everybody. I think we are about ready to go ahead and get started with our next installment of this webinar series that we're doing called the Microsoft 365 certified developer. Today we're going to be covering Microsoft Teams. I just want to do a quick check and make sure that everyone can both see me and hear me and if you would just raise your hand so that I can see you and the zoom chat to make sure that you can both see and hear me which you can absolutely fantastic. All right, so let's go ahead and let's get started. Again, my name is Andrew Connell and today we're going to be going through Microsoft Teams. Microsoft Teams, what you need to know to get certified for the Microsoft 365 certification for developers, we're going to focus on Microsoft Teams. Now, before we go into this too too much, I want to first start and talk a little bit explain who I am really quick. Just give you a brief overview. My name is Andrew Connell. I'm a technically an office development MVP. I've been doing SharePoint development now for, oh my goodness, a very, very, very, very long time. I'm about 17 years. And I'm also on the core team for the patterns and practices group with Microsoft 365 dev. I do spend a lot of time in the SharePoint development repository, maintaining our issue list and addressing questions that come in and triage them and stuff like that. I have a podcast that we released weekly episodes related to Microsoft 365 and Azure topics. And then I have a training business as well where I focus on SharePoint framework development and in the SharePoint framework development category, I guess, I've got a course called Mastering the SharePoint framework for developers to get up to speed on the SharePoint framework, actually released a new chapter for that course yesterday to the ultimate bundle, all about working with using GitHub actions and Azure pipelines, either or to end SharePoint framework projects to automate the build testing and deployment process of your SharePoint framework based apps. But that's not why you tuned in today. Today you tuned in for Microsoft Teams. Now, before we dive into this, into too much of this, I want to give you a little bit of an overview on why should you pay attention to me as a, in this webinar and why should you listen to me in terms for the Microsoft 365 development? Well, did I lose that slide? No, I didn't. Okay. So what is the certification? What does it cover? Well, there's five different workloads and we're going to talk about what the certification is, what you need to be able to achieve the certification. And today we're going to focus on one of the workloads that you need to you need to be versed in to be able to become certified. Before we go too much into this webinar, I do want to just remind you, if you haven't tuned in to any of the previous ones, while there is a chat feature in our webinar and you're welcome to use that, I'm not staying on top of the chat as much, please feel free to post your questions to the question and answer panel. I will keep an eye on that. I will try to answer questions as they're relevant as we're going through the content. But if they're not relevant, or if they're kind of not relevant to the specific thing we're talking about that time, then I'll tackle those questions at the very end. And now I look at the camera, I can see that my face is all white on one side because the sun just came out. So sorry about that. All right, so we got five different workloads that you're going to be tested on for the Microsoft 365 certified developer. You've got Azure Identity, which is really just Azure AD, you got Microsoft Graph, you've got SharePoint, you've got Microsoft Teams and you've got Office Add-ins. Now this webinar series, we're doing all five of these workloads and we've now reached the Microsoft Teams section of this series. You may be wondering, why should you be listening to me to talk to you about this stuff? Well, the reason why is because I was involved in helping Microsoft develop the certification and I've taken the exam and I've passed the exam and there's my proof that I've passed the exam. I took a beta version of the exam back in February of 2020 and I passed, but it is a the exam that I took is a little bit different from what you guys would take if you took it today. And the reason why is because as a beta, they were really what they're really trying to do is they're trying to get people to answer the questions or to take the exam and answer the questions. And in doing that, what it does, it helps them understand people who should be passing the exam, why are they not passing it and vice versa. And so it tells them if they have good questions or bad questions and stuff like that that they need to address and fix up. But for the most part, the exam that I took is going to be very similar if not identical to the one that you're going to take. You have to you have to pat to in order to become certified, you have to pass the exam at a 70% or higher. So you have to get 700 out of 1000 points or something higher than 700. Here's how I did on it. You can see based between the different workloads, some workloads I was stronger and others. And the reason why I share this is because you don't have to be an expert at all five of these different workloads. As you can see here, one of them I was clearly deficient in office add-ins compared to, say, my experience with SharePoint or Microsoft Graph or Microsoft Identity, or even Teams in this case. So, you know, don't feel like you have to nail this stuff right when that you actually have to nail it. And you have to get you have to be an expert at all of these different technologies. Don't don't think that at all because that's not the case. Okay, so now let's talk a little bit here about the exam itself. So, the way that this works, the way Microsoft does their certifications, especially for developers, is they're looking to measure you on one of five different three different levels. It's the foundational level. It's the fundamental or the associate level. And it's the expert level. Now, Microsoft has their definitions for it. Let me explain what what I how I see their definitions and how they relate to the certification for that you need to pass for the Microsoft 365 certified developer associate. So, foundational is someone who is thinking of them like a technical presale. Someone who they know the technology, but they maybe can't go implement it on their own. So, I could walk in, like, for example, if my car was broken down, then I could walk into a mechanic and we could have a conversation. He could say, well, this is wrong and this is wrong. And I could say, well, here's the problems are going on. I think it's the alternator. I think it's this is broken. And here's why I can speak to speak. I can maybe, you know, tell him, here's what needs to be done. But I've got no experience in being able to do those things. He's the expert. He's the one that has got the experience to do it. So, an associate or foundational level is someone who can, who can talk about the technology and they know the capabilities and they can maybe like design on a whiteboard, a solution to what you're trying to achieve, but they may not be able to actually do it. The next kind of knowledge level that you're going to be, that you can be tested at is the associate level. And the associate level is someone who is, has four years of experience in this technology and should be able to go through and do this stuff on their own. In the case of, in the case of this certification that we're doing, clearly that's not verbatim because Microsoft Teams and SharePoint framework, they haven't been around for four years. So it's impossible to say you've got four years of experience, but the idea is that you have that kind of level of experience. You don't have to have that exact experience, but you have to have that kind of background. And somebody that's an associate, I should be able to hire that person and then have her get put on a project and be able to go implement a solution that I give her without having to, you know, to stand over her shoulder and to help and explain, here's how this works and that works. They've got the experience to do it. The associate level is what they're testing you for. That's the level that you're supposed to be at for the Microsoft 365 certified developer associate. That's the certification that they're doing. And you can see a link there in the middle of the slide that refers to the certification itself. The expert level is someone that is all the way at the high level. They're the ones that need to be able to do, they need to be able to know how to do everything. Right? They need to know how to not only be able to do the technology, to implement a solution using the technology that's provided to them, but they're also someone who's got a level of experience and knowledge that they could teach someone. Okay? They can go even further. You are not being tested at the expert level. Okay? The kind of questions that you're going to see that are APIs or code related questions, everything is multiple choice. You're not going to be asked to code anything. The nice thing about this is that what you are going to be asked to do is you may be given some code and ask, what does this do and give a bunch of options? Or you may say, how would you do this? And then they give you some code options and you have to choose the one that makes that is the correct answer. Or you choose the one that would not solve the problem. It depends on what the question says. That's the kind of stuff that you're getting asked. So when I keep referring to an exam and assert the certification or the cert, the certification, think of that as like your trophy for passing the exam. The exam is that first link you see there on the slide. That's the MS 600. Okay? That's the MS 600 exam. That's the one that you're going to end up having to pass. Okay? Seeing a couple of questions come in on the chat. Make sure you guys post them to the QA managers. I'm not going to be able to focus on the chat because there's a lot of stuff. There's people kind of chat back and forth and simulate private messages and stuff. And it's hard to keep up with that and filter out the questions. That's what a QA panel is for. All right. So, and hey, if you're watching the recording of this in some time in the future, you