Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE, covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its partner ecosystem. And welcome to our nation's capital. Here we are in Washington, D.C., theCUBE, coming live from the Walker Washington Convention Center here for AWS Public Sector Summit. It's our maiden voyage with the public sector. So looking forward to this. John Walsh and John Furrier, glad to have you along for the ride, John. This is a very good week.  Good couple of days. John Galvin joins us. He is the Vice President and General Manager of the Public Sector at Intel. And John, thank you for being with us here on theCUBE. Glad to have you. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. Yeah, tell us a little bit first off about your portfolio. Sure. I understand you cover not only the United States, but you have a global footprint as well. So touch base a little bit with our audience with what you're up to. Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, I have to put it in perspective for everyone. People know us as a microprocessor company. They don't always attribute us to going out and calling on government or education decision makers. So we really act as a trusted advisor. We don't sell directly to government or to education entities. And I have salespeople or account execs around the world who are going in and meeting with ministers of education or ministers of ICT. Sometimes it's a school superintendent or district superintendent. But overall, what we're talking about is digital transformation and how technology can be used to advance government or advance education. And that's sometimes at a national level, could be at a state level, it could be at a district level. Well, John and I were talking in our open segment just a little bit ago about maybe a glacial pace isn't fair to say about how government had that reputation obviously for many years about being maybe reluctant to embrace change. What do you see now in that space? Is there this shift going on that there's more of an embracing technology and a more entrepreneurial kind of spirit within the operation of government? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it is happening so quickly. The categorization of government moving slowly, absolutely true, education the same. But now wherever I go around the world, everyone's talking about transformation and they're starting to launch projects. That might be a pilot or a proof of concept, but they're getting started. The challenge is when you talk about digital transformation, it is so big. So it becomes difficult for governments to really get their hands around it of, what are they going to do to improve citizens' quality of life? Is that going to be a healthcare initiative? Is it going to be a transportation initiative? Sometimes it's an education initiative. And we're seeing them all. I think what is causing it to advance now though is they see proof points that it works. That by making those investments, it really is changing the quality of life for people. And in emerging markets, they don't have existing infrastructure that they have to tear out and replace. And some of the mature markets, it's how do you actually break down those silos?  Intel, in my opinion, I've been following Intel for many years. More recently, it's been pretty amazing. But you guys have always been a bellwether for trends, I'd say five to 10 years out. I mean, look at everything that Intel's done with technology. You have that five to 10 year stare instantly in what you're proposing. We've been seeing a lot of the AI commercials with Intel. What is the public sector trends that intersect with the vision of Intel? Yeah, well, you're absolutely right. I mean, if you look at what Intel does, we're similar to the auto industry. It takes us five to six years to produce our next processor. And so we have to be looking that far out of what are the use cases, and really what are those technological boundaries that we're going to either cross or break? And AI is absolutely the conversation today. It's around artificial intelligence, and it's no longer science fiction, right? We're not talking about it in the future. We're now talking about how can we use it today? Machine learning, big, big topic, and not just the role that Intel plays, but companies like AWS, big players in terms of how that actually comes to life in your home.  And the public sector landscape, I mean, for the folks that are watching or know the public sector, what is the public sector? Because it's not just government, it's education, it's health and human. So what's the layout? I mean, how do you categorically look at it? How should people think about public sector? Not just GovCloud, because there's a GovCloud, but is there a public sector cloud? I mean, how should people think about it? Yeah, that great question. I work as part of a group at Intel that are all verticals. There's a healthcare team, there's a transportation team, there's an energy team. Public sector is completely different because we're all of those things. We're working on transportation projects. We're working big healthcare projects. And so public sector, you have to look at in the biggest sense where it's not just a federal presence, but it is a state presence, it's a city presence or a county presence. And so our opportunity is to be able to connect all of those things. And that's what I think is so exciting about the transformation that's taking place right now is for that vision to be realized, those silos really need to be broken. You're going to hear comments over the next couple of days about forming a data lake, which is bringing in all of those data streams into a single spot so that you can apply analytics and be able to get to insights that we've never been able to get to before. So how did you do that then if you talk about municipal levels, state levels, federal levels, different operating systems, different processes, different procedures, but all great resources. Yeah. How do you pull all of that together and make that an asset instead of a morass? It's all right. Yeah, well, in that question, you just captured how big this opportunity is. And the way that we do it is we work with our ecosystem partners. The strength that Intel has when we enter into those conversations is we work with everyone. We work with the big cloud providers, we work with all the different operating system providers. We're not only working with the computer companies that are our partners and our customers, but we're working now with Internet of Thing companies. And so we have the ability to be able to now work across that ecosystem to start pulling all of those pieces together. The heart of your question though is that those are all different systems that have been built over time. And if you look at what's been happening in enterprise over the past 10 years is CIOs and CTOs and enterprise level have been breaking down those silos and moving more to single systems and big data streams. And now that's what's happening within the public sector is that data has to come together. So I talk about the collaboration between Intel and AWS and what that is going on with you guys. How you guys are working together and what's the impact in serving public sector customers? Yeah, well, we have had a great partnership with AWS from the beginning. We is going to take on this bigger vision is going to have a cloud discussion. There will still be things that they're going to be doing on-premise but it's most likely going to be a hybrid environment. And so with AWS, we really have the opportunity to have a bigger discussion where they can really have that cloud discussion and even some of the analytics layer, they're also doing more at an IoT perspective. We're able to join that conversation in terms of how our technology really plays into it. But I think the other thing we're able to do with AWS is really look for innovators. We're able to identify either those small companies or even some of the cities who are doing some really great things. And then because of their global footprint and our global footprint, we can share that pretty broadly. And the ecosystem is critical. You guys in child's always been an ecosystem friendly company. With that in mind, I got to ask you the question that's everyone's talking about. And certainly we were covering Mobile World Congress this year in Barcelona and you couldn't go anywhere without hearing 5G and these new phones that are coming out. And then under the hood, network transformation hearing about software defined networking, machine learning, AI, a lot of things that you guys are talking about. So the question for you is smart cities.  I mean here in DC, like other cities, they have bicycles people can take out and ride around. That's a smart city. That's a cool service. But now you bring digital onto it. Imagine Airbnb, you got Uber, you got Lyft, you got all kinds of new digital services, digital experiences. I mean this is a public sector issue. This is an interesting one. How is Intel's view on smart cities? How do you see that rolling out? First of all, we're very excited about what's happening within smart cities. And to the beginning of your question, we think 5G is going to be an accelerant. It's going to cause it to happen even faster than it's happening now. What's interesting about smart cities is that it really does take a lot of different formats. And so we see cities who are really focused on public security and safety. We have examples whether it's Singapore or London of how they're now capturing new data with the cameras that they've put up and can do real-time analytics on it using AI and machine learning. So that it's not just that they have all of these data streams, but they're doing real-time analysis of the data stream to be able to identify potential threats. But we also have examples where we're seeing cities invest in new technology to essentially replace what are the old ways of us being able to communicate and engage with the government. And that could be as simple as there's new information that's available to us. Or as they're collecting all of these data streams, they're making that data public and available for innovation. And so entrepreneurs now have the ability to also build solutions on those data streams. It's an incredibly exciting time. It's mind-boggling and just think about how we live our lives in our cities.  