Hey, this is Brett, and this, 2022 Ram 2500 Crew Cab Short Box, Big Horn Level A is stock number 14229Z. I am here at Summit Automotive in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, you're new and used heavy-duty truck and specifically Ram headquarters. This 2022 Ram 2500 has the 6.7 liter Cummins diesel engine. It is paired up with the 6-speed 68 RFE automatic transmission. All of our vehicles go through 130-point state of Wisconsin required inspection process. They get a fresh oil and filter change on the fluids, get checked and topped off, and vehicles made sure that it's safe before going on our lot. I'm gonna go all the way around in this video, inside, underneath, start it up and take a look under the hood to give you the most accurate representation possible of this truck. Bright white clear coats of color. I shoot all my videos in 4K. If you like the video, consider subscribing to the YouTube channel. Click the bell notifications, get updates in the videos. I do each and every day of our new and used inventory here at Summit Auto. And this one is not new, but it is like new, very low miles on this truck. Comes with the 18-inch polished aluminum wheels. It has Firestone Trans Force AT tires. These are LT 275 70R 18s. They have just about all the tread left. In fact, you can still see some of the little wear knobs on there from being brand new. Frame and underbody is like new. This is a one-owner clean title history, clean car facts out of Louisiana. Front fenders absolutely perfect. Headlight lenses are nice and clear and it does come with the factory fog lights as well as the front bumper parking sensors. The grille is absolutely perfect as well. And the hood, no major dents or dings on there. Passenger side front fender, absolutely perfect too. And the passenger side front wheel, no major scuffs or scrapes on there. As you go down this side of this 2022 Ram 2500, take note of how clean that body is, how reflective and mirror-like that paint is. I take these HD videos, so if you're far away or even if you're close by and you just cannot make the trip down but you're still interested in purchasing the vehicle, you can see the truck, hear the truck, and have confidence in the vehicle that you're looking at before you even get here. So when you do get here, there's absolutely no surprises. You can make a smart and informed buying decision from wherever you're at. Now if this video helps you make that buying decision, definitely let your salesman know that you saw the video that it was helpful and that Brett sent you back wheels like new as well. And the back tires have just as much tread as the front tires. Frame and underbody back here looks really good. Like that all the way underneath has all the remaining factory exhaust. That exhaust looks new as well. Very, very clean. Comes with the factory chrome step bars and on the passenger side box, no major dents or dings on there. Rear bumper is in excellent condition and a full towing package of course with the receiver hitch four pin and seven pin wiring. Now this one has a max towing capacity of 19,956 pounds and has a max payload of 2,177 pounds. Found those numbers on Graham's ToeGuide website. I'll link that in the description below. This is a factory spray and bed liner and you get some nice side box tie downs back here. Beds absolutely perfect. I don't even know if it's ever been used and the bed liner goes onto that tailgate as well. Shuts nice and solidly as you go down the driver's side just as clean as that passenger side, no dents or dings on there.  This one does have the heated fold up tow mirrors built in directional signals. They fold up like so. They also fold in like that. Take a quick look at the back seats. I don't think they've ever been sat in. Latch child safety system for any child car seats you may have. Fixed glass rear window with the built in rear frost and very, very clean. These seats fold up like so. You get a load floor back here, which is nice. You got muddy boots or tools. Put them on there.  This one does come with the winter front storage underneath there. And then you get the in floor storage on each side with removable bins for easy cleaning. You can put ice and drinks in there and it's like you have two mini-courses wherever you go. Or if you're not in Wisconsin, just extra storage space. You get the side turn airbags. Inside of the doors look perfect. Let child safety locks for the back doors and the bottom is an inside of the doors look like new. Show you the VIN sticker here. No Canadian trucks here. Also the tire and loading information sticker. Inside the Bighorn Level A package gives you the dark or the gray and black cloth interior power driver's seat. 40, 20, 40 split bench seating in the front. No rips, no tears in those seats. That seat still got the old tigger on it. Driver's side lumbar factory floor mats in the front. Auto headlamps, power pedals, power windows locks, mirrors you get the cloth bolster and the wood grain trim on the door there. Hop inside and show you the miles, radio and everything that this truck has to offer. On the interior. And no, this is not a mistake. This one only has 340 miles on it. So super low miles, a digital speedometer, compass display and the instrument cluster is very nice and clean. This truck's never been smoked in. The steering wheel is like new. Cruise controls, gear selector, Bluetooth and information center controls on the left, audio controls in the back. There's your shifter for that six feet, 68 RFE automatic transmission. Push button start, push button four wheel drive. This one comes with the Uconnect 5 radio, AM FM and Sirius XM radio capabilities. You have your home screen here. You get all your different apps that you can do. This one has Android Auto and Apple CarPlay on it. So you can project your cell phone to the screen. And if you have a nav system on your phone you can project it right to the screen. So that's pretty sweet. This one does not have the factory navigation system but you can do it that way. To get nav on there, back up camera, made those nice and crystal clear in HD and you can zoom in on that receiver hitch to get hooked up to your boat camper or trailer the first time, every time. Down here you're more tactile volume tune and climate controls. Factory brake controller. You get a coin slot holder there. Factory exhaust brake, tow hall mode, front and rear parking sensors, two USBs, two USB C's and an aux jack. Here is your keyless entry. It's in nice shape. And you do get a glove box here. And then there's another glove box underneath there. Ascender side format and seat are absolutely perfect.  I don't think it's ever been smoked in. Headliner is absolutely perfect. Map lights, assistant SOS buttons, home link buttons for your garage door security systems and lighting systems and an auto dimmy mirror. We'll start it up. Take a look under the hood. Starts right up. Check engine lights or anything like that. I would personally like to thank you for checking out the video today. And hopefully from this HD video, you've been able to verify the quality condition options and miles on this truck. Under the hood, we have the 6.7 liter Cummins diesel engine and Jimi is very clean, like new. Once again, all of our vehicles go through 130 point inspection. We get a fresh oil and filter change on the fluids get checked and topped off and made 100% sure that they're safe before being sold to our customers. There's the emissions sticker. And this truck is 100% ready to go. I would highly recommend this truck from a quality and conditions standpoint. I'd ship this one anywhere, California, Texas, New York, Florida, back to Louisiana, wherever whoever's gonna get this truck's gonna love it. It's like new, can't go wrong. And to see more pictures of this truck on one of our other 550 new new Scars trucks, SCVs, minivans, wranglers, half tons, three coder tons, one tons, you name it, we gotta go to the website right there. Summitauto.com, full pictures and descriptions of every single vehicle all at summitauto.com. If you'd like to check out more HD videos, go to youtube.com slash summitauto, click the bell notifications, get updates on the videos they do each and every day as well as having access to one of the largest catalogs of vehicle and heavy duty truck walk-arounds on YouTube, almost 9,000 videos in county. In fact, the second you see a link to subscribe to my YouTube channel on the upper left, a link to all the Ram 259 truck videos I've ever done in the upper right. Link to this vehicle on our website and lower left. And a link to one of our latest YouTube videos in the lower right. Click those check us out. We're super excited to help you with this like new 2022 Ram 2500 crew cab short box, big horn level A and bright light rear coat. Thanks again for checking out the video. Remember to like, subscribe and share on the YouTube channel. I really appreciate it. Thanks again.


