Okay, now you had the first hand on the SBSFU package. Let's see what is this SBSFU package and have an overview about what it can do. So here is the agenda of this presentation. So we will first have a more theoretical presentation about what is a secure boot and a secure firmware update. And then I will present you what is the package, how it addresses the security and the protections. Then also a bit about the cryptography used in this package. Also a quick overview about the architecture, some advanced features and the conclusion. So let's go. Secure boot principle. So what is a secure boot? It's a code executed after reset that verifies the application firmware is genuine before launching it or not. This is really the basic of what is doing a secure boot. So after reset, we launch the secure boot. The secure boot reads the content of the firmware and checks the integrity and the authenticity of this firmware. And if it's okay, it loads the application. So what makes a secure boot secure? First, the secure boot should be the only possible code executed after reset. This means that the address where the code is launched should be always the same. And after reset, we shouldn't be able to launch directly the application, for instance. So this is what we call the boot lock. The second condition is that the secure boot code is immutable so that it cannot be modified in any manner. So here also, secure boot is locked. It's like ROM code, for instance. And all these, well, these two conditions, we call them the root of trust. This means that if you are sure that after reset, the code jumped to the secure boot and the secure boot cannot be modified, then you have your root of trust. And then you can launch authentication and do the further actions. Now how these integrity and authenticity are checked? Integrity is checked thanks to a hash. The secure boot reads the whole application firmware to generate this hash and this hash needs to be compared to a reference. The use of a hash is really important because there is no way when you have a hash result, which is called also a digest of a firmware, to change the firmware to get the same value at the opposite of a CRC, for example. So the use of a hash is really important to have this integrity check. The authenticity is checked thanks to a signature. Usually we use the hash value and we sign it. This signature is generated thanks to a private key and the signature is checked thanks to the associated public key. You could see this in the MOOC basic of cryptography, for instance. So hash value and signature value need to be provided with the firmware. This is the condition to be able for the secure boot to be able to check this firmware. These two values are stored in a container that is called either metadata or header. There is no need to encrypt the metadata thanks to this signature mechanism that it cannot be modified. Here is the introduction of this metadata. Usually it is beside the application before or after in the address range. And it provides the necessary information to the secure boot to perform this checking. How this metadata is built? So you start from your application firmware binary. You need to do this in a secure room because you have a private key. So this private key needs to be in a safe place. And so all actions using this private key should be done in a safe place. Then you use a hash algorithm to create a digest of your firmware.  And thanks to this you generate the metadata. So how the secure boot verifies the signature? You have in your internal flash the secure boot, the metadata and the application firmware. And the secure boot embeds the public key to be able to verify the signature. So at startup the secure boot reads the content of the firmware, the whole content to compute the digest of this firmware. It is using the corresponding signature verification using the public key as input and the metadata also as input. And this algorithm is able to provide the status okay or not okay. Depending on what you have provided, if you modify here one bit, the hash will change completely and the digest will not correspond to the one in the metadata. And if you change the signature obviously it will not fit with the firmware. So anything modified here or there will lead to an authentic firmware and a failure. Now let's go to the second step which is the secure firmware update principle. We defined what is a secure boot, how it checks the application, thanks to this metadata. Now let's see how we can update this application firmware in a secure way that is called secure firmware update. Secure firmware update principle, first you need to transmit your update file to the target in some way. This update contains an application firmware and the associated metadata. With the metadata the secure boot can check the application firmware integrity and authenticity and if check is okay the secure boot can install the new firmware. So first step, we create an update file. You have developed a new update of your application firmware. Then you need to create a digest of this firmware, sign it and generate the metadata. The concatenation of this metadata and the application firmware is the update file. This update file will be transmitted to the target. So second step, transmit update file to the target. Two possible ways, first the file is sent remotely. This is the case of many IOTs that have a connection to a server. And the second possible way is the transmission thanks to a local connection like UR2SB SD card. Anything that is local to the device. In all cases the update file needs to be written on the target flash with a loader. So the loader can be part of the secure boot. It can be a standalone application or part of the application firmware. Third step, installation of the update. So the secure boot can now access to the update file. The secure boot will check integrity, authenticity thanks to the metadata. If the check is okay, the update file can be installed. So how the new firmware can replace the old one. When using the local transfer, the loader can be in the secure boot or in a standalone application. Or even the application itself. If the loader is located in a secure boot or standalone, it can first erase the application and then load a new one. If the loader is in the application itself, you need a spare space in the flash to first write the update image obviously. In remote transfer, the most common case is that it's the application that connects to the server. So this is the rule of the application to download the new firmware and to write it locally. Yes, the new firmware needs to be stored locally while the current firmware is still running. So that's why we need a second slot. So that's why we need two slots. One slot for storing the active firmware and one slot for storing the downloaded firmware. So here is a local update example. We have our application and secure boot and metadata. Here we have the update computer that is connected directly locally to the target with serial communication. The secure boot embeds the loader. And first thing, once the communication has been established and the secure boot received a request to make the update, it erase the old firmware or just erase the content of the flash. And then it can transfer the update through this communication. So transfer the metadata and the application firmware and write them to the flash. Once this done, the secure boot can check integrity and authenticity of this new firmware and erase it if it fails. Here is a remote update example. So now we have still our application firmware and secure boot metadata. And we have an active slot and an update slot or download slot. Now the server is connected to the application or application is connected to the server via a remote link. And so the loader is inside the application which is able to write in the second slot the metadata and the application firmware. Once this has been done, the application firmware can perform a reset to give back the hand to the secure boot and to start the installation of the new firmware. So after reset, the secure boot is detecting the new firmware. It is checking obviously the new firmware. And then once it is checked okay, it is installed. Thanks for example to a swap process. Update firmware encryption. So as the firmware is most of the time a very valuable asset, you need to encrypt it because it may go to unsafe location. So this encryption of the firmware must be performed thanks to a symmetric key. And this symmetric key is used to encrypt the firmware when we generate the update file and it is used to decrypt the firmware when we install the update. So the same symmetric key is required both in the secure room and in the secure boot. So how to create? We have our firmware generated and our update firmware. Our secure room with still our private key. And now we have an AES key. So that this AES key performs the encryption of the firmware. And we still have to get the digest of the firmware unencrypted to be able to