Hello, everyone. Welcome. I'm Elsa Huxley from Heritage Preservation, and we're so glad you're joining us today. I'm just going to give a quick introduction to the community in these webinars, and then we'll move on to the content for today. Heritage Preservation is moderating the Connecting to Collections online community in cooperation with the American Association for State and Local History and with funding from the Institute of Museum and Library Services. The site is designed and produced by Learning Time. The goal of the online community is to help smaller museums, libraries, archives, and historical societies quickly locate reliable preservation resources and network with their colleagues. In developing the community, we have drawn on many resources that were developed for the C2C initiative, including the bookshelf and the Raising the Bar workshops and webinars, and links to these resources are filed under the topics menu on the site. We will also file a recording of today's webinar there. About twice a month, the online community features a particularly helpful preservation resource and hosts a webinar related to it. The resources we posted for today's webinar can be accessed by clicking this photo on our web page www.connectingtocollections.org. So today, it is my great pleasure to welcome our featured expert, Christine Wiseman. She is the Preservation Services Manager at the Georgia Archives. So thank you so much for joining us today, Christine. Would you please tell us a little bit about yourself? Sure. Thank you for having me. It's great to be here today from Atlanta. It's a little cloudy today, but warm. Good nice spring day. And my name is Christine Wiseman. I'm the Preservation Services Manager at the State Archives of Georgia. We are in Mauro, Georgia, just about 10 miles south of downtown Atlanta. I've been in this position since 2002. Prior to that, I was the Field Services Officer with SOLAMAT, which is the Southeastern Library Network, which is now lyricist located here in Atlanta. I have an MLIS in Specialization and Preservation Administration from the University of Texas at Austin. And I'm also doing some other online teaching. So this is good practice for me. I'm going to be teaching a course at Clayton State University online in the fall as part of their new master's and archival studies program. So anyway, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. Thanks so much, Christine. Alrighty, well, we were going to start off with doing a couple of polls to kind of give us an idea of who our participants are today. I'll start pulling those over. And then when we move on to the presentation, here's our first question. Are you a conservator? And these next questions sort of follow those. If you said, no, you're not a conservator, obviously. These will start to apply here. Do you have a conservator on staff at your institution? Have you ever hired a conservator? And then our last one here. Have you ever met a conservator? OK, so let's take a look here. The majority are not a conservator and do not have a conservator on staff at their institution. Which is pretty much what we expected, right, Christine? Yeah.  And almost everyone has met one.  If it's the cost or if it's knowing where to start when selecting one or not having any in your local area or anything like that. So if you have a response to that, if you could type it into the Q&A box there on the left, where we've all been introducing ourselves, that will also be helpful. I'm going to pull the polls away now. I think we're done. And we can go ahead and get started. Thanks, everyone. Expense money. Now, if you write anything in there into the Q&A box, that's a question, and we don't address it in the presentation. Don't worry. We'll pull them off to the side, and we will definitely address them at some point during the webinar. And here we go. OK. Thank you, Elsa. It looks like from what I'm seeing in chat, we have all the reasons we mentioned. A couple of people mentioned expense, which is certainly and I will address that. Matching your needs with the resource. So we are going to touch on all of these topics today. The goal of this webinar is to help primarily smaller institutions determine when, how, and what to expect when working with an outside conservator. However, if you're with a larger institution and if you're with that small percentage that may have a conservator on staff, in some cases, you may still need to occasionally contract with an outside conservator for large or more complex jobs. Today, I'm going to start with providing some context to this discussion, some definitions. And we will also discuss instances when the conservation may be necessary. Provide tips on how to find a conservator and discuss what to expect when working with a conservator. And talk about all of the expectations you may have in that process. So again, it's great to be here. Thanks to Heritage Preservation for organizing this webinar. And feel free to type questions into chat throughout the discussion. And we will have time at the end as well. And Elsa will monitor the chat. I may not be able to do that many things at once. So for some context, I like to define preservation versus conservation, because the way these terms have been defined over the years in this field has changed and varied a little bit. So to make sure we're all on the same page, I tend to refer to preservation as the umbrella term. The range of activities an