Tool and Confluence, all right, cool, excellent. And yeah, we're based in Sydney, San Francisco, Amsterdam. And there's a couple of us here from Sydney. So it's great to be here. Thanks for having us. So just a little bit about me. I'm an engineer-turned-product manager. I've been doing product management for about 3 and a half, four years now. And I spend most of my time in Elassian working on our collaboration tool called Confluence. It's a content collaboration tool for teams, and mostly helps them create documents like requirements, meeting notes, specifications, that kind of stuff. So that's where I spend most of my day working on that. I also created team calendars at Elassian. It's a commercial add-on that we have on top of Confluence. It helps teams plan, track, and manage their events, their team events, and their projects. So I'm also the product manager for that, half a day a week. And last year, I spent quite a bit of time working on this project that was across all our tools, and it was cross-product notifications and tasks. And the reason I tell you this is throughout each of these experiences, I've learned a lot about getting feedback. And it's been quite challenging. Some have been quite the hard way of getting feedback, and some has been the easy way. And so, for example, on Confluence, we completely changed the way people create content inside our tool. Previously, they had this code-like syntax called wiki markup, and we completely replaced it with a wissy week editing experience. So a huge change, and we learned a lot about how to get feedback during that change, lifecycle, and different techniques we would have to deploy. Team Calendars was something that was new. Alassian was launching a new product and was something that was new. And we deployed and learned different feedback techniques throughout that project. And this cross-product notifications and tasks, it was one of those features that we had a big blurry vision for. And we went through quite a lot of product discovery, and we were unsure who would find this feature the most helpful, what kind of personas or users would use this the most. And so we learned a lot about feedback through that project as well. So I'm going to be talking to you throughout experiences that I've had in each of these projects, kind of like an experience report. And we'll be sharing with you guys the different techniques that we did. So I hope by the end of this presentation you'll be equipped with at least five practical tips that you can take back to your projects or teams for building effective customer feedback loops. Just out of curiosity, how many people you actually work in product teams? All right, three quarters of you. OK, excellent. So this is for you guys. But before I jump into the actual practical tips, I'm just going to spend a bit of time setting up some context on a topic that's been discussed a bit for the last couple of days. And it's about the build, measure, learn lifecycle. Well, he's read the Lean startup book by Eric Reyes. It's been referenced a few times in a few presentations. I highly recommend this book. I learned a lot from reading it. But the premise of the book is fairly simple. And I'm not going to do it any justice in my explanation right now, so I still encourage you to read the book. But it's all about optimizing for learning. And the faster that you can learn, the more sure you can be you're building the right thing for your customers.  And then when you ship it, you learn. And there are different ways of learning, typically measuring through analytics or usages of your features. And then from that, you have ideas.  And the faster that you can learn, the more effective your team can be in making sure that you're building the right tool. And a lot of learning these days happens through number crunching. I spoke to a product manager of a very large organization, who's very famous. And they said to me, we don't talk to customers. And I said, what? He said, no, no, we don't talk to customers. We spend most of our time just number crunching. They're just huge, hive data stores, looking at analytics, and all that stuff. And he was shocked that we spoke to customers on a very regular basis. And I think sometimes we forget to get that unsolicited feedback from customers and have that verbal contact. Or as Jeff had earlier, meeting them face to face and bringing them in your office. So a lot of the feedback techniques I'm going to be talking about is not about number crunching stuff, is about that unsolicited feedback that you can get from your customers for the products that you're building. So let's dive straight into it. Five tips for building effective feedback loops. And the first one I have is all about reducing friction. Friction, friction, friction. You need to be obsessive about removing it. And I'll give you a couple of examples. Some practical real life examples. Like a couple of months ago, I was coming back from a conference in San Francisco, I went back to Sydney and picked something up from Judy Free. And when I arrived in Sydney, I gave the lady my boarding pass so she could get my goods.  And it was 15 seconds to give feedback. Yeah, sure, why not? I'll just give them feedback while I'm waiting for my goods. Great way to reduce friction. They didn't give me a paper or a survey that I had to fill out and then bring back later or something like that. So as I picked up my goods, the person next to me was already filling out their survey and giving him feedback immediately about how he felt their service was working. Or I had to put this photo in. Two days ago, I was in Singapore on the way here. And I came out of the toilet. And there was this big LCD screen in front of me. And it said, please rate our toilet. And so I pulled out my phone. And everyone was walking past. And I'm trying to get the photo of this screen. So it was a bit embarrassing. But talk about reducing friction. You've just used their product if you use that analogy. And you're walking out. And they're asking you to rate their product. And I presume this poor gentleman here would be notified of the different ratings that people would have rated the product that they just used. Sorry? The last line is clear. What was the last line? Oh, the screen is. I did think about it just before I touched it. I was like, oh, is this clean? So but an example that we did at last, and I told you about this earlier, we completely changed the way people create content inside Confluence. This is the tool that I work on every day. So this is the main screen of the tool. This is the editor screen, where people create content.  And it was in context. We wanted to capture feedback about their editing experience. It was right there. And when you clicked on that, you were presented with this screen. No login screen. No redirect to another website. It was all in the product, in the dialogue. It's a modal dialogue, so you didn't have to switch context. And believe it or not, we debated and we agonized over these three fields that appear here. But it was well worth it. We ended up deciding only one in another tool where they need to log in again. You really do want to reduce the amount of fields. Like debate each field that goes on in that feedback form and make sure you have only what you need. And try to automate things where possible. If you need to capture browser information, technology can solve that pretty well today. As you saw in the example of the toilet, I thought it was a great one. Just if that's all you're after, a yes or no, or how do you like this feature, then make it really easy for the end user to express themselves to use your tool. So how can you do this? How can you build these feedback forms? Well, there are plenty of free services out there that help you do this. This costs you no money. If you are a JIRA customer, which I know half of you here, we have the JIRA issue collector, and that's free. But there's WiFu's free Google Apps. You can use that for free. Hips of free stuff out there. So it's not hard to do this, and you guys should be doing this and all your products. It's amazing the unsolicited feedback that you get. My second tip is all about making the experience fun. And I actually don't know, but do you get the biggest loser in India? Have you heard about it? Yes? No, some sheep. So for those of you who haven't seen it, it's a reality TV show where people lose weight and they've turned it into a game. And in Australia, we have a terrible habit of copying everything, all the reality TV shows from the States. So we have it in Australia as well. And what amazed me is the amount of different editions of the show that they can make.   But I came back home from work one day throughout this Confluence 4.0 release, and the whole changing of the editor thing. And I was trying to think about what we can do to encourage people to give us feedback.  And I thought, hey, why don't we create this competition called the Biggest Winjer? And I have to explain what Winjer is, because it's an Australian slang. It's someone who complains a lot. And so hence the baby having a sook or complaining, another slang term, sorry, complaining about this. So we created this competition called the Biggest Winjer. And we said, hey, whoever gives us the most amount of feedback, we're going to give you a prize by the time we ship Confluence 4.0. So because all that stuff was coming into our issue tracking system, we could easily report on it and graph and work out who is giving us the amount of feedback. And we gave them gold class movie tickets and said, hey, thanks for taking time out to give us feedback. We really appreciate it. For team calendars, I told you earlier that was a new product that our company was launching.  You will not have to pay for this product ever again. We'll give you a free license. And I was amazed at the amount of feedback that we received from customers that took time out of their day to give us feedback. Another technique we used, which we copied out of the Xerahinota Balsomic. They're a mock-ups tool. They do this really well. They're very personal with their customers. They actually call out all the customers that give them feedback in their release notes. And they say, hey, thank you for that suggestion. I made a huge difference and we implemented this feature. And it goes a long way for that user feeling engaged. And they're more encouraged to give you feedback a bit later. So think about how you can make the experience more fun by incentivizing through prizes or awards. Take time out to say thank you. It goes a long way to show some appreciation for the time that people give you to give you feedback on your products. And where possible, think about some game mechanics. Make it a competition or a prize. Give some different incentives for people to give you feedback. So we've talked about reducing friction. We've talked about making this experience more fun. My third tip is about getting personal. And I'm not talking about finding your most attractive customer and asking them out on a date. I'm talking about really getting a deeper understanding of your customers. So on my way here, I emptied out my wallet. And I have this habit of just emptying out my wallet before I travel. So I'm afraid I'll lose all these cards that I never use. And some of these cards came out. And I was looking at them. And they're just consumer rewards cards. You know, the things where you collect points for shopping or frequent flyers or hotel, that kind of stuff. And I was thinking about the other end. They learn a lot from my usage. As I use their products or services, I'm giving up some of my privacy. In exchange, I hope they're going to get a better product in return. So they're learning a lot about me as a customer and the different things that I do or the things that I like or don't like. And so I talked to you briefly at the start about this cross product notifications feature that we're building at Atlassian. I'm not going to dive into details of that. It's kind of irrelevant. I guess the point is we had this project that we were doing a lot of product discovery. We were not sure on the types of person, types of people that would be using this tool. What kind of role are they in? What kind of features would they like or not like? And so Atlassian is getting quite big now. And we're now 600 people. I mean, it'll be big for some of you. I spoke to some of you here that worked for a company that was 23,000 people. But so one of our engineers came up with something quite creative. And internally, because this was all internal, it was not as many privacy concerns, we had this giant wall board. So we got this LCD TV where the team sits and we plotted a picture of the usages of that feature of that day. And we rolled the feature internally. We didn't tell anyone about it. And we wanted to see who uses the feature. And so we had to take a closer look here. This is not this guy's hot or not rating. It's his actual usage. So we had a picture of the user and the key features metrics that we were interested in about that particular user.  