Okay, I always do this in the wrong order. I did have a question about one of the consent agenda items about the contract having to do with a solid strier. So I don't know if that I could just ask a question during consent agenda time, or if it'd be easier to. Yeah, let's do that then. When we're in the consent agenda, but otherwise just like moving stuff around, adding things, taking stuff off. All fine. Okay, any thoughts. Okay, so we will consider the agenda approved. All right, general business and appearances opportunity for any member of the public to address the council on any topic that is otherwise not on our agenda. And if you would say your name and where you live and try to keep your comments two minutes, if you can, it's great. Yeah. All 16 of us here. So any Yeah, anyone want to address the council and just to be clear folks can raise their hand using the raise hand function under reactions or turn on your camera and physically wave or you can just unmute yourself and let's know you want to say something, but guessing that no one has a, I'm not seeing anyone so All right, we're going to keep going then on to the consent agenda so Lauren you want to go ahead. Thanks. Yeah, so just about the item eight on the consent agenda, the engineering contract for the solids dryer evaluation at the water resource recovery facility. I wanted to note for the group. So the mayor and Donna Barlow Casey were at a meeting last night of the Montpelier Energy Advisory Committee and there was just a question raised of had that gone out to bed. I don't know if people were like it seemed like a kind of expensive contract for just a feasibility study. So I just had the question about that and I, I know that there's been some kind of a lot of staff in and out in the last couple of weeks I don't know if Donna has the answer to that. And I just wanted to flag. I'm hoping that part of that will be scenarios that will will not necessarily like looking at the economics if we are not able to sell the bio solids, because of the contamination issues like that we would have you know what what is it and like the scenario where we could if we're able to treat it as a point and you know, but just knowing that like they could be a situation where we weren't able to actually sell them and so like the drying the solids and having less to ship and stuff is still going to have some savings and, you know, it's still a useful exercise and I know everyone was interested in seeing it but just just I'm hoping that that will be part of it and I don't know if Donna knows that off the top of her head, or just wanted to make sure that we would be looking at kind of the considerations of it just knowing there's that contamination issue that is still kind of concern. So, um, sorry, I don't know the details to that I was in for part of today at work and Kurt was in I had assumed he would be on this call. Is he on the call. He's not but I, I, I also thought he was going to be on for the plant you know the water sewer master plan so he may, we may just want to hold that question for now. And I was voted at the end of the meeting if we don't. But I think you're right, Lauren that those are the issues that should be addressed is you know all options.  And we got to figure out what the best way to do it isn't it, you know, maybe power generation even if it costs us, you know, might be cheaper, you know, depending on what options are so. So as is your, I don't know. But it sounded like we were going to maybe try to get some answers or at least hold off on voting this to the end of the meeting, perhaps. So we'll see where it pops on for the meeting. In the meantime, we can try to reach in and maybe get it. And in the meeting so you could vote the rest of the consent agenda hold on that. We'll see what we have for an answer. If we have an answer buddy. Don, it's very long to join with you just asking those questions was it bid and doesn't consider the options of, you know, if we can or can't sell. Okay. Okay, do you learn. Okay. So, but otherwise, is there a motion regarding the consent agenda. Jack move the consent agenda with the exception of item H. It's actually item I. Oh, no. And mine it is. I'm seeing I is the fiscal year tax. That's not the one I have, but fine long as there's some. To be clear, the engineering contract for solids dryer evaluation that water resource recovery facility. Okay. Okay, there's a second. Any further discussion. About the agenda. Okay, I'll favor please say aye. Aye. And opposed. Okay, so the motion carries and we will take up the solids dryer evaluation engineering study. Towards the end of the meeting. And so for now we are on to the water sewer master plan which is, I think, basically carried over from the last meeting. Okay. Okay. I think that's correct. I guess I'm turning this over to Kelly, I think. Correct. She. So you recall your presentation at the last meeting. And there were questions about the specific projects. And I think we sent that information out all of that night. So, and, but before you adopted the plan or took further action, you wanted to have see that and have that conversation. So Kelly is here. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And anyway. On to Kelly. I can just jump in for one minute. Sorry, Kelly. Kurt, I just got a hold of Kurt and he's just running a few minutes late. So he's jumping on in the next few minutes. So it won't take long to resolve the. Discussion. Great. Thank you, Donna. So just based on last week's conversation. I just wanted to make sure that we have a summary. If you would like to have a summary to that end. But essentially, you know, the master plan just takes all of the water sewer facilities and pipes and puts them into a plan so that we can afford to pay for them over the course of time. It kind of breaks it out over a hundred years and this plan is representative of 50 years. So we have a total of 1.2 million dollars. We have a total of 1.2 million dollars on each side of things, water and sewer. So in a nutshell, that's what this plan does. It does account for the projects that are known at this time. And then in addition, we wanted to make the recommendation to review and revise this every three years so we can kind of take a look at things in terms of whether or not we're meeting our benchmarks. If there are new standards to be met. And just generally to check in to see how things are going. We're on point with the plan as it was initially adopted in 2016. And I think by taking this review, we've been able to also take a look at our debt service ratios, which, you know, depending on the way you look at it, we are up against that threshold in 2023. If you don't account for the revenues for the wastewater treatment facility. So, but with them were below. So it's just making sure that we're keeping an eye on our policies and we can continue to do what we need to do. We know that we're going to have some. Investments that are needed. And other infrastructure areas like streets and roads, bridges, that sort of thing. So I'm happy to take specific questions or show slides. Up to you. Any questions folks have. I have a couple of questions here. There are a couple of things that I feel like I have to hold intention in looking at this. This information. Thank you for sending it along. One is, you know, one of the graphs looks like we are not really going to get started. Serious replacement until like 2027. Is that that. Okay. So that, that's accurate. That is accurate. So for the first couple of years of this plan, it's just sort of based on the appropriation and based on what we had in place to start, and then we really start to ramp things up. And so that's what you're kind of seeing. And the trend. Yeah. And, um, And the mayor, the primary is. Cause I think it is important to understand that is we have this huge debt payment for the water treatment plan. So if we're going to start ramping up, if we're going to start ramping up, then that fund money is available to be repurposed into one place. Yeah. That was the, that was the thing that I was. Thinking I was holding intention, right? So on the one hand. It would be great to do more. Projects sooner. And to really start ramping up now. But the tension is that we have this debt service. And I recall your graph where we're sort of slightly over. In a very short while. And that's, um, That's sort of the balance there is my assumption. And of course the only other thing that. That I. You know, I'm. Thinking about is, um, the potential need for emergency replacements and, um, And, you know, it's good to know that that is in the operational budget rather than the capital. Um, budget. Um, but, uh, Anyway, I, I'm very interested in making sure that we have. Uh, sufficient funding for, for that. And it does sound like we, you know, we are, we do kind of have our hands tied until. Until, um, until that debt. Service is. Generally paid off or. You know, reduced. Well, we have our hands tied. If you also want to stay within. The rate structure we've proposed. Sure. Try to raise more revenues. To pay for. Yeah, no, fair enough. Um, Any other thoughts or questions? Uh, from the public, Steve Whitaker here. Sure. Go ahead, Steven. Uh, I would also request it, uh, at your discretion, uh, opportunity for public comment. It's the website that would not serve up an agenda or call in details for, uh, until Don, I was kind enough to send me a replacement. Uh, this one. The, uh, with regard to the water and sewer, I think it's, uh, it's. I think further investigation of options for certain projects to begin to, especially, uh, remedying problems. We can't tolerate sewer gas at state East state in Maine for four more years, just because, you know, that's part of a grand plan.  