institution undertakes to extend the life of its collections. It's all of the activities. Conservation is one of those activities that may also include environmental control, collections care, proper storage, emergency preparedness. And again, conservation, which is more the physical stabilization or treatment of your collections that become damaged, whether some deterioration or poor storage, or whatever reason. So I also like to think of it as using a medical analogy. Preservation is like eating right, taking your vitamins, and exercising to keep yourself healthy. Whereas conservation comes into play when you get sick, you've got to go to the doctor. So it's the physical stabilization or treatment of individual items or groups of items. OK, restoration, this is another term that may pop up here and there. It's similar, but there is a difference. Restoration tends to imply treatment, physical treatment, but with the goal of restoring an item to its original appearance.  I tend to feel that the focus of conservation should really be on stabilization rather than on restoration. And this is particularly true in libraries and archives. Maybe a little different in museums, but in the library and archival setting, our goal is to stabilize items. They're not new. We don't necessarily want them to look like they were made yesterday. They have a history to the item. And maybe they've deteriorated a little bit over time, but we want to ensure that they're stable. They're chemically and physically stable, but not necessarily restored to their original appearance. So that's a distinction. Conservators. We talked a little. Everybody's met a conservator. Conservators are the professionals who perform the actual treatment of these collections of cultural property. Over the years, conservation evolved out of the trade profession, but as the field has become increasingly scientific and technical, graduate training is becoming much more common. However, many practicing conservators were apprentice trained under another experience, conservator, which is completely valid. Conservators tend to need a combination of a unique combination, I think, of artistic skills along with some scientific training and background. So it's really a profession that requires the eye of an artist with the analytical skills of a scientist. And it does take many years of training, whether it be a graduate level training or apprenticeship practice. So there are many specialties. And this is due in part to the increasingly in a technical nature of modern conservation. Conservators tend to specialize in a particular type or object. And you can see them listed here on this slide. Sort of like doctors come very specialized today. They can specialize in paintings, works of art on paper, just in books, photographs, even electronic media. Textiles is another specialty. Furniture, ethnographic and archaeological objects, decorative art. So there's a whole host of wide range of specialties. And the techniques within these specialties, there's some overlap here and there. But they can be very, very distinct and very different. So it's very important to match a conservator's area of expertise with the object you want treated. So obviously, you may not use a furniture conservator for a work of art on paper. And I would also say be a little suspect of a conservator who claims to have expertise in many of these specialty areas, because it can take a career to become specialized in just one of them, because it has become so technical. OK, so I'm sure many of you have heard of the AIC, the American Institute for Conservation of Art and of Historic and Artistic Works. It's the full title. This is the professional organization, membership organization in the United States for conservation professionals. Its members include conservators, of course. Educators, scientists, students, archivists, librarians. Really, anyone interested in the field of conservation can be members of this organization. Tends to be US-based in Washington, DC. But there are members from many countries around the world that are members of AIC. So it's a great organization to be aware of. And we'll go to their website in a little bit. One thing that's important to know about AIC is they have established a code of ethics and standards of practice for conservators. And this is important. This sets forth the principles that guide conservation professionals and others in the care of cultural property. So there really is a certain ethical responsibility inherent in the care of cultural heritage collections. So that's one role AIC has played. Also, something to be aware of, in the US there is no certification for conservators. There's no licensing or certification. So in theory, anybody can call themselves a conservator. And if you're going to hire a conservator to work on valuable and important objects from your collection, you want to be sure they're qualified. So one way to do this is through membership in the AIC. And I'm going to talk about the different levels of membership because on one hand, anybody can join AIC if you're just interested in conservation, which is part of the service they provide. But there are other categories of membership that are a little more selective. I'm going to describe those. The associate level is the category that's open to anyone who's interested in the field of conservation. There's also an institutional category and a student membership category. So the associate category will include practicing conservators, people new to the field, as well as all these other groups I mentioned. You could have museum curators, art historians, librarians, archivists, people that aren't doing treatment but are interested in conservation.  