The talk is entitled Truly Cartless, Jackpotting an ATM using auxiliary devices by Olga Koshetova and Alexei Ozipov. Good evening, my name is Damran Herin. Hello everyone. Thanks for waiting the tune right here in the biggest place in my life, not in some other places. Today we are going to describe some new ways that allows you, not you, bad guys, to eject money from the ATM without touching them, for example, let's say just through the air. I am previously Olga Koshetova, but now I changed my family name and he is Alexei Ozipov. We are the part of security assessment team of Casper's Club and all of the things that we provide today and that we usually put in our presentations, we collect through our everyday work, using our ATM security assessment, penetration testing, forensic investigation and of course, if we have enough time, we do some researches and we try to improve ATM security around the world, but sometimes we are not successful, unfortunately. So let's refresh your memories about ATM. You should remember from previous talks that ATM is just ordinary computer, looks like your home computer, but this particular box consists of various devices that interact with consumers such as keyboard, sorry, pin pad, touch screen, some buttons, card reader and devices to interact with cash, such as dispenser, cash recycler, cash in module and so on, etc., etc. And let's concentrate on interfaces that are using inside the ATM. There are plenty of various connectors and ports. Sometimes we are pretty surprising when we discovered some unusual interfaces inside the ATM, but the most common is RS-232 or RS-485 and of course, USB and the problem with USB is that these connectors, this bus is pretty common around the world and devices connected to the PC through the USB and of course, technicians also use free USB to put flash drive to install some new malware or some new software, it doesn't matter. Some antennas, GSM models can also connect it to ATM PC through USB ports and sometimes these USB cables might be discovered outside the USB. You might know that USB classes are pretty familiar with every guys who are developers or reverse engineers and there are plenty of various classes described in libraries and the most common for ATM is human interface device and vendor specific. Human interface device, it's usually pin pad, card reader, let's say input-output devices and speaking about vendor specific communication, description, vendor might develop some strange things and use the description to communicate, for example, with dispenser or with other devices inside the ATM. But let's continue with human interface device. You might understand that human interface device, it's just a keyboard or mouse and it's typically plug and place device. You just put something with USB and driver will automatically install and this device will ready for use. When we discovered that pretty small devices like Tinsia might be used as a keyboard, it was five or six years ago. We created proof of concept video and came to some big companies that are related to ATM in Russia and they were pretty upset about what we discovered and asked us to not disclose this information for the public until this year. But we can discuss this in some, let's say, private conversation or private meetings. But now we are going to show you finally what we can do with Tinsia using it in the ATM. Here is our demo that we reproduced in our testbed but it's real cases in some banks in the wild. Some devices that are interconnected to USB might be installed for the maintenance or something and their USB cables are available to other connection, other communication. We obtain the, not we, attacker. Attacker obtain access to USB, connect Tinsia especially with special code and this code helped to bypass QSC mode on the ATM and run malware, just executable file from QR. There will be no logs on the ATM journal because it's just something that looks like putting some letters through a keyboard. These cases are very hard to investigation. And about 20 seconds is enough to eject portion of money up to 40 bank notes from the ATM just using Tinsia. There are other kinds of devices that has more memory, different features, for example, remote control or some other kinds of malicious activity like USB cables that are not actually cables but also kind of Tinsia device, you can buy them for 40 bucks or 100 bucks, it doesn't matter and they pretty much do the same thing. You up full scale something as a legitimate device and the technician use it to install it into the ATM machine. And in this case, you just connect it to the devices. But there are also another kinds of devices that are already connected and already used. And for example, for example, technician need to maintenance this kind of ATM machine. It's through the whole ATM with no external cables, no nothing. Or maybe there is cute kitten on the ATM machine that technician don't want to disturb and because he loves kittens. Sometimes to actually access these cables, you need to go into ATM machine and do some stuff inside of it and it's kind of messy, it's kind of giving me problems.  We will use the wireless keyboards. Unfortunately, it's the general idea in some banks and in some companies that they can use single dongle that is connected to the ATM machine and conduct different activities on the ATM machines. And it's kind of scary because there are different kinds of research that affected these kind of devices, wireless devices. For example, mouse jacking attack that affects NRF 2.1 chip. This chip is excellent. It's very cheap. It's used everywhere and it doesn't provide any security. The customer or the vendor should implement their own crypto inside these devices and protect the customers against malicious modification. And there's also devices from the great scot gadgets that use Bluetooth communication and affect this kind of communication in the malicious way. What are needed to affect ATM machine? We just need to go to these couple of sites, download the GitHub versions of the exploits, use dongle that is used, for example, for quadracopters or the original dongle that are used by company Logitech, and do some malicious stuff. Here's typical setup. We just use ordinary Android phone and connect our dongle to this cable and leave it nearby the ATM machine. Next time the genuin technician goes to this ATM machine, he will use his little keyboard to do some stuff and leave it away. But near the ATM machine will be something that obtains the address of this keyboard or even mouse. Here's one more proof-of-concept video that we produced. As Alexei mentioned, we used mouse jack tool to identify the address of this dongle. And when we obtain this address, we connect it to this dongle and send specially prepared comments to the ATM. And it might be malware from remote share, or we can put some comments to eject money from the ATM just using this communication with dongle like ordinary keyboard. And after some times, we will get the money. This unauthorized cash-out typically takes about 40 seconds to eject a portion up to 40 banknotes from the ATM, and we can repeat it again and again until all ATM with such kind of dongles will be empty. And the sponsor of this video is Logitech, who uses excellent devices that can be used by anyone, for technician uses or for the customer uses, and they are excellent in both ways because we can create this video, but they also kind of consider the problems that they are facing and the newer versions of this dongle or the newer firmware that can be installed on these kind of devices are actually protected from the malicious behavior. And it's pretty much excellent because the community that found problem identified the solution and the solution was implemented on the devices. Everyone wins. There are also other flavors of devices that are already mentioned. There is Bluetooth keyboards or some radio keyboards that can be used. And a couple of days ago there was someone in the Twitter who made a video with intercepting the communication of his keyboard that is completely in the plain text, and the general idea about the wireless keyboards in ATM machines is that ATMs are actually unattended devices. They stay there and most of the time they are not used by customers and malicious guy can actually do everything with it through the keyboard and through