Let's see another question which is a composite asset. ABC group purchase a vehicle at a cost of, these figures are small basically just to make calculation easier. On 1st of January 2020 the individual components of vehicle are and useful lives are as follows. So tires, transmission and trucks, body. So life of tires is 2 years and transmission life is 5 years and truck body is 10 years. Now you require depreciation charge for the year 31st December 2020 using composite rate, straight line meth. You know it's very difficult that you add this total 50,000 and divide by why? 2 years of 5 years or 10 years or maybe the average of this. No that's not the way. See here tires cost and life is 2 years. So depreciation per year is 3,000. Transmission 10,000, life is 5 years, the per year depreciation is 2,000. Trucks 34,000, 10 years is the life, so depreciation is 8,400. So the composite rate will be add total depreciation divided by the cost of the assets. 8,400 divided by 50,000 multiplied by 100. So rate comes to 16.8%. So instead of going each item, depreciation separate separately, we use this one. Yes, it's 16.8%, depreciation for 2020 first year. That is 50,000 and 16.8% which is 8,400. So this is how if a complex asset, what we do, we divide it into different parts and for each part we estimate the life and even residual value if there is. So we work out depreciation for each part, put together total depreciation divided by the total value of the assets and work out the composite rate. Use that rate year by year to charge your depreciation.  Now total is 50,000 and total depreciation of the whole truck is 8,400. So the life is 5.95 years, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years. No, the whole truck composite life is 5.9 years. Now assuming useful life of vehicle is 200,000 km instead of a percentage of 16.8%. We are talking about now that if this truck useful life is 200,000 km and in 2020 vehicle operate only 40,000 km, company use activity method of charging depreciation. So instead of separate separate, we are using activity method. So look here, what will be the amount of depreciation expense for 2020? Depreciation rate as activity 50,000 divided by 200,000 km, so rate comes to 0.25 per km and during 2020 they operated for 40,000 km. So if you multiply the rate of the rate, so depreciation comes to 10,000. So this is how activity base or composite rate, depreciation rates are going to be used. Thank you very much.


Okay, Bingo, we're back. It's the one o'clock rock. I'm Jay Fiedel here on Think Tech, and we're talking about—what are we talking about? Community matters, and today, ooh, a good topic, carbon tax, the carbon tax in Hawaii. How would it work? What would it do with Tom Yamachika, the president of the Tax Foundation of Hawaii? Welcome back to the show, Tom. Thanks for having me on the show, Jay. Yeah, this is going to be a great discussion. So first of all, what is the carbon tax? I mean, it's taxing carbon. Is that what it is? Yeah, it's kind of a variation on fuel taxes. You know how we pay for various things when we fill up at the gas station. But carbon tax is a little more comprehensive because it's imposed on all fossil fuels, but it's based on the amount of CO2 that burning the fossil fuel gets into the atmosphere. So like coal is the worst. So coal spews out a lot of CO2 per unit of energy that it produces, per British thermal unit, and then the least is natural gas. So there's kind of a spectrum between those two extremes and where it falls gives you the amount of tax that is put on the product. So you have to have a list of things, you have to have sort of a spectrum of how much carbon is in this or that or the other thing. And am I right about this? So you have different kinds of coal. That's right. Different emissions from different kinds of coal. So you have to include multiple coal products on the spectrum, right? Right. As you would with natural gas, gasoline, naphtha, other kinds of hydrocarbon refined products. Why do I feel that's hard to actually enforce? Because you've got to have self-reporting. You can't have the carbon man come out to see you and say, hmm, how much carbon are you spewing out today? What the Tax Review Commission, when they looked at the issue about a year ago, they said, well, it's not that tough because there are only a number of people that are fuel distributors.   It's the guy who sold me the gas in the first place. That's right. He's going to get taxed. Right. It'll be the distribution point. So it's only one incident of tax in the chain of distribution. Right. But the interesting part about it is like the way we have our system here, there are already four different types of tax that apply to fossil fuels. OK, we have a liquid fuel tax. OK, and that's for a highway fund. So if any time you go down to the pump and you pay for gas, there's X number of cents. And that's actually the first two types because not only the state, but the county gets to impose liquid fuel tax. OK. OK. And that's for either the state highway fund, county highway fund. And that would only apply to fossil fuel, ordinary gasoline kind of fuel. Liquid fuel that's used to propel a motor vehicle on the highways. Supposed to be biodiesel. This carbon and biodiesel too don't get me wrong. Yeah. But so, OK, anyway. Yeah, I'm not sure what the tax rate for that is. I mean, they have different tax rates for different types of liquid fuels. That's under current law. OK. So, then there's what's called a barrel tax. OK. And that is not limited to liquid fuel, so that applies to coal, natural gas, anything that can be burned for fuel. Anything that's classified as fossil fuel. And it's applied to gasoline on a per barrel basis, I think it's $1.05 per barrel. And then on a BTU equivalent basis to any other fuel. What's the last one? Any other fuel. Any other fuel. Any other fossil fuel. OK. Well, I see. OK. So, it's called a barrel tax, and then it also applies to other fuel as well. Yeah. On a equivalent basis based on the amount of energy that it produces. BTU. Yeah. Right. OK. So, that's the third. And then, of course, the fourth is GET, because it applies to everything. So we have these four taxes that now apply to fossil fuels. And this carbon tax would add a fifth. So if I buy a gallon of gas at the pump and say it costs me, I don't know what it costs now, $3.75 or something, I don't know whatever it is. How much of that is going to go to the four taxes you mentioned? Actually quite a bit. I mean, I haven't sorted all of it out, but I think more than half. Wow. I think more than half would go to taxes. Wow. Now the fifth tax, that would be the carbon tax. And the carbon tax, that would, again, be on the distributor rather than me as the driver. It would be paid by the distributor. But it would, of course, it would be reflected in the price that you pay at the pump when you drive up to the gas station and look at the pump and go, oh boy, I got to pay this much? Yeah. Yeah. OK. Anything that emits carbon. And there'd be a spectrum of rates there too on how much carbon you're emitting from a given fuel or product or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Does it go beyond fuels? I mean, somebody once made the argument at the time, I thought it was really off the wall, but that we bring in furniture with oil on it. Would it go to the oil and the furniture? Not yet. But I mean, again, it depends on how the tax is written because, like, for example, there is a federal tax on ozone-depleting chemicals. You know, like, so if you buy a refrigerator or a freezer, there are these freon gases that. In the refrigeration system. That's right. So that's taxed on the federal level. Yeah. So what it also applies to is it applies to things that were manufactured using that type of ozone-depleting chemical. So like, for example, when you are trying to manufacture an aircraft and you buy avionics, right, it turns out that the processes to make the avionics use a lot of CFCs. So there's a lot of ozone-depleting chemical tax imposed when you import avionics. Okay. So that is taxed to the manufacturer of the avionics? Yeah. Or whoever brings it into the country, basically. Okay. And then that means that ultimately the airline will pay, you know, it'll fall down to the airline and ultimately it'll fall down to the passenger. Right. Because we have to pay for what he pays and so forth down the chain. Okay. That already exists, huh? That already exists. But that's been a successful tax in the sense that we don't have so much ozone anymore. Well, that's debatable, but at least the tax is there. Okay. All right. Carbon is a problem not solved at all. That's right. And, you know, getting people to buy into a carbon tax has had some problems. For example, in France, you know, the city's now turned into an inferno because the French president had proposed this new carbon tax, I mean, which amounts to like maybe 25 cents a gallon. Okay. But, you know, people wearing these, you know, yellow vests. Guillaume Jean. Yellow vests. Yeah. They went into the street, you know, started torching things, you know, flipped cars over, total mayhem. Total mayhem in Paris. I really wonder. And then, of course, he backed off on that. But they still protest in any way and the protests continue and I don't know how he's going to, you know, bring things back to balance. Well, yeah.  