I just want to say. I'm having a rough morning. I may run away from the screen and come back, but I'll just do it. No problem. Um, so Michelle, we're recording and if you could just also make that announcement because the chair needs to announce that that we're recording the meeting. Thank you. Absolutely. Yes. So I am opening the January 4th meeting calling to order the governance organization and legislation committee. At 901 a.m. and this meeting is being recorded pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 this meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public are able to access the meeting in real time via zoom or by telephone. And I'm going to do a sound check for members of GOL and then I will pass it over to Lynn to open the council meeting and do a sound check for other counselors. So, and also for GOL members, I have to leave at about 1125 sharp. So when we do the sound check, if you could just give your timing for today, what time you need to be out of here by that would be great. I'm starting with you, Mandy. I'm present and I can stay till 1120 or so. Okay, great. Jennifer. I'm present and I can also stay till 1120. Great. I'm present and also can stay until 1120. Okay, and Anika. Present and I can stay until 1120. Excellent. So I'm going to pass it over now to Lynn to call to order the council meeting. Given that we have a quorum with the council present, I'm going to call the council meeting to order. It is only for the purposes of discussing the goal and when we are finished with that, the council will adjourn. I also want to note that residents can also view this meeting on Amherst media who's with us today. So let me do a check with those that are present on a devil and got here. I can hear you. Pam Rooney. Here. Kathy Shane. Here. Andy Steinberg. Present. And I think that's all of the counselors and Lynn Griezmer is present. Michelle, I just wanted to note quickly that according to the emails that I've received from counselors, we might be expecting one or two more a little bit later. So I'll just keep an eye out for those and we'll confirm that they can hear us and we can hear them when they join. That sounds great. And Athena, I just received a text message from Alicia. She needs. The link, is it possible? I just, if so we could get started, would you be able to send her that? Sure thing. Great. Thank you very much. Okay, excellent. So we are going to begin this meeting as a committee of the whole as Lynn said to continue our discussion on the town manager goals. I'm going to begin with a public comment period. And then it looks like we have, I tried to take a look and see how many items we still had that we hadn't resolved. And we have one, two, three, four, five, six, about seven or eight items. So I said this earlier, but I don't think it was recorded that I think in order to get to the other items that we have to get to today we have about an hour to spend on this. So for each item as we go through, I'll be just watching the clock in terms of our discussion. So I'm going to begin by calling a public comment period, and I will read the public comments statement. Public comments on matters within the jurisdiction of GOL can now be made residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes, depending on the number of speakers I may ask that we limit that to two minutes today. Based upon, of course, the members who want to speak GOL will not engage in a dialogue or comment on a matter raised during public comment, but we'll be listening carefully. And if you'd like to participate, please go ahead and raise your hand now. Okay, great. It looks like we have two people that would like to make public comment and we will begin with Matt. Welcome Matt. Hi, good morning Michelle. Can everybody hear me. Yes. Great. Good morning, my name is Matt Holloway I live with my wife Emily and our two young sons at 63 maple would drive in Amherst. I'm a co chair of the cultural council and a resident member of the finance committee. We lived in Amherst since 2019. And in the first couple of weeks after moving to town I was having coffee with a friend and a longtime resident, and my wife was pregnant with our first child and my friend said, she made an alarming statement to me she said, Amherst is not a great town for kids right now. We're old and getting older. And she said it in a joking fashion, you know, but she was also making a valid point. And, you know, that's kind of a reinforced to me in my in our experiences. This year, as a member of the finance committee, I made a review of elementary school enrollment data over the past two or three decades and it was very alarming, you know, talking about like, you know, 100% 50% decline in the, in the enrollment. And, you know, while there are many factors that can explain something like that. There's no question that one, one is, there's, you know, an actual decline in the number of young children living in town. So, you know, having reviewed the town managers goals. I just want to say, you know, I applaud the work that's being done to address the proportion of owner occupied versus renter occupied homes in town to regulatory controls I think that's certainly a factor in terms of housing affordability for for young families no question. And I think that same issue though, you know, sort of this demographic shift can and must be addressed from the other side as well. It's one that actively promotes the town as a place where people, and particularly, you know, young families want to occupy their homes and feel like it's a vibrant community for them to do so. And so looking at the proposed goals the most recent, you know, proposed goals that was up that have been posted. I know that the economic vitality and housing affordability sections might be areas where we could, we could find space to include, you know, this concept of, you know, making the town a more appealing place for families to live and to move to, you know, one under economic vitality would involve sort of studying and recommending initiatives that promoted a more child and family friendly family friendly town culture. You know, including recreational childcare and community building options with the goal of making the town more attractive to young families and first time home buyers. And one, you know, I think one sort of cost neutral approach to that would just be to start the dialogue, you know, through a survey of young families or through other explicit outreach means that that just sort of gather the input of, you know, what folks value and what would folks like to see. And so I think my suggestion there would just be, you know, sort of to get recommendations, you know, I realize there's going to be a price tag attached to any initiative and, and I'm not, you know, kind of advocating for any new spending this year on this topic other than recommendations for years expenditure and not vast expenditures either I think the other area that I would just suggest you know I've seen really great work out of this group and I want to thank you all very much for your dedication and your and your time on the topic. So I would suggest that we explore state and federal grant opportunities and other programs for first time home buyer workshops, borrow assistance programs and other things that you know kind of create avenues for first time home ownership in town. You know, there is HUD money out there and other other federal grants and you know I don't know the details but I do think that, you know, doing some explicit research on those could, you know, could help promote first time home ownership. And thanks again very much for your service everybody I really really appreciate Joe. Thank you very much Matt thanks for joining us and Lynn I see your hand is raised and Alicia has joined. Alicia, can you hear us. Yes, I can thank you and thank you and welcome. Thank you. Okay, so our next public comment. Darcy. Welcome Darcy. Hi. Good morning, my name is Darcy Dumont and I live in South Amherst. I think the council received yesterday my recommendations for language in the town manager climate action goals. This comment is just to remind you that a broad swath of the residents in Amherst want the holler bylaw proposal implemented. And that it is included in the carp actions as the as the exact action that is being proposed. So the carp strategy action TI 2.4 states that the town should quote implement a town white curbside composting program for residential and commercial customers. The service is inclusive in large apartment complexes through agreements with owners and property managers, create or contract with a compost processing facility in the region to reuse the compost generated locally for local gardens farms, etc. You can also simply contract with waste haulers to increase efficiency, expand the scope of services office offered and reduce vehicle emissions from trash and recycling collection in Amherst neighborhoods. You can use the word implementation without it being unreasonable. For example, you can state, quote, implement after adoption, unquote, and you can state, quote, start implementation. So that it's clear that it doesn't mean full implementation with every last detail taken care of. On the climate action goals. The point is that we have to be making progress every year. We can't put off action from a year to year if we're going to meet our 2025 and 2030 goals. And lastly, I would very much encourage the town to take more use of its incredible resources of free volunteer resident expert expertise knowledge and time. It is already doing some of that, for example, Dwayne Breger being the chair of the solar by law committee. She's got amazing expertise. The, the ECAC is full of people with tons of expertise that we could use. And we hope that during this budget season we will be able to convince the time to hire staff to do the work necessary to implement the climate action goals. So what Hampton is doing, it appears the mayor is poised to make an announcement on that imminently. So thank you very much, and thank you for your time and your work on this site. It's so important. Thank you Darcy thanks for joining us. Okay, this is a public comment period for anyone who may be in the attendees that did not hear me make that announcement. We're discussing the town manager goals. We have D Shabazz in the audience who would like to make public comment. Hello, everyone. Yep. Okay, great. Thank you so much D Shabazz, a resident of Chapel Road here in Amherst. And also on the CSS JC committee, I am a co chair. I just want to speak to a concern that I have in much of the discussion with the GOL and the town council concerning the town managers goals. It seems to me that the CSWG goals that were laid out last year, based in research, based in forums held to get input from the community are now being marginalized in ways that will set back all of the great work. This town has taken, including creating two new departments DEI and Cress. One of the aspects of this is that the anti racist training focused on the APD is somehow seen as targeting the police. If we go back to the two reports a and B of the CSWG and I'm sure you have all read it exhaustively. There are sections in which, again, based in research and forums held in this community that those recommendations were taken up as a part of the ongoing anti racist work that this town has committed. And so it is not something that came about recently due to the July 5 incident let's just call it out. However, the work within anti racism training is ongoing. It is has been found to be more effective because it changes a culture. When we think of what policing is within the United States that is rooted in the control of black bodies and slavery that legacy continues. Even in the best of departments. And I will say that we have, you know, probably one of the better departments in the state of Massachusetts that does not mean it cannot be improved. And instead of leading on this issue. We want to have this conversation about, we are targeting somehow the police. It is policing in general, that has racist roots. And here we are leading with DEI and crest, and why not continue with the recommendations of the CSWG after all that's what we committed to last year. So I would like the town council to take that up and not see it as somehow targeting our police force, but to see it as our police force leading more anti racist and changing a culture that is systemic. So thank you for your work. And that is what I have to share today. Thank you. Sorry about that. Thanks day thank you for joining us. And we have two more public commenters Vera. Welcome Vera. I just wanted to refer back to the town manager goals. Under management goals, personnel management. The, the objective number five foster a proactive anti racist culture throughout all town departments working first with the public safety department crests fire and EMS and police. So, given the recent articles, speaking to how police officers are feeling assailed in this community. And given the coverage around meetings with town council members and the police that have not been publicly shared or announced or reported about, you know, who attended and what topics were covered. I just want to gather from the conversations and discussions at town council meetings that there's a lot of effort here to put the police last. I just want to echo the point that the last public commenter Disha buzz made, you know, crests fire and EMS. They don't have a gun. They don't come armed when they meet and encounter the public. The police have an ability to kill people. To detain people and to rob people of their rights so I just want to offer my public comments this morning to note that I see what's what it is going on and I hope to get more of a fuller report about these meetings that took place in at the police station with town councilors. Thank you. Bye bye. Thanks for joining us Vera. Brianna. Good morning everyone.  