has to not be hungry they cannot many conditions they have to be met for that law to be applied and also one of the conditions is that for example there has to be no poverty in society another condition is that the Imam Al-Adil has to be around why because the Imam Al-Adil he is the only one who is able to make sure that all the laws are being applied equally so right now scholars they say that's not applied but of course you see some governments they are competing with ISIS the Saudi government competing with ISIS how many beheadings they can have in a year ISIS wants and this government is beheading people they are bombing innocent people and then a few days ago in the united nations they want to vote for laws against humanity criminal laws that criminal acts of war that have been taken place by the Saudi government who was the first government that came and protected them it was America it was Britain they protected Saudi Arabia and then the religion of Islam is abused of being a terrorist religion a violent religion go solve the problem with your friend the one that the president is dancing with their king go and solve that problem and then you will stop these terrorists because who's financing these terrorists you look at every single terrorist organization who's starting them who's feeding them you see it's coming from the countries but then it becomes a muslim problem fourth reason for the spread of Islamophobia is the lack of activism within the muslims we muslims we are also to blame because we don't do anything we see our soul of Allah being attacked we see our values being attacked we don't do anything about it and there are two groups of muslims we have two choices is that we sit around and we complain the religion of Islam is being attacked and then we get excited when an actor or when someone goes and says something beautiful about the muslims we get very excited we see how these people are defending the religion of Islam and then we also have another option and that is to do something to actually stand and defend our faith to defend our belief system and this is what's expected of us if we are true muslims because Allah says in the Qur'an let me sit and complain for years and months and days if I'm just complaining and I'm not doing anything nothing is going to change and the beauty of the society that we are living in is that there is an opportunity for change there is an opportunity to change the situation in society unlike the middle east where one fourth of the population is killed off and half of the population they are kicked out of the country and they have to go become refugees and you see the dictators and the tyrants all there for 30 years here there is actually room for change there is a way to change it just requires work it just requires participation it just requires him just yesterday there was an election in Canada and the prime minister who was very conservative and his whole agenda during his campaign was against the hijab as if there is nothing else to talk about his whole agenda was against the hijab you see that the Muslims they came out and they voted and today he lost his seat this is this is work and this is what is required of us this is what we have to do we have to have the willpower to change we have to believe that we can change and we are able to change there are many good things in the United States and in the West we should not only focus on the negative things and how the religion of Islam is being attacked we actually have freedom here we can actually go to a court and seek our right here because it is our right to practice our religion freely and you see many good things have happened for example last aid in New York which is probably one of the most important cities America and in the West the day of Eid is a day where all of the schools are on holiday because of the Muslim kids who are a minority all of the schools the whole public school system in New York City they took a holiday closed isn't this something good this is because of few people they actually voiced their opinion they actually said we are Muslims we also deserve rights so we have to actually work but unfortunately you see some people as soon as you tell them come and change come and do something right away they start bringing conspiracy theories no you cannot do anything it's the Zionist yes how did they have power how did they take power they got power because they actually used the process we also have to use the process my dear brothers and sisters when there is an election go out and vote because the congressmen and the officials they only listen to the one who votes they are not going to listen to someone who does not vote no matter how much you cry no matter how much you say if you are not going to vote you don't even exist but the day you begin to vote that's the day that they will listen to you so actually participate and second use the resources available there is a lot of resources that we have available but we see that we are busy wasting our time with other things use the resources that you have available for you be active take the initiative to defend your faith and defend your religion because if I don't defend my religion and my faith right now how can I guarantee that my children will be able to practice freely maybe right now I say it's not a big deal it's not a problem but we see that my children and my grandchildren will be able to actually practice here the religion we have to defend our faith we have to stand we have to voice our opinion and when we gather during محرم we teach ourselves we take lessons on how to defend our faith how to stand for our belief system this is what the whole محرم is why are we gathered here because Imam al-Hussain he voiced his opinion it just started with a word he voiced his opinion he said I cannot vote for Yazid that was it Imam al-Hussain he chose not to vote for Yazid and the companions of Imam al-Hussain they chose to for legitimacy to that corrupt government because that government it was trying to corrupt the religion of Islam and