Okay, one, two, three. Welcome, everybody. This Friday, late here in welcome.  We've now done shows from London, Zurich and Paris. I wanted to do I wanted to do a few shows from the Canary Islands, where I was at was attending a conference. But the internet connection was just way, way, way too weak to even contemplate trying to do that. So so no, it's been a while I apologize for that. It's been, I think a week since we had a show. So somebody saying it's about the perfect time to visit Paris. It's yeah, it's a beautiful day today. Unfortunately, I'm going to be here basically less than 24 hours. And I've got to give a talk tomorrow. So I'm not gonna be able to go and do all the fun stuff that I love doing in Paris, like going to the Louvre or going to the Mose d'Orsay or just walking around the city. So a little bit of walking, but but unfortunately, quick trip. No, no matter being here before I love Paris to great city. And continues to be beautiful, walked around tonight. And it's, it's gorgeous. Alright. Another topic. So I want to talk a little bit more about Judge Kavanaugh. And it looks like there's breaking news on that something related Kavanaugh that relates to Facebook, Amazon's $15 minimum wage. Maybe some other things we'll see. And of course, there's always the super chat that is accessible to those of you on YouTube. So if you want to ask a question, and you're willing to put some money behind it, then use the super chat feature on on YouTube. Alright, so it looks like Kavanaugh is going to be approved by the Senate. It is a Democratic senators now said that he would vote for Kavanaugh. And I think almost all the Republicans, maybe with one exception have said that they would vote for him. So it looks like he will be approved probably 51 to 49 or 50 to 50 with Mike Pence breaking the tie. But it's it, it looks like it's going to happen.  I've said this before. I'm no fan of Brett Kavanaugh. I don't think he's I'm not excited about him going to Supreme Court. He's way too political as a judge. He's he's had a career in politics. He's much too much a Republican, rather than a judge with a clear judicial philosophy. He is too much of a conservative. And, and I think would vote would vote over through Rosa versus Wade and maybe some other potential issues regarding civil liberties. But so I've never been too enthusiastic about Kavanaugh of the short list. You know, there was the short list that Trump had. You know, I don't think I would have been excited by anybody, any of them. But I think I think he and the woman who was ultra Catholic with the two that I was least excited about. And primarily with Kavanaugh, it's because of how political he's been. He was part of the Bush administration. He was part of the investigation of the Clintons and the Holy Peachman. Ridiculous fiasco. And anyway, that that's the reasons. And then again, his judicial philosophy is far too, you know, mainstream standard conservative for my liking, I think probably Gorsuch is a far better judge. But given all that, I think he's qualified, you know, he's qualified. And I don't think and I've said this from the beginning of these hearings, I don't think that that these allegations were grounds for voting against them. I actually don't think these allegations should have even been put by the committee. I don't think the allegations are relevant to the issue before us. That is the issue of whether he should be appointed the Supreme Court. I've said this before I said one more time. It astounds me. I mean, I was how people misrepresent my views about these issues. I was reading somebody, somebody wrote a let me just find this. Yeah, somebody wrote a on my comment under the video in YouTube and he says, um, treatment of the arbitrary as the possible is also disappointing. I discussed why, uh, Ford's claim is not arbitrary. It might be wrong. It might be unproven. It might be lacking, you know, almost any evidence, but I wouldn't say, but it was not arbitrary. Pistemologically, it's not arbitrary. And I never said we have to investigate. I said, you have to investigate if you want to know the truth, but I don't think the truth is relevant here. Uh, he's insistent on a trial for Calvinized ad lip. So again, I never insisted on a trial for Calvinized said that if you wanted to find the truth, you would have to take this to trial. But I said over and over again, I don't think it's relevant because I don't think something you did 30 something years ago when you were 17 is relevant in your fifties and a job interview for for the Supreme Court or for any other job. I don't think any employer should take into account the actions of a 70.  He certainly didn't murder anybody. He probably got drunk a lot.  That I have no doubt about. He probably lied to the committee, but you know, the context of this line is so it's so absurd, the whole procedure, the whole circus around this is so absurd, that the hearing should have never happened. There has to be a statute of limitations for not just criminal statutes of limitation, but also a statute of limitations around, you know, in a sense, job interviews for these kind of things stuff you did when you were 17 is irrelevant. So anyway, it's amazing to me how people listen to the show. And really, it kind of don't really get what I'm saying at all, at all. But maybe it's my lack of my lack of communication skills. We'll have to we'll have to work on that. So, you know, he's going to be approved. I think that's probably the right thing in the circumstances to do. I think it's tragic. And I think we're going to pay a heavy price into the future that the extent to which this has become a bipartisan issue. I think this bipartisan, this, this golf complete and not a golf between Democrats and Republicans, to the point of scheming and dishonesty and just voting almost down the party line and everything is is incredibly destructive. It never used to be like this. For the Supreme Court, you know, they did, they did disqualify Bork in in in the 80s, but that was primarily because of his legal philosophy. They didn't have to come up with, you know, these these kind of allegations. But the ugliness the ugliness of our political lives today, both on the right and on the left, in this case, it's mostly on the left, but it's in this particular case, but it's in both the right and the left. Remember, that to a large extent, Republicans started it by not by not considering the Supreme Court nominee that Obama Obama made, you know, in it was pure partisan politics understandable. But, you know, it wouldn't be surprising that Democrats will do anything to undercut in a Republican nominee, given what Republicans did with the Democratic nominee, Obama's Democratic nominee, where they delayed, they basically wouldn't even consider him. It said they wouldn't consider him until the until the election until until, you know, at the time, they were, it was unlikely that a Trump would win, but but they were hoping and indeed he won and they got to vacate that appointment and to appoint them on to nominations. So nominees. So, you know, in in in many respects, this has been going back and forth. But really, really, really horrible. The state of our political discourse, it's never been good. And, you know, one of the scariest things to me is when the political parties get along and get together and pass laws. I like gridlock, I like stalemate. But at the end of the day, there's going to be there going to be heavy prices to pay for for the hatred, the vicious hatred, not just in politics, but not just among politicians, but among the American public around these issues, because at some point, we're going to have to do something about social security, we're going to have to do something about Medicare, you can have to cut government spending, you're only going to be able to do that if you do it bipartisan in a bipartisan fashion, you're only going to be able to do it if you get the Republicans and Democrats together to do a plan. It might not be my plan, it might not be an ideal plan, but you have to do something to curb government spending in the next 10 years. If you don't, this country is history, it's toast, it's bankrupt, completely utterly. You know, we go into depression, we go into long term stagnation and really, economy is finished and over. And yet, given the rhetoric by both parties, unless one of the parties gets an overwhelming majority and can do whatever the hell he wants, then you can have to work together. And there's no possibility because the American people don't want, I mean, Republicans and Democrats seem to be at the point today where they hate each other's guts. Now, I would have some sympathy towards that if they hated each other's guts because of ideas. But it's not really because of ideas, it's, you know, it's superficiality, it's my collectivism versus your collectivism, it's my, you know, it's my statism versus your statism. There's no real, there's no real fundamental difference anymore between Republicans and Democrats. Anyway, Kavanaugh is going to be elected, so those of you Republicans can, can be happy. But it's, it's, it's really, I think the state of American politics is really sad and pathetic. And we're going to have to, we're going to have to, I don't know what we're going to do. You know, I really fear for the future of the country. politicians on in any case, unwilling to take on the difficult task of actually, you know, doing the right thing and, and, and shrinking, I'm at spending and passing regulations, passing deregulation or doing away with regulations at the, at the legislative level to actually keep this economy going and to keep us, to keep it happening. But it's not going to happen. So, so where does the country, where does the country end up? And it, it candid up, and it's not going to get up in, in a good place. So exactly when we face these major challenges is, is hard to tell, but the way we're heading the tribalism we're encountering, the, the collectivism, the brute, unabashed, explicit collectivism, we're going to pay a heavy, heavy, heavy price in the years to come for it. We're going to pay a heavy price for Trump and we're going to pay a heavy price, a price already are for the identity politics of the left, right and left are failing us and, and leaning us down a very, very ugly, ugly road. Well, one of the manifestations of this ugly road is, is happened this week in Facebook and article in the New York Times, I know, I know, I know, I'm not supposed to cite anything from the New York Times. It's, it's a rag and indeed, I believe it is an incredibly biased newspaper, but they actually write news and, and if you want to know what's going on in the world, there's very few sources to get that, you just have to discount the bias. But this story is about Facebook. It seems pretty accurate. I don't have any reason to doubt it. It didn't seem slanted to me, but then you never know, of course. So I'm giving it to you with the caveats that it comes to the New York Times and the caveat that I would tell you about any newspaper, anything came from. Anyway, it turns out that one of Brett Kavanaugh's best friends, one of Brett Kavanaugh's best friends is a guy named Joe Kaplan. And Joe Kaplan is Facebook's vice president for global public policy. And he is a Republican and he sits in Washington, D.C. and he's responsible for global public policy. So much for the, for the idea that Facebook is only has leftists in need. Joe Kaplan was hired in 2011 partially to establish some balance. So they hired somebody from the Republican Party to kind of eliminate the suspicions, not eliminate, but, but quiet down the suspicions that they were dominated by, by leftists. Anyway, Joe Kaplan is, turns out, has known Brett Kavanaugh for many years in Washington, D.C. I think they served in the Bush administration together. And he is a very senior person at Facebook, although he works in the D.C. office, not in the, it's interesting how all these companies have D.C. offices. Just