Hello everyone you hear me Yeah, good, right. So before I start on this any other physicists in the room hands up Okay, so those people I apologize that this is incredibly Not interesting and not in-depth as you might like it any complete non physicists in the room and To you people I apologize that it might be a little bit quick and and covering a lot of stuff so I am I My name is Dan whether all I am a detective physicist at the University of Oxford. I work on some of the things you see in the picture It Modern science is done using detectors of some kind basically our only window into the world is electromagnetic radiation Even for example a LIGO detector which detects gravitational waves does it buy the weak coupling of those gravitational waves into Interferometers which are electromagnetic and so electromagnetic detectors are very important And what I want to try and illustrate to you guys is some of the basic concepts that unify all these things in the picture so the top left there we have the LST telescope which is When it's built it's currently being built will be the Most powerful digital camera in the world. I mean 3.2 giga pixels So you need a fail of hard drives for it thousand images a night produces about 20 terabytes of imaging data every night for 10 years So that's not my problem. Luckily On the bottom left there. We have the the Atlas detector at the LHC and CERN And the bottom right as well and in the which you've probably heard about if you've been to any of the talk There's a couple of talks yesterday And there's a couple of other talks about the LHC and related things I think and in the center We have the humble Sony DSLR These devices to the interested party look very different and they look very different to the outsider as well There is a middle ground that connect all these things and that is that they are basically Digital cameras for light made with silicon and that's what I'm going to talk about how those work and so basically There are a lot of steps in this process a digital camera or an imaging sensor It's something that goes from that top left box photons to the bottom left box digital images and most people are Just interested in that That that left arrow there if you're in this room, I'm going to assume you're slightly interested in the other few arrows Where we go via nearly free electrons in semiconductors and we confine those electrons and then we turn them into a voltage Right, that's basically how imaging sensors work. We turn photons into electrons. We catch the electrons We count how many electrons there are simple There's a few details and we'll try and spend the next while doing so incidentally if anybody During the while I go through this once To ask me anything like I'd like to be asked because this is intended to be introductory talk for people who are interested so Yeah, so we'll start off with the em spectrum the em spectrum is Covers radio waves visible light to x-rays. They're all photons There's wave particle duality of course so photons are waves and particles for the purposes of Sensors that work in solid state like silicon you almost always want to consider things as photons and photons are little packets of energy and Visible light photons are the ones that are striking your eye So you can see this picture at the moment typically have a couple of electron volts of energy. That's Some small number times 10 to the minus 19 joules So it's a small amount of energy per photon, but those are actually quite high energy photons compared to to radio waves The thing to remember about photons and electromagnetic spectrum is longer wave lengths means lower energy So x-rays have very short wavelengths Very high energy photons, okay And the energy of a photon in the visible corresponds to what we perceive as color so red things Have lower energy photons and blue things The underlying thing behind how all sensors work is the photoelectric effect all solid state sensors This was not discovered by Einstein in 1905. It was discovered in the the 1870s But it was explained by Einstein in 1905 in terms of what was then new thing called quantum theory And he won the Nobel Prize for that in 1921 so interestingly although Einstein came up with general relativity Most people consider that to be his greatest achievement. He also came up with a lot of interesting results in statistical thermodynamics The one he actually won the Nobel Prize for was the photoelectric effect The photoelectric effect basically is the effect where you have electrons bound around an atom So an atom has a nucleus and it has electrons in orbital states around it and If you collide a photon Into an electron with sufficient energy it can be released from that atom Okay, so that is that is basically once you understand that you understand the mechanism by how all optical sensors work we have a Lump of silicon which has atoms in it Photons come in if they have sufficient energy we can knock electrons out the atoms and then we will measure those electrons with electronics, right? So any questions at that stage? Okay Of course, it's not as simple as that even Those who love to to mess around with quantum mechanics will have heard of the Pauli exclusion principle or the pep Basically when you have a solid Your electrons are a delocalized throughout that solid in most types of solid is crystal lattice structure and this is This is largely due to the translational symmetry of crystal crystal structures The power the exclusion principle says no two electrons can be in the same energy state There are spin as well, which adds a factor of two, but in this case, it's not much of a complication Um, so what that means is in a big lump of something like a silicon crystal No two electrons can occupy exactly the same energy state Which means there are trillions of possible energy states in that silicon crystal and each electron must occupy one And so what happens is those energy states are very close to each other and they form bands so so these lines at the bottom here this at the bottom right that is called a band structure and it's basically a diagram of Momentum along the bottom. So basically direction which direction electrons traveling versus energy at the top and the orange lines are Positions where an electron can have that energy quantum mechanics allows it to have that energy by the power the exclusion principle The blue shaded region is a thing called the band gap and that is a region where they simply do not exist Possible energy states for electrons. So in a solid if you have an electron in silicon That energy there in the blue region cannot be occupied by an electron quantum mechanics doesn't allow it, right? and this is useful for us because Electrons fill up from the bottom lower energy is at the bottom and so in normal conditions Those states those orange states at the bottom are largely full and the ones above the gap are largely empty And that means that we can shoot some energy in With enough energy we can pop electrons from underneath the gap to on top of the gap And then they'll be free to move around This is not a unique property of silicon there are many semiconductors the thing about silicon that makes it so ideal Is that we happen to live in a world where we have a room temperature of about 20 degrees? And at that temperature silicon's band gap The there's a thing called the Fermi energy, which is the energy that electrons want to have basically It's the thermal energy that every electron on average wants Silicon at temperatures that we live at that Fermi energy is right in the middle of the band gap And that means that silicon is a very convenient semiconductor for us to use at temperatures that we live at Because at room temperature There are very few electrons that have crossed over and that Fermi energy is exactly what we want it in the gap So our electrons are sitting just below the gap and we can fire energy in and get them above the gap very easily There are other semiconductors which only become semiconductors at minus a hundred pretty useless to make a camera that you want to carry around with Crucial to this is the concept of holes so To think like this you have to kind of think of two diagrams at once You have to think of energy a diagram with energy going up the scale like we had in the previous slide and then a separate diagram with space If I move an electron from underneath that gap to over the gap using energy I've left behind a hole and that is the technical term a hole And if these this electron moves around a bit in space, but at that high energy It's moved away from where the hole was and the hole now looks like a separate entity And it turns out that statistically you can treat these holes just as particles We call them quasi particles with positive charge So in a semiconductor you have charge which is carried by free electrons in the conduction band and charge Which is carried by free holes in the valence band, which are just the bits left behind when we promoted the electron This is all very mind-bending. I hope it'll become clear sooner But we have to get this this stuff out of the way if I can tell you how a camera works, right? Forget that The the really interesting thing about how electrons move in a semiconductor and this is something that most people won't tell you Introductory, but I think it's important is that We're probably a lot of us familiar with the f equals ma equation there newton's second law from from basic physics in free space or in air to some extent If I put a force on a particle it will accelerate that means it doesn't just stay the same velocity It gets faster and faster as long as I maintain the force, right? The same is not true if I get a ball bearing and try and push it through some honey I can push with a lot of force But what will happen is the ball bearing will reach terminal velocity through the honey And then if I push it harder it will actually cavitate the honey around it, right? It won't actually make the ball bearing faster and you can verify this in a very messy but easy to do experiment and the interesting thing about Electrons in silicon which you need to get your head around before you truly understand it is that that is how electrons move in silicon That is the difference between in silicon and just electrons fired through a vacuum tube Electrons fired through a vacuum tube. We put a force on them. They'll keep accelerating up to relativistic speeds in Silicon you put that force on they are moving through honey silicon is like honey for electrons, okay? They are moving through honey. They will reach their terminal velocity straight away And then they just drift and we call it drifting. That's why we call it drift and There's a parameter between how much force