Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live studio here in Barcelona, Spain. This is theCUBE's live coverage of MWC24, formerly Mobile World Congress. I think they kind of still call it that, Dave. I'm John Furrier, your host. We do Dave Vellante and Shelley Kay. We still call it Mobile World Congress. Wrapping up day three with a great segment from Qualcomm leader. Obviously everyone knows the name of the company. They do a lot of great work. They know telecom, they know devices. They got the chips. Everything about wireless and mobile, they've been in the game for a long time. Zia Dashkar is here, SVP, senior vice president, product management, head of AI technology roadmap. He's got the keys to the kingdom. He's going to share that with us. Zia, thank you very much for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate your time. Thank you for having me. Great featured interview to end day three. So first of all, I got to just throw it out there. Product roadmap. That means you can see the future. Product management means you got to deal with the reality of today. Absolutely. Which is a challenge because it's a lot of hype but the reality is matching up to the hype pretty quickly. So I'd love to get your perspective right out of the game. Where are we with AI? Besides the fact that I was talking about it, reality, what you're working on at Qualcomm and how that relates to real world. Yeah. So it's been amazing, right? Last year at Mobile World Congress, we started by showing something called stable diffusion, which is a text to image model. And we were able to run that seven billion or one billion parameter model entirely on the device. In this one year, we've made amazing progress. And if you go today to our booth, what you would see is we're running a seven billion parameter model. And it's a model that basically can understand images. So it's basically a lava model. We have done in the meanwhile, large language models like Lama2. We have an engagement with Mera. So just think about it, right? The chat GPT like model is a 175 billion parameter model. And what we're running on the device, seven billion parameter model, the models are improving and becoming a lot more capable and smaller. And that's opening up an amazing opportunity for on-device processing. It's literally like that the center of gravity of AI is shifting towards the edge. And that's why it's so exciting for us that we are actually seeing devices launching with AI enablement. So if you go to the Honor booth or if you go to the Samsung booth, these are devices based on Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 from Qualcomm that actually has use cases that are running today on the smartphone. Things like translation, things like, you know, circle to search, things like being able to do transcription, to be able to do summarization, amazing utility applications that people are using today. So I'm very excited about it. You know, it's interesting what you just said wasn't even possible a few years ago. But then when AI hit with chat GPT and everyone saw that value, it took massive resources of GPUs, back-end cloud operations to just do some of the things you're saying. Now the trend is what it means is it's going to the device. Which means that's an offload from a resource now, energy. So a little save the planet action there too in terms of sustainability. Are we just getting started? Where do you see this going next? I mean, how fast is it moving one? And when do the devices catch up in terms of processing at the edge, in this case the device, with some of the back-end stuff? Hold on, I want to jump in here because last year, at this show, you were talking about stable diffusion. And I remember going over and getting the demos and it was just like mind-blowing. But it was very interesting because people were kind of scratching their heads about. What do we do with this? On device, how is that going to work? How does that make sense? So like you're saying a short one year later, the amazing use cases, I mean it's really fantastic. Really fantastic. Honestly it's very amazing and encouraging to see when you work on a technology and to get it this quickly into end product is just superb. But I think there's very good reason for it. What do we see happening, right? A lot more people are coming in and using Generative AI, number one. A lot more applications are coming for using Generative AI because there's amazing amount of benefit that it brings. And because of that reason, as that scales, how do you cater to billions of people, not few million people? Just like with the internet, right? Before the advent of smartphones, internet was available to a very small number of people on the PC and we were able to grow it massively once it came to the smartphone. It's very similar. Generative AI may have started on the cloud, but it's transitioning to the edge. It's coming to the device and that brings in with it amazing amount of benefits. It democratizes the technology. It keeps what is private private as you process that data on the device. It does not go to the cloud, which means it stays private. Number three, what it allows you to do is to be able to do that fraction of cost compared to what it would take you if you were doing it in the cloud. Remember, this is running on gigantic engines, graphic engines in the cloud, burning hundreds of watts of power. But with Qualcomm technology, we are able to run it in milliwatts of power. Amazing sustainability benefits. And then lastly, what is really amazing is that you can now personalize the generated AI experience in a very big way because there is information about each one of us on the device, information that stays on the device, but never leaves the device. I always give this example, right? If I go to a large language model and ask a question, that question, the answer should be different when I ask it versus when my seven year old boy asks it, right? But right now it's the same answer. But if I do this on the device, the device knows who's asking the question and I can give you a far more pertinent answer. So what this really means is the generated AI experience on the device is far better and in many ways more complete than what you're able to get on the cloud. So I believe that. By the way, it's not always the same answer because sometimes it hallucinates and gives you a different answer but that's not what's standing. I want to ask you about the parameter wars because I've read and talked about what people say, well, when you go from 500 billion parameters to a trillion parameters, it really doesn't get much better, et cetera, et cetera. Now you're scaling it down from a billion to seven billion. You must have seen a big difference between one billion and seven billion. Help us cut through the marketing hype and understand that sort of delta in terms of parameter size and what we could expect as users. Yeah, I think what we are seeing is that when a new model comes up, it's usually fairly large. Then people start to do curation. People start to distillation. They do pruning. They do quantization. All techniques that we have honestly perfected at Qualcomm because well, we were all trying to run these models on very small handheld devices. So those things are allowing us to be able to do things that others cannot do. Number one. Number two, what's happening is when the new modality comes, the model might be very large. But over time, people choose the right amount of data and that smaller model is still very performant. I gave the example of chat GPT-3 versus say Lama-2 from Mera. If you look at some of the comparisons, they come very close to each other. Even the one is 175 billion and the other is a 7 billion parameter model. So there is this new advent of what people are calling SLMs or small language models. They're still very performant, still very capable and that's what's allowing this great transition to happen. Another thing I would like to mention are what we're calling domain specific models. So you know, you can train this model on reams of data on multiple books and all. But what you really need is for example, let's say a medical application. If you train the data only on that medical data, that model is going to be smaller and it's going to be less prone to hallucinations. It's going to get a better response and I think that's where the technology's going. The question I want to ask you on that point is you mentioned Lama-2 and catching up. The proprietary models have great penetration but the open source ones are catching up in capability and adoption. Okay, we totally agree with you on the power law that's going to happen both on volume and also specialty. So we see that exactly same. The question is if that continues of open, you're going to have the scale and the low power on the device, the developer market's going to be ripe. So I'd love to get your thoughts. What's your vision on the developer market coming in here because as this continues to move down the track, the device is getting smarter, faster, cheaper, open, scalable, distributed. This is exactly what we are seeing by the way. So you really pointed to the trend that we are seeing and as a result, what you've done here at Mobile World Congress, you've launched the AI Hub. The AI Hub is a great tool for a developer. If he wants to take any of these innovations that we have done, we have placed about 80 curated models. They've been tested on our platforms. You can go to the Snapdragon AI Hub, you can go to GitHub, you can go to Huggingface, download the model, it creates a binary, you plug it into your application and voila, right away you're actually able to launch an application. We want to reduce that friction for a developer to be able to take these experiences onto a device. So AI Hub like tools, we're seeing amazing response with that because people are seeing that benefit of being able to take them quickly to a device. So real quick on the clarification, AI Hubs where the developers go, the news about the on-device gen-air, that's the capabilities you were just referring to. So it's the combination of the on-device enablement, AI Hubs where the developers will be warring hold for the developers and that's where they do their stuff. But for on-device to your point, what we're doing is we're continually moving the bar. We're making the AI engine inside our products much more capable. The CPU, the GPU, the Hexagon NPU, they're all becoming far more capable. We can do larger models. We can do more AI processing at lower power consumption. And I think, and along with that, an amazing AI stack that allows you to be able to do this. Think about it this way, right? NVIDIA and other companies do a great job on the cloud side. What we are driving is basically the power of inferencing on the edge with the best in class, hardware, software and assets for the edge processing. Constraints on the old days were motherboards and the sides of the boards and the chips. Now, power is a constraint. You mentioned power, huge issue. So open check, I think that's going to end up being most of the long tail and the neck and torso. Maybe some proprietary models will hang around and be there because the size needed to get them. But if the open continues, the low power is going to be the enabler. Where do you see that being going? What's the impact of the power piece? Yes, I think it's amazing in the sense that, think about it, let's say billions of people running these models and billions of use cases.  