are more than welcome to post a question in the comments at the bottom of the page where this recording is posted. Okay. Speaking of that, what are we covering today? Well, this webinar series, I have a six part webinar series that we're running the entire month of May and it is all about the certification. The first five are all about the workloads. We are on Microsoft team. So we are on episode four of the series. I've got two more next Tuesday on May the 19th and next Thursday on May the 21st. Those are going to cover the last workload off his add-ins. And then we're going to do a little, have a little bit of fun. We're going to go behind the scenes and see what does it take for Microsoft to, what's involved with them in building a certification? What do you, what was the experience like? What was my involvement like? Stuff like that. Bring your questions if you're curious about that stuff. More than happy to share it with you. I'll even share with you what it was like in taking the exam from home and how they do all the stuff they do to make sure you don't cheat. They do a really good job. Okay. And hey, I'll also share with you some of my insights too on this. I was someone in the past where I always thought these certifications were not terribly great because I'm like, you know, the people that write the questions, they don't know what they're talking about. And, you know, the questions they just put them out there and no one's really making sure that they're good questions. And there's no oversight. I will tell you what, I'll explain to you what they do behind the scenes. And it's, it's impressive. I totally changed my perspective on it once I walked out of there. Once I walked out of that experience in 2019. Okay. If you missed any of the previous ones, including if you want to watch the one that we're doing right now, go to the link that you see there on the bottom of the slide, the vtns.io Get M365 Dev Certified Series. That is going to cover, it has links to all the future webinars that I'm doing for this series and where you can register for them. And it will also, also updating that post every time we publish the recording for the webinar as well. So all the previous three webinars have already been recorded. They've already been published and they're available for viewing on demand. All right. So, oh man, why does that say SharePoint at the top? That's supposed to say Teams. So in fact, I'm going to change that really quick because that's just dumb. Oh, wow, and that's wrong too. TEA, there we go. Gee, Christmas. So let's go back. Let's do that. And it looks like I got to fix. It's not sharing my slides. So hold on. Let's just double, let's just fix that really briefly. Let's see. So that is, if I'm not mistaken, that is supposed to be, oh, the screen is frozen. And that's what it should be showing, right? Yeah, that's what it should be showing. Okay, cool. All right. Now, okay. So what do you, what's up with the Microsoft Teams section? We're going to cover that right now. So what the Microsoft Teams section of the certification is going to, it covers, it takes up about 15 to 20% of the exam. And the reason why that's a variable in there is because there's a pool of questions for each one of these different workloads and not, you're not going to get questions from all of them, okay? You're not going to get all, you're not going to get questions, you're not going to get all the teams questions. You're going to get some of them. You're going to get a subset. So if you go take the exam and I go take the exam, we may not get the exact same questions, right? And that's why you really, the cheating aspect to it, you just, you shouldn't even try. I mean, you should know this stuff. There's a reason why you need to know this stuff. As far as the technologies go, what kind of things are going to be, you know, aside from Microsoft Teams, what do you need to know? All of the questions related to Microsoft Teams are all going to be using the JavaScript SDK. And all of the, the background stuff is all based on Node.js. And I don't, I'm almost positive that 100% of it is all TypeScript based. And the reason why they did that is they wanted to go with the biggest audience of people who are not just, you know, .NET Core people. So they went with Node.js and TypeScript and maybe in the future, they'll have other versions of the exam that focus on other technologies. But they figure, hey, you've already got to know TypeScript for a lot of the other stuff that you're going to do, like SharePoint framework and Office Add-ins. So they would did the same thing with Microsoft Teams. Some things you can completely ignore that you don't need to worry about as far as underlying technologies is ignore web frameworks. So like, for example, in Microsoft Teams, you can use React. And you may be familiar with, at least today at the time we're talking about this and recording this webinar, the story about the UI controls is kind of in flux. We had the stuff that Teams, the Teams group originally published. We had the stuff that it then morphed over to using their recommendation towards the end of 2019 was to use the library Stardust, which was a themeable React controls. And since then, they're now saying, no, you want, we want you to use Fluent, the Fluent UI. And just so you know that it's the Fluent UI is Stardust. It's just they're merging Fluent kind of Office UI fabric, they're merging all that stuff together. You don't need to know this, okay? You don't need, they're not going to test you on those controls. They're only going to test you on the Microsoft Teams specific stuff. You may see some stuff in a question that showed, that looks like there's some Fluent or stuff in there, some UI stuff or some Reacty stuff in there. But it's not something you have to know as part of the tech, okay? You don't, you're not going to be quizzed on that. So you don't have to worry about knowing that stuff. Now, there is a some self-paced learning that is available. If you want to get up to speed on Microsoft Teams, I would highly recommend it because I wrote it. But it's available today. It's published. And it's at that link that you see there at the bottom of the slide. Alright, so let's talk about the topics that you're going to need to know with this. Surprise, I'm getting hardly any questions with this. I got, let's see, one question came in is the version of .NET Core, the 3.1 version, sorry, it's off topic. I think we are, I think I just answered that one, Jim. That is not, it's not at all pertinent to this module or sorry to this workload. But I believe all of the, any other questions that you would have on the exam from other workloads, they will, they will be, when they use .NET Core, they will use either 3.0 or 3.1. .NET Core 3.0 or 3.1. 3.0, I should say. I see somebody asked about going back to the last slide for that link for the recordings. Don't worry about it. I'm going to get it to the very end. Let's, we're developers in a cloud world, you fail forward. You don't revert back. You always fail forward. We'll come back to it, Michael. You'll get another chance to get the link. Okay, now let's talk about the some of the things you need to know. So one thing you need to know are the components of a Teams app. So what does that mean? You need to understand what it means to build a custom app for Microsoft Teams and what things are involved in doing that. You're going to have an app manifest.  The, let's see, you need to know like that's a manifest file, manifest.json file that's in the, that's in every single one of your apps. You also need to know a little bit of stuff about App Studio. So App Studio is an app that you can install. It's a Teams app that you can install in your Microsoft Teams instance from the store, from the team store. Everybody has access to it. And it allows you to do things like design cards, modify the app manifest, adding bots, or adding a bot that you've built. It doesn't just, it's not like a bot build or wizard. Adding tabs, stuff like that. You also need to understand what are the different components inside of the app package that you're going to deploy to Microsoft Teams. And the easy part there is you're only deploying three things, two different images for the different ways you can, it can be rendered and the manifest. It's kind of, Teams is interesting. You're not really deploying anything to Teams. You're simply making Teams aware of stuff that lives outside. You have to host everything yourself, whether it's a bot, whether it's a messaging extension, whether it's a tab, everything lives outside of Microsoft Teams. Teams just loads your stuff. You also need to understand the options for distributing a Teams app. I just went through that. You know, what things do you, where is stuff going to go? The only thing that really matters when you deploy something with Teams is it's got to be a routable HTTPS endpoint. That's, I mean, that's it. It can't be on local host. It can't be on local host. That's one thing that we know we can't do. So that makes development a little tricky, but there's ways to get around that. There's tools that you can use to get around that. Another thing you need to understand are the concept of what a deep link is and what a task module is. So a deep link, that's easy. That's when I want to create a link. And if I send it to you, it will launch Teams and maybe take you straight to a specific message, or it'll take you straight to my tab, or it'll take you straight to a task module. That's a deep link. That's going to get you into Teams and give you some context on what you're doing. How can you, what are the benefits to using deep links? How do you use them? And then a task module, what is that? Task modules, I mean, you got to love Microsoft, right? They come up with a name for everything, even if it doesn't even need a name. They come up with a name for it. And the Teams group is no different. A task module is just a dialogue. So it's how we do dialogues in Microsoft Teams. Why didn't they call it a dialogue? Because marketing guys are bored, right? And they have to justify their existence. Drives me crazy. But hey, that's Microsoft. I can't, you can't drive that. All right. Another question, another thing that comes up, you need to understand the topic of web hooks and Microsoft Teams. There are three different types of web hooks, really two, but like they're the second one is like an A and a B. So there's two different ways you can do web hooks. There is an outgoing web hook. So first of all, you need to understand when would you use them? Why would you use them? And when would you use them? And I would almost argue that this should be like the last thing you should study, right? Because this is like the easy way of doing like a bot in a way.  