Welcome. I'm Mark Uptegrove, the President and CEO of the LBJ Foundation. We're pleased to partner with Baker Botts and the Baker Institute for Public Policy at Rice University on a conversation with Secretary James Baker, New York Times Chief White House correspondent Peter Baker and New York staff writer Susan Glasser on Peter and Susan's book, The Man Who Ran Washington, The Life and Times of James A. Baker III. Mr. Secretary, we'll start with you. You had a battle with COVID-19 earlier this year and we were all worried about you. How are you doing? How are you feeling? I'm doing great, Mark. Thank you very much. I just got back from my ranch in Wyoming where I was elk hunting with my son and grandson and so I'm able to do that so I feel really pretty good and fortunately I had what turned out to be a pretty mild case of the virus but I want to tell everybody who's tuned in, you don't want to get it. It is no fun. It really hammers you. But I'm doing great. Thank you. So as Susan Glasser said before the call, we all want your genes, Mr. Secretary. Susan Peter, congratulations on The Man Who Ran Washington. My first question is more a lifestyle question. You have out the Blockbuster book. We have a president with a penchant for making news and we're in the midst of the most consequential election of our lifetimes. How are you doing it? How are you balancing all these things? What does your life look like right now? We may be the only people who are grateful for having to stay home. Mark, we're sitting in our living room talking to you now doing all of our book appearances by Zoom and then picking up the laptop and Peter's writing stories for the New York Times and I'm writing my column but we're super grateful to you really as the godfather in some ways of this book and of course to Secretary Baker for enabling us over years and it took us a long time to write this book. Well, Peter, what did you want to achieve with The Man Who Ran Washington? Well, I think first of all we were surprised to learn when you and I talked about this way back in 2013 when we sat and talked about who had not had a worthy biography written of them major figure in American life and it was really stunning to think that nobody had written something on Secretary Baker. Not only was he Secretary of State during this incredibly consequential time but as you pointed out he had his hand in so many other events over the course of really a quarter century in America and we thought his story tells us a lot about Washington in that moment as well. How things worked, how they didn't work and how things have changed since then. So we thought that it was a great story about him but also a larger story about Washington, about America in general. Susan, I knew about obviously I've read a lot about Secretary Baker's career but in reading your book I was reminded of so much more that he accomplished. I wonder if you could give us a cursory look at Secretary Baker's very consequential career as a government public servant. Well that's right I mean you know I think first of all we've been calling it Secretary Baker the world's most successful mid-career switch you know not even coming to Washington until your early 40s and yet you know assembling this remarkable portfolio that began with rising in barely one year's time from a relatively obscure position at the Commerce Department to running the campaign of the incumbent President of the United States Jerry Ford you know in and of itself a remarkable thing but Mark to your question you know from that period when he comes to Washington as Ronald Reagan's chief of staff in the White House you know when you look at the record of the number of deals that were made at a time when now we can't even manage to come together as a country to pass a relief package for coronavirus victims in this economic tsunami you know Secretary Baker was able to work with Democrats on social security reform on tax reform in 1986 he was you know the first thing after the very divisive 1988 campaign was to sit down with Jim Wright and to put an end to the political fighting over US support for the contra wars and of course he negotiated with Soviets numerous arms control packs as well as the framework for the German reunification talks we're celebrating the 30th anniversary of today so you know I could go on but it's a pretty remarkable record at a time when any deal seems elusive in Washington today I want to quote you Peter Susan about Secretary Baker's time as what you call the the gold standard for White House chiefs of staff and you write in the book he had seen how Washington chewed up and had chewed up and spit out would be power brokers it was a tough city Jubers was an occupational hazard one day you were the man next to the president the next day you were camp aside no longer relevant even humiliated so mr secretary not only survived you thrived what was the key to your success well I think Mark one thing I was always imbued with a with a work ethic my my father and mother always taught me never to start anything that I wasn't prepared to finish and to finish what I started but the reason I think that I was successful in those jobs is because I was working for some extraordinarily fine wonderful capable presidents of the United States and they were presidents who thought that they that the reason they were in Washington leading the country was to do the people's business and to get things done and that's what drove me the idea that we ought to we ought to get things done for the American people but I think primarily my success is attributable to the wonderful presidents I worked for but also the extraordinarily well qualified assistants who worked with me and who came to Washington with me mr secretary how did you it clearly you don't have a good relationship with the president unless you engender their trust how did you establish the trust of the president you worked for well I think the way you do that is to perform for them and to do what within legal constraints and reason they want you to do and to do it as expeditiously as possible but to let them know through your contact with them that they can and they can trust your word they can rely on you that if they assign a task to you you're going to do everything in the world to try and complete that task I didn't have any trouble frankly I worked for for three full time for three wonderful presidents Jerry Ford Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush and of course part time for a fourth George W Bush and I never had any doubt whatsoever in four years as Ronald Reagan's chief of staff there was only one time that I felt a little bit like I wasn't appreciated that they didn't maybe trust me and you know I was the interloper I came into the Reagan administration having run two campaigns against Ronald Reagan and yet he asked me to be his White House chief of staff I don't think that's ever going to happen again in American in American politics but it says something about the broad gauge nature of Ronald Reagan with George Bush of course I had I didn't have to establish or prove my trust to awareness he and I had been friends for 40 years he was my daughter my daughter's godfather and and I had run all of his campaigns so there was no no problem establishing trust there clearly Susan you write in the book that Secretary Baker was the most consequential secretary of state since Henry Kidder how so well you know look you could write a whole book and many people have written books just about this remarkable period of 1989 to 1991 when the hinges of world history were clearly shifting and unlike this present moment they were largely shifting in the US's favor but you know when Peter and I did this book we had spent four years in the former Soviet Union just a decade after these events I think we came to a renewed appreciation for the fact that you know in hindsight it may look inevitable but it wasn't really inevitable and in particular when you look at the actions that Secretary Baker took often you know he himself would probably tell us today he's a you know cautious man but he took some very bold steps to make sure that the German unification which nobody expected inside his State Department before November 1989 they then acted very swiftly and by the winter the early winter of 1990 he helped you not only come up with but to get agreement from feuding allies over a framework for German unification which was signed just you know barely six months after that by the next fall imagine that Saddam Hussein had invaded Kuwait sooner imagine that Gorbachev had had a coup by hardliners sooner all of these events occurred and so I think this is a classic example of a secretary of state who mattered you know at a moment that mattered as well right it's it's the marriage of the two Mr. Secretary there was no certainty that the Cold War would end peacefully and lead to a new era in the world what do you think made the difference during that during that time in in in US leadership well I think I think that we were