We vote for Biden. Oh, we're starting right in gentlemen. We're thrilled to have you here for another epic debate This is going to be a great one folks as we welcome Destiny and Kim Iverson with us today for an exciting discussion and where it won't really discuss Trump as much this will be more about Biden today in particular whether we ought to vote for Biden or not And so want to let you know a couple of things up front here at modern-day debate We are a nonpartisan channel striving to host debates in which everybody gets their case to make their shot on an equal playing field And that's on topics of science politics and religion. So we are very excited This is gonna be a lot of fun want to let you know about today's format It's going to go like this basically a five to ten minute opening statement from each side Followed by open conversation for about 50 to 60 minutes and then Q&A so if you happen to have a question feel free to shoot it into the live chat and Super chat is also an option if you do that You can also make a comment toward one or both of the speakers that they of course would get a chance to respond to And it'll bump your question or comment to the top of the list for that Q&A Want to let you know of course we really appreciate our speakers being here They're just doing this because they love ideas and they love Conversing and so any super chats that are trying to be personal attacks or anything like that We're not gonna read them and you're not getting a refund You're just gonna have to deal with it folks because sometimes we get those you know the controversial issues But we are very excited. This is gonna be a lot of fun Folks want to let you know a couple of other quick things coming up in particular if you have not heard yet Just wanted to mention this is something that we had plugged the other day with the Milo debate and want to Be sure that you'd heard about it if you haven't I'm showing a picture of Caitlyn right now And Caitlyn had reached out to me and she had basically said hey I basically have a brain degeneration disease that we had just found out about and she is Experiencing things like tremors as well as kind of memory lapses and other things and so right now She has a huge load of medical bills and so we thought hey, what an opportunity Let's just help her get the word out and so want to let you know folks I have linked Caitlyn's video where she tells her personal story So you can hear that straight from her as well as her go fund me down in the description folks highly encourage you even if everybody gave Just a buck one dollar that would be hundreds and frankly probably thousands Potentially even tens of thousands of dollars that would be going to her so we really do our heart does go out to you Caitlyn we hope you're doing well and With that want to mention for today's debate it will basically be a Kim going first followed by Destiny and want to let mention last before we do get the ball rolling I have linked both of our guests in the description So if you're listening and you're like hmm, I want to hear more Well, you can hear more click on destiny and Kim's links in the description so that you can hear plenty more And so with that I want to say first just before we do get the ball actually rolling Thank you so much destiny and Kim just for hanging out with us. It's a pleasure to have you our pleasure and I am just going to quick make a tweak right now for the desktop audio. Thanks for your patience folks and With that can we do we did have one little switch since we went live that's strange is if you're Able to just say a quick hello just so I can see that the audio is coming through again Okay, give me one second. So sorry you guys. It's been a a challenge This should do it. I think Thanks for your patience We're on the road folks so you can notice that are a little studio set up. It's a little different than normal I don't know if you notice notice in chat, but people in your chat are saying that they can't hear absolutely just fixed it So we've now we are set so they can hear you We had we have a 30-second lane so the live chat will catch up and I can see it now We are set. Thanks for that feedback and but yeah We really are stoked to have you guys and Kim the floor is all yours. They can hear you loud and clear now Okay, so I am one of those progressives who refuses to vote for Joe Biden and I have Three pretty three reasons really three big reasons why I refuse to vote for Biden the first reason is that I Think that Biden in the White House would be a restoration of neoliberal policies and those neoliberal policies are what gave us Trump to begin with that Trump is just a symptom not the disease and that we need to Focus on fixing the disease before we make it worse and an ushering in of those neoliberal policies would make it worse Secondly one reason why I won't vote for Joe Biden is because I believe that When Democrats get in office, they become complacent and lazy and it would be the death of the progressive movement Somebody like myself who's very fiercely progressive really wanting to see progressive change in this country I think when Democrats get into office. What happens is they say when neoliberal Democrats get into office They say oh see this is what works. This is what wins. This is what the people want They don't want your progressive policies. They don't want your Medicare for all what they want is they want somebody in the middle Joe Biden or anybody else who's a neoliberal Democrat is in the middle This is what people want and they sort of breathe a sigh of you know fresh air and they just say okay This is what is this this is what works So we're gonna stick with it and effectively the progressive movement loses steam and the last reason why I won't vote for Joe Biden And I think it's actually my biggest reason right now is I don't think he's Mentally competent and which is unfortunate. It's not as fault. He's an older man when people get older We all experience various different symptoms of aging his lack of mental capacity to me is a serious one and Why it's so serious to me is I don't think he's really going to be the one in control I don't think I'm really voting for Joe Biden. I think I'm voting for Some puppet master who's behind the scenes and who's actually the one making all of the decisions And that person should run for office if that person wants to be president of the United States to me It's fundamentally anti-democratic to vote somebody in who's ultimately going to be a puppet for whoever is the puppet master And I think that was sort of the big argument against Trump for a long time was oh He's the Vladimir Putin's puppet and we're really Vladimir Putin is in control of the country I have that same sort of fear with Joe Biden except I don't know who's behind the curtain I don't know who the you know who the Wizard of Oz is and that to me is Fundamentally anti-democratic which is why I cannot vote for Joe Biden You got it. Thank you very much appreciate that from Kim and want to let you know folks I in case you had not seen I had posted the link for Kim's live stream Is there doing a simul stream over at their channel? I some people were saying that they couldn't see it, but I'm 100% sure I can see it and so I put that link in the live chat. I'll put it back in there We'll kick it over to destiny through to have you destiny your good buddy Vosh is here watching If you hadn't noticed or excited the floor is all yours, Stephen Yeah, um, I have like a big thing written out for an opening statement But it mainly has to do with Biden over Trump So I guess I'll just focus my response on I guess the statement you brought up and then we can kind of go into there For the three big reasons not to vote for Biden I hear like the neoliberal boogeyman is kind of wheeled out a lot in terms of things We want to get rid of I'm super curious to get into what neoliberal policies We want to get rid of are we talking about getting rid of like free trade Are we talking about getting rid of like capitalism or like I'm really curious I hear people need like we allow like are we getting rid of like multilateral trade agreements? Or we get like when we say neoliberal policies I really want to know what we're gonna get rid of here or what we need to get rid of and I'm also super curious how Whatever fear we have of neoliberalism exists. I'm really curious how Biden would be worse on that front than Trump would be Who seems to be I guess if you are super neoliberal in some ways, you know gives you a lot of what you want Big corporate tax cuts, you know renegotiated multilateral trade deals between Canada and Mexico So yeah, that I'll be really interested to hear that the second part when Democrats get an office They become complacent and lazy. I don't think this is true. I think this just comes from I hear this a lot I think it just comes from like a fundamental misunderstanding of how the electoral process works you know a lot of Progressive people look at Obama's administration like why didn't Obama do this? Why didn't we do this? The president can only do so much Especially if he doesn't have a Congress for six years of supports his agenda There's not really anything the president can do save for executive order, which when he could he did You know, we got DACA the executive order We got things like the Iranian nuclear deal that was negotiated under Obama's administration But when you look at things like we're a single-payer healthcare I mean the ACA was the most we could get under Congress at the time like that's it There's I don't know what else Obama could have done there You know aside from murdering members of Congress and then like getting special elections held or something That's just the hell the political process goes The third point is a little disappointing.   I don't know how much people care about that But that's kind of like a harder thing to talk about we talk about how it's fundamentally anti-democratic to vote in someone Like Biden. I mean, he's won the democratic processes So it seems to be the most democratic thing and that most people appear to support him Even if we were voting on cabinets alone I think a Biden cabinet and a Biden vice president is probably going to be vastly superior to a Trump cabinet Whatever that is at any point in time because it's constantly changing or a Trump vice president, which would be Mike Pence. So, yeah I guess those are my three kind of responses to those points and then we can kind of get into I guess You bet we'll kick it right into the open discussion. So the floor is all yours Well, so I guess it feels like the I don't know if the first this whole thing might devolve into a philosophy debate between is Not voting for Trump or Biden the same as endorsing the other person that wins because that seems to be a point of contention A lot of people have where they think oh well if I vote a third party, that's not the same as me supporting the winner in an election Do you agree with that? Do I agree that not so I plan to vote third party. So are you saying I I don't agree that voting third party means a vote for Trump Not necessarily vote for Trump But it's a vote for the winner if the only realistic option a second place, right? If so for instance, let's say one candidate is getting 100 votes Another candidate is getting 95 votes and then a third party is getting five votes And then let's say we have 10 votes left to divvy up if you vote for the five vote person You're essentially saying the 100 vote person gets to win Yeah, I mean I just think a vote is a vote is a vote So whoever we choose to vote for is who we're voting for if that means that somebody else who gets more votes Then who I voted for wins then that to me is democracy. That's the way it works So, you know, I understand that argument from the viewpoint that America should be or you know is and should be and should remain a two-party duopoly, but Many of us don't want a two-party system And so many of us feel like there should be many more options and in a system where there are more options Then you just cast your vote for who you like and hopefully that person gains enough votes to win But if they don't they don't that's the way the process works So I mean we can take that approach a vote as a vote as a vote I guess in a vacuum can be like one way to look at it But the reality of the situation is that if you have the ability to sway an election with third-party votes and you opt Not to you're essentially tacitly endorsing the winner of the election. You can say that it's for like a greater Moral compulsion to vote third-party but from a pragmatic level like I mean, that's just that's kind of how the cookie crumbles, right? Well, it only crumbles that way because so many of us are unwilling to vote for a third party So if America, you know, there are more options on the ticket than just the two and if more Americans decided to vote for who they really wanted Or you know, maybe they don't want these third-party options, but let's just say they do They just are afraid to vote for those third-party options because they're afraid of the spoiler effect You know, if Americans could kind of get out of that mindset Then we would have a return to a time that was more akin to when Lincoln was running for president There was actually four different options on the ticket that were large options, you know, viable potential options Or even just back to the time of of Teddy Roosevelt when he ran in the bull moose party against Taft and Woodrow Wilson, you know, we could potentially go back to these times if more Americans were willing to vote And for a third party rather than say, oh, we're in a we're in a two-party system And so we have to just fall in line to that So I mean, I understand the argument of well But realistically we're in a two-party system. So this is what you're doing But my contention to that is realistic. We were not actually in a two-party system We just have fallen into one but we can also get ourselves out of it If more