Today's Fit Tip goes out to all of you in the health, fitness, and wellness industry. Don't miss the forest for the trees. Make sure you communicate in effective ways.  Don't alienate the average person. It's easy to get health and fitness people to level up. It's really hard to get the average person to take that first step. Remember that when you talk about your health and fitness and wellness advice. I have a feeling I know what this is in regards to. Don't major in the minors. Yeah. Well, so, you know, it's interesting because, I mean, for all intents and purposes, the health, wellness, fitness, and performance space, which I guess you could loosely categorize, right? Like the whole, that whole space into those four categories. They, we failed completely. We completely failed at really helping the average person. People are sicker, people are fatter, people are just getting worse and worse. Both mental health is worse and worse, physical health is worse. Like for all intents and purposes, if it's health, the average person is just... We're way behind the eight ball. We are, and I like to take responsibility for this failure. I know it's easy for us to look and say, oh, it's not our fault. We're trying, but what we're doing is not working. And one of the things that we do that is detrimental is infighting.  And so a lot of this infighting happens and we end up losing the battle. And the average person hears this and what they hear is, you know, they go into it and say, you know, I think I'm going to start, you know, exercising once a week. And then they hear people talk about how it's a waste of time. Waste of time working out once a week. You should work out every single day, otherwise why waste of time?  I'm going to kind of start that way.  Everything's about eating the most perfect foods or whatever.  It's like, well, I'm wasting my time. Why am I even trying? And that only confirms the fact that I failed so many times. Maybe it is that I just can't do everything right. So I'm going to give up. There's a hilarious short or real, maybe Dylan could look it up and put it in the show notes because I think it's so great. And I don't know who did it first. I've seen a couple of people remake it since then, but it cracks me up every time I see it. And it's basically somebody making a video and it splices to like Paul Saladino giving advice, like Max Lugovir giving advice, Paul check it, all these like big, you know, health and fitness influencers. And they're like, stay away from vegetables. Okay. And like, it's like a guy getting ready for like to eat something in the morning. And he goes to, right before he goes to bite it, it clicks to like one of the influencers that are telling him like, that's unhealthy for you. It's like, by the, it's like six, I think that's actually how it ends. I think he ends like eating like ice cubes is like the last thing that he ends up eating. So this all, this is all come, so here's where this all comes from, right? So Max Lugovir, a good friend of ours. First off, I want to say this about Max, he's, everybody we're about to talk about are good people in the space, a hundred percent. And they're all good people in the sense that they all genuinely want to help people. We know these people personally, and to our knowledge, to the best of our knowledge, they're all like real, authentically caring, they want to help people, okay? And they all have different strengths. And one of the strengths that Max has is Max does a damn good job of getting the average person to kind of pay attention to certain things. He does a really good job of this. He's actually one of the best communicators in this sense. So what he does, he does this post where he talks about how, you know, well, if you're in a pinch and you don't have a lot of money and you're going to eat McDonald's, did you know that you can order like what is it off the menu or whatever where you could just order patties, just order meat patties, basically a pound of meat. Yeah. So that's what it is. He gets in the drive through like eight dollars or something like that. Yeah. He orders four quarter pounder patties plain. So apparently McDonald's of all places has a secret menu making it really easy. If you're on a budget in a pinch or if it's all you have access to order really high quality, supersatiating protein. I am excited to give it a shot in the name of science. And he eats it. And he's like, this is not the best meat. He goes, but it's in a pinch. It's a better option. It's protein, this, that and the other. And then now what happened was Paul check who for all intents and purposes is the Godfather of the wellness space. I mean, literally I'll say if it wasn't for Paul check, wellness as we know it probably wouldn't exist. This guy's he's a God in the space. Okay. But what he did is he did one of those strong statement. But he's he's he's just a lot of the stuff you hear now wellness that we take for granted. He's been saying for decades, my point. But anyway, Paul does a video where he's listening to this clip for Max. And then he's basically talking about how McDonald's patties are so terrible. You should not be promoting them. They're so bad for you, so toxic. So there's a few things I want to share with all of you. One McDonald's is a massive conglomerate that uses commercial farming. And that is absolute torture to cows.  They're heavily treated with antibiotics, which will come through the meat. They're heavily treated with steroids, which will come through the meat. They're fed very toxic food. And then the comments starts this like whole thing. Our friend, Josh Trent gets in there, talks about how dare you essentially promote, you know, McDonald's meat because it's so bad and this and that.  Like what's happening right now is your fitness and health enthusiasts are intently listening. The average person who's 99% unhealthy, like everything they do, just not great for them, it just got turned off. They heard Max say, you could just order meat and they considered it for a second. Right. They're like, yeah, maybe I'll do that because I do go to McDonald's every day. And you know, that might be a better step. And I think I can do that. And then they heard also stuff like, oh, it's a waste of time. They also think it's toxic. I might as well go with what I've been doing. It's like, this is too confusing. And that's that. And that's too bad because the average person just, we just got to get them to take like one little step. That's it. We got to do that first. We can't make what is it perfect be the enemy of better? Well, this is where, yeah, it gets tough because we start to get in a bubble and we start really like proselytizing and speaking in a way where this is the ultimate perfect way to operate and to function. And we tend to lose a lot of people along the way because like you said, it's it becomes confusing. It becomes like, well, it frustrating because there's all of these things that you have to tackle all of it once. And so like for your average person, they'll just see that as like this laundry list of items they have to tackle before they even can step inside the gym. And it's it's frustrating because these are all very, very smart people that have got to a level where they've gotten because of all the research and all of the ways that, you know, that they've they've found optimize the human body and brilliant in that regard. But in terms of being able to to invite people and to allow them to take baby steps, like that's really like where we see that as is kind of our mission is is, you know, from being personal trainers and trying to connect with our clients and being relatable. We can't lose that relatability. And I think that's something that is lost in the post like this. So I know all three guys really well and like totally know exactly where each person was coming from. So it's an interesting perspective, right? So first start with Paul. I love Paul to death, but Paul probably has to have his wives to help him turn the Instagram on to know how to even use it and is told like and he knows that he has to be better about self promoting.  Like he has no idea what he's doing. I swear to God, like that guy, he's so deep into reading and research. And like that's social media is not his thing. So he's literally just being told like, hey, do these things and it'll go viral. I'm sure Max's clip was given to him to do some sort of reaction video to it. So he I don't even know if he knows Max really well or not. But his intent, I'm sure, isn't malicious. And he'd probably if he knows Max, if he knew Max's true intent, I'm sure that he would actually support most of what everything that Max says. So that's his perspective. Then you have Max, who's a really good friend of ours who communicates very similar to how we do, right? Like Max is the guy who talks about phytochemicals on receipts and in your hair and so that. So he's the calorie is not a calorie.  He promotes grass-fed beef all the time. But I also know that we've been asked in a position before or been in a position where someone's asked us, well, what do I do if I can't afford whole foods or, you know, and they think that you you can't eat healthy unless you're eating all these really expensive organic foods. And so I know Max, the reason why he made that video was to explain to people like, Hey, even if you only had eight bucks, you could literally hit your entire protein intake in one drive-through meal. That's basically the message that I think he's trying to present, but it's not, you know, it's in short form. So goes and then Josh, I know Josh really well. And I know that he's he he comes from our background from the big global gym type atmosphere. He's a once bro guy who's definitely dove, you know, headfirst into the wellness sphere and is really trying to promote that message that it's more than just macro calories and counting. And he doesn't know Max probably very well at all. And so he jumps to conclusions on what that whole message is about. So, you know, welcome to social media.  It's so awful. It's like, here's three people who I have a lot of respect for all three of them. I like them a lot. I know them really well and they got themselves all cut up in a big circle jerk, not even realizing like they all probably agree.  It's like one of the main strategies if you're trying to beat a message or let's say win a war, OK, is to create or foster infighting among the other side. And this is where messages get lost. Because if you took, I'll tell you something right now. Here's what's here's what sucks about this whole health space, which is like like I broke it down, but let's just say that's the big sphere. If I had a power lifter, a bodybuilder, a functional medicine practitioner, a doctor with integrity, so like a Western medicine doctor, an acupuncturist, I don't know who else we would put on there, a fitness influencer, put them all in a room. They would all start fighting and arguing with each other. The irony of it is all of them want to help the average person become healthier and all of them have some value, OK, they all have some value to present. But we end up not moving forward because somebody goes on social media or tries to read up on something and it's all this infighting. It's this bodybuilder saying that that type of training is terrible because it's not going to cause as much hypertrophy and hypertrophy helps with insulin sensitivity and blah, blah, blah. And then this is a person that's not functional. You're not training functionally. You're just trying to build big muscles and now you can't move right. And you're not doing split stance exercises and you're not doing this. And then another person jumps is you guys don't know what you're talking about. All this focus on strength training and you're not strength. You're not working on calming down the central nervous system with relaxing and resting.  And the other person comes in and says, it's not about the calories. It's about food quality. And someone else says, but the animals are not raised right.  