Now, I come to the rational between the two postulates of statistical mechanics and the I already talked about the algorithmic hypothesis. So basic idea is that we do a huge number of interacting systems and this section dimensional phase space that Boltzmann and Gibbs developed Maxwell did not. Now, so this motion just the question you asked motion is determined by forces and the instantaneous positions and intermolecular interactions that is what Hamiltonian sequence comes in and so the path followed by the represent you are executing the natural this is very important this Kubos language we are a great stat mac guy called Rigo Kubo their natural motion so what we are following is a natural motion of the system in the phase space so trajectory is very important no external force is there okay so relation then we want to establish now the relationship between such a microscopic trajectory so a trajectory is a microscopic thing and measure properties and this is I could do that I could calculate the pressure but if I could do Newton's equation hold the system then all the if I could tell the atoms and molecules bombarding against the just the way Maxwell did in in his ideal gas you know calculating the pressure pv equal to one third mnc square I could do that but unfortunately I cannot do that because I cannot calculate all these things okay that's why we are now going to do fast we do a on some time averaging this is the time averaging that I already introduced that you follow it for a long time this is the kinetic energy mv square the average over a time trajectory which particle this is exactly what I wrote down sometime ago here I am just kind of recapitulating the whole thing yeah yeah well a little bit of a problem yeah that it should be yeah I think one has to do yeah this is always a problem okay so so time average from theoretical point of view it is impossible to generate a long-term trajectory of a microscopic system with large number of particles that I have been telling so we had no other option but to go pure probabilistic description the one that I describe fortunately the probabilistic description can be developed with the help of only two postulates and one hypothesis that's the beauty of the whole thing so then that is in order to do that Gibbs came out we let Gibbs came out with the brilliant brilliant mental construction of ensemble and that was really amazing though it was one should remember that he followed the same ensemble which Boltzmann followed which is NVE so all these postulates two postulates and they are got a hypothesis are valid in the micro canonical ensemble NVE ensemble is called the micro canonical ensemble as we will do more later so so this is so this is a a language is that the kind of uncertainty or the imprecise is the same statistical description so if these are important interesting thing again I am as I am saying recapitulating the concept of an ensemble based on the realization that the system and equilibrium must have a very large number of microscopic states this partly probably probably my query the natural motion of the system at non-zero temperature takes the system to a finite fraction of the states there is a very delicate question here which we will deal much much later in a in a time that is comparable time of measurement is very important even when you are doing experimental measurement we are going to a very tiny fraction of the total sample space very important and there is a concept of self-similarity and these things will come in to do that measurement of my body if you now consider the system difference at fixed energy at all this time then the trajectory moves on a constant energy surface that is the NVE and according to the laws of mechanics a classical quantum and that generates the trajectory but we do not need the detailed information is extremely important we do not need the information at least for the ensemble based equilibrium statistical mechanics that we let gives developed we do not need there is a again again saying but we need certain realistic understanding of this trajectory and realistic understanding of what we are talking of averages and I instead of taking the time evolution of the system or the microscopic states as required by Newtonian mechanics we constantly a huge number of states and as I am keep saying is NVE that is where hold this thing was set up but we going from NVE to temperature T is a little different thing we have no control over microscopic states of the system and neither do we want to have any control we do not want them but we want them to flow over the phase space that is why equal probability and organic hypothesis is important the flow in the microscopic state in the phase space in the trajectory should cover a significant part of the system okay so ensemble represent a collection of mental replica and is called micro canonical ensemble trajectory system travels in a constant energy surface all the points in trajectory are equally likely that is what the as I said there are no other option and good fortune of us that this works out okay actually it was still very doubtful for a long time even in 1950 there is a guy called who wanted to push Shannon entropy called Jains who wrote to Ullenbeck saying to making that okay because of your difficulties stat mac you should probably consider information entropy and this kind of as a mainstream stat mac so Ullenbeck gave the famous answer saying that since the Lianian proved that one can explain statistical phase transition within statistical mechanics we don't need your Shannon entropy and that turned out to be correct we did not need that so complete trajectory of the system can be obtained if we cancel anybody neutral situation that is the one partly we do when you do time-dependent statistical mechanics that get part of it the trajectory generate of the few tens of nanosecond and few interval and we time interval we dump it even then huge data is there which comes handy sometime so this is kind code on details of the understanding what how could be the phase space can be quantified the smallest parameter turns out to be Planck's constant and we this analogy is beautiful these but I am not going to go into two detail on that right now I just want to say the following so these are the different kind of ensembles that I will do in the next lecture so the main idea of this lecture is something which my intensely fond of is these two postulates because I figured out to an extent the interrelation between the two postulates the necessity of the postulates and the algorithm hypothesis is only when I wrote the book so all these things can be connected and all these done was done by again it is very strange the person who does does everything like Maxwell did everything of kinetic theory of gases all the equations that you do under-graduate Schrodinger did all the same thing and then Willard Gibbs did much of it almost alone there so this time average and ensemble average you all did that one thing as this question was asked that when does why the problem is that this is a question a problem we worked out that if you have a system like that let's see it's stuck here these are energy energy landscape and the particle is random executing random work here and if it gets stuck here did we simulate it and we simulate it and we simulated four years we couldn't get a converged result the guy who was doing or not stupid that is because the system as you make it is larger then you face larger and larger barriers larger larger deeper minima and you are thrown out of the track we never got converged result this is the reason this is the thing you did the ergodic hypothesis if ergodic hypothesis so these systems was ergodic later I found out that there is a famous paper when human and stein who said diffusion and these are beautiful paper by I go to Sekisan and Sholgoth Banerjee that on this this issue but we were really put on the right track by Newman and stein two mathematicians Santa Fe Institute and current institute saying that one-dimensional random is called random energy landscape diffusion in one-dimensional random energy lessons pathological in one day that exactly what turned out to be correct so then postulate the quality probability and then its state is visited equal number of times so it a very long time the probability every state is equally problem and then the of course these two are connected very very important two postulate system and up to be supplemented by ergodic hypothesis these are with assures the practical validity of the fast postulate without the ergodic hypothesis your fast postulate as you are asking is mute okay mathematicians and this is then this done by sometimes called bulgeman senai the senai is the one who first proved ergodic for a system of hard disks like me at balls but on a 2d he did that real proof is amazing is the boobinovich and senai all mathematicians you know system hard disk is a beautiful beautiful thing that was done and so the ergod states that during its trajectory in phase space a system is free to explore all the microscope it has to be free here it is not free that guy is not really getting stuck there it has to be free sufficiently long period of time spends time in a state that is proportional to the volume of the state in phase space that opens the room for NPT or NNVT ensemble where energy now plays an important role so it's like that I think I think I will stop here today the measure of ergodicity and all these things I am not going to go into but but I think today yeah all these beautiful measures are there this is essentially done by Dev Thirumalai and mountain by doing the how it is connected to diffusion is given in my book the all the details things and how you talk of diffusion is very interesting as I was telling one of my lecture here that you have to if you want to talk of many body diffusion whole system is diffusing then you have this kind of quantity that's what Thirumalai and mountain used to show the breakdown of our gaudy series glass transition is approached but that means you are not talk of one particle you are thinking of whole phase whole configuration space of the system all right I think I think I'll there are many other things but I'll stop here to recap started with we started with the probability and statistics central limit theorem and several other interesting things then you went to space space trajectory and we discussed to next what will happen we will do starting with these postulates of so in my book I talked about realization of promises we now go from micro canonical ensemble to canonical and canonical ensemble and then when you go to fluctuation we start deriving the beautiful equations like mean square fluctuation specific heat and all these things and then the other other systems will follow any any questions sure right right right right absolutely so whenever you have orientation the phase space becomes larger absolutely so for example when you are doing water molecules you have the orientation sure that you see that at a level formal that doesn't pose any problem the reason is that you just expand the you know you expand your notation x now has position and orientation and P will have now momentum all all kinds of momentum angular momentum so angular momentum so one reason is that you know it it it decays very fast usually so its conservation hardly pose a problem for that one momentum conservation is also doesn't pose too much of a problem in most of our calculations but yes but the formalism part nothing changes see this is a essentially like in sorting an equation you write down a wave function psi you don't know when you are writing down sorting an equation of a many body system you do not think of solving it