A candidate for professional association status must have earned an undergraduate degree and completed at least two years of basic conservation training and also have three years of experience in their specialty area beyond that training. So it requires more experience and training. And then to become a fellow, that's the most selective level. You must have a minimum of 10 years of experience after your training and have been a professional associate for two years. There's also a peer review process to becoming a fellow. You have to submit evidence of your work. You have to show that you've published and done research. So this is a very highly selective level of membership. So keep these categories in mind when you're considering contracting with a conservator. Be sure to check if they are active in AIC and then find out at what level. Where do conservators work? Typically, they are found in larger institutions that have large collections and funding to be able to support a full-time conservator on staff. So that tends to be larger museums, research libraries, archives. This is a picture of our building here at the Georgia Archives. And we are very fortunate to have a conservator on staff. And some institutions have more than one, several. But of course, as we saw in the poll, that is not the norm. So that is one place you can find conservators. Also, there are regional conservation centers around the country that offer certain conservation treatment services. Some also can provide education and preservation surveys and outreach. They tend to employ many conservators in a variety of disciplines. These centers tend to be very well-equipped and are really a great option for contracting for treatment. Now, if there isn't a regional center in your area, you may have to actually transport or ship your materials to them. Some of them, in fact, will actually pick up items. Now, how do you find those? One way is through a group called WRAP. If you see up on the slide, that's the Regional Alliance for Preservation. And they have a website. This is a national network of conservation organizations that also have field service programs, which is the outreach component. And many of those also do treatment. And they're members of an organization called WRAP, which is the Regional Alliance for Preservation. There are also other regional conservation centers that aren't part of WRAP. And they're part of a group called ARC, the Association of Regional Conservation Centers. So take a look and see if there is a regional center in your area. And then another option is conservators. Some of many of them work in private practice. Basically, they have their own business. Sometimes there's multiple people in one, or they're just on their own. They're located all over the country, but tend to be concentrated in more high population areas near cities. And a good way to identify these folks is through ARC, through membership, and through their online database, which we will show in a little bit. So that's where conservators work. And as a conservator, actually only needed in an institution. And I have this slide divided into sort of two sections. Here are some for possible scenarios. Be aware that most conservators that work within an institution are very likely to be willing to offer basic assistance in sort of emergency planning or disaster response. In fact, many conservators and preservation administrators have been trained specifically to respond to disasters and cultural institutions through a program ARC has offered the past few years called ARC SIRT. And many are more than happy to answer general questions about collections care. It's just part of the profession to be involved in outreach. For example, here at the Georgia Archives, we do a lot of, we field a lot of questions. We don't do treatment for people, certainly, but we certainly answer questions. We'll even occasionally look at items if people bring them in. And we help other institutions as much as we can, according to current staffing and budget levels. So you can get a lot of assistance just by picking up the phone or sending an email. However, when you get into more time-intensive tasks, such as maybe needing a survey or a condition assessment or actual conservation treatment, well, that's when you're likely to have to enter into a contract for services. Some conservators working within institutions will do some contract work outside of their job. And as I said, there's also the conservators in private practice and regional centers. So just for context, what drives conservation within an institution? Here are some of the most common activities. A needs assessment or survey is a great way to identify collections or items that have the greatest preservation or conservation needs. These tools help an institution set priorities for treatment and can also help obtain funding. A survey will usually consider issues such as physical condition, value, and use in determining needs and priorities. So that's one way to identify items for treatment. Several of you said how expensive conservation is, which is true. So of course, you can't treat everything. You've got to set priorities. Other activities that drive