Just look at the amount of difference it makes from a sustainability perspective. I recently saw an article which is talking about the fact that to run an LLM, you need like almost a bottle worth of water to cool those systems down. This is one LLM, now just scale it over. Advantages are massive and open source models becoming as performant as closed models is a huge trend. And I think that will really open up these capabilities to the masses. There's a lot of benefit that those companies that are opening up are able to derive because people are building on top of the work that they have done. So we're going to see this trend continue, more on device, center of gravity, shifting much more towards the edge, more performed models coming, more open source models coming. And the power aspect really is what allows this to be available to everybody, not just a few select people. Well in that I think is the beauty of the Qualcomm AI Hub because you've long been known for your developer support, your developer ecosystem and all that. So this is yet another tool for developers to allow them to create and innovate and scale and everything else. Absolutely, by the way we're seeing a great response already because people can take these generative AI models like stable diffusion, it's there over there. You can pick it up from there and readily create an application. And what I'm excited about is there are many applications that we might not even thought about when we were designing these chips. But I hope that developers are able to come up with those amazing ideas. That's why we do this, right? What's the difference between a Hexagon NPU and just a regular old everyday NPU? Yeah, so think about it this way, right? The AI engine that we have inside our chip, there are three engines that can do an amazing job of AI processing. There's a CPU, there's a GPU and the Hexagon NPU. CPU is great for something that are relatively smaller models that you run quickly and go away very latency sensitive. GPU is good for heavy models, high precision models. But if you're talking about models that are running nonstop, if you're talking about pervasive AI, for example a co-pilot like application where on your PC, the AI model is continually looking at how you use the device and learning from it, if it's a sustained use case like that, you need an NPU from a power perspective. Number one, Hexagon NPU is special because we have built it over time over the last six, seven years that I've been driving it to incrementally be able to do more specialization, better performance on transformer networks, to be able to do much better scalar vector and tensor processing, which really maps very well to how a neural network looks like. And that allows us to be able to do more AI processing than anybody else out there from a performance per watt perspective. And that's the- Yeah, performance per watt is the key metric. I mean, you're absolutely right. You know, sometimes people just talk about tops, but it's not about tops. It's about inferences per second per watt. Tops are cool, but that's cool. I agree. But performance per watt. Okay, so if that happens, if the low cost happens, then you have this distributed model we were kind of talking about before we came on camera. You got the combination of an edge, now device with AI hub, developer platform, and you got the centralized, say core cloud and more on-premise, whether it's a GPU cluster or whatever, big clustered system. What is that, how are we in the progress of that distributed system that you think we are? Where are we in the progress bar of advancement? Are we there? Good enough? Yeah. A lot of experiments going into production. Maybe some people are overhyping that, but when does it go full-scale production? When you start seeing that distributed environment, where are we on that certainly edge?  What this means is that today you can do perhaps the smaller models on the device and then the larger models you basically run in the cloud. That's kind of how it is today. But what I envision is a far greater collaboration, almost like a symbiotic relationship between the cloud and the edge. So for example, what you could do is technique like speculative decoding, where part of the processing is happening on the edge and remaining processing is happening in the cloud. And that really takes off a lot of the burden from the cloud such that you don't have to do as much processing on the cloud. But the consumer still sees the benefits of both and that's where we want. We want the best of both the world there. Since you brought up speculative decoding, I got to ask the question around how you see the interaction of two things. API, connection points, and how foundation models interact with each other. Whether they're LLMs on LLMs or multimodal graphics on graphics, graphics on, there's going to be kind of a generative, maybe as an assembly or compilation in the future. Compiler maybe? I don't know. I mean, I'm a little bit out there in the dream state, but where do you see that going? I think what's happening is people are creating this orchestration layer where the law of this orchestration happens, right? And in this particular context, what you could do is, for example, with speculative decoding, there is a notion of a draft model. You can think of it as a student model, and then there's a target model or a teacher model that's running in the cloud. The teacher model is much larger than the model that's running on the edge. But with the two working in cahoots, you're actually able to do a lot more processing cheaply on the device with the student or the draft model. Pass on that information to the cloud. Cloud does the assessment of, hey, did it do a good job or not? But it does not need to do the full processing on the cloud. So that's where you get the benefits of both the worlds, right? Very, very powerful thing. And then what's happening is the models continue to evolve. Multimodality is something we're actually showing already running on the device. See, the way I see it is in the past, you had something happen on the cloud. Used to take a long time for it to get to the edge. That gap is closing in a very, very fast way. So speculative decoding is like we're back to client server. So the time to do the inferencing and get an outcome is less. It's more efficient when you're not changing the outcome. I mean, the pendulum we always talk about swinging, it is client server for AI in a conceptual way. It's a very good metaphor that you bring because what happened in that case, right? Something started with the server, moved to the cloud. Very similar from what I think will happen with AI. A lot of the inference is starting in the cloud, but we believe we'll come to the edge. It's actually absolutely right on distributed computing. If you think about just other paradigms, storage, data going to say a tactical edge and whether it's war fighting or edge, there's a difference between highly available and high availability. That's right. Which is the data go fetched here or making it available all the time at the edge. So you're getting at this notion of, hey, I'll offload to the cloud, but then I'll bring all my needing availability at the edge where I need to have it right there for low latency touch points. I mean, similar concept.  Absolutely. It's exactly like the heterogeneous compute idea that I talked about. You have head compute within the device with CPU, GPU and NPU. You can think of cloud as an extension of the head compute idea to a great extent, right? And you use the right engine for the right workload at the right time. A lot of chat about the LPU now. We added a new XPU and LPU. What are your thoughts on that?  You think it's an LPU, the language processing unit? You see that as a real opportunity? Do you guys have a solution there? I think it's a massive opportunity for us. I think from a Qualcomm perspective, if you are able to do this language processing and natural language processing on the device, it opens up so many amazing things, right? Just think about it. Let's say you're waiting a AR device. You cannot interact with that device by typing. You got to interact with it by natural language processing by talking with it. And as we make these models smaller and you're able to run it lightly on a glass-like form factor, it completely changes the experience that you can have. And I think that's what we are really looking forward to. And then to add to that, see today what happens with VR. A graphic designer sits there, creates some assets and all of us see the same assets. But what if I could create that asset on the device based on the colors and the textures and the themes that each one of you like? It changes the experience entirely. Yeah, personalized. Exactly. Zia, great to have you on theCUBE. Great insights, again, feature interview to the end of the day. As we have maybe a minute and a half left, I'd love to get your thoughts since you run the roadmap. This is where you got to pick your favorite children. Okay? So, as always, something has to fall off. Someone has to be prioritized. You got, again, the future is the roadmap. The reality is product management. Where are you on the map? Can you share a little bit of color on what you've got focused on? What would you like to see come down sooner? What's out a little further out? Give us a taste of what's on the product roadmap for Qualcomm. Yeah, I mean, I have some favorite children. Let's just go that way. All right, let's hear it. So, basically, the key idea over here has to be, look, it has to add greater value to the consumer. So, I'm really very focused on the use cases that materially move the needle. We can do incremental stuff, but I keep telling my team we have to do and focus on those things that are new use cases. New experiences. And I think this is what AI is great about. It's able to take away the mundane, the routine, and really offload humans to do what they do in an amazing job at innovation, at novelty, right? At new ideas, innovation, right? That's what I want us to be able to do. And then what I'm also very focused on is there are some interesting societal benefits that we can bring. So, I'll talk about two use cases, which I really like, right? Today, you sit in a classroom full of students, and each one of them is getting the academic material delivered to them at the same pace. You know, what if they are using a tablet to get that data, and there's a camera on top, it gets a very good idea of how much of that material a student is absorbing. And what if I could change the pace of delivery of that material, right? One student is getting it better, one student isn't getting it better, I slow down how I'm delivering the material because I have generated AI. So, I'm actually changing the lesson plan on the fly. Personalize. Changes the way people are able to get. I think personalization is one of the, that is a great example. I think so. Everyone think about right, many countries have elderly populations, populations that are aging. Can you imagine that you have a box sitting over there that's actually able to aggregate all the sensor data that's coming in from these sources? And what if it can change the therapy? What if it can change the remedy for that patient or that person without actually having to go to the doctor? Or it can actually predict certain things that might be happening before they happen? I think those are the things that really make generated AI very, very interesting to me, because those are the benefits that we can bring to society as well, instead of just creating certain content. So there's a lot more. Well, there's new business models that come out of it too. There's new experiences. I think that makes the end user go, wow. Yeah. Exactly. That make that wow moment brings the AI to the table rather than just a better mechanism. Yes. You know, just some better software. On that point, I mentioned this in one of our summits and I was talking to somebody today, right? Let's say today you want to book a restaurant reservation. You'll go to Yelp, find the restaurant. You'll go to the map. Is it closed enough or not? You'll go to your calendar and figure out what time works for you and then you'll basically get the reservation. What if you have a virtual assistant sitting on your device that you say, reserve a restaurant for me tomorrow? It basically figures out your calendar. It figures out Yelp.  