From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. The latest ARM NeoVerse announcement further cements our opinion that its architecture, business model, and ecosystem execution are defining a new era of computing and leaving Intel in its dust. We believe the company and its partners have at least a two-year lead on Intel and are currently in a far better position to capitalize on the major waves that are driving the technology industry and its innovation. To compete, our view is that Intel needs a new strategy. Now, Pat Gelsinger is bringing that, but they also need financial support from the US and the EU governments. Pat Gelsinger was just noted as asking or requesting from the EU government $9 billion, sorry, the 8 billion euros in financial support. And very importantly, Intel needs a volume for its new foundry business. And that is where Apple could be a key. Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights, powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we'll explain why Apple could be the key to saving Intel and America's semiconductor industry leadership. We'll also further explore our scenario of the evolution of computing and what will happen to Intel if it can't catch up. Here's a hint, it's not pretty. Let's start by looking at some of the key assumptions that we've made that are informing our scenarios. We've pointed out many times that we believe ARM wafer volumes are approaching 10 times those of x86 wafers. This means that manufacturers of ARM chips have a significant cost advantage over Intel. We've covered that extensively, but we repeat it because when we see news reports and analysis in print, it's not a factor that anybody's highlighting. And this is probably the most important issue that Intel faces. And it's why we feel that Apple could be Intel's savior. We'll come back to that. We project that the chip shortage will last no less than three years, perhaps even longer. As we reported in a recent Breaking Analysis, while Moore's law is waning, the result of Moore's law, i.e. the doubling of processor performance every 18 to 24 months is actually accelerating. We've observed and continue to project a quadrupling of performance every two years, breaking historical norms. ARM is attacking the enterprise and the data center. We see hyperscalers as the tip of their entry spear. AWS's Graviton chip is the best example. Amazon and other cloud vendors that have engineering and software capabilities are making ARM-based chips capable of running general-purpose applications. This is a huge threat to x86. And if Intel doesn't respond quickly, we believe ARM will gain a 50% share of enterprise semiconductor spend by 2030. We see the definition of cloud expanding. Cloud is no longer a remote set of services in the cloud. Rather, it's expanding to the edge where the edge could be a data center, a data closet or a true edge device or system. And ARM is, by far in our view, in the best position to support the new workloads and computing models that are emerging as a result. And finally, geopolitical forces are at play here. We believe the US government will do or at least should do everything possible to ensure that Intel and the US chip industry regain its leadership position in the semiconductor business. If they don't, the US and Intel could fade to irrelevance. Let's look at this last point and make some comments on that. Here's a map of the South China Sea. And way off in the Pacific, we've superimposed a little pie chart and we asked ourselves, if you had a hundred points of strategic value to allocate, how much would you put in the semiconductor manufacturing bucket and how much would go to design? And our conclusion was 50-50. Now it used to be because of Intel's dominance with x86 and its volume that the United States was number one in both strategic areas. But today, that orange slice of the pie is dominated by TSMC, thanks to ARM volumes. Now we've reported extensively on this and we don't want to dwell on it for too long, but on all accounts, cost, technology, volume, TSMC is the clear leader here. China's president Xi has a stated goal of unifying Taiwan by China's centennial in 2049. Will this tiny island nation, which dominates a critical part of the strategic semiconductor pie, go the way of Hong Kong and be subsumed into China? Well, military experts say it would be very hard for China to take Taiwan by force without heavy losses and some serious international repercussions. The U.S.'s military presence in the Philippines and Okinawa and Guam combined with support from Japan and South Korea would make it even more difficult. And certainly the Taiwanese people you would think would prefer their independence, but Taiwanese leadership, it ebbs and flows between those hardliners who really want to separate and want independence and those that are more sympathetic to China. Could China, for example, use cyber warfare to over time control the narrative in Taiwan? Remember, if you control the narrative, you can control the meme. If you control the meme, you can control the idea. If you control the idea, you can control the belief system. And if you control the belief system, you can control the population without firing a shot. So is it possible that over the next 25 years, China could weaponize propaganda and social media to reach its objectives with Taiwan? Maybe it's a long shot, but if you're a senior strategist in the U.S. government, would you want to leave that to chance? We don't think so. Let's park that for now and double click on one of our key findings. And that is the pace of semiconductor performance gains. As we first reported a few weeks ago, while Moore's law is moderating, the outlook for cheap, dense, and efficient processing power has never been better. This slide shows two simple log lines. One is the traditional Moore's law curve. That's the one at the bottom. And the other is the current pace of system performance improvement that we're seeing measured in trillions of operations per second. Now, if you calculate the historical annual rate of processor performance improvement that we saw with this x86, the math comes out to around 40% improvement per year. Now that rate is slowing. It's now down to around 30% annually. So we're not quite doubling every 24 months anymore with x86, and that's why people say Moore's law is dead. But if you look at the combinatorial effects of packaging CPUs, GPUs, NPUs, accelerators, DSPs, and all the alternative processing power you can find in SOC's system on chip. And eventually system on package, it's growing at more than 100% per annum. And this means that the processing power is now quadrupling every 24 months. That's impressive. And the reason we're here is ARM. ARM has redefined the core processor model for a new era of computing. ARM made an announcement last week, which really recycles some old content from last September, but it also put forth new proof points on adoption and performance. ARM laid out three components in its announcement. The first was Neoverse version one, which is all about extending vector performance. This is critical for high performance computing, HPC, which at one point you thought that was a niche, but it is the AI platform. AI workloads are not a niche. Second, ARM announced the Neoverse N2 platform based on the recently introduced ARM V9. We talked about that a lot in one of our earlier breaking analyses. This got a performance boost of around 40%. Now the third was called CMN 700. ARM maybe needs to work on some of its names, but ARM said this is the industry's most advanced mesh interconnect. This is the glue for the V1 and the N2 platforms. The importance is it allows for more efficient use and sharing of memory resources across components of the system package. We talked about this extensively in previous episodes, the importance of that capability. Now let's share with you. This wheel diagram underscores the completeness of the ARM platform. ARM's approach is to enable flexibility across an open ecosystem, allowing for value add at many levels. ARM has built the architecture and design and allows an open ecosystem to provide the value added software. Now very importantly, ARM has created the standards and specifications by which they can with certainty, certify that the foundry can make the chips to a high quality standard. And importantly, that all the applications are going to run properly. In other words, if you design an application, it will work across the ecosystem and maintain backwards compatibility with previous generations. Like Intel has done for years, but ARM as we'll see next is positioning not only for existing workloads, but also the emerging high growth applications to wit. Here's the ARM total available market as we see it. We think the end market spending value of just the chips going into these areas is $600 billion today and it's going to grow to $1 trillion by 2030. In other words, we're allocating the value of the end market spend in these sectors to the marked up value of the silicon as a percentage of the total spend. It's enormous. So the big areas are hyperscale clouds, which we think is around 20% of this TAM and the HPC and AI workloads, which account for about 35% in the edge will ultimately be the largest of all, probably capturing 45%. And these are rough estimates and they'll ebb and flow and there's obviously some overlap but the bottom line is the market is huge and growing very rapidly. And you see that little red highlighted area, that's enterprise IT, traditional IT and that's the x86 market in context. So it's relatively small and what's happening is we're seeing a number of traditional IT vendors packaging x86 boxes, throwing them over the fence and saying, we're going after the edge. And what they're doing is saying, okay, the edge is this aggregation point for all these endpoint devices. We think the real opportunity at the edge is for AI inferencing that that is where most of the activity and most of the spending is going to be and we think ARM is going to dominate that market. And this brings up another challenge for Intel. So we've made the point a zillion times that PC volumes peaked in 2011 and we saw that as problematic for Intel for the cost reasons that we've beat into your head. And lo and behold, PC volumes, they actually grew last year thanks to COVID and will continue to grow, it seems for a year or so. Here's some ETR data that underscores that fact. This chart shows the net score, remember that's spending momentum, it's the breakdown for Dell's laptop business. The green means spending is accelerating and the red is decelerating and the blue line is net score, that's spending momentum. And the trend is up and to the right. Now, as we've said, this is great news for Dell and HP and Lenovo and Apple for its laptops, all the laptop sellers, but it's not necessarily great news for Intel. Why? I mean, it's okay, but what it does is it shifts Intel's product mix toward lower margin PC chips and it squeezes Intel's gross margins. So the CFO has to explain that margin contraction to Wall Street. Imagine that, the business that got Intel to its monopoly status is growing faster than the high margin server business and that's pulling margins down. So as we said, Intel is fighting a war on multiple fronts. It's battling AMD in the Core X86 business, both PCs and servers. It's watching ARM mop up in mobile. It's trying to figure out how to reinvent itself and change its culture to allow more flexibility into its designs and it's spinning up a foundry business to compete with TSMC. So it's got to fund all this while at the same time propping up its stock with buybacks. Intel last summer announced that it was accelerating its $10 billion stock buyback program. 10 billion dollars, buy stock back or build a foundry. Which do you think is more important for the future of Intel in the US semiconductor industry? So Intel, it's got to protect its past while building its future and placating Wall Street all at the same time. And here's where it gets even more dicey. Intel's got to protect its high-end X86 business. It is the cash cow and funds their operation. Who's Intel's biggest customer? Dell, HP, Facebook, Google, Amazon? Well, let's just say Amazon is a big customer. Can we agree on that? And we know AWS's biggest revenue generator is EC2. And EC2 was powered by microprocessors made from Intel and others. We found this slide in the ARM NeoVerse deck and it caught our attention. The data comes from a data platform called Lifter Insights. The charts show the rapid growth of AWS's Graviton chips, which are their custom design chips based on ARM, of course. The blue is that Graviton and the black vendor A presumably is Intel and the gray is assumed to be AMD. The iPopper is the 2020 pie chart. The instant deployment is nearly 50% are Graviton.  