treatment are found are exhibition. Certainly for exhibits, you don't want to put items that are damaged on exhibit. It's not good for public relations for your institution. And of course, it endangers the item further. And digitization, I know that's a big one in libraries and archives. At the Georgia Archives, digitization probably drives 90% of our conservation work. And then sometimes damaged items are identified when they're used, when they're exhibited in a museum setting or when they're used by patrons in a library or an archive. And then, of course, special projects, such as grants or maybe a donors of some sort is funding a particular project. For example, here at the State Archives, we are in the process of having a ceremonial sword treated by an outside conservator. And that's being funded by our friends' organization. And this is an object. We have a paper and book conservator, so we are bringing in an outside conservator to work on that artifact. Since that's not, we don't have expertise in that in-house. So are there any other activities that drive conservation at your institutions that I may have missed? Type that into chat. Did I get them all? I'll wait just a minute. In the meantime, we've had a question from Dan Kockensbarger there. Does the National Park Service offer any conservation service for hire or gratis outside the NPS? Or are they mandated to only work on NPS projects? Do you seem very aggressive? I believe they tend to focus on their National Park Service projects, but they do a tremendous amount of outreach in terms of their leaflets that they produce, which you mentioned. We've used those as featured resources on a lot of these webinars, too. They're great. Yeah, they are. And then the Stubb's Leases. We have in-house conservation, but contract out for certain projects, and we don't have relevant expertise. I think that's quite common. It's very important to understand. This is a good segue to this slide. Work can be done in-house with current staffing versus when you need to call in a professional. It's supposed to be conservative when deciding whether or not to do it yourself. It's often better to do nothing until you're able to have it done correctly. And I think we've all seen the problems in our collections that resulted from well-intentioned attempts at repair that sometimes can end up causing more damage than have just been doing nothing. So things we went into in an archival setting is previous repairs with pressure-sensitive tape or lamination. And then we get a lot of questions about these various home remedies that are out there, from microwaving or wet documents to deacidification using milk of magnesia and all sorts of things. And we just try to convince people, don't do it yourself. You're better off just denying it and neglect until you can find the finding to have it done properly. Well, conservation is not inexpensive. Treatment is very time-intensive. It's not usually quick. And because of that, it can be expensive. This reinforces the importance of setting priorities when selecting items for treatment. And as I mentioned before, be aware that your item may have to actually travel. It may be not available for a period of time while it's under treatment. Some conservators have backlogs. It could be a couple months, a couple weeks. Some conservators will travel for a large job. So of course, the cost of that travel will have to be built in. And remember, there are always some level of risk associated with treatment. Things don't always go as planned. So how do you pay for conservation? Well, one way is to begin by maybe getting funding to have a survey done. And here are some of the common organizations that provide grant-funded surveys. And they can help you bring in a conservator or a preservation consultant to help set priorities for conservation. And once you have a survey in place, then it's much easier to get further grants to actually implement the findings, which may include treatment. The Conservation Assessment Program is IMLS funding that is administrated through Heritage Preservation. And they provide a general needs assessment of your collection. So a conservator will come in and look at the environment, the collections, the building, and help to identify priorities and provide you with a report. The Museum Assessment Program is very similar. That is administrated through the American Association of Museums. And that's called MAP. These are similar grants for assessments, for setting priorities, and for surveys. And then NIH has the PAG grants or the Preservation Assistance Grants. Those are geared towards small organizations. Again, similar. You can have a survey done. You can get supplies. And then once you have a survey done, then you can reapply for funding to help implement some of those recommendations. And the focus of those grants are humanities collections. So those are some options to help with funding. So you've done your research. You set your priorities for treatment. You secured funding. And now it's time to find a conservator. Oh, now, there is a question here in chat. Does conservation preserve the value of an item, increase it, or decrease it? That's a tricky one. And I think it depends on, well, as the next question said, it depends on how you define value. And I've heard it both ways. In an institutional setting, our goal in an archive, we're not so focused on the monetary value because we're not going to ever sell the item. We