See, this is the kind of human machine interaction that I think that we can enable in the future. Exactly. You guys have a unique perspective because you have the device form factor, but also the device now changes to anything the user interface with, a TV, a plasma, any kind of interface, whether it's on a plane. Camera.  Absolutely. Watch the sunset. Absolutely. So as you get this interface, the data you're getting is going to be interesting. So the data advantage is huge. Yeah. I think data advantage is huge and it's at multiple different levels, right? The benefit of the data on the device is the personalization aspect. There is a benefit of that data at the telco level. There is a benefit of data at the cloud level. And I think that's the real interesting part. The number of moving parts in this area, like we were discussing, it's a very interesting field. You got new models coming, new model topologies coming. You got new compiler technology coming. You got new hardware technology, new software technology, new tools. It's just, for a technophile, it's a great area. It's a small concept. You're in an amazing position with a highly differentiated strategy. I would ask, how much of that was luck, or was it luck by design? You know, there's a saying. It says, chance favors the prepared mind. And I think that's what has really helped us, right? So we knew, we anticipated these larger models so we're already working on things like quantization. People are running these models in 16-bit float. We're running it in four-bit integer. I can do it far more cheaply. I can make a much larger model fit on the device than what others can do. So we really have prepared for a lot of this and we're ready and we actually are preparing for the next gen now. And I tell you, we're just really getting started. So there's a lot more techniques, models, capabilities, use cases that are in the play. We're going over, as usual, on these great interviews and insights. Final question, final, final question. If you're a product person or an engineer, share your thoughts on how cool of a time is it to be right now in this industry.  Yeah, but I mean, these are really interesting problems, right? I was telling somebody that, you know, you're coming into work and you're actually excited and I'm actually kind of happy to pay me for to do some really interesting stuff. And honestly, I wasn't working. I'd still be looking at a lot of this stuff. Anyways.  That's okay, Zia, you're geeking out. Total alpha geeks here. Zia, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for having me. Yeah, that's great. S C, the vice president of product management and he runs the roadmap at Qualcomm for AI, great stuff. And wrapping up day three here on theCUBE in our CUBE studios in Barcelona and MWC. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante and Chilly Kramer. Thanks for watching. Thank you.


If there is someone whose actions don't jell with your actions, they will actually move out of the environment and there will be others taking over where that tuning in is happening increasingly. And that is, it happens. It's like this unfolding matrix of perfection with all its associations into which you tune in. The more you are in surrender, the more you are in that perfection unfolding. The more you go with the ego, the more you are out of that perfection. We invite you to an Audio Life Satsang with Maharishika Preeti this Sunday. For more information visit maharishika.org


Hey, welcome back everybody. Welcome to the anxious truth. This is episode number 176. If you're watching on video, you got to see my guest air guitaring his way through through the intro. Welcome back to the show. Today we have a special guest in the studio and by studio I mean on Zoom all the way from the UK. My friend, frequent collaborator, respected expert as usual, Josh Refletcher is here. What up, Josh? What up, Drew? How you doing? It's lovely to be back on here. I love your podcast. I love everything that you do and our chats are always fun and productive and well, at least I think they are. Listeners might be like, well, these guys talking about again. No, they seem to get a lot out of it. Everybody seems to enjoy when we do this. So full disclosure on the technical level, we're trying video here because this is going to be a video podcast. So bear with me if things get a little bit wonky, but the content will be good as always. So today we're going to talk about Josh just released a new course. So I want to talk about that course. It is targeted at panic disorder and agoraphobia and other anxiety problems as you guys are well aware. If you listen to this podcast, you know what we're talking about. I want to talk about the course itself specifically, of course, but I really want to talk about why, why that course has to be done. And some of the stuff that's out there that maybe might not be so helpful. So we're going to talk about Josh's course and maybe we'll veer into a little bit of a spicy discussion, which Josh had no idea we were going to do. Let's see how many friends and enemies we can make today. No, I won't be that really. So anyway, tell us about the course. The course is called Stop Fearing Fear with Anxiety Josh. And the impetus behind it was to obviously help people with anxiety, fear, sensations that you're bread and butter stuff through agoraphobia, things like that, and do it in a way that's step by step interactive and you can go back to it using another medium, you know, just adding a visual medium. We're in the age where there's a lot of courses, digital courses being released. And I wanted to release an accessible one that was affordable for people.  So I put it a really affordable rate for everyone. It's quite surprising. People are like, whoa, you're doing that for that? I was like, yeah, because I want people to hear it. That's what we do.  Dean from DLC and many of the mental health community. I want to just put another modicum of information out there for people, particularly for those who fear fear, and I'm very happy with the outcome. Yeah, it's a good title here, fear and fear, because in the end, that is what this is kind of all about being afraid of being afraid. Yeah, definitely.  I personally thought it was like, oh, I've got to do exposures in the supermarket and now I've got to do exposures in the car and then seeing my family. It's like, well, no, actually, you're doing the exposure to one thing and that's your fear fear. Yeah, they're just plot devices in that. And that's why it's really important. You know, this is good. And people need to hear that. And it is a point of, I think, very large scale confusion. So one of the more popular episodes I did on this particular show was called All Your Fears Are One Fear, which I don't know. Go back and search. I don't know which one it was. It was probably a year ago now. And everybody, it was a light bulb moment for so many people that heard that, like, oh no, you're right, it is. But that's good news, right? Because you don't have to learn how to do every task in life again, which some people think you do. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And you couldn't, this is why it's nice to set goals. And I know you're very, I don't know about this. There's no goal that's too small. Because if you're going towards what your actual fear is, it doesn't matter what's happening on externally. So some people might be afraid of having panic attacks on public transport or on a train or a bus. Whereas some people may feel like they're behind because they can't leave their own house. But actually, both exposures are the same. And I agree with you. It's one fear. You're just fearing fear. And so what I've done, and particularly in the course and stuff is just to encourage the, you're all exposing yourself to the same thing. It doesn't matter. Don't compare.  And I can't do that, but they still struggle with their own fears. So it's really important to realize is that, no, and what I encourage on the course is that you celebrate each win. And we do that. It's already celebrated. I took that from you. I should spend more time celebrating the wins of the people that listen to us. And to be honest, it's, it's the reason kind of why I started off doing this. I'm just going to try not to forget doing it. I love it. It's wonderful. My favorite accounts to follow on social media really, I mean, you know, clearly follow people like you and all my friends that I collaborate with. But the people who are actually using the stuff that we talk about, I love those accounts. Those are my favorite accounts. And every once in a while, it's always nice to give them a little shout out and some love. I dig it. I'm definitely going to do that. Yeah. I'm definitely going to do that more. I think, and yeah, you inspire me to do that because it does. It gives you like a warm feeling inside, but also you know what it's like. We know what it's like. Don't we to be there and be like, everything in my mind and body is telling me I shouldn't do this. Everything in my mind and body is saying avoid just in case, the magic word just in case, just in case, just in case, just in case the bad happens, that catastrophic what if happens, that sensation becomes too overwhelming for you to handle. And when you cling on to the words of kind of what we say, and other people say like, no, go towards the uncertainty, you're practicing being anxious, you're practicing go towards it.  That is a wonderful feeling. Yeah, it's a superhero feeling. I always found it. And I know you can relate to this. It's, you know, that moment where while I drove, I actually made the right turn onto root 347 and I drove for 60 seconds and I came back home. And that's such a huge win. And you know, you could tell your family and your friends, but if they don't understand, they don't really understand. So it's really nice to have somebody who does understand say, oh, no, no, I know what a huge win that is because I get that. So that's, that's so important. And I mean, one of the modules in Stop Fearing Fear is compassion.  