We're gonna do it how you want boss check it check it It's a unique house issue boy e ceo, and I'm here with the lovely amazing official miss Jamaica. What's going on? No, no my dad walk on hey man. Hey, we got another a another banger for you today man Hey, man, this guy don't need no introduction. Y'all know I always say that I'm famous for the this guy Don't need no introduction man. Hey, man. What's up shorty 40? What's good man out of 903 man?  Oh, oh you sure.  Yeah, yeah But I've been in two on four for a long time man 30 plus man. You know I'm saying so I mean my roots is all over the place man, but this ain't about me man today This ain't about me man. This is about short at 40. Where the 40 come from. I know you you're not in your 40s yet No, man, you know the 40 is actually you know For when you know I'm a big, you know artillery ammunition type guy. So, you know All my guns mostly was hidden in the bushes hidden behind the air compressor, you know every time they found a gun It was the 40, you know My granny well my aunt she stay in the house off for burning and 42nd in Los Angeles So see the little short red guy come off, you know with that creak alone and stuff.  Yeah, wow Grandma just say Quinn Quinn Quinn Quinn.  So so man. Let's let's get into his background a little bit Let's find out who he really is right what make him tick tell us about yourself growing up and what you what you grow up at well You know your childhood a star foot feel great basically, you know, I'm saying so North Dallas, you know, I'm saying the wildflower apartments 924 units three phases. So, you know, uh, Always had it instilled in me you know to be wealthy but Three elements to get there. I already had it in my mind one you're gonna be a Marine to You do on play for the Detroit pistons and how old are you when you're thinking like this? That's like 11 In my blood, you know, I'm saying all the way came from Detroit pistons. Are you so small? Yes. Yes. That's the thing. You know quick with it. You know saying Detroit either Marine Detroit pistons or a rapper, you know Blackie in the inner city like a rapper, you know, I'm saying so, um From there, you know, I had it like Ambition always had to try to get some money. I'm saying I got to have some money You know at 11 years old in fifth grade you can't work legally So you either got to go panhandling cuz somebody yard rate some leaves It's it, you know to get some money in your pocket But you gotta think about I'm so ambitious that I'm going to the office in the wildflower apartments You know telling the Lisa agents. Amen. You got so you got a job I can do, you know, I'm out of school No sense. You say, you know what?  So I'm gonna give you $20 every time to make this man in here Mm-hmm. You know just to put some money in your pocket. I'm like, okay, okay So my granny stayed there for nine years. So from fifth grade to About ninth grade fifth grade Coming in to sixth grade, you know saying I was doing all that Well, I started coming beat the whole status in the apartment. So now from there, I Know all the phases. I know who moving in. I know what's doing behind phase one. I know Who doing my face? So who did you get his mindset from? Like your dad your mom was he the thing is my mom she was a hard-working brainiac. Okay, my dad was a hustler Okay, so you combination of both combination of both. Okay, you know, so, uh So what was tell me a lesson that?  Okay, so I'm gonna hit initiate Initiation of that. I'm gonna say my mom.  I'm saying be independent Don't take people word for what it is see actions before people speak, you know saying And you know my dad, you know, whether he on the phone or behind bars or whatever He said Be your own man, you know, I'm saying Customize your woman for you. No, I'm saying your woman should be wearing a Louis Vuitton. She should be wearing MCM She shouldn't be wearing diaries. I used to that here. Yeah, that's it. You know I'm a whammy so she should go the thousand dollars I get go to the embroidery get whammy rhythm now. I want to see whammy purse. I want to see whammy cologne I want to see you and me.   Basically. Oh cool. All right, then so Coming up. Did you ever get into any trouble or any any trouble ever knock at your door?     I got to pick it up I see him walking around bullets on the glow. Okay. It's got a gun.  I said But we got that I sold that for like a hundred.  Yeah, I sold that to a Jamaican actually who stayed across the street from me About two days later, I didn't see her, you know saying cuz I always go get her We're about to do something she might look out so she basically my bread and butter, you know I'm barring my moped and I'm talk to the ethos. Hey, bro. You see you see in jazz No, it doesn't see a jasmine, you know, go look at the mischus.  She was over there, right? Well, what the gate is over there?  Like, you know, you know that mischievous man we started going from he did this for me I am okay, but you know now one thing about me Another thing from my hustling mentality. I was always fearless like nothing scared me I don't know what it was.  So I couldn't find him, but I know that his aunt had the had a little party and His own got kids and stuff. So they blow up the balloon. What's those balloon where you slide down and stuff? Battles houses.   So that was that, you know, that's the only revenge You got because I ain't want to do too much because I know because I know And you didn't got in trouble behind it. That's the thing That's why didn't go to him cuz he could have put that to the off them, you know My granny and you at 12 at this time 12 going on 13. Yeah, she Beat up a 12 year old. He beat up a little girl. So the girl that was you look at how old was she? She was a great two grades young lower than me and he said so she younger than you Yes, you younger than me or she was like she played basketball the next two years after that It's one that's when I really had a crazy that he would even jump on a young kid like and he was a grown man, right? Man that he got off easy. Yeah, so I ain't never tell nobody about that. I kept that to myself Yeah, let me ask you this man cuz of being that you then you yell the bees is cousin Yeah, that's that's that's so I so so did that influence you on the rap game any to where you wanted to rap even more No, see the thing with me. I know you didn't you didn't end up rapping and when you say He like he like second and third I believe I like second my granny my granny is Cousin with his mom Okay, so that side of the family is the bells. That's the major the bells is large His side is the rust and the conways, but we don't call him yellow.  Yeah, so That that that ever there was that ever something influence you in the in the music when you seem like damn me making it No, this is this what happened like like you knew the nigga before he was even rapping Yeah, this is what happened though. I didn't find out that he made it is when it was when I was in Edward Waters College Back in Florida, you know, so I was in college at the time when he made it, you know, I'm saying um, I Used Facebook to connect with my family when I was in Florida. So I hit up, you know, my uncle goonie My granny and like how y'all doing? She's like, you know your cousin's on the radio.  No, that's something that's on me I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's him Like who he signed with LA Reed. Okay, so I hit him up on this on real Facebook. I wrote it so cuz well Congratulations, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, that's it.  I'm I'll let you I guess he was busy at the time. So now that hey man more money You got more stuff to do. Yeah, I always been a fan of his man being in Dallas and all the all the who bloody go on man, the the old clip versus everybody look like You know cuz cuz they you know Yeah, they doing a thing over there and and The the the hoop lot it comes with with all the stuff that's went on in Dallas What do you think about that all the beef in and all that how can we help Dallas to come together and love again?  Yeah Dallas cats. I'm gonna be real Keep on it. No Dallas cats You really got a fourth of mentality. They don't know you need because this city in itself It's more Privilege and make your uncle We got privilege and make your make your uncle.   They're not privileged. So they have to work for it. Okay. I won't perform a word for this You know saying this empire.  I think I think Dallas really need to cats need to go out and travel more, you know Most I say them need they need to go to Atlanta see how brothers, you know, Sam chunk of thousand dollars You know saying go get just go to studio time brought this on me, you know, I'm saying instead of just I'm entirely like Dating enough thousand dollars Like I like I live in a lot of places The unit is what need to be done before we do anything Unified well, what about poor boy finance?  What because you are business owner? Yeah, yeah, so business-minded business owner Poor boy finance break down. How did well, how did you come up with that? No, uh, the pole boy basically, you know I'm wondering The low-income audience, you know, I'm selling willing to help the local income audience I'm basically all about the low income house and I'm about the low income audience, you know For example, I'm a target a feeling, you know, I'm saying I'm not seeing a feeling lifestyle Malou a he can't get no job. He can't move in a certain apartment. He got to use somebody name. What's the name? I'm willing to pull up in my car in the suit, bro. Hey, let me come come. Come. Let me with the session for you On me. I'm gonna wave your feet. I'm gonna wave your concentration fee.  