live from the Computer History Museum in the heart of Silicon Valley. It's theCUBE, covering OpenStack Silicon Valley 2016. Brought to you by Morantis. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier and Lisa Martin. Hey, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Silicon Valley for OpenStack Silicon Valley or OpenStack SV. The hashtag on Twitter to follow the conversation is OSSV16. This is Silicon Angle Media's theCUBE. We're a flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signals and noise. I'm John Furrier with my co-host, Lisa Martin. Our next guest is Matthew Lodge, CEO of WeaveWorks, also former VMware but also on the Linux Foundation, Cloud Native. Cloud Native Computing Foundation. Cloud Native Computing Foundation. CUBE alumni, welcome back, good to see you. Great, thanks. It's good to be back on. So a lot of things going on in your world. Obviously, we'd love to just talk about former VMware and the trajectory of that is. But now with the cloud exploding, hybrid cloud to center of it, nothing more hotter than cloud native, which means basically app-friendly environment that requires a lot of coolness underneath the covers. Like dockers, like Kubernetes, all yet not baked out yet, but getting there. Give us your thoughts on the current landscape of cloud. Well, I think one of the goals of the Cloud Native Computing Foundation is to accelerate the adoption of that style of architecture and that way of building software. I think the big difference here is that this is about applications. So it's really about trying to empower software developers to build faster, better applications, more effective, more resilient. So there's distributed systems design. So it's a little different to some of the previous shifts that would be more about infrastructure. So I got to answer the question because Dave Vellante, who's not, couldn't make it here. We talk about this all the time because it's our seventh year doing theCUBE. In 2010 at VMworld, Paul Moritz laid out the architecture. Which essentially is the cloud native concept now where the moves have been different and awkward at the time but as it evolves, it's playing out almost exactly the way he laid it out. Applications at the top of the stack, playing nicely with some sort of orchestration, middleware layer, and then obviously infrastructure is code, if you will, underneath. So it's kind of all playing out. Do you see it the same way and what's the current version of the map? Well, I think, I mean, Paul is a great visionary. So it's not really a surprise that it's very similar to what he was thinking about in terms of architecture and what he was trying to do with VMware at the time. I think the big thing that wasn't around then was containers and that has turned into this really great enabling technology for this style of architecture. It must have made it a lot easier to make that transition. Because we've been here before in things like service-oriented architecture and similar sort of architectural approaches previously but the execution wasn't really there in the way that it is now. And then from our perspective, we are seeing a big uptake in customers who have chosen to adopt containers and are looking to figure out how the best way to do that. It's not a question of will we do this or we're kicking the ties. It's like we are going to do this. Can you help? So I've got to ask you, this is really interesting conversation because we have a little historical perspective now but this really comes down to architecture and one of the questions I get all the time here on theCUBE and also out in the wild when I'm walking the streets of Palo Alto or Boston or wherever is the number one question is, I want to move to the new world. I want to move my business and be transformative. I want to get the trophy. I want to drive top-line revenue. I want to do better things. And it never seems to be a technology conversation per se. Here's some stuff to work out but it's an architectural mindset shift. Can you share with the folks that shift and what that preferred architecture is? And kind of take a minute to explain that because I think that seems to be the one thing that people seem to be asking for. Yes, the thing that people are after is agility. They want to go faster. That's the business driver for all of this and that's why they care about it if they're on the business side and not on the technology side.  You didn't necessarily write any software yourself. Today you're trying to compete with Airbnb who has a really slick application and a nice website. And so writing software yourself is now part of competitive differentiation. It is part of the value your customers perceive of you. And so- First outsourcing some contract firm or- Yeah, or taking something off the shelf. Right? And you're looking to be different. General purpose software. Right. And so that has changed. So a lot more organizations care about writing software than ever before. And then they want to write software the way that Facebook and Google and Amazon and all of those guys do it, Netflix, all those guys. And so Netflix has really popularized a lot of the sort of architectural approaches and the patterns here. And containers makes it much, much easier to follow that same model. You know, it was quite difficult before. You know, Netflix was way ahead of everybody else. Containers make it much, much easier. And so that style of architecture lends itself very well. And that's why in the charter of the Cloud Native Computing Foundation we're talking about it being container-based. Because that is the substrate that all the stuff is running on. So that's what the business people are all about. So let's break down that architecture. I know agile is not necessarily an architect. It's a concept and methodology. What architecture specifically containers would be in an architectural component? What are the other things that hang around that? How does it hang together? So they're breaking down into microservices. The idea that you can take an application decompose it into these individual pieces rather than having lots of people working on one big code base, having lots of small code bases. And when you do that, lots of things change. Right, in the past, you had one code base so you'd pick one language for your application. Because everybody had to write on the same code base, right? So you couldn't have people write in different languages. Well now in microservices you can. If there's some part of your application that needs a functional language and that's a better way to solve that problem, you can write a service in a functional language and it doesn't matter. Pick the tool for the job. Pick the tool for the job. And make it a microservice. Same with databases. You had to all agree, you end up with Oracle database because that's got all these features you need to do everything in your application. Well now maybe there's something better for time series data. And there's a different database for unstructured data and then maybe there's Oracle for your relational stuff and transactional integrity. And so it's really changing the way that software is being written. So speaking of change, one of the things that was talked about earlier today and a number of times in the program is the cultural change that's needed to enable companies to become more competitive. How are you seeing enterprises with traditional enterprise applications trying to manage that and embrace cloud native applications? How are you seeing