meeting to order. If you look at the agenda, we're going to move any items around on the agenda. Okay, I'll do it. Okay, it's not much of the agenda. I think we're going to have a quick meeting. And so the third item on the agenda that is comments from the chair, there's a few things I wanted to invite Kim to talk about and something he forwarded, the downsizing group, but firstly I just want to acknowledge that our planning department has been operating without a zoning administrator implementing new zoning and so we're going to have a pretty thin meeting tonight. And as we can get the new zoning administrator in and we're fully staffed, we're going to move up and get things going. So we just had to be a little bit patient right now, or we have to do the work ourselves. Those are our options. You'll be patient. Just to acknowledge that some people are working a lot right now. And then are you at Liberty to announce the new zoning administrator? It is Meredith Strobridge-Crandall, so she grew up in the area, so some people might know her by her maiden name and she's a VLS grad from her JD, but she lives in Worcester and she was interested in doing this and focusing on her family and spending a little more time working them up there. That's a great fit. That's a nice bike ride. Is she still 8-tenths then? She's still 8.8. That's very good. We've got an excellent candidate. I think she'll be good. So we've addition everything else with the vacancy. We have been renovating the office downstairs. Yeah. Nice colors. So we switched offices, so I'm now... If you come in, I'm to the right where Sarah used to be, and Meredith is in my office. Would you get his own permit for all this furniture? Yeah. A major cyclist. A building permit for your colors. So that's good. A lot going on. Great. And Kim hoarded an email from the downsizing event. Oh, I just thought it would be of interest as to what the building is going on in town. You can't bring about housing. That's what's happening. Those projects, I don't think. And some of them are out of town. Was there any mention of the Main Street project down there? The French spot? No, the one up on Main Street. No. 109 Main or I can't remember what the number is. 250. Oh, 250, right. Last, I don't know if you think people would pick up trucks, and they're huddled around it with no folks who know you're in trouble. So we had some of those guys around. Here, is that right? It's been a long time. Could have been a long time. They were working last year on it. And they put in some... They put in a sketch plan for a PUD, but they never submitted a final as far as I know. So they've been under the new zone. They're going to be under the new zone. I would think so, yeah. So, I don't know what's going on in there. Okay, I just wondered, I didn't see it in there, but... One iteration was to do little cottages, which I think would be a sense for you. Not many people ask me about it. So, I'm great and see. You all know, I'm not accused of any discussions. But at least that allows you to speak to meetings. What's that?  Sure. So... But I... I don't want to kiss, but... I just have sent out the links to several different links. And I'm not convinced the ORCA one works, so... I sent out the one through NET Zero Vermont, which is much easier to navigate. Thank you for doing that. Yeah, thank you. It came in this afternoon. Yeah. Yeah, I know. It was not early. I was... It's okay, we have a little time. I kind of fell asleep since we didn't have a meeting two weeks ago. I know. Yeah. It was with the Lucera leaving. Yeah. Made sense. I had to be... I had to miss the meeting, too. So, it just seemed to... We'll just skip that meeting. I could give just a brief report on my visit to the historic preservation. Sure. People. There were two meetings. I think one was public meeting in this room. Kirby testified several others. I was powerpoint in the dark, and you can't either see that or know who's speaking. Major way to me, it was a real bust. They told the committee that. They did cultivate some people that are interested in this. They testified, and it was a good start. And I went to the next meeting. Design review ordinances from about five different cities. And they're passing them around the table and against him. This is your guy's job if you're going to get an idea running through your expert. One of the things that was presented that meeting was an essay by... There's a central historic preservation to form the punishment. We should be punished equally, and we should get against historic people. But I think the idea was... Well, you can imagine those discussions. Everybody looks at the ordinance and says it's too vague, and I don't really agree on that, but they can't agree on anything else. So, that was going to go to the expert. I did go up on tour close to the street again. And I think I figured out why it was... All during this whole controversy, I was never able to get any historic preservative to tell me why it was in historic history. Often people wanted to know that early on. Before I throw some out, I want to know why it's in there. But nobody, really nobody could pay any historical period in your buildings or whatever that said this should be in a historical history. That's where this city began, on the rivers. It probably polluted its island state, and everybody went uphill and they flooded. It's really, to me, it's like Mount Everest. It's important because it's there. And it is so visible from the downtown. I mean, it really is. It really is a very unique collection. Just the houses that are built while hanging off of a cliff. There's some extraordinary things that go out up there that are really interesting. My son, who's on the design review commission, is in somewhat frustrated in America. He says, look, I don't care anything about history, but I care about his design materials that are as authentic. He says, don't ask me what an authentic is. If you want to slap vinyl on something from window frames and things like that, these kind of materials really detract from this design and diminish the historical, the trip down memory lane, if you want, the whole history of that place. So I'm hoping some, seem to me, you can come up with criteria that didn't necessarily talk historical, but talked about preservation, buildings that are uniquely built that are in an interesting environment and twisting all those corners. I think giving a little thought, you could come up with criteria that are good design. You could look beyond just individual buildings, because that's a neighborhood that acts together. It's not one particular building is unique up there. So if they expand this to look at some of the criteria, I think that would be useful for that particular group. I mean, it's like the Meadow. The Meadow has a really unique character, too. I think there's some creativity that might even satisfy people, in part, a little bit of satisfaction. But I'm hoping historical people won't just take in and say, everything used to be historically correct. I think there's a much more creative way. I talked to Eric. During the presentation, I made some comments about social issues being a part of this and making sure that our community is accessible to everyone associated with that. And that's my concerns as well in person. But then after I spoke to Eric about that a little bit, he mentioned using review design reviews as a kind of a service, which is something that I can really get on board with and go approaching it in life. Some of it's just changing people's perception of what it's about, but also making sure that the rules aren't so coming in that it does feel more like a service where people are going to go and they get these ideas and suggestions from