Welcome to the nonprofit show. We are so glad you're here, exciting week ahead of us because it is another nonprofit power week. We don't do this often, but when we do it, it is a wonderful opportunity to really see and hear from thought leaders in our sector. So really thrilled to have with us today, representative from your part-time controller. A representative will be with us each and every day this week. So today we have with us Harriet, or as we refer to as Hatsy, Kutchall joining us from your part-time controller. She's here to talk to us about why you need to know about NICRA. And if you're not sure what NICRA is, you're in the right place because she's gonna tell us that too. But before we dive deep in conversation with you, Hatsy, we of course want to let all of our viewers and listeners know if we have not had the opportunity to meet you yet, who we are. So hello to you, Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. And I'm Jarrett Ransom, your non-profit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group. Thrilled to be alongside you Julia, day in and day out with extreme gratitude that goes out to our amazing sponsors, partners that allow us this opportunity. So huge shout out of gratitude to our friends at Fundraising Academy with National University, Blumerang, your part-time controller. Again, who this week is dedicated to a non-profit Power Week. Also thank you to American Nonprofit Academy, non-profit thought leader, staffing boutique, non-profit nerd, as well as non-profit tech talk. If you haven't checked these companies out, as soon as we wrap up today's conversation, we encourage you to do so because each and every one of them are here to help you elevate your mission and to do more good. So they're here in your corner to help you. Just as all of our previous episodes are here to help you free of charge. Again, thanks for our sponsors. So go ahead and take out your smartphone, scan that QR if you are watching. You can grab the app right now. You can go ahead and download the app. And in just a few hours after our live conversation, right now with Hatsy, you will get a notification that the episode has been uploaded. If you find us on your streaming broadcast as well as podcast, we are still in those platforms as well. So we're simply growing and really excited to do that. You know, we are thrilled Hatsy because as Julia mentioned in our green room chatter, our relationship to you actually goes years back well before 2020, as we really talked about the expansion of YPTC. So for those of you watching and listening, we're thrilled you're here. More so thrilled to have Hatsy with us today as director of your part-time controller. Welcome to you. Thank you both. I'm thrilled to be here. It's fun to see you again. Yeah. Hatsy, you're one of those rare birds who, I feel like we could run towards you with our hair on fire, accounting questions or problems and you'd be like, it's okay. You can figure this out. And we need that when we work with experts, especially in accounting, people get freaked out. They're filled with so much fear and so much anxiety. And that's why we wanted to kick off this week talking about NICRA because this is one of those mysterious things for a lot of nonprofits and we need help with it. So when we were chatting in the green room, you made the comment that it sometimes even shocked you how many people in the nonprofit sector don't know anything about this. So what is it? Well, if you haven't ever worked with federal money, this acronym may never have crossed your desk or you've heard it. It is a uniquely, well, somewhat uniquely federal, U.S. federal concept. It's an acronym that stands for Negotiated Indirect Cost Rate Agreement and which relates to a process that the feds have created to help nonprofits document their indirect costs and how they get allocated. You know, Julia and Hattie, you were both talking about this in the green room and I didn't share then, but I was like, you know, this isn't an acronym that I'm familiar with. And so really hearing this, as you said, Hattie, you know, it really goes to that federal cost. And so hearing you just give us the baseline definition, the baseline understanding, I think is a great place to start. For those of you watching and listening, we actually just had a live question asked if we'd be giving the slides out. So all of this is actually broadcasted and you can find it again on our archive. So we don't send anything out separate, but you will have the entire conversation for your viewing and listening pleasure for yourself as well as many others. So Hattie, this is, is there a certain timeline in an organization's tenure? Like once they hit three years, once they hit five years, once they get federal funding, is that when NICRIS starts to really play a role? Yes and no. The process itself of going through the negotiation isn't required until or unless you are receiving federal money, but the concept behind it of knowing and understanding the indirect costs that are part of your organization's activity are crucially important to any organization. And the NICRA process is really just a matter of documenting what you should be doing already when you allocate your shared costs to your many programs to help understand which programs are covering their costs, which are not. And if they're not covering their costs, are there other resources to make up the difference? You know, it's such an interesting thing because it seems to me and Jared and I see this a lot that there are those folks that go out, they get the money, they apply for the grants, they hear about a program and they get all excited, they go out and do all this work. Oh yeah, and then they talk to finance and accounting. And I don't know if you see this as well, but where and why should we be engaging our finance and accounting departments kind of like at the beginning, if you will. It seems to me we should, maybe not. Well, we have seen many of our clients that have applied for and received, pardon me, federal funding and never thought to ask for indirect costs in their budget. So they may receive an award that only pays for salaries or only pays for travel. And yet there are other costs related to managing that award that the federal government later may not agree to pay. So that's why it's really important to involve the accounting folks from the beginning. You had mentioned to Hatsi, which I love that two of your colleagues had joined us previously to talk about federal grants and talking to the representative within the federal institution, the IRS, what does this look like? What about negotiation? Because if you said, we did not put anything by means of indirect costs into this, can we go back to them and ask if we can kind of, you know, shift some dollars around? We can, but more times than not they may, they're likely to say, I'm sorry, we can't change the budget now. It's always worth asking if you didn't think to ask up front, but we're working with many groups that had not done that and now know that in future renewals or future applications, they will at least ask for the option to have indirect costs. And in fact, we're working with a relatively new group now that got an award within their first year of existence. Wow. Yeah, yeah, they're remarkable. Their rate is still below what is called the de minimis indirect rate, which is 10% in the federal world, but they have deliberately, on our advice, they have deliberately negotiated to revisit their budget in the second year of the award that perhaps negotiate a higher rate if that's the case, if that's the way they're operating at the time. So let's back up a little bit because I hear you saying something that I never think about, two words, government and negotiation. And it doesn't seem to me like you can negotiate with the government. I love my government and I think it's an amazing thing that we have. So this is not like a beat down, but it just seems to me like if it's printed on, you know, government paper, it's set in stone, talk to us about this. How does this work? Every federal award comes with names and contact information of a program officer, sometimes a separate grants officer at the agency that's making the award. They're public servants. They want to hear from you if you have questions. If there's a lot of legalese in those documents, they can be hundreds of pages long. They're not gonna be surprised if you call them up and ask for help. And they would rather that you do that than make assumptions that may, you may find out later, we're not correct assumptions. They're there to negotiate or help you. I agree, Julia. I feel like it's written in black and white or it's been sent over in black and white. Like that is it, the end all be all. Hattie, who should be the one to negotiate? Is there a specific person that really has the authority, if you will, to ask that question? Really good question. When you submit an application for a negotiated indirect cost rate, it's usually the executive director or possibly the CFO who is signing that application. But they may well say, please talk to, in our case, this representative from YPTC or someone else who has been a key player in developing the application and can speak to the numbers. You as the organization can delegate that and then make them an authorized contact and then things go much more smoothly. But there's nothing that says that multiple people can't talk with the officer in charge as well. So, let me understand this, Hattie. Is this, and maybe it's both, is this like while you're making the application that you're stepping forward and asking these questions and trying to figure this out? Or is it after you've been awarded and then you go back in to try and figure out where NICRO works with you? You know, the NICRO knows. I always recommend, especially with a first-time application, that you reach out to the Cognizant Agency. Now, there's another nerdy term. I love it. I love my language. The Cognizant Agency is the agency with whom you will negotiate, with whom you're going to work to finalize this agreement. And it's defined as the agency that is providing the most direct funding to the organization. And I always like to reach out, especially if it's an agency with whom I've not worked before, I cannot and make sure I understand their approach to certain cost principles that are found in the uniform guidance. There's another nerdy term. And so it's really about developing a relationship with someone at the agency who is there to help you figure this out, as well as administer the rate agreement if questions come along once after it's in place. So then let's talk about this issue in terms of, I mean, our nation is incredibly diverse. If you're working in Los Angeles, the costs associated with your operations are gonna be different than if you're in Bozeman, Montana, or New Orleans, or Manhattan. Everything's different. And it's not always just more expensive, but sometimes it's just like you can't find this product or these resources that you need for your programming. How do we mitigate the different costs associated with working across our nation? Well, as we mentioned earlier, certainly rent in Manhattan will be higher than Des Moines or other parts of the country. And, but if that's the cost of doing business in your area and providing the service, federal government understands that. There are some limits put on rent sometimes because that can skew an indirect cost base, but more often than not, I've seen the feds accept rent, gravel, fringe rates, other significant pieces of an indirect cost pool. And as long as you can justify those costs and explain why they're important to carrying out your programs, they will support your interpretation of your indirect cost pool and the way you're distributing those costs. So this brings up a real question. And again, this just popped into my head. When you go to negotiate, do you come to the table with let's pick rent, because that's easy. Okay, here are three office spaces in my community. And these are what the rents are. I mean, here's a PDF of it, you know, government official.  