Hello everybody if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my own little hang-on dangler book of points. It's Tom. What's up, buddy? Hello friends Are you doing a day Tom? Yeah, I'm doing pretty well. Good man. Yeah, me too.  Everybody's surviving. There you go. That's positive.  Okay, can I offer a clarification? Mm-hmm. This is an evil beard Tom This is number two beard Sure. Yes, you've actually trimmed it. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, like this is Riker beard. Oh, yeah on Friday. You were looking rough Yeah, yeah, this is right. This is Riker beard This is not evil beard. Sure. I'll buy that. All right, so number one What's up so so let's Let's talk about what's in the news man. How about that because there's there's a little bit of news this week Sure, let's talk about how I was right How about that rumor engine? It's up. It's up on the screen Yep. Yep. Okay. So so unpack why you were right Tom. I'm ready. We're clearly getting vampires Okay. All right. So this is a vampire thing. Okay. Yeah the hilt is very much like that You see the wrist guard, but like the naked arm again the wrist guard from the other side Um, yeah, it's vampires Like the hilt is is a lot like What's their faces hilt? Uh The old um Vlad his old sword Okay Okay So you you're you're saying, uh, this is not an elf thing No, no, no, this is this is vampire corsairs Okay Uh Because it it does feel like it could also be an elf thing I mean, I just want to point that out. There are seven models at least In that like shady elf range for war cry that we haven't seen sure Sure I mean, but I will grant you it does look like a very vampiric Flourishy nonsense sword. Yes with with no like with shoulder pads and no in no sleeves I think come on like it's like the other arm to that model we saw I what's funny about it to me is This came out and everybody was immediately like there's a contingent of people that were like Vampires and there were a contingent of people that were like elves And I then there's this the smaller part where they who realized this is an overlapping venn diagram And it could just be vampire elves and that our coastal vampires could all be elvish vampires I mean they could that's a possibility. Maybe they're all idoneth vampires that have been turned So because we we did get the clue from the dark elves if you'll remember this Yeah, we got the clue that uh the one corpse was like drained of blood Yes, it was the guy who was going into ulgu to investigate malarian And he was dead in his office and completely ex-anguinated. Yes without a drop of blood around which by the way is Basically a ripoff of the exorcist three. I've seen that movie Sure at any rate No, so what so let's connect some dots here in good old conspiracy theory style. Okay, um, So we are talking about dark elves. We're talking about vampires. We're talking about corsairs Could it be the release of the truly dark? like scourged privateers And so you get like the true corsair models that are elves but are also vampires. Okay Okay, so maybe there are some of the the the scourged privateers That are are turned in the vampire pirate army Yeah, I'm just gonna say it's a dark elf thing And that's just what I'm gonna go ahead and go with. Yeah Yep, do you think so? Yep. That's what I'm going for Yep That's my that's my guess there you go My guess is complete, but I yep, but my my other thought is uh that How long are we gonna have to wait now before we know all these because the rumor engines have all continued Right like like a year and a half unabated So, you know back when we first started the rumor engine thing. It was a long time before we We actually like we would have these huge lags In between and it's varied over time, you know, sometimes we we have to wait a while Sometimes we wait like a week and then they reveal the model, right? But with everything that's happened here One like with with what's been going on with them not being able to ship anything for two months plus, right? I see you have some children situation Tom's gonna tackle a children thing So with everything related to that I have to wonder like what's the actual distance Going to be here in between us seeing this and then solving this And uh, my thought is quite a while quite a while. I apologize for that. No, you're fine The situation has been handled. Okay Uh Anyway, so there you go. Who knows I like both of these calls I'm gonna love it when it's a super left turn and it is neither a vampire nor an elf Oh, yeah, totally like yeah, it'll it'll be pretty amazing. Yes. Absolutely. All right, so What's next on the newsy news? newsy news um Let's do uh, how about ghb. I mean this is related Right, this is related to our topic, but we we saw the shipping manifest like ghb has shipped Both the normal and the warlord edition. Yep. So that's continuing. Yes Those books are obviously those things are produced overseas not in the uk. So they have to be shipped quite early Because they get on a boat and that boat sails and then it lands somewhere else And I believe the label we saw was the receipt label. Is that correct? Yeah So that means it arrived, right? That was it that was it's arriving and it's Uh, like it was a bill of lading or something as it arrived in port I don't even know what that means. Oh by the way that hill somebody says something about silnash that hill actually looked a lot like, um Your pretty boy. He'll say gulp Sick bulbs.  Yes Um, if he had a dueling sword. Yes, so that's not quite what he had but sure I've painted that fig many times Sure, sure. Uh, so the other thing with that so related to the shipping label. I'm jumping back. Um Is Like it may be in port for a while and depending on how things are like with the current labor stuff with like inspections We don't know actually how quickly that may move Sure, and I say that to say that like I ordered some stuff from from Green stuff world. Okay um six weeks ago And it's still shipping Like it's still in process on like in customs like waiting to be fully like shipped within the united states Sure, so it got stuck in like the midst of like the traveling and or like inspection stuff Yep, I suspect that it's sitting in a warehouse somewhere on our coast Um, but the point of that being that like if that stuff's not all cleared everywhere It could really delay release potentially sure Well, let's say previously are this book would have dropped at the end of june, right? Right one can imagine that they would have wanted it to drop somewhere around the anniversary Right that that would have been part of what they would have, you know Celebrate the five-year anniversary with the new ghp and this and this right like they would have wanted Something marketing wise, so i'm sure that's what they're still are driving toward but unknown Why they're not they'd be able to hit it because that'd be a relatively fast turnaround I would have expected it in the second the first or second week of july is when I would have expected it Yeah, agreed. Yeah, now it makes you think like well, does that mean we get like an august ghp? This year right or or or September sure or later entirely possible But I mean I think that that's all up full of a bunch of unknowns, right like right Again, we don't know what the world looks like in two weeks let alone Let alone a month from now or a month and a half from now or whatever, right, so We'll have to keep playing it by year as it were I don't know. I'm gonna be having colon this rolls and dice in two weeks. That's well. That's true. That's that's happening. Yes Uh, but beyond that we don't know like my point is the world is uh, it's shifting around so indeed Speaking of shifting around Gen con was canceled. Yes Yep, that was a big announcement Gen con was canceled. I believe midwest meltdown was canceled Yeah, midwest meltdown another another victim of copin sure I mean the gen con thing was only a matter of time. I have to imagine that was more insurance space than anything else I don't I don't know that for sure But like that was never in the cards Like our life may be I mean seriously sure this year like we may return to some semblance of Life, I'm not a health expert. Listen to your local health experts Sure be responsible all that sort of thing But like what it seems to be the situation that we're going to evolve into here is We're okay to get together in relatively smallish groups You know workplaces that can will operate at you know low capacity that is to say like they'll have as few people in the office They feel is reasonable You want to get together with your friends? That's fine. You want to go get you know a haircut? That's fine that kind of stuff. But like if you but getting 70,000 people together pressed shoulder to shoulder For four days for 12 hours a day It's just like it's just I mean Most years I came back from from gen con and would be sick a few days later Right with some kind of sniffles Yeah Yeah, just because anything there got passed so fast. So like those kind of major events I just can't imagine those are in the cards when they're that big And that dense That's the other trick right like gen con if you if you've never been there Yep The best way I can describe it Is like if you've ever if you live in a place with a subway Say like um Say like the the tube in london or the subway in new york or the metro in dc or anything like this that I can that I've Written on all those at rush hour And when you get on one of those things at rush hour Chicago the l the same thing if you get on one of those things at rush hour, you're like Jumping into it and you're like you're literally like this Because you're standing next to other people at all points in time. They're just like it's a press of humanity against you Yeah, that's gen con but for like all the time just all the time for 18 hours a day approximately and It's just insane Yeah, I mean Especially if you're going to go into like the vendor hall or one of the busy halls right or or any of your like Any of the seminar rooms that they're packed because they're they're talking about something that's exciting or released Like sure you could wander around the sort of new board game area And it's pretty open and free and you're not really you can be not near other people But you take a step into that exhibition hall or the busy rooms Or stuff like that or or outside where you're waiting for lunch. Oh god Rides me. I need to uh, I need to get back to gen con. Um, we've missed you the past couple years, Tom Yeah, I know we've been having a grand old time I'm sure you have Uh So we also we heard that by the 15th we should hear from nova as well Yeah, that's the word that they well, they said, I don't know if it'll be the final word on the 15th But they don't know more information. Yeah, they said the next big update is on the 15th. So yep And so we'll see what that yields. Uh, Obviously june 15th Yeah, uh, we haven't heard anything about nash con yet. Um, although It's a small it's a much smaller convention and a much bigger space A much smaller convention much bigger space and it's in a city in a state that has is a lot more lax on its restriction Sure, I mean, but it's also only a couple hundred people. There's a difference between that and uh, There's a difference between a couple hundred people and again 70 000 or something like that, right, right? So i'm still crossing my fingers fingers for gen or for not for nash con We'll see. I'm really hoping that comes through But yeah Yeah, uh, so those are events. So there's things happening, but we do have a digital event coming Next saturday gw has announced a new Reveal show that is 40k only it's so big they could only do 40k Um, what is it vents? I don't know. I mean everybody's that the belief is of course that it's going to be the announcement for for the next edition Change right? I mean that it's the end of psychic awakening which is going to lead into the next edition That's been the that's been the running theory Which was what they did with malign importance if you'll remember They had this malign importance event at the end of the malign importance event They said in you know in a couple months new aos um Yeah, maybe I I am I know No idea. I mean, I'll certainly watch it. I'm interested to see what's going on in the 40k world I'm actually watching it just to see if they talk about it all when they think they're going to start shipping things again Uh, like that's that's one of the main reasons that I want to see what it is Like if they announce the next edition or what the end of psychic awakening looks like are You know chaos primaris marines and if it's like there's chaos primaris that that um That that crazy mad doctor figured out and cracked and made and uh, and also the end of psychic awakening And also, uh, it's ninth edition and the emperors back and you know, just like whatever, you know, I don't know pick any Pick all the crazy things You know, like I just pick it all man, you know, uh I would I would You know, I'd love for biggie to wake up some at some point.  Um It'll be interesting Do they do they make an emperor level rubicon crossing primary suit? Uh, just like I would just want it for the fig. I think you'd be amazing Uh, but anyways, uh, let's assume that every crazy thing you can imagine happens, right? Oh, thank you And as as paul mentioned, yes and a plastic thundershock. Yeah, there you go. Exactly Whatever it's all happening everything you've dreamed of it's all coming true Yes, yes, uh, you moved in your camera went out of focus tom Oh There you go.  