So there's a lot of value in even doing low reps, but thinking like a bodybuilder. You're right. That just takes so much more skill and discipline to lower their weight because a guy like you knows he can get onto the bar right now and squat 450 and you want to move and you're like, today's a heavy day.  But yet there's ton of value and you actually, and by the way, because the muscle doesn't recognize it's 275 or 4050. It recognizes the intensity that you're taking towards it. You can bring that same 450 pound intensity with 275. So that is in a sense, I think, still valuable to train that way. Sometimes I think the biggest key takeaway for most of listeners is understanding that whether you believe it or not, you probably identify with one group more than the other and learning to move into the other mindset and learn how to do that, train that way, I think will provide you tremendous value. Here's a muscle building tip. Don't try to move the weights. Rather, focus on challenging the muscle. This was actually told to us by a good friend, Ben Pakolsky, very smart guy, bodybuilder knows what he's talking about. And I agree. I agree. I think that's a very good tactic when it comes. I love that piece of advice, but you have to break that down a little bit, like the what does that mean and why is that important for certain people that are focused, why are people that are focused? And this is I think this tip comes from somebody who's really focused on trying to sculpt the body, build muscle. That's their bodybuilders are experts at this, right? Now, this doesn't mean that trying to just move the weight doesn't also build muscle. It does getting stronger generally does help build muscle. But this is really, really muscle building focused. Bodybuilders are excellent at this where they'll take a weight. And let's say it's a weight they could do 20 reps with. They'll be able to get 10 reps with that weight and make it feel like that 10 reps is extremely intense just by focusing and concentrating on the target muscles, the squeeze and the stretch. And you can do this. And what's cool about this, especially as you become more advanced, is that it lowers the risk of resistance training, right? So rather than continuing to add weight at some point, it's probably smarter to try to make the weight feel heavier. And your body really doesn't know the difference if you do this the right way. Well, it also makes a huge difference when you're trying to sculpt a physique and you're working on specific body parts, right? So if I if I if I get a client to understand that and let's say a client comes to me and they really want to develop their chest. Yeah. And that's that's a that's a primary focus. And maybe they have great delts already and great arms already. And it's just like that, man, I have this lagging chest and I really want to focus on that. This is where this piece of information becomes really valuable, especially when performing a movement like a bench press, which is a compound lift that you've got shoulders and triceps. You've got all these other muscles that are involved in that movement. And if for most of your life, you were just trying to get stronger and lift more weight, lift more weight. Well, then your body is going to move in a manner in order to just get that weight up, whether that be using momentum or you using all your other secondary muscles to help it out. And you see this sometimes. Sometimes I used to be able to see it in a guy who I would see bench presses really well. And then he had these massive delts and triceps with a kind of a weak looking chest like that right away to me is a red flag that when that guy lifts, he's just trying to get that weight up as much as he can. And he's allowing those secondary muscles to take over a lot of the movement instead of thinking about the muscle we're trying to develop in that exercise and trying to make it challenging for the chest. And what that requires you to do many times and why it's hard for people is to lower the weight is to drop the weight down and then make it feel heavy and target that muscle. That's right. And focus on squeezing that muscle and fatiguing that muscle during the movement versus I know I can do another 25 pounds. Yeah, the problem is when you start getting up to you closer to your max load, it's harder to stay focused on a specific muscle. Instead, the body just wants to get the weight up. And so I love that piece of it. Totally.  You don't want to keep adding weight because what you're doing is you're going to continue to use this whatever this this recruitment pattern is that you've developed. That's effective. It's effective at lifting heavy weight, but it's not developing the muscles that you really want. And like you said, you lower the weight, change your technique, change the feel, focus on what the glutes do during the squat. The glutes are hip extension. What does that feel like? How can I squeeze the glutes? How can I make this more of a glute exercise? And that often means you have to go lighter. Usually I'd say 90 percent of the time it means you go lighter, but then make the weight feel heavier. And bodybuilders are so good at this. They're so good. When you watch a really good bodybuilder train, that's what they're doing. And oftentimes people look at bodybuilders, really experienced ones, and they go, you know, that guy's 260 pounds and he's benching like 200 pounds. Like how's that? As it makes sense, he must be really weak. Well, no, he's just really good and making 200 pounds. He's real good at that mind, muscle connection. Totally. Yeah. Like the whole time under tension is a completely different mindset. And it's something that's it's cool that we have the ability to completely shift the variable and make something more challenging by just, you know, like focusing more exclusively on which muscles can I feel firing off more and how can I really, you know, get get even like more hyper focus in that direction versus just moving weight and trying to get through the exercise. Can I really grind my way through this and intensify it further? And it's it's a cool thing that we have the ability to do that in contrast to just, you know, really just focusing on getting through the movement. Now, in a perfect world to the point, Sal, you were also making is you have the ability to do both. Yes. Right. So in a perfect world, now, what ends up happening for most people is you tend to be one or the other. And I'll use I'm going to use Justin and I as an example, because I think in our 20s, when we were lifting together, we're perfect examples of being the polar opposite here. I was the bodybuilder guy who was moving the lighter way really, really good at the mind, muscle and just it was incredibly good at organizing his tire body to move more weight. So he was much stronger than I was on things like the bench press. But the way we move the weight is was so different. And what you tend to do is or what a lot of clients do is especially this is even experienced lifters that have been lifting for five, six, ten years is they stick to a way of lifting always. If you identified more as the bodybuilder guy like me, you always kind of lift that way. And I never lifted like a strongman. I never tried to do a squat or a bench press and just move as much weight. I always moved it like a bodybuilder. And someone like Justin would probably admit that for most of his career, he just tried to move it like an athlete, just move as much way as possible. Never really moved it like a bodybuilder. But there's tremendous value in making that crossover and learning how to do both and then actually integrating that into your programming on depending on what you. What I noticed with that was just how to make those micro adjustments because I was more connected to muscles that were involved in the lift, where you know if there's any kind of a shifting, lateral shift and kind of twisting, whatever I could correct and like actually get connected to the to the muscles that will help stabilize and make my lift more effective and efficient in that vertical line. So, you know, at least from a technical perspective, like being able to have access in control of your muscles more. Like I feel like that really helped enhance. Oh yeah, the value there's value in each, right? The value in learning how to move more weight is you become very efficient with your movement, you can transfer your strength in a real way.  So there's lots of carryover, right? Now, what's the value in connecting to muscles? Well, you can develop target muscles. You can avoid imbalances. The risk factor for injury is real low. Like, here's one thing that I'll say all day long. Uh, and, you know, we, people can try arguing this, but it's totally true. Forget all, everything else I just said, the person who trains to feel muscles, they've got incredible longevity with their training. You see guys like this train 70s, 80s, 90s, never really hurt themselves, always develop a nice looking physique and don't really, they have a low risk of injury because they're really focused on feeling the muscle. Whereas the person that's crazy damaging on the joints. Yes. The person trying to move as much weight as possible to higher risk, right? So there's that, right? But then there's not the carryover of the functionality, but it is funny when I would train a athlete in the gym versus when I would train somebody who's always done bodybuilding.  You ever get them to try and do like a kettlebell swing or, or a clean with a barbell, squat shoulder, raise, it's so, it's so weird. Right? It's like you could tell that their muscles are working like one after another after another segmented. Yeah. Or you try to get like an athlete to row in a way to where we're going to get the rhomboids or let's get the lats really involved or slow down your pull up or your curls. Let's really focus on this, you know, the squeeze. Yes. Right. So it's, it is really, like I said, remember when we all worked out with Ben Picolsky, who's obviously this guy's like, he's bodybuilder, extraordinary. He's an expert on, on mind muscle connection. Okay. And it was funny because we all worked out with him and it was, so it was the three of us and Ben's kind of taking us through a workout. It was really fun, but he kept going back to Justin to change his form. He's just like, oh, just irritated him.  But it was, yeah, it was difficult for me, uh, to, to get in that mindset because it's just, again, that's a totally different skill that obviously he's mastered at the highest level. Yeah. But what I appreciate about you admitting that and talking about that is look how advanced of a lifter you are and experience and you have the knowledge to understand the valuable, but then also that just highlights how much we all tend to gravitate towards a way of training. And there's so much value in learning to be both of these guys, learning how to switch that mindset over. I'm going to train a while like a bodybuilder. I'm going to move the way where I'm not thinking about moving the way I'm thinking about challenging the muscle. And that's how I'm going to train. And that, you know, for the listeners that own, uh, several of our programs and stuff, this is really the difference of how you lift when you're following maps, power lift versus how you lift when you're falling maps, aesthetic. Yeah. If you are following maps, power lift, your mind shifts over into being like someone who's trying to move as much weight. It's not chest day on that's right. It's bench press. Exactly. And that's what you want to be thinking like when you're working in our maps, aesthetic or a map split program, which is more bodybuilder focus, you're trying to challenge the muscle. And so when you choose your weights for those programs, you should have that thought process in mind when you're going. Totally. For me, it's when I do the, uh, the low rep sets. So like fewer exercises, higher sets, uh, and lower reps. In other words, instead of doing like three exercises for shoulders, um, and my rep range being 10 to 15, I'm doing like one, so it's all overhead press and I'm doing like sets of two reps or three reps. When I'm doing the low reps like that, I am not focusing on feeling the shoulders. It's all about moving the weight. It's all about maximizing movement efficiency. When I go into 10, 12, 15, especially 15 plus reps, it's not about movement efficiency for me at least. That's when I'm really trying to focus and squeeze the muscle. Now I in the past would tend to move towards more movement than muscle. Cause I, I'm, I'm almost in the middle with, with what I appreciate, but I'm probably, I lean more towards strength. I think I enjoy that a little more as I've gotten older though. I've appreciated more of feeling the muscle. Why? Lower risk just is like I'm 43 now. I've been working out for a long time, you know, consistently pulling and pushing super heavy weight all the time. I start to feel it. Well, and