the mouse remotely and see if someone gots to the ATM machine he just press alt-tab and return to the original behavior of ATM machine. It's excellent for research, but I don't advise you to do it because, yes, you can obtain different fancy devices that intercept wireless communications. They can sniff nearby devices. And actually, if you speak about the wireless keyboards there is also another kind of devices that is pretty much scary because some years ago there was an investigation in Mexico by Brian Krabs about the Bluetooth sniffers that were used in the gas pumps. And these kind of devices can also be detected with the Bluetooth devices. And if you see something in the air near the ATM machine please do send some kind of message to the bank because sometimes it's actually malicious activity and it's not only about fancy videos and fancy devices. And if ATM technicians somewhere here please stop using wireless keyboard. But let's continue with the other part. It is pretty upset when you should pay for taxes or buy tickets and pay some money again. And that feeling that you should input some tons of numbers and letters to pay something in ATM. But this problem when some people, consumers should spend a lot of time to enter in the numbers and make an error and do it again and again. Now some ATMs consist of barcode readers to collect all the information about your payments or about your tickets, taxes, and doesn't matter from the barcodes or from the QR codes, 1D codes or 2D codes. And in some banks already implemented the feature when consumer might create some special barcode inside the mobile application and withdraw money without cards. This presentation without mention of Bitcoins it's not good presentation so this ATM for Bitcoins also use barcodes. Barcodes are everywhere. For example here in the Kauz Communication Congress plenty of barcodes and even on toilet walls don't ask how I found these barcodes. And if you want to buy some stuff, for example Club Mate in convenience store, typically cashier use the barcode installed on the cash desk and put some stuff to this barcode reader to enter the information about this stuff to the program. Thanks for Chinese guys from Tencent Xlub when they discovered this funny story about how to bypass cashier and put some specially create QR codes and download and execute application. There are plenty of codes and plenty of possibilities to eject control cable inputs to the barcode or put some information. There are plenty of ways but we prepare one more video when we create special barcodes and put it on the Kindle to bypass Kiosk mode on the ATM and make some piece of magic from remote share again. There will be no logs again inside the ATM journals because it looks like some letters, some numbers of your input from the keyboard and if banks will try to understand what happened, they just should understand that in logs there will be some strange situation when a barcode reader looks like keyboard. Typically barcode reader in ATM connected to the PC through COM or USB ports and on the other end of the cable is port looks like VGA but we had some strange and maybe let's say protected ATM when the USB cable was cut it up and couple of hours to soldering the new cable and we had the right way and proper way to eject money from the ATM when I mentioned the previous video. The original research involves some reconfiguring of the barcode reader or using the codes that are inside of the barcode reader already and we came up with the simple phasing idea to use it against any barcode that is out there just enable it somehow, for example, pay for something or do something, use the code 128 barcode with special symbol FNC3 at the start and actually barcode readers are beeping and if it beeps the wrong way it seems that this code is accepted. Sometimes in the original research it's also mentioned that most of barcode readers are using the USB cables but this particular one wasn't using it and we should rewire it but during our assessments we have seen barcode readers that are already in keyboard mode with the USB connection and send some symbols that are not printed ones and they actually do some interesting stuff with the reader itself for example it uses different function buttons it's using different special combinations of buttons like control-delete and so on and of course do it responsibly and don't do it at the congress because we are all using barcodes and sometimes they also can be affected that was about the barcodes and we were speaking also about the migration from Windows XP to Windows 7 that were during the previous years and we prepared some small comparison like the problems that were facing by Windows XP and Windows 7 that were not used for a long time for example Windows 7 were implemented only two years ago or one year ago on ATM machines we have some nice vulnerabilities in Windows XP like MS 08067 and we actually haven't seen the fully patched system or fully patched ATM system with Windows XP the same problem goes with Windows 7 we have nice vulnerability MS 1710 that can actually be exploited by the remote user and we also haven't seen the fully patched ATM system but yay they immigrated to Windows 7 and for example these are the data from the ATM assessment and the screenshots are the forensic investigation of one ATM machines that were affected by WannaCry virus that were affecting different kinds of devices and it doesn't matter if it was Swift or if it was ordinary home system or if it was ATM machine we have also seen the shift from the IPv4 to IPv6 unfortunately who uses IPv6 and in the internet there are some sites that are already implemented in it but in the networks everyone uses IPv6 because the new operating systems don't enable it and no one uses it but malicious guys can actually abuse the firewalling rules that allow anyone to use this communication in the wrong way PowerShell is excellent because for a couple of years it was not detected by anyone it was like a silver key to any system if we have faced the Windows 7 we can do some great stuff like Mimicads or DL injection, get strokes, anything unfortunately the honeymoon was over and here's the current detection of the problems of the malware that is using PowerShell with ATM machines it's much more easier because you can use code from the MSDN or different sites that provide default code to interact with comports or interact with libraries and often this type of communication is legitimate and often it is used by the original software but the malicious guy can issue the common dispense all the money from the ATM machine with PowerShell it's only a few key strokes and it's actually very easy to use it with QR codes or with different external keyboards but for not a conclusion there are different kinds of devices that are already there and we have investigated some of them and most of them we haven't spoken about touch screens because they are obviously another point of entry to the ATM machines there are different NFC readers that also can be affected and so on and so forth we are metric devices that we have spoken to years ago this very same conference and I think there is a solution against the problems with the iris you can just close your eyes and don't use them we are thankful for community because of the gadgets that were created and they are very helpful for us and very helpful for you to analyzing what communications are there and it's also another point that we haven't spoken to today that you can actually abuse the drivers that are used by the ATM machine because vendor-specific it's defender-specific it's like the SCID systems or different ICS systems the data that is transmitted can be brought through errors or some problems and you can exchange all these two devices with single radio that was provided by the congress or at the camp it's awesome device that actually implements both the phase sensor capabilities radio capabilities and you can do everything with it and abuse different activities we are very thankful for the older researchers that are there who have given us the inspiration to use something against ATM machines we are thankful for the congress for the excellent devices, excellent communication because some of our ideas are brought from the people and we are thankful for everyone who is attending and there are different kinds