I don't want to debate what happened on July 5, but to remind you how intimately the Amherst police department interacts with our community, our friends, our family and our loved ones. Yes, the CSWG created crest with the intention of a safety service centered around anti racism, but we also recommended creating an anti racist culture at the Amherst police department, because we knew the APD was not going anywhere. This is a need that the community sees as critical and I'm hoping today and in the future, you all can help provide the police department that support to show up the best way they can for everyone in our community. Thank you. Thanks Brianna. Okay, this is the last call for public comment. And Pat, welcome Pat. Good morning. Good morning everyone. First of all, this meeting time is so wrong, because I've reached out to some people to show up today, but they couldn't make it. I come from a family of police. My uncle, my cousins are police officers. I do not hate police officers. But I am very frustrated with the town council to try to protect the police to argue that anti racist training should be all departments. I have news for you guys. The last CSSJ meeting that I requested for APD consultants, contractors for the past 10 years, specifically for me to review the type of training that police officers are getting in our town. And what I found out was mostly law enforcement trainings, except for one major local consultant, the Romney's that provided anti racist training. Okay, so CSSJC are aware that the police need anti bias training. Why are we debating who come first. To me what is happening is like a crying baby. When a baby cries the parent jump to calm them down. When police officer doesn't like what they want, the powerful town councilors go behind the scene to make plans to shut down what counselor Alicia is trying to do. I would like to remind you guys that CSSJCWG, which I was a member of, recommended anti bias training to the police officer. I say black woman who have lived in this town for 40 years. I have never called police. And I pray that I don't because police are not here to protect me and my family I'm afraid of them. Okay. And so they do need that training first, before any other department it has nothing to do with July 15 incident. So, I'm agreeing with the previous speakers, Dr. Disha Baz, Brianna and Virat of what they already said. And more people would have showed up this morning. If it were if this meeting were held in the evening. Again, this is about white privilege I see so many of you being available this morning to hold these meetings it's not that for some other people. So, because this is such an important issue to be included in town managers goals.  And that's not okay. We try to preach for diversity.  Thank you for your time. Thank you miss Pat. Thanks for joining us. And we have one more public comment from Phillips is the final public comment. I can hear me. Yes, welcome Phillip. All right, thank you. I just wanted to speak on some concerns that were brought up to me in my various roles in towns as the Human Rights Commission chair, co chair and as a community and safety and social justice committee member that people brought up to me I was away for two weeks on vacation and decided not to look at emails not to look at anything. And so I don't really know what was going on in town until I came back into town. And so people were kind of just, Hey, did you hear about this hey did you hear about that. And with that I think that an experience that I had while I was away as relevant to this conversation of systemic police and biases that they have I grew up in a town that was predominantly Hispanic and Ontario California. And there, I don't expect much from our police department our police department at my home is a very interesting one, but I was hanging out in my hometown out my grandma's house with family members and we were just out in the front area. And just, you know, just hanging out having a good time and a police car rolled up and then before we knew it there was about six or seven of them, and we all kind of got stopped on the curb and a couple of my cousins are affiliates of some local gang members and so that could have been the reason why could not have been didn't we weren't doing anything at the time but either way, I got held up in that lineup to I got, you know, I got put on the curb got told to sit there, whatever else and so I just want us to think about that. That may not be every police officer's intention. Yet, these types of stories happen all the time to minoritize groups and people of color, and whether or not we want to view it as systemic racism. When on multiple fronts of different police departments, that is occurring throughout our nation. And so, for that, I just want to say that I would love if our town and our police department could potentially not fill victimized not fill in a way that puts them in a bad light and rather view it as an opportunity to lead the efforts of our anti racism in town, and to lead the efforts of being the department of like, Hey, you know, we know that we have a systemic problem in the nation and we're not saying that we participate in it or we're a part of it is just that they're leading the town efforts I think that goes a long way for the story that I just shared with you that it creates a narrative that you know our police department cares about this issue, rather than that they don't care about this issue, and that our police department is so fragile that if we put them as the first people to do this training that it's viewed as an attack and that we need to change course and anyway. So with that, I just want to leave that I also am not understanding why this conversation is happening in the do well efforts when it's already been voted on in the town council on November 11. So I just want to leave that as well. Thank you. Thanks for joining us. And the town manager goals will be on Mondays town council meeting agenda so there will be additional. There will be a general public comment as there always is at town council meeting for folks who weren't able to attend today. So we are going to begin our review. And Mandy, would you be willing to bring up the current draft. Mandy, after our last meeting Mandy received comments from counselors and has incorporated those comments into the latest draft. The town manager Bachmann was unable to join us today he did let me know he had another engagement but he has put some questions in here that have been here actually for quite a while so hopefully everyone's had a chance to read them. So we can begin here with the sort of summary that starts us off and then we're going to go through item by item and last GLL meeting for folks who were not here I think we've already said this though we went through and pulled out the items that we're still in debate about so there are we're going to go through everything. So I'm going to look for hands as we move through this beginning with this first question that Paul has here. And just to clarify again so this is a committee of the whole so the whole council or the councils that are here are having the discussion ultimately GLL will have to make a recommendation on the document so as we go through I'd like to try to get a sense through the items where we are so that we can see if we're finding consensus or not on each of these items. So Paul says how do we address the possibility that the funding needed to achieve the goals may not fit within the budget guidelines. Anyone would anyone like to comment on that. Yes, I see Pam, Jennifer, Mandy and Kathy I'm going to start with you Pam. Thanks. I think regarding this in several instances throughout the goals. There are opportunities for the town manager to assess what it would take to accomplish some of these things and I think speaking only for myself. I would expect that there would be some effort to project out the cost of implementing some of the goals. That's part of the job. We need to be presented with essentially the ramifications for getting something done. And if it's a several there was something in the conservation section, you know there's something right here that we need to know what it will cost, but it doesn't mean that they should not work on it, because it's not somehow fully funded right now. I'm, I'm hoping that the town manager understands that that we that we are looking for essentially cost estimates for doing some of this work. And that needs to be presented to us so that we can choose to pursue it or not. Thanks Pam Jennifer. Thank you for joining me with Pam and I met at the point of doing the goals first was so the budget could be set around the goals and I realize if we said, you know we want deep that a new department DEP building, you know at the end of the year that can't happen but that is the point of the exercises that we each council has an opportunity to set goals, and then the budget is made around that so it seems. It's a bit of a dance, you know, we can't ask for something that can't we can't afford but we have to ask for what we want what our priorities are, and then have the budget be built around that. So, yeah, that's just what I'm saying I if, if we're going to say, well we can't set the goals, because it may not be in the budget, then that seems to be the whole point of the exercise is to build the budget around the goals. Thank you. Thank you Mandy. So I don't think Paul's saying that he can't do this I think he's saying when we set the goals. They might not fit within the guidelines that we also vote. And how do you reconcile those two. And so, you know, I think we could change this wording to and will, you know, I'm just making stuff up right now, including multi-year plans, and will inform the town council of the fund, you know, of, of a, of how they could be integrated into budget proposals within the council's budget guidelines or something like that that, you know, and if they can't, you know, and then add something that you know if they can't ask the council what it wants to do, right, because if we can't fit it in the guidelines, you know, take Jennifer's DEP exam, DPW example that, you know, say we put in the budget in these manager goals, build it in a year. Well that's not going to fit in the guidelines, right? And so if they can, I think he needs to inform the council why it can't go in there or what would be necessary for us to be able to, for him to be able to meet that goal, how we would fund it. So I think we can just modify this wording to address his concern somehow. Thank you, Kathy. I just build on what Mandy said. I think the, some modification of the wording because it says the last phrase Mandy is will present a budget proposal for funding them as if we can do it in a year. What we need to do will estimate resources including and, you know, taking step forwards in year one or something because it's my overarching comment when I look at these goals as if I were the town manager I would say I can't do it. And if I was nearing retirement I said I have to leave because we were asking for too much in one year. We're not making choices. So, in terms of resource limits staffing limits, funding limits so I think it's just a rewording this because we're going to be Paul is going to have to make some choices and provide us cost estimates on some of these. Thanks Kathy. Andy. I deliberately waited to go last or later because I wanted to hear what other people had to say. And I agree with the direction that is just being suggested of rewording the goal is a rewording the section in any event, because it does. We need to address the reality that we have limited resources and we want the town manager to help us cope with that and to allow to provide us information about what the cost and would be and the duration of time necessary to achieve goals so that we can then in future years, work with that information in order to continue to set our priorities appropriately. And so it would be really helpful to get very careful wording that encourages that kind of dynamic process. And I appreciate the prior comments that work in that direction. Thank you, Andy. I have a question about the timeline on the goals for any of the counselors from the first session have had was it ever discussed whether the goals should be longer than one year should be to cover like a two year period. It certainly seems to me like we're asking a lot in this timeframe and then thinking about the town, the budget guidelines. I can see where the challenges. So yes, Mandy. Yes, we've discussed it multiple times. One of the challenges of making it a two year set of goals is that the charter requires us to evaluate the manager on a yearly basis, not on a bi yearly basis. And so it makes the evaluation in that mid year slightly harder. It's not that it can't be done, but that that's been one of the challenges. The other challenge is, what do you do in an election year, who adopts those two years and when do they get adopted. But it has been discussed. Yeah, okay. Lynn, it sounds that you put your hand down back up. Okay. Please. I actually totally agree with what Randy Joe just said. And in addition, I think it's very important to couch the goals in any language is making things using words like make progress toward that kind of thing. Because the other thing we ran into it this year is we actually did the town manager's evaluation nine months into a 12 month period. And even though there's still things that he has not been able to finish up in this past year, meaning 2022, there's still work in progress. This is something that I think the council needs to address, but it's not going to work now. I do think these goals, and the major reason we kept I'm in support of keeping the themes that we keep is because our progress within the six, well, the 12 major goals is really continual and multi year. Thank you. Okay, so it looks like Mandy has some language to work with here and we can move on to climate action. So I'll be looking for hands here we've had a reasonable amount of public comment on this. And there are also questions here that Paul has addressed. So looking for hands. Kathy. I'm looking at Paul's comment on the side. And Mandy, as a drafter of this on the, are we picking out these three versus something that's already in the work that they're focusing on for car. And I think, you know, when I was looking at the first round of this. You know, I was trying to pick from a very long list and Paul's now given us a list of what they're working on. I think we need within climate action to have some specifics but have some specifics that Paul and the staff think they can do during the year.  