This episode was prerecorded as part of a live continuing education webinar. On-demand CEUs are still available for this presentation through all CEUs. Register at allceus.com slash counselor toolbox. I'd like to welcome everybody today to the presentation Love Me, Don't Leave Me addressing fears of abandonment. The purpose of this presentation is really to help us help clients increase their awareness of their story, including beliefs about behavioral reactions to situations that trigger their fear of abandonment. So how do we do that? Well, the first thing we need to figure out is what is fear of abandonment and how can we identify it in a clinical setting? Then we're going to explore the concept of schemas or core beliefs. And these are things that are formed in early childhood. And, you know, if you remember prior classes, we've talked about early childhood cognition is generally very dichotomous. Children, young children don't have the ability to look at that gray area. So these schemas, if they've gone unchecked, can lead to some very extreme belief patterns, which leads us into common traps in thinking, reacting and relationships. If your schemas are based on all or nothing, you either love me or you're going to leave me, hence the name of the book. Then your reactions are going to tend to be more extreme and more all or nothing, which increases anxiety because then any time a person perceives any amount of disapproval, obviously, is going to go to that extreme. So we want to talk about bringing it more towards the middle line and helping people learn to appreciate and love themselves for themselves while they may not approve of behaviors in other people. They can still love other people. So just because somebody doesn't approve of your behaviors doesn't mean necessarily that they're going to abandon you. So we're going to talk about that. And then we'll learn skills necessary to help people accept their past as part of their story. Maybe they do have a lot of abandonment issues. And, you know, some people do, and it really is painful. It cuts through the core, especially when those abandonment issues occur in early childhood when the kid's going, what'd I do? So we're going to talk about that and help people learn how to integrate it into their present. And we'll learn skills necessary to acknowledge that their past does not have to continue to negatively impact them in the present. So if they were abandoned when they were a child, you know, we need to deal with that. However, if they continue to expect that every significant person in their life will abandon them, notice I use the word every because we're still on those extremes, then they're going, that past is negatively impacting them in the present. So we'll talk about how to sort of moderate those belief systems. How does this impact recovery? Whether you're talking about addiction or mental health issues, connection is a basic human need. We are not meant, for the most part, to be hermits in the middle of the woods. There are introverts, and in my husband's an introvert, he has a couple of really good friends, he needs quiet time each day, he doesn't need to be surrounded by people and he's fine. But I mean, we've got human connection, he's not going to be one that's just going to, you know, move out to the middle of nowhere. I'm an extrovert on the other hand, and I tend to have a lot of acquaintances and a lot of friends and I draw energy from being around other people. So just because someone doesn't have 150 acquaintances, doesn't necessarily mean they don't need connections. So we want to recognize that connection is a basic human need. When infants are born, they are put on their mother's chest. When we embrace each other, whether it's mother and child or friends or whatever, a chemical called oxytocin is released and it's our bonding chemical. We are programmed, we are hardwired for connection and oxytocin is a very rewarding chemical. So we want to recognize this, that if people are so afraid of abandonment that they push everybody away, what are they losing as far as quality of life? As infants and children, survival is dependent upon the relationship with the primary caregiver. So if mom or dad wasn't happy, if mom or dad was rejecting, the young child was pretty much helpless. Think about a child who's growing up in a family that's just riddled with addiction and mental health issues and the primary caregiver or caregivers are completely emotionally unavailable. They may be physically there, but they may be so high or so depressed or so psychotic that they cannot attend to the child's needs. What does that communicate to the child? The child feels abandoned. The child feels a sense of neglect. People's beliefs about other people and relationships was formed largely based on their interactions with their caregivers.  Then that is, they were told, they were communicated to that their beliefs, their feelings, their wants and their needs were not important. So they were being rejected. Healthy relationships serve as a buffer against stress. So even if they had all these negative experiences in early childhood, childhood, teenage years, you know, maybe up until they walked into your office, it doesn't mean it has to continue and how much can they gain from having healthy relationships. A lot of clients that I work with who have pretty significant abandonment issues can't even fathom trusting someone enough to be in a healthy relationship. So we're going to talk about how to sort of ease into that because you're not going to say, don't let your past influence your future and wave a magic wand and they're ready to trust people. Even once you point out that what happened in the past was largely not their fault or maybe not even their fault at all. They, they're still going to have difficulty not accepting responsibility and going everybody leaves me. So we'll talk about that addressing beliefs that formed as a result of these relationships, the past dysfunctional relationships. We can help people create a new understanding of events. Was mom or dad or caregiver really being rejecting? Were you being abandoned emotionally and physically because of you? Or because mom or dad just wasn't able to do what they needed to do to be a caregiver at that point in time. They were doing the best they could with the tools they had, but it wasn't enough to meet your needs. So we want to talk about alternate explanations for why parents caregivers may have behaved in that way. If you have a young child, well an adult now, but who was put up for adoption or abandoned by their caregivers at a young age. The young child was probably very confused because one, one moment their caregiver was there and the next moment they were in the system. So they were trying to figure out what did they do wrong? Why doesn't that person love me anymore? It must be me. Because children really can't see well, you know, mom is not able to function as a parent right now or dad is having difficulty coping. We want to help people better understand themselves and their reactions. So when they start getting this urge to just cut all ties and be like, you know what, fine. I'll take my ball and go home. No problem. What does that mean? There's a certain point in all relationships, in all healthy relationships that, you know, sometimes people have to distance themselves from one another because it's becoming dysfunctional. But for the most part, people in relationships will encounter hiccups, will encounter disagreements, but in healthy relationships they can work through them. In relationships with people who fear abandonment, there's going to be two extremes.  I don't care. The final thing we don't want to do is help make people more conscious of what they're doing so they can make healthy decisions in their current relationships. So when they get that urge to either comply or disengage, is that a healthy normative reaction right now or are you reacting out of your past experiences? The abandonment experience. In childhood, survival depends on caregivers. A four-year-old left alone for five days is not going to do so well.  You know, there's only so much that a child can do. An infant can't even get their own food. So survival depends on their caregivers and if their caregivers fail to meet those needs, there's high levels of anxiety. And I will refer regularly to caregivers who are emotionally unavailable and emotionally absent in addition to physically unavailable or absent. Because some parents, and I worked in the field of co-occurring disorders for over two decades, and some parents just, they are so overwhelmed and so paralyzed by life itself, they can't even attend to anything else that's going on. They're doing good just to be breathing. But if they have a child, then that child's needs are getting neglected. Fear of abandonment is a natural survival response. When your food source goes away, what happens? You start to freak the freak out. So this is normal. We look at this and say that that's natural.  They cry because they're afraid that mom or dad won't come back. And they're afraid of this new situation, this change. Securely attached children will adjust and then be happy to see mom or dad when they come back. But the point is there's that initial, oh crap, reaction. Meeting biological needs and safety are key triggers for anxiety at any age. So we're talking about housing. We're talking about safety. But thinking about Maslow's hierarchy, if somebody is not meeting the child's needs or if the person is not getting their needs met, then they may have high levels of anxiety. And I add to the safety concept, not only physical safety, but also emotional safety. People need to feel safe in their own heads and they need to be free from emotional abuse. When focused on survival, people can't focus elsewhere. So if they're not getting their physical needs met, guess what?  