The past two and a half years have seen a dramatic change in the security posture of virtually all organizations. By accelerating the digital business mandate, the isolation economy catalyzed a move toward cloud computing to support remote workers, this we know. This had several ripple effects on CISO and CIO strategies that were highly visible at the board of directors level. Now the first major change was to recognize that the perimeter had suddenly been vaporized. Protection as a result moved away from things like perimeter-based firewalls toward more distributed endpoints, cloud security, and modern identity management. The second major change was a heightened awareness of the realities of ransomware. Ransomware as a service, for example, emerges as a major threat where virtually anyone with access to critical data and criminal intentions could monetize corporate security exposures. The third major change was a much more acute understanding of how data protection needed to become a fundamental component of cybersecurity strategies. More specifically, CIOs quickly realized that their business resilience strategies were too narrowly DR focused, that their DR approach was not cost efficient and needed to be modernized, and that new approaches to operational resilience were needed to reflect the architectural and business realities of this new environment. Hello and welcome to Why Ransomware Isn't Your Only Problem, a service of theCUBE made possible by Dhruva and in collaboration with IDC. I'm your host, Dave Vellante, and today we're presenting a three-part program. We'll start with the data. IDC recently conducted a global survey of 500 business technology practitioners across 20 industries to understand the degree to which organizations are aware of and prepared for the threats they face in today's new world. IDC research vice president Phil Goodwin is here to share the highlights of the study and summarize the findings from a recent research report on the topic. After that, we're going to hear from Curtis Preston who's the chief technical evangelist at Dhruva. I've known Curtis for decades. He's one of the world's foremost experts on backup and recovery specifically and data protection generally. Curtis will help us understand how the survey data presented by IDC aligns with the real world findings from the field from his point of view. And he'll discuss why so many organizations have failed to successfully recover from an attack without major pains and big costs and how to avoid such operational disruptions and disasters. And then finally, we'll hear from the technical experts at Dhruva. Stephen Manley and Anjan Srinivas. Stephen is a 10-time CUBE alum and chief technology officer at Dhruva and Anjan is vice president and general manager of product management at the company. And these individuals will specifically address how Dhruva is closing the gaps presented in the IDC survey through their product innovation. And right now I'm going to toss it to Lisa Martin, another one of the hosts for today's program. Lisa, over to you. Feel good when joins me next, the VP of research at IDC. We're going to be breaking down what's going on in the threat landscape. Phil, welcome to the program. It's great to have you back on theCUBE. Hey, Lisa, it's great to be here with you. So talk to me about the state of the global IT landscape as we see cyber attacks massively increasing, the threat landscape changing so much. What is IDC seeing? You know, you really hit the top topic that we find from IT organizations as well as business organizations. And really it's that digital resilience that ransomware that has everybody's attention. And it has the attention, not just of the IT people, but of the business people alike because it really does have profound effects across the organization. The other thing that we're seeing Lisa is really a move towards cloud. And I think part of that is driven by the economics of cloud, which fundamentally changed the way that we can approach disaster recovery, but also was accelerated during the pandemic for all the reasons that people have talked about in terms of work from home and so on. And then really the third thing is the economic uncertainty. And this is relatively new for 2022, but within IDC we've been doing a lot of research around what are those impacts going to be? And what we find people doing is they want greater flexibility, they want more cost certainty, and they really want to be able to leverage those cloud economics to have the scale, upper scale down, on demand nature of cloud. So those are in a nutshell, kind of the three things that people are looking at. You mentioned ransomware. It's a topic we've been talking about a lot. It's a household word these days. It's now, Phil, no longer if we're gonna get to talk, it's when, it's how often it's the severity. Talk about ransomware as a priority all the way up the stack to the C-suite. And what are they trying to do to become resilient against it? Well, some of the research that we did is we found that about 77% of organizations have digital resilience as a top priority within their organization. And so what you're seeing is organizations trying to leverage things to become more resilient, more digitally resilient, and to be able to really hone in on those kinds of issues that are keeping them awake at night, quite honestly. If you think about digital resilience, it really is foundational to the organization, whether it's through digital transformation or whether it's simply data availability, whatever it might happen to be. Digital resilience is really a large umbrella term that we use to describe that function that is aimed at avoiding data loss, assuring data availability and helping the organization to extract value from their data. And digital resilience, data resilience as every company these days has to be a data company to be competitive. Digital resilience, data resilience, are you using those terms interchangeably or data resilience to find something a little bit different? Well, sometimes, yeah, that we do get caught using them when one is the other, but data resilience is really a part of digital resilience, if you think about the data itself in the context of IT computing. So it really is a subset of that, but it is foundational to IT resilience. You really, you can't have IT resilience without data resilience. So that's where we're coming from on it. And it's strictly linked and it's becoming a corporate initiative, but there's some factors that can complicate digital resilience, data resilience for organizations. What are some of those complications that organizations need to be aware of? Well, one of the biggest is what you mentioned at the top of the segment and that is the area of ransomware. The research that we found is about 46% of organizations have been hit within the last three years. You know, it's kind of interesting how it's changed over the years. Originally, being hit by ransomware had a real stigma attached to it. Organizations didn't want to admit it and they really avoided confronting that. Nowadays, so many people have been hit by it that that stigma has gone. And so really it is becoming more of a community kind of effort as people try to defend against these ransomers. The other thing about it is it's really a lot like whack-a-mole, you know? They attack us in one area and we defend against it. So they attack us in another area and we defend against it. And in fact, I had an individual come up to me at a show not long ago and said, you know, one of these days we're gonna get pretty well defended against ransomware and it's gonna go away. And I responded, I don't think so because we're constantly introducing new systems, new software and introducing new vulnerabilities. And the fact is ransomware is so profitable the bad guys aren't gonna just fade into the night without giving it a lot of fights. So I really think that ransomware is one of those things that is here for the long term and something that we have to address and have to get proactive about. You mentioned some stats there and recently IDC and Druva did a white paper together that really revealed some quite shocking results. Talk to me about some of the things. Let's talk a little bit about the demographics of the survey and then talk about what was the biggest finding there, especially where it's concerning ransomware. Yeah, this was a worldwide study it was sponsored by Druva and conducted by IDC as an independent study. And what we did, we surveyed 500 is a little over 500 different individuals across the globe in North America, select countries in Western Europe as well as several in Asia Pacific. And we did it across industries where 20 different industries represented they're all evenly represented. We had surveys that included IT practitioners primarily CIO, CTOs, VP of infrastructure, managers of data centers, things like that. And the biggest finding that we had in this Lisa was really finding that there is a huge disconnect I believe between how people think they are ready and what the actual results are when they get attacked. Some of the statistics that we learned from this Lisa include 83% of organizations believe or told us that they have a playbook that they have for ransomware. I think 93% said that they have a high degree or a very high degree of confidence in their recovery tools and are fully automated. And yet when you look at the actual results I told you a moment ago, 46% have been attacked successfully. I can also tell you that in separate research fewer than a third of organizations were able to fully recover their data without paying the ransom. And some two thirds actually had to pay the ransom. And even when they did, they didn't necessarily achieve their full recovery. The bad guys aren't necessarily to be trusted. And so the software that they provide sometimes is fully recovered, sometimes it's not. So you look at that and you go, wow, on the one hand people think they're really, really prepared. And on the other hand, the results are absolutely horrible. Two thirds of people having to pay the ransom. So you start to ask yourself, well, what's going on there? And I believe that a lot of it comes down to kind of reminds me of the old quote from Mike Tyson. Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. And I think that's kind of what happens with ransomware. You think you know what you're doing. You think you're ready based on the information you have. And these people are smart people and they're professionals. But oftentimes you don't know what you don't know.  And so I think for that reason, a lot of these have been successful. So that was kind of the key finding to me and kind of the aha moment really in this whole thing, Lisa. That's a massive disconnect with the vast majority saying we have a cyber recovery playbook, yet nearly half being the victims of ransomware in the last three years, and then half of them experiencing data loss. What is it then that organizations in this situation across any industry can do to truly enable cyber resilience, data resilience, as we said, this is a matter of, this is gonna happen, just a matter of when and how often? It is a matter of, yeah, as you said, it's not if when or how often it's really how badly. So I think what organizations are really doing now is starting to turn more to cloud-based services, finding professionals who know what they're doing, who have that breadth of experience and who have seen the kinds of necessary steps that it takes to do a recovery. And the fact of the matter is a disaster recovery and a cyber recovery are really not the same thing. And so organizations need to be able to plan the kinds of recovery associated with cyber recovery in terms of forensics, in terms of scanning, in terms of analysis and so forth. So they're turning to professionals in the cloud much more in order to get that breadth of experience and to take advantage of cloud-based services that are out there. Talk to me about some of the key advantages of cloud-based services for data resilience versus traditional legacy on-prem equipment. What are some of the advantages? Why is IDC staying this big shift to cloud where data resilience is concerned? Well, the first and foremost is the economics of it. You can have on-demand resources. And in the old days when we had disaster recoveries where we had two different data centers and a failover and so forth, you had double the infrastructure. If you're financial services, it might even be triple the infrastructure. It was very complicated, very difficult. By going to the cloud, organizations can subscribe to disaster recovery as a service. And increasingly what we see as a new market of cyber recovery as a service. So being able to leverage those resources, to be able to have the forensic analysis available to them, to be able to have the other resources available that are on-demand and to have that plan in place, to have those resources in place. I think what happens in a number of situations, Lisa, is that organizations think they're ready, but then all of a sudden they get hit. And all of a sudden they have to engage with outside consultants or they have to bring in other experts. And that extends the time to recover that they have. And it also complicates it. So if they have those resources in place, then they can simply turn them on, engage them and get that recover going as quickly as possible. So what do you think the big issue here is that these IPT practitioners, over 500 that you surveyed, across 20 industries, this is a global survey, do they not know what they don't know? What's the overlying issue here? Yeah, I think that's right. You don't know what you don't know. And until you get into a specific attack, there are so many different ways that organizations can be attacked. And in fact, from this research that we found is that in many cases, data exfiltration exceeds data corruption by about 50%. And when you think about that, the issue is once I have your data, what are you gonna do?  