Hey everyone! Welcome back to the Nintendo Prime Podcast. We got a couple special guests this week. We have Game Over Jesse up in here. Hello. Thanks for having me. Zelda Master extraordinaire. You know what, you might know more about Zelda now than I do. Maybe. You know I go way back. But now that I've been covering like everything, I forget a lot of stuff. I would say everyone has their own little niche things that they're into with the Zelda series. So, you'll have your certain Zelda games and I'll have mine. This click will have hers. Everyone has their own. Like Zelda 2. Oh man, yeah. I just ranked every single Zelda game the other day and people saw me put Zelda 2, the adventure link at the number two spot and they almost died. I remember when it was number one. That'll do it, I know. And I think the cry when I had like Spirit Tracks ranked ahead of Ocarina of Time and they're like, oh, that's what I'm saying. I might upset some people. Yeah, I might upset some people. I mean, I have breath of the wild on the top so at least I got something that everyone universally thinks is a good game. Maybe. I shouldn't say that. There's some Zelda fans that aren't too happy about the lack of dungeons. So, we also have Miss Click Gaming over here. Hello, welcome in. Oh, thanks for having me. I don't know why I'm welcoming people. It's awkward. It's what you're used to, right? You're a Twitch streamer over there and got a decent sized YouTube channel going out for all your highlights and clips and all that jazz. Also, you're a regular over on the, what, the spawncast, right? You're over there a lot? Yeah. Yeah, every Saturday. Every Saturday over there. So, nice to have you on. I'm glad to have a couple of guests with me because guess what, guys? This is like the week of the 35th anniversary of Zelda. So, this podcast is going to be all about that. Nintendo kind of sort of already got the ball rolling after the Nintendo Direct with a game that seems to be sparking controversy for reasons that I'm sure we're going to have a lot of fun talking about. And so, yeah, let's just start with that, OK? So, Scarlet Sword AC, coming July 16th. Great. I'm glad we're getting it. It's like the only game, like the only 3Ds all the game, besides Breath of the Wild, because it doesn't need to be yet, that hasn't been like remade or re-released. Because we got Ocarina of Time 3D and Majora's Mask 3D and 3DS. Obviously, Twilight Princess HD, The Windbreaker HD, Wii U. So, now we finally have Scarlet Sword HD.  Like, are you happy we're getting it? I mean, I got my little, I don't have a Wii anymore, but I do have like a Wiimote Candy Tin, the whole pretend I'm playing right now. Nice. So, what do you, are you guys glad we're getting Scarlet Sword? You want to start? I am, yeah, I am ecstatic, but Ms. Click actually has a tragic story about how her headphones were damaged that she was so excited. Yeah, I'm pretty excited too. Scarlet Sword's actually my favorite Zelda. So, yeah, I actually, yeah, when we were watching it, you know, the direct, I kind of stood up and I just ripped my cable, absolutely in half, so I need new headphones now. But you know what, I'll take, I'll take half of my new headphones because there, there she is, all blood. There we go, Jesse, that's what we're talking about. I have a giant, I just set him up in my entryway, actually. I have my giant link on his loft wing, first of all. You're making me want to go grab my first four figure scurvo figurine. Oh yeah, no, first four, they're amazing. But yeah, I have my loft wing up in the entryway and I'm so excited, but maybe I'll put them on a coffee table, actually. Nah, that'd be dangerous. That thing's huge. I have cats, so they'd probably be like, oh, loft wing, whack. So needless to say, you were pretty excited. Oh yeah. Because I don't know if I saw your Skyward Sword reaction, I saw your reaction to Pyra and Mithra getting announced and you were going at it. So to imagine a reaction bigger than that, that you break your headphones is pretty special. I think it's two different types of like excitement that I have, like Pyra and Mithra. I have my coral with Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and blah, blah, blah. But I was excited because I know that they deserve to be in the game. That was my excitement for Pyra and Mithra because for a while I wanted Rex and Pyra. And so to see Pyra and Mithra themselves get the whole spotlight, I was excited because it was well justly deserved in my opinion. Skyward Sword, it was more of the reaction of like, this is personal. This feels like this direct was tailored at the end towards me feeling selfish, but yeah, it was two totally different types of reactions for sure. Well, for a long time, Skyward Sword was looked at as almost like the black sheep of the so-called 3D Zelda's because people didn't like the motion controls and it came out at like the end of the Wii era. So just a lot of people didn't even give it a chance. And it's weird because everyone's like excited now that they added button mapping in and like control to the right stick. And I just don't care. I'm motion controlling my way through this thing all over again. That was my favorite part of the game and I was like motion controls. Mm-hmm. Yep, no, I agree. The whole game is designed around motion control. And we think back to the interview, I think it was Game Informer. They had had an interview with Ayanuma-san quite a few years ago about the remake and he basically said it was near impossible. I think that was his way of putting I don't want to change the art form that I made the game for. But I think he did realize, you know, after all of the adamant fans online that said, I'm not gonna play it if you don't have it. I think he's like, well, we'll work and find a way to put the button controls on there. And obviously there are a lot of people who can't play with motion just surely because that's like they can't.  But I will say for the main experience, as long as you're patient with motion controls, I loved it. I had, I stood up the whole time playing it and the game is designed for it. It's just, it's so satisfying when you play it the way it's meant to be played. Yeah, it was fun. I remember the controversy way back when Kyle was a GameSpot's review of it or whatever, they said like the motion controls are dog crap. And then they show a video of the guy trying to do it. And he's like, literally, weemote waggling trying to attack. And it's like, but like, did you not watch the tutorials? You are literally playing the game incorrectly and then complaining it's not doing what you want it to do. Right. And yeah, that was a huge thing back then because when the game was first shown off by Nintendo, it also didn't work on stage. Oops. So it was kind of... That was mighty unfortunate just cause like, surely for the fact of a stage setup's not gonna be the same as a home setup. Plus you have all that Bluetooth interference. Same thing would happen with the Wii U era with the Splatoon community. They'd have tournaments and lands but they have all the Wii U's in the same room and trying to use those controllers, you had a lot of interference. So when you had like tournaments and lands for the Splatoon community, they had to be in separate rooms because all the controllers and the Bluetooth devices were interfering with each other. So they couldn't even host the tournament properly like the first couple of times. So they had to split it up. And it's just unfortunate that people look to that presentation and not think about the technological kind of interferences that they had to experience. And I felt bad for me and Motosan and everything cause he was so excited. And they're just like children on Christmas day. And you could tell they were trying to smile through it and they handled it pretty well. I think. That's worked in practice. Yeah, Skyward Sword was also a lot of people whenever they think of the Zelda series, obviously they think of Alnuma now but I think after Ocarina of Time, Alnuma started to take over the Zelda series but Skyward Sword was actually the game where Miyamoto returned as producer or something like that to have more involvement with the Zelda game for like one last hurrah or whatever. So it's kind of sad that it ended up getting the attention that it did for the wrong reasons, I suppose. And even after Skyward Sword released, I remember there was a bunch of interviews with Alnuma when they were talking about Zelda. Before it was even known as Zelda Wii U, they were just talking about the future of the Zelda series. And he was saying that they love the one-to-one motion control so much that they can't imagine making a Zelda game without it anymore. And it's kind of interesting to see how that's gone to where not only did they make Zelda games without it, but they also ended up remaking that exact game with optional controls. So it's interesting to see how their vision of what they want the Zelda series to become is influenced by the fans and the overall community. Yeah. I mean, it's not surprising because at the time Skyward Sword was like the most expensive game Nintendo had ever made. And then it only sold 3.5 million, which was a huge letdown for them on a 100 million plus system like that. Like it was just, it must've felt so bad to be them and just feel their vision be rejected by the very community that they thought they were creating this masterpiece for. Getting Miyamoto directly back involved again for this pivotal game, because even like motion controls not only was supposed to be the future of the franchise, the game itself is like the story that sets up everything. So it was such a pivotal game and so many, to think now, Breath of the Wild blowing up a 20 plus million sales and knowing that, hey, there's like 16 million Zelda fans now, like brand new, they have no idea why Zelda is the way it is because they didn't play this game. That's one exciting reason that's coming back. And they had to do the button controls to make it more accessible, plus with Switch Lite, you kind of, you know, you kind of shoehorn in where every game has to have traditional controls in some way and I'm sure it'll work fine. I didn't get as crazy as you misclick.  I discovered that wrist flicks will work just as well as big arm movements. Okay. So the reason, okay, so I started out doing like the exaggerated movements it would have you do. And then I got in a situation where I was fighting like seven Boca Blins or something. There's only like two times in the game that happens and one of them you're just hacking, slashing away. Don't wanna really spoil too much here from people that haven't played. The cool part. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, that's such a cool part.  And I'm like, okay, so this whole taking my time to swing at one at a time is the rest beat on me. This isn't working. What happens if I just flick, oh, look at this. I can flick my wrist and I can like rapid attack. Oh, okay, thank you. You did make it so you can do this. You just don't tell people about it. All right, cool, we're good. I think also it's like getting down the timing though for the game. I think a lot of people, and I always say Twilight Princess is superior on the Gamecube because the motion controls are so atrocious to me on the Wii. And people who played Twilight Princess on the Wii, I think expected Skyward Sword to be the same. So when they couldn't achieve the same goal, from like shaking just the Nunchuck randomly to do a spin attack or something, it was pretty jarring for them. But I feel like when you dedicate enough time to play the tutorial, to learn it, you kinda get the timing down. You can kind of, I guess, move down into the finer movements of things because you're not just trying to like fish hands McGee it. You know what I mean? Like you're not just like flopping everywhere. So I mean, yeah. Twilight Princess really set those expectations of like just where you're way through and then when you use the bow point and shoot. Right. And to be fair, there is a point and shoot item in there. It's just not the bow. I would still have like the frustrations with the bow to be interesting since they did it in Wii Sports Resort and that sold a lot of copies. This is true. For nonians, I guess, maybe. Okay, so I think we're all pretty glad that it's coming back. It's in HD, it looks better than ever. 60 FPS, that should be really nice. A nice touch. First 3D Zelda in 60 FPS. So that's cool. I'm excited.  