I recognize a member from Windsor to come. Thank you, Speaker. We all have to live by the rules, but sometimes I think it'd be okay if we bent the rules on compassionate grounds from time to time. Diane Costello was in hospice care in Windsor. She's been there for three weeks. She doesn't have much time left. She wants to see her parents before she dies. Her parents live in Michigan. They came to Windsor two days ago, but the rules say they must remain in quarantine for two weeks. The clock is ticking, Speaker. Time is running out. The family has reached out to the Prime Minister's office. They've been trying to convince public health officials to make an exception. Diane was diagnosed with cancer two years ago in March. Her doctors told her the treatment wasn't working anymore. Her time has come and she accepts that. We here in this chamber talk a lot about cutting red tape, the rules of the rules. But as Diane Costello puts it, her parents brought her into this world and more than anything, she wants to see them, hug them, and say goodbye before she has to leave this world. It's her dying wish. It may take a miracle, but in cases such as this, perhaps bending the rules and compassionate grounds just might be the right thing to do. I call on the federal government to do the right thing for Diane Costello and anyone else in a similar situation. Speaker, I don't know if you saw the national news last night. The feds granted an exemption to billionaire buddies of Donald Trump to come here, hold a staff meeting and not wear masks if they can make quarantine exemptions for buddies of Trump. It sure as hell can give Diane Costello the chance to hug her parents, shed a few tears before she passes away. Thank you very much. Member Statements, the member for Mrs. Saga Malton. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, imagine a 15-year-old child son of a Canadian citizen who had been living in Canada for over 10 years, trying to become financially independent, who has a job but cannot work legally. Or another 14-year-old girl who was sent to Canada by an adult relative to live with another relative in Canada supposedly to get a better education and a better life but who has actually been trafficked. Wonder what happened with these people, with these children. Thanks to the child, Welfare Immigration Centre of Excellence, Mr. Speaker, they both are safe. These are just some of the examples of over 900-plus referrals received by the centre in the last two years, launched in 2018, based in Mrs. Saga Malton. The Child Welfare Immigration Centre of Excellence is part of the PLCS, the first of its kind, to help all children in its societies across Ontario to address immigration issues. Just in short period of time, the centre has supported 23 Canadian children to return home safely from 13 countries, supported 83 children from 61 countries who came to Ontario unaccompanied and separated from their parents. I would like to thank our Associate Minister of Children and Women's Issue, Minister Jill Dunlop, for your tireless efforts in announcing an annual investment of 200,000 for this programme. This investment will ensure that these children have the support and the need for building a strong future in our province. Mr. Speaker, and to the CEO, Rav Bains and the dedicated staff at PLCS, I want to say a big thank you to you for making a difference in the lives of these children and making Mrs. Saga Malton your home. I wish you blessings and success in supporting our communities forever. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you. Member Statements, the Member for Thunder Bay, Atacoken. Thank you, Speaker. There is one area of our pandemic response that cannot be repeated in the second wave or any time in the future. That is the treatment and abuse of residents in long-term care and congregate care settings. Beside the stories that I heard back in the writing on Tuesday night, I had the privilege of hearing the stories of families from across the north on a call with the Ontario North Family Councils Network. Their experiences were truly heartbreaking, and for those of us who have been sounding the alarm, it confirmed our worst fears. Family members confirmed the physical neglect, lack of dental and foot care, devastating weight loss, dehydration and mental deterioration. They consistently praised the staff and again and again talked about how more staff were needed. People who love and care for them could not be there. Those who wanted to take their parents or family out of a home were threatened that no place would be there after the pandemic. We don't need directives that are inconsistently applied, but laws with mandated levels of care that provide the time to properly look after people. Family and caregivers are needed in our long-term care system, and some families need to be the voice for the voiceless. We must ensure people in long-term care and group homes have consistent, continuous and safe access to their essential caregivers. We know more now. We can do better. Thank you. Member Statements, the Member for Scarborough, Agent Cohen. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, a heartwarming number of our local businesses, organizations and individuals have voluntarily taken action to help respond to COVID-19 crisis. Individuals delivered groceries, hot meals and medicine to their neighbors. Businesses donated PPE to our local frontline workers and food to our local food banks. These donations during the last six months also demonstrated that Ontarians, regardless of their background, stand shoulder to shoulder to defeat the COVID-19 scourge. Heart Fail acts like this show how the spirit of Ontario can bring communities together at these difficult times. As a small token of my appreciation, I would like to extend my Heart Fail gratitude to CCGT, Canada Cognitive Chamber of Commerce, CCCO, Canada Confederation of Fujian Associations, CTCCO, CPAC, Fujian Communities Associations of Canada, Fuzhu Chengli Guild of Canada, New Immigrants Foundation for Special Needs, Canadian Chinese Conservative Association, Lufo United Association, Global Medic, North American Pan-Pacific Cultural, Economy and Trade Exchange Association, Artistry Club Academy, Unionville Academy, Invest Arc Global in Financial Group, Earthfine Foods, EnviroServe, Shearac Boulevard, Canada Immigration Service Network Inc., Gourmet City, Link Global Food Inc., GPC International Inc., Handsome International Trading Limited, Gwangdong Fongli Yuan, Biopharmaceutical Technology Company Limited, Nanchang Zengchang Medical Equipment Company, Sense of New Inc. Thank you very much, Mr. Member States, the Member for Kiwetnaw. Good morning, I'm rising today to speak again on treaties in this House. First Nations people across Ontario continue to honour our trees by sharing the territories, the waters and the natural resources. Our ancestors signed treaties so that our territories across Ontario could be shared peacefully between settlers and the Anshinaabe people. We're all meant to prosper. The Crown through Ontario has a role to play in this relationship. First Nations cannot be the only ones holding up their sight of the treaties. I want to be very clear, recent legislative changes such as Bill 97 do nothing to uphold the treaty relationship. My friends from Fort Albany made a statement in July on Bill 197 that I would like to share, they say. We have watched this with alarm. As our Muskeg homeland in Northern Ontario is one of the main targets of this government's economic agenda, particularly through the Ring of Fire. The Muskeg is the foundation of our identity and our culture. It is one of the most important and delicate peatland ecosystems in the world with a critical role in storing carbon that would otherwise accelerate climate change. Leaders across the North are clear, development in our territories will not happen with our free, prior informed consent. The land, the waters, and our way of life is too important. Miigwe. Thank you very much. Member Statements, the Member for Scarborough Guildwood. Thank you, Speaker. I'm proud to rise today to mark a very important celebration in my community of Scarborough Guildwood. This weekend, the Guildwood Tennis Club celebrated their 50th anniversary with a remarkable socially distanced gathering in the club's courts. At the celebration, I heard many wonderful stories and anecdotes about how the Tennis Club has touched so many lives across many generations. The club was founded originally as the Kiwainawood Tennis Club in the 1970s by Bill Shashow, who became the first president and his wife, Lois, who became the club's treasurer. They served on the club's executive for nearly 32 years. Club members shared stories of sometimes resentfully following the guidance of Tennis Pro Marina Pereira as children, only to grow up to appreciate her training and athletic success to prove it. Victor Krustev, a club member and one of Marina's former students, went on to win the Under 12, Under 14, Under 16, and Under 18 Canadian National Championships in singles as well as doubles and is now attending the University of California, Santa Barbara, on a Tennis scholarship. Speaker, I'd like to acknowledge the hard work of the club's president, Ron Hochstra. While recovering from a knee injury and knee replacement, in fact, he led the opening of the club along with President Dave Muir and Vice President Kathy Carson this summer. And Tennis Canada, in fact, trained their national team this summer in Scarborough as a result. Local clubs are instrumental to the success of Tennis Canada and strengthens community ties. Congratulations to the Guildwood Tennis Club. I wish you many more years of success. Thank you very much. Member Statements, the member for Mississauga Lakeshore. Thank you, Speaker. It's an honour to rise today to speak about a terrific investment our government is making in my riding of Mississauga Lakeshore. On July 30th, I was privileged to join the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing and our Peel Regional Chair, Nando Unica, to announce a joint federal provincial investment of $24 million to build 219 affordable homes at two sites in Mississauga Lakeshore. The first project, the Peel Housing Corporation and East Avenue site, will include 151 affordable housing units, including one, two and three bedroom apartments for families and seniors. Yesterday, I was proud to attend the launch of the second project by Indwell, which will include 68 affordable one bedroom apartments for people with disability programs to support them, including addiction services, life skill training. The ground floor will become the new home of the Compass Food Bank, which has been on the front lines of our response to COVID-19 crisis, and I look forward to working with them at their new location. Again, I'd like to thank everyone who has worked so hard on this project, including the Minister and his team, and all levels of governments. Volunteers, our local churches and the Port Credit BIA. I know these projects will be a great addition to Mississauga Lakeshore, and I look forward to seeing this come to life over the next several months. Thank you. Member Statements, the Member for Parkdale High Park. Thank you, Speaker. Like many Ontarians, the increased rate of COVID cases has me worried. This week marks six months since we first started experiencing the very real impact of COVID-19 in Ontario. Majority of the people across the province followed public health advice. Collectively, we made sacrifices to stop the spread of the virus and to flatten the curve. I want to recognise local public health units who rose to the challenge, worked around the clock to protect us and lead us through this public health crisis. We owe a lot to local public health leaders who had the courage to speak up and go above and beyond in the absence of provincial political leadership. In Toronto, we're lucky to have Dr Eileen de Villa and her team. Speaker, investing in public health means healthy communities. It means saving lives. Public health lowers healthcare costs by keeping people healthy and safe and out of the hospital. However, Premier Ford's damaging cuts to public health weakened the system and left us far less prepared to respond to the pandemic. I urge Premier Ford to listen to local public health units who know what's best for the communities they serve, to reverse the cuts made and to abandon all plans to merge local public health units. It was their excellent work at the local level that helped us avoid the worst-case scenario in the first wave. We need to strengthen local public health units immediately as we prepare for the second wave and beyond. Thank you. Thank you, Member Statements. The Member for Atopico Lake Shore. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Last Tuesday morning, the community of South Atopico was shaken by a heinous act of violence. 80 gunshots were fired and one man was hospitalized with serious injuries in a gang-related shooting which produced so many gun casings that the police ran out of evidence tags. When I visited the site of the shooting to speak with business owners and the local BIA, I was shocked to see a daycare right across the street. This is not an isolated incident. Unfortunately, Ontario is facing a real growing problem with guns and gang violence. Firearm-related deaths are at a record high levels and other types of fire-related violence are also on the rise. More troubling is 80% of guns being used in crimes are obtained by illegal means, including coming from across the border. When these guns get in the hands of gangs, violence is almost certain to follow. The police are working hard to do their job. But we need to see the federal government introduce tougher penalties, including mandatory minimum sentences for gun traffickers and those people in possession of illegal firearms. As the parliamentary assistant to this list general, I am proud of our government's work alongside our local partners to launch our multi-gear guns, gangs and violence reduction strategy, which takes a comprehensive approach to public safety, addressing prevention, intervention and enforcement. Illegal possession and use of handguns and assault weapons is a serious concern for all of us. Let's work together to reduce guns and gang violence in Ontario. We must keep all of our communities safe. Thank you. Thank you. Member Statements, Member for Don Valley North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The global pandemic has brought and described challenges to all business. In the face of uncertainty, our governments took actions swiftly to listen and address those issues and concerns. I was honored to host an economic reopening roundtable with Premier Ford and Associate Minister of Small Business and Red Table Reduction Minister's career. There were over 100 small business owners and industry leaders joined our meeting. Many important issues were discussed. We have the opportunity to learn and note the various challenges business in our community encounters. Our government has been focusing on unleashing the power of businesses by reducing rate tap all along. At this time, at this difficult time, we were committed even more in supporting businesses through the Ontario Action Plan and helping business digitalize and modernize. Business owners were so grateful that their voice has been heard. I would like to thank Premier and the Minister for once again for attending the consultation and engaging in the fruitful discussion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Okay, that concludes our member's statements for this morning.


Good evening. My name is Dave Ganon. I'm from the UK. I'm the Associate Head of the Business School and I deal mainly with the management side of business, so all the management programs come under my purview. So why management? What does management give you? Well, management is one of those wonderful degrees which equips you to do many, many things in your future. Now, for many people at this point in their lives, they're still not sure what it is they want to focus on. They're not sure where their passions lie or their interests lie. And that's what our management program, in a sense, is designed to do. It's designed to allow students to find out what interests them, what are their passions, what is it that they want to do with their lives in the future. So the way that the programs are designed in both the Bachelors and the Masters is to give exposure to many, many areas which concern management. So we might start off with the introductions of marketing or HR. We may look at areas like financial accounting or management accounting. We then might move on to looking at issues around management such as change and leading change. We may go on to digital marketing and then we look at issues in the contemporary environment. What's the challenges that managers face today? So in our programs, whether you're Bachelors or Masters, the idea is the same, to look at many, many different areas of management, not only to see, to learn about them, but to find out for you as an individual where your passions lie. And passion and interest in what you're doing is the key to your success. If you're only interested in something but you're not passionate about it, then it's going to be much harder to succeed. And that's what we encourage all of our students is to find areas of business and find areas that they want to pursue in their future. Now, because we look at so many areas from a management perspective, what it does, I feel, is give our graduates a lot of confidence in themselves and their abilities to go off into the working world and be successful. Now this can be simply translating very easily from the university setting into the working environment. But also we have a great deal or a great number of young people who'd go on to become entrepreneurs who set up their own businesses. We have people who set up web-based businesses. We have people who set up bricks and mortar businesses here in Prague, the Czech Republic and elsewhere. And all of them are very, very successful. Now, one of the things I ask them, because I always like to chat with our former students, is, well, why did you do this? What gave you the impetus to do it? And they said, well, one of the things that I got from the Prague College was the confidence. Confidence to actually go and pursue my dream. I saw something that I really wanted to do and I wasn't afraid to do it. I felt that the knowledge that I'd gained from my classes, from the work that I'd done, from discussions and chats with my lecturers, from the whole experience that I had at Prague College, gave me the confidence to go off and do something and something I'm very, very happy with. Now, I feel that this comes down to the way that we approach education here in the School of Business. We believe, in a sense, in a dialogue, a dialogue between the students and each other, dialogue between the students and the lecturer. So unlike many universities, we don't take strictly lecture-based approach. Our classes are limited in science because we want a dialogue going on between lecturers, between the students, throughout their studies and having too many people doesn't allow you to do that, obviously. But at the same time, the lessons are based around interactions, doing activities, looking at contemporary business situations, finding solutions to problems. Now, of course, like any university, you're going to have to do assessments and you're going to have to do projects and so on. But unlike other universities, we don't do a great deal of examinations. Our projects are based very much on the practical side. Of course, you're going to get a theoretical knowledge around the subjects. But then we focus very much on applying that knowledge to situations that you are going to face in the business world, whether it be a manager or be an entrepreneur in the future. And the idea behind it is that your education is going to have benefit for you, that it allows you to transition into whatever it is that you hope to achieve in the future very smoothly. And like those former students I mentioned, to give you the confidence to go and do that as well. At the same time, we also believe that we need to give people flexibility. We need to give them the ability to, as they discover their passions and interests, and that later in their studies, they get the opportunity to focus on things that they're interested in. So what we find within the Bachelor program, for example, is that as the program progresses, the students are given more and more flexibility to focus their projects or the work that they do on areas of interest to them. To give you one example, in semester four, all our students will take the class digital marketing and new technologies. Now the project that they work on throughout that semester is based on the individual's hobbies, interests, passions, the electorate doesn't say this is what you're going to focus on, the student gets to choose because that leads to better motivation. But at the same time allows them the ability to start developing ideas for the future, whether they want to be in business and they want to investigate or see how to market a business online, or perhaps they want to explore something like virtual management. And then when we get to the final year of the Bachelor's, of course, the dissertation, which has to be done, that is purely based on the student's own interest. The work that they do, they decide for themselves the electorate in that sense is simply a guide along the process. The outcome should be beneficial or helpful for that person's future. And it's the same as the master's level as well. When we do the dissertation on the master's level, again, there's no one telling you what to do. It's based on what you are passionate about what you are interested in, and what actually is going to benefit you in the future. In your first semester, I always suggest my students keep your assignments, don't delete them, don't throw them away, but keep them safe.  And you will see such a major difference. So if you don't believe that you've changed, developed, just look at those two assignments, and you'll see how far you've come within the three years of studying with us, there will be no comparison between the two. And in fact, when I do this exercise with many students, they're often quite ashamed of that first assignment that they submitted for me many years ago. But yeah, that's it. It's a journey of development. And here you have really had that opportunity to really change yourself to develop and be someone who the potential that you have and actually fulfil it.


This is TFNN, The Tiger, Financial News Network. Update. Good morning everyone, almost the last day of March trading day that is, excuse me, we're looking at the Dow on this Thursday the 30th of March, 10 o'clock Tiger Financial News Network Market Update, does up 124 at 32,844. There's started a leg C in the data getting close to the 200 period moving average. That should be resistance, just about 10, 15, 20 points away from here. Looking at the S&P, I was going to be very interesting, this is actually started a leg D, but it's finally nicely above, which have we've inside track repellent zone. That becomes a propellent zone making the 3960s in the S&P, very good support on the shorter term. Frequently charged is starting to improve because of this, the day is young, half an hour into the session, what are we talking about, we're talking about an initial spike to the upside, how it lost is going to be very important. Looking at the QQQ, the index 100, started a leg C to the upside, it's starting to break out into new territory. That's going to be very important at 315.70, up $3 right now, so far it's making the whole area of 302.99, very strong support. IWM has been lagging lately, today it's up $1.42 at 176.85, still in the lower ranges now. This is going to be very interesting because gold is not backing away, it's holding very steady. I'm going to draw this in here as a rectangle formation, and we're looking at it, making it very simple, the gold is down $1.50 in 1983, if gold starts to trade under 1950, we will see some kind of a consolidation. It could actually stay in this range for a little longer, why? Because look at the dollar, the dollar is just not showing much strength at all, in fact showing weakness, down 52 ticks at 102.14, and that really is helping at least the reflexive action of counterpoint move and gold going up with dollars going down, bonds, bonds at this particular point are still quite weak, they're down 4.30 seconds, 1.29, 2.30 seconds, so yields are actually going up a little bit, and crude oil, crude oil right now is about up 29.70, 24, stalling over here. I'll be back with a tiger tech, this is Alan, check out my opening call, David Newsletter, see you in a few moments.


