Greetings from the National Archives. I'm David Ferriero, Archivist of the United States, and it's my pleasure to welcome you to today's virtual book talk with Janice Nomura, author of The Doctor's Blackwell. Before we begin, I'd like to tell you about two upcoming programs you can view on our YouTube channel. On Tuesday March 9th at noon, we will welcome Jane Zagline, author of The Girl Explorers, the story of the founding of the Society of Women Geographers, and how key members served as early advocates for human rights and paved the way for today's women scientists. And on Thursday, March 11th at noon, Bruce Levine will be here to tell us about his new biography of Thaddeus Stevens, one of the foremost abolitionists in Congress before the Civil War and firm proponent of equal rights for black Americans during Reconstruction. In 2020, we observed the 100th anniversary of the ratification of the 19th Amendment, which secured women's right to vote in the United States Constitution. In the months leading up to the actual anniversary date, we looked at the history of the suffrage movement and learned about milestones in the pursuit of women's rights. We often start discussions about women's suffrage in 1848 with the First Women's Rights Convention in Seneca Falls, New York. A year earlier and about a dozen miles away, however, a young woman entered Geneva Medical College on her way to becoming the first woman in the United States to get a medical degree. Dr. Elizabeth Blackwell and her sister Emily, who joined her in her practice, brought medicine to women and women to medicine as a subtitle of Namora's book, Declares. Not only did they break into a profession dominated by men, they also opened an infirmary specifically for women and staffed entirely by women. Janice Namora's biography of the Blackwell sisters has already won national praise in The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post. Joanna Scutz of The Times calls the book a richly detailed and propulsive biography of Elizabeth and her sister Emily Blackwell. Janice Namora is the author of Daughters of the Samurai, a journey from east to west and back, which was a New York Times notable book in 2015. She received a public scholar award from the National Endowment for the Humanities and support of her work on The Doctor's Blackwell. Her work has appeared in The New York Times, Smithsonian Magazine, among other publications, and she's been interviewed on National Public Radio's Fresh Air and All Things Considered. Now let's hear from Janice Namora. Thank you for joining us today. Thank you so much, and it's a real honor to be here with you today. I'm going to share my screen because this story is much more fun with pictures. Okay, so the Blackwells. If you are familiar at all with the name Elizabeth Blackwell, it's probably just Elizabeth and not Emily. And it's usually followed by the phrase First Woman Doctor. As you just heard, she was the first woman to receive a medical degree in 1849. Her sister Emily followed her to that distinction in 1854, and together they founded the New York Infirmary for Indigent Women and Children and the Women's Medical College of the New York Infirmary. I encountered the Blackwell story for the first time five years ago, despite the fact that I am born, raised, and live in the city where they practice, New York. I grew up at a proudly feminist girls school from the age of five. I was the math science kid there. I graduated with the intention of pursuing medicine, although I swerved. And I had never heard of them. How was that possible? Well, I went hunting for them. And discovered that the Blackwell story is not hard to find on the children's biography shelf. There are many editions of the story there. This one is from the 1940s. They all feature a young, slim, attractive, well-dressed woman with a stethoscope, bending solicitously over a grateful patient. This is the middle grade version. Same stethoscope. Nice clothes. Here's the picture book version with a younger, perky Elizabeth, but still there's that stethoscope peeking out of the bag, waiting for her to grow up. Well, these books were fun and inspirational and incomplete. Elizabeth and Emily Blackwell looked like this. In the 1840s and 50s, when they were as young and attractive as the women in these picture books, even stethoscopes would have looked like this. There was so much that was missing from these sort of lives of the saints, inspirational tales. And as I moved more deeply into the archives and started to listen to Elizabeth and Emily's voices in their own letters and journals, I discovered how much complexity and contradiction is part of this story. And I became really eager to retell it, to reintroduce these women to the present with all of their ragged edges, not just as picture book heroines. I wanted to know the whole story and not just what fits in the picture book. So what is that story? Briefly. The Blackwells, eight out of the nine Blackwell siblings were born in Bristol, England and came to this country in 1832. They were the sons and daughters of a man who was a paradox. He was both a sugar refiner and an abolitionist. Think about that for a second. He gave his five daughters the same education as his four sons, which was an extraordinary legacy at the time. And he moved them from Bristol all the way via New York to the wilds of Cincinnati in search of a way to pursue his dream of making sugar from sugar beats in the north without enslaved labor. Having gotten them all the way out to the edge of the known universe in Cincinnati, he promptly died, broke, leaving a widow and nine children to fend for themselves, and leaving his five daughters with the clear message that having a husband, however beloved, is no guarantee of security. None of his five daughters ever married. So the nine Blackwell siblings now orphaned at the edge of civilization. They really became a tribe and therefore a great gift to a biographer because they were rarely all in the same place at the same time. And they were very closely bonded to each other. So they were constantly writing to each other. And this is a glimpse at the challenges of writing 19th century biography because when when postage and paper were expensive. And for this family, they certainly were. This is what you did. This is called cross writing. This is a letter from Elizabeth from Henry Blackwell, Elizabeth's brother to her in 1844. As you can see, he has filled the page and then turned it 90 degrees and filled it again. You do get used to writing to reading this kind of cross writing and Henry especially had lovely handwriting. So this is actually not a not a bad version of it, but you can see how how it can be a daunting project. Here's a close up. Elizabeth was born in 1821. She was voraciously brilliant, socially quite awkward and blessed with a healthy sense of self worth. She admired the transcendentalist writer and editor Margaret Fuller, who in the mid 1940s had just published a bestselling book called Woman in the 19th century. This would have been very prominently placed in the Blackwell parlor. Margaret Fuller was the kind of writer they all enjoyed, excuse me. And Margaret Fuller in her book argued that humanity would not reach the next level of enlightenment until women unleashed their own power and proved their independence. According to Margaret Fuller, women could do anything. It was a matter of talent and toil. It was not a matter of sex. Women could be sea captains if they wanted to be. And young Elizabeth, hearing this, it really resonated with her. She thought of herself as someone whose life could prove Margaret Fuller's point, whose life could be a beacon to other women and help raise humanity to a new level. So she chose medicine, Elizabeth did, and it was an interesting choice. It wasn't because she loved science or particularly wanted to heal the sick. She thought sickness was a sign of weakness.  But medicine in this moment was an unusually clear way to prove her point. Medicine was redefining itself both scientifically and institutionally in the mid 19th century. Hitherto it had been considered more of a trade, the trade of midwives and barber surgeons. Now increasingly it was a profession, a profession of men who were credentialed by virtue of having attended a medical school. And increasingly there were medical schools in America. So Elizabeth thought if I can find my way to a medical school and attend all the lectures and pass all the examinations, who can argue that I am not as qualified as any man to be a doctor? And as this cartoon from the 1820s suggests, medical education at this moment was not the daunting academic challenge that it is today. Medical school consisted in that moment of two identical consecutive 16 week terms of lectures. If you were lucky you got to do a little bit of dissection, but you could graduate from medical school without ever having interacted with a living patient. Elizabeth had some confidence that given her own intellectual abilities if she found her way to a medical school, she would have no trouble succeeding once she got there. So at the age of 26, Elizabeth Blackwell wanted mission to a tiny rural medical school in Geneva, New York, as you just heard in the Finger Lakes region of Western New York State. This campus has since evolved into Hobart and William Smith colleges, if you are familiar with them. On the left, the medical department, as it would have looked when she was there, that building no longer stands, and on the right is the spot where it once was. Elizabeth's admission to Geneva College was something of a farce. She had been studying privately with a prominent physician in Philadelphia who had written her a letter of recommendation. She had already amassed a sheaf of rejections from all of the more mainstream medical schools. And when her letter of application and her letter of support from this Philadelphia doctor reached Geneva, the faculty of tiny Geneva College wasn't quite brave enough to reject the word of this Philadelphia physician out of hand. So they punted, they punted the question to the students and said, here's this outrageous request for a woman to come and study among us. We think you students should decide whether it is all right for her to come or not. If one of you has any objection, she won't come. And they figured that would keep them safe and kick the ball down the road. The students, recognizing that this was an opportunity to have some serious fun, unanimously returned the answer that yes, she should definitely come. They assumed it was a prank being cooked up by a rival medical school. The very idea of a woman studying the processes of the body in the company of men was so outrageous that most people couldn't imagine that this was a genuine request. Then