generate the signature. And the update file now is the metadata and the encrypted application firmware. So local update with encryption. Now we have our AES key in the secure boot. We update thanks to the loader in the secure boot. We erase the old firmware. We transfer the update with the encrypted firmware. Here we have decrypted the new firmware. And then the secure boot can check integrity and authenticity. And again erase if it fails. And launch application obviously if it's okay. A little word about key management. We could see we need an asymmetric keypad to generate and check the signature. And a symmetric key to encrypt and decrypt the firmware. So the asymmetric keypad can be generated by a tool like OpenSSL. The private key is used to sign the firmware. And it has to be kept in the safe place or in the secure room as we said. And the public key is used to check the signature. So it is provisioned on the device and must stay immutable. So the key is public but it is mandatory to ensure this key cannot be changed. Otherwise the authentication is no more ensured. The symmetric key can be generated with a random. It is used to encrypt and decrypt the firmware. And it needs to be kept in the safe place and provisioned on the device. So how to protect these keys? The private key and symmetric key must be stored in the safe place by the OEM as I said. Public key is provisioned with the secure boot. So knowledge is not a problem. It's public but it must remain immutable. And the symmetric key is provisioned also with the secure boot. And it must remain secret. So it needs to be protected inside the secure boot. And to ensure this protection we must use the isolation mechanism. So we will see later how we perform this isolation. So in conclusion we have seen the basic principle used in the secure boot and secure firmware update. We can see this involves many concepts that require a lot of development. If you want to create your own secure boot from scratch. Also, NCM32 family, you have a lot of different security mechanisms that need to be used to ensure the maximum security. To address this complexity of both manage different families and the complexity of the secure boot itself. We propose the Xcube SBSFU package. So let's see what is this package in a glance. So the package is an implementation of secure boot and secure firmware update. It addresses nearly all STM32 families except old one, F0, F1, F2 and F3. It is still possible to make your own porting on these targets but we don't support them directly. And the SBSFU takes into account the STM32 family diversity in terms of protection mechanism mainly. And the SBSFU is provided to help ST customers developing their own SBSFU adapted to their level of security requirements. An important notice, SBSFU is provided as a reference code to demonstrate state-of-the-art usage of STM32 security protection mechanism. It is a starting point for OEMs to develop their own secure boot and secure firmware update application as a function of their product security requirement level. This means that this package is not ready to use a package. You need to understand what it is doing to adapt to your own constraints and to your own security requirements. In a nutshell, this package is a standalone package containing a full functional secure boot and secure firmware update examples for each supported STM32 family. Current version is 2.4.0 in date of September 2020. We have 34 examples available for all these boards, so for some targets we have more than one example. And this package is provided with some documentation. First, you have an introduction to microcontroller security, which is a must read, I would say. Then, related to this package, you have the getting started that explains all what you need to know about this package and an integration guide that is giving some tips to mainly make a porting or adapt the package to your own target. The package content you can see here from the top, it is provided with all the necessary drivers for the STM32 family supported. The middleware is mainly what is common to any target, so the cryptographic key management service, secure engine we will see, and also the STSafe driver for the WB, and also the cryptographic algorithm from third party. And in the project here, you have all the boards supported. So you can see that, for example, in L4 family, we support 1, 2, 3, and 4, 5 targets. Now, let's see how SBSFU addresses security requirements. So SBSFU supports all protection mechanisms available in STM32 in the family that is addressed. It ensures the confidentiality of the firmware. It ensures the unique entry point, the immutability of the secure boot code and isolation mechanism to protect against inner attacks. Confidentiality, so it's to prevent external access to the firmware. So this is achieved thanks to RDP level 2, where we have no more JTAG access. This RDP level 2 is set up using option bytes. And once it's done, obviously it's still possible to use the SBSFU for making updates. And SBSFU ensures that at each boot, the RDP configuration is set up as expected. The entry point is to ensure that after reset, we always boot at the same address. This is also ensured thanks to RDP level 2. This RDP level 2 deactivates the ability to boot on system bootloader or on internal RAM. Code immutability, the immutability is ensured thanks to the right protection. And this right protection is set up thanks to option bytes also. On the selection of sectors and RDP level 2 makes this option byte no more changeable. This is why we get the code, how we get the code immutability. Regarding RDP usage, so as you could see RDP level 2 ensures confidentiality, the boot lock and immutability. And recent STM32 families, you could use RDP level 1 with some limitations. For instance, thanks to the implementation of the secure memory on the G0, G4 and H7, the combination of this secure memory and RDP level 1 brings the impossibility to connect with a debugger. And the inability to change the content of the secure memory. So the confidentiality in that case is ensured thanks to the JTAG deactivation. The unique boot entry is ensured thanks to the boot lock on G0 and G4. And immutability is ensured thanks to the secure memory. So cryptography, we use either our X-Cube Crypto libraries or Open Source MBTLS Crypto. The isolation of the symmetric key that is very important is addressed using the most efficient protection we have on different STM32. So on L0 and L4 it is mainly protected thanks to the firewall and the PCROP. On the F4, F7 and L1 we use the MPU privilege mode to protect it. On H7, G0 and G4 we use the PCROP MPU privilege during the secure boot execution. And then it is the secure memory that protects this key. Once you jump on the application, the code of the secure boot is no more visible. And on WB, the protection is made thanks to the M0 core, isolated from the M4 core. Additional security mechanism handled by the SB-SFU, so the temporal protection. The watchdog, disabling of debug GPIOs and disabling of DMA clocks to enforce MPU protection. So all this can be activated or deactivated depending on your target requirements. SB-SFU security mechanism handling, so all the mechanisms I talked about are handled by SB-SFU. So at each boot we have all static protection, so basically the option byte configuration that are checked. And the dynamic protection that are set up according to the expected configuration you made. From version 2.2, we introduced a flow control mechanism that is able to... That is a countermeasure against power glitch attack. So this is what we call a control flow mechanism. You can see if you want more information, you can go in the code and see how it works. It's a standard way to do. So in conclusion, it's really important to handle all the security mechanisms in the proper way. And SB-SFU provides this ability to address all this. And it also ensures that all these mechanisms are properly set up. So let's see now a bit of cryptography addressed by SB-SFU. After security setup, this cryptography we are sure can be executed in a secure way. And the algorithm used our SHA-256 and we use elliptic curve P256 ECDSA. And confidentiality is addressed to ASCBC in 128-bit key. We use a two-steps authentication. This means that the first step, we authenticate the metadata. And once authenticated, we can check simply the digest that is included in this metadata. So here you have here the metadata containing the version, the firmware size. And then the application digest is put in the metadata. And this metadata is signed. So we need to create a metadata digest and signed this metadata. This is the SB-SFU header in a simplified way, but this is the main mechanism used. So this is the first step. We signed the information and most important, the version and the digest. And the size also is important. And so when we start, the SB-SFU is starting, the authentication check first authenticates the metadata. So if metadata is okay, we can go on. We can