And we are live on I think, which is the 88th edition of the Red Man Group. I'm your host and moderator, Donovan Sharp. We have brought to you by Tactical Soap, which will increase the size of your cockpit up to eight feet with regular use. Results may vary. Tactical Soap is not responsible for the destruction of your woman's lady parts front, back, or her esophagus. Tactical Soap, please use responsibly. We're gonna open up the phone lines here in just a few minutes. If you wanna call them to the show, the number is<PHONE_NUMBER>. I'm gonna open up the phone lines here in, I don't know, probably five or six minutes as we're doing our introductions here. But before we get started, let's go ahead and introduce today's esteemed panel. First up is Steve the Dean Williams, who runs the website, TheManMindset.com. Be sure to check out his weekly show right here on the Red Man Group channel, the Red Pill Mindset that's every Monday evening at, is it still at seven Steve? Because it's, I don't know, for whatever reason I have different times. Yes, it's seven, it's seven. Okay, very good. Excellent, seven p.m. Eastern Standard Time, which is, give me a second, which you guys definitely need to check out. Also on the panel today is none other than the CEO and founder of 21 Studios and the 21 Convention, Anthony Dream Johnson. His websites are the 21, are 21studios.com and the21convention.org, where 22 convention tickets will be on sale tomorrow. Be sure to subscribe to this channel, which is the Red Man Group, as well as this channel, 21 Studios, for exclusive content, videos, and sign up for the 21 University. Also on the show is Phil. You guys can find him on Twitter, at Evolved Phil, that is at EVOLVEDPHIL. Now, Phil, this is my first time talking to you on the air. For those, for those in our audience who are new to you, who haven't seen you before, what exactly do you do? What are some of the topics of the conversation that you talk about? I'm definitely, some of the topics I'm interested in is definitely family and patriarchy, first and foremost. Masculinity, fitness, hormones, training. I'm all about working as a, as building up men's opportunities to be successful in this world today. So that's what I'm after right there. Excellent. Okay, so you're definitely in lockstep, obviously with what we're trying to do here, otherwise Anthony wouldn't have you on. It sounds like you're certainly doing what we like to do here. So we're also a speaker at the Patriarch event in 2020. Oh, okay, so yeah. So you're gonna be a speaker at the 21 Convention Patriarch edition. I think Tanner Guzzi is going to be the keynote. Is that correct? Okay, pretty good. So that'll be, that'll be a very good time. I'm looking forward to doing that. We've moved Hunter to Vice Patriarch instead of Chief Patriarch. Oh, okay, okay. So we've got the President, the Vice President, all we need now is a Treasurer, Secretary, and the President. Well, I'm not the Chief Patriarch. I mean, that's Tanner in this case. Good stuff, good stuff. It's gonna be great. Well, let's go ahead and I'm gonna open up the floor here. The 22 Convention is a convention that is for women and by men. What that means is that we are going to have a convention specifically for women, but they're not gonna be any woman speakers or aren't gonna be any female speakers. Anthony, I'm gonna start with you here. Why do you think it's important to have an event for women number one? This is the second part of the question. Why do you think it's important not to have female speakers at a convention that is for females? Yeah, sure. So first of all, the 22 Convention is an idea I had way back in 2015. It was just like a very generalized concept to build a convention for women someday. So I've had it since 2015, the idea and the domain, but I didn't do anything with it obviously until now we're getting it going finally in 2020. And the reason for that is I did not, and I knew that I did not have a foundation for it to launch it. Like I didn't know what I wanted to do with it. I just knew that probably someday that needed to happen. For years, people had asked me if we would do a convention for women and I was like, no, I'm not a woman. I don't know, it's like to be a woman. I don't know if you're going to be a woman. So that's a whole different area. It's a whole different dynamic in human life that I have zero experience of. But in 2018, as my speech that I gave leave that year at the convention talked about, I had the idea presented to me from a former speaker at the convention, Richard Nicolai with a hat that said make women great again. And I absolutely fell in love with this idea almost immediately. Like that same night I was just raving about it.  And the very idea of making women great again, specifically in Western culture and Western nations in America and Canada and the UK, that appealed to me.  But it's not even just that. That's just like one of the most extreme or bizarre functions of it today. That's taken off like we talked about in episode 88. It's episode 89 by the way, I just checked on the channel. Anyway, so doing a convention for women is something that I've been asked for over a decade at this point, but I never really had the genesis for the foundation until I found this hat and this concept in 2018. And so since then I've been discussing with the speakers among you guys behind the scenes that over a dozen of you guys, not just the four of us on this panel. And I think it needs to happen. I think feminism getting more and more radical, more and more insane, and not even just feminist, but the derivatives of that, the offshoots of that into wider culture for women by the tens of millions who don't even consider themselves feminists but are heavily influenced by these ideas. I called in my speech in 2018, I think you were there for it, Donovan, that feminism has become the modern religion for women today. Religion in the sense of it's the dominant philosophy for how they're going to live their life. What kind of choices they're gonna make as a teenager, as a young adult, and as a woman. It absolutely dictates that in terms of life, career, family, marriage, dating, hookup culture, all the way down to cam girls, what are the thought audit, sugar babies, sugar dating.  And a lot of America, it's not all of it.  But if you leave that to smaller areas, it's not quite the same. He and I, let me interrupt you here quickly, Anthony. He and I had a conversation about that before and during the Red Man Group Live. I had no idea that he had moved out of Brooklyn and I said, well, why did you live in New York City?  If you can mention the word Trump or masculinity or anything like that, you're pretty much made a pariah. Yeah.  I went to visit him after Elliot Hulse's grounding camp event he had and we're hanging out and then he sent me to his coffee shop but he had some work done and they didn't kick him out because of my shirt. The features mask. Oh, I remember that. Yeah, that was funny. The good news is they went out of business. So that's pretty happy about that. It was right, it was right near his house.  All the people that hate people like me and like Goldman stuff and like us. Sure. Anyway, so Make Woman Great Again is the genesis of the 22 convention. It's the... And people think there's like a lot of specifics to it.  And while there are specific and general things that needs to happen for women today in America and the West, Make Woman Great Again is not about that. And I'm not here to dictate what the speakers do at the convention or what they talk about. I'm here to build the convention out, speak out of myself and then invite you guys to collaborate and figure out what Make Woman Great Again means and where it needs to go. I don't have the foresight at 31 years old to figure out what that means for tens of millions of women. I know it needs to happen, though. I know that it's important and I know that it's a very solid positive foundation to head in for women. And also women, you know, so you asked about why women should not speak of this convention.  But for the first one, I think it's very important. And I've taken some criticism for that and some heat for that, not too much, but some. And so I think the women, first of all, need to be led and that they want to be led and that they benefit from this, that patriarchy, masculine leadership in a household, for example, is the opposite of oppressive. It's what women need, what they benefit from, what they love and what makes them happy. And when they don't have it, they get bitchy and annoying and they go crazy and they blow up marriages and families and all kinds of variations of this, right?  All of which gets dumped off into children through trauma and bad examples. So I think that men need to, what's lacking in America, right now it's lacking in the West, is a fundamentally positive, fatherly, patriarchal, masculine message that these women need to hear, to benefit. Just like a father raising his child, raising his daughter like Phil does in Steve. That is not happening at a cultural scale anymore. And we're seeing, I think the detriments of that or the fallout of that and these huge movements like me too and believe women and all this bullshit, quite literally female supremacism and rampant sexism in the culture that's socially normalized at this point.  You see it all the way up to Supreme Court justices like Brett Kavanaugh, almost not getting nominated. You almost see the legal principle of innocent, proven guilty. Yeah, that was destroyed.  But what that was was feminism. Like this guy was not guilty of the crime.   Yeah, barely that.  So there's a lot of very serious problems today. And so another with women and with culture on, obviously we talked about in the red man group in the convention, but in particular, I think there is no female equivalent of the manosphere. And something Mike Sernovich, he's on your wall. They're done a picture with him at the convention, the patriarch convention where that picture was taken of you and him. We obviously interviewed him on the report with George Bruno and stuff, that's when I want to report. And he talked about how there's a total lack of positive media for women, essentially. There is no female equivalent of the manosphere.  So there's a lot of very serious problems that women are facing in America and they don't have any kind of positive education or media or messaging for them of what to do. And in the manosphere, we do plenty of, I don't want to call bitching, but criticizing of women in America today. And some of that is not legitimate, but I think the majority of it by a long shot is legitimate. There are very serious problems that women are encountering today that are not getting better and they're getting worse. And women, I think have demonstrated through their action, you know, act in non-verbal, ignore the words, watch the actions. Women have demonstrated for how many decades that they're not going to stop feminism. It's going to continue forever. It's going to keep escalating and getting more crazy. And that's going to have very serious consequences for femininity, for motherhood, for family, for the future of this country and all the other nations around it, culturally from Canada to Australia to the UK and whatnot. So we need to provide a positive message for them. They're not going to do it themselves. I do think eventually that women need to step up and teach each other how to be women, how to be feminine.  Like you need to hear from the outside in. So that really is a genesis of the 22 convention to make women great again. How to make, how to provide a positive message in education, education for women and then distribute that to millions of women for free, free to the world. Just like we do the 21 convention for men. And so there's nothing like that that exists currently. And I think that we have, as the manosphere, and particularly our speaker group that we have, little group we have the 21 mafia, so to speak, that we have the best collection of guys in the world do this. There is no one else doing it and there's no one else that can do it better by a long shot. So we have a very unique opportunity that we need to, I think, stay on top of and execute on. That's going to happen this May 1st or the 3rd in Orlando, Florida at the 22 convention. Now, Phil, this is the first time, like I said earlier, that I've talked to you on the air. I know I have my opinions on why women should not give relationship advice to anyone. This is man or woman. What are your thoughts on women advising each other on how to conduct themselves in relationships? I guess that's the first part of the question. The second part of the question is, do you think the 22 convention will have any effect, if at all? Well, you know, as far as women go and giving themselves each other, I guess I should say advice on relationships. I think there's, you know, a problem with that for the simple fact is women that have been jilted or alpha widowed or whatever you want to call it. Right. Passing that, oh, will you go girl, sort of attitude towards another woman that's asking for, well, what should I do when so-and-so is treating me this way? You know, I think that women giving each other advice on relationships, there's a fundamental problem in that because if the man is doing his job appropriately in the relationship, so to speak, leading his family, leading his woman, she shouldn't be asking for advice from any other girls, really.  