He's using it again today. Why don't we reach out to John for an interview? He seems to be using tasks a lot. Let's ask him why he's using tasks. What's he finding helpful about it? What's he finding painful about it? And so we used that a lot to get an understanding of who this feature stuck with and who the persona was so we can learn quickly. In fact, their engineer went even further. And I haven't got a screenshot of this where he drew some pie charts. And because this is internal, we graphed by department who used the feature the most. So we quickly understood this feature was used most with business people that had teams working in JIRA, but they spent most of their time in Confluence. And we'll be able to zone in on that customer of ours so we can learn a bit more about them. So putting a face to the staff, that goes a long way to getting some feedback. You get some engineers. And it's amazing what it does in terms of engagement. They can see the people that use their tool every day. And what we did is we got those people that we wanted to talk to that had interesting usage metrics, and we reached out to them for interviews. And we had one-on-one discussions with them. And we said, hey, what don't you like about this? What do you think this is supposed to do? So it helped us learn quickly about this product discovery phase that we were going in for this particular feature. So my fourth tip is a bit boring, but you should really think about this. And it's not that hard. And I want to show you that it's not that hard. Have a think about writing a feedback strategy before you ship your next release. I want to give you four basic criteria that you can think about. This probably heaps more, but this four works pretty well for us. So it may be relevant to you guys. The first one is what you're building or what you want feedback for, a new feature or a new product? Or is it something that's existing? Because how you get feedback for those two different ways is quite different, actually. Or are you after something internal? You're deploying to internal customers or external customers? Because there's different privacy concerns, and getting feedback can differ quite drastically between these two. Are you after feedback for a specific feature or are you after general feedback for your product? Because if you're after something specific, you may need to think about having some contextual feedback mechanism for that feature. Whereas general, you'll have a general placement of your feedback button. Are you driven by a deadline? Or are you just after ongoing feedback? Because you may deploy different techniques if you are driven by a deadline or if you want something ongoing all the time, you don't need to incentivize people as much. So a quick practical examples for team calendars. This is the new product that we launched. This was new. And so we had to find different techniques to encourage customers to take time out of the day to install something new. And so that's why incentivizing went a long way. And we found some potential beta customers and we built a relationship with them and we checked in with them weekly. So we had to make sure there was probably a bit more high touch to get feedback on those examples. Was it internal? Was it external? Well, this was both. We captured we had internal customers and external customers. So we learned a lot about feedback through that way. And for internal, we're a bit more slack with the data that we collected because we could collect a bit more than what we could do external. It was a new tool. So we're after general feedback. We went after feedback for a specific sub feature of that tool. And so we had a big floating kind of button at the bottom that said, hey, give us feedback. You can kind of close it off or whatever. And we arranged casual interviews for the tool. For us, we had a deadline. And so I talked to you earlier about we gave customers a free copy of the software. And so that went a long way to incentivizing people to give us feedback with a deadline.  I told you we just talked to these people regularly and we checked in with them weekly. So right out of plan of attack, it's not that hard. It's probably just a table on a page with a couple of paragraphs. It's not going to take a lot of time. But what that helps you do is if you do this regularly, you can start to set a baseline on the amount of feedback that you receive and then set some goals. So you can say, hey, last release, we got so much feedback. Next release, we're going to try and get this much more. Or it's a bigger change, so we should expect to get more feedback. So you can start to use this iteratively as you release more software. My last step is probably my most favorite tip. And a few people touched on this already in the conference. And just the idea that you can get feedback well before you write any line of code. And I think it's that gentleman Owen. Yeah, he spoke about building the MVP for the enterprise yesterday morning. And a lot of similar concepts with his talk. So if you were his talk, a lot of similar learnings, and I found myself nodding, and we deployed some different techniques to get feedback well before we start. So a little story to this. I was in Bali. Anyone here been Bali, Indonesia? No one? Oh, well. Or one person. And I was walking down the shops. If you're not wearing a surf brand, you're not cool. That's what they tell me all the time. And I was walking down the road and some shops on the side. And I found these great surf t-shirts, Billabong and Quicksilver. And they were like $5. And I was, this was great. This was my Christmas presents and birthdays for the next couple of years. I'll just buy a whole heap. And I'll be the coolest uncle they've ever had. And I got a whole bunch of shirts. And I went back to the hotel. And I was so proud showing my negotiation skills to my wife. And I was like, hey, check this out. I got like 10 shirts for this many dollars and all this stuff. And she said, did you read these shirts? I said, yeah, it's Billabong and Quicksilver and all these cool brands. She's like, no, no, no. That says Billabang. It's spelt wrong. And I was like, oh, no. What am I going to do? So I risked it. I went back to Sydney and gave my little nephews their t-shirts. I was the coolest uncle in the world. They did not notice. OK, I thought maybe they didn't say anything about it because they were trying to be polite. But they're not very polite kids. So I'm pretty sure they didn't notice at all. But you can go a long way faking it. And I certainly was fooled thinking I found these shirts with these cool brands on it. But if you can fake it, you can save a lot of time and money to get your job done. And so Atlassian, I want to share with you some techniques that we have done internally of a toolkit that we've built to help us fake it. And Owen talked about how they built a static site that had no back end. And we have done similar things. And we have done similar techniques at Atlassian. So it costs us no engineering time. As customers come to us for features, we'll do these techniques before we'll even engage engineers just to get feedback, make sure we're on the right track. So the first tool that we have is we have a user interface library. So if you build products, you probably generally have a set of components that you use for your user interface. And we have this static thing that's called a flakpack. It's a massive HTML file with all the user elements, user components, dialogues, buttons that we use in our tools in one big file. So we can grab that file at any time. And if you know some basic HTML, you can quickly mock up a screen, put some buttons in a dialogue, and get some feedback on is this in the right location, that kind of stuff. Fairly cheap to do. You need to know a little bit of coding, but fairly cheaper to do. So that's what we call a flakpack. And that's what we have internally. And you might want to consider doing something different for your software. We have one of our engineers built this really cool framework internally. And my best analogy for it is think of browser extensions, but for a specific software, specific web applications. So he created this plug-in architecture to allow us to create user-specific extensions. So they're really just hacky bits of JavaScript, HTML, and CSS that manipulate the page. It's great for the type of feedback that you might want to get is, is this button prominent enough, or should we do this, or should we prompt someone after they do this task? It's all stuff that you could do with some really basic coding without deploying new software. So he's built it all so anyone can go into the tool and create this. And there are HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. It looks like this, a really basic screenshot, but this is confluence of our product. And in my username, I've got an extension section, and I get a directory of all the extensions that are available. And people have hacked the product to try and do different things. And we've actually found the really popular extensions kind of almost validate themselves. And they're like, OK, we should take that and bake it into the product and make it a core feature. These are really basic things. You can edit the source code in the product, so you don't have to download and do all this funky stuff. You can move pages around, that kind of stuff. Really basic. This actual framework is open source. It's called SpeakEasy. We have it internally. So you can go check it out and see if you want to deploy something for your products that you do like to do something quite similar. It's changed the way we prototype. It's really cheap prototypes for basic visual changes. So if you put this on a kind of graph of speed at the bottom of how quick you can communicate a concept to get feedback on. And fidelity, whether it's high fidelity or low fidelity, that SpeakEasy, HTML, flat pack stuff, probably in the middle for me, but it's different for each person. I'm not the greatest coder, so it's probably in the middle top. We have designers and designers love Photoshop, so they can produce good fidelity mockups. They're not quite interactive, but they're visual designs. If you use a mockups tool like Go Mockingbird, Balsamic, there's heaps of those free ones out there as well, you can crank something out really quick, but it's really low fidelity. So over the last year, I've been thinking about this space a lot because I'm trying to always validate concepts and get feedback as quickly as possible. And I found a tool that for me sits in this top right hand corner, fairly quick and medium to high fidelity. And so to give you an example of what we've done to use this tool, I wanna show a video that we showed customers for this cross product notifications and tasks feature that I've talked about a few times. This is a video that I recorded for the feature that we were building for customers.  This whole video is fake. So no, not a single line of code, completely fake. We can reorder things, that kind of stuff. And we showed it to plenty of customers and as we were showing them the video, they were already telling us, hey, this star thing doesn't make sense. I don't understand it. What is that? What doesn't work for me? How do I add personal tasks? Okay, well, let's let you add personal notes up here. And then we also took the video and we showed it to plugin developers because our products are kind of like a platform. We said, hey, your notifications can appear here. Check this out. You can send notifications in here. This is what it could look like. What do you think? Do you have any questions? And they were like, well, what happens if I move this there? And so we actually started getting a lot of feedback before we wrote any code at all. This whole thing took me about two hours to do. And after doing this, we got much faster at doing them over and over again. So that tool is Keynote. Does anyone use Keynote or PowerPoint to prototype? Three, three people, four people. It's changed the way I work. I've found it extremely valuable. I do lots of presentations, so I'm proficient in Keynote, so that works quite well. If you use Microsoft PowerPoint, try Microsoft PowerPoint. It's amazing the kind of stuff that you can do. So I want to give you a quick guide on how you can do this yourself. This is the Keynote edition. I'm sure there's a PowerPoint edition as well. This is the Keynote edition that I demo internally to our other product managers and designers, and they use this themselves to prototype stuff pretty quick, or get feedback well before we start writing any code. First step, take a base. Make your base like you're making a cake. You need a base ingredient. In our case, it's usually a screenshot of a screen that we want to start working with. So we'll take a screenshot of that, and then we'll mix and match some Keynote goodness. So that flat pack that I showed you earlier, that big HTML file, I got that whole HTML file, and I recreated a lot of those elements inside a giant Keynote file. So headers, buttons, toolbars, form elements, dialogues. I literally just drew the shapes. It wasn't a lot of effort. And as we keep adding to it, everyone shares this library and we keep contributing to this library. It's got tables, colors, messages, all that kind of stuff, lozenges. So this is a shared library that we use internally. And you can come back to this and use elements out of that in your prototype, and I'll show you how in a sec.  