Introduce yourself. Oh, I think so. Thanks a lot. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. I know a lot more people have joined if you want to do a, you know, remind us who you are. Thanks again. I've noticed you didn't have any sheet music and now I'm duly impressed. Everything's memorized. Welcome everybody. I'm going to go back to my little screen share again to start the meeting if I can figure out how to do that. You should be able to share your screen. I turned it off for a second. Oh, I see. Welcome. We had this logo made this past year by Gotham City Graphics, Amy Radcliffe. Just sharing that real quick. We'll use that in our lawn signs when we eventually get that pulled off and in other materials. I think it might be in the minutes from time to time. So just an introduction to what the NPA is all about. This is from our bylaws. It's a lot of words. But our purpose is to provide the safe and welcoming forum for you to share your voice. And so we can all learn from your voice and the voices of everyone in our community. We want to cultivate this involvement by a diverse spectrum of this community. You know, to varying degrees we're successful, but we try to do that and we will be reaching out in various ways. Email is one of them. But we're also working on using bulletin boards and so forth to get people into our meeting and to see all the good things that are going on in the community. And our goal is of course to operate in a manner that models respectful, inclusive and culturally and economically aware practices. So we want to keep this a safe space again. And so we'll be doing that to the best of our ability with the zoom format. You know, this link is public, but Liam is helping us out with keeping things moderated. So I think what he told me tonight is the plan is to during this public forum or beginning phase, everyone can be on the screen chair kind of enabled mode, the panelists mode. And we'll later on as we move into our agenda, we'll switch to more of a webinar mode where you raise your hand to provide, you know, comments and participate in the meeting more. We do have a nice slate of participants today. So I think I recognize a lot of the names. So I'm not too worried, but you know, we need to keep keep be mindful of that. And I'll just say to close this out that, you know, we we aim to be non partisan and not make an endorsement of any political candidates. So that does apply tonight. We'll have a city councilor forum later in the agenda. So these are just, I just have the names of our steering committee. Shearston, you show Billy, myself, Joe, Julian, Nate, Scott, Andy and Ben, I almost all of them are on the call right now. So thanks for joining everybody. And of course, I mentioned Liam. He is our NPA liaison and kind of at the main controls for the zoom webinar. And thanks for to CCTV for recording this and putting on, I believe, still YouTube in addition to our zoom stream. And later you can watch it on their website. And I'm their capable access channel. I just made this page up real quick to remind you of how to use the controls right now. I think everyone is a presenter. So you'll have different controls. And when you get switched back and forth, there will be a little bit of an interruption. And but it will come back up in the participant mode next. And then of course, you use the little raise hand button to indicate you would like to, you know, speak for for a moment and ask a question or respond to something. So that's what those controls look like. And it will switch modes after our public forum section. I just wanted to give you a reminder that in case you've forgotten town meeting days coming up. I got my ballot. I think yesterday or the day before the clerk treasurer's website says they expect everyone to have theirs by the 19th, which is tomorrow. So if you don't, it suggested that you contact them to get 1. And I put down the ways you can. I just cut and paste this from the website. Looks like that's not a 0. Oops. Sorry. 430pm on Monday, March 1st is the last time to use the outdoor drop box. But if you'd like to return by mail, it's actually pretty soon is by next Monday. So I'm going to try to do that. But yeah, I'm going to keep bear in mind that if I can't pull it off, I probably want to go ahead and bring it to 1 of those drop boxes. 1 of them was at the DPW, which is pretty close to us. So recommend you keep that in mind the election or the town meeting day questions and everything are coming up very soon. Alright, and of course you can drop you can actually drop off at the polling place, which is Burlington Electric on town meeting day throughout the day. And 1 last thing. If you're over 70, you can register to get your COVID vaccine. So please do that. I am not over 70 yet, but it seems like it will be soon enough. So, you know, please make your best effort. So I'll move on to the agenda. Thank you, Laura again for the musical intro. And we're a little bit, a little bit past the 705, but I'd like to begin the public forum now where you can bring up anything that's on your mind in the community here. And I'll share. I'm just going to jump in. This is sheerston bone. I'm also a member of the steering committee here at the word five NPA and I just wanted to take a minute to preview our meeting for March, which is also on the 18th of March from seven to 830pm. We're going to do something kind of different and exciting at our NPA meeting next month, which is to try to engage in a community discussion early on in the meeting. So after public forum will have about 30 minutes where we're hoping to facilitate a conversation of neighbors with some questions. And have you engage and talk to each other and we've invited a number of our currently elected officials or those who are elected after town meeting day to join us. And to help us think about what those questions might be and to listen and to perhaps ask probing questions during that time. So we invite you to join us for that. I think it'll be different and exciting. If you also have a question that you'd like to discuss during that time, you can send it to any of us on the word five NPA steering committee. Our email addresses are on the CDO website and that's always a way you can reach out to any of us. And then during the March 18th meeting, we'll also have an update on the Burlington High School renovation project and a kind of touch base on the Champlain Parkway work with folks from the Pine Street Coalition and DPW joining us. So we hope you can join us on March 18. Thank you, Sherston. Anyone else like to raise anything during the forum section. Hi, my name is Linda Patterson. I'd like to make a statement. Can you hear me okay? Yes. Okay, hi. I'm a resident of Ward five and I have a comment I'd like to make about Burton corporations proposed hub, which will as many of you know include a 1500 person concert venue surrounded by eight neighborhoods. I'm very concerned because the project is not currently addressing the obvious traffic safety and congestion issues prior to opening. I'm not here to articulate a for or against. I'm here to ask that someone get Burton and Burlington to be proactive in mitigating the impacts to our surrounding neighborhoods before we no longer have a voice. For example, 600 cars are estimated for the larger concerts and Burton only has 426 parking spots. And so we believe that conditions should be made should be required that they will be adequate onside parking so that there won't be a lot of cars cruising the streets looking for places to park. And in addition to inadequate parking, there is an extreme lack of traffic infrastructure. There are no crosswalks, no shoulders, no designated pipelines or sidewalks for the 1500 concert goers to get in and out of home Avenue and Queen City Park Road one out of every three nights per year. Burlington another note past the climate emergency declaration in 2019, but the current traffic infrastructure surrounding this proposed hub is completely antithetical to this declaration. We need to be true to the declaration and to require that Burton and Burlington anticipate and mitigate big traffic jams and idling. Another issue is that the police department may be ceasing night shift patrols and we ask Burlington to assure adequate safety before the doors are open. As many of you know, the current higher ground has an average of, well, it's half the size of the new venue and it has had an average of 130 police calls in 2019. And I am concerned that there will be a huge spike in police calls from neighbors addressing middle of the night issues. We all want to make sure that this big change can be a win-win that we don't regret later, that we wish we'd done more. And I do know that the Act 250 hearing is March 10th and our voices can still be heard. But the question is who can speak up to be sure that Burton Corporation and Burlington are required to have ample on-street parking for all vehicles, safe ingress and egress for all pedestrians and bicyclists, neighbors included, an adequate police presence before construction begins. So please, we ask that you take action to put safety and the environment before profits and thank you for listening. Thank you for speaking up, Linda. Okay, I think we might be ready to move on to our next question. I just wanted to, could I say something? Yes, Andy. Andy Simon. I just wanted to point out to people who are interested in transportation issues. And maybe some of those issues hadn't been covered in, I know they haven't been covered in the mayoral debates that I've seen. And there's some good candidate questionnaires