an aside, we're going to take a quick aside here. Why do all the tech companies have D.C. offices? And I don't know if that Apple does, but Google does and Facebook does. Apple probably does. Why? Well, it's a famous story. You probably heard me tell it many times before. But the famous story of Microsoft in the mid 1990s and Microsoft in the mid 1990s had no Washington office and Microsoft in the 1990s paid, they spend no money on, what do you call it, on lobbying. Had no lawyers in, in D.C. nothing. Right. And they were literally bought in front of Congress and are in Hatch, the Republican from Utah stood up and yelled at them. You guys have got to get involved in Washington, D.C. You've got to open offices in here. You've got to do, you've got to act, you've got to be in D.C. And Microsoft just sponsored that meeting was, no, we're not interested. You've got nothing to give us. You leave us alone. We'll leave you alone. We're just going to leave it at that. And they walked out. And of course, you all know the story. A few months later, knock, knock, knock at Microsoft's door. We are here from the Justice Department. We're going to go after you for antitrust because you did to offer a product for free, for free, bundling. You bundled Internet Explorer with, with, with Windows. And Netscape doesn't like that because at the time we were all paying 75 bucks for Netscape. So, you know, and I won't go through the whole story. My Microsoft suffered through the, through the court system and then regulators in-house at Microsoft are proving deals for about 10 years, destroyed the company. At what was the lesson learned? Well, the lesson learned from Microsoft was you've got to be in D.C. They spent tens of millions of dollars today. They've got a beautiful building in D.C. They've got a lot of staff in D.C. And of course, Facebook and Google and the others know this and saw this and experiment. And we're looking from the sideline and they found their beginning have had offices in D.C. Now you might say, Oh, there are cronies.  No, they just trying to survive. What are they supposed to do? They saw what happened to Microsoft and now they're trying to survive. It's an act of self-defense. Anyway, so Joe Kaplan is the lobbyist and chief, if you will. Global public policy is his title, Vice President for Global and he, he's a friend of Kavanaugh and during Kavanaugh's he sat like two rows behind Kavanaugh and was clearly visible on TV screens. And this became a big deal at Facebook. As the, you know, Facebook employees. What is a, what is a senior official from Facebook doing at Kavanaugh? We taking political sides. I noticed suddenly they're worried about taking political sides on the right when they, they, they so often take political side, a political side on the left. Anyway, there's this massive uproar now, at least according to New York Times and Facebook about Joe Kaplan going to the testimony of his friends. Joe says he's, he's, you know, one of Kavanaugh's, one of his best friends and he wanted to show support. And this is a big deal now. And in the beginning, Zuckerberg has said, look, he broke no company rules. This is, he didn't, wasn't there as a representative Facebook.  And this is not a peace people and people are writing and this is, you know, Facebook is, is, this is wrong of Facebook to do. It makes them feel uncomfortable. This is a Snoke flake generation, the nutty Snoke flake generation that, that is offended by somebody defending himself against, against a section of sexual sexual, you know, attack is offended by the fact that somebody might support his friend is offended, but won't work in the same company as somebody who won't, who, you know, who might have a different political view or might have a different view of the events around the Kavanaugh hearing. One of the, one of the guys that Facebook wrote this actually really good email, you know, Kaplan says ability and especially when times are rough, he texted this or emailed this, you know, and he said that we felt it was important to be with them at the hearing to express our love, but then last Friday, let's say, you know, the HR people said that Zuckerberg's remark about not making a big deal out of this basically remarks called stress and trauma and what painful this is the VP of HR. I mean, this is, this is the snowflake generation, many female employees were also upset when Facebook's chief operating officer Cheryl Sandbrook, who supposedly has made women's issue or personal platform and project I'm reading for the paper, did not publicly say something about this. You know, you know, she posted last Friday, she said, as a woman and someone who cares so deeply about how women are treated, the Kavanaugh issue is deeply upsetting to me. I've talked to Joel about why I think it was a mistake for him to attend, given his role in the company. But that, but that wasn't good enough. That wasn't good enough for staff at Facebook. So it's, it's, it's just this, you know, this crazy kind of witch hunt, I don't know if it's a witch hunt, crazy kind of creminations going on within Facebook, people are really upset. And I don't know how many, it's hard to tell if this is a majority of the people clearly is. It clearly is something that is shaking. Somebody wrote, let's say, Mr. If you need to change teams, company is to make sure your day to day life matches your passions. We will be sad to see you go, but we will understand. We will support you with any path you choose. But it is your responsibility to choose a path, not that of the company you work for. In other words, if you can't handle this, grow up. That's basically what Bosworth was saying. And then, of course, he had a back battle. He had a back battle them out there. So you're seeing this, the, and this is one of the things that the whole Kavanaugh thing brings to the forefront, I think. But really, I've, I've talked about many times on the show about this trend in our culture. And that is the elevation of emotions above reason. The whole hate speech, the whole offensive speech, the whole snowflake, safe spaces, micro aggressions. It's all about elevating emotion above all else. What's important is how you feel. What's important is the emotion that is invoked in you. Everything, everything is, is, is about emotion these days. And you saw this with the Kavanaugh hearing, right? Both Ford and Kavanaugh used emotion. It wasn't about facts, neither presented facts, neither presented evidence. I mean, Kavanaugh tried at least to present some evidence in terms of the diary and so on. But, but what he presented was anger. And I can understand his anger. And she presents an allegation and everybody felt sorry for her and everybody, you know, it seemed like a really sad story. But at the end of the day, it was, there was no grounds for it. And now people are demonstrating here on the basis of what? And now the claim is, now the claim is we're supposed to, we're supposed to accept anything a woman says, any accusations a woman says on face value, because she's a woman. And again, this, this is I think related to the whole individuality of the left, the whole idea of oppressive classes and oppressed classes have, you know, their, their words, you know, have more truth value, right? Because remember postmodernism and the whole new left agenda, there is no such thing as truth, everything's subjective.  There's no regard for facts, because there's no regard for reason anymore. We live in a culture where reason is being relegated to unimportant. It's relegated to a little bit of science, a little bit of tech, but even the tech industry, you know, look at these people.  First of all, this is 30 something years ago. Second, okay, it's horrible. It's not nice, but it's not affecting your life. It's not something you should personally. It's just, it is really, really scary to see people, intelligent people, people who work at Facebook are not idiots, completely break down and and and it's pure emotion. And of course, the leadership at Facebook has no moral basis by which to defend its position. The position is no big deal that Kaplan was there. So it constantly has to backtrack and has to compromise and has to appease the majority. So it can't stand up and say and take a strong moral stance. It can articulate a strong moral stance. It can't be pro reason it can't take a position is even if the position is a neutral position, it can't take a strong, neutral position. We don't have the fact that it's okay to disagree. The struggle today in the world today is the the the battle with the emotion. And you're seeing that in this example. hearings you saw that in the demonstration, people getting arrested and all this stuff. And for for for evidence, no respect, there's no respect period for fact, reality, relevant for for contact, for for what this for what this for reason represents for the mind for for what the Supreme Court represents. And therefore, what it is, was not relevant in in a value of that. And and as a consequence, parts about the ship, about this, this and all of that exists in the context of emotions.  And there's no, there's no talking about there's no facts because nobody's listening. Everybody's just obsessing about the specific emotions that that are that are involved.  So again, emotional reason. Let's let's talk a little bit about yeah, Internet, although we saw somebody it this is French Internet, but it's it's a W hotel. It's supposed to have good Internet, but it's not stable. So when I did a speed test, there's enough bandwidth to do up and download and everything. Actually, the upload speeds were quite good. And what we're doing here is uploading. It's the fact that Internet wireless, particularly in hotels, is just unstable and goes in and out. And what you see is sometimes the video is great. Sometimes the video is great and it works fine.  And that's just the inconsistency of hotel wireless connections. Have to talk about Kavanaugh, the Kavanaugh hearings and the Kavanaugh thing again. Tech, Tech, Taco says speed tests are not the same as video. I'm not trying to understand that. I thought I thought video is video is just one thing that travels and anyway, I don't know. Carry the stream to somewhere. I'm trying to get technical advice from my YouTube followers, but I'm not getting I'm not getting anything very successful. I want to talk about Amazon's I don't know if you heard, but Amazon is now paying all its warehouse employees, all its minimum wage employees or its minimum, the people who paid low salaries. They have raised the minimum wage you can get in Amazon to $15 an hour. Now, this is again an example of how politics and business are into one and how politics and business ain't separable. And so think about all the all the flack that Amazon has been getting from from the Trump administration. And from Bernie Sanders, not an accident to both Trump. The about the poor workers and the low income and you saw Tucker Carlson, Amy Peacock was in Tucker Carlson talking about this Tucker Carlson attacking, attacking Amazon for paying its employees too little, right, too little. And the implication was that something would be done to go after Amazon. Congress is going wants to go after Amazon. Trump certainly has talked often about going after Amazon. Now, the flip side of that is Amazon could say we don't care, like Microsoft did in the early 90s, but Amazon also has vast contracts with the government. Amazon's cloud services provides massive services to the US government. And of course, they don't want to have the government pressure them on price. They don't want to have the government maybe withdraw from Amazon cloud services. There is competition to Amazon cloud services. But they they just, you know, the government is waving a gun at them. It's not quite pointing at them. It's not quite pulling the trigger. Trump hasn't done anything. But rhetoric matters. The bully pulpit matters. Threats matter. So the fact that they have been harassed by Trump for all these months, the fact that the Democrat who could pay his employees more but doesn't, all of that, you know, all of that is, I think, ultimately causes Amazon caused Amazon to say, OK, you know, we'll raise the minimum wage to 15. We'll do what you want. And by the way, Amazon said, we are now going to lobby for a nationwide $15 an hour. Because if we're going to have to raise it to $15 an hour, we should damn would like our competitors to raise it to $15 an hour. But then soon enough, it is, it becomes you advocating to penalize your own competitors. And ultimately, this is a game that everybody uses, including really sad and tragic to see this happening. It's sad and tragic to see Amazon playing the game. But on the other hand, you know, what choice do they have? Choice, choice. And that's why once they did make the raise, the only way they could deal with losing a competitive advantage is by trying to get the government to raise the minimum wage on everybody. Right. It's sad, really, really, really, really sad.  