Okay, how many people have seen Wagedog? I know, I saw a little bit of it. She said it was the only one she ever walked out of. Okay. So any movie she would have. Very good. That's how she said it. This is good. Well, we saw, we saw our circuits movie, which was, spring, we've had some really good, almost like virtual reality movie, in the sense that the technology had just been so attractive that it kind of took over. Which is the way the ego is, it's very seductive and sneaky. This is more, this is more comical, but it also would show you more the underpinnings of trying to use a virtual reality, kind of like in Simone, where Al Pacino, he doesn't, he kind of, it thrusts upon him and he sees a need to come up with a virtual actor, because his actress has walked out, he wants to finish his picture. So he has a personal interest. And this is going to be for a sense of protectionism, of protecting, it's a presidential election. Coming out, so it's going to be using virtual reality to maintain a position, or as a distracted device, but still it shows you how the whole world, the world itself as a projection, as a distracted device, and then movies and virtual reality is basically replicating what's happening in the mind. So it's just showing us its way, it's a wake-up call. But I think in this case you can see the personal motives coming up, and it reminds me a little bit of our movie Argo, where basically that was based on a true story to try to get the hostages out. It was a staged movie that was supposed to be good credentials. This is going much more beyond a staged movie for credentials. This actually has another purpose underneath it, but it's really fun. I think anything that has a hint of virtual reality is just a great reminder to not take anything seriously. So really Dustin Hoffman and Robert De Niro do a good job in a very humorous way of putting together this movie. They're the main actors in the movie. So I think you're going to enjoy it.  They start out virtual and then you have to try to say what's going on underneath. This is more, it starts out in the linear time world and then it's a construct that is being used to fool people.  So there's a lot of parallels. Anything we find is a funny movie that has parallels. Okay, we'll have a good discussion, I'm sure, afterwards. He's like a spin doctor. He tries to spin politics, spin public opinion using the media. He's like the fix, the fixate guy, he's the spin doctor. He's ill, he's sick. Is that another president? I'm going to need a day, at least a day. He's sick, get that out right now. Get him on the phone and tell the Jack about six years. We've got to get that out before the story breaks. So we're not responding to it. He shows his bulletin, he's got some rest. I need a day, I need some money time. I want a day on this world. Do we have subtitles? Do we turn it up a little? It's MKB, so there should be subtitles, but it could be subtitles. We could try subtitles with it. So just to catch everybody up to the dialogues. Some Firefly Girl and some sexual thing with the president. The president's running for re-election. He's in China, they called this guy in to help out with the situation. Because they're afraid that the story will break and that'll cost the president the re-election. So they bring this guy in, he's supposed to be the best. And he's like, tell the president to stay on the ground in China. Oh, he's sick. He's sick. It's all the spin doctors stuff that we've talked about. So do we get everything? Sometimes or not? Okay, that's good. You know why? I'll tell you why. Why is the president in China? Oh, trade relations. It's got nothing to do with the B-3 bomber. There is no B-3 bomber. I just said that. It was no B-3 bomber. Excuse me, Senator. That's 11 days for the re-election. And the president is heading the polls by Bob. It was 17%. Accusations have surfaced, which could have failed the outcome. The white dollars are down. Have you seen Wake the Dog? Years ago. Years ago. That's what we were watching. We just did a sit-up. Do you have a nice visit? Oh, it was just joyful. So joyful. Joy could be back. I'll put you in on the movie so you can jump right in. The president is running for re-election in 11 days. He's in China. He's bringing in Robert De Niro. Because there was a firefight girl that visited the White House and said that this president had sexual misconduct. So we're watching the underpinnings of virtual reality. To convey, to persuade, to convey, to distract away from things. I was saying what the whole world is, virtual reality, to distract away from what's really happening. From what's happening in the mind, the separation. And really to distract away from the light. Because using a lot of dreams and fantasies, all the dreams and fantasies are to distract away from the love and the light. To distract away from be still and know that I'm gone. It's a big show to guard against the light. But this is our metaphor to see, watch it unfold. And we come to Dustin Hoffman pretty soon. The Hollywood movie premiere. Oh, wow. Kind of like Garbo. My God, this is how a Hollywood producer lives. This is very full of my hands. Well, we're getting my veggie shake, Ramon. We're not going to turn over ten minutes to tan the other side. Do I know you? So, wait a second. Wrong. So your family didn't get it? You didn't jump in there and save a thing? No, they didn't save a thing. He's a multi-millionaire. Trump's thinking, I could go for that. That's the role. Make a difference. Then he's appealing to rage. Like, they're appealing to fear. Is it distraction? The whole presidential kind of thing. The whole thing. Most people are saying now, everything is being bought. Money talks. So it's just more of a greed factor of coming in. But that's why we're going into mysticism. More incentive. We wear everything. Okay, let's see what they do. Well, the president doesn't have to say it that way, Connie.  He said that? Connie, what is it exactly you're doing, President? I don't know. Okay. It's about sizes it up. So that whole movie is based on this premise that you can shift and change perceptions and interpretations using the media and using the form and everything. And that seems to be the case. But remember, everything that seems to be everything in this world is not true. So, ultimately, I remember it was the time some years after 9-11 and Jason was talking to me and he said, I don't know if I can talk to you about this. I said, oh yeah, you can talk to me about anything. He was raised in a conspiracy household growing up. And he says, I think maybe 9-11 was...  He said, I know you're going to tell me that it wasn't. And he said, and I think it might have been. And so it's this idea that of searching for causes in the world as if there could have been, whether it's an inside job or not. And it's searching for the truth of which one was an inside job or not. And it's very much like with Gary's book and different questions about whether Arton and Persa actually came to that couch on Maine or Jimmy Twineman's book and whether he actually went to Kosovo and whether there actually is the sound of brotherhood or whether it's fiction or Marla Morgan's book, Mutant Messages Down Under, did she actually go walk about with the evergenies or was it fiction, fact or fiction, but actually everything of the linear cosmos is fiction without exception. So it's not like you can take fiction and you can break fiction up into something that actually happened called truth and something that didn't happen, which is called a lie. So if you take it deep enough, you can see that all of linear time is a lie. It's all of linear time is the denial of the truth. It's the denial of spirit, the denial of love. So that shows you that in the end, you're not looking for a personal interpretation because all personal interpretations of absolutely everything in all of time and space and history are wrong, all minded, erroneous. And so that should bring a relief to the mind too because you can start to see that any judgment of your personality or your identity as a person, good or bad, spiritualized or unspiritualized, whatever you want, those are with the same error, that we don't have an external world that actually exists that you can choose how you want to interpret it. But by perceiving a linear world, that itself is an interpretation that the mind is making, the one mind. So you can start to see the collapse of everything. This is why nothing I see means everything. This is why I do not understand anything I see. This is why you shouldn't struggle with the giving up of judgment because the only awareness you can come to is that you never, ever have been capable of it in the first place. You're not capable of any interpretations. Good, bad, right, wrong, whatever they are. That's good news. In fact, that's the only way to come back to divine innocence is to start to see, actually, wow, I've been mistaken about everything. And the only difficulties that arise is when you think you know something