on the Burlington Walk Bike Council website, which is BurlingtonWalkBike.org. They have mayoral candidate responses to their questions about walking and biking and public transportation in Burlington, and they have city council candidate responses. So that's BurlingtonWalkBike.org. If you want to see where the mayoral and city council candidates stand on some of those issues about walking biking and public transportation in Burlington. And so I'll put it in the chat as well. Thanks Andy. Okay, any other comments during public forum? We're staying pretty close to on schedule in that case. Next we had Chip Mason to talk to us about the city council updates. Thank you, Joe. Can you hear me okay everyone? Yes, great. Based on the new format, let me first introduce myself. My name is Chip Mason. I am coming to you through your screen from the basement of my home on 33 Scarf Avenue, which is a small street between home and pine. I am a city councilor as my second job. My first job. I am an attorney who practices in downtown Burlington. And I live at my house with my wife and two daughters, one who's a freshman in college and junior at BHS as well. That's not why I was asked to be here though I was asked to come and speak to provide an update on issues that have been in front of the city council. Given my 15 minutes, I will sort of speak to at least two issues that I think are front and center before the council. And then if time allows, I welcome comments, questions, you know, thoughts from those who are participating. I will start with an issue that is before the council that somewhat got punted. On Monday evening, the council was scheduled to vote on approving, excuse me, the amended and restated development agreement. That relates to city place, which is for those who may not know that what the former mall in downtown Burlington that is now referred to somewhat jokingly as the pit. The city sued the developer approximately six months ago after the project had been stalled for five plus years and lots of drama about developer that was in developer that was out. Nonetheless, the project was not moving forward the city sued. In essence, our claim was seeking to force the developer to build what I'll say or the public improvements, which are basically are the reconnecting the streets of St. Paul Street and Pine Street that were, you know, cut off when the redeveloper, you know, the first redevelopment happened 60 years ago. And that litigation went into mediation and over the course of a number of mediation sessions. The city and the developer were able to in essence come to what was presented to us as a resolution with some changes to the initial development agreement that was signed back in 2017. And those the principal changes that showed up in the amended and restated development agreement were in essence upon execution, the developer would in essence deed rights to the two streets to the city of Burlington. So, you know, no more in the future when they get to it, the city would own the rights to reconnect St. Paul and Pine Street. And the second was in essence a guarantee from SDI Ireland, which is one of the company owned by one of the local developers that has come into the project. And in essence, that was a guarantee that if this project did not move forward for any reason, you know, they couldn't get financing, they were, you know, hung up in litigation, what have you. That SDI Ireland was agreeing to basically build the or reconnect those streets at no cost to the city of Burlington. The third material development that was there was in essence, a reimbursement of tax revenue of approximately $150,000 a year from the time when the developer went in and took down the parking garage and deconstruct. Depending on when the project moves forward that was about a between a, you know, 450 or $300,000 reimbursement for lost tax revenue. That other than those changes, I think there's a little bit of confusion in the public. Other aspects of the development agreement were not touched or reopened. And so there were a number, for example, of concessions that were made that were reflected in the initial development agreement that were not touched. Those include, you know, public amenities, a rooftop garden, committing to certain stormwater mitigation efforts on site, leads, lead gold buildings, all of that stayed the same. And so in essence, everything else was not reopened. Part of what was in that development development agreement were some labor provisions, you know, in essence, ensuring that the contractor paid livable wage that there were apprentice programs that priorities were given to, you know, the less privileged women, you know, owned businesses. Those were all labor provisions that were negotiated in 2017 with input from the trades council and other groups. That was why, again, and I'll speak without editorializing of my view, it was a little surprising, basically on Saturday or Sunday before our vote Monday to have an issue crop up that was going on between the developer and the AFL-CIO. The city was not necessarily directly involved in those conversations. But there was now being put forward a demand from the AFL-CIO that the city should either vote no on the amended administrative development agreement or postpone in order to ensure that agreement could be reached. So that was a bit of a, I would say as a counselor who's paying attention, that was a surprise on the last minute issue that had not previously been brought up because frankly it wasn't within the purview of the city or even discussed. So Monday night when we were, you know, the agenda item came up, it became, well, I won't say it became clear. It was apparent that this was an issue that a number of us counselors needed further time in order to discuss among ourselves and also afford some additional time, hopefully for the developer and the AFL-CIO to come to agreement. So by an 11 to one vote on Monday evening, the council elected to defer or table that agenda item until a, basically a time to be set by the mayor. It now appears that that special meeting will be held next Tuesday at five o'clock, I believe is the time that meeting will be held. So I have no other updates on that. I know there are conversations going on that I am not privy to at this point in time, but that is where that agenda item which has occupied much airspace currently stands. The other issue from a brief update that was a meeting before but similarly has occupied significant public attention relates to the public, what was called the public safety continuity plan. And that was the administration's proposal to do three things. One was to increase the number of authorized police officers from the 74 cap that was put in when the budget was passed back in June. That was the proposal was to raise that from 74 to 84. There were also two other components of the continuity plan relating to the hiring of what are called CSLs which are community service liaisons. Not officers, but rather, I would say, you know, none, people without a weapon, you know, who in essence work for the department and our liaison and the other piece of that was the engagement or hiring of community service officers. There was over the course of two meetings and two discussions that plan was very hotly debated, and the ultimate, you know, what was finally passed was a continuity plan that did not have or adopt an increase in the number of authorized officers, but did go forward with the CSLs and the CSOs. There was lots more going on at the council, but I did want to at least start with I think what for anyone who's who's watching the news or reading newspapers or reading from Port Forum. Those are certainly two issues that have occupied much time of the council, and that at least one will continue I actually I would say both will continue to be much discussed as we move forward. Thank you for that clarity. Let me stop and if there are questions either on either of those two matters or anything else. Council related that anyone has questions about I'm happy to answer and if not, turn it over to our state reps. Thanks Chip. Yeah, if anyone would like to ask a question. We have changed over the attendees hopefully didn't interrupt it too long. I don't know if it was talking but go and raise your hand if you want to raise the question. I think I see Amanda. I just had a question about with with the with the issue of labor, coming up with city place. I have a sense of whether or not the the unions could actually provide enough laborers to finish this job across the board, because my understanding from listening to Jane Nodell speak was that there's the potential that we're going to actually have to bring people from out of state, which might diminish the the ability of people here to buy for those jobs. So let me what all I can say to respond to that Amanda I can only report what I've heard I do not have direct knowledge I have heard differing information from each side. I have heard, not surprisingly from the developer and others who support, or you know not not going forward that there are fewer than 300 skilled union contractors in the state of Vermont who would be eligible to you know be able to do this work. If it were adopted. I have heard on the other side from the AFL CIO that there are over 8000 union members so that is the data I have because we did not open the agenda item and invite you know there was not an ability to engage in any type of Q&A with either of the people who are putting forth those different numbers. So that is the information I have and so I don't have a definitive answer to your question