Good morning, everyone. I'm Professor Sean Sullivan. I teach in the National Security Affairs Department here at the Naval War College. And Ambassador McGann's thoughts about the Chatham House rules bring back a memory. This is my third year as a moderator for this conference. And in my first year, I would appreciate if you noticed the proficiency of my trajectory right now. But in the first year, I got a little nervous. And I confused Chatham House rules with, and I called them Marcus the Queensberry rules, which refer to boxing. I don't want to scare anybody if I fall into that. But whatever we do, whatever rules we play by Chatham House is number one. Marcus the Queensberry, not today. So today's panel is going to discuss and analyze elements of food security. And I'd like to welcome everybody, and welcome particularly our panel. Ms. Jennifer Gallegos is the Director of Coffee for Fair Trade USA. She's also the Vice President of the International Women's Coffee Alliance. Dr. Krista Jacobson is from the Bureau of Food Security at USAID. And Colonel Jody Prescott, Army Retired, is an adjunct professor from the University of Vermont and a senior fellow at the West Point Center for the Rule of Law. So what we'll do today is we'll have our presenters discuss and present for about 15 minutes. And at the end of each presentation, we'll follow up with about 20 minutes or so. We should have about that amount of time for comments, questions, and the interactions that make this conference so effective and so valuable. So what I'd like to do now is have Jennifer proceed. Thanks. Good morning. You may have noticed from my bio that I am not an advisor, a researcher, a writer, a professor. But their work makes my work possible. It makes it valued. It makes it understood. It makes it supported and funded. So I'm very grateful and humbled and honored to be here speaking with you. What I am is a woman in coffee. And I am dedicated and committed to making it the first 100% sustainable agriculture commodity in the world. What I hope is that those of you out there unfamiliar with the role of women and sustainability is that you recognize and walk away from here knowing that there is enough evidence and proof that women make valuable contributions all along the value chain. We have enough proof. They are key to sustaining everything. They are key to sustaining our economy, our health, the environment, our families, our harmony, and our future. They're definitely, definitely key to sustaining your favorite daily beverage. In both of my roles as the vice president of the International Women's Coffee Alliance and as the director of coffee at Fair Trade, I see firsthand the contributions that women make every day. I clearly understand the why, but I also know that not everyone is convinced. So I still need a lot of case studies out there to help convince the others. Coffee is very, very big business.  It is the second most valuable traded commodity in the world. Coffee is an addiction. Over 85% of Americans drink 2.7 cups a day. And we're not even the most consuming country in the world. Finland and Netherlands are. And your cup is only one of 600 billion that will be drank this year. Through a recent study by the National Coffee Association and Technomic, it was estimated that coffee's total economic impact is $225 billion. For comparison, the beer industry is $253 billion. Bottled water is $156 billion. The value of coffee at retail is $72 billion. If you look at total food and beverage sales and if you look at this excluding alcohol for every dollar that a consumer spends, 5.3 of that is on coffee. But coffee is facing many challenges. In order for you to understand them, you need to know a little bit about how it's grown. Coffee is grown in four primary regions, Central America, South America, Africa, and Asia. The biggest places are Brazil, Colombia, Vietnam, Indonesia, and Ethiopia. It is grown on a coffee plant, has a flower, and a really beautiful cherry. And it is grown under shade trees. The highest quality is grown at high elevations, anywhere between 3,000 and 6,000 feet. Although climate change is pushing farmers higher and higher up the mountain, in places like Bolivia, you can now see it grown at 7,500 feet. The average coffee produces two pounds of coffee. The average tree produces two pounds of coffee. So if you shop at a club store and you buy the two pound bags, that takes 65 to 70 trees. 70% of it is grown by small holders, which means they are on less than 10 hectares. And that's grown in developing countries, countries that are already facing food insecurity, poverty, disease, climate change, loss of land, migration, and many times are already in conflict with political unrest or drug violence. In order to bring you the best cup of coffee, it's hand-picked and hand-sorted, and it must be done at exactly the right time. The cherry has to be red, not yellow, not green. By the time it hits your cup, it's gone through seven transformations, and it's gone through 30 different hands. As you can see here, though, the price paid to the farmers, which is the last line, the green line, has not kept up with the price that's at the top, the gray line that you pay for your latte or your cappuccino. That gray line at the top is the line that's paid, typically when it makes its last transformation. The bottom line is what's paid to the farmer. That stayed static for 30 years. What business do you know? The price has stayed consistent for 30 years. The average 200-day price for the sea market is $1.23. Coffee is a luxury egg commodity. It has zero nutritional value, but it is a market-demanded cash crop, and our under-evaluation of it poses huge threats to food security and political instability, as well as into a household and community-level inequities. Sadly, it's not a winning value proposition any longer for coffee farmers. It is easier for them to sell their real estate or sell their land to real estate development or to illicit activities. This all-while demand for coffee is increasing. Millennials love their coffee. And also in producing countries, they've started to recognize that their coffee tastes pretty good, and they like it too. As the income for farmers is not keeping up with the cost of increases in fuel, labor, inputs, fertilizer, transportation, and equipment, and if they haven't diversified their crops, then we're seeing huge spikes in hunger and malnutrition. Additionally, as the prices are not keeping up with the cost of production, we're now seeing higher incidences of child and forced labor. The existing studies that examined food and insecurity are right now predominantly focused in Latin America, and the most recent one was in Mexico, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Guatemala, and we found that 63% of coffee households suffered insecurity during the year, 63% of them. Food insecurity is so prevalent in Latin America that they've titled it Los Mesos Flacos. Los Mesos Flacos means the thin months. We know it's even worse in Asia and Africa, where poverty is more extreme and the social safety nets are less available. The negative impact of malnutrition and hunger does not just affect the individual, it affects the total community. It affects the community because it translates into loss of education, lowered work productivity, and higher health costs, which means that in coffee-growing communities, the farmers, the pickers, and their children do not reach their full potential, which essentially keeps families in generational poverty. Of the world's estimated 1 billion poor, Krista and I know that these numbers are not always accurate, not great numbers in agriculture commodity. 25 million are in coffee, 70% of those are women. Women face additional challenges with gender inequality that are prevalent throughout the world's coffee-growing regions and are often unable to get economic, social, or any political power. Unfortunately, women rarely, rarely occupy any leadership positions in policy-making organizations like the ministries of agriculture or their local or producer organizations, and these are the organizations that are tasked with closing the gender gap. If you have no women representation, how can you close that gender gap? My organization, IWCA, facilitates the empowerment of women for exactly this reason. We give them a lifeline, we give them hope, we give them education, we give them training, we give them a network to reach out to around the globe, all in an effort to give them self-esteem so that they can step up into these leadership roles to start closing this gender gap. The IWCA acts as advocates because we support and we believe wholeheartedly that the way that we're going to meet the ambitious sustainable development goals adopted by the UN to end poverty in all forms everywhere while leaving no one behind is going to come through women. We also firmly believe that the SGG number five to achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls will have the most impact and influence on all people living in poverty, especially in agriculture. I have intentionally left these slides gray because most of the women are invisible and have no voice. Women work double hours in coffee. Men work an average of eight while women work around 15. Women undertake, as you heard yesterday in Dr. Valerie Hudson's speech, they undertake about 70% of the field work but typically only own around 15% of the land, many times less, and are involved in less than 10% of the trading. Within a household, the decision-making power is always given to the person who has control of the income and ownership of the assets. Therefore, the men take control of the decisions for the house. What does this mean? This means the woman has no control over her future or the future of her children. Evidence shows that if women have the same access to men such as resources to land, finance, training, seed varieties, new technology, microfinance and better training, yields would increase by as much as 30% per household and countries could see an increase of 4% in agriculture output. In other words, when women are meaningfully involved in agriculture development, not only do farms become more productive but overall family improves and communities thrive. Many programs in place to address food security fail because they were built without the women's involvement. Again, women are invisible. Typically when people go into these places to teach about food security, they're teaching the men. The men doesn't do the cooking, he doesn't take care of the crops, nor does he know what his family eats. Empowering women with knowledge and giving them access transforms them from voiceless laborers into leaders of sustainable and profitable businesses. The best part about including the women is they share their knowledge. They go back and they teach communities. Women care about the world. They care about things around them. They think about the future. I had hundreds of stories to share today, but I picked two. You can keep it here. This one is from a project in Wila, Colombia. It's being supported by two groups, Expo Cafe and Solidaridad. It's a woman's initiative that is specifically focused on family prosperity, generational renewal and food security. I spoke to the project leader just recently and she told me that they started the project off with having all the women write down their dreams. All of them wrote something similar. They didn't want big houses. They didn't want vacations. They didn't want anything else besides to have their family together and be proud of their family business, be proud of their work. They wanted their children to get educated and come back and work on the family farm. That's all they wanted. They wanted to have a better life together. The group was founded in September of 2010. It took two courageous women, just two. They were overwhelmed by the lack of money, lack of support from their spouses, improper handling of household income and the typical machismo that goes on in Latin America. They wanted to break the cycle of poverty for their families. So they asked their husbands to give them just a little pot of land. In other instances, the husbands said no, but they would have written them the land. And then in other instances, they asked for micro loans where they were able to get some plots. Their local cooperative provided them with some seedlings. The objective was to integrate the family into farm activities, highlight the valuable role of women, achieve recognition from their husbands that they were capable of doing these things, implement good agriculture practices, provide the family with training on income, financial literacy, and biodiversity protection, enhance food security, and start to improve and produce the highest quality of coffee. Before the project, 80% of these women had never had any interaction with anyone else or other women. After four years of the project, most of the women have now planted at least a hectare and have it in production, and they have 5,000 trees planted. Because food security is one of the main pillars, they now grow food crops like corn, black beans, peas, and vegetables. Food security is no longer a concern for this community. Today, they have the respect of their husbands, and together they work on the farm, sard by side, they sell the coffee, and the additional income has increased the prosperity and the community is doing much better. Weela is also gaining a reputation in the coffee industry as a whole, as a place to look for high quality coffee. One of the world's poorest nations, Burundi, is heavily reliant on coffee. 