Good morning, good afternoon and good evening to everyone and welcome to this webinar today on payments for net zero, how payments industry can contribute to the transition to a net zero economy. By way of very quick introduction. My name is Catherine Brown. I am the head of inclusive impact and sustainability at visa based in Europe. And I'm very delighted today to be joining you with an exceptional panel, which I will introduce in a moment. We have a very, very large group tuning in to us this this day to learn about this new report that has just been released. Just some housekeeping tips you should all see on your screen at the moment. If you are having any issues hearing us, please do send the host for this meeting and message. We will make sure to help you with your with your issues as soon as possible. We are recording this as well. So if it turns out that something is happening to your device and you cannot follow us straight through. Don't worry. You can listen in at your leisure at a later stage. So, just to kick us off this, this day, just for by way of brief introduction to the topic at visa, we are working toward building a more inclusive, equitable and sustainable world. One in which people businesses and communities can thrive and also one in which our planet thrives. Very importantly, as a global society, we have a lot of work to do towards these goals and old tech at all time record high global temperatures extreme weather events by diversity loss. It's just the beginning of what's happening these years. Each year we have a collective collective global society issue that we're trying to address exceeding the carrying capacity of our planet. And because of this issue that we're facing, which once felt far off and removed today feel very, very real, as you will know, but thankfully there is a global growing global focus on the urgency of taking critical sustainability and climate action now, and to make the 2020s the decisive decade of action. And that we're fully committed to our role within that. Experts agree that the meeting of net zero 20 to 50 targets will require far reaching social, economic and regulatory and of course technological changes in order to avoid locking the world into the accelerating and irreversible impacts of climate change. The developments have demonstrated that urgency more clearly than November's COP 26 summit to align national contributions pledges and financing needs to stay well below the two degree increase in global temperatures. The resulting grounds well gives particular rise to everyone everywhere to articulate their role and to take action now, and this grounds well is unlikely to debate. So in rather timely fashion, the role of payments in the net zero transition is the focus of this new report produced by the University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainable Leadership in collaboration with visa. The report is underpinned by stakeholder interviews and existing research and is one of its basically the first of its kind actually to explore the role of digital payments in supporting the drive to net zero. One of the best parts about working for a business in a central role in the global payments ecosystem, which is often operating as a network of networks is that we have the privilege of bringing together stakeholders from across our network to affect real change. And I am delighted to have with me today virtually. It's truly fascinating panel, including these are clients partners and co thought leaders, all of whom offer unique points of view on various aspects of the challenges and opportunities of using data in this context. So with us today, we have Thomas Deloason, the director of mobility at World Business Council for Sustainable Development WPCSD as many people know it. Alvaro Fernandez Belando, who is the head of models and data for Santander in Spain. David Lice, who is co founder and CPO of ecolytic and for Spain Kellard, the director of business strategy at Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership, or CISL. So I will ask each of our panelists to introduce themselves further as they answer their first question is everyone comes to the table with incredible backgrounds in this space. But then, if I may, I would like to first turn to you to help us make better sense of the macro landscape around net zero and the opportunity for payments networks to play a crucial role in facilitating the transition to net zero. Perhaps you can give us office and some thoughts in that space. Thanks, Catherine. Yeah. And I think what's really interesting is particularly following copies that the fields are the directions now set the direction travel is set for decarbonizing the economy. The question is how fast and by when and clearly here in Europe and the UK. That's now part of our laws to be net zero by 2050. And according to the race to zero, we've now have 733 cities, 31 regions and over 3000 companies and 173 big investors all with net zero goals and that's, you know, and counting. We've got, you know, investors coming out of cop work that manage around 130 trillion of assets under management responsible for around two fifths of the world's financial assets. We're not signing up to net zero goals. So I think the direction of travel is clear. So what does that mean for payments? I mean, I think that what's really interesting is the payments is, is obviously underpins our economy. And the, the issue isn't that there aren't enough opportunities.  So is payment. It's like, where do we focus. And so I think if we look at where those big carbon impacts are, and where is the role that payments intersect, that's how we sort of came up with these sort of four, probably key areas, which is around the sharing economy, urban mobility. And then also how that data can be used to provide, you know, whether that's companies, regulators, city authorities and so on insights to in order to make decisions. We can also enable retail bankings for their own shift to support that move to sustainable and low carbon economy. And also, if we look at the consumer data, we get consistently getting insights that, you know, the vast majority of citizens are really concerned about climate change want to play their role but don't feel there are real credible options out there. So, so I think this adds up to this huge opportunity for payments to be enabling these sort of emerging solutions to really go to the next level. And I think that's really the sort of the opportunity that really sort of surface I think to this through this report. Absolutely, Ben, I