at the start, just to reiterate your introduction, I have now left Unilever. I've chosen to leave and do some consulting to spend some time, more time with my kids, but they're very little. But I have spent the last 10 years there, so I can reference examples. And I think you mentioned before, I often don't like the term nature based solutions because it comes with so much controversy. Like it makes sense as a phrase, but in certain countries in which we operate, it can be very contentious. There's always that phrase that I love, our nature is not your solution. And it doesn't mean that companies aren't committed to investment in nature and nature positive supply chains, but it's often a tricky term. And that's a wider point on how you deploy some of this at a huge scale when you're operating in 190-plus countries. What do your operations on nature and what does your measurement on nature look like in very different areas? And I really liked what Owen said. I was gonna say something similar, but he said it in a much better way about moving beyond the carbon mindset. Because again, that's kind of one of the controversies with nature based solutions is it's the assumption that you're gonna buy carbon credits. But I think we're talking about the wider UN definition of nature based solutions, which is an investment in nature. I've got the definition in front of me, but I won't read it out. So I'm very encouraged by the Global Biodiversity Framework. I mean, moving beyond the actual words that are in the policy, but the whole movement that's happening around the Global Biodiversity Framework in terms of investor interest, company action, grassroots movement. I feel like in terms of kind of people talked about trying to create the Paris moment for nature around the coming Montreal Declaration. For me, that feels very live at the moment. Having looked at this stuff for the last 10 years, I'm feeling very excited about the momentum and the campaign behind that. Thank you. Thank you, Melissa. And it's a really important kind of call-out you make. So for those of you in our audience who don't know, as part of the kind of UN process around biodiversity, there was a meeting in Montreal co-hosted by the Chinese government, which agreed a new global framework of biodiversity that was the COP 15 of that framework, the 15th conference of that framework. CSL had a presence there, along with many of the other organizations involved, but it was a really important breakthrough moment for the world. Craig, maybe if I could hand over to you to give us your perspectives on this conversation. Thank you, Elliot. And great to be joining you all, be joining Owen and Melissa on this very important discussion. Couple of things, first of all, about the wildlife trust. We're actually one of the largest nature NGOs here in the UK and actually in the world when you put it together, we're a federation of locally run wildlife trusts across the UK, 46 in total. But collectively, our scale is quite extraordinary. We're actually the, we have almost a million members in the UK. We have more nature reserves than McDonald's has got restaurants in the UK. In fact, a thousand more. And we estimate that 60% of the British population lived within three miles of one of our reserves. And in total, we have the seventh largest landholder in the UK and actually have almost 3,000 staff. So it gives you an idea of our kind of scale working across a huge range of natural habitats and working very closely with people and communities in doing that as well. Before I was at the Wildlife Trust, I had a long career in working in NGOs, including internationally. I was at Fensie Earth and on the board of Fensie Earth International for many years. And I've worked closely with business as well, not least at the Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership and worked with business on many, many initiatives. And I say all that, not just to give you my biography, but to say that, you know, I do kind of look at these issues from all of those perspectives, from a business perspective, from an NGO perspective, from a community perspective. And also I've had periods of my career when I focused on nature and periods of my career when I focused on climate, if you like. One of the things that's driven me mad over many decades is just how for too long in the sustainability community, we've treated the climate crisis and the nature crisis as if they're quite separate things. And it's often a different group of people that work on them. We have different UN conventions working on them. And there might be logic in that focus at times, but even people in the sustainability community often don't realize that these issues are inextricably linked. You know, just to put it really clearly, we have absolutely no hope whatsoever of solving the climate crisis unless we can put nature in recovery and we have no hope of solving the ecological crisis unless we can tackle climate change. The clue for that should be staring us right in the face. It's really obvious. We often talk about fossil fuels. How often do we stop to think that fossil fuels are actually dead biodiversity? And it's biodiversity that captured carbon. Millions of years ago, locked it up in what we now call fossil fuels. And when we burn fossil fuels, we're really releasing the carbon that was captured by nature millions of years before. So that's just as a preface on this. And I mean, because of that, I'm incredibly enthusiastic broadly about nature-based solutions. But there are things we do need to be really careful about. And it's really careful that particularly people working in the nature space, and I say this just to people as much as NGOs as I do in business, that we've got to be careful not to overstate the role that nature-based solutions can play while also being very enthusiastic about them. The reality is that nature-based solutions have a real but limited role that they can play in tackling, for example, the climate crisis. And I say that because all too often, people will hold them up as the answer, the silver bullet. You will probably find hardly anyone more enthusiastic about nature-based solutions than me. But that's all the more reason we've got to be careful about how the role they can play is very real, but it is limited. Now, why is it limited? Well, it's partly because there's a limited amount of space for nature-based solutions. There's only so much area that we can have, sadly, for restoring nature on a fairly crowded world now in many ways. There's also only a limited amount of time. If we're talking about, say, trying to halve global emissions, which is still the plan by 2030. Nature can play a big role in that. But all of that has to be in addition to cutting carbonate salts to stop burning fossil fuels. Sometimes it's almost presented as a convenient way out to carry on with business as usual. And that is the way of madness. If we do that, then we will make the whole concept of nature-based solutions toxic in many people's eyes. And rightly so if we do that. So every time we talk about nature-based solutions, we have to talk how it's in addition to stopping the bad stuff happening, stopping burning fossil fuels, stopping allowing pollutants into rivers or whatever. And crucially, this is also important because climate change is the biggest threat to nature now, probably for the rest of this century.  So at the precise moment that we need nature at its best state possible to help us out of the climate crisis, if we're not careful, we're reducing the ability for nature to do that. And this is really important, particularly in the offsets debate. You know, I'm very skeptical about offsets. Very cautious about them. I don't rule them out entirely, but actually we say in the NGO community, all of us have to be very careful to make sure that none of this just allows business to carry on with business as usual. You know, we need to see transformational change in the way business goes around business over the next decade or so. And we need to see that in addition to investing in nature-based solutions, not in nature-based solutions as an alternative to that deep system change that we need. Having said all that, we should celebrate the very real role that nature-based solutions can play. On the climate debate alone, Natalie Seddon, Professor Natalie Seddon at the University of Oxford, if I can dare to mention that other place at the University of Cambridge seminar, she and her team have estimated that if we really put effort into it, nature-based solutions could help for around 0.3 degrees of climate mitigation. Well, I take that, you know, we need everything at the moment. And actually, given that we're around 1.1 degree, and we wanna try and keep global temperatures to less than 1.5 degrees, 0.3 degrees is not something to be sniffed at, but it's not gonna be really more than that. So we need to be going hard on stopping burning fossil fuels as well as nature-based solutions. Secondly, we need to recognize that, although we often talk about net zero, actually, you know what? Net zero is not the destination. We often forget that. It's a very, very important milestone, but really where we need to get to, certainly by the second half of this century, is net negative. We need to be taking carbon out of the air. And much as some people love to talk about these machines as yet uninvented to take carbon out of the air for us, we have trillions of machines that do that brilliantly for us for free. They're called trees and they're called wetlands and they're called blue carbon in the oceans as well. Even fish, even biodiversity, even the abundance of species is brilliant at locking up carbon in the biosphere as opposed to the atmosphere as well. So actually let's focus on the storing the abundance of nature and getting nature working again to really suck carbon out of the air. So absolutely there's a role of nature-based solutions in climate mitigation, but we shouldn't overstate it. However, there's also a phenomenally brilliant role that nature-based solutions can play in climate adaptation. And there we almost can't possibly overstate how effective they can be because nature-based solutions actually can provide the buffer zones. They can provide support for flood alleviation. They can hold water back in the landscape. They can call our urban centers. They can absolutely call our rivers and also clean up our rivers as well. And this isn't just about planting trees, by the way, much as that's important. Sometimes we don't see the wood for the trees or more to the point the wooden habitat and just how important if you go beyond trees, actually the carbon that can be stored in the soil, not least through fungal networks in forests if we really create whole forest habitats as well. And it's not just about forests, it's about those wetlands. It's about the abundance of nature. It's about blue carbon. It's about seagrasses, salt marshes and so on. A huge range of nature-based solutions can do it. You know, if we really think about it, I defy anyone to think of another climate solution that can do both mitigation, adaptation and deliver all those co-benefits like recreation, flood alleviation, health and wellbeing and so on as well. So nature-based solutions are absolutely brilliant, but they're no excuse for holding back on doing what needs to be done and stopping the bad stuff happening as well. Thank you. Greg, that's brilliant and has given us like, I think between all three of you, that there's huge meat for the conversation. So I think we can probably, it would be good to come to some specific examples, but before we do that, I think it'd be really good if I could go to both Owen and Melissa just to kind of respond to the challenge, I think that the Craig put in the room in terms of like this clear need to have this very kind of strong thinking about how you bring climate and nature together and how you do the decision-making about it in a way that delivers the environmental