as to whether requiring union labor be used would mean we would be going out of state in order to get eligible contractors. And I should also say here's the volatility of this. So the request before the meeting was that it be 100% you know that every contractor and subcontractor 100% of the labor had to be union provided. Then there was a side letter that the developer put forth that said look I'm not going to commit to that but I will commit to paying you know at least the union wage. And then there was discussion again all behind the scenes that well maybe the demand had now dropped to 50% and since then I honestly don't know what the demand is because I'm not directly in the loop. So it's a little bit of a moving target from my perspective. Thank you Joe. If you're talking. Six screens away. I'm unmuted. I think we had another question from Molly next. My question is more about the public safety continuity plan from what I read in seven days was that there is quite a time lag or process to get officers up and running and so it sounds as if the the council decided really not even to add anymore. Is that correct? That is correct Molly at this time given the cap. The police department will not be in essence sponsoring. That's what happens is, you know potentially. The court candidates come forward. They're pre screened. If they meet certain criteria and desire they are basically advanced to the police academy, which is you know an in person in Bradford Vermont over a period of I believe three months. So it's a fairly extensive process. COVID has also further messed up any hiring in the sense of they have not had in person training courses so they're basically have not they've not been moving candidates forward. But yes, Molly, the, the, the hiring time is over an extended period and at this point the city is not moving forward with any qualified candidates. The stated concern is that there are 12 plus officers who are up for a retirement eligible this year. Obviously no one knows with any certainty how many of those will be leaving. But at least the chief has articulated a concern that we could lose some if not all of those officers. You're on mute again Joe. You might have time for a couple more questions I see two more hands up. So see it's yeah hi this is Jamie hands sorry I don't know how to change that. Okay, but I had another question about the, the union labor piece and chip I think you sort of explain this but I'm still a little confused is the requirement for union labor is it coming from the city council, or who who's actually requiring. Union labor. Sorry that was on me. At this point there is no request from anyone I mean there has not a little bit this may be procedural would it be possible for a city counselor on Monday to make a motion to amend the amended and stated development agreement to require union labor. Yes, I mean that is possible but that motion has not been made but at this point. The demand came from the AFL CIO and I will say certain counselors have publicly stated their position that they will not approve the amended and stated development agreement unless it includes such a provision requiring union labor. If I could just add quickly. So I work a bit with a number of mechanical contractors and I, I don't I think there's maybe a couple of union mechanical contractors in the state but I don't think that there are any that are large enough for this for the scale of this scope for. So I can't speak to other trades but with mechanical contractors I think it would be hard to find Vermont based companies that could do the work that our union chops. Thank you that is I think as I mentioned that is a concern that some others have raised as well. I can't remember Liam was it the following that had an end up next or Spencer. Spencer. Thank you. Can you hear me. Yes. Yes. I don't. I seem to have disappeared and a lot of people have disappeared from the screen, even people who are talking. So I'm not sure I haven't had this problem zoom a lot and I haven't had this problem before. Oh, it was the switch for this segment of the meeting to back to the webinar mode. So it's just the presenters that are in the panelists view now. So your view has changed. You're not able to do this, the video sharing. I don't think this. Yeah, you should be able to view it. I think maybe still in gallery as an attendee. Well, I can't. I usually I at least can get gallery and I can't get it. I don't know what the problem is. In fact, I'm my pictures, my life pictures gone. I think I only see about a quarter of the people who are in the meeting. And I don't know there's no way I can do it on my screen I can do what minimize webinar but I'm not sure that's going to help. Yeah, for this, we're just for security reasons moving folks who are not presenting the attendees list. And this means that your view will be changed significantly as rather than you're on the screen with everybody. You'll be in the attendees list, which means that you're viewing who's going to be speaking rather than seeing everyone all at the same time. Well, that hasn't been true. I could see chip. But the other people who spoke I couldn't see. So I don't know what I just want to raise that issue. I feel like I'm not even in the meeting here somehow. Thank you for letting us know. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure why that's why that's gone. Well, the faces you're seeing are all of the folks that are left on our agenda, you know, in certain state reps. Yeah, and including chip and Joan Grace. So it's a smaller number of people and then your steering committee so it doesn't yet there's another more than a dozen people that are kind of audio only at this point. I'm still there listening to you. Okay. Thank you. So I think Molly had one more question, I think it might be the last question for chip. No, I didn't my question was answered. Okay, we just forgot to lower your hand. All right, thank you. And again, my anyone has additional questions or wants off please offline, both my email and phone number are publicly available. Please don't hesitate to reach out. Thank you for this opportunity, Joe. Thank you, Chip. Thanks for the update. Okay. Next up on the agenda. I guess we're a couple minutes late. Well, let's see. Tiff Blumlee and Gabriel sevens with our chin and 65 State House update. Great. Thank you so much, everybody for inviting representative Blumlee and myself. Really great to be here. And we have there's so much going on that we are tag teaming. So I'm going to explain how we're planning on breaking this out. And so I'm going to give a little bit of update on about what's going on in my committee.  And then I'll give an update on some of the bills that we've been introducing. Tiff will then give an update regarding what's going on in other committees. And I'll just let you know, because you might be curious, like what we're hearing from constituents and sort of the key topic areas of concern. And Tiff, do I have that right so far? You do. Excellent. Thanks. Okay, and I have like a one minute and two minutes so we got to zoom through. So first, for people who haven't like been in the State House, it's really helpful to know that there's this. If you're in the committee of jurisdiction, then you are deep, deep, deep in the policy details. So I'm in house transportation so I am your go to resource if it has to do with like plowing mowing railroads trains. So anything related to moving moving around. Tiff is in a very different committee touches on many, many different areas than there's like judiciary committee there's health committee there's education committee.  Both Tiff and I are, we have many, many friends in other committees. So if there's an issue that you care about that you would like to know more about, we can reach out and find out about that. But that does not, we may not be in the day to day of what that specific issue is in terms of the policy testimony and discussion. So just a little caveat, everything does eventually come to what's called the floor. Not sure why they called that either, but when all 150 of us house representatives come together. We all have to place our votes. And so Tiff and I for not in the committee of jurisdiction, we get to place a vote, and we also get to work with our, our fellow colleagues. But just a little background in terms of, you know, why we talk about certain things and when we're like, hmm, I need to reach out to other people. That's, that's the reason. So a brief update on my committee. The exciting pieces. We had two different additional infusions of cash because of COVID. And what that means is that normally when we're trying to figure out what rail trail, what rail trail projects to support, how we're going to get the train up to Montreal and down to Montreal and we don't have to like search as hard for dollars. So it's very exciting. The other piece is myself with several other house transportation committee members received many co sponsors. We got 70 out of 150 co sponsors to support the transportation act bill, which requires a whole slew of activities that relate to rethinking how we support denser development and downtown development rethinking where we put when when a new project is going for a large permit design review process, not not to think only about what does that mean for cars but what does it mean for pedestrians what does it mean for bicyclists, putting more money into electric vehicles charging stations into programs that help low and moderate income for monitors access electric vehicles use electric vehicles just simply better, more efficient vehicles so