Are they going to work on relationship skills? No. They're focused on survival. They need to have those basic needs met. They need to have a certain sense of security. If they are in a situation that is dangerous physically, obviously, they're not going to be focusing on, how can I better myself when they're worried about somebody coming in and hurting them physically? Likewise, it's hard to focus on how can I better myself when everywhere they turn, they perceive someone telling us, you're not okay.  You're lazy. You're bad. You were the worst decision I ever made in my life. They can't focus on personal growth when all they're getting is these verbal beat-downs all the time. So people need to have acceptance. If they don't have acceptance, kind of the opposite of acceptance is abandonment. To kind of extremes again, we'll bring it back to the middle. Every stressful situation becomes a crisis in the insecurely attached child. Now you can go back and read Bulby's work on secure attachment and all that kind of stuff. Great reading, but for the short version of this presentation, remember that securely attached children feel anxiety when their parents leave, but then they can adjust and they're happy to see the parents return. Insecurely attached children feel a great amount of anxiety when their parents leave and are terrified that mom or dad won't come back. And then when mom or dad does come back, it's either very, very clingy or very, very rejecting. So with this child that's insecurely attached, it's just like one to a hundred as soon as something happens that they think they may be abandoned. You see this pattern again in adults who are still struggling with these abandonment issues. Those schema that they formed, and I'm getting a little ahead of myself. The schema that they form says if you let this person out of your site or if this person disagrees with you or if this person criticizes you, they're rejecting you and they're going to abandon you. So we want to check in with those cognitions and look for trying to make those thoughts a little bit more helpful. In infancy or early childhood, if caregivers were away for long periods of time because of work, because of military, if they were in jail, if they just chose to be away or if they passed away, children may experience some abandonment issues. Now, if the parents are away because of, a parent is away because of work or military or even jail, and the other parent can help the child work through it, there's much less drama, if you will. There's much less issue with abandonment issues in totality. Now, if it's whatever parent it is, if the father happened to be the one that went away, that person may have some residual issues with adult figures in their life that you need to deal with, but they may not. You know, I'm not saying that every child of a soldier or a service person is going to have abandonment issues. That's so not true. However, if the experiences, if the time apart was not handled in a way where the child felt secure, then it could have consequences that are going into present day. In early childhood, caregivers were inconsistently or unpredictably physically or emotionally present. So think about a parent who has major, recurrent major depressive disorder, addiction, or is just ill-equipped to deal with a child. When I was working at the treatment center in Florida, I had 14, 15, 16-year-old young women coming in and having babies. And, you know, what does a 14-year-old know about giving birth and raising a child? So it's not that they weren't necessarily trying. You know, they didn't have great role models raising them in most cases. And so they don't have anything to work with. They don't know how to be a parent. They've never been taught. So it's not always, I don't want to pathologize or make the parents look like bad people because I believe that people do the best they can with the tools they have at any given time. Parents don't choose to be sucky parents. Sometimes it happens, but I really don't believe they choose to. Anyhow, off my soapbox. In later childhood, as the child becomes elementary school, middle school age, if they're a poor family fit or they feel like they're the black sheep, they just don't have the same beliefs that the other people do. They don't seem to have the same interest that their family does. They may not feel accepted, especially if the family's going, no, that's wrong to believe and invalidating them. So going back to that psychological safety, if they're constantly being told their ideas are stupid, they're wrong. They have the wrong point of view. And they can feel very isolated.  And introduction of a new, less emotionally or physically safe caregiver can also lead to abandonment if the child feels like the biological caregiver chose a new spouse over him or her. See where I'm going with that. Because if this new person comes in and is less safe, is abusive in some way, emotionally, physically, sexually, it doesn't matter. The child is going to feel like they didn't have a voice. The child is going to feel like the biological caregiver didn't care and brought this other person in anyway, which leads to feelings of rejection and abandonment. So what are the reactions? Fight or flight? Whenever there's a threat, we fall back to fight or flight or freeze, but we'll talk about that. When there's a threat, our anxiety goes up. And we say, in the past, in these kinds of situations, if I fought, did I succeed? If so, then we've got fight. In the past, did I succeed? And if the answer is no, then the response is flee. Pretty simple. So anger towards someone who's unavailable. If they got angry and they felt like it got them some sort of acceptance from somewhere, that might be the prevailing reaction. Sadness when someone goes away, a sense of helplessness, this person just left me. Shame or self anger about feeling needy or about pushing someone away. Fears related to rejection and isolation. Nobody will ever love me. Loss of control or the unknown. Everybody always leaves. See how I'm using these extreme words again. And fear of failure. I can't maintain a relationship. Nobody wants to be with me because I'm not good enough. So the questions for clients in these situations, what caused these fears as a child? So when someone starts to have these fears about a relationship, if the relationship starts to get rocky. First question is, what is it that you're afraid of in this situation? If you stay together, what is it that you're afraid of? If this person leaves, what is it you're afraid of? And how likely is it that this person is going to leave based on whatever is going on right now? So let's get some objective evidence here. Another tool you can use is the challenging questions worksheet in cognitive processing therapy. If you Google it, challenging questions worksheet, CPT or cognitive processing therapy really helps people walk through the logic in some of their cognitions and identify some, you know, unhelpful distortions. So then after you figure out kind of what the fear is, then we say, what caused that as a child? In the past, when you felt like this, what caused that? And how was this reasonable or helpful? You know, in the past, when you felt like this and you reacted in anger, what was the outcome? And how was it helpful in some sort of way? You know, did it get somebody to pay attention to you? Did it get somebody to come comfort you? Okay. So we're identifying the function of the current behaviors. And then we want to say what causes these fears now? A lot of times it's the same or similar stuff. But we can say, how are these reactions now unhelpful? Because as independent, you know, adult type people, we can fend for ourselves. We can put food on the table, we can go to work, we can do, we can function independently. Whereas as a child, we couldn't, you know, there were just some barriers to that. Does that mean, again, that we should be live in isolation and say, well, I don't need anybody? No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is these fears that are overwhelming about abandonment that causes people to push others away or cling on, like, you know, whatever clings on. Are these reactions helpful in the present day? You know, do you still need to hold on to people like there's no tomorrow? Temperament, based on their temperament, children need different types and amounts of caregiver interaction. Some children are wide open and easily overstimulated. You know, my son was that way when he was born, well, to this very day. When he's awake, he is like the energizer bunny on methamphetamine and he's just going, going, going and talking and talking to himself and he needed a lot of structure. And he would get overstimulated easily, but we were able to help him figure out how to handle that instead of getting mad at him for what seemed to be acting out. We were able to help him channel and figure out when he needed to take a break. The introvert may not need as much one-on-one attention with the caregiver. They may need a comforting word here and there, but they may not need the amount of attention that an extrovert may need. An extrovert tends to need more interaction with parents, with family, with other people because they draw energy and they think while they talk and they think while they talk with other people. So they feel a lot more isolated if they are isolated. So we want to understand the person's temperament and how they may or may not have gotten their needs met, how they may have been told they were wrong and invalidated when they were younger and you can hear some of this is kind of going towards Linehan's DBT environment. But what we want to look at is what do you need now? How can we create an environment that's accepting and welcoming to you now? Based on their needs and caregivers reactions, children form schemas or core beliefs about the world and others. If they state their opinion and it's squashed or it's ridiculed, then they're going to form this core belief that it is not safe ever to share my opinions because I am always wrong. Now, we're talking about children here, but a lot of times and think back for yourself. There, I think most of us have at least some all or nothing dichotomous thoughts that come in every once in a while and, you know, we can catch them. If these dichotomies go unaddressed, the person starts feeling very lost and very abandoned because it's all or nothing. An important point about children under seven from 8 to 12 children are developing alternative cognitive skills. They're starting to be able to think abstractly. They're starting to be able to see the gray area and alternate explanations, but even, you know, during that period so zero to 12 children are having difficulty envisioning all the possibilities. So anything that happens before that we want to encourage them to look at the schemas that were formed and challenge them to examine whether they are currently accurate and helpful. Children think dichotomously when they're that young. It's all or nothing. It's good or bad. It's not kind of sort of something. It is what it is. I mean even think about thinking back to grades that we would get. It was satisfactory or unsatisfactory. There was no ABCDF when we were in elementary school. And I don't remember middle school. The, it was a dichotomous grading scale. You either did it or you didn't. Children are egocentric. So whatever happens, they say, what was it about me that made this happen? If mom's in a bad mood, what did I do?   