Live from Las Vegas, Nevada, it's theCUBE, covering Accelerate 2017, brought to you by Fortinet. Now, here are your hosts, Lisa Martin and Peter Burris. Welcome back to theCUBE. We are live in Las Vegas at Fortinet's Accelerate 2017 event, really exciting, buzzy day that I have had with my co-host Peter Burris. I'm Lisa Martin. We're very excited to be joined by ZsCaravalla Nex of ZK Research. Welcome to theCUBE. Thanks Lisa. We're happy to have you here. It's great to be here. And we, as I've mentioned, Peter and I have been talking with a lot of great folks all day from Fortinet, from Technology Alliance Partners. The buzz is here, obviously the security as an industry, the market, there's tremendous change going on there. Breaches are happening daily from big brands that we're all very aware of as consumers to the small mom and pop. So, Zs, you founded ZK Research. You said a little over five years ago. That's correct. But you've been in the industry as an analyst for quite a long time and you actually were in IT as well. Yeah, I was. I was. I played a number of different roles. I started off as an engineer. I held a role as a CIO for a while. I worked for a VAR. And then I got tired of doing that and I became an industry analyst and I've been doing that about 15 years now. Excellent. So, one of the things that we'd love to ask you about is during the keynote this morning, the CEO of Fortinet, Kenzie, talked about this big impact that hyperconnectivity is having in general, right? This proliferation of mobile devices, of IoT devices that are really causing a lot of challenges for security, but also talked about that there will be tremendous growth in the security market. What's your take on where the security market is going? Yeah, I really like Ken's keynote. In fact, Ken typically delivers very technical keynotes and that's worked well for him because customers tend to love him. And this one was a little higher level and I really like that. And Ken's right, we are moving into a world where everything is connected. It literally everything, our cars, our pets, the things we wear, the things in our home, everything in our business. And that has some profound implications for business. First of all, security's becoming an asymmetric problem for security professionals. What I mean by that is it used to be that you had one way into the network and you had to protect it. And the bad guys had to come through that way. Now, security professionals have to protect tens, hundreds, thousands of new entry points created from all these connections to the cloud to IoT devices, but the bad guys still only have to find one way in. And once they're in, we assume that environment is secure and they can meander around and the bad guys can figure out what to steal. And so I think one of the points that was underscored in Ken's keynote is the fact that security is changing. It's evolving from something that was focused at the perimeter to something that needs to be focused more internal. In fact, my research shows that 90% of security spend is still focused at the perimeter and only 20% of the breaches occur there. So you can see customers are misaligned with how they're spending their money. And I thought a lot of the messages from Ken's keynote were, I think, well received by the audience because it's something they need to hear. Yeah, he talked about the security evolution which I also thought was quite interesting. I saw a graphic the other day that showed by decades a security evolution. You talked about perimeter in the 1990s. It was focused on perimeter, obviously still important but not the only thing you talked about. There's a lot of ways in now. Then going on to web 2.0, web security, then cloud security in the 2010s. And now getting to this, what Ken described as the third generation of fabric needing automation, needing resilience. And as you talked about kind of internal. So I thought that was a really interesting way of looking at that. But also, very interesting that you're seeing almost that 80-20 rule with your clients. How are you helping them to sort of switch that from a spend and really show, even in some ways, maybe how the technology that they would employ from a security perspective can actually bring revenue opportunities? Yeah, I think they have to rely more on the technology and automation. Typically, security's been deployed box by box, device by device at specific points in the network using manual processes. And frankly, that's kind of slow, right? And security already has a bit of a bad rap that it slows the business down.  And in this digital era, and I was glad Ken talked about digital transformation because in the digital era, the new currency of business is speed. Companies need to move with unprecedented speed. Those that can do that will be able to sustain market leadership and those that can't will fall behind. And frankly, over the last five years, we've seen a bunch of big name vendors, brands that we all knew go away, right? Because they couldn't keep up. Now, when you think about what companies are trying to do, in order to be a digital enterprise, you need to be agile. But you're only as agile as your least agile IT component. And today that's the network. So if I've got this fully automated IT stack and I've got containers popping up and new applications being deployed and I'm accessing things from the cloud, but my engineers have to run around security appliances and deploy them, all that does is slow the business down. And so I think the concept of the security fabric is to ensure that you have the right services in the right places that you can turn on. And now security becomes a business enabler and not an inhibitor. So in some ways we're flipping the model around where security, like I said, has been viewed as something that's held the company back, but it's now something that can allow us to differentiate ourselves because we'll have the trust from the customers that we have the right security in the right places. I want to follow up on your point, you made about the 90% of the investment at the perimeter and 20%. There might be another way of thinking about it. I want to test this with