Now you get the consequence. You get more cronyism, more entrenchment, more government, ultimately, not explicit government intervention, but implicit government intervention where they don't even have to pass a law. Business already cooperates with them. And at the same time, business is lobbying for all kinds of other things at the same time. It's truly, truly out what they also did with the eliminated bonuses and stock awards to the same employees. So on the one hand, the employees are getting a higher fixed rate, but they are losing their stock awards and their monthly bonuses. You know, is that a good trade off? It's like, I'm not sure it's good. It's certainly not good for Amazon, right? Amazon would above market prices. Amazon cannot pay its workers $100 an hour. Why? Because then it can't compete. It can't compete. So Amazon is in a position where the only way it can raise the minimal wage to its employees is by decreasing their wages, decreasing the, you know, using the bonuses and the stock awards, which is, you know, part of the reason you get bonuses and stock awards is to incentivize, is to motivate. It has an important function in the company. But again, politics and business, politics and business should not go together in the only way, the only way to separate politics and business is to make the people with a gun unable to use it. In other words, the only way to eliminate cronyism is to cripple government. Or basically to limit government to its proper function, to make it impossible for government, make it impossible for government to use its gun on business, make it impossible for government to regulate, to control government. The only way to get rid of cronyism is to separate economics from politics. It's a separate economics from politics. And until we do that, we will have cronyism because business has to defend itself. It has to defend itself. So, you know, it's sad. It really, when I read this about Amazon, it was sad and inevitable because when the right and the left unite against you, you're going to give in, you're going to capitulate. And even Amazon is great of a company as it is, as much as I love Jeff Bezos, as much as I love everything Amazon does. Even Amazon has caved. It's the split between reason and emotion. Oh, those poor employees who don't make enough money. And to think about the welfare state, to think about the taxes, to think about the lack of productivity and growth because of regulations, because of controls, because of all this garbage. That requires thinking. That requires studying. That requires knowledge. That requires reason to emote, to feel. That's easy. That's easy. And that's what everybody plays on. That's what Trump plays on. That's what the Democrat play on. That's what everybody plays on.


I'm going to move on to the next slide. I'm going to include an executive session at the end of the meeting. We have introduced the guests who are here. I think you recognize all of them. And I'm calling with that. I'm calling the meeting to order. So the first item on the agenda is. The planning commission update from Sandy Levine. You're right on time. So. Sandy, before you begin. I don't know if you've signed that or not.  If I haven't signed it, just let me know who to send it to. And I'll do it. Hi, Mary. Sure. I don't know if you've signed that or not. Hello, everybody. I thought we were on for five 30, but maybe that's wrong. I don't know if other planning commission members are planning to join at five 30. So. Is it possible for you to take up something else before or not? We can. We can. Okay. So the second item on the agenda is considering the appointment of. Sarah. As assistant zoning administration action likely as their motion. I'll do that. Sorry. Is there a second? I'll second. Okay. By Mary seconded by Steve. All those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Raise your hand. Aye. Aye. Opposed. Okay. Congratulations, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. Yes, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah is right. Okay. Next, next on the agenda, middle sex conservation commission member George long and echo. To discuss issues already boat launch at rights for reservoir and shady real park. Action possible. You ready to go a little early George. George. I'm all I'm here. I'm all set. I've got the pictures I wanted to show you. Okay. Perfect. Just do the share screen here. So. Natural resources conservation district with a bow and construction rebuilt. Shady real park. Over the summer. It looks great. It looks great. It looks great. It looks great. It looks great. It looks great. It looks great. It looks great. It looks great. It looks great. It looks great. They moved that road, the road that goes into the park over to the right. Then they brought in all this granite part of the delay and the construction was waiting for these materials to come. They brought in this granite. We'll come back to the outhouse. Which was used for these stone steps. River. Remember how it used to be all eroded. It was a long time ago. It was a long time ago. It was a long time ago. It was a long time ago. It was a long time ago. So, I mean, kids can go to the river and play. And then. Conservation district has since planted willows. Either side. Of the, of the paths going down. So yeah, it looks great. Beautiful work. It's more than I expected. They've also blocked off that road.  Goes around back where people used to camp and. They built a lot of the, they built a lot of the, they built a lot of the, they built a lot of the, they built a lot of the, they built a lot of the, they built a lot of the place. So that's, that's now blocked off. Here's the drainage ditch they built. And they've since planted the. Willow saplings alongside this. And then. If you look in the, the. Distance, that's where they've blocked that road. So let's come back to the problem. Outhouse. And they move the picnic shelter too. It was pretty dilapidated. It should be, should have been replaced, but that wasn't part of the job. Nor was the outhouse. This was to make a pun in pretty crappy condition before. It said something with the construction company brought in their own. Portalette. And since then the spruce tree has blown down on it. So the. Conservation commission. It feels that. Both this. Boat launch. Have, have inadequate toilet facilities. And. We, we'd ask that they. You take action as, as the board of health. The outhouse at shady rail is. I think it's unusable, unsanitary. Right. Has nothing. Both of them are. Are managed by the agency of natural resources. Usually fishing wildlife. Manages. Fishing access areas. The boat launch isn't one of those. It's kind of. It's a park. And. We would, we would go after the state and say that we're declaring it as a. Health violation and they need to fix it. Is that the process? That's what I'd think. Yeah. And there are two choices. They could build it. At shady rail, they could build a. Solar composting outhouse. They have them at grotto. Up at green river reservoir. Or they could have outhouses like. Marshfield reservoir mollies falls state park, which is also a fishing access area. They put outhouse to outhouses in there. So it's just like the ones. House have a.  Or is it just a. It's just a pit. I think under there. Goes into a pit, which isn't the best for water quality either. But I mean, it doesn't have, it doesn't have a concrete tank or anything under it is what I'm saying. I don't think so. Okay. Well, I'm not sure how that, how it works. I thought it, I thought it did, but. That's just. You might want to check it out, but we can't get in there now because the tree is blocking it. Unless someone gets in with a chain. But it's. I think that they're both health hazards. So the state has the state has no plans to do anything about either one of those. Not, not that I know of. So I guess the question is, I don't know exactly what the process would be. I would think our health officer would need to go down there and do an inspection and then file a complaint. Rob Penny went down with me. To shady real. We couldn't actually get in the outhouse. We went down to rights though. Sorry, I had a voice message come in here. I found toilet paper waste in the woods at rights though. Well, that's been an ongoing. Yeah, it has for a long time. Right. Probably an outhouses. I don't know. I don't know. A portal that rather would be a better choice there. Maybe a shady rail because it's a park. Permanent. Composting outhouse like state parks use. But in the interim, maybe a portal out. Do you know who put that portal up at the hunger mountain trail head? Because I noticed that this summer. It was a lot of work. There must be forests and parks. They've done that at a couple of high use trail heads. Where there are. Residences nearby. They did it on. On one of the camel's hump trails in Huntington too. So you wouldn't have people. Being in pooping in the woods near residences. So they wouldn't be the same group to do something like that. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what it is. It is ANR. But it's. Well, I would, I would just suggest unless somebody has a better idea that we need to. Have our health officer inspect those. Those two sites and. I don't know what the right word is, but basically, basically write them up and. See what happens. I mean, I have to believe. Some kind of, I know they don't have. They don't have a plan. They don't have a plan. They don't have a plan. But you would think. Having invested all that money. That shady real that they would have some kind of a plan. Yeah. In the. In the design. No, it wasn't the, the design was. So. Mediation. We should do something at both the beach head. And then the water, the boat launch. Is that what you're saying, George? At the boat launch and it's shady real park. Yeah. Real park or the right till dam park. Shady real. Shady real part. Shady real road. And then the rights filled boat launch just south. Right. So beach. And so ANR is the shady real one. And is the fish. Wildlife, the boat launcher. They both. They're both ANR. They're odd balls. But they, so they're not under the commissioner of fish and wildlife. No, they're really not. Okay, gotcha. Just. May I say something. Yes. I've had a conversations with both a rubber penny and with the, who is our health officer and with our new fish and wildlife officer, who's just this fantastic young guy. And he has taken it upon himself. I don't know if he met with him, George, but he's taken it upon himself to kind of patrol the boat launch as well. And he's, he's concerned about this and came into our office and asked if our health officer would go. Visit the sites and site and site them. I think what George is saying is that the select board is actually the board of health. So if you wanted to, you could convene a meeting of the board of health. And meet with Robert Petty and issue a directive to the state of Vermont to clean it up. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think that just to make sure you guys understand what's going on. Robert's been involved in this. Robert, meaning Rob, Kenny. Yeah. Yeah. And Rob, you did go to both places with me. Then I went back to rights. I would think he should. Right. I mean, maybe he can just come and present it to the select board, but he should write up some kind of report. I would think. I don't know. Or you could help Rob right up a report. I have to say that Rob has been an absolutely fantastic health officer. He is really taking, but he has the manuals. He follows them to the letter. He's already dealt with a property in town. So it might be worth it just to call a quick meeting of, or the meeting of the board of health at your next meeting, October 19th. Invite Rob.  We have an unbelievable amount of stuff on our agenda on the 19th. We have an unbelievable stuff amount on our agenda all the way to the end of the year. Okay. I agree. Let's have a short. Well, yeah. And maybe somebody who supports the select board could help Rob with a draft of what we want to have happen. So conservation. I'm going to turn it over to you at this point. All we can do is advise you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm saying maybe Sarah can help us prepare something. Right. Well, let's, let's have the meeting and then let's have the meeting and then take it from there. I think it's pretty. Yeah. We need to, we need to cite them. They need to come back to us with some kind of a. Some kind of a solution. I would think. So that makes sense to me. If everybody agrees. Yeah. Thank you, George, for taking a look at that. I'm, I'm very familiar with that situation at the boat launch. And it's been a bad situation for a long time. Yeah. Okay. So do we know. And I don't know if anyone knows, do we know. What the state is going to do with shady real or are they going to keep the gate closed? Are they going to have somebody open and close it? I don't know. You might want to be in touch with the rights. Well, conservation district. Who does the maintenance for them? You remember they tried to, the state tried to dump it on the town. They tried to dump it on the town. You got us to. I remember. Now rights bills mean doing the maintenance. Okay. Contracting to them. So. Probably Jane knows about that. Right. Jane. Yeah, she should. Cause she's on the right. So. Yeah. Mitch, you wanted to say something. I was going to offer a few guys would like me to, I can reach out to either Jane or Colin. Who's executive director of the right to a beach and. Get some feedback from them about. The best way to approach things. That's good. The manager. The question I guess is just, just. Knowing, I mean, are they going to have it open this fall? The gates been. Periodically open and close from my observation with no scheme or. I don't know if it's been open and close so people could work in there or so it's. Whether it's open to the public or not. Or what the status is. I know. I'm sorry. I don't want people in there when they were working. Sure. I get that. But it's all. I was going to make. I'm sorry. Go ahead. That's right. I was just going to mention. I know there was a post on front porch forum announcing that the park. Was closed for repairs and the plans were that it would open. In the fall. I will be happy to check and find out. Officially what their status is. And. I can make a post on front porch forum rather than. Reporting back to you guys. If there's any development that. Tell them folks would like to know about. Yeah. That's good. Okay. Thank you. Sure. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Sandy, have you got, has anybody else showed up? I see. I know Mitch is here. I don't know if Theo's going to come. I do know that Phil and Elias said they would not be able to join. So I, I think it's probably fine for me to just go ahead and. And start with this. And I can feel Theo, Theo and if he's got, if he needs, if there's other, other matters. And this can be quick for, for the select board, but thank you very much again for taking the time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'll just make a quick update on what the planning commission. Is doing. I shared with you a link to a Google doc that has. Just a quick outline of the status of the projects that we're working on and some of the materials involved. Key things for the select board to be aware of. Or we will have a. Planning commission, public hearing on the enhanced energy plan, So we're going to do a little bit of a quick recap and the end of October. And then once the planning commission adopts that, it will be handed off to the select board. In line with the timeline so that it can be voted on. By town meeting. In the spring. And the next item is the zoning update. And we're working again with the regional planning commission. And we're on track to get most of that probably completed by the regional planning commission. So we're going to do that. We're going to do that. We're going to do that. And then we're going to just make sure we do good public outreach and make sure people know what's involved and what, what, what is included in there. Peter, that was, that's the contract. And it needs, if you have it, it needs to be signed and get back to the regional planning commission. I don't know between you and Sarah, if you can do that. I can definitely, I can definitely do it, but I need to know who I'm supposed to send it to. What email address. Okay. I can track that down and send it to you. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for tonight or tomorrow morning. Okay. Great. Thank you. That walkable middle sex. Planning. Scoping study that we're working on. We, the survey has been completed. We had, I think. 143 responses to that, which is a good, you know, a reasonable response to, to a survey. We've been working on that. We've been slowing traffic down, bike routes, sidewalks, and so on. So we will be incorporating that into the study that Du Bois and King is, is working with us on. There's been some. More, more in depth actual survey work of the, the right of the town. It's not the town right of way. It's actually the state right of way. That's, that's root two. That's the, the grant for. Two overlooks and a trail on camp Mead property. We talked about this at a recent select board meeting as well. Most of that work is done. They will finalize the, well, most of the work on the grant is done. The actual work to build the overlooks is still going to fall on. And that's, you know, I'm happy to answer any questions if folks have questions or thoughts about anything else that the planning commission is doing. Questions anyone. Okay. Thank you, Sandy. That's great. It is really useful to have you appear and do this from time to time. And I appreciate the. The link to that. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Sandy. Thanks. Okay. Treasurer's update. Possible continued discussion of Corona virus relief fund. Arpa options. And. Questions anyone. Okay. Thank you, Sandy. That's great. It is really useful to have you appear and do this from time to time. And I appreciate the. The link to that document as well. That's how. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Sandy. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much for all of those comments. And Lafayette bill action. Possible. Okay, let's start with the easy one. Lafayette bill. I'm still holding that out. Voice. So I just need authorization from the board to pay it. understanding I talked to Shane today because I followed up and he said Victor had the update but apparently they turned us down on our 50-50 offer and said that they don't consider that they did anything wrong and that we need to pay the bill. Is that true, Victor? I guess we weren't getting any answer back. Shane had called the state Jim Coda. He wasn't answering Shane. I finally said enough is enough so I called Jim Coda and talked to him. Obviously no matter what happened the state's not going to compensate us any money. He said that the mystery man nobody would admit or didn't own or I guess that's not a good word. No one could remember talking to anybody from Jamie from Lafayette. He said that he wouldn't have noticed it but then when we went out and when he went out to look at the sign of course the lights were flashing which was a violation of the permit and then the sign the black and white 35 mile an hour sign that's supposed to be on there wasn't on there but then he got to looking and noticed that the sign was back at the 35 mile an hour sign so our sign was in the 50 mile an hour sign. So I looked we looked in I looked into it and then that I guess the we voted on that that town meeting and then Paul was still here and he voted he he I believe he went through I don't know what what he did he's here tonight maybe he can say but he got the permit and when we got the permit Jamie showed up and they went out there with Shane and with the post we had the embankment was too steep so we couldn't we couldn't put it in so they moved it and then of course it wasn't okay to move that so the state came back out and Matt and they rectified the situation and I talked I called Lafayette and the owner Brent wasn't in this week but Jamie the guy had actually worked but I mean he just said that you know there were things you know everybody was involved in it and that you know he didn't say that he did what he does he just assumed or he took the role that we were working for Middlesex and Middlesex didn't didn't come back with anything saying anything about it and so it actually is kind of is a as I said a calamity of errors uh but the sign is finally in it costs an extra 1500 if we had to put the material in or get more post or something we would probably have spent that amount of money anyways I mean if you'd need somebody to blame you can blame me but I think you know it's just a calamity of errors and I just think we should pay it well the bottom line for me is it's just it's just annoying that there isn't some kind of cost sharing available and everybody just says well it's all on the town I agree we could have done a better job uh not that anybody deliberately did anything wrong but they also could have done a better job and for them just to say it's all on us irritates me as I've said before but the bottom line is I say it's done we better pay it they're they're not Peter they're not damn let me just finish please we probably need them more than they need us in the future and we need to put it behind us so let me make it clear they're not blaming you know they Jamie said that there were mistakes made you know I mean we could have done it better but uh we didn't they're not blaming uh they're not blaming it all on us it's uh like I said it was uh just the way the situation went and uh all I'm saying is when there's blame to go around you should split the you should split the pain and to the extent they're not willing to split it's annoying to me so anyway yeah unless anybody objects I recommend we pay the bill and put it behind us I agree I agree yeah for the record that bill is two thousand four hundred and sixty two dollars not fifteen hundred we have to make a motion no I just need I was told to not pay it until it came to a resolution so I've been holding this for quite a while now hey it's a render whoo okay it'll be uh this will be two more weeks but got it okay um the other thing is I know we've got somebody coming in to talk about the ARPA funds next meeting but um just as general information there's been a lot of discussion about how these other towns are using these funds and they're saying we need to think out of the box and anything we had to do or you have to do to make everything COVID compliant are all usable things under this money I've been having conversation moving the um Sarah's office upstairs to the second floor and new telephones because we don't have a phone up there those old things that would fall under this use right the other thing the other thing I