an exciting bill. But most of the most of the time we're talking about sort of nuts and bolts transportation. And if I'm going to pass it on to you. Wow. Okay. Um, so I'm on the House General and Military Affairs Committee, which is, I think I said, the last time I was here is like this kitchen sink of committee so you could literally be within one afternoon talking about liquor or lottery regulation. The adjutant generals report on sexual harassment eugenics in Vermont and emergency housing. And so it's a little whiplash every every day but it, you get a good sense of all the different, the different players in different realms. And, and it is, is fascinating. The I guess I we passed one big bill out of our committee, which was actually a really important bill took three weeks to get it out and it was very controversial and it related to collective bargaining for school employees health care benefits and there was a proposal from the school board association to that the that all school employees including para educators and custodial staff, food service workers, etc. that that all school employees bear the same cost of health care, health care premiums and out of pocket expenses and this was this was a collective bargaining bill and it is, you know, it, it has now gone to the Senate, but I'm happy to say that the house passed it by a pretty wide margin, wide enough, I think to be able to survive a veto by the governor. But what all this, all this does is it allows representatives for those employees to really be at the table and and bargain and and that felt like a really very important principle to me and I was relieved that our committee passed it out 1010 we a lot of our portfolio. Can you explain what 1010 means. It means sorry 10 in favor one opposed and zero. Abstaining. Thank you, Gabrielle. So a lot of the portfolio in my committee is related to housing and as as you may know, the federal government just appropriated $200 million to the state for rental emergency rental assistance and utility assistance and it's a lot of money and and unfortunately it's pretty strictly constrained for those two purposes and for only folks who meet certain income thresholds and it is complicated enough that it will require an outside vendor to actually kind of serve as the intermediary so that the the funds can get out the door. The Appropriations Committee has taken this $200 million and it's it's set aside about 50 million of that hoping that we can we meaning like our federal delegations. Mostly can talk the Treasury Department into making using the money more flexibly and 110 million is going to emergency rental assistance and homelessness. Support. And I think that we could probably expect the portal to be up so people can register. And I think that we could probably expect the portal to be up so people can register. In late March or early may early April. I'm you know I'm I'm feeling very concerned about and I've gotten a fair amount of emails about how the position people are in. There's a certain amount of people that are in there. I think that we could probably expect the portal to be up so people can register in late March or early may early April. There's been a lot of emails about how the position people are in there's been this gap between December 15 and now when people have not had access to rental assistance. And I am hopeful that the state housing authority is able to get this online quickly. The Governor's recommend also appropriated $20 million to Vermont Housing Conservation Board which is a huge amount of money. In a one-time appropriation, our committee will be involved in taking testimony about its use and that I think will enable us to make further investments that the state made in the wake of COVID with more flexible money to address longer term housing needs as well. After ten years of trying, I think we might actually take up as a committee and pass out of committee a formal apology and commitment to further legislative action to address eugenics, the history of eugenics in this state and establish a Truth and Reconciliation Council. This is obviously kind of outside the COVID realm, but it has been many years in the making and just missed getting out in the last session and so we'll be taking testimony in the coming week or two and hope to get that out for a full house vote. I just would say on a broader scale in the legislature, it's pensions, pensions, pensions. It's Gabrielle and I talked to several teachers today from the district about this. We're very concerned. We aren't in committees of jurisdiction about that, but the waiting study, which will affect school budgets here is a bill I co-sponsored and would have an effect on Burlington and Winooski in particular school construction bill trying to get the fund to reinstate the state's commitment to funding school construction and I've been very heartened to see data collection as a part of a lot of different bills across the board. I think that that's something that is so long overdue and it's great to see it woven in as it has been. Sorry, Gabrielle. No need to be sorry, but you might hear the three-year-old screaming soon. The other things that we've heard from constituents, Tiff touched on teacher pensions on a variety of different issues. Burlington High School, we did have a number of meetings in December and January. We were glad to see the three and a half million appropriated to help Macy's. We were reassured that that would be coming and we're glad to see that. We're now going through, Tiff mentioned the governor's recommend. What that is is the governor has a budget that the administration puts forth and then the legislature gets to say, we like this, we don't like that and then there's a back and forth, back and forth until we finally hopefully reach a budget agreement. The other areas that we've really heard from you all on are vaccinations, both when can we get them as well as concerns about them. We've heard about unemployment insurance, as Tiff mentioned, and deep concerns about the data breach and what more are we doing to protect vermonters from potentially years and years of harm with regards to that data breach. We've heard about UVM cuts. We've heard about actually, we've had a lot of constituents talk about support for getting off of fossil fuels with related specifically to transportation, so that's great. I can actually help. We've also heard about Champlain Parkway and decriminalization of various chemicals and plants and F-35s and nuclear delivery mechanisms. Happy to take some questions. I think next month it might be a little bit more of a listening session. It's a pleasure to be here. If I end up going on to my picture, it's because my three and a half year old is making some noise in the background and I need to go and attend to her, and please do keep reaching out. Our emails are tbloomly and it's at ledge.state.vt.us and g7s at state.vt.us, but you can also just look us up online. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. Yes, thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks for the update. I remember to unmute this time. Very proud of myself. Do we have any time for a question or two from our attendees? We are a little bit past the beginning of the budget updates. Maybe we could just take one. And people can always email as well. Yeah, okay. I don't see anybody raising their hand at the moment, so maybe that's a men's luck. Well, we'd love feedback. I'll just say we'd love feedback on how much information do you want. We've posted in front porch forum. They've kind of been long. And it's just hard to know when, you know, what people need or want. So any advice you have to give us were open. I'll echo that. I've had two people say, I go to front porch forum so I can find the handy electrician. Not because I want to read 18 paragraphs from you, Gabrielle. So, but on the other hand, you know, there are folks who really want to read all that. So happy to get feedback. Thank you. One of our attendees said thank you for mentioning the Champlain Parkway and F-35s. Real-time feedback. Okay. Thanks a lot again. I think we are ready to talk to Mike Fisher. I'm not sure if Jeff was on about the Burlington School District budget. Thanks, Joe. I think Jeff is running a little late. I think he'll probably join us. And I want to clarify, do I have 15 minutes? Or are you going to start the forum with Joan and Grace at 8.30? Oh, I made a mistake there. Okay. Here. Fix it in real-time. So you want me to do it in like 10 minutes? It is supposed to be 15 minutes. Yeah. I'll see if I can make up the time for all of us. I'm going to try and talk for, get through this in five minutes and leave time for questions. So first of all, I want to start by saying that it's been a challenging year, very challenging year for the school district. Two generational challenges in the same year. So COVID hitting and affecting in-person learning is obviously huge. And then finding the PCB contamination at the Burlington High School campus is another generational challenge. And so the school board has worked closely with Superintendent Flanagan, who's been great and worked with his district staff to weigh the needs of supporting our students and their families in these times with the fact that this is a very difficult year economically for a lot of Burlington taxpayers. And so we kept those two things in mind and tried to balance. But I'm going to, if I can, let's see if I can, can I share the screen? I can't. Let's see. There we go. Thank you. So I'm going to just start with the net, with what people are looking for, which