I told my older son this, I speak to him differently to the other two, because he's a bit older.  Like, I'm not a finance guy, I'm not loaded or anything like that, but you know enough to know that if you have plenty of money, you can just enjoy life a little bit more.  It's not going to help you in the long run. He thinks about it and stuff, and I just put little seeds, I guess, as opposed to just trying to drill into him, and you do that a few times over the years and they kind of get an idea of themselves. Welcome to The Savo Show. We have a guest on who is my oldest friend since I moved here to Australia from the Soviet Union. His name is Josh Hamilton. He is of the native kind, the Aboriginal kind, the OG kind. As you can tell. And yeah, I've grew up on, living on the streets in Padbury, he lived around the corner, and we'd always go to each other's houses, we both had pools, so that was cool. That's right. I had the Sony PlayStation, he had the extra... 64. He had the 64, and then he had the siblings and the trampoline. Oh, Tim and his injuries. And yeah, the van won't go down to Neil Hawkins to feed the birds. Oh, the Tarago, the creamy... Tarago, and then yeah, he had your older sister Chiara, he had a younger brother Tim, and then you had Sally and Blake, your twins who are all adults now as well. It's actually pretty crazy, yeah. Last time I saw them, they were, I think, still in diapers. It would be like that, yeah, actually, because they're eight years younger than us. As we went to Cal Gully, and then where your cousins were from, I remember, and then you guys went up to Geraldton for a bit. Yeah, Mum got a work transfer up there for the Department of Justice, so we just went along the way, and the rest is history. Did some years up there, and then we had a football carnival, I can't even remember what it was called. Yeah, the Goldfields Football Carnival or something like that. In Cal Gully, and I remember you coming up to me after a match, or I was just waiting, and you're just like, Josh, I'm like, what? Like, couldn't remember, and yeah, got to talking, and then it's just crazy how you can keep in touch with people. Now you're all tatted up, big boy, going on the, going on the bulk. Are you natty?  I'm not out to impress anyone.  Oh, yeah, like, don't get me wrong. I'm impressed, bro. It's cool. There's nothing to hide. Like, every man, his dog's been doing it since before I did it. Yeah. Not into drugs that much, so... That much? Well, you know, like, I didn't really drink much going on. Yeah, yeah. Or really. And that's my little thing that I like to do. Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. In line, I don't drink alcohol pretty much ever. So it's the one last thing I have to worry about. Yeah, that's it. I mean, the alcohol, it's there. It's always there. People are drinking less these days. You think so? Yeah. They're saying that the Gen Z, Gen Z is... Yeah, they're not consuming as much alcohol as we did growing up. Well, that's probably not a bad thing. No, it's a great thing. It doesn't help with a lot of decisions. It doesn't. Especially if you're hooking up. Oh, my, I haven't done that in a long time. So you've got three boys? I do, actually, yes. They're three sons. Aldous is turning 12 this year. Wow. Yeah. So it's kind of weird. Yeah. I'm only 32 this year, so I started young, but it's probably the best thing that's ever happened to me. Yeah. So you had your first kid when you were 20. What was that like? Well, I was looking back at it now. It just kind of happened and didn't really question it. We ended up getting married at the time. Well, we were married. And I just thought that's what you do.  And I guess because I didn't really drink much anyway, even back then, I think I went four years without drinking. So I didn't drink for a while. It wasn't like I felt like I missed out on too much. And because of that, it wasn't that bad, but it was a bit rocky along the way, and things changed. So now that you've got your life with the kids, but your new relationship, how's that kind of unfolded for you over the last couple of years? Because I know we've been chatting every now and then about your previous life. Oh.  Yeah, so my current partner is, we met by chance, a mutual friend of ours, someone I used to live with, actually. So that was quite cool. It wasn't like 310 or anything like that. I know, yeah. It's fine? It's fine. It's still fine.  And I just happened to go with that. It was just quite mutual and honest, really. Yeah. But she's awesome. She's very, very family orientated, which I'm very surprised about. She's a bit younger than me, so I didn't think that would be such a thing. Yeah. She's got a few, like an niece and nephew herself, so she's all about that kind of family life. And I was a bit hesitant. I didn't think I'd really, because I've been married and divorced, I didn't think I'd really be that interested in a relationship again, and let alone contemplating anything else that follows that. Yeah. So how long after you decided that and you met this lovely woman? So... Oh, you started dating her anyway? So I left my ex-wife in 2019. Yeah. I think the start of August, so that kind of time of the year. And then I've been dating, or I've been with my partner for two years this month. And I just went through a phase where I went overseas, like quite early on after leaving, and just cleared my head a bit. It wasn't like a party thing, time to myself. And then just kind of floated around doing some shut-down work. Not really interested in girls a whole lot, like you'd be on Tinder and stuff like that, like didn't feel meaningful. You know, like I've been married with my kids for like eight years. Stuff like that isn't that appealing. Yeah. Not really. And yeah, I just kind of floated around for a long time, and then just happened to meet my partner, just by chance from seeing a photo that my friend posted. Yeah. And I just had to ask. You single? Oh, I'm 100% taken. Oh, sure. I know. I made her wait, actually. She will not.  So what's your risk? How did you risk her? I had made her wait. Oh. So I don't know. It was like seven o'clock, her birthday, two years ago in January. My friend, I was living with her. She posted up a photo. I was out at work on site, and I just messaged my friend Emily, and I was like, who's that? And she's like, I knew you would say something.   I didn't say a thing to her the next day. Just, oh yeah, good night. Didn't follow her back. Didn't like nothing. That's it. Next day, start talking, rest his history. So she will deny that forever. She'll try to make up something.   