Then I won't call the meeting to order at 7 o'clock. The first item on the agenda Are the minutes of September 20th and 822. Is there a motion? Move we adopt the minutes subject to modification And page one page two page three Hearing no corrections then all those in favor of approving the minutes of September 20th 22 say aye Opposed the one abstention Jeff. I'd say okay We move on to public comment. This is a time for anyone here in the room or online to Speak about anything they wish to speak about if you'd like to come to the table to introduce yourself and Tell us what's on your mind Carl Fowler from the Meadow Run neighborhood. I reside at 178 Meadow Run Road. I'm the former Chairman of the Meadow Run Board, but I'm speaking entirely on my own behalf tonight I've been attending an extended series of meetings the development of your booboard regarding new projects pending up in the area of the intersection of Route 2a and Mountain View and I'm concerned with what I sense to be a bureaucratic refusal to consider the impact of the aggregate Totality of those new neighborhoods on the livability of those of us who are already there We have proposals coming from Snyder for over 300 units directly on the other side of Adams Brook We have a potential nearly 80 unit project coming from the Trinity Baptist Church We have the 15 unit Michaud project already underway We have another development about half a mile further to the east on Mountain View All of these are within the town plan But their impact on traffic and their impact on mobility of people living in the area is something that the DRB doesn't want to Discuss because it's quote the state's responsibility Or if it's a town road, they don't want to talk about it because there's development view board. We can't talk about this I Need to appeal to the select board to find some form by which we can look at the aggregate Impact of the additional people coming into that part of our town and what they might do I give you one example. The Meadow Run neighborhood currently is a cul-de-sac But with the completion of the Michaud project between Mountain View and our neighborhood Whitewater Circle will be opened up as a through street and we will be an alternative way to get around the lights and the congestion at Mountain View and Route 2A Now as someone who frequently shortcuts the congestion at Taft corners by cutting through the Zephyr neighborhood I'm not going to be so hypocritical as to claim that I don't think people will be inclined to do that or should be Prevented from doing it But I do think that it's a real issue which needs to be addressed our neighborhood currently has Characteristically about 20 to 25 mile per hour driving in it. We had a speed bump, but it was gradually leveled out by the town Latest is there's going to be a light apparently in front of the Vermont State Employees Credit Union on Route 2A Sounds like a good idea except that already at rush hour on an almost daily basis Traffic backs up from the intersection of 2A and Mountain View all the way to and past frequently The credit union so if you put another traffic light in there It's actually going to increase the problem at least for those of us live beyond that light who might not be inclined to come into the New Snyder development These are issues that I think need to be looked at collectively by the town before we permit the immediate movement from design to Construction of so many new neighborhoods that are potentially impacting us And if the development of new board won't listen to discussion of it, then I hope perhaps the town will Because this is a real problem and whether or not to a for example is a state highway And therefore V trans has authority over it or whether or not it's an issue regarding one development in one neighborhood or another The bottom line is it impacts the residents of this town and gentlemen You should be concerned about that and should be in a position perhaps to help us with some sort of intervention I personally would prefer to see a traffic circle for example rather than a traffic light I'd like to see another one in fact probably up at 2a and Mountain View But there have to be ways that we can address these issues in terms of mobility and fluidity. I know people in the Hamlet and in the Zephyr development are very concerned about traffic going into the new Development by Adams Brooke from the South These are real issues and if the DRB won't talk about them. I hope you will thank you Thanks for coming Anyone else in the room who wishes to speak tonight Anyone on zoom who wishes to speak under public comment. No one on duty. All right No, we'll move on to interview this in appointments tonight. We have a candidate for the old brick church trustees and Sir if it's Pratt if you'd like to come to the table The microphone doesn't amplify the voice but it just records so we do have your Application that's marvelous and if you could just for the benefit of those listening in give us a brief description of your Background and you're interested in becoming a trustee of the old brick church. Sure My name is Sarah Fitzpratt, and I've worked in Williston since 2002 and then bought a home in 2013 and I taught preschool for many years and in 2014 I went to work with the state of Vermont I worked for the child development division. So I work constantly with regulations and making sure everything is in place and doing investigations and When I I love only living in Williston and so when I saw that there was an opportunity to volunteer I thought that would be a good fit I'm used to me helping maintain schedules trainings making decisions based on whatever Ever regulations or handbooks may be made. I'm used to working in teams So I just thought it would be a nice fit Good. Thank you Have you had a chance to talk to anyone on staff or no, I don't know anyone who's That's fine. It's a very of course it's a valuable asset to the town and And there There are some folks who rent this or organizations that rent it and others who use it Because they're part of the town. So anyway Any questions from the board for Sarah? So what particularly about some and we have a lot of volunteer up openings right now? So anybody else is watching volunteer But what particularly interested you about the the brick church? Well, first of all, I love the church Actually, I remember I was living in an apartment on North Williston Road when it got struck by lightning back like in 2007 2008 That's quite the storm that ripped on through But I just like the history of it I'm also good at organizing things and I would like to see it be used if people want to use it for a concert Or I know I was there about a year ago for a dog training class. We met one night in the bottom before we went to the School cafeteria So it's just nice to see it be used. I haven't really well since COVID it hasn't really been used match I don't think so it would nice to be able to see it be used again if they need help organizing that and Maintain helping maintain some kind of schedule then Other questions Those are going to be along the lines of my questions is What do you know about the old brick church? What do you like about it? What attracted you to this? And what do you see sort of your? Role or what you might advocate for as being a part of this? committee Well, I love history and my father was a minister and I grew up in all sorts of old churches. They grew up in southern Vermont So there was multiple churches all bound together and Then when it comes to like my abilities Well, I think about promoting it more online that there is a space I think I know absolutely nothing About how it works. Let me be very clear. I don't know anyone on this committee So I don't know how people sign up to use it or what the perimeters are that they use it Or if there's a fee, but I'm quick to learn all that stuff Since I have to do that for my work constantly anyway So if we need promoting or Looking for more like concerts to occur or things for like local clubs like I don't know the Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts I don't know what the heating is over at the church. I don't know if it's even really usable In the winter or what? There may be concerns with that But I really like to see it be used In a safe way so that we don't hurt it in any way, but see it be used by the community more Okay, so it's right in the middle our little town here, so okay Normally, I'd ask my conflict of interest question, but I can't really see Don't need to check that box Would just be curious to see what the answer would be He's secretly in a band All I do is walk my dog around it sometimes I Mean for the questions just a comment I worked at the Attorney General's office and I was quite familiar with the child development division and if you can Assess compliance with licenses for child care There's I can't think there's anything that volunteering for any aspect of town work It's gonna I'm very familiar with zoning permits and fire safety and wastewater and I was just thinking more of all of those things Defriction and emotion that goes into that. I think you'll be you'll do fine on any board that you want to be on so Assuming that we're going to Appoint you tonight the Wilson Historical Society has a very good history of the Old Brick Church You might want to take a look at that online and it shows it from before it was bought by the town Many things that have been done to it and Many of them show the the fire that happened to it a few years ago. So So anyway, is there a motion to be made? I'll move to appoint Sarah Fitzpratt to the Old Brick Church trustees for an unexpired five-year term through June 30th 2025 Mr.. Second Is there any discussion on the motion? Hearing none all those in favor of the motion and say aye Congratulations, we look forward to thank you very much for stepping up. Thank you Moving on to town value statements crystal E mix cleaning. I believe is calling in from out of state Doesn't have capability to do it by zoom. I think yep. I see crystal E Crystal if you can oh there we have can you hear me crystal E? All right, we've got you we can hear you too. So thank you for taking time out of her wherever you are and we have your Projected draft statement shared value statement. So why don't you? Go ahead and and tell us about that. Yeah So thank you for having me at my apologies that I wasn't able to be there in person or connect by zoom but I wanted to Run these the second draft by all of you and we a few of us go back for after the last meeting Where you all shared your thoughts and feedback and we made revisions to the value statements And we're hoping to either receive further feedback And if not if you feel like they are all set to go we would hope that we could Get your approval to bring these value statements into the current Values that we currently have in Willis and then add these in as additions Thank you Hope everybody's had a chance to look over these and we're looking for Some kind of feedback for crystal E on this whether they're need Redrafting or whether we're happy with them at the way they are Basically happy with them the way they are if I remember correctly from when we discussed them before they were presented as separate ideas and It was kind of that concept of which idea do we prefer and at sometimes we actually punted and said we like both Ideas can you merge them together? So from what I can tell I mean this this is a pretty good merging The various concepts into a more cohesive four-part statement other comments Yeah, just I really appreciate the efforts of Crystal Lee on your behalf and and all the folks who worked on this and that you all Worked to really incorporate our feedback You know and That the daunting task of trying to whittle it down to one sentence was for each item was What was Changed because I don't think that it can be whittled down to one sentence. I think Yeah, these are such complex Ideas and values that they think they did more space Very pleased with the way that you've course missed the all of these and I think you've Come up with along with the other groups that you work with and have come up with a good statement. Yep. Good job I think it's captured for sure Chris Chris Lee. I do have a question. I'll try to be brief I Guess my question is is at what point should we we should we be re-evaluating this? because our ideas about or how these shared values might I don't know being increased or changed over time might might cause us to want to do that and I'm just Like to hear your thoughts on should that be sort of an annual basis type of thing or? Yeah, my thoughts are you know, this is new and this is something that we you know, we're hopefully bringing on And I think reviewing it on an annual basis really makes sense Especially as we continue to do further work on DEI and anti racism within the community and within the you know The municipality and really looking at policies procedures and all of the things that we really want to be looking through These lenses with so my recommendation would be for us to just re-look at them on an annual basis See if they still really match up with what you know What's currently happening if we need to make additions or if we need to re you know Kind of go back in wordsmith and reorganize But my hope would be that we could we could look at these on an annual basis Okay, good. Thank you Any other comments? I think we thank you very much for putting this together and we look forward to having them come back to us in the different form sometime in the near future Please speak to my thoughts on that steps here No, thanks to Chris Lee and everyone who volunteered all the good work to put these Value statements together what I would do next is package these into a new select board policy a town values policy We have some core values that have been on our website including honesty integrity respect Effective service innovation safe and healthy work environment. I would take those and bill often include these values and Draft something for the select board to look at to then get the board's feedback and think what other Value should we include if we're missing anything at that point? So that would the board wants to move in that direction I would do that exercise and probably get it back to you for the next meeting to continue your discussion having a policy document at that point so to review Good We're moving on along we can go then to if Sarah Reeves is Available by zoom at this point. I don't see Sarah just yet. I'm expecting her any time now, but She said she'd be on about I can keep an eye out Eventually got a manager's report Waiting for her. Yeah, why don't we get that's a good idea. Let's do the minutes report Keep us on schedule So so a few things in my report this evening update on our community center scoping and library steering committee A work we have a 10 applicants for the committee from the community, which is which is great We have them scheduled to interview with the select board on the 18th and the first So there'll be five folks interviewing at both of those meetings and select world We asked to select four of those folks to appoint the committee And then the board also be thinking about which member of the board they want to serve on that committee as it also includes A select board member a library trustee and a member of the recreation and parks committee Also pleased to announce we've selected a partner architectural firm black river design to work with the town on this project They've assembled a great team with with other sub consultants specializing in community engagement Library experts and some engineering folks as well. So we're excited to be working with them. They'll they'll support the committee We'll also potentially be looking to start some Community outreach this this fall. We're going to think about that a little bit Well, there's some opportunities for the weather is not so cold So we're going to think about that a little bit, but also be very thoughtful and liberative in the process here I would love to be very important. So Excited to be in forward with this project And I think things will really start coming together in the next month or so with the committee as well and We'll have the holiday season as well But I think once we get into the new year things will really pick up speed a bit on this project as we are as of today And um, it's recognized the work on the north wilson road culvert project was quite a large endeavor and I think our public works department and Contractor who assisted us we and we had to close the roadway for a couple days there But it was uh, we thought we may have up to a week of disruption at least with one lane traffic But they were able to get the work done ahead of schedule. Which was very welcome. So That that's all then been wrapped up and it's good shape now So eric just hopefully a quick question on that I drive that road a lot. I would have fully expected they had to cut across the whole road, but they didn't How'd they do that? It's a good question. I know it was a It was a very it was a section of pipe they replaced and they had to relocate a gas line as well Okay, a section of it. Oh, and they had to okay step, but uh, maybe that makes that's the answer right there Yeah, it might have been a side boring too I just assumed when bruce was talking about a a culvert that had collapsed It meant the whole culvert had to go, but I guess not Yeah, we we were worried it might be bigger, but yeah, okay I think it was about a 70 foot section though, but it's a pretty large System that that is attached there as well.  