Okay, esteemed panelists, will you please introduce yourselves to us? Yes, so I'm Jess Bautista. I'm really excited to be here. I am a second year PhD student in the School of Education, and I have a toddler, I have a two year old, so he came with me to Michigan. But also just like as a parent, like, I don't know where y'all are or what's happening, or as a caregiver so like you do you. And I'm really glad that y'all could all be here. Nice meeting you everyone. My name is Ron Hanhall. I am a sports year PhD candidate in the joint program in Social Work and Psychology. My second nickname, I'm supposed to be fifth year, but I did end up taking a Medicaid when I was given birth to my child is now 18 months. And he was a NICU graduate and now he's healthy. But definitely I had a lot of unexpected pregnancy issues and even my child going to NICU during my PhD and yeah, I was able to receive kind of good support from U of M and hopefully that my experience can also just encourage you guys as well. Hello everyone, welcome. I'm so glad to see so many people at this session. My name is Ansley. I'm going to be an eighth year and the MD PhD program here at U of M wrapping up my PhD right now. And near the end of that, I did not come into school with children but I've had two babies during my PhD. I have a three year olds and a five month old so I just had my second in March so I've done this twice now but I'm really excited to just answer your questions and get to know you guys. Hi, I'm Sam. Again, a ninth year candidate in the sociology department and I am a caregiver my partner developed a really debilitating chronic illness. Well, disability about four years ago and lost sort of care, taking abilities for herself and so I stepped in. And so that will be this perspective that I'll be coming from. Okay, so thank you for introducing yourselves to us. I would like you to share with us what you wish you knew in your first year and either in your first year here or your first year as a parent or caregiver. Um, so first year here at Michigan I mean first year as a parent like oh but first year here at Michigan. One of the things that I really wish I had known and it's in my background right now is I did not realize how much of the support and subsidies that the university offers actually come like our union fought for in Union one. I just didn't know that right and so I sort of took the university's line of like, we are giving you these great subsidies and the subsidies are amazing. But they didn't just give them to us like we fought for them. So like kind of knowing some of the background of where these things really came from and how to access all of them. There's a lot of like as parents and caregivers were super busy. There's a lot going on and so it's sometimes hard to find the resources you're looking for. So things like you have a free care calm account. You have access to a parent caregiver study space in the undergraduate library it's in the basement, but you have access to it's really nice and there's like stuff kids can play and books kids can read in there. And it's like pretty big and roomy so if you can't find a study space, go to the library like that room is always available to you I think you have to get a passcode but the there's a parent caregiver group that. So you sign up for their emails and you get the passcode stuff like that like some of the resources that are maybe not like so obvious but it can be really helpful when you need them. I think for me, some of the things I really wish I knew and the process of doing that these days is just able to like connect with mentors for not your advisors and it is definitely okay to be connected and receive support from those who kind of had a similar experience as you. So for me, both of my advisors are male professors and they are fathers but definitely have a very different experience being childcare experiences so you know able to get connected with different professors who were able to help you during your birth, during PhD or during during your like a tenure assistant professorship and just able to connect with them was really helpful and one of the things that that gave me a lot of anxiety and what I've taken in that later I found out that, or the really helpful later. Definitely after our first year is that there's no great time to have child. And the time you make a decision to have a child is like the best time so work his stuff. And if you if you feel like like a right time to do that, you know with the right support from right support mentorship I think it's definitely doable. I'm actually really excited for having first PhD students having kids, while there's definitely going to be some hurdles and opposition deal with a both explicitly inclusive way so knowing that balance is definitely helpful. I, when I started my full program so I actually started like in med school for a couple years. I didn't think it would even be possible for me to have kids during this phase of life I hadn't seen anyone do it. So I just kind of thought I just was like well I have to wait, because it's just not going to happen then and it was actually seeing. So I was my very first year, and it was actually near that in the middle of my second year that there were two women, four or five years ahead of me in the program who were both pregnant and that was the first time I saw people be pregnant in this in this phase of our careers and then training. And that really struck me because I just didn't think that was possible. And so I wish I had known when I started the program because I knew I wanted to have children and I just didn't know when I could do it. That it was possible to do it so you guys are already ahead of me because you're already here and you haven't even started your program yet. And seeing parents in the program and you know people that are still thriving, I think is really important to see so I'm glad that I got to see that and when I came to the PhD phase of my program. By then I was like I know I can do this. I need to find support the mentors as well. And that was really important to knowing that I would be supported during this phase of our life. I wish I'd known that becoming a caregiver would cause would affect my progress in the program and would prolong my progress in the program and like not not in any negative way but there was a lot of resistance and internally on my end of like trying to keep up and also trying to make my caregiving responsibilities and like falling short on both sides and like feeling horrible. That was like a good six months, because I just I wasn't accepting the situation that I was in really and understanding that like there will be times like there will be months when like I am going to be able to give to my, there were months when I just didn't do any work, especially because like my partner's disability is very nonlinear. There were months when there are a lot of flare ups and then there are months when she's really good and so like the months when she's not that great like, let it go, I let it go I will finish this program when I finished this program you know what I mean, and I really wish that I had accepted that earlier they would have brought a lot more ease and a lot less stress in my life if I had allowed myself to be where I was, rather than where I thought I should be. Okay, thanks y'all for letting us know what you wish you had known in your first year. Now would you share with us what you wish you had done in your first year. Um, so I did some of this but I wish I had done a little bit more of it is just like finding out who other parents are both in terms of faculty and students. Because that can actually be really helpful information as was kind of already mentioned, and then sort of making like a parent group like I have a couple of other people that I talked to that have kids my age that they're not in my program, but they're a great source of support and will, especially like I was coming from Texas so it's a very different place to be here. So I had a friend that was telling me about Patagonia does second hand clothing for kids that's like warm winter clothes I think it's called worn wear. That was a big deal for me because it's like good quality clothes that are half the price and I didn't want new stuff for my kid because he's going to wear it for three days. So like, you know getting to know those people and then also doing like some of the fun stuff that's for your low cost, which I definitely wanted to mention because like there's a lot of really like one of the reasons we decided to come to Michigan is that it felt family friendly. There's a lot of green space. There's the downtown library is free to go to and has like amazing toys in it like my kid loves going there.  