All right, here we go Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that means it's time for another episode of Warhammer weekly Joining me as always is my own cursed You know first-born I guess staff born. It's Tom. What's up, buddy? Hello friends Also joining us this week all of my canary here. They are look at them the whole flight is ready to go That's right. No, it's the re-rolling ones crew. It's Mark Brent and Jack the whole crew is back So good to have all of you guys back on and we are going to be talking the daughters of Kane tonight They've got a new battle tone. You might have heard about it. We're gonna break it down. There it is right there and Yeah, it's gonna be exciting. This is gonna be a show filled with 80-20 positivity Tune in next week for the flip of that so at any rate The this is gonna be a good show But of course first the news Tom take it away. What do we got? So we have a rumor engine. We do it's up on the screen right now So what do y'all think it is? It is an exclusive Thanksgiving Day model. There you go. I only get it in a games workshop on Thanksgiving Maybe something from Maw Tribes blood vulture Definitely, I think it is a OS. Yeah. Yeah, definitely OS. I'm with that I mean, I think this is just another cursed city thing. I think everything they're showing right now is just cursed city stuff That's a good guess everything because they're like we look we got way ahead of ourselves I said this last week I'll say it again They were like we got way ahead of ourselves last year our eyes for this rumor engine situation We're too big for our release schedule. We got to rain this back in Maybe it's one of the zombies then because it looks like they're gonna have lots of like I don't know a kutramon Boards just a lot of stuff sticking out of their heads and their backs. Yeah, so maybe he's got like a bird too I feel like this is a bit and less of a component of a model like it's not something They're gonna send down to attack somebody and it also has looks like has no eyes So I'm not sure what that means I don't know either It's weird because it seems really small right Maybe it's like maybe the sort of malformed because it's doesn't look super sharply cast So maybe that means it's like a little terrain piece Maybe it may be in that there's a little terrain thing somewhere I think I think that it's actually a bird on one of the zombie dryads Sure, yeah, yeah, that like Dryads have little animals you can attach to them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know the zombies Like we saw like these zombies with like the roots and stuff like that sticking out of them I think that this guy is on the bait like on one of the top ranges. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah We've solved it but who would win in that fight between the the the dryad owl or Now the zombie islas bird that owl sells for like six dollars in eBay I got a whole sack. Yeah, I know I love that great. It's amazing. I didn't know that I bought a lot of dried kits in my day So that's it's good to know good.  All right Now just a dryad in owls though Let's make a $40 dry. Oh my waste of money Between that and like your set of revised duels, I think you're probably fine. That's true. All right, so Any rate? Yeah, that's the rumor engine. It's a burb It's a burb What else? we have Stuff The new broken realm story obviously dropped this week and there were scathing in it I But they were performing for someone else a shadowy figure did did any of you all read the story? I did Yeah, Brent, what do you think it is? What's the take? Who's the shadow lord? as We've called him a couple different names on the channel. I like Jack's the best though Bella quah Oh Be lacquer be lacquer. Yes. Yeah, we well-known demon the first demon friends be lacquer I'm gonna have to default to more every time It was the throne of shadow is what was apparently there Yeah, I had some people hit me up and ask if I thought it was Malarian Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sure Yeah, I mean, could it be sure could it be bellicor. Yes. He's also a shadow guy Like like anything in the mortal realms. Nobody gets to be the only person who has that thing Right now if you're like the greatest swordsman, there's like four of you vying for who actually is if you're like the greatest Most powerful spellcaster. It's like yeah, that's that's that club over there of the main my cat Castors or Croak, yeah, it's a full club over there full of chickens and frogs and stuff And you know if so if you're if you're the king of shadows the lord of the shadows, it's like yeah, okay There's a lot of you which one are you? Jack and I were just joking about this like 30 minutes ago because he's like I'm building shadow warriors And I was like, I think they need a rename. Are they really shadow warriors anymore? Yeah, things it's a great or shadowy Then just like And worry Kind of you know light Rangers, right? Yeah, there you go. Exactly. Yes Yes terrain Rangers like these are units you will put into rain 18 inches away from an enemy probably And that's that's where they'll sit for the rest of the game. They should be like cover wardens Yes, I support renaming shadow warriors cover warrants. You nailed it. Tom. You've done it To the shadow warriors are like the infantry where the came in night shadow stalkers. They're like the green braze See, they're both in the army Kill levels. Yeah. Yeah They're definitely the shadow warriors that are definitely the like 11 Bravo of Of the shadow army. Yes In the dread spears of the red shirts they just there they'd be Get shot Um The yeah, it was cool story. It was fun.   Like listen JJ Abrams, okay, we're telling a narrative here not this isn't puzzle box time So you better start answering questions sometime soon. Okay, well destroy all that.  Yeah Puzzles, it's a puzzle wrapped in a in an enigma with the riddle Like take to get to center the riddle in the middle Apparently quite a few given the number of stories We're getting that have told me absolutely nothing about what's going on except that that yes In fact that thing I already knew was happening. Gordrack is marching and taking a big army with him. So confirmed Sometimes orcs. That's what we know. Mm-hmm. Yes Yep Yeah, it's good to see in Skaven in there in any way shape or form I don't think I've completely flipped on my expectations from our preview show and I just don't think we're gonna get anything about Skaven for The rest of of AOS 2.0 not in a broken realms Maybe if they show up in a broken realms book at all, it'll they'll get the they'll get the like idolaters treatment It'll be like some half-finished thing They're like isn't good unless we later have an FAQ that improves it If you take a bunch of Skaven night runners then It's just dot dot dot. They don't write the rest of the sentence. It's just nobody has that. Mm-hmm. Yeah I mean, I saw it on the table. Yeah, I played an all-Asian night runner heavy army against Tom He did I watched him bounce off the dragon as I got ate by a bunch of ogres that happened. It's true This was in person Jack I just want to point that out I do have like 11,000 points of Skaven So it's not hard for me to put anything on the table True it's true Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited for the narrative. I'm excited what they're doing and I Agree with you Vince. I think the Skaven call that you had is his misplaced I had said that I think that orcs would probably like iron jaws or some type of orcs would be in the box We'll see if that happens for one of the narrative ends, but We'll see we'll see. All right. What's next? I'm preview speaking of the future preview show this weekend for AOS that's super exciting All AOS all right, it's an all AOS preview show Here's what we're gonna do Jack starting with yourself, and then I will nominate additional people You are gonna make a call about one thing one thing only that we will definitely 100% without a doubt see in the preview show this weekend Jack kick us off What is your first thing? We will see this weekend in the preview show a New chamber for a storm cast all right that is Jack is saying a new chamber for storm cast a bold call out of nowhere I like it mark. What is your call the one thing? We will see this weekend I think we're gonna see in the integration of one faction into another either. It's gonna be vampires into something else or maybe You know Skaven brought into seraphon so maybe vampires and fec becoming one faction I have a news. I have another news story related to that mark. So you may be on to something Yeah, it is actually I'm thinking of of like The way that they're evolving this thing. I'm thinking we will see factions get put together Yeah, that's that's just my guess all right Brent your turn your one thing we will see we will see a Vampire all right We will see All right, Tom your one thing we will see this weekend Disappointment. Oh That was the one thing I wouldn't bet on I'm pretty excited about this. I mean here's the deal Luminet they're gonna drop in all of their glory.  So it's nothing what you're I understand that I understand that I the favorite part about it is you were trying to prove me wrong And then you only ended up dooming yourself such as the such is the fatal flaw of hubris, Tom Tom will you like the vampire? Would you like the at least one I mean we'll see we'll see like if it's a if it's a really good blood night Of course, I will you know like if it's if they do a really good job with it Like I just I don't know how how much I'm in for Castlevania the army like maybe maybe I'm in I don't know I have to see it like I have to get a real good feel for it, but I just I don't know like I just That does seem like what it's gonna look like Right to present right alternate point of view. I am very excited about Castlevania the army That sounds like exactly what I want and Quick aside, you know, I saw like obviously I got to share the Sigvault that I painted this weekend up as a lot of other people Did they were all super good? I saw the oh, thank you I saw the the I don't remember who was my politics for reading their name But they did a really cool conversion of the of Sigvault into like a vampire lord And my only thought was why did you go to all that trouble to like switch his head and make him look Bald and ugly when he already looks like Alucard like right out the gate You just should have like taken the sword and had it kind of detached and floating in the air a little bit somehow and Boom Alucard like it's just that easy That might have been Pete the Wargamer. I don't think I saw it. Yeah But yes, that was a beautiful as a cool conversion. I dug it. It was a cool conversion, but it is Alucard Yeah, it's just he's already Alucard you so there you go For my one prediction of what we are going to see this week I I think we're going to get a good look at the grave lords army in toto It's not an exciting call, but it's there I think we'll get a good sweep of it not every fig, but I think we'll get a good video and we'll see some of the figs I agree and I like to that and just being frank like I think we'll see the full We'll see the full picture of broken realms Teclas along with all of the new All of the new elves like all the new units that we're gonna see Yep And I think related to that Well, we'll probably get a teaser video with a nice swath of the vampires We're obviously gonna see the OCR phone reapers New warband like that. We've seen the silhouette of we know that that's coming and we're probably more likely to see Another likes like swath like a range of the cursed city So like those are that's all the kind of the low-hanging fruit of this week. Yeah Yeah, I would I would love to see new elves. I'm I'm a big elf fan and Yeah, I just don't buy that that Malarian would send around agents of chaos to do his bidding But you know who knows what his story is Yeah Yeah, it's interesting because if you'll remember like way long time ago We actually had Malarian as a chaos deity in a AOS novel Yeah Like that he was working like he was a chaos affected or something so like we may actually like who knows you're right mark Who knows what Malarian story is? I wanted chaos elves for a long time and like true like oh, yeah, that's it Yeah, the corn logo on the hat of the blood elf on the right right the front of the battle tone from 1982 What's disappointing it about all the stuff you mentioned Tom? It sounds all cool to me Because Tom is a giant wet blanket. That's why I know I just like The elves are not gonna be exciting to me They're just not like that because I've already accepted what they are Right and what they are is not something that like perks my interest. It just doesn't and so I mean let me tell you I'm gonna be super excited about Her city everything her city sure all of it just all of it. Yeah So I look forward to that. I mean I would have I would have opened it tonight for my birthday Had it been here Right, but it's gonna be um, but it's gonna be a while. That's exactly right Another birthday. Yeah, it's gonna be a year. No, they're small but the That's going somewhere with this. I'm excited like I am excited I don't want everybody to think I'm just poo-pooing everything but Like it's it's just gonna be elves and it's fine It's gonna be a bunch of kangaroos and foxes and other stuff from anime and it's fine so So that's what we're gonna see this weekend and Vince and I will probably do a show Well, we're gonna do a we're gonna do a show my friend I'm gonna tell you right now We're gonna do a show and I'm gonna tell you right now This is gonna be one for the ages because that show that reveal show is happening during Vinnie Kahn 2021 so Sam and Miniac and Ninja are all gonna be here We're gonna be painting away over the weekend and I was talking all of them and they're gonna sit in so there's just gonna be like Five of us here with you Tom will be in the room. I'll just shouting about stuff Yelling at you. So that's that's gonna be that reveal show. I accept. Okay. There you go You should yeah, I would love to be in on that one I would I would definitely imbibe before I arrived I mean the day drinking may be starting a little Just a peanut gallery that show Mm-hmm. I'll have to be in the chat though. All right What's next Tom? Uh We also have no new aos through March 3rd. Yes, we got that confirmed because the full the full like weak stock list Came out and we know that March 3rd is kill team. So there's no There's no aos obviously next week because it's bi-weekly release and then the next one is not aos either It's the full kill team release. Uh, they are re-releasing the three kill team Uh, train sets if you liked those like the the munitorium blah blah blah second munitorium and like they're cool Stop, so it's good. Yeah, the first one is amazing. Yeah next three weeks are adeptus titanicus dice Yeah, it's it's it's basically you're not wrong. It's basically that Uh And then I see I see ninjans here in the chat John you better be going to bed soon. I'm just telling you right now, buddy. You gotta be gotta be up early Uh, all right. So at any rate, uh He's got a long drive ahead of him. He's got a long drive Uh I'm watching you and then we and then we had uh, I'm just moving on. Yeah, go for it We're moving forward. Uh new curn off the hero for cursed city. There she is We saw the beauty of her and she's fantastic No hoops No hoops like here's the deal. I was not a fan of curn offy previously I wasn't like I was like there's something about I was not in but but This model This model's great. She's great Does it say this is a curn offy? Yes it does It reminds me of you guys played um remintide one and two. No, there's like a Archer else and she kind of reminds me of her a little bit without the horn, but I'm excited to see what she can do And like like I this I equate this with uh warhammer underworlds