Imagine like, okay, imagine video chat. Is that going to go to the certain department? So how people engage? Which side of the street does the cars drive on? Who decides all that? And this is kind of how big this is. This is mind-blowing. Well, it is big and I'm going to answer that. In two ways. Yes, right? The way that we did things before is changing and it's changing rapidly. To your 911 reference, I don't know. Does it have to be a video engagement? Or through video, are we actually capturing real time that there's an incident that the fire department or an ambulance or police need to be dispatched where no phone call actually needs to be made? Real time and analytics. Predictive, prescriptive analytics can come to the table. Yeah, absolutely. And so we're already seeing examples of that. Where that's happening today. What we're not seeing yet is it's not happening at scale but I think we will see it happening at scale. All of those early adopters, they had figured out on their own. But now we have blueprints and we have frameworks that we can share with other cities where they will be able to do it much more quickly. All right, what project really stands out for you and all the things you're looking at in the public sector, because there's so much going on that you guys are doing. I mean props to Intel. Love the AI missions. It really puts a vision in place but also it's reality now with machine learning. What projects stand out for you that you see as real innovative? Collaborative between Intel and AWS. Yeah, so we did a project with AWS where we essentially created a competition for new ideas to be able to come forward. And out of that, what we've seen is some cities really doing some innovative things. Just taking those first steps. What that does for us is it gives us a broader view than we would be able to get on our own. But some of that's basic. So to say exciting stuff, we have exciting examples. The kiosks on the street corners in New York are an exciting example. What we see some of the universities doing I think is really exciting. Universities around the world have an issue with student retention where they just experience high dropout rates at the end of the freshman year in the end of the sophomore year. And the challenge is how do you identify a student at risk? Well, automate attendance and you can now see our students actually attending classes or are they skipping class? Start using sensors and beacons on the campus and you can actually detect what those student patterns are where you just might need to have a counselor step in or a professor step in and really sit down with them and walk them through it. Humans are things too, right? I mean, variables, they've got all kinds of sensors that could be anywhere on-person device too. Absolutely, we have been working with the University of Texas in Arlington exactly on that project. Through a sensor, you can actually capture the emotional state of a student and are they highly stressed and should that be, again, in an environment where... Explain, I mean, how does that work? Through body temperature and heart rate. So biometrics are being measured? Yeah. And with body temperature, respiration rates, all those kinds of things. Medical health is a huge issue in colleges and universities around the pressure. But you can see that, yeah, from a health perspective, you know, the strep throat, right? Sure. It's like the freshman plague. Every freshman gets strep throat. But if you can identify anxiety as it's being formulated, right, before it becomes a problem that manifests itself in academic performance. Exactly. You can treat that as a question. Sure, now you combine that with capturing data from the student cafeteria or dorms of whatever they're eating patterns, what are their sleeping patterns? Are they actually getting enough sleep? So you get a much more holistic view of the student and we have to be careful here, right? Because... With privacy concerns? Right, there's absolutely privacy and security concerns and anyone who engages in these projects heightened awareness of that. So it really is about quality of life and how do you create a better education experience? Not create anything that's threatening, but it becomes a much more personalized learning experience. The convergence or the confluence between IoT and cloud and processing power and software, it's interesting. I was looking on prior to the show coming in, I saw on your website at Intel Farmers in America and then on Amazon site, there was a city on the cloud. Can you take a minute and explain those projects? They're both Intel, I think Intel and AWS collaborations. Can you just take a minute to explain the city on the cloud and the farmers in America? What's the big aha there? Well, so it's a three-year project that we've been working on in collaboration with AWS and the whole idea was for us to be able to identify some innovative ideas within this space because it is still a new area. How do we essentially give some of these entrepreneurs and innovative people a chance to be able to bring their idea into fruition? And so agriculture and farmers in America is a great example because that data is being collected in terms of weather patterns and how they can now essentially access that data to be able to plan differently what they're doing as well as better enable them to share with others what they're finding as they, they're making changes. I mean, farm tech has been hot on the VC community certainly in Silicon Valley seeing people doing farm tech. Yeah. I mean, farm tech is one of those things. Agriculture is a huge area. It has health implications too, right? People are interested in automating a lot of things and bringing tech there. And then so you also healthcare is impacted too. One of the areas in major education but healthcare is another one that you guys are, what's the new thing in there that you guys are doing in healthcare? Yeah, I mean, we're doing actually quite a bit in healthcare around the world. And if you really think about it, the challenge with healthcare is that your records are typically with your doctor or with your hospital. They're not always shared and they don't move with you when you travel. And so the first opportunity is how does that data actually become standardized so that it actually can be shared? But the other opportunity in healthcare is for those CTOs and CIOs to start be using data very differently to understand the patterns of what's happening within their hospitals. And your earlier reference, John, to strep throat within a campus. How do you essentially start tracking that there's a trend and that there's something that you can potentially deal with much more quickly once you have the insights to it? All right, so take a minute as we end this segment here, I want to get your thoughts on. Give us a taste and showcase some of the Intel speeds and feeds, some of the tech. What's under the hood? What's coming out of Intel that's powering all this? Because remember, we're all driving these self-driving digital tooling out there. It's all powered by the Xeons and all kinds of cool stuff. What's the latest state of the art from Intel that you guys are bringing to the market in the public sector? Yeah, well, thank you for that question. I don't normally get it. John loves it. He's a speedy guy. We like to go on the road too much. We get sometimes too much feedback. Well, your earlier question was around AI and machine learning and for us, that's Xeon Phi. And if you look at the power of a Xeon Phi, it's essentially three times the tariff flops of the largest supercomputer that existed 20 years ago in a single processor. And so for us, this is an opportunity for us to again, really be able to advance and accelerate what's happening with artificial intelligence as well as machine learning. Well, it's an exciting new world. Obviously, with a realm that goes from healthcare to ag to education to government and Intel very much at the center of that. John, thanks for being with us. It was great to be here. Appreciate the time on theCUBE. Look forward to having you back. We'll continue our coverage live here from the AWS Public Sector Summit here on theCUBE. Back with more, just a bit.


What's going on guys? Got Kyle and Donnie here with Layton Sports Cards and we are ripping the Legacy Aluminance 4 box mixer number one random team style Did a randomized for the break had Taco K with the Eagles down to Bob F with the Colts Can always find those results on our website guys LaytonSportsCards.com. Good luck on this one. We'll start with legacy Got two of each Got a mini for the Beals Vaughn Miller number two 75 75 bronze mini Vaughn Miller Decade of Dominance Thysman. It's another mini under the lights Jordan Addison Vikings Got Mahomi Generations rookie Bryce Young Say Hinden Hooker on the rookie um rookie silver lions So under the lights silver a nice one. There's CJ Stroud Texans CJ Stroud Bijan rookie Joey Porter jr. I'm gonna say orange Zach Evans number two one ninety nine Rams rookie And Jalen Carter prize prospects the birds I thought that was a tear card. It's thick It is Sam LaPorte. It is a dual jersey auto for the Lions there Sam LaPorte on the uh rpa Nice one there lions number two two forty nine Got a Bijan under the lights going to the Falcons Green to 100 is going to be Jalen Hyatt giants rookie prize prospects Boutte and Tanner McKee Birds legend Tanner McKee got points 400 points will random to all at the end there guys on the points Random to all teams Quinton Johnston is going to be our chargers rookie prize prospects DeMarcus Ware Cowboys for the ages Say red Earl Campbell number two ninety nine And orange under the lights a flowers that one's Ravens Ravens to 149 CJ Stroud rookie for the ages Say blue number two fifty Tyree kill cheetah for the dolphins Got a buck kiss And that does it for box one box two Good luck here guys. This is the legacy of luminance four box mixer two of each here NT full guys Full up NT PYT appreciate that This one is a mini bronze number to 75 Marvin Mims Broncos rookie It's a silver Roquan Smith Ravens There's a Jackson Smith Seahawks rookie prize prospects There's a Hinden Hooker Lions rookie Blue is Joe Montana to 25 chiefs and it's Smith Cowboys Richardson rookie Silver Tyree kill under the lights um dolphins Not too bad thousand twenty four zero and Falcons Decative dominance Kraus number to 249 Vikings Warren sat There is number to 50 gonna be Miles Murphy Miles Murphy on the red auto Are you there miles Murphy to 50 and Mike Evans under the lights orange number to 149 I think bucks. That's right. I think bucks Charbonnet camp Smith say Archie Manning blast from the past Price young rookie. No, I'm thinking that's Sean Tucker. Yeah Miles Murphy, right Bangles bangles on that Miles Murphy auto to 50 I'm just thinking the wrong the wrong Clemson guy. There's a nice one there future patch autograph silver Jameer Gibbs. That'll be lions Nice sit there new rookie running back for the Lions Jameer Gibbs yellow scary Terry ah to 150 For the ages Tyreek two more packs of legacy then we got some luminance Let's do another one of these right after two guys The legacy of luminance mixer got a prize prospects. They flowers Ravens mean Joe Will Anderson Zach Evans There's a red. Uh, it's a 299 Hawkinson Vikings and Bijan for the Falcons under the lights No, righty guys got two boxes luminance now Good luck. Good luck. See if we can get boxes as good as Donnie's Oh, boy Bass vets Sean Clifford Rook, there's a uh, Jordan Addison rookie And tank big speed Jags rookie first one to 250 is Alvin Kamara. That was nice. Nice goal there. That's a sick-looking card for sure And this one is auto. It's a 350 Jalen Hyatt rookie auto giants Nice one there giants and a vestige is going to be Justin Herbert Vestige Herbert there chargers Donnie with cell cameras in yours Oh, so ken I had a luminosity luminosity myhomes and then a one-on-one vestige and Rogers Rogers there he is Yeah, okay. Yeah, you got a one-on-one of myhomes. It was solid and the crazy thing was it was the first pack Kincaid there's a Bijan rookie. Yeah, it wasn't the first pack. That's a good feeling It's a 200 and we got kindre Miller saints rookie there This one is Dalton Kincaid on the year one auto nice one there bills on the rookie um tight end Looking like a solid rookie as well My year one was a Quentin Johnston red and unforgettable Mike Evans the year one was solid too.  