I'm particularly focused Michelle on where Paul said, are we substituting this set for the things that are already under the way from car. And I don't think we meant to do that in the A, B and C. I just want to make that statement than the other statement is, I'm not sure of the bike and pedestrian path, whether it's under climate action or somewhere else. But I have heard lots of comments from residents on, you know, streets and safety and roads and crosswalks so I don't know whether it goes under climate action or later. But that I think is a resident priority priority for making it safe to get around town, whether it's in your car walking biking or crossing the street so it seems stuck in here and bike and pedestrian path for tack. It's just a question on whether it belongs here, whether it goes someplace else, but my other one was just on are we trying to substitute people. Then the last one is on the trash hauler. I think what we're asking for is staff support as the council works this through. I think this is a multi year process Michelle on this on the trash hauler. I don't think it's a one year so if this wording says that I'm happy with it. Thanks Kathy Jennifer. Yeah, can I request, and I'll go through this quickly. Just some specific word changes for the speed of time to do that in this objective. You would like to request word changes. Yeah, a couple word insertions. Yeah, go ahead. Okay, so it has to do with. Yeah, just a little what Kathy said Joe maybe starting implementation or getting ready for implementation. So, number two, where it says complete joint powers. Can we add the word entity agreement. Formation, and then insert the words and start implementation after public utilities I'm sorry. So it would be community choice aggregation. Complete joint powers entity formation and start implementation. Right, and then for three take. I'm sorry, let me just read it through complete because I wrote it down complete joint powers entity formation and start implementation semi colon complete submission of the valley green energy community choice aggregation application to the department of public utilities, and then insert these five words and start implementation upon approval. Jennifer, I'm sorry I'm not more aware, like, in terms of the timeline on this is that within this one year timeframe, well it's really saying whenever the this the application for the community choice application is impending but whenever it is that that is approved by the state that the implementation begin not be completed. Okay, then three, take necessary steps towards and support the town council and developing a waste taller bylaw that is feasible and includes universal compost pickup, comma, and insert the three words local compost processing. Thank you. I mean this will discuss this comma and then the rest is this remains and pay. Oh, comma and pay as you throw fee structure and start implementation if adopted. And then just five more words and then for take action on the following, if we could include new initiatives of the climate action adaptation resilience plan, as well as other actions prioritized for fiscal year 2223 and 24. Can you read that one again. Take action on the following new initiatives, and then the words remain of the climate action adaptation and resilience plan. And if we could add, as well as other actions. I'm already prioritized, as well as other actions for 20 fiscal year. Jennifer, are you by doing that keeping a B and C because that's what I was questioning on whether a B and C belong here are those your new ones. No, just saying as well as the other priorities that have already been there. So you would delete a B and C. I'm not even commenting on a B and C that I'll leave up to the committee. What Kathy's asking though is are the new initiatives Jennifer a B and C. Is that why you're including that language. No, just to say that whatever climate action goals were already in the pipeline. Okay. Yeah, I'm having I'm a little confused about a B and C to so maybe we maybe we'll hear. I'm not sure where they came from. If that came directly from carp from from the actual. But from the ECAC maybe. What I'm asking Jennifer is, if you put the following new, then you're implying the thing do you just want to remove the word following. Take action. Yes, I guess. I'm not saying that's the right way but it's no no no I was just I was just trying to get in there that we already have initiatives that were prioritized for past fiscal years and the one coming up and we wanted to keep those in the pipeline. Right. Okay. All right. Jennifer was that it for this. So let's go to Anna. Okay, so I've got several post-its and I apologize they're not going to be in perfect order here but the, the walking bike, the walking bike, sorry, the walk and bike part of this paragraph. This is something Kathy to kind of respond to what you were saying I think it's both honestly I think prioritizing non vehicular travel was something that the carp did want to that the car does emphasize and so I could see it going either place but it is part of a climate goal in the sense of promoting pedestrian and bicycle safety as an alternate form of travel so. But what I would say instead of reexamined is, I want to, I think reexamination is the first step of creating an implementation plan for or something along those lines might be helpful. I'm comfortable if folks feel like this needs to move to a different section but I do want to emphasize that it has ties to our climate goals as outlined in the car as well. I'm struggling with what so one of Paul's if you can, whenever you're set man I don't want to rush you expand the second the first comment from Paul that says implementation of CCA. I think what what he's saying here is I don't, and I agree I don't think that we can put implementation in the goals when implementation isn't something that he has control over. And so I, or I want to have further conversation about this my my current thought is that we can't put something in here that he has not really doesn't really have the ability to say stop or go on. So, I'm trying to think kind of work through that is part of. Does that include start implementation like doesn't that seem obvious that once it's approved it would be implemented or am I overthinking this. So question about that. I'm struggling with the phrasing of start implementation it seems redundant to me implementation does feel like a start but again that's me being picky. And then to go back to ABC. One of the things and many if you don't mind scrolling down to the are we substituting and expanding that one. Thank you. So, these are overlapping with the things that were set these are not necessarily new the I think the pedestrian and bicycle plan would be new but an energy benchmarking and disclosure by law that would be on us, not actually on Paul necessarily so it would be supporting work towards but to be honest with you so much of that disclosure is covered under the new would be covered under the new rental registration bylaw that we really need to consider whether that's something that still makes sense for us to do. And then the do you scroll a tiny bit I'm sorry. Yep so the, the retrofits of multifamily complexes is the same thing as the HVAC and timeline for electrification that he mentions I think in his next comment. And then did you do sorry. Jennifer, I think I'm curious about I'd love to hear more from you about the inclusion of local compost processing because if I'm interpreting that correctly, that's a huge additional part of that bylaw it sounds amazing, and am I missing my misunderstanding it. Okay, great. It's not for the town to do it it's just to have the composting done locally. And yeah I was like what does local mean because we don't have any, okay. I just wasn't sure if we were putting in something that totally changed the amount of energy needed. Okay. So I think that that's it I think my main point here is that these the the initiatives that I don't know that we need to say new initiatives because I do not believe that all of these are new I think it's a lot as Paul out as Paul stated, have been in process they have used we've raised them slightly differently, especially the multifamily retrofits, etc, etc. Okay, thank you Mandy. And so I don't know what where I am on some of these changes I'm confused about the change to number two with the word entity. So given Paul's comments sort of what Anna said about it, and then the start implementing implementation because Paul's comments, he has no control over it. You know, and what is a joint powers entity it sounded like Jennifer wanted to get rid of the word agreement but Paul talks about a joint powers agreement, not an entity. It's actually called an entity agreement. I don't actually know. But when you were reading yours Jennifer you were getting rid of the word agreement. I don't know I didn't want to get rid of I just want to insert.  The agreement isn't really implemented the agreement is sent on to submit to CCA at the DPU, and only after all of that is done is things implemented but Jennifer some of your wording which I did not put into this was to put a start implementation. On the approval. No, I think when you last read yours to you sort of split it into two separate sections, complete the JP a formation and start implementation and then you said semi colon and submit Valley Green Energy CCA application. Now let me read it it's complete joint powers entity formation, I guess that's what it should say I'm sorry. I guess it won't get entity once it's approved. So complete joint powers entity formation and start implementation semi colon complete submission of the Valley Green Energy Community Choice aggregation application to the DPU and start implementation upon approval. I guess I'm not sure whether the joint powers entity can even be implemented until the DPU approves the CCA. So the way you read it, you have implementing of the joint powers entity before the CCA is approved by the DPU. And from Paul's comment it doesn't sound like that can be the case. So, let me ask. Entity is formed by the agreement. Right. It's just a to, we want to communicate that we want to do everything we can to move this along and start implementation upon approval that this is a priority. Right, so the underlying concern or the underlying intention here is to make sure that it's a priority is once approved implementation starts. Are you saying that Paul's comment indicates that he has no control over and I think Anna said this as well that he has no control over implementing it so you really Jennifer, I think, are you wanting there to be, I guess I'm wondering do just. Okay, this is probably another conversation but does does the entity, the community choice aggregation has to be approved by the Department of Public Works but I'm not sure that the entity agreement that's between the towns that are involved. I think that's independent of the agreement is but I guess my question was, I don't think you can do any once the agreement is signed and the entity is sort of formed. You submit to DPW, but then the DPU I mean, but then everything's on hold until DPU acts, including doing anything about the entity. That's my understanding. And so, no, I think the entity because the application is already in, as I understand it. The entity could be formed separate of the. It sounds like we have a question that we have a question so I don't want to take up time here. Yeah, let's move on. And we'll just get it answered by Monday. That sounds great. And my other comments were towards number four. I think it goes to what Anna was saying and what Kathy at one point was saying, I don't know. So, for history, A, B, and C came from an ECAC email to at least Anna, who then forwarded it to us. It might have gone to the whole council regarding lists from a well prior revision version of this. And they were just a portion of a list of like nine or 10 items that ECAC had listed. So that's where that came from. I'm concerned with Paul's comment though, and I wonder, you know, so I guess I'm leaning towards just saying take action on the items or something of the carp that have been prioritized for FY 22, 23 and 24 and leaving it at that and just moving everything after that would be money. Do you, Anna, would you speak to that just because you received the email so it would be helpful to hear. Sure, thank you. I mean, I think I, I'm uncomfortable without giving some specificity I think that for me, and maybe this is my preference I think that ECAC went through and the document that I believe I sent to everyone included was a really great list about the percentage change in emissions required that each product, each element that they wanted addressed would kind of where it would get us. And so I think for me, it's, it is important to keep the specificity in there, also for ourselves right like we're demonstrating on this call that we, while we are, I'm not going to discount that we are very smart people are not experts on climate action and so to keep specificity in here also allows for us to go back through and not just say, okay great we have these vague goals but to say oh we actually knew what they were and we can check backing on them so I would prefer to keep some specificity in here especially given that, you know, ECAC did a significant amount of effort to come to make sure that they were bringing forward the goals that felt most relevant or the areas that felt most relevant from the carp. And I do not believe