Well, you just learn over time that you don't need people. Yeah, I guess. But it's a bit of a game, courting people, even if you don't know where it'll go. It's still a game. It's competition, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So if you're just doing what everyone else is doing, you've got to stand out a little bit. You've got to stand out.  And I'm like, yeah, cool, whatever. And then back in the club days, the peak club days of the early 2010s, the girls would come up and go, you're so tall. And I was like, yeah, and what? Years later, I was like, that was easy icebreaker for me and I never utilized it. You'd have the best view in the club though, wouldn't you? Nowadays, I look for like, who's, oh, you think I'm tall? Awesome. What's the, you ever hooked up with someone as tall as me? And then they would, I've done this once, it worked. And then they'd be like, no, I haven't. You're like, do you want to make a personal best tonight?  That's cool, yeah. And I was out on Saturday night, working with a client, and the guys had come up early, early 20s, something.  And we'd have a chat. I'm like, so what's happening tonight? Like, are you here to talk to girls? What are you up to? Most of them, most of them, majority of them say, nah, we're just here with the boys. Oh, I don't know. I don't feel like I'm that... Or lacking confidence. Yeah, they don't have confidence.  That's chill, that's cool. But when I ask the girls, they're like, oh, normally guys come up to me. I'm like, well, what would you do in return? And there's no game. Understanding of the game is dead. But see, like, we're talking like early 20s. I would say that. I was king of friends owning myself, right? Like, I don't mind, like, whatever. You learn heaps of things along the way, and you understand it. I'm happy where I am now, who I am. Yeah, like... You evolve. It's probably a good thing, really. I'd probably just get myself in a bit of trouble. Yeah, yeah. But I remember some of the pickup lines you've shown us. Yeah. The rain one? The rain one? Yeah. Yeah, the weather one. Yes. The weather one was good. We can't not say it. Okay, so... You know it off my heart? The weather one. Yep, so Tinder, you'd match with someone, and you'd start to go... Oh, this is a trade secret. You'd go back and forth a little bit, but then I'd play a game with, if I can do it instantly, just to really get Tinder out of it. But yeah, I ended up getting 10 phone numbers after sending them the first message. That's a pretty good... It's a good stat. And the message was, it feels like... Degrees outside. It feels like your phone number degrades outside right now. And if it was cold, you'd say, it feels like it's negative your phone number outside. And the best thing was, it put the ball in their court. Because normally they're used to... And this is what I mean about standing out. They're used to, you know, back and forth, the sleazy, something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, here's my phone number. Your call. Well, that's funny, because she gave me her phone number without even even asking. See, did it to you.  I thought she was playing jokes with me. Yeah. Because she said, oh, I've got poor reception here. Yeah, yeah, who has that? Yeah. And I was like, at her house, she's like, hang on, I think... I think she said, let me go drive down to my sister's in Rockingham. I've got better reception there. And she did.  She actually did it? Yeah. Oh, wow. And I was like, waiting and waiting, I think, and I'm like, what the fuck's going on? And she said, oh, hey, I've got reception now. She texted me.  We're like... The house that she lived in was terrible reception. Man, all these new houses with the Chen Ru. That was in, like, Koma, I believe. Yeah. Yeah, so, like, it's a really good area.  You can just walk down the street. She wanted to talk to me. Jesus. She wanted to go to, like, a cafe or something. Yeah, well, that, yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. I reckon that would be a good piece of content, though. Like, I would be the hitch at the club and help the boys. You could definitely do that. I reckon that would work. You see videos of that and sometimes you think, maybe that's a bit set up, but I don't think it would be that hard. No, I reckon it would be good. Maybe it keeps the guys, like, just... Just give them a bit of confidence and go, hey, man, go up to her and say this and see what happens. And, you know, best feeling. And it's happened before. Best feeling is when you get that assist. Like, whether it's a phone number or something further down the line, you know, they get to the championship and they win because of you. I'm getting a ring, baby. Yeah. She wants a ring. No, so that's a business proposition. It is a business proposition. All those, like, really fake guru guys that try and convince young kids and tell them how to hit on women. Don't teach people how to hit on women. Teach guys how to wingman. That's right. Wingman. Yeah, that's true. You just give your man a bit of hype and he'll be right. Yeah. But, like, I've got another theory with the girls.  Old girls. Right. Why? Experience. Oh, mate. And not experience, not experience, like, sexually. I'm not going to brag, no. That too. No, no, no. That too. But, like, they were also... the guy would be well established. They know what they want. Yeah. When it comes to, like, actual sexual polarity in the sexual marketplace, older men stand out. But women, like, get attracted by what they see. So if they're not seeing older men, like, and they just go in the club, they're just going to say young dudes and young dudes don't know what they're doing, but they think they're doing it because they're all cocky. But really, they don't. No. But all the guys know what they're doing. Well, that's what I mean. Like, you're not ready yet? Young blood? You need to... Because there's no, like, talk of competition, there's no talk of any of that shit, and any kind of competition is, like, pushed aside and shunned, especially, like, between other men. People think it's, like, bad and toxic, but no one knows that, and then they're wondering why they're not picking up chicks or they're behaving a certain way. Yeah, they don't know that. Because all their older mates are, but this guy might just be wearing flashy clothes and pulling girls because he knows he's got flashy clothes. Yeah. But it's not