And we are live on the 90th edition of the Red Man Group. I am your host and moderator, Donovan Sharp. We are brought to you by Tactical Soap, which will increase the size of your Johnson by up to eight feet pun definitely intended with regular use. Tactical Soap is not responsible for the destruction of your woman's lady parts front, back, or her esophagus. Tactical Soap, please use responsibly. We're gonna open up the phone lines right now. If you guys wanna call into the show, the number is 914-205-356. Again, that is 914-205-356. If you're calling from outside the US, it is 001-914-205-356. Before we get started, taking phone calls and everything, let us go ahead and introduce today's panel. First up, a man who needs no introduction, Stefan Malanou. His website is freedomain.com. You guys can follow him on Twitter at Stefan Malanou. I still have no idea how to spell it, so you guys are gonna have to fend for yourselves on that one. Just released a documentary, which we'll talk about here shortly. You guys can find that at FDR as in Franklin Delano Roosevelt, url.com forward slash Hong Kong. Again, that's fdrurl.com forward slash Hong Kong. Next up is Noel Revoy.  You can find him on Twitter at Noel Revoy. Next up, of course, is the man known as Doomsday Jesus, DDJ, for short. His website is Missandri today. He would be on Twitter, but Twitter didn't buy the fact that he identifies as a female 94% of the time, so we're still waiting on that. Of course, also on the panel is none other than the CEO and founder of 21 Studios and the 21 convention, Anthony Dream Johnson. His websites are 21studios.com and the 21convention.org. Be sure to subscribe to this channel, which is the red man group, as well as his channel, 21 Studios, for exclusive content, video, and to sign up for 21 University. I, of course, have Donovan Sharp. You guys can check me out at donovansharp.com at patreon.com slash donovansharp. I'm on the air all the time, every time. Gentlemen, how are we doing this morning? Doing well. Very well, thanks. Excellent, excellent. So what we're gonna do is we're going to pick up where we left off last week when we were discussing the 22 convention. It is a convention for women by men, and we actually have three new guys here today talking about this particular topic. Noel Revoy, I think this is the first time you and I have done a show together. I wanna open up the floor. I wanna go to Stefan first. So just at first blanch, when you hear 22 convention for women by men, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? Mansplaining. Yes, I love it. Manspreading. We're gonna need four chairs for every man because we're gonna be doing yoga on the chairs, just trying to keep the twigs and berries from mashing into mashed potatoes. So, listen, I mean, the idea, of course, that men have something to say that women need to hear goes very much against the narrative, right?  So I think that it's hard for people to conceive of the fact that men do have things that they need to say to women. That's what I talked about in Orlando. Gosh, was it only last month? Wow, time's flying in the internet era. So I think that when you say, here's a convention for women where men have stuff to say. Well, of course, if you had a convention for men where women were telling them things, well, I guess that would be a TED Talk, pretty much every TED Talk, it seems.  And so the idea that we have something that women need to hear, it's really challenging for people because that's not how it's supposed to work. I went out on this, too, that I think, Stefan, I was gonna give a presentation at the Orlando Convention recently that Molly was talking about and it was actually titled Make Women Great Again as a lead up to the 22 convention, Make Women Great Again. Stefan's talk, what men most want to say to women, hit the nail on the head in so many ways that I wanted to that I actually ended up not even doing my talk. There are other reasons along with that, too, just running the event and the time invested in that and the attention, the focus. But his talk was killer for that, particularly the ending that we need to tell women the truth. And that, I think, is what this convention is gonna do at a scale that we've never seen before. With speakers like Stefan, Mike Cernovich, Elliot Hulse and many other guys there, including Noah and stuff like that, here on the panel in Donovan Sharp. So I'm really excited for that. And I really think that's what women need to hear is the truth and that we need to do that from a particularly masculine, fatherly kind of perspective because that voice is lost in the West today. And Stefan nailed that in his speech just incidentally, I think, at the 21 convention. But I'm really excited to hear what he has to say as well for a 22 con coming up in the spring. Excellent. So Noah, this is the first, like I said, this is the first time I've done a show or broadcast with you. What are your first thoughts on the 22 convention? Well, I think it's interesting. The feedback I've got from women was that there are women that either love or hate the concept. And I think there are some women that will warm up to the concept the more they think about it. There has been a strong programming as Stefan mentioned for women to not accept the idea that men have anything that they can contribute to a conversation between men and women. And that's going to affect every single woman that's ever heard that propaganda, which is 99.9% of women. Maybe the Amish women haven't heard it. Everyone else has been semi indoctrinated. And the power of indoctrination is that even if you don't want to believe it, being exposed to it will to a certain extent affect you. You can become resistant, but it will affect you. And I think that the counter to that propaganda is it can't be middle of the road. It has to be the exact opposite. And the idea that men have something to offer to women and ideas to offer to women is basically how Western society functioned through most of its history. We had a highly protective society. We, to a large extent differentiated ourselves by how well we protected women, our patriarchal culture, by patriarchal in the sense of benevolent protection of women and children. It's why, for example, it's why Athens left us so much literature and philosophy and art and history and Sparta who didn't protect women and children to a very good extent left us with nothing but a bunch of rumors and legends. You know, it's what we have to offer to this conversation is not to tell women what to do is to tell them the truth. They're gonna have to decide what they do with that. No, listen, I agree 100%. I heard recently on a show that I did a while back. You can't make a woman submit to you. The act of submission is simply relinquishing control. You can't make a woman do anything she doesn't wanna do. You have to make her want to do it. Big thanks goes out to Gravalite with a $5 super chat. He says, thank you guys. Not only are you responsible for me getting in this community. I am researching my first topic for a red pill podcast. That's what I'm talking about. This, again, a lot of guys wanna know what they can do to sort of change things. That is a very, very good way. DDJ, let me come to you with this question because obviously women have such a hard time listening to men in any capacity, least of all anything to do with their sexual market value, how to be good in relationships, et cetera, et cetera. Why do women have such a hard time listening to men with regards to helping them not to self-destruct? Which of course we know is their automatic programming. I really think it's because of the multi-generational destruction of the family. We always hear about the trope of the girl with daddy issues. And the problem that you have with the multi-generational destruction of the family through the promotion of divorce, through the promotion of demonization of men, through the promotion of Miss Andrew of men combined with the promotion of promiscuity culture, you basically destroy the whole idea that women should be anything other than a highly promiscuous feminist who should look at all men as suspect. So I think that the challenge that these women have is that, and you see this time and time again, women in their late teens, in their 20s, sometimes in their 30s, they run out and for lack of a better term, the man is fair term, they ride the cock carousel, right? They're highly promiscuous or they marry for a while and then they dump their husband for somebody better and they monkey branch to another man. They do all these different things. And my whole view on that is that this is definitely like what Noah said and like what Stefan has said many times before, this is a product of indoctrination. It's multi-generational indoctrination because these women believe the feminist lie, hashtag show alert, that they can have it all.  You know, those, the women who are able to do that, they're the exceptions, not the rule. So when you're talking about why won't women listen to a man, it's because these women have been told that men are evil, that men are incompetent. And it's not just from the hidden Facebook groups. It's not just from the second wave feminists that have raised these women. It's from the media. It's from the government. It's from, you know, the American Psychological Association, for example. There are all these pseudo authoritative sources that have gone through and they have done all the feminist man-shaming that you would ever want. So, and the problem is, is that again, when these women turn 40 and 50 years old, the prominent ones will write articles going, gosh, I wish I didn't do that. Well, you can't turn back the clock. You can't, I mean, there was, I read a story about two weeks ago where there was a woman who she went out and she got her Juris Doctorate degree. She was a lawyer or she was very prominent. Basically she had a postgraduate degree. She was highly successful in her field and she bought into the feminist lie. You can go ahead and freeze your eggs. So she froze her eggs and I think she froze like 10 of them. Well, they thawed them, five of them died during the thaw. Oh, Jesus. Four of them would, yeah, four of them wouldn't take and the last one, a month after she was pregnant, aborted, itself aborted. So, and she's never gonna have children now. And her seed is never gonna be passed on to that next generation. So what ends up happening is, is that all these women, they're hearing all this misinformation and they're not listening to the people who can actually tell them the truth, which are their fathers, which are the men in their lives and men like the people on this panel here. So that's why they don't listen. It's because they've been told not to and frankly, they've been lied to. DDJ, I've always liked to your focus on the fall, not just with the nuclear family, but the extended family. So you mentioned fathers, but I think you also mean uncles and grandfathers and cousins. Yeah, let's dive into that for a second because I think that the biggest lie in the feminist argument when you're discussing the ideology is they present the false dichotomy of being single versus the nuclear family. And really that is a false framing. The reality is, and everybody knows this from Gen X back and I'm coming up on 50 here, but it's not, the nuclear family doesn't survive. The nuclear family is not enough. You have to have the extended family. You have to have involvement of grandparents and aunts and uncles. You have to have these family gatherings where the extended family gets together, where people meet your cousins and you meet all the other people that are involved because that's what is a true family. When they talk about the nuclear family, all that is is a false reframe. And I've seen many people involved in nuclear families only to have those families fail because those extended families were completely destroyed by all the feminists slash socialists indoctrination. And that's a problem because we have decided that as a society that we would rather promote the culture of me than the culture of we. And the reality is that this is a problem because look, this is your family. You should stand by your family. You should stand by your parents. You should stand by your grandparents. But more importantly, you should stand by your children. And while you teach them those lessons and sometimes those lessons involve tough love, the point is that it's important to have those connections. If you don't have those connections, everything else fails. Everything else that you try to do fails because it all falls on deaf ears. And the only way, that's one of the reasons that I really value Christianity. That's why I value the Christian value system is because it values that extended family. Now, I'm not discussing the complementarianism that feminists have used to practice entryism into Christianity where the human are in the middle of voices there. But I am discussing, yeah, but I am discussing that those Christian values make families strong. That's all I'm saying. If we look at the cultures where marriages are more successful, where families are likely to stay intact, it's cultures where there's a lot of social and peer pressure from family members and from friends to work out your problems and to take your marriage seriously. And that means that you make better choices when you enter into it because you're not looking at, this is like, yeah, let's try this out and see if it works. This is a lifelong commitment. Those are the cultures that generally have happier marriages. They have that pressure around there. I tell people I have no fear of getting divorced because everyone that I know would probably, if I got divorced without any just cause, my friends wouldn't be friends with me anymore. Right. They wouldn't, neither would my family, neither would my wife's friends and family. Shaming works. Pressure to work things out. Good. I totally agree. There is a terrible situation that's going on with regards to young women as well. The analogy that I will lay upon the world, the track that I will lay down goes something like this, that the old saying that women are born rich and grow poor and men are born poor and grow rich, right? That's because women are born fertile when they're adults and so on, they're fertile and they're attractive and new bile and all that kind of stuff. And then of course they age and their eggs decline and all of that and 90% of the eggs are gone by the time a woman's 30 and 97% by the time she's 40. