92% of people fell out of this business, which is insane. You believe there's four reasons why. You believe the first reason is a lack of training. Yes. Yes. So here's the thing. Again, just one man's opinion here. There is an overemphasis on recruiting. What you should be doing as a new agent is learning the craft of selling insurance. So I say a craft because salesmanship is a skill. And it's not something you just do innately. I'm an admitted introvert.  I was too afraid to call Pizza Hut when I was younger. But the point is, in me mentioning that, is that sales is a skill you can develop no matter what your background is with enough time and effort. And going back to your point, if you're a new agent and you're getting into the process so you can recruit other people, you got to ask yourself, what advantage do you bring a new agent underneath you if you've never sold anything before? And the thing is, and again, this is really, this book is directed to new agents more than anything. This is something many of us who are experienced understand this just as the way it is. But many new people have no clue. And the point is, is that the training element of selling is the most important thing to practice, to get better at. Because ultimately, if you want to build a down line or build an agency, more power to you. But wouldn't it be better if you knew what you were doing first and you could relate based off a personal experience? Yeah.  And I get it a lot. Like, do you think new insurance agents should start out recruiting?  Yeah. Like, I have made no money and you should join me as I make no money. Yeah. Doesn't make any sense. Hey, I've never cut open a single person doing a surgery, but please trust me, I'll show you what to do. That's good. That's good. So to expand on a lack of training, what kind of training do you feel like is important and what kind of training do you talk about in your book? So the training that's most important, it's going to vary by the person. So some people need more face-to-face training. Maybe they'll do best in an office environment where there's a routine meeting where things are repetitive and there's camaraderie. There's a lot of people that fit that. There's some people that all they need is a script, carrier applications. They'll figure it out as they go. So what I try to suggest agents to do is pick from a cacophony of all of that. Do a little bit of this, do a little bit of that. Expose yourself to different training modalities, I guess you could say, for lack of a better word. And what was your other question? What do you cover in your book in regards to that? Yeah. Basically that, you want to be in a position where you can extract as much information as possible. The other thing I forgot to mention is man ride-alongs are really good. If you can get out in the field, if you're brand new and you can just see it happening, I'm telling you. We're all doubting Thomas' to an extent. And I remember my first ride-along, I went with a guy named Andrew Fike in Atlanta and he wrote like $2,500 in premium in a day. He didn't even start to like $12,000 or $1,000 and I was like, dang dude, this dude didn't do anything that difficult. Right. But that was really important to just get me totally dialed in, invested in the process. So your organization should do all of that for you. If they're not providing this, if they're just throwing you to the wolves without any sort of preparation, there's a problem. Now I will add, I think there's a point where there's too much training or better put, the training you'll ultimately get is based off of you being in the field and trying out an idea and then figuring out what happened if it didn't go the way you wanted it to. You cannot go into this with a perfectionist mindset. So there's extremes on both sides, of course, that you just want to make sure you're managing. Absolutely. I love that you say that too because the type of personality that wants to know everything before they do anything is less likely to be successful in our industry. Yeah. No. It's just, it's funny. To me, I put my agents on a two to four, depending on what kind of leads they get, at least at most I should say a month's worth of time before they should be in the field. You don't need to spend weeks even studying the material. Again, I'm not saying that training isn't important. I'm just saying it will become, there's only so much you can do to start. And then when you apply it and then go back, that's where a lot of the learning happens is based off of real world experience. But I want to see agents out there as quickly as possible because that's where the magic happens. That's where you get to see if this business is right for you. That's where you get to see what you've learned, how it actually works or possibly doesn't and what you can do to modify it. It's all about seeing the people and really learn and experience this business. That's right. Yeah. I learned that a long time ago as a new agent. I'm like, okay, if I sit with so many people a week, I'm probably going to get similar results. And I, most agents felt like you're talking about because they just struggled to get in front of people. You know? Right. It's good. So good. Yeah. The second reason you say is no mentorship. What do you mean by no mentorship? Again, it kind of comes into the same conversation we just had with an emphasis, over-emphasis on recruitment out of the gate. Mentorship is kind of, it means different things to different people. Mentorship consists of coaching, it consists of training, it consists of support. And the thing you have to think about insurance, no matter what you're selling, is insurance is like the old Gilded Age, right? So what's the Gilded Age? Well, that's where your father would teach you how to do carpentry, right? And you would work for him or you'd work for somebody else for like five, six, seven years. And then when you were good enough and you knew the trade well, you'd go open up shop yourself. But there's a direct learning from the master, okay? Where you're the neophyte and you know nothing because you really don't when you get, even if you have a sales experience and you get in this, you don't really know much. You know, this business is different. But to learn from somebody who's been down the road, you want to go and who is a shining example of success, that is so important. If you're finding your mentorship again from people who are untested by the travails in the ups and downs of this business, their wisdom is subject because they really haven't earned any wisdom. They're just repeating what's in a book somewhere and that's never good. No, for sure.  