And there's a restaurant used to be there. Uh, there's a new bakery opening right there and it's located. Similarly, the kids were swimming at the confluence and they were unaware that the combined sewer overflow comes in right above it, right above the bike path bridge. These kinds of things cannot be tolerated for four more years out. You need to insist upon an emergency. You know, prioritized what are our options to begin to tackle some of these priority projects sooner. Before we start, you know, total replacement. But I just want to emphasize that that's a. There are a number of projects like that. But those two come to mind immediately. Thanks. Thank you. Other comments. Yeah, Lauren, go ahead. Well, just kind of on that point, I know we've talked about it before, but. You know, I think. You know, I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. Thinking of what advocacy the city can do. Like around how the state. Arpa dollars are going to be spent knowing that they earmarked 225 million for water and sewer projects. For across the state for the next three years. So, you know, I'm sure the city staff are. Are on it, but, you know, for the next three years, that the. Project that, you know, these funds could potentially help us accelerate. Of course, there's like a massive backlog all over the state. So we'll be in competition for all of that. But, but certainly it sounds like the, you know, projects that they know are ready to go and like geared up and could get the money out the door in that three year window. I think it's going to be the trick. So. Yeah, we agree. And actually, with regard to the ARPA funds, assuming we get the full amount and the county situation gets resolved, you may recall we had about 1.4, 1.5 million in lost revenue that we had allocated for general fund projects, but it was another five to $600,000, some of which water and sewer are eligible. So, you know, as we think about how to spend that money as well, there is, you know, we could, in theory, have funding in the next year or two to be dealing with some of these direct issues outside of our normal rate structure. So, you know, we're obviously waiting on pins and needles to hear how that funding comes because it could make a giant difference for us. Yeah. I have one more comment slash question, I guess. I want to recognize that I'm a lay person. When I ask this question, my understanding is that some of our water infrastructure is in iron pipes and that we've been replacing some of our piping with high density, basically PVC. And I just want to express concern that PVC in the long run, even HDPE is, I worry about chemical interactions with that some flavor of interesting chemical in the future. And wondering about, and I know it's basically impossible at this point to get iron piping, it's also significantly more expensive if we could. Wondering if there's, like, are we are replacing iron, am I, well, so first of all, am I correct about that? In that we still have some iron piping and are we planning on replacing that iron piping with HDPE? Yeah, hi, this is Kurt. I can answer that question. Thank you. So yeah, the very early pipes in the city were constructed of cast iron. In the 90s, the city went to a ductile iron, which is kind of the new metal pipe available. It can't kick in no longer get cast iron pipe. And what we experienced is from the clay soils in the city is that we were getting very early failure in the ductile iron pipe. So a lot of that pipe that was in the 90s is already failed. That was the salt in the 90s is already failing due to corrosion issues. And that's really the reason why we started looking at alternate materials. You know, we started with PVC, we did some PVC projects, but when we really dug into it, HDPE, you know, is the only really available material that has the 100 year design life that we're shooting for under the master plan and and can really absorb the pressures because we have such high pressure in the city, it can, it can expand and contract rather than a rigid system. Every other pipe system is rigid. And so after a period of time of these pressure fluctuations, they weaken and fail. On the HDPE, we do soil testing and do a chemical analysis on the soils to make sure there's no petroleum contamination or anything like that that would potentially enter the water system. So we have a, you know, we have a protocol in place for making sure we're not, you know, putting the putting the water system at risk. Thank you. And I, I appreciate that I, I've definitely had this conversation before. And so this is a good reminder for me. And then our so so the ductile iron was a problem is the was the cast iron. I guess it's it's the cast iron is also rigid. So it's not going to be as flexible. But also, are we replacing a cast iron? We are the cast iron was much thicker, which is why it's lasted so much longer. The wall thickness on cast iron is a half to three quarter inch, whereas ductile iron is about like an eighth or a little bit more. So even though it is a rigid pipe system, because it's so thick, it has such a higher strength as it will last. But like I said, can no longer, you know, they don't make cast iron pipe anymore. It was phased up many years ago. Okay. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Right. Any other any other comments, questions, any motions folks would like to make? Jack, go ahead. I move that we approve the revised water sewer master plan. Second. Okay. Any further discussion? Okay. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. And opposed. Okay. So that motion carries. And so I think we are Mayor, while Kurt's here, you may want to take up that other consent agenda. Yes. Let's do that now. And then we'll give Stephen an opportunity to have some public comment. And then we will go to item seven, the outdoor recreation as economic development presentation. So All right. Lauren, do you want to just reiterate your question about the dryer study? Sure. Thanks. Yeah. So there were, there were two questions. One was, um, at the energy advisory committee meeting last night, um, it was just the question was raised if we had gotten, if it was a no big contractor, if we'd gotten multiple bids, people thought that it was just a little expensive for a feasibility analysis. So I just wanted to ask that question. Um, and then the other one was, um, just wanting to make sure that we'll essentially get scenarios or the way we'll get the, um, feasibility analysis will be able to kind of tease apart if we are able to or not able to sell the biosolids, um, for something like land application, knowing that we've got this, um, likely PFAS contamination issue. And I, I just don't want us to build a economic model around something that at some point we might not be able to do, or we might, it might not ever be a good idea to do. Um, so just hoping like the information we get, I presume it would be, but just wanted to just confirm that from you Kurt. Sure. Um, so we did not bid out the feasibility study. And the reason for that is, um, it's really tied to, uh, gas production. Uh, the methane production really, um, impacts the feasibility of the dryer study. And Brown and Caldwell was very involved. That's the, um, the engineer doing the feasibility study, uh, very involved in the phase one contract for design. And they have, um, a direct working relationship with ESG who did, uh, you know, was there a construction manager for the phase one project. And so ESG, um, is really working. They're a subcontractor to Brown and Caldwell on this project, um, to provide, you know, some of that gas analysis piece. And then the advantage of Brown and Caldwell is that they have, um, you know, they have all the plans. They're familiar with the project. They're familiar with the site. Um, the cost is not, uh, you know, really out of line. I don't think with the feasibility study is similar to other projects we've done. Um, no, I didn't see it as a red flag of the price that went along with it, but, but that was the reason why we did not, uh, bid it out. And we also, um, confirmed with the funding agencies. We spoke with, um, DEC and USDA to confirm that, uh, they were okay with, uh, a no bid, um, feasibility study and no big contract for, uh, awarding this. Um, and because, uh, Brown and Caldwell did, uh, the original preliminary engineering report for the plant. Um, we're basically amending that preliminary engineering report to include the, the dryer. Uh, so it is eligible for both USDA and state funding. Um, we want to make sure that was all set before we, um, brought it to council. Um, as far as the, uh, solids, um, disposal, we've had some discussions with, um, the residual management group from DEC, DEC. Uh, they've confirmed that, uh, with a class A solid, um, you can, uh, use this material for topsoil. Um, they, uh, the project will, um, or the study will verify whether or not this is a class A material or well, we'll be able to achieve a class A material. Um, so I mean, as far as selling it, I mean, that's, um, I, I guess that we won't really know if we can sell it, but we, we have an, I will have an idea if we can use it. Um, we've talked, um, high level about maybe, um, trying to set up a contract with the state potentially for, uh, using it in topsoil in their projects. Um, or maybe other towns. As a municipality, we can't sell it to the private sector, but we can to other government sectors. Um, so there's certainly a possibility there. It will not be able to use, uh, be able to be used for, um, you know, human consumption, um, uh, crop growth. You know, you could use it for feed, uh, corn, growing corn for feedstock, but not, not for human consumption crops. That answers your questions. In fact, I'm happy to follow up if you have, uh, other concerns. Go ahead. Can I just say, so like, I guess I'm just assuming that like the way we'll get the information though, we'd be able to tell like if, if we're able to make money off of selling the biosolids, just, just, I've been, you know, part of conversations with state lawmakers that have expressed concern about the use of biosolids that contain PFAS. And so, I mean, who knows from a policy perspective, what will happen, but I just, I just don't want us to get locked into a scenario that, if our options shrink. So, I mean, I'm assuming like that would be like a line item that we could say, well, if we can or can't, we can kind of make that judgment of like how big a driver in the cost, um, is that piece of it versus being able to, you know, the other potential benefits of being able to dry it, um, and have less transportation costs and that kind of thing. Yeah. Well, there is something that's presented in that way. Yeah. Um, so the first dryer we looked at, um, you know, the company or am I, they do, they will manage the solids for us. And, and do profit share. So there's an option there. There's a fee associated with that if we went, um, you know, through, through their contracting, but, um, but they have said that they would, you know, they would take the material, manage it for us and, um, and then share in the profits from that sale. So I think that is a certainty. You know, the regulations, of course, are not certain in the future, but, um, we did, you know, we did confirm with the state that we could at least use it for topsoil material and the interim for our own projects. Uh, and then potentially, like I said, um, partner with other municipalities or government agencies. But yeah, some, that's certainly a part of what we're going to be looking at. The overall economics is, is, you know, key to the project. Um, so absolutely we'll be looking at that. Thanks. Any other questions? Okay. Is there a motion regarding the engineering study? I go ahead, Jack. I move that we approve it as, uh, It's found in the agenda today. I'll second. Okay. Any further discussion. Okay. Hi. Hi. Thank you for that explanation, Kurt. Um, Very helpful. All right. Fair.  