Children are very egocentric. So you take all or nothing combined with all about me and you can see where we're creating the perfect storm. Children can only focus on one aspect at a time.  He was walking down the hall and he was in a bad mood. And I just, I knew I did something. And so we talked about that and I'm like, how do you know that? Because he had, he had an angry look on his face. Okay. What are some other possibilities? What else might have been going on with him at that point in time? And a lot of times we can brainstorm ideas about a call he just got or whether he just left a meeting that didn't go so well or who knows what else. In this day and time when we've got our cell phones and PDAs and everything, there are a lot of things that can trigger a mood besides just whoever you pass in the hallway. Children can't think about those other things that might have triggered the mood. They see somebody unhappy and they're like, I'm sorry. So we want to encourage as adults, we want to encourage them to say, all right, what are the other possibilities? And even as children, I try to work with my kids to encourage them to look at alternate reasons why somebody may be acting a certain way. Children can't think abstractly and consider those possible options. Even with kids is, you know, knee-high to a grasshopper. If you're in a situation and maybe in a store and somebody behaves not kindly to you, you can talk about that later with the kids and say, you know, that was kind of unpleasant to go through. What do you think might have caused that? And brainstorm three ideas. My favorite number's three. I don't know why. But brainstorm three ideas for alternate explanations for why that person may have been in an unpleasant mood. If children learn to do this when they're younger, it's a lot easier to transition to as adults. Schemas are a broad way of perceiving things based on memories, feelings and thoughts. Basically, it's our go-to perception of what something's going to be like. We have schemas about everything. If you go to church, you have a schema about what's going to happen. When you go to your mother's house, you have a schema about how mom's going to behave and what's going to happen. We form these. It's our brain's shortcut.  Been here before. It's probably going to be like XYZ. Unfortunately, sometimes things change. One of the things we see in addiction is treatment. As caregivers enter recovery and really get a hold on it and start working that new way of life and sobriety and all that stuff, old family members or family members still expect that old behavior. They have that schema that when Jane comes in, this is what's going to happen because they're remembering how she behaved and acted in her addictive self. So we want to help people identify their schemas and check them. Sometimes they're still accurate. Sometimes not so much. Schemas that trigger abandonment fears center around the self. Acceptability. Is this person going to like me, which is one of the reasons we do a lot of self esteem work in reducing abandonment fears, because we want to reduce the need for people to solicit external validation. We want them to say, I'm all that and a bag of chips and I would love to play with you. But if you don't want to play, I'm okay with that too. Loveability. If they were told they were unlovable, if they perceived they were unlovable, then in the present, they may fear isolation. They may fear that they're not lovable so they will try to do whatever they can. Or likewise, they will build a lead wall that is five feet thick all the way around them so nobody can hurt them. They may have fears about their own competence. Thinking back to Erickson, you never thought some of these theorists from the past would keep coming up even in current practice, but they do. If a child going through that period of industry versus inferiority, Erickson's stages of psychosocial development, and they felt like a failure all the time or they were never good enough, the parents never recognized their positive achievements, then they may question their own competence and feel like a failure. And if they feel like a failure, they may feel they may believe that nobody wants to be around them, so they will leave. So if I fail, they will leave. And fears may center around adaptability. Some people are not able to tolerate any loss of control. They're just like, they're holding on with a death grip to the relationship to anything that's going on and if it starts to go wonky, they are going to freak out. So we want to look at what does it mean if you're not in control of everything? What does it mean if you trust that this person is going to do the next right thing if you are doing the next right thing as well? Schemas that trigger abandonment fears can also center around others. If someone is rejecting distant, cold or unable to handle the person's needs, then the person may not feel acceptable. So if they are in relationships with people like this, then we need to look at is it you who's not acceptable or something else going on with that person that may be making them unable to deal with anybody else's stuff right now. The person may feel isolated if other people are absent, if people fail to keep promises, they may feel like nobody's ever there for them. Components, if other people are always critical, then the person will question their own competence. And if others are unpredictable, a lot of the time when people who have anxiety about abandonment, they come from situations where other people have not been predictable. Or if they were, they were unpredictably absent. And relationship of self to others, if they're afraid about their ability to relate with others, if they're afraid of rejection, if they're afraid that if they start to love, they will be rejected and then they will be isolated forever. If they're afraid of the unknown, and they just they want consistency more than anything. And as soon as consistency starts to waiver a little bit, because as we grow, things change. And people with abandonment issues don't like things to change because that's not predictable and that's not consistent. So they may have difficulty if one person starts to change what do they do. I see this a lot not saying that it's an abandonment issue necessarily, but when law enforcement officers retire, you know, because they can retire after 20 years. So they may start on a new career. And that causes a lot of change schedule changes they're not law enforcement anymore and the spouse sometimes has difficulty adjusting to it, as does the retired officer but controllability. If the person holds on to relationships and everything in their life with white knuckles, because they're so afraid if they let go of control, that they are going to disappear or disintegrate. Then if something seems like it's not in their control, it's going to be a catastrophe. So attachment styles secure if there's an emotionally available caregiver. The child will seek the caregiver for comfort and guess what, the caregiver will be there and will more often than not meet the need for comfort with the correct type of comfort. So hungry, cold, scared, kind of following the child's upset when the caregiver leaves especially in new situations but the child gets over it is not a child that's going to sit there and cry for eight hours. And then the child's happy when the caregiver returns. In this kind of attachment, the child learns to trust others will be responsive to their needs and validate their needs. The child learns to be self reliant and try new things. But if they fail, they know they can return to home base. They can go out and go, well, that didn't go as planned. And caregiver will be there to say, all right, let's figure out what to do next, not, you are such a failure. The child learns to adapt to a variety of situations, because when they've been faced with something that's a little scary, caregivers been there to kind of coach them on and go, you got this. It's scary. I got it. But you can do it. The child learns to deal with stress, because the caregivers there to coach them. Or to process it with them afterwards because the caregiver is not always physically there. But if you've got children, you know, sometimes they'll come home from school and they've had a really bad day. And you pull them aside and go, you know, what's going on? Let's talk about it. So in this way, the child learns to deal with stress. And the child learns to have accurate expectations of others. In the secure attachment, emotionally available situation, remember children are egocentric. So if mom's upset, the child goes, what did I do? Or, oh my gosh, I hope mom's not going to leave. In a secure situation, sometimes the parent has to say something like, mommy had a really bad day at work today. Nothing to do with you. I need to go take a time out. That helps the child understand that, you know what? It's not all about me. And I can understand that sometimes mom's upset for something besides me. And I can understand that if mom's upset, it doesn't mean she's going to leave. So obviously, this is the ideal situation. Avoidant attachment styles, the rejecting or harsh caregiver. The person depends less on the caregiver for security.  