and you think you can say something is a fact in the world. That's all interpretation around the facts. I remember when I had the students back in 1994, 1993, 1994 and everything, and I read this line from the Course, the line from the Course is, no one can be angry at a fact. So there was this big discussion that broke out from that line. No one could be angry at a fact. What is a fact? They went round and round and round until they realized they couldn't, they didn't understand what the teaching was because they didn't understand what a fact was and they couldn't follow through. And in the end they said, well, can you give us an example of a fact if no one could be angry at a fact? I said, God is a fact. They said, oh, can you give us another example? I said, yes, Christ is a fact. But the fact is abstract and no one could be angry at the abstract. Because why? Because the abstract is love and it's real. And everything else doesn't exist. It doesn't have any meaning at all. So it's like, that's what's great about these kind of movies, you start to take it inward in your own mind into divine logic. I say divine logic would say that you really are never upset for the reason that you think you're upset because you see something that's not there, because that's hallucination. There's an interpretation being made that doesn't have anything to do with reality whatsoever. And that is the good news of the Gospel. And if you follow that, you can also see that really you cannot have an opinion. And you can draw all other kinds of wonderful conclusions, too. Isn't it the U.S. Constitution where we hold these rights to be self-effident? You cannot have any rights. Neither. No rights. That's very freeing. Kind of cancels out. Maybe that's why Lisa says stay in the silence today and not go see another story of making something out of nothing or whatever it seems to be. In the end, they're all the same. But that's what makes it a happy dream, seeing that they're all the same. Until that point comes, then the mind has interpretations of what it thinks the happy dream should be. And then it pursues those like a cat chasing its tail in this tale of frustration, chasing something that's not there. It's pretty deep. A elaborate way to come to something so simple. At the end, of course, the killing off the Dustin Hoffman character that exposes the ego pretty broadly. It's a death wish. Basically, it's a murder. It didn't matter what happened or how successfully successful the deal is. It's a lie, but we can't let anybody know about the lie. The lie has to be protected. The lie has to be kept secret, even unto death. And then, thankfully, in the course of Jesus says, well, you can't escape from this world even through dying. He says, the ego will pursue you beyond the grave. That's good that he's put that in there. In case there's any thought of doing it in your next lifetime or, you know, off in the future, that's another ego trait, the idea that you will wake up in the future. Deep in the part of the Course where Jesus says, the ego likes the idea of return to God because then it can make the idea seem difficult. That's amazing. The ego likes the idea of return to God. That's really how sneaky it is, which is good because then it brings it home. You need to start a new religion of the people who believe that it's possible to return to God. That's not it either. It's optimistic as that may sound. It's still, we're going for an experience. So I'm doing that too. And what was that lie at the beginning about? The tail wagging the dog?  It wasn't the tail that wagged the dog. What do you think, Lakita? I don't know, it's depressing. It's depressing. It's just heavy and depressing. I'm like, what do you do? What do you do? I don't know, it's just super depressing. Everything is depressing. What do you even do? What if it's like this desire to go home? What do you do? It's almost like there's not even a way out anymore. Well, the desire is that it's not settling for any kind of concept. You just say, and of course truth will be returned to your awareness by your desire as it was lost by your desire for something else. So that's all, that's the only thing that seems depressing is it's like this exposure of this false wish or this false belief. Even now, like right now, it's like, you know, you're allowing that feeling and those emotions to come up and that question to arise and those thoughts to come, which is, that's why we have the morning meetings. That's why we, that's the purpose behind everything, is to have the allowance for whatever, that frustration, that sadness, that whatever to rise up and move through instead of just being accepted as true. Like he says, what is temptation but the wish to make illusions real. So it's just exposing, it's not hiding the wish, it's not hiding the wish. It's like at the end of Simone, we're fine with fake, just don't lie about it. So that's what we do every single day is we practice not lying about it, not drawing a conclusion, even if there's a feeling of intense sadness. It's a trap, everything is just a trap. It's like there's no hope anymore. Before there was some kind of a hope, now there's just like pure trap everywhere. Just nothing but this left. It just gets worse and worse. I know that that started the feeling that seemed to be there and that's where for me it was like a lot of tears, it was like years of tears seemingly of not even understanding what was underneath the tears or where that feeling came from but somehow intuitively I knew I just had to let it come into awareness. It's just not concluding anything from it. We can take the lines, I thought the Dustin Hoffman character where whatever was happening he would say, that is nothing. I could feel there was a glee under that privacy theme. Wow, you can see that from the Holy Spirit's perspective. No matter what it would be, no matter what the feeling would be, no matter what the appearance would be, even when there's a great temptation where you saw the woman character and hey, she just at one point she went ballistic. She just went ballistic. He went way beyond what she could conceive or hold of and he was like, what? That is nothing. It would be no matter what would happen. He's still alive the way he is. So just when they come in and they walk in the door and they think, now that's the end of the show. That is nothing. So it was the ego always making a turn but the spirit can also play that as nothing. Because there's a sense of truth underneath it. You want to come to a place no matter what comes up, no matter what is intense and dark or whatever it feels or hopelessness or meaninglessness or whatever, that is truthfully what's under it. Or you probably remember like in the Truman Show when Truman finally tries to escape and overcomes this peer of water and as he sets sail and as he's sailing, sailing, sailing and Christoph finally finds him and he just brings and centralizes the storm over him and he hit him again, the viciousness comes up from Christoph.  I brought him into this world, I can take him out. He's the ego control. Desire for vengeance completely exposed.  Not even trying to hide the death wish, it was very evident. And then, you know, and then ultimately when Truman says in case he doesn't see you, good afternoon, good evening, and good night, you know, and they say cease transmission then this look on Christoph's face almost like, cease transmission. Imagine that you reach a point in your mind where you reach a point of stillness, cease projection. Oh my God, cease projection. That's what this is all about.  You know, he was absolutely not going to give up regardless of what was coming. He just started singing a song.  And isn't that what we're into the thing? We'll probably end up having sing-along like we had last night. We're just going, going, going. This is singing to be less talking and more just singing, singing, singing, singing. And remember the glee of that experience of singing together at the top of our lungs, those beautiful songs singing with, singing the Christmas songs, you know, that's like allowing everything to rise up in a song. Nothing used to quote something like that today. The words, or voice was only meant to sing. So I don't, you've said something like that. Yeah, make a joyful noise. Make a joyful noise. The voice was only meant to sing. It was never meant, it was never meant for anything else. And how happy we are singing, you know. It's like, maybe there's something to that. There's a clue there. Words of singing and happiness. Singing mystics. Yeah. Because all of our lives have been boo, you know. There's something on the screen. It's like, ooh.  Have you got that? Keep. If you're so happy, I think. Try that one. It's scary. It's scary. And then we have to have that same spunk. That's nothing. Oh, you've got to keep. Is that all you've got? Is that all you've got? Yeah. Is that the best you can do? You have to have the spunk over that. You know, no matter what it is. So it's not, it turns everything from hopeless into, is that the best you can do? And then that just grows stronger, stronger, stronger into awareness. And so even a part in the Course where Jesus says, make your invulnerability manifest. Ooh. That's a strong call.  