I talk a lot about coaching and mentorship. I love that you brought, bring this up because I really believe that coaching, being around people, being around people like you and people that you can learn from and spending that time. That's why I love the whole ride along thing. Getting around people that think on a different level and that maybe know stuff that you don't know is so powerful. It motivates you. It challenges you. It puts stuff up here that you didn't have. I love that. Have you read Ray Dalio's principal's book? I have not. Okay. So I suggest picking that. The reason I'm mentioning that is because the one thing, and Ray Dalio is this multi-billionaire hedge fund owner, right? And he's been successful for a long time, eats the markets. And the one thing he says in his pre-section of the book before he gets, it's like a 600-page book, it's very detailed. But he says, a lot of my success is understanding what I don't know in the sense of, okay, I know I don't know about this, so I'm going to find people who can help fill the gaps there. And it's funny too, it's like, yeah, you're right, you know, it's like you can only do so much. And this is very, I'm a very independent person running my business, but I have gaps of knowledge in certain places and you have to rely on somebody else to build yourself back up, to build the success in your business. And as a new agent, you're not going to know everything and you have to be humbled and understand I got to be coachable if I want to actually make something out of this. And if you don't come in humble, you will end up becoming, we will get humbled at some point. Yeah, that's true. That is true. And thank God, I think, you know, it's a good thing to be slapped around, you know, it teaches us some much-needed humility. I know I've certainly had that done to me. No doubt. No doubt. I think I'm learning, and I'm probably behind you at honestly, is you're one of the most humble people I know. And I am naturally a very confident individual and I have to be freaking slapped around every once in a while. I think we all do. Right. Right. It's good. It's good. Yeah.  I have a trainer that provides me meal plan and work out and I have been slacking off on the last, really the last year and a half and just maintaining and what happens is that I had a heart-to-heart with him and he chewed me out, man. And I sat there taking it, oh, it was rough, but it was right. But I needed to hear that, you know. So it's good to have somebody that will correct you if you're, you know, doing something that's not optimal. And that's what I've done in a little bit of time. Absolutely. Absolutely. Anything on mentorship before I move to the third reason? Yeah. I think that's good. You believe that the third reason is a not having a system of success. Right. I love that. Yeah. I love that you use the word system. I truly believed as well in our business, the most successful people are doing the same thing every week. Right. Boring, same old stuff, really. Yeah. What's your thoughts on having a system of success? Want me to preach on that? Let's do it, bro. I'd love to hear it, man. Yeah. So the thing is, is that you have to think about insurance sales like an assembly line. Right. You have to not make it, make the complex simple. What really matters in being successful in insurance, insurance sales. And it's what you said earlier, Cody, it's seeing the people doing sales presentations with prospects. But not just that, doing it a number of times a week. I like to talk about the magic number 15. I think 15 presentations is where a lot of the magic happens in this business. And if you're hitting less than that, there's so much variability that you're probably not going to see the results you want. So the thing is, well, okay, I can say I can do 15 presentations a week, or I can say I'm going to write six, seven, eight apps a week, whatever the deal is, but how do I actually get there? Right. So my roadmap from proclaiming a goal and actually achieving it, not just on a monthly or even weekly basis, but a daily basis. Okay. So for me, the big thing I'm talking about on my channel with my agents this year is you've got to be process obsessed, not results obsessed, process over results. Why? Because the process, hitting process goals ultimately produces results, right? So you're going to be achieving, adhering to your system of activity and achieving those daily goals adds up, you know, the first step in a thousand miles kind of thing. And if you're not doing that and you're underachieving those goals, what's going to happen? You're not going to hit your goals. Every time I talked to, well, I'll say every about 90% of the time I talked to agents, you know what they're in biggest reasons why they're not successful? It's because they're not doing enough activity. Yeah. They probably are going to say something like, if I just get in front of somebody, I'll sell them. And I believe them, you know? Or the lead sucker that I'm going to not get with objections or I'm not good on the phone or, you know, nobody wants to buy, you know, etc. Yeah. Yeah. But if you start pulling back the layers of the onions and you see, yeah, these leads suck, I only did two appointments. It's like, well, you only did two appointments. That's what really the problem is, you know? So I think having a system to achieve that is important. And that's going to combine depending on your marketing niche and what you're doing. You got to have obviously a niche, a product that you're selling, say final expense. You've got to have a lead system that's proven to work. Lots of options there. I think mentorship comes along with that systemized approach. And putting on paper your plan of action. And as I say in stock trading, you know, plan your trade and trade your plan. You know? But what you put on paper, make sure that you execute on a daily basis and have somebody as a sounding board to make sure to keep you accountable that you're going to do that. Is there any, how do you recommend an agent keep track of their activity? Or what's important to track? I mean, I'm sure you... Yeah. So I keep it simple. I just have a spreadsheet I created with some formulas on calculating basic metrics like, you know, average no show rate, how many appointments it takes over the phone, how many calls it takes to set an appointment, how many doorknocks it takes to set an appointment, how many leads you need to purchase each week, return on investment. So the thing is that we're basically taking the end goal, right? Which is how much sale, how much money you want to make, right? But you've got to granularize it, go all the way down to the basics, which is, you know, big goals start with prospecting calls. So for me, again, the biggest thing for agents to track is their calls. Is there doorknocks? And from there, how many presentations are they getting and are they achieving their daily and weekly goal? You know, weekly is 15, you work five days a week, you need to do three appointments a day. Well, how many doorknocks or calls do I have to make? You know, maybe it's 50, it's maybe it's 10 doorknocks. Your goal is to do that. And if you just understand that, that if you hit those goals and you're tracking your numbers so you know in live time what numbers are actually you need to hit to hit this, then it'll all work itself out. Yeah, exactly. I was just I was just training and coaching an appointment center and an agent and I was challenging the appointment center to encourage them to track dials, people I speak conversations, appointments that appointments it every single week as a as an appointment center. And it's the freaking exact same thing, you know, it's that system of success. Here's the thing about tracking your activity. You'll automatically see a boost in your results. There's it's been time and time again in sports and business. If you keep track of what you do. There's just something that happens that it gives you a lift in your own, even if you do nothing else differing. You just write your goals down, right? It's kind of the same thing. If you people are most successful in life, write their goals down. They carry it with them.  They rehearse them. The same thing. This is the same thing with your systems on paper or online, whatever it is on a spreadsheet. You track it, you keep on top of it. There's just some I don't know what it is, just momentum that builds from it. Hey, if you love the interview, I just got to do it with my good buddy, David Duford on his new book. Then you'll love my interview with Miss Galen Hendricks. Go there right now. Watch it and I'll see you there. When you start thinking about insurance as selling and not as believing, you're never going to sell a thing.