as a well where I see stuff And only thing I really care about is how they play in aos So I'm curious if you will also have her own aos war scroll along with all the stuff for the warhammer world's Uh, I got to assume right? I mean it would be insane to not make aos war scrolls for all this stuff Like at least for a while It should be when when cursed city comes out They should they should be like here's your downloadable rules for running the heroes as an underworlds warband or something like that Here's your downloadable rules for running this stuff in war cry and here's your downloadable rules for aos Yeah, right like in the only reason that why I would even be worried about that is the uh, jacob bugman sun model Yeah, he didn't get it. I hope he didn't get any rules right that way Yeah, uh, but yeah, but they've always done it for the for the collect the cross product synergy stuff Yeah, skates wild hand has it. Yeah. Yeah, I think eventually he'll get his own rules But I'm just like like the underworld just like the underworlds warbands have them And stuff like that like when they do the cross game stuff they almost always have both so We know how invaluable uh, the the silver tower characters are today the night quester and uh, The the priestess of shadows or mist weaver, right? Yeah, that's an animal shard I hear that but let me remind you uh, like I have 120 no you gave me eight more 128 128 scuttlings up on that shelf so that said um Let's not forget that that gaunt summoner was in that box He was too dope. They had to like take him out of production I mean like he like he had some legs on him Like let's not let's not forget about our our what eight months of like 20 pink hordes for 200 point 220 points on a wizard Yeah, it was a real great time That model on a bill in vortex is how I beat the cunning wreck. There you go Uh Your war priest that also came out in silver tower is no it's like it got deprecated It's legends now right and that came out years ago. So yeah one boo to that two She had a lot of comments in the chat about how you know boo Satter feet and cool mohawks. Okay one boo you Okay, that's what I have to say to that uh Satter feet and centaurs and stuff like that is cool I don't want the whole army to just be that but I love that being an element within it, right? Like whenever I see crenothea I want them to be part of the forest and so yes, I want a sweet Taking a weird animal animal elves go somewhere. You're right. I like imagination and stuff to Mohawks are super classic. It's a throwback to the original 80s early 90s war dancers Uh, that's why they have that it's not like that got cut out a whole cloth Your elders know your history and uh and and learn son. Okay now Uh, that's what I'd say about that that being said this chick's awesome And I like that she doesn't have hooves as well And then she only has like the horns or like that because I want to see the whole panopoli Peno the whole range Of different stuff represented here, right? Um, I because like if I see when I see the crenothea I want to see some cool like a new take on wanderer type elves Right there just elves that have those kind of you know They're like the horn stuff, which I don't think she actually has horns. I assume those are like a head dress She's wearing that's what it looks like, right? I want to see stuff like that Right, uh, I hope they're growing right out of her head. It could be. Yeah, I take it to the next level I mean they did they did what elves great for 30 years.  There's about 80 million kick starters. I'll direct you to that just have regular forest elves Okay, like we can't keep reheating lord of the rings.  I'm not you're going wherever all the time soon You're not going to but my but my point is Is that there is a like there is a Like for those that play in local stores, right? Like gw stores They're they're locked out of their their stores if they bring third party. I said I want to see some of those elves Not just not all of it Yeah, right And that's my point is that like third party producers are not always an option And in fact for often for a bit for events for some people They're not an option at all. I often say strong word The number of people printing third party minis is growing by the day not decreasing I understand that I understand that so I mean not to not to throw water in your arguments or anything the You know weird weird elves is is good this weird hammer Where hammer has been weird for a long time.  Let's bring the let's bring the weird out That's right. That's right. We want to see I want to see the full range I want everybody to have things that excite them. I want cool Neat classic wood elves that appeal to people who love that classic aesthetic And I also want to see sweet satyr centaur ladies or cent or whatever that really excite rob the honest wargamer for reasons We bet's not explore So I just want to see Okay Anyway, uh, so yeah, she's cool. That's what we're saying here There you go. I want to know what people think about this, by the way This is this is something that this should be a good thing for a survey. Somebody's been asking. What's the next survey? I don't know what the next survey is Um, but this would be a good one to survey on uh to do a follow up aesthetic survey on like Things people would want to see explored, right and kind of who would like it's gonna be. What's the next survey? Oh good. Good one. He got me on that Like how weird is let's get weird. How weird is let's get weird. Yeah Cause for me it's how weird I know for you like you're you're also a big slant, right? True. Let's Let's get I know let's like a realm of chaos weird like I want to see a d 100 table for mutations and and I want to see bird feet that don't do anything but give you like a nasty aesthetic Like literally is no benefit of the game. Just you have bird feet They were uh, Andy and rem were going through the uh, the classic beastmen from the 80s yesterday Where when they had like the ostrich beastmen and the camel beastmen and the turtle beastmen and just like all This and they're they're figs that were made and they are crazy I don't know anything about this. Oh, it's got a fly face Fly face, but he's a champion of slanage. You can tell by the garter belt. Mm-hmm. No, yeah Uh, many Panera was so yes, so where are the classic elves for those of us who want tradition They're called dawn riders wardens sentinels Those three are basically just redone versions of eight that have you know previous edition regular high elves That's where the lumenf has one of classical elves like people don't like they're not class. They're bald We're not getting into this again moving on next news item next i'm shutting this down next um Uh, the other news item that I have uh, that's not on the list I had a source reach out to me from inside the industry and suggest that we may see the discontinuation of fec endless spells Okay, I have no idea what the implications of that are But the fec endless spells look like they're done And the in the battle tome is on like constraint or whatever like it's on a limited availability Interesting could that mean that if they get Folded in with grave lords. Does that mean the models? For then less spells would be discontinued or could it just be then put out in a box that now says soul blight grave lords endless spells Do I get to or yeah the models i'm not done with that's what I want to know It's a great question print and that one I don't have an answer to yeah To be fair, we don't in eighth edition warhammer fantasy battle stuff. So who knows you got me there Um But but this source is suggesting that they are that those endless spells are not going to be available for much longer And so that just raises all kinds of questions as to where these things fit and this could actually be a really interesting Sign of the times right because like we had talked about having like a bunch of like The the bloodlines were very obvious remember we talked about this How like the bloodlines where like of having the dragons and having The boncartein like the different mortars and how that mapped But what wasn't clear when we had that conversation was What the third weird one would be and we were suggesting that we might be getting an entirely new line of stuff Sure Maybe that third one is fleshier courts Yeah, it's just a question of like the not for not for ought to vampire. Sure. Yes I mean, obviously for a very long time. They were just part of that conception, right? Right, right?  It's like this weird accordion Uh force that keeps doing that So like Could I see them putting fec into the soul blight grave lords? Sure The question would be how Right because there's different ways that could that could happen. They could all be rolled under one set of rules Right, and then you just have different things going on Or you could do it war clan style where you know, it's almost like this is just three battle tomes Right, but three battle tomes for the price of one like here's the iron jaws flip Here's the bone split is nothing to do with what you just read flip Right, right, and then here's a thing that is just all of that together sort of Right. Yeah, I just like it's tough Maybe is the answer Um, I this caught me really by surprise when this was shared with me because this is not what I anticipated at all um It really concerns me for smash bad Uh, well, let me tell you why it doesn't concern me all in all Like smash bad is awesome and uh, but we also Like one would hope if they roll them together If if they do it war clan style then I wouldn't be worried at all because those armies preserve their individual character Right, you you play bone split is now out of war clans. It still feels like bone splits It doesn't feel worried down at all. It has its own sub functions. It has its own artifacts It has its own personality and it feels very different than what you play when you play iron jaws, right? Like those things are night and day different, right? And so if that's the case smash bad will be fine Like he'll still loud now if they rewrite a bunch of scrolls and that all comes in then Yeah, sure smash bad's gonna get smashed probably right it depending on how hard they go on the rewrites or Or he could get even better That's a possibility Smashback could get even smashier Uh points So you never know go to six instead of d six You could actually get a You could actually get a real model. That's yes. See there. We are tom. No, you're now you're wearing my headset Like if they put that in there, maybe we get a new vargulf in cursed city, right? This feels like the place where they could stick a new vargulf. You only need like one of them Well, and what and the one thing that we learned is that like it's definitely soul blight that like the the bargain was struck with Now what does that mean? Right like what it like and so like if the vargulf suddenly had a home here and they were in soul blight like that races all kinds of questions Yeah, it's interesting. You mentioned this folding now that I understand what you were talking about from earlier Folding I was thinking of was uh more like how what is the relationship with uh lumen at the cities of sigmar The new stormcast faction if if with those other order factions, um, that's what I was more Thinking but yeah, I see what you're talking about now for sure. Yeah I'm not the fastest train, but I'm pulling into that to stop now It's interesting. I I'm excited. Let me just say I'm excited for For what it has although it does raise flags for me Because that means that we if this is true and let's say that those unlist belts do get discontinued That means we will have had a kit on the market for two years Is it dropped in february of 2019? So along with silver tower up Sure, so let's say that that kit gets discontinued and the challenge of usheran gets cast into the bin Never to be used again and there was much rejoicing for anyone who has to play against fec And not deal with that bullcrap. So yeah, bin it Uh, I'm good with it. I wish I could throw more stuff like that in the garbage, frankly, tom Uh, it's really nicely next to the wild woods. Exactly. Yes. I those would be right next on my list just like Into the ash bin of history. I mean, it's an endless spell You know, like if it were had gone, it's not the same as like an army going away or whatever, you know, like, okay Well, I think there there are people who still get upset that you know stuff that they bought Like years ago has been discontinued for someone. Do you just bought this two years ago and now it's no longer I mean and I always point out you can use an open play No, you can still play with the models that you bought, but you just can't match play tournament stuff Yeah I'm not naming names about the people who complain about models that they never painted or used being discontinued, but yeah, it's But I think there will be I mean it feels like You know where I pointed out the excess of your war priests You know, I think it's two three years old and now you can only use it in Non-match play legends games and stuff like like when I was like, I painted it up You know, I like to go into tournaments and now it's just not He's he's yours. You're sold buying character now I'm okay with it as long as there's a new set of elements, which is what they should make like which is fine Uh, we'll see this is all rumor and conjecture at this point. So It does remind me of like Mark works for Wizards of the coast where magic players. This is just what they accept Two years I hear that I do Okay, I spent a lot of money on magic in the last year, but here's the deal There's a difference. There's a difference between Both the like so yes play on playability. There's still this collectability value piece, right? That's one one thing and so it's a lot easier for me to just Like shuffle that stuff into into a binder on a shelf and know that in five ten years I can sell it This chalice is never going to get bought by anyone ever again because it has no collectability That's one vortex people there on ebay spending hundreds of dollars for their bell one vortex I'm aware. I love my bail in but and that leads me to a point too though And this is the frustrating. Well, that's just The bail wind is because it's still playable piece, but it's not in print So that's the other half of it. And so it's like, you know, it's It's the mocks of aos. No, um, but the reality is is that So the other half of this conversation though is that with models people spend lots of time And love and energy lavishing, you know attention on their models And so like the having put hours Into some things that you're going to put on a shelf and never touch again Like is disappointing And you're just hold on. I gotta shut this down. Wait a minute You're being ridiculous right now. So what you're telling me just to clarify Okay, is that people spent hours Your words on their chalice of usher on a thing that people wash with sepia and then shove Blood for the blood god into the middle of that. I have never I have never in my life I've played a lot of fec ornaments armies of tournaments.  I use skeleton horde on my channel. Thank you. I appreciate that Okay, but here's the deal if I did model a person matter It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it's this endless spell or if it's a bail wind or if it's a phoenix Okay, the reality is is that they are models that people have invested time, love and energy into Thank you mark I agree with mark I do I I made the hat like I I have a what else I had You know 40 metal ward answers and I was ready to go like I know the pain that I mean that that army had 14 War scrolls cut the first year I remember another another 10 later. Yep. Um, like And then sylvaneth had had the tree can cut all I'm saying like I totally get it and it's it's it's real The pain is real. Um Like my collection is though like because I painted it has a value to me that matters to me and that is Um, whether or not we we get to play with those rules. Um, whether or not we're heard as good anymore Um, I'm I still have the models and I love them. So yeah, here's what I'm saying I'm not advocating For models being banned other than sylvaneth woods and I'm saying I was just talking to the two-year cycle, right? Like jack and vote Jack and vote the two-year cycle, you know of magic and said they do it And what my pushback is is that like you can't do that in this type of hop? Obviously, obviously. Yes Okay, let me make my position.   