But we are onto it that we have to see we can't hide it. That's the key. It's the whole key is having that allowance to let it, like a dark cloud to move through. We don't, when a storm is coming, we don't try to say stop the clouds. Stop the clouds. You know, they have to, they have to move through. Everyone's had the experience when a storm's coming. You just have to let it move through. It takes a lot of faith sometimes. I heard today they had a tornado in northern California. So as we move along with the script, strange weather patterns and strange everything. But we can't really interpret anything. More evident. Yes. I didn't want to lose the feeling, because I had a real reaction just before Nikita said what she said. I felt the same thing. And then what came to me was, why the hell do we do projects?   What are we doing? I don't want to get stuck there, but I can go there. In fact, I was there, and I was going to say, well, so why the hell do we do anything? No, it's the purpose. In other words, if the world was made in hatred, and it was, because I was down, then if there is another purpose that would turn a hateful, spiteful, fearful, vicious dream into another experience of the dream. Because he says, all your time has spent in dreaming. Your nighttime dreams are fantasies. Your daytime dreams are fantasies. So if it's all your time spent in dreaming, and there's only one way to wake up, and that's to experience the dream in a new way with a new purpose, then it must be that we need to strengthen that new purpose. Because if the new purpose was fully in mind, then there would be no difference between a project and a nuclear explosion. Actually, it would be the same in that state of mind. But the whole point is to reach that state of mind. And I was talking a bit about relationships because you were talking about relationship. And I was saying, the spirit has to redirect what the ego made. I'm not saying you should just go, I will never have another relationship again because they're special. Because people say that, how can I write in, how can I avoid special relationships? Avoid. What do you mean avoid? You're swimming in the pool of it. So now you've got to be lifted up higher and higher and maybe eventually out of the pool. But that's the Holy Spirit's job. So really, that is the purpose behind the project. And we all know that when we're just in that happy flow, it doesn't really feel like there's a person doing a project. It's like time drifts by without its touch upon you. There's no even awareness of the passage of time in that experience because that's the new purpose. And that purpose is so strong that it dispels the passage of time, the experience of the passage of time. That's, you know, you're onto something when that happens. But we're not doing projects to produce something. Abraham Maslow was an amazing teacher. He talked about being values. And he talked about self-actualization. And he said, for the one that's self-actualized, there is no difference between means and end. That's bringing the alpha and the omega together. Where it's all present. You're in the joy of the flow. Whereas this was saying the other day, you were just saying observe. It's like I'm just observing. There's nothing else but the observing at work today. There's no need to go anywhere because I am everywhere. That's the same kind of experience. It's a vast experience. But that's why everything has to be seen through what is it for. That one little question. What is it for? There would be no point to making a movie. No point to doing live TV. No point to SEO. No point to rankings. No point to anything. Without a sense that I need to teach and learn. I need to strengthen this in awareness so that I behold a new purpose for the world. Because it was made in hatred. And all the roadways generated from that hatred all rose lead to nowhere. All rose lead to death. Every scenario and situation that comes from that linear cause and effect projection is death itself.  The world breaks everything up into happy memories and sad memories. Happy situations and fearful ones. And it seems to be like a game where you try to hopefully end up with more happy than sad. Like you can win the game with 51%. What kind of God would have anything to do with winning with 51% like an electoral vote? Winner tonight with 50.1% is there is no winners and losers. So to me that's part of that surrender. It was letting go of trying to judge the things which things are more valuable than others and so forth and just getting into that surrender, that flow of the prayer at the beginning of the book. The first edition was page 24, the third edition is 28. I am here only to be truly helpful. That prayer, if you give yourself over to that prayer, I am here only to be truly helpful. I am here to represent him who sent me. I do not have to worry about what to say or what to do for he who sent me will direct me. I am content, there's a great word, I am content to be wherever he wishes knowing he goes there with me. And I will be healed as I let him teach me to heal. So that's what the projects are all about, letting him teach me how to heal. Because there's a crack of openness like I need it. And you wouldn't even ask for it if you weren't aware that there was a need for it. And that's exactly what Helen Shuckman and Bill Thetford did at some point of the dictation from Jesus. He said, well just wait a minute, can we ask one just tiny little question? How did this happen in the first place? And you know, and Jesus said, well, it's a good question. But he said, you can tell by the way that you're feeling that you believe that it did. He wouldn't even agree that it was a fact that it happened. He said, but you can tell by the way that you're feeling that you believe that it did. And that's the ultimate sense where the sadness and the frustration comes in, is from the belief that it did. It's a belief that the hypothetical world has a reality. Hypothetical, what do you mean hypothetical? As if the separation occurred. That's what the near time is. It's an as if. We're dealing with a major as if, even though it's just completely hypothetical. There's no basis, no truth, no reality whatsoever. And in fact I think it's kind of fun. At first you can think of it as maybe like a challenge and then it's like, okay well if that's the case then really it doesn't matter like you kept saying, what are you supposed to do? What are you supposed to do? Whatever you're supposed to do doesn't matter. Whatever you think you have to do doesn't matter. Whatever you think you should do, which is a big one, doesn't even matter. But what is it for? It matters. So if you contemplate a project, if you contemplate doing a function, like for example we were out there earlier and Suzanne was out and Nikita was there, got herself something to eat on the table by herself and then the cat came over and looked, got up on the chair, then got up on the table and Suzanne wasn't around and so Nikita kind of threw a few arms in the air almost playfully like, okay see I love you, I'll play like I'm shooting you and she went kind of like this and then the cat just looked at her and you love me. You're not going to, you don't really want me off this table. You're just moving your arms as if, it was like a theater, academy of warrior over there, and then the cat stayed up there. He appreciated the beautiful flailing arms but he knew he really didn't want him off and then a minute or two later I get up to walk in and I look and there's food. Was it potatoes? There's potatoes on the wood and the cat is eating off the wood on there and I think, I don't think that's what Suzanne talked everything about because there's wood and there's potatoes on it and the cat's up there and this and this and so and there's no resolution in terms of form with the cat and the table and everything like this. I did hear somebody else saying if you feed a cat on the table that cat is going to keep coming up when everybody is eating if you're thinking they all have to love me as much as Nikita. This is a very spiritual community they have to adore me just as much as Nikita does so they're going to, they'll give in. They're going to let me eat out of their plates, out of their bowls, drink out of those things. You can see it, but then the whole scenario ultimately could be used as a point of forgiveness when you come back to what is it for and trusting guidance because I've been in spiritual communities for over two decades and everyone will say that's your guidance or I used to have a friend she would say this is my guidance that's your guidance and I'd say how many Holy Spirits are there and they just won but the Holy Spirit has different guidance for you to do that for me and then everybody started into