And it's some web service that I've created. The opposite of that is an incoming web hook. And that is you register that in Teams. Teams gives you a URL, an endpoint, and then from your custom app that you build, you do an HTTP post to that endpoint and it will add that as a message in Microsoft Teams. And there's some security stuff around that and everything that you have to do. Same thing with outgoing. And then the third type or like to be of incoming web hooks is something called an Office 365 connector. And what that is, is that is simply a way for you, it makes it makes creating the incoming web hook a little bit easier and a little more wizard D, not wizard D, but wizard D, you know, no R in there. I want to mean by that is like when you do an incoming web hook, you have to go register it and then they give you the endpoint and then you've got to take that endpoint and go register it in your external web service or external app so it knows where to make the post to. And that's all a manual process. A Office 365 connector is something that you can deploy to your channel or to your team. And when you go to deploy it, you get in a configuration experience, which is just a web page. And when that web, when you save the configuration experience, you have the option to go grab that URL that they created and submit that over to your app or your end point to save it with so there's no manual interaction. It's a much more like power user friendly way of installing an internal an incoming web hook. You should also understand what the limitations are of web hooks, the fact that they are only going to be registered with a team on a team, a team by team basis, which is it is a manual process to set those up and that's a pain. You also can't register those inside of your app manifest. So those are all these limitations and you can see like, okay, that may work for like a one off, but then what if I want to do it in a much more repeatable fashion? Well, that's where some of the other things that we can do that we can do, we'll come back, we'll come into those. Another thing you need to understand, tabs. Hey, you know what, I totally forgot, I meant to ask you guys this question. A poll just showed up inside of the Zoom client. Would you let me know? Are you guys, are you thinking about taking this exam? Are you definitely taking the exam? Are you not going to take it? Or have you already taken it? I don't know, why would you watch this if you're already going to take it? Maybe you're evaluating this for maybe your friends. So I'm just curious how many of you are interested in taking this exam. And most people have voted, that's awesome. So it looks like we got like, hey, let's do, let me go ahead and end this. I'll give you five more seconds, four, three, two, one, and we're shutting it down. Okay, now, so check this out. 80% of you said, yes, you are planning on taking the exam. That's awesome. I mean, I'm glad you're not wasting your time here. 18% like, yeah, maybe, well, I wonder, do me a favor, put it in the chat or put it in the question. Why maybe, what's your concern? Like, is it, I don't know if I'm qualified for it, or you don't have the experience or what is it? Hey, another pair of questions I would like to ask you. So what about, okay, now, this is a pair of questions, okay, that you're going to get, there's two of them in this poll. The first, they're both asking you almost the same thing, but there's one difference to each one. The first one says, of all five of these workloads, teams, identity, graph, SharePoint at office add-ins, which one do you have the most experience, or are you the strongest at? And then the second question is the exact opposite. Which one are you have the least experience with, or are you the weakest at? Okay. So I'm just curious here. All right, cool. So interesting. So I'll let this go for, let's say another, let's go another five seconds. So four, three, two, one. All right, check this out. So you guys overwhelmingly have said that you're the strongest at SharePoint. And then a couple of you said identity, like impressive. I said that's, that is a, I don't know, identity is an interesting one. I think, I don't think identity is that hard. I think that Microsoft has done a great job at making auth and identity hard. I can't stand the way that they pitch it, but it is what it is. The next thing, another question was, what about the weakest? Where do you have the least experience with? Every webinar saying the same thing. Office add ends. I get it, me too. You saw my scores at the beginning of this webinar. That's where I'm the weakest at too. And then it's around some a little bit of a balance between graph and identity. Okay, cool. Well, let's keep going then. We'll come back in just a bit. We have one more question asking a little bit later. All right. So the neck, another technology that you need to be aware of with Microsoft teams are tabs and you want to, you need to be aware of when would you use a tab and the different kinds of tabs? What are the different capabilities of tabs? You probably should be aware of the fact that they had old names and they have new names associated with them because the old names are what we use in the SDK and in the manifest and the APIs, whereas the new names is what all the docs say. So the new names are personal tabs and configurable tabs and the old names are channel tabs and static tabs. Yeah. Okay. So you need to understand, oh, sorry, I kind of got that wrong. It was, it used to be configurable and static. And now it's channel and personal. That's what I meant. So what do you need to understand? What can you do with a personal tab? Not only what it says, what are the capabilities, but you kind of know what the limitations are too with it. I remember a question that we talked about the limitations as well. Same thing related to channel tabs. How are they different from personal tabs, compare and contrast, something like that? So you should be able to do, you should be able to answer compare and contrast, personal tabs and channel tabs and why is, why would you use one, what scenarios would you use one in and what scenarios would you use the other one in? Okay. The nice thing is I don't think you can, you wouldn't really, you shouldn't have much of a hard decision trying to figure out which one you would use when presented with the option of creating tabs. You also should understand any requirements related to tabs as they are for mobile clients because there are some additional requirements and there are also some challenges that you can run into when it comes to working with the mobile clients. I'd like for the mobile clients to kind of get finally get updated and support all the stuff we can have in the thick client in the browser or the desktop clients, but I'd also like for there not to be a global pandemic going on as I'm sure everybody would. Okay. So now let's talk another technology that you need to know or another aspect, another configuration you can do in Microsoft Teams. You need to understand messaging extensions. So you need to understand what are these, how to use them, where are they available, what are their capabilities and what are the different types. So messaging extensions, if you, if you're not aware, these give you the ability to either augment an existing message like in a conversation or it gives you an ability to kind of pre-fill the compose box in the Teams client. So you have three different ways you can launch it either from that command bar at the very top. You go to an existing message and you click the dot dot dot and open that up and you can pick the messaging extension you've created to trigger it. Or you can launch it from the little icons below the compose box at the bottom of the conversations or the chat tab, whatever it's called these days. There are two different kinds of messaging extensions. There's an action and a search messaging extension. You should know the difference between the two of those. You should understand how to use each one of them. What are the capabilities of a search command, a search extension? What are the capabilities of a action command?  So it doesn't say this on the slide but make sure you take a note of this. You should know what methods you're going to be implementing and you should really also know if you are not using the SDK, how does your web service know that it's a messaging extension search or action command? In addition, you should also know how to use, how to respond or how to set up your extension or your response from the messaging extension using both just text-based responses and adaptive cards. We just published a brand new module yesterday or two days yesterday or two days ago. I think it was two days ago, whatever. We just published a new module to Microsoft Learn about creating engaging experiences or engaging messages with adaptive cards. That's a pretty good one. One of the sections of that deals with Microsoft Teams. Let's see. Is that everything you need to know? Yeah, that's everything you should, I think that's about everything you're going to need to know. Yeah, I think so. Okay. All right. This is my last one. I love this picture. This is how I envision when I'm talking to a bot. That's just this guy going in. I don't know why I envision it this way because he has no hands and no mouth, so I don't know how he's typing or doing speaking, whatever he's doing, or she. You need to understand how bots work. There was actually one more thing I forgot that was related to messaging extensions and how under the covers you're using the bot framework to communicate between your web service that implements the extensions and the messaging extension in Microsoft Teams. As far as conversational bots go, you should also know that you're creating a web service and that web service is going to communicate with Microsoft Teams through the bot framework that's hosted in Microsoft Azure and that's a service that's