No, obviously not any no, of course That's not what I was saying. That was all just in good humor. Let's be cool Uh, yes, we'll get to the doc chat. Don't worry. Yes. I agree Patrick Fisher. Thank you. Um But no, what I'm saying is that at the same time we do we can't make that like some kind of sacrosanct Rule if something needs to go away or be changed. It should be extremely rare Right if it ever happens. It should be extremely rare that it does Okay, and I'm saying if there was going to be anything that had a shorter lifespan The one thing I would be okay with amongst all of that would be something like endless spells or terrain pieces the ancillary stuff Right, sure as opposed to the army itself. That's all that that's that's my honest feeling and And while I've been flip it with the collectability of things I have to be honest like Boxes of white lions are a hundred dollars on ebay right now Like that that is a that is a real number if you have a real high elf army now Like you have lots of money sitting on your shelf Like a block box of dragon prints is or is a hundred a hundred Lion chariots or 130 new unbox like those are real numbers For kits if you still have them So there is some value to old things within this hobby, but But then again endless spells are not those things So Well, I mean that's actually not true because you know as as we just said valent. So that's not universally true Yeah, surprise is still there. So at any rate, uh, yes, please don't think take me being flippant saying you should throw your models People should throw the models in the trash or because they're not painted. I was just making a fun joke So everybody relax. Remember, this is supposed to be a fun show and we're talking about talk. Let's get Down yeah, I guess uh, that's fine. Okay. And yes, I love my models All right, can we get to the underworlds thing tom? Can we talk about the underworlds thing? It's all my news I didn't see it. Oh, well anyways, there he is. Okay. We got another underworlds reveal another another savage or guy It's not on there. No, it's not there My apologies My apologies. I did my job. Okay new underworlds guy, uh, and we revealed the silhouette of the obr dude and axman Uh Looks good. Uh, I just gotta grab this guy. I think this dude looks cool with his like a big Cape and his like bones driven through his skin Uh, I love it. These dudes are looking cool, man The uh, Brent, what are you thinking about the bone splitters underworlds warband here? Um, I would I will probably buy this That's about it, but I have some bone splitters on a shelf. So sort of like we had um the army that we've used on the channel that was like Really nicely painted bone splitters and Iron jaws. Yeah, um, the bone splitters are at my house now. So I could add some some unpainted bone splitters to to that shelf I'm very excited because I think because people are thinking like the third Model in this warband or maybe there's a fourth. I don't know. Um, that one of them is it's gonna be a shaman It's gonna be a war doc. It's gonna be some plastic version That can You can, you know Replace a wargog. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like you can replace one of the currently fine cast Hero choices with the underworld surgeon. Yeah, that'll be cool to see Like that hunter Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh, I just want to point out man. He says this one still has no toenails So apparently they just all underworlds orcs no toenails Nails fingernails they got finging nails their fienders Have nails, but uh, they got fiender nails, but no no toenails.  He's wearing like uh flintstones thing But he's not like man, if you zoom in on that the dude, it's literally like Uh piece of skin that's been like wrapped around and kind of like cinched With a cord on his hip Good enough. Yeah, he's going to a toga party As they do He's like from mushrooms, right? He doesn't have that's how they procreate. It's not like he has anything to grow up It's like Nothing underneath there. He's he was once a little snotling. That's that's what you think That's your opinion, man Uh, is is there a a current model that has a pelt like that?  It is a basically a lizard man pelt. Yeah Shush So i'm guessing he uh, maybe the cerebellus came out. Yes. Hi everybody. Cool. That's just thing So I will actually say I think it actually looks like a star drake Um, so if you look on the the larger Scales in the middle Yeah, they they use that pattern the star drake has but so does a couple other models where they use the larger single ridge And then it gets smaller They do that with whatever models and so it actually looks like the spine of a star drake as weird as that statement is Going back to where I said they're like their fungus still so they probably shouldn't have nipples But the location of his nipple is very Raises questions I mean Like the money is like, okay. I mean, but when you lift your arms like your nipples go that way I don't know man, maybe a little bit this show has gone to weird places You invited us I I expect no less All right So yeah, this dude's uh, this dude's cool And uh, I can't wait till we see the obr, dude Because uh, even that silhouette was rock and roll like sometimes they show their silhouettes And just like with the vampire lady and I was excited just from the silhouette I'm excited for the obr guy just from the silhouette because it got this giant axe Uh, so yes, I think I'm sure I'm gonna prime the obr or band excellent excellent Uh, all right So now That's all our news Okay, uh, so that brings us to some pick of the week. Let's go around the horn jack What would you like to share with everybody? Uh, I'm sure a few people especially if you're on twitter, Rocco. You boy. He's been a uh, just a member of the war hammer Uh, it's in our community online and he is uh, amazing guy. I got to become friends with him over this Adventure we're doing and he just started his own youtube channel and the first three videos He's put out here are geared toward newer players, which is they're a very useful tool Yeah, I wish I saw a video like this when I first got no aos It helps you with like a list building and then he uh, it's like his whole thing He's not I'm gonna say shtick, but his uh, the thing he does is like he's like because he taught me how to play tabletop simulator He's a great teacher and so he took that and put it into his channel So he teaches you how to like what the uh, the terms mean how to build the list How to be competitive with the list and uh, yeah, Rocco. You boy on youtube now as well and on twitter Just go follow him. He's a great guy. Uh, john and uh, yeah, he's just uh exemplary member of the community And i'm glad to let it like I talked to him on the phone He's a friend of mine now and that's what this whole aos thing has been great Like before I got an aos. I wasn't friends with mark And this game has brought us together and like I used to watch tom and ventz Just like everybody else who's watching it and now they're like peers and I still have to like I stopped fanboying out because tom's texting you about lists and stuff And so like it's such a cool community. We have in this another member Starting his own content and so I'll follow him and subscribe to him. He's a great guy. Yeah, totally agree. Rocco's awesome He uh, he sat in on a soulbound game with us and we had a great time. He also played in Uh, he was also one of the players in muppets unleashed Which is a joke that came from all of you when uh, you challenged me to write a muppets unleashed Uh rpg So there you go Oh boy that joke Uh, it had legs Uh, I wrote a I wrote a nice little tight system for for muppets unleashed and we played it. It was a playable game. There you go Uh, Brent, what do you want to share with everybody? Oh, go ahead tom. What are you gonna say? Did you use ngs? No, I I wrote a game called muppets unleashed. I wrote a new game Uh, all right Brent, what do you got? Uh, I posted today, but aos coach, uh, also reviewed the Uh head and nights of slash and daughters of cane battle tomes And I really appreciated that he focused on the changes from the last book because I'm not as familiar With the previous daughters of cane book. So even though I've been reading the uh new one it was nice to know Some things I didn't know kind of more, you know, like on the allegiance ability Or artifact side spells and stuff that had changed rather than just like Here are the points that are different, but he included that too. So absolutely. Yeah, fantastic Uh, oh, yeah, that that is another quick piece of news. I'll mention it because it did come out It's not affecting everybody But gw announced today that they have some shipping delays due to uh warehouse closing in Tennessee because of the weather So they said there'll be some a couple days delay or maybe longer Whatever on some of the product that's shipping out here, especially in the states because the Tennessee warehouse is closed So if you had new orders in and you're in the states, you could see a delay because of the extreme weather. So Um, yeah, we didn't mention that the news probably is newsworthy. Absolutely. Um, But that's all right More time to get what you've got painted and uh still and and If you ordered slanesh, it's more time to shiver with anticep Mark, what's your thing? Hey, uh, so I have to one one is the uh the divisiveness in the community about whether or not people should paint pants on sigbold But that that's might be maybe a debate for another time. Yeah It's a hot topic with the hottest topic on my socials this weekend. It is a bizarre hot topic, isn't it? So my my pick of the week actually is a local commission painter uh in a local desk here in Seattle Um, Noah Smith who's the paint smithy on instagram. Uh, I'll drop his uh instagram link in the chat um Yeah, uh, Noah is uh Great. He he when I first met him. He has a uh, vrtonian army That's all on the flescheter courts base sizes and he runs Vrtonia as flescheter courts in aos and it is amazing. It's a beautiful army Uh, super fun player and and a really good painter. So but I would drop a pick for him Very nice. I love it. Tom. He painted. Yeah, he painted all my lumina Yeah, that's that guy very nice. Uh, Tom, what about you? Yeah, I'm actually going to spruke uh our guests Uh video that they put out. Um jack did a uh a short 15 minute. Um, so our uh, not sylvanath, uh slanesh and Doc, I mean, but are you wrong? Review, I mean sylvanath. I mean, we'll talk about that next week. Yeah Yeah I might delete this part. So slanesh Sylvanath 3.0. Um, no, I uh, and it was just a great video and it was just a good, uh encapsulation of the changes and Moving from old to new and uh, yeah So check it out. Which army I know a lot more about Because slanesh is like two-thirds of the video. I'm like, oh, Dr. Zakane, there's some stuff that happened in there, too We'll talk about that tonight Dr. Zakane, there's some stuff that happened there, too Done, uh Yeah, so let's talk about that Uh, my pick is going to be a painting one, but it is still relevant Uh, the cult of paint uh, henry and andy and the like they put out a recent video about painting slanesh And it was I really like uh, it's henry doing the painting in this video and I really like his method He does one of the new chaos warriors, uh one of the um Like one of the new dynamic ones from the start collecting box and he gives you a nice simple slanesh scheme And uh, even though chaos warriors aren't in the new slanesh tome as a heed night I feel we might be discussing them a little bit next week and they may be a very relevant pick for you in your army Uh, so but at any rate being it it's it's still a real darn good video with a cool color scheme And he just kind of walks through a very simple fast, but really good-looking method for doing slanesh So check it out. Uh, it's great There you go So and henry and andy are awesome. So, uh, gentlemen, shall we turn to some hobby time all right, so uh hobby time Uh, jack, what are you been working on man? What's on your desk? Uh, what I've been working on Truthfully, I've been painting up this cool stein that a friend of mine 3d printed me nice The warrior dnd stein um, and it's so nice painting something that's not tiny You don't have to sweat. I'm like, oh wow, I need to do that more often. But uh, so, um I uh, I've started editing which I edited the uh, the last battle report in the last uh video tom mentioned the review And I'm like, I made the mistake of uh, I didn't know you're supposed to save as often as you And so I was 99 done and then the program crashed. So if you're Eventually resolve it's a great program, but make sure you save constantly So I've been doing that and um, I kind of uh, reviewing the Daughters of Cain book for this show Um, kind of got me into well, how can I get into Daughters of Cain slowly? And uh, the great gateway drug that is cities of sigmar The reason why I have a 2,000 point k army in my closet is called tender thigh Why no, I need this no, I need this no, I need this and I'm slowly doing that with the uh, The uh, city of sigmar city that can hit woman for being Daughters of Cain And so I was looking at the book. I went out and uh bought these today and I'm building them right now awesome hot pick Hot pick. All right Brent what's been on your desk buddy? What you been working on? You primed anything? ghouls ghouls. Oh, um, no, it's too cold. That's no um ghouls ghouls Lots of ghouls building ghouls painting ghouls so lots of ghouls in various stages of Some of them almost at the end of the of of the painting relay, you know, just just down to some Highlighting of the skin some ghouls still being assembled Um, I pretty much have now worked on ghouls in like every part of my house now too because for christmas. I finally got one of those cutting boards that everybody has right so I can take it in the living room put it in the uh kitchen I've made a lot of ghouls and uh also on the video side. I started making thumbnails for videos too Previously mark did for truly everything for us Thank you for that. Uh, but now jack and I are learning how computers work and uh Are helping out too. Nice. It's a it's a truly a team effort. I love it Uh mark with all this new free time that you've undoubtedly got now. Thanks to your your your co, uh Uh host helping out. What have you been hobbying on? World of Warcraft No, I quit. Uh, so, um, yes, it has been world shadow lands is amazing.  I I have I I did the tour. I'm done I have moved on to painting uh liberators from jack actually I'm now uh jackson ventured servant because he's given me some miniatures He's like, oh, hey, I've got some extras in my collection. You can take these serif on off my hands I'll just just paint these guys for me and next thing. I know I've got 22 models in I just did a seahawks theme uh derthu for uh, that's up on the rerolling ones instagram actually you can have a look at that now Um, so that's that's what I've been doing seahawks themed Stormcast all right on the desk right now. Nice. So is that for some living city? Is that the is that there? Is that yet another? It's a more gateway drug man. It's like, well, I don't like Oh, I have a side note by the way This is just we're talking about Sylvaneth. So Sylvaneth won, uh, uh, they won one gt Last year or it was a 2019 when the book came out They won one grand tournament and everybody's talking about how much they're just not good The person they beat in that grand tournament was me That's amazing That was actually knows this this shows you the level I like the game and I'm decent at it I'm pretty competitive, but I don't care enough to look at the rules before we play like what's the mission All right, this is gonna be fun And I thought places of arcane power was just places of power and those are weight Those are two different battle And so I'm like, yeah, I'm ready to go. He's like, you sure? I'm yeah.  