What's the word y'all? Quick promo, I went up to Stephen A Smith's podcast the other day, man, it just came out today. Me and Stephen A Smith chopping it up with my basketball, about media, about my come up, about the future of sports media. It was a great conversation. It'll be like 40 plus minutes long. And I never thought in a million years that I would end up growing my platform enough to even get noticed by a guy like Stephen A Smith. So I would appreciate it if you hit the link in the description to go show some love because I want them, not just Stephen A Smith but the world to realize that these YouTube communities that I'm building or somebody else's building are just as big and just as important as some of the traditional media. And it genuinely ended up being a great conversation and I think you will enjoy it. So link is in the description, shout out to Stephen A. He even invited me to come on to first take. Did you hear that? Can he beat you? First take, potentially. And I'm gonna hold my ground. Oh, I'm gonna hold my ground, like I did in this podcast. So go check it out. A few things you wanna talk about today though in the NBA world. The OKC Thunder is number one. First of all, I wanna say right off the rip. I don't know exactly what the Paul George injury is gonna end up being, but I'm not a doctor or anything like that, but it just looked bad. And I'm praying that it's not anything that's gonna hold them out for the rest of the season or prevent them from going on the run because this is an important season for them. The Kawhi Paul George pairing has been together for four years now and they got a conference findings appearance out of it so far, but that wasn't the goal. The goal is to win a championship. And they had been looking like a good basketball team after that little stretch after the bio market. They went on a nice four to five game win streak. They started putting it together. They were showing advanced stats in the game, I guess I found yesterday where when it was zoo, when it was PG, when it was Kawhi and it might have even been Russell Westbrook when those players on the court together, they've been really damn good over the past five or so games. And now we don't know if Paul George is gonna end up playing another second. I'm not speculated, but I saw a tweet this morning from Shams that was saying that they don't feel great about it. So I'm praying that PG is good because well, we want them to have a chance. I just strictly as that, simply as that. You give it up, Sam. I wanna talk about the OKC Thunder, though. The OKC Thunder last year or last season, they went into a game against the Memphis Grizzlies and they lost that game. Let me look at this again.  That was during the 2021-2022 season, which means that it was just last season. They lost the game by 71 points and there's a video on this channel where I was just having some fun and I went back to watch that entire game front to back. I knew that they lost by 71, but I went back to just see what the hell was happening? What would they talk about on the broadcast when you downed by 56 points? Ended up being a good video in a fun time, but that team just a season ago lost the game by 70 and now they're in the playoffs, y'all. They are in the playoffs. Now, do you wanna say in that game that they lost by 70, shade in and play and the roster has looked different? But it's still, I wanna add this conversation about the jump that they've had this season. As of right now, they're a 500 team. They're half a game away from having be completely safe in the playoffs. Like it makes no sense to me. I mean, it does once we start to actually watch it, but this is the youngest team of basketball. I think I saw my boy three called Tweet that is the second youngest collection of players in the history of basketball. And they are right now in the playing with the potential to be higher. They're eight and two in their last 10 and recently, as long as Shay Gilgios Alexander has played, they have had a chance and they've won a lot of these games. There's been a lot of times in season while I'm watching this team, especially during this recent streak, while I'm watching them and I'm thinking to myself, there is no way that this is the youngest team of basketball. A couple of nights ago, I guess the Phoenix Suns, you know, they're going back and forth book first versus Shay, which was an amazing show in itself. Then we get to the fourth quarter in the OKC Thunder turned off the faucet. There was no more buckets for y'all. And that's not something that a team that is the youngest team of basketball and maybe again, Cohen ain't fact-check it, but I trust you, the second youngest collection of players in NBA history, they shouldn't be able to do that on a regular basis. And they have. And usually when we think about young teams, there are two teams that stand out in least in recent NBA history that have been young and been successful. The first will be in the Memphis Grizzlies who even right now are still one of the youngest teams of basketball. I think they're fifth or something and they're the two seed out West. They have had higher seedings over the last couple of seasons than the Thunder. Traditionally, when you are the youngest team of basketball, one of the youngest teams of basketball, the objective is to lose as many games as possible, go get a top pick, and then in three years, you're no longer the youngest team of basketball, you got this collection of players and boom, we can start to try. OKC said forget all of that. I think we, because of the bubble and because of the time scrunch that we've had, people look at the OKC Thunder and they think about all the draft picks that they have and think that, man, they've been rebuilding forever. They were just in the playoffs. The Lou Dort, the Lou Dort block. I mean, James Harden block Lou Dort. That's what I meant. But that wasn't too long ago. That was just a few seasons ago, ladies and gentlemen. And that was basically the start of the rebuild because Chris Paul got shifted here and boom, boom, boom. So that was the start of the rebuild. They haven't even been towards the bottom of the league for that long. Now, when it was bad, it was bad. But Shay told us early this season that their goal is to win as many games as possible, regardless. I remember before this season started, a lot of people were like, OK, Shay's getting traded this season because, well, he's older than a lot of the core and then they're not going to be good and he's going to be upset and then, boom, he's going to request a trade and he's going to be out to the next team. Sam Press, he loves these first round picks. He can get at least four of them things for Shay Gilles Alexander. He shut that down at the beginning of the season. They shut that down in the beginning of the season. And now here we are with just nine games left in the season. They are there. And we made a video a few weeks ago or a few days ago where we were talking about the playing race being depressing, right? Every team that is in the play-in looks like they're having an underwhelming season. But there's two teams that I said stuck out. The first one was the Indiana Pacers. And because Tyrese Halliburton is injured right now, it seems like they're more likely than not out of the race. But again, a lot of games left in the season. And then the other team I mentioned was the OKC Thunder as being the younger teams that can bring some life. Because in the recent play-in years, we did have the Memphis Grizzly year where they were like, oh my God, is this Grizzly team about to do it? And they defeated the goal to say where it's ended up being in the play-off series. Last year, it was the New Orleans Pelicans. A younger team went through the play-in, get into a play-off series and taken a few games. And this year, it might be the OKC Thunder. And every single year, those teams, the following year, at least started off great. The Pelicans were great before Zion went down. Let's not misunderstand that. They were the one-two seed for about a week's time. As long as he was back, they'd probably be still in that realm. But both of those teams, after having the play-in scenario and making a little bit of noise in the playoffs, went the following season and lit it up. The Grizzlies went from a play-in team to like the two seed just like that. And I think the consensus thing or the thing that ties these teams together is a culture. I mean, the Grizzlies have a lot of things going on right now, but one thing you cannot deny is that they have some culture. And two is a star player at the helm. Jamarrant had his big-time jump. Shake yours, Alexander, having a big-time jump. But even sometimes I'm watching this team, and it still doesn't compute to me how they're a good defensive team considering the circumstances, considering the new young single basketball, considering they still don't have Chad Holmgren, who's supposed to be their rim protector, slash man down low. They've been putting this hot, positive for players where early in the season, there was Michael Scala, and then they traded for Darryl Sarge, and then Jeremiah Robinson, Neuromite, playing league one night to start the next one, and then Jalen Williams, the big, might come in and shoot 40% from three. They've been able to make it happen. And I think another thing that ties these teams together would be, I'm just going to say the Grizzlies and the OKC Thunder, because again, the Pelicans have fallen out. As I think coaching plays a big part in these younger teams competing earlier than we anticipated. Because some of the other teams, other young teams in basketball, I don't believe that their coach is very well. Now I'm saying that these coaches are trashed, because sometimes the roster's that they have to coach with or trashed.  