Good morning and welcome to Moments with Melinda. I'm so glad you joined me today. My guest is Lindsay Halpt-Varner. Hi Lindsay, how are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm great.  I'm so excited to learn about you in the Rokeby Museum. Yeah, I'm excited as well. So for my viewers out there, let me tell you who Lindsay is. Lindsay is the first full-time director at the Rokeby Museum in Ferrisburg, Vermont, and the museum is dedicated to preserving the story of the Underground Railroad and exploring modern-day issues of race and social justice. Right, Lindsay? Yeah, we do all those things. We're busy here at the museum. And you do a lot more. So we're going to get into that in detail in this interview. So Lindsay, let's start at the beginning and talk a little bit about your young years growing up, where you grew up, where you went to school, a little bit what influenced you to move into the work that you do today. Yeah, I grew up in central Pennsylvania in a town called Carlisle, and I was interested in history from a really young age. Through middle school, high school, I participated in history day. I took all the history classes I could. And so when I decided to go to college, I double-majored in government and history. I was unsure if I was going to be a lawyer or pursue history as a career. And in the end, I decided to pursue history, and it's been a love of mine for decades. So talk to us. I'm from Pennsylvania, too, by the way. Now, you're from central Pennsylvania, right? Yes, yeah. I'm from the Western Pennsylvania. So let's talk a little bit about who had the greatest influence in your life growing up to motivate you to move into historic preservation, because you did it as a child. I'm assuming you were a great student. You're probably a very good student. In the classes that I liked. Yeah, I had a history teacher in high school, Mrs. Hines, who would just after class would sit and talk to me about history. I'd be reading books and she would recommend books. And we would just sit and talk about historical themes and how it impacted the world around us. And that really left an impact on me. When I went to college, I ended up interning at the Cumberland County Historical Society in my hometown. And I had some fantastic mentors there. In particular, the photo archivist, Richard Tritz, and he really showed me how history can have an impact on the community around you. It's not just dates and facts, but it's really a way to engage the community. And it's a way for people to find love in the place that they're living or place that they're visiting. And he really fostered that in me throughout the internship. And I took that with me throughout my grad school career. And even today, this idea that history plays a much bigger role in our communities. Are you still in touch with those folks who inspired you? I am. Yeah. So I haven't seen Mrs. Hines in many years, but I ended up just a complete coincidence. When I ended grad school, I ended up back at the Cumberland County Historical Society. I was hired to administer a grant, and they were the fiscal sponsors. And Richard was still there. He's still the photo archivist. So it was wonderful to connect with him and actually work with him again. Yeah. He must be so proud of you and your career. So what is your favorite historical time? Yeah. So my expertise is actually in British history, early modern British history. I love learning about the Reformation. My PhD really focused on Quakers and how they developed as a community and they interacted with their towns. So I've always had this interest in community culture and religion and the Reformation. So living in England for six years, I got a chance to really experience British history. And so that's always been a huge interest of mine. So where did you live in England? I lived in Durham. It's where I did my grad degree at Durham University. So I lived it northeast England, not too far from the Scottish Quarter. So your thesis was on British history? It was, yeah. So it was on the rise of Quakerism in County Durham. Now did this position at the Rokeby bring you to Vermont? It did, yes. Had you been to Vermont? Had you ever experienced New England? Yeah, I had been to Vermont. I'd driven through Vermont to get to Canada before. And the year that I actually applied for the job, I came to Vermont for a training. I was in Burlington in February of 2020. And I had been working with Community Heart and Soul, which is part of the Orton Family Foundation, based out of Shelburne. And they brought me to Burlington for training. And I got an opportunity to experience the area. And I had heard staff talk about how wonderful Vermont was. And I finally got a chance to visit. And I just I fell in love with the area, which just seemed like a great place to live. I wanted to let you know that I served on the board of the Orton Family Foundation. And I was the whole Community Heart and Soul event that was sponsored by the Vermont Arts Council. And it was such an extraordinary event. And the foundation does a lot of great work. So that's interesting to know that that brought you into that training. Talk to us a little bit about your work at the Cumberland County Historical Society and what you did when you were there. Yeah, I was hired to administer Community Heart and Soul grants. The Orton Family Foundation had partnered with the Pennsylvania Humanities Council to pilot three communities in the state of Pennsylvania with the Heart and Soul model. And I was hired to do one of the towns. So I looked at the Greater Carlisle area. And it was kind of this mixture of my love of the humanities and community redevelopments. And so it was housed in the Cumberland County Historical Society. And then through the process of Heart and Soul, we learned the importance of preservation and history within the communities. And it ended up becoming a full time job for me as their Community Outreach Director at the Historical Society. So what is the history of Carlisle and Cumberland County? What was the history that you unveiled there? Yeah, the big thing that we unveiled was in a small town Mount Holly Springs just out of Carlisle was a African-American community that had essentially been written out of the town's history.  And one of the families, the Gumbies, had said to us that they would hate to lose the African-American history after they had passed. They were all in their 80s and their 90s. And they wanted to make sure that the legacy of their family survived. They had a multi-generational family that had lived in this town since just after the Civil War. And they said that they wanted to make sure that the church that their family had been a part of was preserved. And this church was completely overgrown and hidden by weeds. And when we finally had a chance to get into it, it's a circa late 1870s log cabin church that hadn't been used since the 1970s. And the story that they told led to this whole preservation effort to uncover the history of the family as we ended up finding former congregants who worshiped in the church as late as the 1960s. And this all started this major preservation project that I'm still lucky enough to be a part of today, even from Vermont I'm on the board of the nonprofit that was created to preserve this site. And this just became the start of a much larger effort to start to preserve African-American history in Cumberland County. How fascinating. I would love to see pictures of that church at some point. So Lindsay, you studied Quakerism. Tell us about what Quakerism is for my viewers who might not be familiar with that. Yeah, Quakerism started in the 17th century with the English Civil Wars. And it started with the gentleman George Fox. It is a religious group that came out of many religious denominations that grew out of the 17th century Baptists. You have the rise of Presbyterianism just before that. And so it comes out of a much larger Reformation tradition. Quakers believe in the most believe at the time, at least in the 17th, 18th century, in the inner light and the idea that you can directly commune with God. They believed in simplicity and plainness. And at some place like Brokeby, you can see that throughout the house. The family here were Quakers. And so their religious beliefs really played a large part in their daily lives. And their moral upbringing and their education, it all came back to their belief as a Quaker. Well, I'm from Pennsylvania too, as I mentioned, and we have the Amish there as well. But Quakerism is very big in Pennsylvania. So are you a Quaker? I am not, no. Well, the other thing about Quakerism that I think is really valuable is that there's a there's a peacefulness about them and a kindness where they come from a position of peace and kindness in everything that they do. Would that be fair? Yeah, they were throughout history, every major warrior, their conscientious objectors. There is, like you said, that peacefulness. And there's also it, there's very strong moral integrity among Quakers. And that's certainly something that we talk a lot about here at Brokeby with our first two generations, a particular abolitionist generation, that their strong beliefs really were rooted in their beliefs as Quakers. Fascinating. And we do have a group, there's a church in Burlington. And there's quite a few Quakers in Vermont. So now let's segue, fascinating upbringing and education and work that you've done in your life. Lindsay, now let's focus on the Rokeby Museum, because you are the first full time director. Tell us more about the museum. How long has it been there? Give us a little bit of history about the Rokeby. Yeah, the museum has been here in some form since the 1960s. The last Robinson to live in the house, Elizabeth Robinson, willed the site to what was then called the Rowland Evans Robinson Memorial Association, which had been in existence since the 1930s to honor one of our third generation residents in the home. And the site was intended to tell the story of the family when Elizabeth willed the property. She said that they would not be allowed to auction off any of the items inside the museum. So we have this fabulous collection that spans four generations of the family. They lived here from 1793 till 1961. So you can imagine just all of the types of things that