My name is Rob Bucci. As you know, or you've heard, I'm the founder and CEO of StatSearch Analytics. I really should have gone pee before I got on stage today. All right, if I'm dancing around the stage, now you know why I'll cross my legs. OK, yeah, Rob Bucci, founder and CEO of StatSearch Analytics. Perhaps you've heard of us. Thank you very much to Will and to Rand. I really appreciate all the kind words. What we do, in case you haven't heard of us, is we help some of the world's coolest brands and agencies measure and report on all those opportunities that are existing in the SERPs. If there's an opportunity there, we're there, we're measuring it, and we're helping our clients take advantage of it. Today, I'm here to share with you all a little bit of a methodology. Specifically, I want to teach you all how to reverse engineer Google's research. I want to give you guys a method that will help you target the right content to the right customers at the right time, hopefully every time. Some housekeeping stuff. You can get me on Twitter at StatRob. Of course, the hashtag is MozCon. You don't really need that, but it's standard for me. OK, so do you guys remember the name of that actor from that sci-fi movie with the short old guy and the weird ears? How often do you get random questions like that from your friends? And what do you do? You turn to Google, right? Because that's where you can get instant answers. But do you remember the dark ages before Google? How did you get the answers you needed? Does anyone in this room remember movie phone? It was like a phone service that you called with your landline, remember landlines? And you twirled your finger through the cord as he pushed buttons on the phone. And eventually, movie phone would spout some information about movies. And you were super stoked on that experience because it was the best experience you had available to you. But nowadays, we can turn to Google and we can get instant answers to all the sorts of weird, super ambiguous questions I might want to ask. And they've changed the world. And more importantly, they've changed human behavior. Google isn't any good at this query. Could you imagine in the 90s someone getting all huffy because I couldn't instantly tell them the name of the bad guy from Bruce Willis' seminal classic Hudson Hawk? It is a seminal classic. I'll fight anyone who says otherwise. Just kidding. No, of course not. You couldn't imagine anyone actually getting upset about that because that's an unreasonable thing to expect. But nowadays, can you imagine someone typing this into Google and getting all huffy because they couldn't get an instant answer? Yeah. Because we look at this and we go, that's not hard. Why can't Google answer that? All the information is right there. You see, Google's a victim of their own success. They're responsible for changing the way people search. And at the same time, they have to respond to those changes in human behavior that they've wrought. And they're spending millions of dollars on both sides of this equation, perhaps billions. On one side, there's this deep technological investment to get people to be able to rely on Google search for everyday use. And that involves them spending money on understanding how to interpret search queries, how to match them to search results, how to serve those search results up instantly. On the other side of the equation, they're spending millions of dollars measuring people's satisfaction with their searching behavior. What did you mean when you searched for that term? Did you find the results you wanted? Was there a better result we could have given you? Did we provide the right blend of various types of rich media on that SERP to guide you to where you needed to be? They're changing the rules. And at the same time, they have to play by the new rules. I like to say it's a little bit like a giant that's drawing a map while it's walking and its footsteps are altering the landscape at the same time. I'm here today to tell you that the SERPs are the front end to Google's massive, multi-billion dollar consumer research machine. They are conducting the world's largest and longest consumer research experiment every single day with all of you. And importantly, if we learn to pay attention to that, we can learn a lot about what Google knows. We can reverse engineer all of their hard earned research. With that information, we can stand on the leading edge with Google and we can learn to, well, we can learn to understand what customers are looking for when they search for something. By paying attention to those SERPs, we can snoop on Google's research. So with that in mind, let's talk about intent. For the purposes of this talk, I focused on consumer search intent. I like to think of there being three key stages that are roughly correlated to stages in an SEO funnel. Those are informational, commercial, and transactional. At the informational stage, well, conversion rates are typically low. We usually see this as the start of the path to purchasing a product or a service. Research has shown us that if you're there and educating people at this point, you can imprint yourself on them and conversion rates or potential loyalty from them goes up as they go further down the funnel. To make this a bit more real, I'm going to give an example. Let's say I decided to get healthy and I decided to get into smoothies because smoothies equals health, right? Sure. These are the types of queries I might use if I decided to get into making smoothies at the informational stage. Next, we have the commercial stage. Now, not everyone chooses to break out a commercial stage. The way we look at it is that the way people search is far too nuanced and complex to be modeled by just two stages. So we have this commercial stage and I think Rand said it best quite a long time ago that they're not directly transactional and they may never result in an exchange of good services or money, but they're not purely informational either. The queries I'd use at this stage are about attributes of those products, looking for characteristics, trying to refine down to exactly what I want to buy. Finally, we have the transactional stage. Many SEOs spend their entire careers just focusing on this point and I would argue out there a detriment. This is the glory stage. These are the terms that in like a last touch attribution world, you can directly tie to conversion behavior and so all that glory causes a lot of people to focus here far too much. The type of queries I would use here would be things that have the word buy, specific brand terms, things like free shipping coupons and so on. The point is at each stage of the funnel, the searcher has a different intent. They have different desires that motivate their searching behavior. They might as well be a different person. Google teaches us that demographics don't really help us understand what we really need to know, what consumers are looking for in an exact moment or where they're looking to find it. They go on and teach us that searcher intent is the new demographic and that intent beats identity and immediacy beats loyalty and what this means is that if you're there where the customer is looking, when they're looking for something, you're likely to win their business even if they have a greater affinity for a competitive brand. This is the world that Google has created and the one which us and them have to live in. A world in which instant gratification of need outweighs almost every other consideration. You can call it the age of human sloth. So, in typical stat fashion, we got interested in this area, we wrote some blog posts around intent and we decided to do some research. Now, what's different is I normally like to rely on all those hundreds of millions of data points that stat has and do internet scale research. This time I'm focusing more on methodology. I want you to pay attention not so much to the data as to the methods behind the data. I'll explain a bit more in a moment. For now it's important that you understand that we pick 14 product categories, all kind of e-commerce terms. The most basic core queries are words like toaster, electric guitar, blender, microwave, laptop, et cetera. We then modified those queries through each stage of the funnel. So, in appliances, the term blender and information will became blender reviews and then in transactional it became by blender. Now, I'm gonna riff a little bit on what Will said because he's 100% right. Keyword research is way more art than science. You actually have to speak to people. You cannot shortcut this work. For the purposes of our research, we kept this very simple. We wanted to make this easily understood by a broad audience. We wanted to scale it up. So, we use these relatively formulaic transmutations or transformations of keywords as they go down the funnel. The truth is people don't really search like that. They search a bit more like my blender example, my smoothing example. So, you have to go out there. You have to talk to people. You have to research. You have to watch how they search for your product or service. Use that information to inform the moments when you actually start to turn to keyword research tools. Key thing I wanna emphasize here is that this whole methodology is dependent on getting this right.  