think what I also really appreciated, and there were there were a lot of really fantastic data points that emerged from the research in particular I think one that really caught my eye was that 80% of respondents wanted us to be understanding as much of a climate action as we were to covert, for example, saying, you know, how can we, we've done so much in responding to this pandemic. Can we not carry that over to how we look at climate action, and specifically in the role of payments and closing off. What is you very well in this report as well, identify the opportunity gap that that does not allow people to take the next step in making this there's a lot of action there's a lot of interest, but how do we translate that into action how do we empower citizens how do we provide these that driven insights and how do we actually create very rich partnerships and opportunities for collaboration, and how do voices of large corporates like visa, for example, use their influence to drive that narrative and try that advocacy so those four main headlines if you will of how we can limit that space, really fundamentally important for then even getting into specific industry actions it sounds like you have a comment that it looks like rather. Yeah, and that's right because often what we're seeing is that where if you like the actions happening where we're seeing these emerging solutions to create let's call them maybe net zero solutions some of which are clear some are still very nascent where you within the traditional stakeholder for party model of the payments payments network so not necessarily with those issuing banks and so on they're often helping in turn those people like say transit providers or even car manufacturers and so on who actually want to create these sort of transitions so you're right I think there's that opportunity and a need for I think a common language so that both people trying to change the real economy. I can understand the role payments can make and for payments professionals to see to articulate to non payments stakeholders what role they can play as you say and I think that's one of the things that's hopefully helpful in the report is as you think about those four key roles that the payments sex can play as a common language between stakeholders that don't necessarily fully understand each other's areas of expertise. Absolutely, I guess in the spirit of full disclosure as well, relatively new to visa having come from the world economic forum which you know is very much known for multi stakeholder systems level thinking and collaboration in particular this is an opportunity for all to realize that this is an ecosystem challenge, everyone must step outside of the comfort zone of the four party party model to really leverage the impact that this industry can have for the challenge with that hand so it's a really very important point to underscore this is assistance level issue and does require thinking outside of the four party box, and the issues are the topics that we actually can lean in on very particularly. And you have done in this report as well I think we're incredibly pressure is the good starting points Toma, I'm going to come to you first from the PCS these perspective in terms of the specific domain around low carbon transport urban mobility because 60% of global greenhouse gas emissions come from motorized vehicles resulting in very dangerous trends towards their pollution. That's the downside. Now, the upside is the global market for transit is in tremendous growth phase as well so we've voted 413 billion in 2020 up to 630 billion roughly by 2025. So there is tremendous opportunity there too. So I invite you to to share some of your comments. Yeah, thank you very much Catherine and thank you for the invitation we are obviously really happy to contribute to this event from the World Business Council. We are a not for profit organization just to give a little bit of background and we gather the leading CEOs together in the collaborative space so that we can advance their answer in addressing climate nature and inequality imperative. That's really our motto so that we can achieve a vision in which nine and a half billion of people live within the boundaries of the planet by 2050. And when it comes to transport really I think the narrative is fairly simple. Exactly as you mentioned Catherine just now there is tremendous growth that is forecasted towards the mid century that is mostly going to come from developing countries. Nevertheless, a lot of the focus is happening on road transport and urban road transport in particular because this is really where a lot of the emissions are coming from when it comes to the priorities on where to act. I think we all have in mind the idea of electrification and moving to zero emission technologies for the vehicles as quickly as we can. But we also know at the World Business Council and together with most of our partners now that this is not going to be enough to remain within a one and a half degree trajectory for the transport sector. This needs to be accompanied with tremendous improvements in what we call the efficiency of transport which essentially means traveling more with less impact and if you should take a step back this means decoupling the growth that I've just talked about with the impact that it actually creates. And that in our opinion can only happen through digitalization. And that's where payment is of high importance because as Ben has mentioned payment is on the pinning all sectors of our economy. And in the case of mobility or urban and road based mobility clearly payment is at the core of what many have called mobility as a service which essentially is multimodality. But in an integrated manner you will have heard about seamless mobility and obviously payment is one of these elements that make mobility as a service seamless. Another one clearly is around the access to cities. We've seen so many cities now moving into zero emission zones, even banning access of cars to their city centers. Managing space and managing tolls I think the people based in London will know that there is a digital system and a payment system attached to this notion of access. The other one that we see where payment is actually critical and starting to emerge in Europe is what we've called the mobility wallets and what connects to the to the related emissions we've seen many companies and actually startups now rushing into that space in providing solutions for companies to change the way their employees are commuting, which is obviously one