Nearly 20% of cancers can be linked to infectious agents, such as viruses. There are seven viruses now conclusively tied to human cancers. And as new viruses enter into human populations, the incidence and causes of cancer will likely change accordingly. The foundation of modern tumor virology was laid over a century ago with the discovery of a cancer-causing chicken virus for which a Nobel Prize was awarded. Another Nobel went to the guy that discovered the HPV virus was causing cervical cancer, and in his acceptance speech he mused that there may be a bovine polyoma virus, a multiple tumor virus in cattle that could be playing a role in human colon cancer, lung cancer, and breast cancer, but no polyoma virus had ever been discovered in meat until now. Polyoma viruses are a particular concern, not only because they are known to be carcinogenic, but because they can survive cooking temperatures. Now single burgers these days can contain meat from many dozens of animals. They figured it would present an ideal situation for virus hunting, so researchers at the National Cancer Institute just walked into three supermarkets and grabbed meat right off the shelf and found three different polyoma viruses in ground beef. Now just because three types of polyoma viruses are commonly detectable in food-grade ground beef doesn't necessarily mean they're causing human disease. What made this Nobel laureate suspect them? Well, for one thing, some people got cancer right where they were vaccinated for smallpox, a whole bunch of different cancers. The vaccine was harvested from the skin of calves, and so maybe there's some cancer-causing cow virus. Many people are exposed to potentially virus-contaminated meat and dairy products through their diet, but those in the industry would be even more exposed. So it would be interesting to see if these groups have higher cancer incidents, and indeed it now appears clear that those who work in the meat industry are at increased risk of developing and dying from a variety of cancers. Another reason to suspect the involvement of some kind of bovine infectious factor in colorectal cancer is the fact that countries that don't eat a lot of beef appear to have relatively low rates of colorectal cancer, and countries that all of a sudden started eating lots of meat had their rates shoot up. Mongolia appears to be the exception. Lots of red meat, yet low colon cancer rates, but there they eat yak, and maybe yaks don't harbor the same viruses. Can't you just avoid steak tartare? Even steak-cooked medium may not reach internal temperatures above 70 Celsius, and it takes temperatures above that to inactivate some of these viruses. So we would expect viruses to survive, both cooking and pasteurization. In fact, they followed up with a paper suggesting the consumption of dairy products may represent a main risk factor for the development of human breast cancer. The recent discovery of a larger number of presumably new viruses in the blood, meat, and milk of dairy cows should be investigated, since one might speculate that infectious agents present in dairy products might have a special affinity for breast cells since they came from breast cells. The fact that people with lactose intolerance, who tend to avoid milk and dairy throughout their lives, have lower rates of breast cancer and other cancers could be seen as supporting this concept. Though there are certainly other reasons dairy may increase cancer risks, such as increasing levels of the cancer-promoting growth hormone, IGF-1, or adversely affecting our gut microbiome, or for that matter maybe the plant-based milks they're drinking instead could be protective, that's the problem with population studies. You can't tease out cause and effect. It doesn't matter how many viruses are found in retail, beef, pork, and chicken, if we can't connect the dots. Can you just look for the presence of these viruses within human tumors? They've tried and found some, but even if you don't find any, that doesn't necessarily mean viruses didn't play a role. There's this viral hit-and-run theory of cancer development that suggests that certain viruses can slip in and out of our DNA to initiate the cancer, but be long gone by the time the tumor matures. So there's still a lot of work to be done, but if the link between bovine polyomaviruses and human disease pans out, the National Cancer Institute researchers envision the development of a high-potency vaccine. Just like the HPV vaccine may prevent cervical cancer from unsafe sex, one day perhaps vaccines may prevent breast and colon cancer from unsafe sirloin.


Welcome to E4M's content gem. Today we have some amazing panelists with us with very diverse backgrounds and creating content in different content genres but also with a very very strong similarity that is that all of these panelists have successfully built a profession out of their passion. We have Atul Khatli, I just got to know, he is a fellow computer engineer who decided to follow his passion in stand-up comedy while he was already running his other businesses at the age of 40. We have Dhwani Manushali who I have first seen become India's singing sensation from just a young kid trying to make his mark just few years back when I met her. We have Larissa with us who is a very popular travel and beauty blogger and favorite amongst a lot of brands. And we have last but not the least, Nikhil also known as Mumbik Nikhil who is leading the vlogging space in India and has inspired so many people in India to take up vlogging as a career. Nikhil also known for his love for bikes and travelling I think must be really waiting for the lock to end but as I can see you are on the road. He is already in the car so that's awesome. One step into it. And we have just been joined by the president of Dhombibali, Nikhil. It's going to be very difficult to talk to him with a straight face. I don't think me and Nikhil have ever spoken on a serious topic ever in our life. How are you guys doing? I know it's very all of you guys create content are used to create content in a very different background. But just each one of you can you just take us through your experience about creating content during current times while being locked up at home. I know possibly Nikhil is the only person who is still kind of staying safe and moving out and creating content but I'm sure rest of them are fully locked up at their home and still creating content. How is this impacted your entire game and the pressures that you have because it's not that you can take a break and not upload content for a month or two months. You have to be regular with the content and that's the basic steps of being a content creator. Nikhil, you want to start? Yeah, sure. I mean, I realized that I'm making more content than I am. And for me, I think it's kind of going back to basics. This is how exactly I started. I used to be a bartender. I had no idea about how to create content. I had no idea about any equipment or anything in particular. I used to do everything. So everything that I do or I started doing on YouTube was through learning from YouTube. So this is exactly how I started. And initially it was like a little tough because we were very used to the team around and going to the office, going to studios, shooting, going to Thane and shoot the project stuff. So initially it was a bit difficult. But then since I started making videos, I realized I'm posting almost like a video every day. And I'm having fun doing it. I'm enjoying my time. I'm in constant call with all the members of my team and I've been discussing stuff on what to do. One thing that I've noticed is that I'm refurbishing my old content too because in this period of time what has happened is I've gained a lot of followers because everybody is at home right now. So for all this new followers, what I'm doing is I'm posting my old content and then I'm posting new content too. So there's a difference of like, you know, if I'm posting four videos a week, I'm posting probably two for my older content and two for my viewer. And I've realized my older content, they're doing better than the ones that I'm making right now. Because the whole viewer audience might not have consumed or seen possibly the old content and for them it's as good as new. Exactly, exactly. And I've been doing this for six years so I don't think I'm going to have enough content to survive this lockdown. Yeah, it's been fun. I'm enjoying the process. I'm learning new things. I'm having fun. Larisa, I know you also make a lot of travel vlogs so that has completely stopped for you.  You'll have to unmute yourself. Yeah, but still making beauty videos, sitting at home, make up tutorials, those would have still been easier. But how are you coping right now creating content? I am actually trying to expand my genre now. Definitely, you know that I do a lot of travel and that's like my major genre. But I've always kept like a balance of other lifestyle things also. So beauty and fashion, all those things were always there and also like a lot of art. So I haven't had the chance to do all of this while I was travelling. Although this is a part of me and this is how I started my YouTube journey by doing DIY projects and things like that. So because I'm home now I have the opportunity to do all of those again and people are loving it. And I think right now everybody is picking on two different things and being diverse. Everybody is becoming a chef, everybody is doing a workout and everybody is enjoying it. I think the audience has also gotten very sensitive towards content creators also like most of the audience. And they are accepting different genres as well. So I think it's also very important that since I've always built my brand as Larissa Disa, not just travel videos. I think that has helped as well. So whatever content I'm putting out the people are loving it. And it has definitely because like Nikunj said, because people are at home they are watching a lot of stuff. There's a lot of consumption of social media and followers are increasing like crazy. So I think during this time especially it's better if we create more and more content and it's possible because we're at home. And that will, I think it's a time to create a mark on the audience and to create a mark in the industry also. So I think we all should be utilising it very well. Yeah, yeah.  