first. Hello, hello, everyone. Welcome to the weekly TSC call. I think everybody knows that this is a public call. Everybody is welcome to join in, participate. However, there are requirements to doing so. The first of which is to be aware and live by the antitrust policy. The notice of which is currently displayed. And the other one is to live by the code of conduct, which is linked from the agenda. With that being done, we can move on with the agenda. Let's start with a few announcements. Jessica, do you want to do the Dev Weekly? Sure. So, Dev Weekly newsletter will go out this Friday. It goes out every Friday looking for any updates on projects or events, any new features. Please go in and make a comment if you want us to consider it. But it's a great way to get some more eyeballs on things going on in the technical community. So, please take a look and if you have anything to add, do so. Thank you, Jessica. All right. Otherwise, a quick update on the TSC election. We have now closed the nomination period. And the slate of candidates will be formally announced in the week. I do have one thing here. People who are running, I know that David has reached out to you. Please let us know your formal, the name you want on the ballot, please. So, I know David has reached out to all of you. Just please get back with that so we can finalize the ballot. Thank you. Do you guys know if we have a nomination statement on the weekie for all the candidates? There is one candidate who does not have one yet. Okay. Because I counted, there's like 25 of them. So, I wasn't sure. I didn't want to check on the email. I was lazy. I thought to you guys, we know. So, thank you. So, that means we will have, I guess, 26 candidates. It's a pretty good number. But there are 15 seats, so there is quite a bit of room. But it's good to see people, you know, eager to participate at that level. So, with that being said, let's move on. Then Arun as an announcement he would like to make. Sure. Thanks, Arun. Good morning and good evening. And I quickly wanted to bring up a topic on hackathon initiative that started as part of Hyperledger Social Impact Special, Special Interest Group. So, Hyperledger India chapter has been organizing hackathons for the last two years. In fact, earlier this year, around in March, we had second version. And we did invite all the six and different chapters to participate along with us to get involved in the hackathon. And this request that's the, if I'll make it short, the Hyperledger Social Sick. So, they still had a different perspective or different idea in terms of organizing and what kind of problem statements to solve. And that's getting renewed as of now. And when Nancy reached out asking, can we collaborate again for the next event? I guess the ideas that we are throwing around are, so you can go to the link that is tagged along with the initiative world. So, those are some of the ideas that we have. And one of the idea that interests TSC and probably the rest of the projects is. And it's around getting together as a team from across different communities within Hyperledger and then organizing an event, right? So, here is the invite to all the projects to share some problem statements that you think can be solved as part of hackathon and probably a continuous engagement post hackathon. It could be a smaller problem that we solve in a day or two, or probably it could be a bigger feature that we propose as a solution during the hackathon. And probably ask participants to engage with us on a longer run. So, this is an invite or probably a request to collaborate. And this request will also be sent out to different sick and working groups within Hyperledger. That's it. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Arun. Any questions? Any other announcements anybody would like to make? All right. If not, let's get going. So, quarterly reports. So, we have two reports that have actually been carried over from the week before. And these are Borough and Ursa. I don't know that there's anything new. I haven't seen anything on the pages indicating there was a need for discussion, but this is your chance. Also, so just before the call, I went back to the page that Grace snuck in the Bezu report. But thank you for adding the link and then submitting the report, obviously, Grace. I don't suppose many of you have had a chance to actually review it. So, just, I mean, we'll look at it again next week. But in the meantime, you can review it offline. Any questions or anything anybody wants to discuss on any of those reports? As I indicated in my email, we are missing quite a few. So, that's why, you know, I'm thankful for Grace to step in and do the Bezu one. It'd be good to get the other ones too. So, if you're involved or have any dealings with anybody in those projects, please feel free to ping them and ask them to go ahead and do that. All right? Okay, so then you may have seen the agenda. There is two main parts of the agenda today. The first one is kind of a presentation with a demo from the DCI working group. So, I don't know in which order you guys want to proceed. I think I can give an overview of the proposal and then Peter can jump in and do the demo. Does that sound all right? Sounds good to me. Go ahead. I will share my screen, I guess. So, this is linked in the agenda, but just in case, I'll share my screen here. So, there's a few of us who are part of the diversity, stability and inclusion working group. And we over the last six months, eight months have been working on inclusive naming proposal for Hyperledger to consider. We wanted to bring it here today because partially because the tool that Peter's built, you can talk about it, but it's ready for your review. But obviously, we think inclusive language is really important as a part of, you know, running a strong open source community such as Hyperledger. So, you can see, you know, you can read a lot of this on your own time. I'm not going to read it word for word, but we have kind of three or four recommendations. We wanted kind of bring to the TSC as, you know, ways that we can, you know, make small steps in inclusive language throughout the project. So, just wanted to share it here. I thought this would be a great opportunity. So, the first one, just recommendation one, is for all the projects to consider adding kind of a documentation style guide, inclusive language like disclaimer. So, we've linked here kind of what BASU has for maybe a template that each of the projects could consider.  So, this one, for example, has, you know, considering that everyone is from different backgrounds, of course, in different cultures, avoid potentially offensive terms. So, for example, using a lawless and denialist, it's a whitelist and backlist. You know, talking about kind of how we write inclusive documentation as well. And then we also kind of provide a couple links in the BASU one for, you know, how Microsoft and Google also think about it. So, this is our first recommendation, you know, something small that we can kind of build upon in our documentation guides. The second one is around specific language updates, you know, in our conversations with the working group, we thought a lot about how are we, you know, should we or shouldn't we give exact specific examples and the feedback we kind of received from the group was actually it's really helpful to have specific so everyone can kind of just take it, you know, and copy and paste essentially in their projects rather than coming up with their own. So, we provided just, you know, only four examples here. A couple of them are already implemented in several different projects, but it would be great to see, you know, other projects implement them. For example, we have the four that we kind of identified that are, we think good fixes are, you know, switching master to main in the repo, slave to replicas, blacklist to denialist and whitelist to allow list. So, we wanted to, you know, make sure and then just to be clear, like the DCI link tool, which Peter will talk about in a minute, will help with all make this process a lot easier for the projects to do that and not have to rewrite things or the tool itself kind of helps manage that process for them. So, I'm going to skip number three because I'll Peter talk about it more. And then I know we've talked about the badging proposal. We haven't, I know we haven't quite made a decision on that just yet from the TSE perspective, but we did want to make the recommendation that if the TSE goes ahead with the project badging proposal or having something like that, then inclusive naming is one of the badges that's considered. And that can be so if a project meets recommendation one, recommendation two and recommendation three, then they get inclusive language badge. Any questions before I talk to or I hand it off to Peter? So, I think thank you for doing this. I mean, but so I want to make sure we all understand where we are from a process point of view and what's expected. So, this is the output from the DCI working group. And you're basically making a proposal to the TSE to adopt these recommendations. And so, okay, that's just sorry. Yep, that's what you're proposing. Thanks for clarifying. No, but it's good. But, you know, sometimes we use the main objective and it's better to spell it out. So that's why. And, you know, I don't expect us to this way. I realized this was what was intended. And so I didn't put it up for vote today. I think we can let people think about this. We'll go through the demo next, but we can make a decision next week. So, Tracy