at that point you are writing and so all the all the theory that you prove with a psi and everything that is just it's just formal formalism to whether it has particle in a box or whether interacting systems and electron gas nothing matters so you have to what I am trying to say you have to separate out the formal path and separate out I once in I was the good friend of a friend called Jim Lille who was developing a theory of scattering with John light reactive scattering I think called Lille light theory and he was all the time writing this very very difficult equation with momentum angular momentum position so I always told him Jim how are you going to put these things he said Bhima let me develop the formalism first he developed the formalism then he put in computer and it became very famous theory so when you are developing the formalism you have to think of applications but do not get bogged down by applications at that stage so yes to you when you are writing down phase space or writing down these equations or partition functions it does not matter whether you are x as orientation or position you have to be able to think like that you have to be able to think in a very formal way but at the same time back up your mind you know when you are going to do applications these formal things will become real things and that happens that much faith you have to have science is always for optimist people science is never for pessimists I have already told you that this is the third lecture fourth will start with the partition function and then we will what level equation is there but I might not do level equation to seriously level equation is the equation that allows you to track to generate the trajectory in phase space is a nothing but a Hampton equation I am not going to do that instead I will continue with the verma ensembles I will go to fluctuation and from fluctuation which is a wonderful chapter I tell you that from there we will do monotomic gas and diatomic gas but everywhere it will be very practical like when I do monotomic gas I will tell you want to tell you about the use of that in modern day real life problem like protein dn interaction dark dn intercalation and that has been used to do find out the binding of chemotherapy to act down on my sin to dna and then again we go to see the very interesting thing that entropy comes with the monotomic gas beautifully but the concept of rotational vibrational entropy those are very important thing rotational entropy in molecule usually 30% of the total entropy that comes to diatomic and then all your drives like the normal modes your the fact that CV is 3 by 2 R all these things comes from just a diatomic molecule is amazing that how much you can know from doing monotomic and just diatomic then we will do is model which is the first really so monotomic gas with a non-interacting diatomic we will do non-interacting first time interacting system we will do is model okay


We're glad to know you're still there and watching Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. And right now it's time to look at the headlines that made it to the front pages of our dailies this morning. And we're glad to also have with us the person that will be X-raying some of these headlines. It's Mr. Chris Keinde. Chris, good morning and welcome to the program. Thank you very much for having me. Good morning. Good morning to you. Okay, we're beginning with the nation, the Punch newspaper rather. Punch newspaper this morning is our first spot of call. And we're just trying to figure out what we're supposed to get from there. Okay, the leading headline there is that 2024 federal government plans 26 trillion Naira budget debt servicing to gulp 8.25 trillion Naira. That is from the Punch newspaper leading headline. I'd like you to begin with the comments on that. Yes, good enough. The budget is obvious that federal government is almost ready for the project. So that means that once the budget is ready, they have to send it to the national assembly. But therefore they have to pass it. That means that probably we see a budget that is passed before the end of the 31st of December 2023. And so that the budget cycle can start from January. That's what it's about to be. And like what we have in the past, we are trying to just see our budget starting in March, some June, some April. So yeah, it's that late. But the last government try is possible there to evolve to the January to December budget cycle. We don't know. And secondly, this is going to be the highest budget we've had since the history of Naira since we've already dependent. So that's not surprising. But when you look at that budget, you can see that deficit is going to go about 3.25 trillion. That should be a source of concern to anyone. And that is part of what we've been saying. We continue paying debt at a point where we're almost using about 90% of our revenue to service debt. So even if it's going to be as of I think about 3.25 trillion, then you can imagine what is there for capital projects. The third one is the fact that most of them I personally don't believe in our SOPA budget because implementation has always been the problem. You see, of course, at the end of the budget cycle, you try to look at the performance of the budget. You can barely across our board. You can barely see if the ministries, MDAs, MTTs, project performance exceeding more than 40%. Ask yourself, what is that for? So I hope that this is going to be different. And we're going to be avoided when people are oriented. I'm not able to look at it right now. I think we should just be dealing more with capital projects because what we are having now is a structural deficit across the country. And we look at our infrastructure, including even roads. I'll tell my brother, I'm sure one of the heads of the government will capture it. And they go and say, you fly the Toadman Land Bridge. The Toadman Land Bridge is a dead trap now. We cannot speed on that bridge, especially if you're heavy from the Oshuket and to the island. It's full, heavy, full to the island. There is nothing in the stream which we're going to process. So those are part of the problem we are having. I hope some of these projects are going to take over. And lastly, it's also we're going to Oshuk. We have to cut down on our location to security. We are in a situation where we have practically 40% or 30% of our projects going to the security, our security architecture is no good for us. If the government tells us that insecurity is no longer as bad as it was in 2015 or there ever, then why are we spending so much in security? Yes, I know that the country has to be secure, but it's not as bad as it was because we see billions and billions of money coming to the military and to the army. And at the end of it all, nothing is too much to show for it. So I believe that that is where the way to go. Even if we're going to pump enough money into security, we should go to Niger Police and not the Niger Air. And it depends less on the military because in military, it's supposed to just depend right there against the standard immigration. So what are the responsibilities of securing our internal securities and that if they were on it and they were able to do the job? I don't know how many people will agree that the funding to security or for security should be cut, but your reasons are quite strong. Well, we have a situation where only 38% of the budget for 2024 will be used for maybe capital expenditure. But we have personnel and debt servicing costing us 62% of that budget, that very, very big budget. And like you said, it's worrisome. But now, even after all the talk about trying not to take loans by this government, we have seen here that the federal government gets over $1.5 billion. That's the headline, Fresh World Bank AFDB Loan, December. That is according to the Minister of Finance. Okay, so we're expecting to get $1.5 billion loan from the World Bank and AFDB. Your comments please. Although it has come down in history that in Nigeria's history, the last government was the highest borrower of funds as it were. I used that word for international agencies and foreign countries. But at the rate at which the government is moving forward, that has just been there for about three months in this government and the rate at which they have borrower in Nigeria, the various administrations may just be a tight fit. And the President told us that this is not the way to go. That we're going to cut down on our borrower. But the fact is that, stay as yourself. Even if they don't borrow, then I don't wait for people to run the budget as it were. But you have to understand, my brother, that he who is a borrower, he who is a sorer. Definitely we continue to borrow and borrow. Most of the debts will not be paid by this government.  There's no problem in borrowing. And I've said that time and time again. Other countries of the world, including the United States, but the difference between what they do and what we do here, they invest in issues, they invest in projects that will service the people that are able to create employment, that are able to have a return on investment. So they invest those things on key infrastructures. But here, rather than doing that, we borrow money to pay salary, borrow money for government officials to travel with their family and the rest of them. So at the end of it all, you just see that whatever we borrow as a loan from this international organization is not utilized effectively. And that becomes a problem. So I think that the government should think well, the economic team should think that they can be able to look at ways of raising more revenue, which will be able to diversify the economy and stop doing a sport-dependent country that depends on who you are. If you look at other sectors of the economy and they can expect a sport more, then that will solve the problem. Thirdly, is the fact that also the revaner we've been talking about, most of our money that we earn, when it's changed, we earn, we use it to also import petroleum products. But revaneries are working there, there will be no need for us. So that is part of the issue as a threat. Then we have to look at the Naira. The Naira has a today's over between 100 and 1,030 to about 1,040 Naira. That is unaccepted. Okay. Well, you just talked about the Naira there, and one of the headlines there is subsidy removal. Naira fall pushes food inflation to 30. something percent. I don't know how we are going to survive this year and next year. It's going to be a problem. And the most important part is that we are posing documents saying we should start in our bed. We are losing gas. We should start in our bed. We raise for some of the shocks, as it were, and we should place some level of shock as well. You see your legislators at the National Assembly buying 113 million Naira SUVs for themselves. Meanwhile, the minimum wage of 30,000 Naira, most of these things cannot be paid. The workers are begging for increment in salary. Nobody is guaranteeing that. The politics that the government promised that they're going to get to the poor in Nigeria is not getting anything. You see, I'm showing us as one of the people that is making the rent. We are a community that is dying of mistakes. We brought up a 10 kg bag of rice that was given to him to share to the community of over 1,000. So there is no necessity of purpose in the part of government. If the government is sincere, and they are able to create a new environment and make life meaningful for Nigerians, then overland, Nigerians are not... Compared to other parts of the world, Nigerians are the most patient people in the world. We do apologize. We know some of us that are lovers of... We are always equated that Nigerians