of the key reasons for us to travel. And this is another area where payments and the related data can actually help to reduce carbon emissions by providing better information and empowering citizens in the way they actually consume and move or consume mobility services. The other area where payment is extremely interesting is down to the planning and management of mobility. I've talked about just a second ago about the electric vehicles and the transition to zero emission technologies. We will not be able to plan adequately at the pace that is required the charging infrastructure for electric vehicles without sharing data, including payments data to better understand the patterns of usage of electric vehicles so that we can plan in the space in the city space, which is very scarce, the right locations for charging infrastructure. But beyond just this this example of electric vehicle charging infrastructure planning, the simple usage of payments data for the better capacity management in public transit could also be very useful to adapt real time, the capacity of transit to the demand or to specific conditions. And of course to support also adequate policymaking, whether it's on tariff or specific access rules again. We see really payment data taking a major role as part of these use cases I've just mentioned. And obviously all of that requires this data to be shared so this is really perhaps the space where we need to move the discussion to is this how do we share this data how do we enable these ecosystems to to emerge. It's absolutely very good point them as well because especially government spending or government budgets around infrastructure planning is incredibly expensive to make a mistake on that one very hard to go back and re-plan this so the ability to make data driven decisions ahead of that planning is a real efficiency play for a number of different entities in that equation so really a fundamental ask I'm going to come back to you later in particular on this mobility as a service concept as we start talking about other elements that we talked about but let's go back to Alvaro actually because again on the data front now you are representing sometime there and the opportunity for banks for retail banking obviously was very nicely illustrated in this point because we know a regulatory shareholder and customer demand is skywalking at the moment for banking services and products that are tilted in this direction so if I could turn to you to illustrate a bit what sometime there is doing in this space and your observations from working on this report. Okay hello so in first place thank you for the invitation so it's very interesting to be here. So to give you some context, Santander has a ambition to achieve net zero carbon emissions by 2050 but not only with the internal operations that are already carbon neutral since 2020 but also helping our clients to reach this target. As the result of any lending of the story or investment activity that we provide for Santander. So within this framework and we are developing a lot of projects, some of that related to payments and some of that related for example to green products, including green packages, energy efficiency loans, loans to install solar panels, electric vehicles and low carbon culture for example but in the case for example of payments I think one of the first services that we have announced is the eco cards projects in order to remove all the plastic from the credit and credit cards of our customers moving from traditional plastic to column based materials that are much more sustainable for the case. So for example only with this initiative we are saving something close to 1000 tons of CO2 every year. So this is our first initiative, but I think the most important one and that's the data part of the project is related to carbon footprint measurement for our customers. So in this case we have as you can imagine huge amounts of data, transactional data, millions, thousands of millions of transactions every year. So we have been working in trying to convert these transactions into carbon footprint for every individual but not only for the individual because at least in Spain we see that customers are not really aware of the carbon footprint that they have but also for the companies. So we are creating some kind of green marketplace where we can connect the interest of these customers that are already worried about the carbon footprint but they didn't really know all the details but also is a marketplace where our companies can benefit also from these calculations because we are offering this same calculation to the companies and to the individuals. This is very important because businesses are well and not only businesses but also the administration. I think they have very poor data in order to know their real impact and maybe the banks here can help not only to our customer base but also to the society generating these insights through this analysis. There is an issue here about data privacy because all these calculations, all these carbon footprints cannot be done without the user consent. So there are some legitimate calculations that you can do for example for fraud but in this case you need the explicit consent of the customers. So regarding that we have, although we have a huge database, we have to be very aware of the data privacy issue and offer this only to the customers that have already approved to do it. And when we have this data what we are doing now is trying to convert this into insights for our companies and for the administration. For example, one month ago we were talking to one of the big electric companies in Spain because they didn't know where to put the chargers for the electric vehicles across Spain but we have this information. Maybe using this statistical analysis with no individual data points for individual customers, we can help all the companies, not only one but all the sector in order to improve the mobility for example in Spain of electric vehicles. So it's a really, really interesting issue. We have a lot of information, we are starting now because as I have told you before, there is still not this customer awareness about the carbon footprint but our idea is to move the society and to create this awareness in order to move to these targets for 2050. Absolutely. And to really answer the call or the man that you see coming from consumers on this, I should mention that we concurrently have just released information about consumer trends from a very large scale global, global scan study actually it seems