integrity, the ongoing benefits that Craig talked about and makes that happen. Maybe if I could start with Melissa and just sort of say, you've obviously been involved in this in previous, and hopefully we'll be advising more companies as you kind of get pulled. What do you see as sort of some of the opportunities and challenges of having to kind of make that conversation happen and having to have decision-makers grapple with this? Yeah, well, I completely agree with Craig Bennett about the kind of fear of nature-based solutions being seen as this silver bullet, and that was partly of what I was saying around the controversy of the term in itself. Unilever, my most recent example, focuses on deep decarbonisation. The company doesn't seek to reach its submission to reductions through carbon offset. So therefore, again, which is why nature-based solutions is controversial. But I think there are many in terms of bringing the nature and climate crisis together. There are many company actions such as forest restoration, regenerative agriculture, which have metrics, which look at carbon, which look at biodiversity, which look at soil. So I do see from a corporate perspective, this is coming together and a lot of this work is coming together through the great work that the coalitions are doing, such as WBCSD and One Planet Business for Biodiversity. They divide out their work streams to look at things like the Science-Based Targets Initiative for Climate and the Science-Based Targets Network for Nature. And they look at kind of company feedback on two emerging methodologies, and they kind of look at where the similarities are as well. So I think in my experience, the work that's happened with the coalitions for the last 10 years has really come on. They're really helping companies now. It used to be 10 years ago, we'd be involved in a press release at a big event and great that that was the work through the coalitions. But now they're really looking at the detail of this and doing a lot of the heavy lifting and looking at those synergies and where we can kind of bring this work together. Thanks, Melissa. Owen, maybe you could sort of also reflect on how easy it is for companies to balance all these different kind of challenges and benefits. And maybe if you could particularly take that down if you can, not just kind of the general decision-making case, but into some specific examples. You talked very clearly about palm oil, coffee and cocoa earlier, but you might have some more. Yeah, sure. So I think first of all, I'd say we're in almost a bit of a privileged position in the food and beverage industry, whereby our supply chains are very clearly natural resources. It's land and the way that we've managed that land is something that can be addressed relatively quickly in terms of the approach, the strategy and the objectives and targets, et cetera. And then the transformation itself will take, of course, time and it will rely very much on the local context, which is why we have teams working all around the world with farmers and landowners and communities as well to sort of understand specific needs and specific places. So we don't invest in the wrong project in the wrong place. That's really important to avoid. On the reductions and removals discussion there, I think, again, it's sort of like it's quite an integrated approach for food and beverage companies because we can reduce emissions through operations and through switching to more regenerative forms of agriculture, but there's also this big opportunity to remove carbon through nature-based solutions, which are almost kind of part of the same plan. And I think that's preferable because it allows a greater level of oversight, longevity in terms of the approach, and also I think the realization of co-benefits, which factor in quite a lot of economic perspectives as well. So you can safeguard a landscape, but if the community there, there's a negative economic impact from that action, it's unlikely to be successful and it's unlikely to last for the long term. So I think diving into a bit more detail on what that means for us, we've been involved in efforts in Cote d'Ivoire and Ghana on preserving forests, the remaining forests that are left in those countries, which have come under quite a lot of pressure from cocoa cultivation and a lot of the people cultivating cocoa are small holders, people who are very much kind of on the lower end of the income spectrum and are affected by poverty. And the approach taken there really is to try to understand the needs of the community as well as understand the ecological impact of those activities and to devise solutions in partnership with local government and other partners which don't result in those negative social outcomes. They actually address that first and foremost. One thing we did was launch an income accelerator program where cocoa farmers are rewarded for carrying out certain practices and some of those practices are around improving their efficiency. So there's less pressure on land to expand. Some of those practices are around addressing some of the social issues that are occurring locally. And the whole idea being to improve their economic model and to reduce pressure on surrounding areas. And in those surrounding areas we can also then fund restoration projects which are likely to last for the long term because of that kind of holistic integrated approach across both the economic and the ecological spheres. So I think that's just one example but really I think our approach is to try and take that into different contexts based on local considerations. Whether that's a coffee farmer in Vietnam who is looking to improve their income through growing something else alongside their coffee plants on the same area of land or it's a cocoa farmer in Côte d'Ivoire who needs to have a more secure economic model to avoid some of those risks of deforestation. So really kind of looking at it as an integrated reductions and removals approach and an integrated social and environmental approach as well. Massa, it'd be interesting to hear if your experience echoes Owens and I think, you know, some really strong themes there about firstly about kind of what you're managing secondly about the importance of place and locality and thirdly about like the local stakeholder engagement. So just interested in your thoughts and any of those themes in your experience or anything that's a little bit different to that. Yeah, I mean it is similar because these are big, huge, complicated supply chains. I think some of the work that I've been encouraged about is the work around the palm oil supply chain. So the kind of the evolution into production landscapes that Unilever has. So, and the people part is so important. You know, before you can go into these landscapes and even kind of train the farmers, measure the nature, et cetera, you have to aggregate the farmers, you have to make sure that they've got the right land rights, you have to kind of make sure they're even aggregated into these groups to be able to train them. And the people part is so critical. Unilever's got, it's kind of supply chain policy for this which is called the people and nature policy and all of the people work comes first. And the idea of these landscapes is that you can kind of increase the production of palm oil without converting any extra land and you protect the surrounding areas so riparian reserve, a wildlife corridor. And then you go in with partners and partners is key because the partners are NGOs such as WWF or the sub-national governments.  And I very much see other companies taking this type of approach and scaling up this type of work. I mean, Craig, Melissa just talked about the importance of partnership. I don't know if there's something from your perspective as an NGO or heading up an NGO, how you would see that and what some of the things that you would be asking companies to bear in mind when they're deciding whether to do these projects or what would make the success or failure in these projects. I think partnership is absolutely crucial in this both for companies and both for NGOs and community groups to be able to deliver on any of this because it does need that kind of special blend of people coming from different perspectives and bringing different things to the party to kind of make it happen. It's important, I think, for everyone to understand what's crucial in all of that.  And so from our point of view, say, as the Wildlife Trusts, we are very enthusiastic about working with companies on the roll out of nature-based solutions. But in doing that, we want to, we'll only do that with companies that we feel confident are doing everything they can to, in the case of carbon, stop burning fossil fuels at source. And then we can have a conversation about what's to do with the residual emissions if we're really, really sure that the company's done everything it can investing in new technology for energy efficiency and transitioning out of fossil fuels. And then we're clear to have a really good conversation about what to do with that residual emissions or even historic emissions and so on. But we don't want to be accused by our supporters or by other stakeholders of facilitating business to carry on with business as usual. So it's kind of really important that we're working with the companies that can do that. But when we do get that kind of agreement where we do think that we can see I2I and a company sort of shares a agenda and a perspective on say an H-based solution similar to ours, then we're really excited about what can be delivered. And just in January, we announced a huge partnership, a 100-year partnership with Aviva Insurance, which sees them investing 38 million pounds in the wildlife trust, helping to restore temperate rainforest to the UK, to the west coast of the UK. And that's perhaps one of the biggest corporate partnerships in the history of the UK really. And we're hugely excited about that. That will result in a habitat which is only tiny fragmented parts of it left at the moment, restoring that up the west coast of the UK. And it's only through a partnership like that we can dare to dream that we can do such a thing. So there's an awful lot of potential here, but all the parties need to understand what's the sort of rules of the game if you'd like to be able to enable that partnership to happen. Do you think business needs to, in order to make some of these projects happen? I mean, Owen talked about planting the right trees in the right place and understanding that. Do you think business needs to be able to invest in just greater environmental understanding to understand these landscapes and these localities? Yeah, absolutely.  