how we define that because we might be able to really ground that out in some physics argument. Like, oh, wow, interesting. Some creatures have expended some amount of necessary energy to create some structure. And now another creature that hasn't invested any energy to the creation of that structure is now partaking in it. I'm sure that there are ways we can make alien creatures understand theft. Well, not even just alien creatures. I mean, think about the squirrel.   The squirrel probably can sort of do that theft. They're not going to share that, right? They're not going to share it. But a squirrel doesn't really have a concept of theft. Maybe not. Sure. But I mean, we would say it's the squirrel. But again, squirrels aren't moral agents, I guess. We're not putting them on the same. Yeah. So because morality is a human thing and applies strictly to humans. So as I'm saying, theft is objectively the same. Property is theft. Having something be your property and having something stolen from a objective standpoint is exactly the same thing. These are dependently-originant concepts because they both arise within the human mind, as opposed to within nature. OK, I don't necessarily disagree, but awesome. Yeah, so that was fascinating.  James, are we? Well, this all came from the proportionality conversation. Yeah, the proportionality conversation. I guess what I'm saying is- Are we at James? Yeah, where are we at? Are we- Amazing. I kind of want to dive into the proportionality, but are you OK with the Q&A, or do you want to jump into that? Whatever you want to do. I'm just chilling. I already ate my pizza, so I'm good to go for the next six hours. I was a little worried you were going to show up with a pizza. I ate beforehand. Yeah. It would have been funny. So all right, so as far as the proportionality argument goes, I would say that humans have a basic need for justice and for things to be proportional. There's rational reasons why proportionality should be taken into account. The other reasons are, one, if you justify infinite aggression against someone because they violated some social more- To be clear, this is not my position at all. There's a very clear difference between the prevention of aggression and the punishment or the retribution of aggression. I don't believe in punishment or retribution or justice. I throw all of those concepts out. I think they're all silly. I only am talking about the prevention of somebody violating you or your autonomy. OK, so it's purely in the prevention. I think that by, again, justifying infinite violence within the context of preventing something negative from happening to a person by someone who has violated the social contract, I think what you're opening the door for is for a lot of, one, a lot of people being killed by accident because what's happening was misinterpreted. And we see that. And I think you're also opening the door for bad actors to specifically bait people into breaking the social contract specifically so they can kill them. So for number one, I don't think that I think it's generally pretty clear when somebody's trying to steal your shit or threatens great bodily harm against you. But for number two, I mean, there might be bad actors, but there can be bad actors with literally anything. Like everything can be bad actors, right? Yeah, I mean, so I was mugged. I was attacked and beaten in the face with a pistol by two guys. Hit me about five times. I actually dropped my keys. Car door was open. They could have taken my car. They could have taken my keys. The way I dealt with it, because at first I was about to start fighting them, and then I realized, oh no, that's a gun. New plan. And the way I dealt with it was I appealed to them on a personal level.  What are you doing? What's wrong with you? And this actually caused them to take a step back and to kind of realize, oh, I'm actually in this situation. They were younger than me when they attacked me. Eventually they demanded money. I had about $600 in my wallet, and I snaked my hand down. They got 20 bucks, and that way I could still pay my rent the next day and ran off. And I've had conversations with a lot of people over this, and some people have been of the mind that, you know, oh, if you had a gun, you should have killed them. And the thing is, is that I realized one in that situation, a gun actually wouldn't have helped because they totally had the drop on me. So if that gun had been loaded and I tried to draw on them, they would have shot me before I was able to. But the other big issue of it is, is that, you know, these are two kids, and they're making a mistake. They got $20 from me. It's not really that big of a deal. They injured my face, and I had some PTSD for about two to six months afterwards. But I also think back to what would have happened if, let's say, I had been armed and had killed them both. And what effect would that have had on their families and communities? How many people would go and suddenly their brother went out to hang out with his friend and he didn't come home? You know? And ultimately, I would rather them get away with the $20 and have a chance at redemption later on. And then realize what they did was wrong. Say what? What if they would have killed you? Well, exactly. But they didn't. Well, but we can't argue from one example, right? If I can literally make infinite moral arguments from one example. But what if they would have killed you? Would you be in a completely different spot at this point where, because what you're arguing, I've heard a million conservatives argue from the opposite end. Somebody tried to kill me. I had a gun. I pulled it out and I killed them. And thank God I'm alive today. My family is not deprived of my existence just because some robber wanted to mug me. Yeah. And which is why I say that you are authorized to deploy deadly force in situations where you being killed is a possibility as opposed to because you don't know if you might be killed or not.  However, acting purely on the fact that the social contract has been violated and that justifying the use of deadly force is something that I think it's a subtle but very important distinction between our two approaches here. And I worry that yours using simply the violation of the social contract is going to have a lot of really, really negative effects down the line, both for making the actual decision as to when you want to engage in that kind of thing and also for what effect it would have on the society overall. Yeah, sure. And I would argue the same, but I would just argue to reverse to yours. Like I'm okay with people infinitely defending themselves from muggers. I'm not okay with people being infinitely mugged. Okay. Well, infinite mugging. Nietzsche's eternal recurrence. Just keep going back to that moment. That'd be horrific. All right. So James, I think we're, I think we've had a point to agree to disagree. Do you want to move into the Q&A? Had myself on mute. And we're going to go into the Q&A. Thanks everybody for your questions.  Want to let you know that we at Modern Day Debate are now on podcast. And so if that's useful, we hope that it is. And so pull out your phone, find your favorite podcast app and find Modern Day Debate. As we've been encouraged, I always tell people, when I started, I was so afraid nobody would use it, but I've been encouraged that people apparently found it useful. Long drives, cleaning around the house, you name it. And so with that, thanks for your question. Thanks for your compliment. Frankie Dryden says Manny's. That's my girlfriend's nickname for me. Skinny Pete, thanks for your question. It says, is Destiny willing to debate Pogan on Marxism versus Capitalism? I don't know who that is, but sure. Juicy. And Benjamin Skillz says, anybody, let's see, more for more serious questions. Robert Bates says, you're wrong. Girdle showed that any consistent system that can express specifically arithmetic must contain, or arithmetic, sorry, must contain true statements that cannot be proven. Yeah, that's both. It is both. So that's just the positive way of saying the other thing. But yes, the implication from it containing true statements that cannot be proven also proves that that any axiomatic mathematical system contains both or it's either incomplete or contradictory. No, I just have to, I just have to totally reject that just because something, just because there might be true statements, that's a non sequitur, just because there might be true statements that can be proven by some system, does not mean the system necessarily contains contradictions. That's just the logic. Again, I take it up. And there's two, I'm sort of condensing because there's two separate incompleteness theorems. So, but I would say it's how Godel proved it is what he's referring to where essentially what they found was they made a statement that was by definition like logical definition, true and unprovable and then express that statement as a number. And or as an equation. And thus basically because they found this thing that essentially was a statement that was both, that had to be true and unprovable. They knew that essentially they had what was either an incomplete system or a contradictory system from that. So the one does flow from the other. It's just really convoluted because math is weird and very difficult to understand.  They say it follow up. Girdle never showed that arithmetic contains contradictions parentheses. There are even infinite order logic digressions that establish no contradictions.  But again, the issue is not simple arithmetic. You won't find problems. You won't find problems with this and like lower level methods when it gets further and further out in the theory that things begin to become much more unstable in the long run in much the same way that when we're talking about like the laws of gases. Under normal circumstances the gases do follow these laws but in extreme circumstances they behave in a completely different way. Juicy.  I don't argue about I feel like non-math majors arguing about Girdle's Incompleteness Theorem is crazy. Yeah. Girdle's Incompleteness Theorem I believe has to like fundamental like truths in mathematics. It's not things that are far out there. It's not like when you calculate big numbers when you reach like the speed of light that all of a sudden Girdle's Incompleteness Theorem kicks in. The issue isn't so much big numbers but it's like the fact that girls found these issues doesn't cause problems for us adding two plus two equals five even though the issues are there. But my understanding is that it's that that is the case that Girdle essentially I don't know about Girdle's second Incompleteness Theorem but I'm fairly certain that for the first Incompleteness Theorem essentially what it says is that there exists no consistent set of axioms where if you go through all of them you can prove everything that we would assume to be true about like the natural numbers. So that could literally extend to like two plus two that there will never there will always be unprovable truths in that system and that could exist at a very fundamental major. That's my understanding of it but I'm not a math major. I mean me either to tell you the truth and it is entirely possible that I've misunderstood it but it's just one of three examples and I'll also say that even if all three of my examples are wrong that I was using them to prove essentially that human created systems are fallible and that and I think what we can all agree on is that there is nothing under the sun that is perfect. Perfection is not a property within physical reality unless you believe in magic. So it wouldn't even necessarily need to be true for my argument to be true it would just be a bit embarrassing. Juicy this next one What do you think of your super sticker? Glad you love the show. Gannon Truman says question for both it seems to me that something like the moral landscape by Sam Harris would bridge the gap between both of you thoughts. In a weird way it kind of would I have an instant distaste for Sam Harris. Because of the number of things that he said with regard to Muslims and some hypotheticals he's entertained. And I also kind of have a bit of a problem with what he has he started to you know do meditation and experiment in Buddhism and I think that's really great but he's taken a very specific and in my opinion toxic western attitude and infused it. So I possibly could help us bridge the gap because I do think that there are some good things that Sam Harris has to say. And I think that it does I see exactly what you're getting at and why you'd think that but also like I just instinctively bristle at the mention of Sam Harris. Destiny do you have a My applied positions would actually be almost identical to Sam Harris's I imagine if we disagree on something it's going to be on an empirical matter of fact.  