Probably all gonna play it. But let's just say people are not happy about how much the game costs. You guys have any thoughts on that $60 price point and the way that people are really, in my opinion, maybe overreacting a little bit? And overreacting the internet? Really, when does the internet ever overreact? First off, let's preface this. I'm sure all of us here would agree a cheaper game, we'd totally take it. If we had to pay less for a game, by all means. If I had to pay less, I'd be down for that. But unfortunately, we are dealing with companies, game companies who make decisions that we might not always understand. When I try to understand why they'd still be charging 60, if they're not adding additional content, they haven't said if they are or not, if they're adding anything extra. But I think if I was in their shoes, like trying to rationalize, I guess. Again, the game only sold 3.5 million. And Breath of the Wild sold 20 plus million. I think they're realizing that the majority of people haven't played this game. And so I think that they were hoping that more people, because they realized they were playing this game for the first time, it'd be a new game to them, that they would be probably more accepting to pay the $60 price tag. However, people don't see it as a new game to them, as a game they've never played before, a game they never experienced the story or the music, which is the first full orchestrated Zelda game. Like before then, it was MIDI tracks and pre-recorded clips. This is the first time a full-out orchestra was brought out, and that's what prompted the symphony of goddesses tour. And I think a lot of people, they kind of just minimize it and say, because it came out so long ago, because it is a port, because there's no new content announced, it's not worth the 60. And to me, I can understand that. I sympathize with it, but also at the same time, the game, just because it's older, it doesn't make it any less worth the 60, in my opinion. But again, I wouldn't also disagree if they wanted to lower the price, because that's less money you have to spend. Well, that's always the debate, too, about the $60 price point and the value of games. The wider video game industry has created this expectation that games are only worth 60 at launch, and they're never worth that much money again. And that is the way the rest of the industry treats it. When they re-release games, they don't re-release them at the same price. Typically, there are some examples where they did. But Nintendo, the problem we have is like the last port we got that didn't really have new content, and by the way, we don't know, I said there's an amiibo functionality in this game, and that was not in the original, so we don't really know what else there could be hiding right now. There's a long time between now and July. But assuming there is no new content, the reason this feels weird is because the last port we got was Super Mario 3D World, and they added an entire Bowser's Fury mode. So they added like six hours of new content makes people feel like, okay, that kinda can justify charging 60 again. But then before that, the last HD port we got was 3D All-Stars, which included three games for the same price. And people, I'll try to rationalize, if Mario Galaxy wasn't worth 60 on its own from the Wii era of much more popular game, then why is Skyward Sword, who also has reworked controls because they had to rework the motion controls from Galaxy as well, why people feel kinda slighted by Nintendo or they're either overvaluing Zelda or undervaluing Galaxy or something like that? And so Nintendo themselves kinda put themselves in this position when they released that three pack, and then they said, hey, look, we're not doing that for Zelda as far as we're aware, of course, we don't know yet. So Nintendo kinda helped create some of that controversy themselves because like 3D All-Stars wasn't that long ago. Before that, it was always $60 ports.  So like, they've been worse.  Right, back then. Right, or whatever. Yeah, I think it's really hard to again rationalize because you're trying to understand people who are sitting in a room and just make decisions. And we're obviously not there. And this isn't me defending them. This is me like just thinking out loud of why I try to rationalize from the sounds of it is they really just love Skyward Sword that much. Like it means that much to them. And I mean, granted, like maybe that's adding personal feelings into business. And maybe that is more of a detriment. Maybe, I think it would serve everybody better if Nintendo had lowered the price, they'd sell more copies. People wouldn't have as much controversy. I don't know at what point people would all be pleased. I think people are gonna be unhappy regardless, but definitely I do agree, having the trilogy out at 60, you're basically getting three games for that price. People were still upset about it. They were also upset about the timed release and everything. We still don't know if Zelda's is gonna be a timed release if they do bring out more games, which I feel like they still are. I think honestly, like Nintendo is just like, we find this important, so we're gonna charge this much for it. And I think Nintendo's made a lot of business practices that are completely out there. So I'm not fully surprised by it. Actually, the week before on the Sponcast, we had talked about it, OJ and I were specifically saying Skyward Sword's gonna be by itself, it's gonna be $60. And there's gonna be something else for us at the later on in the year. And that's exactly what happened and people were still upset. So for us, I think it's just like we, it's learning to identify that Nintendo just does things that don't always make as much sense as the rest of the industry. And sometimes that's a good thing. And then obviously sometimes that's a very bad thing. Well, I think when you look at the Skyward Sword in particular, because I did a video on this, Nintendo's a business. So the first thing to think about is what can we get away with pricing? So with 3D All-Stars, they made it a limited release. People got pissed about it, right? They did a whole fear of missing out. You gotta buy it now before March 31st next year. And if you don't, you won't even have it digitally. We're just taking it away from you, which they'll probably end up repackaging on an individual basis knowing Nintendo and selling them at 30, 40 bucks a pop. I have no idea. That just feels like a very Nintendo thing to do. But even if they don't, or even if they bring it back, like they make you wait a year and they're like, oh, did you miss it the first time? Like with the NES Classic, let's bring it back again. Which is also a very Nintendo thing to do. I think that they look at it as just a purely business perspective. It's Zelda. Zelda's more popular now than it's ever been in the history of the franchise. Not even close. Most people haven't played this game. It's gonna be a new game for most people. We're gonna sell at least eight million copies of it at 60 bucks a pop. Yes. And from a business perspective, well, to make that much money at $40 a pop, they'd have to sell 12 million. So at $30 a pop, they'd have to sell 16 million copies. They probably don't think even at $30 a pop, it's selling 16 million copies. They need to balance out how much money they can make to maximize their profits, because Nintendo is a business. They first and foremost, don't care about you, the consumer, they care about making money. Now, they try to make money by making good products. At least what they feel is good products. Sometimes they're always, not all they are cracked up to be, but Skyward Sword to me was all that was cracked up to be back in the day, let alone today and fixing the issue that people have with it when they didn't like the motion controls. So I think it's all about perceived value.  Versus how many people are gonna spend 60 bucks and feel like they got ripped off? Of course. And you don't have to buy a game. I always put this out. You never have to buy something. You don't like the price, don't pay it. Right. Or buying used, that's a very valid reason still to this day too. I buy a lot of things used because I don't want to pay full retail price for it. And if sales drop off a cliff, it's gonna end up in discount bins in a year anyways. Yeah, for sure. Not Nintendo, obviously first party sales, very rare, but. It will not be a Nintendo select before the end of the generation. Sorry. I know people might be hoping for a $20 version, but I'm just, I, Nintendo, no. They're still selling Breath of the Wild at MSRP at 60 bucks four years later. With no sign, they're slowing down that until May, maybe the, I mean, will they even lower it when Breath of the Wild II comes out? They might just say, nope. Oh, you want Breath of the Wild II? Go buy the first game, so you know what's happening in the second game. Oh, and that goes to be 60 more in Age of Calamity, so then you really know everything. No, no, no, they put a code at the end of, they rework and release a patch to the end of Breath of the Wild. So you have to play Breath of the Wild first to get into Breath of the Wild II. That would be horrible.  For sure. A little extra story DLC connecting it. Yeah. By the way, five dollars. Oh, God. I don't think they're going to go that far. No. Keeping Breath of the Wild at 60. I mean, the thing is, Breath of the Wild, and this is Nintendo's logic most of the time, is, well, our titles keep landing in the top 20 every month worldwide. Why are we going to lower our price and lose money? There is a reason why they have how much money in the bank. I think everyone wishes, every company wishes they didn't have to lower their game prices and keep their games in the top 20 just always. Well, that's the pattern that Nintendo's typically always had. You always see third parties and even PlayStation and Xbox. Over a year or two after the game releases, you'll slowly see the $60 price tag go to like 50, 40, 30, and get lower and lower. Sometimes not so slow. But with Nintendo. Yeah. Well, but with Nintendo, it's like you can go and until it's released as a Nintendo select, it's still at that same price that it launched at. And people forget by the time they make a game on Nintendo select, if there even is a Nintendo select line on Switch, which I don't know if there will be, because literally every game they release is breaking records. So they obviously clearly don't see a reason, just keep releasing more games. I have hope for ARMS. Yeah. I'm wondering if that might be one of the first ones whenever they announce ARMS too and be like, hey, now you can get ARMS for 20 bucks. But anyways, I think that Nintendo doesn't do that select line until it's to a point the game is just not selling at all. Like I think back, they rapid-fired selects back on Wii U, but nothing was really selling. So they really were just trying to get all the sales they could. Like people bring up, well, Skyward Sword, HD costs more than Twilight Princess and the Windmaker HD, which had more work put into them. OK, but how many Wii U sold? Yeah, they're just really trying to get. I mean, as I said, they sold on Tropical Freeze at 40 bucks on Wii U because they just wanted the game to sell. They were just trying to get a loan. Guys, for people who don't remember, people were just saying Nintendo shouldn't make consoles anymore. They should just make games, just ship the games out to other consoles. That was our whole controversy in itself. Yeah. Nintendo doesn't know how to make systems anymore. They don't know what they're doing. They need to go get on PlayStation and Xbox. And it's like, but look what they did with Switch. That's the exact reason when you need Nintendo because the other companies are iterative. Nintendo is like, hey, look, we're going to find a hole in the marketplace and then fill it. Sure. Yeah. Or they create a whole new niche you didn't even know you wanted. Yeah. Well, it's like, oh, their handheld gaming is always popular. So, you know what happens if we take our handheld and meld it with console and just see what happens? Oh, hey, look, that's popular. Who knew? Oh, no. Oh, well, Sony tried it with the Vita, not really because they still had the PlayStation 3. They didn't fully commit to Vita as a portable home console. No one has, really, until Nintendo decided to do it. There's other products that you guys could talk about, like the GPD Win and all that really niche product, but really expensive, by the way. I think the GPD Win 3, the cheapest version is $800. Like Alienware, the Grand above. That's crazy. Yeah, the Alienware thing that's like, oh, yeah. Look at the Switch Killer. I'm like, dude, if that ever releases, it's $2,000. Like a handheld laptop, dude, it's giant. I mean, it's cool. I'd like to have one because I love tech. Yeah, it's like an hour battery life, though. I know you're not. You're playing that by a note later at all times. So, again, Jesse, you got any thoughts on the pricing?  