consistent you know the French and the British and the and the Soviet Union didn't want to see Germany unified but it was a feeling strong feeling of George H.W. Bush President Bush and Helmut Kohl the Chancellor of West Germany that you know the West writ large and talked for many years about freeing the peoples of the captive nations of Eastern Europe well some of those people were in the German Democratic Republic East Germany and we talked about it for 40 years well when the time came where we had an opportunity to try and do something about it it would have been a crime not to try so we tried and we were fortunately successful over the objections of the British the French and and the Soviet Union and as Susan just pointed out there was a narrow window of opportunity to get this done we were quite fortunate that we got it done and there were a lot of there were a lot of people who didn't think it was going to make it at the time Peter you write of Secretary Baker he was not defined by his era he helped to define it where did James Baker make his most significant mark well I think continuing what we've just been saying I think you're right to say it's not inevitable like it could have been so different this was a very volatile moment we remember it in hagiographic terms almost because it did work out so well but it could have so easily gone the wrong way Gorbachev could have been overthrown earlier the hardliners could have you know come in and set tanks into the east they could have stopped they had 300,000 troops in east Germany at the time of the negotiation that Secretary Baker is talking about here they could have said no and it was very easy it's very easy to imagine a scenario that would have been catastrophic in a lot of ways and I think therefore you have to say that while the forces of history were moving and they were not you know precipitated by Secretary Baker or President Bush necessarily it was the fact that they figured out how to harness them and steer them in a direction that led to a positive outcome that was probably the most significant uh you know achievement of this period. Mr. Secretary as Peter's alluding to you presided as Secretary of State when America had triumphed in the Cold War and stood a stride in the world as the uncontested superpower um how do you think America has perceived abroad today? Well you know the the goal as as I understood it and do understand it having spent four years at Secretary of State is that you really want to be respected by your allies and feared by your adversaries I don't think that's any longer the case today I'm sad to say I particularly don't think that we are respected by our allies and there are a lot of differences now between America and her allies and I think there are some who do not appreciate how very very important our alliances are to our international well-being and to the well-being therefore of our of our domestic polity. I just think that uh that it's too bad that we have not nurtured these alliances which have been so important to America over the course of the past 40 or 50 years. I do think we're still perhaps feared by our adversaries as well we should be um and and that part is probably alright but we're but we're not respected by our allies and the reason is I think sadly Mark we're not leading I've always said that it's really important for America to lead internationally I firmly believe that when America is engaged internationally and is leading that we are a force for good that we are that we are a force for peace and stability we never all of our intervention none of our interventions are for a gain for America in terms of territory or or treasure or anything like that uh but there used to be a greater appreciation of America's leadership role in the world than there is today because we were doing a better job of leading than we are today Mr. Secretary, if you were at the helm uh today what would you do to ensure that we regain our position as a leader in the world? Well I think we have to the first thing I'd do is see if we can repair our alliances, restrain them, get them, put them in the kind of good shape they were in during the Cold War and during our period in office. We relied heavily on those. Germany would never have been unified without our relationship with the Federal Republic of Germany. We wouldn't have won the Cold War by ourselves. It was our it was our strong alliances, the transatlantic alliance with Europe and our security alliance with Japan and Korea and the Pacific and those things all need they need care and feeding and tending and that's something we ought to really pay attention to and start doing again as we move into a new administration. What do you think the greatest trouble spot in the world is? I think that one thing that well let me say one thing that I think has happened that is good is that finally we are we are confronting China with respect to its broken promises to the international community. I'm one who worked really hard to get try and get China into the world trading organization and we got them in and we thought and perhaps erroneously that this would cause them to change their behavior but he didn't and they have not they have not kept their promises to the rest of the world. So I think that that's really we're doing well in that regard. You asked about what the biggest threats are facing America. That's not exactly what you asked but that's part of that that includes your question.  We've got to find a way to get back to doing business the way we used to where the the two major political parties would cooperate and compromise to do the people's business. We've got that problem. We've got the problem of of the fiscal kicking fiscal debt bomb.  It says the former secretary of the treasury. Peter I want to go back to Secretary Baker's point about the dysfunction in Washington. You've covered Washington for a couple decades now and and you've seen a whole lot in your experience. What is the biggest change in Washington since James Baker was in government. Yeah I think look we shouldn't over romanticize the past. It was partisan in his era just as as partisan today and there were certainly moments of dysfunction then as there are now but what's different is that there wasn't the that wasn't the only thing right that wasn't the consuming nature of Washington at that time. Secretary Baker will tell you he could be fiercely competitive in an election and then sit down after the election and work things out with Democrats and the purpose of the election was to get to the point where you could govern and I think today what you see is in some way the opposite the purpose of governing is to set up the next election and that there doesn't seem to be the incentive structure that there was back then much less the people to take advantage of it to compromise. Compromise today is a dirty word. If you compromise it means you have given up something you've sold out. You've abandoned your party or your principles whereas in that era in Baker's era there was a value of political virtue and a political reward for showing bipartisanship for managing this across the island say let's solve big problems and I think that's what we see as the most significant difference between that his Washington and today's Washington. Susan as you write in the book one of the lessons of Secretary Baker's career is as you write when the tectonic plates of history move move with them would somebody as as competent and as adaptable as James Baker succeed in today's Washington. You know Mark we've been getting that question a lot understandably I do think that you know at the moment we're living in Secretary Baker's reputation for sheer competence you know that's a word that we don't hear a lot right now and that would go far in this or any moment in history and so you know in part you could you could read his story as some eternal lessons for how to get ahead and succeed in politics you know don't lie to the press is one particular lesson that Peter and I appreciate of you know but look competence you know always succeeds but the broader question of to what end I do think the structural impediments to working together is is a fundamental shift in our politics right now nobody is seeking the 51% strategy you know people are no longer seeking to persuade others they're seeking to mobilize those who already agree with them and I think that you know look Secretary Baker you know made a difference in many different ways not just by you know showing up at hard work he's very modest to say that was the secret of his success because this town is filled with hardworking you know workaholic lawyers who call everybody back and they don't all get to do those remarkable array of things I think we'd like to think that a Secretary Baker could come in but in in all honesty looking at this administration you know there's no level there's no one who could manage and constrain the situation that we're in right now that has to be the inevitable conclusion from already having I think