So you might want to transition between slides. You can set click areas. For those of you building mobile apps, Keynote is excellent for that. I'm almost out of time, two minutes. So I'll give you a quick three-minute example of how you can do this yourself. First step, make your base. I talked about this earlier. So I'm going to take a screenshot of this tool that we're going to do. This is our support portal, and I'm going to paste it here. So one of our support engineers had this great idea of, hey, what happens if people could tweet their support experience? What if they could share their support experience? Okay, so I'm going to go back to my Keynote library that we created for all our front-end buttons and components. I'm going to take a button here, and I'm going to put a button inside our product that lets people tweet. So after you're working in a support ticket with one of our support engineers, you can say, hey, this didn't work for me. Can someone from Atlassian help me out here? So we drag and drop the button. We can rename it. We can resize it. It's really simple. I'll just fast-forward a bit because I'm getting someone signaling at me. You're crazy. Jeff, this is your fault. So I add an image here, resize the button. So I'll go back to my Keynote file, and I need a dialogue. So we've already drawn one up with a rectangle. It's not rocket science. I'll literally highlight that from my source Keynote file, and I'll go to the one I'm prototyping. I'll paste it, and I'll just move some buttons around. This is all three minutes, by the way, not fast-forwarded stuff that I just did. And, okay, well, we got some text there to eat the support experience. We can kind of communicate the concept that we're trying to build here. I'm going to pretend that someone's typing so you can get a feel that someone's actually filling out this form. So I'll write up some text here, and then you can use transitions to communicate that someone's typing. And so Keynote lets you have this typewriter transition so you can make it look like someone's typing and filling out the form. Let's do that now. We'll just apply a transition. So select it, and you go apply some transitions. You can go, and now we'll actually set a click area so it looks, it's a bit more interactive. So this button, we want it to be clickable. So we'll click that, and Keynote lets you link between slides and have clickable areas and that kind of stuff. So we'll make it a click and we'll make it go to the next slide. And that's it, that's three minutes. Well, it's not three minutes. I fast forwarded a bit, but you get the idea. I hit play. This is the concept. Oh, there's a button there that we've added. When I press that button, oh, I get this dialogue. Okay, cool. I want to share my experience with the support engineer. I'm going to fill it out and get some feedback. Done, three minutes. Three minutes to communicate a concept, get lots of feedback from it. No code, no engineers engaged. Really cheap, really easy to do. It's okay to fake it. So don't feel bad about it. It's great to get feedback. We saw some great examples of that yesterday as well in some other presentations. Build a toolbox. I showed you some of the tools that we have. I haven't got time to show you all the tools, but those are some of the tools that we have. So have a think about the tools that you can build for your products and use the right tool. It's not always good to use high fidelity designs and prototypes, because if you don't want feedback about the design, then don't do that stuff because you'll get someone going, oh, why is that button the light shade of red and they want it blue? And if that's not what you want feedback for, maybe use a low fidelity tool. So have a think about the right tool for the right situation. So in case you forgot, conclusion, build measure alone. The faster you learn, the better it is for you guys. The more you can make sure you're building the right thing. Reduce friction. I would give you several tips and techniques for reducing friction, making the experience fun and engaging through game mechanics. Get personal, spend some time getting to know your customers. Spend a couple of minutes running a feedback strategy. It's not really that much work. And think about how you can get feedback well before you write any code way over time. So thank you. I'll be at the back for questions. Thanks guys.


As you begin to respond to the Spirit man, as you begin to do the things that are according to the desires of the Spirit, the flesh, the sin nature, begins to become weaker, it begins to lose power, it begins to lose influence in your life. Here's the problem all too often. We as believers, believers, these are children of God. We're feeding, feeding, feeding the flesh. We neglect the spiritual in exchange for the earthly. We neglect the sacred in exchange for the secular. And this is not something that we ought to be doing. And when you feed the flesh, the flesh gets stronger.


Oh, yeah. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. You know contemporary dance? That was contemporary music. What? Hey, welcome back to our interview with R-G-Sky. I'm Rick. And follow me on Instagram. Twitter 4G-Scott. Like interface. Oh. You know what that means. If you should have an evolution of intro from inception to now and see how far it's devolved. If you hear the de trick. We've been saying follow him on Twitter. Yeah. Today, we're doing a watch along. You don't have to. It's out that it. Yeah, because we're going to do a review at the end. So I guess the watch along. Maybe the watch along should be. I don't know. I'll come up with something. And today, we are doing a watch along of the Tamil film theory, which is a VJ film. The big superstar. And the reason I want to get to this one right now, if you haven't seen our master one, is because this is directed by Atlee, who's the same director as Jawan. Got it. And I want us to get to at least one of his before it, as well as another VJ film that a lot of people have recommended. It'll be another mass film, probably not in terms of, I don't think, as visually dark. Probably his master, because that's Lokesh's style. And we've seen songs from this and other things. And I think a fight seemed even from this. If I made a movie called Master, I'd come out with a sequel called Bader. Cool. But anyways, we're just going to jump into this. If you're watching this on YouTube, obviously you're going to see a very cut up version. You just use about five to 10 minutes in each part. If you'd like to see the full on cut version, just like everything else, you can head over to Patreon. And watch the full on cut reactions over there. I'll put the link in the description below and the pinned comment. And let's just get into this. Let's watch along, shall we? Tharavari! Also, other people in this are Amy Jackson. Okay. Who we haven't seen a ton of, I think we've seen her once, but apparently Samantha Ruprabu is in it. Oh, great. But this is also in, came out in, I believe, 2016. 2016. So, let's just get into this, shall we? Yes, let's do it. Shall. Shall? Shall. Shallow Hal. Shallow Hal. So, kid named Hal who won't go in the deep end. Also, you are correct in terms of like, the themes of a lot of his movies are like, he's the one with justice, family entertainers, helping the kids a lot of times, kind of, just. Got it. You are correct in your assessment, a lot of people say. Like a Stanley Kubrick film. Machu? No. Smoking kills. Prove it, there's not one piece of evidence. Liquor drinking is injurious to health. Without naming science.  And please, by all means, if an actor is smoking a cigarette, put a giant warning on the screen so I can remember not to smoke. That's the only way I know actually. Please, it's, without it, I would be a chain smoker.  Like when old school Hollywood movies that they have all the songs on the credits or at the front of the film. I've always hated it. I don't have patience for that. The spark. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that song. Let's bring it back. Is it coming back? Bring it back. Yeah, yeah. You gonna do the robot? How do you like the intro? I love this. I don't like the visuals. I like the song though. It's gonna be on the workout playlist. I do like that. I could roll up a fat joint right now.   That's right. He got me wet. There's, there's so much wrong about this already.  And he's gonna go after the killers. I don't think so.  Check it out.  Last looks looks good on man before school today. That polka vibes now. Yeah. That jazzy vibes. The... How can you handle a person who's so late in these covers? These covers? No. Don't answer all the questions. Go get the customers. Go. Did the mouse just say get lost, baby? No, I think that was the guy. That they definitely could put a squeak noise over it though. Cosmo, I got the baby. No need. Compliment. Something's going to happen though. They're building up this relationship. Oh yeah. Roll fast.  What show is that? Ola, my baby. What are you doing? Both of us got into an accident. That's why I... I don't have any problem if they hit me. We saw a guy in a jar and he was in high-pace training. Oh no, sir. I didn't go anywhere. My name is Joseph Kurvil. This is my country. I want to run a bakery here. Vijay Kumar. I wish we had thunderstorms like that. We just had a tropical storm. Oh yeah. Aralai Josephan. That doesn't feel good. Take her away. Sorry, I... She's going to be like our lady in the series and she's going to be turned on. It's like, what's up? Five years ago. Oh, my God. I thought it was Vijay Raaz at first, just because he's skinny. I'm going to go well for you. Like a diamond in this car. Why is he singing like that? I don't know. Mr. India. No way they got the right to respond, man. Warnings to any photo-sensitive viewers. He definitely does have a baby face. Bro, I don't see this going well for you. That must be one of his signature things. That must be one of his signature things. Look at the circulatory system. Invertebrates are about four chambers. Wow! Watch out, man. You're taking someone, drinkers and killers in this car for ten months. Shouldn't you take me with you? Mummy! What? Auto. Rajendra, I'm wearing your shoe lace. Thank you very much. Mummy! Mimigiri. Yes. Isn't it good? I heard that you had to do that first. Hey, Raji. He's doing a lot of work in the tobacco market. If we start working early in the morning, we won't be able to come here, sir. In three days? Yes, sir. Then why didn't you keep your visa? All the names must be in there in ten minutes. One rupee. Sir, there are four entire chambers, sir. There are 15,000 people working in three shifts. If we don't find any girl, we'll be in trouble. The victim was brutally raped again and again for the past three days. She lost a lot of blood. Her intestines were damaged. Most of all, I think people who raped would have been in trouble. In the case of the IT officer Raji Rape and Moda, Ashwin is the one. They have told you about that girl's dying declaration, sir. No! Sir, your son is the one who is responsible for an important case. I don't care about your intelligence. Put my son in there. I'll come and see you with the promotion. Greetings. In one year, there are 33,000 rape cases in India, sir. One day, if anything, there will be 93% of rape cases, sir. Four girls like Raji who died an hour ago, sir. Damn! The case is taking place, sir. If we get the case of a rape case, don't tell the public about the situation. Hit him, break his face, break his throat, or we'll be in trouble! Let's go to the bridge. Sir! Just watch. And that'll be the end of part one. Reaction to theory. If you'd like to see, if you've watched this on YouTube, obviously you saw a very cut-up version. If you'd like to see a full-on cut version, you can have a Patreon, I'll put the link in the description below, and a pinned comment, and onto the next part!