Can I come into bed with you? They're met with, go back to your own bed. And the caregiver rolls over.  Let me walk you back to your room. When the child is separated from the caregiver, there's little response. When the caregiver leaves or returns, because the kid's like, what use is that person to me? The child learns not to depend on the caregiver for comfort, connection, or security.   And I can see why you would develop some pretty strong defense mechanisms. The ambivalent relationship. The caregiver is inconsistent or, wow, can't talk. The caregiver is inconsistent or chaotic. This is really true in a lot of homes where there's at least one parent who is battling some sort of addiction or mental health issue. So the parent may or may not be available. You don't know what the good days are going to be. You don't know what the bad days are going to be. So the child may be anxious and afraid to try new things or explore, because they're like, things are going good right now. I don't want to topple the apple cart. Just going to sit here and ride it out. The child may be clingy and demanding, trying to elicit a response. Remembering negative attention is better than no attention at all. And the child is upset when the caregiver leaves, but also inconsolable when the caregiver returns. Because, you know, I was upset.  But I don't know when you're going to go away again and if you're going to come back. So it's this constant anxiety of abandonment. Core abandonment beliefs. All people leave. So we want to challenge that by identifying exceptions. Mistrust. People will hurt, reject, take advantage of me or just not be there when I need them. But that's true sometimes because people have their own stuff. So when this happens, let's look at whether it's happening all the time and or let's also look at what else might be going on with that person that caused them to hurt, reject, take advantage or not be there when you needed them. Emotional deprivation. I never get the love I need. Nobody understands me, cares about me or even ever tries to meet my needs. Hear how dramatic and extreme that is. So one of the things as clinicians we can we can do is say, if you are getting the love you needed, what would it look like? What would be different? What is it that you need that you're not getting? Because once we identify it, then we can create a plan to get it. But a lot of times other people don't understand or may not be able to interpret what you need. So let's help. Let's try to figure out how to make this happen. Nobody understands me. All right, let's talk about why that might be.  Sometimes with clients with abandonment beliefs, nobody understands me translates to I don't give anybody a chance and I cut them off as soon as they become confused and because they associate confusion with rejection. So we might talk about communication skills. We might work on what it is that people don't understand and how to better communicate that and where to find people who have similar interests. Nobody ever even tries to meet my needs. You know, here I would really look for exceptions, but I would also challenge the person and I would say, when do you meet your needs? What do you do to take care of yourself? Because a lot of times clients with abandonment beliefs are so freaked out and afraid of being abandoned that they're not taking care of themselves either. They're just living in this paralyzed going back to fight, flee or freeze. They're living in this paralyzed state of I want to be loved, but if I love, I'm going to get hurt and I don't know what to do. They don't even love themselves. So we want to start talking about if you had your best friend, you know, create this best friend persona. What would he or she say to you? What would he or she do right now? Let's try to help you understand yourself. Mindfulness exercises are really good here because a lot of times these clients don't understand themselves. They've got so much anxiety. They're so afraid and they don't know where it's coming from because a lot of it has been going on for so long. Defectiveness. If people knew me, they would reject me.  Why do you need everybody to like you? Why isn't it important that everybody likes you? And failure. I don't measure up and I'm not able to succeed. I usually pull out the obnoxious quote that if you haven't failed, you haven't tried. And we talk about what it means to get outside your comfort zone. And you're not going to be perfect at everything. You're not going to be Michael Phelps.   That definitely doesn't mean you're a failure at everything. So what things are you good at? What can you and have you succeeded at?  Not everybody does that. You, you know, raised a family. Not everybody does that. So we want to challenge all or nothing languages. We want to look for exceptions. And we want to look for in what ways can you provide yourself the validation so you don't fear abandonment. You don't need other people to tell you you're okay because guess what? You're telling yourself, I'm okay. And before I go on to unhelpful reactions, I do want to point out that if we tell people to tell themselves, you know, I'm okay. That sounds great. But if they don't believe it, if it's not supported with evidence, it's actually probably going to slow their growth because they're sitting there going, telling themselves, I'm okay. And in the back of their head going, no, you're not. So we need to get that internal critical voice to kind of hush up by providing the person with objective evidence of why they're okay, why they're good enough. And that's a slow process. It's not going to happen overnight. But encourage people to figure out why they believe what they believe, and then you can work from there. Okay, unhelpful reactions, fighting with someone, you don't want to leave me because so the person may engage in dominant sort of posturing behavior aggression hostility blaming and criticizing, trying to tear down the other person to say, you know what, I don't care.  Recognition seeking to get attention, validation or approval. So if they feel something's going wrong in a relationship, they may start trying to do something to gain recognition to prove that they're worthy of a relationship for what they do versus who they are. Manipulation and exploitation, seduction, lying, justifying, I did this because you made me. So sometimes, I mean, we all occasionally do things that aren't the nicest. People who fear abandonment have difficulty saying, you know what, I screwed up, and they're more likely to go, you made me do it. I wouldn't have done it if you would have X, Y and Z. People, again, who are who are worried a relationship is going to fall apart may also make excuses for other people's inappropriate behavior. It's like, you know, I really hate what this person does. But if I don't make excuses for it, if I condemn it, then this person is going to leave. In counseling, we can talk about the difference between loving a person and loving a person's behavior. You know, I love my kids to death. There is no question about that. But some of their behavior makes me want to climb a wall. I'm very clear to separate with them the difference between the behavior that I dislike and them, because, you know, like I said, I love them to pieces. And we want to help people start making this differentiation if they don't do it already. And clinging and chasing is the other fight reaction. Stalking, messaging somebody 47 times on Facebook in an hour. All these kinds of behaviors and even online bullying, those sorts of things can be fight reactions in response to feeling like there's a threat of abandonment. The fight is more of the I don't care if you leave. So the person will withdraw physically and emotionally, and maybe even numb themselves with some sort of addictive behavior, or distract themselves with something completely different, or find a new person. Just to prove that you know what, I didn't need you because I've got this new person now. Questions for clients about core beliefs, all people leave. Okay, so what does it look like if somebody's available to you if they don't abandon you, who in your past left you or was unavailable emotionally. Now a lot of these, I find it helpful for mental health and addiction clients to have them write an autobiography, because then we can go back and kind of review it and identify the core people at certain stages in a person's life. What did the person who left you do to make you feel rejected, rejected or abandoned in retrospect, you know, it was hard to see the different what was going on back then because you were a kid. In retrospect, what are the alternate explanations for why this may have happened. Was it really you, or was it more about them. Who in your past has been available to you emotionally. Most of the time people can point to one, maybe two people who have generally been there. It's unreasonable to expect someone to always be there. Who in your present is available to you emotionally, you know, maybe they've only been in your life for six months or a year, but they are available. Not really emotionally, because you know not everybody can be available physically all the time we've got jobs, kids, all that kind of stuff, but can you pick up the phone and call them or text them and say hey you know what, I'm really struggling right now. What do you do in your current relationships that causes people to leave. Do you push them away. If so how. What are your alternatives to pushing them away to cutting all ties and just saying fine be that way I wipe my hands of you. If you cling. How do you do this in what ways do you perceive yourself as being clingy, and what are some alternatives to holding on with all desperation. What do you do in your past. People will hurt reject or take advantage of me or just not be there when I need them. So again, what does it look like when somebody's or what does it feel like when someone is trustworthy and safe. Who in your past was untrustworthy or unsafe. What did they do that taught you this and what are alternate explanations who in your past has been trustworthy and safe, who in your present is available and trustworthy. It's self that is unsafe or dishonest. That's one of those tricky questions.  