because of that advice, I'm going to challenge what you just said because, um, I do agree though. I think what you just said is very good general advice for somebody. When you're moving in that lower rep range like that, general good advice. But that being said, to the point you just made right now, as you get older, you start to realize like, man, just move, just trying to move heavy weight sometimes, well, that's when my joint, so there's a lot of value in even doing low reps, but thinking like a bodybuilder. You're right. That just takes so much more skill and discipline to lower their weight. Yes. Because a guy like you knows, he can get onto the bar right now and squat 450 and you want to move and you're like, today's a heavy day. I'm moving triples. Or I could do two really controlled slow reps. Two 25 and you don't want to do that because it gets your ego messes with you a little bit, but yet there's ton of value. And you actually, and by the way, because the, the, the muscle doesn't recognize it's 275 or 4050, it recognizes the intensity that you're taking towards it. Right. You can bring that same 450 pound intensity with 275. So that is in, in a sense, I think still valuable to train that way. Sometimes I think the biggest key takeaway for most of the listeners is understanding that whether you believe it or not, you probably identify with one group more than the other and learning to move into the other mindset and, and learn how to do that, train that way. I think we'll provide you tremendous value. Here's a little trainer trick that I used to do all the time or trainer hack. If I got a client and their goal was change the way I look. That was the main goal, change my, my aesthetics, my composition. And I looked at their old workouts. I just do the opposite. So, and this usually looked like for female clients, focusing on just moving the way, because they usually didn't do it that way. And it would blow their minds. I'll help much their bodies change. Or if they always train that way. Oh, I was an athlete. I like to do athletic type workouts. I'm like, okay, we're going to do some bodybuilding for two or three months. And it was just a trainer trick because I could show them in two or three months, dramatic changes in their body. So the value is there. There's value in both. Um, I definitely think everybody should do both. Yo, here's the giveaway today. Maps split. This is a bodybuilder workout program. Here's how you can get it for free. Leave a comment or review in the comment section. In the first 24 hours that we dropped this episode, subscribe to this channel, turn on notifications, do all those things. If we'd like your comment in that section, we'll notify you and you'll get free access to maps split. Also, we got a sale going on right now. Our most popular workout bundle, the RGB bundle, which is maps metabolic mass performance, maps aesthetic, plus a bunch of other free stuff. That bundle is on sale 50% off. Then we also have an individual maps program that's on sale. Maps suspension. It's a suspension trainer workout program about three months long. That's also 50% off. So if you're interested, go to maps fitness products.com and then use the code July 50 for that discount. All right, here comes the show. Well, speaking of dramatic changes and things that I've seen and to all these points that we're bringing up, like this is what I've been really trying to incorporate in programming and this whole entire process since January with these high school kids. And I was just looking around the other day. And so we shifted from that whole five by five to do an isometrics to do a more hypertrophy focus as of late with supersets. And now we're back into like sets of three. And the kids are really responding right now to this heavyweight training and lifting. And I was talking to a few of the coaches and they were looking around and they're like, do you see, do you see Malcolm? Do you see Artem? Do you see like some of these kids are looking beefy? And, and I was asking them like since January, I was asking like to the kids and like, how much weight have you gained? And, and there's been at least seven or eight kids now that have gained like 15 to even 30 pounds. Holy cow. Yeah. Since January. Since January. Bro, that's so rad.  So I've even reduced from three days a week down to two. And then skills training all in between. And so it was like, I didn't know if that was a good shift transition. And so it was cool to see that like, you know, bro, that is how old are these kids? I was 16, 15, 16, 17. Yeah, because it spans because we even had since I think it was end of May, June, we had the eighth graders come down now because they're going to be freshmen. And so it was like I was starting over with them and then comboing it with the guys that were like more advanced. Now the guys that gained like 15, 20, 30 pounds, how old are they? Yeah, so these were all the sophomore to seniors. So yeah, you have like anywhere from 16, like 15 to 18. Bro, okay, people may not realize that's a big deal. Like to gain 20 pounds of. This is very visible. And it's mostly lean body mass. Yeah, mostly.  I'm not going to say it's all lean, but it's at least to to gain that kind of substantial mass where like they do have. Is there strength going through the room? Strength, their strength is reflection of that. So it's not like it's just mass that they're just like slapping on. That's that's wow. Useless. That and so there's challenges with training kids at that age because at that age, your metabolism is so ridiculous. But also your hormones work for you. Yeah.  You also have new be gained. So they have like two things that are working for. But I mean, do 20 pounds muscle or mostly muscle, 30 pounds since January is insane.  I mean, they're in that like bubble, you know, but to be able to maintain and get the benefit of that. Dude, what they have to eat. And what's so cool is that you've given them these things at that age. Like I brought like, I mean, they're going to think they're going to talk about a decade, spinning my wheels, at least as a kid. These kids are going to be dads one day and they're going to talk about Coach Andrews. Oh, yeah, I remember in high school and he'd helped us and had me eat more food and lift and he put on 20.  Now, are they supplementing to are you having them take like protein powder and protein and protein powder and really like because some of them, I mean, they kept asking me for good source and this and that. And I've gone through, you know, like kind of coaching them through that tour.  And I brought I brought that to a few of the players who've been just consistently getting after it. And I'm like, you know, I just want to keep like fueling this. Bro, I totally that's how I would totally reward the guys that are like doing the work. Yeah, so the other guys could see that. That's what I did.  I'm like, he's been, you know, really consistent. I would have loved you as my coach. Yeah, he gave me a protein. I think that's so excited about it, too. Yeah, because he's like, wow, I can't believe how delicious this is and it doesn't give me all the gas and all that.  You know, crown. Don't even get me started on that. Diarrhea mixes that we used to make. Oh my God. Oh, so so you're giving them whey protein and then are they just using it by itself? Are they making shakes with it? How are they using it? Yeah, so they're making shakes in in Conway. But for the most part, I got buying from their parents to get more ground meat and and make sure that the the majority of their plates that they're eating every single meal is, you know, that that that meat focus. And then in between there, they're taking their shakes. You're taking them and doing all the work. They're becoming like from kid like boys to men. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. And we saw a little bit of that because we did a seven on seven kind of little tournament for the first time the other night and it was like it was cool to watch them run around and be competitive with their new like jacked bodies. So it was fun to see. We'll see how it goes once they put pads on and start laying the hammer on people. That's so awesome. I gained I gained 17 pounds. I think almost 17 pounds sophomore to junior year. And I was really dedicated to doing that. And I remember going back to school and then of course you get comments and the girls noticed. See, I was my window too. Yeah, I was not me at all. It was like a grind for me all the way into my like, I would say like early 20. Well, you had a personal training. Yeah, but you had a growth spurt late, right?  Yeah, and I was still growing all the way into my 20s. Like I didn't stop really growing until about 21. When did you have your height growth spurt? Junior to senior year. Okay. Yeah.  I was a point guard freshman year, five three. So it's five three as a freshman. Oh, you were a little. Your point guard too. Yeah. Yeah, I was a point guard, dude. So it's five. I was a point guard in middle school and in first year. Hold on.  Yeah, I probably grew like an inch or two, but then I really shot up to six foot when up my senior year. Five inches. Yeah. Oh my God. I had a huge, I had a summer where I grew a ton. Like. Did you feel awkward? Yeah, I did. So I used to play soccer and part of why I stopped playing soccer was my body awareness changed. I was like you took your soul and plugged it into a new mousey. Yeah, I also had like a little bit of a gap of playing like what unfortunately where I was living before they didn't have a soccer team. So like soccer was actually my original sport. So as a kid, I played over seven years of soccer and then I had a little bit of a gap where I didn't I didn't play and then I played and it also happened like during a growth spurt time in my life. And boy, I'm I just I was like a giraffe, like a baby giraffe out there just did not feel. Knees.  I was really good at soccer. I was better at soccer than I was basketball when I was really young and I just I had lost that. Luckily, I I was able to I stayed consistent with basketball during that growth spurt. So the transition of the new body was less dramatic. So it actually benefited me in basketball, basketball. I became a big man of power forward or even a small forward towards my junior junior year that could handle the ball so I could handle the ball as a point guard. And then I got taller. And so then I had it. So it actually benefited me as I got older. So I had my growth spurt early. I was five eleven as a freshman and then I got up to six foot. So I only gave you a five eleven as a freshman. Yeah, I got so much bigger than me. I was tall, but I was one hundred and thirty five pounds. So about one thirty five. Then I got up to one sixty five, like right around sophomore year and then sophomore or junior years when I got up to like one ninety five or from sophomore to one ninety five. Yeah, sophomore to senior. I got up to one ninety five. I think or one ninety is where my body weighs. And I got over two hundred and my twenty. But I mean, I was I didn't even see, I didn't even see. I remember breaking one hundred and eighty pounds was a big deal to me. And that was in my twenties. Wow. So I was already over six. I was six three at that time. Yeah. So I was I was one hundred and eighty three pounds. I think when I started as a trainer and I was six three. And I think, man, one, it was a creep to one ninety was a creep. I really didn't learn to be able to really fluctuate my weight up and down until I am my late. Now, when did you figure out the like, oh, I'm not eating. I'm not eating enough. Twenties. Yeah. Mid like around twenty between twenty three and twenty five range. I was playing basketball, even recreation basketball, even when I stopped playing organized ball, I I love the game so much. I played every day.  Yeah. And I was doing like basketball every day in the gym and working out. And then on the weekends, I was doing things like snowboarding, wakeboarding. Like, see, I because I was so obsessed about lifting weights or whatever, I'd read articles and books and they were like, you got to eat more. You got to eat more. So I was I was just pounding. I thought I was. So I was doing the same thing, too. But just imagine the amount of calories I was burning. And so I just was.  And I was eating it. But I was no, I remember an article. Specific article. I think it was an Ironman magazine and literally the guy in their row. If you're, I don't care how much it was like, it was like a paragraph or a couple sentences that I don't care how much you think you're eating. If you're not gaining weight, it's not enough. And I went crazy. I'm like, that's it. I'm adding a weight gainer shake to every meal. Yeah, I'm drinking a gallon of milk every day.  