more knowledgeable people. And if we can get to a point where design reviews like that, I think that would be a success. And in all the while thinking about those social issues and making sure that it's not used as a barrier, I think that's what I'm going to be thinking about throughout this. Kirby, how do you see it necessarily as a barrier? I'm trying to get an understanding of what you're saying. Where people feel like they can't afford to live somewhere because of the requirements on them, that they feel like they can't comply with the design review. In an existing house that's already... We can't use material that's more affordable. Yeah. Potentially. Potentially. They could use a similar material. But if design review can be set up to tell people this is a nice looking and cheaper way to do your project, that's the kind of service that could be great. I have a similar concern in working in affordable housing. I have a lot of feelings about historic preservation because it just... Also thinking about energy efficiency, oftentimes. The state historic preservation almost made the French block developer keep those windows, which would be very... not good for operability, not good for energy efficiency, so I think there's that concern as well. Yeah, I think the sort of rigid application of the department standards are definitely a problem. And technically design review is an advisory committee now, so it seems that it would just be a matter of maybe making it... making there an informal approach first before they actually came to design review. I think there's a lot of room and we can get creative about building up how it is a service and potentially not change a whole lot and just be happy about it. Yeah, I think that approach that looking at it like that as a service for the public. Yeah, and it's even possible too that maybe that service could expand somewhat to allow for some of the larger homes that the owners would like to subdivide as basically as we're allowing them on the zoning to do that in a respectful way to their historic fabric too, which is certainly very easy to do generally, not always, but generally. It's just a matter of looking at something one way as opposed to another way. And it... I actually hope that maybe one of the things that would come out with their workbook is that they would have examples of this is how not to do things. Of course, you don't want to have any examples for Montpelier. You have to find them somewhere else. But, you know, just to... because I think people... if people could visualize what the problems are, it's much, much easier to see. Oh, yeah, that would be a better way to do it. I could use wood there instead of vinyl. We certainly have some good examples. I mean, the ones that we saw before. Yeah. Was that one from? It's not stowed. I like Shelbert. That's a really good... What's it? I think that's really good. They tell you why this would sort of mess things up and you know, look what's on there. I read the thing when one of the men looked at the town and just... It's really an extraordinary environment. An inviting environment. That project. Well, thank you for attending this meeting. I'm sorry to... and Barb is developing. They seem very willing for us to continue to participate with them. That's good as they're going through this. Maybe Kim and I can trade off when we're going to meetings. Yeah. Well, I think they'll come up with an expert. I didn't hear anybody talking about it. They're very creative to begin with. But Kim is really brilliant. Okay. I don't think they'll know what historic preservation is. There are questions on this. We were going to be there on Wednesday. We're not great. Not this Wednesday, no. Okay. The 9th. May 9th. May 9th is what we're trying to do. May 9th is what we're trying to do. I think we talked about this at the last meeting. I got an email inviting me to come and just introduce myself to the city council and say what we're up to on May 9th. And anyone else who wants to attend is welcome to come. I look forward to hearing what it is we're up to. So it wasn't specifically to get directions from them regarding my understanding was it was just so that the new city councillors can get a sense of what are all the committees that are happening and what they're working on and who the chairs are. We do have that turn over. Is that accurate? Yeah, there's going to be that. The planning commission is going to be presenting what we're up to and making some recommendations. So one of which would be what do you want the planning commission and staff to be working on and our recommendation is that we should we're recommended working on the city plan and we're going to kick off and do it this way and we're just kind of we're already starting it and we're going to give us a thumbs up that says that's a great idea work on that. It's always better if you could say here's our proposal for what to do. We won't be the only ones there you won't be the only ones there planning commission because planning also represents housing so the housing task force is also going to be at the main night and there may be some other groups that may show up. You might be going for the energy committee. Yes we are. The energy committee is is this week this Wednesday but planning is in front of the two more weeks. So there will be some other groups that may be there as well with the housing. I think I mentioned it also to the conservation commission when they were planning to attend community services but the message we're trying to do is to get people to come out. Because the council is going to have to make priorities they've got meetings coming up in a couple of weeks and they have to start to come up with recommended priorities of what they would like to have the city manager working on which then filters down to what I would be working on so when it comes down to they have ten goals and enough staff to do four things you know what ends up being the priority so I've been pitching everybody to say well this would be a good time if you want to be one of those priorities to make sure that you introduce yourself to the city council you guys will always have work just filters through you guys some of the more like path people or trails or parks or or just waiting for a shovel or something I mean most of the big projects are queuing up to go for this year so that's mostly working through public works and less through the planning department at this point all we're doing is kind of some grant assistance and grant management but it looks like the whole TIFF idea has been sewn up to build a parking ground it's multiple pieces that'll be start this week and finish up on the night with the announcement but it's a multiple it has multiple so TIFF is used tax increment financing you collect up the money from the private development and you are going to use it on the public investment or you can flip around we have public investment needs and if we fix these needs then we can allow more economic development so the proposal is to work on a number of things one of which is the parking garage another of which is to do transportation and utility improvements the utility improvements are mostly on Barrie street the transportation improvements are mostly on main street so we've got in order to fix the Barrie and main intersection if we do a roundabout then we have to have more roundabouts if we do lights so it becomes a whole network and we can't develop more housing on Barrie street especially a large project on Barrie street so let's say Sabin's pasture and a couple other projects came in for Barrie street they'll never if they get into act 250 they'll never get through act 250 without so so we can use TIFF to go and take some tax money