Hey everyone, this is Gabrielle with Oxmerotic Group from here at Oxmer Toyota. I have Chuck Schumann here with me I guess. Chuck's gonna go over a couple things on the 2018. This is the Toyota Highlander It's the limited platinum. So Chuck if you could tell everybody a little bit about this vehicle that would be awesome Yeah, yeah, yeah So the limited platinum is the highest trim that you can get in the Highlander. Okay So the Highlander itself is a very smooth ride, very quiet ride This has all the safety features that you get in every trim of the Highlander So you get the Toyota Safety Sense P, which is pre-collision, pedestrian detection, automatic high beams, dynamic radar cruise control, lane departure alert All of that comes standard on this as it does in every trim Okay, but with the Highlander, the limited platinum, you get a lot of luxury features as well And so on this one, the first thing I want to show you, if you look over here by the steering wheel You've got some extra buttons right there on the dash And so with this you get a heating element underneath your windshield wipers So if it's parked under snow, it'll actually heat the windshield wipers themselves You've got a heated steering wheel, parking assist where it will beep if you get too close to something And then if you look inside, there's actually a panoramic sunroof on this Now these seats for the passenger and driver, they're heated and cooled And then, so luxury up front and then also for your passengers here in the back row This is the only one that has heated seats in the center The two captain's chairs there have heated seats as well And that can be controlled there in that center console as well as their air conditioning airflow All that in the back Awesome So a lot of really great luxury features there And then everything that's great about the Highlander, our competition doesn't have this The glass pops, so you can easily load stuff in and out here And it's got a power liftgate as well So this is popping up, so these have an all-weather mat in them And so you can fold that down flat, it's going to keep all your stuff clean and dry, easy to clean And then these seats back here, you can fit three people in the back as well So you can carry seven people or haul a bunch of stuff Just a great car, really, really, you know Awesome, yeah, I love it, thank you so much All right, if you guys have any questions on this vehicle, please feel free to let us know The best winner is<PHONE_NUMBER> You can also visit our website oxmortwayota.com I'll make sure to have a link to this vehicle in the comments below Thanks you guys for watching and we'll see you all soon Bye


Welcome to episode 7 of the Bitcoin Show. We're continuing our conversation right now with Kevin Day from Chicago, Illinois, who was the fortunate or unfortunate, depending on how you look at it, beneficiary of about $5 million worth of Bitcoin that he sort of accidentally bought at a penny apiece. And we're just continuing our conversation because we're getting into so many good things. By the way, one of the things that I wanted somebody brought up in the chat room just now is they're saying, tell people don't just copy their wallet.dat file that if you're talking about securely storing your Bitcoin on your own computer, we're going to do a how-to video. You don't want to just do this on any computer, especially not Windows because there are viruses in the wild that will actually look for your wallet file and steal it. So we're going to do a how-to video. So basically it's going to be how to download Ubuntu onto the ISO file and how to burn the disk, boot from the disk, and wipe out your entire computer's hard drive if you have to buy a brand new computer or take an old one or something, but use a fresh, virgin computer. And we're talking about if you have any kind of serious money, like more than a month's worth of income, then it's worth it. Dedicate a computer to this, install Ubuntu on it, install the Bitcoin client on it, and install an encryption program like TrueCrypt. And one of the things that they're saying is don't just copy the wallet.dat file. You have to actually close the Bitcoin client first. Make sure the Bitcoin client is closed, and then copy the wallet.dat file, otherwise you could get a broken backup is what I'm told. So Kevin, you were saying that the way you got this to go through is everybody, you're watching the market crash. So how long did it take to go from $17 to a penny? It was at least 20 minutes, and it was really agonizing 20 minutes, too, because you really couldn't do anything about the website while it was happening. I don't know how they really got this programmed, but it was, while a trade is still executing and it's still matching up buyers and sellers for one order, everything seems to be locked out and you can't do anything else. So it was a very slow, this is happening and no one can do anything while it's happening kind of deal. So it was at least 20 minutes, if not a little bit longer than that, of just going from $17 to a penny.  You benefited from the smart tax. So you bid 0.01, 01? Right. I bid 1 cent and 1 100th of a cent for the Bitcoins, because everybody else had five orders at exactly one penny. Nobody had one slightly above a penny. So I saw that was happening. Placed mine just the tiniest bit above the existing orders and just through dumb luck happened to get mine in and that executed, you know. Right, I mean, people talk about a stopgap or what do you call it, like some sort of an automated system that if the market, if the system sees the market crashing suddenly that it could put the brakes on, how would something like that work? Do you have any idea? Well, I know in current stock exchanges if the stock drops below a certain percentage during the day, trading's halted for a certain amount of time. And then if it continues to drop, it's halted again and that kind of thing. Just to give people a breather so that clear heads are making decisions, people aren't making panics. Which is what I think a lot of people were trying to do. I saw on IRC people screaming that they were trying to sell at $3 and it wasn't taking their bid. And I think they probably would have been glad afterwards that that wasn't happening. So whether the delays of accepting orders was an intentional stroke of genius or just a limitation of the system, I don't know. But I think that allowed some people at least to think about things before they were allowed to make a decision. And then what really I think gave me the most faith in the economy was how quickly it rebounded, it hit zero. I mean, the price was nothing. It rebounded to $12 in a matter of minutes. And there actually was a decent value of people going, there's no reason for the price to be this low. It really does have an intrinsic value of more than $10. Right, so yeah, I think that's a good idea. So as long as it's published clearly in advance that there's a break system that if the market falls more than some percent, I don't know what, 20% within a certain number of hours or minutes or something that just freezes all trading just to take a breather. I think that's a really smart idea. All the exchange sites might want to investigate that. One of the things that would make that difficult would be that when you're buying, say shares of Ford on the stock exchange right now, there's only one exchange that sells that. Here, we have multiple exchanges selling basically the same product. So if one of them were to halt trading and another one didn't, it may give people some advantages to be able to gain the system even further. We have to be one of those, all the big exchanges I think would really have to agree on doing the exchange. The rules, wow, yeah. It's sort of a centralized thing that I don't know if the Bitcoin community really is in favor of. Right, well, I think for the benefit of the entire Bitcoin community, it sounds, you know, as long as the rules are the same, I think that, and they're published that way, they're followed. If the rules are published, I would have no problem with it, you know. Yeah, I think it does make sense. What do you guys in the chat room think? And while I'm asking you that, I want to quickly say this episode of the Bitcoin show is brought to you by Ambivert Creative, AMB-I-V-E-R-T, ambivertcreative.com. We create, they create your corporate logo, identity, website, print, everything. They create your identity for you, for your business. And bitcoinbonus.com, all your online shopping that you're doing anyway, you get paid back with Bitcoins, it's brilliant. Check it out, bitcoinbonus.com. Also bluecanarynightlight.com, bluecanarynightlight.com, buy a blue canary nightlight with your Bitcoin. All of these merchants accept Bitcoin, of course. And tradehill.com, tradehill.com, of course. The new automated exchange site, 24 hours a day, making it super, super easy to get all your money in and out. Make sure you get 10% off your trades for life by using the referral code that is THR, I'm sorry, TH-R141. TH-R141, thanks to our sponsors for allowing us to be here today. Okay, so let's see, let's see what questions we have in the chat room if there are any coming up here. So to, I guess if you were, if Mark was sitting right here, what would you say to him? First, I'm really sorry this has happened, because I don't think anyone is coming out ahead from this. I don't think the hack got away with anywhere near as much as they were hoping to with anything. And I think this is going to really shake up the whole market for a long time. So if anything, I would want Mark to know that I want to help resolve this as quickly as possible and hope that he would believe that. What I would suggest him to do, I don't know. I definitely think they need to find a middle ground from what they're proposing and what I would like. I think they need to take some responsibility for what happened. And right now it seems like they're saying the only responsibility they have is to try to undo this. And I'm not sure that's really the best response, you know. I think that it sets so many dangerous precedents. Suppose I made a giant sale one day and the next day I decided it was a mistake. Can I now claim my account got hacked and ask him to undo it, you know? And has he really thought these things through?  Is he implying now by doing this that he's basically insuring every account that's held with him? You know, is that part of what we're paying our trade fees for? Because it looks like that's what he's doing with his account. You know, if he's actually trying to say he's going to ensure these losses, can we all rely on that? You know, those are the kind of questions I would like to get from him before trading reopens because if your reopen's trading with so much uncertainty, I can't imagine it going anywhere but far, far down. Right. Do you believe what their story that it was a financial auditor and that had read on the access to the database and all that?  That part sounds plausible but sloppy, you know. I think when you're dealing with financial instruments like this, you need to be a lot more careful. You need to treat this like, you know, one of the things in my day job I deal with is credit card processing and the amount of security we have to go through to be able to handle holding a credit card number for a microsecond. Far exceeds what it looks like a lot of these exchanges are doing and I think maybe some lessons to be learned there by looking at how they handle security in terms of merchants. That part of the story I think is completely plausible. What I question is some of the other elements of the story though of who is this person who won and how did he get Mark's pension so quickly? You know, one of the things that Mark was saying was that, you know, a police report had been filed within less than an hour of when all this went down and that he was involved in all this, you know, how did all these things happen if there wasn't some existing relationship between these two? If there wasn't an existing relationship, why isn't that being made open right now? You know, is this an investor, is this a friend, you know, I know those are kind of wild accusations but if he doesn't answer these questions, it leads to the more questions. Right. Someone is tweeting to me saying, someone's offering Trade Hill Bitcoin user password hashes now, I don't know if that's true, who knows. You get all kinds of crazy stories that are unverified but, you know, that's the internet. The advantage is that if people are doing what you say and using passwords of that magnitude, even if it's encrypted, it doesn't know good. Yeah, I mean it doesn't do the attack right good, you know. Right. If your password is, basically the only way that people can break encrypted passwords is just trying lots of passwords to see which one ends up with the same encryption as the one in the file they've obtained. So unless they happen to guess your 16 character random password, they're safe. So anybody who's following advice like you and what other people have been saying in these past couple of days, is safe even if the database has gotten out. Yeah, as long as it's long and unique and so on, strong. They're reminding us that in the new version of the Bitcoin client, the wallet file will be encrypted by default, which is a very good thing.  