This is why I like this product so much. There's Jared golf. We're spencer There's a cj stroud rookie Texans rookie jamir gibbs lions rookie eric gray. This one is taijay spears the 175 titans This dude is fast. We were watching a replay yesterday me and donnie saw him Dude is fast taijay spears This one is miles murphy bangles on the rookie out of there Um red year one auto and this one is engaged. Micah parsons taken down joey b I might be can it might be in this product. I know uh stroud and Stroud and um young did not sign in here. So it might be taijay spears This one is breeze hall on the jersey uh to 50 bright beginnings. That's sick Bright beginnings breeze hall jersey to 50 And we got an animation I love you wish I got one of these but these are sweet. I'm not gonna animation go into the bangles It is jamar chase nice one there on the animation bangles These are sick looking man Nice hit there on the uh animation Very nice hit there for the bangles Behind that we had number to 25 davis allen rookie ramps Clayton two number to 75 rookie cardinals And oh no unforgettable channeler jones stiff arm and mac there number 200. That's a great picture. Oh, no Raiders there on the channeler jones Sorry mac. Alrighty guys box two. This is box number four of our mixer here Get another one going next Yeah, those are sweet looking randy for sure. They had the animations in dawn rus basketball Um, they were sweet looking as well Jordan, I don't know if it's classified as a case hit, but it's one of the ssp's of the there's a rich rookie products Yeah, I don't I'm the same way with dawn. I don't know if it's technically a case hit But I don't they're tougher to hit price young there when it comes to like carburet connection stuff I don't think it's labeled as a case tige and this one is another bill's auto number to 350 dalton kinkade Bill's there on the rookie auto um kinkade And a dynamic jamir gifts rookie lines There's bijan rookie base There is j jetta number to 250 Reaching out for that pylon And this one is brian branch going to be a lions rookie auto number 200 This dude's a beast out of bamma brian branch linebacker and we got jamar chase unforgettable I was like he's out of bounds It's a 50. We've got a vintage materials jersey brian urlacker for the bears That one is 49 out of 50 urlacker vintage materials Yeah, should have a little puka should definitely have a little bit of room to 150 hopkins d-hop Boots a rookie to 200 patriots and we got a cd lamb vestige number 200 last pack here Rushy rice we got roquan number 200 ravens And hendon hooker nice one there number 200 on the cubic auto That's a sick-looking design right there man lions. Yeah, it's kind of like an atomic almost nice hendon It looks like the cubic from uh revolution, but it looks even like better. Yeah, that's wow. That looks really good And dynamic on the back is cj strout nice one there, um Texans all righty guys. We'll do a quick hit recap then we got a random to do for 400 points. We'll random to all And nightbots. Uh, he's active for sure to 100. We got lions and hooker on the auto We had kincaid for the bills number to 250 auto Um, this one is to 100 brian branch another lions auto there Miles murphy going to the bangles on the red rookie year one Don't kincaid bills year one auto. We had jalen hyatt to 100 rookie giants. We had lions jamir gibbs Um, this one is miles murphy bangles Sam la port on the dual jersey for the lions And we had animation jamar chase Short print there Alrighty guys, let me roll a dice here. I'll set up a random and we'll see um, who gets these points. Good luck I'll go eight times on the random six and two and this is for 400 points We'll have all teams in here give me one second Alrighty guys. Good luck got all teams in here falcons down to cowboys Go eight times on it One two three four five six seven eight Cardinals bucks on the combo spot taking home that one Alrighty guys, that'll do it for the legacy of luminance four box mixer number one. We'll get number two going here in just a moment


This is the man in black here again to introduce columbia's program suspense Two of hollywood's most deaf players are with us tonight. This Geraldine Fitzgerald and Cedric Hardwick This Fitzgerald and Cedric are here to match wits in a suspenseful tale by John Dixon Carr called Will you walk into my parlor? If you've been with us on these Tuesday nights, you will know that suspense is compounded of mystery and suspicion dangerous adventure In this series are tales calculated to intrigue you to stir your nerves to offer you a precarious situation and then withhold the solution until the last possible moment and So with will you walk into my parlor and the performances of Geraldine Fitzgerald and so Cedric Hardwick We again hope to keep you in Just how far does any man trust his wife or his fiancee either for that matter? An English bazaar a garden party in the grounds of Layton Hall in Kent one fine summer afternoon before the war Layton Hall is the home of major in Mrs. Grant always ready in the cause of charity There's the stern red brick of the hall rising above oak trees Against green lawns of the stalls and the swings and the roundabouts and the coconut chives They are not well patronized now Because a summer storm is coming up and the wind is whipping at the tents flapping the gaudy banners in a fantastic manner And sending the spectators hurrying away in search of shelter But over in a far corner is the fortune teller's tent body in purple and gold yet with more than just a suggestion of mystery Beside it is a miniature shooting gallery presided over by major grand himself Near the center of this bizarre is the bandstand where the village musicians play lustily to keep the patronizers But as the wind rises it seems that only two of them are Oblivious to the coming storm for they are in love The young man is tall in sport coats and flannels the young lady in a flowing gown of a startling beauty Which suggests a halo a startling beauty that glows against the gray of the sky the paint of the tents She has her hand on his arm for protection Against what you ask Nothing just for protection. I want to get my fortune told before we leave Mary the wind I'm sure it's going to pour any minute. I won't take long. We'll beat the storm wait and see I hate to drag you away from the match, but I do want to visit him You don't believe in that rubbish. Do you marry? No, I don't suppose I do I never can resist getting my fortune told Oh, I suppose it's a woman's prerogative and they say this man is all very good They say it's marvelous how he can tell you all about yourself. You know that already, don't you? Darling, please don't be so unimaginative. All right, Mary. I'll be good Who is the fortune teller by the way, there's a sign on the 10th the great Omar Parmas than crystal-gala sees all knows all no I mean who is he in real life friend of the majors? Maybe the major could tell us there. He is now Please still we don't we don't have to go there. Do we go where to that shooting range of the majors?  It's right next to the fortune teller's 10th Mary and we can't insult our host Coming major look at the major.  I suppose he's heard about us Mary my very contrary one. You're not ashamed of being engaged to me. Oh, you know, it's nothing like that Phil I'm much too much in love with you only all the old cats in the village are probably saying awful things about me Now what the devil could they be saying about Oh, you young rascals you young so-and-so give me a hand each of you and many congratulations Thank you. Thank you very much major. We feel rather pleased about it ourselves Please I do and you young woman you come over here And then you have every one of us Britishers at your feet what you do But snary a fellow American when he's helpless and away from home And do I love being snares? Yes, oh girl. It looks as though you had your man where you wanted him Tell me your secret. Are you a demon in disguise? Please major ground. It's an awfully good design. There she is Please major, please Phil Is anything wrong? No nothing, but it's getting dark and the wind's rising. It's going to pour any minute now Oh a moment before you were the one who said not to worry. Oh that won't matter my girl The show's really over anyway. We did pretty well if I do say so myself We came over here really to see the fortune teller if you don't mind letting go my hand Not a bit of it.  Of course, what kind of a job you are. No, please now. Now. Here's a neat little model winchester 61 22 caliber. Yeah, right.  It Marry a dead What is going to get killed darling you just fire away and see if you can hit the target All right, if you insist I don't watch out Bullseye you fit the electric light in the room You're not supposed to aim at that Speaking of dying if that's her style of target shooting down if I'm not going to crawl out from under this counter and stand behind It isn't funny Phil. I'm sorry, but I can't go on with this. Here's the rifle Sorry Mary, but no that was going to affect you like this.  He'll only admit one at a time Well, why don't you go ahead darling?  You're a very lucky young fellow man I hope you realize that. Oh, I realize it. All right. I Am hope this fortune teller doesn't keep her in there very long Why the sky is getting black as pitch You're not careful this wind is going to blow all your tents into the next county All these tents are pretty securely peg young fellow. I think we can risk it. It's so dark that Wait a minute look there. Yeah, where? The fortune teller's tent He's got a light inside and you can see his shadow against the tanned it Like a shadow screen Looks it has Mary going in now. She's sitting down across the table from him I say young fellow you happen to know who the fortune teller really is no as a matter of fact I was going to ask you. Well, I'll take you little secret. He's a detective inspector from Scotland Yard What a detective inspector from Scotland Yard came down here on business for just half-browns or something So the chief constable and I asked him to do our be our fortune teller He's one of these glittering eye blokes and in a turban with brown paint on his face Does he know anything about promise? No Nobody knows a lot about human nature that my lad is inspector Brandon He's a specialist in poison cases. They say never forget surface wait a minute. Is anything wrong? What's he saying to Mary? Look at those shadows Mary's jumped up and back to wait He's pointing his finger at her now. She's backing out of the tent look major. He's following her. Can you hear what he's saying?  