a global sales study that pulls 31,000 individuals across 30-some-odd markets that really honed in on consumer trends and consumer movements on this. We also at the same time commissioned some best book research across a number of regions as well to even further hone in on retail banking and consumer trends towards banking as well and customers are voting with their feet so the opportunity is upon us if you will to be able to offer services and to provide those insights and that information to individuals again keeping in mind data privacy but also the reality that this is actually something that especially young, affluent individuals want and need in their banking services so the fact that you're moving in that direction is most definitely timely and I think it's a good opportunity then to pivot to David Lise from Ecolitic as we talk about mapping footprints and using data to be able to elevate that kind of information. So also a question at the moment with the release of our visa eco-benefits bundle in partnership with Ecolitic. David I bring you into the conversation to talk about the opportunities that you see and are working together and how this is going to become very, very prominent. Let's say the retail banking and outside of retail banking sectors as well. Pleasure to do. I guess it's all set right? Consumers want it, we have the data, we just need to do it. So maybe a little bit of background for myself, I'm the co-founder of Ecolitic. I'm actually in the payments industry for the last 18 years. Sustainability for just six years and I just try to bring them together on the data side but also on the consumer side and essentially Ecolitic is all about helping consumers understand their individual influence on the environment and surprise using payment data to do that. So we, I think it's very simple. Consumers, I think you and Ben already touched on it. Consumers want to do more but they're struggling to figure out how and the good news is pretty much everything that we do is somehow related to a payment. It's also bad news somehow, right? Everything costs money but that means we have the data from the finance industry. So we have the data to build a bit of a transparency on where do I spend most? Where do I have really big influence on the planet and how can I basically reduce it? So using those data is basically very critical in order to move the consumer and help him understanding where to change. I think this is a huge opportunity. So I'm very much delighted that we are part of the eco bundle from Visa because I think it's a fantastic approach and also a very simple approach on using what we have in order to guide consumers to act on it. And it brings it very well together. So yeah, very much looking forward to where this initiative leads us all. Fantastic. And I actually, I see already people are starting to put questions into the Q&A box on the side. I was going to say after two years of a pandemic, I'm sure everyone is very native on how to find the Q&A box. So the comments box and type their questions in, but just in case bottom right hand corner, we do have a Q&A section. So as we are following up on some questions with the panelists, please do feel free to enter your questions here. We will draw from those to speak directly to your questions and concerns on these topics. Before going in again to the larger group with some additional questions, there is one question that already popped up David that we knew was going to happen. So maybe just addressing it out of the box. How is CO2 calculated? These are the economic proposition. I love this one. So the truth is, and I think everyone we're working in this field is sustainability is a huge data play. And unfortunately we don't have all data available yet to really build full transparency. And because we know that we have a very, very transparent approach, so we're working together with a non for profit. And we have built an open standard around the data that we use, the scientific backgrounds of our methodology that we use, and we basically invite everyone to collaborate on it. So it has two advantages. First of all, we are very transparent on what we use and how we use it. That alone leaves room for improvement because we're not saying we have found the ultimate tool. We're saying we have to find it in collaboration. And there's another aspect to it. And there, because we're missing a lot of data, sometimes those gray spots are getting lost when we accumulate data, which means to find them, we need to have a very transparent look on those. And what we do, we pinpoint certain areas where there is a huge lack of data where we need to do more research. And that is something where even governments now look into it and start to fund particular research with research institutions to look at those gaps to become even better in the calculations that we have. And the other thing is that actually science loves it or the research institutions loves it because it's very easy to contribute the data and suddenly their results will immediately find a way to consume us. Which is normally not the case, but let's face it, not so many consumers are actually looking and reading science papers. And very quickly, same contributor to this question, where can that methodology that you've discussed initially be found? Yeah, very easy. EU-OSR.com is the open wiki where, or without the minus EU-OSR, the European Open Sustainability Registry is the open wiki where everything can be found and also get in touch with us. Perfect. So maybe we can parrot that URL into the chat function as well so people can click through and explore further. So moving on again back to the group at large for a moment, because we're all coming from very different perspectives on this, so I'd love to hear from you a bit more on what you see as the subsystem barriers that we will need to overcome and address to be able to see actionable impact in moving forward in the space, but also the opportunities on the other end that perhaps either result from these subsystem barriers or are parallel to these barriers that you see. So Ben, maybe I can start with you if you have any high level thoughts on this. Yeah, I think there's some common ones, almost like whichever system you look at. So one which is starting to be addressed is around pricing and externalities. So that's sort of jargon for essentially the sort of either positive or negative impacts on society in nature that aren't factored into financial calculations. That could be anything from carbon emissions to waste and so on, particularly