Are you a pen that fell in or convict the fellow whatever position he is your pen Okay, this is spectrum right here This is a list of jobs right here for you saying feel is out for me. I contact the HR I get you started Monday.   You know I'm saying they wouldn't start y'all from your CD up blah blah blah this blah blah, but they Here, uh, you got some money. I say he got 25 to $50 go to capital one. Don't go to first Don't go to Bank of America capital one got no maintenance fees. They You know good on the savings, you know percentage, so I'm willing to Dyset the po-boy Or the felon I wouldn't docet the felon Hold background and just uplift him to make him get back on the right track.  Okay. Yeah, I'm broken them up, but but Me working on those three jobs. I'll put that money up and this guy He knew is that I had a African chain on you're like, bro.  I'm like, what we are moors. You know that? I'm like, I don't know what was a more Like, you know, I'm a knowledge seeker. I thought it like me on this like moors. We watch rule the world No, I'm saying we started off in Morocco. We span it to Italy.  One thing about me, you know, I do research Mm-hmm.   It was college I got accepted to a lot of cost, but It will Edward Waters College in Jacksonville, Florida was the one I attended and what did you? specializing at a college it was a Business administration and first I was about to go to the bathroom cooking, but Edward Waters College gave me the better deal Mm-hmm. You know I'm saying that's what it's all about. Yeah, HBCU all the way Mm-hmm, you know, but like I was saying like my laptop how so much light when I'm doing a lot of research My roommate like this nigga up like three or four in the morning still Yeah, bro, I gotta do research. I gotta know what I'm talking about. I'm like, I know what I put my foot in You know I'm saying I know you sleep, bro Shit, I'm going to um the other dorm room. No, Sam. You're so sleeping.  The company that you own solely and fully. Yeah, you're so cautious me I'm gonna turn this into a LLC. Okay, that's four months. And how long good did you start the business? I started poor boy finances Poor because it's not only fine. You do tax service. You do everything. Yeah, so poor boy is like the big umbrella Yeah over everything. Yeah So basically it's consultant taxes credit maintenance Financial advisory, and I'm sorry work my way up to Title loans and all you do everything by yourself or you have employees. I do everything by myself But I got an uncle who raised me. Mm-hmm whose Accountant slash loan officer who gave me key points on whether he assists you when you need it. Okay, man And when did you say you say you started this company? Let's say let's say established 2020 2020. Oh, so it just started let last year 2020. Okay, cool. You have a lot of clientele How are you getting your business out there? Uh-uh Talk to people person to person like if I go to like bars and open Pick up a book. Somebody in line. We talking. I might tell them a minute. This is my business Financial advisory sit down talk about cuz I'll just you know saying doing this Bitcoin, you know Knowledge and stuff we can sit down and do this and do that. You know, I'm saying I just go out I'd rather go out and talk to people Five of my clients I got from Facebook most of my clients. It's just people. I know do referrals You know and um nothing too. I just helped this lady out who worked in Mesquite. I set up her portfolio She was getting scheme scammed by this is not gerian over Bitcoin. I'm like How much you spend to do a month was for a so-called investment in Bitcoin?  She said I've been spending all this goddamn money, you know In this all this time. I could just win on cash up Right boy. Let me get your number and stuff like you know something like that.  Yeah, man, you know Like recently it came to my mind that if I want to take over the finance industry industry I Gotta have that competitive competitive edge. No Sam. I'm just a nigga that just went to HBCU Who doesn't remarkable in some numbers, but I'm going to yes Ivy League graduates CPAs CFLs with 20 years of experience and Goldman Sachs babies So I got a lot of they could Goldman Sachs is a big company and a lot of people go through them I'm saying I gotta go against them. So I really got to be on my a game. You know, that's why I said man I I'm willing to pay for Seminoles. I'm willing to pay, you know Anything where do you see yourself in the next next year? I'm not even gonna say two years in the next year Like you seem like your person can't everything out So you already have things in place to set you where you need to be in the next year Where do you see yourself in the next year? I see myself in the building Next year with the so you don't have a location right now. I don't have a location right now Well, actually I got office in Chicago. Okay, but it's an scrum I used to that city scum scumber, Illinois. It's like a suburb But nothing here in in Texas often to give one while I went office like with office in 10 Dallas Actually, I have them go to the we work once in virtual office a virtual office You can go pay for monthly for two to eight hours. I Do that in Dallas. Okay. Okay. So if you want to know how can people get in touch with you if they They want your service. I do give up my business number, which is uh Force is nine four four five nine zero zero three. That's one number my email Q whamsley at gmail.com my Facebook look with me whamsley Mrs. I'm a reply. So why should clientele come to you over anybody else because I work on a experience and personal personal level, you know, I'm willing to Take my time out of the day to actually get to your problem You know I'm saying like for example, you say that You owe something in collections. I can dig into your background and see how long this Been a delinquent, you know, I'm saying and see what she would give you the steps Which you need to do to execute that out to credit.  How long would it take for the turnaround for them to get their case worked on? Put it like that normally That's why I try to limit my clients for right now. Okay. No, I'm saying so, uh I can probably work on them the next day or In the next hour, you know, I'm saying cuz like I said when I told you about research I do that all day man I'm willing to sit here and till we get this done You know, I'm saying cuz you got to complete something till you go to next step, you know, I'm saying, um Just like you said, I got all these clients and stuff. Okay. I'm gonna help him right quick You help her in the next two hours. Help her the next two hours. You go Okay, I just want to know but thank you. What's the whole what's the what's the end goal for you? We'll talk about the first quarter of next year. Um What what are you planning to do to spin your business in the right direction going into 2022? I want to get I want to pay for some more classes to see what The finance looking like in the next five years. Yeah, because it's kind of cloudy right now Yeah, because we with the way the economy done with cove it and everything But I'm gonna tell you like this financial is from the turn digital So we can go financial technology So that's what I'm gonna tell you another secret too If you notice they limited they limited banks now so It's gonna be physical.  That's why bitcoin is so big right now Yeah, I'm not saying that's that's one reason what they let me they downsizing on banks, you know, I'm saying you have money in the safe paper is going to be That's that's obsolete Money paper that's gonna be out the bill, you know I'm saying, uh nothing too This is the this is the time now where credit is going to be I'm gonna tell you a secret The way my formula is Your your identity in this monopoly game. It's not your name It's not your social security It's your credit score Okay, you know, I'm gonna repeat that again. You can write this down.  It's your credit score You know, I'm saying that is your identity I I kind of agree with I kind of disagree why you disagree. Let me tell you because at the end of the day A person that has money doesn't need credit See That's what you call a league class But the main thing when it's dirty monopoly game is to have people It's get get people to not have money.  It's like don't even really have to matter how hard you work. You just gotta utilize your uh How can I say Utilize what you got, you know, I'm saying, uh, put that to work, you know what I'm saying for example me I didn't cut down on spending out on food. You know, I'm cooking now as a bachelor I'm actually cooking now. You know, I'm saying, uh That's saying me a lot of money me learn how to uh maintenance my um Toilet in my tub That's saying me a lot of money. You know I'm saying me Instead of going to go buy some clothes or some shoes or another gun I'll pay my credit card off double that So I'm like Utilizing this Where I'm not rich. I'm not poor but I'm I'm in stagnation for right now Why does why does the economy going down like this is okay to be stagnation? You know what 50% is right that stagnation.  Did you like california? I'm gonna tell you one thing about LA man. I'm gonna tell you I'm gonna tell you about LA and oakland It's my uncle's friend was from east oakland. I first started out in east oakland That's like the ghetto We moved like that poke boy answer that that would probably hit big oakland, you know, I'm saying that oakland's the ghetto, you know, I'm saying motherfucking uh Broken down victorians. No, they don't have houses houses. Everything crying in together.  