You don't wanna lose this customer and you're gonna do everything in your power to keep them, but the trend is not your friend in this account. Now the story gets even gnarlier. Here's the killer chart. It shows the ISV ecosystem platforms that run on Graviton too. Because AWS has such good engineering and controls its own stack, it can build ARM based chips that run software designed to run on general purpose x86 systems. Yes, it's true, the ISVs, they gotta do some work, but large ISVs, they have a huge incentives because they wanna ride the AWS wave. Certainly the user doesn't know or care, but AWS cares because it's driving costs and energy consumption down and performance up. Lower cost, higher performance. Sounds like something Amazon wants to consistently deliver, right? And the ISV portfolio that runs on ARM based Graviton is just gonna continue to grow. And by the way, it's not just Amazon, it's Alibaba, it's Oracle, it's Marvell, it's Tencent, the list keeps growing. ARM trotted out a number of names and I would expect over time it's gonna be Facebook and Google and Microsoft if they're not already there. Now, the last piece of the ARM architecture story that we wanna share is the progress that they're making and compare that to x86. This chart shows how ARM is innovating and let's start with the first line under platform capabilities, number of cores supported per die or system.  Think of the die as a circuit diagram of the chip, if you will. In these circuits, they're fabricated on wafers using photolithography. The wafers then cut up into many pieces, each one having a chip. Each of these pieces is the chip and two chips make up a system. The key here is that ARM is quadrupling the number of cores. Instead of increasing thread counts, it's giving you cores. Cores are better than threads because threads are shared and cores are independent and much easier to virtualize. This is particularly important in situations where you want to be as efficient as possible, sharing massive resources like the cloud. Now as you can see in the right hand side of the chart under the orange, ARM is dramatically increasing the amount of capabilities compared to previous generations. And one of the other highlights to us is that last line, the CCIX and CXL support. Again, ARM maybe needs to name these better. These refer to ARM's memory sharing capabilities within and between processors. This allows CPUs, GPUs, NPUs, et cetera to share resources very efficiently, especially compared to the way x86 works where everything is currently controlled by the x86 processor. CCIX and CXL support, on the other hand, will allow designers to program the system and share memory wherever they want within the system directly and not have to go through the overhead of a central processor, which owns the memory. So for example, if there's a CPU, GPU, NPU, the CPU can say to the GPU, give me your results at a specified location and signal me when you're done. So when the GPU is finished calculating and sending the results, the GPU just signals the operation as it's complete versus having to ping the CPU constantly, which is overhead intensive. Now composability in that chart means the system, it's not fixed, rather you can programmatically change the characteristics of the system on the fly. For example, if the NPU is idle, you can allocate more resources to other parts of the system. Now Intel is doing this too in the future, but we think ARM is way ahead at least by two years. This is also huge for NVIDIA, which today relies on x86. A major problem for NVIDIA has been coherent memory management because the utilization of its GPU is appallingly low and it can't be easily optimized. Last week, NVIDIA announced its intent to provide an AI capability for the data center without x86, i.e. using ARM-based processors. So NVIDIA, another big Intel customer, is also moving to ARM. And if it's successful acquiring ARM, which is still a long shot, this trend is only gonna accelerate. But the bottom line is if Intel can't move fast enough to stem the momentum of ARM, we believe ARM will capture 50% of the enterprise semiconductor spending by 2030. So how does Intel continue to lead? Well, it's not gonna be easy. Remember, we said Intel can't go it alone. And we posited that the company would have to initiate a joint venture structure. We proposed a triumvirate of Intel, IBM with its power 10 and memory aggregation and memory architecture and Samsung with its volume manufacturing expertise on the premise that it coveted an on US soil presence. Now upon further review, we're not sure that Samsung is willing to give up and contribute its IP to this venture. It's put a lot of money and a lot of emphasis on infrastructure in South Korea. And furthermore, we're not convinced that Arvin Krishna, who we believe ultimately made the call to Jettison's, Jettison IBM's microelectronics business, wants to put his efforts back into manufacturing semiconductors. So we have this conundrum. Intel is fighting AMD, which is already at seven nanometer. Intel has fallen behind in process manufacturing, which is strategically important to the United States, it's military and the nation's competitiveness. Intel is behind the curve on cost and architecture and is losing key customers in the most important market segments. And it's way behind on volume, the critical piece of the pie that nobody ever talks about. Intel must become more price and performance competitive with x86 and bring in new composable designs that maintain x86 compatibility and give the ability to allow customers and designers to add and customize GPUs, NPUs, accelerators, et cetera, all while launching a successful foundry business. Whoo! So we think there's another possibility to this thought exercise. Apple is currently reliant on TSMC and is pushing them hard toward five nanometer. In fact, it's sucking up a lot of that volume and TSMC is maybe not servicing some other customers as well as servicing Apple because it's a bit distracted. And you have this chip shortage. So Apple, because of its size, gets the lion's share here of the attention. But Apple needs a trusted onshore supplier. Sure, TSMC is adding manufacturing capacity in the US and Arizona, but back to our precarious scenario in the South China Sea. Will the US government and Apple sit back and hope for the best? Or will they hope for the best and plan for the worst? Let's face it. If China gains control of TSMC, it could block access for the latest and greatest process technology. Apple just announced that it's investing billions of dollars in semiconductor technology across the US. The US government is pressuring big tech. What about an Apple Intel joint venture? Apple brings the volume, it's cloud, it's cloud, sorry, it's money, it's design leadership, all that to the table. And they could partner with Intel. It gives Intel the foundry business and a guaranteed volume stream. And maybe the US government gives Apple a little bit of breathing room in the whole break up big tech narrative, even though it's not necessarily specifically targeting Apple, but maybe the US government needs to think twice before it attacks big tech and thinks about the longterm strategic ramifications. Wouldn't that be ironic? Apple dumps Intel in favor of ARM for the M1 and then incubates and essentially saves Intel with a pipeline of foundry business. Now, back to IBM in this scenario, we put a question mark on the slide because maybe IBM just gets in the way and why not a nice clean partnership between Intel and Apple? Who knows, maybe Gelsinger can even negotiate this without giving up any equity to Apple, but Apple could be a key ingredient to a cocktail of a new strategy under Pat Gelsinger's leadership, gobs of cash from the US and EU governments and volume from Apple. Whoa, still a long shot, but one worth pursuing because as we've written, Intel is too strategic to fail. Okay, well, what do you think? You can DM me at dvolante or email me at david.volante at siliconangle.com or comment on my LinkedIn post. Remember, these episodes are all available as podcasts, so please subscribe wherever you listen. I publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and don't forget to check out ETR.plus for all the survey analysis. And I want to thank my colleague, David Floyer, for his collaboration on this and other related episodes. This is Dave Volante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR, thanks for watching. Be well and we'll see you next time.


I'm appropriate greetings and salutations everyone. Welcome to the Level Up Hour. I am your host Scott McBrian today. My co-host Randy Russell, International Man of Mystery, is out being internationally mysterious. And Jafar will hopefully be joining us next week. These are our Twitter handles where you can find us. And before I get into our topic today, which is Red Hat on Red Hat, it introduced our esteemed guests. I would first like to take a moment to talk about episode 47. You'll recall that it was quite embarrassing when my live demo, what could possibly go wrong, went completely pear-shaped. And thanks to a little bit of troubleshooting after the show, I've got some additional information to clarify what went on there. So the first thing is that when I was doing my containerized application, I said, you know what? I've done this as root, but I'm going to go ahead and do it as rootless, live, without any practice or validation. And that was my undoing. So what happened originally was we're getting this weird and error. And that was caused by my rootless container trying to attach to the system D of the system and get C group stuff and other things going. So one of the things I attempted to fix was by pulling a multi-service image from UBI. And that actually fixed the problem, although we didn't know it. The other solution was from our audience. Jonathan Tucker had suggested that instead of making a call to init as the initial process for the container, we should directly call Apache. And it turned out that also fixed the problem, but we didn't know it. Because the other thing that was happening was firewall DE. So without punching a hole through the firewall to allow port 80, not a whole lot of web application stuff is going to be going there. So what did we learn? One, test your demo is before you go live with them. Two, always check other components like firewalling to make sure that your traffic can pass through. All right. So our esteemed guests today for Red Hat on Red Hat are Mr. Brian Ackison and Mr. Ben Pritchett from Red Hat IT. And Brian, why don't I let you introduce yourself and then we'll pass it over to Ben. So what do you do here? So I am the infrastructure architect for Red Hat IT. So I cover pretty much all aspects of infrastructure in Red Hat, including compute, network, storage, really work across those groups to build a unified platform for our internal applications as well as customer-facing applications. Great. And Ben? Hey, I'm a platform architect within Red Hat IT. Focus on containers and platform as a service. And I work a lot with Brian on producing internal platforms for our developers to use to deploy to build their applications on and ultimately host a lot of the Red Hat applications that we use both internally and externally for our customers. And so you guys both colloquially work on a group or a project known as Red Hat on Red Hat. Can you tell us a little bit about what that is? Sure. So Red Hat on Red Hat is a program where we run Red Hat solutions internally to meet our own IT needs. And this really consists of virtually every Red Hat product, middleware, OpenShift, REL, Rev, OpenStack, really the entire suite of Red Hat products. We run internally to serve our customers. And obviously our IT shop is mostly REL. We have about 95 percent of our OS images or containers are REL-based. And so we just have an enormous platform for our users to actually utilize and develop on Red Hat products. And obviously OpenShift is very critical to that strategy. And I'll let Ben tell you a little bit about that. Yeah, absolutely. So as part of Red Hat on Red Hat, we talk a lot about our internal container and OpenShift usage. And this is really useful for other IT organizations across other companies to really just see and practice Red Hat products as we use them day to day. How we design them, how we implement them, how we maintain them, long-term operations, and ultimately cover the full life cycle of how we run Red Hat products internally. Yeah. And so I've been a Red Hat for a minute. And I think this all kind of started way back when we started the Red Hat corporate standard build laptops. Like that's kind of the genesis of what eventually became running Red Hat software everywhere, which was we decided internally that we were going to use Red Hat products wherever we could, including things like workstations. We had already been using it in IT for things like file servers and web servers and other things that Red Hat was already good at. So we continue that tradition today of using Red Hat products wherever possible. So I noticed that you guys said that RHEL and OpenShift are in that product mix. Where and how do you deploy those? For RHEL and OpenShift, what we offer with an IT is several platforms around