And Daniel Radcliffe as well, who's obviously like Harry Potter. Especially when you're filming Dotmite because there's so many fans of the show.  I think I've been working on it now for a decade. The first time I knocked on the door, he literally opened the door and he had his dressing and he'd bring, we're mourning. All right, mate, how you doing?  Jules, how are you, brother? Very good, mate. I feel, I actually feel like I'm saying a little bit of real viking.  Yeah, I mean, it kind of goes back that way. So I've got some Scottish and Irish. So I'm assuming that with the Scottish ancestry, it's, it came from that because, you know, everywhere up in, you know, Northumbria, obviously got raided and I'm probably a product of that, which I'm happy to, you know, but he says whilst drinking out of Thor's hammer as a cup of tea. Well, funnily enough, you're talking to a viking, too. Oh, awesome. Yeah, it's those blue eyes.  We've we've we made up the lower cast of the Viking culture. So Sega, Sega means man of the sea. Oh, wow. Which is, you know, also viking, if you want to, if you want to look at it that way. So that's the direct interpretation of that name. So that's cool. Yes. And they were good at the old seafaring, weren't they? They had methods that we probably don't even on methods of navigation that we don't even understand today. Yeah. Yeah. And the ship's pretty cool as well. So that was one of the good things about filming vikings was that I actually got to row properly, you know, so it was like, you know, it's being on a real viking launch ship was was pretty amazing. Yes. And. OK, question then, because I'll watch the documentary. So the vikings are there, they obviously have the sail up when when they when they've got a wind of as a good sailors always do. But when there's no wind and they get on the oars, don't they? And they they will row across the North Sea.  That's correct. Yeah. And when it's time to sleep, they just lie down on the deck and sleep. Yeah, that's it. There's no room for anything else. So there's no room for luxuries.  So that would be it. And if it if it was wet, you set with a wet blanket, you know. So I can't imagine there was much room in those chests because there's no room on board, really.  And that's why they were so adaptable because they could they could move about and they could go down rivers and, you know, stuff like that. So, you know, manoeuvra and when they got to a to a, you know, like a waterfall or rap is that they they pick the boat up and put it on their shoulders and carry it, wouldn't they? I'm not sure whether that is historically correct. I'd have to I'd have to check that. But that would be pretty cool if it did. So I know that they showed it in Vikings with flokey using winches and stuff like that. So but, yeah, I did, you know, the bit where they're they're pulling them across logs. I know I know they've done that. So but, yeah, picking them up. Well, not too short, but that depends on the size of the crew. So you're in. We've just discussed this earlier, won't we Vikings Valhalla? Yeah, that's a new one. It comes out 2022 now, which is a shame, because I think that's delayed by covid. Yeah, not. So I think they were they were aiming for like winter 2021, but it's looking at 2022 now. So hopefully they'll crack on and, you know, and get out there. Is that the same production company that made Vikings? Yeah, 100 percent. So it's it's the same same director. The the the writer of Die Hard, Jeb Stuart, which is pretty cool. So a lot of kudos there. So anyone that can write the best Christmas movie of all time is is is all right on my books. And which one is that? The writer of Die Hard. So sorry, Die Hard. Yes, with Bruce Willis. Is that right? Yeah. God, memory gets a bit hazy, doesn't it? When when you look back and think die, that came out.  Oh, my God, right. OK, so this would be really bad at a pub quiz right now, wouldn't I? Well, both would. So let's have a look. Die Hard, that must have been. Well, 88, 89, maybe. I don't know. I've got my phone right as you've got your computer with both usually. So we could we could cheat and look it up. Yeah, that'll be it now. That'll be the subject of the podcast. That that that would just be correct. We'll all talk about Bruce Bruce Willis instead of Jules. Well, that's it. It's done by me. It's a long story. I don't think my longevity as a podcast host would be that. You know, I don't think I'd get any more guests. But hey, let's talk about Penitent because you played Vladimir Berbatov, Barbatov, but that was close. There we go. And I I was. Deeply honoured to be able to be invited to the red carpet opening of Penitent by Martin Webster, the wonderful producer. Oh, there we go. Die Hard, 1988, I was spot on the money. My God, that was before I was born. So, yeah, that wasn't a bad jet. So I'm still all right with the with the pub quiz lot then. Yeah, I'm happy now. And I haven't ruined your podcast. And we'll we'll we'll we'll come on on to the pub quiz because that featured in Fisherman's Friends, didn't it? Oh, yeah, it did go another love love that film. Absolutely loved it. And of course, it's not far from us. Filmed down in Cornwall. And I think we'll we'll we'll come on to that. But yes, so Penitent. I'm just trying to get it straight in. My ageing memory. Were you one of the guys that that shot the soldiers outside of the. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So so I played I played a general Barbatov. So and yeah, he's a bit of a nasty guy. Like, you know, he's responsible for the ethnic ethnic cleansing and stuff like that. So and yeah. So I I shot the civilians in the first scenes. And then this is massive spoilers, isn't it? And then I wasn't very nice to the NATO forces, the United Nations forces. So and I tell you what, Jules, right? Something changed in me when I become a father, right? I guess it does all of us. Yeah, me too. That scene with the little boy. God, I'm just getting upset thinking about it to think that that really went on. Yeah, yeah, that that that's that particular scene stayed with me for longer than most scenes because it involved a child. I think that that stuck with me for like two or three weeks. It was horrible.  But, you know, Hollywood tends to hide these realities from us, don't they? And it's it's Martin Martin Webster doesn't. No, which is why we like working together. We like to just get the stuff out there. And the thing is war is brutal, you know? And the film is about PTSD. So it wouldn't have made any sense or had any impact unless.  You know, far worse things happen in war than what I, you know, did as an actor in those scenes. So we just wanted to affect people and get the audience on our side and make them hate me, which is which is interesting. And also make the characters hate me and give them a reason to have PTSD. But it all stuck with me as a person for a long time afterwards. I was I was having nightmares for like at least two or three weeks. After doing that scene, I don't think it was as brutal in the film as it was when we filmed it, because when we filmed it, we actually had a squib, which is a miniature explosive device with full of blood. So and it actually shoots out everywhere. So so when I pulled the trigger, bang, it actually a squib went off.  And then the next thing I'm a huge gal of blood explodes from out of their back. You know, so I couldn't avoid my brain trying to make reality of that. So, you know, so that was that was that's what stayed with me. It's the fact that I still did the actions and saw the reaction. So it's a really weird thing, because I've done lots and lots of fight scenes in films.  