we have in our collection here. And so the museum has always told the story of the family. And then they've also used the family's lives through those four generations to tell a much broader story of American history as well as Vermont history. So we initially started out really focused on Rowland Evans Robinson. He was the son of our abolitionists at Rokeby. And he was a nationally known author and the original Memorial Association had members from all across the country who just loved Rowland's books. He wrote history books. He wrote books from about fictional towns in Vermont that are written in the Vermont dialect. He wrote about conservation and the environments and industrialization. He was just a very interesting figure who cared about a lot of different topics and he wrote about them. And where was he from? So he was born and raised here at Rokeby. And where was his family from? Where did his family hail from? So they were all here. So he was third generation of the family here at Rokeby. And originally they probably came from England? The first generation, so Thomas Robinson arrives in the 1790s in Vermont and he was from Newport Rhode Island. And we have been able to trace the Robinson family in Newport and back to England. We believe they were from what's today Cumberia, but it was Cumberland England at the time. And they are multi-generational bakers going back to some of the first bakers in the 17th century in England and they moved to Newport Rhode Island and then to Vermont. And you have to wonder, because this was after Ethan Allen, you have to wonder what would bring people from Rhode Island up through the wilderness of Vermont and the cold and the harshness of Vermont. Do you have any idea what inspired them to come up here and build this beautiful home? Yeah, that's been a big question that we've been looking at at Rokeby is what brought that first generation to Vermont. We know that after the revolution, Newport was in decline. It was pretty much decimated during the revolution. Thomas Robinson and his brother William really came, were the ones who came to Vermont. They were younger sons, it's possible, there were just no opportunities in Newport. And Vermont was a new state. It was kind of like this wild new opportunity to establish yourself. So we find them purchasing mills, they're running mills. It appears that they were land speculating. So when they purchased the property at Rokeby, they're by no means poor. They seem to have a substantial amount of income already here in Vermont. Fascinating. So let's talk to our viewers a little bit about the underground railroad, because it really was not a railroad, was it? No, not at all. It's more a loose connection of people that are working to help freedom seekers self emancipate and find a place in the north out of enslavement. Our second generation were the abolitionists. So Rowland, his wife Rachel, and their good friend Anne King, were active in the anti-slavery movement. They utilized Rokeby as a stop on the underground railroad. We're not sure how many people came through the site. We probably will never know how many people came through. And we really don't know what the people we do know about. We don't know what happened to them after they left Rokeby. Sometimes they would stay at night. Sometimes they would stay for longer and work on the farm and save up money, but what happens to them afterwards, we're not entirely sure. But the family were active, not just in Vermont, not just in Farrisburg, but they were national figures in the abolitionist movements throughout the 1820s to the 1850s. Now oftentimes enslaved people who fled to the north could be recaptured. Was that the case in Vermont or not? Yeah, we don't really have a lot of documented cases of people being captured and returned south. And there are a lot of theories as to why that is. Vermont is so far north. It would be difficult to take somebody back south. We also see that after the passing of the Fugitive Slave Act in 1850, a lot of underground railroad work goes further west into New York and straight into Canada. It doesn't seem to be as many freedom seekers coming through Vermont. And you also just see a decline in work on the underground railroad because it becomes even more dangerous to be helping freedom seekers on the underground railroad. So as far as we know, there are very few documented cases of individuals being captured and sent back to the south. Well, Vermont didn't support slavery. Am I correct? Yes, I know. As a state, there's gradual emancipation in Vermont. But if you think about individual people in communities, not everybody is an abolitionist and actively supporting the end of enslavements. And I think Vermont fits in with a lot of other northern states. There's still racism. There are still people who are not actively supporting the end of slavery in the United States. So it's, I don't think in many ways, standing out from the rest of the north. They're very much the same as anybody else living in the 19th century.  Very, very difficult. So since you have been in Vermont for a couple of years, have you experienced racism? And have you experienced racism? I mean, have you seen it? Do you feel it's ear? Yeah, I think that's one of the things when people come into Rokeby. We get a large, kind of a broad array of people coming into the site, whether it be locals or people from the states or tourists coming in. So we hear a lot of stories of what people experience when they're in the state, whether it be they're visiting and there's this noticeable lack of people of color in the state. We've heard that from visitors before the museum or people telling stories of how they felt uncomfortable or not welcomed. But you also, we get the flip side of that as well, where people say they feel very welcomed and that they're sometimes surprised at how open people are to welcoming them into their communities and to sharing about aspects of Vermont history or communities, whether it's trails or restaurants to visit. There's also almost that level of surprise that you can be such a white state and so welcoming. So we hear both sides of those stories and I think that's important for us as a museum to listen to the stories that visitors are telling us and really think about how the history within the state impacts how people experience our communities today. And basically, it's a refuge. I mean the Rokeby Museum is in a world today in a country today that is banning books and trying to hide the true history. The Rokeby's approach to racism is to discuss it and bring it out into the open and to share the history. So you do state that the museum does not shy away from the fact that Vermont is not perfect here because regardless of our history is abolitionists and the Underground Railroad, there still are racist tendencies. And you and the Rokeby have gotten involved in supporting and sponsoring social justice forums around the state. Talk a little bit about that, Lindsay. Yeah, we want to make sure that as an institution, we're not just presenting the history through exhibits, telling people that they need to come to the museum, although we really do want you to come to the museum. But we also want to make sure that we can support other organizations and the work that they are doing, that we can share our knowledge and what we know about the past and find a way for that to have an impact on the present. I think one of the most important things that we can do as historians, as professionals within the public history and the museum field, is to ensure that people really understand that the past has an impact on what is happening around us currently. And you can't ignore the things that make you uncomfortable. You can't ignore conversations that might make your ancestors or make previous community members look in a bad light. It's about learning and discussing and really understanding how we can move forward within our society and within our communities. And that's one of the most important roles that we play within the institution. And we really want to make sure that we continue to do that work in the best way that we can. And so one of those ways is working with other organizations to highlight the work that they're doing and sharing the knowledge that we have. And you have this fabulous program, ourselves and others exhibition, which is racial learning with preschoolers. Right? It's a fantastic program. Yeah, all the way starting in preschool. So this is a curriculum that we developed thanks to a grant from the Henderson Foundation. And it is really allowing us to go into preschools and start conversations at a very young age about what makes us different in our communities. And that that's okay. And so our educator Tucker Foltz has been going into several preschools. We've been partnering with them for these months long projects that are hands on education with the students. And we were very lucky, one of the classes the Bridge School last year allowed us to keep some of the students' artwork that they produced so that we can share it with the public. What they learned. We've got fabulous self portraits that they did, just really starting to start some conversations that they're going to have when they come to the museum in third, fourth or fifth grade. But starting that conversation young, because that's what experts in the field are saying we should be doing to create a more inclusive community as having these conversations with young people as soon as possible. Well, because learning is one to six years of age is when your language is created and a lot of your ideas and to be able to teach about racism at that young age has a huge impact. Share with us the project Finding Hope Within, which combines art made by incarcerated artists in Vermont, Massachusetts in Maine. And on August 20th, John Vincent, a guest curator, hosted a gallery talk. Tell us about that. This is a fantastic exhibit. John Vincent, with a revolutionary press, approached me a couple of months ago. He heard that we had an open gallery and asked if he could take it over. And when he told me what he was kind of envisioning for the space, I said, of course, it's yours. Do what you want with the space. And it goes back to a lot of work that he has been doing with reentry programs, with connecting artists, with