Hello, thank you so much for joining. Today we have Lefris Cosmas with us. He's an open source enthusiast, a space technology enthusiast, and he has dedicated his life improving the field of space and technology. So thank you so much for joining. And for those who don't know, Cosmas will be our keynote speaker at Academy 2023. And before we start, we really want to know what inspired me, or this person inspired me, or I have a role model. I was a kid. I was at high school. What's your story? So to be honest, space has always been an inspiration. As a kid, I always looked upon projects about new probes, humble telescope, you name it. But the thing that actually made it possible for me to be really inspired and to participate in this organization was that, and being a founding member, was that the most inspiration I drew was from the work done by fellow open source projects, KDs1, Knudinx, another, Mozilla, which I presented in the past, where I found them for making it possible for me to work daily on one matter. And the other matter was that they powered me as a user. And that was truly an inspiration to be involved with open source projects. I have to admit that personal condensers, my best friend, my brother-in-law, are really involved in open source and introduced me to Linux back in the early days in 1999. But the thing is that in general, I'm inspired by the operation we open source users and developers and the community as a whole, drives open source projects together. So when you were a kid, did you really want to work for space? And you looked at the stars. You had a telescope. Was there something like this? But just by chance, you started this, working in this field. OK. So here's the thing. To some extent, it was science, meaning that we all were members of the same open source community. We were members of the same hacker space that devoted in open source software and open source hardware and open source data. The things that got me really involved into that was a participatory way we started working. We started working on a project for NASA Space and Challenge. We coordinated together. We wanted to make something open. Then things started to fall in place. At first, I wasn't expected to be part of that thing, to be honest. I am not a very technical person. I am not a developer person. I am actually a sleep technologist by training, mostly health care and research. And it was a little bit like that. But I was always involved in open source and doing longing and doing some journalist work in the past, Linux magazines and stuff like that. So I want to be involved in open source. The space came as something extra. I was actually thinking that a space came before and then opened so. So it's the other way around. Yes, it's the other way around for me. Many persons on our team, that's not always the same. But especially for me, open source came first. And space came as a natural progress of things. Interesting. So I'll change the question a bit then. If you are such an enthusiast for open source software and what was the reason that you were always so pro of open source? Is there like something that you, when you started your career, somebody told you about it and you already knew about all of this? How did this happen? OK, it's a personal anecdote. But the thing is that I have a best friend that actually came one day and said, you must have to do it. I got this DVD set that has an operating system and you can actually give it to other people and they can use it and you can actually make copies of it and use it by yourself. Come on. Really, yes, it's called a pre-set at the time. We started trying to set up our machines with that. Well, it was 1999, 2000. Well, we were not both of us. He's a medical doctor. I'm trained as a nurse. Oh, nice. So yes, I'm actually trained as an ICU nurse, formally. So we're trying to figure out how we will set up our machines and how we will ever set up an X server, which was pretty complicated at the time. I have to admit it. When we started discussing about it and discussing about the development process of open source on free software, we got pretty enthusiastic about the fact that people actually work together to develop it. And they work together with a set of rules and they work together with a set of licenses. And these licenses are part of what empowers open source to. And we were flabbergasted. And that's a pretty cool way of working together. That's a pretty cool way of making progress to things. Of course, it has its caveits, of all things. But if you think about it, it's really interesting the way it's developed. And it's really interesting that you can actually, at least for me, I could actually see the process. I could actually see what I was using was becoming useful, released by release. Yeah. Which was at least interesting for me. That's true. To say the least. Yeah. So now, just when you were saying something really interesting came up, and you said that you are a nurse, right? You were a nurse. So from nursing to space, how did this happen? It's like really interesting. I wouldn't have thought switching my careers all the way to a very different career field. So how did that happen? OK. So I worked as a nurse, and I'm trained as a nurse. That's the unit nurse by training. But I always had a good snack for computers. I always had an interest to computers, an interest to the internet. And it was a useful tool. So sometime I started waiting as a sleep technologist. It's kind of similar to being a nurse, but not exactly like that. Then while I was a sleep technologist, I wanted to try to get hands on with some building websites, and started blogging about open source because I was really interested in that operational idea. Because coming from health care, I'm coming from health care nowadays, you have to have cooperation in mind. You have to use standards. You have to use open data to some extent. All that thing comes into you.  