So you don't want me to wake up. Oh, I did. I did all that. I have memories of like having like dinner with my family and then sitting down like 20 minutes later after dinner and like having a gainer shake with a peanut butter and jelly and like taking a bite of the peanut butter and jelly and then washing it down, washing it down. I mean, a lot of that noise.  Setting alarms at two in the morning and having a a mile-plex shake that I would pound two in the morning. I got, I got in trouble because, you know, I would buy. I worked young. I was really young. It's like 15, maybe 14, I start working and I'd buy supplements on my own, which in my mom was always like, you're not allowed to take supplements. So I'd buy them and she wouldn't see them at high. I'm wherever and every once in a while, she'd see me make a shake. But I got in trouble once because she would try to talk to me while I was trying to pound this shake in this blender. And I don't, I couldn't talk to throw up. Like I'm so like at the limit, right? So I'm like doing this and I'm like, you know, sweating a little bit. Yeah. Sweating and she kept trying to talk to me. And I was like, mom, I can't talk right now. And then she got really mad at me. You're force-feeding yourself.    You're going to stop my games. I mean, I didn't realize you guys had that much success that early on. I mean, because to me, like a kid having success like that, that's got to feel really good. I struggled forever. I just did. I feel like I couldn't unlock. That's insane. Because I got 20 pounds when my it was going into my junior year. Yeah. So it was like, I was like 165 then 185. My, my later like junior to senior year. And I was like, I was like 510. Something like that. Did you get stretched? I got stretch marks. Yeah. Stretch marks in my chest, dude. My legs. Yup. Yeah. It was especially. I got all that too. It didn't come until my 20s. Didn't happen until after. In fact, I used to use in personal terms.  I was always excited. Oh, yeah, I got stretch marks. Of course. Yeah, of course. I was super proud of them when I was a kid. So I used to use. I had this picture of so after we graduated high school, we all did this Hawaii trip. And I had this picture I used to keep in my presentation binder when I was selling clients training. And it was a picture of me drying off. And so I must have been, let's see here, I'm 20. So I had to been like 165 or between 165 and under 180 because it was before I was a trainer.  You could see like my rib cage like completely. And so I used that as like where I, and then I was like at 180 something as a trainer, like of the, my transformation and still even then. I mean, that wasn't that much, but it was a big deal to me that I had actually finally moved that much.  Like all the stuff I'm saying that I did or whatever is not what I recommend. It was nothing that was healthy. It was definitely rooted in insecurities. It did take me a long time to kind of work through that or whatever. And then, you know, obviously my passion and love for fitness and health is connected really to people. I really love working with people. Well, this also, go ahead. Sorry. No, I was just going to say I had an experience of that today.  So he's got to be in his 60s, mustache, kind of overweight a little bit. But I see he's there every every time I'm there, he's there. And this time I saw him and he's got one of those.  And I'm watching him go from machine to machine and exercise. And then I see him going to sauna and I see him all the time. But now here's the deal. I don't talk to anybody. I'm pretty unapproachable when I work out. I know I have a look on my face that probably says don't talk to me or whatever. But anyway, after that, we're in the steam room and then he starts kind of talking to me. And I'm, you know, at this point, I'm more, I'm so impressed with the guy that I always see him. I was actually thinking like, man, this guy's always here. So I start talking to him. I'm like, man, I see you here all the time. He goes, oh yeah, he goes, I do this all the time. It's really good for me and whatever. And he goes, I just had Achilles tendon surgery because I hurt my Achilles, like really, and you're still working out. He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I said, I noticed you training your other leg. You know, that's kind of counterintuitive. Why are you doing that? It goes, well, I just feel like I feel better. I said, did you know that you're reducing the amount of strength and muscle you're going to lose in the leg that you operated on? He's like, I didn't know that. So we're having this whole conversation about rehab and training. But I see this guy and he doesn't look like he's a ripped or anything like that. He's just an older guy, super consistent though. And he does it every day for himself. And I felt so, it was so cool to talk to somebody like that. And anyways, his name is Jim. If he's listening, I told him to listen to the podcast. Really cool guy. Anyway, go ahead. No, back to what we were saying about the mistakes that we made as kids and stuff like that. And like, and you're not advocating for anyone doing that. You know, the cool part today and in this highlights why I like all the tools that we have that we didn't have access to, like part of my big, like big aha moments was like finding out how much it was burning. Like I had no concept of that. Like we didn't have any of these tools. We didn't have Fitbit. We didn't have BodyBud.  We had no, we had none of this stuff to kind of get, at least get an idea. And it was BodyBug was one of the first huge pivotal moments to me when it came to nutrition. And it wasn't like I learned something about macros. I just learned about how my body was burning. And let's say the thing is off by 20% didn't matter.  And then they, we didn't have apps to track.  And so, you know, I did that, but like, man, to do that all the time was so laborious. Or now you have this app where it's like you finished typing, getting finished typing chicken. It already populates for you. It's like, so easy to get a good idea of how many calories you're consuming, how much protein you're actually in taking in relation to how much is your body burning on a regular basis? What days are your high days of burning? What days, I mean, that, that information for me was so enlightening that it completely changed the way. And that was what really took me off on really being able to manipulate my weight and build muscle or lean out was just having an idea. I think it's still challenging today to get good information, but there's so much more, so many more options. Whereas when, when I was young, there weren't very many options and all the options were bad, all of them. It was like, where am I going to learn? Flax magazine, muscle and fitness, Ironman magazine, and then the big guy in the gym. And there really was nowhere else, right? I'd go to the library and I'd try to look up obscure studies, which, you know, try reading those as a 16 year old kid. It was like learning how to read, you know, a like, what's Bo Jackson doing? Yeah, you're not going to be doing with Bo Jackson. Oh, dude, speaking of the gym, here's, okay. So I just talked about something really cool. Here's something a little mean, but whatever is hilarious. I see this guy working out on the assisted pull-up machine and he does some reps, you know, and then he moves the pin down, adds more weight and he does more reps and he adds more weight and I'm standing behind him and waiting, like, can you mind if I jump in? He goes, yeah, he goes, it's really crazy. He goes, the more weight I put on this, I just feel stronger. Swear to God, swear to God. I said, well, you know, that's the weight that's lifting you. Hey, because I could say, after he said that, I said, no wonder he was so proud. He's in the whole stack, bro. He went the whole stack and he was like, bro, I could do the whole stack. It lifts you. Is that true, bro? That's true. He really did go. I swear to God. Oh man. I mean, it was like his first time working out. That's embarrassing. So I kind of, I giggled, you know, and then I said that and then he laughed afterwards. He's like, oh, I was so confused. Like, yeah, dude, I'm killing it. Yeah. It's your first time working out. You do the whole stack on this machine. What do you think is going on? It's only it works like that.  I know, dude. It's that teleport.  I wanted to tell you that I actually, I came across it after you said it. You brought up the, all the teenage boys doing the going to see minions. Yeah. So what's the deal? Okay. So first of all, it's called Gentleman Minions. It's a viral TikTok thing. Teenage boys. Sorry. Now what's fascinating about it, what I thought was so interesting, aside from it being like a silly TikTok thing that's gone viral is that the, uh, so I saw this as the stats and I don't remember them to be precise, but it doesn't matter. I don't need them for my point. The, this, one of the smallest demographics of people that go watch the old, the other minion shows are teenage boys. And so they have blown this thing up because they have, it's become a viral thing for teenage boys to go get suited up, go do it. And then they video themselves on TikTok and then it's who would have guessed and it's now created a whole new genre of, of the, like the, what was in the past, the, one of the smallest pool of people that were watching those shows. So in the past, it was like younger kids and then like parents, teenage boys and watching, it's better than pony boys. My little pony creeps. Oh, that was a thing. Yeah, dude. Oh, these are men that grown man. I didn't know those. They loved my little pony so much. And then, yeah, that they called, they call themselves pony boys. That was a thing. Yes, I did not know that. Oh, Doug, look it up. Oh my God. Can I tell you something right now?  It was really creepy.  It's just, it's weird. I did not know that. Yeah, they're like infatuated. These are the same guys like to wear diapers at home and always looking at it. Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, this also brings up another thing that I came across that I don't know if it's true or not. And so I don't know if you guys can fact check me or maybe Doug can. So I was watching an interview that Andrew Schultz, the comedian that we all like, was doing. Brony's not Brony's. Brony's, that's it. Oh, can you pull it up, Doug? I think I have heard Brony's. I've heard that as a slide. I've heard someone call someone a Brony.  So that's where that comes from.  Yeah, they that's where the term comes from. Brony. Yes, I did not know that's what that is. I've heard that as a slide. Oh, it is special. This is the first time I have ever heard this. You know who I feel bad for? Wow. Did you know about this, Kyle? I feel bad. I did not know about that. Can I tell you who I feel bad for? What? I feel bad for women. The pool of men that you can date right now. Like if you're a guy and you're not a Brony or a weirdo, like you can probably score like pretty attractive. I got high ranking girls now. That is really, really weird. And I had no idea. And I have heard people call somebody a Brony before. It's special. I'm going to bring it back. Yeah. I'm still going to call some people Brony's now. So good to use that. Now that I know what it is. So anyways, the Andrew Schultz thing. So I'm watching it and we're talking about, he's talking about TikTok. Is this true? Okay. He says that TikTok, the algorithm is different in China than the algorithm in the United States. It's true. Can you fact check that, Doug? It's true. Because I've already checked it. I, you know, it's through Rogan. So again, I'm just going off of what Rogan is saying. But he says it's true. According to him, there's, you know, TikTok is actually not the same name in China. By the way, what's the name for the one in China? I'm looking for it right now. It's boy. So while you're looking for Douyin, what is it? Douyin. Douyin. So what he says, okay, is that the algorithm in China, like it basically it populates the things that like the things that China wants their their society to like their youth. Yeah. Educate like education and like science. Yeah. Awards, achievements. Yes. Like all these, all these. And so it populates that for the audience over here. It's like I ate four Tide Pods. No, when they cut it off, that's what he says here.  Like, dude, they've had challenges where they've just like blowing up stuff. It's like total. Is that true?  Well, according to Rogan, again, this is not fact checked. He says China's version of TikTok celebrates academic achievements and athletic achievements. It's all science projects, all these different fascinating things. And he says they also have a youth mode, which features a limit for kids under 14. Things shuts off after 40 minutes. Listen, listen, it's not just TikTok, all social media, movies, media, it's all filtered through the Communist Party of China. 100 percent. I mean, all. The state controls all of it. Instagram? What do you mean? OK, OK, OK. Have you ever seen? I understand that one. It's owned by China. Oh, no, no, no, no. Social credit system. There's a difference with TikTok.  