they promptly forgot about it until three weeks later when Elizabeth Blackwell walked into the lecture hall. She graduated at the top of her class in 1849 and her thesis was the lead article in the Buffalo Medical Journal. Her thesis on ship fever, which she had received some exposure to by virtue of spending time at Blockley Alms House in Philadelphia in between her two medical terms. She needed some practical training though because as I mentioned, you could graduate from medical school without very much. So like many American medical graduates, she went to Europe, which was where the real centers of medical education were. She went to Paris to a public maternity hospital called La Maternité, which still stands. It was housed in this convent. It was here in a public hospital where serving the destitute because if you had any money at all, you would have delivered your child at home serving a population of poor women that she began to make a connection between poverty and disease and to have a growing sense of the importance of public health. It was also here that she underwent a crisis that changed the shape of her career, if not its direction. She contracted from a patient an infection that led to the loss of one eye. Many of the women in this in the patients in this hospital were infected with venereal disease and an infant that was born to one of them contracted gonococcal conjunctivitis. Elizabeth was tending to this infant and some of the washing water splashed into her own face and she was quickly confined to a bed in the hospital in which she had been working because although today with antibiotics, this would not have been a terribly serious thing to heal. In 1849, when it occurred, it was a catastrophe. She was confined to bed and put under the care of the wonderfully named Hippolyte Blow, an attending physician at the maternity hospital that she had become friendly with. This is one of those moments where the biographer has different accounts to draw from and needs to kind of braid together different perspectives in order to arrive at something that approximates the truth. Elizabeth was friendly with Dr. Blow and 50 years later in her own memoir she wrote about this crisis of health this way. How dreadful it was to find the daylight gradually fading as my kind doctor bent over me and removed with an exquisite delicacy of touch the films that had formed over the pupil. I could see him for a moment clearly but the sight soon vanished and the eye was left in darkness. It sounds almost like a romance novel. However, at the same time in Paris happened to be Elizabeth Blackwell's eldest sister Anna, another pioneering Blackwell sister who as this portrait suggests wonderfully was something of a drama queen. She was a journalist and rushed to Elizabeth's bedside to help look after her. She spent all day looking after Elizabeth in the hospital and then at night she would go home to write letters reporting on her sister's condition to all the rest of the Blackwells back in America. This was what she wrote. The pupil presents just now the appearance of one of those little misshapen Blackberries of three granulations and half dried up that one sees so often on some scrubby little bush. If you can fancy one such in dull looking lead you have just the appearance of this poor eye. A very different account and that it becomes the job of the storyteller to braid these together. Elizabeth eventually lost one eye was fitted for a glass prosthetic. If you look closely at this portrait you can see that there's an asymmetry in her gaze but most people were not aware of her disability. She never spoke of it. But it did orient her more and more toward public health and policy and away from practice. Surgery was now not an option for her with her reduced vision and even reading could be painful sometimes. So more and more she was moving away from practical medicine and toward public health. Did she go home to convalesce with the rest of the Blackwells in America? She went on from Paris to London to seek further training at St. Bartholomew's Hospital, another large public institution. And there introduced by mutual friends she made a fateful acquaintance. She met Florence Nightingale. This is 1851 so Florence Nightingale is not yet the global celebrity that she became after the Crimean War. She is a young woman from a wealthy family chafing against the expectation that she settled down and get married. And I like to think of her encounter with Elizabeth Blackwell as a catalyst for her own extraordinary career because here is a young woman come from America turning her back on marriage and motherhood with a medical degree studying medical practice all over Europe. To Florence Nightingale this must have seemed like an amazing confirmation of her wildest dreams. The two hit it off and really enjoyed spending time together and discussing their big ideas for the future. Although they did quickly hit a divergence in their opinions. Florence Nightingale really believed that the place of women in health was as nurses and Elizabeth Blackwell wanted to demonstrate that a woman could be a doctor. But Nightingale's ideas about hygiene and sanitation became very important to Elizabeth Blackwell's work and they always kept in touch throughout their lives. After finishing her training Elizabeth Blackwell chose to return to New York where she assumed that she would have a thriving practice of women who wanted to consult a female doctor. But in this she was wrong because in 1851 when she returned to New York the very phrase female physician did not mean bright young woman with a medical degree. It meant someone like Madame Rastelle the notorious Fifth Avenue abortionist. Someone who worked on the wrong side of the law in the shadows. This is a caricature of her in the National Police Gazette showing her as a demon eating a baby. You did not as a respectable woman you did not consult a female physician that had a taint of scandal. So nobody came to call upon Elizabeth and consult Dr. Blackwell. Meanwhile Elizabeth had sort of anointed her younger sister Emily five years younger to follow her into medicine. Elizabeth realized that medicine was going to be a lonely and arduous path for a woman and she wanted some company. She esteemed her own family more than just about everyone else in the world and so she chose Emily as her most brilliant sister and next youngest one to follow her. And Emily who was already showing inclinations towards science decided to say yes to this and actually became the more brilliant scientist and practitioner because she was really drawn to medicine itself the practical side of it not just the idealistic side. Emily who was actually the more talented one had to fight even harder for admission because in the wake of Elizabeth's success the male medical schools closed their doors ever more tightly against women and meanwhile female medical colleges had begun to emerge so no men's medical college needed to accept a woman anymore. Emily however wanted a credential as impressive as her sisters and eventually fought her way toward study at Rush in Chicago. After a year at Rush they asked her not to come back because the discomfort of having a woman with them was too great. Undaunted she continued and finished up at Cleveland Medical College which has now evolved into Case Western. Then she too needed practical experience so off she went to Europe to Edinburgh where she became one of the assistants of the prominent physician James Young Simpson he was an obstetrician and gynecologist he was a physician to the Queen he was a professor at the University of Edinburgh he was the man who had discovered the anesthetic properties of chloroform he was a very big deal he was also something of a showman and it was pretty clear that he enjoyed the shock value of having a woman among his assistants. At the same time he very much respected Emily as a medical talent and taught her a great deal. He taught her some of the tools of his trade including instruments like these a stem pessary which would have been used in cases of uterine prolapse for women who had had too many pregnancies the instrument below that is one that he invented Simpson's uterine sound an instrument used to measure the dimensions of the cervix Emily is learning how to use these and writing about them constantly home to Elizabeth who is languishing in New York waiting for patients who do not come you can see on the left side of this letter Emily's sketches of the instruments that you just saw in the previous slide teaching her sister everything that she is learning in Edinburgh from the start it was important to me to make this book a story of both sisters and not just Elizabeth Blackwell first woman doctor but it's difficult when you are writing a double biography when one subject is more prominent than the other Elizabeth wrote more, more was written about her being first will always draw the attention toward you so what do you do when the material about your second subject is not quite as robust one of the things you can do is read their writing and then go and follow them around Emily Blackwell was writing copiously about her experience in Edinburgh so I went to Edinburgh and followed in her footsteps as much as I could to try to expand on what I understood about her experience which was both fascinating and extremely fun this is 52 Queen Street James Young Simpson's home which still stands it's the only one in the row with an extra story because his household was bursting at the seams this is where Emily would have come every day to his consulting rooms to assist with his patients the day I walked by the door was open so in the spirit of following in the footsteps I walked in it's now a I think it's a drug counseling centre so I wasn't exactly trespassing on private property but I was able to wander around on the bottom floor a little bit and get a sense of what Emily would have confronted every day when she walked in including James Young Simpson's initials still worked into the banister of the staircase it's these details I think that really enlighten what you know about someone's experience the Royal College of Surgeons in Edinburgh has a wonderful pathology museum full of artifacts I wasn't allowed to take photos but this is a sense of my notebook in the middle there on the left is James Young Simpson's pill case which says please return to 52 Queen Street under the lid on the lower left his monoral stethoscopes in Ivory and Rosewood I liked to think that maybe Emily had held these very instruments in doing examinations on the patients who came to Queen Street they even had the decanter in which the chloroform had been held when James Young Simpson discovered its properties of anesthesia Emily is learning to be