But I think there's been a bit too much focus just on trees over the last few years. I said, I hinted at before what I was saying before, is we, I kind of get a bit exhausted. The number of people think the answer to everything is planting trees. That's not to say we shouldn't plant trees. There's some real benefits of that. But surely what we're about is trying to create forest habitat with all the benefits that come from that rather than create a crop, which is actually just no more than an oversized grown wheat field, essentially. You know, this is not about a new form of agriculture, it's about nature. And therefore, trying to create a forest ecosystem with all the sort of undergrowth and the soil communities, the soil carbon and the fungal networks that go with that and so on takes a bit longer, but the price you get at the end is so much bigger. And obviously you also wanna do it absolutely with cooperation and involvement of local communities so that local communities, whether we're talking in the global north or particularly in the global south, this feels like this is something done with and for local communities and empowering local communities to be part of this rather than something that is done to local communities. And then that won't last and endure. And it will be seen as a, you know, again, big business or even big NGOs trying to force their agenda on others. So yes, a lot of this is complicated. A lot of that means that you need business and NGOs to make sure that they fully understand all the different dimensions of this before engaging in it and understand all these kind of different perspectives. It's about constantly learning and not thinking there's ever a moment when you know it all and recognizing that it's like lifelong learning that's required around all of these. But my goodness, the price when you can get it right is phenomenal. I flip to the other two because I think there is something really interesting here which is that the specificity, the engagement, the upfront investment needed to unlock value in these projects, obviously to a certain extent there's a tension between some of the things that are often business decision-making looking for efficiency, scale, you know, replicability that you can do some of this stuff. How easy is it, have you found it to make the case for these kind of projects within a business structure? Maybe if I could start with you, Melissa, is that okay? Yeah, well, you know, Unilever has the long history of doing this, particularly in the Palmwell supply chain. In terms of kind of making the case, it's very much kind of linked to the board ambitions. There used to be a separate sustainability target and a kind of global business target and now they're the same thing. So there's not much kind of need for making the cases integral to the business strategy. But I think it kind of a key piece to this as well as the kind of the skills within a business to be able to do it and the kind of the need to upskill people and hire the right people in the future. And I think that that is a real gap at the moment, just generally people understanding this enough in terms of kind of what a business needs and the technicalities of what's needed through SBTI and SBTN and how do you navigate this huge sea of coalitions and partners and supply chains? And I think a big increase over the next few years is kind of filling that skills gap, you know, making sure enough people understand about this and are trained in the right way. And I think that that's a big gap at the moment. So then sort of same question to you about, you know, how you make the case internally, but then I'm also interested to build off of Melissa's point. Melissa's talked about things you need to build internally in terms of the skills, the ability to navigate this landscape. We've talked about the hardship. Also interested to think to hear from you in terms of other things that need to shift in the landscape. To enable progress. Yeah, sure. So I think, you know, as I mentioned before, we kind of went from a no deforestation approach through to a forest preservation approach and now into what we call the forest positive approach. And so over time, I think the case has made itself, you know, based on the progress that we've made in improving traceability and in using some of these innovative tools that I mentioned before about monitoring progress. And making the case is more straightforward when it's connected to a big objective like the net zero plan that we have. And the fact that we are not focused on the offsets market but focused on projects within our value chains. And I think that's slightly easier to make the case for because it forms a part of our relationships with our suppliers as well. And quite often those are long-term relationships that obviously they're commercial relationships. And so if we can introduce another element into those relationships of safeguarding natural resources and then looking for, you know, those win-wins on restoring landscapes, which benefit the supplier and benefit the end user, which is Nestle in this instance. And of course our customers, right? So, you know, we're purchasing, we're often in the middle. So we purchase what we call war materials, you know food, ingredients from suppliers. We manufacture those into products. We sell them to customers, which are often retailers. And then they sell them to consumers who are the general public buying products on a day-to-day basis. So all of these parts of the chain have a role to play. And I think the suppliers side is really, really important for the projects, make sure the project's happening in the right places that they are monitored for the long-term, that they have a sound financial basis. I think the our role is really to set ourselves tough targets and commitments and to listen carefully to the outside world and adjust our strategy as according to how things evolve. And they certainly are evolving quickly, you know this understanding of the integrated nature, integrated nature of nature and climate of the role of water resources within that. And obviously communities, as I mentioned before is evolving rapidly in a good direction. And then we need to sort of fit that into how we deal with our customers. You know, there's obviously a commercial element there too, you know, and if our actions meet our customers requirements, that's a good thing for Nestle, right? And then of course, if we're meeting consumer demand, the consumer expectations, then that makes the business case even stronger. So, you know, really I think it's about linking it to doing the right thing, you know having strong commitments which meets societal expectations, but also to frame it within a business, a set of business relationships that are already there. I'm going to start introducing questions from the audience because we've had a bundle and there's some very good ones. And it's a difficult question for all of us because we've got to, we've got a representative of food and consumer goods company and then a former representative of food and consumer customer in NNGO. The question is basically, is this just an issue that certain sectors engage with, you know, that there are some very exposed question sectors, you know, some commodity consumer goods companies mining, you know, potentially water utilities, they're very exposed to these things, but that other companies just treat as a side issue. And if you think that is the case, how do we convince business more broadly beyond sort of these key sectors like agriculture and mining with a very strong land footprint about the value of biodiversity as a strategic concern? It's not just a nice to have, but it's a strategic interest. I'm going to start opening. So do try and catch my eye virtually if you want to say this, but maybe I will start with Craig because I know he's never knowingly lost for things to say. Thank you. Well, particularly on this topic, look, I mean, the first thing I would say, this is something that society needs to get its head around. Never mind, you know, just one business sector or another, the whole of society needs to understand and learn and our politics, our economy, we need to learn and celebrate just how essential nature-based solutions are for human progress. You know, we're not going to progress very much as humanity unless we learn to live fairly within environmental limits and actually to reconnect but restore nature and restore the connection between people and nature in the process of that. And you know, to think more widely, I mean, I know we will have people joining us from around the world here, but in the UK at the moment, well, it's pretty much always been the case that there's been a big debate at the moment about the crisis in our national health service and our national health service which is really under strain in the UK at the moment as well, our publicly funded health service of which we're very proud and which turned 70 years old this summer. I mean, I would say there will always be a crisis in the NHS in the UK for as long as nature's in decline. There will always be a crisis until we can actually start to restore nature because there's a very, very clear role, there's a very clear nature-based solutions to a lot of health problems, which is nature, nature on our doorstep. My goodness, we learned during the lockdowns of COVID just how important a daily dose of nature was for people's health and well-being. There is very clear scientific evidence of the role that nature can play in and around our towns or cities of improving air quality, for example, or indeed even water quality. And actually shifting from a concept of not so much a national health service to a national wellness service will actually be a much more sustainable and effective approach longer term. But for that, we need to see that there's an extraordinary role that nature can play in trying to keep society healthy. So even on a topic like that, we need to think this is not just an issue for business alone or indeed a particular sector of business or some parts of it. Everyone needs to be playing their part and looking at how we can try and make sure that nature is there to provide these huge benefits, these nature-based solutions, as well as obviously stopping all bad stuff. Everything I said before goes the same as well before. And then we can start to live life more sustainably on this planet. So it's really wrapped up into that wider system change debate that I think is so important. Melissa, Owen talked about the various components of building the business case and Craig talked about the need to shift. You've talked about things like the global biodiversity framework and the big sort of the growth of new coalitions, new partnerships around this. I wondered if you had me thinking about the balance between where business can be trusted or allowed to act and where we need to see kind of stronger policy frameworks enabling and driving action and what you think business should be doing in terms of engaging in those policy conversations. Yeah, so I mean, my head was also in the kind of the question that came through the panel. So just to kind of start with that and then what businesses can do. I think that there's so many, the activist NGOs are doing such a great job at the moment that it almost feels like that, if a company wasn't doing whatever, there's no room to hide. And the coalitions are doing a great job in terms of kind of proving the economic case for investing in nature with real life examples. And the coalitions, as I said before, seem to me more helpful than they ever have in the last 10 years. So and in terms of what business can actually do, I think if you're operating at a global scale, you need kind of good internal policies for what is a quality nature-based solution? What's a quality nature intervention? So Unilever has got its Sustainable Agriculture Code and its return to agriculture principles, which it implements with farmers at scale and that they're kind of created in development with lots of different partners and NGOs. And I spoke before about kind of the focus on people. So like looking at where your material impact is, aggregating kind of local people there and kind of connecting those relationships so you know what matters on the ground in a particular area, upscaling your own people. And again, I think this is where coalitions can be so helpful. And I will go back to the kind of the example of SBTI and SBTN, but some of the coalitions are looking at kind of these emerging methodologies and what actually works in a very complicated supply chain where raw materials are brought in directly and you kind of have a supply-shared approach where you go into a landscape, you don't have kind of direct site at the moment of where that comes from. So you have to look at the wider landscapes and what the implications are there. And the coalitions are doing a good job at kind of making these methodologies make sense for businesses. So there's many opportunities for businesses to go in, have those initial conversations and work out where they can start. And again, the kind of the importance of assessing your material impact means that you don't have to start big. You know, you can kind of look at where your material