But that means it comes, it's coming back. Sure. Right. That's what they didn't like. You know, that's the problem. I mean, we have—COP 24 is going on right now in Poland, which should be more advanced than COP 20 or 21 a few years ago. I think Donald Trump has really gotten in the way of the COP meetings and efforts to ameliorate global warming. And here, Macron goes out and he actually tries something on a national level for France. And this is what he gets for his trouble. So people are really not committed to dealing with global warming and carbon in the atmosphere, are they? Yeah, you know, the way it has been described, it's kind of very telling. I mean, you know, we're glad we have leaders that are thinking about the end of the world and trying to prevent the end of the world. But most of the people are trying to make it to the end of next week. They've got to pay, you know, they've got to pay to put food on the table. They've got to pay the rent. They have to, you know, deal with keeping the lights on. You know, a lot of these causes are not really resounding with those types of people. I mean, if you live in the suburbs, which a lot of working people do, you've got to pay for gas to go to work. And don't tell me, yeah, they can ride rail. I find this ultimately very tragic because climate change is relentless, it's happening. To paraphrase Marie Antoinette, right, let them ride rail. Sure. Yeah, let them eat cake, too. So, you know, leadership means trying to make the people understand, you know, it's like rail in Hawaii because in Hawaii, the government foisted rail on the people before the people knew what they were getting into. And that's why there's all this contention, in my view. So the same thing here. He tried to foist the carbon tax on the citizens of France, on Belle France, before they really knew what it would cost them and how it would affect their lives. And that's why he got the pushback. And that could happen elsewhere, too. That could happen in the United States, don't you think? Oh, yeah. Recently, Washington State, in the past general election, had a referendum of sorts and they would adopt a carbon tax. Failed miserably. Failed miserably. And the question then becomes, well, could it be replicated in other states? Could Hawaii, because of its penchant for leading the world in environmental issues, be the first to jump out ahead of the fray and adopt a carbon tax? I mean, that's what the Tax Review Commission report said, phrasing it in those terms. But is that really what the people want? Well, let's examine it and see how we feel, you and me, about how—and I know the Tax Foundation looks to avoid taxes that are really not necessary. So you start out with a bias against a given tax until it can be proven as valuable. Am I right about that? Yeah. And the way I'm looking at it is a new carbon tax would be a big burden, but I think it would be a big burden because the current proposal is to layer it on top of the four taxes that are already burdened. Which some of which are directly related to the same purpose. For example, the barrel tax, the original purpose of the barrel tax was supposed to do environmental things and protect the environment, including climate change. So now, if you add a carbon tax on top of the barrel tax, in large part you're duplicating the tax, aren't you? Oh, yeah. So right now we have a patchwork and we need to reexamine what's a real priority and act accordingly. Yeah. Well, so is there any state in the union that has successfully enacted and implemented a barrel, rather a carbon tax? Not that I'm aware of, no. Probably for the reasons we've been talking about. And so right now in Hawaii there's a legislator who has suggested a bill who will introduce or already has introduced a carbon tax bill into the legislature for consideration in the 2019 session. Am I right? Oh, yes. It could come from a number of sources because the Hawaii Climate Change Commission had six legislators in it, but you know, Senator Carl Rhodes has gone on record already as saying that he'll introduce a carbon tax bill. There was actually one introduced last session, but it didn't make the first committee hearing. Okay, let's take a short break, Tom, and we'll come back and we'll enter into Christmas future to see what would happen, okay, if such a bill actually was enacted and signed into law by Governor E. Gay in this session. Oh, I'm not sure we want to go there, but let's take a look after this short break. Hey, loha. My name is Andrew Lanning. I'm the host of Security Matters Hawaii, airing every Wednesday here on Think Tech Hawaii live from the studios. I'll bring you guests. I'll bring you information about the things in security that matter to keeping you safe, your co-workers safe, your family safe, to keep our community safe. We want to teach you about those things in our industry that may be a little outside of your experience. So please join me because security matters, aloha. And aloha. My name is Calvin Griffin, the host of Hawaii in Uniform. And every Friday at 11 o'clock here on Think Tech Hawaii, we bring you the latest on what's happening within the military community. And we also invite all of your response to things that's happening here. For those of you who haven't seen the program before, again, we invite your participation. We're here to give information, not disinformation. And we always enjoy a response from the public. But join us here, Hawaii in Uniform, Fridays, 11 a.m. here on Think Tech Hawaii, aloha. We are so happy to be here with Tom Yamachika, the tax foundation of Hawaii, talking about the possibility of a carbon tax, which has been a discussion for a long time, but I don't think people really know how it would work. So let's assume—I'm making a lot of assumptions. You can correct my assumptions. Let's assume that this—the people concerned in the legislature with climate change want to enact a barrel tax, I'm sorry, a carbon tax this year. And let's assume that it passes both houses and all those committees, whatnot, and the governor signs it. What do you think it would look like, this carbon tax? Well, you know, let's kind of pause a little bit before we get all the way to the finish line. I think initially you're going to have some disagreements as to where the tax is supposed to go, because I think, you know, if you put this up for consideration, there's going to be a feeding frenzy as to who is going to get the revenue from it, okay? What are the possibilities? Department of Transportation, for example. They get the fuel tax now, so— And they get part of the barrel tax, too, I think. No. Oh, that's right. They wanted it in the last session, but they never got it. Yeah. So the Department of Transportation is going to say, well, hey, this is about where we're going to tear on the roads, and, you know, we want part of the revenue. And you have the farmers. Farmers are going to consider that they're exempt from the fuel tax now, because they're not doing work that impacts the highways. And so they say, well, why should this fall on us? And, you know, the other side of the story is, well, you're running machinery. The machinery emits CO2 into the atmosphere, so you're just as liable or you're just as responsible as that person who just drove down the car in a semi, okay? Will they like that answer? Probably not. Then they're the counties. Okay. So if you're going to load up on fossil fuels, the counties right now have a piece of the action as they get to apply a liquid fuel tax. So how are they going to fare? Are they going to get a piece of this? Is the county highway fund going to get a piece of this? Is anything in the county going to get a piece of this? And then there are the people who are concerned about the environment. The Department of Land and Natural Resources, they get a piece of what comes out of the barrel tax, right? So they are going to be right up there and they're going to be saying, well, you know, this is all about damage to the environment and we fix it. We are out there planting trees and all that kind of stuff to deal with the effects of carbon pollution. The same way the barrel tax is supposed to