It didn't know where to where you went Uh, so whatever the case of all of that again, I'll I'll watch with with interest I I like that kind of stuff. Uh, I'm interested to see what happens But really I just want to know like do we have an announcement on when engine war happens? And I get the rest of my city's a sigmar army Uh, do we, um Do we uh know when anything's shipping do they have any like I just want to hear You know, what's what's going on, right? Like give me give me some little piece of news about what you know and what your plans are Nope, uh, that's that's what I'm really keen for so you will learn none of that You're probably right, but But that's okay. I'll still hold out hope Sure. So there you go I'm gonna hold out hope Uh, but yeah, I'll tune in I doubt it'll necessitate a show for us afterward unless something really left turns I see a very low probability of us doing a show afterward because we're not a 40k show, so Unless suddenly like that That mythical merger happens when they're like It would have to be that well, there could be like an orthogonal announcement that we could that could be worthwhile like we're relaunching Forge world and it's all plastic now and and you know, like Here's all the 40k stuff and also they announced a bunch of aos stuff for the future of forgehold as well sort of tangentially Right, you know what my fear is I'm ready Is that forge world never opens That they just retire it I mean they were already talking about being in transition. Sure. Yeah and so like I would be really sad if that happened because there's a bunch of kits from there for my goblins that I want I'm not because I Okay, like I almost just wish they would retire that whole thing and do something reasonable with it I it's such a little like I just want my colossal squig And my gaba and I want like the better mounted guy And I want like the weird shaman that's all like tripped up and floating on on gaffes like Look, it's the appendix Of gw right now like and like troll hag like the troll hag is there Okay, cool, man At one point in our evolutionary history it had a point Yeah, it doesn't anymore It just accidentally gets inflamed sometimes and kills us when points don't get readjusted or a model's rules Don't get rained in properly and then it becomes weird So there you go. Yes, it's fine a specialist game support. I'm okay with that anywho We'll see much much to see so Mm-hmm I know soren said I don't want more Titans. Let me let me be uh, let me refine what I said about fordroll I don't I honestly I don't mind most of the 40k stuff They do I think the 40k stuff they do is actually useful because they run a huge range of valuable 40k stuff Unfortunately, the awesome today's vehicles, right all that stuff is super cool It's been a dangler in aos and I apologize. I should have been I should have been more Like careful with my words there because the problem is with the aos side of fordroll. It's just been so Like we've been running on the same sculpts for seven years Eight years ten years No longer in some cases. Didn't you buy those stormcast admins? Sure. Sure. Yeah No, my point is is that like a lot of those and like the monster a lot of the monsters Even aren't even really around anymore like half of them are retired the sculpts. They don't even make You know, uh, it's it's I saw the incarnate of flame And I was like, oh, oh, where's that model? I have I saw the same one on twitter. It's the first time I'd seen the model in real life.  Hello So like again, it comes around for 40k or get changed in its business practice But if it's gonna do something for aos, I wish you would just do something for aos like be part of it Right be part of actually what we're doing here. It feels much more synergistic With with 40k in the case of like the knights is a great example. You have two basic imperial knights kits Great.  That's the size of a child I mean, they just have like actually lots of nice stuff for knights Uh, I mentioned the tantalists or whatever it's called like the big dark eldar ship is really cool Like there's a lot of stuff like that. Yeah, that feels like it's part of the range And meant to be used there whereas this stuff now because it's because it's a different game Only gloom fight like glooms fight is the only one that you look at and go. Yep Um, but everything else doesn't like it doesn't feel right It feels like it it feels like a hanger on because it came over from what it was before Right and nothing ever got updated to like the new armies the new Styles the new whatever, right? So yeah, I agree. I agree with that. Yeah All right, anyways, we'll come back please. Um I so other things um We had a series of duels that happened this week And uh, a couple things were proved Yeah, absolutely. What was proved was that in fact Archeon is the best as rigorously scientifically tested Wow Of the mounted people of the of the yes of the of the like mounted god folk. Yes El Tharian Won the like foot based heroes Right.  I love the karnak. Look karnak went all the way. He got to the finals He did he's like I got multiple heads He was like ganzaga in there like getting real deep into the into the Into the finals, but just can't quite make it, but I was super thrilled how far karnak got Oh, man. He's a good dog But I like I saw like the like the starting lineups of all and it's like, oh, wow El Tharian's gonna win.  Yeah, absolutely. I mean as he just as he just murders everybody. Yes The the god matchup I thought was hilarious because of I mean the funny parts of the the sort of god or powerful matchup was um Was that a lariel got spiked like an just just like a football just So hard did she get splattered? They even made the joke about she's now the never queen And I was like, wow Well, I guess we're all just on board here that a lariel is no good Oh, poor girl. Yeah, I mean it was it wasn't even close Uh, I also enjoyed how bad the salastin prime died. He also got he got killed. He got triple killed by Clearly clearly He just wasn't being played in hammer hole. That's the problem here Well, the funny part about him getting killed as bad as he did is it's not like he and scar brand are that far apart at points Okay, yes, it's you know what I mean like You could see a matchup where There is a big points differential or something like that. You're like, well, of course this model one We would expect it to it's you know, like some of archaeons early matches, right? Because it's like, yeah, there's a So 400 600 point differential there or whatever like I would certainly hope That this model handily deals with the competition, right? Uh, but no it just like It just uh, yeah, she's on the level. She's that expensive and yet still here we are Anyway, uh, it was good to see Nagash go down like a chump. I enjoyed that. Uh He loses yet again One more defeat in an endless string of historical and constant defeats Uh So, you know There you go. That's what you get Nagash. That's what you get for being the lesser For a pretender to the throne there can be only one Uh, I think that's news. Yeah, that's we don't we don't really have a lot That's kind of where we're at Sure Other than your wife taking shots at you in the in the chat Uh, well, it's 100 correct. I will yell vindication at the slightest drop Because brooklyn 99 is amazing Uh, so, uh, all right Let's uh, let's talk about some pick of the week man.  So we're gonna see how it works I need to be fishing for a replacement player soon. So um but uh Fridays, we are going to be on a stream with mr. Mephisto and we're going to be playing soulbound folks So if you want a second dose of tom and vince Every week We'll be on mr. Mephisto's channel playing solo solo bound Vince is going to be uh role playing a scaven. Yeah Uh, and i'll be playing uh, one of my uh, one of my karadrongs So i'm i'm going to grow out my beard in dwarfy fashion um I'm not going we're not going to the other two people are chuck uh from uh, uh from obviously of of uh strength uh strength hammer and mr. Wichelt Mr. Wichelt himself mr. Wichelt himself. Yes, and then joe or hayway hayway twitch. So yes Yeah, and so the it'll be us four playing under uh, mr. Mephisto and it's going to be fantastic.  Well, like let them do their character. So yes So you guys it's going to be delightful. Hey, I I have a top hat. So I'll wear it. I'll do it. Sure.  Otherwise the top hat would be totally appropriate um So yeah, so we're gonna play and we're excited and we're looking forward to it. Yeah, and on that tip We'll be doing our soul bound um Soulbound review show next week Right, uh, so we'll have some some folks from not not from around here No, we'll get some what we're gonna have some of the Aussies on to to help us out to do the soulbound review show So, uh, yeah rock on, uh, I will also do this. So to help everybody find meff's channel early and see thoughts on soulbound Uh, I'll we'll just pile on here. I've actually got two picks that we I'd like to direct everybody to The first one is I'll mention that, uh, I was on rantcast recently with meff last last Saturday Friday, I don't know what you did. It was a great video And he and I went into a deep dive discussion about soulbound and it's piccadillo's a nuances So if you want to see a preview of my thoughts, uh, I'll go deeper on probably this and in a more organized fashion On our review show next wednesday, but if you want to see that you can that's, uh, That's his twitch stream. I'll link that down below. I also want to shout out a friend of the show, John Nenus They uh, he and scott, uh, miniac are doing their, uh, their podcast trapped under plastic They had a really really great episode this last week that I really enjoyed Which was a discussion about painting tabletop standard and what it means and like being happy with getting your army painted And on the table and stuff like that. I thought it was just a really good discussion about like What does that actually mean where to come from and you know, how should you treat it and stuff like that? I think there's always a lot of discussion about that. So I thought that was a really good talk I will link both of those down below and And there's another soulbound There's like so many soulbound shows dropping In the coming weeks. Oh And so like if you if the if this rpg interests you, uh, just keep an eye on our pics of the week because it's Going to just be like all over the place probably. Yeah, we'll frequently reference that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yep Okay Uh, so with that let's talk about some hobby time. What are you working on there tom? What's going on man? Um, uh, I put I got like all of those boxes or models okay and um And you can almost see it. I put together some uh more ko Um as if I I needed more I put together a thundricks. Uh Profiteers Profiteers, uh, which it dawned on me in writing my lore that like So do you remember when I wrote up the my blog like back in 2017 for my like my carat drawing overlords and I like You know did a bunch of lore stuff I like I you don't remember that. Okay. Thanks. Like back when you did your trap jaws Stuff and all that for your orcs for you don't remember any of this. Okay Anyways, so I've been a bunch of lore stuff Like I wrote up a big post with all my photos and talked about like the lore behind my skyport and all that stuff And it cracked me up Because one of the main characters there were like was named thruendrick Okay. Oh thruendrick. You're very close to kandrick. Yeah Yeah, and it was like one letter off thundrick and like so I'd been working on that and I was Or like sort of put them put them together. I was like, hey Wait a minute Nice. Well done. It's really close. Um, and so anyways, that was really funny. Anyway, so I put those guys together this week. Um and then uh Yeah That's it. Okay. Well, well, hey, that's something tom good for you. It is it is something. Uh my I mean so You really can't see it, but like it's it's close Like my loon shrine is really close There's some details like right here. I haven't done We better get them detail get them deeds. I got a highlight right here They're gonna do the eyes, but like other than that like I'm really close good. I'm glad to hear but uh, the reality is is that because we're doing this campaign I'm totally gonna be taking a break from all my goblin stuff to go back to my my dwarfs Because I'm all passionate about my dwarfs again. Sure. Well, that'll do that I mean, I will say in digging into this it it got me You know excited about a lot of things again It got me excited to to see what scaven I could get out and paint Finding a scaven model to represent my character is not going to be the easiest thing in the world I'm amazed I found art getting an actual scaven model is going to be real tricky Yeah, I I'm I'm it's funny I have enough old firesire models that I haven't done anything with But I can certainly cut up enough pieces of different models and for my bits box to build something That's going to be appropriate for my hero Not that I'm ever actually going to use it, but you know, sure. It'll be a yep All right, uh for myself. I've been working on a bust that I've Uh, I finished up obviously the my knight of zeros and my battle mage shared those out over the weekend And so I'm trying to alternate back and forth And so this is not going to show well here because she's she's very strange And she's in sub assembly. So it's going to be tough here, but It's not usually you have to paint busts and sub assemblies, but this one you do So I'll put one of her wings in Uh, but this is I've been working on this bust from, um Broken toad, which is this very sad sort of fallen angel and uh So there you go And I've been working on her a whole bunch and she's been a really fun time playing around with her She has two wings by the way. She I just I just can't hold both wings in place um But she's been having a really fun time with More more experimentation and work and practice with oil paints Uh, I'm wanting to make sure that I'm really putting it through a lot of paces before I Record my full fledged oil paint tutorial. There will be an oil paint tutorial coming soon Uh sooner than than than that there then there'll be a much deeper dive one about painting other colors So we're going to start with flesh because