o knows That's true. Uh busy ripping and tearing i'll catch this on mula. We shall see you there Yeah, see you raise force child with kylo as a palpatine clone who goes back in time to impregnate shimmy skywalker It makes absolute sense in star wars canon Yeah, totally that That's episode 10 right there You're gonna bring it all back Yeah, man, like why not episode 10 the phantom menace is born get it Because because phantom menace the first episode so it's it's really clever how it rhymes all children are menaces Going to get major leon to talk about tross. I know that dude is tizmy But there's something unexplainably likable about his ignorance rye hags rye um, I mean It'd be amusing to have a mod I guess have a mod and cover his video with him. I don't know that'll be that'll be trippy uh Small soldiers for efat movies. That's a possibility. I don't know how much commentary we could get out of it Other instead of just watching it, you know could be funny Um my hola my and jik k He has been jicked In the prestige book angia becomes a ghost I should read that out of curiosity to see how the film differs, but That sounds like an interesting development Um and a dose of buckley is back. He'd be an awesome guest I don't think I know who that is I forget something Makes me want to say that's familiar, but is he the guy who does what the buck That show that was like one of the earliest things on youtube That's not that could be something else um Thoughts on meet the parents I liked it when it came out. I haven't seen that one in a long time Remember it. Did you ever meet the falcas? I do I think I do. Yeah It's been so long though. I just can't remember it like I remember it as a thing But I don't like from over the movie Oh, apparently that's a different person. I was talking about yeah fair enough. Um, but yeah I haven't seen me the parents in ages, but I I'd I'd probably Put a bit of a gavel on that one being good.  We need more kins See, I told you Yeah, I mean if that guy said it I that yeah There's no no question Well, could you spot the lie? Well, could you please read out hollow men verse five in your epic narrator voice? I think it would sound better when Than when marlon brando read it also high rags. We can warrior j longbone and j the best sassy black woman Hi Hollow men verse five What is it? What even is my epic narrator voice? You talking about the one for the the night dragon king one, maybe? Eight step Yeah, so it's a bit long and looks a bit weird. I'm gonna I'm gonna Go ahead and and move along um Hollow men verse five, I've never heard of that before but I know marlon brando Yeah, he's the one from movies Rags needs to be put on ignore kins. Oh Yeah, well I don't agree. He's religious. So he has no four skids Well, his parents were religious. So he has no four skins. Let's be What it wasn't up to him You should oh, uh, I'm Hey, mola, I know it's far overdue But congrats on breaking two million views on your fallout 76 video. Why thank you.  Oh, yes It's it's one of them not good games. I don't know if you've ever heard of those ones I've heard of them. I yeah, but that's the games. Yeah. Yes. That's another name Uh, you you should invite nick ricketer on at some point. He said he's interested and yeah, that's definitely in the works uh The the only thing we'll be figuring out what video to cover, uh, and then thorious unlimited At least for the final two episodes of batwomen kiss j Maybe we should have some kind of batwoman if at some point He does a batwoman episode talk talk chat thoughts wayman Uh robot chicken was more respectful to the ot the hell. Yeah robot chicken celebrating the ot when it makes this stuff in We're in a competition. Uh the fontism is some great a mind goblins Um That's not a detail because he doesn't care about those mind goblins Last stream my super chat caused a discussion about sandwiches and all I want to say is that some sandwiches do have beans in them For example tortoise Sure, I yeah, I believe the sandwich can have beans in it. I I agree with that I stand for that that would be in my policies if I was to run for president You stand for bean sandwiches I stand for the existence of sandwiches that have beans in them Whether or not I would like to have them or enjoy them is a relevant all sandwiches beans or otherwise Jay long bone and efap again, you guys should hunt down a batwoman fan to cover together sometime Oh, I get it. I would I would be so interested in Just being like, what are you? smoking All the fans are bots. I think all the fans are bots. Have you seen this even real? Have you seen this subreddit? They're like They're like, yeah, this is this is actually not only good shit, but like the best cw is done. It's like, oh I mean, I could believe it's the best they've done. I mean Yeah, after after infinitetism. It's like, okay. All right You guys need to know this is better, man Those are a bead this the bat woman is absolutely better than it for the crisis on many earths The Oof so good job bat woman. You know what bat wouldn't it be great if bat woman turned out like by season three We got good Like we were we were all actually like, oh man I'd love it. It'd be so great.  It was actually good and virtuous and interesting that I care about I just want to see bat woman get hit by more trucks. Yes Oh, it's so wonderful.  It's been so good to us.  His role is Jim Hawkins Get get it Yeah, I get it Don't don't forget about the disnoids. Hello.  Oh, we shall Sam before I go said mr. Frodo. There's something I need you to know He got on his knees to give him a blow sam let out a loud. Oh, thank you brodo faggons That was someone paid money to help me read that Thank you, mr. Brodo. Mr. Brodo faggons. No homo, mr. Brodo I put my phone in my breast pocket to listen to music books e-fap at work Close enough to my face for me to hear because headphones are absolutely banned Oh I'd be curious if it was a safety thing to not have headphones while simultaneously Allowed to listen to like a music thing. It'd be interesting. You'd think they would just outright ban it all Uh tlj wasn't the risky one it raises concepts that existed in Star Wars for years the catastrophic fails to development Develop them and there's an argument that every action scene in the film counts as a solo homage or callback That's what it means. It's a whole interesting argument to go over what exactly it means to have a safe or risky star wars film I'm pretty sure that stormtroopers said ghouls doesn't make the scene any better. I'm just saying What would that be referencing ghouls Like kylo ren like the knights of ren Knights of ren You see here's the thing I don't I don't know if that makes more sense or less. I was gonna say what what how could that make sense Well, what do you what would that even mean? They are ghouls. What does that mean? What is that? Yeah, how does one? ghoul how does one reach ghoul status What a special about being a ghoul. What what is different? I would like a description of the attributes that come with being a ghoul I need it Chance of sardonic cast crossover I doubt it But i'm on board with such an idea. Yeah, i'm fine with it. It ain't it ain't our side saying no, but I uh, I don't know if they uh I don't know. I don't know if they could handle our subject our objectisms I don't think they can handle our references Ij kick rags. Damn Ain't happening. Nope. Guardians of the galaxy was a risky movie, but it was still good Was it risky? I really need a better understanding of what people consider risky Is because would you say like it's risky to have a raccoon and a tree as main characters and I'd just be like, I don't know is it? Isn't that interesting on its own the fact that a raccoon and a tree are characters? Yeah I mean how many I mean then you think it's is it risky to make another terminator movie? No and yet And yet Uh not really because the eu did the exact same thing. I'm assuming this is responding to the idea That it's not risky because the eu already did a thing I would say that you could have something risky be done in a different medium And then it would be risky again in another medium, you know It's possible. I just need to figure out better or exactly risky and non-risky means Um It makes me upset that hello grito isn't wearing a grito mask He did once upon a time Yeah, I yeah Just got yeeted Um, just got yeeted off a 75 man double elimination tournament. Oh, well, at least I made it to the top 34 and all of my sets were two to one Best of three matches That's uh, that's still that's top half and yeah Doing that's pretty good Well, I actually watched one movie bob video game over thinker episode 27 He refers to himself as obnoxiously intelligent That's probably the closest to self-awareness wherever we're gonna get so but Would obnoxiously intelligent I wouldn't say that that's describes him I agree. It doesn't he's not intelligent But he's obnoxious. All right. Yeah, he is obnoxious You'll get no argument for me on that Uh holiday special pushed the boundaries. All right Yeah, that was risky Um Fix your mic southpaw that was from southpaw What's better jesus or a picture of jesus the picture because you need only one nail to hang it.   Have you or any guest presence seen the 2014 film the grand budapest hotel? If so, what are your opinions on it? I bet j hasn't because he's an uncultured badman Uh, yeah, I saw it. I thought it was awesome. But I yeah, I heard it's really good very visually pleasing It's like a it was less and since it kind of makes sense but just the Each frame you just like ooh Um stuff's going on. It's interesting the things to look at. Yeah, it's a very superficial compliment But I would need to see it again because I'm pretty sure I saw it when it came out which means that was six years ago Oh, how time flees Uh glib equals double bigger they Hi weekend warrior I think blessed southpaw and glib are having a back and forth in super chance Is ocean man objectively old?   Hi Glib's mic should cut out more often to break up his filibusters a little. Oh They uh Fire in firing shots in those super chats. Does kovat 19 practice kung flu or daichi? Very clever, um, I think it's both Tlj luke is just discount shifu from kung fu panda Isn't shifu like much more hopeful though Wait, I thought I thought it was the the shifu that I thought he's the turtle right is is the turtle Ugui Ugui right Yeah, I thought shifu was the little rodent thing Yeah, I don't even know but he's like cynical I guess is that the comparison? I guess but he ultimately does what he does the training and he sticks to it and the He's yeah, he's doubtful, but he still does it and he does the right thing EFAP 26 at 407 00 to 407 10 cj is watching porn Um, I doubt but uh, do you want to go inspect that timestamp while I carry on rags just out of curiosity Say that one more time. I will send it to you Just out of curiosity detective rags is on the case EFAP 26 And apparently EFAP 6 3 27 00 is the first high rags Hello, yeah You have 26 And then stop sending if this three of them someone said EFAP 12 501 55 copy copy Run it around looking at timestamps. What is this? What is this? Just finished EFAP 57 started back in october after a j video stopped in to say hi everyone but rags Also, hi rags Hello Say what they said hi to everybody but you but then also hi Hey, well you gotta give me a second. Let me take a look at this and see Mm-hmm j you're like a human version of the 1916 rising I have no idea what that's supposed to mean What stop sad day days Got another one Yeah, I have I have no idea what this person's referring Oh, okay I have no idea what they I don't yeah Just to see j make a noise or something I guess sort of but Uh, hey j. How about you self aware dab and kick off? He did I'm pretty sure he would have dab before leaving Uh, someone said god not in my satanic server Oh, you know sometimes they just slip in a little bit of god here and there Hello everyone. I hope you guys and gals are well just three questions Is it possible for objectively good porn to exist? Um, yes, well the interesting thing about that would be that they're They would be filming it, right and that will be coming with a bunch of uh Is that standards to apply?  