deal with the environment and with making things green, although that hasn't really happened. And half the barrel tax goes into the general fund. Right, which is not what was intended at all. So you have the possibility of a hijack on any of these taxes, hijack into the general fund. Or other places, you know. Okay, so that's, so the big question is where does the tax money go? Who gets it, I suppose, what is it used for? So somebody is going to have to make a statement of that and I think everybody will be referring back to the barrel taxes. You know, it's like I went to law school, I had a professor in criminal law as it were. He said, when the legislature passes a statute, it should say at the bottom, this one we really mean. Okay? And he said, and if they care a lot, they should say this one we really, really mean. So you know, if you want to avoid the kind of fragmented result that the barrel taxes had where nobody really, you know, the original purpose of the tax has gone in ten directions. We should have some statement at the bottom of the carbon tax bill that says we really mean it. And this is where we want it to go and don't change it, speaking to future sessions and future legislators. Yeah, which, which, which will never happen? Never happen because they reserve the right to change anything about anything. So yeah, that's part of being, that's part of being a legislator. I guess so. Anyway, so all right, so that's, that's one thing, but you know, we have to put this in perspective, the barrel tax, I'm sorry, correct me, hit me, the carbon tax is intended to discourage the use of carbon. It's intended to get on board with, with global climate change and COP 24 or whatever COP you're talking about. It's intended to, to be a leader, a leadership point for Hawaii to say to the world, yes, we can, we can have a carbon tax, then we can discourage the, the use of carbon and emissions from carbon. Isn't that what really counts here? Will that work or are we just, you know, blowing in the wind, literally?   How are you going to help them do that if, if you're going to, you know, really lay into their, you know, what is it, what is a necessity for them in terms of how they make their livelihood? Well, that's the same thing as in France, you know, they're not going to be concerned about the ultimate success of the world, the survival of the, of the human race. They're going to be concerned about getting to work tomorrow. They're going to be concerned about their own personal family finances. And so, and that's, and that's enough for them to torch the police. Yeah, I mean, we can have a real public outcry against such attacks, don't you think? Yeah. And, and so, and so that really, I think comes back to, well, you know, who's the government supposed to serve, right? They're supposed to serve the people. The, the legislators are there to kind of have, you know, both the short term and long term interests of the people at heart. And so they really have to figure out a way to sell this. Yeah. Well, I mean, the purpose, looking at it from the 50,000 foot level, where all that stuff gathers, look at it from the 50,000 foot level. And the purpose of this tax, really, I mean, putting raising revenue aside, you know, the legislature always wants to raise revenue somehow and not be seen as raising revenue. It's really for the benefit of the world in general. It's to save the world.  But isn't that, Tom, isn't that really within the purview of the federal government? If there is going to be a carbon tax, shouldn't, shouldn't that be at the federal level, why should one little state in the middle of the Pacific, you know, that, that has clean air and all that? Why should we care about, you know, the future of the world? It's because, because we have to lead the world. I mean, that's what that's what the proponents are going to say. So it's a leadership thing. But yeah, like we led the, we led the nation and prepaid health care. Why can't we lead the nation in this too? It is this environment. That's an expensive price to pay to be able to say to yourself, I'm leading the nation now, the world. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And people may not be willing to pay that price. They may say, I don't care. If, if the federal government doesn't want to do it, why should I want to do it?  If we, if we we got to start somewhere. OK, we got to start somewhere. I love when I get you to make these arguments. OK, so we do this. We set a price on it. And the price is intended not so much to raise revenue, but to discourage people from using carbon products, emitting carbon. OK, and that would help in reaching 100 percent by 2045. It would help to move to electric vehicles, probably on the highways. It would help. Well, I mean, you know, electric vehicles, let's let's kind of not go there just yet, because electric vehicles just take the electricity that's produced by somebody else. Of course. OK. And and the the electric companies, it depends on how they generate the electricity. Yeah, right now the right now the Burden-Munger fuel, right, which is which is a fossil fuel, as you as you are well aware. Yeah, and probably has more hydrocarbons, you know, per per cubic inch than than even regular fuel. I mean, a regular. So it's a mixed bag. You say we're going to impose a carbon tax on gasoline, or we're going to in order to incentivize electric vehicles when the electric vehicles are running on another kind of fossil fuel. That may change in the future, but for now it's it's hard to make that case. So, I mean, my my Gadfly question I posed to you earlier still stands exactly why would we want to do this? I mean, if the if the legislature wants to raise revenue, why doesn't it just increase the income tax? That's less regressive, isn't it? It seems more fair to a state where you have and that's that's one of the that's one of the biggest problems of a carbon tax is regressive. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's not going to hit, you know, the wealthy harder than the the middle class. So it'll be the lower middle class will be the other way around. Yeah. OK. So here we have this drawing a geographical map. I don't know if this is happening in Europe. Obviously, it's not happening in France right now. And there are other countries that have adopted. There are. OK. Well, good for them, points for them. You know the countries? I think Japan is one. There are some other European countries that have. I think just just a handful. So anyway, so we don't have any state in the in the mainland that is doing this. We have the possibility it'll happen here, but I think there'll be plenty of pushback on it just on an economic and tax policy basis. And why me? Why do I care? Kind of basis. We have the federal government under Trump. It's not going to enact a carbon tax. Republicans are am I right? They're not going to do that. Maybe the next administration, but not it's not this one. Not going to happen. I mean, we pulled out of cop anyway. So gee whiz, this isn't moving at the speed we'd like to see.  That's always a possibility.  A tax bill never gets repealed. Yeah, I mean, that's what happened to the barrel taxes started off at five cents per barrel, which was, you know, enough to get its initial job done. But but not not big enough to be a problem. Then it came to a dollar five, which is, you know, twenty one times what it used to be. And most of that was, like I said, for general revenue raising. So is that what's going to happen with this? We don't know. We'll have to see. No. But what do you think? Can you want to make a projection for me on how you think this is going to go? Will it get passed at all? If it is passed, what will the amount be?  And what will the people say about it? I think there's going to be a lot of debate. I think people first have to understand what it is and how it'll affect them. And I think once they do, they'll stop pushing back. Because we we have a lot of taxes already that we pay in in paradise. Yeah, we're one of the highest tax rates in the country far as state income tax is concerned. Yeah. And then also overall burden is, you know, we're not too shabby either. Yeah. Right. And our gross exercise taxes gross, actually. Yes. Exactly. So at the same time, with all of that, we don't have enough money to pave the roads to, you know, handle the homeless to make payments to the state employee's retirement system. We're having to do the regular business in a state or a city. So I'm not sure people keep up our educational facilities. Yeah. It's going to be an exciting session, isn't it? I'm sure it will. Would you come and talk to us about it? Of course. Thank you, Tom Yamachika, President of the Tax Foundation of Hawaii, watching out for us. Thanks so much.


Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering Microsoft Ignite, brought to you by Cohesity and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite here at the Orange County Civic Center in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Stu Miniman. We're joined by Brian Cox. He is the Director of Product Marketing at Nutanix. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Well, thanks for having me, Rebecca and Stu. It's good to see you again, so.  I've been here before, and it's a great experience. Great, great. Well, before the cameras were rolling, we were talking about how Nutanix really pioneered hyper-converged infrastructure. Right. But the vision is bigger. Nutanix is about more than hyper-converged. Well, and yeah, and we're very actually glad to see here at Microsoft Ignite that Microsoft and the next version of Windows is touting the whole hyper-converged concept. So we are seeing validation from one of the most established computing companies in the world. The thing is that when Nutanix got started, we didn't even know what to call it. We never used the term hyper-converged infrastructure. It was one of your colleagues in the analyst community that coined that term. We were really thinking of something, I think, bigger and beyond, which is how can we simplify IT? Because at the end of the day, all the business cares about are the services that IT delivers. Those get delivered through applications. Everything below that, frankly, the business doesn't care. Right? If you're a donut company, you want to make donuts. If you're a shipping company, you want to have trucks and all that, logistics to be optimal. IT and finance and marketing and HR, they're all just means to an end. And so when we looked at this, we said, what can we do to just deliver those services and apps and simplify everything else? Anything that we can do to save time, that we can save money, we get to return that back to the business to help be a better trucking company or a better donut company. Right? So with that in mind, we said we need to simplify. Brian, a great point. I mean, your background, my background, we're on the infrastructure side of things. I got reminded many times in my career, look, the whole goal of infrastructure is to make those apps run. You know, it's my data and my applications. Those are the important things of the business.  It's not completely commoditized. There's differentiation. So maybe help explain a little bit, you know, Nutanix in the Microsoft ecosystem and how that fits in the overall view of, you know, Nutanix's value in the marketplace. Sure. So with the larger vision that Nutanix had, which is let's simplify everything below the app layer, we did start at one place, which is just to fundamentally clean up and simplify the physical infrastructure. So you have, you know, storage arrays over here, servers over here, a sand fabric in between, virtualization layered on top of that, all coming from different vendors, not necessarily all tested together. I know because I used to work at these vendors. Right? All different management consoles. It's really hard to become a mastermind of all of that, to have it optimized and not to have points of failure. So we said the first thing we need to do is eliminate that complexity. And so we brought that down into like a single building block appliance, which ultimately got termed hyper-converged infrastructure. But that wasn't our destination, right? But that was just, we needed common building blocks like Lego pieces, right? That can snap together without any fuss and allow the companies to build that up. Then from there, we can then raise the level of simplification all the way between the physical infrastructure to the app. So one of the things though, we get an immediate benefit from when we consolidate storage and servers, the virtualization is that we improve performance for things like Microsoft SQL or Exchange. So no longer do you have that long hop from the compute with the servers all the way out to the external storage arrays. It all collapses, performance gets better, we eliminate points of failure. And in fact, even when you have multiple of these Lego blocks, this cluster, we try to always associate the data and the compute onto the same node. So there's very little latency at all. So Microsoft SQL Exchange performance goes up, the uptime goes up, and then to manage it is also simpler. Right, so Microsoft business productivity apps live on the Nutanix infrastructure. They benefit immediately by going to this simpler infrastructure versus this complex distributed architecture where there's different pieces from different vendors. All right, so we hear from Microsoft and we know customers here. It's a multi-hypervisor and multi-cloud world. So how does the Microsoft pieces of that fit in with the Nutanix story? Well, we realize that customers want to have choice. So if you look at really the three pillars, they come from all of our founding is we want to be able to make it simple, we want to make it scalable, and we do want to give you choice. So when we look at that last one, we're going to give you a choice of whatever, let's say hypervisor you wish to use. It could be Hyper-V, it could be ESXi, it could be the Nutanix, AHV, it could be Zen server from Citrix. All of those are supported. We support this on multiple different hardware platforms. So you have Dell EMC, Lenovo, IBM, Fujitsu in Europe. We just added Hitachi last week as a partner. We run on Cisco, we run on HPE servers, and the list continues to grow. So whatever is your standard, we'll go ahead and work with that. We'll give you choice of different clouds as well. So the software to manage and optimize is not only just for your on-prem environment, you can use this if you're in a distributed environment, whether it's Robo or Edge sites like oil rigs and other IoT, we can give the same interface and then the same interface out to the public cloud as well. So we'll give you choice of different clouds, different platforms, different hypervisors, and then different operating systems. We support everything from a Windows server environment to Linux and even IBM's AIX. All are supported on the platform. So you get to have it fit the way you want to work versus the other way around. How closely do you work with customers in making these decisions? Because as you said, your goal is simplification, making it easy for them to choose and deploy. So how do you walk them through the process and is it ever analysis paralysis? Because there are simply so many options. Well, for some customers who are struggling with that choice, we do offer our own branded appliance. So it's very simple. You have the computing framework, the Nutanix software is there, it's one single support line to call, and that's a very simple model. Other customers though have chosen who their platform of choice is, whether that's on-prem like a physical server or it's a public cloud. That choice oftentimes has already been made, right? We're just working with that. So for those who've already have an opinion at the customer site, we'll work with that. If for some reason they don't have opinion or they want it even simpler, they can go with the Nutanix branded offering, but we'll work either way. Great. Brian, you go to a number of different shows. What are you hearing from customers? What are some of the challenges? What are they looking for? And maybe what's different about the customers you hear here at the Microsoft Show versus some of the others we might hear? Well, it depends on who you're talking to, right? So if you're talking to the C-suite at the end of the day, these are the guys, or gals, running the donut company. They're running the trucking company and they view IT just like they view HR or finance or whatever. It's like, yes, that's absolutely critical. We need that function, but the goal is to make it more efficient, more effective so I can deliver more shipments, make more donuts, right? So for the C-suite, they want to see on my capital that I'm investing, what is the return on this? And do I have to over commit capital now because I can only buy it in big chunks? So we address that by having what we call fractional consumption. Basically you're buying one Lego block at a time. So you're not consuming capital that could elsewhere be used in the business. So the C-suite, they have a different, one set of needs. Then you look at the Sysadmins and they are overwhelmed. With all this complexity of infrastructure, it burns all their time. They're spending all their nights, all their weekends. They're not very happy. They make mistakes. If we can give them back hours in their day, they're going to be more productive. They can actually do higher level tasks. And then even for the folks on the dev team, if we can simplify the infrastructure and spin up new instances, whether it's containers or VMs, and they can even do it through cell service, that makes them more productive. So we try to address the needs of all those audiences. And those, the customers you're referring to, they are different groups of customers, but they're all ostensibly the same company. So are they talking to each other? I mean, are the tech people talking to the business people in terms of what are overarching goals here? Yeah, they do talk to each other. And granted, probably the audience we talk with most frequently are the Sysadmins, because we're very operationally tied. They will then, and we'll arm them with arguments, they then talk to the C-suite.  When you go talk to the dev team, here's the things that you need to share with them. So, you know, we do arm the Sysadmins, but we have a growing presence at the C-suite, for example, and we've also started attending a number of developer conferences, saying, hey, this actually makes sense to you to get your job done. It's not just the Sysadmins, it's you as a developer, it's you as a leader of the company. This is transforming the power of IT to help fulfill the organization's mission. I'm curious about your perceptions of Microsoft. Right now, we have Satya Nadella who really portrays this company as a company that is open, inclusive, with a growth mindset.  I mean, is that your, do you feel that as someone who works closely with Microsoft, it rubs up against its colleagues and products? I think it's an embrace, like what Nutanix had in regards to, the reality is customers want choice and it's not one size fits all, not one cookie cutter approach. So Satya is saying, hey, what can we do to integrate with Linux? Never would heard under maybe the previous regimes, right? What can you do to work more closely in the app and development environments that the app developers want to work in? So there's a lot of affinity I think between Nutanix and where Satya is going and then providing that choice, providing best in class wherever you can and then let the customer choose but provide them the pros and cons so they make an informed decision. Brian, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It was a pleasure having you. Well, thank you, Rebecca. Thank you, Stu. It's always great to be here. We will have more from the CUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite coming up in just a little bit.