You can't really defend against that. So that's why if you have any significant amount of money here in Bitcoin, you really want to use a brand new Virgin computer to back it up. And like I say, we're going to be doing this training video, a full production tutorial where we do it partly screencast, partly looking over our shoulder, how you take an old machine that's dusty in your closet or brand new when you go out and buy and basically how you install a fresh clean version of Ubuntu Linux on it, install the Bitcoin client on it and some encryption software called TrueCrypt and create a your wallet.dat file, put it into the TrueCrypt volume, copy your address out of it and then close the whole thing, back up the encrypted version to, maybe four or five or half a dozen Virgin thumb drives that you bought, maybe even burn them to a CD.  And that way you have a Bitcoin address that is only accessible to spend. It's like a piggy bank, deposit only. You can take this Bitcoin address and basically use your mybitcoin.com or whatever you want to use as your coffee money, pocket change and whenever you want to put money in your savings account you just send it to that Bitcoin address and that's your secure Bitcoin address that is only available on those thumb drives and even if somebody gets the thumb drive which of course you hide in multiple different places and so on, if somebody gets a hold of one they still can't use it because it's encrypted with a strong secure password. So we're going to teach people how to do that and obviously with doing it this way you're sure there's not going to be any viruses and you're not going to connect to the internet for any other purpose than to get the Bitcoin client and the encryption software and nothing else and so on. So if you follow the instructions precisely you basically have a piggy bank deposit only address that you can send bitcoins to and those never have to be online but you can still check your balance anytime you want with the, what is it called, block explorer. So we're going to teach people how to do that. It'll probably be like a 20 minute video but it'll be worth it because this is what people need. They really, really need a way to secure their bitcoins themselves. Offline, secured, encrypted. If they back it up to the internet, to the cloud somewhere, this file, securely then they could actually just go anywhere without taking anything with them as long as they can get to the internet and they remember their password, their bitcoins will be safe. Would you agree with that strategy, Kevin? Definitely. And that's pretty much what I did something similar with, you know, and I had this trade gone through I would have basically done exactly what you had said there too. You know, had I actually withdrawn all this stuff I would have taken everything and probably plus the top of steps for sure but what you're talking about is exactly I think good behavior for anyone to do something like this.  Exactly. You know, I think if anything maybe the communities fail newcomers at expressing how important that is. So, you know, I think what you're doing here to educate people about this is really important because every time someone gets burned and loses money, that just makes it harder for us to convince people this is a real economy. Exactly. Exactly. Someone's posting in the B bit in the chat room that Trade Hill is back up now which is news, breaking news as we speak. They say, I'm trusting B bit, this is accurate. He is saying, it's scrolling, scrolling, hold on. Scrolled right off my screen. Anyway, Trade Hill is back up and they're saying that there have been a lot of hacking attempts to get in with obviously with Mt. Docs IDs and passwords and so on. So anybody that had a matching address they've kind of forced a password reset for security obviously. They're just taking precautionary measures to make sure everyone's safe and secure. Obviously, I think they're learning a lot from all this too. So, let's see, what is this? Enter this as an ideal Bitcoin. Ask Kevin if he thinks a rollback is antithesis to the ideal of Bitcoin. I think he goes against the spirit of it. Whether it was a correct assumption or not, I think a lot of people, myself included, assumed that the exchanges like this were operating under the same irreversible principles that Bitcoin themselves do. And if that's not the case, we need to document that better as a community. But I think there probably has to be a middle ground. I don't think it can be totally wild west and I don't think it can be totally regulated to the level of NASDAQ. But if it's a slippery slope, it really is, because everyone goes, well, this regulation would have prevented this problem. This regulation would have prevented this problem. If we keep doing it along that point, we're gonna have the same regulations as the NASDAQ. Yeah, exactly. That's the thing about, it reminds me of net neutrality. Everybody wants net neutrality. It's a wonderful thing and it's an ideal that it's all a level playing field. It's the way it's been and the way it should be and all that. But do we want the government to enforce it? That's a whole nother story. Because as soon as you start demanding that the government enforce it, you're actually demanding to give away your freedom to the government because they're gonna enforce it. They're gonna enforce all kinds of other stuff that they decide to throw in there. Right, and in this specific case too, I probably would feel more comfortable not having a market attempt to be the police in this and letting us go through the proper law enforcement channels to resolve this because I don't know that they're necessarily making decisions that are backed in law. And I'm not saying I'm trying to get away with something I shouldn't, but I also don't know if I feel comfortable with a kind of barely related third party to this deciding who's right or wrong and something like that. Yeah, because you pointed out, I think that one of the very few things that Mt. Knox does document on their site is that they will never be a party to a transaction, right? They're just matching buyers and sellers. And isn't it true that if they are taking it upon themselves to roll back or decide when to roll back as necessary and how far to roll back, they roll back one transaction too far or whatever, then aren't they a party to a transaction which is exactly the opposite of what they're promising? Right, and I've been getting a major amount of exchange education over the last couple days here. And one of the things I was told was there is a legal term called being a counter-party to a trade, which has specific meanings legally. And usually, say like a stock broker says they would become a counter-party to this trade, which means they're accepting some of the responsibility for if it goes wrong and they're sort of vouching for the authenticity of it and all this sort of thing here, where Mt. Goch specifically used the words, I don't even sure that's right, you are trading with other users of Mt. Goch. Mt. Goch does not act as a counter-party to any trade. And legally what that means is they're washing their hands of everything that happens and are just acting like a matchmaker. Some exchanges work where they're actually, the money goes through them and they handle every bit of it along the way. Some of them just work as being almost over the counter where here's a buyer, here's a seller, it's up to you guys to make things happen. And if that's what Mt. Goch was telling people they were doing, they're really overstepping their authority by performing a rollback. Right. And this gets into some legal things that I don't plan to understand because this is getting to some of the really in-depth market law that I'm not a lawyer. But the lawyers that have been talking to me said that they probably made a mistake in using those exact words. You know, where if this went through court that was well-educated in market law, them claiming we are not a counter-party to any trade means they did not have any authority to touch anything, that they told us that they did not have authority to touch something. And that alone right there is one of the reasons one of the lawyers who have been talking to me are telling me that this would be a surprisingly high chance of winning if I was going to go pursue this. Some people are suggesting that Mt. Rocks or any exchange sites should have insurance. What do you think about that? Well, I think what's almost happening right now is that they are implicitly saying they are insuring accounts. You know, here's an account got hacked and they're saying that they're going to do everything they can to undo this and probably make up the difference themselves. So whether they're offering it as a service or not in practice what they're doing in this case is offering insurance. And I would just like to sort of have that formalized about what they're doing. Is this a case of they're taking the money that all of us have been contributing to them to form a trade fees and bailing out a friend or are they making this an advertised feature that we all can rely on? It can't be neither of those though. Right, I mean this is actually reminiscent of some people have been into Bitcoin for a while. Remember the help Mt. Rocks froze my account with something like what was it, $45,000 or $60,000 in it or something like that and it turned out to be apparently someone had again hacked into someone's insecure password and hacked there with a brute force attack got into their Mt. Rocks account and then they were withdrawing $1,000 a day and I don't know if it was over three days or six days they got $3,000 or $6,000 out and they were able to track that through the Block Explorer and track those transactions and where they went and kind of forensically routed it back and they actually got a connection back to another Mt. Rocks account that had deposited some money and then shortly thereafter someone deposited some amount. I forget chat room you can help me but maybe like say $45,000 or something like that and at the time I think this was when Jed was still running Mt. Rocks and it was like right around the transition period as I recall and it was like this huge story blew up about how they froze my account and everyone panicked but it was because Mt. Rocks had kind of stepped in and in a sense they played police and said no this person is involved in this crime and they froze their funds and I don't actually know what happened after that if they actually did get some sort of authorities involved and in cases like this who are you gonna call? Somebody in Costa Rica or Japan or the US or who knows where? The person could have been in London or Russia. Right and this is one of the other reasons why I'm trying to say this is a very slippery slope that they're gonna claim that they're gonna keep doing this. If they're going to play police over this what happens if someone withdraws it to a country that has no extradition? What happens if they can't prevent it? Are they accepting liability for that now? And the other thing too is I think they're probably torn in the middle of this because they probably don't want to get involved in these sort of things because it's time consuming. There's risks of getting dragged into something that they don't want to be dragged into and it could very quickly become a mess for them but if they don't get involved