has her hand up. Yeah, I don't have any issues with the recommendations. I think I would like to understand how we implement this. So obviously the DCI link tool will implement kind of number two for us. But like, where are we supposed to add this to the guidelines under the tsc.hyperledger.org? Are we supposed to just communicate this out to the maintainers? I just want to make sure I understand kind of what the process is for ensuring that these recommendations are available and slash followed. Question and open to others ideas. One thing that I thought about but is, you know, similar to how the project updates have, you know, have those two questions, shoot, I can't remember which ones they are. We could have a third question that's, you know, have you implemented inclusive language guidelines and include that over the next several quarters? That could be a one-forcing function. But also, yeah, open to the staff's recommendations, too, because obviously they've done these type of things more than I have. I mean, I think this is an ongoing thing, right? I would want to just bring it up for six months in the reports and then let it go. Because I think this is something that needs to continue regardless. It needs to ensure that, you know, as new people come into the projects and into the community that they're thinking about inclusive naming is, you know, should be something that's forefront in everybody's mind as they go through and think through the what they're doing, right? Whether it's writing documentation or writing code or just, you know, participating in the community. Well, I think I like the idea of using the project reports as an opportunity to get this in. But there may be other opportunities, you know, like the code of conduct governs everything we do. And this is also an ongoing thing. We don't really, you know, how do we enforce it? Well, we have people on the lookout and there's a way to, you know, alert or raise an alarm if there's a problem. But maybe there's a combination of things like this where we can point to it in prominent places and, you know, we will have to think. Angelo, do you have an idea? Maybe? Or a question? No, a question. I don't know. I must admit, I was very curious. I guess this target mainly English. Is there in general, I'm not, I don't know, I'm really ignorant in this of these things I would like to understand. How does it work for other languages? I mean, if there is some, if a project has documentation in multiple languages, do, does the tool cover also other languages? Do we have recommendations also for other languages? How does it work? On the English, English is the only language that matters, actually. Maybe, yeah, you know, but that's also would be nothing. No, no, I'm just kidding. Obviously, that would not be very inclusive to start with, would it? This is an interesting question. Obviously, all the code and stuff, I think every project uses English as the primary language for documentation and all, but you're right that there are translations. I don't know what we should do. Maybe there is some room for addition there. I don't know. That's a good question. Any ideas from, I mean, Grace or Peter? The tool right now is English only because the recommended terminology is English only, but if the INI or the DCIVG comes up with, or pretty much anyone, if there's language recommendations in other languages that could also be plugged into the tool, I'm not 100% sure what the technological solution for that would be so that the languages don't cross each other. But the point is just to keep it short right now, it's English only, but I would be open to looking into other solutions as well. There's just these dependencies that we take care of first. For example, if we will support German or whatever other language, then the language recommendations have to be there first. And DCI is built on top of the language recommendations that come from the inclusive naming initiative, the INI. All right. So Peter, since you're talking and I don't see anybody raising their hands anymore, why don't you go ahead and give us the demo and then we can talk some more. Okay. Can you see my screen? Yes. Okay. So this is the DCI repository. This is the software. I plan on ending more documentation on here for now. It's documentation-wise is limited, but there is a GitHub action that encompasses this software so that it is as convenient as possible to add it to any hyper-legal project or pretty much any GitHub project that you would like to add it to. And the way to do that is to send a similar pull request that compared to the one that I added on cactus. And basically copy-paste this to have the recommended defaults. And this was an important part of the extra work that made it take much, much longer than I initially thought, which is that you can verbatim copy-paste this code snippet, put it into a workflow file in your GitHub repository. If you've used these YAML files before, then you already know exactly what's happening here. But I will say a couple of sentences basically. You're telling it to use the GitHub action that I published. You're telling it to clone your pull request, which is dynamically configured through environment variables. So that it clones it, that it fetches the specific git reference that you want to check for within the pull request. And then it loads the configuration for the phrases or the language recommendations directly from the INIs website.  It is all powered by this JSON document that is just a machine-readable version of the official recommendations of the INI and also the Hyperledger DCI work group. And so once you add this code snippet, then send the pull request to your own project repository, then you end up with this extra step in your continuous integration workflow, where the check runs next to other checks that you might have, like the build or tests. And then it either fails or it succeeds. If there were no linter errors, then obviously it succeeds. If there were, then you get all the stuff files like I just got them here in Cactus. You see which phrase triggered and which file and then you can either go and fix it if it's in your code or if it's in a dependency, then what you can do is say you can create a file called .dciignore, which is 100% equivalent syntax-wise to the .gidignore file. So it's also that way just so that it feels very, very familiar and it doesn't require learning anything extra if you had used a .gidignore file before, which I expect most people have done. And so then you can add entries like this and that will make some of the errors disappear. And obviously it's up to the project maintainers to supervise whether the things that are being ignored are dependencies or in actually the code. The tool itself is not police, that it just follows blindly what you're telling it to ignore. And then finally, if you go back here, if you look at your own pull request, then this is how it looks, you get an entry and then yes, right now it's failing, but that's the point. And this is it, basically you just add that code snippet one-on-one like I showed that I've also published as actual documentation. And then you can enable in the settings of your repository in the branch access, oops, yeah. So in the manage access for like my, my branches, yes, sorry, I just want to make sure I show the branch protection rules. So if you come here and then you say DCI lint, then you can add this to the list. And from this point on, no pull request will be mergeable unless the DCI lint check is also passing on top of the other checks in your list of desired continuous integration passes or checks. And I'm going to turn this off for now because I still have some work to do to actually fix it on cactus, but this is generally the flow to introduce it to your project. And then once it's introduced, it will be just there automatically for all the pull requests that you receive going forward. That's it. Thank you for listening. Well, thank you, Peter, for working us through this. Is there any questions or reactions, comments? All right, well, if not, I mean, is there anything else you wanted to add to grace or Peter on the proposal? No, I don't think so. If there's no, you know, feedback, at least on the recommendations, what we can do is go back and come up with a process proposal. So if it's a part of the project updates of code of conduct, we can work with the team. And that way you can be a little, I think that's the only open question from the group at this point. So we can do that. Yep. Sounds good. Sounds right. Thank you. All right. Thanks to both of you. And so everybody can think about it, obviously, in the coming weeks and before they come back. If you think of anything else, feel free to raise it. All right. So let's move on then to the next agenda item. We received a new request from the Firefly people. As I'm sure you all remember, they requested to create a project in incubation back in June. The project was not approved, but so they created a lab and they've been existing as a lab and being making quite a bit of progress as an open source project. And so they feel that now they are fulfilling the requirements that they expect us to have them live by to qualify as a project in incubation. So they're coming back and I think Nico is here with some slides to give us an update. And then we can discuss how people feel about the request. I asked you to say the decision officially back in June was we were postponing the, you know, considering moving them, accepting the request by two months. So the two months are actually