And I could get these young dudes to buy in and not care about themselves. I think that's another thing.  I got to go do what I got to do to showcase to the world that I'm really, I don't like uses, but I'm really him. But good coaching and good culture can give it all of that. I mean, Desmond Vame's the 30th overall pick, but I don't think he came into the locker room like, all right, I need to get mine off. But a lot of these people buy in to the idea that if the team is successful, then ultimately I'm successful. I might get six shots one night. I'm cool. Do we win? Absolutely. And those things legitimately go a long way. So the OKC Thunder have been one of my most watched teams since I think since January, because Jaylen Williams has been my favorite rookie by far. Nobody's even close to him as far as like what I enjoy watching the game of basketball. So I've been watching him a ton. Josh Gideon is looking great. And I think the thing that differentiates them from the other teams is I mentioned this on our podcast of the day, that it feels like once they win the game, that's the green life of everybody on their roster to get an Instagram pick off. If we don't win, then none of y'all posting y'all fits. You know what I'm saying? But once we win, say getting his post up, getting his post up, you know what I'm saying? But if we lose, what am I showcasing my fit for, man? I wore this fire-ass fit just for us to get blown out. No, we'll save it for the next game. And then the next game happens, Shay going to post his fit pick, and then he going to go out there and post a highlighter to from that game. And that's exactly what happened. And yesterday, Lou Dorton, our last possession on Kauai Linen, I don't know what much more I could say. The Dorchal Chamber is still alive and well. Really other things around the league. Carthony Towns is coming back tonight after not playing since the end of November. It's been such a long time, and they kind of need it. I don't know how it's going to look with the gelling process. They only have a half a game difference between being in the play-in and being out of it, so they don't have time to try to figure it out. They just have to go out there and do it. And I think sometimes that is the best case scenario, because you know in your mind that you don't have time to try to figure it out, that you just have to do it. So we'll see how that looks. I'm happy to have him back because Carthony Towns, say what you want about him. But he is electric, especially on the off and side of the ball. Say a thing, Jon Moren is coming back, too. I mean, a lot of people are coming back, which makes for a good old, good old race. The Bulls have a two and a half game difference between them and the 11th seed. And I don't know how the rest of the season is going to go, obviously, because the Bulls have been up and down. They're going on a three game win streak. They're going on a five game loser's streak. But it feels like, again, the Pelicans having Tarris Halliburton being injured, it seems like that's probably their destiny. And then the Wizards, after we were giving them praise for being the best out of the bad, have just tanked it completely. Not by design, they just have not looked good recently. So the Bulls might have a tense spot. And they might have a nine spot, depending on how it goes.  I'm going to be there. I don't care how much it costs. Even though we're, again, just playing to lose in the first round, I'm there. We play against Joel and Bede in the 76 again tonight. Joel and Bede is now one in 12 against the Bulls in his career. We try to make that two in 12, man. Either way, I would love for y'all to show some love in the description. And I'll see y'all soon. Peace.


So, good afternoon all of you and welcome to the course design technology and innovation. This course is a combination of three large sort of areas not even disciplines where we need to see you know how we can come up with innovation using design and technology that is our major focus. So, for today's class we will consider the Jaipur foot as our case study. Second aspect of the Jaipur foot is that it is a prosthesis. The prosthesis are different from ones which are put inside the body. These are which are artificially they are supporting the body from external aspects when there is an amputation or you know some deformity in the legs or in the hands. So, this Jaipur foot is an extremely unique design and according to me one of the best innovation examples in the country. This was started very interesting collaboration between a craftsman called Ram Sisharma who was you know basically building polio calipers for children and he observed a bicycle on the road and said why can't I make a foot as strong as the bicycle tire for these you know kids. So, he started building wooden mock-ups because he is already working in the SMS medical college in Jaipur. He had this orthopedic surgeon Dr. P.K. Seti. So, he would go to the doctor and say I am working on this. So, the doctor would give him all the anatomical details what type of system should be done, what type of gate the leg would have. So, all those details he would provide and both of them together built multiple samples. So, those are the initial you know development which happened. So, basically the Jaipur foot will have three major components the prosthetic foot the most critical one in this design. The knee joint if it is an you know upper amputation above the knee amputation you will have a knee joint and a socket and shank to fit the thigh areas. So, below the knee processes you will just have the foot and the shank which will fit into the leg. In 1969 they started but it was not going forward they were doing some 10 or 20 prostheses for various you know patients who would you know lose their limbs and it did not you know really scale up. So, the scaling up was done by DR Mehta who was an IAS officer who took special interest in the Jaipur foot and he has to he had to pick it up from the hospital and make it into a society and he said I am going to provide this Jaipur foot free of cost and the quality will be phenomenally good and then since then you know this has been a revolution. So, interesting situation is that the doctor and the craftsman team kept the Jaipur foot at a very low volume level not because of Jaipur foot did not have the potential just because of the human tendency of not understanding how you can scale up whereas an IAS you know Indian administrative service you know retired professional would actually talk about scaling right talk about reaching more number of people. So, his whole strategy was how can I make this reach across the world you know across the country to all the you know people who are handicapped. We have dancer from you know Andhra there was a movie called Nacha Mayuri and she actually danced in a program and there was a large movie and that made it very popular everybody got to know about it and the you know a lot of people started coming to Jaipur to get the foot. So, that is how the whole journey started and our interest in the product came up and I visited the place I got a phenomenal insight on how this Jaipur foot was helping the poorest of the poor in the country. The people who get amputed generally are farm laborers truck drivers salt pan workers tell me why would a salt pan worker have an amputation salt pan you know making salt infection from any cuts or wounds in his leg while being on the sand. So, that infection can cause gangrene and then they need to amput his leg a lot of people are there like that. So, you know that is a very good case for us to consider a salt pan worker where else you see you know standard cases of amputation heavy machinery very good heavy machinery generally you have amputed arms legs in heavy machinery little less but it is there and you know truck driving and you know accidents are more common you know for the leg amputation. So, here you can see the person walks in he gets the processes and he goes back the same day walking unbelievable all this is done because of the association the Bhagawan Mahavir, Viklang, Sahitya Samiti so the vision of BMVSS you know is that you know they want to actually give both the physical economical and social rehabilitation the whole organization which built that type of system because the people who come it is very important the people who come are you know extremely poor in fact most of them who come don't even have their breakfast so when they come they give them food for the everlasting credit of DR Mehta that IS officer he said Chakravati did you observe that these people who come don't have one disability they have three disabilities one is amputation the second is they are extremely poor because why they got