more chiefs of staff in the role than anyone else already having more national security advisors in this White House then since the position was created in the aftermath of World War II Mr. Secretary Peter and Susan right of Donald Trump in the book's introduction he disparaged long-standing alliances that you alluded to earlier vowed to rip up free trade packs decried American leadership outside its borders casually embraced a new nuclear arms race and sought to reverse the globalization that had defined international politics and economics since the end of World War II he opposed just about everything that Baker and the modern Republican Party supported and yet they write that while you momentarily considered writing for Joe Biden you said to them please don't say that I will vote for for Biden I will vote for the Republican I really will I won't leave my party so Mr. Secretary why are you not willing to leave a party that has so manifestly left you well because the main reason of Mark is that I am a conservative now when I became Ronald Reagan's chief of staff and the hard line ideologues in the Reagan administration wouldn't give me credit for being a conservative they beat up on me pretty good but look I'm a Texan I'm a conservative and and I really believe in conservative principles and values I believe in limited government I believe in pro-growth economic policies I believe in a strong defense I believe in conservative judges all of these things make a big difference in my in my calculus I don't try to defend our current chief executive I think they write it they quote me and they're saying he's his own worst enemy and they and maybe quote me as saying something more negative than that but but at the end of the day and let me say one thing before at the end of the day I'm a conservative and I am concerned about the direction of our country I have 19 grandchildren and five great-grandchildren and I want to see the kind of America that I was privileged to enjoy see that enjoyed by my grandchildren and great-grandchildren and I look at that democratic platform which Joe Biden is going to have to support and it scares the hell out of me and I want to say though having said that I like Joe Biden I've worked with him he's been down here to the Baker Institute I think at least twice I respect him as a man who likes as I did to reach across the aisle and probably try to get some things done but I worry when I look at that platform about how really radical and liberal it is so that's why I am going to stay where I am it's not a party thing it's really not an individual thing it's it has to do with the future direction of our country mr. K you mentioned you worked with Joe Biden while you were in government Joe Biden was the senator from Delaware right you mentioned the dysfunction he was vice president too and I went out there and worked with him with him and with president Obama and others on the new start treaty and who helped to help with that a little bit and that's what I meant by that no I understand and and I you know Joe Biden again you work with him in in his capacity as senator and vice president you mentioned the dysfunction in Washington we alluded to the divisions in our country would Joe Biden be good in uniting the country and bringing Washington together as a consensus builder it would depend entirely upon the step and degree to which he is bound to that platform and the deal that he had to cut with the more progressive elements in his party I think I mean Joe is essentially one who would like to sit down and reach across the aisle and find an agreement find a deal just like I mean I just like I used to do all the time that's the way you govern that's the way you ought to govern politics is the art of compromise as Peter said compromise today is a dirty word my worry about Joe frankly is that he has to pay a lot of attention now to those elements that control the democratic party which has moved very very far left and that scares me one of the differences in ensuring that there was a peaceful resolution to the Cold War Mr. Secretary you talked about it is the humility and restraint by the 41st president George Bush and frankly it mirrored your own humility and restraint I wonder did the president's performance in the debate last week give you pause about about Donald Trump and his ability to be the commander-in-chief of our nation well I've already told you I had I had reservations about our current chief executive that doesn't mean that I'm I'm not going to vote for him because of the larger issue that we just went through but I thought that debate was a disaster but I didn't think that I didn't think either candidate was particularly effective but what I really regretted was the nature of the food fight and that's not the way presidential debates ought to ought to go and I and I frankly felt really sorry for Chris Wallace whom I've known forever and he was a wonderful journalist but it was terrifically difficult to control to control the dialogue in that debate and I thought the debate when in fact was a food fight having had COVID-19 Mr. Secretary and experiencing the virus first hand it how would you would you have managed the COVID-19 crisis differently than the Trump administration has well I don't know perhaps so what one thing that I think is is important to remember is how vital message discipline is when you're running a white house or when you're running a campaign you ought to make sure that everybody has the has the story and that everybody sticks to it and that it's uniform and you don't change your your story every every so often and I'm afraid that's what was going on in the briefings on the on the virus in the in the press room at the White House right uh Susan what is the what is the legacy of James a Baker the third how do you think he will go down in history well uh you know secretary Baker is is good at speaking for himself as we've heard uh you know what Peter and I were struck by in our conversations with him uh was always a you know a real palpable desire uh to escape the label of you know really having been a political handler a political strategist and to be remembered as a statesman and a diplomat in addition to being a Texan I'm quite sure that that would be a big part of his legacy and his family's legacy but you know what I would say is that I might disagree a tiny bit and say that he was a master political strategist but in a big definition of politics whether that was politics in the american sense running five national presidential campaigns or politics in the international sense and that he really brought in fact a canny politicians sense to the necessities of creating a post cold war uh order that would endure and that it was uh politics in the biggest possible sense defining the age from the end of watergate to the end of the cold war either what are your thoughts on president or whether on secretary Baker's legacy that would that might have been a fraud but well look you know he would have been an interesting president I think that would have been a different counterfactual in history right um I agree that I think Susan said I think he wants obviously and he can speak for himself but I think that he would point to his time as secretary of state of the statesman the first of the two memoirs he wrote of course was about his four years as secretary of state he didn't want at first anyway to focus on the rest of his story later I think and I'm glad he did uh wrote a political memoir about his time uh you know in other jobs but you know I think that it's it's uh you know you you quote the book saying he was the most consequential secretary of state since Kissinger I could even make the argument more so honestly I with all respect to secretary Kissinger I know Secretary Kissinger has a certain celebrity that's uh that precedes everybody but I think that that four-year period in our lifetime uh you know in the in the post cold in the post world war two era you know stands out as as as Susan said the hinge of history changing so I think that's that's it's hard to beat that legacy. Mr. Secretary uh uh clearly you will be remembered as a as a great statesman but as Peter and Susan pointed out you ran five presidential campaigns which is absolutely stunning uh as we approach uh the presidential election of of 2020 and election day do you worry about the soundness of our system? You know I really don't mark I I think our institutions are strong I know there's a there are people out there who are really worried about whether we're going to um eliminate some of our important institutions or diminish them or um but but I have perhaps having spent so much time uh uh with President's close up I I have a I have a sense of the restraints that they are subject to uh and I I just do not I really don't worry about American democracy I worry about some discreet things from time to time I I you know I I'll have to tell you probably think this I'm saying this just because I'm a republican it's not true I worry about court packing