So you know I'm saying they don't have much opportunities and doors than LA You know I'm saying so it's real rough out there. You know I'm saying, um When I first noticed out there Them guys fight over turf and territory and that pimps. You're still active out there.   Activity no, and I ask you that's because that's something that we've been talking about here lately on the show just how to really um How to mend and heal our people From whether it be gang violence whether it be for inner city violence or whatever the case may be We're looking at ways to try to Make everything Better we can't stop. Yeah, we can't we can't stop all the gang violence We can't stop every you know what I mean, but we can Like you say reshape or we can condense it down to where Somebody like you or me could speak up and change a little kid or young man's mind about Even being a part of something so you know something that has crippled our our people Whether it be gangs or whether it be Inner city violence. We're looking at ways to make things better to change the narrative Yeah, I'm gonna tell you something man I done had cats Who claim, you know, they Crips bloods gb's and stuff have no clue have I say bro? Okay, we're gonna go to uh chris house, bro. Uh you for this, right? Like, yeah, let's go to chris house. No Well, you got to go You know chris, right?    Yeah, you gotta make it to where it's something to where they can relate to it You know I like it man I love the fact that you least you have a mindset to help to try to change the narrative man I'm saying and thank you so much man. We love you brother.  Thank you so much for coming on the show, man. Okay boss boss talk 101 what the bosses have talked Yeah, check it man. It's going down man. It's another great segment of boss talk 101 and we have


Welcome to Art Resin 101. To get started with Art Resin, first prep your workspace and your art piece. Prop your piece up on stands, and make sure it's level. To determine how much Art Resin you'll need, use our resin coverage calculator. With Gloveson, pour by volume precisely equal amounts of room temperature Resin and Hardener into a mixing container. Stir your Resin and Hardener mixture thoroughly for at least three full minutes. You'll have about 45 minutes of working time to spread it before it starts to cure. Pour and spread the Art Resin as you see fit. We recommend using our artist torch to pop bubbles for a flawless finish. Pick out any hairs or dust particles and then cover the piece with a box. In about 24 hours, your piece will be hard to the touch. After 72 hours, it will be fully cured. Behold your wonderful creation!


Oh, there you have it. The Ravens are expected to sign Kenyan Barna. See, I had to make sure I said his name right, especially if he's gonna be joining the team, joining the squad. And, well, Kenyan Barna, what he specializes in is as a return man. And I came to found out through the comment section that it's a lot of people who part of Team Keep It Clean who are Kenyan Barna fans because they watched him in college. And somebody said, well, he's gonna be even better than the Anthony Thomas was. And I know for a lot of Ravens fans, they probably like, okay. But with Kenyan Barna, that's where he's expected to contribute the most and contribute immediately is in the return game. But something that I was thinking about and something that some other people had mentioned in the comment section too, is that with Kenyan Barna, not only can he help in the return game, but, and real quick, let's focus on the return game and how he'll help. And we covered this a bit before, but let's just do a quick review of it again. With him helping in the return game, he gives us a veteran with experience in the return game. Somebody who can be explosive, somebody who has created those big plays in the return game and still has the ability to create those big plays in the return game. Ravens current kick returners, punt returners, kick returners right now. Looking like Justice Hill, Chris Moore, not sure if they will put Pro Shade Duvenay back there, but Chris Moore, most likely. While it's not set in stone, but he would probably be the guy now. And with Chris Moore, we've seen him do some nice kick returns and whatnot, but the thing with Chris Moore is that he doesn't have that quick, where he can cut quick like that. I ain't got it either. I mean, y'all saw that, but anyway, straight line speed? Oh, that's him all day. That's him all day. But as far as being agile and being able to, not even necessarily just cut on a dime, but just be able to make somebody miss like that, that's something that Kenyan Barna brings to the Ravens. And what he has over guys like Justice Hill and also obviously James Pro Shade is the experience. He brings that experience to somebody that's been in the league for a while. And again, like we talked about yesterday, with James Pro Shade, while he is favored to win the punt return job, he doesn't have the experience. And a lot of times it's not a knock to the young guys. It's not a knock to the inexperienced guys when it comes to football teams, because a coach can know that a young guy has all the potential in the world, that he has just all the ability in the world. But if a team is ready, like they're not on the cusp, they're not a young up and coming to know Ravens are ready right now. They're literally ready to, they're not in win now mode, they're in win Super Bowl right now mode. So the way that a lot of coaches, they view things, they're like, yeah, hey, we know this young guy can do it, but we rather be safe than sorry. So a lot of those coaches, they will play it safe and they'll put a veteran, where a young guy may have the ability, but since he doesn't have the experience, they may go with a veteran in their place. Now, that's about the return game, again. But with Kenyan Barna, he's also a running back. He's a running back. So with Kenyan Barna being a running back, again, that's five running backs on this NFL roster. I know we have an undrafted rookie free agent. I believe his name is Tyson. My guy, Zeke King tells me about him all the time. I wanna Tyson something, my apologies. I don't remember his last name, but we have five running backs on the roster. Mark Ingram, Gus Edwards, J.K. Dobbins, Justice Hill and Kenyan Barna. So now with Mark Ingram this year, Mark Ingram completely safe. J.K. Dobbins was a second round draft pick, completely safe. Gus Edwards is a question mark, but for him, out of the five running backs, I would put him a lot more on the safe side than the other two that remain. I think right now, and I love him. I love him and I'm excited for him because I really wanna see what he can do, man. I really wanna see what he can do. But I think this puts a lot of pressure on Justice Hill, man. I think this puts a lot of pressure on Justice Hill, man. Because again, the active rosters this year, I think they might be 55, I always forget and I've been meaning to look it up just to get clarification on it, but whatever the active roster number is, it's hard for me to see the Ravens keeping five running backs, man. It was already hard enough for me to see them keeping four. But then I kinda like, okay, yeah, I can understand them, keep four, okay, whatever. But them keeping five and the thing about that too is like, man, with Kenyan Barna, he's a running back that if he did remain with the team, he has experience in contributing more than Justice Hill does. And I feel like that's one of the biggest things that's working against Justice Hill is the lack of experience, but he can't really control that because he was a rookie last year. He was a rookie. What, I think he was a fourth round pick? So, and again, Kenyan Barna, it's not a guarantee that he makes the team. It's not a guarantee. So I don't want anybody to think that, but he does create some immediate pressure because again, when you think about what he specializes in what he is, he's a return man. Who is the Ravens' clear cut return man right now? Clear cut, they don't have one. Again, Harbaugh did say the other day, Pro Shae was his favorite to win the job. He said it's his job to win. He said he's favorite to win the job, but like my guy, Zay King said in the comment section of that video, Harbaugh could say whatever he wants to right now. Coaches, they can say whatever they want to right now, but it doesn't matter until they actually play in football and then you get to see for yourself. And something that I've said with the Harbaugh company for the longest, especially around training camp time. And I gotta remind myself about this too sometimes is that seeing is believing. And usually when I reference this, it's more so when it comes to injuries. Like say for instance, if a guy's injured, oh, we expect him to return this week. He should be back this week. Say, don't get too excited. We'll get a little excited, but believe it when you see it. When you get that report, when you get that alert on your phone, oh, this person has returned to practice this week or today, then it's like, okay, they're back officially. And the same rule applies with this too. Seeing is believing and it really is. We wanna see it. We need to see it.  