And if you shortcut or you don't put the effort in at this stage, all of your findings will be called into question. Now, if you follow Google's research, the think with Google research, you've undoubtedly seen this metric. They call it share of intent. And in typical Google fashion, they're very opaque about it. Basically, it's a way to measure the visibility of a brand at a particular moment in a customer's journey to where it's purchasing a product or a service. We look at this and they go, well, that's just share of voice. So, we create a very simple share of voice score. Again, in reality, you might choose to use a click-through rate model. And you might choose to use another sort of weighting system that is more relevant to your industry. We kept this very, very simple because this is a broad piece of research that focuses more on methodology than on actual data results. So we have a weight. The weight is correlated to a ranking position that's multiplied by search volume. And thus we get a share of voice score. That share of voice score is basically a way of measuring how visible a site is, how visible a ranking is, how much potential traffic it might send, perhaps. Usually share of voice is represented as a percentage. We kept it as a whole number and it's very simple. The higher the number, the better it is. I just don't want you to forget. The data from our research is specific to our keyword set. Your results will differ. So if you start tweeting photos of the pie charts and all that, you're actually misleading people because these are not universal facts. This is all about the methodology. So, focus on those methods rather than the data. Okay, so for each stage of intent, we map the SERP. And this is something that we do day in, day out. We parse out result types. We look for featured snippets. We look for images. We look for news results. We look for places packs. We look for people also ask. We look for video. And we look for shopping results. And as we went through them all, we asked ourselves three key questions. One, how can we unlock Google's insights into what searchers are looking for at each stage? Two, what points of leverage do we have in each stage to make sure that we're visible and importantly, that we're useful? And three, how can we reverse engineer the winning strategies of those key competitors at each stage? Here's a 10,000-foot view of what we found. Boom, 90% of the results on the SERP, regardless of the stage we're at, are organic results. Google tells us that you have to be there, you have to be useful, and you have to be quick. And what they're saying is that the organic algorithm goes 90% of the way to providing results that are there, that are useful, and that are quick. That's a pretty amazing thing. That algorithm goes 90% of the way of lifting all the weight and all the utility that people find from Google. But today I wanna focus on that 10%, not that 90%. So we're gonna zoom into that 10%, and here's what we see. Whoa, 60% of the remaining non-organic results on the SERPs are shopping boxes. I think this is insane. The European Union agrees with me. Whatever, I digress. The point is, these are e-commerce keywords. You have to expect that you're gonna see shopping boxes there, ignore this data at your own peril. If this is your space and you wanna play with it and you wanna win, you definitely need a paid strategy. Now, I'm gonna come back to shopping. That's an important feature of all these SERPs. But for now, let's zoom into the other non-shopping. I call these our points of leverage. I call them our points of leverage because these are the universal result types that are going to allow us to go that extra mile towards meeting search or intent. On the basis of a strong organic ranking strategy, these are the result types that are going to allow us to go that extra step further to helping our customers, giving them truly useful experiences, cementing the utility of our brand in their mind, ushering them towards their destination and generally providing all sorts of awesome signals of engagement for Google. To start with, we're gonna look at the informational stage. We're gonna work our way through three stages and then we're gonna wrap it up. I call this the topology of the informational SERP. This is basically a count of the non-organic result types we saw at all those keywords in the informational stage. This allows us to understand what kind of moments our searchers are having. When they search for terms in the informational stage, what are they experiencing? What are they seeing beyond the organic results? A lot of shopping, images, news, video, people also ask, answers boxes, also called featured snippets, places. So 42% of our leverage in the informational stage are the shopping results. Here's what Google knows. When people use these super short tail core product terms, there's a high likelihood that they just wanna buy it, like right there, right now, they don't give a darn about the model or the size, they just want it fast and they want it cheap. Google knows, immediacy beats loyalty and what they're doing with their shopping boxes, really, when it all comes down to the end of the day, is they're auctioning off immediacy to the highest bidder. It's at the very top of the SERP. 21% of our leverage are image boxes. Now, it's hard to say who wins when it comes to image boxes on the SERP. We have this paradigm of ranking things from top to bottom, images are in this strip. Now, I would actually say this is one of those rare moments where it doesn't matter if you actually rank on the main SERP itself, what matters is that you rank in the image search results because someone's gonna click on one of those that they wanna see images and they're gonna scroll through those image results. Those image results are actually a really wonderful user experience for broad and unrefined queries. They allow us to get to what we're looking for without expending the necessary energy of using human language. We can just look with our eyes. As a sidebar, you guys, there are an infinite number of cat litter scoopers available on the internet. They come in all variety of shapes and sizes. I don't have a cat because my husband is mean, but if I did have a cat, his name would be Samages and I would love him forever. You can tweet my husband, it's at Mr. Underscore DAC and you can tell him I deserve a cat. I would really appreciate that, but digress. The point is, if I did have a cat, Samages, my lovely Tabby, I would need a cat litter scooper and I would turn to Google image search and I would type in cat litter scoopers. I would scroll down the results until I found the one I was looking for. It's the one that's like shaped like a rainbow, doubles as a slingshot and I'm like good to go, right? So that's a really good experience for me when I'm looking for something that's super broad and there's all sorts of various like iterations and versions of it. And if someone does click on one of your images because it's enticing to them, you actually have a pretty good opportunity to convert them. You have a lot to work with here. You have the image, of course, that's what drew them in. You have a great title that you can make actionable, you have a description there and you have a link for them to visit your website. Okay, news boxes. 18% of our potential leverage in the informational stage. This chart shows the average search volume per keyword per result type in this informational stage. Basically this says when a result type is triggered, what is the average search volume that that keyword has for that result type? And news boxes like massive, right? So I look at that and that's very, very enticing. I want to evaluate the potential going after them. The first thing I want to do is I want to say, who's winning? And here's what I see. 102 media sites across 128 separate news results. The dispersion is super broad, like everyone and their dog has a news result. These five domains are the only domains that have more than one news result. And so like really, you look at this and there's like not really a true incumbent here. Everyone, the vast majority only has one result. The next thing I want to know is on average, who's sending the most traffic per news result, i.e. who's winning the most valuable news results? And here's what I see. Interestingly, these five domains are not the same domains that were on the previous slide, meaning that all of these sites that are sending all of the search volume are doing so on the basis of just one news box ranking. How can you build a strategy around this? You can't. Here's the thing. News results suffer from an irrelevancy problem. I'll give you an example. I love chocolate pudding, you guys. I just like, I can't get enough. And let's say I wanted to go and I wanted to buy some chocolate pudding and I typed chocolate pudding into Google and what I would see was a news box for Meryl Streep, spotted eating chocolate pudding at a fashion show. The fashion world is aghast, like something like that, which is completely irrelevant to my actual query. That's because Google does this on purpose. You see, what Google knows is that when someone searches for a core product, a place, a person, there's a possibility that that product place or person is the subject of a news event. And what we all know is that Google's relevancy algorithm largely is based around links and citations and you can't accrue links and citations at the same pace as the news cycle. How do you deal with that problem? Very simple. You exact match the query with the headline of the news article, thus covering off any possibility that the person is looking for a news event. Here's an example of that irrelevancy problem in action. The term is jacket. It might seem like a really good core product term maybe, but it's just a broad news box. I can't use that at all. Here's another one for desk. I snuck a little sexy Canadian Prime Minister in for you. You're welcome. But here's a great one, best laptop. Look at that. Look at the visual real estate that has. It takes up most of the screen. It's a great consumer term. It's probably directly related to what someone who's like a world traveler is looking for. It's also completely ephemeral. That result will disappear as soon as it ages out of the news cycle. As a side, this is at least partly how Google is responsible for the erosion of quality journalism over the years. News orgs are so desperate for that traffic because it drives the advertising revenue that keeps them alive that they're willing to constantly regurgitate the same article over and over and over just to chase that algorithm quirk. Let's add another example of how Google's changing the world. My tip to you is this. Don't go running after news boxes just because they rank on high traffic serves. If you're looking at the data the way we are, you will consistently see news boxes appear for massive search volume queries. And you're like, wow, that's super enticing. Unless you're Forbes or Gizmodo or some media company, there's no point. Just ignore them to death. Okay, 8% of our leverage is video results. I love this.  