you. Is that it takes, that 90% of security investment is what it takes to ensure that no more than 20% of the attacks occur at the perimeter. So does that mean that we need to reallocate that 100% of resources where that 100% is going to grow 3x because it's still going to require that 90% to keep the perimeter secure? Yeah, I think it's a bit of both, but I do think we'll see the spend the security go up because we have to secure more things. Like if you look at some of the big breaches that we've seen, in fact, almost all of them occurred from inside the network. So bad guys are smart, right? The hackers are, clearly they're some of those brilliant minds out there. That's why they're able to do what they do. And they know that the perimeter security today is so well built that the amount of effort it takes to break through it is very, very high. So you're right, that amount of spend is required to keep all that, those threats out. But it's not the only answer. It's not the only answer. And we need a, so we're going to need to continue to invest in endpoint and perimeter, but as you were saying, we also have to invest in data and have a balanced approach to the whole thing, which leads us to this notion of fabric. Yeah, and I think the automation capability is the fabric are, it can really help offset, like I don't want people watching this to think, oh my God, my security budget's going to be like triple what I had. Because frankly, the people costs associated with security from my research are almost about 60% of the cost. I mean, the equipment itself isn't all that much, right? So if I can invest more in the right technology and I can automate a lot of the things I can do today, now I can reallocate those people costs somewhere else. So in fact, I may wind up spending the same amount from an overall perspective or maybe a little bit less, but it'll be far more secure because I have the right technology in the right places. So where are those people going to go? You know, in this, I hear all the time, and I think this is one thing to tell automation back from IT people that they're scared to death of automation because they think their jobs are at stake. But if you look all the way back to the mainframe, we've always had this transition, right? Where we did things and the new technology came in and new skills are needed to do new things. And I think if you look at IT today, there's a crime need for data scientists, for analytic skills. I mean, security itself is less about point products and more about data gathering and data analytics. And there's very few of those professionals out there. So if I'm a professional, a security professional today, I want to automate those traditional tasks because I need to invest in myself to make sure that my skill set is current today and also a decade from now. And I think a lot of that's going to come from the data in the area of data sciences. Yeah, and a lot of those, as you said, a lot of those skills in doing the models of security and this fabric notion are transferable to other domains. Oh, absolutely. So if you don't want to stay a security professional, but most security people like security, that's why they're doing it. And, but I do think there will always be need for skills in the next thing. The key for the security professionals don't get stuck in the old world. You know, embrace this new world, embrace automation because it's going to free up their time to do things that are more strategic to the company, which is going to allow them to be more valuable as well. You touched on the fabric term a minute ago, and that's one of the things that Gordon announced last year was the security fabric approach. Can you talk to us about fabric versus platform? What are your thoughts there? And what are they, how are they different? Yeah, I think, first of all, the fabric and platform are both roughly trying to solve the same problem that too many vendors doesn't make you more secure. The fact by research shows that on average, companies have 32 vendors, security, different security vendors, which you can't build any kind of strategy around that. So the concept of either a fabric or a platform is that I can reduce the number of vendors, I can simplify my architecture, and I can get more intelligence across that and the entirety of the platform of the fabric. Now the difference though is I think the fabric, think of what a fabric is. It's a big cloth where any point is connected to any point. And so the security intelligence is spread across that fabric and I can drop new components in or take them out and things will continue to work. So it allows me that if I put a new IoT device in, I can push security capabilities there. If I start using a new cloud service, I can push security capabilities there. A platform to me is more dependent on a centralized point of control and I can attach things to that point of control, but if I take that point of control out, now none of the things work. And so I think that the fabric almost democratizes security capabilities across the infrastructure because it's more dynamic and more distributed and we're clearly living in a world where dynamism and distribution are the norm, right? And so the security architecture needs to follow that. Paradoxically, doesn't that centralize security platform then become the biggest security risk in the company? Yeah, well if you breach that then you can get anywhere. Right, right, and so I think the security fabric is the right way to think about it. It's not, you're not trying to beef up one particular area. You're trying to make a set of security services available across your entire infrastructure. Is that kind of the key advice that you give to your clients that are looking for it? This now requires a new approach, new architecture. Is that kind of the key advice that you offer to them? Yeah, well that's the biggest conversation I have with security professionals today is they don't really know where to go from here. They've invested all this money and all these tools and the environment's gotten increasingly more complicated, right? So they're falling behind, it's very, very slow and it's not working, right? The