amputed I believe they were out of work for six to seven months well they were recuperating with the operation or with the leg and they would there all their finances would have dwindled and then the third disability is that they were ill-trained they only had a skill the large number of people who would come 90 percent 95 percent of them so I need to tailor make the design to suit the design of the complete system to see those type of people if I identified only one disability as handicapped then I would do anything in the world let me give a small example over here we had Abdul Kalam who was the very senior scientist at the defense metallurgical research laboratory much much earlier he went to the Jaipur centre Jaipur food centre and he said my god this Jaipur food is very heavy because I am coming from the context of metallurgy and fiber reinforced plastics and polymers and all those things so sorry I have all these technologies in defense metallurgical research laboratory why can't I use it for the benefit of the people very noble thought okay so the project was given to DMRL so DMRL came up with this fabulous carbon fiber shank to be mass manufactured in a factory then made the food design the best possible rubbers and that's it and it's in the showcase of DMRL even after 25 years now I tell you what happens there it's very interesting that it is not just technology or research or value proposition it's about the combined effect of the situation for which the product is being made every small component in the product from the cost from the customization from the delivery from the mechanism from the deployment everything is very important just imagine that processes was costing 30,000 rupees and the Jaipur processes was just 2000 rupees DR Mehta would said I would actually fit with 2000 I will rather fit 15 people rather than give one to one high end process to one guy so I'll say 15 lives rather than saving one life so he didn't pick up the technology so this is the interesting study where I'm trying to say that you should not come from your perspective for any of these type of very interesting studies of innovation you need to very be very focused from the perspective of the end user whom are you you know working for so that's the issue about the social rehabilitation for the disabled so let me show you a video on how the thing is manufactured you all observe very closely of how the whole aspect of the you know aspect of the details it will do about customization about finishing it off one day type of manufacturing what all is happening you know I like to run this video for you so this is the center in Jaipur they come in they sort of you know they are taken in one by one everybody comes in you know to take their cards and very simple process of using a plaster cast to get the exact mapping of the stump then you make a male cast out of the female thing and you have the stump which is your exact replica of your lower knee process and then you use you know the process of plastic forming and he's now adding the leg part to it so you add the PVC to fill plaster in that so that you get a complete leg part so these are those high-end you know polyethylene pipes which are heated when you heat plastic thermoplastic to a temperature they become malleable they become moldable so you know get the size into shape and then you come down to the bottom parts where single single plastic you know small small parts various you know fingers are put together bound by rubber and then you know put into the die and then pushed into the vulcanizing machine which is the oval and here you have you know after the vulcanizing you have your foot piece ready so once the foot piece is ready so you got the old pipe ready and then it's fitted on to a human body and then you know the person then goes home with the leg so this whole process happens in a day because the VMVSS has done all the planning of keeping all the parts ready manpower ready who know how to you know handle these type of large number of people and take the thing you know forward so there are a lot of things happening a lot of tests happened the whole world stood up to this innovation thing that there's something great about this part because this leg the processes was better than the imported processes in multiple ways tell me one thing if this processes was costing two thousand and it is better than the processes from Germany auto walk or the American processes what do you think is the reason any guess very good one sure short thing is it's exactly the human foot but that but that doesn't give you that type of advantage more people can get it that's also a very very good point very good hit on the top top mark is for customization what happens in international process they make sizes small medium large XL and whatever sizes you make when you put on your stump it will be loose it will never fit exactly to the size of your stump so what will happen this is a processes walking so much a moment so the scaling happens on your stump you get source on your stump with that problems get further component they stop using the thing you know and if you get a swollen stump you can't use your processes so it's extremely critical so look at the beauty of the design this design with the limitation and the hard work of bringing all the people to the processes to various locations you bring the people in right it's completely reverse of an international you know supply chain activity so by doing that you are getting something which is highly valuable for a product like a processes if I treat off I would read off mass production to customization got it so you said that it's custom made so is there any part that is pre-made the part that is not attached to the stump yeah very good question it is customized but the customized part only is a stump stump whereas the foot parts are already available whereas the pipes are formed as per the heights of the people so only the customization part is the is the pipe assembly the formed you know stump assembly okay so today it is you know the most widely used process people run people play in performance it's more closer to the natural foot because here when you do a standard processes you can't bend your leg amount of bending you can do in this leg okay so here we have customized fitting of the leg better than the imported processes the biggest advantage comes that you can work in your salt pan again because it's completely sealed look at the bottom it's rubberized silicone rubber so you go with a salt pan leg nothing happens to it the top is highly chemical resistant polyethylene pipe so that's also you know very very good for your use and then you know people can work in agricultural fields paddy fields and there's no issue at all and the best part is that you know you can go barefoot so it culturally matches our requirements of sitting on the floor going to temples you know and multiple aspects which made the cost go down drastically and the production happened at large scale tell me when it's non-profit lot of people donated huge amount organizations donated even our ministry of welfare government came back and said wow you're doing a great job can i give you money so you know that way there was a lot of service to the underprivileged and the handicapped people and the key to the success in all this was meeting a common goal you know those three disabilities i was saying meeting the three disabilities in the best possible way tell me how will i meet the disability of being extremely poor what would i do there it's low cost but he's not spending money so they they thought up till that level they said my god this person is already was in the hospital he's finished all his his show he sold his one acre plot he's got nothing to do so they thought about all that and actually they rehabilitated them by giving them cycle rickshaws this is most probably for the you know people with the hand amputation they work with them also while they manufactured the jaipur foot they would manufacture cycle rickshaws and also give them the setup a separate factory to give them the rickshaws for because once you have mobility you could do a lot of work and you know they can peddle and taking forward giving them job training and women would be you know given sewing machines and some of the men would be given a tea shop kit i was completely sort of you know floored when i saw that while they were going out they were hand over these you know kits which just would cost 2000 bucks a thousand rupees in the hole and you know they would go out empowered to lead the life as it is very traumatic the whole family is dependent on this one breadwinner and you know he's down the whole family you know takes into the next level every organization like the wind i've been working with jaipur for the last 10 years a lot of iat's lot of large institutes large companies start coming in very very heavily they have some of the best gate labs set up at jaipur in the you know center for process and orthopedics people have donated heavily for you know study of various aspects of below the knee and above above the knee processes and then as usual you know we had a lot of philanthropists you know latin tata then then the u.s. secretary of state commerce john braz and a lot of these interesting visitors would come and because of that what happened the visibility increased and more and more technology started getting used