a doctor in Edinburgh and a very good one but it doesn't protect her from the same kind of satirical snark that her sister Elizabeth has previously come in for this is a cartoon from the London satiric newspaper Punch from the end of Emily's time in Edinburgh it is meant to depict Emily on the right wearing the scandalous bloomer costume of the women's rights activists and a ridiculous hat a rather mannish profile peering through spectacles at the only patient who would ever consult a woman doctor, namely a lap dog being clutched in the arms of a much more conventionally feminine and appropriate young woman the accompanying article said something about women doctors only really being good for taking care of their husbands and children because what they should really do is get married Emily and Elizabeth happily were fairly immune to this kind of ill will Emily finishing her time in Edinburgh joins Elizabeth in New York City and together they found the New York infirmary for indigent women and children in a building that still stands in Greenwich Village as it was on the left and as it is today it was the first hospital staffed by women and their intention was not just to give women a place to consult doctors of their own sex but also to be a place for the slowly growing numbers of female medical graduates to consult to get the practical experience that they couldn't find otherwise without having to go to Europe I was privileged to get to know the woman who owns this building and see inside it I actually wrote the chapter about the infirmary inside the building it's undergoing a restoration and so you can see the original sash windows the original hearths, the brick work, the rafters being inside the spaces where the history takes place it makes it feel a bit like the veil between past and present is especially thin as you might expect the Blackwells played a prominent role in the Civil War just after shots rang out in Fort Sumter in 1861 the sisters called a meeting at their infirmary of their donors and supporters and drafted this appeal for the New York Times to the women of New York and especially to those already engaged in preparing against the time of wounds and sickness in the Army in response to this appeal thousands of women gathered at Cooper Union another building that still stands in Lower Manhattan out of this incredible meeting grew an organization called the Women's Central Association of Relief and out of that organization called the U.S. Sanitary Commission so if you like you can draw a fairly straight line from Elizabeth and Emily Blackwell's living room to the most important civilian organization of the Civil War Elizabeth and Emily became the ones in charge of the committee that whose job was to vet and train young women to be nurses at the front they threw themselves into this work they thought at last this felt very much like the world Margaret Fuller had imagined of men and women alongside each other for the greater good but they were quickly disillusioned because it became clear that New York's male physicians were not all that interested in working alongside female doctors as colleagues they preferred women to stay in more familiar roles of nurses or organizers and the Blackwells began to feel a bit slighted in Washington the lead leadership role for a woman named Dorothea Dix who was not a medical professional in any way she was a lobbyist and an organizer but the Blackwells did not have a whole lot of respect for her Elizabeth Blackwell was known to refer to her as the meddler in chief because of all this the Blackwells eventually withdrew their support for the war effort and turned their attention to a new project a rather ironic project Elizabeth and Emily Blackwell had no real respect for the women's medical colleges because they thought they turned out an inferior product but they believed firmly that women should study medicine alongside men but as long as inferior women's medical colleges existed the men were not going to accept women to study alongside them and so this was a frustrating impasse and in the end they changed their minds and the Blackwells sisters decided yes they would open their own women's medical college they were more rigorous than even the ones they themselves had attended it had a degree of rigor that was far higher it was a longer program the courses did not repeat they built on each other there was more practical bedside experience so that's the arc of the Blackwell sisters professional lives but personally their lives were just as interesting both sisters adopted daughters Emily lived with her partner and female and fellow surgeon Elizabeth Cushier two of the Blackwells brothers married two of the most prominent feminists of the day Lucy Stone a suffrage activist and Antoinette Brown the first woman to receive to be ordained as a minister in this country to complicate matters further Elizabeth and Emily didn't really agree all that much with these women's rights activists who had now joined their own family the Blackwell sisters were somewhat out of step with the women's rights movement as it emerged largely because they didn't believe that suffrage should be the first priority according to Elizabeth was fairly vocal in saying that giving the vote to women before they had established their own independence was essentially giving more votes to men who would tell their women how to use the vote she thought that was wrong headed that's part of the complication of this story is that it isn't necessarily what you'd expect as a story of emerging trailblazing women Elizabeth and Emily didn't agree with their sisters in law and they didn't always agree with each other either they even though they built the infirmary and the women's medical college together they disagreed somewhat about what it meant to be a woman doctor but Elizabeth again public health was more important she believed that a woman doctor should be a teacher armed with science while Emily really believed that a woman's role as a doctor was to be a physician and surgeon and medical professor as talented as any man so after these institutions were founded and with some relief the sisters parted ways and spent the last four decades of their lives on separate continents Elizabeth went back to England where she had always wanted to return and did a lot more lecturing and writing than actually seeing patients Emily remained in New York and ran the institutions that they had founded with great skill until the end of her career ironically supporting her sister's legacy it's usually just Elizabeth so that's the outline of the story and please if you have any questions about it please do feel free to put them in the chat and I'll get to them in a minute this moment as we celebrate the inauguration of our first female vice president and as we all focus intensely on public health it feels like a particularly good one for the Blackwell story I like to finish with this photo as a meditation on what the Blackwell story can mean in this moment if you Google Elizabeth Blackwell and you go to images this photo comes up every time it graces the covers of biographies it's on websites and articles documentary films it comes up all the time it is a beautiful photograph of a woman who seems to be contemplating an exciting future it is not Elizabeth Blackwell how do I know that? well if you flip it over you know that it was taken by Dana's photo portrait gallery in New York on 14th Street and 6th Avenue a studio which did not exist until the mid 1880s when Elizabeth Blackwell would have been in her 60s this clearly is not a woman in her 60s it's probably one of her nieces but it's interesting to me that the misidentification persists why is it that everyone wants this to be Elizabeth Blackwell? I think it's because this is how we like our heroines to look we like our heroines to be adorable we like them to be likeable and I think the Blackwell story is about women who really didn't care what the world thought of them they wanted to prove a point they wanted to be excellent they wanted to change the world and they were prickly and contradictory and complicated and very real heroines so I think it's a wonderful moment to reflect on them and to try to do a little better at accepting at admiring women women and men who aren't necessarily always admirable but are always human I'm gonna stop the share right now and take a look and see if we have any questions here's one Elizabeth became a doctor to move society to the next level of enlightenment but resisted women's suffrage and contraception do you have any sense of how she thought enlightened society would work? that's an excellent question Elizabeth Blackwell lived at a level of idealism that was often out of touch with anything that was practical the questioner points to the fact that she resisted the idea of contraception it's true, she believed that it was important to limit family size but that women should just do that by saying not tonight, dear which was impractical she, you know, as someone who remained unmarried did not have children of her own stayed sort of to one side of a mainstream experience for a woman women's suffrage was often a little bit out of step with what practical life really looked like I think having read Margaret Fuller she really believed in a world in which men and women would eventually walk shoulder to shoulder sharing work and leisure she was very interested in the work of Charles Fourier who espoused a kind of utopian philosophy called associationism in which people would form ideal communities called phalanxes and she was always talking and thinking about that but in fact I think she had trouble ever finding the people who were perfect enough in her opinion to join her in such a community her idealism kept her from being able to collaborate and that was sort of both her triumph and her tragedy in a way I wonder if there are any more questions or comments well I appreciate the time and I'm hoping that you enjoyed this and to know that there are so many more stories that I did not have time to get to and I hope you'll explore them in the book thank you so much for having me