So stuff stuff like that dominoes farms there's another like white lotus farm, where you can just like feed the animals and just hang out outside. Stuff like that is is really really nice and it's like some of it is you need a car for but some of it is is close by. So trying to do more of that stuff. I think also like kind of to what Sam was talking about. I cannot relate to having a mid program life change. So like, I completely under like here where you're coming from. For me, coming in with a kid. I was like, I can't work all the time. I can't do it so in some ways it was kind of a blessing because I'm sure like many of you like PhD type a perfectionist like tries too much. So it helps me to like tone down that side of myself and try to relax, because when you're caregiving like that's all you're doing. I think that I wish I could have done better at the same time I am still thankful for where I'm at as this being little more strategic about how to have a child and how to afford a child. I guess what I'm saying is like, there's definitely time that's really busy and there's definitely time they're not busy. So, you know, like I got advice like that time to have a child and write up your dissertation, which that's what I was planning but then I had a pregnancy issue so that I actually had to have a child before dissertation, and not dissertation So I feel like there's definitely things that I was trying my best to prepare to leave and have this time away at the same time I did not know that pregnancy can just complicated very quickly at least for me and just knowing that is a possibility and knowing that not every pregnancy is going to be smooth was something that I wish I knew better. So, although, you know, able to kind of offense on time, like after to go a semester up, it was definitely a stress to have a newborn child and trying to take my prelims, because that timeline didn't work out so I think if I could have gone back maybe I would have given myself a little more buffer, instead of thinking that everything will happen according to I'll kind of frame this as like what I wish I did the first year when I did have a child. So I echo what was kind of been said before of like finding these resources and knowing that they're out there and finding these other parents or parent groups. So I think really, really when like COVID started that, and that's the one I had like my, my first child was in 2020. So that was like already a very isolating experience so then trying to find a community was a little harder at that time but there were I think, I feel like a lot of student groups kind of really popped up at that time to reach out and try to create community and response and so I did eventually find some more of these like student parent groups and I was able to connect with some more people kind of going through the same phase of life so I encourage you to, you know, reach out to those groups before get on listservs email us serves even if you don't have children yet, or you're planning to at some point I think it's helpful to already be tuned into those resources and that's something I wish I knew before I even got pregnant because even during pregnancy, there's still resources available to us and things that they'd want to know in the community about. I wish I, what I wish I'd done when the first year I became a caregiver was to communicate my situation to my advisor to my chair to my grad director, I didn't, I thought that I could do this alone. And that was, I eventually needed to communicate, because, you know, I was, I was no longer hitting the marks and when I had said I was going to hit marks, and then it was like, Sam you've been, you've like your, like life circumstances changed like nine months ago to almost a year ago and like you're just now letting us know they were not upset in any way they were incredibly understanding incredibly patient and incredibly just like open and I wish I had also known that that it would have been okay to communicate immediately like this is what I'm going through so then we could have made a plan. And so I wondered how to have been like those six to nine months such as like freaking out and being myself up and like just struggling alone. Yeah, so I just communication upfront immediately like my circumstances have changed. I don't know, I don't know for how long I did not think it was going to be this long but you never do right. But yeah, communication. I find that the people at Michigan at least in my department are incredibly understanding. I'm grateful for that but it's also not something that I assumed they would be and I guess that's on me. Okay, y'all. So, now that you've shared with us what you wish you had done in your first year, can you please share with us the best things that helped you when you first either got here or first became a parent here. Well, actually what I was going to share is really related to Sam what you were saying and again I came in as a parent, right, like did not have that circumstance change when I got here, but communicating what I was going to be able to do and when I was going to be able to do it and for how long and when I wasn't going to be able to, and that like was super helpful for me so like I don't do anything from 430 to eight. I just don't. That's family time it's blocked off on my calendar. If something comes up that I really want to do, then I'll talk to my partner about it and we'll see if I can go right which usually like he's an amazing partner dad, whatever. He's not the issue. But like really having that conversation and like I will hedge this with, I have a super supportive advisor and most of the people in the School of Education are pretty kid oriented. I know that's not always true right. I would also say I asked for things that I later found out other people had like wanted to also ask for and so I would strongly encourage you to ask for the things that you need. For example, I had a week long orientation when I can't like last year, and I had childcare and then I didn't have childcare anymore, and my partner was working in Detroit and so I was like, I really want to go because I want to network. I don't feel like I should be excluded because all these other people are going to go and meet each other and like build this community and that is what is can be so hard to build when you're a parent or caregiver. So it's like this is, that's not okay for me. So I just asked them hey, I have a 15 month old, can they come with me, and he came every single day they were super supportive again I know that's not going to be true everywhere but what were my other my other options are just not going right and it ended up being like people will see me and be like, oh, you're the one that brought your kid every day and I'm like, oh hey that's fantastic, like from my perspective I think that's great, making kids more visible and accepted members of our society is definitely something that I am on board for. But we live in this like grind work culture, and that's so different here right and so sometimes we have to advocate for it so if you're feeling brave enough to do that know that at least one person here is supporting you. I think my thoughts are kind of on a similar line with jazz, I think in some sense, like normalizing having a child, and you know, like, you have the power and time to make decision on what that would look like for you. I really saw always like, you know one of the practical way of exercising a woman's right for me, or just like advocating for a woman in higher education was actually normalizing child care and experience and so like you have similar way like, instead of asking people like I'm going to bring a child especially like I mean that like maybe some, I mean some meetings I even but like, but there's definitely meetings I feel like it's actually okay for me to brain like I would just, you know, be like, you know, ask like oh can I bring a child where like, oh hey I'm going to I would have to bring a child and just kind of like give them that notice and I always saw that working I don't feel uncomfortable like the first time but then they're realizing oh this is like part of life and this is part of like what we really need like if we're really starting for DI as the university says like these are some of the diversity in the DI efforts as well. That's