Yeah, no, I think we're gonna have to do it tomorrow. We'll do it tomorrow. I gotta go, I gotta go. I'm giving a presentation at DefCon. The cool thing is I'm recording it now and it's gonna be presented 20 years into the future in 2020, isn't that cool? All right, I'll talk to you tomorrow. All right, bye. Yeah, hi everyone. It's good to be here. Coming to you from the past to talk about the 90s and how pen testing really came from the hacker community and just wouldn't really be there if it wasn't for the hacker community. So I have some slides and I'm gonna share my screen here so we can see them. All right, great. I hope everyone can see the slides. So yeah, I'm happy to be here. My name is Chris Weissopel. Some people might know me as Weldpond and I'm gonna talk about how red teaming was born from the hacker community. Some of you may have seen this picture. This is a picture of the group of us from the loft which was a hacker group that I'm part of and we actually got these t-shirts made up to commemorate the event, Feds Love Loft. But we testified at the Senate. It was a little controversial at the time. We were the first hackers to talk about computer security and try to help the US government understand what was going on. I don't know if you can see our placards there in front of us, but they have our hacker names, not our real names, which I thought was pretty interesting. They let us testify with our hacker names because of course, back in the 90s, it was kind of risky to be called out as a hacker with a hacker handle and posting about vulnerabilities and things like that. So we didn't wanna risk our day jobs. We were all, a lot of us were in IT and if you said bad things about a big vendor, it might be bad for you and your job. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I'm not sure what, but our pictures were posted with our, it was posted in the newspapers the next day and people at work kind of knew what we looked like. So the jig was kind of up that we did this, but that's me there. And here's a little different. I've made it a little bit shorter, but a lot of people say, how did this happen? How did you get there? And it really was doing things the hacker way, reverse engineering, exploring, looking at hosts and networks, but we did it on our own machines and we did it in order to publicize the insecurity in software and hardware and took on a really kind of a consumer advocacy approach. And I think while making trouble for vendors, a lot of other people saw the benefit of what we were doing and that's how we got invited to go speak at the Senate and famously, Mudge, who's there next to me said we can take down the internet in 30 minutes and we were talking about BGP vulnerabilities which are still a problem. BGP hijacking is still definitely an issue a few years later, but I wanna go back to sort of the beginning of sort of computer security. And when I go back to the beginning of computer security, I think of the orange book. This was a book that talked about design and security features, authentication, authorization, encryption, auditing. It really talked about security features and the book was kind of made famous in the hacker community because it made an appearance in the movie Hackers, but it really was the way that people thought about computer security in the early and even in the mid 90s. It was all about security features. There's nothing in here about bugs and code, right? And we all know that that blows a hole right through any security feature. So there was a huge part of building secure systems that was completely missing until hackers started exploring and probing things. The other big way people thought about computer security was cert, which was formed after the Morris worm. And in the early 90s, cert said, we'll start taking a look at these vulnerabilities. If someone finds a vulnerability, send it to cert. We'll understand it, we'll look at it, we'll talk to the vendors and we'll try to get them to fix it. But one of the things we found at the loft is when we first started dealing with cert, if we found vulnerabilities that we would send it to cert and it would just become a black hole. We didn't know if the vendor fixed it, if they fixed it in a silent fix, the general public didn't know about it. So there was no way for them to know that they should be patching. And there was sort of no consequences for vendors who wrote buggy, insecure code because the general public didn't know about it. It was just something between cert and the vendor. And I think that was pretty broken until hackers basically didn't end run around that whole model. In the early days, there were some hackers that tried to start companies. The earliest company that I know of and is a company called Comsec Data Security. And here's actually the press release from 1991. So the contacts here are Scott Chason and Chris Goggins, two of the founders of Comsec. And they're quite proud to say that they're comprised mainly of the now defunct computer group, the Legion of Doom and they plan to offer full scale security package to private and industry. I don't know if people remember Legion of Doom, but several members actually went to jail for CFA violations. So maybe not the best group to be saying, this is the basis of our company. But what they were saying also is they were bringing a fresh approach to the security consulting and the corporate marketplace that they know how systems are compromised and what actions need to be taken to secure them. So this was actually a totally new thing. They were really kind of pioneering here saying that they know how systems are compromised. And so that's the fresh approach. Isn't that amazing in 1991 that that was brand new and I have to applaud them for pioneering in the industry here. But in the press release, I thought this part was actually pretty interesting. They said that they were aware of the possible shockwave among the hacking underground over this venture. The firm maintains that they are security consultants and not informants or hacker trackers. We're not gonna go after people. We are gonna ensure that no one hacker or corporate spy can compromise the security of our clients' computers. So there was this idea that like if a hacker worked for a corporation, it was sort of narking, right? The only reason you're there is to tell them about the other hackers that were out there that you knew about from underground bulletin boards and mailing lists and bridges and things like that. And they were claiming that's not what they're doing. That's not what they're doing. But that was definitely a concern back then, this whole can the hacker community trust someone who goes into corporate world? So it really kind of went both ways. There was an interview afterwards or by ISP News. And I thought this was actually kind of interesting. ISP News was saying, given where you're coming from, why should a potential client trust you? And the CG here is Chris Goggins, one of the founders. He says, I know it's a natural question, just the very nature of creating a company should project an image that we are trying to come out of the shadows, out of the underground. We're saying, look everybody, you've been doing this for a long time. Now we want to help. And ISP News says, I'm sure you understand the natural suspicion that people have. And Goggins says, no, that's what I don't understand. If we had Comsec, we're out to compromise information from an existing company's computer network, we wouldn't have incorporated. We could have done that and someone else could have already done so. Then the information would be available from one hacker to another. So he's really trying to say, hey, we understand that people are gonna be skeptical. But you can trust us. Unfortunately, Comsec didn't go very far. It was just too early. They couldn't get any customers. And some things had to happen between 91 and the late 90s before people could start to trust hackers and hacker techniques. To secure their systems. One of the big seminal papers and something that was very seminal for me when I was starting out doing computer security was this paper by Dan Farmer and Witte Venema in 93. So just a couple of years after Comsec and they wrote this paper improving the security of your site by breaking into it. And they published this as a paper I'm not sure if it was published in USENIX security but it was an academic paper that was in the form of something that a government security person or a corporate security person could kind of understand. It wasn't all shady like Frack Magazine, et cetera. And basically it just talked about, look at the way that attackers are breaking into it. Look at the way that attackers are breaking into networks. Collect all of those things together and try them on your own network. Weak passwords, probing open ports, try exploiting trust, exploit known bugs. Imagine that exploiting known vulnerabilities to see if you have them. This was a new concept in 93. And then they talked about locking down networks based on understanding how hackers were and attackers were going after networks. And then a little bit later, well, not the first one with Crack, but a little later these hacker tools started to show up. Really the first hacker tool that was sort of well known and well available was Crack by Alec Muffet. Came out in 1991. And his whole idea was do a dictionary attack or a brute force attack on Unix passwords. Seemed like a reasonable thing to do if attackers were guessing passwords. Why not guess them first and just do it right on the password file, the encrypted passwords. Seems to make complete sense now. But back then this was considered only an attack tool. Why would a legitimate person use this kind of tool? Randall Schwartz was an admin at Intel that was actually fired and was charged with a felony for using Crack on the systems that he administered purely to tell the users of his system that they should pick a stronger password. Thankfully later the felony was charges were reversed after a few years, but not so good for Randall Schwartz's career in the beginning. And of course we know now with Have I Been Pwned and lots of different things. You know, figuring out if people are reusing passwords or weak passwords is critical. Satan was a tool created by Dan Farmer and Weetsy Venema a few years after they wrote their paper basically automating those techniques that they said. So let's try all those vulnerabilities. Let's target all those misconfigurations. Let's automate the process of finding these problems on your network. Guess what? Dan Farmer got fired from his job at SGI for releasing this tool. He actually got fired for writing a tool which is now a multi-billion-dollar industry from the likes of, you know, Rapid Seven and Qualis and Tenable. Dan got fired for pioneering the idea of network scanning for vulnerabilities. Little bit of trivia there. That logo on the right is the logo of Satan and it was actually sketched by Neil Gaiman, the author of Sandman. So Dan was friends with him. And then just the final tool I wanted to mention was Netcat by Hobbit came out in 96 really as this network Swiss Army knife. I'm sure everyone has used Netcat. Didn't do anything except set up connections and send data to those connections. I ported it to Windows and it actually turned out that started getting flagged as something that was malicious code. By antivirus. So if you actually wanted to use that to scan systems and test systems, you had to make sure that you didn't run a file of antivirus. So there's a lot of misunderstandings in the early days. And hackers created the first real true information sources about bugs in software, vulnerabilities, bug track with its full disclosure policy, famously went around what CERT was trying to do. It was a place where people could publish information of vendors weren't listening to you. You could just publish it publicly. And it was a place where like-minded security people could find that really radical in the beginning years. It was actually created in 1993 by Scott Chasen, someone who one of the founders of Comsec. So I think we have a lot to thank Scott Chasen for, for pioneering and pushing the limits. He was also one of the early editors of Frack, along with Chris Goggins, was one of the early editors of Frack, which started in the late 80s and still goes today, very popular in the mid-90s, issues coming out on a monthly basis, all kinds of exploits and tools. And of course we all know about DEFCON as a place where people can gather and give presentations and that's where we are here today. The first computer security presentations about sort of real security were created by hackers. And the other big change I think we saw with hackers entering the realm here of computer security was they made computer security a participatory sport. Capture the flags became a way to learn, learn by doing, learn by training with your adversaries, learn from your adversaries and make it fun, right? Up until then security was sort of set it and forget it.  It was very set it and forget it and wait for the attackers to come where the hacking community really birthed this notion of the pen test and the red teaming and adversarial, the, bringing in the adversarial nature for, for securing systems. And we know that that's made a huge, huge difference. So I was a member of the law starting in 93 and, you know, four or five years later we said, hey, you know, this is all fun. We're releasing things and that, but, you know, maybe this could be a business. Maybe we could actually do consulting. Maybe we could sell software and actually in 97 we started selling loft crack and we thought about, you know, maybe this could be a full-time gig. So let's try, let's try consulting. And we knew about Comsec back in 91 and they, we knew that, you know, the loft was a known hacker group and we used our hacker names but, you know, maybe times have changed. Maybe we could have a go at this. And so we tried our hands at consulting and one of the ways we did this was we found a local consulting company in the Boston area and we talked to them and we said, you know, maybe you should start a consulting business and the loft could, you know, be your security consulting business unit. And so we started talking to them about coming on as employees. And we said, there's no better way for us to demonstrate what our capabilities are than to try to hack, try to hack your company, right? Let's do a full-on penetration test of your company. So we talked them into letting us do this. We did it pro bono, you know, because we were trying to explain to them the value we had. So we did that and we were actually negotiating with them at the time, right? We were negotiating with them saying, you know, what would our salaries be? What would the business look like? You know, what would be the parameters around us coming to work at your company?  