Thanks, everybody, for joining. We are here today. I'm Michael Waite from Red Hat with another edition of the OpenShift Commons Briefings Operator Hours. And today, we are fortunate enough to have with us Ravish Dewan from Joget. Ravish is the president and CEO of the company. How are you today, Ravish? Hi, Mike. How are you doing? Thanks for coming. I know that we turned this one around in just a couple of weeks, so we're really, really happy to have you here today talking to us. What are you going to be talking to us about? I was just going to talk about Joget as a company, what we are doing and how we are partnering with Red Hat OpenShift. It's a great platform and you have to share some stories. That sounds good. So Joget, how did the company found? Wasn't it in 2009, I think, right? It was just a source-forge project and then you guys productized it. Tell me about that. Yeah, yeah. So we started back in 2009. At the time, there was a lot of buzz around workflow and VPM and automation. And we started as an open source workflow platform. And then as the time passed by, we were developing the open source for workflow. And somewhere around 2014, we pivoted on being the low code platform. We were trying to do a lot of things visually without writing code, if we can. And there came this whole concept of low code platforms in citizen developers and we pivoted on that. So today we are a low code platform. A lot of things can be done visually, building a process, building an application fast. And we are now working as a low code platform. Okay. And you guys are headquartered in Maryland, is that right? That is correct. Columbia, Maryland. But you must have other options. I think I saw some in Malaysia and China. Yeah. What do you guys globally distributed? Yes, we have a global presence now. We have an office in Maryland, Columbia, Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur. We have an office in China. We have an office in Indonesia as well. I mean, we hear it all the time, low code, no code. I've been talking with you at various different events and trade shows for years. You seem to be the main peer leader for this. So let's talk about what it is. What does it do? How do people use it? Let's go. So my low code platform and I would say the acceleration of digital transformation is what is going on right now. And we observe that there are not enough either developers available to do the application development and go through that full process or business does not have enough time to go through sharing all that they want to do with the developers and are in the need of getting these things done much faster than what we have traditionally been doing. And also from an industry trend standpoint, if you look at Gartner's prediction, you know, Gartner recently released their, you know, future predictions next five years. And they are saying by 2024, every large organization will have three to four low code platforms within their company use. Now that's a big statement. The reason is because everyone wants to do things faster. And as you do the knowledge transfer from business to IT and all and to deliver the application, it takes time. And what low code platforms are really enabling is enabling the citizen developer or the business user to be able to build the applications for themselves and, you know, configure them and move fast. And this market is maturing every day and speeding up the application development process. But it's faster always better.  I mean, just cranking things up faster. Doesn't that cause problems and introduce risk in other places? That's a very good question, Mike. And I'll share this with you. And we do, you know, caution our customers as well that if you try to automate a process, you get an automated process, right? You can go faster. But if you automate a mess, you get an automated mess that becomes difficult to handle as well. So it's not necessary. The past is always good. It has to be done with caution and with governance in place. And the customers, what we have seen is the customers who have implemented that governance in place ahead of time are able to do things much faster with better quality and really good business outcomes. We have customers and we have a really good manufacturing customer in Canada that has implemented Joget with literally no developers, but they've followed the process internally and they're able to do really, you know, interesting apps today, you know, within the organization and much faster. And I should, I know you know this, but I'll remind this for all the people who are watching as well, that we're streaming this live. We're on YouTube. We're on Facebook Live and Twitch Live. If anyone has any questions for Ravish, please post them in the chat and we'll make sure that we work them in as we go forward here. So Joget, it's kind of an interesting name. Red Hat, everyone's like, well, it's a red hat. I don't really know what a Joget is. So how did you guys come up with the name Joget? What does it mean? Tell me about that. So Joget is a Malaysian term and this whole journey started back in Malaysia when we started the open source project. And Joget means in Malaysian terms deaths, the traditional folk dance. And the team was debating what should we name this. And the whole intent was, as we are talking about process automation and creating this whole complex business processes or an automating business processes, it requires a lot of coordination across the enterprise. And the whole idea was to depict that coordination, that multiple teams working together, just like what happens in the dance. You need a lot of coordination with the team members to deliver an experience. And that's exactly what we meant when we named Joget. Coordination across various teams, multiple business units or IT departments to build and deliver complex business application. It's kind of a dance within the organization as well. And that's what the Joget name represents. Okay. And I think you've changed the logo a couple of times, right? Yeah. So I think that's your right. We changed the logo. I think back in 2019, we released a new logo to really align ourselves better from market standpoint. But if you look at the core still remains the same. We wanted to make it a little more bold with what we are doing now. We have not been a company that captures your email and floods you with the marketing stuff, but rather bold in the sense that we are able to deliver really large applications, applications of the scale of ERP now using the local platform. And that's what we wanted to represent in our new logo, if you will. Okay. So what about, what about Ravish Dewan, president and CEO? Where have you been? I'm guessing this probably isn't your first gig. Where'd you come from?  Yeah. So, Michael, we are just going back. I come from India and I started my career as a startup itself back in India. It was those dot com days. And back in, I would say late 90s or mid 90s, I launched a company in CAD-CAM, and then got into this whole dot com stuff and released a city portal back in 1999. And, you know, I got a chance to become a young entrepreneur at that time. And eventually I came to, you know, I left that venture and came to U.S. on a, I work for an Infosys consulting company, large consulting company of India, one of the top ones, and had a chance to get experience here in the United States, working with customers, really understanding what means important to them. And while I was doing this, I was also exploring the open source space. That's where I, you know, found Joget very interesting and had a chance to, you know, work on an advisory basis. I think at my experience, I've been on the other side of the table all the time, consuming the products, spent a lot of time in the industry, you know, working with large companies like not a single shell or nationwide insurance, and then Blue Cross Blue Shield. So I spent a lot of my stint in licensing these products and implementing these products as a customer. And there came a time when I realized that there is a lot of expense that is happening on the customer side that can be optimized. And then there should be a better way to do these things. And, you know, I joined Joget to take you to the next level. I felt that it is in the right marketplace right now and it is the right time to create that, you know, wave in local platform and change how we do application development. And not just change how we do application development, but even from infrastructure standpoint, you know, looking at some of these newer cooler technologies like, you know, AI, machine learning, and then, you know, containers, all this is changing how we were doing application development earlier. And I felt, you know, bringing this all together would be a really good game changer. And it is now in the industry, if you will, if you look at it, you know, going from no infrastructure to a completely, you know, full-fledged application has been super accelerated now. And that's what drives my passion in Joget. Okay. So what about, what about Joget and Red Hat? I've been around a long time. I've known you for years. It seems like you folks are everywhere with us. We're at events together. You folks have a Red Hat certified operator that's in our operator catalog. You have a presence in the Red Hat marketplace. So there's a commercial opportunity there for customers to actually consume Joget from the Red Hat marketplace. How has the Red Hat partnership been working with you? Yeah. That's a good question, Mike. Let me just take a step back and talk about what is happening in the industry that we observe as Joget. And then we'll come back to the question. If you look at the industry, there is a lot going on from cloud migration, and all of a sudden this whole COVID thing has accelerated the digital transformation for our customers. And what is happening is in order to get to the cloud, in order to get to the cloud native applications, customers are looking at how they can move their existing stuff, how they can rewrite their existing stuff and all, and how can they get rid of their legacy application and be more cloud native. So there is this trend going on. The other trend that is going on is everyone is talking about AI. Pick any software they are talking about AI. We are not an AI company. I do want to highlight that. But we do see an opportunity wherein there are plenty of AI engines. I've been talking to a company called Conversion wherein we are exploding the partnership to create the document ingestion. There is another company for credit scoring, another company on the clinical healthcare. So there are various AI engines that are available, and customers, when they consume that engine, they need to create the applications around it. So there is this one, another trend going on. Then there is obviously containers that is completely changing how you develop and deploy applications. If we look at all three ends, we want to do the same for our customers. And I felt that Red Hat Marketplace was an extremely great strategy from hybrid cloud, if you will. I want to do it on-prem today and then I want to take it on the cloud tomorrow or vice versa. This whole Red Hat Marketplace model gives the customer ability to do what they want or what they are willing to do. And also enable them for future. You want to be on on-prem and on-cloud today and then move everything to the cloud tomorrow. You can do that. And I think riding on that wave