I suppose this is one of the first ones that had involved a child, you know, so I couldn't I couldn't I just I'm not afraid of anything. I think my history shows that. But yeah, I watched it the first time on, you know, on on on the computer after I think Martin sent me a copy. And then at the premiere, I just looked down at the ground. I it's just too awful. Yeah. Oh, gosh. No, no, I mean, I'm not saying the film was awful. I'm just saying that I just I'm with you. I don't need to watch this again and just look down for a minute until it was over and then I look back up. I'm glad I'm kind of glad they left the blood out in a way. But I think it now I don't know. I would like to see an edit with with that backing because that was the shocking thing for me is seeing that visual side of it. Of that, you know, but it kind of it cut it cuts before the blood. So which still has impact and doesn't make it. You know, like some films films are gory for the sake of the gore. Yeah. So and I'm glad that you're saying it still had the same amount of impact with that. Got it. It was a bit as well. I noticed the second time that I didn't. Did I remember writing in when I watched at the premiere when these guys are being executed, these friends at home there are UN peacekeepers, basically. And the film is set in Bosnia during the Troubles. Was it also that the young boy was then running across the cornfield? Yeah. So he had like a double helping of traumatic. Yeah. So how Barbatov works is whenever he commits any kind of atrocities, he always leaves a witness because he wants to create his own urban legend. You know, so he wants he wants the people to fear him. So without a witness to something that he's done that's really bad. Who's defeat, you know, how is that that that myth meant to then perpetuate, you know?  Enjoys that fact that he's going to he's going to leave somebody alive. And, you know, so his his men are like dogs. They want to they want to just kill everything. But he's the logical one. He's the dangerous one. I think that's kind of an old military tactic, isn't it?  Yeah, it's kind of it's kind of old school as well. For me growing up, I think. So if if, you know, because I had interesting. Experience growing up where I grew up in a really rough area.  So whenever something occurred, you'd want as many people to witness it as possible as a form of defense, like, you know, for yourself.  So so that was interesting. So yeah, I've got I draw on with with the more brutal characters.  Yeah, I feel free to tell I mean, I always say to my guests, you know, although I love these chants, but essentially it's for the people watching at home that they never, you know, get a lot because I'm ex-military, I get a lot of military guests and and they lean towards the humble, if you know what I mean.  And it's like, no, it's the other way around. It's just just if you've got stuff that people won't have experienced. It's fascinating to hear. Oh, colourfuls enough to use. Are you able to say what part of the country you can I can't picture your accent? Oh, I grew up in Kent and South London. But then I've moved to the West country. In my 20s, and I'm now in Cornwall. And I suppose that working in this industry, you kind of you want to lose the guttural side of your native accent.  But it has. This is my posh voice now. So I mean, I'm in the same boat. I was born in Kent, Southeast London. Yeah. And then I moved to the West country, but I was about six when we moved down. Oh, no, it might actually have been five. And then there was this weird thing that when we started to become hairy teenagers, when we're a comprehensive, all these kind of lads you'd grown up with started to take on this weird accent. Here we go. Yeah, get on in it. Yeah. Yeah.  So no. But I will say, having lived in the Southwest now, you know, best part of well, I've lived there was one point in my life. I'd lived most of it abroad, funny enough. But now I think I've lived most of it in the Southwest. And there is just a natural tendency to pick up on the local. Actually, not I'm saying anything wrong with that. But people say, my God, you sound like so Janna. Yeah, I'm a sponge for accents. I find it fascinating. So and a lot of the time. I think if I'm if I'm out and I'm meeting a lot of people, new people and I find something they've just said, like really quite quaint or just intriguing or just it tweaks my ear bone. I'll end up repeating it or whatever. So people think I'm taking the mickey out of them, but I'm not. I'm genuinely fascinated by the fact that they pronounce words different, you know, so and it's pretty much on where they come from.  You know, so, you know, I've been doing a lot of American and dialects and stuff like that. So I'm fascinated by the way they change the words and stuff like that. But even regionally as well here in this country, we change so many words. And, you know, from Kent. The Kent is trying is quite kind of cockney, but they speak really fast. So they'll put they'll say four words in the space of like, you know, one word. So, you know, but it's a bit it's a bit like down here. So when I first moved down and people saying, well, some of the phrases are through me. I'm moving from South London to here through me anyway, because people were saying good morning to me. And I was like, is this PG or am I am I swearing in this? What's the deal? As it comes, it's fine.  Who's that? I don't know you. It's just really weird. And now I'm one of them going, morning, morning. All right, like to complete strangers is really funny. So it's funny when you take it back home.  And so I've still got family in the Medway towns, which that's a colourful area. So it's partly responsible for my colourful past. And so you're if you walk in home from, you know, being out with one a.m., you'll get one, like, really happy Medway. I walk in home or staggering. And as you're walking past it, but I made you have a good diet. And all that. Yeah, where you been? And then, yeah, yeah, yeah, just be lucky. And then you part ways. And then the next bloke that walks past because I've now adopted this West Country attitude that where I say hello to everyone. So the next bloke that walks past, I'm in that boat where I've just had a little, a little conflab with a guy really friendly, like, a little bit drunk like me. And I'm like, what are you doing?  And then and then literally wants to fight you. It's so. So, yeah, it's funny. I've kind of lost a bit of my streetwisiness, I think. And I'm a little bit more innocent since moving to the West Country, because everyone's everyone's just they're not guarded as much, you know, as they are in big cities. Yeah, well, I live in the city, so I have to be honest, I have to fight my temper sometimes when I'm out running. Yeah. And it's the morning. So there's not many people around. So there's someone at six, seven o'clock, say, walking to work and you come up and you're like, and they're just like that. And and it, it, it, it, you know, this is the example that that's been set for the next generation, you know, no, no community, no love, no empathy, no fire, you know, morning, and it's not everybody. Of course, it's not, but it is a lot of people now. Yeah, that's why I choose to live rural so that I know my neighbours, you know, stuff like this. And there I do like that sense of community. So I don't think I'd live in a city again. I'm happy to work in them. And, you know, I enjoy visiting different cities and stuff like that. But, you know, now I've now I've lived in a country for for quite a few years. I don't think I could ever change it.  But but the downside to living where I live is you get you get a lot of tourists. So in the summer, especially with. Covid, all the all the locals are just playing hide from the tourists. So yeah, I'm familiar with it all. You know, let's not go on about that. But yeah, I mean, we we couldn't book anywhere. Well, obviously, no one could go abroad. So that was a no no go around. I don't know if I'll ever be allowed abroad again. Actually, I've already been kicked off one expedition that I should literally be on as we speak in the Sahara. Right. For for. Can we say, you know, for exercising my freedom to choose? Right. But so we ended up camping in Cornwall for a week, which is I have no problem with that, except the zip on our tent bust on the first days to that.  