in Europe with the Green New Deal. And as we start to have polluter pays regulations and putting a price serious price on carbon and so on, that's all starting to change. So that's kind of one. I think the second is actually for companies in particular to see this as an opportunity. Many think a lot of the focus is around how do we mitigate, how do we reduce our carbon impacts and what they're not necessarily think about is how are we going to be impacted by climate changes already in the system. And what's our opportunity to use our core capabilities as a business to lead that decarbonisation and payment is an example of that. But the same is true if you're building houses, building transportation infrastructure and everything else. So that's seeing the opportunity and then pointing innovation that direction. I think another common challenges that currently systems are very fragmented and not aligned. So if you just take, for example, you know, recycling, often, you know, a lot of plastics that are being used won't be recycled in a lot of, you know, kind of curbside recycling because the system isn't currently aligned. And I guess the, and when we start to see that both alignment, the right regulation seeing as an opportunity, the real agenda there is then to how do we really scale these opportunities and also then unlocking the right financing. And again, I think that's something that's changing, particularly with the European taxonomy on green finance that's going to start to I think unlock the right to the funding we're already seeing that growth in green bonds. So there'd be I think some common ones. So pricing and externalities, which is a regulatory area, you know, aligning the system where that's infrastructure regulation so on, and then sort of seeing the grasping the opportunity and find the right pricing mechanisms for them. And so they show up in a lot of these subsystems with its mobility or, or plastics and so on and then circular economy. Absolutely. And actually, and your last point on circular economy because that to me is a really interesting. First of all, it's one of the four areas that we focused in on for this report. But it's an incredibly interesting one vis a vis of point about the fragmentation and the lack of connectedness and connected network. It is a tremendous opportunity. In fact, at the moment one that we and these are going to be leaning into a particular because this take make waste economy is estimated to contribute to around 50% global emissions. It's not insignificant. But that actually in the sharing economy, circular economy, more regenerative economy could generate to a 335 billion by 2025, this point. So there is actually tremendous opportunity in that. But to your point, it is in remains fragmented by in nature, the connectedness. This is an area where I do believe that payments have a very strong role to play in creating that connected tissue that connected energy around it. So, you've shared some, some thoughts around that particular. Tom, I'd like to come back to you. First and foremost, actually almost particular topic of sharing economy because you had mentioned mobility as a service. And obviously the rental component, leasing component that ducks into the sharing economy conversation. I'd love to get your thoughts on that at large, but then to go back into other topics or sub barriers and opportunities that you see in the realm of mobility and transport. I think shared economy is an extremely good example to pick because it is on one end where the disruption has occurred in what used to be a little bit of a monopolistic view of transport or let's say binary. It was either the private car or public transit and suddenly in the middle 10 years ago, appeared services that were allowing to share the assets that the OEMs were producing and somehow compete with the public transit inside cities. And so that has emerged really, as I think it's an interesting case. And I was no later than last Monday listening to some consultancies telling us that this is really where the growth in terms of business is happening in the next 10, 15 years. Because of the reason I mentioned before, this is going to be where the cities are going to look in order to try to find efficiencies in taking individual mobility more towards shared mobility and not shared necessarily in terms of sharing the vehicles. But I said traveling together and more efficiently. It is also an element of interest because fundamentally, a lot of OEMs and industry players to pick the point from Ben have invested into these technologies without always seeing the return on investment as quickly as they would want to do, I would say as per usual practices and products. But the capacity is there. And if you look at what companies like Uber have been doing and growing and their valuation has been now making them too big to fail essentially. They are really taking part in the entire mobility ecosystem conversation and the OEMs, who some of them actually have shares in Uber or in others are clearly focused on leveraging this capacity in which they have invested, which is to create these shared models. And therefore, of course, to leverage the data that is within it. And so that really is leading me to the other point that Ben mentioned and your question around the sub-sector barriers. And indeed, one of the key barriers in enabling or let's say unlocking the power of data and payment data in this instance is the ability to share it. And very often because of the traditional models of thinking and the traditional mindsets, we do think that there is more value in data in owning it. But in reality, there is more value in data in sharing it. I think Fernando showed it. So it is going to be down and one of the barriers is recreating distrust. And this is obviously a common word and everybody talks about creating trust within data sharing ecosystems. But interestingly, one of the key focal points of the really imminently coming data governance of the European Union is going to be creating those mechanisms of trust, making sure that individuals have better safeguards when it comes to sharing their individual data as per Fernando's comment. But also that the private sector is encouraged to share the data and has also some level of governance as to how the value that is created by sharing this data is returned. And so in the case of mobility, this is really fundamental if we want to move forward. So trust is really one of these key sub-sector barriers. But of course, one way of also overcoming trust is to build a project