is, okay, what's going to happen? Oh, Commissioner Wick has joined us. Thank you. And so the net is that the proposal is to raise, oops, sorry, is this here? Shall, the budget proposal is for 95.1 million. And what that means on a per pupil basis is a number called equalized student. So you take a student and some students require more services like if they're learning English or if the high schoolers need more services than an elementary school student. So it's an equalized pupil. And the spending per pupil is only 0.89% higher than it is in the current year. That's in the proposal. However, there are lots of additional costs beyond the per pupil. And you can see here that there's increases to health insurance and wages, and there's significant increase for downtown Burlington High School. That's the renovated Macy's that's going to open up in just, I think it's two weeks. Very exciting. But also relocating our Burlington Tech Center programs. I think they're in six different locations this year. We're hoping to do it in just two locations next year. But the net of this is because of all these increased costs, the impact to hypothetical property taxpayer is estimated to be 6.88%. And we know that's a lot. And we know that's a big burden on taxpayers. But I do want to point out that we started this budget process looking at a 13, 12.8% increase. And both the superintendent and the board knew that that was just not tenable for for Burlington taxpayers. So as we worked the budget, we got that down all the way to 6.88%. But it is still a large amount. And I absolutely understand that. I think when we're talking about taxes, it's important to understand that there is adjustments done by the state of Vermont based on your household income.  It's passed to you through your rent by the landlord. But if you do own a home and you have our household income of under $50,000 or under, you're in, and I forget the name of it, but you're in a cohort where your taxes are protected and it's pretty low and it's not based on the value of your home. So the hypothetical income payer would, their taxes would go up if they're only making 50K for the household, would go up $81. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say only $81. $81 is a lot to a family that's only making 50K. But some other scenarios, if you are making between 50 and like it's 138,000, you are, get adjustments called income sensitivity. And so you can see some scenarios here based on a house that's appraised at $250,000, which is about the median appraise value in Burlington. So while the tax increase is significant, the impact is reduced for families that don't have as much income. I'd also like to mention that we did work really hard to reduce services or reduce costs and fine savings without impacting the services that we're providing to students and their families. So you can see a list here of 12 things that we reduced. There were no, no one's going to lose their job in the district. Staff have been working crazy, dedicated staff this past year. And we didn't feel it was, and all in service of our students and families. And so we have not reduced any open position, we haven't reduced any positions where someone's in it. There is a reduction of some paraprofessional positions, but these are historically been vacant and kind of reserved in case some student moves into the district that has, that needs a one-on-one para. So over $1.3 million of reductions where we can, you know, looking for pennies in the cushions of the couch, anywhere we can find it down to reducing copier costs. And interestingly enough, a lot of health insurance utilization, healthcare reduction, because people are actually using their health insurance less because they're sitting at home like me and Chip sitting in our basements, right? And not going out and getting injured or getting sick. Very surprising to me. The only two additions that the board approved and that the actually the superintendent Flanagan brought forward. One is to increase our program for multilingual liaisons. These are crucial resources that connect with new Americans in our district, new American families, and help to make sure that the families are supporting the students' learning. So they go into their homes and do things like help them register or to make sure that they have connection with their teachers and their guidance counselors. And the multilingual liaisons did an amazing job over the summer dealing with new American families that were pretty isolated during because of COVID. So as part of our goal to address inequities within the district and support our most vulnerable students, we're dedicating $120,000 to expand that program. The other item that we added is we're going to redo our strategic plan for the district, which is five years old. And we're going to redo that this summer. So we want to make sure that whatever we come up with, that there is some money that we can actually start to implement or take action on that plan. All right. Mr. Wick, anything that I missed that you want to flavor in? Mike, I think you have done a wonderful job. And I'll be curious if there are questions. Try to answer them, you and I. Okay, we do have a question if you're ready to take one. Absolutely. I'm just curious. In slimming down the paraprofessional positions that apparently have been vacant, how easily can you amend that if students do move into the district and are entitled to a one-to-one? How flexible is the budget for that? So the superintendent said that they will find a way to pay for that because any paraprofessional that's mandated, right, so if a student is on a what's called an IEP plan, right, some students have the need that they need a one-on-one and we are legally bound to give them a one-on-one paraprofessional that we're going to meet that obligation. And we'll find the money elsewhere in the budget. Thanks. I think we had one question from Meg. Hi, Meg. Hi. So I also have questions about the paraprofessional piece. My understanding kind of historically from the district is that we've trimmed down Paras over the years. We no longer have like many general Paras, kindergarten support Paras, right, and that often Paras that are assigned to a student are doing some support in the whole classroom, right, that's been kind of part of the reason they've been able to functionally not have kindergarten Paras is there usually is a second adult in those rooms, not always though. So we have a hard time retaining and attracting skilled paraprofessionals and have a hard time filling some positions at all. So I'm curious what historical positions are those Paras and how many of them are equal to $250,000? So what positions and how many? So it's a good question and I want to address what you're talking about over time, what has happened with the paraprofessionals and you're right there has been over the years a decrease and they cut the board at one point, cut all the paraprofessionals for kindergartens. And I think two years ago or a year ago we restored some of them. So it hasn't always been, it hasn't been a constant decrease, it's been a back and forth. The paraprofessionals that are in the classroom for the classroom are there for that purpose. Paraprofessionals that are dedicated or split between one or two students are there for those students and they do make a difference having another adult in the room. But at this time the board did not feel that this was the right year to add more paraprofessionals to the district. I don't know exactly how many parapositions that $250,000 were but what was told to us by Superintendent Flanagan and his senior director of finance is that all of those were historically kept every year in case a student moved into the district to need them and would need a one-on-one. So that's a lot of money. It was budgeted but not spent because those positions were ghost positions, like not actually ever filled functional. It was a contingency, it was a contingency line item. Oh wow, where would I find more information about that? So there's a budget, I'm not sure if it's out the full detailed budget, Jeff, do you know every year we produce a full line item budget? I don't believe the positions are on there, like what positions those are, what they're called. I've had a hard time finding information about how we are able to retain and fill positions as a general baseline. Maggie, if you want to send us an email sort of concise as possible with specific questions we'd be happy to pass it along to the superintendent and he can respond to us and you. Okay, thanks so much. Sure. Thanks. I think we have time for one more question from Jamie. I changed your name. I think I got it right. Thank you. I recall hearing a while back, this may have been before the PCBs were found, but that the high school was considering various options for the current site from like completely constructing a new building to renovating portions or all of the existing building. Has there been decisions made on how that is moving forward or is that still? It is, no decisions have been made. There's still a lot of testing and investigation going on. And I know it's taking much longer than I had anticipated and it's frustrating, but they are digging in and peeling back layers and trying to find the source of PCBs. And until they really understand what's going on at the site, where the contamination is coming from, how bad it is, we can't start the process of figuring out, can we salvage the building? What would it cost? What would it cost to do a new? So all the, how are we going to move forward is all pending, figuring out