Turn it off. Forget it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to listen to the news. The news tells me. Well, meanwhile, it reminds me of, yeah, like one of my relatives come up to me and be like all excited because they switched from soda to diet soda. Yeah. Where are we? Where do we put them in this conversation?  Well, the truth is that most our clients that were starting their health and fitness journey, you know, subconsciously are looking for an excuse to quit. Totally.  Yeah, like inside and nothing gives them a better excuse than the health people disagreeing or arguing and fighting with each other or coming off pretentious. And so it's a it's a quick turn off. Well, I mean, I met a lot of people that are like, oh, I don't that's space isn't for me. I don't want to be like this. Everyone's vain. Everyone's this. And it's just like, oh, man, it's so unfortunate that that we've done that. But I don't know. I mean, at the same time, too, I only get so riled up because I also realize I mean, when we got together eight years ago, like that was we saw that. Yeah, we knew that, you know? That was like very tribal. Yeah, we knew that there was an opportunity to to be a voice for all of these different camps, you know, to be able to talk about all these different diets, all these different training modalities and share with people all the pros and cons of all of them and that and to not marry one single ideology and and communicate, which is exactly the conversation that we used to have with clients because how many totally write your clients would come to you and they would say, oh, I read them back then. It was before social media for us. So I was like, oh, I read this book on this diet. I heard this and that doctor. I was told me that doctor so and so said this. And so, you know, most of my career was spent unpacking a lot of the dogma around health and nutrition in our space and and and extracting out to my clients. Like, here's the stuff that is valuable and good to you. Take it with a grain of salt because it doesn't mean everyone or it's the end all be all in it. But here's these other things that go totally contradict that. That also have some value to today's program. Giveaway is maps. Aesthetic. Here's how you can win. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and then turn on your notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comments section. We're also running a sale right now on maps and a Bollock advanced half off. If you're interested, click on the link at the top of the description. Below. All right, back to the show. By the way, some humility. OK, just straight up like we totally messed up a lot when we first started as trainers. And this is this is the main way that we screwed up. This right here is the big way that we screwed up. It's that we were playing checkers when you need to play chess, when you're trying to help the average person accomplish lifelong health and fitness. So what's checkers? Well, somebody sits in front of me and says, I only have 30 minutes a week to work out. That's not enough. You got to make more time. If you make more time to exercise and you have more energy, then you'll have more time the rest of the day. It'll make you a better mom or make you a better dad. You'll be a better person, blah, blah, blah, and I do this whole big speech. And then either, A, I convinced them to over apply themselves. And then if they fail or B, I turn them off completely. You lose. What's chess? Chess is how can I eventually get a checkmate? How can I get this person down the path? So then it became this, I only have 30 minutes to work out during the week. Awesome. Let's figure it out. Let's do a 30 minute workout. And then I know if I do a good job that that 30 minutes, that person eventually will say, I think I have another 30 minutes. Or let me talk about maybe I can do something with my diet. And this strategy, what's funny about this, by the way, what I'm saying is that the three of us as trainers, we all figured this out on our own. It was the biggest shift. It's what turned me from a trainer who was just good at selling training to a trainer that eventually got people to really accomplish this and be able to do this long term. It was patience. It was, you know, communicating a particular way. It was focusing on the big picture, not all the small details, not again, making perfect the enemy of better. But we all screwed up like that. You know how many people I totally turned off to to health and fitness because that was me. They'd sit down and say something I was shaming. So how do you how do you to reconcile then when we come after something, say like group training, you know, like, so how. So hearing everything, the spiel that we just went on about what we just called our friends out for doing and, you know, not wanting to turn them off. How do you reconcile the moments today that we have where we say something like, you know, group training should die? I think we had a good example of that with a live caller who called in and kind of presented the fact that she this was literally the only way she would go to the gym, right? And do something. Yeah, do something. And it's like this was opportunity for her to get excited to move. And this was just like her comfort. And like, so I think for us, it's nobody was really talking about the somewhat problematic ending of like staying in that group class setting for too long. I just don't think that was being presented enough. And so I think it we kind of took it upon ourselves to provide a thought, a thought of like, well, OK, maybe this is your entry point, but it's not going to be beneficial for very long. Yeah. What about you? Yeah, no. So the context, thank God, we have long form podcast because this is all first off, you have to be honest. So when you're communicating something, you're not going to say this is perfect. What do we always say about group fitness? Look, movement, some movements better than none. If that's what gets you to go, then that's fine. Here's what you're probably going to run into, though. And here's probably these are going to be the drawbacks. And this is why you're going to have to probably figure out how to move from that into a different kind of training. And then we list why. But it's not like we're not telling them, like, no, like, this is a horrible idea. I also so I'll tell you how like I've thought about this, right? Because of of the three of us, I probably have come the hardest on. That sounded really bad. Yeah. Well, not you stopped. And you didn't think you were going to sell worse as it came the rest of it, because it was already. Oh, really? Yeah. I'm packing. I was like, oh, that's not going to go well. OK, no more. Stop that where it's at. So I'm the one who gets after the group training classes, probably the hardest. And here's how I feel is that I feel really passionate about saying something when the client or the person I'm trying to help is doing way more than they need to or making it more difficult for themselves. And that's what and they don't realize it or recognize it. It's like you're you're you're hammering yourself in this class like, yeah, OK, you could do that. If that's all I get you motivated. But let me tell you, there's a much easier pathway than that way. Granted, just like you said, the example you're given just we did just have a call recently. And I did start it off with like, listen, what I would do with you is because you've admitted that that's the only way you'll come is to have this group class and community that I would start you there. And then I would sort slowly start to win you off of that and transition you into training by yourself. And then we all went around and gave tips. But the way I reconcile it is that it's your you're doing way more than you need to in order to see the same or better results. And that's why I think I feel so passionately about. It's like somebody if you saw somebody who was just like stressing out about macro counting and weighing and doing all something like that stuff's not bad. Like, I mean, I did a lot of that for. But if I saw someone like stressing out over that and putting so much effort on it, it doesn't have to be that hard. Like literally just avoid these things or just count your protein and like, watch, you'll you'll have a much easier time, way less stressful. And you'll probably see better results that way. So I feel passionately about the advice out there that's given that is just over complicating or making it more difficult for these people and just adding more stress to them. That's kind of how I feel. Yeah, I think that's a great point. Totally. I think that's a totally great point. No, I think that there is no there hasn't been, I should say, a unifying voice in the space. There just hasn't. It's it's and hopefully that's that's what we're trying to do as much as possible. So we've tried to do as much as possible is help unify the message because we're losing. We're not winning. We're continuously getting pushed back. We're losing ground. Things are getting worse. People are getting less healthy. And we need to figure this out because of I can't think of a space that's more equipped to actually win this. There is no space that exists other than the health space that actually has the tools that can solve our health problems. So we just need to figure out, hey, everybody, let's gather. Let's unify. Let's gather together. Let's unify our message and let's get people to take those steps. Let's start with step one. I know the goal is to climb the mountain, but this person hasn't even stepped outside their door. Let's start with one step and let's get everybody on board with that one step. And then what typically happens is people start to feel a little bit better and then they start to take, hey, they say, I want to take maybe another step. I mean, if we just got everybody, literally, if we just got everybody to, I don't know, eat the right amount of protein and work out twice a week. OK, that's so far from perfect. It's not even funny. But if you just got everybody to do that, do you know what how much of a significant impact that would have on everybody's health? That says more, by the way, about how poor everybody's health is. That's that's obviously the point. Not that we're, you know, we're going to be like that's magical or anything. Yeah, it's just we're so bad. Our health is so bad. It's like getting off the couch would have been it would have tremendous benefits. This just reminds me. I mean, there's camps out there that are like shaming people for exercises and saying that like we should all you know, strive to becoming Usain Bolt and Sprint. Pinnacle of training. Like, that's how ridiculous like the space is and how ludicrous like like you're really trying to help somebody and you're trying to turn everybody into Usain Bolt. You think that's reasonable? Yeah. Like, so let's all check ourselves and and realize like there's such a bigger need out there for people to just find their way into fitness and helping themselves get healthy. Have Mrs. Johnson just start sprinting. You know, this is the most. You just need to sprint. Yeah, just run as fast as you can. Ah, it's insane. I never want to do this again. We're all guilty of it. We're all guilty of it. All of us. Sure, of course. By the way, it took me. But you got to admit it. It took me years. You're not admitting it. I'm going to call you out. It took me years and years and years and lots of fail. Well, that was like the video games. Oh, my God. The video game comments that I got on that thread. I have a story about that. I knew that would be the most.  And so like I had a day on Instagram. You know, I'm never on there commenting and stuff. And I'm like, oh, Sal's out today. So we were all in the studio just kind of hanging out. We're not recording. And so I'm like, and that had just dropped. And so I was just like fire. And I was being a lot of it was sarcastic, right? I was just messing with people. But the part that I think it's so funny about is I'm like picking on these people and being sarcastic about some of these video game dorks.  