them do that successfully? So what we're seeing is that they pick a project where they think something in cloud native and container-based is going to help them be successful. And so they pick something that is important but is not sort of bet the farm. And they put a team together and what we see is that that team works together and they're trying to figure out what is their new stack going to be, right? And how are they going to orchestrate this application? How are they going to architect it? How are they going to organize? And then they're going after that and building it out and learning from that experience and then picking the next project to maybe something a little harder. So out of customer last week, they're going to start with all of their stateless services for their website, right? So all the things, they're going to avoid some of the hard problems around persistent data and some of the other challenges and start with all the stateless stuff. And they're going to do that first, they're going to learn from that experience and go from there. So the iterative approach, picking something that's important but not too important seems to be pretty successful. And so that's helping them to be able to launch things faster to be more competitive or is that in some cases an inhibitor? It's helping them to launch things faster and be more competitive. And it's also helping them build applications that are less fragile. So there's the expectation of 24 by seven availability for everything, right? So they need to be able to do that. In terms of growth, wanted to pick your brain on some of the collaboration that we've has done within this community, this open source community. How are you leveraging the community to grow and really seize new opportunities for Weave? So, as an open source company, it really is all about community in terms of how you build the product in the first place, the interaction you get from open source but also being able to work with other open source components. And that's one of the things the CNCF is keen to do is incubate different open source projects. So for example, the second project into the CNCF is Prometheus. So we're adopting Prometheus as our monitoring and time series and all of the data for Weaveworks products. And so being able to collaborate that way and work with other organizations also interested in similar challenges. How do you monitor distributed microservices based application? Open source has really emerged as the way to manage that kind of collaboration. Tell us about the open source foundations and the community here because we've been following OpenStacks there from the beginning. Of course, I was very critical of the foundation it felt like a marketing program but they quickly changed and became very code oriented. Remember the second, third year was vote with your code, changed at the top and then really since then there's been a great trajectory really driven by I'd say hardcore open source coders but yet an eye on the prize. They've zigged and zagged, dodged some bullets if you will. Certainly the growth on Amazon is just spectacular. As yours come in, elbows fly in. Yet it's healthy and it's survived and on the peak of thriving. Right. What's your thoughts on that next step? What needs to happen for OpenStack and OpenCloud to thrive? I think it's really at a turning point. I think the Morantis announcement under Craig McClucky and I think Brandon from Coro is talking about this this morning here at the conference. And the realization that it's about this shift onto this next model of architecture that we've been talking about here. And so the question for OpenStack is what is OpenStack's role in that environment? Because you could say, well I can run I can run all my stuff on containers now. So why do I need to run VMs? And I was talking to a technical architect or one of the bigger players and so they have customers like that now where they have all these very long lived VMs running on these OpenStack clouds and they're running Docker. So there is a lot of churn and a lot of software development and lots and lots of change going on that's happening at the container level and not at the VM level. The convenience of containers is quite interesting disrupting the VMware market or virtualization. Well anybody who's focused on the VM right it's a challenge for you. So it's true for VM over it's also true for OpenStack. So the question for OpenStack is okay if I'm thinking about my next, what do I roll out? Do I roll out Kubernetes or do I roll out OpenStack? Do I have limited balance on the team? Is that what's the right thing to do here? And so figuring out what OpenStack becomes in the future I think is a key question for that community. And you think that they're in a good position to solve that problem? Well the interesting thing about OpenStack is it's gotten broader, right? So it's not just about running VMs. You've got identity services and your storage and your different flavors of storage. You've got all kinds of different projects. You've got things for running, managing bare metal that are still very relevant. So you've got all these different components but maybe in the future OpenStack looks different really just for that. Sorry John, one of the things that they were talking about in that context this morning was this need to, it's not us versus VMs containers bare metal. It's and with. So looking at some of these larger enterprise organizations is your vision that they're going to have to coexist very well OpenStack with these other players in order for them to succeed just as these enterprises were dependent on OpenStack to be competitive? Well I think if you've already deployed OpenStack it definitely is and. The question if you haven't though it is an either or decision because OpenStack is a big, complex thing to deploy. And that's always been the criticism of OpenStack and it's why you've got really great services with people like Mirantis and IBM and Red Hat and who've got it down to an art for like we're going to make this easier for you. But the question for an organization is if I'm really trying to serve my developers what do I really want to focus on? What do I want to spend my time and my resources and that adoption? And so I do have to make choices. Matthew, talk about what you're working on now. What are you excited about? The Cloud Native Foundation certainly is fun. But you also are chief operating officer of a company. Weaveworks, I see surprisingly, not surprisingly microservices and containers. So hence a little bit of bias but I think it's right on the money. I don't think it's bias in the sense of over bias. Those are the people we talk to, yes. I mean that's, we are seeing the same thing. But what are you guys working on? How's business? Give us an update on what Weaveworks is doing and what you're excited about. So Yeah, Weaveworks is primarily known and the first thing we did was networking for containers and making it very easy to deploy your application across multiple hosts, multiple Docker hosts and making that very simple. And then we graduated from there into understanding, okay, I rolled out my application, I wired everything together and that was into doing and that's WeaveScope was our second major product and that's going very well. So for us, you've seen a lot of adoption of WeaveNet, it's a crucial challenge that many customers need to solve and then WeaveScope is picking up as people realize, okay, now I built this thing and I'm having a