OpenShift that internal Red Hat developers can come to and build their applications with a preference to RHEL, mainly for the security and trust that RHEL has around it when building and deploying applications. So yeah, we offer a few platforms that we try to make as self-service as possible, while also meeting our IT security and resiliency requirements. And we've been offering production OpenShift platforms. Let's see, I joined Red Hat IT back in 2015. So it was around the 2016 timeframe, which if you think about the OpenShift release cycle, that was right around the time OpenShift 3 released. So we've been running, actually our history with OpenShift goes way back as well. And when I joined IT, we were running production OpenShift 2 platforms as well. So yeah, it's kind of our history and how we offer OpenShift as an internal cloud platform for, again, our Red Hat developers to come and build and deploy mainly RHEL applications. But yeah, we also interface with other types of container images. And to answer the question of kind of where, I'd say everywhere. At this point, we obviously manage our own data centers, but we also increasingly use a lot of cloud-based resources. So virtually all the major cloud vendors we use and run RHEL there and more recently OpenShift across those environments. So really everywhere from, hey, a random file server in some office, someplace until the most cloud-native application you could think of. So RHEL gives us that very nice abstraction layer that we could build consistent applications on top of. And Ben, when you're talking about building RHEL for deployment, you're talking about container images, right? Correct. Yes. Okay. And do you guys build or roll back? Do you recommend that people build their own container images off of the RHEL sources or do you guys start with something like the universal base image? Like where's the entry point there? Kind of depends on the use case. It depends is the answer. But for a lot of our custom applications, absolutely. We recommend they use like the Red Hat Registry services to effectively get the great work that's already been being done and maintaining kind of those base RHEL images. We don't want to have all of our developer start from scratch where they don't need to. And there's a lot of security updates and vulnerability fixes that are maintained in the images that are hosted like at the Red Hat Registry services. So we recommend for developers start where you need to and if there's great work already being done and maintaining some of those base images, feel free to use that. With that, we also offer security tools that let us know that the runtimes and the build processes for the applications that our developers are building are in fact secure. And so that's how we can also kind of trust but verify how we're pulling in that great base content, whether it be UBI or other types of kind of base images. But we also have, you know, continual scanning we do to make sure that we're trying to best keep things secure as we ever increasingly move apps into the container world. Excellent. And just to set the audience like concepts of containers and what we offer from Red Hat's registries a little bit. So there are basically two piles of container images that Red Hat maintains. There's the RHEL ones which require RHEL subscription and have access to the full repository of software that is distributed with RHEL. And so if you look in the container repositories you may see like a, I don't know, MariahDB included image. That's a RHEL image. The UBI images and we talked about that a little bit in episode 47 last week. The UBI images are four starting points. There's micro, minimal, standard and multi-service. And those have a subset of packages from RHEL. So they're still based on RHEL packages but there's not the complete RHEL distribution available for them. The difference between them is that as I mentioned the RHEL ones you're required to have a Red Hat subscription. The UBI ones, you do not need a Red Hat subscription. And the UBI ones, all the packages in there are freely redistributable. So you can build your container application and then take that resulting container and distribute it wherever you want to whomever you want. And they also do not require any kind of Red Hat subscription with them. And then Ben mentioned that, you know, the security work and other stuff. So we rebuild all the UBI images every six weeks, period. Unless there is a critical or important security vulnerability in one of the pieces of software distributed with that image, in which case it can be rebuilt sooner than the six-week standard rebuild process. So that's what we're kind of angling towards there. Now Ben, do you guys actually do rebases every so often on those images? Like automatically as part of your build process? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. So what we strive for internally within Red Hat IT is we want to have automated life cycle management of our applications as we build, deploy, monitor, test, validate. Effectively, all that stuff we want a machine to do. We don't want a person to necessarily have to go in and kind of do all those activities. And build is an important part of that too. So as developers are continually building and deploying their application, and as developers are coding, this can be many times a day. Continually kind of rebuilding that image and re-releasing it to dev environments to ultimately move that further to the right and kind of into our production environments. Policies we have internally, we like app teams to rebuild weekly actually. This also just makes sure we have good grooming of the application. We can successfully and healthily redeploy it in that everything's working as intended. And so really just kind of that practice of the life cycle management is a good thing to be doing regularly. And again, we kind of like our app teams to be doing that weekly. We can also have app teams hook into event driven updates as well. So if they have, say they detect that an image has been updated, there's the potential to effectively hook that into your life cycle management. So you're automatically rebuilding based on detected, say vulnerability fixes that are coming down the pipeline or you know anything like that. So what does that process look like for a dev team? Do they just like have an automated rebuild every week and it magically goes to production? Or do they have inspection points, unit testing? Like what's that workflow? Ideally it's this hands off as possible, although you know in practice there's still some manual steps like UAT. Sometimes you have to jump in and kind of manually test some things. But for the most part, as you're coding and you're committing that code to say your mainline branch, you want automation to kind of pick that up, automatically build and redeploy your application. Do the necessary unit testing as well. Any kind of monitoring that you've attached to your dev environment, you want to make sure those are all green as you kind of redeploy your app. And so really we kind of initiate that from the code check-in, if you will. Cool. And I know that you guys offer basically like two methods of app, well more than two, but for our purposes today, the methods of app hosting are like virtual machine hosting versus container hosting. So what are your decision criteria or suggested things to look at for developers to decide whether they should go VMs or containers? I think that's something that's constantly evolving, certainly in our environment. Even up to let's say last year, we would just push the larger applications, 8 gigs of RAM and so on to virtual machines. Just because we don't want to overload the OpenShift environments and we didn't want to have to provision very large VMs underneath OpenShift. However, with recent OpenShift versions, that's obviously changing a lot and lets us support much larger containers. So right now, a lot of it is developer preference, although we certainly on the infrastructure side try to push as much as we can to OpenShift. But there are still some, frankly, still some older apps that still require VMs. Is that because they require more complex dependencies for the application layer? Like they're doing a ton of libraries plus database plus some other stuff? Yeah, first of all, for sure, the single node applications that say you have one large database server and everything needs to hit that database server. We don't necessarily want to put that in OpenShift and have a single point of failure within OpenShift for that database. With the VM level hosting, we're able to more easily migrate to a live migration of that VM across hypervisors as we down the hypervisor versus in the container world having to spin down that container and restart it on different nodes. So kind of those legacy applications that can't go down because they run some business critical resource and they just have a legacy architecture. Those still very much live in the VM realm. But obviously, as newer applications come along, we want those to be a dot more of a container native approach. And yesterday in our pre-search show meeting, we were talking a little bit about automation and I know that we're just talking about removing people from the equation for deployments and things like that. But there's a differential between automation and orchestration. So what's the difference there and how do you utilize it? So I usually think of orchestration as an orchestrating a release that I need to pull some nodes from a load balancer, basically write logic that can systematically roll out application without any real user facing impact. Whereas automation, let's just say I want to automate this process that goes and creates an LDAP user. So I kind of think of those very much in different realms. Obviously, there's tooling kind of spans that gamut, things like Ansible on the VM side is very handy at doing both. Although on the container side, we have much better tooling for that. I'll let Ben kind of speak to that. Yeah, absolutely. So I think we start to see automation realized in OpenShift, especially recently with operators. And this is something I'm really excited about as well. How can we start to automate external and internal dependencies to an application via how you can control for a piece of automation in an operator to say reach out to an external service and when you create an OpenShift route, create an analogous monitor, synthetic monitor along with it. And that's a great example of how we can automate particular activities from our cloud platform in OpenShift. How an application kind of takes that piece of automation and realizes it in their lifecycle management is kind of more aligned with the orchestration. So using our pipeline tooling, our continuous deployment tools as well to say hook into that piece of automation in this example, like an operator driven piece of automation and kind of build their whole application on top of that from start to finish. That's kind of where I would start to say that's more aligned with the orchestration piece of the puzzle. And the premise of this show when Langdon started a year ago was more like taking the people who do containers on RHEL natively or pods on RHEL and being like, hey, have you thought about moving to a platform that made better suture needs? And I think that that's kind of the automation orchestration is when you make that switch. So given enough time, you can write anything you want in shell scripts and Ansible, right? But I guess the question is, should you write stuff to monitor your deployment status and container running status in shell automation or use something like OpenShift where that's just built into the product? And that's a conversation that I think we're still having with container practicing folks. Do you guys have any kind of guidelines or thoughts on when that kind of switched should or could happen? When you advise people, hey, let's do it this way instead? So if the platform offers it, it certainly consumed that. Obviously in Red Hat IT, we've been building a lot of customer solutions for ourselves for a very long time. And we do have the scars to prove it. Trying to keep up with the various automation configuration management tooling out there over the eons at this point. Between Puppet, First Puppet, CF Engine, now Ansible, right? Those are very dramatic changes and take a long time to migrate from one kind of automation platform to another. Whereas if you could just consume what the platform offers in OpenShift, you're able to kind of quickly adopt what the great work other people have done for you and just leverage that. And then you also get an upgrade path for free when the next generation tooling comes out as part of that platform. I would add to that that it could be useful just to get something kind of quickly solved for like in your particular use case. And that's where the shell scripts kind of more of the tactical Ansible playbooks can be really helpful. Like I have a problem to solve and I can do it quickly