with Red Hat Marketplace and with Red Hat as a partner would be a great position to be in. We are enabling any of our Red Hat customers or Jogit customers to be able to go to the marketplace. They can directly license Jogit from Red Hat Marketplace itself. And when you do that, that's where the Jogit operator comes into picture. You can quickly create those environments and be in the application development, releasing that business application very quickly. And building the applications very quickly. So I see that as a tremendous power to go from no infrastructure to a business application really fast. Were you folks an early adopter of containers? When containers first really became, well, I guess mainstream version two. Were you folks early adopters of that and said, yes, this is the future of application development. We've got to containerize or did you have to wait for customers to start saying, hey, where's your containers? No, actually we have been the early adopters and I will explain this is where we got an advantage also to move fast. Mike, because we already had the containerized Jogit and as we started the partnership with Red Hat, the first thing was to get the container certified. Guess what, we already have a container. So it just took us two weeks to get through all that process. Just because we were already thinking about what industry trends are going to be and how we can move fast in that space. And when you talk about Jogit and OpenShift, the next thing came was the operator. Can I make it super easy for our customers to click, click, click and they have the environment up and running? Absolutely, that's where the operator was extremely helpful to do that for us. People can use Jogit low code, no code without the operator, right? It just makes it easier for managing a distributed cluster.  Let's say today you have a Jogit environment and this is something that we are recommending to our customers also. You know, look at the container environment, look at OpenShift also. So you get a huge tremendous advantage when you do that. I'll just share an interesting story. We have a customer, a large customer, rather large customer who was building, had a need to build a very critical application on Jogit or very fast. They embarked on Jogit, they finished the application within four weeks. So very quickly got the business understood their requirements, enabled them, they developed the application in four weeks. Then they were going to deploy in that application in production, not realizing how fast they were moving on application. Their infrastructure took more than one and a half month to get established to really deploy Jogit. So I was sharing our observation with that customer that, you know, you took way less time to develop the business application and you took way more time to develop your infrastructure on which you are going to deploy Jogit.  And presumably other platforms as well? Absolutely. Okay. And you're all open source, your Jogit's 100% open source or is there parts that are parts that aren't? Good question. Mike, we have, we are an open source, we have a community addition. Obviously the enterprise addition is what has additional features from security from, you know, enhanced capability to build applications, processes. We have an API builder baked into our enterprise version. So there are a number of capabilities in the enterprise version that are not available in community addition. But yes, community addition is absolutely free open source. You know, we have more than 11,000 community members who are, you know, participating in what we're doing from open source. Yeah, I was going to say, I was going to say, I thought you had something around like almost 12,000 community members. So that's a very, very active community around Jogit. Yes. Yes. So, and we are looking at expanding that as we see the demand for local applications increasing. And in fact, you know, here is another interesting fact that I want to share. A lot of product companies are now looking at, you know, local platforms like Jogit to rebuild their own applications in local platform because there is a pent up demand on customizing their own software for each customer. And that becomes a challenge every time when you're dealing with the product. And being on open, you know, being on a local platform, it makes it very easy for them to make these changes customization and yet not break their back from resources and application development standpoint. And we are seeing a lot of interesting requests that is coming to us as a partner request. We want to sunset our product and rather be on a local platform, so we can move fast with our customers. And that's a very interesting, you know, things that are happening in product space also. So tell me about some of the customer cases that you see out there. Everyone has some spotlight stories to talk about. Can you share with us some of the coolest customer stories that you have? Yeah, sure. So let me talk about not rather a customer, but we actually donated the software just because we felt that, you know, would have been good for the not for profit. We, there is a not for profit called doctors without borders. And they reached out to us want to use your platform and we, the interesting thing was they had no engineer in there, and they wanted to build a lab management software for what they were doing. And they reached out to us, we thought, you know what, it's for a good cause, let's, let's go ahead and do that. And we, you know, extended the last yogurt license at no cost. And to our surprise, they actually developed the whole application without even our help. And I was kind of amazed to see how this is where we feel that when we are building some of these things with the goal in mindset that citizen developers should be able to build the applications and be able to roll that out in production. This is a perfect example of one of a, you know, your customers or users of Joe get had no training, no exposure to, you know, what they just looked at the, you know, knowledge base started building the lab application management. And they recently came back and extended to for others, you know, sites as well. Very interesting to see how they used Joe get and very quickly created that, you know, application for themselves. So this was very interesting. I'm sorry, go ahead. Is there any set out there that Joe get is targeted more than others like, you know, some companies are very vertically aligned. You know, around financial services or telco. I'm guessing, given that you target developers looking to build code faster and better that it's applicable to every developer building in any application anywhere in the world regardless of what type of business they're in. If you're like, we are not focused on a particular vertical, we have customers across all verticals manufacturing, healthcare, banking, education, you know, aerospace, government. So all sorts of customers are there. In fact, another interesting story I want to share is one of our customers is Orange County, California. And they, again, a similar story. They bought Joe get they started working on it. And within three months. They were overloaded with what they were doing from their regular business processes. And within three or four months of application development, you know, on Joe get and releasing their internal processes on automating their processes on Joe get. Like four people team, eight people team to a four people team, very, very short time frame, they were able to do this fast. You know, in a very, very short timeframe, again, without any particular assistance or any particular formal, you know, training, they were they were able to do it on their own. It's a great example to that may gives us satisfaction that we are building software and trying to implement those citizen developer principles, so they can do it fast themselves as well. Okay, and if someone wasn't going to use Joe get. What are the other is it roll your own or are you the only company out there that does what you do or if there are more low code no code platforms how do you differentiate yourself from them. Yeah, so excellent question there are plenty in the market and there are plenty popping up as well. I will not deny that. I would say that we as a principle that we have implemented in Joe get is harnessing or I would say implementing the open source thought process. We did not want Joe get to be restrictive. And when we say open source what it means is there is a very strong plugin architecture that we have built. We have a new piece that you want to roll out we can easily create or even our customers. And this is something that our customers have done a lot as well, create their own plugins in Joe get. So, I'll give you an example let's say you have a very specific way of creating a screen and a widget that you want, and you want to use that as an enterprise across various groups. So instead of creating a reusable code, we have, we extend the Joe get platform, they can extend the Joe get platform themselves and create plugins around it, and that enables them to, you know, take that Joe get capability to the next level within the organization. And that brings in a, you know, interesting way to, to, to extend Joe get, we see that happening all the time, a number of our customers, you know, request the, this feature would be great that feature would be great but when they learn that, oh, you know what, we have the power to extend it and create that feature for ourselves.  And that's what we are striving for right now. We have released, in fact, with Joe get DX, we have released some major capability like, you know, API building you can, you know, as you're creating business applications, you want to integrate that within your organization as well. No business application is going to sit in a silo and not interact with multiple existing applications in the enterprise. So we have created a, we have released a API, you know, builder within Joe get you can create API around the applications that you've built, or processes that you've built in Joe get. And that's that was in, that was in March of this year wasn't it just before the everything changed. That is good. I think I was reading, reading an article was back on early March, but I got confused there because you know you were talking about, you know, your artificial intelligence and application performance management and I was like well geez I don't think they're an AI vendor I think they probably just enable better AI development is that right. That is correct. And just to give a little insight to that. Let's say example you have developer tensor flow, you know model in your AI. Let's say for image map matching. I'm just giving an example. Right. And in fact there's a blog on open shift. How ready to open shift and Joe get and tensor flow you can utilize to assume you are an AI company and you've created your model in tensor flow. We have a currently we have a plugin in Joe get for tensor flow. We are looking at other engines as well, but we have a plugin in tensor flow you upload your model you configure your inputs and outputs, and you can get an application around it very quickly. That's the goal that we are targeting. We don't want to be a vendor. We are not a vendor. But what we are is give you the base capability and infrastructure to build your app application on the model that you're built in an AI space. Now, there is always a pay integration