people who are incarcerated and using art as a way as an outlet. And so he is basing this off of a previous exhibit that was done in Maine with people who are incarcerated in Maine. So we do have objects in the exhibit from Maine, Massachusetts, as well as Vermont. And they range from individuals who are currently incarcerated, who did the work while in prison, and then also individuals who are in reentry programs as well. So it's a fantastic exhibit. And the underlying theme throughout it is that idea of finding hope. And it ranges from poems to knitting to collages. It's a beautiful exhibit. John did a wonderful job curating it. And it's up right now, right at the Rokeby Museum. Yes, it's up until October 14. And the Rokeby is in Ferrisburg, right off of Route 7. You can't miss it. It's right after, on the way to Ferrisburg, right after the Teddy Bear factory, right? Yes. Yeah, you can miss us. So also you, you, the Rokeby has hiking trails that the public is invited to, to use. And the Rokeby provides on site in classroom and virtual learning experiences for students pre K through 12th college and homeschool groups, and for adult groups as well, right? Yeah, we'll do private tours for adults. We get a lot of businesses who want to come to do different types of outings with their employees. And we welcome anybody who wants to come and have a tour of the museum or the house. We love showing people around and sharing the history of the site. Well, it certainly helps if you're doing diversity training and any of my viewers who have a company, if you want to do diversity training, one of the places to start is at the Rokeby, I would say. Now much of your, I want to just let people know that the website that you have is very, very good. It's excellent. It's Rokeby, R-O-K-E-B-Y dot org. And I suggest you visit it. Most of your funding comes from donations. There is a donation button on the site and we encourage our viewers to, to donate to the Rokeby Museum and this great work and no donation is too small. Also, there are many folks who volunteer at the Rokeby. You can get involved with tours, collections, work, trail maintenance, and there's a section on your website for folks to sign up. Now, on September 16th at 8.30 p.m., there's a free exhibit, Astronomy at the Rokeby with the Vermont Astronomical Society. You want to talk a little bit about that, Lindsey? Yeah, that's, we're going to be at Rokeby. We're going to find a spot on site and hopefully we'll have clear skies and we'll have telescopes out and the Astronomical Society is going to be walking people through using the telescopes and showing what's in the night sky that evening. How fun is that? Yeah, I'm really excited. It's the first time we've done this program so I'm very excited to be able to host it at the museum. Well, I encourage my viewers to go and I'm sure they could just walk in and on September 16th, it's coming up at 8.30 p.m. That's when the sun will be going down around that time and it's a free exhibit, Astronomy at the Rokeby with the Vermont Astronomical Society. So go on and check that out. I also wanted to mention and give a big shout out to Bob Standard and Paul Asbell. They held a music fundraiser which we were out of town, we couldn't make it for the museum and I think they raised quite a bit of money for the museum. Yeah, we raised $10,000 that evening. It was a phenomenal night, absolutely amazing and everybody who came out to support the museum and our exhibitions, it was just wonderful. We were raising money for a matching grant to help us with our revamp of our main exhibition, our underground railroad exhibition, that'll be happening this winter. So thanks to them, we met our match and we'll be getting underway to update that exhibit. So it was a great evening. It's outstanding. So Lindsay, what words of wisdom can you offer our society on helping to heal the world we live in? Any words of wisdom? Oh, I think I'm looking for words of wisdom on any given day. But for what I tell people, I mean as a historian, be read, just constantly be reading what is out there, learn about the past, learn about your community and also be thinking about what stories in your community might be missing. One of the most impactful parts of not just my career, but I think in my life was that aha moment where I realized there were hidden and missing voices in my community, that there were people who society and culture deemed their history not to be important enough and it is missing. And at Rokeby, we can't tell certain stories because of that. So look around your community and think about who is missing and start digging into that history and bringing it to light, because it'll tell you a lot about your community and it could start helping with some healing that might need to happen. So beautiful, Lindsay, beautiful. Talk about how our folks can sign up for your newsletter.  Yeah, if you go to our website, you can sign up for our newsletter that goes out every week, every week or two weeks. And you can stay up to date. We're on Facebook, we're on Instagram. You can stay up to date with all of our programming through our website as well. Well, Lindsay Hopdvarner, I got to tell you, it is just a joy to have you in Vermont and leading this extraordinary museum. And I want to thank you for all your hard work and the work of your staff and your extraordinary board of trustees, too, that are doing a great job. I look forward to your new exhibit coming up in May. And I encourage all of my viewers to get down. Route 7, it's in Ferrisburg, right on the left. You can't miss it. And spend a day at the Rokeme Museum. I promise you it'll be time well spent. So Lindsay, thank you for being on my show. I deeply appreciate it. Thank you, Melinda. I hope to get to know you better, my friend. Bye-bye. Bye, thanks.


Shucks, shucks, just, just.  Shucks. And if you follow us on Instagram, for more juicy content, and you think so on Patreon, follow us on YouTube, to count and subscribe. Shucks. Ooh, helps out the algorithm. Yep. And that's what we want. Yep. Everyone wants it. You, I want it, I want it.  Everybody wants the algorithm up there, but, uh-uh. Everybody wants the algorithm up there, but, uh-uh.  The algorithm song. The algorithm up there, but. Today, we're doing a movie review. Of the highly anticipated. Very old movie. Been around forever. All of you have seen it. A 22 film. Vikram. Now do the robot one. Vikram. But it's directed and written by Locash Kanagaraj. Forgive me if there's a mispronunciation. And just this morning. Starring some unknown people. We reviewed his other film, Kythi. Yeah. Which is obviously involved in this film. It was a, it was a, it was a double feature. A double feature. Yeah. But so obviously we haven't seen the review. We'll drop that one first. Obviously before Vikram, our Vikram review drops. Starring just a few little, tiny little people. Yeah. A couple of people. Kamal Hasan. Yep. Don't know if you've heard of him. VJ Sastupathi. Not sure if you've heard of him. And another newcomer. Another newcomer named Fafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafafaf people sometimes watch our reviews and see if they want to go, not saying you should ever do that. You can make your own opinions. Unless it's really, really bad and we don't want you to give money to that film. That's true. Yeah, that's true. But, yes, so this would be a little non-spoilers and then we'll get into the spoils and you can let me know what you thought. I overall had fun and had a good time. I have issues with the film, some that we will talk about. By the way, we make it a point not to share our feelings about the films. You probably know this. There's only one thing we talked about. Yeah, we'll talk about that. We typically are mums the word. Andrani called me when I was in the car and said, what'd you think of the film? I said, well, I'm sitting right next to Corbin. Because we don't want to share our thoughts. We prefer to get the initial reactions. With you. But overall, I had a good time. It's fun. And it's a good, fun film. What'd you think? Gotta tell you, it doesn't feel like three hours. No, it doesn't. I think it's got a nice clip to it. I think the pacing, just like Kythe, lends well, except for there's one part in it that I think lags. And we'll get into that in a little bit. But there's one part that lags. But other than that, like Kythe, I think they kind of do it, I don't wanna say it's Quentin style, even though there's some stuff in this that is very Quentin style. But there's like, here's the thing. And then the next scene, they're doing the thing. Right. And then so there's now, the pacing keeps it going. True, the pacing keeps it going. And some things that are done in the storytelling that's both original, unpredictable, interesting. So it does the momentum keep, and it does help that you've got three people who are really fun to watch on screen. Overall, I would actually say, you could tell me if you agree with this. This is what I was hoping I would got from KGF. Yeah. Two. Yeah, KGF two. This is, and you guys can have your own opinions about KGF two. Obviously we have ours and you've seen that. Exactly. But this, in terms of big action, a lot of fun, I'm not like, it's not this amazing story, even though I think this does have a good story. It's a little more complex story. Yes, absolutely. But it gave me what I wanted from the trailer. Agreed. It's what, that's probably the most. KGF was what I wanted from Push Pod. This is what I wanted from KGF. I agree with you. And the biggest thing is that, whereas the trailer for KGF two, the film didn't give us what we were anticipating, this one did. And this one also took us to places where we actually had some story. We actually had moments where we could breathe and there's dialogue. You have moments where some interesting things are done, whereas it's just, and I'm not harping on the KGF two aspect, but as you know, for those of you who saw our review, we were disappointed with KGF two. Yeah, there's more to enjoying this than not like. It will get in. Very much in the same way with Kythe. Yeah. It's very similar gripes and likes. Very similar gripes and likes. Some of them are just straight up identical, which you'll hear in a second. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also, I can't wait, in fact, I may do it sitting here, to see how much of the score is available on Apple Music because the music. Yeah, by, say his name. Yes, is Anirud Ravi Chander. Easily for this year. Well, actually RRR came out this year. I was gonna say this one. I know. I think overall, I mean, those have great songs. They have great songs. They have great scores. Overall score is this one. Agreed. The songs in RRR are irreplaceable, memorable forever. And it has a great score. So don't get us wrong on that. But this song, there are some movies, the score is such an essential aspect of the film. And when people talk about the film, like after we saw Inception, that's all that Michael was talking about with me and with us and that I've had other people talk about is one of their favorite Hans Zimmer scores is not just a Chris Nolan film, but one of their favorite is the same thing with Dune is like, and I gotta tell you, Hans Zimmer does some scores. I got a lot of his music and my own personal music that I listen to as well as workout music. And this just doesn't stop providing an undertone that's just badass and fun. Yeah. Oh wait, sorry. It's just shucks. It's so. We're referring to. We'll get into that. We'll get into that when we're talking about the things that we didn't, which we should do that before spoil, before we get into spoilers. You know what, we're gonna say stuff we didn't like. Yeah. But what we're referring to is sometimes, I don't know who subs these films. Really? And also, you need the folks who sub here, yeah.   And underneath it says shucks. And one time it's, he said. He said Maracho. Maracho. And it said, gosh darn it. Gosh darn it.  It said gosh darn it. It's really guys. And also, there's other things, like there's times where people would laugh at something that was happening on screen and I wouldn't understand. The joke. What was happening? A couple of times. So I assume it was either there's a dialect thing or something like that. Or an inside joke. Something referenced, probably a reference from a movie. There were a few that we got. I think there were, it has some laughs in it. I think there were a bunch of Kamosan old film references. Oh, I bet. Yeah. Little tips that I had. I would pick up on some, but we didn't pick up on all. But so that was, that's what we were talking about. Let's get into the performances here. Yeah. Who do you want to start with? Kamosan? Let's start with the elder patriarch legend. This was so interesting, because normally we're used to seeing him in more of a thespianatic style, right? Yeah, yeah. And this got him being basically rocking star. Yeah, and you have to, the best thing you can do to see this movie is please set aside, and we did this. We said we were gonna do this. The trailer warned you to do this. We said if we get any thespianatic flexing, that's just gonna be a bonus.  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, and it's also fun, we'll get into him as well. It's also fun to watch Fahad Fasil be this character as well.     He has multiple great fight scenes. Great fight scenes. Great kills. And clearly is doing a lot of his own stunt work in this, which is pretty impressive when you consider these guys almost 70. Yeah, and it's quite, because I'm not gonna, well, you know, the film starts with the dancing. You've seen the music number. Yeah, you've seen the music number. The dance number where he's got his shirt and he's biting his shirt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It starts opening credits. It's opening, which is fun. It's not a spoiler. It's a lot of fun to start with that. Yeah. But you could tell, like he just, he doesn't move like he used to. No. And it didn't take anything away. Not at all. But the fact that he's doing what he's doing in this with such action and stunts, and obviously there's certain times that you can tell it wasn't actually him, nor it probably should have been at his age. Exactly.  Exactly. It's like, hey, Tom, talk to me in 20 years, buddy. So, yeah. I thought it was a lot of fun seeing him in this. And his character's fun. I thought it was a lot of fun seeing him in this type of character. There was a lot of humor in this. A lot of humor. And that's part of what kept it going. Yeah, so obviously the action helped. The humor in a lot of it helped. The editing and the same beautiful stuff that we get from the cinematography, just like we got in those aspects, you're gonna get the same stuff but you just know they got more money this time. Exactly. And so it looks better even in terms of the lighting, the set design, the cinematography. There were at least 10, maybe 12 moments of fight and action where we jumped in our seats and cringed because of stuff going on that was so creative. Some of this movie has some of the most creative kills. And I don't wanna give it too much away. Yeah, I don't get anything. I just want you to know that you're going to, if you like like we do, fight scenes and creative stuff, some of it gruesome, you're gonna love this. Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun. Fafa, I think probably, unspokenly, probably the strongest performance overall, even though this is not like his strongest performance, I'm saying for the film. No, actually, I thought VJ actually did a really good job as well and he did such an interesting character. I thought they all did well. Yeah, I was gonna say it. But I think it's pretty balanced. I think maybe the lead in this film, I feel. I feel he has more screen time than Kamal. You know what?  Yeah, I was gonna talk about it in spoilers. Let's just say, what do you expect? Yeah, it's Fafa. And we said this about them, but it's Fafa. You're gonna, all three of them are gonna give you- Good performance. They're not gonna give you a bad performance. No, no, no. But it was cool to see him at certain times, he would lash out at certain things, which is a lot of fun. His characters- Yeah, you said that early on. You said something like, I love seeing angry Fafa. Yeah! I do. I love seeing him. Because he has a similar thing that Pankaj does in terms of he can be, look like he has the kindest face in the world. Yeah, he can be very diminutive in his persona.  I thought that as well. Again, making a comparison, when we had seen the trailer for Pushpa, I was, this is what I was hoping I'd get to see from Fafa. Yeah. Into that kind of character in that one. That kind of character and even that amount of time on screen. And then obviously, Vijay Sattapathi. Vijay Sattapathi, I liked his, actually, now I think about it, he must have had a lot of fun. He had the most in terms of, he went for it the most. I had of everybody. I think character-wise, he took the biggest risks. Yeah, I agree. I think they worked. And they worked. I really enjoyed his quirks. There were a couple of times when I'm like, okay, let's see where you go.  Because at certain, what was that film that the guy just had the... Oh, no. What was that? What film was that? The constant lazy art. I forget the film. But that became a shtick in that. Yes. His stuff never became a shtick. So that's good. No. But it came close enough. It did, that I was looking for it and saying, please don't shtick it up.  Yeah, they did. It's almost a superhero film. And if you're casting people from Hollywood cinema in this, Johnny Depp is playing Vijay Satapathi's role. I could absolutely see him because it's a character. I would actually put, even though I called Kamal Sahn John Goodman, I would actually put John Goodman in his role. In the Vijay Satapathi role? Yeah. Oh, and I think he'd make it too quirky. No, John Goodman is I think one of the most underrated actors. He's very good, ever. But I think he'd make it a little... It'd be very different, it would be fun. But yeah, I think he gave very solid performances. He gave such a unique, quirky, different, took risks. He took a lot of risks. And I appreciate that. And I would expect that from him. He makes choices of characters that are strange. And not that I all ask all actors when they're taking a role are gonna take some risks at certain points. And you may not even know what some of those are based on what they're doing improvisationally when they're on set, but the most visible one here of the three. And it's given in the character is the one that Satapathi plays. So they were... Yeah, I thought they did really well. I thought the supporting cast did very well. There was a few supporting and I won't get into them, but I can't get into it yet. Yeah, in the spoiler section. Certain supporting actors that I really enjoy in it as well. Overall, I've really enjoyed the quirkiness of the... I mean, not the quirkiness, but the way he constructed this story. And I thought it was well done in terms of almost a three-hour film, probably two hours 45, I imagine it was. It kind of kept going outside of there's one point, kind of almost after the interval that I thought lagged just a bit. Yeah, and also a lot of people have been watching it like we did to see that prior movie, Kathi. Is that how you pronounce it, Kathi? Yeah, something like that. Yeah, it helps. It helps and there are some references to it. You could still see this and enjoy it without having had those references, but it does... You probably should. It does help because they're part of the same universe. So it would help you to do that. It also gives you an idea of the style of the film. The style in the film, because this very much is structured story-wise. Very similar. Very similar. Very similar. Very similar. One thing before spoilers, I don't know if this will be the case. This was the case with KGF2. But there may be a predominant spread that you hear about in murmurings about the loudness. This, again, was insanely loud. Especially at the action. Yeah, I was measuring decibel levels in it because it was hurting my ears and it was reminding me of where it was getting into KGF2 territory which many people, including us, have said, loudest movie I've ever seen in my life. It was brutally painful. And apparently the production house. Yeah, production house heard the cries and did a new print and sent a new print out. I don't know that that's gonna need to happen. There's a balance between the production company and the producers that make