That's hilarious by the way jack hilarious, uh Uh, you know stuff Yeah, like I I'm still neck deep in in cards trying to clear my hobby area So the beast it should it it should be done by this week ish Um, and so then I'll finally get back to like, you know, normal life and stuff So I'll get there right on it'll be fine Uh, yeah, I've had a busy hobby week lurking working on a lot of different things Posted up my vampire it over the weekend that I finished up Uh getting ready for vinycons. I've prepped everything up for that But I'm also just working on this guy speaking of of third party folks. This is uh, This is a sort of greater demon of anger. Let's call it Uh from archvillain games He's a awesome dude who has a he's a 3d printer stl maker, whatever I don't I don't know how you say it But anyways, he has a patreon and this is one of the demons you can get out of his demon expansion I've got this guy and I've got a little lord of change type of model or giant bird arcanist I don't know. He doesn't name him. So it doesn't really matter. Um And uh, what occurs like it's cool, but man, this guy is busy.  So he's got a very expressive face Uh, so that's just a fun little side project And the reds you've used have popped out and hit me directly into eyeballs. That's the idea I love it. He's angry. He's here to punch you in the face. Great, dude. Uh, so yeah He's what's that how many hours have you put into him so far? Oh, he's early days I mean that guy's maybe like I don't know an hour hour and a half probably right now Yeah, that's I just hurt my soul That's it's it's not hard once you do it enough believe me you get faster. It's just It's just you you push it's that kind of deliberate practice Deliberate practice for speed and then deliver practice for quality and then trying to put him together It's nothing more than that. I mean, you know, I'm like 18 armies into painting this stuff So I feel like I hopefully have developed some sort of some sort of muscle memory for it at this point Um, but yeah, he's got a lot of work still but that's fine. He'll come back later Okay, uh, but I like painting those dudes and uh, I've got some some other fun stuff lined up. He has big wings But they're obviously not attached um Cool, all right, and then obviously I'm looking forward to new slanesh stuff It's all on order and it'll get here Sometime, but before we talk about slanesh next week. We've got to talk about doc this week. So Let's kick off daughters of kane Uh, they've got a new home. We don't usually do this Doing Right like the book hasn't dropped yet Uh, but somebody luckily like on whatsapp dumped all of the pages So like we've like we've been able to see the rules. Yeah, so we can actually review the the content Did you say it wasn't me? Please keep sending us stuff early You know, I could tell you exactly who it was because I'm not gonna do that. Sure.  I'll watch it like literally spread like a virus. It's incredible You can just it creeps like zerg um I've shared things with like Allegedly with like two people. I'm like, all right. This is doesn't go on like but I have to say which one are you doing? All right, so Uh, let's start with a high level view So we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna just spin around real quick Everybody give me a few sentences on what you think of the new doc book High level you're happy with it and then we'll kind of get into some specifics Jack kick us off man. What do you got? All right. I like that. Uh, it brought daughters of kane into, uh The rule set where everybody else is playing it The holy with it and you can't like, you know string along a model and buff a whole unit It's you know, I like that that it's like now we feel like we're getting I think you know Leasing the gas needs that to happen still but I like that that happened Okay, nice Brent. What do you what's your what's your early thoughts? What do you think about it in general high level? I think they kind of had that army Figured out with like the first book and then this one is like a cleanup book where like jack said, yeah, it's bringing things Uh in line and maybe changing up some things that People kind of focused on like it. There's not a whole lot. That's like New or real different. It's just sort of like a few changes here and there like the witch brew and then You know adding in the little bit of arathi stuff or broken realms marathi stuff that was in there like, uh The zainthar kai and then there's a new Temple so yeah, it really feels like It's a small update, but it's a nice one. Yeah, I like that very much Uh mark high level thoughts. What do you got? Yeah, I just want to echo jack's thoughts there. I feel like uh, there's a evocation that needs to happen in the design language There's certain things, you know, holy within, uh, you know, uh No, no singular term for things like deep drag. I know that Dense and Brent both of you have ranted to me about this topic various times. Um, individually, so I I like that that's happening and that that's being worked into the the rule books Even if they keep the the the terms of those things inconsistent I like that that stuff is at least being rolled out. So yeah, what jack said that's good tom. What do you think high level? Uh, like there's a lot of cleanup that happened and we've talked about that You know, like that's been a good kind of like catch word um And it it tweaked like oftentimes what doesn't happen is the weaker things in an army Don't get touched Like too often like the top gets brought down But the bottom never gets like brought up And I can't actually say that with this book Like this book actually felt like it like it did major work in um In bringing the bottom up But without liberating it Right without liberating it. Well, I mean, I don't know actually I don't I can't say that because and we'll talk about lifetakers because lifetakers are Okay, here's my high level thoughts. I have several one This book is a triumph from a design perspective Uh, it's so smooth and how it reads it goes down Like a buttery creamy Just smooth ale it just slides right down you read through it and the lists form in your mind Uh, you see the connections you get drawn down rabbit holes You get the idea to build different kinds of armies multiple din and myriad forces are viable and interesting We I'm not I'm not talking about high competitive or anything like that I just mean interesting and fun and compelling Uh and likely competitive to some degree or another or enough that they're fun Uh the individual elements all work together and fun in different ways The pieces feel like they have roles The book as far as its interparty parody feels so on point The uh new narrative is fantastic uh the um Like everything in this book is on 11 with one small challenge And that is that this book is so drastically and horrendously under pointed That if I was making dock lists right now, I'm just going to get this out of the top of the show If I was making dock lists, I would be writing dock lists at 1800 points and get myself happy with that um Because Your points dropped way too much like you Do Not so levels So that kickback is coming get ready You go and get punched in the mouth Either in the summer or the winter or the summer and the winter and then the summer again and uh It's coming I hear the train of coming. It's rolling around the bend Uh and uh, yeah, so that being said, uh, this book is an absolute masterpiece of design And I really do think that it's it's one of it takes its place amongst some of the better written battle tones that we have gotten so Okay, uh What's that? The Jarvis read it. I know you know, I I do know who wrote this but I don't like that discussion Oh, yeah, yeah, we just it was a call back. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay So gentlemen Are we ready for a powerpoint? Yeah Yes Let's have it. Okay. Give me that What you were saying how how easy the the bell tom slid down by the way I thought for a second if anything was going to get choked up it would have a snake tail on it for sure Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's true Uh, we got to swap our views here. Hold on easy to consume All right. Hold down my brain went to Wendy's milkshake Oh, sure. You mean uh frosty shake Yes Which is just a knockoff of a kubies malt that's from the town that Wendy's is just a knockoff of kubies Which is a fast food restaurant in the town. I'm from Uh, this is the whole thing Everybody in my town has a real chip on their shoulder about Wendy's because Dave Thomas stole his entire idea for his restaurant from a local restaurant In the town where I'm from.  So anyways, uh, daughter's cane 2021. Let's get into it army overview Wendy's is the Thomas Edison Fast food restaurant. That is correct. That is exactly correct. Yes, and then you go to tesla. Yeah, we come from tesla's hometown here. All right, so There you go all right, uh So I Let me let me see if I I'm gonna hit you with some stuff here. I know it'll take a minute for you guys to catch up So I'll talk kind on the scroll and I want you guys to talk Uh, even though the army the the the audience can't see you anymore All right, so army overview fast hard-hitting mobile army with lots of synergies and answers strengths fast solid battle line ambush high mobility spells prayers buffs synergy Unique tech pieces ultra high damage potential durability. Did I leave anything off? Or do you disagree with any of those points? Did you say ranch? Range. Sorry range. Sure. Yeah. Yeah ranged. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good point Didn't mention the range, but it's in there too.  Mm-hmm. Sure another good one. Yeah Uh, so yep range and hero phase fighting uh, or or out of sequence fighting or shooting Yep, out of sequence fighting or shooting. Good point. Yeah Yeah, uh weaknesses. I was looking for weaknesses, but then I it gave me a 404 error So I wasn't sure what happened there, but uh, they didn't seem to show up on the slide Okay, no, I mean doc has been for a long time a Competitive army right like it's it's always been at least competitive And I think that's because Of everything you see here like Ultimately armies have fundamentals, right? You can play with points and make things cheaper and more expensive and that can certainly affect an army's competitiveness Um, I mean if you put everything in an army up to a thousand points, obviously it would become uncompetitive real fast But that's not really what they're going to do, right? um But the Reality is is that an army's fundamentals make a big difference and when you have a combination of mobility durability Offense and then like spells and prayers lots of synergy. It's hard to imagine that army ever being Bad Right It just it covers so much of like The way you would win the game Right, there's like there's lots of different avenues you can use to win games And what avenue is the best is kind of meta-dependent, right? Like what's good right now? What do you need to do you need to get places quickly and stand there? Do you need to go somewhere and kill things like they can do all of those things and so on and so forth, right? so By the way, the people are now talking about the weaknesses Uh, it I think wins. He said weakness mongoose. That is true. Mongoose does beat snake. So their their weakness is 59 dollar battle line Yeah, it's like price price. Yeah fair fair. Um, they did give you one free witch elf, uh two months ago. So So if you put on disguises every time that you go in yes, it's like the old halloween candy, uh, uh, you know grift. Yes, correct Okay Uh, but yes, it's truly like the this army is is truly without weaknesses. Uh, so or or very minimalized weaknesses. I should say sort of light criticism But not really because I don't think that every army has to be everything. But yeah, there is kind of no Jokey version of this army like not to say that it's like every version of this army is going to be you know Very competitive but To me the army as a whole feels like it leans more competitive and that more if you're looking to yeah, like play some Play some games like there's a good army fee. I guess like well, I don't know Necessarily like that. I don't think it's like oops. I took literally anything and you died but it is but There's definitely like it's close. That's right. I was trying to look at it and be like What version of this would I play and yeah, there's not there's There's maybe not a lot but not everything has to be for everyone. So you can play craith with no, so this is a slaughter There you go. There we go. Yeah Yeah, it's it's not it's not slanesh and like original flavor slanesh and oops all locus, right where it's like I love by the way that mr I gang said bro, it's called oops all canary and he made the oops all joke at the same time And by the way, uh, I'm pretty sure the I mean all canary would obviously be silly But I'm pretty sure canary are gonna be a backbone of every army and blow enemy armies off the table Which we'll get it. I was like yeah disregarding About them since we'll talk about them But in my head the jokey version of this army was like Well, what if they were battle line in in uh kelton are but Then I learned that's probably a bad idea. Sure. I mean I would have been like yes, please Hey It wouldn't be the army that I wanted it to be tom would have a thousand points of them on the table and they would It would be a nightmare. All right. Uh, he did he dress up like the wicked witch at conventions and just be like flying by prettys Oh, it would have been so amazing like I'd run the shadow the teleporty one and it would just be It would be filth just pure filth. Yeah All right, so our next slide is courtesy of the one the only the legend himself Aos coach I was gonna put this slide together and then I was watching his review and he had it and I was like Hey, man, send me your slide. I don't want to redo work So so I just stole coach's slide um You notice there's a color on this slide that everything is Uh, this is the points slide And so obviously this is all of the things that moved and I can't help but notice that there's a singular color for every arrow And that color is green meaning they all went down And and and by the by they didn't just like Kind of go down. Okay Some of these things had momentous meteoric drops I Am blown away by these point drops. So I'm gonna I'm gonna hold my tongue here because I already said my piece on this Said my piece counted three Rerolling one screw anybody who wants to take this Uh, what do you think of the points going down so? Much in this new book. Yeah So right off the bat I wonder if this is in relationship with the armies that are out now Or if this is in relationship with something that's coming And so that that kind of tells me like maybe they're looking to shift the model count for a 2000 point game up in in stuff That's coming. Um, this is how you do that Sure, if you had like big points drops across the board, you're saying you want to have more models So you would you so they take the opposite of what they did in 9th edition 40k where they raised the points across the board Right, right. This is basically saying we want our hs sigma games to be a little bit longer And you know for everybody and