Americans were willing to vote Of the way that they want versus the way they think they need to for the lesser of two evils Okay, so I mean we started with it It crumbles that way because people refuse to vote for third party So we do agree then that third party is essentially just sort of to spoil the election for the Runner-up if that third party vote would have gone to the runner-up right now Yeah in time right now. Well, that could change tomorrow The only way that could conceivably change in the united states is if we change the electoral process For instance, we have to get rid of first pass the post With first pass the post just the way that it's set up mathematically the only possible thing that can happen is two parties Like being successful. So it seems like if we're like really If we're really dug into getting third party or like coalition type government set up Multiple parties working together. It seems like we would have to change the the voting system Like I don't I don't see how we could ever have multiple parties more than two parties running if we have first pass the post as our voting system well, I mean what first pass what getting rid of that and having like Uh, oh gosh, it's just completely lost on me the name of it. What it's what do they do in main rank choice Right in main they do rank choice voting um You know going to something like rank choice voting would certainly help In order to restore third party and fourth party options in america, but it's not necessary in order to do it The reason why the first pass the post system makes it to where we end up in a two party system Is because people are afraid of the spoilers So they don't like the fact that you know, I mean one guy gets all the votes Or one more vote than somebody else and therefore they win the election And so people feel like they have to rally all together and coalesce in these coalitions essentially Um, and it kind of forms this by default two party system, but I don't I don't it's not necessary It certainly would help calm the fears of spoiler voting But it's not necessary Um, we can do a third party without that if people just got over the fear Okay, so I'm I'm I'm gonna push back on this until the day I die So the the reason why this doesn't work is I'm gonna use traditional parties as examples Let's say that we have a democratic party that is generally Okay on environmental issues a republican party that refuses to acknowledge environmental issues And then a green party whose single purpose is environmental issues, right? If you are big on environmental issues, you're more likely to align with the democrats than the republicans And the green party might be a perfect party Let's say that we live in a world where there are 60 percent of americans that support environmental issues and 40 percent of americans That are against environmental issues if all 40 percent of those people have a singular party to unify behind the republican party And then the democratic party and the green party split those 60 percent of americans votes maybe 35 25 or maybe 30 30 then those two parties the third party is always serving to spoil their interests by taking voters away From the other party that most likely resembles their point of view allowing the other party That it stands in opposition to their views to win third parties under a first pass the post system Just mathematically will always and consistently spoil the election There's no way to get over that as long as the other side is willing to unify The only way a first pass the post system gets us multiple parties Is if the other side also has a third party spoiler that spoils in equal proportions as as the side that you're on That's like mathematics. It just doesn't work. It can't like right Well, that's because you're talking about a third party specifically that branches off away from one of those other two parties So for example, if the libertarian party were to grow really really large Then they would be the spoiler for the republican party and the green party is more liberal So they end up being a spoiler because they end up being more of a fringe What we have right now is a lot of the third party options are like fringe More of the extreme mentality For the two different more centrist parties, right? So the libertarian is more extreme on the republican side and the green party is more extreme on the liberal side So they do act as spoilers But that isn't that is just that type of third party. There could potentially be You know, and this is real hypothetical because we don't have one right now But there really could be potentially a third party that rises up that is actually taking from both parties equally And in which case it wouldn't be they wouldn't be a spoiler. They would just cause the other two parties to lose Like it's possible, but that's like so fantastical I can't even imagine a third party like rising from nothing and like there are ways to do this But third parties never seem very invested in actually doing this Like the way to actually grow a third party in the united states It seems like the most successful way to do it would be to grow within like one of your current political parties So for instance, like um, and then you'd be a spoiler Um Well, if you're a spoiler then all you do is you hurt your side more, right? And so you wouldn't want to do that. That's why they don't that's why they don't end up forming parties What they do is they just form they form Uh caucuses sure But like having some sort of local representation with some of these third parties would would probably help in terms of growing that way So getting congressmen elected from your third party across the country or um, you know Maybe more local levels like state representatives or city council officials or whatever probably do ways to grow But in terms of like a national like presidential election Like there's no way that a third party just rises up out of nowhere and manages to equally stipend votes on the left and right And gets like 35 of the american voter 40 and takes out the other two parts like this just seems like an unbelievable I I I guess like maybe in the future could be fathomable But right now like as a third party vote like it seems like you're just tossing your vote into the wind In the hopes that in the future at some point people might feel a little bit differently about third party votes Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree that right now this election because we don't have really a viable third party option That's big enough to to gain enough votes You know, I understand the the argument for this particular election that me voting for a third party Whoever that might be I haven't made a decision yet That that is essentially just throwing my vote away. I guess I mean the democratic process as I get to vote for wherever I want to vote for Um, I would say that if you're voting for the loser, I mean, I could I could make an argument that well trump's going to win Uh, so You know, if I were a republican, right, I'd be like, oh trump's gonna win. You're crazy. Of course, he's gonna win He's gonna win by a landslide and then I'd say so your vote for biden is just throwing a vote The way you should vote for trump because he's gonna ultimately win I mean, we just don't operate like that. We say we vote for who we stand for who we want and Um, but going back to your point I think what you're really trying to what your your ultimate point in bringing up these third party options and everything is saying that If I me voting third party is throwing my vote away when I could instead vote for biden and and vote for somebody who I align more with than the other guy in hopes that the other guy doesn't win because if the other guy wins Then I for sure lose because I don't align because I align less with that guy than the other guy But my problem is I don't align more with biden than I do with trump. That's one of my fundamental problems So not only is biden those three things that I've listed as to why I won't vote for him Um, but there's it goes deeper than that as well, which is just I don't align with him As I aligned with trump on some things more than biden and on In some ways, I think trump is further left than biden and in other ways biden is further left than trump. So To me, it's you know that what then they're almost a wash Then on top of it what makes me say, okay, I definitely won't vote for biden is the fact that I think it will Uh, it will stall the progressive movement It'll be just one of those things that the neo liberals will be able to say look you guys lost twice bernie sanders didn't win the election uh, the nomination against hillary clinton, he couldn't win it against joe biden and This is what works. This is what people want. You you progressives just get lost And you know and then on top of it what I mentioned with I just don't know who's really going to be running that presidency who's really going to be running the white house and You know, those things are really uh, so those kind of top off when I look at the two of them to me They're almost the same They're they're different in certain ways. I think biden is better for things like the environment But not by a whole lot and trump. I think is better a little bit on foreign policy Maybe not by a whole lot. It just kind of depends Trade you know neo liberal policies. I really think are what gave us trump trump is a symptom of a bigger disease Americans are feeling like the the middle class is dwindling the elites are getting richer the poor getting poor the middle class Is dwindling and those policies that the policies that allowed that to happen Happened to really stem down to they they boiled down to free trade agreements Um, and I am not a socialist. So let's just put that out there I I am for a mixed economy a healthy blend of capitalism and socialism I'm very much in favor of a Nordic model system, which is a capitalist Compassionate capitalism, whatever you want to call it But definitely these free trade agreements that really started to ramp up in the 70s and then definitely under clinton I think those and they've continued on and these neo liberals that have wanted to continue on these policies They have just offshore jobs and made it much more difficult For the working class american to achieve the american dream And I think trump's inner, you know, his um more protectionist I would say he's not isolationist, but I would say he's more protectionist his protectionist policies Help to at least if they're not working right now, and they very well might not be Um, at least they're shining a light on the problem at least he's attempting to address the actual problem So, you know, I care a lot about the environment. Uh, I myself am like a bona fide certified environmentalist I've done work in in the environmental movement but uh more than anything else but And I but I also don't think biden's gonna do that much to I don't know how much a presidency can really do when it comes to the environment I think actually the market will sort of settle the environment a little bit More than the presidency will but foreign policy is a big one, right? I mean these guys 80 of their job if not more is foreign policy And I do think trump is to the left of biden on foreign policy In some some major areas not all Okay, um All right, I'm gonna give a response and then I think we should move point by point. There's a lot being said here um So so we open up with I don't I don't so you say that you're aligned more with biden than trump But almost on every single example. I just can't understand So this statement that trump is further left than biden I only hear this said by like the most insane socialists and then Random people that I don't know what their definition of left or right is Um, especially combined with your later statement of being in favor of the the nordic model system Like I don't understand how we can ever think that trump is more closely aligned with that than biden is Like biden wants to quadruple federal spending on low-income housing Like he wants to triple spending on low-income uh k through 12 schooling Uh, he wants to double pal grants right making education more affordable people He's talking about like a massive expansion of the aca giving a public option available to all americans Which more closely resembles like a universal health system in any nordic country compared to what we have in the us right now Trump like the republicans literally just defunded the aca and said good luck We've got nothing like nothing to replace that just mentally of the aca Um Let's talk about a hundred billion dollar investment in affordable housing You know when we talk about houses being affordable to people You know like sweden guarantees that everybody can sign up on a list for a house where they turn 18 or whatever that list is Fucking long, um, you know, uh 10 billion dollars set aside in biden's administration for transit projects and high and in uh in high poverty areas like Nothing nothing here. It is under biden system. I'm sorry. It is under trump system You know trump for education is talking about like school vouchers Which historically have like never served the interest of poorer people charter schools in the us I don't like barely even beat public schools. I think in terms of outcome Um this we get this weird comment also sometimes where it's like oh like a getting a democrat elected We will stall the progressive movement How biden's administration and his suggestions are some of the most progressive we've ever had Like especially when you're talking about environment stuff environmental stuff earlier Like biden has got like one of the most aggressive environmental plans that we've ever seen of like any white house administration ever Any incoming president ever assuming that he wins. Um, bernie himself his cabinet has worked or his uh team of people have worked with biden to come out with these plans That are supposed to be way better for the environment than anything we would ever