flesh is one of the easiest things to do with oil It's also one of the most fun If you ever have had challenges painting flesh Uh, you know, then I highly recommend you watch the oil paints video and think about it It's funny because you know The the trick with with oil paints is is that They are Okay, so one of the most let me put it this way one of the most common challenges people have in painting miniatures is this Tom do you find blending annoying? No, I just use an air rush Sure, how about on small spaces where you can't do that? Uh, I just ignore it. Right. Well, that's just that's not that's not an that's that's not an uncommon answer I don't mean like that's not it. It's not necessarily a A bad statement a lot of people do either they find blending really hard or achieving contrast really hard Or stuff like that. That's a joke with oil paints. That's seconds of work Okay, because right because the nature of what the thing is right. It's it auto blends I mean, actually the the the the real challenge with it is just learning to control it because it's Uh, because it is a harder to work with Medium and how it acts, you know, you have to use like white spirits which are toxic and you know, there's just a lot It's not as it's not as bought by numbers. I don't mean that in any kind of it's not it's not user friendly Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's it's definitely not as user friendly. There there is a much more shallow learning curve I have to think long and hard when I decide to do an oil wash Which I do like on occasion I got you on that because you saw the power and how amazing and easy it was And and I'm super lazy and so if I look at something And it's and it's cheap too. So if I look at something and I'm like I want to wash this whole thing in a black wash Just to pull out detail, but it's I don't want to spend like 20 dollars on normal oil Then I'm like, yeah, I can do an oil wash. I'll take the 20 minutes It is to like to prep the To prep everything and get all my stuff out and mix it up Just to use it and then have a bunch left over and never not touch it You know, whatever. Yep Yep Oh, somebody asked are vince and tom going to do a soul bound actual play or you know, ap actual play Whatever it is. Yes. We're well, we're gonna play the game and stream it on meff's channel on friday night I think 10 a.m. Eastern ish It's not gonna be like a we're not instructing anybody We're just playing we're just playing and if somebody is bored enough to just watch us They're welcome to come watch us. I think it'll be a fun time Oh, I don't doubt that It's gonna be amazing. So Uh, but yeah, anyway, that's what I've been working on. I'm excited about her I like how she's coming out and it's a lot of fun to go To mix all those different mediums because it was just it was all over the place It was oils and acrylics and it was brush blending and air brush blending and just everything back and forth So, uh, she'll be done here in the next day or so. So good stuff. Uh, all right with that tom Yes So about that ghp, buddy rigged ding ding Let's predict a thing. So I don't know. I don't know if our audience has figured this out yet But anytime vince like we're at it. We're stuck on something vince is like prediction show prediction show. Yeah, sure Whenever we get like light on other topics to cover that's yes Or if we don't have a guest who I know wants to discuss something because I try to I try to make sure when we have I try to book guests to discuss armies they play and to focus on that kind of stuff So when it's just us there it is Ring a ding ding. Let's predict the thing ghp 2020.  Okay Get on the tin foil hats. Let's do this So I want to start by laying I want to start by actually tom before we get into our predictions Can we talk about the ghp 2019? So I happen to have both books right here So obviously if we remember ghp, I'm not mine are over there and I'm not going to show you guys my butt So I'm just gonna wait good choice tom Uh, okay, so if we remember the ghp 2019 was the first year where we got this right the two the two book format Yeah, yeah, okay this book being the the thin book Being all the pitch battle profiles all the points adjustments many of which are wrong at this point Because they got adjusted in the winter f aq since points change twice a year now, which I'm not complaining about I am super fine with that Okay, like yes, please keep changing the points twice a year. So a plus good work, uh, but also surprisingly which included like all the monstrous arcanum Right, which included all of the uh, the Legend stuff that we weren't expecting Like just just randomly in here You know all the the tomb king stuff and the legion of asgore and tomerkin's horde all showed up in here and they and Yeah, and obviously because the the previous f aq answer had been How does how does something become legal to play? In a matter of game and ghp. Yeah, and so here they all are so like theoretically the answer of can I play my Tomb kings at a tournament is Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They're in the upright. They have approved points right here. They are it is page And I all of your wonderful wonderful tomb kings are right here Now i'm not sure that this army is going to be the most competitive at this point But hey, you can play him if you want to which is what I like I like the idea of old things having points and being playable, but not necessarily competitive. I'm fine with that I don't know setra at 460 points For his six wounds or eight wounds or whatever it's eight wounds He is actually tough beyond what he would seem by the way. I would I understand I do I like and he can have items now, which actually goes a long way Yes, correct. Because he's just the tomb king on exalted chariot. Uh, yeah, so I mean like you actually can make him pretty tough Uh, but anyway between his command trade and his uh And his artifact Yeah, okay So I assume that we all think but let's just keep that in our mind because I assume that basically our argument's going to be This is going to stay roughly the same Like this is the first year of this I think what we'll say is for the most part this will be like this and we are going to talk about points changes We'd like to see Okay Oh, we are Well, yes, we'll talk about some sure And but this I realized something as I was getting ready to do the show tom What's that? I haven't pulled this book off the shelf In I know exactly when I know the last time I pulled this book off the shelf It hit me it was when they before they released the gaming book Like the week before they released the game book Because once the gaming book came out the little pocket book, right that had all the scenarios in it All I was pulling this off for at that point was the scenarios Yeah, right because I didn't need any of the allegiance abilities because by the end of by the end of last year all of the Allegiance abilities I cared about that were in here had been reprinted in books Right like my iron jaws had come back out All that stuff was was all of it. Yep Yeah, it was like last fall and suddenly like everything things like lost value like a rock Yeah, right that's like slaves to darkness was out and iron jaws was out and those were my two things and suddenly I had Allegiance abilities for those in separate books Um, I don't play meeting engagements and had no and have had no desire to ever. I'll be completely honest um I have and uh I I played it twice once twice Three times a lady. Okay. Yeah, um Once this but it was all in like the same time and then after that time We just didn't play that anymore. Sure because there's just really not a point like I'll be completely honest. I generally find the uh The 1500 point range to be much more comfortable. So yeah, well and they were tinkering with war crime mechanics Right. I don't I don't like the way of mechanics. I just want to play a game at a lower point value. Right. Right. Right. Um The I I don't Uh And then like the mercenaries and stuff that are in here. I have never really felt the need to use a mercenary company I know you have a couple lists. You've used them for Yeah, I mean I have uh I have 22 models that have been modified and built out For mercenaries for my k.o. dwarves sure because I assume you're using uh basically the um the the marauder mercenary company At some point I like not for that but in some of your lists you have used the marauder mercenary company No, I I'm actually not that hot on it. I know a lot of people are I'm okay um Uh, I think uh like I just I I struggle with that like I don't think the extra d6 movement is worth what you're giving up, you know for that like maybe The ghouls mercenary company Yes, got it. Okay. Yeah, like the the the arch region mercenary company is the answer Yes, that's the one. Uh, that lets me bring in the corpse barricade Um, that's really good Yeah, I mean and I just I the only other thing that I I've never the only other thing in in here that I actually like But I really haven't had a chance to To use is the streets of death like the city fighting stuff. Yeah. Yep. Yeah The necromancer company is actually really good in night haunt It lets you get a necromancer in tonight haunt, which gives you the double pylon. Sure. That's solid All right But you're right in general, there's just not a lot of value that's there. We got new terrain Right. Like that was one thing we got in that ghb Um, but again, that's in the gaming book Say what but it's in the gaming book. I got re-printed Yep, it did get printed in there. Yep. And the new command ability's got re-printed in the gaming book as well Is there a date on the gaming book? Probably I definitely I don't have 20 19 gaming book. Oh, does it say that? No, I think it just says right Okay, interesting I mean It feels like the kind of thing that they could also really see really because if they're going to introduce Well, let's get into it and we'll talk about what is the future of the game right? We'll get into that because yes, you're right All right So high level view like the point is is that a lot of this Is suspect let's talk about what's not in here for sure Like in the 2020 version of this first of all all the allegiance abilities. Those are gone All all of them like the only one that's left that has not been updated is dispossessed That's it. That's in cities. No, because I'm no but no, but I'm talking about actual like what is that? Then you would have to count dark link ovens dispossessed and wanderers. Okay, but I'm not I'm counting all of those as having gotten rolled into cities Right and I I don't disagree with that But those are gone. I would agree with that um Everybody else has there like Obviously and then free people to be the other sort of part of that rotation. It's all part of cities Seraphon about their own books slaves got their own book iron jaws got their own book. Okay, so that right there was 21 pages in the book Sure, okay Or to put that to put that another way because that doesn't necessarily mean anything They're just reducing their overhead. Well, that is 21 pages is exactly 20 of the book Okay, this is a 105 page book 21 times 5 is 105. There you go. Very simple math Okay So that's gone uh The this book has about 14 pages of open play stuff and 24 pages of narrative play stuff Yeah So and then the rest is is the the match play stuff. So a big section like 30 pages was Meeting engagements and all the reprinted battle plans. That's kind of our breakdown that we're at right, right? Right, okay, right So let's let's talk it. We're gonna blow by blow this but at a high level What are some of the things you would like to see? Well, everybody is jumping the gun in the comments So i'm just going to go ahead and say what my idea was. Yeah, that's fine Let's talk about the the high level things you'd like to see in here. Just let's spit ball some ideas Since we're gaining a bunch of pages Sure at minimum gaining 21 pages Even if they just reprinted all the open all the narrative kept all that stuff We didn't update any of the battle plans. Like imagine it was exactly the same. There's 21 blank pages. Yep So i'm gonna take an idea from war cry Okay And in the tome of champions, which is their yearly update, right? Like the because like the tome of champions 2019 is what we got in december for war cry And what it involved was all the things that were released in 2019 Okay, yeah Um, and so like when you pick up that you gain like all of the card sets that were released in that year are included in that book And what I would say Is I think there is warrant To include everything that's been released In white dwarf that is rules crunch In an annual style format in the next ghb. Yep, sure Yep, and so they can grab all of like the fire slayers and the night haunt and the obr and the um all and uh I guess storm cast eternals happen before that but you get the idea Like the hallowed night stuff like all of that stuff collect them together and slap in the ghb and throw points on that stuff Okay That's low hanging fruit In one sense, they're like re they're re using content that they already have They have an opportunity to rebalance it because basically it's been beta tested in the in the white dwarf They can get feedback potentially from yeah, because the other one you're not remembering is slanesh the universally hated one Right, right and slanesh. I'm I'm choosing to ignore the silaski host No, but the key is is that what they can do is they can take the the initial Um contact with that thing from white dwarf And make adjustments to it in the reprint for the ghb Yeah, I agree And I'd love to see a silaski host back in there because the idea of silasks host Was a really cool idea. It was just it's just dumbly broken now with a poster right, right? So like But the concept of silaske having her own host isn't like innately wrong. She's a she's like she he they're one of the coolest