are like Asuna fans. Very, very patient. We see them year in year. Supporting their club. The club has not won the EPL over 14 or 15 years. So that is Nigeria. If Nigerians are busy, necessities, food, roads, education, food, lights, good health. That's all. We don't ask for too much. But our government, we never, our leaders, we never look at that. Rather, they want to get rich out so that the poor can get poor. We wanted the health to understand the basic saying that the rich cannot sleep because the poor are weak. When they are weak, their sleep becomes a problem. Well, they have been talking in the Senate now. It got to the point where they have to say in the Senate and beg that they should let the poor breathe. I will never forget that. Let the poor breathe and the gavel went down for the senators to let the poor breathe. Maybe I understood it differently, but it was a terrible thing to have happened. Well, you just talked about palliatives. And I don't know, you have said everything. The insincerity of government is also making a lot of people doubt whether they should trust the government or not trust the government. And so some things may not even work. Palliatives, we understand that in the budget of 2023, from January to June, the budget was 3. something billion, 3.26 billion for fuel subsidy. And then they now made a budget of about 3.17 billion to also do palliatives for three months. So the amount of money that was for fuel subsidy for six months is almost the same amount that they are going to use for palliatives for three months. And we are wondering how we are being hoodwinked by this or there's something we do not understand. Right now, one of the headlines on still the same punch is palliatives. Nigerians condemn poor Russian lambast governors. Will this palliative even have any effect at all? I know you have talked about it, but what really do you think about this whole palliative thing? It is a total scam. It is a total scam. It is a total scam. It is just an avenue for money for the poor. We are even talking about palliatives. Wait and see when the empowerment is formed that they are talking about to the less privileged or whatever they call the vulnerable Nigerians. Just like the mama, the poor is government. I do not know why this government has been through this. This money is money that can be channeling into positive engagement for Nigerians. If you even build up some companies or whatever, short-term or long-term and make Nigerians employed, then that will help. But it is a place where you want to go through the route of also sharing money to about 15 million Nigerians in a country that does not have a basic data that can be able to determine have you ever, let me ask you, have you ever seen anybody that said that they have got any of this so-called money shared by governments? Right from the time of COVID. The minister there, the minister of Nigeria first told us that she was feeding our children during COVID. The children that were at home and the access and trillions and trillions of Nigerians now this government is going through that same route and deceiving themselves that they are going through. It doesn't make any sense to me. That is what it is. That is the government. But I'm forgetting that what is the definition of government? Government is you and I. It's not those that sit in a budget like government supposed to be the citizens because we are the employers of the book. We are the ones that employ them. Everybody, including the president is an employee of the Nigerian people and it is for us to be able to determine what are we getting? What are we getting? We are getting the short side of the stick, the short end of the stick. So all the so-called palliatives is a scam. Most of the money that I have given to the state government is cornered. Except for probably a state like Bono State. That is the only state that I personally say that has made any meaningful. As bad as the situation is in Bono State. That governor of Bono State is doing a wonderful job. He can see what he has done. Even with that government assistant see what he has done. He has chanted most of the money into my vehicle, into providing services, into providing food for his people. Those are things. All the ones that the government promised so-called thousands and thousands of them very good at the promise. To now nothing has happened. We are given one month of jail term by the NLC after the last strike was launched. And the NLC said that it is given to the federal government one month to be able to implement all the policies that have been with it. We are almost on the third month. Third week now. And practically nothing has happened. We have one month of what's happened. And as you see that the group has tried we tied anyone into the government. I don't even think NLC see us.  But the fact is that anywhere that I see that this party is working is just totally talking about it. I just believe that the government is just sharing money. The money that is not available we are just sharing it and give it to certain individuals. And it's just going to be pocketed up. It should be just the same. And we find a more fundamental way that this money is properly utilized. You said we must offset the pesos so amant. Just as Riley said, pesos so amant is what we recover from subsidy removal. On the other side we are also sharing policy because of the effect of the removal of subsidy. And it goes to the same amount if not more than whatever you said you have recovered. What sense does that make? What sense does that make? Do you believe the subsidy so that as you look at it the so-called policy that you are talking about how many people really get to but petroleum affect the life of every Niger. There is no single Nigerian whether in the village or in town that is not affected by the price hike in petroleum. So if you put I believe that you can hear subsidies should be removed where agreed to similar thing but what have you put in place that the people that you have removed the subsidy you are removing is whatever measure you are bringing in place to be able to replace that. We don't have. We are talking of dangling petroleum to now nothing has happened and we still go back to work. And it becomes a problem as the government of the market forces is going to determine the prices of petroleum and product. But here I know that the prices have been going up in the international market due to the war in Ukraine and Russia. And now the Israeli Hamas war. The prices of which automatically means that the price of important petroleum products is also getting high. So why is it that they have not increased the price also? We can see that this is just an economic somersault on the part of the problem. Let's go to the nation newsrefer. Some of the headlines are also on the punch newsrefer but let's take them from the nation how it's written there. A very sad incident where they wrote that some pensioners, two pensioners slumped during verification in Oshobo. Another story carried or another newspaper carried that 20 of them suffer from exhaustion because of these verification. I don't know with an age of technology why these people are still subjected to these let me hear your opinion about how these things are being done. It's from the young people NYSC how they have to come like 5,000 of them to one small office just to sign their signature or to the verification exercise that people have to be brought from their sick beds and all that. Can't it be done differently? Yes Where there's will, there's hope and there's a way but the way we do things in our country is in this year of technology verification doesn't have to go through that but the fact is that there's corruption within the system and those within the pension board or whatever you call them have a systematic way of siphoning money and putting fictitious names to register just to be able to see so what's happened during the time of now jade may now remember that chairman that pension on the pension or whatever committee the person that was asked to go and verify the losses within the pension now went even deep in his hand more into his hands stole billions and billions of Naira with his son. I think his son is still on the roll but he's in jail now so that is what I bet technology will know that we can do this better and at times when you look at the situation and you see people that's supporting corruption but you see that some of this thing is what some of the siphon servants think and some of them just say that let me have my own share of the cake now rather than wait for my retirement where I don't even know that I'm going to get my pension Naira small term as old as 80 some are 75 and rest of and you call them every year to come and do verification I keep them in the sun for hours. Is there no more dignifying way of going about this verification without putting them through this can they be, we can do provide a good place for them to sit down and they will provide them with basic things like food, drink and rest of the city I can see that in a more relaxed way you don't have to do it in batches short of about you can say today about 50 people should come around and you put them in a month instead of asking old grandfathers and the rest of the grandmothers to come and the end of it how much is even the pension some of them might not get more than 5,000 Naira or 10,000 Naira is that why you ask them to come so is a collapse of the system and one thing we get a more realistic way of going about this they don't need to come around do your verification confirm if they are alive then you pay them and you just let them book an account and money will be wired into the account those that are the petitions yes, we are able to ask it's not the first time it happened in the year past we are using the money to make the pensioners remember you see this money to pensioners come and line up in front of the pension office in we see zoom 4 and 3 area and some of them we sleep at for weeks I'm not saying of days we see them sleeping outside on care flow just because they came for verification for their pension that is not good at all we've seen talking about pension and monies that need to be paid to some people they say N-POWER it has been scrapped anyway or we heard the news that has been scrapped the beneficiaries will get a back lock a paid back lock from next month that's what the federal government is promising but that may not be as strong as a story where the senator that has been removed senator Elijah Abbo has been removed and he is attributing his ordeal to the fact that he was fighting that the senate president now should not be the senate president and he feels that his travails are because he fought against the presidency of senator senate president Abbo over appeal court verdict Abbo Abbo clash over appeal court verdict appeal court has said senator Abbo and he is saying it's because of Acquabio well I don't know how how much you know about the the internal politics in the national assembly and I don't know how you will rate this statement by senator Abbo senator Abbo is on his own as we say he is on his own because I don't know what that has to has to do with the senate president he is saying that the senate president is a member of the court of page tribunal or the initial tribunal that was able to give his verdict he is just looking for a story to go down to the fact that he has been charged it cannot fall to the courts that we are able to do that because the media did it then it is based on the evidence and based on the evidence I don't see there was no place I saw Acquabio coming to testify which I opposed the election of the president of the president of the senate it was not going to contest it didn't