where this contamination is coming from and how bad it is. So right now we still don't know what the source of the PCBs? Correct. Well, we know some of the sources. We don't know the full extent and to what degree it's leached. I think almost every surface, every material in that high school now has to be tested and it's obviously so disappointing. It's very expensive. It's really awful, but we have to do it and we will figure it out or the professionals who do this testing and then they'll report to us and we'll be able to share that information with you. Got it. Thank you. And I do want to make one more comment. I know we got to go off, but Representative Stevens, I think, mentioned or Blumio, I'm sorry pronouncing Tiff said, around the governor and the legislature have put into the budget $3.5 million to pay for the renovation of Macy's into downtown BHS and that was great partnership and we're very thankful to the governor for putting that, proposing that and for the House for approving it and we're waiting for the Senate to approve that, but that is great partnership between Burlington and the state. All right. Thanks, Mike. Thanks, Jeff. Appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. I think we are ready to move to our final agenda item. Sorry for putting the wrong time in there. In my quick slide I popped up earlier, but the city councilor forum and our candidates you can find on your ballot. Actually, you can find Jeff on your ballot as well, but he doesn't he's not running against anyone. So he's going to get 100%. But you can find Grace Ahmed and Joan Shannon for the city councilor and they'll be talking to us next. I have both of you. Okay, good. I forgot to put the questions into my little slide deck. So sorry about that. I'll just have to read them. So first we would like you to introduce yourselves for a few minutes just to tell us what your your platform is and why you want to run that sort of thing. I think I'll start with Joan. Thank you, Joan. Just want to keep track of time here. I'm Joan Shannon and I think I know most of you. I have been serving as a city councilor first in ward five for many years and then more recently I became the city councilor for the south district which is wards five and six. And I will say that for all of the years that I've served it has always been exciting and there has always been something unexpected that I'm dealing with which I guess is what keeps afresh we'll say. I think that I try to bring the collective voice of the south district constituents to the table. Obviously we don't all agree on pretty much anything. So you have to kind of sort through the opinions and collect the facts from all different sources from our professional staff from constituents and from advocates on either side of any question. And I try to make that evaluation fairly and in consideration of all the information that we have and seek out information that we don't have. I also try to be a problem solver for for our community. A lot of people have issues navigating city services and when something bad happens they need help. I've helped people whose cars have been broken into sometimes repeatedly people who maybe a tree has fallen on the car and are there any city services that are available to them or city sewer backing up at the house or zoning issues. And all of these things I am not the decision maker for any of them. But I think that one thing I've learned to do pretty well after years of service and understanding how the city works is to be able to direct constituents to the services that they need. And I really believe that the purpose of government is to enhance the lives of community members and government is here to work for the community. We serve you. So I try to make sure that that happens for everyone. Joe, were we supposed to answer the second part of that question which is how we differentiate ourselves or is that a second question? I thought maybe you would sort of speak to that in this portion. Okay. But if you didn't give yourself enough time probably take another minute. Really really quickly. One of the things I've heard Grace talk about and I welcome her raising this issue at the table is that of direct democracy which I know is important to her. And I do have a different view of that particular issue. I believe in representative democracy. That's not to say that we shouldn't bring some issues to the voters for consideration. There's a lot of things that we do that are very complex and to put things on the ballot. You don't put 100 page documents on the ballot. You have to sift through that. And you can't always have all of that information there for the public to make those decisions. And I believe that there's a purpose for representative democracy. I'll leave it at that. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Grace we're just starting with introduction for a few minutes. Sure. I think my name is Grace Ahmed.  I study at the complex system center. I'm running for city council because I believe new voices need to be brought into the conversations that we're now having in the community. I feel like I'm prepared to serve on the city council in a way that I am not prepared to campaign to be on council. I'm not especially good at selling myself. And by my nature I really can't be and because it's antithetical to the way that I lead and my strengths. But since I'm here to give an elevator pitch, I will try to describe it. I enter a room with humility and an open mind and an open heart. And I don't work by showing up and being the most acerbic or needing to seem like the most expert voice in the room, which isn't to say I don't have expertise. But I work best when I show up in a way that is quiet and listening to what is said, letting others say things so that I don't need to say them, reinforcing the words of those who need to be heard, and speaking when it is necessary, because a question needs to be asked or a truth needs to be stated and that will not be spoken if I'm not there. I'm called to speak now because the incumbent does not represent me and 17 years is long enough for one person to hold political power in our city and it's time for leadership that knows how to nurture the leadership in others and then step back. I think the primary difference between Councillor Shannon and I is that they support increasing executive power even more than it has been increasing in the last few years and I support returning power to the people. The people most impacted by city decisions need to be a real part of the decision-making process. We need to address barriers to participation for all the folks in Ward 5 that we don't see on this call tonight. Do I have all the answers about how to do community outreach and engage all residents in decision-making? No, but I have strategies for listening campaigns and qualitative analysis and a commitment to working with the community to understand what the barriers to participation are and then to dismantle those barriers. And for platform, food security and housing security are the most basic of needs for the people of Burlington and they are my priorities. We're woefully lacking in low-income housing. Rents continue to climb. The hot pandemic housing market is making gentrification faster, threatening to speed up the pricing out of workers who work in the city in service jobs in our schools unable to live in our city. People living on fixed incomes and the homeless are still waiting for the city to ensure basic sanitation needs. We can do better. Thanks, Grace. Okay, I did, the screen sharing is kind of awkward, but I'm going to try to share this question. I can quickly. Okay, do you see that? So the next, the first question we were going to ask you specific question was that each of you have pledged to transform public safety in the city. What steps do you propose or support to accomplish this in a way that is racially just and sensitive to residents' safety concerns? I'm going to stop sharing and I suppose we should begin with Joan to keep the order. Sure. First, I want to say that it's not true that I support increasing executive power, not sure where that came from, but that's not the case. As far as policing, my vision for public safety is not to defund the police, which is the last thread of our social safety net, but rather to refund everything else that has put so much pressure on the last thread of our social safety net. What I see happening in our community is that we really have defunded mental health care. We have defunded housing initiatives and other types of care. And we've created a lot of social problems in the process. And the last person to call when nobody else will come is police. And right now, I know firsthand, having spent the summer trying to help somebody with severe mental health problems, trying to help them get the aid that they need, it's impossible. And the police come because nobody else will. So defunding the police doesn't solve our problems. We need to start investing in things like the Kahootz model. And a lot of those who support defunding the police also support the Kahootz model in Eugene, Oregon. And that is where there is another organization that provides, they get called, to mental health emergencies. And they serve both with the police and can go to calls on their own. But the development of that model didn't involve defunding the police. And certainly, if we can solve our other social ills, if we can fund things that help people make their lives work, I do think it may be possible to then defund the police, because we won't need those services. But you have to have a plan