I don't know about you guys, but I like my porn to be in focus If it's all blurry If we if we get ourselves standards in a set of rules to Operate by then. Yes, we can whether you care about those rules is going to be up to you in that sense How can it be possible? Are there any examples?  Actually, it could be either of them. They both thought it was great. So I never know Um Hey Mola, have you seen the Toxic Avenger and its multiple sequels great stuff? I think they've been sarcastic with that one and no, I haven't I've heard of Toxic Avenger though They're called Jesus bows gay jay gosh Jesus bows What could that be in reference to what are we talking about Jesus bows?  I imagine they'd be like that's just homage. It's just reference Yeah, it's not like tfa where it is a clone, you know Luke tries to murder his nephew in his sleep This is the jedi's fault No, no, he takes responsibility for it. I'm sure he just thinks that it's because of jedi the jedi training that he did it Hi rag hi mohler hello Jay That's all it says. She says j Uh, we can't upload more videos. Well, he did say uh a week's time or so should be getting one Luke blames toxic jedi linearity for his consequences I I I I I could see how that that that's what it seems to be.  Wait, so this is still grito commons, right? Thanks mold's bleep Junglings the sith's favorite beer Yeah, why not? I get it. I get it Like yin yin ling but yin ling. Yeah I uh, I got you.  I don't even And who knows what smells going on there, you know I think I'd be okay with a smell. I don't know who knows what's going on there I think I'd be I think I'm okay with it just like if as long as it was like fish smells They have they get bad rap, but you can have a a fine a fish smell. That's fine I think it's the fact that it if it's a fish, it's probably like cold and on the inside, you know Like that's just how it looks. I know it looks cold. It looks cold, you know, I want my The real reason Anakin fell to the dark side he lacked discipline and had human intercourse Oh my god, also hi best dog o rags. Oh, hello Well, maybe mohler if the maybe a Jurassic Park sequel where they had a functioning park But repeat the same mistakes from the first movie. Oh Yeah, they kind of did that This luke changed over decades argument is a fallacy. He made a snap decision in defiance of his past then stayed like that for decades We didn't see enough of any of it.  It's like see what what are you talking about like And then and then lair in tfa was like snow could gotten to him So he was like, what does that mean? what was he like You know the prequels like had lots of conversations between palpatine and anakin remember that Remember lol remember Um, afterwards kyla walks up asks luke does it hurt? Oh He asks luke that I feel like that's so many saves for for rey, but you know, I don't know I don't know all the law Luke didn't stop rey destroying this the tie fighter because yoda didn't stop luke being an autistic child midder midder There you go. Oh, I thought it'd been so awkward if he was about to slice down kylo and yoda shows up because no Don't what are you doing?   Are you you wouldn't get it?  You've already died. What do you know about death?  We've been trying to reach you for ages I think they'd have a lot of words to share with him Primarily being disappointment Uh Robot heads throne room fight versus psas reused red trooper fight. Yeah, it was making me think about that when I saw stitch's assessment of that thing that That's crazy. It was it was crazy.   Yeah, the same. They just tried to digitally make it.  You know when he started to like reveal what he was about. I was like, no I think they had to like CGI so many different things because the camera and the actors it's none of it was lining up Like when a blaster shot is fired from behind her hand and she directs it to in front of her hand to someone else It's like what the hell's happening Um, can you imagine one look at that and they're just like, oh wow flash heats great Bench that Shapiro's greatest enemy is jokey are Yes It will battle eternally Uh, thanks for this needed e-fap isolation sucks and y'all make it more bearable do more, please On a less serious note, what would it cost to get Mola to open up his twitter dm so I can slide in there? Um, I don't I try and catch, you know tweets in general. Yeah, you'll be fine. Not during quarantine Yeah, you can't be doing that Can't be sliding into anything during quarantine Except your own series of rooms back and forth Oh, look at that. See oh two two one is funny to me that see that guy. I thought it was funny that guy knows what's up Horizon zero dawn is coming to pc Indeed indeed a Rooney. Yes If you sat with red letter media to do a review what film do you choose? Hmm can it be one they've already done Um, I don't know if they'd want to do it again Okay, well, we'll do two then so assuming they've already done it. I would probably choose predator I'd love to talk to him about that. It's one of my favorites one. They haven't done Um Trying to think of something that they'd probably be interested in covering that I also I've just seen a lot of times One last time I had to be like true lies. I feel like that could be fun to cover. Um Maybe night before Christmas. I know they have a vague interest in tim burton because of ed wood Um I wouldn't mind talking about something like alien three. I don't think they've done that yet just to go over its pros and cons What did they do all of the aliens? I can't remember Would you interstellar with them? Oh, no, I don't want to have to deal with like having to explain all of what I think is wrong With that film.  I think Fucking hate that movie Oh, yeah, I saw that clip on twitter by the way. You did you you said you removed the music I removed the music from because it was funnier than I remembered it It was it was from the sky trash scene Yeah Jesus christ that movie's hilarious Jay said alien three is better than aliens and says aliens isn't a good movie jay can be wrong We have one of those on He did I I'm having vague memories because I watched their audio or listened to their audio commentaries.  I'm sure they'd have an interest Let's see Army of darkness I would I think I might pick army of darkness. I actually kind of love that from a filmmaking perspective I think they'd really get a kick out of it and all the stuff that They do with the stop motion skeletons and the props and the sets and the it's campiness I I would I think I'll pick that I think I'll pick army of darkness There you go Uh, Christmas is objectively better than halloween damn Oh, and it falls over Christmas is better and Christmas is better rag is right Christmas is better than halloween because hot chocolate is better than pumpkin spice anything That's true.  I gotta go with Christmas. I gotta go with my boy Hot witch is greater than hot Santa That is true Does Santa visit orphans Well, I'm a furry so I can say the reindeer. So there you go. Does Santa visit orphans who I don't know it depends on how much money the orphanage has He has to be it's the only he has to be paid Like I suppose if uh, maybe you grease my palm a bit I could find some time There's more and more people every year and his night's always the same.  No is I was I was sort of expecting there might be a little more actually Give me a couple more benjamin No, we just discussed something. I got you. I thought you'd be more kind to Santa Are you bringing me so much? They had an extra five dollars. They're like that is literally all we have left. He goes, oh Is that so I've got some What do I have man? What one of your nuns looking real good, right? I'm so lonely.  Oh god Uh ha halloween is better because hot swinger orgies god Why you can do those at christmas Yeah, I was gonna say orgies are christmas halloween If you want to have it to be halloween themed, but Um halloween is better, but I'm biased because it's my birthday my brother-in-law's birthday on christmas and he hates it halloween is objectively better Well, that's a good proof. That's a good through line Christmas is objectively better, especially as an adult with money. I can buy my own candy whenever I god damn please But getting people to buy me stuff is a rare treat Oh Oh That picture of r2 works after rise of skywalker i2 felt i'd been shot with an electric blast and knocked unconscious Yes, yes Kind of represents all of star wars that that picture of r2 folded over like yeah And this is what it's come to boys Christmas is better because the idea of forced slave labor of the knife Eared expletives also known as elves tickles me in all the right places Oh my god christmas spirit Sure rags didn't send that shit Electrolemond sounds like leaven-based digimod uses car batteries to power up his lightning attacks Obviously, yo massives have a great stream and also high rags Hello quick question thoughts on the witcher games Uh, I've played the second one and I love it. I've played the third one and I've I've played none of them. I'm a bad man Oh my god You have a jf video games Intel cutel laughs in total. Yeah, even total got intellectual, right? I think Yeah, man. Tunnel.   I don't know um Hey boys thoughts on the tragedy of christopher christian christine western chandler the true and honest creator of sonichu Oh, that's christian. I guess Yeah, I don't know enough about it. I have to read up on my internet lore Um, and will you guys ever cover tony goldmark's video on the last jedi? Awesome, I don't know who that is though um Check out star wars theories videos on tross you massives Again possible in the future. Who knows? This man is an intellectual powerhouse Yes, sir Intellectual was typed on purpose. He did not want to confuse anyone into thinking that what he was doing is intellectual I see Is your intel le cutel just self aware crege moeller?  It's terrible shalom rags Ah shalom um, I think I can't remember if he said he is doing that or not, but uh I don't know. I it's hard for me to keep track of steven universe whether or not He's actually done a video on it or not yet. I'm assuming not and whether or not he wants to um It's called a clapper because the clap syncs audio and video Yeah, I I know it claps. I No, it's it's called. Yeah It claps That's why it's called a clapper It's got a big clappy thing Syncs audio and video got right. Yeah, just he's just trying to give you a helpful bit of trivia. Slap slap slap slap slap slap and clap Slap and clap rags help.  I think we'll uh, we'll be seeing more of alex jones videos with the new doom game coming out Hopefully get some get some new quotes lizard people ones gay frogs, etc I've either of you seen the grayhound trailer. There's something I would consider tis me between 202 and 212 The grayhound trailer That's not some some other disposable world war two tom hanks wankfest. I don't know. Oh that one Um, give me a sec curious if I can spot whatever they're talking about 202 Oh, it looks like it's There's like a Print of a wolf on this submarine. Maybe that's what they're referencing Something tis me I see At least vader wanted to connect with his son well You know Han did too until he killed him Oh, it's like the same you guys just don't understand that star wars is muka shaka paka All right, correct I agree Immutally, did you ever watch the youtube channel prepare to try three english chaps one hardcore welsh play souls games for the first time? Sounds like it could be fun Especially with the hardcore welsh in there But uh, no, I've never never seen or heard of no Do y'alls know the channel griffin gaming? Yes, I think I know of it. I do not All right Don't worry about corota america will be open for business by easter despite what so-called experts say sacrifice granny to the market gods oh What if granny is the market god never think about that Jay just hurt my ears. Thanks. He didn't even apologize to chat.  