Good morning everyone. Thank you for joining class the last day of this week. Before we begin class, can I ask Isaac Bendy to lead us in prayer please? Okay, let us pray. Father in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who come before you this morning. We want to thank you for everything you are doing and you are going to do for us. We thank God for our lecturers. We thank God for all our classmates for making us meet today to listen to your word. We want to ask that your grace may cover us as we continue to go through the cause. Let the Holy Spirit impact your word, let the word be afloat in our lives so that we can be a good example to others. We thank you for everything in Jesus mighty name. Amen. Amen. Thank you. On Wednesday we began looking at chapter seven the doctrine of redemption and the doctrine of justification and sanctification. So on Wednesday we looked at what redemption means and to get a whole idea of this word redeem or redeeming redemption. We looked at various Greek words as mentioned in the verses in the Bible and scripture and we tried to understand or get a better understanding of what the doctrine of redemption is and we also looked at what we are redeemed from and what are the benefits of redemption. Today we look at the doctrine of justification and sanctification. So what do you understand by this term or this word justification? What do you understand by the word justify justification? Justification as you come to understand is like when you are accused and brought before the court of law just for an example and then in the cause of justice the the judge says you are acquitted you are declared free you are not guilty as charged you are set free. So justification is like Jesus redeemed redeeming us from the wages of sin that's my understanding. Thank you Isaac good understanding a good example as well the courtroom where you know the person who is convicted of doing something that is wrong is justified as pronounced not guilty and set free. Super she says someone who's the justification means declared righteous thank you.  Biblical justification means we were guilty of sin and the innocent being Jesus Christ after being convicted for death he came in and said no let me take up the position of the sinner and he was killed on our part or he was crucified for our own sins so this is this is how I take it we were already guilty by the sin of one man Adam so we all were supposed to be to get our penalty which was death but an innocent man came and said instead of colleagues instead of John instead of who to be killed let me offer my innocence and the court was accepted and we was killed on our behalf. Thank you Pastor. Thank you for that good explanation yes we were sinful we are guilty but Jesus the righteous one the sinless one died in our place and took on our guilt our punishment and hence we were pronounced as not guilty as someone who's innocent completely forgiven and declared righteous yes in the courtroom of God we are standing as now as people were justified because of the righteousness of Jesus Christ because he took our punishment he took our place and hence we are justified thank you for that good detail explanation anyone else wants to add to what Isaac and Lubega said uh Subashi said declared righteous so what does righteous mean? Justification biblically means like when God forgives he justifies us like as if we have not sinned yeah as if we have not sinned never sinned. Thank you Rosalind for that explanation yes it's true that you know because of what Christ did for us on our behalf now we stand justified in the presence of God in the courtroom of God so to say we stand in his presence and God sees us just as if we have never sinned and it's because of what Christ has done for us and because of his righteousness so what does thank you Rosalind for that good explanation what does righteousness mean? Right stand with God. Thank you John yes righteousness means that we have a right standing with God that we are able to relate to God just like Adam and Eve had a right standing with God when they were created but when they sinned they became enemies of God they lost their standing with God but now we have a right standing with God and once we believe Jesus Christ as our person savior the word of God says in Ephesians that we are seated in heavenly realms that is our standing our standing is that we are you know made righteous or right in God's sight with no free from guilt free from all sin right also means that we belong to belong now to God's family we are sons and daughters and also right standing means that you know we are not seen as enemies of God but we are now friends of God thank you all for your valuable inputs appreciate that so justified basically means that like Isaac said you know we are in the courtroom and we are seen as sinners but because of what Jesus has done we are declared as acquitted we are declared not guilty we are completely forgiven we are made innocent and made just as if we have never sinned okay isn't that wonderful that the moment we accept Jesus as our Lord and our Savior that we are acquitted we are declared not guilty we are completely forgiven made innocent made just as if I never sinned just imagine you standing in that box where you know you are guilty of what you have done guilty of some wrongdoing and you deserve the punishment and you are so frightened whether you know I mean of course you're going into prison or it can be lifetime or it can be a death sentence that you have to face just imagine the the anxiety imagine the the shame imagine the pain that you're going through and suddenly the judge pronounces you as not guilty you know that is the extent of the love of God the Father that is such a great sacrifice that Jesus has made on our behalf so the next time you know we want to give in to our sinful lustful passions or desires or want to feed our carnal nature we need to always remember this you know where we stand where we were standing where we stand now you know we were standing as sinners but now we are standing you know the right hand of God we're seated in heavenly places that is our standing that is our position and we never want to bring disgrace or shame or pain to the one who has you know who has planned this for us and the one who sacrificed this for us and it says you know don't grieve the Holy Spirit Ephesians chapter 4 don't be the Holy Spirit that is in you okay so justification is an instantaneous legal act it's instantaneous means it happens the very moment we just accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior that very moment that very instant you know you know we are considered by God as you know forgiven of our sins and Christ's righteousness belongs to us God declares us righteous in his sight so justification as is an instantaneous legal act it's legal because it's lawful according to the law we stand condemned as sinners the verdict has already been passed death sentence but you know because of what Christ has done he took our place so it's an instantaneous legal act which means it's lawful it's an authorized act in which God considers our sins as forgiven and Christ's righteousness as belonging to us and we also know that justification is when God declares us righteous in his sight that means we are right with him we are no more seen as enemies or no more seen as sinners okay in Romans chapter 4 verse 5 we read that God justifies a sinner who repents not by excusing their sin or denying their sinners but by pardoning our sins so when God justifies a sinner who repents it's not that God excuses our sins it's or he denies our sins but he pardons our sins because of the full sufficient sacrifice that has been made for us okay so we look at some truths about justification just for us to learn a little more about what justification is so you know when we are justified it means that God declares that we that the penalty for sin has been paid the penalty for our sins that the sins that are committed in the past sins that are committed in the present sins that are committed in the future has already been paid and the price has been paid by Jesus Christ and we have the virtues of the perfect righteousness before God that means we stand perfectly righteous before God why do we stand perfectly righteous before God or what do we mean by saying that you know we are seen as perfectly righteous before God because of Jesus sacrifice because of Jesus's sacrifice yes because Jesus's righteousness has been imputed on us okay God declares us to be just but declares us to be righteous because not because of what we have done it's not because of our merits it's because Christ's righteousness has been imputed on us what does it mean that Christ's righteousness has been imputed on us any thoughts ideas on this what do we mean by saying that Christ's righteousness has been imputed on us it means that Christ you know God thinks because of Christ's righteousness God thinks of Christ's righteousness as belonging to us so when we say that God imputes Christ's righteousness on us it means that God thinks of Christ's righteousness as belong as something that belongs to us or regards it as belonging to us or he reckons it to our account now what does it mean of reckon it to our account or what does it mean he reckons we read this when we look at Abraham's life it says Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness so what does reckon mean reckon basically means something that is accounted something that is counted something that is imputed it basically means you know put down into one's account okay so it's like Christ's righteousness has been put into my account Christ's righteousness has been put into each one of our accounts and it is there and you can take it to be as it is there in your account and it is something that can be counted as a fact so we consider as righteous in God's sight not because we have taken that step of you know of asking him for forgiveness and you know asking you know acknowledging that we are sinners repenting of our sins asking him for forgiveness and asking Jesus to come into our lives sometimes we can have this kind of a spiritual pride or salvation pride you know it's like others haven't accepted Jesus Christ but I was humble in humble enough to you know to acknowledge that I'm a sinner when others consider themselves as not as that they don't sin what they're doing is not wrong but compared to them I'm humble enough you know to accept the fact that I'm a sinner I'm humble enough to tell God that you know I've sinned against him I've broken his heart I'm humble enough to ask him to come into my life and I'm trying my best you know to live a life that is honoring and pleasing in his sight now we can kind of take spiritual pride in that but I hope if you're you know following through the lessons very attentively use you can you would have noticed or acknowledge the fact that there is nothing about us that we can really say it's it's about us that has a kind of brought about you know God's grace or favor or his righteousness his justification or his redemption in our life it's basically God's grace his mercy it's a gift of course it's a it's a two-way process you know God so loved the world that he gave his only son but it also says that whoever believes in him you know shall not perish so it's it's something that God has done but we need to acknowledge it but let's not take pride in that because if you look at it you know it's none of our merits it's just God's gift and we are considered righteous in God's sight because Christ's righteousness has been imputed or it has we are reckoned righteous before God because of Christ's righteousness that means we are clothed in Christ's righteousness Christ's righteousness has been put into our account and we have that in our account and that's why God looks as as as if we are righteous okay so let's count it as a fact that you know we have been made righteous it's because God sees Christ's righteousness as belonging to us or regards it as something that is being reckoned into you know or put into our account okay the next truth about justification is the fourth one is that justification comes entirely by God's grace and as I said it's not anything that can be said because it's our merit or