check the application firmware digest. So we get a digest of the application firmware. And we can compare to this value that is authentic. And then we can decide if the application is genuine or not. So now let's see a bit more about SB-SFU architecture. The SB-SFU is actually split in two components, the secure engine and the SB-SFU application. You could see this AC Corbin in the first hand zone. The secure engine is a framework to handle critical function in an isolated environment. It's composed of an API that defines that service provided and the core that implements these services. So basically inside the SB-SFU, if we expand this, we have a part dedicated to the secure engine that executes a crypto operation and store the keys. So the keys are located here. And there is a hardware mechanism that makes sure that we call the API through this interface and the API is going through a gate so that we are sure that we cannot directly call anything directly from the SB-SFU application or even from the user application itself. This is a way to isolate all the critical operations. The package architecture, so you have SB-SFU application with all the features of the implemented. The secure engine with the interface, the call gate entry point and the different services. You have the user application example for each target. And you have also a standalone fiammarian loader example provided. And then all this is based on the HL API and the port package for all the chips and the boards. So nuclear boards and some discovery boards. Here is an example of two-image startup sequence. Two-image means here we need the update slot. So compared to only one slot when we have one image. So when we reset, we go to SB-SFU entry point. First, we check static protection, activate dynamic protections. And so once this is done, we are in a secure environment. So we check if there was a request for fiammarian download using local loader if it's inside the SB-SFU. If yes, then it is downloaded in the slot download part and then it resets. If there is no fiammarian download, we check if there was already a download fiammar. So here we download a fiammar. So reset is done and we come here and the new fiammar is to be installed. And so in that case, we check the new fiammar and install it. Thanks to the swap process and reset again. And third part, we have a new fiammar installed. It's verified if it's authentic. We launch the application and if not, we invalidate and erase the fiammar and go back possibly in the download a new fiammar using local, for instance. So checking static security step, which is very important. We are checking the option bytes. SB-SFU provides an easy way to activate this protection through defines. We will see this in the following hands on. Just after booting, we ensure option bytes are in expected states. And the SB-SFU is implementing two behaviors. Development mode where we program option bytes to their expected value. If they are not, and the production mode where the option bytes are supposed to be already programmed on the production line. So if it's not programmed as expected, then the SB-SFU is blocked. So static protection handle, RDP, write protect, P0, secure memory and boot lock, which are all option bytes. The dynamic security setting, so after all the static protection is checked, then the SB-SFU is activating the NPU, the firewall if we are on L4 and L0. The watchdog tamper and also disabling GPIO and DMA clock, depending on the configuration you set up. And each protection, as I said, can be enabled or disabled through compilation flag. Here is a mapping of the STM32L476 that is used during the hands on. You can see the vector table of the SB-SFU, the secure engine, the secure engine interface and the SB-SFU. And you have here the download slot with the download image header and the download image. Small space here, active image header and active image. Then you have a swap area that is used to be able to swap the two image during installation in a secure way, so that you can continue the swapping even if a reset occurred for instance. And then you have some space for user data. Here are all the protections used in detail. So this is the flash mapping, this is the SRAM mapping. All this is detailed in the user manual getting started, UM-2262. So you can see for each region of the user flash what kind of protection is used. So here you can see that the firewall is used to protect the keys, the secure engine, the header and also the RAM used by the secure engine. Some figures, so in the footprint the SB-SFU is taking between 32 and 56 kilobytes. It can go over depending on the features you are adding, like for example the key store feature. In RAM it is using 4K bytes, if you are using the firewall you cannot recover these 4K bytes, but in other case you can recover them after the secure boot has given hand to the application. In boot time, well the boot time mainly depends on the crypto operation, it's about 90% of the boot time. So it highly depends on the target performance and also available hardware accelerator. So order of magnitude is between 100ms and 1s, but you can go faster using a hardware accelerator for instance. The update time it depends mainly on the download interface and the flash writing speed. You can expect that a single image update is much faster than the real image where we are doing a swap. SB-SFU features, so in the SB-SFU package we provide also a bit more advanced features like a key management service that is an added service in the secure engine to manage static and dynamic key storage. So it's basically a key store. The new keys can be provisioned with a mechanism similar to firmware data. We support also a secure element, ST-Safe A110, and this ST-Safe is used to validate the authentication key. So we have a certificate chain, we implement a certificate chain using this ST-Safe and the certificates are checked inside the SB-SFU. We also support external flash, so through QSPI or Octospi. If you have a simple external flash, we can use it for the download slots. And if the STM32 is supporting underfly decoding or TFDec, then we can use the external flash to store the active application. We also support a partial update, so this is the ability to update just a part of the flash. Also there are in the latest version the support of different update options. So the legacy one, which is from 2.3 that is using a swap area, but no rollback is authorized. There is a second mode, which is called no swap. So we gained the swap area in terms of flash memory footprint, which could be useful in some cases. So the installation is not using a decryption in place. Obviously in that case, we just installed a new firmware that is encrypted. We decrypt underfly and install the new application. So before installation, obviously a first decryption without any writing is done to be able to check the digest of the decrypted firmware. But in that case, we don't support any partial firmware update. And the last mode is the self-test user application of the user application before complete validation. So here we swap the application during the install. Then the new fresh application performs a self-test. So basically it's connecting to a server to check if everything is okay. And if it's okay, it's calling an API called ValidateFirmware, which makes this firmware valid. So something is changed in the header of the firmware to say, okay, this firmware is valid. And if the test failed, the application should force a reset. And then the SBCU detects that the application was not validated. And then it's doing a rollback to the previous image that is supposed to be working fine. A multi-slot, in order to manage a multi-core device where we have different firmwares that are independent, we support now up to three active slots and also up to three download slots with the ability to use only one download slot depending on the constraints of your platform. When you have more than one slot, SBCU is checking authenticity and integrity of each slot at startup. And it jumps to the first valid slot in numerical order or to a slot that is defined as a master slot. So in conclusion, SBCU is supporting all recent STM32 families. Only exception concerns the families based on the Cortex M33. So the introduction of trust zone and the support of the RMTFM framework that you will see in the next part of this workshop leads to change the secure boot strategy on STM32 L5. So the L5 still supports something equivalent to the SBCU SBCU secure boot secure firmware update. But it is based on the open source MCU boot that is used by TFM framework actually. Another point, SBCU code has been audited by an external lab that gives good confidence in the code we provide. As you could see, SBCU provides many different configurations to fit to various setups. It is maintained and new features still come regularly. And also we support customers with their implementation. So thank you for your attention and now let's go to the next hands-on on SBCU.