average number of days to find a breach is 100 days. Think of what can happen in 100 days, right? That's over a quarter and so there's a great desire to be able to find breaches faster but also first simplify the architecture and that's always my advice is you can't move forward until you take a step back and simplify, right? And the concepts I think of the fabric are really aligned with that. It's simplification, automation and it removes a tremendous amount of the human burden from security operations which, you know, frankly I think is holding things back. What are some of the things that you're most excited about? You were in the keynote this morning, we chatted about that. We talked about some of the things that were discussed there with the evolution of security that the third generation. You mentioned speed as currency and actually kind of jogged my memory about something that you were talking about with respect to data and also that was brought up this morning as the data value, if it's not valuable to a business, you know, that business has. Well, one of the things we talked about this morning specifically was that security used to be the department of no, as you said earlier and companies that can collapse the time between an idea and execution in a world where at least in the digital world where digital security is so essential are going to provide an enormous net new set of value propositions to their customers and I'm sure you've seen that. Yeah, well, no doesn't work anymore because of shadow IT. If you say no to a line of business they're just going to go find a different way to do it and that can have incredibly risky because now IT has no control. In fact, some of the interesting data points from my research is that 50% of companies don't know what devices are attached to their network and I think 96% of companies have IT services that have been procured not through IT directly by the line of business. So it's become the norm and I think if you look across the entirety of the world today from business processes through IT strategy, data and analytics has become the key differentiator to be able to take the data, analyze it and then be able to create some new insights. Now from a line of business perspective they're trying to understand the way you like to shop you know the sports teams you like the things you like to buy and push more relevant content to you. From a security perspective it's being able to find those breaches faster, right? And then being able to cut that number down from a hundred days to frankly we have to get to minutes and I thought some of the more exciting things they showed me keynote were the ability to take the data and then show it visually because I've always said you can't secure what you can't see, right? And if you're blind to what's going on in the network you'll never, ever, ever be able to truly secure it. And so I think we're Fortinet's entering an era now where they're actually harnessing the power of all the data they have but they're focused more on the UI you know the new FortiOS 5.6 A big part of that is the new user interface to be able to display the data in a way that's understandable by the people using the tools. Excellent, that's a great point that you can't secure what you can't see. You cannot secure what you can't see. Well Derek was, Derek Mankey was actually talking earlier who's the global security strategist here at Fortinet. I'm sure you know Derek. Was actually talking about one of the things he's excited about and I want to get your take on this point is that he thinks 2017 may be the year that the White Hats get the upper hand. Well hopefully, yeah I do think- Because of this notion of automation and- Yeah, you know I talked about the asymmetric problem security where the bad guys need to find one way in. I think data and visualization can reverse that because once they're in the network they need to stay, the bad guys need to stay hidden and the good guys, right, the internal security department only needs to find one instance of anomalous traffic or something that could indicate a breach to be able to start the process of remediation. And so you're right, I think in some ways well, maybe a little, maybe next year. Hopefully this year the White Hats start to, they'll at least gain ground this year and I think we'll start to see that a symmetry problem flipped. Precisely because you only need one instance of a bad action. Correct, correct. And a lot of these bad actions come from users specifically being targeted and sometimes security, no matter how much training they do, users don't know. You get an email from somebody, they click on it, somebody sends you a file. I've talked to HR people that have gotten resume's email to them that have viruses in them and they don't know, right? And so, but once that action starts the data and visualization tools can help identify those very, very quickly. And the important part about that is the faster you find it, the smaller the blast radius. So if I find it in five seconds, of course that I'm only, maybe only that HR person's computer's affected. But if it takes me a hundred days, now the whole department or maybe a whole building's been impacted. So, you know, containing that blast radius I think is something that security professionals need to focus on. As a blast radius, typically a function of time or is it also a function of proximity to other business activities? I think it's primarily a function of time and I think it's exponential, right? So the longer the time goes, exponentially greater the damage. Well gentlemen, tremendous conversation. There's a tremendous amount of opportunity I think is what we've heard today. Thank you very much, Zeus for sharing your insight, your research with us. Let's hope that 2017 is the year the White Hats hit the upper hand. Yeah, I think it's a really exciting time for security professionals. I think the first time in a long time they have the opportunity to fight back in a battle that they've been losing round in for really the better part of a decade. Well Zeus, thank you so much for joining us. And on behalf of my colleague Peter Burris, thank you for watching.