together, to share a vision. And addressing the climate imperative is clearly one very important and central vision that everybody is now relying to. So I think these two would be would be quite a good way of to start in terms of understanding what barriers are existing within the mobility system related to the emergence of the unlocking of powering up data. So the creation of trust, sharing visions. And obviously with this articulate those regulatory frameworks that we are so keen on creating that can support the better collection and usage of data, but also sets the right governance. I've just given some examples with the European Commission data governance, but also drive the creation of value by focusing on clear use cases shared mobility is one of them. But I've also mentioned a couple in the in the previous comment. And most importantly, make sure that this is integrated beyond just the mobility sector because a lot of the value that is going to be created through data sharing exists in pools that are indirectly connected. They are socially there will be social social value that will even urge out of data sharing. It will be obviously environmental value and the reduction of emissions and we need to find a way for the business to access these pools without being just constrained to it. Absolutely. I love that you have highlighted data as a key component in a sharing economy. I think a lot of the traditional definition of sharing doesn't actually. Broaden to the data realm but quite frankly, I could not agree with you or the sharing of data, especially vis-à-vis our climate targets is critical and the building of trust in that. And the ability for government to get behind that and start to build that infrastructure and share projects that should that create that trust and create that that element of of collaboration that is going to be fundamental in terms of sharing that information could not possibly agree more. That's really a first step. And I imagine that it is something that David, I will pull you in in a second to address that so maybe perhaps prepare some comments to back up on that and then we'll go to your to your sub barriers and opportunities but before I move over to now there is one question from the chat that I think is very interesting impression at the moment with the pandemic and the issues around public transport that we're facing. In terms of the current climate, how do we, how do we incentivize public transportation and the more sustainable transport in such difficult times as these? What was our strategy or is there an opportunity to bounce back if you will and to public transport post pandemic. Well, first we have to always remember that mobility is contextual and that whenever it's possible indeed the right choice from an emission perspective is public transport that we have to keep in mind that many people do not always access public transit. And so we should just make sure that this is not I'm not making a blanket statement now when it comes to the pandemic and the inflection point in ridership that we have seen. First, a lot of these figures have now climbed back up and with all the measures and the health and safety habits that we have all gotten into taking public transit remains a possibility in many areas. It's just perhaps a matter of a higher attention to how do we behave. Nevertheless, the sharing economy is really seen now in many countries. It's notably the emergence of mobility as a service frameworks which really integrates public transit and other modes of transport under one single governance with data as its center is also starting to emerge in. You might have seen the announcement in Italy, Japan and of course the Nordics have been in the game for a while now and I think UK is soon already into this too. So this is really going to be a way for the public transit to leverage technology and the sharing of data to somehow complement their current offer and better serve the users and better connect with them. When it comes to the service that they provide, so I do see this really as a as one of opportunity as long as we find the right governance and we make sure that every stakeholder from the entire ecosystem from the mini startup that provides scooter services to the massive behemoth. That is the public transit of a major city all find their space in harnessing their data to create shared value. Absolutely, David, I did for one you on this sharing data as part of sharing economy.  Right. Yeah, well that's it right sharing data is the new new oil the new goal and I think to must put it very nicely I mean the real value is at least when it comes to sustainability is really when we find the common ground on sharing the data that we need in order to calculate the influence to to build this transparency and etc. And of course there there are a lot of challenges first of all how do we do it technically but also how do we keep the privacy of the individuals and the companies. How can we how can we achieve all of that by by by not, you know, compromising on the data itself by rather figuring out how we can build this trust around it so I think this is. These are the key challenges. And I think this is happy to play the ball back to you I think this is one of the very nice roles that you are as visa building this network right bridging the the banking on the fines industry to to the retail industry and then overall also to the consumer. Everything in that kind of network that usually touches your roles or at least the network around it is where we need to come together find collaboration and start figuring out how we can share data and share the value of the data. And so yeah I think this is this is where it puts you in a very unique position. We're really keen to see how this will be developed further on and see how we can we actually make the use out of it, not only on the retail side but also from from from maybe the merchant side as well to get this into it but the key problem is the same right we need to share the data and we need to do it safely and we need to figure out how we can keep the value. Absolutely, and I think what's very important to underscore here is that they, you know the time scale so the time from your list of the translation from data being shared to action and actionable impacts that are positive and letting consumers see that actually there is value media value of sharing of data that this is not obscured or that has an excessive timescale we need to build the translated quickly and hopefully this is something where visa can in fact be a