that you can do with any engine today, but we are trying to see how we can make that into a, you know, out of box capability. And, and that's where the AI things come into picture. You mentioned about the application monitoring. So just putting my, you know, experience hat on. I've built a lot of large systems in various large organizations. And one of the things that really hits you hard always is performance. You user wants everything fast. When you are building these screens are building the application user experience is important and you response time is very, very important. And I face various challenges using a number of large softwares to build these applications. And moment you hit this performance and production becomes a huge blocker, if you will. And keeping that in mind, we built the application performance monitoring piece in within Joget as a capability out of the box. The idea was anyone who wants to build an application Joget, they can get a performance dashboard out of the box without making any specific instrumentation. We create this performance dashboard for you to look at what are your transaction response times if you want to establish alerts, something going slow. So this capability enables our customers to monitor their apps in production. In fact, we have another interesting capability related to performance monitoring, which is the performance analyzer. So when you're building an app, when a non coder or a non developer is building an app or so called citizen developer is building an application, they won't realize drag and drop and put an image here, realizing that image is actually slowing down their application. Right. So, so these performance analyzers, you establish a threshold and you can see how your screen performance is going to be ahead of time. So this gives a really easy way for non coders also to look at what they're building and is it going to be efficient in in production, if you will. So is that not to wrap but there's there's lots of vendors out there that deliver APM application performance management monitoring. I think we all know who they are. Does this mean then that if a customer uses the Joget low code no code platform as a red hat certified operator for OpenShift that they don't need. Other APM vendors? I would not say that might because if their application, those APM vendors go horizontal, you know, the APM functionality that we have is within Joget and Joget applications. And yes, it covers the APIs that you're calling externally or the database that you're calling externally. So in an organization, there might be multiple applications, some in Joget, some, you know, not in Joget or a legacy application, and you want to look at horizontally across applications. You definitely need those APM tools. So there is absolutely, you know, that their need exists, but this is more specific to how a non coder. You cannot expect a non coder citizen developer to go into some of these APM tools and make sense of it's very, very, these are complicated tools, and these are not simple tools to use. But a non coder can take a look at his screen and see, you know, there is this portion of the screen is highlighted, it's going to take, you know, three seconds to render. So that's something that they can easily understand. And our intent with APM is to make them make it easy for them to look at, and they can always configure API and see, oh, this API is slowing me down, that's it. But the detailed, you know, horizontal monitoring, if you will, that's definitely those APM tools can help. Okay, well that covers the APM and the AI questions they had. There was one other piece that came out in the announcement, which was around the progressive web apps in Joget DX. What's that all about? Yes. And why should people care about progressive web apps? Excellent question. Like, if you, again, looking at the industry trends, we are, you know, we don't have any crystal ball, you know, with us, what we are doing is what we are observing from our customers are listening to our customers. Progressive web apps are the new ways of, you know, looking at the web applications, if you will. Progressive web apps is like giving these some of the offline capabilities, your ability for notification. So I don't mean to rely on on native apps. There is a whole debate going on, you know, whether these will native apps live or or things will be more of progressive web apps on your devices on your on your browser so on and so forth. And we felt that that is another essential element from Joget standpoint. So within our product Joget DX, which is on Reddit marketplace as well, any application you create using Joget drag and drop, you are creating a progressive web app for yourself. We have a push notification mechanism that you can enable a little bit of offline functionality that you get out of the box when you are using, you know, Joget. So, so these are some common needs from our customers and a direction that industry is driving towards. So we built that as a capability in our, you know, product. And now, if you are creating a Joget application, it is enabled for mobile, it is enabled for web and it has those PWA capabilities built in as well. So you said, based on the direction that the industry is driving towards, how much do you think things are going to change? I mean, there's been a lot of change in the way apps are built. Certainly, you know, in the 19 years that I've been here at Red Hat, or maybe it's 20 now, but something like that, you know, it was it was Linux and applications built with C. Then there was, you know, middleware layers. And then there was virtualization with VMware and other vendors. And then there was, you know, the disruptive change of OpenStack and OpenStack was the shiny object. And they were, no, no, no, now it's containers, containers of the shiny object and you don't need VMs anymore. Then there's, then there's, you know, Kubernetes and orchestration of container platforms and operators. I'm just going to just keep on going like this and how you folks position to be able to, you know, change with the times. Yeah, so I think one of the things that we, that's an excellent question, Mike, and we get that a lot. You know, I build application on Joget and the technology changes and what, right. You think about we were, we were doing without containers earlier, and now we have thought through for our customers and enable the container for them. Essentially what we are trying to do as a goal from Joget's standpoint is enabling our customer for future proof applications. We don't know today, everyone is talking about the cloud tomorrow, there is a change in direction, you know, deploy somewhere else. So what we are trying to do is, how can I enable the customer to future proof their application if they did not have a PWA capability and they want a PWA capability. They were using Joget yesterday, and they are using today and the update DX, they get those facility, you know, capabilities, you know, from Joget's standpoint. And we want to be ahead, you know, of our customer needs, if you will, to give them or enable them for future application as well. That's what we are now as your to your question about, do you think it will keep changing? Absolutely, it will keep changing, you know, what the need for customer will remain exactly the same. I want to do this fast. I want to do it quickly, and I want to deploy quickly and get the business value out of it. That basic demand will remain every single time. Our means to how we deliver that will keep changing. And it is going to be our, you know, duty to ensure that we are trying to be ahead in that, you know, adoption for our platform so we can enable our customers to do the same. And, and, you know, do that heavy lifting for them. Let's just pretend for a second that that public cloud, multi cloud doesn't become the end all platform or the way that apps are built and apps are consumed. What if everything reverted back to the data center in a couple of years because of, you know, spaced aliens who knows it. Does that take away any of the advantages that Joe get can and the benefits that Joe get can provide to, you know, people building apps if it's just back in the data center. How much of how much of applications moving to the to the cloud is enabling the need for your solutions. Actually, Mike, we are already ready for that. Whether you want to do it on cloud today and move it to one on Prem tomorrow, or you start with on Prem and move it to cloud. We are already ready for that. That's the reason you will find, you know, all sorts of images across various cloud platforms from Joe get already out there. And, you know, our customers are doing they some of the customers start with the trial on our cloud and then they say, you know what we are going to be building a sensitive application and we want them that on Prem, they do that even today. So, I don't think we have to wait for that that those things are happening, depending upon the customer need, whether you want to be on the cloud on Prem in containers on all sorts of various platforms, we want to be able to cater to you as simple as that. And we want to do it now, not in future you the future it will become a demand, rather than a want to do this. And we want to be ahead of that right now. So if you have a joked application today on Prem, you can easily go to the cloud or vice versa. There is no, the fluidity is in both the ways. And this is where I see value for reddit hybrid cloud that that marketplace is enabling. And, you know, just just quickly, one more thing I wanted to mention on the on the reddit marketplace. This is where I it fascinates me and and excites me to partner with reddit also is managing software as assets within any organization. It's a nightmare. It is absolutely nightmare. If you go to any large organization, have you do you know what licenses you have bought, do you know what you have bought, and is there a, you know, even though there are cmdbs and all sorts of solution, very, very difficult to keep track of. I believe, you know, the customers who are aligned with reddit marketplace and start their licensing there, it will be a very structured way of managing their software inventory also. And the more they utilize the, or the more they consolidate the better it's going to be for them. It is not an easy job, and there is a lot of wastage that happens today. The number of organizations don't even know they have these software assets and licenses that they're paying off for.  I'm just going back to the build it wants to play anywhere that that's that's our story as well with open shift being the layer of abstraction so if you build your app for open shift you get to deploy, you know, this cloud that cloud on premise in a hybrid model without having to having to, you know, rebuild it every time. What do you think is going to win who's going to win so every all these cloud vendors have a Kubernetes strategy who do you think's got it right. Got it right is yet to be answered, if you will. And yes, all the cloud providers have the, the, the, you know, Kubernetes strategy and all. I think from if you look at from my vantage point, and I have been in customers who's for a very long time. My, I think the flexibility will be one that will win the game. If I, if I, if my strategy is going to be driving me towards only one cloud, I see that as a problem. And that's vendor walking in the cloud. So I think the strategy that enables the customer fluidity in what they want to do, and how much they want to be fluid in on on which cloud. I think that's something that is going to be valuable. Other than that, you know, don't have any crystal ball with me. But if I am on on a customer and or a consuming and these will be my decision parameters. What kind of flexibility can I get? How soon can I move these things? If if I need to, you know, from from one cloud to another cloud and also on Prem. And I think these are the, you know, guiding principles for us as a joked also, I want to be able to give the same flexibility to our customers as well. Hence, you know, very strong alignment with open ship that I'm looking at.  