would tell you that I have been trying to get to the bottom up with with no uh with no success is uh I talked to an unfortunate I can't remember the gentleman's name who's the chairman of the of the cv5 report Phil can you help me yeah Jeremy Hansen yes Jeremy Hansen and I said to him I said Jeremy so if the town contributes money and I'm not saying all the money but the town contributes money what what do we get in return do we get special rates for our income challenged residents do we get what do we get and return for our money and he didn't have a good answer for me no answer and then I said so what happens if we don't contribute any money he said we're going to build out middle sex anyway so to me to me that's saying you know maybe I know Worcester has has voted to give him some of their money I mean maybe should we give maybe we should give him some of the money but we should darn sure explore other other needs of the town that could fit under this before we do it yes Mary I talked to David Healy preliminarily about whether we could use some of the money to set up a fund to provide access to low income people to get the last mile hookup money so that are some of our low income residents could actually afford to get on the internet once it's set up in middle sex and I mean I would say David is the representative from callous on the CV fiber board and I think he thinks it's something that we can do so you know we got Jeremy certainly did not indicate that to me but we're going to have at our next meeting we're going to have Claire and I've asked David our representative to come to that meeting as well so I mean we're not you know nobody's nobody's pressing us to deal with this it's just concerning to me that we can't seem to get a straight answer and uh you know we say that our town hall is crumbling because of the COVID bugs crawling around in it I don't know no her point is that the air quality is bad downstairs and that there's a reason like that so she moves up to a space that's you know better is that right or not no sir we had to we had to separate the office because we could not have two people working so closely during COVID down here and we also need to build the counter with a big plexiglass shield for people coming into town which took the space of the recording station so it has nothing to do with the radon it has to do with that we had to modify everything create two different offices for cover but I mean that you know can we can we potentially claim that yes but that's a relatively small amount in the big ebb and flow of things no but I think it goes to more than that it's like if we right now we have this whole system gerry-rigged we have we drilled holes in the floor so we could get a telephone up there and you know you're also got the potential for four people working in the bookkeeping department which still would all fall under the COVID thing so there's we're just saying that that money can be used for anything like that that needs to be people need to be separated and you have to you know build out new spaces for them and things like that so it was just something that we need to if we can't go into it saying we need to do building renovations but if it's COVID related it all would be covered under it and it's a great opportunity to probably I mean all those windows upstairs are failing so it would be an ideal time to maybe consider replacing windows because you have to make it you know habitable for the people that are going to be working up there so I I agree 100 percent I mean whatever we can get we should we should go before and get I mean can we can we put in for a new lift I don't know you know but I don't know my understanding is we're going to have roughly half a million dollars right right yeah I'll pay for a lot of stuff well that's what I'm saying so but as you go I just wanted to bring it up before you meet with this person because those are the questions that I think you know we should be addressing because I just saw a difference in like heating bills last year the electric bills because we were heating that spot upstairs with electric heat you know so there's all sorts of things like that no I don't I don't I don't disagree and you know no matter what the future of that building is having it in having it in good repair is only going to be our benefit if we sell it if we demolish it it won't be to our benefit but if we sell it it will so right yes but I want I want to know I want to know what's eligible and what's not eligible and so far I feel like we don't really know we have a lot of thoughts we've got a lot of information but we don't really know that's right so in answer to your question Peter I don't think there is really an exact answer as to if we gave $50,000 what would that mean I think what it means is that overall the cost of service is reduced the more money that they don't have to borrow I understand that Liz but is it everybody's you know what I'm what I'm thinking is the towns that contribute the money should have some benefit to that town not just saying thank you for your $100,000 the the rates across our whole network of reduced 50 cents a month per user or something that doesn't sound like much of a return for the money yes Mary no I'm just waving to somebody because I'm sitting in my car somebody walked by okay I'm sitting at the WEC my meeting ended for Washington Electric Co-op I'm sitting in the parking lot doing this meeting because it ended just two minutes before I got on no I got it so so Theo unfortunately we've already had our update from Sandy I just saw that from her well thank you all and I'm sure was excellent because she is a great leader so we'll see you all later good job hi thank you all okay Duranda back to you that's okay I think that pretty much um I yeah we do need one more signature on the orders so either I don't know Phil if you can swing by or if somebody else can swing by we do need one more um I can swing by but it wouldn't be till later tomorrow like four o'clock or so okay I don't know if anybody else is around who could I'm happy to just drive on my way home and put my meeting on the phone and pop in before you guys leave I can do that I'm at work however I don't know it doesn't matter I mean I've got your like I said I have your I don't want somebody to make a special trip so I have your verbal right now so I can mail checks but we really need a signature on the page so whoever wants to do it whenever they come by and it isn't going to hurt if we have four signatures yeah because I can I can drive by on my way home from work but um at the end of this meeting well whenever I don't know how late we'll be I don't know if you don't know but no that's right okay that's the only other thing I had okay if we're going to keep doing this can we get a copy of docusign so that we could do this remotely I don't know if I have to find out if we can use docusign I don't know if that's accepted okay because the reason we were able to do it all by email previously was because there was a state of emergency yeah but you also I think back when you said you were going to do zoo meetings you were only going to do it until the first of November so I don't know if that's going to change or not so that's only one more meeting right I think we need to I think we need to hang in there doing what we're doing and see if we can't go back to in-person meeting somewhere here in the next couple of months well you had when you went to this like I said you would set November one as the day I remember thank you and the numbers are a lot worse now than they were when we made the decision this last month was the second worst month yeah the whole thing anyway what did they decide are they going back in November no they're going to take they're going to address it in November didn't say which November okay that's it from me okay Sarah what about hiring oh okay gotcha we're gonna have an executive session at the end of the meeting highway department update victor yeah um the crew is over on uh bulldog road they're finishing that up actually tomorrow I guess Jay will uh we'll do a grading on it and then at some point we have a truck down so when we get two trucks we'll put top we'll put gravel on bulldog road and and chain will either move to center road and do that cross pipe by Tim Lawson's down to the whole whole place or he'll go to uh or we'll go to uh center road yeah we're thinking this is what we were going to do the culverts on center road right I'm sorry but I didn't hear you oh I'm sorry I just said we were planning to do the culverts on center road right about now now right around the first of October yeah yeah and we've you know we've had some some issues there with with people being out with that brought up uh one uh those crossings down there uh I don't I don't know as we had it in the budget I mean we do have a paving fund but as I thought it was uh that money was going to go to supplement the grant we got um but uh what does the select board feel about uh uh paving in those areas where we uh where we have to uh dig the culverts up there'll be gravel and that's about it um but it will be uh probably be a fairly good cost where is that it's on the store between Steve's house Steve Martin's house and and the interstate the culverts we have to take the culverts out replace the culverts up through I think there's five of them and we'll be down one of them is down about eight feet so with uh we don't have a trench box or nor could we uh probably use one so the uh the the safety uh slope will probably make that you know fairly wide and uh I don't I don't know as uh gravel will hold for the winter I mean I don't know uh I don't know how Steve feels about it I don't know how Mary feels about it I know if we get into the winter and it's going to be hard to stabilize material in there if it's if it ruts up I just have a question Vic you mean you're going to take the pavement off you're going to replace the culvert and then you're either saying do we just leave it as dirt on top so you'll have pavement dirt pavement and you think that might not hold up so well or should we put some sort of pavement base over those replacements yeah hire hire a subcontractor uh Liz and come in and put put pavement in and so that it uh doesn't have a tendency to rattle out over the summer over the winter I'm sorry yes Dave uh as far as that goes um and Vic would probably vouch the same thing I doing this over the years the gravel will definitely not hold up the crew is going to have to be doing something more than once throughout the winter because of I mean if it's not like a gravel road it's just that patch and that's where it happens I I hate to spend the money but I think we're going to have to spend the money and put a minimal patch in there and a black stuff doesn't count that you put out you know they fill that stuff with the black I don't know what it's called no are you saying the thing that's the thing that's too bad about this is the thing that's too bad about it is we're just going to rip that up in the spring so I mean we should have we should have thought about this before or talked about it before we made a plan to go ahead and do this now I mean that makes me think we should we should wait and do it in the spring right before they do the pavement but I don't know if that works from a from a timing point of view how much how much do you think it will cost to put a couple of inches or whatever we need to do a pavement in those I'm afraid the pavement's going to break up too unless we compact the living of Jesus out of it well I mean Shane I mean one thought is that you know you could put some gravel in there and some like ledge in there and really really compact it and it probably you might only have to go down a little bit but I kind of lean towards what Steve just expressed I don't disagree with him I it's very hard to hold that in there in my experience and once it raffles out once it raffles once it raffles out it couldn't raffle right