it's in ourselves but it's entirely God's grace can one of you please read Romans chapter 3 verses 20 to 24 please Romans 3 20 to 24 and somebody else can open up to Galatians chapter 2 verse 16 so as Rosalind reads Romans 3 20 to 24 someone else can open to Galatians chapter 2 verse 16 yes Rosalind would you like to read Romans 3 20 yes Romans 3 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who believe for there is no difference for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus thank you so we see that you know all of us have sinned fallen short of the glory of God but we are justified freely by God's grace that is through Jesus Christ thank you Rosalind can one of you please read Galatians chapter 2 verse 16 please Galatians 2 16 going that amen is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Christ Jesus even that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified thank you we cannot be justified by keeping the law the keeping the commandments because no one can be justified by just keeping the law but it is through faith in Christ Jesus and this is something that was a constant that's something that Paul constantly reminded the early church even as he writes letters to the church at Corinth Rome church at Ephesus Crete is constantly reminding them it's because of this Jewish converts who come from the Jewish faith into Christianity still bring in this rules and regulations you know of circumcision and keeping other rituals and bring in their Jewish fables and myths and genealogies stories which you know a kind of Jewish tradition holds but it's not in the canon it's not in the scripture so to say and they were trying to propagate that or trying to teach that to the Gentile believers saying that they need to adhere to all of this you know for their works of salvation so Paul was continually reminding the churches that it's not by keeping the law it's not by works but just we are justified by faith in Christ Jesus and it's a free gift and it's not by keeping the law so he talks about that in Galatians in Timothy his letters to Timothy and also in his book to the church at Rome Romans if you look at Romans chapter six seven talks about about the law and about sin okay so we are justified by faith in Christ Jesus and we know that even the faith that requires us for salvation is not something that is natural but it's also God given faith okay so what are some of the practical implications of justification since justification is a free gift and we receive it only by faith in Christ Jesus and what he has accomplished on the cross it kind of offers a hope a genuine hope for unbelievers it also for so that they can you know come to a place where they can accept the love of God the sacrifice of God and this free gift that is freely available because if you look at the other so-called religions you know everything salvation is by works they have two things but you know Christ has made it freely available for us it's just by putting our faith in the complete completed work in the completed sacrifice of Jesus and we receive it by faith okay and the another practical implication is that we can have absolute confidence before God or we have absolute confidence in God because he will never make us pay for the penalty for our sins so when we talk about paying the penalty for our sins it's basically death right the wages of sin is that like we read in Romans so you know we'll have this assurance that you know we will never pay the penalty for that that means we will enjoy eternal life right here now it is not something that is an just an eschatological hope that means something we're in the future where we will experience eternal life in heaven but it is a realized eschatology salvation is a realized eschatology eternal life is a realized eschatology that means it is something that we realize now in the present even though it is something way in the future that we will see it's complete a fulfillment complete picture complete glory but it's something that we can realize here now in the present so we enjoy eternal life we enjoy the benefits of salvation here and now and we have this assurance that we will never taste eternal death but we will enjoy eternal salvation and we can have this absolute confidence in God when we accept him as our personal savior that we have been redeemed that we have been justified God looks at us as if we have never sinned we are forgiven completely forgiven and Christ's righteousness has been imputed on us reckoned to us and we stand righteous because Christ's righteousness covers us it clothes us and God looks at us as we are righteous and justified in his presence okay so this is about justification anyone has any questions any doubts anything that you'll like to share any thoughts no okay if there are no thoughts or questions or queries we look at the doctrine of sanctification so what does sanctification mean what does the term sanctification mean it's a progressive work of God which makes a person more more or more Christ like thank you Zlatoli it's a progressive work of God which makes a person more Christ like yes Abu Bakr patient is pretty short processing through God and wish all believers become more like Christ thank you it's a work of God to and it's a process and through which a believer becomes more like Christ thank you anyone else okay so sanctification is a progressive work what does it mean by our what do we mean by saying it's a progressive work it's a continuous process continue something thank you Isaac it's something that is continuous you know it happens throughout our life we are redeemed once for all we are justified made righteous in God's side once for all it's an instantaneous act but sanctification is something that begins the moment we ask Jesus to be the Lord and Savior of our life but then it's something that continues throughout our life and you know it's the work of God and it is something that requires even our our cooperation so it's something that happens throughout our life it's a progressive work of God and man okay so it's requires our support it requires our cooperation so when I say that it requires our support it requires our cooperation what do I mean to ask God to sanctify us to cleanse us thank you Rosalind so yes Loubeka I think mom it it needs much as God is more powerful that is the most powerful being that does not need our support but on this one since God gave us a power of choice as we are living in this world after we've been justified by Christ we still live in a human body whereby we should keep on doing the right decisions that are Jesus like so that we continue in our process of salvation as we see as it is written in gems that are faith without works would be dead so we won't say that since we were justified we continue living a sinful life doing everything because we think it was finished on the cross but we should keep doing things that we think are moderately right as far as Christ lived in this world that's my submission pastor thank you Loubeka so yes God is sovereign but in his sovereignty is giving us a free will to choose we have chosen salvation but we also need to make the everyday choice every moment choice to consecrate our lives to choose to make choices according to God's will that pleases him we need to so you know so to say lay our lives the altar every day where we are consecrating dedicating and resubmitting our lives our areas of our life because when you're born again we are born made new in our spirit man but our mind and our bodies you know still have the same old cravings and tendency to tend towards sin the lust of the eyes the lust of flesh and the pride of life and so we need you know God to work in us and the extent that we allow the Holy Spirit to sanctify us to that extent he will sanctify us so if we you know say God I consecrate this area of my life but you know another area we when it comes to when it comes to our you know the way we speak you know no control over our tongue what we speak what we say then you know or maybe in another area we are in our thoughts we are maybe pure and clean or maybe we don't watch anything that is displeasing or dishonoring in God's side but we see that certain areas we have allowed the Holy Spirit to sanctify us but there are certain areas we still need to allow him like you know the area of how we use our tongues the way we speak you know so we need to consecrate every part of us our whole being so that it can be made wholly righteous in God's sight so yes it's a progressive work of God and it requires a cooperation to the extent that we allow the Holy Spirit to sanctify us to that extent he will sanctify us and you know he will free us from sin he will make our lives just like Christ so in our thoughts in our motives in our actions in our reactions in our attitudes in our behaviors we will tend to be more Christ alike okay Hebrews chapter 10 verse 14 says for by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified so you see here that you know the perfection forever happens only to those who are being sanctified it's a continuous process being not those who are sanctified but it says being sanctified so this this phrase he perfected forever those who are being sanctified makes it plain that the work of Jesus is effective only for those who are being sanctified those are consecrated themselves every part of themselves and the work of Jesus is capable of saving every human being but the work of sanctification is only effective in those who are being sanctified that means who are you know setting apart the members of their body or the faculties of their body every part of their being you know to God okay there are three stages of sanctification sanctification has a definite beginning that means it begins when a person is born again and you know when we are born again the power of sin in our bodies is broken and we no longer can continue to love sin can one of you please read one John chapter 3 verse 9 please one John chapter 3 verse 9 so sanctification happens when a person is born again and when we are born again the power to sin is broken we no longer can continue to love sin or you know continue to give into our own sinful habits one John chapter 3 verse 9 can one of you read please whoever has been born of God does not sin for his seed remains in him and he cannot sin because he has been born of God thank you so if you're born of God then you know you cannot sin okay the second thing is stage of sanctification is that sanctification increases throughout our life okay it happens throughout our journey in life the moment we accept Christ till the day we die we are set free from sin we are dead to sin at the same time you know we should not present our members of our body to sin and so that we do not become slaves of sin again but we have to yield to God as it's given in Romans chapter 6 in Romans chapter 6 it basically talks about you know talks about sin and not presenting our members of our body to sin and Paul there writing the church at Rome presents five action points that we must take to live a life free of sin in verse 11 he says you know reckon yourselves free from sin that means Christ righteousness has been put into our account that means you just reckon for yourself that you know you are no longer you know belonging to sin or account of sin is not there in your members anymore verse 12 he says do not let sin reign in your bodies in verse 13 Paul says to not present your bodies as instruments to righteousness he goes on to say verse 13 but present yourselves to God and he says in the same verse verse 13 present your members of your body as instruments of righteousness okay and he says you know the law is not able to keep you from sinning because the law does not strengthen you or support you not to sin the law only makes you aware of sin that you have missed the mark that you're fallen short of God standard but then Paul goes on to write in Romans chapter 8 he says with the help of the Holy Spirit and not by our own efforts we will be able to you know keep the law we'll be able to keep the commandments we'll be able to overcome the desires of the flesh and we will be able to please and offer our bodies as instruments of righteousness that is holy pleasing in God's sight because the Holy