that it's different from past year from past prioritization lists. I believe the only exception would be that they included the local ways taller bylaw in their priorities this year. So I think, I guess I'm not comfortable taking out the level of specificity that where we where we clarify which areas we'd like him to address. Yes, as a process question so you're saying that ECAC asked for these items to be prioritized so what we're saying is that have a committee comes forward and asks for items to be prioritized that we'd like to include them in this specific way, am I understanding that correctly? I mean I think that that's one way to interpret it. I think that ECAC was specifically tasked with identifying priority areas and so it feels it feels to me like that was a charge to them. And given the council's adoption of the reduce our emissions by then ECAC was told great what do we need to do to hit that mark by 2030 or 2050. It's not necessarily that they've identified what they see as priorities they identify the equation to get us to those emissions that we as a council committed to. And this is the town manager action that's required to do that. Got it. Okay, thank you. Yeah. So Mandy did you want to respond to that before I go to Andy? I still have questions because the carp is it was ECAC's identification of the steps that needed to be done and Paul in his comment here with what is on tap for on tap for 2023 to 24 and he lists a whole bunch of things. It's completely different from what ECAC just emailed us about the goals. And so I'm struggling with, he pulled it from carp. You're saying, I know carp was what that plan was to get us to reach the 2025 goals and R and now ECAC has a completely new list so I understand Paul's confused and saying, well, are we changing the list completely because he's saying we can't do both. And so which list are we picking the one that was in carp, or the new ECAC list that is slightly different from the carp list and I would prefer to go with the list that Paul has already planned for that came from carp. Yep. So, so the list that ECAC had is also coming from carp and I think there's more overlap than we're necessarily realizing so I think like when I'm looking at what Paul has on on the docket right the, sorry, and my somehow I have the biggest screen in the world and it's still too small. So, when I'm looking at what Paul's got we have the GHG inventory update that was on the list from ECAC and trying to do look at both the ones. The heat pump program that is also on, he's phrasing them differently which is a little bit tough, but they are shared in both areas there are a few that ECAC has that were not on Paul's list. But everything that Paul has was on the ECAC list if that makes sense so there are several new things, but there's not, there's nothing that Paul had that ECAC was like no don't do that anymore. The fleet vehicle inventory ECAC has that as a larger capital emissions inventory they that's what they want to see. They would like to see the dashboard right where where this information is publicly available, where it's not just an internal internal process. Solar assessment I think is the only one that Paul has that they did not have on their list because I think that they were like it's already in progress, which I do think we should this was my the reason I had my hand up before I do think that we should add that in. If we are getting into specifics which as I mentioned I would like is that completion and realization of solar by law. But the municipal building inventory of HVAC and timeline for charge to electrification ECAC combined that with the vehicles to say we want a capital inventory so it's it's phrasing honestly a lot of this seems like phrasing. But for me I don't see. I don't see a miss in the crossover with the exception of the solar bylaw composting. They didn't, they didn't align with us. Does that help me at all. I mean it does it makes me think we should just take the list and Paul's comments and essentially replace the A, B and C with Paul's list as well as adding the one thing that wasn't on that list. I don't have time with me I think that the, I think in that sense it would be because support work towards energy benchmarking and disclosure by law again like, we have to do so much pre work before that can be a town manager action that I'm not. That needs to be a specific goal necessarily, but the reexamine and feasible bike and pedestrian plan could go under a different category if you're not comfortable with it here. And the third one is within the list that Paul provided. I would just want to make sure that we and I'm happy to do it right the second, just look back through to make sure that we've kind of captured what what ECAC wrote out as well. Does that work. So let's give me a second on that and I'm going to ask Andy is your comment specific to this particular discussion I know Kathy had something to say about this but I want to check in with you first since you've had your hand raised. You're muted Andy. So muted. You're muted Andy. muted. I'm having problems with the computer all of a sudden was throwing through some of my screen. So my comments, I mean I'll be real quick so that I because I think that my, some of my concerns are that we are getting very specific and creating a job that's impossible to do. And we need to be very cognizant of what it is that we're asking if any individual, including our town manager and couch things always in make progress towards or implement or explain why implementation is not possible. There are things that give at least some recognition of the extent of what the requests are. And secondly, the second point I have and it's not just related to what we're just talking about. But I think in general, because of some of the public comments. We have various committees that are making recommendations to us as a council. And I think we need to make a decision as a council, whether we are adopting those recommendations are not that it ought to not get into the goals without a process that has the council adopt ownership of the specific steps that are being taken. And I think that we're in danger of doing that many realms and this being one of them. And the third thing that Jennifer's recommendation about local compost processing. We have not talked about that yet that has not been adopted and agreed to by the TSO committee is not really discussed amongst the sponsors because I'm one of the four co sponsors for this. And there are problems with whether that whether or not that's feasible, because we also are recognizing that we're going out to a bidding process with the are what we're hoping to go out to a bidding process room that we will get there and asking hollers to provide bids on services, and we don't now specify how things are being are being disposed of once they are picked up in any other realm and I'm a little bit hesitant to start getting into that kind of specificity on the compost side. We don't do that on what to do with paper what to do with plastic but to do with glass, but to do with the trash itself we're trusting that we are asking the bidders to who will come to us and say we would like to do this that will make proposals to us, and we judge proposals. So I think that it's going a little bit too far too fast to get that kind of specificity and the stage. We really need to be very careful about that. We need to be very careful about these types of decisions and let it get ahead of the process we need to think about the order of the process. Thank you Andy Jennifer would you respond, please to the local compost processing. Yeah, I have to respectfully disagree that is I mean we're saying, as feasible, you know work toward developing, but that's an important part of what makes this, helping to reach the goals that the composting and you know is done, I would say locally like in the Pioneer Valley and there are entities that do that, that really ensures that that waste is composted and can even be brought back to the community. I mean there's a concern that you know everything we put in our recycling bin does that really get recycled and that's part of why we're also want to move to a system where maybe we have a little more control over what's happening with what we discard because just putting something in the recycling bin and hoping for that it's actually recycled. We want to, we want to ensure that we're not just going on faith and that this is, we may not be able to have local compost processing but it should be, it's a definite part of the goal and why we want to move to a new waste taller system. It's to have a fee structure that encourages residents to reduce their garbage basically that we have composting to pick up as part of the basic service that makes it easier for folks to compost and that that composting, you know be done locally so that it goes back into the soil and we can even maybe, you know, it can come back to residents, you know for purchase or you know whatever that is an important part of what our goal is and we may not be able to achieve it but I think it's an essential part of the three components are groups I compost pick up as part of the basic service pay as you throw fee structure to encourage reducing garbage disposal and the local composting so that's an important and again yes it's not what we do with our recycling currently but maybe we should you know have, have it be part you know be more mindful or have some control over what actually happens with what we think we're recycling. Jennifer can I just ask you if we're framing this as a goal for the town manager. What role does he have. We're just saying that as we work on the bylaw we want that those, those are the three basic components of the bylaw. Okay, okay. Thank you Andy did you want to respond to that. I think that yeah, maybe we would, and we haven't really talked about that yet so I, that's one of the things that I don't think that we have agreement to, but I can understand the point that Jennifer's making however. At this point we're also waiting on our consultant that the town has now hired to try and let us know what is feasible and so we're jumping ahead and assuming that something is feasible and it's getting into this level of specifics that we don't know where we're, what is possible yet. And it just seems that it gets to a general point as you develop goals of how much specificity you really feel you really it's really appropriate for the council to put into goals. And I think that it's so it's partly an example of a general problem. And it's also a question of what is, is the right way to go about it and we don't know that yet because we haven't heard from our consultant. I just think we're jumping too fast to put it in there in the way that it is and if you're going to leave it in then it says it feasible in there because it leaves. It's really too strong. Yes, it is worth it now. And this is basically those three services would be part of the RFP. I'm not, I don't want to take up. Okay, yeah, because we also want to think about making the document equitable throughout all of the goals and so I can see a circumstance like for example the resident oversight board that we're talking about in a different goal. And I don't want to take up any wishes about that and we may want those things to be included, but we may not have, you know, including them in the at this level, may or may not, we need to make sure that this isn't equitable. I don't want to take up. Okay, let's go to Kathy, and then Anna, and, and then I do see Mandy that your hand is up and given your drafting this I just want to check in with you to see if it's a question regarding. No, it's a comment. So Kathy and I should go first. Okay, I, I think it's important. I'm going to try to rephrase what Andy was saying. It's important to realize these are the town manager performance goals, we're not writing the bylaws in these. So we do not need to get this specific, if I could see saying support the town council and developing a waste hauler bylaw period, because it's up to us, the council to figure out what we want to do here. We need the support to figure out how to do it, and then get it done. We can't put Jennifer, I would go through each of these if we went down to the, yeah, no, I'm okay.  