see out of out of a trump team um This idea of like the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer like you just described all of trump's tax cuts Like more disproportionately more money going to wealthier people the poor not really getting as much You know look at how much of a struggle how much of a fight it's been just to get checks sent out to people that trump Is just having his name written on Look at how the the ppp worked how all of these businesses got these massive bailouts But it's so hard to get a $1,300 cash transfer to americans, you know And i've seen you and other people included keep floating with this idea that like oh, you know trump Maybe is going to go ubi. He's not that's a joke. He just says that to get a little bit of support for a while That doesn't happen You know we talk about trade and the evil of multilateral trade agreements You know trump jerks off is the the usmca that the the new nafta that he signed over and over again Nothing in that helped to protect more american jobs Like it was basically a reformation of nafta with with slightly harsher provisions like for instance for automobiles Manufactured instead of 62.5 of the parts being manufactured in north america now It's 75 percent of parts or i think like it demanded like wages of mexicans or other workers being boosted to like 16 an hour Instead of you know, whatever they normally make But you know despite all of the uh jobs that may be created in the united states None of those are created for working class people those manufacturing jobs aren't coming back detroit And in all of these like big manufacturing cities aren't gaining all these working class jobs It's engineers getting these jobs to manufacture and make robots that make vehicles Like all of those traditional old jobs aren't coming back and even if they were We're not getting the types of protections that we would need for those jobs to come back Because trump's administration doesn't really support things like an increase in the minimum wage or strengthening of unions Both things that biden's administration supports both things that are historically anti neoliberal and both things that would most Closely align us with like nordic countries. Um, I I don't understand how like any part Even your statement of like the market will probably be the one to settle environmental issues Over the government. That's something that I agree with but one thing the government can do is direct the market So for instance, one of the only policies that has ever been shown to have a positive impact market-wise On climate change is cap and trade systems like tax and carbon and that's something that a presidential administration can do That's something that the epa has the ability to do um Trump doesn't even believe the climate change is real I don't we're never going to see any like serious combating of of trump Um or of climate change coming from trump's administration and then foreign policy being 80 of the job of the president I don't know if I agree with that I I guess maybe on a strict level it maybe could be maybe might be but that's foreign policy Is not the thing that americans care the most about but if we were at a greater price than foreign policy I mean trump has legitimized kim jong-un as a leader has pulled out of a historic agreement that prevented iran from pursuing nuclear weapons Has damaged relationships with with iraq by the assassination of solimony without running it by them at all Has you know, literally bombed syria, which is something I know a lot of people historically were against Um has said he was going to pull troops out of afghanistan and hasn't done so yet They're still there and I think they've even talked about potentially increasing our presence there I like I don't understand where the foreign policy argument pays damage relationships with leader leaders around the world he's threatened to cut funding to um to um Not nafta nato over and over and over again because he doesn't even understand what the purpose of nato is He has lost. He's um lost Is a forgive me desi because I know that kim also made a lot of different points and so Pardon my oh, yeah, I'm wrapping up. Sorry. Yeah, because I'm just writing down like everything she said So I can respond every single point and then like um, yeah He's undermined like american presence around the world like leaders like famously like berkel and and trudeau Like I've said things like oh, we're losing confidence in american leadership The world is losing confidence in american leadership. And yeah, that was my yeah Okay, if we want to go point by point that's cool But if if she says like a lot of stuff, I usually I have to write everything down or respond to it Otherwise I'm just kind of getting like yeah, that's fair. No problem I think what we'll do is probably if we switch into uh, maybe one point at a time And I know that that's a challenge kim because I know that there are a lot of points that destiny had said that you'd Probably like to respond to each and every one of them. But don't worry. I promise that given that people know that we'll switch To point to point I know that they'll know that you have a bottle ready for these points, but we uh, just to kind of keep it More manageable cognitively speaking We'll uh, kind of go maybe you've maybe one of the points that you especially disagree with destiny, uh from those last several I mean, I definitely Especially disagree with foreign policy that foreign policy is 80 of the job of the presidency everything else a president has to work with congress For many of the many of the in order to push through legislation or to get things done I mean, I know that presidents have more and more used the power of the executive order but That is something that many of us americans can test maybe shouldn't be used as often that instead Congress needs to begin legislating I know that the supreme court has even been admonishing congress saying why are we legislating from the bench? We don't want to be doing this.  So um, really the fundamental job of the president is You know, it used to be prior to the 70s the president would balance the budget But then congress essentially took that big That big task off the president's table and now they're the ones that really manage more of that So foreign policy, I think is fundamentally a president's job. That's where they have way more unilateral power and when it comes to foreign policy, I guess it depends on um You know typically for me somebody on the left is somebody who wants more peace and negotiation with world powers wants to facilitate Um, you know conversation with others even if you don't agree with them You don't necessarily have to agree with people in order to listen to them and to want to have a meeting with them and talk to them Less war obviously is something that people typically on the left have always been asking for and advocating for and trump is a very Uh, you know, it's it's definitely could be debated because as he got into office things have shifted a bit But he's definitely more of an anti Interventionist than other presidents have been or even or even what biden says he's going to be for example It was just was it last week that trump mentioned He would be willing to sit down with maduro to end the conflict that has been escalating in venezuela To to sit down and have a discussion with the guy. He says i'm always open to meetings You know, this is the same thing with kim jong-un president trump says i'm always open to meetings I don't see any problem with meetings And he's now saying hey, I'll I'd be willing to meet with maduro Meanwhile, biden then comes back around and says, oh, you know, how dare you this is terrible if you care about humanitarian Efforts and and human rights. You would never sit down with that brutal dictator And that is a question about that. Yeah, like so like This is so strange to me like when we say that trump would be willing to meet with maduro That's because trump's support of the second declared venezuelan president Juan uh guaito. Yeah, guaito. Yeah failed like trump. Hold on. Okay. Sorry trump literally invited the guy that declared himself president of venezuela To the american white house to legitimize him as the new president of venezuela How can we say that trump is supporting peace in that region like that bid for That bid for his his power failed. So now trump is like, okay. Sure. Well now i'll support like maduro But this was literally regime change Well, that was if biden did this you would be calling this an attempted coup from a democrat side Well, that it was bipartisan. It was completely bipartisan I mean you saw wan guaito when he was at the state of the union address all of them stood up I mean that was like the one time and ansy blosy decided to clap during trump's speech We're not talking about by probation. We're talking about it was by guaito is bipartisan So all of them have supported guaito when biden gets into office. He's going to support guaito It's going to be regime change trump at least will back down from it when he says, yeah, you know what? I didn't like that idea. It wasn't working Uh, I changed my mind, you know, and that to me is more appreciated than a president That's going to go in there and hard line it and say no, this is what we're going to do I don't think had hillary clinton been in office, for example That we would have been withdrawing from syria the way that we did. I think she would have remained in syria I don't think she would have sat down to do the first peace deal agreement with the taliban ever I don't think she would have gone down that road. I don't think she would have sat down with kim jong-un to try to deescalate tensions I don't think she would be turning around right now and saying oh wan guaito, you know what? We're going to just ditch this guy because that's not working That's clearly not something venezuela is going for and I guess we need to start sitting down and having conversations with maduro I don't believe those things would happen. Yeah, maybe not but all of none of these things are good for trump So for trump and maduro trump attempted to coup in venezuela and failed and now he's like, okay Well, I'll support um, I'll support maduro. I don't think that's a point for trump Whether or not whether or not that is bipartisan's point of Congress is relevant. We're not talking about the democrats We're talking about trump right now, right that so I don't think that's a point for Actually, that way okay, and then because you also brought up the taliban and kim jong-un, okay We signed a deal with the taliban saying we're just gonna leave afghanistan because true We can't do anything and just leave which is essentially hanging the country over the taliban like anybody there's government now Yes, there's a government. We have to and then we've been at war for 20 years. We lost we have to go I understand but I don't I don't know that's a point for trumps more policy We're like, okay, well, I'm leaving also We still have a huge presence in afghanistan that hasn't happened yet And then thirdly when you bring up kim jong-un, we didn't secure a single concession whatsoever in that region from kim jong-un they still continue to test missiles All of our allies in the region japan and south korea like look to america like what are you guys doing? We went to kim jong-un. We legitimized him as a leader and then we walked away and we didn't secure a single concession How do you think we should have done? What do you think we should have done with kim jong-un? Well, we could have ordered um I mean we could have we could look to the iran deal for how we should have structured and agree with them Maybe we have it so that investigators are allowed to go on site in north korea and investigate certain Reactories, maybe we have it in place such that if you continue to test intercontinental ballistic missiles Maybe we are going to enact stronger sanctions on you Maybe we order the decommissioning of certain nuclear facilities that we like there's tons of things we could have done We could look to obama's deal with iran Something that trump walked away from as like a model for how we should have approached new I think that's what trump was trying trying to do with kim jong-un if i am not mistaken I think he was trying to negotiate a deal Right because jung-un's unwilling. So kim jong-un, you know, you have to negotiate with somebody else if that other person's not willing What are you going to do? So what am i supposed to do on the world stage? So then what you have to negotiate with them? How are you going to negotiate with that? How are you going to do an iran nuclear deal with north korea without actually sitting down with them? Well, how are you going to get that done the the best way to probably do Threaten war. No, you don't have to threaten war. You use soft power We have a lot of soft political power that the united states is unwilling to use because trump is unwilling to engage In multilateral trade agreements and instead prefers to do unilateral trade agreements If we don't like what north korea is doing maybe getting china to apply some pressure on them as possible We know we don't try because the way to apply pressure on china is not unilaterally It's through multilateral trade agreements something that trump historically has been opposed to Do you want to apply pressure to china? Then these sanctions have to come from a wide variety of countries It can't just be the united states it doesn't we don't have the economic power to apply that power to china anymore So if you really want to deal with north korea, you probably have to go the route with china But china is way too big for the us to deal with alone and this protectionist idea this go-it-alone policy Where we refuse to engage with other countries to apply like multilateral pressure to china means that we're never going to have the ability to Do it regardless of how we think we should approach north korea what trump did was just horrible It did nothing it put took a steps back from it and to say that is a foreign policy I don't agree. I think that leader. I think our president should meet with leaders of other countries These these leaders are in control of the lives of millions of people and to say oh it legitimizes them They're already legitimate whether you like it or not millions of people are under their control That's pretty damn legitimate.  