focus is for your business and you can go in and get that help in that particular area. There's so much advice available. Thanks, Melissa, maybe. And I think that's exactly right by the way. I think as we're, you know, more and more questions entering into the mix. So as I kind of go around you all, feel free to pick up threads that I haven't directly asked you about and keep the conversation going. Owen, maybe if I could move to you and just, you know, your own perspective on some of these things, but also I think we're getting a thread of questions around how do you assure the quality? You've talked about the technologies, what technologies are important. Melissa's talked about kind of like the coalitions and the accounting frameworks, like what accounting frameworks is natural capital counting useful? You know, what are the things that we need to do to ensure that when we're doing a nature-based solution project or something that loosely falls into that camp, it's a good one, it's worth doing. Yeah, so maybe just to answer the first question initially, I think that it's right that all companies should look at how they can contribute. You know, nature is a shared resource. It's everything, really. And there will be an entry point, you know, for almost any organization into their impact on nature and that can be assessed and addressed in some way. It may be very minimal, it may be very existential. I think having said that, food and land-use companies do have a particular role to play because slightly differently to the climate crisis, the biodiversity crisis is strongly influenced by agriculture, you know, that's where the land-use element comes in. And so for us not to address that as big food or land-use companies is we're not going to get anywhere. You know, we're not going to solve the problem if I think large food and beverage companies don't do something about it. You know, similarly to on the climate crisis, we need to have all sectors pulling hard, but really the energy system is crucial at least initially making progress. So, you know, I think there is a special role for food and beverage companies. And then in terms of like, you know, ensuring you get it right, well, first thing says that we definitely don't have a perfect solution right now. We are learning as we go, you know, what looked correct in 2020 when we launched our net zero roadmap is rapidly looking out of date. And we need to sort of think about that and that's where the stakeholder engagement comes in. That's where the community engagement comes in to figure out what's working, what isn't working and how to tailor and focus your strategy going forwards. And I think the things that are successful involve partners in it for the long term. So that could be, for example, we're working on something called the RIMBA Collective in palm oil sourcing regions. I think Unilever might be a member of that one as well. Yeah. And that's around using a third party financing partner who's supporting collective actions, which then the individual companies can benefit from by being part of that collective arrangement. And, you know, the sums of money involved are very significant and the time frames are out to the 25, 30 year period. You know, so that kind of long-term approach, I think is a good way of ensuring progress because there's a level of buy-in, which means, you know, you need to evolve it over time, make it work and figure out which partners to really go in with. And then in terms of figuring out what works, it's again, just coming back to this point on local networks, people with local knowledge, whether that's inside the company or outside the company, that's absolutely critical. And we have, and let's say we have a network, for example, of 2000 agronomists who are based in many different countries. Most of those are in the global south. They have very strong connections with local people and farmers in particular. And they can really understand where the challenges are and where maybe the solution should be targeted. So we're not deciding things from here in Switzerland that take place in, you know, rural areas of West Africa or Brazil. We're doing those decisions much more on a local basis based on that local knowledge. So I think longevity, the right partners and local understanding are key factors. Okay, I think what we're gonna do now is we're gonna go round and ask you for your kind of like final thoughts each of the panel. But as I do that, I think we've talked a lot about what makes success, what you need to consider, all of those kind of questions. And we've talked, I think, a little bit about where nature-based solutions aren't appropriate and the limits to them. But if we take all of that as Red and take the point of view that nature-based solutions are a valuable piece of the puzzle and we need them to grow and to be bigger than they currently are. So one of the kind of questions that comes through is what do we need to do from the audience? Is what do we need to do to scale nature-based solutions? So if I can kind of collectively ask you as you go around, you know, because you're one or two things that you wanna leave the audience as a takeaway, but particularly to respond to this question, like what do we need to do to really scale this to get it to deliver on its potential? And is that about, and the particular example of it, is it something to do with, should they be on the agenda or a COP 28 or do we need a further international thing? But there might be other kind of practical questions. We need to know. I might have lost one of our speakers. So I'm gonna start with Craig if you like and then go past Owen and Melissa if we've got it. Thanks, Elliot. Well, I think it's really important to take these to scale is to build the kind of trust and confidence of all players in the huge role that they can play. So, you know, something that Owen was saying there, you know, I think it is, it's really important that companies engage in this, do this with the right partners, the other organizations being their profit or not-for-profit or community-based that can absolutely have the lot, you know, have the long-term skills and knowledge about how to do this and can see the big picture. And that's what's particularly important that our two things is one that actually, we look at these issues holistically in terms of the problems they can solve. So not just look, say, through a narrow carbon lens, but look at all those kind of wider co-benefits. Actually, how employing an HBase solution, yeah, can be good on the carbon debate but also good on the nature of the debate, on the soil debate, on the front alleviation debate and so on. But crucially also, as Owen was saying, that there's the local, they have links to local partners and in particular local communities as well to make sure that there's the community buy-in and support for whatever's gonna be taken to scale. And obviously there's a big role for standards in this as well. But I mean, and there's various standards out there for how to undertake these nature-based solutions. IUCN, World Conservation Union has a nature-based solutions standard. Of course, there's different standards for different carbon tools as well. And that's very important. But ultimately it's about trying to look at these through a much more holistic lens, look at it from a system change point of view rather than thinking that they can help in a very narrow, siloed way to deliver on one particular part of the corporate sustainability strategy. Actually it should be there for the much wider, bigger story. But for companies that really wanna get serious, wanna be absolute serious players on sustainability and to be recognized for the leadership role in five, 10, 15 years time nature-based solutions I think have to be absolutely crucially a big part of the solution. Thank you, Craig. Unfortunately, we've lost Melissa to a fire alarm. So we're a panelist down, but these things happen. Owen, over to you. Your thoughts, you want to leave people with also this question about how to get to scale. Yeah, thanks. So I think in terms of getting to scale, there is a need to build confidence between different partners. And again, I'm coming from a fairly privileged position in terms of Nestle because we've been working for over a decade on managing our impact on nature, on forests, arguably much longer than that. And so we've learned quite a lot along the way. But there are gonna still be instances of negative reactions to what we're doing. And it's important to kind of lean into those discussions and listen and to learn and to figure out how you can do even better by understanding if it's a community that feels that we're doing, that we could improve our approach or if it's a stakeholder who thinks that our strategy might need a bit of tweaking or improvement, then it's important to kind of listen and learn along the way. And not to sort of go out there and say, we've got this wonderful solution that's called planting trees. And that's gonna solve all of the issues that we've got. You know, we're certainly conscious not to do that. And I think that goes for everybody else too. At the same time, to not let any sort of pushback derail the intention and the ambition, you know, and to keep the ambition level high by working out what works in which location. And I mentioned a few examples today. You know, palm oil is an obvious one where rates of deforestation have significantly reduced in the palm oil sourcing regions of Indonesia and Malaysia through collective efforts over a long time, involving companies, suppliers, governments, and NGOs as well. And that was a pretty adversarial kind of type of relationship to begin with. Over time, you know, the sense of partnership is built whether it's with our company or with other companies sourcing from those regions. And the end result is positive, you know, in terms of reducing those negative impacts and then moving into a restorative phase.  But at the same time, listen and learn. That would be my conclusion. Thanks. Thanks, Laren. Thank you, Craig. And thank you, Melissa, in her absence. I found that fascinating. Also, thank you to everybody who's joined us either directly in the webinar or on the live stream. I also have an apology for those of you who tried to join the live stream early. So I understand there were some early teething issues in terms of setting things up. So you may have missed the very start. Do not worry. If you keep an eye on CISL's Nature Positive Hub on our website, you will find the recording of this streaming. So you can catch up on the early sections of this that you've missed. I just thank you. So thank you for your attention. Thank you for your engagement. But also thank you for the excellent questions that are surprising. Sorry, we didn't manage to get to all of them. I think we managed to engage with quite a few. I found that a fascinating and useful discussion. I think I really appreciated the breadth and different levels of engagement. But I'm just going to pick up on the very last thing that Owen said, because I thought that was a really important note to finish on. The example from Indonesia of actual practical impacts, the rates of deforestation falling, that's what we want to see. That's exactly so brilliant to hear that when this is done right, it can shift things. It can achieve those impacts that we're all working towards. Obviously, really important that we then think about how to expand and accelerate that and link it to other efforts so that we don't just reduce the rates of deforestation, but we turn that into ending and, in fact, restoring levels of forestry so that we get some of the benefits, both economic, social, climate impact, climate mitigation that the Craig has talked about so eloquently. But without too much further ado, we are at time. So I'm going to, again, say thank you to everyone who's involved and look forward to hearing from you and speaking to you at future events. Thank you very much. Thank you.