What's up, you guys? It's Adana. Welcome back to my channel. So this channel is completely like for the most part based on how to get into PA school, you know, my journey through PA school, all of the various different nitty-gritty stats, some GPA, personal statement, all of those things to help you get into PA school. But who really gets into PA school? That is the question that we're going to be answering today. Hey, I wonder if you've had time to look into the gap in time slash age between undergrad and PA school applicants. The typical undergrad is 22-ish, but the typical PA student accepted is 25 to 27 depending on the school. Can we discuss? Yes, we can. A video validating the upper 20s people may have may help with advice or conversation on the good and bad of taking time between undergrad and PA school. And this is something that people genuinely generally want to know, like, should I take a gap year? You know, like, am I too old for PA school? I've done videos on this in the past. So if you haven't seen any of those videos, kind of just go ahead and look at my search bar and you can search for those videos. But these are questions that we all as pre-PAs would typically have depending on our age, depending on where we're at in this pre-PA journey. But Lauren is absolutely correct. The typical age of somebody graduating from undergrad is like 21-22. You're graduating around that time. But really when people are starting PA school, the average PA student is about 25 and that there's a lot that goes into consideration with that. But I just want to show it to you like for yourself with your own eyes, you can see exactly what I'm talking about. So this is the PA EA program report. So PA EA is the educational body of the physician assistants. They're the ones that do some of our exams and things like that. They help, they help kind of like navigate like what PA education should look like. And so they do a report at school or program report each year. And this is the one from the 2019-2020 cycle. And so they actually surveyed about 229 schools, which is roughly like 92 or so percent of the schools that were in actually like available. I think there was, there's over like 300 programs, but you know, 229 is a good sample size. And of that is about 10, a little over 10,000 students. And so we can actually just do, I did the math on that for you all just so you can see. So about 10,000 divided by 229. That's about 43 students a program. Okay. And that's, I mean, I think that's pretty average. And my school had 30 students. They were working their way up to 45. I think anywhere from like 30 to 45 is the average amount of students that a class of school will admit for their cohort. There are some schools that admit more and there are schools that admit less like 25, but that is around the average. Okay. And so in that, we have this, the score report here. And I just kind of want to take this down to who exactly kind of gets in, right? So they talk about payment and location and all of those various different things, but let's talk about who gets in, like what are the statistics on the actual student? All right. So let me pull this up to you for you guys. So here we are a section for where it talks about the students. So you have all of these, this information here about like what the student will look like in terms of enrollment, like how many are first year and versus second year students only versus versus first, second and third year students. And we're looking at all of these standard deviations and all of that number. But I really want to look specifically at some of these numbers here in terms of the, the capacity and the actual demographics of the students. Okay. So it talks about who takes what, right? So we have the CASPER tests coming up, making its way on this and there's about 2% of the programs are requiring that obviously that's kicking up. And so if you don't know about CASPER, I will be making a video on that as well. But you see the majority of students, the majority of schools are still requiring the GRE and that's 57.7% of programs are still requiring the GRE for admission. So that is something that you really need to think about because with over 300 programs, if you want to make yourself the best applicant or a broad applicant, then you might want to take the GRE. Okay. So that's the average score is 153 for verbal reasoning and 152 for quantitative. So when and 4.1 for analytical. So essentially 153 for both. So when you're looking at that, that's 306. So when I tell you, like, I think that you should be shooting for a 305, you know, I'm not wrong in that because for the most part, these are the stats that students are coming in with, you know, schools want you in that 300 brackets. So if you're not hitting that, then you might want to think, okay, do I need to get another study prep? Do I need to do a little bit more?   Okay. All right. So we're talking about patient care experience, health care experience, community service, and you see again, like between like the minimum amount versus the maximum amount. Now, obviously, like that is like huge 25,000 hours. Like that's a lot. Okay, but let's look at what that median or that that mid range is. And it's about 3000 for patient care experience. 3000 hours. Now that is a lot, you guys. That's a lot of hours.  And so you want to make sure that you're setting yourself up for the opportunity to really get into PA school. You want to be part of these statistics because you want to get in. So you have to bump up some of those hours. Okay. Now, obviously, this is one of the reasons why the average age of the PA student is 25 between your 25 and your 27 because you have to take time to get these hours. You know, you're not going to be typically someone's not going to come out of undergrad with over 3000 hours of direct patient care experience. So you're going to be either taking a year or two to work in the field full time and get some of those hours or maybe three or maybe four or five for these people that are coming in with 25,000 hours. Okay. So let's look at the demographics. I spoke about this a little while ago that the majority of the PA school students are females versus male. It says about 72.2% are female versus the 26.4%. Let me just zoom in right there for you that are male. Okay. The average is about the mean is 73.8 versus 26.3. So that's just something that you might want to look into or think about. You know, we have a little bit of an upper hand as females. Like it's the healthcare is very highly like female driven, especially when it comes to like nursing and and PA school and and NP school. And so fellas, you may have a little bit more ground to cat to cover, but also you can look at this as a benefit to you because they may need more males in the program or they want to admit more males because as a patient, you want to see somebody that looks like you often, you know, like my husband, he wants to go and see like a male doctor or a male PA, although he's fine. Seeing females, it's just a more of a comfort level. And so that's something that you may be able to use as your advantage. Okay. Um, so we're talking about ethnicity here and this is where, you know, like my heart falls a little bit because when you're looking at these percentages of students in terms of ethnicity, you know, minorities are kind of falling short here. And I think that that's definitely something that we need to address. We need a little bit more diversity. Well, a lot more diversity in healthcare in general, but especially in the PA field, because that's where I'm at. Okay, but for Hispanic, Latino or Spanish in origin, it's about 7.6% non Hispanic. It's 83.7%. Okay. Uh, when you're going now down to where they break it down by race. Uh, so American Indian or Alaska, it's 0.5%. Uh, Asian is 9.9%. Uh, black or African American is 3.9%. There are people who identify as multiracial. That's 2.1%. White is 69.4%. Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander is 1.6. And then there are other races or other people who identify as other and or unknown and they make up about 13.5% of the student population. Okay. And so again, looking at some of these stats, you may think, oh my gosh, I'm a little bit discouraged because, you know, I maybe you fall in the 3.9%. Um, it was like 3.4% when I applied. So we're, we're kicking things up a little bit, but maybe you fall in, in that, in that realm and you're like, man, like my, my chances of getting in are so low, but no, these are things that you can use again as your advantage. You use this as a strength. You say, you know what, um, I believe that there should be diversity and that's why I'm here to fill that spot. I really want to, um, be there for people in my culture and in my race, uh, be that sounding board for them, be that voice for them that they may not necessarily have with somebody that doesn't look like them and that is something that you really should keep in mind. Um, these are all things that you want to look at, but here we are with respect to the age. Okay. So here we go again. Average age of first year student 25.2%. So the median is 25%. The mean is 25.2. The average age of the youngest, um, matriculate is 21.1, um, and those may be, again, people that comes to either direct entry or you're coming in, uh, as a bridge program and then average age of the oldest matriculate is 39.4%. And so that is like really cool and that's key because for my older, my more mature, um, individuals that are trying to get into PA school, if you're in your mid to late 20s, um, or early 30s, even 40s, you can see that there's a place for you. Um, you know, people are getting into PA school at all ages. The average age is 25, but again, that will probably even kick up, uh, because, you know, people are using this opportunity to not only get extra healthcare experience hours, but they're turning to the PA profession as a second career, which is what it was meant to be. And so for all of those that you, you may feel a little bit discouraged, please do not feel discouraged because there is absolutely a place for you. Um, if you are trying to get your C, I really want you guys to do something for me. Please go to get that C University. Um, because we are trying to feature, we want to feature PA students, pre-PA students that are trying to get their C on our Instagram page.  And we definitely want to be able to tell your story. So again, that these are some good stats. You can go to PAEA.online.org. I believe it is.  But where you will be able to see this program report, you can go through and look at the stats, look at GRE scores and all of those various different things that you guys asked me questions on so that you can see exactly where you stand and where you may want to get to to be, you know, part of this average student or, or closer to the mean or median average of what's going on with respect to the applicants that are admitted into PAEA school because when you're looking at over 28,000 applicants and, um, you know, 10,000 are getting admitted or 8,000 might be getting admitted. You want to make sure that you're, you're part of that, that 30 or so percent of students that are going to be getting admitted into PAEA school. Okay. So just keep that in mind. Um, hopefully you guys like this information. Please go ahead and subscribe. If you haven't already done so like this video, follow me on Instagram at a down in the PA. Don't forget to DM get that's the university, your bio and your picture for a feature and I will talk to you guys next time.