Um seminar on friday boots. Did I miss that email? Yeah, um Probably not. I don't think I'll be able to make it. I'll look but that's going to be tight for me Shoot You're gonna have to be there. Yep. Yeah good I'm glad we're represented.  So courage and community members to stop by And that's all I have for my manager's reports. Um, and I see you I've got sarah From cswd so I can I can connect sarah now unless the board has any questions Any questions for her All right, that's kira manager's report and sarah is ready. Yep, I'll get her connected here Thank you so to start the discussion on the chitin in solid waste district materials recovery facility or Murph is is commonly referred to and Eric would just like this Lead off the discussion and we can switch right over to sarah and we don't have a Town representative to the board kelton bogusky is here as well We'll um, so the chitin solid waste district selling a special meeting on uh, November 8th for voters and member of miss out the municipalities to consider a bond question The finance and new materials recovery facility or murph to be located on redmond road here in wilson Sarah Reeves is the executive director and she's going to provide a Lower view for the select board this evening and members of the public on on that bond question for their special meeting Thank you very much and to I get to share my screen that would be great. Otherwise, I can certainly Shout only taking several hundred of these to Let me be familiar with how to do this. So thank you again for your time I do appreciate the opportunity to present What we're hoping to do And hoping to have voters approve on November 8th And I think this board certainly is familiar with who we are for anyone who is Tending maybe for the first time tuning in We are a municipal district created in 1987 by our member cities and towns and to manage these solid waste that is generated by residents and businesses and visitors to chitin din county This is a general map of kind of where our facilities are located and You can see there's several that are located right in the middle of the county, which Is the main reason that we were really happy to be able to be working with the town of wilson for so many years as our whose town community And again, we have many many facilities and services and here we're going to talk about the murk or the materials recovery facility What is a murk? that is where blue van materials are Are brought to be sorted into different commodities and sent on to different different markets So currently right now and this is the plan going forward cswd owns the facility In the list and we own the building and the land and the equipment We do contract the services to kissela for daily operations And we are the only publicly owned single stream murk in vermont the other Main murk in rutherland is owned and operated by kissela So why do we need any murk? Well, this one was as this board made a call built in 1993 It was built for 25,000 tons of material coming in the door and we currently process about 47,000 tons where we're located on lmc is at the end of A road before the large curve town in the industrial park And we're hemmed in we can't expand out. We can't expand up There's just the one baler and we don't have any Any backup? So if that that is the heartbeat of the facility if that goes down Then we are down and we have had that happen a couple of times And we have had each either send material down to rutherland I don't think we've had to send anything out of state But I know the last time we had a shutdown is for about a week And what was able to accept the material the new facility will give us much more flexibility Both redundancy and the ability to withstand any shutdowns Again talk about that flexibility it's also not having flexibility in the type of material that we can accept We cannot even think about accepting any new types of of recycling And as everyone knows packaging has changed dramatically over the past 20 years past 15 years So this facility The only things that we can take are the items that these folks and there's generally five people Who are on that container sorting line and they are specifically trained to take a bottle Basically a plastic soda bottle or water bottle or aluminum can or a large detergent jug things like that There's no way that they would be able to grab anything different Even made of those number one twos and five plastics So it's extremely inefficient We are probably one of the only mercs in the country Rutland is another one that currently handsorts containers. We are About 15 years 20 years behind the times We also again have very limited storage and this is a photo I saw a This happened. This is happening this weekend. It was their last week when I was getting tours Where we store some of our material outside. This is not industry best practice The new facility will allow us to have Roughly two and a half times the storage capacity to three times the storage capacity all indoors as it should be the reason this is an issue is You know the weather the sunlight the rain Degrades the value of these materials everything needs to be kept indoors And this is a very rough conceptual design. We have not brought anything specific To the town yet because we do not yet have the approval of voters to enter into long-term bonding, but this is Essentially where we would be proposing to locate the new facility. So that is Redmond road and that is property that is owned by cswd And you can see the blue square represents The size of the current facility which would fit completely and wholly within the new The new mirf on either end of that blue square That's where the tip floor will be the receiving day and then on the other end will be the storage bag or the The exporting bag So both of those again are two and a half to three times the size of the current Tip floor and they'll storage area And if we needed to further expand for some reason if we were getting towards the maximum Capacity of that work, which that would be a good problem to have We do have room to expand On either direction more more on the side away from on ribbon road then towards it But there will be a little bit of room towards open And again our current facility The main technology is in our our glass cleanup system and I guess we consider a magnet technology But we really don't have anything close to modern technology what we're seeing here The orange machine is called an optical sorter And what this will do is it will read all of the material going underneath the the Machine on that belt And by that point by the time the material gets to this this point It's already been sorted out. These are for containers. So we're showing you container one right now The paper line the fiber line. We will also have these these automatic optical sorters Um, so we'll have three of these on the fiber line three of these on the Container line and then another optical sorter on what we're calling the last chance Or the residue line to be able to grab anything that may have possibly slipped through any of these these areas And the material is run underneath And you can program the the equipment to be able to read certain plastic types So again as packaging changes That's how we'll be able to be flexible and adaptable for the future We can simply upgrade and update the software Again capacity benefits more square footage means higher quality output and it allows the material to be To be sorted better because it it means that it has a longer run And what that means is that it has The less ability to have things be piled up and kind of heaped And and it's called having a nice even depth of material So we can more easily sort through and that the equipment and the people can do a better job You really want your your mercs to be long Ours is short and squat and all the way up to the raptors Another key benefit is that in the new move all of the processing will be indoors and that is critical Particularly for the glass system Everything inside is really how modern mercs do it and we need to bring that to Vermont Again, we like to talk about future proofing and building flexibility for the future So this size mer will allow us to Process on a single shift Upwards of 65 to 70,000 tons of material That is how efficient these these pieces of equipment are So it will also get as I mentioned allow us to adapt to the evolving packaging Things that are on the drawing board right now and be able to keep moving more material from the way stream and Continue to preserve space in the landfill As I just mentioned everyone I think you really understand the environmental benefits and critically it is that 70,000 tons of recycling every year that that we're aiming for We also would have the Opportunity there the capacity to go to a second shift But with this amount of of capacity on a first shift we still I don't think we would need to do that So we have plenty of room both for storage and material going outbound On five days of storage capacity on the inbound material in the event that something does happen to shut down One of the questions we do receive is what happens to the folks who are working there now and right now they are so employees and We're actually under staffed So Our intention is that anyone who is currently working at that facility If they want to work at the new facility, there's a job for them We will have space for them because what will happen is the folks who are hand sorting right now Will transition into quality control So the equipment The optical sorters can sort to between 92 and 95 percent efficiency. So there is still a role for Humans to be able to do the qa after the equipment is does its job So everyone who wants to come over to the new mirth We will have a spot for them and it will and the creating At least two or three new higher skilled positions and And clearly you can see the difference in in the the working conditions themselves will be taller ceilings lighter brighter wider belts better ventilation So much better scenario How are we intending to receive the funding? The bulk of the funding will be from again, this is All with the assumption that voters to authorize the borough We're coming from the municipal bond bank. We are also eligible for a zero interest municipal loan from the closed loop fund and that is an investment fund that is Slowly focused on recycling infrastructure We also have cash on hand. We've been planning for this for a few years and we have cash on hand But we can contribute to the project Also, we are aligned for a grant from the recycling partnership for upwards of $500,000 and the asterisk on the cswd contribution We are also going to apply for a grant from the epa Through their infrastructure grant program that was recently approved through congress and signed into law And those applications will hopefully be available within the next several weeks and we should know if we have We'll be receiving a grant hopefully by the end of the calendar year if not rolling into the next calendar year So we will be applying for the max And how are we going to pay it back? So we'll take out the the loan and The bond over the course of 25 years and we'll pay that back through operational revenue and again, this is Really critical that the cswd maintain Ownership of this murph. I think it's we really need the balance to have a municipal murph and a private sector murph in the state And it is our aim and has been our modeling to keep our fees as low as possible meaning that tipping fear that fee that That polished pay when they bring materials to the murphy processed so that we can continue to maintain stability in the recycle industry of vermons And you know again as municipality, we don't have that that same Motive that the private sector does so all we need to do is to make sure that we are paying for our Our daily operational costs any capital contribution to the capital reserve To maintain the equipment and do replacements on a scheduled basis and then to pay the debt service And this is a special election. Um, so We all received our votes from the secretary of state But you did not receive the cswd ballot because that is a special election. So there are several ways that voters can request the ballot from if they wanted to To vote on this this initiative You can still go to your my voter page through the secretary of state's office And when you do that, you will see that the general election Ballot box has been checked and then you can then request The other separate special election ballots You can go right to the town clerk's office and vote in person or pick up the ballot there And obviously if you vote in person, you will be handed all of the ballots that you need in order to to cast your votes And I will stop the share And we'd love to answer any questions you may have So one quick question regarding the ballot since the they're not going to be mailed Well, they will will be mailed if people request them, but Are we going to Be collecting them for a central location to be counted? So so yeah, so um The cswd charter requires our member towns to actually be the um the manager of our special elections. So To the normal wherever people vote in wilson that will be where they'll be able to vote on the cswd special election Good. So other other questions from the board regarding The funding and other Hey, sarah, uh, guess what I have a question or two The first question I have is um the project that's going to be funded through Through this ballot initiative, let's say Do you anticipate that it uh, or does it or do you anticipate that it will include improvements to redmond road due to the Volume of traffic redmond road. We'll see It's a great question and we We will be the same or should be the same volume Of traffic bags that we're seeing in the industrial park so that we'll just shift as you are aware um It's the road itself is rated as a landfill road. So there shouldn't be any need to do any Buffeting or buffering up up that road. There will be increased traffic, but it will only go