But also, look at this. Bed, Bath and Beyond. It's a branded term. That goes directly to a product landing page. I bet you that performs very, very well for them. And then you have sometimes these smaller video thumbnails when the video is a primary piece of media on the site. You can get these video thumbnails that will appear. So there's some good opportunities to get some great extra real estate on the SERP. The first thing I wanna know is, is there like a big winner? You guys, I have a secret for you. Let's all keep it in this room so we don't ruin it. Google has a bias towards YouTube. Now you know. So we look at this and we're like, okay, well these are e-commerce terms. I don't really wanna send my traffic to YouTube, right? Right, here's a mantra for you to walk away with. Be the Bed, Bath and Beyond. Because that's what you wanna be. You wanna be that site that ranks that large video thumbnail directly to your product page. And if you can do that, that's awesome. And if you look at the data and Google saying, hey, people when they search for these queries, they want to interact with video. And you look at your site and you go, I have video assets, I can take advantage of this. That's a great opportunity and you should run with it. Featured snippets. Everyone loves featured snippets. I love featured snippets. I'm tired of saying the word featured snippets. They're probably one of the most blunt examples of Google conditioning and modifying the SERP to like directly meet consumer or search or need. And they're a great opportunity for SEOs. Many people have been driving fantastic results with them. So I definitely wanna take a look at the potential of going after them. The first thing I wanna look at is what is the most common featured snippet format? I look at this and I go, okay, great. I don't have to make major site changes. I don't have to put tables or worry about making, or changing my content around because it's mostly paragraphs. And all I have to do is make some small optimizations to take advantage of that. The next thing I wanna know is how valuable are these keywords that the featured snippets are appearing against? 23,300 is the average search volume. So I know that these featured snippets are appearing against very high value terms. The next thing I wanna know is who's the incumbent? Oh, it's Wikipedia. Now a casual inspection informs that the Wikipedia featured snippets are mostly around like broad product knowledge, like who made the product, what's the history of it, why does it exist, how do I use it, et cetera. So you have to ask yourself, I'm really enticed by this opportunity. 23,300 average search volume, featured snippets at the top of the SERP, do I wanna fight with Wikipedia? Is it a good use of my time? Probably not, right? Right, there are greener pastures. Let's sum up the stage quickly. What have we learned? First of all, we need to recognize when we need a paid strategy to win.  That's just the fact. So you need to break down the walls that you might have between you and your paid team and work with them on this one. You can't ignore those shopping boxes. Lesson two, we need to look towards strong bias for certain sites. These incumbents like Wikipedia, they're currents that we have to swim against and you really wanna not be swimming against the current if possible. And when you see an incumbent like Wikipedia, it's pretty hard to compete with them when it comes to featured snippets. So if they're dominant in your snippet space, maybe you wanna look for greener pastures. Lesson three, looking at those SERP topologies tells us what Google thinks these searchers want. This is not a mistake, it's not random. The fact that there's a certain percentage of video results to featured snippets, to images, to answers boxes is not at all an accident. It is the result of years of Google's fine tuning the SERPs and their research into engagement patterns of people. So if you look at that data, you can understand what kind of moments those searchers are having, that Google thinks are best for those searchers and you can use that information to inform what you're trying to do. Lesson four, news boxes suck.  People get like really excited about big numbers and they chase after it without really thinking twice about it. It's a waste of time. Always critically interrogate the data, go a level deeper to see if it's something that you can actually take advantage of. All right, commercial intent stage. Here's a topology. Whoa, shopping boxes, right? We also have images. We have videos. We have answers boxes. Those other wedges are too small. The news box is about 2% of the leverage here. I didn't put the number on, but now you know. Last time we went through every single result type and that was quite, it took a long time. I spent quite a few minutes doing that and I wanna do it a little bit quicker. I wanna show you a method that's gonna help you get to the finish line faster. We're gonna do this with share voice. Share voice is a great way for us to measure the visibility of a result. So here is the average share voice contribution per result type. Remember, Nord News, it's like the siren song. I look at it and I'm like, oh yeah, look at that. No, you can't have that. But maybe answers boxes. So that gives us some ideas and maybe where we wanna start. But before I go through every single result type, why don't we start at the end and work our way back? And what is the end? Well, the end is who's winning. So the way we're gonna do that is we're gonna look at the domains that have the highest aggregate share of voice in this segment. Consumer Reports and TechRator are almost neck and neck. Then you have Amazon third, CNET and PCMag fourth and fifth. The next thing I wanna know is these are the winners but who has the most real estate? I.e. who has the most rankings? That's weird, right? Amazon's in third place but they have 3,117 rankings on these SERPs compared to the first place site which only has 299. Instantly I'm like, what on earth is going on? The technique we use to understand and figure out what's happening here is to attribute the share of voice back to the result types that are driving that share of voice for each one of those winners. And that's this chart. So first of all, I can point out Consumer Reports. Super badass. Driving a massive amount of share of voice in first place primarily on the basis of 299 mostly organic rankings. That means they're ranking high for super high value keywords and that's a very strong place for them to be. Then you have TechRadar in second place. TechRadar is also badass for a different reason. They're driving a ton of share of voice, more than 50% just on the basis of featured snippets. Both of those have like sub 300 rankings. Then you have Amazon 3,117 rankings in third place like the giant in the room just swinging its club winning on the basis of volume alone. But you have to know that a lot of those rankings are not very high value. A lot of them are quite poor in fact and that's why they're in third place. You have CNET who's bringing in some games with video. You have PC Night that has a blend and you know what you see almost none of? It's news boxes. So I should just call this talk news boxes suck, but anyway. Okay, so moving on. I wanna show you all how you can segment my query modifier to see which result types Google likes. The queries that people use are such a strong indicator of the mental state of the desire of the mode that the searcher is in, right? So if we're able to pull out certain key terms like buy, review, compare, sell, et cetera, we can really begin to get this fine grained knowledge of how Google is conditioning the SERPs to meet very minute moments of intent. Here's the topology when the word best is used in a query at this commercial stage. If your percent is shopping, but answers boxes. Remember what Will said? When people use the word best and they see featured snippets, what they want is some guidance from like a trust of third party to help set them off on their journey, to help them find what is actually best. This is a good way for them to jumpstart what they're looking for. So Google has given people featured snippets to get them to that destination really quick and by simply segmenting on the word best, we're able to tell really quickly, hey, you know what, if we're optimizing for queries that have the word best in it, we better consider some featured snippets. I do not advocate running headlong towards optimizing for featured snippets. I advocate taking a look at the data, digging deep into your businesses, strengths, your weaknesses, and your opportunities and deciding if this is something you can take advantage of. Look at this, compare. When the word compares is used, 42% of the non-organic leverages videos. Google knows that when people use the word compare, they wanna see videos of people comparing products. New. When people use the word new, they wanna see images. Remember, I'm gonna point it out again, this is not random, this is on the basis of