contest so what is he talking about he is now trying to rub in the audience of color this is a senator that had the opportunity we want younger individuals in the senate this is one of the people that we are looking for senator Abbo I think is under 40 and under 50 it is not 50 years so you are expecting as an ambassador to be able to present them in the senate what do you see in the senate when a man is slapping a woman and the rest of them even during the screening of one of the ministers he heard what he said when one of them was being asked how come you went to secondary university at this tender you are talking about and you don't have to say some people are very brilliant they don't even know to go to the all sorts of things these have been controversial during the election they have been sad let them just go and lick it and prefer for 20 to 30 percent but they sat on the table of disney president they are just hanging out to straw and that is what he said and disney president had replied as he planned this morning he had been sad and he should just make matters worse that is what he said I just hope that is not an enactment of what they do and how it is possible for someone to influence judgment because if he is confident enough to say that that means he knows what can be done by particular individuals to influence judgment I just hope that like you said he is just holding on to straws and all that but talking about sacking there is a possibility we might be seeing a sack the deputy governor has lost the beat to stall impeachment so in fact in Nigeria when you talk impeachment they are not even talking about indictment they are talking about removal which is not the same thing anyway but they are talking impeachment now it is a wrong terminology by the way but this is what it is he was trying to stall that process of impeachment now the courts have ruled that he cannot stop it anymore but I am concerned about what has been happening between principles or between governors and the deputy governor I don't know if the rules spelt out by the constitution for the governor or for the deputy governor makes them nothing more than just an aid to the governor that the governor can just by snap of finger remove you if they want to remove you it gives me why I don't know how you feel there is this some of us have constitutional rules for the deputy governor because the constitution is as opened up deputy governors as it were so they are just at the at the distance of the governor so what for the governor to pass on to them that is what what is happening in the two states same problem where the governor just has his deputy to remove away from governor I am going to hire one of our store office outside within time for the deputy governor and he has not been given anything so to do so I think we should need to those that crafted our constitution should be able to look at that and be able to give specific functions so that everybody knows where it belongs yes the governor is the chief executive of the state but the fact is remains that without the deputy governor so that means that it is a joint ticket most of it is not most of it is not a ticket you saw what happened in Biasa state where somebody won an election just because of the fact an election as a governor just a day, 24 hours before he was sworn in how to know that his deputy was not properly nominated and then he had some issues and because of that he lost it so the deputy cannot the constitution cannot do cannot become a governor without the deputy but coming to undue state what is very nice in undue state is a terrible one is politics has played but for the mental issues I need to ask where is the governor agreed to do the routine in a terrible way it has been established that it is not in undue state that he says back is in the country but nobody have seen him in undue state so where is the problem we are told that he is in the background he is resident in the background is the background the resident where he is supposed to be is that where he is supposed to be and because of that the opposition came undue state to try to protest and try to ask where is the governor he used them he used them to try to know where the citizens of undue state need to know but what the police the police barricaded and stopped them from that protest by the constitutional constitution it has been established that police cannot stop anybody from protesting nobody, no police not even the inspector general it has been established of the supreme court the only thing you can do is to make sure that that protest is peaceful and by providing a kind of corridor for the protestors if the forerunners go out of their way and they become violent then they can be arrested but that you stand and stop people from being out to protest that is unconstitutional and that should be that shouldn't be here at all so the police for me have taken side on this issue and shouldn't be seen so far whatever the court say at the end of it the court say that the impeachment process should go on the impeachment process should go on I know that has been fighting through his council about the government to stop that don't forget also that this same problem had the same issue with his former deputy governor Abola doing his first term and at the end of it he was unable to move the deputy governor that regime the last and that was also the best and I think the most important aspect of it is that during those days people are not just asking where is Governor since he came back for his treatment abroad nobody has seen him that can be preferred that's serious that's information that so many people may not have known okay at Naira per dollar which is being very generous 30% inflation over 90% Nigerians denied healthy diet that's one of the headlines on the Guardian newspaper that's the Guardian newspaper we are looking at right now but just following that story because they have said 1000 Naira per dollar which you even mentioned that it's about 130 Naira per dollar now federal government pegs FX rate at 700 Naira per dollar as overhead cost spike 26 trillion Naira 2024 budget FX rate by the federal government at 700 Naira per dollar I'm not an economist I'm just trying to understand when you say it is a free market now and all the restrictions on the dollar has been removed let the market forces see what it can do and the federal government is still pegging the FX rate at a particular rate help me understand what it means I'm not also an economist is this is this still a free market yeah go ahead the fact remains that the federal government says it has collapsed these windows into one window and that is why there shouldn't be anything in the parallel market or the Bisham window so there is one better there is a window that is for is it the here and here I forgotten the iron in the window yes iron in that for certain individuals manufacturers and rest of them who want to buy the last for transportation that they should have the opportunity to assess them and that is why you can see that is it last week or so the federal government lifted a ban on 43 items that were that were banned and they said that individuals trying to import such goods can go through that window they were not able to assess them I think that's also equalised but the most important thing for me is that whether I and you mean whether it is a Bishaparaya address the fact is that nobody can assess the dollar in that but it's nothing less than 1,030 and that is what it is then you just go back and just within this just within three months that this how much was the dollar on the 29th of May 2023 when this correct government came into play into place that's the question we asked ourselves it was just within around 799 or so and now it is over 1,000 when we said that it's going to hit some people say oh that's the fact is that if you are not anymore you are not exportable then there is a problem with it you cannot be able to buy it the IMF and the others so-called international world bank and the rest of them have been equalising the government to devalue the Naira the Naira has been devalued unofficially and that is the situation that is why you are having that big problem but if you are not anymore if you are not exporting if you are not doing as much as we can be able to end if we are just to remain an import driven country then the pressure on the Naira and it's affecting manufacture of the useful the government said a few weeks ago that they are shutting down they are laying off staff and that is a problem for them so the government through its economic system should be able to look at areas where we can be able to so that we don't see a Naira by December this is probably going to about 1,500 now talking to in those who wish to get old the Zimbabwe money how much to adopt that is only in Nigeria how much do you think we can come to about $1,200 what have you found in Naira in November? well it's scary what the future looks like we do hope that we will be given the landmarks and the things to look out for so that we will know that the government is achieving what they are intending but right now Nigerian just knows that we are suffering and we do not know how long it will take for that if we see that they are achieving we would know that whatever has been promised will come to us but we don't know unlike us before we wrap up this is the final question I am asking you Israel Hamas war you talked a little bit about it but what is happening there some people are saying this might lead to a third world war there is on the one hand the Russia Ukraine war and then there is on the other hand Israel Hamas war the Arab nation seem to be mobilizing and then America which is boosting right now to be the strongest nation of all time is supporting Israel and supporting Ukraine as well so the world is divided more or less and I don't know where you see this leading us and we as a country the war is affecting us what more do you think it will affect us yes we have been told that this is an unending war that will continue to return it so don't think that the Israeli okay we lost the audio from Chris Karin den Wandu there I do hope that I do wish that I wish that he could continue and just wrap it up there but we have been talking with Chris Karin den Wandu on the program this morning and Chris is a member of the Chattat Institute of Abitrators in the UK is talking to us here in Lagos we were trying to cover what the headlines were this morning on our national dailies today we were only able to take punch the nation the Guardian and the nation newspaper on the program it was punch the Guardian and the nation yeah I was right on the program this morning well we will take a short break and when we return we will be talking we will be visiting our first hot topic just don't go anywhere stay with us