of devices that can be accessed remotely but there is also a possibility to just cut a hole in the ATM machine and we are thankful vendors who provide us with the work that we are doing security is the process and I hope that we are making ATMs better and we are trying to do our best to help the community and there is something that could do it cheaper thank you everyone if you have any questions please ask thank you Olga, thank you Alex for sharing your impressive work I hope we have some questions I see over there microphone 3 please hi so you looked at wireless keyboards and mice and stuff like that but did you look at wireless cards like NFC? yes we have analyzed some of the devices that NFC readers but unfortunately we can't speak about them right now because we are in the process of communicating with vendor to fix these vulnerabilities because the problems that we have shown on the slides are actually already known and we try to drive attention to these problems because they do exist right now they are here for 2, 3, 4 years and the motto of this congress is remembering refreshing memories and we try to refresh memories not only for vendors but also for the people who are using ATMs we have also questions from the internet, my signal angel the internet wants to know how you did at hardware to test the stuff on can we get the hardware? yes actually you can buy it from ebay it's cheaper than sand in matter of the ATM machine because for example you can buy the old servers that were very pricey at the time and now they are sold for 1,000 euros and for the ATM machines it's actually the same the most expensive part of ATM machine it's actually the safe and you don't need the safe to conduct research microphone 1 please yes, will you be releasing any of the code that was done for your testing? I'm asking for a friend good job your friend can speak to my friend ok, another question from the internet yes, the internet wants to know regarding the remote attacks so did you have access to the bank network or something and how do you figure out what you actually need to do? we actually bought the ATM machines for our test bed and we are analyzing it in our spare time and we also communicating with banks and providing services from them for them to understand what problems they are facing so yes, we are communicating with real banks and real ATM machines and another one from the internet yes, the internet wants to know for one of the remote radio things if it's 27 megahertz technique like karaoke yes, there are keyboards that are using 27 megahertz to communicate with the dongle and this communication is generally affected ok, over there, microphone 5 I guess have you tested this in the wild? we are testing assessments so I don't advise you to test it in the wild and as for the market readers we are trying to test them for example in the different shops or different vending machines to analyze if it's possible to send them the control codes so sometimes, maybe another one from the internet ok, do you know why most ATMs run Windows instead of Linux with maybe it's not as vulnerable to malware and other vulnerabilities? yes, it's an excellent question that is asked every time that we are giving presentations unfortunately, there is a legacy code that is used only on the Windows machines and unfortunately, the vendors of the devices inside the ATM machines they don't disclose the specifications of their devices and there is no easy possibility for the Linux to use these kind of devices but when we get to the ATM machines we actually reboot them into the Linux and use Python to interact with them it's generally possible, but it's not done because of the legacy ok, I don't see any more questions so let's thank the speakers again


After a 7 year reign, Netflix's The Crown is coming to an end and we now have the official trailer for the final season. Join me today as I break down the trailer, plot details, promotional posters and screenshots of the new season. Now I'm bringing you weekly videos covering the best and worst of movies and television and delivering it straight to your subscription feed, so to stay up to date and support the channel be sure to hit that like button, subscribe and ring that bell to not miss a single thing. The recent promos have confirmed that season 6 would be broken up into two parts, with release date spaced less than a month away from each other. At this stage we're all aware that the primary focus of this season, at least for part 1, will be the death of Princess Diana, so it makes sense that she's front and centre for this trailer. Now the title of the trailer confirms this is just promoting part 1, so it is reasonable to believe that we're only being shown footage from the first few episodes, with the trailer for part 2 expected to drop shortly after part 1 premieres. Season 5 ended its events in 1997 and season 6 will pick up right where it left off, so the timeframe where the show is up to does not leave much time before the tragedy, so it's unlikely Diana will be a part of the later episodes. But let's go through the trailer, so it opens immediately where season 5 ended, with Diana holidaying across many locations including the Mediterranean where these iconic images were taken by the press, who obviously are being more intrusive on the princess than ever, and as the Queen has told, this is not expected to go away anytime soon. I must comment on how well they do selecting the music for these trailers, last year they used to cover a bittersweet symphony and hear Mad World, both encapsulating these moments in time perfectly. The Queen at this stage is just wanting to distance herself after the divorce and obviously having such a public face tied to the royal family is not smiled upon by its members. Aside from her holidaying, we also get a brief glance at the princess in protective gear, which is a reference to her work clearing land mines across the world. This period in the 90s was an ever increasing pressure cooker of events, and I feel the show will have a constant build in tension, which will culminate in the note being gifted to Diana asking if she wants to go to Paris, the beginning of the end. And for those that are familiar with the events of that night, this outfit she is wearing is just moments before her death. That shot of the exterior of Windsor Castle's lights all turning on as the tragic news spreads is so haunting, and it gives me immediate chills. I feel like this moment in the show will be more impactful than really anything we've seen on the show so far. We then see how the palace handles the news, and the public scrutiny they received for their initial silence, followed by statements which came across cold and impersonal. And these events, I assume, will take us to the end of part one, with the Queen then stepping back into the spotlight to lead the series to its conclusion. I don't know if this is just wishful thinking, but the way they are promoting the season with all three queens, not just in the teaser, but also now the poster, I think we may be getting more than just a cameo of the previous queens, and will instead be treated to full length scenes to flesh out and give further backstory to what Staunton's Queen Elizabeth is experiencing. With this trailer came accompanying screenshots from the Netflix website showing a bunch of close ups with meaningful expressions, a foreboding glance at what is to come. A short while ago, Netflix also released this teaser image of the program for King Charles and Queen Camilla's wedding, which occurred in 2005. Considering the current heads of the royal family, I guess this will be a fitting end to the dramatization. It is being reported that season 6 will be made up of ten episodes, with part one consisting of four episodes on November 16, and the remaining six for part two on December 14. But what historic events are you most looking forward to seeing portrayed in the show before the final curtain closes? I'd love to hear what you think, so let me know, I'll be down there in the comments. You can also see what I'm watching by following me on TikTok, Twitter and Letterbox, which are all linked in the description. But if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe for weekly videos covering the best and worst of movies, television and pop culture. This is Matt Rodgers, and that is all.