hard time really understanding what's going on and I have different problems now with microservices than I had with applications in the past in VMs. Because I could go look at the VM and I could look at CPU and memory and IO and I got a pretty good idea of what's going on. It's not like that with a microservice. So would you agree that automation which is everyone strives to get to, obviously that's pretty, not well, doesn't need to debate that but getting to automation, the challenge is you have to see it and understand it before you can automate it, right? It's kind of like common sense if you think about it. Do you agree with that statement? I think that's true, but I think even folks who have automated, they're like, well, is it actually doing what I think it's doing? And we saw this ourselves, we were developing this sock shop example demo application for microservices and we saw this container like appearing and disappearing in the live view and we're like, what's going on there until there was a bug and it was actually crashing and restarting. You automated the wrong task. It was great. Scaled up the bug. It ran most of the time. It said it would crash and restart. And so we didn't really notice because it kept working because it kept restarting, but that's the problem. Plus the problem with scale, right? The scale is you scale what you have, right? If it's good, it scales great. If it's got a little tweak in it, it could go off skew out, right? So that's a problem. So management software is a big part of what we're seeing. State of the Union there real quick, where we are with that, what's interesting, what we saw with management tooling is when AWS came along, it opened up opportunity for new players, right? And you saw a new relic emerge from that as a really strong management offering designed for cloud, a cloud infrastructure, a cloud AES. So we think the same thing is happening again with microservices because it's not just about running VMs now, it's also, it's about understanding the aggregate behavior of all your containers in a microservice and sort of being able to connect the dots for all those. Matt, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate the insight. Great to talk microservices, orchestration, all this great stuff. Thriving, surviving and thriving, that's the theme here at OpenStack Summit, continuing to mystify the skeptics who have predicted its death years ago. So congratulations on your success at the cloud native foundation and we'll be following you there. This is theCUBE, I'm John Furrier, Lisa Martin live in Silicon Valley. We'll be right back with more signal from the noise after this short break.


Many people can agree with me, they have had a few bad moments in their childhood that they wish to forget. Unfortunately, it is these things that are so easily burned into people's memories. Have you ever had a time in your life when you would try to remember the good things in the past, only to remember something embarrassing or shameful? Sometimes, people go for years without even thinking about anything of it. That is, until they find something that triggers that particular memory they never wanted to come back to, and with it come feelings of nausea and paranoia. That is what happened to me. In this particular day, it was raining. You would walk down the street to see pedestrians taking shelter under bus stops or in big coats, holding an umbrella. I myself lost holding one, frustrated by countless strong winds blowing it back. I was strolling down the marketplace looking for some cheap groceries. I wanted to get home quickly, as the weather wasn't the best. As I was bagging some goods, I turned my head to see a table covered with old stuff. Taking a closer look, I could see it had boxes filled with VHS tapes lined up on their sides. Most of them were rather old children's shows such as Bob the Builder and Thomas the Tank Engine. None of them looked pirated, to be honest. One video case I saw was labeled, Teladibies. I know I am too old to be interested, but for some strange reason, I had the urge to buy it. I picked it up to look at it. What I saw made me jump slightly. I saw the image of a bear. As previously mentioned, some things really bring back bad memories almost instantly. As soon as I saw that bear, so many things had gone into my mind. Horrible things. Things I just can't even get myself to say. These thoughts made me really shaky and nauseated. Despite my feelings, I gave the cashier his money and put it in a bag with all my other things. When I looked back up, the cashier just smiled at me. Not to have a nice day's sort of smile, but more of a I'm glad you dotted smile. I didn't smile back, I just walked away, trying to get to my car. As I drove home, all I could think about lost that bear. I would go on to one thought then just end up thinking of it again, each time bringing that sudden feeling of fear. When I got home at about 6 PM, I put the tape to the side, while I sorted my food out. Once I was finished, I knew that the only thing I could do was watch the tape. After setting up my old VHS recorder, I stood and stared at the tape again. This time, I noticed features that I previously gave no attention to. There were no company logos or symbols in the case, and no information on the back. I opened the case to see that the tape had nothing on it but the words he saw, written in black marker. I rushed to put the tape in, hoping to get it over and done with. I saw that the tape was almost halfway through, so I rewound it to the beginning. When it was done, I pressed play to see that it was nothing but black. I fast forward the tape, until it was on the same place it was, before I rewinded it. Strangely, this was right before the images actually appeared in screen.  I sat down, and pressed the play button. Walk lost clearly the opening for the teletubbies had begun, with the theme music playing quietly. The music was filled with static noise and a high frequency buzzing. I noticed that it must have been cut, skipping the sunbathe and the logo. I couldn't help but notice the image had horrible quality and appeared, as if the tape lost decades old. The image was shaky and had a layer of static that constantly fuzzed. The color was also really bland and gray. As the teletubbies ran down the hill, the film suddenly cut to them staring forward at the camera. It cut again to view an empty field with small hills. The music stopped suddenly. An image obviously saw flashed on screen, with a little boy in each side, moving it up and down. The field then came back into view. The only thing you can hear now was that buzzing. A small figure appeared in the distance of the field. The buzzing noise became louder. The seesaw image flashed on screen again. The buzzing momentarily silences, as in a choi voice of a laughing woman could be heard slowly getting louder. The image flashed again. The screen slowly zooms into the distant object as the buzzing noise came back. The woman's voice slowly echoed. I'm coming, I'm coming. A high-pitched screech was audible, as it slowly zoomed. A face briefly flashed on the screen. Things started to get tense. At this point, I was too frightened to turn the volume down. I'm coming. I'm coming to get you. I looked behind me and quickly looked back. As the screeching became louder, more static could be heard. Random images of children flashed on the screeny very few seconds, as the camera finally zoomed in until the figure filled the screen. I am the bear, and I am