in things like this I think they're probably very worried that they're gonna get some very unwanted legal attention. There's going to be the FBI coming to have tracks with them because someone complained that $5 million got stolen from them. And they don't want the arrow of accusations holding over everything. So I think they're trying to play the both sides a little bit. Right. Can you guys hear Kevin's audio as they're saying is a little bit low? Maybe bring it up a little bit when he's talking. So you were able, some people are joining us late. You were able to withdraw 600 Bitcoin, was it? I was able to withdraw 643 Bitcoins because at the time I placed the withdrawal the price was right at 63 cents because of some orders that were starting to slip back in. It was not a case of, hey, quick, let me cash out while I can. It honestly was a case of, I have no idea what's going on. There's a good chance the whole site's been hacked. If I can at least be the one holding up the hacker we stand a lot better chance of being able to fix any of this. Oh, we froze. Your audio and video froze. Wait for Skype to catch up here. While you're frozen. Oh, wait a minute, are you there? Can you hear us? Yep, I'm still here. Okay, your video froze, but that's okay. It'll come back up. And I'm sorry to interrupt because you froze anyway. But let me tell you this. Somebody's popping in the chat room telling me Citigroup hacker affected more customers at first thought Citibank and Citigroup was hacked recently too. It's not just Mt. Docks. This is happening in all kinds of financial institutions. We know about Sony and it's becoming famous. Hackers are getting more and more tricky. And Bitcoin is a fetus of an industry. But it's come of age. So it's really, really quickly come of age, obviously. People who had only pennies and dollars in it are now wealthy. Some people are very, very wealthy from it or whatever. There's a lot of money and a lot of capital in it. So we have to grow up. These institutions have to grow up and we're playing in the big leagues now. So they've got to secure it. And if Citibank is having trouble doing that, I guess that should make Mt. Docks feel better. They're not alone. Security is hard. One of my day jobs is handling very large websites that move a lot of money. And it's what keeps me up at night too. You can be perfect writing your code 99.99% of the time but if you've made that one little mistake that lets somebody in, the whole deal's off. And especially if they're dealing with unexpected growth that's making them have to spend all their time just making the site stay running because there's so many people flooding it and dealing with media interest and just handling their own growth, you don't have a lot of time to be going back and doing all those things that you said you were gonna do once it mattered. Right, exactly. It's now or never. Right. And I think that there are a lot of, it's like anything with technology, there are a lot of security experts who claim to be security experts but it's all relative. It's really a whole nother ball game, the league of these hackers that are coming out of Russia and who knows where China and all that. You just never know. It's probably just a cat and mouse game constantly trying to keep up with the latest ways to break in. And the public obviously isn't aware of the complexity of it. They're just clueless.  And so what do you think that this is gonna do to the reputation of Mt. Gox, this incident? I really think it's gonna come down to how much they're willing to spend to make the problem go away. If they are covering themselves first, which is what to some, this is myself included, what it looks like they're doing, it makes it really hard for us to think that they're looking after the future. So how they handle the next 24 hours, I think it's gonna dramatically change how the future of their business works. Who decides it's gonna take a loss on this is really gonna dictate everything to them. It's adding uncertainty and the market never likes uncertainty. Is there a certain dollar amount or big quit amount that Mt. Gox could offer to you for your inconvenience that you would be happy with? I'm obviously trying not to look at it that way. It's one of those, I'm more concerned with the moral aspect of it than the financial as much as my wife would kill me for saying that. I don't know. It's one of those, I've tried to weigh the pros and cons of anything I possibly do. And it's really hard to cope with a scenario that does not ruin things for everybody. I was sort of half fantasizing when I was like, suppose I did get at least $5 million worth of Bitcoins, I could never spend that. If I tried to sell all that in any reasonable amount of time, I'd crash the market just again. So it really- But you can hold on to it for a year or two and everything would be changed by then. Right, let me show you a lot of that. It's hard to say really. The whole economy is very fragile in some places and how one person can have such a dramatic effect over the entire market is frightening to some people. How they're going to deal with this is really going to be very interesting. If their response is to take any kind of responsibility for this and say, we will cover X, Y and Z, the rest we just simply cannot afford to, I think people would have a tough time saying they're still the bad guys in this. Where at the total opposite end of the spectrum, suppose this does come out one day that whoever was storing $500,000 as an employee of the company or whatever, there's probably a very good reason like whoever owns this account has not stepped forward yet. Suppose it is something potentially embarrassing to them and they made no effort to try to appease every party involved, they did not go after the auditor to try to get some kind of insurance payout for this, whatever, it becomes very much an us versus them market that. They're definitely not on the side of the community anymore. Right. Do you think that there's a certain amount of responsibility that lies on the customer, on the Mt. Gox customer, all of the customers, all of us who are putting all of our eggs in one basket where 90% of all the trades are having a one exchange. I mean, I know there weren't options really. There were no other choices and so recently, but everybody relied on Mt. Gox and maybe too much so and Mt. Gox wasn't prepared to handle the volume and the security and the growth. And I mean, people said in the forum, I was reading that you can look at, obviously everyone now can look at the user list, some 60, some thousand names and so on and that it doubled in the last few weeks or something like that. The growth has been so, so fast. It might have overwhelmed them as far as the growth, the number of transactions, the volume, all that. I mean, the only thing people notice is, look at the volume, look at how much money they're making. That's all they know. It's like, wow, they're making so much money, they should be able to handle this. Yeah, that's easy to say, if you've got all the money to begin with, but they didn't have that money. That just suddenly happened and boom, one guy now build infrastructure that's gonna rival Citibank. No, and that's a really good point. I don't think just because they've made a small fortune off this that they are suddenly, that alone makes them responsible for what happened, which I know some people are saying is that, they've made 1.2% basically off of every trade going through, that alone has made them very wealthy. But they're probably also in the same situation where they cannot sell large amounts of it without substantially affecting the market. So they would probably be in the same situation. But at the same time, the fact that they are able to make things right at least gives them some more options than the one they're presenting right now. If it were really a case of this were a completely nonprofit, we charge no fee, but it's all just us doing our best effort kind of deal like the way a lot of the mining pools work. I don't think anyone would be going, hey, you're responsible for what happened. You have to do this. The fact that they have been making this commercial service and we've all, everyone who's used my product has paid into their infrastructure for this system, I think does make it harder for them to claim they have no responsibility. You know, we're customers now not just the community that's all benefiting off of each other.  Right. What do you think this is gonna do to the price of Bitcoin in the immediate future, like now, today, tomorrow, this week, and in the long term, six months from now? I think the uncertainty alone of all of this, even for getting anything I've mentioned in this, you know, just the uncertainty of what's happened is probably going to drive prices down for a while just because, you know, no investor likes the uncertainty. They try to, I think we all look at what the worst case could be, what the best case could be and try to aim in the middle. And every time the worst case gets further and further down, our average goes with that. And people price that into to what they're willing to spend, so I think, you know, I don't think this is gonna destroy the economy, especially if everybody involved in this works together. You know, I think everybody involved here there also has a chance to destroy the economy if they wanted to, you know, if Mt. Rocks were to run off with everyone's money, that would be disastrous, you know. Right. If the legitimate owner of this money decided, you know what, I like what happened when I did that. I'm gonna do that again. That would be another humongous blow to the economy, you know. I think if I lawyer it up, got injunctions placed and cast this huge doubt over if people could ever withdraw their money from Mt. Rocks or not, that would be the end of them as well. And so I think as long as we're all playing together going, you know, this is a really bizarre situation, let's get past it. I don't think there's gonna be a long-term effect by this. I think we're gonna look back at this and go, oh my God, what just happened, you know. But it's not going to be the defining moment of Bitcoin. Right. As far as we all work together. Exactly. Is that your message that you want to work together for the betterment of Bitcoin and get past this? Definitely. You know, I mean, I've been hope people seeing the actions. I mean, I know you're taking my word for this, but that the actions I have placed so far kind of show that I'm not after a quick buck for this. You know, I could have strewn over the whole economy and didn't. You know, I could have had all these in my wallet right now and Mark would be coming to me asking for them back. You know. Right.  Let me repeat that. I'm sorry to interrupt. Let me repeat that. What Kevin is saying is that he had the ability to withdraw these Bitcoin, but he didn't. You know, he could have actually withdrawn the Bitcoin, but he didn't do it. He actually thought if he did that would, you know, that we could shed suspicion that he was actually involved in this thing because he saw the thing happening. He saw the whole thing happening.  I mean, that's the whole point of being there is to buy Bitcoin. So he did it. And let me ask you this. Did you realize that, did you think this was a natural market crash? Or did you think that, did you have a suspicion that this was a fraudulent thing? Well, my first reaction to this actually was that, you know, there had been talk of people who own large botnets, you know, basically tens of thousands of computers that they have infected with some virus. There's been rumors that somebody has been infecting, you know, 50,000 computers and made them all mine Bitcoins without their owner's knowledge. And I had always sort of been just waiting for the moment that whoever did that tried to cash out because I think they're going to have, they're really only going to have one chance of doing that. That was what I originally thought was happening was this was someone just trying to cash out a lot of ill-gotten gains. Just dumping it fast, yeah.   