how you get the girls, it's how you keep her. Yeah. If you just want to hook up, I hate seeing the real shit-haircuts get girls, though. Mate, mate, oh. We've got the same barber, so, you know. Salim. There's a plug for Salim. Oh, mate. His podcast is probably sponsored by Salim. Don't book it all the way. Once every three weeks, I want to book a spot, so not too much content customers. Yeah, nah, he... But, like, yeah, I've seen this haircut on the weekend, and I put a TikTok about it, and this is kid. He would have been 18, 19 years old. Nice as kid, but he's got a ball cut at the front that's faded in, and then at the back is a mullet. Oh, that one. Oh, that's a classic skunk looking head-to-head. I'm not sure I would have rocked at one point, thought I was the best in the world. Yeah. And then I was talking to one of the managers at the bar, and I was like, what's the difference between now club life versus the club life 10 years ago? Because he used to work with her. And she goes, yeah, the guys that are less attractive are getting the better-looking women. Yeah, that's weird stuff. Interesting. But wouldn't you say less attractive? What do you mean? Because that's a very particular thing.  Traditionally attractive. Yeah, traditionally attractive. Yeah, just like strong jawline, big shoulders, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's one girl I interviewed, and I didn't record this because she didn't want to record it, but I was just giving her, like, a post-Riz interview, because I noticed one of the guys... That's just Riz. Riz is, like, trying to pick someone up, like, trying to flirt with them. Oh, yeah. So that's the new lingo, Riz? Oh, my miss is always... How do you flirt with a chick? I'm not cultured in the 20s. Yeah, so Riz is, how do you flirt with a chick? You pick up girls. How do you Riz? Yeah, okay. So this guy Riz'd, he failed, and I went up to her after. I was like, give us the breakdown. What did he do? Well, so you asked her critique of his pick up guy. Yeah! Get marketing research, bro. This is so good. This is so good. So she goes... He wasn't confident. He was talking about himself too much, and, yeah, just didn't seem interesting. But then she also mentioned the appearance. He was shorter than her, he was shorter than her, and skinnier than her. Wow, that should never happen. Rather that she's eating too much, or he's just got to sort himself out. Go do some weights. That should just never happen. And that doesn't make sense. No. How is he going to protect her? Like, she's going to be the man, and she's going to end up not being a man. Yeah, and that's like a cultural thing too. Oh, yeah, that's my very biased opinion.  Oh, mate, I'd love to have the conversation with you. Come at me, bro. Oh, no, just like... But I asked her. It makes no sense. I asked her, I said to her, what do you look for? What's your ideal candidate? Oh, yeah. And she gave me the triple T. Oh. Tall, thick, and tattooed. Oh, tattoos are... That's not... I mean, I've got them. I love tattoos.  I've been considering getting more, trust me. Yeah. I think it's probably not a good idea just yet. Oh, well, why not? You're wifed up again, so why not? Pretty much. No, I don't know. There's other things to worry about, really, and tattoos don't really add anything to value, except for peel and like... Oh, man. It looks cool. Yeah. I reckon it looks cool. This one done eventually. Yeah. Yeah. Just a whole bunch of dicks. Surely not. No. No. No, it's going to get the whole heritage sort of, like, where I'm from.  Yeah. That's cool. But it's not going to be, like, that wanky mountain sort of... You could just have, like, one of your photos of you in the mountain. Because you've... You've got to go to sleep. Well, it's just, like, it's your adventure, isn't it? Yeah, it is. Yeah. I don't know about having myself big stevo on the back. Oh, yeah. He's done that, eh? Yeah. But, yeah, thick, tattooed and tall, the triple T. And I went on a rampage and asked a couple of girls. I was like, what do you look for in a guy? And before you answer, are these three things very appealing to you? Thick, tall and tattooed? And they're like, yeah, absolutely. So that's the new norm. But see, like, you can't help being tall unless you want to, like, wear big shoes, isn't it? No, but, like, that's something you can't do.  You can't. You can try, but you're just, that's sad. Yeah. But, like, you just got to deal with it, right? And then, like, thick, you can get thicker.  Look at my neck. No, but, um... Do you do weights with your neck? No, I actually went to the car the other day and I found out, I think this is why my neck is like the way it is.  But so, like, I was like, oh, yeah, go get it checked out. I got, like, halfway down my spine and my shoulder blades just, like, a bit of a wonk. And I've got, like, a hunchback. Oh, yeah. So, like, my mother or my... I can't remember which one. My mother or my dad does. And all of my siblings have a hunchback. Oh, wow. And I, until I went to the car, this is only, like, two, three weeks ago, I just thought, like, oh, the only reason I don't have it is because I, like, train and my posture's better because the muscles are pulled back. Well, turns out I've still got it. So, I have a tendency to, like, look down and it's not because I'm not confident, but, like, I now know why. Actually, I, like, I want to look down a lot. Yeah.  Fucking, I apologise if you can hear that. Hopefully the mics don't pick it up, but some dickheads just started vacuuming, but, you know, whatever. Does that happen much? No, I've never heard that before. Yeah, right. That's fun. Can you hear that? Does that extra... Do you know what goes on, like, as far as other people in the building? It's hard to tell whether it's actually in my headphones or not. Yeah. No, that's right. Hopefully it doesn't pick up. Sorry, guys, if you can hear a vacuuming. Old mates fucking. If it comes out the door, it'll be funny. All right! Do you reckon they're outside? Ryan, do you reckon you can quickly tell them the... Yeah, I'll pick. Yeah, we're doing a bit of records. We'll continue to combo. Yeah. We're going to actually investigate. Is it just out there? Yeah. That's like, Elliot Holston's old strength camp when he's doing it out of his garage and have, like, a big van or bus just, like... There's like a little robot... Ryan's coming out. MVP. MVP. MVP vibes. All right, tell us the story, Ryan. What was she doing? She's just tidying up the communal spaces like a good tenant. Yeah, I've never done that before. And I used my hospitality voice and we achieved silence. Thank you. If only the air conditioning could be quieter. I need that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man. It's so warm. It's going to be finally getting cooler. But yeah, neck vibes. Do you feel good? Do you move well now or...? Yes or no? Have you bad days?  