As designers, we can often be our biggest critic. We always have those voices in our head preventing us from doing our best work. In this episode, you're going to learn how you can overcome those struggles and in general, be kinder for yourself and your surrounding. Here's the guest for this episode. Let the show begin. Hi, I am Natalia and this is the service design show number 105. Hi, I'm Marc and welcome to the service design show. This show is all about empowering you with the most effective skills and strategies so you can design services that win the hearts of people and business. And the guest in this episode is nobody less than Natalia Agudalo. These days Natalia works at a design agency, but she has a long track record of being a design teacher, a very respected design teacher. And in that career, she has seen the struggle that many designers face. And often that struggle comes from not being able to separate yourself from the thing that you create. And that creates a lot of mess with regards to anxieties, to fears, to imposter syndrome. And that basically prevents you from giving your full talent to the world. In this episode, we're going to talk about how Natalia by herself is dealing with these struggles, how you can break free from this. So at the end of this episode, I can guarantee that you'll have gained a lot of wisdom on personal growth with relationship to design. I think this is an area that we don't talk about enough. You focus a lot on the craft aspect of design, but not so much on the personal growth. And that's what is store in this episode. Conversations with people like Natalia are super inspiring, but they also give you practical advice. And if you want to make sure you don't miss out on any of the future conversations, click that subscribe button because you'll find a new video here on this channel at least once a week. That's all for the intro. And now let's jump quickly into the chat with Natalia Agudelo. Welcome to the show, Natalia. Welcome, Mark. Welcome. Yeah. Nice to be on the show. Nice to be. I'm a bit shaky. So we'll have fun in this episode 105, which is a prototype of the new conversation for me. Natalia, I have to be honest. You've been on my list to invite you on the show for quite a long time, because at least two or three other guests have sort of recommended you. And it was about time to get you to get you on the show for the people who haven't looked you up yet, who haven't checked your link in profile. Could you give like a brief introduction, who you are and what you do? I now work at the service design consultancy in Oslo, Norway called Hallogen. But I think if anyone talked about me, it must have been one of my students, former students now, hopefully friends and colleagues. So I worked for many years, mostly of my career as a design lecturer, both in Colombia and here in Oslo. We have a new element in the show, which I haven't prepared you for. So this will be fun. It's called a 60 second flash question round. I have five questions for you and the challenge for you is to answer as fast as possible without thinking too much. And I'm going to cheat because I don't remember the questions by heart. But there we go. So Natalia, what is always in your fridge? Cheese. Cheese. Okay. Which books are you reading? Currently, the second book from the heat hikers guide of the galaxy, to the galaxy, the restaurant at the end of the universe. What superpower would you like to have? Influence. No, what was it? I thought about it. It's an evil superpower. Thinking into people's mind, being able for them to do whatever I want. Okay. Rain washing. What did you want to become when you were a kid? Famous. And now you are. You're on the show. Final question. What was your first encounter with service design? I think it was 2007. And we were talking, we were moving. The department I was working with in Colombia, the design department, was shifting from industrial design to design. And then they changed from industrial design to products. And then in the in the framework, it was like, yeah, we're defining products as platforms for exchange of value. And those could be objects, experiences or services and all like service. And then I started this down this rabbit hole. 2007 was about the time that I also sort of got, I don't know, immersed or influenced or let's use the brainwash term again about service design. That was an interesting period around that time. Natalia, we're going to talk about your journey, your story and at least a part of it, a really interesting part of it. So the first thing I would like to start with is to get an understanding of where you're heading in your journeys. Which, what is the destination? What is the dream state that you're sort of pursuing? Yeah, that you want to talk about in this case, yeah. No, I think tranquility, like being able to be more equanimous, more at ease with things, less engaged, less. Yeah, more tranquil, I think that will be. Okay, more tranquil. So could you help me to paint a picture in my head of how does that world look if we are more, the service design community or the world who needs to be more tranquil? And how does that look? What is different? It's, I think it's something that has to do, I'm going to talk about myself, like the way that I would like to be at some point is a little bit less empathic, but less passionate is not the word, but concern. I think what I want to remove is the concern, which is all the things that are related to fear, to anxiety, to regret, to remorse kind of all those voices, at least in my head. I would like to shush them and just kind of to take things more as they are a little bit more like what the Buddhists aim to be in this middle path. I'm trying to find that middle way path. And if you get there, like how, what would that change for you? I think, personally, I think I waste too much time chewing over things, either from the past and from the present. And so kind of being able to be more future, sorry, being able to be more present, I think that's what I would like to be able to not over stress for how I said, so now I'm already torturing myself from the welcome at the beginning. So being able to shush that voice and just kind of be here, enjoy. That's gone. And not stress of kind of also another voice that I have here is like, so people are going to see that you messed it up with like, so all of those voices that are constantly in my head to be able to be aware that they are, but they just kind of be more here enjoying the moment. Yeah, and this is with, I can imagine that designers, people who create, people who put stuff in the world, people who make themselves vulnerable, probably recognize a lot of these voices. And yeah, so this will be interesting. Natalia, when did this start for you? Take us back to the moment you started this journey around this. Of tranquility. I think the need is first manifested this when I graduated industrial design, I made myself a gastric problem because of anxiety. I was so nervous that I've after I delivered, I was sick. Not a big thing, but it was kind of the first early sign of this kind of very visceral reaction to the possibility of failing or reject or all of those things. And I started teaching quite early. I started teaching after a couple, a year after I graduated. And at that time, I didn't have any experience. So I think looking back, I know that I was compensating the lack of experience with kind of very much enforced authority. And it took me quite some time to realize that we are all in this kind of journey of trying to find who we are and the impact, the importance of words that matter. And that there are many ways of giving feedback. And so you can be right about something, but you need to be mindful of how you present that. And that works for both when you're teaching or when you're designing services. I think that's one of the things that we're doing. We're trying to, it's not only what you're doing, but how are you presenting it? And that the form matters. And form matters not only externally, but also internally. And I think that's the last part of the journey. This awareness that I've been working a lot on helping others to improve. And I'm very easily kinder with others now. I was very mean when I started as a teacher. I was very mean. Now the latest, I was not that mean, but I am still very mean with myself. So now I think that's the last part of the journey. Kind of how to be kinder with me. Internal journey has started. And you already mentioned something, why this is important. Would you summarize it as it will free up your time, energy to focus on positive things rather than spending your time in it? Yeah. How would you describe the reason why maybe you aren't there yet? So what is the gap between where you want to be and where you are right now? I think it's we're very much resources basically. These are kind of things that at least when I was studying, we didn't talk about that. It's very interesting because as you said earlier, design is something that we put ourselves into. Yet very seldomly, at least when I was studying, and it took me some time when I started using this in my teaching, we don't disconnect ourselves with what we are doing. So we lack resources of being able to understand what is what. So that's one kind of just the starting with the awareness. Do I really want to be this anxious because it's for some people stress works. And actually it does for me sometimes. Like I leave up on panic monsters that those are my drivers to compensate with my gratification monkey that I have wild one. So I we do need kind of sometimes these moments of rush, but just kind of having it as an intentional thing is not this is much better than just kind of being prey of that something underneath. So I think we lack awareness. I think there are resources that we don't use that much from like we have been stealing from other disciplines, but for example, how to talk with each other. We tend to assume that because we're human beings and we talk and reflect, we know how to not necessarily not to others, not to ourselves. So that lack of resources and also maybe just time and awareness. But I think those two first kind of being aware and then resources and having more conversations about these. Like I think everyone is a little bit afraid at some point. And we just kind of pretending we're not all the time. I'm curious what frustrates you or annoys you the most