from those properties to come down and fix this intersection so that's just one example of the does that come to us you approve the district first and none of this will come through the planning commission but you approve the district first through the city council that doesn't approve any projects that just approves the concept of what you're trying to do and lays out some likely projects that are likely public investments that are going to help the public and private and then you go to the Pepsi board and you get approved but you're not that doesn't approve you to build the parking garage for example you would then have to come back to the voters with a bond vote that would say we would like to spend two million dollars on the TIFF project city council that's uh it starts and ends there and Wednesday they're going to approve the idea the district they're not going to approve it this Wednesday they're presenting it this Wednesday and they're going to approve it on the night at least that's the schedule so taking this opportunity I mean here's what I I understand our goals to be right now what we want to focus on in order of priority city plan um with the proposal for that is to have the kickoff meeting and we'll get into that more on item five um two the official map uh and three zoning amendments as needed so as we receive application as the planning department receives application for our various projects and realizes there's quirks in the zoning by-laws that need to be resolved close up as those come and as they make sense um based on input we receive from Mike and our new zoning administrator are there any other design reviews on that oh you're right it is um I see us as more of playing a I guess with the official map and design review we're more of a liaison there than we are in the lead um so who's doing the official map then working on it with I'm working on it with the conservation commission the conservation commission the parts commission and Mike's been working on it with them but I mean I think ultimately they'll provide something that we could weigh in on but I don't think it has to go through us in order to go to city council no the official map would go through you guys first okay okay so and then design review would also go through us right so I don't know if they'll be proposing anything for adoption this year historic preservation okay so so I think those three are probably the three top priorities so the design review um language for the zoning so the priorities for 2018 city plan official map and zoning amendments is needed potentially for 2019 it would be city plan design review language zoning amendments is needed I'm hoping we get the official map done this year but we also talked about doing that in conjunction with the city plan so I think we'll have a better idea about when it makes sense to propose that as we get further down the road in the city plan yeah now I have a little bit of an update when we get to okay so let's move on so that was item three item four general business comments from the public about something not on the agenda there's no members in the public present so we'll move forward to item five which is the city plan update discussion there was a variety of things that we kind of thought about doing I don't know it might keep this on the agenda so we've got something specific in mind I have some other things to think about too but why don't you start so the update I have on that was that even though I didn't meet with you guys two weeks ago I did a couple of meetings one was to the housing task force and one was to the conservation commission and they had a couple of members of the parks commission who were there so starting with that meeting the conservation commission meeting I presented some of the official maps that I had collected up from around other towns and it was kind of timely because over the past month or two there has been a lot of discussion on the list serves that I'm on about official maps some other communities have been considering it and wondering how it has been for work didn't work for others so we had a good conversation about what they wanted on the map itself what do the colors mean we had that green print map and I was like you're talking about this so let's put some words down of what does this corridor mean this corridor is an area where we don't need the entire 100 foot corridor we want a path somewhere in this 100 foot corridor so we just need a 20 foot easement what are you looking for so if they could and this is what's on the parks and conservation commission to do this is that they're going to put that together this pink blob here is showing where we would want a park this is 300 acres in size but we really only need 50 acres but we need 50 acres that's somewhat usable somewhere in this blob and that gives us the opportunity not to necessarily specifically say this is exactly where we're going to have a park but we want a park somewhere in here and then if a property comes up where there's a development in that area the city would have the right of first refusal and could decide whether this is the area that they wanted to business but they're supposed to kind of go through and refine the map and work on it a little bit to kind of identify what it is they're asking for do they want it in feed do they want a third color because they had one that was trails there's going to probably be easements if you're looking for a second color that was on that map was for park land we're like okay well park land you probably want to own in feed so that would be a different one and then there was a discussion of whether they wanted to also identify other environmental park land so you know this preservation pieces if we had a wetland this would we want to buy that it's not really park land from the standpoint that we wanted it was visiting it but it also really isn't developable and we would be disappointed to see this area develop so they're supposed to look and see whether they wanted a third piece in there that was a vernal pool idea basically yeah so they're going to look at some ideas and come up with an identification so that way we can start to work on I can start to work on crafting this piece which is okay now that I understand what this map means we would adopt it as an official map but what surprised me was that when I did the homework on other official maps most other or every other community none of them have any ordinance that is this that goes along with the official map they just adopt the map and they follow state law on enforcement so we felt a prudent way to kind of manage this especially if we have some of these that are easements and some of these we really should have a process where if somebody comes in with an application we can say well here's our ordinance our official map ordinance that goes along with the official map and if maybe it's just two or three pages or two pages it really kind of lays out here's the process if you come in we're going to we automatically get this here and it's going to have this who do we send it to the first zoning application comes in do we send it to the conservation commission for comment or do we not the parks commission for comment it's probably going to help with the adoption process of the official map because I can imagine that if I see that there's a park right on my property I might not know what that means and start to worry so having something written of what that process would be and when it would get triggered I think that's key too it's going to be really how boy I like that idea so my job while they're working on that my job is going to be just to start to work to kind of create this ordinance that would kind of go along with the process