Oh, that's my point. That's what. With other media, they just filter it. Oh, you mean China does? China does. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm talking about US.  They can do whatever they want to their society. I care about what's going on in our society.  Go on TikTok. That's the part that's crazy. Look at the popular stuff. That's what's crazy to me is that I know China filters what they want their society to see from Instagram, Facebook. I don't know that. Have you ever seen the ads? What we just came out of Pride Month, right? Have you ever seen the ads that a company will do, like BMW's Pride Month ads here and the ones they do in Middle East and China? I was blown away by that. I was the guy. So different. The guy that we follow that I like his content. What's his name? I think it's Anomaly. Anomaly? Oh, I know he's talking about. Anomaly? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it is. Is this his Instagram? Yeah, I really like the stuff that he's been putting out for a long time. And he shared that, that blew my mind, where he pulled up, like you said, BMW and some of these big companies. And like all, if you go to their website, it's all got the flag and it's all Pride Month and stuff like that.   Like, talk about the ultimate virtue signal. That's why he. Like, where Gaze are least persecuted, you're going to put all that stuff up there. Where they are, you're not going to put anything up there to support them. Well, I mean, look, like if people can't see through that, dude, like, come on, it's not authentic. It's about money. And it's about, yeah, just like contributing to what they think culture is asking of them. Well, such a joke. I know, I know it's fake. But hey, look, a company's job or goal is to, is to give the consumer what they want, make more money. And if you, and they also have to go through governments in other countries. So like Disney will make a film like the light year one where they had, I believe, was a gay relationship in there. They kind of made a big deal about it. They didn't air that in China or in the Middle East. They're not going to air that. In fact, I think they banned that film in some of those countries, specifically because they showed a same-sex couple in there. But here, of course, it's going to go out. It's just the way that I know. It's pretty, it's, it's pretty great. Speaking of social media and stuff, Twitter right now, and I don't know if this is true for other social media platforms, but Twitter right now is going on a spree of suspending accounts. And I want to call this out because I want people to pay attention. Before any major election, social media ramps up the accounts that they suspend. They ramp it up. Why? Well, the argument is that their employees, you know, they want to, you know, kind of move the needle in one direction or another, but pay attention, right? Before election season, they start to act very, very differently.  Yeah, and they do that. I mean, is that more correlation than it is causation, though? Is it really just that? I mean, it is interesting. Because they're always banning. You know what I'm saying? There's never a time they're not banning. It really ramps up, though. But you see it, yeah. You see it shift quite a bit during election season. I'd be interested to see how much that is. Bro, I got a- Because first of all, there's all, okay, every two years there's elections going on. So, right, right. It's usually like the six months leading into the election. And I- Yeah, I would love to see some stats on like literally what you just said. Six months to election, is it that dramatically different than just six months before that? Yeah, I believe so. You're right, though. We don't have numbers to show that because they hide and they guard their numbers. I mean, look what Twitter did when Elon demanded to see how many bots and what was going on. Like, oh, we can't tell you. We don't know what's going on. That went through. You know that, right? He's getting it, right? I don't know, is he? Oh, yeah, it all got, pull up Elon's purchase approved. Did you hear what his little, his comment about, remember how it just got revealed that he's got two more kids with another person that came out? Yeah, you said that. And then he didn't say anything about it. And then he said something like depopulation threatens the earth. So I'm just doing my part or something like that, bro. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Bro. Oh my God. Great innovator, terrible dad, Elon. Come on, man. You gotta be, yeah, that's not the thing. Does he really have like eight? Is it that many? Nine. He has nine kids. Yeah. And I think it's with four women? Bro, he is. He's the Sean Kemp of Tech. I mean, well, at least he's gonna financially take care of one of the guys a billionaire so he could have, you know, a hundred kids and they'd be fine. He's just probably not very involved. I'm actually surprised that he doesn't get more heat for that because I was unaware of that. I've never seen anybody post or talk about that very much. And I feel like that's something that people would try and pick him apart for. Well, I mean, like I said, he's an innovator, highly productive, but doesn't seem to be like a great dad. But then again, I don't know how you can balance what he does, how many leaders and professional athletes. Yeah, we've seen the relationships keep jobs out of his kids. Exactly, so again, to judge people on that's a little, like what are we doing? Yeah, I know. Musk's deal is not a sure thing here. It's not approved? No, it says it's in peril actually right now. This is 18 hours ago, it was, no. Yeah, see that's what I thought. So why, why, why is it in peril? Because I think they don't want it, they're not telling them the whole box. Yeah, and unfortunately it's the Washington Post I'm looking at and they make me sign in in order to see their articles and I'm not gonna do that. So with that devalue the stock, like if they found out that most, you know, a majority of... What do you think would happen? Oh my God. What's I mean, that's why. If you went in and it's like, hey, 30% of the people in here are fake. So then he'd be able to, would he be able to reduce his offer then? No, no. No, his offer is what it is. But I mean, imagine any... Are you sure about that? He could pull out though. Yes, he could. He could, however, now they're threatening a suit if he pulls out. Because it could affect the stock price, it could affect lots of different things. I see. It's a touching situation.   Eli, Elon wins that though, for sure. If the filings show that the company is this real and he finds out that 30% of it's not... I agree with you. Does the value is based off of that? I agree with you, but I don't know how the supply... I don't know what the regulations look like. I don't know what that would look like in court. I have no idea.  Do you guys hear James Kahn passed away? I don't know. 82, yeah. He was a sonny in the Godfather and did a lot of... He just passed away. It's kind of sad. I just sad. Yeah, I liked him as an actor. He's in 007 too, right? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. In 007? Was he done? I don't recall. What's that one movie with the woman who was his stalker? He goes, you're my favorite... I'm your biggest number one fan? You remember that movie? Oh, Misery. Misery, yeah. He was in that movie. Wow, that was a great... That's classic. Of all movies, the one scene that was the hardest for me to ever watch was the one in Misery where she has this... Pushes down the... Pushes down the... No, no, I love that scene. The hobbling thing. No, because he gets in a car accident. Spoiler alert. Movie's been out forever. If you haven't watched it, it's a problem. He's an author, gets in a car accident. This woman saves him. She lives in the woods. Turns out she's like a stalker fan or whatever. And he realizes this and he's like trying to heal because his legs are broken and he tries to escape. It's actually one of the few Stephen Kings that I really like. And then what she does, because she doesn't want him to go away, because she wants him to write another book for her, is she takes his legs and puts a two by four between them. Remember this?   Oh, that's the worst, dude. I can't handle that one. Anyway, really crazy. I just saw something that... Is there still Flat Earthers? Is there still community that believes that? I'm using that they... We thought the internet was gonna make everybody so... Well, I saw this... I wish I could give the Instagram page. It's a really good Instagram page that I follow that I saw this clip on. And I guess there was a Netflix documentary that Flat Earthers did that was called Behind the Curve or something like that. Oh, I think I saw this. It's just where the guy, he put together this test. And he disproved... And he disproved himself? Yes. The look on his face. Yes, yes. So, basically one of the ways that you can tell that the Earth is curved is there's this light test that you can use. Laser. Yeah, because laser's perfectly straight. Right. And you basically, you cut these holes out, like these perfect cylinders out, and you have these, I don't know, like... It's like one mile apart. Yeah, yeah. And then you basically flash the light through. And if the Earth is flat, it should come straight through on the other side and you could see it. And so they set that whole test up and the dude's like, and they're talking to each other back and forth, like, all right, shine the light through. I don't see it. I don't see it. And he's like, no, no, shine it through. I'm shining through it now. We'll raise it up. And he raises it up. And then, yeah, then it lines up.  Lizard people changed my laser. Oh, man. I swear. This is real. We thought the internet was going to make people smarter. Oh, it didn't. It didn't at all. It made a lot more dumb people. No, I just showed you how easily we're manipulated and how bad we want to be in groups. There's some power of documentaries, I swear. And YouTube has mastered all this with like being really convincing with the kind of content they put together.  So let me ask you guys this. Okay, so, you know, world superpowers have been doing counter Psyops or whatever on each other forever, right?   Yeah. And they'll do that.   So when it comes to like these types of conspiracy theories, where I believe it is when there's lots of money to be had, that's like, I'm less of a conspiracy theorist of like someone trying to take over or manipulate for some bullshit reason or that they're just out to get somebody. This has happened though, and we've literally used that tactic to overthrow governments. Yeah, we have. It's power. So it's like, why wouldn't you think that would be applied to us? Well, no, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying if there is, if there's money or power to be had, that there's where it's believable to me. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like it's, I don't just like all of a sudden think that this like a conspiracy theory, oh, this is what's happening. It's like, why? So there's this theory that if you take a society and you systematically break apart, long held assumed beliefs, things that were fact, and you slowly create a doubt in dissent, then they'll start to doubt and not trust their leaders, their government, each other. And then they're in this position where like I don't believe anything. Yeah. And then they become very easily manipulated. Now you've got control. Well, it's like your great Twilight Zone episode. You just talked about where the aliens zoom out and then it was just to see how long it took for us to start to kill each other. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Oh, you want to hear about some cool tech? Check this out. I'm gonna read this to you because it's pretty rad. They have a company create this nanobot technology where it brushes and flosses your teeth and cleans them, essentially. So check this out. These are petite and multifunctional robo dentists that do the work of brushing, flossing and rinsing all without you having to do any of that. So essentially, I'm gonna read what it is. It's a micro swarm made up of iron oxide nanoparticles, a magnetic material that naturally assembles into shapeable structures in the presence of a magnetic field. So by manipulating the magnetic field, the researchers were able to move and transfigure the mini robots into bristle and floss-esque shapes that could adhere to every dental nook and cranny. So through this mental, through this magnetic field. Bring a magnet across your face, the reconstructing little particles. Cleans and scrubs your mouth. That's cool. Isn't that wild? Sounds bizarre. That sounds crazy, right? That's cool. I thought that was super cool. I have a super cool thing for Justin if Doug could look it up for me because I just came across an article and I hadn't had a chance to dive in to make sure that it's available yet, but Spotify is now doing a karaoke feature. Yes. Right? See, I figured you're right. Yeah, no, I'm serious. And I think that's brilliant. Like how popular is karaoke? Yeah. Or just people who wanna- So you shoot it up on your screen at home on your TV. No, you might be able to post it on, do you have like social media pages on that? I don't know. So I just saw the article, so I was like, oh wow, that's gonna be interesting because I know how popular karaoke is and the fact that none of these music apps have thought to build that. I mean, you gotta go buy a karaoke machine right now, right? You go, like, why did not somebody think, like, why did not iTunes, why did not one of these other iHeart radio or any of these other companies not think to do this? And Spotify- It's gotta be something where you can- It's gotta be tricky with the... Cause you know how Dari is tricky to put some of these music on your videos and all that in terms of like licensing? Well, okay, the thing about this, Spotify already has, if you listen to music on Spotify, there's a tab at the bottom that shows lyrics and you hit it and then- Yeah. As he's singing it, the lyrics come up.  