And because otherwise it's a he said, she said, right?  Oh, sure. Now this, the application process is a very well documented explanation of what your costs are as well as how you attribute them to your various cost areas.  So that if you make an application to a non-federal thunder, you know to ask for how much you need. And if you're paying for rent for three facilities, then the calculations, there are a series of schedules that are common across all agencies. You illustrate how you attribute those costs to the various program areas and the agency may come back and raise questions, sometimes ask for more information, but as long as you're following the cost principles in the uniform guidance, there's usually not a problem as long as you can explain the way you're doing things. See, I have what I feel is a curveball question, but it's probably not for you. Is there like so many times that like a maximum amount that we can go and ask for a negotiation or is this common practice? We can do it with any contract or is it like, no, in our records, we saw that you've already reached your peak negotiation amount. You get one question. Yeah, that's a good question, yeah. Now, as long as you're receiving funding and have applied for a negotiated rate, in fact, you are required in most instances to finalize that rate each year. So they want you to come back. They will likely issue a provisional rate in advance of one fiscal year. And then part of the application process after you've already got the rate in place is to finalize that rate. And that's usually an annual exercise. If you've been doing it for 10 or 15 years and your rate fluctuates very little, sometimes some agencies will issue a four-year rate, but that can be risky if your operations change significantly or if a pandemic comes along and changes your operations significantly. But that'll never happen, of course. Right? Unfortunately, it's not planned on any of that. Well, this is, I mean, it's so important to hear this. Now, as I shared with our viewers and listeners, I was just in Nashville for a conference. The cost of gas, the cost of living, the cost of things were very different than in my local community of Phoenix, right? So really looking at that comparison, and so as Julia asked the question, aren't markets changed? And even within our own geographic market, that changes. And so I just think there's so much to be aware of. Another perhaps random question, but how involved is the board in these conversations? When it comes to financial transparency and it comes to the budgets and often you have a finance committee, are they involved in any of the conversations that maybe happen internally before we go to negotiate that micro? Sometimes when we are asked to help an organization, especially when they're doing their initial application, we ask them, why? Why do you want a negotiated rate? And there are good reasons and bad reasons for getting a rate. Good reasons are that you may have been accepting what's called the de minimis rate, which was never intended to cover the true costs for any organization. It was intended to essentially force most organizations to negotiate. But if you do that for a long period of time, it can start bleeding your unrestricted resources. And having a NICRA in place can also make it easier when you apply for other federal awards. But if the reason you're going after a negotiated rate is because someone on the board heard about it and thought it was a good idea, then it's worth exploring further. Because once you get a rate agreement, there is significant administrative burden to keep it up and you just need to be prepared, be sure you have the capacity. So we've talked about rent, but talk to us about what some of these items might look like in NICRA. I mean, is it like pages and pages and pages, a hundreds of things, or is it like 10 things? Like what is in the spectrum of NICRA? The application itself in the very beginning will be very lengthy because you're required to submit a copy of the federal award itself that requires it. And that could be four pages, it could be a hundred and four pages and could make for a very hefty document. But once you've negotiated for several years with an agency, I'm even working with some agencies now that say, skip the narrative, skip all this other nice stuff we used to ask for, just send me the numbers, just send me the math and explain why anything might have changed. Part of the numbers includes some variance analysis. Here's our cost pool this year, here's last year, why did it change, things like that. But it's, in that case, you're looking at schedules that are maybe six or eight pages worth instead of one. Interesting. Well, we don't have a lot of time left and it's been really interesting to even, to start our nonprofit Power Week with NICRA because it gives us a bunch of different things to think about. But I've got to ask you this question. First of all, for a lot of us, it's a shock and it's kind of like a hair and fire moment to think we can negotiate with the government and we can have a dialogue. But what's the reality of this in terms of a timeframe and the process? Cause it's not going to just happen overnight or maybe surprise me again, Hatsy, maybe it will. Seldum, no, I've never seen it happen overnight. The application process itself with diligence can be completed within a week or two. And that's involves some waiting around to find the right documents. But once you submit to an agency, I've seen turnaround in as little as one to two weeks, but I've also seen turnaround in 12 to 18 months. So it really varies significantly by agency. I'm not going to name names, but I think many agencies are overwhelmed because more and more funding funders are requiring the negotiations. So many agencies are still ripping up. Amazing. Well, my biggest takeaway is the same as your previous colleagues, which is literally pick up the phone, you know, have a conversation. Perhaps it's in an email, but start that conversation with the representatives so that when you want to consider negotiating this, right? Like you've had this rapport that's been built, which takes me to my question, Hatsy, looking at this, should we, like as soon as we get this contract, you know, should we really start to build relationships with as many representatives from the funder as possible in hopes, I guess, right? Of kind of like, you know, making everything easier for us down the road, what does that look like? And what do you advise? Because YPTC works with clients, organizations, all nonprofits across the nation. What does this process look like? As my other colleagues have said, yes, please, please reach out, ask those questions, whether they're financial questions or questions about the way you're running the program, they're there to help you. And I'm, you know, yeah, I'm a strong believer in public service, the federal employees, they're there to serve, that's the intention. So don't feel like, never feel like you're going to raise questions or red flags with an agency by asking questions. They want to help, they want to prevent you from making mistakes and they want to see their money spent in the best way possible. And they can help you do that. I feel like there's so much intimidation. You know, we hear that Julia around funders in general, but then you add the government to it. And I just feel like there's so much intimidation where it's like, we're just gonna, you know, stay away from any radar, we're going dot our I's and cross our T's, be silent, you know, and really not develop this relationship. But from what I've learned from you and your other colleagues is really, these relationships help. They really are significant. Oh, sure. Yeah. And that's true in any fundraising capacity, as you well know, all about relationships. It really is. And Hatsi, you are like really the key to the relationship that we have with YPTC because we met you so many years ago. And it's just amazing where this journey has taken us. And so it's really been amazing to have this time with you. Harriet Hatsi Ketchel, director of your part time controller. Hatsi has really been with the organization from the get go in so many ways, really helped to expand the national web of folks that work with YPTC. And it's really been an honor and a pleasure to see you grow and see this journey. Check out YPTC.com because this episode will actually probably go back up into their website and at some point in the near future. So for that person that asked the question, can we get to the slides? You can. So visit YPTC.com. There is an amazing amount of free information. It goes all the way through with what their teams are doing, how they're working, all different types of things that are coming up, trends, YPTC is doing a lot of really innovative things outside of what we think our accounting and finance teams do. And you're gonna learn more about that this week. We have a bunch of wonderful representatives that are gonna be coming on to talk about all things accounting and finance.   And they have lots of great information. So you can join us every day this week. And again, as Jared mentioned, if you miss this, you can certainly come back to us through our archives. We have a lot of really interesting discussions that sometimes I think that we'll have this week. You'll think, oh, that's not an accounting and finance topic, but it actually comes back to it, doesn't it, Jared? It does. And what I love is looking here at the faces, the names, we've got some new faces, some new names. The YPTC team always shows up and shows out because the knowledge, but the character, the personality, I mean, I even go back to the data visualization team. And I was thinking, oh, how fun is this gonna be? You know, kind of sarcastic, honestly. And it's one of my favorite conversations is really looking at all of the ways like this holistic approach that YPTC helps our community, helps our sector. It's just fascinating. So I'm very much looking forward to this week. Excited to have you, Hatsi, kick off the first of the five day nonprofit power weeks. So thank you. And my pleasure, thank you. It's been a lot of fun. Again, we are so blessed to have these conversations each and every day, moving up onto 900 episodes. And our partners join us day in and day out. And they include Fundraising Academy at National University, Bloomerang, of course, your part-time controller, Staffing Boutique, Nonprofit Thought Leader, American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Nerd, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us in these conversations and really help us plumb the depths of this important and vibrant sector that changes day in and day out according to the needs of our people. And so really fascinating to be able to align ourselves with these folks that help us navigate these tough times and tough issues. Hatsi, you really inspired me to talk to a government official today. Be not afraid. I'm like, be not afraid. Boy, that's wisdom of the ages, isn't it, Jim? Absolutely. I honestly wish that it seemed so simple, yet it is so significant. And if I had, I'm gonna say that permission, but really that confidence, 20 plus years ago when I started my career, I think that I would have served my organizations in a very different manner, and I just love that. And so when I started my career, I very much was part of the intimidation bandwagon, of like, no, no, no, let's just kind of, let's just stay quiet and stay in our lane. But I love this relationship. I love that public service and service, so absolutely significant. Well, thank you. I learned to do this myself by working with cognizant agents who taught me a lot over the years. Great, and you're passing it on, I love it. Absolutely. Well, hey everybody, we like to end every episode of the nonprofit show with a simple message, but it's really a profound message. And as we navigate nonprofit Power Week with your part-time controller, we want to remind everyone to stay well, so you can do well. We'll see you back here tomorrow, everyone.