very careful meticulous research and feedback loops that Google's built into the SERP. Reviews, we see a really great blend of both videos and featured snippets. Just don't forget, you have to go deeper than the surface data, you have to dig into that share of voice. So what have we learned about the SERPs for our commercial keywords? One, we've learned that by using share of voice, we can measure which domains are winning. That's how we get to that very, the finish line. Who's winning in the space? We aggregate up the share of voice. And we can see that even though, TechRadar has like 3,000 fewer rankings, they're still beating Amazon on the basis of share of voice, which is the leading indicator of their visibility in this space. Lesson two, we can perform share of voice analysis on result types to assess their potential. Thus, we can reverse engineer exactly how TechRadar was winning. It's on the basis to feature snippets. Lesson three, we can segment even deeper on those query modifiers, words like best, compare, reviews, buy, et cetera, to see how the SERPs adapt. Thus, we know that when people use the word best, the searchers want snippets. When we use the word compare, the searchers want video. Final stage, transactional intense stage. Here's a typology. It's like the birth of Pac-Man. It's getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. The SERPs are getting more and more distilled. Now, I want to use the exact same method as I did in the last stage because it's very efficient. We're going to start at the finish line and we're going to work our way back. So here's who's winning. Based on aggregate share of voice, Amazon, Walmart, Overstock, Best Buy, Sears Outlet. Let's attribute those back to the result types. Whoa, it's all organic results guys. At this point, everyone is winning on the basis of organic results. No one is pulling in their wins because it featured snippets when it comes to the transactional terms. Here's the thing. The further you go down the funnel towards those glory keywords, those high converting keywords, those moments before purchase keywords, the more distilled the SERP becomes. The more Google wants to funnel people towards their paid product and the more Google wants people to rely on the organic rankings. The things that get people to their destination really, really quickly so that they can buy something immediately because we need to be there, we need to be useful, we need to be quick. And the organic algorithm goes 90% of the way of doing that. This is basically good old fashioned SEO and it's probably pretty gratifying for all everyone who's like, you know, get off my lawn when it comes to featured snippets. It's like it all comes back to good old fashioned SEO. And of course, PPC because you got to play that shopping game. So at the risk of sounding reductive, the advice here is really simple. Are you ranking high? Are you ranking the right content? How do you tell if you're ranking the right content? Well, one of the things we do is we scaffold out all the URLs that we see for a particular site ranking. We then look for the patterns in the URLs. So if we see a URL that's like sat slash C slash and we go to that page and we see it's a category page, we're gonna wild card tag every URL as category. And then if we see slash P slash and we go to that page and we see those are all product pages, we're gonna wild card tag all those as product pages. That feeds into graphs like this. Which UX is ranking the most? Which UX is the most visible? Category pages. This is borne out across all of the winners. Category pages. Category pages. You see, what Google is doing is the rewarding the best user experience that displays the highest engagement. So people like really labor these decisions around, oh my God, like what do we choose to rank here? Like what sort of user experience do we wanna give people? You don't have to reinvent the wheel. You don't have to really have a ton of conversation about it. You have to look at what's already winning. Because Google has decided to reward those things because they're helping people. And you can use that information to decide how you're going to help people. So what have we learned about the SERPs for our transactional keywords? One, we've learned that the deeper we go in the funnel the more we have to rely on organic rankings. Those organic results are the best way to push traffic in this stage. Lesson two. We've learned that analyzing ranking URLs to find out what UX, sorry, I'm gonna repeat that. We've learned that we can analyze ranking URLs to find out what UX satisfies the searcher's intent most. The majority of those pages that we saw ranking were category pages. We can just move in that direction. We don't have to swim against the current and try to like shake things up. We know that's working. We know people like it. We know Google's rewarding it. Let's just do that. Okay, so at the end of the day, what conclusions have we reached? Remember Google's advice. Be there, be useful, be quick. How do we be there? First of all, it starts with quality keyword research and thorough segmentation. You cannot shortcut this. Take a page out of Will's book. Talk to people, interview them. Ask them what they're looking for. Ask them why they search for certain things. Ask them why they clicked on that result. Get in the mind of the searcher.  This is crucial and underpins everything you're gonna do in this methodology. How do you know if you're there? Well, you know you're there by measuring share of voice. It's a great proxy for general visibility. How do you know if you're useful? Well, you can look at those topologies and you can find out what Google thinks is useful to searchers on the basis of their research. Take a look at this and tell me that if this was your business and this was your data, you wouldn't look at this and go, whoa, people want video. Google has learned that. I'm gonna piggyback on Google's learning and I'm gonna see if that's an opportunity I can use for my business. How else can you be useful? You can create the right types of UXs by looking at what's already winning. How do you be quick? Well, that's a little bit outside the preview of this talk, but there's lots of great content out there on site speed optimization. Basically brevity, omit needless words, get right to the point. Now, many of you might go, hey, Rob, you know, really like that's great, but 90% of the results are organic and at the end of the day, it's organic that's really winning when it comes to those converting keywords. So I'm just gonna focus on that. The truth is, is across each stage, those non-organic results make up 15% 11% and 10%. And then you look at this, that birth of Pac-Man. You might go, it's just not worth it, right? I mean, Google's squeezing us out. And if I just focus on the organic, that's my comfort zone and I can stay there and I can probably win. Yes, maybe, but I wanna point out this stat. This chart shows which result types, on average, deliver the highest visibility, the highest share of voice. Shopping's at the top, because Google's perverse. Shopping's at the top because Google put shopping box at the top. Organic is under 2,000 average share of voice contribution. Everything else, those answers boxes, those images, those videos, on average deliver 3,000 share of voice contribution. So you definitely need a strong foundational, organic SEO strategy. You can't get away with that. That's the basic. That's like the minimum thing you need to establish in order to win in any space. But by optimizing for those various result types, the ones that correlate to a strength within your business where there's an opportunity for you to take advantage of it, you're going to be able to pull away from the competition. Go further towards meeting the needs of the searchers. So here's some key takeaways for you. Optimizing for universal results is the best way to ensure that you're satisfying searcher intent. We can snoop on Google's findings on search intent by looking at those SERP topologies. As we move down the intent funnel, different result types rise and fall in value, and that's really important. People have these cookie cutter one size fits all approaches to this. But the truth is, answers boxes aren't that useful in the informational stage. They're not there at all in the transactional stage, but in the commercial stage, they work quite well. With that knowledge of intent, we can start crafting the right content for the right moment of the searcher's journey. This analysis is actually very easy to do. Here's what you need. You need a SERP tracking tool that can break out result types. You need some search volume data. You need a share voice model if you're choosing, and you can do it in Excel or SQL. I did all of this in Excel or SQL just to prove to myself that it is possible, and in fact, it's quite easy to do. There are tools that you can use that will help get you a little bit further along. Moz has this wonderful SERP features feature. SERP features functionality. Serp feature thing. Anyway, the point is, they do this great job of aggregating up the different appearances of result types across the SERPs, and it really helps you get to the finish line sooner. Stat does this as well. Both of us have information out there that you can look at in the partner hub where you can come talk to people, and they'll show you how you can do this sort of research with their own tool sets. If you're interested to learn more, there's a whole white paper on this topic. Getstat.com slash MozCon. There's a lot of information around like people also ask boxes related searches, things that I just couldn't fit into the time today. So go ahead and download that if you're interested to learn more, and thank you very much for your time. Hope you have a great day. Thank you.


