All right, and we're good to go great. Thank you, Dave. This is a convening of the Massachusetts gaming commission We are holding this meeting virtually, so we'll do our roll call. Good morning, Commissioner O'Brien. Good morning. I'm here Good morning, Commissioner Hill. Good morning. I'm here Good morning, Commissioner Skinner. Good morning, Madam Chair and good morning Good morning, Commissioner Mayne. Good morning. All right. We'll get started Today is our public meeting number 502 and we have just a few items, important items to get to and at round 10 we'll be convening a second public meeting for our agenda setting purposes followed by, later today, a third meeting which we'll hear from a few of our sports wagering operators for their quarterly updates we've prepared. So we'll turn now to Cary Teresey. Thank you and Director Ban. Cary Teresey, thank you very, very much for your good work here. Yes, of course. Good morning, Madam Chair and commissioners. So the first item on your agenda today is Better's request to approve its cessation of operations pursued to 205 CMR 258.05. Before I get started, I'll just note that Ashwin Krishnan, Alex Erson, Robert Warren from Better are all here should you have questions about their final report. So for background here on January 25th, Better submitted to the commission a notice of intent to cease operations in Massachusetts on February 16th along with a draft cessation plan as required by 205 CMR 258. On February 8th, the commission approved Better's cessation plan in accordance with 205 CMR 258.03. 205 CMR 258.051 requires that when a sports wagering operator has completed all actions called for in its cessation plan or on the approved cessation date, whichever is earlier, the operator submit a written report to the commission, notifying the commission that it has completed all actions necessary for cessation and requesting that cessation become effective. Better submitted its report pursuant to this section on February 16th. Following receipt of the written report, 205 CMR 258.051 requires the commission or its designate to issue a written decision approving or denying the cessation request. If the commission denies the cessation request, it may request reasonable modifications or impose conditions on the operator necessary for effective cessation. Pursuant to 205 CMR 258.052, the cessation is not effective until the commission issues this written decision approving the operator's cessation request. In your packet, you have Better's final cessation report, which I'll run through. You also have a draft written decision. Regarding the decision, I'll just note that 205 CMR 258 requires a written decision to be issued by the commission, but it doesn't dictate the format of the decision. In preparing a draft, I use this format that's in your packet, but the intent is just to memorialize your vote today. So regarding the report, I'll run through what's included in Better's final cessation report. They sent notice to patrons on February 12th regarding cessation of operations and notifying patrons how they could withdraw their funds from their accounts. Also on February 12th, they published the cessation notice on their social media platforms, the Boston Globes website and in the Globes print edition. And they also created a dedicated FAQ page related to cessation on their website. They have settled all existing wagers as of February 16th. On February 6th, they ceased offering sign-up bonuses in Massachusetts and on February 7th, they released any deposits that might have been locked due to the sign-up bonus terms and conditions and made those available for withdrawal. For any funds that have not been withdrawn from accounts by March 16th, they'll send checks to the patron's last physical address on file and any unclaimed balances will be handled in accordance with the unclaimed property statute. As of February 15th, there were no events available to bet on in Massachusetts with Better. On February 16th, they introduced a geolocation block from Massachusetts so that no wagers could be placed or accepted from within Massachusetts. On February 6th, they added all Massachusetts customers to a no communication list for advertising and marketing campaigns. Regarding the data retention and decommissioning plan, this will begin to be carried out on March 16th after access to patron accounts is closed and they'll work closely with our IT division to ensure that the plan is executed appropriately. Also beginning on March 16th, anyone in Massachusetts who attempts to access login or download the app will receive an ineligible location message. And regarding notification to vendors, vendors were initially notified on January 25th and were updated on February 12th and notified that anyone licensed and doing business solely with Better would be required to surrender their license within 10 days of Better's surrender of its license. Sportsway during IT, finance, and legal divisions have all reviewed Better's final cessation report and are satisfied that they've complied with their cessation plan and completed all actions necessary for cessation. And we would recommend that the commission approve Better's cessation request. But are there any questions on the report or the draft decision? Commissions, questions for Karen. Richard O'Brien. Thank you, Madam Chair. I carry the only comment that I have is I like what you did in terms of just very, you know, procedural posture and the cessation order. But I feel like the waiver that we gave for the 90 days should be in the body and not relegated to put that other than that. I liked the assurances that everyone involved has looked at this in terms of the citizen of the Commonwealth. They feel satisfied with the protections. That was my only comment is because it was, you know, so within the 90, I'd just like to see it more in the body. But other than that, great. Sure. If, you know, if the commission, it turns out that you're prepared to vote today, you could vote just on the condition that that's moved up to the, to that where the footnote is indicated. But that's it. Thanks. Madam Chair. Yes, I'm sorry. I think I might have missed you earlier. My apologies. No, you didn't. Just a clarification for the people of Massachusetts. So if they had a futures bet, what happened with that? They get their money back. They don't need future bets, I don't think, right? Well, if I made you two bet before. No, they didn't, they didn't offer them. I have the same question for the next commissioner. Yeah, that will only apply to win bets. Plan better doesn't offer future. So all of better's bets have been settled. There's nothing remaining as of right now. So I just wanted to be clear about that. And thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, Kerry. Yeah. Okay. So thank you. Am I right that that are just didn't offer future bets? Okay. That's correct. Thank you so much. So that, that actually made your exit plan a little simpler. But Commissioner Hill, important on the with respect to our next one. I was good. I was confused by the company. So my mistake. My apologies for answering. Commissioner Skinner, are you all set? Commissioner Maynard. All set just to say I appreciate better and and their partnership. You know, and that's a really good observation. You know, Mr. Kirschman, we want to first extend our appreciation for your cooperation around this process. I think we all expected when the rag was written, it would be over a longer period of time. And we all sort of stepped up to the plate. And I thank our team for that. On a personal note, when, when better presented, and your application was approved to move forward for the temporary licensure and operating that's true as it's as one can assure, I really appreciated your product. And I thought we were putting our market together and offered some good consumer choice. And for that, I appreciated the innovations that that you folks are pursuing. And while I'm, I mean, personally, again, I'm sorry to see you're leaving our market. I know that you're going into several other markets and I wish you your company success. So thank you for that. But most importantly, at this juncture today, I thank you for your cooperation. And I know our legal department has been appreciative of that too. Commissioner O'Brien, one thing I did want to point out in terms of the the written decision that Attorney Theresa offered, our reg just had a written decision. So in many ways, it could have just been so ordered, right, based on our discussion. So I'm cautious to really do a microscope, although Kerry's decision was so thorough. I have no problem bringing your footnote up into the body. I appreciate that because it is an important part. But I also, if she had offered something that was a one liner, referring back, it would have been okay from my perspective. Yeah, talked about just a marginal endorsement, but that didn't seem, it seemed like what she did was the better way to go. I think so too. And now she has a template. So I appreciate the work that Kerry did here. Anything else? All right.  I'm not putting you on the spot. No, you're not. And I'm just, I am actually. I move that the commission approved better sensation request pursuant to 205 CMR 258.05. And further that staff be authorized to issue the written decision approving betters holding ink DBA betters request to cease operation in the Commonwealth as included in the commissioner's packet and discussed here today. Second. Thank you. Any discussion edits? Okay. Commissioner Brian. Hi. Commissioner Hill. Hi. Mr. Skinner. Hi. Thank you, commissioner. Hi. And I vote yes. Hi, Sarah. Thank you. Good luck to better. Thank you, commissioner. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you, commissioners. And very much appreciate all the hard work of the staff as well and helping us through this process and really appreciate the opportunity to be in Massachusetts. And like we said, hope to reenter at some point in the future. Good luck to you. Thank you. Okay, Carrie. Thank you for that. Now we turn to be Linda. Yes. So the next item is when that's report on the progress of their cessation plan pursuant to 205 CMR 258.04. Just a reminder that because of the timing of their approved cessation date, they're sending us this progress report and then we'll address their final cessation report next week. So I'll just note at the outset that Jennifer Roberts and Jackie Crumb are both here. Should you have any questions on this progress report for background here on January 24 when that submitted to the commission and notice of intent to cease operations in Massachusetts as of February 23rd with a draft cessation plan as required by 205 CMR 258. On February 8th, the commission approved when they win that cessation plan in accordance with 205 CMR 258.03. 205 CMR 258.04. One requires a sportsway during operator intending to cease operations to provide to the commission written reports on its implementation of the cessation plan at least every 10 days after providing its notice of intended cessation. Those reports must state whether the operator is on track to complete cessation by its approved cessation date or they require a delay of that date and whether the operator seeks to amend or deviate from its approved cessation plan. 205 CMR 258.04. Three allows the commission or its design to require reasonable modification or impose conditions on the operator cessation plan following review of such reports. So in your packet, you have win bets report. They have not requested any amendments or deviations from their approved cessation plan. So I'll just run through what's included in their report. On February 12 when that removed all sportsway during markets and stopped accepting deposits, at the same time they sent out notice to patrons regarding cessation of operations and advising patrons how to withdraw funds, how future bets or parlays would be settled, what would happen with their win rewards points, and directing patrons to FAQs. Also on February 12, they posted notice of cessation on their social media accounts and their website and they also posted updated FAQs. On February 13 when that representatives began reaching out to patrons about the settlement of future waiters and parlays that will remain unsettled after the 30 day wind down period has elapsed and they'll contact all such situated patrons by February 22. Reminders were sent to patrons to withdraw their account funds on February 20 and will also be sent on February 26 and March 4. Once all patron accounts are resolved and closed win bet will undertake the steps outlined in their deconditioning and data retention plan. Regarding notification to vendors, they notified all vendors of their anticipated cessation initially on January 29 and they sent additional notice on February 15, notifying vendors and suppliers that those doing business solely with win bet would need to surrender their license within 10 days of win bet surrender of its license. But they also published notice in the Boston Globes online and print editions of their cessation with a run period of February 14 to 18. The sportsway during IT finance and legal divisions have all reviewed the report submitted and we don't recommend the imposition of any modifications or conditions at this time. As I mentioned, we'll receive win bet's final cessation report on Friday and we would bring that to you next week. Regarding the agenda, I'll just note there you'll do see a vote on there. That's just because of the timing of when the agenda needed to be posted and when we were receiving the report. So I had suggested reserving a vote in the event the commission wanted to impose any conditions or request any modifications. And so with that, do you have any questions for me or sportsways or more win bet regarding your report commissioners? Any changes modifications? I see everybody I think saying no, they're all set. Good morning, Jennifer. Nice to see you. So I think we've got the green light on this next phase, right? Carrie? Oh, Commissioner Maynard. I didn't know if Commissioner Hill's question I thought about settling the futures. Okay, I'm sorry. Yes, you raised that. No, I'm sorry. I was waiting for him to jump back in, but I'll go ahead. I just wanted it on the record that they plan on how they plan on settling them. I was reading through it over the last couple of days and I called Carrie. If someone has a bet that pays out past 30 days, how are you treating that wager? Are you giving back the initial bet for them to then go and get it on the same line? Or are you going to pay it out at the brick and mortar? I was just trying to figure out how you were moving forward with that. Good morning, Mr. Commissioner, Madam Chair, members of the commission and staff. This is Jennifer Roberts win bet and wanted to happily report that we have reached out to all patrons. So we have contacted them and we have settled about 75% of the wagers. We're still waiting to hear even though we've made contact, we're still waiting for responses on a majority that have not yet settled. But our settlement offer is at a minimum, the stake is returned, the amount that they've wagered. But we do also take into account a fair market analysis of what the bet could be made if it were offered by a competitor. So we look at the competitors offerings and allow them to settle at a fair market value. Thank you, Jennifer. Of course. Commissioner Hill, any follow-up on that? Are you all set? Yeah. Thank you, Jennifer. Appreciate it very much. Anything else? All right. Then, Carrie, I think we're all set for today. Great. Thank you. Yes, all set. Jennifer, nice to see you. Thank you so much. All right. Then we'll move on to item number three. And there's Dave Sousa and Tom Mills. And we're going to go through the internal report process with us a little bit, just the work that was done by the team. And then the commissioners can provide any edits if there are any to you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, chair. We appreciate the opportunity to present the commission with the near final 2023 annual report. The draft is in today's meeting packet and has been distributed to commissioners for their review. Want to give a shout out, as you just did, to Dave Sousa for being instrumental, working with our vendor to pull this version together, as well as Grace Robinson, who did a lot of work to get this in a great place before her leave. The division heads, their teams and our licensees were helpful in providing the information contained in the report and checking and double checking that work. So we really appreciate that. Once this version is approved, Dave and I will work with our vendor on final touches, including finalizing the table of contents, which you'll see is not finalized in this version, and then making final copy edits. The report will then be printed and shared with key legislative leaders and posted on the commission's website. So we are happy to answer any questions or take any direction from the commission today. And again, thank you to the folks who have pulled this together through this process. Dave, do you want to add anything besides? I think Tom's really covered it all. Again, I would just reemphasize a big thank you to Grace Robinson for all the work that she did to kind of get us to the final stretch. And Tom and I just took it over the five yard line. So thanks to her very much. And we look forward to her return soon. Thank you. Okay, commissioners. Any edits? Any questions? Any applause? Well, applause. Every year, I am amazed. I think Crystal used to say how much she loved doing this. And I would say I was always gobsmacked that she said that. So I don't know if Grace enjoyed it or not, but thank you to her and to you guys for getting this across the line. You know, Commissioner O'Brien, that's a really good point. Dave and I absolutely darkened Crystal's doorstep as well through this process. My only question is, the people that worked on this, were they also on high school yearbook? That's always my question when I'm going through it. Good question. It's done well. I absolutely was. That's really awesome. So just so you know, Grace Robinson, I publicly can say is on maternity leave and will be coming her first day back will be Monday. And and Audrey has accomplished great things, great things moving ahead in a way over four months period that most of us have taken a lifetime to accomplish.  So but Grace did say she's on. She must be ready to come back. She is actually watching the meeting right now. And she said, you should add Dave's name to the inner record, don't you think? So we want to give him credit somewhere for the inner report. And she did say mine is on the staff list, but not his. So always a generous teammate. And given that you took it over that five yard line, we all know what that means in any winning game. So we'll make sure to add your name. Tom, if you can make that edit, that's a great note. Great. Grace, thank you for that. And, and Grace, we appreciate that you're texting and not actually coming into the meeting. Enjoy your time off. Anything else? Just great work. The numbers page is my favorite. I know I think that Crystal may have initiated that she saw that and I just think it's a really good graphic and an important way to digest our work. So thank you. All right. So commissioners, I think that we could just decide by consensus or we could decide by vote. Does anybody want to formalize and adopt motion to move forward? Sure. Sure. Madam chair, I move that the commission approve the 2023 annual report as included in the commissioners packet and discussed here today. Second. Okay. Commissioner Brian. Hi. Commissioner Hill. Hi. Mr. Skinner. Hi. Mr. Maynard. Hi. And I vote yes, five, zero. Excellent work. And thank you. It's important to get it to the legislature. And I know that there's a distribution process, which I imagine Trudy will be helping with too. We want to give a shout out to Trudy as she implements that aspect of the annual report process. So thank you. All right. Commissures, we have another meeting in about a half an hour. I think unless there's a commission update right now or other business, we would conclude this public meeting with a motion. Move to adjourn. Thanks. Commissioner. Second. Thanks. Commissioner O'Brien. Or did you say hi? Oh, hi. Thank you. Commissioner Hill. Hi. Mr. Skinner. Hi. Mr. Maynard. Hi. I vote yes, five, zero. Thanks. And thanks. Excellent work, everyone.