want to stabilize it so it can be used and preserved in our collections. It certainly is an issue. And I have heard that in some cases, if treatment is not done in a certain manner, depending on the item, it maybe could have an impact on the value, especially if a treatment is not done well. So it's something definitely to consider what type of item you're interested in treating and how you define value, absolutely. And do we see insurance value? Would treatment impact the value, insurance value? I don't think it would, in that regard. That's mainly to protect your item if it's damaged, if there's a disaster. But you may be able to actually, if your item is damaged in a disaster, insurance might actually cover the treatment. That's something to look into in terms of your policies, the type of policy you have, and the coverages that you have. So let's move on to finding a conservator. You've done your research, set your priorities. You've secured funding. And now you want to identify somebody to actually work on your materials. One place to start is to talk to your colleagues. Ask your colleagues, your professional associates, and local museums, area museums, libraries, and archives for referrals and for references. There may be a regional conservation or preservation association. Within your area, that maintains a list of local conservators, so check with them. And of course, you can always contact the AIC. AIC maintains a print directory of all the members that are indexed by name and by state. So that's one way to identify them. And then as I mentioned, there's also, on the AIC website, there's two things. There's a great resource called How to Choose a Conservator, which goes through all the steps that we're talking about today and even more detail. And then they also have this online database. So we are going to take a look at them, at the database, if you haven't already used it. And this is what the home page looks like. And you see right on, I'm going to share my screen. We practiced this once, so let's hope it works. OK, I'm going to pull it over onto the AIC website. There it is. This is the home page of the AIC website. And right in the center, you see what's the savior treasures. Some of their most common resources are linked right here. It's real easy. Actually, I was going to plug How to Care for your treasures. If you follow that link, that takes you to a whole range of excellent and quality-produced leaflets on a range of different types of materials and how to preserve those. And you can print those out. They're PDFs. We use them in training that we do here. And those are excellent. How to Choose a Conservator. That link takes you to the leaflet, what I told you about the leaflet, on taking you through the steps on how to choose and work with a conservator. But what we're going to do is click on Find a Conservator. And it brings you to this next page, where you have to first select your area of specialty. Architecture, paintings, book and paper, photographic materials, textiles, et cetera. So we're going to go ahead and click on, I'm going to do a couple of different searches. First, we're going to click on Objects. We'll start our search. And then you get to this next screen. And one thing to be aware of, you can further narrow your search. You can select, again, the type of specialty under Step 2. Step 3, then you can even drill down deeper and select the type of material. And of course, within that specialty. Now, if you don't select any of these choices, it makes your search a little bit broader. So you can skip these steps as well. So I would suggest, when I was playing around with this, that if you live in a very, an area where there are a lot of conservatives, like say, Washington or New York or parts of California, you may want to drill in more. But if you live in a less heavily populated museum, populated area, if you're in a more rural area, if you drill in too much, you're not going to get very many hits. So I'm going to check ethnographic objects. And you can drill it all, check ceramics, narrow it a little bit more. And then Step 4, you can select the types of services provided. There's a whole range. And again, it gets very specific. Treatment is sort of the broadest, I would say. So I'm just going to check treatment. And then on Step 5, you select your geographic area. And there's an option here. You can do 20 miles, either your zip code of your city, 50, 100, 300, or no limit. So we're just going to try. Within 50 miles, and we'll go ahead and enter Atlanta, Georgia, and see what we get. And if you've been to NARA, you can then remove some of these search criteria and run your search again. We've got two. So within 50 miles of Atlanta, there's two AIC members that are either at the fellow level or the professional associate level with their specialty areas and archaeological objects. Sort of about what I expected. Now, let's try the same search, but let's do it within 50 miles of Washington, DC. And as we scroll down, we have nine hits.  