tonight we remember one of the loyal one of the brave warriors of Ashura who was the brother of Imam al-Hussain the son of the Amir al-Mu'mineen this brother of Imam al-Hussain he had such a high position he is so honored the imams that came after him they used to remember there were many Shahadaa but al-Habbas he has a special position in the eyes of the imams the imam says in the اشهد انك لم تهن ولم تنكل وعلى بصيرة من أمرك مقتدين بالصالحين ومتبعا للنبيين انك لم تتنكل في الوقتين where people break كانت الوقت that al-Habbas did not break that brave soldier that loyal brother to Imam al-Hussain you know al-Habbas he was able to drink the water after three days of not drinking the water he actually went and he penetrated through the army and he was in the ferat he places his hands in the water he brings it close and his lips are dry he's thirsty it's been such a long time he hasn't drank water as he brings the water close to him that moment is what defined about al-Fadr al-Habbas that moment he was able to drink the water but he said how can i drink the water when the son of fatimah is thirsty how can i drink the water when the children of Imam al-Hussain are yelling when the children are thirsty how can i drink water and he drops the water in the river he fills the canteen this was al-Habbas after seeing that Imam al-Hussain عليه السلام was left all alone it was only al-Abbas al-Abbas and the one who died after him was Ali al-Azhar all of the companions he gave his brothers he told his brothers to go one after the other and defend Imam al-Hussain these are the sons of Um al-Baniin Um al-Baniin he married Um al-Baniin so that they can protect Imam al-Hussain on the day of ashura al-Abbas his life it revolved around protecting Imam al-Hussain عليه السلام and he made sure that he protected the Imam of his time and the family of his Imam until his last breath the children they're crying he tells Imam al-Hussain عليه السلام he tells him oh my master he used to never call him my brother until one moment until when he was about to die he tells him oh my master please allow me to go and bring water please allow me to fight Imam al-Hussain tells him if you have to fight then bring water but the Imam he could not let go of al-Abbas he tells him oh brother he was the last one but Imam al-Hussain tells him you are my army if you die who is going to protect us who will protect the daughters of father after you by al-Abbas he was on a mission to quench the thirst of the children of Abdullah he was on a mission to quench the thirst of the children of Abdullah there's a poem it says Imam al-Hussain عليه السلام he sent abal fad and abal fad he goes out calling his name and telling them to stand in front of him whoever they are he's going to go when he's dead until he's seen the signs in the money for himself and for al-Tahr because I'm al-Abbas I'm going to drink and I'm not afraid of the evil on the day of the meeting he goes and he penetrates through the army until he reaches the farad he fills the canteen of water and then he brings the water then he remembers the thirst of Imam al-Hussain عليه السلام he begins reciting يا نفسه من بعد al-Hussain هوني وبعده لا كنت أو تكوني وتجربين the canteen of water and he begins to go be killed they surround him from all he says was the first moment he said places his head in the lap of Imam al-Hussain in his lap and then he begins to wipe the bird in the blood from the face Imam al-Hussain tells him oh my dear brother let me take you back to the camp Imam al-Hussain and al-Abbas he tells Imam al-Hussain on and walking back to the tents you can't forget for the more hours with wiping his tears with his sleeve the woman Imam al-Hussain let us raise our hands and by the love of Aba al-Fadl al-Abbas this great man Al-Abbas he has a position in the eyes of Allah anyone who is sick do tawassal turn to Allah through the love and the position of Aba al-Fadl al-Abbas he is loyal he was loyal to Imam al-Hussain he will also be loyal with us نسألك الله هما وندع باسمك العظيم الله جل للأكرمياء الله خلب القلوب الله أم أحفر للمؤمنين والمؤمنات الأحياء منهم والأم كمجيب الدعوة يجب أن نرسل ثلاثة مرحبا هناك أخي يجب أن نرسل tomorrow ويجب أن نرسل دعوة بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم والحمد لله رب العالمين وصل الله وعلى محمد وعلى


You mentioned the police and so defunding the police at present is a is a headline and so we see Garcetti moving forward with that at the same time it seems like the incumbent Jackie Lacey is getting funding from the police. And so now as it relates to her campaign. I think as humans right so humans from the outside the humans that are ingesting everything that the media is putting out. We're going so hard into defunding the police I'm not convinced that's the answer I'm convinced some sort of reform surely needs to happen some sort of movement of the funds needs to happen. As you think about this you mentioned some things around mental health. You mentioned some things around how we as humans the brain isn't necessarily there until about the age of 25 the hippocampus has to develop. What are some things that you think make the most sense. So whether that's maybe getting more lenient with people under a certain age or whether that's creating more programs as it relates to mental health focus more on at the end of the day the people that go to jail coming back right they're coming back. 94% families. So it's like what are we doing as human like what where have we gone wrong as a as a human race not as a race but as a human race where it's just we're just we're treating these people like they're they're never coming back to our society and it's just not the case. And so how do you think about solving that issue how do we think about the rehab as opposed to the complete criminalization. So I mean several things by the way that this is an American problem this is not a worldwide problem right like the Europeans have figured out a lot of this much better than we have right or to all the criminalized drug use. 23 years ago. And they've had much better results