you put on and how fast it goes called mobility And so higher the mobility the faster your electrons are moving, right? But they're not moving like in free space where you just accelerate them So that's how electrons move around silicon and how we move electrons around silicon Once we want to start making devices Interesting useful devices. We need to think old doping Basically what doping does is it introduces either excess electrons or excess holes locally into the silicon So if I replace one silicon atom with a phosphorus atom I get because phosphorus has five atoms in its outer shell silicon has four we get an extra electron there And if I replace it with a boron we get one less electron there, but if you think about it one fewer electron is one extra hole, right? so The really interesting thing about silicon is not just that it's a convenient semiconductor that we can use at temperatures that we live at But also that you can introduce these handy other elements which happen to work very well and bond very well into the silicon lattice Which give us extra carriers either holes or electrons as you see fit basically now Technologically, it's very difficult to dope something below about 10 of the 12 percent of me a cubed So pure the purest silicon we can make has something like 10 to the 10 Impurity atoms per centimeter cubed which sounds like a lot, but that's one impurity atom per hundred billion silicon atoms So it's not that many, right? But but yeah, so so introducing these these Dope and atoms allows us to control the density of electrons locally in the silicon and that's very important The most important thing to understand about how some is about semiconductor physics is a pn junction I recognize I'm going through this very fast This is to give you guys if you want to understand this This was explained to me in another graduate physics class about 10 years ago. They're just over and I Thought I understood it when they first told me it and then about six years later. I suddenly realized they understood it so Don't worry if this doesn't make sense at first An n-type bit of silicon is just one that has extra phosphorous in and a p-type is extra boron So we have extra electrons on the left side an extra holes on the right side So imagine you have two blocks of stuff. This one has extra electrons in this one has extra holes in we're gonna put them together Now this is similar to what happens if I spray a can of air freshener in the corner of the room Really hard if I spray an entire can of air freshener into the corner of the room at first You can't smell the air freshener Okay after a short while these guys here can smell it and eventually everyone can smell it But the smell gets diluted. That's a process called diffusion And it's basically a statistical process if you have a high concentration of anything Like if you put a blob of dye into some flowing water, right? At first you can see the dye just just sort of the color Forming eventually it spreads throughout the entire volume of water So electrons in silicon move in a similar way and that's because they have this honey like motion They can't just be accelerated around they drift around So if I put a block with extra electrons next to a block with extra holes What happens is the electrons start going towards where there are fewer and the holes start going towards where there are fewer and it Collide in the middle and when the electrons and holes collide because one's just a gap for the other one they can recombine and and disappear essentially and The electrons don't disappear physically. What's happening is that electron is falling into that hole Okay, so the electrons aren't disappearing physically, but the effect of that If these electrons and holes diffuse into each other and then combine is that you leave behind unscreened Ions unscreened nuclei, which are positive, right? So what's happening is electrons on holes are diffusing in just because there's more of them over here and more of them over there they diffuse in towards each other they're recombining and The result of that is that in the center You have an unscreen some unscreened carrier atoms and those unscreened atoms because they're big fixed Charges cause an electric field and that electric field pushes back on the carriers, right? So the carriers naturally want to diffuse in But by diffusing in the annihilate that annihilation causes a field which pushes back It's very complicated, but that is the basic idea once you truly understand that you understand everything about semiconductor physics That's important. Right. I mean there's obviously people do career I mean I have a career in this right, but that's the basic idea if you can understand that give it five years Because there's a few complications, but if you can understand that you you have a grasp on everything that region in the middle Where and so so obviously the more extra electrons that were here and the more extra holes were here the faster They diffuse and the faster they diffuse the more field it takes to push them back So you can control the size of this region by how many electrons and holes there were and that's very important This region is called a depletion region and it's the most important part of how a camera works So this depletion region has a huge amount of fixed positive charge and That is creates a field especially if I bias it put a voltage across it So if I just drop an extra electron in there that electron is going to zoom off to one side depending on which way I put the voltage in right and That is basically how we collect electrons in an imaging sensor We deplete a big volume of semiconductor and then the photons come in kick extra electrons out of nowhere Into that depletion region and they get sucked up towards where we put the voltage Right, it's like a vacuum cleaner once you have a depletion region You can stick a voltage on it and you can hover those electrons up towards that voltage And once you can hover up electrons in a spatially resolved manner you have a camera and Hopefully that's kind of you can see that Forget the most capacitor the the first I'm getting on to how you actually build these things now It's very important to talk about the ccd for two reasons three reasons First reason is because it was invented. It wasn't invented first, but a successful one was built first in 1969 ccd chance for charge coupled device you see why in a second The second reason the ccd is important is because these guys won a Nobel Prize for it in 2009 Certainly the only Nobel Prize that will be one for building image sensors. I think along with a guy who Was one of the grandfathers of fibroptic communications The third reason it's important to talk about ccd's is because they are still widely used in scientific applications for various reasons But they are not used at all whatsoever in commercial products anymore almost none The only commercial ccd vendor left, which will sell you a ccd is Sony and they are shutting down their ccd fab in 2018 What are we going to do? Basically there are reasons for that the reason why ccd's are no longer really manufactured commercially is because if you look at that diagram On the top left that's how a ccd is constructed. You require overlapping bits on the top overlapping gates There is no other modern IC integrated circuit technology that requires those overlaps so modern CMOS fabs just cannot do the overlaps They could do if they threw a few billion dollars at it, but why if you're only doing ccd? So what we actually have nowadays is the thing called a CMOS active pixel sensor Which is it works similarly I'm gonna explain that but it's slightly different on the left You have how a ccd is constructed on the right you have how an aps is constructed in an aps You have a readout in every pixel in a ccd. You just have one readout and we shuffle electrons towards it. I'm gonna describe that ccd is important the way it works is We have buckets these capacitors like I said you put voltage across above a depletion region You can suck electrons up and if we have arrays of of gates We can turn this one on suck electrons to here and we can turn this one on and turn this one off And the electrons are now here So a ccd is very much like those games where you have board of wood and Magnet under it and like a ball bearing or a disc on the top and you can move the magnet under under the under the wood And it moves the ball bearing around on the top. That's exactly how a ccd works But with electrons and with voltage So what happens is we build a big array of these capacitors. They're called MOS capacitors The photons arrive we've biased it put voltage on it So the electrons get sucked up one of the capacitors and then we shuffle them out to the edge of the chip Where we have a handy transistor, which looks a bit like that It looks exactly like that in fact, which was why I was a bit worried about this talk being recorded, but never mind No one's all Yeah, no one tell anyone right so how the ccd output works basically is you shuffle this charge along to your output You drop it on a capacitor and a capacitor in silicon is just a bit of n-type on the bit of p-type Two details me to tell you how why that works, but and If you remember how a capacitor works Q equals c times v charge equals capacitance times voltage, right? So if we stick a voltage on that capacitor, this is a very delicate process It's not as easy as I'm making it sound, but you drop a bit of charge into it that voltage will change, okay? So it's as simple as that you drop some charge into the capacitor by shuffling it along The voltage on that capacitor changes and then we tie that voltage very ever so gently into the gate of a MOSFET and Once you've got the gate of a MOSFET at a correct voltage You can just hump a huge amount of current through the other side of the MOSFET and you've now got a solid signal That's amplified if you just try to put a hundred electrons through a wire Which is what comes out of a ccd low light conditions You're not gonna have a good time because a hundred electrons will just get instantly wiped out by thermal currents in the wire So the most difficult part of actually building these things engineering wise is to get those delicate few hundred electrons that you've collected ever So carefully in these buckets drop them in a capacitor and Couple it into a big meaty MOSFET or other power transistors are available, but I'm telling you now They're all MOSFET That that can get that can really drive some current through and then we just measure that voltage And so now we know the voltage we measure out the other side of those that MOSFET is Related to it's not generally exactly proportional to but related to how many electrons