I packing the supreme court I worry about uh attacks on our constitution that are done in a legal way but I do not worry about the system surviving we you you read a lot some nowadays about our democracy is under attack or under assault there are so many restraints upon a president's ability uh to to get off some rails if you will that I really don't worry about that our our system of facts and balances is quite effective and quite strong in my view I won't ask you who you will vote for Mr. Secretary because you've made that pretty clear but I will ask you how will you cast your vote where well how will you do it by mail will you go to the polls how do you I'll go I'll go to the polls and vote absentee during this how do you want to be remembered uh when when the history is written about your your service in government how do you wish to be remembered you know I went to a an event after I left uh as uh after I left government after Jerry Ford lost to Jimmy Carter in a campaign that I ran for for Jerry Ford or led for Jerry Ford I went to an event in Lake Como and there were a number of people there there were political people and substantive people and one of the guys who was there was a guy named Bob Schrum I you all may remember about he was a Kennedy political operative and he was he was quite accomplished politically and and uh I remember the moderator asked or asked her question of of Schrum that uh that had to do with substance some substantive issue and Schrum said look you are asked Baker that question he said he does politics and policy I just do politics well I'm really proud frankly of the fact that I was able to achieve something in politics and in policy and that's why I entitled my first memoir about my time as secretary state the politics of diplomacy because I think my political experience really helped me uh in in in those jobs both white house chief of staff which is a big political job yes but then as treasury secretary and as secretary state but you asked me how I want to be remembered is that what you asked me I guarantee I'll take I'll tell you how I want to be remembered I want to be remembered as the guy who ran five presidential campaigns for three different republican presidents and then served as chief of staff for two different republican presidents and then served for almost four years as secretary of treasury and four years as secretary state and and spent 12 years in washington and left unindicted that's how I want to be remembered I think that's my biggest accomplishment well I have no doubt that you will be remembered for all that and more and Mr. Secretary I can't let you go without asking you what advice would you give young aspiring Jim bakers who wish to make a career in government service I know you've talked about the the five p's and the importance of hard work your five p rule which is prior preparation prevents poor performance but but it alluded to a humility you're you're not telling us something some key ingredient to your great success what would you tell young folks today well I think that if you want if you want to have a role in policy you need to understand that politics is the way you get to practice policy I've always seen the two and Peter and Susan make this quite clear in a at two discrete pursuits politics is one thing politics is is getting elected so that you can do policy and and therefore I would tell young people that you ought to figure out some way at some point in your career to do some politics you don't have to get out and run for the legislature every time the bell rings like the Dalmatian jumping on the fire truck and so forth you can you can wait you can do something else significant with your life before this is a theory that George H. W. Bush had and pretty much that I share do something consequential with your life and then if you want to go into politics go into politics but remember that it takes a lot of grunge work politics is crossing the T's and dotting the I's and a lot of it is just grunge work but that's what gives you the opportunity to practice policy and and I think it also reward gives you gives you a sense of of reward or accomplishment that you've been able to put something back into the system you put something back into the system not just by practicing policy or extra you know exercising coffee but by participating in politics we are the best country in the world notwithstanding what you read a lot about how terrible America is and so forth I tell people I flew all all over the world for four years and I and I had the opportunity to see how other countries and other people hold us in such high regard people know everybody wants to come to America nobody wants to leave America so I don't like to hear all of the negativism that we hear and and and the condemning of America that goes on we've got the finest country in the world and it's a country that every citizen ought to find a way to somehow give something back to it's a wonderful note on which to end Peter Baker Susan Glasser congratulations on the man who ran Washington a a remarkable account of of Secretary Baker's consequential life and Secretary Baker thank you for your remarkable service to our nation thank you Mark very much on behalf of our co-hosts the Baker Institute for Public Policy at Rice University and Baker bots thank you for joining us signed copies of the man who ran Washington are available for sale at lbjstore.com now offering curbside pickup for those local to Austin these programs are made possible by contributions from our members you can support us by joining friends of the lbj library at lbjfriends.org see you next time


This game looks like insanity. Soccer meets racing in this crazy game called Rocket League. Players are equipped with booster rigged vehicles that can be crashed into the ball and each other for incredible goals, passes, and saves in many different highly detailed arenas. If you enjoy team strategy, racing, and sports games, then this is definitely one that you might enjoy, as it includes all of those things plus explosions and craziness. A few features of Rocket League include all new season mode that allows players to enjoy a full single player experience. So if you're not feeling like you can beat your friends, then you have the option to play alone and just battle bots. Which still might be just as hard, so... If you are wanting to jump in and stomp your friends, then you can play the amazing two, three, and four player split screen mode that can be played locally or taken online against other split screen players. And you do get an amazing score on one of your friends. You can replay that sweet, sweet moment at broadcast quality, rubbing in their faces a little bit, and fast forward, rewind, or view the action from anywhere in the arena so they can feel the burn from every angle. Burn! I know a huge aspect of racing games that people really enjoy is the ability to customize your own cars. Well, in Rocket League, you have extensive battle car customizations with more than 10 billion possible combinations. That's a lot of possible combinations to make a unique car that is exactly what you want it to be. And let's talk about some of these arenas. I wish that when I had played soccer in high school that we had some of these crazy awesome arenas. I probably would have had to go to high school in Tron to get some of these, but that's okay with me. These arenas are vibrant and flashy and oh so detailed. I did read one review on the 6thaxis.com that was a little less than excited about the game. If you played its predecessor, supersonic, acrobatic, rocket-powered battlecars, it's a really long name, then Rocket League is a little subpar. However, if you have no idea what that game is, like me, then this is a great and exciting game to play, and I'm sure that Rocket League will knock your socks off. Since we're still talking about arenas, the review said that the roster of arenas in rotation are all very similar, as they are mostly identical in the shape and the size. So if you're someone who is really into that sort of thing and you can't appreciate just the changing designs, then that might be an issue. However, there is good news, as the article said that Cyonix has promised a sustained feed of downloadable content. Overall, steam reviews for this game are overly positive and I've seen a lot of Rocket League circulating in the YouTube world. So I'd say if this has grabbed your attention, then definitely give it a shot. It looks like a really cool and fun game that you and a couple friends could spend tons of hours just having a great time. Well, that is all for this episode talking about Rocket League. If you enjoyed this first impression, then please leave a like. And if you would like to see more of me, you can find me on my channel, Brits Games. All my links are in the description below. You can also leave me a comment if you'd like letting me know what game you would like for me to do a first impression on. Thank you guys for watching. I will see you next week. Goodbye.