passed. And so we're in time with regard to our previous decision. Thank you. I appreciate the context on there. And I think you summarized it well. I was going to lead in with that, but I think you summarized it really well. Can you all see my screen? Yes. Okay, great. So yeah, there's been some exciting things going on since June, kind of both in building the open source community around Firefly and also just in the project itself and some of the milestones that we've hit. And so that's kind of what I want to walk you through today. I will try to move through this quickly. I'll try to be sensitive of time to leave some room for discussion. And if everyone is favorable, hopefully a vote at the end, but we'll see. So I first want to talk about progress toward what the Firefly team views as a V1.0 release. So we've been working on a lot of stuff. We launched in June with on chain off chain support with Ethereum support. Since then we've added support for fabric as well. We're working on token support right now, as well as a unified API for custom on chain logic, whether that's with the token or whether that's with a purely custom smart contract. So we checked a lot of the major boxes of the major pieces of functionality that we would like to see in Firefly before we're ready to declare. This is a 1.0 release and it has the features that we want. And we've tested it thoroughly and it is ready to declare 1.0. So the next major thing is production hardening, putting it through lots of different testing, scaling, and that sort of thing. So that's kind of, this is just a brief snapshot of a high level of a roadmap. There is an issue on GitHub that tracks this at a much more granular level. You can go check out that issue if you're interested in seeing what the other things are that we're looking at there. So kind of zooming in on an important piece of this, I wanted to just briefly touch on sort of the road to custom on chain logic. Early on, there was an impression that Firefly, well, it has a smart contract that has one line in it. Well, so it's not really using blockchain for a whole lot. It's just using it as a timestamp service. And this is not true. And so I just kind of wanted to highlight this a little bit. The pieces that we have been building are sort of the stepping stones to completely custom on chain logic. And so there's two main ways that people can use custom smart contracts with Firefly. If you just want a token and you want to transfer and mint and burn tokens and work with digital assets that way, there's a really simple API that we've been working on that allows that and you can plug in your own custom token contract or something off the shelf, you know, ERC 1155 or 721 and just plug that right in and use it. That's in progress today. Right now through, so we originally launched with Ethereum and with ETHConnect and we've added FabConnect. You can go use either of those directly through their APIs and run your own custom smart contracts. The last piece to this after tokens is building a unified API that can talk to either ETHConnect or FabConnect through Firefly to provide a consistent API to be able to invoke smart contracts through either one. So there's lots of exciting stuff going on here. These are some really big pieces that we've been working on and it's exciting to see it coming together. So just wanted to kind of zoom in on that particular piece of the puzzle of the, as all the pieces click into place to bring Firefly's functionality. Also wanted to touch on just a couple of code-based activity things. So since June, we've added over 44,000 lines of code. A lot of that comes in FabConnect and Firefly Core. So that brings us up to about 119,000 lines of code total across all our repos. It's probably more than that now because I measured that several days ago. So two of the big new highlights obviously are FabConnect. It's an entirely new repo. FabConnect is really interesting because it has value as a standalone piece of software as a service and it also is an essential part of the Firefly system as well. So it allows for easy communication with the FabConnect work and that is also what enables support for using a FabConnect work in a Firefly network. The other entirely new repo is what we call Firefly tokens, ERC 1155, slightly wordy, but it's essentially a reference implementation of a token connector for Firefly. So if you haven't been a part of any of the community calls where we talked about the design and the work that's going on in tokens, essentially the goal is to be non-opinionated about which type of token contract will be used in Firefly. We want to be totally agnostic to that because people will have different needs. They'll want to plug in their own, whether it's an ERC or just a totally custom token contract. We want Firefly to be able to support all of those. We have this concept of a token connector which allows Firefly to adapt to a completely custom contract. This repo is sort of a reference implementation of, hey, if you wanted to use 1155, here's what that would look like, but you're welcome to take it, fork it, change it, or just create your own that implements the same very simple API contract. There's a swagger JSON that just needs to be implemented and you could build your own token connector in whatever language you would want to talk to whatever type of contract you'd want. All right, so I also want to touch on community activity. So one of the other topics that was discussed a lot when Firefly was brought forward last time is, hey, this hasn't been an open source project for very long, and is there a community? Will there be a community? We want to make sure that that's true. There's a lot of work to do here still, but I think we're off to a very good start, and so I just wanted to kind of touch on what's been going on in the community. So we've had weekly, and then we've switched to bi-weekly community calls. At the beginning of those, they were more of the maintainers telling people about Firefly to get people knowledgeable, to get people familiar with the architecture, how the code base was laid out, the project structure, and the goal really here has been getting people knowledgeable about Firefly and how it works behind the scenes so that they can contribute back to the code base at some point. That's the ultimate goal. As we have progressed, we have transitioned more to, there's still some of that, there's still architecture discussion that goes on. It's at this point, the last few community calls, it's been much more collaborative. It's been more of, hey, here's what we're thinking in terms of tokens, or fabric, or integration with other systems, and getting feedback from the community. The community's been great in voicing feedback like, hey, that feature would be awesome, or it would be great if it worked like this, or I was thinking of plugging in this, can I do that? So those conversations have been really fantastic. We've also heard from several different people or teams that are using Firefly, and they've been able to voice feedback and ask questions on the community calls, and it's been really fantastic to just dialogue with people that are excited about blockchain technology and using Firefly with it. We've also had several meetups in various regions, kind of as an introduction to Firefly, telling people what it is. We've done some live demos of showing how it works, and we've also done a, like a really hands-on, like, hey, let's actually run commands in the terminal and set up a dev environment to get new contributors set up to make sure their machines are ready, and they know how the project is structured, and all the tools that they need to be able to contribute back to Firefly. I'm also on rocket chat every day, talking with people about adding stuff to Firefly or how to do things in Firefly, and it's been really neat to see the, we have a steady stream of new people showing up and saying, hey, Firefly is really cool, and I want to build something on it, or Firefly is really cool, and I want this to be my first open-source contribution. So just really exciting to see people showing up and being interested in it and wanting to get plugged in. There's also been some great synergy with other Hyperledger initiatives. There have been some, through the development of FabConnect, some contributions have been made back to the Fabric Go SDK. We're in the middle of working on Basu support for the Firefly CLI. Firefly works with Basu today, but there's no out-of-the-box command on the CLI that you can run to just set up a local dev environment using Basu. That's being worked on. It's almost done. I've been collaborating with another member of the open-source community who has been working on that, and he's been doing a great job there. We've also been working really closely with the Giving Chain Project. That's a Hyperledger mentorship program, and it's been really fantastic working with them. They're doing some pretty cool stuff with NFTs and are excited to use the new and upcoming token functionality in Firefly. There's also continuing discussions or open interests from a variety of other Hyperledger projects, and we're really excited just to be able to work with the broader community. I think it's been a very positive experience so far. That's just a quick update on what has been going on. I also wanted to thank the TSE for, since we met in June, taking the time to clarify, hey, what are the things that we look at in terms of moving a project into incubation? I realize that it's not a checklist, although I may have laid it out like one. It's not a checklist, and I realize that, but we've been looking through the things that TSE considers. We, as a team, feel like Firefly is in a good state. We feel like we satisfy the considerations. I just wanted to briefly walk through that and talk through each of them. I went to the Markdown document. I copied and pasted kind of the main sentence in each bullet point here and then have commented on each one. Code should exist as open source. Yes, for Hyperledger Labs.  