I've got photos when I was a kid. Sister was the same. But I neglected a lot of stretching and rehab and recovery when I was playing footy and I played most of my life. And I guess that old habit of not really taking care of yourself. Training itself is good performance-wise. Yep. And all those kind of things. But when it comes to... Yeah, so as you get older, things don't go away as quickly. They hurt more. They affect more. So now I've become far more reactive but proactive now in... Yeah, very important. Recovery. But I haven't squat much lately because my back's a bit... Yeah, I'm down to 60, man. What's that, sorry? 60 kilos. What do you mean? Squat. What do you mean down to 60? Like, I used to squat easy over 100 for reps. Really? Yeah. What's going on there? My back, man. My lower back's like, how are ya? You know? All these cars probably gonna hit me up soon. Sevo, come to me. There's no color. Well, I'm kind of looking for a good one because... Well, I haven't... I've had one girl, her name's Kim. Yeah. Great chick. And she did some stuff and obviously I don't see a car at the moment. Yeah. But I've never really fully believed it. My Mrs is a bit skeptical too. Yeah. Physio?  I'm skeptical of those too. Yeah. Just because of similar kind of things happened. So usually when I've been to a physio, they just kind of like oh, yeah. And maybe I just don't understand what they're actually supposed to be doing for you. Yeah. But they'll just have a yarn with you about what's going on with your body. Like, oh, yeah, they'll look at you. But oh, yeah. And then they'll just give me like five exercises to go and do and see you later. Maybe come back twice a week. Yeah. But I've seen... That's kind of what I've had most of the time I've been to a physio. So I'm just like, is that it? So throughout my footy career, I had one consistent physio that I found. It was all time. And he was the only one that was unorthodox. He was out of the ordinary.   He'd massage my calf and it'd be gone. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I had turf foot or whatever it's called. Like just, it just wouldn't flex or extend. What's that? Well, like really stiff. Just stiff. I've got that. Tefto. Tefto, yeah. Maybe. Yeah, turf toe. It's the worst, man, because you can't walk, because you can't flex it, because it just hurts. It feels like it's just frozen. Yeah, right.  That's weird. Your body's crazy. Yeah. But talk about the posterior chain. It starts from here. It goes all the way back behind into the bottom of your front hip. Well, are you pinning a gland there or are you pinning it? Something like that. Third eye thing. But like the, yeah, the headaches, the headaches actually, I haven't had a headache in years. I don't remember the last time I had a headache. I don't get sick. I don't get sick. I don't get headaches. I don't even know what a migraine feels like. Everyone's like, oh, I've got a migraine today. I was like, the fuck's a migraine? I know people who stock pan at all in their cupboards and pop my lens. I haven't had a pill. The moment they, oh, my God, I'm sick. Yeah. I haven't had a pill.  One night, I was given dexanthetamine and I was like, you know what? I'm going to give it a go and see what it does.  I was like, cool. I can see why people take this recreation there as well. But other than that, I haven't had a panadol. I haven't had anything else. I don't remember the last time I took cough medicine.  No. I don't have a medicine cupboard. We do. We have a small select thing, but I've got kids. Yeah. I don't do it anyway, but I'm saying, you know, Stingos and Band-Aids and Neurofin and so on. But like the only time I get headaches is just when I haven't drank a lot of water. Yeah. I sweat a lot, which is really uncomfortable. Shout for it. I think, yeah, I think actually the only time I have had something was when my dehydration glands are tingling. So at work, right? Speaking of. So we can work in, like a lot of other FIFO places, pretty crazy heat conditions. Yeah. Well, we don't really stop, but sometimes I say the client wants us to. We can.  The work we do is pretty hard. And yeah, in hot days, and I'm a sweaty kind of person anyway, like one good day of not drinking much water, I just, I need something to stop, but that's only lack of water. Yeah. I mean, being from Keguli, being from that climate. Yeah. Well, that's one of the fun. Like I should drink more water. And because I don't, you know, I'm prone to more dehydration, not just my head, but the rest of the muscles.  I get mad cramps. Yeah. Cramps come. Unbelievable. Yeah. My back's been poked for the last kind of week. So like even sitting here, I'm like fidgeting because I'm like trying to. Cramping? No, lower. My lumbar is.  You can kick back version two. Studio version two. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Version two. Big glamour. Yeah. Just kind of a cute little cushion for you. Yeah. Just put your feet up. I've got one in the car, actually. A heat pack. Yeah. But yeah.  And that's helped me prolong my career. But then 2017, I just kept getting like traumatic injuries. Nothing to do with soft tissue.  Oh yeah, right. Like foams getting tackled. Yeah. Or someone fell on my ankle. Something like not like. Yeah. Someone fell on my ankle because their studs didn't grip to the floor. And I tried to jump over them like a hurdle. Yeah. Because they had the ball.  That's what you get. And then, yeah, I thought I just sprayed my ankle, but it was a complete. Fuck. Is that how it happened? Yeah. I had a whole reconstruction. Yeah, right. Jesus. Can you see the scar? Fuck. I got a nice one there. Can you see the scar? Yeah. It's pretty good. Can you see that? Is that good? Yeah. That was it. That was my last footy game for the waffle. And then I got roped into playing amateur footy in 2018 for Wannaroo. Yeah. I hated it. I hated every single second of it because I was just too stressed about injury and. That's why I stopped playing. Yeah. I stopped at 27. I think 28. It's been four years since I kicked the footy. And some of my mates are still playing. They won the grand final last year for West Perth. That's impressive that they can do that. I remember they would ask me, say, have you come out tonight after a game? After the game. After the game? After the game? Your age still? No, no, no. This was back then. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, did you get hit by the same size dude as you a hundred times today? But the Ruckman positions like so underrated. Tough on the body. It's like an MMA fucking.  To the toe.  That's permanent. I'm not showing you my feet. My feet are a bit messed up. No, I can't put it on there because I already showed my foot. You have the sense of it. Someone's going to screenshot it and sell it on somewhere. Ryan's probably going to do it. He's already done it. It's already online. Yeah. Seb's big scarred foot. Seb's fans. Seb's fans. Yeah. Seb's feet fans. Foot fetish. Yeah.  You see those things. The people that are selling their feet pics. No, I haven't. I just don't believe it. Like I've seen ads for it. I'm like surely not. There's definitely there's definitely fetishes out there and stuff like that. I've got a unique library of feet pics. Why? Because I'm a wedding photographer. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, you would. So the classic shot of the girl of the bride putting her her shoes on. So edit out all her bunions. No. No, that's their problem. No, but like they're like premium quality photos. And I'm like fuck, I've got hundreds of these. Maybe I should wait a couple years and then just like not put a face to the to the foot. Yeah. To the toe. To the toe. And then just sell them going this is the bride. And just like You could do something with that like a collage or collage? Yeah. A whole gallery. A whole exhibition. A whole exhibition. Man. So you do you still do photography wedding stuff? Yeah. So I've got one more year. This is my last year of doing it. Well, you're just going to count it completely. Yeah. Someone else my mentor said to me you should keep doing this business. You shouldn't fully abandon it. But I don't want you to take their photo. Yeah, but I don't want to commit myself to a date in the year where there's something else that I'd prefer having more fun doing this or this or other things like consulting. So you actually enjoy that. Like I know you're like, yeah, obviously good at it. Like do you enjoy it?  But like if you think about it I would rather help other people's businesses than my own. Yeah. That's like it's more serving someone and you get more out of it. It's more interesting. Long run anyway. Well, I've done it with my wedding photography. I could literally go to two even 300k a year. Well, just waiting for stuff. Just waiting for stuff.  But I don't want to do it. I was a personal trainer. I had the same problem then. It's a good problem to have. Yeah.  I remember the gym owner back then. I had one good month and he increased the rent. Well, I don't know. Yeah. And then the month after I went back down and he kept the rent and I'm like, I'm in debt. I was three grand in debt and you know what he told me? He goes, you should sell your car.  Jesus.  So I moved out. That's mad. I moved out and he goes, don't take, you can't take the clients with you. I was like, what are you going to do about? How could he stop that? He was chasing debt. He was chasing my debt. And Jesus.   Who's this? The gym owner. Yeah. He's not pulling your leg. No, no, like legit stuff.  But everybody pulled out of that gym.  All your clients or just people? No, just the workers. Oh yeah. So when I moved out, I remember when I had the gym in the studio, we set up all the mirrors. We had the nice foam mats. I've got a like six squat rack and it was like multi-purpose. You can squat on it or bench on it and we got the TRX on it and we went to the one-stop shop and I started collecting like dumbbells. I had a whole dumbbell rack. That shit's expensive though. Yeah, dude, it was fucked. Even like as a as a business person, it's lost a bit of money. Yeah, but it was, there's a gym gym equipment shop in Jundalup that I got like a loan for. Yeah. So then I paid it off gradually. Oh, that's a real deal. And then at the peak of my business, it was like 2015. Without the PT stuff? Yeah. And I was getting 50 sessions a week. Geez, that's heat. I was clearing two and a half grand per week as a full-time uni student. Fuck, that's alright. That was great. But then I was like, alright, how do I expand it?  And the obvious answer was to get a bigger space, get some PT's under me to service some of my clients and then I'd take a cut.  Why? I didn't want to manage people. Yeah. I'd time-manage myself sometimes. Exactly. Well, like, right now I'm learning how to do it because I've found something consulting and also You can't have no choice. Helping. No, I do have a choice. I always have a choice. No, like, because you're expanding, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, I want to expand this time. Yeah, yeah. Although I didn't want to expand last time. Same with the wedding photography. I don't want to expand. But you could always go back to the... Exactly. Like, it's not like it's going anywhere. I'll just do a couple bookings. Yeah, but... Is it that easy or...? So weddings are different because they don't get booked last minute. I can't just go, alright, I'm ready for weddings and get a wedding. So that's the whole commitment thing. Yeah, okay. So you get a 50% deposit, which is great. But then you have to wait 12, up to 24 months before you do that wedding. And by then, you might... Is that how far ahead they book you? Yeah. Fuck. Yeah, I had a two-year sales pipeline. Jesus. I had two years worth of bookings. I booked mine over 18 months in advance. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah, right. But yeah, so... And that's, like, what I talk to people about with business. You need to have a plan. Well, that's a thing. I just know that I want to be more than be a, like, a 5-way guy, a 9-of-5. I just don't know what to do. Well, people are asking me that.  Like, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Like, but I would get, I guess, over-concerned with, um, like, getting it wrong. So, okay. Like, the legalities and stuff, not really, like, in the paperwork stuff, not, like, having a go is the hard part. Nah. That's what I get, like, overwhelmed with. Yeah. Australia's pretty chill like that. Like, Australia's tax laws are pretty chill.   But, like, if you're in FIFO... They're ruthless sometimes. Yeah.  