to get there. And you can't just take away the last thing that we have when you have nothing else put in its place. And those are complex. And they're also regional problems. They need to be addressed not by just city government, but by, you know, kind of regional statewide government, as well as the hospital. We do have a crisis, and it does need to be addressed. And we all need to be coming to the table to address that, and not really blaming the police who are the only people that still come when called. And I have had parents of children with mental illness call me crying, because they fear that we're not for the police, that they would not be alive. So I do also think that that, you know, there's policing evolves, and we need to do better. We need to continue to train in different ways. I think that the Vermont State Academy certainly needs to change their training model. But we can work on all of those things, not just one thing that really isn't going to solve the problem. Thank you. Thanks, Joan. Grace, same question. I could read it again, probably. Probably. Yeah, just for anyone that's yeah, I page is back. So each of you have pledged to transform public safety in the city. What steps do you propose or support to accomplish this in a way that is racially just and sensitive to residents safety concerns? I think I think that we first need to recognize that not all citizen safety concerns are created equal. The level of fear that has been planted into the community over ending of a proactive patrol between 3 30 and 7 a.m. When the lowest call volume of the day is is very problematic. But I recognize how difficult it is to disarm fear with logic. And so I'm kind of just going to leave it there. But what we have heard over and over, whether we have ears to hear or not is that black people in Burlington are not treated the same by the Burlington police as white people are. This is a non starter for public safety. It's time to own it. We cannot just say I'm not racist and move on. We have to fix it. But to begin with, we need better police accountability. We need an independent community oversight board with investigatory power and disciplinary power that can address police misconduct as the ACLU recommends. I'm deeply disappointed with the incumbency. The inability to work through a solution to that and that if there were problems with the proposal that was given, fix it. That's the consensus and the compromise that's needed. Not getting others to agree to mayoral oversight alone. Accountability after something has gone wrong is paramount. But we need to hurry along to thinking more about front end accountability of our public institutions. We need public voice and input in policy strategy and in deciding public safety priorities. I support chief Murad in the creation of community support officers to divert some calls to service for civilian officers rather than armed police officers, especially for low level public order issues and then using the swan resources in a better way to prevent and respond appropriately to violent crimes that threaten the safety of people in our community. I'm interested in exploring models for mobile health care like Joan mentioned for those who are experiencing issues that the police aren't sufficiently trained for. My understanding from chief Murad is that that is not a high number of call volume and so the utility of a program like that might be limited but very interesting models for sure. And at the root public safety is about a lot more than policing or not policing. It's really to me about creating a sense of community where we trust in each other to watch out for each other and to provide help when our people in our community need it. So I'm very interested in building on successful pilot programs like the ISGOOD which was a program in the Isham Street neighborhood where community members gardens together and crime rates and call volumes to the police went down and that community program was credited because of the way that it built community and gave people ownership over their neighborhood. And then gardening in particular is great for environmental stewardship and creating pathways that are good and safe for pedestrians and it can be part of having our bikeable walkable city. So when I talk about transforming public safety it's some of those very local solutions that are based on us building community with each other and safety with each other. I think there's all kinds of anecdotal stuff and Joan brings some interesting ones but I'm going to leave you with some from friends of mine who are not white. They do not feel safe calling the police if their child is having an issue because maybe the police are going to show up and make things worse.  Thanks Grace. Is there time for rebuttal? I guess I didn't schedule that, didn't there? Maybe we could do one minute. I think I agree with Grace that ideally we try to reach consensus on these things like the police oversight body and I would have loved to do that. I supported the racial justice. I did not support the racial justice resolution but I did support the idea that the police commission would have a greater role in police oversight. But when it got sent to my committee, my committee members produced something that was entirely different than what had been agreed by the council. And because there were two progressives on that committee, which I chaired, they simply outvoted me each time. And if you're not working with people that have a goal of reaching consensus, I don't really know how you do that and they would not even let me set an end time to the meeting without outvoting me. So things are unfortunately hostile on the council right now but I do share that goal and think that we should be working towards consensus. I also completely believe in all of the benefits of community building and I have done lots of community building myself. But when you have a situation where a man has gone after his wife with a weapon and she is bleeding on the sidewalk and the community members come around and they do work to protect each other, we still need the police. It doesn't replace that. So yes, we need community and I believe we need community policing working with us as a community. Thanks, Joan. Well, since I gave you an opportunity to add a little bit more there, I guess, would you like to add anything else, Grace? Oh, sorry, I forgot to tell you to unmute. I was looking. I got you now. Community policing sounds nice because it has the word community in it. Community policing is broken windows policing. It is a way of dealing with law enforcement that we know causes racial disparity. You can talk about we shouldn't get rid of the police. I didn't say we should get rid of the police. I don't think at any point I've said that. I said that we need to get rid of racism in our police force. Thank you, Grace. I'm going to move on to the second question, which is actually quite different. But we'll change your pace. I'm going to try to share again. I can do it quickly. One second. Am I sharing the second question? In your opinion, how can the City Council play a role in turning the demolished mall site into something that benefits all Burlington residents? I guess we wrote this question a little bit before the events of the last week or so. But I think it's still pretty relevant because we don't know exactly what's going to happen. I think this time I will start with Grace for this question. Sure. I think especially given how it's developed, I have less to say about this. I mean, the Council gave us this undeveloped mall in the first place. So they had a role in that. I think in the short term, they're making the right decision to delay a vote to give AFL-CIO a chance to try to negotiate and see if there's a way that we can get union workers on these jobs. I think that even failing a full commitment to union workers, there's other parts of that social good that can still be done. There's no reason just because there's not enough HVAC union members to abandon apprenticeships for women in BIPOC. There's other parts of that that we can continue to press on on the social good. Beyond the details of the workers during the construction phase, I think the City just needs to continue to hold the developers accountable for doing their part that they've agreed to, the public improvements, which now has been settled in a way that I understand those improvements will happen regardless of how long the project is stalled, which is a positive development for us. What I'd like to see in the mall development is public spaces, free indoor public spaces that people in the community can go to where we can get out of our economic silos and meet other people in the community. And I still would like to see real low income housing incorporated into new development. I think probably the train has already left the yard on negotiating that kind of thing. And so at this point, what the council can do maybe is learn from this development things about what maybe should be included in future development because having actual low income housing instead of just this nod to affordable housing where you have 20% of the units that half of the people can afford. Really making contracts with developers who are going to create more public good than just tax revenue. Thanks, Grace. Joan, I'll share this again. Oh, I'm good. Yeah, I think almost everything that Grace mentioned is in our current development agreement and has been for a long time. It was actually in the first development agreement. And we wrote the development agreement in a way that really did protect the city. We're