he uh The modified system you have in place now is is that in place? The the six districts districts, but yes, it is six districts. It's not six districts Only two are up for election in november. Yes, and the mayor's job up in november Why were no council members on the committee? What was that? Was there that did that come up? Um, we wanted to make sure we had hands off that it was really a community-based An organized committee. Uh, we felt that that if we had Council members involved that it we didn't want it to taint the process process at all with our special interests or other gerrymandering of anything So we really had a hands-off approach on it. Did you have former council members and mayors on it? No, no, we didn't but you didn't exclude them too, right? Or no in our last charter review I said everyone that applied one they all won. Yes, your term is a four-year term, right? Four-year term two four-year terms term limits for mayor and you on the council before this this they're directly Yes, yes, and what would you say the relationship is a political question? Maybe a relationship between you and the city manager. How did that change? You said you became the spokesman for the city But sometimes in this city the city manager's office becomes a spokesperson for the city Well, our city manager takes in terms of being the spokesperson our city manager takes a backseat to the mayor But the city manager is right there without all the support You have to work very closely with your city manager when you are the mayor and you do receive a lot of information and But you have to have that close relationship That's the only way it works. You didn't see a change A change I received that relationship between the mayor and the city manager No, no it was in fact, it got stronger. I believe because you're working as a team But again the mayor is the spokesperson for the city And that's what the public wants to see because the mayor is accountable to the city Whereas the city manager is accountable to the city council Real briefly your thoughts on rank choice voting. You said you it did pass but they have they or didn't it didn't pass It didn't pass. And why would you think that would be something to go to? well in in trying to dissect our measure a campaign again, it's it was It lost by very little but the the plaintiffs that were suing us got very involved in the No on a campaign so it was interesting but politics, but Rank choice voting Well, I don't I don't believe we had enough time to educate our electorate on what it was and when they were afraid of it or they didn't understand it they voted no And so it's it's an interesting Concept and I think one that we're probably going to bring back again separately than the districts in santa clara but It needs a lot more education and that's what we have found the key is communication and education And we are doing a really good job of that in santa clara with social media and Next door and all the all the ways that we communicate with our residents high tech and low tech Did the geograph the geography of santa clara the city come up at all because that's that's an issue here east side west side of santa cruise West side historically is overrepresented on this body and east side is underrepresented same with santa clara So we had the two districts north and south We have one representative on the council from the north which is our whole Big huge business area. We have our stadium our convention center our theme park great america We have all the businesses out there. We have and a lot of residents is one council member everyone else is from south side and the number of meeting six we're talking about uh district elections and Also the directly elected mayor and compensation So what would be your best guess on how many meetings we should have because we're we have three that's in our Motion here or the suggestion of the mayor right now I would say a directly if you're just doing directly elected mayor three would probably be sufficient because the first is to get everyone acquainted with what you're doing and Then request from your staff representatives the information you need the second would be Public outreach public hearing discussion about the information that's brought back and the third again Public hearing public outreach and then a recommendation to the city council if you're throwing in districts more things Without are you throwing in an election method to or just districts? That's you know that would probably be another three more meetings Depending how if you throw in the election method or not If you're doing it all together you're talking you could be anywhere from three to three to five or six meetings Thanks. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. Any other quick council member. Yeah, what time of year? Have these tended to happen All different times of year. I think they were summertime winter time. Yeah, we had different ones. This last one was October or September Through march. Yeah, then we had to convene a redistricting committee the people that was a sub another that's another That decided proposed that what the district should look in less than two weeks The judge imposed less than two weeks to come back with a six district model Yeah, so we work pretty fast. Yeah Yeah We had we had to hire a demographer and all you know Any other questions vice mayor walkins. Thank you for your presentation and for coming to santa cruz I just have a quick clarifying question So the challenge you think with the community was not with the the two districts per se But primarily the lack of information or knowledge around the ranked choice voting Well, and yeah, and there's two schools of thought with us We had many residents that said we don't want to change so they voted no And others that said We want to change but we we don't understand this ranked choice voting And others just thought the whole idea was just bad And then right after that we were in post six districts and to give you an idea of santa claren our population If you're familiar with the city of san joseh that would be like cutting the city of san joseh into 50 council districts That's how small our districts are so you literally could get elected with 2000 votes in a district versus 20,000 or more, which is which would be required. That's how wattenville is The south tour right and men no menlo park is going that way this year Morgan hill and then of course bigger city freemont. They're all going to districts this year councilmember brown I just wanted to revisit councilmember neroyans question about the relationship between city council members and the mayor and staff working Sort of directly or indirectly depending on how you interpret the answer. So I um, so we have Staff in the city manager's office who who really do work with us and as do all the department heads and other staff who help us Understand things to do our job But we do have a process whereby council members can't really Be taking up too much time with specific requests from individual council members. So we do have to deliberate in order to get major Things that will take more than eight hours specifically To dedicate staff time So i'm just wondering if you have something like that how how that works because I could see every councilmember Treating individual staff members as if they're their personal staff and that not really be yes And we've had those council members to have it we treat so The way we worked it now we changed our policy that if you as an individual council member would like to have a major project You know have staff work on a project you have to bring it to our city council meeting under council committees And propose it to the council and if you can get a majority of the council to agree Then we vote on it and send it to the city manager's office. If not then it's It dies because we have Our staff is very very busy And every council member has different ideas about things. So we have you have to get You have to collaborate with your other council members before the larger projects are our Manager undertakes them Side from this presentation, i'm sure we'd love to see that policy. So i'll send a follow-up email on that Yeah, it makes a lot of sense because we had one particular council member that was just demanding every day He's no longer on our council But every day demanding the city manager or city attorney's office going directly to some department heads That shouldn't have happened in the first place then and so we had it was by necessity Last question was um You really believe that it's good to directly elect the mayor Not not just from the council, but from the community Do you have the same feeling about the districts too? About the at-large versus the districts. I mean do you do you really feel like they should be um should be district elections? Or you you're not happy with that i'm Santa claire again They they did select us for the lawsuit I don't think they really understood our community about how diverse we are in our community They they did sue us because of the lack of asian pop representation on our city council And so i'm not sure that the way that the judge imposed the districts on us that we're actually going to elect an asian candidate in fact It disenfranchised a lot of our top asian candidates that didn't live in the two districts that That they put up for election So uh, I will see with the results how it happens But I think ultimately all of our goal was to diversify our city council But I think the way that was imposed may not may not work, but we'll see time will tell Okay, so one more question. Yeah, um, you've just given us a lot to think about here And there are lots of other city experiences league of california cities, etc So I see this is not going to be resolved here. I am curious just in terms of the districts How did you deal with this question if someone's elected is a renter and is elected and then needs to move for whatever purpose do they Lose their seat you have to reside in the district and for santa claire We're seven members like you And we are lenses for the whole city And so now it's a whole different mindset for us when you know that you're responsible for your district and elected In that district. I hope we're hoping the lens doesn't change for the whole city Because that's how we've always operated and we hope yeah things don't change We're a little nervous about that All right Is there any kind of situation where you have a council member loses their apartment or their housing situation and they have to move Is there any like compensation from the city that would keep them there as long as they live? They're on the council because that's you know, you live in a similar housing market that we have here Ours is even I don't know No, that's not happened to us yet Yeah, because we haven't had these specific residency requirements except the city of santa claire Is everybody a homeowner on the council? Well currently and that's been one of the issues somewhat is that our city is over half renters and that's one of them Packholston doesn't own a home. Oh, that's right santa claire. That's right. Yeah, he rents a room rents a room. Yeah Primary residences out of state, but yeah, okay. Yeah, that's another story Loop holes in the election system All right, well, um, thank you and we if you are you okay to stay a little bit while we hear from public and if there's any further questions Okay, so Stay here. Yeah, once you stay there. That's fine. Um, I'd like to at this point ask if there's any member of the public That would like to speak to the side and this item is number 22 establishment of a charter amendment committee and if you would like to speak to the side and please step forward and Say your piece Hello, my name is julian franos stole. I'm the co-chair of the democratic socialist of america. I'm santa Cruz Today we're talking about how we can make city elections more fair and representative of the community And while the charter amendment committee will be looking at district elections I believe they should also look at and strongly consider a multi seat rank choice voting system I believe the benefits of a rank choice, uh system would outweigh the cost of a district system And would be more likely to increase racial and socioeconomic diversity on the council As a ucsc student. I've heard that district elections would mean that the campus would become its own district With its own council representative So my first instinct is to ask who is raising this concern and for what purpose It seems clear to me that this concern is not coming from the thousands of ucsc students Who have time and again demonstrated our desire to be respected members of the community at large And to have interests related to the community at large Some some examples of this are coalitions between student organizers and tenants Or between students and labor as we've seen with AFSCME 3299 Or between students and broader demands for racial justice in the city as we saw with the beach flats garden Our community goes beyond geographic bounds My solidarity as a tenant rests with other tenants in the city My solidarity as a Filipino-american rests with other people of color in the city District elections would silo community organizing and would likely Exacerate temptions between those on on and off campus or between neighborhoods And that's not even to speak of the thousands of ucsc students who would be left out of such a district The rank choice voting gives voters something to vote for it doesn't dilute the latinx population to a small percentage of a district It's shown to increase representation of people of color. It doesn't risk gerrymandering It creates new opportunities for city elections Uh for people who are excluded under the current system With rank choice we can get the representation we need. Thank you Thank you Nick speaker, please Afternoon council council members. My name is Don Iglesias and uh resident of Santa Cruz since 1978, which probably makes me vintage Santa cruiser. I would imagine I I want to commend you for looking at this issue and Considering direct election of the mayor, but also district election I you've heard from Santa Clara And hopefully you'll hear from san jose as well A lot of these issues have been pushed through lawsuits through civil rights issues I but I want to share with you my own perspective. I worked in Santa Cruz city schools for 24 years I was a principal I was assistant superintendent for the school district. It was principal at galt principal at westlake So I know the neighborhoods and the communities of Santa Cruz very very well Over those years and the issues that families face in in our neighborhoods in Santa Cruz After leaving Santa Cruz I became superintendent schools for san jose unified And worked in san jose about 32 33,000 kids adjacent to Santa Clara For eight years worked closely with the mayors of san jose as well. So I have a fairly In my mind fresh perspective on district elections So just a couple things you're probably aware that san jose is A city of district elections and has been since the 1970s as well But also san jose unified as a school district our trustee areas Are also district elected areas of the of the community So in my mind the advantage for council members being district election Format would be one is equal representation From all of the neighborhoods within the city and a strong voice from all of the neighborhoods within the city Am I going too slow wrap it up? We yeah two minutes. Okay. Anyway, we've had good leadership We've had advocacy, but nobody can speak About the issues with the compassion unless you really live in the neighborhood In san jose, I know that the the difference with district elections I it made a difference in the major outcomes and decisions that were made and promoted Yeah, you limited to two minutes, but yeah, thank you. If you have written comments, you could submit them to us Anyway, I hope that you continue to consider district elections. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right next speaker, please Thank you. I'm brett garrett and I care very deeply about election issues So it seems natural to say um that I would be willing to serve on the committee if it's if it's um happening Currently, I don't have any strong opinion about district elections or direct mayoral elections I do have some strong opinions in favor of ranked choice voting. I was very glad to hear that brought up today And also if the committee is given latitude On other issues, I'd be very interested in looking at charter amendments related to better transit and affordable housing Thank you very much. Thank you. Next speaker, please Again before you begin. Is there any other member of the public that would like to speak to this item? Okay, just line up over there that um, I need to line up because we're trying to uh Get to the point to bring it back. So anybody who would like to speak on this, please line up to my left Please go ahead. Hi. My name is and rica. Yeah, I'm the vp of diversity and inclusion UC san jose. I just wanted to say that I strongly support ranked choice voting I also think that um, this whole concept of redistricting the elections and everything like that is kind of suspicious to me. I would like to Uh, have more thought on this subject, especially given that if we were to divide like a lot of areas like live oak and the uc area They it would greatly disenfranchise those communities There are a lot of undocumented people in those communities that don't have the ability to vote I myself am undocumented to have the ability to vote and we need those folks need that support from the uc and in order to be Um, represented in these in these in these areas these spaces like right here um, also for the For the increase in pay like I totally understand that like you need to make it more accessible for people but Um, I think at the end of the day like if council members are voting against other measures that would also make Um living here more accessible Uh, there's an issue with that Because right now like one of the biggest reasons I think why it would be important to to increase salaries is to keep up with the um with the cost of living in this area Um, but I mean it's a similar issue that a lot of people are facing So I think that if if if just like the mayors are getting increases I think we should also be thinking about measures like rank control like other things like that That would also support low income communities in this city Um, yeah, that's it. I just I just want to continue to have uh students In this conversation and I'm going to bring this back to folks and stuff because We are definitely still here and um, we want to be supportive of People that have not been represented in these spaces. Thank you. Thank you Next speaker, please Hi, my name is lin colovan My I think this is a really interesting idea But my main concern is that there's only going to at this proposal there's only two at large city council appointed members And I was thinking there should be more people that are just interested on this Committee more than just appointed by the city council. So that's my main point. Thank you. Thank you Next speaker, please is there um and before you being kim. Is there any other member of the public that would like to speak to this item? Okay, you'll be our last speaker. Thanks Hi, my name is kim salisbury. I live in the city of santa cruz been in the county for about 40 something years I'm I really appreciate santa claire county coming out and for the city council to Coordinate this. I think it's a great idea directly elected mayor and chief of police also One can dream and um I think the district team could be really helpful To have you know, like when there's a situation now We tend to contact everybody on the council because every you know versus maybe somebody in our area that might really know that project I could bring up 350 ocean street. That one's been on the boiler for you know, six years. So I like the idea and And as far as the mayor goes, I think it's really important because that's the position they'd be going for whereas now It tends to be on the highest vote getter and it's pretty random. So I support it and I would love to be on a I like how you included everybody that wanted to be on the charter group I think that that's pretty cool instead of just selected a you know by a few so thanks Thank you All right, see no other Speakers on the side and we'll bring it back and I know there was a little chart that was created because there was an issue of the scope and I met with Members from city manager staff just to say that we can at least look at this to see you know one whether or not there's support right now to Have each of the council members select someone and also elect two at large But also to say this is just really a kind of a first opportunity to hear from the public on it We've never done a public engagement Through this manner where you have the no member no elected would be serving on the committee And I think it's good to say that if we are going to have that discussion We want to make sure that we we hear first of all from the public one About educating them on what this means but also hearing whether or not it's something they want to see us proceed with And so that's kind of where i'm looking at not the full for full-born Review and develop the language but really to make an initial pass of hearing from them So you have The chart that you're bringing up bonnie and i'm doing a little filler conversation And um, I think that um, we should have The ability to talk through you know what that means in terms of the scope here and then look for some sort of council action Let's see a word document because I was hoping that we could you know fill in on the sections Well just to filler, um, what do you think about taking a few more meetings? It seems to me I mean because when you say three then the people we select will have a very short term thing in their mind But then if the group as a whole decides now, I think we need more time And maybe some people are gonna have to drop off because they only limited that to those three meetings kind of thing Well, yeah, you know my thought was that this would be an opportunity to provide a report back To see whether or not there's interest after the committee had you know first an intro meeting and then had Received comment from from the public as public meeting and then If there's you know, obviously this is going to be something that would carry over in the next term So I didn't want to make any um, you know kind of preconceived notion But I think you would hear from the public at that point of how extensive a process They would go forward on looking at any number of these things whether it be the direct elected mayor district elections compensation Or other as as they may be so it's really kind of more of an opportunity to educate the public through this You know to form the committee educate, you know the public about these issues take some Take some public Comment and testimony and see which of these are the ones that the committee members might want to proceed further But not to really kind of make a a formal recommendation By december but just to see hey are these things that have merit to look at as for our city That was my thought Council member matthews. Oh, these are just questions. So you envision the charter amendment committee to do A first blush to fill out its scope Is that what you're no, I look at I look at us giving us and we gave direction at the last meeting to Look at district elections the direct election of the mayor And compensation for council members. There was also a discussion about The idea of rank choice voting and I think some of these things are ones where You would want to have a recommendation of those things to proceed and really come back the council to say how much time Should be spent on these so I look at I envision this where you we would have set up a committee they would be educated on our charter and You know have a public meeting about the discussion about our current process how we elect our mayor and what our Election system is we could narrow it down to just be a discussion about the direct elect of the mayor if that's you know something the council wants to do And then there would be some sort of um, you know Public education would have public meeting and then at a certain point if it's just narrowly focused come back to the council with recommendations on whether or not necessary Well, if I could just continue I'm I'm still not clear on the depth and progression But just a couple of comments. I do think the committee should be larger If it's going to have a a deep Dive into all these issues and come up with a recommendation seven selected Directly members I would like to see committee up to 15. I'm thinking like on the public safety committee something that And and the reason for this is each of us will Will designate someone to be our representative, but I think it's important to step back and you think what's the scope of diversity Geographic age ethnicity life Economic the whole business. What's the diversity professional? What's the diversity that you want on that committee? So that it does have the really best discussion possible and I think You know if we each appoint our own We're kind of not going to know It'll be some version of us presumably But I do think this is a really big deal. So we should have a committee that Accommodates a good deal of diversity in its membership. So that's one. I'd like to see a larger committee We talked we've Added a number of things here. It's not just a direct election of mayor So it seems to me there's going to be a lot more work involved I don't think that they can accomplish this In a meaningful way in the timeframe that's been spelled out here um, I think We will need longer more time to do that work and we talked part of the discussion here was about the work plan and um We are involved in so many we our staff and council members so many Really heavy-duty items right now. And I think this is an important one. This is going to take a lot of staff time to prepare Um, the background material the education of the community and so forth So I think in order to get the best product we have to allow more time for this Um to spin out and uh, realistically if it starts in A schedule so it starts before october and ends in december I mean basically october november this this city is going to be nuts with the election work. So Personally, I think it would make more sense to start this after the first of the year Allow a good deal of time The election experiences behind us and have a larger committee Give it more time work it into the work program So that's kind of where I'm going. I mean, I have my personal opinions about All of these things this isn't the time to say that but I think in order to get the best product out Those are the sorts of things that I would like to to see in the motion I appreciate that. I just think really this is something where we're getting an initial pass And I think we've had several cup subcommittees that have worked pretty efficiently And I'm not looking for a deep dive on getting a formal recommendation that comes back But I am looking at one initiating a public discussion engagement in ways that we haven't done before where we have Each of the council members identify a committee member. So I would Maybe based on your first point ask Maybe one of the members of the charter committee in santa clara council member if you can answer this Is there a certain point when you when you have more than 10 people or you know, it becomes unwieldy to even have a discussion like that Yeah, I can tell you that with the the charter review committee that I was the vice chair of there were like 19 people on it I mean it was incredibly diverse, but at times You do you know, it might have been a little bit too much, but you also you have ironically The the gentleman who was one of the plaintiffs in our lawsuit had been appointed to that original committee and he dropped off Um I think somewhere around like 12 i 12 or 13. I think is kind of a good number And once again if somebody's not there, you know, you still have enough people where you can have a meaningful discussion. So So maybe having more at large, you know appointments by the council have a few more outlaws that are selected by the full council Yeah, that that's we always kept it to the council got each got one member And and there would be people who would be lobbying or you know writing letters to ask to be the that Appointment and then we did have like an open interview process For the other Members one one approach the time when I was on we had like the chamber of commerce and the citizens advisory committee So the council at that time took a few groups that represented key segments of the community and asked them To appoint one of their members and so we so we had that contingent We had the council that was the time it was 19 and then we had at large and and those at large people were interviewed Um in public at a council meeting and answered questions and then the voting and deliberate result So everybody could see who it was and could hear what they had to say Council member chase Um, I'm really excited that we have this item on today because I think it's got some There's just really interesting discussion already happening and I really appreciate the presentation Um I'm I'm of the mind that we should I thought we were just going to have the few things that we Recommended last time but then we heard about today something we didn't even talk about which was term limits So now I feel like that should get added on and rank choice voting came up as well and uh to me I understand why you know the idea to kind of get a sense of it right now But I don't think you can adequately talk about these things without talking about them together because for instance compensation Has to go with the conversation about these other things because one way to do that is actually even to reduce the size of your council Which would so you kind of have to talk about all of them if we're going to talk about any of them And to me that means a longer discussion and so I just don't see how it could happen in the period that's outlined Um, and I would also like to support a larger more diverse group as well So I'm prepared to support this moving forward With the additions that we heard from folks today to also be considered a longer timeline and a larger body And then I'm absolutely behind supporting this. I think it's a great idea All right, wonderful. So one of the things I thought we could do is having this sort of chart to kind of like Narrow the focus and then we could come back with recommendations like for the directly elected mayor I would add in their term limits So that would be one as well as the term those would be two things that would be Considered as well as we have the overarching compensation. So I would say bullet those two if whoever's at the keyboard to include term limits and The issue of So term length and term limits and term length under directly elected mayor to potential subcategories Term limits and term length And then in terms of district election in my opinion in the interest of just even initiate a conversation just saying Proceed or not proceed, you know, just to have a kind of discussion about this in regards to Having an initial meeting with the discussion and seeing if it's something that you know, the community is interested in or not So it's not a full-blowing process where you're redistricting proceed or not