like one thing. Another thing is and I think this is also something that everyone have to make decision on how comfortable they are but you know for some people they say oh don't ever talk about wanting to have a kid or having a kid and then something for like, no it's okay to talk about it and I think for me I was always very planning to have a child during my PhD, which definitely kind of a polarized like my even my mentors in some sense like I would not get close to certain people because I knew or they had a very like a loose view because they think I'm not going to be good enough or hard working or I will be able to get really strongly connected to other people who really care about like success of individual for child or caregiver so in some sense like I guess like signaling myself as who I am or what I want to do. Yes, sometimes kind of could bring like opposition but I actually saw much more benefits of doing that so this is some of the things that yeah I echo what Jess said. I would say that the things that really helped me feel successful, especially like during pregnancy in my first year with the child where my support system internally, having a lab group that was really supportive of me having a child and my mentor who was incredibly supportive and honestly they're a big reason why my husband and I thought we'd be comfortable doing it again. During this phase, you know I was like you know we did it well I feel like this is the right environment. I didn't want to have to do it when I go back to med school or when I'm in residency, because I know what you know especially the first year or two of it, you know, infancy and everything just very demanding and I was like I don't want to do that much let's be really pregnant during some of these other maybe more consuming parts of my training. So having that was really important and so to do that when I was actually rotating with my research labs and having discussions with mentors and like whether or not I was going to join their group. I told them I'm planning to get married and I'm planning to have a child during this phase of my career and is that something you would support or that you, you know, like how did you, everyone I worked with had children themselves so I was like how did you handle this life decision you know there are people that I interviewed or rotated with who didn't seem as supportive of me doing that in the space of my career and that's part of the reason I didn't choose their labs. So, I just, again, similar to what's kind of been said I was very upfront about what my personal goals were, and that this was going to be something that happened whether they were on board or not. But I really hope that they would be on board and supportive and thankfully, you know the group that I did choose has been incredibly supportive beyond I couldn't like anything I could imagine but it was really important that I vocalize that to begin with and similar to what's been shared about you know issues when childcare has been a problem. My kids have both come to lab with me, like some days I'm like they just got to go, they got to come they come to meetings, they're in zoom meetings with me it's just, that's just the reality I echo what just said about you know, I wish children were a lot more visible in society in general that's something I'm very passionate about as well. And so that's part of that's part of this is that, you know, Sundays, kids just got to go to work, and they, they come and they know what to do and or I just have to adjust what I can do in a day and learning that flexibility mid program was really difficult. Sorry I feel like I'm getting a little, just like going off but of learning, you know, having to adjust to being much more flexible mid program was difficult, but I think in the end it has actually made me a much better student, because I know how to plan my time a lot better than when I just had infinite amounts of time I don't have that so I have to be much more strategic. It makes me a better communicator to ask what I for what I need and what, you know what type of support and accommodations I might need and to, you know, just be patient, because a lot of your PhD test your patients and your children do that too so I definitely can learn a lot more I think by becoming a parent during the program that if I had not. I don't know if I have anything that I can add I feel like everything that has been said about what has helped everyone else is really awesome just what's helped me. I'm getting off of time of like this is when I do not work like there is no other like this, it's not it's not negotiable. It's not happening like this is for. And also I think I just understanding that like, I am no longer a grad student first and I probably shouldn't have ever been a grad student first. That is definitely no longer like my primary identity and sort of communicating that with everyone for instance like when I got this job like I told my my supervisor like there will be, we have random doctors visits throughout the week. You do you know what I mean like there are random hospital visits there at times when I just will not be able to show flexibility and communicating the need for that flexibility or rather that like. How do I put this that this is not the was that flexibility is sort of a non negotiable and that's sort of like asking for it but like that this is, like, if, as something and said like if di is like what Michigan's all about like if this is the supportive environment that you say that it is like then this is who I am and what I come with. And so like, when you hire me this is what you're also getting. And it has worked out great. It has. And sort of in communicating that sort of with everyone that I sort of have to interact with in this academic space has been has worked out really well and it's been, they're super helpful they're really understanding and checking in about like, are you are you sure you have the time for this. And so communicating my needs and also that my needs are not negotiable, I think has been really has helped me and also just like blocking off time as well. And, and echoing what everyone else has said like granted I didn't, I had my advisor before I became caregiver, but, and I am so grateful for the advice that I had finding someone who supports your as a human being and how you show up is so I believe so much more important than like if they match with your research like you need someone to guide you through these next, if you're in a PhD like maybe 10 years. And you can find academic and intellectual and like research mentors without necessarily them being the one who sort of like calls the shots in your, in your academic life like I think having someone who calls the shots in your academic life needs to be someone who understands that your academic life is not your entire life. Okay. So, thank you. Thank you everyone. We will now transition to our Q amp a. And before we do that I want to say that our, my colleague was going to place our evaluation survey in the chat. I want to give favor and just open the link now and this is so you'll have it in a tab ready and waiting for you when we're done. And I want to remind you that we will be moving through this Q amp a by keeping stack. And for those of us who weren't with us when I first explained stack it's just going down the line of those who flag they have a question in order of appearance.  Please speak slowly so that the closed captioning can capture all that you have to say, and also for those who weren't with us at the beginning if you haven't changed your name to the name that you registered with, please do so that we can know that you're here. And I want to remind us that we may not get to every question but we'll provide the panelists email addresses at the end of the Q amp a so that you can reach out to them. Okay, so I know that we have a few questions. Someone asks what monetary support is available for GS eyes daycare prolonging the PhD because of birth. Also, if both parents are PhDs, do we get, do we do they both get benefits or is it only for one of them. Does anybody know this. Can I speak to some of it I can't speak to all of it because I did not have a child here. And I'm, I'm a student right I don't work for the university and so all this is said with the asterisk of look it up. But there is a childcare subsidy and if you Google you miss childcare subsidy you can find it pretty easily. I believe that doesn't really have to do with.  