And I know that initially you also started creating content on your YouTube channel. And before you started making huge massive large scale music videos. But I mean for you, it's not, you can't technically right now go out and produce music videos. And so you can still create songs sitting at home. You can still dub songs sitting at home. But how are you seeing right now? I mean obviously you have a pressure that you can't be putting out music videos every now and then. And how are you maintaining, how are you just being active on the Instagram and the other platforms? Like Alissa said, I mean people are, everyone's doing cooking. People are, you know, making, they're updating about their own lives in general. So that's what I'm doing on social media. I can't do YouTube videos on, you know, since I don't create that much content. I'm just, you know, a Singapore musician. So for me doing a music video every week doesn't make sense. So I tried to, so we did this one song called, I think in the start of quarantine. I recorded at home, we shot it at home. But music videos, when you watch them, you want that larger than life. You want to see something, you want to see a story. And that's not possible to shoot at home.  Primarily on your Instagram platform. Yeah. Just on a personal level to engage with the audience. I can see the fancy YouTube plates very well. I didn't realize this is the only place in my room which has light, you know. Super. Nikhil, how are you? I know, again, like I said, possibly amongst everyone on the panel, you are the only person still on the road creating content, thankfully staying safe. And how has it done the current time for you? To be honest, when I came back from London and the first log in was announced to 1.0, I was like, it's a little bit, it's a 21 days break. Let me not do anything. Let me just relax, walk out, lose weight, transformation and all that.  But then in one minute when I'm running and if you just shoot something, but like others, I live alone. Like there's nobody in my house. Okay. So I was like, hey, so what can I do? What can I possibly do? So I started talking about lockdown and then I went back to my old videos. I was doing my old video review and then I noticed like for everyone else, the subscriber was increasing. And I realized that this is the perfect time to do something new. Because as a vlogger, our job is to make a connection with the audience. And this is the best time. Everybody's at home and they're forced to listen to me. I won't listen to them because I have nothing else to do. That is what I tell them to follow me. Sorry? I won't listen to them because I tell them to follow me. Also, I think because they are locked up and this is possibly one of the only ways for them to get entertained. See a lot of content right now. Super. Akul sir, just I think before you answer this question, I want you to tell me personally, I wanted to know that you have been running your own business and it's very, very, we don't see a lot of examples where people change their career path at the age of 40, 45 because people think more like when you're in 20s or 30s, that's the right time to decide what you want to do.  Yeah, so actually for people who don't know, I was the CEO of an IT company for close to like 25 years. So at the age of 44, you could call it midlife crisis or probably pressure from wife. As she said, do something more. So it was a new year resolution, first giant 2012. I said, I want to do something different with my life. So I signed up for a comedy open mic night. I was the funny guy in my friend's circle and all that.  And I need to try a hand at stand-up comedy. So the stand-up comedy, you know, I had just come in very new. This is eight years back. And yeah, so I just went up for an open mic. I did very well there. And from there, you know, the first time from, you know, 25 years working in Laidikam, you know, coming on stage meeting clients and some of you are already stage performers. So you would know that going on stage and, you know, entertaining. So I got really addicted to it. And for four years, I did both my CEO Guinea as well as stand-up comedy. Then in 2016, I gave it all and became a full-time stand-up comedian. So that is my small short journey from CEO to as a safe CEO from chief executive officer to chief entertainment officer, CEO to CEO. And lockdown has actually been good for me. So actually just like Nikhil even I was actually in Toronto. I had a full one month tour of 18 cities in Canada and America starting from 13th March to 13th April. So I reached there on 11th March in Toronto with Mr. Donald Trump's assurance that it's just a flu which will go away in five days.  I came back on 14th March. My entire tour was cancelled. All shows are cancelled. And as I probably quickly realized that stand-up comedy, I think as a genre would be the last to start. You know, first they'll start Bollywood. They'll start other things, you know, because anyway, the government doesn't like us because we talk very anti-government and if it don't like us. So we'll go to the last. So we had to go something at home. So I started doing these things called only positive news. So what happened from 11th to 13th March when I was at home in Toronto and watching entire world crashing, you know, closing down borders, closing down. I consider myself to be a very strong person mentally. But I was feeling anxious. I was feeling worried. I think it's the end of the world. So I started doing this. So I came back on Indian 14th March and from 15th March, every day I said, let me search for any positive news happening around. So I started the series called only positive news. And I think yesterday was a 74th episode. I do it every day.  And I did that. So actually, because it gave me a lot of routine to the day because me being an old man from an X thing, you know, I can't be sitting at home like a lot of the young content creators, you know, just, you know, I like to get up at eight o'clock and read my newspaper and do my work. So that gave me actually some kind of normal, you know, got normalcy to my own routine. So I have been, I mean, I also did a lot of other small scale. So I was, because we ask as comedians, we are never too much on social media. We only use it to connect with your fans and, you know, honestly to sell tickets. You don't create content for, for Instagram.  So for me, it was difficult, but I quickly learned it. I learned two days. I learned an editing software and I started editing my software and I think all that, but I've been very, very happy and lucky. Thanks to these, the topics, I got some few brand deals also on my only positive news. And yeah, I think I'm quite, in fact, I'm worried if the lockdown will end, if people go out, we'll sit at home and watch our content. I felt the same.  And the entire motive is to go and, and the kick is to do live gigs. Yeah. But do you feel the pressure of getting numbers on Instagram or all your other platforms? Because for that, you will have to create content. You will have to create regular content. Yeah, yeah. So I think you have to create regular content. So not really, there's not a pressure. See, I think all creators are generally like a thing that if you go out searching for followers, then they won't come. If you do something which is close to your heart, which you really enjoy doing it, because other, the followers can easily know whether you're doing it or you're really true to your heart. So I think I've also added quite a, I've added close to 25,000 followers just in the lockdown and very quickly. And, and that was because my only positive news, I came from the heart. It isn't my own style. And also other than that, quickly we have started learning to do zoom calls. So I've like, every Friday I have a 10 p.m. like a comedy show that's getting in hundred people selling tickets. So that's how we are making money because as I said, we, comedians will have to get used to this format of doing comedy over here because we're going to start last maybe, I don't know. Whenever the, I think only when a vaccine really comes out will people really be, you know, going to sit in a crowded room and watch us. Yeah, that was my question for the latest stage about the live gigs, but we can pick it up right now.  Going to them, I know the rest of Nikhil, Nikunj and Larissa also, they also engage in a lot of college events, but those are not primarily their revenue drivers, right? Their revenues, primarily right now as of now, does not, I mean, they don't go and sell their meat and meat buses or they, most of them don't go and bill for the corporate, sorry, the college gigs.  