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, whereas men become wealthier and more experienced and we retain our fertility. I mean, certainly there's a decline in sperm quality but it's not the same sort of cliff drop that the eggs have.  And you tell them, hold on, don't sell, whatever you do, don't sell, don't sell, just keep playing that market.  Menopause is without prisoners, right?  Now we're of course out there saying, it's going to zero, it's going to zero, sell, sell, get yourself a good man, get yourself a family if that's what you want. But don't just wait, because it's going to zero. And all of the other crappy financial advisors who for weird pathological sadistic reasons want to profit off infertility are saying, no, no, no, you can do anything you want. You're empowered. It's like, yeah, but you're not a time traveler. You don't have that power, you know? You don't magically get to rewrite the laws of physics and biology. There is grandiosity, this female empowerment to the point where I can step outside the arch of time and will my eggs youth through science.  But why not just have kids for you young? You don't need all this science fiction. Oh my goodness. Well said. Listen, there are few guarantees in life, death, taxes and most certainly menopause. You're listening and watching the 90th edition of the Red Man Group. We are sponsored by the 22 convention. Hashtag make women great again. It's coming the spring of 2020. I think everyone here on the panel, with the exception of DDJ is going to be at the 22 convention next spring, certainly looking forward to that. Steph, I don't want to stay with you here. We see all the time, we see proof all around us. We see articles, we see documentaries that feminism living the feminist lie is indeed a lie. Like women see all around them that there are women in their 30s and 40s now freaking out because they don't have a man. Yet they continue to do the things that they do that's going to lead them down that path.  They continue, why do they ignore this stuff? Well, I think that women as a whole are somewhat incapable of being the kind of assholes that men are.   That is a bit more of a male attribute. And that's because we of course have to roll the dice. Like as I said in my speech, like 40% of men throughout history didn't reproduce. Right. And so, you know, roll the dice, man. This is why we're risk takers. This is why we've pushed the envelope and this is why we push back against social norms. So if you aren't going to get laid in history, which was again close to half of men, if you're not going to get laid, that's because of some prevailing social norms that exist, right?  So if you're not going to get laid anyway, you have a massive incentive to push back against the social narratives that stand between you and the treasured eggs, right? So pushing back against social norms is a perfectly valid, in fact, necessary reproductive strategy if you fit outside or don't fit inside the common social narrative. So us taking on social norms, which is basically moral progress, sometimes it goes wrong, of course, and you go the wrong way, but a lot of times you go right. You take on issues like slavery. It was a social norm throughout all of the 150,000 years of human history, slavery was everywhere all the time, no matter what.  And yeah, it took them half a century to get the institution overturned, but they did and thank goodness they did. And so all of this kind of progress comes from people who are pushing back against social norms. And because women were virtually guaranteed to reproduce throughout history, they didn't have a strong, they were always inside those social norms. They were always benefiting from those social norms. So what incentive do they have to push back against them? And this is why you get this kind of conformity. This is why I get tortured emails from women who say, I really, really wanna just settle down with my boyfriend and have a family, but all the women in my life say that that's betraying the cause and I'm gonna be depended on upon a man and it's gonna be awful and all the progress is going back and it's like becoming a 1950 step-wed wife. And of course a lot of men are like, well, people dislike what I do.  I'm a dude. That's kind of what we do is not care about what people say so that we can build a path to a more rational future because a lot of culture is not great. It's certainly the moment it puts the cults in culture, right? So women find it very, very hard to push back against social norms because biologically they were selected for their conformity with social norms, whereas men have a huge incentive to take the slings and arrows of rhetoric against the standing sophistry of culture and try and carve out a piece for their own future. Right, right. Well said, Stefan. Before I go to DDJ, Clarence W with the $15 Super Chat. I don't, it says CA, I'm not a currency expert. He says, you guys are, is that what that is? I'm not a currency expert, but I'm Canadian. Okay, very good. 15 Canadian dollars, I suppose. I don't know. It's like when you get those Super Chat in those weird currencies and it's like 4,000 and you're like, wait a minute, that's like a dollar 58. Yeah, right. Appreciate that anyway. He's emailed me from the Weimar Republic. Sorry, go ahead. DDJ, add on to what Stefan said. He said you had something that would dovetail. And then of course answer the question, why do women ignore the irrefutable evidence that feminism for them is obviously the wrong thing to do?  So that's number one. It's gotta be functional. Number two. It's gotta be functional. Yes. Right, right. It's gotta be functional. And number two, just because you don't fit in doesn't mean you can't spit on it and try again. And then number three, on a more serious note, I think that it's important to realize that even wives and married people are indoctrinated into promiscuity culture through this idea of culture and wife sharing and all these other different things. And I think I saw an article that was a reprint where they said, oh, give your wife a pass to cheat this Christmas. It was from like a couple of Christmases ago that people are reposting on social media and those types of things. Yeah, so I mean, all these things that really are attacks on the family, I think that they're extremely important. As far as women not wanting to listen to men when they have these conversations about the cold harsh truth, the reality is in my view, is that they see all these other women who appear to be successful and all these other women who have supposedly cheated death. Like, who's the lady from the Lean In author from Facebook? Cheryl Sandberg, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Cheryl Sandberg, right? They look at people like Cheryl Sandberg and they're like, well, she had it all. So here you go. And nobody realizes that Cheryl Sandberg was actually married until she became CFO and then her husband died. Yes, like she didn't divorce him. She didn't abandon him. Now, granted he died under mysterious causes, but we're not gonna get into that. Well, all I'm saying is, is that exactly? So all I'm saying is, is that when it comes to a lot of these women, you look at the women like the Taylor Swift's and everybody else and they're all saying, look, you could be a pro NBA star. You could be a rock star. You could be a musician. And all these women believe it because it feels good to believe it. And then they go out and they make these instant gratification style decisions. They get the dopamine hit from it and they're like, oh, this is what they must be talking about. And then they get addicted to the dopamine hits and don't forge strong relationships. And what I mean by strong relationships, I'm not just referring to romantic relationships or marriages or long-term commitments. I'm referring to strong relationships with family, with their mothers, with their fathers, again, that extended family. Because what happens is that, again, it's the culture of me as opposed to the culture of we. And so they see all these people out there and they're like, I can do that.  And they don't realize that all these people who play for the NBA or play pro football that many of them have degrees, many of them work their ass off to get there and many of them had to cultivate skill sets and relationships that these kids haven't ever been trained to do. And they've had to think in a way that these kids are not being taught to think. It's the same thing with women. Women think, like I said, they look at Taylor Swift, they look at all these other supposed feminist icons and they're like, I can be like that. And the reality is next to nobody's like that. Millennials can't even buy houses, okay? They're being replaced in droves by robots. And the reason that is is because their focus is more on gender studies majors than STEM. And they're not going into the trades. So we have a serious demographic issue here where not only are they not willing to listen right now and they're focused on the immediacy of their instant gratification, but they're not looking at the long-term at all. And so when the season changes and when winter comes, they are not ready and they're gonna be outside and the homeless epidemic is going to be drastically increased both psychologically and physically. Good, good, well, sorry. Just real quick, we have to have a society that works for more than the .0001% of people. We're totally agree. Athletic ability, looks great, singing voices, musical talents.  But that's like saying that the entire geography of Mount Everest is like three snowflakes on the top. And it's not, we've gotta have a society that works for everyone. And the socialists on the left, they used to at least pretend to care about the working class and for the millennials, what they did was they saw their parents. I guess my generation, I was in the software industry in the 90s and I got out because you could see this tidal wave of immigrants coming in willing to work for cheap, willing to work for less.  So, you know, we have a society now where the rich are getting super rich, the poor are getting poorer, or at least staying the course and the middle class is being hollowed out. Well, I don't want a Brazilian style, you know, top and bottom society with no middle filling. That's just a very unstable situation to get to. Yeah, you can't have the Twinkie without the filling, right? Yeah. Noah, let me get your thoughts on what DDJ just said. The proof is all around us, but then women girls, they look at people like Taylor Swift, Cheryl Sandberg, Kim Kardashian, basically celebrity sluts who appear to have it all. They've got youth or what appears to be youth. They've got money, fame, celebrity, and they have a family and girls think I can absolutely do this too. Why, where do they go wrong? When a girl ends up at 37 years old and single, no family, no kids, her womb is barren and she looks back and she says, you know what, Kim Kay did it. Taylor Swift is, or Taylor Swift is trying to do it. Why hasn't this worked out for me? Where's the disconnect happening for these women? Well, women are emotional amplifiers. So if they're fed some sort of an emotional signal, if it's out of four, they'll turn it up to an eight or a 10. And most of, you know, they weren't logic into this belief. Sure. They were emotionally manipulated into it. And then they end up in this echo chamber with other women or, you know, at university with their teachers as well.  