we dropped in the capacitor, right? So it's a capacitor into the gate of a MOSFET current comes through measure this voltage tells you how many electrons you had very simple a Few extra details to build a full image sensor might want to color one I don't know why you might do and To do that what you do is you just have neighboring pixels which have optical filters on top of them red green and blue in a pattern Which is the most common one is called a Bayer pattern and so There's all sorts of interesting algorithms for how you turn this into a proper color image because you actually only got one image It's red one image is green and one image is blue and but underneath that it works exactly the same way So far what I've said is is you know how these things work There are obviously difficulties in actually designing the thing If you're someone who wants to design a camera chip a sensor chip for for any kind of optical stuff You have to be concerned about getting those photons absorbed now Silicon is not that reflective As you can see there actually at 400 nanometers It's about half of the photons you fire on it bounce straight back So you've got to sort that out somehow you don't want to lose half the light before you start We use that with a thing called anti reflection coatings which are black magic and no one has a clue how they work The other thing you've got to be concerned about is if you want a camera that can detect very well in the reds or the infrared You can't go too far into the infrared because once you're below the bandgap You just won't be throwing any electrons across it at all, but The absorption depth in silicon that means how far a photon travels through silicon before it on average gets absorbed in infrared Starts to get out into the centimeters and near infrared So if you want something that can see infrared you want a big thick piece of silicon and to give you some context by really really thick I'm talking about a hundred microns But that's a lot thicker than most other types of chips Your phone camera is typically four or five microns of active silicon Which will get the blues nicely gets the reasonable reds nicely One trick that you can do this was started to be done in the 1990s Is basically build your chip as normal which is the left picture there front illuminated The problem with that is especially on a CMOS chip you have layers of metal on top of the silicon So you've got silicon and oxide layer six layers of metal sometimes and in between those are other oxide layers The problem with that is if you've ever looked at a sheet of aluminium you'll notice it's not very transparent so Even a very thin sheet of aluminium is not very transparent most photons don't get through it and we're talking about 20 or 30 nanometers thick typically So what you can do simply it's not simple But in principle is simple you make your chip as normal You you you flake it off the wafer of silicon flip it over put it in the package that way and hey presto Now your photons are just seeing silicon Very simple idea and they thought of it in the 70s, but it took 20 years to actually build one that worked at all But if you do that you instantly get a huge boost in in both the blue and the red on on on how much light you can capture Yes, okay Yeah, thanks. So interestingly there is a process Related to Poisson statistics, which is actually a very simple process to talk about it to anyone who's interested where you can Calibrate your camera in electrons You can always calibrate any camera in Units of electrons and that's because they're quantum mechanical particles and they're subject to Poisson statistics So you match the Poisson statistics with what the numbers you are seeing you can calibrate it in electrons So I can take a camera that camera with a bit of messing around providing get the raw pixel output and tell you how Many electrons and therefore how many photons arrived at it? That's like this is incredible. I mean this is how modern astronomy works It's kind of a dirty little secret, but that's how you do absolute light measurements nowadays So I thought that was interesting. I'll just go for a couple of bits this on the bottom left is a picture of where I work now I'm not in this picture. Thankfully because the hair netting is atrocious We're working on Atlas silicon strip detectors are built there some of them With without a big particle physics experiments, you're not generally concerned about light particles you're concerned about big hump and grit like neutrons and muons and stuff that have mass and They can just blast blast through a piece of silicon like a bullet through a bit of MDF and just dump a huge amount of charge Into the silicon instead of just one Electron for a visible photon But after you've done that the principle of collecting it Sucking it up from a depletion region reading it out by dumping it on a capacitor is Identical to the camera in your phones You've got to be a bit concerned about radiation damage because you're basically putting a thing with the energy of speeding train through these Hundreds of times a second, so it's a bit more difficult, but that's how that works medical imaging things like the MediPix sensor which which we also work on is Interesting that doesn't use silicon it use the thing called mercury cadmium telluride normally which is which is a different semiconductor It turns out if you bond a semiconductor to a bit of silicon So you do the readout on this bit of silicon you do the collection on that bit of silicon You can optimize both separately and get much nicer images and finally the bit I work closest on is the LST camera This is a 3.2 giga pixel camera consisting of 21 sets of 3 by 3 CCDs each of which is 4,000 by 4,000 pixels So it is quite large It's about 5 foot 5 tall That's the focal plane of the camera is about 5 foot 5 tall the block down there in the bottom right is Paul Conor the guy who designed it or at least designed the focal plane sensors part of it These are done with CCDs Because CCD we've been making them for 30 years. They're nice and linear you can make them very thick 300 microns if you want and they collect electrons beautifully and That will do and thank you very much if anyone wants to talk to you about any of this anytime I'm more than welcome to chat about it


This is Think Tech Hawai'i. The community matters here. Hi. Welcome to Seymour's World on Think Tech Hawai'i. It's a pleasure to have you here, and I have a very special guest for us. Before I introduce him, though, I want to tell you something to set the stage for you. Every Saturday and Sunday, I go to play tennis at Kapiolani Tennis Park. And I have coffee with a man who has become a very close friend of mine. His name is Tom Powell. Tom and I sit down for about half an hour, 45 minutes, before each tennis session, and we talk about the world. And I only found out recently that Tom lives in his car. He lives in his car at Kapiolani Tennis Park and has been there for several years. And here, this highly intelligent, very articulate man has become one of my best friends and somebody that I can talk to about anything, and I feel that Tom can talk about anything to me. So I wanted to talk about the homeless situation. I wanted to talk about why it is so terrible, not just here in Honolulu, but everywhere around North America. And I felt that by having Tom on air with me on Seymour's World, we may not be able to solve all the problems, but we can actually understand what it is from the grassroots, not from the social workers, not from the politicians, not from all of the people who say they know what to do. But we're going to hear and talk to Tom about the actual living conditions as a homeless person here in Hawaii. So Tom, welcome to Seymour's World. Pleasure to be here and thanks for having me on the show. It is an absolute pleasure. I'm actually, I have goosebumps, because this has been something I've wanted to do with you for several months and we finally got the timing to have you come. And I know it's not easy for you to be here because you're open to the audience of the world, but I want them to understand who you are. Tell us a little bit about your past. Okay. Oh, that part about intelligent and articulate and all that. Can I get that in writing? Yes, go ahead. Basically, I first came to Hawaii in the late 60s with the military on my way to lovely Vietnam where they said I was needed, which of course wasn't quite the case. And after bouncing back a little more, back and forth between here and there for a little more than four years, I separated locally because they had just changed the regulations to where you could do that. Prior to that, you had to go back to Treasure Island to separate from the Navy on the West Coast. So I separated locally and I did want to stay in Hawaii. I had come to enjoy the community quite a bit.  I called my family and told them I was going to stay for a little while and do some more scuba diving, which I did for the first decade or so. I practically lived on the beaches here. But after that reality came around and I had to start going and doing things, which I had sort of been doing, but I was doing more scuba diving than anything else. I think the real reason was I didn't want to go back home. Denver was a fairly sterile community at that time. Very, very, very middle of the road. A bit on the conservative side too in terms of thinking, not necessarily inflexible or intolerant, but just whatever you do, keep it to yourself, keep it behind closed doors, we don't want to know. But it was not a diverse community in those days at all. Were you living in Hawaii and working at the time, or were you living on the beach homeless at the time? I was actually working at the time. Various things. My first job was actually with an air conditioning representative here working in the warehouse, and occasionally taking air conditioning units out to a job site, either to unload them or to help whoever the installer was from one of their sister corporations put the thing in. But the dock strike happened and the inventory dried up. And I wasn't the most recent hire. The most recent hire was a local Japanese guy, but he had a family and I didn't. So at that point, Tom, when you were working in Hawaii and living in Hawaii at the time, that led to some good work as well, didn't it? You were working, you had other jobs as well, besides the air conditioning gig. Well, I went from the air conditioning gig to actually selling cookware door to door. Really? And I sold cookware door to door for a number of months, and I finally learned to sell, which was mostly a matter of learning to shut up.  