Why didn't he like joker? It was made for him Oh, I get it. I get it Movie bob. Do you remember when movie bob was like nobody's going to be talking about joker a week from after it releases And then people wouldn't stop talking about it Yeah, then it won those awards Hello boys misa back I think jar jar was a fan of uh evap which is cool Fun fact in a comic jar jar's dad has a gun to his head when his mother When his mother to think about his child. He pulled the trigger. You got to read the comic what? And when his mother to think about his child. He pulled the trigger Apparently there's a jar jar comic where his dad has a gun to someone's head. I I don't know what's going on there But sounds like it could be good law This is where I mean like building him up to be the bounty hunter. I still think that's the best course of action just saying Hi rags Hello, I live alone and poop with the door closed. Stay strong brother Stay strong United They did it.  He was a skywalker a tale as old as time No, it's not like Do you think what they would like Want people to think they were going for?    I think that's what uh if e-man gaming's video uh meme video is called We really we will get around to recording those. I swear All fear the long neck man fire. He sees all and hears all longbow mangins Mangins that's a really awful surname, isn't it mangins. Yeah Oh Any interest in unique nemosaurus sequel trilogy rewrite long and a bit of a ramble But perhaps with a discussion tries to preserve all key aspects of the plot but make them good also high rags Hello um, we probably Wouldn't want to check that out. It would just be the same as like why how many Fictions would we want to try out? You know, just like yeah, we'll be right We kind of like suggest stuff along the way sometimes with um talking about different scenes and stuff I'm curious how he spelt it in his script. You assume he had a script doggo He might have I mean You think he came by that shit naturally Yeah, I think he had a script because I don't think he I don't think he Well, I think he did I think he he was reading that from a script Yeah Uh, hello, eef up crew just wanted to thank you for everything including inspiring me to create my first breakdown video If possible, I'd like some feedback for the quality of my video. If not, that's understandable And thank you. Um good to hear We don't tend to do that because I think if we did we would uh end up with A significant amount of requests for it and then we'd have to pick and choose and I don't want to be doing that Yeah, it would just be It would be But uh, yeah, good news. I hope uh, I hope you pursue your interests in analyticalness That's a word What is your opinion on the original muppet movies the ones from the 80s? I think they still hold up as good comedies, but just wanted to hear from y'all Thanks for keeping my sanity up minus bob Minus bob. I only remember them being good, but I'd have to rewatch them Yeah, the muppet movies You guys remember a bunch of anything about them Um Like a a muppet treasure island and the one where muppets in space I'm assuming the christmas carol one counts as well, right? Oh, yeah on the christmas carol one.  I mean we we poke fun at them just in a lighthearted way At least I do I don't I don't begrudge anybody I have a level of begrudgment It really depends on what your channel is and what you espouse your values to be for example if you're reviewing video games and you you Directly like advocate for never supporting You know any practices that are bad or any elements like loot boxes micro transactions all that sort of thing And then you simultaneously like but I gotta bring in the money So play this game that goes against all my values. I'd be like wow And when they do the whole like Uh play with me on it. I love this game.  What a great duck. Thanks dad Drunk rags that you in duck isn't supposed to be an eye stupid super chat rules All right Also eight episodes into Buffy has sometimes feel bad for zander getting so friend-zoned But then he reminds me why he's there soon after Uh, also high rags. Hello season one is rough. Good luck Is I am all the sith referencing I am the senate I am the sith That would be so funny. I am the sith. Oh, I'm sorry. I just she said I am all the jedi first and his response was I am the senate I'm like what? I'm oh, sorry. That's slipping from the top. I'm just so used to it. I had a moment back glory days Why is that relevant? He's like, I don't know Uh weekend sounds like cricket from always sunny Well, there you go Finds new problems with the last jedi reminder defenders of this garbage saying a few years We're all gonna start revering this movie like with the ot Yep, they think that once we hit 2025 we'll be like, you know what tlj masterpiece masterpiece Because in that amount of time What makes sense will have changed we won't you know, we will we will have changed our understanding of of cause and effect Raylo makes less sense than Zutara a high bar That's a Zuko and Kitara, I believe Which is worse abram's track or abram's wars You're asking the wrong person because I would just say abram's wars, but I would I would by default because I don't know much about abram's track But it would be interesting to see someone who's a big fan of both Decide it for sure. I have a feeling most people would go with abram wars I feel like it did more damage to star wars than the track ones did Even from my limited knowledge, but I could be wrong Yeah, I feel like they just sort of went out with a whimper Well the the the track ones Or the wars ones because they both doesn't blink a waterway Ow Okay, um after hearing all of the misused words it is easy to understand why the main page says Until a cutal. Yes So I'm drunk and officially laid off and the more I play eternal the more I long for the simple perfection of 2016 Bit torn because I like eternal a lot, but I feel like I'm getting a lot thrown at me Yeah, I want to play it so that I can actually like talk about it because I know a lot of people have been saying Interesting things about eternal and I'd be curious to uh To join in I I completed will of the wisps to like fault-isms. I recommend especially if you like the first ory um But it's a buggy as fuck unfortunately I experienced I would say a good near 10 game breaking bugs and what I'm referring to stuff like I would be drowning on dry land falling through the floor I became invincible randomly in one of the boss fights, which is really annoying So I was trying to find a way to kill myself so that I wouldn't win which is a very bizarre circumstance to be in for a video game Um, but that was but but but fun fun fun tisms. I just hope they iron out the bits and bobs that are clearly uh gloopy Can we make an executive decision and drop this guy?   That's interlocutal defined Oh, yeah, and another Metal killed the boss of will of the wisps That reset him on the entire boss, which is not what it's supposed to do. Anyway Like it's supposed to reset you into phases, but he got reset all the whole thing.  So, you know, it's a bit of a luck factor, I guess The final shots of tross make the suns look like bb8 and I hate it passionately passionately um I mean this separated you might be you might be seeing bb8's where there are no bb8's but uh You know, it's the binary sunset. That means it's good. It rhymes And if you disagree, you're wrong Because rhyming is good Yeah So I had the pleasure of showing my gf fellowship this past weekend and of course she loved it Otherwise she wouldn't be alive anymore. It really gets it never gets old seeing new reactions to lord of the rings Yeah, man I loved watching it. It was great. Good stuff, man Return of the king video game is a lot of fun. I remember liking it. I also remember having problems with it I'd have to replay it to know for sure But uh, I also remember telling wolf about the I think it's you didn't know about this as well But the the double bit thrill fire arrows from legolas once you get the final upgrades you just fucking annihilate orcs Each each myth roll Yeah, he's firing shy as a people Uh, what do you What do you plan to cover the beam videos? I made a few would be nice to see reactions to them Yep, gonna sort that out soon, but um You know how it is with not only getting it done, but also sorting out all of the uh The claims that'll hit it.  We'll uh, but we'll try and get that sort I've got them all in a big uh notepad ready for links Oh, you're back. Let me uh Can you take on netflix's death note? That's a possibility. I've I've said because it's a one season So me and rax could theoretically watch that And then we could watch the movie And then as a as a build Listen, we could we could have like we could cover a video that's positive about it And have er as a guest because he he enjoys watching animu from what I understand that big weeb Um rax palpatine said forced dyads were unseen for generations kylo and rey weren't the first they were just the first in a long time Uh, they weren't even it does it seems as if they're Not the wiki says the first time they're even mentioned is in um You'd hang on you'd think that would be in a book somewhere because the jedi were around for Thousands of generations thousands and thousands of years. Yes They're they're just they just gave them that line so that they could be like. Yeah, this definitely isn't something we Oh, yeah But they just I'm picturing this the writing at their like wait. Why is no one found about this before? It's like just say that it's been gone for ages. Okay a long time It's been a long time How have you been Hey fellas sands is in smash guy here. I just finished a month-long fight against a five millimeter kidney stone And I wanted to say you guys my favorite podcast and certainly distracted me from the agony. Thank you for being you My goodness, uh, I'm glad you've passed it and Hopefully you are being entertained in rough times like that.  Oh, sorry. I hope it's good Glad to see jay longbone got her alarm clock I know I was I was late to my own stream a couple days ago I saw you tweet about it. Yeah, like an hour and a half My body just didn't want to get up, but I yeah, I eventually got it together I'm glad you guys are okay. I'd be lost without efap. Love you mola open your dms. Oh, it's the same person Uh, hi rags. Hello and jay longbone your laugh is perfection Thank you Interesting efap easter egg I learned this week the music from the really cute farewell video For wolf in efap 65 was the same music Mola used at the start of his 50k q&a video Huh, I don't even remember having music at the beginning of my q&a video, but all right That is a pretty big coinkie dink unless the person was referencing that music, but um, yeah also high rags Hello No mention of fuel in uh revenge of the sith really wondering why No mention of fuel they want you to think about the logistics as little as possible In navy basic training stalls in the barracks. They don't have doors No recruits sneaking efap or trying to nap with no door We'd have poop talks all the stalls face each other. So we got to have some real personal time great times. Hi rags Hello Well It's a city life for me then Couldn't maybe hold up. Um, you know like a newspaper Uh A dinner played several rounds of uno one a two hour long game of monopoly because I was the banker and you guys are still going Love love the long man. Yes. We are. How long have we been going for? well, um A almost nine hours I think almost eight hours Oh almost eight By the way, I was absolutely convinced you guys were going to be watching the ralph back ski Back ski Is that how you pronounce that back? She Uh lord rings movies also lull also high rags Hello Nah, man, we're going for the for the jackson ones The pitaya Jackson Ifap more often for those of us in quarantine, please Well, it should be once a week and plus a bonus thing uh each week That's that's hopefully gonna be what we can uh Get going in some regular thing as well. You had the three lord the rings things You must have been able to make use of that and of course, you know I'm not not saying you have to but I mean if you guys are in quarantine, you really like ifap You could give it the old rewatcheroo if you really want to Um, because a lot of material.  