I get it. Well, what I wanted to ask you is. One thing I love not so much when you hear a professional. Go. I've forgotten what was it when you copy people's voices? What's that? And you emulate?  Oh, yeah. We've both had a senior moment. So was it Michael? How might your word when it used to be? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Impressionist. Impressionist. Yes. I'm so a painter. When you see the professional or, you know, the entertainers on Tally, it's it's fascinating. But for me, it's when your mate does it and he's got it brilliantly. And you're like, yes. And obviously in your business, you have to be able to take on accents and, you know, I'm not I'm not one I'm happy with accents, but I tend to I tend to have like, you know, do them when I'm in the shoot or in that mode. So they're all still there. But I don't tend to be able to just pull them out my pocket like for to do an impression of someone, etc, etc. But because I'm kind of a method in character actor. I just I find an accent for that individual character that I'm playing and then just keep hold of it. And then I tend to stored in my way afterwards. I just forget about them. So it's like, so yeah, I'm I'm not I get asked, I'll do this accent to that accent. And it's like, I've got a date. It's not how I work. So it's weird. So I can, you know, I can learn an accent in a day. Um, so I had to do Northern Irish for for an audition and I've never done it. But it's like that typical actor thing where you think, well, I'm good at accent. So I can do a general Irish, but I hadn't done nor a large. So I write it down and then then ended up in front of a casting director. And I had 24 hours. I was like, oh, shit, I've got to learn Northern Irish in 24 hours. So so I started working on that. And I actually really enjoyed it. It's a great accent to do. So so I went to the audition and then I turned up and to my horror, the casting director was Irish.  So it was it was a weird one. So I did it's one of the only times I asked for feedback on the accent because I'd learned in 24 hours that she was Irish.  So can you give us a you up for giving us a demo? No, that's the thing I don't do. I don't do the demos. It's like, you know, it's like I'd have to. Yeah, I'd have to revisit.  So because I was in Doc Martin and Poll Dark and things like that. And Fisherman's friends that were filmed down here. So and that that's funny, because when you go, I've been up for when I did the script read for Poll Dark. So so I sat at the table with all of the actors. And we were reading episodes one and two of Poll Dark, I think. So it was pretty cool to be sat around the table with some acting royalty. And so I was quite excited because the scripts were like this, like, you know, episode one and two is like quite a few hours of dialogue. And it's really enjoyable to to. Put faces to the dialogue. And I was thinking, you know, some people are using accents. Some people aren't. And I was like, no, I'm definitely going Cornish for this, you know? So so I did my accent and I had a nice compliment afterwards because a couple of the actors came up and said, oh, so you're the you're the proper Cornish man then. No. And I was like, no, no. I was born in Kent and grew up in South London. You know, so I was like, but thanks, you know, so. But, you know, I tend to to learn and forget. And then I store them away in a memory box somewhere. And then once I get another character on the pages dialogue, that's when it will click back on again. There we go. Right. Back in the room. So tell us, because this is the stuff that fascinates me. And I should say for our friends at home, Jules and I are going to be starring together in a film. OK, I'm I might have a bit part. But I'm going to I'm going to dine out on it, believe me. But before we come on to that, how is it? How is it? How do you find it learning lines? And when you're delivering them on set, isn't it kind of a leeway? If if you get a word wrong and or does the director jump in and go, no, you should have said this or it all depends on the shoot. So so learning lines will I'll do them in order. So learning lines is just a life skill. It's just something that you just do. You know, it just it's like anything like, you know, you were in the military that there would have been things that you would have learned where you'd have first looked at and thought, God, I'm never going to be able to do that. And then you can put a sack on your head and, you know, and and do it in 30 seconds, you know, and that sounds really bad. I'm talking about dismantling and putting together weapons, you know, yeah, that was that was what was in my head from from my own experiences, you know, is the blind dismantling and putting back putting the stuff together again. Learning lines was like that for me. It's like, first of all, it was intimidating, especially when you get pages and pages of dialogue, you know, but but everything is shot in blocks. So you don't have to learn. The whole script, it's nice to to know the whole script and and read through it and become familiar with it from a performance perspective with your character work so that you know how you're going to feel at certain times. But and, you know, the subtleties and nuances you can kind of put in there or start thinking about. But learning lines was tough and has become easier over the years. But I'm sure that as my years advance, it's going to become tougher again because I've heard that, you know, from some of the older actors that they've had to use different techniques because they just can't retain it in their memory like they used to. So they've had like ear plugs in or stuff, you know, stuff like that with people saying the lines to them before they deliver it.  And it was interesting to find out what techniques they had, because when you watch them performing after you, I'm not going to say any names because, you know, this was a private conversation with somebody that I was working with. But when you watch them performing, you can't you can't see it. So as long as they're still delivering their job and doing their job and a capable of doing a job, no matter how, what techniques they're using to achieve that storytelling mode. So what is like, you know, so. So, but yeah. So I'm probably at the peak of learning lines. Now, I don't have a problem with it, but the next thing is that the downward decline where I'm, you know, having to write them on my hand or something. OK, so if you ever see me acting or doing that, you'll know what I'm doing. So, yeah, that was the I don't want to say shame, but that was a sort of downfall of Parkinson, wasn't it? Was you could see when he couldn't remember his questions and he knows obviously a screen that they put on the. Yeah, so every time he, you know, his guest is speaking, he's he's looking down like that to read the next question. And yeah, yes. Yeah, there's a lot of that you can get. You can get stuff like, you know, I can't remember what they called actually because I don't use them, but where the words just scroll up and stuff. So there's bits and pieces. But obviously that's not what. Most filmmakers would like or need.  