Spirit will empower us okay so please take time to read Romans chapter 6 this weekend it basically says that you know we shouldn't present our members of our body to sin will be because when we do that it becomes slaves of sin again but we have to yield to God okay and Paul also writes in Philippians chapter 3 verses 13 and 14 he says brethren I do not count myself to have apprehended but one thing I do for getting those things which are behind and reaching forward to the things which are her head okay so we need to look ahead and do things that are pleasing in God's sight Colossians chapter 3 verse 10 says and have put on since we put on the new man who's renewed in the knowledge according to the image of him who created him okay so let's renew ourselves every day mind soul spirit body so that we can be sanctified and be like Jesus okay so that is the the second stage of sanctification that it increases throughout our life the third thing is that sanctification is completed when the Lord returns or when we go to be with the the Lord Philippians chapter 3 verses 20 and 21 says for our citizenship it's in heaven and we eagerly wait for the Savior our Lord Jesus Christ okay and first Corinthians chapter 5 verse 23 and 49 says but each one in his own order Christ the first fruits afterward those who are in Christ at his coming okay so we are waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ when we will go to be with him and when that's when our sanctification will be the work of sanctification in our lives will be completed okay so we see that sanctification is a process it begins when we've when you're born again we accept Jesus as a Lord and Savior the Lord Jesus is the one who sanctifies us as we read in first Corinthians chapter 1 verse 30 but it also involves you know our role in that in that it involves us being active active and a passive role that we have to play so what is the passive role the passive role is we just trust God we pray and ask him to sanctify us and we yield to God's work of sanctification in us so that is a passive role when we pray and ask him to sanctify us and we yield to God's work of sanctification in us the active part is or the active role that we need to take is you know we need to put to death the deeds of the flesh okay Romans chapter 8 verse 13 can one of you please read Romans chapter 8 verse 13 one of you can turn to Romans chapter 12 verse 1 please so can one of you please read Romans 8 13 and someone else can read Romans 12 1 Romans 8 13 for if you live according to the flesh you will die but if you if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live yeah so we need to daily minute by minute as well hour by hour put to death the deeds of the flesh not live to fulfill the lust of the eyes and lust of flesh the pride of life but we need to live by the spirit when we live by the spirit we will put to death the deeds of our body that means our carnal nature will get starved you know it will no longer you know so rise up or force us to give into its sinful lustful passions because we are continuing to feed us spirit filled nature okay Romans 12 one can one of you please read that please Romans 12 one I just want to say therefore brethren we are for brethren by the martyrs of God that sent your body a living sacrifice only after to undo God which is your reasonable service thank you what is our reasonable service what is our reasonable worship to God it's offering or presenting our bodies as a living sacrifice holy pleasing and acceptable to God okay so only when we are allowing the world holy spirit to work in our lives to sanctify us can we present our bodies as a living holy sacrifice which is pleasing and acceptable in God's sight okay and then we need to also what is our active role we need to work out our salvation Philippians chapter 2 was 12 and 13 can one of you read that please Philippians chapter 2 was 12 and 13 Rosalind would you okay go ahead John therefore my beloved as you have always obeyed not us in my presence only but now much more in my absence work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who works in you both the will and to do for his good pleasure thank you so here we see that we need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling so even salvation is not just something that happens the moment we ask but Jesus to you know be the Lord and Savior of our lives but we need to work out our salvation daily you know with fear and trembling that means with respect honoring God you know for what he has done and honoring him with the the choices that we make and how we live our lives okay so therefore we need to continually build up a pattern and have habits of holiness okay before we close we'll just look at the differences between justification and sanctification justification is our legal standing that means it's our position the position of man before God sanctification is our internal condition of man you know whether we are living holy upright lives consecrated lives before God justification it happens once for all the moment we ask Jesus to be the Lord and Savior of our lives it happens at very moment happens once for all for all time but sanctification we know is a continuous process it happens throughout lives justification is entirely God's word we know we we learned that it's a gift of God it's not by anything that we do or not by our good works our merits nothing it's entirely God's work it's his gift to us but sanctification is something that we cooperate with God the extent that we cooperate we allow him to that extent we will be sanctified justification is when we are made perfect in this life sanctification is when we need to be changed more into his likeness justification is the same for all Christians but the sanctification is you know to the extent we are submitting consecrating laying our lives in the order to that extent so it's greater in some because they are consecrating their lives more they're concentrating their members their bodies more to God every area of their lives and for some it's less because there's some parts where God is in control some parts they are in control of their lives they are riding their cars they are in the driver's seat they are moving it forward so to the extent that we allow is the extent that the sanctification happens and it's greater in some and lesser in the others okay so that is about justification and sanctification or any questions anyone has any questions any doubts yes i have a problem not with the doctrine of foundation with the assignment on christiology yes i had the same problem which i rosalie uh on the section i see on the assignment that is missing so i said to classroom i responded to your message i said we have received it and i i have your assignment yes i have your assessment okay god bless you thank you yeah okay if there's no questions no doubts maybe you can take it in the next class you can go through your notes and when we meet on venice day we can clear your doubts and questions if you have any uh so have a good weekend have a blessed refreshing weekend and i'll see you all on monday okay bye everyone


This talk will be about the interest to run your applications that you are building guys. And first, about myself, I am now an engineering manager at Twisto. And I also do some DevOps consulting on the side because I don't work full-time at Twisto. And before I started chemistry, I co-founded a machine learning startup that still exists. And if you have any questions, just let me up on Twitter or just write me an email. So this talk will be mostly for software as a service companies that are growing. I will be showing how we did at Twisto. How we did the infrastructure choices. And in the end, I will share some practical tips on how to work with bare metal servers or how to combine stuff if you want to go the same route as we did. So when you are making an online service, most of the developers focus on the shiny things, on the software or on the user experience. But there is a lot of hidden infrastructure and the supporting stuff. Like the diamond cannot be in the void. You need some servers for your software. And these servers need to be in some data center. And like when you are choosing a place to display your diamond, the infrastructure has a big impact on how people perceive your service and how easy it will be for you to develop it. So also you have a lot of choices you can make when you are thinking about deploying your service. So we have established that you will need some computers. When you are building software, you will need computers. But where to get them? What is the best place? One option is platform as a service. For example, Heroku. This is my favorite one. It's, there are many alternatives. AWS has something that tries to come close. It's called Elastic Beanstalk. But all of these services aim to make it easy for software developer to display their software on a public site. So it's usually some integration with development tooling. For example, with Heroku, you just push to a Git server. And Heroku does all the magic with installing dependencies building and redeploying the application with a minimally disruptive manner. There is a similar thing with Elastic Beanstalk. There's command line utility, EB, EB, and you just run EBDeploy. And it's all integrated to the service. So if you are starting up, it's definitely, I would definitely recommend not, unless you have a requirement, I would definitely not recommend setting up your servers, your virtual machines, just use Heroku or whatever. And it will save you quite a lot of time in the beginning. And it's not that costly. But later, like a year later or two years later, you may find out that you have more specialized requirements or that you need more power and it starts becoming costly. So you may think about other options. So what are the other options for running your service? Well, you could go shopping. You could go shopping for a server. I would not really recommend it. There is a lot of things to know about the servers. There is the trips to the data center with the server to set it up. And it's usually not worth it. If you go this route, as I've seen some companies I work for, just always use the server housing and at least don't try to build your own data center. It's rather not worth it. You could rent virtual machines in the cloud or you could use more sophisticated services. If you rent pure virtual machines, they may become quite costly compared to running your own servers. You are paying several times as much. And if you are using the services with higher value added, like the load balancers and so on, they are not as costly. But still, when you combine these services, there is a lot of the system that lives in these interactions. And you will need people who understand the strengths and weaknesses of these services and how to combine all of it together. So for example, this screenshot is taken from Amazon's blog post on recommended architectures to run WordPress. And it's not really something that you would, as a developer, you would start doing out of the blue. There are a lot of things to think about. So if you are in the cloud, either you use virtual machines that are overpriced or you use these higher services, but you need to understand them. And there is hidden complexity. There is a way to rent dedicated servers, physical hardware, provided by several companies, either it's, for example, Hatsnatter, a big one. Or there are multiple local data centers, like in Prague, there are at least four or five, which have reasonable offers in this. And you don't get as many services, although with the small companies, you can usually negotiate, for example, load balancing as a service, but you get really the best price for the raw power. And you can build really a lot on top of service like this. So these are the options. And now I'll be talking about what we did with Twistail. So first, what is Twistail? Twistail is a FinTech company. It's around, already since 2013. We issue MasterCards. We are in two countries, Czech Republic and Poland. We have integration with Apple Pay, Android Pay. And we are moving around a serious amount of money for customers. So how did the infrastructure look like in Twistail case? So in the beginning, these