ght now and I do realize that we are over time but I am still looking at these questions that were sent to us from the town council and I'm just wondering if there's any way that even we can briefly go over them just because we're going to have to answer all of these to the town council formally before we have another meeting with the entire group and I don't know if anyone has like particular ways that they would like for us to answer these questions and then I'm also just looking at one very specific question that was posed with the SWG but it's about the Kahootz program and I'm just not even sure entirely how we would answer these questions or if these are things that we can pass to Seven Gen to see if that they can find a way to include those in their report or somehow or if there's just if we can get input from the group as to how you all would want us to move forward with answering these questions because they're they're going to have to be answered by or before Monday. Ms. Moisten. So can you see the questions up on the screen now? Okay and so I'll make them a little bigger because they're small and Seven Gen I just sent the questions over to you via email so they should be in your box for you guys to view later but here are the questions. I'm wondering you know make a suggestion for Seven Gen to pass with these questions. Will be my recommendation. We can all work together in a in a google doc. Ms. Ferreira and then I have a comment. Yeah I mean you know we still haven't talked about the presentation we haven't talked about the finance meeting. I mean I don't know if it's the best use of our time now to come sit here and look through all of these questions you said I'm saying I mean again I think what we've heard throughout the whole time is that yes you know we put together our recommendations we put together you know our presentation we're going to be having you know some questions that we need to work out I think the best way would be for us again to do it by email I don't know we have to answer these before Monday why can we answer them on Monday again I'm feeling rushed you know what I'm saying like we have to like come up with all these things you know on the fly and it's not fair to us you know we can answer them on Monday we can work on it over the weekend through email and we answer on Monday you know to them you know what I'm saying I agree I'm not willing I'm not willing to go here for another hour to go answer these questions I don't buy the town council it's it's not happening you know the email reads attach or some initial questions from the town council regarding the report from the cwg and the seven gen research it will be helpful but only to the extent possible to weave the answers to the questions into the presentation I don't know if that's helpful or not but it seems like you don't have to though because she said only to the extent possible so I don't know that these need to be weaved into the presentation for Monday yeah we can we can work on it and we can answer it these are questions right the questions they can pose them on Monday you know and we can answer them on Monday I don't feel again it's my only my voice and and so I guess my thing is this if you all I need to go I guess that's the bottom line I'm out you all continue doing what you need to do because I need to work on the other questions right the report that that needs to get done so my thing is we need to stick to our agenda which was you know let's work on the present you know the presentation I don't even know have you all finalized that or not you see what I'm saying and and and the questions we can work on it throughout the time but the those are my you're freezing you're freezing but before you leave oh if you live we have to uh end the meeting we have to end the meeting because we have to have four people well you can't make any votes you guys can talk you just can't make any votes Deb you're frozen and I don't know if you can hear us or not and can you shut off your video oh we can't hear you I know this is when you wish the chat was on oh the chat is not on then we can't have the chat one thing I want to suggest that might make things a little bit easier is if Alicia and I meet with seven Jen and we look over the questions and weave them into the presentation because the presentation is pretty done it's a lot of pictures shared by group members and um Alicia and I have started working on a script for each slide so we know what content to present where but I think that we should work with seven Jen to answer the questions didn't we say are we I guess the mode of uh of Monday didn't we say that each member will introduce themselves is that still happening or just you guys are talking throughout is that what it is so yeah I don't know oh we can hear you you're frozen again or we could miss pat to answer your question that was one of the things that I had under the the topics for the presentation I wanted to see if everybody wanted to come to the meeting I think in the beginning we all should introduce ourselves and another is she frozen again yeah go ahead brand um and then another question that I wanted to bring to the group I assumed at the beginning but I just wanted to double check Lynn asked us if we want to present at the beginning of the town council meeting or at the end they only have us that day I thought we're only meeting with them they have other agenda that day um let me double check the email but I do we can take as much time as we want on Monday that's my I think that was for the Fincom meeting oh okay miss Walker um yeah sorry so I was just also going to say that's for the finance committee meeting they posted a special meeting so that we could meet with the finance committee um I'm not sure for the about the full agenda for the um town council meeting however they did give us 45 minutes no more not to go over 45 minutes should we do it later or should we do it the first time don't don't when the first thing you should do it as soon as possible I thought I received an email that said 630 okay that you guys were scheduled for 630 okay okay let me double check that but I definitely suggest that you go early their meetings go till 10 11 o'clock at night and then the folks are you know a little bit tired and hangry and whatnot so um yep but let me look and see what and then terry I'm so sorry that you had problems I had originally posted all three meetings because we just had back to back and I was trying to get them out of the way but then we didn't have any links to them because I have to use the counselors links and they weren't posted yet and so I think what I must have posted this meeting on Monday or Tuesday so then I changed it to Monday so I apologize that that you didn't see that there um that it went back but please you can I can um just send those links to you guys to 7 gen or continue to send you guys the links and then I'm looking for Lynn right um miss walker thank you so I know we lost miss ferrer but I actually agree with everything she said I just wanted a consensus from the group because we won't have another time to meet before so I just wanted to know if everybody's okay with me and Brianna me and Brianna meeting with seven gen and just coming up with the answers ourselves or if people wanted to have input I just wanted consensus as to that so if everybody's okay with me and Brianna meeting with seven gen to come up with answers or making sure that these things are answered to the best of our ability in our presentation I think that's something we can try to do but also um just keeping in mind that tomorrow is Friday and the meeting is Monday so I don't know if seven gen or if everyone will be able to meet this weekend or what everyone's schedule is so I mean we can make decision we're only three of us that I'm okay for two of you to work on it yeah yeah and I'm there was a lot of talk about emails going back and forth so I just have to stress please don't send emails to everyone right like this is like a high in the but we're just a high visible ability right now and I don't want to have any issues or anybody think that somehow so that we're discredited and I have Lynn's email but this one was from 519 so which was yesterday and I just want to make sure you didn't have an early one bray okay Anna sorry no hey I'm back and you all hear me now yes oh my god you know I even tried to call in I mean this is ridiculous but anyway uh no so what are you all thinking about for now because like I said I can't stay long I'll stay just to kind of have quorum but what what are we trying to do here we agree with you to work on um actually after you left I think we're thinking for the the coach here to work with someone Jen on the school on the town council questionnaire okay okay good you and Ross work on your stuff and I will submit my stuff tonight okay okay that's good okay let's listen to you yeah you send it to both of us both of us to to uh Ross and and me is that okay can you just can you send it to me and like I'm pretty good at sending you guys the emails out when they come can we because there's two of you and I get a little we just get a little bit nervous it's not quite we just don't want any problems um Disha I think I believe it is Disha boss has her hand raised and so before I let her speak I I just have a couple of things one the email that I'm reading at says that you guys will be on the agenda for 7 30 p.m. or she's hoping to have you guys speak for 7 30 so their meeting starts at 6 30 so that's an hour into their meeting however anything could happen oh no she took her hand down um also I'm I'm like really confused and I'm sorry and I can check in with Paul about this tomorrow because I don't understand this level of detail all of a sudden that needs to be done and since none of this is going to happen tomorrow like the Crest program isn't going to be installed in tomorrow I'm not quite sure why you guys can't wait so can I can I just do a little bit of checking in with Paul and see what that's about because it doesn't make any sense to me yeah it really doesn't and you know I'll text them in a little bit but I it doesn't make sense I don't understand that so that was my question today the questions from time council no just the level of detail that we have to provide like so quickly like we have to do I have to have all the answers in terms of how great the program is going to be now I'm like yeah I don't understand who's asking for that because from my understanding is this the group that Paul has created and members from the cswg are supposed to fill in that detail so I don't really understand the detail if that makes sense um as time so I let me just check in with Paul um I'll try and send I'll send him a text and ask him about that because that doesn't um I don't I don't understand that so I think I remember a conversation in one of our meetings where we said it would be nice for the school for the time council to give us some you know their questions ahead of time so that we can prepare isn't that the question that they forwarded to us um that's what it was but I don't think that you know we can realistically hand it over to them before the meeting on Monday but we can prepare and have our representative you know deliver you know like explain it presented to to them on Monday I think we we initiated that cswg we initiated that for them to give us uh question their questions so that we can be prepared so I think you guys can answer those questions without it being I mean but I'm so sorry to have miss Freyar go ahead no I mean I think I think what I thought what you were asking uh miss moison was more so around why we having to present this level of detail right because remember the document that that Russ and I are going to be working on is is providing a whole other level of detail I don't you're right miss pat the questions we did initiate the questions we asked them are there any questions so we can think about beforehand but for me I wasn't planning to answer those questions before Monday yeah give us those questions so that we can have it right and be ready and prepared to respond to them but I'm not trying to answer it before Monday because Monday is when I'm presenting to you so I'm saying so so for me those are the two things why are we presenting this level of detail about the program and two great thank you for the questions but I'll answer them on Monday thank you for so that I can we can have forethought on it and we can be prepared but that doesn't mean I need to submit it to you before Monday but I also don't think they're asking you to submit the questions by before Monday that's not what they're asking they want them if possible implemented into the presentation so they don't I think the so that's not an issue and and actually I should look at again at the questions because I'm not quite sure but some of them seems like you guys could answer within the presentation