available to you. You should understand when to use conversational bots. You should understand when it does not make sense to create a bot. Conceptually, when it doesn't make sense, like if you've got a long complicated experience, probably not the best thing to use a bot. You should understand when you're going to create a bot that maybe you don't want to always do a text-based bot. Maybe you want your bot to respond with adaptive cards. You should know how to do that and you should know how to, from a bot, you should know how to launch a task module to collect information from a user in like a wizard experience. You should know how to scope a bot. How do you make it available just to the personal scope? How do you make it available to a group chat or to an entire channel or team? You should also know that when you do that, what are the implications or how do you talk to that bot if it's in the personal scope or if it's in the group chat scope or if it's in the team or channel scope? How do you talk to it? When do you have to app mention it? When do you not have to app mention it? Those are all things that you need to know. You guys haven't asked that hardly. You've only asked like two questions the entire time. This is amazing. Guess what? We may be finishing this webinar really early because that was my last slide. That's all the stuff that you need to know about teams. So these main different things, task modules, messaging extensions, bots, tabs, and then the last one was like the manifest and the app studio tool. So you need to understand how all that stuff works. Okay. So before I go back, go over to questions. So if you got a question, now's a great time to post it because we're going to be running out of time fairly soon and we're not going to leave the webinar running just to fill up the entire hour. We're about 25 minutes. We got 24 minutes left. So plenty of time to ask questions. So first again, this is the slide I showed earlier. So it's a quick little rehash. This is all of the different, these are all of the different webinars and we're doing in the, all the different episodes we're doing in this webinar series around each one of the different workloads. So the three previous ones, the recording has already been published and is available for you guys to go take a look at. This one for Microsoft Teams, I hope to actually publish it a little bit earlier than I did, and then I've done it in the past. I think I might be able to because if you can't tell that the webinar is being, it looks a little bit different from the previous ones. And I'm actually using some different software to deliver it and it shouldn't allow me to, I think I have a recording locally. I won't know until we stop it. So yeah, we'll get, we'll get going in just a minute. And then for the future webinars that we're doing on next Tuesday, we're going to talk about office add-ins, which I would expect you're going to get a pretty big crowd for that one considering most every webinar we've done, people are like, that's the one I know the least about. And then the one we'll do next Thursday, I'm looking forward to that one. I keep getting all these questions about behind the scenes and stuff about the behind the scenes of the building the certification and what that was like and how Microsoft does it. Because it's interesting. I always think that whenever you, whenever you, whenever you are trying to learn something, when you understand somebody's motivation and how they did stuff, it gives you the best perspective on how to deal with it. All right, so I'm a SharePoint framework guy. And I find that when I understood what Microsoft's motivations were for introducing the SharePoint framework, a lot of stuff got a lot easier. If you need links for go to register for any of the webinars or to watch any of the recordings that link is there at the bottom of the slide, I will leave that up while we're answering questions so you guys can take a look at it. One of the things I do want to ask before we get close to wrapping this up, I see a bunch of questions have come in. So we'll come we'll come back to that is so I'm actively exploring when I finish the current course that I'm working on the SharePoint framework development course is creating a bootcamp for people who want to get ramped up and pass the MS 600 exam. And what I'm curious on, if you wouldn't mind just giving me your opinion here, I've asked this question, I know a bunch of times, is that something you'd be interested in? It is not going to be it's, you know, people keep asking this question, let me just go and answer the questions like I asked about this. It is not going to be a gigantic like, you know, 20 hour course, it's not going to be something like that. The goal is, is that I want you to be able to watch the entire course and no more than a day. But you may have some a lot of studying that you have to do and a lot of stuff that you need to get up to speed on you won't just be able to watch the course and then go take it. And the reason why is because I'm going to take advantage of a lot of a lot of free content that's already out there. And instead of, you know, saying the same things you can get for free, I'm going to make the course a little bit shorter and be able to charge a lot less for it. How much is it going to be everyone asked that? I'm not entirely sure I'm shooting for a price I'm shooting for a price between, you know, below $250, I think it's going to be below 200. I don't know. We'll see when I get there. I haven't, I haven't spent the time really scoping it out yet. And exactly how it's going to be built up and everything. So cool. Thank you guys very much for your feedback on that. I really do appreciate that. All right, let's do some questions. Holy moly, look at the chat chat just went crazy pretty quick. I'm going to go in, we're going to talk, I'm going to focus on the questions first. So Michael asked about that link. So there's the link on the slide that you can grab for watching, for getting the previous recordings. So that's one that we just did. Andrew B, what do they mean by deploying a bot into a one to one static channel in the context of an IT help desk? Oh, so when you deploy a bot and like to one on one, that's a personal that goes in the personal scope or used to be known as the static scope or the static a static tab. That's when you are having a conversation with the bot, you're not having a conversation with the bot, like in a in the conversations tab, where everybody else in the channel can see it, or in a group chat, a one on one is just you going back and forth with the bot. So yeah, maybe a help desk or something like that, but nobody else can see it. Andrew, Andrew A, sorry, Michael A. Can you speak to who Microsoft thought would be the target of the certification? Who would get certified? And what would they do with it? So I'll go into this a little bit more next Thursday, but I'll answer your question now as well. So the reason Microsoft came up with this certification companies and their customers were asking Microsoft for some way to be able to measure and to validate that people that someone was capable of doing in 365 development work. They wanted that certification not only for their own employees, but they wanted it also for people that they were hiring. So I what I should be able to do is that if I need to go hire someone to do Microsoft 365 development work, maybe it's on Office Add-ins, maybe it's on Teams, maybe it's on SharePoint, but I, you know, whatever it is, I should be able to hire them and know that if they are certified, then I feel comfortable that they know enough to be able to they know enough to be productive and to be able to build solutions. If they were not certified, then I really don't know if they just say that they know it and they don't really know it. So it was this is mainly driven based on customer demand. Customers were asking Microsoft for this. You know what? Let's do, let's do this there. Okay. I answer questions this way. So that's the main thing of why they were doing, why they set this up. Okay. They wanted to make sure that people were, had certain technical capabilities when they were going to get a job and for companies to be able to evaluate those people at that level. So who is really designed for it? It's, if you're doing work development work around Teams or SharePoint or Office Add-ins, well, you're going to be doing something with Microsoft Graph. That's the API to everything inside of Microsoft 365 and everything is founded on Azure AD. That's the common denominator. So I know that if I hire you, you know Azure AD and you know Microsoft Graph, or at least you're, you know enough about it to where you can be productive and I don't need to, I don't need to train you up on Graph or Azure AD based development. What it doesn't do is it doesn't, I mean, I very well could hire somebody that is Microsoft 365 development certified and they know nothing about SharePoint because the certification, it enables that. There's up to 25% of the questions on the exam we're going to be related to SharePoint. Or as we saw today, up to 20% of the questions can be on Microsoft Teams. You can get a zero on the Teams section or on the SharePoint section and still pass. So there's a little bit of that you kind of have to, you do have to know. All right, Rude has a question. I don't have a lot of hands-on with Teams. Is Teams also available in a demo tenant? Yes, Teams is. I don't know if you have to enable it in the admin center, but yeah, it's available in the demo tenant. It's just like SharePoint. It's definitely available. Like the Microsoft Partner Tenant? Yes. Yes, it definitely is. In fact, that's all you need to be able to study for this. You will need a, what do you need, if you needed to go through and get ramped up on the Teams section, you will need a Microsoft 365 tenant. You will need an internet connection, a text editor, like I would recommend VS Code. A couple of things installed on your machine. It's very minor. Like, let's see, Node, Yoman, Gulp. Don't worry about writing this down. This is all written down somewhere else. But this is all written down like when you need to, if you want to get up to speed on Teams development. Let's see. Node.js, Yoman, Gulp, and the Microsoft Teams Yoman Generator. You need to have all that stuff installed. Furthermore, you