It was the time that Wikipedia started being something very useful and popular. And Linux started being more easy to use. And all the transition from KD to KD4 was also that time. Yes. So the thing is that being a part of describing the news about it, and I had the time to work at the local Linux magazine to cover the news. So I was starting being involved into open source communities a little bit more actively. And then when we started building a physical place where people would work on an open source project, not only online, but have an actual office, an actual desk, an actual laboratory that could work, things started coming along a little bit more efficiently through the light. And the chance came up to be part of that community, being part of Flipper Space Foundation, which for me is one of the most unexpected things I could imagine, because I wouldn't ever imagine myself holding a satellite that caught in orbit. I can put it in my mind till now, because it was a little bit out of this world. Sometimes when I'm talking about it, I understand that it's a little bit weird being a person holding satellites on your hand. Come on, it is weird. So we were talking about the career change right now. From your nursing career to the space field, what do you think has been the most challenging task for you? You would say that, OK, this is something which I have done. It would have been possible for me to do it. So one thing that you think, I'm sure there would have been a lot of challenges, but one thing you think, OK, this was the most difficult thing I have done. I have to admit that my personal thing that I've said, OK, now the amount of this lead was when we had to negotiate stuff with European Space Agency and other entities. Because you have to take into account that building the Libre Space Foundation is one thing. Having the Libre Space Foundation being part of the actual space community and space industry is another thing. It was much more difficult. It teased more. You expected to be more demanding and being more out of your league than being part of even open source communities. Because at least in open source communities, people will excite you. You have a lot of documentation lined around the same. And the space is, by tradition, if you like, a more closed area of the industry. It used to be only the privilege of big states and giving big government organizations and defense contractors. Now it's becoming a little bit more open to corporations or even startups. But it's still demanding. And it was actually great when we delivered the satellites to the United States of America. And it was really interesting to see your satellite coming out of the International Space Station and even listen to your satellites through open source satellite down station network. Interesting. So I really didn't want to touch about the foundation. But because it will be part of Academy Talk as well. But still, I really want to know how Libre Space Foundation was co-founded. And was it something you were just discussing and it just came up or even though we have touched about the topic that how your career switch was, but specifically if I would talk about the organization. So did you just sit around and you were thinking about doing it or it just came up because there was an opportunity? So maybe just briefly if we can talk about it.  So we started building satellites a while back as a team of people lying around in the hugger space working together. And the thing is that we actually had applied to participate in a holiday price. It was a kind of a challenge that would give out around $200,000 to the first winner. We were discussing whether or not we would win or not or something like that. It was we never expected to win. So we won the first prize. And we got $200,000. So we were at the time 9 to 10 people on the team. And we had to decide what we're going to do. We're going to split the money and say goodbye. Or are we going to build something together and be part and continue to work on the project and continue to do open source technologies? And the natural conclusion was that we are going to build something nonprofit. And we're going to build it focused on delivering open source technologies in space. Either it's going to be a ground station or it's going to be a satellite. We don't know. We will not expect it to be a satellite, to be honest. We will not say, OK, you know, we're going to work on a satellite, say, in a few years. We're not sure about that. We weren't even sure about satellites. That it would be so popular that it is right now. It's the largest ground station ever globally. But things came in place. And open source, really, I say that a lot of times. And I will say it again. I will say it in my presentation, in my keynote, and in personal notes. Open source by itself. It's a huge thing. It's a catalyst in whatever you do. So for me, that played a great role. And since then, seven years have passed. Well, no, eight. Eight years