The late Murray Rothbard is, in many ways, the godfather of the modern libertarian movement, starting with the publication of his great tract, Man, Economy and State, back in 1962. And of course Rothbard played an instrumental role in helping Lou Rockwell get the Mises Institute off the ground. So to honor Murray, we're holding an event at the upcoming Students for Liberty conference in Washington, D.C., and the event's called Why Rothbard Matters. It'll be a cocktail reception on the evening of Saturday, February 27th. And in the meantime, this weekend's show features a great panel discussion about Murray, not just the economist and the intellectual scholar, but also Murray the man. The panel features our own David Gordon, Walter Block and Joe Salerno, all three of whom worked with Murray and knew him personally for many, many years prior to his death in the early 1990s.  Stay tuned for a great panel discussion on Murray Rothbard. I think when you met Murray Rothbard, the first thing would impress people was that he knew everything. The way he was able to know everything was he had an amazing ability to read very fast and absorb all the material. In that way, he was like his teacher, Joseph Dorfman, the one who got his PhD with at Columbia. I often used to go to bookstores with him. One we like in Manhattan where the Strand bookstore was his favorite. And there were ones in the Bay Area that he liked to go to. And he would go into the bookstore and he could go down the shelves and he would read every book and he would be able to say what was in this one, what was in that one. He would do no matter what the subject. He had an amazing range of reference. He would just know everything. I'll give you a few illustrations. Some of you may know that there was a libertarian philosopher, a very famous one, Robert Nozick, that he didn't get along with all that well. The reason they initially didn't get along very well was that when Nozick met Rothbard, they had a big argument about whether you could measure utility. And Nozick took the point of view that you couldn't. Rothbard didn't. And if you look, Rothbard knew all the philosophical literature on this topic, the economics, for example, he not only knew Carl Hempel's work, but there was an unpublished part of the Hempel's book that he was able to refer to. So this gave him, it was very hard to ask him something that he didn't know. I remember once I like history trivia questions, I was telling Murray that I'd had a conversation with Mel Bradford, who was an outstanding scholar that we both knew. And I was able to, Bradford really knew American history extremely well, but I was able to give Bradford a question he didn't know, which was what was Rutherford Hayes' middle name. So I was telling Murray about that, and he said, eh, it was birchard, of course. He didn't know just economics and philosophy and political theory, but he was very interested in art history. His specialty was German Baroque churches, and turned out he'd been friends. So in the 1940s, Leo Steinberg, who became one of the great art historians, a specialist in the Renaissance, he was very, very much interested in Leo Steinberg's work on art history. So many things that Murray didn't publish about, he knew a lot about, if you just read his published works, you just get a small idea of the range of his knowledge. Another example comes to mind. In 1980, there was a conference at the Albany held in honor of Thomas Saas. So Murray gave a paper on psycho history, which was the use of psychoanalysis in trying to understand history. Murray was very critical of it. And he was able to absorb all the literature on psychoanalysis. He knew all the books critical of Freud. He had a complete bibliography of that. So again, any topic you were to ask him, he would know an enormous amount about. Now, in addition to his wide range of knowledge, he had a tremendous analytical mind. He gave him an argument. He would see instantly what was wrong with it, what were the flaws in it. He would know all sorts of references that could be cited about it. I can't really think of anyone that I've met who could really match him in the quickness and sharpness of his intellect. And he certainly of the people I've met, he's the one who influenced me the most. He and his wonderful wife, Joey, were very kind to me. I'll never forget what they did for me. I should tell you also that Murray was interested not only in information scholarship. He had a very keen interest in people. For example, at the Mises University programs that we had when he was here and was teaching them, he would be very interested in what all the students were doing. I remember on one occasion I was sitting with him at that time and we had them at Stanford. Everyone would go to all the lectures and I was sitting with him and we were making notes. A woman came up who was in the class and said, you seem to be having a good time during the lecture. And what we didn't tell her was we were making lists of which students should be kicked out of the program. Another time Murray was, I was telling Murray about some item about, he was very interested in about concerned of some item, something had been going on. He really wanted to know. I was talking to him about this. It was sort of a very confidential item. It was, as they say, hot gossip item. So a student came up and was sort of standing there while we were talking. Murray looked around and said, can't you see we're busy? He wanted to know what everybody was doing about everything. He really was a wonderful person. I don't think I'd ever meet anyone as great as he was and I'm very fortunate to have known him. The big problem I had with Murray Rothbard was stomach cramps. He was so funny. He just had me in stitches for hours. I almost died of stomach something or other. I mean, he was just hilarious, making fun of everybody and Bill Buckley. He was just, he was horrible. He was the sort of person that my parents warned me against. He would drink alcohol and he would maybe smoke and he would stay up late. He would stay up until five in the morning and all these bad things. It was just very bad.  Where nobody else, everyone else wanted to take over the world. We didn't, so we could sort of play it honestly. One of the most admirable things about Murray is the way he treated Hans Hoppe. Murray grounded libertarianism in natural law, natural rights. And along comes this punk kid, Hans. Murray is 15 years older than me and Hans is maybe 10 years younger. Murray is like 25 years older than Hans and maybe Murray was 50 and Hans was 25. I forget the exact years. And Hans came along with this much better grounding of libertarianism in Murray's view, the argument from argument. And usually what happens is when you're the leader of a group like Murray was and some kid comes along and does you better, what you do is, like if somebody ever tried this online ranch you'd kick them right out. And Murray embraced this. And to me this was sort of an indication of where he was at, where he was coming from. He was after the truth. And if Hans did something better than him he acknowledged that and thanked Hans and supported Hans. When I first started writing my writing career I would keep track of how many words per day I could do. And I would keep track in terms of number of pages and each page had around 300 words. So if I did five pages a day that was pretty good, 1500 words. And most days I wouldn't do five pages but every once in a while I'd do... Sometimes I would do five and sometimes 10, sometimes 15. One day I got up really early at eight in the morning and I worked until two the next morning and I did 23 pages. Which was way more than anything I had ever done. So I'm feeling macho and I'm going to compare myself with a man. I would never compare myself about quality. I mean that's sort of like my chess against Bobby Fisher's chess. I'm just talking about quantity. And I said, well how many pages can you do in a day? And he goes, who keeps track of that? But I pressed. I was sort of pushy and though, well I still am now.  It's true but... So finally Murray says, eight pages an hour. Eight pages an hour? I mean so my whole day of 23 pages was roughly three of his hours. And a good typist who does a hundred words a minute could beat Murray in terms of typing eight pages an hour. But Murray is typing on a typewriter. None of these computer things. And it's just original work. I remember one time Murray was sitting around in the living room and Murray was saying well he has to prepare this paper for two weeks from now. And Joe says, why two weeks from now you have to do it tomorrow? So Murray disappears into his office for an hour or two and he comes out with 12 pages or something like that. It's really... He was just phenomenal. When I... I was born in Brooklyn. I was a track teammate in high school at Bernie Sanders. My views on economics were roughly like his views then. I went through an iron ran phase and then I was a minarchist like iron ran. And then Larry Moss and Jerry Wallows, his roommate, tried to convince me to meet Murray Rothbard and the attraction was that Murray was an anarchist so I didn't want to meet him because he was... An anarchist is crazy. You can't be an anarchist. That's just chaos and weirdness. So I didn't want to meet Murray and finally the two of them ganged up on me and prevailed upon me to meet with Murray and converted me into anarchists in about five minutes. I mean, who's the fastest conversion ever, I think. I'm not sure about that. But he just sort of used my arguments that I got from Henry Haslitz's economics in one lesson about market failure and if you do well, you prosper and if you do badly, you lose out. And he just applied it to the government which I had never thought to do. He just really wanted to be my friend and I could never understand that because I'd read man economy and stayed all during the day and then at night I'd go to his dinner parties and what would a genius like that want to do with me? And the only way I could be worthy of him was to argue with him. So I would just say, well, on page 202, this is a mistake and he was just... I was a real pain in the neck. And he was so nice. He had a picture of Mises on his wall and I said, how could you have a picture of Mises on your wall? Mises wasn't an anarchist. And Murray just sort of smiled at me and said, well, you know, read Mises, you'll find it. He was so gentle and so kind to me and I was such a pain in the neck and I'm glad he was tolerant of me and I try to be tolerant of my students to pass on the baton that Murray passed on to me. I have one distinction that I think no one else on this planet has and that I think I'm the only co-author with Murray on anything. Virtually everything that Murray wrote, he wrote as a single author and one thing he and I are the co-author. This was when I was the associate editor of the Review of Austrian Economics which was the predecessor to the quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics of which Joe Salerno is now editor. I wanted to mention something about Joe. There was this debate. When did the modern Austrian revival start? Was it in 1973 with the South-Western thing? And then Hayek's Nobel Prize around that time. And the South-Western thing, you had three speakers. You had Murray, Izzy Kursner and Ludwig Lachmann and there must have been 40 or so of us, 30. Roger was there, I think Joe was there and 30 other people in their 30s like me. And Joe made the point, well if the revival of modern Austrian economics started in 1973, how did you get 30 young people to attend this thing? And Joe quite clearly says and I think very accurately that it wasn't in 1973 started, it was in 1962 which was the publication of Man, Economy and State. So I think that Murray's, that book was really the key element of the start. I remember one time, I have a friend Michael Adelstein and he is a mentor, Albert Ellis, the therapist is a mentor of my friend Michael Adelstein and me and Michael and Murray went over to Albert Ellis's house and we sung rational songs. It was sort of one of the highlights in my career. I have so many many other stories to tell about Murray. I regard him as a friend. He regarded me as a friend. I'm honored in