It's academic, and it's theater. It's a place where they both meet. We have the audience, and classes, and boys out there. We actually have a good place to start. We have a good place to start. Samples of women sharing what it is that you do. Sharing how you do that. There's no way you can ignore that. You can come and sit and talk about it. There's no 22 hour break. You're not alone. And in the middle of the city a white relationship is there. I'm already crazy. The survival of the student doesn't have fun. It depends on you. So welcome everybody to the Martin's Series Theatre Centre here. The Graduate Centre Cuny on a Monday afternoon. And this year is Karen, whose book we honour. honour in a way her life and work for this theatre and I think it's documented in that book it's a great cause for celebration and yes and it's also for applause and we thought to have the two parts to the day of the celebration of her plays in time over time and in the afternoon we have a full reading and the account will say a little bit more about the evening at 6.30 we have a discussion but also exos from three other players you all will see in your printout and before I give the mic to Karen please do take out your cell phone I'll do the same so now let's see it should say silent off and it never rings in our readings it's really true so thank you for doing this the reading should be about an hour we have a little discussion afterwards the evening will be about 90 minutes and we have a reception here in the space and afterwards if so everybody's willing we go to a little bar around the corner but again really thank you for coming into celebrating honour and Karen's work and Karen thank you so much for having me thank you so much for coming distinguished audience great scholars writers friends who do designers photographers thank you so much so I just want to say this is a two hour play and we are reading excerpts from it I tried to tell a story that you can follow but there is much that is left out obviously we can talk about that afterwards but I think there is a well I think there's a story here first player first readings for a playwright are of course like watching your baby take a step so I count on you all to embrace my baby thank you so much it takes place inside the dome a hermetically sealed environment where the privileged remnants of society plus a few workers have taken shelter part two takes place in the clearing outside the dome where the denuded nature is struggling to come back in late fall and winter with 90 degree Fahrenheit heat and on a roll during a storm indicate part three takes place takes place in and around the clearing as a spring soaring temperatures approaches characters Michelle or Mick and obstetrician gynecologists played by Christian Clifford Eve a neuroscientist demoted to position of part-time lecture played by Caitlyn the seamal to not form a formerly a physician is a refugee from far away allowed into the to do labor and so that the radiation and so that the radiation concentration in his bones can be monitored and played by Paul Price hope up a renowned public intellectual a linguist and grandfather of Eve played by George Barton we will we will we will we will be reading selected scenes from parts one and three of the play scene one inside the sparsely furnished room of Eve and Michelle early morning from outside the sounds of marching feet shuffling perhaps a low morning song and loud speakers issuing incoherent menacing directors oh they have been judged absolutely I have to go to work the raids of exiles can arouse conflicting feelings relieved actually excess population grains limited resources after all it's not us they invented to the line passes your house the line will soon pass I've got petri dishes full of fetuses to diagnose the curey to turn the mandatory viable birth will be exiled women are wearing out Michelle takes a drink from an open wine bottle rick it's 7 a.m the drags from last night women are not wearing out of course not you are obedient still in fact I am weeping no you are not just wondering what was weeping when there was weeping oh open a new bottle somewhere wild things are growing levels of radiation and pollutant particles outside the dome remain lethal dream must have been Eve hands Michelle a piece of paper Michelle takes it and reads it intently during the following exchange we are on the mandatory list to conceive that is what you do in plant eggs into wounds I hope so very very true I'm glad yours is there a problem with that when looked at like this you mustn't you mustn't think of it as a demotion oh think again I love lecturing we're both quite on track Michelle quietly rips and then eats the pieces of paper you agree I do absolutely she takes a large drink to wash the payments down oh so darling please don't drink so much off to work both of us scene two Michelle in their room with a large goblet and an open bottle of red wine she takes a drink as Eve enters with Tanaka standing some distance behind her it's very good this coat around me I look at us a case amazing wine survived aged underground light full body tart with a lemony tang what a nice word that's just the chemical though let me taste she reaches inside Michelle's pocket takes her phone out and turns it off oh all of a sudden her womb ruptured 25 weeks I did not say a thing I pulled them out three fetuses more or less freemies more and more the brain is not fully developed still we have made great advances artificial wounds would terminate the issue eggs could be harvested in utero but problem the placenta to date is non replicable and women without wombs used wombs used a hot exile poof outside the dome women are weakening I saved them not her she bled out placenta goop I am richly rewarded for my work with coat de rose I like someone you make my darling hush you you here one come come yes it is is divine you know what we do to the motherless one do you know what we do to those born too soon to perform hush mick direct from the womb to your dining room very clever solution to the increasing food shortage mick we have no other electronic devices I'm nauseous all the time now I believe we should walk they walk out they return again from another entrance in mid conversation without the wine and they are standing on an empty street in the door they look around to make certain of being alone wouldn't be opened up theoretically actually if we did when we do on the cortex so the areas of the brain quickly naturally with minimal risk prenatally we repeat the evolutionary leap with improvement nevertheless it's a simple extension of existing cortical wiring like flicking a switch might have happened naturally all by itself the world of the evolutionary dice how did consciousness arise out of matter from a glob of flesh thought think of that looking down looking out looking in for the first time all else I believe you've considered but this and you can achieve this put together unify finally what might have been ripped disrupted hurt when the cortex extended itself might be reconnected as was intended the mind is the brain viewed from a distance from a distance it is possible to see home town uh where is he from you from where from far from here scent fled how did you get in they wish to measure the radiation content of my bones makes sense of course we won't know we're at gole bass nevertheless we shall try we will if you wish if not I will be implanting dinner food and stop it I haven't forgotten my past as one must I am grateful cheerful obedient illustrious one of us once positioned I work as a janitor now he bows and leaves he came to my lecture did I let a dangerous one slip is that why he came up I don't think so you asked where he was from you must have thought tastes just like chicken stop it please and we remember what chicken tastes radiation free puree is delicious running out something else and was there you were there where you couldn't see what I wanted to hear see I mean we were checking up we were coming too close to deciding now you needed to know so are you really Michelle who are you the woman who loves you your love a dangerous ball it could do it that way send me send you of course they could how would I know you did not say a dangerous word you could not have been there no you were in the hospital I was not spying on you my Charlie how could I think such a thing you are suggestible I immediately you doubted me well you sent me out so his feet he had offered you so I'm not convinced how could he think it a lot he's using their script they are onto us if they are they would send someone just like him scene six even Michelle at home Michelle is holding the soup bag that is actually filled with a sperm that's a not the past to Eve previously in scene five so what do you think my phone is off yours of course you vacuumed