His vanity. I am an anti-realist in regards to like any like absolute moral truth or whatever I don't believe that that can be established.    Harris does not have the pre-work as a background he does not have the any engagement with the academic literature for him to claim that he's like just solved this age-old problem of thousands of years in ethics is just really cranger in my opinion. So that yeah. Kind of like Stephen Molyneux with yeah that guy's on a whole other level crazy but yeah Sam Harris and me I imagine depending on the information we possess would have very similar applied positions he's just going to make much stronger claims about the truthfulness of his morality than I will about mine. And Gannon Truman says question for both it seems to me no we got that. Bilda Panker says I think I've watched two to three debates here's my taxes paid thanks for your support. Turbo says bring out the pizza destiny intimidate him. Thank you. The pizza was not about intimidation the pizza was about distraction which people do go watch Donald Trump debate Hillary Clinton though I don't think destiny did that. Mark Reed thanks for your question says destiny if someone spikes a drink with a synthetic harmless drug that causes euphoria and maximizes their happiness does that make that action moral.  If someone spiked a drink with a synthetic harmless drug that causes euphoria and maximizes their happiness does that make the action of spiking moral. If somebody and so we would have to assume that this means absolutely no negative consequences. So the conflict I have is that in one sense you are compelling somebody to do something that they didn't choose which I think is kind of a violation of like your maximizing your existence is having some level of autonomy over your life. I would say that if there isn't some pre-existing agreement to do that I think that that decision wouldn't be ethical I don't think you can do that. I don't think you can force that onto somebody even if it would necessarily result in a better outcome because that person hasn't consented to that action and I don't think that other people doing things to you that you don't consent to necessarily will always maximize your experience. Gotcha thanks Mark Reed for that one and thanks Sigma any who asks Stephen trolley problem would you flip the lever or no what would you do and what ought I do? In the trolley problem if you can flip one lever if five people are going to die and then you flip the lever and you kill one oh man I spent a long time since I've actually engaged with this problem and I don't offhand it depends on how you universalize the concept in society. I would say that I believe that the answer that I would come on myself to is that you ought to pull the lever to kill one and save the five in that circumstance. Gotcha James love. I would hang on can I just throw in on that because I love the trolley problem. So I agree with with destiny on this you should flip the lever if those are the only two choices that you have. However the the other answer that was made pretty famous by the good place is the way you solve the trolley problem is you throw yourself under the tracks and derail the train saving all six. Oh juicy and Mark Reed I was I was expecting something terrible but that was actually kind of that's actually I like it. Mark Reed thanks for your let's see or James Labrado sorry said if people are weaponizing compassion that doesn't somehow mean that compassion itself isn't part of what it means to be a moral person. It's not possible for someone to be compassionately immoral quote unquote. That's a good point. Yeah I mean I totally disagree there's been plenty of compassionate people throughout history that have been immoral there's been a lot of people driven by religion driven by racism driven by bigotry that have been like relatively good and compassionate people in all senses of the words but they have some corrupt ideology that just leads them down to making like bad decisions. Like I'm sure that because of the compassion or in spite of the compassion it could be because of the compassion. I'm sure that there are some people that legitimately thought that they were building a better stronger Germany while they were executing the Jewish people. Yeah but again that's not compassion that you're not going to disagree with it but it I'm sure to some of those people they absolutely experienced compassion. Compassion is highly subjective. Can you define what you mean by compassion by the way because the definitions I'm getting just seems to be a little fuzzy from the way I think of it. Sure so my understanding of compassion is going to be relating to another person's experience and then understanding that they might have some level of suffering and then trying to alleviate said suffering. Okay yeah that's not what I would that's what happens like often when someone is feeling compassion but that's not actually what I would define compassion as. So we've actually been arguing about a word that we're defining two different ways. Next up. Thank you. Wait well how do you define compassion? I have to hear that. I would define compassion as the act of seeing the world through someone else's eyes and feeling what they feel. Well how is that different meaningfully from what I just said? Well you specifically defined it like more or less as taking an action based upon you kind of put it in the realm of action that taking it in action based upon emotional feelings you have towards a person as opposed to understanding them and understanding where they are and where they're coming from. Feeling connected to them because of that understanding. So and this was what was strange when you were talking about somebody like having a compassion for a black person who obviously seems to think that they are inferior to white people. What's the difference? Do you recognize the difference between compassion and empathy? I think empathy leads to compassion. So there's a difference. Empathy is kind of the ability to see the world from somebody else's perspective. But empathy leads to compassion. But your definition of compassion is more or less what I would call empathy and then I would say that that definition of empathy leads to my definition of compassion. So I would say you can have empathy without compassion though. For instance if you're a sociopath you can be empathetic in the sense that like you can see the world through somebody else's eyes and figure out the best way to manipulate them. It's the difference between understanding and then the connection between you and them that occurs because of that understanding. Okay this one coming in from Will Stewart. By the way I want to remind you folks both of our guests are linked in the description. Highly encourage you to check out those links. We really do appreciate our guests. Will Stewart says. And also again as far as compassion goes please please please if you've got anything even a dollar or a share they're a long way my friend's sister who needs the heart surgery they're a long way away from their $75,000 goal. Anything you guys can do would be makes such a huge difference for them and their family. So please thank you. You've got to thanks Brenton and thank you Will Stewart for your question which is Brenton can you demonstrate how your morals based on compassion deal with a man who breaks into your house to steal food for his family and then kills yours in the process why is your family why is your family do more compassion than his is? Okay so if someone breaks into my house I'm going to be first of all I would hope that it doesn't escalate to the point where he's killing my family just to steal some food and in fact if the guy knocks on my door and says I need food can you please help me I'm just going to give him food but let's assume that he breaks in he wants food he inadvertently kills my family or maybe he kills my family for whatever reason like I in that situation would be compromised by bias and my ability to feel compassion for him would be thrown completely out the window because of my duty to my family so I might act in a completely different way than I would normally say is ethical and we see this all the time in like in fiction and in like great tragedies and stuff it's it's when a person has some horrible circumstances befall them that then compromise them it's also the reason why we don't allow people who were mugged to sit on the trial to sit in like on the jury of the person that they're that are mugged you can't make that decision so you know I would say that in the event that something like that happened I would hope that my compassion both for my family and his would supersede any kind of driving revenge that might be instinctively coursing through my body but I would not hold myself accountable necessarily for that intense instinctual desire for revenge because again that's also part of being human so you know if society needs to hold me back and restrain me from taking revenge I would say if I were in my right mind which I cannot be in that situation it is right that I not be allowed to go and attack that person or torture and or kill his family we have systems in place to deal with this because those who are wronged cannot be judged jury and executioner and we've we've known this for for hundreds of years at least yeah wait what was it what was the question to that it was yeah it was kind of phrased a little like anybody ever want to look more like oh that's they said Brenton can you demonstrate how your morals based on compassion deal with a man who breaks into your house to steal food for his family and kills your family in the process why is your family do more compassion than his is oh yeah so okay just so I guess my answer in that situation would be if somebody's trying to break on to your property you would never be compelled to submit yourself to whatever their desires are that if they've put themselves in an aggressive situation against you you you don't have the burden to suffer whatever aggression they deem necessary for their own existence so you'd have the right to defend your property your family whatever way you see fit yeah I would agree with you that you have the right to it the only more that I can kind of add to this is I think that as far as my moral system would go both families are do equal compassion in that situation one is not do more than the other though my duty as the father in that situation is primarily to my family and not to the guy or his family I would also say that it kind of reminds me a little bit of what Nichiren Dyshonen said when he thought he was going to be executed where he said you know it's in because ultimately from a buddha sense I am the guy breaking into the house and I'm my family and I'm his family and I'm myself so he said essentially you know if even if I am to die here I have been killed thousands and millions of times before I've been I've had my family destroyed but never before have I had the chance to die for the Lotus Sutra so what I would say is as far as the moral system goes with that yeah they're out equal compassion but I in particular