have passed. And you're here still working and still doing stuff. That's a very inspiring story, actually. Like, I'm sure a lot of people would be inspired doing something, you know, some going out of your comfort zone and winning a competition. It's not easy. Do you think that you were so pro of open source and why you're working in the space industry right now? There are challenges and you face a backlash from proprietary softwares. Or you feel like, you know, because it's open source technology, you have to work way harder compared to if you were to be using proprietary software. What's your opinion about it? I have to admit that while I'm not an engineer, talks that I have with our engineers and people from the industry, the thing is that, at first, I've seen that people were skeptic. And that's understandable. People were used to proprietary solutions. And they were used to proprietary solutions because they were the only solutions they had. There were some prior initiatives smaller on other projects in the past that didn't really work out. So people were expecting us to be less organized maybe. I don't know. I think that when you say space and open source in the same phrase, people look at you with skepticism. And that's understandable.  What's that? What are you trying to prove? But the thing is that nowadays, our organization has partnerships with larger organizations, even for-profit companies that do recognize that open source is a solution and it can't fit their own needs. Next time, they expect to take whatever they can from it. But yeah, that's a story. I mean, for many industries, that was the story altogether. I mean, we were not expecting open source to be a thing in the automotive industry, but Genevieve is there. We didn't expect KD to run on gaming machines and consoles, but Steam Deck is there. People are using it. So yeah, things change slowly. I'm generally using several KD apps around. I'm mostly a KD user, plus my user, my same. So yeah, in general, I use a lot of KD stuff to the extent that it comes a little bit, oh, you know, the way you can do that with KD, you know, it's a little bit unknown. So you said that for my wife. You have used KDE products and there's one astronomical application, KSTARS. Have you got a chance to use that? Of course, KSTARS. Everybody has used KSTARS. And everybody who is at least interested in space, a little bit more than Yozo has used KSTARS. Other people that are using it with simple manual telecom blackmail because I'm cheap. Or other colleagues of mine that are a little bit more into using, ah, yes, I'm going to use this robotic thing that does everything by itself. And hey, Yozo and KSTARS.  But yeah, KSTARS is a really great piece of software. Thank you. I think I'm going to pass this to the developers that you think that it has the potential. And we are talking about the space industry right now. Do you think that there are different challenges compared to other fields? Like, you know, every industry has its own challenges. And do you feel that there are certain challenges of your field? Like, for example, when we talk about open source, then we have challenges of going up what is happening in the market, right? You have to be always up with the game. So what do you think are the challenges currently in the space industry? I believe that, especially nowadays, space industry is in crossroads, like, because, let's be honest, we have seen several big companies, startups, corporations still there. That are trying to deliver stuff using huge amounts of funding. And some of them manage to do so, some not. Space industry used to be a little bit more static than that a few years ago. Things changed a lot after SpaceX. And after many companies came along and changed the way things are done. But I believe that the trends that I would like to see, and I believe that it's more normal to see in the future, transparency, openness, even collaboration with open source projects, because that actually makes business sense. And it's actually a more ethical way to do things, if you ask me. That's true. So I don't know if you know about our project. We have this environment project, which is called KDEco. And when we talk about environment, do you feel that space industry is doing something which would help us in the future for the climate change, or currently you think of something which is trying to move towards that goal? I believe that the space industry has a lot of potential to provide real data, open data, and reliable data to the scientific community. This is really important for me and the way I see it, because if we start talking about climate change, which we have to, in my opinion, we have to have open data, even if we could have open sensors and open software that will take that data and provide output, that would be amazing, because that's the way you can actually track your data. And that way you can actually be sure that the impact you're making is proper. Or that the hole you dug yourself into is that big. If you have to know these things, and you have to be sure that what you know is 100% sure. That's true. That's a long way to, I believe that that's the way we could actually, the space industry could be impactful in our environment. And I believe that, in my humble opinion, that's the only way we could actually be impactful. Because let's be honest, space has an environmental impact. Minimal to the other industries, like our lines, but it has an