I was playing around with this quite a bit. Atlanta is a big city, but we still don't have a lot of very specialized conservators in certain areas. So then you might have to back it out. And that's what I was saying. If you have something quite specialized, you may end up having to send your items quite a distance to get conservation in certain more specialized areas. But if you're in DC or New York, you're lucky. You can probably find somebody to treat just about anything. All right, so I just wanted to show you an example of how that database works. And if you have problems with it, you can contact AIC for additional assistance. All right, so ready to go back to the slides. So I need to stop sharing. I'll be back. OK, good. OK, so let's talk about you've identified some conservators now in your area with whose specialty meets your needs. So let's look at some of the questions that you want to ask when you're selecting them. So make sure you gather sufficient information on the individuals under consideration. And it's a good idea to talk to several people. It's like getting more than one bid for any type of important contract work that you might be doing. Ask them all the same questions so you can compare answers and qualifications. And now that you're more aware of how conservators obtain training and the professional organizations that they may be a part of, you can better evaluate their answers to some of the questions here on the slide. So remember to ask about membership in AIC and membership levels. Ask them how many years they've been in the field. And have them describe examples of treatments that they've done, especially ones that are to what you're thinking of undertaking. Ask for references from previous clients and institutions. And perhaps they have a website with actual pictures of some of their treatments. And be sure to ask about insurance and bonding. Do they have insurance? What type of coverage do they have? And if in the unlikely event that something happens or your item's damaged, will your item be covered? What sort of coverage is will you get? And you should also consult your own insurance policy, because you may have some sort of coverage if you have a fine arts type policy. And if you do, or you have deductibles and other limitations, for example. And I see it now, I'm just reading through the chat. That's how it makes, yes, a good comment, that it is worth noting that all EPAs, the professional associates, and the fellows are in the AIC database, which is true. So it does limit your options. So that's why I would do a combination of strategies when you're looking for a conservative. Look at the database. And in some areas, you may not find many hits, but also talk to other people in your area that may know of people. Thanks for that comment. So what to expect? A good rule of thumb, and I have already mentioned this, is to seek to stabilize rather than to restore. Be conservative. It will cost you less, and be less aggressive to your object. If you feel like a conservative wants to go further with the treatment, then you're comfortable. You don't have to go with that person. Be sure to communicate clearly your goals for the treatment. It's the purpose simply to stabilize the item for digitization, or is it being treated prior to going on, say, a lengthy traveling exhibit? These are the things you want to communicate about. Before any work at all begins, you should always get a proposed treatment estimate. Treatment proposals should include an examination and condition assessment, which can be time consuming. So sometimes there is a charge for the estimate.  Either way, this proposal should outline clearly the procedures to be undertaken in the course of the treatment and include time estimate and cost. And the time estimate is typically given in hours. And in most every instance, this treatment proposal, the conservator needs to examine the item in person. You can send photographs for an initial assessment, maybe a ballpark, but then the actual treatment proposal and cost estimate. They need to see the item in person. So in some cases, you may be offered more than one option, choice A and choice B, with a different cost. And for example, so there may be some choices you have to make. A treatment we did, there was a different cost, whether we wanted to tone the tissue fills in a treatment versus just leaving them on a plain paper. And again, there's some aesthetic decisions that have to be made. In some cases, there may be also differences in the type of housing. Are you going to have something fully matted or is it just going to go in some sort of folder? So that's going to cost more. So there may be some decisions made in that regard. You may be asked to leave a deposit. The color materials or anything upfront cost for the conservator. But typically, the bulk of the payment should be made upon completion of the job. And the conservator really should be in touch with you throughout the treatment. If any procedures need to be altered or changed, because things do change when you get involved in something. But it's important that that's communicated to you. And the conservator should be willing to explain and describe the reason for any changes made during the treatment. There should also be documentation and a treatment report, often with photography. That's what we call documentation. These reports don't have to be lengthy, but they need to be detailed and concise. And they need to include the list of materials and the procedures used in this treatment. And this is important to have these documentations should remain in the files for this object. So in the future, it's now what was done to this item and when, if there's any problems within the future, there's just an important part of the history of this object. So make sure you keep that documentation. It should be, like I said, include the materials used and the