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Welcome back. Nice walk in the sun. Nice and humid for a Riverland day. Exactly, that's what I thought you'd say. Right, we're going to do a panel session here. Questions answers your questions, they answer it. That's how this is going to work. The people who are up here, you've already met Ollie, Andy and Peter. We also have Ben, Brett and David. What I want to do is for Ben, Brett and David just to give you a minute each to very quickly introduce yourself. Rather than me do it and get it wrong, I'll let you guys do it. Ben, if you want to go first. Yeah, get over it. My name is Ben Wibbler and I'm an Industry Development Officer with the ABA. Our primary role is really to represent the peak body at a grower level, state level, national and international level. We do that by liaising with government bodies in our R&D programs, whether that be on the ground here with the ag tech companies. We have investment going with SARDI, Plant Health Australia and our primary role really is to drag all that research back to the growers and try and get adoption on farm. So that's I guess a quick overview. Well done, I love it. Less than 60 seconds, that's the best. Brett, I'm going to do you next. So microphone there from five minutes down the road. Testing 125. Right, I'm Brett Proud from Lockston North, so only a few minutes away. My family's been farming here for very nearly 100 years. My grandfather was involved in the construction of the Humphrey Pump over at Cobb Doggler and when that was completed came over to Lockston North and helped construct the first two steam driven pumps on the river back in the early 1920s. So I did have a professional career for over 20 years and I've been back here on the land on the farm for approximately 20 years now. Our family business is called Sherwood Estates and it's actually has a quite unique business structure. It does mirror Bullaburra, if you're familiar with Bullaburra, the broad acre operations here in the Riverland and Malley. We now operate 200 hectares of vineyards on 10 vineyards just here and we've just gone through an internal restructure which I won't go through all the nitty-gritty details but we have family, all those assets being operated by Sherwood Estates, the company on behalf of all the family owners of the property. So that's been very very successful. I have just recently retired as the past chair of the Riverland Wine Great Grows Association which I had been for three previous years and I've been on the Riverland Wine Great Grows Association and Riverland Wine for the last 11 years. So you know I've sort of contributed, our businesses contributed a significant amount to representing you know the farmers of the region. I was also a member of the Wine Grape Council in a number of roles for I don't know five or six years so again I've sort of contributed at that level as well. That's on the farm stuff. A few years ago Pears were invested a fair bit of money into a project called, I forget, establishing a model for a cluster of premium grapegrows in the Riverland, something like that. Anyway that went through to the end and the people involved in that actually didn't materialize into a cluster itself. But one of the other people involved and me having very very similar family situations so multiple brothers over 200 hectares, 6,000 tons we thought well you know so much of what we do is on the same page. So along with their independent chair because believe it or not that family is actually a collaborative farming venture as well modeled off of ours. So we have a independent chair who's the same person and we also engage them to be the independent chair of Riverwine Collaboration which this year will be a 20,000 tonne wine and grape business. So the two shareholding families and the nine other families sell all of their wine grapes to Riverwine Collaboration which then sits down and works out what we do. So we sell grapes as grape right through to making wine etc. So you know if you talk about irrigation our family's been here right from you know the construction of the Humphrey Pump and the steam driven pumps and we've been farming 80 hectares now for nearly 100 years. So a fair bit of family history right here in the district and in irrigated agriculture. Well done cramming that much into two minutes. 100 years worth into two minutes. Well done. We've got the two minutes. That's alright you've done well I'll get you for that later on. And David you're a couple of introduction please. Yeah I'm David Zadow, I grew up Blashtown, one great grow up Blashtown. Similar to actually Brett my great-grandfather settled there in 1896 and put a steam pump in and flutter irrigated all the property that's above the lock that before the lock was in. So that's we've had land there since then. A lot of farming been in grapes for 60 years and yeah it's probably probably about 20 or 17 years ago when we converted to drip from overhead irrigation. That's when I really started my automation egg tech journey and I suppose a lot of those things have sort of come along the way a lot sort of trying to get things that I couldn't get off the shelf. So we had to sort of get a few smart people along the way to help me out and get a few things and now there's a lot of products out there that actually can do what I couldn't do then that I was able to do. So it's really exciting, it's good to be part of the vidiviser as well. Finding that's really good and yeah just yeah and things like this are always very good. Excellent all right cool. So there the introductions out of the way, it's time for some questions. Now when we wrapped up the last session with with Pete I did cut Mark off and he wanted to make a comment there. So to make to make good on that Mark I know you just want to make a comment but I'll let you go. My comment was simply that the precision irrigation down to maybe individual trees or at least small areas is being researched and developed. It's pretty messy at the moment but it's something that is on the cards where it'll go who knows. Right no worries Mark. I didn't want to get that in because it was worthwhile mentioning as well. Pete do you want to talk to that though? I mean I know the question was individual plants and irrigating them and as Mark says it's still a little bit messy but is it are we getting better at it? Are we making advances here? I would be the least knowledgeable person on that subject going at the moment. Brett do you want to jump in there then instead? Yeah I can add a little bit. With our operations for now four years we've used all the GPS auto steer digital mapping whole box and dice on our 200 hectares. Part of that is actually digital mapping of our yield. So in essence every meter of our property is is filed away and and what we do is we actually use that data to then prescription spread our nutrients. So during the winter time now you know association with our agronomist who will then work out a blend we then go through the whole 660 kilometers where the rate that is distributed is dependent on the yield data. So as each year goes we'll just use layer upon layer upon layer of that data to then determine what our prescription spreading will be with nutrients. So in a way we are doing it vine by vine I'm not sure that it regulates that quickly because we actually do the yield doesn't vary that much but if I had a yield map of 2020 and a yield map of 2021 it's just so incredibly obvious that the evenness of yield across the patches is so much better. So it's quite remarkable. Andy obviously you want to jump in here? Yeah really it perhaps an observation from somebody who is measuring stuff down at the pervine or per plant level and what our clients are asking for us in terms of deliverables out of that and so two things come to mind one is for companies that are looking for robotics and automation well they actually do want to know the precise location of every single post because that matters in terms of where an autonomous tractor is going to go as compared to somebody who's putting out a variable rate of mulching then you know five or ten meters is probably okay they don't really need to go down to that pervine level also it kind of comes back to this point earlier about it depends on the problem. Any questions you might have? Yep Hans Loder from Penlia State in Canawara but the question sort of in the context of I'm a 2021 Northfield scholar looking into data management for viticulturalists and I sort of look at this individual plant or unit mapping creating the digital infrastructure to actually manage the data do you think it's that will in itself lead to more growers asking for this prescription farming down to the individual vine or unit plant and similarly do you think there's just not the critical massive growers who even realize that it's possible already in my mind to do that and therefore just not asking for that solution. Who'd like to have a crack at this one? Hans yeah we probably talked a little bit about this last week and certainly Collaboracultures talked a lot about this and I think the observation around that would be that it's a bit of both I think in our own mind in terms of what we do or the tools we've developed we've really only had that model for six months so we haven't had an opportunity to go out fully to market yet and talk about the benefits of that type of approach so yeah it's probably a little bit of both and then I come back to my earlier observations around well what are you trying to fix if it's spray applications in a particular crop type that's probably going to look a little bit different in viticulture to what it would do in orchards and so really trying to formulate through well what's what's the solution to the problem and where does that super precision come into play and where doesn't it and I think that example of the guys who are coming out with autonomous robots well it's super important you want to know you're not going to crash into something. David yeah Hans I think from my perspective being a single operator with another worker that works half a day a week I know my vineyard I've known it for 25 years I know it pretty well recently I had Sarah's imaging come and do some imaging after a frost we had and I know that I've got weak spots and I know where they are and I know that if I focus on just them I'll increase my yield by five percent so that's more macro but then when I got the data back from the imaging I'm going maybe I underestimate it maybe it's more like 15 percent so I really actually should put some more urgency into focusing on those weak spots which is purely just getting higher pressure or putting extra valves in I have all these things in the shed I just haven't prioritized putting them in but I can see that it's going to actually make an instant result to my yield if I put it in sooner rather than later to get extra pressure to the end of the drip line so I get the extra water there and get the extra yield all things I've known things I haven't thought were as important but now I do once I get that then I could probably start to worry about that Mac that really micro level per vine but at the moment just some data just to get you started to you know focus on the big stuff get on top that makes a big financial impact and then you can go to the other stuff oh I think just building on it as well that I think we all