my Holy Spirit says then you have a group of however, 5, 10, 15 people in my Holy Spirit well my Holy Spirit my Holy Spirit is louder than your Holy Spirit and it's just it's just words there's no depth there's no meaning there's no presence when there's these competing Holy Spirits competing Holy Spirits you know it sounds silly but that's the way it plays out so really it does come down to it's not so much about the behaviors it's not so much about the forms or the shoulds or the aptus or the heftus or the rules or the da-da-da-da it's really about truly is it for and am I willing to go all the way with that question am I willing to take what is it for all the way to the Holy Spirit honestly that's what we're getting at because without that there would seem to be no resolution you say potato I say potato you say tomato I say tomato potato tomato, tomato let's call the whole thing off you can see at the end that's the purpose let's call the whole thing off because who's right and who's wrong when love is gone from awareness that's the question that you should ask yourself it's never about should I do this or not do this or can I get away with this can I feed the cat on the table when Suzanne is gone Suzanne is almost always here and then she goes away to Heaver for what a visitive family you can see that's what happens all the time in families in fairy tales when the cat's away the mice will play but when the cat's not away it's a serious matter keeping an eye out for the cat so there still is this sense of individual or personal freedom that is going on when you're still fishing for freedom it's still something saying what can I do what can I get away with and you see it all the time that's why there's so much what seems to be even though you have laws and you have seeming consequences people will do all kinds of things have you ever seen these hidden camera shows just an amazing array of behavior when people have the thought that no one is watching because that's part of the individual freedom thing so I think this is really deep because we're really coming down when you wake up in the day decide the kind of day you want rules for a decision and if I make no decisions by myself then that is the day that will be given me but there has to be a level of a very deep level of self-honesty with that what kind of day do I want do I want a happy day a joyful day a fun day a floating day yes well it's guaranteed if I make no decisions by myself but as soon as I try to make a decision apart from the whole universe then that's where this crazy illusion of guilt or being trapped or being sad or being fearful or whatever it's like the wiggle room it's like the minds take it on it's a little bit of wiggle room here a lot of times people have a lot of guilt around money and a lot of guilt around the body a lot of guilt around the perception of sickness you know there's something something strange going on with those things and with the whole concept of community many people would say what is your form of government in that community if you throw out the idea of community people will just ask who's governing the community in the world that's seen as a very practical question although I would say it's not really practical at all only practical question is what is it for so it's a single person what is that for what's behind that so it's a couple okay you've got a couple you can be legally married or you can just do a ceremony like you did in Nicholas it doesn't matter what's the purpose of a couple what's the purpose of getting out of bed in the morning these are all really the same question what's the purpose of a community what's the purpose of breathing they're all really the same question we were at the movie today we watched a preview what was the name of the preview movie choice go who big letters choice even in the trailer we're kind of interesting do you really have a choice at all Jesus says well while you believe that you set up a world of opposites then we're going to have to work with that seeming thing that you have that characteristic of choice you know you've invested it in opposites so we're going to have to use it to get you out of that investment so that's good too that's another good thing to know even with projects there's still a choice point underneath but actually it's not really about the projects it's more of a choice point of purpose that's the the whole thing somebody just I saw that picture of sweetie with the little purposes the only choice book see he's here now that's sweetie's purpose he's selling he's selling purposes he's a sales he's a sales kitty can I speak to you sales kitty no or you could say he's a symbol of innocence if your mind is innocent you can fully see him as the symbol of innocent but if you there's any guilt in the mind then sweetie suddenly becomes a reflection a witness for whatever that other thing is it could even be freedom maybe it's something you see it was sweetie eating food off the table you might think now that's a free cat but really ultimately is there such a thing as a free cat you have to ask yourself that too or a free human being all the stuff we've listened to for years oh be glad you live in a free country oh there are unfree countries yes we were told Russia was one of those they're not free we're free free countries unfree countries probably be growing up Russia and they were telling you something else we're free they're not but there are no free countries there's no free persons there's no free kitty cats there's no free lunch so this this is actually important this is very important and it's good that Nikita and Jeff have raised this up and that you actually have allowed it to come up but it does rise up in the mind I go what's the point of anything then that's that's it can you follow that or not I would see the purpose is to heal the mind but it sounds I mean it just seems so huge I mean it's everything it's the whole little thing everything I think well I'm just fucking insane you know I mean yeah that's the thought too but you're letting that thought pass through and all you know remember that line at the end of we're fine with fake dad just don't lie about it so the lying would be to hide and protect the thought or to accept it as true and real except which I'm insane yeah except I am insane as a real thought or conclude well here's all these experiences now I will conclude from that I'm insane and then really that's what we're being asked to do is not to conclude to stay with the practice to stay with that emotion it's just another insane thought I think I'm insane yeah at the brave we didn't have a parade here last year we all went to the parade and lost the parade by the main street they threw candy that's sweet it's trying to tempt us everyone in the whole area much less included in the parade but not us we didn't have living miracles banners some kind of a big truck with all of us dancing singing singing if you walk besides you fire we had a parade in California I know Jeff they put us at the end of the parade and here they come you can hear them getting closer coming here trailing our parade the living miracles myself is ruler I live in the universe myself we don't know it's a strange song they're singing it's never been sung in public in campus before and they're even dancing for that why are they so happy there's a whole gang of them we can't help being Miss Universe hey man he's like our that's it we are ruler of the universe maybe we have our big banner throw out some candy we throw out the business cards we throw out business cards and instruments for peace with little airplanes and they go what what the heck is this 12 steps I'm not upset for the peace I think I feel you can wear crowns two two two edge wear edge wear edge wear we used to have the heads I think simplistic wear she's even got a guy in Australia to design she's not a guy who would design it's all a matter of timing it's all coming in the tunics but even with the tunics you would have to ask what is it for what is it for if there was joy and fun like our food just that one I was looking at A.C.'s face A.C.'s head goes oh god congestive warfare she won't be able to use her containers I mean it's all rare cause we'll all eat it all cause we're one one serving is it's gone I'm with you A.C. we have these little camps the food camps the cat on the table you know it doesn't matter you have to be clear of your purpose cause it would be stark raving madness that's the other option purpose or stark raving madness it would be a circus what about me what about my guidance what was that movie where they lost their sense of smell and taste I could see that happening so that's what it is if you don't let the parade go by it turns into a stationary circus it's just right if you stop it you start to participate if you participate in the parade start to question why he's a clown you're in a circus and that's good though anything that brings you closer to that point because that's the point before when you