to Just past the global foundry's entrance. So our entrance, um Is being designed to there's a House that we own across the street from that entrance and that will be the new entrance to the murk So the trucks will go just that far down that road Say that that will be you know determined decided during the permitting and design phase of this Yes, that's right. Yeah, okay um The next question You went through the slide and thank you for the presentation The first thing I'm trying to I'm on the page where it's called funding sources. Oh and this the speaker in here I'm having trouble hearing it What did you call that epa grant that you were anticipating applying for? Yeah, so it has um the acronym. I actually didn't say the acronym, but it is Swiffer like the sweeper it's solid waste infrastructure for recycling is twofold one is um If you could just sort of discuss what's your strategy to make the amount that needs to be bonded as small as possible And I'm sure you're good at that you your organization And then the other question is is when I look at the funding sources, I see the amount that's um going to be You're going to go to the bond bank for which is 16 million, but I see the approval is for 22 million So I'm trying to understand that difference Yes, thank you. So we are our our board of commissioners authorized us to Enter into long-term debt Not to exceed 22 million dollars So what we're doing is we're trying to see How can we make sure that the the impact of the long term the longer term borrowing Meaning the bond is to your point as low as possible. So through a combination of um the 16 million from the bond bank if we even need that much if we get a grant we'll be reducing That amount and a shorter term long term borrowing from the closed loop fund In the amount of the loan those two together Count as the 22 Million dollars that our board has authorized indebtedness. So The closed loop fund loan would be no more than five years payback And then the bond bank would be the 25 year payback So I'm misunderstood the closed loop fund is not a funding mechanism per se. It's a loan program Correct. Okay. And who's that operating buddy? Do you mind me asking? It's operated by the closed closed loop partners and it is an investment firm it's Oh funded by lots of very large companies that have a stake in recycling and improving recycling they focus for a long time Initially on getting carts into communities recycling carts as opposed to bins And now they're moving into infrastructure. So funding things like marks and You know other Larger scale projects and they're very excited. They haven't funded much at all In New England nothing in Vermont. So they're very Eager to be able to participate in this project to be able to you know, say that they've they've helped us improve recycling destruction state And I assume this goes without saying the terms are quite good in terms I mean five years is relatively short, but the terms are good other terms zero interest. Yeah, zero interest My last question is um the Asterix at the bottom of the funding sources where it says less epa grant funding I wasn't sure what that meant when it's tied to the district's contribution So that is um We're saying that if we don't get an epa grant CSWD will put in the balance if we do get an epa grant and it happens to be 3.5 million dollars Then to either CSWD does not have to put in cash or we could reduce the total amount that is going we need from the bond bank Or from the closed loop fund to lower that overall long-term endgame Okay Yep, okay. I get it. So in other words the 3.5 million is what you anticipate will be the maximum The district will have to use as I'm going to call it the local share Correct versus and that may be reduced by a grant Okay, yeah, I think that's it. Thank you Thank you Other questions and comments I don't have any questions, but I I did share before the meeting I was I happened to to you know get like a targeted ad during like a A game I was playing on my phone waiting for school pickup And I just want to applaud you on the the excellent marketing for the vote Oh, good. Thank you very much. How'd you sign? There's One thing on the single sheet that we had that didn't get shown to me and that was the the timeline for the project and I want to just talk briefly about that sure Yeah, so the timeline is this is we think um doable a little bit hopeful a lot does obviously um First primarily rests with the voters should this be approved then we anticipate taking You know basically most of next year working with the town on permitting and and um, you know Finalizing design so it would be full We're anticipating full year of that and then If all of that is is approved then we would start to do construction Um in you know late calendar 2023 into 2024 That would go through the spring and the summer into the fall We would start the the equipment installation in 2025 And the acceptance testing into the spring of 2025 and then start up commissioning training in late spring of 2025 So hopefully July 1 no later than that in calendar 2025 would be Anything to add to the uh comments tonight I guess Kelton's not here Katelyn McCamp is is online though. I guess kelton had something come up. Okay. Good. I know Katelyn do you have anything to add if you reach your hand if you have anything I can I can unmute you Nope, I'm Katelyn. Does that have anything to add? No, nothing. Okay I think we're we're good for the for now the um the mirf is Well needed and needed to be replaced and for efficiency and everything else. So so thanks very much for your presentations Thank you very much for your time. I appreciate it sir, thank you So we're running a little bit ahead time. We can't start to hold a period until eight o'clock But we do have a couple of things under other business to take care of right and uh Eric perhaps you want to talk about the um the resolution for the td bank To push you on it's a uh costiner. Yep. I left it for the board. I realized I Pack it but it's uh, do you need to go sure it's uh, we're um just doing some um Administrative work here to make the manager a costiner on our on our bank accounts and the td bank requires a resolution from the board In order to do that. So I asked the board to consider a documents resolution and then we can submit it to the bank Any questions for Eric regarding this I'd be looking for a motion They'll move. I was going to say is there one in our Manager's report The wording's not there We're lost We have a motion to uh Approve it. Is there a second? Second Is there any discussion on the motion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. We're taking care of that under Other business and we do have A new warning for the cud to Eric want to talk about that as well. Yep. Very minor changes. It's scheduling items. So we have the public information hearing scheduled for Um, November the first and we had scheduled it for 7 30, but I'm suggesting we change that time to 8 p.m due to um number of interviews the board will have for the steering committee that night to uh Help our our time estimate as we can so it's it's just a change From 7 30 to 8 p.m for that on November the first and we just asked Suggesting motion for the board to approve the the warning for the special election on November 8, hasn't it? Okay Any questions or comments regarding that? I'd be looking for a motion also So moved We're good with half an hour Is there a second second a discussion on the motion Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Any opposed? All right. Um Any other business anybody wants to talk to take up right now before we uh, move to the public hearing I could also suggest the item following the uh form-based code Matt Belongi could speak to the all hazards mitigation plan if you'd like to do that item up before the public hearing Yeah, since matt has just arrived that would be That would be good to do Item number nine the jen county moldy jurisdictional hazard mitigation plan great Thank you for having me I've prepared a memo which was in your meeting packet this week related to the potential adoption by the select board Of the 2022 chitin county all hazards multi jurisdictional hazard mitigation plan This is a plan that is regional in nature but contains a section specific to williston Related to all manner of planning for Dealing with various kinds of hazards that the town and the county and region might encounter And identifies efforts that the member towns in the county have made in the last few years Towards improving resiliency of their respective towns and region This is a plan that's aligned with the chitin county regional planning commissions 2018 egos plan mission encompassing environment community opportunity and sustainability concerns And it's also aligned with priorities outlined in the vermont emergency management 2018 state hazard mitigation plan Addressing hazard mitigation planning on a regional basis is a somewhat new thing for williston. We were approached in 2018 Asked if williston wanted to join In with the other towns of the county to engage in this effort Collectively to get this required document approved. We did and what you have in front of you is the finished product As well as what's called the williston annex I will note with some apology that the willison annex has a big blank spot on the front that says put town map here I will communicate with the consultants about having an appropriate map of the town of williston Added to that before final adoption Um What's in front of you is is a motion to adopt the plan and if you choose to do that I can convey that back to the folks who prepared the plan Becomes part of the regionally adopted plan All the questions for matt My key question matt is um Is it appropriate to view this as an updating the pre you know last year's version of this Is that correct? Yes. Okay Any change any big changes? No real big changes not to the williston section. We updated whatever efforts had been made around flood resilience Things like that, you know looking at um culvert analysis You know various elements of our infrastructure and things like that, but the broad strategies haven't Haven't really changed in terms of planning for resiliency in willison. Okay So a little bit of what I just heard is you don't anticipate any impact on the capital budget next year this year Whatever year the one coming up soon No, the priorities here very much You know stay the course maintain infrastructure monitor infrastructure for susceptibility to Again primarily flood or you know flash flood stormwater hazards changing weather You know, but the hazard plan itself talks about communities having to think about things like pandemics for example or um Internet service outages data outages and other things that um may not have been as completely addressed in prior planning Oh interesting Okay, and and obviously you're good with it. Yeah, okay Any other questions And there is a motion suggested Move to adopt the 2022 chitin and county multi jurisdictional hazard mitigation plan resolution as presented Is there a second second? Is there any discussion on the motion? Good job. Thank you. Thank you All those in favor of the motion say aye. All right. Hi So we're now down to the public hearing on the development by law amendment the form-based code overlay district not have corners and townwide official And this is time for the public hearing the willison select board will hold A second public hearing to receive comment on proposed changes to the existing willison unified development by-law to create a form-based code Overlay district tap corners area and establish an official map for the entire town Pursuant to 24 vsa sections 44 42 and the willison unified development by-law That goes on further to say the public hearing will take place on tuesday october 4th 2022 at 8 p.m In the back of my choir meeting room at willison town hall So before we start the presentation, I would ask people in the room by show of hands who Wishes to speak tonight One two three four five six And those on the line how many would wish to speak Tonight see folks online if you could just raise your virtual hands here and i'll Got two hands raised right now terry, but a number of people listening so it could be more than common So at this point Before we open the to a short presentation by matt I will limit the amount of time that each person has to Know more than three minutes as you get to with that point So think about what you're going to say in three minutes time And with that i'll turn it over to yes You can do that Why don't you wait until you're time to speak and then you can present that to the The folks in the audience Pardon me I think that would be helpful. Yes So matt a short presentation on what we're here to talk about tonight Thank you for having me and i'll do my best to be brief Working from the present moment This is a second public hearing on the matter of considering the adoption of new zoning in williston in the taft corners area Development standards in the form of a form based code that regulates the architectural design site placement And other aspects of new development Emphasizing as you might imagine the form of that building in site where the building is placed on the site and how And its shape and configuration in terms of architectural elements like doors windows balconies, etc Um, this is the second public hearing being held by the select board because uh following the select board's july 5th public hearing There were three select board meetings vigorous discussion on the version of the code that had been heard that night And some direction to staff to prepare some changes to that proposed code as it had been originally transmitted to the select board and heard by them in july The major changes that the select board asked staff to prepare for tonight's hearing were two boundary changes one removing the property on the Northeast of route 2a mostly in the bounds of the proposed annex subdivision, but also some properties fronting along 2a from the code area Secondly removing some of the land proposed in the southwest corner of the form based code area from the form based code This would be taft corners park Harvest lane lands adjacent to walmart home depot, etc Resetting the boundary in that area to a point 150 feet south of marshall avenue Those were the two boundary changes the other change the select board asked for was that the draft had an absolute limit on building height Building height in the form based code is primarily expressed in a combination of number of stories and maximum number of feet But because it incentivized the provision of a pitched roof above that maximum story The prior draft could have resulted in pitched roof Points exceeding 110 feet in height the select board in consideration of some work We did looking at typical roof pitches on typical size buildings in the code area Asked to add an 87 foot maximum height limit that would be applicable in all of the different form areas in the code Backing up a little more. I do want to just review where we've been The form based code was prepared for consideration by the select board by the planning commission following an extensive public process throughout 2021 At the time that the planning commission transmitted their draft to the planning commission We had had over 2,600 visits to the my taft corners.com website 961 email subscriptions on my taft corners.com 711 email subscriptions to our planners corner newsletter We'd had four hours of in-person conversations with folks at green up day back in march of 2021 or sorry may of 2021 11 hours of citizen time collectively spent in community meetings including a kickoff q&a week-long design studio And presentations and work in progress updates by our consultant team Um, we had over 74 survey comments 338 comments