the sound and then the actual sound in the theater because there's a relationship between the two. Yeah, so I don't know if it's the theater, if it's the production house or both. But this was, I took measurements while we were watching it and pretty much anything above 85 decibels and 85 DBA is starting to get too loud and most movie theaters are at 90. We were living, not peaking, we were living at 112 decibels for most of the film. And sometimes you could hit that in conversation. So they'd be talking and it would get loud enough that it would hit but the action sequences were living at 112 decibels. Look up what makes those noises. It's loud. And so that was, that's, like I said, I don't know who to blame for that in terms of if it is the production house. Well, please load it. Or if it is the theater itself that needs to know that Indian films have a lot of background music and they need to lower it a little bit. I don't know. The point you made in the car I think is right because it didn't happen with RRR. That's the only thing we talked about in the car. It didn't happen about an R and that was the only thing we talked about. But we have a feeling that, and Corbin pointed this out, I have a feeling that production houses take the action films of Indian cinema and they make them a bit hot because they know how loud it's gonna be in the theater with everybody screaming their butts off. Yeah, maybe. And we're not accustomed to that. So when it hits here, it plays hotter than normal and the theaters here probably need to know to. Yeah, but then you don't get that with RRR. So I have no idea. Yeah, very strange. I don't know where that falls. That was definitely an issue.  If KGF was a 13 out of 10 in terms of loudness, this was maybe an 8.5, 8.5 to 9 sometimes. Yeah, out of 10, at times. And so luckily I could still hear it very well and it didn't ruin my enjoyment but it would have been nice to not have to do that. Yeah, it really would have been nice not to have to plug my ears. I absolutely, 1,000% agree. Should we go to the spoils? Yeah, so overall I think it was a very enjoyable film. I think you'll have fun. Go in, enjoy the pacing, enjoy some of the performances, enjoy the action because we did. And you guys can let us know. And it was a full house. Yeah, full house.  Yeah, which is great. I checked all the showings. It's great. But let us know what you thought in terms of, well, no, we're getting the spoilers. We're getting the spoilers. Spoil time. Okay, so the first thing I wanna say at the spoilers is I wanna see a universe film of this Vikram world with the aunties. Where we learn where Tina and all the aunties are trained to do what they do and just give us like seven aunties at different places doing what they do. That was one of the most fun tasks. She had some of the best kills with a fork. The forks, man. I almost wanted to do a thumbnail with the forks, but I don't wanna give anything away. She needs her own spinoff. She is absolutely, let's do a prequel with her, although I hate prequels when we know all characters. But create other, just this whole school of aunties that get trained to do what they do and they are the baddest, most deadly agents that you've got. Also, we can talk about the originality because I loved some of the things they did. Like you've seen a character for who knows how long and then their identity is revealed comic book style. It's like agent, da-da-da. Yeah, I think Quintin's done that a lot. Yeah, that's a very Quintin. It's also a Paul Rodriguez thing to do. Yeah, Paul Rodriguez. Yeah, I really enjoy that. A couple of other performances that I really enjoy was, I don't know if he would be considered a little person, but that gentleman- Oh, he was fantastic. Who did the- Oh, that destroyed us. Yeah. Oh, the clipping of the Achilles tendon. Oh, man. We squirmed in our chairs every single time that happened. It was- And then it was over and five minutes go by and I said to Corbin, I still can't think of it. And he does it like three times. But yeah, I'd like the actor's performance actually. I thought that actor did a really good job. I did too, loved him in that role. I think there'll be a lot of fun to see more of him in the future. Absolutely. I just saw on IMDb- Frick, dude, what's your workout program? Yeah. The guy is built. He is absolutely built. There was some aspects in the, like they said, the after the interval. Correct. Until, I don't know how long, it wasn't that long, but there was a point that I don't know how you felt. I thought that part of the film dragged more than others. And I think you probably could have cut, like maybe 20 minutes out of this film. And maybe a little tighter. Probably. I think. Maybe. And I think I didn't, I think one of the reasons maybe I wasn't as aware of that was because I was at that point measuring decibel levels. So I wasn't as riveted to what was going on as I would have been and paying attention to the pacing. So I didn't feel the same kind of lag like I did with Kaiti when there was that long drive and it kind of slowed for a second. But I am so, so grateful for the pacing and the breathing and the originality. There's so much in this story, everything from stunt work to, like the connection point with his grandson and then the connection point, we could have gotten lost on a lot of things and not cared. So you've got Fahad and his wife, you have Kamal and his grandson. You've got Vijay Satapathi and his stash and what he's needing to do, how they're connected. It could have gone off the rails. Oh yeah, yeah. And there was a lot going on in this film. And so the fact that we were able to kind of keep up with everything, I think is an attestment to the directing and the writing of this film. Yeah. Agreed. It could have gone awry very easily. Yeah, it really could have. There were a couple of CGI things where you're like, okay, always chalk that up to budget. Some fire. Always chalk it up to budget. There was a lot, there was some stuff like that in this film that I do agree. And there was one, oh man, dubbing. Oh yeah. There's one moment I saw and I was like, dang it. How'd you not miss that? It's early on. It's the first scene with Fahad Faseel and his wife. And you hear her say something and it's a far shot. He's standing with her, his back is to us and she's against the bookcase.  And then they zoom into a close-up and that's the other point of view where she is talking, which happens a lot. You get an establishing shot with dialogue from the actual close-up, but her mouth wasn't moving. Yeah. The same dubbing stuff. I've really appreciated a lot of the gore in this. The fact that Fahad Faseel's wife decapitated. Decapitated. Like just brutal, obviously the Achilles stuff. That was rough. Some people got impaled with this. The finger breaks? Yeah. Jesus, so many finger breaks. Somebody got stabbed with pens in the face. In the face, a whole mouthful of pens. And then the one where Kamal Hassan puts the knife in the guy's face and slams his face against the wall. That was phenomenal. I think he killed somebody with a laptop too. Ah, he did. Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot of cool stuff. So many cool. Do you know, what was Vijay chewing that made him? All I thought was, he was going to New Mexico, man. He was getting the blue. That's what I thought of. If he explained it, I'm sorry. He knew Walter White. That's what I knew. If it was something, and it was explained, I'm sorry, I missed it too. Yeah, I missed it too. I didn't know what, why his, I got the fact that the white stuff is like this compound that you think- He's just like a blue tablet. His was a blue tablet. That gave him like ultimate power. I thought it was Walter White's blue stuff, man. And I actually, I made the comparison. This felt almost like, almost Batman-esque in terms of- It did at times. Villains. It did at times. Obviously, the bane, the mask, and the voice, and the fact that he has whatever drug this is. Luckily, it didn't hinder my appreciation because I was, it was kind of the world they had already built. This is kind of this. It was partially in real world, partially not. Yeah. A little bit. It's kind of like Batman without the darkness. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I think so. And then the background score outside of the loudness of it was I thought, great. Spectacular music. That's why I wish it was lower. So I wouldn't have to cover my ears to appreciate- I know, I wanted to live in it. All the songs were fantastic in terms of, and it's not like song and dance songs, but in terms of song sequences, that we heard a lot of them before this film ever came out, I thought were great and- And it also does a disservice to all of the work because I guarantee if the sound level, the actual decibels were lower, we would be raving more about sound design. And it's a real disservice and injustice to everyone who works on sound to have the sound level so high that you have to plug your ears. Cause then you're missing all the nuances of the sound mixing and the sound editing. And I have a, from everything I saw and heard even through the times I was doing this, which I didn't have to start covering my ears until about an hour. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's when it started to become too much. But the sound design was really, really good. And again, here's where I have a gripe that's exactly the same, but it's not as big of a gripe because it wasn't as overt.  Come on, man. I guess, cause I feel like they were treating both films kind of like almost gangster superhero films. And so superheroes would get stabbed and they just keep going. Gangster comic book, I guess. Yeah, that's more the vibe I was getting. And I was a bit more forgiving, but I did kind of shake my head and go, again. Yeah, I was like, come on. I wanna have it. I was like, oh, there it is. Yeah. There's the proverbial back stab. Two of them. It'll be as hallmark. I'm expecting it to the next one. Which we'll go to the end. I actually love the end. I did too. I love, I think it was. I love the setup of the end there. What was his name here? Oh yeah, Surya. Surya. I really enjoyed his, even though it was very small, I enjoyed his performance a lot. I'll tell you what it did. It did exactly what it needed to do. Made me excited for a sequel. As opposed to KGF2, I'm not really excited for the sequel. No. Because that film just disappointed us so bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah.  