proceed Under district elections proceed or not to proceed, you know, that's the kind of potential subcategories and in regards to the Discussion about compensation I think you also need to look at in addition to the compensation, which is the bigger picture Is also look at the size of the council as council member chase mentioned Do you have One a way to fund that do you have fewer council members that are working full time rather than the current status Where we have part-time and so size of the council and full-time part-time So I don't want to get to I don't want to wordsmith this here today for all of us But I'm thinking that your your point about Proceed or not proceed that decision is sort of applies to all of them So, um, you know because and that may be based on, you know, some of the further review that this this committee does So I I almost feel like putting proceed or not proceed on the following in each of those bullets and just have that in each of the boxes Yeah, and then I also agree that under other we I'd like to see ranked choice voting included in the exploration And then I guess other you put down If you could put under there the size and I heard One we have seven directly appointed by the council and then five at large. So be 12 member Mm-hmm For what we're just aren't we deciding that not them? Oh, this is us giving direction on it. This is us trying to frame the scope of this 12 12 member seven because I heard I heard council member Matthew say that she wanted to have a more diverse pool So seven direct with five at large rather than the two which is in this the recommended Recommendation say even eight at large. So you got 15 total. It's always good to have an odd number And then it's more people six at large 13 I would go for that. Okay 13 Well, let's vote on the number at some point. Sure. That's why that's the second column That's what that's there for just I this is kind of based on what we did during the budget to try and narrow it down um So are there any other things that you can that um, you know one you wanted task on Councilmember Narayan, I don't know if this would fit in here, but One thing that really jumped out at me and I'll just repeat it again is Looking at the limitations of who can serve Under our current system and would that change with These potential changes so limitations to how you know, maybe under other You mean like the renter homeowner Right renter homeowner person who works full-time person who's Just how is Having a part-time council getting part-time pay For instance limiting who can be on council Yeah, I saw that there was a discussion in santa clara about looking at how to encourage greater participation in the election process So maybe other encouraging, um, you know participation for Candidates, but that was something that city of santa clara. It looked at I think in their process as well That's one for matthews. I guess this Comp it maybe it falls the question falls under the compensation Frankly unless you're getting up to an actual professional level salary Everyone is serving as public service and at some compromise to their personal life That's a fact. Yeah And and I don't see us Jumping the council salaries up to the level of what you would consider Full-time job. Yeah Got council support. They can well they called it barriers address the barriers to city council service So I I would add on there, um, the Support to support staff basically city manager's office Support staff to council and mayor Yeah All right, so I mean I just I um, I appreciate the conversation And I feel like that in addition to sort of what we're talking about the specifics now I think it would be really, um, it would behoove us to also have some pulling of the community And a really thoughtful process in terms of timeline. We're not under the constraints as santa clara was in terms of legal threat, but um, this is a big deal. We want to do it thoughtfully and mindfully Knowing that we do have so many renters in our community knowing that I think three of our current council members within My term have moved actually. I think while on council. This is a this is a big conversation with a lot to consider Um, so although I think having this kind of outlined in terms of a potential subcommittee scope I I like them that task and having them look at that I just wonder if we want to take a step back and say in the next several months Maybe a subcommittee of the council could get together and think about you know timeline pulling These considerations what the structure would look like an application process, etc Prior to sort of just jumping right in and I'm just because I'm feeling a little bit like whoa This kind of feels like a lot really quick with a lot of other considerations in terms of timeline and changing council members, etc Well, just one quick comment. I would add under district elections Uh, and it's obvious, but just so it's their, uh, number of districts Just so that we are clear that that's a consider so we're not talking about six districts for sure Because I like some of the Discussion that we had from Santa city of santa clara in terms of the question about How quickly we proceed and how we proceed given Mayor trazos you're You're thinking about this being a committee that can come together and Really kind of take some of this on people who are it's obviously going to have to be people who are interested in the topic who have perspectives on it and You know to take a Do a quicker review maybe not that deep dive I actually would like to have some community input from a group like this In order for me to make decisions about how we proceed in the longer term So so i'm not so worried about the you know, this is we're like too much too fast. I think Given the way you have discussed and envisioned it. Um, I i'm comfortable with with moving ahead now That was my sense too as far as not like, you know Going in deep dive, but really kind of do an exploratory and how much more time do you want to invest in the polling and others to see So and then bringing in people council member crone On the time on that thing I I do think we should start very soon. I was wondering if you could say what some More or less approximate timeline when we're starting council member matthews mentioned the first of the year um I like The you know, there's a head of steam now. Um, there's interest maybe, um It would take a month to get you know applicants evaluate them Starting in october november First meeting I you know, I um had met with some city staff and we were talking about you know, what it would look like and I think realistically probably sometime around october You know and towards the end of october and then you know, I frankly if you're not able to have Three meetings, you know, then it's a matter of giving a report out and see how you know, you know What is the feedback we're getting because I've heard from many people they'd like to have this public discussion and engagement So i'm not so firm on like the idea that there's some conclusive You know proof we're going to go forward, but I least like to initiate the process So I'd say sometime by the end of october and then give a status update in december seeing how things are going So I have a question for council member chase you put the um It came out city manager's office support staff. Did you mean council office support staff? What what what did that what does that mean? I meant support for the council, which would be in the city manager's office, but you can Support for council. Yeah Office support for council, so maybe get so Not have city manager there just office support for council Sure They were to report to the city manager. They would be in the city manager's office. It's just Okay, so um, if there's no other top go ahead vice mayor walking not necessarily top But for clarity of the purpose will when they return With what they return with recommendations What what will they specifically be asking the council to do with the information that they Come up with I think we get a status report back from You know the group as far as where they are in december and you know at that point It's it's a report back on you know what they've done I imagine they'll be an introductory meeting public meeting where you educate them about our current process for Direct elect mayor. I think it's not going to be a deep dive on those probably campus compensation But it really kind of opens up the opportunity to have a full public discussion on these issues And then when they come back and say hey, you know, we're looking at these We think we need this this much more time to have this discussion Or we think it'd be really effective to have polling regarding these issues because I think they're beyond the scope of just Having public meetings and hearing from people about where we are That would be something that might be appropriate at that time to come back and say Hey, we've had some limited experience and this is what we're recommending the council do moving forward I think I'll go ahead In terms of what the first stage might be It seems that Whatever group is selected would have to have more than just an orientation to the way we do it here But I think it'd be important to say what are cities throughout california doing? What's their experience? What are the trends? What are the legal suits that are driving district elections? Are they relevant here? I mean there are a whole lot of questions that That don't rely just on our local experience But assimilating at least some kind of common knowledge experience That gives them a basis for saying we want to pursue this one in more interest Not so much this one, etc. So yeah, to me, it's not a quick and dirty orientation Well, you know each each community is definitely unique. I know we cannot compare ourselves to santa claire I was really wanted for illustrative purposes to say this is the process they used to look and I think it's a matter of Hey, how can we better engage with the public to actually have a review of this? It's a little different than maybe how we've done it traditionally where we're you know engaging in hearing from the public and then Informing whether or not we we as a as a city as a council want to proceed With any of these and hearing directly from the public on what their what their views are on on this So I I hear it's about educating It's so would it be sorry just from since I can make sure that I'm clear on terms of what We're ultimately asking them to return back after three meetings It's essentially saying yes We've discussed this and we think that the city council should further pursue more information and community outreach and potential Changes in this way. So there's on these various categories. Yeah, okay, or they could say just for clarification We don't think you should pursue that's right. That would be something they could come back with as well. Yes. Yes And so council member crone just the proceed or not proceed. That's up to us right now whether we're gonna proceed or not proceed I think we're also when they hear public I mean they might say hey, this is like a non-starter right when they're out there people say it's not something that our community wants I think it's also we're giving them direction to talk about but that's one of the Subcategory but they will take up all of these categories. Okay. Yeah, I think we have to decide right? That's what we're going to tribes a group. That's the next one agreed to committee scope So, I mean I've just asked, you know, we kind of have Some guidelines on the size of the the potential committee down below and I'd just like to go down this I mean, maybe we did this for Other items during the budget process. I mean we could say are these things we want to support on As a consensus as a council or if you were opposed, we'll do votes on each one As far as directing the scope of the committee council member chase So term limits and term links. Is that specific to the mayor or is that would that be applicable to all? It's just for the mayor. So should we then also add in addition to that? Do we want to have them discuss term limits or term links for all elected members? That wasn't part of it, but you could put it down in terms of compensation down there term limits for the council I mean probably something you should think about because it impacts the other ones So maybe put that down and compensate size of council and slashed or council terms For clarification on encouraging participation Do we want to specify what that means? For diverse representation or I mean say more with What we're saying meaning by that I know These which one for encouraging participate participation under other I I just I just think it's something where I mean that was a point that council member norion brought up in regards to The discussion about like encouraging more participation to serve on the council and diversity Of diversity. I think we was kind of addressing the barriers, right? So I think just being I mean To be a little bit more specific about what we mean by that So throw it out there as a topic. Yeah, yeah, put it in there. So yeah, that's the thing Encouraged. Yeah, that's it I think it's something where it's kind of open-ended and we could they could you know discuss in terms of participation and encouraging Participation as an elected. I think that's what the whole has an elected official Okay, council member crone. I'm liking the way this is going. I really I would call for a vote. I don't know I know the next group is waiting I hear that um, we're we're about 10 minutes over. I want to just say that um for the agreed committee scope Let's go through the direct elective mayor. Um, is this something as far as the committee that um, people are comfortable with scope Yeah, but term limits fell off of there. We want it in mayor and we want it It's down in compensation. She just moved to down council mayor term limits down at the bottom. Okay I just not a company unless there are any objections.  