Like I was there. Like I remember like being just like you and my buddy trying to give me a hard time and me being like, look how much money I'm making. I'm still a grown man. I'm going to play Tom 50.  You know what I'm saying? Like I said those things. So yeah, this isn't me like, like at all pointing out that. And and it wasn't so funny because the clip, the way it was presented, right, because it was just a clip, you know, it's out of a whole episode.  Right. So targeted. Oh, okay. So the story, right? So I walk my dogs and my good friend and his dog.   Hey, I was like, I was like, oh, no, like he just, he was like, oh man, like I shouldn't be playing video guys. I should be reading a book, I guess, you know, like, oh man. You know what I hate?   Well, yeah. Okay.  That's terrible. There was, there was some, and I gotta give him credit because he did at the end of going back and forth with me. He did say like, okay, fair enough, but he kept like going back, like arguing with it. And then he was just like, hey, bro, how about your Sunday football day? And I'm like, yeah, definitely, bro, hindering my growth. 100% agree. Like I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm saying, I don't binge watching Netflix. And I know it's not, that's the point of this. Like we're all, we're putting this message out.  At one point, I've struggled with all of these things. And so, and inconsistently struggle with that, the pursuit of growth and allowing myself to be distracted by all these other things that, I mean, that's where the place that we've always come from. So this fact that everybody got so defensive. Just to count for it is like your, your inventory. Like this is where I'm spending time and like, like assess like how you're spending time. And like what that's contributing towards the value of your life. And that's it. You know what it is? It's that we've all been there, right? Where you're doing something that's probably not moving your life in the right direction. And rather than be honest with yourself, be like, yeah, I know that this is like not really great. You don't want to make that a sum. You don't want to say that because then that puts responsibility on you. It's not even that Sal. It's because again, I know so I'm so close to this because I was me. You love it so much. You're so deeply addicted to it because it's given you, it's given you all those, those feel good feelings from playing it. So you're so, you love it so much. And you've already justified it to your girlfriends and friends and stuff like that of like, it's better than going out drinking at the bar with people. It's better than this.    It's just like, oh yeah. Well, and so yeah, you just, you've identified with it so strongly that it's hard to do.   And then you're also doing these things. That's really who the message is. It's not, I'm not pointing the finger at somebody who's found some balance in their life or they love to play an hour or two video games a week. Like, who that's, that's not the point of it. And let's be honest, most of you fools, they're getting defensive. It's not an hour or two a week. It's you are freaking mucking for hours. Okay. Like I did get home from work at like nine, 10 o'clock, you and your buddies plug in and you don't plug it out till two a.m. You know why they got so mad, bro?   I know that sounds afraid of is like the pile on. You know, like, like, like my friend got it from his girl and I'm like, come on, like, we're not sitting here like shaming you for that. Like he's like, dude, it's the only thing I look forward to, you know, I get one hour. That's not the, you didn't listen to the podcast. That's a clip, you know, and it's like, that's so funny. So I thought it was pretty fun. Back to the whole like perfect versus good type of deal. This is actually a great way to mention magic spoon cereal. Magic spoon cereal is a processed cereal that has been made to taste like the cereals that you grew up eating on Saturday morning, watching cartoons. The difference is it's very high in protein and low in other calories. And so it's a great option if you're going to take one step towards the better direction or if you're going to indulge in some processed food. And I want to say that because it's when we started working with magic spoon, you had the purists come out. You're promoting cereal. This is process like those protein powders. Process I can't I can't tell you Katrina would attest to this. I can't tell you how many times magic spoon has come in in replace of me having a bowl of ice cream at 10 o'clock at night. So many times where I want to go downstairs and I'm craving like a bowl of ice cream and I get that kind of sweet flavor that is a quarter of the calories as a Ben and Jerry pint of ice cream would be and five times the amount of protein for it. It's like such a better choice. Now, never in my life would I'd say it beats a plate of chicken.  Like, no, I do not think that whatsoever. And I don't use it that way. That's what I heard. Yeah. And that was like the Max look of everything. Like Max is not the guy to be like, everybody should eat McDonald's. This is the way to get healthy and fit. It's like, I know what he's he's been bombarded by people talking about how expensive healthy food is. And he's like, this is a healthy choice in comparison. I feel bad about Max. She's a poor kid. Can't I say kid. I can't poor guy. He can't win.  For saying that he talks too much about laboratory science. Nutritionists. Yeah, like talking too much about like, you know, fight of chemicals. Yeah, yeah, Xeno estrogens and stuff like that. Right. And now he's got a wellness. Now he's got a wellness. Hey, I think that's a sign you're doing good. You're doing something right. Yeah, you're doing so right.  Shout to Max, man. Much love to Max, for sure.  How you feeling, by the way? We just, we just sound better at least. I know I'm coming out. I hate that episode was like sales. Hey, sales were up on Sunday's episode. My, my, my people empathetic. I think people felt sorry. So my kids bought more programs for people to know. My kids were my, my wife and kids were in Arkansas. It was very somber. I went to, I was there. I only came there for a few days, came back because we worked, went back. My kids were sick. So my daughter, she had, but my son and daughter both had fevers kind of on and off. And then afterwards congestion, my youngest, my eight month old had croup at one point. So they were kind of, they were pretty sick. Went to, we, I went back to Arkansas. We flew back and then I got what they had hit me kind of hard, tested myself, turned out to be COVID. So this was COVID round two, actually worse than the first time I had COVID. So I had a fever for a few days. I do want to say commend you guys on your bravery.   You know, Justin, Justin and I are gangsters. Fuck, I wish it was day one. Dude, I'll eat it. Dude, I've seen you eat a burrito off the bathroom floor. So yeah, no, but you guys are good. Yeah, but no, you got it. Adam got it. Well, I mean, I don't know what, I didn't get, I didn't test positive, right? So I, but I, you were in here, Katrina was in here and all of us that are like Doug, right? I got sick the same time that Katrina got sick and, but it didn't feel that bad. So I didn't think twice about it. And then I thought, well, I better test just to make sure cause Sal tested positive. So I was like, let me, let me test. I test negative. And then I noticed that Katrina was getting sicker than like she never gets sick.  Is this her first time getting COVID? Yeah, it was. Oh, that's why. Yeah. And so in it, and she was getting, she was worse than me. So it's weird that we had a cold that was, I assumed was the same cold and she's worse. It's never like that. So I thought that's kind of weird. I'm like, hey, you should probably test. She's like, I'm not testing. I'm fine. I'm like, you need to test. Just see. And sure as shit, she tested positive. But now I'm a lot better.  That was number two for you, right? The second time. It got you worse than the first time.  But it was up there. I had a fever for three days, which for me is a lot. I don't typically get that.  But I never lost sense of smell or taste or anything like that. Everything else was fine. I'm on the mend.  So this is not an official treatment for COVID. Did they change their stance on Mectin or what? Well, they got challenged in court by a doctor and the court said doctors can prescribe Ivermectin for COVID. Now, this doesn't mean the FDA advocates for it, but now they can without getting in trouble. So now you can go to a doctor.  I know.  But they can now prescribe it for COVID whereas before they were told like pharmacies couldn't. Okay, so help me wrap my brain around what potentially could have happened to me. It's almost certain that the cold flu thing that I got was from you. I wasn't around anybody else that was sick. We did kiss a lot. Yeah. And we missed each other, Doug. I didn't, I didn't. And I also, by the way too, when Katrina got it was positive, like we didn't, I mean, we had sex twice afterwards. We slept in the, like we didn't, there was no like trying not to get it.  It was the same day. Well, it's pretty good. Yeah. Vacation sex, you know how that is, right? Yeah. That's like five minutes. Yeah. First, we'll get to that actually. The staff found out Justin's faster than 75% of men. Oh yeah. That's the crazy staff. Yeah, I'll tell you about that. But no, help me. Okay, I understand. Why did you test the negative?  You actually got, I got COVID twice. The antibodies are supposed to be in me for six months to a year. So there's different types. There's different layers to an immune memory, okay? There are, there's like the top layer and then there's lower layers. And there's some, you'll probably have some type of immunity for a year or two years. The strongest type of immunity last, I think something like six months is what they're finding. Okay, so then how does something like, why is it then once you get chickenpox, you never get them again? Depends on, so some viruses cause such a robust immune response that you maintain like really strong immunity forever. So chickenpox, you know, is one of those things. Where if you get it once, if you get it good enough once by the way, if you get it really mild as a kid, you can get it again later. So that's kind of how I feel about what's happened to me with COVID is that I got it early and I got it bad the first time. The second time was like a little snivel and cold. I didn't even realize I had it until Katrina made me test. And then now here I am in a COVID incubator with you and her.  I mean, we drove in a car for five hours together back and forth all the way to Yosemite. We were in a little cabin together. Like if there was a possibility that I could get it, like I couldn't have put myself in a room. You did get it.  So that's the thing. If you did one of those like really... But here's the thing that's weird. I'm beyond a year. So supposedly, because remember everybody, remember all the vaccine pro side was just like, well, natural immunity is only gonna last you for six months anyways. And then you're good. And so that was the big, so explain that to me how a year has gone by. I haven't had it. I was in a situation like that where, and by the way, both of you and Katrina were pretty bad and I'm around it. I got a little, I got a cold from it, you know, for sure. But nothing else.  No, it's so complex and there's so many factors that play a role from individual factors like your stress, your sleep, your vitamin, your nutrient levels, this, that, and the other. Your own immune response. Did it recognize the virus fast enough? How much of it were you exposed to?  I mean, who knows, dude? It's weird.  So it's like, definitely if there was a possibility that I would get exposed, I mean, there was no way that I didn't get exposed. And again, I got sick. I was not around anybody else that was sick. That was, so. Weren't you holding some crystals or something? Yeah, some rocks that were warding off the evil. I don't know. The point of me bringing it up is just that I know that when a rigid, one of the arguments that I was having with my friends early on when everybody was all scared about this, I, you know, I told him, I said, like, you know, I'd rather get to natural immunity.  