couples in warhammer um right, and They're a great chance to like okay. You did it the first time Not not quite there, but great idea Execution leave something to be desired now put it back in there And actually give it like command traits and artifacts because you don't have those in the current silask host Right and get rid of the dumb double depravity right Right and and it they can keep these year to year or not And so i'm thinking about like iron jaws allegiance right iron jaws stayed multiple years their allegiance abilities were in the ghb. Sure Um, and so if they wanted to just roll those into the next year for some stuff They could keep that content in there or not Right until the next printing of a book when that can get rolled into the main book And so it can become this like this malleable format For content I would also say the other challenge is if you don't Do this then it's easy for people to get lost because they'll go to a game or somebody'll be like I'm playing this thing and they'll be like what the hell are you talking about? I've never heard of this Oh, it's from a white dwarf 15 months ago Like that's the world we're gonna live in Well, or or Yes, or the other thing is this no Because the faq said that if it's not in the most recent ghb If that's been printed after the white dwarf or whatever the publication is and it hasn't been including the ghb It's not legal. Yeah, I understand So imagine they put just anything in the white dwarves. Well, what happens to everything in the white dwarves then basically has an expiration date on Unless it's just included in the ghb. That's not necessarily true Because they do sometimes put the points in the ghb for this stuff I agree and if they do that's your worst-case scenario. That's where you get there somebody walking up to a table This is what i'm describing, right? Okay, and saying where did that come from? Well, it's from rules from a white dwarf 15 months ago. See, here's the points value But that doesn't tell me anything. I read it in the list and I go What the heck is that? And where do I find it? But do any of those exist that have been hangers on from like prior publication? I know like skybound slayers of Stormcast Eternals came that like that that has maintained points in the ghb Even though it was printed in like the order book Like the like the the forces of order from first edition sure AOS like I know that has persisted every year because why not? um But I don't know of anything else that has been like perennial There's there's no reason to think they couldn't do that if they wanted and if they're going to keep them around Then the answer is please put them into the ghb. So the rules are there I agree with what aos coach said in the in the chat just now Which is as a to trying to get all the white dwarf battalions to confirm legal lists sucks Yes, because he's got to go figure out where that heck that thing is from Find the battalion and then check to see if it's legal, right? And he's like a scavenger hunt For for checking legality of lists. That's that's garbo to make people do that, right? Yep, I agree completely. Um, you know, I would love if the the battalions that were included in The dual boxes were also included I would love that. Um, I know that maybe not everybody feels that but like I would love to know that my eighth or war battalion The the profiteer one Um, or the prospector one has like longevity Beyond this ghb. He's right now basically everything that releases with points basically Only has longevity until the next ghb And so it would be a wonderful that stuff like from the prior year was rolled into the next ghb to at least give it One more year of lifespan. Yeah, sure And I mean realistically you can always you can drop it if you need to at some point But this is a pretty skinny book and it's not like we're talking about a lot of these pages as you look through here Have room Like yeah where you could expand on the bottom of the page, right? So it's not like they're they're really Uh, it's not like there's scratching for for stuff here Right and like you could do like as you know people pointed out like you could do stuff like, uh Like the legion of grief and the stuff that showed up in forbidden power Sure Like if you wanted to redo the city of lethess like you could just roll all that in for the next year Into this other product and basically that they're just revising content that they already have Yep, and so it just becomes its own vehicle, you know, uh like of perpetuating that content. So I don't know I just Um, like this seems like low hanging fruit to me and it makes sense It's not new. They're not having to design anything For the ghp at this point. They're just collecting what's already been done. Okay All right, so I'm gonna I'm gonna here's here's here's mine. You ready? Yep hit me Okay, uh Jenison meeting engagements, okay, but even if you don't Uh as long as we're just gonna keep beta testing stuff in the in the ghp like we did with meeting engagements, okay Sure, then give me my apoc Yeah, uh, uh in your mass combat format. Yep Yep, give me the way to play 10 000 points on a side Right in a relative in the relatively same amount of time And use that to beta test it to release the eventual product Yeah, uh And I don't disagree with that. Sure Again, if we're you know, stick it in the narrative section That's where it belongs right because it's not it's not a match to play thing No, um part of the problem with meeting engagements. I I think Is that they tried to put it under this? Under the mat like it's meeting engagements in this book is sitting under like the match play section and nice try but No, it's just not like I've never thought to myself not once I want to get a good competitive game on Let me go get out the meeting engagements rules Okay, that's just not in my head. No, like I've I've thought let's play a thousand point game competitively And by the way, it's just called play it at a thousand points. There's rules for that already and they work basically fine Okay Yes, some things are better and some things are worse as one would expect when you screw around with the point So dole of your army. That's what happens uh, and so Like my my argument here is Uh, I it should have this kind of thing Should be a narrative thing. That's what yeah, that's what you're doing when you do this, right? So like if if meeting engagements are there, I have no problem with it as a concept It just feels like it would have actually had more legs if they had just made it sat in the narrative play section Still uses points. You can use points in the narrative section. Nothing's wrong with that as they mentioned many times In on many of their streams like lots of people combine these things together. So it's a it's a narrative thing That that gives more of a framing as to why things don't show up all at once and uh, you know using different special rules and stuff like that and you know That would be a great way to include a new apoc thing because again, I'm not going to think I want to play a competitive game Let me get 10 000 points out Right Yep, uh, yeah And so You know, I I think this could be if you keep meeting engagements, which again I don't have any love for it, but I know lots of people do there's some people sounding off in the comments for it I'm all about that. I love people repping what they like great, so reprint it Put it in the narrative section And beef it up and correct some of the the obvious flaws it had on its initial release Yeah, right. No, I don't agree with that and just sort of rebalance it and and add to it enrich it Right. Yep Yeah, I love all like I love lots of like exploratory new content Like it feels like that's what the ghb should be doing. Um Yeah, no, I I agree. Um like I like In my mind this book has two points Yeah One is to beta test and explore new content largely in a non-competitive way Yep, okay Give us fun other ways to use our models. That's high value Giving me additional modalities For the use of my figs In a book that I was probably gonna buy for its match play features That is value add Right. Yeah. So yeah letting me play on different narrative scenarios in different wildly different crazy points things right all of that That I think is highly valuable, right? So good. That's one side of this coin the other side of the coin of the ghb is to Be the update correlation Collection rebalance point in the year That's where it leads to what you're talking about Right where include the the battalions include those things Just in the same way we update all the points And it sort of it's this moment for us to all stop Take a breath and reset right into a sort of new match play environment Right, that would be the way to go there. Yep. Totally agree with that. Yep. So, okay Let's let's get into some deets now. All right. Okay. Okay. The open play stuff is only 14 pages And it's basically the open more army generator terrain the close quarters battle thing and the hidden agendas Yeah, okay I don't mind any of the open play stuff. I can't imagine. I would ever use it There's got to be somebody out there who likes it the only one the only part of the open play stuff I mean, I've read through all this the only part of it that I thought was just like I don't care was um Was the The like close quarters battle generator. Sure. Sure. Yeah, like don't care. I like all the hidden agendas. That's all fine Um, I like like the the open war cards and stuff are all cool the sort of version of those and it's a relatively small part of the book Yep it in there Great, okay Good stuff I mean, I don't know that I would beef it out in any way Is there any like is there anything we'd want to see there? I don't know. Just like random like I could see a world of like random setup stuff. Okay Um, like I think about the randomized cards for war cry Um in like the open play format, right? I could see them doing something more with like randomized scenario generation Um, I don't know exactly what that is, but I could imagine a world where Um, they create it's a bunch of charts that you roll on and that generate different, you know formats. Mm-hmm. Okay All right, so let's talk about narrative because I feel like this is the richest sort of place for expansion So obviously this one they had streets of death Probably doesn't need to be reprinted. I mean some of these things they can go as has been pointed out They've they've spent the ghp's like cycling through these concepts 16 17 18 19, right? So like we had a siege and we had streets and we had Uh sky battles and and so on and so forth that evolved sky battles wasn't in ghp, but it you know, it came out, right? Yeah so the I think that you can it's good enough to leave this in here We had the arcane objectives, which were fine The regiments are renowned and then you have a big whole thing about elixi elixia the shattered city, right? And so that is the that's this whole thing, right? So you got elixia and then you've got a bunch of battle plans for elixia Right, and then you have the whole raid nambush and then naming and the mercenary companies Which it's very funny to me that the mercenary company showed up under narrative But the meeting engagements was under match play But anyway proving I guess that there is a gray line between this stuff indeed uh I would I think honestly a lot of that wouldn't come forward almost all of that gets um Almost all of that gets jettisoned Okay, sure sure. I do like the idea of them picking a city and having a series of uh Having a series of battle plans and narrative and story around it Sure, sure. Hey, can I do a pitch for you? I'm ready Okay, so let's take that idea and build it out but actually look at like the way that firestorm worked Okay, so what if they took an area of the mortal realms with appropriate cities?  Sure campaign So you got a couple years of ghp leading up to like firestorm 2 electric boogaloo, right? Right, but with like hyper refined Like intentionally developed tested over multiple years to really to really like Hone the edge on the system. Well, you got to exactly where I was going to go You're attacking it slightly differently, but this is that's your you're kind of exactly where I was going to say Let's use the ghp narrative section to explore some to deep dive explore some cool stuff About an area is the mortal realms. We haven't been to okay So like they had the battle for elixir there So let's have a similar narrative structure, but in a less explored realm So right now we've got the elves launching. They knew the elves were launching Right around and they so they knew he he he was going to be a big area cool Let's do a series of narratives in heish. It doesn't need to be like a battle for one city It can be like the battle of the whatever Spires right some area of like active realm magic And we use each narrative battle to track across different parts of heish Explore the terrain have cool magical rules that show how the how that area and and heish in general in the order In the logic of the realm influences Uh the the battlefield and I think that would be a really neat scenario. It'd be well aligned with the elves right and I think that Like in other words just take a section each year and by the way, it could my idea could lead up to your idea Right Because in here we could have a fight that's in the cities or a fight that's on planes or whatever You got I'm saying or that involves a city or something or or a collection of of civilizations or whatever And uh, but this would give us another window into actually exploring through play An area of the mortal realms that is I agree I agree completely and like that's and that's what I was partially saying is is that like Each ghb then serves its own kind of like in world exploration function But the series of those what they're going to do is we're going to hone the system of that's being developed itself Right So You know when I think about the other things in narrative, right? Yeah, which by the way, I think the only thing in there that should stay Is the name generator Really so like what would you do with the mercenaries? Would you just jettison mercenaries? Uh, no, I'd move them into match play where they belong Okay, that's fair like I like I actually really really like they are a match. That's fine. I'm not against him I'm just saying they're a matched play convention Like they absolutely are They they rely on pulling your command points and they have very like they feel very matched play Very mechanical. Yes. Yes. Not narrative. Yes. I agree like I get it. They have names. They're cool They're named mercenary companies. Okay. That's fine.  