But compassion is one of the modules in the sense that there's, I know so many people that see exposure as robotic. So they believe in the formula of exposure, which is if I put myself in a scary position, I will then overcome anxiety and that's where people get stuck. I've been doing my exposures all week and nothing's working. Yeah, because these people tend to go, they're brave enough to go set off and they're courageous enough to put themselves in a scary situation. But then what happens is that they're then disappointed that they didn't meet their own expectations for recovery or success. And therefore walk home with their head slumped, the slumps disappointed in themselves. And they start to be self critical. Whereas compassion is the ultimate ingredient. It's like, if you can get on board with how fun it is. So someone actually said this morning, I was going to share it with you. Someone said this morning, and I know you're like this because I can, oh my God, like since I started encouraging myself and I'm getting encouragement from people and I've been compassionate, I actually look forward to doing my exposure. And I was like, boom, that's it. That's the hill. Once you're over that hill, see you later. That's how you know that that shift has sort of happened. And I hear people talk about that all the time, like, oh, I'm almost, I think I might be a little bit addicted to my exposures and like, okay, we have to be careful about exposures becoming pulsive. But that's a great thing to do, right? When you get to that point where it's like, oh no, I really, I relish these experiences because they know they're making me better. It's, that's when the expectations begin to align with what the goals really are. And it's interesting because I would get full credit to our friend Kimberly for teaching me what compassion really meant. When I wrote the anxious truth and I said this to her, when I wrote an anxiety story, which was my own story, I literally wrote like, there was no self compassion. And in retrospect, though, I wish I could erase that from the thousands of copies that are out there because I just meant that I wasn't going to let myself off the hook, but I've learned since that yet, celebrating your victories really helps put your expectations in alignment with where they should be for how this process goes. It's also like, it's an indication of where your self-esteem is at as well. It's if you, the post analysis of your recovery or your exposures or whatever it is you're doing, it's how you speak to yourself after it is so important to build to the next step. I mean, the first three modules and stop fearing fear is about reframing the words to a more compassionate way. And I keep telling people, no, this is the problem. You know, I have an overly sensitized nervous system and I am afraid of these adrenaline rushes rather than I can't control my panic attacks. So they mean the same thing, but it's so encouraging to, it's so powerful, the semantics and the words that you use to describe what's going on, you know, to the point where even when I did it and I described my own panic disorder here is when I said, life got too stressful for me and my brain decided, the old anxious part of my brain got confused and started to become overprotective of me. I need to now work hard and compassionately to turn that part of my brain off. This isn't my fault. It's just responding to what, how I was dealing with life at the time. Whereas, oh my God, I'm a warrior. I'm overthinker. Listen, that ain't going to help. No, it's not. And it's not being very nice to yourself. That's true. Yeah. So I do like that stuff, you know, and that's what is unique about the course as well because there's some other courses out there by people who don't really understand compassion. Well, I think, you know, this is good. And we get into this a little bit. So why is the course needed? And by the way, let me just echo that whole, when I wrote the anxious truth, I wrote that this is really a reactions problem more than anything else, right? So change your reaction before, during and after. And after is the story that you tell after the experience. So you're going to run back into your Facebook group or your home or your friends and say, that was terrible. I panicked. I thought I was going to pass out. I almost passed out. I almost died. My heart was racing. That's, that's not, you know, you're not really being very kind to yourself because you're basically saying that the way you felt as a failure. Whereas for me, a huge shift became, I could acknowledge that I felt all those things, but really the story ended with, well, I just really did a hard thing to help retrain my brain. And I did it. Look, I did it. And I can do it again tomorrow. And that became really a story after the exposure and it had to end there and things began to really snowball and change for the better for me when I did that. Perfect. You're right. I like that before, during and after. It's the after where people can, can, can for the lesson is. Yeah. Yeah. Because and also where the brain, what the brain remembers before it sleeps. Yeah. You know, so it'll remember that exposure for the day.   But there's not a lot of times.   And then you go to sleep on it. Oh, it's all right. I've done enough today. I'll practice it some more tomorrow. And you pick the guitar up two days later and you're suddenly playing back. Absolutely. How am I, how am I doing this? I'm not even played. It's because you went to bed and the brain started to piece together actually. That was some good practice for today. Well done, et cetera. Yeah. So if you've got anxiety and then you're constantly comparing yourself after exposure. Well, yeah, I went to the park and I was brave, but three years ago I could fly around the world and sort of pathetic.  It almost like panic disorder for me in agriphobia forced me to discover an element of self compassion in me that was always there. But I pushed down and particularly as a guy, it's not necessarily gendered, but as a guy, I think the more sensitive language is more socially taboo. And I was like, no, once I realized how powerful it was, I'm like, this is really important and everyone deserves it. Yeah.  How we speak about it is also very important because in the end, the person who hears it most of anyone else is us when we speak. We hear our own words.  Anybody can read a Claire Weeks book and create, you know, four hours of video and charge money for it. So and they're out there, I get that. But the practical application of those concepts starts to get a little bit tricky where you really have to pay attention to the individual nuances and you have to really understand what it's like to teach what exposure is. That's that's not a mystery. But what do you think is the differentiating factor for you? The differentiating the differentiating factor with what I've done was start fearing fear is throughout it all, there's no failure. I think a lot of these courses particularly constructed by people that go in with it with the wrong intentions. They will. It's usually people just hungry greedy people who want loads of money, you know, some of these people charge three grand for these courses.  But anyway, the biggest danger I find about those courses is that there's this dichotomy of success that's created where if you're not getting better, it's because you're not following my advice. And I find that quite dangerous. So what I do in mind is like, no, actually, if you're not getting better, I want to know what I didn't include. I want you to let me know. I want you to know that every improvement is success. It's if you're not getting better, it's not something is not down to that you've not done. It's down to something that I've not taught properly.  Thankfully, I didn't miss out anything massive. But those will inform revisions and down the road. Yeah, definitely. And it's a bit like your group which I love it's that cold kind of it's just those reminders of where you can be. But kind reminders where we're all like, you know, we don't need the way this is the way out. And let's all celebrate and encourage each other on the way out. And that's really nice. And that's the difference. And that's why I put out such a low price like a low price point for a course as well because I want everyone to have a go at it and give me feedback if you need to, you know, like even if it's change your haircut or get a wash or whatever. Please don't and nobody comment on Josh's hair. It's a sensitive moment. I even like the way you name the course because stop fearing fear is a very specific and not grandiose thing because I think a lot of the courses that we see out there, they immediately go.  But that's such a tough bird. And that's a hard thing to hand somebody who's taking a course like a low price and like while that's an inspired might be an inspiring image, you really broke it down to the smallest like, hey, this is really what this is. And you know what, if you wind up on the top of the mountain, great. But if you wind up just being able to drop your children off at school, then that's also a huge win. So bringing it right down to the nitty gritty of just stop fearing your fear. This is what we're going to learn how to do here.  And I know that you're with me on this hand on heart. I'm no more impressed with someone who can climb a mountain and that then some who's someone's aim was to go and visit their. Their mom in another state. Yeah, like that. I am more. It's I get more, not even more dry, I get the same joy from people walking to the end of their street or around the block that terrified them as someone who for a work, I mean, it's the same joy. It's like, wow, did that scare you? And you did it? Wow, that's amazing. And genuinely, I'm not just saying that. I think it's really, really satisfying. You must hear that in your group of stuff as well, Drew. Oh, all the time. I was gonna ask, what would your image be? What would your, like, for me when I was in the midst of panic, what was the image of the equivalent of me being on top of a mountain with panic disorder would be in Asda, which is Walmart. And I'd be shaking in the frozen poultry aisle going. That's my image on top of the mountain, because that's the scariest thing I did in my recovery. What would your image be? That's fair. I think mine, I might have had to one and we'll go back to the hair thing because it matters to both of us. Neither of us is gonna win any awards for our hair. So for me, it was probably two images.  That would be a huge win. That was a hard, hard, hard thing to do and probably pictures from back then would prove that. And the other one would be just sitting on my sofa. As crazy as it sounds, I aspire to be able to sit on my sofa in the house alone. So I know for a lot of people listening to us sitting on the sofa is a problem because they're agoraphobic and severely restricted by their panic attacks. But all I wanted to do is be able to be home alone for half hour and not be terrified. So those aren't very inspiring images. Some dude sitting alone at his house and some guys, you know, sitting there getting his haircut but they matter. They really mattered to me. Just like your tiny goals, being able to go to your cousin's wedding, you know, two towns away and stay there for three hours. That's a huge deal. That is worthy of end of celebration when you get to that point. So we should do that. Massive, yeah. There was a huge one the other day. People, I managed to get public transport for the first time in 20 years. So I'm like, that's great. You know, and they credited you and our recovery rooms and everything like that. And just basically it's our message to different modicums, isn't it? And I think when she was doing the course, she thought, you know what? I'm going to take everything I've learned from all you guys and I'm going to go and do it. And yeah, everyone's celebrating. I think she was a bit nervous to be like, oh, I got on the bus. I was like, that's amazing. One of my was on the bus. One of my first exposures was on the bus. I remember just sitting there like. Just swaying back and forth. Like, I was like, no, I'm going to tolerate this. We're not just going to count down till the bus stops or until I can get off. I'm going to I can live on this bus if I wanted to. Mentally, this bus is now my home and I'm never going to leave it. Oh, I love that so much because so many of the times you can relate. I know you can relate to this.   