Do you think the home gigs, like Atul, you said you have been doing home gigs right now, are you selling tickets? Do you think people are coming and buying tickets and that's a habit which we might see in the post-corona days also? This is, this will be learning for all of us, right? I mean, because Larissa also does on-ground makeup workshops and he can evaluate now, if he can move that business completely online and do online workshops, online master classes, Nikunjan Shar will come up with few ideas and he's right now really active in diversifying his revenues into different other businesses also, he's a business running in New York already. And yeah, so you just want to take us through with your experience doing these live gigs as of now. Yeah, so honestly doing live gigs on Zoom was a challenge because you know when you're running a musician where you can sing, you know we as a comedian I want to hear the laughter, I want to see people laugh, it cannot be I need the mics to be on, I need the videos to be on and what happens when you have a lot of videos and mics on then somebody's blender is going behind, somebody's having food, somebody's talking to his child or child is coming, interrupting, so those are the challenges initially of trying to the technology part of getting used and now it felt like we're going back to our open mic days where you're actually trying something new so that was one challenge but now we have figured it out, like I've been getting I've entertained I think close to like 1000 people already on Zoom right now and I'm enjoying it, more the fact that so we keep 25-30 videos on mics, let's tell people that you mute it if you're sitting in a noisy area so setting the expect telling, educating the audience right in the beginning that this is going to work, but I think as Dhoni will also probably agree nothing like a live performance we're all waiting to go back on stage that's a different side of you can engage, we just have to do live, you can at least see the amount of people that are there 1000 people or 100 people I just have to go live and I don't even know like how many people are watching you, how many people are watching and what's happening so that gets a little weird and there's no revenue out of it, I mean just like brands have started to get in touch and stuff, but there's no real there's no real there's no real, no no I'm sure he's doing a ticketed thing but I'm not have you done any online events right now in the past few months I mean since the lockdown started you're asking me no Dhoni, Dhoni so I did a lot of lives with different porters and stuff and my own thing and I did with Vodafone and Wink and stuff so some of most of them are free so you can't there's no revenue out of it that gets a little difficult do you think right now that's a future which can hold in terms of live events concerts for musicians I know obviously everyone loves going to a ground and interacting with the audience but do you think that's an habit which people can develop over a period of time that they can just sit at home buy tickets to what concerts do you see that as a trend? I feel like the experience would be totally different and I do not anchorate something like that but given the circumstances I mean that's something you know that will have to be inculcated and you know you can't because we are in corona right now you can't have public gatherings so might as well you know have a set up like that it should start because then revenue for musicians and you know people gets really difficult to generate because we rely on shows yeah and I think as a consumer also while you are going to see the performer while you are going to see the content but it's the experience also yeah that's more important you know Nikhil do you have you seen I don't want you to mention just about your own brand deal but as an industry have you seen a slow down or have you seen an uptake in the brand deals in the last 2-3 months because suddenly I have started getting a lot of calls from brands and agencies because practically the only people who can still create ads who can still create branded content sitting at home are digital influencers because they are so used to they already have their lights they already have a camera they already know how to edit the videos which they are struggling while dealing with Bollywood stars also because they don't yeah without making it any controversial but yeah so Nikhil have you seen any uptake in the brand deals or have you seen a slow down just like the rest of the industry for the lockdown 1.0 there was a slow down but then I think after lockdown 2.0 work has been great we can see new kind of works coming not the first most of the work were like you know about stuff now it's different now it's mostly digital so you can say 20% them but not much because we create so much of content that's not an issue but yeah we are seeing a change we are seeing a different change which is good or bad that I can say if I if I sound selfish then I would say that digital media for youtubers and for instagramers it's a great news because we can create content selfish sitting at home sitting in the car anywhere and for vloggers especially we can the whole story whole script revolves around my day only I just have to make my day little bit interesting and everything and fit in no yeah Nikunj how are the brand deals or overall revenues in last month I think the amount of work has increased revenue wise also but you know the amount that we used to get generally for a video has dipped down a bit but the number of work has increased that's what has happened for me at least thankfully we got a lot of work and there is a lot of work piled up and I have seen a lot of new brands trying this initially there were only a set of brands which used to do digital marketing in the recent past I have worked with a lot of new brands and they have enjoyed this I guess they have seen the change of trying digital media and getting that probably getting that reach for instance I recently promoted an app which kind of you know after my video coming out the app was trending number one on iOS for like a week so they they kind of love doing it there are a lot of new coming brands which are coming right now which is best I guess initially the brands which used to come are the only ones which used to come they are not specifically for you and I kind of see this increasing because I think they should by now get to know that you know Shahrukh Khan is promoting Sandro I am sure everybody knows he is not the Ryan Sandro and someone like me or Nikhil not Nikhil I am sure everybody knows he is not the Ryan Sandro Nikhil Nikhil you are on mute I am driving a Hyundai car I think also what has happened is a lot of brands digital marketing was just an option or they were exploring it has now become a mandatory thing because they can only spend they can do right now they can't do there is no use for them to go and spend I mean I remember the time probably like you know I started like 6 years ago YouTube used to send us on this thing called speed dating to the brands and we used to sit with the brands and tell them what digital marketing is so it will come a long way from then Lalisa how was it for you in terms of the last three months compared to how it was earlier it is definitely not the same as before and brands are very particular to who they are working with so because I think their budgets have all gone down and like he said I mean everybody is like there is no budget now so we have to settle for a lower cost but what I have seen the kind of change I have seen is that brands are working with lesser creators now they are being very picky and very choosy when it comes to their work they are also doing ads through creators so like I recently did an ad for a sanitary brand and like the whole production was supposed to be done by me and it was like a proper ad that they wanted for their stuff so you know I think I don't know how I should put it but I think brands know who they have to work with at this time to get the proper return on investment so I don't know about the others but it's all right, 20% dip like Nikhil said but work has increased definitely because right now like I said we have to make a mark our unbranded stuff is more but revenue wise so it's all right nothing like bad but nothing great either I think thankfully all of you guys are in that field every field is every industry is affected but possibly this is the field which is least affected between brands and we are all of us are very lucky so it has not impacted in terms of revenues Nikhil Larisa like have you guys seen I'm not talking about the youtube adsense revenue as a community so we are keeping this question limited to the brand deals because we all know how that has affected a little more than 20% one is clearly promoting youtube right now now I can see both the youtube no I can see the gold silver play but it's a better frame now usually I have to wear a youtube t-shirt not a t-shirt just a t-shirt and you are done the next time we have a chat the next time we have a chat I make big music videos I don't create a lot of content I don't make a lot of youtube videos the only place in my room that gets light and this doesn't impact me anymore I'm fully stuck this is the first time I'm meeting Dhoni but you know a year ago someone made a meme on me where I took off my beard and placed Dhoni in front of me I remember I was so hilarious I was true to it someone just made it but I felt shit we look alike I'll never shave Dhoni are you actively doing brand deals right now I know there have been brand integrations in your music videos earlier brand deals I know you can't do those deals right now because you are not producing full-fledged music videos but are you engaging with brands on instagram are you engaging with brands on instagram I'm open to that and it's happening also but I'm not doing like I did Vodafone but since I don't do a regular video in terms of youtube and stuff I'm not like a full-fledged influencer so that is not as much as these guys do but I'm open to this and it's happening like on instagram and the small deals how many followers do you have on instagram right now 2.7 million 2.7 and on youtube 1.49 million something Dhoni just saying I'm not actively doing 2.7 million 2.7 million and 1.7 million and 2 plates from youtube at