I would highly recommend you do that ASAP, like yesterday, because the funds do run out, but it is substantial I want to say last year I got somewhere around 3000 a semester. I did not get it in the summer because I don't have a screwed up thing that I think would be nice if it change. I think that's the most helpful time is my understanding there's a couple other caveats. There was another part of that oh daycare this is something I really wanted to mention to y'all especially if you're moving from another place. You need to be on all the waiting list for all the places whether they're convenient or affordable just put your name on all of them, because you don't have to pay here to put your name on the list, and there's no availability. I put my name on the list, March, before I was even like the day I got my acceptance maybe even before I was already on list and I just kept adding, I've been taken off, like, I've gotten spots at I want to say two out of maybe 25 places. And I ended up being like you know what the place I currently have is better than going that far, but like, I'm still on all the other places, and you never know because maybe when they're three or four, you still need it and school doesn't start until five here. So like, just be on all the places. Doesn't cost you anything it just takes a day of your time. I don't know about the, the birth stuff. Yes, I can answer some of that as well so there are, I guess, sorry, as far as accommodations for birthing parents so there's actually rackham has a parental leave policy for anyone, a welcoming a child into their family either through birth or adoption. And this is for both the birthing parent as well as a non birthing parent. It's six weeks for a non birthing parent and up to eight weeks for a birthing parent.  So you're expecting or from like an adoption agency I think if that's the plan that you are, if that's the route that you're going with like an estimated time of the child's arrival and like therefore what are eight weeks past that that would be excused. And then it just has to be signed by like your mentor and I think that your department's chair or something, your program chair. There's no issues with that and you do, you can extend your program by a year per child. As part of that policy, it's all part of it's all within that. I think those are like the main question parts of that daycare so if anyone is coming into a medical school program through like PIBs or one of the like biomedical fields. And because you're associated with Michigan Medicine. There's also, so sorry, there are three U of M child care centers here. One of in like the Northwood community there's the Towsley Center which is a central campus and then there's a U of M health system child care center and that one is exclusively for people including students who are affiliated with Michigan medicine and so similar to Jess what I found out I was pregnant with a child I got on a waiting list for that one. And she did not get a spot until she turned one year old. So it was almost like 18 months that we were waiting. We use like private and home care for most of her first year and I actually only worked like three days a week during that first year. Because like childcare is expensive and it's very limited here, as was mentioned. But there are there's subsidies for there's a childcare subsidy that just mentioned but then if you are in with one of the U of M centers they have additional support monetary support or subsidies for their centers specifically. And then the last thing I'll mention, first, regarding some monetary support is, again, if you're applying for any of the F grants to the NIH, again, for like these biomedical programs. If you're awarded either F 30 or F 31, there is a childcare supplement that you can request from NIH, it's $2,500 a year. So it's not nothing. And it's just, it gets dispensed to you and increment each month. That is, it's only earmarked for childcare which they don't like ask for proof of that but I mean, it's only $2,500 a year you're going to use it towards child care so. I'm making sure you have like, you keep track of records and stuff. And I don't know about the question if both parents are PhD since my partner is not in and it does not work here just echo here. Oh, from my understanding of both PhD, I think for financial support, it probably is for household but for like leave and things like that. I think you could like stack it. Thanks y'all. Also, I want to add that we will be having a panel about resources for parents and caregivers and about the third week of September, the week of September 18. We will be holding a panel and it will have more information about things like finances and childcare and finances and grants and stuff like that. So, there's more to come. So someone asks, what are the different groups, maybe parent groups, they're very good. I think one of the big ones that kind of stretches all of campus I think it's meant for anyone at U of m is M cast Michigan caregiver and student parent group. They're the ones that organize or have organized the like study room that just mentioned and they're just a really good way that they've like consolidated a lot of this, this information, like on their website and everything it's a nice kind of just central repository. As far as I don't think this applies to probably many more people in this group but the med school does have their own like parents and medical school group, which has been helpful, which is still just like another central repository for resources regardless if you know you're a grad school or you're in grad school but that's kind of the other big group that I'm familiar with. Yeah, I, I don't really know a ton of groups. I know people that I met who. Oh, you have a two year like anytime anybody says anything about kids, I'm like immediately tell me more. What else how older they what's their name when do you want to do a play date at the library, just because like, I'm saying that somebody else is going through or has gone through something similar to you is super helpful and some of them have turned out to be great friends of mine like some I just wave and check in with right but some I will plan. Oh, when's yours going to bed mine's going to bed now okay well let's go meet up and do work after bedtime. Like, and that is, that's a big deal in grad school because a lot of people you're in classes with are working in hours where you are sleeping my friend. So, like, finding those people that will be your study buddies. A lot of times that's my, my parent friends. So I'm going to ask if they'll be assigned an academic advisor, and how can they get in touch with them and what kind of support can they expect from them through their MS thesis program. That is program specific sorry, go ahead. Oh, I was going to say the same thing on there. Yeah, I think it's progress specific. I don't think the university have like one rule that every advisor has to follow. So I think it'll be also very case by case in this support that you want. So I would definitely have to like, you like different people in the program to see like this type of advice there that they're one thing I am realizing those, just because the one person doesn't get along with one advisor doesn't mean they're not going to get along. And at the same time, if they're consistently someone who's having issue with everyone that that is kind of a red blood, and I did find that that can definitely a smart move to make. I think for the financial health for graduates that were not pasted yet I do know there's some support for message level students. I'm not, I'm not really sure, truly, like, to what extent. I know that at least so for the sociology department we are assigned an advisor when we first get in and you are able to switch that sort of at the end of your first year after if you see like, do you mesh well. Like it's a process it's not just like I want to switch like you have to like fill out a form and go through a process and it's not, and you have to like treat it with kid gloves is not just like it's still like you're still sort of like, I don't want to work with you anymore and like, and that's and that's something that you have to treat with care. It's also people understand because like again you're assigned this advisor you're based off of your research interest in you. This is not somebody you've chosen so it is commonplace to change your advisors. So if you are assigned somebody you can change is what I would say, but if you were assigned I feel like they would have told you by now. So, or at least they should have so if you haven't heard then you probably haven't been assigned. So, is there any other financial help that you guys can suggest towards for graduate students they're not this person's not a PhD yet. Again, like we'll have resource week or resource resource panel during our resource week. And the third week of September where we'll talk more about like financial help specifically for parents and caregivers, if you don't have anything. I can add a couple of things for people to just like think about. One is rackham does have an emergency fund scholarship, which, like it's not specific for parents. And I think you may need to be associated with rackham but I'm not sure.  