That's just automatic through being in the Hyperledger Labs or projects should have multiple maintainers. All of our repos have at least three maintainers. You can go to each repo and see the maintainers.md in each repo to see who the maintainers are for that one, who's allowed to push the merge button. They should all have at least three right now. And they're different based on individual expertise of that person and familiarity with that language or that code base. Moving on in the maintainer section of the considerations, projects should have demonstrable examples for POC or production uses publicly available. There's several POCs and they've been discussed on community calls. I linked to the recordings of those. If you're interested to hear about them, you can go watch the community calls. Giving Chain is one of them. They're building a, it may be more than a POC, but we've been working very closely with them. It's been a fantastic collaboration and it's been really neat to see somebody building a new app, especially using some of the cutting edge features in Firefly. There's also another financial POC that several individuals have discussed on community calls. It's not open source, so I don't have a ton of details about what it does, but it has been publicly discussed and documented on a community call. The projects should have backing of one or more organization or individuals. We have numerous maintainers, sorry, numerous developers who are not maintainers are actively contributing code. They're working on a couple of different things, including in the CLI and FAP Connect. We also have other companies that are planning to contribute to the project as well. They've opened up some issues on GitHub and kind of the main Firefly Repos and ETH Connect and Firefly Core with ideas and designs of things that they would like to see in there. We've talked with them and they will have some developer cycles in a month or two where they want to help get in the code and they want to build some of these things out and work with the Firefly team to design some of these major new functionalities. There's also a large healthcare network that is standardized on Firefly and they're going to be building a lot of things on there. I can't comment too much on that one in detail but there will be a press release early next year to talk more about that. And lastly, Consensus Health is building on Firefly in the healthcare context and they've talked about making contributions as well, looking to extend Firefly to add new functionality as well. There's individual members who may come from a company. They may just be one person. They see Firefly and they're like, hey, it'll be really cool if Firefly did this and they hop in, they add a little feature and that's great. There's also some longer term commitments from some big companies that are like, no, hey, we're not just trying this out as like an experiment. We're really building our business on this and we're in it for the long haul. So I feel good that we satisfy that one as well. All right, moving on. I'm trying to watch time here. Community contributors are familiar with open-source practices. I can't speak for everybody in the world that might want to contribute but I can speak for the maintainers and we are familiar with the open-source practices and for people who want to contribute that aren't, we've documented that. The Hyperledger has great documentation on it already so we've linked to some of that but there's good documentation in the repos of how to get involved, how to commit code, how to set up your machine in order to be able to contribute and that sort of stuff. So I feel like we checked the box really well there. It should be more than one sponsor and they should be from different organizations. You can refer back to the original project proposal. There are more than one sponsor and they are from different organizations. Okay, Legal was another area that did come up and Tracy reminded me of this one that there was early on a concern about licensing that was dealt with right away actually I think even before we moved into a Hyperledger lab and so if you're interested, I can link to the PR where that was addressed if you want to go look at how that was solved but there should be no licensing issues with Firefly. It is all Apache 2 licenseable. The license files are in the repos. Oh, I skipped the project names. Firefly is not a trademark name by Kaleido so I think we're okay on that one and yeah I think copyright-wise I don't think there's any other issues that I'm aware of or anybody else on the team is aware of. If there are concerns still please raise those. We'll take a look at them right away but I think we are good on this one and I think one other area that came up in discussion last time was overlap with existing projects and we'll elaborate on this one a little bit here. So first of all there's a consideration that Hyperledger doesn't want to take on another distributed ledger. I totally get that. Firefly is not another distributed ledger. It's a layer or several it comprises several layers above the distributed ledger itself so no concern there. New projects should bring something to the table that current projects did not. Firefly fills a real gap in the enterprise blockchain space. It has made sense to a lot of people like oh this makes sense. It fills a gap, it meets my needs and it helps me build an enterprise blockchain app really fast and that's the real goal here. Firefly presents an opportunity to build solutions that integrate and deploy across numerous Hyperledger technologies so it integrates with a lot of different things. It does not overlap with them though. There was a specific concern raised about potential overlap with the Fabric Smart client which came into labs right about the same time as Firefly and we can comment on that one directly here in just a second. We have a slide on that as well. Okay so that was the considerations. There were a couple and I alluded to some of these. There were a couple of action items from last time when we said hey let's table the vote on Firefly and come back to it in a couple months and I just wanted to I think some people have heard the conclusion on some of these but I don't know that the entire TSC has so I wanted to revisit some of those so everybody's on the same page and specifically overlap with Fabric Smart client. So the Firefly team had discussions with David with Angelo as a follow-up action from last time and the conclusion was that a Fabric Smart client and Firefly were different enough that convergence wasn't obvious. They're solving different similar but different problems in very different ways and it doesn't make sense to merge one into the other because they're fundamentally different things and so we all agreed that the proposed Fabric Connector as is makes the most sense for Firefly's support of Fabric being Fab Connect and we agreed to potentially revisit the Smart client in the future and possibly reuse certain features there possibly if there are pieces of that that we can reuse as a library or code added to the project definitely still open and looking for collaboration anywhere we can but the overall conclusion was hey these are different things and there's room for both of them because they're solving different problems in different ways. There was also a question about does Firefly use blockchain does it just use blockchain for time stamping? There was a lengthy discussion on this on the original project proposal I've linked to it here if you are interested in the back and forth on that discussion. I hope by now people have had a chance to look at Firefly more in detail maybe even had a chance to try it and see all of the things that it does and all the ways that it uses blockchain for more than just time stamping but the short answer is yes it does or the short answer is no it uses it for a lot more than just time stamping and especially with the work that we're doing for enabling completely custom smart contracts it really it really does complement the blockchain and it's built on a the foundation of blockchain it is the most important piece of the system but Firefly brings a lot more above that and around it to help build applications that use blockchain much faster so yeah that is it that's my last slide so I will pause there and very good I'm sure folks have questions I'm sure folks have things they want to discuss so I'll stop talking and let other people talk now and I just wanted to say thank you for letting me go through that well thank you for putting this report together it was very thorough and I appreciate that so I don't know if people have a lot of questions but let's find out does anybody have any questions for Nico or comments bobby hi I just wanted to say that for the mentorship program the giving chain I have three student mentees who are just learning coding in their colleges or well excuse me well on their way and the Firefly community has been so generous with their time and their resources walking these students and these mentees through the process so