So what does it do there? You sing along with it and you get a score. Oh! See how good you are. You know how they gamified it. You know what's funny about, which I think this is really cool. You know what's funny about this? I, at least a dozen times in my life have encountered a friend or family member that really is convinced that they can sing really well. Yeah. And then you hear them sing and then you realize that they've been lied to by a lot of people. Like a lot of your friends and family have never really told you the truth. I called them out to- Yeah, like, that's terrible. Yeah. You don't even sound kind of good, you sound really bad. Has that ever happened to you? Oh yeah. Oh, it's so cringy. But I love it though. Like, I don't know. A lot of people get really uncomfortable with sitting through like really, I'd like, I love really bad carriers. Oh, that's so weird. I get, so when someone is bombing, I get so uncomfortable. Me too. If you have like a speech or you have like, you're performing. I just love watching everybody in their reactions. Oh, I get so weird feeling. I get- I don't know why yet.  And like, you're just kind of stuck and it's like, working your way out of that is half the fun. Mm. You know? Speaking of bombing, do you guys hear one of Biden's latest speeches? Nice transition. Oh Lord. Wow. First of all, he said something very interesting. He said, America is a nation that can be defined in a single word. I was gonna put him, put, excuse me. Oh, but besides that, I swear to God, it's weakened to burn. He's half Swedish chef. No, you know what he said? He's reading a teleprompter and then as he's reading a speech, he goes, read the caption again. It is noteworthy that the percentage of women who registered to vote and cast a ballot is consistently higher than the percentage of the men who do so. End of quote. Repeat the line. Like he's reading what they wrote. Is it not to him? No, he did not. Yeah, he did not. Dude, so. Do you know that I feel like, okay, if it wasn't for so much, if there wasn't so much hate for Trump to get rid of him and everybody was so, such a bad taste. I feel like Biden would be railed on 24 seven. By everyone. Well, he's already been, he's been, he's a pariah right now in the Democrat party. They're like throwing him out. Finally. Oh yeah. Like finally. But I mean, it was just like a couple of weeks ago, he's going on Jimmy Kimmel on these shows and they're like hand feeding him like questions and making it so easy for him. Like. Tell him about how much he likes ice cream. Oh my. I can't believe, yeah, people aren't more upset because obviously like gas prices are ridiculous right now. Everybody knows that. Everybody's feeling that. And then, is it true it came out that he was like selling, get like oil. Yeah, but you reserve our reserve oil to China. To a Chinese company. Yeah. Tell me how insulting that is. That his son may be invested. With our head in the sand about that dude.  How are they not getting angry? This is all Putin's fault because Putin invaded over there and that doesn't matter who was the president, we were going to go over there and go save Ukraine no matter what. I know. The spin is insane. Well, okay, to be fair, the inflation issue, which largely is a result of us printing tremendous amounts of money out of thin air, that's a bipartisan issue. That's right. Republicans did it. Democrats did it. Nobody voted against it. No doubt. And anytime somebody came out and said, we got to cut spending guys, we can't have all these programs, we can't be doing this.  Nobody wanted to vote for them guys. We don't want to do that. But, but it's really, I mean, Biden is, he really, it's weakened to burnings. It really is. It's really scary. It's so painful to watch. But it's just painful. It's also funny. It's also funny.   She but do it. What are you talking about? You have to like, what? Is there any kind of qualifications left for being like mentally fit and like having all of your faculties in check? Like, who's checking that? And at what point is there like, somebody that decides like, well, you're actually not mentally capable of leading or directing any of this? How wild is it as we, as we evolve as society, we get smarter and more technology and we're more evolved today than we were a hundred years ago. Yet when you look at the presidents, like the, the direction that they're going, like literally like, we just said, we just had Trump before this. Worse and worse and worse dude. Yeah, dude, like the direction we're going with the leader of the country, the leader of the country is really kind of scary. What do you think about it?  It's like, I kind of get that. Like who really wants the job to begin with? Oh, never. There's like never more perks to it anymore. Never in a million years. All right, I'm going to go back to cool technology because I got to talk about one of our sponsors. This is really cool. So we obviously work with Keldera skincare company. We love them, right? Check out one of the things they do to get extracts from plants, which is brilliant. It's something called cryogenic grinding. So this is not a- It's not sexy. Yeah, this is not a- They dry freeze the plant and then they grind it up. Yeah, this is not a strip club in Antarctica. So what it is is it's subzero temperatures using liquid nitrogen, which creates a dry and cold atmosphere that eliminates the possibility of oxidation. So that's rad because one of the problems is, yes, when you're- So if you were to grind it up without freezing it, you would lose some of the- The fats and the oils they'd get oxidized, which then makes them lose their anti-oxidant, anti-inflammatory properties.  It becomes inflammatory. Can oftentimes become a- We cook it, right? If you boil it or you put a flame under it or whatever it is. Yeah, it generates no heat and research has found that this method preserves 15% more nutrients than conventional processes. Pretty interesting, right? Yes. That is fascinating. Yes, because I- I wonder where there's other applications for that. Oh, that's a good question. No idea. Well, anywhere where you extract anything. I mean- I'm in cannabis. Yeah, exactly. That's where I was thinking. I know you were.  What do you mean, Adam? Well, so you use like, that's what bubble hashes made with really cold water, right? So you use really, really cold water to pull out and extract from the plant. That's how bubble hashes make. So it's- Rather than using like a gas or, you know, what do they use before?  So bubble hashes. Now, that because it's a chemical and it's much higher, you get a higher potency. So it's stronger, which is why everybody wants you to do that. But bubble hashes is still stronger than just regular marijuana. Is it really called the wax? It's like the pure concentrated. No, no, no. No, that's a wax. So I mean, there's all kinds of slang terms for what that is, but it's all an extract from marijuana. It's concentration. Yeah, it's all concentration from marijuana and they all have different street names for it, but bubble hash was one of the original. I mean, they've been doing that process and you basically have all these different bags and they're all like, you know, filters, straining filters and you put it in an ice bucket cold water and you let it strain through all of it and then what you get left over is what turns into hash. Yeah, so no chemical solvents. Yeah. So that's what they're doing with Caldera. It's cleaner that way. Yeah, so there's no chemical solvents. There's no heat that's being generated which oxidizes oils and fats. And so what you end up with is a higher antioxidant, you know, quality oil that you put on your face and this is why it works so much better. For me, the telling sign was just, because obviously I don't use, I never really used skincare products before. So I can't compare it necessarily to other stuff, but my wife now, she always uses skincare stuff, get rid of her old stuff. Now she uses Caldera exclusively because she's like, this is the best thing I've ever used. So I think this is part of the reason why. Yeah, that's really, you know, it sounds expensive to do that. Well, Caldera is not cheap. If you look at their serum and compare it to like, you go to Target to get another serum, it's gonna be more. Yeah, you pay for what you get. But you use less, first of all, I don't use very much. And the effects are way more, way more. Hey, check this out. A company we work with called Bio Optimizers. They've put together a truly irresistible offer that's only good while supplies last. So check this out. You can literally get a free bottle of their best-selling enzyme supplement called Mass Zimes. It's really good, digestive enzyme supplement. So it helps reduce bloating, improves protein breakdown. So it helps you digest the protein into its amino acids, gets to your muscles more effectively. It helps with constipation, other digestive issues. So you'll get that for free, literally, with nothing else. You don't have to sign up for a subscription service or anything like that.  Plus they're gonna throw in a couple free e-books. And all you gotta do is go to our link, masszimes.com. That's M-A-S-S-Z-Y-M-E-S.com forward slash mind pump free to get your free bottle of Mass Zimes and try it out. See if you like it, you probably will. I love it myself. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Elizabeth from Florida. Elizabeth, how's it going? How can we help you? Going well, thanks for having me on, guys. I had kind of a three-part question and there's a lot of context into it, but I'm gonna try to not over-explain too much to save you on time. My first question was, I'm torn with the current situation that we're in, inflation and all the mess between, it feels like I'm torn between choosing financial health or nutritional health. So kind of how, if you were to have any pointers on how to prioritize nutritional health for someone like me who was in a very tight budget. The second question was, I feel really good when I'm around 120 grams of protein per day. And for me, that's easiest with our budget, with things like yogurt and cottage cheese and like deli meat. But those are, I feel like they're not high quality foods, I guess, and I have a mild dairy sensitivity. So I'm also torn in that if I decide to choose between like gut and internal health and avoid things like dairy or if I shoot for my protein, kind of regardless of the cost. And my last question is, when limited with nutrition, how would you suggest to optimize training or exercise or weight loss? Okay, great questions. By the way, a lot of people are feeling what you're feeling right now with the changes in prices. So I feel for you, it sounds like you've got a family. So I totally understand the challenges, but I need more information from you. So what's your ultimate goal? Are you trying to lose weight or gain weight or build or what's your goal? Lose weight, a lot. Okay, well, okay, I've got a lot to lose. Okay, so check this out. Okay, I don't know if this is a surprise to you, but eating less is cheaper than eating more. Than eating more. So in other words, let's, if we look at the hierarchy, if we look at the hierarchy of priorities with diet, it goes calories, then macros, and then you can look at things like organic and quality and that kind of stuff. Okay, so if you just looked at your total food budget and all the food that you're eating now, and if we change nothing else, but you ate less, you would lose weight and improve your performance and health and save money. So that's number one. So we actually killed, I don't know how many birds with one stone, like three there, right? So just keep everything the same, eat less of it, save money, lose weight, health is better, financial health is better. It's beautiful. Okay, now let's move to some of the other parts of your question, like sensitivities. Protein powders are very cheap on a serving per serving basis. You can get plant protein, you can get collagen protein, which is very inexpensive in comparison to foods. You can also buy, I'm sure you don't know this, you're a mom, so you probably already know this, but you can buy oftentimes on special food and bulk like chicken thighs or ground beef or eggs. And on a per serving basis, they tend to be very inexpensive. So I would focus on that. I would not worry so much about things like organic, non-GMO, grass-fed until you've hit those other things. That doesn't really matter if your calories are high. It doesn't make that big of a difference. So I wouldn't worry about the quality stuff, yet I would worry about the other stuff first.  