mostly European Union has the fact of the criminalized drug use of course they have also national health systems are very very as much easier for them to medicalize a problem for us right. We have so many people that do not have access to to medical or health services. But I think that first of all I think the funding the police is a term that means very different things to different people right there are some people that say 90% should be defunded other people are talking about reform I think that for me. The issue is more of reimagining the whole system understanding first of all I don't think you can reform. A system that is inherently designed to do some things that are not necessarily good for us anymore but probably never were but we understand it. So you know I don't think that you can take a horse buggy and make it into a race car. It's just not possible right and I'm making that because I'm trying to make some comparison illustrate I just don't think you cannot put a jet engine on a horse buggy right. You can put wings on a horse buggy but it's still going to fall apart when it tries to take off right. So we have to start from scratch is starting to have an honest conversation with we today and if we were Martians and we came down to earth what we design our criminal justice system the way that it is today and I believe the answer would be recently no right. It's not a system that works is a system that first of all the failure rate is horrendous right I mean on a good day we have a 40% recidivism rate. That means that everything that we touch about 40% goes wrong now. Would you be willing to walk into an airport and jump on an airline that the person checking you and says by the way you have a 40% chance that this thing is going to fall off the sky. I mean I know it's an absurd question but you know we wouldn't right but we do that we spend billions and we'll spend trillions of dollars right. And the criminal justice system that doesn't work in prisons you know we know the things that we know that public health we know that education works in fact you want to know what the biggest predictor or someone that committing a crime. Give him a high school diploma put him in college and give him housing but yeah we spend you know we send juveniles at a clip or in the state of California almost $300,000 a year to house a juvenile in a custody facility or a single adult spending $800,000 a year and you shake your head and you said where do we go wrong because that's not an international problem it's an American problem right. How do you start over do you fire everybody like how do you do that. Yeah obviously I mean I don't think you can do that right so it's gotta be it has to be a gradual thing but it has to be a gradual thing with a very clear understanding. That the objective is not to continue to polish the corners if you will, is to really reimagine the system right so there are certain things that you can take out of the policing immediately. Okay that 30% or so of calls that are mental health related. Create take that money away from the police partner with the money into public health and create a network of first responders that do not look like a cop that are medically trained to respond to that now that might take you in some counties you may be able to do that in six months or a year so comes in and take it two or three years but you start taking that money away. You get district attorneys that start not incarcerating people for pre trial low level offenses or non serious non bio offenses you know about 50% of people in any county jail are there for pre trial reasons. They haven't been deemed to be guilty yet but they're there because they're poor they cannot afford to pay them right. So get rid of money bail get rid of that 40 or 50% put them out on the street let it come to the day in court whatever the day in court looks like that will have a tremendous impact on jail population that will also have a tremendous impact on whether we need to have more jails. We could actually reduce that right. We try and we prosecute a lot of cases don't need prosecution you know we should not be prosecuting people because they have a drug addiction. They have a mental health problem right so they wear those people away from the system immediately so if you start very methodically but very clearly and very short footed about where you're going. You start the process of what I used to call actually it's funny because somebody called me they said well you've been talking about losing the footprint to the system for years. It's not the funding I said well yeah it's another way of calling you about the funding right I've been talking about less reduce the footprint to the system. There is a minimal number of things that require a batch in the gun and what we need to do is slowly get us out there but we got to do it. We cannot keep talking about it and what I'm fearful is that we keep talking about we'll create more training more diversity. None of that stuff is going to work and the perfect example you know you cited it very well Nick when you talk about three rookie officers just out of the academy with a senior guy they all clearly went through the most recent training arguably the escalation of the stuff they stood by and did nothing you know why because the culture and the structure of the system is what it is. Hey everyone thanks for checking out that clip if you enjoyed it be sure to hit the like button down below and if you're interested in hearing the full episode it's out right now on our YouTube channel. We've had a lot of great guests come on this show before and we've got a lot of great guests coming up in the future so hit subscribe so that you don't miss a single episode. In one final note we're always looking for new ideas and new companies feature on the show so if you know of someone or know of a company write us a comment down below letting us know who they are and what they do and be happy to have them on the show. Until then I'll just be here waiting for your comments so see you later.