But I found that product belief is everything. When your product belief begins to falter, so do your sales. Because if you don't really believe in it, it's very hard to make anybody else believe in it. So you had a career in sales, you had a career in warehouse distribution, all that stuff. And then when I met you a year or two ago, you were already at Capilani Tennis Center. So what were you doing at that time in the last couple of years? Whatever I can get, whatever I can get. The trouble with being darn near 70 and looking for work is they accept the application and thank you very much, and that's the end of it. It's really difficult to hire anybody that's that age from a healthcare standpoint.  What tech are you doing? Can't you find any people who are 35? So if two candidates are available for the job and one is under 45 and the other one is pushing 70, guess who gets the job? And nobody says this. Sometimes I got so tired of beating my head on that wall I wished they would call me up and read me out in four letter words and tell me we wouldn't hire you if you were the last person on the plant and here's why. At least give me a little feedback. But now you are working, right? Can I say what you're doing? Well, yeah, I'm driving part-time. I'm also doing some mechanical work on cars when I can get it. I'm doing construction work and painting part-time. Like I said, whatever I can get.  I've learned that over the years that I've known. Well, I am opinionated, but I think it's the right one. I think living in your car and being able to keep your head high the way you do is amazing. It's something, I mean, as a business consultant and a mentor to many people, I know a lot of people who are much higher than you in income level and much lower than you in personal stature, and I think that's important for you to know. Well, thank you. It's really true. Now, tell us a little bit about your finance. Everybody wants to know how do you make a living? Are you able to go from, well, if it is a paycheck or from work to work to make it happen? Sometimes it's really close. There are sometimes when I'm eating out of a can, I call it male to uncle's serve at Fresco. And if we translated that, we got to find a point on it. You know what, out of the can in the fresh air. Yes. But, yeah, it's hard to get hold of enough money to be able to live halfway decently because all of your food choices are pretty much what you can get out of restaurants. So you have some restaurants at the low end where for 8 to 12 bucks, you can get a really decent meal and you really only need one a day. But you have to learn to avoid the routine fast food stuff. There are only a few things out there that are palatable or good for you. We talked about this. You're better off to go to the supermarket and buy something and munch into it, you know, whatever it is. And Tom, the food choice is not just the other issue. You're very clean. You keep yourself that way all the time. You're able to find a way to live to give yourself cleanliness, good food, because you're in very good shape. And obviously, you're still working, which I think is fantastic. You're not relying on our social system. Am I correct? So far not.  I would have eaten better if I had EBT or something like that, quite a bit better. But so far, I just haven't been able to bring myself to do it. And on the soap and water issue, soap and water is not that expensive. When I can't afford that, I'm going to go over to the park and take a sharp blade with me. That'll be that.  It's just good for you. There are points past which you cannot allow life to push you if you expect to keep your sanity. But it is a fight with depression. The depression of all of it is very daunting. It's very difficult to deal with. And even though you can still laugh and tell jokes and things like that, you can still be really seriously depressed behind that, even to the point where I've had the medical people that are in my life notice it and offer me something for it. And I keep telling you, you've got an income and a pill. That would solve the problem. If you've got an income and a pill, I'm fine, because I know it's depressing me. I know it's causing the problem and we're going to deal with the cause or we're not going to deal with it. And the cause is finding a job. The cause is homelessness and lack of income. Well, that brings us right in. That's segue exactly into the next question. Describe homelessness here in Hawaii. Is it strictly a lack of income? Because when we look at what we're seeing on television with the homeless, it's not just a lack of income. There is issues about mental issues. We have issues about physical pills, addiction. Tell me what it's really like. That is all very much a part of it. You see, as I've seen it, it seems to break down in almost thirds. A third of the people out there are people who have mental issues and are really unprepared to fend for themselves. And one person living like that should ashamed us all. You see people that are in their 60s and 70s and quite clearly dealing with mental issues that they cannot surmount. Maybe they could with medication. Maybe they're on the medication already. You don't know. But they're constantly pushed from pillar to post, wherever they show up. They're not wanted. And they shouldn't have to live like that. Those people showed up on the street during and a little after the Reagan administration when the federal government pulled back the funds that used to support things like Lumeli Little Home. There was a place where these people could be kept, where they could be fed, where they could be housed, where people could look after them, make sure they fit their medications, where they had clean facilities, where they had people to help them with whatever activities of daily living they might be challenged by. But the mental issues are still there today. We have as many, that one third that you're talking about, it's still there. Yes, they're definitely on the street. Now there are other people who are, I suppose you could say, voluntarily mentally challenged. They are substance abusers. They are clearly unable to help themselves. Often they're unwilling to accept help. And this is where the difficulty comes in. Because until they want help, until they decide they need to do something different, it's very difficult to help them. This is a very significant watershed in any kind of dysfunction or addiction that way. Even just simple alcoholism. That will keep you on the street. That will keep you out there. That will keep you doing nothing and getting nowhere. Tom, both of those are critical issues in what we're going to talk about after our break. The biggest problem I have in what you said is that people that are addicted to substance abuse, they don't want to help themselves. I honestly believe that addiction is a disease. And I believe that it has to be looked at from the government standpoint, city, state, federal government, so that it becomes part of the social system network we have to help, rather than look at it and say, why don't they help themselves? And I think we're going to talk about that after the break. And then you have the third third of them all, which are people who, for whatever reason, they don't want to cope. They could cope. We're going to talk about what do we do about those as well. Give us a minute. This is Seymour's World. I'm Seymour Kazimurski with my very good friend Tom Powell. We have to take a short break, and we're coming back to try to find how we fix the homeless situation here in Hawaii. Ted Rawson here, folks. You're a host on Where the Drone Leads, our weekly show at noon on Thursdays here on Think Deck. We talk about drones, anything to do about drones, drones, remotely piloted aircraft, unmanned aircraft, whatever you want to call them, emerging into Hawaii's economy, educational framework, and our public life. We talk about things associated with the use, the misuse, technology, engineering, legislation with the local experts as well as people from across the country. Please join us noon on Thursdays and catch the latest on what's taking place in the world of drones that might affect you. Aloha. My name is Steven Phillip Katz. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, and I'm the host of Shrink Wrap Hawaii, where I talk to other shrinks. Did you ever want to get your head shrunk? Well, this is the best place to come to pick one. I've been doing this. We must have 60 shows with a whole bunch of shrinks that you can look at. I'm here on Tuesdays at 3 o'clock every other Tuesday. I hope you are too. Aloha. Hi. Welcome back to Seymour's World on Think Deck Hawaii. We have a show today with Tom Powell, one of my very good friends, who I have known for probably two to three years now. And I know him from playing tennis. He doesn't play tennis with us, but he is homeless, and he lives in his car at Capulani Tennis Center. And this is where I've got to know him. Every Saturday and Sunday morning, we have coffee together, and we talk. And I wanted him to come on the show to talk about what happened. So Tom, the first segment of our show went so quickly, we only did two of my questions. So we're going to have to go a little bit faster. Yes. Well, you identified the three parts of what the homeless situation is about. One, you said are the addicts. Two, you said are the people who don't want to do anything to help themselves. And third are the physical and mental issues that people may have. On all three of those, I feel we have to do something. And I feel that you have to help us understand what we should be doing to help each of those three pieces of the puzzle. Well, it's a very difficult issue because with the legal structure that we have in place, they're sort of doing what they think they can. And of course, it's totally ineffective. We're just moving people from one place to another. I get so angry with that, Tom. And they're spending piles of money to do it. Yeah, it's costing piles of money to do it. It's totally mis-spent. But it solves the... It gives political expedience. Yeah, it's a PR problem. It takes the thorn out of your shoe in one corner and puts it over in the other. And at a certain point politically, I suppose this is pro... If you look at it from the standpoint of an office folder, but it does nothing to solve the problem. Now, as to what solutions there are, the money would be better spent to try to do as much as you can for those that you can. That's the two-thirds. The physical and mental and the addict problem, right? Yes. The other part of the problem I really think is burgeoning not only here but in the United States for the simple reason that this country has been transformed into a less-than-prosperous country with a very low standard of living that people don't seem to be aware of. This