And that's why it's so important events like 22Con that we go and we talk to them and we snap them out of that emotional state. I've had some people say, oh, you know, the message seems really strong and maybe it needs to be toned down a little, more soft and gentle for women. And we have a million soft and gentle messages for women. There are a lot of men out there trying to reason with women in soft and gentle ways and it's not working. And, you know, insanity is keeping doing the same thing over and over again when, you know, it doesn't work. We have to do something different. And we have to almost be a little shocking to snap them out. Yes. I mean, that's Step On's tweets about Taylor Swift. They got the conversation going. Some bland, you know, mashed potato explanation is not going to get any attention. No. They won't get traction and it won't convince anybody of anything. A lot of young girls have come to me. Well, women like it rough. Yeah. That they do. That they do. It's not generalized to that extent. I've had women DM me telling me to prove wrong. They want authorization to have, you'll get married and have kids and break against the popular culture slot that they've been put in where they have to operate. They want permission for that. They want someone to say, that's okay. You could make that choice. And they want a little bit of shock to get out of it. It's kind of like we have people in a cult. Feminism is a cult. If you have people in a cult, you cannot logic them out of the cult. You have to shock them sufficiently to get attention. And then you have to realize they're in the cult not for logical reasons. They're in the cult for emotional reasons. And you have to use that to pull them out. And we're hitting hard because we're facing a strongly entrenched concept and idea. And we're not gonna get that out by being overly soft and gentle. There'll be a time for that. There'll be a time maybe in the future there'll be female speakers at some event that you organize Anthony. Maybe there'll be a softer message at some point but it's not something right now. It's just gonna get lost in the noise. Anthony, we've got a call. We actually have two callers on the line, 404 and 24. We're gonna come to you guys in just a second. Anthony, what are your thoughts on why women ignore irrefutable truth, irrefutable evidence that living the feminist lie is indeed a lie?  So I have two things on it. The first is that the other panelists here have hit the nail on the head every single time that they hopped on this issue. So I only have so much to add in that direction but what I do wanna say is that women today, one of the reasons they keep doing what they're doing and they keep not listening to the evidence and these things like that and messages from the speakers here is there isn't an organized, and that's what 22 Convention is doing. There's not an organized counter feminism. And when we interviewed Mike Cernovich, George Bruno interviewed Mike Cernovich at the Patriarch Edition of 21 Convention earlier this year, they actually discussed that Mike Cernovich brought up that there's actually a total lack of what you could tentatively call like a hemisphere, like a man's sphere for women. There's nothing like that today. You know, for the man's sphere, we have all these messages from the men's rights activists, from the right-pill guys, from the MiG-Tah guys, whatever, and what we're doing. Well, let me add- That's a positive message for men. The reason why there's a man's sphere and not a hemisphere is because the culture today works for women, right? At least it works for them in the short term. Well, they think it does but it really just sucks them over in the long term. I mean, they're getting weeded out of the gene pool in the end, though.  And the culture is collapsing. Like what future does America, Canada and the West have with masculine women and feminine men 50 years from now? It has no future. You're talking about putting politics, economics- Venezuela. Yeah, it's total collapse. Like there's no future without family and femininity and masculinity. Basically men and women respecting their own nature as human beings. And that's been feminism has tried to kill that and it's done a really good job. With the lack of a hemisphere, we can only complain so much about the state of things today if we're not gonna do anything productive in reverse. Which I think we've done for men successfully and we're at the beginning, still the beginning stages of that building the man's sphere out. This is really positive though. It's going really well. But for women, they need that too. There is no organized positive message today for women. There's nothing. And that's what Mike Cernovich and George Bruner were talking about and that there needs to be that. And essentially 22 convention and make women great again is the first time it's ever being done. And it needs to happen not just once but many times every year an annual event something like that.  I actually went to when I went to Poland earlier this year scouting for the convention we later had in the summer the hotels and stuff like that. We walked into a Marriott where we ended up hosting the convention and there was like 300 women there for like a motherhood conference. It was an expo, it was all by having babies becoming a mother and it was always Polish women.  I would love to see that in America a lot more. And I hear that does happen in America from time to time but I've never even heard of it until then. But I wanted to just mention that in the Twitter engagements that I've been having lately it's really creepy the way that motherhood is talked about and I don't know if this comes out as sort of this, you know fifth wave feminist nonsense or whatever but the motherhood stuff is really creepy. In other words, they talk about motherhood like, oh, women are more than just incubators. They're more than just brood mares, you know like the some purposes is fertilization and egg production. Like that's how like a terminator would look at that and say, no, too cold. That's too cold. Like even my programming can accept that completely sociopathic view of women and the idea that motherhood is just breeding and popping out crotch goblins as they've been referred to which is tragically funny because you shouldn't laugh at it, but it's a little funny. I mean, it's absolutely monstrous. And to me, it tells you a lot about how these women in general, it's women who refer to this stuff it's like, well, would you refer to your own mother as just a breeding machine, as a brood mare as a robotic incubator of new species? I mean, this isn't the matrix for God's sakes. This is human beings where we invest in our children and train them in virtue and civility and reason and negotiation and the idea that having children is just like being some biological photocopier and then you walk away. It's like we're not freaking frogs for heaven's sakes. We tend to try and stay with our young, at least we're used to, but this view of motherhood as you're just being roped into like under his eye like some handmaid's tail nonsense that just being roped into breeding the next generation it's like, good heavens. What a monstrous view of parenthood and what a destructive view of family. I think that's overcorrection of the rhetoric. And I think that that is in response to the overcorrection to feminism. The mana sphere and the red pill doesn't exist without feminism. And feminism has just become so extreme. Just like Noah said earlier, if we're gonna get the attention of men we had to be extreme. Ergo, the mana sphere, guys like Stefan, Noah, Anthony Johnson, myself, et cetera, et cetera. So then women hear this overcorrection and they respond to the overcorrection with a disingenuous extreme example, right? Well, we're not just incubators and blah, blah, blah, but well, the reason why men use that kind of rhetoric is because women in the 60s and 70s, well, we only need men for their wallet and their sperm. So if they wanna reduce or sort of marginalize our biological importance, we sort of responded and said, okay, well, if you wanna use us for this, our money and our sperm, then we're just gonna use you for an incubator and now they're all butthurt. And now they wanna point their finger, well, you guys started it, no, sweetheart, like this has been going on since, like I said for the last six decades. So I think it's an overcorrection to the overcorrection, Nora, I'll give you the last word before we hit the phone lines here. Yeah, you were mentioning that there's no positive women's sphere equivalent to the mana sphere and that's because the mana sphere is men horizontally organizing to deal with something that we see as a threat, not just to ourselves but to the future of our civilization. Whereas the women's movements have always been top down. A very small elite, which is by the way, mostly men in certain positions of power controlling men through women. So they organize women and weaponize them against the masses of men. And this is why they don't have any kind of grassroots organization because their entire, their grassroots organization was the mother's PTA meetings and the mother's home associations that were in the church in the past. That was their grassroots movement. And they don't have that anymore. It's been completely destroyed by the synthetic top down movement. And you're absolutely right. Needs to rebuild something that women actually are somewhat in control of and that it's not a part of the manipulation that they're facing right now. And we have to have some empathy for women too. They're facing a ridiculous amount of manipulation and our, the boomer men didn't do anything to counter it. Zero, they did nothing. We blame women 100% for this. There were things that the boomer men could have done to counter this. There are things that they're, even their parents could have done to counter this. They had to wait till we came around in order to counter it. And even then, this is gonna be a multi-generational thing. This is something I got three sons. I'm preparing my sons for this. And this is not something that we're gonna have, it's gonna be men that are gonna have to take the lead in undoing this. And there are a lot of women who will join us. There's a lot of women. Let me just pull ball privilege for a second here. Which is before the internet, it was really tough to push back because the gatekeepers of the mainstream media was so absolute and so united. And the leftist communists long march through the institutions had been enormously successful. So prior to the internet, I was a novel writer. I wrote plays and so on. And they were incredibly well reviewed. One reviewer who actually had a PhD in literature called one of my novels that finally, we have the great Canadian novel and so on. Couldn't get it published to save my life because it was a pro facts about gender relations and had talked about fertility windows and so on. It was a very funny novel. It's called The God of Atheists, but you couldn't just couldn't get it out there. So for the boomers, there was this wall that's hard to perceive if you're like a post internet kid, because now of course, we could just have these conversations. They can go out to hundreds of thousands or millions of people over time. But in the past, man, you just, you couldn't get it out there. It was really, really tough, you know, where things I think could have been more helpful as you know, back in the fifties under McCarthyism and so on. But McCarthy did receive a lot of support and it's pushed back against the long march through the institutions, but it's really, it was tougher for the boomers. I have my criticisms of the boomers, but it's hard to know just how hard it was to get information out pre-internet. All right, let's go. Before we hit the phone lines, an issue in motherhood, I just wanted to say that feminism has gotten so radical and insane that traditional motherhood is like a new counterculture or it's becoming a new counterculture for women, which is crazy.    And like, no, it's a fiction that you would need electricity and massive amounts of science just to be used for living being Allah, Dr. Frankenstein.  Now you need like a PhD in physics and you need to stand on top of a black and white metropolis sounds that screaming, it lives. It lives. You may have wandered off the basics a little. All right, do you want to do some quotes? Yeah, yeah,<PHONE_NUMBER>. That's the number to call if you want to get it on the show, if you're calling from outside of the US at a zero zero one,<PHONE_NUMBER>. Let's go to area code 404. Area code 404, you're on live with the Red Men group. Go ahead. Hello? Yes. Oh, hello. I just want to say hello to Stefan, a big fan. And I just want to ask real quick, do you have any chance of a website I could find so I can keep listening without using my phone? Do I have a website that you can keep listening to without using your phone?  