came in weeks ago when you were all upset you said it was like that thing about the cat about the cat what the cat couldn't do I think you use the word that's the last straw you see that's how it goes anything we make is the last straw in the world then it's almost like that feeling of it's insane it's mad and to think that I can make a choice that will transcend the madness oh well what's the chance of that and so then the mind says well I don't have a very good chance of that so it's going to take a stand like A.C. could say that those packet foods I've been with this community for years I've hung in there with Suzanne for all this time and now she's getting these spicy things and you've got to cook them and extra work and it's supposed to be simple but they're even more work and she could be tempted to say those packets are the last straw or for you the cat could say Suzanne is controlling that cat I love that cat I want that cat to be free and her making rules about that cat and the tables and food that's the less straw I'm happy here and then the mind concludes this isn't it whatever this is it can draw a line in the sand people do that with families somebody says something and go I will never go back to that family again for draw a line I will never speak to this person ever again those those never turn into grievances it's almost like you're protecting something then if you're going to stay true to your word and never never say never never say never because only really the Christ, only the Holy Spirit could use the word never and always and he does in the Course you'll notice Jesus doesn't avoid the never or he doesn't avoid the always but he means it it's like it's coming from an actual state of truth I'm never upset for the reason I think he doesn't mean mostly he means never or when he said at the end before he means always even until the end of time always means always but it has to come from a fact if it comes from a concept then you can never say never was there anything to do with formula? I was saying on the ride we were coming back from the movie and I said I have this feeling like 2016 is going to have a lot of surprises in it because we're just getting to the point where we would need surprises to bring us back into God's will unexpected possibilities I'm totally in love with it it's like you can't open up to everything something really new and beautiful big I think we've talked about this for years too because even Suzanne was saying at one point at the monastery like why we have all these guidelines and then we talk about these things and relationships and assignments and food and all these different things and she was like can't we loosen it up with it and I was like well I think we're growing into that we're heading that way we're heading in that direction she was like we should have tunics just wear tunics it wasn't the same amount of sex why shouldn't anybody be able to do whatever they want to do and I've had people recently ask me in the last month they were like well this poly and more thing they said if it's all an illusion anyway it's like and so but then they almost answered their own question they said I think I think you'd have to be quite spiritually evolved to even be able to to have that some kind of a symbol of allowance for such a thing because why because judgment, comparison jealousy, envy those things just come roaring in and before you know it you've got havoc there's no consistency there's not a stableness you were saying there's more of a stableness that seems to be developing with getting stronger and stronger and then if the stableness gets stronger and stronger and you get more and more stabilized in mind then you could see that you would pretty much welcome anything that really surprised you you go huh I must have had an expectation how can I get surprised if I didn't already have a prior expectation that was violated seemingly not really but violated by what seemed to occur you see how deep it is but also you can see wouldn't you want to have it play out in a way that you can find the solution which is guaranteed by God this wouldn't you want to be funneled right into that solution where you go ah so easy like this tiny little tweak of mind when you finally make it you go oh my God that's it that's it it was so simple there wasn't some kind of huge thing that you had to fight and battle for at all but it was the easiest little tweak in the mind that was always there but it was just hidden it was very disguised like the end of divergence yeah it was such a little tweak so that's kind of exciting to to go at it with that open-mindedness that's the last characteristic open-mindedness I went on a trip one time I think it was when I first met Laura and Laura's husband Ray up in Washington you probably remember and I went up there and I was there and they were like ah this this little kitten appeared and it was the most spunky little playful kitten and we were all in the back and Ray and Laura were just like oh my god they were hushed and how joyful and playful and spunky this kitten was we would be sitting around meditating the kitten would be jumping up on the table his name was peace his name was peace and he was playful and he was delightful and everything and then we left and Suzanne and I flew back down and then we got this phone call I think we were in the airport right by the the baggage claim and they went like I ran over peace and killed it oh no back from the airport she pulled in she ran over with the car she ran over and killed peace it was a lesson it was the slightest expectation that I will have that playful little thing but that's the beauty of anything in this world the lesson it is teaching us is that the playfulness is within us the playfulness is who we are it's not in the object there is no object to playfulness object of innocence object of love and that's a huge lesson that's really the only lesson that there is that there is nothing outside there is no inside and outside it's just all everything it's a huge lesson and when you think about it that's the whole lesson that's what time is for to learn just that and nothing more then you know there should be some kind of excitement like that you're going for the highest highest and only lesson that could ever be learned if you just hold that in mind when you wake up it's like wow here is another day to be about my purpose and to dive deeper into that purpose and to find the purpose that that transcends ego entirely I'm just thinking about that movie every time they they, not every time but the important twists always came because of a song I was just thinking about keep hearing this what is it? I can't remember the quote but that's what the voice is for is to sing they hired Willie to sing a song but when he saw the the thing about the report of the the firefight girl he started right into the the song of guilt and then finally does it out and said I don't think that's appropriate for why we're here well we could apply that with everything what song are we singing throughout the day is it appropriate for why we're here or not you know there it is that's perfect, that's the purpose that's the purpose of the song it was also a point where Willie says I'm going to go out and get drunk and there was no judges go out and get drunk just for the song you know, I'm not suggesting go get drunk but there was just no judgment there was like okay but just wouldn't need the song it talks a little bit of like I don't want to water it down it's just been such an amazing day today experience like this consistency all day just such a purity and I went to see my family and uh it was the same as being here I'm just here just like there was no difference there was just no difference at all I can't explain it but I was just so grateful I sat outside this morning as the song was coming up and I take sure every single one of you in my mind is just the symbols of this incredible love and I felt it and then I was there and it was like I'm playing Monopoly with this 3 year old I've never met and it was just like it was all the same you know and I'm so happy it's like just to just to walk through all of this and just to be able to have this happen and it's so simple you know that's how I feel it's like you know keys and it's just simple and yeah that's all I just it's incredible gratitude for this and how the spirit loves us and just keep the feet on the fire and let's just help her up just feel like this is it's like a day of witnessing to that like oh my god and it's not any bells or whistles it's just you know to witness Jeff read that thing at the beginning of our broadcast today Christmas is the end of sacrifice and Jeff got all choked up with one word like let go of everything and then we just had to stop we just were overwhelmed by that but that's the end of sacrifice let everything go that's not important and that would even be like these ideas of form this or there I could feel that it's like these symbols it's almost like everything's been given and you mean it's the same it doesn't matter if it's somebody on the street or somebody in this house or somebody that's seen you it was mind it was a stream of mind just the security and sameness that's all it keeps coming playing with the cat playing Monopoly with the 3 year old the same feeling being in the studio being at lunch our movie George in the course make this year different it's almost like a wish prayer for the new year Jesus make this year different by making it all the same if that's the desire of your heart then that's the experience you must experience too we all give ourselves the same permission you gave your mind to say to just totally be just be I've heard speechless or no words to come out more thank you everyone thank you it was a great movie it was great