Welcome to this episode of Talk of the Town. I'm James Milan. We are in the lovely select board chambers at Town Hall. I say lovely not only because it's a nice atmosphere, but it's air conditioned and we're very much appreciating that today as we are appreciating also the presence of our guest today. He is Sandy Poole, our town manager and first of all, thanks so much for being here. We really appreciate it. It's a pleasure to talk with you. And I have gotten to talk with you over the years and it was part of your previous, the work you did in your previous position, deputy town manager. We'll talk a little bit about that today, but I basically, this is a somewhat unusual talk of the town in that oftentimes we are interviewing folks who are coming into town for the first time into a new position, et cetera. Not the case for you. Obviously, that happened a little while ago and I think we may have even done an interview at that point. But I want to talk to you today about the fact that you've assumed the town manager role, but let's start, if you don't mind, by just kind of doing the same thing we would do if you were brand new to the town and ask you about your journey to this point, specifically professionally. What have you been up to and where and just give us a little intro of that sort. So I've been doing municipal finance for a long time. I think the irony of that maybe or maybe it's just something about the skills one needs. I came out of college with a green history, not finance or anything like that. I did public interest work at Mass Perg for five years. And then I decided to go to law school. When I came out of law school, I was really balancing between the corporate world and the public sector. I went back and forth, finally decided I would work in the public sector. And so then I started working in the Massachusetts legislature. That was a very exciting, interesting experience. I was committee counsel for a series of different committees, did a lot of interesting work there around some big issues. Then at one point, I also decided that the legal side was interesting. But really if you control the budget, that's where decisions were really made. So coinciding with my boss in the legislature deciding he was going to run for mayor of the city of Newton, I went to the Kennedy school and did their mid-career program, got my master's in public administration, took every budget class I could possibly get my hands on. And then worked for the city of Newton for eight more years as the budget director there or chief budget officer was the title. And then for the last four years I was there, I worked as the chief administrative officer which might be sort of the equivalent of a COO in a private company. Then my boss decided to change again and retire. A new mayor came in, brought in his own stuff. Right, out with the old. Exactly. I eventually ended up in the town of Amherst, which is a beautiful community out in Western Mass, as many of your viewers probably know. Started there as the finance director, had a very good experience in that town. Then unfortunately the town manager there all of a sudden died. Young guy, 52 years old, just passed away one day. So that was sad. He was a friend of mine as well as my boss. At that point, Adam Chapter Lane, the manager here, had heard that would basically asked if I was available to come to work for Arlington and along the short of it is that's how I ended up here. Well, that is, I appreciate you sharing, especially going back that far because I didn't realize, among other things, you and I have a number of parallels in our background, including a law degree that we didn't use. And I also graduated in history. And I also worked briefly for the Pergs out in California. But I have to say the fact that, and this is a totally on the side, but the fact that you were at Mass Perk for five years is astonishing. Anybody who has been involved in Perg work, that's public interest research group work in any of the states that they operate know that, boy, did they burn through young people's energy fast in those places. Understandably so. But tough work. It's a lot of work. That's right. But I have to say, coming out of there, every job I've had since has been easier. I am not. People think we're exaggerating. We are not. No, it does teach you how to work hard. Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of that is thrust into the, you know, is thrust upon people in their early 20s, early to mid 20s, who are taking on roles and again, needing to just kind of master new skills at a very, very rapid rate and then supervise incoming peers of, you know, a year, two years younger than they are, etc. Really quite the cauldron in a lot of ways. So it doesn't surprise me to hear you say that in that with, obviously, a pretty impressive resume of quite heavy responsibility in all of those jobs. So I want to then actually you brought us up to the point where you came to Arlington for the first time as deputy town manager, as you said, your predecessor, Adam chapter Lane, reached out to see if you were available. Therefore, clearly, your reputation preceded you. Was that your, did you know anything about Arlington at that time? If not, tell us a little bit as you recall, what it was like to come into this community, what your impressions were of the community, etc. So I had lived in Arlington the year after I graduated from college. So that was 1979. I'd lived here for three or four months down on Palmer Street, right off of Mass Ave. Arlington was a very different town then. It was a dry town back then. I remember there was a fountain in the middle of town center, sort of near the firehouse. And from time to time, high school students would fill it with with detergent and it would bubble up. So that was the Arlington that I remembered. It my understanding of the town since then, it has a