Now we come to endurance, basically endurance is how much time you spend in the air. So this is again another small graphic which shows from climb at the end of climb till before descents, whatever time you spend that is called as the, so let us see a short film about an aircraft that. This is the Voyager, holder of the last major first in atmospheric flight. In just over nine days in December 1986, it flew around the world non-stop and unrefueled. It was the brainchild of brilliant California aircraft designer Burt Rutan and was built and flown by his brother Dick and Gina Jaeger. It was a unique design, extremely light with vast fuel capacity. For the first part of the flight it ran with two engines and then when enough fuel was burnt off to reduce the weight, the front engine was shut down. The story of Voyager is a story of great courage, ingenuity and determination. It's a story of three people and their friends, setting out to do what had never been done before in the face of immense difficulty. They noticed they flew non-stop for nine days. So they were so particular regarding reducing weight that the toothbrush that they took, they broke it off and said that we do not need the rear portion or the toothbrush, we can hold it with our fingers. My question is why toothbrush? So that is a different situation. So many IT Bombay students are champions in reducing weight. Now one very interesting thing happened when they were trying to take off and that is the wing actually hit the ground because 76% of the aircraft was fuel. In a typical aircraft approximately 20% of the aircraft is fuel and remaining is W1. In Voyager it is the opposite, 76% of the aircraft is fuel. So the wings were like this during takeoff, just a few inches above the ground and only during the, so I'll show you a very short video, we don't have time, this is a very long video but it's an amazing video. So the designer is Bert Rutan. He is sitting in an aircraft and shooting this film and he is going to take off and follow them for the first 4 hours. And you just listen to the conversation, it is amazing. Bert Rutan knows that this aircraft is safe after 61 knots, that is the lift of speed. So he tells the pilot, I just want to hear 61 knots because that means you are going to be airborne. The takeoff roll begins. Takeoff speed is around 90 knots and the speed of 100 knots is critical for Voyager to climb with the full fuel load. Gina Jaeger caused off the speed and the distance covered down the runway. As the airplane started to move down the runway, I didn't know if it was controllable, I didn't know for sure whether it could get off in that much runway, I didn't know whether the landing gear would take the banging of the ruts in the concrete at that weight. At first everything is fine, but then the fuel laden wingtips begin to literally fly downwards and scrape on the runway surface. Listen to her, I need to hear her. I need to hear 61 knots there, how are we doing? What do you say, I need to hear 61 knots. There is confusion. Neither Dick nor Gina realize what is happening to the wingtips. I don't want to ever thought that it would drive itself down into the ground like it did and it was terrifying watching the wings grind away, knowing there was fuel right at the wingtips almost. It was so frightening and hearing Gina's voice come out, she was counting for 100 yards as they were going and it was just this real steady, almost monotone voice that I was thinking to myself, how can she do this, unbelievable. You can see the lift on the wings, now lifting the wing literally. See the flexing of the wing. The thrill of seeing the wings finally lift and then finally bend and then lift off, wow. And then the magic 100 knots is reached. All right, so that is again for you the record on Voyager, but then of course it has been broken by so many other people. Now let's look at another very recent record on endurance. This is on UAV now. This is the research UAV from ETH Zurich. So again, in the interest of time, I am just going to show you. Look at that, this is the hours. This was in 2015. The aircraft has been flying nonstop for 12 hours 40 minutes. The battery is 89 percent. Now they enter the night flight, coming into land autonomously. So this is a world record for an aircraft less than 50 kilograms of weight, flew for more than 81 hours nonstop on autonomous flight. So that is the current world record for endurance. So just like we have the range equation, we have the endurance equation which is also very similar. Again DT is equal to DWF by C transpose T. But now we do not bring in RV infinity into that. We just go to this T integrated. Then there are some conditions which I will leave you for self-study that talk about. This is not the interesting part. This is the TDS calculation part. But look at the endurance equation. It has eta P cl3 by 2 by CD. We have always been saying that the propeller aircraft has a maximum endurance when cl3 by 2 by CD is maximum. This is the proof of that in the calculations. So to maximize of course, just maximize these things and minimize the thing on the bottom. So condition comes for propeller aircraft. I am going to rush through this. This also you know because we have already derived it. For jet engine aircraft, it is a simple equation. 1 by C L by D log of weight ratio. So the same expression. So the expression for maximum range for turboprops is similar to the equation for maximum endurance for turbojet system. So same conditions are applicable. And finally if you look at the comparison, there are these four speeds. There is one speed, number one at which power is minimum. Therefore endurance is maximum for a prop. There is another speed at which drag is minimum. That will give you the maximum range for props and maximum endurance for jets. Point number 3 is the same. Point number 4 will be the range for jets to be maximum. Okay. Now wind is going to make a big difference. So let us see effect of wind. So the conditions are the same. Same equations are there. But now you have to replace the value of V with ground speed. So if there is a headwind, okay, then the ground speed will be the actual speed plus the tailwind. If there is a tailwind, sorry. And if there is a headwind, then it will be the opposite. So the ground speed is going to be true airspeed plus tailwind or true airspeed minus headwind. Minus because it is opposite direction. So that is it. You just replace the equations and you will get the expressions. So this will be the same range expression but Vg will now be V plus Vt. Similarly for turboprops and piston props. So tailwind is going to always give you an increase in the range. That is what we saw in the picture also earlier where you can get much more range because of tailwind. So this is a summary. So in summary L by D maximum CL root CL by CD maximum, L by D maximum for endurance, L by D maximum for range and CL 3 by 2 by CD. So there are three conditions. L by D max CL root CL by CD max and CL power 3 by 2 by CD max. So L by D max gives you maximum endurance for jet maximum range for props. CL 3 by 2 by CD max gives you the value of maximum range for maximum endurance for propeller aircraft. And root CL by CD gives you maximum range for the jet aircraft. So this is a summary. Again the same thing I have shown here. So in the next class we are going to look at takeoff and landing.


On the breakfast, vandalism of Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation NMPC-limited depot responsible for petroscursity in parts of the country. Also on the breakfast, members of the Academic Staff Union of Universities asked who paid November's salary in four eight months of arraias withheld. We'll ask them back on another industrial action. And don't forget, we'll also be looking through today's newspapers and analyzing the biggest stories of the day. Well, let me say a compliment of the season. Welcome to a brand new day. It's the very first day in the month of December and it's the breakfast. I am Messier Boko. It promises to be another great day with exciting conversation lineup of it. As always, we start off with our top trending. That's issues that have gotten a lot of Nigerians reacting, engaging in different strata, be it social media, offline and what have you. Now, one of that is that the Nigerian National Petroleum Company, NMPC-limited, has finally provided the reason for the recent fuel scarcity being experienced in Lagos, Abuja and other parts of the country. Now, according to the NMPC, the blame fuel scarcity, because I've been very curious and I'm sure that if you're curious why there's been petrol scarcity, I'm sure that you have an answer now. Whether or not this is something to go by, it's another conversation entirely. So the NMPC says that fuel scarcity and long queues at filling station on some road, we can actually blame that on some of the road projects and constructions that you have going on, especially in Lagos. And in other parts of the state, I'm trying to wrap my head around