Good afternoon everyone and thank you for joining us for another episode of condo insider and condo insider is a show for people who live and work at condominiums, and we try to address issues and concerns for all of our listeners. And today, our show is in response to a request to deal with the speaker of the house his name is Scott psyche he represents cock-a-coe. He had a constituent call him and tell him that there was a fire drill in her building. And apparently she's in her late 70s or something and she was going down the stairwell and she was, she was injured and so you know it was a concern that she had about, you know, emergency evacuations. So, you know, today we're going to be talking about emergency evacuations, and I have with me I'm proud to have with me on my show from the fire department, Captain Christopher, a Bartolome. Hi captain. Hi, how are you doing. Good afternoon. Thank you for being my guest on my show. And thank you for arranging on such short notice to answer all of these questions that we have. And, and I did speak to you guys about the situation. And, and, and so you know one of the questions that we came up with is you know these fire drills that buildings have. Is there something in the code that requires these fire drills. So it, it says that, you know, you should at least hold one fire drill annually. The frequency would lean towards conductor drills until you become familiar with it, or everyone knows what they're supposed to do. So it's also good for your residents to know what to do. But the drills. Address the, the building staff so they should know what to do in case there's an emergency as well. Because those are the people that the residents might be looking to for advice or looking to, or what are we doing there's a drill. So these drills are put in place so that the staff becomes familiar with it. As well as you know the residents should be be familiar with it in case something does happen.  Yes. So, you know with this evacuation plans. Do you recommend that they be in writing and maybe they circulated to the owners and say hey, this is when we do a fire drill this is the way we're going to do it. And let, you know, let the owners kind of chime in and say, well, you know, you know what, you know, you know what if I can't make it down the steps, what if I broke my leg, or what if I have mobility problems I can't walk. Do I have to walk down the steps. I mean, how would you tell them how to set up their evacuation plans. Yeah, that's a good question right. So every building should have an evacuation plan for their building. They should have one that is dispersed to all the residents in the building. You should give it out annually. When you have new residents moving into your building. You should give them a plan so at least they know what to do in case there's an emergency. Right. You don't want people moving into your building and live in there and if something happens they don't know what to do. So we recommend, at least every year. You bring it up and you pass it out. If it's any changes to your plan you need to disperse that to your residents so they know what to do. Okay, and I know that with first responders and especially you mean you guys are usually the first ones at the building in case of an emergency. There is a list of vulnerability what they call vulnerable people and the building supposed to make up this list and put and there's a box that first responders have a key to so that when they come to the building, they go to that box first thing to get this list. Right, we call it the list of vulnerability and the building manager is supposed to be making this list up. What kind of information is on this list. So that list would consist of the people, like you said who are vulnerable have mobility issues, or they're not ambulatory that list should have their name the unit number at least so we know, and we know where these people are. As far as keeping that list in the box. I think you're referring to the, the box where we keep the elevator keys. Yes. We don't recommend putting it in there. What we would say or recommend is each building should have an enunciator panel for your fire alarm panel. We'll usually go to that panel to check what zone or why was alarm trip so we can find a location. So I tell people to make the list, keep it updated whenever people move out move in change units. You put it in a binder along with all of your emergency information contact names, building owners, and you put it by that enunciator panel having a binder or folder, because we're going to go to that panel. And then you keep another set of that with the building manager who has to go outside and meet the fire department. So he can share that information with the captain or the chief. So I would have two sets one by the enunciator panel, and then one for the building manager or whoever is going to go outside and meet the fire department. Okay, what, when you guys get this list, what do you do with that information. You know, that information is good because if, if suppose we have to get to that part of the building and we can see all who's in that section. It's going to be consistent. Right. So at least we'll be aware if if it's on that side of the building or this side of the building. You know, we'll be aware of it and take that into consideration and we're patting out our tactics or patting out our plan of how to attack this emergency. Okay, well let me go back to the code. Does the code require buildings to have fire drills. All right, it's, it's, I went back in was I was looking at the code and it didn't come out straight and say what we say at least annually should do it. As far as because you want your staff to become familiar with the drill, or with a plan. If, if no one's familiar with the plan where you're comfortable doing it. Everything goes down. Who's, you know, how people are going to know what to do where to go what path what egress path to take. As far as going to the drills like you're concerned about where people have mobility issues. I know you guys were wondering, oh what if this person has a hard time moving. What if they're bedridden, what if they're in a wheelchair. Right, that's my next question. Can they shelter in place. Yeah, so as far as drills go. As far as drills go we want you to participate but if you cannot. And don't you would do shelter in place if that's what you can do in an emergency if that's part of your emergency plan. Now sheltering in place is a whole different set of tips and rules that you have to do not just go back to your unit and stay there. There's things that you should do. What do you go back to your unit and shelter in place. And what are those requirements.  