It was on the list. It was in scope. We actually didn't do any email social engineering or voicemail social engineering, but we did do things like physically penetrate in order to do things like, you know, see what was in the trash and things like that. So here's the cover page of our security audit. We went, we didn't go by the law. We went by LHI technologies. We took the loft heavy industries and made it LHI technologies. And because we were doing some consulting, selling some software at the time, and that was a part of the loft history where we were actually sort of becoming a company. And we did this between August 20th and September 8th, 1997. It was a completely black box test. And, you know, we use a combination of tools and network probing. I've blanked out the name of the company. It's been a few years, but just, you know, make sense to keep them confidential. Security in 1997 was a lot different than it is now. So just, if we look at the executive summary here, you can see that from the internet, we were pretty much able to totally own everything. All these critical corporate systems, Oracle databases, got corporate credit cards, voicemail, the network routers, the dial-up systems, personal email, their intranet site. So basically total-ownage.  So, you know, I could do a whole presentation on the gory details of this, but I just wanted to highlight a couple things which I thought were interesting, things you don't always see in a pen test. So one is, you know, one of the first ways we got in was through the web server. And if anyone had been doing hacking in 1996, you probably heard of the PHF vulnerability. It was a CGI bin that came pre-installed with Apache. And it had command injection, right? So you could just put a delirator character in there and put your command. But of course, Apache should be running as its own user, right? It should be running as HTTPD, shouldn't allow you to compromise the system through this vulnerability, right? Maybe it's basically an information leakage if permissions are set correctly. But we were poking around and we actually saw that someone didn't set the permissions on HTTPD.conf file correctly. So the configuration file shouldn't be owned by the HTTPD process because, you know, then any code that executes from the web server could change the configuration. And guess what part of the configuration of the server is? It's what user the server should run as. So we use this command injection to edit that file and change it so that the next time the server came up, the web server came up, it would be running as root. Nice little technique there. But then we did uptime on the system and we saw that the system had been running for over 100 days. And, you know, we tried DDoSing it. But, you know, we basically had to wait for someone to reboot the server. And so we didn't think we were going to go, we weren't going to get in this way. We started probing some other systems and actually found some other vulnerabilities and were able to get in. But a few days later, I was listening to the news and I actually saw that there was a manhole explosion in Cambridge where this company was located. And unfortunately, an employee of the power company actually died in the manhole explosion. But it downed power in Cambridge for five hours. And after this happened, I started probing, you know, the system and started looking at their web server. And it was up after an hour. It was up after a couple hours. So they obviously had backup. But after about three hours, the system went down and they didn't have enough backup for this five-hour power outage. And when the power came back up, it rebooted and we were now doing command execution as root. So I just thought that was a little bit. I had never come into a situation like that before in a pen test, but you just never know how things are going to go and what's going to go your way. The other thing I thought was pretty interesting was we, you know, looked at the voicemail, the voicemail systems. And you can see there on the left, the extension, we have the username in the middle. I've grayed out some of them. And then the password on the right, and you can see the new employee voicemail box gets a one, two, three, four password. And you can see that some people never changed it, like IT and facility service line was one, two, three, four. The travel line was one, two, three, four. Directions was one, two, three, four. But there's some other accounts on there where the extension and the password are the same, that 4069. And if you look down, there's 18629 where the extension was the same as the password. That actually happened to be the vice president that was negotiating with us at the time about joining the company. And we sort of listed out what we were expecting for salaries, benefits, you know, how we wanted the jobs to work. And one of the things we really wanted was we wanted that step van, or I don't know if it was a bread truck or whatever, that was in sneakers. We wanted a sneakers van so that we could outfit it with electronic equipment to do wireless and surveillance and have a mobile, you know, the mobile hacking unit. It looked totally awesome, right? I think everyone who watched sneakers loved that. We put in that, we wanted that. And we heard on this voicemail, so we captured a couple of voicemails as evidence that we were able to get in the account.  They thought we were asking for the world. Sort of just didn't understand what we were going for. So you don't always have a situation where you're negotiating with your potential future employer while you're doing a no holds barred pen test with your get out of jail free card, right? So again, another bit of an interesting situation. But, you know, we didn't end up joining there. And a couple years later, the loft ended up joining a startup company called Atstake, which just did information security consulting. And I'm sure you've, some of you have heard of Atstake. This was an article from January 2000, where, you know, the way the news looked at it was using good hackers to battle bad hackers. If you have a murky past and doubt you could become a dot com millionaire, I think again. And I thought, you know, what a change from the 1991 with Comsec really not being thought of as credible. So a lot of things had to happen over the 90s for really us to join Atstake and be perceived as a legitimate company. And so that's my story. That's my story from 2000. I hope that you enjoy this in 2020. And here's my contact information. There's this thing called Twitter is going to get invented, I think, and I'm going to found this company called Veracode in 2006, just some of my future plans. So hope you enjoyed it. I'm going to join on the Discord, which is another technology is just going to be invented and hopefully we can chat. So bye bye everyone.


from Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering VeeamON 2019, brought to you by Veeam. We're back, this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We're here in Miami, this is a wrap of VeeamON 2019. Two days of coverage. I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host, Peter Burris. This is our third year covering VeeamON. We started in New Orleans. We've seen Veeam go from what they called, at this show, Act One to Act Two. And we talked two years ago about our first VeeamON, about the ascendancy of Veeam being so tightly tied to the rise of virtualization. And now we heard this year Act Two being cloud, multi-cloud. And we heard a number of announcements that are in support of that. We're going to talk about that. But Peter, there were three key announcements this week. One was the billion dollar milestone. They actually, it finally hit a billion dollars. They've been talking about it for a while. It's now official. Billion dollars on a trailing 12 month basis. They're a profitable company Veeam. And a focused billion dollars. I think that's really important. They're very focused. I mean, they do some M&A, but not a lot of M&A. And that's because of NIH. I mean, these guys, they trust themselves to write code. It's also sustained that simple value proposition. Right, and that's a fundamental dogma, I think. I think it's fair to say. We heard the announcement of the with Veeam API infrastructure, which is key. We're going to talk about that. I think there were two companies they announced partnerships with Nutanix, with Mine, and Exigrid, both taking advantage of that. There will be others. Ken Ringdahl just told us, you know, maybe 10 to 12. It's not going to be an enormous number. At least for secondary storage.  And then the Veeam availability orchestrator, version two, which allows you to do fast backups, recover from backups without having to go to a replicated offsite. And some other capabilities they call the dynamic documentation and automating testing and some DevOps capabilities. So, you know, the people seem pretty excited about that. It wasn't a sea of announcements, like you see at some of these things, which I think Peter talks to the degree of focus that you were just mentioning. You know, they're not about bragging rights on the number of announcements that they can make. You know, it's really all about extending that platform. Lot of incremental announcements. Ratmir told us not a big roadmap company, even though he did show a roadmap today, but the roadmap he showed was a lot of near term functional improvements. So very function rich, you know, the tagline of it just works. But let's see, I think this is the first time you and I have done Veeam on together. First time I've been here. Your impressions? Look, I love wandering the halls and talking to the actual attendees and seeing what they have to say. So I spent about an hour, hour and a half just doing some work in one of the hallways here. And one of the reasons I do that is because it's an opportunity here with the attendees and the customers are talking about and what's important to them. You go to a lot of these shows and everybody's buzzing about one or another product announcement. You go here and everybody's talking about the problems that they're solving. And I think that one of the reasons why we didn't have this frenzy of product announcements like we have in so many other places because a lot of companies want the focus to be on them. I think what we heard here, or what I heard here was somewhat different was, again, customers trying to solve the problems and Veeam creating an opportunity for them to talk in terms of some of the new directions and some of the new products are being introduced. But the focus stayed on the customer and the problems that they're trying to solve. And that's what, to my mind, that's what successful companies focus on. Yeah, and I come back to this notion of the with Veeam, the whole API integration, cloud, hybrid cloud, the edge. Veeam wants to be, and they've laid this vision out, certainly last year and even started the year before, of essentially being that backup capability, data protection capability across wherever your data lives, on-prem, in the cloud. Now, they really are focused on backup and data protection. They even say backup is where it starts. A lot of other companies don't even use the term backup. No, it's not about backup, it's about data management and data protection. So it's interesting that Veeam is really focused on backup and when you do what you did and talk to the customers, what do you use the Veeam for? Backup, backup, backup, backup. And so they're not over-rotating to that vision. Now, many of their competitors are going hard after that and doing some great marketing. So the competitive dynamics are very interesting now. You've got Cohesity, you've got Rubrik, doing really well with positioning as a modern architecture and Veeam, definitely not a legacy company, their business is growing. You've got Commvault, you've got Dell EMC, Veritas, IBM, you know, trying to hit single-digit growth, trying not to decline. I mean, IBM in particular declined and then really had to do a deal with CataLogic to stop Veeam from eating its market share. That's really what that deal was all about. You saw Dell EMC kind of take its eye off the ball when it merged with Dell EMC. You know, it was the leader and purpose-built backup appliances. It's made some announcements recently to try to get back in the game, right? So, you know, you don't ever count those guys out. Commvault's approached it differently. They've got a large install base. You know, Veritas went through private equity and so they had some other challenges. But again, they're investing. And so, it's a big market. You know, people are going to go fight hard for it and then with the outside funding that's come in, it's really up the game. Now, a lot of that funding is going to go to promotion, which again, comes back to your point about focused R&D. Really, really important to focus R&D on things that customers want that you're going to solve a business problem. So, if you go back, and just to take your segmentation and we can kind of look at it in a couple of