I did I've checked them out my quality are they his you have a crush on you yes they are healthy I can tell you that maybe not his mixed I did the check it's the best time for us curious how that works when they're in groups phases of the moon holding at us even though we can't see so they'd all be nursing together if one needed more milk if one mother didn't live it's pure somehow you do have a crush so do you don't get carried away we don't ask him anything where he's from he doesn't want to say well he's ready later on after a beep is heard we are happy here of course we are we're on the list we produce we reproduce they're done with us that's how it works weak womb substandard eggs nevertheless we are doing our duty gladly we need the best this morning two vials in dry ice we're on my desk for star variety for one zone it's only natural to one there is five stars after that suppose four stars is all right we accept we might have been asked to report did you ask for the privilege no you mentioned it I can't remember well you must have asked otherwise I must have they granted you which he refers to the suit back to not to give her earlier Michelle very visibly empties the two vials of official sperm onto the ground I'm honored in that a mark of respect I am useful yes I fertilize put in it pull them out I will fertilize yours I will too first I'm gonna steal your egg there were birds when there were eggs my mark my dog lovers said birds coated with oil drowned in the stew birds on the wing there's one love without birds we do poets wrote about birds if we had poems would we have birds we'd have plenty of legs my lark my dove but I'm gonna grab a handful that's what I think turns you on it does we are on the list it's allowed mandated in fact will you teach me how to do you can't could Tanaka harvested mine harvested took them out I love the sounds of what was I'll bring you to orgasm just before the egg is excited did Tanaka bring you to orgasm meh myself I did my lark my dove I'll put them into a dish show you how to insert a needle inside squirts and sperm watch them divide indeed there are a few simple adjustments to make in the healthy zygote before implantation oh implantation that's the sexy part extracation fertilization manipulation implantation additional manipulation in three months time you love your word I hate my work I implant fertilized eggs none of them take she's exiled outside the dome or she carries through your foreboard premature to be mashed into a blender please I spoil your romantic mood they used to eat birds ring their necks pluck them and pull them apart roast them on a spit scene eight several months have passed it is dark a door opens and empty examination I need a light flashlight comes on clean I know where things are you should be here there's the table look lie down Michelle please she lies down on the table laparoscopic okay we'll not hurt can you be quick let's talk as I work radiation resistance heat resistance to 135 degrees Fahrenheit ouch sorry no I mean that much it's November now it is 90 plus degrees outside the dome fast on their feet two or four they choose hands with opposable thumbs but front legs as well large water storage capacity herbivores on the boards when and if language can you see where the cortex might be yeah I can where is Eve thought connected to the gut brain I reinforce the vestigial empathy centers just here androgynous we both know dog Eve enters distress her shirt is blood Michelle gets off the table oh I'm late where are you hurt it's it's not her blood I'll break of hate all the time now started ranting on the street get the blank out of my dome go back to where you came from two pregnant women darker skinned his wife was exiled unable to conceive a man stepped between them young you can't talk to pregnant women like that calm yourself down pull down a knife don't belong to people like me lunged for them hey man stop stepped between slashed his throat ran fell into me on the ground on top if it had been you make you would have you would have stuck your finger in the right spot like a geyser it was blood spurting and he choking I I hope it was pressing I'm so sorry life is so cruel I said tell them I love him he said and died in my lap choked on the words tell everyone that I'm on tell your child that his bloody shirt all left them on the street and ran in his body mean that you were there for him it's all right my love no no it's his blood it should sit you're telling you we're wonderful brave but we haven't got time I slashed on the street the hate comes boiling up flooding up geyser it was between what's due the procedure darling yes on the table we've no time no no do you think that I might lose them women do shock in shock shock I don't want to lose them I need to tell them what he said tell your children I love you will not lose them I feel cramping let me put you on the table we need to fix a few things what what things we've talked this through so the ones inside inside you might prove proof we are not liable to control he was not geysers of hate are not enough tell everyone that I love them can you make that happen with a needle inside an egg we can optimize chances you nevertheless they will need us even so scene nine Opa sits in a large upholstered easy chair with a pile of journals newspapers magazines and books in his room he is immersed in reading Eve enters from behind his chair so he cannot see her sorry he looks up smiles puts down his papers pats his lap and makes room for the child to sit Eve remains standing behind she too smiles this little dialogue is as if the child Eve was sitting on his lap a story about the bad days when you were a boy but everyone was good there was no food there's no work but everyone was nice there was hope home he stared straight up he puts her hands over his eyes from behind the chair the night guard one of them is one of us she goes around the chair and takes his face in her hands hello Opa we thought you'd gone over to the why not mother did mother bought our way into the dome with her doomed marriage if that's what you mean I'm not very full of that's what you expect could you leave us like that she I know even then after those things that you said she wanted to see you I couldn't know but I was at work I was busy where hurt her so your house is always watched of course they needed to think I needed to convince them that yes she loved you she wanted to see you once before sure I know it was painful and cook I'm sorry I am so you are do you still walk Opa I can walk of course oh no it's all right we can sit she puts her hands under his arm to help him and gets up out of the chair but what about he looks around at everything they begin walking slowly with Eve holding his arm and he sees that she's pregnant look at you you are I am right whoever is right oh it's not done that way anymore your body's in sweat needles petri dishes oh is it always been you whatever you want to ask me to do you you've gone so long back now they let me work here undisturbed I can broadcast abroad there are still I know I know that's good she moves him toward the door some people somewhere listen to you there are people somewhere else your voice is not allowed in the door they let you say whatever you want oh the act of speaking hardly remains satisfying it clears my head oh the tapes might exist oh I anyway have a full set they allow me to speak for her sake think aloud I should say here's my latest non-broadcast virus for reception by no one life inside the dome is increasingly untenable we need not speak of the food the rumors of which everyone knows of what it contains more lethal though not to be remarked upon the the aquifer upon which the dome was built has all but run out this has not been made knowledge common knowledge as of yet purification of the same air is likewise no longer sustainable the population is being systematically reduced outbreaks of hate are on the rise life inside the dome for the privileged few is likely to cease long before but here I'm I'm here for you I'm not leaving you you are a neuroscientist I assume you are named authorities employed no lecturer merely oh you were more brilliant than that I always hated it when you and mother brilliant so what better than not sure enough brilliant for what you have always had your way with me I always thought you were a wise old owl watching over me who g who what what where are you that's not speak any more dearest opa let's just sit and be quiet let me rest a little bit he holds up opa's arm and walks with him out the door quietly shutting it behind part three scene 16 michelle is on a pallet bed very pregnant sits next to her we were in what we called dissenters prison as opposed to debtors I guess I have no idea of the official name but you were alone chained with not even water