coming. The horrific sound of children crying could be heard. The camera began to zoom into the bear's face, as the seesaw flashed on screen again. I'm coming, I'm coming. I'm coming to get you. The image flashed on screen again. The seesaw had stopped, and the children were just staring blankly at each other. The camera had finally zoomed in to full view of the bear's face. Its mouth moved up and down, as it echoed. I'm coming to get you. And I will get you. He bear's eyes began to spin around. The image flashed on screen. A blood-covered seesaw peered, and loss surrounded by what appeared to be human remains. The dead bodies of young children appeared out of nowhere and caused the seesaw to slowly move up and down. They were just laying there, their clothes soaked in blood. The sound finally stopped. I sat and stared at this image for a minute, before it went black. Needless to say, after that minute had passed, I immediately grabbed the tape out of the machine and threw it in the bin, along with the case. That night, I couldn't sleep. I couldn't stop thinking about what I saw. I had to frequently check my windows. This couldn't have lasted all night, as, when I sat down to try and calm myself, I must have finally fell asleep. The next morning, I had work I needed to finish on my laptop. As I was checking my nails, I stared at my desktop background. It was a photo of me and a friend in a field. I saw a small figure on it that I don't remember being there before. I found the original image in my files and zoomed in on it. It was the bear.


Hello everyone, and thanks for coming to the Science Festival event organized by the Wisconsin Academy of Sciences Arts and Letters. I'm Jennifer Smith, and I'm the director of the Academy's nighttime series of talks called Academy Evenings. To find out what else we have going on this fall, please pick up one of our orange season schedules, things like this, and they're right by the back door. We have a lot of other great things going on, so please grab these things already. Today we have a special Academy afternoon featuring our conservator, Joan Gorman. And following this, we actually have another Science Festival event today. At 3 o'clock, chemist Robbie Schreiner will give a demonstration and talk down at our James Waffles Gallery, which is on the third floor of the Overture Center. His talk is about color perception, and it ties in with our gallery exhibition called About Seeing, which features the work of artists whose careers have been affected by visual impairments. But right now I'd like to introduce Joan Gorman. Joan is a senior paintings conservator at the Midwest Art Conservation Center in Minneapolis. She joined the staff there in 1989. She has exceptional training and experience in the conservation of both historic and contemporary paintings. She was the lead conservator working on the protection and restoration of the wonderful jumps to occurring murals in this building when it was under renovation a few years ago. Joan holds an MFA degree and certificate for advanced study in the conservation of fine art from the State University of New York at Buffalo. She also has a master of museum practice degree from the University of Michigan. As you may know, John Stuart Curry was artist in residence at the UW from 1936 until his death a decade later. While it's not unusual these days for a university to have an artist in residence, Curry was the first at any American university. And what makes it really fascinating is that he was invited to Madison by a College of Ag and Life Sciences. Cal's has a long history of bringing culture and agriculture together and the Curry residency is a great example of that. While Curry was here he created murals out in the stairwell that you can see called the Social Benefits of Biochemical Research. There are some additional murals in the conference room that you can also see while you're here. Typically that room is locked but we've made sure it's open today so please don't miss that after the talk. Then Joan has said that she can walk down there with us and we can look at this and you can ask questions together. So I think that will be really wonderful. I'd also like to find out Biochem Professor Dave Nelson who's over here. He's also extremely knowledgeable about John Stuart Curry and can also answer your questions. Now please join me in welcoming Joan Borman. It's an exceptional fall day. I'm not sure I would be here. It's just so beautiful so thank you. Can we bring down the lights just a little bit to enhance our visuals? Just a little bit more. Open. No. Can you step down? Okay. Well what's that about you? Yes. I can't be there. Well as Joan said I'm Joan Borman. I am very familiar with this building. I first came here in 2006 to examine in detail the murals that I'll be talking about today.  First of all disclaimer I am not a scientist. I am an art conservator which is a combination of veritable skills and great knowledge of the history of conservation, the history of art, and spattering of physical sciences mainly applied sciences. So we're not scientists. We don't even pretend to be. But we do utilize a lot of them. We'll steal anything that makes our job better. Just a word about the organization, the artwork, the Midwest Art Conservation Center is located in Minneapolis. It's been there for over 30 years. We're housed and have been from the beginning in the Minneapolis Institute of Arts, which is a fabulous arts organization. Beautiful museum. We've never been there. And you happen to be in Minnesota. Do stop by and see it. This is a regional art conservation lab. And it's very old mom. It goes back to the early 50s. In the 50s there were very few professionally trained art conservators. So this concept of a regional art conservation lab was developed where a lab would have a membership of cultural institutions, art museums, historical societies, universities, churches. You know, whatever organization, not the proper organization, have a collection could be a member of the organization. While this model persists all these years later, over 16 years later. We have quite a large staff. We have two paintings conservators, two objects conservators, two conservators who work exclusively on works of art on paper, a textile conservator. And we also have an educational department that goes out into the field and helps smaller institutions with their many problems of storage, exhibition, administration, registration. So it's a very active lab. We have now over 200 institutional organizations and no lack of work. We also do work for private imagoes and collaborations. Here's a little photo of our paintings' lack. Nothing high-tech. It runs like a little boat. Everything hits a place. Nothing sitting around that we don't use because we don't have the space. Space, the final frontier. If you have it, you'll fill it. Now, this is typical of what my colleague David Markey and I do as a smaller...  It's a German bridal portrait. It would have been accompanied by a portrait of the woman's groom. It's 12 inches by 12 inches. And while it was very, very small, it had... It needed, and even I call it, everything. It needed everything. You can see a horrible discolored varnish, a great rent through the face, another tear down in the bodice, flaking paint in the lower right corner. I mean, it was... This is more typical of our work. Another example of anisopay. This is quite large. It's probably 35 by 25 inches. Really stunning landscape by a Canadian artist. This is from about the 1850s, 1840s. His name was Lumans, Charles Lumans, run not exclusively in Canada, but extensively in Canada and the United States. It turns out he had two families, one in both countries. There was a reason to work on both sides of the border, but fatness came as recent confidence. You know, this is what we do. But we also have a long history of working on murals. Here I am on a little scaffold, fairly modest scaffold, in a small little Catholic church in, oh, about the middle northeastern area of Minnesota.  