I need this like a crackhead needs crack Two are coming from mooper in just oh on wednesday. How about that? Um Moopers worked pretty hard on both of them should have some fun I think i'm literally going to make them both public at the same time. I don't see any reason not to And uh, hopefully you have some fun with them uh Other than that though my my main one Gonna need another month. I think At the least don't like to promise any times, but it's gonna take a while this one's a biggin Hey jay longbones say the n-word do it for wolf Oh, uh nightingale I think that's a Not your trail Hey molla, what do you think if disney rebooted the alien franchise? Oh, i'm sure it'd be great. I'm sure they'd nail it I'm sure that alien and aliens would be put to shame by the miracle that is disney They've got a proven track record.  Is it because of the whole he was a skywalker? He was a big better note Saw goodfellas parasite and hateful eight. I very much enjoyed Hate and goodfellas. I didn't really like parasite that much. You guys like it, don't you? Can you explain why maybe I missed something? I don't like it Um, I thought that the idea of them slowly trying to take the household Through different professions was cool. I thought a lot of their ideas on how to do it made a lot of sense I thought that um I mean You know we mean about themes, but I liked the Consistent ideas about the differences between classes and their approaches to problems as well as living throughout the film was pretty strong um liked a lot of the Camera work the acting was strong. I wasn't a fan of Some contrivances in the movie a little little here and there but The story they're trying to enable through them is pretty strong as far as I'm concerned and the reveal of the thing Is going on in that house.  It's really carried by really good performances And how convincing it is to the audience. I think as said the credibility of how they get away How they do it. It's really really convincing What's your opinion on the 2004 reboot of battle star galactica? It's surprisingly about character struggles and politics in the survivor's fleet I've not seen it Parents used to watch it and they uh, I said it was good, but I never really saw it myself I think my dad liked it actually if that is what I think it is There's another one with a girl on the box. There's like a red dress blonde hair. I can't remember I could be close. I could also not remember Uh, you even had some faith in rage for members of the intellectual gaming community such as myself The default position is that all mobile games suck Except runescape, but it's technically not a mobile game. There is some mobile games that are okay You can find them. There's some there's some fun ones out there. They're like little brain teasers Puzzly games and stuff And then some other ones are a little bit more complicated I remember there being some good flash games back in the day. So there's got to be some good mobile games Yeah I remember box head. Do you remember that zombie killing game? Box head. No, uh, they made like loads of demonic defense. Was it when I played Or about the last stand, do you ever play that? I I might have that one kind of sounds familiar I'm curious to see if anyone anyone's ears are picked up from box head or the last stand. We'll see Uh, I arrived late because of youtube's bad alert system and missed half of tonight's efab Can't wait to rewatch everything I missed never changed long man also high rags. Please take jay's milk away He will be demilked Milked and kicked Can you recommend a video game for my girlfriend that is beautiful foresty and explorie, but not too bashy Oh, I was about to mention the witcher three. Um, I was gonna mention forget ory Beautiful foresty and explorie, but it's a bit bashy. So Beautiful foresty and explorie. How about some Let me actually take a quick look here Let's see Um Journey could work. Yes seven days to die is not beautiful, but it's foresty and very explorie flower Flower's probably the perfect game for that requirement set. I would say but that's an exclusive to ps3 and 4 I think No one's saying fire watch that could work. Seriously though flower sounds like one to one the best Game for you looking for Hmm I think the same people who made flower made journey, right? It's like I want to say I don't know what company it is, but I think they were the same people May Animal crossing that could work Yeah, animal crossing is a good one Uh the elder scrolls for oblivion That one doesn't necessarily have to be difficult at all Same thing with skyrim. It doesn't have to be those are bashy Yeah, they are Abzu that could work far cry five, but that's kind of shooty any zelda game that could also work Yeah, the forest, but that's more horror survival Uh, I'm just scrolling through my list here Let me I'm gonna try to see if any you know the ones that fit the proverbial bill Foresty explorey, but no bashy But no bashy Oh, this is not too bashy Not too bashy looking looking looking Yes, I am A plague tale innocence Might be something that you would consider I don't know about that You don't beautiful foresty Not too bashy. I feel like Not too bad. Yeah, the bash. He's weird though because it's not really a combat game. It's more stealthy like We have to take not too bashy very seriously I guess, um How about Risk of rain too What Tetris? Yeah, it's Tetris Uh, I'm almost at the end of my list scene of things fit all working close to stardew valley Minecraft Yeah, that could work Um, let's see. I mean, there's probably that's that's like 15 suggestions. So it's gonna be something that they could work with Yeah, I'm I don't have the w's now Uh Stay frosty stay intellectual Oh into the cutal Intellectutor Intellectually Since raw doesn't show up a lot. I take it upon myself to become the next rooftop god hail ashen and the legion of raw is still open for recruiting Oh I mean raw said he came back last time, right? He was he was around.    They make excuses for it That's the thing about hiring writers. It's about did they did what they wrote make money. It's not was they writing good? And a lot of the time it just Does yeah, that's just how it is it'd be like that TFA made a lot of money lot of money An e-fab long while I spend a lone time avoiding child support What's your opinion of hereditary and the new grudge? I thought they were both mediocre himself I think that was myself. I liked hereditary. I thought it was spooky, but it's weird And I know a lot of people didn't like the ending. I was okay with it I haven't seen either of them. No, it's just not a more horror movie guy. I've not seen the new grudge now Um I like horror movies a spooky Okay doki Okay, uh, is it look see or look see uh I'm guessing look see like two separate words not look sie I've never actually tracked that myself though What are the contents of your dream house? Anyone 14 werewolves what why would what? Why would you want? I don't have 14 werewolves in your dream house Um, let's see. Well, what would I have? I I don't know. It probably wouldn't be very big um I don't want a lot of space. It'd probably be cozy comfy Uh, yeah, I'm very utility focused. I'll just be like as long as everything I needed it that is comfy Yeah, I'd like it to be kind of not a lot of big open spaces um Something that's small ish I'm not a big size queen when it comes to living space I had a wood floors and rug something really Would you have a fireplace? I would yes, absolutely. I would undoubtedly I would something that's almost castle like but Like quaint and modern, you know like stone and wood paneling and like fluffy rugs and a wood like wood beans um Let's see something maybe a little porch outside that There's something or maybe it would be like oh, it would probably be like a hobbit hole You know where it's kind of built into the Where it's kind of built into the side of the hill and it's just comfy and cozy and Sweet and intimate and sexual what you're saying.  All right It's a command from super chats. What could you do? All right, I I I did also What are you guys? Critique on dr. Sleep. I'm using it as my first video. I need to know I'm not the only Oh, I need to know if I'm the only one thinking it's absolutely terrible Uh wolf was very critical of it. I haven't seen it. I don't have a huge desire to see it. Um Then I don't think rags have seen it so We're dry on that Particular topic. I'm afraid but good luck, of course When Frodo gets stabbed by the giant goblin in moria his rib cage and sternum should be in pieces, right?  Doesn't it go as well? Is there an argument to be made that it's um Slipping between his arm and chest once it's hit the mithril if you know what I mean Like it as it goes in I'd have to watch it specifically again because the way he falls over looks like he's in pain From uh the force of the hit but not dead is the point, right? Yeah, no, you could be right that it should have done a decent chunk of damage to him I would just have to look at specifically where the the weapon hits And if there's room to assume that the it could have slid off a little to the gap between his chest and his arm Um on third playthrough of doom eternal while listening the game is so much fun Only minor issues are purple sludge and underwater sections But they're like 1% of the game time love the parkour and new combat loop dash flames saw but can see why some won't Um Halfway through doom eternal on nightmare difficulty just beat the first marauder boss feeling pretty god tier rip and tear My brother's rip and tear until it's done I think I'm I think that bullshit is starting to quickly become the new the cake is alive for me Oh rip and tear. Yeah rip and tear It's certainly not as good as slice and dice is it No, not nearly as good. I'm just like a hearing it over and over and over and over Uh gadelb is my favorite part of april even more so than my own birthday super excited to see what moopa worked up Also, hi ragus Hello, um, I'm glad you're excited to get help. It is on the way just a couple days now and moopa is excited to share um into locutal musings with you all We are the interlocutals Uh, well if anyone in the brood wants it's a really a trip gather the lube and engage maximum over slonald That was in reference to the uh Slowing down the slowed down slowed down slowed down slonald Lube and slonald Slube How do you get my hand out of a jar filled with pee? How do you get my hand out of a jar filled with pee? Well, I assume you would just pull your hand out. I just like the idea that you're like, okay I have questions already Why did I stick my hand in this jar full of pee? Why is there a jar full of pee? Why have I placed myself in this position? I knew where this would lead Um, also please disintegrate false roof guard Yeah, nobody's gonna want a replacement roof guard.  