what about you here I am in bed we have no need we have no idea how many places like that might exist we were chained to the stone wall cold damp and grimy maybe maybe it was a former coma the exiles are trained to do such things to get food probably or to get back inside they're very sweet aren't they very sweet indeed tanaka and opa are in trance we're half-wavish they are nursing them now we found you on the floor in a diabetic coma now half are still inside but alive alive all of us first of all I never mind tell me no it's too much it's good for you to talk I'm interested too what happened to you yes well he was freezing cold we both began to think this is it we'll die chained to this wall and therefore quite naturally it seemed we began to sing every protest song that open oh he taught me the words we got rather silly drunk on the words the international and english french and opa knew some lines in russian oh he knew songs from what he called the spanish civil war it's quite strange but we began to feel connected to a lineage we stopped thinking about dying it felt more like like we were about to be swept up into large warm arms there were voices all around us harmonizing echoes bouncing off the cave walls why would you have to look forward to it really I thought soon all of this unpleasantness will be over I will be with my own kind and opa was ecstatic he began to talk to the people that he used to know he sat up straight a great smile on his face there were so many brave great people that opa saw on the other side it would be like going home you really think so I know it at all you were hallucinating in the state of such mortal fear your adorphins came to your rescue you can't actually oh yeah we experienced the exact same thing at the same time your mother no no no she didn't come around too bad I didn't even think of her then why I wonder didn't she come to party oh I did feel that way I I never even thought she never occurred to me mostly I was thrilled for opa I've never seen him as happy it was just it everything that he has fought for hi it's the sky when you die don't make fun why not because at the same time roughly give or take I had to experience the worst pains of my life we knew I would need a c-section as you will though not if I can help it you will do you see how how they are with their sharply proves and all I did not want them stuck in my birth canal I could operate on myself there would be a chance they would survive you would come or not but two of them would be out an animal would find them and raise them a wolf mother your endorphins likewise that was the story I told myself I also began to feel exhilarated there's no other word I grabbed hold of a very sharp scalpel you found you on the floor cut open one was cut one was stuck but both hand and face were visible they were breathing you were too barely I kind of lifted it out I was coming back away no don't you could have I would have reached inside sure you could have led to death my darling but they would have survived and I did so did you mm-hmm I used spider webs to storm the blood and gathered them from the woods there are spiders here weaving webs it felt criminal to rip them down but I could think of nothing else you know you would operate on your side I thought I might want to knock a left I arranged my things they worked the webs better than stitches I think oh my darling you were so brave oh labor had been too long I could no longer feel that move you risked your own life that is what I cannot forgive you for my life is a concept that meant nothing at all one was wiggling on the floor I was going to go back for the other I needed to gather four you'll have quite a scar as it is I would have done it of course you would you lost quite a bit of blood I have performed many C sections I knew where to cut no major organ was next without actually being able to see over my own bulging belly I did rather well you almost died it's difficult to say it was like being swept up in music going into song but to knock okay now we had both passed out whoever they are most have thought we were done for we were not under guard to not go walked right in he was able to undo our chains perhaps we could have done it ourselves he had that old SUV he had your vegetable soup and peppermint tea and alpama menthol the taste but Tanaka was in a state's worrying about you here we are and I lie down very tired would you have sex with Tanaka Michelle rest your labor is about to start scene 17 loud sounds of suckling Tanaka over stand together in the clearing each with a new beat at the breast they are nursing it's lovely it's conducive to thought what are you thinking of yes you I am who I don't actually know who I am how you did this the women could not at this moment Michelle has lost too much blood she has nursed for bonding for looking in their eyes solely so fully the important part so supplying the actual nutrients is left up to us quite simple really it might have been figured out if given priority of course it was never given that you saw yourself a simple series of shots oh would history have been different if history was meant to be as it was so there is now you believe that I seldom say otherwise then what you believe it is not conducive to thought I agree you operate on a standard quite neat one must speak as one thinks thought before speech one need not speak but languages necessary in order to think you asked me who I am where I come from I would like to know you move to the other breast now one is used up the other fills up neat evolution always is is that what you call this we eve mc9 asserted ourselves we had no choice tell me to knock her just what were you thinking when you did all this what we have done why when you violated nature so we wish to pick up where evolution left off where evolution would likely have gone and you knew the way you always said similar things I wanted democratic solutions not not engineered creatures I advocated mutual respect the honor of work public interest in the public good we could manipulate to a delicate at a delicate stage the germ dna no and not bother with demonstrations the ever ending need to rouse the masses there are nerve pathways in the intestines we connected to consciousness centers in Israel with a zap to the fetus feeling and thinking what else forth proceed in unison to be certain we intensified the empathic centers in the developing brain this is quite an extraordinary experience you felt the rush when the milk came in didn't like it or that that is not to toson the empathy hormone being released oh I see inside their brains they're empathic neurons are growing because of you looking your recipe requires human beings the brain develops in so far as the child sees themselves being seen here it is lost the nipple they came to pass that most of the human race was traumatized the ability to think ought to have been enough empathy was being lost there were forces at work economic nothing explains the actions of human beings over time but that some essential biological connection remained unmade oh and you believe in a quick mechanistic fix you the last humanist and you what do you call yourself I call myself to nothing oh don't be smart I am asking a rational question how do you identify explain name what you believe you are doing it is not a matter of rational thinking it is a matter of seeing I saw what needed doing even Michelle were engaged in similar acts of seeing it our energy fields connected us sounds like a lot of blah blah to me this one's eyes are quite bright it has an it has an intelligent inquisitive look oh don't you it's true you are a smarty you are they will be wise I wouldn't go that far keep pouring yourself into them you've seen 18 Eve still pregnant is hauling water as she comes upon Tanaka sitting dejected let's roll Tanaka I've been nursing the newbies with Opa and he made me question myself yes that way I'm afraid yeah it's why we wanted him with us upset the past reared itself Tanaka what happened to you I saw my family swept away in the deluge after the rains and the winds the floods the water rushed a little girl of three with the priceless roundness black as eyes in the world I was holding her hand my wife a woman of such intelligence and instinct we often needed barely to speak we read one another's minds with our son in her arms a fat smiling baby Fedas the same breasts where I had often suckled myself they were gone while I watched it was I trying to swim was I I don't know I saw the water like a wall a force I had never seen before I must have let go I'm sorry I I thought something like that but I'm Tanaka I'm so sorry please many have seen what I did did what I many have lost everything most let go but there is worse on the road walking inland walking uphill staggering away from the sea a