used to be the highest standard of living in the world, in this country. It used to be the most prosperous nation on earth. And if it is compared to other countries, it no longer holds such a place, only in the minds of the people, which unfortunately have not changed. Now, why that is, I don't know, but I'm sort of aware that probably only about 12% to 15% of them have ever even had a passport. Fewer than that number have been outside the country in the last decade. But let me try to interpret what you're saying. It could be they just don't know that they're living in a third-world country. But let's assume now we're trying to look at the homeless situation. If we take the people who are mentally incapacitated physically incapacitated, who have addiction issues, and we get them into rehab centers, or we get them into shelters where people can help them and take care of them both physically, mentally, and addiction-wise, you still have that one-third. That's thousands of people that live here who don't want to move. What do we do with those? Do we do what they do in Singapore, where they pick them up and take them somewhere? You'll find actually that falls into... I was planning on asking you whether you wanted to talk about this seriously or humorously, because that falls into the kind of black humor side of this thing where we allocate the number of homeless people to each political district. Each political district having approximately the same number of people. So each district would get its allocation of homeless people. And we would have to live there. Then we could just issue the homeless-numbered T-shirts with yellow H on the front. And sooner or later, some Bret Young politics would come up with the final solution. You know, it's a chilling idea. We could also sell futures or sell... sort of... we could monetize them. And so the people in the wealthier districts could buy up all of the homeless living permits for their area, and the homeless would have to go someplace else, the homeless in general, so their mothers shrunk ahead for ten bucks. What about Tom? What about the... This would be a way to keep the homeless out of the better parts of town, if you will. I'm not worried about that part. I'm trying to think of a solution that helps us guide our politicians in understanding where we have to go. I heard one the other day that says, everybody who is homeless, if we were to give them a refuge, a place to go to, they would go to. You're saying one-third of them would not. They just don't want to be... they want to be able to take their dogs. They want to do everything that they want to do, which they have right now as a citizen of the U.S. What do we do, Tom? What can we do? The only thing that I think we can do is to try to work... well, short of the Singaporean laws, the Draconian laws, the only thing I think we can do is to try to transform the country back into a prosperous one where the average man on the bottom rung of the ladder can hold his head up to some extent. I think I told you about when I was a kid, I had a minimum wage job as one of only two full-time bag boys in the supermarket system in Denver. I was with, say, I was with another chain. We were the only two in the city, but I lived in what I made. I had my own apartment in a nice building, center block building, all carpeted, laundry in the basement, coin operated, of course, but didn't pay any utilities, fully heated, a nice little studio apartment. And you made enough money to be able to afford to live there with the subsidies that you were getting. I didn't have any subsidies at all. I had the minimum wage, the grocery store, I had a bus pass. I worked in the grocery store, and occasionally one of the butchers would take a package of chuck steak and market his hamburger. I'd buy it at 13 cents a pound instead of 29 cents a pound, but that was as far as it went. And that wasn't that awful. So now bring that to where we are today. Obviously, we're in a different phase, and I'm starting to understand what you're saying. If the country that wants to take care of the homeless situation, we have to make the atmosphere for them acceptable for them to not want to be homeless. Is that what you're saying? That would be a good first start. The simple fact is that there are homeless people out there who are homeless because they made a poor choice between rent food and medicine for their kids, and they chose wrong according to their landlord and chose food and medicine for their kids, and they are living in cars, and both the husband and wife have jobs most of the time more than one job because in the world that we have created it's very hard to get a full-time minimum wage if you get a part-time job because over 20 hours they have to start paying you benefits. They have to start paying the matching... They can't make enough money to actually rent a place, therefore they have to stay where they are. Exactly. They can't make enough money to get back in and they can barely make enough money to be where they are, and they get shoved from pillar to post. As soon as the police are aware that they're living in their cars they cite them, so they end up having to take time of a job they do have to go down to a cart and explain to the judge what it says. I mean, they're between a rock and a hard place. Tom, the frustration for me is not just for people like you because you're my friend, but you know I'm involved in children's programs at the hospital with our make-em smile and our foster kids. When I drive by a row of tents and I see kids there my heart just bleeds. I can't stand the idea that we live in such a prosperous nation we spend gazillions of dollars on bombs and all this kind of stuff and we can't take care of these people. What life solutions are those children learning? How are they learning to what kind of a lifestyle are they learning to look for? What kind of choices are they learning to make that are bad for them? It's just, yeah, it's very daunting. I have foster kids that I work with, Tom, that live in cars and they have to live in cars. That's just the way it is. And I understand that and I'm trying to help them via education I'm trying to help them via focusing on their future, looking at the light at the end of the tunnel. Everything that they need to take that first step forward so that they don't look back and do the same thing that they were there and some of them can't do it, Tom because we don't give them enough choices. We don't give them the right path to go forward. Education is the only antidote to poverty.  He should be put away somewhere. In fact, the other day they announced that for the first time student loan debt outstrips credit card debt this is a horrifying statistic. And only in the United States but almost the rest of the world education is free but only here. Education and medicine are a given anywhere else. Everybody talks about how wonderful it is to have this wonderful healthcare system we have well it isn't so wonderful because it doesn't serve everybody and compare this country with any of those other countries. In those other countries where you want to start a business go start a business.  Tom, we have a problem. Our show is over. We're out of time. Yes, we are out of time. And I do want to continue it and I hope you will be kind enough to join me again because we haven't really gone over. We've talked about the big picture. We've talked about the middle picture but I want to talk about the picture that says this is what we have to do. And I think we're getting there. I'm starting to see it myself and I'm sure our audience is starting to see it as well. Let's join me again. I would be glad to. I want to thank you so much for coming on Seymour's World. I would be glad to and thank you very much for having me on the show. It's been a pleasure. My pleasure. Really has been. Thank you very much. To all of you out there, I hope you learn something because I certainly have. Homelessness is not a simple issue. Extremely complicated. But just by saying that doesn't mean we should do nothing and move people from one location to another. That is ridiculous and it doesn't do anything for any of us. We will continue talking about it. I'm Seymour Kazimurski on Seymour's World Aloha.


Hello, I'm Phil. I'm working for Red Hat and today I would like to elaborate a bit on the question, why should you use IP route 2? Or in detail, should you at all? So, what is IP route 2 about? It's mostly famous, the IP utility, which many of you know about, but there's actually more that comes with the package. We have a replacement for net start, which is called SS, a bit of a bad name for German.  We have some obscurity utility, which does things with bridges, but it's not exactly replacement to bridge utilities. We have the famous TC, everyone doing QoS probably had to deal with it. And yeah, there's some minor stuff like this transparent IPC configuration utility. I personally didn't use. And obviously there are many more, which I have no idea if they are used at all or just dinosaurs from for in time. I will in this talk basically just cover the first three items, because the rest is beyond the scope. Okay, so general question. Do you really want to use this? And many of you would say you don't. And well, I got used to it, so I can't really answer this question why, but I did some research on the Internet and people were complaining and I tried to write together what they were complaining about. So the biggest issue is it's hard to learn, especially when your muscle memories remember the old stuff. And Manpage isn't exactly readable to people not perfectly used to BNF. In addition, it has a whole of 17 subcommands. So the IP main page is pretty overwhelming. You can, in order to reduce typing, you can abbreviate them, which means your friend who reads your history doesn't have an idea what you were doing. And sometimes you have to take care how you order the different parameters. It's not exactly get-hop. So to be precise, not at all. So it's not intuitive. Many people also said it's simply inconvenient. With if config, you could just set if config, eth0, IP address, and boom, you have your interface. With IP route, you have to add the IP address and then in addition, set it up. And when you list your interfaces, you don't see the statistics by default, so you don't see what it's doing. But in addition, you get all the disabled interfaces which many don't like or are not interested in. So, yeah. And which is kind of funny if you try to mess with your co-working Swiss admin, you can add IPv4 aliases which are not seen by if config, so you can play games with them. Further things. Output formatting is a big issue. It's like you're trying to display the