cannot be held to the same standards that an outside observer would be held to simply because I'm involved gotcha and James Labrano asked is doing whatever you need to keep yourself safe the same thing as doing the right thing in theory the right thing is right no matter what someone does to me if killing is wrong it is never the right thing I mean I think that you have a right to defend your autonomy from any other like thing I don't think that you ever are morally compelled submit yourself to somebody else's aggressions because I would never want to be in a situation where I am morally compelled to submit myself to somebody else's aggressions gotcha it makes me think this is actually kind of interesting because there's a so in the Lotus Sutra or no this isn't the Lotus Sutra it's a different one there's a story where the Buddha finds a starving lioness and literally offers to feed himself to her and her cubs and the lioness is so starving at this point that he cannot actually she won't eat him so he literally pulls his own flesh out and feeds it to her and he dies presumably in the family of lions lives and the story ends with each one of those lions being reincarnated as apostles of the Buddha in the in the next life sort of showing the interconnectedness of life I don't think that this story literally happened but it is to illustrate essentially one that you actually can't die and two at least not permanently and two that there is a lack of attachment to the a lack of attachment to the body can actually result in very good things in the long run gotcha and thank you very much for your question this one coming in from general ball sac says isn't destiny isn't your example of the commune and the apple essentially an argument against illegal immigration no not not generally I mean I would be opposed if somebody would show up in some area and just start stealing resources but I don't think that that's generally how it goes I think usually when people illegally immigrate to the United States it's usually because they're coming to work it's generally not it's not impossible but it's generally pretty difficult to get on social benefits if you come as an illegal immigrant because oftentimes you don't have a legitimate social security number so even if you come and work as an illegal immigrant you'll pay into social security that you'll never get out and then same thing like if you're being you know like if you're being paid under the table oftentimes your wages are being shorted by quite a bit I think generally I think generally as illegals I think you're usually more exploited than you are exploiting the country that you go to although obviously there can be examples of that working in different ways on both sides but in general I think it's a little bit too naive and analysis to say that look oh an illegal immigrant just goes and exploits resources in an area you know the business owner that hires an illegal immigrant they're not being exploited oftentimes they're saving money on labor and a customer that shops at some firm that's paying you know less to labor is probably saving a little bit of money on their goods service so a customer of that particular area also doesn't feel like they're being hurt by an illegal immigrant but then you know some labor a native worker that maybe doesn't get a job or has downward pressure on their wages they might feel like they're a bit of a victim of an illegal immigrant or you know like the fiscal system of any given area that you know transfers a little bit more out then it gets back in they might it's it's complicated I'm sorry that was kind of an unsatisfying answer I can conceive of ways in which an illegal immigrant could just be a drain on some system that they go to that's entirely possible but in practice at least in the United States of America we don't really have a welfare system or social safety and it's so big that you can just come over and take advantage of it like that I would say in general the social safety nets in the United States are pretty shitty and pretty lacking so there's not much to go on there it is possible if I'm gonna be charitable to this guy I don't know if this guy is a fucking alt-right or just a conservative if I'm being charitable to him it is possible in places like Sweden that might happen where they take a huge number of refugees or immigrants and maybe it's possible that those people end up being a drain on the system for at least the first generation by second, third, fourth generation that might even out more but yeah that's how it was a policy question it was more complicated I agree 150% with most of everything that I heard there what I'm gonna say is a couple things one there is no ethical argument that can be given to stop the free movement of peaceful people and borders are imaginary they are lines created on the giant ball of rock and water spinning through infinite space by armies and by essentially glorified monkeys in funny hats so the the idea that simply crossing a border to work or to do something else somehow rob something from someone is absolutely ridiculous I'll also go on to echo objectively a world without borders would be 75 trillion dollars richer and in immigration of all kinds overall always results at least in the first world in economic gain because the primary thing that you need to drive the economy in the first world once the country is already industrialized as a growing population and the best way to reliably grow that population especially since first world birth rates begin to slow what you need is immigration into that country because each one of those people who come in they require services they are a consumer and they are a worker so as a direct result of that they simply contribute much more so the this would be basically as if if we were to put this back to the analogy with destiny the illegal immigrants would be like if someone snuck in and added 50 apples to destiny's pile after after taking one so yeah I don't think you can use that as an argument again immigration but people will lie to you about it and try to make you believe that immigrants are coming here to steal your stuff they're not they're just people I think I to be clear on those two points you can give ethical arguments against illegal immigration if illegal immigrants were to come and be a net drain where they live I think that would be a decent ethical argument against it right if somebody's just moving in and taking from your society I think that would be well the well the free movement of peaceful people is the issue what if we say free movement of are we begging the question but what is free movement of peaceful people if you move into an area and you begin taking those resources that's not peaceful people that's essentially resources yeah because if you come into an area and start stealing but people don't do that like well yeah but I'm saying well I'm just sorry the statement that you gave there can be no ethical or there is no ethical argument that can be given against illegal immigrants I think there's tons of ethical arguments no I said there's no ethical argument that can be made against the free movement of peaceful people there is an ethical argument you could make for instance about stopping an army from marching across the world well but like even if it's just if it's a ton of people when they come in and they don't work and they start like leaching off a system or whatever and hurting the natives there I think you can make an ethical argument against those people being even if it's free and peaceful right well you just pointed it out it's not peaceful if they're causing problems for everybody there I would say that in the event that they come into a society and a large influx of refugees causes a you know big problems that actually materially hurts people within that society you could make an ethical argument against that but that's not the reality of immigration legal or illegal at least not in the first world okay and then I would push on the second thing borders are imaginary and then borders are very real I think that we recognize that there are a lot of activities and behaviors that can stem from or that are downstream from whatever country you exist in right so for instance if I go to apply for a driver's license or try to buy a piece of property whether or not I'm going to be able to do that is going to be a function of what border I exist in and what right I have to be there certainly and why is the border there because it's the way that we've chosen to organize ourselves and yeah well I would say that's what the state has done but yes so you can say that we have let's assume let's take the criticisms of the state and it's total you know unrepectability out let's assume that this is simply the society that we have built and we have all agreed to operate by these rules those rules are still subjective the lines are still subjective it's yeah but just because something is subjective doesn't mean that it's not real I think that's really important to recognize so for instance I would make the argument that like your head doesn't really exist insofar as that matter is somehow fundamentally separated or different from the rest of your body but as a human I'm arbitrarily kind of labeled like there's a person can have a head are you familiar have you heard of Loki's wager oh yeah yeah with who gets the you can't take my you can take my head but you can't have any part of my neck yeah so then the dwarves or the elves or whatever they are they're not allowed to execute him and he walks free because they don't know where they can start shopping along the the nape of his neck or he doesn't walk free Brock the dwarf sows his his mouth shut instead probably better than losing his head but regardless just because something might not have like a strict definition or just because something might be subjective doesn't make it useless and it certainly doesn't make it unreal I think I mean it doesn't make it useless and I think borders can be useful I just thought like the statement that borders are imaginary and it goes nonsensical like I would say they're imaginary in the sense borders are imaginary in the sense that all borders that exist within this planet exist within human minds and human customs as opposed to within reality if I understand but I don't think we would say that about any other like for instance using that same definition would you ever say language is imaginary language is imagined this is a very interesting way of putting at it I would say that languages specific languages are imaginary the act of communicating with language is real and material okay you got it and jumping to the next one Nikolai says destiny equals beta is that a meme destiny is that something that your your peeps regularly say or is it in reference to the famous debate between you and Jesse Lee Peterson yeah life maybe one of my favorite videos on the internet folks if you haven't seen destiny and Jesse Lee Peterson so Kelsey Maple thanks for your question says destiny if this pure pleasure wine was had by someone else in the world but you personally never know about that happening is that a good state of affairs at all I mean it is for the person experiencing it right but I would have no knowledge of it so it may as well not exist to me you've got I just like to add on to the previous one somebody also took part of destiny's conversation and like animated it like it's South Park it's freaking hilarious to check it out and Robert let's see thanks for your last minute question said there are systems that are probably provably both consistent and complete geometry girdle is about specific specifically arithmetic and a technicality that arithmetic itself can't establish its own consistency yeah that was one of the theorems very similar to Turing's halting problem arithmetic has been proven to have no contradictions phd math yeah so again my point was to show that systems that we take as regularly think of as perfect are simply