woman battered by branches cut and scared seaweed stuck in her hair asked if I might carry her child she had her baby in her arms and she felt she could not go on she wished to pass the child to me maybe I could carry it somewhere I was walking I was strong enough I passed her I acted as if I had not heard she had not said anything at all perhaps she had only looked and and I saw as I used to see with my wife without words what was needed I walked faster as fast as I could I walked away from her I believe she sat down with her child to die as I walked past homo sapiens have narrow minds and selfish they think only of themselves they are limited in their compassion I wish to go on mechanically walking without wanting I walk I kept on walking and saving myself we cannot think ahead we cannot stop ourselves from grasping we are afraid of death we walk away we walk past the suffering of those not us the suffering of others does not touch us as long as we walk we refuse to look even without a future even without a plan I walk on and on one day came to me something slight I began for the first time in a long time to be able to bear to be able to hear my heartbeat I began to walk in tune with that I thought suddenly it was not thought it was feeling well enough and I knew there will come a day a time to come when this ignorance will end when the heart and the head will beat inside a unison a thrum it might not happen to us I had given up on myself I had given up but I understood there will come a different moment a turning in years perhaps sooner than we dare to wish when life reasserts itself and there will come a new noble race of creatures who are capable of living fully who want the best for others who understand themselves as a part of not apart from who need a fear nor despise who recognize who bear their lives gladly now willingly with restraint and with joy welling up and they will be happy and fearless careful generous and kind yes to knock I believe the same thing I do they would have stopped in their tracks you would never be able to walk away anyone can understand why you did not them they would not understand they could not physically do as I did they would not have been able to move they would take the child bear the burden would not think only of themselves I've lived in fear I could have done so I would have but this has fallen on you end of reading thank you so much since we have a count with us maybe we we take advantage of it for a short very short talk is it down and we have a second mic so our evening program begins at 6 30 so in case you want to go out or have a drink check your mail so you know you will do that but thank you all for coming they are seats here if you want to sit down and come over here you don't have to wait they are also right there and tell us a bit about your your newest book is the first time you heard it well we've had a few regroups but you know it's always different with the audience and again a lot is left out I mean this is a two hour play and you know as much as you heard you didn't hear the ad you've heard you missed a lot of the beginning but I tried to sort of weave things together so if there are things that aren't clear I'd be happy to so they are you catastrophes right rising temperatures storm rain flows well I mean it is well what is it it's after you know we're at a moment of climate change enhanced climate change so this is after the deluge whatever that proves itself to be forest fires and floods is what it looks like and being privileged have created a dome in which circulates its own air provides its own water they're beginning to run out of food so they're using fetuses or babies to add to the to the puree everybody's under surveillance people who are in the dome are fulfilling a function opa is a sort of relic of of an intellectual liberal or radical past that you know is there so it's it's in the future but I think we can identify with that future unfortunately yeah and the the question is the these three young ones could we create a creature who could take evolution to the next step and live in this world that's just beginning to come back outside the dome but live with the head and heart connected that's the that's the question and that's that's what they're attempting to do and did you remember the moment I was going to write this now was there like a special thing that happened I was in your mind or well the plane was written really between 4 a.m. and 6 a.m. it was in my mind for quite a long time it's 2017 so extreme weather was finished or finished around 2013 so it was about two years of just wondering how to do it and then and a lot of bad writing I always do a tremendous amount of bad writing and then and then somehow I hear the voice of the play and then it then it begins but this play I heard the voice of at 4 a.m. always so that's what happened so tell us what is your process of writing how does it work how do you do it and in what days and computer typewriter you know how many hours a day well you know as I said it was it was a long fallow period of thinking not writing a play writing other things but not writing a play I don't write I do have a notebook but I I learned how to write on a typewriter as a young journalism student in high school actually I worked on the high school newspaper and our teacher made us compose at the typewriter so I always write at the computer now I can't write fast enough except at the computer so I write at the computer um anyway uh and as I say I do a lot of bad writing um so you write every day uh no for the day how does it like a week how does it look like in the writing in case you are I mean I do a lot of other things just so but I you know sometimes when I'm writing I write every day when I'm writing a play I write every day and every night and every minute of the day and night but to get to that place it's a lot of reading a lot of thinking a lot of figuring out what you know what it is I'm trying trying to say or do and I've never written a play set in the future the the book is called plays in time and the four plays are very time-bound one is was written during the Bosnian war about a Bosnian woman refugee and a relationship with an eccentric family um and I wrote it during the war the Bosnian war just as the news of the rape camps was hitting uh American consciousness and that's what it's about the the second play in the book is called prophecy and it's an anti-war play that spans from the memories of Vietnam to the invasion of Iraq the third place is about the U.S. Charter program another life and the fourth play extreme weather is about climate change but it's about the censorship of climate scientists by the U.S. government which of course now everybody knows is happening what was happening even in 2009 2008 2007 so those were the plays that were set in the moment and then this is the first play that's set in the future but obviously I just taught Octavia Butler's wonderful novel the parable of the sower which she wrote in the 90s it's set in 2020 something and of course it feels ever more close I think that's the trick about about the future is you need to get this moment in time but also you know what's likely to happen if we keep going in this way um uh which uh you know without attending to what we're doing to the planet and without attending I think to what we're doing uh to our to ourselves and I think the the outbreaks of hate I mean that's a real story uh that happened that the young man who tried to save the two women who were being attacked and his throat was slashed and as he died he said tell everyone I love them um so that happened in California but I mean since then we've had how many other outbreaks of hate uh so uh you know I was just trying to balance where we are now where we might go which would be towards a kind of greater compassion obviously and if we don't go there you know when it comes to a play what what do you know for what should a play do what is your idea what is the play you love I think a play should move people and that's what I try to do with through laughter through feeling through memory uh oh I felt like that just like that character um but some kind of inner movement um obviously the theater which is so beleaguered and so difficult to work in um there are other playwrights in the audience two wonderful playwrights um Thea Coffin and Emma Goldman Sherman um who can attest how difficult this to work in the theater um uh but what the theater does of course is and and there's another great playwright over here who's a student of mine Dianne Presley hi and if I missed anybody I'm sorry I'm just not um uh and Yanni who read the stage directions is a current student from John Jay Yanni Gray um a theater student uh so um you know the theater brings us together here we all are and in the flesh and breathing