on our map of taft corners 129 participants at our online events 70 participants in our kickoff 36 participants in our design workshop on april 24th 65 participants at our work in progress presentation on may 3rd of 2021 Remembering also that along with the form based code and all of the standards in it We are proposing a townwide official map that would plan in a more detailed way for Paths new streets and green spaces We had a 15 member mobility committee that started its work in 2021 or sorry in 2020 and worked through 2021 on elements of that official map throughout town including in taft corners It was by far the most extensive public outreach process I've been involved in it as a planner in williston and was Very rewarding to be part of all of those conversations. We had with folks And I thank the planning commission and consultant team For their hard work in making that happen. We had planning commission members out in the midst of covet Putting up posters about this project at workplaces throughout taft corners to try to solicit input from Folks we might not be able to reach otherwise There was a point where Emily Heyman and I Went out and knocked on doors in taft corners to try to reach people We thought we weren't going to get through the town website and all of that Played into the vision plan that the select board reviewed a year ago in july a little over a year ago And the code in front of you is based really extensively on the feedback that was obtained through the development of that vision plan and As you maybe have questions for me tonight, I may refer to the code I may also refer to the roots of something in the code in the vision plan Finally, I'll just end by saying That the code First off begins with a plan for a grid of streets in taft corners It plans for those streets to have an interconnected network bicycle and pedestrian facilities in an organized way That provides a continuous way for walkers and cyclists and drivers to get around taft corners It's based on a grid of blocks that are around 400 feet in dimension Which is a human scale dimension that allows for walkability It generally calls for buildings to be pulled up to the street And to present their architectural best face to the street So the design requirements are really about what's going to happen up on the street The code is very much Asking that access and utilities and trash service and parking and all of those things happen behind the building and are accessed from an alley From a side street Those are really critical elements to the form here Lastly the Forms standards call for a variety of different maximum and minimum building heights in an attempt to fit this form area in With the rest of town and be harmonious with itself And those buildings as I said are required to be dressed in their architectural standards with Minimum amounts of windows, minimum amounts of street facing balconies, minimum amounts of doors on the street In general providing for a development pattern that interacts with the public realm and becomes part of that public realm That's happening on the street. So You've all seen it. You've wrestled with the code It's heavily illustrated a lot of what i'm talking about has has pictures in the code That complete package is still here the adjustments where the two boundary changes and the addition of an absolute maximum height Again to prevent the very steepest roofs from being placed on the very biggest buildings under the code I'm going to stop there. I'm sure you'll Call me back up if you need clarification on something else, but I've certainly taken more than three of your minutes Thank you So now we'll start the public hearing for those of you who arrived late I asked if a number of people are going to speak And i'm limiting to each of you to three minutes both you here in the room and on the On zoom so i'll call Mr. Martell what you come up to the table and introduce yourself and you'll have three minutes Hello, my name is david martell. I live here in bills to brahman And uh, I don't guys I wrote something up here, but we're down to three minutes. I wanted to cut this a little bit short Obviously, I've been opposed of the zoning rules. Uh, the new zoning vote with the new zoning bylaws Particularly the building height Um, uh, those buildings that they're looking every now at that 88 and 2.9 feet or 87 feet would have been a call It they're gonna be twice the height of the buildings current apartment buildings We have right now the chat corners and I was it I was kind of focused on that and I kind of got uh I kind of missed out on some important stuff and one of those is that I got my focus got lost And I was like, I didn't know how many apartment buildings They were actually looking at putting in will listen How many can they actually fit in and I understand there's going to be up to a hundred apartment buildings Of the sixth floor and each one of those apartment buildings holds 60 apartments in it So a hundred apartment buildings at 60 apartments per building that's 6 000 apartments. We're going to have in will listed two people Per apartment that's 12 000 people two cars per apartment because two cars go to work. That's 12 000 cars On the average each apartment each household that say they have an average average of two children That's 12 000 children in our education system Williston infrastructure cannot handle that type of influx I mean, I don't know how long they plan on this going to take the to work out But that's a lot of people. That's a lot of cars. The streets aren't designed for I don't even the sewer and the water can handle it to be honest with you It's a huge amount of people in this area the infrastructure just can handle it another thing I compared it to the existing buildings in Finney crossing right now The existing buildings there have 59 apartments compared to the 60 of the new apartment buildings which are Six six stories compared to the three stories that have right now in Finney crossing The difference is is the base size of it. So the ones in Finney crossing are Shorter and wider and the new ones they're proposing are taller and narrower, but it's the same amount of apartment buildings So what you're doing is just cramming in a lot more apartment buildings that are taller that are taller six floors Which is going to double the apartment space in the area So, I mean, I just don't agree with that. I think it's just too much The other thing. Um, I like to talk about is On the other side. Okay, uh, the other thing I find that people I hear all the time is people believe that these apartment buildings Are going to somehow prevent the development of open property here in Williston And that's not true if there's open if there's there's people that own property in Williston And they want to sell that land for development They can do that building these apartment buildings is not going to prevent the development of other land in Williston Also, I see here you hear a lot is this is going to provide more Affordable housing and right now there are no rules. There's no regulations. There's no Management, there's nothing in place to manage affordable housing in Williston. It's just a word It doesn't mean anything until there's a system or a policy or a procedure A management a department that is going to manage and a written contract or an agreement with the builders Or the landlords of the building owners that say It's one of these buildings you're going to get five percent of the apartments is going to be considered affordable housing And what is the affordable rate? Is it 1200? Is it 1800? Is it 2000? Who knows what it's going to be? Um, I think we're trying one, so Okay, can I do one last thing? Yep. All right. Cool. All right. So I guess the other thing is I think this is pretty important. We have a lot of people both sides want it don't want it I think this is something that's a slight board to commit to putting to a new zoning regulations To a town-wide vote at town meeting day And I guess as the town member the slight board is that something you folks would consider doing I mean, we have a lot of people on both sides want it don't want it And I think it should be to do a vote with the town people actually make that decision Thank you. You had to get any I'm not sure the law Allow us to do that. Can I see one more thing quick thing? Can I see one more quick thing? No Good morning, man So anybody else on this side who wishes to speak? I saw a lot of hands. Yes Again, I'm Carl Fowler from 178 metal run road I think the revisions proposed have improved this proposal and in that respect. I am pleased with That said, I think this is unfortunately exempting the acreage of the proposed strategy development And if that decision is going to be made to exempt one very large development Which contains 300 units and it's really consequential in terms of impact There should at least be a pause to try to see if the mitigations for that neighborhood Can be made effective without the rules for form-based development And that reflects traffic flow, but it also reflects open space I do not disagree however that in general cluster development is desirable if we can accompany it By a requirement for open land And there's the keys. How do you require the open land requirement? And I do think the plan is relatively silent on that and probably needs Regrettably yet more work before it's an option But I regret the removal of the land that would accommodate the standard development It was a pretty concise and effective area before The final irony of course is that we have so developed already so much of the taft corners neighborhood That there is going to be relatively less impact. I think that people may imagine on this And that doesn't say shouldn't do it, but it does say perhaps that the parameters of this Plan should be expanded perhaps to go to mountain view To go further towards the historic village and not be trapped just at taft corners. Thank you Anyone else on this side? Yes Thank you. My name is Kyle Saw. I live here at Turtle Pond in Williston I just wanted to voice my support for the select board voting in favor of the form-based code I think growth is a reality Williston's lucky to have a growth problem, but it's a problem nonetheless In order to plan for an effective use of space that benefits the people that live in Williston the planning commission And planning staff and community worked very hard to develop this plan A number of revisions have taken place The buildings will get built either way as people have mentioned There's really no stopping it and I think the form-based code is one of the best options we have to Manage the growth for the future in a sustainable way that benefits. That has public benefit I also wanted to thank the planning commission and the town planning staff for all the hard work that they did on the project Thank you Someone else. Yes Hi, i'm elizabeth scarry. I speak for my husband jerry greenfield also I agree with mr. Martell about this Huge scope of this project for our little town Um The just the fact that there is a potential for that many huge buildings It just doesn't seem like it's in any kind of scale for The town since i've lived here, which is many many many years. It was 4 000 people. I think when I came here Uh, I know there's going to be development. Um We understand that we're near burlington. We're on an interstate exit Um an entrance so it it's going to happen, but It really seems like it's massively out of scale Potentially I I think about I I don't have a clear sense of what this would do to people's taxes and I I think of all the retired people in this town who are in fixed incomes my husband and I can afford to pay taxes some people really can't and I you know I just feel like this is Out of scale and should be reconsidered Thank you Go to this side of the room. Uh, mr. Brooks, why don't you pass out your information and then Your time will start when you set the table Welcome Thank you. Peter Brooks We live off of the old cream re We built our house 35 years ago So of course some we've seen a lot of change in Williston and As a previous gentleman said I want to thank you for the incredible amount of work That's been involved in this It's we really appreciate all the effort you've put in and we appreciate that you have Loaded to lower the maximum height to 87 feet Uh, so we've been distributing this letter to the select board members As as you'll see in the letter as you folks know, we are still very concerned about the 87 foot maximum height That this is very out of scale with the tax corners area And not at all what the residents of Williston Want for our town This 87 foot height is Significantly more than two times the height of the existing three-story buildings With flat roofs that are behind LL bean and and healthy living Is there any way we can kind of Okay, thank you So we we strongly feel that the new construction in the taps corners area Should be subject to the current height regulations And be in proportion with the existing structures And more in keeping with what Williston residents want for our town So we have 90 signatures on our letter and I think it's important to note That that these people are not outliers Our good friend John shook Um Lives in the village and has signed a letter on sunday. He took it around to his neighborhood He talked to 19 people about this question of the height of these buildings And all 19 people signed the letter And that was reassuring to me. I I felt quite certain that that this would not be Uh what people wanted, but it was reassuring to me that that out of 19 people 19 people said no They said no, we we oppose this So I think a big takeaway from this Is that a strong majority of the people in Williston would be opposed To allowing these buildings of 87 feet to be built at taps corners John talked to 19 people in every single one Signed a letter Thank you Penny Walts on this side of the room we should speak a lady in the back My name is Roberta Tracy. I From 454 St. 454 st. George road It feels like Williston is at another critical junction For a period of time. I left Vermont and moved to Chicago Go figure And in my north side neighborhood It was filled with 87 foot tall eight story buildings And they were appropriate for an urban environment But I ask our buildings this size really appropriate For a suburban and rural community like Williston Buildings this tall will radically change the character Of our town they co-opt viewscapes And dramatically alter roofscapes Most importantly Is this is permitted it will signal that Williston is open to becoming an urban community And by extension The zoning changes will increase the already incredible pressure Felt by landowners such as myself and my husband To sell their property for development Vermont has to be smarter than this We need to think out of the box if we are going to provide affordable housing That makes sense for the character of our state Buildings like the one proposed are not intended for subsidized or low income Or even much needed affordable housing Buildings that are 87 feet tall are intended for people of means They are willing to pay and can afford to pay for the viewscapes And I wonder if the message I wonder what the message is that the select board wants to send And what do you the select board see as the future character of our town And have you truly considered some of the unintended consequences that could arise From approving such a zoning change And is this what the precedent you want to set for the character of our town And the message you want to give for the future of our town Obviously, I appreciate the work that you have done. It has been I know A journey for you But I'm not sure that this is the solution To the housing problems we face and I Completely do not agree That it is at all what