Get a lot of different egos in the film industry and stuff like that and a lot of different behavior types. You know, I tend to try and behave myself. So but I also engage my mouth before my brain sometimes. So I have to have to have to watch myself as well. So but when it comes down to. The strictness of the script or the tightness of it. Some filmmakers really like it. When you they'll give you freedom to play with the character, you know, because you end up knowing the character more than they do because it originally the writers have written some some people write something that they would describe as a guide to the character and they're happy with the actor then going on to embellish, you know, which which is what I like to do with some of the the bad type characters, you know, the nasty guys because I'm I'm quite method as well. So I tend to let a little bit of that character inhabit me. And I enjoy doing that, apart from when it gives me PTSD. So that's the danger of that as well. Like when you end up taking your work home with you and you didn't really mean to. So but some of them are so strict. They have a script supervisor who we literally or most of them do have a script supervisor. They'll analyze every word and it won't be the director. If you've messed up on one tiny word, it'll be the script supervisor that comes over and just whispers in your ear or it depending on the script supervisor, a nice one will come and whisper in your ear. So one that's not so what's the word? It doesn't have a good bedside manner. We'll show it across the studio at you. So you know what?   So but I think my favourite is somewhere in between. I like to know that they've got my back, the script supervisor, but also like to and I don't do this often. But if you've got if you're in that mode and you really know your character, you really know how you want to portray him and the director and writers are happy with your portrayal of that. There's sometimes in a scene where you're like, what character wouldn't do that? He wouldn't put up with that. He wouldn't be stood there silent.  It's like, but just occasionally there'll be something where you're like, oh, I wouldn't I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't say that or I would be saying something right now or that would make me feel this way. So I'd react in that way. And it is nice to have that flexibility to be able to just have a quiet word with the writer and director and say, oh, look, do you know what? There's no way that this guy with the temper that he's got would stand there and take that without actually getting back in their face or doing something.  But I'm all about the story. That's all I care about.  It's just it's the story.  And that that's all it's about. I don't want anything to drag people out of that story. I want to, you know, create something kind of compelling and stuff like that. So so, yeah, it is super strict sometimes. And other times it's completely flexible. Like working with my website is he's completely flexible.    But because that in Penitent, because there's not a lot of blood shown, my character smokes cigarettes. And if you notice that whenever he's smoking a cigarette, he's he's rolling up a cigarette. And whenever he does something nasty, or he's about to do something nasty, he's smoking a cigarette.   It's just things like that. That was me. And I just like the contrast of the red and white and that, you know, the fact that he's got blood on his hands. So, so, yeah, that's and then Martin picked up on that of the cigarette piece, because when someone was waiting to go into a meeting, one of the other characters, he spied up a cigarette. And I knew it was because of me smoking. I was like, that would have been because he filmed that when I wasn't there. And then I like, I really like that because he picked up on my, you know, idea and then mirrored it. I like mirroring in movies.  And a little Easter eggs in films that, you know, you might only pick up on the second or third time or you might not pick up at all. But yeah, I like the subtle nuances of moviemaking. Oh, my favorite is the scene changes in Highlander where one minute he's in the lake and it goes down under water and then Yeah, I remember that vividly. I was worried because I've watched it for a long time. But yeah, I love that movie. Yeah. And it cuts to his apartment in New York and it's a fit and he comes up and it's a fish tank. Yeah. And it's got, it's just so, so.  Like I want to watch it again now. So I had a huge post from my war of a Highlander. So I've got, I think, I think I've got some past life experiences like Larkin Drawn as well. Yes. How is it then when you film scenes out of the time sequence? Is that just something as a profession? You just, you just do it because you're acting? Or is it nice to do them in sequence? It is lovely to do them in sequence, but you don't often get that, that luxury. So yeah, it does, it does weird you out because you have to be like, it's not, it's not a fact. I think for me personally, it's how I felt at that particular point. So it's all about feelings. It's like, right, what's happened if I'm, if I'm filming a scene, you know, like two episodes in the future? It's like, right, how am I going to feel what's happened? And then, but, but you also have to look at all the other cast members, especially on a, you know, a thing with lots of characters and go, right, how does he feel about that person, that person, that person, that person? So that, you know, you've got that, that continuity of emotion still there. And I think that's, that's the thing that's most difficult. So I don't know. I don't know how other people deal with it because I'm not other people, but maybe I'm overthinking, but because I'm so respectful of the story, I just want to make sure that I'm reacting to everybody correctly, based on the timeline, you know, of where it's at. So I could close my curtains so that you could see. So I'm not going to say that. You might want to draw them a bit. But they're all, they're appalling. We don't care about that. We draw our strength from the universe on this podcast and not, not the curtains. I hope that was a, that was a. There we go. A good, a good to test our shots of me.  A bit of progol harm. So yeah, on the subject of films. What, what's been your inspiration? What one, what, what, what are your favorite films? Oh my God, I like, I'm very much into the Coen Brothers movies. And I'm very much into like Tarantino-esque stuff. You know, I like complex characters. So and looking like I do, I play, I am a character actor. So I've kept this look now for 12 years because I don't get boring jobs. I don't get the office worker job, you know, and stuff, stuff like that. So I get, I get, you know, much more fun stuff. So I really love like stuff like Fargo, the movie and the, and the series. Oh, Brother Where Art there was absolutely fantastic. So, you know, obviously Pulp Fiction and stuff like that. Fear and Loving in Las Vegas, absolutely phenomenal. So I like, yeah, I like, I like complex characters and I like, I like really, really clever dialogues. You know, so and yeah, yeah. So the reservoir dogs had a good dialogue, didn't it? Oh, it's fantastic. I went to the cinema to watch that. So I remember it vividly like, I think that was one of the first movies that I saw when I, when I moved to Devon. So I went out to Exeter and it was like a proper day out, you know, because living on the South Coast and it was, so one of the times where you didn't get tend to go to the cinema much, you know. So when you did, it was, it was a thing, you know. So it's like, you know, I think we, we were taking things like that for granted. Pre, you know, two years ago. Yeah. Oh, you know, because it's, because it's all there, but I haven't been to the cinema such a long time, apart from watching film premieres and stuff like that. That's a much more smaller, intimate thing. Yeah. And I'll tell you my reservoir dog story. Go on then. It's a short one. You've got two years, so I'm assuming you're all right. Yes. At this moment in time. Yeah. So yeah, I rocked off at the cinema back when it came out and we're all going to watch, I don't know, it's something like Lassie the movie or something really, really benign, might have been Superman or something, right? And the cube was around the block and then the cinema attendant came out, went, sorry, folks, cinema's full. We've got this new film, Reservoir Dogs, showing if anyone's in. So the whole queue went into Reservoir Dogs thinking, you know, they were all set up for watching, I don't know, Bambi or whatever it was. Kind of would have loved that. But I didn't know anything about Reservoir Dogs or Tarantino at the time. So I'm someone that doesn't, I don't like watching movie trailers. I like just going in fresh. So that would have been, that would have been totally my thing.  