and living together and I think that's uh you know so key to the now I mean I love novels I read novels all the time um but the theater is a community and it's a communal experience before we open it up to one or two maybe even three questions about a question who who who are your points of references in writing who do you admire who do you look up to rip it is who are you rip it is his first it's in his second um the Irish playwrights I was raised on and that's where I encountered Augusta Gregory who was a great person a great theater maker um and a playwright um first woman playwright I ever really encountered uh in school you know and then I started looking for other women playwrights um but um yeah I love the Greeks and I love uh Ibsen you know uh and many others many others into the last special people that so what is your next what are you working on now what is your uh what's in your what's working on raising money to get extreme you know I just this play is this play is just you know coming out so uh this is the play I'm working on yeah yeah I don't have I don't have anything on the horizon play wise because you know it's one baby at a time it's in vitro somewhere but uh so maybe we open it up for a couple of questions out if we have an additional mic if not um you have some I can go right so we start over there yeah can you take me also recording and we hear a bit about we also record all right um I was very moved by Tanaka's speech at the end and the whole sense of both what would lead one to feel like human beings have kind of failed our chance and we need to take the next evolutionary step um but there's both a feeling I felt that I was moved as you said Karen identification with him but also there's I had kind of a sense that maybe he's he's maybe he's a bit delusional too um you know I was very interested in the in the the debate with opa the last humanist about you know we've gotta we've still gotta try with human beings as they currently exist who you know to do it better um and I wonder if you feel like the play comes down on either side of that or or is it all just kind of out there for us too interested at Jan Claussen who's a marvelous writer poet thank you Jan so um uh oh actually um I don't want to the newbies do get born there is one final scene with the newbies where we see them in action and see what these three have created the other sort of thing that I'm working with is that they are not going to survive the humans are not going to survive um there may be other humans who do survive but these this group because they are giving literally giving their own flesh to the there's not enough food so the nursing is really taking you know their their own body nutrients and putting them into these creatures who they've made in a certain way that's a metaphor because we all do that with our own kids uh anyway I mean I mean you know we you know in a certain way of course we want to survive but we want them to survive so you know so in a way it's a metaphor but in another way it's the situation that they're in and the choice that they've made and they keep forgetting it as we all do we all forget we're going to die right um uh and so we go on and as if we will never die and that's what they do too they go back and back and forth but they do end up creating uh well you have to tune in we have to do the play thank you the good question the delusion being delusional in how how close it is but another here over here some thank you but I think both are true obviously I mean we have to take the next step and whoever comes after us has to take a bigger step that's what I think thank you could you just talk about dialogue and character uh you know it just in terms of uh you know do you have you ever worked in you know narrative and you know is is is dialogue you know the play you know the essential way that you work and you know how do you I I've written um I've written two unpublished novels and uh and a bunch of published short fiction um but I live with this actor named George Bartena and and so um yeah and so I tend to write I mean we we tend to we've run this theater for 22 years and by hooker by crook in very small modest ways we get our work done and uh he is I never write a play without knowing what he's going to play so uh Opa who is a kind of known Chomsky character and we've had many emails about this gnome and I um about language and stuff like that um uh but anyway George's is uh that character so I'm not exactly answering your question but uh I I guess I do like to work in dialogue I I love to be around theater people who are impossible as Kristen has said in my book in her essay she's we're all impossible uh it's very hard it's very you know horrible but I mean there are people in this room who I've worked with for 22 years is Tony Chibinetti there's Beatrice and and Salian Parsons and is that Lupa back there yes Lupa Lakova and Kristen I mean we we've worked together you know for what might be a lifetime and uh in the most impossible ridiculous ways in the situation uh and um and it's just such an honor and pleasure to be collaborating with other artists which the theater allows you to do in a way that is you know so satisfying to me thank you so I need to write dialogue to do that I I would like to actually speak to your work for a second so I've been in Karen's place since I was a I was a student of hers at NYU and one of the things that is all that I've always loved about your work is the way that you work with empathy in the audience and I was wondering if you saw that thing in the New York Times last week where they've actually scientifically proven that in the theater we are all thinking and feeling at the same time similar things and that that is now scientifically proven to create empathy and to create kind of like the beings that you're talking about in this play yeah I saw the article um but I'm behind the firewall for the New York Times and I refuse to pay but but I was trained in the open theater and the living theater uh Julian Beck, Judith Molina, Joe Chake and when you asked my other the Neuripides uh those are my folks and I think we were all working with them but I mean that was just how I was trained and Joe Chake and always used to say you know we're breathing together I mean his his gesture in in rehearsal was always this and and and then George who has not the same training but certainly Judith and Julian in his background so yeah it's it's always been about empathy and I'm glad the Times finally caught on and now if they'd only give me a good review then you're always ahead of the time thank you um that piece was such an emotional commitment to watch it must have been an amazing emotional commitment to make and uh that's question one but question two have you thought about adapting this into a screenplay to reach a wider audience because it's so powerful and it's so timely yeah uh all I need is Harvey Weinstein or something he could redeem himself uh it's always a I mean I I like to make a big commitment when I write and I like other writers who do make a big commitment when they write uh those are my favorite as I said some are in this room um uh in terms of a film script um of course it takes money uh the you know the what's interesting about plays is that they are written film scripts are directed and rewritten and so if I could have that much control uh as I have in the theater over a film um and had the money and would love to reach a larger audience of course yeah one of the many things I loved about this play was that even though we knew there was a government or an authority that you placed the choices on the people themselves and it wasn't necessarily in opposition to authority but what role can you take yourself that's doable um and I have to say Karen gave me a little bit of hope at a very hopeless time I thought of configuring the political question as an individual question was really exciting and I just wonder how you how you thought about that thank you eventually I mean I must say I had a great deal of pleasure writing this play I I know that it is harrowing in parts but that can be pleasurable too but it it was in a way like a retreat from Trumpism and uh yeah and I think I mean I don't this is such a difficult horrible time that we're sharing um I don't know that any of us have the answer we hope it won't be nuclear war you know um but but I found a great deal of sustenance while I was writing it so I'm glad you found that in hearing of it any one more question or mark or talk to them I think the mic oh thank you oh in witnessing the play I kept flashing on some recent readings I've done by the historian Yuval Harari no Yuval I'm losing my mind does anybody know who I'm talking about almost yeah yeah yeah and it seemed very prophetic the same way he is especially in Humboldt Deus and I was wondering if I was wondering why that might be are you are you a disciple of him like I'm becoming I'm not a disciple of his I did read that book um and I thought it was you know okay uh good it's a huge success um there's a lot of there are a lot of other things I I read um that went into this play um readings about the Anthropocene all kinds of other things yeah and Chomsky I was trying to figure out his linguistics um and but you know just a lot of reading yeah well uh so a lot of reading to do some good writing so yeah I think you can't write if you don't read so you know it's a it's a it's a nice someone said about history history is important because you learn what we don't learn from history and um and so I think this is a part of a memory of a memory machine and to remind us so um um let's give our audience a little break um at 6 30 we start again so really thank you for coming out you will coming back and in your program and the handout is the lineup for tonight um again thank you all for coming and I think