Williston needs Or wants Thank you very much. Thank you Yes, sir Jay Patrillo Wilson resident I just had a curiosity. What do you consider affordable housing? How much rent? What type of price for a house I think put the department planning can answer that letter Well, I'm just wondering is the figure realistically driven Or market driven If you go to any app The median household income in vermont is 63 k. That's household income Based on this with a current mortgage rate and a credit score of 700 current mortgage rate for 30 year fixed Is 7.2 percent So a purchase price 10 000 down You're looking at houses for 195 k Okay, that's not going to happen Then if you look at rent calculator The average median income for chitney county is 40 k per single individual That person cannot afford any apartment currently available right now in wilson So You want to build taller? Sure build taller But what kind of guarantees can you offer? That it's going to be affordable housing For real people to afford to live there Based on immediate income On top of that If you build taller How many complexes And for those of you who've been to any city, there's something called a canyon effect When you walk between buildings on a sunny day One side of the street will be in shade depending where the sun is Another side of the street will be sunny So who gets the sunny side of the street? And there's a jazz song called that so again Being realistic here and I've seen many phases of building in wilson And i've seen a lot of unfulfilled promises Of various projects being built And it doesn't take rocket science to figure out The more residential areas you have The more you're going to need more infrastructure as mr martel pointed out And also the need for schools So if we're willing to go that route Come up with a better plan That's it Move to this side of the room and we'll Lady go over here I send you provost. I live right on wilson road Not half a mile from this project And I ask people That agree with this project. I ask any of them. Where do they live? Do they live where all this traffic and congestion is they live where the population is is Supposed to be increased by thousands the traffic the impact The everything that comes with that the crime the All of it do they live there all of the people That think this is such a great project. So it'll keep this sprawl from where they live But yet the people that live close to this They live in it Like I do It's not right These buildings on this height belong in a city not even burlington Do we want wilson to be a burlington? I don't I go down there and there's drugs dealing on the corner Behind the buildings where no one can see because they're so tall in the alleys We want that for wilson I feel like that's what we're looking at buildings do not need to be that high There's none of the buildings around here. They should stay with the existing zoning This should not be exempt from that And it can be done in a way that does not impact The way our town looks and feels And the outline people that live close to this the traffic is going to be Undeniably enormous you've built all these buildings in maple tree place and in Chelsea place, I mean and finney crossing So they're close to the road Where else are the roads going to widen to when the traffic is so much after the term of this whole project is done And you have thousands and thousands of more people here They're going to impact the center of our town our town.   Well, sorry It shouldn't be that way and I do respect all the time that's gone into this, but I don't feel like it's been Some of it I don't feel like it's been genuine because When you look at what they did in chelsea place and finney crossing How badly That looks in a lot of respects how it's not cohesive how a lot of things aren't And now you're trying to make up for it on the other side of the road. I feel like or even over I just feel like This is not right. It should be left to the town people And there shouldn't be a law against that either. I'm sorry, but I don't get that But be respective to what's around it instead of making it look like a willyston city not a willyston town And be respectful of the people that live close to where all this traffic is going to be And the enormous amount of people that are going to be here and as mr. Martel did say The infrastructure does not allow for this at all I've had numerous people on that person on the historical board other places that say A lot of people don't understand the impact of how many people you're saying you're that this is going to allow to be in the center of our willyston Times up Yeah, thank you Are you all from the side? Yes And i'm a member of the planning commission And I just wanted to share that the planning commission as we put in a letter to you Is working on affordable housing as a separate project called inclusionary zoning because it's so important And then we thought we would risk not doing a good job of that if we combined that with the taft corner So I want to make sure people know that that that we recognize and appreciate that the other thing is that on height We're talking about 87 feet of a peaked roof. That's not of living space and The planning commission took a tour members of us took a tour with the consultant and with staff members And we looked at buildings around chitin and county and we tried to figure out what would make sense And so our vision is not the vision that i'm hearing people express and I heard someone say there could be eight stories in 87 feet and that's what I would have thought But if you put a big peaked roof on top of something it could be 87 feet and not appear that high from the street Where you can't see the roof etc etc So I almost feel as though the Fact that we are allowing pitched roofs and incentivizing them is creating a misconception about height and a problem and I just want to say this in my personal opinion But I think it's also probably the planning commissions That the reason why we entered this project was because people were unhappy with the way development was going at taft corners They didn't like that new hotel. They didn't like the the apartment buildings at finney crossing They didn't like that every developer's ideas had sort of their own Look and feel and we didn't have a place called taft corners And so, you know, we had finney crossing and maple tree place, etc. We didn't have taft corners And so this is intended as a long term Sort of design It's not a project It's not a plan to do any particular number of houses is to say when houses are built When residential is built here's the plan that has to follow And that actually makes it easier for the developer as well as for the Town because you don't have to review everyone in detail because it's laid out as a form-based code Now we may have gotten some things wrong I'm sure we did and we made revisions right up till the last minute And you've made some revisions since and what I would say is that if you Agree that we need to make a change in how development is going We need to get this on the books And then if we want to revisit building height We should do that as one of our first things to look at for amendment Because a lot of people I respect greatly are Having a problem with that and I think if they had seen what I saw in developing it It we would be able to reach a compromise and it might be less than what's in the code now, but I feel like We need the code that's all I want to say And just being where we're looking we as a planning commissioner trying to look 50 years out for the town Thank you I think we'll go to zoom now. There's our folks there who wish to Speak yep, uh folks on zoom I zoom I see with your hand raised What I'll do is I'll I'll unmute you and um, so I'll have three minutes to speak to the board So first I'll see debra has uh your hand raised I'll connect you right now Hi, can you hear me? Okay, thank you. Um, my name is debra mute you and I'll be reading a letter um on marcy casso's behalf Marcy and I are both on sustainable willistan together and I support her letter as well She is home observing yum kippur this meeting. Um, this evening and couldn't attend this meeting So here's the letter which I believe she also has submitted Um, dear select board It is my sincere wish that you adopt the form-based code for willistan's town plan this evening The refinements that remain unresolved tonight can be worked on after the plan is adopted If the plan is not adopted tonight, I fear that in effect Developers will be given an extension to develop without any of the constraints of the new plan The planning and zoning department a nationally known planning consultant and his team The planning commission and lots of citizens like me Attended many meetings and came up with a pretty good plan This plan has the potential to reinvigorate willistan and be a win-win for developers people who live here And people who'd like to live here It also can help preserve our wild open spaces and keep them from being filled up with housing developments Let's do this. Thank you marci cas Thanks very much. Thank you I'm next so lisa braden harder lisa. I'm going to connect you right now And you just need to unmute lisa No, sorry about that. Can you hear me now? Great, thanks So I also would like to thank the staff and the select board for their careful consideration Of this difficult but important task I'm committed to affordable housing conversation in willistan because we have a truly unique resource We have undeveloped land near jobs and public transportation That is rare in vermont our zoning like the discussion today Is where we can make real impact on the inclusion and equity gaps that became so clear during coven And also in light of the values statement that you discussed earlier this evening with christa Lee about the values that we have as a community I personally see the biggest impact that willis can can make in terms of DEI in zoning So if 97 of our retail workers and most of our town workers and most of our teachers must leave and Live elsewhere because of our housing prices. We're not an inclusive community and never will be We are creating a town for the top 20 percent of our monsters and for them alone in these Zoning discussions we make choices that reflect our values I heard strong support for affordable housing during the last community feedback session Where I counted about 75 percent of the commenters brought it up and more support On front porch forum So regarding the immediate discussion for today I think that the high compromise is a good response to citizen input I don't share the concern that every view must be saved above all other considerations in our town But I did see the significant concern from the community That said the community concern for affordable housing has also come out in all of these discussions And I think it's been left out of this compromise Even as developers that are being handed the potential for higher profits So the lack of consideration for affordable housing During this compromise period isn't a disappointment to me. Thank you very much Jeff online. I see you have your hand raised. I'll I'll meet you right now Can you guys hear me?  So bear with me. So Everyone that doesn't know me I own a property on tax foreigners and I also own a company called holly one of the largest employers in wilson And I want to commend the Oh, there you are Sorry about that to develop Yeah, so I got a call On the work done to set some guidelines around development and also to develop a A structure to allow for the building of housing now. It may not be affordable housing potentially But I will tell you that supply demand Is a you know economic thing that works quite well and when you introduce housing And landlord's eventually have to compete for the business of a tenant because there's enough housing It becomes affordable and vermont has a problem and we have a problem attracting employees, especially young employees To the state of vermont This also develops an area that's walkable where there's a mixture of business and living That has worked well. I I I I don't live in wilson I own a building there and that's where our company is But in south thirlington in the city center I I've been very impressed with what developed first have done with the form-based code The buildings are very very attractive looking And integrated quite nicely And this will I think a couple people said they're concerned about how everything fits in This is how you get things to fit together and standardize the look and feel Of an area. I think will is that is sitting on an opportunity to do big things It's got great resources. It's a great place for employers like holly to do business And I am fully supportive of the changes And the form-based code and I think it will develop over time for the statements But I think a great first step is adopting it and then working together into the future to to change it as needed Thank you. Sorry, everyone online terry. That's it Anyone else on this on the room? This gentleman here then Thank you My name is bruce roy and i'm a 20-year resident of wilson and full disclosure I'm also running for the house of representatives representing wilson. I want everybody to to know that as my speak I I'm one of and I am one of the folks who signed the letter that this was this that mr. Cook presented I In my course of campaigning I'm learning from a lot of people that they don't feel their voices are being heard whether it's at the town level Or at the state level. So what I'm going to ask is that the select board? pause Don't go forward with this thing as a select board measure, but listen to what people are saying folks like mr. Martel and Because it has far-reaching consequences what you're going through right now changing this code and what it's going to do across the street You know what the plan is at the crossing there I suggest you put it to the vote of the people the people Well, I haven't been heard They are not being listened to they're not being reacted to and I think the best solution for this town Is let the people decide about this thing that has the most consequences Thanks I don't have anything written this time My name is joy soston and I I've lived in wilson for 35 years and I just want to say I don't question the work the planning commission has done. I really don't I I admire your knowledge Um, you've informed me a lot the last meeting. I was really impressed Um, he knows what he's doing And he knows how to build I'm sure But again, I I think 88 or 87 feet. I don't even know what we're playing with here But is just too high for our town Um, I'd like you to keep the maximum height that was on the form base code of 64 feet And I think with 64 feet, you can even add a peaked roof And I know that the planning commission was listening to the community because the buildings that were built A lot of people were disappointed with and my hopes is that this form base code will allow us to have really unique buildings And a unique space to our town I don't know what else to say other than um, I fought the mall and the mall won Um And they told us before that was built That there would be no increase in taxes. We wouldn't need any more police officers We wouldn't need a new school And they must have thought we were I don't know dumb Because all those things were needed. We have in two schools now And who knows what this will do to the high school so I'd really like you to keep the height that the form base code has in place And that's it. And again, thank you for the time to talk Thank you for the work of the planning commission and um, I'm just so glad everybody's here I was here all by myself last time Uh anyone else on this side of it? Yes All right, my name is Dan boom. How are we live at 45 45 st. George road here in williston I really