You've got to be very careful and then also question your choices in life, I guess I suppose it could He's sent a clarification in my hand is stuck in the jar I'm afraid it may be over. It's the guy who's stuck in the pee jar. He's saying it's his hand We know but what can we do? I know it's your hand I would just suggest that the way that a jar typically to have the hole on the top Which I assume that you um, is how your hand got inside in the first place I would reverse the motion that you use to penetrate the jar and then remove the uh, the hand And just pull it out and it should come, you know, just just right out Just flow open flow out gush out. Would you say? Gush Yeah, I mean, I hope you can escape that. Unfortunately. We just had another one in that says I tried to disprove it now my hand stuck as well Oh my goodness. Sorry guys Have you considered like maybe unballing your fist if it is or Is it holding on to something?     I can't imagine it No, I don't I don't think so Rags if I asked you nicely to rip and tear my freshly bleached starfish, would you be annoyed? Oh, I don't want to rip and tear those kinds of body parts. Yeah, I could add badly I tried lube and I cut the thumb no luck I mean he still hasn't tried smashing the jar so The number one solution still still active and also, you know, just more lube after that too just pilot right on And that by the way leads us to the end Um, oh my god before we go. I would probably like to say it Jay long bone Do you want to do you want to tell them to go and subscribe to you because they should oh? Yes, please subscribe to me.  Oh, yeah What am I doing?  Um Oh, yeah, I'm gonna be doing a reaction to the new bat woman episode episode 16 That's probably gonna be out in another week Possibly.  Oh, I read. Yeah, I read the synopsis and I saw a clip online. That looks that looks bad Terrible and stinky Um, I'm sorry. It's always so bad. He's Oh, right. Um, my Dracula review.  Yeah, Netflix Dracula. Yeah, it's To sum up like it It's aggravating.  Yeah, the best way to describe it Yeah, yeah, so that's So what I'm doing for now Um, I guess Rags, what are you doing right now? Tell the people what's to be excited for the future Uh, making a video on objectivity and as well Somebody else and that's just kind of coming along as like we get it done Um, you know, yeah when it's out And I am working on tfa part three unironically and have been for a while It's long, but I'm very happy with it so far. It'll come out eventually. I swear I swear also april first things will happen My friend moopa who doesn't speak to me regularly because I'm below him But does make good stuff that he allows me to release on my channel So that's coming as well as more e faperunial Noompal doompals and with that I will read the last few that have come in Uh Break the jar in taxon's house probably a regular saturday night for the guy slash gal slash whatever it calls itself anyway um Don't want to be don't want to be maybe maybe put in p in someone's house I can get you in a lot of trouble, you know, they can they can call the policers There's probably some kind of crime right poor imp in someone's house probably Yeah, but bodily you don't want to yeah putting your bodily fluids on Your on other people or their stuff it that's a no, you don't want Eight hours you saw a hack eight hours is a long man. All right. We agree on this. It's a long man And uh j long bone enough with the cpt the Dracula vid CPT I don't speak this language That's what it says. Did I read it wrong? But the Dracula will be out soon.  I think it means super chat, but insert we a boom meme here Gotcha. Okay. Thank you all for watching. Have a good night slash morning slash afternoon. Thank you all guests for But hanging in there as they did j long bone smashing out weekend warrior and jxing naturally And uh, and yeah, and thank you for the kind donations and the memes. We shall return in a week's time Hopefully for Mandalorian part two, but you never know schedules and all that we shall potentially see you there Good night, everybody Peace out. Good night everyone. Bye to Lou. Goodbye Of course, dad No


Hello, everyone. Welcome to the 2021 Hot Topics and Environmental Law Summer Lecture Series. It's our last week. I'm Jenny Rushlow, Director of the Environmental Law Center and Associate Dean for Environmental Programs at Vermont Law School. I'm very pleased to have everybody here today. If you want a Vermont CLE credit, this talk is worth one credit, and please keep track for your records. We will have time for Q&A after the presentation today, and you can type questions into the chat anytime during the presentation. So please go ahead and do that so you don't forget. We don't miss anything. Today, we're very pleased to welcome Professor Jeffrey Garber. Professor Garber teaches environmental courses at McGill University and Concordia University in Montreal, and coordinates law and governance research for the leadership for the Ecozoic program, formerly the Economics for the Anthropocene Partnership. From 2000 to 2007, Professor Garber was Director of Submission on Enforcement Matters at the Commission for Environmental Cooperation following 13 years of public service with the United States Department of Justice, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, and a federal district court judge in Maine. He coauthored Right Relationship, Building a Whole Earth Economy, as well as many articles and book chapters, and his book Ecological Law and the Planetary Crisis was released in October 2020. Today, he will present Ecological Law Case Studies, Bringing the Theory Down to Earth. Please join me in welcoming Professor Garber. Well, thank you so much, Jenny. It's great to be here. The Hot Topics Lectures this summer have covered some really interesting and timely issues, and it's a real honor and privilege to be part of the Hot Topics series. I am going to go ahead and share my screen, and here we go. So, as some of you may know, last year I gave a Hot Topics talk that was a broad overview of the emerging field of ecological law, and so it's exciting to be involved in the development of ecological law with the Leadership for the Ecozoic Project, the Ecological and Governance Association, of which I'm on the steering committee, and to be doing that in conjunction with some great colleagues, including many at Vermont Law School, which is a real leader in this emerging field. So, last year I mentioned that one of the ways we're developing and refining ecological law and its principles and features is what we're with what we're calling Ecological Law Case Studies, and at that point we were just getting started with the Case Studies Project. So, this year I want to give you an update on that project and on the case studies that are now underway. So, I'll start with a brief refresher on ecological law and its key concepts. I think it bears some repetition since it is a fairly new field, and also on the case studies approach, and then I'll turn to a closer look at the case studies. So, ecological law can be contrasted with contemporary law, including environmental law, and I'm very explicit about not just saying environmental law for reasons that I hope become clear as I go through this list, in a number of important feature areas. So, first of all, whereas contemporary law by and large considers humans as separate from nature, ecological law looks at humans as part of nature, and there are a lot of implications that flow from that. In terms of the kind of ecological limits and enforcement of those that's involved in a contemporary law and an environmental law, there's really a very reductionist and fragmented approach. It's an area of the law that really tries to do as little as possible, although there's been many gains from environmental law, but a little as possible without interfering with economic growth and other economic interests, whereas ecological law attempts to embed law more holistically and with a systems-based approach into law overall. It would give primacy to ecological limits over economic concerns, given long-term sustainability concerns. In terms of use of materials and energy, the contemporary legal system basically promotes efficiency in terms of the use of materials on energy with the interest of allowing those to be used continually over time. One aspect of this approach is that as we get more efficient in using things, by and large, we tend to use more of them. This is called the Jevons paradox or the rebound effect. Ecological law would put the concept of sufficiency front and center as opposed to efficiency, making do with enough and not taking more than we need. Whereas contemporary law really puts a core faith in the decoupling of the throughput of material and energy from the impacts of that throughput, ecological law would call for a drastic reduction in throughput, given what we now know is happening in terms of the ecological impacts of that throughput in order to keep the economy within ecological bounds. In terms of scale, there's a strong commitment in contemporary law or a strong recognition of state sovereignty with weak international global regimes. In ecological law, there would be a much stronger commitment to what's called the subsidiarity principle, which means you have strict global regimes for global issues, but only global issues and a respect for local regimes where that's sufficient to achieve the objective you're trying to achieve. In terms of fairness in contemporary law, we have a real core belief in the fairness of markets with recognition of some need for correction. This is really the arena in which a lot of environmental operates. We do have laws that recognize the polluter pay principles, recognize the need to regulate or do something to make sure that externalities of economic activity are accounted for and dealt with and made in some cases to be the cost of doing business. There's a strong tendency to monetize, which is kind of an imperfect way to sort out different values, especially when you're dealing with complex ecosystems and global issues. In ecological law, there will be stronger limits on market mechanisms, a bigger role for non-market decision making and value judgments, and a much stronger commitment to interhuman, interspecies, and intergenerational fairness. Finally, in terms of research monitoring and adaptation in contemporary law and environmental law, effects on human health are typically paramount. A good example of that is the U.S. Clean Air Act, which seems like an environmental law, but a lot of its main objectives are tied to human health, with environmental effects being secondary in that case. There is by and large nominal recognition of a precautionary approach, but often it's a very weak precautionary approach, and I'll give you some examples of how that's even turned on its head. There are few adaptive mechanisms to adjust rules based on monitoring. Ecological law would put planetary boundaries and other ecological limits as the key basis of research monitoring and adaptation. The idea is to make sure, first and foremost, that we're staying within planetary boundaries of safe operating space for humans using a strong precautionary approach. Ecological law case studies are a way to apply some of these theoretical ideas of ecological law in real world context and in concrete settings. These could be a particular project, they could be a policy approach, they could be a sectoral feature like urban infrastructure or transportation infrastructure. The idea is to take whatever the focus of the study is and to identify all the legal and policy features of the situation, they're both indirect and direct, at all governance levels from the local to the global scale. Then to analyze how those line up with ecological features and then reconstruct the situation and describe the legal and