The Paul Bunyan Playhouse kicked off the start of its season with its opening gala at the Northwest Minnesota Foundation. Guests were treated to a musical performance from the marvelous wonderettes. The gala connected the actors and crew with the community whose support is the reason why the Paul Bunyan Playhouse has been around for 67 years. The community has been very supportive, very engaging, and if they weren't then we probably would not be here. The Paul Bunyan Playhouse kicks off their season beginning next week. If you've enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax-deductible contribution to Lakeland Public Television.


Hello YouTube family and this one we're going to be speaking about why people hate you for no apparent reason because I know only to you and they play on this a lot but yes I know only to you there is a reason you could say there's more than one reason but it really all comes back to this now before I get into it please hit that thumbs up button down below to show your support very important as it helps the YouTube algorithm to get this message out there to other viewers and survivors who may need to see it also hit subscribe and click all notifications to be notified when I upload a new video or when I go live in the future I'd also don't forget you can book a one-on-one coaching session with me just go to my website it is narkseviver.co.uk now let's get into this message people hate you for this reason they hate you because and they're not they don't even really know you they don't know who you actually are all they're seeing is your image what's on the outside what's on the surface that's what they're viewing and they're seeing things about you these qualities these abilities these things that you have sometimes it may also be your possessions could be your house a car it could be your clothes it could be a friend a relationship partner someone that you know it could be a person but what it comes down to is this you have something and they're looking at you and they want it they want to take it they want it for themselves because they come around you they're witnessing you and they can see that you've got it you've got this thing that they want as I said that could be a quality and ability a characteristic trait a skill it could be a possession something material a house a car a person relationship partner friend it could be your job it could be your business but you've got something and it could be a number of things it could be that you are the full package it could be your physical appearance maybe you're particularly attractive you look good you go to the gym you work out you take good care of yourself maybe you get your eyebrows waxed or threaded like it manicures pedicures you like going to the store buying new clothes you take good care of your skin your hair so it could be that you could be the full package and you take care of yourself to such a degree on such a level but it's very difficult for anyone to compete with it's very difficult for anyone to do what you do and especially when they see the finished products I mean that's really overwhelming for them they see the years of hard work that you put in and then you show up they went to set you're before them and it's like you got it all you look good you take good care of yourself got a nice house a nice car you're intelligent you've got the experience the knowledge the wisdom and they're looking at that and it's like how can I ever measure up to that is what they're thinking how can I even achieve a fraction of that level and in that moment it kind of hits them where it's like pretty much what goes on in their mind is I can't I can't ever be that I can't ever amount to that and that's really the process that goes on in their minds and that is the reason why they hate you so it's pretty much a lack of belief in themselves a lack of hope maybe a lack of help and support as well even though you may have done it on your own so essentially they feel inadequate they feel like they're not good enough to become that amount to something on their own in their lives and yeah they look at you and it's just very overwhelming for them they feel like they could never amount to that they could never be on your level and they don't look at how for so many years you may have put in the work to become that it may have taken a lot of time a lot of your effort your energy and for them because they are very arrogant and entitled it's like they look at what you got and it's just I want that now never mind they haven't done the work they haven't earned it they just see it and they want it yes they want to be you they literally want to be you they want your energy your drive your passion your enthusiasm your qualities your abilities your hard work they just went out all for themselves but actually those who are highly narcissistic they're just looking at the finished product they're not thinking about the qualities the abilities the hard work the dedication that it took for you to get there they're not thinking about that at all they're just looking at what's on the surface and that's what they want and that's why they will often try to mimic it or even steal it from you but they don't recognise the hard work that went into creating it so even if they do try to rob it from you in many ways they're just putting themselves at a disadvantage because all they've got is something superficial something that's on the surface they haven't got the foundation the structure that it took to build it so essentially what they then have is like a house of cards that could collapse at any moment it could quite easily fall apart but yeah they act this way because of the lack of belief in themselves they don't believe that they could ever achieve it and I could talk about this from experience well not that but I can talk about my experience where I remember many years ago and I've always been this way my entire life I'd look at people who are who I deemed to be greater superior to me because they've done the work to get there to be the person that they are and it was never like I wanted to be another person I never felt that way at all I mean of course as you probably experience yourself have come across people where it's like they wish I would be anyone other than myself they wish I would be that but when I come around people it's like who are greater why do you do greater than me superior they've worked hard and maybe they got things that I want to on some level things that may be similar to what I want and this could be something where it's like it could be if they've got a nice house a nice car maybe they go to the gym they work out they got a nice body other than I'm thinking I want to be fit I want to be strong you know as anyone thinks that's completely normal to admire qualities and other people whatever the qualities may be or even their possessions and that's actually very healthy it's a good thing to admire respect these things but I was never looking at someone like okay I want to be you I want your life I was never look at anything like that but in fact how it was for me is that as I mentioned yes I have there was a time when I would look at other people's qualities possessions and I'd be thinking I wish I could achieve something that I want I wish I could achieve that level of intelligence wisdom but hard work I wish I could develop those qualities I wish I could have a nice home for myself I wish I could have a nice car but for me it's different because I always had the belief in myself from the very beginning from day one I mean literally my entire life I always knew I could do anything I could be anything I could have whatever I want I always knew this at the core level even though of course yes many times many people try to beat it out with me they try to beat it down but they never managed to succeed and I've always been this type of person where it's like I can do anything and I can accomplish anything if someone else can do it I can do it too I've always had that mindset and for that reason I guess that's why I've never really looked at people and hated them I've never really envied them it's never been like alright you know how narcissistic people are thinking whereas like they want to be you and they want to take your life and you'll know when you're dealing with these types of people because they're always trying to force things on to you it's like they could achieve something it could be real or it could be imagined it could just be in their heads I mean most of the time it is if you've dealt with narcissists you know what I'm talking about it's this grandiosity but then when you get away from them and then you look back it's like what is it that you've actually got what is it that you've actually achieved you haven't even done anything in your life it's just in their heads and you kind of share this illusion when you're around them they're very good at brainwashing people because that's how they survive they can't actually do anything else but yeah that's typically what they do and they always want to force things on to you I've noticed that so much in my past like I was working a job before I remember I would come across so many weirdos in this job like one thing that really sticks out to me I remember there was this elderly couple in a home where we went to install a TV and I mean they're the nice home it wasn't anything special it was to me it just seemed like an average home but when I went in there we went to install this TV and they were really weird they were just acting strange towards me it's like they were insecure about the TV we installed there and I wasn't even thinking anything of it I didn't think about that big but then the woman there she came to me and she was like talking about her son's TV I'd say how big that is and she was like oh yeah my son's got this TV it's this big and I was just I was kind of shocked I can't say that I was envious or anything it was more confusion because in my mind I was thinking God if you knew you know even though I'm working this job at the end of the job I go back to my home with my father which where I live is lived at the time it's a five bedroom mansion with four floors a multi million pound home with about I didn't even know 10 15 TVs brand new TVs some of them are 80 hundred inch which we change every few years so for me it was just kind of confusion but I think she took it as though you know she had one in that moment maybe not even knowing about anything about me I was just kind of used as a tool and object and that's what these narcissists do a lot they want to like force these things on to you as though yes this is what you want you want this and in your mind you might be thinking you know it's just so obnoxious it's just so out there and they get a confused they mistake it because they're forcing it on to you and you just went out of your face but then they're taking that revulsion that disgust so no oh you're envious you do want this and really it's just like no you just don't want it being forced down your throat all the time but they never actually make that connection and of course narcissists they live in this delusion so I thought I'd share that story maybe that could be helpful for some of you I mean that's just one of so many experiences that I've had but that was a good one for possessions you know with the TV and it's just funny how they like make these outlandish assumptions where it's like you know what a TV a large TV I was like 22 at the time what's a 22 year old going to do with a TV most 22 year olds having got their own home I mean this is just it just sounds ridiculous but this is exactly how these people think because they have these fantasies in their heads where it's like they kind of it's kind of like you have to want this to make them feel secure to make them feel like they're worthy they deserve to be on this earth because they're very insecure about that and everything's just always about them because they're that insecure it's like they just can't rest unless you're constantly attending to them but yeah this is why a lot of people will hate you for this reason got a little cat coming towards me looks like they're gonna hold yeah they hate you for this reason I mean they're literally