and welcome to Burning Questions by Arts Equator. My name is Nabilah Said. I am the editor of artsequator.com. But firstly, some important announcements, especially for those who just joined us in the last few moments. If you're in the Zoom session with us today, we request that you do keep your video and audio off. Now, the reason why is because this session is being live streamed to the community on howlround.com, which is a theatre commons that has a worldwide presence. So we are actually also joined today by a worldwide audience which we are very excited about. And of course in the Zoom session as well, I'm sure there are people who are from different parts of the world and not just in Singapore. This session is also being recorded and the video will be made available later on. So if any of your friends could not join us, you can let them know that you can catch this later on. So for those of you who are new to us, Arts Equator is a regional digital media platform that is dedicated to covering the arts in Singapore as well as the rest of Southeast Asia and the world. And we publish original articles, podcasts, videos, photo essays, illustrations, and we work with a pool of writers and content creators in Singapore as well as worldwide as well. Now, you can also find us at artsequator.com. If any of you have never gone to our website before, we'll appreciate it if you want to check it out. But speaking of the Equator, this new series of talks that we're doing is called Burning Questions. And Burning Questions actually offers a space for regional voices to dialogue and discuss some of the big questions that are facing the arts community right now during this time when we're all affected by COVID-19. And we've seen how we've been just a few short months which have felt very, very long. The way that we make, experience, and consume the arts has radically changed and also exposed the extreme precarity of the arts sector as well. Burning Questions is actually a series of four talks of which today's one is actually the first. So we do thank you for joining us for this first of this new series. And this series is supported by Splice Lights On with live stream support by HullRound TV. Today, I welcome you to join us for the first in this series. So it's called Tech In Performance, The Great Leveler, or The Great Unequaliser? So that's our burning question for today. And before I hand you over to our moderator, Philippe Silvera, and the speakers in this session, just a short note. So at the end of the session, we will be having a Q&A. And we request that if you are in the Zoom session, you can actually put your questions in the live chat. So that's where we're going to be looking at your questions through the chat in the Zoom. For those of you watching this on the live stream, you can actually put your questions into the Facebook chat on HullRound's Facebook. And we will try our best to address as many questions that we get today. Time permitting, of course. If not, we will try to address them maybe at the after the session on our platforms. So that's all from me. Thank you very much. Maybe if anyone kind of missed the first part of what I just said, there are some Zoom instructions at the bottom of this slide that we have on right now. So we do ask you to do put on those follow this instructions for the best viewing experience. I'll now leave you in the capable hands of Philippe. Thank you, Nabila. Good evening, everybody. And thank you for joining us in this first session of Burning Questions. My name is Philippe Silvera and I am a lecturer in theater at La Salle College of the Arts here in Singapore. Saya akan menjelaskan sesungguhnya kepada pelanggan kita dan kemudian kita akan menjelaskan. Pembezaan teknologi tidak baru. Covid-19 mempunyai lebih banyak artis untuk menjelaskan medium digital mengandungi lag, kelihatan dan kehidupan sementara mempunyai perangkatan dan kecemasan. Kami menjelaskan renaissance baru dalam art performa atau yang tidak berlaku. Ia adalah kecemasan digital atau sesuatu yang benar-benar menghidupkan perangkatan yang lebih besar. Apa infrastruktur yang menjadi baru dalam perjalanan baru ini untuk kecemasan baru yang akan menjadi kecemasan? Siapa berhenti menjadi bahagian arti yang membuat proses? Siapa tidak lebih sebahagian dari perangkatan? Kami ada tiga bahagian yang hebat hari ini dan saya sangat gembira dapat menghidupkan mereka dalam perangkatan. Pertama-tama kita, Madeline Flynn, seorang arti Australia yang membuat situasi yang tidak menunggu untuk menjelaskan. Kerja dia diperkenalkan dan diperkenalkan dengan jauh-jauh-jauh. Dia telah menghidupkan beberapa festival internasional di Kuala Lumpur yang mempunyai Trionali di Kuala Lumpur, Theater Delveld di Jermany, Festival Brighton di Kuala Lumpur, Asia Toppa di Australia, dan Festival Antifestival di Kuala Lumpur. Hai, Madeline. Selamat datang. Pertama-tama kami adalah Brandon Tay, seorang arti media yang dibuat di Singapura yang memperkenalkan perangkatan yang tidak menunggu dengan jauh-jauh-jauh. Kerja dia menghidupkan perangkatan, kerja diperkenalkan, dan performa audio-visual dengan perangkatan di film dan animasi yang menghidupkan perangkatan ini. Kerja dia diperkenalkan di Singapura, dan sangat memperkenalkan perangkatan di Asia. Hai, Brandon. Pertama-tama kami adalah Lisa Valkau, seorang arti media di Kuala Lumpur. Pertama-tama perangkatan yang memperkenalkan perangkatan yang memperkenalkan perangkatan dan perangkatan yang memperkenalkan perangkatan. Maksudnya, dia juga bekerja sebagai produser di perangkatan perangkatan video, perangkatan hidup, dan perangkatan hidup. Dia juga seorang arti solo yang baru-berjumpa perangkatan perangkatan di Kuala Lumpur di Kuala Lumpur 2019. Hai, Elizabeth. Hai. Bagus. Untuk orang-orang yang bergabung, kami fikir ada tiga perangkatan untuk perangkatan ini. Dan cara yang kami akan memperkenalkan semasa setengah jam adalah kita akan memperkenalkan perangkatan ini dengan perangkatan yang besar di perangkatan ini. Kemudian, kami akan membuka perangkatan untuk pertanyaan anda dan untuk lebih banyak berbicara. Tolong berterima kasih untuk mengambil pertanyaannya di chat dan kami akan membuat perangkatan yang terbaik untuk mengajar mereka di Q&A. Jika ada kemungkinan, kami boleh mengajar mereka. Jangan mengajar mereka di pakaian Facebook dari Arts Equator dan kami akan membuat perangkatan yang terbaik untuk memperkenalkan mereka. Jadi, perangkatan yang pertama, saya akan bercakap dengan tiga perangkatan. Jadi, anda semua tahu apa ini. Di perangkatan yang terbaik di antara perangkatan dan saya, kami fikir ada tiga perangkatan. Pertama, ia adalah estetik atau filosofik. Pertama, ia adalah infrastruktur dan tiga, ia adalah sosial. Jadi, kami akan memperkenalkan perangkatan ini. Untuk mengambil perangkatan, saya akan menyebabkan perangkatan kita untuk memperkenalkan lebih banyak tentang perangkatan. Kemudian, berkongsi bagaimana perangkatan mereka telah berubah selama enam bulan lalu. Adakah anda telah mengalami kemungkinan artis atau kemungkinan besar dalam perangkatan anda? Di setiap hari anda? Mari kita mulakan dengan Madeline. Terima kasih, Filipe. Helo, semua. Saya berdasarkan di Melbun atau Narm. Dan saya berterima kasih untuk hidup di landa Kuala Lumpur, orang Wurandju di Kuala Lumpur. Dan saya ingin beri kemungkinan saya kepada alat-alat mereka yang berjaya di masa depan dan masa depan. Dan saya di sini. Ini di mana saya berada. Dan sejak minggu dan sebenarnya untuk saya dan Tim siapa partner