How does your distrust of other people, or even yourself impact your current relationships.  What could you do differently. What do you think you could do in order to start building trust, and what does it look like to build trust because trust doesn't just appear. It builds gradually emotional desperate deprivation I don't get the love I need nobody understands me. So again what does it look like when somebody understands you and meets your needs. Who in the past failed to meet your needs emotionally and how can you deal with that now. You know it may have been mom it may have been ex husband it may have been, you know who knows. How can you deal with it now yourself so you can put it to rest. Who in your past has understood you who in your present understands you. How can you start again better understanding yourself because it's hard for other people to understand us when we don't even understand our self. And what can you do to start getting your needs met. One of the things with starting to get your own needs met is to figure out what your needs are. And this is one of the exercises I have people do as a homework assignment. They keep track of what is it they want on a daily basis, keep a log and then let's talk about what common themes we're seeing. If people knew me they would reject me. Okay, so how do you know when you're accepted or acceptable to someone. Who in your past made made you feel defective are there alternate explanations and how can you silence those old tapes, because that person that statement stays as a heckler in the gallery. We need to hush the heckler. What can you do part of it could be talking back and saying you know what. I'm not going to listen or I don't have time for this right now. Who's been accepting and supportive who is in your life that's accepting and supportive and how can you start accepting yourself and being compassionate. So some compassion focused training mindfulness work to help people understand themselves and start being compassionate with their selves understanding their vulnerabilities and cutting themselves in slack. I don't measure up. I'm not able to succeed. Okay. That's pretty big success, you know what is what a success means success means different things to different people. So what does it look like to you to be successful. Let's kind of hammer that out what is it if you are successful, what would be different. What in your past has made you feel like a failure. What are some alternate ways of viewing it, such as a learning experience, or something I had to go through to grow or, you know, brainstorming alternate explanations for why people fail. I don't have a response to this. Sometimes I asked them to kind of take on a flip role and say pretend you're a parent and your child comes home, and they tried out for the football team and they didn't make the team, they failed. What are you going to tell them, what have you succeeded at doing in the past. What are you good at in the present. And we really want to pay attention to minimization here, because a lot of our clients are not good at identifying their strengths. What does being successful mean in terms of your relationship for others. Do you have to be successful in order to be loved and be in a good relationship. You know, obviously you're going to be successful in a relationship if you're, but do you have to be financially successful, powerful or whatever you define success as in order to be in healthy relationships. Who are three successful people you know and what makes them successful in your eyes. Does success equal happiness, you can do a whole group on that. And what do your kids need to do to be successful in life, you know, we want our kids to succeed we want our kids to be happy so what is it that I envision my child's life to be 1015 years from now. During relationships, the abandonner is unpredictable, unstable and unavailable. The abuse of relationship is untrustworthy and unsafe. The depriver depriving relationship, the person is detached or withholding. The devastator is always judgmental rejecting and critical. And the critic is critical and narcissistic usually a lot of times people replay their past to try to kind of get it right the second time. So we want to look at do you have a habit of getting into relationships with people who are not safe. We can also ask them how do you exhibit these behaviors, in what ways are these behaviors present your current relationships, and in what ways were these present in your primary caregiver relationships. Behavioral triggers abandonment and mistrust if somebody starts acting different, they change their behavior in some way, a person who fears abandonment goes. Well that's not good. If they're not getting constant reassurance, that's that external validation, it can trigger abandonment fears. So again, we want to work on internal validation, and why is it that you feel you need constant reassurance. The other person's relationships feel threatening. So work relationships, those sorts of things. The person who has abandonment issues won't want their significant other around other people. And they become hyper vigilant to rejection and disconnection. Even if it's just somebody going I had a really bad day. I need 20 minutes and going into the room and shutting the door, the person with abandonment issues will likely have a high level of anxiety. So I want to ask how these behaviors have threatened them in the past. What are alternate explanations for why this is happening with this person right now. And what would be a helpful reaction to these behaviors now. So this is happening. What would be a helpful reaction instead of assuming that the sky is going to fall. Defectiveness and failure. So if somebody is critical, if they have unexplained time apart, there's absent or inconsistent reassurance, or if the person tells them they're a failure. Or they fail at something. These could all be behavioral triggers. They could be like, I failed at something. I'm not getting reassurance. This relationship is fixed into end. Questions, how has this threatened you in the past alternate explanations and what would be a helpful reaction to this particular situation right now. Envisioning activity. What does a healthy relationship look like presence versus abandonment acceptance versus rejection. Emotional support versus emotional unavailability trustworthy versus untrustworthy and safe versus harmful. These are extremes.  There are going to be exceptions, you know, things are going to happen. So what is a healthy relationship look like and how do you deal with exceptions. If somebody's not always present. How can you create this relationship with yourself. That's a big one. And then how can you create this relationship with others. Mindfulness questions. What am I feeling. What's triggering it. Am I safe right now. And if not, what do I need to do. Is this bringing up something from the past. If so, how is this different. How am I different than I was when I was six or four. And how can I silence my inner critic. And finally, what would be a helpful reaction that would move me more toward my goals and toward a positive emotional experience. Summary core beliefs about the self and others are formed in early life. Due to children's lack of knowledge other experiences and primitive cognitive abilities. These core beliefs are often very dichotomous. These core beliefs can be formed around events or experiences outside of the conscious memory. Identifying and being mindful of abandonment triggers in the present can help people choose alternate more helpful ways of responding in the present. Insecure and love and love me don't leave me are two really excellent books. And there are Google previews if you want to look at them to see if it's something that you like, but they do take what we talked about in this presentation and expand upon it a whole bunch more. If you enjoy this podcast, please like and subscribe either in your podcast player or on YouTube. You can attend and participate in our live webinars with Dr. Snipes by subscribing at allCEUs.com slash counselor toolbox. This episode has been brought to you in part by allCEUs.com providing 24-7 multimedia continuing education and pre-certification training to counselors, therapists and nurses since 2006.