Just download the YouTube app and search Red Men group and you'll be able to listen and watch this live. Red Men group? Yes, the Red Men group, T-H-E Red Men group. There we are. All right, thank you. Okay, no problem. All right, let's go to area code 248. 248, you're on live with the Red Men group. Go ahead. Let's do some tech support. Yeah, right. Hey, what's up? Just wanted to stop in and say hi. Say, Molly, me, I love your work. Just be more red-billed on the timeline. That'd be nice. Get more engagement. I'm going to keep this quick. I'm going to leave out by saying women are not worth anything. Men, don't worry about them. They're cringe. They'll be able to get the members back to their... Oh, man. No, listen, first of all, we do have to listen to that kind of bitterness. Of course, I don't agree with them. I'm happily married. I've got a lovely daughter. Women are fantastic. Women are, as I've said for many years, delightfully incomprehensible. And, but yeah, the idea, there's a lot of bitterness out there. And I think we need to accept and absorb that and try and work with it because a lot of people, you know, I saw something in the chat where a guy said, you know, $100,000 for 50-50 fatherhood in legal bills.  And so, yeah, there is a lot of bitterness out there. And my initial impulses sometimes are just condemned, but, you know, we got to listen to that kind of stuff because these people are in serious pain. And the listening and the sympathy, I think really does help. DDJ, I want to come to you with the, well, sort of piggyback off of what Stefan says. If you look at the, look at your screen, Joseph poor. And I think that this, I think this attitude is prevalent among a lot of men. He says the female imperative and gynocentrism runs too far deeply in the West. I'm not saying lay down and die, but fighting it feels almost like a Sisyphean task. What are your thoughts about men who say, listen, man, women just aren't worth fighting for or trying to correct it. Feminism is too deep rooted, it's useless, it's futile. What's your response to that? Well, I'll be honest with you, two years ago, I thought exactly that.  And really, there's not a lot that's there. I mean, don't get me wrong. I am a man going my own way, but I was married twice. I do have four children. I do have two grandchildren. And I have both divorces. And I wish I had only spent $100,000.  And I used to think that, you know, I used to believe the feminist lie that to oppose feminism, you had to oppose women. And then I educated myself a little bit more and I realized, well, feminism's an ideology and there's just as many women who oppose it as there are men. And so, you know, as I educated myself and as I pulled myself out of this echo chamber, I started to realize that, you know, it's not that women are worth saving or not worth saving. I think that's a false frame. I think it's the fact that society is worth saving.  But yet that's exactly what's being taught.   You know, you have to be a productive, tax-paying, working individual. Well, part of that means that you need to, as an adult male, as a responsible male in your country, you need to involve yourself necessarily in politics. You need to vote. That's your civic responsibility. And I think that there are civic responsibilities that are here that are important. And I think that if we are to save society, not only do we need to save men, but we need to save women as well. And what I mean by that is, is saving them from the indoctrination. And one of the things I talked about in a video, I don't know, a few months ago, it's been a while now. I've been embroiled in this lawsuit, so I've been a little bit distracted. But I talked about the red pill blind spot. And the problem that you have, is that there are people in the manosphere who they have the t-shirt that says I'm red pill, or they have the t-shirt that says I promote men, and they don't. And what they do is they're promoting a cult of personality, and they're promoting this idea that, well, you know, nobody's worth saving, go ahead and brace the decline, and take as many black pills as you can. That's a mistake. That's a complete mistake. And I think that when you look at it from that perspective, you all of a sudden start taking it from a me versus them mentality, when the reality is, is that at the end of the day, it's like that movie in Beautiful Mind, you know? If we all work together, we all succeed. And that's the issue. I'm not talking about the socialist line by any stretch of the imagination, but what I am saying is, is that if we are to protect society, if we are to protect our culture, and I'm not discussing race here, I'm discussing culture, but if we are to protect our culture, then we have to do things to promote our culture. And if that means, you know, promoting women who get married and promoting marriage, and shaming those people who don't support the idea of marriage to protect the culture, at some level, that's what we have to do. And what you're seeing is, and like what Stefan has said, and I've been through this myself with two divorces, men are hurting because men have been indoctrinated since time immemorial, that their job is to be the provider, is to be the husband, is to be the father, is to be the one who promotes his family. That is ingrained in the male identity, not just culturally, but biologically. And so what happens is, is when your relationship gets destroyed, like my second marriage died after 21 years, that's a huge blow to your identity. That's a lot. That is a huge blow. Yeah, it's a lot of years. It's more than two decades.  And the problem with the family courts isn't that the family courts, I wanna make this abundantly clear too, it isn't that the family courts are inherently evil. It's that they are creations, they are the spawn of feminism and socialism, and they have been engineered by design to keep women off of welfare by divorce-raping men. And if you don't believe me, go look at Title IVD of the Social Security Act, okay? It created the child support enforcement system that destroys so many men's lives. And again, I'm not saying for a second that men should not be responsible for their children. I was a single father who raised my children by myself for over eight years. That's not what I'm saying. But what I am saying is that when we talk about this idea of these men who were super extremists, and they just hate women, the reason that they hate women is because they are in pain and they haven't processed it. It's that red pill rage. And I talk a lot about this in that not only is that red pill rage damaging, but the problem is, is that once you've had it, you risk going back into it because it's a form of PTSD. I think Anthony called it, in another stream we did, he called it complex PTSD. And that's really at some level what this is if you really wanna look at it from a psychological viewpoint. So while these men need to be supported, they definitely need to be challenged when it comes to some of this stuff because there are people out there that are misguiding men that are like, oh, we're not, you should leave women alone, you shouldn't talk to women, you shouldn't have female friends and all these other things. But these are the same men that in their discord servers are simping to traps and other unhealthy behaviors. So I mean, there's a lot of stuff that's going on here. And even though there's a lot of people in the MGTOW community now who basically they're misguided at some level because they're looking at the wrong enemy, the problem is that they're not doing themselves any favors by withdrawing from society completely. There are many historical examples of MGTOW men who before the term MGTOW was ever created, who contributed to society, who contributed to technology, who contributed to and did great things. But again, the idea that we should hate women at best is misguided. Well said. Let's at the phone lines here quickly.  Go ahead. Hello, this is Erie Code 970. This is John Davis. And I just wanted to call in. I've been listening to the previous conversation. I think what the gentleman was saying is very true. I think one of the biggest problems that we need to stop looking at men and women because that just divides us. The problem with divorce courts and what's driving MGTOW is a really inferior system of family courts that are run by poorly trained, poorly educated and incompetent judges. When they aren't able to ascertain what is the truth about accusations of abuse or things of that nature, they tend to just take a guess based on stereotypes and their own prejudices and biases. And I think that that is driving a lot of the problems between men and women because divorce should be a safe outlet for people to let themselves out of abusive relationships or relationships that become destructive. And what they're turning out to be is divorce is a destructive element in itself. In many cases, it's something that allows people to simply advance themselves in a game of marriage and what we call hypergamy, or it's a way of harming the other person by isolating them from their children or taking what their rightful earnings are over a period of life. And for men, that can be particularly devastating because men make long-term commitments in relationship with women. And they invest heavily early on in that relationship and throughout the entire extent of that relationship. So certainly when they're divorced, it's a form of alienation and certainly can create a post-traumatic stress disorder, but more commonly will create major depressive disorder that requires a lot of medical intervention and years of life intervention to reverse. That's a very good... Thanks for the call, Erie Code 970. That actually seamlessly segues into MJ812685's question directly for Stefan. Given what we just heard the caller talk about, he's so eloquent. I mean, I could not have put that any better myself. He says, honest question for Stefan. Are women even capable of becoming great again knowing their default nature? To my assertion, Stefan, that a woman's default programming is to self-destruct.  What are your thoughts? What's your answer to this question? Are women capable of regaining their former, I guess, greatness knowing their culture? Absolutely. Yes, absolutely they are. And the idea that there's some fixed human nature that exists independent of immediate incentives is a complete fantasy. What we are adaptive. Like I don't go to Jamaica and just burn up in my half Irish, half German crispy skin because I just put on some sunscreen for God's sakes. You know, we can adapt to our environments. And if you look at, I don't know, like a bunch of factory workers under Stalin in the 1950s, you'd say, well, human nature is to be lazy and unproductive and show up to work late and not care about the quality of your job. It's like, no, because they had no economic incentives to work hard. As the old saying went, we, we pretend to work and they pretend to pay us. So the idea that there's some, Oh, did we lose stuff on? Human nature that exists independent of. He's freezing up again. Yep. Okay. All right. All right. There we go. All right. Cool. All right. If I can play devil's advocate. Let me just, I'm so sorry. It's good to be annoying. Let me just finish my real point out. Be real quick. Okay, sure. The reason why female and male relations are so bad is because there's this massive amount of government debt, this massive amount of government spending that goes against the entire nature of the gender bargain. Right? The gender bargain is that the, the traditionally, right? The woman provides, you know, housekeeping and sexual access and raising children and transmitting culture and all of these wonderful things that women do and men in return provide resources. Now, of course, the government has stepped in and is forcing men to provide resources to women. They have no genetic relations to, no particular approval of and that is completely destroyed.  