Right. You know, really, and that's just the moral of the story. You know, just to circle around, we had some company over the holiday this past week, Thanksgiving, and you know, my wife and I, we lead a very different lifestyle compared to a lot of our peers, our family. You know, it's very much I'm the head of the house and that's just how it is. And you know, the man that was staying with us and his wife, you know, I was like, well, we're gonna do this, this, and this. And he goes, well, I need to ask, I need to ask her first before we can do that. And I'm like, and my wife just kind of like, she was in the middle of cooking and she just kind of looked at me kind of like, what in the world? You know, I think that fundamentally, women, it's programmed into them. So as the bitterness and feminism has taken over, them receiving information, it's just all toxic. You know, I think in a nutshell, 22 convention, if the platform is given an opportunity to flourish and grow with guys passing information out there and Anthony doing what he does with the 21 convention, I think, you know, it could take hold. You know, it's just kind of like a seedling. You know, you got to water it daily and it'll take root and grow.  And I think that's gonna be a common battle that we're gonna continue to fight. And I think that battle is actually gonna get harder before it gets easier. You know, I just, I have a lot of concern as far as that goes. You know, women in general, I believe are really crying out for strong men and they are really crying out for masculine leaders in their families. And these men are just unwilling to put the work in to get it done. To follow up what you're saying or feel like, what I was saying about the man is fair, we criticize women and rightly so, I think in the majority of cases today, with very modern stuff, right?  I don't think we have, we can't keep doing that definitely without providing a positive message in return. Like anything, something. And I said, I think that, yeah, I agree. I think it's a 22 convention, we have to seed it and grow it over time. And there's an opportunity and a chance that can take off and really have an impact. And if not, like, what are we gonna, how can we expect women to get any better in this shit show to stop if we don't do anything about it? It's just been, you know, in my lifetime, I'm pretty young still, but I've seen it do nothing to get worse. Worse and worse and worse every year and every decade that goes by. Feminism gets more crazy, drives them in more nuts, makes them more miserable. And that spills off into everything. It's our lives as men, to families and children and throughout the countries. So yeah, we have to provide something positive and do something about it. And that's what men do. Men lead, we take responsibility, we take action and we take authority too. And I think that's one of the issues that I'm driving a stake in very positively with having an all male speaking lineup, the mansplaining event of the century, as they were taking authority over where this needs to go. Not just, you know, man uptake responsibility. Okay, great. That also comes with authority.    I mean, it's just like, I was talking about it in his speech at the convention.  They have no real problems. American women, as Richard Nicolai, one of her speakers said, are the most overprivileged, overprotected organism in the history of this planet. They live in absolute peace, security, and safety, and comfort, and wealth, and prosperity that has never before been seen in history, specifically as Americans. Other Western nations have variations of that, but American in particular, they really get like a hefty dose of it.   Steve, what are your thoughts on women giving relationship advice to each other? Marycode 415, I see you in the chat. I'm gonna get to you here shortly. But Steve, what are your thoughts on women who give relationship? Because there are a lot of female relationship advice gurus out there.  It is clearly a means to an end. There are few female dating and relationship counselors who literally advise women to level up, level up, level up. They're not really interested in helping women improve to increase the quality of man that they can attract. But for the most part, most female YouTubers, they mean well, but the message, just like Phil said, is flawed. I'm interested to get your take on any flaws that you see in female relationship advice to both women and men. Yeah, first I wanna do say is Anthony and Phil was right and Phil was right.  And the thing about a woman is that a woman can teach a woman how to be more emotional. You see the thing about women is that they are based and built on emotion, not logic.  A man is what a man to the female coach is. And it seems, and I think most of those female coaches who say, well, I'm in a great healthy relationship is with some cuck or some cake, some cupcake in the background saying, yeah, honey, you go, you're number one. See, my man is the best and this is what you gotta do. So, you know, you got different kind of coaches out there.  You got those kind of women.  You have men coaches. I mean, there are also men coaches out there.  They are that trusting guy that is the, you know, the slime ball on the back end.    It's because you can't cook. It's because you gain weight.  You're okay. It's not your fault. It's their fault. So it's so many things that women are getting. And this is why I think what Anthony's doing is really great because it gives them the one thing that they don't get. And that is not only an honest perspective, but a perspective from real men that are not trying to sleep with them, not trying to collar them, but want to give them proper advice so they can grow and understand real men better. Because they've got a false, it's like a false man they see. They don't know real men. Let's go to the phone lines. Area code 415. You're online with the Red Band of Group. Go ahead. Hi, my name is Evan Weiss. And I want to ask you a question about why do you guys obsess over what women do? This is not to be disrespectful. This is not like trying to attack you guys, but why focus on women so much and obsess over the inner workings of what they do between each other? I can't imagine a silverback gorilla sitting around thinking all day about what a woman does. Shouldn't we be instead developing as men and just marking our own path and letting everybody else come in its wake of a path? And if you guys want more information about me, go to evanweiss.com. Does that make sense? There's a plug. Oh, come on, man.  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Hold on, hold on, let me, well, let me, well, I understand that, but, but Evan, let me ask you a question. Like you compared, you compare, and I agree with you 100%. You know, it is a good question. Why shouldn't we just focus on ourselves instead of trying to figure out the inner workings of women? One reason why, and Steve and I discussed this on the show with George yesterday, is the reason why 95% of men find this community is because of women. It's either sexual frustration or it's heartbreak. My wife cheated on me, my girlfriend cheated on me, I found out, I found out one of my kids may not be mine, et cetera, et cetera. But the further we go, I guess down the rabbit hole, so to speak, the better, the more we start to realize, just like, and Steve says this all the time, this really isn't about women, it really is about yourself. But here's the thing, you compare this to silverback gorillas, and I guess that is an apt analogy, but we're not gorillas, right? Like, okay, they have like what, 95 or 97% of our DNA, but we as humans, what differentiates us from most of the, all of the other species, why we're the dominant species, is our ability to reason.  And I think for a man to deny that some of the things that he does is for the, I guess the direct or indirect approval of women, I think it's disingenuous. Now I agree with you, I think that at some point you have to understand, hey listen, if I build myself up enough, just like Steve says once again, you start to understand that women are a perk. But the reason why sometimes we focus on women is to get the message out. A lot of guys come into this community wanting to learn and know about women. And so I don't wanna say we use it as a hook, but that's when most men come to this community, they're looking for guidance on how to understand women. We get them in here, we say, hey listen, we're gonna give you a little bit on how to understand women, but we also want you to understand that it really is about focusing on yourself. And I think that any man, just like I said a little bit earlier, any man who denies his desire to be with women on any level, sexually, maybe just a relationship's marriage, dare I say, I think that's being disingenuous. And I'm not calling you meathead red pill guy, but we have a lot of guys who find this community. Hold on, Evan, hold on, Evan, I'll let you talk when I'm done talking.  So that's where I come from as far as this is concerned. No, we're not silverback gorillas, and we never will be, but to deny that we want to be good with women, I think is disingenuous. They are our closest living animal, some somebody we could compare to, for real, I mean. I'd like to hop in on this, if everybody's good with it. So when I look at the convention, the 21 convention as well as the 22 convention, just like Donovan said with the Manisphere, most men find it because of issues of women. Some of the times other things around it, fitness, health, entrepreneurship, they get involved that way.  But here's what I do want to say. Male-female relationships are like the oldest thing in our species. They literally, as you're talking about gorillas and other primates, they predate our existence as humans. Male-female relationships have been evolving as humans for hundreds of thousands of years.  I think to ever take place in Western history, if not in the world.    Do you think maybe it's not other men in positions of power, if you will? Oh, absolutely, Evan, absolutely. Listen, it's not really women. It's really other men who are doing that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Now that's where you're wrong. Now we have shared responsibility, right? Obviously, and here's the thing, women can't do anything without men. Women can't even do feminism without men. If men had not helped out the grassroots feminist movement from the grassroots effort, then feminism would not be where it is today. So as men, I guess men who endorse feminism, we can't, they can't hide behind. Hang on a second, at this point, I'm wondering if we even disagree with this guy because we're building- We're arguing semantics, I think, I think- Hang on, we're building the mansplaining event of the century. Like, we're just talking to women and telling them what we honestly think that they need to hear to get better. Wait, say that again? Most of you guys block me, every time. Well, most of you guys block me. Most of this. I might make a comment from Twitter or Instagram. Well, I don't know what that has to do with this discussion, so please move on. Why do we care what you think? I mean, if you don't like it, leave. I don't understand these takes, man. To be fair, this is not, he's not the only person who thinks that it's the only dude, so- And this is a legit question that he's asking. He's asking a legitimate question. But again, to deny, and let me ask you something, Evan, do you like women? Like, do you seek out relationships of varying degrees with different women? Say again? 100%. Okay. 100%, I get eight, nine, and 10s. Okay, I don't need to hear what kind of women you- I just wanted to hear a yes or a no. So you admit, just like all of us up here, that we like women, we like how they smell, we like how they feel, we like being around them. All we're offering is just to help- I do not agree with you- Evan, I really need you to stop interrupting me. I promise I will give you the floor. But all we, what we're doing here is we're just helping men to understand how to not get got. Women used to be worth the trouble, but now there's so much they have to do and be and say to even get in the door, and guys are frustrated with that. And again, we all love women and we all want to pursue them. But to act like they don't matter, I think is disingenuous. Go ahead. Yeah, I don't think that they don't matter. I think that thinking about them or obsessing about them all day. So you think that this is an obsession? Seems like a waste of time.  