know the sustainability waves hitting us pretty hard at the minute and it's a pretty certain reality that water prices have go up fertilizer prices are already up you know grow is it going to have to put things exactly where they need to be so I think it's more of a reality than a question just at the minute but you know the curve of the the early adopters and the innovators and that sort of thing you know I think that'll that'll kick in pretty pretty quickly Brett sorry yeah my point was going to be I think there's some other questions which lead on with that and it comes back to and hopefully my blood pressure doesn't get too high but I suppose my disappointment in this whole environment and context is that we've actually forgotten that the work that all the innovators are doing should be based on the problems that are identified in the co-design of the whole issue of I was on Riverland wine management committee for over 11 years and I can't recall once any anybody coming to an industry representation body saying what do you think of the problems that your industry faces that we need solutions for so to then in a way be confronted by today where we have people trying to sell the solutions I family believe we haven't invested any time in a genuine search for the problems now I'm not undermining the technology all I'm saying is that the tech the money invested into the research would have been better placed solving problems which were real and if you then go to the extension and or the adoption and extension of the technology that will then become automatic if it's solving identified problems so you don't actually have to go and sell the technology on the hope that you find a problem because you know that you will have solved a problem so you know you're right about early adopters I mean you don't have to convince me about technology I mean I own a 200 hectare well half a 200 hectare vineyard and we've invested hundreds of thousands of dollars into technology so I'm not anti-technology but what scares me right at the moment with our business is that I'm staring at a rabbit warren of technology so unless we get vidivisa or some digital platform which can collect all the data process it and then use use the data that comes out of that why why would my nephew who's in essence our tech guy on the property add to his 26 apps I mean having 36 apps it means he's going to do less work and sit there and look at his phone so unless we coordinate the technology we're just going to disappear down into a rabbit warren and I'm not sure that we're going to be any better off Brett I think you've touched on what Oli Andy and Peter were talking about this morning as well Oli I think you covered this as well but before I ask Oli to respond to what you just said what is the gap what where are the gaps at the moment is there too much data is it wrong data is it not being integrated properly maybe David you could comment on this as well after Brett I'll let you yeah I think there's two gaps one the lack of co-design right from day one right I've so the analogy is here we've got a lot of people going around putting really flash things on the roof of the building unfortunately we don't have good walls and foundations to the building so the stakeholders the growers those that contribute taxes levies contributions etc need to be showing the respect for the contribution to the industry and so their needs are met so actually having a good co-design effort and you've got to invest time and effort in it doesn't happen overnight and just asking me's not the solution to that either to me from our business I believe the biggest handbrake to our business is not on farm tech I reckon we've got that sorted with some really good relationships with with the tech people that's not ideal we need to take it further with a vitiviser model but I think the other major gap is our government and industry compliance systems right that's what is the handbrake to the real efficiency of the wine industry national nationally I mean we've got Dave sitting down there he knows how I feel about it the fact that when we have a fruit fly outbreak you know we bring out B doubles and pallet loads of A4 sheets of paper where you've got to write your name and address and your property number down you know a hundred times that should be instantaneous through a digital framework the same thing with the wine industry when we're sitting in a harvester at the middle of the night I should be able to get on the phone and have a live stream of how much Shiraz has been crushed nationwide why not why haven't we got blockchain technology in the freight of our fruit from our properties to the winery and then right through traceability to the consumer so I think that is a huge gap it may be rude enough to suggest the reason that that's a gap is that probably the people trying to get a commercial return on the technology see less of an opportunity in that area rather than going around and selling a new widget so please don't take offense David I'll get a couple of comments from you then I'll come to you Ollie I suppose I just based on my experience with all the apps that I have and the ones that I use and don't use for me I I guess a good example of a nap that I don't use very often that use the other night is I've got batteries on my house and I've got a portal which I can monitor that on I might have looked at three months ago I've seen they're watching TV I've got a message on my phone it's like oh it's from my batteries I thought what's that about and the power gone off it clicked over didn't know then I could get the portal up show the kids they could watch how much power they're using make sure we had enough power to get through the night all of those sort of things but then now I won't go to look at that app for another three months but when I needed it it let me know notified me and I could keep keep an eye on it and I suppose with a lot of my other apps like basically I just had to set one up is control my web I use that daddy when I'm where I can see my pressures I can see all the things I need flows if a valve's been working or not I guess I go to a lot of apps constantly but a lot of them I don't go to that I probably would like to go to but then I have one for my solar panels that emails me every day with a bar graph and I can see that okay some of the inverters didn't work check them tomorrow make sure they're working if they're fine and I just delete it straight away but it's a very simple quick visual thing and that's how I get across those things but the things that aren't quick and simple I miss and sometimes I don't get on top of them so if it could be a very effective form of notification that just tells you when you need to because if you keep getting bombarded with notifications you just ignore them all that's the sort of app I think that that would be utilized although you were talking about this this morning is you know the integration of it and I even Andy touched on it as well is it a case of too many apps doing too many different things for all too many apps doing all the same thing um I was gonna can I ask but you know some of the points that Brett raised if I could start there I would um yeah agree with so much that that that co-design piece like it's the reason that like we often do our meet-ups in lot 14 in Adelaide which is like the the government sort of hub for technology and like that's a a long way actually off away from the farming community and we've been really conscious over the last couple of years of getting developers out and on the farm and really hearing first hand like what people like actually seeing what jobs farmers have to do and hearing first hand from them like generally what's painful so totally agree there the best time we've ever done with platform we've had help like um tail tailors uh up in Claire were like our co-design partners and the best time I've spent is with the grumpest tractor driver operator in the world I sat with him in the jump seat next to him and you get to watch him trying to use he's been at that that vineyard for 20 odd years and he doesn't want to use platform he really doesn't he thinks it's big brother on him and watching him trying to use platform and getting him like his feedbacks invaluable and again we one of our like drivers is trying to get if we could ever get to a point where he feels platform is invaluable to him with one and so I totally agree that is the best time spent I would agree as well when you look at the the missing piece of the puzzle at the moment in the agtech ecosystem in wine um if we can get some of the industry reporting tools like we we all have to link into spray diary software we've got sustainability platforms and if those platforms can be open to receive data from other sources that is going to overnight create a viable digital ecosystem and that being closed literally just is the biggest handbrake on any innovation at the moment and again tons of stuff that is also useful for developers to um like you know like simple stuff we did like just um the list of grape varieties that exist in Australia there's like however many hundred odd grape varieties yeah you know when you're a developer and you're like oh what should I go and build where should I build it and you go and think oh I like wine I should go and try and build something in wine you spend weeks and weeks and weeks trying to just spin up the basic information that's needed to build something in wine because can you find in anywhere like the list of all the great varieties from a kind of author like a proper author authority in a usable way for you like after months we find it's in a pdf document locked away unreadable un but again there are any little baby steps but we've we've got wine Australia to publish that on github now in an open way so we start to make it usable but I I totally agree um that's like for me from the outside the biggest step and the opportunity cost of not having a viddy visor or such single uh digital platform is you don't have the data to benchmark so you know we've got sustainable winemaking Australia um again you know you've just got to go and fill out more a4 sheets of paper put your name and address and this and that and power yeah oh my gosh you know I'm just repeating all of this whereas if you had your single digital platform where every single bit of input went into your operation for the year um at the end of the year you go through your files find your you know your swa audit button push it and in you know two seconds you know you should have an audit done so that's a a good example of you know the lack of benchmarking capacity because we haven't had those digital platforms and so just in case I forget people everyone there's a few people laughing