Okay. All right. So welcome to the last session of our open source design dev room. And as you might have heard already throughout the day or downstairs at our booth, we have this open source design job board. So you can post a job if you have an open source project and you need a logo or a flyer or anything designed also like whatever hardware design for your open hardware project you can post the job there. And it will get you to this simple form where you put the details in, how to contact you, what's the project about. And the idea of this session is to make that in person. So you get three minutes to present your project, one minute to, or I mean, whatever, however you want to use them. But the idea is one minute, quickly describe your project. One minute, quickly say where you need design help specifically and one minute how to contact you or anything else that people want to know or something. It will be timed so that we don't go over the limit unnecessarily. In general, how many people are interested in pitching their project? Okay, cool. So we have a reasonable amount of people and maybe some of you who are not quite sure yet, you can just come and also present your project. It's no big deal, don't worry, and maybe you'll get a designer out of it. So the only thing that the only requirement or whatever is that afterwards, after you presented it here, we would love you to post the job actually also on the website. So that people, not necessarily if you find someone here, you can also just post it there and then you might find someone through there. So great, so let's actually start. And the idea is because we don't want to disconnect and connect the laptop all the time, you just show the project website. And we just do it via that, okay? So do we just want to start with you because you already basically preloaded this thing and I'm gonna get the timer ready. Okay, so say start whenever you want to start. Sure. Okay, do you have a microphone? Okay, perfect. Yeah, all right. Hello. Hey guys, my name is Ryan Sypes. I'm community manager for Thunderbird. This is Phil, he's Philip. He's the chair of the council. And I'm sure a lot of you probably have heard of Thunderbird before. We're the email client that is hashtag freeing the inbox. And we used to be a part of Mozilla and now we're run completely by the community. And we have a really big project that has a look that's kind of a legacy of a time pass.  And then hopefully some of you will come and contribute to the project. Because the best way to tell a designer that you can kind of help on something is to show how horrible it might be. So this is what you see when you start up Thunderbird. You've got, we recently moved to like square tabs to kind of follow along with what Firefox is doing with Photon. And as you can see there's a calendar on the right hand side. But right now it just says, when you start up, do you want to set up an account? And it gives you the options for the different account types that you can set up. This is the email screen of Thunderbird. And this is where you would view your email. The bottom part is the preview. Although it's not really showing much of anything here. This is where you could see a message. See the content of the email that you're looking at. This is just a draft message that Philip, the screen shot it here. This is the calendar. It's pretty basic calendar up there. Up at the top there you see it lists out the events in a list view and then lays them out on this. This is the monthly view of the calendar. We also have day, week, etc. Here's tasks. You don't have a lot of time to talk about this, but it's pretty straightforward. You click the task when you're done with it. You can add tasks at the bottom. And then we also have chat functionality. It does IRC matrix and Twitter. And I don't know what else you can add there. And then this is a theme that the company Monorail did for us. It's imagining of what Firefox could look like. We've tried to move there as quickly as we can, but of course it's a community effort. And you can get involved by, well, there's our Twitter handle. And I'm gonna leave some cards. So if you're interested in contributing, I'd love to help you get involved and provide you with whatever you need to do that. So I'm gonna leave my cards up here. Okay, I've got two seconds left. I've put them on Thunderbird. Okay, so I think on Thunderbird, the great thing is that it's a project that reaches over 25 million users. And it gives you good opportunity to show your work to the world. Thank you so much. Yeah, so also please post it on the job board. And yeah, it's great to have you in the community. And please also join our forum. And yeah, cool. So who wants to go next? You can just click it to your- Yeah, open the project website and then- I would just, you can post me it, and, no, I'll be, and I will just signal. We'll just signal two minutes and one minute, okay? Okay. Okay, go. So, Kilwix is the name of the project. I'm a developer that kind of contributes. And it's founded by a French guy who now lives in Switzerland. There are contributors from the US and the UK and France and Germany, wherever. The general premise is take Wikipedia with you. So in remote parts of Africa, for example, they don't have a very good internet connection. Browsing Wikipedia in whatever language is difficult. So, Kilwix as an app, there's an Android app, an iOS app, native apps, and a web viewer. The Android app is used by about 50,000 users monthly. And then there are lots of other sub kind of content specific apps as well. It's not just Wikipedia. The app lets you view physics simulations and stack exchange posts and YouTube and Khan Academy. There are lots of different bits of content in there. The app currently has no, or the project in general currently has very few designers involved. In fact, zero designers to my knowledge. So it's kind of been all the UIs are built by developers. The native apps are currently about to start being rewritten. So there's a good chance to come in for a green field project, a new project. But also the Android projects, there are lots of easy pickings for someone who knows what they're doing to come in and really take ownership of the design of these different apps. So there's a bit of everything, bit of Android design, bit of iOS design, bit of web design and a bit of native app design. There's also designing the content because stuff that's not Wikipedia specific can also be kind of munged, designed into a nice easy to browse content. So there's kind of a lot of scope for design. If you want to try one thing and then move on to something else, that's fine within the project. So, mostly Wikipedia is used in places with very poor internet connection. I personally have been involved in sending gigabytes and gigabytes, many, many hundreds of SD cards to places like rural Africa and India and various places that is basically hard to get an internet connection. So, if you want to be involved in that, you can contact me or go to Kiwix.org and you can find us all on GitHub. But I'll be around afterwards, so you can come find me. Thank you. Okay, who's next? Okay, so I didn't plan to pitch here and I'm very tired, so it could be messy. So, Arbor is a social file sharing application that I want to make to help people exchange files, typically. Hurry the pictures with your family, friends, or whatever. So, the goal is to get real kind of Facebook, Google, Drive, Dropbox and all of that. So, yeah, to have an alternative to that. So, yeah, but the thing is, I'm only one person on this project and I would be very happy to have a designer to help me. So, it's kind of working already, so and it's not really terrible, but, yeah, there's still a lot of things that need to be designed and to be improved. So, yeah, so if you want to contact me, you can reach me on GitHub or the, so to go to the GitHub page, you just write A-B-O. It's the name of the project, then you end up on the GitHub page. I'm designing the website right now, but it's not done, so it would be there sometimes. Thank you, shorter presentation, they'll always also encourage, so. You next? Just take it in your hand also. Okay, Seamly is the rebranded name of the Valentina project and we're developing a pattern share for fashion sewing patterns because we're trying to remove the barriers to entry into this unnecessarily secretive and proprietary industry. It's the second biggest industry on the planet. So, there are a lot of people who are interested in this, but not that many people who are designers and not that many developers yet, but we do have a lot of interest. So, I'm here at FOSDA, I'm trying to gain additional contributors. This particular pattern share is obviously beta. No designers were involved with this, but the person who developed this is the database developer. So, what we want to do is the idea was to have something that was similar to the music players that Nate Willis talked about earlier today. And when he mentioned that it's actually a music player, I went, that's right, it really clicks. So, I'm looking for a designer who can help us implement that workflow where a person, a designer, will use our desktop app and upload it to the cloud with all the meta files required, the tech pack, the images, the tags, and then easily scroll through the images and search data to find what they need. So, if you have any interest in working on this project, please let me know. I think you can contact, it's not here, but you can contact us at hello at Seamly.net. We actually have time for a question, so, yeah, go ahead.  