What was he saying to? saying to me Nothing at all really Only the usual thing about a happy life and a little young man's been running serious, and why were you so frightened? I Wasn't frightened. Oh, no Mary. I'm sorry. I saw your shadow on the wall of that tent and I heard you shrieking. I Think I'll go in and get my fortune told and see what all this is about Why not? I Felt a drop of rain on my head. It's going to pour down in a second. Hadn't we better run for the house? You go on up to the house Mary. Oh Phil. I don't want to be by myself All right, then dear there's the major here given this gun will you? I'll be with you in a moment. I'm gonna see that faker Washington Ella I come in Thank you Sit down in the chair opposite to me first. Tell me the date of your birth Then look at the crystal on the table in front of you. That's a minute inspector Brandon Do you mind if we drop the mumbo jumbo? Well as matter of fact, I'd like to drop it. It's been rid of a strain talking like Hamlet's ghost Well, what's on your mind? Maybe it's only the heat or my own nerves, but What were you saying to miss Sherwood miss miss who the young lady was just in here my fiancee? What's wrong? How did you jump like that? Do you say fiancee? Of course why not? I look here, mr. Oh, my name is Lester Philip blessed and what did you say her name is? Mary Sherwood Here, what's all this mystery? Tell me mr. Lester She lived here in the village for very long now all in about six months and how long you've been engaged to her believe me I have a reason for asking that How long have you been engaged? Well, you're weak tomorrow, but weak tomorrow She by any chance invites you to dinner at her house tomorrow night dinner has she Yes, as a matter of fact she has but I don't see you know who this Mary Sherwood really is No Well, I'll tell you she's Inspector Brandon Never stand with your shadow against light. You're hit. Yes, I let me I'm afraid it's dreadful rightful to hold all I did was touch the trigger by accident. I Hope I haven't hit anything In the quiet village of Sutton later that same night after the unfortunate accident that couldn't be helped a Rather white-faced young man Philip Lester slips down the road Horses in front of the door to the Ian starts to enter and then changes his mind He looks over his shoulder and then walks around the building being very careful to stay within its shadow He slips in through the side door and makes sure that no one sees him He makes his way quietly up the stairs to a darkened passageway outside the bedrooms Glances at the number on the first door and then hurries down the hall Stops in front of room Yes Inspector Brandon I thought Yes Sitting up and taking nourishment. Thank you Excuse me in fact of what I heard you were still unconscious and not expected to live Yes, that was the report of ours dr. Stiles to give out but why I had my reasons mr. Lester As you can see fortunately, I was the recipient of only a flesh wound across the left shoulder it it bled a little but not much Inspector poor Mary's nearly frantic.  Let me ring her up and stay away from my telephone why because Because I want to tell you a few things about miss Mary Sherwin The first place. She isn't a miss She's she's had three husbands already.  Three husbands and one fiance whom she didn't bother to marry First the fiance they made mutual wills in each other's favor Exactly a week after the engagement following dinner at her house. This fellow was taken ill He died before morning into tannic convulsion Spectre that's ridiculous Mary. Why she's so young and it is young perhaps but I don't believe it. Don't take my word for it I've sent thousand lambda London for file. You can see photographs and fingerprints. I still don't believe it and tell me mr.  Yes, I'm fairly well off. Have you and this woman made a will in each other's favor Mary wouldn't need to do that. She's got plenty of money in a collection of jewels worth I don't know how much I quite agree, but you haven't answered my question Have you made a will in each other's favor? Yes, who's just one of that yours or hers? I don't remember we started talking and agreed it would be a sensible idea But it took you a little limit. Are you wondered why it was necessary? A minute ago you were talking about photographs and fingerprints well Who don't mean Mary's been on trial she has been on trial three times Yes three times and under three different names, but she was acquitted. Yes because she had a cast down There you see wait He was acquitted simply because the prosecution couldn't show how the poison was administered


And we did see another big move, a tight end moving teams, TJ Hawkinson leaving the Detroit Lions, getting traded to the Minnesota Vikings. So JJ, how do you see this target share breaking down in Detroit now with one of their main targets leaving? Yeah, so they have Mitchell and Brock Wright as their tight ends who are gonna be elevated. You know, Wright's been the one, I think Brock Wright is who it is. He's been the one who has seen any routes basically this season.  But that being said, I think that the biggest winner is probably Amon Ross St. Brown. I mean, Amon Ross St. Brown plays the slot. Hawkinson obviously lines up there. We've seen ARSB just get peppered with looks, especially without TJ Hawkinson like we saw last year. But he's still getting peppered with looks even this year in games where he's been healthy. So I think that Amon Ross St. Brown has a chance to be in that like 28 to 30% target share per game range for the rest of the season. And if we see that, then we have a chance to see some fireworks down the stretch. I mean, it's a very, very big one for him in particular. And then, you know, Hawkinson going to Minnesota, they haven't targeted their tight ends at a really, really high rate, but targets go towards talent, right? So TJ Hawkinson is an upgrade over Irv Smith who they seem to not like that much even before this injury happened to Irv Smith. So I do think that Hawkinson, you know, will probably still command like an 18, 20% target share. Justin Jefferson probably remains the same. And maybe this hurts Adam Thielen a little bit from a target share standpoint, but it's probably more neutral for all those guys. And maybe a little bit of a boost for TJ Hawkinson just given the offenses he's moving to should be a little bit more efficient. So Amon Ross St. Brown, a big, big bump for him, I think. And TJ Hawkinson, I think it's a pretty good landing spot overall for him. That was going to be my question. Is this a bump up for TJ Hawkinson? Or is he going down a little bit lower because maybe there's more talent on the field around him as well.


Goal 13 are the Sustainable Development Goals, Climate Action, Explaining Some Ways to Fight Against Climate Change Meet Hailey. Hailey used to go camping all the time with her family when she was a little girl. She loved the beautiful scenery and would take pictures of the woodland creatures. After she graduated from college, she went back to the campsite to relive her childhood memories, but it was not the same. The plants were dead, the animals were missing, and the stream was dirty. Hailey learns that there was an increase in fires at the campsite and it completely changed the balance of the ecosystem over time. She does research on the issue and sees that her campsite has some of the same characteristics as many places that have been affected by climate change. She decides she's going to start doing her part to reduce her carbon footprint. Even though she is only one person, Hailey knows she can make an impact on the planet depending on how she lives her daily life. Small changes in Hailey's everyday life can have lasting impressions on the environment. She decides to let others in her area and around the world know how they can help fight climate change too. One of the ways Hailey decides that she is going to fight climate change is to stop driving her car as much. Now, Hailey walks, bikes, or uses public transportation, as not to add to the carbon dioxide already being emitted into the atmosphere. Hailey also changed her diet to help fight against global warming. By moving away from processed food and committing to a vegetarian diet, Hailey is reducing more greenhouse gases from entering the atmosphere than she is by walking and biking. Studies show that cutting meat, dairy, and eggs out of your diet reduces 50% more carbon emissions than driving a car. This is because of all the fuels burned in order to process our food. Hailey has also begun to raise awareness about the harmful changes that global warming does to our planet. She shares information on social media, goes to protests, and talks about the issue with people in her community. One person can start a chain reaction of change. Together, we can all do our part to make the world a better place.


Good afternoon one and all. I hope my voice is audible to all of you. Rinsit, am I audible? Yes sir, we can hear you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Good afternoon and pleasure to be the moderator for this session and your host. As has been the tradition that dark talks webinar series have been following, today also we are going to discuss about a very exciting, very important topic titled Orality, Memories from an Onomastic Perspective. And we are really happy to have with Dr. Tim Jinn, who is currently the head of the college, Dimakur. He has an extensive research in colonial and post-colonial NACA historiography as well as the perception on and representation of the early NACAs, indeed a very learned person. But before I request sir, I just want to share a poem that came in my mind and maybe that poem is about the memory and that was written by Belly. However, I would not read out the poem but just I want to let you understand that memories have its own life and what we can take away from the memories help us to understand the world around us. So today we are going to talk about the memories and that too from the oral traditions. So I request Dr. Tim Jinn Wapam to kindly take over the stage and please share your knowledge with us. Because from my point of view personally, this subject is totally new, the onomastic perspective.  So this is what we are going to discuss today. Thank you so much. Dr. Tim Jinn Wapam, please take your time. Thank you, Anirudha, for the introduction. I just wanted to show my face for a few seconds to let you know that this is me. As a tradition, I would like to take this honor to thank the organizers of Dot Talks to have me here and then share this work in progress. This is a humble work in progress. I should say that and I'll be really, really glad to have questions from here and so that I can improve on it. Now, before I begin sharing my screen, greetings from Unity College on behalf of Unity College to everyone. Thank you so much for joining this short talk. So I will begin my presentation and to save data, I'll be just closing off my video for a while. Can you see my screen? Yes, sir. Thank you so much. Okay, the topic is RLAT memories from an onomastic perspective and this is a work, like I say, this is a work in progress and actually this is a reworked version of paper, joint paper that was presented in an international seminar. The title was Onomastics and Memory, Revitalizing Naga Orality. It was presented in July 2020. It was a joint presentation along with this Dr. Lanukumla Louchar. She is the head of the department, Don Bosco College, and she is also the coordinator of this research sale. Now, when we talk about onomastics, like Professor Anirutawa was saying, the curiosity, it's very simple. Just the term is a bit complicated. Otherwise, the meaning is very simple. I'm very sure many of you will know what is onomastics, but then for students here, I would like to enlighten that it is a study of the history and the origin of proper names. So, we all have names, we have places that have names, and based on that, we have these subfields of onomastics, that is, anthroponomy and toponymy. Now, toponymy deals with the study of the origin of proper names of places, like for instance, I come from a village, means I belong to a village, a particular village. So, my village name is Learman. In Ao, Learman, Lear means it's gooseberry. So, it seems the place to be cleared when our forefathers started off the village happened under the gooseberry tree, and that is how the names start. Coming to anthroponomy, we have like, you know, the definition is obviously studies, okay, that it studies the names associated with