back up the road right back up the it won't necessarily stay in the channel that that we remove the pavement even I think didn't Steve didn't you say that you could Shane uh one of those uh piece of cutters there to cut that yeah at one time I think I still got I think I still have access to that so what that means is he would that we would cut it straight across it would it would be a straight cut and not a rabble cut yeah I mean it's up to you I mean I it was worth I think it's worth asking and whether the what you want to do how much it's all over here what's the cost yeah Paul yeah I I'm just throwing my two cents out there and even though selfishly I've got to drive it twice a day knowing the holes that we had created up on shady rail where we had to go down to some of those culverts that were further more like 10 feet below the road they're gonna have to create quite a hole so Vic you could you could ballpark that deeper one but that's probably gonna be 30 probably 30 feet if not better across on that one and and I agree with those guys I mean I see what happens in Montpelier when they try and leave dirt I mean and it's it's just atrocious and and I agree with Peter as much as I'd hate to rip that up in the spring I think we're asking for a heck of a lot of complaints from residents uh if if we didn't pay that and I don't think the guys are gonna be happy going down there trying to patch that when they've got other stuff probably be doing either yeah well you're exactly right I I I figured that it would be like that when it's down eight feet there'd be like 30 feet I'm thinking you got lucky I think it'd be like 10 000 but I could be wrong I didn't I didn't know I we can check into uh you know uh if we can get somebody to do it uh we we we would be better off to subcontract it out with somebody that actually does it rather than I mean we don't do that we don't do that kind of stuff on a on a regular basis yep I see Dorinda's hand up and I see a finger pointing okay um I'll say this might be just a stupid idea or something but we've always talked about just digging up all these paved roads and making them gravel what if we just dig up all the pavement and leave it gravel for the winter and then we're all set to plant the new pavement on it in spring well I think we save on salt here here yeah I mean just an idea well I think part of the process that we are that we are uh uh contracting for is to have that material uh uh mixed up and be part of our uh me you know I don't think they're coping and that off I think they're bone agging that could you talk English Vic yeah right I don't understand it either sir I don't I don't think they're going to remove the pavement next spring it's not my my understanding with uh with with the contractor that they put out I think we're going to we're going to grind that stuff up and mix it with the gravel lay it back out and compact it and then pave uh uh two courses of pavement over the top of it so you're not really is there any chance we could do that getting to Dorinda's idea do that now and have it be a gravel road for the winter all right uh but but when you do that you're just going to have a horrendous amount of potholes yeah I mean have you you've driven down the interstate or down uh the different some roads in the state of Vermont when they when they do that and they lay it out and of course you have to put water on it and stuff and uh it just makes potholes and they don't they don't uh come out very easy and just makes a massive drive on so did you answer I'm sorry did I miss the answer to Peter's question about whether or not it could be postponed to do this stuff in the spring so that it's the time frame excuse me the idea of doing it this fall is that no matter how much you compact it the traffic over at this winter and this fall will do more for the compaction and the fear is that if you do it next spring and then they just pave over it you're going to have a you're going to have a dip there forever because I don't understand you won't get the compaction you don't get the compaction list so as heavy vehicles as those 80 000 pound trucks drive over you're going to have a divot in the road right in a brand new road so the theory is that you that you remove or you replace your culverts like six months in advance of paving or something for that very reason yes so so Vic just just trying to think about this it was never clear to me how many dollars we were in the hole potentially with the paving grant that we got plus the money in our in our fund I I thought and this is just my memory we were still going to be like 30 or 40 000 dollars short on that project in the spring is that true well the the cost was what 331 I don't have that in front of me right now and then we had 175 in there in our paving grant has uh I mean our paving fund has how much money in it Dorinda I'd have to go pull the paperwork I can go look I just I'm just afraid that we're we're short already and spending an extra 10 000 dollars is just going to make us way short but I could have I could have the numbers wrong that my memory could be uh faulty but I had it in my head that we were we were underwater already on the project how big is the gap is it like the size of a car or is it like two car lengths well 30 feet is two car lengths 30 30 feet okay and that's five 30 feeters no no yeah but there's five culverture replacing yeah all that deep mirror well what I don't understand you know I feel like I'm sorry to be to be a stickler about this but I want to know what the whole picture is before we make a decision on whether we're going to spend 10 000 to pay something we're going to rip up and I understand the road crew might not like having to go down there and with a half a truckload of gravel and smooth that out in the middle of winter but for 10 000 dollars I I mean that road is so horrendous now in the winter and dangerous you know with those ruts that fill up with ice and water and everything else a few more divots won't make that much difference I don't think but that's just me we have 229 000 in the paving fund so and you got 175 the grant the grant was um yeah something like that I have to go pull the grant book and I think the total project was three something three thirty one depending on what we do the thing yeah so that tells me that we do have potentially have the 10 000 doing the math in my head yeah I mean obviously uh I mean we we can figure it out this week and get uh get quotes on what it would take to do that well let's see let's see a if we can get somebody to do it and b get some idea the real of the real cost I if you know it makes a big difference to me if it's 10 000 or 25 000 yes Dave I have to throw something out there and I understand what Vic is saying about the the compaction and and doing it now and letting it set through the winter which if you have that option it is a great option however the town of Middlesex crew did the shady railroad and that was put in the boys did an excellent job with compaction and we haven't had problems there you don't necessarily have to have problems with uh with compaction if it's done correctly unfortunately the state of Vermont doesn't usually do the compaction when they're doing it but most of the contractors do so I'm saying that if we had to wait until spring instead of not spending 10 000 we should be able to do that and get the right compaction in there uh interesting thanks well let's get the let's get the number Victor I mean if we can't get anybody to do it that makes it a moot point and if it's right right more money makes it a moot point too when is the the plant's gonna close down in another 30 days right uh it'll go into November yeah okay dependent you know depending on the weather yeah I don't disagree with you Steve but we haven't had a good uh a good record of uh of getting that that that compaction yes sir I had my tilbert replaced during that shady railroad time and I see those gigantic trucks going back and forth and it's perfect it's really nice there's your answer then hey uh we we rented um I'm pretty sure we rented a a reversible a large reversible plate to do most of that compaction on those culverts and and you need something a small plate compactor isn't going to do it I mean you have to start off on the bottom with something small but you have to put in some smaller lists and you have to have the right equipment right even if we rented it it's still cheaper than paying $10,000 and pay them why don't you make a motion to do that and I'll go along with it well wait I thought we're going to get some more information oh we don't need that we don't need any more information because we know the timing what we got to do is get it all we got to do is get it compacted I mean I you know I'm not so monkey wrench into any of this I just like you said our experience is more that you know it's better it's it's hard to get that compaction you know right right before the paper comes down through but hey didn't you uh didn't you didn't you guys put the roadway how'd you guys do that over didn't you didn't you put the the gravel in and then dig the culverts out there now we um just let me jump in Steven I'll jog everybody's memories since I spent almost a month down there so obviously jumping jack that we have now and the jumping jack we had one of the same we did rent a reversible plate compactor from Johnson hardware a big unit and then I actually had a pretty good coworker that worked for EA grand field and and we you ended up renting a roller from them that helped us out tremendously once we got into the bigger portions Vic then we ended up using the the roller to do those bigger portions because we you know we were spending hours but but we did three and four inch lifts the whole way up and and knock on wood we we got really good compaction but but really I was there the whole time and the catch would be those guys could not skimp on those lifts as as you know you know if you were to skimp on you know go six eight inches I think that's probably where we'd start seeing those you know that compaction after things were paved that's correct I agree with you 100 well let's see what let's see what the story is uh for the time being they can I guess do we want them to go ahead and do the culverts or do we want them to wait Vic my only question to you guys is would would you have time to do it in the spring because obviously that can be pretty time consuming would would that end up interrupting the schedule of the pavers and and the grant stuff that that would be my only unfortunate caveat to to this and them doing it in the spring would they have time enough to do it I think they're shooting for like June and so we would have to do them in the month of May and you know you know how busy you are after winter uh grading I do I do yeah and that's you know you essentially call the greater operator out of the crew you know for that month so you're down to a three-man crew you know who's going to take time off and stuff that that's the only concern and I hate to complicate this that's you know you you really lock yourself into that window that's all and the other thing I guess you know we'll so you want you want us to find out what that paving would cost and then well and if it's possible to do it all right okay yeah yeah it's limited and at this time of year those guys are all behind the eight ball and they're frantically trying to get their projects done before the asphalt plant closes down so if we can't get anybody to do it then it's a moot point and and the other thing at the same point we can have a discussion with uh you know I can have a discussion with Shane and you know get a commitment there to uh you know do like Paul said you know uh but if we don't hire somebody we're going to be down to uh we're going to then be down to three guys and uh anyways so I mean at least for another month we got three guys Bruce isn't leaving until the 28th of October uh speaking of which is there going to be a retirement