So organizations are either faced with paying the ransom to keep the data from perhaps being used on the dark web or whatever or simply saying no and taking their chances. So best practice, things like encryption, immutability, things like that that organizations can put into place, certainly air gaps, having a solid backup foundation to where data is, you have a high probability of recovery, things like that, those are the kinds of things that organizations have to put into place, really is a baseline to assure that they can recover as fast as possible and not lose data in the event of a ransomware attack. Given some of the disconnect that you articulated, the stats that show so many think we are prepared, we've got a playbook yet so many are being attacked, the vulnerabilities and as the landscape, threat landscape just gets more and more amorphous. What do you recommend organizations do? You talked to the IT practitioners, but does this go all the way up to the board level in terms of, hey guys, across every industry, we are vulnerable, this is going to happen, we've got to make sure that we are truly resilient and proactive. Yes, and in fact, what we found from this research is in more than half of cases, the CEO is directly involved in the recovery. So this is very much a C-suite issue. And if you look at the consequences of ransomware, it's not just the ransom, it's the loss productivity, it's the loss of revenue, it's the loss of customer faith and goodwill. And organizations that have been attacked have suffered those consequences and many of them are permanent. So people at the board level, whether it's the CEO, the CFO, the CIO, the CISO, whoever it is, they're extremely concerned about these and I can tell you they are fully engaged in addressing these issues within their organization. So all the way at the top, business critical for any industry, I imagine some industries may be a little bit more vulnerable than others, financial services, healthcare, education, we've just seen big attack in Los Angeles County. But in terms of establishing data resilience, you mentioned ransomware isn't going anywhere, it's a big business, it's very profitable. But what is IDC's prediction where ransomware is concerned? Do you think that organizations, if they truly adopt cloud and status-based technologies, can they get to a place where the C-suite doesn't have to be involved to the point where they really actually have a functioning playbook? I don't know if we'll ever get to the point where the C-suite is not involved. It's probably very important to have that level of executive sponsorship. But what we are seeing is, in fact, we predict that by 2025, 55% of organizations will have shifted to a cloud-centric strategy for their data resilience. And the reason we say that is, workloads on-premises aren't going away, so that's the core. We have an increasing number of workloads in the cloud and at the edge, and that's really where the growth is. So being able to take that cloud-centric model and take advantage of cloud resources like immutable storage, being able to move data from region to region inexpensively and easily. And to be able to take that cloud-centric perspective and apply it on-premises as well as in the cloud and at the edge is really where we believe that organizations are shifting their focus. Got it. We're just cracking the surface here, Phil. I wish we had more time, but I had a chance to read the Dribba sponsored IDC White Paper. Fascinating finds. I encourage all of you to download that. Take a read. You're going to learn some very interesting statistics and recommendations for how you can really, truly deploy data resilience in your organization. Phil, it's been a pleasure to have you on the program. Thank you for joining me. No problem. Thank you, Lisa. In a moment, John Furrier will be here with his next guest. For right now, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We live in a world of infinite data, sprawling, dispersed, valuable, but also vulnerable. So how do organizations achieve data resiliency when faced with ever-expanding workloads, increasing security threats, and intensified regulations? Unfortunately, the answer often boils down to what flavor of complexity do you like best? The common patchwork approaches are expensive, convoluted, and difficult to manage. There's multiple software and hardware vendors to worry about. Different deployments for workloads running on-premises or in the cloud, and an inconsistent security framework resulting in enterprises maintaining four to five copies of the same data, increasing costs and risk, building to an incoherent mess of complications. Now imagine a world free from these complexities. Welcome to the Druva Data Resiliency Cloud where full data protection and beautiful simplicity converge. No hardware, no upgrades, no management, just total data resilience. With just a few clicks, you can get started integrating all of your data resiliency workflows in minutes through a true cloud experience built on Amazon Web Services. The Druva platform automates and manages critical daily tasks, giving you time to focus on your business. In other words, get simplicity, scalability, and security instantly.  It's ready to be used 24-7 to meet compliance needs and to extract critical insights. You can archive data for long-term retention, be protected against device failure and natural disasters, and recover from ransomware lightning fast. Druva is trusted with billions of backups annually by thousands of enterprises, including more than 60 of the Fortune 500, costing up to 50% less than the convoluted hardware, software, and appliance solutions. As data grows and becomes more critical to your business advantage, a data resiliency plan is vital, but it shouldn't be complicated. Druva makes it simple. Welcome back everyone to The Cube and the Druva special presentation of why ransomware isn't your only problem. I'm John Furrier, host of The Cube. We're here with W. Curtis Preston, Curtis Preston as he known in the industry, chief technical evangelist at Druva. Curtis, great to see you. We're here at why ransomware isn't your only problem. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Happy to be here. So we always see each other events now, events are back, so it's great to have you here for this special presentation. The white paper from IDC really talks about this in detail. I'd like to get your thoughts and I'd like you to reflect on the analysis that we've been covering here in the survey data. How it lines up with the real world that you're seeing out there. Yeah, I think it's the survey results really, I'd like to say that they surprised me, but unfortunately they didn't. The data protection world has been this way for a while where there's this difference in belief or difference between the belief and the reality. And what we see is that there are a number of organizations that have been successfully hit by ransomware, paid the ransom and or lost data. And yet the same people that were surveyed, they had high degrees of confidence in their backup system. And I could probably go on for an hour as to the various reasons why that would be the case. But I think that this long running problem that as long as I've been associated with backups, which has been a while, it's that problem of nobody wants to be the backup person and people often just they don't wanna have anything to do with the backup system. And so it sort of exists in this vacuum. And so then management is like, oh, the backup system is great because the backup person often might say that it's great because maybe it's their job to say so, but the reality has always been very, very different. It's funny. You know, we're good, boss. We got this covered. Good, so good. The fingers crossed, right? So again, this is the reality and as it becomes backup and recovery, which we've talked about many times on theCUBE, certainly we have with you before, but now with ransomware, also the other thing is people get ransomware hit multiple times. So it's not only like to get hit once.  And so let's get into that. You know, you have had hands on backup experience. What are the points that surprised you the most about what's going on in this world and the realities of how people should be going forward? What's your take? Well, I would say that the one part in the survey that surprised me the most was people that had a huge, you know, there was a huge percentage of people that said that they had a, you know, a ransomware response, you know, in readiness program. And you look at that and how could you be, you know, that higher percentage of people be comfortable with their ransomware readiness program. And, you know, which includes a number of things, right? There's the cyber attack aspect of responding to a ransomware attack. And then there's the recovery aspect. And so you believe that your company was ready for that. And then you go, and I think it was 67% of the people in the survey paid the ransom, which as a person who, you know, spent my entire career trying to help people successfully recover their data, that number I think just hurt me the most is that because you talked about reinfections, the surest way to guarantee that you get reattacked and reinfected is to pay the ransom. This goes back all the way to ransom since the beginning of time, right?   A-R, for ransomware. Yeah, so the fact that, you know, 60, what, two thirds of the people that were attacked by ransomware paid the ransom. That one statistic just hurt my heart. Yeah, and I think this is the reality. I mean, look back, I mean, even the psychology of the practitioners was, you know, it's super important to get back and recover, and that's been around for a long time, but now that's an attack vector, okay? And there's dollars involved. Like I said, the A-R, I'm joking, but there's recurring revenue for the bad guys if they know you're paying up.  So, again, it works both ways. So I got to ask you, why do you think so many organs are unable to successfully respond after an attack? Is it because they know it's coming?   