I think name generators are super fun That's uh, you know, you know what else would be awesome. Okay, uh additional artifacts Like realm artifacts round two. Is that what we're saying? Maybe No, this time it's personal in narrative So like artifacts from the region um, the red scar plateau of akshia Uh narrative only artifacts Yes Not valid in matched play Right highly specific to that the Ranger tied into the region. I just like or whatever we're deep diving in. Yes. Love it. Love the idea Let's play in that space like if we're gonna play in this place, let's play in that space Yep, so we don't worry like these have these artifacts have nothing to do with matched play They're not selectable.  And is it competitive and blah blah blah blah blah Who cares print some fun narrative artifacts? Uh that are just awesome and cool and really unique and again tell the story of that place. I love that idea Right. Yep I think that's a great idea tom Uh if we're gonna pick a new uh zone To fight in I don't know what you call it terrain biome something Biome. Yeah. Okay. Why not? Sure. So we've done sky. We've done cities. You know, we've done cgs We've done all this stuff. Okay So here's the question tom. Do we go to the last frontier? Of course we do Do we go to sea battles? Uh, yeah, we do. Okay. Now. Are you talking? Above or below the water above or below right like that that's the question that I want Um, are we talking about like boarding party? Yes type battles. Yes, or are we talking about under the sea? Yes I'm talking about I am talking about seventh sea Seventh sea I'm talking about black flag. I'm talking about Uh, whatever pick your pick your thing all that By the way, we'll just make Aaron's Aaron Bostate will make his whole year by because he always does the sea battle for the narrative it at nova Uh, so give us some some fun stuff for that also by the by underwater Yeah, like I want to see rules for underwater battles now How does this work? How do we get things happening underwater? Well, lots of forces We think there's a new sea army coming. That's been our prediction for a long time Okay, and so, uh, let's uh, let's go to I thought I thought I was gonna say sea or space the final frontier because I said No, because there is no space in the mortal realms the space is just easier Yes, like Spaceship sigmar. No, but our space station sigmar. No, but at the same time like Uh, I'm gonna say no to underwater All right. I really want underwater battles. I think I don't care about water. You can get out of here Um, I want I not only do I want like ship battles. Sure, which I think we all want Yeah, like I think that they need to build like it needs to involve a system of like building your War vessel with like a mechanical stuff and then you have to like You actually like in like you can garrison some ships and see like you basically take ko Right. Yep.  Sure. Um, and so you make like a generic like a war vessel, right? um, and then You like a war vessel template that can be then skinned to any of the armies that you can build out the models like it would just be the best The best. Yeah, I I think that is Uh, I'm just saying I would love underwater stuff too, but if you made me pick If if you said vince you can only have one of these two things Uh, yes, and I want basically the the realms that war cog for an idea, but in boats as a boat Yeah, so if you said vince you got to choose you can have either underwater fights or See ship battles. I'm picking ship battles every time right Because yeah, the like just like they do with the nova narrative where it where he has the big boats that he built out And he lets everybody uses which are amazing erin did a fantastic job with that. It's always a super cool game I let I want to see people going overboard. I want to see fracking attacks I want to see stormy seas I want to see I want to see, you know getting broadsided and unleashing cannonballs into the enemy hull Like there's there's roaming caribb this is Sure, absolutely. Look because yeah the roaming monster kind of like war cry has the roaming monsters Yeah, you just get that with caribs caribb this is yep Now look, I know a lot of people Don't love that third pirate to the caribbean movie. Okay, and that's why I Sure go on but But I absolutely love the scene where like the two now heroic ships or whatever the You know the black pearl and davie jones' ship whatever Uh Now under the control the other character come up and like just sail by and broadside The east india t company ship and just like as he's walking down the stairs and the cannonballs are going through And it's all in slow motion and stuff That's that's like the most amazing thing watching those ships just unleash like 30 40 50 cannons Into another ship and to another galleon is the coolest thing in the world. Okay, so that Can I pitch this differently? Okay, so that people can like warm to it because I think they're thinking too much of like ko type of rules, okay Imagine If you had a piece of terrain That you could control the movement on that your ship that your troops could be on Yes, absolutely. Well, that brings us to another thing that people have mentioned in the comments That was absolutely on my mind as well and we're going to talk about terrain rules in a second But just in the narrative section, uh terrain that that moves walking. So not a walking monster We know for a fact that a lot of the realm itself in the mortal realms is active And we're actually like do things will be an active participant like the realms themselves are alive with magic, right? And so that I said so dread fleet and my answer is yeah, kind of But without where I also get to use all my other troops to and go board enemy troops Right, I just want the thing erin runs at nova as the in the narrative to have rules in here And like since it's a narrative thing you could just say build boats or make boats somehow like you make it happen Again, this isn't happening at tournaments the whole idea here. It's a narrative thing and I like who doesn't want an excuse to build a big ship um, right, right, right walking moving terrain seems like a great Thing to add into the narrative and again, you could have them by realm different types of walking terrain what they do Some could be aggressive. Some could be helpful. Some could be indifferent. Some could be brought under control and stuff like that Um, I think that would be amazing Yep Yep, all of that. Yeah 100% There you go Uh, why somebody said why wouldn't storm cast just drop in from the sky and explode boats? They would they would just drop in on lightning bolts and try to jump on your boat assuming they can within nine inches or something Uh, right, which is very tough on a boat, but I'm okay with that if they do that heck Yeah, that's how you board that's how storm cast board a boat I can't you like you can see them people fighting toward the back of the boat And they look up toward the the prowl and then like a lightning bolt strikes and then like There's the one storm cast and behind them are all the others like oh, we've got a boarding party And you know does because the boats are all Preacher naturally tough because it's the mortal realms and things are meant to survive Because uh, I think somebody's talking about Steven foots, uh, like real life dread fleet. Yeah Yeah, you got like real size dread fleet stuff. Yes. Yeah. Yeah in this driveway. Yeah that Yep, let's do it. Like these are narrative rules, right? Let's play in the space. Absolutely. Like it's part of the legacy of what warhammer is. Let's like let's go crazy Yep So I think that that's a good one the One that I don't that I would love to see in the future But I don't think needs to happen here, but since since we'll mention it Davis had just said god beast battle where do you just rebrand the monster fight board game? I actually want to change that slightly What I'd love to see in like ghp 2021 It's not my top idea But I want to see battles on the god beast Like that's the that's the actual fighting location. You understand what I mean The the rel the battlefield your your six by four Is on the back of a god beast correct? And the god beast you're on has different effects On the the battle, right? They're big enough that they they basically don't notice you Walking around on their back and having a fight because you're a little more than fleas Right to these creatures, right? Uh, it takes somebody like Nagash or Archeon or sigmar to go tame or or grim near, you know Whatever like one of the gods to go tame a god beast, but just like You can be they they give like six different god beasts who are still out and around and moving around And you're on their back fighting. Okay, and they're that big like just this scale Of what would that would become right because it would impress that like you're not just on the six by four table Isn't the god beast the six by four table is some small section It's like a shoulder plate of right, right exactly. Yes Like that sounds incredible and then you could have all the special rules to make it uh To make it like and you could like roll on a table based on whatever the god beast is doing And so like one roll could be like lurking ground And so then like the ground tips and everybody slides eight inches one direction. Sure sure or yeah, whatever exactly exactly non non-flyers Slide eight inches in a randomly generated dice direction. Sure It just stuff like that sounds so much fun, right? Like that that feels like our narrative battles. I'm in let's do it That's what these things should be right. We should be able to tell what I want to see them Lean into is the great stories of the mortal realms Like this is not medieval europe Right. Okay, right. These are nine realms of county chaos of Insane magical potency. It's planescape on you know on meth, right? Like it should be It should be up at that level Where we're really pulling all those crazy those crazy things Yeah, like this is what like this is what your narrative game should be about, right? So, oh scott had said is there a god beast large enough to have a moving city on it? Yes 100% I mean the god beasts are like They're they're depicted a lot of stories as just being beyond massive like things that are that are like the original The original god beast of the gargants Vomited in the mythological story vomited the entire giant race Into the right right like he threw them up Yes, okay in a very sort of greek Mythological story. Well, like that's the story. He's portrayed Right, right. They're really big They're so so can they fit a city on there? Yes, if you can vomit a race of giants out Then you're big enough to have a fight on your back and nobody notices again It's it's literally like the people should be fleas to a human Right, like almost unnoticeable Yeah, yeah, um So, yeah, there you go And yes, I see I see ninj on in the comments and yes, I did specifically say newsy news and that was just for you buddy Uh, I was I was hoping you'd catch that Uh, so at any rate um Yeah, I think that would all be the amazing stuff to pack the the narrative section with that all sounds fun That all sounds worth exploring that all sounds good. We're gonna fix match play now match play. Yes Okay question one Do we get 2020 versions of the battle plans or are they good enough? Do we actually try to just ride the 2019 and 2018 versions? Do we actually need to change it? We have We have 18 match play battle but like battle plans that have been printed. Is that correct? uh Basically, there are two more that are in um Like in the line sorcery or yeah, whatever that doesn't matter.  