And so we don't have a situation where we can just look at female nature in the current system, in the current system of forced redistribution and say, well, you know, a woman has a huge incentive to divorce a man because she'll be massively paid to do so. She can destroy and harm him and so on. In the 1960s in Canada, you needed an active parliament to get divorced. What is female nature? I'll say, well, it's corrupt and hypergamy and monkey branching and promiscuity. It's like, yeah, go tell that to the Amish women where the divorce rate is 2%. Why is the divorce rate 2% among the Amish? Because there's no welfare state, right? So we can't, we just can't look at the current system that is heavily controlled by the state, forced redistribution, massive amounts of debt and say, well, that's female nature. It's like, no, that's not female nature. That's female adaptation to extremely corrupt and unsustainable system. Okay, if I can add on to Stefan's thing here, it's a little bit too. Stefan, almost like devil's advocate here, I've seen you talk in the past in some of your videos in your channel about the correlation and obviously correlation is not causation but correlation from women getting to vote in America to the national debt, just skyrocketed since approximately that time. So can you talk to me about the relationship between the insane national debt America's gotten into since someone got the vote with regards to what you were just talking about? Cause it seems to be a big thing. Like, can we even survive? Like you mentioned in your speech, can we survive peace and plenty as a species? And what about women voting? Is that, that's yet to be really seen if that's a good thing or not? Not necessarily. I mean, to go straight politics, I mean, I believe that the ultimate value in virtue of our society needs to be a society without a government. The government is the modern transition from slavery to tax serfdom and a government is immoral in the long run as slavery both was and would be in the present. So when you give women the vote, then women have particularly misaligned priorities relative to economic and social freedoms, right? So a man can abandon his children, a woman pretty much can't, right? And if a woman makes a mistake, if she marries the wrong guy and he turns out to be a drunk or a waste drill or a promiscuous or whatever and she's got two or three kids, she can't sit there and say practically, well, there are these abstract principles of private property and this and that. She's like, hey, man, I gotta feed my kids.  How am I gonna feed my kids? How am I gonna get my kids healthcare? They can't put those decisions off. Men in general can for right and for wrong. So men generally tend to deal in more abstractions and longterm planning and so on. But women have this conveyor belt of food and shelter and medical care and so on that they need to provide to their children and they can't wait. They cannot wait. A bachelor can put off eating, a parent cannot put off children eating.  And that's why you call the welfare state the single motherhood state. The welfare state is a single mother state. So when women get the vote, they want security over freedom. When men get the vote, they want freedom over security. And of course men bought the vote by being subject to the draft. What did women have to subject themselves to in order to get the vote? Well, nothing, right? I think it was Wyoming who just, it was a sausage, it was a sausage fest in Wyoming and they wanted to lure women in. So they just offered them the vote with no particular requirements. Well, a lot of women used to oppose getting the vote because they thought they'd get drafted. And then the feminists were like, no, we can get, we can get, we can have our cake and eat it too. What Stefan said, security over freedom, not getting drafted, that's a form of them wanting to stay secure. I totally agree with that. Noel, what are your thoughts on, because taking away women's voting rights, that seems to be sort of a red pill slash migtail battle cry. We take away women's vote, we take away women's right to vote, we get our country back. We get that. Just to be clear, not mine, I'm not making that call. To be clear, disclaimer, Anthony dream Johnson does not endorse taking away the women's vote. He does endorse taking away her virginity. Go ahead. Do they have a right to vote or do they have a privilege to vote? Rights are something you earn. You earned your rights, okay? You're able to hold and maintain them. That's a controversial view of rights, I think, but especially when it comes to positive rights, such as the right to decide whether your country goes to war or not, if you're not, if you don't have skin in the game, what did you do to earn that right? Right. Now, there's this binary take away votes or not take away votes. There are other alternatives. There are the option to have houses where, on things that women have skin in the game, they'd have a vote. Going to war, they don't have skin in the game. They, on average, as Stefan's pointed out before, they pay a net negative in taxes. So, men pay most of the taxes, women collect most of the benefits. Maybe they don't have a vote on saying how the budget is spent, or maybe their vote is proportional to how much taxes they pay. Or maybe just net taxpayers get the vote, which was an original system, right? Yeah, and let me jump in here too, because I think this is a thing that's kind of, it's been going around for a while. This actually started on TFM's channel a couple of years ago, okay? So, let's be real, and this is my view, and I agree with Stefan here. If you're a net taxpayer, whether you're a man or a woman, I don't think that we should be having the conversation should women be allowed to vote, or should they not be allowed to vote? Do you have skin in the game? Like Noah was saying, do you have skin in the game? Are you a net taxpayer? Do you contribute to society, or are you some sort of welfare recipient?  You're not going to vote for any kind of anything that's going to create any level of self-sufficiency. And anytime somebody requires you or wants you to have any level of self-sufficiency, or they want to have you have some natural consequences for your lazy behavior, that's a problem. That's why they voted all down. So I think that when it comes of who should vote, who should not vote. Number one, it should be net taxpayers, number two, it should probably be homeowners, people who contribute to society. We should stop giving everybody a participation trophy for not contributing to society. And we should start giving people who have skin in the game an opportunity to take the country back, because that's really what's been happening. It's not just happening in the United States, it's happening in Canada, it's happening in the across Europe, it's happening in Australia. And you have all these people on welfare and all they're doing is voting for more welfare and you're bankrupting an already bankrupt system. So when you have skin in the game, absolutely you should be able to vote. If you are a veteran and you have served in the military and you understand what the cost of war is, yeah, you should absolutely be able to devote for those particular things.  I don't care if you're male or female because I'll tell you what, I've known women who are doctors and who are lawyers and who are nurses and they're highly skilled in their fields. And those women, they contribute, they're net taxpayers, they should vote. They have skin in the game. Many of these women are very patriotic and so they support the military. They have children in the military. Their husbands were military or are military. And then you have these, there's men out there for lack of a better term, they have a drive, they're drug addicted or they've made poor decisions in their life and they can, and they're like, yeah, let's take away the women's right to vote so I can lord power over them. And it's like, no. Well, we also know the basic equation that women who are married tend to vote for smaller government and women who are unmarried tend to vote for bigger government because again, if a woman is married to a man, then her resources are generally coming from him which means higher taxes reduce her household income. Whereas of course, if a woman is single, particularly if she's a single mother, her taxes, her income is generally coming from the government so she has no problem with bigger government in fact it benefits her. And that's another reason why they wanna destroy the family is that you can get people addicted to state power which means they're gonna vote forever until a big enough system cause the whole house of cards to come crashing down.  It's my understanding that at least in America that well today voting is viewed as a right, right? We have universal suffrage, we have everyone, the right to vote, the right to vote, the right to vote. In America, in my understanding, voting was not always viewed as a right and early America this would have been viewed as bizarre. It was viewed a lot more like jury duty like a duty had to go do that was maybe not a pain in the ass, but it was not a right. It was more like a privilege or a duty or something. And so this modern conception of voting as a right which is a millennial is how I was raised. The idea, I found this out many a couple of years ago that voting wasn't always a right in America or wasn't even viewed as a right. The very idea would have been alien to early Americans. And so I think what Noah and these guys are talking about is a really good direction to go with things.  But in the meantime, skin in the game, skin in the game, skin in the game. This in franchise women, I wanna franchise almost everybody. Oh yeah, I mean. Molly was like, I got you one up motherfucker. We got Anarchy coming. Well, and let me add one other thing too.  It's a destructive force or something like that. I really think what it is, is I think that the feminist indoctrination, the socialist indoctrination, and this is happening toward men as well, is there indoctrinating these individuals to continue to be children. And what I mean by this, I'm a parent. I'm a grandparent. And what I mean by this is that when children grow up, as they age, they go through different phases in life.   You said you play peek-a-boo with your baby kid. And then eventually as teenagers, the kids become hyper-selfish. They become really cruel. It's all about me, who cares, whatever else is there. And they need that sense of ethics. Well, in their 20s, kids still continue to mature. Men and women, they're not completely adult yet. And so when they get pregnant and have children in their 20s, they still need help on how to be parents. That's why grandparents are so important. That's why aunts and uncles and community contacts are so important because your job as a parent doesn't stop when your children turn 18. It's not like you're clear and you're okay. It's time for me to get out. That's not it. You have to teach your children how to be married. You have to teach your children how to navigate those relationships. You have to teach your children how to cope with the early stages of childhood. These are brand new parents, they don't know. They can read all the books in the world, but unless they can talk to somebody who's been through it, who they trust and they respect, they're never going to get it. And so I think that when it comes to a lot of these scenarios that we're talking about, about this dichotomy, again, between men and women, as opposed to saving society. And I think they're two very different things. I think that we need to understand that at some level, part of adulthood is parenthood because you are still maturing and women who have children are better equipped emotionally and psychologically. And this is my own personal opinion here. I'm not citing any studies here, but it's my view that they are in a better position to be loving and caring to their husband, to the father of their children as well, as well as the other people around them. And I think at some level they understand the mutual idea of the benefit of interdependence as opposed to this rampant selfishness that's there. Well, sorry, just biologically speaking, the reason why there's such a thing as menopause is that periods and egg production and egg release and egg discharge, it really shortens a woman's lifespan. And one of the reasons why women live longer is because there's menopause. And the reason why there's menopause is that we need grandparents around, grandmothers around in particular that provide a lot of calories to kids. They provide a lot of wisdom. They provide a lot of resources. We are a multi-generational species and the tipping point for female fertility is when they can provide more value as grandparents than they can through shortening their lifespan by producing more eggs. Biologically, we are very much designed for multi-generational families. Real quick on DDJ, I need some clarification here. Before when you were talking about, hey, if you work at a gas station, you don't get a vote, I contend someone, Willie Thomas in the chat, took exception to that. He said, if you work at a gas station, you still get a vote. My assertion is that gas station is shorthand for someone who just doesn't have a job. I said, DDJ, if he feels like W-4, he pays taxes. So can you please, because again, yeah, let me address that. And first, let me start out by saying, holy shit, Donovan Sharp, anti-migtav, thank you for defending me. Number one, that's that, okay? I gotta put that out there. Good looking out. I take back half of what I said about you. All right, okay. Oh, trust me, it's a lot. No, I'm just like, look, if you pay taxes, if you pay taxes, so in the United States, for those who don't know, if you don't earn a certain amount of money, you don't pay taxes, okay? So if you don't pay taxes, and I'm not talking about if you're a single guy and you claim zero on your W-4 form and they take the taxes out, I'm talking about at the end of the year, if you're getting a tax refund at the end of the year, odds are you're not a net taxpayer. Or if you are, it's very, very minimalistic. If you're getting a tax return at the end of the year, you're not paying much in taxes. What I'm saying is, yeah, if you have a job, you have a W-4, you're probably paying taxes.  