about this situation? Again, my personal situation that the gap between knowing that it's important and being able to affect it. Right. Because I think that's the kind of the last part of my journey is one of the reasons why I stopped teaching is that I wanted to commit design. And then it's very interesting how a lot of the things that I tell my students and I've been very adamant and it's very easy to like do this and that is very hard to do it myself. So kind of that it frustrates me a lot this kind of the difficulty of integrating things that is very easy to tell others to do. Right. Then just doing it myself. Yeah, yeah. This this I guess there are many terms for this, but the imposter syndrome and the lack of lack of confidence or compensating for the lack of confidence through a lot of other things like over explaining, playing with your hair or whatever. Right. There are a lot of ways this manifests and those are in a lot of cases quite damaging behaviors. They are. I'm curious and I'm sure you have some good examples of where this really manifested for you. So when did you experience that anxiety, that lack of tranquility? Can you share a few stories with us? Yeah, well, I think the weird part is that I'm pretty sure a lot of my students would not recognize this side of me because I'm kind of I'm regularly composed and articulated. So it's a lot this, as you mentioned, kind of the feeling of the imposter syndrome that I'm very often kind of questioning and it's this bitterness and the lack of actually, as I was saying, enjoying the moment, but also kind of overthinking what could have been with others. So it's a lot, it has to do a lot with suffering unnecessarily and ego and fear. I think a lot is fear of acceptance. I don't know, but it has to do both in when I'm preparing for something or when I'm reflecting of something. And what is interesting is that in the middle, I just kind of I go and so I'm there. But that is a little bit the anxiety before and after. Yeah, so basically when you get the time to think anxiety kicks in, when you're in work mode, like when you're in do mode, then it's full speed ahead. And then when things relax and your mind gets the opportunity to wander, then these things kick in. Do you have an example, for instance, where in the preparation you were experiencing this? I think it's more that it makes unnecessary noise. So when you're planning for something or when you're doing something, I think it's important to have reflectiveness in the critical mind is very important. And it's one of the things that we is I hope more people would have the chance to kind of look at things in a critical way. I'm not saying we should not be critical, but I think it's more being critical and compassionate in a way. So it's again, what we're doing in the intention of to take these things down, but to improve them. And that's also one of the reasons why I really like working with people. Because then when you're working with and together people is less about you. I think that's another interesting shift from industrial design to service design is that industrial design is you and it's your design. You are the form maker. You're the one that makes the calls. Whereas when you're part of a team, you are opening and then it's not you. It's this co-creative, collective thing that it's less. It gives you time to work in a different way. And then again, I would say that there's also a downside to that because you can hide. You can hide easier and it's easier to not take stands. So that's maybe a sort of the downside that I see within service design that designers are less outspoken, have less courage to stand for something. But again, I'm really curious if you look back at your career so far. This story doesn't come from just thin air. I'm sure you've had some experiences where this manifested for you personally. I think it manifested first in the care for others. I think very early, for me, teaching was never about the knowledge. It was about making better people because I think with the internet, the knowledge is there, books and things, the knowledge is there. What I love about design is that we learn design by doing. And yet the moments in which we reflect and then we give feedback and we do ourselves are weird. I started noticing very early how for teachers, we were bragging about the good students and then just ignoring the others. And regularly, good students are good not because of us features. They're good because they're just kind of there are very many talented people. But then there is all this group of people, others that are there willing to be worked with. And I was very early on trying to see how I can help keep the brilliant students interested and engaged but help those that had challenges that were confused that were not understanding to be part of that. So it was also kind of trying to make the experience education better and help and how there are so many ways you don't need to trash down students, how you can help them be better. Still being critical because I was always kind of very critical and I think I do think that design is important and that we need to be reflective but then how? And then very early I recognized that at the beginning as I told I was a meaner. It was this reaction of when students when you give when I used to give feedback to students, sometimes I would cry and I could see myself there in this very vulnerable position of kind of I failed. And I think it was very important for me when I realized that it's very important to educate and teach people to separate you from your design process. And then I realized that very often when we're talking about the feedback in design we talk about the course we talk only about the outcome and then I started and then I came with this concept of metacognition which is reflecting about thinking about how you think and we started integrating that into our courses kind of stepping out of that vehicle of learning that is the project and observing the journey of learning so that you know that regardless of the outcome of the process you learn as an individual you learn something and that at least in education is as valuable this change from stage A to stage B to the outcome of this thing and that it's important to be able to do that. So that was a point in which it started to be clear again outwards and then when I moved here to you want to say something. Yeah I have a quite of course yeah of course I always want to say something or at least I have a lot of questions so you mentioned this metacognition thing I'm not familiar with it and I don't know if the people listening or watching are but you sort of step over really quickly but this is a big change so you can say to somebody you need to separate yourself from the thing you put into the world but how like in a most practical way because people might get it they might hear it but how do you actually put that into practice? Well easier said than done but basically is metacognition is thinking about how you think so that's one thing and in design the trick is that we learn by doing so it's not that you study something and then you make an exam you are doing design you're committing design and hopefully you're learning about that but we are so focused on the thing that we're doing that we start thinking that that is the purpose that the purpose is for me to design this thing and this is just a means to an end sure this thing that I am designing is the excuse that I'm using or the mechanism that I'm using to learn so the thing that helps metacognition here is that okay I'm done with this more often than not not because of it's ready but because the time is over and so that is the moment where you can take a step and then just step back and see okay the thing but then look at the journey how was I a week a month a semester ago how am I now what worked what didn't work how can I learn from this and integrate what I have learned because something also that was for me very interesting was to see that some students will do great one semester and the next semester he said as if nothing had happened I'm like you just did a project and is that we are so much in a rush very often that we don't stop and integrate and we don't have this moment of pause and actually allow the voices to be intentionally and then just kind of evaluate or assess things and be able to see okay this work it didn't work how are things happening and so it's giving time for for reflection beyond the end thing and into the journey the process and what you learned and what work what didn't work and two things that come to my mind I try to simplify everything I have two two kids who are sort of in the in the ages where they are learning how to ride a bike and then you you can help them to learn how to ride a bike by saying let's go to the park and then the park the destination is fun it's nice but actually the park is an excuse to get them to learn to ride a bike that's that's how I that's what I got from your story that the challenge that I see is that maybe the people who are giving feedback on what designers do often isn't focused on the process it's often focused on the outcome on the end result so how do you see that balance like the the feedback you get from others because it's really easy to point at something that is tangible that you've put into the world and comment on that versus a transformational learning journey that you've been through I think that that just a lot of things like feedback is one of the trickiest types of interactions that we have I think it's it's much nicer when it's a conversation or instead of just a monologue one is prospective because I think also that you could have can be phrased in the next time that you meet this so kind of more as something that can be a lesson not a regret or reproach it something that you are why didn't you nagging yeah yeah so I think there is a lot in the form but I also think that it's important that we learn to do that for ourselves because the the the problem with the teacher or the mentor or whomever the coach is that you're externally observing but it's also and it's an important view because you're having an external perspective but I think what I what I would like to encourage in my life and I have tried to do it with my students is this self-voice like be reassured like you learning how to actually appreciate and look back like well this didn't work how can I make it