So that I like I know people that have used that for family situations, you know emergency at home have to fly home and take care of dad, whatever. So that is something that is short term but is available. Also the childcare subsidy. I don't think is limited to PhD students. I'm pretty sure that's open to anyone with childcare needs. And like ask them ask your program managers in your departments because Michigan is flush with cash. They have the money, but you have to like find it. It's there right it's just like knowing who the right person asked is, and what the right questions ask are and we're all in different departments and are all of our people are different. There are also. Oh, I'm so sorry. It's okay. I don't because she's asking the questions in order and I just jumped into respond to one that I saw. I rack them also has some funds to help if you want to travel for conferences. So they have a travel grant with children so there's a travel grant that you can just get any student that helps pay towards conference travel. And there's also parents with children can get this special grant that you can use to cover for extra childcare while you're away. It also can be to bring your child with you. So I actually went to Paris for a conference with my in November and I brought my husband who you know he was on his own time. So we brought him and then my child got to go. She learned what the Eiffel Tower was very quickly, which was cool.  So there are like Jess mentioned there is money. It's just like kind of hidden, but if you know where to look you or just keep digging just keep looking for stuff and you can find additional resources for parents. I do actually want to also answer this question before like the time ends. So there was a question about the leave and reduce hours and complication negotiation. One thing to keep in mind, but I think every department is different. And even though there is a general general policy that the way school management is different as well. And I think there's a multiple levels where you can do the negotiation where one can be like a soft negotiation that you do with your advisor through communication. Some stuff may involve a departmental level so even for me like when I really like to take a medical leave. Actually, my department didn't want me to change the fully. Even from like the ill will but more so they really wanted to make sure because if I'm taking a medical leave that have the health insurance because the caveat is if you're taking a leave, you don't have to make insurance anymore in some cases. So he wanted my our director wanted me to stay in the programs because he for him it was like what like it doesn't make sense that the leave, you're leaving with the via medical issue but then then you'll have insurance to cover that. But I was at a place where I was like I just need to take a leave. So we'll figure out something out. Obviously I was not in my mind. So then what he did is actually he was able to get an emergency from from our department to only cover my insurance to cover my leave but again I think that's not I don't know if it's a common practice I think it was a practice that my director did to go above and beyond to support the students. So I do think unfortunately, even the record has done a lot of stuff shoes, like provide safe not for students, a lot of them is dependent on relationship with the what the directors do the students like the school level do department level I don't know exactly how involved they are, or like whether your advisors in a flat for you or not. And I think this is where I'm like, kind of goes back to, like, you know, obviously you don't, you know, like you're not building relationships just so you can take advantage out of them or get favor of them but I think having a good relationship before and communication with the people around you is really important. And actually like step members, even though they may not have the glorious fancy titles they're the one who knows the most about all the different ways to provide the support and, like, even for me like I had a one time left that broke down and I didn't have money to pay right away and I needed to go for analysis, you know, and then like this one to step member somehow able to find this kind of scholarship and no one really applies for so then my, I can get a new luck for myself like that so I think these are some of the things to keep in mind is that they're the university rule and there's like a soft, cultural norm expectation rule that's set by the advisors and I think part of the being a PhD student is navigating both institutional rules and then this network social support expectations that makes sense. So soon here is answering the question. Can you talk through the experience of taking leaves less reduced hours and any complications or negotiations that you had to do around that. What were your funding situations, how did you maintain health care coverage to follow up with that so the sociology department, I'm not sure if every department has this but they have something called Canto, which is basically like it covers your career and your grad care. But there's no stipend involved so you can sort of stay enrolled and sort of a continual enrollment even though you're sort of like not here, and it allows you to maintain your, your health insurance. And also to highlight some points point like the only reason I found that out was because our administrative staff were looking for ways to keep me here when I was trying to figure out how to be able to stay but not necessarily participate in my academic process at the time and so certainly getting to know your getting to know and love and appreciate your, the staff members in your department. I mean, they're the only reasons you'll get graduated, I promise you like they are there to the support that they provide for the students is I feel like really unmatched. Sam, do you mind if I answer this question about health care costs. So I'll, I'll read it since you just read it figure that's also for the captioning somebody asked, can you talk about health care costs I have coverage through my program. What about a potential child and like honestly Michigan has one of the better health care pro again fought for and one by the union is not a gift from our benevolent overlords okay, but it is one of the best in the country. It might be the best honestly. I have a partner who's the type one diabetic so we have outstanding like huge medical bills every month. My son had stitches when we first moved here like semester one he like hits the bookshelf and goes to the ER. And we've also like I'm from Houston, big city, terrible health insurance programs right. It's, it's really nice. I think we paid like 100 bucks for his ER visit for like the whole thing. And that was it. And I was expecting like 300 and then another bill and then maybe a follow up bill. So, generally speaking like they're also all on my coverage so I'm covered with grad care, my partner. Who's a domestic spouse like we're not married. He's on my plan as and so is my son and I don't pay for them. We pay a little bit for dental, but I am not paying. What is it called when it's not a we pay premiums but we don't think you don't have any premium. It's $0 premium and you can add up to I have both of my, both of my girls and my husband are on my plan as well and we don't pay anything. Obviously, yes, we have co pays like, but all, you know, it's amazing coverage. I had both of my children on this plan and all we paid for where my husband's meals in the hospital. I got my meals covered and he did not. And we ended up just getting Jimmy John's anyways, because you know hospital food so as far as costs so another that was another reason that we decided to have a child or second child here was because we knew that it was completely free to have one and now. And so, yeah, the