I don't know what to tell you that's a real shame because a smaller tournament could who can get 30 Every everybody break your own purple sun Problem solved. We all have them Done done it does it at any rate. I get it. Yes. Let's let's say 18 or 20 pick your number. But yes, that's how many there are Yeah, so I I think we're good What you do is instead of making them different you do something else. Oh, I know you do. I got it You rotate secondary objectives every year That's what you do Okay, um, and so what you do is you come up with an entirely new list of secondary objectives Or how the secondary objectives function every year and we ride this for a couple years And so the the diversity of objectives like the scenarios and you can tweak base rules on the objectives themselves, right? Um, especially if we're tweaking a like game book separate Okay, um, you can adjust those but what you do in the ghb is you lean into the secondary objective market And basically rewrite them and use that to help mix up the actual um match play experience every year Okay Here's my argument unless a new gaming book is going to come out right on the back of this Yeah, which which we can talk about Here's my honest answer Yep, I would rather that first of all, I wish they would just jettison total commitment and shoot it in the head Okay, it's the one I hate so like it either like keep a thing called total commitment if you want but it doesn't work like that anymore Yeah, for me, it's shoot the uh, um the bouncing one in the head Oh, come on now relocation orb is fine It doesn't specifically hurt anyone's army And just find annoying just like let's roll random dice to see yes. It's very wonky But people I I am one of those people who love it. I know I'm not alone The problem with total commitment is it's it's it's a different sort of bad It's a great. It's a great narrative play scenario. I I think relocation orb is a perfectly fine match play scenario. I think you are a negative Nancy, but I think that the I think total commitment is bad because it specifically hurts Armies that don't and can't afford to be hurt and shouldn't be hurt in a way. That's just completely game breaking to them That's just eliminating most of their their allegiance rules for no reason. I think relocation orb Hurts armies that don't have high mobility options And it doesn't get that shut up It walks around in a pretty reasonably tight path in its new version And by the by it doesn't literally say hey the thing you see printed on your allegiance abilities No, that doesn't do anything Relocation orb is bad for slow armies. Period. Okay, sure all the scenarios Have tilts that they're somewhat good or somewhat bad Total commitment is it's a is a complete Uh step apart. All right, and First of all, I don't think either of the two of them should honestly be in in most like Competitive tournaments so we can just get that out there. I I don't I don't think that that relocation orb's good as a generally as a competitive tournament game Uh, that being said, I do like it as a matched play scenario I think if you've got 18 of these and the average match play tournaments five If we've got like 15 that feel pretty matched play ready. We're in a pretty good place I agree. Yep. Okay all right, so Here's my argument unless we're going to replace the gaming book like right away. Here's what I don't want to have happen is They come out with because some of the 2018 versions of these things I still find highly valuable Right, right, especially when Uh, especially when not all tournaments have the space to run Sometimes you need to switch because you need to do the more horizontal or diagonal deployment ones as opposed to the the vertical deployment ones, right the lengthwise table deployment. Yeah Yep, you know what I'm saying? I do Uh, and when tournaments can't do that sometimes you can fall back between like the 2018 and the 2019 versions You can usually find it so you don't have to be trying to like Right, it just gets really annoying at a tournament when when the tables are touched against each other and you're trying to like Hold on. Let me let me move. Let me move my guys here. You know, like it's just it doesn't work um So I like actually them having those sort of different versions of those things, right? Yeah. Yeah and uh If they come out with like 2020 versions of it Okay, okay. So now do we just have what what new spins can we reasonably do? on these scenarios No, what you do is you don't change the core mechanics. You change like claim Like the objective claiming rules And so rather than like, uh Um, so here's not here. So here's here's a possibility. Here's some some design space we haven't explored in Uh, it's the uh, whoever has more units within six inches of the objective You're saying play with different things like that Yeah, yeah, you actually you change claim You change claim like we already do with the hero base scenarios, right? Because it says jettison normal rules and now here's Yep, you can rotate you take the core of what's there and you rotate through some of them And that's a very easy way to like you could have like six different sets of claim rules Right, we already do heroes in battle line Or uh, you know, uh item bearers or people who are wizards Um, like we have special kind of rules around that you could do number of units, which I think would be really interesting Um, because that that like msu actually becomes valuable Okay, not doing like horde armies of blocks of 40 50 60 plus models. It would be very much an entire horde scenario Yes, right, which generally win right now Like that's generally like the default Is like large block units and then this would skew the other way and just mix some of that in Um, and I think that you could you could you could generate a couple years of variable scenarios Just on mixing up some of that in the midst of the normal scenarios that exist right now, okay Here's what i'm going to say if we're going to generate six new scenarios Okay, and they have to have a reason to exist. I think you're I think you're 50 percent toward Uh, you're 50 percent toward a A good idea. Okay, so what's the other half? Okay, here's the other half We need to have multiple victory point conditions on within the mission So not just not just the like objective you're trying to hold Correct. Yep. That's right So, uh, I'll see if I can break this out, but this will be very familiar to you if you've ever played the Well, not just for sure, but yes, of course, but I was gonna say if you've ever played the ghb 20 God what year was that now? I used the cards all the time 2018 2017. I think it was 2017 20 I think it was the 20. I think you're gonna say the 2018 The legions of death not the air the whatever the multiplayer format, right? Correct They had coalition of death and triumphant strategy both of which had multiple scenarios that function like this Um, I don't remember if it was 2017 or 2018 Bonus points for killing general bonus points for holding the objective Well, so there's all sorts of different ways to do it. Yes. Yeah, so effectively every every scenario in there Still had an objective capture thing Right, right, right where it was like just like we see now capture an objective blah, blah, blah bodies blah, blah, blah One point of turn Two points turn Planting what are their victory or the the current turn number? I don't care. Whatever, right? All that stuff is just whatever. Thank you Cinderfall Cinderfall said 2017. Thank you So but then they also have lots of other takes So, uh, one victory point per five wounds you deal Okay Uh, one victory point if you kill the enemy general or in coalition of death It was like a bonus one to be killing enemy warlord. Okay, cool. Yep One victory point if you kill any model with 10 or more wounds Yep, okay One victory point for every unit alive in the enemy deployment zone your unit alive in the enemy deployment zone at the end of the game Okay or or uh One point for every unit of yours alive in your deployment zone at the end of the game. Yep. Okay. Yep and You need to be careful with these because it can get like You don't want to get too crazy and you don't want too many of them Because then it can get right to track But just like three of them Sure, but two or three actually makes the game much more interesting because it gives you multiple routes to victory Now you need to think about the secondary consequences. For example, like let's say you You go for the like one victory point per five or ten wounds you dealt in a battle round or sorry Right, not about right in a turn, right? So at the end of your turn You would count up your ejected points and you would count up how many wounds you successfully dealt, right? Yep Okay Um, one that is a lot of bookkeeping.  Yes Now I do it with my group because we that's almost that is the scenarios by the way that we use almost constantly Sure 90 of the scenarios we use are just those scenarios or changes to the or like Modifications of those scenarios because we're always playing three and four player games. Right.  They don't lose too much themselves or they'll feed the enemy victory points Right, you have to be very careful with like your chaff units because then you're just feeding you're feeding chaff units become Have a negative to them Because they just feed the enemy victory points, right? One of the classic ways to win a game with an alpha blocks and the strategy is you move your anvils onto the Objectives and then you just surround them with chaff and say good luck.  Yep Okay, and the reality is the other person in a scenario like this where you have that as a secondary objective That's a not that's a that's not a winner Right Like They're gaining tons more by just chewing your chaff up Yep, right. Yeah. Yeah um So I love the idea of having those kinds of things again Just be aware of what you're doing. So don't put The killing a bunch of stuff equals more victory points in all six new scenarios. That's bad Right because then the good army becomes the one that kills the most Don't put the one that's just about mobility or surviving or whatever like mix them up, right? Yeah, you mix them up put secondary or tertiary scoring You know conditions In each scenario bake them in and mix them up And so you have to have a nice mix of flexibility in order to reliably do well at all scenarios, right? Sure There could be one where it's like you get a victory point for every hero you kill So like okay, that's influencing to certain forces people like ko or people who have a lot of power Like shooting armies. Yeah are going to be stronger, right? You could have one that's all about doing a lot of wounds. You could have one that's I mean we could we could sit here and design 50 of these and I don't care pick the good ones Pick the good six out of the 50 we could generate in the next 10 minutes, right? Right, right and mix them up and to me what that says is that actually is a reason to create some new That actually makes it so we We have to have different types of armies it can each each one can incentivize different type of army This is a sort of a kill army incentive and this is an anvil army objective Incentive and this is a very mobile army objective and this one's more shooty based and So on right and if anybody has a problem, sorry good, and I would just say that actually is a reason to make six new scenarios That's my point because just slightly evolving The these if you're gonna do that just reprint them and say these are the updated versions 2018 no longer exists These are 2019 or 2020. We've reprinted them completely and these are just now the 12 new valid scenarios with refreshed rules Right and then there's the six in the core book that are ever free Yeah, if anybody questions whether something like this can work Like you just have to look as far as adepticon, which is one of the largest events in the world And in some years, it's been the largest event in the world If for its championship it has consistently had, you know, like scenarios that have primary objectives primary scoring system And then almost all of them have a secondary scoring system Right and a tertiary function, which is like a secondary objective on system Um And that's like that was just so basically what it said is play the scenario as this in the book But then add these two other things. Yeah, sure And that's and that's run like that for four years very successfully Sure What what I would do is I would just roll that into the ghp It's the the scenarios in the ghp themselves And then you can rotate through some of that every year to keep it mixed up Yeah, and and so let me tackle a couple of things I see in the comments here Like some people are mentioning the wtc system of 20. Oh, I don't really want 20. Oh, and I don't like 20. Oh systems anymore But I get what you're going for Like I'm not saying and I don't want these to be chosen secondary type of things Like I I don't like things where you actively choose this stuff I don't like when they use the hidden agendas or whatever they are that the gw has and they let you just choose every round If the secondaries are going to be there, they have to be either out of your control in random Like like they die. David does it nashkon or they should just be part of the scenario and tailored to be a holistic part of it now Because that then makes it so you can't just always take the win more button on your army that's tilted towards your force, right? Because if you're really good at surviving, you're always just going to take the survival secondary or whatever. Okay, right, right the What I'm what I'm advocating for here is is not to have them blown out like they are right now where the You know right now, like I said the kill points one will just run way over the objective one. Okay, great. So They should probably be brought more in line And cinderfall said he's worried about complexity, right because he thinks that like you have to keep these relatively simple I don't disagree with that. I think you can let me say it this way I play with a very very beer and pretzels group Okay, I'm not meaning that insultingly. That's just like that's they're they're fun of why we get together and play Uh, isn't to have like some super ultra competitive experience Right, they just want to sit down. We want to drink beers. We're going to talk about some stuff We're going to push some figs around and have some good fights and roll some dice We use these things that have two or three Uh victory conditions Every game and we've never had a problem with it even in the middle of like half paying attention And honestly like talking about castlevania or something Right, or what we just watched on netflix and people drinking beers and hanging out We still are able to able to keep track of these and the key with them is they need to be relatively simple Like one victory point per each hero you kill is not adding A lot of bookkeeping or mental weight onto what you did there, right? No Um, if you want a fun like if you want a non bookkeeping version Of the uh of the wounding one, okay It could be something like a victory point if you did more than 10 or 20 wounds or destroyed a unit or something like that So it's just a it's a light switch, right once you cross the threshold you're in you got the vp You just do something like if you destroy the unit. Yeah, sure the more light switchy you made them Right the easier thing I would want these to be simple The goal isn't to add complexity. The