not perfect now there may be some other systems of math of mathematics that don't have the flaws or the contradictions that have been I guess identified in such a famous way I would still say there probably are flaws and contradictions in just the same sense that you have to use like non Euclidean geometry to build literally everything for instance because Euclidean geometry only applies to geometry like on a flat surface so literally all construction uses non Euclidean geometry there's also taxicab geometry and the fact that you have to have these multiple systems means that ultimately they're not complete they're complete in and of themselves as we have defined them you also can't say that they don't have any contradictions or incompleteness because again you cannot know what you don't already know but I would say overall you know you would be right in most by saying these systems have been proven to work I'm making a very specific philosophical point about the nature of reality and using that simply as one of three small examples and again as I said I think my statement about reality holds even if all three of my examples are unfortunately wrong which I don't think they are Got you and Jay G Killian777 says can Brenton explain how his moral system led him to dig part in Occupy Wall Street Yes oh thank you I've been wanting to talk about this for a while yeah so I mean Occupy was really really interesting because that's putting me back in 2010 right around the time that I first started to really identify as an anarchist and I began when I first heard about Occupy there'd been a lot of socialist protests of the year and I first completely dismissed it where I was like oh another socialist protest they're not angry enough I'll come back later and then I suddenly started to see pictures of my friends at Occupy and I started to see pictures of my friends getting arrested like being tricked onto the Brooklyn Bridge by the NYPD only to be arrested and you know handcuffed and kept in what one of my friends was actually kept in jail for 72 or 76 hours with no charges because he would not submit to a retinal scan so I mean all in all I felt that it was very very important to get down to that movement because something very big was happening that was having large effects on the rest of the country and I felt that one the movement could benefit from my presence in the sense that I was able to articulate things that certain other people were not quite as good at but also I felt that you know there's certain watersheds and moments in history where you just kind of look at yourself and realize if I don't do something to make the world a better place right now I will not be able to face myself in the mirror in the morning I think it's very important both for an artist and a human being to live in the world and to when destiny calls to do what you can to make the world a better place right now so I think that really pushed me down to Occupy Wall Street the other thing pushed me in that direction was the fact that I was really worried that the country was going in a very frightening and authoritarian direction that was before Trump and I put myself out there to see how the system how the society would respond to me taking a explicit stance against it and I learned two things with that I learned number one that it's not as bad as I feared but two it's way worse than I hoped so yeah that's how my moral system led me to Occupy though also that does predate my Buddhism and it does predate a lot of the formation of my current moral ideas so you know caveat on that gosh and thank you very much for your question this one coming in from icejj365 says ask destiny what the alternative is to the society that we are forced into I don't know you could go run and live in the forest or you could go retreat to another country live in an island it seems really hard to imagine doing either of those things I mean I guess there's a lot of free space in the United States who really wanted to but regardless of there being any alternative or not you remaining in some society that has some set of agreements that you choose not to abide to is the equivalent of you stealing from that society and they have a right to do with you as they would punish any thief I'm going to point out you actually can't live run off and live in the forest so you remember did it yeah but also he still had to obey a number of societal laws and rules to get in he becoming a hermit within a society does not remove you from that society nor does it remove you from the society's jurisdiction not completely but it'll get rid of a lot of those restrictions assuming you like don't like kill anybody or invade any like inhabited society you could probably live in the wilderness pretty off the grid for quite a while and be decently safe about it you could live in the wilderness off the grid for a while and be decently safe assuming one that you don't get sick assuming another that the government doesn't come knocking well if you don't get sick that's but that's on you that's a consequence of your decision to live completely off the grid you don't have a right to any society's resources if you decide to remove yourself from that society I mean I would kind of disagree and then I think we have a good question for you Brenton you might like this one I hate to interrupt but just because sorry Joshua Alec asks compassion must be more than just seeing through another's eyes a sadist sees the pain of others feel and therefore causes pain is that compassion okay so this is the the whole sadist masochist thing the reason people move in like develop specific kinks with regard to the either the application of pain or the experience of pain is that what's happened is is that when humans reach a heightened state there is often a confusion of is this pleasure or is this pain that I am feeling and so the oftentimes like in the mind of a masochist it is the confusion of pain with the confusion of their orgasm similarly like with a sadist it is usually related to some sort of anxiety that is relieved by inflicting pain on someone else or a particular itch that's scratched so neither of those have anything at all to do with compassion and they don't have to do with empathy and people who involve themselves in sadomasochism still are able to feel compassion and empathy outside of the realm of this particular kink that they have so it's not like because people will use like what about a sadist or what about a masochist in relation to like do on to others which you would have them do on to you a masochist is not going to look at the at the golden rule and decide that others should be hurt as it's not sadism and masochism is not what you think it is gotcha so yeah there's that and Dr. Gonzo trying to put a quarter in Brenton again says what is the best amazing memory you have of Occupy oh jeez short and pithy Brenton I would say the most amazing memory that I have of Occupy is when me and a buddy linked hands I was wearing a Barack Obama mask he was wearing a Mitt Romney mask and we walked through the police line and the police freaked out because you know the presidents are walking down long story I basically got tackled need in the spine thrown into a motorcycle by a cop but when they picked me up off the ground after my hands were zip tied I just remember everybody yelling like what's your name and you know you felt like a freaking rock star and I remember I started chanting just the most radical thing I could think of at the time which was auntie auntie Capitalista and they led me down to the to the paddy wagon and on the way into the jail Father Paul who had marched with Martin Luther King was coming out of the jail just as I was going in and I spent like the next several hours in a room with a bunch of hippie activists talking having some very very interesting conversations and getting an experience that I'd never you know really had before so I say that's the most heightened experience with Occupy there's probably better ones but but I think that's the one that I'm going to answer with today thank you very much and last one of the night thanks for your question this is a request for you destiny from Ben MC says can you ask destiny to play fortnight poggers for his fans they want it so bad oh no thank you thank you everybody what to say our guests are linked to the description we highly encourage you to check out their links we really appreciate you destiny and Brenton it's been a true pleasure thanks for hanging out with us tonight absolutely and please again if you can please give to the to the go fund me like I said anything you can do to help their family would make such a difference absolutely thanks Brenton thanks destiny and thanks everybody I'll be back with a post credit scene in just a moment to share about upcoming debates which are which are coming up next week have some juicy news so stick around we'll be right back and with that keep sifting out the reasonable reasonable from the unreasonable be right back bitties and gentlemen that was a blast oh that seriously just puts me in a good mood I first of all I I honestly just love both destiny and Brenton these guys they're awesome it was a lot of fun and we really appreciate you hanging out with us folks in fact I want to say hello to you so this is also in addition of mentioning upcoming debates like this one the super straight debate which is coming up next week you guys you don't want to miss it that's going to be epic it's going to be honestly that's on Tuesday by the way at 8 p.m. so if you haven't yet hit that subscribe button and that notification bell so you don't miss it live it is going to be a big one this coming Tuesday folks you don't want to miss it it's going to be the first time we've ever had that topic and it's also going to be the first time Tom and debate boy jangles have ever crossed paths it's honestly it's going to be epic and so we look forward to it and so yes good to see you doubting Thomas as well as the Shire Cryer and Brennan and King 101 dysentropic good to see you doubting Thomas crazymonk27 and the Jansy Fransy glad you're here and then let's see oh I didn't even while for the win sorry I didn't I thought that I thought I maybe I'm hearing things I thought that destiny said F no when someone asked when do I ask the meme question I thought he was done so I didn't mean to cut him off sorry about that and uh let's see what was it Woody thanks for being with us Nikolai glad you're here Gonzo Lude stoked you're with us friend we hope you're doing well and Woody says MDD poggers I've got to figure out what poggers means I seriously come on I'm a boomer you guys help me out here he's like you got to teach me I'm teachable I'm teachable all right but yeah so pumped though you guys we've been super encouraged thank you guys so much for your support you make this fun this channel and seriously the more the merrier we hope you feel welcome whether you are you name it whether you agree or disagree with destinies and ethical theory or whether or not you are a Christian atheist lean politically left politically right you name it we really do hope you feel welcome and we're glad you're here and so thanks everybody for your support thanks brook chavis in the chat who said smash that like button thank you very much brook for your support seriously it really does mean a lot and then mark reid good to see you and thanks mark reid for becoming a patron recently appreciate that support my friend we have a patreon meeting tomorrow it's like I can't remember it's it's depending on the tier we're also we're thinking about we might change up patreon in terms of like its structure I am always trying to figure it out because frankly it's still somewhat new to me but we are so yeah tomorrow depending on if you're in the I think it's the tier of either general ticket or the front row seating that should be a fun one tomorrow morning and that's at 10 a.m I think it's 10 a.m eastern or is it 10 a.m I'll have to it's in