using Ansible or scripting to kind of solve for that. But once you need that to be solved across many applications or across a platform, that's where we start to see the need for those type of tools to be realized, more in a like Kubernetes or OpenShift centric world. Yeah. So you guys have been at this for a while. So what is some advice that you would go back in time and give your younger self that would make your now self much happier? That's a good question that I'll have to think about. So to this day, I'm still cleaning up Perl scripts that I wrote in 2007. So I guess my lessons learned there would be although the solution worked, it's not the most maintainable and forward thinking automation on the planet. So if I had adopted kind of more modern languages back even back then, I think we would have been in a better place to migrate that automation to something like OpenShift now whereas now requires an extensive back port. And also to that end, obviously don't architect towards people organizations. Like every other company, we have a lot of org changes that happen from time to time. And tying a specific application to a property of that organization is just a really bad idea that quickly turns into a maintenance nightmare as organizations change and evolve and adopt new tooling. You're stuck with these kind of older team specific practices. And I definitely avoid those if you can. Yeah, I'd say one of the pieces of advice I'd give myself is there's a lot of great work we do within Red Hat IT and it could be useful kind of going back to the scripting versus building platform orchestration discussion we just had. Like if there's a team or something that could be solved using a very quick tool or process, let's do that. And as we need to scale, let's figure out how that scales and how we build that into a platform concept. Sometimes when you are kind of maintaining a platform with many, many applications that deploy on it, you start to see everything as kind of, oh, it needs to be solved in this particular way. And I think being open to other solutions is really important. I don't know how much that aligns with what Brian just said in terms of thinking long term about the scripts and the tooling automation that you're creating. But that's something I would say to my earlier self that let's solve things quickly and then let's figure out how to scale them over time and know when to hop in at particular points of, say, an automation life cycle. Yeah. Yeah, I would also add that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it. And we all get how smart you are, so you don't need to prove it in kind of the solutions you build, obviously simple as best. So Brian, I have to say I'm feeling a bit attacked because I found out 17 years later that a piece of pearl that I had written in a weekend was still production. And I found that out because somebody was like, hey, this needs to be updated, but you were the last one to work on it. Can you update it? I was like, what? Yeah, so it's not just you guys that have the not invented here and like, oh, I'll just fix this one thing real quick with this thing. And it turns into like a forever thing. Right. No solution is ever temporary. Right, right. And I think that there's, I mean, at Red Hat, there's a fair amount of not invented here. Like everybody wants to do their own thing and invent the thing. And I think that over the years, we've gotten a lot better at determining when to build versus when to buy or partner. Because it turns out that like, you don't want to maintain that piece of pearl for 17 years. Because that was four jobs ago. Now you're like a manager or director and somebody is asking you to write pearl. So, cool. So I've seen a lot of organizations around, like they don't always think about maintenance or longevity of their applications. And this is kind of tying into what we're just talking about, where it's like, I just want to get it done. I just want to do it. And I find that a lot for application development as well. It's like, I have to have this thing deployed by Thursday. And then after Thursday, I never have to think about it again. And in reality, that's not true. And in fact, I think you guys are the ones that probably see the dangers of that most acutely. So when thinking about longer term maintenance and management, because I know that you talk to application teams before they start their projects, what's some of the advice that you give them for looking to the future? I think the first thing that comes to mind is, generally, we're talking in the onboarding process.  And that might be really hard to think about because that could be, like we just said, there could be something running for 17 years. So how do you think about that date 17 years from now? But really, it's about the full lifecycle, like when this application has a particular monitor alert that goes off, who's going to handle it? Which piece of the stack do you want particular teams to be involved in when, say, there's a storage issue, network issue, application runtime issue? And then again, how is this application going to change when it ultimately gets decommissioned? Or how is it going to change over time? So kind of thinking past that onboarding process to the long-term maintenance and then ultimately every application gets turned off at some point, whether it be one year or 20 years, that's what I would say. Yeah, for sure. We obviously strive to convince teams to think about day one and day two support of their application and to decouple it however possible from the other layers that they need to access, so that typical microservice patterns. So that each individual service can evolve separately and really maintain its own lifecycle without an app being tightly coupled to the middleware, being tightly coupled to the database, which just becomes a very rigid thing to have to, and brittle thing to have to migrate later on, because it will need to be migrated at some point or will kill it. But either one of those activities will require a substantial amount of work and kind of how much work depends on your initial architecture. Yeah, I remember working on a project and the vice president of this department was like really frustrated because he expected that after Thursday we would never have to work on this thing again and he's like, but wait, we have to keep doing work on it. You're going to want new things in it and we're going to have to revisit it over and over again. And that's probably also tied into Ben, what you were saying earlier about rebuilding and redeploying every week to get that consistent maintenance and feature updates and security things in your container image. I've seen people pitch containers as a way to not have to worry about their thing anymore. Like, oh, you've got this old row five thing, shove it in a container, problem solved. Have you guys seen anything like that? Absolutely. And what is, after you recoil and horror from that statement, what do you respond with? So I will say from a platform perspective, we always want applications to think about rearchitecture about driving cloud native practices as they deploy two container platforms and within a hybrid cloud. I will say there are programs, there's projects that sometimes mean we need to make choices about what we rearchitect at certain points in the life cycle. So there's some applications that we will say, okay, we'll kind of do more of a lift and shift model with this application at this point. We'll simply take the bits, put it in a container and put it on, say this particular OpenShift deployment. But we also need to track, again, the life cycle of how are we rethinking, say our network dependencies or how we're breaking this out of tomorrow of a microservice model over time, given that we do that initial onboarding, say that's more driven from like a lift and shift practice. So sometimes it's, you know, we got to pick and choose kind of where we changed an application at particular points in this life cycle. But it's important that we, like you said, consider just because it's deployed in a container on OpenShift doesn't mean we're done. There's always improvements breaking down into more of a microservice architecture that we can be thinking about. Right. And, you know, at the end of the day, most applications I use at least some third-party libraries and app teams need to be considering what happens when there's vulnerability in Apache struts, for example. You know, how do you handle that and what, who gets woken up at 3 a.m. to actually fix it? And so having that management level support for that and having teams own the complete application and the life cycle for it in something like OpenShift is just extremely beneficial because that makes it very clear that this team owns the app top to bottom and, you know, they're the ones who need to validate when one of their dependency changes and to verify that the application still works correctly, be it through automations and pipeline builds or manually. But having the application team both empowered and responsible to maintain their application for the entire life cycle is just a huge change that we've only seen recently. And really as it evolves to OpenShift to be able to say, hey, I know the infrastructure teams have always taken care of your VMs in the past, but now this is your app and you need to maintain it. So that's been a real mindset change for us. I do want to add we've talked a lot about app team responsibilities and that type of thing. But part of what we also offer from a platform perspective is the tooling that that should be helping with a lot of this life cycle management. So we don't expect that an app team coming on to our internal platforms figures everything out on their own. We're constantly working to build standardized tooling, life cycle management, even migration tooling, because one of the things we do, we've had to do a lot in Red Hat IT as we, you know, redesign our data centers as we move to different public clouds, we ask that we kind of shift those apps across to the latest and greatest based on, you know, it could be cost performance resiliency, whatever type of requirement that we're trying to meet with, say, a new public cloud or a new data center. And so part of what we offer from a platform is kind of that support and help and kind of managing those migrations. Alongside the great tooling that's already built into the product, you know, I know there's a lot of OpenShift based add-ons and tools that can be used for how do we move an application from one, say, OpenShift cluster to another, because that is something that we see a lot in practice within Red Hat IT. And I know that in the last two and a half years or so, at the REL side of things, I think we made some decisions at the product layer to react to some of the things that you guys are seeing in the operations field. So with REL 8, we started the projectable release cycle cadence, which means every six months we have a new die release, every three years we have a new major. So, you know, at this point, we should expect REL 9 coming out next year, because that's three years after REL 8 was released.  