Hello people of the internet, my name is Johnny and welcome to Broken Dreams. This is a fan game that was made for the FNAF game jam recently and I really wanted to check it out because it looks really creepy and I've heard a lot of good stuff about it. So we're going to hit play and there goes BB running off, uh that probably is not a good sign, what did he run off to?  All you can hear are the droplets of water seeping through the ceiling, memories are disappearing into the darkness, shadows of the lost children are haunting you, well that doesn't sound too good. Get out of here before the lost children come to consume you as well. So I gotta ask, oooh cutscene, I gotta askabe.  Oh no, is this an elevator? I don't really know what I'm doing. Heavy mask right there, that is really creepy. So down two, up one, I hit the down one twice and then, what am I doing? I did that but I guess I did it wrong. Okay so, oh is this FNAF 3? Oh awesome, you're creepy. This is very ve- oh dude, no, no, no. Hi friend. Boo! Epic things, can I hide? I would like to hide, thank you. Oh Jesus Christ, welcome. I would like to leave, cutscene, he's gonna be there. What are you doing on the ceiling there friend? Why are you up on the ceiling, buddy? Hey, I know that place. Jeez. The other three were shot in random areas of their body. Police found out that the murderer was the owner's son. After the police opened an investigation on the son and his father, the police found out that they were doing the same thing in multiple locations with static identities. One of the kids' bodies had their face... I have no more light.   Down, down, up, I know. I wanted to listen to the radio. Down, down, up. Objective, unlock the safe room. Did you see those colored buttons? Maybe look at the drone to the right of it. Okay. So, you got Chico with two kids, you got Freddy with three kids, Bonnie with one and Foxy with none. Except it says one, two, three, four. Alright, what's going on in here? Sometimes enemies might hide behind certain areas. Be careful when checking. Keep your ears open for any signs of them. Well, I did not know that game, so... Cool. Well, luckily I'm right here, so... Okay, so don't open that then. So, what do I do? Just wait. Wait until they go. Okay, well, thanks. Gone? Yeah, so it's like T-Jock mechanic. Okay, so... What's this? Oh god, I can't... Oh, that was my light, okay. So I need to get over there? What's that say? I have no clue what that says. Here. Okay, so... Oh wait, there's something in there. Alright, it showed something in here. Oh, I'm guessing I was supposed to do that? Maybe? Close that. Yeah, just... Hi. Go away. Cool, cool. Well, check out all these games. Check out all these references. Ah! Hey! Brofist. Rot and Bear can only hear you. Try crouching to move silently. Okay? Oh, use the TVs to stop them from hearing you? Is that what that just said? Interesting. Hi. What is he doing down there? What is he doing down there? I'm gonna turn it on the TV. Don't mind me. So now I should be able to just walk. What are you doing? Oh. Okay. Hi. What is that? What is this? The Mangle creeps through. If you hear metal clanging, hide and lock as fast as you can. Okay. I'm gonna go this way. There's another TV monitor. Oh. Oh, I need... Okay. It looks like I need... Why can't I stand up? There we go. Okay. So I need two fuses. Okay. So, are these monitors a one-time use? Because... In the bottom... Ah. Ah. There's no locker. Just don't get me. Cool. If I just go away, then they don't see me. Bathrooms. Oh, come on, dude. They did not hear me. Oh. Game over. I picked up a collectible. Check. I mean, check. What? Why is there drip drips? What? What am I checking here? Oh, hey, buddy. Just gonna do that. Who? Hey, buddy. Don't tell me. How... How is he hiding behind... How is he hiding behind that? Because I saw him. I'm guessing that this BB guy is... Kind of like the... Fallen Angel guy. Right? If you look away, he gets closer. Oh, yeah. Oh. Oh, come on, dude. Come on, come on. Apparently, taking... Taking out my... Glowstick is like a Muraka. What? God, it's like you can't... You have to stay crouched the entire time. Hide in the locker as fast as you can, and that's what I did, game. Now, I need to get over to... That other fuse right over there. So what I'm gonna do... So I'm going to... Activate this TV. I'm gonna go. I'm... I'm... Stopping from moving, but he was still moving. Okay, so hitting Tab... Uh, tells you where all of the TVs are. Which is really helpful, actually. I have an idea. Did that walk? Yes, it did. Nice. Locker? Please? Okay. He actually lost me. Which is nice. I'm hiding here. That doesn't make noise, somehow. Am I gonna see him walk past? Because I want him to go away. Let's get out. There's BB. There's a TV right there. So once I get this, turn on that TV. Unlock the second safe room. That better give me another checkpoint. Why can't I turn this on? Jesus. Okay, we know what that is. Don't get me. Don't get me. Don't get me. Don't get me. Stop. I'm gonna get into this locker. Wait. Oh. Right up, left down. Okay, so... Where is all the other ones? Oh. So right... Um... Right... Where's up? Is this up? Okay, so that's up. And then we need this one. No. This one and this one. Yes. You can't get to me, dude. Yes. Nice. I'm gonna turn on this. What? Here I go. Here I go.  Don't know what this is. Can I jump? Jesus Christ, I can jump. I think this is some scary dude. Make sure to finish five levels to unlock the third safe room. Never allow the wooden one to see you. The who now what? You can hear a softer breathing before it checks. What? This game just throws you into random situations that doesn't really explain what's going on. Like this. Oh, okay. Okay. Cool. Cool, cool, cool, cool. And now it's off. Okay.  I can't jump while I slide. Ugh. I can't get that one. Come on, game. I don't even know how I did that. Oh, almost got it. Almost got it. I did it. The game is frozen. Ooh, screw you, game. I got that. Oh, we got to close out. Ugh, thanks for telling me that, game. I don't know what that did. Oh, that opened this. Oh, I'm back with these guys. Oh, you're kidding. If I didn't get a checkpoint, can I turn this on? There we go. Okay. I am quite flabbergasted. Okay, let's go. Staff only. I'm guessing that this is it. Can I put on the hot hat? I don't trust this. What's this? Ew, it's a lever. Can I pull it? What is this? Turn the switch? Nope. I got to break five gas pipes. Okay. Sure, game. Well, at least we know where some of them are. It doesn't even reset my TVs. Are you kidding me? Thanks. Oh, F. Give me something. Give me anything. No locker down that way. That's good to know. I just want to say that there are no TVs out this way, so that's good. Break. Break. Snap. Snap. I guess that's it. Oh, F.U. Mangle. Oh, come on, Mangle. Okay, good. I'm glad that you can hide from Mangle if they get out. They better disappear, though.  See ya. See ya. Peace. All right, I think I know where the other ones are. I want to try and low him. Okay. TV. Oh, that's not where I want you to be. Unless... Nope. God, are you kidding me? It's a ridiculous game. Come on. No clue where BB is. Oh, F.U. Mangle. I made it. I made it. I made it. I made it. Okay. So we know where the pipes are. We know that one's in the bathroom. We know that one is actually right in front of us. And I'm sure there's going to be one near the office. If I can get to the office, then I can turn on the TV. Also, I really like how the axe does not come with me into the locker. Let's try this. Mangle, please do not appear.  What do I do about you? I can't sneak past you, can I?  Are you kidding me? I literally... Oh my God. Are you kidding me, game? Okay, I'm going to quit to the menu. There better be a continue option. Great. I've lost my pipe progress, but at least I'm not stuck anymore, game. The thing is, there's so many long corridors that he can spot you in. It's ridiculous. Got a collectible again. Also, I believe this was another T-Jock mechanic with the going around the pizzeria with an axe, working pipes. Jesus! Why wasn't he running after me? Why didn't I get the sound cue of him running after me? That was weird. Finally. Oh my God. Dude, this guy is annoying. It's freak. Go away. Just go away. And I have to get back to that switch.  I don't know where this last pipe is. There you go.  I even said that it was probably going to be in the office. Ugh. Okay, well, I'm going to wait for Mangle to go. This TV. And I'm going to hopefully get the last two pipes because I've been on this game for a lot longer than I honestly wish. Mangle, you... Dude. Really? The lights didn't flash. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Why can't he still move? Dude, the game FN tells you that you can stop him from moving, but he still moves. Jesus Christ, dude. Thank God. That did not reset my, uh, my TVs didn't. No. Great. Please, dude. Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay, I have an idea. I am going to wait until he's over there. Right now. Turn this on. Go get the last pipe in the bathroom. And then, I don't know, go from there. There's a BB. Is that him? Oh, FN Mangle. I'm dead. Are you kidding me? The freaking thing messed me up because I thought I didn't hit it. This game is really frustrating. Like, it looks great. But the actual game itself is really frustrating to play. Okay.  I swear to God. Please, game. I better be close to the end. I better be close to the end because I haven't played this for so FN long. I'm sorry, what? I ran into safety. The lost children are gone. You have escaped. How did I escape? I have many questions. How did I escape from flicking a lever? What? My doggos do not agree at all. That was ridiculous. Local haunted house burns down. Oh, so this was a haunted house. Okay, I get it. Oh no, sons. Death ruled a suicide, says police. All right. Well, we got some extra stuff, so let's check out the extras.  So I just checked and I was recording for an hour and a half. Just to let you guys know. Okay, animatronics. Let's have a look. So sorry if this video is really long. That is why. Okay, so Rotten Bear is this guy. It's actually kind of hard to see these guys in the extras menu. But I mean, it does look nice. Bloom Boy. Ugh. Yeah, this guy. This man's mango. Very terrifying. This is probably the creepiest one. And then the wooded one. I didn't fully understand this one. They were just kind of thrown in there for one minigame, and then they were gone behind the scenes. Let's have a look. Oh, that's creepy. Okay, here it is. Oh, so it's just like the models. What is that? Jesus. Oh, really nice. There's BB. There's some early sketches, I'm guessing. Collectibles. We got three, I think. I'm scared to see how many there were. Oh, I can't. What? Okay, they're neat. Overall, I think the game was all right. It looks great. The character designs, they look great. It's just the game, at some points, was really frustrating to deal with. It was short. The puzzles were surprisingly easy, actually. But yeah, just some parts were just really frustrating, and I don't know if that was the game's fault. I don't know if it was my fault misunderstanding some things, but I know that game jams don't offer a whole lot of time to make games, especially when you want it to look this good. So, you know, I'm forgiving the game for that. Again, it looks great. The characters look great. It's just there were some parts where I was having just a little bit of trouble, but that was broken dreams. I'm happy we got it done in one episode, though I don't quite know how long this episode is going to be. I recorded it for over an hour and a half, so that's going to be fun to edit. Anyways, thanks for watching. I'll see you all on the flip side. Goodbye.