If you claim in zero, it's gonna be around 20%. I know I used to do tax resolution for a couple of years as a paralegal. But at the same token, at the end of the year, you're gonna get some of that money back.  Whether you work at a gas station or whether you work at whatever, I'm talking about the guy that works at a gas station for 10 hours a week and that's his only job. I'm not talking about the guy who works 20 or 30 or 40 hours a week who uses it to pay his bills, okay? I understand it. Like, this is not demographic shaming, is what I'm trying to say. Listen, you nailed it right on the head and that's what that was. That was a sneak-tip backdoor way of maybe like a demographic shaming.    Well, and let's be clear.  We're credit's due.  I accept that.  There you go. So there is that. There you go. Agree 100%. Noah, you wanted to... Oh no, I'm all the way behind. Stefan, we have one more call in the line. Do you have time for one more phone call? I certainly do. Okay, very good. Let us go to Erie code 678. Erie code 678, you're on live with the Redman group. Go ahead. Erie code. Wait, he's miming. No, no, this can't be miming, man. Oh, you're... Mime is money. Come on. Let's keep it moving. Right. Right, 678, we couldn't, we can't hear you. Maybe he's just, maybe he's just listening. I've actually got a question for Stefan and this is gonna be, this is an interesting question. Where does Christianity fit in? I'm not an overly religious guy, right? But I can admit that there are elements of Christianity that at least in old school Christianity that does promote traditional healthy masculinity within the construct of a marriage between a man and a woman. Donovan, were you raised Christian, if your mom asked me? I was, yeah, I was raised Baptist and then I decided to become Catholic and now I'm in sort of a transitional phase because everybody does that. But I do agree that there are...  Say again? Hey, hey, hey, I told you that in confidence, man. I can't talk about that. Let's talk about this. Make him come one pain over. But yeah, Stefan, where do you think Christianity falls in in terms of making women great again?  Now, I had good arguments and all of that but here's the amazing thing about Christianity is that the Christians returned with love, with love and I gotta tell you, man, it broke me in two. Like it just, it's such a beautiful thing to see that a group that you're criticizing significantly is returning with love. That's a very, very powerful thing and is kind of unique among certainly the sort of big three religions. So Christianity has this wonderful universality to it whereas other religions tend to be more in group favorite. Like, you know, if he's part of your team, he's good. If he's not part of your team, you don't owe him any moral obligations but Christianity universalized the in group preference moral rules of the Old Testament and this is an incredibly powerful thing. It's a great strength for Christianity in that love your enemies, but it's also a great weakness in that Christians end up being the most persecuted group in just about every society, even the ones that they found and supposedly run. So from that standpoint, with regards to male-female relations, you know, there's a lot of really hard one wisdom in the world that everybody just keeps forgetting. So it's a great economist, Murray Rothbard used to talk about this great learning that people would say, hey, man, let's have a cult and let's all live together in one big giant soup, we'll have a commune and you know, bathing is bourgeois, right? And it's like, next thing, you know, they've all got STDs and scabies. And it's like, oh, yeah, that's why they were those old rules.  Yeah. And now people are saying, like we're with not just with the me too, but with sort of this date rape suffering. It's like, oh, that's why there were chaperones in the past. Oh, that's why you had to keep the door open and one foot on the floor in your dorm room and so on, right? That's why there were real concerns about men and women working together in professional environments because of some power imbalance. So there are all of these old lessons that we had that were hard one by thousands and thousands of years of really, really tough lessons. And like in one generation, we're like, screw all that. We just completely throw them all out and start again. And now we're seeing the effects and we're like, oh, that's why we used to have those rules. And it's the same thing with male-female relationships. And there is a lot of wisdom in the Bible about male and female relationships. There is a lot of stuff that I would certainly not consider wisdom and stuff that I would consider the opposite of wisdom, but the idea that there is leadership in the family, listen, in the family for any relationship to work, just think about economics, right? It needs to be win-win, which means that some people need to be, need to have mastery in a certain area. And the way that the Bible says is, okay, well, the man may have mastery in certain areas, but the women are gonna have mastery in other areas. And that's the way it works in my marriage. I think that's the way it works in all productive marriages. There has to be a division of labor. If both people are trying to be men or both people are trying to be women, you get weird overlap and it's like a subway shop trying to do business with another subway shop. It's like, well, we're in the same business. Okay, how could we possibly enhance each other's situation? You know, if you got five bucks and someone has a pen and you want to trade it, then you both end up better off, right? You get the pen, he gets the five bucks, it's all beautiful. So when it comes to the division of labor, the more that we try and make men and women the same, the more we have a jigsaw puzzle with all the same size pieces that don't fit together anymore.  If they're the same, well, you can't have reproductive sex, right? And so we do need to look at some of the old wisdom of the things that women used to have power over, the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.  And this idea that men and women should just be the same is so catastrophic. It means that people are constantly bumping up against other people's expertise and specialties and so on. So there is clear authority for women in marriage. There is clear authority for men in marriage. I mean, you just start exploring that as complimentary jigsaw puzzle pieces that fit together well rather than this radical egalitarianism that takes away the division of labor and turns marriage into his constant battle over inconsequentials. Good, good stuff. We got area code 407 on the line, but before we get to area code 407, I wanna get Noah's thoughts on this. Are you religious, if yes or no, where do you think religion fits in terms of restoring women back, I guess to their former greatness, so to speak? I was actually raised to be a minister. I left that largely due to Stefan reminding me, do you wanna take your kid to somewhere where they're gonna see a lot of irrationality and you're gonna have to constantly explain to them that, oh no, what the other people believe is correct. So there is, I'm not religious at the moment, but the fact is, is that religion can have a very positive effect on people, but it will depend very much on the religion. So there are churches that are extremely pro-feminism, and then there are churches which are giving the traditional cultural norms that we've had that worked so well in the past that Stefan spoke about before. And so it's not will Christianity help, it's will the right kind of Christianity help. Ooh, there we go, there we go. It's too broad a category, there's thousands of types of Christianity, and churches that today have female lesbian ministers that wanna have Muslims praying in the church and are very pro everything that 100 years ago would never have been accepted in the church. I think you're referring to heretics. Yes, that sounds about what he's talking about, yeah.  You know, we talked earlier about can we save women? This is a blip in history.  Can you believe they really did all this stuff? I mean, how did they even survive this? You know, they'll look back on it the way we look back on the fall of Rome and says, and we say, how did they go from this to nothing? And then in reality Rome did rebuild and it became even more powerful in a lot of ways. So this is not a matter of can women be saved? We either they're gonna do it, we're either going to save them or we're going to end our entire civilization and not have any descendants to ask why we were so crazy. You know, the other thing I wanted to point out when we talked about skin in the game earlier, and then we talked about how married women with children vote differently. The reality is married women with children have a lot of skin in the game because they have to leave a world that's livable for their children. They have to leave a world that will have grandchildren. I, as a father, I don't think about raising my sons. I'm thinking that I'm raising the fathers of my grandsons. That's how I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about the next generation, not mine, but the one after the next. Sorry, I felt they need to clap on that one. Yeah, that's good stuff, man. Blue-haired cat mothers are not going to think the same way about the future as women who are holding actual babies in their arms.  And it's not just one, they transform. Every kid they have, they get deeper and deeper in. They're like, well, okay, there's no going back now. I've got three kids, four kids, there's no going back. And this is why they are encouraging women not to have children. It's the only way they can really manipulate them. The moment women have children, they become less manipulatable. Yes, yes. They have skin in the game. And this is why I think it's very important to encourage women to have children as young as they can. You know, young as it's healthy and legal and appropriate for them so that they can get out from that manipulation that comes at them from society at the earliest possible stage. Very good. So when women go into work or they start paying taxes, as they stay at home and raise children, the government has to pay for things. So it's simply an economic equation. No politician wants another politician to benefit from his policies down the road, which is why no one tackles the national debt or unfunded liabilities or pension schemes or anything like that. But you can convince women to go straight, well, straight into college where they pay for their own Marxist indoctrination and then straight into the workforce where they're contributing money to the government and they can be used as assets, as collateral for more debt.  So they don't want that. Wow, very good. Excellent. And if I can hop in on this and piggyback on the issue of make women great again, on the issue of saving women and if we don't not having a future, I strongly endorse that idea. I do wanna add that, you know, the idea of having the 22 convention make women great again and only having male speakers at the first event, that to me is symbolic of leadership, of masculine leadership.  So men have to lead, women want men to lead, women benefit from men leading in a family situation and beyond that. And that I think is what this convention is doing and men coming together for the first time in the West that I'm aware of at this scale and at this level to build these ideas out and build this media out. We're gonna publish all the speeches from the 22 convention, just like 21 convention, free to the world.  And that needs to happen, it has to happen. And if it doesn't, we don't have a future. I firmly believe that.  It's not gonna work in a family unit in a marriage in a relationship or in wider society. It's gonna fall apart. Independent of anything that happens positively with politics and economics and all this stuff, which I'm personally very much in favor of. I love seeing the stuff going on with Trump and all that in America, now in the UK and Brazil and all these places. That's not enough. It comes down to men and women getting along and being functional, not this extreme insane dysfunction that we see in the cult of feminism. It has to stop, it has to die, it has to end. And we have to build something positive, a positive future for women to look to, positive ideas and messaging and education. That's what we're doing with this convention. I think even Stefan's speech that he gave at the 21 convention was a precursor to that, incidentally.  