Once we made sure that roof was sound, we went in and restored a little bit at the top with the figure of God and the firmament with the Holy Spirit represented over him. It was gold leafed, well maybe metal leafed, and someone had scrubbed off all of the little, had been metal leafed, and then the artist had gone in and made little mosaic squares just for paint. It was a little wish, of course, but someone had gone in and scrubbed off all of the little paint and we restored that. There was just enough evidence to connect the dots. So those projects are very, very interesting because there are problems solving on a scale that we don't normally get with the stuff we carry around by ourselves. David and I have always enjoyed doing mural work, which of course brings us to the John Stuart Curry murals at Biochemistry. They were wonderful murals, and they are meaningful on many, many levels. This is sort of a working shot that a photographer from New Zealand used to, but kind of dramatic. You're looking at the mural in the foyer, which we'll see in a little while. This is during the last stages of the project. So what brought conservators to a major project at the University of Wisconsin at the Biochemistry Department? Obviously there are murals, but there were two reasons why we were here. And the first was that the University was planning a major, well, the Biochemistry Department at the University, was planning a major expansion of the campus of biochemistry. Very important work has been done in this department. And it continues. And the need for research facilities is constant, I'm sure. And what you're looking at is in the lower left corner is University Avenue. And there's Henry Hall Mall, excuse me, which is lined with science buildings on one side. The 1912 building, the Ag and Journalism Building, Agricultural Engineering. And around the corner on University Avenue, the wing that was added in 1937. The green tree is the old elm, the historic elm out here. And the murals look out over that little courtyard, over the tree. Well, it's not a courtyard because of the Biochemistry edition. 1997 is every day. That's the one in the upper left corner. So everything in color is what was added. And the shunt fruits and blue up in the corner there, between the old buildings and the 1985 tower is that beautiful new research tower. It's six stories above ground and four below ground. So, you know, there's much of this facility that you do not see. In the shell of the 1912, 1937 building, all of this was. So, that's one of the reasons we were here. We were here basically to make sure that the just or current house came out on the other end of this project in one piece. And it took an enormous team of people to do it, not just the conservators from my organization. So, the other reason, here's just a wonderful photograph of the new tower in the 1937 building in that historic elm tree, which by the way, made it through all that construction. Here is a shot of the outside of the 1937 building. And the murals are on, what is called the first floor, second floor up above the limestone there, on the right-hand side of the doorway. At the top of the stairwell right over here is the stairwell foyer, the big triptych, and the accompanying panels. And the seminar room is that window right up there, those two windows. So, as Jennifer mentioned, just or current came here in 1936 as the first artist in residence, probably in any university, and is a wonderful photograph of just or current and an assistant working on the stairwell foyer. There are a number of wonderful historic photographs which were sort of rediscovered during this project. The other reason where here is not just to protect the murals, but the murals had some conditioned problems. And they've been treated in four. The photograph on the right is a colleague of mine, a person I went to school with in the early 1980s, and who came here with a group of graduate students from the Cooperstown Graduate Program, the State University College of New York, to work on the murals with a couple of full-fledged conservators working as their supervisors. The murals in 1984 were in horrible condition. They were very badly damaged by mechanical damage, just everyday use, but also quite badly damaged by leaking pipes and plumbing above. There was a leak in the foyer below a toilet room. There was a drinking fountain or a big triptych in the foyer of the paint with damage. There was a lab bench above, I believe it was a lab bench, a sink, rather, above the murals in the seminar room. And the conservators in 1984 did a fabulous job. We didn't reverse their work. It was so beautifully done. And that's me doing ceiling painting in 2012, after many years of interpreting the murals through the projects. That went on constantly around the world. A lot of things were done, well, okay, before we get into what we did, who was John Stuart Kurt, who was this guy? He was a member of a group of artists working from about 1920 until about, actually, one of them well into the 1970s, called American regionalists.  And the three components were, that's on the right-hand side is, okay, let me see, there's John Stuart Kurt on the left, Grant Wood on the right, and the very manly, quite a tough guy, Thomas Hartman down in the lower right. Quite a character, and a great fan of all three of them. Grant Wood.  This is a little detail from a painting at the Minneapolis Institute of Arts. It's, it is, it's all the way, while it represents the heartland and it's, you know, very American, it is quite abstract. He had beautiful children from forms and was a great designer. Now, Grant Wood was born in Iowa. He was a printmaker, a silversmith, a teacher who founded his own school. He studied in Chicago, the Chicago Art Institute in New York and Paris. When he met the other two major figures in the movement, they were, they were friends for life. But you know his work, even though you don't think you do. America.  How many times has this thing been spooked? It's, it's beloved. If you wish to see it, it's a list of two parts. It's one of those master works.  