He's gonna be a fun bad guy. He's almost, he had a lot of quirky stuff that VJ had a little bit. But then he was more unhinged even. Yeah, I felt like for a split second, I thought he was gonna kill, and I don't know what the relationship is, but you got the two brothers standing there from the other film. And I don't know if Rolex is related or not, but he's standing there and I really didn't know if he was just gonna hit him with the ax right there. Yeah, so that's one of the times where I actually appreciate a film that wants to set up a different universe. It did a very good setup for a sequel. You excited as kind of, not really similar to how Marvel did it because they have post-credits scenes and that kind of stuff that get people hyped. Right, right, right. But when you're wanting to hype up the next film at the end of your first film, I thought, one, they did a good job in terms of setting it up. And Surya, who we had our critiques of in that plane movie, that one. Yeah, that was... There was more of the overall film. The overall choice to do to the story what was done. But his look and his acting in that last scene was great. It was phenomenal. It made me very excited for the next one. There's exactly what you want in a end of a film to let you know a sequel's coming and this is the bad guy, come on. Yeah. And you know what I really like about Fahat's character? I feel like he can, with the death of his wife, I feel like he in a sequel could come really unhinged. Yeah. So you're gonna have Kamal, Fafa, Surya. No, no, Surya's gonna be the villain. Yeah, no, no, no, right, yeah. But I mean, were you saying that, like, who else? It could be the big team. Yeah, it's gonna be a team. But I think Kamal could go to the dark side, man. I mean, I think Fahat Basil could go to the dark side. With Surya. With Surya. Ooh. I think he could join him and betray Kamal. I don't know. I feel like he's pretty in because he has a very similar, I also have this hope, his grandsons in San Francisco. Bring this thing to the States, bring it over here. Just, we'd like to see that. Come film over here. Yeah, we'll be your wife, people. Yeah. Also, I just looked at the directors. He's got Kythie too. Oh, I wonder if that, no, I'm sure he's gonna have a, well, it's just gonna be part of the universe. Is the next one, is Kythie too, the follow up to this? Also, cause I feel like, I feel like maybe that's just a temporary title. Yeah. And that will be the third one of this film. That's my suspicion. What's the status, is it in development? I think it's just in post, I mean, not post production. Pre-production, development? Production unknown. Production unknown, okay. Well, thought about the 68.  It's definitely, I appreciate the director's style. I do too. And I like the fact that even though there's some stuff that you might wish would be tighter, or that, wish the length would be cut up, or like there's certain elements that you would should be maybe a little more realistic, he has his own style. And he also presents it very well. And that keeps you engaged. Keeps you engaged and entertained. And so that can, when you do that, it can overcome a lot of flaws in film.  Because then you're just, everything's gonna be heightened.  And I agree.  That's dumb. And I was laughing just a second ago and I'm glad I'm remembering this. One of our favorite moments, and this is the direction and the score, whoever's decision it was to do this. So Fahat goes to the prostitute that Kamal Hassan's character's been going to. And she starts taking them through the steps of what typically happens. And she starts making all of the orgasmic noises. And then they incorporated it into the song. I've never heard orgasms incorporated into a song. That's great. That was brilliant. That was so funny. Shout out. Ooh. Ah. Ooh. Ah. Oh, it was so good. Shout out to Anirud, who just is hidden out of the park with the amount of bangers that he puts out throughout the past couple of years that we've been doing it. Yeah, every single time something comes on the screen with the score, it's like when we're here watching a song and we're like, ooh. Yeah. Every single thing that came on. You're like, ooh, yeah, that's awesome. So that was a lot of fun. Yeah. And I'm glad, I'm glad it was. Yeah, me too. In terms of it wasn't a. Glad we enjoyed it. Disappointment to us than anything. So let us know what you thought about. What? I'm looking for Vikram on the app. Vikram. Vikram soundtrack. There it is. Please have a lot of songs. Please. One, two, three, four. Oh, at least there's one, two, three, four, five. Ah, okay. Darn it. There's only five songs. What is that? I think it's probably the. Ah, that's the other one. So yeah, no, there's, there's, there's, it happens all the time where you don't get the full, I want to find it because Wasted is going to be that song. That other one's going to be a song. That's the title song. I want the score that happens all the time with Indian films. Yeah. I'm going to give out the score. Anyways, let us know what you thought about this film and what should be the next Kamal Hassan film and Vijay Satt about the N-Fafaha. All of them. What should be the next film that we watch? And let us know what you thought about this. Yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. I can't wait for that. Let us know what you thought about the film down below.


The news of the explosion that happened earlier, this one is such a sad one. How are the Kogi people reacting to the explosion? Thank you very much. I always want to take this conversation from the positive perspective rather than the negativity that such an explosion might have caused. But that is not to say that we are underplaying what's actually happened. As a government, we have great respect for the role of law and due process. And the government of Kobi state has been able to move into the issue, directed these agences to unravel the mystery behind that explosion. The operatives of the anti-dominant police are working there all around to ensure that we unravel this situation. Those are the active steps being taken by the state government to make sure that the people of the state are saddened by the glory of today. Alright, so we have different figures of victims of the attack. We have some news outlets reporting three victims. We have some quoting also four victims. I need you to confirm the number of those affected in the blast. We cannot do that right away. We'll have to check what's actually happened there. I am sure by this time tomorrow, only the money will be able to know exactly what the level of casualty is. But what I can tell you is that the people of that area are going about their normal businesses. They are still savoring the fact that the president came and commissioned some life-touching projects in their areas. This attack came few hours before the president's arrival. Don't you think the perpetrators were trying to send a message to the president? Investigators will not have any information behind that. They are the chief of the attackers who will be unraveled by those that are trained to do that. So we'll wait for the outcome of the investigations. So what can you say about the commissioning of the project? The president still commissioned the project even after the situation. Can you list the projects that were commissioned today? No matter what might have happened, it cannot take off the shine of what the governor of the state has been able to do today. Being committed to the thematic areas of his administration, especially as it affects education and healthcare delivery. So today, the president was able to inaugurate the Red Front hospital. The Red Front hospital is the best they can see today because it has facilities that are debuting for the first time in Africa, especially the hyperparic oxygen chamber and so many other things. Then we talk about the school, the GYB Model Science Secondary School, that has been one of the best in the country today, as well as the Maman of the Paris Civil Centre. And they do lots of other projects. He was able to visit so many projects that he wanted to visit, like the Prince Abaka of the University Teaching Hospital, the CUSTED, and so many other projects. World projects between 9th and 10th to about 56 kilometers, newly constructed road and some that have been rehabilitated. So we're wanting to visit as many as possible. We have tried to submit one of our 48 projects, but they picked six because of the schedule of the president as he had to return to Bogyat today. Alright, I would like you to just drop an int on this case. We have Agmakoba adding to court insisting the EFCC. They have a Kugi State case versus the EFCC. Can you shed more light on the case? Yeah, we have cases that are in court concerning some of those things. So we want to try as much as possible to avoid being sub-divided by not talking about cases that are before competent cuts of jurisdiction. But what I would say is that Kugi State as a government, as an entity, is committed to transparency, accountability, and community. That has been the world war. Some of these projects have spoken to our position all along. These projects have truly depicted the government and the government of Kugi State. You are saying that monies belong to the state have been siphoned. Then where is government getting all of these resources to do all of these projects? And a lot of other things like that. Then are you not saying that there are no in-built mechanisms and structures in each government to be able to check corruption? We have all of that in Kugi State. So corruption is a taboo as far as we are concerned in the state. And we are not seeing anybody from doing their work, but they must do it within the ambit of the rule of law and the fundamental rights of the citizen, of the country, and the rights of the government of Kugi State. So we are not going to deal with the particulars of the case. We will argue that in the law courts. All right. Kingsley Fowler is the Commissioner for Information and Communication in Kugi State. Thank you so much for joining us on the news tonight.