Why aren't they responding successfully to this? I think it's a litany of things, starting with that aspect that I mentioned before that nobody wants to have anything to do with the backup system, right? So nobody wants to be the one to raise their hand because if you're the one that raises their hand, you know, that's a good idea, Curtis. Why don't you look into that, right? Nobody wants to be responsible. Where's that guy now? He doesn't work here anymore. Yeah, but I hear what you're coming for. Exactly. Psychology. Yeah, so there's that. But then the second is that because of that, no one's looking at the fact that backups are the attack vector. They become the attack vector. And so because they're the attack vector, they have to be protected as much, if not more than the rest of the environment. The rest of the environment can live off of active directory and, you know, and things like octas so that you can have SSO and things like that. The backup environment has to be segregated in a very special way. Backups have to be stored completely separate from your environment. The login and authentication and authorization system needs to be completely separate from your typical environment. Why? Because if that production environment is compromised, now knowing that the backup systems are a significant portion of the attack vector, then if the production system is compromised and the backup system is compromised. So you've got to segregate all of that. And I just don't think that people are thinking about that. You know, they're using the same backup techniques that they've used for many, many years. So what you're saying is that the attack vectors and the attackers are getting smarter. They're saying, hey, we'll just take out the backup first so they can backup. So we got the ransomware. It makes sense. Yeah, exactly. The largest ransomware group out there, the Conti ransomware group, they are specifically targeting specific backup vendors. They know how to recognize the backup servers. They know how to recognize where the backups are stored. And they are exfiltrating the backups first and then deleting them and then letting you know you have ransom. Okay, so you guys have a lot of customers. They all kind of have seen this problem. What's the patterns that you're seeing? How are they evolving? What are some of the things that they're implementing? What is the best practice? Well, again, you've got to fully segregate that data. There are, and everything about how that data is stored and everything about how that data is created and accessed, there are ways to do that with other commercial products. You can take a standard product and put a number of layers of defense on top of it. Or you can switch to the way Druva does things, which is a SaaS offering that stores your data completely in the cloud in our account, right? So your account could be completely compromised. That has nothing to do with our account. And it's a completely different authentication and authorization system. You've got multiple layers of defense between your computing environment and where we store your backups. So basically what you get by default with the way Druva stores your backups is the best you can get after doing many, many layers of defense on the other side and having to do all that work with us, you just log in and you get all of that. I guess, how do you break the laws of physics? I guess that's the question here. Well, because that's the other thing is that by storing the data in the cloud, we do it. And I've said this a few times, that you get to break the laws of physics. And the only way to do that is time travel. So yeah, so Druva has time travel. And this is a courtesism, by the way. I don't think this is our official position, but the idea is that the only way to restore data as fast as possible is to restore it before you actually need it. And that's kind of what I mean by time travel. In that you basically, you configure your DR, your disaster recovery environment in Druva one time. And then we are pre restoring your data as often as you tell us to do, to bring your DR environment up to the current environment as quickly as we can so that in a disaster recovery scenario which is part of your ransomware response, right? Again, there are many different parts, but when you get to actually restoring the data, you should be able to just push a button and go. The data should already be restored. And that's the way that you break the laws of physics is you break the laws of time. Well, I had never wants to know the next question. And this is the real big question is, are you from the future? Yeah, very much the future. What's it like in the future? Backup recovery as a restore, is it air gapping everything? Yeah, well, it's a world where people don't have to worry about their backups. I like to use the phrase, get out of the backup business, just get into the restore business. I'm a grandfather now and I love having a granddaughter and I often make the joke that if I didn't known how great grandkids were, I would have skipped straight to them, right? Not possible. Just like this, recoveries are great, backups are really hard. So in the future, if you use a SAS data protection system and data resiliency system, you can just do recoveries and not have to worry about backups. Yeah, and what's great about your background is you've got a lot of historical perspective, seen that in the ways of innovation. Now it really is about the recovery and real time. So a lot of good stuff going on and automated things got to be rocking and rolling. Absolutely, yeah. I do remember again, having worked so hard with many clients over the years, back then we worked so hard just to get the backup done, there was very little time to work on the recovery. And I really, I kid you not that our customers don't have to do all of those things that all of our competitors have to do to try to break the laws of physics. I've been fighting the laws of physics my entire career to get the backup done in the first place, then to secure all the data, right? To air gap it and make sure that a ransomware attack isn't going to attack it. Our customers get to get straight to a fully automated disaster recovery environment that they get to test as often as possible and they get to do a full test by simply pressing a single button.  Yeah, I mean, security is a big part of it. Data is in the middle of it. All this is now mainstream, front lines, great stuff. Chris, great to have you on, bring that perspective and thanks for the insight, really appreciate it. Always happy to talk about my favorite subject. All right, we'll be back in a moment. We'll have Stephen Manley, the CTO and Anjan Srinivas, the GM and VP of Product Manager will join me. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech enterprise coverage. Ransomware is top of mind for everyone. Attacks are becoming more frequent and more sophisticated. It's a problem you can't solve alone anymore. Ransomware is built to exploit weaknesses in your backup solution, destroying data and your last line of defense. With many vendors, it can take a lot of effort and configuration to ensure your backup environment is secure. Criminals also know that it's easy to fall behind on best practices like vulnerability scans, patches and updates. In fact, 42% of vulnerabilities are exploited after a patch has been released. After an attack, recovery can be a long and manual process that still may not restore clean or complete data. The good news is that you can keep your data safe and recover faster with the Druva Data Resiliency Cloud on your side. The Druva platform functions completely in the cloud with no hardware, software, operating system or complex configurations, which means there are none of the weaknesses that ransomware commonly uses to attack backups. Our software as a service model delivers 24-7-365 fully managed security operations for your backup environment. We handle all the vulnerability scans, patches and upgrades for you. Druva also makes zero trust security easy with built-in multi-factor authentication, single sign-on and role-based access controls. In the event of an attack, Druva helps you stop the spread of ransomware and quickly understand what went wrong with built-in access insights and anomaly detection. Then you can use industry-first tools and services to automate the recovery of clean, unencrypted data from the entire timeframe of the attack. Cyber attacks are a major threat, but you can make protection and recovery easy with Druva. Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's special presentation with Druva on why ransomware isn't your only problem. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Our next guest is Stephen Manley, Chief Technology Officer of Druva and I'm John Srinivas, who is the General Manager and Vice President of Product Management at Druva. Gentlemen, you got the keys to the kingdom, the technology, ransomware, data resilience. This is the topic, the IDC white paper that you guys put together with IDC. Really kind of nails it out. I want to get into it right away. Welcome to this segment, I really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. Great to be here, John. So what's your thoughts on the survey's conclusion? Obviously, the resilience is huge. Ransomware continues to thunder away at businesses and causes a lot of problems, disruption. I mean, it's endless ransomware problems. What's your thoughts on the conclusion? So I'll say the thing that pops out to me is on the one hand, everybody who sees the survey who reads it's gonna say, well, that's obvious. Of course, ransomware continues to be a problem. Cyber resilience is an issue that's plaguing everybody. But I think when you dig deeper and there's a lot of subtleties to look into, but one of the things that I hear on a daily basis from the customers is it's because the problem keeps evolving. It's not as if the threat was a static thing to just be solved and you're done because the threat keeps evolving, it remains top of mind for everybody because it's so hard to keep up with what's happening in terms of the attacks. And I think the other important thing to note, John, is that people are grappling with this ransomware attack all of a sudden where they were still grappling with a lot of legacy in their own environment. So they were not prepared for the advanced techniques that these ransomware attackers were bringing to market. It's almost like these ransomware attackers had a huge leg up in terms of technology that they had in their favor while keeping the lights on was keeping IT away from all the tooling that needed to do. A lot of people are even still wondering when that happens next time, what do I even do? So clearly not very surprising. Clearly, I think it's here to stay. And I think as long as people don't retool for a modern era of data management, this is going to stay this way. Yeah, I mean, I hear this all the time in our CUBE conversations with practitioners. You know, it's kind of like the security problem. Give me more tools. I'll buy anything that comes on the market. I'm desperate. There's definitely a tension, but it doesn't seem like people are satisfied with the tooling that they have. Can you guys share kind of your insights into what's going on the product side because people claim that they have tools at fine points of recovery opportunities, but they can't get there. So it seems to be that there's a confidence problem here in the market. How do you guys see that? Because I think this is where the rubber meets the road with ransomware, because it is a moving train. It's always changing, but it doesn't seem this confidence. Can you guys talk about that? What's your reaction? Yeah, let me jump in first and Stephen can add to it. What happens is, I think this is a panic buying and they have accumulated this tooling now just because somebody said it could solve your problem. But they haven't had a chance to take a relook from a ground up perspective to see where are the bottlenecks, where are the vulnerabilities and which tooling set needs to lie where, where does the logic need to reside? And what it through of your watching people do and people do it successfully is that as they have adopted through our technology which is ground up built for the cloud and really built in a way which is driven at a data insight level where we have people even monitoring our service for anomalies and activities that are suspicious, we know where we need to play a role in really kind of mitigating this ransomware. And then there is a whole plethora of ecosystem players that kind of combine to really, really finish the story, so to say, right? So I think this has been a panic buying situation. This is like, get me any help you can give me. And I think as this settles down and people really understand that longer term as they really build out a true defense mechanism, they need to think really ground up. They will start to really see the value of technologists like Dhruva and try to identify the right set of ecosystem to really bring together to solve it meaningfully. You know what I was gonna say, I mean, one of the really interesting things in the survey for me and for a moment, you know, a little more than a moment that made me think was the large number of respondents who said, I've got a really efficient, well-run backup environment. Who then on basically the next question said, and I have no confidence that I can recover from a ransomware attack.  