Thank you, Adam, it's great having you working with you all week in the studio. We're here live in Barcelona. The Cube's continuous coverage of Cloud City. It's unbelievable. Dara Grealish is here as the chief technology officer and co-founder of 56K Cloud. I love that name. We're going to talk about that in Alexander Lehrman as the director of new business development innovation at Sunrise UPC. Gents, great to see you. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having us. MWC, you guys made the bet to come here. Aren't you glad you did? Yeah, we had to go through a lot of processes, but it was totally worth it, you know? Yeah, we're going to talk about edge cloud, right? And we're going to talk about developers and how this whole thing's going to build out. But how do you think about the cloud? You know, we were talking to the DR earlier. The cloud, you know, people think about it's a place. Increasingly, people say, no, no, that's actually experience. It's a development environment. The cloud is expanding to the edge. The data center is just another edge node. How do you guys look at the edge cloud? Well, we see the edge cloud as a huge opportunity to monetize on 5G, to bring the understanding and the features that 5G can deliver into the next generation of developer experience. Because once we address developer experience, we're going to be able to address that next generation of user experience. Okay, so let's dig into a little bit about what each of your respective companies does. Tell us about 56K. I love the name. Maybe a lot of people don't understand it, but you know. Yeah, it's kind of a generation thing. So, I worked for a lot of large companies, all the super long email addresses. At the same time, I grew up with 56K Modem, the Dialob Modem as you know it. And the transition from Dialob to broadband was massive. I mean, in terms of user experience on the web, the impact on that technology that did meant that finally you could control the user experience. You had some predictability. And we thought it was a catchy name. People relate to it. I used to work at Tesla automation, so user experience was an important thing. And so, we kind of combine now cloud and the 56K kind of understanding, so experience. And it's all about the addressing that, you know, user experience. It's a game changer from a consumer experience at that time. And that's obviously the metaphor you're using. Alexander, tell us more about Sunrise, UPC, what the relationship is with 56K. Yeah. So, Sunrise UPC obviously is a telecommunications provider. Number two, largest private telecommunications provider in Switzerland. And in terms of partnership with 56K cloud, we've business started the conversation of how we can bring our world together with what 56K cloud is doing. We see a lot of things that we can do to kind of improve the offer from our end to our customers and the wider community as well. Yeah, so this is a good example, right? Because we see, we always talk about the global telco industry, there's a lot of localization, right? There's a lot of public policy that has to be considered. So, let's get into the cloud portion of your name. You think about things like wavelength, which essentially, it's really outposts for 5G. You think about it, right? They're not satellite, it's a platform for development. Tell us about wavelength and 5G, the intersection there, why it's important. Yeah, yeah, so the edge cloud solution from Amazon, as you've heard of, it's not just solving existing use cases or problems, it's actually creating new opportunities by combining the technologies of 5G, network slicing, network exposed functions, and multiple access edge compute. It's actually the platform. So, what we're trying to do is bring that developer experience, that tuning that is dominated in this large ecosystem in the public cloud, stretch it into the network because we need to start to see developers to see the network as an asset. Once they realize that speed, bandwidth, and latency, they're not fighting against this to deliver the best user experience, they can orchestrate this, they can be part of the challenge. And once we can get those developers to see the network as an asset, as a value proposition, then this is the kind of minimum components that will build that next generation, next opportunities. It's like, you had an interview recently with Jeff Carr from AWS, he referred to AWS Wavelands as this is not just solving existing issues, he said this is an opportunity. Combining 5G, 5G is not just 4G plus one, it's a whole stack of capabilities. And once operators realize that, they will stack on public cloud, their telco stack, then they can, that's modernizing 5G, going to 5G standalone. And then once they're on public cloud, dogfooding, you start to take those technologies and you bring them to your subscriber base. But the developers that are in that subscriber base, once you address their needs, they can have the creativity process in building those super apps, like drones, such as user experience, once they address that, then you're going to get that ultimate user experience. So offer review. So as a telco in the local region, you've got, well, so you've got an advantage because you've got your presence at the edge and you're leaning into next gen cloud native container sort of developers, we've always said developers are going to win the edge. And you don't typically, you know, most many telcos anyway, you don't think of them as developer-centric, you guys are different, so I want to, can you talk about how you envision leveraging wavelength and what the role of developers will be in your country? Yeah. I think for us, it's essentially very important to kind of look at new stuff in many ways. You know, my role at the company is to look at innovative things and to kind of think a little bit ahead of what's coming down the line and not necessarily being revenue generating today but maybe something that's like coming sometime down the road. And I think that whole area has so much potential, it just plays into so many fields that are relevant for a telco and it opens a new channel in any ways because we'll be able to not just sell connectivity, business connectivity, mobile, all those products straight to a customer's but we actually take a more sophisticated route by working with a developer community and then I kind of augment the offering that then will hit the customer, right? So we've seen CDNs and over-the-top providers come in, use your network, thank you for building out all that great infrastructure. It sounds like this is different. You're actually facilitating the development of new apps. What's different? What kind of apps are we talking about here that you can monetize? Yeah. I mean, it's from small to large, literally everything. I think what we've learned with the rollout of 5G is that it actually touches all industries. Maybe there's some others that shine a bit more than others but fundamentally it's such a big shift in terms of what we as a telco provide. It's not just this smartphone-centric world any longer. It's much more like building customized solution for particular customer segments and help them in the industry. So one thing, one industry I want to mention particularly because we're from Switzerland, smart farming, agriculture, right? And you can do a lot of good things there if you bring all these technologies together and solve problems that this vertical has had in the past which was literally increased food production and be sustainable. Now you can do that.  So you're talking drones, stream data, and 5G enables that. Exactly. Yeah, I mean that's a whole new world and that is a great monetization opportunity. Who owns the data in that example? Is that a discussion that's going on? Well, who owns the data? The customer owns the data, right? If it's the piece of her data. Great answer. Yeah. How about when you think about 5G features, network slicing, other capabilities? How do you see 56K taking advantage of those and working with the developer community to really exploit them? Yeah, so we've been working four years already working in public cloud, already on AWS. And what we've done is a lot of that cloud-native migrations we've done. We've seen those technologies and what we're trying to do is remap that and how we're doing this is we're going to be launching the 5G developer platform. It's going to be global ecosystem, open source ecosystem. You can go and check it out. It's 5G.dev, literally. And there what we want to do is expose these new features of 5G, not just in telco language. So we're launching this kind of network slice as code so that you have this infrastructure as code in the public cloud domain that resonates with developers. We want to stretch that and like I mentioned earlier, make that network slice as code. So such features in network slicing, dynamic network slicing is enhanced mobile broadband, geofenced ways, speed bandwidth in this way, ultra-reliable low latency. I've seen it in my own eyes. You can single digit milliseconds.  And then there is the massive IoT. So as you see in IoT, but actually bringing narrowband IoT really at scale and not just that you need technical boundaries or contractual boundaries to access that, the developer has same experiences in public cloud. And so we want to monetize this to a global 5G. Single digit latency, right?  I mean, I think people, I think that's why I love the name so much, right? And what happened is people, even the consumer at first was like, oh my gosh. And then what happened is the developer community said, look at all the great data apps we can push in. And now it's just orders of magnitude more that we can do. We saw video in the early days of video, it was like jittery and so it's very exciting times. I think about the data center and how virtualization occurred there. And it was almost like force fitting kind of an old model into a new model where the cloud was setting the definition of that new model and now they're kind of catching up. Telcos are in a similar situation, right? They've got very purpose-built infrastructure. You guys obviously have more forward thinking in regard. But is there a parallel there with the old sort of virtualization days and how you're modernizing the network? What's the state of the network today and where do you see it going? Yeah, I mean, we've always looked at the network as sort of our prime differentiator. And we have to be on top of new things and make sure that it is top notch. That's sort of an undisputable- Right, table stakes. Table stakes, exactly. And so I guess from that point alone, you need to continue to look at how can you improve it? How can you make it more efficient? How can you make it more stable? I mean, friction less is for us a key word in that context. And I think with those new technologies, there's just more that we can do. And now we can actually, and this is the beauty of it that comes with 5G and all these new cloud technologies we can actually make the network our offering again by delivering network-enabled services, which something that comes with 5G that wasn't there before, too. Yeah, those value-added services are key. And it's almost like, I think again, I think about the virtualization days, but now we're bringing cloud-native containerization, Kubernetes, Docker to this new world and you're doing it on a cloud platform. That's what's different about the data centers. The data centers we're trying to do it on general-purpose platforms that were kind of being refactored and forced into it, but the cloud has shown us the way and it's different, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. Well, what it has shown to us is that we no longer have to sell the top down or anything. What we're doing is we have to sell developer-to-developer. There is multiple avenues, not just SIM cards, subscribers or large enterprises wanting a thousand SIM cards, it's past that. Now, it's developers building those augmented kind of user experiences on the app, on drones, a convention to like tractors and stuff, and Acutech. In the end, these developers need to become aware that the network can be orchestrated by them and that we can describe this network as code. In a familiar way, the way they've developed those applications, we need to extend that developer experience of those applications and not just be talking about slow speed here or fast speed. I mean, we want to enable some really serious, interesting use cases. Use the term network as code, infrastructure as code, it's been a game changer in the technology industry. But much of the infrastructure is not programmable and so what you're envisioning is a world where, whether it's Edge, whether it's data center or cloud, it's the same, right, it's the same experience. The developer experience is the same, the programmability spans, that's the layer that spans all those physical locations. That's the game changer. Exactly, yeah. That's why we have to break down those technical boundaries inside the telecom industry, make this familiar to developers and expose them, so that's why we're working with all the major ISVs, the vendors, like you've seen here today in Cloud City. I mean, what we're doing is we're making those network exposed functions, if you call it that way, in a way that the developers can relate to and why that's really important is because then they have that same experience on the mobile app world, but at the same time we've been here at Cloud City, what we realize is actually the vendors are also interested in that too, because they want to talk across from each other and build and be more rapid and actually, in the end, build more competitive, be more competitive in terms of the network implementation, because right now, there isn't yet, let's say the value proposition of why do I need a 5G phone? Why do I need a 5G phone? 4G is just good enough, ones that have three out of four bars. We need to get that 4G to 5G transition and the developers is going to drive that. Well, when customers see the applications, it's going to shine a light. We've got the mobile network operators, we've got the whole 5G network slicing capability, we've got this edge cloud coming together real quick. You've got to be excited, Alexander. That is an absolutely exciting point in our development, in our evolution as an industry. And it's a huge opportunity, because, again, as I said earlier, it is game changing. It's not just an evolution, but it's really an extra step forward to do the things differently. Guys, great having you. We've got to go. We're going to take it back to Adam Burns in the studio. Thanks for watching.