perhaps simple ways. You've got Veeam and companies like Veeam who saw the whole virtualization and the need to do a better job of supporting and protecting and replicating and backing up virtualized resources. All hitting the market pretty hard. And then you had the Dell EMCs and a lot of the other companies that you mentioned. Trying to sustain or keep pace with those guys. And then you have the new guys, the drovers and whatnot. We're talking about just cross-cloud, multi-cloud backup. On top of that, you have, and something we talked about with a couple of guests, the security guys are looking at this and saying, wait a minute, you know, data is data and protection and security are going to be increasingly difficult to separate because data is going to move and I have to be able to move security with the data. It's going to be an inevitability. We're talking about a cloud that allows us to do more distribution of data because we're going to do more distribution of work and the security is going to have to move from the data. So the security guys are going to get in this. The networking guys are going to be asking questions about the opportunity. You got the old guard who is more focused on devices and managing and backing up the devices, trying to get back in. You got the new guys who are saying, let's lead the Act 2 before the Veeam's get there. It's going to be an extremely complex market, but all of it's going to boil down to this simple fact. I'm going to distribute data in response to the work that needs to be performed and how am I going to manage the digital assets that I have to make that easy so that it doesn't explode. And all of these companies at some point, kind of the next phase of this is going to be I'm protecting data, but can I turn it into a digital asset? So here's what I saw. I saw Veeam talking about the idea of, you know what, we're going to protect locally. I'll suggest it over the course of the next couple of years. It's going to be we're going to do data asset management with protection where the actual act of protecting it is similar to the act of defining it as an asset. So being able to use a snapshot for a lot of different uses already happening now, but adding services, consistent set of services on top of that through with Veeam and other resources that allow them to do that. And then move more of that, what's today regarded as replication function into that protection side of things. A lot more support for locally because that's where the services are going to become. Having the services or not having the services is really going to be an essential question because we're going to move more of this data out to where the work's going to be performed. We often talk about customers having to place bets, but the vendors are having to place bets as well. They're obviously betting on multi-cloud, but juxtapose for example, what Veeam's doing, and it was interesting to hear Ken Ringdahl, he answered your question about whether it was through M&A, and he answered it in an M&A context, but or maybe organic development around more security functions. And he kind of said, I'll never say never, but really focused, the team, the engineering team is really focused on backup and data protection and what they call data management. Juxtapose that now, would they say for instance, what are Daytreams doing? X-Data Domain guys built their own file system trying to bring both primary and secondary stores together. Yeah, and which I like, and I think it's really powerful, Veeam's taking a different approach. They're saying with Veeam APIs, we're going to partner with Pure, we're going to partner with Cisco, we're going to partner with Nutanix. So, different approach, and they're going to obviously claim the same capability. Hey, we can do that too. Daytreams saying, well, we can do that too with just one mouse trap, the integration points, et cetera. So it's going to really be interesting to see how that all shakes out, that word seamless. Like I said, it sometimes triggers me. If it really is seamless, Veeam has a go to market advantage relative to the Swiss Army knife approach. If it's not seamless, then a daytream approach will have an advantage. It's from a product standpoint. You and I both know there's so much more to success than just having a great product. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You can write in there and know the best of it. And mentioned it. But here's, it's interesting. When we talked about what will the road map, the practical road map, because Veeam has altered its road map in response to Custer of Demand. Quite frankly, very successfully, and you've got to applaud them for doing so. But one of the things we heard was that, look, we don't want to over promise on the engineering front, because you've got a certain number of engineers in a certain engineering capacity, focus them on things that are creating value to the problems you're trying to solve. The same thing's true within a lot of user shops. You don't want to throw a whole bunch of new function and new requirements at a bunch of guys who are still themselves trying to evolve from backing up devices to now actually protecting data. And so there's a natural evolution that's going to take place. And I think Veeam has done a pretty good job of keeping their finger on what that pulse is. It's what can be invented, but also what can be innovated if we think of innovation as the customer adopting and applying it and embedding it and changing their activities around it. And I think Veeam's done a pretty good job of navigating that what can customers really do right now not getting too far ahead. So a lot of these guys, the natural tendency that you come from a product perspective and you say put more into the product and get the better check marks and have the better statue, the better fact sheet. And I think Veeam is taking a simpler approach, almost an Apple-like approach in an enterprise sense and saying, look, give them what they can handle, give them what they can use, give them what's going to generate value, and as they master that, give them a little bit more. You know what it reminds me of is you said Apple, it reminds me of early EMC days.  It had all the optionality, all the connectivity, and that's kind of what Veeam is doing. And then the features that are announced were really practical, they clearly solved the problem now. Since then, you know, EMC's evolved into the checkbox, right? We have more features than anybody. That's what happens when you have a user-solve base. But they have the customer base that everybody wants, right? You have the customer base that everybody wants and they say, check, we have that thin provisioning, we have that too, and you know, we're going to freeze the market. That's, you know, much more mature company. But in their defense, it's also in response to an increasingly specialized and complex customer base, they're trying to cover all the bases.  Absolutely, absolutely. And the sales guys saying, hey, we need something to stop this. Absolutely, absolutely. And they've done a great job of doing that. But Veeam is very, very focused on the optionality, and for years, they wouldn't talk about bare metal. A couple of years ago at Veeam on, the big thing was, hey, we said for years, we're only virtualization, well, guess what? Now we do bare metal. That was sort of the big announcement one year. So they're very judicious about how they allocate their R&D, you know, capital. And you're seeing that, you know, translate into function that actually gets used. Actually, yeah, I think that's a key point. I think your analogy with EMC is actually really good, Dave, because if you go back 30 years when EMC first started getting going, what was the problem? Controllers on mainframes and mini computers were getting incredibly complex. It's, you know, dusty controllers. And the amount of processing that was being put into that and the microcode was just overwhelming most people's ability to deal with it. And so EMC came along and said, well, if that's the problem, can we fix it? Can we put cash in? That'll just make this whole system simpler. And then they stay true to that for a number of years and they turn into a BMOV. And it's interesting, I think it is a good analogy, because what is the problem? The problem is, data is going to be more distributed. It's going to be more central to a company's mission. It's going to be used by more functions and repurposed into more applications that have a greater diversity of RTO and RPO. And as a consequence, they seem to be saying, we're going to do our best to pull as much function to that protect side of things, local, as we possibly can, so that people who aren't PhDs in computer science can perform a real business service by making all that stuff work. And then at the same time, work very closely with third parties who can bring specialization of that secondary storage to bear as the specialization increases, because it's going to increase. And the other MBA case study example that I would point to is the early days of Veritas. When Jeremy Burton was running Merrick Marketing at Veritas, he coined the, I think it was Jeremy, coined the no hardware agenda, pure software, a lot of function, and they rose to a couple of billion dollars in revenue, very, very successful. Now has the big install base that everybody wants to eat. It's just, again, reminiscent, being pure software company, they're not shipping boxes, they're not shipping appliances, they're not selling direct, they're pure channel play. There's a big tam to just continue to do virtualization. I like the big question is, are they going to, will their focus on what they're currently doing translate into focus on multi-cloud? Here at this conference, they're claiming, yes, we've heard nothing that suggests that they won't be able to, but there's a lot of new players out there who are looking at that space and saying, you know what, I can do that too, and there's going to be a lot of invention, a lot of investment, and there's good reasons to suspect that Veeam's going to be able to evolve successfully, but there are few areas where I think they're going to have to focus more time. Yeah, a big part of a CEO's job is TAM expansion, and right now they're a billion out of 15, let's call it, so there's a long way to go, but as you point out, that multi-cloud appears like it's going to be lucrative, and there's a lot of different companies coming at it from different angles. You got it. And today we look at it as this big blob. Yeah. And the reality is it's going to be incredibly specialized. Very fragmented.   Absolutely. And Microsoft has to be in it because of the huge estate of on-prem software. And there's a dozen security guys are going to be looking at this and saying, oh, look, date and motion. That's us. My service now is going to get its piece of it. So very interesting how that's all going to shake out. It's okay. So wrap it up, Peter. You know, kind of summarize your thoughts on the space, Veeamon. So first Veeamon for me, a lot of customers that we're talking about solving complex problems during their digital business transformation, that's always good to hear. Got to a billion dollars. That's a great milestone for any software company. Good reasons to suspect that Veeam is going to evolve into a company like Veritas, like one of the big guys. This is a company that's got legs. And I think that the final one that I'd say not got legs, but they've got what it takes to be able to affect this transition. They probably got the execution chops.  Basically he said that. That's not a bad testimony when you come down to it. Yeah, and then the one thing that we have not talked about which is it shines through is culture. This company has a culture that is a winning culture. It's a fun culture. There's an accountability associated with it. And very customer oriented. Absolutely, yep. So that's winning formulas. It's been fun sort of watching these guys grow and interacting with a number of their customers. And you saw a couple of years ago Veeam saying, okay, we're going enterprise. Well, ain't so easy to just say we're going enterprise. But interestingly, even though they've somewhat retrenched from that messaging, they're having success in the enterprise. Clearly with their partnerships with guys like HPE, and Cisco, and NetApp, and others. And so they're just going to let it bake a little bit and go from their position of strength, which is that kind of S and MB. Do more simply with your protection environment is not a bad story for a company of any size. Right, right. Okay, Peter, hey, it's been great working with you. Thank you. And thank you for watching. Guys, great job. Awesome. Go to siliconangle.com, you'll see all the news. Thecube.net is where we host all these videos and you'll see wikibon.com has all the research. Peter recently wrote a great piece on data protection and how that market's involving. Check out our Twitter at theCUBE and at theCUBE 365 Twitter handles. You'll see all kinds of clips coming out of this show and other shows. Let's see, we got a lot coming up. Last word for you, what'd you think? So, I think you're seeing, as I said before, a very practical approach to gaining foothold and maintaining and growing in a market. I like the business model. This company has been somewhat opaque. European-based, you know, Russian founders. But, and most of this business is outside of the US and I think they're really coming into the mainstream now. And theCUBE helps make it more transparent. Yeah, absolutely. And right, because you can ask the questions of people and you know, you get all kinds of different answers.  So, so it's been great. Thank you for watching theCUBE.  Huge, huge season. May and June are our busiest months. Take a slight break in July, although, you know, we'll be cranking this summer as well. So thank you for watching everybody. We're out, Dave Vellante for Peter Burris. We'll see you next time.