better next time but these work and being fair with that assessment because I think also we tend to focus too much on what didn't work or at least I take to both internally and also externally and then instead of kind of looking okay from that what can we learn in a more constructive thing and then what are the things that deep kind of enjoying more the things that we do I think it's important but that's that's a process that should be your own voice that you train to talk to you on those terms to to continue a little bit about the the people who you've mentored and thought the the ones that were able to do this that were somehow successful maybe talented did you see a pattern in them like did they have something in common um no I think another great thing that has given me the fact that I have seen so many people is that I think the grass is greener where you water it basically that would be the summary summary there there is just is trying to find what are the things that that kick you that move you everyone has that one and it's I sound super cliche cliche but I do really believe that there are some people that are far stronger than they have more resources they're more motivated and then you have different conversations with those and there are others that are struggling more with these kind of things and it's kind of being able and open and to see what kind of conversation is useful to have a clear eye on the goal um but I do think that everyone has something that is working with and and and again it's an individual journey so no I don't think there's a common thing willingness I think if anything like this Gert they doing persistence maybe is that like but willingness to do for what willingness to to continue to try and to prototype and to fail because I think that's another beautiful thing of kind of design nowadays that we say that the design process is fair fail fail sooner yeah but then kind of can we integrate that it also in kind of the way that we assess and that we make a shitty first draft and we're kind with that shitty first draft because it's just doing trying to do that a little bit with our process as well yeah and I would yeah I would be really curious like what kind of person doesn't take a failure as a failure but as a learning opportunity what what is it what have they learned what is in their character what what is in their environment yeah that and because I had a I had a colleague many years ago Camilo Spina and he said we always need to aim for the students to surpass the master and I am sure that I have I can think of a handful of students that are I hope far more self-assured what they are standing that I am still like that and I'm like no we do this and I'm like do you go if we if we flip the conversation around because like you said in the beginning it's easy to give advice to somebody and to encourage them to do something like this um now you are trying to put your ideas your here I go your designs into the world how is this manifesting for you how do you deal with these inner voices and what have you learned about that uh slowly but surely I'm I think the like everyone failing and going up again and just kind of being aware I think being open about the conversation is something that also I think has changed because the moment I start sharing this I find that I'm not alone in that like I have a colleague also them like this is hard I open of course under a year or kind of outside in a in a more sharing space and then just feeling that I'm not alone in that feeling it's uh it's nice also kind of from people that are grown ups because that's another kind of weird feeling that I have had is that I was into education at IMS for so long and then suddenly it's kind of how why am I feeling still disanctious and then having friends that say like it's a little children inside that child inside that doesn't never grow up a little bit and just kind of knowing that it exists and this is kind of okay it's there I'm not a weird though so it's opening for these kind of conversations and just kind of yeah okay so um I we have the five whys in uh in the design field I I have the five house how do you open up what does that mean um finding a safe space to actually share if I when I'm feeling very very anxious why dealing with it yourself alone hopefully and I've been very lucky to have friends that I can just kind of find them so like okay this is bugging me just being able to have that space so finding a safe space for instance with friends uh and again a question like what do you do then is that is that I'm I'm trying to be as practical as possible here is it that you feel uh I need to I need to share this let's invite somebody for a video call in this case for a virtual call and then what happens like well I think because I don't know of these things like that's the challenge I think um open conversations safe space what what does it mean for you how does this look in what if you would need to do this tomorrow what would you do to me or to for me no for you yeah for you for me I don't know I think I what I do is that I just I call a friend and then we talk and then I cry a little and then they say and then I reflect and then I take a step back I think it's a it's a process yeah it has include I I think therapy and reading books and just kind of mindfulness and breathing and and that goes back to the resources to kind of uh being more aware of the kind of conversations and the mental dialogues that you have and they're just kind of trying to tone tone them down or um I don't know it it it touches in the realm of personal development and and and psychology even yeah yeah so I have gone to therapy and I do try to meditate here and there and just breathe and all those things and it's kind of being aware that our cycles and that it's just an improvement that is a journey that is an ongoing process and then there are some periods that you're better than there are some periods that you're not and it's um and it's something that continues evolving and hopefully for the best and if you look at what you've learned about learning about yourself because that's basically what we're talking about what were some um big lessons what if you what were some things that really struck you as big insights and things you thought I wish I knew this sooner what did you read what did you do what did you experience um a couple one this I'm not my design I wish that was something that was told to me many many years ago kind of because it's a practice this this association like I did this but it's not me it's an extension of me that also that we are part of the design process that we are not this uh that we when we are a part of a system we are part of the system we're just not passive things that there is that there are implications that that projects give us back to kind of open that conversation but another one was something that I really like of this uh agency that I'm working with is that one of the first things that they do when they do the awarding is that they teach communication guidelines and I really like that because um it resonates with yeah um what they have is that they have a former designer that now has taken an education in Gestalt and then she presents that for a safe space for people to work effectively in groups we need a safe space based on research that Google and other things have done and around that safe space the one of the main qualities with what people feel secure and linked to that is communication so they have communication guidelines and there are seven and I hope it will remember them but the first one is I know that I listen to understand which is a very good one in first one just kind of being aware that you need to listen to understand the second one I know that I interpret and I check the interpretation with the person concerned because very often we're just projecting and then I you told you you were meaning no I know that I interpret and I check the interpretation the third one is I say but I mean what I mean and I mean what I say so speaking about yourself not on behalf of others the one is the fourth one is um I avoid using anonymous sources uh the fifth one is I stayed out of the conflicts of others the sixth one is very important I talk with and not about and then is the seventh I don't know and it sounds like what kind of culture do you have there but there is a very nice culture I think precisely because of that because there is an explicit way of how we address each other often with I'm curious about these kind of guidelines how do you feel that they are actually lived that's one of the challenges I often see it yeah of course it needs a lot of reinforcement okay so for a while there were and and so they come every now and then so what we did the second time we just have these little memory cards that are everywhere in the computers just kind of as little reminders but I do think that it starts being embedded in the culture so I see people checking themselves when kind of well we should not talk about this person and so on which is it's an important thing it becomes part of the culture for um for the people who are listening right now and sort of inspired and want to want to start putting this into practice your advice what are some of the things that they could do on maybe a daily level that would help them along this path what would you say can we practice um I would say kindness in general it's it's very it sounds super cheesy but I do think that when we are aware of the fact that our words matter both externally and internally I think that's it that's a good starting point kind of checking a little bit how I'm saying things and I think if if you're a designer you are aware of the impact of form and form and if you're a service designer you know that form is of many things not only the physical form but the form of the processes and so on and so being a little bit paying a little bit the tension of how you're talking to others and how you're talking to yourself and making notes of how can that form be kinder that is an exercise that I try to do I fail very often but I just it's on my never ending to do list of things and that I think that will be one that it's um it's I hope a good one and practicing a kind of form of communication being aware of how you talk with others and trying to do it in the best possible way that you can in that moment if we had to summarize this conversation what would you