My background, I sewed on my clothes to high school. I'm not trained in fashion design. My background is network security. I was manager for NASA's budget and time network for years. When I retired, I had children to raise, my husband and I had blended families. Anyway, I chose this to keep my brain together, to keep my hand in some sort of time. It just grew, we have several thousand beta users around the world and we're translated into over 30 languages and it seems like it's going to really take off. We've gotten lots of interest, so we just need designers to work really great and the workflow smooth. Okay, that was nice, yep. And remember everyone, put it on open source, design.net slash jobs, just a minute there. Smaller. Hi, I'm Bob, this is Gasodoto. I had a lighted talk yesterday, so you can find probably a record on the Fausten website about the detail of the application. But this is just an accounting application for ethical purchasing group or to ease the local economy to purchase goods from a local producer and sustain local economy in different places. It is a purchasing model quite popular in Italy. I'm trying to spread it in other countries. This is a website, you can find here a demo. The application has been rewrote in the last two years. And the whole graphic is just plain bootstrap and I'm absolutely bad at choosing colors. The logo is quite ugly. So if you want to participate, you can get a look to the demo, just to get an idea of the application. In particular here, it is missing a local selector here. So the full language is Italian. You can find a translation in English and German in the configuration. And you can find me, Opla. Here, of course, you can find the contents in the gas.dot.net. Or you can find it on GitHub, and that's all. Thank you. In the back, no? So you can, yeah, if you need designers, you can put your project. If it's a little bit. One nice designer will do it, but. Also, yeah, also if you just need one designer, yeah? And this will show you why. Here, do you have the mic? Yeah. I was thinking of you, if you had two minutes. Yeah, okay. I'm not sure if any one of you is familiar with skydiving, parachuting. I am, I jumped out of an airplane about 300 times. The problem in skydiving the last 20 years is that parachutes are getting smaller, and skydivers are choosing smaller canopies, and landing very fast. That is dangerous, that kills people. So the parachute is okay, the material is fine, and then the pilot makes a mistake and kills himself because the canopy is too small. So in the Netherlands, there are now rules. What kind of experience you need to jump with a specific canopy, specific parachute? And those rules are rather complicated. So I built this website over two years ago, where you can select your experience level. And let's say I'm a beginner. That sets the total number of jumps to five. Jumps in the last year to five. And the exit weight to 85 kilograms. And then shows here the green, the parachutes I can jump because of my experience. When I gain experience, let's say I'm an expert. Let's say I have done 1,200 jumps of its 200 in the last year. Then I can jump all these kinds of canopies. So it's a rather simple app. It's already working. I'm rebuilding it currently. This is AngularJS, and I'm rebuilding it to be in React. So there is all kinds of space to change the layout and change the system. One of the main things I would like to change is that you can app or send a specific parachute to a friend to recommend it. Currently, if you select the parachute, it's expanded here, and it's not shown in the URL. What I would like to do is have a specific page for each parachute so you can send it through to a friend. Because actually, this is also a database of all parachutes that exist in the world. You can search, for example, for this parachute, and it shows it in a pop-up. And that should be a page in the new site, I think. And there's many more things to improve, both in just the design and the interaction. So if anybody would like to have a simple design project, I think it's rather simple. It can be explained in these three minutes. Be my guest. My name is Robert Wettbar. If you go to this site, you can find my details. Then you have to know the site. So you have to write down this URL. It's skydive-compatros. That's the Dutch name of the regulations. And there is in the menu information with my email address. Thank you. So this is a really cool example, actually, where good design can save lives, right? Or where this app can actually save lives. So yeah. Cool. OK. Anyone else? We have how many minutes do we have left, actually? Yeah, nine minutes. So like two more, maybe three. Yeah. You don't need your laptop. We're not going to unplug anything. So just open the website of the project. Oh, it's local. Oh, we can try. We can try. If you're the only person who wants to. Or do you also want to pitch? OK, then you come first before we unplug and then. I didn't prepare anything. No worries. I think no one did, so. And I have to. I have a very unsexy project, actually. It's about the mic. Sorry. Yeah, just take both. And I will signal you a few minutes. OK, I have a very unsexy project. It's an identity and access management project. And people usually hate to use it and hate to maintain data they're in. And so there might be some chance to make some people's life a little bit nicer. And OK, it's starting even from the web page. You can see it's really bad design and I'm bad at choosing colors. But you can also look into an online demo. Oh, OK, no, a bit into that interface. And you see it's looking like the 90s. But you can here click into the live demo server. You can even screw it up completely, no problem. I will restore it. So yeah, I need help because people find this ugly and they're right. But it's plain HTML because it's supposed to still work with console browsers. So I would need some help, especially for the cascaded style sheets. So that's it. Thank you. Oh, OK. At the website, I mean. So they do it all at the same time? Yeah, yeah. Oh, how? Yeah, there. So it's ie-deer.com. OK, thank you. Thank you. OK, so yeah, you were the last one or? I mean, maybe we have time for two. Do you also want to talk online with the? Oh, OK, OK. So that's the last project. We'll try to unplug this. Do you have a mini display for it or? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Do you want to mirror it or something? The display settings? Well, I think you need to mirror it because it's a separate good of the display setting. OK, good for you. And the signer and thing just for display. You just want to mirror it. Perfect. Yeah, thank you. And then this. OK. Hello, guys. We are freestyling, like some of you. We just want to say thank you for the open design because I was here first time last year and this was actually the class that made me feel home. And it's nice to return back here. This is Eric. We are students at Swedish IT school. We're studying application development for iOS and Android. We were sitting in the classroom after the class hours and just playing together and doing some homeworks. And we thought that why can't this school have an open source community? Because we thought that it can be quite hard to get into open sourcing. Just we are GitHub that is so big and scary. So we wanted to have it local. What we are actually now doing with the small first version of the web page, it can be found on can I get it to fit the screen anyway? The resolution is the screen presenter resolution. OK. What do you command line it? The project is actually up the first version of it on Coffee Break with the name Coffee Break on my account. And actually, we're going to present this to the school next week. And what we like to do is to make the project. Now at the moment, it looks like our school. But we want to look more friendly. So it's easier to get involved and not to look like material design, more friendly. And we will put price also to the logo and the color scheme. So of course, the hardest parts, logo, colors, and hero banner, we are ready to pay for also a bit for it. But what we also offer is to jump on to similar projects because we think that we should take these open source projects. If you have a job place where you want to create some kind of open source things or a school, and let us together have more ideas what these kind of platforms should have to get the open source ideas and movement going. Oh, yeah. What are the contacts? Let me just write it here. Or on the GitHub, maybe. I mean, is your email there? In your GitHub profile? Good question. There is a page you can find my email. I'm going to see coolsport.sv. OK, thank you guys. Cool. So that was it, basically, for our open source design dev room this year. I want to help you. Yeah, if you want to help clean, much appreciate it. I'll just take away if you see some trash out. Yeah, take some trash out and stuff. And if you want some stickers, we actually ran out of stickers here. But maybe there's some down at the booth. And yeah, and I would like to give a special thanks to Victoria, who organized the room this year. So see you next year, or at a different open source conference near you, I guess. Thank you guys. Thank you.