saya dan siapa yang saya bekerja dengan, itu sangat tidak biasa untuk kita berada di satu tempat di tempat kita, di tempat rumah kita, selama ini. Jadi, itu sangat praktikal, masyarakat. Itu berlaku. Ia ada banyak soalan, Filipe. Jadi, saya rasa untuk beritahu, saya akan beri kepada anda sedikit untuk cuba beri sensibiliti keperluan kita. Jadi, latihan saya dan latihan adalah dalam suara dan musik. Dan diambil dalam perkara musik dan suara suara, tentu saja, adalah idea kerja dan masa. Dan melalui keperluan-keperluan dan keperluan-keperluan kita membuat sebuah set kerja yang berlaku dan perangai yang berlaku dengan teknologi, teknologi, industri dan komuniti. Jadi, mereka mengambil semua keperluan. Saya mungkin bercakap tentang satu kerja yang adalah, dan sepatutnya kerja yang berlaku, kita tidak dapat buat lagi. Kita bercakap di sini tentang saya percaya ada keperluan-keperluan dan keperluan-keperluan kerja yang kita telah berlaku dalam perjalanan mungkin. Jadi, saya akan beritahu tentang kerja ini yang kita telah mempunyai dan ia telah diperkonginan oleh Festival Australia sekitar dua tahun lalu. Dan ia adalah sebuah keperluan-keperluan yang kita nampak semi-intelligent. Megal terpesel keaneously sepanjang kerja ialah keperluan-keperluan yang besar, kerja tenir umum. Atau elevated Ia dibuat dalam program yang dipercayai... Tidak, bukan dipercayai, tapi dipercayai. Program yang dipanggil Dialogflow, yang penting seperti anda menulis chatbot, tetapi anda menulis responsibili. Jadi, apa yang bermakna adalah, ia menjadi... ia menjadi masyarakat yang besar... dengan... sehingga kita boleh menulis bahagian, semua kemungkinan yang boleh berlaku dalam bahagian itu. Jadi, ia adalah permainan, ia sederhana... ia kadangkala serius, ia sederhana poetik. Ya, orang boleh mempercayai dalam segala jenis cara yang berlaku. Dia bercakap... apakah dia? Ada banyak perkara yang kita boleh bercakap tentang di sana, tentang, saya rasa, kekno-feminist... perspektif di... di sebuah pembentangan... di sebuah pembentangan artisial atau assistan. Tetapi... jadi, sekurang-kurangnya pada saatnya, dalam sekurang-kurangnya 35 bahagian. Jadi, kerja itu... telah berada... di beberapa tempat yang berbeza di dunia. Dan... ia adalah kerja di mana orang perlu berhati-hati sebuah objek, kan? Mereka perlu duduk di sana, mereka perlu berhati-hati... biasanya di sebuah pembentangan, banyak orang akan melakukannya. Jadi, pada saat itu, kerja itu berbeza di dalam studio saya dalam sebuah pembentangan yang besar. Dan saya tak dapat melihat bagaimana kerja itu akan berjaya untuk orang, untuk penonton, untuk tempatan, untuk masa depan yang saya dapat melihat pada saatnya. Felipe, bolehkah kamu tanya... bolehkah kamu beritahu apa yang satu pertanyaan yang lain? Baiklah, mari kita berbual. Jadi, kenapa... Boleh kamu beritahu lebih kenapa... kamu fikir bahawa pembentangan ini berbeza... seperti menjelaskan keadaan keadaan sekarang? Ini disebabkan pembentangan. Ini disebabkan mobiliti. Dan juga, kamu akan berkata bahawa... keadaan ini... keadaan ini adalah sebuah performa. Dan keadaan ini adalah sebuah pembentangan, lebih daripada sebuah teater, kan? Kamu akan berkata bahawa keadaan ini adalah sesuatu yang berlaku... apabila pembentangan seperti keadaan sosial... atau keadaan ini berlaku? Ya. Sudah tentu kamu betul. Ini adalah pertanyaan mobiliti. Ini sudah adalah pertanyaan untuk saya. Seperti untuk semua kita, saya rasa pada masa ini... apa yang akan diberikan adalah... masalah dan keadaan yang sudah di sana. Jadi, ini sudah adalah pertanyaan untuk saya... untuk hidup di sebuah negara... dan mengubah... keadaan yang lebih teruk di seluruh dunia. Ini tidak boleh diberikan. Jadi, sudah itu adalah pertanyaan. Tapi... jadi... jadi, ya, mobiliti. Kamu tahu... jelas-jelas, sangat... terutamanya saya di sini, di mana saya di sini. Kita mencari... jadi, kita kembali di negara keadaan ini. Kita mencari... mungkin pergi ke pejabat yang paling seronok... di mana kita boleh... hanya bergerak 100 meter jauh dari rumah kita. Jadi... kita berada di tempat pengetahuan seperti itu... pada saat ini... yang sudah mencari... Australia tidak dapat tinggalkan negara ini... pada saat ini... sampai Oktober. Dan... memutuskan orang-orang yang boleh datang di sini juga. Jadi... Ya. Saya tidak... kita tidak akan pergi ke mana-mana, bukan? Saya rasa... saya rasa ia penting bahawa kita memutuskan keadaan ini... dan mungkin kita boleh bergerak ke Brandon. Tapi... saya rasa ia penting bahawa kita memutuskan keadaan ini... kerana... dalam keadaan yang paling terakhir... untuk keadaan yang terkenal... tentang keadaan yang lebih filosofik... keadaan COVID-19... keadaan yang lebih terkenal... adalah keadaan yang lebih terkenal. Dan saya tidak fikir kita telah berbicara... sangat banyak tentang mobiliti. Dan mobiliti dalam perasaan... bagaimana keadaan dan performa... di dalam ekonomi global... dan ekonomi kreatif... adalah sepatutnya berjalan dan itu tidak berlaku. Jadi bagaimana itu? Apa? Bukan hanya keadaan ekonomi... tetapi juga bagaimana kita... memikirkan keadaan... keadaan mobiliti dan performa... dan bagaimana kita dapat belajar... daripada keadaan itu... mobiliti, daripada keadaan itu. Dan juga untuk menjelaskan... keadaan yang lebih filosofik, bukan? Ya. Jadi bahan-bahan itu bukan hanya tentang... keadaan yang lebih filosofik... tetapi juga... keadaan yang lebih filosofik. Jadi, mari kita berbicara... mungkin semasa kita bergerak, kita boleh juga balik... ke keadaan itu. Brandon, bagaimana dengan awak? Hai. Hai, Philippe. Hai, semua. Ya, saya rasa seperti... saya mungkin ada pertanyaan tentang diri saya... dan apa yang saya lakukan... dalam konteks ini... atau dalam perjalanan ini... dari audience ini... saya rasa saya mungkin lebih terkenal... untuk berkongsi dengan... artis lain... dalam sebuah... perjalanan multimedia. Apa yang saya katakan, bukan? Tapi... seperti... saya sedang membuat... sebuah... sistem animasi yang... interaktif... untuk performa. Jadi, saya... kemudian... kemudian yang terakhir yang saya bekerja... dengan Troika Phi... telah menjadi... Cosmic Wonder, Taiwan... dan Unbearable Darkness... dan sebelum itu... Tanskinic. Jadi... ini sepatutnya... menjadi sebuah tahun yang terlalu sibuk... tapi, terutamanya, kerana... kerana COVID-19... banyak hal yang telah... telah diperlukan ke kedua-sebaik tahun. Dan itu telah berlaku sejauh ini. Jadi, saya menghabiskan... sebuah tahun yang pertama... memiliki... hubungan yang sangat berlaku. Jadi, itu sangat... seperti... tidak terlalu terakhir... tapi menarik juga... untuk melihat... seperti... perasaan saya... atau pengalaman saya... telah menjadi sangat berlaku. Keputusan saya telah berubah... dan perkara yang saya... melakukan pada masa itu... telah berlaku. Saya rasa... perkara untuk saya... yang... seperti... saya berfikir tentang... yang saya selalu melakukan... pada masa ini... adalah... seperti yang anda menyebabkan... Affili Pei... apa... pertanyaan tentang... perasaan... dan perasaan. Dan... kekutusan yang telah berlaku... telah berlaku... seperti... apa yang kita cuba lakukan... dengan kekutusan medium atau teknologi... yang kita ada... dan... apakah itu... kita akan bawa kekutusan tua kita... ke kekutusan baru? Jadi... saya rasa... seperti... seperti metafor dan elegi saya... saya terus berlaku... ketika saya melihat... seperti kekutusan kita... atau seperti... kekutusan yang telah diperlukan... dengan kekutusan yang telah diperlukan... adalah... seperti... seperti... seperti menonton... kekutusan... antara teater untuk menonton.  