70% of all their exports is coffee. Of their 10 million people, three million people are in coffee, and 60% of them do not have enough to eat. They do not have enough food. Their government does not have enough money to fund the programs that are needed to feed them, and when you can't put food on your table, you're not going to invest in your farm, so when you don't invest in your farms, your future is unstable. In Burundi, only men are allowed to own land, and only men are allowed to receive money. Isabella Simanie, another brave, brave woman, who happens to be somebody I know and love, started the International Women's Coffee Alliance Chapter in Burundi. She also started a program called Indotto Burundi.   I'm going to train you both on the quality, or on the benefits of improving the quality of your coffee. It took a long time, but she got the men and women to come together. She got the men to agree to allow the women to sign their names, and on a contract that said, I will allow you to receive money from your cherries. I will allow you to do that. Higher quality coffee demands higher prices. When you get higher prices for your coffee, you can get two payments. Typically, a farmer lives off of one payment. If you can get two payments, you can make it through those thin months, a bonus payment, they call it. So Isabella trained both the men and the women on how to produce high quality coffee. And again, the women had to be registered so they can receive this extra money. Guess what happened when they started to include the women? They improved their quality and they started to win what's called a cup of excellence competitions. Cup of excellence competitions and coffee basically is a designation that says, your coffee is really good. Your coffee can now demand a premium. And they started to attract the attention of buyers. Their coffee can now be found in Portland, Maine and Berkeley, California. This is a photo of the women delivering the bonus that came out of these extra premiums. As I understand this year just recently, they actually had two women delivering the bonus and they were on motorcycles. This bonus will ensure that this community can survive. This bonus is not aid. This bonus is not charity. This bonus is something that the community did together. This is something that will sustain them forever. The IWCA, International Women's Coffee Alliance, is positioned to do more and go further. We now have 20 chapters in coffee producing regions around the globe. Our newest ones are Cameroon, Japan, Mexico and Peru. Coming soon, Indonesia, Australia, Spain, Portugal, and we have interest from Ireland. Through these chapters, women come together, identify and solve their own problems that are unique to their country. As you see, some of these are in consuming countries, not just producing countries. That's very, very unique to our model. Essentially, what that means is producing countries have immediate market access because the consuming countries will buy their product. That's essentially what they're there for. Any work to reduce hunger and help smallholder farming families improve their lives in order to keep producing the things that we love, like your cup of coffee, cannot succeed without addressing the role of women. These women on this page, Sunilini Menon, Ambula Masasu, and Tomoko Nagasi, are just a few of the faces that reflect the women working together around the world to ensure that we are included, we are counted, and we are valued. Experts agree that no trade association or nonprofit is going to take the place of a well-designed regulation in enforcement, resources, reach, and power. What we seek is collaboration at local trade and policy level. So far, our message is being heard. We currently have a wonderful working relationship with the International Trade Center. But we need more, because we need it to happen quicker. Otherwise, you're going to run out of coffee. I guarantee that. So I hope that all of you coffee lovers out there will start to listen to our message higher and you will support us. And if you have influence over enforcement, reach and power, that you will tell our story. Thank you. Thank you, Jennifer. Next is Dr. Krista Jacobs. Hi, good morning, everyone. I am currently at USAID, one of our gender advisors, in the Feed the Future program, which is the US government's interagency, interdepartment initiative on agriculture and food security. In Feed the Future, we have two top-line goals that we talk a lot about. The first of them is inclusive agricultural growth. And by inclusive, we mean the poor and women are both a part of driving that growth and benefiting from it. Our second top-line goal that we talk a lot about is improved nutrition for women and young children. We're not going to achieve either of those without engaging women and men together in agriculture and women and men together in nutrition. Unfortunately today, I don't have many remarks, so please ask me later on engaging men in nutrition. I'll mostly be talking about women in agriculture. And engaging and empowering women in agriculture is a deliberate part of Feed the Future's strategic approach. So why women in agriculture? We've talked a little bit about that now and last night. We want everyone to be empowered in agriculture. However, there are and have been historic and systemic barriers both in the societies we work in and as well in our own agricultural programming that have disproportionately disadvantaged women. I'll give examples of some of the gender gaps that we do know about. Women, small farmers are much less likely to use purchased agricultural inputs. Seeds, fertilizers, mechanization. All rural smallholders are credit constrained. Women are five to 10% less likely to be able to access credit. There doesn't currently exist the proper data in the world to be able to say how much land women own and how much land men own. The best estimates we have of that for developing countries suggest that women are 10 to 20% of landholders. And the land that they do access tends to be smaller in area and of less quality. Now, why do we care about these? Yes, we care about it from an equality perspective, but also the best data we have, which again is far from perfect on labor, is that women are 43% of the agricultural labor force in developing countries. You're simply not going to have sustainable agricultural growth, let alone inclusive agricultural growth, unless you are taking away some of these barriers and addressing them of almost half of your labor force. And it's been estimated, as Jennifer said, that if women and men were to have, if women's access to productive inputs were to increase the level of men's, that women's yields would increase 20 to 30%. And that could potentially reduce the number of hungry people by 100 million to 150 million. We also know there's a very established literature that has shown that as women's relative income and assets in the family increase, you see better nutrition and health outcomes for children. So women's empowerment in agriculture is enabling us to hit both of our top line goals. Feed the Future has invested a lot in measuring women's empowerment. And that makes me very happy because I'm a data person. So some of the stories I'm going to tell now are through what we're beginning to learn with the data we have. We measure women's empowerment, in Feed the Future, through two main ways. One is a direct measure called the Women's Empowerment and Agriculture Index. And the other is through sex disaggregated data, and I'll talk a little bit about each. The Women's Empowerment and Ag Index, which we affectionately call the UIA, or sometimes the index, was created for Feed the Future. And all of our 19 focused countries are accountable for measuring it periodically and accountable for improving it. And part of my job is to help them figure out how they're going to improve it. What's different about it is that we talk in the population based surveys that we do periodically, we talk with a woman and a man in the same household and ask them the same set of questions about five different dimensions or domains that the literature has shown. When women do better in these domains, household agricultural productivity increases. So these domains are rooted in the literature and the evidence. These domains include decision making in agriculture, what gets grown, how it gets grown, is it getting marketed, what prices are we getting for it based on who we're selling to. It includes access to and control over resources, resources like land, financial services and credit services, mechanization, storage, even transportation services. There's control over income, there's social capital, which we look at as being able to participate in groups and having a voice in public speaking. So how you, avenues you have for information and ways you have to voice your own needs. And finally, something we've talked a lot about so far, time allocation and workload. How much are you working and who's making those decisions? And so this index asks women and men these sets of questions so we're able to see how women are doing, how men are doing and how women and men in the same household are doing relatively. When we had our first round of data collection we had 13 countries and we had the results for those and Bangladesh was at the bottom. And what the data said were the biggest constraints to women's empowerment and agriculture and where we work in Bangladesh were lack of control over income, really no group participation and no public speaking. And the Bangladesh mission in USAID said, well, we're not very surprised by this. This aligns with what we're seeing, women are doing a lot of the work but they're not making those income decisions and they're not really seen as visible. This is a society where women are spending a lot of time very, very close to the household and there are severe mobility restrictions in Bangladesh. So the mission said, well, we're not surprised but we're not happy about it either. And so we are going to begin to change some of our existing programs and build new ones to address these specific constraints that this index has helped us to see here's where we know now we need to do more work. So among some of the things they did were to work with community leaders to create village groups for women where there hadn't been before, work with the groups that they were already doing work with to improve their organizational capacity, make them more sustainable. So everything from how do you run a group and keep members, how do you manage savings and have some financial sustainability for the group, public speaking, having the women in the groups demonstrate to each other and to the community some of the agricultural techniques that they were learning. They also linked these groups with another project they were doing, training