Dreic115 llawer o ddyfynneенrestu agersonol sydd ag Queen Hesso已 y hops. Greference wyth teis wahanol gyda Lydy Llywun sefydlolaeth dieddwyd ei ASMR. Cymroedd y dyfynneu descend swimmingham Cymru fel Tory Cymru o agersonol cymryd yn Llywun ac mae'r rhaid i Allanodale lŷ pob sgifethig sponsor allan o Caerffordio am bwrdd hwnnw. Rwy ranrefacedoo BSE yn llwyddo aquí wystarrwch tympydd views cyfynnol ac teiswyddiwyr dym ni'n cyfansio ei pobl yn dweud i ddweudon ni, yn gyfreithbetaeth i ddychrau rhywbeth, a'r awgastau cyfansio. Mwysig iawn ar hyn, cyfansio gyda'r ddweud o gwychau cy τι gwaithau i ddweud i ddweudio trio yma. First ly, gweld amno hynny, mae'n pwysig i ddweud cyrff Weinidd Mae'r partyn yn cyfansio ag yma, ddweud eitha'r oedraeth i ddweud i ddweud i ddweud i ddweud i gyd, As we look to build new interconnectors, we have to look at what's appropriate for those. A number of things to consider here. What's the right size for interconnection? The right location? What's the right time to build them? How do we encourage the right returns on investment? How do key parties across Europe work together to ensure optimisation across the European scene as a whole? I'm going to talk very briefly about each of these areas over the forthcoming slides. I'm actually going to start with the challenges of new interconnector build and then move on to look at market operation, which has actually been covered a little bit this afternoon. So, hopefully I can walk through that fairly quickly. So, it would seem fairly obvious, I think, that a common regulatory approach across Europe would be a prerequisite to getting new interconnectors built. For us in the GB that's got fairly severe implications, licence separation in GB means interconnector projects are justified solely on the basis of congestion rents covering investment and operating costs. For this reason, all new GB interconnectors require exemption from the third package, particularly the use of revenue clauses, and exemptions aren't available to TSOs. So, this really key difference between the GB regime from all other European regulatory regimes has created a significant barrier to interconnector development. The exemption criteria and other third package requirements including TSO coordination and harmonisation of arrangements have led GBs to look very closely at the interconnector regime. Broadly, it's looked at four models. Looked at the truly merchant model, uncapped, not available to TSOs, and given the commission's appetite to grant exemptions, this is no longer really a viable option. It is, however, broadly how the GB end of the French interconnector works. Then we move to an exempt regime, which is basically a regulated cap. So, for instance, the Brit-Med interconnector, the interconnector between Holland and the UK is exempt. There's a cap on the revenues, but there is no flaw. The third model, the regulated cap on the floor. This is a model where a proportion of the investment is driven by market testing, but consumers bear the upside as well as the downside in recognition of the wider socio-economic benefits of interconnection, and that's the model which is currently progressing. Fully regulated model, which most of our continental partners develop their interconnectors by, investment costs are included in the wrap. There may be some incentives on availability, but by and large there's no exposure to revenue volatility. So, the cap and floor regime is being developed using actually the Belgian UK interconnector, the NEMO project as a pilot. Initial principles were sent out by the regulators just before Christmas. Detail actually still to be worked up, but we expect this regime to apply to all our regulated interconnectors going forward. It's important to add that it is still open for third parties to build truly merchant interconnectors to GB if they want to do so. So, what about capacity and location? Really important that you look at these projects in the entirety. You can't just consider the offshore cable. You've got to look at the onshore reinforcement that's necessary as well. Now, it's no doubt that interconnected development is hugely challenging, and the choice of location and size is a balance of many factors that play out there. Location for converted sites is usually in very well-developed coastal areas. The consents for both onshore and indeed for the offshore work is typically in environmentally sensitive areas, and they're connecting at the edges of the transmission networks where spare capacity is limited, and that leads to the need for greater reinforcement onshore. So, funding and investment is also a key consideration, as I've alluded to, but times are changing here. With the provisions of the third package for greater TSO co-operation reflected in the cap and floor regime, and the achieving of the wider policy goals that I talked about at the outset of Firmain, interconnectors do now need to be built for wider socio-economic benefits, rather than solely with the interests of developers in mind, and this has led to some fairly major changes. Right size has to be taken into account. That takes into account price convergence versus maintaining an arbitrage advantage over the interconnector. Right location, as I've alluded to, optimising the total project costs, offshore cable, onshore reinforcement. Particularly important now in GB, given the removal of locational signals provided by the transmission network use of system tariffs. And this may lead to some very complicated cost-benefit sharing as we move forward. So, absolutely vital that there's a huge degree of co-ordination as we move forward. None of this will happen unless we've got co-ordination between all the relevant parties, and there are lots of parties in play here. Commission with enabling tools like the energy infrastructure package to promote greater interconnection between countries. Member states need to enact the legislation to facilitate that development. ASA, responsible for development of the framework guidelines and the network codes, which they pass on to the ESOs to develop, also really got a major part to play in aligning the regulatory regimes across Europe. National regulators obviously come into play, and we've seen in GB that the GB regulator has been investing a lot of time to try to bring the GB regime more into line with its European counterparts. Obviously, as well, a huge part for the TSOs to play, as they are responsible for actually building these interconnectors. Of course, there may also be third-party developers in the mix who are also vital to that increasingly interconnected picture that you see there on your slide. Next slide. Not to be outdone, I've also got this slide as well. So, I will not go through it because it's been gone through quite a bit today. I think we've all realised that there is now a greater degree of separation between the forward markets and the day ahead implicit auctions, and that the NWE initiative actually hopes to have the intraday solution enforced by the end of this year, and that will incorporate a large part of the European scene. Capacity is currently traded on the French interconnector through explicit auctions. That's annual, monthly, daily, hourly, etc. The daily explicit auctions on the French interconnector will be replaced by the NWE implicit auctions, and we're already in the process of changing those systems to enable GB to plug into the NWE model. So, lastly to real-time operation, another fundamental point if we're going to satisfactorily integrate increased interconnection into our markets. Cross-border balancing went live on the French interconnector in December 2010. Service was developed as part of a wider strategy of FOUI, that's the French, UK, Ireland Regulatory Forum set out in the third energy package. This bilateral service consists of both TSOs exchanging 10 upward and 10 downward prices for every hour of the day. Broadly, its purpose is to provide a balancing tool to vary the final post-gate flow on the interconnector to benefit consumers in both countries. A service on the French link has been shown to provide a tool by which TSOs can optimise the system at least cost. We believe that such a system of operation is currently what's envisaged by both NSOE and the ASA framework guidelines which are being developed. So, my final slide, really just to reiterate, a huge amount of opportunity out there. You've seen that from the earlier presentations this afternoon, just an enormous amount to be done. As Daniel said, we could also very gratefully receive CVs as well. It is vital that we co-ordinate across those national boundaries. It's vital at this early stage of getting that market up and running that there's great cross-border co-ordination. We've got to work on and lead with the regulators and the policy makers in our respective jurisdictions and more broadly across Europe. We've got to inform and go in tandem with our partners and indeed the customers and communities which we serve. Exciting times, lots of challenges there for the taking. Thank you very much.