My name is Zarejit, I work for Stregin Technologies as an architect and right now I am a filler. So, before I proceed with my talk, how many of you know about QZ.com? Hence quadsqzqz.com. Okay, it's loading. Just a quick thing about this particular website. Within its three months of launch, its page hits actually exceeded that of economic times. And that was a very big thing. I think it was in 2012 when it happened. And why was it? Because of its content, definitely yes. It has got very good content. And apart from that, it had a very unique kind of navigation system. I need the site to load to go further. Okay, so this particular site, do not use any pagers. Whenever you scroll down, still loading as taking up my time. Until it loads, it's based on jQuery, so JavaScript, so it will take time to load first. So whenever you scroll down, the URL changes. And instead of going on the next page, next article loads, the URL changes and it is taken as a hit by Google. So, okay, I'm really sorry, it's not working right now. Still loading. So actually, my flesh talk is about an open source project that we created. A few days back, my boss called me and showed me this particular site. He said, have you seen QZ.com? Like a lot many of us, I had no idea. So he said, see this QZ.com. It has got so many hits, blah, blah, blah. I was like, yes boss. He said, it's a fantastic thing. Yeah, that's right. I want this kind of a blog on my region site. Very good. Build it. And we were given two weeks to build this particular website in this format where the URL changes whenever you scroll in. It's kind of an unlimited scrolling. And me and my team have actually pulled it off in the last few days and that's what I wanted to showcase here. We have tried to make it open source kind of a front end framework where you can put in your URL for your RSS feed. And it will show you all your feed in this particular format. It's loading even faster than Quartz. Good news for us. This particular thing is working though it's still not loaded. This is basically built in AngularJS. And whenever you scroll, it will change the URL and will take as a hit in Google. You have got a navigation in the sidebar. Otherwise, how many articles you have, even it's 100, 150, 200. Without taking any performance hit, it will go on loading all your pages with changing the URL. It works both ways.  This will change and will take as a page hit. So it's just a different kind of navigation. It's totally a front end thingy. It doesn't depend how you put in the content. You're using WordPress, Drupal, or any other customized framework to pull in the content. We just need the API or probably the RSS feeds to feed in the data. Actually yesterday, just before the flash talks, we just tried to create a demo, put it up on GitHub, make it open source. Here's the page. There's very less documentation. We have worked on the inline documentation, but other documentation still lacks. Name of the project is Saris, and we like some contribution towards it. It has got a lot of bugs and some improvement tasks that we need to pin down. So we'd like you to just go through it once and see if you can help us in any way. I think that that was it. God says still loading, so probably you can use it on your own laptops and see how it works. I'm sorry. Thanks.


What was made crystal clear in the experiences we saw in my region, in places like Fire Island, New York, and Maniloc in New Jersey, is how technology transitions can pretty significantly impact consumers in ways that's not always evident of the outset. And there's been a lot of very strong feelings about this. And so I guess the first question would be simply is, do you agree that there are many instances in which a copper network must be maintained because IP services do not meet all the needs of consumers? And that's a really open question to the panel. Thank you. I would say that we need to maintain the protections of the networks that we have now as we're figuring out what the new technologies are and what opportunities we have to make sure that they're serving the same values as the existing network did. As you mentioned, after Hurricane Sandy in Fire Island and Maniloc in New Jersey, Verizon decided to replace its copper network with a fixed wireless service. And there was an outcry from everybody because people really cared and they realized that this service wasn't as good as what they had on the copper service. People had heart monitors, security systems, internet access that they lost because the fixed wireless service didn't offer it. And luckily the FCC and the state commission there in New York at least were able to step in and protect consumers and Verizon is now deploying fiber instead. But we still need to make sure that consumers know the differences between these technologies and are prepared for more outages.


Live Friday afternoon folks. It's hard to believe Friday's rolled around again. Ted Ralston here hosting our show where the drone leads on Think Tech Hawaii with one of our favorite and frequent flyer guest Mike Elliott of drone services. Oh, hey, thanks for coming on Thanks again, Ted really appreciate being on the show and really excited for the future of Hawaii and where this technology is leading That's a you've read down the script. That's perfect. That's great But there's cards here you can read all the cards hanging around a place and they're all good script cards Mike we're taking you away from your business. You should be out making money at this point You're giving your time to us here and appreciate that very much It's okay. This I mean an educational piece for the community. It's really big in helping not only individuals Folks at work in the government, but also businesses understand the technology and how it can benefit them I think that's pretty important. That's one of the things this show is all about is bringing information like what you've got to The public and to other people as agencies and such so they can get a glimpse once a week And what's taking place in the world of drone ism in fact since we've met last talked and met There's been a lot of change and let FAA rules come out recently the educational interpretation as such get videos to show here to the folks and We've also changed the format of the show. It's down to half an hour now Yeah, it used to be 45 minutes Oh, we have speed it up to speed it up back the whole thing in get our messaging in there And then read the card the cue cards on the way out and and stay on the script the whole time So Mike It's been what four or five months since you left your real job and took on a unreal job Yeah, and you know it was a bit of a leap for us You know, we realized where this industry was going, but it was a bit of a leap of faith you know to leave a good-paying job and then You know wonder how things we're gonna plan under how and when no one's been before Well true, and when we look at what's Going on here in Hawaii, you know, we we are one of the few if not only the only business It's doing kind of that full 360 we do sales. We do various services under our current three through three exemption And you know, we also are active in repairs We're active in STEM and other programs to help with educational aspects because we see educating a workforce is a Big component of our business also and so what you're actually doing is providing a full service anywhere from You provide the operation for somebody you provide the equipment for them you buy training and and and maintenance and such Anything associated with the world of commercial drone operations and that's for all this new change has come about right? You're earning under a three three three exemption Which was a loophole at the FAA allowed us all to operate under and now we'll be making a change again Into the dimension of the well, yeah, and that was the good thing that just a couple weeks ago after Being delayed for quite some time the FAA finally announcing their part 107 rule set So the biggest thing that people were waiting on or they knew about was that we wouldn't have to have a pilot's license Anymore to fly and then but at the same time there is also a licensing test for a drone operator that you have to take and we've been going through the 600 plus pages of Rules that were released there was a summary sheet that most people queued in on what was on the summary sheet But there's a lot of other things that are actually inside the document itself That are kind of the details as to how this is going to be executed including the thinking the FAA went through as it dealt with the 34,000 Comments that came in from the proposed rulemaking true and they had to deal with each one of those and then there's some residue with that Shows up in that 624 pages right of