goal is to add dynamism in your paths to victory in the scenario That's a reason to Uh, that's a reason to play this this that's a reason to generate six new scenarios And I think that most people If not all the players of this game are more than capable of keeping like A simple secondary factor in their head Right, okay, right. I really do because I've seen all these tournaments that use secondaries of varying types and even tertiary sometimes and and I've seen there are scenario when we go when we go play at holy abic There are four different Okay, I don't need objectives on the table. I mean there are four Scoring for scoring things you do in every single round. Okay. That's a lot to be tracked out It's so insane. So I'm not like Uh and so I I think that like having played these types of scenarios constantly in fluffy low competition just out for fun games Where we're just where we're not taking a pen of armies often and we're playing three and four players or or whatever We do these even with two we'll often use these Uh, it tells me it's perfectly handleable And would add a lot of interest to the game. So Again, you're going for dynamism not complexity. Right. Absolutely um and I think that that's really the key like you can screw these up. There are bad versions of all of this Right because because as it is right now everything is almost like Almost every scenario is Can you sit on a point? Longer than the enemy right yep like And and or get to unclaimed points faster than it get to unclaimed points faster and hold those Or get to unclaimed points that move Before your enemy But or can you push your enemy off points that they're sitting on like that's that is the entire scoring picture right now For basically all match play And so the idea would be to add and say yes that and this so um Which is which is still different than secondary objectives how they're how they currently exist in the in the game And how they're realized in events right Okay. Um, yeah, so I agreed with that totally. Um All right. Oh somebody asked what tournament uses the four types the holy events. So this is steve herner His events which would be holy havoc and holy wars Uh, and and there you go Yeah, okay, so uh I I very much agree with what you the what you the the flag you just planted tom And I think this is the sort of dynamism that with it We would need and it's funny because tyler and I tyler emerson scrubby and wells friend of the show tyler emerson We've talked a lot about actually on our own Redesigning all of the existing scenarios. Right. We have with a added secondary in there of this type Right, like what if we made what if we made a point one version of each of the scenarios, right? Right, so you have you know take it hold Blah blah blah dot one Right. Yeah The and uh And and what's added is that thing and just like throw it out there and see if people like it Just as a sort of experiment, but never had the time So and I don't imagine myself having the time anytime soon, but we'll see what happens. There you go Uh, all right, uh, shall we shall we close out here tom and talk about some points? Sure. Okay Let's talk about points that need to be changed Uh, the way I would like to break this down is let's go every you war scroll by every war scroll. No We're not gonna do that Okay Let's start with the things you feel are the most egregious Let's just start a hit list here because there's a million of these things. Everybody's gonna have All right What are your current biggest offenders? There's everybody's got their own personal list Most of our lists Points adjustments or that need war scroll adjustments. They need points adjustments purely points adjustments These are things that the problems are going to be solved Based on points some things can't be they're they just need war scrolls rewritten, right? Like cygors are a great example There's not a cheap enough world where he suddenly makes sense because he just doesn't do anything Right.   You could make him 40 points.  Yep. Yeah So what we're talking about is what's the top of the list? of things that need points adjustments That where the problem can be solved with points alone Okay, these aren't the tens or 20s the slight adjustments all that that's all fine. That'll all happen Lots of stuff will move a little bit What's your big offenders? I've got a couple Well, I'm gonna say it before you do. Okay Uh, hearthgar berserkers need to lose their horde discount Preach brother Preach. Yes, that is correct. Amen. Or or or It needs to be changed from an 80 point discount To a 40 point discount to a 40 point discount. Sure. I'll accept either. Yep Yep, and so instead of like going from 480 to 400 go from 480 to 440 um I I think all the magma at the same time Uh, all the magma dross need to drop between 40 and 80 points All of them all the magma dross you said Yep, all them every single one of them. They all hit on fours Yeah, okay. Sure. I'm not sure I I'm not sure I go with that big of an adjustment, but okay They they just they can't do work as they currently are so all the magma dross have to come down I don't know. There's a lot of some synergies that all happen all over that army that I have Yeah, like trust me. They all need to come down. I'm fine with that Here's the thing I'm willing to give you some points adjustments on your on your fire lizards that we don't get to see enough Because they're awesome Okay, uh, as long as the as long as the hearth guards go up to 480. Yeah The worst fighting experience in aos Like they and petrifices elite, uh More tech guard are like in a struggle of who can be the dumbest thing to fight against in a game And at least more tech guard have the decency to and pink horse And pink horse.  Yep All right in lieu of Uh, war scroll changes. Yes, again, that's all the things that are like in lieu of war scroll changes Pink horse need to jump up 20 percent. Yeah, sure 20 20 to 40 percent Uh, I would also push flamers up by the bottom and uh Not again not crazy, but yeah something Uh and the gaunt summoner himself needs to go up because of his ability to just pour it in a 200 point unit Or or if we push the pinks up, let's say the pinks go to 220 240 whatever uh 240. Yeah, sure, but let's let's say they go up. Okay Uh, then he needs to go up the same right because he only becomes a better deal, right? He should right. He should go up whatever they go up plus Yeah, he's giving him a way too much of a discount right now I don't I don't disagree with that. Um at the same time Uh bring zhangor down Um Like probably you mean oh zhangor. Yeah. Yeah probably like 40 points 30 points. They're good But they're not that good. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. They're they're just um, they're not in that world anymore. Yes They're just not right. Um, and so like I would give it a disc a major discount to foot zhangor and minor discounts to the two disc guys Um, because I I want to see them on the table. Sure. They're they're just completely on like pushing those two tighter together Will mean that that army has more playability across the board again I'm not looking to like completely break flamers as a strat or pinks as a thing I just want to see them brought in line, right? Yep Uh So yes, I agree Um, all right. Cool. Good. No, I'm with that. I'm with all that Those are the major things for them. Um, I think that saraphon probably needs some adjustments. I don't think they'll get any I I hope they do because croak needs to go way up Yeah, croak needs to go up. He is and he is uh, uh Uh, what what was his name worked on vermin lord? I can't remember which one because I know let's get the vermin lord Yeah, it's confused. Yeah, but he is that guy level of under pointed right now Yeah, so where would you put him at? Probably a hundred points over where he is right now Wow, he's the best hero in the game right now I stand behind that Like power per point. He's the best hero in the game right now There's no way that's not true. I don't know who else would be even close Sure So like it's it's just He's he's way too good He would he single-handedly destroys some enemy army strats Yep, and I mean like I think on tabletop simulator like 16 of armies right now are saraphon armies Well, I mean The tts tournament that happened again, and I mean, you know like whatever. Yeah I just think croak is overcosted most of saraphon I actually think is pretty in line where I would where I would expect me. I could see a couple minor adjustments I could see actually a couple things down a little bit, but um But croak is just horrendously undercosted Yep. Yep. I would agree with that. So I'm sorry. I must disagree with you Uh, I would bring Uh, I mean sarah our storm cast just needs so much point work Across like they need war scroll work. Ultimately. We thought we thought again like to me It feels like it feels like like we did a fixing storm cast show where I think we cracked it I think most storm cast problems aren't points wise anymore at this point It's it's literally just like print the new storm cast book. Please. Thank you and just yeah, yeah And let's let's call it that way. I think we still need some point swings on night hot I still don't think we're there yet Um, oh a couple things to come down in night hot. You mean? Yeah. Yeah There are probably another one where worse will work would do more but sure Sure, but like hex race are one of the the egregious ones, but are they at the top of your list? Uh for things that need to come down and in night hot. I think so. Okay. Um Like glaive rates, you just can't make them Worth the plastic that they are You know, they they have a they have a problem a lot similar to the cygore Because like you get like three for 70 points right now or 60 And I'm not going to buy three models first, you know, like what they are for that It's just not happening. Like they just can't do the work that they need to do So unless you're going to give me three models for 30 points And that's just not happening, you know, like they're not going to put a unit like that in the game. Yeah, um Uh other stuff that needs adjustments. So I've got some I got some hits for you here. Yeah, I hit me.  It's all get out still in their new book. They're they're total trash And uh Like which is a real shame even in like the the host is where you super charge them there They're often underwhelming because they just don't have the durability Like right they just die really easy. There's still 15 wounds for like 300 points at this point And that is way too few on a unit like that The fact that I can go to cast knights and get basically the same durability For half for almost half the points, which by the way cast knights need to drop slightly As well I think it's fine This is what has me skeptical about the stone guard for lumineath Sure, because it looks like they're probably going to be five wounds for 100 points, which is the same pointing as As as varengard. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I mean, that's what we're talking about if they're five wounds for 100 That's varengard, right? Right. Um varengard just melt like like it's just like butter on a hot stove Uh, so Um So that's one that occurs to me But for the most part like I would I don't know what to do with marauders Again, I feel like marauders just need a war scroll change because I just think they're too good I don't I don't want that I don't want marauders to be just like this ultimate wind button of just dumb idiots flying forward Auto charging nine and getting super buffed But whatever like if you were going to make them worse You'd have to drop a couple of the things in the army to balance it out because the army does have like Lacks a lot of punch otherwise, right? um The uh When I look across the forces Okay, uh at at other armies um I think ogres have a lot of space right now To be played with like all the Thunder tusk huskard oriented junk. Yeah. Yeah their priests Need to come weigh the hell down. They are Vastly overpriced what they do like the decision right now between them and a stone horn is a joke. Yeah You're like nope. It's a joke that those are in the same zip code of price Right, right. I would agree with that. Yep. Um So, okay The scaven stuff that hasn't gone up, which is all correct all the point up moves in scaven are correct Um, the other scaven stuff needs to come down. So like Rat ogres and like especially a lot of the clan molder stuff. It's just way over pointed for no reason Uh, some of the clan eschen stuff that's way over pointed for some for no reason Like the things that nobody ever plays because they're just horrendously overpriced Yeah, uh for for like what those kinds of things are like the clan eschen stuff is They have no offense relatively no defense They can just kind of scoot around at a relatively fast pace those should be some of the cheapest things in the game If that's all they're going to do again if we're not going to fix the worst roles Uh, I think rat ogres are mostly fine. They just need to get cheaper. Right that kind of stuff Like they're just they're not tough. They don't hit hard enough and they're way overcosted compared to something like regular ogres Like it's not even close Right. Agreed. Agreed. Um IDK still have two big offenders in the two idolans Right who are still probably vastly overcosted at the rate they've been falling they they um Like at the rate they've been falling we'll get to the right place in about three years Um, so let's just skip that and and actually make those guys interesting because they're Some of the coolest models that have ever been released and should probably be cheaper Right Uh, so that feels like the right answer there Um, who haven't we hit? Is there anything else we haven't touched on that feels like a big? Uh, it feels like a big offender right now Assuming I'm not going to rewrite like a lot of the solo monsters that aren't heroes are still priced