Tapi, telah anda menjelaskan dengan apa-apa yang menjelaskan? Saya rasa banyak yang saya lakukan sekarang adalah cuba mencuba bagaimana menjelaskan logik permainan atau melakukan konteks hidup. Dan dengan permainan, saya bermaksud bukan hanya permainan digital tetapi juga permainan tabletop atau permainan dengan banyak participan. Jadi, saya rasa apa yang mungkin menarik adalah untuk bekerja sekitar itu. Jadi, saya hanya menjelaskan dengan berfikir dan menjelaskan model-model yang mungkin lebih menarik. Lebih banyak model-model yang lebih menarik, saya rasa. Terima kasih, Brandon. Jadi, hanya melakukan perkara-perkara dan memulai idea berkongsi dengan hubungan. Kita mempunyai mobiliti dan anda membawa ke pejabat kemungkinan yang berkongsi dan kemungkinan yang berkongsi yang sepatutnya berkongsi dengan mobiliti. Sekarang berkongsi secara berkongsi secara berkongsi secara berkongsi. Dan itu juga mengalami konteknya, bukan? Jadi, itu juga mengalami kemungkinan artis yang berkongsi dan berkongsi ke pejabat. Dan juga sesuatu yang saya rasa sangat penting adalah perkara-perkaraan ini. Dan saya rasa juga sesuatu yang telah digunakan dalam berkongsi adalah kita hanya, dalam menggunakan Zoom atau software videokonferensi sebagai solusi yang berkongsi, kita juga hanya menjelaskan bahawa itu tidak sepatutnya politikal dalam perjalanan komuniti atau menjelaskan orang-orang, bukan? Menjelaskan audience. Jadi, saya rasa bahawa perjalanan ini sangat penting juga untuk menjelaskan dan mungkin berkongsi sehingga kita berpikir perjalanan atau kita hanya mengalami seperti jika perjalanan digital tidak mempunyai perjalanan yang kita ingin mempunyai. Jadi, kita ada idea ini yang sudah di tengah-tengah. Saya akan pergi kepada Elizabeth dan mungkin kita boleh mendengar dan mempunyai lebih banyak minum perlulat sebelum kita boleh berjalan. Elizabeth, bagaimana dengan anda? Helo, saya baik. Okey, so, hai semua. Seperti Filipipi yang beritahu, saya adalah pembangunan perbunatan jadi ia dikenal sebagai diberkongsi diberkongsi tapi sekarang ianya diberkongsi. CPU sebab saya tidak rasa kita hanya melakukan sekeliput kemelamaan yang istimewa, kita hanya melakukan specific performance. So for thereabouts, we are very focused on putting sites and spaces as the focal point of a performance. And for that, our creation process means that we make the discovery and exploration of these sites as a priority in conjunction with various social political narratives, human experiences, and even the politics of its architecture or its place or its inhabitants if there any. For me, as a producer in the last year, I've been doing quite a lot of video and film production and recently live streaming as well. So I've always been interested in marrying live streaming experiences and technology with performance. When I was in university, I experimented with it in my final year. In addition to metal hominid, I did another show called Jia Kang Tang, which is about cultural hybridity. And when I came back to Singapore, I streamed it live on Facebook and I had audiences interact with me live on Facebook and I found that very intriguing because it gave a lot more people access to my performance. I really like the idea of live streaming in performance because I think that it amplifies your audience instead of just being within four walls of a theatre or of a physical space. Your audience is now this huge place called the internet. There are like billions of people on the internet and you can share the same moment over and over again and it's been crystallised and cocooned in this thing called a video or live stream and people can come and watch it again. I find that very interesting, especially as a theatre maker, we always talk about how every moment of performance is unique or the same woman can never happen twice. Even if you are performing a Shakespearean play for four nights and it's the same play, nothing is ever the same. Whereas if you want to put something online, it's there forever. It doesn't change unless you change it and very rarely you do unless you have the prudence to take it down for some reason. So I think that's sesuatu yang saya cuba berjaya dengan dalam kejadian kecuali. Saya rasa dalam kejadian terakhir-akhir saya rasa saya ada lebih banyak masa untuk berfikir tentang itu. Saya sebenarnya mengambil sebuah berita daripada membuat kejadian kecuali disebabkan kejadian kecuali saya dengan dan juga COVID-19.     Saya hanya akan membawa perkara-kara bersama-sama. Saya rasa yang yang saya sangat menikmati dengan apa yang anda katakan adalah, ada sebuah kecuali yang berlaku di antara politik dan kecuali yang berlaku dalam performa kecuali dan live streaming. Jika anda fikirkan tentangnya, live streaming adalah juga kecuali yang berlaku, anda tahu, dalam sebuah kecuali. Jadi mungkin kita boleh mulakan dengan menggabungkan perkara-kara kecuali di sana. Jadi ada apa yang anda menjelaskan adalah politik baru dari kecuali kecuali dari kerja anda. Saya akan mengukar, pada operator ini, Dzemadnego adalah mengalami pengalaman kecuali dan juga pengekali, yang Brandon mengabungkan. Jadi bagaimana politik dan estetik Syirah untuk akhirkan kecuali kecuali kecuali kecuali kecuali kecuali kecuali kecuali kecuali kecuali kecuali kecuali, dan anda juga. Bagaimana kita melalui perkara-kara ini? Biasanya, jika kita melalui perkara-kara yang apa yang terbaik untuk orang-orang menunggu pekerjaan perjalanan. Okey, saya bermakna semua orang ada keputusan yang berbeda dengan beberapa definisi jenis dan sebagainya. Tapi untuk saya, saya akan berkata, pekerjaan perjalanan adalah apabila anda meletakkan perjalanan sebagai poin fokal.   Dan anda akan memakai flasik dan sikap mianat telepon, Ya, so, and I think to tie that in with like agency and mobility. I think the online space is something that we're just beginning to scratch the surface and crack the code on how to use this place slash medium slash function as a means of developing personal agency or public agency and also as a means of mobility. Because I think with the invention of the internet, people have access to expose themselves to other audiences across continents and have access to other content from around the world. Ya, so I think that's something that we shouldn't be afraid to tackle. Ya, what are your thoughts in this point? I'm really interested. I've been really thinking about the dissonance of this time, like this, the cognitive dissonance of what it means in many different ways in this time, but specifically if we think about size. For me, there's this dissonance of I am here, this absolute place. And actually, I always choose to show where I am because I feel as if that's for me that makes sense about helping me locate myself in where I am. And also because I'm seeing myself, right? I'm getting this reflection back. So, so there's this sense of this is this is my hyper local. I am totally in my hyper local. And I imagine as for other people, there's been, I have a very strong local community and a lot of mutual aid has happened within walking distance or riding distance in my community. So, there's a very strong hyper local like that. And then, then in my virtual communities of which, as Liz said, we already had, right? We already had virtual communities and we already use these platforms. They were already part of our lexicon. So, I think what's happened is this sort of massive expansiveness of the virtual communities that we're in. The sites of them have their, I've been really enjoying