grad care is probably the best health insurance, any of us will ever have in our entire life, as long as we live in America. Yeah, and I just want to counter also like give a counter example. So I had my son in Houston was fully employed and had health insurance, and we easily paid $15,000 right through pregnancy through labor and delivery and I had a totally uncomplicated pregnancy and delivery. So, yeah, I have only had known just to also big up the insurance that we have I have my partner is also on my insurance and we're not married and I have not lived in Ann Arbor or miss the state of Michigan and since like 2017. And I have insurance fully covered. I can see anybody within like 100 mile radius of like whatever address that I give, which I think is really incredible and so can my partner and anywhere that we go like we'll have insurance covered and that's just incredible. Yeah. Okay, I. We can either do one more question or we can leave with the biggest piece of advice panelists, which would you rather. Let's do one more question. Okay, that's what I thought. Is there something that y'all see in the chat that you really want to speak to the question that just came in about coursework and research. I think is probably what my advice would be related to anyway. So someone asked, have you found a major difference with having children between the coursework and the research phases of your program. I would definitely say for me, having a child right now as a candidate is easier because of flexibility, because the first few years. I have a friend who did have her first child the first year or the second, the early second year, it is feasible, but I did find my coursework you have to be on campus all the time you have to worry about finishing the prelims and things like that where once you kind of, there's a good time like right before you're like defending your perspectives and then you're done with your all the coursework and kind of just pass your thrilling that's like kind of a good time where people let you kind of take some free time to explore really kind of figure what you want to do with dissertation so I definitely see the differences and I think it's definitely case by case but general advice I have received is try to wait until at least you're done with your freedom and your coursework. And then you can have that facility. I echo that I purposely did not want to have a child while I was in med school which is very coursework heavy, and even my first year of grad school I still had some courses but I did get pregnant during my first year of grad school when I had courses so that way. Basically, I did my prelim and then about like five months later is when I had my daughter so.  I had some time to hang out more flexibility to see really where the project was going to and like what was I going to. Was my project going to not work out anyways and I was going to have to take more time or no or you know how did I, I was able to kind of balance that. And then I actually have extended my PhD by one year when I we decided that we want to have a second child. So I was ready to defend and finish up med school at the beginning of this calendar year. And I would have gone back but last summer when we decided that we wanted to have another child we I mean I came to my advisor I wasn't even pregnant and I said you know this is kind of our plan. It's kind of funding that will stay with me so would you be willing to keep me on for another year I kind of gave me some cushion to not have to rush out to finish my dissertation and like defend. I got to wrap up the project really nicely that I probably would have rushed at the end and actually now I kind of have some more time to like finish some other things so I'm extending it by one year and I feel like, in addition to being able to have my second child which is a huge, you know, accomplishment that I wanted. Academically it's actually, I think paying off very well as far as like more papers and things that I needed that I wanted to get out of this phase of my training. And that was all just because I made sure we had honest communication and really supportive mentor, but also if you come in with a kid it's fine. I, so I'm still pre candidacy, and so I'm still in coursework phase. But this summer I haven't taken any courses and I've just been doing research work and it's super chill, which is really nice like the flexibility is amazing. However, I will also say that I also always finish my papers before anyone else, because I didn't wait until midnight that day before it was due, because I knew I wouldn't have time then so like it, like having the kid helped me think about like I had to consciously think about my work life balance and when I was going to plan and what I was going to do. So I, I'm grateful that I came in with him because I might not have taken any breaks, and now I take breaks all the time. Okay, thanks y'all. Thank you so much that is all the time we have for today. I want to thank everyone in the audience for their presence and their participation and I want to thank our panelists for giving both your time and your expertise to us today.


All right, I think we can just get started. So this was a late swap in the program. So if you're looking for a user experience session, this is not that. Those folks couldn't make it today, so this is a totally different topic. We're talking about importing data from one Drupal site to another Drupal site. So typically it's going to be Drupal 5 or Drupal 6, but also Drupal 7 into typically a Drupal 7 site. And then towards the end, we will touch on what the plans might be for importing into Drupal 8. In general, we're talking about the major version upgrade path for Drupal and whether we can use this code instead of the traditional way of upgrading, which is update.php. I guess I should introduce myself, Moshe Weitzman, a longtime Drupal developer, about 10 years now. I'm the director of research and development for Acquia. Before that, I had a small consulting company called Curve, and we focused on data migrations into Drupal. We did lots of huge sites, migrated them onto Drupal. The economist, Martha Stewart, World Economic Forum, examiner.com, and my company was purchased by Acquia a year ago, and we continue to do data migrations at Acquia. So the project that I want to talk about is called Migrate D2D. It is a project up on Drupal.org. It's in Mike Ryan's sandbox. Mike is the maintainer of the Migrate module. This is an extension to Migrate that's specifically focused on migrating from Drupal into Drupal. Why do we go about building this Migrate D2D? When you think about Drupal, the way I think of it, if you're already on Drupal 6 or Drupal 7, there isn't a terribly large motivation to move to the next version of Drupal. You can build almost any website that you can dream of in Drupal 6. You can build it a little easier in Drupal 7, but if it's already built, you might as well stay where you are. However, after a few years, you often get unfriendly with your website. It's grown crafty. It's grown 100 content types, 20 of them you don't need anymore or 80 of them you don't need anymore. It's grown lots of filter formats you don't need. It's basically no longer serving the function that you thought that it would three years ago. That's completely understandable. Happens to all websites. What you really want to do after three years or five years is just build a new website that does what your organization needs it to do. That's when you do a major version upgrade. It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense otherwise, at least for non-trivial sites. You want to build it from scratch, build it just the way you want it and migrate your content into it. That's what Migrate D2D specializes in. We're going to just talk about how this could apply as the official upgrade path for Drupal going forward. Migrate D2D has as source plugins the knowledge of how to dive into Drupal 5, Drupal 6 and Drupal 7 sites and pull data out of them. It understands CCK for Drupal 5 and Drupal 6. It understands field API for Drupal 7, knows how to pull data out, knows how to pull even field configuration out and move that stuff into 7. For fields that are named the same in the Drupal 7 site versus the prior sites, it will do field mappings for you so the system knows how to move from one field to the next field or from the old field to the new field. It understands all of the weird data changes we've made over time between these different versions so the values and comment status, what