Oh, It's not connected. We cannot hear you.  We're getting some static, but I can hear you just then. Okay. Is that better? Okay. Okay. Great. Fair enough. All right. Um, right. So we're going to go back basically to general business and appearances. Um, Uh, as, as Stephen had, uh, uh, missed that. So, um, Go ahead, Stephen. Uh, thank you. Uh, I'd like to, uh, commend having, uh, several years later, we're finally got the driveway finished, uh, From the Barry and main intersection out to the parking lot. We missed the opportunity to get chargers installed, uh, both soliciting, uh, Tesla to put some in and put the other class, whatever chargers in there and make that. It's a downtown destination for charging. So people could shop and eat and wander the town while they charge their electric vehicles. Uh, that's unfortunate, but, um, it's not, it's not impossible to retrofit the lot. The fact that we're paying $1,600 for an electrician to come and program dimmable LED lights, uh, when we don't even need dimmable LED lights is absolutely absurd and wasteful at an example of the type of mismanagement lack of oversight that we have grown, uh, complacent with the trees. I mentioned this last year, last week, or the last meeting. We've got five city trucks, nine, eight or nine people consuming consumed day after day to plant a few trees. And this is prime weather and opportunity to be completing lots of the long overdue potholes and curbs and unsafe sidewalks. And I don't believe the public was warned or approved a budget that included that much tens of thousands of dollars, potentially in city staff and truck maintenance, uh, and amortization of materials to the budget they approved for planting a few trees. So I just questioned if anybody is scrutinizing what's really going on, the trees are nice to sit under a shade tree some years from now, but we're missing out, you know, winter will be approaching and we're missing the prime time to begin catching up on some of the long overdue public works projects. And people are kind of complacent about this, and it's just not okay. I mentioned the sewer gas already. That is more complex, but it should be solve a shovel ready when and if money becomes available competitively, which means design work should have been started on that already. You know, I talked to Tim Haney. He owns the building. You could conduit under, do some active ventilation from a, you know, a fan and a conduit and let it out above building height. You know, there's got to be some inexpensive way rather than doing a complete system rebuild, uh, to remedy that in the near term. Um, the July 1st, there's the experts and the folks that I've been talking to 70, between 70 and 120 people are going to be, uh, no longer eligible for the hotels they're staying in, and that's going to put a severe load and we have no plan in place. We have no showers, no facilities, uh, lined up to anticipate that, no huts, no camping approved, anything. And that's just, and if you wonder why, no, I'm going to make one more comment about the, I was shouted down with an angry public works employee in my less than a foot from my face with spittle coming out of his mouth for not having a vest and a hard hat and steel-toed shoes. And for the rest of the next two hours, every pedestrian who got lost by the improper routing and barricades, wandered out in the street in a narrow, closed lane with no guidance without shoes, without the proper shoes or even in sandals, and they got no reprimands. But our public works director doesn't see fit to reprimand that employee for his abusive behavior of a citizen just wanting to keep it safe. So I think you've got to manage with problems here. But, uh, the, almost, uh, an opportunity, I think we're, this is an example where you've agreed to form a task force on bathrooms, but that it's going to drag on until winter or next spring. Uh, I thought of a good name for it. Uh, do, do, do it would be a name for the committee. Uh, I spoke to the person who's renovating sweet molasses. He's open to the idea of co-locating an, uh, externally accessible public restroom on that building. Um, so there are opportunities if people get serious and we're ready to start acting, uh, that would necessitate the city cooperating in the design and the permitting.  Um, I think those folks leaving the homeless, uh, hotels are going to have cash in hand, but we know there's no apartments here for rent. So it's, we, we risk, you know, overdoses in campgrounds or overdoses in, you know, hidden places where they're going to be sleeping. So, you know, walking out of a hotel and into no place, no shower, no bathroom and $2,500 in your pocket, that in some cases is going to be a deadly recipe. So I've just worn in y'all. And if you wonder why I harp on the same things over and over again, I've decided the only way is to create a paper trail so that it's sovereign immunity you enjoy and rely on, uh, will potentially be punctured by, uh, gross negligence, uh, when you ignore this stuff too long too many times. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Steven. Other. Any other, any other members of the public? Um, Wish to say anything. Okay. Um, All right. Uh, so we are going to move on then to the. Yes. To the outdoor recreation. Um, economy presentation Alec. Yeah. Yeah. With the Prezi. Yes, millennial, millennial alert here. Um, you all brought 3D glasses. If I could just, uh, T this up a little bit before. Before Alex starts. Um, we have once a month, a leadership team meeting where we try to look at bigger picture of things and future.  And then we go through the process by which. We vote on and select the topics. And Alec had suggested this topic of. You know, mob pillar. As an outdoor recreation destination for economic development. And that got selected as one of the. The choices and we take turns leading the meetings. So I think it was May. That'll it did his presentation for us. I think one of the things that we had to do with the city council was the city council should see this. And to be thinking about, especially as we're going into strategic planning. And this particular meeting because we didn't have a lot. It seemed like a good time to do this. So that is how. We ended up here. The penalty for doing a good job in your staff work is that you have to do it again. For the public. So thank you, Alec for agreeing to. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, good job. Well done. So I'm hoping you appreciate it as much as we do. Thanks, Bill. And thanks to you all for making the time for this. I appreciate having the opportunity. I am going to share my screen. Assuming I can do that. You can. And I. I did send this out to you before. I have a question. I have been exported from Prezi and only exported about two thirds of the slide. So if you did have the chance to look through them, they'll be some surprises here. Yeah. So yeah, basically want to answer the question listed above. How to grow mobiliars out to recreation economy. And I just want to like spoil the ending right upfront. Which is that. story is, you know, the way, the way that I see at Montpelier, you know, there are a lot of towns in Vermont with great outdoor recreation, and there are a lot of towns with great downtowns. There are very few towns that have vibrant downtowns that are seamlessly connected to outdoor recreation. And that is the sweet spot that Montpelier could hit. And our downtown is clearly a strength of ours. And the outdoor recreation piece feels like a place that we are behind a lot of other communities, but a potential growth area for us. So this presentation is going to be all about making that connection between outdoor recreation and our downtown and economic development. So it has four pieces, and I'll go through them. Just to get us on the same page, we'll talk about what exactly is outdoor recreation and what are some communities that are positioning themselves as outdoor recreation destinations. Then we'll talk about what some of the benefits are, which is the wide-bother bubble. And then we'll do some sort of baselining about where we're at, especially in relation to other communities, and then talk about some strategies that we could use to capture some of the benefits that I'll go over. So what is outdoor recreation? It's not that complicated. It's anything outside. And the spectrum is like a nice amble from the new shelter to the tower that takes you 20 minutes all the way to like ice climbing with skis on your back so that you can get like first tracks down remote glade. All of that is captured within outdoor recreation. And you'll see, we'll see some communities that try to like focus in on a slice of that, and we'll kind of look at what slice of that mobiliar could potentially focus on. So some examples of communities that are doing a particularly good job. There's a nationally known Brevard, North Carolina. If you talk to anybody about outdoor recreation destinations who are sort of in this field, this would definitely be in the top five, top 10. Actually, their town kind of almost looks like mobiliar when you look at pictures of it. But a similar sized population, they have what one of the things they have going for them is that they have access to incredible public lands, federal lands in all directions. So Brevard is in Western North Carolina. So they have access to the mountains down there. And they have done a good job of capitalizing on that natural resource. And they have over a million people who visit there every year. The next one is a little more local, East Burke. So a lot of people have heard of Kingdom Trails, but for folks that are not deeply ensconced in outdoor recreation, you might not realize that this is like the place to go for mountain biking in New England. So if anyone is traveling from the region, you know, from the country or from the world, New England, for outdoor recreation, that they're probably