that. He said that the gridlock is easing as NMPC has programmed vessels and trucks to constrain depots with massive loads out from depots of various states being closely monitored. Now, it might also interest you to know that sometime the oil marketer's association of Nigeria had talked about the fact that Nigeria should be ready to buy this product at any price. And that's because of the cost of transporting it. They were going to add an additional 13 naira, the cost of transporting the product to the different locations. And so it might also be expensive and what have you. Another is that the same major oil marketer's association of Nigeria had a few days ago mentioned and said that they were working with the NMPC to improve the distribution of petrol across the country. They said that their members would be working late night during the weekend to bridge the product supply gaps and push out more products than it should have been. Normally these were some of the reactions for all marketers and what have you. Now an NMPC also said that they have a national petrol stock of over 2 billion litres, which is equivalent to over 30 days of sufficiency. And the big question is why is there still scarcity? Now with the reason that the NMPC has given, do you want to ask yourself if that's something to go by really? Because fioscarcity has become a normal practice, an event in Nigeria. It seemed to be something that has become part of our system and it's normal to just have fioscarcity, but it's really stressful and very saddening. And for the queues from my observation around some parts of Lagos, I don't think that it's the construction that's the problem. Now I have seen several filling stations that are shut down entirely. You don't have any sign of anything going on, no human being whatsoever. Some of these filling stations are across some cities, especially in Lagos and not even selling. And you see the queue, for instance this morning, I saw a very long queue and that queue is not because of the construction, because at the time you can't even find any construction what's going on. People are queuing up to buy petrol because they are hoping that this filling station would be open so they can get the product. I'm just really wondering how that is a problem. It's very unfortunate. For a country that's an oil producing country, for a country as Nigeria, we have all it takes to refine our products and what a view. And then you have the NNPC giving this excuse. I really don't know how that valid is, especially when you have the oil market as a society. You have the major oil market as complaining of the cost of landing and also the cost of buying and also the fact that they're also working to project and put out this product out there. It costs a lot of concern. If we have this amount of petrol or fuel, two billion litres of it, how come we still have the issue of scarcity? And is it really true that we're experiencing the scarcity because of the construction work? Because whenever you have all of the queues, it's because people are queuing to buy petrol in different filling stations. And in most cases you don't have a lot of them selling. And so it's a lot to grapple with. But I really don't know if the government and those who are stakeholders understand the pain that the people have to go through. The fact that the cost of transportation will be on the high. And you don't even want to compare that to the fact that the current reality of the people in terms of salary and revenue, it's also on the increase. And so it makes it quite difficult. It makes life very stressful and very difficult for a lot of persons. But what exactly is going on? Why do we constantly have fears? Especially when we're in this period, it's the first period, it's the first of December. It feels like it's a trend, it feels like it's a pattern. Now on the other hand, you have the market is saying, well, we're not hoarding the product because that's the blame. People are saying it's usually because there's need to maximize profit. And so you have stakeholders hoarding this product so they can actually maximize profit. You know, the detriment of who? The common man. Very sad and unfortunate. Away from that, there's also another picture that made it another conversation that's on our top trending. There's a Photoshop picture of Tunable, Bolatunable on a card see visit to US President Joe Biden that surfaced online. I'd like to read a tweet, how he, you know, the tweet that generated that controversy. So it came from a handle, Kennedy Non-So, at Kennedy Non-So too. That's the Twitter handle that said, happening now at official bat on card see visa to US President Joe Biden. As part of his US international agreements or engagement. And he said, Obediots say Tunable cannot visit US based on his indictment. He cannot visit the United States based on his indictment. He's there right now, live with US President and let your be visited too. He also went on to say more people. There's a lot that goes on on this, you know, space, especially Twitter.  So don't forget that Nigerians are very smart people. Don't forget that we have very, very intelligent people and people who are very sweet with the Internet and understand the dynamics of, you know, things. So when you think that you can deceive the people, there was immediately a sudden reaction as regards to the fact that this is not, this is a Photoshop picture. And this actually is not true because this didn't happen. So it was Photoshopped from the original picture where you have a certain person who visited Joe Biden. And that's what you can see. And if you look at it really, you don't even need to be an expert. You will see that it's probably very Photoshopped. You don't know what's going on, but we have a lot of work to do when it comes to the issue of disinformation in our space. Quite unfortunate. And then the same Twitter handle, Kennedy, he had to switch grounds. He said that, oh, this is actually the handiwork of a certain supporter of a certain candidate. That's of course the obedient. And that was the thought. But if you'd like to check that out, I'm sure you can check the, you know, the handle Kennedy Non-Soul on Twitter and you'll see all of the reactions and comment. And that's so much we can take this morning on a top trending. We take a break and when we return a bit of time for us to go through, you know, the front pages of National Dailies, we'll call it off the press. Please stay with us.


I just wanted to make sure that our random draw picker was working correctly so it took a bit of time to ensure na tama naman siya. But yes, this is the live draw for the APNX C1. So we actually have two contests this Christmas. One of them is sponsored by APNX so it's a gorgeous mid-tower case.   So I saw a comment although I think it was on the other contest saying na pang Philippines lang siya. Actually it's not true. You can be anywhere in the world but the address that you want your price to be shipped to needs to be within the Philippines. Saap Luigi, saap Rhapsody, saap Paul Dredd like one, saap Ren. Logans there. I mean he's literally inside the house, stinks a lot, has a problem pooping. Saap Alessandro, JB. So I do apologize for being late. I had to make sure na the thing was working. We've actually done this kind of mechanism before where you can have multiple chances of winning. So like say Anton, Anton can't register to win the contest more than once but I can do things that will earn me more chances to win. And then for this particular case ang APNXC1 video or APNXC1 giveaway, the extra thing that you can do is to share the video. So I just want to point out that we do have another contest. So sarado na ito. The last day to enter for this contest was December 23. But our gaming rig giveaway is still open plus andaming secondary prices noon. We're giving GPUs, AIOs, CPU coolers, air coolers, other cases. We're giving a bunch of stuff away along with the gaming rig giveaway. So let me just get the, I'll post the link dito. At nito, we arrest kula nga sa tulog. Like my kids kept me up until 4, 3.30 a.m. kanina. It's not like they're too young to kind of really understand anong Santa. It's just that they were, I don't know, they were really hyped up and we all sleep in the same room. So one wasn't sleepy and the other one doesn't become sleepy.  