the different sort of like, they like to have these different tonalities. The of or tambas in these different groups that I'm existing in. And that we're all existing in. And so in that way, they have a specificity of their site within these virtual chambers that we're making. Yeah, that's my response. Hyperlocality. I'll come back to the point. Love it. Brandon? Yeah, I guess like for me, when it comes to doing, when I think about site in terms of performance in the digital, what I think about is like being situated in time rather than in space. For example, like, I mean, we are all like being situated in time in this chat as well or in this forum. And I think that's something that like would be applicable in terms of how to think about what translates in performance from the stage to this. But like, but what I thought was interesting was that if you are using a tool such as zoom, there is ability of for the, for the people that's even in the chat right now to engage in the performance. And maybe there's a new kind of like process or new kind of way of thinking about what this is. As opposed to, like, what we traditionally think of like a performance. I think that is something that would be really interesting to me. Yeah. Yeah, I think I agree with you. And I love that much of what we're saying is also mirroring the comments on the chat. So I'll address those comments in a moment which I also think Chris and Rich and thank you very much for those. But on the point of hyperlocality, I think that, you know, in a way, the economy is the globalizing, but performance practice is at probably its most global moment. And, and, you know, the zoom or other infrastructures have level the playing field. And our, our outputs are mostly at the same level of offer of outputs that have heavy colonial or heavy hegemonic weight like the National Theater of the UK. And I think that that's also something important to note. I think that this an excellent point that more than I mean we're experiencing a performance in multiple hyperlocalities and multiple synchronicities and that's weird. Right. There's a hyperlocality of my room meeting your room and seeing my face, and there's hyperlocality of the chat. So, thank you. I think that, you know, just to have a macro view, I'm really glad that we didn't speak about liveness just for the sake of liveness in these first 20 minutes of a conversation. I think that there's so much more that we can begin to talk about in how performance is being made in lockdown and during the pandemic. I want to move the conversation a bit forward because I'm mindful of time and I want to address these comments of our audience. And I want to begin to speak about the infrastructural level of what we're saying. We've spoken about the philosophical and the big concepts of how is this actually being made. So, you know, we know that the history of tech in performance goes way beyond simply using video conferencing softwares. Now, right. Tech in performance is something performance needs tech in many ways performance is a technology. But more specifically, the question is what do you appreciate are the things that we have forgotten about this history of tech in performance. And actually what new things are coming at an infrastructure level, what are the new infrastructure infrastructures we stop using and what infrastructures are we using now that we didn't quite appreciate to be in the network that makes a performance possible. Let's begin with Brandon this time around. So, by definition, by infrastructural of what, what did you mean. What sustains the structure, right. So, to give you an example right now this call is being facilitated by trans oceanic cables as much as a vast satellite network. And, you know, what I mean that that's just from the top of my head but we should also be using the air con that is in our rooms and we should also be use like, you know, it's not only the centralized air con in the theater now. You know, we're, we're, we're experiencing for different climates. Okay, I guess maybe like, I would like to say that maybe in terms of the tools that we might be transitioning to. I don't think like a tool that like such as zoom that's supposed to be created for online webinars or like, like group chats is the best tool that we could possibly make. And there's an element of like, that it's anybody scarce at the moment, but what to transition to or what's the most effective way. And I think like there is an opportunity for both performers and technologies to kind of figure out what each other want. And what they can, they can, what they can offer. Like, I think the most important thing is for me is like, how, In terms of archival, right? Like a performer performance is archived on a video and played endlessly. First of all, it's not live. And second of all, it's a video. So there is an element that doesn't translate in terms of like variability in how a performer tries to deliver in something that's hyper localized and specific. So, I think that's the first thing that infrastructurally that we have to kind of think about. Like how to situate the performer in the space and time. And also create financial support that they are image or database or isn't like used to kind of replicate or represent another version of themselves. One interesting thing that I kind of thought would be the wrong way of doing it is like, for example, now we can use AI and GPT tool, which is a text generation AI to kind of like create articles or narratives based on the voice of a source text. So there's thinking speculatively like in the near future, I mean we will be able to kind of like create videos of performances without the actor present just from the archives. So, I think it's really important that we as we transition digital that we create equity for performers for their time and also technicians. And I think all the elements for creating this is that like we do have a blockchain system, we do have like protocols and software to do all this is just a matter of adoption. So, I think that's something that both technologists and performers have to both have some discussion about. That's great. Thanks, Brandon. I'll come back to the point on on the tech crew. Madeline, what are your thoughts? I think about the infrastructures that we need, Felipe, for me are agreements, like the ways of that we share an agreement of what we're doing together. So, I think that's a key infrastructure actually. I'm a big fan of Gia Tolentino. And her, my first my first reading actually in lockdown time was her TwicMira Book of AirSafe. I commend it to everybody if you haven't come across it before. She's an amazing writer and thinker. She's Filipino-American writer. And she's got this thing that she says about the thing and the representation of the thing and that we get confused and we accept the representation of the thing. For the thing. And so she's just asking us, I think, to separate out these two threads of and to make sure that we have an awareness about our connection to a thing and a representation of the thing. And so for me, what was exciting because certainly that her writing is not specifically to do with arts and artistic life and culture. But to know that those key ideas that actually sit within performance for us about representation of something and something. Actually, that's something that we're really expert in this abstract space and a way of negotiating these separate ideas to create a new third space in a