seven or eight years ago, there was a cheap hosting. Yeah, something just to get the service up and running. No customers then, no worries about data, basically. Since then, the company moved to a dedicated server, and quite soon after that, it added a backup server. In the beginning, as I say, there is a lot of business risks that mean that the company can go out of business even if the IT doesn't do any errors. So the company prioritizes to minimize the business risks by spending the engineers' time on actually improving the product and iterating the business quickly. So yeah, we could have lost several days of uptime if the server had failed or we could have lost some data, but it was a risk. And this risk is not as big as you may think. The servers are quite reliable, and there are many factors out of the IT which make this risk look okay. Later, we started to scale up the platform and split the application server and the database server. And from the single application server, we created a Kubernetes cluster mostly to prevent waking us up during the night when there needs to be some maintenance done or when some part of the hardware fails. So this cluster works quite well. And we are now working on a live replication of database to be able to do maintenance on during working hours and not having to take the full system offline as we do when we need to do some upgrades. And during all of this time, we have cloud backups. We use the cloud for durability, and we also use cloud for scaling up and down when we need it. So we have many staging and testing environments for the developers on demand in cloud. We use Amazon, and it's great to use it for things where we don't want to predict the need, how many testing environments will we need in a month or two, and where we are built just by the minute or by the second. It's very easy for the developers, and we don't just want to reinvent the tooling, but for the production, we are very happy with the on-premise service. Every decision has a cost, so what does this cost us? For a long time, only a few engineers could deploy a new version of the application. We were deploying daily or every few days, but it always relied on one of a very small group of engineers because the deployment essentially required admin access to the server. There was a script based on a tool named Fabric, which logged into the server, checked out the latest Git revision which has been tested by CI, and then did the database migrations, restarted some services, and so on.  We had also a few outages which could have been prevented if we ran on some setup with multiple availability zones, but it was only like three times during these last seven years, and we had way more problems which we introduced in the application code than the outages caused by the data center or by the infrastructure. On the other hand, there are some benefits which we gained by this choice. The development is easier. Basically in the beginning, it was the same environment if you used Ubuntu on your development machine, you had pretty much the same environment in production, so it was quite easy to test what would happen if we changed something. We have faster CPUs than are available in the cloud. We have lots of RAM, so we don't have to do some optimizations as soon as we have had to do it if we were paying more for this, and the overall architecture of the application in the beginning was really simple, and also because the dedicated servers are cheaper for the raw power, we are saving like two or maybe three engineer salaries, and these engineering salaries don't go only to the infrastructure maintenance, but also to the creation of developer's tooling, so we have tools like one-click staging environments, things like snapshots of the database in a few seconds, anonymization of the database so we don't risk as much losing the data, and many, many other things. So what is the resolution of the question of the old question if it's better to run software on-premise or in the cloud? We think it's actually an outdated question. We are happy mixing this together. We have dedicated servers for production. We have cloud VMs for supporting services, and for stuff where we need a higher availability, like card transaction authorizations. We are mixing it with software as a service, and in my opinion, this is how you avoid vendor lock-in to be able to actually think about these services or these parts of your stack individually and say that, for example, now Firebase doesn't suit us very well, so we are looking how to replace Firebase, not to look how to replace the entire Google Cloud setup. So now for something completely different. I promised you some tips. So when you actually decide to go this route and use bare-metal service, the first tip, I think the most important one, I would say, I learned by practice, is that there is a technology called KBM. It's not the Linux one. It stands for Keyboard Video Mouse, and it's basically remote access. So if your service supports this, you can configure BIOS remotely if you need to. You can install your operating system, and you save a lot of calls with the support people from the data center, and you save trips to the data center. Just be sure it's integrated on a motherboard. Some cheap servers don't have it, and the attachable KBM is not as good. And the brand servers license it separately. So just talk to your data center if they support it before entering the server. The other tip is to get used to disks filling up much faster than you expect. Buy more disks in advance, and be sure to have three slots for the disks in the servers. It's quite easy to extend the disks if you use LVM in Linux, which stands for Logical Volume Manager. And you just add new disks, and the software like the database, which is running on top of them, doesn't see anything only that there is more free space. So just be ready, forget that you will need to add some more storage. The third tip is that virtualization, like virtual machines or even containers, can really wait until you have multiple teams that need to somehow share these servers. And we were quite happy with the monolith. Even in the Kubernetes, the application is still based on the monolith. And we can deploy it 10 times a day without downtime. And this is something which really works for us. So if you introduce new technology like virtual machines on your bare metal servers, or if you split your stick to microservices, just be sure what you get as a benefit. We obviously use virtual machines in the cloud, but we don't use them at all on our bare metal servers. Fourth tip, if you manage like three or more servers, it's time to start looking at unattended installation, which means you write a short script that contains server name, IP addresses, and so on. What packages you need to install, probably some SSHTs. And then you boot from an installation ISO image, which contains this script and the server installs all by itself. You don't want to spend time waiting for servers booting up and installing them, especially if you need to do it several times. There is Red Hat Kickstart, which does it, Debian has a precede, or it can be scripted with a plain script that's not that hard, and the Debian precede is not as good as the Red Hat to link. If you would run more than 20 servers, there are services to have a look at, which allow you to manage these servers. There's Foreman, Ubuntu has metal as a service, but I don't have personal experience with them so far. So before we move to the questions, there is a last tip. If you like what we do, if you like what you see, if you would like to be a part of the company that simplifies payment, moves real money, but uses bleeding edge technology and runs in Python, then hit me up, and we are hiring both DevOps people and developers. So thank you for your attention, and now it's time for answering some questions. Just one, Kamin. Do you have entry-level positions open for DevOps? For DevOps, I think we currently don't have an entry-level position, but for development, we have. But definitely hit me up. I'll be happy to have a call with you, and I think we can figure something out.


From around the globe, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next OnAir 20. Hello, and welcome to theCUBE's coverage, virtual coverage of Google Next OnAir. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We're here in Palo Alto, California for our remote interviews, part of our quarantine crew, getting all the stories that matter, Google Next OnAir continues event through the summer. We're calling it the summer of cloud. We've got two great guests here, Neil Potty, general manager and vice president of cloud security at Google Cloud and Orion Hindawi, co-founder and CEO of TANIUM. Gentlemen, thank you for coming on today. Appreciate it. Great event you guys have on the continue. I'll call it the summer of cloud. It's a lot of events that Google's having so that you guys on your team are doing a great job. But there's some hard news. You guys are announcing an expanded partnership together. So Neil, tell us what is the news today? Hey John, first of all, great to see you again. Love being on theCUBE anytime and it's my honor to actually share the stage this time around with Ryan and the TANIUM team. So essentially what we're announcing today is the fact that as most of you know, especially in the new normal with the distributed workforce and potentially it being the safer normal down the road, it presents an unprecedented opportunity I think in our opinion that we can use this to accelerate potentially safer posture that otherwise would have taken years to build into the enterprise ecosystem that we could now bring forward in potentially in the year 2020 or 2021. So the primary announcement is based on the fact that TANIUM's core enterprise offering and Google Cloud's Chronicle offering are coming together to build a full stack offering for endpoint detection and response. So that customers can have an end to end offering that's both powerful and easy to use all the way from the detection, response, remediation and analytics all built together into one seamless, easy to consume offering for the global enterprise and being delivered in such a way that it can take into account organizations of thousands of employees or hundreds of thousands of employees, all by the same cloud native solution. All right, talk about why you're excited about this deal. What's different about it? Obviously there's a relationship here. What's so exciting about this story? Yeah, I think, you know, Ryan should comment as well, but look, I think the key thing that we sort of partnered on initially was a customer driven, you know, technology centric integrations where, you know, we went deep from a Chronicle perspective to ensure native integration between TiniM's products to send signals out of the box as well as curated, enhanced and reached so that they could be actionable responses taken by, you know, TiniM's solutions as well on behalf of security analysts as part of our journey to kind of reinvent the sock of the future, right? And so essentially it's been a deliberate effort by both teams to not provide incremental integrations but something that offers a reimagined safety posture, especially that's enhanced, I would say, or amplified in a world where pretty much every employee is essentially a threat vector now, but otherwise it was not the case when they were working in a normal enterprise office. All right, what's your take on this? Obviously, what's different? Obviously new big news. Sure, yeah. I mean, if you look at why we decided that Google would have been the perfect partner for us, we have very large enterprises. We work with about 70 of the Fortune 100, the US DOD, a lot of these very large environments and many of them were coming to us and telling us two things. The first one was the amount of data that they were generating that they needed to be able to process and analyze and be able to find insight from was going exponentially up. And the second one was in the new kind of post COVID world, the amount of work from home risk that they were seeing and the kind of perfection they needed to achieve on finding threats quickly and neutralizing them was actually also going up. And