very effectively year-round in providing information to us as well as informing congressional representatives of our project as well as key committee staff and its importance. Capital Edge has extensive knowledge through this history of our project's needs and the constituents involved as well as established relationships with congressional representatives and key committee staff and this uniquely qualifies them to continue their work with us. As we near the the project's completion of the planning phase it's going to become increasingly important excuse me to continue advocacy work at the federal level with capital edge advocacy at our side and we are requesting authorization of an amendment to agreement to support this that would extend the services by capital edge through June 30th 2020 to align board direction with the previously signed independent contractor agreement from June 15th of 2015. It is therefore recommended the board approve the attached amendment to agreement with capital edge advocacy for an advocacy services for the Pahar River flood risk reduction project through June 30th 2020 at the current rate of $65,000 per fiscal year and authorized district engineer to sign the amendment to the agreement on behalf of the district. Thank you Mr. Strudley. Questions on an item we've basically already adopted? Is there anybody from the community that'd like to address us on this item? I'll bring it back to the board for action. I move approval of the recommended action. And I'll second. Motion from Leopold, a second from Bilicich. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? It passes unanimously and move on to the final item of zone seven which is the board of directors of zone seven to adopt a resolution confirming the 2018-19 benefit assessment rates. Adopt resolution setting the public hearing and take related actions as recommended by the district engineer Mr. Strudley. Thank you chair friend members of the board pursuant to the 1991 zone seven flood control and water conservation district engineers report the district must annually compute benefit assessment rates. Additionally the district engineer must submit a report describing each parcel of real property receiving the special benefit and the amount of the charge for each parcel for the upcoming fiscal year to the zone seven board of directors. The 2018-2019 rates for all land use categories will be increased by 2.9 percent as calculated in the 2017 annual consumer price index. The 1991 district engineers report previously approved by your board allows for an annual CPI adjustment of the benefit assessment up to a maximum 4%. The rate for a single family residence shall be increased from 77 dollars and 96 cents to 80 dollars and 22 cents. Agricultural unimproved commercial industrial parcels churches and schools are charged by acreage and their rates are increased by the 2.9 percent CPI. As part of the annual proceedings the board must set a public hearing notice the hearing and consider objections and protests if any to the data included in the benefit assessment rate report. Once today's actions have been approved by the board the district will place the benefit assessment rate report on file with the clerk of the board. This report containing the assessor's partial number use code and owner's name and the amount of the assessment will be available on or before May 11th 2018 which will allow for public review six weeks prior to the proposed June 18th 2018 public hearing. As in previous years the rate report must be approved by your board and forwarded to the auditor controller by August 10th 2018 in order to be included on the 2018-2019 property tax assessment roll. It is therefore recommended that the board adopt the attached resolution confirming the previously established zone 7 benefit assessment rates by the CPI for fiscal year 2018-2019. Adopt the attached resolution setting Tuesday June 18th 2018 at 7 p.m. or thereafter in the Watsonville city council chambers is the date and time for public hearing on the 2018-2019 benefit assessment rate report and direct the clerk of the board to publish the attached notice of public hearing once a week for two weeks prior to the hearing in a newspaper of general circulation. But other than that sorry no recommended actions. Are there any questions from the board on the side of director Bilcich? Just a quick question I know that we can charge up to four percent we're doing this CPI 2.9 is what what is the funding used for I mean you know people inquire all the time just because it's a small increase but again you know it keeps going up every year because we need to do that but what do we use the funding for? The main purposes of our funding in zone 7 as articulated in our formation documents is to provide maintenance operations of the existing flood control facility as well as providing funding for the reconstruction project the local match responsibility for the levy reconstruction project. Do we have a how much have we acquired in that fund for the match? So at this point in time the the match requirement that's requested by the core varies depending on what their needs are we're required to keep in pace with their level of effort on the fleet reconstruction project and that's what we continue to do. We are carrying a balance forward that will help meet that obligation as well as the obligations that are required of us to maintain the the existing facility. So do you think that by increasing this we're going to have enough for the match? So increasing making the recommendation to increase our benefit assessment rates by CPI is just going to allow us to keep pace with market forces that that affect our ability to contract affect our drainage crews to do the work that they do in maintaining the facilities. So we will need to come up with additional funding eventually here. Yes yes. All right thank you. And yeah I do too. Okay benefit assessment that comes down to the people paying the fee expect some kind of benefit. We're talking about a lot of projects going on right now if if the projects don't go through then there's no benefit is that am I correct? So there are ongoing benefits realized through the constant work of our drainage crews to maintain the facilities to ensure that adequate flows can pass down through the Pajaro River in the existing federal facility and to address concerns from members of the public on drainage ways in zone seven that they're responsible for maintaining. It also allows us to do the work here back in the office to support the ongoing needs for a levy reconstruction project and to get that project moved out of the feasibility phase and into designing construction. Okay and my last chance to commend all of all of the work that you are and your staff are doing and my concern over we've got a good team and if we keep changing the team we could go the way of the 49ers. So I don't want to I want to I don't want to see that happen. I want people to all work together keep this team going and I want to support all of you and the work you're doing. I'm very concerned about that right now. Thank you. Supervisor Caput if I may. When Bruce Leclerc left we knew there'd be a huge vacuum and huge shoes to fill and keeping this project moving forward and when John Presley and I were looking for his replacement that's exactly what we had in mind we did find that in Mark Strudley the flood control manager have here today and he's done an exemplary job of getting up to speed and getting to DC and talking to those that need to be spoken to. I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that this project will not skip a beat due to the fault of the county or the city of Watsonville moving forward and he is very capable. Great thank you. Thank you. Is there a motion? I'll make a motion. Second. All right. So there's a motion for the recommended actions from Director Bilsej, seconded by Director Caput. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? It passes unanimously. Thank you all. That's the zone seven. The Board of Supervisors still has two additional items before we go into closed session so we will end zone seven. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And the next item on the regular agenda for the Board of Supervisors is item 47 which is to consider ordinances amending Santa Cruz County code sections 3.12040 and 2.16030 to exempt the personnel director and county budget manager positions from civil service status and incorporate an advisory panel process for recruitment purposes and take related actions as outlined in the memorandum of the interim personnel director, Ms. Patel. You have a presentation for us? Brief. Yes. Good afternoon, Chair Friend and members of the Board. We have three items for your consideration today, two of which are related to the personnel director position. In January, the Civil Service Commission approved a staff recommendation to remove the personal director position from the civil service system in order to maintain parity amongst the key leadership positions in our organization. A four fifth vote is required by your board to approve this action and if your board approves the commission's actions corresponding changes are required to amend the recruitment and examination process for this position to an advisory process which is more consistent with the civil service status. And the last item for your consideration this morning is to extend the non-civil service exemption to the county budget manager position. This position was previously exempt under its old title of Deputy County Administrative Officer. That concludes my comments and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. As I know this action requires a four fifth majority vote of the board to pass. Are there any questions of the board before we open it up to the community? We'll open it up for the community. Does anybody like to address us on this item? Good afternoon. Thank you. Good afternoon, Becky Steinbruner. As I read through this what struck me is that it reduces really the importance and engagement of the civil service commission in this process and changes them to an advisory board rather than the more active position that they have had as I understand it. So I think that's not necessarily a good thing. I attend as many commission meetings in various areas as I can and what they are always told is they really have no power because they are only an advisory body and that really sort of takes the wind out of their sails. I've seen it over and over again. So I just want to make that comment and advise you to keep this commission actively involved in the selection of these positions. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anybody else who'd like to direct a comment on this item? Seeing none, we'll bring back to the board. I think this is a really good action. I appreciate your efforts. I'll move approval. I'll second and I think this is keeping in what we've been doing over the last couple of months around the the direct reports of our department directors and others. So I support this action. Motion from Coonerty. Second from Leopold. All those in favor? Opposed? It passes unanimously. The final item on the regular agenda is 47.1 which is to consider appointment of Dustin Veriker to the Workforce Development Board as a local business representative for a term to expire June 30th of 2022. Are there any questions from board members? I will move approval. Second. We have a motion from Leopold and a second from Coonerty. Is there anybody from the community that'd like to address us on this appointment? Seeing none. All those in favor? Opposed? It passes unanimously. The board will go into closed session. Is there anything reportable out of closed session? No. All right then we are. The regular meeting is adjourned and we'll go into closed session. Thank you to Community TV and the Sentinel for covering today.