reputation for being a very well run town. It is, I think, a financial leader across the state for how it manages its money. It has changed as a community a lot with the development of restaurants and diversity and, you know, everything from the commercial base to the the types of people who live here. And the school system has really grown and become one of the strongest in the state. So both just the community atmosphere was appealing and the professional atmosphere here in Town Hall. I knew I was going to come in and work with colleagues. I liked, you know, starting with Adam, I'd known him before and, you know, had a lot of respect for him. And just very quickly meeting the other staff here, it was apparent that it was a high quality group of people. So it was easy to to come in. So good and easy choice at that point for you. Great. And then so just remind people briefly in your role as deputy town manager, what were your primary responsibilities? Well, there was a transformation over time in this job and I think in most jobs I've had, my responsibilities have sort of grown as I have poked my way into doing more and more things. My partner says I'm a buddhinsky. I'm sure they mean it in the nicest way. I'm not sure she always means it in the nicest way, but she's known me for a long time, so I would say yes. So I started, you know, in charge of the budget and doing sort of that aspect of it. And I think very quickly I inserted in myself to trying to bring together all the different financial departments. So I would hold weekly finance team meetings with the treasurer, comtroller, assessor, school business agent and just get us all in the same room. Sometimes we bring in the IT department and just make sure we were talking with each other. At that time, the treasurer was a separately elected official. The comtroller worked not for the manager, but for the select board and of course, the school business agent worked for school committee. And but I just, in my experience thought it was very important that everybody be in the same room and sharing their experiences, working on problems together. I think it was a very productive set of meetings. It eventually led us to a more formal structure where one of the town meeting members suggested that we have a finance director position in town. It was Dean Karman who put that forward. I think he came to that conclusion as he was the town treasurer, put that through town meetings. So then I became the finance director in a formal sense after having done it informally. So I've been doing that ever since. And I think it's been great for the town. We also helped transform the treasurer firm and elected to an appointed position, transform the comtroller to be accountable to the town manager directly. And I just think it's made for smoother, better operations. I have since then taken my management and analyst, Julie Wayman, transformed her from helping with the budget to really putting the budget together. She did that this last year. I asked her to start doing that, partly because I knew there was a chance that there'd be a transformation and partly because I just thought she was ready for it. So threw her into the budget and told her to swim and she did a great job. So I think that's been a big part of my experience here. I've also been very involved in collective bargaining along with Karen Malloy, our human resources director. I think that's been very successful. We've had a very open process with our unions. We've put together a lot of data on the town's financial condition. We've put a lot of data together for them on how different salary proposals will affect their members and allow them to see spreadsheets with member by member, showing what different colas or different step patterns or other things have been. And it's really been a positive relationship with I'd say most of the unions. It's really gone from a world where I first started doing collective bargaining years ago where you sort of hid all the money to one saying, hey, the books are open to public process. Let's just talk about how we get to a contract. And I will credit Karen a lot with that for her understanding of how important it is to have good relations with our unions. And by having those, we are just able to get through a lot of problems seamlessly or at least with minor bumps in the road. So I'd say those are two of our biggest or my biggest institutional changes. And I guess the one other thing I would mention is the whole process of building the high school and being on the high school building committee. It's been great to see it go from an idea to steal to actually having the first wing built up there. I'm still on the building committee. I still attend those meetings once a month. And it's been an exciting process. That is, it's a great kind of description of the things that you've been up to over your years here so far. And what I was really struck by is the fact that you have a low profile until recently, you've had a low profile in town. People might recognize you, might recognize your name, might not. And yet you have been kind of absolutely intrinsically involved in changes that are meant to, and I'm sure indeed benefit the community as a whole, working behind the scenes. So interesting really that you are emerging into the light at this moment. But again, as somebody who has been working hard on behalf of the community more in the shadows, or not the shadows, but more under the radar I guess. I've always liked being a number two. I think at the Kennedy School, they teach you how to be a leader and so forth. I think they need to emphasize a little bit more that actually being the number two in an organization is an important role. There's an ability to get a lot done, to counsel the number one, to sometimes hold the number one's hand. But to bring about some substantive change and do it behind the scenes