But I can tolerate it if it is for it not to be the rest of your life. So it's the paradox. It's the paradox of recovery. It is so paradoxical. And that's hard for people to hear when you say that sort of stuff, like, but what if it never goes away? Well, you'll handle it if it never goes away. And when you can truly get to that point, then you have a much higher probability of it actually going away over time. But when you say this bus, I'm going to make this bus my home as opposed to like setting the timer on my watch and just waiting, OK, four more, four more stops, three more stops. I know I can be on this bus indefinitely if I needed to. Powerful message, very powerful. Yeah, and it's important. I didn't enjoy the bus. No, the aim isn't to sit there and be happy and think about sunshine and rainbows. It was just be willing and you're absolutely right. It's the willingness of it. It's like once I was willing to be anxious and I didn't care where it happened. Yeah, the paradox of recovery is then it goes away because you're literally teaching the threat response. You don't fear it anymore. So it has to be a belief. And all a relapse means is you've temporarily lost the ability to tolerate your not the ability. You've temporarily lost your confidence in your ability to tolerate your sensations. That's all a relapse means. So when people go, oh, it's back, which is another module, it's back. There are anxieties back. I thought I could say no, the anxiety isn't back. What happened was that you've temporarily lost your confidence in your ability to tolerate it. And that's usually because you've got stress in your life. Usually you've probably moved house, broken up with your partner. There's a political election. There's you've probably been a bit ill work uncertainty. And then, yeah, that that confidence gets challenged, but it's okay. You can just be like, I anticipated this. And that's where I always encourage people to develop their metacognitive awareness. For me, even I do this now, if I've got an interview coming up or whatever or some big things coming up, some stressful stuff, what I'll do is I'll say, right, I'm going to make a note of that because I'm going to get intrusive thoughts. Because I struggled a lot with OCDM. So I know all that stress will lead to potentially disturbing intrusive thoughts. So I'll be like, no. And then when they do come in, I'm like, ah, so are you coming? So are you coming? Yeah, I was ready for it. I think that's ready for you. When our resiliency is a little bit low because I love your stress drug analogy, right? So when that's kind of full, we just have no room to put things. I think we're more likely to fall into those bad habits. I like to think of the setback thing is, number one, if you declare a setback, there's actually a bit of good news in there, believe it or not, because it means that you've been doing in your estimation better, which, okay, we might argue the mechanics of that because I know you say all the time, like, well, not panicking, tell me something more interesting than that. Okay, I didn't panic today. Great, but you got to go and practice panicking. So I get that part.  And then when it sort of comes back, it's a reminder of like, oh, that's right, I have to do this thing again. So I think there's a good indicator for somebody that says, I've been doing so well, but now it's back.  Or it's an adjustment that says, well, the progress was kind of more that you inched your way into life and engineered a panic-free exposures. But even that realization is helpful, right? Because then you can adjust and say, oh, no problem. I have to adjust, change course a little bit. No problem. There's always something to learn. So I liked that you addressed that too. It's back. Yeah, it's back, yeah. And I know I've had that. I remember for years, I wrote my first book and I got into the state of, oh, yeah, I know it. I know the answers. And something happened in life. It was really kind of stressful and the jug filled up. And then, yeah, like, oof, it hit me. It's relapsed, it's back. And then obviously it's anxiety. It starts every thought of what if, like, what if there's something you missed? What if you don't, what if you now don't know? What if this time it's anxiety plus more, which is what I hear. What if it's anxiety and something else? Also just a quick note, like, I've been traumatized a lot in my life, but I don't have PTSD. So I had lots of therapists and people saying, well, we need to get to the root of the trauma. And I'm like, and then I started going down this rumination hole, keeping me in the cycle there. And actually all I was doing was seeking empty reassurance that I wasn't broken. I wasn't broken. I was just anxious. I just relapsed again. But it was masked. And that's why the definition will always be, I've temporarily lost my confidence in my ability to tolerate not only anxiety, but the uncertainty and recovery is that maintaining your confidence in the ability to lean into uncertainty. Which comes, I think through just those of those repeated experiences and varied experiences. You know, the more varied your experiences, I like to use the more portable, durable and portable. So the more experience you have, the more durable your recovery comes and the more portable it becomes across multiple contexts. So you want a very wide and deep recovery is what happens with repetition and dedication and repeated varied experiences. So it's a long road to home, man. Like even for a lot of us, it takes months and months or there may be elements of that that might take years because there are things you just don't have to do. The first time I had to fly after many years, I just had no reason to fly was a part of my recovery. Even though I would have told you I'd been recovered for five or six years by then. Well, no, maybe not, you know, not fully. And I had to meet that challenge and go through some scary stuff. But, you know, it's all doable. It's all doable. And I love how you kind of broke it down. Like, well, no, it's getting into the nitty gritty. This is about slogging through the mud a little bit and then celebrating when you get to wash yourself off, but then you get back in the mud again and sooner or later, you're not so muddy, so. Yeah, I like that, good analogy. You're good with the analogies, aren't you? I'm the analogy guy, analogy kingpin. That's what I'm gonna, that's a kingpin status. Because imagine you with your family. No, another analogy. Just tell me, please, please stop. Oh, God. Yeah, a little bit. They just don't pay attention at this point.    Yeah, that's, there's no, there's no pain in mind to what dad's doing over there. So it's, yeah. Yeah, I care that like with my friends and family, it's like, oh, your friends and family must be so lucky to have you. They wouldn't come to me if they're in peril. They can't stab me. There is no shot. I cannot help it any of y'all, but nobody's asking for it. I get that. That's a good point, though. Like, you know, we can touch on that for 30 seconds or so. You couldn't anyway, even as an author, a recognized expert, somebody with a lot of social cloud, you know, your credentials, your qualifications, you couldn't treat your family and friends anyway. So it's important to recognize where your help can come from.  Yeah, dual relationships don't work not only in the therapy room, but in general. I mean, friends that end up living together or working together or going to business together. It's a dual relationship. Things will break down. You've got to be really quite careful about that. It's a bit different when you meet people professionally and the dynamic is built upon that professional relationship first, but when you're two friends that know each other personally, intimately on from different playing fields, whatever, and then you try and form a new dynamic and stuff, it's it's difficult, I think. Even so, now I was thinking I had a friend who was back on the topic of hair again. It was a barber and obviously I used to I used to go in and he used to give me like discounted haircuts and stuff. And I don't I wouldn't mind paying full price, but he was just felt so awkward about having to say, right, no, you have to pay full price now. And and the awkwardness there of the dual relationship that existed just from giving me a 10 minute haircut, you know, because of because of what can happen. So can imagine trying to do that in therapy now. Just impossible really hard. And I think it's also why your partner, your family, your close, your best friend forever can't really be the person who shepherds you through your recovery. They could certainly be cheerleaders and be supportive.  And that's why let's bring let's bring it back around here because we got to be doing that. That's why courses like Josh's or books like you and I have written and these podcasts and all that stuff. That's why they're important and therapy, professional, actual qualified help. So yeah, excellent. Yeah, you've taken an interest in that. I've taken a minor interest in that. Yes. So I'm excited. That's going to be fun. I'd have absolutely loved it if I walked in day one, panic disorder. I feel like a realisation, dissociation. I'm like, I think I'm losing my mind. My doctor's just told me looks more frightened than I do. I'm constantly scanning, obsessing how I feel. Can't eat, can't sleep, panicking wave after wave of panic and anxiety attacks, can't go to work. I walk in and my therapist is huge and you said, well, this is what's happening. Honestly, it has saved me a lot of work. Yeah, it really would have, right? So I get that. Well, at some point, I will hopefully have the chance to do that. So we will see. And then you stop playing the guitar and it triggers everything again. Oh, God. Yeah, that's what I said. There is no if you want to talk about trauma, listening to me, not enough therapy in the world to get you past that. Anyway, I will make sure that all the links for the course and everything are on my website for this, which would be at the anxious treat dot com slash one seven six if you want all the links. But how can people get get to the course and check you out? You can go to the if you want to sneak peek it. This website is live. I've not announced it yet. It's a school of anxiety dot com. I'm trying to steal what James Clear did with his habit school and completely plagiarise his idea. But legally, if you're listening, if you're listening, James Clear, it's all legal. Yeah, it's a school of anxiety dot com. And this is just everything on there. But yeah, I mean, I'm I'm pretty excited for it. And I really appreciate you having me on, Drew. I think it's a really good thing, a really kind thing for you to do any time. Always happy to support. And it's a good thing and it's useful. So I will tell everybody, go check it out. I'm watching the course and it's it's really good. It's just really good. It's very, very helpful. So I would take it, you know, if I needed it, I would certainly take it. So there you go. Oh, good. Anyway, my friend, thank you for coming on.  But I thank you for coming on. I appreciate it's always going to make you laugh during the outro. You could try. I'm just going to cover my eyes so that I can't see it. But anyway, guys, thanks for coming by. You can go to the anxious treat dot com slash one seven six. That will all Josh's links for the course and everything. He's making funny faces at me. He's dancing as everything is right there. And I will leave you as always with asking a favor, which is if you are listening on iTunes or some platform that lets you rate or review the podcast and leave us five stars because damn it, we're worth it. Aren't we, Josh? Five. Absolutely. Five full stars. Oh, yes. Yeah, I gave you a podcast. Five stars before I met you. Excellent, man. That's what I appreciate. Yeah, so five stars if you can rate a review and then write a quick couple of sentences about why you dig the podcast because it helps other people find it and then we can help even more people, which is great. And I will leave you as always with Afterglow by my buddy, Ben Drake, musician from the UK, Josh's neighborhood. If you want to find Ben, you can find him at Ben Drake music dot com. So enjoy it. Thanks for coming by. See you guys next week. This is where your story begins. You've got the feeling that you're gonna.