Well, I so they've announced that well, they didn't even really announce it. They just kind of put it on their website that it will have amiibo support of some kind. And I am of the belief that it's not necessarily Nintendo making Skyward Sword. It's Tantalus who made Twilight Princess HD. That was something that I was talking about for a long time. And if Nintendo lets Tantalus do similar things to Skyward Sword, as they let them do to Twilight Princess HD, sort of like how when Nintendo let Grezzo make Ocarina of Time 3D and then do even more changes and have even more freedom with Majora's Mask 3D to where it wasn't just fixing this dungeon or whatever they added in like new ponds, like two completely new fishing ponds when the game didn't even have one to begin with. And they changed some of the side quests and stuff. So if Tantalus gets the same type of freedom, I would really love to see what kind of stuff could potentially be shown off as a way for Nintendo to kind of persuade those people that don't feel that it's worth $60 now to be worth $60 after showing off stuff like like if it releases I think Twilight Princess HD released the normal version was $50 and then you could buy a version that came with the Wolf Link amiibo for 60. So even if Skyward Sword HD was 60, but it came with like a collector's edition or something that had an amiibo with it for 70, I think that would be just like a little bit more of a way to help persuade people, especially if it unlocked a new dungeon or something like that in the game as well. So I think Nintendo is holding out for the next direct or an official trailer to go over all of the stuff that they've changed and added to Skyward Sword because they've always changed a bunch of stuff in the Zelda games like Wind Waker shortened the Triforce Quest, Twilight Princess shortened the Tears of Light stuff. I don't know what be changed story wise or gameplay wise aside from the motion control on Skyward Sword. That was seen. Remember the Dowsing thing? Some people got real bad. That's one thing they could maybe tighten up. I think the quality of life changes, I would like to think, obviously, like we think one of the most amazing things that they did with the Ocarina of Time remake was the iron boots. You no longer had to pause the menu anymore. It just became a toggle item, you know, just on the on the hotkey. I think things like every time you pick up a new like when you started a fresh play of your same account on Skyward Sword, you know, you pick up a blue rupee every time you start the game again. It's going to tell you about that blue rupee every time you pick it up or you pick up an amber and it's like we don't need to hear about it every single time we start over, maybe making some of fives. I don't know if they'll make some of fives dialogue optional. I think they want you to kind of like be annoyed with her computer side or her character development. Maybe we need to hear about the value of a rupee every time I pick it up. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, yeah, I don't like things. I would like to think that they've seen enough people talking about it online to where, you know, it's kind of been enough feedback to where they could just change that. But again, you know, it's hard to know with Nintendo sometimes. Yeah. And another thing that I would like to see is if so, and when you're flying on the loft wing, they have those little portal things or whatever that you fly through the circle, floating rock structure. Yeah.  And that's similar to Wind Waker HD. They felt that it took too long to sell from one place to another. So they gave you that extra sale. So if they made flying from one place to another on a loft wing faster, like they did in the other games or even if something like how you could just press a button and go from Wolf Link to Hylian Link in Twilight Princess. If they had something towards just a press of a button to go up into the sky, that way you don't have to search for whatever specific statue or a deck to jump off of. If you could just press the button and then it would send you. Daniel and I were talking about it would be really cool if they had something like instead of having to load in skyloft when you're flying through it, if all of the sky was because of the extra processing power of the switch, if it was all just rendered together instead of like each area being individual. Oh, that'd be cool. Yeah, that would be nice. That would that would be really nice. I mean, there's a lot of things they could do. How much they're going to, I don't know. Right. I so all right, let's move on. I can literally we could make this just the Skyward Sword podcast, I swear. I love that game so much. It's in my top five. So oh, I do want to ask Eric, you're OK. So Eric, you are kind of a raw gaming consumer in general. These days, you're more old school in terms of you used to play games and Breath of the Wilds, like the first major Zelda game you really dove into deeply. Like any you have from the Triforce Heroes walkthrough. I did. I did help in the Triforce Heroes walkthrough. You're right. Yeah. Anyway, and he's seen me play more Zelda than. Yeah. And I've been like massively binge watching Game Grumps at work and of course, just watching them play through it just because it's something nice to have on in the background and entertainment. Yeah, for sure. So are you going to spend 60 bucks on Skyward Sword HD? Yeah, I think you're the kind of consumer they're sort of targeting. Kind of got into Zelda with Breath of the Wild. Haven't really played a lot of the series. Here's a game we think is vitally important. Will you buy it? I mean, not day one. I'll probably end up watching you play it a little bit. Just to be completely honest. It's not not not because what you mean is I'm just going to borrow your copy of it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I just want to see how it how it looks, how it feels, things like that. I'm not against buying it. It I just want to see you motion control. I want to see you. I want to get you on a live stream and have you stand up and just try not to hit me as you're trying to fight the Bocoblin. All right. Or Kira Heem. Oh, God, I can't imagine. Oh, God, yeah. Oh, Lord.  Yeah, no, one of the best. I can't believe you with this. I haven't even brought him up. He's so awesome. Well, we we need me really to touch on the story necessarily. Like I feel like I was trying to avoid the story a little bit. Yeah, but I feel like there's like a difference of opinion. You know, people who play mainly for the gameplay aspect of just like the game itself versus like the story and what it attributes to the lore. I think there'll be two different types of people who are attracted to it. Whereas if you don't really care about the lore, the game might not meet as much to you versus to me. Like, I love lore. Like, I'm like diving like Jesse obviously loves lore, you know. So it's like it attracts us in a different way than it will some other people. Like some people just play Skyward Breath of the Wild. Pardon me. They play Breath of the Wild. That's like that that's she's fighting. He's fighting this big thing. Like OK, but they don't understand. Like, you know, there's just like there's so much there's gone at it. Yeah, for sure. Every time people like there's no story in Breath of the Wild. Oh, it's there. You need to discover it. And that's if you haven't played the whole series, you probably aren't really discovery. I think it's so many of them are new Zelda gamers. Like, well, they're not really going to understand what they're even seeing right in front of them. Like when you read those tablets about the lore of the Azora out in that area, it's like how I wonder like how many new fans really understand what they're reading right now and short grass. What's in some of the iris and yeah, I think Nintendo did a really good job of letting everyone know during the Skyward Sword reveal how a lot of the features that people liked from Breath of the Wild originated in Skyward Sword. So I think that was a good way to incentivize people who may not know anything about the story, but just care about gameplay to maybe go and check it out. Since they can be like, OK, well, the stamina meter did start here. It had a big priority on collecting and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. If you're one of those Zelda gamers, those new fans out there that just got into the series of Breath of the Wild and one of your complaints was there wasn't enough story for you, which I can understand from a certain perspective, since you have to discover the story in this game, play Skyward Sword. It is one of the most in depth stories that is so in your face throughout the whole game that I think has ever existed in a Zelda game. Beautiful. And it's one of the best stories I think Nintendo's had in really any of their games. I agree. People think the the memory of Link in Breath of the Wild, where it's like Zelda crying with Link and it's all rainy and stormy and they've been chased and everything is emotional. But there's like a dozen different moments like that. Oh, my gosh, it is so emotional in Skyward Sword. And yeah, there's. You know, I'll just say this. There's a moment that happens in Breath of the Wild. I might even worry about spoilers anymore for that, where the sword kind of talks in a cut scene. Yes. For those who don't know, that's that's a direct reference to Skyward Sword. I lost it when the reference. And so there's a possibility that because that happened, it could come back in Breath of the Wild to all the more reason you want to play Skyward Sword, if you really care about understanding what's what might be happening with that master sword in the next game. Like that, that little reference, like, wait a second, I thought she was never coming back. OK, well, all right, what is happening? Yeah, I don't want to spoil too much. Like, there's a lot of things that could come back around from Skyward Sword. Yeah. Oh, it's going to be I can't wait. So that being said, obviously, this is the 35th anniversary happened on the 21st. So this past weekend obviously went by without Nintendo saying anything, which is pretty powerful. The course, whenever they have plans for something, they don't acknowledge it on social media. The anniversaries they always seem to acknowledge on social media are the ones they don't do anything for. Like they've acknowledged Metroids 25th in the past and the 30th and did nothing for those. So when they don't talk about it, it's because they have a lot to say. It's just not the time or the place. So I think we all can probably agree they're going to do something. It's not just Skyward Sword HD and then talking about a Breath of the Wild trailer later this year, which they kind of hinted they were going to do. They're going to obviously have something. Oh, for sure. I mean, Zelda is more popular than it's ever been. If there's ever, I mean, guys, they've done Symphony of the Goddess tours like twice. They've celebrated every five years since the 20th anniversary. Really seen multiples of all the games. Grezzo themselves working on like two games per anniversary, practically. So. This gets into what do we think is actually going to happen for the 35th? There's some rumors floating out there of some speculation. Game Over Jesse at the center of some of those rumors. But let's start with Game Over Jesse. What do you think is actually going to happen for the 35th anniversary besides the obvious Skyward Sword HD and potential dropping a Breath of the Wild 2 at some point? OK, so I let's see. So we have Skyward Sword HD, Age of Calamity DLC and. At least information that we can forward to Breath of the Wild 2. Yeah, and then we're going to hear about it. That that's all they promised. So. Aside from that, that takes care of like Koei Tecmo, Nintendo, Tantalus. And yeah, so that leaves like Grezzo, who, as you mentioned, for the 25th anniversary, they, well, since they began, they have been working nonstop on at least one Zelda game. Sometimes they even have two Zelda games in development. And during the 25th anniversary and leading up to the 30th anniversary, they actually released two Zelda games and then immediately began production on a third Zelda game. And if they follow that pattern, then that gives at least two games to expect from them since they already worked on Ocarina of Time 3D and Majora's Mask 3D. And they are also aside from Zelda games, they are known to really quickly be able to port their 3DS titles to the Switch or even the PlayStation 4. And since they already have all the assets and stuff and their experience with Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, I think those games could easily come to Switch at a later date. What's also notable is Grezzo is the company who ported 3DS Game Metopia over. So they've already HDed a 3DS game. Yes, notable. So there was a bunch of people that had been wondering since they worked on Metopia, does that mean that they couldn't have been working on any Zelda ports or remakes? And no, because they usually have two or three different games in development at the same time. And Metopia is a really, really small game. And since they made the original and all they had to do is port this, then that gives plenty of time for them to have been working on something already. And a lot of people are hoping for what is it? The Oracle