That's the one. Now, a lot of us, we all figured that, oh yeah, Pro Shae, that's gonna be our part returner. We've been saying that ever since he was drafted, but it's not set in stone. So since it's not set in stone, he brings that pressure. Kim Bonner brings that pressure. Kim Bonner presents that pressure, not only on James Pro Shae, but on the entire roster and whoever thought they were getting that return job, you got yet somebody else who brings in competition. And competition is a great thing because it brings out the best in everybody on the team. So this is a good thing. Now, somebody has to be released unfortunately. Who that is, we'll see probably by tonight or tomorrow because again, Ravens are expected to sign them. And like we talked about yesterday, right now you can't even bring anybody in that you're not expected to sign. If you bring somebody in, then you are expected to sign. Not that you have to sign them, but it has to be somebody you're seriously considering signing, not just bringing them in. Oh, we just need a quick workout. No, you need to be expecting because they want to limit the activity and whatnot that goes on. But with, that's the pressure that he creates in the return game, but again, also in the run game because he is a running back. So we got a Mark Anger, cool. We got a Gus Edwards, cool. We got a JK Dobbins, cool. That four spot, man. That four spot as a running back is going to go to somebody. It's gonna go to the guy who can contribute the most. That's who it's gonna go to. And again, with Justice Hill, it's so tricky. It's so tricky because he doesn't have the experience and this is his second year. This is his second year. So he hasn't even got to fully prove himself like that. And the thing that he has working against him is that for somebody that's not the starter, not even the second string guy, he is, and he's more expensive than the backup. Cause the backup is, well, he's not more expensive than JK Dobbins, but Gus Edwards. He's more expensive than him. Know why? Because he came in the fourth round last year, but Gus Edwards undrafted rookie free agent. He was an undrafted rookie free agent. So Ravens, they have limited financial ties with Gus Edwards. And they have him this year for like super cheap, like $700,000, I think. And then next year, he's super cheap as well. Cause next year he becomes a restricted free agent. And we'll see what kind of tender they place on him. But we had training camp, man. We are at training camp and the time is now, the position battles are now, and this thing is real, man. So something else that's real is my appreciation and my love for your team, Keep It Clean. Thank you for just everything. Y'all are crazy with the support. Y'all crazy with the energy. Y'all crazy with the love. And I love y'all 50 times back, man. So thank you. Shout out to Kian Barna. And A, when it comes to whatever position he's gonna be fighting for or positions, may the best men win. Team Keep It Clean, we out.


Okay, it's Thursday. I'm Jay Fidel. This is ThinkTech. In fact, this is talking tax with Tom And it should be no surprise that Tom joins us. Tom Yamachika, the president of the Hawaii Tax Foundation to learn about the fiscal policy and I guess the balance sheet and the budget for the state of Hawaii Which we all need to think about right now in the COVID time. Good morning, Tom. Nice to see your smile in face Hi, Jay. Thank you for having me on the show so here we are taking our bi-weekly snapshot And as we left this exciting story, we had a $2.3 billion shortfall in the budget We had spent remarkably 150 million For pay raises for the HGA employees, even though some of them are not working. They're at home not working And then we had read in the paper that we spent 20 million dollars for a footpath over Alamoana Which did not seem appropriate in these difficult times and what we're sharing the expense with the Howard Hughes Corporation on that But query do we really need it? Anyway, it just seems like things are askew. We are we are in we are moving Slowly or perhaps not so slowly over a cliff in terms of fiscal policy and the legislature I think it's closing this week. Is it I'm not sure they have achieved anything to deal with the problem Well, the legislature adjourned last week last Friday, right? Yeah, okay They're done and well, what did they do actually to deal with these problems? Well, it's as you say, I mean the the problems were kind of like sent up to the governor And now the governor can decide what what if anything to do about them the the pay raises for example I think the legislature Felt and this is from me talking with the you know few insiders that they really couldn't do anything about it so they sent it upstairs and The governor has more options like a vetoing the bill be Signing it or letting it become law but implementing budget restrictions which which he's done in the past he could also impose furloughs like the infamous furlough Fridays of a few years ago or Do other things to force the government to to be smaller and he's he's he's explicitly threatened to do some of these things With you know that the the union heads going off the deep end in response But you know what what what actually will be done? Yeah, well interesting when it came out. I think it was in civil beat and they had You know a I guess an appropriate list of who among the legislature voted for that voted against it and so forth I guess they knew there was this that's going to be pushed back on it And you know what a lot of people have said to me they don't like this bill at all They really ticked off at the people who voted for it because it didn't seem appropriate in a time of crisis What's your feedback on well, I mean I think You're absolutely right. I mean there are Some businesses that that aren't open and can't be open The proprietors of those business aren't making any income at all. There are people who have been laid off lots of people who've been laid off They're not getting any income period unless they can find other employment and then even with They're being on the street or On the in the unemployment lines. They're waiting for an employment checks and they're not coming because of the backlogs and other things that are Kind of reminiscent of what state government does Yeah, well, and the interesting I'm thinking back to a earlier discussion you and I had is that there are a lot of state employees at home being paid in full not doing anything and There was an effort To repurpose them and have them work for I guess the Department of Labor to process those Unemployment claims and checks, but they didn't want to do it. You know, they're being paid anyway And I guess that stayed that way that never got resolved. So we never got the extra work force Yeah, nothing that we've heard about anyway. Yeah Yeah, that's really tragic. I mean there was that With the unemployment processing the Department of Labor did set up a Site at the convention center for quote-unquote volunteers and some some, you know, folks actually did volunteer quote-unquote That you come into work and go there the volunteers included people from other departments as well as legislative staffers That's encouraging. I mean after all everybody tells us we're in this together. We have to work together We have to collaborate in every way possible to deal with the crisis and yet there are parts of state government that are not Really collaborating. I also saw in the paper recently this thing about the 20 million dollar state expense for a foot bath over Alamo one of this I recall The total cost of that is 30 million the Howard Hughes corporation is paying 10 million and the state is paying 20 million and It struck me as we managed to get along for a long time without a that a bridge over a footbridge over Alamo on Do we really need to spend that kind of money now? Who's watching the store? I thought we had people who were very careful about this kind of expenditure in the legislature the money committees How did this one get through? well The the budget builds a huge document it's hundreds of pages long and It's very easy for something to get you know to slip past I Also kind of brought attention to the Aloha Stadium The the current plan is for it to be developed by a public-private partnership The state shares going to be a lot of the order of 350 million dollars. So what about, you know, 10 or more times the Alamo on a footpath and So what are they going to build they're going to be a good entertainment district You know, it strikes me as we need to be entertained Yeah, well It's just the wrong time for that It strikes me that you know, there's this complacency and complacency You know, we have a major pandemic on our hands in the world You don't have to read the paper but five minutes a day and you can see or watch any new show on television And you can see how major this is and how threatening this is and yet You know, we focus on old issues old projects projects where you know, the advocates of the projects Don't consider COVID at all. They don't consider the pandemic at all. You'd think we changed our priorities But here we're sailing into a footpath a footbridge and a stadium expense of hundreds of millions when we're well, I think one of the problems is There's a huge huge time lag between You know when you can tee up a construction project and when it actually gets done at the federal level like for highways and so forth It's like it could be 20 years here it's, you know, five years depending on on how big the project is but You know Things like that cannot turn on a dime No, but you know, if you're in in a time of COVID, you know, the word is all hands-on deck Let's focus and it just doesn't seem to me that we're focusing That's definitely not happening So, okay, what's the status? Oh, we I wanted to ask you something in the paper late yesterday about about hearings In in the legislature, even though I guess the session is over now Questioning how well the administration David E. Gay was doing on his COVID His work, you know to deal with COVID and From the article it was not a friendly hearing at all. They were very critical of how the administration was doing Do you know about this? Were you there? No, but I do know that some of the legislative committees We're still meeting the the special COVID-19 committees. I think both the house and set it both have them They were still conducting hearings I'm not sure what is being accomplished you know now but I guess People need to debate and kind of figure out what to do if they haven't already done it. I mean, you know that the We would have hoped that that the That's bait so far would have helped, you know shape a plan for How we deal with the pandemic But where's the plan? It seems to if things seems to change day by day and You know, it's Just just recently for example the The reopening date for tourism that pushed back one month. I mean not not that it Wasn't needed probably was But it does underscore the fluid nature of these things.  