Okay. I would you can do it So, uh, I move that we establish a citizens amendment committee With the following document showing the scope of work with that committee um In terms of timelines though, I do agree that um, this might be something better um To maybe how I mean just the process of picking the folks to sit on it I think I would like to see this happen Perhaps um going into the new year So looking at maybe starting this the committee in um January 2019 Well, that was not the motion I was gonna make so I'll let others ahead if you want to make it. Well, we need a second and or we need there was no second Okay, so You know, I uh would move to establish a charter amendment committee to be comprised of 15 community members with seven selected directly by individual council members um By august 24th 2018 and six at-large city council appointed members through an application letter of interest process Facilitated by the city manager's office. I would love to see some kind of timeline for that Which and I don't think I think august 24th is pretty quick here. So it's totally unworkable. We can you know, I mean, so I would say By council members by rather than august 24th. Sorry. I'm amending already Perhaps uh, september Seventh I don't know what day of the week that is but And two out-large city council or sorry six out-large city council appointed members through an application letter in temp process facilitated by the city manager's office to be completed by Um The end of september said september seven september seventh for the council members selections And but then we're gonna have to if we're all voting on the others We're gonna need up probably a little extra time. So end of september does that seem reasonable So they could people could the committee could start october We have to It depends on how much time you I guess you went for advertising We can we can sort of sketch that out I'm trying to recall for some of the other processes that we've done where we've selected members of some committees It typically takes you know Month to month and a half to go through the whole process And we can schedule a meeting So what we can do is work out a schedule to have it be done as soon as possible I think I think that's kind of what you're interested in doing That's why september 30th seemed to be about six weeks from now And the second bullet second bullet Direct staff to develop a work plan and meeting schedule so that the CAC commences honor before well, so in october With the progress check in with council honor before december 11th 2018 second that And well, I'm sorry We should clarify though that in the scope of work that we want to use this the bullets in this table For consideration I'll second that council member narayan I'm concerned about the timing because one we're going to have a change on city councils so logistically I'm wondering for instance, there are council members here who will appoint folks and then they won't be here After that period of time. So that I'm concerned with I'm also concerned with the workload that staff currently has we've tasked them with Looking with the county and finding new locations for homeless services We've tasked them with implementing the housing blueprint So I just feel like they have a lot on their plate as well And other things that I'd rather have them focus on I want this to be focused on but I don't see this as Extremely timely. I don't see this as something that we we must desperately start working on So that's my concern with not setting a date until after the elections Because I'm just wondering logistically how that would even work extremely Could we put the council mayor turn limits on in the other category? They don't belong in compensation The other thing I was going to say I council member round. I don't know if you noticed in your words you said 15 and then you said six I support the 13 all together six At large and seven council members. I'm not so good at that. Sorry. I was reading the language And the last thing is responding to uh council member neroyan That happens all the time like when I when you get on the council all the commissioners are from past Selected by past council members who are been off the council. So I mean I don't see a problem with that Okay, so let's go. I have there's a motion on the floor in a second Any further discussion? I would like to go for 15 I'd like to have a slightly bigger committee you think of the committees that we've charged with really big stuff like the water supply advisory committee the public safety committee Going back in time. So I think we benefit from having just a slightly bigger group So I'd like to just offer the amendment to make that 15 members with eight at large You know given the um quick timeline that we're asking for folks to get up to speed You know and the comment from our The visitors from from santa clara, you know, I'm I'm worried about having an unwieldy group and you know We as we suggest to the public safety committee. I think it's 11. So I mean, I'm pretty comfortable with sticking to 13 Okay, there's a motion does the I don't know how the seconder of the second so yeah Council member neroyan I would like to hear from staff on their workload and if um, they realistically Think this timeline You know something they can meet uh, I was just checking with staff to see what the the The process wasn't a timeline was when we last did a similar process to where we had to do the applications and This is for the wassak process. We had to uh Have interviews and all that and so the response was about six to eight weeks to get through the appointment process And then the other big question is uh, it's correct. You know, we do have a Pretty heavy workload. And so the other approach we've taken in the past is uh, whether we've used the facilitator So for example with the wassak process, we used a kind of third party facilitator to kind of provide that support So that's another question as to uh, how you want to do that. So um, I think that uh, you know, we could certainly within, you know, six to eight weeks have the appointment process completed for you and to have The that decision made um, and then Uh, I think it would just depend on Uh, you know, we could certainly within we would have to make some adjustments in some of the workload I mean, that's the honest truth. We'd have to uh, go back and and look at uh, with adjustment We can make on some things, but we can generally bring that back to you. Um, and uh, Make those adjustments and make it work for you Thank you, that's what I needed to hear I didn't want to put one more thing on your plate and then um, have us Put other things that I think are a bigger priority You know behind this so thank you Thank you, so go ahead councilman. It seems like we're having discussion before a second No second So that's what I thought but then I heard somebody say no second second. Yeah, I second it I'm motioned by councilman brown second by myself I um, um, you know, so I just if anybody else has comments on the the size of the committee It seems to be the issue that's come up In our discussion, I'd be happy to hear it. I would support larger also I can live with 13 although 15 sounded, you know, we got a lot of different opinions on this And I feel like the more we can get at large perspective. I think is really helpful um, I'm not gonna I if we don't get to 15 Um, I am concerned about you know the points that council members matthews the vice mayor and councilmember norion made about the length I think that there is this is very ambitious to do in a very short period of time I think if we readjust our expectations and know there's not going to be much that comes back to us In december because there's just not going to be enough time to provide adequate information for this committee Regardless of size to digest Then we're not going to get very much in december, but it'll maybe at least give us some Guidelines of where we're where we're headed and know that the vast majority of work is going to happen in the coming year I just want to if I may I just want to really echo the that comment I think that this is a really big topic with a lot of Education required as well as input So if this is simply them returning to give us a pulse on what the community could What the community is feeling and what the council could consider that seems like a real reasonable ask of a small Sort of truncated if you will timeline for a committee to really open up a huge conversation And then knowing that that's their purpose Then I think there's clarity in terms of their expectation and what the expectation of the council is from them and staff And I think councilor brown mentioned that and I'll echo that that is the intent Just to comment on one last thing is that to the point the city manager made about Whether we'd want to facilitate or I feel like up until december We wouldn't have that but that could be something at that point that if the committee comes back with recommendations of We need to do this really robust outreach process and all of that that would be something we'd have to consider at that point Which would have a financial impact? So I think that's something we should not consider until we at least get this first blush from them in december Yeah, and I would just add at that time we could also consider other variations including expansion of the committee size And mayor just another suggestion perhaps for you to consider Given that you've kind of defined the scope today One thing we could do is staff could come back and at your next meeting and maybe put together our work plan That's a little bit more defined so you get a better sense of what it would be again We haven't really delved into You know all of it until today when you've defined the scope. So that's a possibility We can strongly do that for you if you don't get an informational item that'd be great Okay, so is there motion on the floor and a second Journey further discussion He said on 13 or 15 13. Okay. I'm ready to vote. Thanks All those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed that motion passes unanimously So thanks for your patience on that and I want to thank you But mayor gilmore and councilmember for coming over from santa clara. Thank you for that presentation. I'm sure we'll remain in touch I'll come down there too You know We're going to take we're going to take a five minute break and resume at four o'clock Welcome back. It's a little after four. Thank you for your patience I appreciate your patience as we went over the last one. We're right now have we're up to item 23 next up on our agenda item and this is um the 1024 soquel avenue appeal of the planning commission's approval of a special use permit and design permit to construct a Three-story mixed use building to include a 1600 ground floor commercial space and 12 apartment units in the cc community commercial zone district This item is an appeal which will be conducted as follows First staff will present their report Second the appellant will have 15 minutes to speak and present evidence in support of their appeal Third opponents or the responding applicant will have 15 minutes to speak and present evidence or responses Then we'll have public comment two minutes per per person Then the appellant will have five minutes to rebut And then last we'll return to the council for deliberation and action So that's going to be the format for this particular item And i'll right now then start with the first task by turning it over to Mike fairy senior planner to begin the process Thanks, mr. Mayor council members Um This project was heard by the planning commission what i'm going to do is summarize my staff report and then take you through some slides And then talk about the public comments a little bit So the planning commission heard this item on uh may 3rd Three people spoke in support of the project four people spoke in opposition of the project The commission discussed the ground floor of the commercial space and modified one of the conditions of approval to Basically to add some windows some fenstration To make the pedestrian Visual access a little greater than was originally proposed and i've got slides that i'll i'll show you all of this on The planning commission also supported a request from the applicant to defer the tif fees until the building was occupied They also recommended that the city council look at considering the tif fees Prior to occupancy and set up at the building permit issuance The municipal code allows that fee to be collected prior to the building permit or at final occupancy however the Fee structure includes government code six two zero zero seven Which allows the collection of residential or commercial tif fees at building permit issuance If the city or agency has adopted a capital improvement program The annual and an annual approval of a tif Program, which is the city's current practice Public works did say that the tif fee Bank if you will will probably Be next to nothing after the highway one Nine interchange project starts so they're encouraging That the tif fee be taken at building permit issuance um after about three hours of Deliberation Back on may third the planning commission unanimously approved the project on may 14th An appeal letter signed by seven people was submitted The appeals based on five items in incomplete audio recording Historic preservation commission review power line location Zoning and general plan sections that were violated regarding the design of the building and general plan and east side business improvement plans That the building Didn't match So the audio recording problem was identified. It was a computer glitch the Appellants were given a full recording and the jet the action agenda had been posted online 48 hours after the hearing The historic preservation commission reviewed the original project plans On april 16th 2008 where they unanimously recommended approval of the design of the building at this site The hbc had no concerns with the modern design of the building Several commissioners pointed out that the architecture was consistent with some of the art deco buildings already existing on soquel avenue And one commissioner actually spoke about the corrugated metal that's in this current design saying that it had been used by previous well-known architects throughout the city The exterior building materials and the same modern approach With the mass and the curved corner element nearest the corner of soquel avenue and kayuga street exist in this project, which i'll be showing you in a second The power line location Which was part of the appeal is twice what the pgne recommends The planning commission unanimously approved the project finding that it was consistent with the general plan and the zoning ordinance And in the discussions section of the staff report I've listed 16 general plan policies that support the project as well as the goals and design recommendations of the east side business improvement plan that supports approval of the project So the project site is About 11,000 square feet. It's on soquel and kayuga In 2008 the planning commission recommended and the city council approved a similar project In terms of the exterior building There was two commercial condominium units and six residential condominium units above so Between that approval and this approval the use the interior of the building has changed The fenstration has changed as a result of that newer use The current proposal is to construct The previously approved three-story mixed-use building With 6,600 square feet of ground floor commercial space Mix of 12 studio and one bedroom apartments within the building The apartments range from about 670 to 760 square feet The application also includes a request for a density bonus The applicant is proposing 10 or one of the units to be designated as a low-income density bonus unit Providing 10 of the allowed units as low-income units allows a density bonus of 20 or two additional units in this case The applicant has not asked for any concessions to the zone district standards So when they do a density bonus they can ask for reduced setbacks or increased height or less landscaping and None of those consensus have Been asked for In exchange the low-income unit will be rent restricted to 60 percent of the AMI the average median income The Uh far for this project is 0.95 and the project will have a density of 46.8 units per acre The design of the building meets all the cc's on district standards It meets the setbacks Meets the parking it meets the height the landscape requirements the open space requirements for a mixed-use project Site plan provides 15 parking spaces that are open and available for the mixed uses The apartment of public works has Well, the applicant is requesting a 10 percent reduction in the required parking and that's based on the mixed use Where office uses generally are eight to five And when those offices close those parking spaces will be available for the residents Public works has reviewed that and recommended approval and the planning commission also Proved that 10 percent reduction So we'll take you through some slides So that's the project site. We've got the grace commons project behind it The vault is on the other side of the street Public parking lot the fire station The zoning in that area is community commercial Across the street is public facility The general plan is a mixed use high density that whole area And the building is going to replace This church the grace united Methodist church. It was about 34 feet in height It was built right up to the sidewalk The proposed building is about four feet higher than this