You know, so then I was really trying to think of what someone would gain from making things hit a penny. And when I hit the thousand dollar limit, that is instantly what I realized that they were doing as well, was they probably were trying to cash out by making things crash. And that was why I did not want to do the same thing because how would that be distinguishable from an attacker was a tempting to account for. Exactly, then you really look like the attacker, the hacker. So, all right, I forgot my question now. But the point I wanted to make is that, you know, Kevin contacted me, you know, in the chat last night, right after the show aired with the guys from Mt. Gox and said, look, here's the rest of the story. It's not being fully disclosed. It made it look like the hacker actually sold the bitcoins to himself and another accountant and actually what happened is he was the one who purchased it, you know, sort of randomly and accidentally, of course. He wasn't involved in the hacking at all. He could have withdrawn the money from Mt. Gox right in the spot. He could have done it. He could have gotten away with it. And even though he wasn't involved in the hacking and he did a legitimate trade, he would have had the money on his computer and his wallet. And then Mt. Gox would be coming after him and saying, please, please, please give us our five million dollars worth of Bitcoin back. And then this whole, it'd be a very different story. It actually probably would be the end of Mt. Gox, I don't know, unless they want to go to a reserve bank, you know, a fractional reserve system and it'd be in debt to their own system for that much. But that would have changed the whole story. It probably would have shed a lot of doubt on you, Kevin, that you were, you know, people would jump to conclusions. You know that. That's why you're smart to not do that because people would immediately say, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's too suspicious. This is no coincidence. He's followed the money and all that common sense, quote, unquote, it would, you know, at least circumstantially, it would look really bad for you. But obviously you didn't do that. Obviously you're innocent. You wouldn't be coming forward and talking on television about this if you were the hacker. What would the point of that be? So. One of the other points I was really hoping to make by coming out of public from this was that right or wrong, and I'm not claiming any malicious intent whatsoever, is that the Mount Docs people seem to be implying that the whole reason behind this rollback they want to do is that the hacker is the one who bought all these coins and they have to undo that, otherwise he's gonna benefit. And I see people repeating that line as well. And I'm not saying I'm more deserving than somebody else's, just that if we're gonna have this discussion, let's at least have the facts correct before anyone is in support or against support of doing something. And if, to be honest, the way that it's phrased on the website, I mean this in the utmost respect, I only know one language. I know English is not Mark's first language and it is very ambiguous which way it means. But the other night I was in one of the chat rooms. I said, hey, look at this line right here. What does that mean to you? Do you read from this that the person who perpetrated this is the one who's going to benefit unless the rollback happens and it was unanimous, everybody thought that's what it meant. So I really pushed Mark to try to at least reword that because for one, I was telling people, I'm the one who has all these Bitcoins. He was telling people the hacker is the one who has all these Bitcoins. People are putting those two together saying, Kevin is the one who hacked the site then. Right, yeah, it's misleading. I was fighting an argument that didn't even make sense. So I'm trying to clear the situation right now at least say, before you come out saying, Mt. Gotch, you have to do a rollback. Understand who's involved. And it's not just me either. I got less than half the Bitcoins that were bought up. There are, it's impossible to tell which accounts bought. Was it one account that made 10 buys or 10 accounts that bought one buy? But there were hundreds of other buys that were coming in. There was otherwise no way these Bitcoins were going to sell. Somebody was buying them. All these people who bought some at various prices all did so in good faith. So before all of that gets rolled back, let's at least have the story straight. Right, yeah, I mean, I'm all about full disclosure and giving people as much information as possible. I'm an advocate of free open source software and everything, all that, and transparency. And that's the whole idea behind Bitcoin, the Bitcoin, the ledger is public and pseudonymous or whatever. But the idea of transparency, especially in an institution that you're trusting your money with. So I think that it really is important that nothing be misleading intentionally or unintentionally. So I think it's really important that people understand the hacker did not benefit if he did apparently only $1,000 worth. Kevin was the beneficiary of all this vast amount of Bitcoin. But he didn't actually get it. It's in his, you know, Mt. Gox account which is locked up like everyone else's. And if a rollback happens, he won't have received anything except for the 600 Bitcoin that you withdrew at that moment, but not the vast majority of it. So, you know, someone says, Kevin's employing reverse psychology that he's really the hacker and he's coming out because then everyone will think he's not.   I have a feeling that we'll probably never know who did that because they have no one that would come forward now. They can't brag about it because as far as we can tell, they failed. You know, all they did was cause some trouble and the people who were in it to cause trouble would have been bragging about this already. So, I think this was an opportunist who was trying to make a quick buck, didn't and giving away his identity now is gonna do nothing, you know. Right, right, okay. Well, a lot of questions and a lot of concerns. I'm glad we, oh, one more thing. There was a major transfer that happened right around the time of this crash, right? Have you even read about that? Was it 300,000 Bitcoin or something like that? And what's your take on that? Mt. Gox says that it was a routine transfer to transfer their Bitcoin out of one of their wallets to take it offline. What do you think, is that related to this crash? I think it was probably, you know, if what they're saying is true, it's probably a very prudent thing for them to do. You know, if possibly their entire system has been compromised, at the very least they need to move, they need to treat their wallet as compromised and move all the money to a different wallet or they risk losing everything. What kind of concerns me though, is if that is all of their money, that's far less than I think a lot of people assume they have and holdings right now, you know, which I think is maybe the bigger story here. Do they only have 400,000 Bitcoins? You know, was one person holding, this is one person here had more than 500,000, did this one person hold more than half of their inventory and is that why they're so desperate to have it back at the mall? You know, if 400,000 is all they have, they are very uncapitalized compared to, I think, what a lot of people's expectations are. What couldn't they have just been creaming off the excess, like with all the growth and all these new deposits, they were just, every once in a while they're peeling off the excess to keep it within, you know, a reasonable percentage. And that is possibly conceivable too, but I guess if I were in their shoes, I would treat everything as compromised, you know. Even if I had the other wallets that other things were in stored on flash drives that weren't plugged in, how do I know that when I was doing that, that computer wasn't compromised, you know. The prudent thing would have to be to treat every Bitcoin they have as potentially compromised and move them all to new wallets. And that was the only large transaction that's happened in this time frame. So, you know, again, this is really speculation, this is reading a lot into something that we're only seeing on a single number here. But, you know, they took credit for that transaction saying they were moving their money to somewhere safer. My question and response is, is that all you have right now? You know, that really changes this whole story there. Yeah. What do you think about? Somebody potentially just walk off with 60% of their deposit. Yeah, that would change everything, wouldn't it? What do you think about transparency and exchange sites? Should these exchange sites publicly disclose all their holdings and where they are wide open glasshouse transparency? I think people now are gonna demand that, you know, or at the very least start asking for more of it. You know, all we have right now is faith that they have not overspent what people have deposited in them. You know, if this causes a run in things when it reopens, we're probably gonna find out. I'm really, I don't think that's true. I really don't, you know, I'm really under the assumption that they have been honest with us, you know, and that they have not gone into a secret fractional reserve. Right. Yeah, I mean, we're obviously trusting everybody that we have our Bitcoins in the cloud. The, but obviously, you know, it's a whole different game. When you trust someone, you trust someone with five bucks. You trust somebody with 10 bucks. You trust somebody with a hundred bucks, thousand bucks, 10,000 bucks, a million bucks is a whole other story. You're a whole different league. And this, you know, Bitcoin has doubled so many times. People who just had little play money and pocket money in there suddenly have the majority of their net worth in it.  Like, whoa, wait a minute.  And he went and did something else. And now, and then later he discovered how much a Bitcoin is worth. And he's like, whoa, where is that old computer? Let me find this Bitcoin. You know, it was just, it was absolutely trivia. It was like two bucks or something or whatever. And then maybe it was 20 bucks. And then he, and now it's really worth some serious money. So he's like, whoa, I could actually buy a whole new system with that. But obviously everyone in Bitcoin who's been involved for more than a month or so has experienced that. It's no longer play money. Right. And I think it's been a growing experience for everybody that went from play money, you know, and you know, what I think is really funny is that a lot of people don't know this is Mt. Gotts stands for, you know, that the word Mt. Gotts is Magic the Gathering, online exchange. It used to be a trading site for Magic the Gathering playing cards. What is that? That's an online game? Yeah, it's a card game. Like it's sort of like, you know, role playing Dungeons and Dragons sort of game, but with cards. That's what Mt. Gotts used to be. And I have nothing against that. But you know, we're talking about tens of millions of dollars here stored on a site that not too many months ago to limit what they did was selling cards, you know. Yeah, game cards. It was like the eBay for this card game. And you know, that's how quickly all this grew up around it. And it's sort of a culture shock to everybody. Suddenly people with resources and money and everything else are all involved. And you know, do we suddenly grow up and play like adults? Or do we still keep this the way we had it before and it's the Wild West? Right, exactly. Everything is changing. So, so fast. All right, well, I think we're out of time. Again, I can't believe it. We could just talk forever about Bitcoin and there's never any conversation. We may have you on again and I'll, you know, we'll be in touch and we'll, you know, hash it out at 10 p.m. Eastern time, which is 2 a.m. GMT tonight. That's 10 p.m. here, 7 p.m. in California. And 2 a.m. GMT. Watch us live again and we're gonna have Mark from the owner of Mt. Gox on live with us. And get all your questions prepared. Write them up and get ready to put them in the chat room and we're gonna ask Mark live about all of these details. And I'm sure everybody has a lot of questions and we'll be interested to see what he has to say about all of this and maybe we'll have you on again soon, Kevin, and see how this all hashes out once they, so to speak. Once the dust sows. Eat your audience to see how this turns out. Yeah, exactly. Okay, thanks for joining us, everybody. And until 10 p.m., we'll see you then. Yes. Oh, of course.