Why you know What why is this this pandemic so raging when the other when other countries have gotten the control? What makes us so horrible Yeah In all fairness, I mean a lot of this has to do with Trump It's not just that he's not leading but he's actively confusing everybody Including especially the states who are watching him and listening to him and cannot get a beat on where to go So they don't make the same decision and they don't hold on their decisions Everything is coming out of Washington is Confusing disruptive and so forth. So I mean that you know, I give them credit I give the state some sympathy for that on the other hand, you know, we really haven't settled down on things We said we would do for example You know that the testing on the mainland before the passengers get on a plane I don't understand why that's not in place. That should be pretty basic. It should have been pretty basic a lot a long time ago So if there is a plan assuming there is a plan to do that. It's not being implemented. I Don't know. I don't know who's responsible, but whatever task force David E. Gay has in place You know should be under under the gun about that. Don't you think? You know that well that part of it was was put over 30 days as well So even if somebody gets a test a negative test and wants to jump on a plane, they'll still be quarantined once they're here Yeah, first well, it could happen right now There's no reason why it doesn't happen We're still operating on that quarantine 14 day quarantine thing By the way, there was a lawsuit by the ACLU in the federal court set aside that thing as in violation of the commerce clause Do you know the status of that? I Think there were there were two suits one of them went away and and I think the other one Was being argued. I think I think it's slated this week on you know motion for preliminary injunction or something like that Yeah, well that could change things suddenly if an injunction was issued one way or the other Okay, anyway, so let's talk about the unemployment insurance and how well it's doing because people are running out of their benefits And of course that $600 supplement from the federal government will run out too. Can you talk about that? well, what I can what I can talk about is how these unemployment benefits are funded we have a Supposedly self-correcting Unemployment insurance system The when the way it works is the tax rate is determined at the end of the year based on the employer's experience reading namely Whether it's had to pay a lot of money for claims and is you know kind of more prone to that kind of thing and By the overall health of the fund so Given that the overall health of the fund is one of the key factors. I think we are we're going to be looking at an automatic bump in all of the UI rates Come the end of the year and the beginning of next because it automatically kicks in based on the health of the fund the That part of the benefits that come from external sources like the 600 bucks from the feds or the 100 bucks from the state with Fed money, they don't count but but but the there is still a key component of the benefits that do come from the unemployment fund and That's what is measured at the end of the year And we have been paying out lots and lots of money So are you saying that the employer contribution will go up? Yes Wrong time for it to go up Well, I don't think people were really concentrating on it I mean there are it's it's an automatic thing and Automatically kicks in unless somebody steps in to stop it, which you know legislatures have in the past But I don't think they were focused on that this year Yeah, and they're again, they're out of session now Yeah, and the one the one tax bill that the that was passed during the session was One that relates to how we conform with the federal eternal revenue. So what it says is That for state purposes and state income tax, we are going to follow some of the key provisions Such as we're not going to treat PPP forgiveness as in We are going to allow the additional $300 above the line deduction for charitable contributions because the charities need money to We Are going to allow plan loans That are in increased limits like the like how the Fed does but there are some provisions that we're not going to adopt and For example The tax cuts and jobs act Changed how businesses can use a net operating losses like if you if you lose money one year And then you make money in the second can can you then use the past year's losses to offset current year's income? And the answer always used to be yes Under the tax cuts and jobs that you can only use 80% of the Current year's the current year's income to be offset by a prior your losses So even even if you have tons and tons and tons of prior your losses, you still have to pay 20% of the Of your current year's income no matter what What sort of reason for that are they need money? Thank you And so on the federal level they said okay, well businesses are hurting so So they will allow Businesses to absorb 100% of prior year losses into current income for 2020 and 2021 Okay Just as kind of a temporary measure they also allowed That operating losses to be carried back into previous years when you did have income and pay tax so the tax would come back to you State Decoupled from both of those provisions Saying okay, we're not going to allow carry back losses and we're not going to allow more than 80% to offset 80% of taxable income to be offset by net operating losses So this so we're going to be we're going to keep following the cat the tax custom jobs act now the the the issue really was Well, what kind of public discussion came, you know led to this and the answer is not Here's why the the bill that conforms our income tax law to the to the federal one is usually Put into play at the beginning of the year It incorporates the federal law changes to the end of last year so to to the end of For the December 31st, 2019 So that was kind of sailing sailing along through went through past the Senate and then COVID hit okay, so Lots of things then happened including in March the CARES Act passed and There was a big question regarding What if any changes in the CARES Act we would conform to? noting for example that we normally passed that bill at the end of Or as a beginning of next session because because you know 2020 changes usually are considered in 2021, but but we decided to pass some of them anyway But the way it came up was The bill that came over into house finance and typically this bill has a single referral on both sides It was basically the plain vanilla till 2019 end of 2019 changes You know some people including you know including our organizations and will you ought to pick up some of the some of the CARES Act stuff and It was the Department of Taxation that put together the bill says okay Well, let's confirm this but not that and the house finance case said okay, so they picked that up And the Senate said okay We won't disagree with the bill So often went to the governor's office that and that's where we are Was there public debate not really I mean the Capitol was still closed And I think we should we could have and should have I had some discussion about you know Which of the provisions we're going to pick up in wine Usually this this comes up in testimony and hearings At which people can you know Address the committee and give public input, but you know capitals closed this doesn't happen Well, usually this This bill to conform the state changes to the federal changes is It's a slam dunk. Isn't it? It's pro forma. You just take the federal changes and make them into state changes, right? No, there's actually a very interesting calculus that goes on the the tax department or whoever I Believe it is a tax department. They figure out whether some of the changes are going to cost the state money and And based on the price tag they can Recommend and do recommend a decoupling from certain provisions like most states When they did this kind of bill decoupled from bonus depreciation when it first came out. We did too and That that has kind of been continued into into the present day, I think we've really never coupled with the bonus depreciation enhancements and There's there's a full expensing provision called section 179 for a very long time we Basically minimally coupled that we only allowed a twenty thousand dollars just so to be expensed Not like the five hundred thousand or Other limits that we're in the federal I guess my question is ordinarily are the hearings on this conforming bill? Yes, there's a generally a hearing in the house and a hearing in the Senate. They're both protected by the money committees and People in the tax community come and testify They do yes, but not this year this year