So today's video is gonna be a conglomeration of all kinds of things. I need to do some food prepping Obviously, you're gonna get some cleaning motivation And I have a few like little projects here and there that really need to be done around the house things that I don't do like in My normal weekly clean like cleaning out my coffee maker and stuff like that That I don't need to do every once in a while So I've got a few things like that and then we're also going to make some DIY Go-gurt sticks and ice pops and Yogurt cups the girls are really excited about those I've been talking about making these for like about a week or two now And I finally have everything I need to make them So I think it's gonna be a really fun little project the girls are down for their naps right now It is the middle of the afternoon, so I don't know if I will get everything done today I may end up filming this between today and tomorrow and I don't think I have a lot more to say So let's get to work So I started out in the living room just kind of picking up the house This is something I like to do whenever the girls take their naps if I get a minute Just kind of writing up the house so that it is nice and clean when they wake up from their naps and into the evening If you're ever looking for the recipes I use to make my cleaners you can check out my oil Instagram page I do most of my DIYs on there. I know this says dish rent aid It's actually what I put in my rinse aid compartment in my dishwasher and sometimes they even dump a little bit in the bottom of the dishwasher But all it is is white vinegar. I just repurposed a container from something else Just to make it convenient and like hands held size to you put into my dishwasher So I'm gonna put I don't know maybe like about an inch or so of white vinegar and then maybe I don't know less than half of it the rest of the way with water and then run a couple cycles with my K cup out of here obviously just empty and then just running it to get it descaled and cleaned out while I'm doing that I'm also going to Refill my K cups. I think I've shown these to you guys before but they're so convenient and I can get so Many K cups out of one bag like normal sized bag of coffee. All I do is fill it up to the little line There's like a lip inside here, and then we just reuse them reuse in sometimes. I put them in the dishwasher Sometimes we just wash them at the sink But they're from Amazon I will link them below and they're super inexpensive and totally worth it just because it saves us so much money So I just do this and then I put them all into my canister by my cure egg These off of Amazon they are like kind of hard to see I guess maybe because they're clear, but they're basically like a long skinny Ziploc bag and You put either ice pop stuff in them or like really whatever you want to put in them And then obviously they're more ideal to freeze So what I'm gonna do is I've actually made some homemade yogurt and I made it in my last meal prep video So you can go back and check that out if you want to and I probably will be making another batch again soon And you could mix fruit into them. It also comes with this little spout thingy.  Well, it's plain yogurt right now I'll put some vanilla some stevia and then food coloring into them to make like Go-gurt sticks that are frozen and then I'm also going to make freeze pops with fruit and blend it up But we'll get to that in a second. So I'm gonna mix this up first In my next meal prep video I'm gonna be making some more yogurt and I'll go into a little more detail on how exactly I make it Step by step. I know that there was a lot of requests for that. So I will definitely be doing that The girls have had so much fun eating these and the fact that they're a bright color Of course makes them really attractive to them and for me I'm just glad to know that they're not eating a lot of sugar since they're sweetened with stevia All right, so next I started in on doing the smoothie pops. That's what I'm calling them and basically I just did some fruit and Some stevia and then I think on some of them I had added a little bit of like almond extract and then I added in some almond milk and Just kind of made a smoothie type consistency Each one was a little bit different because they had different types of fruit in them And that's the other thing I kind of tried to pick out fruit that would make specific colors just to make them fun Okay, so when it came to Loading these up with the smoothies I had to kind of get creative the consistency was a little bit different than the yogurt and they didn't go in quite as easily So I just grabbed a metal straw that I had but you could use literally anything and that helped to get them down Through the other thing too is I had a solid plastic funnel instead of the silicone and I went ahead and use that So since I ran out of yogurt, I decided to go ahead and make jello cups instead of doing yogurt cups I figured I'll do the yogurt cups whenever I make more yogurt, but I wanted to try this out anyways It's a really healthy way to do jello cups So I just put a little bit of food coloring in and then I used some essential oils If you don't have essential oils You could always use just like an extract like a lemon extract or what not from the store And then I put in a little bit of stevia and then I also put in beef gelatin since that has a lot of great health benefits I did lemon orange and grapefruit So I did yellow orange and pink for the cups the girls thought these were so much fun And basically I did about four cups of water for each color Then I went ahead and did a tablespoon of gelatin for each cup So four tablespoons for each batch and then I sweetened it just to taste these cups are from amazon as well But as you can see behind me, I need to kind of do a clean sweep through our room I've got a couple loads of laundry to fold. I kind of I'm hoping it looks like it could rain But I'm hoping that the rain holds off That I could get in the back porch and just kind of clean up back there sweep Wipe the table down and all of that I try to do that about once a week or as needed I also need to go into the dining room and just kind of clean up in there I've been doing a little routine with the girls every single morning and I think soon you can let me know in the comments But I think I might do a morning routine and just talk to you guys about like Everything that I've been doing with them because we started a new routine that's been working really well And I also need to make some DIY hand sanitizer So I'm going to show you how I'm going to do that And we'll see what else gets done today So I don't know if you've noticed but I go through spurts of folding my laundry in different places of my house Like I'll go through a spur of folding it in my laundry room and right now I'm on a kick of folding it on my bed Don't ask me why this day I had a couple loads to do and just knocked them all out at once Side and got to the entire patio kind of cleaned up So whenever it comes to this area I do kind of just let it go throughout the week especially because the girls are in a stage where they love to play with mud and With being home all the time and not able to go anywhere right now I just let them have fun and be kids because Mud is easy to wash up and it's not going to hurt anybody So they take their buckets and they collect mud from a little spot in the yard and bring it in And they pretend that they're cooking and all of those fun things To this I think in my last video But I've just been keeping a tablecloth on this table because We have been doing so many projects and activities at this table with being home And um, it just helps to protect the table and if it really gets bad looking I can throw it away if I need to Like I said, we've been doing a new little Routine in the mornings. And so I keep everything that we use in the mornings over here in this basket It's just really convenient. So we're able to pull everything out and just do it all here And if you guys like I can go into more detail in a video soon about what we're doing But one other thing I wanted to make a comment about is this rug is a rugable rug As you know, we are potty training hazely and she had an accident on one of these chairs And it like created quite a puddle underneath the chair But it did not go into the rug. So if you have pets, I totally recommend these because They really do hold up well to wet stuff getting on them And you can take them and throw them in the washer and they are water like resistant All right, I'm sitting down here at the table to show you guys a little DIY so Technically, I can't call this Hand sanitizer because it's not been approved and all of that stuff though for those technical reasons I'm going to call this a hand cleansing spray So these are the things that you're going to need. I'm going to turn the camera around here in a second I just wanted to explain why I'm calling it that and the this is a really great way to reuse your oil bottles if you're an oil person and Um, it's nice a nice little handy size to keep in your bag or your diaper bag All right, so these are some empty bottles and basically all I did was take them to the sink and pull the labels off And if you have any trouble getting any of the residue off from behind the label Just grab either lemon oil and I actually just tried orange oil And it did a great job at taking the rest of the sticky residue off and then these are some spray Um tops that you can actually get off with amazon And I'm going to trim the bottom part the tube so that it's obviously not quite this long Then one other thing you're going to want to do is remove this little plastic part This is the on guard oil that I'm going to be actually putting in the hand cleanser these I already did that with So I'm just going to pull the top off and as you can see there is nothing inside of there And one of these was actually a tea tree oil and the other one was on guard So I didn't really worry about like cleaning the inside of them because it doesn't matter that those things Are in there and really I think any oil doesn't necessarily matter But that's entirely up to you a few things that you'll need besides the bottles and the spray tops is some aloe vera gel And this is actually pure aloe vera So that means that I have to keep it in the refrigerator But I'm not worried at all about putting them in these because you also use alcohol and you want it to be 70 alcohol that is what's recommended to make hand sanitizer between that and the on guard being in it I'm not worried about needing to refrigerate the small amount that's going to be in these bottles They obviously make way bigger batches than this But right now I just wanted to do two of them Just to keep in the car and stuff as we're going in and out of stores The first thing you're going to want to do is put a teaspoon of the alcohol into each bottle I Should have probably put this cloth down before I started Another thing that's helpful is if you have a mini funnel, which I don't so I'm kind of messing around with this Actually, I'll put a half teaspoon of aloe vera gel in each bottle Last you'll want to put about five drops of on guard into each bottle pop them off with filtered water I hope this video inspired and motivated you guys I am working on some other bigger projects to come this next week So I can't wait for you guys to see what i'm doing It's definitely decor related And if you're new here, I'd love it if you subscribed joined my channel I do three motivating videos every single week Um, just kind of whatever i'm up to as a homemaker and a mom Don't forget to give this video a like leave a comment below Let me know how you guys are doing today and I will see you guys in my next video