and certainly if you know of anyone who actually has an ordinance they're going to steal from it I don't know official map ordinance that kind of a process that kind of goes along with it but certainly not south Burlington Heimberg, Milton I haven't read the statute but that must have some pretty good guidance it's much more of a of a process but it doesn't go through and say for example somebody comes in in the zoning permit somebody comes in and decides to build a house we've identified a park on the top of savings pasture somebody comes in puts in a permit I want to build a house on the top of savings pasture the official map has been triggered there's a process relatively short that's in the statute that you would follow but you could extrapolate on that to go through and say okay well what do what does the zoning administrator do when that application comes in do we forward it to the parks commission for their input do we what does a lot of cases a lot of the other ordinances were much more the official maps are much more specific because the official maps are supposed to be about roads and utilities and sewer and water and if you build a house where we want to build a road then we're going to take it and we know exactly where that road is going to go in this case they're kind of laying out this is where we would like to trail and it's 100 foot wide corridor it might be over here it might be over here we only want a 20 foot easement somewhere in this 100 feet and so when it kind of comes into that it kind of ends up with a slightly different I don't know I think you need to have a process and maybe we work with our attorney and our attorney feels it's we're better off not constraining ourselves with that process but it just seems like it seems to me I would I would want to as a zoning administrator be going back to statute just going saying I guess I just pump this up the city council and the whole point of the official map is to take the place of the necessity in a condemnation 100 foot I think is to me an almost opposition to that it's one thing to say okay 20 feet snake wonders down here and that's it but once you once you open it up you're deciding what pieces of this car are going to be then you have a committee making a decision that it's essentially a taking just about a taking isn't the structure you're talking about the committee saying anywhere within this band we would want it and you as a property owner can decide it would be more of a they would want to be able to try to negotiate how that would go rather than saying this is specifically because I think they're trying to avoid some of the upfront time and expense that it would cost to very specifically map every single the location of every single trail and every single 20 foot wide path and sometimes it can be pushed left or right so getting to what you were saying Ken it sounds like only actions that would make say the trail impossible to go through that area would really trigger as long as you could still do the trail then activity in the area shouldn't have to only trigger because it wouldn't the trail still possible is that kind of what you're getting at? No I think my problem is in effect the official map is the first step in combination it says we as a city declare we need this for the public but so what I was getting at was that need wouldn't be there unless they cut the trail off basically and that would trigger a need to do something within To me if you're going to have a trail it's got to have a beginning and an end over private property I foresee difficulties in allowing a committee to massage what we actually think that's a you then have to go to the city council and say we agree with you we disagree with you I can see like I said my push so the question that will come up for them is to come up with their first map that will have to come through this committee when we get it and we'll put together an ordinance that will help at least lay out the process so those are kind of the tasks that were laid out in that meeting was that they're going to work on their piece to kind of make sure they they can clearly identify this is what we want on this parks this is what we want on this and this is one request that maybe I should make to city council I don't know whether I should do it at the main night meeting or another time but I think it would help us in our discussion of the official map once it comes to us we also had the legal opinion at the same time so that we can have actual advice as we're waiting through these challenges I don't think I'm going to be able to develop the ordinance part without the legal input okay so it should be happening yeah that will happen and then I think we may what we didn't do too much with the zoning but we may do for the other one is just to bring in kind of sit down with us and go over it at least in one meeting to kind of lay out the range of options that we have there's certain things we have to do but then there's certain amount of flexibility I think we have I think it's there aren't a lot of official maps out there so we're and they don't get tested very often a number of people I think Heinzburg has said they've liked it Alex likes it a lot they put it out there for their parks and their roads and the developers basically you would hope they would do the developer looks at the map and says okay I have to build the road so I'm going to build the road where the city has identified it on the official map rather than try to fight the official map you know oh I've got some recreation land that's identified as part of my well I would use that as my open space and the city will buy my open space and add it to the park so he's had he hasn't had to implement it because it's always kind of the developers have looked at the official map and followed it other places have voted somebody I guess in South Burlington had proposed to put a house where there was supposed to be a park and it went up the city council the city council was like we're okay we'll just find another park somewhere else and not actually follow through on the official map and that's allowed as well you know it has different things and so we're hoping I think with the parks commission you know sometimes you just put something on the ground and you hope that this will help developers who want to maybe do the right thing to know communities wishes are and maybe they will work to make some things happen we really need a performance though isn't it maybe just more of a policy like an administrative policy yeah I mean I'll look at to see if that's what it needs to be an ordinance as a part of it or a policy or something something less than written ordinance part do you imagine this will take 30, 50 years managing another ordinance it's just another thing to manage I think about this problem the condemnation as we know it is always a negotiation coming straight bridge how much what we're going to do and how we're going to accommodate the condemnation triggers but it takes place at the city council level sometimes like go ahead I think what we've seen in a lot of these other places is basically you're signaling like here's the path of least resistance and it happens when development happens and it's really not a big council you know probably the five minute item on their agenda where they sign to accept something as part of the subdivision because of the subdivision are you know they sign this part over to the city it's not always like that I'm just having a hard time figuring out where that trail is going to go legal issues about it well it seems like there's still some work to be done so you mentioned you also met with the housing task force yes so housing task force I met with last week so they I gave