was basically written submissions and the capital is closed Okay, and I would imagine that this the state tax office recommendations were accepted as as recommended Yes, they were The finance committee report says that that's another it's another casualty of the COVID a Fiscal cabinet, you know casualty of the COVID so where you know, what about other critical things? What about you know paying bills like for example to the employee's retirement system? That's billions And another big one is oh, huh? Hundreds of millions go to Oh, are they are these bills getting paid now? Presumably so yes, I mean that hasn't changed The one thing that did change And I think we talked about it a little bit before Was that part of the TAT went to the counties before? But because of the governor's emergency suspension pen That stopped Entirely so so the counties are not getting any one red cent for the TAT not that the TAT is a Source of tremendous wealth anyway this year because it's not but nobody's here. Yeah Nobody's here So, you know in the past we've had the council on revenues and they sit and meet I guess What before the session sometime in the fall maybe? And they decide I think they meet every three months. Yeah, every every three months. Okay So the question I have for you is is a council on revenues Updating is expectations for state revenue So that the legislature at least theoretically would know how well or not so well we're doing My my understanding is that they're still meeting every three months The legislature is required by constitution to follow the revenue estimates that the COR puts out To you know determine whether we have a balanced budget or not and they're required to have a balanced budget Well, are we gonna have a balanced budget this year? Well, we the legislature had to pass it so they passed it They passed it no No, they they they they passed it by getting Source funds from other sources like the you know, the federal cares act money the rainy day fund Borrowings, etc. So theoretically it is balanced It is balanced, but well, you know, are the income sources sustainable? No It's not going to happen next year. So we'll have to basically figure out what to do next year next year. Yeah, well You know, I hope they weren't assuming that Congress is going to provide additional charges of money this year Because it looks like Congress has locked up on that. Yep What about the loans you mentioned a moment ago that we we were going to try to Balance the budget with loans. Of course, that's that's not really income so much as a loan But right you get back from the federal government. How's that work? It comes from the federal government There's something called the municipal liquidity facility The the units have been talking about that a lot as a way to fund the you know, the current pay raises the But as the governor said your money's got to be paid back in three years So it's it's not a long-term solution. Yeah, I well again, you know There are a lot of issues like like footpaths and bridges and whatnot stadium Rebuilding and stadiums the stadiums. Yep And so what you know what I what I'd like to do with you in the in the remaining Couple of minutes is that try to figure out where this is all going because I think I think we we have a certain complacency or lack of Focus on the on the true priorities, which are really threatening What's going to happen? Yeah, I mean that they're really there really hasn't been a focus on determining what the true priorities are I don't think there really has been Any focus discussion on that if you know if it has been taking place. It's been taking place in back rooms We in the public haven't seen that and you know, I hope I hope we Get to see that's you know some of that in the In the coming weeks Well, let's assume there have been those discussions in the back rooms, whatever for the lack of a You know a steady session What what can we hope for there? We can hope for I guess a reasonable expectation of getting enough revenue to balance the budget And we can you know have enough money to pay unemployment claims or even extend them and Keep people Solvent and in their efforts to get food and Medicines and whatever they need to pay the rent and all that that's that's that would be my Mystic view of it Yeah, I think what's got to happen is there there needs to be some discussion about you know, we're in government to cut We can't we can't maintain the current level of government. It's just it's not sustainable and We got to be thinking of what do we need and you know, what would we like to have but can't afford What what things would be an issue then time You know, you look through the budgets and programs of a lot of a lot of departments, especially the big ones DOE comes to mind Do they really need all of these programs or they really need all these administrators doing do we really need? All of these all of these things If we don't, you know, come on, let's get rid of it and maybe bring it back when I can then you're when you have money Yeah, well, there's billions all there Yeah, we have we have people who can't you know who can't find food and shelter. I mean, let's get to let's take care Yeah Well at the same time DOE is asking for extra money to make things safer in the event of a reopening of the schools I'm not sure that settled yet or that it's funded yet But that would also that would involve not a reduction of the money that goes to DOE But an increase in the money that goes to DOE Again, you know, we have to make priority calls. Is this something we really really need or is it something that would be nice to have? Maybe something would have it's gonna be nice to have You know, still it until we have some more money Okay, so on the one side we were looking at the possibility that there had been back room meetings and even though the legislature was You know had a Swiss cheese kind of session and even though that it's out of session now There are as you said, there are committees meetings such as the committee to look into David E. Gates plan on cove it So the optimistic view is that they must be doing something And that and they are aware of the issues that we've been mentioning here And somehow they'll be able to pull it all together in time to avoid going over the cliff But the other possibility is the pessimistic possibility and if we were pessimistic to say that well Whatever room back room meetings that were whatever Post-session or extra session meetings that were there were no no solutions. There was discussion, but no solutions There were hearings, but no solutions in that event, you know, we're left to Whatever the situation is which is a started out as a 2.3 billion dollar shortfall And it doesn't sound like we've actually made any progress on that And you know despite the loans and the extra money, which we may or may not get from Washington we may wind up in the hole and This year that matters a lot because there are people who depend on the state to eat So my question to you is what happens on the pessimistic side? Let's assume that there have not been productive meetings by the legislature. Let's assume that you know, you see what you get At the gubernatorial level, what's gonna happen to us?  Government stopped You'll be waiting for that permit for years More than you already are That would that would be across the board and and when you start thinking about it and sitting down and Answering that question fear for yourself You would come up with things like that but plus a lot of other things Where you depend on government for a lot of things and this is especially so in business in business enterprise So it's a government can't can't function Then the economy is sure to follow. So you think yeah, maybe we can talk more about that in a couple of weeks On our next show, let's do that. Let's talk about how fiscal policy affects the economy Because I think you know that that linkage Coupling if you want to use the word coupling is clear That's Tommy. I'm a chica. He's the president at tax foundation of Hawaii every couple of weeks We explore these things which you should know about you should listen to with Tom's comments And you should read up on it in the newspaper and you should make yourself Familiar with how this works because ultimately it's going to affect you. Thank you so much, Tom. I appreciate the discussion and the wisdom