I have to say thank you so much it's been such a great experience the mentorship program has been such a great experience for them because of your support so thank you thank you bobby it's been great working with you all excellent thank you Bobby Angelo is next yeah first of all I found the presentation very interesting and I also think that was a very good decision to pause a little bit to not rush two months ago because we have seen now the improvement so we pushed and the improvement came I think there is also a better understanding of what Firefly does I personally still this is my personal belief that Firefly is still using the blockchain as a time-standing service and as soon as you say that you will allow customized the smart contract you are failing your mission of saying that Firefly is agnostic to to and you can swap essentially any blockchain because if I'm using fabric chain code I cannot swap immediately to a firm contract but that's I mean that's my just a personal consideration I don't like this concept of equalization about blockchains because it reduced the incentive on us on the blockchain developers of the blog or who develops the blockchain platforms to introduce new functionalities but about this I really appreciate the work that has been done in these two months thanks a lot I think it's been clarified many points have been clarified thank you I appreciate that all right thank you Angelou I thought there was another hand but I don't see it anymore Angelou you can lower your hand unless you want to add something is there any other questions or comments we had some great expression of support so or at least appreciation of what has been accomplished so date so I think that's great well if there is no comments I am going to propose we hold the vote Arun hey so quick quick question and thanks Nicole so for answering some of the questions that I sent over email that clarifies it so quick question right on the regarding concerns that I heard last time one thing was on the choice of words that were used in the proposal I guess we can figure it out going through the PR in the HIP and the second question that I had was on on so Hyperledger is going through a charter's change so do we it's just like when do we accept the project right so it's that question now should be accepted before that the charter changes come in or should we wait for it or right well how do you think the two are tied it's not obvious to me so if we go from the current charters it just feels like it should be a blockchain project but the new definition allows for projects other projects I see what you mean I mean we have you know we have infringed on the charter more than once so I you know unless anybody has a problem with this I would claim that we can just keep ignoring it and I as you just said we are actually in the process of updating the charter this has been put before the governing board there was a governing board actually earlier this week that I attended and I can tell you there are some it has not been approved yet because there were some minor discussions on on some wording which is completely unrelated to this question and that I expect will be solved pretty quickly and nobody objected to the general gist of the changes being made so I really think we can just go ahead and assume these changes will take place and I don't think that's a barrier but that's my opinion you can disagree yeah heart is next yeah I just wanted to agree with Arno and say that I don't think there's any reason to delay this over the charter and I think it like sort of fits even with the current charter enough that I wouldn't have any worry about the charter being a problem so I don't think the charters an issue here okay thank you heart so given that let me get back to what I was just about to say before which is I think we should just hold the vote to see if we can all agree on the moving firefly from labs to a project in incubation a second a second sorry all right we have a whole bunch of seconds so that's great uh I guess we have time to do a roll call okay give me a second to get the the list of people sure okay in the matter of before the TSC uh Angelo how do you vote I have a thing Arno yes Perun yes Bow Wow yes Bobby yes Dano yes David yes Grace yes heart yes Nathan yes Tracy yes Troy yes uh okay the yeses have it with one abstention so it's a three absent uh 10 yes and one abstain so the motion passes the motion congratulations guys welcome to the club thank you very much already in the club but so on behalf of the firefly team I just want to say thank you uh it's it's been a pleasure working with you all and working with the hyperledger community over the past few months and just really looking forward to continuing to work together and uh where we go next from here it's very exciting thank you so I think we I want to go back to one technical aspect though is what Arun says I think is accurate I don't think you guys have updated the heap which is in the form of a pull request and maybe before the pull request gets merged even though I mean you know we we have now agreed from a TSC point of view so there's no question as to the project being approved or not but maybe the text should be updated you might want to have a look and I notice there's some technical aspect like there's no DCO although you know for for this kind of PR I don't know that the DCO really matters but you know the the PR should be probably updated refreshed and made ready to be merged that sounds good I think some of the wording suggestions uh had been addressed but I will make sure we go back through it thoroughly and double check to make sure that we've we've looked at everything that's there all right very good thank you is there anything else anybody wants to add uh I just want to say congratulations to the Firefly team and uh Nico if you could reach out to me let's start the mechanical process of moving your repos over and let's make it happen let's make it happen I can't wait to find all the broken links yeah I know it's it's easier than it used to be but it's not easy yeah all right all right well again congratulations and thank you everyone for joining today and uh talk to you again next week goodbye thank you everyone bye bye thank you for the rest of the game bye


er than just a way of communicating and not just a disability tool. It's something very separate for us. I mean our hearing peers help us they can sign but in general society we feel it's very separate. If I could just add to what Carly said. We've heard this morning you heard earlier this morning you know that the deaf community doesn't accept this disability label and sees herself as a linguistic minority or community but you can actually there doesn't need to be an either or in there. I mean clearly we're not going to say we're not disabled we understand that we can't hear and that provides barriers in terms of how we access community access society but it's the secondary issue to us the bill recognizes that we put our language identity and culture first we reckon we accept our disability in society but it's important that it's that the what the bill does is puts the language first and that is right that recognizes our linguistic minority identity that's why a lot of evidence and submissions on Facebook from deaf people people who really recognize it that's important for us okay thank you I'm going to have to ask committee members and panellists to try and be brief if at all possible Colin I'd like to explore the effectiveness of the Gaelic language act and promoting Gaelic and are there any useful lessons learned that could be included in the BSL bill? Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. a'r gaelig agos anodd i'r cwrurwrst na canan syni ymwret i'ch. A am ysbyn nhw'n cwtio'ch gyfel mae'r chisun a'r sefharol me'n ceo hein a tro hein ichyn a'r gaelig tro hanasyn ha'r gaelig nasaig syni'ch. A'r gaelig sy'n sallu sy'n haf ffysig barwch gyfnio gyfel y canan eon, gyfel y gabrin, a'r leisio'n haf barwch aniau anon ala byd gyfel coesniog iawn, gyfel coesniog iawn, ymwych gartiau iawn, a'r gyfel coesniog iawn be oaf. A'r ysbyn sy'n gyfel nyrwt yn sy'n nas cwtio'ch. A chachrych byg yn iach cwtio'n gylio'r ychwr e'r sherfyswn a'r trafion e'n gaelig. Yn am y falso, rywdbech cws cwtio'n gachwr e'r hefyd ar hyngychwg, a asgyn blianol a gyswyd mor siwn, rywddon ha'r cwtio'r moch gyntechwl gwas i'n yw'r necan yn ardych ychydig. A chach am ysbyn sy'n gyddoch gyf byg barwch cwtio'n edd sherfyswn, yn ganddlu y gaelig yn gaelig y cwtio'n moch. A'r sy'n ffordd yn cwtio'n hewn prifychus. A gysam ysbyn sy'n edrych ond i'n eisiau hwyl, sy'n ddiw, a gysaswn i'n eisiau ysgrifty, ha'r sy'n gyfach cwtio'n moch. A'r sy'n ymwneud yn y rywddon y garstu'ch aniau a'r tych sy'n mynd o'ch hoi osniach, mynd o'ch hwlder a'r mynd o'ch anan gyma'r cwtio'r moch. A ffolwm e'n sy'n anan, ydaw'i gwneud e'ch gafel o'ch anan ac llwch chi'n sicu cwtio'ch a gysnw'r sy'n sherefyswn. Cymru hei, Jackie, neu'r sherefyswn ysgawr o'r sachet. A gysaswn gysor i'ch cwtio'r moch i'n hoi osniach sy'n hoi osniach. I'm sure you're all very familiar with the Martin Luther King Speech, we have a dream and i'll tell you now, like every other human being we have dreams in this regard. In terms of what professor Dunbar was talking about services and what's going on in television and so on and so forth, there is actually some British Sign Language provision in television and there are some aspects of cultural programming such as C-here is not the name of a television programme, not the report, by the way, there's two different C-heres. That's actually been going since 1981, one of the longest standing community programmes in the world in existence where other programmes come and go. This flagship of the BBC has been widely recognised as an essential service. So we pay the same television licence as everybody else, so it's quite right that we expect, perhaps not equity of service, It's only half an hour a week and only for 20 weeks a year, but it's vital because it's the cultural expression of deaf people. It allows us to identify with, you know, the cultural institutions and artefacts, celebrate our life, our language, our culture, not be sad, not be hidden in the corner and depressed as disabled people, to celebrate and enjoy our deaf heart or theatre or poems, all That's true that all those things we can contribute and add to the multicultural life in Britain. 