Hey everyone, welcome back to figure fantasies today. We're going to go over hot pursuit again and Clearing Joker of spades with three stars. So without further ado here is your team Okay, so we'll start off with this team. So this team Average clears for this one is going to be between 27 seconds and 30 seconds. So I did a lot of Runs already just to make sure that you guys won't have a hard time clearing this. So as you can see you only need one Millie then the rest would be healers and buffers as well. Then one Militarist at the back, which is Vazir win. So we're at 46 seconds and Times five already. So fast clear for this one. Hopefully you guys won't have a hard time repeating the stage So far, this is the most stable lineup that I've seen that can really Clear it as early as possible. So There you go Okay, guys. So so far that this is the most stable lineup that I have So hopefully you guys can clear this with this lineup. So thank you very much guys for staying this far So hope you guys click that bell icon and consider subscribing. Thank you very much. Stay safe This is the warden and I'm out of here


Hey guys, welcome to SS Unity app, Susan Decide and today we are going to see about the pipeline dependency. So what is the pipeline dependency and where we can use this in the real time environment. So first you have to understand the pipeline dependency. So pipeline dependencies are mainly four types. So first is the success, second is the failure, third is the completion, fourth is the escape. So these four type of their dependencies are available inside the pipeline. So as we can see in this blue diagram, so here like the task A, if this is executed successfully, then we want to execute the task C. And if task C is not executed, then we want to execute the task F. Similarly, once task A is completed, then immediately task E will start execution. And if task A is completed with the failure, then task D will be start executing. So you have to understand the completion of the task A, the task E will be executed, either it will be completed with the success or failure. So always task E will be executing. So this is the first case. In the second case, if task A got failed, on that case task D will be executed and task F will be executed. And if your task A is executed with success, then only task C will be executed. So let us understand this in the real time. So go to the browser and we will try to see there. So here let me try to create a new pipeline. Let me call this pipeline as pipeline dependency. Now, so here first I want to use the if condition. So as we have already seen the if condition in the previous videos, so if you haven't watched that video, so I strongly recommend to watch that video before going forward. So inside the activity, I'm not going to do anything. I'm just going to write this as true. So it will be always true and will be executing this. That's it. So let me try to drag and drop three if condition. And here, let me put true in all these. So like this is true, similarly for this one and similarly for this one. Here, here we can see this plus symbol and this arrow. So once we click on this, then we can see the pipeline dependency options. So success, failure, completion and skip. So success is always here. So let me add the failure as well at the completion. So if this will be completed with success, then we want to execute the if condition two. Similarly, if this is fail, then we want to execute the if condition three. And once everything is completed, then we want to execute the if condition four. So this is the condition I have added here. Now, in this case, we have not set up for the skipped one. So let me try to drag and drop one more if condition. And this if condition will be added from this if condition three. So let me click on this plus symbol and add the skipped one and put it here like this. So now we have set all these. And in the last one, let me put the expression as true because we have not said anything here. Now, what will be happening in this case? Your first if condition will be executed with success. So this will be executed. And after that, your condition two will be executed. And condition if will be executed. So let me try to debug and we'll see. So as we can see, it is executed. So as per the condition, your if condition one is executed with success. So that's why if condition two is executed. Similarly, for the if condition four, once if condition one is completed, either with the success or failure, it will be executed. So that is executed. If your condition three is not executed, then your condition five will be executed that you can see here. Now, let me try to add a custom error here. So that error might be one equals to one. So it will be reflecting an error. So let me try to debug it now. So your first if condition will be failed. So as we can see, it is failed. So your failure will be executed. So that we can see if condition three is executed. And if condition four is executed, because your if condition one is executed with the failure, as I told you, either it is executed with success or failure. So if condition four will always executed. And here we can see the if condition five is not executed because if condition three is executed here. So that's why five is not executed. So this is all about the pipeline dependency. So thank you so much for watching this video. If you really like this video, please subscribe our channel to get many more videos. Don't forget to press the bell icon to get the notification of our newly uploaded videos. See you in the next video.