that. I think he is the second best economist in the history of the universe, second to Mises, and he is certainly the first best libertarian and historian and he, philosopher, I mean, sociologist, he was a real renaissance person. I'm honored to have known Murray, my dear friend. I like Robert Higgs still more in Murray to this day. I came across his name in my junior year in college. I read an article in the New York Times Sunday magazine in which it mentioned, Murray Rothbard was the leader of the libertarian movement in the US and also was an Austrian economist and I had heard the term Austrian economist in my history of economic thought class. It was simply a closed chapter of economic thought. Well, I mentioned this to some of the people I hung around with at the Young Americans for Freedom. There was sort of a libertarian wing and then there were some conservatives and one of the people handed me a little booklet. I was an economic major at the time and it was this booklet, Economic Depressions, They're Cause and Cure but it was in the form of what was called a Bramble Mini Book. It was published by the Constitutional Alliance in Michigan. It was about a third of the sizes. It was literally a mini book. It was very small. So I read it right away and it took about 45 minutes to read and it completely changed my intellectual outlook. I learned more from that book in those 45 minutes and I had in two and a half years of sitting through dull, dreary, dismal courses on macroeconomics and the principles of macroeconomics and fiscal policy. So that was the point which I first became familiar with Murray Rothbard. I then was when I went to graduate school, I was elected Vice President of the New Jersey Libertarian Party and so myself and the president heard that Murray Rothbard was speaking over in New York at a Libertarian conference. So we went to see him and I was very excited. In the meantime, between reading the small mini book and going to the conference, I had read most of his other things. So I had in my mind of course an image of him as a very scholarly and grave presence and when we got there and it was his turn to speak, this short, jolly, actually joyous guy just bound it up onto the stage and says, you know, I just came back from Europe and I'm glad I'm here. He says I can say the word anarchist without being hooded down and so one thing that stood out my memory was that the speaker before Murray Rothbard was Robert Luffave who was a pacifist as well as a libertarian and didn't even believe in self-defense against violence. So at the end of Murray's talk someone raised their hand and said, well, do you accept Luffave's position? And so Murray who always was great at giving you examples instead of answering the question directly, he said, well, if somebody was across the room with a mallet and was coming at me, I plug him. So this guy's great.  So a few months later I decided as the Vice President of the Libertarian Party in New Jersey to have him speak at our our convention and so he was you know, I called him up and I told him that we didn't really have much money and so on and so I was going to try to bargain him down to $100 to come across the river to New Jersey, but he says, I'll do it for $75 and I said, fine, that's great. So he came and some people I think someone, he didn't drive or he only, as he said to me says I formally drive, I have a license but I really, I don't drive. So he came over and so we were talking and I happen to mention that I was a graduate student in economics at Rutgers University and he immediately, we were talking about something else, he immediately stopped and he was overjoyed. So he started looking around for a pen or pencil to write my name down. So I gave him a pen and he wrote my name down. He said, I'll have people get in touch with you on Monday. I don't know what that meant. But sure enough on Monday somebody called me up and said we heard from our Rothbard that you're a good Austrian and that, you know, we want you to join our reading group and I did. I joined the reading group and Walter was in it actually, Richard Fink and a few others. And so I guess that we reports back to Murray by members of the group that I was good. So at some point I was asked to come to Murray's apartment and I, you know, like Roger I was very, very afraid. But you know, I knew he was jolly and pleasant and everything but I didn't know how it would be one-on-one and basically he was vetting me to see how hard core I was. So Richard Fink drove me over there. I went to his apartment and we were in a living room and it was, you know, midnight one o'clock we were still discussing things.  But if they take your property and they're running down the street then you have to resort to the police or, you know, you can't shoot them in the back and say, why not? He said, I never thought of that. So, you know, you're someone I could have a conversation with. So I think I passed the audition with that answer. So that was right before South Royalton. Then I got an invitation to South Royalton and as Walter sort of covered South Royalton, but at the time I saw, you know, Murray Rothbard and Israel Kurser and Ludwig Lachman. I had read their works by then and I, you know, I was very in awe of all of them. But when I thought more about it, I think Lou Rockwell had asked me to give a talk about man economy and state sometime in the 1980s and I thought about it and it struck me that as Walter pointed out in 1974 when we had the conference at South Royalton, which was the first North American Austrian conference, that all these young people showed up, young PhDs, graduate students like myself and so on and I said, well, where do they all come from?  If you hold it, they will come. I mean, it didn't happen like that. It wasn't a big bang. It wasn't a big bang. But then I look back and it wasn't only man economy and state, but Rothbard had written America's Great Depression, what has government done to our money, power and market and For New Liberty, all within this between 1962 and 1973. And to a man or to a man and woman, because there was a, Karen Vaughan was there, a woman, everyone everyone there was really a Rothbardian at that point. He was the main reason behind the revival of Austrian economics. I just want to say a few other things. One of the greatest memories I have of Murray was meeting him at his favorite delicatessen in New York, a Wolf's delicatessen on the corner of 46th Street and Fifth Avenue, a Jewish deli that just has great food and he loved and but during the, so you would meet there maybe a few times a year, three times a year, four times a year. He was teaching at Brooklyn Valley, I was teaching at Pace University in New York City. But in the 1990s he was teaching at Las Vegas, but he come back in the summers and so we were meeting while he was writing a history of economic thought and he, we would talk and exchange pleasantries and then he would tell me about the new things he was finding in the history of economic thought and how this guy was really a bad guy and how this guy who he thought was a bad guy was actually a good guy how this guy had deviations and so on and so forth and it was great and he would go on and then he'd stop and he'd say, I'm so sorry, I haven't let you talk, do you want to talk? He was giving me a private seminar, I mean it was the greatest thing that he would think that I wouldn't want to hear him more, I mean he was really a humble seeker of truth and I really, really appreciated that and I think that really sums him up. He was just a wonderful individual and a great man.


One of the, if not the most nutrient dense foods on the planet, as defined by the food that contains every essential nutrient that you need to survive and live. In other words, you can eat this and be okay and eat nothing else. There's only one type of food that fits this category. It's meat. That's right. This is a fact. Okay. This is unequivocal. Meat contains every single essential nutrient, macronutrient and micronutrient. You need to live for your body to function. It's extremely nutrient dense. Now just eating meat is not ideal, but removing meat from your diet. Whoa, you better make up for that with other foods and typically supplements. So when you hear people say, Hey, get rid of meat. Don't eat meat. You need to do a lot of research and a lot of work to make up for all those nutrients you are missing when you stop eating meat.  I wish they sponsored us. I'd be all for it. Just throw us a steak. Everyone's well. Uh, I'm saying this because I brought this up on an earlier podcast about the UN is making a call to, um, their, you know, their, uh, I don't know, member nations to reduce meat consumption in particular America. Oh, I see. Now here's the problem. Okay. Here's the problem with that in those of us who work in the health space. Understand this. Okay. The average American consumes a majority of their calories from heavily processed foods. This is a fact. In fact, when you go to grocery stores, 73% of the calories in a grocery store, typical grocery store, this is confirmed comes from heavily processed foods. The average American, a majority of their diet is made up of heavily processed foods. When you look at the remaining whole natural foods, which is what we're always advocating for, I don't think anybody will say that a whole natural food diet meat, eggs, dairy, it's meat, eggs and dairy. That's a majority. They're not eating a lot of other whole natural foods. That's pretty much it.  They're going to replace it with more of what they already eat a lot of heavily processed foods. And what that will result in is a sicker population, a fatter population, a population with less muscle, with more anxiety, more depression as a result of nutrient deficiencies, not a great trade. So that's the reason why I'm bringing this up. I agree with you 100% on this. My question I have for you though is do you subscribe to it being this big, you know, conspiracy to make people weaker and sicker? Or do you think it's less nefarious and it's just this is the easiest path to patenting food that we can make more money and control the food industry even more? Like what do you think, and I don't think that's a conspiracy. I think that's like the obvious path to me. I think that there's a few different things at play. There's the climate worshippers where they place the climate, right? Environment climate as their top value. I think to that point, I think those are just useful idiots. I think the agenda is still to make money and it's easy to play to that. But there's more than one thing that's making this happen. So that's one, right? One of them is corning the market. People worship the climate.  Everything bends to this top value. Every other value is less than that. So if people are more sick, people have more anxiety, more depression, less innovative, et cetera, et cetera.  So that is part of it. Then you have a lot of markets that profit off of people who are not quote unquote balanced and healthy. Now, I don't necessarily think they sit down and say, we want people to be sick. But if you look at their products, their products are typically consumed by people who are less healthy or consume more by people who are less healthy. So if you look at someone who's like, I think of someone who's fit and healthy and balanced or less likely to buy all these products, consume as much of the same media, you know, basically do the same kind of stuff. So their incentives are in that direction. And then what you said, I think is a big one, which is you can create lots of patented processed foods, GMO products, very profitable to do so. And if we need to sell it under the guise of saves, this is a value. It's great for everybody. It's good for the earth. And therefore, let's do it, then they'll do so. So I think there's multi-factors. I think we've seen like a lot of examples of this in terms of like low fat, like in eliminating fat out of your diet and like, you know, other like focuses in terms of like, which foods that we all need to focus on. I feel like this, it's sort of a trends thing, right? And so it starts out as like veganism is I've seen like a big movement and push in that direction. I have, I've seen lately I've seen a lot of push back against it. And so you see like the carnivore kind of diet emerge. And then you see like people like swarming over to that. There was Atkins before. So I think that in terms of capturing the market and like capitalizing on that, I think that there was opportunity there now to like, we have the technology to make this fake meat. And so like in order to get people to buy into it, we're going to force them in that direction. And so I think if a lot of it is like, now that there's more control over the way that consumers get information and like, we all have the same information on our phone, but they can control that a lot more. And you've seen them manipulate, you know, algorithms and ways people like receive information. So the nefarious part for me is that it's like, you know, whether it's like trying to make a sick and all that kind of stuff. And it's like a real devious plot.  