protected financially. And we are getting the public benefits that we set out to get when we went into this development agreement. Please keep in mind that the city does not own the site, and we don't get to develop it as we please. This is owned by a private developer who has rights according to our zoning ordinance to develop this property. But we wanted certain things. We wanted public benefits. And for that reason, we entered into a development agreement to negotiate these public benefits as part of the project. There is, Grace said that she wanted community indoor space. There is. There's a community room as part of the agreement. There's also a rooftop viewing access point for the community in this agreement. There is affordable housing, 85 affordable housing units. And I know Grace says that she wants it for lower income. But actually, the standard that we have was, I believe, unanimously supported by the city council. Because we have to balance if we hold the bar too high in the requirement for market rate housing, subsidizing some of the housing. The result of that is nothing gets built because the private developer then can't afford to build it. And so we went through a community process, bringing in the state stakeholders. Most importantly, the housing advocates in our community have supported what we are doing to assure that there is affordable housing in this project and every project in Burlington. There are apprenticeships that is required. It was required in the original development agreement and it's required in this one. The AFL-CIO has been engaged in this since the very beginning. And strangely, nobody ever, I won't say nobody ever suggested that this be exclusively for union workers. That was talked about, I think, in 2015. And we realized at that time that if we made a requirement that this was a job only for union workers, we would not have local workers on this job site. Or we would have some, but they would be largely out of state workers because we don't have enough union workers in Vermont. The market for trades, I think, is pretty good and they're good paying jobs. So only about 10% of the trades people in Vermont are, there's about 11,000 trades people, I'm told. About 10% of them are unionized, which is consistent with what the union has told us. Though they haven't told us what that distribution is or really the availability for this project or whether they're actually in Chittenden County. As people have been emailing me in support of union labor, most of them are coming from outside this area. They're coming from Brattleboro. They're coming from New Hampshire, these emails that I'm getting. So I think what's really important is to make sure that we're paying excellent wages, that we are getting excellent benefits for the workers, that we have the apprenticeships that we're looking for, that we have good working conditions, and that we have a local workforce that we are providing jobs for people in our community. And all of that is there. And we are also making up for the taxes that we didn't get because of the delay caused by the private developer, not by the city council. We're getting those back taxes and we're still getting our streets built and we're reconnecting Pine Street and St. Paul Street. And this is, the delay is dangerous. People can walk away from the table during a delay. So I think it's really important that the council move this forward. We have agreement and at the 11th hour, you cannot in a negotiation move the bar. So you can't start imposing union labor when nobody asked for it for years at the 11th hour. And we didn't ask for it because it doesn't make sense in our market. It's not for the benefit of our community in this case. Though I support union labor and union labor will have an opportunity to bid on this project, not exclusively. Thanks, Joan. We've gone a little bit over our official end time. But if you'd like, I have a pretty easy question that I could throw back at you about the NPAs. Let's see. Sorry, this is taking so long every time. It's like five clicks. So my sharing now, what do you see as the highest and best role I guess I went a little weird with the plurality there for the city's NPA. I'll start with you again, Joan. We'll alternate. Thanks. Well, I have been coming to these NPA meetings since before I was on the city council. And I think it's a great place to get together with neighbors and discuss neighborhood issues. It has really evolved over time. And in some ways, I think it's more important than ever. We have ways to connect now that we did not have when the NPAs were created by the Bernie Sanders administration in the 80s. I didn't participate then. But we have social media. We have front porch forum. We have these other ways of communicating and outside of COVID. This is an environment where we can actually get in the same room. And that has a real advantage and some disadvantages as many of us probably, most of us on this call are challenged by having our families and attending evening meetings. And I am so impressed that everybody here, I know you're all dealing with those same challenges and you make it happen. But for a lot of people, you know, they can't or they're just too exhausted. It's not the priority. And I know it's sometimes frustrating that we can't get more people in the room. But I do think providing the opportunity, a lot of people did come tonight. And having, I think probably your challenge is often finding the topics that the community wants to engage in. I think you're doing a great job. And I can't really, I wish I had some silver bullet for you. I would give it to you if I did. You probably know better than I do. And I'm grateful for you taking it on. Thanks, Joan. Grace? Yeah. So I have a couple of things. One is going back to the Bernie Sanders of the 80s, NPA. And the sort of original purpose of the NPA was to, partial was to increase resident participation in the community development block grants. And I would like to see the NPAs. I know that people are elected from the NPAs to serve on the advisory that does that. But I think getting more low-income and moderate-income people involved directly in those conversations about how best to serve low-income people and how to create community programs for the people that are getting them would be a great goal for the NPA. And I think at this point, the best purpose is to, word by word, hold the NPAs accountable for eliminating barriers to participation because of the function that the NPAs are supposed to have in that direct democracy. And for the South District in particular, we have a real problem with not having any public spaces, so to speak of, anywhere in the district. I used to go to NPA Ward 5 back when it was at Public Works. It has moved where it's been, before COVID it was in a bar. Ward 6 is in a church. Priority 1 for the South District needs to be getting NPA meetings into public spaces that are welcoming for everybody, regardless of religion or income or health problems like alcoholism. I think it's really a problem where these meetings are happening. Thank you. Yeah, thanks a lot, Grace. Okay, well, that was, I only had three questions prepared for you tonight. There actually was a hand up earlier. I don't know if it was a mistake, but you know, we probably could take a moment or two, not to go past nine or anything, but there I see Gabriel. Yeah, I just wanted to say thank you. I think it's very challenging. People are juggling so many things, and you know, I just applaud all of you. There are many of you that pull these meetings together. You put a lot of thought and energy into hosting them, and I just, you know, kudos and thank you. You can host a meeting, but you can't force people to join. And I, you know, if we can find a different venue that might have different feelings to it, that'd be great. But thank you all for the work you're doing in Joe, in your basement, and everybody else. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, you know, this format that we have to do to protect public health right now is limiting, you know, but we're definitely looking forward to a future where we can, you know, kind of start over with the inappropriate space and, you know, maybe it could even be outdoors sometimes during parts of the year, where, you know, we can include more of our community, because it's, you know, obviously we aren't, we aren't getting everybody to attend. So I appreciate that. Thank you for listening us tonight. This was great. And I appreciate the questions. Sure. Our pleasure. Yes. Thank you very much. My dig at spaces is not at the people running NPA meetings. That's really a city problem that we don't have a public space in the south end. But I understand that you guys are all here volunteering your time to public service. It's definitely good to hear, you know, this feedback, I think, you know, as we thought about the public works, the school and other places, and some are definitely more welcoming to the public than others. So thanks a lot. Thanks again. All right. So again, we'll look forward to our next meeting in March, where we're going to talk about some of those topics and kind of our vision for, you know, the future of the NPA for Ward 5 at least. So thanks again for joining tonight. And don't forget to vote. Like I said earlier, you're supposed to send in your ballots by mail if you're doing it that way by like Monday. So get on it. Or else you can use the drop boxes and of course, town meeting days on the second. So thanks again, everyone. Have a good night. Good night. Thank you. Good night all and everyone.