Everyone's like, this ain't Bambi. Oh man. I've been desensitised, I think. I think we all have because stuff has got gorier and gorier and gorier and everyone just sits through it. You know, it's like, take Walking Dead, for instance. You know, it's like we're watching bodies getting torn in half and like guts exploding everywhere. That would have made me want to puke when I was a teenager, you know.  I've gone the other way, funny enough, because I'm getting quite spiritual in my old age and my body physically reacts differently to that stuff now. Right. Like I can't, I choose not to watch horrors because I just think there's so much like lovely stuff to, you know, I'm not, I'm not, it's not that I'm soft or anything. It's just, I don't want to see children getting hurt and, you know, I mean... Yeah, yeah, it depends on the subject, you know, you know, so yeah, I'm with you on that one. It's just funny, it's just something that's like changing inside when that's all... Indifferent in Penitent because it was part of the, you know, the whole film hinged on a scene like that, didn't it? But when it's just a film that's just dedicated to being nasty, I'm just like, but I'm a bit done with all that stuff now. Yeah, that's why I like dialogue driven stuff, you know. There is a lot of violence in the movies that I watch, but it's based around dialogue and the violence is necessary, it's not gratuitous. So, you know, it's like, but yeah, me putting together a list of films would be tricky, you know, because I like so much, you know. But I do like, I do like time periods as well. I very much like that late 80s time period, you know. So, you know, we've stuff like that with Highland and Blade Runner and things that I have. First flood? Yeah, wow. Okay. Probably one of my favourites. I like First Blood. I like the film The Beach because I absolutely love the book and I was... Yeah, that's fantastic movie. ...travelling in Thailand at the time. One question I've always wanted to ask, in the original Vikings with Travis Fimle, obviously... Yeah. Why did they adopt the accent that they... I mean, I've lived in Scandinavia for four years and obviously, you know, there's a different time period, but when they speak English, like, oh, hello. It's like this dance, like the scientists on the Muppet show. But the Travis Fimle adopted... It was genius. It's real, like, he's moving his eyes, he's got these really sort of what we call in the Marine, scary eyes. Was there any reason for... Were they trying to be, period, or did they just go with this slightly different version of the Norsht accent? I think because the cast are international, so you've got, you know, lots of different people from lots of different countries. So I think they may have adopted a faux Scandi accent so that everybody could do it. And maybe the only people that were insulted were people from those native countries having to do a faux version of their own accent.  Yeah, of course. So and I think also what happens with the American market is they want everything to be understandable in the state. So they might have just made the accent a little bit softer so they could be understood to, you know, the USA and non-English speakers, you know? So which might have struggled with that accent. But I mean, personally, I love the accent in... Oh, God, the Norseman. Have you seen that? I have that star sum. Oh, no, no, the TV series, the comedy. Oh, OK, I'm sorry. I thought you meant that film. And it had the star from that football hooligan film. Was it Green? Green Street, yeah. Was it Green Street? I'm a really, really good actor. I've been, I was actually chatting with him on Twitter at one stage. Leavart, no. I can't remember. Apologies, but it will come to me. Yeah, we'll have to Google it now. Yeah, but no, he did a film called... I'm pretty sure it's called The Norseman and he had a star enrolling it. I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna... You need to watch the comedy stuff. Norseman, it's on Netflix. It's really funny. I'm gonna write it down. Yeah, it's not child-friendly at all. OK, and what about... But you're like their accent is very sing-songy. So... I've got some Green Street's not coming up for some reason. It was cool. There's something hooligans like, wouldn't it? Yeah, but that's a later one, 2009. This was the one, it stars Mati who got, allegedly got out of the industry because he said the... Well, let's just say he thought there's some kiddie stuff in... We're talking Hollywood now. What's the chap's name? It was in the Hobbit. Can't remember. Oh, yeah, I know. But, yeah. Leo, Leo, isn't it? His name's Leo. Can't remember his surname, but he was played a blinder in that football film. Yeah, sorry, we're going off track. How is it just for those of us who haven't experienced it? How is it rocking up on set and you've got like an iconic figure there from a British film or American TV or whatever it might be? Do they tend to be normal? Do you get some prima donnas? Yeah, everyone's different, you know? Everyone's completely different.  So, but yeah, I've worked with talking of reservoir dogs. I've worked with Steve Basimi, Mr. Pink, so... And that was what was that, two years ago now. I did an American TV show called Miracle Workers and Daniel Radcliffe as well, who's obviously like Harry Potter. And I just, I had a riot. It was awesome. So Dan's amazing to watch. He's one of these guys you ask about scripts and things like that. I think he's the sort of character actor literally he has the skills, I mean he's 20 years younger than me probably.  Like, you know, it doesn't just know that block of scenes.  Steve Basimi was too cool for school really. So he was pretty laid back. He just nailed his part.    Yes, massively. And I remember Steve Basimi being interviewed. I don't know if it was the film Meteor, I can't remember, it was the film where they went up to an asteroid and they had to, they were oil drillers and they had to drill into it to save the planet. It was, it might have been that. It might have been the Nicholas Cage one where the Con Air. But the interviewer said, so Steve, you know, I bet you like really do a lot of research before these films and you know, they get into character and learn the script. And he said, oh, oh yeah, oh yeah, months, months. You're not given months, you're not given months. No, it depends on the project, how big you are as an actor, I suppose. You know, it's like some people would be tied in months before, but it doesn't happen often. But it has happened to me recently, I've been tied into a couple of films that don't start filming for like 18 months. So, you know, they're really, you know, my name's tied to the production and you know, but this is really, really early on in pre-production. But the thing is, it's like, if you, if I was to invest a lot of my time in research in the character and blah, blah, blah, blah, by the time we get to filming, you know, the script might have changed and the character might have changed anyway.    