so between those two things, we started really looking for a partner that we could accelerate with to provide our customers with true world-class data analytics, retention, being able to visualize that data and then being able to act on that data through Tainium and I think that the partnership that we've struck with Google and the work we've done with them to make this seamless for our customers to make it scale really well even for the largest managed networks is something we're really proud of. What's the history between Chronicle and Tainium? What's the, how far back does it go and how would you guys categorize this time and point in time in terms of evolution of that partnership? So maybe I'll take a stab, Sunil and then you can take one as well. You know, we've been working with Chronicle now for over a year and we've got customers who kind of pointed us in this direction, which is how we love to start partnerships. We had some customers who had a lot of faith that Google was going to be able to crack this nut and honestly, many of our customers had been really struggling with this with their current vendors at the time for years and we're really looking for Google because Google was the company that they saw as having the most credibility with massive, massive data sets. What we got surprised by actually was that there were a bunch of different legs of the stool that we could work with Google on. So not only data retention with Chronicle but things like Zero Trust, which I think many people know Google actually invented the concept of when we start thinking about thin client management. So we actually found that there's a really expansive partnership here and what we're doing with Chronicle I think is the first kind of instantiation of that. But we expect that over the next even years we've got a lot of room to run with Google to really secure and help our customers. Sunil, talk about the wave that you're riding on right now because obviously the reality is, I won't use the term new normal, but the new reality is COVID has forced everyone to look at basically an unexpected disruption that no one saw coming. Yeah, we can prepare for disasters and floods and hurricanes and whatnot, but this is unforeseen, everybody working at home.  So the access methods is everything. It's mobile, home, home is the new office. It's not just connect to an access point and or, my son's gaming, my daughter's watching Netflix. I'm trying to do some video conferencing and it's a mix of consumer business all happening. This is a complex environment now. What does this mean, this relation? How does this connect the dots? Can you expand on that? Yeah, I mean, I think I hinted on this a little bit at the beginning, John, is that we think, this is an unprecedented opportunity to help accelerate digital transformation that otherwise would have taken a few years for many enterprises to get to that can now be done intentionally in months and for some customers, maybe even in weeks. And some examples of that that we've seen are that look, if you just take Google as an company to Orion's point, look, we invested many years worth of technology and IP that now we're slowly bringing out in the form of beyond-corp product sets, but essentially of the fact that, look, we should treat every employee as if they were a remote worker. We don't trust the network. We basically break transit of properties, which was one of the foundational issues with security in the enterprise, where I trust a network and the network is trusted by a desktop. And then if you penetrate one, you can penetrate everything else in the chain. And so when COVID hit, we went from essentially pretty much, you know, 100,000 plus employees working in distributed headquarters, but within the Google environment to working from home within a week later, but retained the same sort of like, not productivity levels just, but actually the same safety levels that were much strong. And so in many cases, what we are now seeing that is that even though enterprises have come forward and said, look, yeah, we have some patchwork solutions just because this is a major change for us. Now that we are in it for not just three months or six months, but potentially a longer period of time, why not take the opportunity to re-platform our security environments so that we can actually be in a better state when we actually exit out of this environment, where we might actually never go back full-time, but it can actually be a hybrid environment. So that's part of the reason why I think we're so jazzed about the partnership is that these are two examples of products coming together to help re-platform at least one sets of traditional, if I can call it weak links in the security ecosystem that can now be sort of like re-platform. I was doing an interview actually last week and I was kind of riffing on this idea. This is one big IoT experiment. I mean, people are devices here. I mean, everyone's connected, but it's all remote. It's changed the patterns of work and traffic and all kinds of kind of paradigms, but this brings up the issue of, you know, the customer challenge. Everyone's going to look at their environment saying, look, we now know the benefit of cloud, it's clear, but I got to rethink the projects that are on the table and get rid of the ones that aren't going to be relevant to where the world has shifted. It's not even a question of digital trends. It's like, okay, what am I doubling down on and what am I going to eliminate from the picture? So I got to ask you guys, if you guys can comment, if I'm a customer, that's what's going through my head. I got to survive, reinvent the foundation and come out with a growth strategy with a workforce, workplace, workloads and workflows that are completely different. What's in it for me? What does this mean to me, this partnership? So how do you help me? What's in it for me? So I might take a stab at that. You know, I think that a lot of our customers, if we look at where they were at the beginning of the year, they'd been building on a pretty creaky foundation and just adding more and more layers to it. So, you know, in the security side, many of our customers have 20 or 30 or 50 different tools and many of them are there because they were there yesterday. They're not actually, if you were going to zero base budget the way you were going to do security, they wouldn't be the tools you'd choose. And the interesting thing about this whole work from home transition is it is effectively a zero base budget for security because a lot of the tools just basically don't work. So you think about a lot of the network tools and when everybody's working from home, you don't own the network. You think about a lot of even the endpoint tools that assumed that devices would be behind that network perimeter and now just don't work over the internet. And so when we look at our customers, they're realizing they have to re-platform their security model anyway. And what they're doing is they're now picking again. And what they get to do is they get to pick the platforms that they now trust in 2020 with the work from home environment as it is. And I think what it gives you as a customer is a huge simplification of your environment. I mean, we talk to people every day who were used to operating those 20 or 30, 50 tools and they were spending 90% of their energy just operating those tools, not actually improving security. And they were falling behind. And if you look at what they're able to do now they actually can go back to a starting point where they think about what is the real threat I'm facing? What are the real platforms I should be choosing today? And we're actually seeing huge increases in our customer kind of adoption of our platform because that resistance to change has been removed. People can't resist change. Any more change has come. And as a result of that they get to choose what they would like now. That's a huge point. I want to just double down on that and redirect and then we'll go to Neil in his commentary. But I think you just hit the nail on the head. We're seeing the same kind of commentary. You said it really eloquently. But the thing is is that, okay, let's just, if you believe what you just said, which I do, going to zero base budgeting decisions, fresh look at everything. The problem is people are looking at the decisions and comparing what the bells and whistles were from the tools. So how do you advise customers to rethink like, okay, if it's a fresh look, it's a fresh look. It's not like, okay, the way we did it before. So a lot of times when you're evaluating products, the group gets to go and say, does it have this bell or this whistle? Cause that's the way we did it before. So you got to kind of separate out this idea of you're going to go that direction. It's a full fresh look. So how are customers doing that? Cause that's really difficult. It's a super relevant question for today's world because I think you're absolutely right. If you talk to the person who operated the compliance tool in a big bank and you ask them what do you need from that tool? They very quickly get to things that if you just take the question, which is I need to do compliance for the bank. What do I need to do compliance effectively? And you look at the answer that they give you, which is I need this checkbox here. I need this button here. I need this kind of minutia that I'm used to to be consistent with what I've been used to for the last 10 years. Those two things are not the same. And what we've really been encouraging our customers to do is take a look back at your requirements. So you are processing credit cards. You need to be PCI regulated. You need to be able to answer to your vendors how many copies of their software you're using. You need to be able to find an attacker who's moving around your environment and do that as quickly as possible. And then let's build from there what capabilities you need. And let's forget about whether the color scheme of the logo at the top of the report is the same. Let's talk about the core capabilities. And it's a very freeing conversation actually because what a lot of people start realizing is they've been maintaining the status quo for reasons that actually have nothing to do with efficacy. They have to do with comfort. And the curse and the beauty of the last six months is no one's comfortable. So I don't care how comfortable you are with your tools. No one I know is comfortable today. And what it's giving us is an opportunity to look past the old school comfort and think about how do we transition to the future? And I think it's actually gonna galvanize a lot of positive change. You know, I was saying this before we went on air but I don't think anybody wished that COVID was the way that we would end up in a position where people have the appetite for change. But if there's a silver lining in the situation, that's it. And I really think that CIOs and CEOs and CFOs and CSOs and really across the board need to take advantage of the fact that there's a discontinuity here that allows us to throw out the old and bring in things that are much more effective. So Neil, that's a great tee-up for you because what he's saying, basically saying is if you don't focus on the check boxes because there was reasons why and they'll give you, there's a long list, probably RFPs in the same way. We check in the boxes. Okay, throw that out. And then you can, by the way, you can innovate on those check boxes differently but still achieve the same outcome, I get that. But for Google Cloud, you guys have a great network. It's well known in the industry, Google's got a phenomenal network hence powering Android and all the servers, we know that. With a Cloud player, this is a great opportunity for you guys to be a fresh candidate for this kind of change. How are you guys talking about this internally? Because this really is, the goalposts have been moved and in favor of who can deliver. I think as both of you have been talking about it, I think the way I will maybe color this is, when consumers got to a safer posture with the advent of iPhone, right? Even though it was much more productive, delightful and there's a bunch of other things, ultimately though, if anything, things became safer when you actually