Let's see if this actually goes. Hi, everyone. All right. There we go. Cool. Well, it was super cool to see kind of your full presentation about GifCoin and kind of all the ideology that came into that. And so I'm going to kind of look one layer deeper of like how we can actually store all this data that we need to create these kind of pluralistic profiles of individuals that contribute to these systems. And yeah, so the network we've been building is really designed to allow us to have a kind of web scale data throughput in a decentralized way. And I'll kind of dive into what it means. But first, I kind of want to give an overview of what this really is. So this is a slight adaption of a talk I gave at the decentralized science conference. There was last few days. So if you missed that, there was really good, good conference. And so this is kind of talking from the perspective of like a knowledge graph that really generalizes to like a graph of contributions and application data generally. So what we set out to achieve, like maybe to take a step back, when we started building ceramic, we were really trying to build a system for identity. But we realized that identity is like not really about you going through some institution, getting some potential, getting like a passport. It's like officially stamped by a government. If you think about the real world identity, it's more about the relationships you have with people and the relationship you have to the world, like your interactions essentially. And so we wanted to kind of capture that in a digital form. So we kind of started thinking about it as a knowledge graph of the internet or generally like a contribution graph. It needs to be kind of living and relational, both data and it needs to relate to each other. But also like the relationship between people, how they interact online, can also be captured. And one way to think about this is as an emergent web of trust. Some of you might be familiar with like this old PGP Web of Trust project. I think the reason that didn't work was that it was trying to like introduce this new social norms about like verifying each other's keys and stuff like that was really difficult for people to understand. But if we kind of can have interactions with the digital design, we can start to kind of have an emergent web of trust. And from that we can start to extract this kind of like social proximity which Kevin and the GIF going guys talked about just now. And once we have this kind of open data graph where we start to do like collaborative sense making in that. And so I'm going to talk about some of the properties that is really needed to GIF this. First of all we want to be able to share data across applications and across organizations. We don't want to data if we lock into like big stakeholders that just hold the data for themselves and kind of keep it captured. And we want people to plug into the system and optimize for their specific workflows. Everyone's not going to want to query data in the same way from the system. And we want the data to be composable. If a GIF going creates their kind of profile that adds very powerful credentials, someone else should be able to plug into that view that also like maybe creates a new way of adding data and still kind of leverage your old data and reference that old data. I think with this we can increase kind of the rate of innovation in this kind of ways of looking at the reality. Finally we need authenticity. So we need the system to be censorship resistant. We don't want arbitrary actors to be able to remove stuff. We want every action to be authenticated. This essentially means that users will like sign data or essentially like accounts will sign data. I think an important piece to realize here is that the system is sift-on. It doesn't like require any real kind of real world identity, whatever that would mean information. And we also want kind of like secure time stamping. So we have like verifiable all the product trails of like what happened and what point in time. And with this authors of data can kind of build reputation. So how can we build this system? Well can we just put it on the blockchain? The blockchain kind of provides all of this functionality. Well the problem with blockchain systems is that some of you might have noticed they don't scale very well. And so the reason for this is that they favor something called strong consistency. Essentially that means that all transactions need to be ordered in a particular way. And this is really good because all transactions need to be ordered completely. And there can't be like two nodes that have like different ideas of what state of the blockchain is. This great prevents double spends allows us to do all these nice financial things. We can do fund management through DAO so we can fund public goods. We can have cool NFTs that can have a lot of use cases beyond like you know only like pictures on line. But yeah the main limitation here in throughput is that at every block there needs to be an individual block producer that's chosen by whatever consensus mechanism you have to produce the block. Which essentially makes the scalability limit whatever one node in the network the smallest node in the network can produce. Or can't compute. So there's essentially two ways that different projects are taking to scale blockchains for data. There's two camps. So big block camp is Solana, Celestia, Army. They basically have different mechanisms of kind of convincing themselves in the community like hey this is secure. And that's all well good but the problem is you still have a big computer that needs to process all of the transactions and you can think about applications such as Twitter and Facebook and Messenger and these things. They can't scale by having like one centralized server. They actually need to have a huge distributed system. So thinking that we can scale to web scale with a blockchain system that we set big blocks that's pretty far, we're going to get pretty far off the mark. There's another approach called proof of storage. Essentially that means that you as a user of the system you can make an agreement with some node or a set of nodes in the network like hey you can store this big chunk of data and there's like proofs that make kind of guarantees that the data will be there when you want it back. Just great now we have much more throughput in the system but for every kind of agreement you make you need to make a transaction that needs to go into the block. Most of the time if you have like millions or hundreds of millions of users all of those updates are not going to be like big data updates it's going to be small updates that each individual makes so we're still kind of like not going to be able to get that through all of those small updates we still need to go through the block. So we need something different. We need a decentralized system that is eventually consistent that allows us to produce data in parallel without having the limitation of this block producer that they have in a blockchain and so I think we can achieve this if we have verifiable audit trails and ideally that can enable us to have data compulsability. One key thing to note here is we can we can achieve parallel data production without this kind of and having eventual consistency by focusing on non-financial data because the financial data use case really need this strong consistency to be able to function correctly. So let's focus on non-financial data I kind of tend to think of that as like sold out data because you can't like trade it. So with ceramic we're building a solution for this and we essentially split it into three pieces events streaming at the bottom like a hash linked log of events on top of that an indexing system that basically builds a view on top of the event streams and on top of that is like a GraphQL API that allows you to like easily query the data within the system. So at the bottom we focus on making event streams available so these are independently verifiable event logs I can sync the state and verify the validity of one individual event stream without having to know anything about the rest of the state of the network and so this is quite different from a blockchain where you need to sync the entire blockchain to know what's going on and each of these event streams are produced by an individual account so we use DIVs which is a way to represent the accounts and this kind of allows us to have individual or like support any sort of blockchain laws so right now supporting MetaMask but we're working on extending that to like any any blockchain wall if you can sign a message and DIV is like a really good way of making an abstraction for that so each individual account produces their own event streams so you can choose to index essentially like one account or across multiple accounts and we use the peer-to-peer network to synchronize the event streams so you can connect to the network synchronize only the event streams so like as a user of the system you would produce your own event streams and there's no way to trade those event streams so you should type to your account to your Ethereum address or to whatever other address you have and an interesting thing also is that I can produce an event stream that makes verifiable credentials and claims about other individuals I can claim that you're here and Kevin could also have done that and claimed that about everyone here as well and then you can build an index on top of event streams for like the presenters of tonight and kind of query information about kind of social complex and that data will also be sold out because you can't really trade that high with so the event streams probably looks like this every event here is put into this hash and then you can kind of build this hash linked stream of events and so the genesis event is just like the creation basically ties the event stream to your account and then the sign event updates to this event stream and we also periodically anchor these event streams into the blockchain and this is key for like the security of the system because we can now get like secure timestamps you might wonder like if now I need to make a transaction for like every time I want to anchor this into the blockchain you know that seems like a limitation but it's pretty simple to get around that we can just take a bunch of updates to a bunch of different streams build a merkle tree or some sort of vector commitment you just put the root of the tree or like so the vector commitment on chain so we can basically group a bunch of updates and put them on the blockchain and so on top of the event streaming layer we have the indexing layer and so each node in the network can choose to build an index on top of the event streams and this index is essentially they can essentially choose which data to index so we have like an abstraction called data models which