And this is the biggest problem that I'm finding. A lot of FIFO workers. Leaving without, like, having a secure... Yeah.   The money's too good and they've leveraged, overleveraged themselves with a mortgage, jet skis. See, that's one thing I don't understand. No.  I'm not going to go get a loan. Do you have debt? Just my bike. It's, I could pay it off like if I really tried in like three months.  Yeah, but it's like six grand or whatever it is. Yeah. But people, people have like a 600 to $800,000 mortgage based off of the leverage from their FIFO job. The banking system's fucked. Well, they calculated like this. They calculated what you can afford to pay back over 30 years.  That's not the bank's problem. Yeah. That's a you problem and they, they never tell you that. They never go, yeah, you are able to, to, we're able to approve your loan based off of your $100,000, $120,000 salary you get as a FIFO worker. That's unbelievable. And then I've had this conversation with a couple of youngsters who are 19, 20 years old who have been given a straight out of, out of the packet six, six figure salary. And I'm like, well, so they've just let like fresh out of high school company. Fresh out of high school they're 100K. FIFO. And I'm like, and I asked them, I was like, 100K, well, I don't think, 100K, but you know, then they get this fucking.  And I'm like, how do you think you're gonna like your job in five years? They're like, no, it's pretty good.  That's the conversation need to have. I got while the other conversation, We're blokes, man.  Get paid to do something you don't want to do. That's our job. Forever.  Your job is to provide for other people in your life. You can like it or not. But no one tells young dudes that. And they say, I don't like my job. Stop sulking. Do some work. You get paid to do stuff.  But you want things and you don't want to pay the consequence for it. It's okay to take a paycheck cut. I hate my job but I love it.  And there's definitely times where it's cruising. There's definitely times where it is. But when it's hard, you like... You love the challenge.  I'm trying to shake out doing drilling stuff. Right? And anyone who's done drilling, like anyone who's done it can relate, right? On nights you've got absolutely no sleep. You've been to the gym and you've got to like drill. Like and shake out meters worth of mud. Out of a pipe. With nothing but your bare hands shaking it. And a mallet. And you might be able to pump it out. You've got to do that for hundreds of... Well, meters and meters. And you could literally be shaking this heavy pipe for like 20...  No, that's the job. That's the job. That's the job? That's the job. And it's the hardest I've ever worked. And I'm 32 this year. I consider myself to be a hard-working bloke. I'm injured. I am injured. I'm always injured. If I told them how injured I really was when I started, I wouldn't even get a job there. But you've got to get on with it. So what if 10 years from now your health... This is why I... ...severely deteriorate? This is why I don't want to stay in these kind of jobs. Because you can't do it forever. Well, it's only because I like training.  These guys are hobble around. They still get the job done. But I like training and my performance in the gym and my gym effects work is a big deal. It's not that I can't do them both. But if I want to train like I want to train, I can't work how I should have to work. So it affects your job. So what's your perfect day like outside of FIFO? Outside of FIFO? Well, you're still working. Well, you're still working, but it's outside of FIFO. As in I'm not getting paid, but I'm doing work. No, you're getting paid. Well, money's not a factor here. Are you talking about a dream goal, a job or a dream thing? Yeah, money doesn't exist. What's your dream day?  Oh, that shit's overrated anyway. Yeah. Every now and then it's nice. A real dream day without talking about work would just be a day with my kids. Yeah. Like that, without talking about jobs and work like a day with my kids, a day with my misses. Yeah. Go to the gym like no matter what. Yeah. Have some good food. Listen to some music. You can achieve that life. Well, I already do that, but you could be happy with what you have, which you should be able to do so. Of course you can. Yeah. But you can also strive for more, which is what I'm doing. So what's your game plan for that? Well, that's the problem. I don't have one, because I don't know where to start. All right, let's talk about it. How long we got? We got a good 15, 17 minutes. If I was to say what I would like to do, so when I went to Geraldton, right, I was part of the Football Academy but growing up, right, I was, in my view, never black enough by the black kids to be black, never wide enough by the white kids to be white kind of thing.  But I went to the Football Academy, yeah, a quanta of, so in Geraldton they just called it Football Academy. Yeah. And I was going to leave school because I didn't enjoy all the teas and all that shit, but I enjoyed being there. And my mum begged me to try the Football Academy. You guys are like, nah, I'm doing it the normal way, like everyone else, I don't need no help. Just do school like my way, whatever. And I was like, okay, I was going to leave anyway, so I decided to have a go. And what they did for me, like in that age of my life, like 10, 11, 12, those years in high school, the Grand Jolly, Rob Collie, Rob Collie, Dale Baines. You remember all their names? Yeah, Heather Bratt, Mark Allen, Math teacher, all these amazing people. So the year group that I had were great guys. But what they did for me as a young boy who I didn't have my father around March, just helped.  I'd like to be one of these kind of people. Yeah. If I could pick something to do. Yeah. And... Just make an impact on guys. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of institutions and organisations. Yeah, but they're all kind of like... mainstream kind of vibes. Yeah. I want to be different, I want to be mine.  