But if we're going to leave the detail in, but I'm just saying if you know the solar sighting, we could go into a solar sighting dialogue that has the following elements, we could go into each one of these things. You can take out the local take that out of that, but I'd like to keep the rest in otherwise. Yeah. Okay, so I'm just saying that when we get later, you know, even on, you know, the. That was my general comment. Yeah, so can we leave it as it was just taking out the local compost. I can do anything that gets us into the next. Yes, I agree. I think but let me just also say my other point is that Paul and his staff need to know to to to need to have the wording be what they think the wording should be so even on number two, we should Andy just make sure we've got the wording that's as because that because that's a we've got this joint agreement, we need to get approval before we can do anything else so we just need to get that wording right so so that it's not. We put three back as it was before my local. Okay, so my point is going to be this on the later ones to this is not where we write our bylaws so I'm glad to see that we got rid of the, the specifics on a couple other things, you know, and I'll stop there. And Paul gave us this list from carp that they are working on. I think this is a good list to put in because we need at the end of the year, or end of 10 months to be able to say, Hey, do we have this do we have this do we have this. And then, and so we can say we got halfway there or make progress. So I think just when we go through all of this. It's Paul plus the staff are trying to do this work. Right. And so we have to do it within that context, and not try to start writing our bylaws here. That's my main point, especially a bylaw that doesn't need there's not even a rough draft of it. Yes. Okay, thank you Kathy and I think that Mandy and I are going to want to check in with Paul before Monday given that he wasn't able to be here today to get clarification and just make sure we've got this language right. Okay, so we do need to move on from this I'm going to go to Anna and Jennifer and Mandy but if we could just keep in mind that we do need to move on. Yeah, I think Mandy got the points that I was hoping to see I just I want to emphasize one quick thing because I think that the way that we have written the climate action goals, you know it does. It can set precedent if we want it to are allowed to for other areas and so I want to just really reiterate briefly the fact that the council voted to adopt the. Actions goals for 2030 this was an actual vote the council took prior to my time on it but this was about the council took the charge of ECAC is to not only set the initial goals but to recommend wrote include a roadmap of steps to achieve said goals. That ECAC has provided so I think that this is you know I want to the level of specificity we are getting here is one does include things that Paul is already working on because ECAC had provided those steps that the council had agreed to the council didn't agree to the specific steps that the council agreed to 2030 2030 seven years away all like we can't keep leaving things so broad. So the our jobs, one of our jobs is to set these goals for the town manager and so I really strongly this, this is a hill and willing to die on of we have getting the specificity to stay in here at some degree because I think that it's really important that we're able to look back and say, we needed to have that you know that heat pump program for residents specifically for multifamily it needs to be in there so Mandy I think your changes I think get at what I was hoping to see in there and I appreciate that thank you. I just want to I want to check in with Pat Pat I saw your hand was up and you haven't spoken so is it still up. I'm wrestling with myself about what I want to say or how I want to say it. Several work things have come up images, and I'm looking now at the whole document and all of the areas in general so it's sort of like a warning.  If we accept the ecac list. Do we accept all of the community safety working group list. That's equitable and emphasize performance goals that and I guess what I really want to say is the purpose of these goals for the town manager is not to create a reelection manifesto. It's the work of the town manager and the town staff. And I think that we're conflating all kinds of things into this. We do need some specifics, but let's get off of what we haven't even created. When we're having such difficulty addressing what we've already looked at over the last year or so. So that's my advice or comment. Pat. Yeah, that's that's really wise. I think that makes a lot of sense to me. Jennifer and then Mandy. Yeah, again, I just wanted to, before we move on, developing a waste taller bylaw that is feasible and includes universal compost pickup and pay as you throw fee structure that has to be there because that is what the bylaw is. We certainly have a waste taller system. The reason this bylaw has been proposed is to get those two very so that has to be back in. Otherwise, what's the bylaw. Yeah, I'm not seeing any opposition or hands. I just want to make sure that that uncrossed out before we move on. Sure. Yeah, Mandy. So I have a comment on that. I asked for it to be deleted. Kathy said it may be deleted. I think it should be deleted because of something that Michelle you said we've now added a solar bylaw in we've now we in further ones we have a rental registration bylaw. We've had zoning bylaw stuff and in none of them do we put what the goal of the bylaw is we just mentioned the bylaw. And so what makes this one different that has already been referred to a council committee. It's not like there's no proposal at all. It's already sitting in a council committee, the waste hauler bylaw, the work on it. And so what makes this one different that we have to describe its goals when we're not describing the goals of a rental registration bylaw we're not describing the goals and what needs included in a solar bylaw. And so I think for Michelle's point of keeping things sort of an equitable is not the word I would use consistent throughout the document on specificity, which is what GOL does consistency. We either need to add to all the other bylaw mentions goals and all or we need to delete it from this one and that's not to say we don't agree with what was here. But I'm not sure it's the appropriate place to put it. So I would delete it as that I believe I heard Andy and Kathy support deletion for which is why it's still deleted. Okay, so I'm going to ask for some help here. We have an issue that sounds like it could need some vote to be taken to decide whether we're going to delete or we're not going to delete. I want to be able to move on from this because we have other areas. So I'm going to look to Lynn, and just ask Lynn. Would this be in your mind something that we would take then to the full counsel for, you know, whether do we vote on specific items at times has that ever occurred in these documents if we can't come to a consensus. It does. That is what's called amending the document and you amend and vote. And would you recommend that we would do that here or that we would do that on Monday so this would be held out.  Mandy has control of the document I appreciate what Mandy's doing but it was there so we have to, you know, now figure out what is the amendment are we amending to delete it or are we amending it to add it back in that's where I'm a little bit lost here. I'm going to go to Athena because Athena has her hand raised and may have there. There could be a motion to add it or there could be a motion to remove it. You could vote either way so that we have a clean version to for the council to look at on Monday I think that's going to be the easiest way so think you could look for emotion either way on that. And I, Athena, would you prefer or advise that the motion be made with GL only or with all of the counselors present. That was going to be my point of order. Who's sending the document to the council on Monday. I feel GL is That's been the process right up to up to now so that makes sense. Yeah. I agree. Right at the end of this process. The GL members should vote to recommend to the council this document. Okay, so what we'll do is we're going to move on and we're going to we know that GL at the end has to vote on this document so at that point. If we want to have an amended motion we'll deal with that as a committee after we've gotten through our discussion on the rest of the items okay. All right. So let's go ahead and move on to community health and safety. And there are a couple things that are highlighted here. Mandy, did you highlight continue to support the revision of the residential rental bylaw at our last. So that is highlighted for all of the bylaws because of the council goal. If I page down that has it was a discussion on the relationship to the town council has provide appropriate support to council committees. And so the question was do any bylaws actually need referenced in the policy goals. Because once they've been referred to so if it's referred to a council committee so that's rental registration that's the waste hauler bylaw it's not the solar bylaw at this point. But you know it, do they need to be mentioned above in the policy goals, or in order for the support process, or is it enough in the other goals so that was why that one was highlighted here. The same reason that at one point the waste hauler bylaw was highlighted, does the council relationship with the council goal cover these such that these could be deleted. Anybody want to comment on that. Not seeing any hands right now. So the person who added reexamine and a feasible creative implementation plan and the bike and pedestrian plan. So that was the move from the conversation today. So we just need to know whether it's going where what place it's going. Okay, Lynn. I'm not fast enough, but I think it's important to keep the names of the bylaws that are among the goals in these because they really represent values of the council, and they represent a lot of work of the council. So even though we're saying the staff sports needed. I still think we should list the bylaws. That's my personal opinion. I like keeping the bylaws in because I do think that one of the things that we've, we've needed to emphasize is our need as a council for staff support and so Paul has has been able to do that and has indicated that staff are very much driven by our goals and so if we are going to want staff support having this in the goals makes sense to me. I would say the bike and pedestrian plan before the attack. I think that actually would go down under the stewardship infrastructure management maintenance and plan stewardship. That would be my opinion on where that goes. If it's helpful. Take it early. Yeah, I think that is, I think that is helpful. All right. So, and there did Paul have any questions on this goal. Okay. Okay, great. So, moving on to housing affordability, economic vitality. Did we have issue here. Did we have. I think the last meeting, this one was sailed through or where there are other comments I see Pam's and and I see Kathy so let's go to Pam. I sent you and then and then just recently Mandy Joe, some wording for an addition to the economic vitality would be a number four. Okay, by email Pam. I sent you by email correct and Mandy Joe by email and Lynn by email if you have that. Essentially, it's a recap of what the first speaker this morning mentioned, and that is this ongoing conversation about how do we support families because that's what we all keep saying that we want here in the, in the town. So it's essentially to study and recommend initiatives to promote a more child and family friendly town culture. Essentially with a goal of making the 10 more attractive to young families and first time homeboat home buyers. A full sentence might be more detail which we've just talked about adding or not adding but that would be study and recommend initiatives to promote a more child and family friendly 10 culture. Essentially friends, including childcare recreational and community building options with the goal of making the 10 more attractive to young families and first time home buyers. But I like, I like included yeah thank you there it is. I spoke with Matt a bit about this as well and I was just wondering if so a study I had thought to put this under community engagement. But it seems to fit here as well but that was my initial thought is to put the study under community engagement. As a way of sort of engaging our young families now that we have and renters and others. Let's go to Pam was that did that complete your thought on this one. Okay, great. Kathy. It either goes here, or later on financing, but again, I am worried as we get the list longer longer. And what you just added Pam I think all of us wouldn't mind assessing this. I don't know who's going to study it. I don't know who's going to recommend which staff person, you know, you know, like I'm just thinking what are we talking about here. So, I'm not going to comment that more but the exploring the possibility of an economic director position. So we talk about grant supported economic development director position. She's what I'm concerned about is that one of the ways we are one of the ways Paul and his staff had been able to stretch our budget beyond local resources is bringing in grant money. We brought in grant money for road sidewalks we brought it in for cultural issues. And I don't see any place that we're acknowledging that. So it's the word grant so I did I looked in financing to, you know, it's, it's, they did a remarkable job the whole staff group in the last year and bringing in money to the town. And that is that is an economic vitality because if we can particularly we can bring in outside resources so I don't have a wording here but I don't think we have the funds to add an economic development director, but maybe we have a grant funded way of doing this. We're looking at the state surpluses and I'm really worried that they're going to just give us back our tax money again and I shouldn't say that, because a lot of people are happy to get those checks, but I would rather they gave us grant money to do some of this work.  