allows you to create a subset of data that describes essentially semantically describes some data that you might use for your application and each node can choose like which model to index and they don't need to index this data the entire network so this is kind of like what really makes it scalable because each node can just choose what they prefer to look at and the interesting thing also with this kind of event streaming and that indexing on top approach is that if someone is not satisfied with the kind of database layout of whatever you get from indexing they can just plug in directly to the event streams and read the data maybe perform actions directly based on events or build a different sort of index and I think this flexibility is really key and so finally on top we're building this more easy to use interface for engineers and developers to create and add data to the system so we call this data models you can create them using standard graphql schema definition language you can query the data using graphql and these models you can discover models that have already been created and you can kind of compose them you can take existing model create a new model that maybe referenced all data or add some original data which yeah just like same sort of composability of smart contracts but without the financial pieces and finally here the interesting piece of data models is that you as a developer you define the data model but then you don't actually define how a database where a user is right any user can create an event stream that writes data to this data model and as a developer you can choose to query all data across all of the users or query data across maybe like only the specific NFT holders or something like that so you can kind of choose it's like an open open system where anyone can write but you can choose which things to include in your view so here's a quick example of what this would look like is that you have here potentially have a proposal and it has an author which is provided automatically by the system to reference to another data model which is a comment this is pretty much the same but it has a proposal ID which basically a reference back to the original proposal so you can see how you can create two different data models here and how they can reference each other and propose and potentially someone could come in now if I build this application for DAW proposals or whatever someone else could come in like hey I want to be able to like proposals and I'll quote in DAW more comments so you can add a new data model and it allows for that alright so quickly some use cases these are kind of like more tailored to the decentralized science thing because this slide is from but I think it's really interesting to think about this sort of way of modeling data as a semantic knowledge graph where you describe kind of the data you put into the system and the relationships between data another interesting aspect is you can have more direct collaboration on things because you have this kind of open write access to write to a data model and any user can for example like create a proposal any user can create a comment and it's up to kind of the application to choose which data to query and it's useful for citizen science it's useful for building DAWs in general I think I think the last and I think most interesting piece of this is that once you have this kind of graph of interactions between users how people contribute to communities maybe they made a proposal, maybe they made insightful comments and whatever else you might model into your application you can look at this graph of contributions to your open DAW ecosystem and see which account, which autonomous accounts contributed and do some sort of like communal retroactive funding for the individuals that contributed and there you could of course take into consideration like plurality and things like that as well alright, thank you for listening I hope that was helpful are you going to take some questions if we have time, yeah sure yeah, I think we have at least five minutes I hear some careful questions bye there, thanks for the talk I just wanted to check my own understanding so event sourcing is about you only ever add that you don't edit to your data sets is that right? yeah, I mean you can think of an event stream as a stream where you put events and you can create updates and delete as actions so you can put different actions into this event streams and those can be like great updates so you can deal with removing illegal content or the right to be forgotten for instance yeah, so each event stream is each node essentially chooses which event streams they keep available and pin to their node so if there is something that you don't want to be kept available on your particular node you can remove that cool, thank you can you have a question? okay here we have one I was doing some research and I didn't want to lose any data so I thought maybe start that data on the blockchain you had some projects in your slides like FIPE one and I think there is not this one, we have like decentralized file space or file system is that also a use case you can do around Kermans? yeah, so ceramic actually uses for the event stream the way it's represented is using the same data model as IPFS uses it's called IPLE and it's basically a way to put data into a hash linked graph and refer to and kind of create DAX directed by cyclic graphs using in a kind of standard way of representing this data you can actually represent the theory in blockchain or like Bitcoin blockchain inside of IPLB and the nodes there is a ceramic token? there is no ceramic token right now but there is going to be because like in here right now in the event streaming layer you need to run your own node and choose which event streams to keep available as an end user that's a hassle right so I want to be able to pay the network to keep my data available as long as I want and so we're adding an incentive layer using a token to achieve that did you think about like a lot of other projects have like single point affairs and if there is an emergency like nuclear war we maybe have some soon or not yeah did you think about the price from the token drops maybe your node will turn off or nodes will turn off because there is no incentive of running a node so yeah, the files are lost maybe because nodes are turned off no it's definitely about concern I think it's true for like any decentralized crypto system that uses the token incentives one interesting aspect of ceramic in particular is that I can even if there is like this tokenized network and I if I don't I think that like okay if the token goes to nothing and like I don't believe in the current remediation strategy I can still run a node and keep those event streams available on my node and if the incentive mechanism stops working the event streams will still be available in the network thank you I can project so let's take the mic for the recording so other than keeping their souls are there other other like real applications people are starting to use with this or anything else that kind of brings it to life yeah one interesting example that recently got published is cyberconnect they're building kind of a profile page for projects in the web 3 space I think as the web 3 space have grown it's become like much harder and harder to like actually know what's going on and like which projects are relevant because we have no source of truth and I think like if they can achieve like one source of truth that would be interesting so that's just like simple profile page for projects but I think they are planning to expand that into more of a social network so like the social use cases are interesting I think like generally projects around like now coordination is interesting as well I talked to a bunch of projects that would be interested in using ceramics at the B-side conference for like lab dollars an interesting example essentially going to create a marketplace for people to run lab experiments so a someone that has an experiment could put out a proposal and people could use that cool thanks maybe a last question Joy? anyone? no? don't be shy guys I'm curious how you see like competitor protocols that are sort of more single purpose like focused around a certain use case competitors which seems to be sort of very general sort of protocol in the sort of social aspects you have some example well like lens protocols trying to do like social media stuff I mean they're trying to do it on Jane but it seems like social media applications could be built on something like lens protocol or something like ceramics I'm curious which way you see the advantages of ceramic over things like lens yeah so I don't see it as like a strict competition like I think lens does interesting things because you can have like incentives through the NFT organization and ceramic is not really about like NFTs it's about like generally building a high throughput data system I think like if you try to build a system that makes everything all the data into an NFT you're going to run into this problem you can't scale a strongly consistent system to the scale of the internet like we can't do that in rep 2 like why would we be able to do that in rep 3 to me that doesn't make sense but if we can leverage the benefit of like high throughput data that ceramic brings with kind of financialization of certain aspects like lens brings I think that's the best of both worlds thank you very much again so let's now take a little 10 minutes break to enjoy some drinks and to grease a little bit and then we'll come back for the last part of the session