I have a question for Haroun and a comment for Carlos. So Haroun, you seem to pay a lot of emphasis on the top part of the distribution, on public sector unions pulling wages up, as I understood it. Can you sort of make some more comments of that vis-a-vis the technical change component? So if you took away public sector workers from your data, and you only showed private sector behavior as reflecting technical change and all that, would you think that you have the same pattern, or is it mostly the public sector union part? And that's sort of relevant to try to get a little bit to Kunal's point. And then on Carlos, I don't know whether you can speculate a little bit on the following. So on your data, you have countries in which the minimum wage was raised very aggressively in the period you were looking at Brazil, particularly on others, and countries in which the minimum wage was not raised at all. Mexico was the one in which that didn't happen. But you have the following returns to education, the relative returns in both. So can you sort of, why was it in Mexico where the minimum wage didn't go up that a behavior similar as you've seen in other countries in which you could explain part of the wage compression through a minimum wage going up? It seems like it was a further falling in returns in Mexico in the upper part of the skilled people. So, to which it's. Thanks, Santiago. So the explanation we have, and I'll deal with the difference between the public and the private sector, but this is the way we like to think about the public sector union story is that they've been in bargaining in other work that we've done, they have aggressively pursued bringing the bottom up, right? So in other words, strong, so there's an increase in the floor. So the minimum wage in the public sector has gone up, mimicking the other sector minimum wages and have also sought out, but the public sector has responded because there's a scarce skill effect, right? With large increases for the top end, and the state then is forced to manage the wage bill, which they effectively do by hollowing out the middle.  But if you abstract from that, and your question is, but is it a public sector effect? I think what definitely what's going on, and if you look at the, I won't try and do the panel B graph again, but if you look at it carefully, and I've just double checked that the 80th percentile and above coefficient effect is positive for both public employment and the analytic tasks. And so I think what's going on is both stories. There's this public sector union that's representing the elite and then a skilled biased technical change story that's talking about tasks and rewarding analytical tasks and it's Conal's point about structural change. So you've got this services dominant economy that's driven by financial and business services, telecoms and analytical jobs then get this high premium. So I think it's both effects, but what you're suggesting is a really interesting thing is to rerun the whole thing, taking public sector workers out. And I think that's a great suggestion actually. Carlos. Yes, again from the Brazil-Mexico comparison from the case studies for what I remember, Ferreira shows with this brief approach that both minimum wages and the education premium were important for the reduction on which inequality in the bottom of distribution. The point of Mexico is certainly something that has been not done in this project, but from what we have seen is Mexico has an economic structure that is quite different to the rest of the Latin America in terms of their size of the manufacturing sector, which by some means is almost equal to the total value of the manufacturing sectors of the rest of Latin America. Some of them, I mean this paper of Gordon Hanson of why Mexico is not rich, he makes the points of Mexico producing what China also produces rather than what China consumes. And in that sense, Mexico didn't benefit in terms of the distribution of wages and earnings from this commodity boom. And what happened in terms of your question of what happened in the top of the earnings distribution, some of the hypothesis is also because this last period is confounded with the effects of the global financial crisis is that some of those jobs for high skill actually were destructed and some people have to go into lower, high skilled workers have to go into lower productivity jobs as sort of an adjustment. And the other really has to do with some sort of skills mismatch because some of the literature on education in Mexico shows that even thought there has been a higher years of education with respect to the past in terms of the total amount of education that the workforce has. I mean there is some evidence also that the firms that are coming to Mexico are not finding the specific skills they need. So there is an issue also with the education system in terms of providing the skills that the job market needs. Plus we know there is a lot of important issues in terms of factor misallocation that really doesn't match the higher skill with the higher productivity jobs and really creates that a lot of firms as shown by your work really stay as small and low productivity. But I think that's more or less what happens in the top of the distribution. So Harun a great paper and there's a lot in it too so I need to read it more to wrap my head around it. But two questions you know one in this RIF I'm always confused with the interaction term the contribution of the interaction term and in your several of those it's sort of kind of flattish so it's not very clear to me how that can be interpreted that's always my confusion about the interaction term in RIF. But more substantively you so the wage so there's one wage distribution story which is that the middle is being hollowed out and then you've reclassified occupation by task types and from your description it seems like there are many kinds of many tiers of occupation within a certain task. So domestic workers and teachers etc like all the on-site people you know but if you think of the wage distribution within this task type it's not people at similar wage levels. So I'm not exactly sure how your task type distribution maps out to the wage distribution so nicely. I'm confused by that. Yeah the interaction term could I mean it's I think it gets dominated by the flat endowments effect right which is close to zero and that probably picks up what you see as the interaction effect. It's a little bit like these interaction terms generally if you get a lot of zeros you're going to see a flat right and that's effectively what it's what it's picking up. So you write that the the tasks are distributed across occupations and so effectively you're seeing though the returns to the task right and so what should happen as with any multivariate story is that if there's a dominant analytical component to the task the returns will be to the task right. So it's a slightly different way so all the modeling that's done in this literature does that where the occupation gets replaced with a composite set of tasks if you like. So all it's suggesting is that if your job is thinking this way in the individual cell right where you have the individual if your task is 80 percent analytical right on average you're seeing a higher return I mean that's you know what I'm getting it right. So in essence that's the real innovation I think in the way that you think about task content jobs rather than pure occupations and it should come out in the wash right. So in other words if you see on average that analytical jobs analytical tasks within occupations are seeing a declining return and that's what the results will show. I just have a question for Haram and it's related with my previous experience in a contribution with the Honduras case where the incidence growth curves showing in Honduras at the decline in the bottom part of the distribution. So my explanation in that work was related to the inability of rural workers to move to modern sectors okay and this is basically because of language so ethnicity and probably very bad basic education so they were not able to to make easy mathematical calculations. So now this is what I call workers heterogeneity and I want to listen a little bit what are your thoughts on heterogeneity in the South African context because what I can try to see in your graphs is that probably workers in the middle of the distribution are not able to progress in occupations with rising pace so with increasing prices. At the bottom part of the distribution it seems to be clear that they have to accept what is going on and probably is there a demand driven problem for the middle part so that they cannot shift to other occupations because unemployment is high and they are trapped in their occupation that probably because of demand lost their premium. So I think you are right that there is all sorts of segmentation going on that the middle of the distribution is our sense is that it is a structural change story and it is a demand driven one and workers are heterogeneous and so that gives you the outcome that you see. The bottom end workers tend to be homogenous and so you would expect what you would expect is maybe the Honduras case or a decline in earnings so in other words I would have almost not been surprised if the bottom end also saw negative growth rates and then the top end is where you see all the action because it services the structural change argument but I think what it shows is you have an exogenous shock and to be careful with the paper because we don't have minimum wages on the right-hand side I don't show you any of the minimum wage data but you have had very, very aggressive real wage increases for minimum wage workers and I think that exogenous shock plays itself out in that outcome that you see. Looking at your paper that is Gary, the increase in labour earnings and I thought that perhaps we may need to interrogate it further and add on the story of job creation. The increase in earnings is it because of jobs that are highly paying that are being created or it's a matter of price setting that they existing and then they are paid more and then with Harron as looking at the missing middle what could be the policy implication because you tend to emphasize that it's mainly an issue of payment not so much of endowment but could it be that this middle class do not have the skills required in the job market that perhaps as a policy implication that it could be to do with the endowment as well. I think but I may be wrong that the increase in labour earnings is caused not so much by wage setting institutions as by supply and demand in labour markets. Unemployment rates are fairly low and that workers are being reallocated as employers bid for them but Carlos you're the expert in Latin America, do you agree with that? It was mostly I mean from the evidence in other studies that were done it's mostly because of a higher returns to low-skill workers particularly rural areas or associated to agricultural activities particularly in South America a lot of the effect came to that price effect. Okay but in answer to her question is that that's not because of unions of farm workers or something, it's supply and demand? Yes supply and demand and it will be from this exogenous shock presented as commodity boom. So just over the top of my head three policy options one is to improve the quality of the schooling system specifically a lot of the collapse in the middle of the distribution is because employers don't trust the certification either incomplete or complete in the high school system. I think that's one difference that may be true in the Latin American case that there were massive improvements and I think in the quality of the schooling system. So in the South African case that would be one clear policy option. The second is the entire TVET system is dysfunctional and the TVET system is the bedrock for the middle of the distribution workers. So the TVET system is the system that provides those semi-skilled workers and so even if we wanted to be a hub for like manufacturing in the region we just don't have the semi-skilled workforce to do that and the TVET sector is critical. And then the third is a lot of the middle of the distribution jobs come from innovative, well in the policy sense come from innovative labor friendly if you like industrial policy. South Africa's most, the biggest subsidy spend by industrial policies on the motor industry which is incredibly capital intensive creates very few jobs. You can imagine if that was diverted to plastics, chemicals, other light manufacturing jobs there'd be a big kick for middle of the distribution jobs.