Welcome to CES, and this is yet another cool demo of the VL53 series of time-of-flight sensors. This one is the L8 Ultra, VL53 L8 Ultra. People were impressed with our 8x8, you're going to be more impressed with our 16x16 zones. It is the coolest thing ever. It is exactly the same size as the VL53 L8 that you already know and love, and you can swap it out with just a matter of changing some software. It is awesome. To really show this off, let me show you our ski demo. And let me introduce you to Lauren, our number one champion skier. Actually, she's not, but it's pretty fun. Wonderful, keep going. And that is a demo of the VL53 L8 Ultra. And remember, our technology starts with you.


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Yeah, we're at the track covering the sport of Kings coming up this week Clearly one of the best horses in Jamaica the US bread five-year-old mere desert of Malibu rallies from a dreadful start to win the St. Catherine cup with authority a flashback to the latest Barbados meet We're last year's beaten Guinness favorite indelible snaps an eight month winless run in the mom's pride trophy Gate to wire two stores as well from the USA a Tampa Bay downstakes win for Florida's number one trainer sappet Joseph junior Barbados and a stylish win for Jamaican jockey Anthony Thomas over two of the continent's top Jock is at Gulfstream Park Plus the usual weekly stats on Caribbean success on the North American continent or opening store from Jamaica Saturday's main event at Caymanus Park This and Catherine cup six furlong sprint with seven starters all eyes on the impressive six horse Desert of Malibu who had passed the winning post in front in all five of her previous starts since arriving from Florida The betting suggesting a two-horse race here desert of Malibu a heavy one-to-nine favorite and number four Emperor of the cats undefeated in his last three starts the second favorite at five to two next best supported number seven freedom Street at 13 to one here's Brown Rickman's race call There are for the St. Catherine cup desert of Malibu has an awful beginning and has catching up to do as Madeline sunshine and Emperor of the cats go for it up front Press conference is three lengths back and racing in third freedom Street races back in fourth as they go flashing past the five Luxor on the outside of sister in treasure and desert of Malibu playing catch up at the back as the field arrived at the Half-mile and run into that home turn Madeline sunshine shining brightly at the moment leads up by some two lengths Emperor of the cats in hot pursuit press conference needs to find six to get to them freedom Street races next as they slip Past the three Luxor shaken up now bubbling to the boil sister in treasure is next and desert of Malibu with a mountain to climb from There as the field come thundering into the top of the lane It's Madeline sunshine out in front Emperor of the cats in the red cap now throwing down the challenge But Madeline sunshine is fighting to hold the lead on the ride out now doing everything to keep Madeline sunshine Going there right at the furlong pole here is a desert of a Malibu coming from nowhere and flashing over the outside They inside the final 16th and desert of Malibu now grabs a hold of Madeline sunshine Madeline sunshine under a cloud desert of Malibu beats Madeline sunshine then Emperor of the cats What a run by desert of Malibu very tardy out of the starting gates and was still last coming off the final bend But ex-champion jockey Dane Dawkins and the light blue silts Rallys the five-year-old Mirator win with authority comfort even in the end reeling in the front running Madeline sunshine near the finish Desert of Malibu for owner Houston stables and trainer Garry Sabrati shipped from Florida after one race at Tampa Bay Downs Would have been 6-0 now if not for her disqualification from first place in last month's Bruce on the loose sprint trophy on Mute mile day Desert of Malibu as a one-to-nine favorite wins the St. Catherine cup by a length over Madeline sunshine The five-to-two second favorite Emperor of the cats is third having his three-race winning streak snapped The clock stopped at one minute twelve and three-fifths only twenty twenty one winner father Patrick's time of one twelve flat Has been faster since the event was switched from five and a half furlongs to six furlongs Let's flashback to the last Barbados race meet to the season opening BTC board of directors seven race card And the second or feature mom's pride trophy a competitive six-horse field for the 7.8 furlong trip on the garrison Savannah turf the two horse mirror in the sky the favorite as the mayor was a seven-time winner in 2023 but check out the Philly indelibles front-running show under Ray Williams watched in the come box by Dean Springer quarter was twenty five and three and They're journey down the box stretch and indelible can turn along in front. That's your leader from Mikal on the outside Supermodel down the inside is to the rose mirror the sky improves and lovely is your trailer as they're on the far turn the half Completed in 51 and 2 they get to the top of the hill and begin their run downhill towards the drill hole And it's indelible being pressed now on the outside by Mikal Supermodel runs into the race and third mirror This guy has found her best race and right and she's coming calling on the inside to the rose falls away and lovely Continues to troll inside the quarter pool they come and indelible on the inside is hanging tough on the outside of her Is Mikal and there are no more turns and indelible is in command She finds another gear and starts to dash on on the inside to the rose looking for way through It's indelible to the rose Mikal to the rose tightened up and not going to get there Mikal with one loss There's not going to get there either a brilliant gate to our win by indelible perfectly rated by the 25-year-old Dabu winning Jockey Ray Williams Indelible raced unbeaten in four starts last year as a three-year-old until her defeat as favorite in June's Barbados Guinness One by let it be me the Philly was second in the midsummer didn't race in the Dabi and now snaps a three-year-ace Winless run for trainer Richard Dean who landed both feature races on the day also scoring of course with sir Jimmy in the president's trophy Sir David seals indelible by three quarters of a length lands the mums pride trophy at three to one odds ahead of Supermodel and lovely 1 39 20 the winning time for 7.8 furlongs Now to Florida where the Gulf Stream Park champion trainer Safi Joseph junior shifted his success across the Tampa Bay Downs on Saturday The Barbadian with a top entry in the Gasparilla stakes his four-year-old Philly Mystic Lake coming off a third-place finish in the Mazurine stakes at Canada's Woodbine in early November was the favorite and took control early in the 7th furlong run Here's Gulf Stream Park champion Jockey Edgar Zias setting the pace with her Just over a half mile left to go 22 and 4 for that opening quarter-mile Mystic Lake and at guard Zias Take him past the half mile pole a length and a half in front of a lineup of three Corinth down toward the inside delightful summer Runaway diva between horses now Gervins princess starts to lift has gone by gorgeous girl who's dropped back a couple of spots and at the back is genuine peril They've all got to catch Mystic Lake Mystic Lake midway around the fire turn in front by almost to now Corinth running bravely in that second position then comes Gervins princess gorgeous girl now starting to get back into the Bit out three or four deep trying to get on this leader Who's Mystic Lake? Mystic Lake arrives at the top of the stretch the lead stretched out to three now Gorgeous girl up on the outside of Corinth their second and third in behind them Gervins princess Nothing really materializing from the back It's Mystic Lake at the furlong grounds Mystic Lake a length and three quarters in front Corinth running a big one toward the inside then comes gorgeous girl Mystic Lake still there with a hundred yards left to go Gorgeous girl on the outside trying to rally up in a second Mystic Lake and a hold on the Mystic Lake to win the gasparilla Confident right by Zahas as Mystic Lake opens her 2024 campaign with a victory her second in five lifetime starts Scoring here as the four to five favorite by three quarters of a length in the gasparilla Clocking 1246 to 947 furlongs this success for Safi adding to five wins in the past week at Gulfstream Park Including a Saturday double this Safi's first stakes win for 2024 And you can begin the countdown now toward 100 stakes wins since he began his USA sojourn in 2011 He's now at 86 Gotta show you this one before we go three times you make a champion jockey Anthony Thomas narrowly defeating top flight Jock is at Gulfstream Park in one of the best wins He has had since moving his tack last summer from Kim and a spark to Florida in last Wednesday's ninth race at Gulfstream Park Thomas is in the yellow stills here aboard the five to one bed love paradox in second going in chase of champion Jockey Edgar Zahas aboard the leader Chloe's toy while threatening at about to move into third is a Continent's current number one rider Four-time Eclipse Award winner iradort is junior aboard the six horse the favorite splurge Watched in the Combox by Peter yellow They run to the top of the stretch with Chloe's toy still the target love paradox goes after the leader in second splurge Three wide and chiming into it from third under way from last is talking wonders off the turn in the stretch drive The leader is Chloe's toy trying to close the gap is love paradox splurge on the outside talking wonders is next They come past the eighth pole love paradox splurge They're both kicking from between love paradox and Anthony Thomas up to the task love paradox wins Perfect balance and poise Anthony Thomas champion jockey three times at Jamaica's K-manus park gets his eighth win since moving to Florida Scoring by a half a length with a five to one bet love paradox edging top Puerto Rico born jocks Zahas and Ortiz in the finish owned and trained by Muhtemail winning Jamaican trainer Rowan Crichton love paradox locks 103 54 in the five and a half furlong sprint Our usual weekly tally of wins for Caribbean racing men in the USA before we go in the past week Since our last show have counted 12 of them among them The Barbadian jock is Racheun Lachman and Kimar Trotman from child stone in West Virginia and victories to a New York's aqueduct race track For the Jamaican trainer child and Baker and the Jamaican jockie Romero Ramsey Mirage We've been at the track covering top stories that exciting races in the sport of kings check us out again next week