Salam, you're watching NewsClick. Since 1964, the United National Liberation Front has maintained an active insurgency in India's northeast with the stated aim of creating a sovereign socialist Manipur. At the peak of the insurgency, the Manipur People's Army, the UNLF's armed wing, had as many as 2,000 armed and trained militants based in camps in and around the Indo-Myanmar border. As far as the union of India is concerned, the outfit, along with other valley-based insurgent groups, such as the PLA, remained banned. The day after Manipur's current chief minister, N. Biren Singh, feigned resignation in a series of events that political analysts have summarized as pure political theater, NewsClick had the opportunity to sit down in Imphal with former chairman of the UNLF, R. K. Megan, or Sana Yaima, as he's popularly known. Megan is a well-respected figure in the Mehtai community, which is the dominant group in the state. He spoke to us on a range of issues, from the idea of the Mehtai demand for scheduled tribe status to the failures of the right-wing government in power in both the state and the center. This is part of NewsClick's coverage of the conflict in Manipur from the ground, where we were since the 7th of June. As-salam, the day after what we are being told was the playing out of well-scripted political theater in the Manipuri capital, Imphal. We have the opportunity to sit down with Megan, the former chairman of the UNLF, a social activist now and a prominent figure in Mehtai society. We'll be talking about the genesis of the current conflict, of course, and also what he thinks is the political responsibility of the present establishment in the start of this conflict as well as what role the government of N. Biren Singh and the government of India need to play in a political solution. In what he believes is the idea of an integrated and an inclusive Manipur. In that sense, so thank you for talking to NewsClick. Let's begin with the ST demand, which at least from one side is being viewed as the starting point, the reason for all those tens of thousands of people to have gathered in the peace ground at Chorchankur on the 3rd of May in that solidarity rally organized by the Atsum. As a Mehtai yourself, as someone who has been militant politically has had a strong stance on all issues concerning Manipur as well as broader political issues and economic issues, how do you view the ST demand from the Mehtai side? Before I answer to your question, I must tell you that the Mehtis being in about, settling in about just about six, seven percent of the land area, nine percent, but actually the space the Mehtis is about not even five percent. The Mehtis, at one time, they were the major community in the valley, in the whole of Manipur. Now it is, it has weakened, there is one point and the constriction of the species in the small valley is another factor, another grievances of the Mehtis that some section of Mehtis thought that becoming a civil tribe and the constitutional civil tribe list is a solution. I must say that the grievances of the Mehtis being a very small space constricted and finding it difficult to sustain life in the valley is very genuine because our brothers in the civil tribe list, they have enjoyed the status of civil tribe, the quota system and all. So the youngest generations of the Mehtis, they feel that they are being left out. So it is basically a middle class perspective that Mehtis must be in the civil tribe list of the Indian constitution. But from my perspective, I will say their grievances are very genuine, absolutely. So there must be a constitutional solution to the grievances of the Mehtis. But in my perception, to be listed in the civil tribe is not the solution because it is about Mehtis, inclusive Mehtis becoming exclusive. Mehtis have all along been inclusive because they are the people, the community, who took the maximum responsibility in building the land called Manip, just a multi-ethnic mosaic, about 35 ethnic groups coexisting and consolidating it into a sort of state structure. It's not a joke, though very small. So the Mehtis cannot afford to be exclusive, so narrowly divided. So the real solution lies that Mehtis should remain inclusive, talk to other communities and find a common solution that all of the communities can coexist interdependently. And I think there's no room for such a solution in the present Indian constitution. Indian constitution need to be amended so that it can resolve the Manipul situation.  This is the situation. So the sexual people demanding, Mehtis people demanding to be included in the settled tribe list, it has irritated other tribal community, particularly the cookies. They felt that the Mehtis are encroaching upon their space being tribals. So they use this demand for settled tribe to you know, emotionally chance the younger cookies. That is one thing. So as I said, once again I want to repeat that inclusiveness is actually the nature of Mehtis. So it remains so so that all of the communities, all the communities can coexist peacefully, interdependently, and the idea of Manipul can flourish. That's it. Since this situation developed, well, the first one week I was observing the situation. And after that, this went stories and news of the human tragedy coming out from Churasanpur, Mori, Torbong and other places. Then I started going around places meeting the victims of the violence and seeing the condition in the relief camps and interacting with the victims themselves also. Touching stories, I got to know. And then I began to think about the whole thing, why this is happening, which should not have happened at all. In the first place, the root causes of the conflict, rather the violence from the cookie side. I must tell you that almost all the cookie leaders, organizations in the suspension operations, they are known to be and we had quite good relations before when I was chairman of the UNLF. So I was... You used to be based in the same region and interact quite frequently. Very much.  But then I couldn't make out why this is happening. Because in the history of Manipur, cookies, arm cookies, attacking the Maitis in such a scale, has not happened before. It's unthinkable. So the big question is why this time? First, as you may be aware, the migration of cookies from the Marma side into Manipur began in the middle of 18th century, say about 1740-41. Then some sort of systematic import of cookies into Manipur began during the British period. So that cookies, they are, I mean, for helping the British administrations as they are testing sort of force. But those cookies, those generations of cookies, they are different in their outlook, in their conduct and their relationship with Maitis. And we also have accepted them as natives of Manipur. But the problem began when, in the late 90s, in the wake of the Naga Cookie conflict, migration of Burmese cookies or Manmaris cookies into Manipur began in large numbers, illegal migration, I mean. As you know, there is an international border. And anybody crossing on either side of the border must do so with necessary travel documents. But in this border area, there is no such thing. And the cookies on the Manipur side, cookies in groups, I mean, and those in the chin hills of the border, that side, I mean, they are Keith and Keane. That is very right. But even if so, even if they are Keith and Keane, there is an international border, recognized international border, reliant. So once one crosses the border to the other side, he is a foreigner there, isn't he? But this aspect of the border management was never done in the long years. And it is accumulation of that negligence, or rather, whether it is deliberate or not, that is another question. But not doing so, not mending the border as it should have been done, it has contributed to the present conflict because cookies, they claim, they are also indigenous people of Manipur. So by claiming so, their ethnic identity, they now try to express that ethnic identity into territorial identity. The problem begins there. Exclusive ethnic identity trying to assert in a specific territorial area. And if that area happens to overlap with other ethnicities, the conflict is there. So now the Maitreya and Nagas strongly react to that. The Maitreya and Nagas say, only the Maitreya and Nagas are the indigenous people of Manipur. So this is actually the, but since, you know, as per, I suppose, if we go by the government of India, or there are then many sort of ethnicities, tribes that are considered to be of Manipur and living in Manipur and have rights that are determined by the constitution. So maybe we can start off or proceed by first trying to understand what is, in that sense, your idea of Manipur. And how do you look at it? Who are the people, like, is it an inclusive idea, or is it a land that belongs to certain people? How does that fit in with you?  