So, and if there was a certain rhythm or a certain song, I'd say that you've got to play it at least 36 times to lodge it in your muscle memory before you can then, you know, so, and I use, I use that as a guide to learning scripts as well. It's like, you know, it's like, so, and I'm not, you know, lodging it in my actual muscles, I'm lodging it in my brain, but then some of the scenes might be physical. So, you've got movement to go with that as well, and, you know, so, which is another thing on top of talking, you've got to move. So, what, you know, it's like, but especially with like complicated fight scenes with dialogue in between, you've got a lot to remember. So, and on that, I forgot the original question. Yeah, no, I was going to come on to what's it actually like being on set, and I guess different productions have a different budget and a different sort of standard of comfort or VIP service. Can you give us an idea about that? I mean, do you just, would, I don't know, would, by the way, guys, Leo Gregory would love to chat with him on the podcast, and it was Elijah Wood with the names, my gray man. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I had the same problem. I could see his face, I love Elijah Wood's work, but yeah, we're talking about so much, it's like other things get pushed out your brain. I'm like Homer Simpson, you push one bit of info in, it pushes something else out. So, you know. I mean, I'll give you an example. My friend was starred, not starred, but he had a role in Save and Private Ryan. Right. And he was chatting to him, and he said one of the, like the leading act, you know, one of the ones, the cameras on all, he said he was just high on Coke all the time, and I just get this image of like, what do you have like your trailer? Is this guy going back, having a beer, snorting a few lines, you know, reading it, just, how does it... Yeah, I've not, I've been on over 150 sets, and I've never seen cocaine on the, you know, lifts of craft services. Like, you know, you'd be lucky if you get like, a decent sandwich, decent cup of coffee, you know. No, the catering's fantastic on movies, like, you know, I don't work for the pay, I just work for the food, you know. But personally, I'm not a Coke user, so that wouldn't excite me. It would amuse me. Yeah, well, we had the producer of Dukes of Hazard on the show. Yeah. One of my favourite series as a kid. Yeah, I love that, that's great. And, but it all came out that a lot of that went on with the cast and crew. You don't realise that when you're, was it 10 years old or something? Yeah, I've no doubt. I mean, the thing is, American productions, that some of their shooting regimes are brutal. So you need something to keep you awake. So I suppose that's just, you know, some people's weapon of choice, but not mine personally. But I mean, they can work in like 17 hours, you know. So. What do you do? Do you have like a, like a, I mean, if you're in the middle of nowhere, do they bring a caravan? Yeah, yeah.  So, and I don't have caffeine much at all. So I'll have, you know, two or three cups of tea a week and stuff like that.  So. Don't you do caffeine? That sounds... That's just a lifestyle choice, you know. So I know it's, but it's good to know because I don't do it when I actually do need to pick me up. Coffee just literally sends me through the roof. So which is great. So because I did a shoot in Milan this year and their coffee over there is crazy. I'd ask for a shot of coffee and they bring me over a little cup. We've got that much in it. And I'm like, what's that? It's like, you know, that's how they drink it. So, but I wanted... I like to cough things, you know. It's like, so I want to actually be able to go raw with a coffee rather than like... And so I'd be having four of these shots and they were looking at me like I was crazy. And it's like, you know, and they were like, each one of those shots is like has four cups worth of caffeine in it. It's like super strong espresso stuff. So, but the shooting days were like 18 hours. And it's like, if you've got to maintain a level of, you know, performance and energy, you know, when you might have been filming at like 6 a.m.  It's tricky. And that's why I don't... One of the reasons why I don't do caffeine so I can guarantee that it works. And it keeps me from sniffing all that free Coke, you know. That's always kicking around on film sets. That's a joke. That was a joke, by the way. Yes, got you. Got you. Just in case. No, I mean, this is the thing about the modern day as opposed to probably the 70s or whatever, is artists are incredibly professional, aren't they? They have to be to survive. I mean, it's a bit like all the old dance DJs the ones that survive, the ones that kept going from, you know, summer of love in 89 and they're still going today. They're the all the ones that knocked it all on the head. Yeah.  You can for a honeymoon period and then it all, it all starts going wrong as my buddy Brandon Block would would back me up on. We've gone a bit peak, Tom. Yeah, exactly. Yes, yes.  So caffeine, caffeine is my dirty drug when I'm on a film set. And that's about it. Like maybe maybe an occasional biscuit. So Fishman's Friends then and just another great, great film, Filming Cornwall. I did have, I was looking at the so this chap, he's made a bit of a name. Daniel Mays, isn't it? He's made a bit of a name. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's a good guy, actually. He was fun to work with. Yes. And there you are alongside him on IMDB. That's a great, that's a that's just brilliant. Yeah, I love it. I love it. I like IMDB is weird because it's at the top of the pops. So your world ranking goes up or down, depending on like their logarithms, how many times you were clicked on on IMDB, or how many times your your name was typed into Google. So every Monday, they reset the charts and you either get like a little green box at the top of your name, or a little red box, depending on where you've gone up or down. So I do sadly look at that. And you can tell when a production is looking at you because your IMDB ranking goes through the roof one week.  And you're like, well, that means something's coming because there's numerous people on the production constantly looking at you or typing your name in on the internet, see what your internet presence is and stuff like that. So that's happened to me this week, actually. So this is something big that this one comes. After I have my start, my own set starring role then, but it is to me, my role in Martin's next film, can I have an eye? Yeah, of course you can, man. Of course you can. This could be the start of another journey for you. You could have been in Penitent. You would have played one of my boys perfectly, mate. You were doing great. So the thing is, you've got a military experience. And I think part of the joy of Penitent and part of the realism is the fact that 50% of those people that were playing the squaddies and stuff like that were military, ex-military. So they added an element of realism. And Martin was very sure of what he wanted. Like, for instance, the actual machine gun sounds and stuff like that. So the gunfire sounds were real, so they weren't Hollywood sounds. So the Hollywood gunfire sounds, I mean, you know yourself, they don't sound like that real, that poppin' like ping when you get like, ping. But that real gunfire doesn't sound interesting enough to be in Hollywood movies. Yes. But Martin wanted real gunfire sounds. So that's what you've got on Penitent. And I really like that attention to detail for it. It's great. I didn't like to tell him that when I do my editing, I just download them off the net and they're really good. I know Martin went to an actual rifle range, didn't he? And they recorded it and they got the... But when I'm doing an overlay, I can't think, what have I done now?  