appreciate all the work you folks have done. Thank you for bringing all this In and they had transparency in the open process. It's been quite incredible and I appreciate it When our family gave way and allowed marshall avenue to go through the farm on the corner of brunel road and Where marshall avenue is now we had no idea that we'd be talking in a few years about 87 foot housing Going in in that same pastor But here we are and so I'm trying to wrap my mind around time and change and one of the things that concerns me, um with what happens with form base is owning in this way is that It's going to be grandfathered into the future Whatever gets chosen can happen and when people do build those things That's not going to be like five years later. Whatever people going to be able to say. Oh, I hate it I can't stand it. Why do we allow this to happen? What happens now goes on for for forever? So we have to think in terms of that and try to come up with a ways that we can carefully and slowly Bring this process in and make sure that it's all been considered and I appreciate the openness that has been going into these considerations I would like to see, you know, the cluster development. It'll help us with our property where the logging operation is going on on st George road I would really like to see it connected to that Low-income affordable housing so that it is interconnected. It is not a separate document That comes up later that may or may not get connected to what has already been built and is permanently there for forever So and I would also really appreciate it if we could somehow connect The other aspect of this town to what's going to happen there because if this Cluster development in this form-based zoning is going to happen It would be really really fantastic if the zoning also connected it so that we could have more incentive Incentives incentives to keep our property open so that our 180 acres is not an under pressure to be Developed because it is now so much closer to this huge area that is being put into 87 foot houses. Thank you. Thank you Anyone else on the right hand side that wants to speak tonight A lot on the left hand side. Anybody who hasn't spoken yet wishes to speak Yes South Brown Hill Road grew up under the auspice of the pyramid mall coming So all I have to say is It grieves me when I drive and I do appreciate all the work Everyone's done But it grieves me as I drive through Essex and I see all these huge buildings that dwarf the land I drive through Winooski now and it's the same thing. There's no concept of Good land use and everything feels crowded and to me This is probably dramatic, but is it a trojan horse? So where are we going? Where is this going to take us? And yeah, I'm a Vermonner. So it matters. I think wilson is a lovely farming community I know Growth and change is inevitable, but it would be nice to keep uh thomas chitin in mind as we move forward Thank you. Thank you Anyone else on this side of the room? Yes All right All right, let's get Dave martel so I guess To make it quick. I guess I know the zoning board gentlemen has done a lot of work on this And I guess there was a couple things that just kind of bothered me like right from the get-go when I went to the website I looked at the pdf documents which are very impressive about the new codes and all the designs all the measurements Is very well done But I also make comments to everybody that all the buildings in there were all three-story buildings None of them were six-story buildings or five stories with an attic So they talked about they had a building drawing with three stories with a roof and they go 87 feet to the top of the fifth floor Visually when everybody looks at that documentation very extremely misleading because I'm looking at it. Hey, that looks great Well, that's not an 87 building 87 foot or whatever was to the top of the fifth floor What are the original measurement was and then you had the 1412 pitch We could add another 50 foot to the roof would make it like 120 130 foot roof building overall height So I thought that was very Misleading and you know just very deceiving and that really kind of bothered me and I made plenty of comments about having that change But it never changed Now we also mentioned that all the work the surveys 2000 people going to the website I've been at the town website at least a hundred times probably even more within the past few months Going to the website doesn't mean you're for or against just just means I went to the website I'm against it. I'm not against everything in it. Don't get me wrong There's lots of things in the four big codes, which I do like One of the things I didn't like which is going to add a lot of cost for the contractors the build the the building owner is All the buildings have to be the roofs have to be fitted And rig and designed for solar panels Even if you're not going to put solar panels So if you've got a massive building 1412 pitch like the original design was you're talking hundreds of thousand dollars to put that Infrastructure into the roof. They'd be ready to go for solar panels. You're going to plug them in. They're ready to go That's a huge added added cost to the building So there are things that I didn't care for The the survey information be honest you did 270 surveys What were they for against nobody knows I had 300 people send me an email What they for against nobody knows so they're saying there's a lot of data out there And I'm sure they went out did some legwork I didn't know about any of this until I heard somebody say hey, you know, they want to put in these You know 140 foot no They told me the building did the research did the math calculation 130 foot buildings And that's when I started getting involved with it But to be honest with you if it wasn't for that I would have never know, you know, I just I never I was lazy I never went to the town meetings. I never got involved and now I am I'm getting more involved in But I think the data That they're presenting is just kind of misleading you when you say 200 people that doesn't mean anything for against doesn't mean anything And if I do believe correctly when they first started the project They actually had a meeting with the major developers In town and asked them for their opinion and they told them there was lots of issues with this that were not good It's going to add cost. It didn't have flexibility Which adds cost to the projects. So I think yes, there's good things in the in their new zoning Form-based codes. There's some things that are not good in it You know, I think we really need to have more people get involved in it re-evaluate it make a decision I don't think passing it now and saying hey, we'll come back later on and fix that That's not going to work because it never happens. You know, it's they're just gonna run with it So I think we need to stop reevaluate it. You have more people involved in it And like uh, Bruce Roy said and I said earlier put it to a town vote Let's get people involved. Let's do the research. Let's do the planning Let's bring something to the town that the people really want The building developers said that in the beginning they like the old way of doing it and the reason they like this because They got to interact with the select board And in the work with people they didn't actually not have said, okay, so they never reacted But I was told they did so basically They there's there's got to be a way that everybody gets involved and helps make these decisions Nobody I blame everybody I've talked to nobody wants to see An 87 foot building in Williston and they definitely want to see our department Six minutes So is there anyone zoom who wishes to make a public comment? One more person. Um, Denise, I'm going to connect you right now. You'll just need to unmute Denise Okay. Hi. I'm I'm actually not Denise. I'm actually Nancy Brooks. I'm actually peter Brooks's wife And um, I'm uh I hope that my my three minutes are okay, even though he's spoken um, I I want to say that um, I I know that a lot of work was done on this during, um Uh, 21 2020 and 2021, but I think we have to realize that that was during the pandemic And people really weren't paying attention. You know people were worried about getting sick and and um They're loved ones getting sick and and um, it's It was a time when people were not focused on this kind of thing and then I I also need to mention that I have noticed what um, David Martel talked about where When I looked at the pictures of what the buildings were supposed to be look look like and the streets were supposed to look like um, and and this even goes back to um an ad I think in in june of looking the planning people were looking for another hire And it said, you know, help us plan the future of wiliston and the buildings were two and three stories high and it looked all very comfortable And um, it's certainly not 87 feet high. So You know, I'm opposed um to the 87 foot high buildings and I want to reiterate that That 90 people have signed our letter opposing that um, and uh, you know, um, we're Just concerned that that's not what the people of wilson want for our town Thank you Thank you Any one else on zoom No one else on zoom So I think we've heard from everybody that wanted to speak tonight and Um, we'll be ready to close the public hearing and then go into deliberations by the board as to whether or not We will do anything tonight as far as approving the It or making other changes So I'd be looking for a motion to close the hearing. I had some more questions for matt Yeah, I would but we'll be doing that during our deliberations Wouldn't that be part of the hearing Generally, it's just taking public comment, but you're part of the public. So I guess you could ask questions It's a procedural question whatever whatever the chair thinks is the right process. It's fine I would prefer at this point to close the public hearing go into our deliberations that we have We do certainly have questions. Then I had moved to close the public hearing on the development by las men So is there a second second? Is there any discussion on the motion? Hearing none. All those in favor of the motion to close the public hearing say aye Okay, now we are into deliberations on the uh, form-based code and we're Ask matt to join us and We have a few questions. I'm sure All right, I'll start I just uh, I'll start sure. Um, uh Couple just clarification points that I just wanted to ask you. So, um, you know, wherever everybody's talking about the the maximum height of 87 feet That includes obviously the the the roof What is the actual with a five-story building? What is the actual height of the building itself that's allowable? Regardless of the roof Yeah, so the maximum height to the top plate the top of that fifth story is 64 feet. Okay So then the 87 feet is assuming that they build on from there almost a extra 20 Look at my math is really terrible 23 foot picture. Yeah, so we we imagined a building 70 feet deep with a 12 12 pitch roof going all the way up to a peak and that would fit under the 87 foot limit Right. Okay, if somebody were to do that Okay and then currently What, you know, I guess the the new hotel is the is the largest building That we have being developed in town. Is that correct? Um, so we we measured that at 48 Yeah, I think we have a few in finny that are closer to 52 You know depending on how you look at them, but to the to the peak of that roof in both cases at 52. Okay All right, um, and then you know a lot of folks, um, and maybe you don't have these Have questions about what is determined as affordable housing in town or in that in town, but in state and national levels And so if you could just review what is considered affordable housing And then also the difference between affordable and low income if you could sure so, um We first off housing that's affordable is housing that a given household can afford spending no more than 30 percent of its income Um on that housing in the case of a rental on on rent and utilities in the case of an ownership unit on mortgage taxes and insurance So you take your household income? Are you spending 30 percent?  Are you spending more than 30 percent on your housing? So then when we define affordable housing in the zoning bylaw, which which is a definition that stays under the draft form based code We look at two different levels We look at affordable to a family making 100 of the median income And we look at a family making 80 percent of the median income or rather a household making Income at those two levels We use the burlington south burlington metropolitan statistical area as our area that we draw our median income from That's a larger region that includes williston burlington south burlington up into the champlain islands a little bit Um, and we use numbers that are provided by the department of housing and urban development So, um, I had occasion to look these numbers up Today, uh, or actually just a few days ago, but they probably haven't changed Uh, a two person household Making that median income Makes 85 812 dollars Uh, a three person household makes 95 562 dollars Those are those are the numbers that have been collected as of the most recent quarter So if we look at that in terms of a rental A a three person household Could spend no more than about 2,400 a month on their housing Without exceeding that 30 limit So either either on their rent and utilities or on their mortgage taxes and insurance So, you know, and you you've heard somebody quote sort of a a calculation How do you turn that into a purchase price for a home? That's exactly what we do When we when we deal with perpetually affordable housing that's ownership We require a deed restriction to be placed on it and we require the minimum or rather maximum sale price to be verified every time That unit turns over we have about a half dozen units that we manage through zoning enforcement under that system Uh, last I looked the interest rates were quite a bit lower and that that house price limit for a three bedroom home was Over 450 thousand dollars And and the rental limits were similar to what they are now about 2000 for a one bedroom about 2200 for a two bedroom So when somebody in our current system Promises perpetually affordable housing at 100 of the area median income As a part of their proposal for a development They identify which units will be price restricted in that way And they are audited periodically by me as zoning administrator one of my staff Usually once a year we say Please give me your rental amounts for the affordable units you promised Um, and we check it against the HUD numbers in the case of ownership There's a requirement that the zoning administrator issue a certificate of compliance every time that ownership unit turns over That verifies that the new sale price is still in keeping with the median price for affordable So I said we look at um 100 medium. We also look at a lower level 80 medium 80 and below is where That lower income generally starts We incentivize Things that are affordable at 80 medium or below More than we incentivize things that are at 100 medium or below and it plays into the town's growth management system Something we haven't really talked about tonight But is proposed to currently remain in place through any adoption of the form-based code So keeping in mind uh in the taft corners area both within and without the form-based code area The town's growth management system on average allows for the creation of 50 dwelling unit equivalents per year Balanced with 37 at market rate and 13 that can only be built if they're affordable at 100 medium or below We look at a 10 year horizon Some years you might have 50 out of 50 build some years you might have more than that some years you might have less But over that 10 year stretch It's going to average to