the back I'm going to remove the only now but I'm glad that you have put up that mic for the finale unpaid gig performance that you are going to do that is not going to happen I realize 2.7 million is more than anybody in this zoom call right now on instagram yeah thanks man I don't know anything sir I mean has brand deals been you have been doing actively brand deals I know you do a lot of branded corporate shows but beyond on-ground performances have you been doing brand deals in the past and if yes how are the last 3 months been how has your experience been dealing with brand deals so for me primarily I'm a live artist so my revenues earlier used to come from branded corporate shows and also the public shows and the tours which used to do and brand was a very small component of it you know the branded I would say social media deals used to be very small but now since covid obviously that percentage has become slightly more and obviously my live work has come but coming to what everybody I can see that when I speak to my team who handles my brand work they say that first of all you see a lot of brands are pulled out because of the uncertainty about not knowing how their own internal their markets is number one number two the approval processes have become longer so earlier if it used to be the agency and probably the marketing head would decide now it's going right to the CEO who is saying I want to see every penny we are spending in this pandemic yeah this is happening like the return of like you know to get back to you it takes too much taking a lot of time and I also see like for example like one of the biggest spenders I think is because of surrogate marketing used to be alcohol company they have actually pulled out you know at least most of them have pulled out because for three months their shops were closed and things like that now hopefully now with alcohol opening up and you know maybe the festivities hopefully we should maybe see those coming up because yeah yeah what other industries like possibly also know about this like people are not going out at least during the lockdown time to go and buy our bikes or going and buying our cars so I think in addition to alcohol possibly all other industries which are not into essential items have obviously seen a drop in their avenues and obviously it doesn't make sense for them to start spending our monies okay my another question which I wanted to ask is now during these times right there is so much of a social responsibility on each one of you to engage into right meaningful conversations with the fans with the people you have and obviously there's a pressure about that also there are causes that you want to speak about but you see so many things which are not being done in a right way throughout the world and you want to participate in those in those times but every individual can't be talking about 20 topics 30 topics right even if you choose a topic to support you will also get a backlash that why you're not talking about topic be your topic see but at the same time you can't just ignore it right you have that responsibility on you to pass on the right messaging especially during how to stay safe during these times how are you inculcating that into your content right now is that your top priority are you thinking what is the kind of communication you want to give to the fans throughout your content Nikul how are you taking care of this I don't know man this is probably like the most difficult thing to do actually for me because you know all my life I've done whatever I felt like doing without saying it out loud because that's what I feel I feel that you're doing charity you should not talk about it and I've done that you know me knows me that you know how much I've done but now the problem is if you don't say anything that means that you're not standing against it you know there are countless things that I'm doing right now too but you know I always feel that if you not talk about it for instance you know something that backfire to me was like you know that I go to LA a lot and I collaborate with the creators out there and whatever is happening there and I kind of shared something from there and people like oh what did you do like you know you know who are you and stuff like that so I'm honestly learning on how to deal with it and you know sometimes I feel that even though you're not doing anything you're doing a lot like you know making people laugh at this time is also a good thing to do he's sharing positive news which is amazing you know I'm going to start doing it right now I'm not seeing it yet but that's exactly that I want to see right now because no matter what you do no matter what you see no matter what you talk to right now is talking about that it's over it's over and it's so negative like the best way to deal with it is to see good positive you know it's to meet positive people you know I remember calling Nikhil a lot and we just discussed content and not like you know whatever is happening right now so I want to be around with people who are very positive I want to share positivity I want to make people laugh and that's I feel that I'm doing my job and I don't want to be told by anyone that you know you're not doing this for that this for that whatever like you know I've done a lot of stuff people who know me know me I do a lot more than anybody who shows out so I'm very content with that like I'm just coping up on how to deal with people who think that I'm not doing for now it's okay for me I'm sure I mean that's very insightful I mean we also deal with what influences it's very tricky right I mean you worldwide there's so many things which which are not right but you can only choose the causes that you want to talk about or like you said support them by not even being vocal on social media and then just do that and I know few of the things that you have done in the past Nikhil but I mean you create almost everyday vlogs right how do you do you do you have that pressure on your mind when you're creating content or you're just really just staying honest with yourself and whatever you want to do see most of the time I create whatever I want to create but there used to be a pressure but then with the time I've stopped caring about what pressure giving me lockdown the thing which I wanted to talk to my audience was about the labours the pain they were going through but then realized that 40% of my video was about the labours and then 2% was about youtube versus tiktok and then the whole conversation was about youtube and tiktok there was nothing about this country let me just not talk about anything let me just do it so what I did I just went to demart and I made this kit if you want to distribute if you want to give money out you can give rations out you know because during this lockdown what we have seen is that the salary people they were not giving salary and they have this thing that they will not ask money from anyone so I had this team they were looking for those such people so we made this kit and per kit cost around 500 rupees I made this whole video and if you don't want to give money to anybody because if you feel like drinking you can do something else get this kit and I am talking about myself I am talking about others so you know you can get this kit and you can give it to whomever you think needs it so this kind of content I am doing sometimes the audience they just want you to talk about it whether you care whether you don't care they don't even care just tell them just tell them usually I try to stay away from religious political matter I don't even say how it works yeah I would like to add here first of all I would request all the audience please first of all don't have too many expectations from us because we are human beings we are also going through animations like I will tell you when this the cyclone unfun happened and I wrote about West Bengal and the next day I started getting hate from Orissa even in Orissa then some guy said the government is taking over to make some power fight why don't you tell me I don't know so just chill guys we are human beings we have also families why are you not donating to charity because I have to feed my family I can't be feeding migrants when I don't feed my own children so the people should realize we also have families, we have lives we are also human beings going through emotions we will talk about it when we want to talk about it we are very passionate about it honestly there is so much fake news I actually talk about the news only after the third day after the read facts and figures and actually something else happened like like when this that unfortunate incident of that Kerala elephant happened within two days it went from an animal to a communal issue and also one more thing which is a fact I have discussed a lot of the comedians even the crowd I think because of the even the audience because of the corona I have become more sensitive there is more hate while coming because they have more free time they have given everyone 4G but they have not given them the demand so people are attacking and things like that so actually some of us are dealing with those issues about how trolling as overall has increased people are just over sensitive you say it's a beautiful day in Bombay somebody will say boss it's hot in somewhere else why the hell are you so happy about a beautiful day but probably I am old so I just say my mind so I don't listen to anybody I am with blind and and I generally don't worry about brands I have to say what I want tomorrow if my brand team says that they don't say something about tiktok versus so and so youtube will get affected tiktok can you imagine we have a really pandemic going on sorry to say but the biggest issue in the last 15 days was youtube versus tiktok