going to come to Kingdom Trails. What makes them unique is that all of their trails are on private land. So they have a totally different approach from what Brevard has done. And then even closer, the Mad River Valley, and I picked this one out because I really like their approach. I think it matches a little closer to what we could do in mobiliar. They have a more holistic view that includes walking paths and hiking and swimming halls and more family-friendly adventures. They've been at it a long time. You know, I would consider them to have been on the cutting edge of this trend, you know, 35 plus years. Of course, there are multiple ski mountains, ski resorts in the valley, which certainly helps their case. But if you look at what they've done, they've done a lot that is off of the mountains and nits these communities together. So there are some video links if you want to check them out. I won't show them because it'll take too much time. Let me just change one thing here. And Connor is here. Sorry about that, but a bit of car trouble in Barrie. Barrie City Councillor, help me out. You can say what you want about Barrie, but great people. All right, just bear with me here for one second. Yeah, no worries. Share screen. Obviously, I'm not a Prezi whiskey there. So this is a picture from the ski trails up on in East Montpelier from this one that Jeb Walsford, which just it's a great photo. Solo skier out there. So we've been through all this. Keep on rolling. Mad River Valley. So going into the next section of what are some of the benefits about the recreation. There are a lot of benefits about the recreation and some of them are immediately apparent. The we could do a whole different presentation on say like the public health benefits, but tonight tonight is just focused on the economic impact. So this graphic here in the center shows broken down by state, you know, what the percent of GDP is and and if you see Vermont, other than Hawaii, we're actually the highest state in the nation as far as our percent GDP from outdoor recreation. This graphic up here in the top left shows some stats from 2020 national statistics, but you can see bicycle sales are up 121%. If anyone's been in the market for a bike in the last year, it's been tough, tough going. But it's great, you know, the pandemic has really awakened people reawakened people to the outdoors. So here are some Vermont statistics, just about sort of the economic impact in Vermont, 51,000 jobs, tourists spent $2.61 billion. And that trickles down to about a half of $1 billion in state, local and federal taxes. And that's those are just big numbers to digest. That's really the only purpose of that slide. A lot of money is involved. This is a little bit more impactful because it looks at local trail systems. So there have been a number of economic impact studies done on local trail systems. Berrytown Forest, the Millstone Quarry Bike Network, well, it's a multi-use network, but it's mainly focused on bikes. If anyone has never been there, it's an incredible place. It's all these trails that are woven in and throughout these old quarry holes, and they're all filled with water. There's swimming there and just incredible, incredible recreation. I'm not actually a mountain biker, but I know that a lot of people enjoy that place. So this study is from 2013, and they had, you know, $640,000 in spending that the study determined would not have happened in the area if the trails were not there. I'm sure that's gone up in the last seven years. Blueberry Lake, similarly, 2016, $1.2 million, $35,000 visitors. And then looking at Kingdom Trails is sort of like a marquee place. They've got over 100,000 users, and this was from 2016, and Kingdom Trails has blown up even since then. I'll just look at this graphic down here. It's from the Blueberry Lake study, and it shows where people spend their money when they go to recreate. And this is kind of like shows some of Montpelier's strengths, shopping, retail, restaurants, bars, entertainment, lodging. And this is part of where I'm growing. It's just how well Montpelier is positioned to dovetail with folks who are looking for outdoor recreation, because this is ultimately where people spend their money when they come to communities to recreate. And then I want to give you just a really quick snapshot into some local statistics. I haven't had the time to sort of like beautify these, so they're straight out of SurveyMonkey, but we did a survey with our local mountain bike association, Mamba. And we asked them a bunch of questions, but I pulled these four out.  And about half of the time people leave Montpelier. And the next question was, okay, so you leave Montpelier, what activities do you engage in? It's sort of very similar to the picture I just showed you from Blueberry Lake. People do spend money going out to coffee shops and eating out and getting gas, going to bars. Okay, so they're leaving town, they're spending money, how much money are they spending? Our local folks. So the average was $26. So they leave Montpelier, they take $26 elsewhere. And then where do they take it? Well, this is just a word cloud of places that people typed in. So you see Kingdom Trails on there, shows up in a variety of formats. Stowe, Millstone and Berry, Katie Hills and Stowe, Perry Hills and Waterbury, it might be by Spursa, I'm not sure, Calis. And I will add to, if anyone has questions, please just jump in. And if I'm going too fast, you can tell me to slow down too, if you want to take a closer look. So, you know, what is the right fit for Montpelier? How does our city sort of dovetail without recreation? This is a graphic from a national study on outdoor recreation that was put out, just, you know, it was just released a few weeks ago. And they go into a lot of the benefits and they're listed here on this graphic. And I just want to focus for today on the ones that are circled and blue. And so we'll dive right into tourism. So with Montpelier, you know, the sort of tourist experience like the classic tourist experiences, you know, do what this person's doing, snaps some photos at the state house, wander through our historic town, go out to eat somewhere lovely and, you know, then be on your merry way to wherever you're going, Burlington, Montreal, Stowe, or wherever. So what we're trying to do with outdoor recreation is to turn a few hour visit into an overnight visit or a weekend visit.  And then the next day, you're in your car, you're going over to Barry to the Millstone trails, you're going out to Eatonbury, coming back here having dinner in Montpelier, staying another night. And then, you know, the week, so nice, nice weekend package, and you're on your way. This is really, I think, something, an aspect of our community that I think we undersell, which is that we're so close to so many amazing outdoor recreation destinations year round, between all the ski mountains and all the amazing mountain biking and all the hiking. And then you add to that stuff all the stuff, all the things that are right here in town, if we're able to sort of package that for people into something that's more attractive and they can hold on to, that will draw more tourists to town. You know, there's, there's a lot of people who I think would much rather stay in Montpelier than stay on the mountain in Stowe or or Sugarbrush or somewhere. Or similarly, like folks come to go to Kingdom Trails, they're coming to Vermont. You know, maybe they don't want to stay in East Burke, maybe they want to stay in Montpelier. And the mom wants to go shredding early bike trails at Kingdom Trails, and the dad would rather stay in town and eat ice cream or something. Or, you know, people have different interests to go to put a movie. So we can capture that those folks who want a more rich experience. On the right, I just put some numbers as far as what Kingdom Trails has found in their economic impact studies. This is from non Vermont. People who are coming from outside of Vermont, day visitors spend $376 per party is how they broke it down. And overnight visitors are spending, you know, triple that, at least quadruple that. The second piece is about attracting businesses and quality employees. So this I think is could be one of our biggest strengths could be one of the biggest advantages that outdoor recreation offers to the city of Montpelier, which is to for one thing, attract quality people to the businesses that are here, since we're such a employment center for the state and for national life. You know, they can use that in a recruitment package where everything is so accessible in Montpelier. You have this vibrant downtown and you can also go for these great outdoor recreation adventures on your lunch break. You know, in the winter, you can zip out to Hubbard or up to North Street and go for an hour long ski. Just so many options that are right there at your fingertips. National Life Group actually has used this in their marketing pitch or in their recruitment pitch as a totally side beef tangent. They don't open up their trails to public access, but they use their outdoor recreation and their recruitment. So I'd love to get in there somehow. But that's, yeah, totally aside from this presentation, just quick plug if anyone knows anyone influential there. And then on the left, you'll see Caledonia Spirits. I think that's an example of a business that is looking for a place that people are going to come because the town is a destination and they're part of that destination. And outdoor recreation is another piece of that. If there are trails right out the door from Bar Hill going across the street into Saban's Pasteur and all into the fields and forests up there, that would be a big draw for them because there's parking, there's food, there's drinking, there's trails, it's all part of the package. The next piece is kind of bringing in that like $26 statistic from Mamba. You think about folks coming from other communities and spending $26 and mobiliar. Well, if you multiply that by 10,000 people over the course of the year, all of a sudden we're splashing down a quarter of a million dollars in our downtown because we're attracting people to recreate in our community. If we could get 100,000 people coming here from all over Vermont or the region just because they want to come to Montpelier and go skiing, hiking, biking, and eat in town, now we're up into multiple millions of dollars that have been dumped into our community from other places. And then the last bit is about attracting new residents. This is obviously a complex issue and outdoor recreation is not the silver bullet, but it is part of what we can do to attract more folks here. And especially the part that I'll emphasize is just attracting young families, you know, young, doesn't have to be families, just young people. Obviously aging population is an issue in Vermont and outdoor recreation is compatible with attracting young people to the area. And I'll just pull up this quote here, which was in that same national study, but it was from a woman who moved to Vermont because of all the things that she lists, you know, access to world-class recreation, rural landscapes, small towns, resilient ecosystems, community support, and local agriculture. So, you know, that's Montpelier right there. And then this is not from the graphic, but I just added this because it's important to me. The bringing in the youth piece, you know, we don't have to build all of these trails with, you know, professional contractors on excavators. I think that's one of the great things about outdoor recreation is that you can do community building while you're also building trails. And there's so many benefits that flow from this as far as, you know, physical and mental health.  