procedures. And photographic documentation is also highly desired. You want images before the item was treated, as you see here. This is an image of a map that we treated at the archives several years ago. It's an 1808 map of Milletville, Georgia. And you can see this one, many reasons for treatment here. It was very compromised and very poor condition. And it was a significant map. So this is one we definitely needed was a high priority for treatment. In this case, we did bring in a private conservator to work along with our conservator to do this treatment. It's a large map. It was good to have two hands. And the treatment went a lot faster that way. That's another example. And that was the before treatment photography. So after this entire process has been completed, you should be hopefully satisfied with the results. And I'm grateful that you took the time to educate yourself about conservation and spent the time to really choose a conservator carefully and wisely. And here you see the after treatment photography of the same map. And these images, in addition to being just important in documenting the process and what happened to the item, they're very useful for a lot of purposes. You can use them in PR pieces. You can use them in exhibits to promote preservation. And they can even be used to help track donors to fund future conservation activities. So that's all I have other than my contact information, which is on the next slide. Are there any other questions? Please type them into chat or comments. And in the meantime, I'm going to pull over one or two open-ended questions just for our information about the webinar and how people heard about it. We'll give door prizes to people for responding to these. I'll make sure not to cover up your contact information there. Oh, let's see here. All right, that's the wrong thing. We'd like to know how you heard about today's webinar. We're trying to get the word out about these everywhere. So let's see from my email. Great. We're library listeners. OK, while we wait to see if there are any last questions, I'm going to pull over a place where you can click to take a very brief survey. It's eight questions. It does not take a lot of time, most of them are multiple choice, but we really appreciate your input on these webinars and your ideas for future ones, too. A lot of the ones that we've developed over the last couple of months have been directly taken from the suggestions that we get from this survey. We're listening and we're reading them, and we're grateful if you will take a couple of minutes to fill it out. OK, great. I'll also mention our upcoming webinars. We have one on security for collections. It's about preventing loss and planning to take care of the security aspect of maintaining a collection. We're going to try to address that for any budget. That's going to be our next one on May 23rd. And then after that, in June, we have a couple. The first one is with Wendy Clark, who's a museum specialist at the NEA. It's going to be about how to submit an artworks grant. And then care of plastics follows on June 13th and wireless data loggers, which is sort of a part two of a webinar we had on data loggers generally. That wireless data loggers will be on Tuesday, July 17th. OK, let's see. We've got a couple of questions here. Terry Johnson in Concord, New Hampshire. We found a recommended conservator, but haven't had any work done by them yet. Is it smart to have them just do one object for sort of as a trial run? Christine, what do you think? Yes, I think you've evaluated them and gone through the questions and asked about the expertise, et cetera. I think that's a great idea, have them do an object or two and then go from there. Absolutely. Katie Adams in Colorado asked, do most conservators have their own insurance coverage, or do they depend on the institution for that? How does that work? Well, I would say most conservators who have a practice in their home or in some sort of maybe office complex or something like that should have insurance coverage. In some cases, we've contracted with private conservators, but have them actually do the work in our lab, because we have a facility and we have a building and then our item doesn't have to travel. And in that case, the work was covered by our insurance. But I think if you take something out of your facility to another facility, you would want to make sure that they have coverage. All right, well, if there are no other questions. Oh, looks like we've got another one coming in. Hold on. OK. I'll answer the insurance coverage. OK. Any other questions? I want to thank all of our participants for the great questions and for your participation. And we'll be posting a PDF of these slides and also a recording of today's webinar online in the next day, for sure. So that'll be made available to you all. And I'll post on Facebook and Twitter when we have it up. And if there are any questions that occur to you later, you can post them in the group discussion boards on the online community. And I will make sure that we get an answer for you. So if there's nothing else, I think we'll go ahead and wrap it up. Christine, thank you so much for your time and for this excellent presentation. I know it was definitely useful for our participants. We'll be useful for other people going forward, too. Sure. It's great to be here. Hi. All right, Susan, thank you. Thanks to the participants. I hope everyone has a great afternoon.