1989, again to congratulate the BBC, they set up a programming to allow people to learn sign language you know so instead of looking at these courses you know we know that people in Britain struggle to learn French and German everywhere but within a company and book and a programme they had a very popular programme a ond mae'n meddwl ychydig. Mae'n meddwl, mae'n meddwl. Mae'n meddwl, mae'n meddwl, mae'n meddwl i'r language o'r dysgu. Mae'n meddwl yn ei ffrindio argynig, sylwg, ac yn ffrindio'r hollod, ac mae'n meddwl i'r bwysigio ar gyfer y programme, ac yn y pwysigio, yn y gwybodig ac mae'n meddwl i'r sŵl i ddechrau, ac mae'n meddwl i'r sŵl i'r ysgrifennu Brytystai Language Tutor i'r ffrindio'r pwysigio. yw'r llwyddiadau cyllidol. Yn ymgyrch, y cyllidol, Prinses Diana, erbyn y gwirionedd a'r ambasitor o'r Llangu Brytifol o'r Sgolwyr o'r Patrion o'r Sgolwyr. Mae'r Llangu Brytifol oherwydd mae'r profiwyr oherwydd mae'n gwirionedd o'r Llangu Brytifol oherwydd mae'n gwirionedd o'r Sgolwyr o'r Llangu Brytifol oherwydd mae'n gwirionedd o'r Sgolwyr. Mae'n ddod i'n cael ei wneud i'r cymaint o'r cymaint. Mae'n fawr o'r Llangu Brytifol oherwydd mae'n gwybod i'ch ddweud. Fe ddim yn gallu meddwl i'r llwiau, a pethau'n gwneud i heb gwael i bryd i ddweud. Mae'n ddod i'r cymaint i'ch ddweud. Mae'n ddiddordeb cyfnodol i'ch ddweud. Mae'n ddiddordeb cymaint i'ch ddweud. Mae'n ddiddordeb cymaint i'ch ddweud, mae'n ddiddordeb cymaint i'ch ddweud. Mae'n ddiddordeb cymaint i'ch ddweud. A'r hyn ffordd o'r hyn sy'n mynd i'r unrhyw ymgyngor ynglynig? Felly, o'r pethau hyn fydd yn gweithio'r glas ar y Llywodraeth, mae'r defnyddio ar y llwyddoedd yn bach, yn ffysg ymwyllus, ac mae'n gweithio ar y Llywodraeth yn wneud 5% mewn teuluoedd mewn mewn ychydig, mae'n gweithio'r cyhoedd, oedd yw 94 hwnnw, o'r hyn o'r hyn i'n wneud yn gweithio'n cael ei gynwedd yn rhai. Do you know when those programmes are broadcast? Two o'clock, three o'clock, four o'clock in the morning. Not highly visible. Not celebrating their language. Not putting it out there.  The education issue is the most important. Obviously, we'd love to see it. I have a dream of a BSL channel. Yeah, it might not be a reality, but I'd like to get up at seven o'clock in the morning, just like my hearing counterparts, and access what's going on in the world. Home affairs, foreign affairs, get my access directly through sign language. And then, you know, go to work at nine o'clock and I'd like my kids to be able to access children's programming or educational programming to have that suite of services available in a very cost-effective way. Allowing, you know, leisure programmes as well. Chat shows. Of course, we want that kind of equity. We have those kinds of needs. But the cultural life of deaf people is to be celebrated. It is a dream, but it's actually an achievable dream over time. I really am going to have to move on, because we've got enough questions to get through, and virtually no time at all, Gordon. I want to ask you about the content of BSL plans, similar to the questions that I asked to the two previous panels. So, what should be included in both national and authority plans in order that the plans can be effective? And should there be some detail on the content of plans included in the bill? To take the second question first. I think that the way the bill is constructed is entirely appropriate, because we don't want to prejudge what the climate might be, what resources might be available, what the priorities might be for successive governments.  So, I don't think there's any strong lobby asking for more detail of the plans to be put into the face of the bill. The key thing I think about the nature of the planning process is that it is a participatory process. And I was delighted to see the One Scotland work programme for the Scottish Government, referring quite clearly to Government paragraph 238. We want to draw more people more deeply into the way that decisions that matter to them are taken. We want Scotland to be an open and truly engaging country where the creativity and wisdom of all its people help to shape our future. That's exactly what the deaf community is asking you for. And so, a planning process that affords the BSL using community, the opportunity to make that kind of contribution, to engage in civic activism in exactly the kind of way that the programme is anticipated to achieve, is precisely what the community is talking about. And I think all of this puts some of the discussion earlier in the day in a very different light. As soon as we start talking about comparison between BSL and Gallic, we're a long, long way away from asking questions about disability and resources around disability. Nobody, for example, asks, can we afford to support Gallic because Macaton users will be disadvantaged? And I think that gives us a clear idea about being in different territory altogether as soon as we start seeing BSL users as a linguistic minority. And I would say then that we're also encouraged to recognise that we're not talking about deaf people's needs. Don't do this because deaf people need you to do it. Do it because Scotland wants it, because Scotland will be a better nation for it. Yn oes o'ch ambylwch gan bwchor, dyfu ni'n pobl o'ch fi'n siir yw'r wechgan, ac ysgol y flwch clach chi na caen yn.  A dyfu ni'n ddyliadodd y debyg Lentyniwch, yng Nghymru, yng Nghymru, a'i gympredigio'r yng Nghymru. Amser, ond sydd wedi gweld yng nghymru gyda ni o gwaith eich Lentyniwch, gyngor gyma chwtlo. Cwliwch cael yn bylad ffioch ynghylch yn y plaeniciwn naf'r synt y ffio ysg향 ast na plaeniciwn ech bwyny'n pobl o'ch. Ac ysgol ysgol ysgol ysgol i'n parbu'i eich o'ch gychbors na gallu網agur y chrywach o'r cwmho mwy bwysbyn descenedigol a bwysbyn y cwmho ac eisiau yn un o'r bwysbyn a'r cyllidau pobwy o'ch cyllidau pethau rhat. Ac mae'n gyrhau ar neud oedd o'r cyllidau, yn dweud mi gydag ar gyfer cyllidau cwmho ac mae'n gwyślio a'u cysg naill o'r cwmho ac mae, mae'n gwyml o'r cwmhio, oes i osio'r sôn fel mald, ac rydw i'n siwn i chi yn astur i ganach hien ond yn efoch, ac am ysbyn rydyn ni'n ddaf rhywm sy'n coerlau ac ysbyn rydyn ni'n glynyddu'r glynyddu'r grwm yma, ac am ysbyn rydyn ni'n gyfer sy'n arbarwch chi'n cwyddemol, ac rydyn ni'n cael ei un o etyr plan ac i chi'n naes yn hyna i chi ddaf. i'w ddylo'r ddweud o'r pethol, ac yn rhe fourth rwyf y dweud olufoedd. Fy enw i'w eu obfodraeth adon, gyda chi'n gallu dyfu y ffordd gyda'ch ddweud o'r diwyll gwirio roedd mewn ddweud o'r diwyll gwirio? As in addition, the idea of a national advisory group made up of ministers, local authorities, and other service providers and service users. Within the BSL community there's a firm view that the majority of that group should be made up of service users. It would be helpful if you have your views on the makeup of that, the desirability of such a group. Sassly wedi gŵi yma ydy'r ddiddordebeth yn ei gweld ddadebeth neu ddechrau canolegol i ddechrau byddai'r gynnig ond. Fe wnaethm i rwy'r gynlleniad oedd yialoedd o'r sgolenedig yn ei gweld i'r ddadebeth wedi'i gynnig i ddechrau gweld erioed. Rwy'n gael i ddadebeth o'r sgolenedig, a gallwn ei ddweud yn siaradau. is called out. It includes people from the regions that can express the different needs within the advisory group, and the leaders' ministers should be there. They should be someone who can take their work forward—there and can then cascade it down to different ministers from leadership departments. It should also have a strong understanding of BSL within their work—it should not be an afterthought. The minister should be taking the lead on that and then cascading it down to others. We do not want it to be a afterthought for that minister. We want that the minister the proactive in making sure that things actually happen as a result of the act. Feedback from the advisory board is really, really important in that whole process. Gareth Orrhani. Please welcome the fact that that expression of the regional diversity being explicitly set out. In terms of the ministerial responsibility I think one of the ideas from the previous panel was that we have a Minister for Languages at the moment including the Gallic Is this something that you would see comfortably sitting within that remit, or does it need to be more explicitly drawn out? First of all, I strongly support what Carly says about recognising the regional diversity of this country. Your question is should it be one single minister or should it be cross-department responsibility? I think you've already identified that if there isn't one single minister and you put it across all the departments, the level of expertise, knowledge and background between those departments is going to vary wildly, so that one department