But I just think in terms of us having to having access to information, like they can control a lot of the information we receive. And so to inform the consumers that this is the direction we need to go is an agenda that businesses have. Yeah, I don't, I mean, I, I don't, I don't think it's this crazy plot to make us sick. I think, I think that also just plays in the favor, too. Of like, that plays into the, you know, the medical industry. Oh, yeah. That's a huge market. So it's like, yeah, you're not, so you have the food and the medical industry, like two of the biggest industries that are out there. And so it's like, oh, OK, well, we're going to get it. We're going to push them over to process foods. That'll probably make them more sick. You'll probably make more money. We're partnering now with GLP. Right. So, you know, so you got the, you got the medical community is not going to push hard back on it because you're just going to send them more customers. Yeah, food industry, it's their best interest to make more money. So I do think like your point about like the zero fat like movement that we had in like the late nineties or whatever I thought, I think that's the same thing. I think it was driven by the same thing. I don't think it will, even though it ended up making people sicker and unhealthier, like we saw this firsthand, right?  And all of a sudden, everything goes away. Everything goes away. So we saw firsthand how what that started to do to people because they didn't know any butter. So I do think that, I think that was a result of it. I don't think that was a desired outcome. I think the desired outcome was, oh, let's create a new niche market of non-fat milk and fake butter and all this stuff like that. Well, look, I'll give you an example. There was that study that showed, so when people get hospitalized for depression, it's pretty bad. Like you're pretty bad. They did a study where they had a group of, they took groups of people who were hospitalized and they put them in rooms where there was a window that faced the east. So the rising sun would come and shine through the window. They were hospitalized significantly less than people who weren't in rooms like that. Now, do you think it's in the best interest of these hospitals to build rooms that allow for more sunlight to come in with the rising, do you think that that's in their best interest? Or do you think it's in their best interest to have people stay a little longer, right? So I don't necessarily think people are like evil at the top, but the incentives don't move towards making people healthy. There's ethical issues. There's definitely ethical issues that you see like that.  And so and two, with the whole COVID thing, it's like, you see incentives for people to report things because it's like, you know, you have to like make money at the end of the day in order to keep things afloat, pay your employees and all that kind of stuff. So you're making these justifications, unethical dust justifications. A lot of like sometimes it's going to happen. Well, incentives matter. Look, I'll paint the picture just so people could be like, how people aren't evil. I know people work in the medical industry. They're good people. So do I. I think they're, I've met, I've trained and worked with lots of doctors, I have family members that are nurses, they're all amazing people. They all want to help people. So I don't think that there's these evil, whatever. I'm sure there's some, but I think a majority of them are good people. But imagine this scenario presented your corporation. You own these massive hospitals or your medical organization that works with these hospitals. And a study comes out that says sunlight, you know, windows that face the east reduce hospitalization by this percentage. And then another study comes out that says taking this antidepressant at this time when people hospitalized reduces hospitalizations. Which one do you think is going to get more attention to the pill, right? Which one is going to get more like not just attention, but more adherence, more application. And it's not necessarily because people are nefarious. It's just that's what the incentives push you towards. Right? So meat, eating, the studies are clear on this. Very clear.  Nutrient deficiencies are higher. Depression is higher. Anxiety is higher. Okay. This is a fact. It's a fact because of the lack of nutrient dense foods. The nutrients that are present meat are more easily absorbed. They're more bio available and they're just, they're just higher in order to make up for that with a non-animal product diet. You can do it. You can do it. We have modern, you know, markets. You can go to the grocery store and get all kinds of different things now at any time of the year. Okay. But it takes a lot of planning. You got to be very careful. And even then, even then, I've worked with clients like this where they were meticulous about their vegan diets. Even then they couldn't get certain nutrient levels where they needed and they begrudgingly. I remember one woman in particular, I worked with her, she was a vegan for ethical reasons. She did not want animals to get hurt. So she was one of those vegans that's like, and those are the ones that tend to be consistent, right? They really, really truly believe like, I don't want animals to get hurt. And she, man, she planned everything out. She worked with a functional medicine practitioner and me. She hired me. She had all these symptoms of nutrient deficiencies and hormone issues. We bumped her calories. I had to try vegan protein shakes. It just, there were certain things that just weren't, weren't working. Okay. Her hair was still kind of falling out. Energy was still not so great. Nails and skin weren't so good.  She started taking supplements. The supplements helped a little bit, but they didn't help a lot. Some of them caused digestive issues.  It's just not working for your body. I know you want to help animals. I said, I think a healthy version of you is going to be more effective than an unhealthy version and you have to place yourself at the top.  And she was, I remember, she was in tears. She gave in and she started by eating eggs. And the difference in her health was profound. It was so profound that I remember she would come in and she was like one of those people that was like pro vegan, but also doesn't work for everybody. And you got to do this type of thing. It's just hard.  Holy cow. We're going to have all kinds of health and mental health issues and health issues and yeah, the food industry will profit massively massive. By the way, the lab grown meat, you know, it's beautiful about lab grown meat. You patent it. If my lab grows meat, I can make it sows, ribeye. That's the biggest. I think that's the biggest thing going on here is just they're moving in that direction and it's in their best interest. And so the narrative is going to be around why you shouldn't. And you know, it's, I don't know, it's this is the challenge of free markets, right? That's in their best interest to make that money and put that message out. All I think we can do is counter it with better information, right? Yeah. So I mean, the quit. Yeah, it's just our job to inform. You know, here's why I point people, just not to cut you off, but I point people to this, there are ways of raising animals that are far more ethical, not like the conventional style. You can grass fed, it's more natural with the beef. It's going to have better fatty acid profile. The animals are treated differently. And thankfully, because of markets, you can now get it and it used to be so expensive like butcher box, for example, look at the cost of the box of meat that you get. You're not spending more money. It's actually convenient. It's better. And you've got ethically raised like wild caught fish, grass fed beef, heritage pork. You know where it's coming from. You if you want, you can contact the company to figure this all out. I was going to bring up. I was going to bring up butcher box. Do you know if they're like, are they campaigning against a message like this? Or do they just ignore it? Yeah, that's an interesting question. That's a good question. It's like a direct shot across the bow of them, right? I mean, that's their business. I would almost, yeah, I would almost want to. Yeah, me too. I'm surprised. I don't think I've seen anything because I haven't heard anything from our end, like of them sending out stuff where they're like, actually, I mean, you would think that they would do that. Or maybe at least a comparison, you know, and like, look at the value of the nutrients and what not, you know, or maybe there's enough people that are subscribed and that are not even that are not even listening to that message that doesn't it's not hurting them like that. But I would think that it would affect their business. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, maybe not yet, but maybe in the future, you know, my favorite part of this whole movement is, have you seen that people are actually doing this? Have you seen these vegan cat foods? You're taking a carnival. They're not even if they're just like a carnivore.  Come on, man. They're not. Yeah, it's it's not benefiting these poor animals. Oh, what did that say right there, Doug? So yeah, so we partner. This is butcher box, according to them. We partner with people who are dedicated to doing the right thing. So they always do 100% grass fed grass finished humanely raised, never given antibiotics or hormones. So they do focus very seriously. I have a super naive question. What is the difference between like a grass fed farm? I should know this right because I was in the dairy and farm industry. What is the difference between like a grass fed beef farm versus a regenerative? Is it the same thing? Is so if you are doing grass fed, is it considered a regenerative farm or is they they they're typically if they're typically yes, but they're not always the same. So you could get up for me. Doug, I'm curious. They could just bring grass to the cows, have a meat. Or regenerative is when they're using the land and cycling through and using all of the land using the manure. So they sort of cycle where they eat. Yeah, I think they move them from pasture to pasture. I know that about grass fed beef. I'm familiar with that. What I'm not familiar with is what constitutes a regenerative versus that. Because I actually am not familiar with any situation where you bring grass to cows. You wouldn't do that. Yeah, you would you would you would feed them silage and you would feed them cornmeal and stuff like that. Does that incorporate more of the ecosystem of other animals and stuff to kind of like trample the ground and they and they know that's what I've read. That's what what's his name talked about. Rob Wolf. Yeah, look up what is regenerative farming. There's there's other animals that play a big role in that in order to like keep a lot of the vegetation and stuff in the soil, for instance, from I just go to become a real popular news board in that community. And I mean, I came from an organic dairy. So when we we move the cattle like from pasture to pasture, they were grass fed. But we also they were able to grain finish those those cows. But what I didn't know the difference is like, OK, what makes it regenerative versus non regenerative? If it's if you are going