Everybody for a steer rip in at 20 22 top scrum baseball hobby 12 box full case number six random team style You can always find these results at latent sports cards calm. Thank you very much everybody for joining and good luck Let's see what we got There's Lincoln chat for the results and there's also a Lincoln chat for top scrum Baseball jumbo four box coming up in a bit Random team style last baseball break of the night. We probably have more baseball with Matt. I think it's tomorrow. Can you self-check that? Tomorrow morning with Matt usually does Mondays Finish that 10 case or he probably has the recap up you guys want to see the recap of it There were some big there's some big stuff hit even considering it was a 10 box or Matt did pull some very nice cards You guys hobby case hobby case number six and that's got a couple of random styles tomorrow Got prison real muto Phillies and the base Billy Castro Santiago refractor Yastremsky Giants Hmm I Pulled a white Park Red Rookie outside. I was like, hey Red Rookie ain't you'll take that every single time George Springer 87 design for Dolpo Castro Rookie Seth beer rookie base a new classics Peter Lonzo got refractor Rookie Ryan delayed Rockies Castellanos Heart of the city Joey Vado Curtis Terry Prism refractor Lance Lynn White Sox Refractor atopia for the Rockies Crannick Gavin sheets Mike Zanino base chrome auto rays Zanino chicken Zanino Zanino. Yes, sir. Also 87 design This is one the title did they did Reese Hoskins refractor Jake Myers Rookie base One professional team we haven't got a good aqua for the age dead Larry Numbered a 40 of 199 and even get it done. He doesn't have any other professional teams. I don't have a minor league. We have but Prism Bryce Harper Phillies Connor Wong Rookie Hard of the city Frity Freeman got a refractor Jackson we reads Rookie for the Brewers And a amber J Drew Ellis got a Luis Robert 87 design new classics one Soto Refractor Rookie Marlins Edward Cabrera Eli Morgan future stars Jordan Alvarez Be doubtful on a once Soto And the magenta for the Nationals nice color on the Soto there 382 of 399 Prism refractor Rookie Gavin sheets White Sox O'Neill cruise Rookie base card refractor Rookie O'Neill cruise. Nice. There you go Pittsburgh Nice card Brandella cruise so much cruise in that Blue refractor Rookie auto Dodgers beautiful color match Andre Jackson 81 of 150 wonder where super Yeah, I'm pretty cool. See Tyler Gilbert.  Oh, I probably just saw it was like Pervers pinstripe Christian Yelich. That's preposterous behavior. Yeah, although I don't that comment I don't even apply to the post. No It's almost making better Yeah, that's how Maybe want to buy more tops from Devers For doffo cash, that's a problem going through your old car like cards you have you're like, oh, I want to get more Maybe seven design George Springer Everyone's everyone gets that feeling going through their cars like man. These are cool. I should get more of these new classics one Soto a refractor of Miguel Cabrera Curtis Terry back it up Terry Reverse perverse Terry come on Cordero Patterson rookie prism steward fair trial Diamondbacks Brandon Marsh Muller, there's a rookie refractor pirates Rowan Z Contreras Bo Bischette Rookie auto angels read Detmer's base auto How do you feel about the design where like there's not a big white spot? It's just kind of like a little faded for the auto Mind it future stars Casey Meyers. I wonder if it's the first time they've ever done it like that Matt Olson and a Jake Meyers Yeah, you take away too much of the car with the with that like white space Gavin sheets rookie refractor rookie Dodgers Andre Jackson Mars new bar pinstriped Brandon Crawford really Castro Prism Marlins Brian Anderson Rookie refractor angels read deadmers It's happy. Oh, we got redemption. Oh, what do we got here? What do we got here? Come on big card Veteran autograph so base veteran autograph of Tyler Stevenson Reds You go with Cincinnati Andre Jackson 87 design are in auto refractor Zimmerman for the Nats Or if you had a good year Greenwave Dylan Carlson Cardinals Nice color St. Louis. That's number 69 of 99 Conor one rookie base Chase of the prime in this President Tristan Mackenzie Cleveland or the Player that most resembles a stick figure a fever factor pirate Zach Thompson Six five or six six he's like 160 Gavin sheets Louise Robert Eli Morgan new classics Elohim and as White Sox Got a refractor rookie Astros Jake Meyers and a Vidal Bruhan Lars new bar that is a heart of the city with Merrifield and our pools Well, my fear said yeah, but here's our fantasy. You're probably pretty happy prism Kyle Lewis Mariners Which is getting blown out refractor Brandon Belts and what airfield all right box three See me square 80 points when I see me do it again Rich is on the which is watching a video speed running fantasy football week, too Prism rookie Pirates Max Krannick Ryan blade. I want to watch somebody speed run breath of the wild There's such thing actually refractor Yankees Aaron judge Jake burger rookie you got Jose Brie 87 design New classics Boba Shet blue jays a refractor of Chris sale and a base of Chris sale The sign Christopher Allen sale heart of the city diners Max Muncie Seth beer rookie Prism Matt Manning Tigers Springer Niko Horner Cubs refractor There's a base rookie auto for the Brewers Miguel Sanchez Brew Crews to her fairchild how Raleigh base rookie Joey Votto First big number of the day Refractor rookie Mets Tyler McGill or tight Tyler McGill Dude chat just left Blueway rookie Royals color match Jackson co are Numbered 42 of 75 That doesn't like hanging this Prism refractor Kevin Galsman blue jays Part of the city white socks Tim Anderson refractor Brian Anderson Anderson back mr. Anderson Son T young you got red socks Alex for do go magenta speckled a 350 311 350 wonder about you do go listen to 311 Wonder Franco 87 design rookie Tampa Bay Jackson Reets. Yeah, right Mike. Yeah, right Sure, they are Mike with your Costco peanut butter New classics Latte junior blue J's refractor rookie D-vax to her fairchild garden hose in one hand peanut butter in the other He's got a five gallon bucket of peanut butter Future stars Luis Garcia You know like restaurants where there's like a giant like a giant mayo jar and I want to find a peanut butter jar that big Prism for the red Jesse winker I Refractor Anthony Rizzo Yankees Rookie refractor auto Orioles Marcos Diplom number to 441 to 499 Matt Manning Chronic got a Shohei Otani 87 design for the Angels Bar Devers refractor Jacob to Grom pin striped in a Sammy long Sammy All right, let's check spots here guys. We got Jumbo is probably getting close to full It's like that's seven now chronicles footballs at six to go the mixer is at 13 still Yeah spots kind of coming in here and there guys Seven to go on top strome jumbo for box number six Chas McCormick rookie prism refractor A's Matt Olson There's the link in chat for the four box jumbo coming up Randy was a random future stars a Refractor Nolan Aronato, whatever makes it easier for your garden hose water Shohei Otani 87 design or not sure his teammate Mike trout who is quietly like having one of the hottest weeks of his career He's gonna finish like second the American League and home runs and he was out for like like two months New classics Acunia for at the Lanza get refractor Michael Brantley Astros Yeah, it's a good idea Ashby Is the key is to the touchdown do what about cordial Patterson the best player on the Falcons prison white socks you won one caught up She's like one garbage time touchdown. I'm gonna be very nice Sharon Durand rookie base got refractor rookie type Astros Chas McCormick and base rookie Matt Veerling Connected from the outside of the living room. There you go. It's all you need what an expense What a worth it though got Giovanni moran rookie auto for the twins Cowboys gonna show this game way, aren't they? Hard of the city Cleveland Jose Ramirez 87 design rookie Gavin sheets white socks We got a wit mirror field Photo negative Royals Refractor Giants Chris Bryant Jackson co are green wave blue jays Kevin Gosman numbered 51 out of 99 blue jays Prison refractor rookie Phillies Matt Veerling Trying to think what's a what's a hot topic we can talk about right now refractor rookie pirates rolling to Contreras Our chat is probably there's probably like a hundred two a haters watching. I don't want to say anything. Oh Marcus Williams is better than Gerlin James. Oh Jake burger rookie Being the guy that plays with the team that allowed Six touchdowns for the air today. Yes, but 87 design Pete Alonzo man. It's not all Marcus Williams Some of it is New classics white socks Luis Robert refractor class a for the guardians rookie cup card Giants be giants are two and oh, okay Uh, uh, it's pinstripe jay martinez red Sox Yeah, Sean already came into chat earlier and gave us two cents Dolphins red Sox fan that guy is Uh prism rookie white Sox Gavin sheets That's not that bad the worst is in Connecticut. There's people that are freaking Giants and red Sox fans. Yeah, or like patriots Yankees. Like that makes no refractor krona worth Padres brandom marsh rookie base The red Sox Giants thing doesn't nuts nice rookie auto Cardinals Juan Yipez Base out of there st. Louis Future stars mount castle 87 design Miguel Cabrera and a catel marté Fractor John Gray rangers Five Go and tweet out the mixer. Sure There's spots rolling on that thing. Yeah guys 13 to go on that mixture last I checked Muller prism refractor rookie pirates max crannick Future stars casey mice got refractor barrios for the blue jays base pack tetmers jackson 87 design jesse winker new classics yard on alvarez astros refractor a beuler for the Dodgers We're there's a drew Ellis prism Astros carlos korea Mike you think the cowboys hang on here? Please Mike zack short refractor red Sox Xander Bogarts From I just remembering that from like his other top stuff. Oh neil cruise rookie base card pirates Jackson reeds base rookie auto brewers Reeds like some reeds crackers every now and then Say that There's some like some reeds beats Heart of the city josh hater christian yellow jd7 design reeds his cup refractor nat steven strassberg Devers Bay Scott purple refractor cardinals dylan carlson another numbered parallel here 85 out of 250 prism refractor cardinals john lester refractor cardinals nolan iron auto Think lester should be in the whole thing Probably not Really yeah yesterday. I was saying him and somebody like Unless we're talking about there's another name. He'll probably make it, but I don't think he should Got freddy freeman 87 design for atlanta. I think he should A little bias, but the consistency was there the longevity was there He ended two super long curses Yeah, we're not ended but part of teams I know he wasn't with the overlord box, but the cubs the cubs one is big new classic straight turn of dodgers His postseason accolades probably put him over the edge. I think yeah because he's like an ace when he was on but he was pretty much just like Pretty good for his whole career. Yeah But I think because he won two world series and he was like the pitcher for those teams. I think that's probably what does it But it won't be first