say is the morale of your story um that we're all in a journey uh and that every I think again there are many things that we don't know about the people that are around us and there is a little bit of fear here and there in everyone I think so just being aware that even some people that look super strong they're not so all the time um not assuming so much uh just kind of checking in a little bit more and making the questions to others and to you yourself like being a little bit more present um and accepting that where you are present and you're not in the good move that you maybe can do something about it just not have to be there all the time if people want to dig into this uh topic more are there any books videos things you can recommend a lot from the top of my head at this point um I think if they want to go into kind of the more design early part of this someone a friend that works in not the same thing but the end of this awareness that we're part of the systems and that we are that is the jocina pink he just finished her phd and link shopping we had her on the show higher jocina I think her her approach is very much aligned with these kind of things this you're part of the system and just be aware of the invisible things and dig deep so that is kind of from the practitioner part I really recommend her work and her way of thinking for the other more everything that has to do with mindfulness something to help you breathe more and kind of be more present and so on which is a never-ending path of you can choose your flavor there I think yeah speaking about flavors what are some of the things other people who are listening right now are doing around this topic I think there are again like you said often it's not the lack of resources it's finding the ones that are most valuable so I would be really curious if people are also on this same journey please share some of the resources you're using I would be curious to hear if people want to continue this conversation with you is there a way that they can get in touch um on LinkedIn I think okay Natalia I will make sure all the links are as always I was always in the in the show notes yeah um Natalia thanks so much for oh my thank you being vulnerable being courageous enough to to be on the service design show and sharing you and I'm sure you've inspired some some people here through this episode thank you if you made it this far make sure to leave a comment down below and share your biggest insight from this episode and while you're at it just share this episode with one other person today who might find it helpful as well that way you'll help to grow the service design show community and that helps me to invite more inspiring guests like Natalia here on the show for you if you want to continue to get inspired and see more practical advice check out this video because we're going to continue over there see you


What's up everybody Jason from jazby's case breaks com it is another new release day the same same thing There's like four new releases today guys 2020 tops triple threads baseball nine box intercase break random teams number one And this is a early bird spot giveaway So buy one of the first 18 spots to get entered a winter free spot number everybody gets around and team in the break This is a lone intercase break. So good luck Let's roll the dice and this would be for the customer names The early bird in the teams so six and a two for eight times. Good luck one two three four five six seven Eight and boom eight times Danny there you go. Congratulations You got a free spot just for being an early bird There you go eight times now one two seven Sean Down to Brian. Let's go eight times here. It's down to the Miami more Sean with the twins Brian with the Orioles Western with the Astros came with the Indians Danny with the Mets Jack with the Dodgers Brady with the Giants Danny with the Rays de Portia the Pirates John with the Mariners Eric with the D-backs Willie with the Yankees Nancy with the National David H Brewers de Portia the Royals Chris with the Cardinals John with the Tigers AJ with the Boston Red Sox Brian with the Cubs Let's so that is Richard Miller with the Phillies Daniel Cohen with the Rangers Nancy with the Rockies Megan with the Reds Darren with the Braves de Portia the Padres Christopher with the Blue Jays Anthony with the White Sox Wesley with the Oakland A's Christopher the Angels and Brian with the Miami Marlins Probably 30 minutes 25 30 minutes. They're usually take a little bit of time. All right, guys So if anybody wants to trade, let me know. Did you guys see guys at Stephon Gilmore?  I mean it's it's nine box cases, but you can consider the inner because a whole master has 18 All right, trade one of clothes And everything was I mean that's the one thing look at I love that the nfl was trying to be optimistic about all this But remember, I mean health officials tell you it takes up to 14 days potentially to show symptoms, right and to test positive I mean the fact that You know, it's only not even been a week And some timing players are still testing positive. So Some of these players, you know might have had it, you know, right with with cam Newton But they just haven't shown symptoms or tested positive yet. It's only been less than a week You know And it's like medical officials tell you it takes up to 14 days, right? That's where they make you quarantine So it's just like man at this rate, I mean Patrons ended up playing because they thought everybody tested negative and they were good to go and at the time they may have tested negative But yeah, that just shows you right there that I mean it just takes a couple days, right And my thing is that then see it's it's it's it's more tough though when you kind of push back a game and cancel a game right But my thing is that if like, let's say the tines can't play to this week and let's say the patreons because there's an outbreak They should just like stop this week and just push back this season just like everybody else has You know, like I I don't see why that is a big deal I mean, I get it football such a physical sport. There's kind of no way to It's kind of push it back because people need to heal and rest up in the off season, but at the same time like If you still want this season to go on you're gonna have to push back weeks, right? But I guess it's I mean, I guess it is money, but wouldn't it I guess would you still be losing money if you just push it back a week or two? Right just to wait for everybody That will test the positives like It's clean again. Like I don't know that's just me I mean if other sports were able to do it especially like Baseball and all them that pushed it back and waited.  You know, that's kind of unfair advantage compared to other teams that Haven't had any weeks off. I got Barry larkin at 299 and shogo for 25 And think about imagine if patreons my host has a positive I mean not to say he won't rest up and heal right and not heal right, but come back from from this but You know his his fiance, right? They just got engaged. She like announced that they're pregnant. It's just like man, that could be even more dangerous 36 Sonny gray And we have a redemption over there. So let's hide that right there really quick So just base cards We got andrew jones out of 18 Bray is going to darin We got nullan aeronado 2 out of 3. How about that? Look at that patch Three color patch nullan aeronado Who has a colorado rockies? Nancy does and we have a redemption guys Congratulations You're due to receive A triple threads autographs symbol jumbo single jumbo relic emerald Parallel louise castillo for the Cincinnati reds So Megan with that one. There you go small tax, but Our next one does this product have a mystery redemption? They usually like finest and I used to have mystery redemptions, but I don't know if they were still doing that That's that's a good thing Sam. Yeah, I mean that's what I was saying like the nfo Look, I get it everybody in this whole world's losing money, especially in the United States But then I felt had money to create some type of bubble And if and if it was about being away from family for too long, then you bring the family along, you know If other sports could have done it, I know it's more accessible for basketball and maybe well baseball didn't do it But baseball could have been accessible because they have spring training But I don't know. I feel like it is more tough in the football field, right? You have to create like I don't know how many football fields But if you really needed to there's a lot of land in the United States you can definitely use And it doesn't have to be an arena You know, it could have just been something with some nice grass You put something over it, right? And there you go Boom done But I get it. They wanted to avoid doing that but I mean the NBA bubble kind of shows you That is basically the safest way This is the Zorro Triple relic here for the Washington Nationals number to 18 Trey Turner, Victor Robles and Juan Soto Two redemptions here guys Let's go with the live hit first Paul de Jong number to 36 Let me have two redemptions guys. Good luck. Let's show you the first one Base rookies and future phenoms autograph rally card Parallel right there Eloy Hemen is wow for the White Sox See what this one is though really quick That'll be out of 75 Redemption and we got triple third autograph single jumbo relic Sean Yamaguchi Toronto Blue Jays Blue Jays wanted Christopher a lot of redemptions to start us off guys Next box Also, I think triple thirds has one of the most beautiful base cards out there besides tribute I feel like the base cards in this stuff is always really nice Well, I don't know Cooney jr. The 99 you guys see what Ronald Cooney jr. Did yesterday out of 275 Eloy Dude is such a stud Yeah, everything is well. No, that's not true. I think the base rookies and future phenoms are on card But traditionally everything is pretty much stickers But um if the redemption is coming is because they don't have the on card And after yesterday, I would hope so right pat. I mean a Cooney has such a stud Like to think that some of his stuff was going down for a little bit. Yeah, but what else did he do Tyler? What else happened besides him getting hit by a pitch Michael Comforto to 27 that's Mets going to Danny your first spot and Jonathan Daza number 250 I mean he ain't lying, right? He ain't lying Nick Solak 2020 rookie and there you go. That's