Really you think I found my home, bro. She straight took three days to respond. It's Wednesday. I sent this Sunday Yeah, I might so just focus on myself Shorty make me feel at home. I already said sorry. You're always so dramatic She made me lead the thrills at home. Wait, who are you talking about? I mean, I'm fine with it Fine with what? She really made me lose control. Can you tell me who you're talking about? I'ma let my love I ain't fall Um, I can stop you right there. I hope you don't got feelings for me We're just two lost souls. I don't know about yours, but my soul is not lost What's wrong with you? You're acting weird Okay, but like why me though, see this is the thing girls do when they want you to compliment them and they try to be slick about it But look I ain't going Okay, but like what makes me different though, bro, they all say the same thing.  I don't know why you think it's me though. I don't see it. Yeah I literally don't understand what I did for you to start liking me when it gets dark outside All right, so she doesn't me three question marks. I don't know what y'all want me to say And you I could fight Of course, that's what friends do damn. She just hit me with the friends You help me face my demons. I won't hide Hide So is that why you think you like me? Girls like you are so fine Dog that was the most generic thing you could have said to me in this like what like I'm kind of mad Like I know it's a prank, but I'm kind of mad You don't mind Hope I don't mind what In fine time of your life Of course, I don't mind Wait for real.


Think Tech-A-Yay. Civil engagement lives here. Oha, welcome back to the Cyber Underground. I'm your guest host, Rachelle Mansilungan, and I have some special guests with me. I'm actually covering for Dave and Andrew. They're off-island. So let me introduce you to my guests for today. First, my co-host, CJ. Did you want to introduce yourself? Hi, I'm CJ. I'm a UH West O'ahu student and I study computer electronics and working technology. And I'm Rachelle Classiny. Okay. Jack. Hi, I'm Jack Gardena. I'm also a UH West O'ahu student. I study ISA and I'm here to talk about that today. Okay, great. I'm Ashlyn. I am at KCC Still. I'm an ITS student going to West O'ahu to do creative media. Oh, great. Okay, great to have you guys here. And I know a short notice, but thank you for coming here. Thank you for having us. So our first topic today is social media, which I'm sure all of us have, right? Maybe. Anyone want to talk about what social media is exactly? Today we wanted to talk about social media because everyone has it. Companies have it. Websites, students have it. Teachers already have it and they're starting to use it for communication with their students. And we just wanted to maybe, like, confess what apps we have now, what we use it for, why we use it, and how does it affect us in our daily lives. And discuss the pros and cons about it. Right, so pretty much we all use social media every day. So I'm going to confess I use Instagram every day. Instastory everything. Including a light. What you do in the morning? Rushing your teeth. Correct. But how do you all, what other social media apps do you guys have? I'm an Instagram user as well. I've had Facebook for a while. I try and limit it to those two and I'm proud to say that I don't use it every day. Yeah, I use Facebook, Snapchat. I think I use Daily the most. Snapchat, I use the filters. And then what about like, you guys use like dating apps like Tinder. Swipe left. Or just swipe right. No, luckily I don't have to use that. I already have a good guy with me. Yeah. I'm married, so definitely no Tinder. I know what it is. I got a good guy too. Okay, I'm excited. I know you guys use Facebook, so I try not to use Facebook too much. If I do, it's like everything is like, the whole like security. Yeah. I'm so good at that. Oh, that's pretty good. I feel like I have to share a lot since family is on Facebook. So they're like scrolling, seeing what I'm doing. They're like commenting. That's another thing. People are like, why did you do that and what are you doing there? Facebook, I've been using it since 2004. Wow. I'll just date myself a little bit. They really fell out of favor for me when I introduced the news feed. Correct. It used to be really fun. If you wanted to check up on somebody, you clicked on their profile, but now you're just overwhelmed by information every time you use it. It's crazy. There's a lot of third party that you could tell. Yeah, I agree. The advertisements. You were searching something on the web and all of a sudden you see that up here. Yeah, it's kind of creepy, right? Yes. I'd be looking at Amazon. We have Amazon Echo popping up in Facebook. That's really creepy. Ads for the product you were just looking at? Yes. That's fun. I'm pretty sure I turned off that feature, but I still get that. Yeah. I don't know. So what else? I think that what are you like, some pros and cons? More like the cons, I guess. If someone were to post something about themselves, it's like a more defamation of character, especially if they're professional. What do you guys think about that? I think if they're professional, it would affect them a lot. They have to be careful about what they post about themselves, what they discuss online. I mean, it's a free country, of course, but you still have to be careful. I know I've heard that there's some employees that actually go on, like employers that go on to check. I've heard that. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's interesting. It used to be, your life was only in the looking glass if you were famous. Right. Whereas now everyone has social media, everything you do is logged and monitored depending on what kind of privacy settings you use. And that's a pretty fine line to walk. I mean, if you make a mistake, your friends, at least, are going to know about it potentially. We all see what happens when somebody famous does something wrong. I mean, public response is pretty brutal. Yeah. That's right. Intense. I think, I mean, I don't want to be mean, but a lot of people use it for attention. So the last year, I kind of shied away from everything. Right. And just been. Well, as a, I know because we're all into cyber security, do you guys not try, try not to share too many things or? Lately, I've been, yeah, I've been stopping myself from just like posting out. Right. Daily activities. Right. And just only post like really important events. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with CJ. I've got a lot of family that doesn't live on Island. So I try and restrict it just to sharing photos with them. Right. That's what I do too. You can use a feature on Facebook to view your profile from somebody else's point of view. Right. So always go on there periodically and try and look at it if I were a malicious actor. Right. You know what my profile would look like. Right. That's right. Keep it anonymous. Mm-hmm. I feel like I don't, I don't post anything, but I feel like how I use my social media, like I'll stay logged on, you know, and like all my devices somewhere to steal my stuff. I'm kind of done. So I had actually a family member, they asked me to meet their Facebook account. I tried to make it as private as possible, but then they told me later that their account got hacked.  Yeah.  It's so easy to just leave your Facebook, any social media on your phone. Yes. Because no one really needs to remember their password nowadays if you have like Touch ID, biometrics now with Samsung. Like it's crazy. But then you have, they're really, they don't really watch what they're doing sometimes.  