may well be addressing the needs very well and others very much not doing that case. So you can see the pitfalls and the potential failures in that system, whereas if you have one department or a minister ultimately accountable being supported with a clear remit by an advisory group with expertise, we would see that as the best way of working. I think the conversations that have been happening in the lead-up to the bill have been broadly very clear that the community is quite relaxed about the Scottish Government's position that there is a shared responsibility. That's the way it needs to be. Equally, as you say, it will be slightly absurd having recognised that there is a particular linguistic minority if the minister who is responsible for languages didn't have some kind of role or position in championing the language, if you like. The only other thing I would say about the advisory panel, and of course there will be a lot of conversation to be had if the bill is successful about the exact composition of that panel and so on, that I don't think needs to be decided today or in the immediate future. But I would just say that, of course, we will pick you up if I may on the terminology talking about deaf people being part of that panel as service users. Their contribution to that panel is a great deal broader than as service users. If we think of deaf people as service users only, then we are fixating on the access issues and losing the focus on promotion and the contribution that the community can make to society in Scotland. I took my reprimand in the story, which is intended. Well, it's not usual, but it's the kind of you to do. Can I just go back to Professor Dumbardo? Obviously, you are well aware of the process that was undertaken when we went through the Gallic Language Bill and then the introduction of the act. From that experience, can you give us some information and background knowledge about how the introduction of plans were introduced, how the development of those plans was a particularly onerous process on bodies to produce plans, and also in relation to what we've just discussed about ministerial responsibility, national advisory boards, etc. I just wondered if you could give us some background with your experience in the Gallic issue.  A chan mysmin dryn gwella'r cwytwmoch gybi dlesnes e'ch cwyt i chyn. Minister i'r Choryganoch t'w fy sydd ei wlddeis. A ha'r si'n cwytwmoch.  Ac ysbun jy'n y hagiwn sicrhwg yw'r polisi ac yw'r cweringrif polisi chi'n ystod i'ch gaelig. Yn gyma ffeolmol yw polisi chi'n ystod i cael yn ynhelu, cael yn ynsoeini a'r cael yn ynhelu. Ysbryd yn hama am ysbun jy'n gyfer sy'n er wybu cwtrmoch gan y gaelig gyro minister a asyriotus ac ar o glasnus a er o yn dwyloch sŵl y chwmal er gyroechyn. Y hwf yn ymplan eich angen yma ysbun jy'n gyfer y dyfi Saddiwchol, a bors dy galig er ffegwp yng Nghyddlw Llyw Llyw Llyw Buynion Popoloch, ac ysbryd yn cael ei gaelig i'r bwyny'n popoloch plan eich angen ychydig cael ei gaelig a'r borth torst coelau a'r tach dy fwyny'n popoloch ac ysbryd yn gyfer sy'n gyfer sy'n gyfwp ymloch. Leismanach by borth dy fwyny'n gwblwch coltoch rwy borth ffyn fyl y haesio, a mysmynd ryn gynghwm ffeim rhywltus mysmynd rydw i'ch cymryd heidiach gyda'r conwltryg y chwmal rwy bwyny'n popoloch ac cwyddiwch ychydig ac ysbryd coelau horsigau. A mysmynd ryn gyfel coel y borth negalau gyda'r ffyl mal a gwrs gwrs cwyddiwch yn y cechyfyn gywtio er eich cwyddiwch dy fwyny'n popoloch. A dy dyn nhw'n lwytych yw leisnyol ysahach gyda'n eich yr yfroses a'r saliwf yn tach gyhad e'r ffyn fwyny'n rydw i'l teisach cwyddiwch ffyn y borth. A mysmynd ryn gyfel sy'n coelau ac yscytdiwch ar y horsigau'r dwyny'n popoloch gyda'r cwyddiwch yn y fwyny'n lwytych gyda'r cechyfyn a chynydd gyda'r stoch gyda'r dwyliotus yn eich arferchgyn y leisnyol yw leisnyol yw leisnyol. Felly, dweud nodi ar y cyfloedd, mae'r oedd yn g climbolion o'i archfliadau gyda ar gyfer yr oedd y Pethau thrumfadfa ar gyfer y cyfloedd, mae'n gyflugio'r cyfloedd honno'u cyfloedd ar gyfer y cyfloedd o arnynnerau cyflugiau cyflugiau. Fe gydag gweithio, mae'n gwybliau i ddweud am y cyfle maes i gilynyddol o'r cyfle i gwybliau i'r cyffredinogi ac yn y cyfrifffredigol o plan hyfn Storellwyddon? What are the panel's views on that suggestion? The first term is? On the suggestion of statements? No, no, no, on collective consultation. As I've indicated, there is a spirit abroad in the country as a whole of consultation. I think that it was shown very clearly, and the country as a whole is very proud of the 85 percent turnout in the referendum last year. Ac ydw i'n meddwl y cynghoroedd am yr ysgrifennaf amser, ac rwy'n edrych yn ystod yn legunio'r gweithio. Mae'r g fuig yng Nghymru yn cael ei gael. Rydym ni'n golygu'r arfennill fod yn welo'r ddechrau llawd a gwybod'r risoedd yng nghylchau. Rwy'n edrych yng Nghymru yn cyflogion. Rwyf wedi byw'r ffordd o'r cyflogio'r sefydliadau o'r hoffi am gyllidol yn fawr oherwydd hwn. the way that attempts to do so have been unsuccessful on, where or another. So it is an incremental process. It is a process of continuous improvement and a process where the community is very keen to engage and participate. I think back perhaps the key thing to bear in mind is that contrary to some of the evidence that we heard earlier today, I invite you to review the evidence that is being submitted and ask you whether you find very muchetaan seth in there in which deaf people themselves describe the services available to them as exemplary. We heard earlier on that the exemplary services where out there. Do deaf people tell you that they are exemplary? I don't think so often. There is a process of continuous improvement that the community is looking for but it enters into that an emotional and a spirit of partnership. It might be true, Professor Turner, what you say about exemplary services, but my experience is that not many people will come to me about exemplary services as an MSP across the board, so that might not be the case that we get that end of the spectrum. Just one final question to the panel, and it's fairly straightforward to ask the others whether they believe there are advantages in moving to either 5 or a 7-year cycle for the national plan, as opposed to the one that's currently laid out in the Bill. Yn dryst y bwni'n popoloch a ffôl o'ch planau galwch ychydigelau, ffemioedd ym planau yw'r ychydig yw hulwc o'ch gwbliannau, ac os am ysbyn yn gyfer sy'n reiswn y gylio'r rhai unig gys ym planau i allyfwg, ac os nôr sy'n rhai unig gys ym planau ychydigiaeth, ac os am ysbyn yn gyfer y cwrtwmoch gyfieith unig y gylio'r rhawn.  Gys am ysbyn sy'n gynghwyl y cwrtwmoch, un i'r holl gan y bwyny'n poploch yn y grif yn y chwrwng rieff, ac ychydig am am ysbyn sy'n mafys yn ham roi atu, a dwyltoch lik yllai'r rydyn, a tytwm ffwrn ffwrst mae'r cymbieg. A gys am ysbyn sy'n gynghwyl gyda'r ysbyn yn cwrwst le tamal a ha'r roi atu. A gys am ysbyn sy'n gynghwyl coig blynynna, soch be cynnes coig blynynna, reiswn y gylio'r, fyrwch sy'n un i'r gylio'r gan y bwyny'n y grif yn y chwrwng rieff, ac ysbyn sy'n gynghwyl gynghwyl gynghwyl gynghwyl gynghwyl. I agree with Professor Dunbar, but also I think we have to get the view of deaf people for too long we've been sidelines, we've been marginalised and we haven't been involved in the process for so long for parliamentary issues, council issues and so on, so I think we need to give deaf people time to make that adjustment in their own mindset a cultural change if you like, an attitudinal change, so maybe extending that time would be beneficial. To do it in phases, a phasied approach rather than rushing things through because that might lead to the whole process breaking down, so I would recommend a more measured approach for sure. I'd just like to re-emphasise what Khali said, it's a fair point to be made. Is it five or seven years and an appropriate time frame, it's difficult to say at this point in time. I think the Gaelic experience is instructive and informative. Wrth gwrs, ond mae'n gweithio eu bod yn 5 yng Nghymru, mae'n gweithio'r cyfnodol yn gweithio. Felly yn gyfnodol yn ddyfodol y cyfnodol. Ond yn fwy o bryd, mae yna'n rhedeg i gael i amser o'r cyfnodol sydd ymwneud. Mae'n rhedeg i gael i'r wyf, ond mae'n gweithio'r cyfnodol yn fwy o'r cyfnodol. Mae'n fwy o'r cyfnodol yn ddifol. Mae'n gweithio'r cyfnodol yn y fwy o'r cyfeirio'n gyda'r cyfnodol. Ie, mae'n amser i gael unrhyw gyrfaenidol, mae'n gael unrhyw gyrfaenidol yn ei wneud. Mae'n angen i gwneud y pethau. Rwy'n fath o'r idea chi, oedd yn ffaisiol y proses yw'n rhan fydd yn ymddangos. Felly mae'n angen i gael unrhyw gyrfaenidol i gael unrhyw gyrfaenidol, yn eu bod yn ymddangos, yw'n gwneud i ddweud i ddweud yn y pethau o gyllidebeth o'r unrhyw. It's about what's workable. We're prepared, as the difficulty, to work with you, and to be a lot more complex and not see it as a black and white issue, a lot more grey in there that's to be discussed. Thank you, the final, very much for coming along. I was going to say this morning, but it's now this afternoon. Thank you very much for your time and for your evidence in this morning. We've obviously got a lot of things to consider when we're looking at the bill. For everyone's information, our next consideration of the BSL bill will be on 17 March, when we will take evidence from the Scottish Government and from the member in charge of the bill, Mark Griffin. That's 17 March for the next evidence session on the BSL bill. I will close the meeting.