bout in a way. No refractor josh hater I'm just pitching for like 15 years. He'll walk away rookie brewers erin ashby There was someone else that has like very similar that was like, yeah, they're probably well wainwright 43 of 199 It's just like Yeah, like I think you kind of look at like okay, these guys are Like really important to certain franchises and I don't know like eventually. I think they do. I don't know I don't know if they could vote it in. I don't know. Yeah brujan Interesting conversations. Oh, yeah refractor rookie braves kyle muller pinstrived blue jay's george springer And prism yordan alvarez astros on the box six Prism refractor philly's jt real muto future stars bobby dolbeck refractor adam frazier kyle tucker jersey otto nice hit astros 34 and 99 Heck yeah Game-worn jersey otto astros kyle tucker and josh low rookie barra 87 designed rookie duran for the red sox New classics white sox ilo hymen as refractor hosier amir as cleveland ashby prism rookie royals jackson collard Urias refractor tyler stevensson for cincy Just like gray rookie base otto red zelejo lopez heart of the city miguel cabrera Got 87 designed rookie brandom marsh for the tigers Did I say tigers brandom marsh our refractor marté for the Mets It's definitely angels brandom marsh in this purple speckle bobby dolbeck red sox Crawford behind a purple speckle 13 or 2 99 Shane bas got prism tyler glass now tampa bay Dan's beswanson chasmic cormac refractor max freed for the braves with a dimple on the max freed And joe ryan rookie Let's see. I'll send a deboxer wrapper for the mac for the brave spot here max fried 87 designed white sox tim anderson New classics raise randy rosa reyna refractor george springer blue jays Based rookie wander franco first wander of the break You got 87 actually that was the first base prism refractor reds jesse winker refractor mania for the a's Padres legends Rookie base otto tigers zack short and a riley adams Durand rookie future stars madrigal 87 to grom and jazz chism Louise heal refractor geoledo white sox Jose siri pinch striped pete lanzo Woodruff all right halfway through guys Three fresh taken forever trench x bots here six to go on top scrum jumbo two to go on chronicles 11 on select three box random teams eight on tiered random teams like football six box still uh at 13 on the mixture everybody which has eminence 2020 immaculate 2021 immaculate 2021 nt Some 2021 select 2021 prism 2018 contenders 2019 contenders 2020 xr 2020 xr another 2020 box new 2022 products like luminance and elite as well prism yellet for the brewers Random harsh so yeah a lot of good possibilities in the mixture tonight Cal rally mariners there Just starts kyle lewis refractor rookie for the pirates as rwanzi contraris bobeshet and again all of our weekly in season um The regular season mixtures will get you every spot purchases one spot into the end of the regular season promo Should give away break credit some sealed boxes and maybe some memorabilia as well 87 design george springer new classics vladimir guerrero junior blue jays refractor claus a guardians santian you got prism dodgers tray turner See a short print of the top strong short print. Oh, yeah rookie refractor duran for the red sox the only one that i own is a carlson rookie short print That's cool fractorado mariners mitch hannigan mariners 170 was at nine Yeah, oh no 170 of 499 a day we're dolpo kastro. I think it's 2015 Never buying top scroll and everyone's chasing chris bryan and that one thompson. Yeah, that's right part of the city Juan soto gnats 87 design matt olson That was one of the ones chasing chris bryan never did bullet chris bryan set the beer rookie refractor rookie yankees louise heal Curtis terry back it up terry gold wave rookie giant sammy long nice 32 out of 50 sand fran Congrats giants prism bobechette Like his card this year Yeah I like the devils cards too though. Yeah speaking of like personally Something that's gonna have more makes got a good one for the astros his auto gavin sheets rookie. You've got refractor brice harper fillies Yeah, the devils one Is that the one diving you're talking about? McCormick. Yeah, so cool lars new bar crannick Calnick you've got 87 design louise robert jake meyers rookie I'll be interested to see what like the abrams like a toples in our redemptions look like yeah new classics jordan alvarez astros refractor lance lin white socks koi park Got an adolis garcia 313 of 399 on the magenta rookie cup card there Rangers adolis garcia prism rookie dodgers andre jackson Amber jay or amber knee rookie refractor fillies luke williams I didn't know he was in this room Bryson's like a ninja rookie auto base ajalexie rangers Stealth more dude playing metal gear solid too much Ryan Hayes who's your sergeant on our rinado playing the hit man games that would have been done refractor white soxie loy jimenez Bigel brujan rookie That's got a pun. I only have eight now Dodgers maximancy pinstriped and moving on box number eight Apparently lands out for the season busy Yep, she's gonna have to have surgery rookie prism cardinals lars new bar Refractor angels anthony randone. That's pretty terrible. It was a seary Get some jimmy gruffler rookies trout 87 Stasmacormic new classics tautis for the Padres rookie refractor nationals riley adams part of the city whit marifield matt veerling rookie base card prism ashos alex bregman jake burger rookie rookie refractor brewers erin ashby base auto matt smart canna on the veteran chrome autograph Gavin sheets rookie 87 design white sox lorda scurriel jr. On the photo negative blue jays Braves refractor horris a lair aqua wave tyler stevensson since an addy 113 of 199 Lorna Robert always go, you know what the Lorna does speaks for the trees Good to say that every time a whole one Got prism mariner's bench handker and finally one time he goes, you know what the Lorna does I'm goes plays for the twins And he like lost I had him like at the reverse one Got him good he's unsuspecting because he had said it like every night for like weeks and weeks part of the city al-tube got refractor giants mike ishremski and a cashier rookie pirates 87 design polar pete new classics rafael devor's red sox refractor rookie rockies ryan vilaid future stars jonathan india rookie base brandon marsh prism ashos yordan alvarez Refractor gnats kbert ruiz Just five to go on the four box jumbo coming up in just a bit guys Rookie base autophilies luke williams jake meyers ricky base Seth beer 87 design tigers miguel cabrera and a brandon belt refractor brewers christian yellet pin striped angel shohei otani You sit up nine six on denver interesting All them denver fans Thought they were doing something, man. Oh, yeah Then they forgot they play in this indivision as the chiefs and chargers Odeo cruise rookie base for the pirates Prism refractor rangers adolas garcia and brindale the cruise rookie base refractor brewers ricky jackson reeds Tyler gilbert If you guys think you think bangles can come back here, they don't look very good today again Cowboys defense have been pretty solid this year They largely held the bucks into check but they're often sitting with the ball last week, so same friends, that's everything 87 design diran red sox rookie New classics dodgers trade turner refractor rookie marlins edward cabrera Part of the city philly's brice harper and connor wong rookie We obviously can't envision that this is something like this is gonna happen, but Prism refractor rej joey vato Fractor cubs wilson contraris aqua wave Astros auto kyle tucker another kyle tucker for you 169 of 199 Nice hits for the stroze josh low rookie base He's got to be a tie game. I think no, absolutely brandom marsh 87 designed rookie for the angels Fractor flair d cardinals Somehow jilber. I was gonna be a hero in the media die red sox greens and her bogarts Numbered 47 out of 99 browns and sealers next week. Hope they both lose Prism philly's alec bone not a tie. It's like just two losses Got new york art of the city mets P. Lonzo refractor kevin gaussman blue jays You know how they keep changing like the overtime rules? They should change it to where both teams lose Yeah No ties at all. Yeah, I would honestly be more okay with that than having ties I'd be more okay with both teams losing Tim anderson on the 87 design for the white sox. Yeah, just for the regular season, obviously. Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah, of course I obviously New classics tatsis for the Padres rookie refractor tigers matt manning Maidenhurst bangles legends falcons legends ravens legends future stars chrono worth To love a player in so many cities He's already like 33 of that Jose siri rookie for the astros prism rookie Dodgers andre jackson and joe ryan He was pretty old He's like 26 in the draught of them. Yeah preposterous refractor raised tim meadows or awesome.  I just thought it's in meadows rookie auto oriel spencer wattkins not numbered That would be so good That would be his peak cinema. It's all been downhill since Jacob de graham 87 design. Yeah, cinema really jumped the sharp refractor rookie royals emmanuel revera in a wander rookie base Gil got a cunha on the pinstriped All right, a few more here box 10 Guys excited for gold standard this week chronicles two pretty fun releases for basketball and football there prison rookie braves kyle muller Get some uh Picket rpa's Some like london olave future stars mys refractor henniger for the mariners Is it chronicles? It's not draught is it? No chronicles basketball regular Clicking some nice sets for the basketball rookies too Jesse winker 87 design Yeah, it's true The new classics want soto nationals.  