Since we built the mountain bike trails in the North Branch, or the multi-use trails, I should say, I, you know, I can't tell you how many more people I see up there when I'm working out on the trails. I was there over the weekend with my kids at the pump track. And I was counting as people went by on the path there and 45 people went by in a half an hour. And their groups of kids, their families, their, you know, older people, their kids on Strider bikes. And this picture is from a middle school mountain biking after school club. I had like 25 kids in it and was going to the North Branch every day biking from the middle school. And there, that just wouldn't have happened without that project, you know, without that one of the projects. And it's such a great thing. I was at the, I was working over there a few weeks ago and this group of kids rode by. And one of them, they'd just come down like some descent and one of them went, that was totally wicked. And then the kid behind him was like, yeah, that was awesome. It's just the most endearing experience ever. Okay, so let's see. This is where we're at right now. I think I don't have too much into this because you're all very familiar with Montpelier, but we have, you know, this map will sort of show along with the along with the path that runs through town. This is sort of the bulk of our network network from the State House all the way out to the North Branch Park and East Montelero. So it's a great, it's a great start about 15 miles of trails. Alex, excuse me, sometimes you get really soft and I can't hear you. Okay, I'll try to lean in and talk louder. Okay, thanks. I'm not a loud talker. So thank you for that feedback. Okay, so they say I think they say comparison is the thief of happiness. But here we go. This is kind of how we stack up to some other towns. Montpelier, 15 miles of trails. How many users do we have? We don't really know because we don't count them. That's something that we are trying to do and we've gotten some grand money for trail counters, but it's an important metric that we just don't know. Other towns looking at Waterbury, 20,000, Berrytown, that's old statistic. I'm sure they're way up from that, all the way up to Kingdom Trails, which is well over 100,000 users now. And then in terms of miles of trails, a lot of these communities have double, triple and more actual miles of trails. And that's an important metric, which is that when folks want an outdoor recreation experience, they're generally looking for something that's longer than Montpelier can offer at the moment. At least with biking and skiing and some of these more active months. I would say we're like five to 10 years behind the communities that have been riding this wave and like 10 to 30 years behind those that were really on the cutting edge of this. But it's not all bad. We have some great things going for us. And obviously our downtown, our historic just amazing downtown is really stands out. And people come here for the State House, Hubbard Park, we're centrally located, like I mentioned before. And we have amazing topography like many towns in Vermont, you can be from upland for us down to like a very lush riverside environment within, you know, on one trail. And then the rivers, I mean, I know we've talked about this before, but the rivers that we have are just such an underutilized resource for many things outdoor recreation among them. If we could get on water recreation into our matrix of offerings, then that would be a whole nother thing that we could offer to folks who want to come here. And then I put a question mark after strong stable employment because that's a little bit unknown as far as when folks are coming back or if they're coming back, but hopefully that's still going to be a strength. And then we've also had some recent wins. You know, I've gotten over a million dollars invested in this sector for us in the last couple of years. A lot of partnerships here coming in and talking about Mamba, Montpelier alive, Vermont River Conservancy. I won't go through all these here, but there's just been a lot of a lot of good momentum lately. And yeah, and that's all, you know, sort of non-budgeted, non-budgeted money coming into North Korea, new money. All right, so we're into the last section here, which is, you know, what are some strategies that we can use to capitalize on our strengths and seeing the benefits of outdoor recreation? You know, the first step to doing that is really understanding, you know, what, who are we, what are we, what are we chasing here in the outdoor recreation field because it's a broad field? And so answering the question of who are we could be, you know, let's start with who we're not. We're not a resort town. We're not like one of these very rural destinations like you see in trails or Greensboro, Randolph.  We also don't have access to huge federal lands. So we're sort of a small community, both inland and in population.  But we do have a lot of strengths and I am not going to go through these in the interest of time because if anybody knows Montpelier strengths, it's probably this group. But the takeaway for me here is that we have a community that's really well set up to capture the benefits of outdoor recreation. People who are coming to engage in outdoor recreation are looking for what Montpelier has. We just don't have the outdoor recreation piece of it. Well, if and when we do, we have everything else that folks are looking for in spades. So this work as far as like strategies has really come out of work we've been doing with Montpelier alive. So we've got a grant to work on outdoor recreation and economic development with Montpelier alive from the trust Republic land. And then we got another grant from the state of Vermont with sort of the same mission as part of their VOREC book, which stands for Vermont outdoor recreation economic collaborative VOREC. And they Montpelier alive because they are a conduit for so many things going on in Montpelier. And they're also like what people see when they come or when they're looking at Montpelier, they've been really helpful. You know, Dan has been really helpful at helping us sort of hone our vision of how we can make this effective. So three strategies. Number one is telling the right story. And this is this was the takeaway that I, you know, set up top like amazing downtown, amazing outdoor recreation seamlessly connected. That's a beautiful presentation right there. And then telling the story about how close we are to all kinds of other outdoor adventures. Partnerships are going to be really important here on the left of sort of our outdoor, some of our outdoor recreation partners and on the right, some of our economic development partners. Strategy number two is strategic investments. So, you know, number one is connecting our trails to our to our downs so that adventures can start and end downtown. A good example of this is like the Statehouse path being connected into Hubbard Park, which is then connected to North Branch Park. Well, can we get that can we can we improve that gateway to our parks to, you know, A, be more visible, B, potentially have more uses, you know, could we somehow incorporate bikes into that state parcel so that you can park downtown, bike all the way through Hubbard and out to the North Branch Park and into East Montpelier, come back and you end downtown. And then you're right where you want to be for for food and everything else that you want. There's a number of projects that, you know, are very have a lot of potential as far as adventures starting and ending downtown. Number two here is growing, you know, our large natural areas to create longer experiences or connecting different areas to create longer experiences. And that, you know, an example here would be like like if national life were to open their trails to public access, for example, like all of a sudden that would be a whole new sort of sphere of outdoor recreation that could have a different vibe than than our current offerings. So different people are looking for different things.  