I am like bro I remember I had a personal experience this was really funny and this tiktok and then I put it up on facebook and people were like why are you cross posting tiktoks are supposed to go down it's gonna block I am like what is wrong with you I mean it's crazy but Dhoni what do you feel about the again if you have spoken about this topic and not to not to detail it out further but not talking about particular platforms every platform has their own audiences every platform there are different kinds of content being made on every platform do you think there can ever be a deficit or about a good content or a bad content like people are saying that content is not good enough Nikunji is very keen to I think answer these questions I am just trying to listen this bad network but I am just saying as content creators all of you guys do you think there is a line where somebody can say this is a good content this is a bad content it's pretty much subjective I mean you can never say what is good content or bad content of course there are like guidelines to what you can do there is a limit to what you can do but it can never be like some people might like some content some people might not it's never like I don't like it unless something like I think I think India as a whole has a very big population so there is an audience for literally everything and I think that's the best part about it so that is the reason why social media we started doing things on social media because we were accepted as we were so I think that's been a plus point for all of us and although I personally feel that everybody has gotten onto the TikTok bandwagon suddenly because of the lockdown and everybody is interested I have also it does help to get an audience to your YouTube and your Instagram so I have been using it it's a very creative platform I totally agree and it doesn't just have cringy stuff it has a lot of educational stuff a lot of hacks a lot of cool things on TikTok but I somehow feel that I mean if you are making a video on TikTok the same thing shouldn't go on Instagram and the same thing shouldn't go on YouTube I mean every platform has its own beauty and I think it should stay like that because TikTok is more of like quick things and that's the whole thing because we are scrolling continuously and that makes more sense because you know there is no feed as such I mean there is a feed but TikTok is more about like just scrolling scrolling going through a lot of stuff from everybody and Instagram is not about that Instagram is more about community building and it's about a particular person and the brand that person is built around him or her and you know just posting something on TikTok and then posting the same thing on Instagram doesn't really make sense because Instagram is not built for the kind of that's on TikTok I feel this and I've been following that sure Nikunj I mean from your point of view I know see again I don't want to make it this about YouTube and TikTok this is not about that this is about different platforms it can be Instagram it can be YouTube versus Instagram it can be YouTube versus Twitter but I know that you create different content for different platforms but is that a focus area or you are okay repurposing the content and just putting it out on different platforms I'll tell you what no matter how much you hate the platform which I do by the way honestly I don't like it because there's a lot of cringe in it I hate the platform but I hate the cringe which is there in the platform I love like TikTok which is doing in US like you know I was in LA for a month and you know all the artists that I wanted to collaborate with saying you know all the biggest artists all the comedians that I kind of grew up watching saying Tim Bass, Adam and all you know I reached out to them and they were like let's do something on TikTok I was like what you want to do a video with me on TikTok and everybody is on TikTok right now I was in Anaheim last year for VidCon and the biggest topic on VidCon was TikTok and I heard like someone got paid a million dollar to post a 15 second video on TikTok think for it now a million dollar no matter who it is even if he's like the biggest actor in the world but getting paid a million dollar for a 15 second video is damn it's a lot and I've been doing a lot when I was there I did a lot of TikTok and I kind of gained a lot of audience from the west so I'm trying to concentrate you know I'm making different content on Instagram on YouTube and on TikTok I'm concentrating on comedy from the west because I think it's it kind of gives me a kick because you have done a lot I've been doing this for the past 6 years and I'm not saying it's not exciting but I kind of miss the hustle you know I kind of miss posting a video and thinking about whether it will do well or no you know just constantly watching a video what if it doesn't do well that feeling that is the feeling that I've missed you so I'm trying to concentrate that's what I'm doing on TikTok that's about it sure but do you create separate content on TikTok right now? yeah I do Nikhil what about you Nikhil is getting into TikTok by the way yeah right for me there is no love or hate for TikTok I just don't like the way it works I'm very happy with YouTube when I'm satisfied with Instagram and I don't have no problem people creating videos on TikTok see it's your personal choice if you like TikTok go create videos over there and if you don't like TikTok don't create videos over there and it's your ID upload it on YouTube whatever you want to do you will find your people we have 140 crore people we have 3 cities whatever you want to see at the end of the day what matters is how long you will sustain because there is going to be a saturation point TikTok's saturation point comes very fast YouTube's saturation point doesn't come because there is a lot of work involved let me give you an example there is a gym you will take a year to make a decent body there is a gym too you will take 3 days to make a decent body but then you will have no value for that decent body I think I will give you an example 3 days TikTok is like if you make a good video you will go viral then what they do to make connections you have to again come on Instagram so I think the TikTokers who are doing well they eventually have to come on YouTube and Instagram but the YouTubers who are doing well they don't have to necessarily go on TikTok or Instagram my definition is for me if you have to call yourself a creator and at this joke somewhere what if suddenly Instagram is banned boom you are not a model anymore eh you should be a creator in every that is what I feel I know if everything starts right now I can still create a good story I can be a writer, I can be an actor I direct my own stuff I can do some kind of work anywhere in the industry that I am created that is what I feel that is absolutely right I totally agree with Neh Kunj long long ago when we all started our videos by recording them ourselves we have been the production person we have been directors, we have been writers we have been through it all and I think the ones who are creative only are actually surviving at this moment during this lockdown because they know that if the lockdown is alone then we can still make content they have that confidence in themselves so I think if a kind of platform or anything if a person is if a creator is creative enough knows their stuff and especially since we have done it for so many years we know what works so I think that is the best thing about just I forgot what the question was I think like Nikhil rightly said it just staying honest to what you want to do if you love a platform just create content if you don't like it don't create content that's it and there's an audience on every platform Atul do you also try to study all of these which are the platforms that I should be do you go into analytics do you go and absorb all of these platforms that I should be creative everywhere do you feel that pressure on you? there is no pressure like I'm not on TikTok with my kind of format with my kind of age also I don't know who will watch you on TikTok you will be surprised you will have a middle audience right now I'm not on TikTok and I have seen every platform has its own audience has its own things for example I'll tell you my only positive is a very big hit on Instagram and Facebook some on YouTube people are not liking YouTube my audience wants my stand-up videos they want like an 8 minute stand-up clip they don't want to basically gyaan nahi chiun ko that's the thing so every audience platform I think has its own nuances and you have to play that platform accordingly it's great if your material can work across all the platforms that's actually a very good thing I think let's shift it from TikTok to Tinder sorry I think we just got a message from them we just have 5 minutes left I didn't even know my last question which is a very cliche question but I still would ask because I know all of you guys and I know how everyone of each one of you have really hustled and worked really hard over the last few years and made a mark and completely on your own for all the aspiring creators even if they are 15 or if they are 40 who want to get into this game do you want to convey a message to them how has your journey been and what are the things they should be doing to just follow your roadmap and probably come closer to what you can do for example for Nikhil personally what Nikhil has done in the vlogging space years back I'm sure Nikunj will agree with me years back nobody was taking vlogging as a serious career in the space people were looking at a lot of people in the west who were big bloggers out there who were Indian bloggers so they never took it seriously that this can be considered