about 50 dwelling unit equivalents per year Remembering that a one-bedroom or studio is one half of a dwelling unit equivalent a two-bedroom or larger is one dwelling unit equivalent those limits which Are really underpinned by the town's major constraints it faces in terms of sewer capacity Would remain in place under the form-based code proposal What is the what is the maximum? I'm sorry just the maximum number of units that are allowed to be built per year again You said 50 dwelling unit equivalents per year in the taft corners area in the growth center You're remembering that at this point the boundaries of the form-based code area are are within that So we have units both within and without the growth center that would play into that same limit Okay, thank you So if we could get back to building height our favorite subject Matt one of the things I found very helpful for me was the memo you put together In july We talked about the various aspects the select board was going to talk was considering Including building heights And they're I'm just hoping you can explain how building heights will work in the Tafts corner form-based code area Because as I look at this I understand there are various districts And the various districts have different building heights. In fact one just two districts have the five story One district has a four story and one district has a three story You also pointed out and that In at least one of those district The building height will actually be less than is currently allowed So I think there's some Explaining that needs to go on if you will about how The various districts are set up and how that Whatever the right word is matches the building heights that are associated with that district And what is that intended to do? Sure. Does that make sense? I can I can try to tease it apart Um, so what we're dealing with under our current zoning in I think all if not 99 of the Tafts corner zoning districts that are inside the growth center We have a maximum allowed height of 52 feet If the the building provides either structured parking meaning parking underneath the building or a certain percentage of its dwelling units as affordable It's 30 usually So you can build a 52 foot high building Um, down in Blair park where the where the four story hotel is being built. You can build a 52 foot high building You know sort of a stone's throw from the fire station at the edge of the what we call the la pierre property You can build a 52 foot building in the middle of town at Finney crossing If you do structured parking or Affordable and you know, we find generally most of those multi-story buildings are going to park underneath Because it just starts to make sense to do that So the four base code is an attempt to take a more nuanced approach to Where allowable heights and and building bulk happens and I'll get back to that If you were to look at a map of the form base code area All of the street frontages, which is how you decide what building height you're allowed to build You look at the color of the street on the map that that building would be on all of the yellow Which we call the strollable neighborhood Is adjacent to the boundary of the growth center to the residential zoning district In other words closest to the lower intensity single-use zoning district That tap corners district or tap corners growth center butts up against In those districts you have that three-story limit And that's part of it, but you also have a 7 000 square foot building footprint limit Which is half the size less than half the size Of the 20 000 square foot footprint limit that you see Throughout the rest and there are a couple of other dimensional standards like maximum building width and building depth that come into play there as well It's the lower intensity smaller Generally row home friendly District within the form base code you won't be able to build a 52 foot Building that's at its full bulk like the 52 foot buildings you have today in those districts You will be able to build a three-story building with a maximum height of the top plate of 43 feet And you can put a pitch roof on it and some piece of that pitch roof volume may exceed 52 feet But it'll be the pointy part above the 52 foot limit So the the size the bulk the depth the width and the shape And to some degree the height of what kind of building is allowed in that district is is changing significantly and then that same sort of Nuance plays out throughout the other districts So somebody tonight mentioned if you've ever gotten an email for me in the last two years There's a picture with these buildings from the form base code area rendered in my signature line And it says help us play in the future of taft corners It's a rendering of trader lane a road that the town might make an effort to build someday and Trader lane is that next step up. It's not the five story. It's the four story Area it's on it's imagined as being A little lower intensity than some of the other places because there's an opportunity to do something quite continuous along it And really really make it a pleasant Residential street with a lot of access to green space So there four stories again pitch roof on top You'd never make it to 87 feet there even with the 1412th roof pitch we allow So be it then we have our taller areas that do allow the five stories with the attic story on top Where a a relatively steep pitch roof might actually make it to that 87 foot limit Am I getting close to answering your question? Yeah, one thing that might help is explaining Where are the areas where the tallest buildings could go? You know the five story now limited to the 87 feet And where are the areas where buildings aren't allowed to be five story? They could either be four or three stories, but not more sure So We gave you guys A nice shiny updated map has the red yellow and orange colors on it This shows the boundary changes the select board requested And i'm going to try to refer to it in a way that I can just describe it in words But I do need to look at it while I talk about this so I'm starting closest to the mahan farm property the cornfield across from The fire station when you when you cross out of that property over the tributary to the allenbrook You're approaching cottonwood First you see that three-story area in the outer street Around what we call the la pierre property And then in the back of the property you see that what we would Have as light orange the transitional neighborhood. That's the four-story area Along route two and within the cottonwood project itself. You see the dark orange And that's the town center designation where you could do five stories So you have five stories along the route two and two a corridors in general And sort of wrapping their corners as they go into places like two in talcott two in zephyr Two in holland at lo bean and healthy living etc then If you if you look around Up you do that up route two a And then if you were to turn to your right going northbound on two a You drop back down as you come in on alpine drive or sorry not alpine drive now On zephyr road or night lane You start with the five-story zone You drop to the four and then you drop down to the three as you go out into the outer parts of finny crossing Similarly, you start with the five-story along route two a you drop to Four around half of Blair park Some of the rest of Blair park is in that five-story town center configuration Looking down into taft corners park Most of taft corners park allows the five-story configuration part of the wisdom here was that we're going we're going down slope Into a lower lying area In an area where there might be some significant redevelopment But as I mentioned if you look along trader lane and around that long rectangular green you see the light orange We're back to transitional neighborhood at four stories there Most of maple tree place built out as it is five stories town center Again dropping lower as you come back out to cottonwood okay My next question it may be more of a statement than it is a question which is One of the stated goals I should say stated goals one of the Benefits of allowing taller buildings is The goal of making Apartments more affordable housing more affordable I'm really questioning whether that's enough of a incentive to drive The market to doing that So my question is along the lines of Would Does willis then if willis then wants to create more affordable housing Does more need to be done in addition to what the Tafts corner form-based code allows in other words that we maybe we meet in the town of willis then need to adopt more I don't know what the right word is Forceful isn't what I'm looking for unfortunately. It's all that comes to mind, but stronger That have more definitive requirements not incentives, but maybe requirements Is is is that what is needed to Really change How much affordable housing will is then is developing into the future? I think there is a question developers in willis then are creating into the future I think there is a question in there. Um, and I can try to answer it and squeeze it. Um Yes, more can be done in willis then zoning to Facilitate it encourage the creation of affordable housing The form-based code Sets the stage for a built form that's likely to accommodate affordable housing in a way that makes it worth somebody's while to build Um Now somebody once famously said if you go to home depot and ask where the affordable 2x4s are You'll be pointed through the exact same 2x4s that are used to build the market rate housing There are fixed costs to creating housing. There are economies of scale that come with density There are more things that can be done in zoning Chapin caner testified before you tonight about the planning commission's upcoming work on inclusionary zoning and considering that some level of affordable units at some percentage Be required in some projects of a certain size And this is a tool that is that is used throughout the county region and country But I would go further than that and say to truly get the amount of affordable housing that's needed It probably can't all be accomplished in zoning It will be accomplished at williston's level by a combination of zoning investment in the affordable housing trust fund Careful planning for the possibly the acquisition and use of town lands for affordable housing Um continuing to implement policies like impact fee relief for affordable projects Just a whole array of things. It's it's a complicated problem. It requires a multifaceted solution It requires the town working in partnership with the state and federal government with the nonprofit sector and with the private sector And really taking on some Skill levels and capacities that we don't have all of right now As I sort of have said to a lot of folks about the form base code This sets the stage inclusionary zoning could come in behind this and and add a metric to get something Growth management does something right now There are 13 units a year that are only going to get built if they're permanently restricted at 100 medium affordable or below If if if they cannot be they will not be built. You'll build 37 units a year We have that policy today. We're keeping that policy Um but I watch where projects are happening in in my backyard in city center south burlington And they're happening partially because of that community's form base code But they're also happening because of partnerships between the city and the nonprofit and public and private sector um, and they're happening because of investments and tax increment financing and other other tools that willison has not yet taken on to make those things happen Okay My last question is We've heard several folks tonight ask us to um To slow down To stop put a halt Until we can achieve various different things So my question is is You know, I think I understand what the benefits that could be Maybe I don't And but i'm not sure I understand what the liabilities Of doing that would be what would what Is there something we need as we're making a decision whether we should vote or not Or how to vote Are there liabilities we should know about that? A delay would cause for instance, do we have to go into another hundred and day 180 day sort of period of You know, how you have to do things to adopt this ordinance So, um There's a few things okay, one is there's that 150 day period that started on the july 5th hearing that goes away in the First or second week of november and then the old zoning remains in effect. The new zoning is no longer Administered as as if it's an effect and you know, so As this process lengthens the possibility that more development is proposed in taff corners under the old and existing zoning And becomes vested in approvals based on that zoning That that will happen people are proposing development all the time in williston. We're we're processing applications for it all the time And there will be places that will be developed in ways that you know are not compatible with this plan So to the extent that you see merit in this plan Its effectiveness is reduced as somebody develops on a planned green space or somebody puts a single story Sort of low value building in a place that this plan thought something really quite dense could go We there's there's a risk to that There's probably a greater risk that we're we are moving further and further away from all of that public process I talked about and You know, I'll just call back to a couple of things because building height is such a hot topic um, you know, I I came to this board in Early january as the planning commission was beginning to work on its coding And and I wrote you memo. I said, here's here's everything that's going to be controversial about this code Here's everything that's going to really challenge you as decision makers building height was certainly one of those items I can go back to july Of 2021 in the production of the vision plan And all of the work the planning commission put into that All the all the struggle that went into that document included points where we'd get to a point. We'd say well, this is a real issue We need to talk about it But but we need to put it somewhere in the plan and move on And there's a section of that vision plan called overarching issues and one of them is building height And it talks about the understanding the community is coming to that there's a relationship between building height and affordability There's a relationship between building height and density Building height density and energy efficiency building height density and transportation energy efficiency energy efficiency and climate et cetera and Taller buildings are hard to grapple with but there are some things they do That are seen as pot as positives and seen as goals in the town plan In addition to the creation of of an urban village for taff corners center And a walkable place as you know expressed in long-standing desires by the town So there's a struggle that's been going on for some time We we even I and the staff And in the thick of this and in in preparing for the present moment tend to Have our memories get a little fuzzy about how much we put into that And and all those conversations we had with people all those compromises we met all those debates we had with the planning commission and There is a danger if things go much longer of Really having somebody say let's just start over And I don't Think I know the planning commission doesn't have the capacity to do it again. They've told me as much They've all said I have to promise that I'll never make them work this hard again And I have And so there those the liabilities maybe are not especially tangible somebody might develop something under the old code Um more so there's there's some momentum that might be lost the other part is There is a really fundamentally