way. That's what we know how to do as artists. So anyway, that's my answer. Okay. I like, I love the idea of infrastructure of agreements. And, you know, like just it's both agreements between the people that are going to do the thing but also being in agreement with the tech, right? Yes. There was a moment in your intervention that the sound lag. And, you know, that was a moment in which technology did not agree with what was going on. That's also, it be what's meant to think that we may be too accustomed to the transparency of technology in performance. We just hope that everything works but, you know, these kinds of things really evidence the extent to which technology sometimes... Oh, my God. I mean, certainly, I imagine for the other artists too, but any, you know, working in tech and art, it's like you have, it's designed to fail. You always have to know, you know that it's going to fail, right? It is. So, so the failure has to be built into the project. That's all. Yeah. So what do you think? I think Brandon and Madeleine touch on two things that I think are quite important. Agree, like the idea of like everyone needs to be in agreement of what's happening. The tech needs to, the tech also needs to work for us. I think you also need to talk about like the ethics of this sort of placing of work online and then also that balance of tech and human effort, I guess. Because I think maybe what if at the end of the day, all you need is just one person to do a performance of eight or seven characters because you have things like a motion capture, you have CGI, you have AI as Brandon mentioned. And as Madeleine mentioned, yes, like tech is definitely meant to fail. It is doomed to fail because it doesn't improve on itself unless, you know, we get to a stage where we can finally create computer systems that can rebuild themselves or that can program themselves and fix their own bugs. But at the end of the day, yeah, it's that now it's a new chicken and egg thing, you know, does tech come first or does human come first? What makes artwork more important now? Is it how magnificent it is done through tech or how magnificent the idea of the artist is that they have decided to incorporate tech or decided to rely on tech to make their ideas and the concepts come alive. Instead of on human people. I think that's something that I think it's very exciting to think about. It might sound a little bit like nihilistic, but I think it's very exciting to think about having to just completely do work with just codes, screens, and technology, or just a whole suite of Adobe.  Yeah, because people are a bit, I think people of my generation maybe might be a bit more like sanitize to performances created by computers. Yeah, even though, yeah, the life, yeah, sorry. I just I just want to highlight that question, like, what is the benchmark to evaluate a piece of art now, you see it. Exactly. The question that you had, I think that is brilliant. Yeah, so I think yeah, and that's, and that's also another question with ethics as well. Like, as a performer, performance maker, and for, and for policymakers and bureaucrats working in, you know, for arts councils across the world, like how, where do they draw the line for themselves, or where do they draw the line across the industry. You know, to what extent, to what extent is a performance great, or, or noteworthy when it comes to incorporating technology. Seeing as, as Felipe, as you said, like technology has been a part of performance. I would say since the beginning, since performance began in Greece, you know, technology has been around, but you didn't see Aristotle or you didn't see Euripides getting awards for the best use of police in their performance. You know, or, or fire. But now you've got performances that are just noteworthy because of the amount of tech used in it, or the fact that it's completely DR. There's also this thing of tech in performance, like, you know, the, the infrastructure will make a, like performance happen. And also the artistry of tech, right? How RTE, the artist is using whatever technology. So it's not only what enables AI, but how do you as an artist pose a relationship with AI or with whatever other technology. We're conscious of time and there's plenty of stuff in here. We have questions from the audience. Maybe we can just wrap this up, but you know, this is already really a great map of ideas. We have ideas of mobility collaboration hyper mobility hyper locality. The need for archival tech locating the performance, the performer in times of phase infrastructures of agreement. Evaluation of performance artistry in relation to new technologies. So we're, we're, there's a bunch of stuff there that we will need a few sessions to unpack. Let's move on to the last point. And I think we're already more or less reaching out to it, which is a social point. Earlier on, Brandon, you mentioned how there is some awkwardness between the transition of theater. Of theater as a concept to film as a concept and that weird encounter between broadcast media and television and theater. And we have also spoken of infrastructure aspect to this. But what about the social, how, who, who in your teams is no longer with you. And just to give a bit more context and, you know, I mentioned yesterday when we, when we planned this session that for me, this panel is missing a technical director. This panel is missing a fly operator, right. I mean, just salute to our, to our colleagues that, you know, we lost our jobs as artists, but those guys lost seasonal stuff in theaters around the world are no, there's no back. There's no safety net for them. So, we know that we know that that one of the greatest impact of Kobe on theater and performance is that tech crew are no longer, or most of them are no longer needed. And that's, that's a deep social impact. But that's just the context that I want to ask this question in your practice. Are you not engaging anymore? And what collaborators now you find yourselves having to engage with? Or has there not been a change? For me, I think the, the people who are missing people like front of house staff and performance assistance.  I think that's something that, yeah, it's lost. I think that's one set thing about, about being excited and like moving on with like tech and performance, but it's that, it's that, I guess that's how I would, would see the manifestation of having that those people physically present for the audience to support, that support both ways, support the audience and, and the, the arts maker. Or the director of performance. Yeah, so I think that's one thing that that's missing. And I think that also impacts on, on passing on, I guess, your work to people who, who are trying to find new experiences. So, you know, students or, or people who are younger than me who want to know a bit more about that specific work. And they, and I need assistance or I get them to help me out. Yeah, so I think that's one thing that, that, that will become a gap, I think, because then I think maybe fresh graduates or young, or young people who want to experience theater, they will, they won't get those opportunities to do that anymore. Because I remember like as a, when I was a teenager, having those opportunities available, you know, being able to assist in a performance or being able to be part of the performance making process as a front of our staff or assistant. That was something that was a really good avenue for me. Yeah. Yeah. Manonin, your