Thanks everyone Happy solstice. Let's start the meeting at 632 First order business is public comment Any public comment? It's like not in the room Any public comment on the phone? Okay, great Consent agenda Do you have a motion to approve the consent agenda? I Move to approve the consent agenda with the exception of the authorization to enter into contract with engineering ventures I just have a couple questions. You guys know pull that. Yep. All right. Do I have a second? second All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Great. I'm going to talk about the contract with the engineering ventures. Yes, Andrew LaRose. I just have a couple questions for you It's right. It's at the beginning of the meeting this time. That's right I'm curious. Who else you considered for the job. We were we were originally They came to us on they've worked with us on several projects. They worked with us with the Elementary school project as well as they're starting to work with us on the middle school project and when we originally started Thinking about doing that 4,000 40,000 square 40,000 foot study. We partnered with Gossin's Bachman and engineering ventures So they had sort of a running start at this so they've had experience building tracks They built the one up at UVM and so it just seemed to be a natural so it being a professional service We were comfortable with them thought it was in their in their fees seemed very much in line with why I was expected So we want with them. Okay, it suggested going with them. It's the only it's the only one you considered. Yeah, is what you're saying, okay? Well, you answer may have a question why not consider anyone else, but you say we've got a long relationship with them And and they've got the experience. So do you know of others out there that could do the job? Certainly, yeah Okay Do you have a mission to approve the authorization to enter into contract with engineering ventures? Or further questions on that for Andrew? Actually, I have a question. It's Lynn. Yeah Is it normal to I mean, are we under any obligation to put the bid out? Not for professional services. It's like a retaining an architect or a lawyer If you can if you find one that you're comfortable with and Libby if I'm misstating this But as professional services, you don't need to go out to bid if it was for construction services that we absolutely will go out to bid on Into a contract with engineering ventures No second Thanks Was a favor. Hi. Hi. Any opposed great. Thanks Now on Judy Hey, great. Thanks. Thanks for coming. Did you get it Libby or do you need me? Yeah? Yeah, thank you for having me and I'm hopeful that you all received a postcard in the mail My household got five. So hopefully you didn't get that many. I'm not sure why that happened but we're trying to get some information out and it's really important for all of the the voters across the 18 towns that We serve as a career center to get the information about our budget and to know where to find stuff and navigate to So hopefully you got that Soon you'll see the presentation that has current students in it from this year a few photos Not quite as many as the governance one Just because we have so many pieces of information that we couldn't stand against that the photos and still see the photos so Unfortunate but hopefully you can access you can access our website at any time You can see some of the newsletters. We're sending out and see all the great stuff that's going on today For example, it was today was our Friday. So I'm in my Friday gear And we had the culinary class had a burger challenge and rich McChefrey from Cornerstone came in and helped judge that And the winning burger is going to be featured next week on the Wednesday night burger night So if you don't have another board meeting that night, that would be a great time to go get your five dollar burger Or maybe check out that culinary students. Yes. Yep. Yeah And Wednesday is always five dollar burger night. They don't pay me, but maybe they will if I keep advertising So the presentation that I have for today is around budget and Jill's gonna chime in if there's anything I miss It's wonderful having Jill as a member of our board And you may or may not know that Jill is our chair So she's been doing a wonderful job with that and I really appreciate working with her So I know you are all lucky to work with her as well We're gonna probably breeze through the first slides when we do get the opportunity to slide it show you the presentation and the very first one The board asked me to have the mission statement and vision for the career center there and we realized we don't really have one there was some work done on it in 2018-2019 and then it sort of fell apart and Tons of different things have obviously happened in that time And so what we do have that we usually have in our annual report is a little bit about what we do and The purpose of the career center is providing students with the skills they need to be college and career ready So that's one of the things our board is going to be working on as we move forward in this year No worries So there were lots of things that we think about in our budget as you know, we have 12 programs and so they range from the culinary that I was talking about to automotive To building trades to emergency services this year. We have two new programs We have design and fabrication which is actually taking place at the Vermont Granite Museum And those students are learning sculpture and they're going to be cutting stone in the very near future And they're also working with Vermont Technical College and learning a little bit about CNC and computer aided drafting and some design there So it's a really exciting new program. It's meant to be a two-year program We only got two students in it this year Which was great for our first-year teacher to work to build the curriculum with two students And we're going to reboot it next year So we're going to do a second first year to try to get more students in and to take those two students that are in it and Work towards putting them in an apprenticeship for next year. So that's really exciting the other program We have also has two students. It's advanced emergency services and those students are taking the paramedic courses with VTC So they're doing 12 credit semesters Both of them passed their first semester. We're very excited about that And they'll be doing the next semester with VTC as well So they come in three days a week at our center and work with our instructor And then they go to VTC and Williston on Thursdays and work through with the entire class the VTC class And my instructor goes up there after program because he's teaching both the emergency services level one and level two and Then they have Friday off if they want it or a lot of times they're coming in and doing their work Because it's a lot heavier than what they had the previous year having all those college credits So when they're done with our course, they will just be starting their summer Which is the last component for the VTC program and they'll be able to test out with a paramedic license at the end of the summer So it's really exciting to have those two programs Correct. Wow. Yeah. Yeah in our medical professions this year. We were able to add phlebotomy So our students are coming out with a CCMA license and a phlebotomist license at the end of that that certification so if any of you want to Help us out. They need to do live draws So if anyone wants to come in and have a student practice the live draw on you We are starting those next month and I can I can share with Libby the sign-up sheet We can get some of you in that would be great So there's just lots of exciting things happening And so those things that we're adding on and trying to build our programs make them more rigorous Kids a little closer to an associate's degree before they leave us Or that industry certification that they get for instance our plumbing program this year We lost our instructor early in the year resigned and we were I taught it Not very well for about three weeks until we were able to find Company that worked with us so Vermont heating and ventilation has partnered with us And they've sent the master Palmer to work with us two days a week He's in with the students and then he collaborates with our permanent sub who now is an has an emergency license And they are collaborating to teach that and starting January 23rd He'll be in there three days a week Working with that instructor and with our kids and we think they're still going to be ready for that apprenticeship level one exam And it's really exciting partnership and and I can see that moving forward to which opens some other avenues for future Programs so now we have the presentation available for you to look at as well So when we're thinking about budget we're thinking about the resources that we need as you know Our resources are sometimes very different from what you might need here at Montpelier High School For example and Jason knows this well, of course So our building trades the the stuff that they're building with cost more money What our electrical class is using cost more money all everything? Any of us going to the grocery store cost more money so all of those things have gone up We're looking at how we get qualified staff. We're looking at improving access for our students We are taking two more classrooms next year for a couple of reasons one to expand that medical professions class from 10 to 12 and To also allow us to provide a full-day opportunity with academics should we be able to move forward with that? And and in the meantime, we're looking at what other potential facilities could we use We've done some research and we know that if we could open a welding program we would be able to fill it really quickly and We need the space to do that that doesn't exist in our current facility So looking at opportunities for other facilities and programming is ahead of us and things that we need to think about You can go ahead let me So thinking about all the things that affect our budget some of them affect yours as well So you're already pretty well aware of this our class sizes have been fairly level. They've been growing We just closed our first round applications for next year and we had in the first round 193 completed applications 313 total started applications. That's more than all of our applications last year In all three rounds and this is just the first round So we are looking to how can we meet the needs of students and industry across our region? We're trying to maximize the space that we have in our current center Which is located at Spalding High School and we're looking to develop a full-day model to better support our students And also think about how we might use those spaces in multiple ways right now We have a program that's in there and that's it We can't do multiple programs in there But if we expand our day there is a potential that we might be able to use Those spaces more than once and therefore fill a program like auto where we get 60 or 70 applicants We can only put 16 students in there with one teacher based on the state rules And so we either need to add staff to get a few more in or maybe use it twice a day So we're looking at those opportunities We know that the anticipated State funding that comes directly to us from the state that base amount has gone up And we also know that insurance as 12.6% is I'm sure that's what you're getting projected as well. That's what we're all getting Our liability insurance, which is also a little different than yours is going up as well and supply costs and as I think Yes, you're in a negotiations time.  