One of the most commonly asked questions that I get is why do I use Emacs? People want to know what's the number one reason that I choose Emacs over something like Vim? Well, I think there's a lot of advantages to Emacs, but if I had to narrow it down to the number one reason why I choose Emacs, it's for the built-in games. So what games are available inside Emacs? Well, let me switch over to my browser and if I open up EmacsWiki.org and they have a category called games on the EmacsWiki and you can see they list a whole bunch of built-in games and Amusements so most of these programs should automatically be installed by default in Emacs and then you have a section of add-on games So these are third-party games that people have created that you can install and I may install one or two of the add-on games But I'm definitely gonna check out some of the built-in games So let me go ahead and switch over to my desktop and let me go ahead and open up Doom Emacs. Doom Emacs is the distribution of Emacs that I use and I'm gonna do alt-x meta-x on the keyboard and the command I'm gonna run is Tetris because Tetris is one of the games that is installed by default and the evil key bindings do work in Tetris So H and L move left and right if I do K, which should be up, but you can't move up in Tetris So that actually just rotates the pieces J of course moves down so just use HJKL the Vim navigation keys and Honestly Tetris works perfect in Emacs like I can waste Seriously, I can waste hours playing Tetris inside Emacs and I'm actually pretty good at Tetris like I'm not a terrible Tetris player I'm not saying I'm like the Tetris World Champ but you know I can beat most people like if You wanted to put some money on a Tetris game. You'd probably lose it if you were playing against me The next built-in game I want to show you if I do meta-x and type the word Pong and This does not use evil key bindings What you have to do is do meta-x and it will pause the game when you do meta-x and type the command evil dash mode What this does is it toggles evil mode on and off it's on right now if I toggle evil mode off now the arrow keys Will actually move so now let me do Pong Dash resume P would have done that so now You've got left and right moves one set of paddles and up and down Moves the other set so you can actually play Pong against yourself. I'm not very good at Pong Well, I'm pretty good at Tetris. You can see I'm really really bad at Pong and part of the problem Is it's kind of weird using the arrow keys, you know two arrow keys for one paddle and two arrow keys for the other I'm sure I could map that to something else if I wanted to wow that was a good save there Let's see if I can get up here and save that one. Yeah, not bad. So that is Ponged The next game that I want to briefly check out if I do meta-x and type bubbles This is bubbles and let's make sure that we turn off evil mode here as well inside bubbles If I navigate around you see the orange circles are actually bubbles And I can get rid of them and I can get rid of all the bubbles that are touching the one I'm currently on I think if I just hit space Yeah, and the trick here. I haven't played bubbles too much But I think the trick is to try to get rid of the bubbles in as few moves as possible. So Yeah, I'm not sure. I Say the orange was the bubbles. Maybe the purple was the bubbles because I can get rid of purple Just as easy as I can get rid of Yeah, I'm gonna have to read the documentation on bubbles Another cool little fun thing you can do you can do meta-x and type the word doctor and what is doctor think of doctor as a Psychiatrist so if I do space TB here inside do me max to toggle on big font mode so you guys can read what's going on He says I am the psychotherapist. Please describe your problems each time you're finished talking type return twice So please describe my problems. I am a Linux user is my problem and return twice. What makes you believe you are a Linux user? I use arch by the way Maybe your life has something to do with this You have a point Is it because of your plans that you say I have a point Yes, I See well, are you sure that this is so I don't know dude. I Am just really confused right now I'm considering moving to gen 2 Do you really think you're considering moving to gen 2? No I'm just venting Perhaps the people you hang around with have something to do with this Another cool little animation thing that's built into do me max at least is if I do meta x Animate dash birthday dash present and let's animate a birthday greeting for someone Let's animate a birthday present for DT and it's gonna say happy birthday DT You are my sunshine my only sunshine. I'm awful said that you've moved away Let's talk together and love more deeply.  It's not my birthday actually had a birthday last week though I turned 44 last week Another cool thing you can do. Let me open up a document So I'm gonna just open up my doom config.org here What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go to a section here So I'm gonna select this region of text if I do meta x and I type the word stud lofi dash region What is stud lofi? Well, let's see what it does It's dead lofies the text meaning we get this random uppercase lowercase Ridiculousness going on here So that is a great way to take a especially a rather large document that's actually formatted correctly and just really make it Almost unreadable. Let me you to undo that another neat little thing you can do if you do meta x and you type zone Let's see what happens the screen just when it's idle when I'm not doing anything what happens It's kind of changing on its own. It's doing all kinds of weird stuff as long as this buffer is kind of idle So that's a really neat effect if you're gonna step away from the keyboard for a little bit But you're gonna have this document open on the screen. It's kind of like a almost like a screensaver kind of effect It's like the matrix. That's like see matrix almost inside doom emacs So let's go ahead and try out one of the third-party add-on games if I go back to the emacs wiki One of the ones that immediately caught my eye because I was such a big fan of the old pekman arcade games There's one called pek max So what I'm gonna do is let me go ahead and install this inside doom emacs I've already got it installed But let me show you guys how I installed it if I do space period here to get into the file manager Let me go to packages dot e l And then my packages dot e l file for doom emacs. You can see I added package Exclamation pek max to the packages dot e l and then once you add that and you do a colon w to write it and do space Hrr inside doom emacs to reload your new doom emacs config It should install the pek max package for you and it should immediately be available for you to play So let me do meta x and do pek max Start pek max start now before we do that Let's turn off evil mode because I know pekman is not going to use the evil keybundings So I turned evil mode off first and then let's do pek max dash start And now it's going to use the arrow keys and let me go ahead and move around This pekman looks kind of funny. I wonder if it's because I toggled on big font mode So let me turn on evil mode one more time. Let me do space tb. Let's do Turn off evil mode and now let me do pekman start and then we fixed our font problems and now let me go ahead Yeah, this the game is running much smoothly now that I can actually see what I'm doing So the very first screen here, it's kind of like the beginner just so you guys can See what's going on here So it's just the four arrow keys and then the next one I should have a villain that I yeah now I've actually got to I've got to move around a little bit. I'm gonna wait and get the Well, I was gonna wait to get the blinking That he got me because I was trying to explain. Okay. Okay ghost. I got you. I got you ghost There you go. Okay. Now you're running. Well, I guess I didn't need to eat the ghost to To finish that well this and this ghost is smart like everywhere I go So that's pek max and of course, there's dozens of other games. You could actually install inside emacs I noticed they've got a 2048 game There's a tron game. There's a net hack game There's all kinds of stuff you can do inside emacs and this to be honest I was kind of joking when I sit the built-in games for the biggest reason I use emacs Obviously, that's not the case, but I've got to admit the built-in games are kind of a plus I mean emacs is kind of like its own environment unto itself It's almost like it's its own operating system and what's one of the most fundamental core pieces of an operating system It's the games, of course. Now before I go. I need to thank a few special people I need to thank the producers of the show Devon Gabe James Matt Michael Mitchell Paul Scott West Akami Allen Linux Ninja Chuck commander angry Kurt Diocai David Dylan Gregory Heiko Casca Lee Maxim Mike nitrix Erion Alexander peace arch and fedora polytech raver Rip profit Steven and Willie these guys. They're my highest tiered patrons over on patreon without these guys this episode about Emacs games it would not have been possible the shows brought to you by each and every one of these ladies and gentlemen as well All these names you're seeing on the screen right now These are all my supporters over on patreon because I don't have any corporate sponsors I mean what kind of corporate sponsor would sponsor a video about games inside emacs They wouldn't do it right you guys sponsored this stuff and you'd be like my work and want to help support me Please subscribe to distro to over on patreon. All right guys. Peace. I Wonder if super tux is available in emacs