did computing on a phone just because it was an opinionated stack. Ultimately we believe whether you come to Cloud completely or you consume some stacks, the more opinionated they are, that's ultimately the only way to reduce these moving parts that expose us to security issues. And that principle is applied by the way in reliability too, right? I mean, you have to simplify stuff for things to actually work at six nines and so forth. The same things apply in security. So imagine a world where every employee now is sitting at home, maybe two years from now they come back, they work in the Starbucks, but they had a virtual Chromebook experience. Because a physical Chromebook, of course, it's our goal to kind of get that out there because on one hand we have the cloud which is a full stack opinionated offering but there's various elements of computing still dispersed in the environment. And you were talking about IoT, eventually we'll get there, but just look at the employee's laptop or productivity station and imagine the construct of a virtual Chromebook off. And that's an opinionated stack and that's essentially a variant of what the joint offering between the two companies is essentially sort of aspiring to is to provide that level of clarity and opinionation that actually genuinely solves for some foundational security issues. And in doing so, you now have, hey, essentially an opinionated stack close to the user, the enterprise user is an opinionated stack via mobile phones close to the consumer user and for all enterprises from a computing side, there's an opinionated stack whether it be Google or some of the other public apps, right? And ultimately I think the world will move into these few sets of these opinionated stacks at various points of control. And at least this particular partnership is around making the first step towards potentially one of those opinionated stacks a lot of virtual Chromebook like experience for the enterprise use. And I think this is the beginning of the wave of the reality that the edge of the network, whatever you want to call it and you see this with endpoint detection, right? I mean, everything's an endpoint now.  So zero trust is a big part of it, Google Cloud and this relationship kind of brings that to the next level. How does that, how does zero trust and attenu mission intersect here?  Yeah, I think and we'll hopefully, you know, talk more about it later in the year as well as we kind of come up with more integrations. But at the high level, I think the way to think about this would be imagine that device as you were talking about having an ability to actually send a strong set of signals, not just for detection and response, but for actually enforcing, you know, authentication and authorization as well. Because ultimately identity needs to intersect with the current stack that we currently have between the two companies. And so when identity of the user, identity of the device, identity of, you know, the context in which, you know, someone actually allows a user to access an application. These are all net new things that need to be brought into the solution to kind of then provide both a, you know, not just a safe way to kind of provide an, you know, an endpoint detection and response kind of opinionist act, but to also essentially make that part of an Uber zero trust offering that a customer can consume to ensure that look, you know, ultimately look, it doesn't really matter whether the employees at home, they're using their own laptop, they're at Starbucks, they can come back to work, but ultimately they have this virtualized sort of security ring that protects and always constantly authorizes, authenticates and provides a bunch of this security operations capabilities behind us. So anyway, so the simple answer is, you know, once we intersect identity and a slew of beyond core capabilities into the current offering, that's how the next step towards a more formidable zero trust offering falls. Okay, Oryan, I'd love to get your thoughts, but if you both can answer this question, that'd be great, I'd love to get your thoughts, little gamification here. If you had to put the headline out on this news, not the one on the press release, that's like perfectly written. Like, I mean bumper sticker, what's the, what is the real meaning of this relationship in this news? If you had to put a headline out there, think Washington, think New York post style maybe, or, you know, something that can describe the news. I mean, I will admit, I'm not known for being good soundbites, so I'll give you the one sentence and you can help me pair it down, but I mean really what it is, is I think Tanium's got the highest fidelity endpoint visibility and control out there, and I think Google's got the best data storage analytics, retention, cross referencing we've ever seen. And when you combine those two things, it's incredibly powerful for our enterprise users, and we've already seen customers where it's been transformative. You can help me pair it down. That's fine, you know, point protection, solid. I think it's a much more descriptive nature, frankly, but I think my logical tagline that I just keep, you know, sort of like the soundbite that I keep referring to is, look, you know, the world needs a virtual Chromebook to really feel safe at an endpoint level. And this is sort of like the first instantiation of that core stack that can, you know, at least get enterprise to start on that, Jen. You know, I think you guys run something really big here, and one of my personal observations is, one is the complexity of the telemetry coming in. I can see how you would go in there and connecting the dots between Google's back end and your stuff coming together. You need to have that high powered energy from the resource, but also there's a human element.  They're spear fished, they're targeted social engineering, so as people come home and there's now multiple access points, there's more surface area. So every single endpoint needs to be protected. I think people are kind of in the normal world, the outside of the tech industry saying, oh, I get it now. We're not really protected. And this is not just sensor networks or, you know, OT technology, you know, OT, it's really humans. This is really where it's going, isn't it guys? I'll chime in, and then maybe around you should take it there. Look, I think we do have a foundational principle here which says, look, as demonstrated in a post COVID world, but your point, John, of whether it be IoT, just to distribute computing in general, continues to expand, we should just assume that the surface area for security issues only expands, right? And rather than trying to kind of do a whack-a-mole of the surface area, what if you could take a foundational approach that actually breaks the relationship between expanded surface area means expanded exposure to the test? And so essentially the same approach that we took with Zero Trust, which is, look, we just know we're going to get broken into. So just don't assume that your network is not safe, but still have a secure posture, right? How did that come to be? I think if you can just apply that more generally into this construct of a distributed enterprise, which says, look, your surface area is going to keep going, but let's break that correlation between surface area to that's by a more foundational construct that says, look, doesn't matter if you're, so today, as you said, this is your device, tomorrow it could be your son's laptop that you used to actually log into your network and so forth, but ultimately though, it doesn't matter who you are, where you're accessing it from, what device you're using or what network you're using or which location, the safety posture is still very strong. That's awesome. Yeah, I will just add, you're absolutely right. I mean, if you look at a customer I'm thinking about today, and I just heard this from their CIO a couple of days ago, but they have one and a half million things they're protecting today. They expect to have over 150 million in five years. And so you look at containerization, cloud, mobility, all the work from home stuff, it's just going to make this a more and more complex, highly variant problem. We need to expect that. And I think a lot of people are very frustrated that at the time that expansion is happening, the network essentially did become a control point you couldn't trust anymore. So the thesis that Google had around zero trust actually became our entire world for most enterprises. When you look at that, we do owe our customers quantum jumps in capability or they're just not going to catch up. And I think that the theoretical approach that we're taking here between Google and Taneum lets our customers take one of those quantum jumps where they're going to be seeing a lot more, they're going to be able to trust it a lot more. They're going to be able to allow devices to have access to things based on their current state and based on believing that we can extrapolate whether there's security on that device accurately. And that's something that I think a lot of customers have just never been able to do before. And frankly, I think it takes companies like this to pair up and really invest in joining their technologies to be able to get that fabric that will get our customers materially forward. And I'll just say one other thing. Many of our customers up to literally like three or four months ago were in a position where they were spending 60 or 70% of their security budgets on network. There's nowhere to spend that money today that's actually productive. It gives them the ability to refactor what they're doing and the obligation to do it. Because if they don't do it, I think is, I was describing with the amount of increased assets, the amount of complexity, the lack of network control. If they don't do it looking at the amount of threat our customers are facing today, they're going to be underwater really quickly. And so, I'm proud that we get to get together here and give them a big step forward. And I really, I think there's an obligation on our industry not to try and rewarm the same stuff we've been doing for the last 20 years and try and serve it to our customers again, but to really rethink the approach because it is a different world. So now you've been involved in a very, a lot of entrepreneurial ventures. You've been on these waves that were misunderstood and then became understood. This is what we're getting at here. And what he's saying is essentially new expectations. We're going to drive the experience and then ultimately drive the demand and people will either be out of business or in business. If you're a supplier, I'll give you the final word. You guys are in good position. I would say that, especially in security John, more so than maybe any other infrastructure space that I've been involved in. Most products have been built to solve problems with other products. And as Orion just briefly pointed out, I think this opportunity gives enterprises clarity and vendors clarity that, look, you really have to take a foundationally original approach to solve problems that can get customers to, if I can call it a stuff function change in their current safety posture. And so that's really the core essence of the partnership is to sort of rather than worrying about solving problems with other products and so forth, is to use this opportunity, like I said, to have an opinionated view to fundamentally change the security posture of the endpoint once and for all. Well gentlemen, congratulations on a great partnership, expanded partnership. Again, the world has changed. I love this fresh look. I think that's totally right on the money. New reality, we're here. Thanks for taking the time to remote in from Seattle and in the Bay Area. So it's great to see you again at Google Cloud. Thanks for coming in. Alright, nice to meet you and good luck with everything. Thank you. Thank you. Great to meet you. Okay, this is the Cube is coverage, Cube virtual coverage of Google on air next 2020. It's all virtual, virtualization has come in and don't trust the network. You know, you got to watch those end points here with Google and any great partnership news. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Thanks for watching.