information narrative information five telephone books thick worth of close-packed type Explaining all of their reasoning and all their logic in terms of how the rules have come forth today So, you know kind of a quick summary though what would it really? Like said biggest thing is a pilot license requirement is removed and you can be a commercial operator But at the same time what you're doing is you're at operating in the national airspace and that's where They want you on par with manned aviation in the level of knowledge that you not a bad idea and we've seen one of the Practice exams that they've already released and it looks very much like a sport private private pilot type of Exam with some of the questions that are on there And we see that as being a bit of a challenge for some folks is being able to pass it The test is going to cost 150 bucks It's a hundred fifty bucks every time you fail and come back to so you get to try it again You ever run out of options? I don't think you run out But I you have a two-week period before you can come back and actually this is fine for the FAA might be to have a lot of Failures for this is a lot of money. Well, I think what's really important is that you know one of things that we've been looking at and working on for the past really three months or so With a certified flight instructor is developing a program that can act as a educational gateway to Prepare for this exam and have the resources and knowledge necessary to be able to pass the test pretty much the first time out a pretty close if you study You know afterwards, so we're going to make an announcement Monday For this course that we're going to be offering it's a part basically a part 107 prep course taught by a certified flight instructor And if I can interrupt for a moment, that's a key message having a certified flight instructor Present this that means someone who's in that business in this is a flight in flight instruction and training It's going to actually manage this program for you with this training program true, and we're actually going to get the the curriculum is going to go under just a Review kind of a quick check get a little bit of a blessing for hopefully from the local FISDO office here Just to say hey, it's all the stuff that's in here Here's how we've kind of merged the traditional flight training that's required and then some of the elements of the drone Operator license piece that we're looking at for the 107 that's going to be part of this overall exam but this this level of formal training and the need to take the training in order to Pass the test and get a certification really represents a change from the way We've been dealing with drones in the past under exemptions and under different forms of waivers and under model airplane rules is one thing but now there's a degree of of a professionalism coming into the game caused by this rule change and so people are going to be taking a step up in Competence in order to be part of this game and I suspect it's going to be deterrent to quite a few people who just don't have the mental Capital to go into it and spend that much time and deal with all the updates and such and they'll turn to you and have you to The operation for them in many cases rather than having them generate the qualifications. We've worked really hard You know my partners George Purdy my wife Ellen a lot of the guys that work with that we fly with have worked very hard to figure out Exactly how the FAA wants us to operate We've got koas the certificate of authority for Operations that are pending for various locations all throughout Hawaii We've got some that are already issued for certain locations to fly in or near various areas that normally are off limits for flight We're working on another that for out in the cloud right here as a matter of fact. Yeah, so the Pearl Harbor project This was just a wonderful opportunity for us Tim Gray World War two Foundation contacted us a few months back about shooting some drone aerials at Pearl Harbor and Being one to never say no. We said we'll figure this out and yes, we're gonna make this happen I used to work over there So I knew a lot of people and I knew how the process worked In being able to do some events over at Pearl Harbor, but the biggest thing was this was something that was new and it was the first time It took us about three months to get through the entire process with the FAA and The base getting permission to be able to do this and then we came over there with a team of six people To be able to shoot this we doubled up on the pilot We had an assistant for the pilot our camera operator an assistant in a backing everything up We had you know with visual observers You know just trying to do everything that we could to Demonstrate a like set a safe and professional event and always leaning towards safety and everything that we did So, you know, it was very much a pleasure to do it There's a promo piece on the World War two foundation dot org site for the film that's being narrated by Tom Selleck So that's coming soon. What I like about this video in particular is that it shows so many aspects of what the professional drone The commercial professional drone community is all about doing it, right?  So anybody any law enforcement guy or anybody who's got a question. What's going on? They just right there, right? It was something that we saw as a way to just one point is You know point us out and so people wouldn't maybe necessarily wouldn't You know if somebody came up there was there. Oh, okay. These guys are the ones that are supposed to be here It's just uh, you know, we're we also, you know, we have hard hats for some of the jobs we do We bring all our own gear But we wanted to show kind of how you got some of these shots and then kind of what it looks like You know from the ground and from the air and then for people to see this and kind of say, oh, wow Okay, I I get it. I see what this is all about So you see that aspect of it too, not only do you see how you actually operated and how you Indicated and expressed yourself anybody who might come up by the way you put your signage up and such You're also showing here the nature of the information that can be collected the quality of the video and the Smoothness of the video and the stability of the shot and such in fact shot framing is a big part of this So I mean a lot of times what you end up doing one of the great things about a drone Is you can immediately review footage You can go back and reset for a shot while you're in the air and you got plenty of battery and stuff Hey, you know, hey back out a little bit more. Let's you know, let's slow this down As opposed to 1500 bucks an hour for a very well at the low end for helicopter or something. Yeah So it makes it a lot of fun, uh, you know, but it does give you a lot of flexibility and like said does reduce cost So not only in the in this aspect of it, but um a lot of operations that you do Drones can put high tech sensing capability At low cost into people's hands in areas where they never thought of using it before Agriculture in your clients hands and if they don't want to actually get the capability and their and the and the certifications and licensing themselves Again, I just think that video is so useful because it shows the process of how you actually did it It shows the quality of the results that come back and it shows it all being done Transparently out in the open with all definitions and identifications present So anybody who has a need for that kind of new perspective on real estate on geography on on Topographical situations on reefs on whatever the place may be where a different perspective is going to generate new information Can get ahold of you and can do themselves through your help or can have you Take care of them. We uh, we've got a number of different projects going to we're helping Some local companies that are Realizing that the new rule sets coming into play trying to get a head start on some things there's a company who has a hyperspectral sensor that they want to mount to a drone and We're working with them to actually be able to fly it so they can actually collect data with their hyperspectral sensor that they've developed and Building out a platform that can power it and you know, how are they collecting the data? you know, what do they need from us so I mean we can best figure out how to Get this thing in the air and get them what they need. So it's it's a lot of fun You know, the challenges are always out there and the technology is You know just getting better and better every day to make this something that is more common place For benefiting. I mean society overall really in some of the data that you can collect and how rapidly You can turn this around and use it And