if it's not already there and they just didn't really see that but um yeah I'm emailing Paul now or I'm texting Paul now because I just I don't understand the detail is the doctor Dr. Shabazz wait wait wait before before Dr. Shabazz comes in please but as I'm going to be leaving is um what are we doing I mean do you all need the co-chairs I know you all are presenting I know we're all going to be there but you need anything from us in terms of the presentation I haven't seen the final presentation so I don't even know you know the full thing so I'm kind of like do you need anything from us for the presentation for the town council and then we also have the presentation for the fine finance committee do you need anything from us from that are we expected to speak at it you want help answering questions I think for me that's more the critical thing so that I can kind of be prepared for Monday so for Monday you guys have all given well you guys have all sent me pictures to help with the visual with the visual part of the presentation for Monday so our presentation is for the most part our recommendations um sort of a build-up pictures from that you all shared and I can share that with you guys um tonight after this meeting um I think it would be I other group members I think we agreed for everybody to be at the presentation I would like every group member to introduce themselves in the beginning of the presentation so the town council can put a face to the name and sort of know us a little bit and also I would want group members to stay to answer questions at the end if you all are comfortable with that okay all right so you all you all are comfortable with doing the presentation itself you're you're with that okay and then for the finance committee one of Lynn's questions was whether or not um CSWG members were coming with um Alicia and I so um for the finance committee what Lynn sent me last was that this presentation should be shorter the finance committee will have already heard our recommendations at the town council meeting and have those have the presentation the materials in their packet and that that presentation should more so be about Cress and we'll be there excuse me for the uh finance committee why only Cress so that was my question for this evening and I was a little bit wait wait wait okay okay Alicia wants to speak I will I will wait no no no no no no sorry thank you miss pat um I just have a couple of quick comments um one I just wanted to say like yes miss moison I would like for you to ask mr bakerman I think that's very helpful because I was also confused about that and some of these we can absolutely answer and I think some of them are already answered in our presentation but there are like certain one certain questions like for example if Cress were to be phased what would be the minimum staffing to start in the first year like I'm just not sure how I am supposed to answer that question right and so I would just be uncomfortable answering on behalf of the group without any group input beforehand so that was the reason why I brought it up um at this meeting but I think like now also hearing what everybody else is saying that it's not the end all be all if we don't have the answer to every single one of these questions so that was just my only concern and I don't want to lose credibility because these are the questions that people have that is putting them in the gray area so like if it's a matter of whether or not a person is in support of us like whether or not they have an answer to this question then I would like to provide them with an answer if that is the barrier so that was my question but I think we're solved on that and then also um oh sorry I lost the second half of my okay oh for the presentation I was thinking have everybody come and talk and that we would maybe just have one prompting question that we could all answer like why you joined the group or why this is important to you just something that you could talk for like one minute very quickly before the presentation and maybe Brianna and I can come up with a specific question and send it out to everybody just to like narrow down the talking space but we want it to be personal and whatever you feel like sharing um and there is something else but I forget so I will just pass it to Miss Pat. Okay so um the fact that you know finance committee only wants to hear for uh uh only press I don't agree with that they have to listen to all our budget because I mean this is power dynamics you have white folks telling bifolk uh uh board that was appointed for us not to do all our presentation I don't agree with that yeah no but so so to kind of yeah that was my question coming into the night and I and I assumed that Mr. Backelman would be here to answer it I'm going to read the email from Lynn the line that's most important she said I urge that the presentation to the finance committee be much shorter and focus on the item in the budget community services social services community responders there are a lot of details that need to be developed around this program and you should not be expected to provide all of them so I was hoping at this meeting Mr. Backelman could provide clarity as to whether we are presenting just the press or all three or the details that's the part that I'm confused about so I I'm just going to say that I don't know how you we changed the meetings to Thursday and he wasn't here I don't think that he was here when we did that and he already had has a standing pre something that he was already doing so I don't know how many times he I don't know how often he'll be on a Thursday meeting like he'll be at next Wednesdays but I don't know that he'll be at Thursdays and I would just say present everything at once to the finance committee yeah that's what I would say too yeah can we can we take a vote right now let's take a vote right don't think you need to take a vote on that don't make me do a motion yeah yeah I think I think we just need to we just need to present everything for the finance committee present our recommendations you know because that's that's what we're asking for and we can iron out and answer any questions in regards to our recommendations not just press can I propose that you know our coach here send an email to them what we're planning to do to them because we'll be representing the whole you know budget so that it won't be a surprise to them yeah to the Fincom yeah finance yeah finance committee yeah I don't know I don't know you don't know what I don't know I'm being recorded I can't say anything so um I know you should tell them but listen I think that it's very important that anytime that you guys present this your recommendations that you present all of the recommendations they cannot because even though like tomorrow we're not going to set up a BIPOC multicultural center it has to be part of the plan moving forward you can't take one without the other you absolutely have to take them all at one time so that you can do like a blueprint right yeah and so I that's yeah yeah and that has to be and that has to be documented it has to be put in that that's what we want is for them to put a timeline the blueprint the when are certain things going to get done the objectives the goals by when and so on so forth and that's when and that's where Matthew from human rights commission was very clear about which we have to think about right it's six years from now let's say we all move move away from Amherst and there's another group that's doing this work what are they going to look at right exactly what did the town agree to what did we recommend and another group has to be able to look at that and then move forward with it so that's why it's very important that we bring up all our recommendations and and talk about the budget in total not just crest yeah because like for you know for white dominated board to tell bifurc board what to do is unacceptable they are accepted folks they can be replaced yeah it's unacceptable period yeah yeah miss walker thank you i'm so sorry i just remembered the last thing i was going to say so i actually agree with what everyone's saying i think we should um present all of our recommendations and all of our budgets to the finance committee as well i think the idea the reason why people just wanted the crest program is because that's the only thing that's already in the budget and so that's why they wanted us to only speak to that but so the document that debora and russ are working on i think that was more geared towards going to our finance committee meeting and less geared towards the presentation that we be giving to the town council so that means then if we're providing more detail about press then we'd have to be providing more detail about the other programs too that's right that's right because that's the thing i mean we can't just because we already know that them just doing the line item of 130 for crest that was abominable that was an insult you know it was an insult to all of us because there you go oh and they did 30 000 right to a coordinator for for equity in inclusion we can't forget that too that that's abominable too so that's the thing that we have to basically point out is just like okay we're providing if you want answers to questions it has to be answers to questions to towards everything because if we give them an inch they'll take a mile if we just focus on crest that's the only thing they'll focus on they'll focus focus on anything else yeah i just briana i think that you should put when you respond to lin or to the finance committee or whomever i think you need to explain that you can't just take one right like you have to take the whole thing and we understand that you're not going to make all of the changes or fund everything at this moment we understand that but you can't take just a piece of it you have to take the whole thing it well but miss moison i would i would i wouldn't even put that there we understand that you're not going to fund it oh you don't have to understand you don't have to say is that hey listen we're going to be doing our whole budget because this is what we this is what we this is what this community needs no i i get that because i get that i mean this is what i mean paul was the one that made those those recommendations we're trying to overthrow that we're trying to be like no we want some funding to go through towards these programs both we go into the whole thing by saying that we understand that you can't fund it then they're gonna be like okay then you're in agreement with it uh uh yeah i'm forgetting where we're at with that so but you're right about that no i understand but i you you definitely should let them know they can't take one without the other okay i can definitely respond to lin then and let her know that ahead of time too that's what i was confused about and i was i kind of felt like the way that we are being pressed for details on crest was their way of ignoring our other recommendations but when i attended the town council meeting there was support from the community for not just the crest program but all of our recommendations exactly but for the detail i think for the finance committee right now i'm not getting it because i wasn't understanding that either so the thing that that russ and i are working on is deep for the detail for the finance committee right that's what you were saying brianna yeah but they want detail and and and the way i mean like honestly it's the finance committee so they should only be concerned with the funds and i felt like there was a pressure on our group to come up because they gave us such little money oh so details so that they can they can and you know say okay we do have to give them money for this purpose she's still here but she doesn't have her hand raised uh she doesn't have her hand raised oh okay sorry miss walkard has her hand raised okay sorry um thank you so i was just commenting also towards the finance committee meeting so i just think they wanted more detail because we have to explain to them the need for the increased budget so that's where the detail was coming into play um but then that also leads me to have questions about if we're going to be presenting the need for money and funding for all of our recommendations then will they be looking for detail from those as well or because they already haven't given us anything just what we have will be enough to ask for something there's not much detail at least with the multicultural center i think it was already explained the staffing what the services is doing like so um that's very straightforward i think the most complicated one is crest that um to me it's not because i'm i'm in mental health you know i'm i'm also i've had experiences with developing programs um so i don't know what kind of details they need for multicultural or the youth center we just present you know what we wrote that said yeah i don't i think the