environmental impact. But the data we can get are really important. And we have to be really aware about this and have to be really independent about the data we get. Meaning that, today we get data from NASA tomorrow. Well, I hope we will. I trust our fellows in NASA that we will, but yeah. So we were just talking about environment and how things are evolving. So how do you see the future in the space industry? Do you think that things will be better or how? And also how the open source technology has been favoring these things. So is there an advantage? We talked about challenges, right? But now, if you talk about the positive things about that, how open source will actually help in the future for the space industry? Yeah, I do believe that the space industry will change in the future. I'm not sure about naming names and calling out companies that will actually disrupt the technological paradigm. But I do believe that I see several traditional big aerospace companies starting slowly to be involved in open source. And it's a long way till we have the paradigm we have in servers and computers that's a long way. But I do believe that in the future, we will see more. Because it makes sense, and let's be honest, because a lot of things might change in making open source a little bit more logical, if you like, a little more simple and logical to work with space. There are a lot of stuff that have done reinventing the wheel. Usually, it's kind of normal because the space industry has a long tradition of being secret. And this reinvasion of the wheel, every time you build a new probe or any time you build a new satellite, doesn't always make sense. It does sometimes, but it doesn't always make sense. And that really must change. So we spoke about open source, we spoke about what is happening in the future. So what do you think? How diversity is being included in your organization? Because in the past, space industry was a field which was very male dominated. Do you see that it is changing or it's your organization doing something towards it? I have to admit that when we started our organization, it was almost like a man's club. Let's be honest about it. It was toys and big robots, smaller architects. But the thing is that I really see nowadays, I was in the local hardware space the other day, there were a couple of girls working on an experiment for our facilities. And I was thinking, man, we are actually having people working together. And there are people that are young, especially young girls that are working together in the same team. There's a lot of guys in that part of the team. They serve the same jokes, they serve the same ideas, they serve the same passion about stuff. And that's the important thing. Yes, they are different, of course, but they serve the same ideals. And that's the important thing. And if you have the same ideals, the same or familiar technical background, you can work your stuff out. And at least in our organization, it means a lot of work and it needs a lot of opportunities for people because let's face it, being a male in a male-dominated society and male-dominated occupations gives you a heads up to some extent, at least, for many people. It gives you some heads up if you are working in a female-dominated profession. I can be an attest to that. I know that.  So I know that there are struggles there. And we want to be inclusive and focus on the technical excellence of people because we are building satellites. We are building ground stations, of course. We don't care about how people identify themselves on their denser or what they do. We care about how good the stuff is and how good the licensing is. Everything else, yeah, we will support you. We will be there. And you're coming, at least, and that's the matter in most open source communities, in my humble opinion, at least. But we are here. We will help you. We will give you whatever resources you need to do what you need to do. And that's the best thing that people can actually do. My humble opinion. Maybe we could do better. And I think we could. But that's the status right now. I hope in the future you'll see more people, more people in my position being female. I hope so. I really do. I'm so glad to know this. Well, I really hope so from the, actually, I really hope so because I'm a father of a young girl right now. She's really young. She's so young that you can't actually take it into account.  Yeah, I don't like to see her struggling to prove herself. I agree. An engineer has to struggle to prove themselves every day whether they are male or female. A female engineer maybe has to prove herself twice or more. So you just spoke about your daughter and we're talking about how younger people, when they're coming to a field, they have very different challenges. Do you think somebody who maybe you are an inspiring story, right? And somebody who's going to watch this interview and will be inspired and want to join the space industry. What advice would you give to that younger person who would like to join the industry? I believe that the first thing people should take into account is that focus on the skills, how things should be done and things should be done by the book in the space industry. And then they should focus on their own selves and believing that what they do is actually something that can be done. It's a challenge, of course. Most people that come into the space industry are either engineers or people with a managerial