We are Uh, you know, you don't threaten us with nukes don't threaten us You know, let's try to try to keep the peace a bit here. I don't know what else you can do I mean this whole idea of d or of legitimizing that to me How can you like of course they're already legitimate? They're already leading these nations It's like the Taliban. They're already legitimate whether you like it or not They're in control of large swaths of afghanistan. They're in control of millions of people's lives. That's legitimate That's legitimate. What did what did trump do? What did we accomplish positively in our meeting with kim jong-un? Well de-escalated tensions. I really think that kim jong-un I mean at least as less likely to bomb us now that he thinks trump's his friend He literally like the next week was spinning up centrifuges fusions again and testing missiles Yeah, he already had news because they've already had nukes. They've had nukes for a while They've had nukes since obama and that is something that you know, that's why obama says to trump The your biggest threat is north korea and it's because they already have their hands on nukes So if they've already got them, what can you do now? All you can do is try to get them to dismantle them Why would they do that when they see what we do march around the world and try to affect regime change? We're not we're not talking about So affect regime change like supporting the other they're not giving us any venezuela because that's what trump has done Trump supported well he attempted it under bolton, right? But then he got rid of bolton because he realized bolton was an absolute big ol warhawk and part of the establishment I mean one of the biggest problems that trump has faced getting into office is that he's unfortunately surrounded by career by career officials those are his picks you can't Some of the businessmen his you can't blame bolton wasn't put there by like the deep state, right? If we don't know we don't know Then it sounds like trump is an ultimate leader Like well, I mean there's no doubt about that But there's also no doubt that joe biden would be worse when it comes to foreign policy He absolutely would be affecting regime change in venezuela would be one of the first things He does is ensure that one guido gets into power He would once again ensure that more troops end up in syria because we got our defeat Assad I don't think he'd be pulling out of the out of afghanistan with the talibanan study might be ramping it up Leading us into what another decade of war in afghanistan.  That's what we like every every point you only wear Okay Forgive me for just jumping in we'll give uh, let's give cven a chance to respond. I promise We'll come right back to you I just like all of these foreign policy areas you're bringing up are areas that trump has blundered in like massively Like when you talk about like he would escalate tensions in syria Trump literally abandoned allies in syria and literally threatened to steal oil fields in northeast syria and run them under the united states How was that considered a foreign policy? And then we talk about like creating like a successful nuclear deal for north korea and how the united states Well, we weren't able to get concessions Maybe one of the reasons why it's so hard is because we literally just walked away from a perfectly good deal We had structured with iran. Why would any other country make a deal with us to avoid nuclear weapons? If us is just going to leave for political reasons Yeah, so when it comes to iran, definitely trump is not good I think that there's two areas of foreign policy that trump would be potentially Well, no, maybe just one area of foreign. Ah, hard to say hard to say with israel How biden will respond how what biden is going to do in regards to israel? But definitely when it comes to iran Trump has been worse on that front foreign policy wise. I don't think biden or democrats would be doing A maximum pressure sanctions on that nation But when it when I look at all of the the rest of foreign policy All around the world. I do think that trump has an edge on democrats Lately unfortunately I wish I could see some of those successes, but I I mean he got a couple more countries to contribute more to their military budget under data Well, even just the conversation of hey, we shouldn't be invading these countries Hey, we shouldn't be Affecting regime change war being really hesitant to affect regime change in countries like Like venezuela, you know, he gave bolton that one shot to attempt it And it failed and now trump has lost interest and he wants to move on and that to me is a win You know, ultimately it's better than continuing maximum pressure on venezuela saying, okay No, we're gonna still go for it again and again and again until they finally collapse I mean like trump literally has an unprecedented thumb right now on the doj on the department of justice And i'm pretty sure we're unless this case was dropped. I could be wrong But the last I heard we are literally prosecuting maduro for drug trafficking charges in the united states and our federal prosecutors So this idea that like trump isn't trying to affect regime change. I I don't understand I just don't get it. Um affecting regime change is a little bit different than trying to pressure somebody to I mean like actual Pressuring of trying to affect regime change through Messing with the electrical grid Trying to stage a military coup, you know, those were things that have been attempted in venezuela recently these maximum sanctions But now, you know, trump seems to have reversed and moved to a strategy of let's just try to talk maduro into resigning Let's try to get him to peacefully exchange Into to somebody else, but I don't think he's thinking guaito necessarily anymore I just don't know if that is the way that the that lately democrats have proven to be more Warhawk-ish and I think that they would have gone in with more military might and would have done something like topple maduro The same way goddafi was toppled which ended up leading libya To a completely failed state where we have a slave trade an open slave market now going on in libya. That is Absolutely a disaster that happened under a democrat. So, you know, I for like I understand all of this, but like if you want to be critical of like I don't I don't want to get too lost in the weeks of formal policy discussion or we can but like If you want to be critical of us actions in the middle east and the type of people that we defend or the type of people that we attack So for instance our really aggressive position on iran or the 2011 involvement in the libyan civil war Like well, then let's take a look at some of the partners that we have in the middle east Like for instance the gulf states like for instance, saudi arabia trump applied zero pressure whatsoever when that I don't know how to pronounce his name, but the journalists. They got chainsawed and brought out in body bag Yeah, trump did nothing about that didn't care. We've i'm pretty sure under trump We've signed historic like multi like hundred billion dollar arms deals with saudi arabia Right if we're going to continue to work with the gulf states and our relationship with them is only strengthened under trump Of course, we're going to constantly be taking aggressive positions towards countries like iran or towards leaders that don't support Israel or the the um the gulf states down in that region of the world and we've seen that we're literally Assassinating like people that are part of iran's government in iraqi airports. Like that's that's huge.  That's insane Yeah, I mean like trump literally vetoed like a senate vote to withdraw from yemen like and we've been historically bombing them More and more and more and more even under trump's administration. I'm sorry go ahead Well, we support saudi arabia on that. Yeah, I mean look With when it comes to iran, I definitely concede that the guy is worse. I don't well Well, it's hard to say it's hard to say if he's worse He's certainly not going in the direction that I would like him to go in when it comes to iran But it's hard to say what would have happened with iran How would we have escalated with iran with ademic with like hillary clinton in the white house? It's hard to say what would have been or what, you know, we could say what what we think might have happened But events change things are always shifting and this is kind of what happened when obama was in office It was we're going to get out of these wars. We're going to pull out the troops and all that and then things change And he says oh never mind. We're actually going to ramp things up I mean, so you just never know what happens when person gets into the white house So it's hard to say But I definitely don't like the direction that trump has gone on when it comes gone in when it comes to iran I think he has a real serious Alliance or blind spot or soft spot when it comes to israel And he basically is willing to do what israel would like him to do and that includes Mean mugging iran all the time to try to go iran into some sort of a conflict in order to Justify trying to affect regime change in iran again We don't have to we don't have to talk about like hypothetical like we get what what happened under obama and iran We got a historic the joint comprehensive plan of action a multilateral arms agreement that to decommission iran's pursuit of nuclear weapons in exchange for an easing of sanctions on a badly damaged economy And a free up of funds that we had frozen that belonged to iran We like obama had taken one of the most unprecedented unbelievable stances towards iran And like the past like several decades of us positioned towards that country This idea that we would be more aggressive towards iran under democrats when it was literally a republican that came in and stripped away the us involvement in that deal That was a historic warming of relations between that country Same thing with cuba the exact same thing with my mom is from cuba like under obama I think we were actually seeing flights to cuba again as we started to to warm up relationships in that country And I think trump just walked back on all of that as well Right. Yeah, and cuba's a you know cuba's one that would be interesting. I don't think Biden is going to reverse course on cuba. I think obama did that just because he was exiting I think a lot of presidents get away with a lot of stuff at their at the last year of their off of their term They kind of do what they want to do And I think it was definitely the right thing to do to open up relations with cuba And we absolutely should go back to that for sure. I don't think biden's going to do that I don't think he's going to reverse course on cuba I think that there's just too many voters in florida a swing state That absolutely do not want to see normalized relations relationships with cuba. So I don't think that's going to change I think that's probably why trump did what he did because he knows he needs those swing voters and You know in florida. Biden knows he needs them too. So I don't expect any change there So that is something I don't think would would be any different venezuela. I do think would be different under biden I do think that Our efforts in afghanistan would be different and syria would be different Israel I think would be the same. I don't think that biden is going to he's been known to be one of the friendliest Senators when he was in the senate with israel And I don't think that that's going to I don't think he's going to put any pressure on them to stop them from Increasing their settlements in the west bank or from annexing sections of the west bank I don't think that's going to you know, no president really has put any pressure on israel So I don't think that's going to change the only thing that might be different is iran And I give you that that's the one thing that very well could be different But here's the thing about trump is he has been Unwilling to engage in full conflict with iran. So even though he's done little things here and there He's been unwilling to go full bore into war with them or to to be so aggressive that we end up Fully in a conflict with iran like many of the neocons in the government would love to see the warhawks Absolutely would love to see us march into war with iran and he's been holding back on that He's not out for war president The assassination of solia mani has been one of the most aggressive things Deepa has done in the middle east since our invasion of the middle east It literally prompted some lovely very response from iran against some of our embassies How can you say that we've taken also and then even looking at cuba again? First of all, biden has said that he's willing to return to obama's prior, you know steps Prior steps that they've taken to to warm up relationships with cuba The only reason trump doesn't like cuba the reason why in 2017 he rolled back all of those obama era Travel relaxations and and the sanctioned relaxations was because he was trying to pressure cuba out of out of supporting maduro regime change And the voters in florida i think the voters we can say voters in florida But it was the stated reason was because cuba is a big supporter of venezuela, which they are they're very close to each other Um Trump is like as hawkish as any military president like he's ever been Like to say i don't think people realize how important i think there was a big new yorker right up If anybody hasn't read it on who on who solia mani was This guy is so fundamentally important to iran um and such a leader um in that region