We know that the health insurance is going up We know we're going to need two Teachers one for that second emergency services program because we have enough applicants to fill it So we can't have the same instructor doing both programs and one potentially to support the academics We already have a literacy interventionist and a STEM coordinator that can support that work as well there's a Basically the resources pieces for the supply budgets And most of you probably know and maybe maybe don't know funding for CTE is rather Confusing and I think I'm starting to get an understanding of it and I probably will understand it just in time for it to change Because that's one of the Act 127 Potentials is the changing of funding for CTE But our tuition is based on six semester average so in FY 22 our six semester average was a hundred and forty four point one nine and This current year. It's a hundred and fifty five point forty five even though we have two hundred and five students We can only bill out on the tuition for the the six semester average there And we're predicting that next year.  So if you have two hundred five enrolled students now, this is just because you had Fewer students enrolled in the past over the past over the past six semesters So enrollment is growing. Yes, but what you can bill isn't matching it yet, right? And it probably never will it could go either way sure and what I understand is that the six semester average is meant to make it so that you Can predict this for when you're budgeting of It's not going to be 50 kids are going this year and next year only 20 or whatever the interest might be But that it's a little more level and it's gradual Okay, thank you. Mm-hmm So this is a look at the the counts that we had the FTE counts the head counts I Don't this is not a six semester average FTE. This is our actuals and so if you see an automotive I just said that you can only have 16 and you see there's 18 there That's because two of them were out on co-op So they're technically counted as automotive, but they're not in the automotive program They're out working in an industry like 802 Honda or 802 Subaru, which was where the two were last year The other thing in the headcount you'll notice there's some differences for instance cosmetology to there was two more in FY 22 Four more this year. Those are adult students. So they are billed differently So sometimes that comes into play as well. We can charge up to 40% of our tuition for adult students What you see in that projected the 223 total we can do more than that With the co-ops numbers, but we don't have that prediction in there Yes, where they're not work-based learning experience where they can get paid This is this current year Tuition rates across most of the centers not all of them just to see where we fall another board asked that I Come back with where we're gonna fall next year. I don't know anyone else's anticipated tuition yet So I can't provide you with that tonight, but when I do have that I will forward that to everyone So our next year tuition we're anticipating is 19,251 up from about 17.5 Increase of 11% when you take away this the money that comes directly from the state and some of the other reductions that we get What we actually bill the district is the 8781 so that's the anticipated what we would be billing the district and A reminder that sometimes you might have 38 students here and where the six semester average might tell us they're 34 For some it's opposite. There's a few more then Based on that average for the school This is our current year budget by function So you just get a look at what it is and with any school a lot of the funds are on the personnel Qualified instructors qualified staff Bunch of revenue sources other revenues include to it Perkins funding which we get about 250,000 and Perkins funding. It's there's some required components of that every two years With a comprehensive local needs assessment We do have a time grant this year that's paying for one of our instructors So there's lots of different ways that we are funded again very complicated formulas And basically this slide had everything that's on that little postcard that hopefully all of you received We're really thank you for supporting us and and creating this district and then The real work for us is that Berry City and Berrytown have seen the CVCC budget as a separate budget every year and Known that it was already incorporated into their Berry school budgets and all of the other sending school budgets Now we have 16 towns who have never seen it and it's gonna look like there's a Potentially four million dollar budget in front of them that they have never seen before and we need them to know that It's already built into everyone else's school budgets that it's not an additional four million dollars that they're voting for but it's In there it's in yours. It's in Harwoods It's in Washington Central's and so that's the message that we really need to make sure that people get that it's not extra money It's not extra taxes. It's already incorporated and planned on So thank you for spreading that word and the budget passes based on the Entirely of the the budget passes based on the the 18 towns voting on our budget separately And then once that passes regardless of what happens with our sending school budgets You're legally obligated to pay the at that amount of tuition So we need it to pass to be able to charge tuition or we need to Refigure our budget and and also figure out why it might not pass And I think the number one reason right now is that people haven't seen it before and they don't know what it means Do you mean every single eight of those 18 towns to vote? Yes? No, we need a majority who are commingling Ballots, so we won't know who votes yes, and who votes no God, which is intentional. We're only in this together Yeah Last year you saying that you know the center was going to possibly look at some like expansion of the facility in the building It sounds like you're having a pretty Notable period of growth and that so I'm just curious, you know as you're sort of fielding the growth It also sounds like you're exploring Partnerships as the strategy to kind of like expand your campus via other campuses and things So I'm just curious like as a strategy are you still looking at like a facilities expansion? Or are you looking more at like these partnership models? so the board just got it going in May and Hasn't had the opportunity to really talk about this a whole lot they want to have a public forum to discuss what opportunities they would prefer and and if there's the Build a new building or whatever that might be that's going to take some funding that we're not sure where that's going to come From so honestly, we're watching to see what happens with Burlington And where does that funding come from and how does that work out? And is there a way that we can work on that? In the interim we're we're going to look at where can we expand? We know we can't expand on our current campus, but there are buildings that are empty nearby so are there ways to make use of those and to partner with industry to To put forth the things that students need and our industry partners are asking for Thank you. Yeah, it was set to be on the January agenda for our board We're going to be voting for the budget then in a bunch of other things So I think it's going to get pushed to February to start talking about that so the public forum will be after that at some point similarly One of the things that the last time you were here really stood out to me was that you had to turn away half of the Kids who applied largely because of space. Are you still finding that you have to so that the cap was 223 right not counting co-op and co-op students have to have been in a program with us Before we can put them out on co-op and it has to relate to their program. So imagine Maybe we have 245 seats at this point counting co-op. We have 293 applicants first round to go So you're probably going to be turning away two-thirds. Yeah, okay. Yeah, the need is really there The need in the interest. Mm-hmm. Yeah It's Lynn Yeah, we Required to pull information and the state helps a little bit with that to get where are they in six months Getting the information beyond that is very difficult for us because mostly we have parent information We don't always get the information to where the kids are And so that's something that I also had a question about when I visited the twin field board last week And we're looking at ways to partner with the state to find to track down our kids further out and Figure out how much how much further can we look? We would like to see three to five year data right now We've tried to collect that and we don't have enough to really tell you how well they're doing We can tell you which kids are still locally working in the industry But anyone who's gone beyond our region and we've lost touch with and how to get that information That's a really good question. And do you know what it is six months out? Like what percentage of students are placed? It's been really high across most of our programs in that six month month range when we get to two years out It's not quite as high. So they're not necessarily staying in those but it ranges from I think the lowest amount was 50% in one of the Programs and the highest was a hundred percent in one of the programs And I I can probably send that data to Libby and that way she can share it with you Yeah Thank You, Jenny. We really appreciate thank you the update and all your great work with the Julie form district Thanks for sharing gel with me It's now on to budget presentation to Of what the board saw last time and Christina even has some new numbers for the board that was that came in at about 625 tonight She's got a couple of new numbers as well, but Christina take it away Good numbers or I'm sorry good numbers bad numbers. Just say we're numbers All right, so our outfits today, however, we've been together for their large majority of the day and It's been interesting so Yes, we'll start with the budget unknowns There's the glossary of terms in there still because you know, it's nice to refer back to those The budget unknowns right now on the revenue side is the triple e-grant and the transportation aid grant We will be receiving these we just don't have the dollar amounts yet on The expense side the budget unknowns is the career center six semester average So that number hasn't been released to us and we're still in contract negotiations So we're making some assumptions there head Work to articulate a question to me and we met we met after she had a chance to think about it a little bit more. Yep, and Correct me if I'm wrong, but the question was around our continues improvement plan and what what kind of budgetary or Resources we've put towards the two goals that were presented and approved by the board. Yeah, so Just as a recap one of those Goals that's in our CIP is by June of 2024 so keep that date in mind We will decrease our total percentage of chronically absent students from 32.3 percent to 20 percent or less This latest bout with RSV and the flu is not helping our chronic absenteeism numbers Particularly at UES and MS MS however Mia also asked that we put past budgetary items or past resources into this list So it may be some review for the board But also important to know and FY 22 we added Nick Connor who's our community liaison He works incredibly closely with our families who whose children are struggling to come to school on a daily basis or Students