Aloha, and welcome to Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We're a show that focuses on business success stories in Hawaii, broadcasting out of downtown studios of Think Tech Hawaii in Hololulu, Hawaii. Our success stories in Hawaii are many, they're plentiful. We've got a lot of successful individuals, and we have individuals that assist companies in staying out of trouble and being successful in the long run. We've got a recurring guest today, Attorney Steve Pangry. He's going to be spending a little bit of time with us today talking about general topics. It's my quarterly commentary. He's got a very interesting background, not only in the legal field, but also as a real estate broker and agent and in a lot of international experience. Steve, welcome back to the show. Thanks, Reg. It's always my pleasure. It's always a pleasure to have you here. Last time you were here, we talked a little bit about some of the issues in foreign bank accounting and reporting and a lot of changes that have been happening over the years. A lot of people don't realize how big and important that is and what the penalties might be. We've got people that are getting close to the deadline of filing their returns. We're about a month out from that. Any updates or changes you wanted to let us know about? There's not any specific changes with the F-bar, which is the reporting of foreign bank accounts. That, every taxpayer on their 1040 schedule B, Section 3, has to check whether or not they have an interest in a foreign financial bank account or business. You have to check no or yes, and their accountant, of course, should be walking. I've got a question for you. Every year, you're required to say yes or no, whether you've got access or you own or whatever a foreign bank account. I've seen a lot of clients not even answer that. They just skip right over it. What's the implications of that? That's an audit trigger, potentially. The returns, as you know, when they first file, they go through a computerized scanning, and it's triggered to recognize certain omissions, and that very well could trigger an audit if someone did not answer the question whether or not they had a foreign bank account. If they do have a foreign bank account, they have to report that? That's correct. If you have the equivalent of US $10,000 or more in that bank account at any one time during the year, I mean, you may have 20,000 at one time and 2,000 at the end of the year, but you have to report that bank account, the bank, the overseas bank, the account number, and the highest balance during the year. There's no penalty. I mean, there's no additional tax as long as the income, if you have interest income, for example, is reported. But there is a very high penalty ranging anywhere from $10,000 up to $500,000 for not reporting the foreign bank account. Yeah, and it's a fairly simple process. As a matter of fact, you used to have to go online and do this all as a separate. Some of the tax programs now are actually incorporating that foreign bank account reporting sheet or form right in the tax software. So it's not that difficult to do anymore. That's true, and you actually have to file it separately. It's a form 114, which is what you're talking about, but it does have to be filed online separately with FinCEN, which is the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network or the Department of Treasury. But they have redone the form, and it's not that difficult. I did mine, for example, a couple weeks ago, and it wasn't that difficult. Well, and a lot of times I think the form will have the instructions on where you need to mail it separately. There's no excuse not to do it. It's a fairly simple process, and if you get caught not doing it, there could be some pretty significant fines. I actually am representing a client now who's under federal grand jury investigation for failing to report two offshore bank accounts with well over a couple of million dollars in those accounts. Ouch. Yeah, he's in potentially some serious trouble, but it's a situation that could be handled. The general takeaway from all of this that people need to understand is that the IRS has upgraded its enforcement priority to foreign income and foreign offshore bank accounts but income that's not being reported. So they're definitely looking for this. They are, and they're starting to get more foreign banks cooperating with some disclosures, aren't they? That's correct. A term called FACTA, which is Foreign Account Tax Compliance Agreement, but basically the IRS has gone around the world to every single bank and all of its hundreds of branches and required these banks to report to the IRS any account holder that it's a U.S. citizen or has a green card as a U.S. taxpayer, if you will. And probably over 200, 250 banks around the world now are reporting to the IRS. And if any people have a foreign bank account or they live or do business in foreign countries, they're finding that their banks that they're dealing with are bringing them in and asking for a lot of specific information. And sometimes closing their accounts, say, we don't want to deal with U.S. citizens. Well, if you've got one of these foreign bank accounts and you haven't been caught yet, consider yourself lucky because it looks like they're tightening things up. That's correct. Very good. Well, let's move on to another very taxing topic, the rail. Yeah, that's a non-again-off-again topic. I'm sure people are starting to get tired of it. But we've had some recent discussions recently that you brought up about in audit. What's your thoughts? What are you thinking about in audit? From my point of view, as a financial crimes defense attorney, it's inconceivable that the legislation that was passed did not call for a forensic audit. A forensic audit is a audit that specifically looks for fraud. And it's very detailed and very specific, as you were explaining to me. There's a tremendous amount of money that's been spent on the rail and is being requested and proposed to be spent in the future. And to allow that kind of funding from the taxpayers without some type of accountability is mind-boggling. I mean, it's really absolutely... Well, especially when they keep changing their forecasts. It's like every few weeks, every month, they have to make revisions. And these are not small revisions. These are significant dollars. And wherever you see this frequency in changing the costs involved in a project over and over and over again, you can't help but suspect that there's something not right in the process. Well, that's certainly by suspicion, and I think that's shared by many people. I mean, people have been asking a lot. In the legislature last year, I remember there was a big boo-ha-ha when the mayor came asking for money and the state legislature even said, well, show us why you need it or show us how you've been spending it. And Mayor Caldwell didn't do it. Well, he didn't or he couldn't. Well, I don't know about that. But maybe you might want to explain the difference between a general audit and a forensic audit. Well, you know, from my experience and having worked in the audit world for probably about eight years, you know, and I would assume that the rail has a similar requirement is that a financial statement audit is that they look at the financial results of whatever that entity or project or company, business, government agency is. And the auditors will bless whether or not it's reasonably stated according to some generally accepted accounting practices they use, generally accepted auditing standards. It's a very specific type of process. It's got materiality issues and they do internal control checks to make sure that the process of balancing and reconciling and approvals are all in place and functional.  Now, when you start getting into different types of audits, one of which would be a forensic audit, then you're starting to look at fraud. And there can be fraud at almost every level of an organization potentially. I mean, are we talking about a fraud of wasting paper clips for school operations or are we talking about approving a $5 million contract without a competitive bidding requirement? So there's a whole range of different types of fraud that can happen. You need to have a very specific scope in what you're looking for in a forensic audit. And it's primarily looking, as you mentioned, actual fraud. And we have to define what that means. Well, how about change orders, for example, as an example in a construction business? It's an area that is usually strife with fraudulent type activities. And one of the most common examples is that they have a change order requirement that you can make a change to a contract for no more than, say, $250,000. If you've got a million dollar change, it has to happen. What you do is you just have five change orders for $200,000 a piece and bang, you can get it done without all the proper approvals or without legislative action on it. And so change orders is always an area that people need to look at if they're looking for fraud. And it's pretty common to find something there. I'm not saying that there is any there. But that would be an area that you'd want to look at. But even then, you'd want to scope it down and define exactly what it is that you're looking for. And if you do find it, then they have to report it and let you know what their findings are of that particular step. There are other types of audits, one of which I thought might be a good one to explore with the rail is an efficiency audit. Looking to see, there might be fraud and you might detect fraud going through an efficiency audit. But the primary intent of the efficiency audit is to try to determine whether or not things are being done in the most efficient way. Is it being planned properly? Is it being executed properly? Are all the stakeholders being involved in the process? We were talking a little bit earlier about having the pillars of the rail all set up and having the power requirements to run the rail and then having the stations that are big power requirements and users. And having all of this planned and construction beginning and work already being done. And then they decide to bring Hawaiian Electric into the mix and say, oh, does this make sense? And of course, Hawaiian Electric is going to say, well, we're kind of late to the game here. We can provide power over there, but not over here. And now all of a sudden, they've got to go back and redo things. That's not efficient. Anybody can understand that. Well, but that's the kind of things you would be looking for an efficiency audit is just poor management decisions or decisions that are being made out of sequence. What if we stopped the rail? What are the consequences? And is it a case of throwing good money after bad? Or is it a case of just prudently cutting your losses and diverting the funds to more productive uses? You know, that's a very interesting question and one that might take a few minutes to answer, maybe even longer, but we have to go on break right now. So let's, we'll leave everybody in suspense about stopping the rail. But this is business in Hawaii. We broadcast every Thursday from 2 to 2.30. We're going to go on a short break and we're going to come right back right now to just in about 60 seconds to discuss what happens if we shut down the rail. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. Hello, I'm Helen Dora Hayden, the host of Voice of the Veteran, seen here live every Thursday afternoon at 1 p.m. on Think Tech Hawaii. As a fellow veteran and veteran's advocate with over 23 years experience serving veterans, active duty, and family members, I hope to educate everyone on benefits and accessibility services by inviting professionals in the field to appear on the show. In addition, I hope to plan on inviting guest veterans to talk about their concerns and possibly offer solutions. As we navigate and work together through issues, we can all benefit. Please join me every Thursday at 1 p.m. for the Voice of the Veteran, Aloha. Guys, don't forget to check me out right here at the Prince of Investing. I'm your host, Prince Dykes, each and every Tuesdays at 11 a.m. Hawaii time. I'm going to be right here. Stop by here from some of the best investment minds across the globe. And real estate, finances, stocks, hedge funds, managers, all that great stuff. Thank you. Welcome back. This is Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. My guest today is Steve Penguin, an attorney and commercial broker. We were just talking a little bit about the rail, and the question was raised. Can we stop it? I think that was the question. And the short answer is, of course we can. We can have control over our own destiny here. There's nobody dictating to us what we can and cannot do. There are issues, though, about how much of that federal funding would have to be repaid. Now, I would be very interested to see that if we did shut down the rail, what would be the cost of shutting it down and not having any future operating costs? And what would it cost to go ahead and finish and continuing operating it? There's very little doubt in my mind that if we shut it down, and even if we had to pay back the feds, a couple billion dollars, that shutting it down and not spending any more of our money, and even if we had to pay another two billion over the next five or ten years, that's going to be less costly than trying to fix the rail for an unknown completion cost and operating it at a loss of half a billion a year. To me, I think it'd be interesting to see how much it's really going to save us by just shutting it down. Nobody's willing to do that study. Well, just from my layman's point of view, I'm not too concerned about paying the federal government back, because that could certainly be negotiated. Spoken like an attorney. But I think it's true, you know, it's either the amount would be reduced or you can pay it back over 20 years or something like that, so that's free money, basically. The other thing is, I think it has to be taken into account, how much money of this four or five billion dollars that's already been spent has already gone into the economy. You know, there's been a tremendous amount of jobs created by the rail, and a lot of people have been working, and a lot of companies have been making money, not just in the physical, concrete part of the rail, but all the ancillary businesses throughout. So those types of benefits that have already been received, I think, have to be taken into account when you're talking about how much is it going to cost to shut it down. And those might even continue even after we shut it, even if we don't shut it down, those benefits will continue, but we can divert the money into other things. Well, that's my pet project. I think that the, frankly, that kind of money, the four or five billion dollars, if you think about what it could be used for in this city, in Honolulu, to build the roads. Other than rail, right? No, other than rail. There's a lot of other projects. There's a lot of other projects, infrastructure projects, homeless shelters, hospitals, transportation. Wait, wait, wait, wait, these are all going to benefit people. Oh. Is that what we want to do? Well, they might not benefit a few specific interests that are benefiting greatly from the rail. You know, my pet peeve is about the roads and the condition of the roads. In September 5th, the Pacific Businesses reported a study saying that Hawaii was the worst, number one worst state in the union for the condition of the roads and other infrastructure. And that costs people millions every year in auto repairs and physical injuries that, you know, don't get statistically reportedly. It really tracks that. Exactly. Exactly. So, it's really a matter of priorities. You know, the city seems to be able to think they could find billions of dollars to build the rail, but they can't find 100,000 or 200,000 or a million dollars to build the roads and take care of some projects for the people. Yeah, and that's something that most of us have to deal with every day, even when you're living out in Hawaii, Kai, or Kanoi, or Kailua, and you don't have all the benefits of the rail, you still have to deal with these inferior infrastructure. That's right. You know, and I think you'd find a lot of people very interested in diverting some of that money. Well, I think certainly the Outer Islands have a right to be upset about the increase in the transient accommodation tax or the TAT. There's no logical, rational reason why the Outer Island folks should be paying, you know, the businesses should be paying the extra tax. And I think you'll find most of the people and the elected official on those Neighbor Islands in total agreement with you. Didn't seem to help in the state legislature. Well, there wasn't enough of them. Maybe we need to get more Neighbor Island representation here on Hawaii, on Oahu, so we can't always dictate what goes on out there. I want to ask you a question. I know you're on the National Small Business Association Board, and you just came back from Washington, D.C., from several big meetings and so on, and you have some thoughts that you were telling me about, about regulatory measures that are being taken. You know, it was a very interesting meeting. I was there for about a week. I was the SBA, the Small Business Administration's Regulatory Fairness Board hearing, and I'm the chair of the Ninth Region, which is the Western United States. I got to represent this region. We made some reports. We did some neat stuff. I was able to communicate directly with some of the different agency heads that actually sit on the cabinet with the president, OSHA, Department of Labor, CSM. There was a lot of representation there that we had a good dialogue going. We found out, and we already knew this, President Trump had announced that he's very focused on reducing rules and regulations that have a negative impact on mostly small business, and we had been told that there's over 300 of those rules and regulations already identified, and so we're trying to chip away at that and try to make them a little bit more logical and less strenuous for small businesses to be in compliance with. Are these federal rules now? Does it apply to the state? Yep, all federal. We do have a state agency here that's the Hawaii Small Business Regulatory View Board that does something similar in Hawaii, and I work closely with them, and together we're able to address both state and federal rules and regulations. Some of them just need to be tweaked a little bit. Some of them need to be made consistent with each other because sometimes OSHA and DOL and they have inconsistent, similar type rules to achieve similar results, but different ways to stay in compliance, and it gets very confusing. And multiple forms for different agencies and that type of thing. So, you know, we've got 300 plus, we're trying to add to that. Adding to that list is very simple.  And so it's a simple process. Anybody want to have any of that information, let me know. I'll be happy to send it out. Just drop me a line at regitredgebaker.com, and I'll send a form and work with you to get it done. But part of the discussion that we had in D.C. while I was here was not only the regulatory form, but also tax reform, which is kind of overlapping with the regulatory issues, and then also infrastructure projects, you know. And, you know, although the rail we were just talking about is a big infrastructure project, there are a lot of smaller infrastructure projects that might even be more beneficial that we could get funding for here as well. And they're looking to do this across the country. So, if we do lose any employment related to the rail, there's plenty of opportunity for full employment in other areas. So, you know, one of the arguments I heard about the rails that keeps everybody busy for the next five or 10 years, which is good for the economy, can't argue with that. But there are other ways to keep them busy that make more sense. Other construction generally related projects, right? Yep. We were talking earlier also about DECA. Yes. You know, the DREAM Act and the pros and the cons. Well, you know, the whole immigration issue is kind of a double-edged sword. I can certainly understand the desire for border security. But, you know, for example, NAFTA and DECA falls kind of in that same category. But, you know, we've relied on talent from across our borders for a long time. And some of this talent is very talented. You know, our economy depends on them. Hardworking, tax-paying people should be allowed to stay. And I think when we're looking at unemployment in the two to three percent range, that by definition is full employment. We can't take on more infrastructure work as a country, which the president is wanting to do. But at the same time, reduce our workforce because we won't have anybody to build and do the infrastructure. And so it doesn't quite make sense to me. But I think what he's done with the DECA is to push it over to Congress and say, hey, this is broken. Let's take a look at it and see what we can do to fix it. And we've got about six months to do it. Right. But my specific argument for approving the DREAM Act or making it permanent, if you will, is that if you take a look at the president's recent immigration new set of criteria for immigrants, they want to speak English. They want to be younger. They want to be self-reliant. They want these people to be educated. They don't want them to come into this country and be on public services and that type of thing. Well, if you look at the roughly 800 million young folks that are within the DREAM Act criteria, they fit that profile. Why in the world would we want, as you say, to eliminate them from our country? And they're already here. Exactly. And they're working. They're paying taxes. I think if you pulled and I don't know how many of them are working or how many of them are still in school or what the mix is, but you can't take 800,000 people and just pull them out of the workforce. There's got to be a way to keep them in there, particularly if you want to keep everybody fully employed with these infrastructure projects and other options. And so I'm just hoping that Congress will decide to get a little bit more cooperative and finally push something through that's going to be workable. What seems to be a bipartisan issue? Hopefully, this could be either a win-win or a lose-lose. So hopefully they're going to be smart enough to make it a win-win. If you don't mind, I wanted to interject a thought I've been having about the disaster and the reconstruction that's going to be necessary from Hurricane Harvey, Hurricane Irma, Hurricane Marie, Maria that's gone through and decimated the southeastern part of the United States, the southwestern part of the United States, and of course all throughout the Caribbean and Puerto Rico and even Cuba. But the thought I've had is that there is money available. You listen to the politicians talk about, are we going to get all this money to do disaster relief and all that kind of stuff. The fact of the matter is the money is in the federal government. It has the money available. It's just a shift required in the paradigm of how you think about what our priorities are. And I'm basically suggesting that one missile which costs a million dollars could go a long way towards building a hospital or buy a whole lot of generators and keeping a troop in Afghanistan which costs apparently $2.4 million per year times the 5,000 or so troops that are in Afghanistan. And that's about $12 billion. That could go a long way. It's up quick. It does. So the money's here. It's just we need to change our priorities about where to spend it. And by the way, this applies to Europe too. You know, the European countries have territories throughout the Caribbean, the United Kingdom, France, the Netherlands, and so on. So they are also involved. They've got stakeholders over there. They've got people that they're responsible for. They need to take care of them. And I think historically they've always kind of backed off a little bit and let the U.S. take more of a lead on that. And we need to get more cooperation. But we've got probably about 60 seconds or so. I just want to make one pitch, believe it or not, for President Trump's idea about rebuilding the infrastructure. He's been saying this for a long time. Yes. About rebuilding the infrastructure in the U.S. in particular. Well, these disasters have presented the perfect opportunity to switch the priority for funding because a lot of infrastructure is going to have to be rebuilt pretty close to 100%. Well, yeah, it's an opportunity. We just need to be smart enough to take advantage of it. I agree. All right. Well, very good. Thank you, Steve, for being on the show today. This is Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. This was our quarterly commentary. We covered a lot of different ground. You may or may not agree with what we've talked about, but it's refreshing to get it out there and hear different perspectives. We broadcast live every Thursday from 2 to 2.30 from the Downtown Studios at Think Tech, Hawaii. Hope to see you again next week. Until then, aloha.