This is Stink Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. Okay, we're back if you didn't figure that out already. This is Stink Tech Hawaii, the State of Clean Energy by the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum. My co-host, Mike Hamlin, Mike Takeabout. Thank you, Jay. Good to be here again. Nicely, nicely done. Okay, two special guests before the break. Donna Moon, a law and electorate, talking about your new app. We're so excited about that. And Marvin... Here you are. Marvin Quinceo, he's going to talk about Hawaii Energy. Say hi. Hello there. Excellent. Good job. Okay, Donna, you begin. What about your new app? What is it? So we actually have a new mobile app. This is the first that we've developed from Hawaiian Electric. And it's really a way to make it more convenient for customers. So what you can actually do on this mobile app is look for outage information within your area. So if you have geolocation turned on your phone, you can see if there is an outage that's nearby. So you can maybe possibly avoid traffic. We can also provide notifications to people who have downloaded this app. So if there's some company information on a traffic advisory or if we need customers to conserve energy, we can actually send that notification out to them. Wow, that's great. That's great. Why are you holding the phone that way? I thought I was going to be able to actually show the mobile app while I was here. Okay. So I actually brought my phone with me. Okay, excellent. So I could show everyone. There it is. Hold it a little higher. Hold it a little higher. Okay. Now I get to see it. That's pretty good. Okay. Now I can download this either on my Apple or my iPhone. Yes. Okay. And I just go to the Play Store or the... The Google Play Store. Google Play Store. And Apple iTunes. Or iTunes. Okay. And what's it called when I go searching for it? So you search for Hawaiian Electric or Hawaiian Electric Mobile. Okay. Either way. All right. Okay. And now when I get this, it's going to look at my coordinates. My GPS coordinates know where I am. It's going to tell me if there are any outages in my area. Right. So you can actually just click nearby outages. Yeah. And there are no known outages near downtown areas. So it actually displays that. Okay. But it allows you to, with a touch of a finger, just go report an outage. Say by chance, if you're at home and you want to report your outage, you can just do it straight from your phone. Just push a button. Just push a button. Because it knows where you are anyway. Well, actually, it doesn't have that information when you actually report it. So you actually do have to call them. You have to tell them. You have to tell them. But you don't have to call or look up the phone number. You can actually just, if you want to still call by phone, you can by hitting by phone. If you actually want to do it online, you don't have to go to our website. You can just use the app and click by web. And it takes you straight to actually report your outage. Hold it up. Hold it up higher. Go ahead. There you go. There it is. There it is. There you go. Okay. Very good. Nice. Very, very professional app. So, you know, your press release, which I did look at this morning. This is hot news. Your press release said you had other things in store that you were going to load up on this app. What are they? Well, yes. Our intent is actually to... If it's secret, you have to tell us in secret. Yes, it's secret. So, we're letting everyone know on think tech first. Breaking news. Breaking news. But actually what we're hoping to do is add more features that are customer service related. So, if you wanted to check your electric though, you could do it from the app. So, that is something we want to actually do later on in the future. And then also add in where our EV chargers are. Well, that's very important. Yes. So, actually, I think it's next week you're having another christening, a blessing for electric charger. Where is it now? It's not too far. It's on EVLA. EVLA. Yeah. We're going to try to cover that. Yes, that would be great. It's in the morning of December. I want to say 6th or something? No. August 30th? August 30th. Oh, next week, right? Next week. Okay. We're going to try to be there and catch that. Great. Because we like electric chargers. We think everyone you put in is a blessing and that's why you should have a blessing. We love them too. Okay. What else about this? I can do this right now, huh? Yes. You can go right now and download the app. And then also if you actually wanted to check any notifications, you can always click notifications and you can see what new hot information we might have from the companies displayed right there. Okay. So, if there's road work that's going to be done or utility work, we'll likely send out a notification to customers. So, I guess the thing that pops into my brain first is if my lights go out. I want to find out what the scope of the outage is. I want to find out how big, how little, what to do, your advice, whatever it is. And I can get that, yeah? Yes. Estimates of when it's going to be turned back on. Yes. Yeah, right. Good. Yeah. And that would give me some comfort, yeah? Oh, there it is with the map. It tells you what's going on. It tells you what area is affected, the number of customers, and the estimated restored time. Excellent. This is very good. It is very good. Okay. I'm going to turn this over to Mike now for some serious cross-examination. How long? Ready, Donna? Should I be scared? How long has it been available now? It actually just got released to the public on Tuesday, this past Tuesday. But previous to that, we actually launched it out a little bit earlier. As a beta test? As a beta test for our employees. So what we wanted to do is we put it out in the stores and we let our employees actually test it and give us feedback so that we can make small refinements before we actually announced it to everybody. And what's the traffic been like so far? So far, I mean, we're getting a lot of positive feedback and we've got downloads. I think for both, I mean, I think we're at like hundreds of downloads at the moment. But hopefully, as people find out more about it, they'll start downloading it. And then the 10,000 people that listen to this program. Right. But it's also a good thing because that means there's not that many outages going on. Right. There you go. Well, after this show, I'm going to download it myself. What was it now again? Hawaiian Electric or Search for Hawaiian Electric Mobile. Okay. All right. Either on iPhone or Android. Great. Do you have any cross-examination? No. I just want to do say, though, that the work that she does and her team does on social media, especially for Hawaiian Electric, is really helpful. Not only sharing the fun stuff when it comes to cooking tips and just good work that they've done, but especially in times of need when there's something that needs to be addressed. It could be a hazardous situation. You know, Hawaiian Electric does a heck of a job. Well, because of her leadership, it was a real nice job over there. In fact, on our way in the door, they were posting stuff. Wow. Talk about breaking news right here. What I get out of it is you have to come back soon, Donna. I do? Yeah. Donna moves Hawaiian Electric. Yes, I do. I do? So I get to become a regular like Marvin? Yeah, like Marvin, yeah. No, it was my first time. Speaking of Marvin, we're going to see a video from Marvin. What do you got today, Marvin? Well, it kind of along the same lines of just rolling out new and exciting stuff. We want to make sure that folks at home continue their efforts to save energy, even on the grander scale when it comes to companies doing so, you know, large-scale commercial entities. But right now we decided, you know, let's have a little more fun. Let's bring some more energy to it. No pun intended. No, no pun intended. I wrote it down. It was intended.  And so this week, folks have been noticing, we have new commercials on air. Our website, we've got a brand new website. We're going to kick that in the next 24 hours. We bought, or this, I don't know if you can see the logo right here. Energy.org. Yes, this is pluggy as I kind of try and do this. We brought pluggy to life. We have full mascot that was going to be visiting the cakey as well as other types of trade shows and stuff and all the good stuff. And since you had asked, let's go take a look at the highlights on this video right here. Okay, here we go. And she's back. Seriously? She was here an hour ago. Make a choice, energy waster! You know, she'll get a rebate if she trades up that old fridge. Pick the MAC salad. That's two weeks old. I know. Let's stop energy waste. Learn more at HawaiiEnergy.com.  