the first time you get that that bump is right here Well, it it's funny that you suggest that yeah because of one slanash In two that like potentially they may be making the board smaller Um, and if that's the case like it's just all very curious, right? Man, the gas gets even hotter if you make a board smaller for this army. Yeah, right. Yeah It's true. Um Yes, so I mean just like to highlight some of the key elements here when you see something like witch elves dropping 20 points Like yes, I understand that they didn't change that much because they also lost their horde discount Like so there's some argument how much they changed But I would argue that changing 20 points down on individual tenors is actually a huge deal Anytime a unit drops by 20 points when it's already around the 100 point mark When you multiply that out over an army where you're not going to take every block in 30 You might often be taking 10s or 20s, you know, it can actually be quite a lot of points in a whole army, right? He's paying some money Uh, yeah, the blood rack medusa going down 40. Uh, that's crazy on 140 point model to drop 40 points And it was single whack like that's not so Uh, and the stare got better It's trying to drop 50 so it's 60 it only cost you 60 points to get the shrine Yeah, yes What's shocking about the blood rack medusa is she got so cheap and yet I'm not sure anybody's gonna take her because the shrine is only 20 points more than the medusa used to be That everybody was happy to pay for So now just get a 13 wound version of that thing. I guess Uh, so that's cool. Uh, the hag queen on cauldron down 70 points 70 points seven zero Like I got nothing. This is madness Uh, so my argument is make your armies at 1800 points and you'll be playing in the right area Okay um other thing about the points kind of unlike the other side is when they introduced the I mean like with the What the medusa like you could make the snakes battle line before but now with like the iron scale You could make them battle line. So like that and they're being like there's still some shadow and pain boxes floating around I was excited at the process of like, okay, like other ways to build armies Daughters of cane has been like a really inaccessible army because it's just it was expensive I was like, okay. Well changing that up then this is gonna make that easier But within these points coming down Then you're having to buy more stuff. So It seems like a problem that can be fixed. So hopefully if the points come back up Then this is now a more Accessible army than it than it was before whereas right now it's kind of about even, you know Yeah, I mean and like also on a note by the way you mentioned the milusite iron scale Um, she dropped as well In the three months she she dropped by another 30 points. She's not on this list. You left her off coach But that's okay.  I wasn't gonna redo a slide for one one model. Um, she dropped 30 points Like everything Everything got cheaper. I mean, you know, I mean, yes, marathi cane like I saw I saw ps PSI 915 I see you saying it's because broken realms marathi made marathi 600 points I mean it did because it completely changed her war scroller functionality And she is the most worthwhile 600 points you can spend in this game Like, you know, a lario 600 points too Yeah, you ain't happy about that 600 points like Yeah, uh, marathi is like the single best investment of 600 points. I think any army can make She is the best god character, right? Yep, would anybody argue with us? Like she is the best the fact that you can't You can't like techless you can watch like if a k.o. Or is he could probably pop him off before he gets to go Right. Yeah, if jack can't kill him one turn. Yeah. Yeah, like he has the best Stop it.  Yeah, marathi just is the best. Yes. Yeah Yeah, so I mean like if you it's Yeah, anyway, we're not let's not be rated anymore. I'll just say that there are a huge number of points drops and um It doesn't feel tenable in the long term I'll just say I've loved writing lists I bet It's fun to write 2,200 2,250 lists, you know point let's fun to write 2,000 point lists that should be 2250 That's super now Let me just say this. I don't think all the points drops are problematic What do you say avatar of kane can be 130? Because they took away the uh the faction spell I don't think doom fire at 120 or problem either That's a good point tom. I would like actually for you to take it can be your take on that I mean, I don't know that much about how the army was before So when you're looking at these new stats, uh, or the new points Is it like a lauren to you that this is this cheap or is this like yeah, it probably should have been 130 120 this whole time For what for like doom fire? Well, actually like I'm I'm actually talking about the stuff that got these meteoric changes Uh, yeah, so like the I'll say this so the hag queen so the cauldrons. Let's start with the cauldrons The cauldron should have never have dropped right I agree. I I I will just say that flat out. Um Now I will say this like those cauldrons are competing though with the new realities of like the Of the battalion of like of of the new incentives that have been put in place And I've had a hard time like I don't ever I don't ever slot in a slaughter queen anymore ever Like in in any of my permutations slaughter queens have never made my list Uh, yeah, I mean I I don't want to get too deep. I know I want to hear the rest of your point tom But I'll say I think in general it would be impossible to defend these point drops holistically right Sure That's that I think would be the take-home point like could we have we could go on and make this whole show Unit to unit and as a matter of fact tyler emerson scrubby and wells and I did that for three hours a couple nights ago Yeah, wait unit by unit compared to every unit wrote up what we thought the actual correct points for them should be Yeah, so like you can do that. That's not they show but but holistically this is indefensive Well and what I'll say is this but like the blood back rack medusa Let's just look at her 100 like that is really aggressively costed and I still don't think she's going to make it into lists Sure, sure because at the end of the day She's competing with other pieces that are doing her job better And so you just don't have those extra points to throw at her And if I have a hundred extra points at the end of my list writing, I'm not adding a blood rack medusa I'm adding a bunch of the shadow Shot or the the shadow stalker. Yeah, right which aren't on this list, right? Because at the end of the day like the problem the reason why the points dropped on so many of these issues these units so much Is because they don't have a place in the army They're competing for slots And they just don't stand up toe to toe. And so they're they don't actually like The let me say it this way the reason the points got the way they are Like I'm not in this like I'm not in the testing circle. I don't know what the conversations were But I can tell you as I look at this the reason why those points are so low Is because they they weren't competitive competitively priced Because they're they're trying to fill holes that don't exist in the army Does that make sense? I mean from a theoretical level or from a practical level of how actual armies are pointed in this game where there's 24 other armies that have tons of units that are never ever seen in any kind of list ever and yet Haven't got more than a 10-point drop in three ghp cycles So which which standard am I using there? So but here's the deal that I hear your critique and but let me just say I wouldn't encourage you I think that The attention that was given to the To the non all-star units Sure the doomfire warlocks and the Um and like even the heart renders going back down to 80. Um, like I and the avatar came like kudos to the development that went into place that identified these as As units that would never fit into a normal list because of how they were pointed Okay, because we don't see enough of that in when books are updated Most of the time the top is only ever brought down the bottom is never brought up Or very rarely and so like I love what has happened here from a development standpoint But it raises concerns to me when this is what benza's talking about is like when you compare for example uh, like morgue wave the bloody and her crew at 80 With just like I don't know Just a normal hag queen Or or when you look at um Or when you look at like What you're getting on a blood rack shrine for 160 or a blood rack medusa at 100. It's silly It's it's almost The cynic in me says this is probably related to the inventory in their warehouses Uh, I mean I but I don't think that these decisions are being made by people who know inventory numbers These are your development. Yeah. Yeah, this is not like this is this is not anybody that actually has a beat on those things I think that they're genuinely saying Hey, doomfires have never been on a table at any event. What do we need to do to change that? Sure, and so Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead finish that and so what I would say is this I I love what has happened here with the less the less Uh, uh, like for canary lifetakers like their points didn't go down, but they got rend on charge Sure, and so like what I appreciate is that the things that were weaker were brought up and that very rarely happens Which you hit the nail on the head of what I would have rather seen with those kinds of scrolls, right? Which is okay. How can we make this don't don't just rock at the points down Figure how to make the scroll more interesting in different modes, right? And so what I'll say is this when I look at this list and like this is Everybody that I talked to in the doc like what's app chat has said this almost uniformly that They just don't know where to start I hate you so much. I mean in any rate. Yes That's the concern is that like there's so many good options and good combination of permutations of units They're just not sure where to start and you know what? I don't know that that's a bad thing That's a great problem. It really is. Yes. The abundance of riches problem is what you're describing, right? So much right. They just don't know which units to To to pick up and use and so like again, I don't know that that's a problem And in fact, I think all books should be designed in such a way that when you pick it up You want to you want to play all the units in a variety of permutations and often that's just not the case And so I think that the doc book has been a success But the problem is it's a success in a meta where like when you lay it alongside the slanesh book It's embarrassing. Yeah. Uh, no, I can't wait for this thing to Uh plow through people like a Japanese bullet train.  I'm excited to watch just choo-choo I like I made that I made the realization today and we'll talk about this probably later Is that a unit of 20 lifetakers? Can potentially Table most armies if they can get into combat with it. Yes If you could actually stream out the unit of 20 it could do if you can actually get into all of their wounds You can do 140 damage to a four plus safe. Jack. All you gotta do is just take all the wins away. Come on So like if the army What what tom is saying is mathematically accurate? Let me break it down here just in case just to be clear What tom is saying is that is that if you could take a unit of 20 and string them out on their 40 mils such that they contact every unit They're damage and you and you divide up their attacks appropriately, which you'll never know what the numbers and math Yeah, exactly. So it'll never actually jack will but theoretically What's really fun is that With a buff, which is there was a couple of buffs only one of which is multiple is When there's a line that no, it's not. It's not when the planet's aligned jack. That's what I'm saying. This is not that Okay, that's what I'm hedging against The you have to do mind razor, which is which is admittedly a tough cast. We'll talk about mind razor And in unbind but continue.  Every other buff is automatic It just requires you to do it or spend a resource. There is no roll to it There is no chance to it that unit will hit for 140 damage on a four plus save It will it is it will do an amount of damage equal to the greater than the average armies wounds I like yeah I've been I've been a buyer of lifetakers for a really long time And now I feel vindicated. Yeah, sure sure I mean you're allowed that game you get one game to do that, right? Oh the the game and happens You're gonna be like the other players Just gonna watch as their army literally explodes off the table as as a as a small sun is formed from the the The intensity of the wounds being dealt. Anyways, let's get into it. All right only 53 for five I love that. There's so many like different personalities who play this game. They're like well the math. I'm like, what do you mean math?  So I'm gonna get it off It's going and I roll that one. I'm like, I hate this game What was the chance of that? All right Yeah, exactly. Uh, if you here's here's an easy heuristic for you jack. You ready? Um The chance of you getting a three plus on a d6 Is the same chance as you getting a six and a half to cast a spell in other words What I mean by that is it's harder than casting a spell on a six It's easier than casting a spell on a seven. That's the statistical likelihood of it. Never come in the odds. Sure Okay, uh So Indeed You know ghost one says math hammer almost never translates into practice. Yeah, yeah, sure Sometimes it does and boy, I it's unfortunate when you're that the person in that game where it does happen Because yes, you're right law of large numbers. Sure Uh, but that's not how we experience the world. I don't experience a law of large numbers I experience my games, right and and not only that like math hammer for those that like trust the numbers They're like they're hedging their bets based on odds And so they're making decisions based on like i'm going to send this unit in because I know on average It's going to remove seven of your models, right? And uh and by the way as a side note That's what I said is sort of the good alignment of stuff when your upper end By the way, that isn't the most they could do there are more buffs we could put on there That isn't the right. We're talking averages folks. Yeah, that isn't the max buffs or the max damage. That's the average damage um when that's your high average Like oh, you're right. Sorry. I didn't hit it.  I missed it by 50 damage So anyways, I'll I'll take that low end I have everything else but Yeah, so at any rate um allegiance abilities. They're the same as before It's an escalating table of re-roll ones and a six plus feel no pain end of discussion I think like The re-roll wound rolls a one used to be something else, but besides that it's just the same No, it's the same table Okay, yeah, it's runs charges hits wounds Immune to battle shock saves and then on turn three your avatars come alive The wound is the chain or was the change that it doesn't work in shooting that it's melee only For the for the frenzy I don't know you're talking about slaughter or shrink I don't remember a field when I don't know if the old one didn't mention shooting That's a good question I mean, yes, you're right that the current one is melee only the current re-roll ones do it No, no both snakes take that snakes. Uh, yeah, the shooting snakes are clearly bad now.  