And I think that's the moment when we dug deeper and we realized, if you've got a traditional architecture, let's face it, the dis-based architecture has been around for almost two decades now in terms of dis-based backup, you can have that tuned to the help. That can be running as efficiently as you want it. But it was built before the ransomware attacks, before all these cyber issues really start hitting companies. And so I have this really well-run traditional backup environment that is not at all built for these modern threat vectors. And so that's really why customers are saying, I'm doing the best I can. But as Anjan pointed out, the architecture of the tooling isn't there to support what problems I need to solve today. Great point. And so, yeah. Well, that's a great point. And before we get into the customer side I want to get to in a second. You know, I interviewed Jaspreet, the founder and CEO many years ago, even before the pandemic. And you mentioned modern. You guys have always had the cloud with Truva. This is huge. Now that you're past the pandemic, what is that modern cloud edge that you guys have? Because that's a great point. A lot of stuff was built kind of back on recovery, bolted on, not really kind of designed into the current state of the infrastructure and the cloud native application modern environment we're seeing right now. It's a huge issue. I think it's, to me, there's three things that come up over and over and over again as we talk to people in terms of, you know, being built in cloud, being cloud native, why is it an advantage? The first one is security in ransomware. And we can go deeper, but the most obvious one that always comes up is every single backup you do with Truva is air gap offsite managed under a separate administrative domain so that you're not retrofitting any sort of air gap network and buying another appliance or setting up your own cloud environment to manage this. Every backup is ransomware protected, guaranteed. I think the second advantage is the scalability. And you know, this certainly plays into account as your business grows or in some cases as you shrink or repurpose workloads you're only paying for what you use. But it also plays a big role again when you start thinking of ransomware recoveries because we can scale your recovery in cloud on premises as much or as little as you want. And then I think the third one is we're seeing basically things evolving, your workloads, data sprawl, new threat vectors. And one of the nice parts of being a SaaS service in the cloud is you're able to roll out new functionality every two weeks and there's no upgrade cycle. There's no waiting, the customer doesn't have to say, wow, I need it six months in the lab before I upgrade it. And it's an 18 month, 24 month cycle before the functionality releases. You're getting it every two weeks and it's backed by Druva to make sure it works. That's awesome. John, you know, you got the product side. You know, it's a challenging job because you have so many customers asking for things probably on the roadmap, you probably can go hour for that one. But I want to get your thoughts on what you're hearing and seeing from customers. You know, we just reviewed the IDC with Phil, how are you guys responding to your customer's needs because it seems that it's highly accelerated on the probably on the feature request, but also structurally as Ransomware continues to evolve, what are you hearing? What's the key customer need? How are you guys responding? Yeah, actually I have two things that I hear very clearly when I talk to customers. One, I think after listening to their security problems and their vulnerability challenges because we see customers and help customers who are getting challenged by Ransomware on a weekly basis. And what I find that this problem is not just a technology problem, it's an operating model problem. So in order to really secure themselves, they need a security operating model and a lot of them haven't figured out that security operating model in totality. Now where we come in as Druva is that we are providing them the cloud operating model and a data protection operating model combined with a data insights operating model which all fit into that overall security operating model that they are really owning and they need to manage and operate because this is just not about a piece of technology. On top of that, I think our customers are getting challenged by all the same challenges of not just spending time on keeping the lights on, but innovating faster with less and that has been this age old problem, but in this whole, they're like trying to innovate in the middle of the war, so to say, right? The war is happening, they're getting attacked, but there's also new shadow IT challenges that's forcing them to make sure that they can manage all the new applications that are getting developed in the cloud. There is thousands of SaaS applications that they're consuming, not knowing which data is critical to their success and which ones to protect and govern and secure. So all of these things are coming at them at 100 miles per hour while they are just trying to live one day at a time and unless they really develop this overall security operating model helped by cloud native technologies like Dhruva that really providing them a true cloud native model of really giving like a touchless and an invisible protection infrastructure, not just beyond backups, beyond just the data protection that we all know of into this kind of this mindset of kind of being able to look at where each of those functionalities need to lie. That's where I think they're grappling with. Now Dhruva is clearly helping them with keep up to pace with the public cloud innovations that they need to do and how to protect data. We just launched our EC2 offering to protect EC2 virtual machines back in AWS and we are going to be continuing to evolve that to further many services that public clouds offer because our customers are really kind of consuming them at breakneck speed. So the new workloads, the new security capabilities, love that, good call out there. Steven, this is still the issue of the disruption side of it. You guys have a guarantee, there's a cost to ownership as you get more tools. Can you talk about that angle of it? Because this is, you got new workloads, you got the new security needs. What's the disruption impact? Because we want to avoid that. How much is it going to cost you? And you guys have this guarantee. Can you explain that? Yeah, absolutely. So Druva launched our $10 million data resiliency guarantee. And for us, there were really two key parts to this. The first obviously is $10 million means that, again, we're willing to put our money where our mouth is and that's a big deal, right? That we're willing to back this with the guarantee. But then the second part, and this is the part that I think reflects that sort of model that Anjan was talking about. We sort of look at this and we say, the goal of Druva is to do the job of protecting and securing your data for you so that you as a customer don't have to do it anymore. And so the guarantee actually protects you against multiple types of risks, all with SLAs. So everything from your data is going to be recoverable in the case of a ransomware attack. Okay, that's good. Of course, for it to be recoverable, we're also guaranteeing your backup success rate. We're also guaranteeing the availability of the service. We're guaranteeing that the data that we're storing for you can't be compromised or leaked externally. And we're guaranteeing the long-term durability of the data so that if you back up with us today and you need to recover 30 years from now, that data is going to be recovered. So we wanted to really attack the end-to-end risks that affect our customers. Cybersecurity is a big deal, but it is not the only problem out there. And the only way for this to work is to have a service that can provide you SLAs across all of the risks because that means, again, as a SaaS vendor, we're doing the job for you. So you're buying results as opposed to technology. That's a great, great point. Ransomware isn't the only problem. That's the title of this presentation, but it's a big one, people are concerned about it. So great stuff. In the last five minutes, guys, if you don't mind, I'd love to have you share what's on the horizon for Drova. You mentioned the new workloads on John. You mentioned this new security, the hearing shift left. DevOps is now the developer model. They're running IT, get data and security teams now stepping in and trying to be as high-velocity as possible for the developers and enterprises. What's on the horizon for Drova? What trends is the company watching and how are you guys putting that together to stay ahead in the marketplace and competition? Yeah, I think listening to our customers, what we realize is they need help with the public cloud number one. I think that's a big wave of consumption. People are consolidating their data centers, moving to the public cloud. They need help in expanding data protection, which becomes the basis of a lot of the security operating model that I talked about. They need that first from Drova before they can start to get into much more advanced level of insights and analytics on that data to protect themselves and secure themselves and do interesting things with that data. So we are expanding our coverage on multiple fronts there. The second key thing is to really bring together a very insightful presentation layer, which I think is very unique to Drova because only we can look at multiple tenants, multiple customers because we are a SaaS vendor and look at insights and give them best practices and guidances and analytics that nobody else can give. There's no silo anymore because we are able to take a good big vision view and now help our customers with insights that otherwise that information map is completely missing. So we are able to guide them down a path where they can optimize which workloads need what kind of protection and then how to secure them. So that is the second level of insights and analytics that we are building. And there's a whole plethora of security offerings that we are gonna build all the way from a feature level where we have things like a recycle bin that's already available to our customers today to prevent any anomalous behavior and attacks that would delete their backups and then they still have a way to recover from it. But also things to curate and get back to that point in time where it is safe to recover and help them with a sandbox which they can recover confidently knowing it's not going to jeopardize them again and reinfect the whole environment again. So there's a whole bunch of things coming but the key themes are public cloud data insights and security and that's where my focus is to go and get those features delivered. And Steven can add a few more things around services that Steven is looking to build and launch. Sure, so yeah, so John, I think one of the other areas that we see just an enormous groundswell of interest. So public cloud is important but there are more and more organizations that are running hundreds, if not thousands of SaaS applications. And a lot of those SaaS applications have data.  