them I was actually meeting with them intentionally about our city plan update because initially we were going to start off with just doing the housing plan first and were they interested in coming and meeting with the planning commission to have a joint meeting and so that was the agenda item was for me to meet and talk about that in between we all met and decided we were going to have this all committees meeting and they really like that they think that's a great idea because they think it's going to be really effective to sit down because this plan has so many places where there's overlap you know is energy or transportation or community services responsible for public transportation economic development and natural resources there's going to be some conflicting areas housing and conservation they're just different ones that there's potential places where one's goals may not line up perfectly with another and that's where planning commission you guys are going to have to play referee and make a decision of what you know or where are we going to put something where do we put weatherizing houses is that a housing issue or is that a some of them are going to be obvious and we're going to know where to put them what is the function of the housing task force housing task force is they're a quasi committee they are a committee but they're actually more of an ad hoc group nobody's actually appointed to the board but they are members of Montpelier housing authority downstream I think BCIL was on their center for independent living was there for a while but they're more in the ADA now Jack works for legal aid so he's trying to represent some of the issues and concerns of tenants is he still serving on the task force? he is he was the chair he stepped down from being chair and because he's now a counselor so Jack is still on the committee Mary Hoopers on the committee so there's just a number of people who have always had a deep interest in housing and affordable housing and one of the barriers so they work a lot with the housing trust fund and coming up with recommendations and kind of how to advance that difference there are really a really good group I think like any of the committees that we have there are some folks from the state housing Jen Hollers on there and she was ACCB part in determining doesn't the city allocate a housing fund as part of your budget? yes yes there is a housing there is a housing trust fund and there is a separate housing trust fund committee only meets about once a year to review housing trust fund applications so that's one of the comments that is coming up that we're thinking we'll just recommend merging those two maybe appointing a few members who would be voting members of the trust fund fiduciary we've got a couple of we've got some recommendations on that committee but the initial one was you know we wanted to invite them and have them because they were the farthest along on their chapter and their element but they really think this is a great idea so they wanted to and you guys on what I said doing your own ideas I think it was the energy committee's idea we were pushing it well you guys get whoever it is can pat themselves on the back because the housing committee really liked that idea so so that was they're looking forward to hearing when that comes out I told them probably we're looking at probably some time in June yeah so the only piece is do we need to meet with the IT specialist before we schedule that meeting I mean that's the only hang up I see other than the whole scheduling of it I don't think we need IT necessarily for the meeting but we need that to start it'd be good to have him have that set up to start going forward I guess it depends I think we just have to start laying out what we want to present what we want to get back I think we just need to start having some big picture discussions of what we want to what are the outcomes that we want to get out of this initial kickoff meeting because I think we can certainly go through and lay out a bunch of the pieces but do we want to have those Google Drive pieces set up ready to go at that meeting start using them at that time or well sending out a letter to all of the committee it would be a great opportunity to explain how that could work but we could send a follow up letter if we needed to I'm just thinking we could put everything in one letter just having the committees that would be ideal but I don't want to hold up the meeting just because of that she's interested in meetings yeah I think if we could do it it would be great so maybe you can see if Seth who comes to our next meeting and in the meantime I could put together a letter that everybody could take a look at and comment on at that meeting at our next meeting and then we would plug in whatever the info is that we decided that Seth is not talking to Seth it sounds like a good plan the other question I have is I don't, I've been thinking about what kind of venue we would want to hold this I do we have any budget for renting space I assume we don't is that a good assumption probably it's probably a good assumption but it also I think would depend on what costs we are looking at I don't know usually pretty good about like communities really but that's all kind of if to drive there right I'm sure thinking of more like a pancake or something kind of downtown where it's not city hall but something where folks wanted to stay and socialize after the presentations are we going to how big a group are we talking to eat something like the capital Plaza conference room that would be much more expensive that's where the price comes in when you start getting into those spaces or we could get lost nations upstairs oh upstairs, yeah I think you can reserve downstairs and make it as a costume you just kind of have to have enough people buying drinks to make it worth a while we have what 45 committees yeah how many people how many committees are there there are almost 20 committees if you get down to details of all of those we wouldn't need input from all of them I think we would need to do 12 different sections as we mentioned there's a lot of people who sit on multiple so you can get 12 where I can get everybody this idea the downstairs the only problem is we wouldn't have a visual aid aspect to it but maybe that would help maybe that's fine what do you suggest to the power power 5 minute presentation what about the pavilion there's the pavilion I'll find out we want something that's like a conference room where we're facing their right to be kind of bringing this up that's why I was sort of if you sit downstairs at NACI I'm kind of imagining everybody around the room the pavilion is a beautiful place where they just don't see how you do it it was the it was the auditorium so I was thinking you know maybe not something that was strictly a presentation oh that's true my only concern my only concern there is that it wouldn't foster communication the same way that a smaller room would right and we may if we were looking we may go and ask somebody to send one or two people rather than inviting an entire committee so if we had 10 committee chairs that we invited we might end up with yep but we're not inviting all 14 members of the publishing committee although they're welcome I want everyone to be welcome because it is an opportunity it just defines the space if we're going to invite everybody then we have to have a space that can accommodate maybe we should have it here we can have it at the Lost Nation Lobby area that's a fairly large area when you set it up not theater style but you have to be wary of their rehearsal schedule and like sometimes stuff can be just set up so that it's you have to work around it they've got a schedule a