as a full fledged career but what he has done has inspired so many people to now take vlogging as a career previously I think years back people just used to say it as a hobby or not as a profession as such do you have a message all of you guys just one two liners we have just four minutes left Nikhil let's start with you see if anybody wants to start a career on this platform is it simple or do your research ask yourself what you like to do and just start you will fail not many people know this vlogging was not my first youtube channel it was something else so you will fail and then you will succeed and then you will find the right spot for you keep trying do you have a message I just want to say I just want to say I am a singer I started with youtube you guys helped me a lot my first video I did this carpool mashup and I came to you guys then the journey started from there so I think you just need to believe in yourself that you can do a certain thing just have that confidence in you and keep practicing keep getting better on a daily basis I just took it by the day and maybe that will help you because everyone has their own paths I can't tell you what works for me your story is going to be completely different no I know obviously with the excess of resources and what you want to do with the passion area you can't sideline the hustle and the hard work because when I know in your case in those times also when you were launching your first music videos but you start your day at 7-8 in the morning and go through so many you have to train you have to figure what you are good at where your tone lies and what you can do with your voice where you can stand if you want to be a pop star or if you want to just be a playback singer you have to figure that all of that out Mr. Bijunik I think the most important thing is to be unique as long as you are okay see I feel it's quite different for me I had my ethics and my morals in the start when I started when I thought about making this I knew how to grow faster but I didn't want to choose that part I chose the longer part because I wanted to be in this for a longer time be my style I don't watch a lot of content actually I don't watch content at all because I feel there are only two things that can happen if you watch content if you don't like it and you see what the f**k is working in this era why are people watching this which is not going to help me is that if I like it a lot even if I don't want to my subconscious mind start to imitate it I started making videos that's when I realised I should stop watching today and the most important thing is to start there if I go back on time I realised that the first video that I made on BUNIC was shot and I edited 3 months ago and I showed it to people and they said it was not good enough and then one day I got done and I posted it it has 3 million users right now but I realised I wasted those 3 months listening to people who don't know because nobody knows anything about anything you just have to post content don't do a lot of research and I am sure there is also a way to go about it but I think you should like doing it have fun while doing it because when you have fun people see that people can see it from your face but you are having fun doing it and you are not just doing it to get the views you are not just stressed about what people like and the one get away is a simple question if this video comes on your feed and you are in it, would you laugh I make funny videos that's what I am saying would you have fun, would you watch it would you laugh if the answer is yes, then make it and post it I am sure you will find your audience sure, Larisa I think right now if someone has to become a creator like right now who wants to start a career with content creation they have to be actually out of the box and create something really unique because there are so many already and to be out there and to make a mark you need to be something very different and offer something different for the audience because beauty creators are amazing vloggers are amazing travelers are amazing so I think the only way to do that is to put your own style to it and many people forget that and they try to copy others that's what even I did in the beginning of my youtube and now they are just like super cringy weird videos but I realized when I started adding my own style to it, that's when people started loving it more even in my vlogs and even in my videos there is a little bit of humor in it and that is what people connected to more than just being the typical girly girl, I am not like that so people actually started liking who I was after I started putting my own essence to it so I think adding your own masala and you know doing your own thing adding your style to it as cliched as it may sound is super important and second would be being super consistent obviously and right now I think with this time posting every single day is advisable no I think absolutely true if you are looking up to someone and start creating content in that space you can't fake it for long someday you will lose that essence and people will figure it out one more thing is collaborate a lot the best example is mostly same method Prajakta did it the best collaborate with whoever has a similar vision with you but just collaborate a lot yeah yeah that role works and I also have to add to what Nikunj said about you know growing fast and how I think most of us know and what will go viral we all know it but we don't want to do it because that's not our style so I think that is also very important that if you are going viral then that viral virality has to stay there so if that doesn't work then you are gone like you come up and just like you are there and gone so I think to create an impact you might be back but I am saying yeah you can't be known you might be back Pooja is alive sir I mean what is your message not only for young creators but not to say you are old but I am just saying people in the 40-50 year old segment also who still might be very passionate but probably just because of the society pressure they would have figured out you are talking about yourself or what good people you are talking about yourself I am younger than you I am older than all of you guys but anyway I would say that first of all first of all follow your passion be true to yourself be original I think the key word is especially in comedy don't try to copy comedians from the west and try to bring it here be very original at least for comedy I tell people come out and watch live stand up comedy don't watch comedy on Netflix with some you know Bill Burr is doing or some Dave Sheppell is doing in an American or UK context see what Indian comedians are doing more from a comedy perspective and also for creators the entry level barriers are very less to be very honest all of us have started with just a phone and recording things at home people where are examples of just people shooting from a phone started all with a phone camera and blue and just it was our own imagination our writing which you know where we are today so I think entry level barriers are less but be original be consistent be very true to yourself and I said don't do what excites you not what you will get your followers and followers will automatically that's right I think this was very insightful it was very insightful for me everyone who was watching it also you guys are each one of you are fairly active in doing Instagram live for me it was the first time doing a webinar not sitting at a conference and doing it well I hope but it was fun we had fun can't wait to see the person just few weeks more all Instagram followers of Dhani please come to us also go you just have to imagine me without the beard you just have to imagine me without the beard I cannot unsee that anymore I am not sure but just imagine me without the beard and follow me I cannot unsee that I will tell you the kitchen I will find it somewhere I saw that and I was like what I will get the e-forum team to put it on the article no we will be revising again super thank you so much thank you thank you Larissa thank you bye thank you bye


Welcome, welcome, everyone. Good to be back here in California every time I come out here. I travel around the world a lot but I really live in Utah in a monastery and it's not really a typical monastery with a lot of rules and rituals and old theology. We don't have any vows. We don't really have highly structured days. We're very spontaneous. We live a very spontaneous life. And also, instead of having vows and rituals, we just have two guidelines. No people pleasing and no private thoughts, which fit very well with the course of miracles. Makes for some lively breakfast and lunchtime conversations. So just sitting around there crunching and munching away, you know, people. I want to talk about it. I'll tell you what I'm feeling right now. And it's really, really beautiful to be able to express your emotions with the willingness to let go of projecting, with the willingness to really take responsibility and release the attack prompts and agree with us. I had a retreat in Spain on the island of New York. Sometimes people have like weekend retreats or whatever. I had a six-week retreat. You really get to know each other if you're together for six weeks and you're practicing these principles. There was a lot of life-changing experiences of people breaking through a lot of their grievances. And we really love collaborations. Once you start to forgive and you start to release your mind from all these grievances, you have all this energy, all this God-given energy. And it's fun to collaborate. That's why musicians like to jam and actors and actresses like to come together and people just like to come together and play together. And so we do a lot of that.