Or should you run it on REL 9? Because it's imminently coming out in the next year. And then the other piece of that is like we've now forecast the life cycle. It used to be you didn't really know when things were going to change and now we have a documented, here's what it ends. Here's when it goes into maintenance mode or maintenance phase. So that you guys can have those better conversations with people as they get on to the platform. Right. And I don't know if you've had those yet. Actually, that that's actually enabled us to to provide our customers with internal opt-teens, a very clear OS matrix guidelines of what internally we support when they should be thinking of getting off REL 7 for REL 8, you know, when they need to be adopting REL 9. And so we kind of take the official product life cycle that we publish and kind of what we expect coming down the pike and as well as combine our security standards with that. And the end result is we could give our customers a very predictable set of standards that they could say, okay, well, you know, REL 8 will officially be desupported by IT at this date. So I need to be on REL 9 by then. Obviously, with containers that makes that transition a lot easier as well. I don't have to rebuild the VM and so on. So that, yeah, definitely really appreciate that the work Red Hat's done to be more predictable in releases and how long these are maintained for. Now, one of the things I'd like to see happen is, you know, especially in those places where it's a set it and forget it type of deployment model, you at least now know when you have to not forget it anymore, right? Because like in seven or eight years, you need to think about where your next step is, which means you may have to get budget for bringing developers on to do your updates and migration to get to that next release. But anyway, that was a little bit of a side, sorry. So since you guys are the production infrastructure team, what are things you see the development teams doing that you wish they would do differently? I'll let Ben take that one. I may have some developers watching this. I need to think a little bit about how I answer that, maybe. I would say when we talk about a platform, you know, that's run in turn within Red Hat, IAT such as what we do with OpenShift, I would say, read the documentation, understand what we're offering kind of from a platform perspective and see how you can use the tooling that's already there, and then give the feedback where it may not meet your use cases. Because one of the things that we sometimes see when we offer a platform and for context, the platforms, the OpenShift platforms we run internally, our main production hybrid cloud platform supports, I think, 180 different applications on it. And these are all like, you know, critical business critical applications we're talking about. So an outage really affects the ability for the Red Hat business to run. But going back, you know, sometimes we have app teams that, you know, they get drawn to building kind of their own solution or, you know, using a tooling that we kind of haven't figured out how it quite integrates, say, with our OpenShift platform. And so we can certainly take those features on and those requests on and say, okay, let's think about how we support this for 180 different applications. But my request would be sometimes we need to think more critically about when we introduce a new tool. One, it can't just be for one team, we got to think about how we provide it from a platform. And two, once you introduce a new tool that, say, has lifecycle management of your app, that now kind of becomes critical to the runtime of your app. And so you also need to think about, say, for like a pipeline technology. How do you monitor that the pipeline is running successfully?  As we introduce new tools, we need to think about how we support them. And so that's why from a platform perspective, when we have kind of standardized integrated tooling that we know we can support, my request would be try those out first and where they don't work. Let's talk about the updates to the RFEs that need to be associated with those. So would that fall into the vein of like partner earlier? Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, there's always going to be the 20% use case in a 20% of the app teams who can't take advantage of whatever tooling we're providing because of X and being able to communicate that clearly and what success looks like to us is enormously helpful. And at the end of the day, most apps don't fall into that 20% category, although they do, they think they do. And usually we have solutions to meet whatever need they have. So it's important for app teams to be willing to collaborate with the platform owners and infrastructure teams on what their application really needs versus what maybe somebody knows. We do see developers coming in and saying, I've always done it this way, so I want to keep doing it this way. And it's like, well, actually, we have better tooling for that now. So how about you look over here? And that usually goes pretty well. So yeah. So one of the things that we see a lot, especially from like operation side, like really adapt it standing up OpenShift or standing up REL container hosts or whatever the case may be. But then we lack onboarding to help the dev teams get onto those platforms. And so what we end up with is like an infrastructure that's running without anything running in it. I know that you guys do a tremendous amount of coaching and helping onboard people and teams to your platforms. What are some things that you would suggest other folks do to help with that onboarding? Yeah, this is something I think our team spends a lot of probably underestimated time on is how do you successfully drive applications to adopting container platforms? So some of the things we've done internally is we try to make it clear when you're a good fit for say our internal OpenShift platforms versus where you may want to go to say a virtualized workload. Kind of how we were talking about making that decision-making process earlier. Having this kind of upfront in the conversation means we can avoid an application team ending up on one platform where they may actually be a better fit for another type of platform. Another thing we do, we've done this for years around our internal OpenShift offerings within Red Hat IT is we try to develop a community around the platform offering. So one of the things, we develop internal knowledge base, internal chat rooms where we want the great solutions that developers are doing around our platform offering to be shared amongst the other tenants of the platform. And this also helps because our platform teams are limited. We don't hire a multitude of engineers and operations support to maintain this. So this means that we sometimes get developers helping to solve other developers' problems all in the context of the community we've developed around our internal offering. So empowering your developers to be excited, be interested, and to help other developers solve problems and to give them a space in which to share their solutions I think is really important when it comes to adoption of hypercloud or container platforms or any kind of new model you're moving application teams to. Yeah, and I think also providing teams with clear patterns of, hey, your application looks like this. Okay, here are the set of tools and patterns and even templates and yaml files that they could quickly adopt for how their application is architected. It goes a long way towards helping them get on the platform. There's very little they have to do other than just pick the pattern that most closely resembles their application, tweak a few variables, and they're good to go. So being able to provide that kind of a standard-based approach really goes a long way at least towards the 80% use case. So we're approaching the top of the hour. I told you I was going to throw you a curve ball. So, Brian, what was your first Red Hat distro? So that was a Red Hat Linux 4.1 or .2, not Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Red Hat Linux 4.2, I think it was, in 1997-ish in the dorm room in college. And so I was hooked on Red Hat products since then. Excellent, excellent. What about you, Ben? I think it was Enterprise Linux 3, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3. It would have been in same circumstance college 2004, which I think was either REL 3 or REL 4 at that point. I'm going to go with REL 3. Because I think. Was it REL 3? That looks very familiar from 17, 16 years ago, 17. I would have been really impressed if you had the Red Hat Linux disk around, but I'll let you off the phone. I actually have a whole collection. I have a whole collection. You predate my collection, which starts at Red Hat Linux 6.0. Interesting. I don't have media kits for that. I used 5.2 as my first, but it was the heady mid-90s and I was like, boxes, who needs boxes? There you go. All right. It looks like we do have a question in the chat. If in simple terms, I would say Kubernetes is simpler than OpenShift, but to convince a customer to migrate to OpenShift, what points could be put up in order to convince them that OpenShift is preferable to building their own Kubernetes? I would say, and this is from experience, although Kubernetes has come a long way since I think we ran production vanilla Kubernetes within Red Hat IT. This goes back to like 2015, but a lot of the challenges we are trying to solve with a vanilla Kubernetes distribution is authentication authorization. Our back was a big part of it. Ingress, so how do you get client connections coming into your applications? This is also around the same time OpenShift 3 was being released where we started to see a lot of these things solved inherently in the product. From an operations perspective around a container platform, we were having to solve for particular things in Kubernetes, specifically around our back in Ingress, that we could spin up OpenShift and we had APIs in which to work and manage this stuff more natively to container named spaces. As I've said, Kubernetes has come a long way since, but I think what OpenShift offers is still aligned with what we saw six years ago, is thinking more about the day two operations and how can we solve those natively in the product so that there's less time spent from our platform engineers and kind of solving these things directly in Kubernetes. I would also add that we run OpenShift everywhere and increasingly more that's running OpenShift in public cloud providers, but also running it in three node bare metal servers in the closet in some office someplace. Being able to kind of leverage a consistent platform really everywhere and give developers both build tools, pipeline deployment tools as well as obviously the container runtime is critical for that seamless experience and loading customers run their workloads really anywhere it makes sense. OpenShift has become our abstraction layer and we don't want app teams running on the underlying infrastructure itself. We want it to run on OpenShift. Obviously, Kubernetes has been mentioned has come a long way as well and it depends on what Kubernetes solution you look at. It supports different kind of footprints, but OpenShift you really have that seamless platform that this structure is really anywhere you need to deploy it. A long long ago, someone once told me that OpenSource is free if your time is worthless. And so products like Red Hat Enterprise Linux, OpenShift, Red Hat Virtualization, they're all based on OpenSource projects, but Red Hat puts a ton of effort and development not only into the actual OpenSource community for that project, but also into the packaging, maintenance, longevity, management of that thing. And so OpenShift is not just Kubernetes, it's source to image, all the management infrastructure that goes along with it, all the monitoring stuff that goes along with it. There's like a ton in there besides just Kubernetes. And I think this ties into some of the stuff that we're talking earlier, right, where you could use to build it all yourself, but then who's going to fix it when it goes belly up? And are you then tied to that thing for the rest of your life because you're the only one that knows it, you're the only one with the skills on it? Yeah, I would say that we are a big customer of Red Hat support and leverage them very heavily and they've helped us through some extremely interesting and sticky issues in the past across a variety of products. So having that access to support has just been invaluable. Absolutely. And one thing I do hear customers say is like, why didn't you even open a support case? So what is this for? And I would say that even if you're not opening support cases, that tells me that we're doing a good job, right? Because that means that all of the engineering work that we're putting into the product, all the QE work that we're putting in before release, like that's all paying dividends, which is why you're not opening support cases. But if you do need support cases, we of course have that too. All right, so guys, any last words of wisdom? I'm just thinking about how I got introduced to containers and maybe a piece to leave on. I was curious and I played around with tools back in the day and I got really interested in containers. So be curious, like play around with stuff, like figure it out, break it apart, put it back together. Interestingly enough, that's kind of how I ended up in my role today. And so sometimes kind of taking on those passion projects and getting really motivated and interested in a particular tool or technology can ultimately end up in the kind of job or role that you want to be in. Yeah, very much. And you really don't learn a tool until you break it and learn how to fix it. So try breaking as much of stuff, as many things as you possibly can, right? Not in production. Not with your BGP advertisements, but try. Try breaking things and seeing how far you can push products in solutions. All right, so now is the point of the show where we do sweet, sweet internet points. So, Brian and Ben, you're new, so you've not seen this before. And just to recap, this is episode 48. We had Brian Knackison and Ben on for talking about Red Hat on Red Hat, running Red Hat Tools at Red Hat. All right, so sweet, sweet internet points. And I'm sure Stephanie, our show producer, will shortly paste this into the chat. So it looks like Norenda has woken back up from his slumber and is continuing to accumulate sweet, sweet internet points to extend his lead on the other folks out there. Bacon Fork Store, respectable midfielder at 2900 points. And we'll see. Can anyone catch Norenda? That's the real question. Don't forget to like and subscribe if you enjoy the Love Love Hour programming. And we look forward to bringing you more soon. Guys, thanks a lot for joining us today. Thank you for helping us. Yeah, thank you.