or families who are just simply struggling. He works. He works very closely with them I use worth as weight and gold. So he was at an FY 22 through a grant and then I believe the next year we Moved him to local funds. Yes We have five full-time social workers on staff currently two of them work in our rise shine and thrive programs through at UES MS MS and MHS which are our programs that are more therapeutic in nature. So two social worker three social workers I'm sorry to social workers Sorry one share is shared between Main Street Middle School and UES and one is just here at MHS And those have been newly added positions in the last year or so And then we have other we have three full-time social workers that have been in our budget for quite some time before my My time is superintendent This year in the budget is it's such a small budget item that we didn't mention it in our last Presentation but through Nick Connor's efforts. We have a part. We're we're suggesting a partnership with AmeriCorps And so that's in that's within this budget It's approximately 10 to $12,000 which is why it didn't reach the kind of presentation level for you But it is to help this goal Specifically and what will happen is with this money giving to AmeriCorps. I believe we would Get it sounds weird, but to AmeriCorps members, you know, who are usually young adults Will come and work closely with Nick who I can't imagine a better mentor for young adults than Nick Connor And they will be working to mentor with students Who are following in this chronic absenteeism place for things other than sickness like that? We know our six They'll be working on that student to community connections and they'll be working directly with Nick as I said before And that's suggested for this next budget that's never been in the budget before We've transitioned through Nick's work to a different type of truancy model Of course, we still have to follow state regulations around truancy and when we report that that's mandatory But we're working really hard through Nick's effort to get in touch with families prior to those letters So that they have a relationship with person at the school in a different sort of way Nick phrases this as moving from a punishment wagging your fingers to curiosity as to what's going on And so that we can help people Bridge the gap between what's happening in their home lives and why they're not coming to school because we know that's really important We have data dashboards. So our chronic absenteeism is tracked I had was writing a grant just today and needed to know the number and I shot an email off to Nick He was able to tell me in about two minutes now. So for the current state in a school So our data dashboards aren't really helping with that understanding our principals are looking at that data with their SEL teams and Nick Connor And we're Reallocating just recently at the high school. We have a resignation or retirement here at the high school in that for an IA And we're going to reallocate that instructional assistant position So there are more of relationship building attendance for more for the kids who like to hide in the high school So they leave class to go to the bathroom and never come back that that kid Which we do have some and there's some hiding spaces here at MHS So we're really allocating that position so that there's somebody out on the lookout and saying hey What's going on and let me walk you back to class and that kind of thing they also we don't Unlike most high schools We don't currently have somebody directly at the front door because of the way our front office is set up So kids are in and out of our building quite a lot and some of them It's because of privileges and that's the way it's supposed to be for high school because they're supposed to have More privileges and that sort and some just leave right so That person kind of would be stationed there as well So we're reallocating some resources to get at this chronic absenteeism piece at the high school in particular Our other goal by June 2024 will decrease the total number of students needing tier three supports to no more than five percent of each School's told total student population just a reminder that tier three supports is not special education It is for kids who are missing universal skills and the most layman's way to put that out to folks is If you think of like two years behind in a priority standard that we've named So I was a second grade teacher. So I always use second grade examples In second grade reading one thing that second graders work on is decoding multi-syllabic words So they wouldn't be receiving tier three services of kids struggling with that skill But they would receive tier three services if for instance, they don't have all their short vowel sounds because that's a kindergarten skill So we have a focus on intentional student engagement and first instruction so that kids Are engaged with the work and may not miss ideas We're working intentionally with our leadership team on that this year using some strategies from our zonal research We do instructional rounds Monthly with our leadership team and coaches where we're in each building each month as a team go in We have some common learning done by our leader teacher leadership in the coaches And we go in to see what we see in the classroom Then we come back and talk about what kind of engagement strategies we see or don't see So that we can think about what are our teachers doing really well, and what do they need some support on? And that's in a budget presentation because that's of course time time is a big time resource especially for our instructional leaders We've worked very hard to have a clearly defined tiers of instruction priority standards universal skills proficiency Indicators that is all done through Mike Berry's work with our curriculum teams, which of course they get paid mo use Through an MOU they get paid stipends to do that work. It's additional to the job So we have teacher leadership teams who do that work go back to their colleagues get feedback on the work And then bring it back to the team for revision We're in a we're in a really good spot for that We've fully staffed our faculty and the for the experts in providing remediation instruction So we talked about this in the last meeting. We've worked hard to do that over the last five years and increased our Interventionists are human capacity there. So we're near full staff I'd say that probably and we have some things in this budget with literacy for MSMS would be a new position Because they need another one there. I'd say We possibly will be looking more at the high school We have one literacy interventionist and one math interventions currently at the high school Which we may need have a bigger need for eventually and the high school has to continue to work on their system of intervention Because there's some clunks in the system right now that more human resources won't help We need we need to figure out the clunk clinks in the system first That is all under Mike's work So we've made a significant shift this year to move the interventionist supervision evaluation under the director of curriculum and instruction Be for evaluation purposes. So Mike works with the intervention team all the time now They're they're under his office instead of under the principal's office and what this does is a nice vertical articulation of expectation There's no middle person who's going to mix up messages to the team. So it's pretty clear We've added of course the director of social emotional learning and wellness that was added last year last year through RPSR funding because of the way our budget was shaking out with some of the dollar yield and things like that I know I said I didn't want to add FTE for the second round for the board We did actually move this position into the local budget for the budget that we're presenting to you tonight We knew we wanted to do it It seemed like a good time to do it So we have moved what the budget you'll see tonight does have the director of social emotional learning and wellness in the local funds And out of the SR funds since that those funding that funding sources going away We've got two full-time SEL interventionists adding an FY 23 24. They're currently in the IDEA B grant Which is a special education grant We had money in there to spend because of lack of hiring in some areas So the carried forward from previous years. We had the money to do it this year So it's up on school spring. So if anybody wants to be an SEL interventionist with my period Roxbury, they can come do it now This will be one for you. We have someone for ms. ms and But we haven't been able to hire that those positions yet Those would that those two positions would be working directly with students who have social emotional learning goals and an IEP So there that's why it's in the IDEA B grant and then in this goal in this budget. We've suggested Producing panorama, which is a data warehouse That can house a lot of pieces Oh Very thank you very much Completely a new ish component and I believe the requirements are that you have a Knack and skill for working with kids who have that need who know how to you know, I teach executive functioning skills You know how to break skills down That kind of thing and generally I will tell you quite honestly because this is a New need for schools in the long history of schooling. There isn't a licensure category for it There isn't you know, so we would make it work with the licensure category that the person had and do a lot of training Yeah, but it's not it's not one that's going to have right that licensure category You know, we hope to find somebody who's got a lot of training a lot of experience often times other schools Who are doing this right now are getting people from the mental health field who may have been behavior interventionists? With Green Mountain or something like that in the past it and have a teaching license so it's it's That's where we're looking for we had just haven't found anybody yet the Essar funding for the social emotional administrator position was going to last for The next budget plus one more or no Just one more. So is there what sort of happens if it's no longer being? Yeah, good question so what we've been told by the agency of education is because that money was Was targeted towards social emotional learning to keep that money dedicated to that bucket Or that theme and so one of the things that we would really we need to do quite honestly is build our profession our capacity in Collaborative problem solving with kids who are truly having a hard time learning skills learning SEL skills So under Jess Murray our director of social emotional learning. She's putting together right now a Suggested course of study through with think kids which is out of a mental health hospital in in Boston It's based on Ross Green's work if you know this stuff looking at Kristen Could you probably have heard that name before but it's about lagging skills and how do you identify the lagging skills? And how do you work with kids and families to build those skills? It's a very positive approach to behavior Rather than reactionary and disciplinarian. It's more of they have a it's just like a kid who's struggling in reading They have a skill they haven't learned yet, and then we need to figure out what that skill is and how to teach it And so it's through think kids. I may have a Link to something. Oh in my superintendent report. Yeah, so we're gonna focus a lot of that money It's not cheap and we have a large team that need to be trained So it would be all of