So yeah, so who has has anybody else seen guys not dead, too? No, not he hasn't seen it either. Hi. Hi there goodness Well this movie all of these guys not dead movies are based on actual Court cases and actual occurrences is hundreds of them probably thousands of them and so this brings up the The church and state thing we have a thing here in the United States is separation between church and state Pretty much most of these kind of things are reactions I mean throughout Christian history in Europe a lot of Europe is burned out on this church and State stuff where they had churches ruling the country He's very excited He's like So In United States separation of church the state, but these kind of laws get carried out in kind of extreme cases, so Whereas the first God's not dead movie. Does anyone see that one? Yeah, that was one with the professor and the student comes and Basically all the students in the philosophy class have to write out God is dead and signed the paper to skip over the problem of God But in this one we have a school teacher not not at the university level, but the school teacher Who basically wants to be truly helpful and is using some examples of Throughout history of different people and teachers and and happens to throw Jesus in the mix and Happens to share a line or two From the Bible I believe and then that's where all the attention and the hammer comes down So it's going to be that's the backdrop theme, but really I think it's very much like the first movie and it's just going inside and getting in touch with With values because it's not so much a religion or no religion or or trying to keep religion and Education apart which is Which is you know, they do have parochial schools in the United States that are private schools But in terms of public schools you're supposed to keep church religion and then Education apart so that's going to be the the underlying theme, but really It's more like it's you can see it in the characters the main character and then some of the students they start to get in touch with I think you could say it's their calling and And You know, we just Had a beautiful movie yesterday documentary movie which we follow this band Started out at a basement in Australia and then have gone worldwide With their church and their band and and I think you could see It's some of the documentary scenes of the of the different band members being called and Called by God they would say and then this is the fruition of that call is Going deeper and deeper into to being used by God and I think for For this teacher and the students it also brings in She has a good relationship with her father and Tries to talk things through with him Does anybody remember Pat Boone?  This is the father It plays he pays the father of the teacher in this and so he's He has some of his influence, but you can see with the students. They have to really Start to take a close look at at their own belief systems and what they value very much like the first God's not dead movie where The young man has to decide he can't in all of his in good conscious sign the paper that God is dead and in the end ends up having to get more and more in touch with What his beliefs are and his feelings and and and I would say underneath at the calling So this is a good movie for Answering the call and at the end the students have to make up their minds About the teacher whether they support the teacher or not and and how far are they? willing to go and supporting the teacher and and acting out what they feel is Very strong inside and I think that's even with Course of Miracle students, you know People can immerse with the book and then it comes a point whether it's going to be kind of like Trying to just teach the course intellectually and hold on to the status quo which is personhood and the world and Families and institutions and so on so forth or As the Apostles were called to do to let go of everything in the world and actually move towards the Christ Light and the Christ experience so this movie is more at the at the introductory levels of those that have a strong calling in terms of their faith and Yeah, in terms of a Teacher having to look at her principles and then Being threatened with you either Recant on these things and kind of cave in and give way or or you're fired and You know, this isn't quite as extreme as the Cathars in the Pyrenees where they were told recant Your position and accept the Catholic Church's position or burn and that fire right over there Not quite that extreme, but you never know pure flicks. They might come out with someday we could have the Cathars By pure flicks and you know because it that was very much taking a stand for the mystical Jesus I'd say and In one sense, that's what our daily lives are about to and like the Apostles giving ourselves over completely So I think this is one of those it's definitely a God movie It's got a God vibe in it like touched by an angel always has like a God vibe there This has got the God vibe and and again, it's based on actual court case actual or actual Cases that they just decided to make a movie out of so so for those of you that got to watch the The movie yesterday, this will be your second pure flicks movie in a row Back-to-back pure flicks Okay Oh Which she will be American civil liberties union Merrick ACLU is American civil liberties Yeah, yes Civil liberties protecting liberties the freedom of individuals Against things like religion So that's what they're formed for so that's a very powerful Organization so the school board is going to try to pass the buck and just say we we say Take hands off and then we let this American civil liberties union ACL come in and do the The dirty work Okay That we don't have the financial bearable fight that We submit copies of our sermons for the last three months For review Can they do that? They're all the ministers in the ground All the ministers in the town have been subpoenaed to submit their sermons for the last three months So Think about that you're a minister Getting a subpoena from a court What do you have to and now we'll hear why did they want to subpoena all the The sermons for the last three months word for word Well and all the reasons we've been using the church umbrella It's not possible for pastors to own any of their sermons so every Sermon that I've ever preached or every tape every audio every YouTube video is the property of the church And and basically these are all ministers of the church and now There are every one of them has been subpoenaed to submit their sermons for the last three months So we'll see what that's all about Could be involving private thoughts and private minds Which we talk a lot about which is where all the guilt is Where all the contention and conflict That's getting deeper.  There's a young minister 20 23 22 22 but still subject to The laws of God Okay, let's see what it does I Didn't use them So now the government can determine what we can and can't reach at our churches So the key turning point in the movie was God has a plan Even though no matter how everything looked and it's interesting. It just dawned on me and seeing that movie again that the very end of the trial they took it they took a play out of Mahatma Gandhi's playbook with With the British I don't know if you ever remember seeing the movie Gandhi But basically the British with their white wigs they tried him and they basically Use all of his writings in the trial to basically say Mr. Gandhi you wrote and he wrote about freedom he wrote about non-violence and all these things he wrote about and At the end they Pressured and pushed and pushed and pushed all these things that he had said Where everything that he had written was in violation of the British laws for India and then Gandhi said if if everything you have written and everything you've said that I have said is Sedition that's what they charged him with sedition he held his hands up and he went Then I am guilty as charged and must be put into prison immediately That popped it That's what they did, you know, it was like a reverse strategy But it was just coming to that point of having this you have to invert a whole belief system To come back to innocence and that's I think that was great because I was sitting there thinking where have I seen that? that ploy before In action and Gandhi actually used it you know as part of you know freeing The country of India from the British rule You know so it was good because he basically turned it around so I thought that was great But it really gets down to principles and I Think I don't know maybe I don't know if it's still after the credits We cut it off there But I think there might be some more because a very very end of the movie Maybe I think I've seen this is is more of an answer to the Sarah's question Because I know I saw more than that we might have to Go further there. We might have to seek a Sarah still waiting to see where that correlation So I think Nicholas we may have Cut it off too quick Yeah We're in canvas Where nothing is predictable including our movies Deanna I think got the pretty most of the harvest These were all the cases I'll see if it's done here. I know I remember seeing something so we'll see whether I saw it in the theater or whether it got Taken taken out of the movie or whatever What do we do now same as always Coming Sarah part three you'll get to see the whole the whole case and all the reasonings and seeming Arguments and all the different things it's this idea that there's a government a ruling body that has to protect That's what we really got when we watched Snowden It's and that's what we've seen too through our messengers over the years and Anywhere conflict arises at all. There's protectionism Something needs to be protected to be with Projects volunteers could be with Protecting a country protecting a body Protecting a group of people doesn't really matter. You know the answer is always in my defenselessness My safety lies It's coming to be convinced that there's nothing that needs protection But that takes a whole hearted Faith and that's what that final song to that was leading into that was all about, you know, there's nothing to need to hide or hold back You know, that's the only way you come to an experience that there's nothing to defend And there's nothing to protect As it goes against all of our hero movies What would Batman be without protectionism? What would? Superman be Wonder Woman. What would Robin Hood be What would all these great Movies that people flock to see over and over and over be without Protectionism wouldn't be any faith in the movies at all They wouldn't be blockbusters. They wouldn't be anything So it's you know, that's that's what these cases are seemingly playing out between Universities and Christian student unions and and Christian and believers and non-believers and government and all these things You know, you can just remember from the course truth That's not fight against illusions nor do illusions battle with the truth illusions battle only With themselves And that's the only lesson there is to learn that this was a world of complete illusion There's not some that are bigger