Yeah. I want to be like that, but like my way. Yeah. Kind of thing. Yeah. I want to start talking about it and then build a brand. I don't know how to do that. I'm not like that confident in what that means. Okay. I don't really understand what that means. All right. So you have experience. You have an agenda. You have something that you want to leave a legacy for your kids. Definitely. I would start with that. I would say... My son got a head boy. There you go. I found out two days ago. Oh, congratulations. Yeah. For primary school? Yes. That's awesome. That was us. Yeah, the boys. Yeah. So this is why I started making content on my channel and got confident in doing it. I asked myself, when my kids are watching this 20 years from now, who aren't even born yet, would they enjoy the content in a way that it's funny? Then I'm involving now to... would they enjoy the content for more than the humour, for more of the philosophical education point. Yeah. And that's why I want to start making content for them now. You do. Yeah. And the grandkids. I'll be in on those chats for sure. Yeah. But that's what I mean. Like, whatever the video is, let's say 10 years from now, God forbid something happens to you, right? Touch what it doesn't. And your kids want some advice from a fatherly figure. Why can't they still be you? I have great mates in my life who I know that they could already go to if they needed to talk to someone. And that's awesome. Yeah. I've made sure that whether it's accidental... The kids don't... Not every kid has that. Yes, I know. So why not create a platform that they can look up and go, search up and go, hey, I'm struggling with this and then it's you or me or whoever talking about it. And then all of a sudden, that funnels them into a sense of belonging because that's what you've got to do. So what's something that you'd tell your kids if they were in... They're all in their early 20s now, fast forward. What would you tell them? Don't chase girls. Chase girls. Pussy is the weakest form of satisfaction. Like, if you're in a committed or loving relationship with your partner, that's not the same thing. If you're, like, weak for a girl or, like, my personal experience is I stopped playing football. I had a goat waffle. They really tried because I was worried about girls. Just distracted. Oh, looking over there. That's all that was. I'm not saying I would have made it or might have. Who knows? But I didn't even try because I was distracted about something that when you learn late is pretty easy to get. But the thing is, the problem with young guys is you've got to be relatable to them at that age. Whereas if you heard the same conversation that we're having now at our age, you might be like, you might be like, you might be talking to that fucker and you might use that directly, like, that day, or change your behaviour that day. But kids at that age are hard because they've got to trust the man talking to them. That's why you've got to build a brand.  Maybe just having troubles talking to girls like in confidence. They're not going to listen. You've got to trust with a man like he's daunting. That's where the brand building comes in. That's where you start to put it out there. That's why I was able to build that sales pipeline of the wedding clients. They still text me. They say, I've been following you for years. Now I'm getting married.  I need you to be at my wedding. Whereas others would go, fuck, I'm getting married. I don't know any wedding photographers.  They have to stress out about knowing which one it is. If they're going to be a vibe, oh, there's Sev. Fuck, I've been following him for years. He makes me laugh. He's going to do that on my wedding day. So that's the same with you. I'm not a very chatty person to people. Like I am, but I'm not. I feel like I waste my breath a lot if I talk to people who just aren't relatable to what we're talking about. Small talk to me is quite hard to bother with. I find it very boring. I'm the same. But the thing is right, you're either planting the seed or getting to the point. You're reaching out to the right people right now. So the 1% of the people that do need to hear your message, they'll find you eventually. But if you put out one video, for example, even though you're not an outspoken person. I don't know what I'm supposed to say. Well, you said that. Don't chase girls in your early 20s. They're a distraction. That's one piece of content. Okay. I know I'm pointing out problems that aren't that big a deal. But I find, maybe because it's just my algorithm, but that's all I see is pages like that.  Perfect. Why is it perfect? Because you are going to make your own version that you think is better that will align with the people that are looking for it. So I'll give you the wedding example again. Wedding couples never married before. Never looked for a wedding photographer before.   Here's my website. Here's from photos. I'd love to be part of your day. That's it.  That's hectic. That sounds amazing, but man, this is a lot of work to do. There's a lot of things that I would think about doing between now and your wedding day as like a heads up. Give them value. And then they look at it.  I made a little podcast, a wedding podcast for a little bit. People are finding that podcast and they're still booking me from those episodes two years ago because the value was there. And they go, man, I trust this guy. Hire me, hire me, hire me. Yeah, that's irritating. It's like car sales. Exactly.    If you speak from your own truth, your own trauma, that's fine. Over time, that builds that rapport with the people that need you. It's going to be your guy. You're not going to be their guy either. I've seen heaps of gurus all the time and I'm like, oh yeah. They can't all be your guy. Tony Robbins can't satisfy everyone. No, no. But it's the same with even sport. You have one or two of your favorites. Andrew McLeod was my favorite AFL player. And I just like the way he went about it and things like that. And now in footy, there's so many characters and UFC as well. The most successful UFC people are also the most charismatic. They're selling their business.   But I never knew that Jose Aldo was a champion for 10 years. One, because he didn't speak English. And two, he's not an outgoing person. Well that's what I feel like. I feel like I'm the quiet person. He just likes to do the right thing. I obviously want to help people, but how do you help people without being noticed? Because I feel like that's what I want to do. What you could do is if you just want to dip your toes and find your own messaging, you can even just start volunteering like a day a week when you're home from FIFO. We had, I was a Gareth from ManUpWA, which is... I think I've seen that on a website. Start with something simple like that and just develop your own little message and you might like a lot that they do, you might find some stuff that you don't gel with and you might be able to develop your own messaging and then you're not going all in straight away. It takes time, so you've got to build it if you want to. You say you want to but you've got to go out there. I remember Instagram came out with the Instagram stories and I was like, I can't be fucked.  