remakes. The big ones. Yeah. But I think Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask is the the more obvious thing to come because even if they did reuse the Lynx Awakening Engine, they would still have to rebuild or create all of the dungeons, the story, the boss fights and everything for the both Oracle games. Whereas with Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, they already have everything basically ready. They just need to put it on Switch. And yeah, people realize is a lot of the 3DS games almost all the assets in those games are created in HD and then down sampled for the 3DS screen to make the image file smaller. Like when art designers go out there and they're making like models, they're not making models in 480p. Like right that the models are way more detailed. Like we've seen on emulators, these games run in HD and like there's more detail in those models than you can see on the 3DS screen. And that's because those models weren't made at that resolution. So while some people obviously would love to see like a real remake of Ocarina of Time, because we've seen some of those Unreal Engine 4 recreations by fans. And some people, to be fair, I want to be clear, some people don't actually like the 3DS remakes, especially Majora's Mask. They made some fundamental changes in that that really. I would say if they brought them over specifically the boss fights, they'd have to, I would say, revert to the older mechanics, you know, of like having the boss fights not have like the giant eyeball on them to make it easier for the players. You know, like revert certain things, but keep the overall. And like the Zora swimming in Majora's Mask, I don't know what they were thinking in that 3D motion. That's legitimately worse. I don't know what they were thinking. And you mentioned earlier, well actually we kind of all touched on it, just the business decisions from Nintendo and charging the 60 dollar price. Since they are known for what would likely be the better business decision and not decision for the fans, I think that's also a big reason as to why we would expect Ocarina of Time, because they already have all the assets and they're experienced with the game and porting 3DS games to Switch really quickly. And it's a big game too. Even if it's just Ocarina of Time by itself, that alone being ported to the Switch would take less than half the time. It would take to make one of the Oracle games because they would actually have to create and build everything for one of the Oracle ports or one of the Oracle remakes. And then after they finish it, Ocarina of Time by itself, I think this is just my opinion, but I think for 60 dollars, Ocarina of Time HD alone would sell more than twice as many copies as a bundle for both Oracle games and HD at 60 dollars. Yeah, yeah. So the business decision is why wouldn't they create the game that they can finish really quickly with a small team and make two to four times as much money as the Oracle games? So and then you have to fund the Oracle games since it would be a longer development time. So let's presume, OK, that they're bringing at least Ocarina of Time 3D over, if not that and Majority's Mask. How does the release late work with the basically there's been two major journalists essentially come out and say, look, the Wind Waker HD and Twilight Princess HD are coming later this year, they're just coming.  They're coming. OK. So you get Skyward Sword HD. You get those games, which they could bundle together. But as we see with Skyward Sword HD, that would just devalue Skyward Sword HD even that much more, make more controversy. So probably going to end up releasing them on their own. And then you have Ocarina of Time. Like you're starting to get the point where that's like four or five, you know, new, you know, re-releasing of old games. Whereas, yes, you could argue because there was four games for the Mario anniversary because of the three pack with three all stars in the 3D world. Well, technically, Paper Mario was it was planned to be part of the anniversary, but it leaked so they had announced early and they also I didn't know that the weird Game and Watch thing. And then the Mario 35 and the the crazy, bizarre, but amazing Mario Kart. Home live, yeah, home live. Yeah, that thing. So like they had a lot of new compared to and yeah. And similarly with Zelda, I think that it's not just going to be this year that we could see like if those rumors are true. And Wind Waker and Twilight Princess does really like if the big Zelda summer game is Skyward Sword HD and then Wind Waker and Twilight Princess come out towards the end of the year, just as 3D World and Bowser's Fury came out the year after the announcement. I think the 35th anniversary for Zelda could also easily carry over into the next year. Oh, for sure. I would be surprised if we saw Breath of the Wild by the end of this year. Breath of the Wild, too. I think there were the dreamers out there that got delayed to early 2022, which I don't think is the worst thing in the world, depending on how they have games already lined up. Anyways, it potentially look like it gets pushed into early 2022. But I mean, if you end your celebrate, like, let's just say they're planning to run it through March 31st of next year, like they did with Mario. OK, well, literally, I mean, if you really want to be special, you can launch it on March 3rd and it'd be the 5th anniversary of Breath of the Wild. Exactly. That's exactly what I was hoping for. If they wanted to aim for a date that had significance, that would also make sense for their fiscal year. Throw it on the anniversary of the first breath of the wild. Yeah, that's kind of a window that was March and that would be an awesome end of the fiscal year for them. Right. Yeah, people are feeling nostalgic. No, I agree. I think also, though, the pull of obviously like a Zelda Collectors Edition again, you know, the last one we saw really was back on the GameCube. And that today is so like one of my most treasured items, because it was limited in the fact of when you look back, you can only get it for a certain amount of time and in a certain in a certain manner. You know, there are very few ways that you could get it.  And if you can find that, like, snag it up. I think that it's I don't know what all they throw on a collection. I would like to think that they do a collection towards the end of the year. And that would probably be more towards the holiday experience. But I mean, it's it's a good year to be a returning Zelda fan. It's a good year to be a new Zelda fan. And it's a good year for Nintendo for sure, in the sense that they know that there are a lot of new eyes and new appetites for people to experience more of this this series, but also looking forward to and kind of being driven by that height for Breath of the Wild, too, to where you have all this space in between that's like, oh, more Zelda stuff. You know, this isn't what I really was waiting for, which was Breath of the Wild, too. But now I'm really excited. So I'm going to buy it anyway. And believe it or not, that's a huge marketing strategy that many brands will use. And I think a lot of people don't look at it from that element. But if you go to school, obviously, for marketing and stuff like that, you tend to wet the appetite and then keep the psyche on it. And then you feed things in between and it works very, very well. So I mean, it's it's it's exciting. But yeah, as far as what they do specifically, if they do bring the three days over, even if they brought, I know some of the spawncast guys were talking about it last week, they'd love just having like the handhelds on Nintendo Switch online, you know, bringing some of those over. There are tons of different things they can do. Again, it just comes down to what will they actually put the effort into doing just yet? I also think it comes down to release late. So certainly the side Zelda, like Nintendo has almost a major game now every month heading up to Skyward Sword in July, whether it's from them or from a third party, like Monster Hunter Rise next month. Preview default two, I guess you would say is the big one this month, although Mario 3D World Plus Bowser's Fury was really the big one for Nintendo anyway. So I think comes out to release late as well, because you can't ignore that we're technically still in a little bit of a pandemic right now. I know hopefully by the end of this year, it's we're finally moving on, but we'll see. So there is always a thought process that a lot of new games from Nintendo might be like not even ready to go this year, which is why Breath of the Wild 2 delay. Why the only like new new game we got now besides another Mario Sports game was between three, which they said isn't coming till next year. So it makes me wonder if they might be really, really relying on like the 35th anniversary of Zelda, 25th anniversary of Pokemon. Maybe. I mean, I the Nintendo doesn't really celebrate Metroid the way that it should be celebrated. Oh, I agree. Prime trilogy HD or something like that's or 2D. I don't just get something out the door for Metro. Like pretended actually exists for at least a single release. I feel like they don't want to make the same mistake they made with Bayonetta, you know, Bayonetta 3 was teased.  And then we have anything about Bayonetta 3. So I think development is going well. What are you talking about? Yeah, I think I think when Prime 4 is, you know, closer to release, that's when we'll see Metroid Prime. And if we don't hear news about four, we'll see the Prime trilogy and then we'll know four is coming along swimmingly. But yeah, I don't I don't know. I think if it wasn't like a huge deal, so they wouldn't still have, you know, before every live direct, if you watch it live, they do have that that COVID-19 disclaimer. And I think they wouldn't put such a focus on that still. If it was, if it hadn't affected their games, you know, and I think that's why, you know, I still feel bad that Ionumasan has to apologize. You know, like, sorry, no breath of wild news right now. You're seeing me and I know what you want. I just can't give it to you yet. Yeah, you know, and I knew as soon as he stood up there, it wasn't going to be Breath of the Wild. But I know for many people. Oh, I think when they show it, they're just going to show it. And then he'll be on screen. I don't think he's going to like introduce it. You know, like, I know some people will be like, oh, well, back in 2014, yeah, when he snapped in Breath of the Wild, if you're on screen, it was a shocker moment. We already know this game exists. But the Breath of the Wild game trailer, yeah, at least not that in. Yeah, like we've already seen, you know, it's isn't like that's why that princess reveal that no one expected back in 2006. This isn't the what didn't even know Breath of the Wild existed when he snapped it on screen. Like we know about this game. We've already seen a trailer. We don't need a preamble before you show it off. Yes, I agree. So I think it's going to be shown and then then he'll appear on screen and talk about, you know, why we haven't shown it so far.  And I think the reason we didn't see it here isn't because I actually personally think that they probably are ready to show it again because they showed a trailer back in 2019 and I know we have the pandemic in between. But I kind of feel like Breath of the Wild 2 isn't in the same sort of development how other games might be that are new because they already have the engine. They already have the visuals. Yeah, they still have to make new stuff. But for the most part, I mean, and they said they were working on this game since 2017. It's not like they started in 2019. So I feel like they have something to show. Another big thing, sorry. I was going to say another big thing is that they stated that the DLC for Breath of the Wild began as concepts and ideas. They already had four Breath of the Wild that just didn't make it into the final game finishing up. And then, yeah. And then Breath of the Wild 2 began the exact same way as DLC, but they had too many ideas and too many concepts to put into DLC. So they decided to build the new game around it. So all of at least most of the ideas and planning and stuff seems like it would have already been done since it all began as concepts for the original. Or DLC for the original. Anyways, they started at the end of 2016 or early. Like there's always that infamous image that people show of Ganondorf standing on top of the floating island. And then the very first trailer we see of Breath of the Wild 2 is Hyrule Castle kind of floating up into the air. And then there's the concept art of Link's hand doing the weird robot thing. And then in the trailer, it's Link's hand doing a weird spirit thing. So it's kind of swapped there. You know what I love about that trailer? Nintendo was very careful. So you talk about how the castle is about to fly up in the air or whatever. We don't technically know if it's going to. It could also be sinking. They don't really, I think we presume because we know that Skyloft and stuff is up there somewhere that, like, that's where it's going. But also, like, they were very careful to stop it just before you could. 