of the world Like everybody knew who this guy was this guy was playing multiple sides of multiple conflicts across that entire region And we just straight up blew his shit up in an iraqi airport without even running it by Supposedly our allies that we'd forged in the in the region after the past 20 years or whatever of the destructive I'm sure we ran that by israel. I'm sure they were all on board with that one I don't know or care what it has to do with israel. I'm just saying that that was an extremely aggressive I'm just saying that was an extremely aggressive play from the united states that some people were wondering was going to prompt a military response That did to some except from iran I'm not supporting one way or another Israel or their human rights abuses against palestinians or any of the or i don't even support iran and and what solia mani was doing in in his um Kind of imperialistic shit throughout the middle east But i'm just saying that to say that trump Is a good record on foreign policy When all of these examples in my opinion are foreign policy blunders north korea was a blunder Venezuela has been a blunder cuba was a blunder iran was a blunder I don't see how any of these afghanistan continues to be a blunder Any of these are in support of trump having like a good stance on foreign policy Well, you know, I mean he's trying to get us out of syria. That was something that obama escalated libya was something that obama escalated You know, we so trump hasn't escalated Is any real on the ground conflicts? He's been trying to wind those down So literally had us troops running syrian oil wells for yeah So, you know, he ended up bring so he took the troops out of syria and moved them into what? Saudi arabia he wasn't allowed to bring them home because congress prevented him from doing it saying that It was going to be detrimental to our allies So trump had to move them out of combat zones He at least did move those troops out of combat zones and then he moved some troops back It was like 200 back to guard some oil, right? Sure, i'm just saying that the u.s It's still better to get us out of those foreign to get us out of The conflicts and to say we're just not going to be fighting these wars anymore I think that's a win. That's more of a success Um, you know some of it's not like we can really exit these places Overnight we do have to have an exit strategy And I do think that trump has been giving us exit strategies out of these wars He has not gotten us into any new wars Sure, but i'm just saying that like well in terms of like stepping up things in syria We absolutely did under obama. Yeah, like america's foreign policy.  They're literally taking it like the Kurdish people are running it We've got hundreds of troops on the ground defending those oil fields And we're literally fucking stealing the money from it to say that this isn't an escalation of our policy in syria Um, I I don't understand how we could say that this is i mean, I don't think that's escalation I just don't think it's full on withdrawal, right? I mean, I don't think so having no troops on the ground running their oil fields Into having troops on the ground running oil fields that is in a way of escalating u.s presence in in syria Well, I mean I they were for one they were in a the middle of a severe civil war that has Largely calmed down.  He wants control of those oil fields back And Yeah, you know the u.s was saying oh no wait, we're going to go and guard that oil Hold on, you know, do I think that's right? No, but I do think that we have de-escalated in syria That is a good thing. We need to continue to de-escalate all throughout the middle east And that is you know, that's got to be the priority. I don't think that Under a democrat who's controlled by the military industrial complex is going to wind down wars in the middle east But a republican who definitely isn't controlled by the military industrial complex who hasn't stepped up Like our activities in syria on multiple fronts Like when you talk about even just from a foreign policy point of view when you talk about Assad taking back control of his country Like russia has been pretty key in helping Then control like stuff going on in the northern part of that country, right? Turkey shoots russian jets out of the sky And I mean turkey is a full on us ally didn't seem like we're pressuring turkey to knock off with any of that Shit also with us troops on the ground, you know supporting Kurdish people that are running those oil fields Do you think that russia is going to be able to help Assad just step in? I mean, I think we've executed completely now But like at the point like obviously russia wasn't able to move in and destroy any presence there because the u.s Literally has troops on the ground there. I I mean, I don't know that I just I don't understand How this can't be seen as anything but like an escalation. This is like literally imperialism like this is literally like like Like we've done regime change in iran in the past for stuff like this Like nationalizing and expropriating oil fields and oil companies running the country and then moving to be like you Can't do that and then overthrowing the country for it. Um, I don't know. There's just seems yeah I'm not sure is bashar al-Assad in control of syria at this point majority Um, I think it's already at this point. Sure. Yeah, so I don't think it was really a regime change effort I mean, I think that bashar al-Assad now has control over his country I'm not it wasn't a regime change effort when obama did it because it was it Absolutely was a regime change effort when obama did it. Yeah, it was it's still like a troll of the country It failed Yeah, it was a failure Right, just like venezuela's a failure On that just like iran has been a failure the numerous times that we've attempted regime change in iran so we don't always we don't always we're not always successful at that and syria was one that was absolutely not successful And uh, many were calling for continued attempts and trump has basically refused and said no You know the guy wins So what we're going to do is just going to go take some oil while we're here We're going to loot the place, but that's really what we're doing at this point We're looting the place, but we're not actually trying to take control over the country anymore Is it great? No, it's not great, but it's better Okay, I I don't see that at all, but I mean anything we run this one down so this It may be unless you guys have any kind of last points that you'd like to cover Pretty soon including if you want to do summary statements or something like that We could go into the q&a otherwise Well, sure. I guess I'm kind of I guess one thing um, I mean as much I like foreign policy. I think it's very interesting. I like talking about foreign policy But the average american doesn't care at all about foreign policy Like the top five issues that are usually pulled when gallop sees what can americans care about it's healthcare national security I guess you can say national security is kind of foreign policy, but I think it's mostly related to border stuff And then gun policy education and the economy these are like the five big issues that americans like consistently rank as the most important things Which is kind of the areas that I was looking at between biden and trump and I I don't know But I we brought up you had your three points earlier. I guess we kind of got lost to the foreign policy thing I don't know I mean definitely trade. I mean I I do agree that I think trump is to the left of biden when it comes to You know trade in the u.s. With foreign countries and trying to protect workers I think that if biden gets back in he's going to implement, you know get into tpp and Uh, he's going to stop tariffs on china. I'm not really a big fan of exactly what's going on with how we're going about the trade war with china But I do think that it's a necessary Conversation it's a necessary point that people need to be understanding That has been uh that that our Dis our imbalance in trade with china Now I don't agree with the cause of it and what trump is attacking But I think that at least pointing it out and getting americans to realize that this is a problem is fundamentally a good thing Rather than just swiping it under the rug ignoring it and saying all is well over here Which is absolutely what biden plans to do I'm That to me is more of the Trump's tariffs are literally having a 50 plus billion dollar impact that does a tax on american consumers every single year I think that even in my state of nebraska I think they said they'd suffered a billion dollars in losses In terms of revenue due to the restrictions of the tariffs in the united states like Even if we do say that these tariffs are helping the u.s. Establish some businesses. They're not helping workers We're not like hiring like auto workers again. These are all robots And these are all automated machines that are being created to do these manufacturing jobs. Um I don't see how we definitely need to bring some Manufacturing back to the u.s. I mean, I think that this pandemic has made that really clear that You know when we are x when we're bringing imports in for everything including masks And sanitizers and all of these, you know ppe gear that we need tests and materials for these tests That has shown us that we absolutely need to restore manufacturing here in the united states to some level just as a Measure of national security. I mean shoes are all made in china What if we have to go to war and we all need shoes, you know, what if I mean clothing everything is made over there and I think that this has opened Hopefully it's open americans eyes to the fact that we do actually need to bring some manufacturing back to america We do need to have some america first policy. There's no doubt china has china first policy There's no doubt that many countries around the world do and the u.s has Uh has sort of abandoned that for the corporates the elites the capitalists that want to go and just make as much money as they possibly can We've allowed our country to go up for sale. We've put up the united states for sale Everything is for sale in this country including our politicians our homes You're allowed to come into this country and buy real estate and property even if you're not an american citizen You cannot do that in china. There are so many things that we have just placed up for sale. We've allowed this We've allowed for just anything as long as it goes to the highest bidder It's fine and trump has at least i mean it's again, it's not perfect It definitely needs it's far from perfect his policies are far from perfect but he's at least Shining a light on this problem and waking americans up to say hey We let ourselves go for way too long. We do need to put america first for a while We do need to start looking at our trade imbalances and realizing that this is a giant problem And it's causing the it's one of the reasons one of the many reasons of inequality in our country The biggest reason is of course that we've just allowed for these the For the country to go up for sale including the politicians that is allowed for corporations to get away with everything that's allowed for And joe biden by the way, you know, he promised all of he promised us that he was going to You know, he even put on his website this entire plan for corporate accountability legislation that he was going to finally make them Pay their fair share and then he goes and he does the speech three weeks ago in front of a bunch of corporate wall street guys and says Nothing's going to happen. I'm not going to propose any new legislation on you Nothing is going to fundamentally change. He said that last year. He said it again three weeks ago So in lies What will Forgive me just because just to be sure that uh, steven gets to cover at least several points here Is that there are a number of them? And I think that kim since we let you get the ball rolling I mean, I've got more time if you guys do so I don't want to end us All right.  