Yesterday I asked you what challenges should I do for UCN 50-20. Here are your terrible answers. Let me rephrase that. Here was one terrible answer because this was just...   Ultimate Custom Night. But every frame Nightmarion is in, I have to cut it out. This can be so many times where I'm talking deep strats for 50-20 and it's just going to be cut out because of Nightmarion because they appear so often. But of course I had to do this because it was sent in by DadBabyGamer which I'm not trying to spread any rumors but might be giving me an early copy of UNN 2 pretty soon so stay on the lookout for that. So I had to do this. I'm pretty sure that she just said Ultimate Custom Night but I was like screw it, we're doing 50-20 because that's going to be the most funny, that great English.  So this is going to be an interesting video because every frame that Nightmarion is in, I have to cut out those frames. Can I click that? Thank you. So like right there, cut them out. Okay, I'm... Okay, I've got the coins. I couldn't see if they were there or not, but whatever. Shoot, shoot, shoot. Actually wait, let's do this. Go in. There was so much going on, I had to get the guitar, I had to reset the vents, I had to skip the add-out, I had to do everything, it was just way too much. Anyways, so yeah. That's a good taste of what this video is going to be. I don't know how long I'm going to record, last time I recorded for 30 minutes, about 32. So yeah. Oh, a little bit, got to make it a nice decent video. Past 10, there it goes, left. Not lefty, Jesus. That was helpy, helpy. I think the best part about 20 is that... Well that was an entire jump scare by Nightmarion. But of course you're not going to see it. Because of the strange rules of this video.  Yeah, the best part about 50-20 is that it's so chaotic that you kind of have to leave in the entire run. Oh, I saw him too, I saw him.  God damn it, I saw him too. Yeah, you kind of have to leave in the entire run. But when I did the FNAF 1 video, where every time I die the video ended, I just kind of skipped around a bit. Oh, I saw him too!  I just want to go fast. Yeah, I had to cut up the video because it just took so long. I recorded for over an hour that time. And I wasn't just going to upload an hour video of FNAF 1. Just paying extra close attention to... Nightmare BB. I'll see you. Get you. 10 coins. You can predict the thing. We're going right after that. I think I'm going to mess up a bit.  Oh, I'm in the canvas! I... I didn't... I missed the death coin. I don't know what stopped me from pressing the death coin. It might have been an ad, might have been below, I don't know. Someone was there that just didn't let me... Make sure you hit it this time. I didn't get killed by Nightmare on...  Also, Beb said the menu doesn't count so I can talk in the menu, which is good.  I had that run perfectly as well. I don't... Music box guy. You're never going to see my death because I'm just going to get killed by Nightmare on... a ton of times. That's the thing about 50-20. I was saying this but of course Nightmare on was on screen so it got cut out. Ah! I don't miss this. There we go. I got it done before they were here. I don't miss this one bit. This is good actually, so... I have time to do this. Do this. You never get killed by Cheek, that's the thing. Because the music box always has the 15 second intervals for the puppet and the power gen. I feel like I almost never get killed by Cheek. Two coins. Look at that. You didn't even see the ad. That's how quick I am. I'm not expecting him to appear. Oh, jeez. I got to go back. See you. Hello. Hello, hello, hello. Hello. Yay! We made it out, guys. We made it out alive. Wait, is Foxy still on the table? Let's go. I... What? Why couldn't I press it? I was on it. I was right on it. That was such an animat... An animatopower. I don't know why I wouldn't let me press it. I was right there pressing it. That's dumb. Sorry I may be on there. Hello. Also, FNAF AR update tonight? Double upload today? Ooh. Just cutting it closer to that music box. Someone's texting me. Yes. I have enough money for the goddamn character tonight. For FNAF AR. That's good, that's good. Make sure. Because I only have like three dollars on my account. They're gonna be spawning real effin' late. God, you... That's the thing I hate about XOR is that she's not consistent. Thing is about this time... Still no powers. This video, you actually... You should be able to understand me. Should be able to. I had it on, though. I had it on. Still no power-ups, of course. Of course, no power-ups. When are we gonna get a... UCN Esport? Like, you gotta be pretty quick... This game. See ya. Yes. Yes, I'm fine with that, I'm fine with that. That's fine, that's perfectly fine. Wait? Okay, good. Uh... Oh, it's very pretty.  That's when you get these no power-ups! I gotta clean up my room for this video. It's a goddamn mess.  You get really good at that. Spawning Mr. Hugs. Which is what I do. I don't know if I should be proud or what I've played UCN. I think I'm actually... I don't like Foxy being on the desk. Okay, that's not gonna matter, because he's still fuckin' there. And none of this is gonna matter, because I'm gonna run out of time to get plus... Yup, and... Fun time Foxy. I'm sorry, you know you're not no power-ups. Let's charge her up. Okay, son of a gun. I think that's it. I think that's a good place to end. We made it to nearly two. I think our best was three. 325, 330 around there. That's pretty good. Overall, this challenge wasn't bad. It's really just normally playing 50-20. And then again, I guess the other one was two, but... Whatever, this was fun. I've been getting a lot of challenges. UCN and otherwise, so probably gonna be doing a bit more of these in the future. I do have fun. Gives us a reason to return back to the classics. I said this last time, but I don't know if anyone understood me, but UCN is one of my top three favorite FNAF games, so I always love coming back to it. Even if it is very torturous, but hey, you know, we get the job done. No, we don't. We got to like three. That's not getting the job done. That is doing half of the job. Anyways, thanks for watching. I'll see you all on the flip side. Goodbye.


I just had a cursory look at some of John Houghton's poems and the poem that you translated as her anger, begrudging, sort of, you know, unhappiness towards her beloved that he does not acknowledge this bond that they have. And it really, it reminded me immediately of Sadie's poem that starts with manna don estama zaval ke to bimeh robafoi ah no vastan a zon beheh ke bebandi unafoi. And I find it just as hot-wrenching perhaps from him. And there are a lot of her, there is always a wink and a nod as you say to the predecessors, the anxiety of influence to borrow a phrase. But there is a lot of half-hears. And I also want to, towards the end, when you mentioned about the ambiguity of gender, if we believe that Masa, Tia and Ganga, these poems are her own, then there is a lot of gender-specific sort of, you know, the anatomy makes it clear. But anyways, enough of me. I'll have another thing, but I'll bring it to the modern period. I shouldn't, sir. I'll respond very briefly. I would, my response, of course I agree, I agree with what Narges has just said. I should have said, as you can tell, I did this talk from notes. Johan Khartun has been in my head so much recently because I've just published some translations of her that I thought I am not gonna write out another lecture on Johan Khartun. She's in my head, I'm gonna do it from notes. I should have mentioned this. Johan Khartun, I said that she echoes half-hears, which she does, she also echoes haju a couple of times. But she actually says, she says in one of her poems that her model is sadi. And she echoes sadi more than anybody else. And in fact, if we can, although she echoes half-hears and haju, but half-hears more than haju, although she echoes them, her writing is very different from theirs. Khartun, let's stick with half-hears. Half-hears is writing is famously dense. It's every rift loaded with oars, Keith says. There's, every phrase can be parsed in different ways. Half-hears is always trying to say two or three things at the same time, or saying two or three things at the same time. Johan Khartun says one thing at a time. Her poetry is very clear. It's very elegant. It tries for a kind of elegant simplicity. It tries for, in fact, what sadi was famous for, which was Sakle Montana, this difficult simplicity, this simplicity which is almost impossible, which seems so easy, but it's almost impossible to imitate. And in fact, in her best poems, in her most beautiful poems, she achieves this, I think. She has this simplicity which seems astonishing, because it's so clear. It's so simple. It's like that sadi poem, and yet you try and do it, mate. It's really, really hard to do. Sure, absolutely. And we should perhaps mention that the translations that you were reading were from your latest book, which I definitely recommend. Faces of Beloved? It's called Faces of Love. This is the Penguin Edition, which I think is not out in England yet. It's out in the States. The Hardback Edition is out in England, but it's terribly expensive. This will be out in England in February, so I would hang on to it. Oh, wait. Faces of Love. It's Hafez. They're translations of Hafez. It's about 70 Khazals by Hafez, and a few Rabayat. Obaid Jahan, about 60 poems by Jahan, and Obaid, including some of his most scabrous, obscene poems, and including also Cat and Mouse, which is this satire about the takeover of Shiraz by Mubarez al-Din, which is a very funny poem. It's the most famous pre-modern Persian political satire. So that's in there, too. So it's mainly Hafez, some Jahan Khatun, and a kind of sprinkling of Obaid at the end. Of course, Qabus Nomeh has a good recipe for good health on which season you should sleep with what sex, and that would be conducive to...  