policy features that would apply in a regime of ecological law, again at all levels from local to global. Why do we do these, first of all, to help define ecological law? Like I said, it's largely theoretical to give it more meaning by contextualizing it and also to avoid dilution of its principles. One thing that people working on ecological law are concerned about is that it could be diluted in the same way that sustainable development over time has been diluted so that there's real questions now whether international understandings of sustainable development really will ensure sustainability. That's one reason. Another is to show concretely how ecological law transforms all law, not just environmental law. I said when I'm making the comparison with contemporary law and not environmental law, this is a key reason. If you put ecological primacy at the center of law, then it really has to go way beyond what environmental law does. It has to affect all areas of the law. It's also to make clear the deep inadequacy of the status quo and the nature of the obstacles to overcome if we are to achieve the vision and promise of ecological law, which I describe most often as being to achieve a mutually enhancing human-Earth relationship, something that our current economic and legal systems are far from doing. Another reason to do these is to highlight transitional reforms in the direction of ecological law. The fully built vision of ecological law can seem extremely elusive and far off in the future if it's possible at all. It's important to provide that clear vision when we do these case studies, but also to show opportunities more in the short and near term of how we can move in that direction. Here's just a schematic of a summary schematic of how these work. Again, deconstruction of the current law, not just environmental law, but also development-oriented law, like property law, labor, trade and investment law, corporate law, and so on. Again, from the local to the global level. Then analysis using some tools that I will discuss in a minute, the lens of ecological law and lock and lock-out assessments are some examples, and then this reconstruction. Again, a transitional description which may seem more plausible or practical in the near term, and then a longer vision that may seem more elusive for now. Just a review again of some of the key features of ecological law, ecological law, that humans are part of Earth's life systems, that ecological boundaries like planetary boundaries need to be given primacy over socioeconomic spheres. There needs to be full integration of ecological limits and rules and policy, and this is a key distinction again with environmental law. A much greater focus given the current state of affairs on reducing material and energy throughput given what we know about how much that correlates to degradation of our supporting ecosystems right up to key issues like climate change. The use of biocapacity and extracted materials based on real need not on utilitarian desires. So much of our economy and the law that supports it uses market prices, which is really how much we want things and how we're willing to pay, but that's very much disconnected from these ecological limits that are central to ecological law. A plurality of diverse place-based approaches, but a global scope when necessary. This is one way to talk to describe this notion of subsidiarity. Binding and supernational rules were necessary, so typically rules about environmental protection are pretty weak at the at the supernational level, so in ecological law there would be a much stronger commitment to allowing those rules when they're necessary. Fair sharing among present and future generations of life, again greatly expanded in different kinds of research and monitoring, using precaution about costing boundaries and also an adaptive approach that allows us to learn from what we're to react from what we're learning from research and monitoring to work continually towards this goal of a mutually enhancing human-earth relationship. My friend and colleague Carlos Spairt has reduced these features into three notions, ecocentrism, ecological primacy and ecological justice. So she uses those ideas in her lens of ecological law, which is one of the analytical tools that can be used doing these case studies, and I'll explain that a little more in a bit. Lock-in lock-out assessments are really looking at obstacles that prevent progress towards ecological law in terms of how deeply wired into legal systems or systems that legal systems interact with, so economic systems, technological systems, and so on, how deeply wired they are and how long we can estimate it would take to overcome them, and also looking at opportunities for implementing ecological law principles, again looking at how hard-wired a system is to keep those opportunities from being undertaken and also how long it would take to pursue those opportunities. That's something I developed in my PhD work, and you can use those to develop strategies on what to prioritize at different points in time. Analytical methods using planetary boundaries, ecological footprint, material and energy flow analysis, so on, are also useful here. Those and other methods that are used in the degrowth world or in donut and ecological economics, I'll explain donut economics in a minute, are really important because they don't use monetary valuations as a primary metric. It's more difficult to look at these systems flows and so on from a non-monetary unit in some sense, but you get much better information and it's much more consistent because whenever you are reducing things to monetary valuation, you are creating problematic estimates, and sometimes those are very, very problematic. Community and stakeholder consultations can be a part of these case studies interviews with knowledge holders. It's a strong hope that these will be interdisciplinary case studies and not even, it's hard to do that when you're calling them ecological law case studies, but certainly I am committed to an interdisciplinary approach. And then flexibility is key. It's important for study teams to have the freedom to innovate and to tailor this overall methodology to the particular issue that they're looking at. The lens of ecological law is probably the most useful and relevant tool here, and so I just want to explain a little what Carla Spirit has means by these terms. So in ecocentrism, she's talking about recognizing and respecting the value of all beings and the interconnectedness among them with equitable promotion of the interests of human and non-human members of the earth community. Ecological privacy is about ensuring that social and economic behavior and systems are ecologically bound, respecting planetary boundaries or other relevant ecological limits, and ecological justice is about ensuring equitable access to the earth's sustaining capacity for present and future generations of humans and other life and avoiding the inequitable allocation of environmental harms. So these principles can be used for looking at the legal and policy array that underlies a particular case before you then rebuild it consistent with ecological law. Carla's book, The Lens of Ecological Law, applies her lens into some really interesting cases, lithium mining and Bolivia, a ban on metal mining in El Salvador and mining in northern Ontario. In my book, Ecological on the Planetary Crisis, describes in some detail the lock-in lock-out assessment approach that I mentioned. The other methodology that I think is really interesting is so-called the Donut Economics. This is work developed by Kate Rayworth. And so she starts with the planetary boundaries and says, okay, those are ceilings. Those are things that we should not surpass, but we also need to maintain social foundations. So this reflects to me the idea that I like, I've struggled with the terms anthropocentric and ecocentric and then sort of decided the one that works for me is human-inclusive ecocentric. We need to, I'm not indifferent to human survival. So her notion of providing a social foundation in regard to some key areas, food, water, income, education, resilience, voice, so that's participation and so on, jobs, energy, social equity, gender, equality, health, and so on. Her proposal to try to live within that green donut, the safe and just based humanity, provides a strong state of systems-based set of integrated ways to think about ecological law. So I just want to review some of the examples I gave you before, before I update you on the five case studies where we've jumped into. I thought of these examples when I was first proposing these ecological law case studies, as the kind of things you could apply this to. So one is this Cartier-Dies-Trent outside of Montreal, which is self-described as Canada's first lifestyle center. And what they mean by that is that this would be a commercial lifestyle center located in Brasar, Quebec, up to about maybe 10 or 20 kilometers outside of Montreal designed to emulate an urban or downtown shopping experience with boutiques and to meet the needs of suburban dwellers living on the south shore of Montreal. I suppose it might be appealing to some people. It certainly is not to me. I mean, it puts front and center in terms of things like worldview, human-earth relationship, or the vision of the future, a lifestyle built around shopping, consumerism, global brands, a certain form of labor relations, a certain notions of entertainment, certain notions of community, front and center. And this is also a lifestyle that is very car-dependent in that this development is at the intersection of two highways. It puts into stark relief this difference between true need and not taking more than we need to live sufficiently well versus utilitarian desires, which are really pushed in this particular development. You can contextualize this from the global to the local level. At the local level, the land use regimes here, which would be a pieced together aspects of Canadian, Quebec, and local regional law, the land use is such that farmland has been allowed to be converted, very good farmland for suburban development. And again, this is situated at the intersection of two autos. At the global level, down to the local level, you can see the connection here between some key planetary boundaries, climate change because of the car use and so on. And there are then local biodiversity issues. I don't know if there's been issues directly with the Western chorus frog, but this is an endangered species that a lot of suburban development around Montreal is imperiling. So the second illustration I gave at the beginning was the Kinsu Dam. This is a dam located in Western New York State that was built in the 1960s. And you can see the green area in this map is the Seneca reservation and the blue area. You can see the expanded blue area there around high banks is where the dam was created. So this dam was authorized by Congress in flood control acts in the 1930s to protect Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania from floods. So the Seneca nation and its allies resisted this project for a long time. They got a commitment from President presidential candidate, John Kennedy, not to go ahead with it, but Pennsylvania was the state that put them over the top of the electoral college. And so he reneged on that promise and they went ahead with that domain. So condemnation of one third of the Seneca reservation, which was a court sanctioned breach of one of the oldest treaties in the area, the Treaty of Canada, in which the United States promised that they would never claim this land nor disturb the Seneca nation, nor any of the six nations or of their Indian friends residing thereon and united with them in the free use and enjoyment thereof. It