He said that three weeks ago three weeks ago Three weeks ago. Yeah, he said nobody's standards of living are going to change amongst like wealthy people He's not going to he didn't say he wasn't going to pass any type of tax policies Like trauma as some of the most progressive tax policies that have ever and i'm sorry I'm trump buying to some of the most progressive tax policies that have ever been suggested Um like in any person running for government like in in 40 or 50 years like um And and again, if we are worried about potentially all of these things happening under biden Whatever we're worried about happening under biden is literally happening under trump right now First of all, just because there's a trade imbalance that has nothing to do with inequality in america inequality in america is going to be seen When you do things like uh, like disproportionately give tax cuts to wealthy people, which is what trump has done. Um Like slash things like education spending which disproportionately helps poor people Slash things like social programs like getting rid of the mandate for the aca and cutting off government funding for that Like trump has consistently time and time again favored large corporations over american workers again Look at the ppp program Like i know people that got you know almost no money because they were just making a little bit too much But i know businesses that are getting you know, like tens of thousands hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars because they qualify for You know some type of business reinvestment loan regardless of how wealthy owners are Um like like to say that these things are favoring the workers. Um, it's just absolutely not true Um, and then like when we talk about like how trump has like dealt with things so far, you know, um The the tariffs have only hurt american workers We still continue to massively like in the first 18 months of trans presidency the rate of federal contractors offshoring jobs doubled And then and what we've talked about like bringing back like manufacturing to the united states Um, biden literally has plans for all of this on his on his website You can literally look at like joe biden dot com slash made in america And he's got like a whole plan for like 400 billion dollar procurement investments for you know buy american make american He wants to you know make a 300 billion dollar investment in r&d for breakthrough technologies Um, like he's got like all like all of this shit is listed under biden's plan Trump has already proven that he's unwilling or unable to do any of this He either doesn't have the political capital or the political will to do so Um american workers have not flourished under trump I was telling you to take a long time to undo the neoliberal policies that have been done over the last You know 30 years 40 years for sure So i mean i don't think it could be done in one term or one presidency Even it's something that's going to take a lot more time But just to go back to this joe biden did say in a meeting on july it was like july 20th He said corporate america has to change its ways. It's not going to require legislation I'm not proposing any we've got to think how to deal how we deal people back in he went on to say um He says the i'm not one of those guys who thinks government knows best But let me tell you something think of what we can do in terms of investing in offshore wind There's a lot of steel we can make man a lot of people can be put to work A lot of CEOs can make a lot more money and a lot of people can be paid a decent salary He then says the essence is that you've got to build the country back build back better Give people an opportunity for a decent wage and you guys might not like it a union wage. That's my view I hope I don't offend any of you with that, but I think it's totally consistent with a market economy moving forward So he literally that was his speech three weeks ago. He's makes a lot of promises. I mean look If we're gonna go with candidate trump versus candidate biden I think then it would be you know, we'd have to go back to what did trump say during the campaign We all know that he didn't actually live up to many of his promises in his in his presidency So I think it would be unwise to think that biden who's making all of these promises Is also going to then get into office and somehow magically live up to all of his campaign promises Especially since even during the campaign He's actually flip-flopped and said one thing to the people and then another thing to corporate america And he's done that time and time again and you know, he's got 50 years of governance that we can look at the record We don't have to go with his campaign promises.  He's sided with big crime He's you know, he wrote the crime bill. He wrote the patriot act I mean the guy is it is foreign policy. He's been for the invasion of iraq. He's been Under obama, you know, they went and toppled goddafi turning libyan to a failed state where we have now an open slave market He's been a disaster time and time again over 50 years of governance So I think it's fair that we compare his actual record Not his promises to trump's actual record and not trump's promises I mean Biden is not a perfect candidate, but literally for every single part you bring up that's bad with biden trump has literally had a worse record We don't have to just look at candidate trump or president trump We can just look at historical trump, right when we talk about like wrote the crime bill, right? biden had some important contributions to that crime bill that involved like historic protections for women from domestic violence And then a ban on assault weapons like these were biden's like huge contributions to the crime bill that he pushed so far They made concessions to to republicans sure in order to Like the top on crime policy and all that stuff which debatedly at the time a lot of people supported regardless anyway But like I mean trump has literally come out saying things. Um, god.  Were you? Oh, yeah, the the central park five Yeah, oh my god, like how can you read something like that? I think man trump is a lot better on crime Well, I mean biden had a very similar stance at that time. He was quoted saying that he You know wanted extreme punishment for them very extreme and he then roped them into a hundred thousand other youth He was he talked about a bunch of youth that were all all around the country at that time that he was saying They needed to go really hard at these people. I would have to go back and read biden's thing I remember that he did have a negative view on them for sure But i'm pretty sure trump literally said in that op-ed that they should be executed or hung or something It was yeah, he called for the death penalty. Sure But you know and also trump and also the difference the time a key difference here because we like to do a lot with timelines Trump held on to his position after the central park five was acquitted So like Like that's a pretty big thing as well Also, trump is super buddy buddy with people like arpeio From arizona and there's a super big fan of things like stop and frisk or different types of things in new york city Like so the idea that like trump has this better stance on crime, but we just don't know trump's stance on crime You know, um, I don't I don't think this is true You know we talk about supporting the open slave market like trump has plenty of support for the golf states Where we see lots of slave labor being imported into these countries Um, I think katar and the ua e have had like people that are like imported.  We're like, um Like 20 people live like in these four people shacks where they're brought over and basically treated as indentured servants to work in some of these areas And and yeah, I don't know this I just I mean like there are things we could be critical of biden for i'm not going to sit here and stand biden on every single issue Of course, there are things that he has supported in the past and maybe even continues to where that I wouldn't like But in almost every single measure, uh, you know trump supporting the world cup and all the labor that went involved into that Like in almost every single measure trump has been just measurably worse than I think it's fair to say though that if trump were president during the time That we took out gadoffy.  Look we have this very That's the tulsi supporter. Okay. We have this very anti-american intervention point of view where it's like well if america You know if we would have been anti intervention, we wouldn't have messed up in libya Sure, but you know what else trump would have done He wouldn't have gone into bosnia and ended the civil war there either not all american involvement in other countries is necessarily bad There are times where we get it wrong, but there are also times where we get it right too I don't think it's fair to say that it We should just pull out of every single foreign conflict and have no us involvement whatsoever And just let russia or china or any other country that wants to step in and have involvement run their case there I don't think it's fair to say that and I also don't think it's fair to say that like well trump wouldn't have gone in during that You know during that civil war and done anything there when you know I'm pretty sure that you've accused the the us of being involved in regime change there because we thought that they were Going to move away from the petro dollar. Well, we're literally running syrian oil fields Like we obviously trump has a vested interest in what goes on with oil in other countries Why wouldn't trump intervene there if he thought it was going to benefit um the u.s Oil markets or why wouldn't he go in there if he thought that there was some economic advantage to begin with We literally did it in in in syria in an escalated attempt under obama like or i'm sorry under um under uh trump Like we did under bush. We didn't do this under obama. Um I have i have a hard time seeing i don't know man I like sticking trump into other timelines and then trying to evaluate how he would act there based on how He's acted here. It seems impossible to me that trump would have been any more responsible Like trump we've bombed syria under trump. We bombed one of their airports literally like I don't know. I i'm not seeing it and that was a response right? We were trying to respond to chemical You know, uh an accuse an accusation of a chemical attack So that's why we helped invade syria. That's why we were supporting was a response to chemical weapon attacks under obama Why did we support it when trump does it but we didn't support it when obama did it? Well, it wasn't an invasion. I mean he bombed an empty airport He there was that was all it was it was just it was for show It was similar to what iran did after solomani was killed. They sort of did a show thing I mean that's all it was was a show. It wasn't real I mean it wasn't it wasn't something that actually led to massive loss of life or endless amounts of war or american troops on the ground for years on end You know, and what what we do know is that venezuela, for example, is about oil as well and you know, venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world that we know of and He has not attempted to affect regime change in the same way So I just think you know with bosnia. It's hard to say that of course was a humanitarian crisis and And that is one of very few actual humanitarian crises that we've seen in our lifetime Where it really was absolutely necessary for our government to go in Um, you buy the same argument for libya. What's that people made the same argument for libya They make the argument for all of that. I mean, that's been the the war machine's talking point is to try to get people into This sort of bleeding heart situation of we have to we have to protect humanitarian rights and That's what that's what biden is now arguing against for venezuela Trump now saying, hey, you know, i'm willing to sit down with matero Why not I think this is kind of a loss so we should just kind of move on from this and biden saying Oh, no, absolutely not. We have a we have a humanitarian crisis and we're for humanity And this is the right thing to do is to go and effect regime change. It's always been a good thing to do Do we not believe that humanitarian crisis has ever happened? Like i'm assuming you think no they happen like I just said Yeah, but in bosnia they happen sure, but they weren't happening. Are they happening right now in china with the Uyghurs Do we believe that that's happening? I don't know about the humanitarian you don't believe in that Okay, what about the humanitarian crisis in yemen that trump has continued to push for war and like well, that's Saudi Arabia We've been funding them. Yeah, that is an absolute crisis No, hold on. That's trump the united states explicitly supporting and trump himself vetoed the senate Drying to withdraw any actions there like that is those are u.s drones shooting u.s missiles onto yemen citizens Like we can't just blame Saudi Arabia for that as his u.s involvement like that. I mean there are humanitarian crisis is happening It's not like they never happen We just I believe there was a story yesterday or maybe it was this morning But a canadian man died I think on our northern border of covet 19 because he was locked in like a u.s detention center Or or we had these kids in cages at the southern border being separated from their families Like they're immigration. We haven't even touched on the coronavirus handling. I mean, oh man. I don't know Yeah, I mean this could go on for a long time. I don't know. I'll give you the last word if you want to think Well, I mean just when it comes to that for sure, there's humanitarian crises. I don't I don't disagree with that I don't think you know libya turned into a major humanitarian crisis after we took out qaddafi and turned the place into a Failed state with the with an open slave trade. So I don't know how we could justify saying this was a Something we must do in order to protect the libyan people and it actually did completely the opposite Most of our regime change efforts have in fact like look at afghanistan when we marched in there And we were affecting all kinds of attempts at regime change iraq. Look at what's happened to these people They've ended up with the taliban. They've ended up with You know with syria when we were attempting regime change there They ended up with a surge of isis that russia had to come in and say hey We now have to battle isis because isis is now reared its ugly head because of your guys's attempted regime change So we haven't really been very good our track record of Saving nations because of a humanitarian crisis is really really We get an f on that for sure. So I don't that I think everybody especially on the left The many many people on the left and right are waking up on this But those on the left who always historically have claimed to be for less war Need to wake up to the fact that these so-called humanitarian regime change efforts are in fact not that but making humanitarian situations much worse Gosh that only I said I give you less for the only thing I want to say about all that is for the record Trump was a massive supporter of intervention in libya. That's something that hillary clinton brought up that was true We will jump into the q&a want to say thanks so much folks for all of your questions And a quick friendly reminder that both destiny and kim are linked in the description What are you waiting for if you want to hear more now is the chance So let's jump into those questions want to say thanks so much Folks for all of these the first one this one comes in and do I understand right that's Social dem is that synonymous just in abbreviation for democratic socialism? Yeah, I think so. Okay. Gotcha. Thanks thoughts. So wanted to be sure it said uk marxism dlc failed says destiny if we accept that democratic socialism is