Like, you know, to their mom and me. It's like, oh God, I want to sleep already but the kids are still running around. So we slept at like 3.30 last night. I was like, oh and kula pa may sa tulog and then we're going to go watch Disney on Ice later. So I really do need to sleep. So it's kind of like, it's kind of like a harass Christmas but Merry Christmas to everyone. I will get around to doing the giveaway but I just want to post the link to the gaming rig giveaway. And then the gaming rig giveaway is a 40k PC ITX. It's an ARC A70 GPU, A750 GPU, so perfect for 1080p. R73700X CPU, very decent CPU even for the present time. And if you don't win the gaming rig, yun nga, andami mga secondary prices, bonkers. So this is the link for the giveaway. Yeah, I don't know how to post it. But anyway, if you want a gaming rig, a very decent gaming rig. You know, Dita's Hardware Sugar, we never half-ass anything or parang chipipay stuff. So man, I'm out of water. So yeah, this is a legit gaming rig giveaway. It's in a beautiful case. I've always wanted to build in the Phanteks Evolve Shift Air. I think it's the proper name. Beautiful case. And yeah, so click the link. And then just like with this contest, just like with other contests you've done in the past, you can only enter once, but you can do certain things to have multiple chances of winning. That's why we have a custom picker. It automatically gives more chances if you do certain things. In the case of this video, it was just to share the video on YouTube. But for the gaming rig giveaway, there are a lot of other things that you can do to earn more chances to win. I just want to shout out everyone, John Ray, Jalal, Jalal, Jalal from YouTube, Oscar, Irbus Parque, Sop, Pesto, Sop, Pesto, John Paul Bonifacio. You know how to enter when you will wake up? Lapit na, lapit na. Kulang ako sa tulog. Let's play the ad and then we'll get around to the draw. No, no, he's there. He's like literally, he's inside the home office. All right, Merry Christmas guys. Let me just play the ad. We do need to have one last CD key ad video of the year. And then let's get to the draw. Let me check. Sorry, I'm really a little wasted. They've changed the UI a little bit here. Catch you after the break. Pinakamago mula sa CDKeyOffers.com. Windows 10 and Windows 11 activation codes. Legit, safe, and pinakamura. Madadilo mo order. Hanapin ang Windows version na gusto mo. Piliin ang preferred Paypen friend mo. Wala pang 5 minutes na CD kita na para sa Windows mo. Maraming na kaming na tulungan. Date, sadong di purchase ako. But now, I'm from the love of my life. Date, ing-less ang walang purchase ang life ko. But now, I'm a world-class Zuba instructor. So web developer ako and content creator for a YouTube channel. And ngayon ganun pa rin ako pero activated na yung Windows ko. Kaya ako naghanap ka ng legit, mura, at original software. Check out CDKeyOffers.com. Check out CDKeyOffers.com. Check out CDKeyOffers.com. Alright, let me share my screen. Let me share this screen. Yes. There we go. Wait, you should see me too. So let's do picture-in-picture. I should really be picture-in-picture. I don't know what this guy is doing. Up there. Okay. I don't know why the picture-in-picture thing doesn't work anymore. What about like this? Alright, good enough. Alright, so this is a custom HTML thing that Rocky the Program came up with. Again, it's nothing new. We did it last year. What's nice about it is that if you did the bonus quests to get more chances of winning, it automatically gives you more chances. So that's why we like this custom HTML thing. Ano lang tuyo? You can see it's just a browser. It's just an HTML page and then with some special magic cooking underneath. Alright, alright. So magnan natin, patagalin pa. If you have any, apparently CJ Villarin has some voodoo that he does before these draws. If you want to do any magic now's the time because here we go. And the winner of the APNX-C1, you can choose whether black or white. Although Rocky the Programmer, this isn't the case that we're giving away. This is actually the evolved shift, which is the gaming giveaway.  This is not the case we're giving away. This is actually the case we're giving away. You already know.  Just so that everybody knows what we're playing for here. It's actually a very nice case. Our review of it is coming out tomorrow. And it can have up to 10 or 11 fans. Crazy. Crazy number of fans inside. So it comes with 4, 3, 140, and 120. Then we slapped in six more for a total of 10 fans. And yeah, yun nga. You can choose whether black or white. We just don't have the chromax, the chroma flare, but we have the black and we have the white. So here we go. The winner of the giveaway, first, one of two giveaways. This is the first giveaway. The second one will have the draw on January 1, 2024. The winner is... I thought this thing was broken when I tried it out kasi ang tagal. Bago lumabas yung name ng winner. But let's... It'll stop eventually. Nope, there we go. Congratulations to Mike Lareza. Mike Lareza, you have just won. Aga ayro, though. That's not how it works. Una available pa rin yung the gaming rig. We're doing the draw of the gaming rig on January 1. And we're definitely not doing that. So, sa Brennan, sa Brennan from Facebook. We're definitely not giving away the ASUS full rig because that's not ours to give away. But although maybe next year we will... Stop, lucky bear vlogs. Stop, guys. So, it's nice to see... I love doing these giveaways. I mean, to be honest, logistically, it's a bit of a challenge. But it's nice to see everybody just good vibes. It's your Christmas season. Everybody cheering everybody on. Everybody happy for everybody. So, Mike Lareza. In fact, one time we did this kind of contest. One of the winners was actually in chat. So, that was really nice. Oh, nanalo ako. And then everybody was like, oh, saying congrats, congrats. It's really a nice feeling. So, Mike Lareza won the APNXC one. There is a very small chance. We will contact him after this stream. And we will also verify on our end that he actually liked the page and if he availed of the second chance to get more entries to win that he actually shared the video on his Facebook. For whatever reason, the chosen winner was not eligible pala. So, it was actually ineligible. Or if he doesn't reply within three days on like, hey, you know, you won and he doesn't reply, we will do a draw again. And this has actually happened just once so far. So, we do have some experience with that. So, there is an outside chance that we might need to redo this. But, you know, 95% I don't know, no likes Hardware Sugar Page no win. Although, itong, I don't want to do that anymore. Like, see, APNX, Sub-ITX, ADIC. APNX was like, yes, we need to like our page and then that's it. So, then we added just like the sharing the video. We didn't ask them anymore to like or share or follow the Hardware Sugar Socials. Since may gaming, we give away naman. Yes, so, we will contact Mike Lariza and on the outside chance that, you know, for whatever reason happens to be ineligible or he doesn't reply. Then we'll do this again. Tawang tama since we'll need we have a couple of days before the gaming rig giveaway. And again, as I have mentioned many times it's just not the gaming rig that we're giving away.    We're giving away ROGA, DIOs, Cooler Master, Air Coolers, RX5 and RX580, RX560XT, I think. And aside from the gaming rig which is also like you know, super quality. I mean, hindi naman sa ano but I think it's the most premium giveaway from a local tech YouTube channel at least that I've seen. So, yun. Congrats again to the winners. Thank you so much everybody who tuned in. We're going to have just like a dry run. Parang teaser lang to yung January 1 and many secondary prizes. Of course, our sponsor CD-Key also sponsored four CD-Key's for that for the giveaway. Yung kaduktong nung gaming or giveaway. So all of that on January 1 probably around 3.30 or 4 o'clock also. Maybe I'll make it 4 o'clock kasi I'll probably ko lang rin ako sa tulog ngun. But yun, thanks everybody for tuning in. I hope you had a very merry Christmas. Get back to gaming. We still have one and a half days left of holidays at least before the dead week between Christmas and New Year's. Get back to your games whether they're free or you got them on discount. Get back to your rig whether you had it upgraded or it's a trusty war machine.  And yun. Congrats again to Mike Lareza. See you all on January 1 for the the draw for the gaming rig and all the other secondary prices I talked about. And I just want to mention that we have a bunch of content still dropping in the last 6 days of December. So we have a video coming out tomorrow the review actually of the APNXC1 spoiler alert the extra fan slots are not just for show. They actually really improve performance thermal wise because we slapped in like 10 we bumped the number of fans up to 10 in this case. There's noticeable temperature improvement in both the CPU and the GPU. And so we have a review video coming out and then we have in case you missed it like some of the learnings we had from 2023 so that's another video our revamp podcast will have its first episode the trailer of which is already online but its first actual episode will drop December 29 Friday on YouTube and on Spotify and all the other places and we have a build just a montage video coming up using the APNXC1 as well Yeah, I think and that's it for 2023 so actually just a bunch of other videos pa and the podcast textual but friendly coming up So again thank you so much for joining me thank you to everyone who participated congrats to Mike Lareza and Merry Christmas