down schedule that comes up or one of their dark nights just figure it out well I know there was there were sometimes when I was in Barry that the opera house just had this between this month and this month they were really busy generally over alright well I'll reach out to Lost Nation about that and then that sounds like the best option we have and then we could also reserve maybe reserve the necky downstairs for anyone who wanted to lose the over after but we can probably get some kind of if we can do that, that would be better I mean the Lost Nation does it for their the Lost Nation charges they can't charge us they can't charge the city we are a city so they can't charge us it's just scheduling that becomes the issue some place where we can sneak in I hate to have the big huge block of rehearsals and performance off because that would be most of June in the heart of they have nights that they're not I was hoping we had a fifth week that they wouldn't have a rehearsal a fifth week because nobody will have anything but there are only four weeks well my job for the next meeting will be to have some dates and I'll try to have Seth come in and I'll get him on the agenda to come in and chat with you about what you want so think about Seth to try to help set up because he's the IT guy so that means John, you think well, there's also just the general thing of you take this type of input I can try to swing by make the most of this time here Will you start drafting the letter to the committees? I'm sorry, did you say that? I'll try to have some dates for the venue for the next meeting and a draft of the the letter announcing the meeting yeah and then I'll send that around for comments we can discuss it on the next meeting maybe Kirby, you're in court on it before I should share with you my sleep deprivation doesn't we can come out of the separation yes your sleep deprived because I'm I forgot yeah okay anything else on the city plan? no item 6, consider meeting minutes from March 26 second any discussion? no? all those in favor of approving the minutes yes last item on the agenda is adjournment do I have a motion? second non-debatable motion all those who accept the motion for adjournment okay, we are adjourned


E01 is given that is 0.15 mole and this E01 is minus 0.15 mole, this is what we asked. Now this Cu2 plus the second reaction gives Cu and E02 is 0.34 mole. So we calculate what minus N1F even though and for this it will be minus N2F E02. In the net reaction plus one electron gives Cu. So delta G3 will be minus N3 0. Since we have added these two equations for this we can write delta G0 3 should be equals to delta G1 0 plus delta minus N3. F E3 0 is equals to minus N1F even 0 plus minus N2F G2 0. F gets cancelled, the negative sign will get also cancelled and E3 0 is equals to what? N1 value is what? N1 is 1 right? So 1 into even 0 is minus 0.15 plus N2 value is 2 and into 0 is 0.34 divided by N3 value is what? 0.5, always remember delta G you have to add a subtract, E cannot add a subtract. Next question we write on calculate the potential of the cell reaction and the cell notation is given that is CR to CR3 plus 0.1 mole that F E2 plus 0.011 mole to F E. You have to find out E cell for this. The data given E0 for CR3 plus to CR is minus 0.74 mole and E0 of F E2 plus to F E minus 0.44 EF of the cell reaction. Write down the reaction of anode, then write down the reaction of anode, then you find out the complete cell reaction and apply another situation. Ok, that is all this one. Ok, if the reaction reaction is what? The first reaction is CR3 plus 3 electron gives CR. And the second reaction is F E2 plus 2 electron gives, IL is what? IL is cathode, IL is cathode so it will get reduced, right? This is reduction, this is also reduction, both are reduction potential. To write down the reaction, one you have to convert in oxidation. Oxidation takes place at chromium. This we have to write down the oxidation reaction. Oxidation reaction is what? Chromium gives CR3 plus 3 electron. So its E0 value is what? E0 of anode it is. That will be 0.74 mole minus becomes plus. Why IL? I write some oxidation reaction here because this is anode, right? This must be oxidation, this must be reduction. This is reduction reaction and this is oxidation reaction. And this is given E0 of cathode is what? Minus 0.444. When you add these two, you get net reaction and emf of the cell E0 of the cell is what? E cathode minus E anode. E cathode minus E anode. E cathode is minus 0.44 minus E anode that is the reduction potential of anode. Reduction potential is minus 0.774, 1.74. E0 of the cell is 0.3. Both are reduction potential. So I have taken the reduction potential value of this minus 0.7. Now when you add these two, the electron will get cancelled. So we have to multiply this by 2 and this by 3. So total number of electron exchange is what? 6. So n value is? 6. And the reaction is 2CR plus 3FE2 plus, this is solid, aqueous. Gives 2CR3 plus aqueous plus 3FE2. Solid we don't write in concentration term, right? We write only aqueous part. So we write D cell is equal to E0 cell minus 0.059156, concentration of product by reaction. The concentration of product? CR3 plus 1FE2. Right? But here one thing you have to keep in mind, the coefficient is 2 and 3. So it's coefficient you have to write here, 2 and 3. It's like Q or, so in Q we'll write the coefficient in the power of the concentration of pressure term, right? You must take care of this thing, whatever the coefficient we have here, let me go into the power here. Understood this? Yes or no? Yes. But all E0 cell we have that is 0.30 minus, see here in the denominator we have 6. So 0.0591 we can consider this as 0.06 also to make the calculation easy. 0.059 what we can write? 0.0656 approximately. Log of, what is the concentration of CR3 plus? CR3 plus concentration is 0.1. So 0.1 is square divided by 0.01, so this becomes 0.30 minus 0.01 log of, this is 10 to the power minus 2 divided by 10 to the power minus 6. So this becomes what? 0.30 minus 0.01 into 4, right? Now it is 0.1. What? Understood this? Initially when you are solving the question, try to write down the reaction. Initially 5-10 problems you write down the reaction to keep in mind. So I suggest you write down the, then you apply last equation for initial 5-10 questions. After that you can do it easily then. The next question you write down. The solution of C us of 4 in which the solution of C us of 4 in which copper rod is placed in a solution which is diluted to 10 times. Find out the reduction electrode potential. Reduction electrode potential. No, it's not given. It's not given. But how can you know C us of 2 plus C is 0.3? That's not required, the value is not given. You can use this, but this is not required, without this also you can do. Concentration initially. And the final concentration you have. The final is 1 by 10 of the initial. Concentration is diluted to 10 times. This is actually a half cell reaction. Like I said, last equation you can apply in half cell reaction as well as complete cell reaction. So half cell reaction you write down copper, C 2 plus, the sweet electron you see. Apply last equation into that. Write down the expression. You'll get C you concentration in the last equation expression. That is first case when C you concentration is suppose X. In the second case X becomes what? 0.1 into X. 0.1 into X. That's what you have to put and subtract both the equation you will get. That's why E naught value will get cancelled when you subtract. That's why it is not given. You write down first the equation you understand what you have. Sir, what is 0.09? 0.29? Yeah. 0.03 minus 0.03. Minus 0.03. Sir, what should we find? What should we find? What we have to find? I know the negation. E cell you have to find. Sir, we can approximate it to 0.06. Calculation is easy. You can use 0.06. You can use 0.03. You can use 0.06. Sir, it's not a problem. I mean, that is quite funny. We think it's wrong. What is the answer? 0.31 0.3 0.03 Minus of 0.03 Yeah. Thank you.