building The previously approved project that went through the city council the historic planning commission Or the historic commission and the city council Is shown here. This was about 35 feet in height Again, this was a different set of uses so the fenstration has changed Reflecting the new uses that are proposed with this project This is the north elevation that its face is so cal And that's the kayuga elevation So it's the same form the building the same kind of exterior materials It's the inside that has changed So this is a shot of the vacant lot. You've got the grace commons behind uh mh can building Um, this is another shot of grace commons from kayuga street three-story building I'm not quite sure how tall this one is And then Three lots to the east. There's a modern design Relatively new residential mixed use project And the kayuga vault A couple of the soquel avenue the rio theater Just where this whole Art deco kind of look I think came from Right across the street the public parking lot and the fire department And then a large office building So this is the current site plan And i'm going to show about Four or five slides of the project that went to the planning commission And then show the applicant's response to some of the comments that the planning commission had So the site plan shows the parking there's 17 spaces 15 are available for that mixed use aspect of the project where you've got a commercial space here That's going to be operating eight to five The residents will go to work The their spaces will become available And when these folks leave when they close the office those parking spaces will become available for the residents as they return There's also two tandem spaces and the applicant has indicated that Those spaces can be rented like for a premium for somebody that has two cars Or maybe somebody that doesn't use their car that often and they want to park it more long term There is a bus pullout that's going to be dedicated. There's a large bulb out on the corner of kayuga and soquel Eight foot sidewalks street trees A common area for the residents They've got 12 class 1 exterior bike racks And each unit has a class 1 bike rack inside of the unit that works on a pulley system So a revised landscape plan that came back to us since the planning commission meeting I think some of the commissioners commented that They would like to see something that sort of grounded the building and made it Appear attached to the ground a little bit more. So we had some landscape boxes put out And I've got some shots of elevations of this And the private patio areas for the outdoor space in this area will be landscaped as well So the ground floor plan just shows the office space the utilities Two one bedroom units on the second and third floors you've got a studio unit One bedroom units all of these guys have their open space on outdoor balconies the ground floor has a patio area And that's the third floor again with the outdoor balconies for the private open space These are the class 1 pulley bike lifts these little areas So this is the west elevation. This is the one that faces grace commons and it's got a more residential field to it It's facing a residential building It's about 35 feet away from the property line And the setback requirements are zero For the cc zone district This is another elevation of the building and again, these are the plans that went to the planning commission You can see the metal exterior the cement different sections of wood paneling This is a view of a long soquel avenue and these are bay windows that have that wood treatment This was the elevation that staff and the planning commission were concerned with this would have been the The frontage where we thought maybe there should be some more connectivity between the pedestrians visual access as they're walking down the sidewalk And again, it's got that curve that goes around the corner That's the kayuga elevation So in response to the comments from the planning commission The architect carried this wood feature down to the ground floor They installed planter boxes on both the frontage and then on the kayuga side They included some down lighting that area and you can see the The planter boxes And they also Develop some perspective plans so that you can see the size of the building compared to the neighboring buildings So this is a shot looking straight down kayuga with a vault across the street And the grace commons behind it And this is a shot from kayuga looking at both of those projects This building actually looks a little bit taller than this building not counting the roof Grace commons The perspective again the grace commons the proposed project in the vault And this is a photo simulation That was completed by the architect and submitted prior to this hearing so the number of emails and letters That I counted and it was kind of confusing because I started getting them from a variety of people But I counted 44 letters that were in favor of the project and 66 letters that were in opposition of the project and two of the emails that I got yesterday one was from the charlie hong kong and one was from did you see those comments one was from the orange snipers who had said that They originally wrote a letter in opposition of the project because They had seen the plans and that was on a neighborhood flyer And that they met with the applicant and went over the actual plans and they said oh, we don't have a problem Or they basically sent those emails yesterday. So I think there's some misinformation out there So as this project Has been reviewed by the planning commission they have found that it's consistent with the general plan the east side business plan The zundistrict standards Um Part of the general plan directs us to foster cooperative Efforts with landowners lending institutions Area residences and businesses towards mixed-use developments This mixed-use project is in an area that has a lot of opportunity for people to walk to stores restaurants entertainment Staff's recommending that the city council deny the appeal Uphold the planning commission's approval of the special use permit and design permit Based on the resolution that's attached to your staff report So I can answer any questions you might have. Thank you, mike. Are there any questions at this time? Councilmember crone The flagpole People are saying that that's sitting. I know a new height limit or something What's that?  No, that was my first question too Now it's an architectural mind think alike. No, no architectural feature. Um, they feel that it Is a significant architectural feature it can be approved over the height limit as part of the special use permit We had findings for approval. I think it's kind of attractive. I think the planning commission Agreed that it was attractive So it is allowed to go over the height limit the building is limited to 40 feet Thanks, and um, what don't I understand about our It's just uh, maybe it's academic at this point, but our affordability thing I thought it was 15 percent and as I understand 15 percent of 10 units would be 1.5 units And then he gets a bonus to get two so it would either be 1.7 units or 1.5 units Why is it just one unit and then he gets a two extra units Because the density bonus just looks at the number of units that would be allowed So it has to be based on the 10 The original 10 units what happens to the 0.5 that we're missing. I think that'd be an in lieu fee And is there an in lieu fee calculated here and They have to come in with their agreement Um, carolberg economic development The ordinance is written that this uh project falls under it rounds up at 0.7 So basically if you have 1.5 you owe one unit and you pay an in lieu Partial in lieu fee of 0.5 you have the option of writing the unit or paying a partial in lieu fee of 0.15 and the way the state density bonus law works is that The base development is 10 units And so that's why we're applying the 15 to 10 units because the two additional units are earned by the density bonus Under the density bonus ordinance by providing 10 of the units affordable at 60 area meeting income and the state law also Does not as a does not allow us to Um separate the inclusionary and the density bonus unit in other words the unit that is an inclusionary unit Can also be the density bonus unit by state law And we originally had in our ordinance that They you couldn't use our inclusionary units for the affordable density bonus units But that was changed by state law and you approved the amendments that are consistent with that So carol so the one would be part of the 0.5 the additional is it paying in lieu fee? That would be an in lieu fee one unit is provided That would be at the lowest affordability level, which is 60 area meeting income And that's the density bonus level, which is lower. Thank you. And so how much is the in lieu fee? Do we know that? No, we would need we'll need to calculate that Okay, but it will be calculated, right? Yes, it's calculated and I appreciate getting the one unit. It's a great thing too council member brown Just would say I have a number of questions about the project and the appeal But I think I'd like to reserve them until after The appellants speak and we have some discussion because I maybe some of them will be answered I'll hold off for now. I think if there's no other question at this point I would prefer that we'll we'll turn it over to the second part where the appellant Will have 15 minutes to speak and present evidence in support of their appeal I don't know if there's a Slides or anything that or should we take down? Just whenever you're ready, we'll Just to clarify the mic the emails was 44 in favor of the project and 66 To uphold the appeal is that be it or 44 to deny the appeal and 66 to uphold the appeal Um You said there was a 44 66 and I just wanted to clarify that 44 people were in favor of the project. So that would be denying the appeal and 66 People were not in favor of the project. So they would want you to support the appeal and deny the project Thank you. Let me just ask because I mean I think this is something where we also had a planning commission meeting on this as well You're just saying since that last meeting. That's the what we've received. No. No, that's in total there Okay. All right. Thanks Okay, whenever you're ready Hopefully you can hear me So thank you to the members of the city council For listening carefully to our appeal regarding the proposed design and special use permit To 10 24 Soquel avenue development Three of us will present on behalf of many on the east side Many have already written letters and those that have come make it That could not come to this postpone appeal date will speak during the public hearing period My name is Candice Brown of East Morrissey and I will speak to the particular design and special use permit concerns Dolores Talbert will speak to the concerns of the local businesses along Soquel Neighborhood community area and Don Norris will speak to the broad concerns of the east side midtown community 10 24 is an iconic Soquel is an iconic location at the corner of a kayuga in Soquel It has historical note as the location of the fondly remembered grace united in Methodist church An iconic building in itself as a classic revival church with notable Marbled stained glass windows and shimmering facade made from crushed abalone The sweeping white corner was part of a once extensive Trolley rail system and therefore kayuga is a wider street The location sits at the heart of the Soquel neighborhood commercial branch of 40 business district And therefore is important as a cornerstone of any future development For those reasons the city council ordinance said the project design had to go first through the historical preservation commission An earlier design in april 2008 not april 2018 as noted in the city council meeting website It was a very different design with pedestrian engagement with proposed commercial spaces Soquel entrances awnings and warm warm or more traditional facade materials The city staff opted to not take the newer design to the historical preservation commission because the designs were so similar But this is not the case as seen in this slide The buildings while each three stories are very different in style retail entrances on Soquel balconies awnings window sizings and placement and especially in facade materials on all floors and roof These are completely different projects and should be treated as such with a renewed review required by the historical preservation commission This business this building design proposed now is a very modern building a vertical corrugated metal From floor to the roof and now they noted a change Since the we made the the appeal Roof line and even on the historical roof mat which is part of the special use permit along with a design element mass Also part of the special use permit Which is not found on the original design The building is asymmetrical in all sides and not in character with adjacent homes and neighborhoods There is no usable open space as 11,000 square foot lot Which is very small has 17 parking spaces for them tandem parking unique to this project Parking is noted on Soquel along with driveway access on Soquel Rather than high quality durable materials throughout the building the building has smaller aluminum windows painted metal doors And corrugated heavy gauge porous metal and composite shake roof There is no significant window trims other than an eight inch piece of wood under the Front larger windows and then you have the awkwardly sweeping corner That fights with the rest of the building for balance with prison like windows on Cayuga and Soquel Architectural landscape details are minimal, which could otherwise add to the visual richness of the project and streetscape The public hearing at the planning commission brought up many issues and displeasure with the design by four of the seven commissioners Some transcript material was provided to the council and there's more There was no context of this building design in the broader context of the fabric of the commercial or neighborhood known for stick Sorry Spanish Mediterranean influence and queens and homes and these pictures were all done within a half block of the location There is no attempt with this design to blend as all the good infill development do With the fabric of the area and especially disappointing as the commercial area is known for its 30s and 40s art modere not art deco by the way a streamline look known for horizontal lines subtle wall edges Fluted elements in some post art deco motifs from the 20s Which would be indicated by vertical Windows are typically ribboned or round and many have a more nautical or streamlined classic look The iconic classic vault building sits across the street from its very modern design And the two would sit together as uncomfortable stepchildren There is so much to inspire the design among a very engaging neighborhood commercial Area that is prospering more and more with retail Many local favorite restaurants and entertainment areas noted recently in sunset magazine Hello, my name is Dolores Solis Talbert and I live In the Area here. Uh, I've been in Santa Cruz since 1969 and have lived on Brathburn Since 1983 I walked to the shops in this area and have been acquainted with many of the shop owners So in talking to them over time they expressed a growing concern about the developments on sokellen water And I'm here to tell you what they're saying and what motivated many to send emails To the city council particularly in regard to this development To preserve the east side neighborhood Character and values the community would like to advance The idea of an architectural design review board both businesses and neighbors are Advocating for a design review board to preserve what is