preferred to any other capitalist system Why are you against socialism when democratic socialism predicates socialism by theory? Democratic social i'm not i'm not i'm a sock dem not a dem sock. There's a difference. Oh sock dem is like a social democracy Which is where Basically, it's a it's a cat. It is explicitly a capitalist run system that has like a lot of government intervention democratic socialism is a non capitalist non market system So i'm i'm not a dem sock at all. I'm a sock dem Gosh, yeah, okay. Let me just be sure that thanks for that clarification by the way that okay that that helps a lot Okay, i definitely screwed that up. Sorry about that. They said destiny if we accept that Sock dem is preferred to any other capitalist system Why are you against socialism when sock dem predicates socialism by theory? It's a bad question a sock dem is a capitalist system Social democracy is a capitalist system. Gotcha. Okay. Thanks for that and your good buddy your twin vosh Says all presidents are puppets Says biden is weak and easier to manipulate than trump from a progressive perspective Become the puppet master hashtag bully biden Are we supposed to respond to that if you'd like you can I agree with that the people that biden would choose to pull his strings I'm probably gonna be more in favor of than the people that trump would choose I'd rather have whatever pulling biden strings than bolton or somebody like that pulling trump strings Gotcha and if you if you had anything to add kim, I was thinking it was more targeted toward destiny, but My old Go ahead. I don't think trump have I mean, I think trump is mercurial and he changes his mind a lot I don't think people are actually Pulling his strings. I don't think trump is a puppet. I think he's just Changes his mind on a whim a lot, you know, he'll listen to some people and it'll be like, okay I agree with that and then he'll kind of move forward with that a little bit and then he'll say, oh wait No, I changed my mind. I don't like that anymore. I think that's why they want to get rid of him I think that's why many of the establishment have been really uncomfortable with him because he's not as easy to Gauge or manipulate biden on the other hand. I do think is totally and completely going to be manipulated Gotcha miles kinslow. Thanks for your question said hey guys. I honestly can't take the biden Seriously, he seems confused. This does go back to a something that came up during the conversation earlier Is that destiny? I know that you had said Well, we can't really from these like sound bites.  Thanks for your question said. Hey destiny. Are you aware of the situation with progressive quote-unquote crystal ball and her subtle endorsement of far-right populace like Let me know if I mispronounce this cigar S-a-g Thank you and tucker carlson. If so, what are your thoughts?  I've seen a lot of lefties that go into this weird path where they get like Enticed by tucker carlson's populist rhetoric and they ignore all the racialized. It's really weird Well, he's definitely he has a lot of bad racial takes for sure I mean, you know, there's like suspicion about that guy when it comes to that But his populist takes are quite left So I could see why I love populists. I mean populism can be either left or right right Gotcha and steven steen. Thanks for your super chat. Appreciate it. Fabian dillon. Thanks for yours Also said thank you for this debate everyone super entertaining love listening to these And much love god bless. Thank you fabian for your support and all credit to kim and destiny This is honestly we've got a ton of positive feedback I hope you guys know that on this side in the chat people really enjoyed listening to you guys tasty Therian thanks for your question said to kim what specifically on foreign policy is Trump better than biden with Oh, I feel like I went through a bunch of that fair enough Feel like I went through a bunch of that on I would say the one thing I think he's not better on is iran and israel but israel's to be debated because i'm not sure how biden would act Once he gets into the white house with israel. It's possible. He'll just be similar On that front But iran for sure trump is worse at but I feel like I went through all of the rest of them You bet and marcus arelias. Thanks for your question says destiny Please be stoic steve and read the meditations Got it. Must be one of your buddies. I don't know so Um, maybe I don't even mean I don't know if it's the real mark as it really is.  Thanks for your question says I was just wondering how much the kremlin is paying kim Iverson for her efforts to try to split the vote in favor of trump Oh, here we go with russia gate, huh? I Loaded the money. I'm becoming a millionaire as we speak. Well, hope to be fair. You did receive some money from a Syrian funded foundation right for some of the work that you've done. Yeah, there were you know, I don't know Where if they were funded by syria, you know, that was something that some investigative journalists said that these People were somehow connected to syria I won an award that was gifted to many of us independent journalists And I was never told why I won the award like for which coverage in particular And I was never told To like that was it. I was never said they never influenced or said anything. I literally don't know for which coverage I only figured out the coverage later When I actually had an opportunity to meet with one of the members of that Of that fund and he was Iranian and he was specifically discussing my coverage on Iran. So I don't you know I heard that but those of us that received it said, I mean all of us have the same We we were not even contact. We don't know who we didn't know anything. It was completely For us they didn't come and say hey, we like your coverage on syria. Here's an award that just didn't happen They didn't say anything Gotcha and antsy servisto. Thanks for your encouragement said it's been amazing. Keep it up. This has been truly amazing I couldn't agree more and it also reminded me of something I want to mention Just to clarify for the both the sake of kim and destiny that originally And this is both everybody's on the same page where over the emails It originally started with like trump versus biden and then it evolved through emails both destiny and kim Did no coming into this that it was kind of like more like is it biden or never biden and that's something that I just Really didn't up uh, you could say I didn't really upgrade or update that on the thumbnail So I just want to let you know that that's kind of why the conversation has been way more centered on biden today And factionalist network. Thanks for your question said destiny Do you think that there is similarity in your logic between your position against third party support? and Pascal's wager I think Pascal's wager is a really stupid argument anyway Next thank you for that. Tyler Preston your question says obama orders drone strikes in the middle east that killed over 500 including children gets a Nobel peace prize while trump arranges for a peaceful negotiation with Iran and gets labeled as a mega satan I think that's for you destiny if you uh I mean, I don't know what I'm so I mean like I'm like the amount of drone strikes that we did in yemen increased um under trump I don't I don't support obama's actions in syria or yemen I think we should maybe take a little bit of a harsher stance towards people in the golf states although admittedly that's a very complicated issue But yeah, I'm not going to sit here and support like any type of like war in yemen like the prior administration that was there was corrupt as fuck and Saudi support for people there is pretty fucked but understandably saudi doesn't want saudi arabia doesn't want a country to the south of them that has leadership that's loyal to Um to to iran so I mean, I don't know. It's the rough one Gotcha, and thanks for your question.  She says trump hasn't has not gotten us into any new wars Because his advisors were scared to give him military options due to the fact that he's so unhinged Kim, I think there's a challenge for you So wait, what was it again? Sorry? They said the only reason that trump hasn't gotten us into any new wars was because his advisors were scared to give him Military options open to that due to the fact that he's so unhinged Oh, no, they gave him plenty. I mean when bolton was there. He was trying to talk him into all kinds of wars He's trying to talk him into iran. He was trying to talk into him to into more military intervention into venezuela They've absolutely tried to talk him into wars. He's just refused which is what bolton lays out in his book Gotcha, and let's see Rumpley de pew. Sorry. I I appreciate your super chat. Let's see. It's more seems more personally oriented So we're gonna pass it our father in the green. Thanks for your super chat said And that one's that last one's gray. So it's kind of like I'm being strict They said desing do you seriously trust the dnc to carry out quote most progressivism? The most progressive platform and do you think that biden and his admins should be one term only I mean how you carry your stuff out is going to depend on the composition of congress Like the president doesn't have that much deference to just unilaterally Well, I guess unless you try to abuse eos like crazy like I guess trump has when Citing tariffs is like national security measures and stuff But like generally like you need popular support to do it if the democrats want to be able to get their agenda passed Then they can't just winning the presidency isn't enough. You have to win that house in congress as well or the house in the senate as well So it'll it'll come down to those elections basically to see how much of any particular person's agenda can get passed Gotcha and bricks. Thanks for your question said destiny when advocating for biden Do you find it most difficult to speak to right-leaning or far left? Never biden type people. Do they have significantly different reasons for disliking biden? Um, I don't know. I think most of the reasons why people get for disliking biden are usually this assumption that biden and trump are similar on things which and I that was kind of what we open this like this vague like Reference to neoliberalism, but I think when it comes to policy, I think biden and trump almost couldn't be more different in some ways I don't know. It's usually I just get down into policy discussions like well What what policies do they support and I feel like you see like pretty big differences from the tone Gotcha, let's see Let's say uk marxism dlc failed. Thanks for your question. I think it's partially Ingest but also they said the fact that biden is your best bet is satire in real life true or trump very funny, but Would you say so destiny all things being equal if you didn't have Trump as the alternative Like on a scale of 1 to 10 I'm curious like and we could do this for each of you like how much do you like biden on a scale of 1 to 10 In you could say kind of in a vacuum without trump is the only alternative Um, I think he's okay. He gets the job done I like I have my economic positions and everything I feel are like very data-driven And I feel like most people don't care about like what data-driven economic positions are anymore It's generally all like appeasing some popular rhetoric. So I don't know in that sense I'm not too thrilled about it But there's no politician that I think really looks to like data-driven answers on problems. I don't know I mean, he's he's good. I guess that the democrats can do this Gotcha And layman, thanks for your question said kim. What's your definition of quote neo liberal unquote? definition of neo liberal so Um for me that would be definitely opening up Free trade just complete free trade, you know just Ignoring any sort of control measures on banks or corporations or trade Gotcha, I would say is more neo liberal And Beyonce had one of the best I can't read the rest of your your name is too long But they said these debates should be two hours plus one hour of qna Should go point by point, but if not then you james should moderate interruptions better We like giving our critics a voice. So thanks for that. We'll seriously consider it. We appreciate that That was the only criticism earlier. They said, oh, they talked too long and that was a super chat. We skipped but uh Like I said, it's true. We I mean, we're pretty spontaneous We're like just kind of let it go with the flow and so but yes, I will I'll consider that doinberg. Thanks for your question Appreciate it and tioga. Thank you for yours said remember when destiny laughed at vietnam for quote losing to capitalism Has he changed his stance on american imperialism since talking to luna Never let first of all luna is a fucking moron, but I never laughed at vietnam from losing to america I just said that if you're going to give the excuse that well socialism doesn't work because capitalist countries always serve socialist countries And I said well, I don't want to be part of a socialist country that gets destroyed by a capitalist country It's not a good argument. That's all I said Gotcha ray asked thanks for your question said we briefly touched the Let me know if I mispronounce this ugar Ugar Ugar Ugar Ugar Weaker, thank you. Issue earlier. I know kim has some interesting takes on the matter. Can we elaborate on it? It's a long answer, but I'll try to do my best to make it short Long story short with the Uygar issue in china is that china made the same mistake the united states made back in the seventies of arming training and facilitating extremists in order to defeat Russia. So China also had this, oh, Russia is going to come get us. So the United States did it with al-Qaeda when we were in Afghanistan in the 70s and 80s, when we were arming and training the Mujahideen, which ultimately ended up becoming al-Qaeda and Taliban and all of these different factions. And so China made that same mistake and so they're seeing, they've