individuals, the parental or the last names and nicknames. Just to give you a perspective, for instance, I think it was in March this year, around March 27th, if I'm not mistaken, twins were born in Chattiskar to a couple, and then these twins, the boy was named as COVID, okay, and the girl was named as Corona. It happened in Raipur, Chattiskar, yeah. So, it seems the parents were justifying, saying that they were facing several difficulties during the lockdown, and therefore, they decided that to, you know, to name these their kids as Corona and COVID to make this day memorable. Now, that brings in memory. In many cases, some names are specific, okay, to villages or clans, and sometimes renaming also happens due to some that might be related with, like, good, bad or significant events associated with the person, the family, the clan or even the village. So, if we go more into how names were considered here, especially in the Naga context, some names are also associated with, like, cases of inclusion or exclusion, right. So, the question is, what kind of choices are available to each case? Okay, what kinds of role do names play in this social life? This brings us to anthropology as an approach and a tool, because I, since it falls within onomastics, I decided that names will be an interesting topic to take up, so I am narrowing it down to anthropology. Of all that, for a society without indigenous, like the Naga's, orality is usually the primary medium for the preservation and transmission of knowledge. And it also, I think, relates to belief systems practices, okay, and that was passed down from generation to generation. While the Naga's were being written about when they did not know how to write also, while they were being written about during the colonial period also, this oral tradition still continued to be the integral tradition of the Naga's, and I think it is also relevant even to this day in many parts of Naga society. The transliteration of most of the Naga's oral tradition was done by these colonial writers like, you know, officials as well as Christian missionaries. And despite the fact that these, most of these records were usually laymen in character, okay, because most of them were laymen to history or ethnography, they were done with the best objective vigor. And for that reason, Naga history owes its survival to these records left by the colonial writers. Now, although many stories are recounted and, you know, transliterated at some point of time, I should say that even to this day, okay, most of these stories just form parts of souvenirs and commemorative books of various communities. And it never became a part of mainstream Naga history. Honestly, I should say this is one area where Naga historical research should focus on, especially when it comes to oral, going for oral studies, studies on orality. These bulk of scholarships that engage with the Naga past, okay, they have drawn a lot of inspiration from colonial transliterations, right, of the Naga oral tradition. It ranges from songs, odes, meets, legends. And however, most of these colonial and post-colonial works, they reflect only feigned traces of onomastic approach, because they were more towards the study of the culture, the practices and all right. So I believe that this study will definitely help us in reconstructing events, reconstructing timelines, or at least approximates. That's what I believe. And again, one more fact is that anthroponomy as a concept, okay, it exists in every society. Like I said earlier, only the term is complex, otherwise it is there with us. And for instance, like when we meet, when we usually meet people, we ask their names, and then sometimes we might just reply saying that is a very beautiful name. What does it mean? Right. And this will actually bring back memories. However, this was not done. We did not go beyond asking the meaning of the name. And then that is where things stop. So anthroponomy at a glance, when I look from a world perspective and from a micro Naga perspective, I should say that in any part of the world, in many parts of this world, we have set orthographic rules. Now, orthography is the art of writing words with proper letters. Okay. And then when a letter is changed, any variation in letter happens. Then there are changes in meanings. I'll just give you one example, means examples of maybe a few scholars who have done these onomastic studies in the Middle East, like Ranzadok or Luca Raponsek. They were looking into names that were occurring in Middle Eastern names. And interestingly, Joshua, the biblical name Joshua, they were trying to identify the names where this name actually originated. And then they were also trying to study whether the name Jobab, Jobab is also another biblical name, existed before the second century BC. And these study of names were very, very critical on these orthographic rules, because if they come across maybe inscriptions that have similar sounding names, but then the letters are different than the whole meaning of that particular word changes. However, in the Naga case, it is not like that. That is what I have found so far. Okay. It may deviate from the already existing or established onomastic studies elsewhere across the globe. Why is this so? Because Naga's by virtue of being people without generic script, indigenous script, we did not have any alphabetical limitations to the names, right? And then all these actually, the names that we are using actually are inherited from our colonial writers and observers. And later on, the first literary beliefs of the Naga also. So let us have a look at our Naga lexicography. That is one study that I want to focus on. Because before I come to my argument, I just want to give you, please clear this whole ground for my argument. So we can see that there are two dictionaries here. One was written in 1893 by Clark. And another is edited version by Ausenden. And it was released in 2019. There are variations in diacritical marks. That means the accents. However, the meanings do not usually change. So I'll just show you these variations in diacritical marks. See, for instance, we have this year according to the Aus year. And the upper one is Clark's own English, Naga English minus script, dictionary. You will see that the year is KVM with a dot below, right? And Buffalo, I am taking the case of Buffalo here. Buffalo was spelled as Z. But then we pronounce it, it was Chiang. And here in the Aroposa down here, you will see that year is now KVM with two dots above, right? And then Buffalo has now the letter J instead of Z. What I'm trying to say here is that while the names in other societies, which had written scripts, the meaning of these names changes based on the mere presence or absence of a particular letter. The absence of this autographic rule in case of the Nagas did not hamper the meaning of the names. And this is one instance that I'll be narrating now. I think I'll have to read out a story here. I want to read a story here. So the story goes like this. This is, by the way, a narrative given by Kim Lieba. He is the former village council chairman and a citizen of the German village, Japokung Range. Okay, this is under Mangulamba within Mogokchung district. His name was passed down his family as a memory of an event that happened more than four generations ago. According to Kim Lieba, his name is an honorific name that we call it as Narokum in Ao of Kim Lieba. Now Kim, according to the dictionary, it's no more there, but then according to our villagers, Kim means Allah. Now Allah is a term used to denote a slave. And then Lieba, not so significant, but then it is derived from the word Ali or Bai. So there is, I'm just giving you a clue of a story that I'm about to narrate now. Now here, I will just narrate one story, keep on narrating the story. Okay, just to give you a perspective of the timeline, the event happens during the generation of Samma Chiba. Please keep in mind, Kim Lieba down here is the present day person. He is still alive. And Samma Chiba is like his forefather. And I am just doing it from an ascending order. Of course, I'll bring it to an ascending order later on. The narrator, Kim Lieba's father was Temjen Kaba, whose father was Yonggung Lamba, and his father was Imti Nangbong, and whose father was again Yonggung Meren, and finally his father was Samma Chiba. Again, the narrator has, he is not very sure, but then he is saying that there are about five more generations preceding Samma Chiba, which he did not mention. And before I go into deep into the story again, I just want to give you a perspective of the time and space involved here. This is Learman village, and it is nearby Assam border, precisely towards Mariani. Now, if I give you another map, then it will make sense. This is like Learman that is pinned with a red one. And then there is another story, another place called Longchang, down here where the blue dot ends. So Learman happened to be the Konduit, or the place, the junction where trade between the plains of Assam and the villages near and far happened not at Learman, but at the trade route passed by Learman. And people from other villages used to pass by this Learman village to trade their crops, and then maybe buy or exchange essential items like salt, dry fish, okay, from the plains of Assam. It so happened that one fine day, a group of people from Longchang village that is located around 100 something kilometers, okay, as per our present day calculation, was passing by Learman after, you know, their trading was completed in the plains. A fellow traveler of this Longchang group, he has suddenly become very sick, and then they could not proceed further because this person was sick, and therefore the group requested shelter here, okay, and here for their companion from the villagers of Learman because they had stopped nearby. And the villagers of Learman also like took this as a part of, as their pride to actually host this sick person, okay, and therefore the group from Longchang, they kept their companion under the care of Learman village, and then they proceeded towards their village. However, unfortunately after this group left for Longchang, the person who was sick, he passed away. And it seems when this person passed away, and you know, villagers from Learman were not very sure when this, their other party from Longchang will come to take their companion, they decided that instead of letting the body rot, okay, they will actually perform a very honorable funeral, okay, and then that during that time the funeral was, it was not burial, by the way, it was, you know, the body was kept on a platform where, where, you know, the body was let to rot, or sometimes if you burn fire, then it will dry up, that is, that was a practice which was happening during that time. And when these people from Longchang arrived to take their companion back to their village, the, it was found out that, you know, the people from Learman has already means taken care of the funerary rights. However, when they heard that this person who was dead, was not accorded a decent funeral, now I'll tell you what happened. It seems at Learman there was a particular place where these dead bodies were kept at platforms, or anyone who died in the village, the body was kept at a particular place. However, this person who from Longchang who died was not kept there, but then his body was kept a bit far away from that location, and that is something which the Longchang villagers felt as an insult, okay, and