when you say rapidly also in a lot of respects we're actually rapidly moving into this domain of commercial drone operations I mean this video you showed and the description you've had of the various other work you're doing Wouldn't have been possible a year ago a year ago We would just been filling out three three three exemptions trying to figure out what that's all about how What is the FAA want? How's this all going to work? How about the landowners? How about the privacy and all those other issues? Well, those are being solved one at a time and the this is turning from an art into a practice and uh, Mike I just want to Once again, congratulate you for having the courage to to lean forward that way and do it in the way you've been doing it Well, it's something else too for the other folks that may be out there I want to do this or are doing this and want to continue on this You know, I think it's it's up to us is if we want to be responsible Business individuals who are trying to promote this as a profession That we should go out of our way to operate professionally and follow the rules that are out there And you know that safety should always be the default in every action and operation that you do We've never lost a craft. We've never had a crash You know, we we haven't had any of those problems and in big part. It's because of the um The preparation that we do the practice that we do and then sometimes, you know, there's certain jobs It's like, you know, I can't fly there or I can't do that and just saying, you know, no There are other folks out there that will take on some of these Uh risk and uh, they've had problems and they've had issues and stuff. It just isn't worth it You know what goes to my mind we back in october I think it was or maybe september of last year We had a the first gathering of the professional drone association, so to speak Maybe it's time for that again, especially With this with 107 on the on the on the table these days and with the Status and the and the best practices that you've been able to establish Maybe it's time to host that I shouldn't say to you hosted again.  Yeah, let's uh But not just me. I think there's other folks out there too that are learning Um, you know through some of the actions and operations and their experiences that they're doing So I think it's uh, you know, kind of a Once like it was when we met a year It was kind of a community-based event as to hey, how do we do this and how do we move ahead? There's some other changes coming around too in that the university and the state Which we should sort of bring them all together and let's talk about that after this for our first break here Welcome to same tech highway dot com. This is johnson choy your host The topic is asian reveal We do it on month basis on thursday at 11 o'clock. We shoot a checker schedule See you Aloha join us at tedx honolulu 2016 is at the blaze dale july 9th From 10 to 5 the discount code is r a c h a e l underscore T. E. D. X. H. N. L. See you then Second half of our show where the drone leads, uh, ted ralsson here hosting us at uh, Think hack away and mike elliot once again from drone services. Hoey We got to put your phone number up there so people can get a hold of you. That's pretty easy 844 drone 50 If you have any questions not 808, right? It's 844 so it's 800 number. It's like an 800 number 844 drone 50 drone 50 estate something like that That's how you thought that up. Yeah, I can reach reach one of us You know, we'll try to answer as quickly as we can or get right back to you But we try to answer every call as soon as it comes in what we were talking about just before the break and during the break Is that certainly the perception i've got is that we had A lot of rough edges in the last year or so we had a lot of unknowns We had a lot of different ways that the fAA issues could be addressed and solved and worked and there's issues There was the emergence of the rapid growth of the of these free free free exemptions to generate some form of commercial Activity now we have the rule 107 coming out which is uh is actually here August 29th. I think it becomes law. Yeah, I've already I've already yeah We got folks signed up to take the exam as soon as it's available probably that day or the next day There's such a much transition here and it's all heading in a very uh Or it should head in a very professional direction with a community of practice and with best practices and this sort of Controlling social controlling mechanism in order to make it a success And and you're probably the lead in how that might all want to go forward So I think it's your responsibility Michael To collect the other people here in hawaii. They're involved and generate this try to help them and stuff We try to inform them You know, we're going to have some amount of rogue operators that aren't are going to just say i'm not going to do that I can do what I want who's who says you can tell me what to do Uh eventually they'll go by the wayside because what's going to happen is that just like any Any other profession out there and stuff, uh, you need a plumber. You need an electrician You're going to go to somebody who's a professional qualified trained certified The dealer for that particular, you know air conditioning unit. You need whatever it is. That's where you go You don't go to some guy who's got something scrawled on the side of his truck in spray paint You know say any fixes air conditioning. So we're talking about the state you have a well Yeah, you have a bit of a but it's an awareness piece. I mean people who are actually hiring you If they understand that there are folks out there operating by professional standard following the law And the rules and that uh, eventually the rogue operators will go by the wayside So maybe a maybe a product of this commercial drone association is is that at best practices that this community Obeys or at least is aware of uh here in Hawaii. Well, it could be or something I think what businesses need is some way to identify Who's legal and who's not and you know, what we do is we go out of our way to we share all that information With our potential clients as we give them Uh, here's a copy of our exemptions. Here's a copy of a certificate of insurance You know, whatever they need to make themselves feel confident comfortable And then we tell them what the requirements are under which we're allowed to fly We share that with them also so that we know that here are the requirements for things I can and cannot do So that they're well aware before we ever contract with them That's all part of the whole education process here as well because it is a very confusing world for people on the outside To understand are you a hobbyist? Are you in education? Are you under an exemption? Are you under a public aircraft ops corps or are you under FAR 107 five different ways that operations can occur They all look the same In fact, you probably could conceive a situation where the same person and the same equipment Is operating under one of any one of those five domains at any one time Right and the rules are different you can't sit there and swap hats halfway through or Or wear one to fool somebody for another and there's there's folks out there doing that now And what's going on now is that there are folks out there that have been saying This is kind of you know, um, oh, I'm only charging people for the photo and video processing I didn't charge them to take the photos with the drone or the video a loop as if that really matters Right, you're fooling anybody and the FAA said no you can't do that. There's others that out there that don't specifically Mention that they use drones and the stuff that they get And it's not in any of the paperwork that you sign with them But when you see any of the final product, it's in there and uh, some of those folks have flown in Inside of five miles of airports and it's well known to the local FAA who some of these people are You know, and it's you know, those are the ones that are ruining it for folks that are trying to operate properly Um, you know, we're in the process of finalizing a uh co-ed operate out Cali Loa Area on the airport there It takes time and there's a process and you know, you can do these things It's just you have to be willing to put forth the effort and understanding to do it properly Key word is time because you got a lot of setback time in terms of getting hold of the right person For example or understanding what the issues are that have to be covered Then you have to generate moas or someone or document that says we understand what we're doing and we have approval to do this Assemble it all together apply for a exemption or a a extension of a coa if you need to And under 107 you may have to apply for a waiver