looking at you like it took me such a long time to realize this and to accept it because I've never thought this way myself I mean as I said when I see people who I deemed to be greater than me it was never like I'll never be that great I'll never achieve that for me it's more yes I believe that I can it doesn't mean that I look at billionaires I think oh yeah I can be a billionaire if anything I'm not that narcissistic to even want to be a billionaire and I don't need to get to that point to then realize that that's not gonna make me happy because of course I already know that I understand it I've achieved enough things in my life and realize that those things didn't bring me happiness to then know that the next thing isn't gonna bring me happiness either and that's just how it goes just keeps going on and on you achieve more more things but we got to stop basing our happiness outside of ourselves that's what a lot of hateful people do they're looking at it like if I just had this quality is possession that you have I mean you look pretty happy yes finally then I could be happy too that's literally how they think and it never works that way other than they engage in unlawful activities they cheat they lie they steal just to get that only to realize that they're still miserable and if anything now they're even more miserable than before they did that because they just did something very wrong which caused a lot of shame which now they can't get rid of so that's typically how it goes for them I mean they're literally looking at us like you've got it and I want it that's how they're seeing us that is literally the the process that's what they're thinking it's kind of like a reptilian brain I mean not kind of like that's what it is they're like reptiles they just they see something shiny something that looks good but it's all surface level it's superficial they're not thinking about anything of meaning substance the hard work that it took for you to become who you are they're not thinking about any of that or they're thinking about is it looks good and it could elicit attention admiration validation from other people to where they may then stroke their ego and make them feel good about themselves that's how they're thinking and of course those of us who are more mature more responsible we're not thinking that way I was never thinking that way when I had all the nice cars dinner nice hotels traveling the world I wasn't thinking oh yeah now I can go around bragging about this now everyone's gonna be envious everyone's gonna be jealous of me I'm gonna make them all feel like garbage because I'm the man I was never thinking that way never I was looking at it from a more mature and responsible way and if anything those things after I worked hard it was more just to provide me with a sense of freedom and comfort that's all that really was and also I would say you know when you achieve a certain level of success yeah in some ways you should hope that it does attract the right kind of people to you other professional people other people who have worked hard unfortunately a lot of times it doesn't it attracts narcissists it attracts people who hate you and they'll pretend to be nice they'll pretend to be your friends secretly that it's want to destroy you they want to take away everything you've got because they're jealous they're envious because it's you and not them and they wish it was them they wish they could be you they wish they could have what you have they just want your life and it took me a long time to get to this realization because I never thought this way even though I don't think this way but you know just understand it from their perspective from how these hateful and envious people see it this lack of belief that they have in themselves where it's like you have something they don't have it they want to take it from you because they feel like they can't build it on their own but for me I always felt like I can do it on my own like I can do anything on my own but actually I can do better on my own rather than being around other people for me it was more the opposite I felt like other people are just holding me back from becoming the incredible person that I can be which most of the time that's how it was I've asked what I've advised before for a lot of you when you're around dysfunctional families friends the toxic that is holding you down holding you back just get away from them and then watch how you grow watch how you become successful but you can't do that around them because they're not successful because they have no belief in themselves and they do not want to see you succeed just so then they can reflect on how they fail to do that in their lives that's why they were to hold you down they were to hold you back because they know it's never going to be like that for them they know that no matter what they do they're never going to develop those qualities those abilities and that's why they typically just set up for trying to steal your life your possessions they settle for trying to steal all of that because they know that they're never going to be able to achieve that on their own that's why I've got a good move again now wherever I go a lot of people follow me well you look there's a nice sunset here but not quite sunset yet but oh there's cats following me but I don't mind these cats are welcome to follow me around hopefully it will help to protect my energy but yeah this is why people hate you they hate you because they can't be you they feel like they got a bad deal in life that's literally how they feel they look at themselves they look at their lives they look at what they've done what they've achieved and they reflect on their lack of belief in themselves of what they how they feel that they can't achieve anything so they look at themselves in their lives and they compare it to other people they're constantly on social media look at everyone else's life and they just feel like they can never measure up they can never be good enough a lot of them are depressed they feel like they're never going to be anything so then they look to celebrities could be people in movies their friends whoever it may be and then they're like alright let me take on this person's identity but then they see someone else so then someone else and then they take bits and pieces of all these different people to concoct this false character and that's how they then lose all of their power their energy which can no longer be generated from within because they've externalized it and they pretty much sold their souls so now it's all just about taking from other people that's really the only thing that they can do about point that's where they become so envious because it all started from a lack belief lack of belief in themselves that's what got them to that point and when you get around them it will make you sick what you're aware of it you can feel it you can sense it you can tell it's like yes this person wants something from me this person wants my attention my energy potentially my resources as well I don't know sometimes I've been there you may feel guilty you may feel like you could help them to become the person they want to be I've tried to do that I try to start a business for someone before you can't do that though all that's going to happen is they will pull you down to their level because they'll still have this lack of belief in themselves all that's happened is they've external externalized this I've made it so that it's like okay I can believe in myself with you here as long as you give me your energy your attention now I feel like I can do it but then at the same time they kind of have to push you down because then they start to see it as a competition they begin to view you as a threat this cat's feeling quite comfortable you with my bag it looks like it's got a little moustache I used to have a moustache as well last year more cats joining welcome to the clan this is the NARC survivor group for cats I don't know by these guys over here come on you're either with us or you're against us but seriously though this is it this is where they you this is where they can't stand you and it's so obvious you're going to know when people hate you because it's like they're always undermining you they devaluing you they're talking down on you and notice this as well they always minimize your success and accomplishments your hard work while exaggerating their own that's so you know that they're insecure about it because a person who is secure they can appreciate it they can value it in another person I mean as long as you're not one of those people who just force it down people's throats so they constantly bragging and boasting and it's like you know just shut up just go away I've got other things to do other things to think about maybe I want to think about my own work my own accomplishments rather than just everything revolving around you so that could be a case as well as long as you're not doing that then you know people can hate you for that reason as well if you're always there and you just won't leave them alone you won't go away I mean that'll make anyone hate you and yeah no situations you may feel like you dislike yourself but really it's just because they're around you and they won't leave you alone that's really what the problem is there but with these types of people people who hate you I mean you're just minding your own business you're probably that type of person who likes to keep to themselves you don't like to be around too many people as I said in past videos you like being on your own you like your own time you're not bothering anyone you're not interfering you're not disturbing them and it's like people are coming to you they're after you of course you must think at some point it's like if you hate me then why do you want to be around me why do you want to be in a relationship with me why do you want to be my friends why do you want anything to do with me and of course it's not even that they really hate you it's more they hate themselves they hate their lack of belief and ability the lack of belief in themselves and their lack of ability that's what they hate that's what they can't stand and they're reminded of that when they're around you but then at the same time they want to be around you because they're released they're a parasite a bottom feeder and you've got what they want they're hoping that by getting around you your qualities may rub off on them or if they're highly narcissistic they may not even be thinking about that at all and it could just be what surface level or rather even if they are highly narcissistic they are still thinking about that because if you look at cannibals they will often consume their victims they will eat them because they want them to become a part of them they see them as strong independent confident whatever it may be whatever qualities they have and also even prisoners of war they were once consumed once they were captured in the hopes that they were consuming their qualities their courage their strength and that's a big part of it so I know a lot of you empaths chosen ones you have that courage you have that strength and they don't have that quite clearly you can tell from their behavior they can't leave you alone the row is after you they want what you've got they can't create it on their own if you enjoyed this video so far please hit the thumbs up button down below to show your support thank you together NBS the jealous they just do not want you to be you they do not want to his support and encourage you what you're trying to do on your journey they do not want to support or encourage that because they already see you as being far superior to them you're far greater so they want to keep you down they want to discourage you they want you lead to lead you to a different path that's more negative degenerate where it just takes value away from you rather than add in value to you they're trying to lead you down that road rather than leading you somewhere that could be beneficial for you but of course many of them probably can't even do that anyway even if they tried because you got to look at it like if they could do that they would probably go off and do that instead of coming after you and trying to