But we're also seeing a lot of interest in protecting Salesforce because if you think about it, if someone deletes some really important records in Salesforce, that's actually kind of the record of your business. And so we're looking at more and more SaaS application protection and really getting deep in that application awareness. It's not just about backup and recovery when you look at something like a Salesforce or something like Microsoft 365, you do want to look into sandboxing. You want to look into long-term archival because this is the new record of the business. What used to be in your on-premises databases, that all lives in cloud and SaaS applications now. So that's a really big area of investment for us. The second one, just to echo what Anjan said is, one of the great things of being a SaaS provider is I have metadata that spans across thousands of customers and tens of billions of backups a year. I'm tracking all sorts of interesting information that is going to enable us to do things like make backups more autonomous. So that customers, again, I want to do the job for them. We'll do all the tuning, we'll do all the management for them to be able to better detect ransomware attacks, better respond to ransomware attacks because we're seeing across the globe. And then of course, being able to give them more insight into what's happening in their data environment so they can get a better security posture before any attack happens. Because let's face it, if you can set your data up more cleanly, you're going to be a lot less worried and a lot less exposed when that attack happens. So we want to be able to, again, cover those SaaS applications in addition to the public cloud. And then we want to be able to use our metadata and use our analytics and use this massive pipeline we've got to deliver value to our customers, not just charts and graphs, but actual services that enable them to focus their attention on other parts of the business. That's great stuff, John. And remember, John, I think all this while keeping things really easy to consume, consumer-grade UI APIs, and they're really the power of SaaS as a service, a simplicity to kind of continue on amongst kind of keeping these complex technologies together. Adjo, that's a great call out. I was going to mention ease of use and self-service, big part of the developer and IT experience expected. It's the table stakes. Love the analytic angle. I think that brings the scale to the table and faster time to value to get to learn best practices. But at the end of the day, information cross-cloud protection and security to protect and recover, this is huge. And this is a big part of not only just protecting against ransomware and other things, but really being fast and being agile. So really appreciate the insights. Thanks for sharing on this segment, really under the hood and really kind of the value of the product. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Okay, there it is. You got the experts talking about under the hood, the product of value, the future of what's going on with Druva and the future of cloud native protecting and recovering. This is what it's all about. It's not just ransomware, they have to worry about. In a moment, Dave Vellante will give you some closing thoughts on the subject here. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high-tech enterprise coverage. As organizations migrate their business processes to multi-cloud environments, they still face numerous threats and risks of data loss. With a growing number of cloud platforms and fragmented applications, it leads to an increase in data silos, sprawl and management complexity. As workloads become more diverse, it's challenging to effectively manage data growth, infrastructure and resource costs across multiple cloud deployments. Using numerous backup vendor solutions for multiple cloud platforms can lead to management complexity. More importantly, the lack of centralized visibility and control can leave you exposed to security vulnerabilities, including ransomware that can cripple your business. The Druva Data Resiliency Cloud is the only 100% SaaS data resiliency platform that provides centralized, secure, air-gapped and immutable backup and recovery. With Druva, your data is safe with multiple layers of protection and is ready for fast recovery from cyber attacks, data corruption or accidental data loss. Through a simple, easy to manage platform, you can seamlessly protect fragmented, diverse data at scale across public clouds and your business-critical SaaS applications. Druva is the only 100% SaaS vendor that can manage, govern and protect data across multiple clouds and business-critical SaaS applications. It supports not just backup and recovery, but also data resiliency across high-value use cases such as eDiscovery, sensitive data governance, ransomware and security. No other vendor can match Druva for customer experience, infinite scale, storage optimization, data immutability and ransomware protection. The Druva Data Resiliency Cloud, your data, always safe, always ready. Visit druva.com today to schedule a free demo. One of the big takeaways from today's program is that in the scramble to keep business flowing over the past two-plus years, a lot of good technology practices have been put into place, but there's much more work to be done. Specifically, because the frequency of attacks is on the rise and the severity of lost, stolen or inaccessible data is so much higher today, business resilience must be designed into architectures and solutions from the start. It cannot be an afterthought. Well, actually it can be, but you won't be happy with the results. Now, part of the answer is finding the right partners, of course, but it also means taking a system's view of your business, understanding the vulnerabilities and deploying solutions that can balance cost efficiency with appropriately high levels of protection, flexibility and speed slash accuracy of recovery. You know, we hope you found today's program useful and informative. Remember, this session is available on demand in both its full format and the individual guest segments. All you got to do is go to thecube.net and you'll see all the content or you can go to druva.com. There are tons of resources available, including analyst reports, customer stories, there's this cool TCO calculator. You can find out what pricing looks like and lots more. Thanks for watching. Why ransomware isn't your only problem made possible by Druva. A collaboration with IDC and presented by theCUBE, your leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage.


What's up everybody, Jay-Z here for jayspeakscasebreak.com. We just sold out 2023 Top's Chrome Sapphire Baseball, five bucks, half case break, random team number one out. And this is an MLB Playoffs break. So again, that means that if you buy into any breaks with that in the title, you have a chance to win up to $7,000 in prizes, including the grand prize, tier one case, that's a $2,500 value. So at the end of this break guys, we're gonna randomize the original list. Number one is gonna win that spot and we'll put you in our dock right here. Like I said, we just gotta sell out those 30 breaks and then we can get away with those prizes there guys. So here we go. Let's roll the dice and do the break first though. Two and a six, eight times. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Eight times. Two and a six, eight, eight, Harry and Ryan. Two and a six, eight, eight. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Padres down to the angels. Eight, eight. All right, so Harry, you have the Padres Tristan with the twins, David with the Rockies and Reds, Bill with the Royals, David with the Orioles, Matthew with the Braves, Alexander with the Dodgers, Andy with the Diamondbacks, Harry with the Blue Jays, NJ with the Rangers, Nancy with the White Sox, Stephen with the Tigers, Nancy with the Mariners and National, Stacey with the Rays, David with the Met, Cassandra with the Yankees, Tristan with the Cubs and Red Sox, DMACC, you have the Marlins, Matthew with the Giants, Cassandra with the Guardians, Simon with the Guard, sorry. Cassandra with the Card, Simon with the Guardians, Paul with the Phillies, Harry with the Brewers, Tristan with the A's, Cassandra with the Pirates, Brian, Prouser the Astros, and Ryan with the Los Angeles Angels. So if you guys want to make any trades, give you a quick minuto. Flavor drop. Brown rice, white rice, or quinoa? We're gonna need them. Do you have any good hour drinks? No, my teeth are sensitive to cold. 15.45, oh, I was paying for an outside. All right, turn on your closing, guys. Is everybody in the break? And there we go. Off comes our Nois. Right side here, guys. I'm gonna open it just a little bit. One, two, three for the left, four, five, six for the right side. Six, one, two, three, four, five, six. We're gonna go with the right side. Left side, guys, we can redo later tonight if you guys want. I'll re-pulse it up right now. So depending on what we hit or don't hit, can be a fun one to redo or re-run. All right, here we go. My YouTube is messing up my background and it doesn't look like anything's wrong. Let me check on my phone. Well, we are hard-wired, so obviously, different. Yeah, it's fine now, I mean, well, I never checked before. Yeah, don't know what else to say. Here we go. Oh, we got a gold. And it's a Philly's team logo. There you go. Philly's. Man, I don't know, guys, if Philly's won this game, I think they take this series, 15 out of 50. Calrelle. And Spencer Torkelson. Nice one there for the Detroit Tigers. I have to think that's a variation. I think it's anything like over 400 or something like that, 330, let me see the code in the back. Yeah, it's the end of 30, I think it's a variation. There's a Mookie. We got an orange coming up. And it's Lourdes Jerelle Jr. For the D-becks. Nico. First box. Got an extra number card too in this one. Also, all crazies, I did a case of this on Fanatics Live on Wednesday, and I hit a Super Fractor out of this. Not a poppy, I hit a Super Fractor. I didn't think you can hit actual Super Fractors in this too. All right, we got a purple coming out, here we go. Josh Jung Rookie. And it's four, well, actually it might be a randomizer. Verlander, Valdez, and Manoa. Valdez and Manoa at a 10. Blue Jays is Harry, Astros is Brian Kraut, so we'll have to randomize that. There you go. We got a new teammates on a magical run. Nolan Gorman Rookie. A nice Nate Eaton to 50. Doc Peterson. This might be a randomizer as well. Judge. And then we got Franchi Cordero. Look at that, it's my cousin right there. There you go. Out of guard series, a blue-way punch by Bryson Stott. This is the second ever postseason Barrett Slam. Jay, good for you. I've been talking to C.C. Sybathria in 2008.  All right, next one. There's no one we'll randomize left or right. Catcher interference, run scores. And bases loaded still or no. Wow, Monty, another potential randomizer there. We got Jorge Soler to 25 for the Marlins. Has DMAC, Vinny Pasquantino, another randomizer there in left, middle, right. And a gold Yadiel Hernandez for the Washington Nationals. Bon Grissom, Jekyllson Prophar, Nicoladolo. In the randomizer, letting him in. Salsa, James Altman. Wow, that doesn't look like catcher interference, does it? Call on the field stands. Come on, Braes fans, be better than that. Gold for the Minnesota Twins. We have a red coming up. And it's Isaac Kiner-Felefone, one out of five. Yankees, Gwinnicka Sander. Woznicki, Michael Massey, and Bryce Terrain. All right, last one here. Rangers, I know.  They were literally in first place for the majority of the year. Wasn't till last second, but maybe it was a good thing they went up against the Orals. I mean, obviously, even though one of the best teams in baseball, still young and inexperienced, right? Potentially, so, maybe we can get past them. But me and Pizzas had conversations already.  The Dodgers should win, but... Dodgers tend to choke in the playoffs. I've seen it throughout my whole life. From the 2000s to the 10s in the 2020s. So we'll see. Rojas, Kike, Shohei Otani. And then we got a Drey Jamison. The 25 Orange. Matt Olson. Michael Lorenzen. Little DeGroffy. All right. Well, there you go, guys. So some nice stuff here, good colors, but... I feel like second half to be pretty big, guys. So, there's some nice ones there to show you guys. I got that red out of five. A couple of oranges, a lot of golds. There's a variation. All of these will be left, middle, right. Obviously, if someone has all those teams, then they don't have to worry. But left, middle, right. And this one will be between two Astros and Blue Jays. And then we'll do the randomizer for the MLB playoff spot giveaway. We got now. All right, so first one will be left, middle, right. And then it'll be Astros, Astros. And Blue Jays. And then, of course, everybody there. All right, here we go. Roll two and a five seven times. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Seven times, seven, seven, middle. I was gonna win that one. And then let's see who wins from the other ones. Seven times, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Blue Jays, how about that? Astros has a 66% chance. Blue Jays, Harry. Last one here, guys. Will be the last randomizer. Seven times, number one gets that spot in the promo. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. Seven times, and the winner is going to be Tristan. Congratulations, buddy. Boom, after seven times. You were the first one in the postseason MLB. Right there. So there you go, appreciate it. And again, guys, more of those promo breaks in the store, guys. Sapphire Fillers down to 19. We got five left in the R&B for Diamond Icons. I'll post up another Sapphire right now. A lot of breaks are in single digits, or a filler away, guys. Appreciate it at Jaspyscasefakes.com.