We want peaceful hikes. We want ADA accessible trails. We want on-water recreation. We want winter activities. Having that variety and having longer experiences is how we're going to get there. I showed that statistic about sort of the number of trails that folks have. You know, if you think about Kingdom trails having over 100 miles of trails, we're very far from there. Like we may never get to 100 miles because we're just too small community. But with partnerships both in Montpelier and without, we can start getting closer to that. And that sort of dovetails into the last bit, which is just thinking about some of our regional partners. Certainly Wrightsville jumps out across Vermont Trail with the new bridge going in. Other towns too, like Northfield has a plan now to have a bike path all the way to Montpelier to the border. And, you know, Berry City would love to be on board with the CDR. And so there's some momentum behind some regional conversations. As we got, as part of our bill rec grant, we partnered with the regional planning commission to host regional meetings with outdoor recreation and economic development stakeholders to develop ideas for the region that CDRPC is sort of like holding that ball because it's just too big for Montpelier parks to take on. And there, we just had the first one last week and there are some great ideas that have come out of that, including like a sort of regional recreation district kind of like Wrightsville does, but on like a bigger scale. And there's a lot of, you know, Vorek funding coming down the pike. So that type of partnership is what Vorek is looking for with this grant grant round and and could be a real growth area for the region. So that is the end of the strategies. And that's also the end of the presentation. And so if folks have any questions or comments where he felt like there's any questions, I would love to hear them. Great. Thank you. Okay, great. Thoughts from council? Oh, first of all, I guess I'll just jump in and say that was delightful. Super interesting, very informative. Really encouraging, actually. Even though we may not be these other destination towns, it sounds like we have a lot of potential. And yeah, I'm looking forward to just hearing about some next steps. I do have some other thoughts, but I'm going to hold off on that for now. Other comments or questions from council? Yeah, go ahead. I think I spent more time in parks the last year than I have the rest of my entire life put together and really developed an appreciation for what you do, Alec. Just a cross-country ski, and I was talking to a family over by the North Branch there, saying they cross-country ski all over America, and it was like the city-maintained trails that are some of the best they've ever seen. So that's a real credit to you guys. So a bit of a selfish question, but disc golf is the fastest growing sport post-pandemic there, and I was a bit curious behind the old shelter, noticing a few baskets pop up. So I see this as something that could bring tournaments to town. People travel for this, and there's some really big events. So is that just a private course that's kind of starting up? Do you have an update on that? That is a private course. It's very well posted on the Hubbard Park side, and I don't know the folks, but if they want to make it public access, I'm all for it, and I completely agree with you that a city disc golf course would be a wonderful thing, just a place and funding for it is all we need. Yeah, go ahead, Jack. I can really relate to this presentation. As you were talking about attracting people, I was thinking about the two days I spent in Vermont when I was interviewing for a job to come to work here, and the interviews culminated with me sitting at the Montpelier office of legal aid that used to be on Elm Street, and we're up on the second floor, and the executive director pointed out the window behind him and said, see, people in this office go cross-country skiing up there at lunchtime, and it was true, and it was great. It was a real attraction. I think that what you're saying here is really captures some of the opportunities that we have in Montpelier. I don't know if anyone else remembers this, but it was about two years ago, we had a presentation at the city council from a guy who was wanting to put on a big Frisbee golf tournament at Wrightsville, and he had grand designs of bringing people in from all over the country to come and play here, and if it ever happened, I never heard about it, and I expect it just never happened, but while you were talking, I did a search for tournaments in Vermont, and they're all around. Jeffersonville, Enesburg, Randolph, Montgomery, Brattleboro, Waterbury, North Callis, but nothing at Wrightsville, and it seems like that's something that could easily be done, not easily, because I know it takes a tremendous amount of effort to organize any kind of tournament, but it definitely seems like an opportunity, and so I think this is a great idea to be thinking about how we can expand what we're doing to bring even more people to this great community. Donna than Jay. I think Lauren had her hand up maybe for me. Lauren, did you want to say something? Oh, I just had a brief, this great presentation, Alec, and really exciting, and I love the vision and the creative thinking of a variety of opportunities. I was curious, kind of in the vein of what Connor and Jack were asking, how often, in what you're finding, for those towns that become the hubs, how often is it events or something that centers, that draws people in, and then they're like, oh, what a great community, and I want to come back here and recreate versus just other forms of advertising or trying to get pieces in outdoor magazine and other places that you might be able to get attention and get people to think of us. I was just curious about that piece, because I mean, I think you're building amazing stuff and they expand to get more broadly and regionally, and us as a hub for other great destinations nearby and all that. It's like, how do we get people to come discover it? So just curious about that. Yeah. Every community has their own secret sauce, I think, and it's a little bit hard to pigeonhole one thing. I guess if I were to point out one thing, it would just be that the communities that are really successful are identifying their strengths and then telling their story really well, and then the people come. It's not that complicated, but like Kingdom Trails, they're a beautiful rural destination, and it's all on private land, and they have told that story really well, and people come there to see this amazing collaboration between the residents of Vermont and the school trail system. So for us, that's why the Montpelier alive connection is so important, and all the credit to Dan for having that mind, because it's certainly not certain to where my mind is necessarily going, but when people look at Montpelier, they have no idea what Hubbard Park is, or the North Branch Park, or Greenmount Cemetery, or anything. They just go to Montpelier alive and they look at what's on offer there, and that's what they do. So that particular partnership is so important for us to present, which I think what your question was, to present everything that we have to offer in the right way that people can actually find it. Does that answer your question? Yeah. I mean, can we get Kingdom Trails marketing plan? How did they tell that story really well, and where? And then I guess just the other piece I was curious about is events, as attractors, are there places where if you hold certain annual events, and I know we've got some great ones already, but was that an anchor or an attractant that you've found successful in other places that we should be thinking of? Yeah. I don't think I really know to that level of detail what has made people successful. I will say, actually, this was the picture in the presentation, but I didn't zoom in on it. Our economic development strategic plan, when you look at all of the page that has all the plans, the five-year plans, outdoor recreation is not on there in any single one of them. And that's a good plan, and it was written by smart people. But I think it just shows that this was not really on our radar when that plan was written. And so as we update that, and I guess this is really why I'm here, is to just draw attention to this as a potential strength for our city. And as we update that, those kind of questions of how do we be successful as an event, as a marketing, and how exactly we do that is probably the next layer down. But I don't feel like I have the expertise to really know that at this point. Go ahead, Donna. Yes. And to build on that, I guess I'm remembering when Jeff and you came, I would say six years or more ago, talking about this kind of idea, when the kingdom was first starting their trails. But we didn't put a lot of money, if any, towards it.  So I think kudos to you, and sorry, we, the council hasn't done more to support it. But you know, why not use that, which other people are doing? Ritesville? Great. Let them have the discourse. But you could connect with that. The parks could connect with that. We can have flyers there. We could maybe even start some of that East Montpellier snow skiing trail that you've expanded to other kinds of expansion and connections that go that far out. So I think there's, we don't have to do everything ourselves, but we can connect to those things that are there, even Waterbury, Northfield. We can put and market our trails there because they're something different. And then we also have different restaurants to connect with them. And once they come, they'll come back. So I really encourage any way that we can assist you on marketing to the locations people are going and capture them to then come come to us and to use us. Does that make sense? I love your presentation. Thank you. But yeah, yeah, that makes total sense. I mean, we in this in this regional meeting last week, there were, I think 40 more than 40 people. Very, very city, Northfields, Calis, Middlesex, East Montpellier, you know, and not just trails people, economic development people. So there's a lot of interest in this right now. And the big, like one of the big takeaways from that meeting was that we have so much, like there's so much here, but it's kind of, it's like really hard to find like it can take years or you need to know the right person to know all the different nooks and crannies for outdoor recreation. And a big step forward for the region would be just to like, let's get what we have out there and collaborate a little better. So we need a lot more maps on our website. And probably old fashion probably needs some more brochure like things to put other places or little posters we can put other places that are laminated, you could put on somebody else's trail, and they could put their trail on ours. I mean, let's bring them to Central Vermont. Let's share. Thank you. I'm Jay. Yeah, I've got a lot of thoughts on this. I'm not quite sure where to begin. You know, I've been fortunate to be having these conversations with Alec for a while. And I know we're not making a decision on anything tonight, but I guess if I was going to emphasize one point to the council is to not underestimate the potential of what Alec is talking about, that what this could mean for economic development and recovery in Montpelier. I think that it's an incredibly, it's very fertile ground and it's underutilized market for how we talk about Montpelier right now. And I think it happens on, it's kind of on two levels. To Donna's point, we are a hub. Like we are in the middle of so many opportunities. It could be Northfield, Stowe, Waterbury, whether it's skiing or biking, cross-country skiing, you name