role like me. See the talent. See that's a challenge. I'm going to negotiate with the European Space Agency. Oh my God. Yeah, you will do it. It's doable. And you have to believe in yourself and you have to believe in what you know. The best thing you can do is know as much as you can. How you can know as much as you can? Open social solution because you can know the hell out of it. Yes. So that was a great advice, but I know that at least for me when I'm working because I'm also working from home, there's one thing that keeps me motivated. So for you, if you were to give an advice to someone who is working or is planning to work in the space industry, what motivates you and what should actually they follow that would keep them motivated? I would be honest with you. I believe that it's part of what we believe as an organization actually. Is that we believe in the space is for the betterment of all mankind. And thinking that what you do might in the future actually help someone. It could be catalytic to what you do. Thank you so much. And let's talk about something now about is there any upcoming project or any book you're writing or podcast that viewers should look forward to? Currently, we don't have any plans of... I certainly don't have any plans of actually writing something or doing a podcast, but the thing is that what we really want to do is build. Build more satellites, build more ground stations and build more open solutions. And for us, and for me personally, this is the most inflation failure we can provide. I know that for many people this answer will be asked of what they do or what they would like to see or what they would like to come shown. But for us as an organization, putting out technologies out there that are useful and could be used for other people, that's the most important thing we can do. That's interesting. You're right. This is a weird kind of question, but whenever you meet palmist and astrologist, you have what is happening in the future. Is there anything in the end you would like to say that these are the coming astrological phenomena looking forward in the next month? Do you want to share some predictions? Do you want to share something? It's exciting. I have to admit that although I don't believe that, I don't really know what to say. I think that the most exciting thing I can think of is building more solutions for space. Maybe a constellation of open source satellites will come soon and we'll actually help people find out more about the invisible stuff that are happening around us. Okay, that's too much. So other than now we have spoken about work and space industry, is there something which you are doing other than work? Like maybe you like to read books or you have some interest in sports? Any hobbies? Yes. For example, my hobby was around here and it was time to mess with my laptop. That was my kid. Well, I like to play the piano. I do read books. When I have the time, I do take long walks. I used to go to museums and galleries in the past, but when COVID came, when my daughter came, we would do it again. Of course, things have changed a lot after COVID. We have already spoken about that space industry was not something that you had in mind when you started your career, but do you have a favorite space movie or a book which you say, okay, this is something which is very interesting and if somebody wants to read and is interested in space, should read it or watch a movie? Okay. Of course, I do have several space favorite space movies, series or stuff like that. I'm a known trackie. I love to track. Mostly because they use L-Cars interface. But Katie used to have something similar. Katie took. But, yeah, I loved a book actually from Charles Schwarz. But people can actually download and read because Charles Schwarz is a cool guy. And it's called Acceleranto. It's a really interesting book and it's really nice. And there's some interesting hard science fiction that's always nice to read. Thank you so much. I really suggest that people could take that. Thank you so much. And I think it was really interesting to talk to you. Before we end, I have one final question. So, you know, that academy is happening in July and hopefully you will be there. So one teaser if you would like to give about your talk so that people would come and enjoy your keynote. A teaser from my presentation. I would say going from town to earth to orbit with free software and open hardware. But mostly. Thank you so much. And it was really nice talking to you. I hope you enjoyed it too. I did. Thank you. And we are really looking forward to your talk at the academy and hope to see you in person as well. And thank you so much once again. I'm really forward. Looking forward to visiting Estes Alaniki and participating in the academy. And I'm really, really looking forward to say thank you to the people that are building KDE. Because it's been my main, my only desktop environment since 1999. Thank you, people, for that. And I hadn't ever had the chance to actually say thank you to everybody because it's really, it's been part of my daily life. Thank you so much. I think obviously a lot of developers will watch this video but then not. I think I'll make sure everybody knows about it. And I think these kind words are the things which motivate them to continue working. And thank you so much once again. I really thank you. Have a good day. I'm looking forward to see you in the academy. Yes. I'll stop recording now.