It's, it's not a farmer and his wife. It's actually a portrait of the artist's sister, Nancy, or Nan, and the artist's dentist. A little building in the background is a farmhouse not far from where he lived and the building still stands. So you can actually go into Iowa and see the little painting, see the little building that's painted here. Thomas Hartman, amazing. He was the most vocal of the three. He did modern art in a very big way. He didn't make a lot of friends, but he was an incredibly successful print maker, artist, who founded a school in Kansas City and lived there most of his life. Traveled extensively. He was actually born into a very well-to-do family in Kansas City. He studied in Paris, in New York, in Chicago. Just like the other three, it seems that they all, they went there quite at the same time. Thomas Hartman, who was an unbelievable figure, but also distilling it down to a very beautiful design and form. His work is crowded with figures. Here's a good example. These are the murals at, if you're ever down there, in Kansas City, Kansas, is the home of the Dwight D. Eisenhower Library. And these are the murals in the lobby of that library. They're just fantastical. They just entirely surround you. His themes were much more political than Grant Wood and John Stuart Curry. I mean, he depicted the Ku Klux Klan and political strife, the blight of Native Americans, slavery in a way that, to a degree, Grant Wood and to a certain degree, the Curry did not. Thomas Hartman lived, I think, well into the 1970s into his early 80s and late 70s. But an incredible body of work. So our guy, Thomas Curry, was born in Kansas. And he was a farmer, although his parents were very well educated and very traveled. He was a farmer too. I mean, his whole life was on the farm. And I think a lot of his art reflects that. I would describe his work here, a view of the Isthmus Capital, right here in Madison, as much more lyrical than Grant Wood's style and certainly, you know, the tough and verbal kind of Tibetan style. John Stuart Curry, again, traveled to Paris, and he was very important painters in Paris. In the 1910s and 20s, he too was a printmaker, a fabulous printmaker. He worked as an illustrator for a newspaper illustrator for magazines. He produced many covers for the Saturday evening post in colliers and other magazines until he settled into a career as an easel maker. And his paintings are very powerful. This is the scene right here in Wisconsin, a wall cloud. I mean, what's more powerful of a Midwestern theme, the farmers in the foreground, rushing to get the hay into the... It seems to be a very far-away bar, the lightning. I mean, it's an amazingly powerful painting. It's not very large. About 30 inches. 20 inches. Now, this painting, I first saw when I was about six years old. I don't know where I saw it, maybe in encyclopedia or... In one of our little textbooks, I didn't know who did this painting for about, you know, 50 years. So until I came across it, maybe 40 years as John Stuart Curry's work. I, this painting, scared the living day like so. I grew up in the Midwest, too. We did have tornadoes in Michigan. But what I loved about this was not the power of nature, of the effect on humans. Here are the families rushing into the root cellar.  I mean, she's just ashing. And the kids, of course, what are kids going to do when the dog, the young lad, has the puppies, you know, cradle in his arm. And I was always fascinated by the cat who was ready just to take off. They don't see the tree. And then I always felt this kind of bad influence. But he wasn't. So that's John Stuart. John Stuart Curry. I mean, a wonderful, wonderful painter. While Curry was here in Wisconsin, he got out of the commission of a lifetime. It was a mural series at the state capital of Kansas, his home state in Topeka. And here he is, probably a staged photograph. He's, you know, in a suit.  But painting, the major panel of the series, Kansas, he didn't. They threatened the legislature, threatened to paint it over, to rip it off the wall. They painted every bit of it. And it was a very contentious relationship between the citizens, the legislators, and the artists. Well, I mean, it's a very, very powerful piece. John Brown, the abolitionist, with blood on his hands, a Bible in one hand, a rifle in the other, and a Confederate soldier at his feet. It's a representation of, you know, of the war. It's the advent of the war. On one side, a tornado, the other a primary fire. Well, the citizens of Kansas had just lived through the premiere of the Wizard of Oz. You know, we're not in Kansas anymore. Tornadoes, the stereotype, they felt that Korea was representing them in a way that they felt far more normal than prairie farmers, tornadoes, and abolitionists. So he stormed out of Kansas. He never signed the murals. And you cannot read a single thing about tourism in Kansas without seeing this mural somewhere in the literature. Kansas is incredibly proud to have these. I mean, they're masters. So times change, but Korea never enjoyed that adoration. I don't think he... I think he returned to Kansas again in a coffin in 1926. He died here in Madison. It was not a nice relationship. So. I mean, a little bit later on after he leaves Kansas in conjunction with his friends at the ad department and the agricultural chemistry department, Stuart Cury decided to do this cycle of murals. Now I'm going to show you the before treatment. This is how I first saw the murals. In the floor is a terrazzo floor. It was pretty beat up. The murals had once again since 1984. Yes, my colleagues in 84 did a beautiful job restoring the murals, but nobody fixed the plumbing. So the plumbing continued to leak. And there was a lot of flaking paint, a lot of insecure paint, staining. So they're delaminated canvas. These are painted on canvas that are glued to the wall. In the fourier, it's a very heavy weight linen canvas. In the seminar room it's as lightweight as a piece of handkerchief fabric. Like a muslin. It's very, very light. So you'll see that the ceiling is painted bright white. Even the little lights that illuminate the murals are painted over. I mean, it's not true. So I'll just give you a little tour of what they look like. Here are the two companion panels. We'll see them a little bit. You'll notice that Curry is using, let's go back a moment, he's using a device to tell his tale of light and dark. You'll notice that on the far left and the far right of the triptych there is a line, a diagonal line. Here on the right, on the left, is the effect of human, animal and agriculture without the benefits of biochemistry research. The animals are incredibly sick. The children have rickets. The plants are dying. On the right, healthy animals and healthy humans, healthy crops. And in the center, Curry has actually depicted many members of, many of the scientists and professors who worked in the department and they're coming out bringing the children into the light, the animals in the background, those beautiful horses. I mean, it's a wonderful composition. The companion pieces, just opposite triptych, again the same device is used of dark and light. You can see for yourself, the healthy animals, the sick and dying animals. On the right, beautiful crops with little crops. Benefits of biochemistry. Now, the little seminar room is entirely different. It's almost, this is the public art. When you go into the seminar room, it's very intimate, it's lyrical, it's lovely. Here, on one whole wall, the back wall of the seminar room, is this gorgeous landscape of Wisconsin farmland. I don't know how many times I've been in that room when someone comes in and says, I know exactly where that is and they name some place. And then someone else comes in, I know exactly where that is and they name another. It's one of those images that people identify with. Whether they're right around, that doesn't matter. As you go around the room, the landscape comes around to the two windows on the west wall.  