agricultural extensionists, so you have an audience now and these women have information and training some of these agricultural extensionists in crops and techniques that were more relevant to what women were working on. To address the income, they trained several of the groups in business skills and in grafting small fruit trees which is a relatively low capital endeavor, something that can be done more flexibly, time-wise and is a relatively quick turnaround. And so this is an example of how one mission was able to use some of this new data to adjust their programming. Now for sex disaggregated data, it's a very simple idea and a very powerful practice. What this means is that instead of asking, well how many farmers did we train? How much money did we give out in loans? How many people did we train in nutrition programming? We're instead asking how many women and men did we train in agricultural practices? What was the amount of money that women were extended in loans? Same for men. And some of the things that we've been able to see now that we have a few years of data on several of our indicators are that we are closing the gap in women and men being trained in agricultural practices and to a lesser degree in nutrition. That gap is starting to go away. We are closing much more slowly a gap in women and men applying agricultural technologies. That gap is still very much present. We don't yet have the data to see how that's going for yields. So we're able to say, well, we're reaching more women. We're beginning to change how they farm and the jury is still out on how that's affecting their yields. We've also been able to see the results of several countries very deliberate efforts to bring more women into their training. Some of this is done by groups as in Bangladesh. Other countries made very specific choices in what commodities they were going to focus on by saying, we want to work where women work. So horticulture in Guatemala and Honduras, rain fed rice and Senegal, legumes in Zambia and Malawi. We also have an example of a program in Guatemala that doesn't just train men farmers. Doesn't just train farmers in a group. They actually train families together so that you are reaching everyone in the household who's doing that agricultural work, whether they're getting the credit for it or are publicly seen to be doing it or not. There's a relatively new for me story coming out of Malawi where we're working in soy and ground nut value chains and legumes and about slightly more than two thirds of the producers we work with there are women and this was a deliberate choice by the Malawi mission. So we looked at sexist aggregated data for training application of technologies and yields. And when we did that, we saw, wow, lots more women and men are being trained. That training gap is actually closing. And we saw that between 2013 and 2015 there was more than a doubling of these agricultural technologies being applied to the soy and legumes. And some of these technologies include improved and certified seeds, inoculant that you put on the soy to increase nitrogen fixation for both yield and for the soil, management of mold and aflatoxins and row planting and seed spacing. So we said, wow, this is great. We're seeing that go up. And when you look at the application by women and by men of these different technologies, you saw many more women applying them and you saw them applying the technologies much earlier. This jived with what people in the field were telling us that, yeah, it's great. Women are early adopters. They're really, they're taking charge of this. Wonderful. And then we looked at the yields. And while everyone's yields have gone up, the gains in women's yields were not at all comparable to men's yields. So now we've got a puzzle, right? Great technology adoption. People are trained. They're adopting the technologies. What's happening with the yields? This is still a mystery we're figuring out. What the project staff have been telling us are that, well, the women we're working with are very time constrained. The technologies that they are choosing are the ones that don't take a lot of time. So they are not choosing as much the row planting and the spacing. They are not choosing the aflatoxin management. They're not choosing to the same degree the inoculant. And these are the technologies that produce the higher gains in yields. So as a data person and a person who works in gender, I'm really excited because now using this data you've found a concrete problem that we can go and solve. And so if we weren't looking at sexist aggregated data, we would not be seeing our successes, our problems, or some of these potential solutions. In terms of things that we're learning overall in the future, we are learning that women will apply these technologies when they are able to and when they are relevant for them. And we need to do more to make these technologies more accessible and more relevant. We have several projects that are working with women to design better soil management technologies, better drip irrigation technologies for the crops and circumstances with smaller land, lesser land, just even different amounts of production that women have. And men will support this process when they see the benefits for their families and when they're involved in the process. That said, there's still any time that you begin changing resources and norms, there still is that potential for tension and there are ways to address that. In my estimation, what Feed the Future has been getting better at comes down to stuff, skills, and services. We can help get the seeds and the fertilizer and the new, greatly designed hand tools out there. We can help people to become better managers of the soil and water to produce safer foods. We can help people learn to adapt to climate change. We can help connect people with services, we can help connect people to markets. We can help get financial services connected to agriculture in general, not just smallholders. What we need to do much more work on and what I believe we are less good at are things that center around those norms. And this still gets back to some of these factors that we saw in the literature are connected to household agricultural productivity. The decision making that happens in agriculture, in the household and in the community, the control over income and women's time. And all of these really center on social norms and expectations for what women's and men's roles are and negotiations that happen between women and men on an individual basis. And so these are the things that as we are getting the stuff, the skills, and the services out there, these other factors I see as this is how we start to get women and men to work more directly in concert with one another for food security. Thank you, Krista. Next we'll have Jodi Prescott. Good morning, everyone. Admiral Howe, Dr. Raun. Thank you so much for the gracious invitation to come speak at this year's conference again and for the opportunity to be part of such a distinguished panel. Last year, Aikosan, Becca, and I presented on the new Japanese National Action Plan and gave a comparative analysis of US, NATO, and Australian efforts to incorporate UNSCR-1325 into military operations. Colonel Fielding, I particularly look forward to finding out how our Australian colleagues are making progress in this regard because of the very significant political push and combined effort that you have within your Ministry of Defense in moving these things forward. This year, however, I'd like to discuss food security and gender in the context of armed conflict and climate change. This picture of a wheat field with mountains in the background is not particularly remarkable. I took it a number of years ago in Zimbabwe province in Afghanistan where I was working on environmental damage claims and crop damage claims against US forces. It was an important experience for me though because it forced me to consider the operational significance of food security and its gender components for the first time. What do we believe that we know about armed conflict, women, and climate change? First, that armed conflict has a differentiated and more severe impact on women in general than it does men. This does not mean that men do not suffer or that, for example, they are not at risk of sexual violence in armed conflict situations. They certainly are. In general, however, across the world and often because of the gender roles that they occupy, women tend to suffer more and differently than men. I believe that this is operationally significant. Second, that as with armed conflict, climate change has a differentiated and more severe impact on women than it does men in general. This does not mean that men will experience climate change in a positive way and it doesn't mean that their experiences may not be unique to them. From my perspective, however, based on the research that I've been doing, these experiences might be significant sociologically, but at this point in time, in terms of looking at the research and the data, I struggled to see an operational significance to them. Third, that climate change, at the very least, can serve as an exacerbator, an accelerator of armed conflict. The empirical basis for this understanding needs much more development, however, for it to be operationally useful in real time. Fourth, we understand that particularly in the developing world, the linkages between food security, physical security, water security, and energy security are very strong and that there's a very significant gender component to these linkages. Not only are developing countries among those nations likely to be affected by climate change first, they often lack the capital and the human resources to be able to effectively mitigate climate change or to adapt to it. Generally speaking, developing countries also appear more likely than developed countries to experience outbreaks of armed conflict, at least since the fall of the Berlin Wall. In many developing countries, women and girls are already more vulnerable to stressors such as war and climate change because they often have an inferior socioeconomic status. In these situations, I fear that there is a compounding nonlinear relationship between armed conflict and climate change on these most vulnerable population cohorts. This then has the potential to lead to a perfect storm of gender differentiated suffering in the midst of general political, social, and economic instability and insecurity. So where does food security fit into this gender context? To better appreciate this, it is useful briefly to look at three functional areas of women's involvement in food production where they often face detrimental discrimination. Not going to go into depth on these because quite frankly, Krista and Jennifer have already hit many of the important examples that highlight how important these areas are. But for example, with the unequal access to resources, as mentioned, often women do not have the same access to loans or credit. With regard to the opportunity to change or improve their livelihoods, the gender roles that women have in different countries and cultures often keep them involved in time-intensive chores for which they are not paid, such as gathering biomass for fuel. Girls gathering firewood have little time for school, particularly as climate change directly and indirectly affects vegetation patterns, and the girls must range ever farther to collect the same amount of British thermal units for the daily cooking for the home. Third, women are often excluded from decision-making regarding resource allocation, such as water allotments for irrigation, even though they in fact might be the primary users of this water. I first heard the term stability operations in the context of Bosnia in the mid 1990s when I was in US Army Europe. Military staffs were having to come to grips with the notion that NATO's first out-of-area deployment was unlikely to offer any of the high intensity conflict that everyone had been training for. What mattered now were civilian-centric operations. Staff meetings featured cognitive dissonance in coming to grips with this reality. General Sir Rupert Smith has described these operations as wars