will also need an Azure subscription because that's how you create bots. Now, there is a way to create a bot without an Azure subscription that they don't really, none of the labs in the self-paced stuff really focuses on that. The docs don't really focus on it too much. You need an Azure subscription. In my opinion, you need an Azure subscription. And it's just when you go to create bots and messaging extensions. Now, with that being said, don't worry about spending any money on it. Not only do you get $200 credit free in the first month of Azure, you won't even use that. Because to create an Azure subscription, you have to provide a valid credit card. And then once you do that, you can create resources. But when you go to create a bot, there is a free tier. I think it's the F0 tier that gives you, I think, 10,000 messages for free. The next tier up just gives you a certain SLA with those messages. And you don't need the paid one at all. You can do everything to study for this exam. And to prepare for it in practice, you can do everything with zero dollars, except for what you spend on your internet connection and your developer workstation, like how much you spend on your laptop. That's it. Which if you think about it, that's pretty awesome. I mean, go back five, 10 years ago, and we spent a lot more. Like, you want to be able to share point development? Oh, sorry, you're going to have to go get an MSDN subscription. It's like, it's a great, it's a great story. Rune's got a question, will there be a part on your teams like SharePoint framework now that's available? There is, so I don't think you're going to get a question about your teams, but none of the materials that are available to you for the self-paced study, none of those materials are going to use Visual Studio. Everything uses YoTeams. I can say that was certainty because I wrote all the material, but so I was involved in writing the self-paced study content and recording the self-paced study content for the certification, which is why when I build my own course, I'm not going to rerecord all that stuff and try and sell it to you because it's already out there for free. I mean, it doesn't make sense to do that. I see a lot of stuff going on in the chat. I got a bunch of questions. I'm going through the questions, so I'm not watching the chat guys, just FYI. If you've got a question, make sure you post it in the chat. I see some people actually helping each other, so that's cool. Sharing is caring. Let's see. So anonymous, didn't know we had a hacker group in here, said, for someone with not much experience, what would be the best way to start things moved very quickly in the Office 365 world. So by the time we learned something and comfortable, it's already outdated. Yeah, but the certification is not going to change that frequently. So I wouldn't be worried about keeping up. I wouldn't be worried about that. Like for example, I think the team's manifest SDK just changed to version 1.6. You won't get any questions about that and the stuff that's on there. You won't get any questions about like you can now do personal apps using the SharePoint framework and Microsoft Teams. No questions on that. That just came out a couple weeks, months, two, three ago. You won't get any questions on that. So what's the best way to start? I would go through all the self-paced content. If you go through all the self-paced study content that Microsoft provides, and you are comfortable with all of that content, you will be comfortable passing the exam. Because that's all I did. I didn't study it all for the content, for the exam. I focused on going through all the self-paced content, which I mean, I wrote it, so I was familiar with all of it. And then I went and took the exam and I was fine. Joseph, how does the development cycle, tasks that we do, differ developing and testing for teams? Differ from what, Joseph? I create my own site collection and SharePoint. What's the equivalent in teams development? Oh, okay. So you are probably going to create a team where you can do all your testing. You can create channels in that. So think of that as like creating a site collection and then creating different lists. A list is like, these are very loose analogies. So someone's like, no, that's not true. I know. So a team is like a site collection, creating different lists. Those are in SharePoint. That's like creating different channels because you can delete them and get rid of the messages. But other than that, it's very similar.  In SharePoint, we use app catalogs. In teams, we use the app store. You then have to go install the SharePoint site collection, the SharePoint app in your SharePoint site. You do that by going installing an app. You do the exact same thing in teams. You install an app and it's going to give you a list of all the apps that are available to you, including the ones that you've deployed to the store. You have a store that's local just for your tenant. And you have a store that's available just for your tenant and you have the global store, SharePoint framework. You've got the global store and you've got one that is just for your tenant or even your site collection. You can scope it even down that farther. One thing that is different from SharePoint to team's development is that everything you do in teams, you have to host it. So in development, you host it on your laptop, but in production, you got to deploy it somewhere that teams can get to it. In SharePoint, we can put our JavaScript and manifest files in the package and they can get deployed to a CVN for us. That does not exist inside teams. A team's app is kind of like... When I was building the content working on the server, I was joking around with the guy that owned the dev story. And his point was, there's really no such thing as a team's app, because a team's app is just a manifest file that just is a bunch of pointers saying there's a bot over there and there's a bot over here and there's a messaging extension. And that tab that's really just a web page that is going to be running from a site that you host and we're just going to have an iframe that loads it. That task module, that's either an adaptive card that you gave us from your external application or it's a web page that you're hosting in your application that we're loading in an iframe. So that's some of the differences. Warren, will I be creating my own sample app to go with your boot cap material? An integrated application across SharePoint and Teams? No. I will not be doing that. And the reason why is this is not necessary. These reference implementations get so big and so contrived. If you notice, you don't see Microsoft doing this stuff all that much anymore. Years ago, if you've been doing this as long as I have, you may be familiar with like, remember the Finch and Matter books or the financial company or adventure works bicycles, you'd have these big applications that they would build and the second that you would deploy them, they take a lot of time to build.  And after you end up doing that, somebody's going to another customer will come to you and say, yeah, that's not really my scenario. What if I wanted to do this? And so it never really works. So instead, it's just, you know, how can I integrate these different pieces together? And how can I build up on the ideas to build like maybe a couple components together? Like I'll build a bot and that bot will return back a task module to show that. And the task module I click on, it'll take me to to a tab, a custom tab, but there's no, like, you know, big scenario, you get some of that now these days with like a hero, they call them a hero demo for a conference. They show in like keynotes, but I'm not going to build one because the maintenance of them too is just it makes them cost prohibitive. They get out of date and someone's like complaining, oh, you're using a version that's like six months old, you need to update it. And it takes a lot of time. And so no, I don't, I don't find that to be in my experience of doing like developer education for the last 13 years. They don't, there's no, the payoff isn't there. I get it. I get the request and I get, yeah, but I really do get value from that. I totally respect that I get it. I do too. I love grabbing those big samples and then being able to poke through it. But what we see the vast majority of people, it's not worth, it's not worth the investment. Um, Michael P, do you know, do you know if there are any plans for more in depth exams specific to workloads like teams? I can tell you right now that there is nothing currently. I need to be careful what I say here. The last time I was involved in working on the exam, there was one exam planned and that is the MS 600 and there was one certification plan and that was the certification we're talking about here, the Microsoft 365 developer associate certification. If you can read between the lines on that response, it, it's not so much an NDA thing. It's that I remember the discussions we had about this. So okay, I've got two questions left. I can answer those. Those are, those are quick ones. So let me give you a little bit more background to this. And I was going to go into this, I'm going to go into this a lot more in that in my behind the scenes webinar a week from today. When they were designing the certification, the idea was associate across the board associate level knowledge on all five workloads. The problem is is that when they create an exam, they also have to create an instructor led course that will that that you that a company could send an employee to they go through the course as a green developer, and they come out the other end and can take the exam and pass it if they did if they applied themselves during the course. My argument was, if you're going to do that, then you your course is going to be about three weeks long. When they originally expected that and here the reason why I wasn't involved in the instructor led course to be completely blunt is because the course had to be four or five days long, which meant that you had to do you had to learn everything SharePoint framework in about a day, maybe a day and a half. No chance, no chance at all that's going to happen. My my SharePoint framework development course is over 30 hours long. There's no way you can do that in one day. I was like, at best, maybe three or four