Yeah, but what time is it? It's time for the Abbott and Costello show We're on the air for ABC here in Hollywood. Well, what are we waiting for? Let's go with the Abbott and Costello show The Abbott and Costello show produced and transcribed in Hollywood tonight for your listing pleasure with Susan Miller and the music of Maddie Mallet Hold on to your tears fulls for here. They are but Abbott and Luke Costello Stella Costello, what's the matter? She have a certain terrible happen my aunt me got all mixed up She gave her dog her medicine and took the dog's medicine by mistake.  How did you like that date? I fixed up for you last night. Wasn't she a lovely girl? Oh lovely girl brother was that dame not me. Oh, she wasn't so not me No, we were walking down Hollywood Boulevard one knee said to the other. I let you pass first the last time now. Give me a chance Well, you have a good time. Well first. I took her to Cheryl's for dinner that cost $31 Then I bought our box of chocolates that cost $4 Then I took a little movies that cost $2 then I took her home and she slammed the door right my face She didn't that's gratitude for you after all the money. She spent on me That's all running around every night with a different girl is no good someday You're gonna get in trouble not me Abbott when it comes to women.   Mean you should me use me for a model. I'm a model man a model man That's what started the last fight between my aunt man uncle Mike He got mad because that may call them a model man Why did your uncle might get mad? He looked it up in a dictionary and found out that our model is a small imitation of the real thing They really had a fight they fought tooth and nail to the nail. Yes, that may nail not come I could have pushed enough dollars, too What's your excuse this time Lou I couldn't happen when I got the Hollywood and Vine traffic was all snarled up Was there an accident? No some tourists stop for a red light. I see you got another traffic ticket. Hey, yep Castella that's six traffic tickets. You've got this week alone. How do you count for that? Well, Sunday? I couldn't get the car out of the garage Well, what is the ticket for this time double parking my car and it's a $200 fine.  Yeah, Pat. Let me drive your car.  You mean 80 miles an hour.  Why haven't paid a dime on that car for repairs in 10 months? Yeah, that's what the repair man told me If you're personally marks to yourself and tell your brother Pat that he ruined my car When he brought it back the engine was smoking well, it's holding up the smoke What do you want to do to back up never mind that I had some new tire covers in that car, and they're gone Those tire covers were no good at it. I put them on a tire. They didn't last 10 miles Tell you are nimble so Now you made me say a bad word what what are you talking about boulders are damned isn't that a bad word? Never this time to see that my car brought back to my house tonight Oh, I don't think I can bring it back tonight Evan this afternoon I took it out for riding a big truck tried to beat me to the intersection that what now wait a minute wait a minute Don't tell me you ran my car into that truck No, well, thank goodness for that the truck ran into me Asked you the owner of that truck. Who owns it? What is it? What does the truck look like well? It was a big bright red truck with a lot of brass on it.  That's where the fire was It's terrible you wrecked my car then my house burns down. Oh, it's a lucky thing I still have some money in the bank. You ain't got any money in a bank either. What?   I haven't got $20,000.  Oh, yes. I do, but I haven't got $20,000 Well, you have now. What do you mean? Listen me and my partners talked it over and we're willing to pay you $20,000 bucks a ticker off our hands Don't do it Abbott. What do you mean? Abbott, do you realize how bad these guys are stuck? They got your wife Don't pay more than $20,000 to get rid of that old turkey Let me handle this Look, mister Abbott is willing to take his wife back, but it's gonna cost you $30,000. Well, you drive a hard bargain fatso Well, here's a 30,000.  We could have got 40,000 Quiet Castello, Betty darling, do you realize who those two men were? They were bandits. They were bad men. Oh, I thought they were pretty good Mrs. Abbott, how could a little short guy like that kiss a big tall woman like you? I boosted him up on a chair So what if I say how dare you? Castello, how can you suggest that my wife would stoop to kiss a bandit? She didn't stoop Abbott.  Yes one upper and one lower They ought to get together someday for lunch Cut that out castello My wife has had a very tough day our house burned down and she was kidnapped kidnapped by bandits and you're picking on her Why why do you continually insult my wife? I'm a bad And it's all because you wasted your time in school. I didn't waste my time in school Abbott We were so poor we went to school without any shoes and the kid that sat next to me his father was a millionaire I worked hard and he didn't I graduated and he failed and was expelled. I never saw him again until last week Do you know what he is today a bum, huh? No a millionaire's father died and left them all that money I Still I don't know what the future holds for you. Oh, baby. I can help him bud. Hey look at her. Let me see your hand I'll tell you okay My my What an interesting hand. Oh, this line tells me that you have six children. I ain't even married. You'd better get that line fixed Yes, this is your lifeline Oh my you'll live to be 28 years old But I'm 33 now.  Did you notice her rosy red cheeks red cheeks are the sign of good health or glee Well tonight she was healthier on one side than she was on the other Pardon me gentlemen, which one of you is Costello? I am Luke Costello the boys in the Legion have been listening to your program Costello And we have decided to make you a member of the Legion Costello Do you realize what a none of this is how then you accept you will join the Legion? Oh sure, I'll be very very happy to join a legion good be at this address in an hour, and we will make you members. Good. Bye Abbott you ought to be proud of me think of it I'm going to be a member of the legion someday. I may be heard of the legion I may even get to be a big politician. I can see myself now at the meeting at the big four me Lana Turner Harry Lamar and Betty Grable later Wait a minute. What about that Lee the gall and Stalin let them get their own girls We'll return after these messages on radio theater Stay tuned in our next hour. I'll have the conclusion to the Abbott and Costello show plus beyond tomorrow right here on KRLD Welcome back to the KRLD radio theater. I'm your host Bob Gibson Time now for the conclusion to the Abbott and Costello show I may be wrong, but I think it's time for our singing star Susan Miller to sing the lyrics to I may be wrong It's the very first time You came along say I think you're wonderful I think your grand Susan here all aces life to me just isn't mellow Paces are all old legion headquarters office of the captain. Let's go in. Costello. There's a great honor for you Yes, it reminds you the time I went to Harvard. I was in a medical school. You went to Harvard medical school Yes, what were you studying? Nothing. They were studying me Let's go into the Legion office. Ah Haha, I see you have kept your word. You have come to join the Legion Costello I will now swear you in place your left hand over your heart and repeat after me after me Castella the man wants you to repeat after him. I beg your pardon after him No, no, no not after him. I want you to repeat after me Okay, after me Yeah, tell me what he says he wants you to repeat after me He means he wants you to repeat after him make up your mind Do I repeat after you or after him after him after me? Why don't you two guys go out in the alley and fight it out? Never mind that will dispense with the formalities Abbott and Costello. Do you wish to join the Legion? We do good You are now members of the Legion our boat leaves for Morocco tonight I didn't know the American Legion was having a convention in Morocco what American Legion you just joined the foreign Legion get going Dying the foreign Legion here. We are in this this rat infested ship. Look at that cutthroat crew Look at the captain. He's standing on the bridge. Well the captain is supposed to stand on the bridge While it's still in the sailor's mouth The worst thing on this ship is the food Yes, it's pretty bad food Abbott. Yes, sir Today I threw my lunch overboard and the fish threw it back Well, I hope the food will be better when we reach foreign Legion headquarters I heard the food they eat there will make you as tough as nails. What do they eat nails? And the cheap kind penny nails Here comes the captain Hey, you too.  Well, why don't you do it? All right, let me tie your hands to the rail Are you afraid of this guy? Nah, go ahead and play them.   