And they're and they're building apps using Joe get and they're running on this platform and then at some point they decide we hey we're getting Oracle all over again I you know I can't have this I'm going to I'm going to move to you know that platform and you know a hybrid model with you know part data center there's absolutely no rebuilding of anything as long as your apps as long as the apps were built using your functionality. It's just they can just pick it up and move it and there's no no, you know, I don't even know if recompiling is still a word anymore but. I think all the vendors should think about that quite frankly. Mike and that's something that you know drives me as well from application perspective, if I if we create something that sticks on only one and limits the customers tomorrow is going to be a challenge. And it's a risk also I mean if you if you look at some of the large applications that I build and I get locked on. It's a risk as well, you know from operations perspective, so on and so forth so I think that flexibility is is critical. And, and all this this whole fight is towards cloud is obviously creating the flexibility and all but it all boils down to the bottom line as well. I have, you know, just think about a scenario where I have the application that is fluid. I want to go on cloud a cloud be cloud see the bottom line is going to be the cost also tomorrow. If I am getting that same flexibility across all these clouds then my success is going to be ability to move from one cloud to another cloud that is giving me an efficient or cost efficiency as well. And, you know, that's where it boils down. Today, if I start with one cloud and I build all the strategy around the cloud, and tomorrow I see you know what, they came up with the newer ways of making use cheaper and you know this cloud is better. And I'm stuck there, you know, I'm logged in, just like I'm logging today on one friend. So that's something that I feel is a fundamental element to look at to ensure customers keep that inside. Again, they can start with one cloud but they should think about multi cloud strategy anyways. And that's where the hybrid cloud, you know, comes into picture. Well, I kind of feel like I have been just bombarding you here with my with my question is trying to trying to get as much information out of you how are you folks dealing now with the way things are. So, as I said, I've been with you in San Diego, we've I'm sure we bumped into each other at the coupon conventions in Copenhagen and you know Amsterdam of course as we know, was it didn't actually happen in person. But you know what are you folks planning for going forward and how are you going to be doing driving market visibility for you know, yogurt going forward given that everything is virtual. Yeah, actually, in fact, just a plug in here.  But just taking a step back with what has happened with this whole pandemic and COVID and, you know, we observe that customers really require empathy as well. They are in a very, you know, tough position as well. And a lot of our customers reached out to us regarding, they have this whole bring their workforce back and so on and so forth and again just sharing other customer as I mentioned, you know, back in Canada. They wanted to get there was manufacturing customer they wanted to get their employees back, and they be listening to them and help them roll out a very quick application on Joget. And realize that not just them all the customers would want to do that. So we have started releasing a few applications like, you know, temperature scanning application travel advisory, absolutely free go to Joget marketplace download that, you know, and, you know, just go live with those applications. And best part is, you know, you can download and change them based on your needs.  We have tried to, you know, create those applications and roll that out absolutely free of cost on our marketplace. So that's something that we are doing from future standpoint I think it is going to be, you know, world has changed as simple as that the new normal is is is absolutely different than what we were in, you know, in earlier, and there's a very big study that was released by Forester. I think it was back in June, May or June, that talks about even though a lot of organizations thought they had their processes automated. They didn't realize there are a number of steps that was still manual in nature, and that amounts to 70% of the organization will still have to further automate what they have done. So that's an interesting number to look at. And when you're talking about the paper processes and all, it becomes absolutely essential now to to automate that and we are seeing the demand right now on our end as well. Customers are just coming back and saying that we were having this paper process I'm going to go online make it completely automated, you know, customers can directly interact with our processes to see the demand. And we are hoping that we will be able to support the demand, cater to that demand. That's a good thing. So, you've been honest on our show we've been talking about who your company is what your low code no code solution works how you have a red hat certified operator or open shift it's available in the marketplace. We haven't done a demo or any any technical, you know, in the weeds let me show you how to edit this config file and while look at the impact on the, you know, the outcome. If someone wants to have that type of workshop, is it do you folks make those available are there are there deep dive technical presentations that you folks put on.  Yes, yes, absolutely. So, we have plenty of resources on on YouTube on our website on, you know, on actually open ship blocks as well. We have plenty of tutorials available. Plenty of we do webinars, we do deeper webinars where in the, how to build the applications. There is a there is a really nice video to look at OpenShift and Joe get you can start with the OpenShift cluster and you want to build an application and boom 15 minutes. We did a webinar back in September, Mike regarding the demo how you can be 15 minutes, how you can go from no infrastructure to a full fledged application that has a business process behind it, so on and so forth. So yeah, we do plenty of webinars, there's plenty of resources available on OpenShift and Joe get on the reddit marketplace as well there are a bunch of tutorials that you've rolled out. So plenty of resources. I wonder if we, I wonder if someone on the Red Hat team on the call here could post the link to that webinar that we did because I, it was on the devops.com site. So hopefully one of the one of the team staffers can go to the on demand site and pull that webinar up and drop it in the link here. I remember that that was pretty good. There's a little bit lower than my pay grade or above my pay grade but I know that the, I know that the technical people on the call found it really interesting and very helpful. But hopefully that that will pop up here shortly in the chat for people. So we're getting close to the end of the hour.  Why didn't I say X. Yeah, so I wanted to keep this for the last mic. We are actually announcing a tech for humanity program within Joe get the intent of that program is going to be. We see this whole, you know, tight financial environment that COVID has created. We see a need to help a lot of our not for profit organizations. So what we are doing is we are rolling out a tech for humanity program within Joe get that will enable our customers. Anyone who is a Joe get customer will be able to donate a Joe get license to their choice of charity or not for profit that they believe in. And I think that that's our way to look at, you know, this whole word from a very different eyes, however, in we all need to help each other as simple as that. And I believe, and, and the, the other reason is he's not for profits may not have, you know, application developers are to automate their business processes right. So, right, you know, they will be able to do it fast, they will be able to do it easily, plenty of resources available online to learn Joe get you don't need a sophisticated knowledge to get started with Joe get very easy to do very easy to implement. We feel this is our way of giving back to the community. And to the organizations that our customers believe in as well.  Well, that sounds pretty cool. Oh, and if people look in chat, you'll notice that one of our team linked the webinar that we did with with with revision Joe get it was at the beginning of September, I think anyways, it, it's going to be on there online on the Dev Ops site. And we encourage you to join it I think it was a very deep dive technical discussion with a lot of a lot of really cool, a lot of really cool features to it. I think we're just about out of time.  You know, every event that we do you're at, you're supporting us with with press activities and having your Red Hat certified operator available for open shift and having you know your your commercial offering in the marketplace I think is really, really great. I'm always happy to invite you to participate with us because you folks just never tell us no I can't because it's always yes I can and that's that's a really, that's a really great thing to have, you know, we're the partner so Ravish Dewan, President and CEO of Jogit. Thank you for joining us here today on the open shift commons briefings are our operator operator hours edition. Thanks so much and we wish the best of luck to you going forward in the rest of the year. Thank you very much. Again, we are pleased to be part of the Red Hat family as well. Thank you so much for all the support from Red Hat. And, and actually, someone just popped a question in the chat. Where can we learn more about Jogit? Again, as a company, you can learn more about the company by going to the company website but where does if someone wants to really, you know, get a trial of Jogit or, you know, kick the tires or, you know, what's the best place to do that? Yeah, easily. If you want to try Jogit, you just go to JogitCloud.com, you can register for a free trial, 14 days, it won't even ask for credit card. And there is, we have a knowledge base dev.jogit.org. Very easy. I mean just search for Jogit knowledge base and you will get all sorts of information around Jogit, how to do what. Go to YouTube, you know, just search for Jogit and you will be able to get a lot of how to videos, how to get started with Jogit, so on and so forth. So plenty of resources online to get started. Well, if there's no other questions or helpful prompts coming in to the chat window, then I think we can, I think we can give you a minute and a half back on your day, which is not something that happens very often. Thank you very much, Mike.