From Hollywood, the Hollywood Radio Theater, and the Tumblers. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Ken Carpenter. Tonight's play tells the colorful story of a tumbler who in the early 19th century made his carefree way from tavern to tavern, entertaining the guests until one night in a notorious inn he met a beautiful and mysterious young lady. Playing the role of the happy-go-lucky vagabond we have one of your all-time favorite stars, Fred McMurray. Our story tonight, The Lady and the Tumblers, is a curious but unforgettable one. It comes out of the half-forgotten style of the past and it's an odd mixture of comedy, romance, and violent action. It's people with lovely women in distress and strong bold men and dark cunning villains all set on a happy stage, just a level above reality. It's made of the stuff young boys dream of and young girls wish were more than dreams. But if you listen closely, you'll soon find that The Lady and the Tumblers, too, become as real as your next-door neighbor. And now, starring Mr. Fred McMurray, The Lady and the Tumblers. The only family I ever knew was my Uncle Jim Smith, who'd taken me up as a baby when I lost my parents. I was now 16 and I think of reasonable value to him. Jim was a professional strong man who took the name of stone crusher. It was spring in the year 1838 that we were wandering through Ohio, traveling slowly along the pikes with our cart and mare, and playing the ins and taverns with our tricks and acrobatics and feats of strength. For those who passed us on the road, Jim was just a big black-haired man and ragged, but to those who watched him in play or fight, he was a torrent of fierce-trained muscles and a wise man standing by might have caught in his dark, smokey eyes the glimpse of a startling brain. In those days, Jim was about 30 and in his prime. Look at the lightning, Andy.  Well, if it strikes the mare, it'll most likely strike us, too. But we'd better get off the pike and undercover. There's a tavern just ahead. We'll try our luck there, Andy. Get out, Jennifer. Let's go. We can still land dry. The rain's only beginning. That's not much of an inn, if you ask me. It looks more like a rundown farmhouse. An inn? A chubby may be good, Andy, or it may be evil. We'll soon see about this one. I guess this leantow is all they have for a stable. This is a wretched place. It doesn't look too good to me, either. But maybe we can play here for bait and bed. Come along. Now, Andy, this is a cheap place, so we'll put on our cheaper stack. The one where I sit on a chair and you tuck my legs behind my neck? Remember, you're very awkward about everything. I know, Jim. Just as I thought. Yes, nothing but loafers and roads come. Yeah. But look in the corner there, Jim, with that young man and all the luggage. Yes. Yes, I see her. She's quite a beauty. Huh. But what's a girl like that doing here? And with such a sullen-looking fellow? I must be waiting for a stage. Come on. And, uh, stumble a little when I take my bow. Ladies and gentlemen, you were about to be entertained by the great Stonecrusher. I'm... I'm sorry, Stonecrusher. I clumped my toe. Ah, forgive the boy, please. I picked him up in Louisville recently and he has not yet learned the trade. I'm teaching him one trick, though. All right, lad, sit on this chair. Now, I'll just tuck his legs behind his neck. So... Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh!  Well, he's got to be stretched a bit, Mr. or he'll never be able to do it by himself. Now then, lad, right yourself.  I can't, sir. Something's wrong. I seem to be locked. Well, that sometimes happens. Uh, maybe I'll have to cut a tendon. Oh! Oh! Oh! Does anyone have a nice, sharp knife? Ha-ha-ha. Let I'll do it this way. My uncle picked me up, swung me into the air in a somersault and walked away while I took the floor myself with a roll and a bounce as I'd done a thousand times before. He, meantime, was tumbling about the room and we finished by dancing on our hands as the audience tossed coin after coin at us. At last we picked up our money and retired to a corner table where Jim ordered meat and potatoes for us. It's a rum crowd, Andy, but it'll pay our bed and board. So it was taken in most of all, Jim, did you notice? Yes. She's a gentlewoman, Andy. She doesn't belong in this place. Well, the night stage will be long soon. They're only waiting like you said, Jim. I overheard the young man ask the innkeeper for rooms. They decided to spend the night. Huh? That's odd. One minute they're waiting for a stage and the next they're staying here. There goes the young man now. I'll back with the innkeeper. I say she deserves a presenter looking escort than him. She doesn't trust him, Andy. I can tell by the way she watches him. Yeah. She looks frightened. The fellow's deserting her, that's what. He's taking his police with him. Hey, you see, he's walking out and throwing her to the pack. Yes, they're already looking at her and talking about it. Jim, do you really think he has? Yes, but you finish your supper. Go out and unharness the mayor. I'll feed her shortly. I will, Jim. I went outside and as I rounded the corner of the inn and approached the lean-to, I suddenly came upon three men and a lamp. And then to my horror, I saw the young gentleman lying on the ground among them. He was dead from a cut throat. It was too late for me to fly, so I pretended stupidity.  And the men studied me in silence as I approached. Well, pup? What happened, sir? A young man was a squatch laid on his bill. That's what only he tripped and fell. He killed himself on that there side. See it? Oh, yes. Yes, I see it. What a pity. Poor fellow. A nasty accident. All right, boy. You nip in and tell the innkeeper's wife we want her. Tell her and nobody else. That's a smart lad. Yes, sir. I'll tell her. Jim, there's been an accident outside. So? Anybody hurt? The young gentleman. He tripped and fell on a side. It cut his throat. Well, that's very interesting. Yeah. Only there's no blood on the side.  I see. We'll have to act fast, Andy. Come with me. We'll talk to the girl. I know I'm boldness, but it's out of necessity. Whose necessity, sir? Yours or mine? Yours, miss. Speak, then. There's a young gentleman who left you. Is he a kinsman? He's neither kinsman nor friend. And I'm happy to be quit of him. You are very quit of him, miss. He's just been slain in the stable. Oh, no. I'm afraid it's so. Andy here saw him. Then I too am dead. Oh, come on. Oh, there's more to this than you know. I'm sure of it. My only hope has been the night stage, but they'll never let me board it now. We'll see about that. My life's not worth an apple seed. Oh, come now. Even Andy here's worth an apple seed. One should never under a value of oneself, miss.  Not while you have friends they won't. Andy, take her luggage quickly now, and out the door, both of you. Where to, Jim? Down the road, but stick to the brush. I'll be along with the cart soon enough. But can I trust you? You have no choice but to trust us. I suppose you're right. I'll go. Oh, here. Here, take my watch with you. But what for? Take it. Hurry now. Thank heaven. The rain's let up. Yeah. It's dark, though. Can you see well enough? I'll manage. But what about you with all that luggage? Oh, you forget I'm strong. Not as strong as Jim, of course. He's about the strongest man in all the world. He is? Of course. My name is Andy. What's yours? Well, it's Sandal. Sandal Carrick. Oh, that's a pretty name. Thank you. Tell me something. Why did he give me his watch back there? Well, Jim's mighty proud of that watch, Sandal. And he removes it on only three occasions. In stone crushing, and for time, certain feats of strength, and when he fights. Oh, I see. Jim's about the greatest fighter in all the world. He won't be long. We can stop here, don't you think? Girls certainly travel with plenty of luggage. I'm sorry. It's so heavy. I don't mind, really. What if he doesn't show up? Don't worry about him. He'll be long in a minute. But will he really put me on the night stage? Look, Sandal. We're showmen, not thieves. You've nothing to worry about. You can trust us. I don't trust any man. Not any more. There he comes now. See? Oh, yeah. His words true this far. Throw her luggage back, Andy. Here you are, miss. I'll give you a hand up. Now, just sit tight, and we'll go down the pike a bit and wait for the stage. But how would you stop it at night this way? I'll use a dry cat tail and some sperm oil. Want to make a fine torch. But where in the world? I've got some in the back. Carry it for fire-eating. Oh, of course. Did they show much fight, Jim? Yes, the innkeeper and your ape-like man and the whole herd of your friends. Did it go easily? Well, they had a lot to learn about fighting. They know now, eh? They know now. Oh, I nearly forgot. Here's your watch. Oh, thank you. Get out there, Jennifer. Soon after, we put Sandal Carrick on the stage, and a drove away with her safe inside. Then we pulled off the road and went to sleep under the cart. Next morning, we woke to a clear, sunny day. And pretty soon, Jim had strips of bacon rolled on sassafras twigs before a fire. After breakfast, I had my usual lessons. Latin, arithmetic, penmanship. Jim was a great scholar and a very patient teacher. When we were finished, he settled back on his haunches and looked at me. Well, Andy, I now have a surprise for you. Huh? Really, Jim? What is it? No need to smile. This is an unpleasant surprise. It just means more of last night's trouble. You mean we're not out of that? Go look in the back of the cart. I'll do it, Jim. This is the young gentleman's police. I remember seeing him leave the room with it. Yes, a little discovery I made while you were still writhing in slumber this morning. But how did it get in our cart? I've been thinking about that. I believe the girl who, uh, I believe the girl was in peril. And the young man who was supposed to be her protector decided to abandon ship. So he went outside and saw our cart in the lean-to. He stowed his release in the back and was just ready to drive off when he was overtaken and slain. Then he was going to steal our cart and mare. Well, if you ask me, he got what was coming to him. He wasn't killed for that. Open the release. Well, nothing much here, Jim. Just clothes. That's what I thought at first. Look in the toes of those boots. Great heavens.  Yes, I've counted it. $500. $500? Now look in the other toe. All right. It's-it's a-a letter of some sort, Jim. Yes, I know. I didn't take time to read it. Now give it to me. Here. Now then, it's addressed to a Mr. Barnum, four chimneys, blue lion, Ohio. Then that's the name of the young man who got his throat cut. Yes, poor Mr. Barnum. For such delicate handwriting must be a woman. Yes, it's signed by Miss Sandal Carrick. That's the girl, Jim.  