in a way that doesn't, I've always tried to keep my name out of the press, except with you. But I haven't seen that over time as my role. It's been my role to bring about institutional change and improvement and I've really enjoyed doing it. Yeah, and I really liked the analogy you made earlier about the work that you did in Newton being similar to a COO because, again, the CEO, or in our case, Town Manager, that's the person out there in front doing the communicating. Adam often mentioned that he wasn't doing the work itself, he was basically communicating about it. And obviously he was very good at that and I'm sure you are and will be as well. But you've just made a really kind of compelling case for why actually being in the number two position, so to speak, being to the side of the throne or whatever, does allow you to actually have the ability to make change. Yes, I think it does. And to be involved in the work itself in that way. And that is satisfying in an entirely different way, right? Exactly. Let's jump to the present. And I'm thinking that you were saying earlier that the decision to come to Arlington's Deputy Town Manager, Adam's invitation, was an easy one. How was this one? So far, so good. I've seen myself to date as essentially trying to oil a machine that runs pretty well. We have very talented department heads. We have a lot of very talented, dedicated staff. I try to let them do their jobs and not interfere with that. And I think in general they- So what about that Bedinsky part though? Well, you know, there's always some internal tension. Sorry to interrupt. No, that's all right. So I do try to talk with the department heads. One of the things I've done since becoming manager is go around and meet personally with each department head in his or her office and just ask them, all right, I've known you for the last six years through the budget process and so forth. And there are things though that you've probably told the town manager that I now need to know. So let's talk about that. And let's talk about where you see your department going in the next year. And so that's been an important conversation or set of conversations I've had with all the department heads now. And again, I think generally they are good at sort of running things and on a day to day basis. I think I have played some positive roles in talking through particular issues that have come up, whether it's just dealing with select board, which sometimes they have questions about, or dealing with constituents, or dealing with the press, or dealing with the unions, all of which are things that I think the department heads, they just need a wall to bounce ideas off of. And then I try to ask questions about how things are going and get a real sense. So I do know what's happening and I can talk to you or I can talk to the select board, I can talk to constituents about it. There are a number of big projects that we've got going on. I was just at an event today for the topping off ceremony at the new DPW building. So they put the last piece of steel up, they bolted it in place and raised it up with a tree and a flagpole on it. We all got to sign it. And it's getting the kind of project that I've had a lot of involvement on the finance side. And now just dealing with DPW as to how they've managed their staff during the interim, where they put staff, how we've given them the resources to get their work done while they're out of the building. And just keeping an eye on that without I think interfering with how they actually get their work done. An enormous new building that is going to be. Oh yeah. Clearly and great that there was a milestone just today, topically as we're meeting here for again, these are the kinds of things that as deputy town manager, you probably were finance director, you probably had a choice, whether you want to go or not in a sense. No such thing anymore, right? Yeah, no, I think, yeah, there are a number of things like that. I think, you know, the high school too. I mean, Arlington has got two huge projects going forward in this next year. It's again, my intention to just help things move forward. If there are problems, help deal with them, you know, and with both those projects, there have been any number of challenges along the way. Thankfully now, I think we're at the stage where they're both sort of running along and should sort of glide into completion. So keep it with you. I'm trying to be optimistic. Exactly. Well, we all like the sound of that verb. That's for sure. Let us hope that that is in fact the case. I was wondering though, you just mentioned over the next year and my understanding, and let me make sure I've got this right, is that your contract with the select board, with the town is for a year. Correct. Which is not as long as usually the case, I think. So can you talk to us a little bit about that? Is that because this was again, not something you had anticipated necessarily, the ascension to the town manager position and you had other plans? Well, I'll let you speak to it. Sure. So I had always thought that next summer would be when I would retire. I mean, both because I will max out on my retirement, just the numbers, when you're in a public system, you get to a certain point. I will be 66, almost 67 by then. And frankly, there are other things I'd like to do. I'd like to relax a little bit more. I've been working hard for a long time, travel and with my partner and so forth. So I'd always thought that I would retire then. And I also think in this coming year, it is in the town's interest and I think the select board agreed to have some stability in the next year, both because we're likely to have an override or there's certainly gonna be discussions about an override in this coming year, probably next spring, although all that needs to be decided. And so I think instead of bringing somebody in right before