The Women World Cup finalist and the Women Blitz world champion speaks to us about her game today against Kaya Kik. Let's have a chat with Katrina Lahno. Katrina, you got a pleasant position out of the opening and after Bishop at 7, it looked all over. What happened? Yes, it was already hopeless. So he made some mistakes before and after Bishop at 7, it was already, the game was over. But he tried to escape with his king, but well, I was a pawn up and exchange up, so it was quite an easy game. An easy game, but where do you think he went wrong? In the very opening, so he played a line, but he didn't know it well, so I had a pleasant position. An energetic game with an exciting finish. Now you took a buy in round five. How did you spend your day? Walking, shopping, so very nice, very nice free day for me. Sounds like the perfect preparation for round six. Yes, of course. It's the best preparation when you don't play chess. And are you satisfied with your play so far? Well, of course, I am not happy with my game against Adams and I know what happened, but I will not share it. So, well, I tried to forget it. That's why I took a free day and now I will play in a new tournament.  Give us your impressions about Gibraltar. Well, it's a very strong open tournament and I'm very happy always to play here and not so easy, of course, because if you play good, you play strong co-opinions. If you play not good, you play not so strong, but still you have to win, you have to show good results. So, well, not easy, but for me it's a very nice place to be here and I'm joined very much. That's really nice to hear and indeed open tournaments are never easy. Now, Katrina, you are one of the strongest female players in the world. How do you think tournaments like Gibraltar contribute to women's chess? Well, I would like to have more tournaments like Gibraltar for women's chess because the prices are really high. Well, it's going to be better this year with a new series of Grand Prix and we will see how it will go on, but still I believe Fide will try to do the best things for women's chess, so at least they promised to pay attention on us. And talking about the new Fide, now there is the big change of the women's world championship cycle, which is transitioning to the men's format. What's your opinion on that? Okay, let's wait. But, you know, I enjoyed this knockout system also. Even I didn't play well before, not only because of my success in the Hunterman series this year, but still I think that it's a lot of fun to watch for the spectators when you play Armageddon game. But of course, if you want to know my opinion, maybe it's more serious and it's better to have the same system like in men's competitions, so same knockout is not more world championship, but world cup. Like a qualification for the candidates? Yes, so it looks, at least it looks logical to have the same system like in men's competitions. Now talking about you having a great run, you also won the gold in the world championship Blitz event.  Tell us a bit about that. Well, not easy because I became a mother for the first time. And I decided to play in Hunterman series because it would be already my third world championship that I would miss if I declined. So that's why I decided to play it. And I don't know how, but it went well till the end. Well, not so, of course I wanted already to win that, but still it was okay. So of course not easy because first of all I'm a mother and I miss my children, but well, what to do?  So we'll see how we'll go on in the future. Well, you say not so easy, but you had a brilliant 2018. What's the secret? I don't know really, don't ask me because for me it's something really unexpected. Because as I told many times I was ready to go home at any point during the world championship. So, but well, you know, maybe I wanted... It was so hard at home that I wanted to stay there as long as possible. Because with four children you can imagine that you don't have one second, one free second. So of course for me playing to play chess it was not so hard this time. So I just enjoyed and it worked well. And talking about enjoying, are you enjoying Gibraltar so far? Yes, of course it's a rest. Of course, not preparing a lot, taking sun, fresh air, of course it's a rest. So really enjoying the tournament. You make it sound like a holiday? Yes, it is a holiday. Alright, well we look forward to the rest of your games and hope to have you back in our studio. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Thanks.


I came to the police station in 2003 and told the officers I was innocent. They didn't believe me. I came to the Crown Court in Manchester in 2004 and told the jury I was innocent. They didn't believe me. I came to this appeal board in 2006 and told them I was innocent. They didn't believe me. I applied to the Criminal Cases Review Commission, which is supposed to investigate miscarriages of justice, and tell them I was innocent. They didn't investigate and they didn't believe me. Not once, but twice. Today we told this court I was innocent and finally they listened. But I have been innocent all along. For each of those 20 years that came before today, nothing, any police officer, court or commission, said about me since 2003, changed that reality. You are here to gather news. That declaration from the bench in there behind me is not news to me. When a jury finds you guilty when you are innocent, reality does not change. You know you did not commit to crime, but all the people around you start living in a false fantasy universe and treat you as if you were guilty. The police, prison officers, probation, prisoners, journalists, judges. As a minority of one, you are forced to live their false fantasy. The second of August 2003 I was kidnapped by the state. It has taken nearly 20 years to persuade my kidnappers to let me go. 17 years, 4 months and 16 days of that time were spent in prison. At every parole hearing I sat before a panel who shook their heads at me considering me to be dangerous. And all that time the real perpetrator, the real dangerous person was free. More recently I was allowed to leave prison, but with my name on the sex offenders register and on the tight supervision by police and probation, I was not free. And now I have finally been exonerated. I am left outside this court without an apology, without an explanation, jobless, homeless, expected to simply slip back into the world with no acknowledgement of the gaping black hole that they opened up in my life.  That black hole is hard for a person who has never slept a night behind bars to conceive of. People convicted of rape are the lowest of the low. I did not commit the crime that I was treated as if I did. I spent 17 years on my guard against every threat. 17 years counting down the minutes to lock up, so I could be behind my door and safe from other prisoners, but not safe from my own mind.  All left to die of hypoglycemia in myself tonight.  But somehow I lived. Told every day that I was a liar, I sought the uncomplicated truths of science and mathematics through the Open University. Told every day that I was a violent monster, I sought tiny respites through Buddhism and meditation. Told that I was in denial about my offending behaviour. I read everything I could about a justice system that was in denial about its mistakes. Since I was arrested in 2003, the police, the prison system and probation service have been calling me a liar, because I denied that I committed the crime. They claimed I was in denial and made me serve an extra 10 more years in prison because I would not make a false confession.  I am not in denial. But I will tell you who is. Greater Manchester Police are liars. And they are in denial. Even after this judgement today, I predict we will see them denying responsibility for what happened. We will see them stretching credulity with their excuse-making. Greater Manchester Police have been scrambling to cover up how they wrongfully convicted me for 20 years. Rather than investigate the multiple leads they were given by the public, they made a horribly traumatised woman look at a line-up with me in it, even though I didn't match the description she had given of her attacker. They exploited a hopeless heroine addict and his girlfriend, both with dishonesty convictions having them tell the jury they identified me. They unlawfully withheld crucial evidence which would have helped my defence. Once I began appealing, the police unlawfully destroyed the victim's clothing that I was demanding we retested along with other evidence, not just once, but three times. And all this time, the person who really did this horrific crime has been at large. And this means that it's not just me who has been denied justice. This is the victim. As this is my only chance to say something to her, please allow me to address her directly. Sitting in my cell, I used to rut my brains as to how you could say you were so sure it was me when I knew it was not. I read all I could and learned about how fraught