they, they were so enraged, in fact, they were so enraged and therefore they demanded that this issue will be resolved only if the people of Learman compensated them with akang. Now akang is a term that is used for fine, okay, and the value was 30 follows and a specific number of bells we call it, it as Jangdong, okay, by the way, this, what we call bells were very, very expensive during that time. They considered it as, you know, form of currency or so, and then along with this portfolio and the number of bells, they should be accompanied by, you know, slaves, Allah, we call it as Allah, so failing which the people from Longchang would attack Learman. So that was the ultimatum given to the people of citizens of Learman, and in order to avoid conflict or in fact a general massacre because Learman is still a small village, by the way, the villagers of Learman undertook an emergency revenue collection. We even do that, even to this day, okay, we do a collection like our village union will collect some, you know, emergency fund, so that fund is known as Putishi, we still use that word Putishi, so that was an emergency revenue collection that we always do so that maybe in times of need for the villagers, we can use that fund collected from that revenue. So each household was supposed to contribute a share and the combined collection should be worth the value of the fund demanded by Longchang. So the villagers were able to collect the required number of the buffaloes and the bells, but there was one big problem, nobody was willing to go to Longchang as a slave, volunteer, okay, and those people who had slaves also, they were unwilling to part with their slaves. However, there was one person, Samajib, and he had two slaves at his causation, and it seems he sent one slave to Longchang accompanying the buffalo and the bells, and with this a possible bloodshed was avoided. Now this event, many of the villagers have forgotten and even us also, even me also, when I started to, you know, listen to this story, it was because even my grandfather did not narrate this story to me, but then the family of Kirimliba and, you know, means Samajib and the succeeding generations, they did not forget this. It was during this time that they decided that Samajib's contribution should be commemorated by bringing back as this event, memory of this event, to honor his name Kirimliba, and that is how this name came about. So in a way, Kirimliba is, if we look from an extended meaning, the slave has brought back the honor of the village or saved the village, that is how it can be translated, loosely translated. The story narrated by this Kirimliba, it brings back to life a period preceding the pre-Christian era also of the Nagas, and then even it touches those time when Christianity was about to actually set its foot in our village. To continue with Kirim's narration, I just want to like show you here that it was during Samajib's period when head hunting was somehow, it was not so prevalent, that is what was said by the narrator, and slavery was also practiced. Now, before I move on to the genealogy again, I just want to share something, a peculiar way in which Samajib came to own these slaves. Okay, it seems when villagers usually collected potisi or the revenue collection was done, sometimes some family were not so, not in a position to, you know, part maybe with, or they were not able to contribute also, and when this was, this happened, then usually rich people used to, or rich relatives used to, you know, pay on their behalf. So maybe there were some families who were not able to repay, I mean, pay this potisi, and then Samajib used to help them from time to time, but then now that has mounted, and then these people are unable to pay back, repay Samajib for what he has invested, it was very obvious that they had to part with their children, that is practice which was prevalent in our village. So Samajib came to own these two slaves whose faith was now at his discretion, okay, and the parents did not have any claim henceforth. Moving up, you will see that Samajib's son, Yongung Mren, he's time witnessed the coming of Clark's eventually Zili Babu, okay, it gives us idea of how swiftly things are developing in this small corner in Nagaland, right, and secondly, if I'm not mistaken, Zili Babu is also the first pastor of Mulungim sin, which was a new village created after Mulungimu. They parted ways from Mulungimu. So given this indication of Zili Babu's entry into Learman, we can have an approximate estimate, because Learman, it seems he entered Learman in 1885, that was clearly mentioned, and therefore his timeline was, I should say that his timeline is enabling us to establish an approximate time frame of when this thing was happening. So Yongung Mren's time, this effort to evangelize Learman happened, and then finally after 13 years, Imti Nangbong became one of the first Learman villagers to be baptized in 1898. And later on, you will of course not so significant, but then the question is, how then has a name enriched memory? So that is one thing that we need to ponder upon. Names are not mere functions of, you know, nomenclature, that's what I want to say here. See, if you look into, you know, the diagram that I have, I hope it doesn't confuse you also, but then I hope it makes sense to you. We are talking about Learman, okay, of course, Viya, please ignore that. It should be their trade with Assam Viya Learman. Right. We are talking about a memory which has many things intertwined. We have even between Longchang village and Learman village, we have idea about trade with Assam. You know, it's not only the Learman doing the trade, but then people from other parts of our country doing this trade with Assam to Learman, Viya Learman. Then we also have, you know, the approximate distance, the space that we are talking about, Longchang, which is about 100 kilometers away from Learman. So just with the mention of a name, we were able to come up with an analysis on this. Now, like I said earlier, names are not mere functions of nomenclature because the names of the peoples are products of system, I should say, a system of value system that reflects way of life of a given culture. It is very true, okay, that many Naga names may appear to sound very similar and very common because we know them routinely. But then it, like I said earlier again, you know, the name, asking the name, the meaning of the name, it stops there. There is no effort to actually interpret them. Therefore, for a historian, I think it becomes a very important, you know, source of inquiry, this onomastic study. We are trying to demonstrate that possibility of not only retracing a past and retrieving memories and events are happening, but there is a possibility to extract information of practices and traditions, right? Since most of the meanings cannot be found in the mind of the listener or maybe the, you know, even the speaker, because sometimes memories just vanish, okay? There is a need to extensively study, take up this onomastic exercise so that we don't lose a part of history that is intertwined with the names associated with those events, right? And although this is happening, yeah, this is like accepted that many Naga communities have been commemorating events in their best way possible. I have mentioned that earlier also, like through souvenirs and other forms of literature. I think it is perhaps the right time, it is perhaps the time, okay, to bring this onomastic tradition to mainstream academics. As we can see from this anthroponomic study, information we got from the story itself talks about genealogy firstly, then mobility because of the fact that, you know, people, usually people are moving from one place to another through trading, okay, mostly through trading. Then we also have a belief system. Now talking about belief system, I think I forgot to mention that, you know, there is a funny story associated with the way in which the baptism happened earlier, like I'll just go back. It was one of the first to be baptized in Learman. So it seems our forefathers, they were enemies and then when there was an agenda or proposal to baptize these few converts, the leaders had a meeting and then in that meeting we discussed that if somebody was put into the water and then, you know, his soul will be taken away, okay, and therefore from each clan only one person was sent to or this baptism that was, you know, a story that was narrated by, again, Uncle Kiram. Now, again, if we look from another perspective, we will see that we have tried to correlate and study also and validate the entries of Clark's dictionary where the term slave is mentioned as Allah. That means around 1800s, 80s also, it is an accepted fact that there was slavery that was happening in our region. And finally, we have like, you know, evidences of interactions with other communities, which I should say that is also somehow related with mobility that I have mentioned earlier. Now, just one request to everyone, this is a work in progress. And then I should say that this is not a new perspective. It is there. It is so common that we have actually, you know, ignored this. Okay, sometimes it becomes so common that we usually tend to ignore it. And therefore, this is not a new study, but then what we are trying to do is we want to attempt a re-study of, you know, oral traditions through this onomastic. With this, I would like to conclude my talk. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, sir, for your enlightening. All my answers, because this terminology has been really new to me. I learned a lot, or maybe, you know, I request you to recommend some books also for us, okay, to know more about this approach. Anyway, thank you so much, sir. Now, I open this platform for questions. Please go ahead, whatever is there in your mind, whatever questions are there, please go ahead, shoot, serve your answer. Thank you. Okay, my co-presenter, Dr. Lanukamla, Akamla Longchar, she is here. And I'm very sure I'll be really glad if she can also chip in when questions, if there are any questions. So thank you so much, Dr. Akam, in advance. Oh, that's, that's really wonderful. Wonderful. Thank you, sir. Sir, I want to ask this question. It would be purely from a methodological perspective, from research and analytical perspective. That is, what would be the limitations to this approach? Okay, this onomastic approach. Of course, I do understand what the kind of thesis that you are, you have been trying to put forward. But there must be some limitations. So during your research, of course, it's a work in progress. But normally, what kind of limitations does a researcher come across when he or she tried to implement this type of, you know, the methodology or approach, onomastic approach? Thank you, sir, for the question. It's a very, very, I should say, very important question that me and Dr. Akamla has tried to look into. I just want to come up with the strength first. Okay, the strength of this approach is that, like I said earlier, we do not have this, you know, study, which is limited to orthography. Orthography is the art of writing words with proper letters, right? And therefore, we Nagas, we do not have follow this orthographic rule. And therefore, it is advantageous for us. But since you are asking about the limitations, I should say that every approach has a particular limitation. And for this perspective, onomastic perspective, we are confined just trying to interpret the names and the events that is surrounding them. However, this is not the wholesome approach, because we have to take into consideration literary, I should say, works that are existing, and then very importantly, archaeological works, which, you know, can elaborate or bring out, at least verify the truth of this particular approach.  