because they know that when I turn meetings like this I pull out this battered copy of a document that the federal government commissioned and EY produced it in 2019 I think if you're in this space and you haven't read this and you don't understand it and you don't believe in it get out of the tent because it is so obvious that you know agriculture has been so siloed through history technology has been siloed through history and we've had a very very inefficient expenditure of monies on technology and as a consequence we have inefficient farmers all because of siloing fantastic chapter in there on the case for change it's as obvious as anything and I think until our government departments like perza and saati etc read it understand it and actually have policies which back it up um you know we're going to be 20 years down the track with no data to benchmark things and we'll be having the same conversation again is it that the information or the um the data that's coming out is being held in a proprietary way rather than an open source way is that more the issue here brett's nodding ollie's not sure is that is that the problem that it's not able to be shared is that the drama here um I'd say that the you know in that that like little diagram you know the kind of storming forming norming like like the world of the agtech ecosystem so is definitely moving towards um better specified data so it's kind of more interoperable like we're not leading the world in australia I would agree like New Zealand is get is really super good at the moment of being really really joined up and they they basically have been working um not to try and make all of the data of agriculture in New Zealand go into one single super platform um but all they're trying to do is is help all of their ecosystem just to kind of coalesce around the structure of when digital information moves space especially spatial digital information moves between all of all these different people in this world they're just trying to make sure that the file format the um that is used to move that information everybody understands basically the structure of that file format and and uh and they've got like momentum because a load of really progressive people in New Zealand are adopting that file format and it's starting to work and it's only success breeds success I agree at the moment it's not there but these are all these kind of really they're not very sexy bits of work to do at all they're very dull but they're they're the foundations of what you can actually build like a house on uh yeah and I think an example of where that is required is that six of the major machinery manufacturers in Europe um have decided to get there and simplify or unify their digital uh platform so you know claus john dear etc instead of all running their own systems have now agreed to unify their system so they obviously see that a critical mass of a of a system is worth it and that's the run the risk we run as a business is if if we go and change the color of our tractor what the hell do we do for data peter can i get you to jump in and on here very quickly too we just get a microphone down to peter just uh because you're in the research space here and you know there's different platforms that you would work with as well you showed the dashboard earlier how does it all work for you like do you get it all to integrate properly or is that are there gaps in there like the it's still quite fragmented at the moment so um basically swans probably the best one at the moment for joining things together from various uh instruments that are on place and that's quite uh an admiral's way to be looking at it so that we're trying to get rid of the siloing that's going on some of the stuff that i like that's quite good is very solidly locked down on the intellectual property side of things so that's definitely going to be a hampering issue as we go down further i think as like new zealand's doing that there is an undercurrent that with if we're all independent we will all fail so the the collaborative idea of trying to bring in underlying structure and whether or not it's an overlying platform for the display of the data or an uh an overlying way of capturing the data that can be then um open coded open source to whoever needs it it's it's an evolving thing um i do believe we really are at baby steps with this uh it's something i've seen in uh 20 odd years ago with the idea of things like you know like intellectual property on germplasm it's very similar except it's technical information and it's very discreet stuff it's really hard work to get to the nuts and bolts of it it's um something that you invest a lot of time and money into and of course you want to return on it so uh if you do it in isolation yes you've got a chance you may make a return uh if there's an uptake of your particular product this is probably a naive way of looking at it but it's basically a case of that we have to have a paradigm shift here where if there's can be a start to where the underlying structure is there that if you are going to do this then there's a format to do that in and that we can share that across platforms we will grow together so i do believe it's it's it's starting to roll down the hill we'll see where it goes and it's it's going to be a real paradigm shift away from the idea of private technical information and knowledge that's going to make you profit it has to be a collaborative affair that we all win at some stage i can't tell you what that product looks like yet it's it's an emergent thing um i'm sort of right at the bottom of where i've got everybody's equipment and all their programs so and i'm sifting through it and like you say you don't want you know another 26 apps on your phone so and i'm already starting to make that judgment of what's practical and useful for this and that and the other and maybe sometimes we need to sit down as groups and then i can run over hurdles i have you guys can run over hurdles you have and we start to make that difference yes question down the back there i'm going to go against this cooperative thing if you look at history go back for 30 years computers were going from buildings that size behind us to suddenly sitting on desks and what happened to the technology we probably had about 15 different computer brands that came out and none of them spoke to each other so it's almost like we're in that situation now with agtech you know everyone's doing bits and pieces and we're looking for collaboration but what happened in evolution in technology is that we had things like microsoft then became to the table and won the race and became very profitable and a very large company now so we all use excel we don't use multi mate that never talked to excel we don't use all the other spreadsheets that were out there the same thing happened to apple they nearly went broke but then i think microsoft chucked in two million dollars saved them and now they're the company they are today and they've got that ecosystem between hardware and software and if you reflect on that it's in fact it was business that drew drove that how does business work well it looks at the needs of the community and looks at providing those needs and gets their wealth from that then to go on to further development none of those government was involved in so i suspect it's going to be a race with the technology there might be amalgamation of technology so that they can then become more financially viable and that'll be where we'll be in about five ten years time but we're not there now interesting thoughts any other you want to respond to that yeah thanks mike i think that's a really um a really really good perspective and you can feel you can feel it playing out right at the moment as well it's like the it's the thing that's quietly happening behind the scenes so everybody's like we work at this level and then at a different level there is this maneuvering between um aws uh and google and microsoft specifically all looking at how they can basically be the lead tech company and hitachi actually probably a little bit be the lead tech company when it comes to kind of world agricultural data and it's a really interesting um and and and people like aws are very quietly everywhere so when you're at lot 14 which we're we're based there's a load of aws people in the adelaide institute machine learning next door they are everywhere so much stuff sits on their platforms and it's a really interesting both opportunity and challenge for agriculture and grower groups and everything is like how do we um both hopefully make some that could be a really positive relationship or that could be not a very positive relationship uh but it is happening and again on the data side there's this again the federal government with kpmg's doing a thing called the aws agritech data platform or something like that and it's like that's big consultancies with multimillion dollar budgets working with federal government looking at you know like piloting loads of tech out the people that they will work with are going to be almost certainly hitachi google you know that that so yeah it's it's funny yeah two things working in parallel at different levels of the system here in in ag and yeah i think they will they will come into our world a lot in the next couple of years yeah right um i will point out lunch is just arriving so we'll do a couple more questions if you have one we do have one just over the side here yeah uh me again only i've probably got this question's probably directed at you a bit um in your experience in taking developers out to meet producers um something i've observed is this this ideal of wanting like having the problem and then wanting the solution and not having to deal with the steps in between now something i'm observing is is just how quickly the tech space is moving i mean like as a producer you know we've all just got our heads around what a shape file is and now it's all evolving to json files like how is how how can producers keep up without a translator needing to be involved in the conversation um yeah again yes you're absolutely right like everything is um is transitioning really quickly um it's not really i well i hope it will start to see it happen more here but there definitely feels like there is a need for like you know you get entrepreneurs in residents and all that thing that happens like we need things like developers in residents in rural places my co-founder lindsay she's been a real she works for one of the like mid north rda and she's been really trying to she's not yet got it over the line but she's been really trying to push that there's really great um zanes here who's a really awesome person who is local uh just finishing high school um doing some really exciting