And then it's gonna mutate. You know, never in the history of the world has, like, that's so funny to me that people were making that argument. I know. Yeah. That's never been healthy, natural immunity is gonna win every day of the week. Period. Yeah, period. And then, yeah, it was all just like, it's crazy how that shifted it because it was so motivated by ushering everybody to one solution. It was just vaccine and that was it. And so it just dismissed all like, like regular logic and reason. Yeah. From the conversation. I know, crazy. Speaking of like treatments and stuff like that. So I did my first ketamine therapy. Yeah, how was that? Okay, so. Besides giving you COVID. I know. Well, actually I started getting sick that day too. So it might have influenced the whole experience because I started to kind of feel sick when I did the treatment. But anyway, boy, it was. Can you compare the two to me? What? The two therapies you've done. You've done these two. Oh, EMDR is different. Well, yeah, obviously that's right. This is a drug, right? I know. So I'm under the influence. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was. Did one feel more impactful than the other?  So I can get away, you know, with EMDR if I want to or anything else. But so here's how it all went down, right? So you go into this office space and I'm working with somebody. Actually, she said I could mention her name. Her name is Harmony Stone. She does this service. That's her real name? That's her name, yeah. I know, sounds like. No, it's not. It's her real name. Sounds like somebody would do this therapy. Yeah. No. I don't know. I'm Harmony Stone. No, she's an extremely qualified woman. Extremely educated, very qualified, very, very good at what she does. Can we, Justin, I guess how she was dressed? No. What? Okay, sorry. I think it's weird. Yeah, I'm sorry.  No. I'm just wondering. Keep going, sorry. No, I'm sorry. Apologies, I'm sorry. Apologies, Harmony. It was getting too deep. It was just low hanging fruit there. Oh my bad. She's very, very qualified at what she does. Really good. But anyway, you're in this room and you talk a little bit with therapists.  There's an initial dose, which is big, a second dose, which is big, and then what's called a booster dose. And so the first two sessions or so, you're figuring out what the right dose is for your body because people are all kind of individual. Some people more sensitive with others. You guys want to guess if I'm more sensitive or less sensitive? You're more sensitive, yeah. For sure, yeah. 100%. As I am with everything. You're the guy, yeah. You're the guy who takes a supplement. It's like, it's working. I can feel myself building muscle. You just swallowed it. Yeah, dude. So anyway, 100%. So I do the first, so it's a tablet and you put it in between your gum and your cheek. You let it sit there for 10 minutes.  And then you lay back. You put like an eye mask on. You put on some noise canceling headphones that has like music and you just let your mind go where it wants, right? Now you have your intention, but you let it go where it wants. So when you say you have your intention, did you put that intention out before? Yeah, yeah. So like your intention might be like, I want to quit drinking alcohol or whatever. So then you lay back. Now the thing about, I've only done this once. This is my personal experience, so I am not representing everybody. I've read lots of people's accounts and what people say, it was hard. It was really hard. Like emotionally, you mean? It's super. Now it makes sense for me because I don't let myself feel hard emotions. So I lay back and I guess it starts to kick in. And you know, and this is what the therapist told me.   Is she communicating with you during this? Or was it just like, she's in the room and she's not. But then when it's time to try the second dose or whatever, then she'll tap on your shoulder, you come up. And then if you want to talk, you can. And she can help you kind of process what's going on. Okay, so let me get this straight. So, okay, you communicate your intentions with her.  So you're not telling us, right?  No, for the first session or two, I think she stays in the room. But after just a second. But I mean, she's not communicating to you though. Like you're, and she literally tells you, don't worry, it's gonna come up. Yeah. Oh wow. So I lay back and sure as fuck, that's exactly what happened. How long? Here's the weird thing, it distorts time. Yeah, any idea though? Well, it was probably 15 minutes. It felt like an hour or an hour and a half.  It starts coming up and I'm like, oh fuck, right? And I can find myself like trying to avoid thinking or feeling a particular way. It wasn't happening. It was going there. So I finally let go went into each of these thoughts and whatever, and it was hard, bro.   Yep. Oh yeah, a lot of it. Oh wow. I don't cry, bro. So it was a lot. Were you uncontrollably crying? Like. Snot bubbles. Yeah, so no, but it's still very sad. I think if you guys saw me, you'd feel very bad for me. You guys, if you want to pet your hair a little bit. I think you guys would feel very uncomfortable in the room. You guys would be like, oh well, we'll be back, Sal. Let us know if you've done it. But yeah, I just love it. I'm going to get some tissues.  How long does it last? Then I did the second dose and then boom. Hold on, come on, you're jumping ahead here. So you're in it, you're crying, you're working through these things like that. That lasts about how long and then what's the intermission look like? Or is there no intermission? I think that was like 15 minutes or so. And then I took another dose. And so she comes in and just like. She was there. She said she's watching you. Yeah, she's sitting in the room. She's just chilling, right? Then I did the second dose.  Now there were moments of like gratitude and appreciation.  Just the bottom line. Justin over there was like, that's why he's not doing it. Hell nah. Just so much there. Hey, you're like. I'm afraid Justin would die.  Hey, you know what? What I'm learning, like big time, is that if you don't process an emotion, it doesn't go away. Yeah, just store it. It's in you.   So if you don't like complete this cycle, it's like a cycle, right?  So what does that completion look like? You got to go through the like hard, painful, like there were like, I don't want to go into other like too many details, but two easy ones for me to talk about, we're not easy, but ones I've talked about before were, you know, I had somebody close to me die of cancer when this person, and they were very close to me. When they died, I remember I couldn't cry, like laid on their chest, they were in their death bed, passed away. And I remember like thinking, why can't I cry? Like, why can't I let this out, right? Oh, that came out. That came out. They didn't get any therapy. Then I thought of my grandfather. Boom, that came out.  So it's like, I had to let it out. I had to come out. Okay, so after you process all that, do you get this feeling of you come out of it and you're like, I'm better now? Or is it just, or is there still work to be done? I don't think it's that easy. I think, yeah, I think, no, it was heavy. It was definitely heavy and hard. So it's more like an awareness thing first. And then now, do you, now, and do you- I don't know what the next ones are gonna be like. I know I've read a lot of people's accounts and they say that there's times when they're very euphoric and they just feel like they're like, you know, just they feel the connectedness of things. And I don't know if that's gonna happen to me, but this was heavy, hard, but necessary. But necessary. And what makes me want to go back is I always bring it back to the space that I understand, which is fitness, which is like, you're gonna work out.  That's it. And it's the only way, if you're gonna progress in any significant way, it's gotta be hard. So do I want to progress or not? Am I gonna be a coward or am I gonna have some bravery here?  I want to run away, but I'm gonna choose to go through it. So I'm gonna step into the fire again. Now, how do you, when you come back to like, with your family and everybody, so like that, is it difficult?  So you're not supposed to drive afterwards, right? So afterwards I leave and I go down to call the Uber, but I waited for like 45 minutes and I literally, I swear to God, if you guys drove by and you didn't know me, you'd be like that poor man. I was sitting, hey, listen, I'm a grown man. You're like on a bench. Hey, I'm a 44 year old grown man. I'm sitting on the curb, okay? On the street, on the curb, just sitting there just for 45 minutes. Just trying to piece them all together. Fully aware that how I probably appear to people driving by, but I'm like, I can't even call my car right now. I gotta sit here for a second. Yeah, so then I got home and then I just laid on the couch and you're just still, you know, trying to process all that stuff. Yeah, so has it made this past week easy, difficult, conine, I mean, calm? Calm. Oh, okay, so good. Even through like, even through challenges and stuff, I'm finding myself more aware of my own behaviors and reactions and more calm about certain things. But I'm fully aware this was like the first step. So we got a lot of work to go. But it's, I tell you man, people, I don't, here's the thing. I remember thinking this halfway through. Halfway through, I'm sitting there balling like, this is, oh my God, this is so hard.  I'm like, people use ketamine to party?  Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. I think it's like other psychedelics. Like you hear people talk about like, tough experiences. Is it the environment that just really drives a different change to it? It's the intent. It's the intent. I think it just brings up. It's the intent.  If you go, if you drink your sorrows away, a lot of times that's a really awful drunk experience. If you go with your buddies to a concert you're excited about, it's like it's a fun. So it's like the same thing can affect you. At just another level, I think it literally brings up what needs to be brought up.  Because I've had that with psilocybin, right? I've had great experiences with you guys creating or doing something positive or business related that it's all good. And then I've had other ones where it's really deep with Katrina and I and we're like working on some relationships. So I think it has a lot to do with. You remember that time, Justin? We had an experience with psilocybin.  It's because my family was close by and it was like, oh, it just hit me different. Like normally I was like, oh cool, look at these colors and these interesting bugs and whatever. And then it was just like, I had this thought of my family and I just had this like overwhelming, like just, I don't know man, it was- Emotion. Emotion. It was just, that was an emotional wreck for like a few minutes. And then he found me in the house. I literally left you guys on purpose. I left. I was like, hey, I want everybody to see me like this. Hey, I gave him a really long hug. Robin Williams, Matt Damon. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. But that's the thing too, I was like thinking about this because it's like, you think about like stoicism and you think about these practices and like, it's almost like that on steroids, right? Because you're really facing like worst case scenario or like things of the past that have really like affected you in a certain way or traumatized you in some sense to where like, I think like, people just don't take the time to really acknowledge these events and these things and to really learn from them and move forward. Look, there's a balancing act.  