100% for sure, which direction it was heading. It's kind of it's kind of interesting. Nintendo is very they do that, by the way. They want you to speculate. That's yeah, they know all the fans are going to dissect every single frame. Right. Yeah, I feel like it's a common trend where trailers nowadays and media give too much away and you're like, I feel like I just watch the movie or I just like watch the premise of the show already. Like, do I really want to watch it now? And I feel like with Zelda, they did a really good job of teasing things. That's the way I felt was, you know, by Chronicles 2. I felt like they were just showing too much of that game before it came out. You feel like it was overteased. Yeah, it was overteased. Yeah, like, I remember Eric and I reacting to it back like way back when they were showing like, OK, we've seen and like one of the directs or it was the E3 thing. I can't remember. So we've seen 15 minutes of it and we're going another 10 minutes further. What are you doing? I don't need to know anymore about this game. And it's not because I want to see what's next. It's because this is like too much about one game. Like, I don't need to like. Yeah, if I'm a Zelda guy, I'm not going to complain about 25 minutes of Zelda. But when they do that, it's because it's a demo that like, they're not even talking about a demo. You're just more story. And here's more story. And here's more story. It's like, well, can we play the game and find some stuff out that we need to know everything about? To a certain extent, though, too, it may not have been that it was overshared. It was just too much at once. Understandable.  And here's more. Here's more. Here you haven't had time to adjust it. But here's more. Here's all these new systems. And then here's this and here's that. And it's like, OK, OK. Can I like, slow down for a moment here? I bought the game. I'm happy in general. It was, you know, the Chronicles 2. Few things I'm not a fan of. But whatever happens with every game. But it's like. They don't really do that with Zelda as much, I feel like. Maybe I'm just biased because I like Zelda so much. So it's hard for me to get overloaded. But also, I think about how they handled Breath of the Wild. Like, OK, they had the T's in 2014, which just showed the overworld for a moment.  And then they had the first gameplay reveal as off-camera weird thing at the game awards. And then we didn't see it again at all until E3 2016 when we just saw the opening area of the game. And yeah, they talked a hell of a long time about that and about, oh, it's open. Oh, you can go to the end right away after you're off this place if you want. But that was it. Like, you just here's the beginning of the game. That's great. But guess what? You have no idea what the hell happened once you get off this place. So. Yep. And then the trailer of what was it? January 2017 with more story heavy and all the voice acting reveal.  The music. Oh, boy. Yeah. Yeah, they run like they really spread out instead of giving you too much. You're like, look, here's the beginning of the game. But like, technically, we're not showing you everything from the beginning of the game. We're not showing you the voice acting. You're just. Well, that's the genius of Breath of the Wild is that you can let people play for an hour, two hours, three hours. That whole entire beginning area. And they'll still not really know any of the story or what's going on other than, oh, I can cook and climb trees. Especially since the demo at 2016 didn't let you see the end.  So you didn't know that you were actually like talking to the king. The king. You weren't sure. You're like, is this just like the old man from the first of the game? Like, oh, god. Even though he looks like King Rhone from like, when away. Is he? I don't know. I'm not really sure. Oh, and of course, you're not going to tell us, even if we get that far in the demo in the limited time. Yeah. But going back to Breath of the Wild 2 and Breath of the Wild's delayed development and everything, the main reasons they stated that Breath of the Wild was delayed so many times was because they were having issues perfecting the physics engine in the game, which they made the joke that in the game, like you can knock down a tree or something and you can hit it and it'll like roll or you can move it and it'll roll or you can hit it and it'll turn into like the sticks of wood and stuff where you can hit a rock and make it shoot through the air. But they would have issues where they would fix one thing and get it working perfect. But then that would cause like a giant boulder to where the wind could barely blow and then it would send the boulder flying halfway across the map. So they would have a lot of issues trying to fix and tweak that and then have it still work with the puzzles that they had. And then obviously, the other thing was, although they had interviews where they stated developing it for Switch didn't cause any delays, they also had interviews stating that it did. And obviously, it was released alongside the Switch. And if it wasn't rushed to release alongside the Switch, then you would have to assume that it was done and just being meticulously like unchecked and stuff. At the original intended release at the end of 2015. No, no, no. I don't think that at all. I think like maybe it would have. So one of the interviews that I think it was when Grezzo got or no, the team from Monoliths up the game, they brought him in to help port the game, the Switch. There was some sort of interview where they mentioned that, hey, we've been working on the Switch port since the beginning of 2016. And if they were working on porting it at that time, to me it kind of suggests what the game must be almost done if you're just focusing on porting at that point and then getting a demo ready for E3. Now, granted, that was for the Wii U. But it makes me wonder like, the thing is, I don't know if we ever really get the truth on everything because especially when it comes to the game delays, they don't want you to think there's trouble in development. They don't want you to think anything negative about a game when it's delayed. Scares and dusters too. But it's kind of like in the Twilight Princess. We heard that there was all these issues with Twilight Princess and why it got delayed. And then it turns out it was a launch game for Wii. They decided to make it a launch game for Wii. And the same thing basically happened with this game where I wonder if it really was actually on target and they just said, have you not seen that nothing is selling on Wii U? We can't take the game we spent the most money on and Skyward Sword this again. We need to do something on a new platform and hope it helps launch that new platform the way Twilight Princess did with Wii. And even after how much that last year was like, hey, you know what, it doesn't matter that the game is ready because we are not releasing this on Wii U without it going to switch at the same time. Yeah. And we'll never know. We'll never know. If we relate that whole Breath of the Wild thing to Breath of the Wild 2's development, I think it'll be entering its fourth or fifth year of development. If it goes in the 2022, yeah, it'll be like almost five years. Yeah. And the original. We think about older consoles. Yeah. The original took five and a half years to release. And that's with trouble development, developing it on two consoles. They said that they completely changed the story around because they released that first quick trailer of The Guardian Chasing Link on Epona. And the overwhelmingly positive fan reaction to The Guardian and the interest the fans had in The Guardian made them take The Guardian from just a typical normal enemy and have the story more heavily revolve around it. And I think that's why we've never seen the Sheikah slate appear until Twilight Princess HD was announced. I think it was in that same trailer because you get to see Link on Epona for like two or three seconds. In December of that same year in the off-screen gameplay. Because they used it. They lifted up and they marked the map. They marked the tower in the background and ran to it. It was a Wii U-specific feature. The Sheikah slate was supposed to be the Wii U tablet. And they showed that off in December of 2014. Meaning like on the character model, you can see the Sheikah slate like flapping or whatever and hitting the back. Oh, yeah, yeah. That I don't remember. I'd have to go back and watch it. Because I remember I made a video about it speculating that I thought it was the book of Medora. Because I remember that video. Previously, before Breath of the Wild, they had Skyward Sword where Zelda's father had the big book in the artwork that had the Sheikah symbol on it. And then for some reason, an Ocarina of Time 3D. I know why you made that video. Yeah, they added in a bunch of random book of Medora lookalikes all over the place. Like you could go to the random Sheikah house or Lawnlawn Ranch. And they would just be like the green book with the Sheikah symbol. So it was kind of odd to see it suddenly appear with Link. But I would have never guessed it was a tablet. So my guess at the time was that it was a book. So. I think hearing all of it, though, the more we talk about the fact of it getting delayed to be a Switch title as well as a dual release with the Wii U, I mean, I would like to see how Breath of the Wild 2 can improve the fact that it's made just for the Switch's hardware. I guess the Switch isn't the most powerful console out there. But also because you're taking sacrifices, the fact that it's a hybrid console, I think it's really exciting to see how they're going to tailor things more towards the Switch and how much more beautiful the game could end up running on it. Because I'll say for a fact, I love Splatoon. And it is one of the most beautiful games on the Switch. It runs at a smooth 60. It's a shooter. There's lots of things going on on that game. And it is just an absolute blast to play. If Breath of the Wild can be tailored any more towards, like Splatoon 2 was tailored towards the Switch versus the Wii U performance of Splatoon 1, I think that we're going to see some really, really interesting elements. And then also, whether or not we're going to get the open world, are we not? Are we getting more traditional dungeons? Are we getting a mix? Like, is it going to be more linear? Is it more story-intensive? All on the performance of how the Switch is made to run it? Like, I just get giddy thinking about it. And that's an interesting thing as well with because we've even seen when Breath of the Wild originally released on the Switch. It did have some issues with frame drops and stuff. And then after a couple of patches, it slightly improved. But it would be interesting to see if they put all their focus on that instead of working on the DLC and the sequel, how good they could have gotten it to run. So seeing all of their attention focused on just getting it to run for the Switch would be interesting to see. Hopefully better than Age of Calamity because that game is rough every now and then. So also it's interesting just noting the development of this game. So Age of Calamity, unlike the first Hyrule Warriors, was one, Aegean, Elmo, and the Zelda team's idea. They approached Koei Tecmo. Two, part of the Breath of the Wild team actually helped with that game. And I don't think, and this was during the pandemics, I don't think that they would have helped with that game if development of Breath of the Wild 2 wasn't going smoothly. Like, for them to be like, hey, look, we know we're not releasing it this year. We know that people have interest in what happened 100 years ago or whatever. Let's just go to them and help them out and get a good game out, and then we'll just get back to Breath of the Wild. I don't think Breath of the Wild development was delayed to help out with that, which tells me that things were going fine with this game this whole time. I agree. And they're literally just waiting for the right release moment to really get it out there and maximize sales. And which has brought up that speculation about are they tying Switch Pro if that exists into it? As like a, hey, we need a time to release it this correctly. And if we do that with the next Zelda game, and like, there's a special Zelda edition Switch, but it's a Switch Pro that's special. Like, how is that gonna really boost Nintendo for the next, you know, three, four years? According to Rakaba, we're just entering the midway point of Switch. With that, I will say Nintendo are also the same people that said that the 3DS was already perfect and an Excel model would not be releasing. This is actually Miyamoto