of some kind a lot of waiver functionality going on there So there's a three months is not an unreasonable setback. Is it for a complicated situation? We've got a we've got a pending contract. We've got some uh, as soon as we get back We're going to be doing night operations And yes, you can apply to do night operations and there's a way to do it to fly at night legally To take photographs for a particular project that we're going to be doing We're going to be working in some areas that normally drones don't fly Uh specifically for this project, but there's a way to do it There's a way to do it legally and properly It just takes time and to get everybody to sign off on it and say yes And then once that happens, it's just business as usual You don't want to like to do is uh over time here as you've been on this show so many times and brought Your expertise and knowledge and passion to the table here and let the people see about it There's a number of business aspects or business Segments that could benefit from that level of understanding and that level of confidence I'm thinking of the journalism folks at this point in time media and print journalism. In fact, this station is a I think we do print journalism here video journalism Um getting the journalism community to be fully aware of was available What's capable where the limits are what can't be done It could be something they could use on a regular basis I mean they they already have vans that are out running around capturing stories all around the islands anyway Um, you know, if you were able to train somebody properly to be able to use a drone and actually capture some additional aerial footage Uh, it just enhances the story And maybe better tells the story than somebody standing on the ground such as the pearl harbor video He just took us through and so and six weeks from now about that. This can all be done with under 107 And uh, so we ought to really get with the journalism people quickly and let them see that capability see that Understood show them the video. So I said, well, uh, you know, you don't have to take a training course or anything Uh, you know, but they're after seeing the tests and knowing what's involved And then knowing the level of knowledge of a lot of people that are looking to take this test Uh, yeah, there's a big delta there And so our thought process was when we figure out a way we can help people prep So they don't have to spend money 150 bucks a pop to take this test until they pass it And uh, you know, just better enhance them to operate too. So the the last piece of that class uh in in discussing this It was okay test prep But why don't we spend some time talking about how do we do commercial operations? And so we're going to spend a piece of that class Prepping them all the way through your best practices. Yeah, how does somebody somebody comes to you and they want to do a job Well, what do I do? And how do I prepare for that? And what do I need and what Websites should I use and how do I file a notam and how do I look to see if there's a temporary flight restriction? Or how do I read a vfr section which is going to obviously be part of the course anyway? But you know, you have to be able to talk in the same language that pilots talk National airspace operations and this is about the National airspace integration piece. So you have to be on the same, uh You know speaking the same language on the same playing field So that you are integrated into that process And that's that's one of the most important aspects of this transition as we go into the 107 because It's going to provide a A equivalence between manned aviation and unmanned aviation and they'll be dealing with the same issues and dealing with the same The same approach to the same issues. So as opposed to having a potential Harm or risk, it's going to be immediately rated and mitigated by virtue of everybody understanding The the proper procedures and operate them together. There'll still be the rogues So you still have some of the same things, you know about the the restrictions that you have over with regard to airports and You know, um, you know flying over, you know crowds some of that's got uh That's one of the things that kind of went away somewhat in there. So 500 foot rule Which is kind of nice too because it was pulled and this is what I know where it came from Pulled from helicopter. Yeah from movie stuff from heli and and people they'd acknowledged that said 500 feet That makes no sense But it was in there and so people latched on to it didn't require a change of law It was just imposing an existing law on the system And that's just something that was out there and you know, so that's kind of gone too And there's some wording in there with regard to that that's beneficial for the community also But it still comes down to safe operations planning things out shooting things properly, uh You know knowing your equipment preparing your equipment Maintaining it and then keeping a record log of that too since you're operating this, uh, you know And the f a could come and inspect your records at any time You know, what kind of maintenance have you done? Where's your logs of all your flights? You still have to report all this stuff on a monthly basis And that's something that we want to help people understand and prepare them for so that they Uh are compliant and don't have any of these problems in the future Let's make sure zuri that we get mike's contact information appear again on the screen one more time before we come to the end of this segment There we have one eight four four drone 50 drone services Hawaii and anyone that will take your Yeah, so we're our plan for this prep course. We're going to start here in oahu We're going to be doing some courses over on Maui And then we're going to do a little bit of a roadshow on kawai and the big island And then we'll kind of go from there and feel out the the demand but I know we have a lot of businesses that have already Come to us and said we're going to fill your class. Let us know when it's ready Because they want to get out there and start using drones on the job site. That's good We got to get to the uh again the journalism people and the other people who are involved in publicizing this so that we make sure that Uh the the fact that the rule changes has happened and what that means to people what that means to businesses who want to get into the operation or uh Police and fire agencies and such and then and department of health and red cross and folks who are involved in emergency management There's so much opportunity that's been created by this recent rule change And uh, you're the conduit to get between people who aren't there today And then there's uh, there's a bit of a learning curve, but once again, you know, we had uh, it was a guy from Hawaii, uh Honolulu fire department came by not about drawing picking up something at the store and was just talking and stuff and uh He was telling me how um, it'd be nice, you know, we could start to use these things at some point someday And you know, I explained to him.  It's on that truck when you pull up to a fire Uh, a car crash you're out looking for somebody you just think of it as a tool Then it's not that big a deal when you separate it out as something special or different Then that's the mystique that's that mystery that you've created and and that doesn't need to exist If you just think of it as a tool It's just one more thing you have available and that tool would be available to journalists or hospitals to red cross anybody else Who's even even the station here that we're sitting in and so this actually brings us to the end of our Very shortened span here, Mike And uh, good. I believe that we're here at the end already, but so much want to thank you for coming on Thanks again, Tedder. Yeah, because um, we need to tell your story a lot here We need to get this story out to people so they can become aware of what's available and follow the right procedures going forward so we really want to be uh The folks that you know trying to help some of the businesses here in Hawaii that have expressed interest over the months prior to the Rule change, you know, they just weren't sure where to go or what to do Uh now is really the opportunity So what you should start thinking about is you can buy equipment and start working on training individuals Prior to the exam coming out and kind of work to start to get a program in place So that when the rule change happens and you've got tests folks have taken the test You're ready to get to work To your homework time is now to start doing it and 844 drone 50 and you got it easy enough folks. We'll see you next Friday Thanks a lot, Mike. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Ted. Thank you very much