that happens or in the midst of that happening, it would be in the town's interest to have that continuity. And so the select board agreed with that and we'll go through that process. We'll allow them to start the search process for new town manager this winter to bring somebody in, probably beginning of next fiscal year or thereabouts, but not have to be the person who's leading the override discussion. And again, I feel comfortable doing this. I think the town is in good shape. I think the departments are being well run. If we have to deal with the override, I think I can make the case for the impacts of that override and so forth. If it turns out that the override isn't successful, I've been through situations where we've had to have cutbacks. When I was in Newton, several years in a row, I would have to ask departments to propose 5% budget cuts because back in those days in the early 2000s, health insurance costs were going up so much that we just didn't have the money to do other things. So I think I've been on both sides of that coin and I hope I can offer something to the town during this next year as we go into that big decision. I think both your experience and your demeanor frankly and your expertise, all of those things are a real boon for the town at this moment for sure because you just have been through overrides from a lot of different perspectives before. I also know from my series of conversations with you over the years about the budget that in Arlington, you can see things coming.  And then the town is quite good at communicating, getting people ready and prepared for the fact that this is coming. This is not gonna be a surprise. So, but it will require kind of steady and steady stewardship and good communication, no doubt about it because it's nobody's favorite thing. Right. Right. Yeah, I think we have balancing what against each other, both the desire not to raise taxes or at least too much and set a very high expectations that the public has for the level of services in this town. And it's keeping those two things in balance that will be the challenge in the coming years. Seems like it, I can go back about eight years now myself in terms of talking to different stakeholders and decision makers around these things. And yeah, that balances, whoof. That is a tough needle to thread. So glad it's your job and not mine. I'll say that much. So, Sandy, let me ask you the last thing. I know that your term is quite defined and you're anticipating your dessert, well-deserved retirement on the other side of that, et cetera. But do you have ambitions, goals, targets that you'd like to see accomplished beyond what you've mentioned already here, kind of providing that stewardship over this next little while? So in addition to the override in these building projects, there are energy and environmental issues that Adam did a great job of setting us forth on. So we have, for example, this fall, there's an electrify Arlington plan where we are hiring some advisors for residents who are thinking of making their homes all electric. And I'm going through that myself. I'm doing that my own home. I live in Somerville. I've just signed a contract with somebody to put in mini splits and all that stuff. But it is, it's a daunting process. And I think providing that sort of help to people. We have a good record in town of helping people putting solar on their homes, and that was a very successful program. So this electrify Arlington will be a great program. And we do have a net zero action plan, net zero by 2050. This will be an important part of that. And in any number of other environmental ways, we want to continue to make Arlington green. The other thing, again, I would give a lot of credit to Adam for starting this off is our diversity, equity and inclusion plan. We have a great DEI director in Jill Harvey and her staff. She's been doing a lot of great work. We have some consultants who are coming in doing an equity audit in the town. There's a lot of work that is planned for this fall and the next year with more training for our staff and more discussions in the community about this issue. It is one of the big issues of the day. When you have these discussions, you're always learning something about yourself. You're learning something about people around you. These are important discussions to have both from the learning perspective and from the action perspective to help make this a more inclusive and welcoming community. So I'm very much behind that and very much looking forward to continuing doing that kind of work. So that and making sure the garbage is picked up on the street, the snow is picked up and 9-1-1 works, all those things are things we'll look forward to continue to work on. Absolutely, the COO in you is gonna make sure that those things that the trains keep running on time, so to speak. Good enough. Well, I know that I get to speak to you regularly because we do the town hall update together and we will continue to do that. So, but I wanna say I particularly appreciated just being able to sit down, dig a little bit deeper, especially into who you are and what you've done in your life, which is very interesting. But thanks so much for taking the time to do this. James, it was a pleasure and enjoyed talking with you. Very, very, very nice. I have been speaking to Sandy Pooler, who is our town manager, and boy, he's got quite the resume and also hopefully some clear or some enticing retirement plans a little ways ahead of him. There's some work to do between now and then. So we wish you very good luck with that. We will be here to monitor the progress and to celebrate, let's hope, new buildings, new accomplishments, et cetera. This has been Talk of the Town. I have been speaking, as I said, to Sandy Pooler, our town manager. I am James Milan. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you next time.