On November 19th, 1863, President Abraham Lincoln concluded his Gettysburg Address by resolving that a government of the people, for the people, and by the people shall not perish from this earth. 128 years later, the singer Kurt Cobain would use the same rhetorical device in the famous Nirvana song, Lithium.  The repetition of words in Lincoln's Address and Cobain's song are examples of a literary device called epistrophe. Derived from the ancient Greek word meaning turning back upon, epistrophe is the repetition of phrases or words, in a set of clauses, or sentences, or poetic lines. In contrast to the related term anaphora, epistrophe, or epiphora as it's sometimes called, occurs at the end rather than the beginning of those lines or phrases. While this distinction may seem minor, the Greek philosopher Plato builds this end positioning into his theory of the self, which he also calls epistrophe. As you may recall from Plato's famous allegory of the cave, people seeking enlightenment must turn away from the world outside of ourselves. In leaving that false world behind, we turn back to our independent, logical selves to find truth. Epistrophe is thus as much a philosophy as it is a rhetorical or literary device. Artists probably do not have this origin in mind when they use epistrophe, but, and here's where things get strange, the effect of epistrophe in a song or a speech is often surprisingly similar to what Plato had in mind. In Lincoln's speech, for example, the president asks Americans to believe that the terrible losses of the American Civil War will give way to a renewed democratic union of the people, for the people, by the people. In a similar way, in Cobain's song, the speaker remembers the loss of his lover when he sings, I love you, but resolves that he will not give way to despair, I'm not going to crack. Robert Burns's 1795 poem, A Man's A Man for All That, offers one final example of epistrophe that matches this earlier model. In the poem, which is written in Scottish dialect, the poet's repetitive, epistrophic phrases and all that, and for all that, initially emphasize the false world of wealth and power must be turned away from in favor of Enlightenment ideals. This idea is on full display in the third stands of the poem, in which the speaker observes a wealthy aristocrat, what he calls a burky, or a coof, who fancies himself superior to his fellow Scotsman. Burns employs the literary device epistrophe here to enact the turning away from such sentiments. You see young burky called a lord, what struts and stares and all that, though hundreds worship at his word, he's but a coof for all that, for all that and all that, his ribbon star and all that, the man of independent mind, he looks and laughs at all that. As Plato predicts, this turning away from the false and empty values of the outer world lead the speaker to turn inward to discover and enlighten self. In the process, the initial meaning of and all that begins to change, to Burns's vision of a rational, democratic society. Then let us pray that come it may, as come it will for all that, that sense and worth or all the earth shall bear the grie in all that, for all that and all that, it's coming yet for all that, that man to man the world over shall brothers be for all that. Like Lincoln's celebration of the people and Cobain's refusal to crack, Burns's and all that therefore comes to symbolize the value that each speaker invests in themselves and their communities. Their shared use of epistrophe reinforces this idea, blending rhetorical weight to each speaker's vision of a future world beyond their troubled present. So what should you do as a reader when you encounter the literary device epistrophe as you listen to your favorite song or read a new poem? While epistrophe will not always match the ideas that are discussed in this video, it's important to think about what is being emphasized through epistrophic repetition, what contrasts a repeated phrase establishes in the poem or song, and what themes or ideas are being celebrated. Doing so will enable you not only to identify this important literary device, but also to interpret its meaning in the literature and music you love.


Good morning, everyone. I hope I'm audible. Super. So the idea is very simple.  Let's have a conversation between four friends. Right? So that's what we'll try and do. And when four friends are talking, feel free to interrupt. Right? So that's our love to start. I think also I'll say that it should not be built. We have just started building, so it should be built. We are in the process of building, so. I think we have got 0.01 percent done, so to say. And the whole ecosystem is growing so fast. Right? So I'll try and divide the conversation into culture And commerce. Right? Two important fundamentals. Culture is built by organizations which have people first. Commerce is built by, you know, organizations who have Business first. So what is the right intersection of it To create the right communities is what we're trying to Well-being to. To begin with, maybe starting Himanshu and we'll try and go in this order. Maybe a quick round of introduction. And you could also speak about, you know, your favorite Experience of building a community. Or, you know, one of your best learnings as a marketer. So, hey, hi. I'm Himanshu, co-founder for Social Punga. I was the first mafia at Punga. Thanks a lot for inviting me. Thanks a lot for hosting this out. So culture, I believe culture is not having a bean bag in your office. Right? A lot of time people have seen bean bags as a culture piece. Right? Culture is built by what kind of work that you're doing. Right? The merit of the work also defines a culture to a larger extent. Right? So all the organizations, all the companies, global setups, right? It's defined by the products they have built. If you look at Meta, if you look at Google, right? Or if you look at services company with respect to the value That delivered to the client, right? And if all of us as an organization is aligned to that one goal, right? Is what defines a culture to a nutshell. It could be anything. It could be service excellence. It could be customer-first approach, whatever it is.  It defines that one goal. And everybody in the organization think about that goal. And then you define your mission, vision, and other pieces to it, right? And when everybody is aligned to that one goal, it kind of moves in the community space, right? So if you look at it non-professionally, I'm a cyclist, right? I have a single goalpost to do a 100 kilometer on a Sunday. So everybody has that one goal in that group in a community, right? So professionally you have one goalpost. Personally you have one goalpost. That defines a starting point for a community to say. Very interesting. Maybe if you could also touch upon one of the... I think Manipal Hospitals is one of your star campaigns of the year, or any other campaign which you would have done, which is community-first in nature, and maybe some learnings out of it. So it's just not about campaign, right? So take an example of Mama Earth. So we have been working with this brand for a while now. The starting point of that brand, I think everybody is aware of Gazel and Wanon, right? Gazel became mom and then post that the brand was built. They leverage community to a larger extent, right? That community becomes a starting point for her to experiment, to do a pivot on the product, and then see people have a response to it, right? Again, what is happening these days is people start thinking, hey, how are we going to monetize the community? Correct? And that's the first step that you should not take. That's in a don't space, not in do space. What are you adding to the community as a starting piece? And then you start doing a brand integration. Interesting perspective. How about you, Vikas? Yeah, I think audible, right? Everyone at the back? No? Not audible? Yeah. Can we just hold it closer to the... Yeah, I think picking off from what he once said, I think it's really about creating value, right? And people need to feel connected. Who are you trying to build a community with need to feel connected, right? And that's really at the heart of building those communities. And that means the brand that's creating it, or who is creating that needs to add value, needs to be able to be authentic and allow others in the community to be authentic for them to really take out the value, right? And that's what we've seen with many of the brands that we worked with. One of the examples would be Dhan, which is a trading app, right? And what we tried to do there is actually build a community of day traders, build a community of folks that live a life being a trader. So right from building Anthem and a song that they can relate to, to actually having, you know, communities on closed-door channels like Telegram are also public channels, right? And I think being able to connect those dots to people who feel they're sitting in a room and working from nine to three, looking at a screen, and they feel neglected, right? And that's the insight that we tapped onto and looked at how do we build that community. So it's really about connecting those dots. And like Himachal said, it's not about selling anything at all. That community is to exchange ideas, insights, learnings, and really connect with folks that know what you're going through, and that's what makes that community really work. Yeah, I agree. Art of selling is, you know, genuine value addition, right? If you can genuinely value add, right, people will buy, right? How about you, Suman? I mean, I sincerely believe that building communities, you know, as a first-time entrepreneur, we started with a product and for, and Buffalo Soldiers happened by accident. All of us needed to realize that are we entrepreneurs and not, right, and we bootstrapped it all along. So for me, building communities starts right at home. Himachal was talking about culture, and I so agree with him because I think when we started off, we all call ourselves start-up. And I feel that because we are independent and we are able to say this, that if we call ourselves start-up, we need to start behaving like start-ups. I think one of the things that we enabled, one of the things that we enabled at Buffalo Soldiers is that we give equity to each and every member. So that for me is something that is non-negotiable. So I feel that another thing we have always talked about, right, is that everyone comes and a lot of people have experienced this, all of us, people think it's a fun place, right? The journey doesn't end there, right? It's a fun place to work. So what happens is that building that culture talk I feel is really easy. For the first two years or three years, we practically grew from, and I've said this enough, from five and a half people, there was one intern who was double timing in one room in