I'll just give you one example. There is a particular name that we are trying to look into, and then this name is actually, like, claimed by two villages. And these villages are very nearby, and one happened to be ours, and other happened to be another village, which I will not mention now, but then there is a name called Muya Thong Bang. And then, according to the Aos, Muya Thong Bang, the translation is like, you know, there was a time when there was warfare, conflict between some villages and some Sumi villages. And because this particular village was held by one of our people, the Narokom, or honorific name was taken, which says that, you know, they won over the Sumi in a battle. But it is contested, and therefore we are also trying to look into it whether it is feasible. Now we are lost in translation because of that. So we cannot now accurately identify whether it belongs to this village or that particular village. So these are some of the, you know, I should say limitations that will definitely happen. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Is there any other question from the participants? This topic is very interesting. I believe that many more questions might come. We have actually brought most of them, okay, because this is a work in progress. Yeah, of course. I got your point, sir. But this is very interesting.  I think this is our privilege, sir. And we are very thankful to you. Okay, let me ask you one more question. I don't know, maybe this question will have any validity or not. But let us use this on a domestic approach in comparative linguistic studies. Like for example, if I want to make a comparison, okay, I mean, I want to learn about the history from comparing the names, like I take one name from our community, and I take another name from Lothar or maybe some other community. Okay, so what do you think when it comes to the comparative analysis, comparative linguistic analysis, will this approach work? Will this approach help us to penetrate inside the deeply late chambers of the hidden history? What do you think of it? Thank you, sir. Actually, I should say that your question is the answer because this master study is more or less confined towards these linguistics. Of course, we have, you know, cases where phonetics is also involved, but then linguistics study was one very important aspect. And if I'm not mistaken, thanks to our administrator, Dr. Oren, we were discussing about a particular term. This term is called umlaut, and most of you might be knowing for those who are associated with linguistics. This is a German term, and they are trying to look into how sound changes or vowels are pronounced in a particular way. So, and I also gave an example of how these people, scholars, were trying to identify variations in letter changes in the Middle East and then trying to give a timeline saying that this person existed maybe around this time and not before this or after this. So, a linguistic angle is very much there. Now these days, what is happening is that it's not, see for historians like, you know, many historians, I think they will also agree with me that history is just, you know, borrowing ideas from all these disciplines, because most of the sources that I have referred for, you know, this presentation, it is very surprising to know that most of these are not historians. They are either linguists, they are sociologists, they are anthropologists, and even these archaeologists have come in. So, yeah, thank you so much. Good, good. Yeah, exactly. So, this is basically an interdisciplinary approach, and whenever we get into the jungle of interdisciplinary approaches, we learn a lot. That is very true. Any other question? Nisha? No one? Dr. Rime, you want to ask anything in the context of Malipur? Okay. All right. So, if there are no questions, then shall I conclude this program with the permission of all of you? Anyway, sir, Dr. Temujin, can you just tell us, I mean, since we have minutes in our head, can you just tell us that what motivated you actually to take up this research work? What was your motivation? I mean, what exactly you are trying to find it out, and how your finding will be beneficial to the faculty of history and, of course, to all of us? What is your vision and what was your motivation? Okay, thank you, sir. I should say that I would like to even, you know, respond on behalf of Dr. Lanukumla, who is here. We were discussing on how to look into new perspectives of coming up with analyzing Naga history. Honestly speaking, oral tradition, yes, it is there. But then oral tradition was more to do with stories that was passed down. But then in these stories, that interpretative part was not so there, means not there. Of course, it is there, but not so significant. And therefore, we decided that if we look into maybe names, for instance, then if we look into the interpretation and how these memories can actually bring back lots of other aspects of the social life, the cultural life, and, you know, the events that was happening around that particular juncture, then it will become a very, very important source to enrich oral, means study on this oral history of the Naga. So that was the motivation that we had, sir. And what about your vision? Pardon, sir? What about your vision, sir? Yes, this story is actually from my region, because since I am the one, I am asking you vision, vision of your research. The vision I am asking. Oh, yes, yes, the vision. See, to all the participants here, this is a call, means to all of you, this is an open project that we want to come up with. And then when we say open project, if in the Naga, means not only Naga, but then maybe in the Northeast, because we have a very rich collection of oral traditions, if we from the Northeast start off this onomastic collection, we can archive a lot of events and names associated with these events. And that becomes a very, very important source to actually strengthen oral history. Okay. So after implementing this approach, we come out with the data, right? But my question is that how are we going to validate that particular data? How are we going to validate the results? I mean, yes, whatever the outcome of an onomastic approach, data will come out definitely, but how are you going to validate that? And how are we going to examine that? Oh, yes, that's a very interesting question. Sir, to be very honest, we are, when we try to look into this particular name, Kim Libba, it was not only the narrator that we interviewed. We have interviewed many other people, elders, who has validated that, yes, this happened. And therefore, when I was concluding, I was saying that it is, you know, the time to actually collect these names and then interpret them before maybe our elders pass away. And then the meaning of these names will be lost forever. The memory associated with these names will be lost forever. And therefore, yes, the methodology so far is to validate it from maybe an existing person. See, I also shared about a problem on why we could not go ahead with our study on Moya Tongbang, because of the fact that it was not claimed by two villages, because these two villages are trying to validate a different version. Had it been a same version, we could have come up with this story also. So that is how we are trying to validate. But we are also, again, since archaeological sources as such is very scanty in this perspective, we are also trying to look into other colonial literature, means sources, means records to collaborate or to validate what actually happened during that particular timeline. So that is how we are trying to maybe come up with a chronology of events also based on the names. Okay. Thank you. Thank you so much. Rinsit, if you are there, can you share that feedback form? I'm not able to access my email man because of net issues. If possible, Rinsit, can you please share that feedback form so that our participants can share their valuable feedback also, and we can share the same feedback to our speaker as well. Rinsit, please, please do it. Dr. Temjan, thank you so much. I mean, you personally inspired me. Now, my mind is completely into whatever you have just shared with us.  I mean, you are not simply talking about something which is empty or which has the vacuum, but you are basically trying to create a possibility from where we can actually construct the past events. And that, I believe, would be a great contribution, would be a great service to our Naga society, and not only to the Naga society, but to all those societies who unfortunately does not have the written records of their past. On this juncture, I just wish to recall what Adolf Hitler once stated in his autobiography, Mein Kampf. He stated that those people who have forgotten the history cannot create history. Those who doesn't know their history cannot create history. So, we always talk about great Naga history, rich Naga history, but here on this juncture, at a very serious note, I want to ask you whether have we really tried to look into the past? Whether have we really tried to explore the past? There are mysteries. There are possibilities. Let us join hands together. Let us relieve the past. Let us work together so that past can show the light towards the glorious, constructive, and positive future. With these words, I thank Dr. Tenjan Wawa on behalf of Fetso College. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you so much. We will invite you once again, you and your partner in research. We will invite you once again to enlighten us more. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. And Rinseet, please share feedback form. If you are there, I am not able to access my email. Please thank you. I request all of you to kindly access to that feedback form, which my friend Rinseet has shared. And please share your constructive feedback. I am planning to share all the feedbacks with Dr. Tenjan. And this will also be helpful in his research also. Thank you so much. Thank you. And if anybody has any question about the research, sir can be personally contacted. He is an HOD of Unity College. His email will be shared on request. Sir, can I leave now? Sure. Sir, before your time. Please, please, please, sir. Thank you. I have to fill up this feedback form also. Dr. Aniruddha, do I fill this form again? No, no, no. Not you, sir. Not you. I will collect the feedback from the participants and I will share it with you after some time. Thank you. Thank you so much. And Dr. Rinneet is saluting your pioneering work. Let me just read it out the comments which are coming up. Let me see. Yes, Nisha said it was a great session. It is a very interesting topic and great idea, but a bit complicated for not having knowledge of the respective language, correct? Then Dr. Rinneet says saluting the pioneering work you have done, sir and madam. Absolutely. Yes, yes, yes. It is a pioneering work, indeed a pioneering work, sir. In whatever way we could contribute and help your work, we would be really glad because your work is going to be very beneficial to our people, to our society. Indeed. Thank you, sir. So with this, I'll take your leave. Have a lovely evening, everyone. Stay safe. Thank you. Bye. Take care, all of you. Thank you.