He's gonna do it again this year, isn't he? He's going He just had another big game because 170 to touchdown like he's just gonna keep doing that. Yeah, uh prison rookie angels brandon marsh Good get get rid of in there and tell him his number one priority is to get the ball the quarter-real paterson you want to win games quarter-el paterson It's a quarter-real or quarter-derral It's either honestly, it's whatever whatever you're feeling refractor dbecks pave and smith because it's got two rs Yeah, but the the lle is also like an l. You know what I mean? Yeah, mitch henniger based on over the mariners now vet chrome auto Falcon's already a good team with him in london. Yeah a heart of the city hater Yellage those these cards run together The hater and the yellow The heart of the city hater Gavin sheets rookie white socks refractor kirolof twins As far as new ball we got an orange wave No, we already had the auto on this side Robbie grossman tigers a little off color match the secondary color match 17 to 25 orange wave tigers That's a gross man right there Prism metts max scherzer Yeah, matt pulled uh, I think he pulled one. I think kenzie pulled one on release day two but matt pulled one in the um 10 case a rookie refractor marlin zack pop Horizontal on his auto 87 design mv free New classics illa Jimenez white socks refractor col calhoun rangers Such a good team such a good college team. Yeah Greater london pits paterson. Yeah The president lost in riley braves to be fair pits and london are probably pretty good. Yeah Patterson has been a good pro whole career Refractor and matt stephanick Neil just overdrafted as a redolp of kester. Yeah Honestly, one of the better players Yeah, from that draft over time. What was it 2013 or something? Yeah, it's like him and kelsey and there's a few others Yeah, hawkins Blue ray wave rookie auto braves spencer strider Congrats at lanza 58 of 150 you can bag this This comps look good Nice hit at lanza the likely nl rookie of the year. We'll get that bagged for you Nice card blue ray wave Josh cheson. We got vedal brujan 87 design rookie Tampa bay O'Neil cruise rookie base card pirates refractor schwerber redsox legend right there pinstriped guardians hosier amiris They're overrated randy. Yep. I mean they kind of were last year. They just got hot. Yeah, they got hot They were like a middling team. I was like hot and cold and then they got hot and went on a good run and I mean they played what their defense probably hit above their weight for a little while. Oh, yeah Like a solid a solid defense for sure like they're still a solid defense or They're not like gouging getting gouged by these not great offenses, but you know But yeah, they were like a good defense last last playoff season Prism rangers adullas garcia riley adams Mariner should make a playoffs right future stars carlson refractor max freed at lana Are you talking marriage? Yeah They should right it's like Um, it'd be like them blue jays rays, right guardians might be up there Guardians oils are there. Well, who's in the lead in the central 87 design of brady white socks. I think it's the other way around I've looked in a couple weeks New classics rafael devor's red socks. I better check because we're winding down here refractor george springer blue jays police heal Be cool to see the manners on playoffs. Yeah Presum willy cash trouts hikers are definitely good to at least Probably win a series Yeah, rookie refractor ashos hose siri I mean, what's uh robbie ray has been pretty good. Yeah, he's been good this year Like people saw those like blow-ups early on and there was like just a few and his era was like ballooned But he I outside of that he was like really good. No, yeah kyle tucker purple speckle auto astros. What is going on here, man? 199 to 299 It's the third kyle tucker auto of the case All numbered and there was even a jersey auto too here we go fourth and sixth for the bangles part of the city yankees air and judge 87 designed vato They have lands out for the year That sucks, man refractor rookie tampa bay shane boss That just sucks big burger purple refractor rookie ashos hose siri ashos have done very well 143 of 250 Congrats on the break Like they have like solid rookies and their their autos kind of hit fairly Often it seems like and then they have obviously ashos vets always kind of show up here in there Yeah, brantley brantley is in this. Yeah, brantley yordan is all over everything recently prism could tell marty diamondbacks Seth beer rookie refractor mitch hannigan mariners and steward fairchild diamondbacks Oh, they got the first down If I get a mix and touch on here, we're pretty happy actually terry magenta speckle rangers rookie Curtis terry 281 of 350 Put a reverse That's right, baby. Patriots beat the Steelers Beat him bad Wonder franco 87 design rookie Just exploded for 17 points this week and said there was a big offensive showing by mac jones and the boys Cal rally rookie for the mariners new classics jonathan to your reds. I mean More than doubled the previous week's output. So Bregman refractor astros First and goal get that mix and touchdown Come on now we'll uh Throw out to the flat. Joe mixon runs it in got ryan valade rickie base That was a push that was a push Yeah, of course, I didn't call it prism blue jays teosca hernandez Better thing for joe burrow to win. Come on. Oh, there he is.  We're so close In comes jp ryan.  What masterful play fall? refractor verlander astros Pinch striped Dodgers walker buehler. Oh, he's looking at him too They can touch them. All right, let's see it over time. I need some more uh mixing points Had the stats sold out All right baseball sold out tonight guys. It's only football left Only football chronicles is under one Prism yell it's ash or not astros. I keep I'm so you're saying astros Uh yell it's just a brewer if it doubt brujhan there Two points helps. Don't get it. Don't get it. Don't get it.  Oh, I should pee right Don't get it then great defense there. Wow Way to go cowboys man.  I'm not even gonna talk about it. Oh, no No, all they're gonna talk about is the lamar contract situation for two weeks. Lamar is like the best player in the league. Yeah Like both weeks combined Although we haven't seen josh alan play. That's true. That's true Let me just say let me just say that right away Because all all the bill the bill's mafia, dude They will just come after you if you are not in love with josh alan, they will come after you Prism Cleveland from mireas Dude goes from being like a mid cute a mid at best cubie for two years to all of a sudden just being amazing It's crazy refractor cedric mullins orials. I mean he is amazing. I'm not saying he's not just Never seen a jump in like play like that before From a quarterback Father McGill redemption come on. Let's see a monster hit veteran auto blue. Okay So the 150 of tyler stevenson, dude He's all over the place. You're reds on your autos 87 design white socks ricky gavin sheets trevor rogers That is a photo negative the photo negative backwards are kind of messing me up refractor lindor for the Mets I'm always thinking in short term Purple speckle on the trevor rogers Marlins 30 of 299 Last few hacks. Thanks everybody for filling this up. We got some jumbos after this And baseball is sold out tonight jaren durand rookie Prism refractor must go for the padres Heart of the city hosel to be probably just that and then probably just the mixer later Refractor tautis. Why I just I love when you go live on Jose siri I feel like I'm answering questions that like How how do I equate it here? Uh pita lanzo on the Mets 87 design It's like someone that has never been to like a restaurant before I like it like think of someone that just walked into like a restaurant where you wait to get seated They say yeah, like there's they've never done anything like that ever before. It's kind of like that New classics boba chef blue jays refractor rookie guardians. Ernie clements They walk in what is this What do you got? What do you guys serve here pizza? How much? The chest of cormac rookie future star They're walking around to other people's tables Oh prison for the braves Austin Riley someone's got like a silver roll is this for sale? No, I'm eating I'm gonna eat with that in a minute here a jake burger rookie That refractor ace jad lorry Oh, man That's funny. That's funny. Hoy park rookie auto for the pirates Hoy park. This should be the last auto with a break there Oh, man, what is this? Oh, this is like a restaurant. You dying here. Uh, mckelkebera 87 design Refractor white socks. Jose, abray you Last pack super fracter maybe Nope pinch striped yankees air and judge Yankees are one of the only pinch striped cards that makes sense. Yeah I'm pretty on vmax. That's nasty. Oh, dude. Those are so cool. Is the altar. Where's it going to the moon? Yep. Oh card's so nice I ripped like four or five last trying to pull any Or no two blasters and some e-tbs. I didn't pull any e-volution alters whatsoever, dude I've heartbroken. I I don't think I can do a of all these guys anymore ever again All right, I'll just have to win the lottery and uh buy singles.  It's not crazy expensive All right, we got uh recap here hoy park pirates ricky auto childer stevenson blue redemption reds marlins base paint and henry purple speckle astros kyle tucker 199 of 299 uh mariners base mitch hanager oriel spencer wattkins another kyle uh tucker here this uh apple wave this time 169 of 199 filly's base luke williams metz base mark canna rangers ajalexie mariners refractor mitch hanager numbered 170 of 499 tiger's rookie autosack short reds alejo Lopez jersey auto kyle tucker 34 of 99 Yep, this is game warm, but it doesn't have a specific game. It's from I think it's what it says Where's it say it? Yeah right here Yeah, it is game worn though Ash was crashing him with those those three cards in the break aqua wave rookie auto brewers erin ashby 43 of 199 A brewers rookie auto jackson reeds Cardinals wania pez nice hit Uh, Giovanni moran rookie auto twins rookie refractor auto or else marcos diplan 441 of 499 base brewers rookie auto miguel sanchez Veteran auto redemption and so base here tyler stevens and cincy Angels rookie auto reed detmer's blue color match dodgers rookie auto andre jackson numbered 81 of 150 A mike zanino chrome vet auto for the ray's non numbered and a blue ray wave rookie auto Uh, brave as a spencer strider nice hit there at land of 58 of 150 Good stuff, man. We've got jumbo breaks coming up next