stronger superior inferior Some that some illusions that win some illusions that lose Some illusions that succeed some illusions That fail. They are all equally the same and that Experience is end of game game over so it's just curiosity. I'm sure God's not dead three will explore how a government could subpoena sermons over the past three months for what reason What suspicion? Doesn't really matter what the details are. I would guarantee you there's some form of protectionism Going on in prosecution I Just like tripod almost identical she's back Same Same He hasn't even seen the snow yet our weather forecast for the night Yeah, I'm really good at Getting down to the core of the teachings. I think she wasn't like sure during the movie was the answer to who do you say that? I am with him. She never said the answer in that music. I Love that part. Yeah Stand up. Yeah Yeah, it's always that way the mind's playing hide-and-seek with itself, but but you know everything's Dissermant lesson and in the end that the teacher of God can heal the world without a sound so in the end the recognition of Who I am is all that's required and there's really in the end. That's why there's no court cases required There's no prosecution. There's no defense. There's no need to defend God There's you know in the end. It's a recognition in the mind That that is what it's all about and if there are situations where Seems to be there's a call to speak something then Then you have to face any kind of fear that that something could be lost or something could be harm I think in my the parable of David I do know that I remember traveling around around doing all these talks and sharing and then Kathy Martin was my assistant and one time she said Oh, there's a message while you were gone How traveling the message came in and you've been invited to speak at a church. There's nothing new about that But I was invited to speak at Zion United Church of Christ The church where the body of David was confirmed the church where I had to grow up and Listen to all these sermons and go to many different meals and Founders Hall and all these kind of things So it's quite interesting that that's what the invitation was to come and speak at that church Which was more again orchestrated by God and the Holy Spirit to say oh you want to walk right back into Anything that seems to be a past association You know how they say the hardest one to forgive is the one that's Closest that's most dear, you know because of the meanings and associations with it. So I Was like, what did you say the name of the church was? Zion's United Church of Christ it turns out that my biological father had because the the minister had been on had gone through a near-death experience and that he'd been on Oprah at that point, but he'd written extensively he's Preaching working into his his sermons and and basically yeah, I was in he decided to Hold a class in the church on mysticism and saints the mystics and the saints in a standard Christian Protestant church so Jack started going to the Things and he learned about Saint Teresa of Avila and he'd learned St. Francis And he was listening to all the mystics and saints Christian basically a lot of Christian Saints and everything and then finally at some point during these weeks of class Jack was like oh My son David is Is one of them I One of what the minister said and then Jack said I think I think you should invite him to come to this class come to the church The minister said he's always welcome. Everyone is welcome and Jack said because he's one of them One of what I mean he just couldn't Is teaching a class on all the great mystics and saints, but he couldn't comprehend the question What one of what he's welcome, but what are you talking? What are you talking about? so when I did go there they had a meal there and Minister was showing slide shows and and films of of his trip to Belize where he went down to help people Rebuild and like have a tough for humanity build and and as he kept showing the the Slides of these children in Belize. They all were beaming and smiling all were happy and It was the minister's daughter who said what are you doing in Belize said? You're not helping them Look at them fate look at their faces They don't need help And he was like Again, these are deep lessons, but but also after I there he was there and Some people had a big meal and some stayed behind and for me and he came to me and he said Well, I would like to be here while you're here, but I have to go visit a pastor a minister who's been diagnosed with cancer So he smiled at me and he said So I leave my flock to you and how he goes and Then I just went gave talks in that church like I give it any Any location over here in this room? I just went deeper and deeper and deeper and God didn't create this world and Just let the spirit come through I have nothing to protect Nothing to defend and I had no association with that place. It's being any different than any other So that's the one where it went deeper and deeper and deeper into a stillness. We just went It took us so deep into this deep stillness and then as we went into the stillness It got very it's just all stillness and Finally after a while of just complete stillness in Zion United Church of Christ, then One of the elderly women of the congregation said spoke up and broke the stillness and said who is Speaking to us now she said And there was such a quietness and such a stillness and such a The I am presence was so strong and I felt no need to give a word or a name to it but My biological father Jack was on hand and he looked around at his wife and his daughter and the whole congregation of his church and he went Jesus Jesus is speaking to us now And on the inside I thought That's the end of the world That's it It's over It's official. I thought it's official When your biological father says that in front of his wife and daughter and the congregation and the minister's gone and I went Thought there's no more I can speak You can't top that So that's the that's the answer who has what this movie is about who do you say that I am And then she said I heard Jesus speak to me so That's like the unspeakable thing in a courtroom, but That was what the her attorney felt was Absolutely necessary, you know was the one thing that's unspeakable Which of course this whole world was made to cover that over You know the the world doesn't ego doesn't want that question Ever to be asked because it asked the first question. That was the first question ever asked was what am I? It's a little too risky when you get down to that point To the original question because behind the original question is the original Experience of reality and ego doesn't want that Reminds me this movie reminds me of an Al Pacino movie from many many years an old Al Pacino movie and justice for all Where at the very end of the movie he Al Pacino Speaks to the jury speaks to the whole crowd and turns around and he's He gets up and he goes there. They're slamming the gavel saying You're out of order because he just starts Speaking in an unfiltered way in the courtroom and then Pacino goes. I'm out of order Looks at the crowd you're out of order. He looks at the jury. He's you're out of order He turns right over to the judge and he says and you're out of order He points to the whole thing and says you're out of order But I was telling a few people Francis, I think that Jennifer Anderson was just on Good Morning America and Yeah, she They were Started to question her and quiz her about the divorce Evangelina Jolie and her ex-husband Yeah on Good Morning America and she lost it she lost it She was like she turned furious and angry and she said you're asking me about this when You know a black man held his hands up It was on the nightly news at that their very same day and held his hands up and and was shot and Tulsa and Killed and you're you at the nerve and she just on Good Morning America It's like the Julia Roberts miss goody two shoes and the one that everyone loves the most.  She starts ranting and raving and just firing it up like how dare you ask about that when We've got things that we need to deal with she said what about people. Where are the people? How can this happen? You know, she's just venting her Rage rage against the machine From Jennifer Aniston, I could just see people at home who tune in for the last 30 540 years Let's see that's what that whole song was the last song that we saw You know, you have to speak it up You can't stuff it down. It's not going away And after we did our show out of the blue comes Francis zoo then yeah a friend Dan Wrote to me email titled rage That was the title of the email rage And he could feel it when he's golfing when he's out Doing the everyday ordinary things he can feel Under the surface. It's down there. It's bubbling And and that song at the end there was perfect for that There's a perfect No people pleasing no private thoughts that's a theme song anthem almost at the end there very beautiful lyrics those could be like printed out or the song could be sung at the beginning of Expression sessions lest you forget how important it is and think it's just another day you could play that song at the end how important it is Yeah That we practice those Principles, yeah, that was one of the lines that go out there and write and I noticed I thought that was strange But I guess you do if you don't raise your despair your frustration your rage and your anger authentically exactly as it's coming then Even the purity of the silent response that you're also talking about Yeah, yeah Yeah, that's what Jennifer Edison did. I'm good morning America. She raised the riot And she was quoted Oh Yeah, if you wanted a heartwarming video, I I earliest morning I got up and I I went in before the internet went out and I was I posted that George Harrison song and Then they have all these other suggested songs and they put his last appearance his last performance So I was like, oh, what was that? So I clicked on that and he stopped by VH one with his friend Ravi Shankar to promote Ravi's But it was like a 41 minute video, but oh my god. I just had tears of joy watching it and listening to it because Oh, it's so profound. It's so much right that was back in 1997 But it's so much white what is right here amongst us right now George Harrison coming on there was just a few people that were going to get some soundbites to do a little PR thing and He started talking about he said I I'm quite confused when I look at the world because I see people running around and so busy and All of these years of my life have showed me for what? There's nothing Nothing to do nothing to pursue He said the only question is Is What is death and how do I escape from it? So that's absolutely the only thing worth Focusing your mind on and looking at and nothing else And then We started talking about the essence we have an essence and our essence sees the world perfectly It's always been perfect and that's our whole point is to find to find that there's no other point to life and And he started a really who the spirit was just ripping through him on VH1 just ripping and then the young like VJ that had invited him on there was just like and Then George just looked into the eyes of this. I hope I'm not being too transcendental and the young VJ was like no you're not and Viting him to go more and he just he said He said, yeah, that's that's what it's all about and and he just spoke he just channeled spirit spirit spirit spirit and then Finally a woman who had come in who who had followed him in George in was one of the VH VH1 staff had brought in a guitar And so she stuck the guitar or they brought the guitar over and they thought it was George's guitar But it was just a woman who showed up on the spot with this tiny little PR promotion with the guitar so he's They didn't even know if he would stay he didn't do television appearances But they gave him the guitar and he did an impromptu concert taking requests and singing and Then I listened to his profound songs and he was having so much fun and One after the other other and they all were just like totally swept up in it And it was so precious and then I just waited I was laying in my bed to hear what's okay This is his last appearance on earth. What's What's it gonna be?  