work and like just talking to him at the break he really needs developers here in loxton that he can engage with uh and again i you know you can feel it with certain farming enterprises they're going to need that level of resources to be able to call upon so um yeah in a really interesting challenge but it's not um yeah that doesn't function yet at the moment and farmers are completely at the kind of most you're very different hands as somebody knows this space technically very well but most everyday farmers really are very much at the behead there at the end of the chain uh yeah and it's it'll be very easy for them to be led in a not a positive direction where they're kind of ending up getting kind of hooked and locked into a certain tech stack and all kinds of things could happen over the next couple years yeah um Ben yeah way go so only that's a you know really interesting point it's how we get from a to b you know that journey of actually um the farmers that are keen to be involved in this technology not being lost and once people get bitten and go i've sort of gone down this path been led astray sunk 50 grand into that burnt it geez you know and it's it's quite hard so i think one of the pivotal questions is how we actually take willing producers who want to be part of this to get clear viable information and obviously loxton's part of that but how do you see um that the producer has an ability to filter that information coming through and to understand where best to hitch their wagon beware people secondary agendas that's what you get so often like everybody when you start to unpick it like has a secondary often has a secondary objective to move you as a producer in a certain direction and it's um when we worked with perso and wine australian did the mapping stuff we really purposefully built bought on board this guy called john bryant and john bryant um he's an open source gis developer one of the best in the world and like we bought him into that project so that he was an honest broker for platform and for and for um green brain who we were two people very easily we could have taken that project in our own in our own way for our own game not that we would but we had john there keeping us basically honest and he he runs like the fossil geeks like the open mapping event for the whole world and then we had people coming and talking to us who basically run the open source um things like um like open street maps which is the open source platform which powers like that google maps on your phone and stuff we had that level of people coming to talk to us who all come from from that open world and yeah just at the moment i would look you know um and it's good with viti visor looking to um publish an open source a lot of that work if yeah the more we can keep things open and and look for things that already have critical mass so again you'll often get pushed towards somebody's like helping somebody build their own little widget and if you see that happening my my what i would do is is is and what we've done is we've looked for where is the critical mass at the moment where's the gravity so in mapping that is things like open street maps there's a mapping platform called map box that tons and tons and tons of things leverage and we we think that the future of mapping in wine will leverage the mapping platforms which like power the world streets and power the world like everything and we just kind of that if we could place our bet anywhere we'd place our bet on the things that have the most gravity the best developer ecosystem are open and like yeah that that's where we place our money and i and i totally couldn't understand like so many people won't have had yet a positive experience um and we need to learn from that it's really hard but again a lot of startups are realizing that they have in agriculture are realizing that they have to like build build their widgets on top of these things it's like a paradigm shift and again it's sort of you know in that model it's like the paradigm shift that that has to happen people have to go through that dip sadly to start to to come out the other side only when you've everything's gone wrong isn't it that you work out what you should do like yeah i only work out what to do i only learned how to be a great grower by literally stuffing up everything and that's the only way i've i've learned and and it feels the same way with tech just to quickly add on to that i think almost as a couple of take home messages make sure you own your own data absolutely critical so if we start right at the bottom of the pile there's all this evolution in technology and software and all the rest of it but fundamentally make sure you own your own data and then secondly make sure that you can use it on whatever other platform comes along so this issue about interoperability is absolutely critical so if you end up with a bunch of data that you do own but it's locked into a certain service provider well it's not much good for you on the next platform that comes along has been the best since sliced bread so to speak so yeah two really critical things own it and make sure that you can use it cross-platform ben yeah i think in relation to your comment then i've heard a lot innovation is easier than adoption probably a bit of a pessimistic opinion but probably a bit of a reality as well so i think it probably comes down to a bit of an education game and collaboration with the agtech companies and peak bodies like ourselves and the research orchard here the one just out looks at north with us and start to bring growers in so that way you know it doesn't people don't get lost in the funnel of losing 50 grand or something to you know something that wasn't quite there so i think it's not just the agtech companies that need to be pushing it out i think it's yeah a collaborative approach between industry growers and ourselves excellent any final comments from anybody before we wrap up i know everyone's keen for lunch all right round of applause please for our panel


Today on the channel, the three idiots are taking on none other than Beerus the Destroyer, and he is anime and manga accurate, which means he can hikai and delete us from the game at any time. And I mean that. There is no healing, no items, no nothing that will save you from this. If you get hikai'd, you're gone. So will we be able to do the unthinkable and win here using Goku, Vegeta, and Broly? I have no idea. Damn bro!  Sure!  And Dino don't know how to follow instructions, bro! Well, no, no, I said you guys could pick whatever form you prefer. Well, you guys have a preference if you have a preference. But damn, y'all are short. I hope when they get here to train you guys out, and he's gone.   You're fighting a boost fight. Oh, why did I jump in with a little... Bro, did you not hear anything from the Weast Ebrief, bro? This is all about working together. We work together as a team. Hold on, hold on, hold on. We stand! We stand! Oh! Bro, I'm dragging him across the... Bro, I got Broly combos! God damn! Yeah! No, no shot! Wait, this rate might be a little too easy. My game is out of breath apparently. I got a key charge or anything. Perfect card? Okay, I got one. You did? I also don't have a key charge. I also don't have a key charge, so you're not alarmed. I need to transform. Oh, never mind! You just flicked him all the way. Bro, I thought you broke my nose. Oh, wait a minute. I know we're all just training, but Broly's getting mad. Broly getting mad. Broly getting rage. I wonder how well... Hold on, let me get that buff! Puny God, Avengers reference. Shout out Hulk, you know the one. Oh, nice card. Let's go, let's play the game. Bring a stamina, bring a stamina, watch, watch, watch. Okay, okay.  We can do that right now, Dino. Bring a stamina, bring a stamina. How about now? I can't, I'm not a skill enough player. Somebody help, somebody help, somebody help. Somebody more familiar with the intricate systems. There we go, there we go. Bro, where's the spirit bomb, bro? Right here. Faced through the ground. Yo, might be with this combo, Broly loves taking people to different zip codes. This is all Beerus God, this is free. Bro, Broly got bros in different area codes for these combos, hold on. Hey, don't block my gala gun with one hand. Come on, bro, watch this, watch this, what are you trying to do? I'm dodging it.  Because again, he was surprised how sure you were. Give me that. Hey, bros, leave me alone. Hey, Beerus, can you chill out, bro? Shit. Oh, no, oh, no. Let me show you what a real attack is, Beerus. Our break is stamina. You did kind of take it. Break is stamina now. We can't, bro. Yo, Loki, before we started, Rhyme said this would be very hard with normal characters because we didn't do damage, but I got behind it, Beerus, a little tanky. You know what, I'm throwing it anyways. What is going every? Break is guard, bro. Yeah. Do you see me? Do you see me? How long is his animation, man? He's dying. Bro, he's literally dying. Oh, brother, calling in his brother. Oh, brother. I see what you did. That was nice. That was nice. Blaster bomb. Oh, that's a good move. All right, he's immune. You're going to win, bro. He broke my stamina. Rhyme, keep holding chop off. You're doing great. You're doing great things.  Let me show you a real attack. Beerus, Osama. Oh, God, I panicked. I panicked. Broly combo, broly combo. Let me pick them up. Let me hold them lovingly in my arms. Yeah, yeah. Let's go, man. Oh, yeah. Let him know, Broly. Oh, yeah. Yeah, let him know, Broly. 2% three. Oh, my God. Brother loves his move, man. I want to start fighting him for real. I almost wish that move was more scary. Got him. Whoa, whoa, why is this? Whoa, this is actually sick.  Broly. Yeah. Bro, what was that? Was that like a cell max move? I don't know, but it was dope. Wait, bro, but this cannot be Broly's official move. So he is way too agile. Well, yeah, he's not even in this game. Oh. Yeah, oh. I just, I didn't know. I got you. There you go.  Yeah, of course you're not doing damage, bro. You're in Super Saiyan 3. These are gods, bro. Yeah, I don't need more. Did you not watch the movie? Hold them back. Hold them back. Show us the difference between that and 3. Oh, no. Why? I didn't even know he had a second Super. It had to be the cheapest one in the game. Damn. I got beers. I got beers. I got beers. Oh, OK, OK, OK, you get that. You don't want it. No parts of Sapa. Sapa. Sapa, you dare disrespect us? You did. I can't, I can't stop Sapa. He's in the middle of his eight minute ultimate, guys. Yeah, I was on the receiving end of that.  Damn. They didn't even have a witty like cat pun, bro.  Guys, Sapa might be killing me right now, guys. Guys, this is it for me. I'm going to have to perfect guard all this. I'm dead. No, sorry.  