massive enabler to be able to to accelerate that pace of impact through the sharing of data. Absolutely. That's that's definitely where we hope to play anyway. Absolutely, I think the good news is that there is already so much data that provide tremendous value for, for, let's say the consumer at this example. So there is a very, very good starting base to already help consumers and while we do this, we can start figuring out how do we get access to the rest and how do we start to the rest but I think starting right now, or the starting point is already so good that we will see tremendous change happening soon and while we start the way on this path. I'm pretty sure we will solve the other challenges as well and it gives us sometimes while we have already some good results and I think this is, there's always very motivating if you get started somewhere and you'll immediately see some results. Absolutely and then then ultimately helps banks, for example, ever to be able to better design services and products data services and products because there is that authenticity and that rapid iteration, let's say, of the data availability and then data usage so I'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic in particular from the voice of sometimes there but also other system barriers that you're seeing that will need to overcome opportunities from your side. Yes, the data sharing point is really interesting because I think the value here is that if you join all the data, there is a lot of data symmetry. So for example, we have a lot of transactional level data, but we don't have the basket level data that may be really useful in order to understand the behavior of a customer. The administration have a rich data at macro level that maybe we connect this micro data with this micro transaction data, we may find very interesting conclusions. The energy sector, they already have a very interesting view. But the thing is that at least up to now, all these open data regulations have only applied to banking, like PSD2. So, as a consumer, you can move your data between banks and then you can have this 360 view of your transactional data within all the banks. But maybe it could be very interesting now to have this like a sectoral initiative regulation in order to open the data not only from the banks but from the other sectors. And we give this value to the company, we give this value to the customers because they, for example, one of the more interesting cases that we are working now is related to the European funds for the energy transition. So if we are able to profile the customer and have a complete understanding of the current situation and the things that this customer has to do and the European funds that may apply for this situation is a perfect offer for all the customers. So I think this data sharing initiative would be really helpful in order to have a better value for our customers. Absolutely. And I see something as well from the chat. Actually, I have interestingly enough to Q&A bubble, so I'm just sort of vacillating between the two. And this is something where you also may have some thoughts on this too, but there's a real interest in recycled materials, card materials. So as you are issuing cards to your consumers, huge emphasis on what those materials are. And I see a question now in the chat from Arijit. Apologies if I mispronounced your name. What is sometimes they're doing on that front or the, let's see the interest that you're hearing from consumers on the actual materials of the cards that you're going to be distributing to your clients. The question actually in particular is visa doing anything in this regard. Yes, we are as part of our eco bundle. We have a recyclable and reusable materials programs as well, but I'll work to you. Well, I think the first initiative is to remove all the materials so you can now pick with your mobile phone so you don't need any plastic at all. I used to live home with a lot of plastics in my wallet, but now I am going always with my mobile phone and I can do all the payments without any plastic and the experience for the customer for example is when you order for a credit card. The first minute that you ask for your credit card, you already have this available in your white phone. You don't have to wait for a week or for two or three days to receive the credit card in your home. So I think the first initiative is to remove all the materials, not only the plastic but also cold materials or all the recycled alternatives that you may have. Santander in Spain has the highest share of the market in terms of mobile payment close to 70%. So, so most in fact we have grown a lot in customers because of this possibility that other banks didn't offer. But having said that, just what we are doing now is to remove all the non sustainable materials and use only recycled PVC or conveys materials for the credit cards. One of the things that used to happen in the past, it was the expiration date of the credit card was maybe two, three, four years, but the plastic lasted 10, 20 years. So this doesn't make any sense. So you have to also to use materials that are related to the expiration of the credit card. But anyway, I think the best alternative, no material and payment with the mobile phone. I think that's the best customer experience. And I think that migration is starting to happen. I think globally as well. There are a number of people who still want something in their pocket and their wallet, their physical wallet. And for that, there are a lot of emerging solutions and from us as well around using ocean plastics. Those materials that are by nature, more sustainable, but ultimately in the transition to say, you know, how long will it take to actually have most people or all people comfortable with not having something physical in their pocket and being along on that journey as well. So we have about seven minutes left. So what I'm going to do is to ask each and every one of you, again, just do a bit of around the table or do a good job, as we would say, around your last thoughts on practical guidance for all types of players within this savings ecosystem. But you have initial ideas, thoughts, implications, and very importantly, next steps in moving this conversation forward because we mentioned this is really very first of its kind information that is out there on the roll of payments. It is incredibly, it behooves us, let's say, to move very quickly to action on this point. So really practical guides, guidelines and next steps. Ben, I'm going to start with you on