bring you down I mean you got to look at it like this if you knew alright I've got this amount of time this amount of energy effort resources if you knew that investing that in yourself would bring you more of a return rather than spending that hate it on someone else and trying to bring them down then you'd probably be doing that you would be investing that time effort and energy into yourself just as many of us are doing right now to learn more about this so that we can protect ourselves she never know where you might run into another one as well but as for narcissists it's all just all about constant hate to bring in people down coming after us never leaving us alone because they see it as though their time is better spent doing that to create the solution as though they are greater than you and that really gives the ultimate delusion that is insane to think that if you keep someone else down that makes you better than them and though it does not if anything to any real person anyone who is conscious and aware they will realize that no that makes you the fool because all you're doing is lying to yourself by keeping that person down by elevating yourself at their expense because if you've got the belief the confidence in yourself you've got the ability you've got the energy to actually make something happen for real but why don't you just go out and do that why don't you just make that happen for yourself instead of investing that time effort and energy into bringing someone else down I mean that just tells you all you need to know the fact that they think that by being around you by keeping you down by just by being in your presence they recognize that that's more beneficial for them that's more profitable than them going off on their own and trying to make something happen by themselves which reveals to you I mean unless they come out around you trying to build trying to cooperate that's different of course those are the people that you want to keep around you and I would hope that yes we could find people like that it's like we can do more together than we can do alone I mean that's great if we can but these types of people they're looking at it like they can do better getting around you cheating you deceiving you hated on you than going off on their own and doing something by themselves so this is why they hate you they hate you because they can't be you because they can't have what you have they can't have your life they can't live in the way that you live they can't experience life in the way that you do that's another thing as well that I forgot to mention and I've experienced this myself where I have come across people earlier on in my life where I looked at it and I was like why are you coming after me why are you stalking me why are you harassing me when you're quite clearly more developed more successful than I am maybe even more capable as well and what I realized is it can appear that way sometimes and they may be in some areas some aspects of life but then in others they're not and they're envious or jealous of you for that and not only that but some people it's just that you could experience happiness joy even with the little things in life and they can't so they could have it all but then they're still envious and jealous of you and your happiness and fulfillment because while they may have everything they're still not happy they're still not good maybe they still want more or maybe and this is the case with a lot of people today they cheated their way to get there they manipulated people so it's always on their conscience they feel a lot of shame they sold their souls and now they can't be happy with anything and sadly it's extremely rare that you will find someone who is successful and didn't sell their soul someone who is actually happy with their success and with the things that they have that's a very rare thing these days I've got all of these cats around me this is definitely an enjoyable moment surrounded by a group of cats few things that I like more because they're just very peaceful they're just good company to be around whereas these types of hateful people that are so is constantly nagging begging they're just so desperate they always want something or they just can't ever leave you alone they're constantly pestering you they're always in your ear they're always over their over your shoulder suffocating you and before you may not have been conscious or aware of it you may have felt a lot of shame that they were deflecting onto you they may have felt like there's something wrong with you it's like you can't make that connection that this person is actually not leaving you alone because there's something wrong with them that they're desperate they need something from you something that you have that they do not possess and if you're like me because I have spent many years get to know myself and I know that I do possess certain qualities as you may notice in my videos such as my confidence my humility my persistence my resilience I'm the type of person where it's like there could be a million people against me and I would still not give up I would not cave in I would not feel like I'm wrong unless I am actually wrong then of course I would accept it and I would try to learn from it but I know I know what's right and what's wrong I mean of course I do I'm not survivor be making these videos five and a half years so yeah I have that confidence and I have that confidence before as well I confidence that belief in myself that's what got me this far so you may have that as well you trust yourself that's why they failed to gas like you you always managed to hold on to the reality no matter what they say no matter what they do to you they can't take that away from you and not only that but you are pure you're uncontaminated because when you see abuse when you see things that are toxic unlike other people who are going towards it they love the drama the gossip the chaos you're going the opposite way you don't want to get involved so you remain pure and uncontaminated remember these are all qualities that narcissists do not possess that's where they come out around you because they want that they're hoping that maybe that will rub off on them not because they actually value and appreciate it because they're thinking okay maybe I can use this to manipulate people to deceive them the hide behind it this mask so they're seeing these qualities you possess and they're wanting that for themselves but it's no good in their hands anyway anything that they have it just turns to shit it really does I mean I've noticed I'm in a 35 years old in my experience from everything that I've worked towards and achieved pretty much anything that I touch it turns the gold I give it life and I'm sure that's why so many narcissists come around me because I have that life but these types of people anything they touch it turns the shit it just falls apart and really anything anything that they get involved in they just shut it they turn it into something bad and I'm sure you can all relate to this you know exactly what I'm talking about whether it's like it could be a movie you're watching and then they they have to resonate with a character and it's like they see themselves as that they internalize it or it could be a song a celebrity you admire it could be even when they try and steal your identity they're trying to make it their own and then you want to become something else then be it around them they can make you hate yourself that's so bad that is just anything they touch anything they get involved in anything they participate in it turns the shit they ruin it and it will disgust you it will provoke revulsion it will make you sick just because they're involved in it and it makes you sick because you know they're not about growth they're not about development they're not about anything positive they just want to bring things down and use it for their own narcissistic tendencies to where it's all about them so it's destructive anything they get around it dies falls apart but this is it this is why they hate you because you're you you're this amazing wonderful person who did the work to become the person that you are today to where you are confident powerful strong your everything that you wanted to be and they get around you and they want some of that but it's not something where it's like they want to participate in it and they can help you build up you grow I mean you got to think about like this they know that are good enough they're inadequate they lack belief to create anything in their own lives for themselves so you really think we're gonna get around you and think oh yeah I can co-create I can help to build something with this person they're not gonna be thinking that way they're gonna get around you and think this looks good I want this for myself I want to take it that's how they're gonna be thinking because they lack the belief in themselves this is why it can be very dangerous to get around people who are insecure I mean not always there are times where you can help them I mean many of you you are confident it's just your in you they talk to your insecurities they made you feel insecure but that's not really who you are they impose the full counter on to you as soon as you get away from them you will start feeling better about yourself but yeah if any of you are feeling insecure then you're a good example of people who we can get around and improve and make better and that's why I do the work that I do but there are also a lot of insecure people out there a good example would be vulnerable narcissist covert narcissist they lack belief in themselves they're very insecure and they get around you and they don't really believe they can build you up they can co-create they can build anything with you they're not thinking that way they're just looking at what you've got and they want to take it they went up for themselves because they know they could never build they can ever create that for themselves they know that's never gonna be a reality for them that's why they look at you like a snack like a meal ticket like you can pretty much just put them in a very unnatural situation for themselves which they would never achieve without you without you they would never have that they would never get there there would never be anything but even after they leave you they don't amount to anything anyway they just go back down they go back to where they belong they go back to who they are but yeah this is why they hate you because you have these qualities his possessions maybe luck his qualities his virtues you have all of these things that they see in you and they don't have and they know that they're never gonna have they're never going to achieve so that's why because they lack belief in themselves they lack the confidence that's the process that goes on in their minds whereas with us when we respect and admire someone who they seem to be great seem to be greater than us it's like we still believe in ourselves we believe we can achieve more that we can achieve what they have for ourselves so we don't need to hate we don't need to envy them because we know we can do that on our own they don't think that way that's why they hate you that's why they can't stand you that's why they're envious of you that's where they're dangerous and that's why you need to stay far away from them because just being around them things are going to go down for you things are going to get worse and I've said this in a video before you need to be very careful with the company that you keep because you never know what type of people you may be dealing with they may act like they're your friend they're there to support you to help you but a lot of people know they're not they're just there to let you off you to take something from you you've got something and they want it but they never really gonna get it they're never gonna get your qualities they're never gonna get everything that makes you who you are they're never gonna be who you who you are it's never gonna be like that for them so don't worry about it they can't get what you have inside they can't take your soul they can't steal that from you even though yes many of them they wish that they could but you're always gonna have that you're always going to be you at your core you're always gonna be you you're gonna have you're always gonna have your qualities your virtues your characteristics the things that matter the things that means something to you are they not they're just gonna be the shapeshifters the chameleons that they are but they're little farce character while they steal bits and pieces from other people so that they can feel desirable and attractive powerful important whatever it may be and that's all that they're ever gonna be well for you you're always gonna be you that's why they hate all right so I hope you found this video helpful if you did you can give it a thumbs up down below to show your support very important as it does help the youth algorithm to get this message out there so that it can help other viewers and other survivors like yourself so yes very important please hit that thumbs up button down below and let me know your thoughts in the comment section let me know what you think about what I said let me know if you agree with it or not let me know why you think they hate you I'd love to hear from you I read your comment every day hit subscribe because notifications to be notified when I upload a new video or when I go live in the future and if you would like to donate you can leave a switch at the live chat a super thanks in the comment section or you can go to my PayPal it is paypal.me and also don't forget you can follow me on Instagram it's Nox by the YouTube you can see my pictures and videos of my travels which I upload to my stories every day on there thank you all for watching thank you for joining me on another live video love you all appreciate your support and I look forward to speaking with you in another live video very soon