Especially the public Wi-Fi, right? Yeah, that too. Yeah. I don't like to use public Wi-Fi as often. Yeah. And so I really have to. But it's rarely available when everyone can post things. Yes, right. But that's, that's what's good about social media is how they promote businesses and how business is attract more people nowadays. Right. It's through social media. Well, as, because we're like students and also going to be professional students, do you guys use accounts like social media like LinkedIn or? Oh, yeah. Because I know we have a professor that totally is against using that. I have another professor that shared it with us and when he first had his class, like his shortest profile. I mean, how, are you guys really into that at all? I've held out on LinkedIn for a long time. Yes. Just because I was in the military for a while and was it really necessary? Oh, right. But lately as I've been applying for more jobs, I've met several people that have recommended I use it. Yes, same for me. And one of our professors, Dr. Chapman, I believe, he often talks about if you're going into security depending on the field, you may or may not want to use it like you mentioned. I sort of contemplated that, but I think used responsibly. It's just a good networking tool. Networking exactly. That's, a popular thing. Right. Yeah. And that's like how companies find out about their employees, right? And background checks, getting their clearance. Yes. Sometimes, yeah. Sometimes it might even seem weird that you don't have a social media account because you're not open, right? Right. They might find it like, why is this person sharing stuff about himself? Why are they being so secretive? I actually know people that are like that. Yeah. Yeah. Did you guys ever have MySpace or, you know... Oh, those are names. And MySpace is a little different. I know. I think that started out before Facebook, right? Yeah. So MySpace was like more music-sharing. Right. I really... I remember like making my, kind of like doing web design. Yeah. That was my first time. Yeah. We ever shared HTML. That's how I first started HTML. Your friends with Tom? Yeah. Actually, I was friends with Tom. There's a little tidbit here. The end of the month? Yes. Yeah. We had the same taste in music. Oh, that's cute. Yeah. I won't say the... So there's... I actually probably older than you guys, but there's another social media that I used to use before that, Asian Avenue. Oh. Okay. Never heard of that. I've heard of A-Well though. A-Well. Okay. I'm not going to go there. Yeah. I really liked the music aspect. For MySpace. Yeah. Because Spotify wasn't really there before. I didn't really think about using YouTube as a music outlet either. So... And then designing your own website was pretty fun. Yeah. I enjoyed that. I remember spending hours on the computer just looking for for cold. Yes. I did the same. Just to make my background. I did the same. And the music. And you were learning so much and you didn't even realize it. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I didn't realize that anymore. That's all done for you. Yeah. Just because, yeah, they took that feature out, right? I guess for security reasons as well. Yeah.  Yeah. Like they're getting really sensitive about that now. Yeah. So what are some ways that you guys kind of keep your because I know you guys all use the social media. So what are some ways that you would suggest to should they share more information, less of us, we know how to do open source intelligence for people. Sure. Because we've been doing pen testing and all that. Or in classes we've learned tools to use. So, or like the general public, how would you like suggest to them that they shouldn't share? I definitely would say think twice about what you're going to post every time, even if it's just a picture. Yes. Just you and your friends. Right. Like a beer in your hand could mean something else to other people or sharing like your birthday on Facebook. Right. That's a big key aspect of your life people can do. Even just the background and where you're at like they don't have locations. I pretend what locations I'm at. Geolocation too. Yeah. I would say think twice about what you're going to post and then think again. Yeah, I agree with that. I use a lot of Twitter. Okay. I use Twitter. I've never, well, I've tweeted a few times. But really I just use it for information gathering purposes. I mean I read some sports but it is truly amazing what you can pull off of Twitter whether you're mining data or you're just using keyword searches. Right. You know if I'm researching a particular topic or I'm just being nosy about somebody I mean you can spend 10 minutes on Twitter and find out more than you ever would have dreamed. Yes. And I think Twitter is pretty hot right now as far as being in the news because of our current administration and they're using it differently and it's like Twitter's a big one for me. Yes. I remember you doing that in our data piece class right? Right. Yeah. Oh wow. Yes. Data mining. Shout out to Dale. Yeah. How about you actually? I just think like especially when you put like I mean posting for sure but like when you put your interest like some might be kind of like maybe you shouldn't say that right. I mean you are you but you shouldn't say that. Right. Public. I'm kind of shy away from putting where I worked because I've had people where they contact me like oh you worked at So-and-so. I worked there too but I found out later they didn't work there. You know it's like oh that's kind of Oh yes. So there's a lot of Cybersport. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So she did you exactly. Yeah. I think location settings and geolocation in general that is it's a huge one. Yeah. Because if you use it a lot depending on how you use it otherwise that you're attaching yourself 24 hours a day. Yeah. And that can be dangerous for people gathering information about you and you might not want anyone to know that. Right. So it's just that's number one for me. Right. Because in Snapchat make you do that now it makes you Oh yeah. I remember when that came out. Yeah. It would map out all your friends on the US or you know the Hawaii Island. No. You can see where your friend Tom is at 3 p.m. he's at Starbucks or something or in Kapolei. Yeah. It's really funny. I never knew that. Yeah. Yeah. It was like you had to I don't know swipe down first or something. Yeah. Even not in Hawaii like just anywhere in the world like let's say you follow your favorites celebrity you could see them or something. Somebody did see it. I don't know. That reminds me you know recently the Strava fitness app. Oh yeah. People were using it to track their fitness movements and it would geolocation was involved and people were actually looking at those heat maps and figuring out classified military locations. Yes. Whoa. David and you just talked about the last show that was at. Wow. That's crazy. My gosh. That's just enough and that's just a perfect example and you got to be careful what you're putting out there. Watch your posts. Exactly. But definitely it's still fun to like keep in touch with your friends and family especially if they're like abroad. Right. Let's say I don't know maybe a daughter has a mom abroad in the Philippines or something and that's the only way they have they contact each other since you know you know calling each other kind of costs and you know let's hold that thought we're going to take a break guys. We'll be right back. Aloha I'm Richard Concepcion the host of Hispanic Hawaii. You can watch my show every other Tuesday at 2 p.m. We will bring you entertainment educational and also we'll tell you what is happening right here within our community. Think Tech Hawaii. Aloha. Aloha. My name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of Hawaii's Law Across the Sea. Law Across the Sea comes on every other Monday at 11 a.m. Please join us. I like to bring in guests that talk about all types of things that come across the sea to Hawaii. Not just law. Love. People. Ideas. History. Please join us for Law Across the Sea. Aloha. Hi guys. Welcome back to the Cyber Underground. I'm your guest host Rachelle Mansilungan and I have my co-hosts CJ and my two guests Jack and Ashlyn. Earlier we were talking about social media apps the pros and cons and how you could be used for social engineering and open source intelligence. Since you spoke about that let's go into something else that we all pretty much familiar with the National Cyber League which is the spring season is coming up so let's just talk a little bit about that. I know three of us were in the same group last semester for our class so you want to just talk about what the NCL means. Yeah for those people that don't know what National Cyber League is it's like a captured a flag competition where you solve puzzles ranging from easy level to hard level and the categories can range from open source intelligence reconnaissance web application exploitation asset cracking all of the black hat things you can think of right and for this season we have pre-season regular season and post-season so pre-season is where everyone competes individually and at the end depending on how many points you get you are put into it's either gold silver or bronze and then in the regular season you compete with other people in the same bracket at the end there's the team competition which is post-season so you can have a team up to like two to five people and you're competing against the nation so not just in Hawaii you're also competing in the mainland and all the other students up there even