routing table, but you don't see a table at all. It's just a number of messy lines. SS kind of goes the opposite way. It overdusts tabling, so you always get the full terminal width, no matter how wide your terminal is, and it still tends to break lines. Another thing I heard was IP route 2 is Linux specific. If config, net start, load, these are basically Unix commandos, so going to BSD or whatever, true 64, you can at least have an idea what you should look at. IP route 2 isn't existing there at all. And yeah, it's a bit cheating, but still you can't do everything with it. Yeah. Of course, I couldn't display my presentation using IP route. Not that I would want to, but still you have ETH tool and IW config. There's no support for wireless or hardware like that. So, yeah. Next up. Okay. To illustrate a bit, I have a number of questions for you. First one is, what does IPRS really stand for? We have route set, route show, route set, route show. The answer is IP route show. That was pretty obvious. So, we take the next simple example, IPLS. Is it L2TP set, show, link set, or link show? You're undecided? Okay. Let's see. It's IP link set. So, not exactly what you would expect. Next thing is, we're covering parameter ordering. I've colored the different parts of the parameters for you to easily recognize them. So, the link part is always red. Then we have green, the name, and blue, the type. Actually, only one of them is red. I know it's too hard. It's too hard. So, see what's the right answer. I'll explain this right now. So, I didn't write that code, luckily. But I can try to explain it a bit. At least, why things are like this. So, let's start with, let's start with parameter shortening. What IP route basically does is it calls a function which is called matches. And matches does just check is the parameter which you gave it shorter than what you have passed a second argument, or shorter or equal. So, it's not exceeding it. And then it compares only that part. So, if you, given this in a main function, and you pass f as arc v, then it will default to foo bar instead of feedback, simply because it comes first. And this is not intuitive because they are not alphabetically sorted. But it's like this in the code. So, you could always look up the code if you want to know what is the default. Okay. Now, ordering constraints, they are, they actually make sense. Although you wouldn't recognize if you don't know. The point is here that the type keyword actually, in secret, dispatches to type specific code. So, while the interface name and the link parameter which says which interface to link this interface name to belongs to the generic IP, and the ID is a parameter which belongs to the VLAN specific code. So, that's why you have to order it like this. And once you know it, the previous question can simply be answered. Okay. SS output formatting. I try to fix this, and it's not so easy. The problem is that it's not so easy. It supports unix sockets. Unix sockets are just a file, and it displays the whole path. So, you can't say, okay, it's at max 128 bits in IPv6 notation, but it could be any path named with arbitrary length. So, it just tries to use the maximum space available so it can display them. It uses, well, it finds out how wide the terminal is, and then just expands the columns. And it tries to separate this all from extended socket info by inserting a bit of spaces. So, the extended data gets forced into the next line. Not with a new line, but just because it's too wide, and it knows how wide the terminal is. In addition to that, some extended info is still prefixed by a new line character. So, if you have a small terminal, you type a command, and you maximize it, this won't go in one line. So, that's just how it is, and let's see if something can be done about it in the future. So, still, I think you should use APROT, and this is how. We have, well, we have, well, we have lots of tools which are being deprecated or replaced by APROT. Yeah, the obvious ones, of course. In addition to that, you can do the full VLAN device management with it. You can manage Ethernet bridges, bonding configuration, Tantab interfaces. You can set IPsec parameters, security associations, and policies. You can control the neighbor cache also of IPv6. So, I don't know if there's a dedicated tool for that. You can do multicast address management with it. Various IP tunnels, there are a dozen of them also, and interface renaming, which is usually done either by Namev or by Udev, or SystemD, I don't know. You can do it with IPROT too. Okay, it supports a wide variety of interface types. There are definitely more than this, but those are only, well, not even all, but those are those for which you have type-specific code. So, like for the VLAN interfaces, the ID parameter, stuff like that. I don't list MACSEC interfaces here, because as far as I know, it's not yet upstream, but yeah, apart from that, I guess pretty much everything is meanwhile implemented in IPROT tool, and there are no dedicated tools anymore for newer device types, which get added to the kernel, and therefore, the default is IPROT. You can have, well, documentation is not as clear, but there is link-specific helps. So, if you use IP link hub, with all the code parameter, it will show you generic options, and in addition to that, the number of a list of interface names, or type names, which it supports, and passing it the type, you should get type-specific help texts. You should, because on Red 7 it's not there yet, but it's in the process. Okay, so IP address is better than if config. A few examples, you don't need to have IP aliases to have multiple IPv4 addresses per interface. You can select devices by giving a selector, and, well, it displays peer addresses. This is just something that if config doesn't know about or isn't able to. Below is an example of this. So, what I did was I wanted to show the addresses of ETH0, which go to the subnet, and as you see it prints me three different addresses in a subnet, actually, which is quite fine. I could also skip away the device parameter, so I get all addresses which the host has to the subnet for every address. And the second example shows a peer address, so it's basically point-to-point. There is more info, like, for example, the dynamic keyword, which shows that this interface, that this address was added by DHCP, and the last line shows a label, ETH0.colon1, which is compatibility mode for if config. So, if config will then show you an ETH0.colon1 with this IP address. Next one, IP route, which supersedes route by supporting policy routing, which of course goes hand-in-hand with multiple routing tables. You can, just like with IP address, look up routes selectively. You can save and restore routes, just like you can do with, for example, IP tables. I have no idea. I think maybe. Because I couldn't mention that you just have the kernel done the whole route, the whole routing table. That would be atomic, kind of, and I'm not sure how the kernel implements this. And it might be possible that you can add several routes at once, so the restore would be the same way. But I would have to check the code for that. In addition to that, IP route supports extended features and flags, which I couldn't find in route documentation. It might be wrong. I don't use it for a very long time now. I have some examples here as well, like showing a route for the subnet. I guess it has to be exact with the show command, and it shows me which source address will then be used. In addition to that, there is a get command, which shows me if I wanted to route a packet to this destination IP, which way would the kernel choose? And that's pretty neat. So it shows me that this IP goes on to ETH0 with this source address and cache. You can try that later. It's a good idea, so I know what I do. Okay. The last line just shows a pretty useless example of how to save and restore. So save just writes binary data to send it out, and IP route restore reads binary data from send it in. So you can use this to do stuff that doesn't make sense, but you can also redirect it into... What is IPv6? I might be wrong, but I would guess that IP route simply outputs the v4 routing table, because usually when using IP route, you have to specify minus 6 explicitly, so you get IPv6 routes. It could be that this is IP version agnostic, but I doubt so. I guess you would have to do the same for IPv6 as well. Okay. Why is SS better than net start? Although you wouldn't expect. In addition to the well known socket formats, it displays also netlink and packet sockets. It has a built-in socket filter, which makes the ungrapable output a little bit more grabable by having a built-in grab. It uses the netlink DRG interface, but it can fall back to procfs, which is used by netstart. This in particularly allows it to display lots more information about the socket than procfs does. And below is an example. So I filter for established sockets with a source port lower or equal to 1024. And by surprise, I have an example of a socket that is only the SSH connection I have to this machine. I see which user there is with PID and which FD number that is. I see, for example, TCP info, like the congestion control mechanism, which has been used, and stuff like the maximum segment size. So that's pretty nice. I have some bonus material for the case that I have too much time, like I guess I have. There is, for all of you who prefer if config just because of convenience, there is if CFG, which tries to do everything even a little bit better than if config. Maybe it overdoes it a bit, but it, of course, sets your link up. It performs duplicate address detection. You can use it like if config with IP alias notation and knows what to do. It sends unsolicited up replies. It adds some fancy routes. And it can even trigger router discovery for IPv6. Still, I'm not pretty sure this will, this is completely compatible to IPv6. So it might be that there are some hidden pitfalls. Okay, you have, there is a tool which allows you to list routes as tables. It's basically implemented as a shell wrapper. It lists IPv4 and IPv6 routes at the same time. Although you can't select them specifically. If, well, it supports the table, but if you choose the table to display, then it automatically displays only IPv4, which is pretty much a bug. And table formatting is still a bit broken because of that column choosing algorithm, which is not quite understandable and, well, not pretty well implemented. Another thing which I find very nice to do with IP route is listing network namespaces, which are, in case you're unfamiliar, is like a virtual network stack on your local host. You can move network interfaces into there, which are then limited to