There are things you have to show up for. And so sometimes that means you gotta just move forward and you can't think about hardship because otherwise you're not gonna be able to go to work. You're not gonna be able to be there for people.  Or whatever. But there's a balancing act because you also need to allow, not run away from those things because otherwise they start to pull the levers in how you interact with people and the things that you do and then you're not, you don't even aware.  It's all about bravery by the way. It's all about bravery. So that was another thing. I realized it's like, oh, me not allowing myself to feel this isn't making me better. It's actually making me worse. It's cause I'm scared.  So, yeah, so. You think there's like a possibility that someone has like this all positive experience? Oh yeah. Oh, you read about them. Okay, where it's like. Yeah, oh yeah. And so I, there's gonna be. I could, I mean, I would think that you could also have like a, what? I'm gonna do eight sessions. Oh, they said anal. Sorry. Whoa. What did you say? Like that's gonna give you a different outcome. Completely out of this therapy now. Wow. Just like that. You lost Justin and I. Oh man. Just like that. Justin's like, that was like. I knew it was going there. I knew it. That's why I'm not doing it. Yeah. That's my fear. I'm trying to tell you guys, dude. Would you have that door? Start crying next, you know, anal. No, no. I'm doing eight of them. Oh, Jesus. Sorry.  No. Sorry. No, dude. Dude, I totally laughed turd, but did you guys, do you guys see the news on Barstow Sports with Dave Poitnoy? What? Well, so explain that. He, he bought the box. So he, he sold the company for a half a billion dollars. Okay. So, and probably made a gajillion, right? So I'm sure he made a lot of money on that cell. Two, Penn National. I told you guys about Penn a long time ago. That's the gambling. Online gambling. Yeah, online gambling and stuff. So I bought shares in them a long time ago. And so they basically were partners now in business. I don't remember what the exact percentage of the company that Penn owned after they, after they bought, but they sold back to him for one dollar. Yeah, why? Because, So obviously this was a plan. It was like, let me sell to you. Well, the given back to for a dollar was a plan. And then if there's a little more to it, right? So if he then goes and sells again, that he, they're entitled to a bunch. So basically it's basically giving him full control and ownership. Was it, now did he, did he stay away or he solds? Therefore he's like, his hands are free of particular decisions. Was it, was it on the decline or something? Was he worried about the direction? No, what was happening was that with a, with a gambling app or company, the laws and regulations and the rules were so, were getting so stringent that they couldn't, and what they were about to do. So Penn National was about to sign with Disney, ESPN. And Disney wanted nothing to do with Dave. So the deal was if, if we are going to, if Penn National was going to partner up with ESPN and Disney, you can't be with Dave. And so basically they sold, they sold it back. So Dave's out. So Dave was out. Well, no, they sold the company. And so then Penn can go back and, so Penn is no longer associated with Barstool. So basically they sold Barstool back to Dave. Dave is in. Oh, I see. Yeah. And now they can go, they can go full on over to ESPN. Yeah, real smart. That's really smart business. Yeah, I mean, God, what a win for Dave. Yeah. To be able to sell, get back control for a dollar and now he's running his company the same way he wanted to run his company. After he sold it for half a billion. Yeah, after he cashed out big one. And the only thing is in the contract is that if he turns around and sells the company, say for $2 billion in so many years, Penn's entitled to, I don't know what the breakdown is, that they would get paid out. He's a smart business guy. Yeah, that was pretty, I thought that was pretty savvy and a win all the way around for him. Cause he felt like his content was being steered by the Penn National because of all the regulations and stuff they couldn't say or talk about. So what is this statistic that you're trying to relate to me? Well, actually, Sal pointed it out. I brought the statistic and he's like, oh my God. Hey, don't throw me in here. What did you say, Sal? So 75% of men actually orgasm within two minutes of intercourse.  You're fast as it must be. That's a lot. We need you. 75% of men. I beat you. Orgasm within two minutes of intercourse. Wow. So that's, is that true? I mean, like, in the very beginning. How do they know this? That can't be like, how do they know this? I'm sure it's reported. Are they, yeah, are they like... Anonymously, right? Who's reporting this? Well, anonymously, you're not being like, hey, I'm the guy who can only last a minute 30. First place. And two, it's not so, it's somebody to get a new relationship. I mean, at least give the guy a bit of credit, right? Like, you think at that point it's gonna be, you know, longer down the road. I mean, that's a lot. Three quarters of men? I wonder how they got the statistic, though. Like, how real is that? Are you fact checking me right now? I'm looking for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just Google how fast... What you got, Andrew? It's true. It was reported 75% manage accurately within two minutes, but it's all that is based off a study from the 1950s. Oh, well. Oh, from the 50s. Oh, you think we're better now? I mean, back then... No, but like, you barely saw ankle back then. You're like, yeah, I want to know exactly, you know? Come on, that's different. Yeah, you guys were on edge constantly. I want to know more and then... Oh, yeah. Yeah, I want to know how they would study that.  No, I bet you... Okay, remember I've told you guys before? Ready to go. I have... I'm a part of this, like, survey that's been going on since I was like six or seven years old. That they find me... I forgot about this. They find me every, like, three to four years. They pay me, like, a hundred and something bucks. It's gone up over years. I don't know what it is now. They haven't found me in a while. Courtney was part of one of those long-term study. Yeah, followed me at every house that I've ever lived in. Like, they've gone and found me. And I put these headphones on. I have a laptop. And they're, like, very personal questions. And it's an anonymous survey.  And, you know, obviously, I remember doing it as a kid and then as a adult. So a lot of these questions, like, when I was, like, 12, asking me about drugs or trying to, like, know on any of those things, and some things have changed. And so that's where a lot of these statistics come from when they ask questions about my sex life, too. So those were in there, so that type of stuff.  But I've always thought that was really interesting how I got, like, thrown into that thing. Well, you know, there was a whole... There was an argument for a long time as to what the purpose of the female orgasm was. Because, evolutionarily speaking, it makes sense, obviously, for a man to ejaculate orgasm and also for it to happen quickly because it increases your odds of, you know, you're gonna pass on your DNA, right? But then the argument was like, well, why do women orgasm? Is it just a leftover byproduct? What's the value? Now, they've shown in studies that when a woman orgasms, her odds of becoming pregnant go up, but it's not enough to really make sense. So the big argument really is that it shows how social we are and that it really wasn't the story of just guys going around banging chicks as fast as they can, but rather actually wanting to please them as well. And that the women pick mates and say, well, he actually cares about how I feel type of deal. So yeah, I know, interesting. But yeah, but yeah, Justin definitely fastest in the West. Yeah. Gun slinger over here, yeah. He read that stat to me. I'm like, please read it like this, dude. Yeah, I know. We have no idea about you. I was just gonna comment on this study. It was a Kinsey study. So it was back in like 1948, but the stats have changed since then. It's between 5.4 and 7.5 minutes now in time. Oh wow, wow. Where'd it go guys? Suggesting that men have adapted their sexual behavior to better fit the social ideal. Oh, interesting. Just say what it says. Doubled our time.  Yeah, I mean, I crushed it. Yeah, you know, anyway. Did you, do you guys see the follow up on the plain lady? Yes. Yes, so she put out a video. Is it real? Well, okay. She apologized basically. Let's hear it. It was a weird apology and why was she even, I mean, yeah, I get that she was like cursing and so she probably felt bad that there was kids and like, you know, embarrassed about it and like, I mean it does, that's gotta be weird to become an instant like viral meme because you have a freak out. Like she literally freaked out. And so she probably was just like very embarrassed by that fact, but doesn't reveal like any of what caused that. Like she doesn't like bring up who was not real. You know, like what, like what spurred that? Like she doesn't, there's no context of like, like, well, did she take any kind of medication or was like, was the guy just like acting weird or like, what's the rationale?  Yeah, yeah. Like she gave us nothing. Someone sideways blink, that's what I think. She just didn't want to say it because they threatened her. Yeah, I thought it was really weird to be silent that long.  And it thought, that's really weird, dude. Like, I don't know. I'm excited my painting should be here any day now. Oh yeah. That's the best thing ever. Hey, I want to, I want to comment on... So we need to interview her. I want to comment real quick on Follerton, which is the peptide hair product that we did an episode on hair regrowth with Jay Campbell. And there were people saying, oh my God, it's so expensive, this and that. It's a three month supply. I want everybody to know that. It's used very little. Yeah, it's a three month supply. It's a drop. So that's why it costs as much as it does. But, you know, Vicky's still telling me, she says she could tell little by little that it seems to have some positive effect on me, that I've been using it now for two months. Well, you're the best because you're the most consistent with it. So I was like consistent for a minute then I fell off and then I was like, it's so hard for me because I don't care. Yeah. I want to care, right? I want to care. You've been doing the Sal Palmetto before that too, right? I was using Sal Palmetto shampoo before, but that all that does is reduce DHT in the scalp.  You know what I mean? That would imply I care. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you guys remember enough. I don't know what you shave it. There was like two years there where like Katrina and I would kind of get into it. Like I wanted to shave it. As soon as it started to thin, I'm like, oh, I'm over this. Let's shave it. She's like, no. She was so adamant about me not shaving. She was so afraid.  I'm like, this is like a pretty good round head. I said, like I used to shave it when I was a kid in sports. I loved it, you know? And made things easy. And so- Every man loves the feeling of being there. And not to mention, I never liked my hair. And a woman just like doing this. Oh, that's the best. Oh, that's the best practice. Even when I had all my hair, I didn't like it. I was never like, I see my son's hair. I wish I had my son's hair. My son has cool hair. Like you could do stuff with it. What's wrong with your hair? It was like wavy and nappy. Oh yeah, big ol' hair. Kind of like your son's hair like that. How his hair is like that. And ask him.  It's awful. You can't style it. You can't do anything. He's just poofy. So I never liked it. So I think, you know what I'm saying? I think, be careful what you wish for.  