You know, you know, in terms of it wasn't just adding to an expense line it was enhancing a revenue line. So, I'll stop talking there but it's either here or later that I'm trying to figure out something that might be feasible, rather than Paul coming back to us and say I don't have the money to do that. That that was my reaction to the economic development, or even study. We've added a study here. You know, if there were funds to study, I could certainly see putting a group on this, but I'm just worried on, who are we going to, who are we asking to do what. I'll stop, because the school is as needless to say the elementary school is heavily on my mind what we're going to be asking of taxpayers and the amount of resources is going to take for the town. So, Okay, thank you, Anna. Thank you. I agree that number four, I believe should be under community engagement I agree with what Michelle said. I think Kathy you were you were starting to realize the number two right which is explore the funding possibility I think that you were doing the job for Paul which was great. It might be through grants but I think that for me, the freezing of explore the possibility of adding or funding I like funding more I think that phrasing makes sense. I don't I don't know that we need to specify through grants or otherwise I think Paul is as is very clear as the rest of us are that when we can fund things through grants that's amazing. Yeah, in my opinion that that's one of the options right that that's fine you know it's in my mind on it's just grant funded positions not a permanent position. I understand make it contingent so that's fine with the funding in. Yeah, and then the only other thing is you know I am. I'm still the phrasing of what Mandy just moved sorry Mandy. I just moved it so we can talk about it later. It still makes me a little bit uncomfortable that we're, we're trying to place a value judgment on who we want to comprise our community. And so I'm, I, I'm trying to sit with it and figure out because yes I would absolutely love to to say that we, you know we want a child and family friendly town of course we do. And are we in in phrasing this passing a value judgment on who should or should not be in our town and so I am trying to wrestle with that a little bit. And I haven't come to a conclusion and maybe when we come back around to it I will, but I also agree with what I think Kathy was saying which is one of the huge ways that we are moving towards this is hopefully passing an override to get a new elementary school right and so I think that there are some things that are moving here, but I also, I think that the emphasis on first time home buyers might just may not necessarily fit with all of the other elements that are in that paragraph and so I want to, I want to, that's something I mean I believe in all of the elements here I'm just trying to figure out the phrasing of it to make it not seem like a, like a value judgment of this is who we want and we don't want anyone else. Thank you. I like, I appreciate the emphasis on first time home buyers as a, as an element and believe that might fit back under the housing affordability part. Oh look, there it is. It's already there. Yep. Thank you. Thanks, Anna, Pam. Yeah, I appreciate Anna's comments on that item. I think encouraging staff or encouraging all of us to look for opportunities to enhance and facilitate, you know opportunities for kids certainly is benefits all of us, you know. I think it's not exclusionary I think it's, it's just reminding us that there, there could be a focus that impact would be an enhancement to anyone looking around going, she do I want to live here to live there. The school will certainly be a big part of that but so will other amenities or opportunities so I'd like to just keep it. All right. And you guys saw that your hand was raised. Did you want to comment on this. Yes, we're raised. Thank you. Okay. All right. So, any other comments on economic vitality. Okay, so it looks like we're already moving on to housing affordability. And I see Kathy's hand is raised. I have a question for the drafters of this. What do you mean by increase the diversity of housing stock available. And how do you think Paul, and his staff can do that. You know, so the first, I'm doing it in context so we have promote and increase home ownership. We've got a housing shelter and and strategies to stabilizing so is housing stock. We, I don't know what that means because later on we talk about zoning and different kinds of issues so I don't think the town manager or staff has control over the diversity. So do we mean you got it. I'll just, I'll just, and I don't know how diversity relates to affordability. So nothing is stopping anyone from building tiny houses right now, or in most parts of town you could do duplexes and triplexes, and people aren't building them because the market for them is not the market that they want to build for. So I'm just, it's purely a question on what do we mean by it. And how would we at the end of a year, figure out whether he had had anything so. And I'll stop because I think one of the diversities we're getting is through CPAC where Paul doesn't have direct control over what comes to them. But we have an extremely diverse set of housing projects that are coming through the Community Association Act with condos with apartments with shell, you know, small units for bring people up the street and give them. And we're, we've been very successful and that is my, I'm stopping. I just don't understand, I don't understand what it means. Kathy, before I go to Mandy, I just want to pause and do a time check here and ask Athena. So, and, and maybe Mandy. So the sewer regulations and the water and sewer bylaw both need to be taken care of or all three need to be taken care of today. I've, no, I've let Amy know that they may or may not be taken up today because I knew that the town manager goals were a priority. And they're still working through finance so I don't think we're expecting to put them on the agenda for the ninth. So we shouldn't feel pressure about that today. All three. So the sewer regulations and the water and sewer bylaw are all okay not to take up today. Yes. Okay, thank you very much, Athena. Mandy. So I'll try to respond to Kathy and then make my own comment so that increase the diversity of housing stock available to all residents is part of the comprehensive housing policy the council passed it's one of the goals. And so it comes from there, but what it means is make sure we have a variety of housing at a variety of price points. Not just single family homes, or not just single family homes at a high price point. Make sure the single family homes say are at multiple price points make sure there are duplexes and triplexes triplexes are actually under apartments right now so there aren't available for a lot of places in some of our residential areas because apartments aren't available in some residential areas. And so, so what can the town do versus zoning strategies right so some of it zoning strategies, but others of it are things that are AMHT has done, or that Dave Zomek and our, you know, as assistant town manager and, and his, as assistant town manager has done, which is look at land acquisition and then create an RFP that specifies a type of housing type. Okay, not just, you know, like, and so, you know, that ball lane of townhouses supporting that one over say something that would be just apartments up at ball lane, you know, gearing so I think there are things that the town staff can do, especially with some of the stuff that is going out on RFPs for. Okay, that that answers my question thank you. You're welcome and then my comment on Pam's request number five was Pam's other request. And I think it's covered in one and then probably in the finance section I haven't scrolled down to finance because anytime I scroll you scroll. I'm trying to minimize my scrolling, but you know, state. So first time home, you know, number one is prioritize initiatives to retain promote and I added into that, including first time home buyers but that was low and income home ownership opportunities and so I think five is covered mostly within that. And then we could look at the finance article to see if grant, you know, maximizing grant opportunities is covered in finance but I think it might be covered somewhere in the finance about grant opportunities. So I would delete number five not because I don't support it but I think it's just already covered. I think it's covered, I think it's covered there and I just want to say that CPA also has funded grants to support first time home buyers, you know so there is, and that brings in state dollars so I think number one captures all of it Pam, in terms of where that where that support would come from. So I'm agreeing with that. I think this is the an example of adding a lot of details, which are good, but aren't necessarily crucial to. Since we already have the goal in there or we already have one of the action items in there. Okay, so I agree with that. Okay. Do you have a second section. No, I was going to agree that it looks like it is covered as long as we beef up the finance portion as well. Okay, great. All right, any other comments on housing affordability before we move on. Okay. So moving on to major capital building investments. Yeah, I see your hand is raised. Okay. Kathy, you're muted Kathy. Yeah, I just, it's, it's kind of a comment on the Jones library one and to report in 2023 on the status of financing. I think we also have had and Paul and his staff are working on a plan B. So, and would people be willing to status a fine and a plan B if needed was what I was going to suggest because I'm a little bit worried that if we don't come up with several million dollars more financing will be left without a now how do we move forward and and and we asked him to do that. And he did the memorandum of agreement. So it's just a question of, are people willing to add that wording with a report on the status of financing and a plan B if needed. And Kathy, are you saying and maybe Anika would know also, are you saying that the building committee has already begun to think about and work on a plan B. So a little bit of that effort, mainly the town staff themselves, Michelle have been doing an assessment of it's clear that the HVAC system needs to be completely redone, you know, to fix the roof. So we have, we've had elements of it but going back into the building to say what would be the essential components of it. You know, there was never in the original sort of plan B there was never using space in a different way. It was mainly about ADA compliance and fixing the failing systems. You know, can we reuse the space. So I'm, I'm just really worried that we wait till November of next year, and we haven't raised the money, and we have a library whose HVAC system is really failing, you know, so it's, it's now emergency than, you know, just so that's it. And it may be that that's in the works and because on the building committee, I know it's, it's come up regularly but most the attention is on fundraising now and getting the expansion costs down. So Kathy, are you asking for a plan B to be developed now, regardless of whether the financing comes through in November, or are you asking that in November, if the financing doesn't come through a plan B be developed. I think what I'm asking for Michelle it's a great way you phrased it is I don't want to just get a report on financing that we don't have the money to do this building. Now we have to go to the drawing boards. I would like to have the kernels of a plan B if needed. So it's not now let's turn, I know we can't turn on a dime. You know, so it's just that we, we have the skeleton of it ready to go. So I'm, I am looking to both Lynn and Anika because this may be pushing this too far my concern that we don't know what we're going to do if we don't, if we can't afford the project. Okay, and I see that both Lynn and Anika have their hands raised, Lynn. I'm glad to have Anika speak to this first, although it's my understanding that the building committee is not working on plan B, but the town manager is working with the facilities people on a plan B. So I, I, that's my impression at least. I think what Kathy's trying to say and I, I'm hearing it loud and clear and that is that if they come forward in the fall of 2023 with a financing, the fundraising if you will. If it really doesn't seem like they're going to be able to reach their goal, then we don't want to wait. And for plan B and that has been the goal of the town manager all along. That has been the goal of, and it came out of when we did the memorandum of agreement. And the, the, the facility and the facilities people and the finance director, I believe have regularly been meeting with the library staff to look at what the plan B would be. So, I don't think it's unreasonable, but I think it would be best to say in a plan B if necessary. Because if he's doing it anyway, I'm just saying that we can, we can again pat him on the head for doing it. If we said we want you to do it. So it's why just and a plan B if necessary. So that was the way I wanted to write it, but I'm not going to push hard on this. I just think we do need one. And there's, there's one being developed. So I think that's consistent. Anika might went away and though, please. No, I think that you covered it. And, you know, also my concern would be just that if there are any changes that, you know, probably the trustees and at least Paul be consulted because we've, you know, the library has a certain amount of time to, to focus on fundraising and we'd want to make sure that we weren't doubling up, you know, work for them additionally at the same time. Thank you, Anika and Lynn, your hand is still raised. Is that just to hold over. Okay. All right. Any other comments or questions on this goal. All right. So let's move on to racial equity and social justice. And I, I noticed I think Mandy that the addition here of particularly the public safety departments was added. It's not consistent with the motion that was adopted on November 14. So I just, I have a question and perhaps it's about the addition on the other item under personnel management. If you would want to speak to that. So it was added at the request as, as part of a comment I received between the last council meeting in this one. And so that's hence the, the further discussion and all, but it was in response to a comment received and a request received from a counselor. So that counselor can speak up if they would like. Excellent. The town council was added for the same reason. So I see Pat's hand is raised. Thank you. One of the things one of one. I know, I'm sorry. One of the things that happened to me in the last meeting was Alicia's comment about the intimacy of police entering a home and, or any space. But particularly this idea of entering a home. And the one thing that I agree with many, many things but one of the other things that counselor Walker says is that anti racism training is ongoing and I know that in my own experience. I think that's what I'm thinking and needing to relearn learn again. And to me, the public safely, the police department, press fire and EMS enter people's homes they enter very intimate spaces I'm thinking about a man who had collapsed outside of the senior senior. The EMS dealing with him and then dealing with those of us who are observing because we were, you know, trying to figure out are the cops going to handle