that scope. And you can run a process in there which only sees the network as it is represented by this network namespace. Very quick how-to, lots of commands. First line adds a network namespace named test and lists it. Second command adds a virtual Ethernet pair and automatically moves the VETH1 part into the test net and then two commands, lines 3 and 4, to contribute the interface and set it up. Lines 5 and 6 do the same to the local interface and that's all. Finally I can ping the other side. This allows me to do server client tests, for example, on a local machine without having to have some virtual machine or anything. Statistics, most importantly, and I guess not really well known, is LNSTAT, which is able to monitor everything that's within Prognet STAT. There are many files in there and the format is not really human readable. You can choose from which file, which key or which column you want to monitor and it supports running in iterations. So it's like with watch attached. To make things a little bit more convenient, there's a minus D parameter, which just prints what keys are presented in which file and an example usage is to iterate every two seconds and list the key or the column hits from the file up cache and entries from RT cache. There are more statistics using LNSTAT, these monitor different things, but the implementation is pretty much identical, which has the same box finally. It supports some demon mode, which is a bit unintuitive, that's why I have it here explicitly. So you start, for example, if STAT minus D10, so it will update its statistics every 10 seconds and this will fork into background and with if STAT minus S, you call the demon to dump the statistics. So although this watch command will update every two seconds by default, the data will only update every 10 seconds. Okay, hands on. Things will get funny right now. I heard one suggestion to look at what was that, routes dumping, so questions, how do we do this? Is it okay? So how do we interpret this? I have no idea actually. It's not ASCII format, otherwise you would see it on the right side. So that's binary, but I have an idea. I have those IPv6 routes, so I'll add an IPv6 address, have another IPv6 routing table entry and I can simply compare the output. This is cheating, you know. So probably it just updated the counters. I didn't show them before, did I? You see parameter ordering. Yeah, another way to tackle this. Oh, you finally see a difference. So I can't be completely sure, but I'd say this is limited to IPv4 and you have to specify minus 6 to have the IPv6 routing table. That's what we do. I could look at Ellenstart. This is the output you get from the minus D command. So you can basically choose what to dump here. That's basically the table format you get. That's as beautiful as it looks. Yes? By table? By table or by what? By type. Ah, by type. Yeah, it's problematic here because it's possible upstream, but not in REL7 yet. You could do something like this and it might also be a missing feature. So you can't list addresses by type, but you can list links by type and given the link, you can show the address by specifying the device. Yes? Sure, go ahead. Can you say a word or two about the relationship to Admin Manager because it basically has to stop there. Yeah, Network Manager is front end, I'd say, in regards of the relationship between both. And looking at, well, if you try to use both concurrently, you'll maybe run into issues. So Network Manager at least doesn't recognize what you're doing. And yeah, with Network Manager, you... The reason I'm asking is because I think with REL7 you supposed to use Network Manager. Yeah, but, well, just so much for this, I'm using IP route for testing in there and it's not like it's taking me the IP address away or something. So it doesn't interfere. Yeah, I don't do anything in Network Manager and as long as I don't do that, it's fine. I guess I have to try to hit you with this car. Any more questions? Not a question, but rather a proposal. No questions? From what I see, you are slowly implementing a skill like interface to Admin Manager. Perhaps it's time to consider the implement and SQL interface with your language within your set of tools. This sounds more practical rather than trying to implement your own version of your talk. Yeah, I mean, we could maybe implement a dual interface to REL2. Well, the scripted language, it's pretty famous and it's flexible. Well, that's probably interesting, but what the time to achieve or the time to resolve is easier to solve with SQL. Because what you're doing is to select from the same way. We got a new query language. Yeah. Our language is using proper languages for the task. Actually, maybe do this pretty simple by dumping the data, full data into a SQL database, and then currently that's okay. I really feel like throwing the scarf at you is wrong. Any other questions? I think I have a little bit to sort it out. Because the order of the interfaces is going to be very good. So I saved the output of the gateway address show, and removed the machine, and then the other one. The order is different. Yeah, I'll put real order input. Well, with the explanation, natively the output is ordered by interface index. Yes. And those change. It will be possible to sort by the name of the interface. Yeah, I have some option. But then the effort indexes will be different, so the word will be still different. So the names are present as well. Yeah, but the effort index is on the beginning of the line will be different. Yeah, but it doesn't matter if I sort of, if I, if the output in your index is ordered, if I want to sort by the name of the interface, so I don't understand what the name is. If you would sort by the name and do it in between the outputs, is it still actually not, and that the input index could have changed already, and there might be some other information which is slightly different for you? I don't want to cut you off, but before people leave, I would like to thank you. Here are some links to documentation, like main pages. Yeah, and you can leave feedback if you like, apart from that. Thanks for listening.


Famous locality areas for pentatology in the park. See, so a lot of times, a lot of times when we find the bones, this is what you'll find. There's an accumulation that's rolled down the hill. And this is what happens to the bones when they sit on the surface for a long period of time. They basically break apart into smaller and smaller fragments and at a point in time, it becomes impossible to put them back together. So all these bones out of out of the hill have basically come from these bones here. So what we do is we dig in and we see if we can uncover them. These little tools like dental picks, things like that and brushes, and we slowly expose the bone. It's kind of hard to see it first, but once we get it cleaned off, you'll be able to see it a lot better. Yeah, everything you're seeing here that's dark colored is bone and the gray is the rock that's surrounding it.  Generally we take strips of burlap and plaster and we'd cover it with a little separator in between, usually toilet paper or tissue paper to keep the plaster from sticking to the actual bones. And then after we had it all pedestaled and a plaster cap on top, we'd undercut it, flip it over, put plaster on the other side and then that's basically a handy carrying case to bringing it back to the lab. And then once we had it in the lab, we'd open it up and remove all the rock, glue together all these broken cracks and stuff and pretty much you'd end up with the whole element just like you see in the museum.


So the key difference between an ideal lipid bilayer that is quite easy to simulate in a computer and a biological membrane is that a biological membrane contains a total of proteins and other stuff. This is just an example. In fact, this structure is so complicated that it took us quite a while before we started having even decent models. One of the best models was developed by Singer and Nicholson, and it was published in 1972. I'm going to write down that one because it's important to remember. It's occasionally called the fluid mosaic model or alternatively the Singer-Nicholson model. So the idea Singer and Nicholson had is that looking at the lipids, the lipids behave kind of like a two-dimensional liquid, not even kind of. You can actually show that the lipid bilayer is a two-dimensional liquid. Each lipid is free to diffuse around in the XY plane, just like water molecules would be free to diffuse around in three dimensions. It's just that the lipids can't escape the lipid bilayer because then they would have to go out in the water. But in addition to the lipids, we have this mosaic of tons of stuff diffusing around. But they're diffusing around quite freely, and that's the fluid components. So you have a fluid where many components forming a mosaic are diffusing around freely. Some of these components you have, do you see the blue big blob there? That's an integral membrane protein. So that's a large protein sitting in the membrane, which is a large component of the protein itself in the membrane. Now the protein has one domain outside of the membrane and possibly another domain part inside the membrane. You have another protein up here. That's a peripheral membrane protein, meaning that a protein that might just be anchored on one side. So it's a protein that sits close to the membrane, but most of the protein itself is not really in the membrane. But we frequently group those with membrane proteins anyway. There are these long chains you see here. There are usually sugars or so. They can be very important for other cells and molecules to recognize a cell. You have some yellow molecules in the bilayer here. Those are cholesterol. Cholesterol is technically lipid, but I suppose for lipid even, but it has slightly different properties. And in particular, it will cause the bilayer to become stiffer, which is very important for certain membranes, not all of them. You might have an individual alpha helix sticking around somewhere. I'm not sure maybe the red one is that. So some membrane proteins are so small that it's literally just one single alpha helix. In fact, most membrane proteins tend to be alpha helical. There are only a handful of beta sheet ones that I won't have time to talk about today. So there is a huge diversity here. There are glycoproteins on the surface. Very important on some viruses. There are oligosaccharides. Those are the sugars. And then you're seeing some sort of virus or something here wanting to recognize the membrane. So we're going to start by having a look at these components, but primarily only focus on the membrane proteins and what they do.