I mean, I think that for some special people out there, I'm not into that stuff either. But I mean, for example, like I just said, I know you don't want to hear the fact that I routinely, since I was 18 years old, I'm always with eight, nine, and 10s. And what I've noticed is if I just live my life the way I live it with my goals, like you said, the- Hey man, photos are don't count, dude. Like, I've heard this bullshit a thousand times in the pickup artist community in the Manisphere, and most eight, nine, and 10s are like five, sixes, and sevens that I've ever seen from guys talking about this stuff. Bangin' real hot chicks like that out in the real world is not anywhere near as easy as you're talking about from what I've seen. And I've seen so many guys say this kind of stuff, man. It makes me feel a lot better. Receipts, bro. Receipts are nothing. No, it just makes me feel a lot better that you think it's a fantasy to get eight, nine, and 10s routinely. But that's just been my experience.   You're just some anon. Yeah, Phil wants to get involved. Phil, do you have anything to add to this?  Most eight, nine, and 10s are monetizing that. Well- My question is, are you simping for those eight, nine, and 10s? And that's all I got, really.  Not only are most eights, nines, and 10s monetized, most eights, nines, and 10s in this day and age, they work in the sex trade to some degree.  Looks beautiful women, especially the way Western culture is now, most women are overweight. And so that kind of raw feminine beauty, that comes at a premium. And eights- It's something like Donovan, this question- Just because of the way I look, I can make a pretty damn good living. Donovan, let's be real here too for all of us. Like, nines and 10s, legitimately, if they're like that empirically across a whole statistical spectrum, women date up.    Daughter, and she's, I'd say she's like a four at best.  They just assume cobertate, bang that chick. I don't know if he did or not. And the real question, maybe he did, maybe he didn't. What you guys need to ask is, would he benefit from it or not? Or what does he benefit more by? Trolling guys in the Manisphere by posting that picture or banging? Why would he bang before anyway, if you're calling her a four? This dude bangs like literal porn stars left and right.  I don't know what's going on with cobertating this four, but, and I'm not saying that you just contradict yourself. What I'm saying is that, and nobody's obsessing over women. Just because you talk about women, that doesn't mean you obsess over them. There are men out here who obsess over women 24, 7, 365. Clearly that's not what we do here. So for you to characterize this, this 22 convention as obsessing over women, that is grossly, that is grossly, that's grossly accurate, in my opinion. Well, your Instagram says make women great again, and there's like pink splotches all over the app, so. Why do you care? If you don't want to be going, game recognize game, and trust me, you started at 18, I started at nine. So what? Game recognizes game.   You're doing a show, man.  Why did you call the show? I called, cause I called.      What? The thing is this, man. This is one of the main problems with the manisphere, is that we have too much in-house hate. Like we're supposed to be on the same side, guys. Right? Women do it better, man. I mean, that's why feminism is one for so long. They cooperate a lot better.  We're not up here selling some Vegas party, or some Miami meetup, or we're gonna guarantee you're gonna being eights, nines, and tens, and these cheats. No, we're about building rock solid families, man. We're about building a rock solid frame so that you can use that in business, work, and if you want to do this, then with women. But for guys like this to call this show and say, why do you obsess with women and I being eights, nines, and tens, this is exactly why we do what we do. This guy, Evan, whatever the hell his name was, this is not the guy you wanna be, man. Like this is absolutely ridiculous. I don't understand why we have so... Here's the thing, Anthony, and I don't mean to bring up Ryan Stone's name, but he's a good friend of mine. He actually had a tweet the other day. He said, you know what? I miss the good old days when our biggest detractors were actually feminists. Anthony, it would appear that the most hate and the most disagreement we get are from other men. I'll never understand it. I'll never understand it. Look, man, I had my spat with Rolo this year, obviously, and some other crew, but mostly Rolo. And I have never seen such negativity in my 13 years of being an entrepreneur, of operating in the manosphere as a leader and an organizer that went his... Like, it's not his whole audience. It's like most of his guys that follow him are pretty normal dudes.  I got thousands of comments on Redman Group and 21 Studios that were disgusting.   They're still in pending review indefinitely. Like on the channel, it's insane. And I've never gotten the kind of vitriol from feminists.  So that's the issue.  And that doesn't exist.  I don't know, 4chan or something? Like 8chan? 4chan, I didn't agree with that. That's how far down, I mean, I'm not against 4chan, but like, you know, a lot of these dudes congregate there with legitimately have Asperger syndrome. And I got, I think a taste of that. And it was really surprising. I didn't expect that.   So yeah, I don't know what's going with that. I don't, and again, and I'm not being facetious here. I'm really, and I guess, well, let's go to that. Well, actually, I'm going to answer this question first. I had a story I wanted to talk about and I'll sort of pose it. Then I'll just go to the question. Before I move off from that call, dude, I know you hung up on them. I was pretty happy about that, but, so quick story, I got back from Poland, obviously, from the convention back in like August 1st or end of July or whatever it was. And I went from Poland to Chicago as a layover and then down to Florida. When I got back to America, I hadn't been gone out of the country for a while, but the minute I got back, there's a couple of things I noticed. The women were way fatter, a lot more consistently.  In Poland, women are dressing really nice just as a daily routine.  They looked a sheffield.    I'm engulfed in feminism. I realized and I value that these are my country women. These are my fellow Americans like it or not. And I want them to do better. I want women in America and the West to be great. They're not. Their competitors in Eastern Europe and South America and Asia outrank them and outcompete them 10 to one. And I don't think it's the same thing for the men.  They just have feminism and then nothing.  The workplace has been infected by feminism everywhere they go all the time. They might have a solid family foundation or a cultural thing like Mormonism if you're like in that specific part of the country.  So I really think that they need to do better. I want them to do better. I think it's completely normal to want your fellow Americans if they're female or male to do better. And this is the one, the only thing that's gonna exist right now to make that, to begin making that happen. And it's gonna take a long time. You know, make them great again.  It's gonna take decades. Feminism has been rotting femininity in this country for what, 100 years or more at this point. Right. It's not gonna heal itself overnight. It's gonna take a long concerted effort over many decades to make it happen, I think. The internet might speed that up a little bit. So we'll see, but yeah, it's a long journey. It's a long battle. The quest to make them great again or make women pregnant again. So circle back around to the question that I posed to you guys earlier. One of the most detrimental things that women do to themselves is taking relationship advice from their friends. Not their married friends who have good marriages. Not their friends who have been married for, you know, 10, 15, 20 years, have three, four kids together, good. No, they take advice from their slutty friends, their single friends. They're married friends who are cheating on their husbands. They're friends who are in a new relationship every other week. Now, the reason why they never take advice from women who are on good relationships or good long-term successful marriages is because the advice that they give isn't the advice that these girls wanna hear, right? Taking good advice as far as relationship advice, that's very, very difficult to do. This is for men and women.   That's not easy to do.  It's not easy to get up at four o'clock in the morning and go squat. It's not easy to try to go build a business. It's not easy to try to dominate life, right? Well, this is the same thing with women. Women, it's easy to take advice from their slutty friends because their slutty friends do what's easy. Well, cheat on your boyfriend to get his attention. Go ahead and start another Tinder account so that you keep that abundance mindset, right? Like she's asked her friends who are in good relationship advice before and the advice they gave her was difficult to hear and even more difficult to follow. Now she was told that in order to gain trust from her boyfriend that she needed to give her, do things like give him access to her phone and be open and honest about her whereabouts at all times. But girls are not trying to hear that and their dams are not trying to do it. So they end up getting advice from their other friends, the ones who cheat on their boyfriends and husbands. So I guess to sort of circle it all back, this is the reason why there are not going to be any female speakers at the 22 convention. Not that female speakers for the 22 convention would get up and say, hey, you know what, you need to cheat on your husband. But women are never team man, right? Women look out for each other and when it comes down to it, for women to really do what they really need to do to become good women for the men that they want, they can't get advice from each other because it's always a little bit sugar coated and that's not what we're trying to do here. Yeah, I mean, someday, yeah, I just know the first event, it's not going to have any women speakers at it. In the future, you know, we'll see. So I don't know for exactly on the same page a lot of the stuff, but generally I think we are. And that I agree with you fundamentally too that women give each other horrible relationship advice very consistently. I don't think it's universal though. And I think for example that a mother and a wife being a good example of her daughter is an excellent way to teach younger women how to be women, how to be feminine. That has deteriorated to the point of like total collapse at this point in this country. I know Tanner Guzzi, the chief patriarch and keynote speaker of the patriarch tradition coming up this year. He calls the rest of America the wastelands, I think, or the ruins, something like that.  And people are starting to wake up to it. The manosphere is just like the tip of the spear with that with men coming together and working at things. But the reason it's growing, it's been growing for decades at this point a well over 20 years, is because things are getting worse and worse and worse. Yes. If, you know, if male-female relationships of femininity, masculinity, men and women were a healthy place in this country, the manosphere would be very small to non-existent. You wouldn't need it. It's, I mean, people call it a response to feminism and I don't know if that's really accurate. I think the manosphere is a response to very severe dysfunction between men and women in this country.  Right. And it's a very complex thing. I mean, you're talking about social movements and family and culture and political thing and all kinds of illegal stuff, divorce court, divorce rape, all this stuff. And as well as sexual strategy, intersexual dynamics and all this stuff, it's been going on for decades and decades and decades and it's getting worse and worse and worse. So something has to be done. I think the manosphere is a very positive, healthy response to that. And I think it's very natural for men to want to teach women how to be better. Any guy leading a relationship is doing that. All three of you in relationships and all three of you make your woman great again every day, make them better and better and better. And so I think it's very natural for men to want to, like that guy on the phone call is the opposite of that, I think, in the end. He does not feel a push to make women great again. It sounds like he's annoyed by the idea. So you were asking him, I think, if he likes women, that's probably a pretty good question to ask. I like him a lot and I want to seem to do great. Like I understood what he was asking, but his intentions were disingenuous. He didn't ask, he didn't really want the answer. He did what a lot of women do, which is make a statement by asking a question, right?  Are you even sexually attracted to women? She doesn't really want to know the answer. She's just asking you, she's asking you the question because she's making a statement. That guy said, well, why are you guys focusing on women? He didn't want the answer.  