with risk the process of line-up identification is when someone has been subjected to trauma. I wondered if the police helped you to pin me. Since my release, I have had the privilege of being introduced to an American woman called Jennifer Thompson, a rape survivor who was caught up in a wrongful conviction. She has helped me at least begin to try to understand what you went through that night and what it has been like for you since. I am so sorry that you were attacked and brutalised that night by that man. I am not the person who attacked you. But what happened to me is not your fault. I am so sorry if my fight for the truth, as I knew it to be, has caused you extra trauma. I am so sorry that the system has let you down. Take letters both down. There are no winners in a wrongful conviction case with the exception of the real perpetrator. Everyone gets failed from the original victim to the wrongfully convicted person. I sincerely hope that you are receiving the support you need on the apology from the police that you deserve. Thank you. No questions, she's got a prepared statement and we are asked to help read it. I am the proud mother of this brave, gentle, decent man. I have always known he did not do this horrible crime. The first time I got to talk to him after his arrest he said, when they test the DNA they will know I am innocent and he's been saying this same thing ever since. For nearly 20 years people have assumed that I was just a loyal and committed mother in denial about what my son was capable of doing. I knew the system had got it wrong but it seemed like there was nothing I could do about it. As a mother, not being able to help your child when they are in desperate need is the most painful experience you can have. When Andy was convicted in 2004, to me it was just like someone pushed me into an abyss and I was just falling. No one could hear me crying out for help. I couldn't see the bottom of this abyss. It was just black. No one was listening to me. I was in that much shock. I actually lost my voice. I couldn't speak. And then as the months grew into years I was just hoping that someone would hear us. I'd throw us a line. A rope to climb back up out of this dark pit. The ropes were dangles and then pulled back up again before we could get to them. Finally, we found a rope we could reach and that was the people at the Lord Charity of Peel. It was them who saved my son. Not this call or the commission or the system. And now Andy's name has been cleared. Suddenly in the public eye I am no longer a deluged mother. My son is no longer a monster. But what has been done to him cannot be undone. The damage will be with him for the rest of his life. And the woman who got attacked has been denied justice just as my son was. Like any parent would, what I want for Andy is a full accounting of how this happened. And for the people responsible for my son's wrongful conviction to be brought to justice alongside the man responsible for this brutal attack. I'm the solicitor representing Andy Malpinson and I'm the director of the Law Practice and Charity of Peel. This case represents a double injustice that must never be repeated. Let's be absolutely clear about what has happened here. Greater Manchester Police caused an innocent man to be wrongfully imprisoned for over 17 years. They then withheld crucial evidence denying Andy a fair trial and unlawfully destroyed key exhibits nearly denying the DNA test results that have established his innocence beyond any doubt today. Greater Manchester Police also utterly let down the victim of this brutal crime. Their deeply flawed investigation failed to bring to justice her real attacker compromising public safety in the process. The public deserves better. The police must face full accountability for their actions. We, of course, welcome today's ruling overturning Andy's wrongful conviction. But the question which should trouble everyone is why did it take nearly 20 years to get here? The truth is this case, Andy's case, is an indictment of both the Court of Appeal and the Criminal Cases Review Commission. These so-called safety nets in our justice system missed three earlier opportunities with this obvious miscarriage of justice right. Faced with compelling DNA evidence proving Andy's innocence, the Court of Appeal had no choice today but to finally throw out his conviction. They're considering the other issues in the case that relate to the disclosure failures by the Greater Manchester Police and will issue a judgement on those in the near future. Our message to parliamentarians is this, reform these institutions, make them transparent, make them accountable, force them to apologise and to learn lessons from Andy's case. Otherwise, we will see more wrongful convictions, more trauma and more justice denied. And it's not enough to say just learn lessons. This, we must have zero tolerance for any future wrongful convictions. This is an event that should never be permitted to be repeated. Appeal, people standing here, is a small legal charity. We spent thousands of hours on this case and most of those hours were spent by James Burley, who is Andy's investigator. Only a tiny fraction of that work was funded by Legal Aid. We commissioned DNA testing, we interviewed witnesses, we took the police to court in a judicial review twice to get disclosure of the evidence that this Court had heard today. We were only able to do this work with the support of our generous supporters. I want to especially thank all those who have donated their time or their money to appeal our charity and to Andy's case. And in particular, that would be Ed Henry, King's Council, Junior Council Max Hardy and the Pro Bono staff who have put in hundreds of hours at the law firms Ropes and Bray, Latham and Watkins, Mishon Durea and Morrison Borsley. We're now going to take a couple of questions. James and I, but not Andy, and Andy will be doing it more later. Any questions, please? Two or three. What are the chances of compensation? The compensation regime in this country is completely backward. You are required to prove your innocence to the regime in order to be compensated. It will be years before Andy receives anything in that regard. And I will say, actually, I consider compensation in this context to be a dirty word. You cannot compensate, Andy, for what he's been through.  You wouldn't do it. There is no amount of money that could compensate Andy Malkinson for what he's been through. So let's not call it compensation. Let's call it support to rebuild his shattered life. Could you elaborate briefly on the destruction of some of the evidence that you want the DNA from? Yes. So on three separate occasions, Great Manchester Police unlawfully destroyed evidence in this case. We don't have a full record of what they destroyed. But amongst the items that they destroyed, were items of victims' clothing. In a case like this, where they knew a man was trying to prove his innocence, and they knew that there'd be advances in DNA testing, that very nearly denied Andy the chance to have this hearing here today to prove his innocence. Unfortunately, a separate body, the forensic archive, had kept samples from those clothing items, which allowed the new testing to take place. But this is the other scandalous thing. It's not just that Andy was wrongly convicted. He very nearly was denied the opportunity to prove his innocence because of unlawful behaviour by GMB. One last question and we'll be gone. We're done. Thank you. I've seen that. That hasn't actually arrived. So here at Great Manchester Police offering an apology now. Afterwards. We have not seen that until today. And Great Manchester Police are offering us an apology. You go talk to them about that. On you go. Come this way.


Why did people start using language? There's all kinds of theories to coordinate the hunt or something like that. You know, none of them seem very compelling to me. The only one that seems compelling to me is that it evolved as a game. And the first use of it was to tell stories, not for some practical purpose that enhances our survival. Like, can we stop seeing everything in terms of whether it enhances survival or not? People do so many things that are not useful for survival, like playing music. That doesn't help you survive, but people do it in every corner of the earth. So that's, I guess, one of the conceptual lenses that then organizes reality around it. Because when we see the world as a contest for survival, then we create systems that reify that. For example, capitalism, where everyone is out there trying to get the best deal for themselves. And then having built that system and living in that system, it seems that its description of human nature is true, that everybody's trying to get the best deal.  So it looks real. But is that actually human nature? Or is that a product of those circumstances? So maybe you go back into that pre-conceptual state and you have access to something true that was obscured by the shifting maze of concepts.