it, like that's one story to tell. But then at the same time, thanks to Alec and all the good work that's been happening for so long, there's these great opportunities also right out our back door with cross-country skiing and the North Branch trails, et cetera. Obviously, we don't have a ski mountain here, but you know, there's a lot of those opportunities. And we have this, we have a downtown that people can come back to. And so like telling that story about how we are, we are both things that we are, it's right out your door, but also it's a great launching point is important. And as someone who manages the short-term rental, I can tell you probably half of the people that rent that house are come here because they can go to all these places in our area and then come back and then walk downtown for dinner. And they can't do that in other places. So, you know, there's a lot of details, there's a lot of nuances. It's definitely a huge opportunity for, I think it is, I know that it's a huge opportunity for Montelia and us, you know, Alex said, working with Dan to help develop the marketing around it, develop the story around it. I think that it's something that we as a council, as we're thinking about economic development and how we are sort of rethinking that into the future and post-pandemic, need to keep a real close eye on because like I said, this is really fertile ground and I think that there's a huge potential there. Yeah, thank you. I agree. Any other thoughts? I just have one more comment, which is that, you know, I intentionally didn't like talk about any specific projects tonight because mostly in the interest of time, you know, there are a lot of exciting projects on the horizon and they'll come up in due course, but those projects all take time and I just want to like link this back to a couple of years ago when the council approved, you know, more staff for the parks department that are actually doing the good work in the parks and that allow, you know, me to pursue these projects that take time and I really appreciate all the, you know, good, nice things that have been said, but, you know, all the credit goes to the staff in the parks and to you for freeing this position, you know, the director up to actually pursue some of these bigger goals. So there's a linear thread between, you know, what was decided back then and what's happening now. Yeah, thank you. I have one other thought here, which is one of the things that is on my radar is what was sort of mentioned, I guess, in your presentation regarding the rivers. So I know there's been discussion about having greater opportunity on the rivers for recreation, you know, potentially creating some kind of a standing wave, you know, that does that involve taking out dams? I don't know what like what all would need to happen there. Also, I know that that is more complicated because the state is involved as they own the bottom of the river. But I just want to put that out there is that the rivers to me feel like a really unique opportunity in that I guess it's not something that I feel like I see. Well, like the focus of your presentation was was biking and trails and fair enough. It would be interesting to see if there's comparable data for for kayaking for water recreation. And, you know, what is the opportunity that we have with our unique setup with the rivers. So that's that's something that I would love to explore more, especially as maybe I mean, I'm perfectly willing to be wrong about this, but it seems like there is opportunity there, you know, for for a narrative around water recreation. So that's, yeah, totally with you, totally with you. I mean, VRC is working hard on that. We actually just found out that we did not get a grant to get to like 30% design for just for what now? What's that? Oh, we lost you at the very end there. You didn't get 30 to 30. Yeah, we had applied for a grant with the River Conservancy to to get to 30% design for two or three dams in Montpelier. And it was a slam dunk and we got denied on a technicality, which was a little annoying. But you know, that's definitely like on the front burner, as far as our partnership with VRC and and it's it's a long road that has to do with dam removals and CSOs and access to rivers. But yeah, definitely a priority and appreciate your focus on it. I think Confluence Park is a great start. Yeah. And yeah, I want to recognize that that is an expensive long road. That's that is fair. But but it's, you know, it's worth, you know, it's worth movement in as fast as we can. So thank you for that. Mayor, I have a comment on this when you go ahead, Stephen. I just want to point out that it's, you know, proposed increase of recreational traffic is going to be constrained by accessibility to public restrooms. You know, it's not it's the tourists, it's the home, homebound people and it's the unhoused. They're all going to need, you know, in many locations. And similarly, the recreation on the water is going to be constrained by our dumping sewage and PFAS into the river. We don't want to attract people to be poisoning themselves. So these are, you know, sobering and unpleasant dimensions to, you know, our grandiose plans, but we haven't been able to get bathrooms for two years. Let's anticipate our trail system, you know, not growing for at least two more, you know. Thanks. Thank you. Also, I'd like to point out that we do have public restrooms available in the form of Port-a-Jones. So it's not that they're not existent, but we could certainly do better. But thank you. All right. Other thoughts? Yeah, Jack, go ahead. Just one small point as we're talking about the trails in Montpelier, not really appropriate for biking trails, but I would include as in maps and stuff, the trails at the cemetery. For walking, there's a lot to see there, and it's definitely something that would attract some of the population, some people who want to do that. Sorry, you said the cemetery? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, cool. Yeah, thank you. And Mayor, I requested the presentation 45 minutes ago, the copy of the presentation be emailed, and I still haven't got a response. Thanks. Good. Noted. Thank you. Oh, I like it too, because it was expanded from the one we got with the agenda, if you could. Yeah, yeah, I'll figure out a way to get you the whole thing after this. Great. Lots of good data in there. All right. Any other thoughts or comments on this? Okay. Great. Thank you. Thank you again, Alec, for this. And yeah, really inspiring and look forward to further conversation about how we can help make this happen. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Yeah, for sure. All right, so we are on to just the last part of our agenda here, council reports. And then we are basically done. So we'll just, we'll go around in our normal order, if that's okay with you, Donna. I'm going first. Oh, you're muted though. That's a good report, quiet. Well, my home or special meeting is really short. I'm going to go away to the ocean for two or three weeks. So I will be checking email irregularly. Hope you all enjoy yourselves. Bye.  That's great. Connor. Right. Just a reminder, we got Juneteenth. That's going to be Saturday at five, food, music. It was a great event last year. And the organizers are encouraging folks to wear masks at that celebration. So try to be there every 10. Thanks. Yeah, Jay. I'm going to pass tonight. Thanks. Great. Jack. I'm sticking with the theme. We passed our resolution commemorating Juneteenth last week. And, and then we just, we just learned that yesterday, a bill passed in Congress to in the Senate to make a Juneteenth federal holiday. And the Senate is where it has not passed before. So it goes to the house. And that seems quite likely that that's going to happen. So it's I think it's a long overdue recognition. That's all I've got. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, that's great. We're encouraging. Lauren. Yeah, only thing I wanted to note was I, I just realized I think my city email hasn't been working, which I know has been an issue, but I've been getting enough emails to my, my other email account is linked to that, but I didn't realize it. I think for maybe a week plus. So just wanted to apologize to anyone who has been trying to reach me through my city email and I will work with the IT person to try to get that fixed. But apologies if anyone's waiting on responses for anything and I'll try to get caught back up as soon as possible. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. And I will also pass this evening. I think next is John. Ah, no, I'm good. Just can't see me. I'm good. I'll pass. All right. Fair enough. And Bill. Yeah, I've just got a couple things. So first, Lauren, you mentioned the email and for those that aren't aware, this is as much for the public, we did do an upgrade of our email system last Thursday and it has caused a few snakes and snags along the way and particularly with council email. So for members of the public that have reached out to council members, it may, you know, it's not necessarily them if they haven't gotten back to you. I do believe our reps from our company VC3 have tried to text or reached out to everybody. So if you haven't had a chance to do that, they want to get you set up. It is going to be something different, I think, than it was before, but better. They really don't want to do the forwarding anymore. They feel that's a security risk. So they're setting you up with your own accounts to go through. So there's that. Yeah, I noticed the Juneteenth federal passing. I thought that was great, especially at the same time when many of the same people are urging that none of that be taught about in schools and that people shouldn't be able to vote. So nice that they made the holiday. Cameron wanted to do an update about the pool. Good evening. I hope everyone's doing all right. So with the governor's change to some of the COVID guidelines, our state licensure has changed their requirements for the day camps and daycares as well. They are recommending masks for the children inside. So we have no reason to keep the facilities closed or anything separate. So we will be opening all of the pool facilities to the public. We are going to ask that unvaccinated folks wear masks when they enter the pool house. And we will be keeping the inside of the pool house. So we've basically created sidewalks around the edges for people to go to the restrooms and to use the showers. But the inside of the pool house will be reserved for the day