Brought to you by DIS, keeping companies connected with cloud-based solutions. Come on, City! Can we start with some team news please, Connor? Have you got any fresh injury concerns for Saturday's game? Not off the back of the last game, no. We've got through it and everybody's fine. What about Gareth Evans? How's he getting on? Do you have an update on him? Yeah, we're hopeful that he could have been involved in some capacity in the last game but I've got overruled if you like and hopefully he's going to be available for the next game. How much of that is a blow when you think a player could be involved and then they can't? Yeah, because he was returning from a slight injury, it wasn't going to be where he was. He's potentially going to be in the starting 11, so it's not a bigger blow because you can quickly fix things on the bench. Obviously we've got a really good squad as well, so that does help. What about Billy Clark speaking of the bench? He's come off the bench the last couple of games after missing the previous four, didn't he? How close is he to a start? How's he feeling? I know we'll speak to him later as well. He'll probably tell you that he's fine and he's ready to go, but again we've just got that care and to look after him and make sure that he's getting through these games and periods of play before starting in that team. But again, the starting 11 and performing and he's got to wait patiently for that chance again, but he's working hard definitely. And forgive me if Adam asked you on Monday, but do you have any updates on Harry Pritchard, Bryce and Linovac? Harry has been to see a specialist and sort of had some good news and bad news. The good news is that they're going to be able to sort his injury out, but the bad news is that it's going to be a period of time that he's going to be out. He's going to undergo surgery this month, which will probably put him out for the rest of the season. Bryce is on the pitch with the physios and trying to have a speedy recovery from the last time we spoke. But again, it's not as simple and he's got to get through certain things to be given the all clear. And Lee again, he's weeks away, so we're just assessing and monitoring the latter two. Just going back to Harry there, obviously really disappointing for him as a player and you guys as managers. How do you manage a situation with a player like that and keep their head up almost, which what will be a challenging situation for him? Yeah, I think the communication is key from the staff at the club and making sure that he feels that we're there to look after him and to support him in the good times and the bad times. And we've got to just make sure that we're in contact and see how he is. Andy Cook, he'll be back available after being ineligible on Tuesday. Is it a case of him coming straight back into the 11 or what are your thought processes behind that? Decision has not been made yet. Obviously we will look to Friday, Saturday to make that call, but they're both not doing the self any harm, scoring goals and doing what they should. So it's going to be a tough decision, but I heard Rowey's interview about the competition being healthy and they want each other to do well. So I'm sure that whoever we pick is going to be backed by the other one. And just sticking on the new arrivals, it's fair to say they have had a good impact, quite a lot of them as well. How much has that helped you guys as managers, these players have come in and really hit the ground running? Yeah, it's not always a straight forward where players come in and they settle in and they can perform. And sometimes they take time to gel and to knit with the other ones. But the ones that have come in have performed well and some of them are starting week in week out. So we're delighted that they've come in and managed to bed in quickly. After the game on Tuesday, Mark said it was similar after the Warsaw game as well.  He did say there were some things that you had to improve on. What are they after you've had time to analyse that? Yeah, we knew it was going to be that kind of game because the team that Mansfield are because they're full of energy and they put pressure on the ball all over the pitch.  So we anticipated that. And from our standpoint, from a style of play point of view, we would have liked to maybe had more control of possession just to try and move them better and provoke them a little bit more and get them pressing. But getting it wrong if you like, so we're breaking the press and we're attacking more space. But it wasn't to be. And again, we're on a journey that we're trying to improve the team and improve the players. But it's not a straight forward. And as long as we're seeing these things and we know how to work on them, hopefully we can improve. Despite that, though, it must be really satisfying to get the win despite maybe not being up to the full standard you would help. You've still walked away with the three points. Yeah.  You know, I wouldn't say we played poorly, but the game was so messy and random. And, you know, it was a bit of chaos where it was, you know, we were resolute defensively and we protected the right spaces. We defended as units, you know, our distances off each other were fantastic. So we were pleased with the victory. Five wins in a row. Jamie mentioned to mark after the game on Tuesday, first time in nearly 16 years. Do you pay attention to things like that, Connor, or is it just taking things one step at a time? I have heard it. I wasn't aware before before the game. It was just a case of, you know, that we needed to go out and win a game, you know, irrelevant of a record. We just want to take as many points as we can from now until the end of the season and try and build loads of momentum. So that's what we're trying to do. And looking ahead to Saturday, you and Mark still unbeaten at Valley Parade. How important is it, albeit with no supporters still, that Valley Parade is a fortress and a really tough place for teams to come?  And when they arrive to the ground, they know it's going to be a tough test. And, you know, at the minute we're on a good record. And hopefully we can keep that up. It's going to be a massive test. They're in obviously fantastic form and they're doing really well in the league and they've got a lot of strengths. And, you know, hopefully we're going to be ready for the fight and ready for the challenges that they give to us. Three points off the playoffs. I was looking at the form table just before we came on. It's only Bolton who are above you in the form table. These are the games you really want to be involved in, aren't they, as a player and a manager? I think every game is really tough and you've got to treat them all the same. You know, I've said it earlier in the week where it doesn't matter if you're playing first, there's plenty of top form team, bottom form team. Every team has really good strengths and it's going to be a massive test that I've mentioned so far. Even though we're both at the top of the form table, it means nothing. We've got to go out there and perform. And just lastly from me, we've talked a lot about form. We talk about it a lot on our show here. We make a big deal of it. I know that probably you and Mark and the players don't really want to. How do you keep your feet grounded and the players' feet on the ground? I think just clear messages of nobody's ever cracked football.  He has a lot of tests and we've got to keep everybody grounded and knowing that the next game is the most important. And so far, we've been trying to do that and hopefully it can continue. But again, we're ready for the challenges at football face as well. Perfect. Thanks Conor. Good to meet you and good luck for Saturday. Thanks a lot for that. Cheers. Hi Conor. One of the things that's been noticeable, particularly in the last two home games, is the number of free kicks you've given away around the box. Although you defended them very well, that must be somewhat of a worry to you. Definitely an area to improve. It's not nice to keep defending balls into the box in cheap ways by giving fouls. And I think we've got to be better at showing the play into different areas and forcing back and being a little bit more patient when they do get into our own half. And maybe in a high pressure can be that aggressive because the ball is not going to generally come into your half on the free kick. But when you're defending your own half and around your box, you've got to be careful, especially when you've got players in teams that can make something out of nothing from a free kick situation. And how much have you managed to get to see a bolt in the last few weeks ahead of the game on Saturday? Yeah, we've seen snippets of them. We've seen other teams, et cetera, that have been starting. But again, they're in unbelievable form. They're confident and they've found the way of playing and the playing well. And we've got to try and prepare like we would for any other game. I suppose in a way, it's like going back to when you and Mark first came in, you probably will be on the dogs going into it, which you haven't been in recent games. Yeah, well, yeah, I think we're underdogs and that's fine with us. We're happy to be that. And we're trying to always create that mindset where we have to go and earn everything. And even in the games, the last two games, we can happily say that our attitude and commitment has been first class. And we've got the wins. OK, thanks very much. Good luck on Saturday. Thank you very much. Cheers. Hi, Connor. Hi there. You were saying everything about Bolton and the run they're on. And they play a different sort of way, don't they? To a lot of this division, you know, it's a lot of, you know, possession-based football. And it's a very sort of different challenge for you. Yeah, it's going to be certainly a different, different challenge to most teams. However, they have got that style of play of possession, but they're happy to mix it up as well and go a little bit more direct, especially in more recent weeks. So we're, you know, we're going to do our homework to make sure that we would try and know as much about them as we can. As you say, and also part of their run, is that they haven't conceded a goal either in the last four games. So again, that's, you know, that must, I mean, I think you've only conceded two in five, but obviously that solid base that they've got as well, it's going to take some breaking, isn't it? Yeah, and, you know, as a team, when you're, you know, having clean sheets and protecting the goal well and defending well, you know, it shows that, you know, the mentality of the squad and the team effort and the team ethic is brilliant because it's not just a backfiring the keeper. It's everybody working for the same cause and to see them have such a good defensive record means that we're going to have to be good on our day.  Are you sort of noticing a different attitude within the players? I mean, you're saying about keeping the players grounded. Is that easy to do when you've got a game as big as this one coming up? I think what the players and the staff are doing well is that we're not really focusing too much on who they are as in treating anybody differently. We're all, we prepare the same way for every single team. Again, you know, having a massive game like this, Bradford, again, Bradford City against Bolton, probably the biggest one in the league in terms of history and things like that. And we find ourselves in form, like you've said. So for Rosy, we've just got to work hard and hopefully get the three points. And obviously, you know, I think a lot of people, there was a lot of expectation on Bolton before a ball had been kicked. They've taken a while to get going, but presumably you're not surprised to see them hit their stride like they have now. No, no. And when you see their team, there's a lot of good players in there, a lot of threats. So, you know, we're not surprised that they're in form and they've found their way. And two teams have probably benefitted and had a very good window. Potentially, yeah, yeah, potentially. You're sorry. Yeah, can you hear me? Yeah, sorry, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so, yeah. You know, did a lot of business and you're in and probably very pleased with it in terms of what they've, you know, the progress since. Yeah, obviously can't speak too much, too much for them. But, you know, they've picked up and they've found good form. And, you know, if they think that the window's been kind to them and they've done the business well, fair play to them. For Rosa, again, we looked to strengthen the squad and we've done that and now we are happy with what we've got and we're looking to get even better. And by DIS, keeping companies connected with cloud-based solutions. Come on, City!