But we have also accepted the earlier cookies as natives of Manipur. And this Manipur is not based on any religious identity. All ethnic groups should coexist and co-develop. That is Manipur. And all must respect one another's distinctive identity. At the same time, they must also promote a larger collective identity so that they can create a new culture of coexistence. That's my idea of Manipur, inclusive very much. But then when others say, for example, cookie, say cookie for cookies, that is very exclusive. And that exclusive ideology or political ideology comes into conflict with inclusive ideology. But even so, we have always tried to coexist with all the communities, ethnic communities, and Manipur. That was why the Maytees, though being in the very small distinct, maybe about 6% or 7% of the total land area of Manipur, they are the people who took the most, you know, distinct share of responsibility in creating the land called Manipur. Of share, you may say, external vision like the manma, the bomb is dead in the second half of, I mean, the second decade of 18th and 19th century. That is how the land Manipur began to be consolidated and developed. But then, Maytees, while taking care of them as a people, they cannot afford to be exclusive because they are the one who must sacrifice the most so that the idea of Manipur does not break up. So when we say the integrative Manipur, that entails the special responsibility of the Maytees. And if the Maytees fail to take this responsibility, then the idea of Manipur disintegrates. It is my concept of Manipur. So not just a territorial concept in that sense, but in all aspects, whether it is social aspects and even spiritual aspects. So in the beginning, at least from a mainland perspective, there was a sense that, or from the coverage at least, that this is a conflict between a group that is A, a dominant group in terms of size and B, also belonging to the same political force that runs the central government and essentially a Hindu group. Because those are the terms in which I suppose these conflicts are commonly understood in an Indian context. And a group of tribals who are a minority and belong to the Christian faith predominantly. Is that a framework that applies to this? No, it doesn't apply because you know, the Maytee people, of course, originally they have their own philosophy of life, rather some people like to call it religion, but to me it's not just a religion, it's a philosophy of life called saname. But in this thing, in the early 18th century, then these preachers from West Bengal came and the king, after expanding the territory of Manipur, three days beyond the Sindhu River, and in the north up to Sipsagura Sam, in west Sampura, beyond Kasar, that was the Manipur, but he embraced Hinduism. So even when he embraced Hinduism, he was a Maytee, like that today also. So many this thing, maybe not just tsunami, Hindus are there among the Maytees, now even Christians are there. Yeah, so the Maytees cannot be identified on religious lines. Religion is actually individuals' right of choice, freedom of faith and belief that no one can say no. So the idea of Manipur, or particularly the Maytees, cannot be based on religious beliefs and faith, that is one. So in this conflict also, Maytees were fighting against the cookies, they are Christians, they are Hindus, they are sanamis. But there may be some effort, some quarters may want to identify it as Hindu Maytees fighting as Christian cookies. That was the story, I mean the other side of the story, being spread around the international media, but not so. So has it been politically created this narrative and if so to what end, what is the sort of purpose of creating this divide in a region which is also in its own way for hundreds of years has had its own dynamics and its own sort of both differences and commonalities like you were mentioning. Well, your question brings up one thing. As I said, cookies have never attacked the Maytees because the older cookies, they are the cookies who even protected the Maytee kings in times of external threats. And the Bhamis cookies who migrated to Manipur recently, in recent history, they do not know Manipur, they do not have any love for Manipur and particularly they don't have any feeling of coexistence with the Maytees and other ethnic groups. This is one thing and they have become arrogant and they have developed a political ideology of creating a cookie land which is I mean not at all acceptable as you know the history of Manipur does not allow it to think on that line. So I mean the idea of having a cookie land separate from Manipur, it is a challenge to the very idea of Manipur. So the Maytees and the Nagas don't accept it, wholesale. The big question is why the cookies have decided to attack the Maytees this time, arm cookies. One feels that there are certain forces once this conflict so that they can take advantage of it. So the question points to the government of India. All along the state government as well, the G.S. says very much and also in this case they are two sides of the same coin. Very much. I mean all along you have seen the divide and rule from the British time being continued distance today also. So one feels that that divide and rule now becoming divide and destroy. So many armed cookies may run into thousands and the number of this thing cookie armed groups in the suspension of operations, there are not so many. In terms of arms and men, there are not so many. So the authorities have claimed that all they are testing those armed cookies in the suspension of operations, they have been listed and the arms have been collected and deposited. That's okay but others armed cookies don't need to sue roaming around freely. Why? This is one question. So these points to the common people's notion that the government is helping the cookies. They have rather told the cookies that this is the right time to take mateys because from all aspects the mateys are in a very very weak position. Take for example the you may say the insurance, insurance armed groups are now at the lowest level of their distance strength and mateys as a community as a people they're very fragmented, fractured, fractured. Everyone has their own idea of what to do and how to do it. Right right right and not a single voice is there. So I think the cookie minds would not have analyzed such things. A deeper analysis has gone into you know creating this situation. So the government are now openly protesting that some rifles are helping the cookies with ammunition, with other logistics and even in the field, fighting fields. Yesterday some mateys died from some rifles bullets. So but some rifles cannot do this on their own except without any specific orders instruction from the higher-ups. But how is it in the interests of India to have this conflict?  I think the idea of free market economics has taken hold. The people like we were seeing three months ago the people have different aspirations now. Those kind of movements that are fought by militants with radical ideology don't seem to be kind of finding so much space to be voiced and then suddenly this happened. How is this in the interests of let's say even if we consider forget about the wider sort of interests of India as a union but just in terms of a government looking at a general election coming up in 2024. Why would it be in anyone's interest to see this as the time to have this? You are very right but then you see there are other factors you know a developing situation. I mean my observation the talks between the government India and the NSNIM you know has been dragging for 25-27 years and no can close in sight. We walk down on two points flag and constitution. Maybe they are trying to find a way out to compromise but even so the developments within the Nagashtra Nagaland state the NNPZ Nagana simple to groups they have decided to bring about a solution within the jurisdiction of the Nagaland state and they have said Nagas from Manipura are not indigenous people of the Nagaland they are domiciles so they have this has created a schism in the Nagar movement also. Now the Nagas of Manipura what stand they will take they will definitely look to the Maitreys someday and this is what is developing now after the Kuki attack on the Maitreys. So we were in Chowchandpur yesterday and we were meeting with some of the current leadership of these organizations that are heading the current movement and they say firstly the demand for separate administration is an old one and secondly that this was not an attack engineered by the Kukis they are too small and too weak to ever think of being in a position to attack the Maitreys and that in fact it is a pogrom a sort of genocide a process of ethnic cleansing what would be your response to that? Well you see just the chronology of the events on May 3 they organized the rally sorry that rally on the very day the vice president India was coming to Manipura why the coincidence normally when the VVIP like the vice president travels to any state no such public gatherings are not allowed I mean it's for security reasons but that day I don't know how it happened the rally was permitted given permission it began around 11 30 I think or 12 and ended up about 3 30 and then the violence began in Chowchandpur spread to Moray by about 4 o'clock 4 30 and then of course from Chowchandpur to Kangvai Torbong they said whole the Kuki people particularly with the young armed Kukis came down about 10 15,000 of them looted all the shops along the road then burned them down burned