All right, I'm excited to be here today with the founders of the whole heart brotherhood Jeremy Jonathan Jesse welcome to you and the first question I want to ask is How would you describe the? who is the whole heart brotherhood for and What does it help them do or do for them? Mm-hmm Well, yeah, so we're creating a community for men who want to just practice connecting with other men I mean, it's kind of as simple as that just kind of to Get a little bit outside of the boxes that we might get put into by the way we were brought up And yeah, just practice reaching for each other a little bit more Yeah, thank you and it is so great that you're doing this because I see a lot of support for support groups Offline and online these days mostly online for women, you know, there's a lot of women's circles and women's groups and Also, you know, I don't know if I'm making too much of a stereotype, but I think women also tend to be better at forming relationships that are supportive, etc. And We guys tend to be more tend to be less less good at that. I think I think there was research in saying that, you know, kind of there's Men with friends, you know, kind of that that depletes over the years But I don't know if any of you can can share something like that. Yeah, maybe maybe we could start there What what is what is the problem? What what why why are we creating this? Yeah Well, I can tell you how I noticed the problem in my own life is Having the realization that while I had friends of a variety of genders Given the choice between like going to a movie with Male friend or going to a movie with like a female or gender fluid or non-binary friend I would consistently choose anyone but the male friend like there is a way that I was Myself holding back in reaching out to the men in my life even for not very vulnerable connection Like just let's go see a movie. Let's go have a beer let alone the more vulnerable stuff and The more vulnerability was involved to the more it the Sphere of people I was willing to have that connection with got smaller and smaller to where my full self was really only available to someone I was in romantic partnership with and I just got to a point where that felt really frustrating and like not enough And I realized I really need more support in my life than just a romantic partner can provide I heard this term years ago from a very smart person. He said rugged couple of them It's like yeah, it's just so it's so true Yeah, and keep going. I want I want to hear from Jeremy. Haven't heard you Yeah, I definitely feel like very similar if like that. There's a I I Only quick parts of myself I sure I end up sharing with my partner and there's Trying to foster that connection with men has It's it's a little bit like going upstream for me. Like I do have some of those connections and Jof and Jesse are ones that we've been actually practicing this other way of like letting ourselves be vulnerable with each other And practicing this brotherhood together But for me also there's been I think it's it's been hard to call myself a man actually growing up because it's just what it meant and That there's resistance to the identity of like I'm not supposed to show emotions. I'm not supposed to I'm supposed to like be this womanizer type personality that just what never felt like me or who I wanted to be and that that for me like was a lot of the Motivation of what I see as the problem of like I Bringing together a place of connection for men where we can support each other and move beyond What like we've had to be and bring be all of who we are Yeah, awesome. And so what are some of the skills that The whole heart brotherhood will teach or practice that you know men could bring You know into their lives their work the relationships Empathic listening I think is a big one And what does that mean? Just really being able like empathy is just sort of the ability to kind of get what it's like in someone else's world And so like just the ability to kind of hold space for someone in that way when you're in connection with them Like oh Okay, like I get that your world is kind of shaped like this and it might be a little different than my world But I'm able to hold the complexity of the two of our worlds together And how they might be kind of interacting with each other Like that's a skill that will be developing Awesome, and Jonathan. I'll just we'll kind of go in that order Jonathan. What about what's another skill? Another one is self-awareness And that's that's really where the whole part of whole heart came from is this realization that part of our socialization is men is Learning to deny huge parts of ourselves and just kind of sweep them under the rug Because we get taught that they're not acceptable that they're too much that they're not appropriate for most contexts and so Just cultivating the self-awareness to like have an intimate relationship with all of myself and like Welcome myself when I'm angry and to welcome myself when I'm grieving and to welcome myself when I'm Bursting with joy and to like allow all of those things to happen fully is a big part of what we want to Give to people give to men is this opportunity to just fully express your whole self Yeah, this is awesome and Jeremy before you go there. I just want to share I This today has been a bit of a strange day for me And several things happen, but one of the things that happened was that I Got angry at a particular social media thread that I saw it I guess maybe a Painted me in a kind of bad light And I probably have some you know some fault in that But yeah, I got back every one angry like people don't understand What I'm talking about here and and of course I Went to my wife, and I don't think I went to my wife in the best state To have this to have this expression I'm like, you don't understand me either And I was like this is where the whole whole heart brotherhood needs to come in right like like yeah It's like it's like learning to be with like I think wouldn't you know, this is this is interesting And now this is turning to a therapy session for George Like I think I don't know if this is true for other men, but I know that I have had a difficult time Like when I'm angry, I don't want to talk about it Because if I talk about it, I get more angry Whereas whereas I'm like all my life. I've been like this right and I know this of course Chance women are more open to you know, they want to talk talk it through talk about it And then that makes them feel better. I'm like Talk about I get more angry because I start thinking about those issues issues And I think that's what you're talking about, you know Jonathan with self-awareness being being okay with these different feelings and the wholeness that we learn is such a powerful skill and skill set really to operate in in life with but Jeremy do you want to share? Yeah, I mean on on that actually that so another skill that we want to bring in is Calling in versus calling out And this works in particular way of like at just as you are saying with anger and when you're not able to necessarily have that Self-reflection the moment. How can we as a community?  Mm-hmm. I imagine all of us can relate in one way or another like that's that's totally on point I think that's what right yeah, this basically yeah, yeah, and even there's a skillfulness and noticing oh if I talk about it, I'm just gonna get more angry and That's part of what we want to share too is like we're not gonna make you talk about it If you're like that's not actually gonna serve me right and so so then it's like we're gonna get creative together as a group and say Okay, what can we do that does help you to move this energy through you and not intensify it and we can support you in that Yeah, it's so cool. So Jeremy is there another kind of part of the brotherhood or skill that you want to want to share I mean that I That was one chair. I can share another which is Say ownership language is a big piece too or just having a sense of taking responsibility for your own feelings for your own experience and Having that orientation of like this is what I know to be true and beyond that is a story I'm making up about what's that what's happening and So that we can be in connection around that but owning our own experience is just a way of Relating that I think we're all familiar and being in some more communities around That that allows for us as a foundation to to have connection and And cleanness with what is mine what somebody else's I have an example of how We might do that in our group Yeah, cuz cuz a lot of us so the three of us share some common origins at least in some of this facilitation In the authentic relating community of practice and so some of the tools that we're bringing our authentic relating games Which is kind of like relational yoga Like you're breaking down little different facets of being in connection and relation with people and like Stretching and practicing new skills sort of like that. So one way what Jeremy just said about ownership language there's a game called truths and The way that we would play that is just by saying when you blank I felt blank So it's like Jeremy when you shared that I felt Grateful or something like that. And so that is practicing ownership language notice. I'm not saying like when you judged me or like when you Now I'm struggling to do the opposite thing but like yeah, there's there's lots of ways We could not own our experience of just like projecting onto someone. Yeah, like I could say you you did this And that's why I feel this way totally It's like and it's your fault and you got to make me feel better, right? Which is like that's a true experience that that's an experience that you're having for sure And it's like yeah, how can we hold that and hold you know, right of the the complexity Like it's your responsibility to behave say the right thing so that I feel good, you know, and well There's a lot of that going on in society Yeah, so Who would you say This the wholeheart brotherhood is really kind of designed for like maybe describe The type of man, you know What they're going through or what they're wanting to experience in their life Jonathan how about we'll start with you Yeah, I think a big part of it is fundamentally they're lonely There is Just this creeping loneliness in the life of men that gets more and more intense as we get older And I felt it in my own life I see it in the lives of the men who are my friends and the man who are in in my family and I really want to counteract that like I want to make sure that like we have strong bonds of love to support us throughout our life and for that life to be a really rich one and Honestly, like what you mentioned earlier George about like how women seem to get socialized to be better at this I feel jealous of women