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Welcome to the conversation here inside theCUBE. We're in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier, part of our ongoing cloud, conquering the cloud coverage. And of course, we have the RSA conference happening in San Francisco and we'll be covering it wall to wall. Our next guest to get a reaction to what's happening in the cloud is Vikas Anon, who's the Vice President of Product Management at Oracle. And also the cloud side. So really not on the market side, really on the development side. Yes, welcome to theCUBE conversation. Thank you, John. I'm really excited to be here. We've been following that. We've, this is our eighth season with theCUBE, so you know we've been at every Oracle open world for eight. This will be our eighth year coming up. It's been interesting to watch the transformation of Oracle, it's almost that Larry Ellison moment where he knew the cloud was there that next year came out. It was all about cloud. And since then it's been absolutely pretty much all cloud. This year is pretty obvious that it's end to end cloud on-prem and public cloud, all Oracle. But yet there's also new non-Oracle opportunities you guys are getting called cloud native. Where is the product development areas on? Because right now it's certainly in the backdrop with security and RSA going on. You're seeing the surface area for vectors, attacks that are, there's no more perimeter. You have cloud now, breaks that perimeter of concept. What are you guys working on? What's the top things? John, that's actually a great segue into the area that I operate in, right? Like you just said, cloud is spanning the hybrid, right? You're basically running SaaS applications for your business and you obviously have to go and communicate back with on-premise applications as well as integrate with an ecosystem of devices and social and other things, right? So the cloud is spanning, the vector is spanned from the public applications with SaaS to cloud native applications that people use to build engagement models with microservices. And of course, all of this needs to go back to something which you might be already running as a customer on-premise as a hybrid. So I run product management at Oracle for one of the hottest areas, which is the integration space, right? I own integration, process, and API management from a product portfolio perspective. And we have a significant investment in this area. Given that Oracle is one of the largest SaaS companies out there, integration is key to enable these applications to be able to deliver the value to our customers. And we are focused on three things. To simplify the hard, which is integration is a hard problem. So do what we can to simplify that for our customers so that they can use that for innovation and accelerate the value to the business. Oracle, certainly you guys have certainly a great database position. I've always said it's the mother of all lock-ins and I think that's really with the opportunity. But database isn't just Oracle, now you have other databases. So integration I can see is a big part of kind of Oracle moving out of your core swim lane into database areas that are not necessarily Oracle or Oracle other databases. So the question is, the DevOps movement has kind of proven that it's probably easier to sling APIs around than build full functional stacks. So the integration becomes really more of a competitive opportunity for folks who are in IT and or developers because if you can have a core software stack, then the advantage is not to build it at scale because scale is the real challenge, it's the integration and slinging APIs around. So, okay, how do you make that into reality? Okay, because that conceptually people get that is leverage day with APIs and connecting the data from different data sources, certainly need system of record, system of engagement, system of AI or cognitive or whatever people call it. But at the end of the day, this is an architectural concept. So people in systems management or any kind of operating system background can get this. How do you deploy it for the common IT enterprise? So, you know, from what we've tried to do for our customers is really, first of all, when you look at the area of integration, integration spans APIs, integration spans the classical integration needs of business which used to be files or real-time integration. And of course, this ecosystem includes it's a pretty complex world out there, right? There are 2,300 plus SaaS applications. A lot of them are non-oracle. So it's also about interoperating with other SaaS products. Other APIs, the same way as we do for Oracle. So what we've done for our customers is really deliver the service with a SaaS-like experience where Oracle manages it. So we manage the DevOps of delivering the service as a SaaS-like experience. We patch it for our customers. Customers consume it to build integrations. And customers can discover APIs for Oracle applications through our API catalog as well as the integration portfolio. Now, tying it back to third-party, of course, you need rich connectivity. So we have really rich cloud adapters to talk to Salesforce, NetSuite, applications which really are in ERP space or CRM space, some of them Oracle and some of them non-Oracle, right? So we have that as a part of our portfolio. API, APIs is really interesting because a lot of times, APIs were built bottom-up which meant that they were not designed for the experience that you were looking to deliver. And people today are continually using APIs for four things, one of four things, right? Either to create a net new business model, so net new revenue opportunity, for example, delivering a new mobile application which exposes your IP, right? Number two is to deliver more customer satisfaction and experience as an engagement. Number three is for operational efficiencies. Number four is to communicate with the partner ecosystem. So when you look at APIs, the proliferation is out there, a lot of APIs. It's manifested into this net new requirement of API management, but more importantly, to design APIs right, the API-first strategy which is really key to the success of an API management strategy. So the organic growth of APIs really points to the value of APIs as you point out, but the diverse use cases that have been developing kind of a situational. So the management of APIs has been kind of situational. Absolutely. So now as you move beyond that, where's that new hardening? I mean, is there any best practices that you see for folks that say, hey, you know what? Okay, we've done some bottoms-up APIs. It's been great efficiency. We've gotten more from less, more functionality, more business model, more integration. Okay, but bottom-wise, the core of my strategy is how we're going to share data. Now you're talking about connectors being key, you know, passing of parameters, between multiple systems that maybe, certainly with an Oracle, I can see you guys doing well there, but not on Oracle. Yes. How does that play out? So there are, again, you bring a great point again. I mean, the APIs with bottom-up always helped with the reuse of the API, but it was not always a business benefit. It might have been an IT benefit, right? So the top-down approach is becoming more prominent. And this is where we've done a very interesting acquisition. We've acquired a startup in this space, company called Aperee, aperee.io, which is available for developers for free. You know, you can log in and get an account there, which really- This one was announced in January that you guys are now closing. Absolutely. Okay. And this is really focused on the concept of API design and governance to manage the API proliferation and sprawl that you have within the enterprise, right?  