That's right. If you don't want to get high blood pressure. Yeah, that's it. Anyway, a question, Anthony, please. I took back... I'm just going to throw it at the back. Nick, that was just the perfect lecture that makes one just want to go and read these poems over and over again. Good. But, which I've been reading the poems, that's really brings it to my question. Can you tell us something about the circumstances, the social circumstances, in which Jahan Khatun's poems were read? Did people just read them privately? I mean, the poem of Hafez, you can sit around, you have a dore, a mushari, gentlemen can sit around it. But her poems, I suspect, could not be read by gentlemen, as it were. So how were they read? Well, the short answer, Anthony, is that we don't know, but we can speculate. We do know that women had relative freedom at the Inju court. It seems to me that somebody who was... I mean, Jahan Khatun's divan is very large. She obviously spent a long time writing poetry and from the evidence of her preface, it was something that was very important to her. She really thought of it as what she would leave to the world and that the world she hoped would remember her because she'd written these poems.  If a woman had access to her uncle's court and it was so important in her life, I can't imagine that she would stay away when Hafez was at the court, for example. And I feel certain that she would appear when Hafez was there. Perhaps they even spoke to each other. That wouldn't be impossible in that court. It probably would be in later other courts. There is actually a novel by Pesach Sardin which he imagines them having a love affair. This certainly did not happen, but anyway. It's a charming novel, though. It is also a novel by a German novelist who does the same thing. I've forgotten her name, which I haven't read. We don't know what the situation was. What we can say is that she became quite famous in her own time as a poet, which meant that her poems were read beyond the immediate confines of the court. For a couple of hundred years after her death, she gets mentioned in biographical notices. You know, this Tazkirat tradition of writing books which are collections of biographies of poets with the odd quotation. She's mentioned in those Tazkirat for two or 300 years after her death. So obviously her poems did have some fame which meant that they traveled beyond the court. There is also a tradition, though, it doesn't appear until 200 years after her death. So it might be an invention. But there was a tradition that she had a kind of salon in which she invited poets to compete and she was the kind of presiding judge at these poetic gatherings. Of course, those poetic gatherings were very common in the Middle Ages and they still are in Iran. They always have been. But of course, the distinctive thing is here that they were presided over by a woman. But this tradition does exist that she had such a salon in which poets came and read their poems to each other and she was the kind of person who gave the prize, as it were. And she read her own poems. So certainly her poems were read within the court. Her poems were known within the court. The two poems that are about her, whether they're by obeyed or not, they obviously show that they weren't just read by women because these poems are certainly by a man, probably by obeyed. And so her poems got beyond the immediate circle of the kind of women of the court. She seems to have hoped for fame. There are four manuscripts of her poems. Two of them seem to have been written almost at the same time. They're in the same hand. And presumably towards the end of her life. And it's assumed that or it's guessed that she supervised this, that she wanted her poems to go out into the world. It was less anomalous for a woman at the Inju court to do this kind of thing that it would have been at most courts at that time. She's very lucky in that way that she was a princess at such a court. But it was still anomalous. So I think her poems rather, probably had a kind of over to the edge of poetic activity existence, but they were known about by people who cared about poetry. And the evidence for this is that she gets mentioned in these biographies of poets later on. Good night. Stephen Shepard and then Dr. Gulshoy. Your first statement, please. Just wanted to know, to what extent does religion or mysticism play any role in Jehan Khatun's poetry? That's a very interesting question. It's especially interesting because of, she was clearly, she clearly knew Hafez. She quotes Hafez. And of course the question of mysticism, are Hafez's poems mystical or not? Some are clearly mystical. Some are clearly not mystical. And then there's an awful lot of poems which seem to be both secular and mystical. Hafez, and as I said, Hafez often seems to be trying to say at least two things at once. And sometimes it's a mystical statement and sometimes it's a secular statement in the same poem as it were. You can have poems which can be read in either way. That Hafez is famous for this. There are many poems like that. There are virtually no poems by Jehan Khatun in this way. To my knowledge, she only mentions Sufism once. And I will read the poem in which she mentions it. And she mentions it flippantly. This is my translation. I swore I'd never look at him again. I'd be a Sufi, deaf to sins temptations. I saw my nature wouldn't stand for it. From now on I renounce renunciations. So that's her take on Sufism, the hell with it. On the other hand, she does have a number of poems, very despairing poems in fact, which I, one guesses, were written at the end of her life in which she says the world has treated me so badly and people have treated me so badly that I turn to God. But they're not mystical poems. They're very much poems within, they're traditional devotional poems. There's no sense of air fun in them at all. They're just traditionally religious. I turn to God and God will save me, I hope. She admonishes herself to pray. She has a number of poems in which she tells herself to pray and one presumes because those poems always have a kind of ground base of, I love the world, the world has treated me wretchedly. I turn to God, that's all I have left. But it's not in a mystical sense. It's in a strictly orthodox religious sense, as far as I can see. Yijan, see. You, in the beginning of your lecture, you mentioned that the Persian poets talk about themselves too much, brag about themselves too much. But I think when the era of the, I see there was over the 12th and 13th century, during the Gaza period, 14th century onward. Poets, they didn't brag about themselves too much. In Hafiz, for example, I found only one wazel he talked about himself too much. Manam ke shokh rey shahram, behishk waar zidan. Manam ke diden, ayarudan, bebed diden. Manam manam, in one wazel Hafiz did that. But the rest of it, he's very humble. Well, the only thing I would say, I'm glad you mentioned the Ghassideh, because in fact, one can see that this convention, it comes from the Ghassideh. The Ghassideh is a praise poem, and it ends with the name of the ruler, and praise surrounds the name of the ruler. But, and then the Ghazel, which grows out of the Ghassideh, it's kind of the lyrical introduction, as you know, to the Ghassideh, which then is an independent form by itself. It ends with the name of the poet, instead of the name of the praise person. But praise was naturally attached to that name with which a poet ended, and so praise tends to get, to be attached to the name of the poet, with which the poem ends. Hafiz, I think there are more examples than you say of Hafiz.  I mean, the fact that there is a special name for doing this in Persian indicates that it was quite common. I mean, the name is Fahr, it's Fahireh. The fact that it's called Fahr, indicates that it exists, that Persians were expected to boast. And in fact, I would say also that this exists in medieval European poetry too. Medieval, and the reason it exists is it's court poetry. The poet is asking for patronage. The poet is, he makes his money by being patronized by somebody. And he's saying to the king, look, I'm a damn good poet. And as I say, this exists in medieval court poetry in Europe as well in Christendom. Sadi is quite insistent that Sadi is a very good poet indeed. It's true that Hafiz, I will grant what you say in that Hafiz is much more, Hafiz is constantly ambiguous. And sometimes when he's boasting, he seems to be poking fun at himself. You're not sure if it's a boast or if it's a, don't be silly Hafiz. There is an ambiguity in the way Hafiz does it. But it is, it was a convention. And as I say, it's a convention that had a name. The fact that it had a name, I think indicates its existence. The point I was trying to make is that no matter how, how slightly any given poet seems to indulge in that convention, Jehan Khartoun, as far as I remember, never does. Her poems very often, she, as you will know, and as most people will hear know, all Persian poets write under a pseudonym. And Jehan wrote under the name Jehan, which means world. And she very often puts the word world in the end of her poems. And you might think, this is rather grandiose, it's rather shelling off. But in fact, it's always a world that's been destroyed or a world that's in tears or a world that's joking, that's broken. She jokes with her name, she puns on her name. And it's almost as if she's dissolving into something else at the end of the poem. She seems to be withdrawing from the poem at the end. Or even as she says her name, she puns and she's sort of not there. Jehan Khartoun is noticeably humble compared with most other poets of her period. Well, I think I'm going to stop. I'm afraid as we're coming to the end, I just wanted to say that finally, we did have Nimo Yushid, who dared to say that not all Iranians really do want all this spiritual love and immortal lover.  Well, Professor Davis, on Friday when we began introducing you, and of course you needed no introduction, you protested vehemently that you did not want to be eulogized and you did not want any praise. And all the she cast the Nazi. And I think you have proved that really that was not a justified protest. And indeed you have just wetted our appetites and we really want you to come back. In fact, we might just to continue to wish for further storms so you won't be able to fly back to Ohio. It has been a real pleasure. It's really, I certainly have lost track of time and you really made me want to go and explore so many other corners of this wealth of literature that we don't look at. And we're indebted to your writing and your beautiful delivery, which makes it so accessible while it lifts us to that elitist world where we feel we can also stop at the high table with the great and the good. Thank you very much indeed. And please do come back. And I think I can speak on behalf of every single person here that we've thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you very much.