an all organic route, you're going all grass fed, would that just automatically fall in that category? What does that say Doug? Well, I'm looking at this trying to get an answer that's kind of clear. But what they're saying is really is just the ability to roam freely. That's the main point that I'm seeing as far as that is concerned. Yeah, I mean, for sure, every time we do something like this, where none of us have a definitive answer, I will get 50 dm. Yeah, I'm sure. Get a legit farmer. Yeah, yeah, I got it. I got a regenerative agriculture right there. Who's got this? Is that you, Andrew? OK, good. All right. So look at look at look at there's three here. So go to go to 100 percent regenerative grass fed beef. What does that say up there in summary that or maybe the top point just says genuinely regenerated and 100 percent grass fed beef comes from animals that lived on pasture foraging on nothing but grasses from birth to harvest. The true definition of grass fed and grass finished. Well, the one on the right, though, right next to it is what is what's considered a grass fed but not. So go go grass fed beef right here. A lot of fake grass fed beef is meant to mean genuine regenerative and 100 percent grass fed beef comes from animals that lived on pasture. But OK, but this is not always the case meant to have access to a pasture, but not always the case and could be extremely limited. Many grass fed cattle are in refinement but fed some grass. Yes, that's what I thought, like they literally throw it in their feed. So I was actually reading from the butcher box page there and, you know, it says if you're buying grass fed beef, you're maybe not getting what you think you are. Typically grain fed or grass fed cattle start their lives on pasture, but are later confined to feed lots where their diets can include grains. Wow, so they can so they can consider it still grass fed if they started their life on that. That's why it has to say grass. OK, so grass fed grass finished cattle, also known as 100 percent grass fed are free to roam on pasture for their entire lives, not just when they're calves. Do you know what? So I always thought that the so the cutout I thought, I don't know, so like this is more more questions that would be somebody else can answer better that if it was grass fed as long as they could do it all the way.  But they still were most of their lives that thought grass fed. But from what that sounds like, you don't even need to do that. They all the way through a lot of trickery going on. Yeah, if you look, you know, that's a shitty part about that. You know, I'm saying that's the argument the other side makes for this. I don't think is it two weeks out? I think it's longer than that.  It would Oh, yeah, with cows with humans to anybody.  They have another gear, bro.  Yeah, yeah. They'll they'll go they'll continue to just eat. In fact, I can't remember or call a time. Oh, well, if a cow that's how you knew a cow was sick, right? So if you pour their especially the grain and silage, which they love, you pour that in their in their trough.  If they left something, you always tag that cow. Something's wrong with 487. You know, something's wrong with 519, like they didn't finish their you just know. Did you help them produce like calf? Like how do you have? What do you have one bull for how many cows? How did that work? One one bull.  One bull for one hundred and fifty cows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, so so remember that the heifers only come in. They only come in heat. They're just they come in heat at different times. So let's say you have like 15 in heat, you see the signs that they're in heat, then you move them in. What are the signs? I don't remember what I didn't. This is not a part that I did a lot of. Like I had stand different. No, no, no, no. No, I mean, honestly, I think I remember you seeing like like blood and stuff coming. Oh, yeah, yeah. You would see. Yeah, like discharge and stuff like that. If I recall. Now, what do you do? You just bring the bull in? He knows what to do.  He's normally kind of hanging out by himself.  Oh, yeah, yeah. He'll take it. I mean, it's a real quick action. You know what I'm saying? It's like you don't even realize like really he's got a hundred and fifty. You know, yeah, he ain't trying to take his time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I yeah, it's an interesting question to add. I never thought to ask like what is the ratio like there's got to be a point where you get more where you want more more.   I didn't know that. But there's still one bull for that many wholly to lead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. That's good. I've never thought about what the number. There's got to be a cutoff though. Like once you get to a certain amount, you would want to have bulls. It's like, dude, yeah, I would grab ideas of like. So when I was in Scotland, they had these like cows that would they have these longhorn cows that were like super sweet. Oh, man, I was like, I could totally like own a few of those guys. They're huge. Yeah, they actually have many versions of them. That's you. Yeah, it was ridiculous. So look what it says. I was right. It was signs of heat standing to be mounted, mounting other cows. Wow. So yeah, you'll see the cow will do it. You'll see other half just like you see with dogs, right? Two male dogs or two. You'll see them mounting those are heat and cattle, not the bulls. Yeah, no, exactly. Same thing. You see the same sex of a dog. If they're in heat, they start doing they start acting. But the big one is the mucus discharge. You'd see this mucus discharge, you know, have a little bit of blood in it and you would know. You know, I'm saying, OK, it's time. Bellowing. OK, so they are like, yeah, I think I know. Well, that's what today's program giveaway maps power lift here so you can win it. Leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we post it. Also subscribe to this channel and then turn on your notifications. If you win, you'll get maps power lift. We also have a sale going on right now maps old time strength, half off. Maps obstacle course racing.  If you're interested, do this. Click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. So how was the because we started late today because you were you you drove far to go to the game. Oh, what's the game? Who play? What a Chris Sacramento Kings versus the Warriors. And who won? Crazy Sacramento. Well, it was such a crazy night altogether. So for you've heard me, guys, I don't and I'm not going to bust them out completely on the podcast.  So we go way back. And he is the one who got injured and had this windfall of money. So he was like, yeah, he was in his 30s, still living with his dad. I told you guys this and then got a lawsuit, had a windfall of millions of dollars and stuff like that.  You still have friends, but maybe as you get older, you realize, like, OK, we have less in common now. And so we see less and less of each other. But we still really, that's because they can they still act like they did when you were two. Yeah. And that's kind of that's definitely him. Like, he's still like that.  Well, anyway, here we go. What happened if he does, he deserves to hear this anyways, because he was. So I'm with now my other best friend, who I tell you about, that Justin, who I do all kinds of stuff with and his wife is great friends of mine. And him and I are his third best friend. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we're all we're all I know people probably get confused. I have to have another. I know him. He's cool. Close, close buddy. Only one side. Really cool, Justin.  And this guy, first time I meet him, like maybe a month ago, we hit it off. Super cool guy, very successful dude. He started up those care homes and we're all we're all big basketball fans, but he's a Kings fan. And so we're all, you know, we're talking track. Yeah, yeah. And having a good time and he's like, hey, we should all catch a game. I said, yeah, I would love to. Well, long story short, this dude offers up. He literally gets all of us tickets for us and our wives to go to the game, right? And I'm like, I can't do in the amount of cheap tickets. Yeah, yeah. This is where we're sitting like great seats, right? And I go, oh, man, I can't because that nice of a gesture. I was like, I can't accept that. I was like, let me barely know the guy, right? Let me, let me at least take care of mine and my wife's tickets. No, absolutely. No, he's like real nice guy, like totally refused me, wouldn't let me do anything. So anyways, we go incredible game last night. So it's off. It's off. It's like incredible. It's an intern in season tournament game. And out of the blue, my buddy, who we don't really talk to very much, we're on this little thread and every once in a while it pops in and whatever he'll say something. And my other, my other buddy who stayed with me here, Justin. Okay. Is like, I don't, I remove myself from that thread because I can't stand him anymore. I don't want to talk to him. And he doesn't know that because I don't know if you know this, but when someone pulls himself out of like an iPhone thread, you'll still see their name. You can mute it. Yeah. And so he sees nothing that that guy sees, but he thinks he's still on that thread. So he's like having these conversations sometimes. And I know it because I'm in it still. And so he messes him. Yo, JP, Justin, he's like going to the king's game. You want to go with me because they live over there. I don't live over there. So he doesn't even, I'm like, oh, that's crazy. I'm like, we're actually going to be there. Justin's neighbor hooked us up with some tickets. Oh, where are you sitting at? Where are you going to be at? I'm going to be court side. Where are you guys at? And so he was making this big and I'm like, at this point, we're like, I should have said nothing. Yeah. But then I'm like, I'm going to run into this full. Like, you know what I'm saying? And then it'll be worse if I like, like, we're again, we go back to high school. So anyways, I tell him where we're going and where and I find out where the seats are at. So he does some stuff to move around. Now, we warn this guy that we I just met in his Justin's neighbor like, hey, we're going to run into one of our friends like, please. It's not a representation. Oh, he's like that. No, I had to have that. I literally had to talk because I barely know this guy. This guy's really nice. I just want you to know, like, we're probably going to run into Justin and I's buddy for my school. Everybody's got that one friend. Yes. You got to warn everybody. And it's a new like relationship that I'm like building with this new guy, right? So I'm like, hey, this dude is not a representation of anybody else that would hang with me today. Like, this is just so you know. And and so we're kind of giving him that warning. So am I buddy? Because he came in, he was living at home with his dad till he was 30 something years old and he was kind of going nowhere for a for a long time. He was that and that was part of why we all drifted apart. Rest of our friends all went off to college or made something themselves did something.  Right. He ends up getting this massive lawsuit. So now he's that same guy. Just a ton of money. And somebody who gets that like that, the insecurities around it are crazy. It's like they got to they got to prove that they like they made it even though they didn't make it. You know what I'm saying? And so he finds out where we're at and he gets the the front row seats. So we're on like we're in the third row, which are really nice seats. Sorry, it's still considered court side where we're at. And he gets the court. I mean, these are the seat. And it's right. There's two on the floor. Yeah, he's on the floor and he's by this on the bed. One percent when they got it. Had he not known you were 100 percent, he's never said I know he has it. And on top of it, he buys it because he doesn't want to go by himself. So he buys a ticket to this dude I've never met.  When I ask him about him, he's like, oh, it's my my Baccarat buddy, Baccarat, buddy. Fuck, you play Baccarat.  Yeah, my buddy, he starts getting drunk. He starts being obnoxious, acting like he owns the place. It's like a whole time. I'm like, and he's real close.  