the patreon post sorry I'm like it's a long day but but it's it's a chance to hang out and just catch up and also for you to kind of if you happen to show and I want to give feedback on which direction the channel should go we do appreciate it is we've got a lot to learn folks we really are we're in a real way I'm still kind of new think about like people like Joe Rogan who have been at it for like I think Joe Rogan it's like the 12th year and so where are we at it like maybe our second year we're done with our second year we're in our third year I think but yeah we are looking for new ideas and we do want to change and grow so truths shoes 101 thanks for being with us so thanks for the nightcap have a blessed tomorrow peeps thanks for that appreciate your kind words and I agree there's something about like a chat when you're like during a live stream and basically if it's a live streaming you're familiar with it's kind of comforting it actually can be good for helping you fall asleep because you just feel like you're in the good company I don't know I do that sometimes for real I do actually listen to live streams of people while I'm finally gonna sleep sometimes because it's I don't know it just feels more engaging or personal doubting Tom it's good to see topout2 says buy the like button dinner first then smash it thanks for your support topout2 and we agree hit that like button like it owed you money we are excited about the future you guys and we appreciate all of your support for real I am overwhelmed with even just by being here we hope you know that like we appreciate you making it more fun the more the merrier so seriously it does make it a lot more fun for me I appreciate you and Brennan good to see you Woody glad you are here and catching up with chat hold on Mr. C glad you made it and almost caught up sigma any thanks for being with us said the great super straight debate yeah it's gonna be juicy kill a doggy good to see you and club thanks for being here and you're right kill a doggy you're right this Tuesday will be the first time that t-jump and jangles cross swords that is going to be epic is that really I don't even think that's actually a phrase used let's see define what does cross swords mean I don't think this means is anything as bad as you think yeah so like in when I type it into google it says have an argument or dispute so yeah you guys who are thinking of it sexually you guys are nasty what it says to here's the one from what is it English forums to cross swords is a well-known idea meaning to argue okay yeah see they're not perverts either what does crosswords mean urban dictionary let me see what this says we'll get to the bottom of this man nasty guys okay you guys are nasty you honestly you got some problems but uh yes club good to see you it says what's super straight well it was trending on twitter and you are going to find out this Tuesday might yeah you you definitely are not going to want to miss this debate I as far as I well I don't want to do it I don't want to define it because the funny thing is even defining it is so controversial that for real I feel like no matter what way you define it you're gonna it's gonna appear as if you're coming down on one side which I don't want you have to tune in Tuesday they'll I promise Tom will announce it but gut sick given in the house good to see you said fun debate James Mulling over doing that debate with my strange uncle Erica I'm telling you that somebody in chat just earlier tonight like an hour ago was saying that you you have to do it'd be great and I can tell you I will be more active moderating just to be sure that the person sticks with the scientific topic of the arc and so I can do more active moderating if you'd like is uh I think he'll want to debate the topic that you want or the one that I had mentioned but anyway let me know soon Erica because otherwise I've got I've got to like improvise but um I'm telling you I think it'd be a blast gut sick given and we hope you're doing well out there you freak so uh ursh man good to see uh glad you're here buddy and let's see sideshow nav I thank you so much for your your service for real and thank you just for being here another Simpsons junkie like myself I am a huge Simpsons junkie and so said great debate both dudes extremely smart I got to watch dude where's my car to feel somewhat smart again that's funny I like it and let's see here see man he says some love for you guests and the funky chums over here in chat thank you thanks for your kind where's my friend that pretty seriously means a lot and Nikolai thanks for your support thanks for just for being here appreciate it like I said we just we're glad you're here and let's see fdjffdg says do Islam versus Christianity that might work I'd be I think it'd be cool Dougie Thomas says James you've ever been on the Joe Rogan podcast ha that's funny that would honestly if we got to announce modern data bait on the Joe Rogan podcast I that would be the ticket in terms of modern data bait having a gigantic influence on the internet that would be epic yeah let's see what was I going to say so what I was going to say was so hey let me two seconds let me think about this I forgot it already oh I always to be honest I always figure if my theoretically I don't think this is going to happen because I appreciate that the people in my department are pretty cool although I think I told you guys that one story about like one professor in my department who like tried to get me in trouble for modern data bait like they told on me they told the chair of the department to be like ah James is doing this and fortunately the most of professors who like heard about it stuck up for me but theoretically really unlikely I don't think this will ever happen I don't want it to happen part of me wants it to happen a little bit but if the department ever said like James you got to get rid of your YouTube channel I'm kind of the point I'm kind of to the point now where I would say no and I would dig my heels in and fight it and if I got in big trouble to where it was a big controversy and it made the news and I got on Joe Rogan that's one way to get on there I don't know Brig Chavez says don't forget to check the Twitch chat so sorry Twitch friends I'm late give me one second I'm jumping over I've got this Cortana thing on my PC just constantly this window keeps jumping up I don't even want it it's just it's Cortana is like so persistent let me reload the old Twitch page yeah we are excited though you guys if you have not already followed us on Twitch we are excited that the Twitch uh like audience people are enjoying it which is super encouraging Red Aschatika said great debate thank you for hosting thank you so much Red Aschataka you might let me know if I'm pronouncing right and top sodal thanks said Poggers is like wow amazing oh are you serious I thought it was like Poggers like Tioga taught me what Pog meant and I was like whoa okay are is Poggers the same as like a Pog like P-A-W-G but yes Brooks Sparrow let's see that's totally wicked Xanos Carthage good to see you again in the old Twitch chat I've got to get rid of this Cortana thing it's driving me nuts constantly just popping up all over the place just disgraceful but yeah let's see here catching up in the old YouTube chat as well Manic Panda is good to see you thanks for being here with us and we might do Islam versus Christianity or maybe like Islam versus Atheism versus Christianity so it's like a triple threat that I think I'd enjoy that that'd be pretty cool Zach Frederick said Mandela effect is a debate you got to do interesting topic at the internet in society I'm open to it I just don't know who would debate it Brenton Langle is in the chat says that's why I say lock horns instead well Brenton we enjoyed listening to you and Destiny Crosswords tonight it was great and CD thanks for being with us juicy you're right about that my dear friend and what is it lock horns okay I mean that sounds even more perverse Brenton so NYC Microsoft says as long as you don't touch handles with each other thanks for being with us Microsoft and let's see you guys are nasty nasty guys Club says let's see you have to see the super straight debate as Brenton is going to be cheering for his buddy Tom jump I'm excited for it and then pipeline audio good to see you again says sure you are Brenton I know that's what I said nasty guy that Brenton but we love Brenton for real I do love Brenton that's how you know like teasing is like one of my ways in which I let you know like I'm like you're cool and top of two says always fight for MDD thank you for that I appreciate that and Woody says get them on debating you mean my professors I I don't know if our the field I went into is super I don't know if the topics would be super juicy but maybe and yeah we are let's see thank you guys for all of your support you guys believe me we in some ways we have so many critics believe me that's how you know you're doing a good job is that I'm not trying to get critics believe me I'm not it just happens naturally and if you ever try to do something in my experience this is what I've heard not just from like the motivational songs or speeches that I listen to I do listen to those but also I remember I was on LinkedIn and a lady who she got her PhD she had talked about how she's like is it true that like as your social media grows like if you have a social media like thing that you have like more haters later on and another one was like oh yeah like it's absolutely true like you'll have more more people excited about it but you've also got more people who hate it and they said they've told me it's just inevitable if you're doing something that's interesting or different or new it's inevitable you're gonna have some haters and you know the truth is the haters don't know I like it I can't get it it just it makes me motivated more excited it gets me even more pumped about the future and more determined is that some people maybe they get discouraged you're kind of like oh you know I'm just kind of sad or discouraged or I'm exhausted from it all for me I'm like I cannot wait to just keep on pressing forward even harder it gets me excited and so you guys when we do have those critics like that one professor in my department who for some reason just I don't know why just for some reason hated modern day debate or when we have all of the other you know people in other fields and it's usually people of the extremes so like people like I can tell you no joke the people who are neo NAZ IS a lot of them they hate modern day debate and I'm like I've never done anything except moderate fairly and so they hate for I'm dead serious though there are a lot of them who James is so like biased against us and it's like I'm not I don't think I am at all I think I give everybody a fair shot even the people who are NE O NAZ IS and if they wipe out it's their problem but nonetheless you know I just so I get people who blame and I also get people who blame on the other side of the spectrum like the radical you know whether it be radical politically right or politically left or politically whatever the people that's the radicals usually that are triggered and just I think it's this one reason is there are some people who are so radical they don't even want their opponents to have a chance to speak or make their case for them they're like oh you know just like they shouldn't be you know you're platforming it's irresponsible and so I'd say hey you know it just motivates me more it just gets me more excited and so we just keep pushing ahead and believe me I don't care if it's us against the world folks we're going to do it and you know there are critics out there there are haters and people oh yeah believe me if it's against it's basically if it's against us against the world we're going to do it folks we're going to prevail and it's going to be ginormous and we're excited about the future and so if you guys love the idea of a non-partisan platform