I was just like, no stories, just posts.  What's the worst that can happen? And then, yeah, got me here. But, yeah, volunteering and that's what I actually did. I volunteered my time. You did the photography thing. You provided people to join, didn't you? Yeah. And that was it. And they will come. Yeah, exactly. So I haven't checked out this ManUpWA or anything similar like a men's shed. How do you go from just hanging out with people to actually helping them, giving them guidance in areas of their life that they actually need? Is that just as simple as just having conversations? Yeah. How do you help your boys? I'm hard on them. I'm pretty rough on them. I don't give them much. They're pretty solid.  Yeah. But there's got to be empathy. There's got to be...   You don't have kids. I was a school teacher for a little while.  We're all children. And the kids that I taught at school, the ones that had the most trouble, their parents showed similar traits. They didn't have parents or they were telling them how to live. Mate, I try to be present. I could show you text messages from less than this week. No, that's fine. Trying to get in contact with my children just for a phone call.  But even when I try, it is so hard to get a phone call. He's doing... When your kids are adults, you'll be there. I've watched my son three times cry to stay with me now. Every time I say goodbye. It's so hard. I didn't think it would be. I thought, yeah, that's a nice feeling, but it's hard. But they listen. I feel like I've done a pretty good job. Obviously it's not just me, but I think we've done a pretty good job. It sounds like you, Dave. But that's the thing, with the kids, I know that when I started Tiktok for fun, it's because I realised that they found me online, outside of school. And I thought that was funny because they would see me at school.  I wonder if my kids, they watched Tiktok. Imagine you start a channel. And they see me. And you were just talking about life advice. Yeah.  I talk to them just like I talk to adults. I don't sugarcoat much. I have empathy, but...  Like if you have no pressure on them to pick up something and learn or try something, they won't. Or they might. You've got to follow your obsession. Whatever distracts you, you've got to follow that. I follow those things about my kids. And just that comes to me. It goes back to my original question. What would you tell your kids right now if they're in front of you in terms of anything? They're going to go through some hardship through life. So what do you want to do? You have to guide them. Us as adults with our kids and us as kids with our parents. My mum specifically, she was hard-ass. She was very similar to you and my mum. Very similar. This is all cultural differences now. Gen Z could say they're a bit softer because their parents were softer. We can say they're a bit softer. Yeah.  Or I was colossally disrespectful. Of course. That's it. There was nothing else. She always said to me, get a job or go to uni. One of the two things. And I got a job because I didn't want to go to uni. And then after that there was a bit of guidance. And then I left the nest. In my 20s I still needed her help. And then now in my 30s I'm giving her help. I do that. I think obviously myself and myself I've known you for a long time. I think we've both got parent mothers. Especially have done a very good job of raising boys. They had to be both men and father and mother I guess. But they did a good job. Through what you've achieved and what you're achieving and how you are people relate to you.  Exactly. I can say the same thing. All my kids are kids. My siblings are relatively successful in what they do in their own ways. My son and my sons. It comes from somewhere and it's not just like one person has done this but my mother had a hard life. I guess a lot of mothers did too but those strong people have made huge impacts for multiple people and it's pretty cool to understand that. That's what I'm not seeing at schools with their parents. Their parents were raised in a nice family which is good but they don't have that resilience. They finish school, they go to uni, they get a job and they start to work that job. They have kids that didn't have that hardship so their kids get away with more things. You know the hard times build the best book you'll ever read or that I've ever read. Hard Times Create a Strong Bed by Stefan Arno. He passed away I'm pretty sure.  Any guy who reads that, even a woman, to try and understand a man mate.  It's no fathers in the home that's a simple answer that's a simple solution but that's the answer. Fathers get taken away from the home take away a strong father from the home or male role model the house will collapse you do that to every house or most houses there's nothing there. So that's what I mean with yourself and me as well is if the kids are consuming bullshit online and this is why I'm pivoting outside of all the nonsense stuff like putting skits up and doing funny stuff every now and then to help people. And it's harder because the algorithm doesn't want that. Well not everyone's going to like that because some people only relate to you because you're funny. But they don't want to consume that because it's the truth.  They want to escape. Well that's the whole why people love sport it's an escape.  That stuff's like you're living through somebody else. That's sad. And going and consuming stuff online. You said you were trying to take up gaming again on one of your stories. I haven't touched it. I haven't touched it. That's one thing I all just taper off to a mature well that's what I did. I just basically play computer games until time was up to go back to work or I got to see my kids and I was just waiting for time to pass.  How do I do all this other stuff right now so that by the time I finish school I can play as much Minecraft as I want because the money that I have invested not savings invested is putting a roof over my head putting food on the table and I'm in my early 20s I've seen a couple of young entrepreneurs achieve it but it's that mindset that they get into I told my older son this I speak to him differently to the other two because he's a bit older. Well I talked to him about this stuff. Not because money is the reason but money gives you choices.