I was in there just for that little video And then of course I posted the other one give me love give me love even peace on earth and Marilyn over in Holland She said I'm gonna learn that song and on the guitar and play it so just kind of rippled out across the ocean and over to Europe and Very sweet Give me love give me love give me peace on earth Give me life. Give me life. Keep me free as a bird Give me hope help me cope with this heavy load and I ain't through Trying to reach you with heart and so Is Sweetie climbs to the top first dry clean On top of the world safe and clueless


Okay, we're back here inside the cube. This is SiliconANGLE's exclusive coverage of OpenStack. This is the cube where we go out to the events, then extract the signal from the noise, and we've got one of our favorite companies that we like these days is Hortonworks, mainly because, one, they're in Palo Alto. Two, they are in the Hadoop space, which we've been covering since Hadoop Summit, second year of Hadoop Summit when SiliconANGLE started in Cloudera's office. And you've got Cloudera and Hortonworks, really the two main guns that we've got. Cloudera and Hortonworks, really the two main guns in the open source. Hadoop, in terms of pure open source, but you guys are a little bit more pure than Cloudera. Jim Walker, who is the director of product marketing here at Hortonworks. Guys, I'm really impressed, you have an announcement today, so let's get right to the news. Hortonworks is Hadoop. It's open source. The entire team has legacy in open source going back to the days of... All the way back to Jboss. Jboss and Spring Source and all that stuff. So you guys know a little bit about open source. And here, the success of OpenStack has just been amazing that they really shielded up the hype, kept the kernel of core dudes together with code, and really is a shining example of success of open source. And the continuing drumbeat of our editorial, which is Scale Out Open Source wins in this new market of modern infrastructure. So give us the news of Hortonworks here at OpenStack. Yeah, first of all, I mean, this is amazing. I guess I'm kind of new to the whole OpenStack world. I can't believe there's another space that's as wildly as exciting as Hadoop right now. It's kind of like this whole other world going on, right? So this is great. So what we're doing here is, we feel that Hadoop is just a really powerful source for adoption of OpenStack, right? We feel that it's kind of almost the perfect app to help aid adoption of OpenStack. I think if we look at organizations the way they're using servers, the way that adoption is happening, it's really following the workloads. And Hadoop is really kind of that net new workload that we're finding organizations adopting throughout. And so if you think about that and start to say, well, how am I going to implement infrastructure for that, Hadoop makes a whole lot of sense. Now Hadoop needs the cloud from an agility point of view. If I could spin up clusters, spin clusters down, be more agile with my Hadoop environments, it's hugely important for Hadoop. So it's a really good fit. So you guys announced something with Red Hat and Morantis? Yeah. So the announcement really is to help aid that, right? And so working with Morantis started a project called Project Savannah. It was a couple of weeks ago they announced that, right? So we've partnered with Red Hat and Morantis to really, I guess the words are, contribute significantly to really build that out. Savannah's really all about simplifying management and deployment of Hadoop on OpenStack. Hadoop's not simple in itself to deploy. It's an operations point of view. It's not fully simple. And then you have the complexity of OpenStack as well. So we really want to make it almost push button. So taking a Hadoop cluster, say I want to run an H-based cluster for a test, being able to provision that very quickly via templates or blueprints of what a cluster is, really what we're kind of all after. Well, let me just parse through that. I'll just say it. Hadoop is hard to work with. H-based in particular is a lot harder because you've got to have the expertise and you've got to host it, where you've got DynamoDB on Amazon kicking butt right now. And also they've got Elastic MapReduce on Amazon. So you're seeing that people want simplicity and they want choice, which is kind of like, I'm not saying OpenStack. I mean Hadoop is hard, hard to use. For the average developer, it's got to get simpler. There's a lot of configurations, John. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. There's a lot of configurations when you deploy a cluster and to optimize that for the right performance. There's a lot of things that you're doing. So how do I make that push button? Because the infrastructure guy doesn't want to have to worry about configuring all that. And so really that's what production is all about. And it's key. It's key for adoption. I think that is the key thing. And I tweeted earlier. I said Hadoop presents at OpenStack. Oh, that's the wrong tweet. Hadoop is a non-legacy app. I want you to comment on this. Hadoop is a non-legacy app well suited for scale out OpenStack architecture. Still lots of work to do, but opportunity for developers. Juan, do you agree with that? Or you must, because I see the open source piece. But what is the opportunity for developers? For the developers, I mean, just the combination of the two. I mean, it's the net new workloads that we're having in organizations, John.  That thing's kind of coming off there. You know, if we think about net new analytics, the whole kind of move towards big data. Mobile. They're kind of moving along in the same path. So I mean, I think it is the perfect app for OpenStack. I mean, it's, like I said, it's driving those workloads. And I think that's where the opportunity is. But you have to simplify it, right? And so our goal is to really fuel and foster the adoption of Hadoop everywhere. It doesn't obviate anything. It's a plus one in architecture, right? What are you guys bringing to the table? Code? Are you guys bringing more resources? You're hiring? You've been to throw some people at the OpenStack summit? You mean to the OpenStack world? What do we bring? Yeah, code.  I didn't mean that.  You guys are doing amazing work in the Hadoop space. And you guys are pioneering it. And actually getting a lot of, you know, I think you might even be in the lead, as far as, you know, Dave and I, Dave Vellante and I debate that all the time. We think you have a lead over, over Cloudera right now. And certainly them not being here is kind of a diss on Cloudera and kudos to you. But specifically to OpenStack, because that's where the enterprise is going to start to get around that. It's a great go to market for you guys to get in the enterprise through this community. And so, you know, what are you guys going to bring to the OpenStack? Just code. I mean, code and expertise.  There's complexities of OpenStack. You know, it's the beauty of the open source world, right? The fastest path to innovation is open source. You know why? Because you can get all the right people in the room to code the right thing. And that's just, you know. I'll follow up with that, Jeff, because we had a conversation a week or so ago and we were talking really about the innovation. But now this is kind of the second order of open source, where you've got kind of an integration of Hadoop and what it represents in terms of storage and the big data. And then you've got this cloud infrastructure. And so kind of being really intimate with one and jumping in with both feet on the second. How do you see, you know, kind of a combination? And there's another one we heard down with the networking guys down in San Francisco today. So now that there are more kind of open source foundation clusters. I don't know if that's the right way to describe it and how they interact and how is that impacting how you guys view the world and where you spend your time and resources. Yeah, it goes back to kind of where John was going in terms of the intersection of how these things come together. And if, you know, if you look at the three companies in our release this morning, it's Red Hat, Morantis and us, right? So you have Red Hat, who is the leading contributor to OpenStack within the Grizzly release, right? So more lines of code than anybody. You have Morantis, who is definitely one of the leading system integrators within, you know, the OpenStack world, right? So now you have the guys who built it. You have the guys who implement it. And now you're bringing together the, you know, the leading contributor to Apache Hadoop and all the related projects. I mean, anybody could do the math around code counts and committers. And I'm not going to get into that kind of debate, but I mean, you have the three different groups coming together to actually promote now simplifying Hadoop on OpenStack. It's bringing the right people together. We were talking about this last week. It's just so much, it just makes sense. You get all the right people in the room. It just makes sense. You're going to be able to get there a lot faster than a proprietary firm. And you put the right services and support around that. It's just a really good business model. Did you hear the Red Hat thing earlier? The Brian Stevens say, you know, open source is a development model, not a business model. It is. It's a development model. And if you think about that. I actually think, I think, I would say both. I mean, they're not mutually exclusive. I mean, look at Rackspace. Rackspace's halo effect. They moved the ball down the field in a matter of three years with OpenStack. I was having customers with Jim Currie. He'll be on tomorrow. And Lou Mormon, the president at the time of that division when they had cloud sites. They could have owned this thing on their own. They could have completely bow guarded this community and tried to kind of throw a little bit of a red herring community out there and take it