So, I usually try to caution people against putting too much stock in any one poll because polling data is just more stable. It's more reliable at the aggregate level. So what you really want to do is step back and look at all of the polls and try to gauge where the candidates are at. But that being said, though, I'm going to make an exception for this segment one because I want to talk about a poll that produces results that I am really excited about. So I'm kind of a hypocrite admittedly. But second of all, I think that this could be possibly the continuation of what may be a trend change in this 2020 election. So we were all waiting to see how Bernie Sanders' post-debate endorsements from AOC and Ilhan Omar helped his campaign. And it turns out that one poll from Emerson shows that it had a tremendous impact on this race. So according to an Emerson poll that was conducted between October 18th through 21st, Bernie Sanders jumped from a distant third place to a solid second place, putting him just two points behind Joe Biden at 25 percent and four points ahead of Elizabeth Warren. So this is a substantial leap. But there's even more good news because among 18 to 29 year olds, Bernie Sanders absolutely dominates with 45 percent overall, getting more than the next three candidates combined. So it's not even close. Bernie Sanders is the candidate of young people. Now this could very well be an outlier. So I want you to be cautiously optimistic.  But still, there's a lot of really valuable information here in this poll. It tells us that Bernie Sanders support among young voters. It's higher than we thought it was, right? This is huge. But on top of that, I'm starting to think that maybe this is the continuation of a new trend because when Bernie Sanders had his heart attack, if you look at real clear politics pulling averages, he dropped to 14.3 percent, but he started to shift towards a more upward trajectory. And now he's nearly at 17 percent on average, whereas Elizabeth Warren is on a relative downward trajectory while Joe Biden had a sharp increase followed by a fairly stable lead, although he has since evened out. So out of the top three front runners, it seems as if Bernie Sanders is the one currently at this moment in time with the momentum, the upward momentum. So I don't want you guys to just think that now is the time to feel energized because of this poll. What this poll tells us and what many polls have indicated is that Bernie Sanders by far and away is the candidate of young voters.   We can make or break it. Now, a lot of people complain about the validity of polls because there's this accusation that they under-sample young voters intentionally. But I need you to understand that these polls are based off of polling trends or voting trends rather. So in the last election cycle, if voter turnout for young people was low, that's basically what they're going to target for their sample when they do polls for the following elections. So just because Bernie Sanders isn't polling in first place, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to lose. He can literally outperform the polls. It's just a matter of, will we do it?  Will we caucus for Bernie Sanders? 30 years from now, I made this point on Anna Kasparian's no filter this week. We are going to look back at this moment in time and remember Bernie Sanders, win or lose. And we're going to either say that that was a moment where we squandered the opportunity we had to get Bernie Sanders elected and put us towards social democracy, or will we look back to this moment in time and say that was the start of a political revolution that made America a global leader when it comes to green, clean renewable technology where we got Medicare for all, where we canceled student debt. Like this election can be decided by us. Will we actually seize on this moment as young people and take our future into our own hands and vote for the candidate that we know is looking out for us?  But really, what we need to do is put in the work. You're never going to be able to win anything in life without putting in time, without putting in effort. So if you're worried about your fellow millennials or Gen Zers not coming out to support Bernie Sanders, change their minds, convince them. Maybe they support Bernie Sanders, but they feel as if their vote is meaningless. Maybe they feel as if it's not worth the time and effort to register, to stand in line and vote, change their mind, convince them otherwise. Because you know, a lot of people at that moment when Bernie Sanders had a heart attack in media, they wanted you to think that it was over, it was done. But we have three months before anyone casts a single vote or caucuses for Bernie Sanders. We can change this. We can decide this single-handedly. We just need to fight. That's it. So again, I usually don't like to dwell on the results from any one individual poll. I'm making an exception here because I think that we all need a little glimmer of hope in this moment after the couple of weeks that we've had. And this is a good indication that Bernie Sanders may be on the rise. He may be surging. He may be getting a second win. And that's really, really nice to see.


Ever tell you about this sorcery I knew? Couldn't stop talking about how useful they are as creatures. Because you can brew potions from their blood? No. Because by eating rotting corpses they prevent epidemics. Hm. Did he know they eat the living as well? No. Really upset him too. His theory collapsed. More is not exactly going our way. We have a side. The northern realms. We're out of its realms, don't you mean? This area and dead are no more. The rod of its pledge to restore the old borders. As soon as he wins the war. Believe that. Gotta believe something. That's what keeps us going. Ever tell you about this sorcery I knew? Couldn't stop talking about how useful they are as creatures. Because you can brew potions from their blood? No. Because by eating rotting corpses they prevent epidemics. Hm. Did he know they eat the living as well? No. Really upset him too. His theory collapsed. Oh, it's not exactly going our way. We have a side. The Northern realms. We're out of its realms, don't you mean? Tameria and Eddern are no more. Radovitz pledged to restore the old borders, soon as he wins the war. Believe that. Got to believe something is what keeps us going.