my house, two just hundred people now. So we feel that while we were talking about this culture, we never really saw that culture coming through until about last year and it happens very organically as it kind of permeated through the ranks. And now we see the benefit of that culture happening. So I feel it all starts that while we start building communities, the community should be built at home and then we take it across to clients. Interesting. I, in fact, also loved your name. Can you tell me more about what's the logic and what's the meaning of the name? All my other co-founders were coming. I was driving one day. We had still not quit my job and they were coming up with normal names. Bob Marley, of course. I love the song. So that's how the name came through. I've tried to give many other reasons at different places. I have like one reason every month, but it's Bob Marley's song. Interesting. Let's jump on to another whole new beast. The new beast, which is the most spoken about beast these days, is Gen Z, right? Have you been building Gen Z first communities and what's your experience dealing with them? Any of you could pick it up? Again, first and foremost thing, having an awesome sneaker or having a tattoo, it's not Gen Z. Let me put that on the table. So as somebody who's a millennial, I'm speaking to a lot of Gen Z folks the way people used to speak to me 10 years back to build on that consumer insight, I figured out very, very clearly these two things doesn't define Gen Z. What we have noticed, this is something which I have noticed last 40, 40, 50 years fashion in a way also defined what kind of mindset people is having. In fact, I saw one of your LinkedIn posts when you visited something, right? Why Gen Z likes to wear loose clothes? If you go double click on it, right? It's a sense of freedom.  Size doesn't define me, right? It's a mindset piece, right? And when you kind of truly understand people, right? Fashion is one of the way, if you look at 70s, 80s, 90s, our fashion days of 2030, correct? Is one of the area, right? But nobody defines us and wearing clothes with a specific size is one of the pieces, right? X hundred other things to it, right? I own my own space and that's also driven by what is happening to India from an economical standpoint. Like for my parents, roti kapala makaan was big stuff. For us, we moved to the next level where convenience was one. Uberwala came into pictures, Zomando and all came into pictures. Now that's by default. What's next for them? That hits about me. It's not about our stuff. So I'm not talking about community, but to understand that mindset and start building products on top of it. So I always believe there are two things going to define the next 10, 15 years of a journey. One is Gen Z. Second is luxury, right? Because everybody has a purchasing power to it. So if a product or a community could be built on top of it, we're going to prosper in the next 10, 15 years. Interesting. Let me speak more about this particular post which I had written. So it happened exactly at Geo just right across the doors. I was attending this event called All You Can Street. Right at the entrance of the event, there was a hooding which said, a banner or whatever, which said, if you're not into street culture, it would be a culture shock. And it was a culture shock for me. I'll narrate what exactly happened that day. So I walked into one of the stores. I probably was the only single person in the 55,000 square feet, big conference or even whatever it was happening was wearing a jeans. So already I was feeling out of place. So I walked into one of the stores and I asked, I was seeing some styles and I was like, can I see a medium sized t-shirt in this? And they were like, what? Did you just ask for a size? That's how people buy. No, that's not how Gen Z is by. We buy what we like. It doesn't matter what the size is. So I was literally convinced by stairs to buy two sizes more than what I generally wear. I honestly still not have courage to wear that, but I hope I wear it sometime soon. So yeah, some very, very interesting things happening. And like you rightly mentioned, it's Gen Z do not want to be defined by predefined global norms. I will choose what I want to wear. If it fits my size, great. Or else I'll be comfortable in what I want to wear. So that also is an insight for so many brands. So many brands have been thinking certain set of verticalization of sizes and verticalization of a lot of cultures or protocols which were there. If they start thinking horizontal, they start thinking design first, thought first, then I think magic can happen. Vikas, how about you? Yeah, I think going deeper into what they like, and that's really where our jobs and marketeers begin. And often the way we connect those dots is they have their own preferences of freedom, their own preferences of trying new things. They experiment a lot more. And I think that's really how we pick up the kind of brand messaging that you want to do. So for brands that we work with, often it is about also the kind of content you create because they have a lot more options. They have less patience than many of us have. They get distracted very quickly. And that's really what you want to try and do. So the kind of communication we create for a brand that's targeting that audience would be very, very different. And frankly, building a community for Gen Z is not easy, right? Because they have zillion options. They have enough to keep them distracted. And hence, while we try and do that for some of our brands, it's really about can you still connect with them and can you build that brand love? I think that's still something that we've probably tried to achieve and do. But building a community where they really feel connected, I think that's still probably work in progress in some sense. Interesting. Subhan. I think Gen Z's fashion and contradiction, right? They like vapes a lot too. On a serious note, I mean, I think we have been talking about the millennial world culture, right? And I think I have met with Gen Z's, especially in our office, who are two different kinds, right? The one that you were talking about, who have fleeting sense of they move one from one thing to another. And I have met the other kind, which are very, very, you know, kind of millennial work ethic. So it's very difficult, as you were saying, to bracket what exactly is a Gen Z, right? But when we were working for brands like, say, Fast Track, it's very important that we let some of our very young folks, including somebody who was joined like two months back from NIFT, to lead that conversation because, you know, they kind of understand, they kind of bring those contradictions together beautifully. So I feel that that something that is not defined enough, I think as we move forward, we will understand how the generation of Gen Z kind of settles in. So, I mean, it should be an ongoing process. So I heard two things, because you mentioned about millennial work ethics and distracted. The sense, I personally spoken to a lot of those in organization outside also. I believe they're just different, the way we were different for our parents, right? So when I started back in 2003 on my first company, my father and my mom and dad couldn't even understand what we're doing. So the way my parents couldn't understand us, I think we're not able to understand Gen Z. Suddenly feeling older. Suddenly feeling older, right? I always, I think for old people speaking more Gen Z. Interesting. So let's slightly tangent further. I'll jump to digital campfires.  Let's get to, you know, expand our network. Let me try and meet so many new people, maybe meet a lot of people of my past. But I think a lot of things within the digital ecosystem are maturing enough where the original subconscious strategy was expanding the network. Now the strategy or, you know, the mindset is to narrow it down to relevance, right? Now what I mean by that is digital campfires like a reddit, digital campfires like a telegram group, right? So there are so many of these new age telegram groups, or new age reddit groups, or whatever. There are so many discord groups and what not.  Yeah, I think, yeah, we've done some of it in Quora, some of it in Reddit, and I think what we realize over time is authenticity there is very important, right? You want to be participating both as a brand, as well as maybe consumers that love you and have that connect with you. But if that contradiction or what you're saying doesn't feel real and authentic, I think that, you know, starts breaking apart. I think the other part is consistency, right? Because brands, obviously, say, So you have to find what is it that second or third channel that you really want to go deeper into, and often brands that have succeeded are the ones that have consistently built that with the right kind of content and value, found the right influencers, real consumers to be part of those communities, and that's when that flywheel starts working, right? Because otherwise you do it for a few months and it doesn't work. Building that community is a journey over many, many quarters to make that really come to life. I can think of an example of Maggie. I think they did this globally as well, where they monetized WhatsApp by investing in content. What they did was, and again, disclaimer, we've not done this campaign. I read about it online. What they did was this... Oh, lovely. So, yeah, of course, why don't you speak about it? I think it's an interesting campaign, right? One recipe a day, right? You're talking about the same campaign? Yes. So I'll touch up on the campaign in a bit, but speaking of what you mentioned, right, or the community piece, I think what is happening with multiple platforms, right? You pick a platform like this called, right? Every platform, every generation, field gets my platform, correct? For us, our parents were Facebook, Insta, then Reddit came, Telegram came, right? So I was just chatting with one of my cousins who is in college, right? He is lot more on Snapchat versus on Instagram. So his photo sharing... Texting, like their routine texting is Snapchat. Is Snapchat. It's not on Insta. It's not on WhatsApp also. So what is happening is that the moment they feel that this platform, this called Snapchat, whatever, is for me, is where my friends are, not family, right? Is where they start building on the community piece. Okay, Maggie, do you want to... Yeah, sure. So Maggie, you know, what I saw was every single day, they used to, you know, they curated a whole community of people who are cooking food by themselves.  