Good evening and welcome back to the first time home by a show. I'm your host, Esti Klaasen. I'm sitting with the absolutely amazing Toray Jack, entrepreneurship, author, property mogul, the list is endless. Good evening, TJ. How are you? Esti, how are you? I'm very well. Thanks and welcome to everyone else who's watching us and greetings to your viewers. What is TJ doing to ensure that there is going to be a legacy left behind? Oh, dude, there's quite a lot. We have time. Oh, Lord, where do I start from? So there's a great book that I like to read very often. And within this book, it says that if you have to leave a legacy, your legacy should surpass the third generation from you. Right. So where's the third generation? So I'm number one, my kids are number two. Their kids is number three. So what am I doing to ensure that the legacy surpass them, not touch them, surpass? Right. So number one, I now that I'm in business, I have structured things. And when I say structure, I just didn't go out and buy a house. Yeah. Right. I've also ensured that when I'm buying my house, where is it sitting? Who owns that house? So S.T., I don't own anything, right? My trust owns everything. So the house stays within the trust. So if ever I die, SARS is never going to touch anything in my estate because it's in the trust. So the trust is going to live for a longer time on the terms that I've put in. Not on the terms that my kids have put in or their kids, but on my terms. So I am crafting the generation. It's intentional. Yeah. That's number one. Number two, I've got a business. Within this business, I don't own anything. I control everything. Control is power, fever. And with that, everything again sits within my trust. And whatever that is happening within the business, when I die, it's going to continue within the same part of that generation. So when I started doing properly the correct way, I then started doing, I started researching, what can I do, which is that's intentional, that can help me to get to my goal? What's my goal? Legacy. But how do you do it? What is the practical? How do you move from one step to the next step to the next step? And you know, when I talk about all these trustings, what not? A lot of people then want to go out there, create the structures, ha, ha, ha. Five years they've got the structures, nothing has happened. I'm the reverse. I actually started having structures not so long ago. Yeah. So I'm a doer. So I'm like, let's do it. So I started buying, buying, buying. And then somewhere along the line, my legal team was like, you got a problem. Yeah. You're talking about creating legacy, but the way you're doing business, it doesn't do it. You won't get there. Yeah. What's going to happen is that if you're dying, size is going to come in, there's an estate, they're going to take X percentage, is that what you want?  But how can we do it? They educated me on how to do it. And then I started implementing it, whilst I'm in the game. So we speak about people going back into go through for conferences, go read books and attend whatever podcasts and you know, get information to grow you. I'm anti that. Right. I preach it, but I'm anti that as well. I might be saying, TJ, but you contradict yourself. Yeah. Learn, take action. Okay. Right, because if you're just learning, you're just in information junkie, that's what you are. Now, being information junkie, what are you going to do?  Okay, how many do you have? Nothing. Nothing, yeah. But you have all the information in the world. But you haven't applied any of that. 100%. And I'm also all for real, loved experiences. How can you talk about something if you haven't experienced it yourself? 100%. So from creating my legacy as team, it's about putting the structures in place. It's about leaving them now whilst I'm still alive. And over and above that, within our business that's called M5 Property Addicts, we have actually created a school. Right. Which is called M5 Property Varsity. And within there, I take time every quarter. Whatever I've learned, we put it in there as a course and anyone who's out there, they will come in and they'll learn. My view is that that won't die. Maybe the processes might change, but the foundation, the principles of how you can buy a property correct way and things like that, that won't die. So anyone else out there who's wanting to do it in the correct way or the TJ way, they can go and learn. And my view is that it's creating a greater legacy. I've got a community and within that community, people come in and we plug in. And besides just creating a camaraderie, we're always talking about property. And the other thing that I've done, I've written a book. Yeah, that was actually one of my questions. Sorry to cut you off TJ, is about how are you giving back to the youth? And you just answered my question, is that you need to keep recycling knowledge. 100%. So for some of the stuff that I learn, you know, I'm a trained change management person. So I look at complex stuff and it works in my head and I'm like put it out there in the simplest manner. That's how I'm trained. And with that ST, I look at some concepts in the US, in the UK and things like that. And when I was starting off, I was looking at those things, I'm like does these things apply in South Africa? And yes, they do. But maybe the naming is just different. The principles are the same. So with that, wherever I am, whether I'm at a conference, I'm talking to you now, I really like to take some of those things that are making other people win and how can I just dilute it into a digestible manner to my grandmother? Yeah. Is it Einstein that says if you can't explain it to a five-year-old, you don't know it well enough? That's it. And that's exactly what you're doing. And you spoke briefly, but just before we go to the book, this is the first time home by a show. And I want to talk about your first home. I want to talk about the first time you did this. No, let's not talk about that. Come on, TJ. Was it a bad? Was it a fun experience? Was it, I think it's so important because like I mentioned, we have a lot of young viewers who come in and tune into the show. Right. And TJ from Property Mogul himself is so, it's educational and we can avoid making some of the mistakes. Well, look, as I think for me, I was in love with the time and still am in love right now. And my then-girlfriend, who is now my wife, she had bought one or two properties on her own. I had done the same, but we didn't have a house. We were just about to get married, but we didn't have a house. Yeah. Right?  So I want to talk about that house. Sure. Because I think that was our first house between my wife and I. And we went right round searching for properties and we had a budget. And that budget was an amount that the bank had given us to say that we qualify for X. Right. But we never looked back into, but what can we afford? Right? And I think that was the biggest mistake. So we went with what the bank can give us and we started looking at areas. So let's look at a million rand. Right. And we said, we want to stay in the north and everybody wants to stay in the north. Yeah. And we looked at pricing and we're like, oh, a million rand would give us a two bed. Then we started looking to different areas. And in a different area, a million rand was giving you a four bed. Right. So we're like, no, hold on. Let's get more space because we want to have kids. Yeah, we have a family. We want, yes. Yeah. And there we are. We changed our mindset from the north. I was like, I'm still like the north, but my wife was until the north. So we ended up having a compromise in where we stay. And which was kind of like in the northwest. And we bought a place for a million rand. However, I think this is where the lesson comes through for me. Yeah. We bought a house and that house, we used to call it the red house. I didn't like it. It's the house that I now stay in. Yeah. And basically we bought it on the basis of does it fits what our basic needs are and what we are going to do in the next five to 10 years. Right. So we've been in that house for 10 years. That house is saved as well. Yeah. However, let's go back. Could we afford the house? At the time. At the time, yes. With what I know now, no. Okay. Right? Was the bank wrong to give us one million? No, they're not. The bank sells money. Right. That's their job to sell money. So for that reason, they give you the top part based on regulations. And if you are to take that, what happens if my wife get retrenched? What happens if I get retrenched? So we never looked at those dynamics. Had we done that, I honestly think that we could have gone for a 500,000-pound, you know, looking at the benchmark of a million rent. Why am I saying that, especially with what I know now, is because I would have looked at the mitigations of if my wife get retrenched. And by the way, I've got retrenched three times also staying in the house. Right. So this is real life. Right. But once we are talking about that, ST, the thing that we then want to jump in to say, it has saved us well in the last 10 years, but when we bought it, what was the purpose? So here's the thing. We don't understand, or should I say, at that time, I didn't understand. Right. Asset and liabilities. Yeah. Basically put, assets needs to put money in your pocket. That's what an asset is. And liabilities is something that's taking money out. Exactly. So when we bought this house, immediately it became a liability. And it still is my biggest liability at the moment. Hey, TJ, you bought this property 10 years ago, so it's not really, it is. Because it's taking money out of my pocket. Yeah. Right? Now, with what I know now, ST, I could pause and say, I qualified for a million rent. Could we have, with what I know now, could we have bought in a different area? Maybe a further west, maybe east, maybe south, I don't know. But what would have a million rent given us to create an asset? Okay. With what I know now today? Yeah. Because with what I know now today, ST, I've got some of my students, they actually live in a property for free. So they go out there, they buy the property, but because the property comes with more living space than what they are using, they're still using the one million, but maybe there's got a cottage, another cottage, that cottage is 5,000, that one is 5,000. It's paying the bond, so they don't pay the bond. Yeah. But they're staying in the property, or potentially they're the ones staying in the cottage and somebody else is in the main route. Yes, in the property, yeah. So with what I know now, I think I would have really gone through that option and I'm like, why didn't I do that? But I did buy that first property, we still live in it now, a beautiful house, it has really become a good home for us. We've changed a whole lot of things to make it fit for purpose for us, comfortable for us and our kids. One of my kids got some allergies and things like that, so we've made that home to be like that. However, ST, with what I know now, and the reason why I'm emphasizing on the fact with what I know now is, before you do buy your first property, kind of like go out there and find the education. Right. Why are you buying this property? It's not just about living in it, it's not about it's the red house, like it was for me. It's not about, it's closer to my transport to go away. Yeah. For me, when I now look at a house, like, okay, fine, now that I am where I am, my next house, ST, is about, I want a house where I can go in, it's got my office, it's got a wing of my office because I want to work at home, it's a choice. But my business is going to pay for that rent. That's number one, right? So I can write that off. Number two, I also want to have a place where I can stay in a very nice, secure environment, but I want to have a wing so that when my partners are traveling through from wherever they are coming through, they stay with me. Why am I doing that? I want to create a symbiotic relationship with my partners. Exactly. Right? But they will have to pay for it, whether it's an Airbnb, formula, whatnot. But the point is that I am crafting intentionally the next house and how I want to do it to make sure that it's not a liability for me. That's it, yeah. That's it. I like that. There was so much information that you just gave me and came at the very right time in my life, TJ. Let me tell you that. Let's move to the book. Let's talk a little bit about the book. I read it briefly. And I want to talk about, you've told us a lot about your journey and how you got to where you are. And the book, I think, obviously explains, I mean, the title is From Bad Debt to Property Mogul in two years. Yeah. Let's talk about that journey.  