You can actually download machine gun and get it in here and you can get some lights flashing on it and it's just incredible what you can do now. Yes, just amazing. And also, what was I going to say? I chatted to Lee, Lee, the guy that did all the music. Yeah, it's Lee Groves. Yeah, Lee Groves. We had a great chat the other day. Incredible soundtrack. But we're getting off the top of it, we're talking about Fishman's Friends, weren't we? Yeah, yeah, we keep getting back to it. Did they have any... In that pub, was that real beer or...? No, I don't know. So I think I've only done one shoot where the taps were live, as in they had live taps, which was really interesting. And they were saying, oh, the taps are live, they got real beer because they kept handing out like fake beer in the bottles and stuff. And some people were taking a vibe to it.  And this was on Fortitude, actually, the TV show. So I did a couple of seasons of that. And then somebody was like, oh my God, they've actually got real beer in the pumps, you know. So some people were getting pissed, but it was one of those jump around moshy scenes. It was quite funny anyway. And so it was good to keep the energy up, but I had to drive back to Devon at the time.   And it's just like, and it's really, really gassy. So it's like, you know, but yeah, it would be nice. But that's what after parties are for. So me and Daniel sunk a few at the after party for the premiere, actually, for Fisherman's Friends. So it was down here. They had the boss of St. Austel Brewery's down for the premiere. And he had, I think it was tribute. Tribute, yeah. But on tap. So it was all free. So that was some of the best food as well that I'd had at a rap party ever, because it was all local produced, you know, like really artisan like fish and chips and stuff like that, real pasties and stuff. So it was absolutely phenomenal. Like, you know, just good traditional Cornish food premiere. So and yeah, me and Danny shared a few pasties and shared a few beers. So I was introduced to the boss of St. Austel Brewery's earlier on and like, you know, prior to the premiere and stuff like that. So and he'd laid on free tribute for the night, basically, as much as we could drink. And then later on, I stood at the bar having another point of tribute. I'd had a few by them. And there was a guy ordering, you know, other beers and bits and pieces. And I was like, why are you spending all that money? I'm like, you could just drink tribute. It's completely free. And he went, no, not to me. It isn't. I own the breweries. And it was the same bloke that I'd been introduced to earlier as the boss of St. Austel Brewery's. And I was telling him to stop buying drinks, just drink that stuff because it's free. Like, you know, but I managed to blag it. I went, yeah, cool. So I know you are. You I was introduced to you earlier because it suddenly clicked in.  He was introduced to me earlier. So I went, yeah, I was just joking, mate. I know you are. He was like, yeah. And then I turned around to with my other probably two points of tribute and just modelled off. And then I've got an amazing thing happened because the actual band, Fisherman's Friends, were there. So and they were they were singing for us. It was absolutely phenomenal. So two of the guys in the scene with me that are sat at the table with me before I get up to to try and fight Jago. They they're actually two of the guys from the band. So so they weren't actors. It was fantastic. So I was having a good crack with them. But then one of the producers said, oh, we've got somebody actors here. Can we get the get them on stage singing with the Fisherman's Friends? So so me and Danny and a few others were there. We ended up on stage, you know, singing to two or three of their songs.  I was listening to soundtrack in my car for a while. It was absolutely fantastic. One of their albums or two of our albums, actually. And because I, you know, it's one of those things that I didn't do much filming on it. But I just I just really loved the idea that fact that there's something to poor Isaac that isn't just mine, you know. So but yeah, I really enjoyed it. It was I'm just gutted that I've never seen any of the videos because people were recording on their phones of me singing with Fisherman's Friends. That would have been great. They're out there somewhere. I've never seen them, you know. I had my first ever childhood holiday in Port Isaac. Yeah. Yeah. My friend's family booked a like a room down or, you know, booked something down. But look, a little cottage or something. And and might have been might have been. Mine's quite possibly. I do remember there was a sign over a road. And so this is the I think it's the narrow narrowest road in the UK. Yeah.  Maybe you get a bicycle down or something.  Don't mind because there's so many fans of the show.  I think I've been working on it now for a decade.   And yeah, it's it's weird. So I get, you know, there and they're all filming and stuff like that.  You know, what's what's it like working with Martin Cleans? And he's a riot. Yeah. He's got a really good sense of humour. And and the thing is, it's his show, isn't it? So it's like, so it's just another day at the office for him. He's just so laid back. So there was a scene once where I find, you know, a really ill person on the beach and I'm dragging him up to the, you know, the Doc's house and it's really early in the morning because I'm a fisherman in the show and a fisherman, Tom. So so I'm knocking on his door to wake him up and he's got a dressing gown and pajamas on like, you know, whatever, because it's really early. So so there's one scene that I think the first time I knocked on the door, he literally opened the door and he had his dressing gown and he went, we're morning. And it just put me off so much that I fluffed my lines on the next take.  So so that was that. So I remember he was saying to me because I thought I didn't, I still got my lines out, but I was literally having a moment. So I was stuttering my lines. So they were kind of stammered and they weren't at the pace that they were meant to be. And I remember going, yes, Jules, just like that, but faster. And I went, what's your fault?   So what else do you do? There's another scene in a doctor's surgery where we had a real baby on set, like swaddled, and he doesn't like babies. So and then, but the baby could only work for X amount of time because he's a baby and they got really strict rules with how long a baby can be on set for. Like I think it might be something crazy like half an hour, which is completely fair.  I don't like they're creepy. So so they've got a fake baby wrapped up and these things, these fake babies were thousands and thousands of pounds because they do look real, you know, that obviously they're made for the film industry and and everything else. So they cost a lot of money. So there's a there's just a bit where I think he just done enough and he's got he's got a quirky sense of humour. So and at one point, like I say, I'll take the baby. Like he doesn't want to be left with it. You know, and he's asking and he and he just kind of looks at me because I'm wearing all my fishmen. So he's like, no, you know, but then as they went cut, he literally threw the baby at me over his shoulder.  So he's a good laugh to work with and a good laugh to drink with afterwards at the season rock parties. So more free tribute, I think. Yes. And XI, wasn't it? That's that's going to be Martin's upcoming. Yeah, we're working on that currently. So yeah, that's good. So what role have you got in that? So I'm playing El Diablo. So so basically I'm playing Lucifer. Oh, wow. Oh, it's in your version. It's that deep, is it? Yes. Yes. I'm apparently I'm playing someone dying on the battlefield.  