We'll have a little time to delve into some of the details as well in our discussion. But I want to turn it over to Hans Freick, to give us a little bit of perspective on the experiment that we've experienced, that Novartis has kind of been markedly in the drug coartan in the malaria context. Thank you, Quinton. Let me just get this. Yeah, it is here. Good morning. Thank you, Quinton, for organizing this meeting and for inviting me. I'm very privileged to be here. I've been working on this program, the Malaria Initiative within Novartis, for well over a decade, and started really at the time when this was actually a very marginal program. It was marginal at the time. There was a groundbreaking memorandum of understanding in place between Novartis and the World Health Organization, but that was actually a piece of paper. It wasn't really something that had been operationalized in any meaningful way. So the question is, is this a best practice that is scalable and replicable? I put a question mark, really, because you will see that there are a number of points that we learned across this journey that we as a company would not be willing to replicate in exactly the same way. The good news is that if you look at the World Malaria Report, that in the last 15 years, the disease burden from malaria, especially mortality numbers, have come down significantly. Estimates are that more than 6 million deaths have been averted between 2000 and 2015. And a great deal is really thanks to higher rates of international funding, as we also saw, was a key drive in the HFAs programs, but also the work of companies making bed nets, making medicines, making diagnostics. That has really come a long way together with partners in countries to make those available. So for Novartis, the vision is really to collaborate with everybody who has that same vision to end malaria for good. Some people say, in my generation, depends which perspective you still have. I think there's sometimes more optimism than realism, but I think there's a good sense of urgency that we need to make this happen. I need to really go beyond this objective of reducing controlling malaria, because as long as you don't eliminate it, this disease can be around there forever, causing death as it is today. Every two minutes, a child dies from malaria. Can you imagine? It's really simple to treat disease. It's still causing so much havoc. We do this as a company by basically pursuing four strategies. It's making the life-saving treatment quartum available in the right quantity, quality, right packaging, right formulation. Improving access, making sure that prices are right, and we'll talk about that. Supportive interventions with healthcare workers, with disease awareness programs for communities, for school children, disease education, and with an eye to what is going to be needed at some point in time, new medicines because parasites have proven to be able to outsmart any drug that is being thrown at them. Over the years, we've been quite successful in many ways. Novartis was the very first company to come up with an Artemis based combination therapy in one single pill, and I should really give credit to our Chinese partners who are the ones that made the invention, as I would say, a byproduct of the Vietnam War for those who are not familiar with you, but that was really the time when the research in China to find new intramarials was actually kick-started. Over the years, cumulatively, we have supplied well over 750 million coartum treatments. In Europe, there's a European championship for football ongoing, and just to kind of give an idea of what this represents in terms of pills. So 750 million treatments, if you put all those pills next to each other on the green of a football area, you can fill more than 100 football fields and turn them from green into yellow, which is the color of these pills. Or alternatively, if you imagine the Eiffel Tower in Paris and the amount of steel made to direct this tower, these pills weigh three times as much as the steel of the Eiffel Tower. Now, that is for today. We are also having an eye to the future with two molecules currently for malaria treatment in research, in phase A and phase B, and we continue to support malaria teams in ministries of health but also in the health facilities more downstream in the healthcare system to provide support with malaria diagnosis treatments. A number of considerations have really informed our work in the malaria initiative. Clearly, obtaining marketing authorizations with well over 70 countries in the malaria endemic world has been quite an undertaking. In some places, we don't have offices, so we need to work through different mechanisms to try and get that organized. Segmenting the market is very important. We have come to realize that the offering that we initially went out with wasn't really adapted to the diversity of the markets that we were serving. Again, the formulation. We talk about very small pills, but they are still too big for a baby or a young child to swallow. So, as we launched the program, it took a number of years for us to actually improve the formulation to make it really pediatric-friendly as a dispersable tablet that is easy to take and actually sweet tasting unlike every intramural tablet, which is typically tasting very bitter. We also worked on packaging, realizing that the packaging as such is actually a vehicle and can be used in the dialogue between the healthcare professional and the patient or the caregiver as a means of conveying not only when and how the medicine shall be taken, but also why you need to comply to the full three-day course of treatment. Basically explaining very pictorially that even after two days you might find yourselves healed from malaria infection, actually if you analyze the blood, there is most likely still going to be a few circling parasites and those ones you need to take out by taking your third day of dosing. So, very schematically we also incorporate that into the packaging. Tiered pricing. Very important topic. I'll come to that in a moment. The markup in the distribution chain. Challenging, of course, but not only so much that a manufacturer of medicines can actually do to really influence that. So here comes then the scheme that we developed during the journey. In the beginning of the journey, basically the pyramid was much more simplified. It was only a bottom part, which was what we called the public sector, government-led and NGO and donor-funded business. And that was the top part, the premium market where perhaps three to five percent of people living in malaria in the countries can go to purchase out-of-pocket medicines to treat a disease. But in between, we didn't really have the right offering. And so, you know, it was really at some point in, I think, when was it, 2004, that the Institute of Medicine published this report, Buying Time Saving Lives. A program to really get everybody thinking, how can you provide a kind of a global subsidy to then make medicines that are being sold in private sector outlets available to people at very affordable prices? Now, the report has been gathering dust, if you will, for a number of years. It took really until 2010 that finally an experiment was launched to make anti-malaria medicines, particularly in these Artemis and Invasive Combination Therapies, available at an affordable retail price, thanks to initially approximately 90 percent or even 95 percent of donor subsidies. So the mechanism was here to follow. It was a global fund that set aside monies to send to manufacturers of these products, let's say 95 percent of the price of the medicine, whereas then a distributor in Africa would place an order with the manufacturers and would receive an invoice just for 5 percent of the cost of the medicine. The idea then was that the distributor in Africa was able to bring in this medicine at a very low cost and then pass it on into the distribution chain, making hopefully reasonable but not too excessive margins so that in the end, at the pharmacy level, patients could actually buy a life-saving anti-malaria medicine which had the right quality around it for a very affordable price. And so that was started as an experiment in 2010. It has worked or it has not worked. I mean, this depends on how you look at it. One of the shortcomings one could say is that in the private sector still today there is hardly any practice of diagnosing first to confirm your infection of malaria and then treating. So there is most likely quite significant over-treatment. So that's probably one of the downsides of this program. But it allowed actually to serve kind of an emerging middle class of patients that would not want to seek healthcare in a public structure where they might have to wait in line or may not get the right service or they might be confronted with stock-outs. And here they could actually pay out of pocket at a very reasonable price. Now this is basically the overview of the numbers of treatments that we have sold of Covertum over the years. As I said, this Memorandum of Understanding with the WHO started in 2001. There was really no government at that time really interested in taking this type of medicines. Although there was already quite significant concern about treatment resistance against the older treatments like chloroquine and sulfidoxin-paramethamin. But the absence of basically interest to update this type of new treatment was really because there was no donor funding for it. And so the government said, well, we can't really afford to change our treatment guidelines even though in a country like Zambia by then half of the patients that were treated with chloroquine didn't get a cure and went either into severe malaria or ultimately didn't really survive it. So it took in fact that donor funding to really propel the uptake of this type of treatments. The declining trend is really driven by mostly the advent of generic suppliers who have joined this battle as of 2008. Here's actually an example