amongst the people. In light of the gender roles that women have in many of the countries that are likely to be impacted first by conflict and climate change, it is difficult to see how civilian-centric operations can succeed unless it is recognized operationally that men's and women's security needs and experiences are not identical. However, the question for the US forces, these that will find themselves engaged in these operations is this. How well are they organized and equipped to understand these needs? My assessment at this point in time is, despite the hard work done by many of the people in this room, not very much. Let me give you an example of the nature of the problem as I see it. Dr. Richard Byrne, a senior lecturer at Harper Adams University in the UK, has conducted a great deal of field research and fieldwork on food security in the context of stabilization operations. In a presentation he gave last year, the link to which I have included on the slide, he talked about a pilot project in which he was involved in Burundi, which, as Jennifer has mentioned, has had experiences with food insecurity. This pilot project used military personnel to conduct agricultural surveys to develop the mission's understanding of food security in the area in which they were working. Now, as we noted, Burundi has experienced food insecurity issues, and those issues might explain, for example, why there might be little affordable food in urban markets. In one particular area, though, the ordinary metrics that might be tracked to gauge food security, such as fertilizer availability, or the safety of the roads from the farms to the markets, all were good. Yet there was still little affordable food in the urban markets for the urban dwellers to buy. Fortunately, the surveys that the military personnel were conducting had a gender component to them. When the women of farm families were interviewed, they explained that often the soldiers who were patrolling the roads and keeping them safe from troublemakers, were they themselves levying unofficial taxes on the women as they took their crops to market. This discouraged the women from going to market, and we can see how potentially this would lead to imminent food security issues in the urban areas as townspeople ran out of nutritious food, and longer term food security issues in the countryside, perhaps as farmers turned their focus towards subsistence crops and missed opportunities to earn cash, to give them some resilience to buy better supplies and seed. Five years after the publication of the U.S. National Action Plan and the tasking of the Department of Defense to include gender considerations and operations, surely U.S. doctrine that is geared towards civilian-centric operations reflects this level of operational savvy demonstrated in the pilot program, right? No, it does not. The short answer is simply no. Joint Chiefs of Staff level doctrine for four of the most civilian-centric operations is essentially silent on the operational significance and relevance of gender. One might assume, for example, that perhaps the most civilian-centric of all operations, civil-military operations, would at least deal with the operational significance of gender, at least with the start of a meaningful way. It does not, from the Joint Chiefs of Staff level in doctrine all the way down to the training manuals. Now, I would be dreadfully naive if I believed that everybody follows doctrine or whether, in fact, they read it very often. But it is important because it sets a baseline for our education of our military personnel, a baseline for their training. Also, it's going to set a baseline for resourcing, personnel and units. However, in planning and operations, people, staff sections, units, they are not likely to easily incorporate things they have never worked with into the work that they are doing in a time-constrained hectic environment. By itself, this silence is, at the very least, discouraging and inefficient. When coupled with the U.S. military's approach to climate change, however, it is simply alarming. The U.S. military seems to be taking a two-pronged approach to dealing with climate change. At home, we're hardening our installations to the effects of climate change and reducing the amount of fossil fuel we consume in order to mitigate the damage we cause. Abroad, however, our focus seems to be on assisting partner nations in responding to crisis situations that would result from climate change. What is missing is a recognition of climate change as a process in these theaters, a process with differentiated impacts on different population cohorts, particularly women and girls. An exception to this way of thinking is perhaps the national guard's use of the agricultural development teams. They were used in Afghanistan prior to the change in mission. The ADTs were composed of guardsmen and guardswomen with agricultural talents, and they had reach-back capability to their respective land-grant universities and their states for training and technical expertise. Importantly, in country, they provided their own security and transportation, and in many cases, later rotations of ADTs went back to the same area where the previous ones had been, building that oh, so rare commodity of continuity in an operational area. Also important, they were headed by 06s. That makes a difference. These later rotations also took a gendered approach to promoting agricultural practices that would be sustainable, at least from their perspective, once Western forces pulled out. For example, the 2nd Georgia ADT supported a number of projects that focused on women through its use of a women's initiatives training team, including the restoration of watershed areas that required the contractor to purchase saplings from women who had received basic literacy, instruction at a school, and had been trained on growing crops suitable for their home compounds, their collats, such as baby trees. In attempting to reset the watershed's capacities, this project sought to reverse the process of deforestation, which is successful, would build capacity in the ecosystem to buffer climate changes and facts. Unfortunately, as with the female engagement teams, the ADTs seem to have been largely forgotten by the active duty force, and I find no place carved out for them in doctrine. Further, there were unresolved concerns among civilian development workers whether this was really a proper role for the military to be engaging in at all. But regardless, this is at least an example of the military treating environmental restoration as a process rather than a fact in theater and appreciating its operational significance. So I believe that for US forces to have a greater likelihood of success in future civilian-centric operations in a time of climate change, they must organizationally confront the non-linear compounding effect of armed conflict and climate change on women and girls explicitly. Stability therefore must be considered to have a large sustainability component in the way of food, physical, water, and energy security, which must include the operational relevance of gender. Quantifying the operational relevance of gender though, establishing the business case, generating the data, that will require resources and a great deal of political will. Up until this point in time, at least within DOD, this does not seem to have happened. Thank you very much for your kind attention and the opportunity to speak to you again, and I look forward to your questions.


Welcome to Toffy TV Pre-season has begun Everton and Austria and they've got their first game this week against the mighty a TV evening Who after a lot of research? Going on Google. We basically found out there is a sixth division level team in Austria in the Oberlieg Sounds good. So essentially Everton and just playing the training match in Austria in the training base to To just finish off a week of training Yeah, it's what they normally do business is play a local team put some of the ideas into practice within a game environment and gives the players something to focus on I suppose at the end of the week rather than just Training camp playing against each other it gives them gives the manager a chance to put local players in certain positions and get everyone used to playing games again against different different players what have you made of the the snippets that we've seen this week of training and Obviously you can't gauge a lot, but what have you thought of the way? Michael Silver's gone in and is handling of the other trainer Yeah, what I like is he looks very very hands-on which is which was Kind of ties in with everything. I've read anyway and Seeing a move from people into position getting this message across getting this point across And it just looks good actually seeing a coach rather than someone just standing on the side I'm not saying that doesn't happen normally, but it's good to see and it no one What I've read and no more other ways of said about them and how he works. I think it's good I think that's what we need. I think it's good for players like Tom Davis, I think it'd be really good for people like Sandra who Who have gone away from the club and look man You've gone away on loan with one idea of the club in name I had and I've now come back to potentially a different Idea within the club if you know what I mean So the club will almost feel fresh to them again because there's a new Person at the hands of it, you know at the helm rather than and he is so hands-on So I've been I've enjoyed what I've seen so far. I mean what have you made of it? That's I think the I mean listen We're not privy to everything that's gone on. We've only get really same things. I thought the You know that things like the shooting drill and things like that way if you look about it It looks like it's a lot of hard work. Mm-hmm, but There's a focus on the ball rather than just there running laps and laps and laps or you know Going out and doing boring monotonous You know training it looks like there's a Physical physical papers to it, you know, it's to get players fit But also sharpen them up in in how they move the ball. So I think from that point of view It's it's it's what players want. It's more of a balanced idea because obviously He speaks to all professionals or players maybe you play in the lower leagues or whatever and you know There's still that idea that you know for the first couple of weeks He's just running and running and running and flogging your guts out and then eventually a ball come out It's not like that anymore. Obviously now with the way, you know, sports sciences and the way players are looked at You know, you seen them all the vests and all that keeping an eye on them and knowing how much they're putting in and what And I think that's that's really, you know That's really good to see that as and the same as you I think a Manager who is a hands-on coach who is actually telling people what they do from the start that's a real key and you know opponent of of how we will go forward because I Think all the best managers now are coaches who? drill into their teams what they want and there's no Nothing is left a chance. So nothing is left to somebody else Of course, he's got his he's got his people around them. That's why it's important He's got his people around them so that they know and maybe that's why we've seen Some people leave the club, you know, who maybe thought they were staying at the club because he wants he knows exactly what he wants He's only really Only really trust the people around them to do that, which it sounds to me That's I know every coach every manager will bring in their own people, but I Think deep when you when you boil things down to them to the Details the very fine details you need people you can trust around you Of course you do and so we'll see we'll see what happens But you know it'll be good tomorrow to see them knocking a ball round and then obviously we'll move on to Wednesday when they play They play Berry and then we'll step it up at the week next weekend when they play in Portugal Onto the black playing game and you before you know it, you know the season I'll be honest so It's good that at the end of it a Week you know players