I never even make my views known on this channel like I already told you and I will always keep this promise if I ever start doing videos on like politics or the news or whatever I'll just make a new channel like because I made this promise since the start that it'll always be non-partisan and it always will be non-partisan we're going to keep doing that just as we always have and so nonetheless like I said haters gonna hate so I show nafs as we got your back modern day debate rocks thanks for your kind words appreciate that thanks Brooke Chavez says you're doing a great job I appreciate that seriously it's encouraging I do I do love the kind words and yeah we're excited about the future though you guys seriously it's gonna be epic Resilat of course says another nice debate let them drink Haterade how about Star Trek versus Star Wars just for fun I'm open to that that might work that could be cool and yeah we are pumped though basically oh so I did tell you I talk about upcoming debates and so Silver Harlow has a definition for super straight in the chat if you guys want that um but yeah we are excited for the future you guys I have to let you know about some of these upcoming debates so let me just pull this up where's that I got Tom let's see ha I don't know if it's supposed to be some sort of tasteless joke Tom just messaged me something on on Facebook and I I don't know I don't know Tom I don't know if you're listening but we'll all talk to you soon maybe it's some sort of tasteless joke but uh not really we love Tom we'll be fine where is this thing I just went over to Facebook for a reason someone I could have sworn someone just told me to go over there why am I over here I thought I was going to give oh I I know what it was I was going to show you guys the calendar I was going to pull up the calendar and and talk about upcoming debates planner earth there says why is your show so early I'm not even on the east coast I'm in mountain time baby so basically really I I like streaming at six that way I can get to sleep early I'm an old man you guys I get to sleep I you know I got to sleep early I get tired out but yeah let me pull this up really quick we used to go later didn't we yeah we we used to go at nine p.m. eastern and that's actually maybe an arguably a better time so I might eventually go back to that time but I've got to think about it let me think about that and um oh yeah pulling up the calendar because that is actually I think a good time slot to start at that's when the non sequitur show started and um let me just pull this up by the way if you haven't hit that like button hey consider hitting that like button is that does support the stream we appreciate that and also want to let you know you guys one way to help modern day debate just to kind of the old grass roots campaign is if you just share it on social media like if you share a debate with anybody that just a topic you enjoy and you're like hey it's fun peeps you might check it out or if you have a friend who loves debates you might say hey you might like this this channel has debates on science religion politics upcoming debates next Monday you guys you don't want to miss it Skyler against William Stewart that's going to be fun Calvinism on trial is the title of it that's on Monday then Tuesday is this debate super straight the debate that's going to be juicy you don't want to miss it folks I'm excited for that and then Wednesday Mr. Batman versus a mystery opponent so I you'll see who the mystery opponent is soon but the black sheep says how's it going James it is going so well thanks for asking my friend I hope you're doing well and how are you Nikolai says oh let's see I got got to read that and got sick given I can't help it I have to read this because it's about her her grandfather Kent Hoven says fun fact some young earth creationist sent Kent Hoven to an evolution debunking kit that included a hat with a bunch of quote evolutionists in button form myself included I'm on a I'm on a hat in Kent's closet and dinosaur adventure that is pretty epic Erica you must feel really special that's it's pretty awesome I know that Erica I I to give credit to Erica it was her idea I don't know if you guys know that it's exciting Erica is getting married soon and we are really thrilled for her we honestly we're gonna live stream it on modern day debate and also though it's gonna be at dinosaur adventure land so you guys you better tune in for that it's gonna be a lot of fun Erica is really excited for it it's gonna be a special day Clay Corbin says thanks for doing what you do thanks so much Clay Corbin seriously I do appreciate it and Silver Harlow says I'm 50 and pressing X to doubt your claim to be an old man I'm telling you I mean I'm 34 I actually I feel great that you know they say is like oh you get older you know when you're when you're young you always think that you'd get older and you'd feel like you don't have as much pep in your step I feel like I've got a lot of pep in my step still and I might go to sleep you know early compared to you some of you young people out there however like I like to work like I enjoy like working on the doctorate stuff I like teaching I love research when I actually get time because I have so many stinking meetings but and I love moderate debate it's so fun and so yeah anyway you know it's true it's like use it or lose it so far I'm like I'm gonna use it as long as I can I love just doing what I do and next Friday this is the juicy detail we might this is like I'm still in talks with our new friend Dylan Burns we might do a collaboration event we're planning it and frankly I've already committed to saying like hey Dylan I'm in man let's do this so like it's like a win-win because I like Dylan a lot he seems like a really authentic person and so you know we do want to show him appreciation and so I'm gonna try to help as best as I can and so I'm excited for that and yeah so that you guys you will you'll want to tune in on next Friday because we might have something really special that's what we're planning and so you don't want to miss it Brian Garner says I wish destiny was debating prospective philosophy instead I'm open to that I didn't know that prospective philosophy wanted him to debate I have to let you know folks if you want to debate one thing that sometimes people do Brenton does this a lot so you might notice like wow Brenton's on here a pretty good amount oftentimes Brenton sets up a debate he reaches out to the person he'll go hey destiny you want to have a debate you know or who you know Dr. Friedman David Friedman we got introduced to him through Brenton as Brenton reached out to him on his own and he just said hey would you like to have a debate with me and and then you know they're like yeah and then Brenton comes to me and he's like do you want to host a debate with me and destiny or me and Dr. Friedman and I'm like of course look that'd be epic and so like Brenton actually like goes out and tries to find people that will get you could say new what's the word I'm looking for helps get modern day debate new exposure as we do want to have hopefully a positive influence on modern what is it YouTube and everything else and so Mr. P says James Erika Erika is confessing to building and distributing die cast models of the Coons with articulated chin function that sounds like her I don't know she says hoping for Kent to officiate the wedding that's so funny all right okay well here we go let's have a heck of a wedding here folks I'm okay from dinosaur adventure land okay so all right that's not my way that's a picture of her okay so we are excited as that would seriously be epic Reservoir of course says 35 to 45 goes by in a blink of an eye I believe it Brooke Chavez says I'm 35 welcome to the club of like mid 30s Brooke and Dowdy Thomas says 31 is throwing up on corona familiar I am basically I have to let you know I am amazed at how time is flying so fast you guys it's honestly it's frightening to the point where so I've been living here in Fort Collins, Colorado for two and a half years now a little over two and a half years and it honestly seems like I moved in like nine months ago I'm like gosh I can't believe how fast it's gone the funny thing is so yeah so I before coming here I lived in two years for two years in two different cities Lobbock, Texas at Texas Tech and then East Texas Nackadoches for Steven of Austin State University and those two years in each place I felt like I kind of like let's say by comparison to those two years in each place it seems like my time in Colorado has been even shorter even though it's actually been longer by seven months it's just nuts and so Nero says James is like a B version of Dr. Josh's impression of Kent Hovind that's true Dr. Josh he has a phenomenal impression of Kent Hovind and he also has an even better it's a phenomenal impression of praise who goes that's been totally debunked man so yeah it's funny is it George VN says I hope your channel grows a lot James you provide really great content thank you so much seriously that that's encouraging I appreciate that that means a lot it really does and so yeah we are excited about the future you guys and so other debates coming up we are trying to work on this will probably be sometime in mid April we're trying to work on a debate between Maddox in T-Jump versus socialism left oh gosh socialism done left and mouthy so that's another debate that we're hoping for in April as well as some of you guys are going to get triggered get ready we're hoping to get Billy Zig to partner with let's see ha ha ha ha oh god sick give us is the the james uh coons action figures and the worst but that's behind my Nathan Thompson plushy with glow busting catchphrases oh that's right yeah you can't go wrong with that that's funny one of the the more humorous things I know you guys some of you probably hate it but it is kind of funny celebs is only 28 it must be terrible to be old it's actually pretty good Caleb just for your information and the other thing is but yeah basically when Nathan in one of his debates I like turned away to look at something and I look back at the screen and I hadn't even noticed the change Nathan has a globe on his head like it's almost like a helmet that he's wearing and it just looks so ridiculous I couldn't help but laugh but the point is this here's the trick want to say yeah we are we are pumped about the future and so I am excited for it we do appreciate it and then I always I'm I'm so like what's the word I'm getting used to sharing this is that if you had not known it you guys we were pumped that we have a Patreon which we are excited as it's a lot of fun we love the Patreon and so it's a want to encourage you to check it out if you are excited about the vision of modern day debate namely the goal of a neutral platform hosting debates where everyone has their fair shot to make their case on a level playing field that's our goal that's what we're doing folks and that's what we are excited about doing in the future and so if you're like hey I like that I'm all in well our Patreon is pinned at the top of the chat and so you know consider that and Clay Corbin says Wotan versus Darth yeah that would be interesting we uh we are open to that but I don't know if that's gonna happen Wotan I actually reached out to recently no response I don't know I know he I have no reason to think he's mad he's probably just busy and you know I think that Wotan actually wanted to switch into political topics instead of flat earth that's not a joke I'm totally serious holy holy I I agree Mark Reed if we could host a debate between Nathan Thompson and Kent Hovind it would honestly it would just be insane like nobody wants to host a debate more than me it would actually be epic the only Nathan wants to I think Kent realizes it's outside of his experience and specialization of stuff that he's used to debating and so Kent is the one who says no over and over I've asked him for real more than once I'm