And I bang super hot eight, nine, and 10s like butter every day. Like, listen, like women, guys who come on this show and my show, I bang eight, nine, and 10s, that you are literally telling us that you are not good nor are you experienced with women because Phil pulled this card right off the bat and said that 99, or I'm gonna put the number to it, better than nine out of 10 women who are eight, nine, and 10s in the Western world, which that guy is from, just given his American accent, they monetize their beauty. And if they're monetizing their beauty, you're either simping or you're tricking or both. So I'm not trying to, I don't need dudes to brag to me. And then Anthony pulled this card and said, show me receipts. That's when he got noticed to be quiet. And then Steve called him a cake and then that's when he got all flustered. So I got receipts for the ticks I bang, man. I got a lot of them. I don't share them in public, but you guys seem... Oh, I do. I do. Listen, go to my social media. You got all my receipts.   Let's go to the phone lines.  Area code 347. I can hear my name or I can hear myself faintly in the background. Okay, area code 347, going once? Going twice? Hello. Oh, I knew he would do that. He said, he said, hello, right at the very end.   Let me ask you, I'm gonna pose another question to the group.  Evan, you know, ibing9sandtends.com that I pay for, whatever. Phil, why do you think that the Manisphere now gets so much in-house hate? Why do men seemingly hate on other men more now than even feminists do?  They see the next man improving his situation. He's building a business or he is getting himself in shape.  He's taking his life back from the lie that's been told. Oh, be weak. Don't run your family. Don't run your house. You know, so, you know, when men see other men doing good secretly, in my opinion, this is purely my opinion now. A lot of the guys that I used to associate with, you know, as I started improving myself and improving my physique, changing the relationship status and the way things are run in my home, the way I raised my daughter, a lot of these people kind of started secretly hating. And that's okay. You know, I'm fine with that today. You know, I think that as, you know, they get, there's almost a level of jealousy there. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like Evan there calling in and trying to get some validation from you gents or, and us, well, I bang, you know, nines and tens or whatever, you know? I mean, he's trying to figure out a way to get that validation. Right.  I can't figure it out. You know, Ed Latimore said, you know, the game is to be sold, not told. Right. You need to get it together, man. If you can't figure it out, get someone to help you figure it out.  And so I think these men that generally can't stand the next man moving up in his life are secretly haters. And that's what I think it's about. Excellent, man. I would agree. And before we go back to the phone lines, I'm gonna give Eriko 347 another opportunity here to redeem his or herself. I think that there are two general responses when men see other successful men. I'm the type of person, if I see a guy who's in better shape than me, like that motivates me, right? It almost makes me wanna go up to and be like, yo, like how do I get traps like yours? You know, how can I get that one rep max on the deadlift or the squat? How can I get, I mean, I'm just the kind of guy, I'm not one to hate on other men. If a man has something I want, I'm gonna get a hold of that, do be like, yo, how can I have what you have? But then there's another side of people who hate on men. When men hate on other successful men, they are quite literally telling you, I want what you have, but I cannot or will not work for it. And I think the fact that they're aware of their own, it's not an aptitude. Any man can have anything any other man can have.  But if you hate on other men for being successful, you are quite literally telling the world that you want what he has, you're just not able or willing to do the work. And to me, that's a female characteristic. Yeah, Donovan, you're not a gamma male. And I think what you're really referring to is like there's a rising presence of gamma males in the man's sphere, if you wanna go down that kind of route. Yeah, and you're hitting the nail on the head, these losers and these haters. Rather than try to ask for help and be a little bit humble or recognize where their own weaknesses are, as well as their own strengths or whatever, right? What can they offer? They don't wanna do that. That takes honesty, that takes a level of masculine vulnerability between other men. Yes. In public or in private. And a lot of guys are just pussies, man. Now they've been infected by feminism and political thinking and shift for decades. You know, my generation is millennials. I'm the first generation I think to have multiple generations of feminism bred into family culture and the wider culture around me and having grown up around that stuff. And that's why I think in particular, you know, I'm millennial young men, but millennial women I think are almost completely gone. That's a generation of women that are just completely just fucked. And that's what single motherhood I think is focused on right now. That's where it's highest.  Like I hope to God, you know, I'm not religious but it's as a figure of saying or as figure of speech that the 22 convention helps women heal and become great.   That's, that's, that's, that's like Stiffenwall in the US, man. What if you don't have babies by the time you're 40, what are you gonna do for the next 40 years of your life as a woman? Nothing.  Like it's crazy.  Like it's unnecessary. It's disgusting. It's horrifying.  Go ahead Steve. The thing that happens here is that a lot of these young boys are trying to do it. I think they're trying to defend mommy because they feel like we're attacking their mothers because it was their mothers that gave them inconsistent discipline. It was their mothers that taught them how to be emotional. It was their mothers that took away and not showed them boundaries. It was their mothers that taught them not to have coping skills and all things like that. So when they get around real men because if they could look behind this curtain of us four men, we uplift each other. We don't tear each other down. If somebody's doing something, we pat you on the back and keep it moving. And that's how it is. But if you're on the other side of the street and you don't understand how men function, what happens is you tend to act more like a woman and you get more into your feelings and you get mad because you wanna be part of the cool guys. And I was saying with cool guys. I'm saying you wanna be part of the men but you can't fit in because you still got your biblical core attached to mommy. Oh, real talk, man.  Dude, Steve always puts that eloquently. It all comes from that feminine mindset. Big thanks goes out to Octavius Mewborn with the $10 Super Chat says, dudes pillow talk to banana goblers about other men all day every day. Yeah, it is beyond me. Hashtag banana goblers, you guys can look over here.<PHONE_NUMBER>, that's the number to call if you wanna get in on the show. Ericko 347, you're back in the queue.  The number to call if you wanna get in on the show. All right, that's it. Ericko 615, you're on live with the red man group. Go ahead. Hi guys, great show. So my question is, so when you guys use the phrase the man is the head of the household and women that grow up in a Christian environment, they understand what that means, but we have a lack of Christianity. We have a lack of motherhood and women. So when you guys say the man is the head of the household, a lot of women seem to like recoil from that. So could you please explain for women that are listening what that means in terms of Christianity and that, you know, you know what I mean, sorry, go ahead. No, no, I understand. I'll actually be the first to sort of touch on this. You don't have to have a religious household to know that the man is the head of the household. See, here's the thing. This is what makes the human species just remarkable. Nobody has to teach us how to lie, cheat and steal, right? Like we're born with an inherent understanding of the difference between right and wrong. We're also born with the inherent understanding of the difference between males and females. Men are bigger, faster, stronger. Men are, you know, women are smaller, much more aware, perceptive, whatever the case may be. So I don't think that you have to have a religious household for the man to be a head of the household. But I would actually say this also to you too, Collar.  The church now seems to be almost on board with feminism, not because they want to, almost because they feel like they have to. Because so many women out here, just like you said, Collar, they recoil at the thought of the man being the head of household and churches say, oh, wait a minute, it's not good business. It's not fashionable to teach these women out here to follow their men. So now even churches are falling victim to that. So Phil, I don't know where your religious loyalties lie, but what are your thoughts on man being the head of the household as it relates or does not relate to religion? So with it relating to religion, so we used to go to church quite a bit and we're Methodist and when we joined the church, when we moved to where we live now, it was led by a predominantly male group of gents. We had a pastor and we had an associate pastor and then we had the music leader, they're all men. And then the pastor, he moved on to become a deacon or a bishop or whatever. And then we had another pastor step up and then when he stepped up, two women became the associate pastors. And then the music director was accused of some sort of sexual misconduct. He said something inappropriate if I'm not mistaken. And then he got wiped out. And so now you have three female leaders and one man. So, and then that shift and it's interesting, my wife and I were sitting there and just watching the shift in church from it moved away from the whole reason of going to church and to more of a social discussion of what's going on politically and whatnot. And so we just kind of step back from that. Now, do I believe? Sure, I do. And as far as our household goes, it's interesting that the caller had mentioned, head of household in relations to Christianity.  The thinking is, is being married, I dated my wife now for three years before I married her. I really put her through the paces. And the example that I'm trying to get at here is, I told her, in the very beginning, I said, I'm an asshole, I'm not easy to live with. I have some pretty big base requirements. If you wanna- You sound just like me. Oh my God. And she goes, well, that's fine. And there's been some course corrections throughout our relationship because we're all human, we all make mistakes. And I've made mistakes, she's made mistakes. But the narrative still falls back to, I am the managing partner of this house. So I own 51%, she owns 49% of this corporation. I make all decisions. So I akin to it to where I'm the judge and my daughter and my wife are attorneys. They bring me information, I make a decision. And that's how we run our home. The prerequisites in my home, as far as being head of household, I mean, the list can go on forever. But I think people that wanna be married, and well, I need to ask my wife first. I mean, that's not what the woman wants. My wife is happier when I take control of everything. When I handle everything, right here on my shoulders, every bit of it, the bills, everything. She's a stay-at-home mom, you know? And it works great. And the example that she sets for our 15-year-old daughter, which I'm hoping that we'll bring up later and raising girls in this current political and feministic line is big, but to me, but being a head of household, you don't necessarily have to be Christian to do that.   I'd like to hop in on this after Phil here. I got something, I think pretty self-follow-up.  Anyway, so this caller is a really interesting question and I really like what Phil was saying here too. So first of all, I appreciate that Christianity has a patriarchal focus and teaches women a lot of positive things. I think that's fantastic. And that has been falling out in the West and that's been contributing or at least co-occurring with the rise of feminism. And that's toxic and unhealthy for everyone. At the same time, I agree with what Phil was saying too that, let me say this, all the Abrahamic religions as far as I know are patriarchal to some significant extent. They're all pretty similar like that. And we're seeing, you know, all these things that then kind of die out in the West in a large part. But I also agree with, you know, very importantly what Phil was saying that we need a secular version. Women shouldn't need, let me put it this way, any young American woman or young American man should be able to have kind of like a guide stone or a direction life to head, simply as a man or as a woman, separate from what you believe about politics, what you believe about religion or anything of morality and all the stuff. These things are related obviously, but there's a website actually, it's pretty cool. It's called secularpatriarchy.wordpress.com. He's been blogging in the Manisphere for a long time.  