The part which is missed out is design and governance.  And like open source always gets better over time. As we all know, the security holes are potentially a red blind spot for IT, right? So, or any enterprise. So the auditing, there's that governance thing. Is that what we're, you're referring to more of the stability side of it? So it's basically, you know, when you look at, let's take an example. You design a car first, right? You don't design a car just because you like a tire or you like an engine, right? It's primarily, you get the design first right and then you put the infrastructure in place. So similarly with the APIs, it's becoming more like you get the right API design and definition. You quickly prototype, right? Just like a car, you design your prototype, right? You quickly prototype the API. You run mock testing and see the end results before you get into the implementation, which really changes the game plan of how you deal with APIs going forward. And that's something which we bridge in with the API acquisition into the Oracle API management strategy. So if a customer asked you, let's just say that, I asked Ms. Avery this on theCUBE as well and he had a great answer. But I want to kind of refresh it now as we get more, as the evolution of the industry continues to go at a rapid pace. Our only security is a big one. Mark, already we talked about encryption and a big way, certainly John Fowler's encryption. The chip thing is certainly might be a really big deal too. But if a customer asked you, because tell me about like what's the core guiding principle that you guys are taking at Oracle? Because I need to cross to the bridge, cross that bridge to the cloud and I don't want anything to break. But yet I want the headroom of all this new functionality. What does Oracle do? What is the core tenants of your design and your product development? How would you respond to that? You know, from our strategy perspectives and since I'm, you know, we're talking about API manager, let me just focus on this and apply the Oracle tenants here, right? Obviously number one is to deliver a secure environment for customers to be managed, to be able to manage and expose their APIs, whether they run it on the Oracle cloud or on their in their data center. So security is a very important tenant over there. The ability to use the cloud for productivity and innovation with APIs. So high productivity is a part of the tenant that we are offering as a part of our cloud services. And then of course hybrid. So you should be able to run your APIs, whether it's an Oracle cloud, whether it's on premise or anywhere else. So with our API strategy as an example, we're really focused on delivering a true hybrid experience. It doesn't matter where your gateways are, whether it's on premise, on Oracle cloud or third party cloud, you're able to manage it seamlessly from the Oracle cloud environment and able to expose it in a secure way to your end consumers as well as your partners. I asked Mark, heard this question. I'll ask you, and I know he's the CEO, so he had a good answer. He can see, he could answer it. But this comes up a lot and you guys have the ability to run Oracle on Amazon. Andy Jassy has been very vocal recently. He was in on Geekwire, saw that last week, criticizing Oracle, kind of calling Oracle the old way, the old guard. He used the word old guard. How do you respond to that?  As Amazon's, you know, got the lead right now on the public cloud. But your version of public cloud is near, maybe not be different, but how do you answer, how do you answer that charge at Oracle's the old guard? You know, it's interesting. You should have been at the developer week conference that we presented at yesterday. You know, me and I met and a few of my colleagues from Oracle product management were out there on stage. We would have loved it. We didn't get an invite. We'd make sure we're invited. We would have loved to have been there. We presented this whole story board where we actually demoed live a use case where you would be able to buy tickets to a warrior game through a chatbot. And it was built upon a modern IT architecture on the Oracle stack. Right from API design to the backend microservice running on cloud containers where developers have a choice to bring their own favorite tools. Maven, you know, Git, Docker images with the container class. So this is your integration story. This is back to your... With microservices, which is basically app development. And then a bot, which was exposing it for the consumer experience. So the modern tools that the developers of today are looking for with APIs, with microservices, with artificial intelligence, right? Are enabled and available on the cloud in a modern infrastructure enabled... So this is the new development phenomenon. I've been saying this for years. I'm an OS guy with my computer science degrees and operating systems as well as databases. But, I mean, back then databases weren't really that big of a deal. But yeah, but now they are. So like it thought to be a database guy, but it's a composable, it's a system integration kind of concept. If you think about the old system integration world that Oracle really rode the back on the growth on was the big six accounting firms and the big global integrators. Now that's the developer. The single developer can simply integrate and compose, I won't say object oriented, but that kind of concept of saying, hey, I'm going to reuse this. And they need some solid stability. So I think the game is changing. And I think Amazon certainly has shown a great lead and we're big fans of what they're doing. But as the enterprise gets more complex, the question that we're looking at is, what does the new modern developer look like in a global operating environment called the internet? Your thoughts, final question, what's that? Do you agree with that premise that it's a composable world out there and that this is a design reinvention of what design architecture looks like and the building blocks are going to be recast in different ways? Do you believe that or give any opinion? I absolutely believe in that. I think the essence of today's app development is speed. Speed to build, speed to deploy, speed to continuously integrate, speed to value to business. And for that, the building blocks really have evolved to be microservices, APIs, bots, and of course integration kind of binds all of this together. Sounds like an operating system to me. It sounds like, yeah, it does. It is, the role of the integrator is right, high up there to bind all these modern architecture components together, but it is truly a composable framework of applications and productivity is key in each of these areas. We're looking forward to hearing more about the, when you close this acquisition, more on the integration. And next time you guys have a development week or with Amit and the team, let us know. We'd be happy to come down and at least get some footage. Really, really important here. You guys are doing a lot of work. People see Oracle. They know Oracle. And you guys got a lot of development going. It's important that we keep track of that. Thanks for sharing in this CUBE conversation. Thanks. Thank you for having us. I'm John Furrier, Live at Silicon Valley. This is for RSA this week. We're here at the CUBE conversation with Oracle. We'll be right back with more. Thanks for watching.