fundamentally important to the east side community tasteful architecture in scale less mass and All in character with the surrounding area the current design Is disappointing to all of us in the neighborhood Both neighborhood residents and store owners were disappointed with the design. They felt quote unquote. We could do better Some described it as an eyesore for the east side business community And feel that this building is not a community benefit to anyone Store owners are extremely concerned about adequate parking in the business district for their customers And look at today's traffic and looking at the future of gridlock in this already gridlocked area Businesses thought there would be retail on the first floor of the building which would promote more shopping in the area As stated in the east side business plan They want a design that integrates not only the look but its use in the community People spoke of sunset magazine article august Of in of the sunset magazine article august of 2017 which praised the look and feel Of our unique small scale beach town The article stated like the boardwalk the strip in and around Soquel avenue keeps things retro modern With spots to have a drink catch a show or find a locally carved skateboard Residents and businesses owners want to protect our unique business areas and our historical cultural landmarks In conclusion, we believe that the city can do better and hope that the leaders of Santa Cruz will agree Thank you Who are we? We are a historic beach community. Why are we here? We want our appeal to be accepted We don't want to stop this project and appreciate the housing it will provide Especially the one affordable unit We know three stories is a huge footprint, but we accept the height and mass due to our extraordinary housing needs We want changes in the design which would enhance this project and help it become Compatible with its neighbors The general plan calls for infill development to be in scale and in character With the existing neighborhood This proposed design looks like an imposing generic commercial office building made of green corrugated metal Nestled among the understated charm of streamlined modern buildings I attended a community meeting in 2015 at galt school. David you were there And we were tasked with visioning for this area We broke into groups and being selected to be the reporter I stated our group wanted to focus on Soquel avenue from moracy to brownsafordy Charmed up. I heard with easels awnings great signage and improvements to the pedestrian experience Preserve and protect our little piece of americana Interestingly and currently the east side is Experiencing a bit of a renaissance Akira lilians are just a few examples of thriving local businesses Neighbors enjoy walking to the many shops and restaurants on Soquel Recently Sunset magazine has featured some of our businesses the crate place Homework childish to name a few and we are now becoming a destination As I walk Soquel I asked a few pedestrians walking to restaurants What they thought of the building after viewing its image doesn't belong A portland natives stated portland was ruined with a lot of Modern buildings and I don't even recognize the place anymore This proposed design is alarming because the east side area improvement plan calls for pedestrian Development on Soquel from moracy to Brant's authority this area was dubbed main street and was encouraged to develop storefront character on the sidewalks Improvements such as welcoming streetscape Interesting materials like wood stucco and tile are called for the area plan states quote More attention should be given to the urban detail and ambiance of an eclectic mix of wood and stucco structures That form an architectural edge to the street Furthermore it states quote the maddock development should respond to the santa cruz setting and character of key architectural features of the district the plan asks quote How does the streetscape? Contribute to encouraging and supporting pedestrian activity Unfortunately This building being 1600 square feet of mixed-use office space on the ground floor Will not engage and vitalize the community. There are blank facades on kayuga and soquel We need larger better quality windows on kayuga Arbor's insets arcades awnings would soften its massive footprint thus supporting pedestrian engagement The project architect assumes a greater burden connecting the facade to the street because parking is in the back And the building is placed on the sidewalk If not mitigated this building will have no connection at all with the business district and neighborhood We need a community design review board so businesses and neighbors can be involved early in the process This design review would have businesses neighbors and architects much like the visioning committee after the earthquake What can be learned from other coastal cities? The board of architectural review of the county of santa barba has many points of concern But I'll speak to a few number one Make sure the height and scale And design of the project is compatible with the surrounding neighborhood Two shapes and massings should be in proportion with other existing structures the same site On the same site and surrounding areas Building materials composition and color on all sides should be in harmony with each other This design can be improved awnings wood stucco better quality and larger windows on kayuga Higher quality materials are demanded for corners as they are a focal point for the community How can we fix this? We have a suggestion with all due respect Number one form an ad hoc committee with two architects from the planning commission plus a contracted city architect To make design modifications two send modifications to the historic preservation commission Three bring this back to the city council for approval. We can do this This building can be improved. It's not too late The soul of a community is like a spark of light Fragile and in need of protection Once destroyed its spirit cannot return We ask you to protect the east side business district and neighborhoods by adopting a design that will be complementary with the existing community I have a quote A nature's culture resides in the hearts and souls of its people That's Mahatma Gandhi Please stand with the east side and protect our historic beach community And the culture of brand Sephardi's main street For future generations by accepting our appeal. Thank you Thank you At this point We have the opportunity to hear from the responding applicant who will have 15 minutes to speak and present evidence and response So please whenever you're ready. Do you have any slides or so? So we'll take a moment to get that going. Thank you All righty. Thank you very much Long day for you guys for sure So I just want to emphasize again that the planning commission approved unanimously this project They spent three hours deliberating the architecture the use the compatibility with the neighborhood We have two architects on the planning commission Who spoke a lot Extensively about these issues. We have civil engineers almost everyone on the planning commission is related to the building industry They concluded this project is consistent with the general plan that it's consistent with the zoning ordinance That is consistent with the east side business district We are not asking for any variances. We're not asking for any exceptions. This is consistent with the current zoning ordinance It's consistent with the general plan It is not relating to the corridor plan Uh, I don't think mike mentioned this but in the past approval of this project back in 2008 I actually showed a four-story version And I was told this is what we want. We need to go up. We need to intensify the corridors Please hold on for the general plan and the zoning to be updated because we are going to do this quickly No laughter intended here. I'm sorry But that was uh, what 10 years ago and we still haven't done that But so I said okay enough of this i'm going to come in with a project that's consistent with the current zoning and that's what this is Um, they put up a slide Excuse me, which showed the eclectic nature of soquel and they use that as an example of the architecture It would be nice to get that up. But we have a lot of those slides also, but it was a composite Very interesting slide had victorian had modern had I use the term art deco. They're using art modern it had uh Right right from the a-frame Derenish initial architecture the red wing shoes architecture. There's everything in between. It's truly eclectic What would have the people at the modern era said about the victorian architecture? Oh, we can't do modern we have to do a victorian because that is what's there We can't use modern materials We cannot do modern design We cannot use modern spatial relationships and windows because the victorians are here Now that argument is an interesting argument and I would say it has some credence if you have established a design Guidelines and design standards that say we want victorian. We want art modern It's not here. Your ordinance doesn't say that it recognizes that this is an eclectic Area with a wide variety of design So the question is I think you have to look at this design and say is it a good design? Will it complement the area and we certainly feel it does the planning commission unanimously felt it did Deep now I need to go to here. Okay, so let's see I use Good, okay, so this is a exhibit that the appellants I think I assume have been circulating I was told by several people that this is what they saw the image on the left is not what we are proposing It's never been what we propose. It's not even close to it Now whether this was intentional or unintentional. I don't know I can't say I do know that several people have told me This is what that was presented to them as if it was my proposal So I have to say I wonder how many people who have signed this petition if I saw that and said that was going in Mine I'd be concerned. That's not what we're proposing. We never did. I don't know where they got that image Maybe they took a photo of the of the slide and it came out in that manner but to put it on a on a slide and drop it on people's door steps and post it on door on Telephone poles and the like is really Kind of irresponsible in my opinion Let's go to the next one So this is another one that they've been putting this was put They trust someone trespassed on my property and put this on the notice sign So I had two folks. I saw that they had written a letter and I kind of knew their businesses and of them and they Mentioned that they had been shown the previous Illustration of the project and these people were the Uh Horse snipers and the Charlie Hong Kong's and both of those people have now retracted their previous statement When I showed them the plans, they both said, you know what this the real plans look good They're not anything like what I've been showing So I think that needs to be considered and and frankly Some kind of sense of responsibility in the part of appellants or people who are objecting to projects to be held to the same standard that we as Project proponents are held to so Clearly this building is going to be taller and bigger than the vault the vault is not the only building we need to be concerned about There are three. There's a three-story 15 units immediately adjacent to this project We are certainly consistent with the mass of that building The Methodist church that they show as an iconic example of architecture was over 34 feet tall That's the same height virtually as this building. We're 39 feet to the point of the roof the peak of the roof Which you will not see from the street So if the mass is a problem The very structure which they are saying is the iconic example Of architecture and should be duplicated But that's not a problem But 34 feet in this context is a problem So maybe they can argue that the architectural details and everything else is a problem But that's a different argument than what they're making Um So anyway, I'm going on too long. I'm going to jump right to the conditions 44 and 45 They talk about the timing of the payment of fees I would like to state that I believe the subcommittee One of the issues you were looking for is to change the timing of fees to be coincident with the impact There's a nexus there a relationship between the timing of payment of fees and the occurrence of the impact So my uh request as I made it to the planning commission I'll make it again to you Is that the fees for the park fees number 44 and condition number 45, which is the traffic improvement fees Are paid at certificate of occupancy when there will be an impact Prior to that that's a burden on me in terms of having to fund that money Come up either capital or loans and to argue that the city's fund is going to be depleted Therefore we need the money. Well, I understand that but I also need the money So I would argue that just because the city needs the money, I mean Uh, we all want what we want and try to get it as soon as we can get it But I think there's a matter of fairness and nexus here that should be considered So I hope that you deny the appeal And uphold the planning commission's unanimous approval And Dennis will talk more about specifically the architecture. Thank you for your time Are you going to speak yet? Oh, okay Mr. Mayor council council members Thank you for this opportunity to Make a presentation on this project. I I think that I I want to sincerely Would you pause for a second Can you just speak into the mic because it's sometimes it's yeah, they're amplifying. Okay. Thank you Go ahead. Okay. Um, I want to thanks. Thank you for the opportunity and I want to sincerely Uh offer my presentation as A window into what I see in other words. I was the one who interpreted The neighborhood. I was the one who created the project originally I was the one that altered it based on changing Situations and changing certain circumstance now. I'm here presenting to you under the circumstances of changing politics too So, um, I don't want to I I would like to stick to the academic side of my design and how I arrived at it I also would like to dispel some misinformation that I feel May have been conveyed in some of the visual Presentations that were circulated And and so I think in all fairness, I'd like to Show you the correct way of doing it and the incorrect way of doing it If as an overview the project is Is unique in that it has this curved surface and it also is an oblique The streets come in at an oblique angle So it doesn't present itself as as most buildings do as square And the fenestration has to deal with that curve. And so I Tried to Create a model in which I could Preview that and I learned a lot about the the building. I learned about the energy efficiency the orientation The each apartment has a view and so therefore each apartment has to be integrated All of those things are considered and integrated into the design before the exterior is designed So we don't I don't go and just get a bunch of pictures put them together and then look What I and you know what my building looks like and then design the inside is the other way around This rendering which is the one that was uh, it's basic the basis of the the flyer shows Something that's impossible to view you have Three different points of view in a in a photograph one is an elevation you cannot see the roof of the building Because it's it's foreshortened by the angle you would have to be in on highway one to see this So that's one thing the other thing is if you notice the The scale of the the adjacent building It is really based on a point of view looking this way And the the picture of the of the uh, vault is looking this way these have been photoshopped together That does not follow the rules of perspective