I just I just roll mortals man. I don't I don't what do you mean re-roll wounds? Okay What is wound? What do you have? What is a wound roll? I've never heard of it. Uh, I just go straight for them mw's All right, uh command traits and artifacts command traits basically pointless as the sub factions are all great I don't mean this as an insult. I mean this as a tremendous success. There is a table in here It's called command traits. You'll never use it. Don't bother to read it. Well, stop. No, this is not true Good stop being a negative Nancy. Okay. So here's the here's the deal Right now There's something broken about the book And not and not what you think we're going to talk about. Yeah, you're going to talk about a weird corner shooting thing That's going to get FAQed out man. People are going to take the sub factions. I'm not being a negative Nancy I'm being incredibly positive. I'm saying the sub factions are all amazing Like they are amazing But what I'm saying is is that there are a lot of people complaining about the traits You're like nobody's ever going to take these as it's currently written. Yes corner shoot for us tom. I'm ready Cauldrons are not mounts Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah So even though this change was made in every other world in every other instance, right um For some reason they're not mounts right now Which means that the traits currently apply to all weapon profiles that a uh That a cauldron is yes So like for example master of poisons is just plus one flat damage to all of the weapon profiles to the general If your general is a cauldron that means the witch elves on there are doing two the sort of canes doing four um, so I can see some weird corner case where you don't take a Take a temple If this doesn't get fixed, you know where somebody wants to play and explore But if it gets fixed no one will ever look at this page again So thank you tom for saying the thing that is going to get FAQed. Yes. I'm not being negative I'm being to me. This is a positive. Okay. Like fine. It's here people can do it But like these sub factions are really some of the best and most compelling that's been written in a battle tone They're incredible top to bottom and so good and so compelling Like it's just the price of that is that the generic command traits become pointless You know, I don't I don't tell you man. This is the way to get my soapy army Sure. Sure.  Um The artifacts, uh, I wrote down the three I like but I welcome all of you to put in the three that you like Uh, if there if there are not three, I'm sorry if there's any others that you think I missed Um, the shadow stone, which is malusai only the plus one to casting rolls So it lost a little bit of its power, but still good plus one casting is always good Uh, the iron circlet which allow rerolls prayer rolls of one which is it goes on a dock priest only very potent Especially now that you can now put all your prayers on a two up if an avatar is standing around Uh, and the thousand and one dark blessings Which is a five up feel no pain For dock heroes. Um, can be quite interesting especially because you can if you're if you're a cobra kai fan like myself You can get three artifacts pretty pretty easy. Um, so that's usually my third pick Anything I missed out of the list that any of you guys like? I'm looking at this now. So no, okay Yeah, I'm excited the iron circle especially because um, I really enjoyed the the thing they added that no army has done this yet Or we'll jump ahead like the endless spells not only do you have endless spells that Yeah, they have endless prayers. Yeah, and so you can reroll So I think that's really cool that they come on Yep. Yeah, the endless prayers are really good and getting a reroll is it's a good thing Uh cable salad the slanesh review will be next week Uh, okay, cool. Tom. Did I miss anything on artifacts or anything else you you wanted to You wanted to uh hit there? Okay, tom, are you still there? Did I lose tom? Did I lose all of you? I I am sorry. I my wife is just dropping in. Oh, okay. Got it. I can't see you right now. So Because this is on my main screen. So I'm looking at this only this presentation Okay cool, uh, all right Next Uh spells and prayers the spell lore. I mean, I called it basically the same. There is some minor changes Um, you know these they're they're worth discussing and if anybody has anything they want to talk about that's fine There are two things I uh want to call here mirror dance still great for some movement shenanigans and mind razor Mind razor, you know, big change casting value eight 18 inch range increase the render by one and plus one damage No longer on a bravery compare uh, but on a On the charge So holy shit good stuff powerful Like it's just such a like it was such a punchy change um I like there is no change in this book as significant As the change to mind razor. Yeah yep The fact that you know, like uh, I think it was uh, vint Good night jack everyone's Oh, sorry, uh, I think with vince and tom you guys both, uh, like put out the fact that In the new world we're in now that you're either a dom or a sub when it comes to magic phase. Yes, right Do I see that eight the cat where I think where I think it's plus one um And so like in the world where you have slain and techless who can just shut down magic Like I know it's amazing to look at that, but it's like that might not go off as often as you hope And so I like that it does a lot, but it's still a test Yeah, I I think that to me when I look at mind razor The way I think about it is this If I'm in a game that would otherwise be tough because of hard hitting melee or bodies or wounds Right Then I'm generally not in a game against a spell dom generally, okay Like lumineath not a ton of bodies OBR not a ton of bodies. I'm you know saying I'm assuming negosh is on the other side of that which actually most of time He's not anymore, but that's fine uh croak Actually doesn't gentle like other than skink clouds, right? I mean it's not body moving. They're not it's not actually a huge number of bodies um, you know what what I'm here talking thinking is like Uh war clans right stuff like that it's going to flood with wounds or bodies or stuff like that Those guys you're going to get you can you can get this spell off pretty cleanly And you're just going to plow through it's still only 50 50 like it's still a slot machine I like so you're going to get it off at some point in the game Is what I'm saying right does it happen every round? No because it's even in your best case It's still a it's an eight with a plus one to cast that's just not the world Like unless you get a lucky arcane terrain or something right? It's not a world you can You don't build your strategy on this But when it goes off you are going to snow plow their army off right if you've set yourself up properly to do so um, yeah Even if even if it's even if it's only five canary I charge it Yeah, sure sure absolutely the key is just to have those missiles that they're ready for when it lands right right um When it with the spelldom armies, I think you're absolutely right jack It's not going to be you know, you're just hoping to get it off right But you don't build your strategy around this happening if it does it's a you know what I Yeah, you know what I don't need to worry about I May lay power against luminous sure sure or like I mean they have They have some neat defensive stuff, but like that that is not going to deal with the cloud of which else it's just not No, I mean outside of like archie on zinch like I don't know what zinch is doing against this army Like they're gonna get like okay.  You're done.  It is um Can I note that it's It's actually impossible for shoe to cast this spell It's an eight. I've never rolled over. It's never yeah on two dice Uh, probably not the army for you My tactic of just rolling lines works really well in this instance And you already have the army it's a good strategy if I already have the army, but it leads to winning games You you cut out a little jack, but I want to say this real quick the spell lore I think what's amazing about the spell lore is It's all pretty compelling stuff like The spell lures got gas in the tank, right? Like We mentioned mind raiser and mirror dance both of which are good But like steen shadows of the wither and the withering are also not bad third and fourth spells right So like this is a pretty decent lore as lures go Uh, wouldn't be my argument. I would look at uh, Shroud of despair is the only one that's like eh, but everything else is like It has a purpose. Yeah, and you don't need shroud of despair because you're not comparing bravery anymore Because that's not how mind raiser works anymore, right? Um, I mean for me like what I'll say is this I appreciated that they fixed uh That they fixed the um The mirror dance Before mirror dance was would let you move after the teleport right this was brought in line with all the other stuff So it's a wonderful change goes on that Um, I like that steed of shadows still does what it does which is a 16 inch fly and That it's it's castor only like I like because it's a really interesting tech piece for like marathi like for a little marathi. Yeah. Yeah But in general like there's a lot that's compelling on this list and I love that Yeah And you know ninjahn asked how does this army deal with msu screens and counter strikes or do bow snakes? Just deal with that. So one yes bow snakes are a good answer for that to this army tends to fight in waves You know that blood rights table is actually a great representation of how the army's fighting its waves crashing against the beach, right?  It's a lot of buffing and blowing And so I think that like even if you don't have bow snakes You can still deal with that just because you have successive waves like sure wave one might get tangled in the chaff Wave two is coming in Right and it's coming in hot with all the same buffs that the wave one had Right and there's a chance that wave one may fight itself out of combat In the hero phase. Yeah, you know depending on how you built and so like suddenly like what was entangled The so suddenly not entangled right and so that that may not always work Um, and they like if it's built correctly this army can trade units all day long Yeah, I mean, I would argue this army is answers the army, right? Like you you got a problem. Yo, they'll solve it Uh, so the prayers, uh, what I wrote here is basically the same and somehow blessing of kane still exists I was surprised by this Uh, this felt like a thing that was ready to be changed. It should be struck out of existence You should never be re-rolling feel no pains Or after save or negation saves or ward saves or whatever you want to call them They shouldn't have a re-roll and yet Here we are You know what the best part You know what the best part about this what though was I'm ready this exists And I've not written a single list with it. It's it's it's amazing not once not once Yeah, because this goes back to what I was talking about about like the development The way that it's been developed. It's been developed in such a way that like you're having to compete for these slots Right and a lot of stuff just doesn't make it Yeah, no, I don't I'm getting If I'm getting one prayer It's not blessing of kane. No, it's kind of it's not It's catechism of murder. Yeah, and so like that the fact that exists doesn't matter to me Because that's not what I'm doing Yeah, I mean at the same time if you're calling cocker and running his four I don't know if you saw his list tom, but he was running a four tower list Uh, and you know like four tower drakeganeth and he was just like Just this me grinder um, yeah And uh, so at any rate, you know, he certainly had the prayers, right But again, if I wanted to run a defensive list I like the fact that this exists because I have that option now. Those aren't the lists that I'm building But I like the fact that I could build for it What's amazing to me about this and then I want some re-rolling ones feedback here is that you've got six prayers Okay, and like again What four of them maybe five of them are things that you're like that could be interesting All right, right like this list is so usable Shockingly usable Yeah, the bench is deep. Yeah Uh, re-rolling ones through thoughts on the spells it kind of reminds me of Uh, the prayers reminds me of playing corn where like I had you know I couldn't have enough slaughter priests because there were so many good prayers You was like how many priests do I want to have in this army just because There's so many good prayers You can get them off and just but luckily you can you know have them on cultures and stuff But yeah, I really love the prayers and yeah, I just it reminds me of playing corn where I want a lot of priests Yeah, sure. Absolutely. Uh, yeah as it should be This is basically the other corn Yep, yep This is like corn too. Don't you wish you could corn like me?  Yeah and just They cut themselves They're so upset that they cut themselves. Yes, that's I assume that's just the other the girls who are down on there Turning around and smacking you with their their long pointy sticks because you failed to cast Like that's actually what they're there for you miss We mispronounce lots of words on re-rolling ones and people get mad at us. So it's probably like that gotcha We do it on purpose now. Yeah Uh mispronunciations are I think probably 50% of this channel's content. So that's why All line you suffer one mortal wound for it. Oh, no, I must have a lot of wounds then uh All right, so let's talk sub factions gentlemen because here is where we get into the goods Truly, I think gasoline. Yeah, this is I think gasoline the Really this to me is the standout Of the book are the sub factions. They're all so compelling in their own way Uh, no, by the way, I didn't put xanther kai in here because I didn't feel like rewriting the same thing that we just talked about a couple weeks ago in In the broken realms from raffi review and then fixing or and then revisiting daughters came Um, it's the same. It's just xanther kai again from broken realms from raffi. So it's it's the same thing It's okay. I'll never take it. That's fine. I really love it. I'm a huge cobra kai fan strike first strike hard No mercy um, but That being said, it's it is what I get I can do that in hagnar too. I I understand All right, so let's start out. Here we go uh New sub faction kelton are uh, this was in the previous book But it didn't have rules in the previous book like it was just talked about, you know Uh, so kelton are is fantastic. Uh general ability retreat and charge for just your whole army. You can do that now Fantastic, I think that especially for newer players. That is the If you it's one of the most underrated skills to have is retreat and charge 100 you don't realize what you need like Why would I want to it's just it's huge. It's so much Yeah, I agree.  She's the only one who can't do it if she's in your army because she sticks to hagnar Right, that's why she's 80 points Just fine. There you go. Er Uh, command ability choose a friendly unit all roles of a natural one cause a mortal wound back to the attacker When they're attacked And it's okay Sure, there's a lot of ways to it's situationally powerful She's here's the deal like if you're in somebody else's combat phase They activate their start of hero phase abilities first And so you go would you like to activate anything and they're like, no, I don't have anything I'm not spending command points on you're like, awesome. Great. I'm going to turn on re Kickback mortals on ones to hit and now they can't turn on their Their reroll ones to hit yeah all out of soul because they're that phase has already passed And so actually like it has this really weird gotcha in their in their combat phases Now in your combat phase you have to make the decision before they And so in yours you're going to be like i'm going to turn on this ability and they're going to be like all out of salt because I don't want to take a bunch of mortals and so There's that Look, you're not taking kelton r for that command ability No, but but but there will be some corner cases where it's going to shine Sure, it can also be part of your chip mortal wound strategy Right because you've got bladed bucklers and you took the prayer that kicks back mortals when they die Right like you can do a pretty aggressive chip mortal strategy here Where multiple different instances you roll a one so you failed to hit kick a mortal wound back I saved to kick a mortal wound back. I died kick a mortal wound back, right?  