too high Okay, slightly Can I can I say something that is Probably going to be a little bit contentious sure Um, I would drop um I would drop Thunders 20 points I don't know that that's contentious, but okay. It's fine. Well. No, but it's going from like 120 to 100 Which is like a huge drop when you're only 120 points Yeah. Oh, so somebody just sure I don't think that's a problem Somebody mentioned the ever queen by the way the ever queen is not a points problem. The ever queen is a war scroll problem Right Yeah, I don't disagree a lot of things like beasts of chaos I feel like they're already pointed correctly, but they have the wrong rules again Like they need different allegiance rules or war score of your rights It's hard to get cheaper than what a lot of that army already is like they can already put 200 wounds on the table pretty easily We can't keep making that army cheaper Right, right, right. There's already a body problem with just actually completing a game at time with all the bodies you have Right, let's just make them better. So they're actually worth the like the points that they're at Yep, uh Okay Yeah, so like Um, I I got some more stuff. Sure Uh, well, oh rob. I hold on. I do want to say something here real quick That that that rob said which he's talking about storm vermin storm vermin has given definitely need to come down No disagreement there rob. You're right I should have said most stuff that went up was correct What I was really speaking toward there was like the grace here grace here on screaming bell The vermin lords that went up like all of that felt like the right moves. Okay The storm vermin are so tragically overpriced. It's a joke. So yeah, okay fair enough completely go ahead Um Uh, I'm gonna say that uh, we need to bring some of the glooms fight gets down Okay Who in the gift army needs to come down again where it's not a war scroll change because obviously the dank old Trogoths just need to get their war scroll fixed Right, but I that's just not gonna happen. And so I think in the meantime, they need like a significant point reduction Sure. Okay. I mean it's just I hate fixing a thing like that the wrong way around Well, it doesn't matter because we can't we can't fix it otherwise Like it just remains useless for the next four years until we get a new book sure Um, and so like they have to do something with it um And so like on some of it. I would drop points I've said it before like man those spider riders Um, they need to drop to 70 per five Because they're just so they're such paper. They're just tissue paper. They're they're the most paper Right now they're five. So 10 wounds at 100 points And like if you compare them with bounders side by side, like it's literally silly Sure, of course, that's a joke comparison. Yes, and that's in the same army So I have no problem with that comparison. I don't I don't generally love comparisons cross army. Yeah, I get it At 100 points. They're the exact same points cost at the exact same number of wounds. Yep. Yep Yep, I would bring both the fanatics and the splatters down slightly I'd adjust them down. Um, and honestly, I think uh, the The gabapalooza that unit That needs to just adjust down um But I think where I think looms fight would would Benefit the most would be in in their battalions all coming down Yeah almost across the board Glooms fight battalions need to come down between like 20 and 40 points Okay so, um Because yeah, like there's just there's a lot of issues and a lot of their battalions are really big And they don't do a lot for those really big, but you have to like get into those in order to yeah Anyways, I could go into it, but it's like I could see like some of that just needs to come down. Sure. No, I'm fine with that uh Yep fair super fair.   Yeah, I would agree with that drake spawn could come down Yeah, I like drake spawn. I think they've got a lot of potential as a scroll I think when we originally did cities, I my read on drake spawn was I like them But right now the comparison just doesn't work if you compared them against something like demigriffs Right, right, which aren't the same army. Yeah, no, I agree with that. Uh, they could come down. Um Yeah Yeah, I think that covers most of everything Yeah, I think that's like, I mean there's always going to be lots of individual stuff That needs weeks. Yeah, like somebody mentioned Glocken and the pluscoyle blightlords Again, I feel like both of those are are war scroll changes that need to happen Like they should be scarier things because they feel like they're at about the right points Like if Glocken dropped below a certain points level, he just wouldn't feel like the Glocken anymore He's supposed to be a big Just make it like that's a war scroll problem I think then like I think the like the midsize beasts in like nergal and slanash to the fiends of slanash the Um, the beasts of nergal. I think both of them could use adjustments. Oh god base of nergal Yeah, they just don't get you like there's just no function for them. They don't get used Um, and so I could see some of point's adjustments there to make them playable um The steam tank And the steam tank commander should be dropped slightly in cities. You mentioned cities Those are two of the things that should be dropped slightly like again Just as single shot cannons rolling around that are relatively tough. They're not they don't it's very hard for them to get Their points back. But again, probably like a 20 point drop would help them Um, and I think that'd be fine. Some people have mentioned fiends in slanash a couple times I feel like fiends probably just are never going to really have much of a role in slanash Because they just don't work with the slanash strategy like the slanash strategy is Is not about what fiends are doing and bringing to the table. That's honestly they couldn't what I mean by that is like Unless they were so egregiously cheap that you would be an idiot not to take them like you have their cost The problem is is that slanash is all about loading up all your heroes Carving hard for depravity with the most damaging things in the game and locusing people out whenever you can And having chaff in the form of like health strikers and stuff like that that moves fast and gets in the way With lots of bases and fiends don't do any of that. They don't make good depravity. They don't have any bodies to chaff They don't do enough damage to earn their like a place as a secondary hammer Like they're just they just don't do anything in the army. That's the problem There's 50 other war scrolls that are not that many but you get my point. There's like They are one of the like lowest pick war scrolls in the army when you look at what do how does this army win? What's its general strat? And then what units get me there and it's just there is a mile of distance in between those two, right? But I would argue that it's similar to the disjunction That's felt in uh, ko players with arco Um, because this because they they're not doing what the rest of the army does Um, sure It's not as bad because at least arco can go like sit on a point and not not be actively Detracting from the rest of your strategy like yes, they can still make some weak gunshots Whereas fiends point you put in fiends or actively points you didn't put in heroes because the general strategy with slanesh is literally like Uh, you buy your three battle line units and then you invest whatever's left into heroes Right and battalions like there is no point to any other battle line unit in the army Or any other non-hero unit in the army. It is a hero hammer army. That's why I love it Because I can only pay heroes and have a fully functional army. It's great. It's exactly what I want So I'm excited for giants Sorin said if a couple people said that like if fiends generated depravity or gave depravity in some way Could they make it worth it? Yeah, that could be a way to solve it. Sure. That could be good Um, yes, if they somehow like if they somehow had their own depravity generation then sure. Yep Absolutely that could solve the problem But again, I don't think it's a points thing Yeah, right So, yeah, I'm I'm with that soren. I think that's a great idea I don't know what that would look like, but I'm open to suggestions So Yeah, I think we get but right now like there is it would be like The easiest thing I could imagine tom to actually like if you took like let's take ko Is if there was is what sky wardens are doing Right like where sky wardens are completely overshadowed by another unit that does what they do Better in all ways shape and forms, right? And and just like it's hard to imagine like you'd have to drop the points on sky wardens lower Sort of significantly to make them of the better choice and even then well, you'd have to drop them 20 points Like if they were like three for 80 Um, then you'd have this really interesting like intersection. Sure That's my point you have to get way down there and even then it wouldn't be as bad because at least they still shoot They see like if the ko strategy is shoot to win, right? Right. They still have guns Right Well, and what I would say is that like arco the challenges is like they don't they one gun shoots 18 inches Nothing else does and if it's on and if it's all on objectives If they're if you're on objectives, they're not hitting the enemy like they're not they can't reach out and touch And so they they were the example that I was giving of like somebody that's just completely orthogonal Benefit wise to the rest of the army um Uh, the soren the as I said if fiend if the fiends dropped to 200 points for three Would you take six and slaves of darkness? No, absolutely not Like I they definitely don't have a point in slaves of darkness just because like I don't they're not doing enough in that army They're either yes, I can buff them but they're not They're they're still not earning enough for what I want in in a slanesh slaves, which I assume is what you're asking me Like in a slanesh slaves. There's just better choices For ko brak could come down boy Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean obviously brak is not poor guy. Like he's in another universe Yes, like he he does not compare favorably to the injured master I think this somebody asked is the psychic llama worth 100 or should it go up? I think it's exactly 100 We don't see them all over the place They get taken every so often tells me they're exactly right points value psychic llama Psychic llama cat at 100 is perfect. Yeah, it has a weird sort of effect that if used properly can be interesting How about on the spell weird utility piece? How about endless spells? Oh god? I don't know Uh, can I undo bound in the spells? Um Can I move all can I move the relevant bound in the spells that are too good up additional points? You could double their points No, I mean they shouldn't be doubled but the bound in the spells that are obviously too good should go up some points. Sure Yeah Like again, I don't need to be doubled. I'm not looking to break a strat, but I'm looking to like appropriately cost a strat So is warplight mean vortex still right at a thousand? You mean all right 100. Yeah, is it right at a thousand when I solved the problem? Never see that again outside of out of outside of Well, not even okay. Okay, it'd be done. Yeah, I never see outside never play Probably uh, I I'll be honest with you. I still hate it. I still wish we could just unmake it. Um But I I if you put it to 120 I wouldn't hate it I mean it's gonna show up in a lot of bottles. That's my fear. That's my my issue with it right like it's still just simply Like it is still just simply the best ko spell there is Uh, Manzac just said I want to hear Tom and Vince speak especially about h and aliens Look, Tom and I love h and aliens. We've watched like every season that show talked about it a lot We could do a show like that. I promise we could do an entire show on h and aliens There may or may not have been an alien reference in my dissertation. Absolutely. Yeah, we have we we're all about it But there you go Uh, but probably not on brand for this show Uh at any rate. Yeah, I mean, I think that's most of the critical ones, right? Uh at any rate I feel like I need to uh, I need to shut this down. My dog is in need of some help. So, uh, With that, uh, we'll say um We'll be back next week to do so exactly Uh, we'll be back next week to do soulbound. So Everybody, uh, thank you very much. If you've got your own suggestions for points adjustments, uh, please Go ahead and drop those down in the comments. I want to see those I think there's a lot of stuff here if you've got ideas for what you would like to see in The narrative section if you've got ideas, so I think there's so much stuff we can explore there I want to see some cool suggestions down there. Please drop that stuff in the comments Uh, if you've got other things you think should go into the match play section other ideas for scenarios drop those down there I'm always so excited to read that stuff. So please do drop a comment Uh hit like please that helps the increase the engagement and magical youtube algorithm things happen So please hit like I really appreciate that we really appreciate that it helps other people find the show It's a little button. It's right down there. You can just move your mouse like Yeah, and click okay, so thank you very much everybody for watching. We really appreciate it I hope everybody out there is staying safe. I hope everybody is, uh Be able to get out of their house Maybe a little bit as sort of things are easing up around the world But still being safe when they do so and maybe some games of Warhammer can happen here or there I know I'm excited to play a game or two as safely as I can as we all try to find our way in the world And uh, let's hope that we have some big news this Saturday. So with that Thank you very much everybody. We'll see you next Wednesday