in an interview. And then like literally a month later, they announced the Excel. They said the 3DS was not going to be dying or ending production. They said the same thing about the Wii U. They said the Switch was going to be a third pillar to be supported alongside the Wii U. But then every Wii U game ended up just coming to Switch, which kind of canceled it out. And it was the same thing they also said about the DS taking over for the GBA. And they also, Ms. Klick mentioned earlier how they said that traditional controls or whatever were changing. The motion controls in Skyward Sword would be almost impossible, which we knew from the beginning it wasn't because the same thing they're doing where you can move the right stick to string the sword, you can literally, well, yeah, that, but also on the Dolphin emulator, you can play the game right now on an Xbox 360 or Xbox One controller with that exact same configuration. There's a few live streams where I'm literally playing doing that exact same thing. So whenever they announced it like that, I'm like, hmm, I wonder if, I wonder if they got ahold of Dolphin or something and seeing how they were figuring it out for the casual players that didn't want to use motion control. So there's all these things. And even something as simple as Majora's Mask 3D, they kept on saying they had no intentions or they weren't working on it or whatever, that it was just a rumor. And then they ended up announcing it. And when they announced it, they said they had been working on it since Lockerine of Time had released. So they do the whole time. Yeah, and there was the big rumor for, they weren't going to be moving towards or they didn't have any interest in mobile smartphone games. And then they ended up purchasing an entire portion of a company just to work on mobile games. And that was a huge strategy they had to boost their financials because of the losses on the Wii U. So there's all these- What is basically saying is Nintendo lies a lot because they don't want you to know what they're doing. That is like 10 different examples of Nintendo denying something or saying one thing just to get you to not focus on it. And the reason that I- I'll always remember Miyamoto with the 3DS thing, literally asked directly in a video interview and he says, no, we are not releasing new 3DS hardware. One month later, hey, welcome to the new 3DS. And it's not necessarily that they're lying, which is why a lot of people are like, well, why would Nintendo lie to us? And it's like, no, there's a reason they pay their marketing to millions of dollars. Are you upset that you're actually getting something new? Like, are you upset? Like, really? They're not gonna- Like, Furukawa's not even denying straight up that a Switch Pro exists. He just says, we have nothing to announce soon. Yeah, that's not the same as we have nothing to announce. Before Reggie left- He's not even saying, hey, we don't have it. He did the same thing. Yeah. So where Reggie in an interview was like, he was asked about a second Switch model. And he said, or he was asked about a Switch Pro and a Switch Lite or whatever they were, Switch Mini, whatever it's supposed to be called at the time, the rumor. And he was like, we're only focused on the current Nintendo Switch model at this time, which was like, what do you mean current? You just kind of- Yeah, and before the Switch even came out, they were calling the Switch a family of systems when there was only one system. And it's like, clearly Switch family implies there's going to be more and more and more. And you had all of those people saying that Nintendo would never release a handheld only Switch because it completely defeats the purpose of having- We had some conversation on this one.  I remember saying that, I didn't think they wouldn't, saying they wouldn't do it because I mean, they did a 3DS without 3D with 2DS. So like, yeah, they'll do it. I just don't have an interest in it. I like playing on TVs. I also like playing on the go. I don't need a system for just on the go. That was the whole point of the Switches. I don't need two systems anymore. I can just have one. I mean, I'd also be willing to give up the hybrid though if we just had a more powerful console that just sat at home, you know? Yeah. I'd be fine with that. Yeah, I know, so would I, to be honest. I thought like, so I enjoyed the Switch concept at first because I'm a parent, I got three kids. It's really nice to like, I don't always have the TV. Let's just be honest. It's just when you have children, you probably don't have the TV a majority of the time and you want to play games. And that's what, I actually, that was a big thing with Wii U. I had one kid back then on Wii U and I'm like, this is great, off TV play. Besides the fact that not every game supported it and it was kind of, you had to be within six feet of the system. But whatever, it worked enough. I remember moving the Wii U to a certain position in the kitchen. So when I wanted to get away from the kids, I can go into the bathroom and play it just because of the off TV play. So like when Switch came along was like, this is awesome. And I did, I played a lot of handheld in the early days of Switch. And now I'm almost exclusively playing docked, except like when you go on, like when Eric and I will go to E3 or something, okay, well yeah, I'm playing handled on the plane or whatever, but I'm not in, as an adult, I'm not in those situations as often. And maybe it's just because I don't like work a job where I need to take public transportation. Like when you have a job around here, you drive to it. Yeah, we're small, small town. So like you're not gonna get to play it on a train.  You're driving yourself. So like you could play it on a break at work, but then, you know, it's maybe something else is going on. Like, you know, wanting to eat lunch. So like it gets to the point where as an adult, I'm really not using the handheld as much. And now I got multiple TVs in my room. So I can be like, hey kids, go to, go to this room and watch TV. I'm gonna play Switch in here or whatever. I know guys, I have a unique situation because I have a home studio, which everything in here is just for me. And now I got two TVs in here because the podcast, that is a little deal. So worst case scenario, I just plug into the whole podcast set and then play on there. But it's, I just think that Switch is at a point where it doesn't matter what they release, it's going to sell. It's a standalone system that's more powerful, which some people want, whether it's a more powerful Switch, whether it's just a sleeker Switch. Like if you think of like the Game Boy Advance SP, wasn't really more powerful, but backlit screen and it clamshells. Looked cool. Looked cool, needed to get it. You know, they released a Switch. It's like slightly better battery life, but no bezel and they fixed the Joy-Cons. Boom, it's gonna sell, even if they don't really do much with the power. Now, I know all the reports out there and supposed people are talking about how it's gonna have DLSS, which means it has to have a better GPU. That's great. And we'll see. Maybe that's for a Switch too. I don't know. I don't know what Nintendo has cooking. I just know something's gonna come because something always comes around this time in a hardware cycle. Even guys, think back to the Wii. Remember how popular the Wii was? We got the Wii Mini. We did. Granted, it's a really crappy system and no one should buy it. But it looked cool. It was like red and black. It was kind of cool looking, but that's about it. It was just like a showpiece. Good for kids. They remember it was supposed to be a, oh, you just got cabins where you don't have internet. Okay, but it's like more expensive than the version with internet. So why are we? All right, that's- That was a marketing flaw. Yeah. All right, so that's kind of a transition into like towards the end of the package here. I wanna, we've talked a lot about obviously Skyward Sword HD and then all the things that we think possibly could happen and things we want to happen for the 35th anniversary. We didn't get too much in the merch or custom systems. Obviously, bring us all the merch. Bring us all the custom systems. We'll buy what we want. We won't buy what we want. That happens all the time. Yes, sir? Let me just throw out something here. Do you think for a collection, they would do oracles plus Triforce? Just as a- Triforce heroes? Yeah. Just as a collection for it, bring out the other games individually, but then as their collection oracles and Triforce? I don't think so. No? I think it sounds horrible. I don't know if they'd wanna taint oracles with heroes attached. Yeah, Triforce heroes. I really enjoy Triforce heroes. I know a lot of people do, but again, it's like Skyward Sword and gets a lot of hate. I played it with friends. So like- Yeah. I ran to people online. I'll admit, it's not that good because people are just trolling the whole time and throwing people off cliffs and just being dicks. So like it really ruins the chance to have fun, but it's actually a lot of fun.  It was a lot of fun, but unfortunately I realized most people weren't in that situation to maximize their fun with it. So I don't think Triforce heroes is kind of a not a good rep- Like Skyward Sword has a bad reputation through people not really giving it a fair chance and because of a control scheme that they could technically fix. Triforce heroes is multiplayer Zelda. It's gonna be multiplayer Zelda. You're not really gonna- I mean, you could play it single player, but you wanna play it multiplayer. I don't think there's a- Personally, if they do a collection like that, it's the Oracle games and the Minish Cap because those are the three games you made. But again, they have to remake all three of those games for Switch. It'd be a task. That's a monumental task. I don't see that. It'd be great. I would buy it up in a heartbeat, but I mean- I think- Well, and one thing we are kind of ignoring. So for Mario's anniversary that in six months, they threw together a bunch of simulation HD ports. It's possible they could just do that again. Yes, or they do the 99 kind of like Battle Royale, Tetris 99, Mario 35 that they did. They could do something like that with Zelda as well. I've been wanting Zelda Dungeon ever since Mario 35 came out. I've been wanting the Zelda Dungeon Runner 35 so bad. Yep. That'd be really cool. Donkey Kong's 40th is this year. Oh my God, is that game not built for that kind of gameplay? Donkey Kong? Yeah.  Oh, GDK, 40 players. It would be awesome.  Let's go, but who really knows? I think between all the anniversaries besides Pokemon, who has the Pokemon company that does their own thing, and Zelda that's clearly gonna get the attention. I almost think DK has a better chance of being celebrated than Mario just because DK was like the beginning of Nintendo really getting deep in the gaming. And we'll see. But we'll see. I mean, DK games are also not super popular anymore so we'll see what happens. Yeah. Sorry, I just wanted to throw that out there. No, it's okay, man. No, it was good. What I want to kind of end with is obviously for each one of us, Zelda means something. It represents something to us. It's passionate. We're here on this podcast literally talking nothing but Zelda for this week because it is that big of an IP for multiple different reasons for us. So I'm gonna start with Eric because I think he's mostly experienced Zelda through me playing it. And then obviously, I'll never forget your reaction to the demo 83. I've never seen Eric play a game and be that joyful since Mario 64. Yeah.  I was there at Zelda Informer. He was there to support me and we were literally for three straight days, just kept getting back in the demo line. Oh yeah. I got so many Breath of the Wild t-shirts, so many coins while I saw our point. Yeah, don't remind me of the coins. On the coins, but I have a bunch of coins. I've got so much. Okay, so I'm gonna start with you, Eric. What does the Zelda series mean to you as someone who has mostly experienced it through me but then also Breath of the Wild? Because you know how much it obviously means to me. Yeah. No, for sure. To me, it's all nostalgia because again, I didn't play it. It's a symbol basically of our friendship to a certain extent because a lot of our time spent as young children, we were in your room. I was watching you play Zelda. I mean, that was pretty much our childhood. So was my girlfriend at the time. Do I meet everyone watching? Yeah, you did, you did. Parents walking. What do you do when you're playing Zelda? Yeah, obviously, yeah. And obviously me being your color guy. Oh, the color guy.  I would go through. You know what I mean? Back in the 90s, HTML websites, this was like before PHP and CSS existed. So you wanted to change a color on a website. You had to do it on every page on the website. So I get so bored of it.  