in house. Because they needed to build. What OpenStack did to me is an example of the business model open source. They said, you know what? We're going to be completely transparent. We're going to put and contribute resources. And the tide will rise all the boats, being the biggest boat in the harbor. And that worked. Look at them. And they're just significantly more scalable. They're leveraging all the work of the people in the community. That's a home run. And John, that last word is the key, right? So there's open source. Anybody can push code out in the GitHub. That's open source, okay? I mean, building a community around that and incenting that community to actually contribute and take part in it. And for the common good of everybody, that's not easy to do. And it takes... They walk the talk. They walk the talk. They walk the talk. And they brought code to the table. And that's the ethos here in the OpenStack community. Bring some code to the table. And you're in. It's the cover charge. That's the question, though. Everyone seems... It's been a consistent theme. Everyone we've talked to over the last couple of days is, wow, look at the size of this community. Wow, look at how fast this has grown. Wow, look at... By luck or happenstance, the governance that's been put in place to enable this just really rapid adoption and growth. So from your point of view and with more experience in another community, what is the magic pixie dust? What is it that's really given this thing the juice to grow and be as successful as it's been? Passion, dude. Look around. Look around you. Everybody here is super passionate about this stuff. Every session I've been to, I don't know if it's because the rooms aren't big enough, but there's people waiting outside to go and watch this stuff. Developers are passionate. I mean, I'm an ex-developer. I was a developer for eight. Yeah. We go weird. It's like... When you're into it, you're into it. Yeah. Jim, our expression with theCUBE is we go to the events to extract a signal from the noise. Well, there's too much signal here. We need another cube. There's not a lot of noise. And David Floyd and I were talking about that. Really? There's not a lot of vendor hype here. You get the marketing, some PR going on. You have some releases going out. The booths are modest. It's really all meat and potatoes. It's all code, user-based customers. And the guy from OpenStack put up that slide earlier. He's like, here's the platform. It's great software. Innovative ecosystem and successful users. And that's the holy trinity of open source. And they're demonstrating it. It's a nuance that really can't be lost and it's super important, John. And if you're going to build a company around open source and Hortonworks, we are all about that. I mean, it's really about incenting that community. It's about being friendly to the developer. I mean, we think every day about not being overly marketed to people because it's... The community is absolutely important to us. We are a huge part of that community. You guys are very transparent. I was very critical of Hortonworks when you guys launched out of Yahoo because I was at the time, Cloudera was like the shining star. And it looked like kind of a head fake. What's going on Yahoo? And within six months, it was very clear that you guys were putting all the cards on the table, a great group of guys. And you stayed true. And Kudos to even MapR, right? So MapR, again, another great company in the open source base. They never really head faked anybody. They're like, hey, you know what? We're enterprise. We're going to check all the boxes. And we're just not them. We're enterprise. We'll use Hadoop. And they stayed on their course. So I think that is really the key. But I want to ask you about OpenStack. What do you think from a biz dev standpoint, product market standpoint, the success of the OpenStack will be in the big data world. Because at the top of the stack, you have analytics, mobile, and a lot of big data applications. What's your take on that part of the stack? You mean from an OpenStack? Yeah. And what needs to be checked off and what needs to be worked on the white spaces? Yeah. I mean, from a net new analytics to a Hadoop to OpenStack kind of configuration, there's a lot of talk about, you know, how does HDFS work with Swift? And, you know, am I storing in TrivaKit? There's a lot of issues that have to be kind of solved from a nuts and bolts around the stores side of things. Not our biggest concern, I think initially. Initially, we're more focused on kind of making it easy to deploy. Because it's two groups of people.  And they don't talk. They just kind of like expect each other to work. They really make it simple for the infrastructure guy. And that's, you know, bringing Hadoop expertise into OpenStack and making it work. And that's what Savannah's all about. I mean, I think you guys have the Marantis guys on next, right? Yes, he's right there. The CEOs are coming on right next. And we're going to talk about the service. And obviously, to manage services side, it's huge. I got to ask you about HBase. Okay? We're a big fan of HBase. We actually use HBase and some of our code that we use for our collection of listening tools. But one thing about HBase is you know, like a tailored suit. Once you do it, it fits great. But it's got to get easier. Any update on you from Hortonworks on HBase, easier because when you get to a cloud environment, you've got to be versatile. Can you comment on that? Yeah. So, I mean, you know, the HBase community is absolutely moving very fast as well. So there's a lot of things going on. The HBase community make it simple. And that's from, you know, from the Apache side of the world. I think what we're doing with Savannah just fits very well into that. It goes back to this whole, you know, if you're going to use a piece of Hadoop, you've got to go through all these configurations. How do I make that simple? How do I create, you know, excuse me? How do I create blueprints so I can just knock something out very quickly? And that's the part of the management and monitoring of a Hadoop cluster that's actually super, super important. Because once you optimize what your HBase environment looks like, how do I actually then, you know, take that and replicate that or use that over and over again? And that's blueprints and templates become extremely important for that.  Let's make it simple. So how's Rob Bearden doing these days? Because I want to ask you a question about a question and not ask him if he was here. The business model of Hortonworks.  So I want you to give the update on what's new with Hortonworks as a company. You know, not the open stack stuff, because we just covered that. And then the red hat for Hadoop has always been kicked around as Cloudera had that label on it. And then there's been quite a debate. We had Pat Gelsinger on the Cube two years ago saying there'll never be a red hat for Hadoop. Madisay and I got on a little thing on Twitter about, you know, can there be multiple versions?  Is it, what's happening? Help us dissect that.  I mean, we have stayed true to our mission from day one. I mean, we are all about fueling and fostering the adoption of Hadoop in the larger enterprise. We don't want to obviate up the stack. We know where we fit. You know, Hadoop is part of your overall data architecture of the future. And we know where it fits. And for us, it's making sure that everybody in the world uses Hadoop. And so we are marching on that path. The only difference between, you know, probably when I talk to you or anybody's talked to you five months ago as opposed to today is the rate at which customers are coming to us and paying customers. Not just people using HGP. You know, it's across every vertical you can think of, John. It's financial services firms. Of course, a lot of retail guys, a lot of telecom guys.  And your business model is still service. And it's still services and support. So, you know, we aren't selling software. We aren't building proprietary extensions on top of Hadoop. We are pure producers of Hadoop. There's, you know, in the open source world, you have packages and producers. You have guys who use the open source core and build on top of that. That's the beauty of Apache. We love that, right? And then there's the pure people who are actually producing. We produce. And so, you know, our game is to make sure that really Hadoop becomes that enterprise viable data platform. And in order to be enterprise viable, it's got to be stable. It's got to be reliable. The enterprise has to trust it. You can't hire all these people to manage a thing. It's got to be simple. The part of the stuff we're talking about is simplicity. And trust. And that's what we're all about. So, you guys are getting some good buzz here. I tweeted that earlier. But Cloudera is not here.  Can you talk about how you guys are competing against Cloudera now? Is it still the same? Can you just give us an update on, you know, the Horton versus Cloudera? And I thought I want to get into a little war there. But, you know, it's important. You know, you aren't going to bait me into saying anything really bad.  I mean, they're out there. They're doing the drum beat around Hadoop as well. You know, they've got a lot of guys, really smart guys on the street doing some things. They're doing some great things with a lot of really cool projects out there. Do I like competing against somebody? I love competing. You know, it just, it makes the whole market better. And I think they're a formidable competitor. And they're doing great things. So, you know, we, I like to win. And we win a lot, you know, against them. And I'm sure they've won against us, but... That's a non-answer. Come on. Give us an answer. What do you want from me?  But they're open source. It's a knife fight. We don't... They're not here to defend themselves. I have to defend them for you. They're a lot of guys I like. So, there's a lot of guys on that team. I feel like, you know, the funny thing is about an open source community. They've got a lot of committers at Cloudera, right? And we've got a lot of committers at Hortonworks. You know, when they all get together, it's a Hadoop summit, you know, coming up and later in June. It's funny. They're all friends. They all talk about their wives and their kids. And so, you know... We love Cloudera too. Director of Product Marketing here inside the Cube. Hortonworks. Again, you've got Cloudera and Hortonworks. The two main horses in the open source Hadoop. Pure world. Thanks for coming on the Cube. Great to be here. And great move. I think Hortonworks is a great enterprise. In addition to your portfolio. Huge. And I think making this developer community and fusing those together gives you a leg up on Cloudera. I think it's a major fall for Cloudera not to be here at this event. I think they're missing something here. And so, Cloudera, you know, pay attention to OpenStack. We are here at the OpenStack Summit. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE. We'll be right back with our next guest after this short break.


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