It is the touch line here on Y-254 and we are hanging out with Robert Osoro and joining us on this set now is Eric Agano, he is a sports analyst, journalist and a man who loves youth and sports here on Y-254 and all around the world. Eric, welcome to the touch and how you doing? I'm good, thank you so much for the invite. What has been your highlights of the week so far? My highlight of the week may be yesterday, rugby. Yes, New Zealand winning that was good. And we are anticipating today's game. I know today is a cocktail of line-up. Yes. We start by Liverpool. I think in the next few minutes they should be kicking off against Everton. Magicide Derby. Magicide Derby. Yes. We also have Arsenal Chelsea. It's an interesting game and Man City Brighton. Absolutely. It's a big one. We'll be talking much more of that when it comes to the fans and also we've got the founder and also CEO of the Waziri Super Cup here in the studio with us. Salim, I forgot to ask you your highlight of the week when you were starting the show. My highlight of the week, I think some of the people that were feted yesterday on Friday, yes, yesterday for Mashuja, some of them have earned it. When you're talking about heroes of the nation, you're talking about what is the name of the lady who did a double in record. What is the athlete? The faith keeper. Faith keeper. She's one person I think was under the tag of being a national hero because she has gone out there and represented the nation in just one world record after world record. So that was my highlight of the week. Span of one year, three world records in the name of faith keeper gone well. For me, it's actually when it comes to rugby and that one yesterday, the African Football League was all about the organization that the Tanzania Football Federation put in alongside the confederations of African football and FIFA for that opening ceremony of the game between Simba and Hali as the inaugural edition of the African Football League. So for now, let's concentrate with the Waziri Super Cup that will be entering its fourth edition this year in Bungoma County and also joining us to talk about that is none other than the founder of the Waziri Super Cup, Salim Waziri. Salim? The first question is usually Waziri Super Cup. What does it entail? It's about when I started the tournament I wanted to do something for the community having played football myself and I really never got to the levels I wanted to do thanks to my Uncle Injari being shattered. So I said how will I live my life through other people. So I started a football tournament and through the tournament so far we have managed to pick a couple of talents I'm of Gontunzuaya Sugar. One is called Hasan Beja is now at FC Leopazia No. 10. So I think from the tournament there has been progress in it all and I just said many people start a football tournament again but what am I going to do different that will add that human touch into it. So I started feeding people feeding the needy and equipping girls with sanitary towels through the very tournament so I think again as I said I sat on this very set when I was doing the first interview about Waziri Super Cup and here we are and it's been quite a journey. So actually I have just talked about you have done it for three years this will be the fourth year that you are doing the Super Cup and the gains itself that the cup has brought in the people at Bungoma County how are those gains to the people? For the people it's something they look forward to it's basically giving hope to the helpless because if you don't do so much with your life but there is this one thing that as a people you connect to I've literally become the pride of those people because at some point in the year you might have had a terrible year from January to November but there's just one person who will come into my life in December and at least make me smile so I think they look forward to it now I've started receiving a lot of calls because we are now at 75 teams and I don't know have you ever heard of a tournament that plays 75 I want the likes of Eric and you to assist me but I want to find a criteria to eliminate the teams 25 teams there's no you playing that competition but then again you don't want to tell them it's too many teams because they want to participate in it some have even gone as fast registering their own teams they pick clan members so I pick Osoro, I pick Eric who are my brothers and cousins we're going to start training and register them with the FKF so that they come and take part in the tournament in December so it's quite a story so I hear them and I'm like it's quite inspiring but then again I think it's just what they look forward to and I'm glad that I've been I've been that hope for them Eric you are a youth community organizer you have helped youths come up and everything you have done some of these tournaments in Nairobi what do you usually look out for when you want to bring up a tournament like this first and foremost let me congratulate you to Aziri I know it's not easy and hearing that you're doing a fourth edition and the way football organizing a tournament the hustles and hustles that's a remarkable thing and to come to a question you look for something that can bring the community together because the beauty about grass football is not just football it's a way of life and you find that these people come together and what else are we looking at we're looking at now it being them owning it up it's not a matter of you now as the organizer it is them owning that tournament and you'll find that they will give you suggestions they will run the tournament and the beauty of it is that everybody would want to take part even when you're struggling financially you find that you'll find youths volunteering to do the field mark the field and such kind of things and it brings out something interesting because it unites the community it unites the hood it unites the estate currently we are doing the Sakaja Kapo also in Nairobi and you can see that in the young people the playing surfaces yes they are not as good as we would expect but the young people are coming up and it's really interesting to see it and if we can have many waziris coming up in each and every hood coming up with that you'll find talents coming up as he's mentioned that they've been able to support some talents and match them to higher levels if we can do that then it will be beginning of a very big thing to come we have talked about one of the challenges that you are experiencing in this one is the amount of teams that are actually coming out 75 even the world cup we don't understand you see you have seen the African Lagas drug from 24 they are brought into 8 teams and now you've got 75 what are the other challenges that come up with because now you've got a whole year to prepare but it's now October and the first challenges 75 teams what are the other major challenges that you experience in Uganda many times sometimes the local politicians because they don't do that for themselves so they feel when Eric or Ziri comes up with a tournament they want to run for a particular seat but they don't understand simply just doing it for the love of the beautiful game so some of them try and lay traps or they just start creating some PR propaganda that does not exist so that your tournament doesn't get the recognition of the umf it deserves so those are the kind of some of the challenges we go through and then you understand sometimes in western you might find that there are many local tournaments just small tournaments here and there and then the pitches are not enough and you look at the pitches that are available either in secondary school or primary school there are no community-owned pitches that you can just go and host your tournament and we understand that also these schools have been given restrictions because you might find that I will come there and Eric and Robert to watch the game but there are some people who have not come there for different reasons so schools have been prohibited from hosting some of this because again Robert you are talking about the finals of this local grassroot 5,000, 6,000 fans you cannot control all that crowd if you don't have enough security and the other major thing that usually comes out is that when you watch the grassroot football tournament the fun turn up that people usually come around from the community level to just come and enjoy the games because like one of the major tournaments that was done back home and I think also I think 5 or 6 years old is the Karamoja supermarket and you saw how those people came to that market center and those numbers shook the world, Kenyans were like no no no this one cannot happen but you look at Kotbiru we are having fans coming out bringing it to the tournament how come that we are coming out for the community but we are not coming out for our clubs I think it narrows down to the turnout shows two things one passion Kenyans are really passionate about football and also football is a unifying thing but when it comes to clubs I think it narrows down to management and organization of these tournaments because if you look at the local tournaments the grassroot tournaments the turnout is big Kotbiru the turnout is big but there is a task playing Madari in Nyarostadium the turnout is poor I think it narrows down to now how is it organized because you see when you bring the tournament close to the people when you make the people be part of that and I think our clubs should embrace that bring out the community because most of our clubs that enjoy a lot of fanatic following community best clubs look at Shabana coming in Shabana you will find the community has rallied behind the club look at FC Leopards look at Gormaya look at Muranga Seals has come in now it's doing well because the fans have rallied behind the club and I think when I come to organization the organizers of this game should I have said in the past why don't we have kakamega grounds as the home stadium for FC Leopards and you will see that stadium filled to the brim Bungu stadium because these guys love their club and if that game will be played there those who are in Nairobi will organize for transport you have seen Gormaya fans organizing for transport and travelling all the way to Mombasa to support their teams so it narrows down to organization let us accept that most of our clubs are community based clubs and if they are community based clubs first of all rally the community behind that club and then now the other fans will join in because there are those who are looking at and to go to a stadium that is full so if many of my friends are going to the stadium I will tag along but if many of my friends are going to the club to catch the English Premier League I will also tag along you see if we can do that because look at what was he saying when it comes to grassroot you find that that pitch is small and people on top of trees watching that game it is too small but people will be so filled because of the passion and because they identify with the tournament let our fans identify with our clubs and you will find that everything will turn around this thing when I was looking we looked at in the 3 years that you have had this tournament you have managed to feed over 400 families we cube over 1700 girls with the sanitary towels and secured 5 sports scholarships that