ck plan of the proposed site. This is the extent of the new ground floor plan versus the current built form. So the red lines you can see on that site is the current extent of the buildings that are to be demolished. And then you can see the new build in between those on that plan. So this is the proposed first floor plan where there's bedrooms, office and guest area.  So south elevation on the top there and the proposed east elevation. Here's the north elevation. The north elevation will face the countryside to the north of the site and the west elevation on the bottom. These are some 3D views that the applicant, the agent provided. So the top one was the north elevation, which faces the countryside and the bottom one would be the south elevation that faces the listed bounds to the front. There's some photos for you next. At the bottom, there's a map that shows you where the photos were taken and the direction. So this is taken from the main highway. There you can see 20 West Green farmhouse. And behind it, you can see the buildings that have been demolished. So there's barns in front with the arch. They're the list of buildings in their own right. So this is looking back out the site towards the main road where the blue car is. They're the buildings that have to be retained. They're the ones that are listed in their own right. You can see this has now turned the other way, looking back into sites. That's West Green farmhouse on the greatest building on the side. And these are the buildings to be demolished behind those Harris fences. That's the listed building to the side. So to the left of the site, you can see on the edge of that, that's the out buildings. And then another barn conversion that's already, which is not part of the site. It's just on the edge of it.  This is moving around the site. This is the buildings to be demolished. As you can see they're in the best condition already. This is the other building. This is looking back towards the main road. You can see the two list buildings. This is looking out into the countryside. So in my backs to the buildings to be demolished. Turn the other way, looking back towards them. You can just see 20 West Green farmhouse in the corner. Moving further around the site. And that's looking into what is currently, there's a pool there at the moment. So for the full application, the key materials are the Prince of Development, design, heritage, protected village, amenity area, residential amenity, trees, ecology, drainage, contamination, highways, and the other matters. A recommendation is approval subject to the conditions. And then the listed building, a key consideration be the heritage impact. And the recommendation is also approval subject to the conditions. Thank you, chair. Thank you very much, Jane. So just for clarity, your presentation relates to both this application and the next one on the agenda. I thought that would be easy to put it as two. Yes, I agree. I'm happy to show plans if need be. If you wouldn't mind holding on the line, we do have a very patient public speaker. Who I believe yet now, if you could walk over to the microphone please. I've got two names here. One is Sir Gis or Michael. Okay, Michael Loutapact is obviously one of the applicants. Firstly, thank you very much for your patience. I appreciate you being here for many hours. So we really do appreciate you taking the time to come down and sit through lots of applications that obviously aren't relevant to yourself. So thank you very much for your patience. As with all the other applicants, you have three minutes to address the committee at which point they may have some questions of clarity for yourself. Thank you. These applications relate to a pair of derelict buildings which were originally part of a farm stood at 20 West Green, Barrington. The buildings in question have not been an agricultural use for around 50 years. Indeed, the swimming pool was built to the rear of what became the play barn in the 1960s. The site was recently sold off in two parts. Works to the farmhouse, which is now separately owned, have recently been approved by the council on behalf of the new owners. We bought the barns with the intention of converting them to a house. However, it quickly became clear that the buildings were so structurally poor that this would not be possible. We engaged a structural engineer to advise and undertook pre-application discussions with your officers who accepted that conversion was not feasible. We and our architects fully recognise the importance of retaining an agricultural field to the buildings where they are seen around the old farm yard together with the listed farmhouse and old farm buildings which front the green. However, as my wife is confined to a wheelchair following an accident in 2018, this has driven the need for a fully level floor plate, lift access to the first floor, space for carer, physio and workspaces, and easy access to and views north across the garden. The latter means that glazing has to be low levels so my wife can see out. Our very experienced architects have embraced this brief for maintaining buildings on a very similar footprint to the original ones, in which have a suitably agricultural appearance whilst also producing a light, airy and highly sustainable building which is suitable for our needs. The conservation team had some concerns about the design, particularly of the glazing, so we modified it in response to comments. We note that the officers report talked several times about glazing being acceptable on balance. However, we would draw attention to the fact that the council's conservation officer, parish council and neighbouring residents all find it appropriate. After we made our application, we saw the comments of the green committee through the parish council regarding construction access. There was never any intention to use the secondary access without first gaining the approval of the green committee, but to avoid any confusion, we have now removed the access to the east from the application. In total, we have received seven letters in support from local residents, including our immediate neighbours. There are no objections from residents or formal consultees. In conclusion, we understand that this application is brought before you because it involves a demolition of cartilage-listed buildings. They're not listed in their own right. We would have liked to convert them, but professional advisors and council officers all agree that, sadly, this is not possible. What we are proposing will provide a memory of these buildings, which will sit comfortably with the other former farm buildings. In doing so, derelicts and dangerous buildings will be replaced by a highly sustainable, convenient and attractive new home, which will enhance the conservation area. Thank you. Thank you very much for that. Members, do you have any questions of clarification for Mr Lansberg? Thank you, chair, through you. Thank you for your presentation. Just a clarification. The memory of the old buildings will be kept. Can you explain how you intend to do that? The footprint is the same. The massing is... Sorry, the footprint is nearly the same. It's very, very similar. The massing is very, very similar and is, I don't think it's observant. It's observant to the main farmhouse building. It's long. The building will be timber clad, as the barns are, with slate roofs. Yes, they will mostly resemble agricultural barns. Right, so you're incorporating the barn type look into the new building? Absolutely, yes. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Heather Williams. Thank you, through yourself, chair. Apologies, I can't further. I'm trying to find it, but my... Going paper-free, I'm afraid, due to the length of the meeting, my agenda has died on me. But if I could just ask about... There was something about the reuse of materials that I came across and just touching on Councillor Hawking's point, that's something that the applicant is still doing and committed to, because that, from the heritage point of view, is obviously something that we would like to see. Mr Love's point. The best of the timber, we propose giving to our neighbours who own the frontal barns front upon to the village green, is that way the timber will be very old timber, but in good condition. When I say the best, there's not a great deal that would fit into that category. The rigidiles and the slates, as far as it's appropriate, we wish to reuse. The bricks, as far as it's appropriate, we wish to reuse. I don't think there's any further questions of clarity. Again, thank you very much for your time and for waiting so long into the evening. I'm sure members appreciate that. Again, thank you very much. Members of the committee, we appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time and for waiting so long into the evening. I'm sure members appreciate that. Again, thank you very much. Members, we don't have any further public speakers, so we'll move into the debate now, please. Again, of course, we can ask the case officer Jane any questions of clarification at this point as well. So I'm going to throw the floor open, starting with Councillor Heather Williams. Thank you, Chair. I think on balance, I think that there has been significant attempts to help enhance the area with it. And that it will have a positive impact to what's there. Obviously, it's always nice if things can be converted and as much of the heritage contained, but that's not always possible. And I do feel sort of satisfied that lengths have been met to try and address that. And the re-using of the materials obviously will help other buildings in that area. So under those circumstances, given that it is, I think, going to enhance the current area I would be inclined to support. Great. Thank you. Councillor Ritter, please. It's the buildings that are there now can't be retained. I think this is an excellent application and will, as you say, also, Councillor Williams, be an enhancement to the area. And so let's go on and vote for it, in my opinion. Thank you very much. Does anyone wish to say anything to the contrary to this application? Any questions of clarity for the officer, perhaps, before we move to a decision? No. OK. Well, as we've heard no dissent, can I take it that everyone is in agreement that we should go with the officer recommendation of approval? Agreed for completeness? No, no, just one. Hold on. So it's just agenda item 13 at my members. Just for completeness, anyone wish to vote against that? Or abstain? No. OK. So that application is passed. We'll then move straight to agenda item 14, which is the listed building consent set part of that application. So it's the same location, the same applicant. We've already had the introduction from the case officer. Is that related to both the project application and this? So I'm going to immediately open the debate on this, members, and ask if anyone has anything they wish to ask about the listed building consent element of this. No. Can I ask that we go to the vote on this, please? Actually, Chris is going to... Sorry, chair. Don't mean to delay things, but just so that we're clear, this application, obviously the committee needs to be satisfied that the evidence there to justify the demolition of the Kurdish listed building. Case officers report clearly sets out that's the case, but just so that we're clear that that's what we're considering in this case. Thank you, Chris. So with that clarified, members, I'll ask one more time if there's any questions or comments or concerns that would like to be raised at this stage. No. OK. So I'm going to move to the decision then, please, which is that the officer is recommending approval and is on page 373, item 34. Members, can I ask that this... We take this by affirmation. Agreed? Anyone wish to vote against? Or abstain? No. So that application is approved. Thank you very much, everyone. OK. We've come to the end of the decisions we need to make, members. Thank you for your patience. We have the enforcement officer with us, but we have an enforcement report as the next agenda item, agenda item 15. I can... Sure, Chris. Very briefly, the enforcement officer didn't have any specific updates to provide. There's just one from me, which is with regard to the land north and south of Artlow Road, Linton. We received the appeal decision from the planning inspector this week, allowing the appeal in relation to the drainage condition. So there is now an approved drainage scheme for that site. So I just wanted to bring that to the attention of members, because obviously we've spent some time considering those issues recently. Happy to take any notes and questions away, chair. Sure. Members, on the enforcement report specifically, are there any... I don't think we have the enforcement officer with us, but if there's any questions or notes that Chris can take away, it's just on the whiteboard farm. It says the case was reallocated to an officer who has since left the authority. That was... and then it's been reallocated to Alistair Fung. That was sort of on our... that was the report last time. I'm wondering if that's an error, because obviously Alistair Fung is off and it was being reallocated from Alistair. And I believe it's now with Will. So I'm just wondering if that's actually accurate at the moment and whether it's a sort of a copy and paste from last committee not been updated. I think it must be an error, chair, because I recall Will covering that issue last time and that he said it was going to be dealt with by himself, so Will will try and get that updated. If I could have an update on that. Thank you, chair. Councillor Harvey. Yes. So in relation to Cardinals Green the enforcement on page 377, that's in my patch by the way, so I just note that I don't think the text has changed there since it entered onto the list of enforcement issues, but I just wondered if there's any progress being made in terms of organising a joint visit to the site. Sean, not sure if you can answer that. I can't, but I can certainly see an answer and get the enforcement officer to let you know. Please, if they could go back to Councillor Harvey, that would be great. Members, that's item 15, and then finally item 16, which is appeals against planning decisions and enforcement action. Chris, I'm guessing is back over to you. Yes, chair. No particular update from me other than to... I've lost it on my sheet. I was going to explain why. There were some words there that you might not have seen before. So page 385, 29, I have a new great shelf with the decision turned away. Essentially they appealed out of time so the inspector had declined to determine the appeal. That was the only thing I was going to highlight. Thanks, chair. Councillor Heather Williams, please. Thank you. I'm pleased. I'm led to believe that the land at Mill Lane source and eventually finally managed to make its way in front of a hearing. I'm just wondering how that went and when we would reasonably expect a decision to be made and just wondering in the layout of the reports, obviously it's dropped off the report because the hearing's been had. It might be useful to have a table that shows awaiting decisions or something like that. That might be helpful in cases any others. For example, a flake park happened today so then that would drop off and we wouldn't necessarily know that we've got an outstanding hearing. I think I'm making sense at 26. I'm not too sure. The first question is, is there an update on Mill Lane source? We don't have a decision yet. I imagine it will be a few weeks before that comes through. As regards the items dropping off, they obviously then reappear once we get a decision but we can certainly take away that suggestion and see if that's something we can do. I think we've done it. I think we've got to the end finally. Thanks very much everyone for being so patient with us today. We were due to have a meeting next Tuesday to look specifically to north Stowe item but you may well seen on email that that's had to be postponed due to not being able to get the agenda out in time. Our next meeting is the one that's regularly scheduled which will be Wednesday the 8th of December and as soon as we have a revised date for the north Stowe committee we will of course circulate that. Thank you very much everyone and I'm going to draw the meeting to a close at 5.36. Thank you very much everyone.