this correctly. Are they or is this man all right or all of the things that you go through or just your curiosity. I believe that this work needs to be done by the Amherst police department and great respect for many of the people in the department and what they're trying to do. I have great respect for the members of crests and our fire and EMS departments, but just like myself that they need ongoing anti racism work. The other thing that I, I, it's, it's there. It's talking about options. And all of the town staff to be doing this. So to me, the town council needs to be charged with attending and participating in ongoing work around anti developing anti racism, being anti racist, as long as we keep ourselves out of it. We're doing a disservice to our residents and we are then doing a disservice to public safety personnel, etc. If we need to walk the walk not just do the talk. And as shallow and I know it's very difficult to get this council together to focus on this as an idea that we need work as well. So I would like this tweet so that that maybe going back to starting with the public safety departments blah blah blah. And but adding town council, even before other staff because they've been doing some of that work, not just the police department but other departments, there have been staff trainers, etc. I don't have a lot of information about that. All right, and I think that's all I have to say right this second. Okay, would anyone else like to comment on this. Yes, Alicia. Thank you Michelle. So I wanted to support the adding of the town council, because I do agree with the sentiment that it would be helpful for not just town employees but town leaders and all of us to be following suit and these things I think it's very important to follow through and it would help to affirm our commitment and it's, you know, it's a learning process again it's very important to be following these things are not you know you can't just become anti racist it's an active thing that you have to continually participate in and continually examine and you know your behaviors and and the things that happen around you. And I think that I do agree with that, however, I'm still in disagreement with the. Yeah, the highlighted red part prior to what you're adding now, the public safety department's crest fire EMS and the police. I am troubled by this because I'm not understanding why the edit has taken out the starting with the PD. And so my frustration stems and and disagreement stems from the motion that I had proposed at a prior town council meeting, which is where this idea originated from. And that idea was asking the town manager to work with the PD to identify steps that the department can take to be to create an actively a proactively anti racist culture within the PD and that those steps be documented and reported to the council. And so that specific language and that specific motion, which has passed is what I was thinking of in terms of adding this to the town manager goals. And eventually my thought was that that motion had passed and ensuring that that is something that happens we're putting it in the goals. So I'm just like, still not really understanding why this is being edited. I don't necessarily not agree that all town employees should also ultimately be phased in. I do agree that the town council should be phased in I think that's a great idea. And I'm still just not understanding this reframing of something very specific that was passed. So I think that's where I still stand with that and I and I don't want to, you know, I think most of you know what my arguments are here for that but still not understanding why something that has already passed and should be happening can't just be clapped in the town manager goals as is like what is the need for editing for an initiative that has already passed. And Alicia before I move on to the other comments I just want to clarify that this particular number four here is different than under personnel management Mandy if you could just scroll down slightly. Under personnel management number five. This is where we talk about the proactive anti racist culture and this is where crest fire and EMS and police were added, which is not consistent with the motion that was passed on November 14. Additionally, number four up in where we were just looking at is adding those items also adds to the motion that was the big motion that was passed on November 14 with regard to the rights trainings. So there's just if we're thinking about keeping things consistent if we're thinking about the motions that we've already passed. I did pass a motion on November 14 that focused first on the APD with respect to anti racist culture. And there was an addition added here which I think Mandy will speak to. And so I'm willing to take these two together right now because I think that they sort of belong together in our discussion and so I'll just make that clarification and then go to Mandy and then. Sorry, thank you Michelle no thank you for that clarification because I am just realizing we were talking about the first highlighted red section and not the second one at the bottom of the page. So I do appreciate that clarification and I, my comments were more directed towards the objective under the personnel management section. Again, just to speak to the consistency which is what you're talking about. And if, and whether or not these are like two separate initiatives, or whether or not that objective is supposed to be like congruent with the other objective if those two things go together. So I think that will be one of my, like a question that I have, I guess, in response to that clarification. Because understanding that that is part of the other motion that was also passed. Why would not just both initiatives be added as is. Yes, and I think that's the question. Yeah, absolutely. Mandy. So, if we add both as is we don't include the town council number one. So if we add both as is racial equity and social justice gets rid of all of the red that's listed there. And Alicia you've said you support adding the town council to that one. Pat supports adding the town council I think a number of us say we should potentially add the town councils. So, you know, we either are willing to look at these and change them, or we're not at all. And if we are for one we should be for the other. And so, for the one down on personal personal management one of the things I would say is the motion that passed for that one because in drafting these I had to look up those motions were not was not foster a proactive anti racist culture throughout all town departments. That's not what that motion said that motion wasn't was working with the PD and only the PD to foster an anti racist culture in the PD. So, if we don't change that motion, we don't even talk about an anti racist culture in the entire town and I'm, I can't do that I think we need an anti racist culture in the entire town, which by itself requires changing that November 14th motion for this, this town manager council. And so, I think it's appropriate to modify language that was passed at when it when inserting it or working on inserting stuff into town manager performance goals to make those goals more inclusive. All town departments is certainly more inclusive. It's certainly I believe what our council would like to work towards. And so I don't, I, I, I basically would say in in my ideal world I would delete both phrases of starting with the public safety departments I would just say throughout all town departments personnel management, and I would say just employees under racial equity and social justice, but I don't think that would pass and so I see this language that Pat and I believe in Nica and some others have come up with and suggested and requested as a compromise between where I stand because we need it for everyone, and where Alicia and some others stand of, we only should be doing the police department first, because we need to include everyone. Thank you. So thank you for all the comments just to clarify and thank you Mandela my lens is not necessarily for the sake of compromising or you know any of the reasons that were brought up within public comment. My reason for this is just thinking about expanding the impact that we can make I mean, number one, we have departments that, you know, all over this town that to this day do not have a person of color in them have never for decades. Have just recently we've seen directors of color come in position so we do have entire departments that just by nature and for decades and sense inception have not been used to working with people of color and taking direction. And if we do not expand this we're not listening to our staff. I know who have in many departments gas for this. I do understand, yes, I don't think that there's a person here that doesn't understand the inception of the police and if you do not there is so much information to learn. However, you know I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you all today if I listen to. I'm not going to name the medical facility in Amherst, Massachusetts but I wouldn't be here today had I listened to them. And I think that while I've had experience with our EMS and EMT is that has been life saving to me health disparities within people of color or rampant they have increased dramatically. This was already the cases has increased dramatically over COVID, and I think this is an opportunity where I had again a positive very positive experience with our EMTs are also eyes and voices to see in this, you know, in transition, especially when it comes to black community and people of color. You know, I've walked my entire life, you know, as BIPOC I represent the be in the eye that did and I, you know, walking through the town and life in general this is not just applied to the police department. I think within the police department I think that it's clear is that they do have ongoing training and it's not to say that anyone can have enough and ever have enough but this is going on and then we have new departments like for instance Christ that have the least amount of training in comparison. So I think evening this out across the board and applying like if we're going to be a part of implementing an anti racist culture which yes trainings have the potential to do this. Why are we limiting this and why are we not placing this, you know, to everyone it doesn't mean that the police cannot be included. And it doesn't mean like really if you think about it doesn't mean they're not leading in many ways they are already leading. When it comes to the work that they're doing. And so I just, you know, those were my comments and in terms of just expanding the potential impact that the training could have for the entire community. Thank you Anika and Anika just to clarify, so you are suggesting the expansion on both number four in the racial equity and social justice and number five in the personnel management. Well I was speaking. I think my hand may have gone up too early I was speaking specifically to personnel management. Okay, okay thank you. Okay, Alicia. Thank you Michelle. I just wanted to clarify very quickly something Mandy Joe said in terms of me just wanting it to happen at the PD which is very not true. I just think, again, for reasons that I've stated multiple times in other meetings that this is an imperative first step. Not that that this should not happen across town that's not something I believe. So, I believe adding people like people departments, what have you to an initiative is not the same thing as completely changing what the initiative is itself. And so that is my issue. So, when Mandy Joe said like you know, adding the town council is changing the motion know it is not changing the motion itself is changing the motion adding more people and more departments to one motion is not necessarily this itself is not the motion that I propose that passed through the council, and I do not see this happen regularly that we go and edit things that have already passed through the council. I have not seen that happen to any other thing. So I am confused about those statements first and foremost. Also, I just still think there's some confusion as to what anti racism training is and what my intentions with this motion were and still are, and to be very clear. Anti racism is not adding people of color to departments, and just because a person of color works within a department does not at all mean that that department is anti racist. So just diversifying our departments while I agree with that and I think that is great that is not what I am focusing on right this minute. And so I think that is the trouble with what is happening here. While I don't think anything specifically of what anyone said is a negative thing. I think this is becoming way far too complicated and diluted. And so what I think is happening here is that we would like to see this happen across town. This cannot actively happen across all departments and be monitored and be tracked at the same time. If that is going to happen then how are we going to happen. How is that going to happen and is that going to be the job of the DEI director to monitor like there's so much more that would have to go into the conversation for something like that to happen. I don't think just simply adding and adding and adding people on to the initiative. It makes sense. Second of all the motion that I proposed said for the town manager to work with the PD to identify steps. So I'm not even just talking about anti-racism training. If we want to have anti-racism training across all towns as a part of whatever training package they already get. Or if we're just adding and training I think most departments have trainings on some sort of regular basis adding and anti-racism training that's great that is so simple and that is not what I'm talking about. Again anti-racism work is ongoing it's not just a training and to make to foster a department that has a proactively anti-racist culture is not to go take a training and then come