Only a thousand times. I can't help it. We're so much better than regular power strips. We can turn off several devices at a time simply by shutting down an item plugged in our smart outlet. No flipping a switch, no wasted energy. If only everyone knew about smart strips. Well, not everyone is as smart as we are. Learn about smart strips and more at HawaiiEnergy.com. That is a great film, very cute. If you want to look at the website, look at HawaiiEnergy.com. Okay, Marvin, what else do you want to tell us about it? Well, I do want to remind folks that if you took a look at that, head over to one of those ad walls. Take a picture, post it to Instagram. Don't forget to tag us at MyHawaiiEnergy, at MyHawaiiEnergy Instagram. And two tickets too. It's not this weekend. This weekend they travel to Massachusetts to play UMass. But the home opener is the next weekend. Let's go bows and have a good time doing it. HawaiiEnergy, don't forget to save energy at home, as well as at work. And just have a great time doing it. Chris Dide said that. Marvin Buencanseo and Donna Moon, thank you so much for joining us. And Mike, I think we're going to take a break now. You ready? Yep. He's ready. Thank you both. Thank you. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. To help you escape the bonds of this world and defy gravity. Since 2001, Diveheart has helped children, adults, and veterans of all abilities go where they have never gone before. Diveheart has helped them transition to their new normal. Search diveheart.org and share our mission with others. And in the process help people of all abilities imagine the possibilities in their lives. Bingo, we're back.  Mike said that. I did. That's Mike Hamnet, my co-host and co-chair of the Hawaii Energy Policy Forum too. And he's going to talk to you later about what happens on the 28th. It's magic on the 28th, magic. Okay, but the second half of the show here, we're talking to Brendan Morioka of Hawaiian Electric. And he is the general manager of electrification of transportation, which is no small feat. We're going to talk to you about that. Absolutely. Are you ready for the conversation? It's a drama. Okay. And then there's Risa Gorbani of the UH Renewable Energy Design Lab. We can talk about science and design and transportation as you all together now. Who wants to go first? Okay. Brendan, it's you. What's going on? Well, I mean, I just joined Hawaiian Electric about six weeks ago to help with their electrification of transportation initiative. And it's really an effort to move away from the use of fossil fuels, more electric vehicles, electric buses. People think about electrification of transportation. They think about EVs. But that's not the only area that we're going to be looking into. We're going to be dealing with electric buses and how we can get some of our both public municipal buses and some of our private services transition to electric buses. How can we work with the DOT on electrifying some of the operations at either the harbors or at the airport? So for me, it's a really exciting time. There's a lot of momentum and a lot of support both in the community for electric vehicles, electrification of transportation, but also politically at our legislature. Many of the stakeholders are looking at the City Council here in Honolulu. Very supportive of electrification of transportation. So for me, it's a very exciting time to be a part of it. It's a new position. New position that Hawaiian Electric created as a part of their transformational efforts to really look at new business opportunities as well as how is the utility supposed to look in the future? The utility of the past is kind of... The core mission is still there, provide electricity, keep the lights on, keep people safe. But it's really an effort to look at how the utility can better serve its customers and looking at other opportunities and other avenues that we can also play in that is not necessarily just what people view as the traditional utility. You know, that's visionary. I think it's part of the vision that was expressed a couple years ago from Hawaiian Electric to move forward in this kind of things and it's really happening. These are good times, aren't they? It all starts from the top. We have a very visionary board that oversees a company, but we have folks like Connie Lau and Alan Oshima and our entire executive team who really bought into this new vision of a brand new utility. That's one of the reasons why I kind of jumped at the opportunity to be a part of the Hawaiian Electric team. Sounds great and you've come at it with all your experience in transportation. No fool around. Hopefully I can help. Hopefully you can help. We'll be watching. I know you will, Jim. We'll be calling you down for more. Okay, so let's get a situation here on Risa. Risa, what are you doing there at the UH Renewable Energy Design Lab as anything to do with Brennan's work? Oh, yeah. Actually, what we are more interested in is integrating more renewables in the grid and green transportation or electric transportation is one of the most important solutions of adding more renewables to the grid and I'm really glad that HIKO is thinking that or I'm pushing toward electric transportation because it's not only vital for our economy in the future to have more electric transportation like Brennan said, not only EVs but different types. Also, it's important to think about it now as we move toward 100% renewable energy. So what does design mean? Is design like HNEI? At HNEI, there are guys who are developing fuel cells and batteries and what have you. Are you doing that or are you doing something more in the context of design? Yeah, we are mostly interested in solutions or innovative solutions. Like what? Like, for example, how do you use AI, artificial intelligence to help? AI? Are you an AI person? Yeah, we are. Holy moly, Mike. We've got an AI person here at the table. How do you like that? Sharon, did you know this? No. I'm not saying I'm the expert in AI.  Yes. We have plenty of people working on AI. For example, one of the solutions is, one of the things that you work on, how do you use AI in order to help the decision making, for example, in finding your best spot to charge? Or how do you actually provide services between the customers that they have, renewable energy that they want to sell, and customers that want to charge their vehicle, right? How do you understand the driving portfolio and driving cycles and how they are related to charging profiles and how those charging profiles are related to, for example, the saturation of the lines in electric grid and so on. And how the reliability, for example, is interested, is related to all of these big decisions that we are making. And in future, we will have more autonomous driving cars in the streets like in future, I mean 30 years, even in maybe 10 years. You say 30 years? Maybe 10 years. I thought you said 20 years. I said 30 years. You said 10 years? 30 years. Five? 30 years.  But in Hawaii, I would say, so all of these questions are important to be actually looked at now, and then you will recommend to the people who are developing technologies to work on the technologies that make more money for them. So let's assume you come up with a solution, a design solution for one kind, including technological or social or organizational, whatever it might be, to improve electrification or transportation. What does the UH Renewable Energy Design Lab do with that solution? Who do you call? Do you call Brennan? Of course. We had examples. I don't have my phone number for now. If they pick up their phone, we'll be more than happy to discuss with them. Yeah, I mean, my group and other groups, we already met many times with HECO. We are also discussing technology right now with HECO. What HECO's priority sometimes is different than my priority. So basically, what we are doing at university is creating a new technology. Maybe the first customer is not HECO, it's somebody else, and HECO can adapt it in 10 years, right? So sometimes HECO plays an important role in letting us to run it. I mean, from university, a pilot plan.  How long has the design lab been in existence? Nine years. And how long have you been with it? Nine years. Okay, there's a symbolic connection here. Yes. Okay. One thing that strikes me is that the electrification of transportation, not only cars, but everything, is going to have a profound effect in our lives. And I know you guys think about that, but when I think about that, it hurts my head, because I have no idea how it's going to affect my life. I just know it's going to affect my life. You can't comment. Well, I mean, I said I joined HECO about six weeks ago, and it's profoundly impacted my life. My head spins almost every day just because... I knew we had something in common. I mean, the more I learn about this, and I'm an engineer by trade, but I've never been on the utility side, and I'm actually a civil engineer, not an electrical engineer. Learning the utility side and the power side has been very interesting to me, and so I leave every day with my head spinning, because there's so much for me to learn right now. But it is so exciting. I mean, we talk... We just talk about new technologies, and we have a lot of very intelligent people working at HECO and dealing with a lot of different technologies, initiatives, proposals that are generated both internal and within HECO, but also externally, where people are continually coming to Hawaiian Electric to make proposals on how they might be able to help the utility really grow as a more modern grid. And so, you know, we just kind of touched upon it a little bit, but ultimately, if we have more