crest is pretty self-explanatory like i don't know i don't um yeah i don't know but i think i think it's because it encroaches upon what the police does i think that's going to be the the big thing the sticky point right so i think that's why they want more details because of that reason the counter is the police shouldn't be doing mental health work right isn't that that's the purpose but but i think that's the thing that we got to be clear on it's not just mental health work right it's not but but that's the bigger piece and so i it just seems like that is the level of detail right there like they the police officers shouldn't they're not social workers right and so they shouldn't be dealing with abc and d why would we have them deal with abc and d if so i have a question for the coaches what what do you need from from the rest of the cswg members what do you need from us how can we support you know support you so the only things that i wanted to bring up tonight is what you guys already answered to see if you guys would be able to come to the town council meeting and be a part of the presentation and set up some sort of prompt so everybody gets a chance to talk and then to see whether or not members wanted to come to the finance committee meeting yeah me too i'm planning to attend both yeah and i think i think what would be helpful is just kind of whatever you all need from us just send an email to all of us and then i this i can already you know be thinking figure out whatever prompt you want you know if you all are the co-chairs just put out the prompt and then we'll think about it and then say to us that to be prepared to also help answer questions and everything and then and then have a way of how you're going to do that right because you all are the co-chair so the questions are going to come to you because we don't want it to be a a free for all right where we're kind of interjecting both two people are going to talk or whatever so what you want to do is also in your email explain to us how you want that done right that the town council will present the questions to the two of you right and then if you don't want to answer it or if you feel like someone else in our group would probably be better answer it just then open it up and say hey is it maybe one of the other members of CSWG will be willing to answer this one and then whomever right miss pat myself mr verner jones will jump in but but but the question just so just have a format just say hey when they present the question it comes first either we're going to answer it or we're going to you know we're going to open it up to the rest of the CSWG members because then we know as opposed to us staying there kind of like okay should we answer should we not and you know what i'm saying so just just put that all in an email and then and then we got you because this is a this is a group effort yeah just don't reply all please i miss my son is very no no no we won't reply all it will be just them sending it to us and including you on it jennifer but then yeah i just don't reply all no we won't if anything if i reply i'll just i can reply though to rana and alisha and then see you like we usually yeah yeah yeah but it's so when you do it like that sometimes people are so quick to hit just reply all and and so yeah yeah no it's a good reminder thank you so i want to thank the coach yes like i know this has been very stressful month you know for everyone it's ready for two of you in particular so you know i'm here for your support if you ever want to you know just reach out to me um care you know self care is very important in this work that we're doing very very important oh wait i got it right not only do we need to go have margaritas when this is all done but like just a little a little zen right a little zen but uh but me too rana and alisha thank you all as i say you know and i'll say it you know the younger generation right you all are not the leaders of tomorrow you're the leaders of today so thank you for being the leaders and you know and we you know we're gonna do this this is very needed this is critical we have to do this right now you know it's not anything that can wait um people as we know there's so much pain already and this is something that that needs to happen so for us we just have to stand in that truth right and speaking as they say it's speaking truth to power and that's what we got to keep on remembering right so that folks are not just pushing us around and saying well you know like we're going to be jumping through hoops or we're you know like we're puppets and stuff na na na we got to stay focused and and make sure that that that's the way we do it and at the end of the day let's say the town council poses a question and we don't have the answer because again we we were we did our charge right which was to make the recommendations based on all the research we might not have all the answers then we say hey we won't get you know we won't we don't have a response today but we'll get it to you you know afterwards and that's the way we respond to it and we move on from there because again this was a tall order we heard all the community members that we spoke with today they told us that right we've done so much in such a short period of time what we need to do is pat ourselves in the back and feel very proud and do what we can at this moment and we'll be ready we'll be ready on Monday okay and you know I'm repeating what Deborah said if they ask us questions we don't have immediate answer for we can get back to them right there okay how are you guys feeling the two coaches good feeling I feel a lot better about this than I did before there's just a lot happening right now and so and I want I worry about representing the entire group and so I just always have hesitation in moving forward without feedback from everybody so this is just reassuring oh thank you guys at least should you represent the group well when you speak I just have a couple of logistical questions because we've got like back to back meet you guys just back to back meetings next week so we're meeting on Monday that's a meeting I'll post because there'll be a quorum of you and then you guys are meeting on Wednesday for your regular scheduled meeting correct and that time is isn't it Thursday no Fincom is Thursday oh all right so good thing you pointed that out because I was thinking it's at six o'clock on Wednesday thank you for the reminder okay and then Fincom is 6 30 I don't know I think there are six also on day six I don't know I can go back to uh there's an email that Lynn sent out about choosing the time but I'll look at another meeting because that's how we figured it out I just need to know I'd rather just post it all tomorrow and just you know okay sounds good all right folks I have to definitely go I have my son over here looking at me and giving me some dirty looks do we do a quick question do we really want to meet next week on our regular meeting since we have two meetings next week but you guys will need to right after the present you're like because when you meet with the town council whatever gaps or whatever that happens there you'll be able to degrade like to figure out in that meeting to present it to the Fincom the next day so we we only have two meetings next week not our regular meeting no you have three meetings next week that's what I'm trying to say can we just not do our regular meeting next week well but that's what but that's what Jennifer's saying she's saying that we do need it because between the town council and the finance committee we might need to kind of regroup based on whatever questions we get and you know and things like that you know we might need to regroup and kind of be really ready for the for the finance committee meeting yeah so then when are you when are you proposing that we meet though Jennifer because now we're meeting Monday then we're meeting Wednesday so you're saying we meet Tuesday no you meet Monday Wednesday Thursday okay but I thought the finance committee meeting was on Wednesday when is it no the finance committee is I know so Monday you guys have town council yeah Wednesday you have your regular scheduled meeting at 6 p.m okay and Thursday's town council I mean it makes sense if you guys don't want to I mean is town council and Fincom okay got it yeah I mean I'm fine with that but just can you send something because I was totally confused about I don't want people to burn out that's what I'm saying I don't think we need for us to meet on Wednesday people don't mind I'm I'd like to propose Monday and Thursday next week only it's up to you guys it really is it's fine I just thank you I'm I'm okay with not meeting if that's what everybody else wants to do but before Ms. Pat said that I was going to suggest that if we just do a light meeting like just have one thing on the agenda any questions or comments in regards to the um presentation on Monday since we won't have time to regroup afterward and maybe just have it be a brief discussion and follow up on that and not an entire full meeting if that's possible yeah I think I think I think it'll be important to meet at least from six to seven on Wednesday why don't we just put it like one issue which is just kind of like you know whatever other things yeah debrief and any other things we need to kind of talk about in preparation for the for the finance committee agenda yeah well there's always an agenda just one item is debrief from you know got you okay let's do that yeah I won't send no minutes because you know yeah I know okay folks I'm gonna go thank you all bye bye I'll move the meeting I'll move the meeting it's a closure oh okay oh thank you thank you miss pat thank you everybody


Online education has grown in popularity and reports in the United States and Canada position online education as an important element in the long-term strategy of universities and colleges. If teaching online is becoming a key part of instructional roles, understanding what faculty think about online education is important. In order to understand how faculty opinions around the quality of online education have changed over time, we explored the survey of faculty attitudes on technology. This survey is conducted annually by Inside Higher Ed, an education media group that reports on trends in higher education. This survey has been conducted every year since 2013 and asks a number of questions that relate specifically to the quality of online education. Two of the most important responsibilities for faculty members are meeting student learning outcomes and making sure that they are providing high quality teaching. When faculty were asked whether or not they believe that online education can meet student learning outcomes, as well as face-to-face instruction can, it appears that faculty aren't quite convinced that this is the case. Over half of faculty disagreed with this statement. We are seeing a shift over time, though, with increasing percentages of faculty agreeing that online courses can achieve learning outcomes that are similar to those in face-to-face courses. Faculty beliefs around the quality of online courses are improving with time, but this change is happening at a very modest pace. The surveys also ask questions about aspects of teaching and learning in online education. Faculty were asked if online education was better, the same, or of lesser quality than face-to-face education. Even though results fluctuate from year to year, the percentage of faculty who believe online education is of similar quality to face-to-face education is rising. There were two areas where faculty believe online education didn't quite match face-to-face teaching. Those areas were the following, meeting learning objectives and interacting with students during class. On the other hand, in other areas, results showed that faculty believe online learning really excels. The majority of faculty thought online learning was the same or better than face-to-face learning when grading and communicating grades, communicating with the college or university, and the ability for faculty to reach exceptional students. These are just a few of the areas where faculty responded more positively over time. What do these findings mean for faculty, universities, and students? Faculty perceptions about online education seem to be slowly improving. We don't know if this is due to increased faculty exposure to online education or increased quality over time, but it seems that faculty are becoming more confident in the quality of online education. We have a lot more to do if we want to understand why faculty feel this way. We need to conduct research which will help us understand what guides faculty perceptions of quality and what institutions can do to improve quality. There's plenty of room for growth here. Thanks a lot for tuning in. If you liked this research short, please share it with your friends, colleagues, and students.