So what we would say say you go back to your unit, because you have to shelter in place because you have mobility issues you're not ambulatory, or even if you can move, you try to go out and close the door and the door is hot, the fire might be there, or you try to go out to the stairwell, and there's low visibility, there's heat, there's smoke. That kind of thing is also going to make you have to shelter in place.   You're going to block the spaces around the door with a wet towel or a blanket, or if you have duct tape you tape around the door to seal the space. You're also going to do that with, if you have air conditioning vents, you're going to take cover that up because you don't want smoke coming in that way either. You close all your windows and doors because what if smoke comes out from the outside and starts coming in from the outside into your unit. Now you have smoke coming in that way so you have to, you're sealing yourself in so smoke doesn't get in there you want to keep your space sterile right. So once you do that, then you can get, go on your cell phone or your phone and you call 911 and you say, I'm at this building that has a fire. I have to shelter in place. I'm in unit, for example, unit 501. So at least we know that oh there's someone in unit 501 that's sheltering in place as well right. If it's at night, you can shine flashlights to the window going to the outside. So then we'll see from the outside. Or you can wave brightly colored towel or blanket through the window so hopefully we'll see you waving that through the window from the outside. So those are all the things that you should do when you shelter in place not just go in and close your door and and wait. You have to do some stuff to keep yours, keep your unit smoke free. So you can stay there until we can come and get you. So going out to the lie is not a safe thing to do when you're sheltering in place. No, I would stay inside and you can you close up. Okay.  They have like a map. Every floor that has arrows and it says you are here. Right. And it tells you where to go. Do you recommend that buildings put that up in their buildings on each floor. So in addition to the emergency plan that you give to all your residents annually, if it's updated, or when it's when residents move in and you give them the emergency packet so they have the map in there. In addition to that, you can post your evacuation plan that has all your egress routes, the stairwells. You can put on that map where you have fire extinguishers. You can put in that map where they have pull stations. I would put that where everyone sees it so maybe like in all the elevator banks, because when they're waiting for the elevator, they can at least take a look at it. You know, or you can put it by the entrance to your stairwell or down in the entrance and by the lobby, just somewhere where people congregate for a while and then they can see it. But they should be given that plan. If they don't have one updated annually if you have to then pass out the new plan, just so they have it in with them in their unit. Right. Captain, you know, in my building, we have two stairwells, and one is enclosed, and the other one is, you know, it's open to the air. What if we tell the people if you have ambulatory problems or you broke a leg and you can't make it down the steps for some reason, you get to the stairwell that's open to the air and wait there for somebody to come rescue you. So that's a good thing to tell them. If you, if you're going to, if you can make it to the stairwell. If you go to the one that's open that's, if remember I told you about sheltering in place and smoke will come around or come up and so you're still if you're going to wait there you still might be in smoke in the open air one. If you're going to wait at the stairwell landing. I think you should go to the one that's enclosed because that's designed for safe egress. Okay, so they should go to the enclosed stairwell, because it's the same reason if you left your windows and doors open to your unit and somehow smoke got in that way now you're still in the same situation. What about you know in when a building sets up their emergency evacuation, what about if they set up like a fire committee or a safety committee and set up maybe four captains, would you suggest something like that so you have somebody who's responsible for tenants on certain floors. If you have the manpower, if you have the training. That's always good that you have someone there that knows what to do. Just in case the residents didn't take a look at the plan or they don't know what to do. It's always good to have that but if you're going to have that you got to make sure that they know what to do. That's why you would do your annual training and, or even if you do more than once a year to get familiar with the plan or become proficient in it, and you should do it second nature if you're not going to have that. Then, if you have those floor captains or we call them floor wardens, they might be in trouble as well if they don't know what they're doing. But if you can train them. Yearly, you have