camp. And we do ask that people, if they are unvaccinated, wear masks inside the pool house just to keep our unvaccinated children safe. So we do want to let you know that we're still on track to open on time. That we thought we were going to aiming for the first week of July. So hopefully the July 4th weekend, we'll be communicating that soon. We'll have a better idea on that soon. But we have changed what our opening guidelines are going to be. Great. Thank you. Yeah. So I think that will make people happy that I'm wearing masks at the pool. I just wanted to think I wanted to give you an update on this isn't, I think, a super big deal, but you probably should know about it. I very kindly was got a contact from the town administrator in Berlin, who I think is seeking to sort of improve our communications and relations. So they are thinking a couple of things that I went over and met with them today about in Berlin at the pond. Just so you know, when you go in kind of the main parking area near the access, the now river pond access that we fought so hard. But as you go up the road to the left, I think that's called Pain Turnpike South. They're going to add a few more parking spaces there, particularly for walkers and bikers, because it is getting crowded. And we took a look at it. It's really all within their road right away. So they don't need anything from us. But I thought it was very kind of them to sort of let us know and just communicate and get our opinion. And I told them, you know, I thought we weren't crazy about the access, but if it's there, we want it to be safe. And we appreciate, you know, many people from up here do use that facility. So that's the thing in case you get asked about it, but none of that will be on city property. Secondly, same topic, or, you know, the, if people know the Darling Hill Trail, it kind of, Irish goes, you know, on the other side of the pond where you go up the hill, there's also really shaky parking there, not very much. So they're looking at putting parking, either reconfiguring the parking space there, or as you go, right, if you go up the trail, there's like two stones, then you go to the right, there's a big open field right there. And they're just thinking of making, making that field additional parking. And some of that could end up on the city's property. The road itself is, is town right away, but this city property. And again, I didn't feel that was going to be a big problem, but I do feel like we should have some sort of legal agreement at that point, you know, either a use agreement, or easement, or whatever. So, and then lastly, they are making improvements to the bridge along there, actually the state, I think, and vast and others are making an improvement to that first little wooden bridge. And again, that's all in the town right away, but they, while they're doing the work, they'll need to sort of take heavy equipment across city land. And again, I didn't really see a problem with any of that. It's maintenance work, and we all benefit from that bridge. But I did tell them that given the sensitivities of the pond, and the rights of way, and all of that, that I would be sure to bring it to your attention before, before I offered them any formal comment. But it all seemed okay to me, but wanted to make sure you were, you'd heard it from me. So I have a couple thoughts there. One is, particularly with the additional parking, I would want to know if there are either planned or the opportunity to plan swales in between where the parking is and the and the pond. Just anticipating, because I mean, I'm kind of having a hard time picturing some of this. So like, you know, how close is it? What's, you know, that's not that close to the pond. Again, if you come in, come in where we, most people come in, you know, if you're the right, there's the pond, if you're the left is paying turn right south and the highway is sort of going along, you don't go very far to the right. And it's all wooded.  They're just talking about putting about five or six parking spaces along that side of the road, just into what's now kind of a dirt ditch. And they would just, it's, it's flat. It's not, they're not taking out a swale. They just, and again, it's all on their land. I think we can certainly ask them about drainage or whatever, but, and I'm no expert, but it didn't look like it was going to have any, it's not close enough to the pond. I don't think to have any adverse effect. Okay. Parking. It's on the side of the, is it on the side of the road of the pond or is it opposite? No. Pondside. Pondside. If you were heading up there, not the place where you'd want to park if you were. You know, to me, I mean, it's interesting because that was the one that I think would be the most sensitive only to the extent that it allows, you know, some ways facilitates expansion of the pond access use, but on the other hand, it's entirely on their right of way. So there wasn't really, you know, it was so, I thought, I appreciated that they included us in the conversation and let us know it was going on so that we were ready. The other two over on the Darling Hill side would require use of our land, but again, it's away from the pond on the other side of the road from the pond. And I think many mobility people use that area for hiking and mountain biking. And in fact, I think we helped build some of the mountain bike trails up there, or at least mobility residents certainly did. So it seemed like, you know, facilitating that seemed like it made sense. Yeah, it's interesting because I am also feeling really grateful that they've included us in this process. And I wonder if, as a, I don't know if this would be seen as a kindness necessarily, but I mean, I could picture our, because we have some money with a conservation fund. And if there was, you know, the need or opportunity to build some swales there, you know, intentionally to slow down water runoff from these parking spaces, there, you know, I don't know how much money is in that conservation fund or if we zeroed that out. But, you know, if I think it is in our interest to, I'll be happy to reset the issue with them. Yeah. You know, because I mean, it's one thing for us to be like, okay, but you need to, thank you for telling us what you need to do this also. But if we're willing to put up the money to make that happen, you know, why not? So anyway, and plus like, I mean, I imagine swales are not super expensive. So, but anyway, that's, that's the only, and particularly if it's going to be on our land again. So that parking near the pond is not on our land. Whales probably would be. The parking, the parking for Darling Hill is on the other side of the road from the pond. And up, going up to where, if you know where those sort of goes up to Irish Hill and up to the cell tower and all that stuff. There's a kind of a cramped parking area there. It's steep hill. And it gets pretty crowded there. People park in the street and all that kind of thing. So they're just looking, they would actually be going further up the hill. There's a big flat area, just a little further up that's kind of a natural area. And they would just probably growled at and flatten it out. I don't think they're going to pave it or anything. It would be a place for people to park. So they could probably put swales there too. But at that point, you're pretty far from the pond. But that would be on our land. So it would require some sort of formal agreement with us to do that. And then the third piece was just the bridge maintenance and the temporarily working on our, you know, putting equipment on our property while they fix the bridge abovements and those kind of things. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it makes sense to me to at least loop in the conservation commission folks. I mean, they're, you know, I'm, again, speaking of the layperson really. So they might have. They mentioned that their conservation commission was pretty active in all of these. And I know, at least historically, the Berlin Conservation Commission and my Paleo Conservation Commission have been pretty close contact. But by all means, we can let folks know and I will be happy to make an offer that if they want to put swales in or those kind of things, we might be considering to assist. Yeah. Okay. At any rate, I did appreciate the heads up and I appreciated chance to kind of walk around and look at it. And I did tell him, it was just this afternoon. So I said, I would be happy. You know, I would definitely bring it up with you in public tonight so that people knew what was going on. Great. Thank you. Neither comments, thoughts on this? And the only other thing I had, I did get a text from Kelly early on in the meeting. It looks like we probably, the, that tax rate meeting would probably somewhere around July 7 or 8. A special meeting for that. And again, it'll be very short, very quick. And July 7 would normally have been our meeting, but this would be just a special. So other than that, like we were talking about before the officially started, this will be our last regular meeting that is virtual. That special meeting will be virtual and any other special meetings we have might be, but at our next regular meeting on July 21st, we'll be back in the council chamber. We are still working on options to allow for hybrid participation. Hopefully it'll go smoothly, but we will, we're committed to making it work over the time. You know, we have a long talk about it. So look, this is the future. So let's get it right.    They can, they can watch their kids. They can get dinner. They can, you know, not come out in bad weather. I think it's a lot more user friendly for some of our residents that for home getting to the meetings is a challenge, but we still have the in-person option too. So we'll, we'll get there. It's a pleasure. Yeah, well, well, it was great because then you offered us lots of pearls of wisdom on other issues. So that was always helpful. Great. Any other thoughts to your team? Okay. Well, it sounds like I'll, we'll be seeing each other for a special meeting on either the 7th or the 8th of July, but otherwise we'll see you in person sometime in July. Very exciting. 21st. Month off now, except for that special meeting. Yep. All right. Well, that is the end of our business this evening. So thanks everybody. And we finished before our scheduled break at 8.30, which is delightful. All right. Well, so with that, I will officially adjourn the meeting at 8.22. Thanks everybody. Have a good night, folks. Have a great day.