of one of the Covertum packages. It really depends on the body weight whether you take two pills per dose or less or more. But it also has this kind of row here where you see those parasites, which I was just talking about, to really encourage people to take that very last few doses because this is one of the challenges with these type of treatments. They are so powerful and so quick acting that people might want to save them for an infection to save some money. Now coming to some of the key success factors, the key learnings. Indeed, the dual branding, that was what we actually started with. York is also available here in the United States, by the way. You can buy it in small bottles, 24 tablets, for an adult dose. You can buy it in Australia and Europe. And there the pricing is kind of comparable to what you would take if you go to a malaria endemic country, if you would take a prophylactic treatment, whereas this is not prophylactic, this is more a standby treatment. For Western travelers as a safety blanket in case you are somewhere and you think you have malaria and there is no medical care around, you start treatment and you get a diagnosis later. The implementation of the intra-country differential pricing proved very important. We actually had, in some countries, still have today four price points coming from public sector facilities up to the different levels in the private sector. I personally find that it is difficult to maintain those four price points. Three price points are probably more logic to achieve in the long term. The financial sustainability actually has been a huge challenge for this program. I should say that if you really take everything into account, that means also the early work of research and development in the quarter, then the financial sustainability is still not there. 15, 16 years after launch of this program. If you take that out and look quarter by quarter, we have just recently actually been able to pay our own bills entirely. This is the point I was going to make. That's something that we hadn't really expected when we were starting on the program and certainly as we are contemplating for new generation of the millerials, we will have to approach things differently in that respect. Clearly the success factor is the partnerships. We would not have been able to achieve what we achieved with the millerial program without partnerships across all phases in the value chain. Beating research and development. I just wanted to say that, for example, we approved the formulation to treat infants and children with malaria. It was medicines for malaria venture who gave some catalytic funding that also then helped senior management in our company to make the decisions we go and continue to pay for development even though this is not a financially attractive area. Now, over time the challenges and you have seen on that pyramid, we have gotten over the year an explosion of the number of different quart and packaging because we, of course, are serving very different tiers in the socioeconomic pyramid. Then you get the next kind of country customization requests. For example, in Nigeria where the health authority has mandated manufacturers of certain classes of medicines including into millerials and antibiotics to put in a small code or a sticker, kind of a scratch thing that you need to scratch and then a 12-digit number appears which you can then SMS toll-free and then it actually helps to authenticate the products. That comes with the cost, clearly. If other countries would expect the same, this would drive cost up even further. It's also difficult for us to plan all these different quantities of packs. You have less flexibility. There was a time when the Global Fund was just starting with its malaria disbursement practices. Things went very slow, for example, in country one and things went a little bit more smoothly in other countries and so our huge stock, at some point I should say, we had 23 million quart and treatments on stock without a firm purchase order behind it. Imagine the cost and the working capital and the risk of a product that only has 24 months of shelf life. So that flexibility with all those multiple packaging differentiations is becoming a challenge for us. We've also, and that was actually surprising really, seen that product diversion has become a bit of an issue in a number of countries and even counterfeits. We thought we are selling this at such a rock bottom low price but even counterfeiters would move into this market and try to get some margins there. Financial sustainability, as far as a key consideration, the forecasting uncertainty has been very huge and has caused a lot of concern because it's such an artificial market. Ultimately, 90% of the products of the quart and medicines that are being sold are either 100% or around 60 to 70% donor funded. So you get a very distorted way of ordering and supplying in a way. And then the question that we ask ourselves is now that there is much more, let's say, generic competition in the place. What do malaria programs in Africa and what do donors find of a value in our capacity building programs that we offer free of charge alongside with the product transactions? And that is actually something which, at the end of the day, as people say, price is king. And so those additional value programs that we're doing that are costing money don't get as much of a valuation. So these are just a few thoughts that I would like to leave you with, but we remain determined to make sure that no child should die from malaria in the future. Thank you. Thank you very much, Hans. That's terrific. And so now we have two potential models on the table. We have...


Ahead on Early Birds, the Falcons head to DC but some key injuries are adding speed bumps on the way to the cap. I'll tell you a doctor's point of view of the type of injury Kyle Pitts is reportedly dealing with. Plus the Falcons get ready to face another former high five quarterback and we get you ready for clean old fashioned hate plus a big one in the Big Ten. Ahead on Early Birds. Grab a cup of your favorite Joe and let's talk Falcons football on Early Birds presented by Mercedes Bent. Good morning and welcome into Early Birds. He's DJ. I'm Justin. Any leftovers left in the Shockley household? Are you cleared them out? Can you see this button? It's about to explode. That button's doing a lot of work right now. Same over here. We're both still full but we still got room for some football talk. We'll start things off with the opening drive. Falcons and commanders tomorrow. And the first topic is not a fun one. Some injuries for the Falcons. They're dealing with tight end Kyle Pitts and D. Lyman to Quan Graham. Both going on injured reserve this week with knee injuries and shock. No way around that these ones hurt. The offense really going to miss a guy like Kyle Pitts. Yeah, you miss Kyle in so many ways. Some people think about the production and just catches or touchdowns. But usually in this season it's been about what he can do to affect other players on the field. His presence on the field opens up so much for everybody else. So missing him is going to be a big deal. But other guys will have to step up and obviously I thought TQ is playing some of his best ball next to Grady this season. Yeah, we're really solid along the D line young up and coming player. Pitts and TQ both have knee injuries. Arthur Smith though not giving us a lot more details right now, but also not yet saying they're definitely done for the season. There's just still some unknown, right? They continue to get medical advice and both those guys will have procedures and you really won't know until after those procedures what the timeline truly is. So, you know, that won't be out there for the next four games. Yeah, we wish them both a speedy recovery. As we continue on the opening drive, Marcus Mario is going to have to figure things out now without his big tight end and shock. The quarterback's coming up a solid game against the Bears. Efficient passing, used his legs, did not turn the ball over. So DJ, how does he keep it going without Kyle Pitts? I think he just has to be consistent. He has to make precise decisions in what he does and that's what he did last week. He made plays when he needed to. He didn't force the football and now you're going to have players who, you know, you expect to be open and make plays. He's going to have to feed those guys and not try to look for one guy like he did sometimes for Kyle Pitts and force the issue. It's going to be really critical that he does that. Here's quarterback's coach Charles London. The biggest thing about Marcus is he's the same guy every day. So whether he throws for 300 or throws for 150, he's the same guy coming to build and I think for the quarterback position, that's important because everybody looks at him to kind of steer the ship and they see he comes in here. He's the same guy every day, puts in the same work and I think that's important. Alright, as we wrap up the opening drive, let's talk a little bit about the opposition this week. Washington's offense going to start Collins Hill alum Taylor Heinecke at quarterback. He took over for Carson Wentz. It's his job now. So DJ, what do they like to do when they have the ball? This is a team that's kind of be bound. They like to throw it. They like to run it. Heinecke is the guy who has some athleticism to him. So he can't create on the outside, but it's been a run game. Brian Robinson as we saw, he came back this year. He's played really well. Yeah. Antonio Gibson is another guy who runs pretty hard. They average around four yards a carry, but they will like to sling it around the yard, but this is going to be an interesting offense. I think the Falcons will have a tough task on their hand with this, you know, our former Collins Hill guy. Yeah, we'll talk about him a little bit more later on in the show. Welcome into Early Birds alongside DJ Shockley. I'm Justin Felder. First off, happy belated