was unpublished used to mean published and what's published now means unpublished. We fixed some of those things that UpdatePHP also handles for you. We handle them during this migration. A little bit more about Migrate D2D. This is its class hierarchy. The top most level is called a Drupal migration class. That gets extended by the major entities that you want to migrate so it gets extended by Drupal user migration, Drupal node migration and Drupal term migration and files and so forth. Each of those gets extended by version specific classes so Drupal term 7 migration, Drupal term 6 migration. There's the opportunity to handle version specific stuff in the class hierarchy and inherit anything that didn't change from version to version. Let's look at a little bit of code. This is excerpted from the Migrate D2D module and specifically a submodule in there called example D2D. Whenever you use Migrate D2D you create your own module that uses these classes. This thing is called example D2D and in the top line it's implementing hook flush caches which is a Drupal core hook that happens any time the system has a heart attack and you need to flush everything. We set up an array of common arguments. You'll see these happen in a few of these migration registrations. Let's talk about source connection. That's the first element in this array. What we are telling here, so the Migrate D2D module is something that gets installed in the Drupal 7 site, the destination site. What we're saying here is we're telling the Drupal 7 site how to get to the Drupal 5 or Drupal 6 or Drupal 7 site that is the source. Your source database connection is called legacy. Now we expect in your DB URL that you have actually told us where legacy, how to connect to legacy. Obviously for data migrations it's essential to be able to connect to the source data. This is how we describe that. We have to tell Migrate D2D what version of Drupal we're coming from. That's what the source version parameter is right below it. In the next array that we are merging in is just the description of a migration and a machine name for a migration. Here we say we're going to migrate the users from our D6 site to our destination Drupal 7 site and it has the migration name or the machine name of EX user, example user migration. The last line here is calling the register migration method on the migration class. This is a migrate module thing of how you create things called migrations which an example of a migration is take all my users from Drupal 6, move them to Drupal 7. Another migration would be take all my article nodes, move them to Drupal 7. We're registering a new migration here to move users. This is the big service that Migrate D2D is providing is the first parameter here Drupal user 6 migration. That's the class that's in charge of this migration. It's a class that Migrate D2D provided. We didn't have to do any work. We're using it as is and we pass in a couple parameters to register migration. The point is this is all it takes to have a new migration that Migrate module can work with and it will then move all your users from at least the user table part of users from five or six to seven. No custom code. If you guys have used Migrate before, you often have to create classes, a new class for users, a new class for articles and so forth and so on. In this case, we're able to just reuse the user migration and register it dynamically with some parameters and we're done. Similarly, here's how we would register the term migration. We have common arguments again and we merge in a description and a machine name. We just saw that and a couple of additional parameters that are expected by term migrations, namely what's the source vocabulary? That's vocabulary ID number two and the destination vocabulary is called categories in Drupal 7. That's all the information we had to provide to Migrate D2D. We're going to register this migration as an instance of Drupal term 6 migration and we're done after that. Migrate D2D really takes care of a lot of headaches for you. Here's a slightly more complex instance of using Migrate D2D. Again, merging in with the common arguments, a description and a machine name. Here we're migrating in blog notes from our old site to our Drupal 7 site. The source type, and this is a content type, is blog. The destination type has been renamed for whatever reason to custom blog type. Apparently that's something we wanted to do because now we have lots of blog types on our Drupal 7 site. The user migration that this depends on is called EX user. Clearly, if you're doing a migration of nodes, your users who own those nodes have to be in the system already. Migrate module has this notion of ordering your migrations so that users come before content and in general, you can have some control over how your migrations execute or the sort order of the migrations. It's a really good question. The question was, does your destination node type have to exist already or will migrate create it for you? The answer is it has to exist already right now. There may be other tools that will investigate your Drupal 5 site and do the same field API magic so that everything exists on the Drupal 7 site, but Migrate DTD is not yet doing that for you. In a sense, maybe that's helpful because the whole point of doing this was to rethink your content types. There's some value to the automation, but you wouldn't want to fully automate it. Here we do the same sort of thing. We call the register migration method. We pass it the Drupal node 6 migration class and the rest of the arguments and away it goes. It registers this migration with Migrate. We can now run it from the Drush command line or from the GUI. We're quickly developing a migration. We've done users and terms and now we know how to do nodes. We really haven't had to write mappings and other interesting things you have to do with Migrate typically. Your CCK implementation might have used field names that are not used on Drupal 7. You want to change them for whatever reason. Here's an example of letting Migrate know about those changes between your old site and your Drupal 7 site. Once again, where are we here? We have a class called EX article migration that extends Drupal 6 node migration or Drupal node 6 migration.  The little bit of code was called the add field mapping, right in the middle here, add field mapping method, and we're saying that the old thing that was called field publish date is now called field published. Similarly, there's a little mapping here from the old taxonomy system into the term reference field. So, you at times have to write a little bit of code for your different content types if you've done lots of changes, but it's rather straightforward. As is typical with Migrate, you will use a method called prepare row in order to munch the data on its way in. So I gave you two examples here. The field underscore address column in row in the new site is a combination of street and city. Basically that's the Drupal 7 way of doing addresses, let's just assume that. Let's say that in your old site your titles were mixed, some lower case, some upper case, and it was just annoying to fix that on the display layer. You wanted to fix it in the data once and for all. Here we have an example of taking the title field, running the UC first function, which capitalizes the first letter, and now in your Drupal 7 site you always have titles that are capitalized in the first letter. So an easy place to do data cleanup if you desire between if you're going to go through the effort, doing a major version upgrade, let's also kind of clean up your data along the way. There's a question in the back there. It really looks like this. Yeah. So okay, if you are migrating from a multi-language site, it may not be the symbol. Yeah. There's a translation layer that Migrate does to set up the node object so that it has the multiple, multi-value and the language thing in there. Basically you can say that these are French nodes and stuff like that. So Migrate's destination plugins are handling some of that complexity so you don't have to think about it here. One more feature that is in kind of a really early development stage is a GUI for writing this stuff that it will write it for you, essentially, and it will interrogate your old site and ask you, do you want to create this field in the new system, and it basically specs out the migration for you. It might be coming soon. It might be coming never. You know, we'll have to see. It would happen sooner if people got interested in it