Welcome to ToffeeTV, it is the match preview, Nottingham Forest vs Everton, in a massive game now isn't it, to become a massive game, I know it would have been a big game anyway but again it is another huge game, Everton's first away game since we were given our ten point deduction, but obviously playing a team that a couple weeks ago, even if we still had the ten points we'd be looking at this game going, great opportunity to get above one of the teams around us, but now you look at these games and you just think to yourself, these are the ones that we've got to start getting points off, and before, basically before, and these were the games we were getting something out of, so it would be interesting for us to see if we keep going with that, we're still doing the good things away from home that have been getting us the points and the wins. Yeah, I mean the players and the manager would be hopefully working on that basis, like the manager said in his press conference park, the ten point thing, put it to one side, forget about the lead table for now, think about the form you're in, I think I've had one more game for us this season or if they haven't done the same as them, so we know where we should be really in the lead table and that gives us the opportunity to close some points back on these now then because we were around them or just above them, they're a strong side of home, we know that but they did lose last weekend against Brighton, so we've got to use that to our advantage and we have been decent away under Shaun and Dyche, we're better away than we are at home, currently, go and do it, big game, go and get a result in it because ultimately for the players and the manager, it's about winning games with footy. Yeah, I think obviously with it being an away game, a lot of that emotion is going to be or has to be put to the side, obviously last Sunday was very emotive at Goodison Park, obviously the fans showed the feelings, we all showed our feelings and that has to be put to one side, now there is a game of football where no one cares, no one cares about us losing ten points, seems like for us to be made up, makes their life a bit more comfortable for the rest of the season, these are the ones where we've got to see that real reaction, is it affecting players, did last Sunday affect players, well that's gone now, everything plays and I've got to knuckle down and as you just said, they show exactly what they've been showing this season, getting into games early, staying into in the games away from home, hopefully coming out with the three points in, for us yet it's not an easy place to go, I think the last home win was against Aston Villa who obviously have been in great form, they've only got three home wins this season, I mean it's obviously more than we've got at home but they've only got three home wins, obviously last season it was what kept them up and we've just got to go there haven't we and put the pressure on them, make them feel like they're in a little bit of a fight, like they're in a little bit of trouble because as I said I think they've only won one game since September and that was against Villa, lost Brighton recently, Luton-Claude, back at 2-2 draw, which at the time I was fuming about and the week after I wasn't fuming about it and now I'm fuming again about it, that's how horrible this season's been in the last couple of weeks but these are the games we've got to win these games haven't we, we've got to make sure we don't lose these games because you know without having to go at your own dice, apart from the Arsenal game, his first game and the Brighton game await, we haven't done too well, we've been comfortably beaten by most of the teams who are in and around the top six, it's these games that we've shown obviously more in and these are the games where we we've got to be getting the points and finding those wins that we hope will get us away from where we shouldn't be really. Yeah I mean these are the opportunities like I said in general since the managers come in, we've been quite solid away from home, we've looked good, we've done well this season haven't we, one at Brentford, you know one at West Ham, a couple of real solid performances in those games, one at Crystal Palace, you know so we've done quite well particularly late, one at Villa in the Cup, so we have gone away and given a decent account of ourselves, obviously this was a fixture last season, we should have won on the day at the City Ground, we drew 2-2 but we should have put the games to bed and we didn't and obviously they scored a late equaliser but it will be a tough game, they're a great crowd, they're solid at home but they're not in great form in that and obviously you know they've lost I won't need to forward, I haven't used, there was a big threat and big powerful strike, got Chris Wood as well of course, he's another one but for Everton we've just got to go and dig in like we did at the Palace but play with that same freedom we played, we were playing with a little bit more freedom of late which is why we were winning games, I think we were quite tense against United because of the emotion, whatever and I've just said it before and the risk of repeating myself, we have somehow just got to forget about the league, forget about the 10 points, keep yourself in that mindset that you're 13th, 14th and play with that freedom and trying to catch teams above you, I don't know whether you can but that's what you have the right for because that's what we were doing and who knows if we get a few of those points back it'll help even further but this is a chance to reduce the points between Forrest and Everton, big game, tough game but is it winnable absolutely? Yeah I mean it's a mindset you can't really and a lot of players won't understand and obviously fans don't understand that either if there aren't too many plays you can say to well you were heading towards mid table and the next week you weren't you were in the bottom three there's not many plays you can speak to and go well how do you understand that mindset because not many have been in that in that position so it must be really difficult for them it's really easy isn't it to say I'll just keep doing what you're doing forget about where you are in the league but they can't because they're human beings it is their job and suddenly extra pressure is being put on them so I think it's it's it's easy for us to say that isn't it you know just do what you've been doing but when the added pressure and the added pressure comes from the outside obviously you know this game's half five kickoff on on TV you know that's all we're going to be talking about that's all that's all we we already know we've seen the press conference with your advice in the first question is oh what about these possibilities of extra points to deduction and you're like well it's a bit of a it's not a not in story it's a bit of a well that could affect anybody but you've thrown on our toes and suddenly the scene you know this isn't this this isn't going away is it it's not going away the questions aren't going to go away until certainly till um we have the appeal and then we'd have to wait for the new books to go through as well so it's it's it just feels like it's hanging there all the time it's in the back of it's in the back of my mind all the time and I'm sure as a player it'll be difficult as well but I suppose you just got to switch off on that haven't you yeah but they can do something about it we can't all weekend they was watching and back them and worry about it all day day the ones in the middle of it they can affect it and affect it by going and winning the game you know they'd have taken the chances on Sunday against United they'd have won the game it could have been three one up a half time a good decision and that was it that's when the game changed he came out second half didn't well he didn't really come out second half and before they knew it they were two nailed down because of a penalty decision well we've got to go to the weekend and when we get those opportunities we've got to take them we take them chances at the weekend and win the game they've done their bit you know the lawyers and everything else will have to do their bit on the appeal but all the players and the manager can do is focus on what's in front of them so your diet is your manager that doesn't get too low and he doesn't get too high and I imagine that has been the mantra I think it's fine certainly this week United game is slightly different there was a lot of anger emotion around that game it might have been difficult for the players to I don't know I don't really want to give them an excuse because I still think they could they performed well enough in the first half to get something out of the game and they would be low par second half and got punished for it so this one we've just got to be on it the fans will be on it and they've just got to see an opportunity for a team that even though all of a sudden now we're second to bottom we've won more games than the bottom three you know the bottom three the bottom four put together so all the shame has remounted them so we've got it in our mind setting well we're actually closer to nottingham forest than we are to Burnley because of the wins the way we were playing I mean if we do that and chase the game but at this rate the ten points are being suspended you'd be going into this game thinking we can beat these hmm chance to move away even further from them if not get a draw will the same applies yeah if you can't win don't lose yeah keep just chipping away at those you know keep staying in such but I think the manager and the coaching staff will be saying this is an opportunity these aren't flying right now and this is an opportunity to maybe catch them yeah no absolutely absolutely right let's have a little look at it some of the stats ahead of this game this saturday the second of december 5 30 p.m. everton will play nottingham forest at the city ground in nottingham this will be digest second trip to the city grounds everton manager with the previous meeting taken place in march of this year ending in a 2-2 draw with goals from the corey and demyre gray for everton and a brace from current spurs forward brennan johnson in the premier league everton have met nottingham forest 12 times with six games ending in a win for the toffees four wins for forest and two draws 50% of everton wins against forest have been at city ground although the last time everton won there was september 1998 a 2-0 win with two goals from duncan furguson this season everton have won four games drawn to and lost seven they currently sit 19th after a 10 point deduction nottingham forest currently sit 15th three wins four draws and six losses nottingham forest top scorer this season so far is tywo amoni with four goals although he is currently out injured with a groin injury everton's top scorer in the premier league is abdelaide acori with four goals who again scored the last time the two teams met in the premier league the two teams have only met twice since 1999 and both games have ended in a draw the goal um as we mentioned you know i'd mentioned earlier they are without the top goal scorer but that front three does look does look obviously a bit of a threat doesn't it obviously you've got um gibbs white on one side and you've got obviously anti-alangar on the other side the player that we obviously look to get in me as well do you think um do you think that might be one of those players where in in the future we look at and go we missed out on one there because he has he's done all right this season hasn't he um he's done all right and obviously his stats showed that he's an improving player and obviously he's gone there from manchester united and looks like he's got something to prove yeah well we wanted him didn't he and he chose forest over everton because i think at the end of the day we were a little bit unsettled i think they wanted to bring him in and you look at his stats day you know 13 games three goals and next year 1.35 so he is over performing from that your three assists and his expected assists i think something like 1.55 or something like that um so he's over performing on both his goals and you can see his heat map there his goals and his assists but he's he's fast and that's what the manager wanted to bring in as well so that'll certainly kevin fello wanted that and that would give us a bit of balance on both sides a bit of pitch but he is playing off the left for forest and you know we've already got two that like to play out there and a third one who plays on the right who doesn't mind playing on the left so we've brought him in we've had like four players for the left and on on the right but he's quick and he's direct and we'll have to look out for him and it'll be interesting to see who the manager chooses at right back because obviously as he owns having a little bit of an up and down time if i'm being kind to him at the moment sheaim is calling is available for this one he's trained all week he was sub against united knight and paterson of course played with scotland and came off the bench last week late on last week the manager was last to bar him in his press conference and basically