I'm going to have a presentation on user experience and first of all, there are two things involved in user experience. It's usability and user experience. And there may be tests basically on everything. So on hardware, software, on every kind of product that you have. And in contrary to the standard examples in literature, I have decided to use my unicorn as a demonstration object. So I'm going to explain how this basically works on the unicorn. And then we will have some more details on software and other stuff. Usability and user experience are very important if you want to create a very good product. So one only works with the other. And this is why we're going to talk about it. But first of all, a little bit about myself. So my name is Hevi. I'm attending Keras events since the 26C3. I study computer science and I have some certifications on user experience and scrum. So I know a little bit of the stuff I'm talking about. I also do some of these things at my work. So first of all, we've talked about the player. But now let's talk about the rule of this game. There is one basic rule which you have to follow when it comes to user experience. And this is there is no such thing as a layer 8 issue when it comes to user experience and usability. This is a really important rule. So whenever you find that the user is not doing what you expected him to do, it's not an issue of the user, but it's an issue of the product, software, or whatever you are doing. This is really important to understand because only if you really follow this rule, you will be able to create a good user experience. And here the unicorn is asking, well, does it mean it's all the fault of the unicorn? In this case, obviously it is. So usability. For a trivial UX, we have to answer six questions to win our game. And we will go through these questions one by one in order to win the game. So first of all, there is one important question. Who is your user? The more precise you are about your user, the better will be your product because you can develop the product exactly for the user which you have in mind. You can create specific user profiles and you can check against these profiles later on. So is your user a child? Is your user the parent? Or is it just somebody who doesn't like to be in pictures? Discretion is really important. So for this case, I will use the person who doesn't like to be in pictures. And now let's think a little bit about the user. Might this user be interested in? Do you have any ideas? If not, I will tell what I have in mind. So a few things which I thought about is, for example, a person which travels a lot is interested in various things, architecture, sites, flowers, food, whatever. And somebody who wants to share these impressions. So the next point if we know a little bit about our user is, when is our user going to use the product? So in our case, there could be several things. For example, emotion capturing, a travel diary, sleeping aid could also be a possible use case, a debug unicorn or a travel companion. So there are several situations in which you can use a product. The more you know about those situations, the better you can adjust your product to these situations. Because how do you want to know what a user is going to do with a product if you don't know when he's going to use it? So next thing, we know the user, we know when he's going to use it. Now let's talk about some of the requirements. Do you have any idea what this user might have as a requirement? Anything? Anyone? Any idea? I've noted some of these things. So for example, the user does not want to carry the unicorn all the time while it is on the road trip. Maybe it needs a password because it travels a lot of cities or countries. It should be visible on a picture. So if you want to take a picture of a unicorn and your impressions during your road trip, it should be visible. In that case, our user also would like to collect events souvenirs and wants to show them to other people. And one important thing, if the unicorn is supposed to guide you for a long time or be with you for a long time, it should be washable. And you might think of the situations when this picture is going to be taken. If it is very windy, you don't want the unicorn to be blown away. Otherwise, you wouldn't have a unicorn anymore. And of course, to get somewhere, you need to transport it. But that's very unspecific requirements. So you need to translate those requirements into actual requirements that a product has. So if we think about user input, the user asks, for example, about sizes because they need to transport it and it has some impact on the size. But it should also be visible in the picture.  They will just tell you, well, it should not be too big. It should not be too small. Now you need to figure out what does the user want to tell you and make it more specific. Afterwards, you can test against the initial input that you received and also against those requirements. The next thing which we had on the slide before is the need to transport it. Well, if you don't have very flexible material, it will be hard to stuff it somewhere. So that might be one requirement coming out of this. And if it should not be blown away or fall off all the time, then it might be that you need a certain rate. And if you want it to carry events, so we need a place to touch them somewhere. So all that are requirements and then must be translated into specific requirements. And even if you have requirements which seem to be specific in a first place, like it should be washable, you still need to think about is this really what the user meant when he gave you this input and feedback. What this user might actually want to tell you is that it should be machine washable. So you need to understand what the user really said. And then we can try to test against this. The last point which we had on the slide before was the requirement that the user doesn't want to carry it all the time. That means also you need some kind of surface on the unicorn which allows you to transport it or stuff it somewhere or fixate it somewhere. So now we have the requirements. What's next? The next thing is the usability evaluation. So we have different categories of usability evaluations. We have two phases in which you can do your evaluation. That can be during the development phase or during the usage phase. During the development phase, you use formative evaluations. You can still shape the product. You can still work on it. You usually have something like a running prototype, 3D visualization, some mock-up or something like that, which you can use and try to adjust to the user's needs. During the usage phase, you usually do a summative evaluation. That means you ask a lot of users and you will not have so detailed feedback. You will ask, for example, with a scale and let the users wait what they think about it. The summative evaluation is, for example, pretty good to compare products with each other and could also be used as the input for the next product. So now you know at which time you want to do an evaluation. The next question is, what do you want to know? What kind of feedback would you like to get? So we have quality feedback and quality feedback, which we can get. Quality feedback could be something like, hey, the unicorn is quite often recognized as a dragon. So maybe recoloring would help. Could be an idea of a user. Or another thing is the unicorn doesn't always fit into the baggage, so it would be cool to put it somewhere else, like in a hoodie or something, other form of transportation. On the other hand, quantitative feedback is more like what we described before with the scales. So you can say, on a scale from 1 to 10, what do you think about the size of the unicorn? Then you will get a rating. This rating will not tell you as much about the qualities, but it lets you compare them. So for one product, you would get, for example, a rating of 7 for the other one, an average of 9. That means 9 is probably better. On the other hand, a qualitative feedback, which you can get. This will help you to understand your user much better because you can ask the user why. Why is it not the way you would like it? What would you need to get it the way you need to have it? And this is also why qualitative feedback is usually used during the formative part of the evaluation and quantitative feedback during the summative evaluation. So next question is, whom should you ask? Of course, there are several usability evaluations, which you can do. One, for example, is a cognitive walkthrough where you go through step by step what is the user supposed to know at a certain point in time? Does he find all the things? Does he have the knowledge? And so on. So for example, you're designing a web page and you want to know, does he find the button for the checkout? Well, first of all, does he already know that he needs to do the checkout now? And then is the creation where is the location? Is it in a good place? Is it following what the user would do right now? So you can go through it step by step and follow the task which the user would have in this moment. A second possibility are focus groups. So with focus groups, you can have a discussion with potential users. But for that, you always need a moderator. So you want to analyze certain questions during the focus group. And you have to pay a lot of attention that strong characters in your group do not interfere with the opinions of other people. So imagine you have five people in that group. One has a very strong opinion and you have two very shy characters in the group. It might be that those two persons will not bring forward their feedback or will follow the leader of the group. On the other hand, if you have interaction between the users, it might lead to interaction between the users, which can also increase the feedback from the users. So if you have a good moderator, this can be a very helpful thing. Then we have the classic usability test, usually also called think aloud, where a user performs a predefined task. You have a moderator which is asking open questions and wants the user to demonstrate what he is doing and speaking out why he is doing certain things. This kind of evaluation allows you to have questions on expectations, on reasons, and on certain choices. So let's say the user is supposed to find something on your web page. So you have a search pattern and you can ask why he is searching for a certain word. You might understand that the user thinks of different