Well, I could make an appearance. Yes. Oh, my gosh. So is that is that your upcoming project? Or have you got more to do? Oh, well, there's lots coming up for me. So but yeah, we're working on that. I don't know when my scenes will be probably not until next year now. But but we'll see it depends on the mood and stuff like that. Because a lot of the scenes are outdoors. And we're not afraid of a bit of weather down here.  And so so yeah, that's upcoming. But I've got some other bits and pieces that I'm kind of not not allowed to talk about. And some of, yeah, a big Hollywood thing. Just contact me to say that I'm penciled, which basically means I could have it or I might not have it. So I've auditioned. And and they could I could literally have a message on my phone now saying, oh, you've got a job or you might have a meeting with the director or you've been released. Normally, when you're penciled for a big product like that, it means they've got two people that they really like. And they're like, you know, all the decision makers are making a decision. But it's exciting to get a penciled for a production, but I don't get excited really until I'm in the costume. I'm on the set and I hear the words action. That's when I really go, oh, this is real now. You know, I got you. So I try I try not to think about stuff like that or get excited. It's like I do my auditions. I do my work and, you know, I have my projects I'm signed to. They're up and coming. But there's a lot of logistical things that could go wrong between this stage in the journey and that stage where I'm in costume with other actors and we're going to make something.  Because this industry has a huge amount of rejection in it. You know, so you have to you have to learn to deal with rejection and also be deal with being kicked in a bollocks. You know, because it does that a lot as well. You know, you could you could get some thing and then get, you know, that the product that the production might get caught. You might get caught.  You don't own the character. All you can do is do the best job you can and hope that you make the final cut. You know, so there's been a few projects I've done that where I haven't. So we see you invest time and, you know, and, you know, emotional stuff with your performances and your delivery. But at the end of the day, I'm just an actor. I don't I don't own anything. I just hope that my performance is good enough to make that final cut. And I'm I'm, you know, an important part of whatever the story is that we're telling. Have you spent much time in Hollywood? Is that? Yeah, I was I was in LA pre-COVID, actually. And I came back because I was nervous of healthcare costs over there because I had like so I was in Los Angeles for like three months and I only had three months of healthcare cover. And then when COVID hit and I was over there and getting quotes for extending healthcare cover and I just thought now I think this is serious. Now it's going to shut down the whole film system, which it did.  It's only when you're in another country without it that you realize it's actually really, really important. And it's a privilege to have, you know, it's like, you know, we should support it a lot more than I think we do, you know, because I think a lot of Brits take it for granted, you know, but we got to preserve it at all costs.  Yeah, I think it's about 15 grand a year for healthcare in states or something. So I mean, don't quote me on that, but that was the sort of prices I was getting quoted.   That's all it is, is health insurance. It's weird having to deal with insurance brokers in the states as well, to sell you healthcare. It's like, we're used to it with car insurance and house insurance and all that stuff, but insurance brokers for your health is quite surreal, you know. There's different levels of cover as well. You know, it's like, say you have like bronze, silver, gold, platinum.  You know, it's, yeah. So yeah, I love it over there. I love the states, but I'm not in a rush to go anywhere right now with the state of, you know, COVID. I know we don't particularly want to discuss it, but it has affected everything. You know, I'm working in the film industry under, you know, during COVID and having a dedicated COVID team and having to have two COVID tests a week.  I think they were spraying this thing, spraying the whole offices and sets and stuff. I think they were spraying it once a fortnight. I know the chemical lasted a month, you know, so they're being ultra, ultra careful, but it makes, it did make at the time, you know, the really big crowd scenes quite unnerving because all of the actors are being like really careful and stuff like that. But, you know, you don't know if like the 300 extras are being careful as well.  So it was quite unnerving. It's okay on the smaller scenes because we, all the actors knew each other. We were one bubble, you know. So we knew that we were taking our tests and being really careful. I mean, we weren't allowed to meet in groups of more than six, I think. So, you know, so all the protection was put in place and even in taxis. So we all let to have masks on. We weren't meant to sit next to each other or anything like that. It was a very surreal filming experience. Yes, I bet. Jules, listen, this has been absolutely fascinating. Thanks so much for coming on the show and enlightening us all to both your skills and experiences and the acting world in general. I look forward to seeing you at some point in the future. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we're not a million miles away. No, no, no. We're not. So we might catch up for a social, I'm sure, me, you and Martin between now and exile. No, I'm always up for that. Always up for that. I can give you some tips on how to play a dying man or a corpse. Please do. Yes, I'm a lifelong learner. Be very pleased about that. Mate, this could open new doors for you. Well, I have, you know, I did hear Brian Pitt is a bit unnerved now. That's really weird that you should mention that because I just had him in my head. There you go. So I was thinking about the first big Hollywood thing I did was with Brad Pitt. So I was thinking about that when you said his name. So we've already got that spiritual connection going on there. So, you know, fantastic. So, all right, Chris, it's lovely to meet you, mate. Yeah, stay on the line so I can just thank you properly when I hit the record off. But Jules, wish you all the success in the world and thank you for your commitment to the craft. For film lovers like me, it's, yeah, it's one of the good things in my life. We'll put your social media below the video. So if you just want to send me that, I know we're on Twitter together. And come back and tell us how Viking's Valhalla works out. That's how I look forward to watching that. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited. I'm hoping it's early 2022. I think everyone is. They've already put a teaser thing saying coming soon on Netflix. So they've already put a teaser trailer on there. So just to generate excitement. And I've seen a fair bit of the footage because I had to go in and do some ADR, which is, you know, some of the voice work for their accident scenes and stuff on the boats where they couldn't quite pick up the dialogue. So I've seen the scenes.  So it's, I think people are really going to love it. Excellent, excellent. And to all our friends at home, please look after yourselves. If you can like and subscribe, that would be wonderful. Share this video. Much love to you all and we'll see you soon.


so this is a song about yeah the hands and the head and the heart and what what we can be i'll build a spaceship in case we run out of room like a wizard who helps everybody's dreams come true with my hands i only wanted wouldn't you do that if you with my head i write a song about saving the world every river every robot every boy every good thing what i such a good one better than philosophy book right