days. But that's just one of the five workloads. So I would that that's why I didn't I wasn't involved in the instructor led course. That was the main reason. So what we ended up having to do was it wasn't associate across the board, you actually are going to be tested associate level at the graph and the identity level. And then there's going to be and then it's more found it's a mix of like foundational plus or like associate minus kind of knowledge that you're going to be tested at for the specific products teams, SharePoint and office add ins. And in the future, they they were thinking about, well, then we can have an associate level training or associate level course for SharePoint. So there'll be a Microsoft 365 certified associate developer. And then you could also go get a SharePoint like emphasis or a teams emphasis stuff like that. Okay. But the core was all of those three still require identity and graph. So that's the that's the one that's probably the deepest at those two of the deepest that you need to know. So hopefully that answer your question, I hope they do another one, I think that they should. But frankly, when we were doing this stuff last year, it was it was a it was a strictly a budget thing. It was strictly a budget thing and a time thing. This certification had to launch by Ignite of last year. I will give you more behind the scenes stuff in my behind the scenes webinar. Let me get to these last two questions that we've got here. Andrew, do sites have to be groupified before they are teamified? I put this way, I'm going to answer this. I'm not 100% confident my answer. I'll explain. I'll explain my reasoning how I'm going to answer in a second. But just because of that, you I can tell you that you don't have to worry about that for the exam. Okay.  So if you have a SharePoint site that is not an Office 365 group, then I assume you're going to have to groupify it first before you can teamify it.  Joseph, can the host for a teams app actually be SharePoint or I have to have Azure or some other equivalent. So it can be SharePoint, because if you're familiar on the shit, well, so actually your your name is familiar. You're actually I think you're actually one of our one of my customers for the SharePoint framework course. If I'm not mistaken, the well, I know I'm not mistaken. I've done that. In the SharePoint framework, they have ways of going through an extending customizations that can be used in teams. So like for example, you can create a tab for Microsoft Teams. If you do it, the 100% teams native way of doing it, you're creating a webpage that you're going to host somewhere like an Azure app or some other equivalent. If you're doing it in if you're doing it in SharePoint, you can create a web part and deploy that as a Teams app or Teams tab. And what happens is is there's a central page in SharePoint that when it gets especially crafted URL with all these URL parameters on it, it you will also get you will also get what is it you get the the tab that the web part is added to the page but there's no SharePoint Chrome on the page. So it's actually being loaded from SharePoint. You can do that with personal tabs and you can do that with personal apps as well. All right, cool. So we are at we're at the I always forget this top or bottom of the hour or at the end of the hour. So let me let's see, let's go back and let me show that slide again. So you can grab that link if you need it. Let me just quickly just scan the chat really quick if there's anything quick. Any questions, no option web folks. Oh, got a question about from Mark about a recommendation for a dev laptop setup should include what do you think you need? I have a three year old MacBook Pro that I use for everything. I personally I'm not I don't like Windows. And this machine is awesome. It's what I'm running off of right now. And it's fantastic streaming video streaming webinar. The fans are running on it. But it's running. It's good. That's my favorite machine. But my two cents. Um, yeah, Michael, I always screw that up. I know bottom is always like bottom is at the six so it's at the half past and yeah. Cool. All right. I'm going to go ahead and wrap it up. I hope everyone had learned something today. I hope to see you next Tuesday for office add ins. I saw one or two other questions about how do you take the exam any tips and stuff like that come to behind the scenes. It's a great place to ask that question and I will see everybody then. Hey, thanks a lot for joining me today. I really appreciate it. The recording will be up hopefully later today. Take care, everybody.


Aloha, I'm Kirsten Baumgart Turner and this is Sustainable Hawai'i, airing every Tuesday at noon on thinktecawaii.com. For decades, scientists worldwide have known that coral reefs, which are the breadbasket for over 500 million people, are being destroyed by development, overfishing, pollution and increased ocean temperatures. In 1998 alone, a bleaching event caused by very warm water killed more than 15 percent of corals worldwide. For much of the 20th century, Kanyohi Bay was used as a sewage dump. By the 1970s, a majority of the Bay's reefs that once provided food for thousands of people had died. Sewage dumping was eventually curtailed, leading to a temporary recovery, but then invasive algae took over and again suffocated the reef. In 2005, the State Department of Land and Natural Resources partnered with the Nature Conservancy and the University of Hawai'i to remove most of the algae from the Bay. The water cleared up and patches of reef began to grow again, but in 2015, unusually high water temperatures caused widespread coral bleaching, actually in 2014, all around O'ahu, and again in 2015, water temperatures in the Bay spiked by almost 4 degrees Fahrenheit. These events set the stage for the phenomenal coral reef research being done by my guest today. I'm delighted to have back on the show again the world-renowned coral biologist, Dr. Ruth Gates. Dr. Gates began her studies in her native England at Newcastle University, just inland of the North Sea. For years, she studied corals also in the Caribbean Sea. Today, she leads research as the director of the University of Hawai'i's Institute of Marine Biology on Coconut Island in Kanyohi Bay, where she's globally recognized for her cutting-edge work on corals. She was awarded the University of Hawai'i Board of Regents Medal for excellence in research in 2014, was honored as the 2015 ARCS Foundation Scientist of the Year, and this year was identified as Islander of the Year for Science by Honolulu Magazine. Her work is the subject of several recent documentary shows on National Geographic, the Discovery Channel, and the American Museum of Natural History. That's where I first discovered her. Dr. Gates is the elected president of the International Society for Reef Studies, which held its International Coral Reef Symposium in the United States for the very first time right here in Hawai'i in June, and she's about to participate in the World Conservation Congress starting this week. Aloha. Welcome, Dr. Gates. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm delighted to be back. Well, I'm delighted you're always willing to partake in these opportunities to share your work with the world. Absolutely. You're certainly plastered everywhere now, and we're all appreciative of it because there's always something new we're learning. The one thing I'd like to say is that, you know, I follow my passion. I do what I love to do, and I've been lucky enough to have the opportunity to pursue a career like the one that I have here at the University of Hawai'i. Well tell us so that the viewers who haven't seen you know exactly what your work is on Coconut Island. So I'm a coral biologist. I've been one for 25 years, and I've studied one feature of the biology that has become particularly important as climate change has intensified. And that is, why does one coral do better than another when they are stressed out? You know, and really you can analogize that back to humans. When two people are faced with the same problem, often they respond very differently. And so my group and many others around the world has been focusing on the biology that underpins those differences in the ability of individuals to perform or even individual reefs to sustain damage. And we think we've identified three characteristics. It's to do with their genetics, just like with humans. It's to do with their past experience. Have they survived a stress event in the past? And it seems that if they have, it makes them better able to withstand an event in the future. This is what I love about your work. Instead of focusing as many of us have in the years trying to get people to pay attention to climate change, instead of focusing on the 70% of the corals that are stressed out or dying, you're focusing on the smaller percentage that are surviving and why. Absolutely. And I think that this is a, you know, I've monitored the changes on reefs over the course of my career. I've seen reefs that I have dove on and loved be annihilated by the actions of man. You can spend a lot of time documenting it and getting depressed about it, but my opinion is if we do the science for a reason, that's to better understand the system, it's really an imperative for us to actually take that knowledge and move that forward and think about how that knowledge tells us about a feature that will be important to address as we move forward in ever more increasingly stressful conditions. And so let me just back up a little bit with that. Climate change is intensifying. The planet's getting warmer and the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing as we burn more fossil fuels. What that translates to in the ocean is warmer than normal seawater temperatures and a change in the chemistry of the water. That's something I learned recently. I didn't realize that the actual fossil fuels leaking in the water as well as the CO2 they're emitting is changing the chemistry. Exactly, it's dissolving into the CO2 dissolves into the water and it makes the water more acidic and that acidity coupled with temperature is now starting to interfere with very basic biological reactions that are critical to the maintenance of reefs. That is their ability to actually build the structure that creates the reef that protects the land directly behind them