celebration for him we should definitely do something for him um you know just maybe a little open house that we did that once when one of the guys was retiring you know just stop in and thank him we need to do it yeah we do we were a lot of enthusiasm for it I'm just trying to think who was the one we had it for before I can't remember I just remember going to buster wasn't it it was buster yeah I thought it was buster so it's his last day the 28th is that right Vic that's what they said that's what Shane told me uh Monday yeah okay so that's a Thursday and you know if Shane's um you know we could either do something where we come at the end of the day or come in or something that's our last 10 hour day that's our the 28th will be our last 10 hour day I believe but you're done around six right no early 430 no they get they get done at 430 they start early in the morning I think that I mean for me I'd rather go there first thing in the morning but I know that's going to get resistance from uh from other folks you bet well I think we should go we should have something right at 430 you know even if COVID is bad we you know can have the doors open and at least give our regards and I'll bring a plate of brown ace or something okay I think that's I think that's the right thing to do yeah I don't think I can't remember did we did we get buster some kind of a gift I can't yes we have to give him something that's what I was wondering whether we gave buster anything maybe he did but Sarah were she I was here yes we had a small uh gathering for uh buster did we do anything for paul no remember paul quit he didn't retire I think we were supposed to just get you on where I think the planning commission was but they thought they were supposed to speak at 530 right they've already done it they've already done it yes yes they're done that's why I said I took the notes okay thanks all right yeah I can get in the shade just started did we give buster some kind of a gift to check or flowers or a bottle of whiskey or no no we couldn't he couldn't have any he couldn't have any booze you couldn't have any sugar um I think that we just went to the um I just I recall I just went to the highway garage I'm still thinking about patty louis's suggestion what we give buster but it's not it's not uh be nice be nice it's not it's not fit for work um anyway we you did do something yeah I think the select board did show up and we did you know have a little something or other at the garage I remember it yeah I just think it's a you know treat everyone the way we like to be treated and I'm I'm not big I didn't I didn't want any kind of uh retirement hoodoo but they got me a little bit anyway in the end so whatever but I think we should do it make sure we don't forget okay and some cider maybe cider and brownies sure anything else what's the status on that truck victor what what are we talking here the truck that's down still wow okay so that's um the bed chain you know the bed chain that you pull the panel up and it puts the sand out underneath the okay they uh and shane got a little bit uh he's he's he's this will make you feel really good peter uh we're going to uh get a little bit uh more adamant uh about maintenance and taken care of the equipment uh the uh the the the covers and stuff the chain got uh from from using the excavator to take uh material out of the truck and using the digging bucket instead of the cleanup bucket and you still have to be careful so um that is down to 10 co and I I'm not it probably be ready next week or something I guess so they've had it a couple of weeks yeah Jesus I mean you know and and at least we're you know everything starts somewhere at least they're all on the same that we're spending too much money on maintenance yeah and and that's where the action starts and that's where we'll try to move forward you know Shane is aware of it and uh he's he's uh he's doing a good job of uh of uh being more a little more adamant about it good adamant mean what's that what do you mean when you say he's being a little bit more adamant about it rather than saying nothing to address it to address the issue and he's and he's he's using a little force he's being a little forcefully doing a good job does that answer your question not really but I take it you think that the guys weren't cleaning up the equipment well enough and Shane's telling him to get with it and do it that's correct okay good not just it's not we didn't have we didn't have everything Peter no I'm just gonna say it's you know changing the oil in a timely manner greasing in a product you know all the all the maintenance stuff was kind of a lot of it was a little bit on the slap-dash side let's put it that way okay thank you for thank you Peter okay and so um the other thing is the uh Shane would like to uh address the buying it you know you know the the new truck because we have to purchase it he's been in discussion with everybody that uh about a new truck and and getting it lined up with Tenco and that's for the body and the sander and stuff and so he he he will have uh he would like his presentation next select board meeting if you could okay and if anybody wants to weigh in on it you can I that's not my forte is dump trucks it would be mine either but it would be great to get the it would be great to get the information before the meeting so we have a chance to look at over Vic I'll ask him yeah I'll have him I'll have him get that together and send it just tough when you know we're looking at it while he's talking about it it's tough to make sense out of it yeah that's a good idea thank you yeah and so well said well done yeah thank you yeah oh wait um how are you doing on hiring yeah there's a good question not uh we only have one uh application uh well I just received another application but I'll discuss it in executive session all right do I get to go to that if the board decides you can be invited okay the answer is yes well don't don't we have to vote on that too Peter yes but we don't have to do it right now we'll do it when we go into executive session Mary okay the motion will be to go into executive session and Sarah and Victor and they'll be invited Dorenda and Dorenda and Dorenda always Dorenda don't forget Dorenda um okay here's here's everybody's favorite favorite subject considering waiving petitions for special articles on the 2022 town meeting that are over $250 action possible oh unfortunately I think we need to do the same thing we did last year why because of COVID the same amount we don't require a petition because of COVID because of COVID yeah I don't know I just feel like this is our new normal and we need to get with it and we need to make people to collect extra work someone is someone who collected a lot of signatures on a lot of petitions they won't even let me in the school for christ sake that's true I'm just I'm just telling you and that's you can stand outside the school they won't let anybody in the school that's what I had that's what I had to do the last time and it was damn cold and it wasn't a lot of fun I'm I mean yeah I'll do it that's fine but if it were up to me I would say one more year we do this we do the same thing and it was really appreciated when we did it last year are other towns considering this I'm sure they are but I haven't heard what they're doing do you know Sarah I don't I've been just too freaking flat out I just wondering how it got on here in the first place because every air organization is calling and saying you're going to suspend this right you're going to okay we're now kind of like for example we don't have the harvest dinner correct right we don't have any school do we have any school functions any play no I mean there are athletic games but so the the traditional Christmas concert or holiday concert and harvest dinner those aren't existing so that's why everyone's suddenly saying we don't have the same venues we used to have to to solicit petitions and basically my experience always was you stand outside way they used to let us stand in the lobby the last time we did it which was two years ago we were standing out in the parking lot trying to grab people as they went to their cars which how many signatures is it 70 for these two all right fine I don't care how many are there required 75 how many petitions are we talking we'll potentially just get themselves back on there was probably it was what over 250 there was probably I don't know 15 of them or so maybe that's what I would say I mean last year I think didn't you have some sort of provision that if you had if you would if you level funded it from last year right didn't ask for any more money and you'd been on that and you'd been on the warning that you didn't have then all you could do is submit a letter but if you wanted if you were new and you wanted more than 250 bucks or you're changing your amount then you'd have to go do a petition so you can do a hybrid thing do you want to do that wait a second you're talking I think we should do I think we should do what we did last year if they want more money they've got us a petition yeah okay so if you if for example if the kelly cupboard library comes back with I forget is it 29,000 something if they come back with the exact same amount they had last year what let's say the waterbury senior center exact same amount they had last year and they had been on the warning then yes you could do it but if they went to ten thousand and one dollars they would have to get 75 or if they're new they have to get signatures and if they're great and if they're new definitely that sounds great so move it's new for the ones under 250 they just have to send a letter right they're part of that one article you all put smush together they still have to ask to be put on right we're not going to automatically put them on they have to submit a letter there's only one you do that way then that's the conservation fund okay that's fine move that we do a motion listed list of emotions there a second oh second and and sarah you understand what the motion is yeah as if they if you're a level fund if you're issuing if you're requesting the same amount of money you requested in 2020 you don't you can all you need is a letter to the select board if you request 2020 or money or or you're new and it's over 250 you need to get 75 signatures yeah okay yeah the right year 2021 right comments before we vote i'm sorry hold on i know i have a question yeah this is right 2021 okay yeah are we ready for the vote yeah all in favor of the motion please say aye hi any opposed okay thank you okay we're still a little ahead of schedule amazing considering candidates to be nominated to lister or collector of delinquent taxes until the march 22nd count meeting action possible sarah zero okay we've considered it is there um is there something that happens in statute that says like if you do not have this someone from the select board has to do it or anything like that or no how does it happen no the select board is i you know i honestly don't know i think the select board has to hire and appraiser i'm not sure that's the same um we need to bring the listers in on this uh the select board member cannot be you can't be on uh you can't be a lister and i can't be a lister because i'm on the bca and you're on the bca and the bca ultimately will hear the listers of the appeals of grievances that is our issue so if you know anyone who's i mean i've been i've been harassing people and um i'll put it out of my facebook page right now on our neighborhood facebook page right it pays and there's going to be a hired assessor so i mean people are it's we really need someone to do data entry is it like 20 bucks an hour uh it's a little what we've been paying right now is a lot more like 21 i think or something the lister and the collector delinquent taxes actually the delinquent tax collector is hired that delinquent tax cluster i want to say i'd have to go look but it's significantly 27 bucks yeah it's like i'll say you make it you