I'm going to kick back mortals for you Right, so like again situationally there's going to be some situations where it's going to really shine So it's not a bad ability. It's not I would not Categorize it as a bad ability. Ironically, and it's funny. It is funny It's funny terrible to use in the mirror or in the in the release mirror against slainesh So that's a good that is a great method to generate a slainesh players to pravati Which we'll talk about next week. So I would be thrilled if somebody would turn that on against me um Okay, uh command trait once per game you can summon a unit of canary Whoa, what that sounds inconsequential. It is maybe one of the best command traits printed in this book Because it is turn independent Uh, meaning round five you can just be like, oh, there's an open objective over there canary go and just whoop You know the the the harpies might have been fixed They can't stay in ambush until turn five anymore like they used to be able to But these can So that's pretty good Free units are generally good for units in round five out of nowhere are better Free units out of nowhere in round five that also have a free secondary movement ability where they can float is better better is best to stir but So let me jump in and say also Let me remind you that remember we talked about those 10 lifetakers that did 140 damage Sure They're giving you five for free Yeah, which buffed up is 70 Is jack okay Yeah, we just all got an amber alert on our phones. It's um Oh, is that what it is? Okay emerge the broadcast. Yeah I also like the thematic time too since like the little lore bit talks about all the kinari that are nested Yeah Around this place and that's where I was like, well, why can't kelton or take them as battle line? and then yeah, you guys have Made that clear why that's probably a bad idea, but just regarding what's actually on the worst Thematically, it's cool. It is But and then your artifact is like almost all these artifacts like it's fine The other ones are good then you gotta I would have loved to have taken kelton are as Or to take in kinari's battle line like above in the obvious like in kelton are yeah like and like this is beyond like Power stuff like I just love the idea of like having a bunch of kinari Like just because you can have snakes is your main unit. I would have loved for kinari. I mean, let's be honest They are gorgeous models They are one of my favorite models in the dock line. If not my favorite even above marathi. Yeah, like they're That to a temple. I think is appropriate, you know Yeah, I agree or like or if they'd given us a hero kinari. I would have loved to that And like so it's just like but the here's the good news like they have room for development in a couple years right like they have some additional things that they can expand out and They can like some things they can explore And I love that. Yep. All right. Let's keep going all right Caleb ron Okay, so this is obviously this was always my favorite previously This is what I always took when I took my dock army um Ability stays the same. I wanted to be hit by missile weapons. The command ability is still almost the same almost You teleport a unit in the movement phase Not the hero phase and that unit can't move in the next Movement phase tom, would you like to explain the implications of the new teleports? Uh, yeah, I mean, but Yeah, it's one. I think it's a it's a it's a holdover from this being in the hero phase Sure. Um, I actually like I don't think that clause was supposed to be there. I But yeah, uh, how it actually works now because it is there Yeah, so what it means is this after you teleport in the movement phase it's Since you're at the end of your phase anyways, you're not going to move this turn And if you double turn you will not be able to move your following movement phase If you trade all like act like turns You will be able to move in your next movement phase because it says The movement is only in the next movement phase. And if you don't double turn it's the enemy movement phase next, right? When you design wise that is That's like my least that's my least favorite thing in the book when I read that I was like No Well, what I mean what again, I think it was an accident. I don't think it was intentional anything I think it was it's a whole word from that this used to be a hero phase teleport Which meant that they wanted to stop movement in the movement phase that happened in the same term. So I I don't know. I I think that it's really It could be I think it's really interesting is what I would say that clause alone makes me not take this temple Uh, yes, and I would suspect that that clause will get FAQed out Because I agree with you It feels like we changed like late in the game in development We changed the teleport from a hero phase to a movement phase Teleport and then forgot to remove that end clause Brian. Yeah, yeah I just imagine two players like playing this out two and then uh, somebody being like they teleport and then since they don't Or then they don't get the double turn and then somebody tries to move and like but you can't move in You know your next movement phase because like the only difference there is the word the It's like no since you went next then I still get to go like That's an argument waiting to happen. Uh-huh. Yeah, it feels weird. Yeah I just feel weird. It's like You give up your if they double turn you or they're like, well, I want to move my guys So I'm going to give you the turn I wasn't sure if it was like intentional because if they thought that that was like A way to balance it that marathi teleporting or blood sisters teleporting was like Too good. We're like, well, maybe we'll just throw in this little thing But thank you guys do this nowhere else in any other book Right, so it would have been super weird Yeah, even yeah, I like with other other other movement shenanigans. So yes Yes, even seraphon who can teleport every hero or every You know every you know every turn they don't implement a change Yeah, so it feels and I want that consistency right for me, right? I'm waiting for me to understand It's the kind of thing that shouldn't vary. Uh, so because it just it just breeds confusion Um, it's like the way some units will deal a mortal wound on a six, you know six to something And and the and the sequence stops and then some will be like one mortal wound And plus and it's like, okay, and you still get to roll your that's my favorite example of of the those rules In consistency tune in for slanesh next week when two different versions of the same unit have different sets of rules like that One of them stops and one of them keeps going and you'll get to guess which ones is which All right at any rate, uh The command trait is neg want to be hit by melee weapons for the general which is cool. Um, because obviously that can you know It's pretty neat. Um Obviously can be mean that that generals neg want to hit Kind of no matter what since they've already got the blanket missile weapon protection from the generic ability And the artifact is six is to hit deal a mortal wound in addition to everything else Not and stops So that's fine Basically, almost all these are just reprints of various realm artifacts, which makes them kind of boring. So but it's fine It's whatever Uh, we've gotten real boring with our artifact creation. That's my only my only small picadillo Crave Crave All right, the best worst change the best worst change. Yes Uh crave is interesting.  That's how it always was That's how it always was And so you But now it's on a five plus Which is great It's awesome We've been wrapping that five plus for a while. All right, but But It's only for sisters of slaughter units So, uh, basically all sisters of slaughter Get a one-third chance to fight twice in any combat phase So I guess if you like sisters a lot, this is the army for you Guys, uh, I know that we're Yeah, we'll go ahead. No bread, please Well, I was gonna say I know that we're talking about the allegiance abilities right now But you know, we see strength hammer in the chat here. Are we are we allowed to talk about tirathi? Oh, yeah, please my revelation today. Yes One of the reasons why this is a fantastic Battletome and I'm not familiar with this ever happening before but like I was reading through the uh Like the timeline portion of it today and notice that it starts talking about tirathi of the craith and I was like Wait, so did Did strength hammer Make this character based on existing lore or did they just put strength hammers daughters of king character just Totally canon. Uh, and then you guys confirmed that that is True. Yeah, I mean it was based on Queen Right. Yeah, so it's exactly right. Uh, yes, tirathi is now official canon. She's in there And uh, I you love to see it. Uh, that's right Uh strength hammer out narrative to all of us. He narrated so hard That he beat us at the narrative and got his character in there He got taylor swift into the mortal realms Congratulations and not just once not just once. I believe there are multiple references. Who are they? Okay I am I am Personally hoping for whenever we get a new storm cast book that we'll definitely see skig in there No doubt about it. Skig is going to show up. So I'm now everyone's going to try and do that They're just going to keep pushing their one character for like a specific, you know temple or storm host or whatever Uh, just wait until you have night question Oh Cordell Other stuff in craig the command ability is plus one to wound rolls. So it's good. That's that's a good command ability Can I just say my piece real quick on that ability that we talked about with the five up? Yeah, let me just finish this real quick and then yes, I'll let you run The command trade is plus one cp if any enemy units were destroyed and the generals alive, which is a fantastic command trade That's the equivalent of a thing called glory hog in the invaders slash book. I took it for years. It's literally the exact same text Uh, and it's incredible for cp generation, especially in an army that uh blends people for a living So, you know, it's good. Uh, and the artifact is d6 mortal wounds once again It's it's weird and I actually quite like the artifact here because it can actually just one shot out You know heroes or stuff like that or finish a unit Anyways, so Craith is cool. Now tom, please opine on the ability and sister's slaughter. Go ahead okay So here's the deal like I love When design points you towards decisions it incentivizes decisions Um, but this is not 45 degree design Okay Because what this says is that if you don't run sisters of slaughter you don't get an allegiance ability sure You have to run sisters of slaughter to actually get this ability at all Yep, and units that don't aren't sisters slaughter get no benefit from craith Yep Sure and like and by the way that command ability the plus one wound rolls is only sisters of slaughter as well It is yes. Yeah, I didn't include that but yes, you're right So What this tells me is like sisters of slaughter as the unit have never appealed to me So immediately craith is a non-option for me Yeah, but like I agree and you're right that there is a line here, right? You want to be directional, but sometimes it can be a little too on the rails, you know, like do you want to fix it? I know how you're gonna fix it. I'm not sure. I agree, but go ahead That the answer was simple On that five plus for sisters of slaughter Great everybody else triggers on a six plus Yes Yeah So you incentivize the appropriate way, right, but this really is the the sisters of slaughter You know faction but oh by the you know, but by the way if you have other units in this force They can still do something Yeah, sure.  Yes craith is I like so for me This was like a a non-bow like as soon as I saw that I was like well, I'm never taking craith again sure Not that you ever took craith to begin with you hagnar cheater Then here's the deal, but here's the deal craith was on my radar Before I saw that it was sisters of slaughter when I saw it was the five plus is on my first read I just glanced over salt was five plus. I was like, yes awesome And I kept going And I was like craith is now one that I was in like that I was in in high, you know contention Now it's not ever an option. Sure Well, I know at least one person in the chat right now who it's definitely an option for and is currently supplementing There 280 witch elves with multiple units of sisters of slaughter. So You just got to have craith Just got to have craith Okay, oh Let's yep talk. Yep drake Gah Neth What What This is where I'm living folks drake Ganneth Uh, so much to talk about in drakeganeth when you absolutely Positively need to kill every enemy on the board Except no substitutions Uh drakeganeth Is liquid hot murder distilled into sub faction form Uh, so the ability you increase the rent by one of all your sisters of slaughter and witch elves on the charge Witch elves being bolded. We'll talk about the implications of that in just a moment The command ability is plus one to hit rolls with the same groupings Uh, which is also amazing The command trait is plus one to bravery within 12. So who cares And the artifact is plus two attacks to one bearer melee weapon if they charge, which would normally be quite boring Uh, but because of reasons we're going to talk about that tom already mentioned. It's it lightly. It's not Tom, would you like to talk about the hilarious joke here? Uh, that that I don't think was intentional, but maybe it was Uh of what this ability does because I mean, yes It adds one to rend of sisters and witches and makes them blenders if they get mind raiser on top, right? Like witch elves at neg 2 rend is just like Oh my god Goes the enemy army, you know, witch elves go burr. Okay, so um But What tom I couldn't help but notice that bolded witch elf term Why is that relevant tom? I remember when I pointed this out to you guys and you guys are like, what? um funny story Cauldrons have two witch elves that stand on the stairs. It does. Um And when you go and look in the keywords All the cauldrons have the witch off keyword Yep, which means that what they've created is the highest rend in the game. Yep Because cauldrons now in drakey on charge move to rend neg 3 But if it's mind raiser, it's rend neg 4 4 damage and attack On the on the canes or on the on the all by the s and the amateur Minus 4 rend folks. It's in the game now. Well, there was one instance of minus 5 Don't forget that. Uh, what's his name super sword on his sixes to wound or something became Alternate alternatives and technically like Dwarves can just chant their priests is all they're like red Like dwarves all the way down But the reality is is that like this is something that you can easily get to yes. Yes Uh, even a neg 3 rend like let's just take mind raiser out of the equation The fact that this applies to the slaughter queen on cauldron who was already a murder machine capable of like 30 to 40 damage When buffed, right? Right when I go back this is like I gotta do the math. Yeah It was like it inspired math Because holy moses like this is gross This is why by the way as I mentioned Colin Cochran the four tower list Right of like four. I think one of them might have been a blood train But the other three were all cauldrons and you know, this is this is gross It's always had to be fair like they've always had the witch elf keyword always. Yeah. Yeah, sure. It just wasn't ever relevant Yeah, it's just never been relevant. Um, and so it is now um And it's pretty good Uh slaughter pretty pretty good. Uh, huh.  