we'll be jumping out of a C-130. Training that we're going to be doing today is going to be static line airborne operations. It's really just to keep currency and make sure that everyone's still in tune with what we need to do if the circumstance does arise that we do have to jump. The line that they currently have attached to their chute will be connected to the aircraft. Once they jump out of the aircraft, the line will stay connected to the aircraft and it will deploy the chutes for them. The more we do something and it becomes a muscle memory, it's going to build their confidence and that's the one less thing that they're going to have to worry about whenever they're conducting their operations. The better they're able to accomplish the mission and more safely, better odds they're going to be able to come back home safely to their families. Jumpmaster is one of the senior jumpers within the unit. They're tasked with helping these guys get rigged up. They conduct what's called a JMPI jumpmaster inspection to ensure a successful airborne operation. In the aircraft, they're the ones that give the jump commands to the jumpers. They're the ones that ensure that safety is being maintained while in the air and there's the last paratrooper out the door following the rest of the stick.  It doesn't hit you typically until you're up in the air and you're about to jump. But I mean, after a while you kind of just get used to it and then it starts becoming fun. You know, the airborne program, it's a small tight-knit community. We're very fortunate here to have such a great jumpmaster team and have this group of paratroopers. A lot of great jumpmasters, motivated paratroopers, and we're ready to go out and have a good jump today.


Making financial New Year's resolutions is never an easy feat, but it's important. Here now is Lee McAdoo, Managing Director of Investor Education at TD Ameritrade. So Lee, the New Year is a great time to take stock of your finances, especially when it comes to investing. What's the first step? Well, there's always things you should do at the beginning of the New Year. So, you know, definitely log into your accounts, check your balances, make sure your goals are on track. If you want to auto deduct anything from your paycheck, make sure you're doing that. Make sure your goals are aligned with what you want to be doing in the coming year. But in terms of education, there's always an opportunity to learn more. And so it's important to take stock. What do I know? What do I want to know? Are there terms you're reading about? Things you're reading about in the news that you want to learn more about? And at TD Ameritrade, we have everything from really short videos to long courses and webcasts and live events that can help you do just that. Because it's essentially a second language, right? It really is. I mean, there's a lot of jargon in this industry. Let's be, you know, honest about that. And, you know, it seems very complicated, but when you can break it down into little steps and make it easier for our clients, they really value that part of the offering at TD Ameritrade. You know, and when we see milestones like Dow 25,000, does it excite people who maybe were hesitant or worried about investing? Maybe now they come in this fear of missing out phenomenon. We're seeing great engagement from our clients in January. We always typically do that because it's a time to refresh and renew and think about your personal health, your financial health. But certainly the events in the market really over the last year have driven really quite broad engagement from our clients. Are there certain rules of thumb for investing for beginners? We always hear save 10% of your income, things like that. We don't really spend so much time building a rule set so much as really informing clients. So our clients are prospects that are outside of TD Ameritrade. They're looking at things like what's a brokerage account? How do I look at an IRA? Clients internally are doing things more like, okay, now I know a little bit about investing in equities. How do I learn about this options thing? What's a cover call? That kind of stuff. And also, how do you stick with your investing goals, right? Because it's great to take that first step and get into the markets. But how do you follow through? Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the great things about having a community of 11 million investors at TD Ameritrade. So with our education offering, they're attending webcasts together. They're following individual coaches. They're going to live events together for people in their area. And I think by holding each other accountable, you can better stick to those goals. All right. Lee McAdoo, some good advice. Thanks for joining us. Thanks, Scott.


Give us a thumbs up if you used to be scared of cooties as a kid I know I was but things change the older we get we grow curious about others and sometimes when love is in the air It leads to kissing who knew that's something that seems so gross before could become heart-stopping and butterfly-inducing Here are six juicy facts about kissing One you learn to kiss before you were even born Sounds weird, right? But according to German researcher, he discovered that two-thirds of the hundreds of couples he observed Tilted their heads to the right. He theorizes that this instinct stems from the time we were in the womb Where we naturally tilt our heads in the same direction Two kissing is actually good for you Except when you're sick, of course But seriously the list of kissing benefits seems endless as a natural face workout It can help you burn between two to twenty six calories per minute prevents cavities from developing Thanks to saliva production and reduces your stress and anxiety levels We also want to point out that your lips are 100 times more sensitive than your fingertips So the more you kiss the more your endorphins are released making you feel happier. Maybe romance really does heal Three you can make a career out of kissing. It's called philometology and it's the scientific study of kissing Experts say it mainly originated from the Western world where people are more open to displaying public affection But as the practice grew and people were curious to learn more about it Philometology eventually spread to places like Japan and Africa, too Who says kissing only had to be reserved for love when you can make a living out of it Four we kissed long before we knew how to read or write You see it at the end of personalized cards and letters all the time.  Also, have you seen our video on five differences between having a crush and falling in love? Please subscribe to join our community of psych to goers. We have kisses


To me, color is like musical notes and I can hear them and I always hear them. For me, my fascination with typography and lettering goes back to the first time I realized that one of the first activities that men did was to record their thoughts and feelings on cave walls. These marks that they made on the walls in a way were kind of magical. There's a direct line that goes from that time to now and except that I feel like some of that magic has been lost. When I first started working in the design world, the predominant way of designing was Swiss design, a lot of Helvetica. Everything lined up with a grid and I felt that this was very stiff and what I really wanted to go for was, in a word, was freedom. I felt I was almost forced to start doing my own letter forms, which in turn always went back to everything that I had experienced and stored away when I was a kid. When I was eight years old, my dad, who was a writer, decided to do a wonderful thing for the two of us and he wrote a story called Two Boys on a Dinosaur. The story was about my brother Peter and I flying around in our spaceship. We land in the Gobi Desert. What do you know but that we find a dinosaur egg? And what happens afterwards is all kinds of complications ensue and it's all very fantastic and wonderful. Reading this book as an adult, I realized that my dad really got who I was. He understood my introverted nature and how I would fixate on things. In the 50s, I was surrounded by all kinds of incredible visual stimuli, whether it was the side of the good humor truck or a billboard that I would see on Times Square. I would just tend to focus in on these things and somehow absorb them. I was fascinated with the stars, with astronomy, with outer space. The way I use certain shapes, like circles, which appear to dominate a lot of my work, which is completely on a subconscious level. But I think it has a lot to do with my striving for some sort of mathematical perfection in the work. This is what I call a mechanical, which is really color separations. It's how I used to prepare my artwork for printing before the advent of the computer. There are copious notes, most of which refer to color. Here we see pantone chips that I've put for reference for the engraver, and I've also noted process color. Then hinged from four different sides of this mechanical are these vellum overlays on which I've done my inking. Each overlay is registered to each other overlay with these three register marks. Now I'll just lift these so you can see how I've hinged them from north, east, west and south. And finally reaching the bottom, which is just a texture over which all the artwork exists. I've had to make sure that in my inking that every place where a color butts up against another color is perfectly aligned. So, again, this process was extremely time consuming. A mechanical like this could have taken me anywhere from 20 to 40 hours of labor to do. My job is to solve another person's problem. What do they want to communicate? How do they want to appear to the world? And can I do that and still be true to my own vision? That's the complicated aspect of what I do. I might start out with a very simple idea or concept, but somehow in some way a lot of these designs take on a life of their own. And they almost direct me to do certain things. And as a result, a lot of my pieces have gotten to be pretty complicated pieces. Most people are very familiar with the first cover I did for Kiss for Rockin' Well Over. They had no idea what they wanted it to be. You know, I just asked a lot of questions about what they wanted to communicate. And when I finally came up with it, it was not anything like they would have imagined, but they loved it. I always end up surprising my clients with things that, and I do enjoy that, especially when that surprise turns into approval. My mission that I feel is to try to put back some of that fascination, some of that fantastic qualities into letter forms and allow them to speak. Not just as consonants or vowels, but in a way almost like ancient pictograms where they're telling a story. And it's not just the story that the letters spell out. When I get fan mail and they may say something that lets me understand that they really get what I was trying to do, that's worth more than the paycheck I get for doing that job. Saul, my art teacher, told me my parents had come to him. They wanted me to go to law school, and he convinced them that's not where my talents lie. That if I tried, I would get into Cooper Union, which would be free. And of course that sold them. He was responsible for what I eventually became.