And it's kind of about the rise of patriarchy in the West and how that needs to happen separate and he's Christian. He's an absolute like die-hard Christian, but it needs to happen in fatherhood and patriarchy and masculinity and all these very positive things. This needs to happen for everyone. It doesn't matter if you're Christian or Jewish or Muslim or whatever, like this is a very positive thing. Men being men, women being women, men leading their families, this is fundamentally positive. And as Phil is saying, this is what women respond to. They want you to take the lead. They want you to be dominant.  They want you to be a man. They can't handle it. They need you to do these things too. And on top of it, it makes them happy and wet and horny and all these things. Like I say with Steve all the time, I joke that women are happiest making babies and cookies. That's right. I'm not kidding. They're happiest making babies and cookies. Most for the vast majority of them. The leadership. This is why they test your manhood even in relationships.  It's running on autopilot. Okay, I gotta make sure this guy is still fit to lead. Let me test it. That's how it works. Absolutely.  Call me misogynistic. I could care less. Hashtag misogny. Right?  Hashtag happy.  I'll give you the final word here on 615. Well, 615 would all do respect. This is why we have in the conversation because as a woman, what you think, we understand what you're thinking, but your thoughts are not what men do. As a man, even if you look at nature, and again, I'm not, if you're a Christian or you're religious and you wanna be, that's fine, that's what you wanna do, but it doesn't make you a man. It just makes you a religious person. And religion to me has nothing to do with what I stand on as a man. My woman has to do what I deem is worthy of my last name. And because she went after my last name and because she went after my ring and my time and my respect, that means she's playing by my rules. It's not a dictatorship, it just is. It's just that she knows that I'm, that she's a Williams at the end of the day. She is the luckiest person in the world to take my name. So what she does with it is very important. And that's gonna be the difference between her keeping the name and her losing name. That's it. Okay, let's go back to the phone lines. Let's go to area code 916. 916, you're on live with the Red Man Group. Go ahead. Hello, how are you gentlemen doing today? Doing good. Wonderful. I did want to agree with one of the comments you guys made earlier about women not needing to take advice from other women. In my personal situation in the past, my ex took advice from her friends and it caused the relationship to end. She thought she could get financial gain in the end. It didn't quite work out for her and I ended up getting 50-50 custody of my son. So it really worked out great for me. Since then I've met a really nice lady, but in the United States, here in the West, how do we make women great again when they have no incentive to actually behave? I mean, the woman you can marry today, she can change her mind three to six years down the line and if she wants to start displaying bad behavior and leave, I mean, there's really nothing that can really be done about it. Hang on, hang on. I can respond to this woman right off the bat.    She didn't want her family to know that and guess what? There's a truth, there's no defamation.   Shame is not a negative thing or at least long term. It's a very positive thing. It's a healthy thing.  So, and that's an example.  Ironically, it's a very brazen kind of speech I gave on at two hours almost, but yeah, there are consequences in that case. Social shame and I brought that out at a level that I think is unique on YouTube and on the internet. I don't know if another speech like it anywhere in the world.  I think it'll probably hit a million views someday at this rate, this rate, it doesn't get banned off YouTube. So there are consequences, man.  And I've gotten a lot of support for it since then.  I mean, I know you care about her, but part of the sacrifice is standing by your principle. She wants to have an attitude. She's got one, but hold on, one thing I wanna say is, what you failed to mention in all this young sir is that you allowed your woman to do the most disrespectful thing and let's put your business on the street and allow her friends to dictate your relationship instead of checking that behavior. This is the end result of not checking it, man. Go ahead, Collar. You can respond to that. Well, in my situation when she's misbehaved, I ended up just leaving and going after 50-50 custody of my son. And you got it though, right? You got the 50-50 custody? Oh yeah, yeah. Okay, good, okay, good, good. Since then she tried to come back and I said, I'm not dealing with that anymore. I already said what I'm gonna do and you don't wanna do it, so I'm not dealing with that. So I really didn't care that she left, other than the fact that I just didn't wanna lose custody of my son and since I won in court, things have been great. Let me ask you a question here. What exactly, what was the bad advice that your now ex-wife got from her friends? Do you remember what bad advice that she got? Yeah, she wanted to move into a $350,000 house and we had a home that was already paid off. We weren't married, so that kind of made the process a little bit easier for me to kind of flip out of there. But I said, you know, look, this house is already paid for, it doesn't make sense. She wanted to move and I said, all right, we'll go move, I'm not coming with you. So that's pretty much how it ended. Okay, that's with the mortgage. Yeah, that makes sense. I'm gonna circle back to your first question or your first statement. I heard that you said in there, and correct me if I'm wrong here, you said there's nothing that can be done. You said, how can we make women great again? And you said that there's nothing that can be done to improve women's behavior. Am I mischaracterizing or misquoting that? No, there's things that can be done, but I said there's no incentive for them to behave. Oh, gotcha.   Yeah, yeah. So here is, and again, I don't wanna be counter, I don't wanna be counterproductive or counterintuitive, but a woman has to, you said women don't have incentive to be with men. Sure they do. And that's what starts with you, right? My girlfriend, she has a lot of incentive to be with me, right? You need to make yourself, and again, don't do this for the sole purpose of being attractive to women.  But if a woman who is with you doesn't see any incentive to be with you, at some point she'll find an incentive not to be with you.   Yeah, listen, don't get me wrong, man, like your ex-wife is bad and she's terrible and all this other kind of stuff, but it's a two-way street, because if a woman really loves and wants to be with you and if you are worth being with, then guess what?  Guess what? That's a lot of trouble for her to do, but because it was worth it for her to spend time with me, she did whatever she had to do. Women, people, men, women, if they really want something, they'll do what it takes to get it. That's really what it comes down to. And I'm not trying to bag on you because, dude, I wasn't a bad marriage too, like my wife was a terrible wife, but I wasn't really worth much. This is why she acted up.  And I'm not saying that your woman acted up because you were a bad man. No, your woman acted up because you didn't require her to act right. And I think that's where, I think that's where a lot of men need to understand. Okay, women are poorly behaved, yes, but women only do what you allow them to do to you. Does that make sense, Caller? Yeah, that definitely makes sense. I mean, since then, I mean, I've been in a relationship the last year with a Latina lady and she's been great. She's completely a 180 different from the woman I was with long term, but I did tell her, yeah, I'm not getting married in this system just because the risk is just too high. If things change down the line, I don't want to be paying for you. Right, right. Well, thanks for calling me. Donovan, if I can hop on with this caller too. I know he's just getting off or whatever, or if he does or he doesn't, it's no big deal, but one of the distinctions I didn't hear him make is that you have two kinds of incentives. You have positive and negative, right? Right, minimum. So I think what he's referring to is that there's a lack of negative, negative, external, social, cultural, legal incentives for women to act up. Whereas there used to be a lot. If you got divorced 100 years ago, it wasn't like now, I think it is, right?  So that is new, that's not normal and that's something that feminists and women have pushed for for a long time to eliminate, mitigate, or reduce negative incentives or bad behavior. And then also, we've seen also, they still benefit from being our men as a positive incentive there, if you are a great man, but they've also been working hard to replace men and use government as a bigger alpha daddy instead. Single motherhood would be the most extreme example that I think the single motherhood welfare state. So there's a lot going on and it's like, his question really is huge. It's like, how do you undo these catastrophic changes that women and feminists have done to the culture and legal systems and 50 states and all this stuff for decades, decades upon decades?  That's what we do. And I think the founding of this country is a much greater challenge than it will be to destroy feminism and build a more positive masculine future where men and women actually get along. Men act like men and women act like women, the vast majority of the time. Right, right. Phil, let me ask you a question because you and I seem to be like-minded in a lot of different ways. The long and the short of my relationship is I met my girlfriend almost four years ago and when I met her, I wasn't looking for a relationship, she was looking for guidance. And what I did is I quite literally trained her for a year and one half, 18 months, just like you said, put her through her paces and I made her earn my commitment. I made her earn this. I want you to talk to my guys, talk to the audience about the importance of making a woman earn your commitment. In Steve's case, earn your last name because most people, specifically women, they only value what they're required to work for.  No, no, no, no, no. You said, listen, man, it's subconscious, okay, this is gonna be a process. She seems to have what it takes on the outside, but let's see who she really is. Talk to my audience about, or talk to the audience, rather, about the process that you took in terms of vetting your woman and getting her to where she needs to be to be a fit at-home mom. So when we started dating, she was working full-time, she had a really good job actually and I'm on business, so we're doing okay. She had a condo downtown and I was, we just started dating. And as we progressed, I noticed certain things. I really enjoyed being around her. The time we spent together was great. There were certain attributes. I was like, okay, this makes me a little nervous because once again, I divorced a complete chameleon. We're talking my ex-wife. Yeah, man. Man, it was like one minute she was okay and we got married and it was like she, but it was like, it was crazy. You know what I mean? That's a whole nother story. I feel like I have very similar experiences. This is weird talking to you. It's almost like talking to you.  It's all right, man. But the, so as we started, as we progressed, we dated for a good, I would say almost a year before she moved in full-time. We were staying at the condo or we were staying here at the house and she moved in and I'll never forget, she's probably watching right now which is gonna be great. But when she moved in, the first time we went to the grocery store, she just kinda haphazardly threw the food in the refrigerator. I'm like, oh no. Nope.  No, they can't go like that. And so this is just one instance. I was like, no, it needs to be this way. So we had a few scrapes over that and guess what? Now I don't even put the groceries away. She takes care of it. I bring them in from the vehicle. There you go. She puts them away. Oh my God. Another thing. She's really good at ironing and clothes which is good. So like I'm always like looking right. You know what I mean? So I don't have to worry about that. And the next thing was, it's just kind of like as we progressed in our relationship, I laid out my expectations. You know, you don't leave the house unless you're put together. You're representing me. That's right. Okay. So my daughter has to be at school at six 30 in the morning, seven in the morning. My wife is dressed and ready for her day at that time. She gets up in the morning and while I'm getting up and getting ready to go train, she's like, would you like your espresso in the bedroom or would you like it in the kitchen before you leave? You know, and over time, you know, in working with her, she has developed these skills on her own to where, you know, she is trying to make, I guess you would say in my life easier so I can do the things I need to do to make our life better. There you go, man.  