our social emotional learning interventionist when we hire them It would be all our rise to shine and thrive employees including our instructional assistants We are our assistant principles our principles need training in it So it's a large group of people who would be trained So it's a it's a good chunk of change Continue to utilize those skills or is there ongoing is ongoing a big chunk of change in the Suggestion that Jess is putting together is coaching through think kids So there'd be a person two people who come and coach the teams Yeah Yeah, yeah, so it's like the training the upfront training And then there's coaching for the next couple of years and we're trying to get them to Charge us up front so we can put it in us or you know, but it all put yearly things in Esser Are we should we let Christina go and then okay great All right, so the changes since the last time I met with you Under expenses as Libby just mentioned we reclassified the social emotional Director to local funds from the ARP Esser money because that is going to sunset We added back in the four permanent substitutes We also added some one-time expenses to the high school the middle school into the facilities The state factors that have changed since I last met with you The first draft of equalized pupils was distributed currently Montpelier Roxbury decreased by ten point nine This number is likely to change and it did about 45 minutes ago So that's what I'm gonna I did a draft just an hour ago Anticipating changes, so we'll get to that And also The CLA we have some information on the CLA that's changed So the tax rates with this current budget with all those changes The education spending is up six point five one percent and The education spending per pupil is up seven point four or five percent We received the first draft of equalized pupils I'll talk about that in a little bit the property dollar yield is still set They haven't changed that that'll Probably change by May The CLA from Montpelier decreased by six percent and increased in Roxbury by three and a half percent so with these current assumptions the tax rate would decrease by Point one two from Montpelier, so that's less than one cent and decreased by ten point nine two percent for Roxbury Which is about fifteen cents The next slide shows that impact on the property values based on a hundred thousand two hundred thousand three hundred thousand dollar property value on your tax bill so in Montpelier a hundred thousand dollar property value Your tax bill would decrease by two dollars four dollars and six dollars in Roxbury and be a hundred and fifty seven dollars three hundred and fourteen four hundred seventy two dollars And the next slide Maybe I should jump into the change Yes, so About 45 minutes ago we got an updated equalized pupil Number and what I had ran about 15 to 20 minutes prior to that was if our equalized pupils dropped 22 And what was just released is it's dropping by 18 point something so I was pretty close in my estimate So with that new news And again, these are just estimates So when I go and plug in the new equalized pupils the tax rate for Montpelier would increase by a penny and For Roxbury it would decrease by 14 cents So I just wanted to point that out that we are getting version two of the equalized pupils and That'll be in your next presentation. I believe the next presentation is the public forum So I'll have that ready and we may see a version three by then This slide eight that says ballot language this Libby and I just wanted to bring to you This language changed a few years ago And it's important to note that the current language does not clearly show the voters that our current budget That will be presenting as a decrease in taxes Set aside the fact that equalized pupil or equal taxes. Yeah, so So my note is not Accurate right now, but this is the ballot language So it says shall the voters of Montpelier Roxbury Public School approved the school directors to expend 28 million five 180,000 which is the amount the school directors have determined to be necessary for the ensuing fiscal year It's estimated that this proposed budget ever proved will result in education spending of nineteen thousand three hundred and eighty two dollars per equalized pupil This projected spending per equalized pupil is seven point four or five percent higher than the spending for this current year So that percentage doesn't really reflect what's happening to the tax rate Okay, so it's important to really get that message out there that even though it says seven point four or five percent Which could be a scary number It's not really what's happening to your tax bill. So we wanted to put that out there The if the equalized pupils stays at the new number, it's actually going to be higher than seven point four or five two percent, isn't it? Yes, so yeah, it will go up your number. Okay So well, I guess that's the end of the presentation questions I'll take any question Yeah, it's just that we have a real communication push out once we once the board says yes This is the budget we want to go with or no tell us But we have to put a real communication push out. I think to say yeah the Spending per pupil is increasing and your taxes are not. Yeah, and just for context I mean we've been at this boat before like where did yeah, and unfortunately the You know the numbers don't make intuitive sense and the language is not helpful, but Yeah, I mean I think putting together some fact sheets getting some op-eds out there explaining this You know using using social media as a tool to make sure that people know that when they see seven point Little over point four five That is not Infected and I think I think if we do some education most people Yeah, and it's what you know combined with what we heard from CVCC as well With different language for the tech center like both of those things may be scary to voters, right? Yeah the way it's presented If you just walk into the ballot box without any context the way it's presented is can be incredibly this leading in terms of How it's going to impact your pocket? I can tell you My professional organization bad bow they did a survey and asked all of us business managers How detrimental this language is to our budgets passing or failing? And it was I think just about 80% said it's very detrimental to getting budgets You know are getting the information out there correctly, so they are looking at you know possibly Advocating for change in this area And Lynn, I want to make sure you're part of the discussion, so Yeah, go ahead and feel free to to pipe up or raise hand, but I know it's Easy to fall off on zoom Yeah, no, I'm here and thank you. Yeah, I was can you and I spoke about that a little bit I was concerned that it might not be really clear to voters Especially with you know people worry about the reappraisal and what that means and and I understand that's not going to have a terrible impact on People's property taxes the way that that new Valuation works, but that's not always clear to people and so I think it is really important for us to get that Information out there, you know the real effect of what's happening with the school budget. Oh I have one more question Libby, do you have a is there some kind of printout that shows? The line item change amounts like I know you added in staff and you maybe added in some more facility. Is there some way? And it may have been in The changes for this second round you mean Lynn. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Christina. Do you have they be highlighted somehow in the On the sheet so that the ones that have changed Are evident when we look at it. We can see how where those the amounts of money went To what categories during the public forum will do a much longer presentation of the board and you'll be able to see where everything's been changed And facilities put the oh, yes, so I did Write down some of the changes so for the high school they increased on the fall harvest festival Prom and project grad they increased the response to intervention RTI MSMS they mostly increased supplies for racial justice and their innovation Teachings and under facilities. We added back in the guidance we at Main Street Middle School So those were the highlights of the changes I just wanted to add a little bit of the context for why I was asking about the What's now slide for in the presentation, which is that the continuous improvement plan is What the board approved in I think it was June? for This year and next and the way that I think about it is for as the as my From where I said as a board member that one of the big questions that I'm asking myself is are we spending the money to meet the needs that we have are we spending enough money to meet the needs that we have and This the CIP is a very good example of Libby and her team looking at the The strengths and weaknesses of the district and saying these are the areas that we need to focus in on and so I thought the connection of Here's what here's the money that we're spending right now to address to get make progress Toward these goals was a good way of demonstrating for me to wrap my head around and then also demonstrate for the community What we are spending to meet some of our biggest needs So I want us to just add that bit of context for those who are not necessarily showing up at every single board meeting and following the play-by-play and And also that was very helpful. So thanks for digging into that Libby the just one Clarifying question. I think on slide four is when you say the fully staff faculty expert That is we did add One one and in interventionist is that is for this particular budget? Yes. Yes. Yeah one one Interventionist has been added to the local budget Literacy at Main Street Middle School We have shifted funding sources for other interventionists, right around a bit, right? Great Yeah, just we got a question of the chat I don't want to Exclude members of the public, but just to follow protocol be fair our public comment session At regular meetings is where we take comment from non board members Otherwise we don't have questions During the presentation And we are having you know another budget presentation where there will be more time for for public questions. So I appreciate the interest but Even as an employee of the district where we're not we're not taking questions. So thank you And you can certainly email your questions to us and to Libby and we can answer them prior to that or It didn't have one other question that wasn't related to the slide for but Pretty soon we're going to be looking at the policy monitoring report for the special our special education policy to see and the That we're not in compliance and that we have an action plan. And so my question is Is there are there any other one-time funds? I know we don't want to put more staffing into this budget But are there any other one-time funds that would help us with the work to be done to get into compliance a lot of the compliance that you see it saw that we were Dinged on by the agency of education or a lot of accountability measures dates missed Lack of notes. They were they weren't so much training human resources needs. They were lack of accountability on the staff's part Or holding holding the staff accountable that we can talk about in the policy monitoring So I don't believe there's any need for any financial Resources to be put there right now. There needs to be leadership and oversight put there right now. Gotcha, okay? Thank you Of course, I know Emma had And I'm guessing answers no, you know, there was some fun balance money put in to The general budget