So I don't want to be associated with him.  So if you watch the game, those that watch the game will understand like how crazy funny this is. So quarters one through three lawyers are dominating. I mean, we are up 15 to 20 points the entire game. My buddy, who's the king's fan who brought us. I feel bad for him. He brought us all these tickets and like, we're just thumping him the game's gonna. And but I'm like, man, this is crazy.   What do you do? Just talking to the players, talking to the people.  Hold on real quick. And saying how much of those tickets costs on the floor? 13,000 for that. He got ejected on 13,000 and bought the guy next to him and got ejected in the third quarter when they gave it and the Kings come make the craziest comeback I'd ever seen with a buzzer beater one point when it was one of the most epic games. It sucked for me because we lost. Yeah. But one of the most epic games I'd ever seen live happened. And so he gets thrown out. The story gets crazier. So like I go down.  No, well, the story gets crazier, right? So the other part was almost getting into with Nate Diaz, right? Wait, wait, wait, wait. U of C, Nate Diaz. So I go down. So yeah, yeah. So I'm in the lounge area. It's that's a little bit of a stretch that I really kind of have. But he was there. And what happened to me and how I found out he was there. So I go to the I break off at like mid fourth quarter to go to the restroom. And at this point, the game's going. So there's like hardly anybody in this lounge area. And there's like a group of like four or five people, like four, four dudes and three or four girls that are just like in this Lexus lounge area, private area, and I don't pay no attention. I'm like be lying straight to the restroom because I gotta go and go to the restroom. And when I come out, I swing the door and slam into this dude. And this dude kind of turns around, mean mugs me and then we're like walking. Oh, I touched him. I'm sorry, bro. Like it wasn't a big deal. And as they come out, he's for he's with Nate and all these guys. And they're all like, yeah, I hit one of his boys. I didn't know who he was, right? But I still said I'm sorry. Like a couple. I was in a hurry, right?  It's always that guy, though, right? Yeah. And of course, I'm with me and I was being a nice guy about it. I was, oh, man, I grabbed him. I'm sorry, dude. I'm sorry. And he's kind of give me this mean look. And then we I followed him out of the bathroom. He's still dogging me and stuff like that. And then I see he stands right next to Nate. I'm like, oh, yeah, great. This will be my luck. You know what I'm saying?  You know what I'm saying? So yeah, I end up I just I walk out. I get out of there.  So nothing happened with them. That was that was a stretch to say something about this. The game was incredible. The scene. My buddy get thrown out of the game. Did he say anything? Has he said anything to you? Oh, after the after the show, I'll show you guys the thread of the conversation. Is he apologizing? Does he know we act like no, no, no, no. This is the friend. I told you.   So he tells like outlandish crazy stories. So the thread that I have of the text messages of when I got out of the game, it was him telling me how he told the Kings how they're going to give me three more games for free. Or also, I'll never come back. My lawyers are coming after and going to sue the sue the Verena. That's a fiat, bro. Wait till I get you. It's too long to read. It's painful. It's too long to read on the podcast, but I'll let you guys read it afterwards of the conversation that he was having basically with himself. It's everybody else's. And you still call him a friend. I mean, it's like one of those guys I feel like. I mean, I don't know if you guys have a loyal to him. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's a loyalty there.  And she died of brain cancer when we're in high school. And I and I also when I moved into this new town, he was one of the first kids that befriended me. So you got loyalty. So exactly. So I have this. So his mom was like another mom to me. He befriended me when I was a new kid in town. We, you know, so we were, we were tight. We were really tight when we were growing up and we just, we outgrew each other and went different directions and he kind of just like I said, he didn't really become a pathological liar till after we got older. And then it was like, and if you've ever met someone who's like a true pathologist, you can't call them on it. They're so good at it. Like he's so good that he, when he tells stories, like he inserts truth. And so, and there are always things that you can get out of that you can't prove. Like he told us when we got there, he told me how him and Clay were in the elevator together and he was telling Clay, oh man, great game. Tell him who he was and all the stuff like that. And it's like, I can't prove that it was just him, just him and Clay, right? So nobody could prove. Nobody could prove that he was hanging out with Clay in the elevator talking to him on the way on the way to the game. It's like, but, but you do know what I do know is that the players stayed at the same hotel that he was at. So there's a possibility. Possibly. Yes. And it's always like that. You know, I'm saying when they're really good at lying like that, though, they always have these like hints of. I have a friend, I'll say friend that was like that where he would not like that. But I stopped hanging out with him because when we go out, if he had a one or two drinks, he would always start a fight. Yeah. Always would start a fight.   But then after the second or third time, like, I don't want to go out with you, bro.  It's terrible. It ruins a night. And you're just angry.  I was like, oh, they're going to mature. Yeah. Yeah. Like, eventually, right? That's how I felt, too. And then waiting for them. Yeah. And then you just, I guess the only move for me was I had the same issue, though. I had a lot of friends like that that was like, I'm loyal to them.  And like, I know their families and it goes deep, you know? But at the same time, you're like, but you haven't changed your behaviors.  Dude, I got some heartbreak around the story like that. It was I went the first one of the first clubs I ever ran. There was an AGM there that worked for me. And he had kind of a bad reputation, but I took him under my wing and I wanted to train, develop him. And he was definitely working hard and really doing a good job while I was there. And when I left, I, you know, really put in a lot of good words for him. And at the time he was performing well to take over as the manager of that club, which he'd never gotten before. And it was a big deal for him. Yeah. He becomes the manager and slowly, like, declines into some of his old habits where he'd show up to work late, drunk, doing drugs. These are the rumors I was hearing. I get on the phone with him like, what's going on, dude? This is your best opportunity. Like, why would you throw this away? Anyway, long story short, he lost that. And I still would talk to him and he cut me. He like ignored me for a while and then I get a phone call from him. After a while, he ignored me. He called me and he calls me to bail him out of jail. And so I did, but I knew, like, I'm going to, I'm going to bail you out. I know you have a family. Yeah. And I care about you. Yeah. But after I give you this money, I'm never going to talk to you again. And that's exactly what I did. Because I had to create that, you know, that bounty. And I did. I bailed him out and then that was it. And then a couple of years later, he tried to get in contact with me. But at that point, I'm like, he wrote it off. Yeah. It's like, I'm not going to, you know, but it's heartbreaking. You know, it reminds, you tell the, your evolutionary theory around why us men like pick on each other and stuff, right? To see, are you going to hang? Are you in like, I 100% grew up in a group of guys like that. Oh yeah. But once we all got to, if we still are friends and now that we're in our forties or whatever like that, it's like everyone, most everyone has grown beyond that, right? You don't need to challenge me anymore. For 20 years, I've been around. You know, I got your back. You've already been in 50 fights together. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, there's nothing to prove anymore. So we should all be like that. He still has that in him. And now it's like, it's meaner and uglier. It's more mean-spirited. Yeah. It's more. I know that. It's more mean-spirited. And so that the reason why my other buddy, so if he ends up hearing this, he'll know why. My other buddy, Justin, who stopped talking to him, pulled himself out of the thread.  Oh, you don't touch that. Oh, yeah. I tell him he's not. You don't touch that.  These are things you don't touch. Yeah. And you don't come in from a guy who's not a father. It's like, dude, what are you doing? Like, you don't you don't say that to a friend, too. Like, you don't say that to a nothing. I wouldn't say that to some way I don't like. Yeah. You don't say much less to somebody who you like. And it's like, I don't even know if he realizes like how mean spirited that is. And it's like, we're 40 years old. Like, I don't want that in my life. He was my buddy. And so that's why he removed himself because he can get like that. Isn't that interesting?  And I think some people don't know how to discern that. Like, you ever have that buddy?  Yeah. And then he takes it too far.  You went too far. Like, that's not he can't.   And that's not really cool. Yeah. And it's so funny because I had a friend like that. And I was still friends with that guy, right? And meanwhile, I'd kind of float around to other groups of friends and they'd be like, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm going to invite so-and-so to come hang out. They're like, really? Yeah. And they get all like uncomfortable and later on I figured out like, yeah, he's really hard to like deal with because he'll be that guy that will like launch an insult that's like, is this funny or is this just really mean? You know how you know the difference? This is how you can always tell they can dish it out. They cross the line. They can't take it. It's always that. The guy that can't take what he dishes out, that's a red flag. This dude's insecure and he's not because if you're going to give it to me and you're going to cross some lines, then you're going to get it back. And if you can't take it back. Well, this is what I'm actually having this conversation a lot with Ethan because he's he's in that that phase right now where a lot of his friends are figuring that they're doing that, you know, and they're all kind of like the pecking order thing and then one's gone off with this group of friends. The other ones have gone this way. He's kind of over here and with, you know, this this new kind of group of friends. And so, you know, it's just like being able to identify that and like if it's mean spirit or if it's like it's it's true, just like they're just, you know, jabbing at you to joke. I I will not do to somebody else that something that I can't take back.  Things that I can be sensitive about. I would never do that someone else. Right. If I did, I better be OK. That's right. With you hitting me back. That's right.  It's funny. It's like, and it was just and then we move on from it.  