She did. Well, I asked her to. Well, that's bad manners to ask her lady her name, Andy. But now we know who wrote the letter. It's still bad manners. Yeah. All right. But-but read it, Jim. LMC. Dear Mr. Barnum. Go on. I have reason to believe that you were in this horrible business against me despite our childhood friendship. I know I cannot buy the others out, but I have a feeling I can buy you off. You've always liked the color of money. Here is my proposition. Meet me in Cincinnati at the stage office on the 11th. Come with me on the journey home as my protector and then withdraw. For this I will pay you $500. Your ancestors were gentlemen, which I assume makes you a gentleman, signed Sandal Carrick. Fine protector, young Mr. Barnum turned out to be. Eh, Sandal Carrick made a bad choice in him. He was already against her, as she says in the letter. But-but why did he get murdered, Jim? Well, they must have known of the $500. Your ape-like man and his friends wanted it, that's all. They were waiting at the tavern then. Yeah, it looks that way. Barnum was in with them and had them planted there. He figured they'd kill Sandal Carrick and he got it instead. And they'd have killed her too if we hadn't stolen her away, Jim. I'm sure of it. But why they wanted to do this? We've no way of knowing. Yeah. Well, maybe Sandal will tell us when we return the money. Maybe. But where do we find her? Probably in that town, Blue Lion. No. No, I can see the letter reached Blue Lion by mail stage. But where it was mailed from, I can't tell. What do we do, Jim? Blast if I know. Well, you could figure that since we did the protecting and not Mr. Barnum, that we've earned the money. And that way we could just forget about Sandal Carrick and keep the $500. We made no such arrangements with a girl, Andy. Yeah. All right, Jim. So we'll just have to find her. We'll head for Blue Lion. Maybe we can get a lead on her there. Hell, let's pack up and be on our way. In just a moment, we will continue with act two of the Hollywood Radio Theater. An Indiana soldier by the name of Birch Bay, yes, that's his real name, carried a little excess equipment overseas with him to Germany for occupation duty. To be exact, he had $4 worth of vegetable garden seeds in his duffel bag. You see, Birch had been a star pupil in agricultural extension work and president of his 4-H club for two years. His military police company arrived for duty in the little German village of Hungen. Here, Birch set out word to the children that he had a job for them. 90 turned up and they represented 45 different families. During his off-duty hours, Birch laid out a garden tract on the edge of town in 45 plots, each 6 by 20 feet. He parceled out the seeds and supervised the planting. An astonishing quantity of vegetables was raised and something else was raised too. The morale of all the people in the village who needed not only food for their stomachs but sustenance for their spirits. Such acts by you and your friends today are shaping our world of tomorrow. Now here's act two of the Lady and the Tumblers starring Fred McBurray as Jim. Just at dusk the following evening, we came to the town of Blue Lion, a pleasant, sleepy hamlet built about the Blue Lion Tavern which was a large showy inn and obviously thriving. We turned our mare over to a groom and entered. As the innkeeper came forward to meet us, he noticed our ragged clothes and his eyes grew stony.  Good day, gentlemen. Good day, sir, and my compliments on this elite hostel ray. Thank you, but our rates are rather high, my friend. There's a farmer's in just north of town. There are times, sir, when I enjoy high rates. I'll be happy to meet your prices if you'll tolerate us. If you meet my prices, I'll be happy to tolerate you. Excellent. Here you are then. Will that cover it? What? A copper penny? Take this back and be off with you. No, you're mistaken, sir. Look again. What? But now it's a quarter eagle. Ah, you play tricks? Only to make friends. Well, well. Well, for such money, you shall have the best here. You come with me. I'll find you a table and you shall eat this way. But Jim, a quarter eagle for a night's lodging. Have you lost your mind? Possibly. Time will tell. What do you mean? For a quarter eagle, we want first a friendly host, then information. Next, good food and a good bed. And finally, the return of our quarter eagle. There have been worse deals. We're headed for trouble if you ask me. Man is born to trouble, Andy. Here you are, gentlemen. Sit down. We serve the best food in Ohio here, and from the best plate in China, where west of the Allegheny. Ah, I'm glad to hear that. But before we eat, I have a question. Well, it strikes me that I have an acquaintance in this town of Green Lion, a Miss Sandal Carrick. She and her mother have quarters with a relative, I believe, a Mr. Farnham, who lives in a house known as the Chimney on South Crown Street. Now, is this Mr. Farnham present among your guests this evening? I'm afraid you're rather badly confused, my friend. This fine town is Blue Lion, not Green. I've never heard of any Miss Sandal Carrick here. There's no Farnham hereabouts, Mr. Farnham, and he lives alone. Also, his residence is known as Four Chimneys, not the Chimney, and lies first house beyond the creek on Oak Lane, not South Crown Street. Furthermore, he's now deceased as of two days ago from an accident down Cincinnati Way. There. Have I made myself clear? Intellibly, sir, and I thank you. We'll have our supper now. I wish you a good appetite. Thank you. That was very clever, Jim, but it only leads us to the house of a dead man. Sandal Carrick doesn't even live in this town. True, true. Oh, then wouldn't it be easier to advertise for her? We'd find her that way eventually. Don't forget she's in danger, Andy. Immediate danger. I never saw you so determined to help anyone, Jim. Hmm. Andy, your father died of a broken heart, as they say, soon after your mother's death. I've never told you this. No? No, you haven't. But why are you telling me now?  What? We were standing in an in-yard down in Savannah, just your mother and I. And she was written down by a crazy, fractious horse. I saw the horse rear and shouted a warning. But, Jim, how do you see it that you were careless? You warned her. I should have thrown the horse to the ground. I should have thrown him bodily on his side on the cobblestones. I've never seen such a feat performed. You'd have seen it then, Andy, had I only my wits about me. I knew that horse was a killer when I looked into his glassy eye.  I do. But never again will I permit a killer, man or beast, to ride down a helpless woman. Oh, I see. You're thinking of Sandal Carrick. I'm thinking of Sandal Carrick. After our supper, we went out into the night and made our way to Oak Lane, where we found Mr. Barnum's house, dark and shuttered. There, Jim left me in the yard and showed a likely window on the second story and climbed up to it. A moment later, he prided open and was inside. I could see a match flare as he lighted a taper and began to search the room. And then suddenly, my throat went stiff. Another light appeared in a room just below. Two lights, one upstairs and one down. I started across the yard to warn him somehow, then his light went black and I realized he must be going downstairs. I ran around to the front door, found it off-bolt and entered. Down the hall way ahead of me, I saw candlelight from an open door and I crept up to it. Inside, Jim was leaning against the wall by a huge mirror and across the room from him, holding a rather long, flat, rosewood box was Sandal Carrick. And what is that you're carrying under your arm, Miss Carrick? Never mind. I hardly expected to meet you here. I've been searching for you. I have five hundred dollars that rightfully belongs to you. You what? Money I recovered from the effects of the late Mr. Barnum. Oh. And what became of the boy who was with you? Which boy? Boys to me are like thistles, without number or value. I pick them up and discard them thrice weekly. Then may I ask what brings you here? The money and the fact that you led me to believe you were in peril. I've been searching you out to help you. Ha! I have no other aim or desire. Ha! I'm telling you the truth. It appears to me, sir, that you've accidentally stumbled upon something which you believe can be turned to profit and that you've come to this house in an attempt to gain further information to that end. I see. I think it's your hope to replace Mr. Barnum himself in the jeopardy which has been laid against me. Therefore, I consider you a menace. Oh, I am a menace. I no longer trust anybody at all. I'm a different person of late and I've decided to handle this business and you, too, by myself, firmly and squarely as it should be handled. Excellent. I quite approve. You ask about this box I brought with me. Well, it's for emergencies like this. I will meet your price. I doubt if you can. We shall see. Stay where you are while I open it. Sandal laid the rosewood box on a nearby table. Then she carefully opened it and drew forth an enormous horseman's pistol. She swung it around with both hands as though it were a cannon on wheels, pointed it at Jim, and pulled the trigger. Well, you missed, Miss Carrick. You shouldn't fire a pistol at anyone unless you can hit him. I have a second chance. Perhaps you didn't know that these things come in pairs. Oh, yes, like doves. Now then. Jim was across the floor with a tumble and a leak as she was in his arms. Gently his powerful right hand clamped about her wrists and forced the pistol muzzle above her head. Then he slowly pulled the trigger. There. Now you may replace the pistols in the box. Oh, you... you brute.  I would have, too. Hello. Andy. Good evening, Sandal. But he said he'd thrown you away or something. Jim likes to be diabolical. Oh, you're rather well-educated for a tavern player. Jim educates me every day. Oh? I think I almost killed him.  You confuse me, both of you. I'll be going now. Where? Where do you live, Sandal? Uh... Tell me, Miss Carrick, how are you fixed for transportation? I have a riding horse hidden in a thicket by the creek. Splendid. Goodbye. Oh, here. Don't forget your pistol box. Thank you. And here in this pouch is your $500. Thank you, sir. Good night. Good night. Sandal Carrick was about the most suspicious woman I'd ever met, but perhaps she had good cause to be. Jim and I said no more about her until noon next day when we were far to the north of Blue Lion.  After we'd finished, Jim pulled a paper-wrapped bundle from his coat pocket. Here, Andy. Catch. I found that last night in Mr. Barnum's bedroom. What is it? Open it. Why, they're mittens. And of the most beautiful fur. Northern links, in fact. So? That's what it says in this letter. It was attached to the bundle. Read it, Jim. It was addressed to Mr. Barnum from somebody called J.C. Ives. And it says, Here's something to make old Jason Peregrine really drool. Northern links mittens. Post them to him from Cincinnati as you did the beaver laprobe. Enclosed is a letter I have written for you to send along with them. Yours, C.J. Ives. What's it all about, Jim? Well, the enclosed letter to Jason Peregrine explains a lot. What's it say? Well, let me see. Here it gives me great pleasure to inform you that the Peregrine Ives Fur Company has just established a new and thriving string of posts in the Popo-Edgy River Country. And it gives me further pleasure to send along this pair of Northern links mittens fashioned especially for you by one of our trappers deep in the Teton Mountain Range. Respectfully our detriment manager, St. Louis Branch Peregrine Ives Fur Company. Well, that doesn't explain much to me, Jim. You haven't lived in the world long enough, Andy. It's clear to me that Jason Peregrine and C.J. Ives own the Peregrine Ives Fur Company. Well, I understood that much. But it's also clear to me that Peregrine's partner Ives is swindling in. There's really no fur company at all. The manager in St. Louis is nonexistent. And he's kept Peregrine coming on by having presents like those mittens and the lap robes sent to him. It's all a hoax to get Jason Peregrine's money. Where does this Peregrine live, Jim? Well, according to the address, it's Matletsville, Ohio. Matletsville? Yes, it's about 10 miles up the pike. We'll