And so then God's like, okay, here you go. So no more hair. Right. I heard you. Yeah, I heard you. How about this, buddy? How about no hair? Yeah, so I just, I'm not, I don't care enough. I guess I wish it was a bigger insecurity. So maybe that would be more motivated. My brother's swearing by it. He's been fighting his, yeah. He's been fighting. Isn't it like a, it's actually like a really, I shouldn't laugh about that, right? There's a lot of men that like suffer from depression and stuff because of baldness. Isn't it? It's like a mate. Isn't it like one of the top? This is the ones that their identity was through their hair. Like they do it like. And that's maybe what it does like, if I had like Patrick Swayze hair or something and then I lost it, then I would be like, ah, you know, or like Craig Capurso. You know, if I had like this, like this long. What's the guy's name? Jesse from full house. Who's always, yeah, if I had like beautiful locks and then I went bald, maybe that would do that. But I hated my hair since the jump. So what's the, what's the depression stats? Well, I don't know what the stats are, but my thought is, yeah, a lot of guys are very concerned about it. And myself personally, I think I have a really strange shaped head. So I don't think I look good bald. So, yeah. So you're concerned too. Yeah, you're concerned for the same reason. Salas. Yeah, I got a good shaped head. What are you talking about? Really? Who told you that? I, what? I don't. Who told you that? You and I have a very similar shape head. Hey, hold on a second.  Not the face. You got way more, way more cheeks. But the head, you and I have a very similar shape head. It's true. Justin, no. Justin's got a big head. Oh no.  I got a head ready for a helmet.  He doesn't need a helmet. He's a big helmet. Yeah, I think he has space poles in his head.  Hey, hey, can we, can we talk real quick about, you brought something up that I vaguely remember knowing about. But then I, I read into it and I was like, I can't believe this was allowed to happen. The thing with Brooke Shields? Oh, bro. What the, have we not talked about this? I feel like we might have alluded to it. But yeah, if we did, I was like not paying attention when you guys brought this up because I knew nothing about it. I knew about it, kind of, but for some reason to really think about it. And then when you brought it up, I, like, you realized the, I went down the rabbitty. It's so creepy. It's like, it was hard to like believe. Yeah. It's like, I can't believe she was how old? 10, 10, 10 years old. 10 in playboy. Posed in playboy. 11. Make it. 11 plays a prostitute in a movie where she had to make out with the whole guy. Where she had to make out with like a 28 or 30 something year old man. And there's like full nudity, I think of her as well. It's like, absolutely repulsive. Like I cannot believe that, that made it through. And this was in the 70s, right? Yeah. This was in the 70s. I, you know what's crazy? That would never fly today. Well, back then.  I mean, Netflix might pick it up, but you know.  We have the documentary that just came out and just like, man, we're like, and all the, all the Hollywood getting the Epstein, like all this stuff coming out. I'm like, God, this is like so bad, but it's been happening for such a long time. And we were like normalizing it back then, you know, cause it came, I know that they put it under the umbrella of art. Yeah.  It was like the sixties, you know, make love, peace, all that stuff like that is going on. And so they, they put it in the kind of like art, free spirit, anyone should be allowed to do it. Like beyond discussing a 10 year old, I know, fully nude and playboy and then at 11 years old to do that.  Yeah, evil, unbelievable.   That's just, that's impossible.  So if you go down this rabbit hole, I've done it a couple of times, but I can only do it for about 10 minutes because then it just bothers me so much. Did you guys know I want to say in Germany, there was a psychiatrist who made the case effectively made the case that orphan orphan children in order to help them that they're going to be, they'll be okay. They'll be better off if they're within a relationship with an adult, where the adult cares for them and still has consensual, right, quote unquote, consensual sexual contact, so small estation, but you know, not hurting the kid. This is how they'd argument. It's better for them. They're being cared for. They actually care for the kid because they have this relationship with them. This was the case that was made to the point where Germany, it was public policy. They took orphan children, put them with known sex offenders for a decade or so. And these kids were being knowingly put with Jesus sex offenders. It's absolutely. And that was the argument that it was going to, it was better for them than being on their own or, you know, being orphans or whatever. Crazy. Crazy. And this was in the sixties, I want to say. Yeah. Insane. Oh, no, I'm with Putin on how to handle this. Do you know what they do over there? Chemical castration. Yeah.  That's crazy. That's, I think a little too easy to be honest. Yeah. Let's give a shout out to, I can't believe I never gave Paul check a shout out. Paul check. That's crazy. We talked about it earlier. I, again, I've called him the godfather wellness. He's a legend in the space. He is a total legend. He's one of the smartest people when it just comes to total overall health and wellness. Very interesting guy. Also very entertaining. We've had him on the show. If you have your new listener and you want a wild couple of episodes, go back and yeah, yeah, I'd say we're on a journey with him, but he's, he's a good, he's a good time. He's a great guy. I love the guy. So wealth of knowledge. Check him out. All right. You've probably read about the potential benefits of CBD. The problem is most products on the market are simply ineffective. That's because either A, they have no CBD at all or B, they have some CBD, but they don't have other cannabinoids. Cannabinoids work when they're in combination. It's called the entourage effect. There's a company called Ned that makes a full spectrum hemp oil high in CBD, but also has all the other cannabinoids and the terpenes and other things that are in the hemp plant that make the CBD work so well for things like inflammation, sleep, euphoria, gut health and more. Go check them out. Go to helloned.com.  All right. Back to the show. Our first caller is Mike from Nevada. Mike, what's happening? How can we help you? What's up guys? How are you doing? Good, good. Good man. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. So I'll get to my question. And I apologize, Adam, if I misquote you, but I remember a couple of episodes ago, you were talking about to a caller about losing body fat and that you would, what you would do would be take more steps. So if it was 10,000, you do 12,000, 14,000, so forth and so forth. But what if you couldn't do that? Um, what if I couldn't walk? Was what you're saying? Yeah. So, so, so basically my issue is, uh, so I have scoliosis, which hasn't really bothered me, uh, but I have, um, I have a shift in my L4, L5 lumbar spine, which causes numbness in my quad. Um, I also have, uh, complex on both hands. I'm just like, great, uh, which doesn't bother me when I work out. It's kind of weird. It never happens when I work out, but let's say, uh, example, if you were going to Costco and you were parked like, I don't know, over half the length of the, of the parking lot. If I walk there, I'll start feeling the numbness and the longer I walk, it starts, I saw how to hip pain. So I have to sit, I accept it like kneel down for a minute and I have to keep doing this. So if you couldn't put that many steps in the day, what, got it, got it. Okay. That's, that's a lot better. So, uh, the main focus in is I would want to put a lot of energy towards building muscle so that I have a faster metabolism so it doesn't require as much activity to help me lean out. So that would be step one, right?  So that would be the foot. Yeah. So that would to get there. That doesn't mean like today you go from where you're at to there, but that would be the main focus first and then I would reduce calories to lean you out because I know that I can't make you do 12, 15, 20,000 steps a day. So then I would cut. But the mistake that, that a lot of people make that may be in a similar situation as you is go, Hey, I want to lean out. I hear items say you got to walk all the time. I can't do that. So I should just cut calories, but you're coming from a place of only eating, say 2,200 calories a day and you're and so I don't know if I was close at all or you're at, but that the problem with that is if you've got more than five pounds of fat that you want to lose, you're going to end up at such a low calorie. It's going to be really difficult to maintain. So let's say that if I let's say I guessed a similar number to where you're at and you're like, Hey, I want to lose like 15 pounds of body fat. So we reduced two to 300 calories. You lean out a couple pounds and we reduced 200 calories. Again, you lean out a couple more pounds. Before you know it, you're eating 1500 calories a day and you're still about five pounds from your goal. So it's like you're at a place where you're so low a calorie, it's it's not sustainable long term. And so that's a sign that we should have done it the other way, which is we should have put more energy and focus on building muscle and get a faster metabolism so that when we reduce those calories, you land at a place that you're like, Oh, this is sustainable. That's why I said 3000 plus. So now envision that we go on a journey for the next six months of building muscle. And I build say 10 pounds of muscle on you over the course of say six months. And then and we get your metabolism up to 3,000, 3,200 calories.  So that's how I would approach, you know, getting you there if we were limited by movement and steps to help us create the caloric deficit. Yeah, and honestly, Mike, trying to walk or run or burn fat off through activity isn't really a great long term approach anyway. So which is what I hear from you guys. I've been listening for the last two years. I've been running a maps program, which I actually love, which I have a question for you. So you mentioned something a few episodes ago. Um, you guys, we thought you and I were talking about deadlifting grips, right? And how you were saying in balances, you should if you use a mixed grip, which I know Adam, you said you're saying you should use a overhead grip. But if you use a mixed grip, should you do even that by switching them? You know what I'm saying? Yep. Yep. If you if you go right hand supinated, left hand pronated and then switch and then switch. Yeah, I would do even sets or start the next workout with the other position. So if it's only three sets, then and let's say, you know, two sets were right hand supinated in the next set. The next time you work out, do two sets where the left hand is supinated. Also, you actually want to do. Okay. Okay. And I have one more question for Adam, which would make you my second favorite. In fact, it's on the side of sound and Justin, which I love both, but it's making my second favorite. I've been back to ball. I'm checking on your magazine collection. You know, who's the goat? Who's the goat? Yeah. Oh, man. I mean, here's here's the thing. And this will be this will be an unpopular answer because I'm a huge Michael Jordan fan. And I can and by the way, I could argue this cave. We had an hour to talk about this. I could argue Jordan and I could argue LeBron for both different reasons, like statistically, what LeBron is doing.  