a fire drill yearly and then you have a tabletop exercise in addition to that where they can talk it over and become familiar with the plan. Then that's always good like in the high rise buildings that have business in them. They have floor wardens to clear out the business or that floor. We go to those businesses and we hold floor warden training and we go over it and we tell them, okay, this is what you have to do. So do you have, do you have programs for residential buildings? Does the fire department, will they come out and talk to the building and the residents? So we've, before COVID hit, one of our jobs or one of our duties was, our office did in-person presentations on fire and life safety. And we used to go out to different buildings after hours because that's when the residents are home from work, right? So the different boards or the different AOAOs would call us when they had their meeting and we'd come in and do a presentation before they did their regular meeting. So we were more than happy to come out and talk to your residents. We do a little PowerPoint presentation and we try to answer questions. So we will come out and do that. Can you give us a phone number right now where people can call if they want to set up a meeting or have your people come out and address their residents? Can you give us a phone number? Later on, they're going to post our website. It's fire.HanaLulu.gov. And if you go to our website, there's all the information there. Okay, the website is being scrolled right now. One of the listeners, if you want a phone number for the fire department to come and talk to your residents, go to that website, fire.HanaLulu.gov. Yes. And the phone number is there, right? It's also, yeah, you can call but there's also a tab to request that presentation. Follow the request tab and you choose what you want to have us come talk to you about because we also do career days.  Okay, so other than, you know, having these, you know, fire captains, I mean, four captains and, and, you know, maybe a safety committee, what other ways can buildings educate their residents so that they'll be able to evacuate a building in an emergency? So it's all going to come down to knowing what you have to do, right? Maybe you guys can have, if we don't come by, you guys can just make sure you guys talk to your residents maybe once a month, a little short safety at the beginning of your meeting and you go over the plan. We also have tip sheets, but we have a website you can go to and get tip sheets and print it out and you can put it up every month, a different one every month, right? It goes into fire safety and prevention. If we can make everybody safe and prevent fires, then you wouldn't have to worry about that evacuation part so much. So we like to go and do prevention first and then we'll go into the evacuation because it's better to just have not have a fire period, right? So every month you can put up a different tip sheet for different topics like in December we have a Christmas one for Halloween. So they can get this on the website and so they can download the information and post it on their bulletin bar. Yeah, so every month you can put a different one. There's more than 12 so you can change it out every month depending on what you want to put. One for, I think I sent you two attachments, one for high rise and one for apartment buildings, you could start with that. So every month you can put a new one on. If you go to a website, you should find the links there and if not, you just email me or there's a number on there. If you have your, your board contact us, like I said, we'd be more than happy to come out. Right now, if we can come out in person, we're more than happy to do a zoom presentation. It's pretty accessible you just got to want to have us come out and do it. Okay, you know I have some questions I told you that I had some questions from somebody who's listening to the show so since he's listening I better ask the questions. He's physically impaired or unable to walk down the stairs, and this is during a fire drill. Can they use the elevator, even though it's not a fire it's a fire drill should can they use the elevator. So, the thing about that if you're going to use that people going to do. Because a real thing we think we're going to be able to use the elevator, if you cannot move to show up there in place. We don't want to go to one of this go to the covered stairwell right yeah we don't want you going to the other because you're not going to use the elevator. I don't want people thinking to use elevator during drills and then something real happens, and they're still in that mindset, oh I always use the elevator, but it's not going to be available and it's not recommended. So if you cannot during a drill, because of your mobility issues, you should shelter in place but you should know what to do when you shelter in place. Okay, and or go into the, the covered stairwell. Yes, if you if you can make it to the enclosed stairwell, and there's wait there or slowly go down because once you're in there you should be safe so you can at your leisure or at.  