It's very beautiful. You'll notice those beautiful, fluorescent lights hanging down. The ceiling is bright white. And over the years, we've worked in that room that had just been hacked. So when paneling was taken out, they put it from right up panels. They really bumped up. They took out the original cork floor and put in vinyl tiles, painted the ceiling white. I mean, it was really, it was very sad. So as we come around and bring in the central panel, I don't know what I'm looking at. I don't know what's being on the right-hand side. Deficting the scientists and the beautiful Wisconsin landscape of Native American who are coming around from the second window. In the corner, suddenly you see a change in the landscape industry. And I want to point out those vertical pipes. Those have been there from the very beginning. Just to recruit, painted around those. Those are part of the the steam, heating plant. It was there, and you can see that he really didn't even middle all the way in there and finish his landscape. So those two pipes became an important part of the restoration. And the back wall, this is very interesting. You'll see that the waist coating, a lot of the section, it's a, you know, it's a lovely bulk. And you can see the panels there, most of them for micropanels. And then there's this big, blank, open space in the middle of the wall, what is that? When Currie, did the murals in the seminar room, there was this big metal box sitting right there. It was an air conditioner. That room faces west, and when that elm tree outside was little and didn't shade that room, the room must have been a furnace. So it was, there was actually a big metal air conditioner in there. It is long gone, but the competition very much works around it. And, you know, they weren't going to move the air conditioning in it, so Currie painted it around it.  So, what do we have to do? You know, they were going to be doing a lot of construction on this site. What did we do in conjunction with the architectural firm, Engineering firm, FLAD, and the construction firm, Finneville, and the great fortune of working with the preservation architect, Charmik Aliyana. As a team, what were we going to do to protect these things to make sure they came out the other end of one piece a lot. First, it started first in the planning phases. We removed all of the plumbing from above all of the murals. You know, this is a major demolition and construction. So, if you get these things out on the drawing board, that's the time to do it. So, all the plumbing was removed from above the murals. And they put in a sprinkler system, which is cold, but it's a dry sprinkler system so that, you know, water isn't sitting in the pipes above it, waiting for that fight to happen for the sprinklers to go off. So, we started by covering the murals with a very common material, house wrap, tykep, the stuff they put on houses before they put up a wooden side of that stuff. This happens to be unprinted, but it's the same. It's a very stable material. It's one of the most stable materials around. It's a non-woven material, meaning it's made of many layers of synthetic material. It's pretty, you know, it resists water. It's not entirely waterproof, but it's a material that lets vapor pass through it. And it's completely inert. It sat on those murals for many years and didn't transfer anything chemical or harmful to the murals. So, the first thing was to kind of wallpaper the room in Tyvek. You can see, here is that blackboard along the one wall and we're working our way across the top. Now you see the room. Semi, in a state of demolition, the ceiling is gone. The cove is still there, but the ceiling itself is gone. They've taken up the old tile floor. The Tyvek was then covered with basically a freestanding wall of 2x4s over which panels of plydor were replaced. So, the plydor was there to prevent the accumulation of the considerable construction of dust and dirt and debris that was flying around for years, but also to act as a mechanical barrier between the world and the murals. It worked very, very well. Here's just a picture in the seminar room looking out.  The entire area was enclosed in a plywood room. So, many layers on the murals and then the whole area was enclosed. So, here was this room within the building, standing quite independently. It had its own furnace. It was a secure area, a limited movement of the construction guys was fairly limited and other things happened too because they planned to remove the roof on the 1937 building. So, on the floor above the murals, they built an interior roof system so that just in case any water fell from the sky and percolated so that the murals themselves would be protected, here is that room within the room that was built around the rooms, a large fan just to circulate the conditioned air. Literally, there was a little furnace sitting out in front of the murals in the stairwell for a day. So, all these layers of protection were one for another after another. It was necessary. At one point, something had to be done about the triptych wall and the two accompanying panels in the stairwell for a day. It was found that the wall that the big triptych sits on wasn't really connected to anything on the top. It was sort of this freestanding wall and there was some movement of the wall. So, intervention, structural intervention was necessary. This is the reverse of that wall.  Basically, to stabilize the wall the wall was encapsulated with many layers of resin and fiberglass. The state of the art stuff was not just the wall of the triptych but really all the way around the Fourier just to make sure that there wasn't any movement that would adversely affect the murals themselves. It turned out there was a little movement because there were pre-existing cracks in that wall and it was from those waste pipes that basically built the wall around the waste pipes and they didn't do a very good job of making that weakness transferred to the front of the murals. So, basically, any deformation any movement was frozen at this point. So, it's an extraordinary amount of care given in these days over a very long period of time. This protection went up in, I think, 2008. So, years later. And then, one more view of that reinforcement in the stairwell Fourier included the building department. This is BioCamp. This is the interior of this building and over there on the lower floor they took out everything to the exterior walls. Here are my murals sitting up there and this is what's surrounding them. It was very shocking. Here is the space you're sitting in right now. That connection between the 1937 building and the 1912 building it just blew it up. But they kept the facade wall along University Avenue. This is sort of when they started construction. I have another photograph. I mean, this is what these buildings look like. I'll show you where the murals are. Okay, here's that center section where we're sitting right now. The second story where that worker is standing the murals are just a few feet away from that. This is what was going on. Then they decided to blow up University Avenue and then, and then then they done a hold of China right over there with a new research tower literally feet away from the murals. And it went on and on and on. Here is a view of BioCamp. On the right hand side is the 1912 building. There is the facade that little shell that's standing. And this is the 1937 building where the murals are located. And as you can see it's just the crane in the backs for the research tower. And over the years the research tower went up. The exterior of these buildings the historic buildings were restored including beautiful new windows. All of the masonry was re-pointed and repaired. Beautiful new downspouts and gutters. I mean, the exteriors of the buildings of the historic buildings are absolutely gorgeous. But, yeah, there's another floor going up on the tower and you