Statistically, you have to give you have to tip your hat to him and say he potentially is that but what Jordan did in his era at that time, the way he was feared at that time to I mean, you have a lot of people that got to play with both and they would say that Jordan is still the goat because of the player mentality that he had on the court. So I could argue the case. I know that's probably not the answer you're looking for. But plus the wrong. Yeah. Let's be honest. Yeah. Unfortunately, I've I've I've liked LeBron less and less for less about his basketball and more of what he what he the way he talks outside of basketball. So it's hard because I because of that I like him less. I love that Jordan played the game and left it at that and didn't try and involve himself in so many other things. So personally, I have more respect for him for that. But you could argue either way, man, you really can't. I'm assuming that you didn't have anybody else on that that list. It's Jordan or LeBron, right? Correct. Yeah, I was asking your opinion. So you're gonna play. You're not going to choose one the other. I'm not because it's I don't think it's fair because you can't compare somebody that generationally they're they played against different defenses and players. There was different rules in the game. You could get away with so much more defensively back in the days with Jordan. So the physicality of the game is different. So the game has evolved and changed. So it's hard to compare just like it's hard to compare boxers. It's hard to compare, you know, Muhammad Ali to a Mike Tyson era because stylistically, the athletes they were fighting against where we're at. So it's one of those things that's fun to get drunk or high and talk to your friends about for two hours and argue. But at the end of the day, I don't think it's fair to to compare. You know what I'm saying? Well, let me let me give one for Sal and Justin to go down a rabbit hole. You guys talked about this the other day about errors, bronze era, gold era. You asked this question about what was the next error be? Yeah, you remember this? Yep. Oh, yeah. It would be iron. The iron era. And the only reason why is because in the Bible, there's a story about Nebuchadnezzar who has a dream about a statue of head of gold, silver, bronze and iron. That was good. Hey, that's cool. I like that. That's cool. I was thinking platinum. So yeah, I like that. I like that. I like that. Good deal. Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. You got a brand. Take it easy, man. All right. What about Dr. Jay? What did he didn't he score the most? He's not because nobody could defend the only thing I would say is air hook, right? I've heard arguments on Jordan's behalf about, you know, the well roundedness in terms of like him winning awards for defense and him winning awards for a lot of things consistently that LeBron didn't. But I mean, to your point, the game was a completely different animal back then. And so he I just I liked his mentality and his tenaciousness. He wasn't as physically dominant as LeBron. So for me, I lean more into that just based off of like him being able to grind his way towards like all those championships. I also lean towards Jordan because what he did was so unique and unprecedented when he did it. Like and this is kind of an unfair way to do this. But I mean, I think it's true. I think you guys imagine being in an era where when you look at the landscape, nobody is doing any of these things and you go pays the Maverick versus nowadays like what LeBron LeBron's peers are all they push him. Yeah. Right. Like where Jordan had to push himself like he was so far ahead of everybody for so long. Imagine and I have a lot of respect for that. It's really easy to settle when you're already clowning everybody for already for a really long time to keep pushing to keep driving to be better and better. Where I feel like LeBron has a I mean, there's a lot of a lot of very talented players that are pushing the envelope today in comparison to then like just the level. I mean, God, if you just go back 50, 60 years ago, NBA players were also contractors and plumbers. Jordan was one of the first to actually start weight training. You know, he kind of brought that in. And you look at the physicality of LeBron and like just how like strong and like able is to shoot threes. And like he's he's so versatile all over the place. But yeah, like you said, I think like Michael Jordan really brought in ushered in a lot of that to hand off there. But then but then so like I said, I could defend it both ways. If I go this way, if you put those two guys one on one LeBron would he would stomp him physically. I hate to say that. But would LeBron exist if Jordan never existed? Right. Right. But he grew up. He grew up idolizing different player. Look, it's like Jimi Hendrix when he played when he played that feedback with the guitar. Nobody ever heard that before. That's how everybody does it. But when he did it, everybody, what the hell? That's why I think that's why you get the the the the edge, in my opinion, when you paved the way blazer. Yeah, when you paved it first for the rest of the guys to follow the blueprint, you got to get a little extra credit for that even if somebody else surpasses you in accolades. Of course. You got to I mean, if you created it or you were the first to do so many, so many of these things that got Jordan was the first to do so many, so many great things. So our next caller is Ashley from Iowa. Hi, Ashley, how can we help you? Hi, guys. How are you guys doing? Good. Are you good? Hey, I'm the question I want to run by you today is just more or less moving into a phase of life that I hope to be kind of the final just whatever what I end up doing for kind of the rest of my life in the gym. And I was hoping you could give me some feedback on it. So I've been in I've been in the gym for like 15 years now, so I'm super comfortable in the gym been using barbells and dumbbells. So nothing, nothing like that is kind of out of the picture for me. But I did have a baby about two years ago. So I now have a toddler. And so I'm kind of trying to figure out what I want to do now that we're my lifestyle as well as like continuing to build muscle and get benefits of that kind of meet in the middle, if that makes sense.  I do track cal or I have tracked calories for a while. Right now, I are mostly focused on protein. But I would say I'm roughly around 22 to 2400 calories for maintenance. And I, I tend to stick there all year around. But I would like to get the benefits of like a bulk for muscle building. And I was wondering if it would work to do that without actually changing up my calories. So because I live in Iowa, there's like two to three months out of the year in the winter where I'm definitely less active than I am the rest of the year. And so I'm burning less calories in those months, as opposed to like adding more calories in, I'm burning less. Therefore, my body essentially has more calories. And I was wondering if during those months, if I could run a program like strong or powerlifting and get the same benefits of building muscle that you would get in a bulk without having to like add calories into my diet.  How do you for the past 15 years? Yeah. Most well, it's 5050. It's I've been doing aesthetic for a while now. I was in I was in CrossFit for probably seven or eight years. So it's about 5050. Okay. But for the last since COVID, I switched over to using LCK and doing more aesthetic type stuff. And then your guys has programmed since then. So for the past three or four years, it's been mostly like aesthetic. So I think and our did you follow maps aesthetic? Was that your choice of our programs? Yeah, yep. So I do have anabolic I do have strong and 15 I followed 15 when our daughter was born. Yeah, you'd be surprised like getting to your original question about can I keep my calories the same but yet still kind of do a bulk? Typically, I'd say no, but if somebody was really active, say CrossFit, say maps, aesthetic high volume type of training, moving to a maps anabolic two times a week, you'd be surprised what you could do with something like that. The hardest part will be the mental shift from somebody who's got an athletic background like you that's been probably hitting the weights pretty hard for a really long time to shift from that high of a volume training to something that's less volume and you'd be surprised what you could do with that. I think that you could do that without having to add a bunch of calories. So what do you what do your calories sit at before these these two months to 2200? Yeah, I would say I only focus on my I mainly focus on my protein, which is about 170 because that's one for one. And then the fats and carbs kind of fall in line. But I would say I usually hit about 22 to 23. When you get to these these two months of less activity, do you gain weight typically? Um, not not that I notice.  So nothing exaggerated. You'd be surprised how the body adapts to movement when it comes to calories. So I would say you probably want to bump your calories also. You would be surprised. Now the benefit might be more recovery, a little bit of rest depending on how active you were. I just said you think if she's training five days a week and she went to two days a week, that wouldn't do it. That might do it. But that just that's mostly from the recovery aspect I would say more than the like I'm burning calories like the amount of calories you burn while you exercise. Okay, that's a fair point. Your body adapts really quickly one way or the other like really, really quickly. So in there there's a period of time where it does you do get some effects and she's so low. It's not a big yeah. And you've been working out for so long. You have a lot of muscle. You look probably really strong. I would say go on a small calorie surplus at the same time and see what happens. I think if you made the switch though from you know, if you're training the more like a five day a week program down to like a two day a week program, it wouldn't take a lot extra calories.  You would see a good response from that. Exactly. Perfect. So I could just like through as my year goes on or as my years go on, just switch to more of like an anabolic within those winter months and then kind of totally. Yep. Yeah. After that, you'll get really strong. Probably. Yeah. Do we see that was really all I wanted to know. I mean, and I love the idea that you've already incorporated map 15 because that's the other thing, you know, having a two year old like the benefits of utilizing that way of training to which is in a sense, it's kind of like anabolic just split up over five days and broken up in 15 minutes when you really dissect like what we're doing in there. So it's like basically choosing should I lift two or three days a week or do I want to lift every day and just less time very similar as far as involved. There's a little bit more in anabolic if you're doing three days a week. Perfect. Perfect. That was really all I wanted to help with. Thank you. All right, Ashley. Thanks for calling in. Thanks, guys. You got it.  Yeah, you can always tell, right? Yeah, the reducing calories or the calorie burn. The benefits often come from just the improved recovery, right? You're just allowing your body to recover more and respond more to the muscle building signal. There's a reduction in calorie burn, but that starts to your body starts to adapt to it pretty quickly. No, you make a good point when you're you're already kind of in the low twenty two hundred calories is not a lot. And so when you're talking about what you're saying, it's not a huge. Yeah, it's not a huge bump. Yeah, it's not a huge fluctuation, not to mention if her body does respond and build some muscle, her metabolism is going to speed up a little bit, too. So she's going to inevitably have to. She'll get us stronger is what's going to happen, right? Yeah, and I showed to add some calories. Our next caller is Bridget from California. Hi, Bridget, how can we help you? Hey, guys, how's it going? Good, good, good. Thanks. Thanks for having me super excited. This is really cool. I've been listening to the podcast for years. So I can't wait to ask you. Let's hear it. All right. So my question is related to quad dominance. I'll give you a little bit of background. I played softball for about eight years when I was growing up, which is kind of like I self diagnosed my quad dominance from softball. Basically, I just would like to know if it's possible to permanently fix quad dominance. What can I do in my workouts and or like everyday life to fix it or activate my glutes more, hamstrings more? Is it possible? Can I do it? What can I do if it is? Yeah, just looking to really balance out my legs a lot more. What makes you what makes you think you have quad dominance? What are the things that you see? Visibly, I think I do just like the front half of my upper leg is definitely more protrude forward a lot more than the back, as well as when I'm working out, like if I'm doing squats, my quads totally take over. When I'm deadlifting, if I don't really prime beforehand, then my quads tend to take over. It's really just kind of like doing any kind of exercises. My quads just totally take over the movement and I can't feel like my hamstrings or glutes or any other part of my leg working.  