be there tonight. Good. Let's get started. What'll I do with these mittens? I'll wrap them up. We'll take them along. Mr. Barnum evidently failed to mail them. Maybe his conscience began to bother him. You're learning, Andy. And maybe that's why he got killed. Yeah, you're growing up by the minute, my boy. You think we'll find Sandal Carrick in Matletsville, Jim? It wouldn't surprise me a bit. That is, if she's still alive. Oh, Jim, they wouldn't dare. They've killed one person already, Andy. Come on, let's be on our way. Three of the Hollywood Radio Theater will continue in just a few moments. Corporal Sam Adler of the 2nd Armored Division had an idea that he could put his talent to work for the betterment of German-American relations. His background included two college degrees in music, and he knew that there were many musicians in the Army. So he organized the 7th Army Symphony Orchestra. It was a spare-time project that soon gained official notice, and the group made a total of 44 appearances in 43 days. New and difficult scores were learned almost overnight, and German and American music was played at each concert. Everywhere the orchestra traveled, the audiences greeted it with amazement and wild applause. Here was a group, a cross-section of America, representing all races and creeds that brought together thousands of people on a common cultural and spiritual plane. There's no doubt that through the medium of music, Corporal Sam Adler made a substantial contribution to the improvement of German-American relations. Such acts as these by you and your friends today are shaping our world of tomorrow. The spotlight had come when Jim and I creaked into Matletsville. It was a fair-sized town with two inns facing the main square. One was a huge frame monstrosity, bearing the sign Cumberland House, and the other was a squalid shack whose sign said simply, Beds and food, Sam Mahaffey, proprietor. Jim drove past the Cumberland House and into the tumbledown stable of Sam Mahaffey's ruined inn. There he tied the mare, and we walked back to the front door and entered. A short jovial man with mutton chop whiskers greeted us. Strangers, guests, friends, customers, welcome to Sam Mahaffey's Humble Inn. Thank you, sir. Thank you. You don't look rich, either you or the lad, but that's all right, my inn is plain, so it won't cost you much. I'm not a journeyman grubbing for his sustenance, sir. I am stone crusher, the strongest man in the world. Then you are all the more welcome. I like to look in your eye the moment I saw you. Tomorrow in the square outside, I intend to give an exhibition, pitting my strength against a mammoth rock. I carry play builds announcing this performance. Would you be good enough to tell me which places it's prohibited to tack such builds? Certainly I will. Your builds are not allowed on the Elm before the courthouse, nor on any shop door, nor on the pillars of the Cumberland House. Then I'll tack them in those places only for the sake of causing anger and rumor and excitement, you understand?  I have a little daughter who'll enjoy the show with me tomorrow. Good, Sam. And now, one other matter. A cabinet maker I know did some work here once for a very charming lady, a Miss Sandal Ives. You're twisted. It's Miss Sandal Carrick. She lives with her grandfather, Jason Peregrine, across the square fourth house down from the Cumberland. I had it wrong. You did indeed. CJ Ives is an entirely different party. His office is straight across the square next to the inn. I don't love him at all. He's rich, though. Owns the Cumberland House. With your permission, Sam, I think we'll pay CA Ives a visit before supper.  Do as you like. Supper's in an hour. We'll be here. Come along, Andy. Did you hear what he said, Jim? It's Sandal's grandfather. Jason Peregrine. Yes. No wonder she's mixed up in this. But what are you going to say to CJ Ives? Oh, anything that comes to mind, Andy. Anything that will upset him for the moment and make him at least hesitate about doing Sandal Carrick in. There he is. In his office. See him? Yes. Looks like a possum, doesn't he? Except a possum's harmless. Let's go in, Andy. Let's go closer, Andy.  Do you hear me? We are destitute, sir. We've just finished a hard journey.  Oh, I'm sorry, sir. What's this about a hard journey? 1,500 miles. All the way in from the Popo Agi country, sir. That's Trans-Mississippi, you know. I'm a trapper stranded here in Matlitzville. A trapper, you say? From the Popo Agi country? No, no, from the Teton range. I'm very familiar with the Popo Agi country, however. You are, eh? How goes the fur business there? There is no fur business along the Popo Agi now. It's moved back. Oh, you must be mistaken. I have a string of posts along the Popo Agi. I've seen no fur posts along the Popo Agi. Perhaps you mean along the snake. I mean along the Popo Agi. Then, sir, I think you are being swindled. If you are financing fur posts along the Popo Agi, you certainly are being swindled. Swindled. Stop saying that word. I'm sorry, sir. What are you doing here, anyway? Have you ever heard of a trapper being stranded? Oh, no, sir. Not trapper. Trooper. What? I'm a showman. Oh. Then what were you doing in the Teton mountains performing for Grizzlies? I was visiting my brother. He's a trapper, not a trooper. What? Perform for Grizzlies, you say? No, no, no. I'm too shrewd for that. There. Two dollars. Now, get out of here. Well, the gentleman wants an exhibition, Andy. What would you like, sir? A little tumbling, perhaps? Or fire eating? No exhibition. I want you to get out of town. Out of town by daybreak, or you'll regret it. Do you hear? That money's foul, Andy. Leave it. Get out. You are unwell, sir. Come along, Andy. Well, Andy, did you enjoy yourself? I did not. Andy J. Ives gave me a chill, Jim. And quite rightly. He's obviously the person who ordered the murder of Mr. Barnum. And who's after Sandal Carrick? We've got him on the run, Andy. We've got him topsy-turvy. I think what you mean, Jim, is that he's going to have to get rid of us next. Isn't that it?  Every single day. But wait. This, I believe, is the house, according to Sam Mahappy. Yeah. I wonder if she's home. Yeah, we'll soon see. But, heavens... Miss Carrick, I think I've got this business figured out. May we come inside? Come in. Come in. Won't you sit down? Thank you. Hello, Sandal. Hello, Andy. Well? Miss Carrick, where is your grandfather, Jason Peregrine? He's a very old man, and he retires early. Oh. Is he a very wealthy man? He owns about half the town. He doesn't own Cumberland House. Not once, but that and a few other properties seem somehow to have gotten into the hands of a certain C.J. Ives. Yes. You shouldn't be trying to help me. Well, perhaps not, but I've started, and I don't seem to be able to stop. I think I'm beginning to trust you. I don't quite know why. Well, it's easier than trying to pistol me. Oh. Tell me, do you know that this Ives is swindling your grandfather, that the Peregrine Ives for a company is a myth? I've long suspected it, but I have no proof, and I can't tell my grandfather. He's old and proud, and it's his money. Let him spend it as he wishes. Why did you make that trip to Cincinnati with Barnum? I went to Cincinnati alone. A man named Determan wrote me from there, warning me to leave my grandfather's affairs alone. Determan is nonexistent. So I discovered. Then I bribed Mr. Barnum to come back with me for protection. Why did you stop at that miserable inn? Well, that was Mr. Barnum's idea to throw off pursuers, if any. He brought you there to have you slain. I suspected as much when I saw Mansur there. And who is Mansur? Mr. Ives Bodyguard. You and Andy mentioned him, an ape-like man. Oh, that one. He's the one who killed Mr. Barnum. Yes, for the $500. And then he would have been after you. Yes, I know.  Trust me now, Sandal. Yes, Jim. I trust you. Well, this business is far from finished. But we'll see it through. Oh, you must be careful. There are times when it doesn't pay to be careful. Good night. Oh, please. Come, Andy. In a minute, Jim. Sandal. What is it, Andy? I want to tell you something. About Jim? No, about me this time. Well, of course, Andy.  Oh? Have you ever been an ant? No. Well, Jim's my uncle. Of all the feats Jim performed, stone-crushing frightened me most. First, we went into the country and selected a thick slab of stone, weighing, goodness knows how much. Then we brought it back to the square where half the town had gathered.  I was sure she'd never seen stone-crushing before, or she'd have been as worried as I was. Sam Mahaffey came up with his little daughter and stood by me as Jim stripped to the waist and faced the crowd. Ladies and gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen, you are about to witness a marvelous exhibition of strength. Muscle and bone against cold iron and rock. There on the grass lies a monster stone that I will have placed on my chest, where a volunteer will smash it with this sledgehammer. On my honor, there is no fakery to this. It is a matter of brute strength alone. Now I need two husky men to place the rock on my chest. You, sir, and you, if you will, step forward. Sam Mahaffey, I suspect you've been acting as our advance agent. This is quite a crowd.  And I'll also need a volunteer to break the stone with this sledge, who among you would enjoy this memorable pleasure. This is the danger, Sam. But you see, if the volunteer can't handle a sledge, the hammerhead might slew when it hits the rocks and strike Jim in the skull. That would be sure death. Surely there's a man strong enough among you to wield the sledge? I will. I'll take a try. Oh, no, Sam. It's that ape mancer. He's a murderer.  I know him well. Hold up a minute. I want my woman to see this. We'll wait, Sam. Hop into the house, daughter, and get mama. And while you're there, look in the top drawer of my dresser and bring back my thingamabob. Be sure it's loaded. Then wrap it in a towel and come back. Hurry now. What's on your mind, Mahaffey? Why, nothing at all, mancer. I'm referring to my pipe. There's a craving for a smoke coming over me.  I'm sorry for that, and I apologize all around. I mean to get the fullest enjoyment out of this here stone crushing, and I need my thingamabob to do it. My woman will enjoy it too. I want you to know, mancer, that I'm mighty fond of that strong man. Here they come back already. Now, you see, that didn't take so long.  How do you figure that now? Ah, thank you, daughter, yes. This is just what I wanted.  