is that still all in there in the same amount? Okay, and then I think Emma Speaking from an email Is this question whether all or any of that should be in there Well, if you if the board wants to take that out it will increase the tax rate And if you want to increase the amount of fund balance, it will decrease or use from the fund balance. It would decrease Yeah, yeah, that would that would be the board's prerogative on what they want to do there So just to put that in make sure I understand what you just said in our first in our budget presentation to one meeting Two weeks ago what we saw was a planned transfer of $400,000 from the fund to balance into the general fund to cover general fund costs Yeah, and Emma's asking is that still the plan and you're saying yes It is the budget you saw tonight still that is still the plan $400,000 from the from the Rather than keeping it in savings essentially right exact and the effect of Changing that, you know, especially since we've added some things in would be Making it from right now it looks like it's going to be essentially a Flat or relatively flat in terms of from a pillar at a tax decrease for Roxbury to an increase from a pillar and Probably a continued decrease probably yeah, probably a smaller decrease for us very And and what does that leave us in the fund balance, and if you take out the 400,000 I think we're still well over the 2% required But I did want to raise that on behalf of Emma You got the number No, I'm not feeling any pressure Any questions or things we'd like to see Whenever we come together next January something You got it got The unaudited. Oh, I'm sorry. I just said looks good The unaudited fund balance as of 630 22 is 3,894 894,000 so that's before we take that 400,000 out for this upcoming budget So yes, and then you have some set-asides So once you have take away your assigned fund balance and committed fund balance, you're down to 1,593,000 so You'd end up With 1,093 1,193,000 A little high with my 2 million Those are big numbers to hold in my head. Can you remind me what our Policy says we must have in the fund balance, please Cristina two Total budget two percent, which is around 500,000. Is that right? Toodle budget is here. So two percent of that number two percent of that would be like 543,000 Okay, thank you Um Yeah, so we're we definitely are not in policy violation very far Um Further questions for Cristina or the baby right, I just have for my information and question the why does the property how The property dollar yield comes out in may Why doesn't that have an influence? What is the what it what could be the influence? Why doesn't that have an influence on the budget that's voted on in march? Don't understand that We've gotten the projection And the projection could change slightly typically does slightly And then it comes out in may because the legislator it has to be voted on by the legislative body And that's when they vote on it. It's pretty close It's yeah, it's very slight difference from the projection Yeah, but the I mean even the budget that's approved in march by the voters The the numbers can change after that depending on what the legislature does. I was just out of the past. I mean the you know I think it was three or four years ago where We passed and yeah, it was like a two percent increase and it ended up being like a 0.5 percent decrease by the time The legislature finished in May Pertune or July or whatever the commission says I said those are the kind of changes you like But it can go the other way too And the last last two years were slightly unprecedented how much it's increasing Prior to those two years in my you know 12 years of doing this That number's changed 100 to 200 dollars and increased which would decrease your tax bill So that's been the trend. It's just 100 or 200 dollars going in your favor But this $2,000 increase from your years unprecedented in the last couple of years Because of the the fund balance and that fund so Why a 7.45 percent overall increase does shows up as a zero percent That's essentially what I need to communicate with people that Understand it close to as well as I do Maybe not quite as well Factors outside of our control If we were to have a normal year, you know from this year to well even f y 24 this budget To f y 25 you might see that if it was a normal year go up 200 dollars maybe so it wouldn't have such an impact on your Overall tax rates Again, it's just it's a large dollar amount this year. So I think we're done. No, this is great and Excited to Visit it back in january, but Yeah, great job, uh, putting this together. It's very well explained and Yeah, thank you for page four Yeah, yeah, that was very helpful Thanks, christine. Happy holiday It's festive. Yeah, it's uh, I'm surprised st. Jean rare matching So policy monitoring So we've got d7 f 13 c 28 Um, so entertain a motion to approve those and then we can discuss them once we have a motion another motion I'll make a motion to approve policy monitoring reports for d7 special education f 13 in district elementary school transfer policy and c 28 transgender and gender non-conforming students Okay, do I have a second? I'll second it So discussion and I think You answered one of my questions. I'm sure others too. It seems like, you know, obviously, we don't want to see my compliance but it seems like most of the non-compliance are Kind of management systems things that are being addressed through leadership. Yes. Yes Yes, so we were required when the agency of education found these were from the agency of education report from last year um, and They have Response when you get that letter, right there you must take these actions to correct it Um, and so peggy su has been working on that I asked her today that as of this moment Would we be in compliance with all of these measures and she said yes We would be in compliance with all these measures, but I didn't think that would be an accurate representation of this policy to monitor without letting the board know of what right we were um Turn cued into In the beginning of the year peggy su is excellent in this kind of thing. She's a veteran special education director And so she has been on it And has recognized that there's a lot of systems and accountability that have fallen by the wayside over the last couple years Through covet. So she is on it and and states that we are in compliance as of today And I wanted to be fair in our representation of where we were Other questions on any of these three policy monitoring reports Um, I have a question. It's lin again about the um special Report um, there were I don't remember seven eight nine different items listed it was that Was that one problem per item or were there many Were there several per item Of non issues of non compliance plan. I can't answer that for all of the The things listed lin because i'm not sure um, I know that with the timeline pieces there was um some lack of accountability around timelines for starting evaluations What would trigger an initial evaluation? um, and that has been fixed, but I could probably State pretty honestly that that was that there were multiple pieces of evidence that initial evaluations weren't started in the in the timeline necessary Or that there was a sufficient response time to initial evaluation requests Peggy suit did some training around just these areas. It was actually our classroom teachers They were having difficulty here and not recognizing their role in this process that when a parent Says to them, I'd like a special education evaluation that that's not a conversation with them That's an immediate email to the director of special education to start that process And so we've provided some clarity to our general education teachers because that's that's typically where that request goes to So We she's she's on top of this. She's much more On special education general education. She's meeting with our principals weekly You know, it's it's a much different scenario than it has been in the past two years in special education right now under Peggy's leadership Yeah, I can understand the with COVID how things could really become more complicated and Many years ago. I did actually do monitoring for the department of ed for special education compliance I can tell you that no school ever got a report that was 100 clean, you know, it's just It's kind of an impossible task. There's so many moving parts, but I'm glad that you know, you're on it Thank you. Yeah awesome Does the audit occur annually or is audit right where the review does a it's too different There's monitoring and there's audit right the audit is a big one where there can be findings and And some very negative consequences should the monitoring is I'm monitoring your practices right now And your policies and your procedures and all of that kind of thing and and we're going to make suggestions I'm not sure what these came through of monitoring or audit And I'm not positive if it happens yearly my hunch would be it hasn't because I haven't seen this type of documentation Or it hasn't in the past two and a half years. Anyway, which has been fluky. So it's a hard Not normal And this would be this is the aoe not And the aoe would run an audit that which is different than the one that we've now work That's the consultant to completely different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, okay The agency of education as linja said is is like rules and compliance. Yeah ID a rules and got it Where there are specific dates that things have to you only have 15 days after this and you need to have evidence that you've Done what you need to do in those 15 days, you know that kind of thing. Okay, that's what they're looking at Other questions or comments? Yeah I was a favor of approving the three positive reports d7 of 13 and c28 I Any opposed? Great. Thanks. Um, so now we have a second policy readings for the policy committee Which is a 20 through a 24 plus a third reading of f2, but let's start with a 20 through a 24 The policy committee made some changes I think to address concerns that came up Largely at the first reading which was back in november Um, those are those were red line in the links um I've don't yeah the attachments the attachments were yeah the attachments I just noticed that today the attachments did not have the red lines all the red lines are in the ink Or in the legs No, they didn't they didn't come through the pdf. No, you probably lose them in the pdf. Yeah So given that it sounds like a few people were confused we could Well we can address things at the third reading and possibly have a fourth reading if people aren't happy with it because we have to approve it at the fourth reading but I just noticed that but the the changes are in and I think we addressed most of the concerns, but I also I'm guessing because I Just noticed this afternoon that a lot of people Probably did not go to the links and look at the changes. So So if people did and have comments otherwise, we'll do a third reading with the idea that we may have A fourth reading if we still you'll That's are needed. Oh, you're saying if we pull up the agenda and click on the link and link on it Got it. What happens is when Anna converted those to pdf's all the pages were lost. Yep, but if you pull those up you can see the changes Marked Well, I think I think I could still ask the questions that I have Yeah, I mean if you can if we can ask questions in in real time Great, I mean otherwise given that it's before the holidays and I'm sure people are busy doing things I'm not sure sitting here and having us review them But yeah, if you've got some