It's transactional. It absolutely is.  That's right.  And she has hers. So as we've went through the years, it's almost now to where it's second nature, you know? Phil, with that transactional thing, I think a lot of people hear that we're transactional and they make it like this dirty thing, but really it's an exchange of values. Of course.   You want her in your life and it makes your life better. So I think you might have a woman getting along, is this a value exchange? And it doesn't have to be sugar babies, it can be a happy, healthy marriage and family. That's right and we're constantly working together to combat all the things that we face on a day to day. So the moral of the story is, we're getting pulled, as human beings, we're getting pulled over here, over here, over here, over here.  That's the first thing. My way or you gotta go? Covertain is a great thing, comply or goodbye. That's right. And the second thing is we're a frigging team. That's right. We gotta combat this. If I'm gonna leave my house and swing the sword, you gotta make sure we don't get flaked. That's right. And that's how we run our house. And it's interesting because a lot of the like-minded individuals that I speak to, I have to go to 21Con or I'm in the fraternity of excellence or I have digital friends. I mean, a lot of the people around us do not live like that. No. It's like, oh, I gotta ask the boss before I can do anything.  I can't go smoke cigars. Man. So it's just really, really different. And I think that as far as that goes, and it translates over to my daughter, she's 15 and so she's watched this play out since we've been together. We've been coming up on 11, 11 years or 10 and a half. And the moral of the story is that precedent is set with my child now. Right. And so I've broke that chain to the point to where her standards are set and she's looking for a guy like me.   That's evidence right there. That's evidentiary, you know, so. I think not only that, that's biology. Now, you had me, Phil, up until you talked about ironing and getting up early because Devin's good at a lot of things, ironing and getting up early, not one of them. So that's where you and I, she brings other things to the table. Let's just put it that way. But I think Phil brings up an excellent point and I'm actually gonna come to Steve with this. And the problem with men and women of all ages, really, I don't think this is a generational thing at all, men wanna be the boss without the cost.  If you're gonna be the boss, guess what?  She's gonna ask you, what are we having for dinner? Where are we? Can you repeat that part? The boss without, that's a really good way to put it, boss without the cost, was it? You can't be the, they say it all the time. It costs to be the boss. Guys wanna be the boss without any of the cost and it's the same thing with women. They want all the benefits. They wanna be able to go out here and get a high value guy without doing what's necessary to get that high value guy. They think that just having two X chromosomes is enough and it's not enough and that's why they're disappointed on the other side of the coin.  They get into what they believe is an alpha relationship. God, why is my girlfriend asking me this all the time? Because she deferred to you, my friend. If you want her to submit to you, submission comes with domination. And here's another, here's where else we part ways here, Phil. This is not a democracy in this household. This is 100% a dictatorship. I own 95, I mean 95% shareholder. Devin is a fight. Now, of course I exaggerate for effect and I say that tongue in cheek, but that's the way it is. I'm gonna come to Steve here because something that you and Steve have in common in your relationships is that you both married women who were well off financially when you met them. Steve White, Steve's wife was very well off financially when they met and he was a high enough value male for her to give that up to be with him. So Steve, talk to us about how that happened. Well, it happened like all relationships have happened.  Everybody wants to say they want certain things, but you put a woman in front of them, it tells you the truth about what they really are. I didn't really care about where she came from, how much money she had and all this other stuff. Matter of fact, when I first met her, I asked her, I tried to take her out, she said no to me. I told her I don't ask twice and I ain't talked to her for months until she came back to me. So, but the thing about it was she knew what she got with me and with a lot of guys, like I always say, you know, she saw vision in me. She saw a man that saw the big picture. She saw a man that sets direction, saw a man that's transparent, I didn't lie, I didn't manipulate, I didn't deceive. I was founded and had a strong foundation of me.  I was all together and the thing that women love is a all together man. They don't want somebody, they gotta tell what to do like you see on these Suckermy Season commercial ads now that are making men look like fools and stuff. But like you were saying, for a lot of guys out there, you wanna play the game, but you don't even know the rules of the game to even play it. For a lot of these guys out there, they're scared of women. I've always said that. A lot of guys are scared of women, so that means they're automatically walking on eggshells.   These are the things she wants because it goes back to nature. Things that women love animal, an animal kingdom they love about the alphas is the dominance and being able to procreate with someone who can create a legacy of strong kids. That's what women want. Now, what some women will do is they will marry what I call an alphabeta and that's kind of like I would say a zebra in the animal kingdom is an alpha until you put it up against a lion, then the dynamics change. So for a lot of guys out there, they've gotta stop pretending that there's something and be something. Let me pose, and that was very well said. I'm glad that you put it that way because guys have to understand you have to put in the work. Anthony, I'm gonna start with you on this one. I see comments in the chat all the time.  One guy put in my chat and I'm not hating on this guy, but it says are these guys jokers or something, they're trying to make us think there's hope with women. And you wanna know something, Anthony? I can't blame him for that. Just given the state of today and sometimes I go off on these guys, but sometimes I have to slow down, I have to cool my hands off and say, do you wanna know something? Their frustration is coming from somewhere. There really are men out here who have given up. In their minds, it's not even worth it. What do you say to guys who have completely given up on relationships on any level with women? So the first thing is I agree with you that there's a reason this is happening. I mean, there's a reason these guys are doing that and I respect those reasons. Even if I don't agree with what they wanna do, how they wanna live their life, some of it I might. I think a lot of MiG-Town gets, they get along the least with the rest of the Manusphere. They're kind of like the outcast of the group, the Red Head Stepped Child, I think, of the physical tribes. But I think what you're referring to basically is a sociological framing or a view of that issue that men are doing this. MiG-Town is not a small community. It's got hundreds of thousands of men involved with it and taking its kinds of actions. And there are reasons that they're doing that.   Culture has changed, times have changed. Men and women, how we interact have changed, especially in America and in the West, right? And there's big problems with this. So I respect that MiG-Town exists and I think there are very legitimate reasons that it exists for specific segments of the population. Guys are, Socrates is called MiG-Town, the bottom tier of the male SMV, out of the male section marketplace. And so this is, I think there's different reasons they choose this lifestyle. But yeah, as far as guys doing that, what do I say to them? I go back to the founding of the United States is how far back I go with it.  They think that both personally, I think, in many, most cases obviously, but then also they think that wider to culture and society and stuff and it's bullshit.  That was a huge masculine challenge that those men had to take and that those women at the time had to support their men in doing.  So what they went through in the founding of this country, the founding generation of America was exponentially, I think, more difficult than it is to make women great again. Not to underscore that this is a huge undertaking that's very difficult. And I do understand why he believes, you know, they believe the situation is dire and hopeless. I don't think they're right, they're wrong, but it's not the end of the world to think that way. And you need to really get, what they're lacking is perspective.   I'll just look at World War II and nevermind World War I and then the wars before that.   So I don't mean to be too flippant about it, but... No, I understand. Yeah, it could be in pussies, man. Like, this can be done.  As a group, as men, as fathers, as leaders, as statesmen, as business leaders and entrepreneurs and beyond.  This country is still thriving and alive and doing pretty well, in my opinion, in a lot of different ways in the West. And we can turn the ship around culturally and it's gonna be probably a little painful. There's gonna be a lot of, you know, look at feminists now, they scream in the streets over anything, right? Right. President Trump, Donald Trump wins presidency.  But whatever, we can win. Like, this is a winnable fight and harder wars of many kinds have been fought before us. And we do not, don't give up.  Why would you do that? Right.  Don't do it. You can win. I would agree with that. And I think that's something else to keep in mind is that we're in a generation where people expect things to be easy, right?  The juice isn't worth the squeeze. The system is hard to fight, et cetera, et cetera. And to that I say, anything worth fighting for is not going, it's not going to be easy. Of course, they're a butthole. Well, women aren't worth fighting for. Sure they are. It is evolutionarily and biologically necessary, right? Like we can't, what we have to understand is that as bad as women are, they are a necessary evil.  And no matter what you say to us or in the chat, you still want to be in a relationship with a woman no matter what you say to us. And I would say this, and I'm going to come to fill with this.  I think those are the guys in the most pain. I think those are the guys who want relationships with women the most because their lives really were, if their lives really were about or not about women, then why even come in here and talk all day about how they're done with women, right? Yeah, exactly. My thought process on that is, when it comes to women, you're absolutely correct they're a necessary evil. As a man, you leave behind what? Right. Your legacy. Yes. Your legacy. Your seed is your legacy. So it's up to you to be the man that can land a decent woman. The problem is is these guys, these men today, they're like a bunch of lawn chairs. They're easy to fold up and put away. The work that I do, I mean, I own construction companies, I own two of them, okay? We do man's work. And when people don't show up, I gotta do the work. That's right. I don't care. I'm gonna do it. You know what? A lot of guys, you know, oh, I'm too tired. I can't go train. I can't do this. I can't do that.  Be a man. Right. And that's really where I'm at with a lot of guys that I deal with on the day to day. They make excuses and I say, well, you don't want it bad enough then.  You know, you're gonna do what it takes. You're gonna put the hard work in. I don't care what it is. Anthony's absolutely right. The worst fight before this little skirmish we got here, par in comparison. Oh, and that's what this is. This is a skirmish. This is nothing compared to the revolution, man. Yeah, exactly. All of them.  