was a clear breach. Part of the story here is the creation and the authority of the Army Corps of Engineers operating under federal law to undertake a project like this. And of course, there were numerous side effects, significant displacement of members of the Seneca nation. In addition to flood control protection, there was hydro hydroelectric power production and outdoor recreation, hydro power again, maybe reducing climate change, but also providing energy that allows other kinds of development that can increase environmental harms. The dam led to a highway being built through the remaining portion of the Seneca reservation, which required condemning more Seneca land. This was before the National Environmental Policy Act, where there was no EIS. So these side effects weren't fully examined as they would be in under current law in the United States. But this example, again, puts in question consideration of human as part of nature. The Seneca nation is a model of connection to place and this project disrupted it. In terms of ecological primacy, the dam project was designed to enhance an industrial city, very much linked to a capitalist growth-driven economy. And there is a connection to planetary boundaries, although the exact extent of that would require probably further study. This is a part of a project to expand use of material and energy in terms of true need alternatives that the Seneca proposed were rejected. Local control was superseded. Fairness and justice, those issues I think are pretty clear. And in terms of precaution and adaptability, this was a project that was virtually irreversible once done. And if you're interested in learning more about this, I commend this video to you. You can find that on PBS online or at the Seneca Museum store. It's a very good, fuller version of that story. So let me now update you on the five ecological law case studies that are now underway. So the first one, so we presented these in a webinar on June 15th. They're available on YouTube. If you want to get a longer look at this, it's about 10 to 15 minutes for each of these case studies. But let me give you some highlights here. The first, dealing with restoring the river Ethiope in the Delta state of Nigeria. This is a river that's in the heart of the region of Nigeria that's been dominated by oil development since the 1950s. So it illustrates what's often called the resource curse, which is where part of the world or country is basically treated by the global economic system as a warehouse of something that's desired within the economic system. In this case, it's oil. And what happens is that in this case, local communities and ecosystems have been transformed by oil development, but nearly all the gains go elsewhere or to elites within the country. Community cohesiveness and pre-oil connections to ecosystems like the river Ethiope watershed have been disrupted. Poverty is very high. There's a clear link to global trade and investment in fossil fuels. In this case, it's pretty clear that the power and wealth associated with the oil and gas sector overwhelms long-term sustainability in the region. In terms of ecological limits, this case study really illustrates well links to climate change and because of the dependency on oil and at places like the Niger Delta that support that. And it's also interesting in that it puts front and center the emerging rights of nature movement and that the river Ethiope is likely to be the first African river to be granted legal personhood. Probably in this case by legislation, I think that's being drafted now. It's a kind of an exciting development here. And there's been strong community engagement. There's been a strong effort with the river Ethiope Trust Foundation to engage with communities and re-establish their connections to the river. Very interesting to talk to the people involved there about the resistance to that kind of engagement, but gradually it's being established. There are some exciting things going on in this particular case. So, Ngozi Unwigwe are based in Nigeria and are helping with that. Dafe is the head of the River Ethiopian Trust Foundation. Ngozi teaches at the University of Benin. And we also have the Earth Law Center participating in that case study. And I want to just take a break here to let Dafe explain some of the highlights here in his own words. So, I'm going to stop sharing this and share something else for a second. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Where are you listening from? This is the case study with River Ethiopian Trust in Nigeria. I just want to thank you for this great opportunity. It is a timely, timely decision that we've been, you know, this business of trying to restore and protect River Ethiopian Trust in the last three meetings. And this concept of ecological law coming at this time, where we are the point of trying to give rights of nature to the right to, it is a welcome development. This is the major cities and town which the river passes through in five local government councils area in the state. But the economy of the state in the Niger data area, the government of the oil and gas development is the discovery of major oil depots in 1956, which they raised considerable weight for the country. Nonetheless, Nigeria and particularly the state in the Niger data region so far from the resource costs phenomenon in that despite the richness in oil and gas and other recoverable resources, poverty levels and environmental degradation continue rising on daily basis. To a large extent, the culture and the ways of the people has been converted from that of the river area to that of oil and gas culture. Applying a traditional lens is what I've just said. We look at it from an eco-centric viewpoint to start with, like the current legal and institutional framework that apply to revitalize and catchment in highly human centered. And there need to be a drastic change to this. Looking at it from a political primacy, the current legal and institutional framework that apply to revitalize and catchment that don't give primacy in the law to respecting and keeping human activity within the bounds of the political limit. And to a certain extent, such primacy is not well implemented and enforced. I call it justice. The current legal and institutional framework that apply to revitalize and catchment is very weak on a political justice. In that it does not ensure intergenerational, intra-generational and interspecies fairness and justice as a result. Great or poor practice, lack of well-being in human community and in catchment are high. And the wealth extracted from oil and development goes elsewhere. Times are quite species is ongoing and other species in the catchment face declining abundance and diversities. In 2020, in January 2021, the key stakeholder, which covers both the indigenous people, the governments, the business team together and declare the right of revitalization, which is now to be implemented through the state House of Assembly and the federal House of Assembly before the end of this year. We hope with this in mind and applying the ecological law concept, we will overcome all difficulties, obstacles to ensure that revitalization will stay for the present and future generations. Thank you. So I invite you to go to YouTube to see more about that and the other case studies. I'm not going to share a similar clip from the others, but let me give you some highlights. In terms of the St. Lawrence Seaway and the Ganyin Gahaga of Kanawaki near Montreal, this illustrates a clash of settler and indigenous worldviews and the legacy of the doctrine of discovery and colonialism more broadly. So the doctrine of discovery, as many of you probably know, is this idea of settler, mostly European societies coming in and to places like Turtle Island or North America and saying, well, this is basically uninhabited or at least not in the way that they were used to in it. And there were no laws, so will impose our laws. And in fact, we now know there were strong legal traditions and legal structures that were just not recognized as such. And so there's just been a huge legacy in this construction of the St. Lawrence Seaway is just a vivid example of that. So this is a Seaway built and started in the 1950s that facilitates long-distance travel and trade. It supports regional and global economic growth in a capitalist context where utilitarian desires and consumption are a key driver and it caused major displacement of people and disruption of ecosystems. In this case, in terms of community engagement and fairness, in the construction of the Seaway, there was very little engagement. And this was the same with other Ganyin Gahaga communities. Aquasazne is also on the St. Lawrence River upstream and it suffered similar harms. In this case study, however, the case study team will be strongly engaging with the community to discuss the Seaway and how we go forward into the future. And it puts into context a really tough problem, which is how does ecological law deal with this kind of situation where you have irretrievable loss and harm? What does healing and reparations and remediation look like in that context? The phosphate mining in Anitopolis, and let me just go back and recognize Professor Kirsten Anker and her two students, Gabriel Dastus and Larissa Parker, who are leading this study. The phosphate mining study in Anitopolis, Brazil is about a proposed phosphate mine that so far has been stopped, but could be restarted in a hilly agricultural region of the Atlantic Forest in Santa Catarina State in Brazil. This is being led by Professor Cristiana Derrani and her student Gabriela Piñera and other students. So this is a story of a local community pitted against a wealthy powerful interest. It's an ag dependent community and some of the best land around the community was expropriated for use for this phosphate mine and processing installation. The parent company of this phosphate mine is now based in Miami and the phosphate products would be designed for global trade for the global fertilizer trade. So there's a legacy of colonialism here and also a strong link to global trade and investment and there's also a strong and interesting link to planetary boundaries and that researchers say that the planetary boundary for additions of phosphorus ecosystems has been crossed already. Phosphate additions to ecosystems threatened by adversity and farming enhanced with phosphorus fertilizers is linked to climate change and so on. The case study on considering ecological law in the context of marine biodiversity on the high seas is being led by Professor Sarah Ryder of the Vermont Law School and this contextualizes ecological issues in the oceans and she's considering how ecological law principles relate or would change a consideration of two marine protected areas at least in her in her those are the focus of the work she's presented so far. One is in the US in the economic economic zone of the US and one is at the bottom of the ocean in an area beyond national jurisdiction ABNJ. So this case study involves a deep dive into the history evolution function and guiding principles of marine protected areas. We can see from what she's done so far that the focus of the high seas treaties and the parts that are being negotiated now is it's really to maintain equitable access to fisheries and marine sources for economic purposes primarily with between protected areas sort of being part of the bigger picture. So a key challenge here is that fishing and mining exploitation of marine genetic and mineral resources the pressure to do that is strong there's considerable resistance to stays of exploration claims and exploitation while the situation gets mapped out from a systemic point of view that takes into account climate change biodiversity