So a new recipe every single day on your WhatsApp message, right? As simple as that. It may or may not have a Maggie Masala in it. If you're not talking about noodles, of course you're talking about Maggie Masala, right? So that's what they did, right? They genuinely curated the whole community. Last I checked, they had about 200,000 active subscribers to that community who are regularly seeing recipes on that, right? So that's genuine community creating outside of an Instagram, outside of a Facebook, outside of a Twitter to genuinely add value to the lives of audience, yeah. So yeah, that's it. Coming back, you were saying something? No, I was just saying that our entire journey actually didn't begin with Buffalo Soldiers. It began with football because I'm a complete football fanatic. So we were building something called Football. And the whole idea was because football fans, I'm a huge Arsenal supporter and a Barcelona supporter. So football fans on any other of these apps do not have like affinity-based community and we were trying to build that. So what happened was, you know, recently when we were leading, you know, the entire Global Chess League and for the first time chess was being played in a team event and all of that, we realized that a community was being built on YouTube, which was so interesting because we felt that the community would be built on maybe on Instagram because some of the players, we thought it might be built on Twitter because Magnus Carlson is there and Vishwanathan Anand is there. But it started building on YouTube and that's the difference. So it's so fractured right now, right? Some are using, as you were saying, discord. I started using discord like about six months back. There are a lot of communities which are happening on Snapchat, but that Snapchat community right now is so low that, you know, we are not kind of, I think for the last two years, people have been always thinking about experimenting with the Snapchat community, particularly in India, but we haven't done that because I don't see the numbers there. But I think, yeah, it's a very fractured community building that's happening between different age groups right now. The Snapchat just crossed about 100 million users in India. So numbers are crazy on Snapchat and increasing by the day. That's true. That's true. Coming back to numbers, right? We're in a world where everyone wants everything yesterday. Correct? How do you, and again, happy to hear all your opinions, how do you justify long gestation periods in building the community? What are the success matrix which you said as expectations for your clients? When you're building a community, when you know that there's going to be nothing in the next six months, you just put in effort and make content. Right? What are you going to see later? Right? So what are some success matrix you try and convince your clients with or you convince yourself with first more than your clients? Isn't it the same roadmap of building a brand? Exactly. It takes time, right? So Maggie is fine. So I was aware of that community which you're referring to. It also boils down to what level of brand building you are. Right? When your existence is questionable, right? When you're starting a brand, starting a company, when your existence is questionable, you can't go back to a brand and say, let's make a community, right? Let somebody, let somebody try the product, right? First, my product itself has a question mark to it. Versus a legacy brand of ABN Bev, Maggie, Nestle or the world, where the product is already there, right? And then you start making peripherals on top of it. Right? So we also need to understand at what level or journey the brand is. That is point number one. Point number two, like I take an example of Mama Earth, right? Where there was a common interest of a founder, right? She genuinely wants to understand what's happening and organically you start spilling it off, correct? It was not started with the Mama Earth, it was started with Ghazal. And then obviously it finally boils down to the Mama Earth piece. That is second. Third, you ask for a period, right? The moment you start looking at six months or a year as a time frame, after that I'm going to monetize the brand, community. That's where downfall starts happening. You have to be extremely, extremely open, right? Like take an example of Maggie. Sometimes you don't even put a product there, right? It has to be driven by an interest, not by a common brand. Common brand is packaging it, but it's not a driving force to it. So for me personally, I cannot put a time frame to with six months or 12 months. It's a very long-term piece, right? But why is there a builder community around sports? But it's consistently doing it year on year on year on year basis. Nike, I think everybody has seen the movie and read the book, right? The community have been built consistently year on year and being honest to that piece. Whatever the sponsor is, Nike is always there. So third is more from a consistent point of view. Interesting.  But actually it's probably the opposite, right? If you look at many of those small Instagram handles, those smaller brands, those one outlet retail stores, they have powerful communities. They may only be 500,000... Micro-communities. Yeah, 1500 folks, but they know the brand. They know who runs it. They know what quality to expect. They know the service that they can expect. They exchange feedback. I want this. Can you make it, right? And I think that's the myth around who is it relevant to. I think it's relevant to every brand. Can you find consumers that love you, love your brand, your product and start scaling that, right? And figure out what the common thread is. And that common thread could be anything, but you need to figure out what that is. And we didn't touch upon this, but at the heart of it is having an amazing product, right? Because you cannot build communities around something that's subpar. So in many ways, even if it's a small brand, and probably there are folks that work with smaller mid-sized brands, find those consumers who love you and start from there. And you'll eventually find a way to connect those dots and make that happen. I so agree with Vikas. There's nothing more powerful than a micro-community. I mean, we worked with... You were talking about retail, right? We worked with Uran. So a lot of people go to social media and think that what are the kind of followers you want? So the one of the things that we kind of guided them to was the people who have their apps and the order from their apps, the retailers, the Kiranawalas, we ensured that those Kiranawalas are actually following them on social media because, whichever Facebook or its Instagram, at least wherever they are present, can you also follow them on social media because you are using this app as the lifeline of your business, right? So I think micro-communities are the way to go. Yeah, I just want to give an example. I mean, we didn't work on this. I was actually listening to a podcast about Zerodha and how Zerodha actually scaled, right? And actually, Nitin was talking a lot about how they built the community of, again, traders who didn't like all these bigger companies and bigger apps because they didn't have a product that was catering to them, right? And they actually built a complete forum and community on the web, and that's actually how their flywheel started working for them, right? They were very small back then, and this is almost seven, eight years ago, and that community is what fueled every big trader in India to start using them, and then the rest is history, so... Interesting perspective. There's a brand called Snitch, if you heard about it, they're Bangalore-based. They have Sharklang, Siddharth. So they started with building a community around Gen Z and obviously product around the same. Now they opened a first store. Same thing, started with the community and then moved to the taking a point. Another interesting thing, I think, because that's upon which, as marketeers, and I always tell my team as well that, you know, we are marketeers first, then we are advertisers, right? So the fourth piece of marketing, it starts with product, right? Product place, price promotion. We are the fourth P of marketing. If the product gets fixed, then the rest of the P can get fixed, right? We've got the last couple of minutes. We started with culture. We moved towards commerce.  Each one of you could speak about it. I'm sure each one of you have been doing some fantastic work in terms of curating some great culture. So... Yeah, no, absolutely. I think for us from day one, it was really about the team, the culture. We are about 350 team members now. And I would about... 80% of our leadership team has been with us for upwards of five, six years, some even for eight, nine years. And I think the key to that is a mix of the right kind of work. You need to have the right brands, exciting work. I think that's one big part of it, because that's where the learning comes from. That's where they feel excited. They feel they're doing the right thing. That's one big part. The second is being able to have a culture of continuously learning, continuously, you know, it's fine to make mistakes, but continuing to try new things, what Harsh has spoke about, being agile, trying out AI. I mean, and we in fact have a huge task force internally to make sure everyone experiments with AI. And then you figure out where the use cases for each team are, right? But that agility, that ability to keep learning, I think that's the second part. And the third is, you know, the basics around having a great HR team, your incentives, ESOPs, and I think all that plays into play. In fact, I was mentioning to somebody else that we in fact do a performance appraisal every six months, not every year, right? So there's an opportunity for top performers to actually get, move up the value chain in terms of increments and promotions twice a year, right? And today, folks are restless and we try and cater to that to some extent. It needs more work, it needs more effort, but that's how we build it up. I think we have spoken enough, the time is up also out there. I'll just say one single line. If a first-term manager is treating his mentees or subordinates the way founders treat everybody, that clearly defines the culture because come from top to the first-term manager. There's no rocket science around it. That's a good way to look at it. Interesting. So one quick closing thoughts. I think, you know, as one of the targets that I had for myself, what is my role as the CEO? I think one of the roles is hiring, right? So from an intern to anyone who is joining us, I make the first call. I close the last call. I will do it till about 200 or 250 people. That's my target. And I know it does get hard. Ask me about it. Let's be honest with ourselves. All of us, we call ourselves marketeers and all of that, and we tend to think that, you know, give it a lot of importance. We tend to think we know everything. We don't.  We are trying to figure out we have a mere approximation of the truth that we try to find out, right? And that's what we try to apply to many situations, right? Some of our best campaigns have happened like that. Some of our best work has happened like that. When we went out of that window, took a bet on a gut feeling that we had. One of us had, maybe I had, maybe, you know, my co-founders had, maybe my creative lead had, right? And that's how one of the most important things we do is make sure that we are successful. So I think, yeah, I mean, as Vikas was saying, right, we have started investing on AI. I think people who know how to use AI, and that's what Harshal was also saying, that they are the ones who will be successful. That is so very important to understand that every time it has already started in the creative teams, it has already started in the strategy teams, it will spread across, right? So, yeah. Super. Thank you very much for the lovely conversation, lovely insights. Thank you very much.