I can. However, it's if I go too low, then it's really just like on the way up. It's all quads. Were you a catcher when you played? Yeah, I was just thinking something. No, I wish I was cool like that. No, I was just I did. I bounced around. I wasn't that great of a player to be honest with you guys. I did play for a while, but I was that great. So I was out in like outfield or I did a little bit of first base and third base. Well, I'm only asking because catchers in that that quad stretch position, they're just the quads get so constant. Nice attention. I would start all your lower body workouts with glute and hamstrings and then move to the stuff.  Then I go to squats. Do you hip thrust right now? Yeah, oh, man. I just hit a PR doing that Santa Bolic with hip thrust and oh my God, I love it. I'm so excited. It was awesome. Great feeling. Every workout I would start that that involved the lower body. I would start with the posterior chain. That's the best way to do it. And then end your work. OK, you can't even do it like this.  You could literally deprioritize it that much. I mean, if I would, you could deprioritize it where she's almost not even doing it. And she's got that much dominance there. You can put you can add in an additional hamstring exercise or a good morning or something that's another glute movement instead of the quads. If you're happy with the development of your quads and the primary focus is to build the glutes and the hamstrings, you know, anywhere where we have programs say, you know, Sissy's quads or more quad dominant exercises, trade them out for posterior chains or trade them out for good mornings, deadlifts, you know, whether it be conventional or Romanian deadlifts, hip thrust movements like that. There's nothing wrong with doing that. OK, yeah. So that's exactly what I've been doing over the past, I don't know, year or so. And it has slowly worked. But I still feel like when I get up to higher reps on certain exercises, like I'll be great up until like a certain amount and then my quads take over. But I've also I'm not sure if this really matters or not if it's really a concern. I've noticed that my quads really aren't that strong, to be honest with you. They just take over. I don't know if that makes any sense, but sure. Yeah, literally what we what I said recruitment patterns. Yeah. And literally what I said will do it. I would start every lower body exercise with all posterior chain stuff and even avoid quad exercises for a lot of different workouts. And then you'll slowly start to see things catch up and really take your time in the beginning to have that isometric sort of firing and allow yourself to get into like a hip bridge position, really squeeze those glutes and hold that for a substantial amount of time until you actually can feel that connection of firmly established and then kind of move your way through and do what they're saying in terms of like really, you know, highlighting the posterior chain and then work your way through the rest of legs or even avoid, you know, more of the quad type of exercises. But I mean, that's really you just have to like deliberately program that in and it's going to take some time like a year versus what you've done years before. Your body has to learn that this is like the new go to program. Bridget, have you have you ever tried to get really good at single leg deadlifts too? No, I've done it. But yeah, they're pretty tough. But I can. I can try that. That's a good movement to add in there. So we talked about maybe, you know, if you were to eliminate, let's say leg extensions or a quad dominant exercise, put some single leg deadlifts in there and try and get good at those. Try and get strong at single leg deadlifts. Start off with your mechanics, getting good form and technique. It's great about that exercises. When you when you first slide the hips out, it'll put everything back in those glutes and hamstrings and then the the stabilization in the hips. You'll get a lot of benefits from that. Work on getting strong in single leg deadlifts in addition to all the other stuff that we said, I think that would benefit you a lot. Cool. What program program are you running right now? Matt's anabolic, but I swapped out the squats for hip stress. Oh, good. Yeah, that's great. You're on point. Yeah, that's a great call. I love that program. I did it earlier this year and then I did performance and now I'm back to anabolic because I liked it so much. Excellent. Yeah, I think it's a good fit for you. It is a good fit and it's a good call what you're doing. So I like that. Okay, so then in my regular life or even in my trigger sessions, should I be paying attention to like how I'm using my legs or is there anything like because, you know, working out is maybe an hour out of my day, a couple hours out of the week. Is there something that I can spend more time on maybe teaching my legs to use different muscles? Yeah, yeah, yeah, single leg. Yes, yes. Frog pumpers, bodyweight hip thrusters, all those trigger sessions, build your trigger sessions around that. All the examples, single leg toe touch, which is basically helping you get good at the single leg deadlift, right? So if you get really good at that movement pattern, you could do lateral tube walks, you could do the frog pumps, you can just do hip bridges where it's just your body weight and you're squeezing and getting like an isometric contraction where you just hold your hips at the top and squeeze your butt like, yeah, those would be that's exactly what I would do for trigger sessions since you're not calling and saying, Hey, I want to build my shoulders more. And because we kind of teach trigger sessions is like touch every body part. But for someone like you who has a very specific goal, you're trying to develop the backside. I would do a lot of trigger sessions around that. Awesome. Cool. Well, thank you so much, guys. It's super helpful. I'll do all of those things. You got to bridge it. Take care about it. Yeah, really, this for anybody who's listening, who notices a body part is overdeveloped in comparison to the other body parts. So she's talking about quad dominance, which either from a functional standpoint, you can have quad dominance, meaning the strength ratio from the hamstrings of the quads is off.  Easiest way to address that is to prioritize the body part you want to get the most results out of in the workout. And even the second thing you could do is cut the volume and sets from the dominant body part. And over time, you start to see things balance out. I think the most challenging thing for that is when it is specifically the butt versus squads, because the the exercises like a squat could be an excellent exercise for the glutes, right? So in your head, you go, I'm going to prioritize that because it's a great glute builder. And I'm but because your quad dominant, it's a little bit different than saying, like, hey, I want to build big biceps because I have small biceps compared to my triceps. I'm going to start every workout with my curls. You're not going to get like a the tricep kicking in also doing that. That's going to work for that. But for someone specifically trying to build the glutes and they're trying to prioritize it, you just need to have some that's way more procier chain focus, which would be like a dead lift. Or the only thing I would add is if like there's a limiting factor for range of motion, like you can't get into the depth to really, you know, gain that benefit of your glutes kind of kicking in at that point. And that's where we need to mobilize the hips. We need to mobilize, you know, the ankles and what not to be able to produce the stability required for you to gain that which by the way is really common with my female athletes that want to build their butt. They are so quad dominant, a lot of sports require a lot of quad dominance because you're sprinting and running and jumping all the time, right? And you're not jumping through full range of motion. So less glute activation, more quad dominant in that. And then they go to start training. They know that squats are good for building the butt. But then their quads are so they only they can only get to 90 degrees. They can't even break the plane, which is when you break that 90 degrees, so much more the glutes have to activate to get you out of the hole. And so even with someone with quad dominance, like the knees can go forward and you can become a quad exercise if you go right. Yeah, lean places. This is why some people are like, oh my God, hip thrust are the best but building exercise because they don't have they have trouble really activating glutes with the squat.


One of the important areas to be considered by language teachers in the writing process is how to organize ideas. I mean this is what we often hear from most of our students that they have nothing to say or they are slow writers or they feel blank about. So organizing ideas is an important area to be considered by language teachers especially in the classroom. You know in this regard we can discipline our students how to put their ideas in an organized manner. One of the ways is to choose tasks which are relevant and appealing to the students that will allow them to put their own point of view, to put their own perspective. So for example if we want our students to organize their ideas in assignments, in examinations that can be even more challenging. Why? Because they are doing academic stuff, they are scared of the grades so before putting them into the academic stuff we can expose them to their own personal narrative writings. Narrative writings like letter writing, like writing to each other or writing to parents or writing to the ministry, writing to teachers can help them put their own point of view, put their own perspective. So of course we cannot deny this that the efficient organization of ideas of course adds uniqueness to the writing but this is important. We cannot deny the significance of organizing ideas when we talk about the writing process. Writing process it's the heart and soul organizing ideas is the heart and soul of the writing process and in this regard once we have exposed our students to personal writing to the narrative writing for example to the cause and effect relationship to classification or exemplification or descriptive writing and we can expose them to tasks of academic nature when before we before exposing them to the tasks of academic nature we need to tell them the rubrics the assessment criteria like how much emphasis will be given to grammar and vocabulary, how much emphasis will be given to the overall structure of the assignment, how much emphasis or mark will be given to the coherent flow of the natural flow of the ideas, how much emphasis will be given to the introduction which contains clear signposting guiding readers about the different parts of the assignment. So this is how we can also develop the habit of using headings and subheadings and then in this regard it's important to show students before putting them into organizing we can show the model answers how successful writers put their ideas together in a coherent meaningful text. So this is how we can apply different procedures which work for our students which work for our particular Pakistani context and in this regard extensive reading can make students see how successful writers organize or put their ideas together in a coherent manner in a particular text.