seen a major rise in extremism in that region of the country. And these are not, you know, here in America a lot of times and we see extremists or whatever we say, oh, we'll just deport them. Well, China doesn't have that option. They are Chinese, they are, but they are extreme in their ideology for Islam. Islam is not, you know, there are some factions that are just really extreme inside, just like there are extreme factions inside Christianity and whatnot. So they're trying to figure out a creative way to get control over that extremist ideology and, you know, criticize it all you want. I don't think anybody's come up with a really good solution. Our solution has been bombing. Our solution has been going in and murdering people in order to get them to change their ways. China is trying to take this different approach of maybe we can reprogram them by putting them into reeducation camps. That being said, my grandfather went to a reeducation camp. I am Vietnamese. My grandfather was put into a four-year reeducation camp. So it's like not lost, you know, not lost on me. What a reeducation camp, you know, the whole concept of it is pretty, it's common in Asia, I should say. Gotcha. And thank you for elaborating on that. And then our father. Be clear. So we believe it's happening. We're just OK with it is essentially your answer, right? I just don't think it's what people think it is necessarily. I think that, you know, you would want to reeducate people who have extremist ideology, right? So you'd want to figure out a way rather than harm them or fight them. You'd want to try to figure out a way to try to reeducate people out of really extremist ideology. Do you believe that they're like separating children from their families and everything in order to put children into reeducation camps? Yeah, probably. Yeah, probably. They're probably doing that. That's like I mean, it's not. Like to me, what's the alternative to bomb them? I don't think that's moral either. I don't know what I don't think we've come up with a good solution for battling extremism for Islamic extremism. It's very different than white nationalist extremism here in the United States. You know, Islamic extremism, they're able to raise armies, full on armies and take over complete regions of the world. So it's a real serious threat. And I don't know if anybody in the world has come up with a really good solution. I know that like Denmark said, well, maybe we should stick them all on an island and isolate them and let them have at it out there.  That is China's solution. I do think it's better than bombing them. Are all are these millions of Uyghurs, all of them are extremists and require the education of their culture or well, many of that. It's I'm not 100 percent certain. But if they're following Wahhabism, then yes, and Wahhabism has because of Saudi Arabia's oil money has been able to go and export this version of it's a it's a perverted version of Islam around the world using a lot of money and they build mosques. They train imams. They then export a very radical version of Islam that, quite frankly, for people in the Middle East who are not Wahhabists are very frightened of it. Gotcha. And next question. This one comes in from our father in the green says, does destiny see it as an imperative to replace Biden and his administration? Successors with legit progressives in leadership in 2024, thus killing tubers with one stone.  I'm not looking ahead and pass that like anything can happen in the coming months. It'll depend on how Biden's presidency goes. I have a hard time imagining anybody in their 80s running for reelection. Jesus fuck, but I guess it can happen that it seems. I don't think he's going to rerun. I think he already said he wasn't going to, right? I remember that during the election. I think he said something about that. I don't know if that's been brought up again, but yeah, I don't know. We'll see what happens. Gotcha. And Robert Luscombe, thanks for your question, said, Kim, you are supporting a man who literally prefers letting people die so he can get reelected, example, not wanting sufficient testing because he feels the number of COVID-19 cases makes him look bad. Yeah, so, I mean, I don't know if I think it's I think you could say that you could connect some dots and say, well, he'd rather people die. But I don't think that's really what he's saying or really. I think that's sort of a, you know, sort of straw manning his position. I don't know. I think COVID is a whole different animal and a whole different beast. And I'm not sure if anyone could really get it's been a disaster all around the world with many leaders all around the world. There have only been some select areas that seem to have done better than others. So in this country, even I think it's a disaster. I mean, California, where I live, we have a Democratic governor. We've been under lockdown for a long time. We've had masks orders for a long time and it's still rising and spiking here. I mean, COVID is like a whole different beast. And I know a lot of people will probably judge Trump on based on COVID. I don't think his response was good. I also think, you know, because I think he could have rallied the troops up a bit, let's say, and and and gone full throttle in in production of masks and telling people to wear masks. And I'm not the testing thing. I think we had an issue with getting the materials and we needed to get those from another country. I think that's one of the challenges, same with some medications and needed to come from India. They weren't willing to ship them out. I mean, there's a lot of stuff I think that, like I said, it's just kind of light on the fact that we are to import heavy as a nation. But we do have to remember, we're not really a nation. We're a federation. And that federation of 50 governors, all 50 governors got to do what they wanted to do. It's like herding cats, trying to get all of them on the same page for some sort of response. So I don't know. I mean, it's a tough one. I don't think, but I don't think anybody real. I mean, I guess you could say the same thing that another candidate wanting people to die. You know, you could say Biden wants people to die in Venezuela because he wants to go and do regime change in Venezuela in order to get votes from people. Gotcha. You could say that about anybody. And General Balzac, thanks for your question said, would Biden's this is both of your, you can answer this. I think this would be really interesting. They said, would Biden's selection for VP change your stance on whether or not you will vote for him? And in particular, of those who would be plausible VP candidates, is there someone that would change your mind about Biden?  Not literally, but like realistically, I don't think there's a person that Trump could or I'm sorry, I don't think there's a person that Biden could nominate as VP that would make me more likely to want to vote for Trump. I just can't see that happening. I think that the talk I've heard floated around a lot is actually Kamala Harris, which wouldn't be anywhere near enough to dissuade me from voting for Biden. Gotcha. Yeah, for me, I mean, Biden, you know, he could win my vote if he were to select as his vice president pick either Bernie Sanders or Tulsi Gabbard. So if he were to go in that direction, I know he's not going to, but if he woke up today and decided that he was going to make an announcement, it was going to be Bernie or Tulsi, I think he could win my vote. But otherwise, Kamala Harris for sure he's not going to win my vote or Susan Rice for sure, not for sure. And gamer Haney, thanks for your question. We've only got several more said, Kim, what are your thoughts on the value of multiculturalism in a democracy? Well, well, I mean, it's to me very important. I'm half Asian, half, you know, I'm half Danish, half Vietnamese, so I'm all about multiculturalism. I definitely, you know, that is the one downside for conservative, you know, many downsides. I don't agree really with Republicans on anything. And one of the, I would say that neoliberals have been pretty much the same as conservatives, except they have added multiculturalism into their platform more than conservatives have, you know, that's one of their differences. There are other differences would be climate and used to be more on foreign policy, but I think that's now been taken by the Trump side of things. So, you know, multiculturalism is really important for sure. Yeah, you bet. And so, Laura, thanks for your question said, Kim, what one thing would be the most influential and changing your mind about Biden? Like I said, if he were to select Bernie or Tulsi as his VP pick, two people that I could trust more, you know, then I would, that would definitely change my mind. But other than that, to me, it's just a wash between the two. I just think they're both really bad. I'm not going to vote for either of them. And yeah, so maybe like his VP pick, I guess, because I don't think he's going to be in office for three, I think he's got three, two and a half years, and then they're going to move the VP in. Gotcha. And Taliesin Oberlander, thanks for your question, said, and I'm wondering, Destiny, is this like a meme at your channel or is this, they say, Destiny, I'm obligated to inform you you're white? Yeah, that's it. What? I don't know. Blue lives.  Whether they're not white or whether they are white, it just makes everybody really mad. What? Blue Lens, thanks for your question, said, can Kim expand upon her numerous comments about Israel and what is Destiny's stance on Israel as well? So Israel, like, the United States and Israel have this really strong alliance. And it's an alliance that is beneficial in both ways. So for Israel, they get the protection. They've made best friends with the largest military might in the world, which allows them to be protected, considering that they're in a backyard of the world that doesn't want them there. So for them, it's really important to have the United States as their ally. And because of that, they've been able to gain quite a bit of influence in our political sphere through a variety of different ways. And so in a lot of ways, we help them out by doing things that they want done, like picking fights in the Middle East and destabilizing regions.  And so we do a lot of their bidding. And in exchange, they do some for us, too. They do things that we are not legally able to do because of our Constitution or conventions that we've signed, PACs we've signed. And so we have this sort of military arm that can get away with a lot of bad things that we ourselves cannot. So it works out in both favor. And it's something that we're supporting them with a ton of money that Americans should be more aware of and really questioning that alliance, just as much as America is questioning our alliance with Saudi Arabia. Gotcha. Agreement destiny or? Yeah, I mean, largely like the US wants allies in the Middle East. If you ever looking for like, why is the US doing this? Like usually the answer is, well, because some ally, there's some US interest in that region that could be an ally that we're either implicitly or explicitly defending. Obviously, Israel has very negative opinions towards Iran. Iran has very negative opinions with Israel. Iran's support of Hezbollah and Lebanon. It's obviously not something that, and then by extension, that Hamas is obviously something that Israel is not very thrilled with. But Iran also, as Kim pointed out, fights with Saudi Arabia a lot as well. Just recently, I mean, what we've seen like the limpid mind stuff. We've seen the drone attacks on the oil rigs and everything. Like, yeah, the back and forth between those two countries has been a lot. I mean, the US has interest in the region that we want to defend. And so we work for their bidding.  But yeah, I think the simple explanation is that the US is interested in having allies in that region, Israel's an ally in that region. You bet. And Matthew Steele, last question of the day. So they had asked, my guess is, it's probably been clear. I guess maybe we wouldn't know for sure between Tulsi or Bernie. But they had asked Kim, who is your ideal candidate for president this year, and why? Gabbard was my ideal pick, and still is. And I'll probably write in her name, quite honestly. So the reason is because she's very progressive left of even Bernie Sanders on all of her policies. She's fighting for clean water, clean air. Obviously, she's very against all of these regime change wars. She's been against the interventionism and continuing escalations and Cold War escalations. And she's just all around. She's a true leftist candidate, is what I would say with Tulsi. A true leftist. And we haven't seen one of those. She's even more left than Bernie. But at the same time, appealing to the some people on the right, populist right-winger, I think she would have been a fantastic candidate that would have brought in a lot of those people that are more libertarian, that are on the right. And I think she absolutely would have been the one candidate that could have actually defeated Donald Trump. Gotcha. And want to say thanks, everybody, for hanging out with us. Do want to give you a quick reminder in case you forgot. If you have not already been able to visit Destiny or Kim's channels, they're linked in the description. So you've got to at least check it out. Give it a try. And so I want to say thanks so much, though. Destiny and Kim, it's been a true pleasure to have you. Like I said, people have really enjoyed this. It's been a great time. Thank you. Absolutely. With that, folks, we hope you have a great weekend. We are excited as we will have on a lot of debates in the future. And we hope you feel welcome for those debates. No matter what walk of life you're from, folks, we really do hope you feel welcome. And so hopefully we'll see you for some of those. And otherwise, keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable, folks, and have a great rest of your weekend.