It doesn't even belong there. Like he'll he'll be like talking down about somebody else or something like that and then find a way to like pull you in as and put you down with that. And it's just like, why am I standing here listening? I have a I have a buddy. Why am I getting buried? I mean, Katrina, Katrina apologized to me on the way home. She goes, you know, I'm really sorry. I said, why? And she goes, well, I know you so well. And she goes, I heard your tone of your voice and she goes in the hair stood up on my neck. And I know when you don't get like that, I should just pull you out of that situation. And I left you in there. She goes, I'm sorry that I didn't come and she's because I can rely on her to be like that. Oh, honey, we have to go come and save this. Yeah, yeah. Like she's got that reading. Yeah. You know, by the way, that's a good you know why that's a good woman because a man will get stuck in a situation and will not leave because it can make him appear to be less manly. It can make him feel that way or you just are not aware enough. A good woman will know I'm going to step in and help. Yeah. And she and she's like solid for that. Like normally spot on. She catch she can she can read my body language the way I'm responding and she'll normally come over and make something up, right? Like, oh, honey, we have to go do this or oh, so and so won't need you to call them or like she'll do something where it pulls me out. I don't have to. I don't have to be the person who's just like, hey, bro, don't want to talk to you and walk away. And she's like, I totally she goes, I was into my thing. I heard you. My hair stood up. I should have said something. I got a buddy like that where I'll say something like, oh, you know, this happened in on the business or whatever.  Like, like that's not even a good way.  That's not really good.  I mean, I love I love a good razzing or jam. My favorite.   Well, how many times have we talked? We've this is a funny thing for the audience to have insight perspective. Like, so we all like her like that with each other, right? So when we meet people, you know, they just because we are that way, right? And we don't know them. We don't have this relationship. And so you get these people that listen to the show sometimes. Oh, they jump in. Yeah, they jump in. I don't know you what he do. Yeah. And they want to they want to get a part of that. And so they'll just come in insulting one of us. And some people have good delivery and some people don't have really good delivery. And yeah, we don't have rapport, man. Yeah.  Yeah, I'll say something. You're like, what? Like that's the first thing they say. But I know it's our own fault because we put ourselves up for that energy off. You know what you should have done when your friend was was acting that way is you should you should have given him some some some Organifi Goldjuice to get him just to bring this great commercial break right there. Hey, do you have? I was wondering how he's going to shoot a shoehorn or get a bike commercial in here.  Yeah.  Or get a bike. I think that's a really relaxing. I wish we could do more fun commercials like that. That would be funny. Hey, speaking of the Goldjuice that the pumpkin spice Goldjuice. Oh, my God, bro. With almond juice, macadamia nut. Do you slip into your uggs when you make that? Oh, I want to. You slip into your uggs. I should have.  I passed out when I got home with the tree and then the fireplace and then the beanbag.  So you're stuck there. Unofficial. This is not organized by promoting this, but I am going to say this. You take the Goldjuice, you get some almond milk or some macadamia milk or whole milk if you can have dairy.  Is that what they intended? They don't. I don't like getting a call from Drew right now. What are you guys doing? Hey, maybe not bring up alcohol with our health products. It's got pro liver health compounds in there. So that's that flavor like available for that. Speaking about your life, are you are you still building your man cave or did you finish it? What are you out with? Still, I'm still kind of adding. Well, here's the thing, like in in we're talking about teasing and whatnot, like Courtney and I have had this kind of relationship too.  So I'm trying to like reorganize my thoughts with it, get it, get somebody's to help me sort of like structure it better. Yeah, because I was going to go in a little ham, you know, like I was like buying all these cool things and like trying to make it work. And and she's like, maybe you want to step back and kind of like, that's like the nice, nice white place. Yeah, take a look at what you're and I get it too. And she was not trying to be mean about it. She was just trying to get me to kind of like, oh, so I've been reassessing it it's pretty much there. It's just like it needs it needs like organization. I could send a picture. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, we got to say this before we ran out of time. We have to bring this up. Well, Tucker Carlson on X did a segment on what's that new act that they passed? The UAE. UAE, they're going to be releasing information that the government has or they're trying to on UFOs. I did not know this. There are 10 whistleblowers that were deep in these federal agencies that have come forward and under oath have literally said, yes, these are extraterrestrial aircraft. No, they're not made from any government that we know of. Yes, we are in contact and we have been in contact with extraterrestrial beings. We did capture some bodies like this is real. This is the real deal. So they passed this act, which is like, you've got to release this information. There were politicians who are ready to get the information. Deep agencies step forward and literally said, no, you're not getting it. And so they went to the media and said, why can't we get this? Yeah, this is all happening. All people in Congress, everybody was like, oh, yeah, let's start like diving into this. And got this is real. This is all real. Not saying that they're telling the truth. So OK, this is this. Here's my tinfoil hat coming on here, bro.   Is that why now? If it is true, why like why at this moment in time, which is a kind of a weird time right now coming into another election. I tell you, man, I haven't. Coming into the economy being crazy. Like I did not have this on there. This is this is weird to me and weird timing even more so.  Well, the whistleblowers have come out. This has been in the I thought the same thing. Did you hear about what by the way, too, speaking like since here's one that could go gone. Did you hear about the Pentagon again in their budget? Yeah, they failed sixth time. Yeah, audit, audit. Yes, bro. They failed 50% unaccounted for assets. Come on. I mean, how can people just not get like infuriated? So can't that can't that make you feel like, OK, that's a great way to distract everybody right now. Oh, aliens don't don't worry about the trillions of dollars. That's part of it, though. They're like, we want to investigate where all this money's going. Yeah, yeah.  Like we need transparency for the American people. Now, Tucker Carlson is like, why won't they really feel this? And the common theory is they don't want to cause a panic.  He goes, look how they used the pandemic. They love scaring us. They love scaring us. That's why it doesn't make sense. He said, maybe it's because they don't want us to know that they've got technology that they've been using. Maybe it's because there's other reasons that are worse. For us, like they've made deals. That was the thing is like, have they made deals with these like extraterrestrials that we don't know about? Along those lines, have you guys seen the video? Do you guys remember Malaysia Air? I don't remember what it was. It was the jetliner. There's a document here. It was Netflix, I think. The other one just appeared. Yes, yeah, yeah. Okay, there's videos. You ready for this? Okay. There's videos, both actual video and thermal video of the plane itself flying surrounded by orbs, going around it. Three of them. Like going around it. Okay. There's a few videos and it vanishes. Literally disappears. It looks just like a Hollywood movie where it just like poof. And now here's the thing. There, I forgot who it was. There's people that are, there's a person or a group that's coming out that is now offered overall. I think that the amount is keeps going up. But I think at the moment it's $150,000 to anybody who can prove that these videos are fake. Oh really? They're putting money out and saying prove to me. Well, cause they haven't found any remains. Cause they thought it crashed but they didn't find any remains of it. Thermal video. It's flying orbs. Yeah. Did they find parts of the plane and everything washed up on a beach or island? Disproved. Yeah. Cause it was like they were like. Oh, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. They were parts from another plane. Doug, pull up the Malaysia air surrounded by orbs. It literally just disappears. What year was that? What year was that? I don't know. It was a couple of years ago. It's been a while more than that. Way longer. Yeah. Well, that's when the documentary came out but. Yeah, bro. Come on. It's crazy. I don't know. And they're offering money to prove that those are fake videos and nobody's coming forward. I don't know why everybody's looking over here. I'm trying to figure out what's going on over here. Well, I know. Speaking of the Pentagon, you know, this is old, right? But when you really think about it, I'm gonna throw another. I don't know. We'll see if this episode gets flagged. Yeah. The Pentagon is not a very tall building. It's a wide building. It's massive. It has to be the most, one of the most if not the most surveyed buildings in the world. It's the Pentagon. Yeah. A pilot, or should I say a passenger, who learned how to fly a single engine Cessna, who on the report was such a terrible pilot that the guys didn't want to even pass him, hijacks a 747, figures out how to maneuver it with maneuvers that not even the best fighter pilot said that they could probably do, hits the side of the building, basically hovering over the ground, which is 747. Good luck doing that. And we have no video evidence because they confiscated all the videos. That's what happened on September 11th. That's literally what happened with the Pentagon on September 11th. There were people that went on camera, the eyewitnesses, if you will. Yeah. So weird. Who knows what the deal is, but what are they? Obviously, they're hiding something. Obviously, something is going on. So who knows? Just speaking of the Pentagon. Yeah. You're really gonna get us flagged. We just threw that on top. Little cherry on top. Yeah. You can't find the Orr video, Doug? I can find it. Well, I got a cool, well, I guess it's kind of scary, but also cool. Oh, there it is. Hold on, look at this. To bring up. Look at this video. Oh, Doug, you're not a member of TikTok. You can't get on it. All right, we'll look at it as we go. But anyways, there's a scientist in Russia. So you guys know about the permafrost, right? Oh. Okay, hold on. Let's watch this. I love this. This is always the music when something's weird, isn't it? Do, do, do. Yeah, it's always that. So this is satellite image, okay? Look at those little... So there's the orbs circling around it. Just spinning around it. And then all of a sudden, it literally just pops out of existence. Like, what are those, dude? Watch. Ready? And... Gone. So that's a satellite that took those? That's a satellite image. Why did they put an emoji there? That's really annoying. Just the, yeah. This is TikTok. All right, all right. Go ahead, Justin. What do you got there? The permafrost? Yeah, the permafrost. So it's been thawing out and they've been getting mammoth bones and all that kind of stuff. Well, I guess like there's one part of the permafrost that goes really deep. And so they were like investigating it and actually they found like the deepest part, this bacteria that was, I don't know, like 6. something million years old. I guess they assumed that was still alive. And so being scientists like, hey, let's like test this bacteria. And so they injected it in mice and plants. And apparently they had like tremendous longevity in terms of health and prosperity and all this stuff. Like, and so... Wait, the mice became prosperous? The mice, that would be crazy. I get not prosperous. They started businesses wrong. We're in...  Damn, these mice making investments. They just lived a long time. Why do we always use that word when it's about longevity? It goes hand in hand. Anyways. Thanks for calling me out on that. Yeah, so anyway. So they lived a long time. So they lived a long time. They're healthy. They're healthy and vibrant. Vibrant. They're rich in life. Vibrant. Rich in life. I found it, it's vibrant. But anyway, so the scientist that was observing this like decided to inject himself with it. Oh. And so... Just like that? Just like that. All he needed was a couple mice. Right? It's not all he needs. Hey, this mouse just started a business. Yeah. But of course, so far he's trying to report like health benefits from, but I don't know. I'm gonna be like watching to see what happens. Did this just happen? Not that long ago. Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah, so. And he's still alive. He's still alive. So countdown's on. Why would you... Why? Why would you do that? And it's 6.5 million... Yeah. We gotta get his name so we can like watch him. I'm sure he's got some social media. Yeah. Yeah, we'll watch him. I mean, I don't know it. I want to look it up, but... I'd love to give him a shout out. I was supposed to give him a shout out. Shout out to the scientist. I'll look that up while you guys converse. He injects himself with bacteria from the perforose because he saw prosperous mice. He's... I mean, you know. Who doesn't want to be prosperous? Not at all. All right. Do we have a shout out for today? So I guess somebody had that. I might have brought him up a long time ago on here, but he's, I mean, he's continued to grow and he's that comedian, Tyler Fish. Oh, he's lit. Yeah, oh, Tyler Fish. So, dude, I've been following him for a really long time and I remember he started to really blow up in the... During the vaccine. He'd do a lot of funny vaccine jokes that went viral. Yeah. He's in that movie now that Daily Wire just did. What's that? What's the new one called? Oh, that's the one where they had the dudes going in the... Ballers. Lady ballers. Lady ballers. So he's got a role in that. I thought that was so crazy. I had been texting him for a long time. I was trying to get him to do like an opener. He offered to do an opener for like one of our live events. Oh, wow. And I just never followed up and executed it and I reached out to him again to congratulate him. So, yeah, he's definitely a worth a follow for me. I found the Russians doctor's name. What is it? So it's Dr. Brochoff. So, B-R-O-U-C-H-K-O-V. Did you just make that up? I... Sounds like it. What's up, Brochoff? Joy Mode was created to help improve blood flow throughout the whole body, including and especially in those special areas. Joy Mode is made with products and compounds that have been shown in studies to relax the blood vessels and help things stand up strongly. Go check them out. Go to usejoymode.com forward slash mind pump.  All right, back to the show. First question is from Yulina Lika. Can overtraining and under recovery cause you to lose muscle and gain body fat? Absolutely, 100% and there's a few reasons why. One is overtraining essentially means that you're adding too much or applying too much stress to your body or your body can't recover and adapt. Okay, because it has to do both. Recover and adapt to the stress that's being placed on it and of course exercise is a stress. And so when that happens, you're now in this chronic state of stress. And when that happens, your body is trying to conserve calories and it's trying to become more efficient. One of the ways it does this is by pairing muscle down and it shifts hormones in a way so that fat storage becomes more likely. So your body literally, think of it this way, it would be like you are, you know, with your family, normal economy, all of a sudden the economy crashes. What are you gonna do? You're gonna start saving money.  Things are looking bad. Let's slow down the spending. Let's start cutting expenses and let's start saving as much money as possible cause times are really scary. And this is what your body does when you're overtrained and not recovering is your body wants to move this direction. So you become weaker, you start to gain more body fat, cravings go up to try to fuel some of this. It's just not a good place to be. You definitely won't build muscle. That's for sure. The only signal your body's receiving is the food is scarce and the demands on your body have increased, right? And so it's natural inclination is to try and preserve as much as possible in terms of energy because of the environment you're presenting it. Even if that isn't the case because you're overtrained, you're adding an excessive amount of movement on top of not probably eating enough calories to supplement that, that's all your body's receiving. It's important that we understand that our, our body doesn't want to carry a bunch of extra muscle. It's an expensive tissue, energy wise, and it's only gonna carry the least amount it needs to to run efficiently. And so if you don't eat enough, you don't give it the building blocks for that and you overtrain the body, it'll get rid of it. It's not, it's not ideal for it to have it. And so it's only gonna operate with the least amount. And so it actually takes a lot of effort to keep building or adding or holding on to additional muscle than what you need to get through your daily activities, right? So you have the least amount you need just to get through the things you do every single day. And then we go to the gym lifting weights, hoping that we send the signal to, hey, give my body some more muscle. It needs more muscle. But if we don't give it the building blocks nutritionally that it needs, it's not gonna do it. And then if we also overstress the body so much that it's trying to defend all these things we're throwing at it, it's also not going to build muscle. And look, you know, we can look at this from a different, a lot of different ways, but let's look at this hormonally. Overtraining causes depression of testosterone. It causes a depression of growth hormone. It causes cortisol levels to be elevated when they're not supposed to be elevated. You can see estrogen and progesterone and balances in women. You also get chronic inflammation. You know, it's like any stress that your body can't handle, it starts to break down. And so this is a terrible place to be in. This is anti-muscle. This also encourages fat gain through many different methods. One of them being slower metabolism, hormone profile not so good. And also cravings. You are going to have more cravings when your stress levels are higher than what you can handle. For a few reasons, one of them is, you know, it's one way to make yourself feel better in the moment. So you're kind of using it as a way to, you know, medicate yourself.  If there's food, eat it. Cause we got to save these calories, store these calories because this is an environment that's not so safe. Okay, next question is from Jay Schaefer, WA. What's the difference between cycling calories, high days versus low days, as opposed to taking the average and eating that amount every day? Well, the biggest difference, cause there are differences physiologically, but let's start with the psychologicals. I think that's the most important thing to focus on. Real relaxed, balanced, healthy eating. And I say relaxed in the sense that you're not like counting every calorie and carrying food with you, right? But healthy, balanced, kind of relaxed eating. It's not going to look exactly the same every single day. I mean, it'll look similar. Most of us will eat the same thing for breakfast and lunch, but sometimes we'll go out for dinner, sometimes we'll eat something different, we'll switch up to meat, whatever. So to eat the exact same calories and macros every single day just is- Highly unlikely. It just doesn't mirror real life. So it's a hard transition. I should I say it's a harder transition to go from there than it would be to have days that are higher carb, lower carb. The other thing is, or higher calorie, lower calorie. The other thing is it allows you to pay attention to how you feel on days that are higher calorie or days that are lower calorie. Do I feel more sharp? Do I have more energy? Do I feel more groggy? More carbohydrates make me feel this way. More fat makes me feel this way. Higher protein makes me feel this way. Lower protein makes me feel this way. So it really, it encourages you or it creates the environment where you can really pay attention to how your body feels. Now physiologically, there's probably a pro metabolism effect that happens from this.  You're probably seeing more of that happen versus some days are lower and other days are higher and some days are even above what you're burning. And that's been my experience. I was not a lot of data to support that. There's a little bit that suggests it, but in my experience, the fluctuating seems to work better across the board. I have two different opinions on this and it depends on who I'm talking to. So I'm talking to a competitor that is getting ready for a stage which is a very small percentage of people that are listening to this. I like the consistent same calorie every single day. It's just one less variable that we're trying to figure out what happened or didn't happen in a fluctuation of weight or change in body composition.  This puts you in a surplus or deficit. Right, and so I'm looking at so many other variables. I don't want to eat that. And of course that person is expected to be measuring weighing, tracking every detail. If I'm talking to a person that is just normal general population that wants to be healthier, that wants to be fitter, I 100% am encouraging the ups and down, right? The undulating the calories where one day is higher, one day is lower, learning to adjust it based off of how busy you are, your lifestyle, how you feel better. And that's just a more sustainable way to live. That's how I live if I'm not competing, right? If I'm just eating normal, it's like, I have higher days, lower days, medium days. It's just this up and down and it's not I'm obsessing over hitting a certain amount. So it really depends on who I'm communicating as far as what the science says on it, one's better not. I think we did a video you and I did sell years ago on the little bit of science that supports the benefits of undulating, that there's probably some sort of adaption that happens if you're eating exactly the same amount of calories for a long time. And there's probably some benefits metabolically to fooling the body if you're gonna get a lot one day, less than another day. And so there probably are some, but I think that's such splitting hair difference that that's not the reason why you would do it for more psychological or lifestyle reasons. So if your general population, the answer is there is no real major difference. I think it's better and healthier for you to learn how to undulate the calories. If you are a competitor and you are like dialing in measuring and paying attention to everything, I like to keep it controlled, so. Next question is from Fitness by Sunny. As a coach, my philosophy is selling health first and fat loss and muscle gain comes as a byproduct like you guys talk about. I'm having a hard time marketing this online as selling health isn't sexy in comparison to lose 20 pounds in 90 days. Do you have any advice on how to sell or market a health first approach to an audience? I don't know if we're qualified for this. I think we're still figuring that out. We have the same challenge, bro. Well, I mean, look, we've done it well enough to get where we're at and build a business that, I think the podcast now has influenced a lot of trainers and coaches to communicate some of the ways that we do. Look, I like the way the question was answered. I have a good answer for this, I do. Okay, I'll go and then I wanna hear what you have to say, but I like the way that this question is asked because you're right, you have to sell it. You have to sell it. And like any sales competition or any business, you gotta sell what you're selling better than the other guy can sell what they're selling. So you can say, health is more important than looks. Okay, and people are gonna agree with that, but no one's gonna buy that. No one's gonna pay you money to buy that. They're gonna pay the guy or girl that says, you're gonna look hot if you do what I say. So you have to figure out a way to do this. So one way to do this is to tell people if you try to look good, it ain't gonna work.  