And I'm happy to see it and I'll come to fruition now at the 22 convention. Okay, let's hit our last phone call of the day then we'll close out the show with a thought provoking question here. Area code 407, you're on live with the Red Man Group. Go ahead. Hey guys, Christopher Gordon here, calling from the Tampa area. Love what you guys are doing. I've been in this battle for six or seven years. One of the issues that I'm trying to take the fight to is the legislative in the United States. Just a quick fact here in the United States, it's one out of three children, 24 million are growing up fatherless. Over 40% of children now are born to unwed parents.   So I've been working with organizations and national parental organizations, Americans for Equal Share Parenting.  And I don't know how many phone calls I've taken from fathers that had a gun in their mouth. They're just saying, dude, I can't do this anymore. My paycheck in Sison, my house was taken from me, I'm couch surfing. I don't know what to do anymore. And it's just, it's absolutely heartbreaking. But I guess the purpose of this call is to let you guys know that whether you're married or unmarried fathers, we're fighting back and we're fighting back to where I believe the change can be made. And that's with our government. And I love you, Stefan, because you're kind of like a dad to me. And I know you guys got issues in Canada. And I was doing research on single motherhood and that's how I found you. Like got connected to conventions 21, but I just want to let you know that the national parenting organizations, Americans for Equal Shared Parenting are probably some of the top notch organizations that are fighting for fatherhood and just want to see what your thoughts were. Wow, some, thanks for the call in 970 or 407. Yeah, there's some raw emotion there, man. Like that guy right there, that is the result of gyno-centrism. And here's the thing, man, most men are not outwardly in pain.  Most men suffer in silence. So Stefan, I guess he addressed it to you. What are your thoughts on what he just said? Well, first of all, brother, I absolutely admire the passion and depth that you bring to this. That is a huge amount of compassion for men, for families, for children and for the women who are falling into the pit of propaganda and coming out as very, very unhappy people. So, you know, I just, I really, really respect the depth of passion and emotion and commitment that you're bringing to this issue. And, you know, it's great to be emotionally available. You know, isn't that what people say about men? Oh, but just not emotionally available. But then when we become emotionally available about inconvenient things, suddenly we are just, you know, simpsons and whatever, right? So, you know, the passion is incredibly admirable. The depth of feeling is powerful and I, you know, never lose that. That is, you know, incredible. And, you know, it's a tough thing to go on a show with your voice breaking, to be emotional, to be passionate and to get the inevitable eye rolling from people who aren't in touch with their feelings, not understanding how powerful it is, what it is that you're doing. So, you know, massive kudos, admiration. I bow down before the passion of your manly self and I really, really do appreciate that. And I don't really have much to add other than you are a man with a mission.  And the fact that men are calling you in this extremity and hitting your depth of passion and empathy is literally life saving, literally life saving. And however horrendous the situation is that you have found yourself in, which sounds horrendous, that other men have found themselves in, you can walk proudly through this life and go to your grave knowing that you have been a literal lifesaver for, I don't even know, hundreds, thousands of people who have listened to you, who've listened to things you've done on the internet, who are even listening to this. So that is a life very, very well lived. And if there was a medal for masculinity, you'd fall over because you'd be weighed down with so many. Yeah, the name of the movie that you're referring to, I believe is called the Hacksaw Ridge. That's the one, that's the one, yeah. And a lot of things we teach here in the Manisphere in terms of traditional masculinities to be emotionally stoic and never let him see a sweat. I endorse that 100% but there are exceptions. In my mind, a man, there aren't too many things in this world that a man should outwardly share or shed tears for. Children is absolutely one of them.  Whatever that guy went through, like it was front and center. You could tell that he either lived it or he is living it. Well, I just want to shut that down too because it's powerful. It's powerful, it inspires men.    And that inspires people. That makes them change their decisions about how they're going to live and what they're going to do, who they're going to vote for, how they're going to spend their money, what they're going to do and stuff. And it makes me want to be careful about who they marry. That's right. You see that on the other side. People, this 50% statistic is mostly garbage. If you get a woman who shares your values you've known for a while, you don't have promiscuous sex. She's not been hopping around the circus, so to speak. You can get your odds of divorce down to single digits. And it's all about the preparation.   And a lot of that has to do with men not getting advice, men not talking to each other about red flags, about problems, about statistics, about who's risky to marry. It doesn't give you a guarantee.  It's all about reducing the odds. There are no guarantees in life but you can certainly at least mitigate risk at the very least. I'd like- Hang on, Collar, I just saw your area code was 407. You said you're based in Tampa. 407's actually in Orlando area code phone number. I hope you come out to the 21 convention patriarch edition, the fatherhood edition coming up in Orlando, Florida. That's going to be going on at the same time as the 22 convention. The two events are going to co-occur in the same venue. So come out to that event and you'll meet hundreds of other fathers like yourself that have been through a lot in most cases or many cases. But you'll find like-minded men with shared values and visions and goals in life. I know they're really, really good time. So that's the 21 convention. Let me just add one other thing to the caller. I know that when you're going through this kind of stuff, money can be kind of tight.  I'll cover your ticket cost, man. All right, because that was a beautiful thing that you said. Very, very cool. I'll cover it to you then, whatever. You can volunteer. We'll get you in there no matter what. Yep, good, 100%. So that dovetails to the last question of the day, just based on what that last caller talked about. I'd like to maybe just ask like a broad spectrum kind of question here. Obviously there's a lot of work to be done in my mind. And I'm a cynical type of dude. I was very, very, I used to be very optimistic when I was young. Life has a way of sort of leveling that out. In my mind, women will not embrace traditional femininity until I'm six feet under, right? Well, after I'm dead and gone. The cold is creating some perverse incentives for other people. I don't know. I don't know. So what are your thoughts? Like to me, the culture isn't gonna change in my lifetime. So step on, convince me I'm wrong. If you disagree, convince me I'm wrong. If not, give me a timetable if there is indeed a timetable. I'll make this a round robin question. Yeah, listen, it's too late and the corruption, the mental corruption is far too embedded for us to win through mere arguments. And what I mean by that is the incentives, the half of the people in the West are dependent upon the government and you're not gonna be able to talk them out of that dependence anymore than a guy who's won a million dollar lottery ticket and you say, well, you shouldn't really cash that in because that's really just debt and it's gonna impact other people and it's gonna cause more unfunded liabilities. You can't really do that, right?  The incentives are so perverse now that it's gonna just have to play itself out. And what matters is when the government does run out of money that we correctly identify that it's not freedom that failed but coercion. It's not volatilism that failed but violence. It's not the free market that failed but massive socialist redistribution and debt. And so when the crisis comes, we need to bounce in the right direction. We need to bounce back to freedom. We need to bounce back to responsibility. We need to bounce back to a more universal acceptance that the non-aggression principle do not initiate for us. So if you're hoping that mere arguments can undo institutional decay that's been going on, really you could argue since the government took over schools in the 1850s, that's asking quite a lot of mere syllables and language. But if we accept that, look, the crisis is gonna come. And the government's gonna run out of money. And if we have put out enough, if we've predicted it, been correct about it and we have correctly identified the causes, that is the best chance we can possibly have to use the bounce to get back to a better place. If we miss that bounce, man, but the technology we've given governments tyranny could last. I remember reading once a science fiction story that claimed that the society portrayed in George Orwell's 1984 lasted for 9,000 years. Wow, Jesus. Because think of the amount of technology that say the Chinese government has with facial recognition, with social credit scores, with tracking everything that everyone does. Think of the amount of electronic currency that's out there outside of like more anonymous cryptos and so on, just how much they can track you on your phone, on your computer, with every camera known to man. The amount of surveillance technology we've given the government through the free market is truly astounding. If we bounce the wrong way, it might even be longer than 9,000 years. It's pretty important. So predictive power and having the right remedy for where we are inevitably going to go, I think is the best hope that we have right now. Okay, Noah, let me kick up to you. What are your thoughts on a timetable if such a timetable exists? I'm a link in an infinite chain going back to the first man and forward through my sons into eternity. So if this takes a few generations, I'm okay with it. What's important is that you have to have contingency plans. You have to say, if I can't change civilization during my lifetime, how are my sons going to find wives? How am I going to ensure that my descendants have a healthy life, that they have a community they can rely on? And you have to create your own options, your own alternatives for, we may not be able to save society in the way that we expect it to be. It might be a different kind of solution than we're expecting. And almost certainly, technology is going to cause us to, cause the breakup of large polities. We are probably going to speciate, separate and define ourselves into smaller groups. We're doing that online already. And what's happening online, we'll get mirrored in real life. There are many groups where people are getting together and forming their own convent communities and things like this where they, they're separating a bit away from the negative aspects of popular culture. Yeah, yeah. If this takes 10 generations, what I'm going to create is a family that can last these 10 generations and ride it out and last another million generations. You know, this is not a, fighting evil is not something you do and then it's done. You know, it's not- It's a growing thing all the time, yeah. Men are very event-orientated. We want to get the event over with and get it done. It's how we think, we think. I mean, I got my work that I got to get done today this month, this year. And we think like that. We need to think of it more as maintaining health. We need to maintain the health of society. And it is an ongoing struggle. The parameters in which we're functioning will continue to change. And so our strategies will have to change. Stephon's absolutely right. We're not going to logic them out of it. We're going to have to probably put options on the table, which we may not like at the moment. There's definitely going to have to be, you know, our children may have a hard blow of things and we're going to have to prepare them for that. But like I said, it's the most dedicated that win. If that's us, we're going to win. There's no guarantee. You said earlier, there's no guarantee but death and taxes and menopause. But you know, there's no guarantee that we're going to win, but if we don't fight, there's a guarantee we're going to lose. That's true. Yeah, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, right? Yeah. DDJ, what are your thoughts on my timetable?  