Which is which is was established in the renaissance and we've been using ever since In which there's one point of view for a drawing a two-dimensional drawing Sort of three-dimensional environment. So here you have An actual picture from a location on the corner of Across from from the vault which shows the real scale of the the commons building with the vault The the building is is it has 12 apartments eight of which face the south and relate to the common area And the other four are on the Soquel side and they each have apartment the each apartment has A balcony So it has outdoor space and the two units in the front relate to the street. That is a very urban type of relationship where the building is right up against the sidewalk And maybe we don't have as many of those examples, but certainly It's it's an urban situation that we're going to have to face if we want to increase the density in buildings we have Bay windows is in order to capture the west light It's like a light scoop and it also gives relief to those rooms that are right on the street So the the the view of the of the of the proposal shows the three elements That make up the building and they have from the very beginning There's a lower level which relates to the pedestrian and is is banded by the marquis There's an intermediate level which is relates to the residential at the second floor And then there's a curved cornice with a circular cylindrical Vertical shape that makes the corner of the building You look at if you analyze other buildings Yes, they're different scale and they're different use But there's a horizontal band with windows and the pedestrian level There's a corner element that's vertical and there's This one has a flagpole or a mast The changes that we made after the planning commission we we heard what they said We added more glass to the center. We added the the wood material in order to have the eclectic mix of materials and I'm going to just go through now After after after this slide, I'll show you different Examples of of what I saw Here's a drawing that we did a study that we did in 2008 in which we established This is how I presented it the the the lower level is pedestrian Yes, it had metal awnings because that was more in keeping with the design and the style of the time And it also has the middle section which has the apartment windows and in this case one balcony and then a circular element I preserved some of those things one thing that has changed is that because there's no parking under the building anymore And there are more units The building has become more vertical and it's not as it's not as wide as as this example The the the the awnings and the horizontal marquise along Soquel are at average between 9 and 11 feet The band on my building is 11 feet The top of the windows of the vault is at 11 feet The the fenestration on my building is is approximately 11 feet underneath that band The curvature and some of the motifs of the architecture I have there. Yes, they were intuitive and I can see where someone might not like that But I copied what I saw. I said, oh, there's corrugated siding There's corrugated siding in most of the signage on that street Charlie Hong Kong uses corrugated siding as the backing for their lettering Bay photo uses they have stucco. These are all materials that I didn't invent and the reason that I wanted to use Because it bends beautiful It's seamless so I can have a seamless finish Just to speak in the mic because I can't get you on the court corrugated material is Very suitable for being bent And I have also introduced other materials like it that are transparent perforated corrugated metal So I have this vocabulary of materials which I think work quite well with Um and in keeping I'll just go through quickly. This is a residential side of the building Here's the storefront with the glass in relationship to existing the side entrance The the reason the the windows are small on that side is because it's the east and that's the that's the efficiency apartment And and there's furniture against that wall if we didn't have to have the outdoor space I could have a bay window there So it's a design limitation In closing Here's yeah, yeah, we have to keep it at the time periods But but if you have I mean obviously we we have all the application materials If there's if you want to just wrap it up with a sentence. That's that's fine, but Okay, uh wrap it up With a yeah So here's the existing condition. Yeah, just yeah, we're proposing a uh a mixed use building Yeah, that's okay with apartments. Hey, that's it. I gotta I gotta call it there. Thank you though. Thank you. Okay um Okay, so at this point in the process we are um at the public comment period so Members of the public will have two minutes to speak on this particular project and the uh the um proposed appeal of the planning commission's decision How many of you would like to speak to this item if you could raise your hand and get someone let's get a count It's around six or seven, but people are moving and then putting their hands down Okay, so looks like everybody looks like more than that so looks like 12 So we have two minutes each to speak on this item if um First speaker if you want to step up you'll have two minutes to speak on the side of me I have two minutes public comment Thank you. Thank you. My name is Mara Kelsey I live on Cayuga and walk to all of the east side businesses uh often I uh am speaking because I Am happy to see a building But I do not feel the design is compatible with the east side You've heard a lot about that and Particularly since I walked from Cayuga The Cayuga side is just this mass with these itty bitty windows and Particularly unappealing um I looked at the uh Listen to the comments from the planning commission and uh commissioners fellman Had a number of objections He said there's not one drawing that shows context There is not a site plan that shows buildings next to it across the street There is no rendering that shows those Then he goes on i'm skipping here It's also frustrating as a commissioner to receive drawings like this And to analyze the building at this scale and make comments that are forthcoming And can address the real issues here I don't know if this is a future meeting but we need to set some criteria for showing Site context site sections so forth Especially at the level of a special use permit It would go a long way to having people understand how this building actually sits on the street With such renderings i'm struggling with the massive of the two street elevations. It's just awkward He also comments on the corrugated lining So I would like to just Conclude that I would really appreciate it if you would deny this As it stands take it back. Thank you. Thank you a next speaker. Please. We have two minutes My name is Mary Ann Franks. I've been here a long time. Um, we were able to We were able to listening to recordings of the planning commission meeting approving this project And noted that commissioners had concerns about the design and even the architect of the project had questions and was willing to make changes During the planning commission meeting design questions from the planning commissioners were answered by the architect Dennis Diego With his and john swift's vision and reasoning of course But mr. Diego also included in his statements his willingness to take suggestions and make changes to the design It was surprising that the commissioners did not pursue his offers to make changes. That's the need to appeal to the council Following are some of the comments by mr. Diego in response to the commissioners questioning design elements I think there are ways to improve the building. I would like the opportunity to do that How can I break it up in a different way? I'm open to suggestions There are many elements we tried. I'm open to suggestions I think there are ways to improve the building and I think I would like to have an opportunity to do that But we only have one opportunity to come forward. So that is what we're trying to do tonight And a final telling comment by the architect part of it is we are trying to keep the building from being too expensive So john has tasked me to be very careful about using so i'm practicing restraint by using the small windows The unfinished sentence alluded to keeping expenses down and not using costlier materials such as a more appropriate size windows on the kayuga side So our question is um, it seemed There were some changes made probably because of the out Outflow of other people's comments, but it seems like the commissioners did not spend a lot of time asking for design changes that they were willing to make And we would like to see those happen some of those more of those happen Thank you. Thank you Okay next speaker, please Hi, my name is jameely. I'm a renter in seabright and i'm also a local architect in town Not all of the neighbors in the in the neighborhood are disappointed in the design I for one appreciate its nod to the past its relation to the neighboring buildings and its contribution to a newer more contemporary santa cruise style their response To planning comments of adding planters and down lighting even further enhance the pedestrian experience I would be thrilled to see this building become a part of the urban fabric of my neighborhood It is unfortunate that our local system is set up to allow these kinds of discussions and criticisms so late in this process It seems like the appealing group is using the lack of a design review board to their advantage to attempt to block a project That would create some much needed housing in our community In addition this project will transform an empty dirt lot into a building that contributes to a thriving walkable commercial district Thank you for your consideration in denying this appeal. Thank you next speaker, please i'm dean lundholm Now we have a process for producing buildings And this process was followed in this case. It meets all of the city requirements There are just some people Who don't like it But you know we have a need for housing And if we don't provide For beautiful buildings for buildings that provide for people The state may welcome and do it for us So I urge all of you all of us to Improve this process. It's not working very well now Thank you. Thank you Next speaker, please Mayor council members jillian greenside Well part of the process is the ability to appeal decisions by Boards and commissions. So I think the process is working well I hope you will uphold this appeal and many good points have been made I won't go into them with a short time period. I would like to though address the issue of perspective I found my but it seems to me that in our We're going to have a lot of new buildings in santa cruz And I think it the planning department should take very seriously a requirement That developers architects provide the public with more accurate Renditions of what is being proposed And that was of concern to the planning commission and I would second that I've been following developments for 42 years and I guess we've gone from the seagull view or the birds eye view Where a five story building looks very squat But we're not birds and the latest one is to take a perspective either by putting People in front of the buildings. So a five foot five person Looks about half the size of the building in the background And we saw that in the the slide show all of that affects our eye when I saw the The applicant showing his slides They all have the vault in the foreground with his building in the background And as I watched it, I found my emotional response was who doesn't look that bad That's because of perspective. So the only legitimate perspective Even if it is to have both buildings side by side So you can see the height and every single slide that was shown distorted that view So I'd urge you to consider that as you consider and I hope you will uphold the appeal. Thank you. Thank you next speaker, please Hello there. My name is Craig Rall. I'm a 25 year resident of the east side of santa cruz and I just want to speak in adamant support of the design And the eclectic nature of the east side I think the the app the appellants actually their Demonstration of the photographs were the best defense of the design. It's a it fits in it It works well. It's new and I I also Here to speak on behalf of the people who are not homeowners who are going to live in these rental units And who are not here tonight because they don't have a place to live that they can afford to live in And so anyway, I would urge you to deny the appeal. Thank you very much. Oh, and I just want to say one other thing is dentists Designed that building from the inside out So each of these units have the south facing balconies or at least a majority of them have that south facing balcony And he did take into consideration the people that are going to live here more so than The complaints about the the design etc. So anyway, um, I'm in all Support, thank you. Thank you next speaker, please My name is dr. Lindsay johnson. Um, I own the kayuga vault I purchased it in 2009. I put $300,000 worth of historic renovation into it I tried very hard to really make it a beautiful historic building I have a blue plaque now from the city The historic commission told me it was their favorite project. They'd had at that up to that time And I use local artists to do like the grill work in the front is lmno arts Scott and christie thomas who did some of the stuff around here as well and ann tirman did the mural and I have to say um, I have had not been approached at all and my opinion probably doesn't really matter that much but And you know, I'm not excited of course about cramming that many people into an already overcrowded space But I also just think the building is really unattractive and doesn't seem to fit in with the Quaintness of the east side And I feel like Santa Cruz is really struggling to hold on to things that are original and not have big chain stores and stuff come in so Anyway, um, I just wish that uh, a little more effort could be made into the Exterior design of the building. Um, so I support the appeal is that right? However, however that however that works out. Okay. Thank you next speaker. Please My name is mark ligand. I'm a resident and business owner East side of Santa Cruz on Doyle our office is directly across street from the proposed development Um It seems to me that all due diligence has been done the process seems to be working Not only the design of the developer and also opposition. I think it's time to make this decision Um, I believe the church it's been almost 18 years I've been looking at that empty lot across the street. Is that the right? Is that the right years? Something like that 18 years Uh, it really is time. Uh, we can debate aesthetics We can debate how other people should spend their money and their investments forever and we'll never get anything done Maybe we should just plant a garden in the lot. I don't know jung Probably wouldn't agree that but, uh, seriously, I um, I think we should move on with the project and I uh, I think you should uh Release the thank you. Thank you next speaker. Please Good afternoon. My name is fran get it. Oh, I am a resident of this neighborhood And I want to thank you for the opportunity to hear from all sides. I'll be at a little late in the process My concern. I want you to know that I am in favor of the project in theory I am very my prime concern is In this community is quality affordable High density housing we have a housing crisis here But in the but in this particular project and I am in the neighborhood and I was glad to see a mixed use project I was more hoping for a little more something that was Conducive to local residents being able to contribute to the local economy and something more of a retail or eatery