So thank you everyone for coming. We're going to talk to you a little bit about the project We've been working on that read-outs as part of the automotive program and that's that has to do with managing services across different nodes So a few a few things to know I'm sure she won a pingoo. This is Michael that I'd like to introduce himself Yeah We have a logo so the cow team is the container on wheels teams you can see the logo on the on the top right and Because we have a logo we have stickers So if you have questions at the end will hand out stickers and you stick around we may still give you stickers if you want them So without further ado, what are we going to be talking about here? I'm going to be giving you a little bit of the introduction of the setting up the context of the challenges for running the for the automotive industries and what led us to you know, to get to that Militano service controller The the challenges of the automotive industries are multi facets One of the facets that has to do with this is it's a very very competitive landscape There are many Automative, you know car manufacturers around the world and some of them are very old You should take Pedro Pedro was found in an 1810 before the first car was even created Pedro was originally a kitchen appliance company. They were building kitchen tools Which is also why you can still find in some places a pleasure branded salt and paper grinder But then you know at the end of this at the end of century that started working on their first car in 1889 and Pedro is worth about 50 billion dollars today If you look at General Motors, which is the second car manufacturer worldwide It was founded in 18 in 1908. It's 47 billion. So if we look at the you know number two number two three and four from the bottom here we have Ford which is also a Very famous and you know pre-hauled automotive company that we all know about from our history books and economy classes about the Way for does industrialize the production of automotive. They're all about the same weight when we look at market capitalization Then we have Toyota Toyota is today the first car manufacturer in the world in the number of car produced per year Toyota leads the leads and it was created in 1937 Toyota is worth about four times as much as the previous three But then we have we have the young king around the block during the young kid around the block. That's Tesla Tesla is barely 20 years old. It's not even legal to drink in the US yet And yet it's weights Nearly, you know, 12 times as much as Ford that was created 100 years before So this lies doing something in the automotive industry that is, you know That is changing the landscape of things that is it's building something that the market is Believing in and that is a challenge for the old Automotive companies because they suddenly realize that, you know, there's a kid on the block that just created They just appeared and it's already weighing 10 times as much as I do and I've been there for a long time I'm an old timer So that's that's a that's a challenge. That's something they need to address What does Tesla do that we are not and that makes them at this place here? So then that's something they need to look into Something else that has changed over the last few years was COVID-19 and as much as we like that this is over The the the rip holes of that of that pandemic are still around there and one of the side effects was the ship shortage And we're still recovering from that I don't have a sources for that but I had heard at some point that During the pandemic car manufacturers would have been able to sell twice as many cars as they did Except they couldn't produce them They had customers they had, you know, they are salesmen sales. They are the customers. They just couldn't produce the product Just because of the ship shortage So that leads to some decision that needs to be met Something else that a change to do to the industry is the user expectations We no longer see we no longer have the same relationship that we have with our IT systems as we used to and one of the reason is simply our smartphones You update your smartphones. Apple is well known to be able to update the operating systems over the lifetime of the hardware Samsung as as announced a few years ago that they are now supporting the hardware for five years There is an expectation about the portability. There is an expectation about Life-cycle for our hardware that has changed. We we want updates. We want features We are we expecting that and when you get into a car and you realize a brand new car as Information in it that is maybe older that the brand new car that has been bought before Simply because car number two was actually started before the program for car number two was started before the program for car number one Something's wrong. I actually witnessed this myself. I had you know a friend of mine, but a Fairly fairly decent recent car brand new and the GPS that I was older than the car Which I had bought new few years before It's just that the car the model year of the car that he bought was older than the model year of the car that I bought Even though it was newer outside of the factory So our user expectation have changed something else that the automotive industry is looking at is this Devisification of revenue just being able when you sell a car you have no guarantee You know you sell it you have one you have income from one time But how can we make that income persist of a time? How can I make more money from the single car and? This There are a few ways that the industry is looking into all of these problems One of them is okay. We have a ship throttage. So we need to revise how we are building our cars means to revise. What's the onboard? Computing systems looked like so this is a slide from an XP which I found in one of the publication Which goes to what we currently have today It's called domain vehicle architecture domain architecture where you have a lot of small distinct Compute units across the car like a modern car can have nearly about hundred different computing units When you're looking for when you have a shortage of ships you can understand that's building difference under a distinct Computing it in the car is problem. So what they are looking into is more what they're called zonal architecture And the idea behind that is that you have less distinct ECUs that are really dedicated to something specific and more Bigger issues that are get our able of handling multiple of these discrepancies use tasks So you have less hardware, but bigger at where more more Powerful out where but also the other way that can potentially evolve over time the other way that is no longer Designed to be exactly doing this one task, but it is produced with a design that it may be doing something else in the future so the architecture of the of the vehicles are being worked on but The other way is only a part of the story the software becomes the other part of the story We need to we there is this concept called software defined vehicle and the idea is that by changing the software in the car We are able to change the experience of the driver in the car We are able to make the car evolve during its lifetime, but we're also able to customize it to the user's desires and wishes and needs So software defined vehicle, you know revising the architecture revising the hardware is part one revising the software How do we approach software in the car is part two and then? So what's the vision the vision ends up to be something that is very very similar to what we have on our smartphones We want to be able to do software updates And we want to be able to do that over the air just like you update your Android phone or your iOS phone Just by plugging it to the Wi-Fi You want to be able to to update the hardware? Well in the car still going to be you know take the car to the car dealer and potentially get a new a new computer in it That is more powerful Just like you go to your phone store and change your phone You want to be able to have? Applications being able to install these applications dynamically these application may give you new capabilities new features You know if you look at if you look at Tesla a few years ago There was an update to Tesla that has increased the cup the actual engine the the That has increased the horsepower of the engines basically you bought the car It was 150 horsepower so you update the software your car is 155 force powers Simply because they were able to optimize the way the software was able to get you know Working with the engine and just by changing the software They actually changed the physical capabilities of the car suddenly the car is going faster so then in the car is more powerful You know new features new capabilities can be also something fun.  So the car is going to drive itself to the garage Like who would not want that? Customization and building an experience. That's lots is more interesting It's like you know when you you're able to start to customize the experience of the driver based on the driver's Preferences which means you can build habits and when the car when the time comes to change your car You're actually going to try to find these habits that you've built in your car And therefore you try to build fidelity to a certain brand So how do we get there? I've already mentioned we simplified the hardware We also want to standardize and that's a place where the red out in vehicle OS becomes interesting It's a red out has been always very strong about start out and open start out in particular So having an operating system that relies on these standards or actually help developing on top of it and then we spoke about You know customization applications, so we spoke about container basically we want containers for process isolation That's been covered a little bit this morning about being able to ensure that processes do not interact with each other when they should not They don't impact one another Container also means that there are a specific life cycle management which we're used to so we can install we can update we can remove containers and Let's be honest container is is that they factor you know standards now in our industry Which means you know talent acquisition for car manufacturer become easier if they don't have they have to learn the specificities Often automotive product, but they don't have to relearn the entire ecosystems around it When we speak about containers, we want to speak about with an s then we want to speak about orchestrations as well and today when you think about container orchestrations We're practically speaking with communities. So I'm going to address the elephant in the room here Do we want communities in a car? And I already see someone say don't spoil it Leave the answer to some to other people So the answer is okay I'm going to spoil it We don't want communities in the car and there are a few reasons for that one of them is Covenities is built around the concept of eventual consistency Which means there is no guarantee when a change will be applied But there is so no guarantee of the order in which changes are going to be applied The extreme example that we always take but it's it's technically not a good example But it's always helped to understand it's like, you know You don't want to be driving car that will say is that you press a you press the brake pedal and then suddenly Eventually your car will break that is not an experience you want to do It's a bad example because we're not actually going to be involved in the brake systems But it gives the it gives the idea you want you don't want a car that Is working towards a state you want to be either in state a and state b you don't want to be somewhere along the journey You don't know exactly where And that's something else is that Kubernetes is fairly heavy weight Kubernetes and its derivative have been built around the container runtime that at that time was not able to give a Studies to to signify and when something had changed so Kubernetes have been built around the idea of I can't get the information So I need to go and get it you can't give it to me So I'm going I'm going to get it. So it's always asking like At some points it takes resources There was a consortium that did some investigation on that and on Raspberry Pi granted it's fairly low device But you know 15 to 20 percent of their system resources were used by Kubernetes Just doing nothing just communities being there and poking the container runtime asking how you done yet? Are you done yet? Are you done yet? Communities is a is a meant for distributed system. It's meant. It's great for cloud environment It's meant. It's great for worldwide distributed system But that also makes it a very complex system and a lot of that complexity is not needed in a car Things like end-demand scaling scaling out, you know, you I'm suddenly running It's black Friday in the US my store has a lot of input suddenly for for the sales You know being able to scale out to a pivley cloud so that I can get more resources so that I can accommodate to this sudden influx of Data makes sense But in a car you're not going to have that sudden influx of data The amount of data that you get from the review camera is going to be the all what is always going to be the same thing So that's killing out simply is not needed in a car a lot of that complexity that makes Kubernetes great in a number of environments especially the cloud environment just is not applicable in car another example is failures Kubernetes is designed around the or on the idea that you know if some of the pod fails is going to do its best to keep things working When something fails in a car, you don't want to keep working if something else in the car You want to know about it and you want to tell the drivers to take over and you know Take over the driving of the car put the car on the side of the road You don't want to keep working as best as I can even chilly No, I can't detect pedestrian anymore, but you know, that'd be all right. It's not acceptable in a car so What do we need we need something that's deterministic we need to know what runs where it runs when it