You want to do this for me next. Be my color guy. I'm gonna work on walkthroughs. Hey, walkthroughs or TDS too. Yeah. But like, yeah, it's a little more fun as I get to play a game. Yeah, well, I actually enjoyed it. So I didn't get to bother me. And here we are both like at the ages right now and both technically able to program something. Yeah, right? Anyways. Yeah, but no, honestly, it's a symbol of our friendship, our young days, and then Breath of the Wild just kind of carried that through till now and help go into the future. And it's part of the reason why I'm here, to be completely honest. Well, give you an example. So Skyward Sword is true, you're not sure. Breath of the Wild too. 100%. I mean. Not even a question. Not even a doubt. No, yeah. For sure. You are converted. Yeah, nothing against Skyward Sword. It only brought 30 plus years, but I converted you finally. Nothing against Skyward Sword, but it's one of those things that Breath of the Wild was just- I don't think you ever watched me play Skyward Sword. No. That was in college days. Yep. But no, for sure, it's one of those things that Breath of the Wild is just so different yet, so similar yet. It feels familiar, but feels new. Yes. And- There's a magic to it. Yes. And so, you know, going forward with Breath of the Wild too, and things like that, it's just, you know, it gives us, it gives me something forward, you know, to look forward to. Not that we don't have other things in common.  I mean, part of the reason why we're here is because of Zelda. One thing I'll remember when we were kids, so Zelda obviously was mostly just, I ain't handing over the controller. Everyone's watching me play, forget about it.  That's cool, you can make out with me while I play Wind Waker. Not me, by the way. Yeah, not her. I'm gonna throw that out there. I'm not handing over this controller. I love these games. But, I was a little bit selfish with myself to play Game Boy because my parents would always kick me off and I'd always have limited time to play, so I was always like, nope, I'm playing, this is what I'm doing, you just, whatever. But, one thing that was integral and what's really cool is actually, we're expecting some 25th Pokemon announcements, like a couple days after this podcast comes out. As I always remember, Pokemon was that one thing that we both played the hell out of. Link cabled up, trading away, gotta collect them all, get them to catch them all, and I'll always remember that. I just wanted to bring the, I had to get a 25th anniversary Pokemon. For sure. That is coming, I'm not talking about it now just because we know what's coming and that'll probably be a huge topic next week. Next cast, yep.  They've just set the internet ablaze, so I don't know what's happening. And I was a fan of the let's go games, like, I don't know, maybe one of 10. That was a fan, I have no idea, but. So, let's head over to Miss Click. What's Zelda mean to you? That's a little question, but I'll try to keep it brief. Zelda, for me, very similar. I have two sisters, we're very close in age. We're each about a little over a year apart, three of us. We loved multiplayer games, but when we first got ahold of it, it was something that we experienced together. I was the oldest, so I played and ended up awakening my love also for just narrating and voice acting, I guess, with the different characters because my sister's red, they were younger, they were a little bit slower, so I just read the game to them and it became a bonding experience. And it went from this childhood thing to where not having all the systems, all the handhelds, Zelda to me came out every five, six years. As I viewed it, or being a family of lower income, I only got a game every five or six years and I played the heck out of it when I had it. So Zelda to me became kind of this milestone checker in life to where it was like every five years, looking back where I was the first day I got the previous game and how has my life changed since then? How have I grown up? How have I become a new human? What has stayed the same? What are things I look back on fondly or things I'm glad or gone? And Zelda, other than that, I think it sounds really cheesy, but as a kid, you have heroes that you look up to and people you aspire to be. And I just loved the fact that Link, despite all the odds, did what he could to save the people that, or to save the people that he didn't even necessarily have a reason to. He could have been like, nah, I'm fine, but he still decided to put his best foot forward and have the courage to save the world against all odds. And that was something I looked up to as a kid. So I think for me, it was also a little bit of a moral compass checker and then also like to see how I've grown up. So now, you know, when Breath of the Wild 2 comes out, I think back to where I was, you know, when Breath of the Wild 1 came out and how my life has drastically changed even since then, even when I thought there was nothing else that could make another drastic change. It's just, it's a really cool experience that it's kind of grown up with us and they acknowledge that and it's something that will ever shape, shift and evolve to where I don't know if Zelda will ever end one day, if it ends with the legends or, you know, however that decides to come, but it'll definitely be something that, you know, if I ever do have kids one day, I let them experience for themselves and see how they, I guess, react to it for the very first time and make sure someone other than the oldest child will get to play it. So yeah, no, it's a very special series to me. Yeah, my oldest son told me the other day and he's only played Breath of the Wild for maybe five minutes, but he's watched me play it a ton. And when I asked him the other day, you know, if you, out of all the games that I have here for Switch, 100 games or whatever, you know, what do you want to play? Because he plays a lot of Mario games. Sure. And he's like, well, if I can only play one, I'll be Breath of the Wild. I'm like, but you barely played it. Are you sure you're not gonna pick like Mario, like 3D World even playing a lot of that lately? He's like, no, because the game doesn't end. I'm like, oh, okay. I mean, yeah. It's valid, yeah. It's pretty, and I'm like, why is like, and he just said, dad, I know how much Zelda means to you and I want to play it just for you. Plus it's hard. And I'm just like, are you saying this just to sucker me into more video games? Or because you actually legitimately are being sweet and actually want to play it because you know I'm a huge fan of it. Because my other kids don't care too much about Zelda. That's fine. They just remember their own games and their own things that they enjoy in life. If they're not even into games, that's totally fine, which they're all into games. So I don't have to worry about that. And then now I understand as a parent, my parents would try to limit games. I get it. I understand now that I'm on the other side. But Zelda, so Zelda was like an escape for me. The reason it became so special is because I've told this story before, it's been a long time. I grew up in a fairly good home. I had both parents. We were poor, but it feels like everyone was poor back then for some reason. And my parents fought a lot. Like a lot about everything. Literally, it didn't matter if I had Eric or friends, it didn't matter. It was not behind closed doors. Yeah. No, if you knew. Like they would try to do it in public, but the moment you got into the car, it's just... So like, I don't know if you guys have seen that Zelda fan film called Escape. Yep, I loved it. I cried. That was like my childhood.  Not because my life is like the worst life ever, but I didn't want to just focus so much on the arguing happened around me all the goddamn time. And yeah, I even got my GameCube smashed by my dad. Literally smashed it because I was playing it too much. And what I didn't understand is like in that Escape show, like I get why the parents are upset or because their grades were suffering. Sure. But like, I was a straight A student. So why are you mad at me? I play sports, I'm a straight A student and I play a game. And I obviously had to do with stuff going on in their life and his life. So it really wasn't about me, but it was also like one of those moments like when the parent unplugged the system and all that. And I'm just like, man, I've been there. And it just, if you guys want even a taste of what my childhood was like, like you can go watch that movie or that little mini show and kind of give you a taste of what it means to escape in a game. And I'm sure, you know, a lot of you guys, if you're watching a passionate podcast like this, you probably know what it means to escape into a video game. To get away from whatever's going on in your life. It doesn't just have to be as a child, by the way. I've had complications in my relationship that I've escaped the breath of the wild for as an adult. Like just entered into that world as a parent frustrated with your children. They go to bed, I'm turning on a video game, I gotta get away. I need to go somewhere where I'm the hero in my own story. And in a way with your children, you can be the hero in their story, but when they don't show the appreciation for what you do. Cause I know from a kid that comes later in life, usually it doesn't happen early. It's one of those situations where Zelda's always been that game I could escape to. I've played a lot of games, a lot of games, but Zelda's always been the one that it's like, look, if I'm in a rough spot in my life, it's Zelda that's getting turned on. Sure, of course. Something about it just, I don't know if it's Link's struggle. I don't know if it's just how he overcomes expectations of someone who doesn't, he's just a kid in a moment, he's just a kid. Yeah, maybe there's something special about him, the triforce, that's great, but if there's something special about him, is there something special about me? And how I'm gonna call upon my own triforce of courage to get through whatever I'm going through. And so it's just always been there. And I think always will be. The fact that when Breath of the Wild 2's trailer dropped and I was reacting, and I almost had a heart attack on-screen. And I mean, God, that was what? How many years ago back with that now? That was 2019? Yeah, so I was like what, 32, 33 years old. And here I am, like, literally, like I'm a little kid that just got an announcement of a sequel to their favorite movie or something, like Frozen 2 or whatever. Watching that trailer, getting all excited as a kid, it's like, I literally, you know, Yulia, my fiance, watches it and she goes, I've never seen you get that excited before. I'm like, you just don't understand. Yeah. No, Zelda's a different level for me. Sure. And it's not more important than you. It's not more important than the kids. But it's like, it's been there for me more than almost anybody in my life but you. And yeah, when good things happen in your life, I get really excited too. And it's not gonna be as big a deal as my wedding day. But next to the birth of my children and a wedding, don't really know too many moments that are a bigger deal to me. Even when I finish off college, and I'm in right now, like it'll be nice to know I graduated, but I'm gonna feel even better when I beat Breath of the Wild 2. And I know it because just because you graduate college doesn't guarantee job success, doesn't guarantee careers, but what is guaranteed is I'm beating Breath of the Wild 2.  