professionals can play okay is it kind of strict like the CCDC that you have to be full-time part-time student or it doesn't oh no collegiate cyber defense competition is totally different from NCL in NCL you can be a student you can be a professional as long as you have a coach okay yeah the coach can be a student or a professional in the field and that's the way that's how you can get into the competition and I know that registration is going to start soon right now I believe oh yeah so for those students and professors that want to compete registration is going to be in February February 26 to March 25 you have that full-time to register but there's a fee right but there's a fee yes it's $25 to compete and then for post-season it's $10 per teammate right yeah did you guys want to talk about your experiences within so I know that we were all on the same team we weren't the winning team but you know it's okay because we still individually did well and as a group I think we work well together I agree so did you share your experience with that what is your favorite parts of the NCL so well of course it was team competition yeah individuals it's pretty stressful because a lot of the work is done by yourself yes it's a lot of work on your own hours forget about all your other classes you're taking five classes and you got to focus on this oh my god you're not even going to do the rest of your homework you could probably fall behind class after one week of SCL just a warning it's pretty intense yeah my favorite part was teams obviously because we get to collaborate and meeting other students who had a different view on the categories that were presented right and so people had their specialties that they were good at and other things oh yes I know Jack had a she and I are good at I guess something more like open source open source and wire short it you know I wasn't familiar with NCL before I came to Hawaii and started going to school but it's probably been the most enjoyable thing I've done outside of class since I became a student it's just such a good opportunity to take what you're learning in the classroom and apply it and everybody has a little bit of the competitive nature in them and once the competition starts you end up researching the different categories more and you just learn a ton this one this past competition we had in the fall I've probably spent between the pre-season regular season and post-season I would say 70 to 100 hours I know total on top of my class yes you know as a student you don't always get that chance to use those skills and apply them and while CTFs don't exactly mirror everything you're going to find in the workforce just the chance to use tools extensively and read up on them you can walk into an interview after that and speak confidently about all those things and I think it's just such an asset I just want to point out that the University of Hawaii West Oahu won the competition two years ago in place second last year right so we're doing pretty well we are doing pretty well try and carry the torch this year and it's the hats Hawaii events to come yeah that's right oh yeah I'm just kidding and actually CJ was actually were you part of the winning team no no but I knew them personally and they were like my really good friends and my officers and they represented Hawaii and UH West Oahu very well oh yeah and I don't think we've ever had like a team like that in Hawaii being known as like a cyber team that's pretty big I would say I think it's it's great for the state it's great for the school obviously I think that CTS are something that have a lot of potential if we got those kind of things pushed to the lower levels of education I think kids would really latch on to it yes you talk about developing skills early that's a great opportunity and I think HPU right now is developing a cyber stadium or an e-gaming stadium watch for your ideas about that yes and yeah you know I enjoy the stuff a lot and I know I would like it even more as a kid and 15 years old let's say you're studying password cracking scanning enumeration all these important subject matter areas that's how we improve things so gotta get the word out yes we do because I know that hats we provide like CTF training and I know we had a lot of members that were saying they're kind of intimidated because we all started from the bottom we don't know what we're doing right but then like if you keep doing these competitions or those trainings I feel like you grow more and you learn more absolutely so on top of NCL they also have a gym it used to be hosted in Netlab another virtual sandbox a place where you can practice for the competition and the connection was like really bad before no one really liked the interface but now the gym looks exactly like NCL the competition did you use the gym throughout the last year so did I yeah I did and I would never have known to use the tools they hinted inside the gym what kind of tools you could use right yeah I really like all the thing the category that I really hate sorry NCL is log analysis because log analysis that's where you take big pieces of data needle and a haystack big pieces and you're trying to find this one piece of information and it costs like what 10 to 50 points sometimes even 100 points and it's yeah like Jackson it's looking for a needle and a haystack yes so it takes I'd say logs are a category where you feel really tired from everything else and you just want to take a break you need a lot of time to do log analysis for me if you're not good at filtering out the logs you don't have any idea how to do that right or if you don't but if you're really good you can use like regular expressions Python just to filter those words the key words and to provide some more context on that the harder challenges are intense right that last day I can recall all of us just basically banging our heads against the wall trying to figure them out but what NCL does that's kind of neat is you know they provide such a large breadth of information and material that you're able to accomplish I would say 75% of it you know fairly easily and quickly and it's that last 25 or 10% that's really difficult and that's where you're pushing yourself that's where you're trying to find the needle in a haystack and that's where you're really making your money as far as your skills go just to find that stuff you may not ever have dealt with it before and that's when you go on our you know Google and you know learn how to do it and it tends to stick with you pretty well yeah I do have to say though it's not a free for all so if you enter wrong answers you're definitely going to have a lower score yeah I mean we were trying to keep up our accuracy right yeah accuracy it's so important what was it the wire shark one yeah where you had to look for a smart home that that wakes up all the device I think because of NCL I got better wire shark from you and Jack whatever you guys taught me it was so good like the very last day all the teams just started spamming the NCL interface with answers and you could they even showed a graph in their Slack channel about the accuracy of all the teams it's like this and then yeah because we get pretty much desperate right yeah we were really desperate and oh my god so last year uh UHS Walu was like first place for like for like one minute two minutes and then when you refresh the page right then you got second oof right so that's pretty tough yeah so I mean we're going to close to it but then like as a I know you guys are you guys going to enter this coming this spring oh yes absolutely Ash and I think you should do it I know you haven't done it oh she's going to do it yes you definitely have to do it yeah I mean any like last two bits you guys want to see about social media or NCL definitely encourage your students to play NCL it's a very good learning tool yep yeah I echo that 100% the programs KCC West Oahu NCL together you're going to walk away with it a lot better prepared to get a job than you would be otherwise oh yes anything about social media you want to add I know you said you want to share I think again yeah pretty much especially the young people out there they want to share everything their addresses to just please be careful yes it's scary or you know what just don't have social media turn off location sign turn off yes it's okay okay thanks for having us yes and thank you so much guys for having for coming on the show I know it was a short notice but I'm so glad to have all three of you here to help me support and hopefully Dave again I know he mentioned that he wanted to have us once a month but I don't know where are you Dave where are you Dave love to work with you guys alright well hopefully we did a good job and we made you guys proud it was pretty fun did you guys I know this is your second time I know Andrew and Dave pretty well and I had the pleasure of being on with Andrew before so hope you're well Andrew okay guys so this is the cyber underground until next time Aloha