and of course creates the home for all the things that live on reefs. And we've talked about on this show several times the importance of that reef as a barrier for the large wave events, the monster waves that are eating away at our infrastructure that's so important to our economy as well. You know, this function of reefs as natural seawalls is something that actually doesn't often get much play. And we are living in a time where we're trying to react to what seem to be really urgent problems associated with sea level rise and my perspective is if we take care of our natural seawalls it's a much more cost effective solution to rising sea level. If we can make our reefs survive into the future and continue to create these big structures that protect our land then surely that is a much more appropriate action than pouring in an enormous amount of concrete. Absolutely and one of the other things that I've taken in from all the different talks that you've given is that you really are all about systems thinking and a systems approach whereas most academics who are that deep into research as you are are very stove piped and are really focusing because it takes all their energy to do that. Somehow you've been coming out of that stove pipe and connecting the different kinds of research and the different ways in which policy can be developed using that research. You know as an academic as a trained academic you are sort of forced down these stove pipes being an expert at something is really the way you get promoted through your career. I think you know I'm lucky enough to have gone through my career I've done that I've published a lot of papers in the peer reviewed literature but I could see that I'm more comfortable in the broader conversation of I've got this knowledge how do I combine my knowledge with the knowledge of others that may be quite different but very complementary and then when you put all of that together you end up with a pie that addresses a problem that we need to address as a society and so I think that I have been lucky enough to sort of take the science forward into a more solution oriented our projects right now are focused on harnessing our basic understanding of biology to develop corals that are provisioned for the future that we know can survive the future we call this an area called assisted evolution. It's very controversial. Yeah I was going to say when it applies to humans people cringe but what do they have the same reaction well you know it's so funny because I think that you know often I'll discuss and say well do you have a dog and people say I have a dog I say well what type of dog do you have golden retriever I said that's great that did you know that that golden retriever was selected to look like a golden retriever we breed things to create the look that we want for those dogs and the behaviors that's right and in the context of corals then one of the things that we're doing is saying well if we know that two individuals that are different individuals in the same species are doing really well it's better to breed those two individuals than it is for them to randomly breed with somebody who's doing really poorly because through the process known as natural selection that individual of the mixed positive and negative will probably not survive the future as well as a positive positive so it's not a radical thing that we're doing at all we've done it with everything that we eat on our food in our food supply we do it with trees we go to the garden center everything is selectively bred for the feature that we as humans deem important and what I'm saying is why shouldn't we be doing this to help coral reefs so when you worked with or presided over I think you were one of the key people to get the international coral reef symposium here correct yes and so when you were involved in that I know one of the principal goals of that symposium was to get out of the academic silos and start getting the attention of policy makers to look at the science and get the academics to talk to the policy makers that's right was that successful and and what were the outcomes of that symposium I think it was very successful and actually I think this is a conversation that our international coral reef symposium was explicitly sort of contextualized by bridging science to policy and there was a leaders summit that brought some of our Pacific Island leaders to the table to discuss the needs of their islands and then convened with scientists and science that could potentially meet those needs this conversation has been going on in a number of different arenas on the west coast with the fisheries very successful management are very positive management of the fisheries I think it's what what's happening is the problems with nature or the problems that are occurring because we've driven the planet down a pipe that is really scary with climate change and we're now we have this tension of developing the land and all that that means for the natural systems that are directly adjacent to them the coral reefs are immediately adjacent to where we live I think to where we live but the problem is that so many people in the world don't live near coral reefs so they don't have the appreciation for how important the reefs are for a global ecosystem well how do we engage the people who don't have this immediate access and visibility to the reef so that they're aware that this provides basically the food source the economic resource you know tourism other things well that's crucial for all of us I mean maybe the most direct interaction between most people and a coral reef is is really the drugs that are being developed from the organisms that live there and this is a smaller part of the picture that people don't often we don't we don't usually say well coral reefs do this for humans they do medicines coastal protection food tourist economies we don't usually put the medicine at the top of the list and yet probably if you look at the number of people affected by that particular service that the reef provides to humans it's many wow a very broad reaching and so we don't really think about it that way we often talk about the the importance in terms of biodiversity and the maintenance of biodiversity and I've often said to people well biodiversity doesn't actually tell people what we mean really what we mean is the variety of organisms that live on the planet and the eco services that they provide for all that's right are you can you think give us some examples of some of the medicines that might come from the reef so there's some medicines that are being developed that are for anti cancer drugs there's many many many scientists who were involved in taking small pieces of all organisms off the reef and doing these ever more intense fractionations of the the homogene we basically smush them up in a big tube and you look and see whether that's a bioactive thing can in a test we're essentially growing cells from different cancers you put this solution in and if it inhibits those cells growing then you know it's an anti cancer to that particular cancer so how can we get folks to pay attention to that value in our public policymaking so that we translate the the incredible resource that is the evolving information about the reef because you're discovering new things every day yes well you know this is the sort of the field of biomimicry that we've we understand the biology of these organisms really well we see whether they serve as a variety of ways if the answer is yes say with a drug often what happens then as a pharmaceutical company will come in and will mimic the chemistry of that particular compound because you can't obviously go out and take a lot of things off the reef continually but at that point it sort of disconnects from the reef and you no longer know that that compound actually originated from a finding that was from a reef organism so that tracing of how did we get to this endpoint it's a little bit like the labeling and food you know people are always saying we want to label the food we want to know where it came from whether it's genetically modified it's the same kind of thing with drugs we should know where those ideas and where that biology was first discovered is that going to take a policy change so that we require those now that would certainly take a policy change and do you think that's feasible I think it's very feasible you know another issue that has come to light very recently is the influence of some suntan lotions on corals and the coral health and that there are chemicals in those suntan lotions that are really poisoning corals and because we have areas that are so heavily heavily used by tourists yeah one of the things that we try and demonstrate out at chemical a year for our visitors is take your sunscreen hand if you put it on the reef the next day you will see the imprint of your hand where that reef is now that coral is now bleached right people are astounded they have no idea that's right and I think very if we can educate them they won't be doing that but how do we translate that into policy well you know there's maybe I think we need to take a break and then we'll come back to that and say how are we going to get this to make a big difference in the policy realm we'll be right back hey how you doing welcome to a bachi talk my name is Andrew Lening I'm your co-host and we have a nice program here every Friday at one o'clock I think tech studios where we talk about technology and we have a little bit of fun with it so join us if you can thanks aloha aloha everyone I'm Maria Mera and I'm here to invite you to my bilingual so Viva Hawaii every other Monday at 3 p.m. we are here to show you news issues and events local and around the world join me hi I'm Ethan Allen host of likeable science on think tech Hawaii I hope you'll join me each Friday afternoon as we explore the amazing world of science we bring on interesting guests scientists from all walks of life from all walks of science to talk about the work they do why they do it and more why it's interesting to you what the science really means to your life its impacts on you how it's shaping the world around you and why you should care about it I do hope to join me every Friday at 2 p.m. for likeable science hi we're back with world-renowned coral reef biologist doctor Ruth Gates and we're just talking about the