thoughts? Yeah. So, Fulipa, I have very connected relationships with a whole set of different technical people as collaborators. And I guess I would, I think about them like my cousins. And so long relationships with lots of people. And I guess what's happened here is that theaters are closed, public spaces are closed. And as you say, those people are often, often I employ those people, often I bring those people with me and they're part of my project. It's happening now and I'm just one person who many, many people are doing this. Artists who are starting to get, we're starting to get new commissions or we're starting to get creative development towards a presentation next year, that sort of thing. Then we're bringing those people in to those conversations and the developing of, you know, the tech specs for something or the possible imaginary tech specs or the, you know, production schedule or a risk assessment. The things bringing those people in a lot earlier actually than you normally would in a process. So, so they can be employed. And also, so we can solve. I mean, it's, of course, as we all know, the earlier we are together, the better the solution is going to be.  So, so that's certainly, certainly one practical solution. I think that's, that's vital. We forgot about risk assessments. I love risk assessments. Yeah, I'm not. I don't have skill in risk assessment, but I love the process with the risk assessor, because often I'll be making things that, you know, aren't, haven't been made before. So there's a lot of things that are part of that. Yes. So that's a, that's a sort of very practical pragmatic solution that we're dealing with here. And also, I guess the other side to say, I really respond to what Luke is saying about people who aren't in our communities, who aren't having the opportunity to engage with process and practice, which is normally what we would be doing. And so what I've been doing and lots of other people to is like, I'm being like a sound whisperer. That's what I've been calling it because, because so maybe it's like mentoring. I don't really like the word mentoring because why? Lots of reasons it's got an imbalance, imbalance of power in it. Actually, that's why I don't like it. But so encouraging those people in online public spaces to reach out to me and say, tell me what you're working on. I'd love to see, let's book in like, let's have a half an hour chat about what you're doing. What funding are you applying for? Sure. I'll write you a support letter. So all that sort of mutual aid. There's a lot of that happening. Yeah. So as I imagine, it's a thing. Thanks, Brandon. Um, what was the question again? But how has your team changed? Who, who, who suddenly went missing? And okay, who new member you have? Well, like for first, like, usually my, my work is collaborative and I usually fulfill that technical aspect of a production or performance. And like, so for me, adapting to this time has been about figuring out like what the opportunities that everyone can have, like adapting to a new medium. And I guess like, one thing I wanted to say was that like, like we now have like opportunity where they are like, there's a more, there's a polarity of spaces that we can kind of perform or have performances in with a much less, much less budget. So we can kind of create the things that we need to, and therefore we can work with smaller teams, maybe, or with like, or leverage of the technology itself. So that's more or less where I think the nature of the kind of work that I do for other artists is going to be. Creating more like self-contained performances in the virtual rather than creating something in a space where there will be a whole different. There will be a different infrastructure for that. I think that's something that everyone can kind of think about doing as they transition, as technicians transition into doing something else that's when we don't know what the future of the performance base going to be. Ya, no, I think and I think that I appreciate you, including the technical colleagues as also in a transition. So I think that there's also a question there of how, how is that this practice also taking care of, of its back end, right? Of its dark room, and how are we also not transitioning art for the arts sake, but also art for the infrastructure that makes it and for the people that make the art, right? I mean, it will be impossible to think of the beat of, you know, from the top of my head, it will be impossible to think of Robert Wilson. I'm thinking Robert Wilson because of the sheer size of the stage and the level of infrastructure he requires. It will be impossible to think of that level of performance without an army. And it's important that we take care of these, of these colleagues as well. So again, for you who are joining us, these are plenty of ideas we have a lot on the table. We are surely not going to resolve everything that we have brought up. But it is really revelatory to me that we have all of these ideas and we have not mentioned the problem of whether some performance is life of mediators. And this is telling that beyond just force feeding performance into a new medium, there's so much more in here that we need to address. I want to begin shifting to the questions. We have a few questions in the chat. Thank you very much for those of you who have typed your questions. Please bring them on. So the first question is from Richang. Has translating performance and interactive art into digital space changed the role of these art forms in society? What are your thoughts on that? Is that what we're doing? Are we translating it? I don't think we're translating it. I think we're creating something new because that's what we all know how to do. It's possibly the thing that we're the best at. And I feel as if it's our responsibility as artists to be doing that. So sorry, that was just responding to the first part of the question. That's fine. What was the second part? It's getting late here. Whether this transition to digital space changes the role of these art forms in society. I mean, just for example, the function of theater in society, parents, elan, is bringing together people to think together for a while to see the same thing. Have a similar experience of the world. Has that changed? I think the role is still the same. It's just different medium. It's like going to the theater as in like astronaut theater. And then going to a different theater, which is cafes in a place. It's just a different medium. So I think, yeah, I don't think the role changes. I think now it's more important because now that everyone, most of the world is sort of cocooned in their own homes. Having art online or having access to artistic experiences online is important for people to continue to stay connected to humanity, to their own humanity. It's not necessarily being stuck on a screen or even stuck with just the same people all the time or even thinking about being stuck in whatever country they're in if they are a bit more nomadic in nature. Yeah, I think the role is magnified. Performance is still about bringing people together apart. Yeah, I mean, have you ever heard of a hermit that became a performance artist or a performer? You will be surprised. Somebody could argue that being a hermit is the performance piece. Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm thinking about, you know, why we make what we make and how we make it. And what's changing now is how we're making what we're making and why we're making it. What do we need to be making? Like, I keep, that's my question to myself and to other artists we're talking with about like, what is it that we need to be doing now? And some people, some people think, some people are fast. Some people are fast makers and some people want to make something now and do it now. And some people are slow and we know that full spectrum. So, and they're going to, they're going to be different things that are going to come. I guess one thing I want to say a personal example is for example at the moment because this is an accessible space that we can be in where I can be with all sorts of different people. It's, that's made sense to me now. I'm making a work that's an online commission for somebody and part of it is investigating and including an alt text reader as an audio embedded device for blind and low vision people obviously but also that it's just central to the process and the work itself. And to me, that makes sense as a work to be making now when many more of us are spending much more time online in intersection with each other in line maybe for some people in new ways and other people familiar ways. So, it's like, okay, that makes sense to be thinking about now. And, you know, all the people, all the artists, that's what we're doing or what makes sense to be thinking about now. Brandon? I think if I'm on like Madeline's spectrum I definitely am a person who's like on the slower end to respond to what to do about the situation here. There are many opportunities and there are many kind of like gray areas to kind of figure out and I really want to take my time with it and I think and I think it's to translate performance from the physical to the digital the translation process is not a representation or replication or adaptation. I think that's something that I've already kind of feel that that's not going to work. Ya, but the early days and I think that's a long kind of journey to kind of figure out what exactly might be the case in the future. It's got to work out how to survive in the meantime, right? Exactly. I know it. I agree, I think that but it's also tricky, right? Because we're in a bit of an awkward moment between we are reacting to the emergency and now like, oh, the emergency goes on so now we have to plan ahead and that planning is where everything is a bit weird. So next question digital work being created at the moment is now much more accessible to audiences that it might have previously been inaccessible to what happens to that generosity, care whether intentional or not when we return to physical spaces? How can we not return to business and usual in this respect? I think it's an important question because across the conversation we have been developing a really keen awareness on the ethics of our practice in the current moment. So how do we sustain these dialogues? Or how do we, what are your thoughts now? Well, I think we have personal responsibility, right? I think it's a key part of what we can do from our position as practitioners and what we do with our intersection with presenters and producers about bringing that right to the first conversation that we have with the presenter and the producer about who isn't here and how can we help them to be here? How can we make an inclusive space? And I feel hopeful that those conversations will be much easier than they might have been pre-pandemic. Elizabeth, what do you think? Yeah, I think the idea of inclusivity is now more urgent than pertunan. I personally feel that the word inclusivity is just always thrown around a lot by community workers or art makers because it's something that is suddenly on everyone's radar but I think with the idea of digital work and applying inclusivity lens to it that's something that I feel a lot harder about now and I don't want people to stop thinking that hard about it anymore and then also making work more accessible to people outside of your immediate audience here I hope people will hopefully start being more generous about it even post-pandemic because I think people can see the direct impact of that generosity with the very simple and public metric like views I think that's something that artists or people in general value that visibility because I think now more than ever the threat of invisibility is very close to people's hearts or being swept under the rug or being washed over by all the worries that everyone is thinking of so I think that's one thing and then also monetizing I think monetizing it has always been an issue with artists and now that we've ventured more into the digital space hopefully to monetizing solutions there are more monetizing solutions rather than just ticket sales maybe you have things like patreon, things like Skillshare not just depending on ticket sales or taking a gamble on crowdfunding and I hope then as a result education institutions start thinking of that when they train artists or arts managers or producers or directors it's not just about selling out a full house what other ways can you make things sustainable for yourself and then when the survival needs to kick in like something like now at least you're a bit more prepared than we are yeah yeah I guess maybe when we talk about inclusivity I have two kind of angles to look at it I really like what Bedelin was mentioning before about how she was kind of like creating this environment of mutual flourishing between the people that she normally works with and also I really respect that when people or creators at this point of time are kind of being very generous with their digital work I'm also wondering whether those two things are mutually exclusive can you create a piece of work that is beneficial or equitable to everyone who has created it or as well as also kind of being generous to your audiences I think there's a model that we can explore from what we said like with Patreon or blockchain related models but the question of course is adoption and how willing people are to take away or go away from the convention of just buy a ticket and then whatever happens after that it's really up to the theatres yeah yeah that's great I think we're going to move to the last question there's a question on the floor on how do you and the machine and the audience and there's also another question about how can we inform or have an impact on leaders at the policy level so as to guarantee that in these transitions that art also has a social dimension and that people can transit and art can remain inclusive so maybe we can just tie that in and ask to the panel what is coming across is that there is an agency in artistic practice at the moment itself that can be quite pivotal for whatever future comes post-pandemic at different levels at the level of the aesthetics of performance and performance art in terms of agency, mobility, collaboration there's something there about policy making to enable another way of agency another way of impact there's also an infrastructure level how can art be funded to warrant new technologies to be embedded into the process and also some sort of social security because one of the things that has really become evident is that there is the moment that we have to transition into a crisis half of the community falls through the cracks so what do you think or how can we or let's just daydream for a while how would you envisage this or let's not call it new but this activist approach to artistic practice in the current moment sorry I didn't