Thanksgiving, man. I hope you enjoyed that and everybody at home as well. We're here, of course, to talk Falcons and commanders in that Washington defense shock. They are tough as well. Jonathan Allen at the very top of the list of guys that I would never want to be mad at me. I don't want any four of those guys up front. But they got four first rounders up there. They're all pretty good. They're physical. We talked about it earlier. They can get after you, especially in the run game. Real tough defense, tough run defense. We'll see how the Falcons handle that in shock. The film room seems so out of context in this gaudy apartment complex. The district sleeps all night. Is that Garden State soundtrack? What is that? It's a good album. I don't know. I kind of e-mail a couple of years back. Oh, yeah. You got to see me come out. It's kind of a reach this week. All right. Go War on the Telestrator. We will see you in a few. But first, the Falcons pass rush took the wind out of Chicago's sales last week. Four sacks tied for the most they've had in the game this season. The other time that happened was all the way back in week one. One of those sacks belonged to Lorenzo Carter. And Carter's also got a pair of touchdowns this year. He sat down one-on-one this week with our Kelly Price, who took some exception to Lorenzo's post-touchdown dance moves. So first I have to pull up something. Because in the pre-season, I asked you what your touchdown dance would be. And you've now had two touchdown dances or two touchdowns. And you did not do this. A little nerdy dance. Give him a little wiggle. I was supposed to give him the wiggle. But you didn't do it. You had two opportunities to do it. And you did not do touchdown dance. I was too tired. Both of those opportunities, I emptied the tank getting in the end zone.  When is the last time that you've had two touchdowns in a season? That's wild. So, man, middle school maybe here. But yeah, it's wild. But it just shows anything. You got to do anything we can do to help team win. That being said, I mean, you're on pace for a career year. As it stands right now, just statistically, what about this team, this scheme, and even maybe just this organization and being home for you has helped you find that success? I think it's just this team. Everybody's just working hard. And we got one common goal, and that's to go out there and get a win every Sunday. So, I mean, I'm just trusting the process and enjoying it while I'm here. That's one thing, too. We enjoy working hard with each other. We enjoy each other in the locker room. There's that camaraderie that we just feel. That helps a lot. Win, lose, or draw.  That's motivating. Norcross alum, Georgia alum, all these things. Obviously, the homecoming aspect of you, coming back to Atlanta, there's a lot made of that. But how much of that is, you know, putting on that Falcons uniform is like a sense of pride for you, even more than maybe your years past in the NFL? Yeah, very prideful. I take that, take a moment pretty much every game and just thank God for the lessons, just being able to play for my home team. Like, this team I grew up watching. It just means so much more to me and I let the guys know. Like, we're playing for Atlanta. Like, y'all might not be from here, but I'm from here. We got a few guys on the team that's from here. So, we're very prideful. Every week, we like to talk about all the details that matter and what happened inside of play. This is a particular play here where you're going to get a Blitz pick up by Tyler Alger here. He's going to come around, end up picking up this particular linebacker. But this is poetry in motion because they're actually going to drop this defensive end and they're going to Blitz this guy off the nickel here, off the edge right here. The line is going to be sliding this way. So, Jake is going to end up picking this guy up, but this one guy who you need to pick up to complete this pass has to happen by Tyler Alger. And you can see him, he's coming from the backside here to create. Now, if the play gets started, here's your Blitz here. Nice job of picking it up by here, Jake. This guy is jumping off, but now this guy comes free. Who is going to pick him up?  Now, he's going to give Marcus Murriota time to deliver this curl right on the outside and it's perfect timing by each guy on the field. Now, look at that. Boom. Step in there. Look at that. Nice clean pocket here. Everybody's picked up. Now, you've got this huge hole to throw the football to for Marcus Murriota. You love the timing of this particular play here. Watch it come out of his hands. This ball's out of his hands and halfway there and he hasn't even turned around yet. Perfect timing by him. You complete it. Now, you've got a good play here. And this was just a nice job all the way around of each 11 guys doing their particular job, getting it done. And ultimately, it compiles in a first down for the Falcons. Shock, you're talking about a clean pocket for Marcus Murriota. We're getting ready to talk about clean, old-fashioned hate. More to come on early birds. Getting you ready for Georgia and Georgia Tech maybe got a little more interesting after last week. Plus, yeah, get your hands up under it and just make sure that your hands are the one touching the ground not the ball. That's a big reason Drake London was the first receiver taken in the draft, catching the ball as you go to the ground. We go deep with the rookie. Next. Hey Falcons fans, score a touchdown with low-tire prices at Mavis Tires and Breaks, the official tire retailer of the Atlanta Falcons. Visit Mavis Tire dot com to find a store near you. Birds is presented by Mercedes-Benz, the best or none. And brought to you by Georgia Lottery. Today could be the day. By Truist, committed to a better future. And by Home Depot, how doers get more done. I'm going to switch gears and talk a little college ball. Brought to you by Truist. BB&T and SunTrust are now Truist. Here again is Fox 5's Justin Felder. Welcome back into Early Birds. Back with TJ talking about college ball. So a couple days ago, Thanksgiving, everybody gathered around the table. Doesn't matter where you went to school, everybody got along. Right. You still feel that way? Yeah. Absolutely do. Feel good about it. Feel great about it. So you're going to feel good talking about Georgia Tech then? Absolutely. Very nice things to say about your rivals. No, but we can talk about it. Looking forward to it. All right, so Georgia, Georgia Tech. Let's break down the game. Dogs capping their second straight perfect SEC season. Just the third team to do that since 1992. They got Georgia Tech today. They're going to be scoring a four in a row in this series. What do they need to be careful of later today? We know their favorite. You know, one thing is taking care of the football. They have struggled in last few games, and it has not hurt them. But when you look at Georgia Tech, and their wins this season, they are plus 10 in the turnover differential. So that means if you turn the football over, most times Georgia Tech's going to find a way to win. So Georgia has to take care of the football and not give them extra opportunities. If you do, they're going to say this week. He played at Tech while I played at Georgia. We played against each other and we've spent some summers together and have a lot of respect for him as a coach. He played there. And when you've got someone that played at that university and that's their alma mater, there's a certain level of want to desire to represent the university the right way. And, you know, when he, they won the first game. They beat two top 25 teams within his head coach. That's Kirby talking about interim head coach, Brent Key for Georgia Tech. And they've got to be feeling pretty good coming up a road win against number 13 North Carolina. How much tech can that confidence help them?   They said they dominated them on the line of scrimmage. So that's something you don't really hear out of tech teams or team teams. Line of scrimmage going on the road. The toughness, the turnover battle, like you mentioned, here's what Brent Key had to say about the rivalry, why it's so important to the jackets. It's easy to say this is the next game on the schedule, but it's Georgia and we're Georgia Tech and that's why you come to school here to play in this football game and to be able to sit here and be able to coach in this football game. It's an honor and I'm really, really excited to get out there and get these guys excited. All right, so Georgia and Georgia Tech today at noon and really, I hope you got two TVs at home or at least you get the remote a good workout. Another great one starting at 12 o'clock today, Michigan and Ohio State winner with an inside track to the college football playoff. It's our Zaxby's indescribably good game of the week and Shock, what are you seeing this one break down for us? Yeah, that's an interesting one. I'm no Michael Jenkins J.J. McCartney from the other side from Michigan. They both run the football really well. Blake Corm, they all star Heisman Hoefel, running back. You can see right here got hurt in the previous week. Does he play? There's so many facets of this game but it's in Columbus. Everybody speaks Ohio State to go win. Michigan beat a blaster. Is this a revenge game for them? This game should be everything that is, you know, kind of choked up to be I cannot wait to see the highlights of the game at noon here on Fox 5. And Shock, you got to head to Athens pretty soon, man. I hope they either got the helicopter or you got an ultra peach pass or something. I've got it. I got it. Maybe I got a little police escort. Yeah, they got to take care of me. All right. All right. Drake London caught his fourth touchdown of the season last week. Might be counting on even more with Cowpins. One tough part of being a wide receiver is to make catches and this week's going deep. I think the biggest thing is getting your hands up under it is the biggest thing finding the placement