importance of translating the research into policy and I know that you've been working with the local legislature on some issues that we might be able to make changes yes I and many others have been sort of highlighting things in the water that are actually causing problems with corals health and one that has come to light very very recently is the is suntan lotions and the chemistry are the chemicals that are in suntan lotions which I should mention if they're not good for corals they're definitely not good for us that's right because we actually have evolved from a common ancestor of corals so they are quite biologically similar to us so but what's happening is is that science is basically being massed to show that the the reef itself is not doing well in important ways and that knowledge is now being moved into policy makers hands to develop new bills to move through our local legislature and I think eventually through federal policy makers to actually develop guidelines for how suntan lotions can be used and which ones can be used and there's a particular set of chemicals that are really bad and I think there's a real move to ban those chemicals what are some of those they're oxybenzones there is a particular site a cyclical group of chemicals that just appear to stop corals from reproducing and we know that endangered species are like the canary in the coal mine that's right and when they start to suffer we know that we're going to be suffering that's right I mean you know humans we rely on other organisms we're part of the general biodiversity we're not special things that are going wrong for other organisms will eventually go wrong for us right we know that our health is being influenced there's a lot of discussion of GMO there's a lot of discussion about how environmental pollution affects our function certainly the increases in cancer and both the diverse number of cancer as well as the huge number of people that are coming down with it it's it's kind of scary our world is a much more environmentally complex place and a lot of that complexity is man-made it's stuff that we've developed that is now coming out into our atmosphere or being eaten by us and you know one area that I think you know is is so present for many people is plastics you know we get talked about talking about you know removing plastic bags but you know plastics go into the ocean either in large or small pieces even if we collect them and recycle them we're recycling them into another plastic-based product and as you recycle it becomes ever smaller and smaller and smaller and now we know that microplastics are starting to appear in the internal organs of marine life and it's only a matter of time before plastics inside our own bloodstream become an issue yeah this is something actually that that's very prevalent in Hawaii is when you even when you're fishing and you catch the fish and got it you see a lot of microplastics one of the things that I think is really important that came out of the coral reef summit is the legislation you were talking about for Hawaii but is there also this move for legislation in other coral reef-centered countries and are they going to be coordinating with us are we going to be doing sort of an international or global effort to educate one another about what the policy solutions might be I mean I think that the the fabulous thing about reefs is they are global they are distributed around the middle or the belt of the planet and what's so great about convening international conferences like the international coral reef symposium or the World Conservation Congress is that essentially you're bringing players together to talk about success stories or failures in attempting to preserve natural systems across the globe and so what that enables that level of conversation is is a much more coordinated effort to take really lessons learned that a positive translate them rapidly to other places to make more of a difference across more of the planet and that's an exciting thing in which I think science and scientists are in that conversation very actively at the moment saying our science tells us that this is the right direction to legislate to generate policy around of course every conference is only as good as what happens in between the conferences and particularly the World Conservation Congress and the coral reef symposium are every four years and we need to be abreast of and make sure that we push and pursue the activity in between the Congress is so that there's that carry-on effect what is happening to make sure that well I mean I would say from my own perspective from the corollary fields within this sort of smaller subset then of the environmental settings that we would want to protect we have an international society that is really now tasked with making sure our community advances agendas collaboratively so we're really pushing a much more collaborative framework for our society trying to engage specifically with our younger population of scientists who are very committed to doing something about the problems that are on course there's socially networked like never before so there's many more avenues to keep that going than we ever had as young students and you know as well as the social networking there's much more technology that is being thrown at these problems than has ever been used before you know we have NASA coming in and funding really large-scale acquisition of imagery on reefs for the first time so using satellite satellite and then retrofitting aeroplanes with special cameras to be able to fly over large areas of reef there's a big project called coral that's been it's a 15 million dollar project being pushed out from NASA focused on coral reefs but and I understand the coral reefs but maybe it's just the great barrier reef can actually be seen from space oh absolutely and many of the reefs in the world can be seen from space I mean which is an astonishing thing when you think that they're created by microscopic animals that have even tinier little plants living inside of them I mean that's an astonishing natural feat of biology that I think many people think that a coral is a rock and walk all over it thinking it's a rock because it looks like that but actually it's a dynamic living organism that is actually building that rock from and it's an organism that's a whole world unto itself because one of the things you share in one of the many documentaries I've seen about you is is that every time you peel a layer you see layers more of living organisms that are depending on a symbiotic relationship all the way through they're masters of symbiosis and that is the just the tight interaction by two very different organisms and you know symbiosis as a feature for humans is critically important we'll all have talked to each other over the over the dinner table about what do we mean microbiome what does that mean that the bacteria in our guts can potentially be beneficial to us that is a symbiosis and that symbiosis can be knocked off by a bad diet into something that makes us physically unhealthy same thing can happen in carls when they change their symbionts they can be basically transitioned into an unhealthy state again exemplifying the tight linkage between the biology of humans and the biology of these rock-like creatures on the reef so you've been working on these different new growth patches in Kaneohe Bay I'm wondering if you're going to get to take some of the World Conservation Congress folks out to show them the work you've been doing so we do we are entertaining quite a number of visitors high-level visitors policymakers who are coming in to have a look at just the amazing resource that you know the Hawaiians to bring biology is an a marine institute sitting on a living car reef one of the patch reefs there's about 50 of those in Kaneohe Bay being able to see the car from where I work is an astonishing thing and having the kind of infrastructure that we have on the island to do cutting-edge science acquire new knowledge that is really purposeful about why certain reefs are doing better than others and what that means for all the other biodiversity that uses all the fish and of course the marine mammals that use our coastal waters so astonishing place so we're hoping to we are definitely touring we have two press tours going on next week that will be involved in one on coconut island with national geographic another one with the state talking about the state's plan for managing coral bleaching as we move into unfortunately what looks like it's going to be a third consecutive bleaching event in 2016 we are already seeing signs on the reef in Kaneohe Bay that corals are changing from their characteristic dark brown color to much lighter white yeah we're seeing that out on Mokule'i on the reef as well it's really awful so you're going to be bringing international scientists but the press as well out to see this one of the things that's so astounding about your work in Kaneohe Bay is that you have a very accessible site in a large area for a lot of people and we in Hawaii are smack in the middle of the Pacific that makes us very accessible actually despite our remoteness yes to all the Pacific countries that are key in this as the largest ocean and some of the biggest economies of the world so will you be having China and Japan and other countries it's very very interesting I already am hosting Chinese scientists in my group we have we are a site for Fulbright exchange where we're inviting scientists from all over the world to come my perspective is we need to be collaborating with as many people from as many places as we can as we actually advance a plan for how we're going to respond to the problems on reefs not just watch them but respond well this is so exciting and in the last 30 seconds I just would like to thank you so much for coming on again invite you to come back again after the Congress so we can talk about what your experience was with hosting these folks from around the world and hopefully learn more about the more funding international funding and state and federal funding that you're getting because I know you're getting much more support than ever before yes realizes thank you so much customer's been a pleasure to be delighted and wish you all the best conservation Congress thank you aloha and join us again next Tuesday on sustainable Hawaii