categories than you do. And if most of your users think of different categories, it might be worse to just your categories so that the user is able to find what he's looking for. And the last point, which I have here on the slides, is an expert review. So a usability expert or several of them could go through your system, through your web page, work on your product, and try to identify the most common issues that a product has. This can be done during very early phases of the development because your expert will find a lot of these things. But there are not actual users. They might have subjective opinions on certain things and you want to verify this later on with a result of an actual user. All right, that was one slide too much. So remember when we now go through and think a lot evaluation, there is one rule. There is no such thing as a layer 8 issue. So when our user is performing in usability tests, he cannot do anything wrong. You are going to set up tasks which the user is supposed to fulfill on your web page. Then you formulate open questions which you would like to be answered during the usability test, and then you choose some participants from your potential users. And it is good if you have a heterogeneous group. So if you ask 10 times the same kind of user, you will get similar input. If you ask different types of users for your product, you will get different input. And by the way, for usability, it doesn't matter how many users will have a problem with your software or your product. If there is one user having a problem, then there is a usability issue which you have to analyze. So now let's prepare our think a lot evaluation. We will have a user on the stage. And we will go through an introduction with the user. Your user should know that you are not examining him. You're examining a product. So the first thing you're going to do with an evaluation is telling the user what you are up to do. So it could be that you're saying, hey, I would like to know more about my fellow Greeny. He's designed to be a travel companion. Today my interest is in his capability to travel along with you. I would like to know from you, as a potential user, how would you transport him and why you choose to do so? To better understand your thoughts, I would like to encourage you to speak out your thoughts loudly, which will help me a lot. Don't be shy. I investigate Greeny. I do not investigate you. There is nothing you can do wrong. So this here is Greeny. We will do that. And then there is the task. We have a user here. Our user will get now this task. You will need this and Greeny. So you're traveling with HandLuggage to a nice country. You're looking forward to sharing nice impressions of this place with your friends. To do so, you want to take Greeny along. Of course, HandLuggage is limited, which is why I have a bag for you. It already contains some other stuff, which you want to take along. Please show me how you would take Greeny along. Remember to share your thoughts with me. So other user is saying she has a bag now, which she carries over the right shoulder. So she is adjusting the length so that it will be a bit lower on the right side. It's more comfortable for the user. So the bag is full. What is she going to do now? So the first possibility is to put the unicorn on top of the bag. It doesn't seem to be good. And why is it not good? So she says, if she is going through a crowd of people, it will get lost. It will fall off. So then what's your next step? Where would you put it then? So she is searching for something to attach the unicorn. Please speak out your thoughts. So she tries to stuff it below the bag. So it works somehow, but it does not look really good for her. And it's not good for the unicorn. It squeezes the unicorn too much. So next try. What are you going to do next? So she is watching for the unicorn's own attachment possibilities. So she tries to attach the wristband of the unicorn to the bag and then close in the bag. So she says, the unicorn looks all the time down, but at least it sees something from the world. And she said that it is probably secured. So are you satisfied with this version? You're satisfied right now. OK, then let's go through the next questions which we have. So how hard was it for you to store greeny in this bag? So it was very hard for her to attach the unicorn to the bag because the first solution did not work properly. And she really had to look hard to find some place to attach the unicorn. So what did help you to store greeny? So there is something on the unicorn itself which helps to store the unicorn. So that was helpful for the user. What made it difficult? OK. So the problem here is that the bag is a little bit too small to store both of the things because the bag is pretty crowded already. So what would be for you more the problem the bag or the unicorn in that case? The bag is too small and the unicorn too big. So we have very important feedback here. What would you change in order to take greeny along more often? So she would buy a larger bag for that. That's also valid feedback. What do you think of the size of greeny? So the unicorn seems to be a little bit too big for travels. And what do you think of the materials with regard to traveling? It will become dirty pretty quickly. OK. And if you could design a travel company and if you could design a travel companion from the scratch, how would your ideal travel companion look like? So from the beginning, a travel companion designed as how would the ideal advice look like? So here we have the feedback from the user. It would be much smaller so that it can be attached always on the body. All right. So here we have a lot of valid and interesting feedback from the user. So we learned something. We need a way to store the unicorn safely, which could be either in the bag or on the outside if we have something to store the unicorn. And this is how we can think now about the feedback. So we need to structure what we just heard. Thank you very much. And then if you have several users, for example, which have given their feedback, you can try to identify really things which were mentioned more often, for example. So it seems to be a usability issue for most of the people. And the very important question is how can you solve those issues? So here the user said, well, I need to attach it somewhere. It could be on the outside. I need to have a safe way. It could be a different bag. It could also be that my unicorn needs something to transport it in a different way. And once you have collected the feedback, you should prioritize. So like with other software development, it's not good to change everything at once. So if you have 100 points as a feedback and you change all 100 points at the same time, you might have regressions. The same can apply to usability. So it could be that you improve one point. But on the other hand, one other point gets worse. So with usability, you usually check some of the things at a time and not everything. Then usability is a continuous process. So it's not like you did an evaluation once at a time and then you're done. Evaluation can be incorporated into the development process. Running a big evaluation test might be too difficult sometimes. But what about talking to a colleague of yours, asking them, hey, what do you think about this stuff? Where would you search for something and so on? Get them to give you feedback on the software. Maybe also try to get feedback if you're allowed to do so from other people which are not like developers, which are working with you on the same project to get different views on it. And after you've done some improvements, compare the results. Did it really improve? If yes, good job. If not, then you might want to think about a different solution. And once you're satisfied with the usability, you can go over to the next step, which is user experience. Now let me explain the difference. Usability is usually considered the ability of the user to use the thing to carry out the task successfully, which we have seen here. Whereas user experience takes a broader view. Looking at the individual's entire interaction as well as the thoughts, feelings, and perception that result from the interaction. So we have here a much broader view on this topic. Usability is one part of user experience. If you have a nice, funny, shiny product, but the usability is awful, new users are not going to like the product. On the other hand, if you have a pretty solid product, but it does not really look like, it depends a little bit on whether your users are going to use it or not. Maybe not everyone. But it could still be that some people are using it. For example, think of a terminal. Some of the hackers might want to use it, whereas the normal user would hate it because he cannot use it properly. And to explain a little bit more about user experience, I have another example. You can see four unicorns on here. They are pretty similar regarding the user experience, not user experience, usability. So they have similar features, similar sizes, and so on. Which one would you prefer? Lift your hands if it is the leftmost unicorn. Lift your hands if it is the second from the left. There's at least some hands. If it is the orange one, some other hands here, and for the white one, there are also some users here. So you can see, even though those unicorns are pretty similar, you have different preferences here. This has nothing to do with usability. It has to do something with user experience. Something similar you can realize in the floor downstairs. Has anyone of you seen the dysers on the floor there? The decoration part of this event? Nobody? Hands up if you've seen them. OK. So do they do anything for the usability? I don't really think so. But they were definitely doing something for the user experience. They were trying to create an atmosphere. They are purely decorative, but nevertheless, you like to see the motor somewhere. There's a difference with those signs, for example, which we have here. They are supposed to give you orientation, so they have some usability aspect as well. And now, I talked a lot about my unicorn, but now let's also talk about the web. During my preparation for this talk, I was visiting the web page from the MRMCD, which is quite nice when it comes to the way it is written. Who would be potential users for this web page? All of you probably. So we have the attendees here. We have speakers. We also have organizers, and we have some volunteers. Now, we can think about ways to analyze this web page as well. So please say, found it once you realized where to click for the call of participation. Yeah, it has some feedback. It is very small. But even though it is a little bit highlighted, it's not really easy to find, because it's hidden in the text somewhere. And even if you have clicked on it before, you have to read the whole text again to find it. What would be possible ways to improve this? First of all, you could have a link on the top as well, or you could mark it somewhere, like with a little figure in front of it to realize it in the text again. Then regarding wording. User experience also has a lot to do with wording. Last week, I accidentally disabled my numpad on the computer. Happens. And I wanted to search for a user ID. And the response of the system made me smile a little bit. So I wanted to share it as well. So thanks to SelfNet for the example. Which way do you prefer? An error occurred. Please try again. Please fill in all required fields. One required field is missing. No results found. Or in the case of SelfNet, it was, sorry, I'm unable to find what you're looking for if you do not fill in anything. Try to enter something in the field. So I even hear some of the people here smiling a little bit in the room. So that has something to do with user experience. You do not just tell the user what to do, but you make him smile about it. And he will feel better with the system. So one question. Does my unicorn have the perfect UI? Maybe not for everyone. But as it is one of a kind, I am the only user to use it. So my unicorn can relax a little bit. And now I want to say thank you to everyone of you for your attention. And if you have questions, there should be two microphones in the room.