with that and knowing whether it's going to be a hands catch or a body catch. So you kind of have to feel that out when you're out there for yourself. It's kind of hard to explain for me even. But yeah, get your hands up under it and just make sure that your hands are the one touching the ground off the ball. So you have to feel it out if it's a hands catch in terms of what you do. I would say a really really low ball. You're probably going to end up using your hands unless you're falling to the ground. But it's just all judgment. If you catch your body then do that in a more safe secure way but if you could catch it with your hands you got strong hands then I would do that too. Drake London looking for some more catches today. Meanwhile back to back weeks the Falcons have gone into specifics on it. In this segment we tell you about injuries and it's important to note this one is timely but it's not specifically about pits in his injury just a general overview on what he is reportedly dealing with. Want to get to know what's going on and what's going on and what's going on and what's going on and what's going on and what's happening dealing with Want to get that clear here is Dr Kyle Hammond on MCL injuries this week's Emery Road Recovery. MCL Injuries the medial collateral ligament this big thick ligament on the inside part of the knee medial outside part of the knee is lateral the medial collateral ligament is like a hinge so it helps save your outside of their knee then their knee could collapse in and as their knee collapses in the MCL or the medial collateral ligament can stretch or it can tear and so this is a very very common injury in football as you can imagine you think about all the people who are getting hit into their knee getting tackled and in those types of things there's grades with MCL injuries so we grade them grade one two and three we keep it simple grade one is when it's just a mild sprain where there's just a little bit of disruption or a little bit of stretching of the ligament and although it's something that's noticeable and a little bit painful the degree of injury is fairly mild it heals fast it gets back to normal pretty quickly and a lot of times there's minimal downtime from a grade one MCL injury guys can sometimes even play through it or maybe not miss the next game grade two is more of a medium-sized sprain or a medium-sized tearing and then grade three is when the fibers of the ligament actually tear completely both of those two injuries will still heal naturally on their own but they just take a little bit longer because there's a little more disruption of the tissue and so sometimes a grade two MCL which is very common injury can take two weeks even up to four weeks a grade three can take five six weeks even up to eight weeks depending on the location of the tear thanks doc it will be a high five homecoming tomorrow for taylor hynek a miles would tell you about his road to the nfl next owner of the birds has been presented to you by missa these bands the best or nothing falcons fans score a touchdown with low tire prices at mavis tires and brakes the official tire retailer of the elana falcons visit mavis tire dot com to find a store near you all right shock time for our play of the day presented by lucra the new friendly competition app here's the question falcons play in so many close games will sunday's game be decided by one possession uh i would say the thousand played so many games that came out of one possession i say this one continues the trend oh man i it's hard to disagree with you on that time after time it comes down to that last play that they finished it up defense shut the door last week if you want to compete head to head with your friends just scan the q r code on your screen we've got plenty of former high five stars playing quarterback in the nfl but unlike justin fields or trevor laurance taylor heineke took a less likely path to nfl starter our miles garret takes a look guys i simply cannot keep up with the amount of high five stars the falcons are playing each and every week today we're discussing the house of heineke taylor heineke over a decade ago he was playing just up the road at collins hill with the eagles setting records left and right winning games that leads to a career at old dominion where guess what he does pretty much exactly the same thing wins the walter patent award as the best player in fcs that leads to the nfl an undrafted free agent for the minnesota vikings often on the practice squad there things don't work out so he goes to the new england patriot's very short stint there only there for a month after that the houston texans he gets in for one game and one throw he gets injured doesn't last in houston so where next the carolina panthers he has one start there's first start against the atlanta falcons one touchdown three interceptions it's not a great game but not too bad he does get hurt in that game however once again so he decides to go to the xfl gets drafted there but coronavirus pandemic happens he doesn't get to play so later in 2020 he gets signed by the washington football team then the washington commanders now pretty good so far he has a great game last year two and oh the last few weeks let's hope the house of heineke doesn't strike again tomorrow guys miles thanks so much dj real quick one player to watch tomorrow chaser young comes back make sure we block him oh yeah need to block up front that's the key all right for dj i'm justin hope you had a great holiday weekend enjoy the game tomorrow see you next week


What's going on? Eat your boy, be nasty. So today, we're in the hotel. I'm in Eugene, Oregon right now, and it is pretty rainy. And we understand, sometimes you don't want to jump rope in that. For times when it's snowy or the weather's just awful, we got a hotel room workout for you. And this is going to be one of the few times that you see our workouts without jump rope. But today, we're doing it, no jump rope. All body weight exercises in this room are right here. So next time you're on the road, pull this video and do this workout because there's never an excuse not to do the thing. Oh, what's this? A little Zendu fitness tank right here. We're seeing the Zendu Nation 1 tank tops because we like these. If you like them too, then it's linked up in the first line of the description. You can grab yours right now. International shipping, baby. We know we got Zendus and Dudes all over the world. So if you want a tank, you want to get your own sexy on, click the first line in the description. Check it out. Don't forget you guys, before you get into this workout, subscribe to the YouTube channel so you never miss a workout from the Zendudes. We're going to be doing five circuits total and within each of these circuits, we're going to do eight different body weight exercises. Here's the thing you need to grasp before we start this workout. Tabata style means all out effort. So let's go 20 minutes as hard as you can, give it everything you have and let's get after it. All right, you know what time it is. All body weight exercises. We're getting started in three, two, one. First exercise is air squats. So with air squats, you want your feet about shoulder width apart, maybe a little wider than that. You want to bring your butt down so you're creating a 90 degree angle between your calves and your hamstrings and really getting tempo now. Get as many as you can in this 20 seconds all out effort through every exercise here. Here we go. Now we're going to take a little break. Chill. You've got 10 seconds before the next exercise. We got front lunges coming up.  Getting the tempo here. Again, we're creating 90 degree angles with just about every exercise we're doing here. So the 90 degree angle here occurs between your calf and your hamstring. So get full extension and explode up through your heel. Awesome. All right, rest.  Get ready for the next exercise. We got high knees, really focused on exploding those knees up here. Here we go. All right, here we go. So what you can see I did here is I put my hands about waist level. So every time I'm aiming at slapping my knee against my hand, that way I can make sure I'm getting my knees up and I'm staying explosive making this the most effective exercise it can possibly be. All right, 10 seconds. Chill. Get ready for the next exercise. We got more calisthenic work. We're doing feet front to back in three, two, one, begin.  So use your arms to pump yourself back and forth so you can get as many in here during this 20 second interval. Here we go. Two, one, rest.  We got washing push-ups. We got walking push-ups coming up next. Now we have full extension of push-up and if you can't do normal push-ups, do the same form but as you come down, come down to your knees and do a knee push-up. And again, the 90 degree angle here is between your forearm and your bicep as you come down in the push-ups. Awesome. All right, rest. The next exercise coming up is a plank. This is an exercise we really want you to catch your breath with but also make sure that you give it everything you have here, keeping that core tight. Here we go.  Here we go, five more seconds. All right, take a rest.  Get ready. We're doing the next exercise in five seconds. We got ab crunches here. Ready, on your butt, begin. And so really keep this as a controlled movement. We're extending your legs all the way and pulling those knees towards your forehead. Don't crunch your neck here. Slightly just bring your chin towards your chest. Perfect. Resting here for 10 seconds. We got regular push-ups coming up. And if you can't do regular push-ups, knee push-ups for you. Ready, begin. And again, we're focusing on exploding through your palms or your hands. And we wanna create that 90 degree angle between your forearms and your biceps. Get in a nice tempo as many as you can here. This is the last exercise of this circuit. And you are done. So go ahead and rest one minute and you're gonna come back and do this three to five more times.