this one as a key partner in this, this report. I think the main one is probably an invitation. So for those involved in decarbonizing key systems to, you know, reach out and involve both payments companies and crucially as into major is the retail banks, you know, issuing banks. So I think to bring them in, say, look, how can you be actors in helping us, because often they will figure out if we want almost these black box of these net zero solutions and whatever the system might be, but they won't understand the role of payments. And there's clearly a transactional role that payments can play. We've talked a bit about data flows around say carbon, but also I think as we start to extend out from that as well want to know more things like how long has that material been in the system? How much, you know, have we saved? How much carbon have we saved? So also things start to look at natural impacts within being held in the system, which are all potentially new data flows for payments companies as well. So to, so I think there's that bringing them in and for payments companies to also proactively be looking at that kind of sweet spot between what parts of the economy do we need to decarbonize where the big carbon impacts and the potential role of payments. And we've identified a number of those in the report, but I think it's for all acting the payments networks and really proactively see that as the huge opportunity because that's where the big, you know, the big decarbonization will come from the new payments flows. I mean, it's the kind of really clear win-win. And I think and often what we miss, I think is, is forums to have that conversation for those acts of trying to decarbonize systems to really diagnose what's needed, co-create those new solutions, align the system around it. And that's why organizations like WBCSD, WEF and others agree, you know, great at bringing those actors together. So I think it's about bringing creating those those groups and actively playing a role in it. You're very talented, Ben. I'll take it forward there. It's about guidance and related to the diagnosis point that Ben just mentioned. Fundamentally, we have now worked on the topic of digitalization and data that were at the World Business Council for more than three years and I've realized that essentially we can't wait. You know, if we are to try to, for the public sector to create the perfect and super safe and watertight systems and regulations will not be able to really leverage the data that is already available in time for decarbonizing transport, which we know is one of those key sectors. And what we have realized is that there are still some gaps that are preventing people more generally and namely companies and the public sector to share data to create shared value. And one data, often the value of sharing data, sorry, isn't often very easy to quantify and nobody would want to invest into anything without having a clear visibility on on the return on investment. Second, operationalizing, you know, how do you operate data sharing, whether it's from a physical infrastructure, but also from which data do you collect to create what. And this is really use case dependent, city dependent, almost person by person dependent. And that is also a space where there is a this is also a gap. This is also something where the capacity does not always exist. And finally, of course, through dialogue, helping the authorities to regulate those data governance is and to support the creation of these safeguards in in privacy in security in generating the value. These are the gaps that we need to fill. And very simply, we believe that the world business considered that a private sector has the lead in anything digital and needs to very quickly come together, declare their ambition. When it comes to decarbonizing the society, but in our case, it's transport, identify those use cases and work and work to prove the value. Help operationalizing and support the policymaking for these governance is to exist. And so we call upon every business that has data to simply join the coalition that we are going to launch this year. And these are, we hope that you're going to join us too, and to basically start working on this. And David also you're welcome to come. We need to harness the strength and the knowledge that exists to move. We need to move forward and I just finished on this very point. If we don't start to act, we will never know where we're going to land. And fundamentally, we know that when we start to share data, we will create new problems and we need to find those flexible approaches where we create these governance that are evolving. And I think the only way to get there is to start doing it. Yeah, absolutely overall the private sector in driving these this forward, your final thoughts on this. Yes, I think we have a huge responsibility. We have a huge power is the data, but with this power we have this responsibility in order to help the society, the companies, the individuals in order to be more efficient and more sustainable in the future. So, our main mission now is create this awareness into our customer base into the society and try to help them not only with this awareness but also linking any strategic initiative from the government from the European Union from the administration and to to transform the society and to create a society from from a huge opportunity. Absolutely. And everything is based on this is a lot of work for us. Correct. And David, turning to you for the 30 seconds final word. I think I would just mention again collaboration right so digitalization is the tool. Yes, we need data. Yes, we need to share it but it all starts with us. We need to sit together and collaborate that means sitting down with the competition sitting down with the people you would normally not talk to and and working together on one common goal, keeping this planet healthy and livable for many, many other generations and I think this is, this is where it starts in our mindsets in our heads and that's the first starting point and then everything else we will figure out on the way, but we will do it together. Fantastic. What a great note to end on and in the spirit of Swiss time ending on time I just wanted to say thank you so much to our panelists who have really been very insightful informative today I've learned a lot myself, and also to our viewers for a very active listening and participation so thank you for joining again I wish you all a lovely day and please take care of yourselves this holiday season. Thank you for your time.