pretty sure and I know other people have asked him and so it's a toughie like it'd be it'd be a cool one I agree but bear with me and so see gut-sick Gibbons says don't forget Nathan has the hot gun sunglasses the hot glue gun sunglasses on his hollowed out globe head cosplay I'll never forget being accused of being a member of the globe head space monkey religion by him I remember that oh Erica you were like oh and I think afterwards you were like I don't really want to debate him again we appreciated you being a good sport I'm telling you Erica I'm telling you think about it this way Erica hey we only live once you know we have to we have to seek out the adventures we have to it's kind of like back to the future have you ever seen back to the future the idea is that it's like back to the future absolutely epic fun adventure and we all have that opportunity and Erica that opportunity the equivalent of traveling to the past and the future is debating Mr. Batman okay I just want to let you know that that is the you know you're back to the future adventure Erica okay so I don't know if I told you you guys want to hear a story really quick this was when I was pretty much sick where I was kind of tired of adventures and no I didn't debate Mr. Batman to have an adventure though I mean that'd be a heck of one what I did is I don't know if I ever told you you guys I one time moved into basically there was this ad I think it was on Craigslist maybe I can't remember where it was I think it would have to be where it was they said hey if you have experience working with people with like mental disabilities we are looking for someone who would move in and they had said like with my son and who at the time had he had schizophrenia and I said I'm willing to because I've worked in group homes before and I said I've got experience and I'd be willing to try and so I moved in with this gentleman and what happened was did I ever tell you the story that he tried to kill me no joke I'm totally serious and it wasn't anything to do with schizophrenia like well maybe it was but I want to be clear that like there's a lot of literature that's been published on this that overall when you look at all mental disorders like people with mental disorders are not any more likely or disproportionately represented among those who are violent and so I'm not trying to throw any you know I'm not trying to create any sort of stereotype I want you to know that now what happened though this coincidentally happened to be a case in which no joke the gentleman tried to seemingly tried to kill me and what happened was I don't know what it was but basically he got sick and he threw up in the morning and so his mom let me know she said hey don't let him you know don't let him eat anything the rest of the day because he'll throw it up so just try to you know encourage him to have like seven up and everything and you know that he can hold down and I was like okay okay and so that night he was gonna have a burrito and this is like a long time we would have been living together for eh maybe a month and what was happening was he was gonna have a burrito and I said you can't do that man I'm sorry but you know you'll throw it up and your mom told me I shouldn't I you should just have seven up or juice or something and so what happened was I unplugged his burrito cooker you know the little cooker and he got angry and went to his room and later that night no joke I woke up at about it was probably I think it was 1.30 or 2 in the morning in that range what happened was I smelled gas like there was something funky I smelled so I was like what is that and so I went into because I thought I was like is this coming from the kitchen is this the stove and went into the kitchen and the stove the burner was turned on just enough to where it was letting out gas from the burner and there was yeah basically I was like well that is super weird why would that be the case and what happened was I was trying to figure it out and what I realized though is I realized he was gone so he had left the apartment but before he left he turned the gas on to where it was leaking from the oven and I thought well maybe he just bumped into it you know maybe it's a coincidence because he did like leave sometimes for late night walks but I thought but at the same time this is like later than usual and what happened was I turned off the gas obviously and I tried to let the apartment air out you know turning opening up windows and all that and I went looking for him because I wasn't convinced yet that he was trying to murder me what happened was I eventually found him it was like three in the morning at Walmart he was walking around and I was like hey you know we got to go home and this is again I didn't think that he was actually going to you know I don't think he was trying to murder me yet what happened was I called his mom though because there are other problems where where I was like I don't think this is gonna work out and I let his mom know I said hey um you know the oven was left on and I don't know what's going on here but I just don't feel comfortable living here anymore and you know and I thought maybe this is retaliation because I wouldn't let him have a burrito I maybe just loves burritos I don't know so I told his mom like hey this isn't gonna work and she's like I hope you don't interpret this as like what you know based on what Kyle said and I was like what Kyle say Kyle was the day staff so when I would go to school during the day Kyle would be a guy who basically would come to the apartment and hang out with the fellow that I lived with just to be sure that he his needs were met and and I said what did Kyle say and she's like nothing and she and I was like no but for real what did Kyle say and she's like well you know and I was like I don't know what was it and she's like well Kyle said that you know your roommate said that he planned on gassing the apartment and I was like what are you serious I was like and you think this is a coincidence I was like this is like it is that he was trying to gas me like that's exactly what happened and so long story short I moved out I'm so glad I survived and I didn't get murdered I really enjoy being here I'm thankful I'm alive and so anyway I just want to let you know about that story I'm thankful to be alive and I'm very serious about that I'm thankful because that's seriously I could have gone to sleep that night and never woken up so I'm thankful Guts at Gibbons says so I feel like what you're telling me James is that debating Mr. Batman would be as fun is almost getting killed by someone how on earth could I even consider refusing you but here's the thing it's an adventure if the hobbits never left the Shire what kind of adventure would Lord of the Rings be it would be a boring boring movie you know just Bilbo you know hanging out there and uh and you know Frodo just hanging out at the Shire like you have to go out there and go for it and have that adventure with you know Mr. Batman and so let's see Nero says imagine getting put on a shirt over a burrito and uh Sigma and he said what what did Kyle say that's right yeah I was wondering the same thing thank you club who said that story was much better than a lifetime movie I appreciate that Caleb I really do but yeah you guys I'm excited so thanks for listening to that story it's a yeah I'm I'm like so I am thankful like and uh so what I'm saying is Erica it's time to debate Mr. Batman okay but yeah thank you guys for all your support seriously I love you guys you guys are honestly fun I do appreciate you more than you know Woody thanks for that picture of a burrito Brooke Chavis yeah I totally it's alright TJB says be careful thank you for that Nero says glad you survived me too I appreciate that Sigma and he said came in for a debate state for Bunker story time thank you for that I appreciate that Michael Stein said fire is bad and good yet you're right could be used for good or bad true story wild wilder than now says wow that's a harrowing story I'm glad you're with us too thank you I appreciate that my friends seriously I love you guys I know I'm actually like the for real though I tell it like a joke but I'm like wow that like really seriously like if I I'm a pretty light sleeper and now I'm thankful that I am my whole life I was not thankful that I was I kind of wish that I could just sleep through any but all sorts of things wake me up um sound smells like whatever light I'm pretty like I like to just be in a very controlled space and so um I'm so thankful though because it's like it's absolutely true it would have been the most tragic thing in my life and that's like the yeah so but we uh I appreciate you guys thanks so much Brooke Chavis says jays we need story time after every debate there I could share fun stories about like I used to do couch surfing you guys I don't think I ever told you this um I used to do couch surfing which if you it's like Airbnb except you don't pay it's just it's all about the relationship it's just about you know you make friends and you you stay with them and you get to know them and you you know enjoy each other's company and so yeah you like stay at their place while they're staying there and they're strangers you know they're just on the internet you know they have reviews so people leave reviews for each other anyway I should go it's three and a half hours so want to say thank you guys this is honestly even a blast I totally appreciate you Chris Gammon I'll tell you the other I'll tell you the story some other time because it's a it's a wild one um and so but yeah thank you guys Mr. Pieces James Mr. Batman is not a channel favorite if he comes back on banning from saying the P word I don't even know what P means I don't know if you can email me the word but thank you guys so much for all of your support seriously keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable and skeptic seven seven says would you be just by beating him up if you tried to kill you well he was a small man so I wouldn't if I was trying to defend myself I would try to like restrain somebody so that they're just not able to hurt me but I don't want to like inflict pain on somebody because they're like in any case if I could it seems like if in any case if you could restrain them without causing them you know severe pain like that's way more preferable than beating somebody up it seems like the most controlled way to do it right like it seems like the most wise way to do it because I could see like let's say it's a bar fight and somebody you know and maybe they're not you don't sense that they are disabled right let's say it's at a bar and they want to pick a fight with you and you know I don't like I don't have much I don't have hard words for anybody who like you know after the first punch is thrown you know they beat up the other person and I'm like yeah I kind of understand they're in fear mode and you know they're it's like fight or flight kind of thing so I'm kind of like yeah I don't blame them but like I feel like the most controlled thing would be like in any case you you just try to ideally you know take them down to the ground restrain them so they can't hurt you anymore and you know then you don't have to hurt them either and maybe it hurts a little when you restrain them but not like you punched them Michelle Louise Davis says hi thanks for coming by Michelle good to see you again guts to give it says a very heavy sleeper but once I woke up to the smell of my dog having thrown up five times it's kind of like your story but just with a smidge less attempted murder that's so true I'm so glad nobody has tried to murder you it's uh the funny thing is it never really traumatized me I don't know why for some reason I took it pretty well I don't know like I I feel like I would have been more like rocked by it emotionally but it's just kind of like yeah I mean like I guess it was just because I think I knew that it was the schizophrenia but Nero says more stories from James I would love to share more stories we should do this more often this is fun and then Chris Gennett says nice to meet you thanks James thank you my friend thanks for coming by top out too good to see you King 101 yeah this was a long one and a fun one thanks Brooke Chavez for coming by says good night everyone good night thanks everybody for hanging out with us love you guys seriously you make this fun appreciate you guys I hope you have a great night keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable as we strive to provide that level platform thanks everybody appreciate you hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you're from thanks and we will see you tomorrow night we have an epic debate you guys so I do want to encourage you you don't want to miss it guys that's going to be epic Maddox and Randolph are going to cross swords tonight and so we are pumped for it and so thank you guys sigman he says thanks James thanks chat department good health and grand grand spirits thank you my friend and Manic Panis says she should have at least apologized for her son trying to kill you James yeah she was in denial like she was like oh no that's not what it was and I was like I don't know like how many data points do we need here I was like like I imagine if you like kept living in the place it's like you'd have to be kind of dumb to keep living in the place at that point right it just seemed like it was like ah it's definitely what I lean toward but Saito Nav says used to see some great fights at the Ram Skeller interesting I'm trying to think of where the Ram Skeller is but I don't get out much for real thank you guys keep sifting all the reasonable from the unreasonable take care everybody love you guys