No, so that's a long time. Is that a long time? It's a long time. It's a long time. I've got one of my friends who's called Joey Evans. And Joey Evans is a, you finish the Dakar race.  So it really depends on which side of the fence you're sitting on. So yeah, the book, I think that it was just me pouring out my heart on the fact that if I can do it, I'm of the view that I live in the same South Africa. Anyone else can do it. So the book is really written from a perspective of, this is who I am from Tarai Anon, son of the Anon. And who has no backup, who has no foundation and who is coming into the system of being employed, who is wanting more, who loses money, and how do you get out of that? And from there, when you're to partner up with people, it's an open secret. I've never, like all these businesses that I've got and the properties that I've got, I've never put any of my own money in it yesterday. It's all other people's money. I've got a certain skill that I've got. And within that certain skill, people come to me and say, TJ, here's a million rand, here's 500,000. We want to get involved with what you're doing. So that's my skill. But what's your skill, right? What's your thing, right? So if you're to figure that out, the rest in terms of how you can win is pretty simple. Easy, yeah. Right? And the book I've written in that way so that whoever you are out there, you can then replicate the secret source, right? It's a recipe that I've given you and you can go out there, implement it and make it win in your own area. It's not about property only. Exactly. And I think that's so important is, what is your thing? Finding out what your skill is, what you can bring to the table, because earlier you gave an example of, there was a time where you couldn't put money in as an investment, but you could put your skill down as an investment, you know? Not everything holds monetary value to it. So find out what your thing is and I think that's what I want the viewers to go home with tonight, but I'm not done. There's so much I wanna talk to you about. You won Invest of the Year, right? Yes. And I wanted to find out, and after this I have one more question, which is completely off topic, but you won Invest of the Year and you've told us your story in depth and I wanna know what that prize means for you and the sacrifices that went into being the Invest of the Year. Yeah, so Invest of the Year, I think it's not even about Invest of the Year. Any accolade that's going to come through it's something that you're probably not expecting. I wasn't expecting it. And for me, Invest of the Year was, it came at the right time. And the reason why I say that is is because at that time I was still trying to figure out do I leave my job or do I continue running the business as a side hustle? And then I got nominated. But I got nominated also and this was something, a lot of people don't know this, but people within my clique does. And I got nominated along people that had trained me. Oh, wow. So when I got nominated, I got a shock. I'm like, well, this is great. And I think I'm gonna stand at the nomination because the guys that have trained me, they're going to win because they've been in the game for a long time. And then on the night, I get to win it. I was like, whoa. But the whole came from a very humble space esteem with the fact that number one, I was being recognized with fellow people that practice what I do. Right. And with the fact that they were recognizing me, they also understand all the struggles of getting to where I was on that day. And also, number two is winning such kind of an award. It's not a competition, but it's just recognition. And for me, what it did for me at that time, I was ready to resign. And over and above being ready to resign, I was ready to take on a bigger challenge because I realized at the time that my peers were seeing that I'm doing great. Exactly. But I wasn't. And then it gave me that stepping stone on like, dude, you're amazing. Yeah. Right? And I get that step. I'm like, I'm amazing. But I'm like, no, but last week I wasn't. And this week I am. So I'm like, but how best can I be more amazing? The following week. And I realized that amazing is only amazing at that time when you have achieved it, but it's gone. But what's the next thing now? Right. So in my core team, there's two ways that we're always talking about esteem. Well, that I talk about. What is the next thing? Right. We have achieved, we have achieved right now. But what's the next thing? Because you can't leave in your past successes. Hey, we built, we built a complex, yay. We bought a 10 million round building, yay. Okay. What is the next? But what is the next thing? Yeah. Our life grows by taking the next step. And the moment we stop taking the next step, we stop. And for me, the book is the book. I've written it. I'm very proud that it's going out there. It's helping other people to get into the next step. I get lots of emails, many texts, and people that have started buying properties on their own. In small towns, small towns have never been. And that's another bigger win as close as winning the investor of the year. Right. It helps someone that I don't know. I might never meet them, but their families have been impacted with what I've done. And that's okay. Yeah. That's okay.  It's a priceless one. And I enjoyed that. But going forward, SD, I am taking this more intentional. So I am actually creating a clicker people where we can drive to bigger goals together. It's intentional. We meet regularly. We are pushing our own boundaries. Your boundary, SD, could be one property today. Can we push it together? Get you into a one. And tomorrow, can we get you into a five? Right. Because you have overcome boundary number one. And that's me in a nutshell, SD. I was going to ask you a completely different question, but you gave me an amazing question. So for TJ, last question, what is the next thing? Yeah. When I came into property, I was trying to find a way to get out of there. And property worked for me in two ways. But it didn't work in multiple ways. Yeah. The first one was, it worked for me because when you buy a property, SD, if you're buying in the correct manner in the right way, the government from a tax perspective, they can pay you instead of being an employee and you pay the government. I'm not anti the government. I'm just saying that understand the rules of the game. That's what I'm saying. Put more money in your pocket. So that's number one. Number two, the moment you buy properties, you're buying correctly, you get what is called equity. So you're getting, for some of my properties, this building that we're sitting on, we bought it for 11 million. The value is 16 million. So by just buying it, I bought 4 million. Right. So I'm 4 million richer before I bought it. There is no any other asset that does that for you, right? So what does it mean? It means that. And I think don't be scared with the numbers. We can take these numbers to as low as possible to say, I bought a two bed one bath for 160,000, but it's worth 500. The difference there is your equity. So for me, ST, when I looked at property, I said, it can give me more money. It might not be hard cash on the table, but it's my balance sheet. So I am getting more money by working as opposed to, if you're exchanging your time for a job, and you're getting paid, the value is different. So in terms of growing your legacy, if you're exchanging your time here, but if you're buying assets here, how soon can you get there? So for me here, it makes sense in the property space. And above that, I can have tenants on top of it, and they pay me regularly. And out of that, I have food on the table. And there's something so powerful you said to me just before the show about the system. And I said, we need to change the system. What did you say? There is no system. Yeah, so the whole thing about the system, ST, is that my view, and this is Taurai, you can quote this Taurai thing, the system is you, right? And we live in South Africa, and I just want to be as blank as I can, and to the point, we live in South Africa, it's a multi-racial country. My wife is mixed, so I've been exposed to both black, white, Indian, color, you name it. Some of my business partners are within that space. I am, the way I'm trained, and the way my head works, I observe people. And when I observe, I start bringing in the stuff out. It's a good thing. It's a good skill and it's a bad skill. Now, with that ST, if you're really looking at a system, we can look at a path that is a system. It is a system, right? We long passed a path, but the system of a path that still lives. However, it is a choice to then live within that system. Why do I say that? I choose to have Jewish friends today. It's a choice. I choose to have white business partners. It's a choice. I choose to have friends from Cameroon. It's a choice. From Ghana, it's a choice. Or how do you have that? Hey, you're on social media all the time. Why don't you DM them? Yeah. Right? Why is it a choice for me? It is a choice for me, because I can understand who they are. Hey, you guys, you're on the Jewish thingy. Why are you having a Burmitzvah? What's a Burmitzvah? Tell me.  Okay, nobody ever did that to me. So can I now create my own Burmitzvah? Yeah. I can for my child. Yeah, why not? It's a plant that has been seeded. It's a seed that's been now planted in my head that I can go implement tomorrow, isn't it?  So for me, the system is you.  