Can I just go? Okay. Welcome to Vakt Ki Avaaz Krishna. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here Swamigala. So we are going to be discussing your rather provocative but I think quite correct view of the Indian national anthem that it is a protest song. So let me start by asking you why did you decide to go to Tagore's original poem? The honest truth is I never knew that there was a larger poem in that song. That's the truth. So I had just finished delivering a lecture in Bangalore in memory of Anantamurthy and a young girl came to me and said, Mr. Krishna, don't you think there's a problem in the anthem? So I said, what? She said, why is there no mention of the northeast in the anthem? And I instinctively said, you have a good point to make and it's something we should think about. I remember coming back to Chennai and then having a chat with Gopal Krishna Gandhi and he said, you know, Tagore did not forget the northeast. And that's when he introduced me to that verse where he talks about the Purbo Udayogiri Bali, talking about the rising sun in the east. And that's when I started looking at the largest song, the song that has been abridged to become the anthem. And I was deeply moved, deeply, deeply moved by so many things he has said in that song, which we don't sing as part of the anthem because of various reasons. Anthem is, you know, it's a limited rendition. It has a timeline to it, et cetera. But, you know, the way this land is described, the way it's described as a place of multiple religions, multiple faiths, multiple characters. And it was also written at a time when he's asking people to awaken. He's telling people to basically realize that we are in difficult times. It is dark, it is troublesome, but awaken. And that really, really touched me deeply. And I felt that that was a moment when I had to start singing those parts of the anthem. And because that is a message, I think we all need to hear, not just for other people, for ourselves. So, would you sing some little bit of it for us? You know, not to go, perhaps, but to begin with some small part of it, and then we'll go to the rest a bit later. Thank you for that. So, I'm also stuck. You have also been singing Amar Janmobhoomi. Yes. So, you are actually musically engaging with the whole idea of nationalism. Yes. And you are also an exponent of a classical tradition, which also, you know, at least from the early part of the 20th century has been claimed as representing the national. Yes. And in some sense has been immutable. So, what I can see is that you have a very deep engagement with the question of the nation. You know, classical music on the one hand, but also in more recent times, you've been taking up these specific symbols in the Indian nation. So, would you like to say a little bit more? You know, nationalism is always problematic to me. The whole idea of the nation building exercise, irrespective of where it happens, is principally problematic because there is this idea of the belonging and the not belonging, the insider and the outsider. What is it that we cohesively bring together and call a nation? That is a very deeply, shall we say, knotted question, you know? So, what does it actually make us, what makes us Indian? What brings us together? What was the principles? What is the spirit that actually brings us together? Actually, a country like India becomes even more difficult because inherently the land is diverse, inherently the people are different 50 kilometers from where I live, or even the next street is extremely different in language, in accent, in dialect, in culture, in religion, in practices and ritual. I can just go on. So, what binds us together? What is it? Why are we Indian? Why do we belong together? And what keeps us together is a very grappling idea. And if you really think about it, that is where I think the idea of our constitution comes to a certain central position. The preamble of our constitution is what binds us. So, just imagine this. We are not bound by language. We are not bound by ritual. We are not bound by practice. We are not bound by having been born here. We are together in an embrace because we believe in a profound idea of humanity. That's the gift of our constitution. That's the gift of what we've given ourselves when we say we the people. And if you think of it in that fashion, then nationalism is truly a very profound idea. It's a spiritual idea. It's truly something profound, spiritual, rational. It's amazing. It brings together all words that we don't use in the same sentence. I'll call it as rational. I will call it as humanitarian, as spiritual, as possible. And it's extremely aesthetic, if I may say that too. And that's the idea of India. And I do believe that's the idea of India. Then Amar John Mo Bhoomi is not just about the place you were born, but it's about the place where the fragrance of the spirit pervades. It's the place where we feel a connection and we all feel a connection to the land. We all feel the connection to the trees. We feel a connection beyond human beings. We feel a connection in the smile. I mean, it has to be seen at a deeper emotional level. Somebody came and asked me actually this question. I said, why do you sing Amar John Bhoomi? Isn't it too literal a song? Isn't it too on your face kind of, you know, this is my land kind of a song? I said, no, it is not. It is about not that this is your land, but what is it that binds you to it? Why is that when you come back to your place, there is a smell. There's actually a smell. There's a smell. And there is that the faces, the people, the shops, the streets, the chatter, the noise, the discussions, the arguments. All that is the spirit. And to me, if that is the idea of nationalism, then Janagana Mana is the idea of this country. So a little bit more about why you call it a protest song? Yeah, I mean just the first three words of that song is for me the most magical part of the song. Janagana Mana. Jana is the people, so the individuals, their individual ideas, their individual perceptions, their dreams, their aspirations. Gana is the collectives. So you have the individual and you have the collectives. And you have Mana, Manas, the hearts and minds of the individuals and the collectives. That's such a politically path-breaking idea to put forward in a song which we have made our national anthem. And if you go on in that song, he traverses, of course, the geographical regions and there are many things you can discuss about it. But the whole song is about what is it that makes us who we are. And in many ways, every one of those ideas that Tagore gifted us through the song is being demolished, is being mutilated, shuffled upon, twisted right in front of our eyes as we speak today and it's been happening for a while. So you know a song, even if it's an anthem, is not stuck in the time of its creation. In fact, if it is stuck, it is worthless. It's absolutely worthless. Songs like any piece of art are timeless when they allow you to dream. When they trigger, they inspire you to think, to feel at the moment, in the moment when you encounter that piece of art. And the national anthem, Jana Ganamana, does that to me every time I sing it because it inspires me to think of this beautiful idea of India even beyond what the song maybe inherently or initially thought of putting forth. But isn't that the whole beautiful part that it's alive in your mind, in your heart, in my mind and my heart? And it's not alive because I stand up in a place and I sing it like a military rendition. It's dead when that happens. It's alive when we have this discussion. It is alive when we feel every word. And isn't that what we should be asking? The song is asking a question. The song is telling us, isn't this the India that we should be inhabiting? Isn't this the India that was discussed in the past? Isn't the India of today? Isn't this the India? Isn't this the base of India that we should think of for the future? Every one of us, the individual and the collectives. So it is a protest song because it challenges every parochial notion that exists in this country. In a way, like the preamble of the Constitution, it can remind us every day, if you listen to it carefully, of all the ugliness that exists within us. It reminds us of casteism. It reminds us of disempowering people. It reminds us of religious bigotry because it tells us this is the embrace that is a land. And a song that celebrates this possibility is protesting against everything that exists within and around us. And therefore, Janaganamana is definitely a protest song. And even more powerful in times like these, when these very ideas are being completely destroyed, even though many of us don't even seem to notice. Your interpretation of the national anthem, I think, is absolutely fascinating. I mean, not just your statement that it is a protest song, but the way in which you are defining the idea of protest itself. I mean, protest as creative, protest as constitutive of the nation in some sense. And that is what is being challenged, right? Yes. It's interesting that very soon after Tagore wrote the song, in fact, he was accused of pandering to the British. Correct. The term Adhinayak that he used, it was claimed that he was actually talking about the British as Adhinayak. Yes. He, of course, immediately countered. Correct. And so, from that interpretation to more recently, where anybody who did not sing the national anthem, you know, in the militaristic kind of way that you were talking about was immediately attacked as being anti-national. Yes.  So, in some sense, this actually brings out the creativity and the genius of someone like that word. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, for him, nationalism and internationalism went together. And similarly, for him, the nation was not just a territorial idea. So, by talking about this today, when questions of nationalism and, you know, people being branded as anti-national have reached really, really dangerous proportions. And, you know, there's so many people who are in jail. Correct. As anti-national, I think this is a very, very significant statement that you're making. So, and this is my last question to you. So, in some sense, how do you think music and nationalism go together from your own experience? Yeah. When you actually touched upon another thing in the last question, I didn't address it. The idea that the music that I've grown up listening to and I sing has also, you know, a way of being representative of what I would call an oppressive notion of the country. Embedded in marginalization of, shall we say, multiple ideas of cultures, and also representative of the fundamental casteist nature of our society. This is a fact. And, you know, in many ways, these elite, socially elite art forms, whether it was karnatic music or Hindustani music, became representative of India. And I must say that every government of India, and I stress every government of India, have pandered to this upper caste elite notion of Indian culture across the country and across the globe. And that's something we should keep in mind that even after independence, in spite of all that we said in the Constitution, we, culturally, we never realized that the dynamics and the aesthetic complexities that exist in the way we represent this country and what it does to multiple communities. So coming from an environment that sees itself as the sonic representation of an antiquity, that is, what, 2,000 years old or whatever they want to say, this is a stepping aside to a large extent, but I think it's important that it is done because that nationalism is a nationalism that has got us where we are today. Let's not forget that that's the nationalism that has got us where we are today. And that is the nationalism that is pushing us towards othering people of certain communities, othering the Dalit, othering the Muslims. And that's the nationalism that is heading us towards being authoritarian completely, like you said, framing words like urban naxal, which are just violent words that basically create fear. So from this country where we seem to be in fear, and that is also something that God speaks about, you're terrified, you're scared, you're petrified, but you have to awaken. And I think that is all the answer to that, like you said, is in the poet's words. And you know, meanings are, there are always pluralities in meanings. And I think the magic of great art is they keep emerging from that one piece of artwork.  So it is very relevant that we re-imagine these ideas, and it is important that protest is, so you just triggered me into asking, what does it mean to ask a question, right? Because protest is seen as asking a question, and it is. So by seeing Janagana, where am I asking a question? So I think you have to turn that idea of the question also on its head, and say question is not just demanding something or demanding introspection or demanding reflection or demanding rights, but question is also dreaming. We need, we need dreams, we need hopes, we need possibilities. And one of the things parochial societies and authoritarian governments do is they minimise your ability to dream. They shut down the creative spirit of possibility. And if we can, if we change our perception of Janagana Mana, nobody can stop us from dreaming of a variety of Indias. And I mean this in the most positive, most humanitarian, most equitable and fair manner. Thank you. That is such a wonderful way to put it. You know that to protest is to be able to dream. And I think the history of protest songs all over the world is actually about, you know, the power of the dream. Absolutely, absolutely. So thank you very much for joining us today. And we look forward to having you many more times on Vatkiyavas. Thank you.


You may be wondering, what exactly is Civic Mathematics? Civic Mathematics was designed to give students an idea of how math is interwoven into our society. Some of the topics that you may study include voting theory, apportionment, fair division, gerrymandering, matrices, and a little bit of graph theory as it relates to scheduling and shortest paths. Let's look at the types of problems that you may see. You may be asked to investigate how the power distribution of the European Union changed after Brexit, or how to evaluate the fairness of a redistricting plan. You may also investigate the mathematics of human trafficking or how to allocate power trucks after a natural disaster. What pieces of information are needed to solve this problem? Sometimes we evaluate claims made by the media. For example, in 2018, a New York Times article was published that explores the idea of expanding the House of Representatives from 435 seats to 593 seats. What methods can we use to evaluate this claim? You can also learn how to use Spurner's Lemma to figure out how to divide the rent using triangles. This problem was also published in the New York Times, and these are just to name a few. You may be wondering, how will you be assessed in this course? In this course you can expect a lot of collaboration and group work. You will be asked to complete modeling problems and projects with your group, as well as problem sets and some homework individually. I hope this gives you an idea about civic mathematics, and we hope to see you in the course soon.