Now, we can get along with this, and I thank you kindly for waiting. By the way, I sure hope mancer hits her a good square blow. So do I. He will, Jim. Never you fear, he will. All right, men, let us proceed. Jim laid himself on the turf, and the huge rock was placed on his chest. Then he braced himself on his heels and hands, inflated his chest, and nodded to mancer, and danced once at Sam Mahaffey, and then took up the sledge. He set his feet, took a deep breath, and swung. It was a tremendous pile-driver blow, and it was meant to destroy Jim, even though the hammer struck squarely and there was no slew. The rock was shattered, and mancer stood there with a look of pure evil on his face. The crowd saw that look and jeered until he dropped the hammer and walked away. Then Jim got to his feet and clasped his hands over his head. Thank you, thank you. And now my lad and I will pass among you and take up a collection. If you think this performance was a fake, I beg you to give us nothing. Okay, Jim, and thanks to you, Sam Mahaffey. It was a good show all around, I figure. Go get your money now. The crowd gave generously and applauded even as Jim and I left the square and walked into Mahaffey's place. There, Jim bathed, and we had lunch. But not before he'd taken Sam Mahaffey's hand and silently thanked him. After we'd eaten, we went out into the square again and started for Sandal Carrick's. But then I sighted her standing before a lace and ribbon shop next to the Cumberland house, so we crossed over and joined her there. Did you enjoy the stone-crushing Sandal? No, I did not. I was terrified. It hadn't been for Sam Mahaffey and his pistol. Beth was a pistol, wasn't it? I think Mansa would surely have killed you. Well, he did his best anyway. But I want to ask you about something else. Yes? Do you have a good lawyer? We have a fine lawyer, but he does what my grandfather tells him to do. Not if it involves a murder. Have him at CJI's office at four o'clock. Ah, you do order me about, don't you? Do you reject? No. Oddly enough, I don't. Keep this for me till then. Oh, you'll watch again. Now, uh, where can I find this Mansa? Jim, no, you can't find him. I'll just waste time looking for him if you don't tell me. Oh, all right. He lodges right there at the Cumberland house. Most generally, he's down in the tavern cellar.  You'll find it. We'll meet at four o'clock at Ives. Yes, yes. Till then. Don't worry, Sandal. We'll be all right. Well, please, please be careful.  I'll see you at supper. Not very likely. I'm coming along with you. Well, all right, but stay out of the way. I'll stay out of the way. You can learn by watching. I know. Well, at least there's still time. Time?  Nor will he, by heaven. There's a door. That must be the cellar. We'll try it. It's all stone. The whole cellar. A big place, isn't it? Yeah. There's somebody over there, Jim. And they've got a well down here. Said right level where the floor it is. This man's a giant. He is indeed. Excuse me, sir. Where can I find Mr. Mansur? I'm Mr. Mansur. You? No, the Mansur I have in mind is as stout as you, but shorter. His legs are badly bowed. That's my brother Joe. I'm Tom, the host here. I run this here place. That's fine. Now, where can I find Joe, Mansur? Joe? Well, well. How'd you do it, Tom? He done it himself. He walked right in as pretty as you please. But he brought his cub. We'll drop him in the well, eh? Where there's room for one, there's room for two. I'll use my knife. Stay clear, Andy. We'll take care of you firsts. Wrong man! Jim ludge straight forward and loose a crashing blow to Joe Mansur's stomach. The man dropped his knife and sagged to all fours as Jim swung around to meet his brother with a wild blow that landed hard on the temple. The innkeeper was momentarily dazed and Jim took his time about landing another on the point of the jaw. And he went down hard. Then Joe Mansur, who had regained his feet, was on top of Jim before he could turn. They went to the floor, but with a sudden twist, Jim was on his back. His shoulders against the stone and his knees to his stomach. He breathed once and then shot both feet straight up. Mansur caught the blow square in his chest and reeled backward, backward and into the well mouth. Where he disappeared. He can't swim. Joe can't swim. Neither can I. But I'll take a look. Well, that's too bad. He must have hit his head on the way down. He's not even splashing. Then he's dead. We can't get a rope down to him now.   Out by daybreak.  I'll go. I'll go. I'll see that you do or you'll end up like your brother. Come along, Andy. It must be nearly four o'clock. I want to go to my happy's and clean up a bit first. Thought I told you to leave town. So you did, Ives. But it's a curious thing. Instead, I just told your innkeeper to leave town. What? Tom Banser? And you're next. Now look, I don't know just what you're up to, but there are ways of taking care of you. No, not now. Your Joe Banser just tried murdering me. But this time he killed himself, as you might say. Oh, no. Jim. All right. I am. And you're safe now, Sandal. What is this? What are you all doing here? Hey, Jim, this is Mr. Sillsby, my attorney. How do you do, sir? How do you do? Now, I too would like to know why we are here. It has to do with these, Mr. Sillsby. Uh, firmittons? Where did you get those? And, uh, these letters. I think they'll explain everything. Ah, I see. Um, yeah, yeah, make the old buzzard drool. Post them as you did the laprobe. Well, well, Pope Archie River Country, one of our trappers, my, my, Deadamon manager, St. Louis. Say, this is something. It's quite clear, don't you think? Oh, quite clear, quite clear. Then I want all the property, including the Cumberland House, that Ives has defrauded Mr. Peregrinov, to be reassigned immediately under your direction. No, wait. Please, listen. Ives, from the very beginning, I have never liked you, and this is going to give me great pleasure. In fact, I'll happily assist in your prosecution. Maybe we can prosecute him for murder while we're at it. It was his hireling, Joe Manser, who murdered Mr. Barnum. Andy, here is a witness. How do you like that? Oh, I like it very much indeed. I certainly do. No, no, you must listen. I know nothing of any murder. I do admit I've somewhat misrepresented things to Mr. Peregrinov, but I'm willing to make full restitution. It so happens I'm about to leave town. By daybreak? No, now. By sunset. Take care of the legal matters, will you, Mr. Selsby? At once, I certainly will. Oh, yes. Come then, Sandal. They can work this out alone. Yes, Jim. Yes, Sandal. It's a beautiful night. That isn't what you meant to say. All right.  Miss it? Oh, yes, I'll, I'll miss it. Oh. But I can still do some tumbling and odd tricks right here. Oh. I've already spoken to Sam. We're happy about it. And as soon as he's installed as host at the Cumberland House, I can show there regularly. You won't mind. I wouldn't miss a performance for all the world. Perhaps I can teach you some tricks, too. Me? A good heavens like what? Well, like fancy shooting with pistols. Jim, how horrible. I might have killed you then. But you didn't. A good thing, too. Is it, Jim? Why? Well, because of Andy. Andy? Yes.  Yes, I do know. Andy told me. Oh. But Andy will be all right now. Of course he will, Sandal. And I'll do my best, Jim, for both of you. Then we'll both be all right now. One moment. Fred McMurray will return. Captain John J. Degnan had never seen the French city of Royale except from the air. During World War II, our flying fortresses were forced to destroy it almost entirely. It was during a critical time, the Battle of the Bows, and Royale was a key point in the German supply line. But after the war, Captain Degnan got a bunch of his friends together to help the people of Royale. Not long afterwards, 600 babies wore clothes collected by his group, as did more than a thousand school children. These clothes, possibly, are still being worn by other children in Royale. Such acts by you and your friends today are shaping our world of tomorrow. Now, here's Fred McMurray. I certainly must be exhausting, Fred. Oh, that tumbling detective work romance. Oh, Kennedy, as it is, I'm going right home and lying down. I wish you would. I understand, Fred. After your latest picture for Republic, Fairwind to Java, one of the most exciting action-filled dramas we've seen, you deserve a rest. Oh, thank you, Ken. Now, just relax and listen. I understand it's a romantic comedy next week. Yes, and a delightful one, Fred, titled The Fall of Maggie Phillips. And as our star, we'll have one of the finest actresses on screen or stage, Dorothy McGuire. Well, that's for me, Ken. Good night. Good night. Hollywood Radio Theatre is a presentation of the United States Armed Forces Radio Service.


Okay Julie, let's go see what we got in this little guy. Maybe there's something special in here. There it is. Look at that, huh? What do you know? Okay, Julie, let's do some hand-tramming see if that thing still works. We've got work to do today. I hope you're bringing out a full car. A little harder. You've got to get your minor muscles going. Yeah, there's a couple of rocks there near the track. We had to make sure the switch was set. You got it. You didn't derail. So this is a rear dumping swivel cart. Here we're looking at the front of it. Julie's gonna show you this. This is the handle that would unlatch it and allow it to tip backwards. So what you would do is you would take that big nail off. That's a lock. It's a loop. And then you would pull that handle towards me and it would unlock this from down here. And then that would allow you to tip this bottom part up. Go ahead and relock it. That's the safety catch. That's the lock. So then when you undid that part, this part, the gate with these hinges would swivel open, swing open this way. And there's also a catch down here. And it also swivels. See the swivel down here? Dump it and load it different directions. There's a piece of a natural timber on the bottom of it for a bumper, I guess. The one when we're out. Boy, I wonder how what stories this could tell. According to my sources, Roy Ladd hauled this in piece by piece and he was one who didn't sell much of his ore. And you can see there's a lot of ore laying around that this car obviously hauled out of this mine. So let's go back in the mine. There's another steel car in here. So this is also a rear dump. This one's empty. You can see the tracks go around the corner there. You want to trim this one forward or outside? Outside, so we can see it. Julie, doing some more hand-training.  Watch your fingers. You don't want to get your fingers on the edge of that when they hit the wall. That would hurt. Now watch your switch. This one's painted red for some reason.  Oh Stop, stop. Go back. I meant the other way. Hold on. Kick it a little over. There you go. Just make sure you catch that with the inside of your wheel. Nope. Nope. Nope. Kick it over there. Pull your car that way. There you go. Okay. Now Julie's got the switch figured out. So that's also a rear dumper. Here's your latch and handle over here. Similar to the old one. You pull that loop off the handle and you unlatch it the same as the other one. Let's see if there's a rear latch.  So go ahead and tip it up. Yep. Tip it up. You just dumped it. All right, bring it back. Is it that heavy? It's heavy. Okay, hold on. Okay, bring it all the way up now. All right, now see if you can latch here. Yep, it latches on this side. You latch on that side. Take it down a little bit. Okay, so then you relatch the back of it here. There you go. Tighten it down. There you go. Now put your ring on there. That's your locking ring. And you're ready to trim in there for another load. Pretty cool. Well, we got to get out of here, Julie. We got a long hike back. It's been a great day of mine exploring. Hope you guys enjoyed it. Kind of the holy grail of mine exploring to find Roy Lads, mine, wooden ore cart, and cabin. Thanks for watching the video. We do appreciate it as always. And until next time, I'm Julie signing off.