down houses of about two villages maybe about 400 it all began that way in fact the Maitreys were caught unawares that was the beginning of the pogrom organized attack on the Maitreys by armed Kukis I'm not blaming the entire Kukis just armed Kukis with an agenda and the attack actually was not from Chowchandpur site only in Moray only from the north side also a village called Iko was completely wiped out in Sikul area Kangpobidra district so the Maitreys reacted in a very spontaneous and localized actions where Kuki settlements were there and in fact of course local Maitreys attacked some Kuki houses along the airport road nearby the airport so about three four days it was just a spontaneous reaction of localized reactions Maitreys there was no ethnic cleansing at all but many houses you have seen Chowchandpur and did you see any Maitreys house now standing no you won't see all bulldozed levels and out of 14 15,000 Maitreys in Chowchandpur only about 9,000 have been counted and those laborers workers in the road construction inside areas they have not been traced so far and Moray almost 95 percent of Maitreys houses buildings and business establishments have been raised to the ground so it is actually they say Porgrom and ethnic cleansing and what not in a document called the inevitable split it is actually the opposite story that happened it is they who started ethnic cleansing in Chowchandpur Moray and Maitreys reacted and one thing when Maitreys react and if someone choose Maitreys to be their enemy I tell you Maitreys is the worst enemy really but it takes time for the Maitreys to become an enemy Maitreys are not easily provoked so so anyway I think at this point both sides have sort of also highly developed narratives on this front and there is no meeting ground on on who started it so I guess moving forward from there to where we are now do you see it as a stalemate at present what do you see as the possibilities for a political solution and also in that what role do you see Chief Minister Birin Singh having played because we've also as observers as neutrals as also journalists have seen that some of the rhetoric over the past couple of years you know like you make the distinction between let's say old cookie and those who you say are now illegal migrants coming in those distinctions have or you say you don't blame all of the cookie people only the armed groups for the violence or the conflict having started those distinctions haven't often been made in public speeches in the news in interviews in conversations with the general public by the Chief Minister and so the idea that essentially all cookies are narco terrorists and illegal immigrants and foreigners and have no space from a minority perspective I'm sure that's also a frightening situation to feel in and and of course label those labels are they are hurtful very much yes your rights in that sense actually a responsible person like the Chief Minister I mean I should not make any comments that may hurt the sentiment of a particular community you know you need to be very clear about the idea of money when you don't have a clear vision of the idea of money pool you make irresponsible remarks and that's where when it is politicalized it has very dangerous consequences he being a matey uh whatever he does is interpreted on ethnic lines a matey chief minister that happened of course say for example about eviction of and causes in reserve forests and protected forests it was used as a sentimental tool to waver emotion sentiments among the young cookies because and causes in the hill areas reserve forests and protected forests most of them are cookies necessarily their heart and it is used as political you know the distinct elements tool to incite the young cookies that's right so so in that sense is this what what we are all at this point because the entire population of money pool is now involved in this conflict whether they like it or not is this a culmination of this process of sort of right-wing politics playing out in well anyway that's it because I'll tell you all along the inherent weakness of the Indian political system multi-party political system and particularly when a right-wing party comes to power naturally you know they want to create divisions of society on you know religious lines and this lines that was happening that's happening so I mean the Christians feel that they have been persecuted that was I mean they have a sense of insecurity and in a money in money pool in a situation like in money pool we cannot afford to you know that such divisions in society we need unity we need cohesiveness of course we respect one another's distinctive for cultural identities and of all that that should be the strength of money pool instead of building that unity if you try to disintegrate on narrow sector in lines it breaks up and it creates confusion and that confusion violence erupts that's the whole story so since you have such a deep understanding of both the strengths of both sides from from let's say what maybe what we can call a military or an armed perspective also going back to the previous question are we at a stalemate and and how do you see the way forward well being human we need a peaceful environment we need to think about our future about our young generation for their future so we need this thing a sincere approach from the government India number one and the state government number two from the cookies side also they need to understand the objective reality and they must the older cookies they must tell their kids and kids that those who have migrated legally they must be convinced that they must go back to Myanmar and the government should ensure that those who have entered money for illegally whether they are given a this thing work parameter something something that they are recognized as foreigners they do they should look into this aspect so first essentially a process of recognition has to happen acceptance has to happen that if that happens of course many people have died many have suffered only because of partisan politics ultimately it is the common people who suffers of course yes and we have seen it on the ground the and the poorest of the common people that suffer the most right right so what the mate should do is mate is also should look back step back one step and look around see things and try to bring about you know some sort of as we have done before reach out to those common people as the we've heard often also the story of the big brother and the little in the younger brother right so from that perspective but one thing the government just would ensure that the armed cookies particularly and those not just in the shoe but armed cookies should be reined in and of course in the valley you have seen thousands and thousands of volunteers they're not trained just out of motion they just got all got all of guns weapons from somewhere somewhere and go to the front fire there and sacrifice there that is the kind of you know the feeling and sentiments among the mate is young people and if it is not given the right direction well we will have more chaotic situations coming and once would not try to you know face in the trouble waters and and that will ultimately affect India's unity also in that sense the the the frustrations and and and also fears of the common people have been weaponized in the case and that's what led has led to this unfortunate as it is there doesn't seem to be any short-term sort of solution to this do you do you see I mean this as a as a conflict that will in some way maybe at a lower intensity sort of play out for many years because we saw for example when the naga cookie conflict it took 10 years to kind of come to some level of common trust mutual trust and understanding is this also something and that will take money put in that sense back to a phase of another 10 years of conflict which let's say a younger generation has not actually witnessed before well sincerely and frankly if all the measures that need to be taken have taken up at the period of you know coming to normalcy maybe sort maybe sort and but the sporadic incidents will continue to happen because I have seen that so many hearts have been broken coming to terms with the reality and the young young people coming from for example now in the relief camps they in a state of you know revenge they don't want anything except revenge so consoling them or counseling them will take time and so far I don't see any action being taken in this direction I have interacted with number of them and I think it's and exactly exactly I was just going to say I think I think that sense is is there on both sides that there needs to be some idea of justice before a wider sense of peace is brought about I mean there must be a thorough investigation who initiated or created or instigated this violence that should be brought out so it will I suppose be interesting to see what is judged as a as an impartial party and and that brings us back to the government of India I guess as as the biggest of the big brothers in the in the room to play that role thank you very much sir for taking so much time to speak to news click and for speaking to us so frankly and and and giving us your assessment of things from I think fairly overall well rounded perspective