I did all the work, bro. And then you was just going to take it. This is not OK. It's not OK. Needs res. Get a, get a, thanks. Oh, bro.  What are you saving him for? Because you took my beer to waste me, bro. I'm the one who did all the work. God, I was trying to steal from the black man every day. You're so used to stealing it, bro. This is like a, you guys are actually doing some great teamwork.  Jesus, he was evasive for 18 minutes again. Stop it. Oh, get some help, Sapa. You child.  I destroyed all the key blasts. I'm not sure what he thinks he's doing anymore. Again? Another one. That's what he's doing. Stop. I told him so. I got fully charged combat. I destroyed most of the key blasts, but I missed one. And it didn't happen.  A child.   I know I heard the theme music. Oh, Dino, Dino, just get him up. Oh, wait. I thought you heavy broke him. Think about what you've done. I did. And bro is charging the Super Gala Gun. Yeah, I missed.  Yeah, get punched to get broke, come on. Embarrassing. Seriously, this is intense training. I didn't expect. No, no, no.  This is the plot of Super Hero the blooper reel. Yeah, this happened on the table.  And I'll go lying. He kind of got hands. He kind of got hands.  Clown. Clown, good sense. You weakly.  You see that? He just called me weakly when he said that.   Well, I'm not having key charge.  Hey, bro, I'm right there with you. Honestly, let me finish. Oh, no, I don't have the key in your mind. How about I finish him? All right, go ahead then.  You got a crumb of key, perhaps. I also could use some. A crumb of key. But guys, hey, fellas. That's a key, not healing. I can heal. Oh, it's been like 10 minutes. We're only just now getting to the high portion of this raid boss. Wease.   Let's just, yeah. I'm just going to make you cease to exist. OK. Bro, I imagine that's how normal teachers feel when like a student corrects them on something like, ha, ha. I will fail you. We'll take care of Wease. Five beers. Oh, OK. I can do that. Yeah, no, no, don't get in there, bro. Give me beer. Yeah, beer is parentheses, ultra instinct, bro. They call me Broly parentheses, wrathful. It's nice to meet you.  What are you at? What are you at?  Not as fast as me. Not as wrathful as me. Get your mans, man. He's attacking me. Damn! That's it. I'm transforming. Oh, yeah. They're so scared of Super Saiyan 3. Bro! Do you know if you got them, he is, bro. Bro, they say that's it. I'm kicking it up to a level they haven't seen before. I'm Super Saiyan 2, OK.  You handle it. No, god. I almost got a guide. I almost got a guide. I barely dodged it, fellas. Let's get a guide, bro. You are talking to a man that has a new appreciation. Oh, please stop disappearing. Boom, for the top rope. He's no god to me. What's a god to a Saiyan non-believer? Yeah, hold on. Let me get a piece. Let me get a piece. Let me get a piece. Boom! Bro cartoonishly dropped down to Super Saiyan. Something's wrong. He's a mere Super Saiyan. I don't need to go beyond 2.  Bro, how am I not? Bro, beer is altruistic.  A beer is normal. He was stronger. Oh, wait. No, he's actually reading me now. Guys, use your res. I'll pay you back with healing items. Oh, hey. I got you, bro. Thank you. Oh, damn. I'm beerish. Let me show you a true god. No! Deon, if you have your sensing beat, I would use it, bro. I don't. Oh, brother. I'm just on the other side of the lake. OK, I'm going to go with regen. Rod, hold them off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my god. Bull is not exactly known for being fast. I'm just Super Saiyan 2, man. Hey, bro, you got it. You're going to cop on me. They both open and cop on me. If I can res another health bar, I'm just going to spend it on you. All right. Somebody said no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. Do we have heals? Do we have heals? I do have heals, but I'm dead now. You won't be dead in a second. Watch out. Watch out. What? Oh, my god. We're dropping like flies. Dion starts making some of that health. He threw a hook. I'm following me. What happened? It was it was his second ultimate, bro. The cheap one. Yo, Deon, can you drop a bar health bar for a fella? I will try. Oh, wait, no. Now, do it now. Oh, no. I'm not used to healing you guys.  Now run it back with those same characters. We got one more attempt in us. Hold on, bro. But Dotto, you take it up a notch.  What do you mean? You won't believe in us? Bro, the sheer energy from that group of people would blow you guys three cities away.  Even, even.  I've never even seen that before. Look, look, look.  I didn't even notice that. I'll take care of Yu-Gi. You take care of the rest, bro. I'll be back. I'll be back. No, Yu-Gi's getting blown back, too. I do find it funny that we had so much confidence there.  Is he kid Yu-Gi-Oh? Yeah. You sounded so disappointed in yourself. Yeah. What is the exteriors spirit drill? Let's find out. Wait, he has this? Oh, let him know. No, do you have talking slow motion I didn't know he has the attack. Hey, hey, hit that again, though. Hit that again. One more time. It's that same super. Give me a bro. One more time, one more time. One more time, one more time. One more and then never do it again. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. That's pretty sick, dude. Bro said, wow. Anyway, I'm doing Broly combos again. Bro, I thought you guys were supposed to be training me, keeping my anger under control. You failed. Stop blocking, Beerus. Oh, break the stamina here. Bro, I'm going to break his back. He's up. What?  Why? Broly just swinging his arms.   Well, bro, my IQ went down, but my power went up. No, no, no, no, no. Not a problem. Be on dodge. Be on dodge.  Broly step. That was the final flash. It was the most impressive thing that you've ever seen. Stamina. Yeah, bro. Oh, drop with him. Drop with him. Watch, watch, watch, watch, watch. Sign of awakening. All right, it's your combo.  That was just a sign of awakening. I ain't done yet. I ain't done yet. Yeah. I had to just pretend I knew what was happening. Where you going, bro? Oh, oh, oh. Wait, what happened to 90% of my health? Yeah, welcome, finally, God. Yeah, what do you mean? What you mean what happened? You knew here. What do you got, Chopper? You killed Beerus. Not all. Me? No, I got him. No, don't worry, bro. Bro, I'm just doing my step of combo, bro. Fee, five, four, four. I thought I got away with it without my weight, bro. Bro, you know it's got to be embarrassing to be choppa when you have to go to the doctor and be like, yeah.  I don't know how to describe it, but I just know what I'm doing, that Broly combo, choppa. Oh, brother, hit him, hit him for me. I got you, bro, I got you. I just know when Broly was stepping on choppa's stomach like that, choppa's eyes were popping out like a stress toy. I just know that when you said to hit him, I did. But then when I need you to hit him, you didn't do it. All right, well, that's because you have experience with the Xenoverse wheel.  Go ahead, it's all yours. I ain't awakening. Go ahead. I'm just running with him. I'm running with him. Oh, brother, choppa thinks he's so cool.  Why did you not stop? I can't stop that, man. I couldn't stop that either. Woo-hoo. Boing, boing, boing. Hey, watch. Look how slow he is. Look how slow he is. He's so slow. So slow. Oh, my god. Oh, man.  Nice, bro. Good combo. That was crazy. Watch this, watch this. Editor, add the Super Mario one-up sound effect when you jump on too many Koopas in a row. Hold on, not yet, not yet. Hold on. Beerus has gotten tired of me. Damn, not the water. Damn, I'm so tired of you. I did all the work on Beerus. No, I won Beerus. Get up, bro. Get up, bro. Am I? Thank you, thank you.  Beerus is mine.  I'm trying, bro. Keep choppa off me, Dianne. Choppa's fighting, choppa's fighting. I just haven't had to keep charging a little bit, so I'm just doing that now.  Kinda, yeah. Hey, choppa. Choppa, off of me. Bro, he's posing. Why am I just fighting? Why? Why? Why? I got it. I got it. I got it. This is my water game.  Bro, you can't slow down my entire game and expect me not to talk and slow down. Oh, watch this. Dion Dodge, Dion Dodge. Call me a Xenoverse player the way I do. You don't get into it. You doofus. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. I did too much. Why do I have no invasive? Oh, my God.  Don't worry. Wait, I'm fine.   I was exacerbated. Oh, my God.  Shoot him for me. Shoot him for me. All right, Beerus almost dead. Beerus almost dead.  I have the one-up noise. One-up ding. Oh, racism's back in the building. Hey, hey, Rhyme. I can use some help.  I tend to be thinking of Beerus so fast because someone is not pushing his way. I won't be fighting for the next five minutes. Good luck. I'm no warrior and I will never fight again. Help!  I'm going to have to parry it. Parry? Parry it.  But he did activate my Supersault. Ah! I got him. What is going every? He's dead, too. Oh, my God. This is a fun move. Kill him.  Finish him. Finish him. From the top row.   What's wrong with you?  He's drowning. He's swimming like a fish. I went in here to calm down, bro. Isn't it crazy that what you were doing right there is what Dino's actual body is doing?  And then Dino just jumps in. I was lurking. I just saw you not finish your job, so I went over and did it. No, bro. You know you can't beat anyone by yourself.  Dion, you get UI Beerus, then. Solo, you got him. The real Beerus. Please don't let him kind me because I will cry. Oh, my God. That's not going to happen. Where are we? No. Damn, he is fat.  Yeah, Beerus. Bro, I like ice cream as much as the next guy.  Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Yeah, nice try. Oh, my God. The big foot combo. Oh, my God. Here it is again. Here it is again. Yo, he's not fighting back.  I got a heal or what? Yes.  We both used both of them. Bro, don't blame me for that. We both did it for him. They didn't communicate. Dino. Dino. What? And we did it for nothing. We did it for nothing. Oh, no. Get a guide. Rhyme, are you dead? Dead? Or like, are you a kind dead? Answer me in three seconds? Yeah, he's. Oh, no. I can see his spirit. He's gone. He's gone. All right. Well, that's only one of us down. And, you know, there is no, there is no life after that. So I wish we could see him at King Kai's, but it probably won't have it. I wish you pissing me off, man. Oh, no. We squeeze. I'm not.  Wease.  And I saved the sense of being for me. Leave him alone. I'm going to go into work right now. I just was fighting beers and we saw bro. I'm him.  Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, there it goes again. I'm sorry. Don't get a guide. Oh. I got kicked in the chest. I didn't even get to use my Senzu, bro. Hey, well, hey, at least we, at least we're here, bro. Take it away, Ryan. Give the outro.