Do you think this is going to change in your lifetime? What chances do we have to actually see this sort of generational paradigm shift in terms of traditional femininity and masculinity? I'm going to say some things that might end up being unpopular, but I think that they deserve to be said. Do it. First and foremost, you know, when everybody talks about this idea of this multi, I mean, we talk about these multi-generational changes. I mean, that's what communism focuses on. They never focus on, we're going to change at this generation. It's incremental changes. It's multi-generational incremental changes. That's where communism thrives. The reason feminism came into power, the reason socialism came into power had in large part to do with this multi-generational entryism that they did, but it also had to do a lot with lawfare. And what I mean by that is, is that they filed strategic lawsuits to create disruptions in this system. And they did that in a way that the conservatives don't do it. Everybody has this aversion to the conflict that is a lawsuit. And I have a legal background. So the reason I bring that up is because it's like you said, if we don't fight back, we don't get anywhere. And let me give you a prime example, and I'm going to use this to show my own situation a little bit, but only because it's an on-point example. YouTube recently changed its terms of service to where if they don't think that you're commercially viable, they're going to shut your channel down.    Well, like Stefan has said, so eloquent rules are not enough. We are talking about complaining about all these concerns and they're saying all these arguments about it, but argument is not enough, which is why I filed my lawsuit against Google because I believe that when it comes to being an American citizen, that censorship based on hate speech is national origin discrimination against me as an American. And I also believe that their Section 230, it gives them a type of high-tech sovereign immunity and they don't deserve it, which is why I'm challenging the traditionality of that law. High-tech, so. Yeah, that's, I've never heard it put that way before, but that makes sense. It's exactly what it is and that's why when you see, listen, it's the only explanation for why Google and YouTube and all these big tech establishment organizations are entering into contracts with countries. In their hubris, they've entered it, and if you look at my lawsuit in the second amendment complaint, I go into detail and I show examples with exhibits of how they have signed contracts with the European Union, how they've signed contracts with 17 different countries, okay? These are not contracts, these are treaties. YouTube thinks it's, and Google think they're a nation unto themselves. They think they are their own sovereign. You don't fight back by that, by just having argument alone, you have to bring the fight to them, but you can't make the same mistakes that everybody else made. You have to try something new, even if it has a high risk of failure. And that's what I did and that's what I think that all men at some level should do using their own skill sets and using the knowledge and the communities they have. If we're going to fight back against this socialist tyranny, which really is what feminism has become. Yeah, oh yeah. Okay, if we're going to fight back for that, we have to actually do it. So, another example, so even though I filed a lawsuit against Google and that kind of thing, what nobody knows because nobody's reporting on it, is that we filed a preliminary injunction. For those people who don't know, that's a restraining order. And we're asking the court to block the enforcement of the commercial viability clause and we're asking the court to rule that Google and YouTube can no longer enforce hate speech censorship in the United States. Now, that is up for hearing. Google has till December 23rd to respond to it. So, there are things that are happening, but the problem is, is that no one is really willing to have these conversations because they're very difficult conversations to have and a lot of people are afraid that they're going to be censored as a result. Let me tell you something. The original signers of the Declaration of Independence, every one of them came to a rough end because they were all targeted and they had their lives destroyed as a direct result. And from a family law perspective, I have worked in family law since the middle 90s. I was an activist. I was a men's rights activist. I did do a lot of those things before I started seeing of what was going on.  Every day, just like that previous call or did on incremental changes, we have to move the overton window back. And the only way that we do a combination of communicating like this through a combination of fair lawsuits to fight this sort of thing. As another example, in the United States, we have a total of where we're about not only the feminist machine, but through filing a recon in April of this year between March and April. So we already have these things planned. There's a group of people out there who want to turn the overton window back. And what happened in our time, I don't know if it's a phenomenon. He threw that pebble in the pond and in his lifetime, it wavered all the way around and it changed the world as we know it to where now it's not whether or not you've ever heard of martial arts. It's what martial art did you study? It becomes common language because somebody like Bruce Lee and he dedicated his life to it and he made the right decisions to move the overton window so that people would receive that education. And I think that today, if we want to move the overton window, we can't continue to do the things that have been done that don't work. There has to be a new conceptual level of thinking. And frankly, the best way to do it is to create these new legal issues, file these lawsuits in addition to bringing attention to them so people understand that there are people fighting them. And I'm not saying push mine. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying all the lawsuits go out there that are filed in the name of freedom that are trying to protect freedom of speech that are trying to protect and stand against, protect against and stand against socialism. Those are the things that we need to be having the conversations about. But the problem that you have is that when the socialists come, everybody complains about it. But I can tell you right now, a blind man can see the problem, but it takes a man with vision and with solutions because solutions require risk and most people aren't willing to do that. Very good. And if you guys want details on DDJ's lawsuit against Google, I put the link in the chat and I should actually, we'll actually put it in the description. It's misandryday.com slash luish slash luis dash versus dash Google. So that's misandryday.com slash luis dash versus dash Google. If you guys wanna get the updates and details on that. Anthony, I'll give you the final word on your timetable. Thanks. Yeah, this is something I first addressed the timetable issue back in 2017 and my keynote address at the 10 year anniversary of the convention. The title of that's on YouTube as well, the speech. It's called the future is masculine. And I do believe it's gonna take decades to undo the damage if feminism is done. It's taken decades to get this bad. It's taken a hundred years in some sense. So can it happen in lifetimes? Look, I'm the youngest, most optimistic dude on this panel. Well, I don't know about the most optimistic, but I'm certainly the youngest, right? And I've not been embittered by the world almost at all yet. So I do believe it can happen in our lifetime. I do believe that free speech is still alive and pretty well. I think the guys like DDJ and others are fighting back as well as, you know, in panels like this or individual platforms. Each one of us has tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands. And in Stephon's case, millions of followers. They're listening to what we say to the extent that we survive and remain online and don't get shut down like Alex Jones or something like that. Oh, Jesus. So yeah, it can happen in our lifetime. What I mean by that is, you know, specifically look at the internet and look at events that have yet to come that will have major impacts on these issues that we just don't see coming, black swan type events. Look at Donald Trump winning the presidency.  Just seven years ago. That has been a major world event, I said, beyond our country. And so far, it's been changing the course of American history and therefore Western history. Well, the sims are going to happen. Yeah. Well, so I think that, you know, things are going to happen that we don't see coming that are major and that the speed of communication, the internet, to the extent they survive in some form that they do now, maybe get better, maybe get a bit worse, we'll see. But as long as free speech remains relatively alive and, you know, these events happen, maybe for example, the invention of male birth control that we can take, hopefully not a pill, but maybe some sort of like injection or something like that. I've seen, you know, announcements on that and the articles. That's all jail. Yeah, things like that. That could be a major thing that happens alongside a major pushback against feminism that's organized and that's educational and positive. Like we're building now for women, as well as the manisphere and for men and for fathers, like we're doing with conventions and meetups and podcasts and channels and all kinds of books and things like that. So there's a lot of positive things that are going to happen. There's some negative things are going to happen too that we don't see coming, but I'm optimistic and I'm hopeful. And I think America is one of the oldest republics in the world. It's survived for a long time. We have a very powerful founding and that was a very difficult battle that are the founding generation one. And I think the battle before us is probably not even that difficult. So something greater has already been achieved just in this country. So this can be done and I'm 31, so I think it'll happen in my lifetime. I'm hopeful that it does, probably a bit biased. But yeah, let's fight. And like, you know, it's a fun to know what we're talking about. I think if we don't fight, we're totally fucked. You know, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. So fight and fight, fight as hard as you can and win.  I still have to find you this, you know, go over this issue as well on the red man group at the convention. He's pushing back against some cynicism and stuff from the other panelists. And I can very much concur with what he was saying there and you guys will see that in the episode that comes out later. Optimism feels good, man. It feels good to be optimist, to be optimist. But not to this point of delusion or your own dishealth. Like I understand a serious feminism is. Yeah, listen, delusional optimism is very, very dangerous but having a realistic form. Like I give it, I honestly, I'd give anything to feel that way again. I just, I guess I just need to see and just be in it a little bit longer. No. More conventions. Yeah. The reality is every man in this panel is a fighter. We would be bored to death if there was no evil to fight. Right. The reality is what place would we have in society if there was no evil to fight? No, I totally agree. And with that, that is going to draw the 90th edition of the red man group to a close. Listen, this was an unbelievable discussion. My thanks to all of the panelists. Stefan Malinu, again, you guys can go to his website, freedomdomain.com. At Stefan Malinu is where you guys can find him. Sorry, freedomain.com. Oh, I'm sorry, freedomain. I see freedomain. Free domain, not freedomain.com. Freedomain.com. At Stefan Malinu is where you guys can find him on Twitter, FDRURL.com, forward slash Hong Kong is where you can find his documentary on his visit to Hong Kong and the protest one on there.  Thank you very much for making time for us this morning. SMV4K.com is where you guys can find his website at no-revoid, just like it's spelled, just like it's on your screen. Here's where you can find him on Twitter. DDJ, as always, bring in the thunder, bring in the pain, missandrytoday.com is where you guys can find his website. And again, I put the link in the chat. I'm gonna put the link in the description if you guys want regular updates on his lawsuit against Google. Of course, Anthony, thanks for putting this panel together. That is going to do it for this edition of the red man group. We thank you all for joining us. We will see you the same time next week, and we're out.