Something that we could enjoy walking to I walk this Area almost every day. It's a great piece of stretch of so Cal all the way from Little beyond Morrissey all the way to Brands of past brands of 40 and I patronize most of those businesses restaurants retail and Entertainment venues. So, uh, I wish there was more affordable units. I wish that State bonus would even Apply more to more affordable units But the design in question for me is it does not fit our character. It's a character issue I was not I'm in favor of the building behind it. It fits into the community beautiful in color and foliage And it's just as high. Yes So I'm glad to Support a design review as mentioned before And the only thing I want to add then is Whoever approved that uh, non-functional felix and mole at the top for height for height's sake Maybe we should ask who thought that was beautiful. Anyway a flagpole would be nice. Thank you. Thank you friend next speaker, please Hi, I'm lynn colvin. Thank you very much for having the opportunity to be here I lived around the corner on pennsylvania avenue and I've lived there for a long time I really think we need affordable housing I think we need more housing. So I Although i'm not crazy about the height of that building. I support that my big concern is parking Um, I don't know how many of you live on the east side and my street is just Jammed with cars and we're around the corner. So My concern is you've got 12 units. You've got what 14 parking spaces or 15. I don't remember but honestly There's going to be a lot more cars on the street and where are they going to go? Because people all have cars. So that's my big concern with this project. I wish there was more affordable housing in it But thank you Next speaker, please Hi, my name is lance sprague. I live across the street at on kayuga street. Um, it's a very clever design. It fits. Um, It makes 15, I mean, uh, 12 really nice units Excuse me, you could pause the time. Oh, sorry if you want to just speak into the microphone. Thank you I think it's a very clever design. I think it works well with the neighborhood I've lived there for 23 years and for about 20 of those years. It's been a dirt lot I'm hoping that you will um, reject the appeal. Thank you Next speaker, please Hi, my name is tim gordon. I live in sea bright and I I am in favor of this project Um, think about architecture is that it's an interpretation And if everyone here had their interpretation shown on that screen, I think that we would have a different interpretation for every person So to say that this project shouldn't be passed because of someone's interpretation of how they Aesthetic should be Is not a good reason Um, there's a whole team tasked with the approval of designs and of this process and it's made it to this point So to stop it here is to say that that team didn't do their job And I don't think that's the right way to to get projects to deal with projects Um, last thing is that this provides housing so If you're to push this project off now, we all know how long it's going to take to get it back The owner has put so much time and money into this to provide housing for people that need it and to To push it off is to tell people that Their housing isn't important So I would I am a in favor of this project and denying the appeal Thank you next speaker, please I'm speaking for rich samsle. Who was I'm I'm speaking for rich samsle. Who's an appellant? Who is an appellant? Okay. Who is an appellant? Yes, um, wait, um, we you could speak on your behalf of yourself Okay, yeah, I'm gonna read this All right. Well All right, um, I know that rich samsle um Did the photograph that's been called inaccurate of the two buildings side by side the vault and the the um The proposed design And he wanted to rebut that inaccuracy and explain how he put it together So you can make whatever statement you like, but it's gonna be your statement. Okay. Can you use the microphone, please? All right You can pull it down From what I know that this was not in an in an inaccurate rendering and that um he and that um actual what was used um was uh actual the actual dimensions provided by the um Architect, but I I really can't speak to that myself. I I can't freeform speak about it. So what I'll say is that um Please support the appeal the design does not work For this area could definitely be improved upon It's okay to me to have a contemporary building That's fine, but at least make it interesting make it Welcoming make it warm not something that looks like it belongs off Highway 101 or 880 Thank you next speaker, please Well, my name is mary nelson. I live on kayuga street. I live cat a corner from the proposed development I am absolutely in favor of this building I want to say too that mr. Swift was very open with the neighbors during many months of Planning and design he held neighborhood meetings. He invited us to see and comment on his design It felt like an incredibly open process to me Um, I think this is going to be a great addition to the neighborhood Um, as others have said we've been living with an empty lot On that corner for a very long time. Um, it would be great to see this. Um, this go forward So, um, I'm absolutely in support of this project Thank you next speaker, please Hi, jane meal longtime residents of the east side and The question is not that there should be a building or not It is a question of how does a new neighborhood building fit to the neighbors So in consideration of that and also having seen, uh, the architect slides and presentation As well as the other pictures I think it is time that we actually get a true sized model That shows what it looks like In proportion to the rest of the buildings so that we all have a better idea right now We're all guessing and I just want to say that the Uh, you know the sign the corrugated signs that you find on the soquel avenue and then put a whole Front of it corrugated on the wall and say it reflects the neighborhood architecture I think that is really a long stretch So softening the building Having a model that we all can look at and know You know what it is would be really beneficial. Thank you very much. Thank you Jane. Thanks. Are there any members of the public that wish to speak to that item this item? Ma'am, are you waiting to speak? Oh, you're waiting for public comment. Okay. Thank you. All right Are there any other members of the public that wishes to speak on this item? I remember 23 Can see none This is an opportunity where we bring it back to the council for deliberation and action And I know there are probably some additional questions Oh, I'm sorry. I skip right over that the appellant has an opportunity The appellant has an opportunity five minutes to rebut my apologies Pardon wait one moment To rebut not add any new information. Yeah, just to clarify This is to rebut not to add new information But to rebut what you've heard in terms of evidence that was presented right So first of all just to clarify Um Most of us who appealed live within Two blocks to nine tenths of a block. So there was this point that Was made to all the business owners that we were out of the area And somehow we didn't shouldn't have an interest in this And we certainly do most of us have lived here for 20 30 40 years When we went to the planning commission, we had no intention of doing anything with this project Until we saw and heard the deliberation and realized The process was still unfinished There were many great comments made There was no at that point it was approved There was no commitment on the part of the architect or the developer to make any changes It wasn't until we actually made the appeal that there was this well We need to do something and so we you know, there was then The attempt to make some changes to the project Um The corrugated metal was called out by multiple people on the commission It goes 40 feet. It also is included on the horizontal mat And it actually accentuates the height in the bulk of the building If you look on soquel, there's no what they call granulations or setbacks Including on the upper floors or insets or there's no inviting element The entrance itself is not inviting and many people thought when we showed it to people along soquel that it was a theater They really didn't know what it was The parking most people mentioned were quite fearful about and There's he mentioned it was 10 percent, but it's actually 30 percent I don't know of any project that I've witnessed that has actually gotten a 30 percent reduction So I just thought I'd point that out and it's in an area where there already is a parking problem And in fact the assistant director of public works, which somebody like Rochelle would appreciate because many people Complain about public works and yet we Were really happily surprised when he actually defended The neighborhood and the impacts and said, you know, you can't take any more parking away So we did really appreciate that the design is Yes modern, but the earlier design if you look at it had very large windows and there were ribbon like And there were many Architectural elements that actually were more in keeping with the area So it did evolve in a way and it devolved if you will Which is unfortunate and part of that probably was expense But many people spoke out about the earlier version of this project and said there were problems In fact, it was a a thread on next door where people were complaining. It was quite ugly And you know, so There was a lot of feedback Indicating that there could be a potential problem And I would say to any developer to pay attention to that because you know, you're basically inviting appeal like this Ultimately the process for these kind of projects is broken This is a very large info project And if you shot At something and expect to get a bullseye every time it's just not going to happen Design is an iterative creative process. There's a lot of characteristics that have to be taken into account simultaneously And there is definitely a need for a design review board. These are a review board of your peers It's not necessarily a broad base of peer people and construction. It's about design and that's what we're talking about today The special use permits even though he said there's no variation in height He actually cleverly puts it into the special use permit The horizontal mat is about three to six feet the mast on it. We actually had no indication what the height was So it could be 10 feet. It could be 15 feet. I don't know There's no indication I'm going to actually turn this over to rich and let him have the final words because he does live within a short distance He worked at the vault and he's lived in the community for a long time to talk about the images. Thank you All right. Thanks for taking this appeal I've heard my thing called grossly distorted. So I wanted to say something My main concern is how the building design interacts with circle avenue in the neighborhood to this end I created an elevation drawing image Uh to sort of uh that shows the true height and width relationships between the buildings Any city planner will confirm the necessity of elevation views So I used john swith's elevation drawings exactly to the dimensions. I measured with a laser meter on circle avenue I didn't take the little c you know the roof off to show that it was Taken at 63 inches above ground and I feel the design of the main entry is out of place for circle avenue And wanted to show its true relationship to the other buildings on circle Uh the uh John swift has used his perspective illusion to create a couple images with 1024 is the more distant building It has helped in One of the placements of a bus from the from another photo because the shadows are different on that That blocks of you are the one-story building farther down soquel Seeing this building would have changed our perception of the height of 1024 Similarly, if we stand opposite 1024 soquel and take a picture toward the vault building his would look very large Thank you. Thank you Okay, that concludes the appellants rebuttal. Um at this point In the discussion we'll bring it back to the council for deliberation and action So council member matthews. I have a couple questions if I could There of the architect if you don't mind Looking at This one here I'll I'll just start saying overall I'm in favor of this project and we'll be prepared to support it to deny the appeal I do have a couple of questions that I want to ask you Looking at this the center portion the curved one is a darker gray Is that a different material or is that just where there's a different angle? I'm just trying to hold on one moment I was hearing some ear motions in the back that people couldn't hear that so I just want to make sure the mics everything's Get okay, so Yeah, so my question is is there a different material on that center vertical part that's Then repeated on the upper one. Am I reading it correctly? That's just what I'm trying to get at No, I'm not from you from your description. I'm not quite sure what you're This section is a different color gray. Is that a different material there? What that is is the is the it's a corrugated railing that's that's perforated so you see through it. It's transparent For this whole all of this stuff. No, that that is the is the is the vertical corrugated panel Oh, okay, and then this here is stucco. So it's different I'm just trying to under the band is uh is a is a Oh, I see this close-up gives me more of a sense of the materials. Okay There again, I was just trying to figure out how to read it Um I'll just make some quick comments in general I actually like the way that whole corner has been treated with the round element. That's a classic Way to treat a big signature corner um, I do Some people mentioned that you had said you had other ideas that you'd like to add to Um, you improve the design change the design I would just like to ask you what those are if they're things you want to add to this And then I'll also add the one area that I could see Could be improved is that kayuga facing facade with a few small windows. I wonder if You did a good job on this. So cal side. You have ideas of how to Give greater interest on that facade. I'd like to answer that. Yeah um part of what happened between the original design and now is uh Energy analysis was applied to the building And so on certain faces of the building I'm trying to economize on heat gain And other problems that in totality of the building will give you an efficient building Therefore the larger openings nobody wants to look at the south side where the large openings are Have an overhang and they face south. So they are beneficially heat gain in the winter And in the summer they're shaded On the east side those are two those those two units are efficiency units The stair the stairs are in right in that in that last segment where the windows are dropped so that when you're walking down the stairs You can actually look out the window in in the land If I make the windows the same as in the apartment Then I will be looking at a wall and the landing will be visible from the street So these are all like this is the inside of the building speaking to us The uh, the other thing that's happening is that those efficiency units Have a large opening and when I say efficiency, there are small apartments that faces south So I needed a wall that We can place furniture against and so it's the floor plan now if if the balcony wasn't required I could put A bay window there and then the bay window would match And so those are the the other thing I want to point out is that I did make additional changes Like for instance In all of the protected areas Is where the wood is so the ceilings in the in the balconies or wood The the sides of the balcony or wood and and and the reasoning there is that we'll be able to m