The ship must be going around the horn Look, we're coming into shore ship on our ship. Come on Castella Nobody's watching us. Let's jump overboard and swim to shore quick. You jump first. Here I go Castella you just jumped into the water. How'd you get back on deck here again? Have it. Did you ever back into a swordfish? Come on Stella no one saw us get off that ship now You can only sneak across the desert we may escape from the foreign legions Abbott, I know the best way to escape. We'll take a boat and go up the nylon river Now you mean we'll go up the Nile River. Nile is something that goes on the girl's leg. Well, you go, you know Crossing the desert is dangerous Lou. The heat may affect your mind. You may even see a mirage.  She's crazy without She loved me she come from a city in Turkey. I can't remember the name Istanbul. No, I have it. It's the truth I said Istanbul and I said it's no bullets of truth She was probably Turkish. Did she have an accent? No, but she talked through her nose and She had a cold boy. Could she keep up a running conversation? Where did you meet this girl? She was a dancer in a nightclub. She did the dance of the seven veils Monday night. She would take off the first veil Tuesday She'd take off the second veil Wednesday the third veil and Thursday the fourth veil the place to any business Sunday night. You couldn't get into the joint People couldn't wait till she took off that seventh veil to see the beautiful mink coach. She wore under it Scastella, there's no one around now. We've got to buy a camel and cross the desert I'll ask this guy where we can buy a camel pardon me, sir. Could you tell us where we can buy a camel? Don't bother me, but I just escaped from the foreign legion. I went home My wife ran away with my best friend. They took all my money and burned my house down that happened to me I I would have cut my throat. Why do you think I'm whispering? Abbott, there's a place we're looking for see that sign honest. Hassan used camel dealer But he's cutting his money nine thousand six hundred sixty-eight nine hundred thousand Mr. Hassan, what is it? What is it? Well, you made me lose count. I gotta start over That money later. We want to buy a camel. Oh customers. Oh, there's a bunch of dandy camels over there Do you mind if I carry a couple of them there? What do you want to carry a camel? Why not camels carried us for five years?  Would you like one hump or two one hump with lemon, please? What is that camel over there the one with the six humps? Oh, that's our station wagon model Well, we'll take him we've got to get across the desert. Oh, if you're going across the desert, you'll need a guide Oh guide the shifting sands blot out the trails my guide Abdul. He's the greatest of the desert Abdul can find a trail buried under tons of sand Abdul can find his way through anything Good. We'll hire Abdul now. Sorry. You can't have Abdul now. Why he's lost Come on, we've got to get out of here. We'll cross the desert alone Abbott. We've been on this desert for five days I can't stand it any longer.  My life is worthless. Anyway, we both can't make you have more to live for than I Abbott my beloved friend go on without me. I'll stay here and die No, no, don't say it Abbott don't say it.  You talk me into it. I'll go with it What are you doing out here in the middle of the desert selling the Los Angeles papers boy today give me a lousy corner Castella we only had some towels put over our heads to protect us from the heat Hey, look, there are three beautiful girls coming towards us one is wearing a towel for a scarf grab it Okay, I got it. The other one is wearing a towel for a turbine. Okay, I got it The other one is wearing okay. I got it What's that? She was wearing a towel for a towel That's all of this girl is beautiful. Look. She's wearing a veil over a face.  It's the customs of the country Yes, you'd like to know how do I get through the customs? Castella Castella. We did it. We've crossed the desert look. There's a boat. We're going back to America We've escaped from the foreign legion. Come on Well castella we've been in sea for three days now. I wonder when we get home. I'll ask the captain Hey captain, when does the spoke get to America? This boat is not going to America We are taking prisoners to the foreign legion. That did it ever. I'm diving overboard Castella you just jumped in the water. How'd you get back on deck? Did you ever back into a swordfish? You did that joke before so what I like the joke. I'll do it again. Did you ever? You


I am Sam Vaknin and I am the author of Malignant Self-Love, Narcissism Revisited. There are two crucial differences between healthy self-love and malignant or pathological narcissism. The first difference is in the ability to tell apart reality from fantasy. The second one lies in the ability to empathize and indeed to maturely and fully love another person. The narcissist does not love himself. This is because he has very little true self-to-love. Instead, a monstrous, malignant construct, the false self encroaches upon the narcissist's true self and devours it. The false self is a piece of fiction, a figment, an invention, and yet it body snatches and soul snatches the narcissist until there is nothing left to love. The narcissist loves instead this image that he projects unto others, the false self. He expects other people to reflect this image. In this process of inventing and then projecting and then recovering the false self through the gaze of other people, this process reassures the narcissist of both the objective existence of the false self and of the boundaries of his own ego. It blurs all distinctions between reality and fantasy. The false self leads to false assumptions, into a contorted personal narrative. It leads to a false worldview, into a grandiose inflated sense of being. These grandiose fantasies are rarely grounded in real achievements or merit. The narcissist's feeling of entitlement is all pervasive, demanding and aggressive. It easily deteriorates into open, verbal, psychological and physical abuse of others. Contitlement breeds aggression, but this entitlement is not grounded in reality. It is fantastic. It is only in the narcissist's head and in the personal mythology that he constructs. Maintaining a distinction between what we are really and what we dream of becoming, knowing our limits, our advantages and faults, and having a sense of true, realistic accomplishments in our life, all these are of paramount importance in the establishment and maintenance of our self-esteem, our sense of self-worth and self-confidence. The narcissist lacks all these, hence his addiction to narcissistic supply. Reliant as the narcissist is on outside judgment and on the provision of narcissistic supply, the narcissist feels miserably inferior and dependent. He rebels against this degrading state of things by escaping into a world of make-belief, daydreaming, pretensions and delusions of grandeur. The narcissist knows little about himself and finds what he knows to be abhorrent, unacceptable and repulsive. Our experience of what it is like to be human, of our very humanity or humanness, depends largely on our self-knowledge and on our experience of ourselves. In other words, only through being himself and through experiencing his self can a human being fully appreciate the humanity or humanness of others. The narcissist has precious little experience of his self, instead he lives in an invented world of his own design where he is a fictitious figure in a grandiose script. The narcissist therefore possesses no tools to enable him to cope with other human beings, to share their emotions, to put himself in their place, to empathize and of course to love them. He has no instruments, he doesn't have the apparatus required for the emotion of love. Love is a demanding task of interrelating, interpersonal space and the narcissist is not equipped to traverse this space and connect with another human being. The narcissist just does not know what it means and what it is to be human. He is a predator, repaciously preying on others for the satisfaction of his narcissistic cravings and appetites. He seeks relentlessly, admiration, adoration, applause, affirmation and attention, is like a heat-seeking missile. Humans are merely narcissistic sources of supply and he overvalues, idealizes or devalues and discards them according to their contributions to this end of provision of narcissistic supply. Self-love is a precondition for the experience and expression of mature love. One cannot truly love someone else if one does not first love one's true self. If we had never loved ourselves, we had never experienced unconditional love and if we had never experienced unconditional love, we do not know how to love, we are incapable of loving others. If we keep living like the narcissist does in a world of fantasy, how can we notice the very real people around us who ask for our love and who deserve it? The narcissist wants to love. In his rare moments of self-awareness, the narcissist feels ego-dystonic. He is unhappy with this situation and with his relationships with others. This is his predicament. The narcissist's sentence to isolation, precisely because his need for other people, is so great and all engulfing and all consuming.