And I'm gonna enjoy it. There's no doubt, no matter what mistakes they make or things I don't like about it, I'm gonna love enough. Cause I've loved enough of every Zelda game. Even the ones that I'm not a big fan of. Like I'm not a big fan of Phantom Hourglass. It doesn't matter. I still really enjoy playing it. So yeah, it's kind of, like for Miss Click, you know, it's kind of like a representative of her life growing up. You know, Eric, a representative of our friendship. Me, a representative of just God dang, has it always been there for me. Game over, Jesse. What's Zelda mean to you? Oh, I've told this story a couple of times. I don't know if I ever mentioned it on your channel before, but I'm sure probably you and Miss Click both have heard some sort of variation of it. But basically, not just my first gaming or Zelda memory, but my first memory period that I can remember is when I was like three, maybe four years old. Possibly younger, I don't really know. But anyways, my brother was in elementary school at the time and our parents would wake me up when they will come up to get helm ready for school. One parent would stay with them and get helm ready and everything. And the other parent would stay with me and we would play like A Link to the Past or Lion King or Aladdin or whatever. But most of the time it was A Link to the Past. And I ended up just like falling in love with the game. And then I remember for Christmas when Ocarina of Time came out, I got it. And that took me even deeper into the games. And yeah, so now whenever I think about the Zelda series, especially A Link to the Past, I think about how my mom, who doesn't even like games at all, would still sit through and play that game with me and be able to like figure out the puzzles and beat the bosses better than I was at the time. And then when Breath of the Wild came out, my little brother and I were playing through it and my dad who had never really played video games, he would play through Breath of the Wild with us just because he likes the whole basically anything that looks in any way similar to Lord of the Rings or any of the people. So yeah, so he would watch us playing it and he would get drawn into it and he started his own file and everything and played through the, I think he made it off the great plateau and that was it. But it's still interesting times. And then even now with my daughter and Link's Awakening, she loves Link's Awakening, even though she doesn't have any real connection to Zelda, she still really lacks that game. Being able to go fishing and just, she usually just stays around the first area and plays with the cuckoos or the chickens, but yeah. And that always makes me wonder like Link's Awakening and Breath of the Wild, like with Breath of the Wild, obviously introducing a whole new like generation of people to Zelda. It always makes me think like, I don't know what it is about this game, but for some reason when you're a kid and you play it, it just sticks for whatever reason. I don't know how Nintendo does it, but they find a way to make it connect at all ages and somehow make people who played it a long time happy, but also people who have never seen it before just fascinated. And I'm not sure how they do, Nintendo's always been this company that's for everybody, but like Zelda's like that one franchise that's like, but this is legitimately, it means something to so many people in such a deep way. And like, I think about my son now is he's watching Let's Plays of Breath of the Wild and playing himself, because I got him his own copy, he doesn't know yet. He's getting, he got a Switch for his birthday like last year. And as excited as he was, he started taking it to school and like outstolen. It is what it is. I felt bad about it, but I was also not in a good place financially at the time to really do anything about it. So it kind of sucked, he doesn't know he's getting a Switch later this year. So Santa got him his own copy of Breath of the Wild in preparation. In preparation, he doesn't, I don't know how he doesn't get this yet. I have my own copy and you don't have to get it again. Hasn't really clicked with him yet. Oh, by the way, this means you're getting your own system. So you have to use dad's copy and take my copy out of the house and lose it.  My daughter, she likes the game. Controls are a little complicated for her for somebody. I don't know why she's 10. I don't know why she hasn't figured it out yet, but she still loves watching it. And it's like even just watching in the era of watching streamers, you know, all of us stream, all of us have streamed Zelda games and played stuff, like watching how people could just be amazed at watching people play, even if they can't get into playing it themselves. Something about Zelda captivates people. I really think you hit on it the earlier with Link and Zelda being kids slash young adults-ish Yup, 16, 17. That really, and their struggles and them persevering and everything like that, you can always see yourself in that character.  Can you really see yourself in him? He's just fun. He's just fun. He's fun. But I think there's something with Link and with Zelda that people can see themselves in it. Well, even like when you think of Just Breath of the Wild, like Princess Zelda, from the very beginning, when you start to learn about the past, does all these expectations on her? Like she's supposed to be like the key to stopping everything. And she can't figure out why she can't call upon her power.  To a certain extent. You will persevere. Parents put expectations on their kids. You need to get your grades. You need to do this. You need to do that. And then you're not always gonna live up to those expectations. And that's what happened with Zelda.  And it's kind of like, oh, we want our kids to always be better than we are. So we always put these expectations. I'm trying to get them to work hard. Trying to get them to be responsible. And they don't always live up to it. And sometimes they feel great shame and disappointment.  Yeah. And Zelda kind of teaches you it's okay to not be perfect, to mess up. It's about getting back up and not, you know, don't give up just because things aren't going well in the moment. And that's something I learned from Zelda. And I'm trying to teach it to my kids that, hey, yeah, I know you can do better in school. I know that let's work towards it. Let's figure out why you're not. And just pick yourself up and dust yourself off and get back at it. You don't have to just kick yourself. You know, like the hardest thing for me was I have a daughter who has depression. And before we were willing to get her looked at and trying to deal with it through counseling and everything. She would always say like anytime something bad happened at school if she got a bad grade on a spelling test or whatever because she knew, you know that we want her to get good grades but we're more important that to us that she just does her best. And she would feel so down on herself.   And I looked her in the face and I just said, no, you're not. I know like we're not even putting me you're putting these expectations on yourself because you want to make us so proud. And it's like we are proud of you. It's okay. Yeah, you know you can do better. It's good that you know that you can do better but you don't have to like kick yourself when you're down. Like let's think what can we do to do better next time? Like can we change our study habits? Can we try flashcards? Can we do something different than what we've been doing to help you retain the information? And she just said, I don't know dad. I don't know.  And I'm like, I remember talking to my fiance about it. And I'm like, we can't let our kids feel like just because they didn't do their best or they let themselves down or let us down that there's nowhere to go. And she, and Yulia said, well, how did you deal with it? I'm like, I had Zelda. My parents didn't teach me that. My parents did nothing but make me feel like a disappointment because I do have a really high IQ. Things are easier for me. So when I didn't put in the effort and I did get low grades, punishments were swift punishments were hard and they never made me feel like it was okay to not want the same things that they want. Because they wanted me to do this and that and I just didn't really have an interest in it. My parents hate that I do YouTube. They are not supportive of this at all. Even after all this time? Even after all this time, they do not care. They think it's a waste of time. They have given up trying to tell me what to do but they don't fundamentally understand. And I don't think they ever will. I don't think they've ever been open-minded enough to understand. And that's okay in some regards. Nowadays, they've more or less just kind of let it be. They know I do it. They know I'm in college as well but they know I do it and they just kind of leave it alone.  And like sometimes there's things that are just more important than paychecks. And I grew up poor so to my parents it's always paychecks, money, you have a family to support and my family is supported. So I don't know what else you want me to do. Shouldn't I be happy? And I understand as a kid growing up the pressure always put on me like, my parents wanted me to be a doctor growing up. Hey, you have the brain, be a doctor. I'm like, but I don't wanna be that stuff. Ever consider what I wanna do? And I think that happens with the kids where they, where my children want to be better than we were being better places than we are not, cause my children are experiencing right now where we only have one car. We had two, both cars broke down. We were able to scrounge together enough to get one more car. But like, yeah, we can't always go everywhere cause mom's at work or dad's at work or we don't, you know, they don't wanna see themselves in that situation. It's like, but just because you're not always attaining what the goals you have doesn't mean that you're failing and you need to find your own path, find your own ways and desires. But Zelda was how I did it. And so I think Zelda's actually helping my son a lot. Ever since he started playing Breath of the Wild, he has actually become less afraid of communicating at school. Cause he doesn't communicate his feelings very well, but since he started playing Zelda, now the teachers actually know what's going on.  You know what he did? I got a phone call from the school, hey, does someone in your house have COVID? I'm like, no. Like when your son's walking around telling everyone that everyone has COVID in your house.  Like this is not good. You know, your teachers can get like, in serious trouble. Oh boy. Like you don't joke about this. And he's just like, I just wanted you to pick me up so I could play Zelda. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is why you learn as a parent that sometimes video games go a little too far with some kids. Making stuff up to get sent home. Yeah, okay. No. Anyways, yeah, Zelda's obviously a big deal for all of us. I want to thank you everyone for tuning in. Hey, where could they find you guys at? Game Over, Jesse, you got something to say? I see your hand raised up like you're in class. Oh no, I was pressing a mute and unmuted. I just want to say hi to you and he's like, he's raising his hand up. Hello, welcome to the class. So Game Over, Jesse, where could they find you? Yeah, I was lucky enough to have everything at or slash Game Over, Jesse. So twitter.com slash Game Over, Jesse, if you want to keep up to date on stuff. YouTube is slash Game Over, Jesse. Twitch.tv slash Game Over, Jesse. There's a Facebook page and a Facebook group that you can find by just typing in Game Over, Jesse or Hylian Gamescast. And if there is anything out there where you can make a profile, chances are it is also Game Over, Jesse. So basically I'm a Google Game Over, Jesse and everything I find, I'll link it down in the description for you guys. Yeah, you want to see him do a TikTok dance. It might be out there. I have no idea. Where could they find you, Miss Click? Yeah, thanks for having me. This was a pleasure. I'd love just being able to talk about Zelda. And obviously constructive criticism about what could be changed and bettered but not be able to doom and gloom about it. Like the internet tends to be so certainly nice. Internet is like extreme one way. Everything's on fire. And I'm like, you know what else is on fire? Hyrule Castle Town. We could have a lot worse. Yeah, right. Especially right now with all the blizzard stuff going on like, y'all, this is what we're gonna focus on right now. Geez. Anyways, yeah, thanks for having me. You can find me on YouTube as Miss Click Gaming. Other than that, I'm pretty much just Miss Click on everything else. I'm Miss Click underscore live on Twitch, which we stream pretty much every day except for Sunday. But yeah, just we love Zelda. I think Zelda's also awakened my love for Let's Play. So we do tons of Let's Plays of games on all different consoles and PC and stuff like that. So yeah, it's a good time had by all. I love meeting new, I love, how do I say? I know how important Zelda is to me. So when someone plays Zelda and experiences it because they know I love it, it means a lot. So I like playing the games that are their Zelda to them. And they get to watch my reaction bestly. So it's an honor and thanks for having me. Yeah, no problem. Hopefully I can have you guys on a future episode down the line. Cool. All right. Thank you guys for watching. You can find this podcast obviously right here on YouTube if you happen to be watching the YouTube version. If you're not and you're listening to the audio version on iTunes, Google podcasts, got everywhere, Anchor, Spotify. I don't know, we're literally on like 12 different platforms, audio-wise. If you happen to find us through there and you want to see the video version, we have a full on video version on YouTube, fully edited trailers, lots of, a wonderful set if I do say so myself. I don't know, it's different than any other set I've seen. So I don't know. Trying to be original over here. Otherwise, as I said, go find us on anywhere you prefer to listen to podcasts. We're probably there. And if we're not, let me know and I will get us there because I want to be where you want your ears to be. Whether you're working out, driving in a car, maybe you're listening to it while you play games because some people do that. So, all right, thank you guys. Catch you in the next episode.