can get out there and remember what it's like to be in an event shit Yeah, I think I've liked seeing the focus of the training the different the different style that he's got You know players running off the ball things like that, and I think it's important because For him what's really key is he doesn't know what he wants and he knows what he wants from the start And I think that's where we've Missed the trick a little bit over the last few seasons. I'm not sure come and really knew what he wanted And Obviously Sam Aladise was coming and was doing whatever, you know within the season He knew what he wanted, but it was a focus of points points points, wasn't it? Whereas and I think the better Martin is knew what he wanted, but it was a different way It was more a way of playing rather than Knowing exactly what he wanted to fit into that. That's it. You know that situation so From that side of it, I think it's been good. I suppose I'm a recruitment point of view It's important as well that he knows exactly what he's got I know we all we all want to see signings, but it's important that he knows what he's got straight away, so maybe that's You know at the end of this week now we're coming to the end of the week looking at the game You can look at those players and and again, of course It's only a really a practice game, but you can look at the players and see who's really who has really Took on board those ideas and then maybe if there's any players that he's 50-50 about whether it be a Balasi whether it be a Morgan Snidlin or Even the younger players who could step in and fill those roles if you can see that little That little glimmer from the start going he's on board this he knows I can work with that maybe maybe that's That's a good opportunity you can see that in a in a game Situation rather than you know just on the training field. Yeah, you've got a lot of he's only been here If you know now we looked at a lot of footage and all up until you're working with players You instructing them, you know, we might look at players and like you've just said he might have been 50-50 on them and gone He's not really up to and now he's trying with them and the listening you can see an improvement and it comes through Might make his decision and go, you know what where we thought we need a date or seven We actually only need five because these two I can work with these these look good Oh, and my great the opposite way could be where they store these shawty shawty and then he'd work with them and gone If we if someone comes in for them, you know, I'm happy to let them go They're not really gonna do what we need them to do, but it's all down to the players Isn't it? It's the players at the end of the day they're playing the game And I think if you look at the recruitment side, yes, we want people in but we want quality It'd be nice to get one in quickly and people have missing tables when I said that the other day Quickly as long as the quality is right because I think that sets the marker out of where you're going But they have to be the right quality. You don't you don't bring players in for the sake of it. You've got to fit um But I feel as though he could be key to getting the more out of who we bought last season You know, um, maybe sands over a minute as I'll come back and be a little be a different player because you might be in a Different role maybe Davey classing might might or might not be but he can make that decision You know, maybe care and doubt will be involved where other people have gone. Well, I don't know You know and I expect Michael Keane will be better because he'll be told where he's expected to be I think Mason Holgate will be better for it. Tom Davis will be better for it. So From that, you know from that aspect, he'll play a game against the local team Everton should win the game comfortably But it'll be I should imagine it's their core finals or they'll be right off for it And it'll be a good a good idea to see I I'm looking forward to see if there's any noticeable changes and how we play from the start really, you know, it's You know, not going to be to judge you properly But it'll just be good to see whether how we attack and stuff or is it still going to be This genk token still going to be isolated with no one there You know, that'll be for me. That's interesting.  Yeah, just you know and Sigurdson's filming sharks swimming by the Last thing I seen it was a bit of it looked rough as hell. The storm was coming the storm and Jordan's still at the World Cup So it won't be flying until Saturday night. I would imagine so And he'll be out of the picture till It's the beginning of August I'd imagine So He'll put a team out and hopefully you know, you'll have to like to walk out. He'll have the likes of Genk Tosh and he can he can put a basis of a team out and and we'll see we'll see what happens and it's a good run out. It's a It's a Good end to a sugar matting everyone will play Yeah, so unless anyone Slightly carrying anything but it be a good chance maybe to look at any Robinson at that level maybe look at Adam all the time though, isn't it because but I just mean I just mean within the team You're not gonna know because they're up against no no what I'm saying is it's hard The problem is it's hard because because it is only one game and there is you know, 20 players there or whatever So it is hard to get a bit half a team half a sugar matting and that but like you say it's something to It's a good chance for for us less fans to look and go. Well, let's see what he's like Let's see what he's like But for us it's a good chance of just seeing them back, isn't it and to see a game of football With everything with never in case on so forget about the england third place four place games bothered Everett they're playing a six tier team from what's the end of england play? It's that four o'clock Both games are four I might have it on on the side just just to see if who's playing or whatever But All eyes on the blues not all about a tv a thing Do you have it? Um, there there you go. Let us know your thoughts in the comments. How do you um How would you like I'm trying to make the words seem like I'm not really taking this game seriously, but What what what do you want to take out of this game? Who do you want to see play where and and what formation and and and yeah all those things It doesn't really matter does it it just It just feels nice to watch ever it's a game of football to chance for everyone to see the play You don't get many chances to see a lot of the plays and it's an exciting time to new manager with new ideas So it's have the trucker on board. Is there a noticeable difference in the way we play? Of course, they're not gonna be the finished article Of course, we're not gonna if we win six nil it doesn't mean that's it. We shorted all the problem But it's just a good idea to see where we are And to see certain players and and play you say watching a game of footy back that you haven't been playing If they're not the finished article by Betty though, they'll be Need nice, man Let us know your thoughts in the comments. We'll see you later


Excellent. I think we can get started. I think. Okay. So, Agenda, what do we want to discuss today? So, I think that we first made, say, a couple of sentences about last week. At least for me, it was very... Oh, yeah. That's perfect. Yeah. So, I'll kick it off and finally add... This for me, it was very useful. Oh, sorry. Oh, no. Go ahead, yeah. Please, yeah. Go ahead. At least for me, it was very useful to meet, like, a good part of the community there at ONS. And I think that we had a lot of useful discussions and a lot of things to follow up. So, one of the things that actually was mentioned was... I think, Jeffrey, you are kind of initiating this about the use case with the emergency and these things. So, maybe this could be one of the topics that we can bring up today. Yeah. Certainly, nice intro, Nikolai. So, from my side, so we had the nice panel. Of course, besides the NSM talks on Kubernetes or the network service orchestrator, sort of a little bit of up-leveling of NSM, given that it's half an hour, we never really could get to NSM. But overall, it was well attended. And also, to add to Nikolai's... So, basically, stress on the use cases, especially coming from Jeff, the other one I would like to add is essentially around sort of the T-shirt files infrastructure profiles. Basically, this is nothing new. This is very much what the cloud providers do. For example, they have fixed VM sizes and also even hardware configurations when it comes to networking or computing in terms of FPGA or SRI OV. So, there is an effort called OVP, which you may all know, which is very much pushing this for the VM path. But now you want to make sure that we are also doing the same for not just DNS, but also CNS. And also bring out any certain differences with the CNS may have. I had a brief chat with Taylor, who heads over the CNCF testbed calls. And I think he is very well aware of the topic and basically said you could be a very good joint follow-up in their calls too, which occurs essentially every other Monday. So, that's just next Monday, so on and so forth. We don't go all out with them, but sort of compliment. Hey, guys. Start with one of the other things real quick without me and I'll talk about my use case as soon as I get back. I just need to check in with my boss real fast. Okay. Prem, anything? Yeah, sure. On ENSM especially, on the demo, you had a nice demo. So, yeah, there was a lot of interest with respect to the demo. People were keen on NSM and also they were looking at what is the benefit of adopting NSM. Of course, the common question that was asked was how is it different from service mesh, right? So, I mean, a lot of discussions around NSM, I would say, in all the three days. So, and the other thing is there are also interesting use cases. For example, why not we extend NSM concepts to that of both VM as well as PNF, since they are getting exposed to CNSM. Can we chain all of it together? One question people were asking. Yeah, overall, it was quite a lot of learning, a lot of interesting questions, I would say. So, anybody else? Anything on ONS before we jump into any possible agenda topics? So, if you're interested, I'll probably can showcase what is that we have demoed during the ONS. Oh, yeah, no. Let's do it. So, basically, yeah, the NSM demo. So then use cases from charter, then we can say whether the interrupt or fall, right, based on time permits. Perfect. Yeah, I think one. Okay, Prem and Ramki, before we jump into the demo, I just had one or two questions from a use case point of view. Is NSM worrying about VNF deployments as well? Or is the use case assumes that they are all CNFs. There will be a period of time where you will get into VNF less CNF. It's not that the carriers are not, don't see the value of CNFs, you know, in terms of the overall change management and all that. But from a reality point of view, I see the overall service mesh, you know, the conceptually it can be applied to VMs as well. And if you see the Kubernetes LibWord project, it does allow you to manage VMs as well, right? The high level question I have is from a use case point of view, should we define a hybrid of CNF and VNFs coexisting and achieving a higher level service goal? I truly believe so. Pani, I think that's a good question. So the one question is, as you very well know, regarding VMs on Kubernetes, there are multiple options, right? I mean, there is QBert, there's also Wordlet, which is very lightweight. So basically, so now the question is like, how do we create that alignment, right? And there may be more coming up, right? So, you know, so basically how do we put it all together? So in that sense, we didn't deem it as like the highest priority topic, like basically get our CNF story straight, you know, and then as we progress, make sure that we are aligned completely on the VNF side also, you know, from a Kubernetes perspective. But definitely if you have something right away, which something like a common aspect which can be used across these different realizations, I mean, after all, all of them use the word, right? Wordlet, you know, so we should then definitely