make at least 20 dollars an hour and it can be on your own schedule right well there has to be you have to be okay and you don't have to have a cdl okay well we need to work holding on by the by the seat of our pants we're okay in telltown meeting but right now we have nobody after that so well we're going to work on it yeah we really you really really really need to go out there and get your friends talk to people that you know you have spread the word and uh you need ethical people who are interested in fairness who know something about real estate who are willing to spend a few hours in the office every week that's what you need did you had somebody to see i'll talk to her well no no vick i have not heard from her did you talk to linda jackson did i i'm not gonna talk to linda jackson should we i mean she just lost her mother and she's going through a whole bunch of stuff right now so it's probably not the greatest idea okay but there are other people she has she has the training in the experience that's all i'm thinking i think she's pretty much retired from the real estate gig but yeah she would be good she's i mean she's been a listener in the past right i'll give her a call and talk to her but it's part time flexible hours yes yes it's flex yeah yeah yeah like you could have another job and do this absolutely absolutely could you have a full-time job and do this depends probably not the problem is is is during the busy time of year which is in the spring when they're trying to finalize the grand list you know it's an all hands on deck situation so to have somebody working full time and trying to do that i just don't think it would work the rest of the year potentially could work that could be a great job for a mom who's stay at home mom just so just just to clarify we we need three listers so you could have one lister who's a little bit more in the office doing the data entry but when they meet with the assessor to talk about the change in value of the properties then that then they can be at night or the evenings or in the weekends they do you see them yes so that's where not all three listers have to be right there i mean we had a lister basically who lived in the woods and who just came out during grievance hearings for about you know for years who is that okay Steve's neighbor okay um so just to be clear we really only have to have we absolutely have to have two listers we don't absolutely have to have three right my understanding is you absolutely have to have two listers you don't necessarily have to have three and you do have an assessor so i mean that is a really you have hired sign that contract so that's good who's our assessor so the idea of three it's hard for if one disagrees and the other disagrees you're kind of at an impasse whereas that's why you have an odd number in the board of listers but it's not as heavy duty as what it used to be because we are going to have the assessor we really need someone to do data entry and then we need people to attend grievances and supervise like a board of listers should do yeah got it well let's keep let's keep uh let's keep pounding the uh pounding the paper as they say and the delinquent tax collector that can be done anytime so that that doesn't need a presence in the office yeah that's actually true that's actually better i think after dinner and you know weekends oh you don't go to people's house and knock on the door no no i thought that's what it was no yes i'll knock on the door you carry the shotgun in the salt yeah here you're on video no but seriously what do they do write letters call people what do they have yeah they call them they write them they send out notices every month to them to show them that you know their balance and things like that so they make deals they make deals for payment plans right and that's an elected position both of the you know these lister and delinquent is elected so people even if we find somebody in a point and they'll have to run in the spring okay so these are elected positions um and if you like the job you could run for it in march there you go we would hope in accepting the position you would agree to okay right she's writing a book this is for my neighborhood okay that's okay whatever we can do okay moving moving right along i haven't like in a i have somebody who works for a life insurance company this would be a perfect job for her on the side they have to be for middle sex she is she's our neighbor good perfect excellent we should ask bobby penny too have you asked bobby penny sarah no i'm gonna leave he's got enough on his plate right now i'm talking about his wife her name is bobby he's rob she's bobby oh i know her from a different last name okay growth yeah but you know i hate to say this i don't want to be awful but we would really we're trying to get more younger people involved in the town and sometimes service our retired people but you know we've got a whole bunch of retired people serving and when they go that's like okay you know we're trying to build up a base here randy dreary where's randy he's not here tonight he was on earlier but his daughter had a game uh okay okay moving right along approving the minutes of the 921-21 and 923-21 select board meetings action likely is there a motion the 923-2021 only uh the liz and mary cannot vote on that one okay sorry i'll move 9-9 you'll move 9-21 where was i i don't know that's the thursday one and i forgot about it oh i didn't go i'll move 9-9 and 9-21 no no 9-21 no 9-21 come on guys 9-21 it's the meeting when i think we were all there the regular meeting okay 9-23 this is a short quickie meeting where we only had three of us okay sorry i thought that 9-9 was on there as well no i'll move 9-21 okay second to 9-21 okay seconded by steve all in favor of approving the 9-21 minutes please say aye aye any opposed okay we've approved that now the 9-23 minutes i'll make a motion to approve the 9-23 select board minutes i'll second and fill a second thank you okay all in favor aye and mary you're abstaining and liz is abstaining correct yes okay thank you okay correspondent sarah you don't have three do you um i do not have any correspondence just hate mail oh that's not true it's not i do have a question though uh for other matters that come before the board regarding our let's just we've already talked about the orders we have no correspondence now we're on other matters go ahead less uh so phil i just want to say that um i talked with um holland yeah and i i just wanted to say and i'm not sure mary you're aware of this i think we both have our emails actually i'm not sure if yours is set up the same way holland had trouble doing what we needed him to do and so what we ended up doing was just having the emails get forwarded to my gmail the problem and they come there's no problem they totally shut down my gmail the problem is when i respond i respond from my home email so i've gotten around it by just using a bookmark on my computer and and going if i want to write an email i write from the town of middle sex's rack space so i just would say mary you should check to see where your emails are actually coming from when you respond if he set it up in a way that it shows as mary dot skinner at middlesexvermont.org or is it coming from your g regular gmail account which is problematic i mean i've been i've been checking that quite a bit they all come in on one server so i get all my emails but if i think it's from the town i can actually go to that site i can pull it out and then i can respond to it so it's already set up so i can respond okay and it's responding i don't have to worry about yours yeah yeah so mine is not so i just have to be careful is what it boils down to yeah i wonder about this whole thing and i you know is by is by having these things forwarded to your gmail account if you're opening up your gmail account to potential i think you are but that's what you do that and everybody wants to see anything in my gmail account they're more than welcome but right i would tell you you'd mostly find it pretty damn boring okay can't wait to look peter oh yeah well come on over mary i'll get it up for you you can spend your afternoon i would never have to figure it out guys you might find a few you might find a few pictures of your grandchildren in there you'd like that yeah yeah i would okay i'm not done can i just finish okay go ahead i i'm also thinking that i don't believe people like sandi and mitch and whoever are using our middle sex vermont emails like i got my email from sandy but i'm pretty sure it came to my home so i'm not sure if we need sandi sandi usually uses the planning commission one no i'm just saying to me oh i see but at one time we told everybody the planning commission has one has what plan and commission has one email right it's not them i'm saying i'm saying when they're sending us an email and i think that's part of confusion i think at one time we told everybody not to send anything to the new one because nobody was able to retrieve it and i don't know if these outside boards have been told to start using those emails again or not i don't think they happened darinda i think i think my memory is the way we left it was we were going to try and get ourselves squared away first which i think largely we have finally so now i think we need to let the i hate to call it but the others know they need to be using the timing now the the planning commission had their group email changed to a distribution list yeah i see that so everybody gets it and if you respond back everybody gets it the planning commission has an individual email um and i and as far as i know um that is being used to anything i've gotten from sandy is always um on that email um individual members don't emails for that um date so they have transitioned over and i i don't think there's any other group other than us and darinda and sarah yes i think that's well victor has one oh and victor victor uses his yeah yeah victor uses his yeah it would be helpful if you could circulate what the the town emails are for everybody i don't think i've ever seen them i'm the only one with the planning commission email and i've asked other planning commission members when they do any official work to copy the planning commission middle sex email on their email so that it so that if anybody ever does a public records request all the planning commission emails are available right so have we changed changed our emails on the town yeah we should send something out yeah i've changed it they i think i have okay thank you i will check tomorrow okay okay so we need a motion to go into executive session wait hold on you're gonna you're you're making a motion to go into executive session under one vsa section three one three eight one section seven a in other words this is entering into um a discussion about contracts when and only when uh premature general public knowledge would clearly place the public body or the person involved in a substantial disadvantage in this case would make these people at substantial disadvantage if this were public because they still have jobs elsewhere so there's a personnel issue right yes but it's just to be clear that you can't always go into executive session for personnel issues in this case we're going into executive session yeah there would be a substantial disadvantage to the people we are going to discuss i'll move that Mary move who's seconded second and now you have to also include people who you want in the executive session i'll move it to include darinda our assistant clerk sarah um who else oh vict wire our road commissioner um can i just say one thing sarah i'm going to switch to my phone so i'm gonna ask to come in again okay that's fine i'm just gonna as soon as you guys pass the motion i'm gonna stop the recording i may have to get rid of my video because i have a very small amount left because i didn't have my car on and i anyway all in all in favor of the motion please say aye hi hi can you pose okay we are in executive