an on card out of 75 Oh, that's right. Remember that one? Yeah, that's right pat looking better and better. That's right I mean, obviously he's a great investment though. I mean he's as long as you know, of course, no major injuries to him He's gonna be good for a while Four out of nine dj Lemay you I know pat. Did you see that I hit four straight? Right for for for our out hit four straight uh staying glasses by doing you know this And I actually had found another box and I told him do you want the box in the back or do you want this one? Well, guess what? Someone else broke that last box later that night and I pulled another stained glass and it was Lamar Jackson So I'm all right when it shows the other box He would have five in a row That's how crazy it was That was nuts and I got told people I got 11 Uh, no dj was out of uh four out of nine for the Yankees But I told people I was gonna head out like around before like 11 ish, you know, because I was gonna come in a little early today But I was like as long as you guys keep buying I'll stay here and then I had to stay until like one third Rich Hoskins, Ryan Sandberg I know that's what we're talking about. It was five that day. That was what is it one gardener mentioned one drewlock two two, um Russell Wilson's and one Lamar Jackson That was crazy Oh, it was fun yesterday. Those cellos are really fun to break too As Zach Moss Genesis the Tom Brady I know it was like an extra two hours. It's all good. I'm probably gonna stay just as late tonight I feel like today's gonna be super super busy Karrigan jr. And Dave Winfield So that's why I only came in a couple hours early today instead of coming like at nine or something when I usually do So I'm after this I'm gonna Hand it off to Joe probably I'll probably beat her by then and then um Get set up and go live at two o'clock over there. Did you also get my message on the big nav? Pat I know. Yeah, you've been well. Hey, you're just like the Dodgers, right? They're over there in texas and they're on your time And you over here on cali time Well, I ended up winning it, but I was so mad that I had to go that high Andres Muñoz Little rookie jersey auto on card number to 65 Tren Grisham four out of nine For the Padres Advert alzole autograph nine out of 99 for the Cubs Going to Brian Blasso Brandon Lowe to 27 Reyes, that is going to Danny All right guys Still have five boxes guys five boxes. So I'm thinking by the time I get done with this guy I think Joe can have to take over So start the picker team I know Pat. Well, that makes me a little happier is if I think I shipped it out already. So But um, if The guy does ship it out and send me the right makedown then I'm a little happier because I definitely got that for a steal, but I I Not to say I overpaid for the Genesis. I mean for the nebula, but I paid a lot more than I thought I had to So yeah, it does kind of balance out And thank you for that pat. I would have never found it So thank you for that man Shoahio Otanio 299 Kyle Lewis Oh, that's so good, man. I mean obviously a Genesis is always always wanted but Still got some burl stuff. Not too bad We still we still have plenty of boxes of that too. So I think we'll still be doing a lot of sellers today. I believe That stuff is just hot hot Kyle Lewis rookie base Mariners Victor Robles Number to 18 Alex Bregman to 36 They're Kristen Yellich to 36 got another redemption We got a triple threads autograph single jumbo relic parallel of Max Kepler for the minnesota twins. Come on max Sign your autographs man. Sean with that one Also, I think my mile sanders comes to the shop today too whoo It's gonna be a good day I did pat actually I did come in the mail the other day. I appreciate that man Yeah, the uh Prism silver, correct, right riggy Henderson and Derek cheater Kyle Lewis rookie again base And we got how about this that has a nice triple relic right there all MVPs six out of 36 Mike trout relic Cody Belanger and Kristen Yellich And that should be randomize the jack has a Dodgers Uh, Christopher the angels and brewers David H It's a little triple relic right there And we got a Larry Walker five out of nine for the Colorado Rockies Colorado Rockies with that one Nancy Walker Bueller out of 36 for the Dodgers Cannot hear me rhyme It's pretty loud, right? Is that for everybody? And I don't really have to have to have it this close triple threads autograph single jumbo relic Of Another one of max Kepler Maybe restart it Ryan or I mean Maybe the volume's down for you on your end But if you're if you're chatting with me Should should should be able to hear me this guy loud and clear. Okay I mean there's one thing that I do like about tops redemptions that they give you the team on there So there's no debate like Even if there wasn't a checklist you couldn't look at like, you know for sure what team it's going All right, you're done to 50 Max Scherzer. All right, let's see. Oh, sorry Ryan. It sounds fine to me on my phone Ryan to 99 and josh donaldson You got me go cabrera number to 18 How about a four out of nine of this guy? We were just talking about him Ronald acuña jr. Four out of nine triple relic and autograph lead off dingers Darren with the braves That is a beaut Bonus hits. Wow. How about this? Seven out of 27 triple relic and auto yvonne, rodriguez, adren, bell tray and alvis Andrus Texas rangers going to daniel cohen That was a nice little box right there very nice nice little rondo cunha And a little pita lanza five out of nine and a redemption We got relic emerald parallel single jumbo relic of Sunny gray since 90 reds It's going to megan All right, two more boxes guys mani machata to 2.99 and garret coal to 99 Will clark to 275 and alex bregman Dan's v swanson little triple relic or actually one single relic to 36 reynolds six out of nine Uh, everything ships. Wesley. I believe so Yeah, triple threads. I think we ship everything Pirates these base cards are too nice triple threads single autograph jumbo relic emerald parallel of shun yamagushi toronto blue jays Yeah, there's a lot of redemptions unfortunately Base rookies and future phenoms autograph relic card emerald Which what was emerald again emeralds out of 50 Jesus Lizardo for the opeland athletics When a westley westley thomas All right last box guys. Good luck box This one feels this one feels a little heavier. I'm not that much heavier See what we got maybe I'm just Maybe I'm just playing myself It does feel heavy, but it doesn't feel like a book Sometimes you can tell right away. It has bigger. It has like two jumbo relics. That's what Matt Chapman and reggie jackson So I don't know if there's a white whale in here, but there usually is one white whale in a master case This was a lone inner case. So There's no guarantee, of course Barry larkin at 275 Stephen strawsburg And well, that's a louis robber base That's probably one of the nicer base cards Louise sighting Anthony with that one Oh, this one only had This only has one hit Oh, maybe that's where there's three hits over there out of 38 Yeah, if I remember correctly, white whales are one per master and it's basically a printing plate autograph 101 And like the plate's white. So I guess they've named it white whale I don't know where the origin came from with that, but Well, here's a one of one though, not a white whale, but one of one gary sanchez Yankees it's going to william It's a one of one out of 50 Eugenio suarez for the reds It's going to Megan And there you go, guys tons of hits So the inner case breaks One of one right there nice louis robber base. There was a lot of redemption. So that was kind of like The downside of this I guess Ronald akuna junior out of nine was very nice. So triple relic triple auto But Very nice stuff though guys triple that is always very popular Again, this was just a lone inner case break. There was there was no master for this this random team And if we do put up more, I'm sure we'll start off from a fresh master But um Appreciate it guys. We have one randomizer to do here And it is for this triple relic Yeah, well See my thing is that I know D d t said earlier, but a box did have an extra hit in here. So when we got Or what's it up? We got this This and this all in the same box, right? Or I think it was a relic. I think it was these three All right, so I guess technically It it evened out, you know Can't complain when they're missing an auto, but we can't complain also when we're getting an extra autograph Or we have to complain I guess too, right? So I guess technically we did get that We did get that uh That extra hit there to kind of average it out and even it out, but But I'm sure of course isn't the only product that every once in a while. There's a missing auto or relic Unfortunately, it just happens All right, guys, so let's quickly get a little dice roller and a list randomizer going right here And this is for angels Dodgers And brewers Let's roll the dice and we got ourselves a 12 Six in the six. Good luck one two three four five six seven eight nine 10 11 12 Boom as it should be Those doggers at the top after 12 times. So that's gonna go to jack. There you go, man. Appreciate it guys. Jasper case breaks dot com


So I think that as I indicated on the panel, we have a number of members that partner with Postal Service, partner with designated operators, partner with the private sector, and build upon public-private partnerships where there's an opportunity to serve the end-user customer. So in my estimation, and I think speaking on behalf of the members, having a wider private sector engagement just allows that partnership to build and go deeper and to actually continue on what is really our association mission, which is to reduce the barriers to the efficient flow of goods and information across borders. So the UPU is already a partner in that in many ways with IMag, but we also have the opportunity to take that a step further by allowing for greater participation, as I noted at the working group level, all the way up to thinking about the long-term reforms of the union.


don't be a comparative machine become a learning machine it's much better all i care about is like what is the little thing i can learn from this person and you know Abraham Lincoln a great quote he said he learned from everybody you know even if oftentimes it's what not to do there's a good book on this called outliers by Malcolm Gladwell it's a pretty powerful book man it's a pretty powerful book