Hi there, this is James Swanik and you're listening to the Alcohol Free Lifestyle podcast where you learn how to take back control over alcohol and live a life of health, wealth, love and happiness. Wake up and stop drinking alcohol. It's time. You've been thinking about this for a long time. It is time to start now. My name is James Swanik from the Alcohol Freedom Formula. I've helped more than 20,000 people across the world quit drinking. I've got some free resources for you down below. Wake up. It's a brand new day of energy and clarity and focus and amazing relationships. That's what happens when you choose alcohol freedom. You don't need to be an alcoholic to have alcohol disrupt your life. You don't need to be an alcoholic for your life to spiral out of control. Sometimes it can be this silent destruction that just every week or every month and every year you have these seemingly innocent glasses of wine, the seemingly innocent beer at the end of the night and now all of a sudden the toxins in your body are going to work disrupting your sleep. You're waking up tired, irritable, foggy. Sometimes it takes a couple of days to recover and you don't need to be going out having a huge big night out on the town. All it takes is just a couple of drinks and before you know it you're playing catch-up the rest of the week. Wake up. Do you know that society is in on this whole matrix? I call them smiling assassins.  Have some alcohol. Would you like a wine? Hey, come over for a few drinks. It's time for you to see that this poison that you are drinking is holding you back. Now, what are some of the benefits you get when you choose the alcohol-free lifestyle? For me, I quit drinking in 2010. I wasn't an alcoholic. I was the kind of guy that would drink a two or three glasses of wine some nights, a couple of beers. On the weekends I might drink a little bit more. Definitely not an alcoholic, not getting drunk or anything, but consistently drinking what society would deem to be just a normal amount of alcohol and I woke up and when I woke up, I realized, wow, alcohol is really holding me back. It's affecting my sleep. I've put on about 25 pounds. I look tired. My skin is weathered. My skin is dry. I'm irritable. I'm cranky. I'm not achieving my dreams. I'm just stuck in this constant state of mediocrity, but when I finally went 30 days without alcohol just to start and I loved it so much because I lost 13 pounds because my skin got better. I had more productivity and energy and clarity. I got my dream job, hosting a sports center on ESPN and later creating a business. I realized that all those years it was the alcohol that was keeping me down, playing small. But then when I went alcohol-free, I lost 25 pounds in total over the course of a year. I started going to the gym. I ran a half marathon. I started that business. First of all, I got my dream job at ESPN. Then I started a business, the 30-day No Alcohol Challenge, which has now helped tens of thousands of people around the world quit drinking. I later started Project 90, which is a program to help entrepreneurs and business owners quit drinking for 90 days. I started a sleep company, Swanwick Sleep, with a pair of blue light blocking glasses that we sell with the orange lenses. We've now helped 100,000 people sleep better because of those things. All these amazing things happened in my life because I chose to go alcohol-free. Wake up. It is a brand new day. You can sleep better, feel better, smile more, be more present, be a great role model for your kids. Take that vacation, earn more money, save more money. Just wake up and go, yeah. I feel the way nature intended me to feel. It doesn't mean you have to be walking down the street skipping, skipping, singing Zippity-Doo-Dah, Zippity-Day, but it sure as hell doesn't mean you're walking down the street going, why don't I feel good? I don't understand. I've got everything that society says that I should have and I just don't feel happy. Why? Chances are the alcohol is keeping you down. Alcohol is a depressant, it's a toxin, it's a poison, and yet society celebrates this toxin and this poison as if it's just normal. Wake up. Escape the matrix. There are some free resources down below. Click on them. It's started. Learn how to quit drinking using my methodology. Like this video, share it with someone who you think might benefit from this and wake up because on the other side it is a beautiful new day. Thank you so much for listening. I have some free stuff for you. If you go to JamesSwanick.com forward slash guide, I will send you my formula for reducing or quitting alcohol. If you'd like to watch the video versions of these episodes then you can watch them at my YouTube channel which is at JamesSwanick. If you'd like to send me a direct message on Instagram you can do so at JamesSwanick. If you would like to try a three day challenge, a free three day challenge, you can go to JamesSwanick.com forward slash three day challenge. If you would like to try the 30 day no alcohol challenge, you can go to 30 day no alcohol challenge. If you would like to schedule a 15 minute exploratory call with one of my coaches to see how we may be able to help you in your alcohol free journey, you can go to JamesSwanick.com forward slash schedule. And my request is if indeed you enjoyed this episode or you have enjoyed the podcast, would you please go ahead and rate the show in iTunes and would you please write a review. A review might just be a sentence saying, great listen, hey this was fantastic. Oh, I really enjoyed this.  So yes, while it does help me to get ratings and to get reviews, you will actually be directly contributing to helping someone's life by having them discover this podcast. So if you are open to inspiring others and to helping me in the process, would you please go ahead and give this episode a ranking and would you please write a review. Thank you so much for listening and I will catch you on the next one.


Good afternoon, I'm Mark Wharton. I'm with Farm Bureau Insurance here in Craighead County. I've got Mike Sullivan, who is a farmer in Mississippi County, and Mr. Archie Mason, brother Archie Mason, who is a pastor at Central Baptist Church here in Jonesboro. We're here today to talk to you a little bit about the AgriHealth Network and how it got started. Mike actually came to me as a farmer and a Farm Bureau agent. We've had a relationship and we sat down and talked a little bit about the mental wellness of the farming community and trying to get help to our farmers in our communities, and that's kind of where this started. But the AgriHealth Network is a great opportunity for us to reach out to the farmers of not only Arkansas but the surrounding areas. Well it's amazing the way the good Lord connects all the dots. Mark came to Mississippi County as an agent for a couple years and then transferred to Craighead County, and we got to know one another well. And with the 38 years of farming, how many difficult trials and tribulations we go through, and without faith there's no way that you could do what we do in agriculture. And Archie has a unique way of delivering the message and he usually uses agriculture in his sermons one way or another.  And he can speak our language and I think that's critical to delivering God's word to the agriculture community. We make a statement we're all about faith, family, and farming. And so we want to provide resources for those out there who are experiencing any kind of stress, discouragement in the ag community. You know, I live it. I'm on a farm now. I'm in a cow calf operation with my son. I also pastor the church here. My background is agriculture. It's out of crop consulting business for a number of years. So I live it. I like it, but it is pretty stressful. So at agrihealth.net, our website, we provide resources for anyone who's struggling dealing with stuff, we can help you kind of find the path maybe you need to go on. But one of our resources we're very excited about is called that farm life podcast. And on that farm life podcast, again, we talk about issues and struggles in the farming community that people deal with that most times a lot of times is us guys and farmers and farm men, farm women don't really talk about. And so we look at that as a great resource to kind of create a safe zone in the community where we can talk about some of the stress and the issues that we're facing in the farming community, maybe in marriage and stuff like that. Again, it's all about faith and family and farming at that farm life podcast. I think one of the biggest things that y'all mentioned in sermon that you mentioned too is it's okay and I have to be okay. And we're trying to share that message and reach out and work with as many people as we can. We want to help you. You may be out there right now in the farming community. There's stress, there's struggles, there's discouragement, there could be depression, you think, man, I don't know where to turn. Well, the first thing is reach out to us. Send us an email info at agrihealth.net. We'll be back in touch with you. We've got some resources on the website. We can visit with you. We've got some license counselors are listed on the website. And you can reach out to them or we'll help you get in touch with them. But we can just be someone to listen. That's our desire is to help you get through these tough times in the farm occupation that you're in.