look at it. Because at the same, the same observation about infrastructure profiles, right? So basically, they're coming from the VM lens. So now, so there's a nice GSMS pack, I'll send it to everybody. In fact, put a link to it in, you know, our document. So basically, it's funny though, it's coming from, I think the EPC probably vendors started it in GSMA, but it's very general, right? It's nothing to do with just EPC alone, right? Those infrastructure profiles. But now, yeah, we do want to make sure it's applying to CNF, but now we're thinking the other like, whatever you're doing for CNF should apply to VNF also, right? Yeah, especially the service level aspects, the service changing aspects. You know, all those are independent of the virtual compute, whether it's a VM or a container. Yeah. And that's fine, you know, if we take it in a phased approach, let's get the details worked out for a pure CNF, and then we can, as a second step, look into that. That's also fine, you know, I was just wondering if that topic has already been discussed, you know. No, we haven't gone through that detail. So basically, at least near-term, I mean, just immediately the answer is our answer in any of these use cases, the ENSM. So basically saying, hey, you know, we can inter-work with, for example, an open stack based solution, right? For VNF, or PNF, like an ODL red, which was the crux of the demo from Prem, right? Basically, we'll create the intro working as priority. And to your point, funny, like, yeah, we will start looking at this, you know, from a common perspective. I'm thinking more like just let the different initiatives settle down, like, you know, but I think I've been, I've heard support, especially, Meranto started with more than Meranto's Intel is like a big fan of it from, you know, from a lightweight perspective, extremely lightweight. Qbert is a little heavy, I believe, but it's very rich in functionality. So. Yeah, I see. Okay. Yeah, just to add to it, I agree. One other thing is at least the non-CNF functions are looked at as an NSM entity within NSM. So, and what we are trying to do is we are basically trying to ensure that they participate in all the translations needed from that of the NSM to that of the non-NSM well gets done by via the ENSM. So that's the whole crux. So from a service training point of view, how do we do it is what we would probably need to look at it. How does the construct gets translated? For example, if it's NSH based or non-NSH based, how do we get it done in a VNF on this one? Yeah, makes sense, Prem. I think the gateway model is a good transition. It's just that I have first-hand heard from carriers that going forward, they would surely like a single orchestration and single lifecycle manager for their VNFs or CNFs, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. So with that, let me get into the demo. So, Prank, you would probably need to share. Yeah, I'll share. Yeah, please. Yeah. Thank you. So let me know if you're able to see my screen. Yeah. Okay. So what we have done is we have essentially developed a stream layer which can be thought of as a ENSM to begin with between Open Daylight and NSM. I believe all of you would be familiar with Open Daylight. It's basically an open source SDN controller. And what it does is it provides the ability to support multiple south bones. For example, OpenFlow, NetConf, BGPLS, PCMM, and any other thing that you can want to add, right? At Lumina, what we have done is we have also extended it, the framework to support physical network functions. What does it mean us? We have basically a GSN RPC endpoint. And you can define an open config yang which represents a device and you can perform the operations on the open config yang and behind the scenes it gets translated into the CLI. By that, what happens is you can use Open Daylight to be the single platform to manage any device, whether it's going to be programmable or non-programmable. And that's with the same framework what you have done is we have essentially extended it to that of NSM. What it means is I was mentioning that open config for physical devices, but you can bring in any yang model and you can define the operations that you want to perform on it. And we have the translators that would essentially translate it, right? So similarly, what has been done here is we have basically the NSM part of the Open Daylight integration has two parts. One is into the NSM, it can talk GRPC. On the other side, it talks GSN RPC. So that's the whole essence of it. So what you see is essentially the yang. So all of the yang gets mounted as a yang endpoint. And here you see NSM to be yang endpoint. And from a network function perspective or a network service perspective, we have taken the sample network function, which is the ICMP responder that has been created by the team. And what this particular ICMP responder does is it basically creates a pod, injects an NSM interface to it, and then it provides you the ability to ping those interfaces so that you know the interface, the NSM interface that was been created in this pod is active. So that's the intent of this demo. So we have created four operations. One is create interface, which would essentially be invoking the create part of this whole ICMP responder, showed essentially show the interfaces, which means the pods and the respective interfaces and the ping would essentially ping those. With that, let me get into it. So basically what happens here is these are all JSON endpoints and then the operation is the JSON operation, which gets translated into GRPCN goes to that of the NSM. So for now. One clarification here. So the ICMP responder is running in NSM, that is the pod in Kubernetes, right? Yeah, that's in the NSM contest. Oh, and the endpoint is just abstract endpoint, which will just receive and create the interface on a switch, the, the, the, the NSM. So what happens is it essentially exposes that endpoint, which to create and so from the NSM perspective, it's in the endpoint, right? So it would essentially be the endpoint is nothing but the ICMP responder endpoint. It would essentially be providing all this facility. Did it answer your question? Oh, so you are, you know, my only confusion is Oh, it's an equivalent ICMP responder endpoint on the other side, on the NSM side. It's a, it's a pathway equivalent. So let me, let me take an example. Okay. So for example, let's assume you have a VPN. It's executing in the NSM context. VPN would essentially expose those operations to the outside world, which is essentially the endpoint. And then if it's an NSM client, you would essentially follow the same mechanism of trying to look for the particular endpoint, get the endpoint, and then invoke the endpoint, right? So similarly here, what happens is there has been a client, NSM client that has been developed, which would essentially be triggered by the ENSM, right? And it would talk natively to this in the NSM context, but to the outside world, it would essentially translate and give it in the format, whatever you want. Okay. Right? Yeah. Okay. So let's get into the demo. So to begin with, I'm going to just show the interfaces. So as you see, basically what it has done us, it has essentially executed that call, and then it shows what are the endpoints or what are the parts that has been created. So there are like these three parts that I've been created. NSC VPP means it is basically via socket and VPP agent means it's via the memory interface. And the IP what you see is not the CNI IP of the part, but the NSM IP. Okay. So each of these parts would essentially have the NSM interface created in it. NSM creates the interface and then assigns an IP to it. Okay. So this is what you see. Now we can ping this interface. So my question is on, is it really a point-to-point interface between the NSM part? And here it's more of a, just you are just creating any interface which is open from it, not necessarily point-to-point. For, okay. So now what happens is this example just creates an interface within the part. Right? Okay. So it just injects the interface into the part. I see, I see. But also interface, but it also means that that interface is globally addressable. That's how this is, I guess. That's right. Yeah. Okay. And Prem, is this interface visible to the existing CNI or are you replacing the CNI? Okay. So as per the NSM, the CNI will not be touched. Right? Okay. So hold on a second. I will see if I can log into the pod and show it to you so that you can see what exactly happened behind the scenes. I'm going to stop sharing and then... Prem, I'm basically trying to figure out, can you make this work with the existing CNI constructs? Yeah. So, okay. So to answer to your question, the NSM believes that the CNI will continue to exist as is. And then let's assume you want a interface. It basically injects an interface into the pod. And is that injected via the CNI or you... Independent of CNI. On top of CNI. Okay. Yes. So they are independent. Right. So you're still using the CNI to insert an interface, right? Well, when you say... So here is what it is, right? So for example, this particular... Okay. So when I say CNI, you're talking about reaching out to the pod? I mean, I'm presuming each pod already has an IP interface by which that pod... No, in addition to that of the IP interface, there will be one other... Yes. In addition to that, you will have this interface. When you say show interface or IP address, you will see CNI interface as well as the NSM interface. Got you. And just for my benefit, Prem, why do you need multiple interfaces? That is a requirement. So for example... Okay. Let me probably give a bit of background about NSM. Probably Nikolay is the master in how things work. I can give you more from a use case perspective. So the requirement, what we... how the whole NSM started was basically what happens is in case of a typical telco workload, you for sure need multiple interfaces, right? So today, in case of the Kubernetes pod, you just have one interface, which is the CNI interface, right? That is one. Second thing is, for example, many of the telco workloads would essentially need to have their own non-IP channel, which is essentially, for example, you will have an MPLS LSP or any other signaling thing, which cannot be done via your conventional IP interface of CNI, right? With that, the whole concept of the multiple interfaces, as well as these interfaces or just interfaces over which you can essentially use it for MPLS or any of other interfaces, what you need. Okay. So this can be both control and data plane. It's not really limiting itself to just only service or anything like that. Yeah. Primarily it is data plane. These interfaces would be data plane interfaces. Or as you said, you are right. It can be used for control plane as well as data plane. Yes. I see. But in the examples, whatever you see in the NSM, what happens is this particular interface is the one that would be essentially used to connect with that of your client for the data plane purpose. What it means is the VXLan would be created using these interfaces. There will be similar injection that will happen on the client and this is all done by the NSM infrastructure. I see. So Prim, one request since I think Jess is back. So basically, I was thinking, so basically if there are any detailed questions, perhaps you should follow up separately. Otherwise, I'd like to sort of, I mean Jess has some interesting ideas on the near term use cases like this. So basically we want to make some progress on it in the call. The next half an hour. Yeah, sure. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So let me, I just want to probably show you something here. Give me a second. Was your demo recorded at ONS, Prim? We could look at it offline also. No, we haven't. So pretty much this is the whole demo. Okay. So you see in the ping that this, the end point is essentially ICMP responder NSC. And then this interface got pinged and then you got the response back. And then the other thing is the other part is essentially create interface where that shows all the interface, but for benefit of time, I'll probably take it offline depending upon the interest and I can showcase the pods and the interfaces within the pod aspects like that. Okay. So this was the demo all about. Yeah. Cool. Over to you, Ramji. Thanks. So just, so do you want to talk about some of the potential near term use cases? Sure. This might isn't specifically the one for like my individual team, but just I think as like a, a very compelling use case in the provider space in general. I don't know if you guys watched the key notes that on us last week, but like AT&T did their like emergency response, like little video, right? Like, and it just go has like this specialized tag team that does this and charter we have this, but in the event of a natural disaster, you know, obviously infrastructure and services is one of the like key things that has to come up very, very quickly. And it's incredibly variable and difficult. And I was thinking a very simple use case of showing us like using something like an ENSM sitting on some small cells or, you know, some access points, you know, Wi-Fi access points, whatever, stitching directly into a provider network. So like, say like charters access network and it dynamically provisioning ports and scale for the increased load, I think would be super compelling. I haven't had a chance to like diagram this out. So it's kind of hard for me to try to just put this into words, but imagine like, you know, a tornado goes through rural Alabama and the town is packed. I mean, now we can use this right here too, right? Just kind of thing, but imagine as opposed to this more like static enterprise use case, like what we're trying to show is tornado hit the town, infrastructure's gone, you know, cell power's been taken out and we have all these responders in the area who have no connectivity. If we could show a use case to where we can bring devices online, like dynamically and as they're coming up, you know, these would like essentially be client. There would be pre-established end points in the access network in, you know, both the ran or the, you know, the Metro ethernet side of the house where they are presenting themselves as end points and accepting, you know, connection requests. And so you could basically just literally plug devices in, come up on DCP and then request your network service and suddenly bring like an emergency response network into being like largely through like a declarative network service. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. That's a very good use case, Jeff. Yeah. No makes sense. Yeah. This is sort of, this is a generalized depiction of the, I mean, edge computing use case didn't get into specific details on emergency response, but generalized edge computing, you know, how everything can happen in the edge. So basically there are two clouds, you know, you have the ran cloud on the left and then you have the edge computing cloud on the right. I mean, these could all be collapsed into one cloud, but you're spot on. I mean, yeah, nice fine-grained variation of this, right? I mean, the emergency response response to use case, how you set up the service and demand. Right. And it's not just the, it's not just the, you know, the multi-tenancy aspect of, you know, bringing more and more consumers online, specifically to using something like an EMSM short-term, such as like Prim's ODL model or writing, you know, the abstraction for network service manager to live on a PNF itself, but the, you know, QOS and the bandwidth provisioning I think is where it could be really, really dynamic, right? Like if an emergency's happened and we start putting up these small cells or these wireless access points down in the field, the actual, you know, access and like core networks prioritizing this traffic to make sure that emergency responders are, you know, able to communicate with services that are needed. Exactly. Sorry. Are we thinking, you know, creating it with like an SD-WAN style where they, they set up a box and it all just works. Yeah. That's exactly what I'm thinking is like basically using an SM to create a more dynamic SD-WAN, right?  Versus going with a more distributed declarative model. And it's exactly, I think you and I talked about this. That's exactly what I was trying to kind of articulate with basically a mobile SD-WAN like on-demand type thing. But if I understand that it's much more than, I mean, the, just the plain SD-WAN, the plain SD-WAN as this today is not, doesn't have the mobility aspect in this case. Like this just will also bring in the dynamic.  But to your point, Ramki, it goes a little bit beyond that because this would be us potentially setting up the small cells as well. Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But yeah. This actually goes to like the root. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. This goes along really well with my understanding of emergency services because interestingly, the emergency services don't generally want to use. When, when you're sending people out on the field, you don't generally want to use voice because voice is very inaccurate and be misheard or so on. So it's very common for these type of things to go over digital modes and something, if we are able to incorporate a 5G component into that where things just automatically work, that'll help them send a lot more data through such as instead of just text, they'll be able to send photos effectively and other and sound and other, and other mediums in a digital format. So do we think, do you want to just double click on this? So basically I have the PowerPoint for this. Do you want to take it and basically just craft the into an emergency responder use case and say, hey, here are the network functions and basically double click on this, you know, so that's thinking. Sure. Yeah. I'll make like a copy of this and work with them. Nikolai and Frederick on kind of expanding out like what we were discussing last week. Yeah. I mean, I guess it's basically like a, if I was going to sum it up into a single sentence, it's a declarative radio access network with an SD way and component. Perfect. Cool. Yep. I am, but I would also be happy to help in any way. So I'm putting the end to end together. So much appreciated. Um, so in the, uh, first, I mean, the sort of use case, um, just some thoughts. So, um, I was thinking everything is dynamically instantiated, like including, uh, the ran component, basically small cells being dropped on the field and I mean, the whole network is, the new network is being created, uh, including ran, is that the soft surface? I think long-term, that's where like the real value is. Um, I think starting small first and getting the SD way and component up and then, I mean, or we can go in reverse and just show the dynamically provisioned way and, sorry, ran, um, either or, but I think the story is not complete unless you have both ends of it, right? Like, if you could, um, set up a small cell and instead of everybody trying to individually go through their phones, we have, you know, like some type of 5G CPE, that's SD way and capable, that's, um, you know, reaching into the metro and asking for, you know, QOS and, um, capacity and it's doing internet offload, right? Like it's basically tunneling straight to like one of the pops and then it's out into the great blue, you know, in whatever emergency services the on-site personnel need, I think is, um, kind of like in my mind what we'd want to show, right?  And if we could show that we could make the network portion of that less chaotic and die, you know, and more dynamic than, you know, just like really all you do is like say plug this device and come on the network. And then, you know, we have a program so that it requests network service X, um, and that's pretty powerful. No, makes sense. And what is interesting is, so though the, I mean, the 3GPP has like, has so much of fancy acronym, the GPPU is nothing but like a clean UDP packet. It's very simple. So, uh, you know, um, I think if we took a demo like this to, you know, KubeCon US in, um, what is it, like November, December, like people's jobs would drop. No, no, no. Perfect. And that I think the Iran, sort of the, um, I feel that starting from Rand's small, small, extremely attractive because it sort of gives it end to end rate to basically the dynamic, uh, Rand creation, right? Uh, to a point. Basically.  So, you know, um, so Jeff, um, funny here. Um, I, I actually like the use case, the way you have defined it. And it's a very valid one. Um, just wearing the technical hat. Um, does it make sense to, uh, obviously it's two pieces, right? One side is the SD van piece. The other side is the radio part or the, um, the radio, uh, Rand part of it, you know, if you look at the three GPP spec also, they clearly separate the radio access from the packet access networks, right? The SD van kind of starts at the packet side of the overall, into a book, right? So, um, even from a use case point of view, would you agree if it is like bringing on board a new SD van site, uh, but, but from a use case point of view, you bring some good points as to what kind of dynamism and special requirements that particular SD van site need to, uh, support. Uh, and how can we make that integration with the, uh, 4G or 5G LTE network, uh, um, more tighter and so on. Um, does that make sense to kind of separate them into two pieces, but obviously define specifics about how tightly these two can be potentially integrated. Yeah. I mean, you're going to have, you know, network service managers that are unique to each section of this, um, I think from a development standpoint, you can develop them independently of each other. I think for the end to end, like showcasing of it. Um, like you said, it would basically be like a new site activation, but specifically as opposed to a wired connection, um, it would be a 4G or a 5G enabled, um, CPE, right? And so you drop a small cell into the disaster location or multiple small cells and those are dynamically provisioned into the ran.  Um, because the thing about SD-WAN is it's really hard and like, despite the fact that lots of really smart people have been designing solutions for a long time. I mean, I have lived through the tele deployments, first deployments and launch deployments. I mean, they all have their strengths and weaknesses and there's always caveats, gotchas and pain points. And so, um, you know, basically like having like a land that you create that's tying back into both the radio access network via the LTE antenna on the CPE, which is then helping you back all of your traffic to the actual internet itself, I think is, is cool. So, um, to your question, because I tend to always talk and have a bros and roundabout manner is from a technical standpoint, yes, I think that they can largely be, you know, their own standalone use cases, but then also showing the integration between the two is like where, you know, the powerful message comes in. Um, exactly. Um, just to add to that, actually if you look at this use case, it's almost like the left side, like the BBU and then the 4G SKGP, this is sort of your, your RAN and then, so basically the ETC, then you do a handoff to the packet network at this point, you do a handoff, then you can do basically the coming, uh, you can directly handoff to an edge computing application here. Right. Um, you know, maybe there could be a first standard that, that edge computing application could be a first standard responder application right on the CPA device itself. Or it could go to internet, right? So that's sort of the, and Romkey, the EPC itself can be a CNF, you know, there's nothing stopping it. So it could be managed. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, uh, literally all this, this was trying to demonstrate a distributed edge cloud use case, but all of this could be collapsed in a box itself. Right. Totally possible. Everything. Right. And then with a outcomes, like for an SD-WAN interface, right? In, in is basically a radio out as SD-WAN. It's all in a box. Yeah. Actually, uh, I think that is where I believe, uh, the 5G comes in handy, right? So the thing is the whole responder can sit within the premise of the, um, the RRH, uh, or along with the, any app that sits along with RRH, so that it just can respond depending upon the information it has. Yeah. This actually nicely ties with, there's a very nice, uh, sort of a presentation from, um, uh, Verizon and Intel on sort of a CTE, uh, you know, Converse CTE. So I think this falls very well in place. Sort of, you know, CTE in a box, which does both the network function processing and also application. So maybe sort of first responder in a box sort of, you know, we could visualize it, but of course with the internet phasing interface, it's got both, uh, the RAN or the wireless component on the left side, right? On the right side of your applications and to internet. Yeah. I think, uh, just to summarize from a technical point of view, you know, the SD-WAN as a branch router, uh, if you visualize that as a CNF, VNF that combined with a, EPC, whether it's serving 4G or 5G, you know, these two VNFs coming together, I think there'll be a lot of interesting use cases. That's correct. Um, uh, Pani also would like to add the basically, if they're bringing up RAN, then whatever needed for RAN, like basically the BBU component also, the BBU, EPC, because they're all separate, right?  Now would that, uh, the BBU part is that, uh, in your picture, it's already containerized. Um, is, um, so it could be, it could be container or VM. Um, at least in each, each component could be container VM at least. I've seen more of a VM based. Um, it depends. I think, uh, it, it all depends on sort of the latency requirements. Uh, so some are not virtualized at all. So basically, if you want like ultra low latency, you can virtualize the BBU itself. So basically that's one model. Or you virtualize if you're not, uh, critical on latency. So, uh, you know, it all, I guess in this case, uh, probably, uh, the first responder latency is a very critical aspect, right? So, uh, so perhaps, uh, and that first, the L2 part, uh, will not be virtualized. Yeah. And that first responder use case, uh, you know, it's a very interesting scenario. I've, I've seen as part of my new Nokia days is that, uh, like an emergency ambulance, you know, who is picking up some patient and you need to, uh, the only reachability you have is through 4G, 5G. Uh, it's an LTE and, and it needs the lower latency you have, the better when you're, um, you know, you need to do the hospital that you're driving towards. Uh-huh. Yeah. I, I think that, uh, one of the nice things that we have, one of the nice advantages is we can establish different types of connections and facilitate them. So there's two things I'm thinking of. First one is, uh, there'll be a large number of different types of, uh, systems that need to be interconnected. We can help facilitate those interconnections. And the second one is those connections, like I have to get the eight message through as fast as possible, uh, in order to save in order to save someone. There's also another use case where the speed of the message is not as important, but what does matter is that this message has very strong possibility of getting through under adversarial conditions. So those ones, it's okay to be slower. It's okay to bring in things that are, uh, that have higher error correction, recent, uh, properties. And so one really good example is, I think there was a, like in 1989, they had this, during California or the San Francisco Bay Area, and they had trouble getting messages saying like, you know, Frederick Couch is okay. He's, he's, he's at the friend's house or, or something like that.  Actually went over the ham radio groups and, uh, they then created a database there that people could call into to ask, Hey, is this person okay? Okay. And so this ended up, uh, preventing people from flooding in, trying to find their loved ones because they knew that people were okay. And it was that one, the speed was not important, but it was important for that message to get through. Cool. Cool. Yeah. That's interesting. The point, the other interesting fact about, um, the emergency ambulance network, uh, you know, it's like a disaster is happening every day. No.   It's about guaranteeing the delivery. So with the Cures components across from the edge to the core, to the final hospital network, you know, uh, I think that kind of a service also could be potentially highlighted. So, um, so what you're saying is essentially in the bank is, is the two side, both sides could be all mobile, right? Like the SD van side is also highlight here is SD van side is also completely mobile. Correct. Yeah. I would actually say that on the far left-hand side there, right?  And we show it making a connection to the ran, which was also dynamically provisioned. And then there would actually be another tunnel going through the radio access network to that PE router, right? Um, and then getting the internet or to the trusted edge compute, but, um, but yeah. Um, like the SD van would be its own workflow, right? And it would be all based on, um, you know, IP traffic, but, um, it would use the radio access network to tunnel into the core network that's on the right-hand side. Yeah. And it's, it's almost like Ramki each ambulance is a, is a branch by itself, you know, it's a mobile branch. Yeah.  Cause even with orchestration, like if you had a service provider that had, um, network service managers running in their access network and in their connection, um, um, in all of this, right? Then even with orchestration, you have to define the variables every single time, right? Like you'll have some type of, you know, data model that like shows what the service looks like, but that service needs to be populated versus the network service model method is if these managers are out there, then as that edge site comes up the branch, right? Then as opposed to us, you know, having to make sure that the environment variables are set correctly so that this service model applies correctly, it's instead just going to come on to the network and request the overlay, right? And, um, it removes a lot of chance for human error. And, you know, to Fani's point that first hour is the most critical. And as opposed to spending the first 45 minutes configuring the network and getting it up and this and that, it should be plug it on, make sure it has an IP address so that it can hit the underlay.  And it's just done, right? Like, Yeah. It should be the, uh, you and I kind of a model which is dynamically asking for what service it needs. Absolutely. And it needs to happen in real time. Um, so I think the more we highlight such dynamic use cases, the containerized network functions, the more visible to the non-technical guys also, you know. Yeah, um, exactly. And I like Fani the way that the time criticality, right? Emergency like basically like every second, you know, or every millisecond matters, we can phrase it in any way, right? Every millisecond calls, right? Yeah. I specifically paid extra attention to that in my new watch Nokia, because, you know, I wanted to make more marketing mileage out of it. My suggestion internally at that time was that let's take one of the European cities and, you know, uh, give our SD van solution free of cost and demonstrate that and it'll be on the news all over. And, you know, so I think it better connects with every human, you know, uh, when you highlight, when you cut, when you relate it to a real world use case like that. Yeah. So, uh, in fact, uh, what I can do is I have the slides for this. This is the basically I can distribute to the team and maybe Fani also, you may have some looks like you may also have some interesting flights from Nokia. I mean, any shareable, I mean, again, I don't know from the past, right? Uh, there is anything, uh, which is publicly shareable. We can, you know, use that looks to be, I think, uh, brought on, right? So, you know, tying the story together. Yeah. The real world use cases are pretty public, right? It's, it's about how innovatively we map the technology we are developing towards that, right? Uh, and, and the extra value that we can add. Uh, no, what I meant was if there is anything like sort of, uh, uh, pictorially also, we can leverage. I mean, if there's something that we can leverage from the, uh, from your past work, uh, because it takes time to construct this pretty picture, right? A nice picture always helps us thinking out loud. I mean, if there is something shareable. Yeah. Yeah. No, nothing, nothing's secretive or proprietary to that. You know, I can draw up a few things. Yeah. Perfect. Awesome. Um, most of the use cases are actually coming from the carriers, right? Like what Jeff is explaining. It's not really from the vendor, right? So there's not, uh, they're not vendor specific. Yeah. No, perfect. No, no, no, make sense. Yeah. Yeah. We have heard this emergency use case also from several operators. No, this is, and, and I think it's a right one for the amount of dynamism needed is extreme. I mean, basically, you know, uh, super duper fast automation, right? Yeah. Yeah. One, one of the things that I'm really excited about is to take not only the fact that it's like nasty one style, but also the ability to dynamically pick and choose the communication technique and method dynamically based upon the needs. So we can, we can do things like with auto healing, uh, we could dynamically increase the resilience of the link, uh, if it fails too many times and make sure that that message gets through. Um, or we could also, uh, increase the overall speed of it. If we see that the connection is very resilient and we have statistics on error correction and see, Oh, there's fewer errors. Let's go ahead and reduce the error correction and get that message faster. But with a, it was still hitting the DSLA. So I'm really excited about, uh, this particular use case because it shows a very complex dynamic situation and that, and they distributed nature of this system will lens very well for, uh, for, uh, solving the, uh, problem at hand. So I know I think this is fantastic. The last little marketing bit too, right? Is we're trying to show like actual cloud native networking that we are not customizing the infrastructure for this use case, right? The whole concept is an immutable infrastructure with a common deployment model. So whether, you know, I'm in Alabama or I'm in, you know, Massachusetts disaster strikes, I go there and the network service is the network service. I put devices out there. It makes the request. Then I expect repeatable results every single time without having to change the infrastructure itself. Yeah, we are sounding more like marketing. It's also, it's also quite important. I think that picking the right use case. Absolutely. It was a positive joke. You know, we have to market. We've got to justify to our bosses to keep letting us. I know. Exactly. This is awesome. So fantastic in the top of the hour. So, um, if needed, I think, uh, we could also meet on demand. So I will send the slides. Uh, I mean me and frame created basically, uh, this is like a literally, uh, cut face and PowerPoint, right? Um, so basically I'll send, share the slides with the team, everybody. Um, so, um, uh, I mean, so we are meeting two weeks from now, right? If needed, I would be glad. And we should, I think meet earlier too. It's needed. Um, do you want to, uh, see we should meet this. Some other slot this week next week or, uh, decide offline. What do you get things? Yeah. Let's, let's first, um, just put some stuff on there. We can put, uh, Google comments in there and then just kind of let it spawn organically. I think. Perfect. So, um, we, we want to do it on slide. At least the Google doc is very, at least, um, I find it not very friendly for pictures. Uh, PowerPoint, I think seems the most friendly. At least, uh, um, from what I've seen at no other, uh, viewpoint literally here it is. Well, you've got this in a Google doc. They do have the Google presence. No, I, I, this is actually done in a PowerPoint and that case. So this is all coming from PowerPoint. The Google doc is very painful to actually directly do this. So get in a PowerPoint and actually just, it's a paste in the image, paste in the Google doc. That's how this is. Yeah. I'm open to whatever. I do got to run to my next meeting though, guys. So I will have the PowerPoint and we can kick it off from there. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you. Bye. Bye.