back and continue work a business as usual. Then to use the trainings and whatever education you are getting on anti-racism to then use that as a reflection to the work that you're doing to make changes within your work and the environment the protocols the policies whatever have you that the department would identify itself. That is the part of the documenting the process that I was referring to in the motion that would then help to change the culture in certain departments. And so it's not just this act of having anti-racism training again which I think is great but that's not what I was trying to get to with this motion and so I think all of these different ideas which are great ideas are trying to get snowballed into this one idea. I don't think does justice to any of these initiatives. And again when we say the town manager is overloaded and he has so many things to do and look at all these things he's working on. Why would we oversee the whole entire town and all of the departments doing this at the same time. Why would that be the answer to adding this rather than identifying where the most profound impact can be had and starting there. And then that way that can facilitate the process and maybe even start serve as a footprint per se for the other departments to follow. Thank you, Alicia. Mandy. A couple of things. First, I want to apologize to Alicia. My wording must not have been very good. I did not mean to intend that you don't want to see an anti-racist proactive a proactive anti-racist culture in all the town departments that was not what I intended to imply. So I think that your motion started only with the police. And that motion actually was not to foster a proactive anti-racist culture so if we're talking about your motion specifically from November 14, number five would read to assist the APD in building upon current efforts and identifying steps to develop a proactive anti-racist culture in the APD and that it be documented in regular updates be provided to the council. I wouldn't have anything to do with any of the other town departments because that's not what your motion said. Your motion was focused specifically on APD. And so, if you're insisting on keeping your motion and not changing any of the wording, number five will not refer to all town departments at all, because that's not what the November 14th motion said. Number five will not refer to all town departments with a start with the APD. It said, assist the APD in building upon current efforts and identifying steps to develop a proactive anti-racist culture. Number five right now, as worded here, says foster a proactive anti-racist culture throughout all town departments. So in some sense it's expanding upon your motion in a way I look at to say it's even better than your motion, but it expands it to all town departments. And it says we're going to foster that proactive anti-racist culture, not just identify steps to develop a proactive anti-racist culture, we're going to foster it. So I see it as a stronger wording than anything the November 14th motion said. Then we take that and say, you know, this is where I've struggled with because I would like our DEI department to determine which department we should start with. But that's where I get to the compromise between stopping at all town departments and Councillor Walker's desire to just list it as police and say, well, let's talk, let's start with all public safety departments because they all go into homes. They all have the ability to affect people's health and life and death situations, especially by our EMS when they're responding to life and death situations. And so I think this language in number five is for personnel management is the best 13 councillors can get to, given motions that have been passed, given where 13 different opinions are, and that expands on the November 14th motion that did pass this council. Okay. So it's 1115 and most of the GL members have indicated they need to leave by 1120. I need to leave by 1125. So, Lynn, I do not believe that we're going to get through this matter today. I don't believe we're going to be able to get back to the climate justice, or excuse me, climate action, or through the rest of the items that we have here to deal with. So I'm looking to you to see what you recommend. I had trouble on muting. I would recommend that the GL forward the goals to the extent that you can resolve the ones that you have discussed, and leave open the others, and we'll take it up at the council meeting I have said this consistently. It is unfair to the town manager and his staff to not adopt these goals at the very beginning of January at the latest. Okay. Okay, so we will not come out with a recommendation we will set aside the items that haven't been agreed upon, and those will be discussed on Monday at the council meeting. But all of the other items, would you like us to have a motion for the items that we have come to consensus on or that there is agreement upon and exclude the items that have not yet been completed in that motion. I could say you that. I think you should recommend that the GL forward the town managers goals as they presently stand and include in it, the identification of where there's further discussion needed. Excellent. Okay, thank you. Clearly, it will not be under the consent agenda. No, no way. Okay, thank you. Thanks a lot, Lynn. Okay, so I see that I wanted to come back to Alicia to respond to Mandy because they were and then I see a Nica's hand is raised and Pam's hand is raised. And then we will end discussion will make that motion and, and we will close out the meeting. So Alicia and then a Nica and Pam. Thank you, Michelle. I will shorten my comments to just to two responses that I had to Mandy Joe and one of them being how do you think one would foster an anti racist department without identifying the steps that need to be taken. And so, to me, that that is the point of the motion that I said you identify the steps yes the thought is then that those steps are carried out. Those steps identified how do you then foster that environment. So I, I again stand very strong by the original motion that I proposed. And I understand that some counselors may feel more comfortable with the DEI determining which department goes first however this is a motion that has already passed. I mean, to be completely honest, I'm feeling very frustrated with the pushback on this initiative that has already passed when there are plenty of council initiatives that I have not agreed with personally that are in this document here but that have passed the council. And so I'm not spending my time arguing things that I don't personally agree with that have already passed on the council. And I feel like it's completely disrespectful, as, you know, was said before to me and my initiatives and the things that I'm bringing forward on the council. I understand that I don't expect for all 13 counselors with very different life experiences and different views to agree, but something that has already passed should be respected by the council. And that is how I'm feeling right now. So thank you Michelle for giving me another moment to speak and opening the GOL meeting to all counselors. Absolutely. And I will speak more to this on Monday but I want to strongly strongly support Alicia in this I think that we passed a motion. I think that we're talking about two different things here in racial equity and social justice and personnel management I'm very comfortable under the racial equity and social justice including their departments and I don't think that means we can't include other town departments in the process of saying that we're going to begin with the APD and I think that it would really undermine our process, if we were not to include that and I would even go as far as saying that I think including the language from the institution specifically as number five would be a very, very solid way to do this. But I think we'll have more time to discuss this on Monday. Yes, so I'm sorry that you feel disrespected. Alicia that's certainly not my intention. I do not see this as editing so to speak taking out anything from your motion I think but you know we are a group of 13 here and I think this is really just asking for expansion and also seeing others. But I wanted to just clarify if there was a misunderstanding for what I said, when I'm talking about the town town departments and being some of the some of them which have no staff members of color some who have recently have that addition. I'm not talking about that is that's it being okay check off boxes. I'm talking about just within cultures that have not included people of color within departments that haven't and now you have people there. We have received comments within staff that have have been within departments that, you know, talk about the culture that they're in. And so I think for us not to ensure that this training is going on there. I mean, I think we see consistently across the board when being, you know, being experienced or dealing with the people of color for the first time, you know, I think we can see how that can can go awry. And so I think that that import that training is important there and consistently across the board to to allow for all staff and through all departments and I do not see how that has to water down or take away from the police department. Thanks, Nika Pam. So this is kind of a mundane question where can we where will we be able to see this document in its present state where will it be posted. As soon as we get it. Athena and I are working on the finalizing the agenda this afternoon at two, I mean at one, and we'll start putting stuff in the packet immediately. If you would like it in a word version, I can make sure we send that to the full council. Okay, thank you Lynn Jennifer. So we, if we want to propose edits. Do we just put it into the word document or do we send it to Lynn, since it's going. It all amendments that are made during council meetings should be sent to Athena and me no later than noon on the day of the meeting. So that's one of the things that we need to reemphasize. So what you should do is send it as an email to Athena and me, and you should say I, I will, I would like to propose the following amendment at the meeting and then that way, Athena can put it up on the screen during the meeting. And we don't have to wrestle with finding the documents. It's for another time but I do appreciate what Alicia saying that it's concerning as a precedent that if the council or majority of the council votes on a motion that you know then it can't be included in a document. I just think that that I don't know when we have that conversation, but that that is something that I that is a concerning precedent. I think that's a very good conversation for the council to have. And that, and I think that I will stop with that. Okay. Thank you. Kathy unless it's pressing I really have to go right I can turn this over to Anika if folks want to stay but I can, I have to go. I have a quick Mandy and Scribner. There are a few places where I am G is still by the verb, because you didn't pick it up. So if you can just fix those I don't want to have to make those edits. Okay, great. So the moat we need to. So I think Lynn needs to adjourn the council meeting. The meeting is adjourned at 1125. Thank you for taking the time today. This has been a very useful discussion. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks to all the counselors who attended as well. So I have Mandy I don't know what you've been working on over there if you've had a motion working up I tried to type quickly up what Lynn suggested, which is a motion to forward the town manager goals as they stand on council with the following items still open for discussion. The items I did not fully get that list completed yet so has anyone else been working on a motion on this as we've been talking. And does that motion work. Just can we see the documents so we know what I just want to make sure. Yeah, we're still open. Some of, you know, so I can go through some of the things that are still open. But I don't have time to review it for all the ings I'm trying to do that now, you know, like it depends on if we vote that motion. Am I not changing anything including the language we talked about in the intro that we all agreed needs reworded but I haven't, I don't have time to reword it during a meeting. And so, and I can't then clean up some of the stuff to accept changes so it looks. So, you know, so I don't know what the best motion is. I really don't. Do you have time to do that today before you would forward it to the town council, like the items that we've agreed to, like the language and things like that. I would normally clean it up before we send send it on. If that motion passes. I can't do any of that cleanup. So what we say motion to forward the town council, the town manager goals. As they stand. Michelle, can I suggest that we just, we just don't have a motion. The committee is not making a recommendation. And I think it's, you know, it can be assumed that without a recommendation, the council is just going to take it up with those edits that have been discussed today. Excellent. Okay, any problems with that from GOL members. I think that's best. Okay, perfect. Alrighty. So I apologize that we're not getting too many of the other items on our agenda today. Our next meeting is this was an added meeting. So, we haven't adopted a calendar yet Athena is our next meeting the 11th. Do you know I have the 18th on my calendar. Okay. All right. So, and at that meeting we will adopt a calendar for going forward. So if there are agenda items that you have. We have pretty much a full agenda but please send them to me and I see that Jennifer and Mandy still have their hands. No, no, no. No. Okay. Are there any other comments or questions at this time. Okay. Thank you all very much. And I'm going to adjourn the meeting at 1128 a.m. Thank you. Thank you. Good. Good job, cherry. Thank you. Thanks a lot. All right. Bye bye.