Everybody forced here ripping the three bucks MLB 2023 gilded and bowman sterling three bucks mixer number six random teams We're gonna randomize now, and then we'll rip. Good luck everybody. Thanks for joining four times three and one six box NBA mixer After baseball It's not like a set time right now the schedules kind of all over the place Names four times one two three and four Jack T down to Chris W and four times on the teams One two three and four Red Sox down to Mariners Jack T red Sox Matt M. Rays E and J Rangers Phil K guardians Chris H Mets John B. Cubs Craig K Yankees Paul M Royals Jeff T Braves Shin T with the Brewers Sean Z Giants Marlins Satoshi with the Dodgers Derek J J's White Sox Taylor R. Diamondbacks Jonathan W. Phillies Michael S. Nationals Wang S. Pirates Kale D A's Edward S. Rockies Craig K with the Reds Jonathan W. Padres Evan L twins E and J Orioles James P Astros Nick C Cardinals Angels Evan L Tigers Chris W with the Mariners Posted I'm gonna give you the link for the results I'll give you a schedule link as well the times are kind of off, but the order is mostly correct We're gonna go in order as much as possible. If something's full will jump some breaks So there's a scheduling as well. So we are gonna go in that order, but the times are just gonna be off So six bucks that we're gonna do gilded after this Then I would assume six box NBA number one goes then because the two boxers are feeling slower for some reason Although another spot did just come in so there's on a 14 now. What's up thermo? How you durin? Let's do it two sterlings then it's in a gilded. I'm feeling a super here. I really am feeling super in one of these boxes Don't know which product, but I'm feeling a super Pretty tired of not pulling super in fact What was the over-under on this game is I would have taken the under got a Magenta to 75 Mikey Romero Red Sox Mikey Followed by the first auto of the break for the pirates Jordana de los Santos Pirates here is gonna be Wang s Charters The Darius Davis the rookie all right coming up here refractor to 199 Joshua by as Cardinals and Sterling silver auto Jordan back to 100 Rockies Nice hit Rockies here. That's gonna be Edward s refractor rookie to 199 Gabler Moreno for the Diamondbacks and a base auto for the Angels Edgar Caro The Angels who's got the Angels Nick see with the Angels Gunner Henderson rookie Refractor to 199 Samuel Munoz Dodgers.  Oh It'll happen It'll happen speckle rookie to 99 Ezekiel Tovar for color color redo And an auto is Ricardo Cabrera for Cincinnati Sinsi Sinsi Sinsi that is Craig K Probably Steve's Can't lose to nobody that doesn't get used I Don't know if I'm gonna I'm kind of I'm kind of kind of worried. I want to make sure it's at least kind of decent before I buy it Got you Cody. That stinks man. Hope the recovery is good. Yeah That's gonna be me in a bit after breaking dude. I'm gonna have that Langaliers auto for the Rockies young kill Fernandez Rockies good break here so far Colorado Edward S Tired to record days. I think I did too. I'll probably get it and get get smoked and that would be it Refractor to 199 Zek Neto Angels and the auto is gonna be on Bioris Tavares for Atlanta Jeff tea with Atlanta. It's called magic this year base auto rain Don Cone for the Dodgers Satoshi with the Dodgers Part of the video games. Yep. Oh Man, I got sneeze Card dust and no joke you guys No mess around the car God forever, man Here's a link for iMac mosaic choice plates mixer guys 26 to go Pretty wild mixer there You need a piece of gaming saved your wrists you think No, that's fine. Oppo. I didn't get last year's game I just want to play the the modern warfare two maps again. Honestly. That was my heyday back in my day Angels another auto here Zach Neto. I should know who hasn't my now.  I legit think imagine going to the playoffs Like they just look good man. They're playing team ball to Speckle to 99 rookie Garrett Mitchell for the Brewers and auto Manuel Beltray blue Jays blue Jays Derek J All right gilded all right, I did call super so it's got to be in this box then That's how that works That's legit the only reason I'm getting the game So anyone criticizing them for just bringing back the new maps rehashing it monetarily. It's gonna make sense for Because everybody that's my age is gonna be like that's what I played. I gotta get the game That is what for tonight just did they were like brought back the new old maps that dude There's a queue every every time that isn't like late late night or early morning Like there's a queue to get in the game like today. It was like 11 a.m. On a week day Yeah, I had to wait two and a half minutes to get in the game.  All right Cardinals rookie Matthew Lieber toward a 99 got a Ray wave Nolan Ryan angels that 25 angels having a great break I don't see a super. I don't see a super. I was wrong guys. I'm sorry Yellow rookie Otto Shay Langeliers for the A's. That's a good one there for the A's Oakland kale there you go kale kale The 75 and a wave rookie Osvaldo Cabrera to 75 for New York the Yankees And framed auto at a 50 Pudge for the Marlins Nice Yvonne Rodriguez going to the Miami Marlins Sean Z Marlins actually do something to get better make the playoffs next year. I Mean they got close Yeah, I hear that for sure oppo. No, I totally get that. I'm sorry jam W Good start for the Mavericks is half then Turn over not not great not great falling part Numbered card Zack netto Samuel Munoz Gabriel Moreno Joshua Bayez Matthew Lieber tour Ezekiel Tovar Garrett Mitchell Osvaldo Cabrera Mikey Romero Nolan Ryan Manuel Beltre on the auto as well as Zack netto rain Don cone Ambiores Tavares young kill Fernandez Riccardo Cabrera Nelson Rada Edgar Cairo your down to the Los Santos Jordan Beck Shay Langeliers and Pudge Rodriguez It's not the best mixer some teams. It's super well though. Thank you for joining everybody gilded case up next


Hello and welcome to SIB in CircoTalk on the MHC Motif Atlas. I'm Daniel Tadros, a PhD student at David Feller Group of Computational Cancer Biology Lab, and we will be introducing you to a new database of MHC bandic specificities and likings. It is based on the recent publication and website developed by our lab, and before starting the talk, I would like to thank Simon, who is the main architect of the website for his contribution in this project. The target audience for this talk are researchers interested in immunology, cancer immunotherapy, vaccine development, and machine learning. First, I would like to introduce you to the main step of the interaction between infected and T-cells. The T-cell activation is governed by two main steps, the antigen presentation pathway, where the protein gets degraded by the proteasome into peptide. This peptide gets then transported into the ER via TAP, which some of them bind to the MRC molecules, which is the most selective step in this process. And then the peptide MRC complex is presented at the cell surface for GCR recognition. That's why MRC likings are considered as promising therapeutic targets that have been widely used in preclinical and clinical studies. For instance, in cancer immunotherapy, MRC likings have been used as personalized vaccine to boost the immune system to recognize neo-antigen. In addition, studying the presentation pathway of these likings help us to better understand the disease and the clinical process required to fight against it. There are two clusters of MRC molecules. The MRC class one are recognized by CD8 T-cells, bind short peptides roughly between 8 to 14 residues, and the likings primary anchors are at the second and last positions. And for the class two, they are recognized by CD4 T-cells, bind longer and wider range of peptides roughly between 12 and 25 residues. However, the likings have a fixed binding core of nine amino acids. In addition to the different characteristics between MRC class one and two, MRC one and two genes show a very high degree of polymorphism, and thousands of different alleles have been documented. However, only a few hundred alleles with available likings. As a result of this polymorphism, different alleles show different binding specificities and bind different repertoires of likings. So many researchers capitalize on large MRC data sets to train machine learning tools to predict MRC likings that could be recognized by T-cells. Over the last decade, vast spectrometry-based MRC likings data have become the dominant source of information about MRC binding specificities. These data enable researchers to determine binding motives for hundreds of MRC alleles. Here's an example of a binding motive of an allele. This is a list of likings of same lengths. We can clearly see the binding specificity of this allele at position two and nine. However, MRC liking prediction tools are often used as black boxes and do not necessarily provide explanation on why a peptide gets a good or a bad score. So to facilitate the understanding of the main binding properties of MRC molecules, we present here the MRC motive atlas or an intuitive visualization of MRC binding properties and a way to interpret the MRC liking predictors' results. Here's an example of the binding specificity of an MRC class one allele. We provide a binding motive for each peptide length separately as we can see there is a high similarity in the binding anchors between different lengths. We also provide the peptide length distribution of the allele and we can see there's a high preference of peptide of length nine. Also when it's available, we provide different binding mode of the allele. We can see for example the arginine can only be in position three or six but not in both positions at the same time. And finally the motive of the phosphorylitic ligands when it's available presented in purple. Similarly for MRC class two as previously mentioned MRC two alleles bind to long peptide but with fixed binding core of nine acid. We also provide the petal length distribution for the allele and we can see there's a high preference of peptide with length 15. And when it's available provide different binding mode for the allele we can see for example the arginine and lysine can only bind in position four or six but not in both positions at the same time as it's shown in the first motion. Here is a summary of what we provide on the MRC motive atlas. We collected more than 500 samples from different species that resulted into more than one million ligands interacting with few hundreds of MRC one and two molecules. We provide thousands of predicted MRC binding motives based on our MRC motive predictors of class one and class two. We also provide direct links to MRC x-ray structures and list of MRC sequence available in our database. So now let's have a look of the web interface of our motive atlas. Here's the home page for the MRC motive atlas. We have four main pages the class MRC class one, class two, tools for different predictions and the frequently asked questions page. So let's explore class one. As you can see here you can explore different binding motive for different lengths for example also for multiple specificities, phosphorylated ligands and you can download a list of the unmodified ligands or phosphorylated ligands for this specific allele. You can also check direct links for the PDB structures for this allele with different ligands. What's also interesting in this page that you can only compare different alleles at the same time which is really interesting in our exploration of the binding specificity for different alleles. And here you can also download all the available data for class one from unmodified to phosphorylated ligands both of them MRC sequence and the x-ray structures. Now let's go for class two alleles. Similarly as class one you can see the multiple specificities. You can also compare between different alleles at the same at the same time. But in addition we provide an extra page for common properties between class two alleles that can help you to better understand the binding specificity for class two alleles. As for the tools page we provide direct links for different predictors for example MRC lightning predictor for class one and class two, image elasticity predictors, MRC motif deconclusion tools and the direct links for the MRC lagging databases. So if you have more clarification you can also check the frequency ask question. With that I want to conclude this talk by first thanking David for this exciting project and Cimo and Julien for all their effort and contribution in this project and you for taking the time to watch this video.