So we solved all those issues there. Also keep in mind, a healthier version of yourself will be a better mom if you're working, you'll be better at work, you'll be better. Everything about you, if you compared you right now versus you even healthier, all those other aspects of your life will improve, including the financial one. It will bleed into that. It may not feel like a one-to-one right at first, but it eventually will play into that. When you are healthier, you will be better in all aspects of your life. So it will pay its dividends. So just keep that in mind. And on it, like to Sal's point with the food, like boy, white rice and meat, ground beef, and turkey and chicken thighs in bulk. Frozen vegetables. Yeah, frozen vegetables, I mean. That's like the cheapest you could go. Right there comes the food. And make that the staple, then potatoes, potatoes, yams, sweet potatoes, and buying these things in bulk and sticking to those main foods. You're getting great shape. Now I wanna help you out with the workout part, okay? That's where we really can help you out, I think. I'm gonna send you a couple workout programs that require no to minimal equipment. So you can do them at home. If you need to for convenience. So for whatever reason, you can't go to the gym. You can at least follow the workouts that we've programmed that require no equipment or like bands or suspension trainer. And we'll also give you a discount code for suspension trainers. You can get one really cheap from us and it's good quality. So I'm gonna send you map suspension and maps anywhere to help with the consistency. But I wanna go a little further with the nutrition part. Are there foods right now that you eat or that you purchase that you could do without that you think are probably contributing to the weight issue and that you could probably get rid of? Is there anything off the top of your head that you could think of right now and be like, yeah, I could not buy that and I'd probably help me lose weight and it would save money? Not at the top of my head. We actually eat like probably a 90% like a whole foods less processed, not a whole lot of sauces. So not at the top of my head that I can think of. I think it's more just quantity. Okay. What about that 10%, you said 90%. What about that 10%? That's just like when we're out with his family or with my family or when we go out, which is very seldom with financial issues. Yeah.  No. Okay. So you're eating whole natural foods, you're just eating a lot. I guess. Okay. That's what it seems to be. So cut the easiest thing to cut just in terms of, you know, essential. The easiest thing to cut is carbohydrates because they're just not essential. Elizabeth, have you tracked before?  Yes. Okay. So when you track and at one, how long ago was that? And then when you did, what did you see? Well, I've tracked on and off for maybe five years. My most recent time, I actually just stopped a couple of weeks ago because I was on a trip with my family. And I was eating around 23 to 2400 calories. Okay. Oh, cool. That's a pretty good metabolism. That's a pretty good amount to be able to cut from. You have some room to go. Yeah. I also am breastfeeding. So that also just confuses me a little bit. Yeah. You can cut your calories while breastfeeding, but not too aggressively. If you start to notice your milk dry up, then I'll obviously be very careful because that's a priority, but you can cut a few like two to 300 calories and then observe your milk production. And if everything looks good, then you're okay. If you start to notice your milk production really goes down, then you might have to wait until you're on the weaning process when you stop breastfeeding. Elizabeth, I don't know. She's only got a few more months. I'm gonna have Doug give you a free access to our private forum too. I would love for you to either use my fitness pal or fat secret for me and track your food, everything for a week and share it with me in there so I could see it. And I think I could give more specific tips and advice because I definitely think it's important since you're breastfeeding too that we don't wanna give generic advice of cut calories here or there without seeing exactly what you're doing. So I'll put you in the forum for free. You do me the effort of tracking for a week so we can peer in a little bit more specific and then share that with the guys in there. And then maybe we can give you even more specific tips on like little hacks or tips to add or potentially to take away from that. Great advice. Yeah, that would be good. Yeah. Sounds wonderful. All right, so I'm sending you maps anywhere in map suspension, okay? So you'll have some workouts you can do if you don't have access to a gym, just for convenience. Yeah, yeah. Then make sure you say hi to us when you get in the forum, all right? Yes. Oh, I will. Thank you. And then when you vote, make sure you vote for people who don't increase inflation. Whatever that means. We're from Florida, we're doing a good job. Hey, I didn't say anything else. All I said was don't vote for people who raise inflation. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. All right, all right. Bye-bye. Yeah, the bulking on a budget is way more challenging than cutting on a budget. Of course, of course. Now, the challenge with cutting on a budget is convenience and this is what a lot of people don't necessarily either like to communicate or maybe don't, you know. Especially when you like variety. Well, I want to. That's like they want the fast plus they want to see. I want to see this diet for a week because 90% whole foods and breastfeeding and around 24 or 2200 calories or so, something's not adding up for me. So I want to see. I feel the same way. Yeah, I want to. That's why I want. But it's hard to know. You can't know. That's why I didn't want us to take jabs at like advice because something's not adding up already for me that I want to see some real data that I can go, okay, this is what's, maybe you're grossly under eating something and maybe something's off a little bit because if I have a client, okay, if I got a client to follow 75, 80% whole foods, they almost always have a tremendous success. Yeah, just that. And if she can't think of anything off the top of her head that is an offender in her diet and the only thing is the occasional eating out, which doesn't sound like it happens a lot. Something is off for me. Yeah. And that's the thing is that we'll just be estimating at that point. So I'm glad you kind of went in that direction. But yeah, cause this is where I would then find out the information, say with like beverages, for instance, and like the calories. Sure, I knew you were going that way. But I didn't want to jab too hard in that direction because I don't know. And also too, like with some of my clients, it was like nuts or things that have high calorie that are snacks that make their way. So yeah, we'd like some more insight there. Totally. Our next caller is Amelia from Canada. Amelia, how can we help you? Hey guys, thanks for having me on. Can you hear me okay? We can. Okay, okay, it's so cool.  So I'm obviously I'll just jump right into it. I'm 19 years old. I've been working out for about the last four years. But I've been kind of floating around the same like the deacon strength level for about one to two years now, partially just because I'm focusing on other stuff like school and, you know, I haven't been super, super committed, but I enjoy the activity. So this summer I'm working at a mill and in each shift I get about like 20 to 30,000 steps. I'm walking and sweeping a lot. And I'm also in a wedding party in the end of September. So I thought that this opportunity was the high activity level would be like a great opportunity for me to like lean down like an extra like 10 pounds or something. And then after the wedding in September, when I go back to school, I'd like to get, I'd like to be a bit leaner at the beginning of that and then start like a bulking phase to build strength and muscle. And I feel like in my all my years of training, I haven't spent a lot of time in an extended period of like a surplus to really build a good foundation. And I'm five four. So when I've tried to cut in the past, I found it challenging to stay consistent on the 1400 calories roughly. So it'd be nice to this building phase just to get a slightly higher maintenance at the end of it. So essentially my question is two parts. One, how do you best recommend taking advantage of this activity level to burn fat while minimizing muscle loss and metabolic adaptation? And then two, how should I go about transitioning into my building phase in the fall when my activity level will drop dramatically without reverting back to just like my past disease? So good question. It is a really cool question. And I actually, yeah, this is a great question. And I don't think there's gonna be a wrong answer here, but I actually would flip your strategy instead of, because I get where you're going because you're taking all these steps. So you're like, okay, I'm gonna be burning these extra calories so that it'll be easier to lean out. But because you already have struggled with kind of leaning out and you're kind of low calorie where you're at 1400 calories in order to lose, I actually would take this as a great opportunity to really start to increase your calories and speed your metabolism up. Therefore, when you go into the time when you're gonna be a lot less active, you're gonna be able to cut back on the calories and you'll have this faster metabolism and you'll still be at a healthy place of calories. That makes sense. How many steps were you taking before? Like how many steps you take normally when you're not at the mill? During school, like during when I was really busy studying probably like six to eight and then I ramped it up to like 10 to 12. I should mention I am eating about like 18 to 1900 calories and I have like an app for weight that tracks my trend and it says I'm losing, it was like 1.2 to 1.3 pounds per week and now it's more like 0.7 to 0.8.   But I'm not, I am losing weight on like 1800 to 1900 right now just because of the high activity. I'm not like stuck in a rut. I just don't want to get there.  You know all the stuff you've been working out for four years. I've been listening to you guys for like four years. Oh, that's great. I appreciate that. You know what's cool about this? Okay, so you're already taking, you were taking six to 10,000 steps before. It's gonna go up to 20 to 30,000 steps. That additional 10 to 20,000 steps, let's just say is about 250 more calories a day. Okay, and I'm being conservative, but let's just say it's 200, 250 calories a day. What you can do is you can increase your calories by 100 and you're still gonna be in a natural deficit. So you can actually bump your calories a little bit and still get yourself leaner and focus on building muscle. I would not cut because you're increasing your steps so much. I wouldn't go on a cut at the same time. The cut is gonna naturally happen because of the extra steps and because it's novel and it's only over the summer. So I would bump, if I were you, I would bump my calories by 100 to 150 and then do the steps and you'll still probably be in a slight deficit and you'll probably still build a little bit of muscle during that process. That's why I like the idea of actually kind of like thinking in a more of a reverse diet during this time is like, in fact, my personal goal for you would be, okay, let's try during this time to actually continually increase calories without gaining weight. Because you're doing all this extra activity, can I keep getting you to add a little bit more calories, a little bit more calories? Why we're doing all this activity that way when we get at the end of the summer or whatever, we're now got you up to 2,400 calories and you haven't put on any weight really. And so even if you haven't really leaned out much or whatever, but you're eating 2,400 calories, we're in a good position. In fact, what you could even do is when you're done with the steps and it goes back down to 10,000, keep your calories at 2,400 and that now is a slight bulk. So now you're in a natural slight bulk and then you'll probably build some muscle. I like that strategy a lot better. Okay, yeah. Okay. Okay, so that's what you would suggest like for when I, when I, when I get a little drops, I wouldn't don't necessarily worry about changing over the calorie maintenance. Exactly. So I would go right now like, or right when you start working in the mill, if you've already doing it, I would bump your calories by about 100 to 150, keep them there. And Adam suggested, you know, moving it up incrementally so long as you gain no weight. I like that. At the end of the job, when you're done with it, keep the calories the same. Now it's a surplus and then focus on building. So now you're kind of hitting both goals. And if anything, what might happen is you're probably gonna get leaner because of the, of the gain muscle.   