electric vehicles out there charging and using those batteries, you know, it's really more like... It can become like a virtual power plant where we're actually communicating with different power sources, and whether it's the heaters at the homes or the batteries in the cars at home or at the workplace, creating a much more smarter grid, communicating within itself so that we can better manage the way that power is flowing back and forth. And I think that's the end game for many of the stakeholders. But for me, it's really exciting to see the kind of growth, especially in the last couple of years, of people's interest in buying electric vehicles. I mean, the sales of electric vehicles increased by about 30%, just over the last year itself, whereas car sales in general have kind of remained a little flat over the last couple of years. So, you know, that just kind of shows that there is a growing interest in electric vehicles, whether it's for, you know, the green sustainability side of people's interest, or there is an actual cost savings, too, right? You end up your overall energy portfolio as an individual resident actually is supposed to be coming down. You may pay a little bit more in your electric bill, but your overall expense for energy as a whole, whether it's fuel consumption or whatever, or maintenance of your cars, all of that is meant to save the customer money. And at the end of the day, that's what the utility is in the business for, is to help customers. And so, Mike, we have to see where things are going, too. Absolutely. Friends, because they kind of got blindsided by the rooftop solar. And the same thing could happen with electric vehicles without sort of looking ahead and anticipating what the market is going to do with that and then what kind of other benefits like storage that the electric vehicles might provide. And so you actually raise a very good point in that the PUC actually is asking Juan Electric to provide an electrification of transportation strategy and roadmap by the end of the first quarter next year. So in March, we're going to be providing some kind of roadmap that Juan Electric believes is in the best interest of all of our utilities territories. But in order to accomplish that strategy, Juan Electric is being asked to develop the strategy, but really it's a strategy for the state. And there are many, many other stakeholders who have interests or who have responsibilities if we're to achieve some of those goals. So by developing our plan, we will be including a lot of our stakeholders from the very beginning of the development so that we're going in, building a direction, building a strategy that everybody's going to buy in at the end of the day when we submit it. So it's not just a Hawaiian Electric strategy. It's really a state strategy. No, but we really appreciate the fact that you're out there doing it at the front end. That's the fun part. Yeah, it's great. And I mean, it's leadership. But I wanted to ask you, Mike, as a guy who sort of sees this from the university point of view just by way of career, where do you see the connections here? One of the questions that's going to be posed in the Energy Day conference, just on the 28th, coming up soon of August, is who should take the four? Who should be out in the front? And on this issue, on transportation, the electrification of transportation, cars and everything else, we should have a sense of that. And I wonder, from the university point of view, from the university point of view, who should be calling the shots? Who should be out in the front? Who should be coming up with stuff? I sense as if the fact don't matter, it is Hawaiian Electric. But what's your thought about that? One of the things, and we're going to talk about this at the Hawaii Clean Energy Day on the 28th, is the trouble with transportation is it's so broken up. I mean, in the electric sector, we've got the 800-pound gorilla that's controlled by the TUC. We're doing some leadership in direction there. There's somebody to steer the ship. But in the transportation, there are just so many stakeholders and so many actors that it's hard to see where it's going. And I think, and we're going to talk about this on the 28th, it's finding leadership in the various strategies to move the transportation, clean energy mission forward is going to be the trick. And it's not going to be any one actor because we don't have a utility or transportation commission. So the trick is going to be to encourage and support all of the actors in taking the various strategies that we've got available to us. And I think to your point, a lot of the major stakeholders has already bought into that approach because Hawaiian Electric worked with a number of the different entities, created what's called Drive Electric Hawaii. It's a coalition of Hawaiian Electric and KIUC. So it's your utility statewide. But also the State Department of Transportation, DBET, you also have Ulupona and Blue Planet Foundation who are part of this coalition. And it is meant to see what we can do as policy makers, as influencers on trying to drive EV adoption here in Hawaii. And the thing is, is that electric vehicles are one of the few avenues for getting clean energy into transportation because biofuels hasn't gone anywhere. And, you know, bike shares are going to help and car shares are going to help and pedestrian improvements are going to help. But still, it's the automobiles that are the problem and the trucks and the buses. Even though B-key is extremely successful. Yes. Have you B-keyed? No, I haven't. It's on my list. Well, it's a confluence. You know, we started out with looking at energy in general and trying to go renewables. And there was this sort of elephant in the room. It's transportation. You know, as I recall, it was six billion dollars a year sending out for oil for our cars. And we weren't really attending to that. And nobody was coming up with big solutions for that. But so, I compliment Hawaii, Hawaiian Electric for, you know, coming up with this and coming up with you and moving in this direction, coming up with ideas. And so, at the end of the day, it's a matter of socializing those ideas in my oldest takeover and getting, you know, consensus over it. But, you know, even in the consensus, somebody has to speak first. You know what I mean? We're trying. So, where do you fit? Where do you fit in all this? I mean, for example, we had a project from, you know, from the U.S. transportation from the University of Central Florida. We were looking at different technologies of electric transportation. For example, and also different problems. For example, how this charging and this charging of the battery is to provide service to the grid impact the lifetime of your battery of your electric car. We looked at how this high penetration of electric vehicle can impact the grid and how the grid stability issues impact your decision-making of charging profiles. There was sort of a whole thing about technology in general, about energy and technology. You're always worried that if you don't wrap around the latest transportation, I mean, latest technology, you know, you can't keep up and you get left behind because you're not wrapping around the last thing that happened. And sometimes you just can't do that. But with you on, in the consensus model, with you and the team play as a stakeholder, you can help us keep track of the advancing technology. And that way, only that way, we're going to learn how to do this in the most efficient manner. I mean, to the cutting edge technology, you're interested in to see what technologies might show up in five years, for example, or what technologies make sense, or what solutions make sense, and what we will expect in the next five or 10 years. I mean, you plan for it, or when the network or coalition are working on it, so they expect, okay, these are the technologies, so we plan based on this, expect the technologies. With everything, we'll be connected. Everything, I mean, the data will be available. And so, what I see U.H. role or College of Engineering and H&EI, for example, H&EI is a little bit different as they're doing big projects or in big implementations. What I see U.H. College of Engineering role is mostly innovation or fundamental research of the problem. Okay, don't stop. Okay, so...  So, Mike, you know, just so everybody's clear, what exactly is happening in August 28th and how does it relate to this conversation today? It's the 9th Annual Clean Energy Day for the Energy Policy Forum and it's going to focus specifically on transportation. And it's a... Pathways to Clean Transportation. There's going to be panels in the morning and the afternoon and then there's going to be a facilitated session in the afternoon and there are going to be people displaying products there, including Tesla and Hart and I think the bike share folks. So it's going to be a good program and it's at the Lana Keeley Y starts at 9 and runs until 6 p.m. with sort of a palhanna at the end. But it's going to be a good program. Hope you guys are there. I'll be there. I'll be there too, yeah. All right, thanks very much. Thank you guys. Appreciate it, Brandon. Great to have you here, Mike. Aloha to you next time.