Okay, and one of the questions was that you know and they would stay in the stairwell, until they got the all clear system. So that means that the, the building managers I guess this is something that if the building managers or property managers or board members are going to this show, they got to know is that if they set up a fire drill, and one of the things options that they give their residents, if you can't make it down a stairwell no don't use the elevator shelter in place, or go to a covered stairwell, and go as far down as you can, so just as long as much as you can. How are they going to. They have to also tell the people when all clear is and usually condominiums don't have a signal. So that means that they're going to have to send the security or other staff members, you know, to either go on doors, or if they have an email a blast email for owners to check their email, or check the stairwell right to see if people are sheltering because it's not like you have an audio system that goes throughout the building to say okay all clear, or you know a signal that says all clear. Right. So, in that case, if you are going to go to the coverage stairwell. There will be people walking down and the people walking down should acknowledge that they're there and they're going down slowly and try to get their name and remember where you saw that person so if you're passing someone that's having trouble but they're taking their time going down slowly, you can get their name is when you get to the bottom you can say, by the way, Mrs so and so we passed her and she's taking her time but we saw her last on floor seven, but she's taking her time. The building managers who are watching the show to incorporate into their evacuation plan is they got it, they got to give instructions to people who are walking down the stairwell to tell the management when they get to the bottom that somebody else is in the stairwell they got to check the stairwell. So, if you go into one of the presentations we do. We also do is called fire evacuation planning assist. So, if you have a plan already or you wanted to update it, or you want to know to go over it will come out and meet with two or two other guys or your your staff, and we'll kind of see what you need, or what areas you can improve on, or what areas good. So that's also one of the choices on the request that you know we'll come out and help you work on your evacuation plan but you should have something in place already that we can build off of. That's good to know that that's really good to know because I'm sure a lot of these buildings have maybe a skeleton plan, but you know that would be really good to know that they can call the fire department to get assistance and fine tuning their evacuation plan. Yeah, go to the website and request that so you're not going to you're not going to call the fire stations that's in your area, you're going to call I'm from the community relations office and education. So we go out and we do these educational presentations because we want the community to be safe and not get to that point where you have to call the fire department. Okay, and this is the last question. Can the parking deck doors be open during the fire drill so that the elderly can be taken down to the ground floor by a vehicle. So that's all that question and that one is a little tricky like we have to come out and see it right because any evacuations be a lot of people walking, and I don't know where that egress path that they had planned is a crossing drive is a crossing the parking lot. And if you have cars moving and people walking. I don't want to have an accident or someone getting hit. If you're in a drill, you know, if you're an elderly person that has again hard time moving. Don't just go down slowly, don't have to go all the way down to the ground floor, because if you start having moving a lot of moving parts. I don't want people to get hit. I want to come out and see your plan and see what the situation is I kind of make a blanket statement about that one I want to come out and see what it is. Before I say okay you can do that. Right and then cause more trouble.  And what I think I hear from you is that everybody's got to have a plan. If you don't have a plan now, you have to have a plan, and especially, I think most buildings know about the list of vulnerables and so I think, you know, but you've given us some additional information. And I heard about the, the two binders, and you know, and to have one ready with the site manager and the other one. Where did you say it should be by the, you should put it where it's easily seen by the enunciator panel, your entire panel. Okay. And we've kind of run out of time so I thank you very much captain for being my guests on the show. And, and we've, this is a YouTube show so you know, it's going to be available for people to watch over and over again if they want to. And so, hopefully they will, and they will, you know, use this information that you've provided them so that they will be safe in their homes and thank you so much for being with us and on behalf of the speaker of the house. Let me tell you, he's very grateful to the fire department for coming as such short notice to help his constituents with with a concern that they had. Thank you very much captain. No problem. Thank you for having us. You guys have a great day we just want to be safe. Okay, and thank you for all of you for joining us for this condo insider show, and please join us next week. We're Richard Emory will be your host for another episode of condo insider Mahalo and Aloha.


Now, the Court of Appeal of Boudja division on Friday ordered rivers government, the FIRS and the Attorney-General of the Federation to maintain status quo. That's pending the hearing and determination of applications before it in respect of the valley added tax. The Federal High Court, Port Hacott, had on August 9, declared that it was the rivers government and not FIRS that should collect that and personal income tax in that state. The three-men panel of appeal court justices ordered all parties to maintain status quo and refrain from taking any action that would give effect to the judgment of the Federal High Court, Port Hacott. Now, Gavnotsan Oulu has signed into law the State Valley Added Tax Bell. The State Commissioner for Information and Strategy, Mr. Gengar Motosha, in a statement on Friday said the Gavnots sign the bell after returning from a trip. The Gavnots sign the bell for a law to impose and charge that on certain goods and services at about 11.45 am today. That was after returning from an official trip to Abuja. By this act, the bell has now become a law. We'll bring you the details later.