Forget that, man. You need to put the work in. You gotta figure out a way to find quality of women. And the only way you're gonna find a quality of women is to be a quality man. And that's just the point. They have a lot of options. I mean, it's not just like the quality of women in America I think has gone down and that's part of what's going on is the average dude can't find something. In addition to all this propaganda they've been fed throughout their life about how to basically be in a feminine, you know, fake man. But I will say, first of all, you know, they can always expatriate. They can go to other countries and find a wife there. And that's one of the methods of doing that, right? Private marriage and prenups and things like that can help as well. Like I did in my case with the private marriage. I didn't do a prenup. I avoided the whole thing legally in the first place in terms of trying to build a family and stuff like that. What I will say to you though is that from a, anyone should, I have some of the books in the background here, but Nicholas Nason-Taylub is an author that's written several books, Fooled by Randomness, The Black Swan, things like that. And there are major events that are going to happen in the coming years and decades as they always have that we don't see coming and we don't even see, we're not even aware of them even remotely that they're coming in front of us.  I didn't. Nobody, nobody. Oh, it's not gonna happen. I was like, wait a minute, he's not, is he, he's, I couldn't believe it, I couldn't believe it.  We're in the middle of it, still, right? So that's just one example of that though, but look at things like, for example, we might see the sexual marketplace fundamentally change in a positive direction. If men get access to really good, what do they call it, that vasogel or what not vasogel? Male birth control. Male birth control, but a gel that gives men control of the reproductive ability without getting vasectomy or wearing a condom. So that would be a huge push in the right direction against female birth control that's been around since the sixties or whatever, that I think's been a major contributor along with feminism until why women are acting up the way they are today. So there's all kinds of technology and stuff like that that we're not even, some of that we're aware of, obviously, as we were talking about it, but there's stuff like that that we're not even aware of yet that's gonna happen eight years from now or 12 years from now or whatever the fuck that are probably gonna have, some of it will have negative changes against us maybe, more technology and stuff that might further screw things up, but some of it might also be a lot better at things we're not seeing yet. And that's why you need to keep calm, keep the fight on and start pushing in the right direction. And 22 convention to make them great again is a really good example that it's the best thing I can do that I fucking know of that's what I'm fighting for at this point, alongside the 21 convention and everything else that we do with the red man group and stuff. Anthony, I think that, I think at the end of the day, and I'm not trying to compare this to, you know, the people who fought in the revolution, I'm not trying to compare us to that at all, but I think what men of this generation, men who are alive now, men in the manosphere, we're gonna have to wrap our minds around, we're gonna have to resolve ourselves to the fact that we're not gonna be alive to reap the benefits of what we're doing today. Because what we're doing today, it's gonna take a long time to take effect. At some point, feminism is going to be vanquished. Like it has to, that's just the natural order of things. Men have and always will be the dominant sex. Right now, men are being controlled by women, but at some point, somebody actually said it in here, at some point, natural selection is naturally going to weed out all of the beta bitch boys and all of the purple-haired cat-covered feminists, right? Feminine women want to breed with masculine men and vice versa, so at some point. That's actually a really good example, I forgot to mention, Donovan, that most feminists, these ones that are avoiding motherhood and having children. Nobody wants to put babies in them in the first place. Well, they're also, yeah, exactly, but what you're saying too is that they're weeding themselves out of the gene pool and along with weeding themselves out, they're weeding out their ideas.  That's one of the things that's happening and we're in the middle of it. We don't see the outcome of that yet, 10 years from now, 20 years from now. We just see it right now and that's growing as these millennial checks have one kid or zero and all that, so. No, I agree with you. I think that, and I never thought of it that way until you just said it, with these militant feminists taking themselves out of the gene pool, what they're doing and let's talk about what it is. A lot of these guys who are swearing off women and, oh, I don't want to have any, okay, that's fine. What you're doing, it's just like this guy said in the chat, what is happening is the inferior specimens are weeding themselves out of the gene pool, right?  Thank God he can't reproduce. The militant feminist who is always on birth control, she got the Norplant 13 years ago and still have an unprotected sex. She has blue hair, she's 37 years old. Thank God she's never gonna have kids, right? At some point, the natural selection is going to weed these people out. But like I said, we're not gonna be around. Dude, I'll be six feet under by the time what we're doing today really starts to take hold and take effect. And I'm- Maybe, maybe not, you know? There's definitely a chance that you're hitting the nail on the head, but also not. I think the internet has really changed. There's been so much occurring in the West and in the world since like, with the rise of sexual liberation, bullshit, feminism, birth control, the internet.  Like, so things, I don't know, Donovan. I mean, you're older than me, but you're not that much older and we might see some really positive changes. Who knows, maybe 20 years from now? Maybe 25, maybe 10. I don't know, I guess I'm kind of a cynic like that. I just, I try to be self-aware enough to understand and I've actually like to get Phil's take on this. I try to be self-aware enough to understand that I am in kind of an echo chamber. I'm not on feminist channels. I'm not, I don't go to slut walks. I surround myself with like-minded men. And maybe I'm sort of overcompensating, but the fact that I surround myself with like-minded men all the time kind of makes me aware and conscious of the fact that I'm really not, like I'm not around other kinds of people like that. So when we have people in this community say, well, the tide is a turn and the tide has changed and then I go outside my door, I turn on my TV, I go to the movies, it's feminism and blue pill all over again. So I don't know, maybe I'm a cynic like that. What are your thoughts, Phil? Well, it's, you know, I can agree with you wholeheartedly on that. You know, I surround myself with very masculine people and the people I interact with share the same views that I have. You know, and as far as TV goes, we don't really watch too much TV in our house. Good.  So I try to really limit that stuff, but you're absolutely right. When you step out the door, you can see it. It's like my wife will look at me and go, okay, there's a sugar baby. Look at how weak that dude is. Yeah.  And I think as far as feminism goes, you know, unfortunately it seems where I live, I live in Dallas, Fort Worth area.   And they don't care about their appearance anymore. And it's kind of like, you know, my daughter goes to private school and it's, you know, when we started at that school, gosh, she's been there 11 years now. You know, everybody was always all put together. Now it's like my wife and I go to a parent meeting and we're like the best trust people in the place, you know, next to the administrators, you know? You know, I just really worry a lot about what's gonna happen for my child as she matures and grows up because the simple fact still remains, you know, she is a young Republican. Yes, she's definitely to the right side. I mean, we're down here in Texas. Yeah, it's a red state through and through, right?   And it's kind of like, well, why would their parents, you know, let them do that? You know, and it's just like, I'm like, thank you for letting me be able to afford to put her through the private school system, you know, because of the indoctrination of public school where we live, it's pretty bad, you know? So I think that as far as feminism goes, I think that it's gonna get, it's almost cyclical, you know? So we're like at the Iron Age and it's gonna go a step lower before it starts turning back again. I think eventually it will, you know, natural selection will pick it up. Well put, Phil, and I wanna say too that with the MGTOP guys and despair, they feel on a personal level and then for wider culture too, different from what Phil, Phil's a father and worried about the future of this country and culture for his daughter, but the MGTOP guys are doing that and they don't have a lot of cases, that kind of stuff going on. What I will say though is that, you know, the wars that are great, that are grandfathers and great grandfathers fought in and whatnot, these things were massive, massive world conflicts that were very difficult to win to build the world run today. I think what's different emotionally between that kind of chaos, like running up the beach with Nazis, literally shooting machine guns at you, this war is much closer to home and it's nonviolent 99% of the time. So it's a war of culture and of ideas and of, you could say even philosophy and like spirit and stuff between men and women or feminism and, you know, positive masculinity, but it's a war being fought in schools and homes and families and relationships. And we are the leading the fight on this stuff. The Manisphere is by far the world leader of having speakers and ideas and authors gathering together to figure out this information and then deliver it to millions of men every year. So it's a very, it is a serious battle, more serious battles have come before us, but this one is unique in that it's much closer, it's literally not just closer to home, it's in your home, it's in your family, it's in your relationship, it's all around you.  And those are not battles that our great-grandfathers had to fight so much. They were fighting very obvious external enemies in most cases, or at least in the American Revolution, the Civil War so to speak at the time. So these were, those lines were a lot clearer and now that's been in cloud world, those lines have been blurred and also it's not a kinetic war, there's no actual violence going on usually. Guys, there are a lot of people in the queue who seem to be fairly confused, right? No, the guy on the screen is not Richard Cooper. I can pr- listen, listen, I can't even get what you really do look like and like when people tune in, wait a minute, is that Richard? No, this is not Richard Cooper. This guy's name is Phil. You guys can follow him on Twitter, at Evolved Phil. He is absolutely not Richard. He looks like him, he's got the, you guys have the same beard, same black, even the same build, but Phil lives in Dallas and Richard lives in town. Is that better? I can't see now, but is that better? I can't see, right? Well, now you definitely look like Richard Cooper, right? No. Yeah, it's even worse now, honestly. I'll end, I'll, let's go ahead and end this on this, on this last question. And Steve, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw it to you first. How do we get, how do we get men to band together? Because like we talked about at the top of the show, it would appear that some of our strongest detractors are men. Yes, we have females, feminists, single moms, feminazis, all over us all the time, but the ones who seem to be getting the loudest are our fellow man. So rather than, you know, biting back and throwing jabs at one another, what do you think we can do on our end to maybe say, hey guys, let's not fight. Here's an olive branch. Let's let, let's take on this problem together or can it be done? No, it definitely, definitely can't be done. What you gotta understand is a lot of these guys, they should pray every day that the lights don't turn off because the electricity cut off in this world, they would really know that they are the bottom of the totem pole. And a lot of these guys out here are not strong enough to be men. Like every, see the thing is the truth of the matter is everybody can't make the football team. Everybody can't make the basketball team. The way the world works is that- Well, can we get a trophy? No, well yeah, well the way the world works is that you either hunt or you're hunted. That's it, there's no middle ground in all of this. But the problem is, is that a lot of these men are so busy just blindly following people. They've gotten to stop blindly following people and become more single minded and learn how to be their own community. Like I've always said, when us four are together on this show, we are four different communities coming together to like a transformer type that we're connecting because we are our own men. When this turns off, we go back to our own communities and our own lives. Where as most of these guys out here, they have a bloodline or a connection to somebody waiting for either the YouTube or the author or whoever to let these guys know what to do next and they don't let them or allow them to think for themselves. You know, if you wanna complain about women, that you can do that. But on this side of the thing, I don't see no problem. There's no issues over here. But if you have those issues, you have them. But the thing that these young men have to do is they gotta push away their ego. They gotta push aside their self-importance. And what they gotta do is they gotta learn because the only way you're gonna learn is by following somebody who has what you want. And an only way to get what he has is that you have got to begin to ask questions instead of putting your opinion, your thought, because you only see to your level. So your opinion and your thought to a master doesn't matter. That's like me going in an operating room, trying to tell a surgeon how to perform open heart surgery.   