All three Keanu Reeves cyberpunk trailers in one place. What more do you need in life? Check them out and drop a like if you want more cyberpunk on my behalf. Now cyberpunk is only one month away people. Life is about to get way more fun. Enjoy the video and hopefully I will see you on that next. One. In 2077 what makes someone a criminal? Getting caught. In Night City you can become anyone. Anything. If your body can pay the price. So seize the day. Then set it on fire. Welcome to Night City. The only limit to what you can do is what you're willing to become. If you can hack it, the future is yours for the take. Why do you come here? For fun? For a shock to the system? Make this whole city burn.


It has been three days since a man considered dangerous escaped from the custody of a Beltrami County corrections officer. Since Friday, the search for 22 year old Keanu Major has expanded significantly. Local sheriff's offices, state patrol and the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension are all assisting in the search that has taken on a more regional focus. Major was last seen late Friday morning near the community of Lake George. Authorities tell us that tips are still coming in and that major may be headed to the Fargo area. We've been following up on leads all weekend and we've got a large team of investigators out right now working on tracking leads. And it's just a matter of time before we get him back into custody. The escape happened after a fight broke out between major and another inmate at the Beltrami County Jail. Major was taken to Samford Hospital for evaluation of his injuries. It was then that he escaped by using the restroom and leaving through another exit in the restroom that was unknown to the corrections officer. After the escape, changes have been made to ensure that this won't ever happen again. We've made some policy changes at the jail. We've taken a look at this and made sure that something like this doesn't happen again. We've also reached out to Samford and spoken with them um uh to make sure that um our staff doesn't um uh you know create some problems for the Samford staff. Major is described as a five foot ten one hundred and ninety five pound Native American male with black hair, facial hair and hazel eyes. He also has a tattoo on his neck that says Victoria. Major is considered dangerous and the public is asked not to make contact with him. If you see major or know of his whereabouts, you are asked to call 911. If you've enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax deductible contribution to Lakeland Public Television.


It's a horrible thing, but you certainly learn a lot from the process. River came up over the road for quite some time. We had eight inches on the main floor of our house. The north wall and the south wall were off and it looked like a dollhouse. The water level on the main floor had reached about two and a half to three feet. Do we walk away from the house? Can we afford to even rebuild? View what's in front of you in the case of a marathon, not a sprint. The University of Minnesota Extension and North Dakota State University Extension Service have developed Recovery After Disaster, the family financial toolkit to assist in financial recovery from disaster. The toolkit is free and available at this website. These tools will help you think through the situation that you're in to establish priorities and decide what needs to be done and help you to act with purpose in moving forward after the disaster.  It is okay to ask for help, it is okay to look for the helps and to recognize that people in voluntary organizations are reaching out to say, let's do this together. In a perfect world, we would be prepared for a disaster, but we know that this is not always the case. We were two years removed and there are a lot of people that have still had a difficult time making decisions on what to do as you see a lot of empty houses still around here. There's a couple of houses that have never been touched since the flood. When a disaster happens, case managers are sometimes available to assist survivors. Recovery from disaster is difficult and complicated, and a case manager can guide you on this journey. The role of case management as a system is to be the backbone of recovery. Helping them to understand what resources they have is a huge part of that and how to make do with those resources. There's a lot of services that are available and out there after a natural disaster, and you'd be surprised at how just talking it out with somebody else can take a whole big weight off your shoulders. After a disaster, some communities may organize a long-term recovery committee. This committee is made up of community, government and faith-based agency representatives, and community leaders who address the unmet needs of individuals and families, as well as the community as a whole following a disaster. Long-term recovery will not only help them, you know, put some 2x4s back up and put sheet rock and put new carpet in, but help them think through, how are they going to deal with this financially? What do they need to do psychologically? It is important to recognize that your life will never be exactly the same as it was. Consider what you want your new reality to look like. A community arises out of a disaster, stronger, more deeply connected, and great believers in themselves that whatever we face, we can face it together.