I would also, when you transition that job, I'd also transition the programming I'm doing. So whatever you're following right now or the summer, follow that while you're also slowly increasing. And then when your job switches, also switch the stimulus. So let's say you're, I don't know, are you running anabolic or what are you running right now? Or what program? Yeah, I'm doing anabolic. It's not my first I'm doing anabolic but I am doing it two to three times and then I bought maps power lift. So I was gonna do that in September. Oh, I love that. That's awesome. That's perfect. That's great. Surplus. Oh yeah, I love that. Are you gonna be, are you gonna work in the fitness industry? Is this something you wanna do for a living? Yeah, you're on point. I thought about it guys. I'm an engineering now because I was like, I like people but I don't know if you guys are so sympathetic and I appreciate it but I'm not sure if I could do the same thing all the time. People who don't want to put into effort and stuff. I'll tell you what, if you like to make money, if you like to make money, stick to engineering. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. Well that explains your approach though. Your engineer mind for sure. So I see that. Yeah, I've been like planning this out in my head. Yeah. And you got a great strategy. I love the idea of, and you know what's great is the advice we would normally give someone at that time is, okay, now you're gonna be in the surplus. Don't freak out about the scale. Just think about strength and a Maps Power Lift is a perfect program to follow where all you're trying to do is get stronger. That's awesome. Do you have both programs? You have access to them both? Yeah, I have, I did, I was running performance but then just because of where I moved, it's like there's not a lot of equipment in my gym. So that's why I've transitioned to anabolic just to like maintain strength. I just, you know, I'm like, I don't wanna, and I've been eating pretty high protein too. For Power Lift, yeah, I'm just looking like I, again, like do you think like six, if I spend at least six months, say like mid-September to like, February or March in like a decent deficit or decent bulk, would that be adequate? Just cause like I'm again, like I just wanna, I really wanna see my strength just like skyrocket. Oh yeah. Oh no, you're gonna be fine. Yeah, six months is playing three months will be great. Yeah, just watch your calories and see how high they get. It'd be great if you could get your calories up to 2,800 calories not gaining any weight. What a great place to be in, right? I mean, I know I was different but I'm always baffled that like all C girls who are 5'4", and they are eating like 24 out of 2,800 calories.  No, you got the right at it, especially at your age. It makes me really happy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, love what you're doing. Can I give you a program? I wanna give you something, I like it. You want any program that you don't have in it? You're not gonna feel good if we don't. Okay, what are you guys, I mean, I've thought about doing aesthetic but I'm like, you guys say it's so high volume and I'm like, I don't know if I have performance. Do you have symmetry? Oh, maybe Prime Pro. Oh, Prime, oh, Prime Pro. I guess Prime Pro. I'll send it over to you. Yeah, my NAMM's just starting to do that too and I'm like, I wanna help her. So I figured Prime Pro would be great, I think. Perfect. Man, you're helping your grandma with workouts? Yeah, she's like, well, she gets inspired because I'm here, so I'm living with her for the summer. So she's like 70 and I was like trying to think I'm like, okay, what would Sal, Adam and Justin do here? So I think Prime Pro would be good. You had a great kid. Yeah, great. Your parents raised a great kid, good job. Yeah, thanks for calling in. I hope that helps you. Thanks guys, have a great day. Thank you. I really liked her. Yeah, man, nothing makes me happier than hearing a young, somebody young have the right attitude towards fitness because at that age, it's very common. I was this way at that age.  So to hear her at this age. She found us at 15, huh? Right, I mean. She totally gets it. She's gonna get through like, she's gonna not run into a lot of the problems, a lot of young girls run into because she kinda understands how her body works and what feels good and she's already valuing strength. Like that's great. Yeah, I think she's talking about it at her own point. That's phenomenal. That's phenomenal. Just so you know, or the audience knows that she could technically have gone the other way. She could. I just like the other way, personally. That's all. I mean, it's not the, the other way. It's a better long-term strategy. I think so. I think it's gonna set. Cause it's gonna be a natural cut. She's doubling or tripling her steps anyway. Yeah, yeah. There's no need to cut your calories at the same time. And she's at a place where she definitely has room to still increase her metabolism. And so I think that's a good direction, but it doesn't mean she was wrong with her initial thought. And I love what she's already set herself up for. So pretty excited for her. Our next caller is Juan from Texas. Juan, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Great, how are y'all? Good, good. All right. Perfect. So I'll get right into my question. So I've been lifting since I was in high school, but decided to make it a priority once I got into my senior year. So that's been a total of about six years on and off with the occasional spring break, vacation trip, stuff like that. So my workout split to begin with was kind of your bro split, but then I found maps, maps programs in my freshman year. So I have maps in a ball like map split, maps aesthetic, maps parlive, and then maps anywhere during the pandemic because I couldn't get into the gym, right? So recently I started losing a little bit more weight with my diet and everything. And I noticed an imbalance between my left and right trap. So once I saw that, I also started noticing an imbalance in my back and just kind of trickling down. So I wanted to see what you all had to say if there's any kind of unilateral exercise and stuff like that that I could directly go into. And I have the time that I can set aside to do it specifically. Just want to know what the general guideline is. Map symmetry, brother. Yeah, are you trying to get a free program? Hey, we got you, bro. We got you. The thing I didn't know is... Go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. No, no, go ahead, go ahead. Well, I didn't know exactly. I know map symmetry is more unilateral, but I didn't know if it's something I could add on to, like maps aesthetic or map split or something like that.  No, it's a program by itself. Follow map symmetry. You'll love it. It's a dope program. It'll balance you out. You'll build muscle, you'll get stronger. And because you've run so many of our programs, when you go back to one of those other programs, you're gonna see so many benefits. It is such an effective and needed workout program. So many people would benefit. That's why we wrote that program. It's the, I know it's good for you program. It is really effective. Trust the process, follow the program. You'll get a very aesthetic physique from it. And then when you go back to your traditional training, you'll notice some good strength gain. So hands down, map symmetry is the program you need to do. The one piece of advice I'll remind you going into it, probably if you've been listening long enough, you've heard us say this before, when you're doing you a lot of work, always start with the weaker side and allow that to dictate what you do on the dominant side, right? So don't let your strong side lead the workout and then try and keep up with it. Let the weaker side always run it and then mirror that. Even if you could do several more reps on the strong side, always stick with whatever that. Glad you said that. That makes a big difference. Perfect. And then what do you think I should run afterwards? I haven't had everything else. What's the last maps? What were you just doing recently? I'm on aesthetics right now.  I would go back to run anabolic after that. Although you know what? The end of symmetry is like the five by five like anabolic. So maybe go into what do you have? You have anabolic, you have split, you have aesthetic, you have power lift. Yes, sir. Oh, I'd love to see power lift. Yeah, power lift. Give that one. I'd love to see power lift after that. Perfect. About how long is maps symmetry? Nine weeks, I want to say. Okay. So it'll be just on that bokeh and typical time. Perfect. We'll send that over to you, Juan. Perfect, I appreciate it so much. You guys have a lovely day. You got it, man. Thank you. Does Jerry intentionally like try and make them match up as far as like- Yeah, as another kid, right? Yeah, I know. High school kid. Yeah, freshman years when he said he found that. I wish, I wish I had a podcast or something to listen to you at that age, man. I did, I followed. I tried, I looked for information so hard and all I could read were just massive supplement pamphlets for the magazine. Would you listen to us? Do you think you would listen to us? I would have. I'm cool. I had kids earlier. Yeah, I'm cool. I was reading textbooks. That's the problem is I think I would be too naive. I would think I'm too cool for you guys. Really? Yeah, I would. I'd be like- He's old. You don't think you would have liked yourself? No. You're pretty cool. No, I don't know. I'm wearing, I won't wear enough to have that cool anymore today. I find myself constantly having to hide myself. I'm broke, but I know I'm not. No, I would have loved it. I loved information. I read, I tried to read textbooks and stuff. You're probably most like, what do you think you would have? Well, just, I don't think I would have, no. I mean, I just, I think I would have been so driven in just that one direction of like athletics and we don't talk about it enough on the show, to be honest with you guys. I would, it would lose my interest, but that's sort of the funny conundrum, right? Like I'm even helping all these high school kids. There's probably like two of them that even listen to us. So it gives me like better perspective, I think within that. I think there's a lot of room there for more young people to attach, you know. Yeah, the conversations we have, I mean, I didn't become really growth-minded until like my mid-20s. So when I was in high school, I wasn't, the self-awareness was still just coming around at that. I would have fast forwarded our normal, like our non-fitness, I would have like fast forwarded to like the studies and tell me what to do. That's exactly what I was saying. Yeah, I would have fast forwarded all your talking and I would have gone to Justin and I talking about sports. Exactly, you guys, you do think they're cool? Well, these guys are hilarious, cool. Who's that nerdy guy, the nerdy student? You would have de-am'd yourself. That's right, you're cool too, Sal.  