go ahead so this feels like in my experience it's possibly the most activated the arts community has been in this country around around engaging with political process there's always been some people who engage with politics and policy development but this period of time together has meant that that's become a huge swell and actually a huge self-education about how to do that and who are the key bodies and actually revealing the inequalities and the instabilities and revealing all the precarities and the other thing that's happened is an understanding in the arts of this shared precarity that we have with everybody in our culture who's a contract worker everybody so there's this building of understanding mutual understandings across different groups of people you know there's been a lot of talk in Australia about universal basic income and one of the particular one of the smaller parties in the country is adopting it as a platform so and a lot of talk about modern monetary theory actually so the possibility of the possibility of this instability leading to a massive cultural and political shift I mean we can hope but that does feel like and it's on the back of work of people of 40 years we're talking about people working in these spaces that now are being revealed and it's the time now so there's that feeling here I was going to say I think the idea of governments and councils and I was thinking that the solution to all of this is getting artists to upskill I find that really ironic seeing that I don't know the exact number but a lot of artists are very skilled people as it is already very well trained and well educated so to me it doesn't make sense to promote that unless you really either self-taught or have zero knowledge I think what what art leaders and policy makers need to do is to encourage more collaboration that doesn't require huge amounts of spending on travel on touring not saying that touring and travelling is not important but I think there needs to be a certain segment of funding that is dedicated to digital collaboration for example like Brandon and Madeleine you guys work heavily with digital mediums that can also be done over the internet and there have been artists who have tried who are collaborating over the internet even before Covid or who have wanted to collaborate over the internet and that brings back to the question of evaluation how do you evaluate less of an artwork over a digital sphere when you have to do yourself evaluation reports and you have to answer to your funders and you have to justify and quantify and qualify the value of your work so I think that's something that policy makers and art leaders can look at and I feel that in the wake of Covid-19 and everyone's trying to go into survival mode people have suddenly become for me personally I just feel that yes, all these communities are popping up but they're all becoming very insular certain groups of people are only talking to certain groups of people and certain groups of people are talking to other groups of people so how can that's how I feel so there's no specific demographic to these people but I just feel that everyone across the board is trying to have more agency in terms of the policy making process and the political process in relation to the arts industry in Singapore like you said there are these different specific sites online and these have erupted in the Singapore industry and I'm in a few of these sites and they will be very specific in terms of their tonality and in terms of the subject matter they talk about and I feel that as a result we have unconsciously put up these digital barriers and there isn't really much of a two-way conversation various conversation but it's not enough and I feel that is something that is reflected at policy level that are being put out in Singapore yeah that's how I feel thanks yeah I think one thing to realise about digitalisation is sometimes it leads to automation so in terms of creating jobs and roles for technicians or creators or even content even ideas and depiction of objects or things like digitalisation might lead to that so I think there's always a risk that the more digital you are going you are at some point there's a possibility that you're making yourself obsolete so I think there's a balance and I think the more informed you are about digital spaces as a creator or a technician or an audience the more proofed you are against being irrelevant or being made irrelevant in times of crisis like this I think the rush shouldn't be towards just pure digitalisation but making the human essential within that digitalisation process or the human experience yeah thank you note to end the panel thank you very much to the three of you this has been a really rewarding conversation tons of ideas, tons of provocations and we've covered really a wide array of angles to how to approach the question whether technology in performance in covid times is the enabler or the disabler and I think that to wrap things up what matters most is how we relate to technology technology itself is not something that is not transparent is made so we can think of our relationship to technology as a way to think through performance through art moving forward in the future of whatever post covid world might bring us thank you very much again thank you to you that joined us that have very generously shared your thoughts your ideas, there's also plenty of material to think through in the chat I'm sorry that we didn't get to read all the questions or all the comments but please feel free to continue the conversation via Arts Equator's Facebook or HowlRound's Facebook again my name is Felipe Cerbera thank you Brandon, thank you Madeline thank you Elizabeth, thank you Arts Equator and the backend team that has been maneuvering all of this session thank you Denise, thank you Nabila thank you Kathy thank you Vijay also from HowlRound that's it for tonight have a good evening thank you actually it's not done yet I had some ending remarks I'm so sorry go for it Nabila so for those of you I hope you haven't left yet after Felipe's effusive thank yous but I just wanted to share that this series is a continuing series in fact today is the first of the this talks called Burning Questions and in fact our next one is just next week and the topic for that one is traditional arts is it the forgotten COVID casualty and we are going to have some really interesting speakers we have a puppet master from Myanmar, we have Alina Murang a musician from Malaysia and Jacob Bohm from Australia and it will be moderated by Dance Academy Sol Tari Amin Tari as well and we really hope that you guys can join us all the information is on theartsecreta.com website as well as our social media spaces I also just quickly wanted to mention that we just kind of launched our online reviewing course so in terms of like upskilling if anyone is interested in reviewing and learning how to review we are actually doing dedicated sessions on dance reviewing, theatre reviewing and book reviewing as well so please feel free to look at our pages and apply for these and the courses are all free they are only open to Singaporean citizens and PRs because they are commissioned by the National Arts Council so we hope we can check out both the Burning Questions series as well as our reviewing courses but besides that, that's all for tonight we really thank everyone for joining us and for staying for this little bit that I'm doing at the end and we wish you