some of the questions you can pull up We can definitely address those or at least have them so at the at the last meeting liby raised the point that on A20 there's language about The board will Meetings regular meetings to be held at least twice per month And suggested to change that to on average twice per month So that we don't get ourselves good catch stuck and you did not make that change I wasn't sure well, I mean, maybe there's a good reason you didn't make that change that's okay, too Yeah, there's a good reason we didn't talk about it On average, I'm gonna just put a comment now on average Sometimes in the summer Although do we want on average because that means if we take July off we might Yeah, but if you include the retreats that the board has like there's some months that you have three Okay, three meetings that make up for it Um Because we might as well just put language in there that yeah The board meets this many times did this many times Yeah, yeah, the the board can end this discretion Yeah reduce the number of meetings during the summer so something for the policy committee Yes, well, okay. Yeah, but definitely thanks for noting that Mia and for putting a note in the in the notes. Yep My other question on A20 was Um Whether or not and I think I might have emailed you this one whether or not it's useful to include any sort of Um expectation for board members to be Prepared I think it's added in Oh, there it is. Thank you Great, I think that might have actually been the original it was just it was just buried in a weird place. Okay, great. Okay Those are all of my notes on A20 page to be under responses Uh Yeah, and then uh, also in a 23 or a 24 my computer just decided to stop working uh a 24 is board superintendent relations uh And again, sorry was another meeting but lily had raised a question about to actually agreed with about reasonable efforts to Not give directives um Which I can definitely see a board member being interpreted like I tried not to give a directive, but And I decided like I had to Uh, I made the effort. Um, so I think we'd change it. I would hopefully be a little more Direct without the word which is that they shouldn't intentionally give a directive Or Something that could likely be interpreted as a directive basically to try to you know that To make up for the situation that there could be a misunderstanding and um And and you know a board member who made Yeah, an honest mistake or something that you know could have been interpreted in different ways Is not out of compliance, but not to give a board member room To actually give a directive So, you know if if a board member comes in as a parent or as part of like a You know a caregiver group and You know it makes a comment at a meeting and you know the response you get is You know they said this like do I have to do it? um You know if If if one that wasn't the intent of the board member and two it's not the type of thing where It's pretty obvious that it would be taken that way. It's not out of compliance And I think all the other things were relatively minor, but um, yeah, but take a look through Thanks for raising that Mia I don't think it'll take a ton of time and hopefully We can get a result of third meeting, but if we need To go back and do a final draft after that that don't think that's a big deal Um I did have a question on 8 23 as well. Yes, I'm gonna pull up the I don't think that track changes would I don't think I missed a track change We have This phrase the board will assure that there are resources devoted to implementing the strategic plan and will receive monitoring reports on a quarterly basis To ensure effective implementation of the strategic plan So we the board doesn't have a strategic plan right now. Do you know what we mean when we say strategic plan? Yeah, I think that's another good point and we had talked about I think it's under implementation It's kind of like midway through that paragraph It was 8 24 8 23 8 23 That may be Okay, yeah flag that because I think we might have Removed a requirement in the strategic plan elsewhere. I don't think It's the intent of the policy committee to lock us into a strategic plan not knowing what that is Okay, I just I just added a comment Great for you to be able to look at perfect and on 8 24 I had also asked if maybe it made sense for us to in Bring back in from the old version Asset the the headings of asset protection and communication and support to the board yep Did you all discuss that and decide it was not necessary to have those Um, put a note back in I would have to go look at the notes Um, I know that your comments are in front of us and I just don't remember how that went Okay, um, yeah, just flying that again. So we we know Thanks, man. Any other Comments or questions? Hey, I don't think it matters from a 23 the year is The wrong year. Yeah 20202 Oh down at the bottom. Yeah the vba version version So where is it with that one? It's a bit far off at the very bottom just in the brackets. It just says Oh 24 23 23 Also, yes second. Yeah, we don't we don't need to be around them In the second paragraph in the second sentence It says the board will adopt to implement the vision which moves the district forward and its goals for student achievement That's probably where I used to say a strategic plan Yeah, that's missing something Oh, yeah Where is that again second paragraph second sentence Oh Yeah Yeah, so we I think Okay, so I think we took out a strategic plan there and replaced it with goals and Oh, yeah, and then just didn't change it down there. And then just didn't change it down there These get passed on to and I to make for the board packet They can't be in track changes like just make the changes In the document You can fold them or underline them or something like that so that they transfer into a pdf Because I can on this document. I can't see the track changes and it sounds like rat can't either Yeah, oh even on the google doc. Yeah. Yeah, and then the other pieces We've been we've been asked not to use google docs in this way, too So I think yeah, so I just want to make sure that it's And this way yeah because we're in a public forum this way, but I can't see What you're looking at. Okay, so that makes sense. Not neither can two board members So I think instead of using the track changes just write it directly into the document. All right, perfect and just For Anyone out there like all of all of these changes were made In a lifetime at the blog Yeah, we are not we are not newly in this document I don't know why Any other questions on age 20 through 8 24. Otherwise, we have third reading of policy f2 Which is the non-discriminary mascots in school Branding No, thank you to the policy committee for all this work Oh It's not on the agenda we have to put on the next agenda. Lynn has kindly Agreed to step into amanda's posts of the negotiations and equity committee so we can formally make this appointment Next time I think just given that she's new she's thinking two committee assignments to start might be better than three Which leaves an opening on the policy committee. I know ret you've expressed Yeah, at least in the past maybe before you had time to think I see that some of those meetings are like the middle of the work day That's really hard Move those to later on the day. I see that there's one coming up at three o'clock. I mean I can I do really I was thinking about this yesterday like oh, I really want to participate and contribute But I'm frightened that I'll it'll be hard not that I don't want to do hard things But I don't want to not be able to follow through. Yeah, um, but um Well, what do you think about it? I think I think um, you know, I mean I've talked about it. I'm not going to balk now But hopefully when we make our plans and we find times I'll be part of that discussion and and that'll make it more accessible Okay, great. Um Yeah, and if anybody else is interested on being on the policy committee had four in the past, but it would be um Yeah, just given that it The facts policy it might be good to have a member of Roxbury out as well. So, um, yeah, so let's let's uh formalize those When do we get back in january? Uh, and just kind of a living thing a note to put that on the on the agenda um That'd be great. Um Sorry for the little detour from third-degree, you know policy f2 or new policy f2 um Any comments or questions on that? Okay, great. So that will move to Being a consent agenda approval item next time Um But you couldn't on 23 and the link could not yeah, huh interesting. Okay. Um, Yeah, okay, and I'll I'll let Emma know that we need to Uh Except them. Thank you. That's helpful. Um I'm gonna go to a motion to adjourn Because I think that's where we're at So moved. Okay, great. Um Enjoy the holidays and the well-deserved break everyone. Uh Thank you again for living in her team for Great budget and giving us in good shape and Thank you to everyone in the district for a wonderful year so far. I know that After a couple of tough ones, I know there's a lot of challenges this year, but I think we're all happy to be in a slightly more normal place At least moving there and building and hopefully getting back to where We all want to be which is focusing on making this the best district for kids And thank you Lynn. Yes. And thank you Lynn. Yes first board meeting Thank you Lynn. Uh, and maybe you can make the second on adjourn since we've called you out because we have a motion I'll second


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Welcome to Condo Insider, what you show about living in an association. Many times I've said about, estimated about 40% of our population lives in some form of an association. And this shows to help board members, owners, and vendors who work with associations understand our industry better. And I have my wonderful friend and co-host, Jane Sugumur here. Hello. Nice to see you again. I can't wait to interview you. What's going on? We have to stop meeting like this. I know. But anyway, I want to tell you a hot topic today. I was reading the paper, Star Advertiser, maybe two days ago. There's this big headline with this condo association, board of directors, all the lawsuit to prevent an owner from serving on the board, the footnote, the owner is the owner of a LLC, and therefore is a member of the LLC, and the condo association took the position, or he's not the owner, he's really a tenant, and the new role says tenants can't serve on the board. What do you think? Well, coincidentally, Hawaii Council was the initiator of that change back in 2017. And the reason why we made that change is because, you know, a concern was brought to my attention that there were these non-profits, I think it was a church, who owned several units in a condominium. And apparently they were allowing the tenants that they rented to, to basically be their surrogates and run for the board. And you know, tenants have a different perspective than owners. And we're talking about doing the budget and spending money and making policy that affects all the unit owners. There was a concern that these tenants of this non-profit, you know, just, you know, didn't have the proper perspective, you know, and the statute says that if you're going to be on the board, you've got to be an owner. And so the bill was basically to clarify it so that in this particular building that the non-profit would have to have their officers, directors, or somebody that was affiliated with their organization, you know, serve on the board. Not their tenants.  