just said he's got to keep doing what he's doing he's the future so maybe maybe that's where the change will come maybe sheaim is calling and they'll come in at right back but then you do have to look around nail angers pace but then colman generally does well when he's up against the winger he just has to concentrate on because i don't see him putting paterson in even though paterson probably yeah i do i do find yeah i i do find it a little bit strange i just i understand the manager's trying to get it trying to get us into a place where it's not there's a little bit of experience there's a little bit of youth and there's a little bit in the middle but i just looked at that last young situation and this we see some get you're right he is up and down some games he's been i'm in kiston palace he was fine there was no issues but when he's playing against pace you can order you can order you write the script you really can't order you like this he's lost he's lost that bit it's the reaction time in the reaction time yeah it's up there not down there it's it's and you see that one like ganacheo last week when he skipped when he skipped past them and he just he doesn't have any other clue what to do but just boot the player whereas i don't think sheaim is like you mentioned there i don't think sheaim is does that i think sheaim is getting himself in a better position because he knows he hasn't got the pace to react in a certain way so he almost shapes in a certain way whereas actually young might still think he's got that base the pace and he might have that base the pace and that might be great when you're on a bit of grass and it's like me versus you and it's a straight but it's that reaction of when someone does something a little bit tricky and that's my worry again is that we saw them get sent off against manchester against the pulsar we saw them give away a penalty against manchester he could have been off couldn't he again that reaction time and i just i look at that and think there's got to be times in the games where the manager has to look at the situation a little bit earlier i thought last sunday should have gone off if not half time he should have just gone off the minute he gave the penalty away and just said right we're too near down we need to change this for us and let's get paterson on to start getting up and down and take a few more risks and i do there is always that thing when you when you have managers and you think we're at the blind spots and and all this and all managers do have blind spots they pick players that you don't want them to pick and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but i do also think there's this games where the manager has to have a little look at it and think is this the game for him will it will we get away with that in this game of course he's on four yellows as well actually young so if he was to pick up a yellow in this game then obviously he'd miss the new castle game so you've got to make that change um but it's going to be it's going to be an interesting one let's just have a look at the rest of the evident team from last sunday as well um a little bit of a doubt over domino carvalhoom for this game obviously we know on that it's not going to be biff for this game so beto do we maybe if there's any kind of doubt over domino carvalhoom do we look to put beto in the manager said he's 30 someone fell on his knee the day before the game last week and they weren't sure so they left them out to precaution obviously with a lot of games do you think this is a game that you might go let's just leave dom it's freezing cold that does not help the muscles it's freezing cold um maybe give beto a start because he's he's ready to go okay maybe has some shown loads yeah coming off the bench but maybe this is a game you go no i'd be better to mix it up with with all these games coming up well if there's a doubt over dom then you can't play him can you just we've not done it without nana yeah the minute you've i mean the still scratch me had why nana played against bernie i still can't understand for the life of me and then he missed the writing game at home which was a very winnable game and he wasn't available because he was feeling it before the bernie game and that was a cup game which the dresser garner gave you the play then well hey how it's been done so therefore for this one with domino carvalhoom i understand why they've made and trained inside it's absolutely yeah absolutely and therefore what's the point if it's feeling tight and it might be you know they'll obviously make that decision as close to kickoff as possible but if there's any doubt we have got so many games coming up play beto and have chimity on the bench chimity's scoring goals for portigone the 20s came on look lively and she might have for whatever he was on 10 minutes a show last week play beto for 75 minutes see how you're getting if he's all right great if he's looking nached through chimity on for the last 15 still getting a 6.4 inch striker yeah do you know it's not the same as dom and dom's flying he's a real handful but dom hasn't really been on it the last few games for whatever reason you know he came back in a blaze of glory scoring goals he was playing nearly well didn't have a great game against crystal palace away you know he didn't do anything wrong he wasn't in the game much isolated isolated barely at home he was all right but again that was a game i thought beto should have started and manchester united at the weekend he faded from the game totally and he did second after yeah he didn't do anything so now make sure that his muscles are right because we've got two big home games in three three or four days but this is a big game don't get me wrong but we need everyone who's fitting ready to go so if there's any doubt with dom i'd just throw better throw better win and take you from there yeah i think yeah that's what he's bought for wasn't yeah exactly and you've got we've got game on thursday game on the sunday you know there's gonna be a lot of there's a lot of games coming up what you don't want is to hear the horrible sort of thing oh it's gonna be missing for two weeks two weeks in december it's not like two weeks any other time you know you could be talking four games five games if it's if it's like december so what a time for beto to to get a beto brace no beto go no beto time there isn't get his first premier league goals in a win of forest what a what a great day that would be yeah there you go now it's um yeah it's a bit it's obviously a big game and a bit like you said ever and i've got to stop just bring in that 10 points down as fast as possible that's the the goal now is we've got games the tough but every game your opportunity to you know wear away at that chip away we've got to look at looting and go right you're the next in line we're coming after you and start it's five points now now okay they've got they'll have game weeks where it's good and weeks where it's bad won't it i think i think it's looting we've got a couple of difficult games coming up we've got to make sure we get positive results so that we're next so we can get either next to looting or ahead of looting all of a sudden they look and go and they add 10 points taking off them in the stiller but that's a meant mentally that's a real physical like a real tough battle to get over it's no good if we keep the wheeler games pass us by without getting pointing they're just adding on to their total otherwise we're gonna have to think what we've got to do is like the other side of it is like subliminally for us we've got to get to a point sally that we find respectable like you know after like 19 points you've got to look at it 19 games 19 games sorry i'd like to be on 19 points no that's what i'm saying though you've got to get to a point position where even with the tech you can where you can add the 10 on and go actually if we'd add the 10 points this is where we this is what our point would be where you know what i mean we don't what we don't want to be doing is getting to that halfway stage maybe in the leeway you're looking to say we're going god even even with our 10 points you're still crap do you know what i mean where that's what i'm saying is some projections against crystal palette after the palace game you've you were looking at like an even kind of season you were people were predicting high 40 oh and oh and therefore high even the early 50s well if that's the case even with the 10 points it'll be fine yeah i just don't think you can't get yourself yeah i just don't think mentally you can do that i just don't think i just think there's i just think as i said before we've said loads of things it's not just our middle it's not not just us mentally having to deal with it but other teams will be will be seeing it as a huge boost to them as well you know you can't factor in how how loot and players and fans would have been feeling when this came in they suddenly like we're at the bottom three if we win that next game and they lose their game they've got to take games my united so the way five points cleaner them and then they'll be going if we get a point there and point they've got an away game and that's the other side of it you can't it give it's give everybody else a boost and obviously dragged us in there and for us if it's like it's mental torture it's like the mental torture continues we thought we were getting away from it we thought we were getting out of it and we've been dragged back into it and it's really hard especially especially when you have when you're playing well you look at games go we'll do it be all right we'll get something there fanciers against it and then when that switch is flipped then you look at every game in a negative way and go no these we didn't haven't beaten these since god knows when and they're flying and you know for a staff and you know they haven't won for ages or the managers under pressure oh what a start that whole thing you look for everything you'll it just all starts keeping into your head so that's why if Evan could win on on saturday it almost becomes like a mental reset going actually lads we can do we're not terrible are we we were doing all right man United was a blip to get back doing what we were doing and if we could do that on saturday and then you start then you go we've got two home games for Gary we're playing we've got two home games now and if we get four points out of those two games we're flying and that's why that's why we're putting any more pressure on them let's get at least seven out the next nine yeah do that do that do that that'll be just do that that'll set us up nicely wouldn't it so help us out help us out massively just give us one season please one just one season where we can be relaxed and like early April please and it was on course for that without the Premier League or just give us another another point of ducks and make a 40 point and then we all know then we all know don't we make a piece really we can just go we're just preparing for next year lads just you've made your peace well I like mine mine's better no I do get seven out the next night I do I do I do keep on away at that just go get the let's just go and get the points there you go tough game of course um let's just let's just go why not we're boss away the Corey scores goals away from all the Corey Hatter you know what I mean that's it get more than one get a couple for the Corey flying won't you send the forwarders when you've got the Corey away from home I want battle come on battle lad now's the time go follow the lazy mode get yourself a couple of beauties hmm for us can start winning next week but just let us get them falling to the abyss and then get a 10 points man because how many plays they've bought them last two years that's a different story for the different day forget about them it's us can't put it on yeah but if they got a 20 point deduction what this is what maybe this is what we have to start doing is actually back the Premier League so they give no so they give more points the duck lootings point the duck ground than any money and do that ground easy though yeah almost right on that bottom shelf let's just win dead easy just win will you big blue nose actually was a blue nose actually was a blue nose so don't bring him into the conversations the fairy tale of the city grand better come on do it it will be december so it will and i've got to get up on sunday morning and be in time for a 5k at half nine for the santa dash imagine what i'll feel i will do that in a record time if everyone have won no what i want everything to go there and be able to sing jingle bells or what fun it is to watch everyone win away in december come on imagine how i'll feel on sunday if we haven't won running around the city centre and probably like minus four i'll be off the kids one was 40 kids 40 at half nine three isn't it not can't feel you that's a choice you've made is it you chose to have a calling you made that decision there you go make sure to give this video like subscribe if you haven't already you want more great videos join us over on toffee tv premier the link is in the description and the qr code is coming up 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