But a lot of these young men think because they have a voice that their voice means something. The internet has done the worst thing and it gave a grassy line of voice to think there's something that they're not. So at the end of the day, they gotta learn how to push aside their self-importance and their ego and then maybe then they can learn. That's it, brother. Okay, Phil, what are your thoughts? Do you think that we can get men to band together? Is it a lost cause? If not, what can we do on our end to get men to stop fighting over this thing and work together?   And if you want it, go learn about it. It's no big deal. The game is to be sold, not told. That Lannibor says it.  So what?   You know, so I think as far as men go, we need to figure out a way to come together. So Anthony's put together the 21 convention. Okay, he has some great guys speaking, all different backgrounds, all different kinds of people attending it. That is one avenue. The thing is, is the voice needs to be louder. It needs to be spread and cast a little bit further.  And, you know, as far as it taking hold, I think it will, I think it's just gonna be a long, slow process to get it there because guys are comfortable, man. They are. They don't want, they don't want to put the work in, you know, and it's just like, they're lazy.  They're corn, dude. They're corn, they're sex dolls.  Yeah, and seeing, I just don't even, I don't even get that. You know, I like the smell of a woman, man.  I mean, I don't know. Call me, call me crazy. And for the record, for the record, somebody in the chat says that your beard is better than Richard Cooper. So, you know.  Whoever said that, gracias. On the note of the sex dolls, they don't make a point that some of these, there's a qualitative difference between doing that and then marrying one. And there's some of them, you know, TFM, if I understand back in the day, he was in the show a long time ago, he married a doll. And there's some dudes who do that.    So those are just actually both expressions of more and more dysfunction between men and women in the culture.  We'll laugh at them. Obviously we'll laugh at them too when they marry themselves or a pet or something. You know, but that's corrosive to, to this actual thing in my, in my thought process is that, that actually is corroding.  And that's just my opinion. No, no, that's not an opinion. That's a fact, man. And you want to know what the scariest part about this is? Well, hang on. I challenge this stuff because they're no longer feeding a system that's using and abusing them. They're trying to stand on the sidelines. How successful they're either doing that, I don't know.  And guys think they don't have a choice. They think they either have to sit it out or subject themselves to that torture. And we're here to tell you that it doesn't have to be that way. There is absolutely, I don't want to call it a happy medium, but there is an alternative solution. You can, dare I say, go your own way. If I don't really know how to put it any more eloquently than that. And again, I think that men should understand that it's not a crime. It doesn't make you a simp. It doesn't make you a cuck to admit that you like the way women smell, the way they feel, the way they make you feel. That doesn't mean that you have to blindly go and subject yourself to unnecessary risk. You have to be able to mitigate that risk, but it starts with you. That doesn't start with women. It starts with you. That's why this is called the 22 convention, right? The 21 convention has been around for almost, well, for over a decade, right? So the fact that people, why are you focusing on, no, no, no. The 22 convention is a natural byproduct of the 21 convention.  You can't change women unless you change yourself, gentlemen. That's how this works. Women are incapable of changing and approving themselves.  Them, right? The culture, the media? No, it's on men to lead and guide women. That's why the 22 convention is in existence today. One thing that's been abundantly clear too is that women are not going to start that process at all. That has not happened in years and decades and I don't think it's gonna happen.   So men need to step up, do something about it. And from there, we'll see what happens. I have hope that women, some women will step up positively and do some things like Janice Fiamengo, Dr. Helen Smith. There's some powerful female speakers that say it's a really good shit, but there's not that many. And men need to step up and take lead with us, take charge, like we do with everything else. Yeah, I agree. Thumpiar says, I understand the MGTOW guys and they are putting pressure on female along with us. He said, it's not exactly corrosive to us. Yes, it is. Because men, again, what we have to understand and thump, I don't disagree with what you're saying, but here's where you're wrong. It is corrosive. Well, you know what? It's only corrosive to men who are gonna check out anyway. Here's the thing, feminists, just like Anthony said, women who, oh, I'm never gonna get married. I'm never gonna have a family.  Dudes ain't trying to put babies in you anyway.  You know, women are saying about these guys who call themselves MGTOWs or incels. They're laughing, they're like, dude, okay, you're going your way.  You're not putting any pressure on us.  Big thanks goes out to Barry's voice with the $25 Super Chat. He says, according to barrysvoice.com, so I don't catch heat from the MGTOW community. According to Barry, he says, I truly believe MGTOW is the male equivalent of feminism. We cannot afford to allow this movement to continue to grow. Good counsel, he says, is the answer. Sacrifice is the answer. Therefore, accountability is absolutely essential. I wholeheartedly agree. Feminists have sworn off everything. And guys who call themselves MGTOWs, they're not MGTOWs. That's not what, no, these are guys who are using women as an excuse not to improve themselves. No, don't improve yourself with the sole purpose of trying to be good with women. Improve yourself for yourself and women will naturally follow. I'll let everybody comment on that and then we'll go ahead and end the show. Phil, what are your thoughts?  You know, when men are getting with these women, you know, you can see the writing on the wall relatively early. And sometimes they're a good communion. Like my ex-wife was a good chameleon. But, you know, when I saw the writing on the wall and we were splitting, you know, I was prepared.  You know, once the war starts, you cannot let your foot off the gas. So, you know, the whole, you know, I don't want a day to womb because I don't want to get divorce-raped and all that stuff. I don't want to get, okay, well, then you need to be responsible. You need to pay attention to what you're doing, you know, and make sure that you're not throwing your own self under the friggin' wheels of the bus, you know, so to speak. You know, I think that, you know, there are steps you can take to prevent that from happening.  Well, guess what? I have a new job over here in Rhode Island. Right. Move, then pull the trigger. You see, there's ways around everything. You just gotta find those ways.  You know, I'm fortunate I'm a little bit older. I'm 46 years old. I've been married now for a while. I don't have to go and look at the dating pool, but I see what's out there and I understand the frustration of men. I get it. I get it. No argument for me either, man. I get it. You know, this guy's, I was in, I was in pretty, before going to Poland, my first scouting trip in the spring before I went there in the summer for the convention again, I was feeling the despair, man. I feel these guys feel and I have game and I do bang hot chicks. And even with that, I'm like, dude, this is nuts. Like, especially in a city like Orlando, like I'm at like a pretty large American city. It's getting bad, man. It's getting worse every year. It's getting so bad so fast that my friends and I that live around here and go out and pick up chicks.   Dating even in 2009 and picking up chicks was way different than it is in 2019. But going to Poland was a very, it was a big breath of fresh air for me and it was very positive. And it showed me what women can do and what they should be with much healthier cultural norms and things like that. And ran. And it all starts with the family, you know? And what kind of presence their parents have. Those are very family oriented people over there in Europe, you know? And had the fortunate experiences that my dad was in the military. So we traveled all over the world. I've seen all different kinds of cultures. I've seen a plethora of them. And American culture is definitely on the downward spiral. With the 22 convention, I believe you got AJ running it and speaking in a good lineup of speakers as well behind him. I think as a first conference and having those kinds of men, okay, this is what a masculine man looks like.  Right. This is what you're looking for. Ignore that and let's work on this. Let's work on the greater good. You know, that's where I'm at with it. Sure. And at the end of the day, I think we all agree that the sexual marketplace and the marketplace in general, it's gonna weed out the wants from the want nots. If you're a guy who doesn't think it's worth it to pursue women, okay, that's fine. Then we don't want you in the gene pool.  We don't want anybody breeding with you either. I think in the end, evolution wins and so does natural selection. On that note, that's gonna draw, I believe what is the 88th edition of the red man group to a close. 89. Oh, good God. It's moving faster than I thought. Phil, my first time being on with you, you represented yourself very well. It was a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you for making time for us today, Kirk. Thank you so much. You can find me at Evolve, Phil, on Twitter. Very good. Steve, the Dean, as always, man, when me and you get on the show, gets a little bit crazy. Yesterday was definitely rowdy, but I think today, I think we tamed it down a little bit. But I appreciate Steve being on the show as well. Yeah, thank you very much. And I just wanna say on the subject, you can be a mid-tow, bit-tow, kit-tow, you can be a soda-pop or a comb.  So if it's gonna be a mid-tow today, because that's the new thing to call yourselves, then in 20 years y'all come up with a brand new name.  Thank you. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. Anthony, thanks for putting this whole red man group thing together. It's a pleasure running it. Barry's voice with another $10 Super Chat says, for the record, I was married for 11 years to a chameleon. Visually, she was a 10, but inside she was a three. Whose fault was that? Mine, you faggoty mid-towers, he says. I love it. I love it. Very good. Barry'svoice.com, keeping it all the way real. I love when men can take accountability. I love that. Anthony, any parting shots? Yeah, final shot. I'm in the 22 convention tickets are going on sale most likely tomorrow. So Sunday, that'll be December 8th. Excited for that. Also heads up the second edition of the Patriarch edition, 21 convention. It's coming up also. It's gonna be held at the same time. It's 22 convention. Same venue, same hotel, separate events. Men only at Patriarch, women only at 22Con. If you're a husband or if you have a girlfriend, so if you have a girlfriend or a wife or whatever, you can send her for free to the 22 convention. Or you can bring a friend for you to Patriarch, whatever you want to do. Very good. I like that. Final thing with that, Patriarch tickets are on sale too.  The 21 convention Patriarch edition, this time being headed by Tanner Guzzi. That's coming up at the same time, April 30th to May 3rd, 2020. Tickets are on sale, 21convention.org slash Patriarch. Also link in the description. Usually there's a link for it. Love to see you guys out there. A lot of young fathers and fathers to be like myself. Going to it's good time. That's gonna do it guys. We will see you next week.