And this lawsuit that was in the newspaper, I think it was the person who was trying to run for the board, Mr. Siddiqui. He was the one who filed a TRO, which was granted by the court. And basically the court said that he could place his name on the, be nominated for a board and at this annual meeting, you know, run for a position on the board. My recollection was when we first talked about this issue of tenants back, I'm on your board at Hawaii Council, was that the current statute has some language for like entities like corporations or LLCs that says that they can have a quote authorized representative, which in a way is vague. And so in this case, it was a church, the one, although there's other projects that have similar problems, the church would print as their authorized representative, the tenant. And the tenant would look at this as, well, I don't want to spend any money because then the rent will go up if the maintenance fees go up. And so their interest was not, with the fiduciary role, a typical board would be to protect the property and protect the values. And there was a lot of discussion that the tenants were not engaged in the same level as owners. Is that kind of how you- That was the concern that was addressed and that was why we moved forward with the bill. And it was basically to clarify that language, an authorized representative. But the authorized representative had to be an officer or director or somebody affiliated with the corporation couldn't be the tenant who was occupying that corporate owner's unit. In this case, in the paper, if I remember correctly, the owner, you can pronounce his name better than I can, but- Yeah, I think it's Siddiqui. And he and his wife were the sole members of an LLC.  So I think the Dutch made a correct decision by granting the TRO and allowing Mr. Siddiqui to run for the board. Well, I agree with you. I was thinking this thing through. And you have an LLC owned by the husband and wife. They certainly have a financial interest in the property. And then the board, I guess, refused to put his name because he probably submitted the eight and a half by 11, I want to run for the board. And they probably refused to put his name on the ballot. And he thought to get a TRO saying, well, I'm really an owner. And then the board took no, you're a tenant. Well, I have a hard time with that because if you're an owner, typically, even if I run it out to you, I can still run for the board as an owner. I don't know what the tendency issue is. He's truly an owner through his LLC. Right. And they are the sole owners of the LLC. It's not like there are other owners. So they are the sole owner. So basically, it is just ownership in a different format. And that's consistent with the change that we made when we changed the law because we really wanted to make sure that people who serve on the board do so with an owner's perspective, with a financial interest in the decisions that are being made so that you're not holding back and not wanting to raise maintenance fees because your concern is going to cost you more money. I mean, because those decisions that the board makes regarding maintenance fees and reserves, they have to do that. They have to exercise their independent judgment under the condo statute. And they have to do that with the interests of everybody in the building. In other words, you have to spend money to keep the building safe and to keep the condition of the building in a safe manner. So that means you've got to do regular maintenance. Why do you think the board took that position? I really don't know. But maybe this person was a person of express concern. But to me, that is a good thing because boards of directors are supposed to exercise their independent judgment when they act on the board. They're not supposed to all be yes people. In other words, you have a board president who kind of calls the shots. And if you have eight people who are there as yes people, I think they're in breach of the fiduciary duty because they're not exercising their independent judgment. They're not thinking independently. They're just saying, oh, yeah, whatever the president wants, we're going to go with them. That's wrong. I think it's healthy to have a person. I always said, if you're an inclusive board, if you have people representing all sides on the board, that's better because then you have everybody's interest represented and a dissuicing can be made. Right. And you have different points of view. And you may not agree with the points of views that are made. But if you have 300 people who live in a building, not everybody is going to have the same point of view. And the fact that you have board members who are expressing those different points of view is healthy. I agree with you. It's healthy. And it may result in some very interesting and aggressive discussion. But I think it is healthy. Better than having somebody saying, OK, this is the way it's going to be. And eight people just following along like sheep. I mean, that's scary. I believe I'm correct in that, just so the audience knows a little bit about this, I believe it's a five-member board. And I believe that one member by their documents is the commercial owner, which is the developer of the project. So that kind of guaranteed one seat representing the commercial interest. Right. That's provided for in the statute if it's a mixed-use building. Right. And then the other four seats were owners who were elected by the ownership that it wasn't a developer-controlled board where the developer got those four people on. But the owner who wanted to serve on the board's complaint was that the four were so close to the developer that the things they should be doing to protect the general interests of the association weren't carefully being looked into. So I want to run for the board to make sure all the homeowners are protected. And that was kind of the issue. And then under the current statute that if you want to run for the board, you're entitled to put an 8 and 1 half by 11 sheet of paper and the proxy mail out, telling people why they should give you the proxy or vote for you, whatever your business with the association is. And he was soliciting proxies. And they told him that he wouldn't be eligible to serve on the board. And he could not have his name on the ballot because he was a tenant not an owner. And I think that the judge's decision to the contrary by granting the TRO was a correct decision based on the bill that we got through the legislature. Yeah, I just find it upsetting that there's one thing if there's a lot to be on the board and ran and lost, that'd be one thing. But to deny a person's right to run, when he owns 100% the LLC he and his wife, certainly is a de facto owner of some sort and not getting technical in the language. I don't think the statute intended for it to be used to say, well, because your company owns it, you own the company, you're really a tenant so you're not eligible. Right, and in this case, if it's a corporate owner and an LLC is a corporate owner, they could designate their sole holder, interest holder in an LLC to be their representative. And I think he'd be able to serve because he's not a tenant. Well, I was talking to a couple of lawyers, I was down at the legislature, catching up on some bills that were up for decision making. And I ran into a couple of lawyers who kind of represented the association on this matter. And they were arguing that he really is a tenant, you can't call it both ways. If the LLC owns it and the person's occupying it, they're a tenant of the LLC and I'm saying, but wait a minute, the LLC can still appoint an authorized representative and they're saying, yes, that's true, but because the statute now says tenant, you can't wear both hats and so he's really a tenant even though he's also an authorized representative of the LLC. Well, I would ask to see the rental agreement. Is there a landlord-tenant relationship? I don't think the LLC can evict the Siddiqui's from their unit. You know, I would want to see a lease agreement, a rental agreement. If there's no rental agreement, there's no landlord-tenant relationship. And the landlord-tenant relationship is defined by statute. Well, it's just... In HRS section 521.  And this year we had maybe 40 bills put in the legislature. And we see all of these bills that come into play sometimes of quote, the rogue board, the board who beating up and the poor innocent homeowner. And more times than not, you know, I find boards trying to do their job through the best of their ability, their owners, they gotta pay the assessments like everybody else. Not to say there isn't a board who makes a bad business judgment. These types of things don't help us with the legislature. No, they don't. To me, I think it's common sense. And, you know, if someone is saying that the Siddiqui's are tenants, then I would suggest they come up with a rental agreement or a lease agreement. I don't think there is. You know, I doubt if there is because they own the company. And I don't think they pay rent to the LLC. Especially even pretend for a second, they had a lease agreement between their LLC and themselves. Okay? Well, can't the LLC still point them as the authorized representative? Yes, because they have an ownership interest in the company. They were trying to argue technicality. Well, because you own the interest and I can point you the authorized representative. But because you're living there and you have your quote, in this concept, a tenant. That, because also the tenant can't serve.   We're gonna decide because of the contradiction in the language of the law, you can't serve, which seems undemocratic. Yeah. And, you know, and in this case too, it seems like they're, that while it appears, I think, you know, from just reading the article, that, you know, the existing board is trying to keep this person off the board because he may be a so-called troublemaker. But, you know, to me, I think it's refreshing. If, I mean, it's not always fun to have people on the board that disagree, but it's better than to have people who do nothing, who don't speak up, who don't, you know, provide a point of view. To me, that's more frightening, you know, to say, okay, this is the way we're gonna do it. Is there any discussion? And there's nothing, you know? And to me, that's scary. That's frightening. We're gonna come back and help this thing some more and also the legislature. But we're gonna take a short break for a minute. We'll be right back with Kondo Insider and James Sugimura. Hi, I'm Rusty Komori, host of Beyond the Lines on Think Tech, Hawaii. My show is based on my book, also titled Beyond the Lines, and it's about creating a superior culture of excellence, leadership, and finding greatness. I interview guests who are successful in business, sports, and life, which is sure to inspire you in finding your greatness. Join me every Monday as we go Beyond the Lines at 11 a.m., aloha. Hey, aloha, my name is Andrew Lanning. I'm the host of Security Matters Hawaii, airing every Wednesday here on Think Tech, Hawaii, live from the studios. I'll bring you guests, I'll bring you information about the things in security that matter to keeping you safe, your coworkers safe, your family safe, to keep our community safe. We wanna teach you about those things in our industry that, you know, may be a little outside of your experience. So please join me, because Security Matters, aloha. Welcome back to Kanda Insider. We're talking about the story and the star advertiser a couple of days ago, where an owner asked for a restraining order because he was the owner of an LLC and lived in the project, and the board refused to put his name on the ballot.  