If you try to get healthy, you're gonna look better than you did if you chased the looks and you'll get really healthy. So what am I doing is I'm doing this takeaway. This one doesn't work, this one actually works, and here's why it works. So you have to reword things and you have to communicate to people in a way that's gonna get their attention. So here's what'll happen if you try to lose 20 pounds in 90 days, that'll be a great way to show people what's wrong. Here's what happens when you improve your health and get stronger and then I would sell that. Like people have to understand that it's not fast and slow, it's yes or no. I've said this before, like it's right or wrong. One way gets you there, the other way doesn't. It's not that one way is a slow way to do it and the other way is a fast way to do it. It's literally, there is only one way to do this and that is to not sacrifice your health.  Bottom line, nobody who has poor health looks good and if they do, it doesn't last very long. Just maintain your integrity. I mean, it's pretty simple actually. If you're really focused on just trying to gather as much attention as possible and get popular as you can, you're doing it the wrong way. Master your craft, help as many people as possible, do your diligence in terms of like educating yourself and just be as consistent as possible with making the right moves and the right decisions because people are watching and people are way more aware and savvy now to see bullshit and I think that yes, that gets highlighted because it gets promoted and it's got all the money behind it and there's a lot of like big business that kind of drowns out a lot of the good messages but these days especially, I just feel like there's definitely a starving sort of sensation from the consumer of finding somebody who is like consistently just delivering things that maybe aren't as popular but are like true. The irony of this question is the answer is the same answer that this person's already figured out how to talk to their clients as far as the advice on how do I lose 50 pounds or how do I get in shape and it is the slower, more gradual process is the healthier, the better, the smarter way. The same thing goes for the health of your business. Instead of being so focused on acquisition, it's more focused on retention and unfortunately we live in this social media era of. It's so funny, right? He's making the same mistake these people are making. Exactly. How can I build my business faster? Exactly, it's the same exact, so the same exact questions and the reason why we've had success is because we didn't do it overnight. We didn't do the challenges. We didn't do the before and afters. Flashing the pan. And so it's taken a really long time to accumulate the mass and the success that this business has had now but the beauty is we're not going away anytime soon and that's what's cool about when you do it, the slower, better, smarter way just like with your clients and their fitness goals, it's more sustainable. They're gonna be around here long term. It's gonna be a lifestyle. The same thing goes for your business. And by the way, there's all kinds of business gurus out there. They're gonna pitch you on funnel hacks and challenges and how to make 10 grand in a month and all these things, they're gonna give you all these gimmicks to try and get you to build or scale your business. But the truth is, back to Justin's point, focus on your craft, be a good trainer, get better.  This is the reason why we are terrible at actually marketing our fitness programs. The reason why we do really well is because the people that go through them, that listen to the podcast, see major changes in their life and they go tell five people. And then of those five people, three of those people see major changes and go tell five more people. And when you compile that over years and thousands of episodes that we've done this, now we've got a serious business on our hands. The same thing goes for you. It's just a slower, more gradual process. What a great example. Literally, he's asking the same question. And he's falling for the same thing that his clients fund. That's great. Next question is from the FitLife lawyer. Sal and Adam have mentioned both having ADHD and how it's been both a struggle and an asset in their business life. Do you have any strategies or tips for someone dealing with it in navigating relationships and business projects? You say that again, I wasn't paying attention. So they're really, they're really good. It's all self-diagnosis. No, no, I got real-diagnosis. Yeah, he has real. I have an official one. I have self. I don't know if I am or not. Same guy gave you the marijuana. But I think I feel like you, I feel like you had the same guy chasing that. What a roll. You're probably right, bro. You're probably right. Hey, you work with me, bro. You're legit. I don't have. No, I do. I'm just saying. I mean, here's it. Well, first of all, I think there's two, this is two things. Relationships and business projects, I feel like have a little bit different advice, right? On how you would handle ADHD, right? The business project one, this goes back to what I say all the time is what I thought was the single best advice that anyone ever gave me in business, which was stop focusing on all the things that I'm not good at.  That piece of advice, because if you do have ADHD, you see you get distracted really easy. And when someone's telling you, you're not good at this, you're not good at that, you're not good at this, you start your scatterbrains, squirrel, squirrel, squirrel, all over the place. One of the things that is good about ADHD is that when you do get locked in on something, you get super locked in. Yeah, then everything else goes away. So, you know, it's easy. It's to lock in on the thing that you're good at.  And don't stress so much on all the other things. Outsource and delegate. The data, by the way, shows that I think it's close to 80% of entrepreneurs would qualify as being diagnosed on that spectrum of ADHD. And that's not the normal population. ADHD does not make up 80% population. So there's a self-selection bias, essentially. So now you ask yourself, what is it that makes entrepreneurs entrepreneurs? Well, first off, they like autonomy. They're risk takers. ADHD, the theory around it and why we have it in the first place is it probably evolved as a way to get people to take risks, to seek out novelty, to hyper-focus. These are all potential strengths. All right, what are the weaknesses? Disorganize, you can be very disorganized, you can be very forgetful, you can be distracted. So what do these successful entrepreneurs with ADHD do?  That's the fact, that's it.  If you're disorganized, hire someone to do your organization.   Now as far as relationship is concerned, this is a tough one. The more your partner understands what this form of neurodivergence, this kind of category, what it entails, the less likely they are to take it personal when you forget things or you, all of a sudden they're talking to you halfway through the while they're talking to you. It seems like you're not paying attention anymore or you go off or you forgot what they said or whatever. And it could be people can take it personal. Like you don't care about me. You're not paying attention. I've asked you this 17 times, like what's going on? Why can't you just do this thing? So I would encourage you to have your partner learn about this so they could kind of understand it. And then also understand your strengths. There are positives and negatives to something like this. There are for most things. So Even more importantly, and I think, I think Sal you're really good at this. And so I think this is important advice than having your partner go do their own homework is that it's communicating it. I think you do an owning it. You do a really good job of owning the flaws that come with ADHD, right? Like, he doesn't try and mask it or pretend like he's not, you know, like that I think that's the mistake that I think someone has. Defend yourself. Like there's an ongoing joke on the podcast, right? That I always talk about how Sal can't be in a meeting for more than five. That's a true story. Like he literally can't sit in a meeting for more than five, 10 minutes before he's spitting his fingers or he's on his phone or he's doing something else. And if you didn't know that he has that, it would be really frustrating. And if he didn't admit it and own it and be like, man, I'm really bad. I'm so sorry. You guys know I'm really bad. And so we've learned to try and work around that. God bless you guys. Versus getting frustrated, Matt. And a lot of the reason why that is is purely the ownership of it. Because if you didn't take ownership of it and you denied it or you acted a lot or you got defensive about it, then it would be a major problem. So if you are this way and you know that you have these flaws and because of these you get distracted when you're talking to your friends or your wife or whatever it may be. Like you got to own it. Don't get defensive. And you got to be able to communicate to them. Like I'm sorry, like, you know, this is one of my weaknesses. Yeah, be honest. Here's what I was doing. Here's what my mind was. I got all these things going on. That's been a constant thing in my relationship. I've had to learn how to openly verbalize, right? It's not just living in my head and I'm going and doing my tasks like I could normally do. And that's where I get hyper focused is like I just bury myself in it. I don't want anybody else that I need to explain anything to. So it's just like acknowledging what your tendencies are with that and being more vocally communicating with your partner. And again, being successful helps. Yeah. Once you get to that point, it all gets easy. I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention. Look at our bank account. See what happens? I think there's a vacation. Here's another one too. Like with, you know, because obviously we're all partners is when the opportunity arises for me to be able to do the thing that I know I'm good at. That's right. It goes back to the. I really take pride in doing that thing because now I can contribute, right? Because I know I don't contribute in certain areas because it's just very, it's hard, frustrating, whatever doesn't work. But then when it's time for me to do the thing that I know that I do well, I'm so excited to be able to step up and contribute in that way. I think it works for relationships. That's great piece of advice right there because there's gonna be examples in your home where, you know, you're terrible at it. You can get distracted left, right, or whatever like that and you got to be able to communicate that to your wife or your partner. And the things that you are good at letting her or him know that, listen, I'm gonna carry this for us. I know I'm really bad when you ask me to do these things and I'm gonna keep working on trying to be better for that.  And I'm gonna really carry it and like letting them know that and then doing that, right? And then taking pride in knowing that like, hey, listen, this is something that, this is how I make up for my inability to do X, Y and Z because I get distracted. I will say this though, some strategies that can help that I have identified for myself and I've read about and I think this is kind of somewhat across the board is create routines. Routines can be practiced and it can help you to not forget.  My keys always, always go here. And if I don't, if I have in my hand, I don't put them down unless I can put them down right there. I always do this thing right before I go to bed. Exercise helps a lot. Diet helps a lot. Sleep helps a lot. The worse my health gets, the harder everything else gets along those lines. So good health, regardless of your situation always makes things a lot better.  Literally, January 15th is the first day. There's two days after that and I'm gonna teach and coach trainers on how to be better and I'm gonna have some announcements to make as well. You can sign up for it, it's free for now. Okay, so if you go right now, it's still free. Later on it might be charged but right now you can go, it's mindpumptrainer.com. If you're a trainer or coach and you wanna learn how to be more effective and more successful, go sign up. Again, it's mindpumptrainer.com. You can also find all of us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump, Justin. I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano and Adam is at Mind Pump Adam.