different framework Embedded in this code We're starting from the public realm. We're starting from the green spaces. We're starting from the streets We're starting from the understanding that those municipal facilities Will form the bedrock of a new type of community Where those resources are shared and where That community is supported by and enhanced by the private development that that comes out and faces it in the form of buildings that meet this code That's a really fundamentally different framework than saying how many acres do you have and I'll tell you how many apartments you can build It's really really different And that's the lego set as I said to the planning commission more than a year ago By the lego set you can build what's on the box. You can build something else But if you don't have the framework You don't you don't have that ability to build that public realm that this plan calls for You mentioned second week in november. What was that in relationship to it's 150 days from the july 5th hearing Okay, and what happens after that after that? We would no longer administer this code as if it has been adopted So in other words, we've been in that zoning vortex where both the existing zoning and the proposed zoning are in effect That essentially puts a pause on the submission of new development plans for the code area Until either the new one is adopted and the old is repealed or we go past 150 days And the new one is just an idea again And we'll take another 150 days Um It you know to do whatever we we do with it may it may not You know, I I think at this point if you were considering something based on public testimony, you'd probably be telling me To knock a story or two out of these height limits It's a substantive change it requires the warning of a new public hearing if you do that if you if you change Any dimensional thing in this you've got to warn a new public hearing. We'd have to go out at least about a month To do that That's that's the time liability right now Thank you. All right. Thank you Ted so um matt just want to cover a couple things. Um, I'll try to be quick that the Growth management system that the town has in place and just let's focus on the one that has Governes taxed corners. Um that That is a management system that takes into account sewer capacity. Is that part of it? Uh, educational capacity of the schools. Um, and other infrastructure Things. Yes. Okay. Um, and that limits the number of new, uh, housing equivalents or whatever the term is Um 250 50. Yes. All right Okay, let's put that on the back burner and then the the other thing is I heard somebody say that there's there's no requirement for open land That's maps that I saw and showed a number of Spaces that had to be for open land for parks, etc. Things like that, right? That's correct. Okay And in fact, as I recall, that's one of the things that the developers didn't like about it They're saying, you know, why is there a park in my middle of my field? Sure I didn't read it there. Um, okay So taking into account the growth management system and the, um Uh, fact that in a lot of these Areas that are on the map will not have five story buildings allowed in it um One of the one of the things that was posted earlier today was that there would be 100 apartment buildings that they're planned to build around 100 apartment buildings. Is that is that Reasonable to think that there are going to be 100 apartment buildings in This area of town Maybe in maybe in 50 to 70 years So I based that answer to that question on just counting the rooftops in some of the Visualizations visualizations that were prepared during the vision plan imagining A maximum build out we we set that date at 2070 in that graphic Um, and it's a little bit of a gas But envisioning sort of every Every space that's not planned for a park with every single brand new street being built probably 40 million dollars worth of You know private investment here Um, and some parking lots being infilled over top of which which is feasible sometimes But not others due to long-term leases, etc That's a that's about 100 buildings of some kind Um Not all five-story I go back to the map some of those on the vision plan are in places that aren't aren't Allowed to build a five-story configuration But yeah, there's there's about a hundred Reasonable size apartment buildings in the vision plan at full build out that 2070 scenario. Okay, so that's 48 years Okay, and and but that would be limited by the growth management system that has 50 units Coming online every year correct um and Would each of these buildings have 60 apartments in them? No They would vary. Yeah, why would they vary? Well, when you when you look at what's allowed to be built so In our in our most intense zone one of the things to remember is we have a maximum width and a maximum depth 80 by 180 Runs you about 14,000 square feet if I'm remembering my math and my head, right? So then you stack up your your stories We figure about a thousand square feet per unit At that footprint size you pretty much have to get into the five stories or maybe five stories plus a little bit of that attic story to see 60 to 70 units But that's not feasible on every site First off, it's not allowed in every form area second off When we've looked at actual sites in williston and imagined Placing the maximum footprint building on that site accommodating minimum open area, which is a requirement in the code accommodating surface parking And also putting some parking under the building We run out of parking Frankly before we run out of building height To the tune of a story or two lower than the maximum allowed it is very likely that it will be a fairly rare site Right now in williston without building some really significant infrastructure or parking two levels below ground That you can that you can get that five story or five story plus one attic story building in Our parking minimums for residential are still Generally working out to two spaces per unit For two bedroom units 1.75 spaces per unit for one one bedroom unit That's that's still a pretty high minimum You can't fit it all under the building You've got to use some of your site for it. You've got to put 15 percent of your site into private open area Some of that you can put into balconies and rooftop gardens. Sometimes sometimes you can't you've got to find it on the ground so you start doing that with a site and I like transit as much as everybody But we're not quite to the point of building buildings or building apartments that come with no parking In williston yet. Maybe we are someday. Maybe this plan anticipates that in toward the end of that 50 year cycle, but There's headroom in there That would require significant changes in either infrastructure growth management or the way we transport ourselves to be achieved And then, you know, one of the things that i'm the tenor of some of the concerns Um That would concern me too if I if I thought this is that that there is a plan That there is like like finny crossing was a planned Development or cottonwood is a planned development or south ridge was planned has has is there Is developers come forward and is is there Somebody asking to create a plan to build 100 apartment buildings all at once in williston. No This is zoning Williston has zoning today We talked a lot when we were developing the vision plan And thinking about some of the things that we're kind of pushing people's Conceptions about taff corners that If you drew the maximum picture of what could be built under today's zoning And called it a plan. I think it would be quite controversial Just just based on the development standards we have today We're like any other municipality We do our best to come up with rules that are Fair and constitutional and can be administrated and reflect the the goals of the municipal plan But lots of different things can be built under various zoning regimes And I often wanted wished I had spent a little bit of consultant money Having somebody draw taff corners built to the maximum allowed under the current zoning And the difference is the buildings get wider. They stay shorter. They get wider And that was one of those things we had a lot of people react to when we asked for opinions about what should change about the development standards and taff corners So my last question we kind of nailed at home and that I know you would not comment on the aesthetics of a building But I've I've heard from people that they they don't particularly like the Blair park hotel Can could another Blair park hotel type building be built Under the current zoning if we didn't adopt the new bylaws Yeah, um, you know, it's it's four stories because it has parking underneath It's pulled up to the street because the zoning wants buildings to be pulled up to the street That's true in most of taff corners It contains a use hospitality that's allowed throughout the the zoning districts of the growth center It has a pitched roof on top albeit a relatively flat one You know, and it was approved under Williston's zoning by a you know, a public hearing in front of the drb with a full staff report We certainly had some finer points we debated about that building and what would make it compliant, but it You know, it was approved under a set of zoning rules virtually identical to the ones that exist in taff corners today Thank you. Thank you Gordon So I've got a lot of feedback from town residents on this And I think first and foremost most of them started their emails with thanking the planning commission and yourself for the guidance that He given the town and and all the hours that have gone into this and your knowledge of What you do on a daily basis. So I wanted to premise that first I think it was brought up tonight as well But a couple of folks have asked a question around Like how would you answer residents who raised that concern that they were preoccupied with a global pandemic Rather than the propeller the zoning change that taff corners And if there was if any lack of public input during that time period because they were obviously preoccupied with other things I I know you gave data statistics earlier tonight But how would you I guess answer those folks that feel like Maybe that wasn't their biggest concern at the time over the past year and a half or two years Um I I totally sympathize We all had to prioritize a lot of things during the pandemic My office prioritized completely retooling to be able to provide online citizen engagement not just for this project But for every single board we served We we made decisions as early as march 20th of 2020 that we had to continue to Serve the business of the boards that we were assigned to staff and that we had to find a way to do that That would allow people to participate online And to my staff's credit we went out and did it There's probably some online meetings in my community that I didn't go to Because my job got more demanding because my kids school got more demanding because my life got more demanding Because of the pandemic All I can say is I'm very confident in saying that I am my staff and the planning commission and the consultant team that are very best to provide Many many different ways for people to participate whether it was attending an online meeting Filling out a survey sending in an email Having a meeting or a phone call with a staff member responding to a mailing etc and You know We all had to make some decisions about what moved forward and what didn't when the pandemic hit This was a project that we had planned for in in 2019 We had our consultant lined up Or rather we had our funding lined up We had consultants that we quizzed extensively on can you do online engagement? Will it Will it work? Can you show us that you'll do it? We had all of that in mind when we did this And you know this is one of many many decisions that Willis donians and people across the state and country had to had to make in that pandemic So I thoroughly respect that if somebody says, you know, this just fell off my list and I wish I hadn't You know, I wish I'd had time for it. I'm sorry. I didn't I and I'd like a chance now Okay, yeah, here we are I would be remiss if I didn't represent the public of why I'm sitting here Meeting after meeting. So that's just not from me. That's from residents Jeff you stole my second question. So, you know third question that I had Or not I had residents had Well, most residents would support a lot of the aspects of the form-based code How do we as a board adopt this new zoning with the building height as the major concern that's been kicked around the table tonight? Because I think there's a lot of Inception out there from the public on what maybe they have interpreted either from the town or other people in conversation Or Just what They think what this will look like Because I know when I you know when you look at You know this you're sitting here and we're sitting here tonight and you do a great job explaining it But for a lot of folks that just look at something On a graphic and talk about three story four story five story with an attic without pitched roof or not Sometimes I think that can be hard for them to comprehend and I I think the public would want to know like why would we move All of this forward if we can't seem to figure out that one aspect and I know we can go back and amend I've been doing this long enough. So I know we can do that. But if there's that Big of an outcry and and from the public emails that I've gotten that's been the number the number one And I think we would all agree sitting around this table that that's That's the big sticking point here is what is aesthetically is that going to look like? How do we address that to say It's a good thing because I think I mean I've I've read it many times and I'm I'm impressed with You know a set of guidelines that things are going to be followed and things are going to be checked off in a certain way But I think there's a lot of people out there that are just concerned about You know you look left. You look right.  This isn't all gonna happen overnight And you know that developments gonna continue to progress We want to be mindful of open space and all of these things, but I think the height itself is what's sticking point for the public and how do we I guess come to an agreement on that before We pass all this in one one shot Does that make sense? I don't know if I captured that at all, but No, I think you did Height is easy to focus on because it's a number Um, and it has a lot to do with how far away you can see a building from If it's taller, you can see it from further away Yeah, especially when you're approaching taff corners in your car from The top of old creamery road or the village coming up the hill from industrial ab even and That's one way to experience building height Another way to experience is walking down the street and I get it most people in williston and probably most people in this room Did not move to williston to walk down a street but People in williston since 1990 have been saying we want a walkable downtown environment in taff corners And that's what that is So when we did our public outreach And and our our lead up to the intense design sure at We had these things called visual preference surveys Which is a really fancy way of showing people some pictures of streets and saying Which do you like and which do you not like and so if you look back in your vision plan? You'll see pictures that have like red bar green bar underneath them And the defining characteristics of what people said they liked versus they didn't like didn't have much to do with the height of the Buildings in the background It had a lot to do with what was happening on the street where their street trees where their green spaces Where their places for people to walk was at all just cars, etc