And because the LLC owns it, and yeah, you own the LLC, but you're still a tenant, you can't serve. And we've been kind of going through, that doesn't make, doesn't pass the common sense test. And we talked about the legislature, gets involved in these things, they think of the rogue boards, these problems. And the best example I can think of is House Bill 347 this year, where the bill's proposal was, when boards have a, where you can send in your proxy, you have four choices. Climb only, board majority, board equals, we call it, and an individual. And the proposed bill was to do away with board majority, and they were saying that because the board majority has a great deal of control, it votes a lot of proxies theoretically, not always, but theoretically, that they control the election and we don't want the board to be able to do that. What do you think? Well, my response to that is, if that's their concern, then they need to educate their membership and the other unit owners to not mark that box. I mean, there's four choices, and some people want to give it to the board as a whole. And if they are, if there's a group that's concerned about it, they need to lobby and they can send out letters and flyers and say, don't mark it. In fact, when people call me and say, you know, which box should I check? I said, quorum only. I tell them, and they ask me why. I says, because unless you really are, trust this board or there's somebody that you want to give your proxy to, if you're not sure, just do quorum only. That means that they're gonna have a quorum. I mean, you're not gonna be at the meeting, but at least your proxy will allow them to have a quorum so that they can carry on their business. And because it's very political when you say to give it to the board, because sometimes, you know, that's perceived as giving the board a whole lot of authority. Well, kind of boards are very similar, in my view, as the state legislation. People just don't get involved. They don't know who's voting for what, not voting for what, who's doing what. They don't go to the board meetings of the Kind of Association. And you get down to it at the end, you have to have an election per the bylaws. You have to have people to represent the association. And so some owners look at it and say, we know I'm generally happy with the way things are. The board as a whole must be doing a good job. I'm gonna give it to the board as a whole. And if you take that away from them, you're denying their rights to give the proxy to who they want. Right. And that's why I say, if people have a problem with that box, then they need to go out and educate the unit owners in their building, not to market. I mean, I can't see any benefit in removing it, because there are some people who wanna give the proxy to the board as a whole. Well, let's go back in history where that proxy war box came from.  So prior to that, boards were saying we wanna keep the good of the project going, give the board president John your proxy. So prior to the proxy law, it was actually consolidating more power with the president because the boards wouldn't just keep their mouth shut. They go out and say, look, we wanna keep going what we're doing. We think we're doing a good job. They'll give our president John the proxy. So then all of a sudden, John, my example, the president had all this concentration of power versus the board majority, which would be the majority of those board members in attendance at the meeting. So to deal with that proxy or that option is not gonna change things, it may make them worse. Yeah, and by giving it to the board doesn't mean that the board, because you could have a divided board. And so you have a nine member board and you may have five guys who decide, oh, no, we wanna vote for Joe and Sam. And the other people say, no, we wanna vote for Susie and Marie, right? And so they have to vote. And so the majority wins, right? And so it sometimes can backfire, you know? And it depends on who's on the board and who they wanna support. I'm just glad in your example you didn't say vote for Richard because I'm not running. I've been with condo board for 25 years and I'm not running. It's a tough job and people don't give the boards enough credit because they have to make a lot of tough decisions, you know, that they may even hurt themselves in their own pocket book. But they have a fiduciary duty and an obligation under the statute. And I don't think they get much credit and they get an awful lot of anguish. But you know what today is, right? As far as House Bill 347, right? No. Well, didn't get a hearing. Oh, so that means that it's dead? It's dead. Oh, okay. Because tomorrow, Friday, it has to be out of its last committee to cross over or go to a conference committee. And House Bill 347 did not get a hearing. So as of today, it's dead for this year. It's a two-year biennial legislature so it could come back alive again. And the other bill that's dead, so everybody knows, is the Senate Bill 269, which gave the board the right to make the building a non-smoking building. Oh, okay. That didn't get a hearing either. Oh. So that's dead too. Okay. At least for the moment. All right. You know. But because it's a two-year legislature, it could come to life at the beginning of next session. It could. And, but anyway, the number of bills out there, we're probably now down to five or less that are still kind of out there in some form or another. And probably three of the five don't have much impact on anything. But we have a couple of minutes left. Let's just review real quick the basic process and how you get elected if you want to run for the board. Okay. And it probably begins with the notice of the annual meeting. Right. And then it tells us, it says how many seats are open. Or it says if you want to run, let us know.  You notify the property management company. They can send out with the annual meeting notice. An eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper. I remember the days used to be a hundred words. We'd get things sent in and a board when they were angry would say, what do we count? The phone number is two words or one word. They'd get down. Oh, that's a hundred and two words. We're not going to send it out. Because the guy put his middle initial and his name there. That counts as a word. And we as the management company just get frustrated because depending on how you look at it, you could argue that forever. And we say, look, doesn't it cost us any more money to have an eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper? Just take a copy and stick it in. And so the law has changed to, which made our job a little easier. But the reason it's limited in scope doesn't prevent the owner from getting an owner's list, sending out their own mailing, making phone calls, telling everybody they want to run for the board, just like our politicians do. It is. It's just like running for office.  Right. And so then you go to the annual meeting. Right. And there's an issue they'll say, do we have any nominations? And typically the script will say, Susie, Bob and Jane said they want to run for the board.  When I run for the board, there's no objections or names they've already put on the ballot. Is there any other nominations? And maybe there are or there not that a vote is conducted. Right. And what a lot of people don't realize is that when you say I want to run for the board, you're not running until you're nominated at the annual meeting. Right. You can say I'm a candidate and I want to run for the board. But at that moment in time is when you become officially a candidate. And so you've got to have someone nominate you at the annual meeting. You don't have to be present. Someone has to nominate you at that annual meeting and then there's a vote by a percentage of common interests or there's different ways. Sometimes it's by a lot of it's a homeowner association. And that's when the vote is determined and sometimes there's cumulative voting or whatever but that's when you get elected. Right. Then and there. Right. So what happens if we don't have enough candidates for the board? If you don't have enough candidates then at the next board meeting, the board, it's a vacancy that the board can fill. And so if you're, if you're still, if they have vacancies on the board, all you have to do is notify the board or notify the property manager that you're interested in sitting on the board and at the next board meeting, the board can vote you in and appoint you. And then that means that at the next annual meeting you have to stand for election. The question I often get, I kind of alluded to it in my comments a couple of minutes ago, is that you're nominated at the annual meeting and that's when the vote is taken. There's Robert's rules and procedural issues but there is no provision with the Hawaii condo law for mail-in voting. No. So we're governed by Robert's rules and meetings and nominations and meetings so they're current, that's your by-law stated elsewhere. There are no provisions for mail-in ballots. No, you have to be there in person or have a proxy. Right, and so even if you're a candidate, you may not be there, you can still be nominated and run for the board and then at a majority of the people there and I hate to say this because I respect everybody wanting to run and work their community but a lot of the stuff I've seen in the legislature are by the people who didn't get elected and what they want to do is now steer the proxies or who you can give your proxy to. It's like they're blaming the board for having proxies for getting the free will of someone who gave them the proxies and they're trying to put processes in place so that it'll help them get elected the next time. Yeah, and so it is, it is the people who are disappointed with the process that usually go to the, and they're the ones who go for term limits because they figure this is how I get on the board because if we give current board members term limits, then next year they can't run again and so that allows me to run for that office. And so I think, so you're right that a lot of the bills that are introduced are introduced by people who were disappointed in their attempts to become a board member. And don't get me started on term limits because every once in a while we see the legislature proposal to have term limits for board members. My answer is always the same, well let's have term limits for legislators. They don't have any term limits. And so what do you do if you have the owners who really want Jane again but because you have the term limit, the only other person who's running because you don't get that much interest in this is the person nobody wants. I guess same what happens is that person gets elected and then a moment later in the same meetings no one makes you motion to remove them as a director. So they get removed and you have a vacancy and it just creates all sorts of humbug. And I have to tell you my experience with managing hundreds of condo associations is it's difficult to get people to want to do this. Right. It is in some of the associations it's really hard to get people to run for the board. Well, we're at our last minute so I'm going to tell everybody we want to thank you for watching Condo Insider. This is a fascinating industry. I've been in it now about 25 years and it never ceases to amaze me the things I see but it's important you know if you're an owner you have a right to serve on the board, right to fight for proxies, right to be elected and then you can accept the fiduciary duty of taking care of business. Thank you for watching Condo Insider. Aloha and see you next week.