and helped work on it. Right here. Yeah. Yeah, so they were nodes in Drupal 6, custom entities in 7. It depends on how custom they are in 7. I'm not quite sure. I think it's possible you have to implement your own KLS. I mean, I think for the source side, you can just do it as a node migration. Right? And on the destination side, we may need some custom support in order to save them into your custom entity. There is some integration on the destination side with entity API, which gives a save method for all entities. So maybe it will just work with that destination, but I'm not sure. Okay. Okay. So migrate module, migrate D2D, our intention, Mike and I's intention is to have that ready when Drupal 8 comes out. Okay. So for sites that want to migrate to Drupal 8 right away, we intend to be there for you. There's another goal here, which is that, you know, I've been contributing for a long time and the upgrade path between major versions has become completely unsustainable in my mind. If you look at all the update functions that all the modules carry, they're getting crazier and crazier. And we're making, you know, really difficult rules around you can't use any of Drupal's API within these update functions because we don't know how much of Drupal's available basically when you're updating. You're in this horrid state where your code is all Drupal 8, your data is all Drupal 7 and we're like trying to make it work for you. And we don't have any of Drupal 7's APIs because the code's gone. So it's truly a difficult spot that we put ourselves in with the update.php. So as developers, I get that people might like update.php as users because you press a button and it fixes up your website. But I don't think that developers can actually deliver on that promise for another version of Drupal, even though we might try for 8. I don't think it's a good idea, but at least I'm hoping that for 8 or 9 we give up on that dream and make this the official upgrade path for major versions. Update.php is cool. It can certainly stay for minor version upgrades, the 7.14 to 7.15 and all that kind of stuff. I wouldn't propose to change anything about that. But I think for major versions, the migrate module and migrate D2D approach is solid. You can keep working on your upgrade path, roll forward, roll back, have your Drupal 8 site and your Drupal 6 or 7 site running independently and just move data along every 10 minutes so that people can see what your upcoming website is going to look like with all the latest data and get very comfortable with it before you flip the DNS and really go live on your new site. It's quite a bit different than the other way, which is probably take a database backup, change all the code, run update.php, pray, doesn't work, restore database, fix something, run it, restore database. It's just a terrible cycle. Migrate is specifically designed to make that cycle as painless as possible. There's a question right here. I don't mean to be pessimistic. Back to what you were talking about, your new sites in the freedom, maybe an example, Drupal 5 are using e-commerce and Drupal 6. I decided to switch to e-commerce because I heard all these great things about it. And you go to these major architecture. I'm not sure if migrate by itself is going to handle that. It's still going to need to make this process really about making decisions. And user, site builder, new decisions that I'm not sure I'm fortunate on. Well, it's definitely about decisions. Decisions are made in meeting rooms with people. Like, migrate definitely won't help with that problem. There are definitely organizational challenges around major changes to your website. And it can't handle that. I'm not sure if that's what you're getting at, specifically. Right. Well, one of the great benefits of migrate is that you have the option of switching platforms from commerce to Drupal commerce and Uberkart. If you don't have a good tool for doing data migrations, the people who say, just leave it alone are going to win. Because you don't have a good story for the other side. But with migrate, you have sort of the technical part of that discussion. The data migration part of that discussion is solved. So you now have technical merits and you have to show why Drupal commerce is better than Uberkart and so forth. It's not automatic. It's absolutely not automatic.  Let me go all the way in the back. Yep. Yeah, there's a great module that runs on top of migrate module. It's called commerce migrate that implements that migration. Okay, right here. Yeah, exactly. I mean, we're going to have to think about upgrade for configuration also, because configuration is totally changing in Drupal 8. And for now, we're kind of writing out those files and update functions, I believe. But it's kind of an open question where that ends up. Over here? Yeah, so the question was, what's the state of migrate for Drupal 8? And the state is we have not started working on it. So that's something that I think we'll work on, let's say, when it's like an alpha. When Drupal 8 goes into alpha, I think we'll probably start working on that. Sure. Yes, you could do that. You know, you have different priorities in that use case. You certainly wouldn't want like your node IDs changing, user IDs changing, all of that kind of stuff. And we don't necessarily solve all that for you here. But we solve a lot of things for you there. But I wouldn't really start trying to do what deploy module does here. You'll have to think more with this than you do with deploy, which kind of automatically figures out the dependencies for each of your pushes and so forth. Right here? I think that Drupal 8 is going to have to solve that. So yes, but I don't quite know exactly where that's at. I think we have to talk to the config folks what they're thinking there. Question? Well, this is an alternate way to preserve content across major versions of Drupal. So yeah, we're ripping out one thing and replacing it with another thing. And the, is it squared with the community? Is exactly what core conversations are all about. So, you know, I am trying to get some momentum behind this and get some help and get some, you know, leadership and from people, you know, here. So yeah, we're in the early days of this back here. Yeah, I mean, that's a little bit weird to me too. Basically, you just have to find a point in Drupal when you could register these migrations. And that's as good as any other. You don't want to do it on every page request. So we just do it there. You know, you could do it when you install modules or something like that, but hook flush caches seems to be good enough. People are used to just like CC all flushing caches when things don't work and then they get their new migration. So seems to work out right in the back, son. There are definitely many different ways to do it. The question was, would we want to put migrate module in core? I guess my current thinking is no, we don't put migrate module in core. So most users of this stuff would want to have Drush and migrate module in addition. The migrate D2D stuff could be in core. You know, it's open for discussion as to exactly how much goes in, but I kind of think of the migration tool as being not Drupal. It's a different tool that you use for a little while and you forget about it. I think actually the testing tool should be that also, right? So simple tests should not be in core. It should be a PHP unit thing. So that's how I think of migrate also. Question here. It could be a big deal. The question was about timeline and do we have to get all this done by December? It would be better to get it done before December, I think, because it's arguable whether this is a new feature of Drupal changing how we do major version upgrades. The upgrade path was a major reason why Drupal 7 took 18 months to sort out after feature freeze. So we might find ourselves staring at another year and saying, that's crazy, we need to do this. I mean, I think that could happen, too. It might happen that folks are like, sorry, we can't change how we do upgrades after feature freeze and this is a Drupal 9 thing. So I am a little worried about that from a timing perspective, but it'll happen as soon as enough people want it. There's an issue link down here at the bottom of the slide where this has been proposed and it started to be discussed. So if you have ideas or support, you might want to start talking there. No number 151052692. I should really alias it. Okay, why don't we stop here and we can keep on talking about it over the next few days. Thanks.