Uh, it's real real good. Uh, yeah, so Because yes, the slaughter troop is tuna sisters of slaughter A slaughter queen and two units of canary heart renders and units from this battalion can retreat and still shoot and or charge later in the same turn So there you go. Uh, you could also do a good old fashioned cauldron guard Which gives you plus one a run in charge rolls for units from this battalion either work Yeah, but you don't get to retreat like I like to retreat because you can pull out every turn and recharge for the bonus rent Yeah, it's fun. Oh And and if you're three inches out remember by turn two you have reroll ones charged So you will never fail that charge statistically Um because you're on a three in charge with reroll ones Uh Is good Yeah, drake. I mean one in like 3000 something we'll we'll fail but you will never play that many games enroll that many charges. Yeah Yeah, like I said drake ganeth is just just Distilled murder. So it's the my life murder. It's on my list drake. He's on my list I was gonna ask dude. Do you guys think this is this is the scary one? No Oh Nope, I wish it was it's my favorite one. It's it's straightforward like it's it's the You know all good armies all all good competitive armies ask a question Right, right, and the question this asks is can you handle this and most armies answer is going to be No, right No, no, no wrong wrong question. The question this army asks is does it blend? Yeah Don't breathe this The artifact joke is because the as tom mentioned earlier because of the way the cauldrons are set up right now where the rest of the Stuff isn't amount and hence you can give them the the magic art you can give the artifact to something else You can give the plus two attacks artifact to the avatar So now you have a six attacking neg for rend for damage avatar in this Yeah, you do which is you know avatar of kane Never in the history of ever Avatar does this much work. Uh, Sean Blake says get out of here. This isn't the strong one. Nope You're right. You're right. This is Uh Hagnar is just painting things as they come up It's like it's pretty good.  Unfortunately Hagnar our old bogeyman the capital and marathi's home guess what folks If you if you if you're gonna come at the king don't miss and uh Hagnar is still the king I wish it weren't true But it is Uh The ability add one to the current battle round for the blood rights table So much more The whole army the whole army so much more powerful than you think when you're rerolling charges from round one When you're rerolling hits from round two When your statues are all turning on round two, there's a lot of implications to that That means you're getting an extra plus one right away on your witch brew on your hags And in round two year so you move to fours on witch brew instead of needing fives in turn one Here at four in turn two which by the way I invite you to look at your games for the past year and let me ask you when did combat start or when was combat heaviest The answer in probably 90 of your games is turn two Sure On turn one, but they're usually heaviest or on turn two Right turn two is most the time when when your majority of your units will lock up And the grind starts. Yeah, and the fact that they turn on all of the reroll ones To hit at least in turn two for the whole entire army cannot be underestimated Yep, the fact that now all the call all of the the avatars get turned on from turn two So even if you don't have enough priests if you have those dumb avatars of kane walking around They can all like actually do things starting turn two Like so now you only risk having one dead turn instead of a few dead turns Sure, and by the way avatars aren't quite so dumb anymore. Not only are they cheaper, but they're better They're actually really interesting, which we'll talk about in a minute Uh, but let's keep moving your command ability is like you can get some extra movement out of your cauldron It's not that incredible It's the dead ability in this list. It is but here's the trick. It actually isn't even that bad Because in this like what's so hilarious about it is Like plus three to movement is is whatever and this is a pretty command point strapped force But I could actually see it being good to have in your back pocket because because of the nature of how you need to move Uh The the to keep the cauldron within your bubble. Yeah, yeah, exactly So like it ironically even for a pretty met ability can be Uh You know, what do we want to say it like situationally useful? Is that a fair way to say it tom? You all right with that? Yeah, but like on the average like if I'm want three inches on a charge. I'm going to do that on my Auto like moving my runs to sixes, right? Like you know, and that's going to net you about the same amount of movement So it's only when you need to auto run six and you have this other like when you really need to stretch Is when you're going to use that 12 right in my opinion. Yep Uh fanatical faith the old bogeyman still around somehow and uh fanatical faith moves to a five plus for models wholly within 12 inches of the general But there's a trick to that Excuse me. I didn't say units Holy within 12 of the general I said models Holy within 12 inches of the general. It's so great. It's such a great such an elegant subtle change Isn't it though because you thought you were done with stringing out witches back to your cauldron. Nope Nope, you can still string them out. There's a limit to how many you're gonna get like well This is what it is. I'm I can I can have this many five ups because I'm allocating to these models that are within 12 If the cauldron's actually up there in the battle, then it's completely irrelevant But yes, you can still string out to the cauldron because it allows models Holy within 12 of the general So general is more mystical terrain Yeah, they're super mystical And uh, obviously with as the aforementioned somehow still existing blessing of cane That's right. You can still have your Witches on four up five up five up. They can still be one of the most defensive units in the game on a daisy chain Uh, only now it's not seven inches from the cauldron. It's 12 inches from the cauldron. So hey, it actually got the god of murder or Oh, that's later on or You could have Doomfire warlocks on four up five up five up and reducing all damage by half with uh With uh, the prayer. Oh, we'll get to the iron heart of cane. Don't you worry about that? Uh Yes, don't you worry. Okay, and then your artifact is plus one damage to a weapon if the bear charged fine, whatever Uh, yeah, so it's real good. Hagnar is real good stupidly good because the ability to murder hard and still live Uh still exists in Hagnar But what I'll say is the others are more competitive. It's not as different as it used to be Yeah, there's real decisions to be made here. Yeah, like there's real decisions Uh, for me kelton are drakey and hag are all quite compelling Um with cala ron coming close assuming they clean up the wording So yeah, I I agree those are the three that anytime I build a list I have to think long and hard as to which one uh, hagnar still winning most of the time because of reliability Um, it's reliability of both increasing the turn and then also reliability because it makes uh Which brew more reliable? Yeah, that's it the other two drakey and kelton are are always always knocking at the door Because I think they're all very solidly competitive Yep, any thoughts there brent jack before we leave the sub factions behind mark Well, I totally agree. I it's hagnar is like still one of the top ones. It's not my favorite I uh, definitely think I like the the new one.  They won't Oh And it's painting. There you go.  No, there you go. Okay. I I can't see you guys right now. Oh, there we go. Yeah, I can All right on all right Units, let's talk some unit changes. All right Uh, you know in my head. I was like, this won't be that long of a show. There's not that much to cover This is all simple. What? All right, uh heroes I'm just gonna blow i'm gonna blow through these changes real fast and then you get we can we can all talk about them So here we go heroes marathi the shadow queen the heart renderer is down to neg one rend. So it's heart Render light now doesn't rend as many hearts Uh, it's ironic that the thing went down and rend when rend is literally literally Yeah, it's uh a bit of irony Uh at any rate, uh the blood rack medusas all versions of them the stair range was increased to 12 inches which is actually a huge change from 10 inches the amount of more models Uh that you get in a 12 inch stair versus a 10 inch stair is crazy Especially if you're talking about staring at it like a 25 mil horde Uh, so that's a cool change. That's right.  They got better Uh, oh, I didn't write it here, but they also got a second to spell. Sorry. Go ahead Tom The second spell on vine. Uh, those two I was just gonna say those two inches are doing a lot of work. It's Yep, hold it back. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't take the low hanging fruit. Okay Uh, so anyways, uh, yeah, she also got a second on vine. You're absolutely right Uh, the hag queen witch brew is no longer automatic But your sippy cup is now a five plus to grant the re-roll wounds and battle shock immunity Plus one to the roll in turns two three and four. It's hedged against the it's not actually in turn two three and four It's when you achieve the the bonuses granted by the blood rights table that align with turn two three and four Hence in in hag gnar you're actually on turns one two and three Meaning that on turn three you're actually on a two up to grant witch brew, which is You know, basically the same thing as the old version at that point. Uh, so that's cool I love that because the tea is brewing, you know over the battle rounds. She's got to steep it. Yeah a lot of steeping Yes Steep the blood. Yeah, absolutely The priests including the slaughter queen can use one of their can can basically pray a lot now If you kind of think about it all in like they can use one of their war scroll prayers The avatar prayer the additional granted prayer and the new endless prayer if you put in your army So you can potentially have a single priest praying for and I understand the endless prayer is actually like an invocation It's not actually technically a prayer Um, but they can attempt to do it. I don't want to get too. Please don't catch me out in the semantics here um, but The priests can do that, but wizards still only get what's on their war scroll.  I just could not write it down because it it I did It still blows my mind to this day. It's been blowing my mind ever since this book was written What if it was called murder shield? I uh Yeah, pretty awesome at any rate. There's your hero changes thoughts all around who's got some who's got some some thoughts I think witch bro's still fine Right. It's incredibly potent in hag hag gnar. It's fine in other armies Something on marathi. Was this in broken realms marathi where she has a little bit about Like somebody else is still your general, but she's also your general. Is that like was that in there? Okay Um, I was wondering if we think Like I know there's nothing in there in slanesh That is similar Um, but I guess I don't know, you know when the books would have been written Do we feel like this is maybe a hint at a third edition design that if you have like a really big powerful named character everybody's kind of seen this weird disconnect of like You're purposefully choosing somebody else to be the general because you want the command trade So it's like there's no point in you know making before like marathi your general or Lady o linder like should be the general and her command ability is like well If she's the general but people are still like and it's still not worth it This this random little ghost is going to be the general instead Do we think we'll see more? Yeah Yeah, I don't know my answer Brent is Maybe I think it's something you could see more especially with the god characters right the people you're talking about Where it's like boy these people feel like they should always be the general But we don't want to pigeonhole people into building their army like that So we'll just give them a little benny right and say hey no matter how you decide to build your army They're also the general because marathi's on the battlefield. She also has command and control right? Yeah, I liked that. I thought that was cool But I guess it's not new so it's not new, but no it is it is real good Well then back to I like the steeping blood tea as do I I think the witch brew change was solid. I really do um Yeah, jack you're cutting in and out by the way your internet has is is uh, it's not great Which one should know that it's like it's like every time you talk you drop out So, uh, you might want to if we're streaming the show as well.  Um, all right So, yeah, I that's that's hero changes. I mean I have a summation statement. I'll make it the end, but that's fine. I'll save it. Okay Units. I will also the plus one. I do dig the medusa change. Yeah, totally. Medusa change is great Uh, I love their stare and I always felt it was underused because 10 inches was just it was this weird thing That was right on the edge, right? Again that difference is actually pretty massive um yeah Okay, which units uh, which elves now plus one to wound from a nearby hero instead of plus one attack Still a great bonus still very deadly. Um, you know, what's better than re-rolling fours re-rolling threes um The avatar of cane Grants a plus one to prayer rolls within 12 inches, which is cool because that guy actually has a purpose now Uh, so that's pretty wonderful The lifetakers plus one to rend and to rend and damage So both the change being to rent if they made a charge move And they must drop by turn three same with the heart renders That they must drop by turn three. So, you know brought in line with the standard ambush type of stuff. So that's good And uh, no grumpy. I am serial killer. I'm not zero cool. Uh, and doomfire warlocks Still in the army somehow I guess they still get to be here Uh, so good on them But the change is they can only cast arcane bolt mystic shield and doomfire. They can no longer cast other spells Yeah So there you go something about witch elves When I read this I was surprised like this is games workshop Fighting against their nature to be like what if you rolled last dice, but you wounded better I was very surprised they made that decision Yeah, it feels it feels like a good change, right? Like Yes, uh, I I'm at I support the dice away. What yeah roll less higher quality roll less dice But makes me dice you roll higher quality weird Yeah, it seems positive Uh, I like the plus one to prayer rolls I actually have two avatars on foot in my army because I had extra avatars So I was like, yeah, why not? Well, I just painted them because they were fun to paint and I never really used them Uh, but Now I could see it. I know there's been lots of people talking about running like four avatar lists and stuff I mean now by the end of this this chat anything involving avatars of cane. I'm just like, yeah Great. Oh, yeah, doomfire is also a shorter range. Thank you very much ghost button. Yes, I did miss that Okay, anybody else any other thoughts On this stuff Tom seems good Any other thoughts on the units? I mean all good changes, right? They're good. They're good. All good Yeah, the rend makes sense all the good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean It's it's fine. All right. I love when somebody has a name though. That's like death bringer life taker zero rent right Uh, boy, we're gonna talk about that next week. Uh, all right. I think we did a skit about the rend of various weapons It's yeah, it's hilarious like I get it. I get the c