You decide you have the choices to define those, that system, and you have the choice to break it. Right. Apart, totally. Mm-hmm. Right? And create another one if you want. Yeah. So the next thing for me is that when I came into the property business, it was solving a problem. And that problem was getting me out of debt. And when you buy properties, it gives you a couple of things, which is number one, you end equity, you know, you buy the property, and also you've got a business on top where you can rent out the property and things like that. But for me, I've achieved this now. I can do this. I can buy properties, good deals in my sleep. I can figure it out, boom, we're gone. The really next big thing for me is that we're figuring all of this esteem. Property for me, it's a vehicle to get where I want to get to. So as a vehicle, my vehicle doesn't just work on its own. It's working as I buy, it's giving me money. It's working as it lives on, it's giving me more money. But now there is a business that's on top of that. And this is the business that I'm after. So the next big thing for me is now esteem is, I've already created multiple businesses out of this. Student accommodation, we run that very well. And the aquaponics, we do what is called aquaponics. It's a farming system that we do, and we're doing that. And then the other part is our no-mountainating that we do. But esteem, the big thing now is scaling this. I've scaled it. I mean, we've got 300 students, 200 tenants, 42 employees. I've scaled it from a guy who's coming as an underdog. Yeah. But I can scale it bigger. The big thing for me, esteem is, there is people out there who are like me, who knows that they can do it, but they just don't know how. Right. The big thing for me is, I've actually started putting up a program together where people like me, who have the hunger, they can do this. They don't know how. We're putting all of this together. For one year, we run together. But for me, it's not just about running to create the business. There's more to it. There's the family to it. There's the you improving you. There is the running of the business. But I don't want people who are going to come in and they're going to struggle in terms of how do they manage to accommodate it? How do they, all of those things have already got them. Now it's about, can I create a community of people that understand the mission of creating a legacy, that understand the fact that they want to create a business for themselves? It's not about business, they are business. And that understand that they can do more. Right. And that's what, that's the next big thing for me because not only will I be able to teach and give, but I'll be creating a force, Estie, of like-minded people who are going into business, stronger in the head, financially stronger. With that, I think we can change the face of South Africa or even Africa. Who knows the wealth? Yeah. Thank you so much, TJ. And that's exactly where I want to close it off. And to the viewers at home, I have a question. What choices are you making to keep fulfilling, to keep fulfilling yourself with knowledge and educating yourselves to be in different circles or just let's think about the choices we're making. And that's how we leave you this evening at the first time home by a show. I've been Estie Klaassen and this is to write Jack also known as TJ. Thank you so much. See you guys again next week. Same time, same place. Take care.


Well, I feel like I am I in the minority. I think the community did a good job on the voting I think community killed the voting think they did good, right?  They got I mean you got Patterson, right? That's where you got it. Just this kid. Oh my So like I knew the answers were now I wanted Kamara because he's a receiving back I wanted but then like That's why I mean, I'm not in love with Patterson because he's not a receiving back early I mean, I agree if you're not gonna use the abilities, which I really haven't you know But I will tell you that like McAfrey with no ability is still way better than like Adrian Peterson See see Dude shout out to Patterson though, man. I believe he was that now this is crazy. I Think Patterson was the 14th pick in the draft if I remember correctly I might be cracked out of Tennessee. I remember him cuz I don't I just remembered a Tennessee Y receiver And he went to the Vikings and he was gonna be a Y receiver But he really wasn't that cracked at Y receiver like he was kind of bullsh** and he's kind of reinvented himself And he stayed in a league kick return or running back.  Oh my god I'll be like yo, holy sh**. Y'all know I don't lose.  He ain't run commit that time Like nobody throws the motion out wheel and then I hate this Like he really tries to milk to sh** out crazy. Like he tries his hardest to milk. I do.  I don't know why you go draw here, right? Oh my god I should have did two contains. I really should have I feel like he just runs right here. I really do Griffin? Nice, bro Yup, you ain't got me with the Red Zone scissors again. You're not getting me with Red Zone scissors again Never again. It's noise noise three. I don't know how he got out of the pocket right there. I really don't like Just just just just blind as a bat. I mean dude, can I get a good throw and and and a pick? There's literally no way. Oh my god, dude, like This literally was I mean he had to throw it though Like he had to and none else he could have did get sacked or throw the ball like just no way like the game's over We just like I'm guarding the running back. He gets the running back every time Every time I notice of course he gets time to do this I just know where you got time to do that. He really is the king of rolling out. He is Pick he high ball dead. He do that regularly as a touchdown. He got me right there Honestly, I need to make sure he can't roll out to the bunch side for real for us That's what I got to do look he not stopping read option. Well, I mean what the play How does nobody get there like you got to be kidding me like you gotta be kidding me Madden Just the perfect block into the because if this is just disgusting how he scores is just I just I don't know I don't know how he scores. I have no clue how he scores points No clue just the perfect block on the sideline.  I forgot he went and found a new defense. I forgot he did that for God That's what I mean. I don't know how kids ever scrambled up the middle of the field on me. How do you ever do it? I don't know how they ever do it Percy there we go. I feel like I feel like I've had the ball for for six plays this game Literally, I thought I've had the ball for six plays Bro, can somebody get some pass rush right now, dude. Somebody rush the Cuz like there's just like there's no way And I look at chat and get a delay a game Best contain of all time. It's sick how this kid plays Just great. Just great right there man. Just stop on a dime for me Nice. Oh my god. They almost tried me. They almost tried me almost this. I mean, it's not the worst He and he always like he will always Go lurk the deepest route Sean in the game. No way you drop that Holders no way. That's a brain fart. That's just a brain fart Hmm fumble that I just don't see a running back coming out right there.    No, we gotta stop. We get a pick I really only got that fluke one at one pick. He shouldn't have scored He shouldn't have scored in the first half that play before half was complete bulls never mind He's just gonna run around and throw anything in the world. Like dude Taylor Mace. Come on, man I'm just like pissed at this.   I got I just got a base in line. I have to wear my icons go to Hmm, I should have called timeout right there. I really should have Fumble. Oh, no, he picks it up and gets yards.  I have no idea. I don't know what play he runs here I have I literally don't know pick it up off like Like oh my god, I tried to run to the court like it was just cover for like I just don't know how to stop I don't know how to stop like bro.   Hendricks is playing the best like Hendricks is like Hendricks is playing the best game in his life right now Who's X? The shirt dude. He's like running with it. So like do y'all see how he users? It's like y'all don't see how he uses dude. He really is like just he just bales on the biggest Yeah, he pulled up by the time I'm right Yeah, by the time I'm running for my life like the yeah He not bro. He don't bro. He takes his user to the bar high. Yo, we're user at those in the bar. Hi, bro What's up partner? Oh, we can't we got to get a touchdown on that need a better throw right there really? Now we jump boys and now we jump GG's GG's part two That was a crazy game. GG's bro.  Y'all don't know what the cuz Do y'all understand bro like y'all don't understand pre snap like y'all just look at the field So I know it's covered I know it's covered three and I know that he has to he has to run with the post streak post He has to run with it. He has to So now it's about what can I throw against his zones while his user watch his user every play watch him This is what he does every single play. Look how far down the field he is He does it every play like he literally this is how he users. He doesn't lurk. He doesn't bait He just runs down the field Bom bom bom now this time I missed the read because I saw he manned up the tight end He manned the tight end. I knew he could beat him but look at Hendricks like he plays outside Then he plays in Like I thought he was a purple zone because you got to understand that most of the time you just assume There's a flat you always assume. There's a purple zone, right? So when I see this look right here I'm like, all right.  He's a flat, right? So a is gonna be his man, but then Hendricks came back over the middle like oh, I guess he was in the yellow zone Right, but I missed the corner out. I could have hit the corner out there But I saw that it during the placid. All right, that makes no sense now. I'm gonna look for the corner I'm gonna run the same play because I know it takes his user out of the field I know that his user is bailing. I got anything else. I want against computer defense I want the tight end again. He doesn't beat him He's about right here. That's where y'all wanted me. No way. There's no way. Look at it. Y'all wanted me to hit Look at his user. What does he get off it? Now y'all watch this for real y'all are y'all are the worst players in the world Let me tell you when I stopped going for the post when his user is at 30 yards down the field I literally just don't look at it anymore. Do y'all understand that like Look at like look at his user. Look at his user. Look at where his user is. I Want to go to the tight end here or or I wanted to go to running back But I didn't know the running back to get could get 10 yards I wanted the tight end to keep going but this this Hendricks was ballin for him in his yellow zone I wanted the tight end to get right here, but then honestly, I was like, I don't trust him enough to do that I was like if I trust him, he's gonna run and I'm gonna do a pick So I didn't trust the tight end. He's look where his user is.  I'm already out of there and he's the thing is he didn't even really stop Like he didn't even really stop Like come on boy. Y'all are like come on dude. The post is naked. Yeah naked for sure