and so on. So early conclusions that Professor Ryder is making is that ecological law is overall poorly reflected in both current practice and the treaty negotiations underway from marine diverse marine diversity on the high seas which of course is is a key global commons. And Professor Pamela Viseland and her student Heidi Gunther are working on a case study on wild animal law in Vermont illustrated by the strange but true saga of Pete the moose and those of you from Vermont who are listening and probably know this story a story about a moose who became domesticated more or less was orphaned or I think otherwise in need of some care and then well meaning Vermont got attached to him he was put into a private hunting reserve there were then conflicts that arose in terms of how he should be treated in terms of the state's program to control a tick infestation affecting moose and other wildlife and then he ended up dying of a foot disease due to be probably due to eating too much human food from the crowds of people who went to see him. So it's quite a sad story and it just puts into sharp relief some some really interesting questions about the human earth relationship and and how we relate to animals non-human animals and one of the things that Professor Viseland chose here is how property regimes dictate how the law considers human relationships to wild animals like moose or a special animal like Pete the moose whether it's as a wild animal whether it's as a pet whether it's as common property or so on. And I think this case study also has some broader lessons about the pervasiveness and implications of property regimes. Animals are but one example of what the law typically treats as public common or private property of humans and what are the broad implications of different approaches that would be more consistent with principles of ecological law. I want to quickly just note that Carlos Spear and I have just had an article looking at the Canada-US-Mexico agreement or US-Mexico-Canada agreement. It has two names in English because apparently they couldn't agree on one NAFTA 2.0 through the lens of ecological law. So we've just had this article accepted by the Vermont law review and we've concluded that not surprisingly this agreement is profoundly anthropocentric. It takes a market-oriented and utilitarian view of the human-earth relationship. It gives primacy to economic growth and competitivity not ecological limits like planetary boundaries. It pretty much completely ignores the climate crisis and maintains strong protection of sovereignty and private property. It kind of contains a kind of upside down precautionary principle and that it institutionalizes caution against environmental and other regulations from being too strong vis-à-vis trade and competitivity. So these are just you know the sort of boilerplate kind of least trade restrictive rules about various kinds of environmental and other regulations that are present in most trade agreements and then this agreement has a special chapter 28 is on good regulatory practice which is really about offering business interest opportunities to throw wrenches in the processes for adopting regulations and those are rules that will be their mandatory and they can be enforceable through state in other words country to country enforcement and this agreement maintains weak environmental measures. The one good thing about it perhaps is that it scales back investor-state dispute systems that were present in for example chapter 11 of NAFTA. In terms of ecological justice it focuses on satisfying growing utilitarian desires not real needs at the expense of non-human nature and future generations of our life and it ignores wealth and income disparities. So there are a number of emerging lessons here. There are some concrete examples in diverse contexts I hope that's become clear from a look at these examples I've given today about how legal regimes fail to include principles of ecological law and pose enormous challenges and barriers to a transition to ecological law. Economic growth, state sovereignty, private property interests, and wealth accumulation not ecological limits have primacy. Dominant legal systems are profoundly anthropocentric. International regimes for protecting parts of earth's ecosystems like in the protected areas may have overarching goals of maintaining access to any use of ecosystems generally to support growth and wealth accumulation. Legal regimes including trade and investment law often perpetuate colonial legacies of land and resource grabbing and remote provisioning. There are enduring harms from major disruptions of local ecosystems and communities that pose a very big justice challenge for ecological law. And finally rights of nature and strong limitation of the Paris Climate Accord may lead in the direction of ecological law in the transitional period. We're going to be publishing the results of these studies in a book that should be coming out in 2022. Basically describing the case studies doing some comparative analysis and then conclusions and recommendations for future research. As part of these case studies or along with them we have an upcoming workshop. We'll certainly make this available to people at Vermont Law School and elsewhere. This will be a three-part workshop hopefully with CLE credit. An introduction to ecological law case studies, presentation of these five case studies and then a working session with participants to develop ideas for additional case studies. So this really will be a hands-on workshop. And you know I would say you don't have to have a particular idea. You can come and listen to other ideas and maybe generate some as part of that workshop. And then we have various kinds of outreach including a new ecological law blog on the L4E website. And you know a lot kind of a focus effort on building the network. Along with the ecological long governance association and other alga research centers to build a global network advancing ecological law. So thank you very much. This last slide just gives you just a quick glimpse of some of the emerging work that's coming out in the area of ecological law. So I'm going to stop there and I'm very happy to take Excellent. Thank you so much professor. We do have a few minutes for our audience to ask questions and just to remind you how to do that. If you're watching on the website live stream click on the icon at the bottom of the video to bring up the chat box where you can log in and add your question or if you're watching on Facebook live stream add your question to the comment box below and we'll get through as many as we can with the time that we have. Our first question is do you anticipate a shift from traditional environmental law to ecological law principles in the next 10 years? What are the indicators? Well that that that is something I try to pay attention to and I alluded briefly to the rights of nature movement. And I'm particularly interested in seeing what happens with some of the success or initial success stories there. The one that I refer to most is the the the Fonga Nui River settlement and legislation that implements it in in in New Zealand. So that settlement resolved over 100 years of disputes treaty-based disputes you know in a colonial setting where the the Fonga Nui iwi the indigenous people had you know sort of been overridden their notion of kinship and relationship to the river had been overridden by a more human separated from nature approach that's typical in dominant legal systems and European law and settler-based societies like New Zealand Canada United States and so on. So what this settlement does is it gives personhood to the river it creates a guardian ship with representatives from both the government and from the Maori communities and it puts some key worldview concepts from the Maori front and center and future decision making about the river no matter who's making those decisions. So either whether it's not Maori or whether it's you know the more traditional water districts that are using the water for economic interest farming and so on. When they make decisions the first thing they have to pass through that the most important consideration has to be given to these Maori principles like we are the river the river is us and those are spelled out in the settlement and the agreement. So that's happening in other parts of the world in in Quebec and in Canada earlier this year the Magpai River was declared rights of the Magpai River was declared by an Inuit community and a local community in northern Quebec to try to protect that river from hydroelectric development that would be very disruptive of indigenous uses. Ecuador has installed this in their constitution. There are many examples around the world so this is some place that this is an area that resonates with the ecological law where you really have movement on the ground. Will that be diluted? You know diluted as as I mentioned is a fear that those of us working in this field are concerned about. That remains to be seen it certainly happened in some places that have recognized a human right to a healthy environment. I think of Pennsylvania which included that NRC constitution and the state the Supreme Court eventually said well this really is this you know there's it has to be balanced against other rights and it really doesn't change much. So rights of nature is one and then the second thing I point to is the Paris Accord. Now if you're reading up on this you know that the commitments that countries have made are not sufficient to stay to stay within a safe boundary but there is an opportunity to tighten those limits every five years. And so I think it's important to keep an eye on what's happening there and whether countries will get more serious over time as you know we're learning with wildfires extreme heat and so on extreme weather that this is real awareness hopefully it's growing and so the impetus to tighten those commitments may arise. But of course it's a huge challenge given our current economic system and the focus on growth and capital accumulation and wealth accumulation. Okay thank you. Our next question for you is ecological law appears to lend itself to indigenous leadership. Are you seeing an emphasis in ecological law on elevating indigenous peoples voices? I think it's a huge opportunity. So the Fonga Nui River example again illustrates that. And I'll just say a little more there are we we have seen an indigenous role with the recognition of rights for the Magpie River. There are other efforts underway potentially in Canada in the United States. The Urock tribes in the west on the Klamath River are asserting rights of nature for the Klamath. There are tribes in the Midwest Anishinaabe I think or Ojibwe are asserting rights for wild rice which is a traditional you know which is a big part of their culture requires you know has ecosystem needs there's a kinship relationship there. So it is you know for me it's a huge antidote in a way what we're hearing and learning from indigenous communities now sort of a re-empowerment that's showing that a lot of you know the hubris and arrogance of the doctrine of discovery the idea that there was no valid set of law was was just extremely wrong-headed and is now pushing us pushing us off a cliff. So I do think indigenous worldviews practices knowledge legal traditions are an important source for for ecological law going forward. Okay well I see that we are at five of one which is typically when we need to wrap up in order to let folks get to their one o'clock class. So thank you again Jeff for your presentation and thank you so much to our viewers for joining us today our final hot topics talk of the summer will be this Thursday August 5th at noon and we hope you can join us then thanks everyone