is a big one and the question is one man or do you have sponsors and people coming in to help you out when it comes to doing such a tournament and for it to become a success when I started it for the past let's say 3 editions it has been breaking my back because I wanted to create you know robot once you create you create something that everyone wants to get attached to it you take that conversation to any corporate or corporate in the world and they see what you have been able to do because you have something to show for it they want to really be a part of it so I said for my 4th edition it will be my manifestation here because I want now to all that I have been able to do for the 3 years to come now to the 4 so that it is not a story anymore because if you have not tried and tested it there is no you can explain it to Eric and get him to understand what is the idea behind it but so I went I went alone for the past 3 years and now this is I have got a couple of partners on board so I think people have now realized that there are so many people out here that are doing so much for communities and football at large so they really want to be a part of it I will ask you about the scholarships because that one is one of the major things that most of our players usually look forward to because you don't want to have a playing career after playing career what next these 5 players who got scholarships how did you come about that Zitek also they have been partners over the years since the first edition and I am really grateful because they tell you you might be a wonderful footballer and how many players in Kenya will make you to the European leg very few, you can only count Mariga, Nawa Nyama and a few others who have not gotten to the elite level yet but they are still playing in Europe they ask me waziri because if we keep on providing funds we are not helping we are not helping the dream but you have players here I went and sat down with a couple of them I asked them what do you want to do with your life some of them were like I don't want to play football for the rest of my life because again the infrastructure is not right you cannot make it that easy I want to go to school and learn so the head of marketing at Zitek University is called Wycliffe Serango so he told me let's be picking at least 2 talented players who want to go to school every year so now at least we have got 5 that are under the sports scholarship program well and that is actually what we usually look out for in that you have something to take home for after the tournament and everything for the Sakaja Super Cup I think it has already begun how is it going so far it's going on well we have over 300 teams participating in the Sakaja Super Cup because we have 85 wards in Nairobi and each ward has brought in 4 teams so that is 85 multiplied by 4 so how it's organized it's played at constituency level so like for example we are really really best through Sambu constituency and those are 20 teams they play against one another so the best two will move to the next stage because we are also targeting to have the final in December now when we pick 222 from the 17 we will have approximately 34 teams which will now go on for matonamins kind of a world cup style but first the idea was to bring football to the ground and that is why we brought in each ward like tomorrow we have big big games in Roishambu we have the saints playing against the Ghidorai All Stars that's a big big game saints is from my hood that is Kaha West where we having saints will be playing tomorrow we have committee will be playing tomorrow we have kaha pride and also city sports those are the teams from Kaha West and the idea here is to bring young people together and the first round of games you could see clearly this is what the young people are missing in Nairobi because usually Kotbiro was targeting a few teams around Eastlands but this one is covering the whole of Nairobi and it's being played in the ward if it's being played in the ward that means accessibility young people will access those fields and you can see the fans coming to the stadium even old people coming to cheer their teams it's a good feeling and I understand when Waziri talks about now what he's done to his people down in Bungoma they're looking forward to that at the end of every year they know Waziri is coming so if you don't go they'll be so disappointed and finally what is the end game what is the future of Waziri Super Cup look like oh my goal is to create to create a team every single year because last year we created Wabuya Sportif they are now playing division 2 I want to create a team from the tournament every year I create a team and then going forward again the dream of the tournament the general dream is every single year we open up a business last year we started we started with with a kawush we are now as he is saying this youth have got to find something that distracts their minds from being a devil's workshop so keep them engaged and then also in partnership we also have a title sponsor thank god this year in one ex bet it's a global brand they will be they want to look for avenues of how to help the community in general because as much as they are betting they are advocating for responsible gaming one of the things that came out with the betting companies are that interaction with the community and in that you need a program that actually runs to help the community is that one of the reasons they are coming up to sponsor the Waziri Super Cup yes yes because again we are looking into they are also providing I think one thousand dollars that will go strictly to feeding the needy and equipping girls with sanita retire so that is literally there is nothing as big as that when it comes to community because people have got to eat and girls have got to feel safe in their own body so I think those are the the greatest things that are going to come out of this year's partnership with one ex bet well finally Eric the thing is what message does like the Sakaja Super Cup all the grass roots football community because it's a a major one in Kenya when you look at grass roots football it's a big one in Kenya what is the message that is being passed to these youths in these tournaments responsible living because we are we are urging them we understand that there is peer pressure we understand that things are tough but we are urging them to make responsible decisions decisions that will not affect their lives negatively in future and I know I will also appeal to our leaders also to embrace grass roots sports and you find that if each and every leader can come in and bring in something I'm sure then we will be able to keep our youth busy we will be able to reduce the social evils as you see as he said an idle mind is a devil's workshop and you find that these grass roots football sometimes gives people purpose especially over the weekend if I've seen the Sakaja Cup the games begin at 10 a.m so you see they begin at 10 a.m the first game is at 10 the next game is at 12 and the last game is at 4 so you see you've occupied this young man the whole day rather than now he could have gone to the base and engaged in other evils so we are just telling them journey together well it's a big word here in studio with Rika Ganya a youth organizer here in Nairobi and also sports journalist and we are also with Salim Waziru he is the founder of Waziri Super Cup as we talk about grass roots football and how these tournaments are there to empower the community you are going to incorporate rugby basketball in this tournament coming up looks like more employment opportunities for people back home absolutely because over the years I've been working with a committee of 15 guys you have to give people a chance to like show what they can do for society too so now this year because we are incorporating the other two games two sports we are going to at least have 25 members of the community who are at the end of the tournament they'll be paid for the one week of the sports festival that we are going to have from December 26th to 31st and then the beauty is for the first time we are going to have the tournament on New Year's Eve which will be the 31st so we are looking forward to the New Year's Sensation and then King Kaka will be performing at the after party after the finals so it is literally going to be a football festival so I will tell you and Eric to start packing your bags we will actually do that and it's a good one that we are having it's actually in Webuya, Bungoma Webuya Town, Bungoma County so if let's say a corporate wants to get in touch with you to go back home and sponsor these teams how can they get in touch? They can write an email to Salimozeri79 at gmail.com because we like it that way because some corporates want to be professional about it so that they have that paper trail in all if they want to be a part of it so that's how they can reach me also through my number which is 0715 006 1547 so that we can have a conversation of how to impact societies you can repeat that one actually looking at that camera so that they can get it actually if you want to be a part of the dream you can reach me on 0715 006 1547 well for Eric I think we brought you in but we've got to have another conversation of the Sakaaja Super Cup because it's already started it's going on at the moment for you what is the end game then the end game is to come up with talents want to identify those talents because most of the time we find that some of these young people lack an opportunity to showcase their skills and right now when we go to the hood they are able to showcase their skills and somebody will support it and you realize that there is a good player the first game, the second game, the third game definitely you recommend that player to some of our clubs and that way you see it gives young people hope that if I continue working hard somebody will see me because the issue of visibility also the talents are there but who is supporting them look at for example the secondary school games when you guys went to showcase what was happening in Kakamega Kibets was taken from that you see that's what we want to do we give them an opportunity to showcase what they are capable of and eventually you will find that so many young people are going to be taken from these hoods and join academies internationally and also nationally well as we going to the first season you realize that many of these tournaments will be coming up and the usual question that we can ask is it also high time that we as Kenyans are the stakeholders of the sports industry here in Kenya is it a time for them to rethink how sports is being structured and run because in these tournaments Waziri Super Cup Sakaja Super Cup Klova Smalala Karamoja Safarkum Chapadimba and high school football is where the funds are but when it comes to our major tournaments our sports that are run by our sports our funds do not actually come is it time that we actually rethink that one it is the touch in here on Y254 Erika Ganya with me and also Sal Mwaziri let's take a short commercial break and enjoy some of the international friendlies when it comes to football England won against Italy 3-1 we also got France winning against Scotland by 4 goals to 1 but it is all those conversations when we come back we will be all about the funds like around to Bowie potential for England