a lot when I see the bonds that they are able to have Like I want that And and so yeah, I just really that's the fundamentally It's like it's for the man who's looking at himself and feeling Lonely and he's looking at the the women around him and saying why can't I have what they have? and Who's just wanting to have a more healthy and warm a connection with other men And what's the I Think I actually I'll just say I think we all remember Like what best friends were like when we were younger. I mean we were more likely to have had best friends when you know Elementary school, you know, maybe high school, maybe college and then those friendships start to fade away as we as we leave high school or college because we're not we don't go to class the same You know go to sports teams or any other activities like at that Rick kind of rhythm So maybe a question I have for you Jeremy is how does the wholeheart brotherhood? bring That kind that kind of friendship back and especially these days we do everything online So wholeheart brother, of course is starting as an online community So what are what are some some of the activities that that that we're gonna be doing? yeah, so We're starting with our first course, which is gonna be the art of brotherhood and in this we're Meeting meeting every week and we're also going to be pairing people up and having these activities this these meetings are going to be less information based and more actually Being with each other and having these kind of connections these and going deep really fast like we've shared that we've had this common background of authentic relating and like Create these events so that people can in a short period of time have very deep connections with each other that then can expand and take over a six-week period and remain friends If that relationship like if there's mutual interest in that Can you give an example of? Let's say in that experience. Yeah, let's say I was paired up with someone like what what what's happening in that exercise? Is there a question that you're asking or sure? One of my favorite authentic relating games is called empathy Empathy is a game where If I'm talking I'll talk for two minutes on just Anything that's most alive in my heart something I want to share and you'll listen And then you'll take a minute and reflect back to me what you heard and then I'll go again on anything that I think you either missed or Hearing that reflection. This is what I really want you to get and In this kind of back-and-forth There's leaving this feeling at the end of like you really get me You've really heard me and felt me way more than I normally feel on a conversation That's awesome. Awesome. Jesse. Is there another exercise or? Part of the the the brother experience that you want to bring forward or maybe there's another authentic relating exercise Yeah, I mean kind of what I want to say is that we're We're really holding space for this to be kind of an evolutionary container and so We don't we don't quite know yet exactly the details of how it looks you know, I think a lot of that depends on who shows up and Who's drawn to this work and you know, who's in our in our cohort? You know, and there there is a way well, we'll be practicing some give-and-take with the men that show up To kind of design it around their needs at that time And yeah, just practice some responsive leadership in that way So, so yeah, I mean we have a whole tool belt to pull from not just from authentic relating games but from presence practices like circling or Co-counseling or you know improv games or you know, we've got all kinds of stuff that we got But yeah, I think there's a lot of it that will be kind of responding to a real-time needs of the group Yeah, I'd say we're kind of like jazz musicians who've been practicing and practicing Every single scale in the book and like we're gonna show up knowing a lot of scales But we don't necessarily know exactly what the melody is gonna be Until we're there and we have the people in the room and we say here's what this room seems to need To the best of our taste and ability Yeah, emergent style of leadership and I just want to spend a minute or two talking about what is the What do you envision to be? I guess a changed man or or a more whole Yeah, a more whole man like like how does that what does that look like in that man's life? And What we could talk about relationship we could talk about his work or his family relationships Yeah, I'll let any of you start that For me, I think the essence essential word is welcoming like well welcoming whatever arises in himself Welcoming what arises in the others that he's in relationship with and just being like it is okay for this to be happening This is welcome in my world And just it's a it's a way of being in harmony with whatever is happening And it doesn't necessarily have to be perfect or finished But it's like an attitude of when I'm not feeling welcoming I know that there's some part of me that's capable of that and I can trust that I'll get there right Eventually, yeah Yeah, yeah Jeremy any How else would you describe? Yeah, and right now Jeremy? I just want to say you're you're a new dad And so you have multiple ways of expressing this. Yes Yeah, so a lot of a lot of this work. I'm also doing with new dads And this is a broader scope of the same kind of work Yeah, I'm I Think for me The one the first thing that comes to mind actually with a question is it's not a destination and that is constantly a practice and it's constantly like Being with what's emerging and it's not that Being on a steady line. In fact, actually, that's kind of the opposite of what we're trying to do is There's a lot of this conditioning of needing to be a rock and being steady and It's okay to be off off that baseline It's also just knowing how to find your way back and knowing how to be in connection with others and connection with yourself There's a one of my favorite little lines is I'm bigger than anything that can happen to me As letting yourself expand to being able to notice what's happening if it's triggering or whatever and welcoming that As as Johnson said it all comes back to this welcoming of it and letting it letting it be here Jesse anything you want to add to that? Yeah, just a quick one I think in my own life one thing that I've really noticed as I've done men's work over the past six years is Just my ability now to remember that I have a community or multiple communities that I'm part of and to reach out for them for Support when I need it and to show up for people who need support in those communities as well That to me feels like such a fundamental change from the way that I grew up Just being kind of an isolated nerd who would take refuge in my computer, you know and or books Which you know, I still do that sometimes but I think the difference is that now I just I'm better at remembering like Okay, I can reach for people in this way and it feels really good when I do Awesome Well, we have a few minutes left and I want to make sure people understand who are watching this a couple things Actually, one thing I want to ask is I know there are a lot of women probably watching this or part of this How would you you know a lot of times it's I mean maybe I'll speak for myself and the men I know we don't tend to reach out for help as Maybe as readily as some women do and So if there is a woman watching this and saying, ah, there's somebody in my life, you know, my brother son friend colleague Who would probably benefit from this? What's what's maybe what's a way to let them know about it? Maybe just watch this video. I don't know What's what's your what's your suggestion? Jonathan anything you want to say or any of you any of you can share? Yeah, it's a great question Because I think something we've noticed already is often women are among our biggest fans Because because I think they see the need for this more than the men themselves often do because as men We got so practiced at denying parts of ourselves Sweep it under the rug So, yeah, I man up. Yeah right, right a lot of the time a Lot of the time what what's needed and I've definitely felt this from women in my life is just for someone number one to let me know How much they love me first and then to say I like I really think you need some support here and and I want to encourage you in doing that for yourself as a gift to yourself and When the women in my life have done that for me I have felt so open to like Exploring in that direction that that they said hey, I think there's something for you over there But yeah, I think the key to it was like that it it wasn't this message of there's something wrong with you It's just like I want to support you and growing into what you have the potential to be Yeah, I was I was I was actually thinking like You know if my wife said hey this thing looks really cool. I just I saw this somewhere and it looked really cool I thought you might enjoy it You know might get peak my curiosity to kind of check it out. So Logistical questions quickly before we go is How often? Do do the do people meet in the group and any other logistical things that we need to know about So well, so we're actually launching We're doing a free taster event like a free intro event Let's see it is a Friday May 22nd. Yeah, and by the way if people might be watching this months from now So you probably I imagine you guys will have that On a regular basis. So be sure to check out the website for all that so first thing is really to go to the free taster event and Right, and we'll be doing those periodically. So probably, you know, no matter when you're watching this Then we should have Right and to get involved means I think the cost is pretty reasonable I'm not going to say that because I don't know what it's going to be by the time people watch this but from what I understand It's it's very reasonable very affordable and for the kind of support that you get How often do you guys expect to meet? Like has been participate like once a week or yeah Yeah, we go ahead Yeah, we plan on we plan on doing once a week for our the courses that we're running and There'll be like two hours Each time and be for a set period of time that you're in a certain cohort And within that you'll also be part of a larger men's community that is just ongoing It has constant flow of like it's basically a private social social network So it's kind of as much as you want to participate and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay website Wholeheartbrotherhood.com wholeheartbrotherhood.com. So be sure to check that out guys and gals for your guys Thank you so much for doing this work. It's really it's really needed and really glad that you're the ones facilitating it Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thanks so much