The Romeo and Juliet Law refers to a portion of a statute that allows certain people who have been convicted of sex offenses to have their names removed from the registration requirement. It is not a defense to a crime, to the actual crime of unlawful sexual activity or lute and lascivious. But if you've been convicted, there are some criteria that are very specific that allow you to remove your names, such as you can't be any more than four years older than the victim in the case, it had to be a consensual relationship. So it includes people who were 18, 19 years of age who may have been having a consensual relationship with someone under the age of 16 to come back later and remove their names from the requirement of sex offender.


Hi, everyone. Joe for Jasper's casebreaks.com. Happy Tuesday, coming at you with 2022 Panini Legacy Football 4 Box Picker Team 10. And if you follow the instructions here, you've got a chance to add some break credit. No vet commons. And away we go. Big thanks everybody here for making this happen. Patrick Davis, double last spot mojo, bought the last two teams all at once. 70% of the time. Last spot mojo hits 100% of the time. Thanks, everyone, for making this happen. So if you're keeping track at home, legacy is a 24 box case. So breaks 1 through 6 was one case. And then breaks 7 through 12 will be another case. So this is break 10. Break 11 and 12 are in the store right now, Jasper's casebreaks.com. So if you want to run those last two breaks back, that will be the rest of the case. And I think we'll have some more to post after that. Hard Knocks premieres tonight. Hard Knocks Lions. Are we excited about Hard Knocks Lions? I do like the, I forget his name. I do like the coach though. It seems like he has a lot of energy. I don't need to post a link again, Hammer Dog, because it's already in the chat. Click that link and click the next tab over. That's where the prize list is gonna be. I think if it's not working, sometimes on a mobile device, that spreadsheet could be a little difficult to navigate. But if you try tracking on a tablet or a laptop or computer or something like that, it might be a little more, a little bit easier that way. All right, there's a defensive end, George Carloftus, autograph, rookie autograph, under the lights. Jason, congrats. Yes, you can, I think. I would contact us right now. Click the support button on jaspyscasefrakes.com and let us know that you're local. And then we'll be able to set that aside for you unless we're too fast on the shipping. George Carloftus is a defensive end for the Chiefs. So that's gonna go to Aaron W. There you go, Aaron, on the board. Two autographs per box. There's Johan Dotson to $2.99 for Washington.  There's a mini Antonio Gibson. And there's Hassan Haskins, two out of 50. Rookie autograph for the Titan. That's gonna go to EA in Tennessee. And we've got a Kieran Williams to $104, the Rams, rookie card. There's Nick Bosa to $150 for the Niners. Jonathan Kent saying that's the best you've ever done in a random like that. And the national promo, nice, congrats. I appreciate you joining our breaks. Got a Cooper Cup to $50 for the Rams. That'll be for Nick T. Got a mini Orange Parallel, Deontay Johnson, that's to $125. That'll be for Michael and his Steelers. And there's a Kenny Pickett here as well. All right, that was box one. Here comes box two. Terry's always lucky in the no hit credit breaks. Your time will come, Terry. You know, you only run into some break credit or some prizes someday. That's a very good question, Jason. I don't know. I'll get Jaspy is here today. Maybe I'll ask him. He only made so many of those cases. The price has jumped up on those cases already, I think, but I wouldn't mind seeing another one. I think Jason did a second case of eminence, right? How did that look? Wow, one of the other guys at 4,000 a spot, jeez. That is wild. And yeah, who knows what price point they got it at. All that could be wildly different from place to place. Looks great, got the very standard, but some of the other cards were even more amazing. Yeah, I guess just keep an eye out on Jaspy's casebreaks.com. Maybe another one will appear. All right, here's the next box. Good luck. We got Andre Ryzen, six out of 25 old Falcons legends. And that will be for Jack. Yeah, Bad Moon Ryzen.  Who is that gonna be? Here's Carson Palmer, Bangles addition to 150. And the one-of-one is Mike Singletary. Wow. NFL Shield, autograph, and a one-of-one for EA and the Bears. I want winners. I want players that want to win. Nice one, EA. Yeah, one of my favorite coach quotes. And coach Mike Singletary. And a one-of-one as well. That means a train whistle. All aboard the Big Hit Express. Woo-hoo. Pretty sweet. Justin Fields there as well, hopefully does well this season. Got some more legends right here. There's Jerry Rice, 299 for the Niners, Oliver. And we got a mini under the lights card Dean right here, Rode Dean. There's a Desmond Ritter for the Falcons. That's gonna go to Jack. Got a John Elway for the Broncos. 50 out of 50, 50-50. Denver Broncos' sale went through, right? We got a Devo Samuel to 199 for Oliver and the Niners. Looks like Devo's gonna be staying with the Niners. Where does Jimmy Garoppolo go? There's Traylin Burks, 19 out of 20, mini. And that's the second box, third box. What are some other NFL news happening here? McVeigh, Sean McVeigh announces he signed an extension with the Rams. Brownsfear, Torna Killies for wide receiver Grant. Hmm, this, Jets say that knee injury likely to end Mackay Bekton's season, the monster tackle. That's gonna be a bummer. Oh yeah, Roquan Smith requesting a trade, saying the Bears don't value him. A lot of teams could use a Roquan Smith. He's a pretty great player. Baker Mayfield in pressing the Panthers, offensive coordinator, who was once a critic. Uh-oh, oh no. Marshawn, don't do that. Marshawn Lynch, arrested on a suspicion of DUI in Las Vegas. Get an Uber, man. Yeah, Ed saying Browns and Jets both cursed. All right, third box, good luck. There's a Mod Gardner to 50. For the Jets, that'll be for Jack. We're Desmond Ritter, we got a Mini, Jaquana Brisker to 125. That's right, Marquez Valdes scanning in Kansas City. Generations, Aaron Rodgers, Brett Farr of 25. Yeah, no kidding, Terry. Although, I'm surprised there hasn't been more issues. Well, not just NFL players, just anybody. Getting a lot of trouble in Vegas, gotta be careful out there. There's Kenneth Walker, the third, 242 out of 249. Dual Relic and Autograph. Is a Seattle Seahawk, a running back for the Seahawks. Who has Seattle? That's gonna be for Nick T on the Seahawks.  There's Andrew Booth, 299, young and dumb. They think they're invisible. You know, every season, all those rookies go through all the intro classes. They're given the number to get the free rides and all that sort of stuff. There's Chris Alave at a 50.  There's Evan Neal for the Giants.  Be careful out there. So happens to a lot of non-athletes too. There's Jalen Waddle to 199. And a dare to tear card, 12 out of 65. That's Chris Alave. Dare to tear. Now, Chris Alave, a saint, I believe. Or is he a jet? Or is Garrett Wilson the jet? Yeah, he's a saint. That will be for Nick T. Good luck with that one. Johan Dotz into 100. There's Garrett Wilson right there. The other Ohio State receiver. Does the card say what might be inside? I think it's definitely a mini card, but does it have any other information? No, it just has info on him. But I believe it'll be a mini card will be inside. Be low numbered, could be not, could be a short print, could be, who knows. That's for Nick to decide if he dares to tear. If the mini card inside is another dare to tear card, Mike, I would imagine that it'd be an even smaller mini card inside. It'd be like a Russian nesting doll. All right, fourth and final box. We do have another box, another four box break in the store. If you wanna run another one back, these are pretty fun. Pretty easy to break and pretty an easy rip. Some potential surprises. I think at a pretty friendly price point, chase a little break credit, if you buy at least an even number of teams. Kenny, pick it under the lights, I want it to pop out of here. That'll be for Michael and the Steelers. That's to 100. And that Tyler Lockett, that is four out of 10. Nice low number on that one for Seattle. Nick T. Got a blue parallel on this mini, that's David Bell. 10 out of 20 on that mini. It's for Patrick and the Browns. And we got Breeze Hall. Futures, Jersey and Autograph. Breeze Hall, a running back for the Jets. That is Jack with the Jets. From a cyclone to a jet. Frank Tarkington to 125. Volt School QB for Jack in Minnesota. We got a 25 out of 25. A rookie paper, Kenny pick it. I wonder if he'll get some starts this year. Trebisky is supposed to at least start the season. So there's Bailey Zapp for the Patriots to 125. We got a Jordan Davis rookie autograph for the Fly Eagles Fly. That'll be for Ben. There is Derek Henry to 299. The Steelers. And another dare to Terakard, it's Jonathan Taylor. Six out of 65. That's gonna be for the Colts. That'll be for Jeremy. Let us know if you dared to Ter. And that, my friends, is that. Nice solid break. Another legacy break in the books now. Let's give away a little bit of break credit. Let's flip back to this list right here. If you bought an even number of teams, half of those become entries for break credit. Aaron bought two, that's an entry. Ben bought two, that's an entry. EA bought two, that's an entry. Jack picked up eight teams, that's four entries. Michael with two teams, that's an entry. Nestor with two teams, that's an entry. Nick with six teams, that's three entries. Oliver with two teams, that's an entry. And Patrick with four teams, that's two entries. Let's just spot check these really quick. I got Patrick, Oliver, Nick. Nestor, Michael, not Karen, not Jeremy. Yes, Jack, EA, Ben, and Aaron W. All right, let's gather these names. New dice, new list, top two, $125 of break credit each. After nine times, three and a six, good luck. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. And fingers crossed, ninth and final time after nine. Nestor and EA, $125 of break credit to jaskyscasewrakes.com, go on your way. I'm Joe, I'll see you next time for the next one. Bye-bye.