can see 1937 there in the background without any windows it looks like. I mean, this just went on forever. And here you're the completion of the tower. And about every three months I traveled from Minneapolis here to biochemistry to sleep and rain and snow and heat to examine murals to make sure that they were coming through in one piece every three months for a very, very long time. So again, just to show the extraordinary level of care. So finally, finally construction is to a point where the walls came down and the 2x4s came down and we removed the top tie-back to actually get to the murals. We came back to restore them. So many years later we were delighted to see how well they looked. First step was to do a technical examination of every square inch under, as you can see, rather punishing light to make sure that the murals were not further damaged to map any problems basically comparative condition in about 2012 to 2012 to that of 2006. To make sure that there were drastic changes and there were not, not many. We were astounded that it came through. Now, while we're restoring the murals the room itself was being worked on, you know, it's about see that lovely blue door I know that had to be replaced with a beautiful oak door. You can see that the veins coating the woodwork has not been worked on, the floor is still concrete. The ceiling has been painted this beautiful warm color and the original color of the ceiling was determined by doing paint analysis scraping down through the layers and finding the original color and it was amazing having the ceilings painted from that bright white to this beautiful warm color the murals looked brighter or saturated. You could actually see the images because with the white ceiling they're just competing. You know, the contrast is so high it makes a mural darker and it was transforming so lovely to see them in that light. You'll notice that there's a little white line below the plaster coat. We asked the painters not to paint that because we couldn't go up and getting anywhere near the mural so one of the last things we did was get up there with a small brush and finish the cove painting and that's what we do. We don't drip painting like this so you'll notice that the woodwork is really in a very raw state. That big white box over there is still there where the artist painted around the art finishing unit and here is my colleague Elizabeth Elizabeth Bushmore This is during the restoration you can see the tree outside the window and a beautiful replacement window with ultraviolet and infrared filtration that's built right into the glass. It's not a film but it's actually part of the glass of the windows. Elizabeth is she has a little palette in her hand and a very tiny brush and she's in painting small losses which brings me a little bit to the philosophy of conservation I mean obviously do no harm that's our that's our goal but in conservation anything that we add to a work of art whether it's an easel painting, a mural a sculpture a work of art on paper must be reversible or pretty darn near close that's our master goal is to use materials that can be removed from the object it also must be detectable by another conservator to your eye no to another conservator they should be able to identify the materials that we've added and the materials that we add should be durable and we solve this by using mainly synthetic resins that when we in paint little tiny losses with little comedy brushes we're using a medium that will not discolor or change chemically with time so those are our goals and our materials are very much prescribed by our profession and we very rarely use them the same materials that are used in an original work of art the idea of the parameters this is a close up of damage from water this was very badly damaged before was restored in 1984 and here's that area in the seminar room above the light switches once again the same area was damaged and this is our work in filling some losses not only in the mural itself but also in the cove this is really before the losses were dressed we put the film material on but that we very carefully cleaned it off so it's only within the the cuna or the loss in the work of art this looks a little sloppy but here is that same area after in painting you're matching very carefully the surrounding colors and you can see that the cove has to be touched up it doesn't get in the paint so that was the area here is the corner in the seminar room and you can see the white going up the junction of the two walls there were quite a few losses in separation there and especially along the top there were some losses especially on this wall here there was a triangle of loss very carefully filled cleaned away so that it's within the area of loss and then very carefully toned in any painting so that your eye doesn't stop on that damage as you enjoy the work of art and here is that corner where the pipes were well, those steam pipes were removed during demolition because they were no longer functioning and we had to do something with this corner so here it is basically before a tree looked and here you can see some of our fills where hardware had gone into the wall and through the canvas the mural and into the main wall the supporting wall and here they're filled with new painting and you'll see when we go into the seminar room that dummy pipes had been placed there because they were all these pipes and they are just painted around them there's David, David spent his the entire time we were here working on the murals in the foyer there was a great deal of work to be done out there there was a little bit of delamity in campus that he had to reattach and it was the foyer because it's so public an area that had a lot of mechanical damage Elizabeth working on one of the companion panels in the front foyer and stairwell foyer and just a couple of the floors and afters here is the area around the light switches in the seminar room and here this is an area where people reach around and they flip the switches and you can see that outside edge is just totally cheered up lots of mechanical damage and here it is after restoration I very carefully saved that light switch plate and kind of tucked it away cleaned it up and put it back up there although all the switches aren't in the unicycle I worked with the electrician it's a little infill where there weren't actual switches but wanted to keep that original detail here is the corner by window one of the windows on the west wall again an outside corner can be beat up and you can see just a little bit of a beautiful woodwork that was restored around a really nice job and the seminar as it is today a lot of the materials and the design of this room the specifications of 1937 still existed so they would follow a beautiful cork form over the style of the wings coatings determined in those specs and here is the solution for that big metal air conditioning unit they had a very nicely designed cabinet in both to match the wings cover once again just to remind you of that horrible start white ceiling and the fluorescent lamps you can see how it replaced the period style lamps the room is just long enough for you to see it there was just another view of this room because the HVAC system was completely redesigned but they sort of put in these dummy radiator covers where the radiators were just to give it that look of a room heated by radiators so that's the restoration and I think we should just go and take a look at the bureaus together so thank you