We went off on a side tangent there, but I mean, his very, this is why we wrote that program. I mean, symmetry is specifically for that. I mean, nobody has a perfectly balanced left to right, right? Everybody is off a little bit. Everybody will benefit from that. Yeah, and you can't recommend it enough to everybody. We get asked a lot, like, where does it go? Like if you've already been running maps, insert it next. I mean, it's like, if you've ran any maps programs already, then insert it next and then go back to another one. Dude, it's just gonna bolster your body for anything else you do. Totally. All right, our next caller is Christopher from New York. Excellent, how can we help you, man? Hey, guys, thanks for having me. Appreciate that. I'm just gonna read over what I have here just so I don't miss anything out. I stumbled onto you guys about three months ago. I heard you were railing against CrossFit. I love that. So I really got hooked. I'm that kind of guy here. I got hooked and I listen to you guys almost every day. All the past ones, all the new ones, it's really great. Here's my background. I'm 52 years old. I'm 5'8". Currently about 141, 142 pounds. I'm a captain with the New York City Fire Department for the past 20 years. I also do a lot of fitness training at the Fire Academy with upcoming firefighters. I share a lot of your information with them, hundreds of candidates. I give a lot of your take on fitness and how they can get better. I do a little personal training on the outside. I recently worked with LA Fitness. So here's what's going on. I've been competing in powerlifting for the last about 20 years. I've also been competing in natural bodybuilding for the last five years. I earned pro cards and bodybuilding, men's physique, open and master's. A week and a half ago, I competed in my 12th show. I prepped for about 10 months. I lost about 28 pounds. I got to about 3% body fat and my stage weight was 137 pounds, a little lean. Now that the show's over, I want to move focus back to powerlifting. I just can't do this to myself anymore. I put myself through a lot, molder and my family can't stand it. So I like powerlifting much more. I'd like to get back into it. Like you always say, I love the journey more than the goal. So it's kind of like losing its luster from a bodybuilding part of it. My nutrition, for the last year, I followed a whole food plant-based diet with little or no processed food. It works for me. It's very sustainable. I know how you got it, but it seems to be a natural for me. My calories, six weeks before the show, I was around 1800 calories. Since then, I've been reverse dieting at about 2500 calories. A protein like you suggest is 0.8 per body weight, but sometimes I get at least that probably more. My activity, my steps average between 15,000 to 18,000 steps per day. Cardio, the only cardio I've done in the past year is just walking. I take salivate, so I walk in the rain, snow, cold, you name it. I make sure I get that walk outside. I'm currently doing the map split. I responded well. It helped me for the show. So that program worked really well for me. Medically, I'm hypothyroid. Extremely sensitive to cold, probably because of thyroid. I have sleep apnea. I need to get a blood test because I know my testosterone is sinking down and also my strength is, I have no physical limitations. I've studied and practiced power lifting. I worked with a coach in the past. I also have a certification in power lifting myself, but I do feel that I have lost my muscle connection to those lifts. I don't, it doesn't feel the same as it used to and probably because I've drifted off a little bit. Supplements, in the past year, really all I would take it was just multivitamins. About a week ago, suggestions pre-team, PCAAs and a protein supplement. My training, I train exclusively at home and at work. I train every day. I like to train at 4 a.m. I know people I work with think I'm crazy, but I find that soothing and I find that works for me. And I follow that by my walks. I know my sleep is a problem. I have sleep apnea. I always have to use the bathroom in the middle of the night. Trying to sleep in the fly house is almost possible. And I'm out. But since the show, my quality sleep got better. Since after the show, my quality sleep is much better than it was. And I feel it's better on the plant-based diet. Now, these made of my question. My question is, what's your advice in transitioning my focus from bodybuilding back to powerlifting? And do you think MAPS strong with MAPS powerlifting is the way to go? I like MAPS power, two things. First off, I appreciate what you do. The fire department there, we're always very appreciative of that work and the lives you guys saved. So that's, thank you for that. But let's address the question. First of all, you got everything dialed in. You know what you're doing. You've done this for a long time. I think MAPS powerlifting would be a great program. You're on the reverse diet. You're going in the right direction. Here's the advice I'm going to give you. I think you should work with a functional medicine practitioner to address the hyperthyroid and the sleep apnea and the health stuff and the hormone stuff. I think that's going to give you the biggest bang for your buck in terms of adding something new that's going to give you some, pay you back some dividends. I really think that would be a good idea. We have a- I do go to end the chronologist for the thyroid. He evaluates me. Actually, it's coming up soon, but he does evaluate me for the hyperthyroid. So it's different than it- Okay, so in a doctoranologist, they're very good with the hormones. Obviously, they're the best in the world with that. But a functional medicine practitioner, what they do is they look at the entire picture and how things are working together and they'll work with your hormone specialist or hormone doctor. So there may be some things that you're missing that you're not quite sure of, which is why I'm going to recommend going to a functional medicine practitioner. Not only that, but an endo will always try and like, here's a prescription. You're lacking this, here's this hormone to fix this versus a functional practitioner. We'll look at it and go, wait, there's some holistic things that we may be able to do first. Maybe we can increase magnesium here, add some zinc or work on- Maybe you got heavy metal.  I mean, I can tell by what you're saying, how you've competed, you've been training a long time. You know your stuff. I'm not going to tell you anything in fitness and really with nutrition that I think is going to blow your mind or surprise you. I think I'm going to tell you stuff you already know, but the functional medicine practitioner, unless you've worked with one before, I think you might, there may be some value there. Now, maybe not, maybe you go and they're like on everything- It did work with somebody, but they prescribed the testosterone cream. I didn't feel good about it. I didn't like it. I felt like they talked me into it. I don't think they really- Yeah. So the functional medicine practitioners that we would recommend, don't recommend hormones. They're not hormone specialists. That would recommend you to a hormone specialist is if they thought that was the direction you needed to go. So we have a forum on Facebook, it's free. It's mpholistichealth.com. Go there, ask some questions. And if you like, so we've gone through and we said these are the best people. Some of the best people that we think people can work with. Ask some questions, see what you think. Cause I don't, there's really nothing much else I could tell you that I think will help you aside from going in that direction. And your question about Power Lift and Strong, I would say, yeah, they both are gonna work for you. So I'd run Power Lift first, run strong and then go back to Power Lift. If you're trying to time a meat, I would run it like that, right? So I would go, obviously you wanna run Power Lift. Power Lift is designed to get you ready for a meat. So you, if you had a meat in mind, make sure you're running Power Lift. But toggling back and forth between Power Lift and Strong will be a great program to work on the big lifts that you wanna get strong. Yeah, but to be honest, you're certified in Power Lifting Training. You've been doing it for a while, you competed. You know, I would look at Maps Power Lift and then I would modify it based off of what you know about your body. Because remember, it's a program we wrote for the general audience. But you've got a lot of experience and you're gonna look at it and you're probably gonna say, you know what, that doesn't work too well for me. I've done it before. I think I wanna add a set here, take one off there. So that's what I'll recommend as well. Typically I tell someone to follow it to a tee, but someone with your experience and knowledge, I would say, look at it as a framework and then modify it based off of what you know about your body. Yeah, you know a lot about the performance end of everything. And I think that like Sal's right in terms of that. We don't have a whole lot of suggestion in that direction, but like just taking care of your body, like from a holistic health perspective, I think, just appearing into that, leaning into that a little bit further, you know, with some of these issues, the apnea and everything else, I think would be massively beneficial for your long-term, you know, performance and everything else that you're involved in. Yeah, at the bare minimum, getting into that free form, it's free. And Dr. Cabral comes in there every other week and does live questions. So you get a chance to interact with him for free and then maybe take some, do some of the tests, do some of the hair tests and blood work. I've done that in the past. You have. Okay, good. I have done that. I know that the food said I have high sensitivity to and metals and stuff like that. I have done that. Okay, how long ago was that? Maybe two years ago. Okay, yeah, you know, so I try to do it every year just because things can change. Like for example, I saw that I had some mercury in my blood, which when I tested before, I didn't have that. So obviously something, I'm exposed to something that's causing a little bit of a mercury buildup on my system. So now I'm following a protocol to get rid of that. But look, here's the deal. You may find that you're doing everything right, but my point is of all the directions I could point you towards that for potential benefit, that'd be the one. I don't think me coaching you on power lift things is gonna benefit you more than maybe what you already know. I don't think I can help you with nutrition unless I really break down your diet. But that would be a whole hour you and I having a conversation. There's not much I can advise you where I think the dividends could be valuable except for what I said with functional medicine. That doesn't mean that you're going to find anything new or cool or anything that's gonna help you, but it's the potential is the highest in that direction just based off of what you told us.  I just had Doug do a screenshot of your thing. It's now my wallpaper. So this is my goal. You're my goal for 52 years old, bro. So you're winning, you're winning, dog. I don't know, that's creepy that you put pictures of guys in it. It's his thing, I love that. So I hope that helps you out a little bit. Do you have MAPS PowerLift or MAPS Strong, Chris? I don't. All right, I'll send over MAPS PowerLift to you, okay? All right, I appreciate that. That was very nice of you. Thank you guys. You got it, my friend. And again, thanks for what you do, man. Keep saving lives out there. Thank you, I appreciate that. Thanks for all you do. I appreciate that too. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, I mean, you know, not that, again, I want to emphasize this, not that a functional medicine practitioner is going to find anything, but of all the areas I could point to, based on what he said. Motherfucker's dial, bro. I know. He's like, it's hard. I think he came on just to flex. Tell me that. Just to let us know. Yo, I'm going to do two. I'm going to do two. I've done this, I've done that.  I'm certified. I've been doing this for a long time. I've been talking about reverse dieting. I mean, yeah, no, he's killing it. He looks phenomenal for his age. He's got good bow. I mean, he's got a lot of things going for him, man. So I agree. I think that the potential is the highest. There's all I'm saying, because it sounds like that would be the place that he would be least likely to look or to change or modify anything is in that kind of holistic space.  Yeah, he's got more, he's got 12 shows in his bow. It's double what I have. Yeah. So that's a long time. I mean, I could totally feel for his family and he was saying that, like how they don't like it. Yeah, yeah, no, that's, that was the one thing about competing.  I didn't want to do, that's why it was so easy for me to walk away. As much as I loved doing it and love the journey and the process of it, how taxing it was. It's so selfish, right? It's very selfish and you'd make a lot of sacrifice on social things that I think are important, you know? Look, if you like the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam. You can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. How do I incorporate cardio and not lose muscle? Seen people do this before where they'll start to lose the sharpness of their muscles or they'll start to lose the sculpt a little bit. And that's disheartening. But if you do it right, then you minimize that muscle loss or that metabolism slowdown. In fact, if you do it right, you can actually speed up your metabolism at the same time that you build stamina and endurance. You just have to be able to kind of program it properly. And the way to program it improperly is just go do it as much cardio as you can for as long as you can. Right.