runs We need something that is lightweight. We can't we have a resource constraints environments. We know something that is fast You use an expectation when you're driving your car you want things to work You want things to start you don't want to wait for things to be available and You know, it's it's a small bullet point here But it's actually one of the core element of what we are looking into is the functional safety foods up The functional safety certification is basically Certifying that your code is doing what you claim that it is doing that if I ask for it to write a Certain content in a file is going to write that content in a file and the more complex the system here is You know the more harder the functional safety certification process is going to be because you're going to have to go through every Function that are used in your code base and ensure that they are doing exactly what you say they are doing so To answer these all of this problematic we've worked on something called here to and I let Michael introduce it to you Thanks beer, so yeah as you already mentioned here is our answer to it and The basic idea behind it is to use system D to control local services on one machine But adding a thin layer on top of it. We are able to Manage those units remotely It's important to note here that we don't want to manage any state or so. We are just the facilitator of this management and Our approach here is to build a setup or a system that consists of Two components basically the controlling component we call here to that one is running on the main machine and This one is controlling of course, then all the connected agents So the here to agent is then running on each managed node And it gets basically the commands from her to and forwards them to system D So we are able to remotely start stop Well control units on remote machines We decided to go here and implement this with C considering those constraints to be as fast and lightweight as possible and Hopefully in the future to Frusa certified As the IPC mechanism we chose deep us Well since it was already used in system D and if you're wondering now How this is exactly being set up in here to Well, I'm going to show you So here to is running on the main node, which you see here on the left It reads on startup a configuration file where we can specify of course all kinds of settings For example the port that is listening for new connections It then goes ahead connects itself to the local system bus And provides a public API to it. So that other external applications for example, I guess state manager could use those this API to Control the whole system We already implemented something like here to CTL, which is Similar to system CTL from system D, but for a multi node use case and On the other side, we have the managed node Where a here-to-agent is running again reading some configuration for example where we have settings like the IP address of the main node and The agent connects itself to the local system DD bus via Unix domain socket And by this we are already able in the agent to control services on the managed node But the agent then goes ahead and wants to connect itself to her to based on the settings that we specified Namely it issues a connection request over TCP IP And here to itself response by creating a peer-to-peer debuts This peer-to-peer debuts is used exclusively between here to and the respective agent More on that later In addition here to does a look up When the agent registers it does a look up and checks if it can't find for example that then the node the node name and If you can't find the node name it rejects the whole connection request if it can't find it if it can Find it then it accepts the connection With that we are already able to control those units on remote nodes and of course we can Scale up so from one to end nodes which we all specify upfront in what those disconfiguration file and As you can see here on the left side on the main node We can of course run the here to agent alongside here to with basically the same mechanism, of course One question that might already arise is how do we deal with cross node dependencies like Like in this example here Consider we have the setup on the left side, we have a node new foo on the right side a node bar and Both are connected to here to and now we want to start the cow service on the node foo What we don't know yet is that the cow service requires the sheep service to run on the node bar Well How could we resolve that the kind of dependency? for once like I said we could use an external state manager that Basically uses the here to API but already knows that the cow service requires the sheep service So it would first start the sheep service Wait for it to run and then start the cow service What we added however was a feature the so-called proxy feature to push this dependency Resolving to to system D that a developer could at development time define Okay, I need the sheep service to run on node bar for the cow service and It works roughly like this You see here on the lower left side that the cow service requires a so-called template unit This is a unit file that here to provides to the developer Where you can pass in the tuple After the ad symbol for node underscore the unit so You specify the name of the unit that you require and the note that you expect this unit to be run on In our case We want to have the and that's actually a mistake It should be the sheep service Here's so it should be like hurt the minus proxy at bar underscore sheep service Please substitute you substitute that Which this template unit then Takes and passes it to a small binary to hit the proxy Which in turn? Separates those two input parameters and does a API call to the agent It's important to note that this API call is blocking so the proxy waits for the whole flow so It can distinguish between a successful or a failed set up and therefore this can reflect then of course in the cow service The agent forwards that request to here to Here to knows now on which node to run which unit so it creates a start request on the note bar in our example and It wants to start another template unit. We don't want to start it directly because then we cannot Because then we kind of limit the ability of the developer by using a template in between a template unit in between The developer has all the freedom to specify and define the sheep service. However, he wants it to run This template unit again then has a very weak dependency on the requested unit Meaning if it's not already running, we will start it But if it's already starting started then we don't care nothing happens basically Important to note. However, is that here to will keep track of all the references on The node unit tuple so we know basically when well, how many references there are and With this setup we Can already resolve this dependency Just by using already existing system D features and Of course we can do so by on development time. So to say Yeah after this And now I have a few examples that I can show you which I pre-recorded First of all for these examples, I use this setup I started a raspberry pi and Had an here-to-agent running on it And I also run here-to-agent on my laptop connecting both to here to which was also running on my laptop. I Was interacting with the system by using our built here to CTL and well, the first thing that comes to mind is Listing all the units that are on those nodes. So in this example I Varyed for all nodes the the units that are running or not running and I filtered them based on their name In this Specific case I wanted to have all units with the name that contain the bus in it So we see for example the bus service and bus socket on the laptop which are in an active state and are running But we also see for example some devices that are plugged We can also start and stop system the units in this case I first Filtered of course for the specific cow service that I wanted to start And we see that is currently in an inactive state and dead Then I started the the cow service with here to CTL start on the pi cow service and Often querying it again. We see it's active and running Again stopping same same procedures always stopping it here to CTL stop pi cow dot service listing again, and it's inactive and dead again When Starting this the scowl service I created beforehand a monitor So you can imagine those start and stop operations always involve some state changes internally on system D side So what if we wanted to to get notified on certain changes? We can set up a monitor with for example here to CTL monitor, and I wanted to get all units on the pi And this cut example because otherwise it got too large just shows the state changes between The states of the cow service. So you see in The second one you see that it currently had an inactive state then it changed to activating and finally it reached an active state and Of course, I could now probably Do some different operations if I need to And the last example is kind of similar Which is here to CTL monitor node minus connection. So As the name basically suggests we can also monitor the state of the nodes In this example, you see that the laptop and the pi were online then I went ahead on the agent On on the Raspberry Pi stop the agent and this immediately got reflected on this monitor So the pi was stated as flying Which is especially useful if I want to health monitor my system and do some Operations or have some fallbacks based on it Yeah, and that's already it some some questions So System they already has the mechanism to do remote connection But one of the system they already has a built-in mechanism to the remote connection But that's remote connection relies on SSH And SSH is not something we want to be running in the car because SSH cannot be Can hardly be limited in this cup It gives you a full set shell section which means if someone plays around in the car and gets a shell access to one of the Computing it it's not actually something we want and by by using the agent and the control We are actually able to expose in one port only the you know the management to control services You won't be able to install a root kit by you know by this because you can only control system services The other problems. No, so that's part one the the other question is Doing this in system itself is something that we've been thinking about we would love to to be able to have it in system proper But there was a timing perspective Being able to work with the system the community to to polish it and make it to up to the system these standards We probably have taken more time than we were then we are available to get this project in a state where it's usable So I would still love to do to see that happening, but I it's we also needed to you know Figuring out is this what we wanted? You know we started with a concept. We talked with the car manufacturer that we're involved in does that satisfy your solution? Do you see things that are missing? This presentation is still something about us trying to figure out Are there seen missing are we missing something in the picture here? Are we did we forget something? There are always more brains in two heads than in one So there is always a capability that we've that we overseen something and if we were to implement that in system Did and we would not have the flexibility about potentially, you know changing our approach if we needed to So that would be mark my questions. We needed to validate our power approach We cannot use SSH and doing it in system in proper would be ideal I The question is about leveraging system D for dependency resolution and it's exactly what we want to do That's why we've implemented the process service because we don't want to have to deal with Figuring out the order. What can I start in parallel? What needs to be sequential and since and your ideas over the logic and it's built for that So we actually want to leverage as much as system Yes, we can and we try to to complement it rather than we implement it I Take you I'm trying to see if I understood if I understood all the question So basically your question is if we already have a project where we applied here to or So did we start by considering communities before we implemented it? Yes, we did but we built the analysis that I have presented earlier We and we did the analysis that I presented earlier and figure that despite a lot of people being asked Asking us I want we want to run communities in the cars We conclude that communities is great too but not to run in the specific environment that carries Because it's complex because it says it's heavyweight because the complexity is going to make the functional safety analysis practically impossible Because it's it has the eventual consistency that is built around So all of these make it like yeah, it's it's not suitable for the in-carb Yeah, one of the things that and I think it's gonna have to be the last question because we're out of time one of the things that a Kubernetes does it that it's very hard to ask to impose communities run certain payloads on certain systems and in the automotive world You need to be able to test the entirety of your system in bench in silico in bench before you actually start in the car So that you covered all of your basis when it comes with I have a critical system that I need to ensure that this critical system always have enough resources and then the question of the dynamism of I want this container to run wherever there are resources is actually something that Is being considered, but we don't have a monster We don't have the proper answer for it yet because we still need to ensure that you know adding adding an extra container adding an extra container on a specific system is not going to interfere with critical critical systems that are already running in there. So there is The environment the in-carb in vehicle environments is a lot can be a lot more static than what is used to deal with and that's They are basically built really for different worlds and there is it's going to be hard to make communities work for Front-end TVs guys, but I think we're going to have to stop in here We can finish outside