Oh my god. Oh, dude. He just like killed her and flew out of the city. What is going on guys? What is this the game here? And today we are here in the elevator of doom. Oh my god, this elevator is so awesome. Dude, he's stuck over there. And if you can see, we got golden Freddy right there.  Alright, and before we start with this more of this gameplay guys, make sure to slap the like button. And if you're new to the channel, make sure to subscribe and turn that notification bell on.  We got the whole yeet squad here. Let's see who we got here. Let's get some shout outs. We got yeet squad, RG boys on the roof. Oh, that's me, bro. Realistic fan number one, Blazer X. Uh, Fates. Fates kid Samuel. I can't pronounce that, bro. Big move. First Gaming. Toby Buys. Puppy Lover. Lacy Grill. Cinco San Fox. The real RG fans. Shadow Dude. Ninja and Gabe Master.  Okay, um, what?  What is wrong with Mario? What? Dude, that guy looks insane. Alright, hold on. Let's get out of here. Let's go check this out. Oh no! Dude, he's right on us. We're going to have to break this dude's ankles, man. Get away. He's made up. Dude, he has a knife on his torso. How is he running? Like, how is he not dead, bro? Run Blazer, run. Dude, he's getting chased by that clay Mario. I don't know what's wrong with that dude, he definitely needs some milk. He needs some milk! But it's like I'm in the door, but I'm not at the same time. Huh? That doesn't make any sense. It kind of reminds me of Han Solo when they put him in that thing. If you guys know what I'm talking about. Oh man. Oh! Oh no! What? Dude, he sounds so evil. What is he saying? I don't know when he was saying something, but I can't understand the guy. Dude, someone lost their arm. Oh man, your nightmare begins. Huh? Wait for this pirate ghost guy. Let's push him out of here. Hold on. Let me push this guy off the elevator. He does not belong here. Excuse me, I'm trying to push the pirate out of the elevator. No! The floor is going to spawn. Yes! We pushed him off and we fell. Crazy Jerry? Dude, I think it's something about Jerry. What is Jerry? Oh, he came back. Why did he come back? Oh my God, Jerry! No! Dude, why is there a shotgun on the ground? There's an AK on the ground. What is Jerry up to? This is one man missing Jerry. Oh, look at Tom. Kind of doesn't look like Tom. It looks more like Gumball. In a weird way. Oh man. Oh! Oh, I remember that mouse. It's that thug mouse. That's so funny. Dude, look at this giant block of cheese right here. Dude, he's inside of the cheese. Hey! Oh, okay. Let's get out of here. Can I grab this? He's stuck on the block of cheese. Oh man. No, no. All right. At least that model isn't like funky looking. He kind of does look like a mouse. That's Jerry himself. Oh man. There they go. Oh yeah. Well, it's also pretty cool that they added me as a killer in this game. But I don't know if we'll ever get the floor because there is like over 50 floors in this game. Xenomorph? Dude, what is that? That thing looks ugly, bro. Oh my goodness. They just knocked him over. Dude, he is getting everybody out here. Oh my God. He is pretty quick though. I'm not going to lie. Kind of looks like a roach. I don't know, man. He looks super weird. Oh my God. He's just going to keep them in circles. Go, bro. You got it, man. You just keep doing your thing while I pilot this, whatever it is. It seems like some sort of space station or something. No. No, please don't get me. Take them instead of me. It looks like Alien 2. Oh my God. He's coming. Okay, let's stay in the elevator. This thing behind this pirate, man. We might actually save our lives. Dude, I threw him out of the elevator and he spawned back in here. Let's try it once again. Get out of here for a second time. He just appeared. Oh, man. You just can't get rid of this guy, can you? Nope. All right. Oh, lucky the rabbit. Oh, there he goes. Oh my God. Where is that from? Kind of looks like it's a nap character. Like an animatronic or something. Wait, this is a school? Okay, the door is locked. Wait, is this another school killer like Baldi? Wouldn't Baldi and Lucky Rabbit fight each other, man? Hey, that is pretty smart. He's hiding on top of the number two pencil. All right, let's take a seat here. Oh, what? Dude, he just fell over. Oh my God. Hey, what's up, Mr. Guy? All right. Oh, man. Dude, how did he manage to get us? Look, let me show you guys, I'm right here on the color board. I am right here. Look at me. There I am. That used to be my old avatar. I look beautiful, huh? I know, I know.  Yo, we got an EXE meltdown floor. It's like all the EXE characters. Dude, what is going on? Oh my God, gun ball. I saw Sonic EXE, there's a Mario EXE and there's a gun ball EXE. Dude, Sonic is like floating, bro. Who's this EXE madness? I'm telling you. Dude, look at this gun ball on the map right there. This is dope. Dude, chill out. Oh my God. Lazy Sonic was above you. Yeah, apparently only one of us survived that floor because it was fairly impossible to try to survive that as we've seen there. There was just too much EXE that was going on, man. That was pretty dope. Not going to lie though. All right, let's push this guy up. Get out of here. Be gone, pirate. Please don't come back. Oh, what? Lazy appeared like the pirate does. Tamaris? Oh, let's check this out. Oh my God. Oh my God. Yo, it's so dark. It's like a maze out here. Tamaris. Where's he at? Oh my God, there he is. Dude, this bro got a chill out.  Okay, I don't want to get any closer. Oh. Yo, we just got jump scared. Let's get out of the elevator, man. Oh my God. What's up with this floor though?  I want to feel alive. Oh my God. Jump scared. I think he's pretty terrifying. Even though you can't tell what it is. Jump scared overload. One more time, hurry before it's going in. Jump scared me, bro. All like the creators right here. Cyber Fox. Wow. Nintendo spawned me. Cyber. Cyber spawned me. I'm attentive to spawn my floor, bro. I want to see my floor. Nintendo will be removed because I need to rework them. Okay, all right. He said he's down to spawn me. All right, let's check it out. Let's see if he's really with it, man. Redcaped that. Boy, that is not me. He spawned me. It is bugging. All right, let's check out this red cape. Dude, I just got teleported down. All right. I'm just not redcaped. This is atokantus. Atokantus, something like that. He kills you when you're on the toilet. Pretty evil. I was spawned realistic gaming killer. Hey, all right, boy. Okay, awesome. I'm using the bathroom. Yeah, he hand you the red or blue pill. And I think the red is bad. I don't know. Something like that. Hey. Oh my God. Oh, bro. Flushed the toilet.  Come on. Oh my God. Sounds good. All right. Let's get ready, guys. He said he's going to spawn my killer. Oh, you can actually open the doors. Oh, sorry. Didn't know you were... Dude, this guy is... Oh my God. This guy is in every stall. I cannot... Bro, you better not get out of here, man. Bro, you're just playing this over there. Hi. I don't know. You'll see for yourself. All right. He said he's going to spawn me. Let's check this out. Let's check this out. Let's check this out. Let's just say yes to Confuser. Come on. Teleport me back up. There you go. Thank you. All right. Get ready to witness. Why do I keep getting teleported back? Springtime? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Dude, this is not my floor. Here is it? Oh, it is! Oh, my God, yo. Oh, how did I die? Dude, it seems like I'm pretty OP as a killer, man. All right, let's try to get back in the elevator before the floor, before the round ends. No. Dude, you're watch so slow here. It's pretty torturing, man. Let's go back. We got a coil. Oh, my God, the coil better even does anything. Oh, my God. My god, yo, yo what happened to my milk backpack? How do I die? My god, he's pretty OP. How can I do this to you? I'm sorry man. That is evil side of me It just had to come out guys All right, so I see like the my killer is pretty OP you can't even get near him He kills you if you didn't like stand around him. Oh Man will we catch the floor again? Sorry? Sorry? I just wanted to my killer one more time. Oh my god for tweeter Poor tweeter man. Look at him. He's so innocent here, but I'll be there. He's evil tweeter. It's tweeter exe, bro Pretty demonic. All right you guys while this was the elevator of doom If you guys enjoyed the video make sure to slap the like button If you're new to the channel make sure to subscribe and turn that notification bell on and I will see you guys In the next one. Yeet


And then the tiger financial news network headline news update Everyone Basel Chapman on this Monday the 21st of March. This is a tiger financial news network market update And what we're looking at is the Dow pullback initially then ran up and made a new recovery high higher than on Friday Which is sitting 4,808 that has been? party the The next target that we were looking at the 34,371 is the 200 period exponential moving average support But in the bigger context this week is a chance that we can get to the 34,900 Maybe the 34,000 35,000 we'll see but meantime everything technically in the daily chart is all All conducive to buy mode and that means it should go to at least a higher peak peak D It's at leg see right now s&p. The s&p of this particular point is trading at 44 58 This is down 5 it made a new recovery high from Friday's high Fabulous action will see leg see that these good stochastic good in both cases the weekly charts are going to be key What happens this week on a closing basis at Friday at 4 o'clock? We want to see what happens and that is again to be impacting the monthly chart because we have got We were within two weeks of the month wrapping up that makes us candle in the monthly chart so important QQQ one two three QQQ down to three quarter points at 348 79 also made a new recovery high But it's lagging in many ways that sector is still under pressure That is the index 100 type stocks the IWM has held well It's pulling back right now at 206. It's how can it break out if it breaks out to the 212 or higher area this week that is really a good sign for the small caps haven't done so yet gold Gold is trading up five at 1934 in this consolidation phase. You're looking at crude or I don't think I did crude or During the show I did Tommy showed he wasn't able to make it that was the market kickoff He does a great job. I was I didn't do the fundamentals So up six points in crude oil at a hundred ninety four This is a crude oil is still a really big issue And if you look at the TLT that is a big issue it is up from the low, but it's still down to this is bonds I'll be back to the tiger fish cell off this 10 a.m. Market Update up back. Hope you can stay


Number two Andrew a Japanese beauty YouTube vlogger is under fire for getting her nine-year-old daughter Elective double eyelid surgery, but Andrew people are also mad at a rationale because she said for me I never found a single woman beautiful that had the mono lids So I want my daughter to be as pretty as possible. So I got her the surgery But I guess is it right or wrong? I mean a lot of people are debating right because they think that oh kids at this age They can't make decisions, but I guess for example another thing that I would ask is like what about circumcision babies? Never make that decision to get cut down there y'all parents You're talking about snippets up here versus snippets down there as a man I never had that decision on whether I wanted it. Yes or no